# BH How Can you Believe Your WW?



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

BH, the affair is over. Your WW is not divorcing you.

You ask her about the affair.

WW tells you. Claims to of told you all. Claims not to remember things.

As a BH how do you believe what your WW says?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Did your ww trickle truth? If yes, has it stopped? 

Did she complete a timeline for you? 

Would she take a polygraph? 

I wish I had answers based on positive personal experience but I do not. These are just some of my thoughts. 

I guess there would always be some degree of uncertainty that you would have to accept.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

It's probably naive to think you ever know the whole story if your WS TT'd. 

I think it matters more in cases where there was more than one AP or you're dealing with a chain of events. 

For example, if your WW admits to having a 2 year affair, then you probably don't need to know more. 

If she met a guy however, and claims it was sex once, even though they'd been together 5 times, that's a different story. 

Or if it's claimed there's 3 guys each with a ONS, believing there aren't possibly 4 or 5 is doubtful. 

Almost by default cheaters will reveal the less than full truth, or minimize/obscure events so as to not make it sound as bad as it actually is. 

"we just kissed". "It was only oral". "We met once and had sex ." etc. 

"I don't remember" is the catch all phrase straight from page 8 of the cheater handbook. 

I don't think it's reasonable to ask what WS had for lunch with their AP, or what color the curtains were in the hotel room. 

But they should, like any reasonable person remember when they first kissed, had sex, what the guy looked like. How good or bad the AP was in bed. How often on an average week they'd meet up for sex etc. 

You know, even before DDay #1, I can mostly remember what I did with FWW. For example going for walks, watching movies things like that. Not everything, but A LOT. 

I don't see how if I were cheating I'd forget most of it. When you're asking a reasonable question they should reasonably remember and they claim "I don't remember" they probably just don't want to say. 

Or somehow, there's an epidemic of selective amnesia.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

I have been trickled trothed.

I have got the I do not remembers.

I have caught her changing her story.

I want the whole story.

If she told everything today. Would I be able to believe what she was to say?

Enough about me. I know what I have gone through. The Purpose of this thread is to see what other BH's themselves have gone through dealing with being able to believe what their WW have said and how much I do not remembers they were told.

Also did a WW not remember only to remember later on?


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

My WS, now EX wife... I only talk to her when ABSOLUTELY necessary... We ain't friends.

I don't know what to believe from her. I never got the whole truth and if I did, I would never know if it was the whole truth. No way to know so I just don't care.

I think when I started finding who I was and sticking to my principals of who I wanted to be, I could care less about someone who would just cheat on the person they promised to love and adore forever. I don't care what she has to say honestly. After lying to me for so long, I don't think she was going to sit down, watch and episode of Sesame Street and find out that lying is wrong. This episode is brought to you by the Letter A, and the color Scarlet.

When you get to a point where you don't care anymore, I think you can move on easier.

The trickle truth. That is a killer! If you are getting trickle truth during R. Kick her out!


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

theroad said:


> I have been trickled trothed.
> 
> I have got the I do not remembers.
> 
> ...


I divorce my WW. My marriage was piss poor even without the cheating. We were already in the process of divorce when I had her cheating confirmed, she wanted to try and reconcile at one point which was a joke, and she knew it and finally admitted it when I called her out on it.

For me, cheating is a deal breaker because the amount of time needed to build that trust and the amount of work the WW would need to do to help get me past it would be too long. I'd give up prior to getting to that point, even if I POSSIBLY could (which I don't think I could).

I need to be able to trust my spouse explicitly. No ifs ands or buts. If I can't trust her 100%, I can't be married to her.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> My WS, now EX wife... I only talk to her when ABSOLUTELY necessary... We ain't friends.
> 
> I don't know what to believe from her. I never got the whole truth and if I did, I would never know if it was the whole truth. No way to know so I just don't care.
> 
> ...


For me my story started 30 plus years ago. No divorcing now. Not kicking no one out now.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

theroad said:


> For me my story started 30 plus years ago. No divorcing now. Not kicking no one out now.


I'm not saying you're wrong because let's face it, each of us has our own lives to live and we live them differently so I'd never pass judgement, only look at your life through my perceptions (which really has no bearing on you anyway LOL). 

I'm curious why, because for me, I can't see a point where age would be a determining factor for me accepting or not.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Lie Detector Test


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

You don't. 



The end.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Almost 2 years into R, things are good and getting better all the time. My partner sat me down and confessed her EA went PA about 4 days after it happened. I was away on business, and when I got back, she asked me to sit down with her and confessed. She never TTd, never changed her story, never hid anything, and after the fog lifted, ferociously pursued helping me heal and helping us have a successful R. There are fragments of the timeline she sometimes has a hard time remembering, but she was also suffering from major depression and was heavily medicated at the time. I do not have a hard time believing her at all. Her commitment to transparency, dedication to being open and honest at all times, and desire for a successful happy life with me, leaves very little room for doubt. 

In general terms, if the fWS is doing everything by the book, has owned the A 100%, doesnt blameshift, become defensive, nostalgic about the A or the AP, helps you through the rough patches, asks you for help through her rough patches, and is making sure that there are no red flags, she has then earned the right for you to trust or believe her when she says she doesn't remember. If the present and future look like they are shaping up to be what you want them to be, its ok to let go of the past.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

theroad said:


> For me my story started 30 plus years ago. No divorcing now. Not kicking no one out now.



Everyone has their choices. I just don't think I could ever trust my EX ever again if I were in that situation. I think it was her no remorse stance.

Everyone's life is different. You make your choices, prepare for the consequences and hope for the best.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Well, learn to trust your gut again. That does require some emotional distancing so you can see things a lot clearer than when you are all amped up and riding a rollercoaster. Does it feel like you got everything? If not, keep digging... While unpleasant for a remorseful wayward, they will continue to go through everything they remember as many times as it takes. 

Something to note; If it feels like she’s defensive or utilizing tactics to change subjects, skirt around the fringes, or deflect the questions... there’s more.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

theroad said:


> BH, the affair is over. Your WW is not divorcing you.
> 
> You ask her about the affair.
> 
> ...


My wife can remember what she ate 30 years ago on a Sunday in June, but couldn't remember much about her affair...

You'll know what to believe, when they start telling you stuff like 'took the day out of work to spend with him x # of times.. used to stop at his apartment on the way to work.. took showers together.. used my sisters apartment on sundays when i was supposed to be feeding the cat and shopping.. we bought each other gifts.. yes I told him I loved him... did it in work.. You might even get to find out his penis is larger than yours, god forbid they lie about that one.. 

I hope your list doesn't suck as bad as mine did..

One other thing to note.. no hesitation in answering questions. Quick thorough answers please... no hemming and hawing..


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

russell28 said:


> My wife can remember what she ate 30 years ago on a Sunday in June, but couldn't remember much about her affair...
> 
> You'll know what to believe, when they start telling you stuff like 'took the day out of work to spend with him x # of times.. used to stop at his apartment on the way to work.. took showers together.. used my sisters apartment on sundays when i was supposed to be feeding the cat and shopping.. we bought each other gifts.. yes I told him I loved him... did it in work.. *You might even get to find out his penis is larger than yours, god forbid they lie about that one..*
> 
> ...


Wow...did you ask or did she offer that detail? :scratchhead:


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Paladin said:


> Almost 2 years into R, things are good and getting better all the time. My partner sat me down and confessed her EA went PA about 4 days after it happened. I was away on business, and when I got back, she asked me to sit down with her and confessed. She never TTd, never changed her story, never hid anything, and after the fog lifted, ferociously pursued helping me heal and helping us have a successful R. There are fragments of the timeline she sometimes has a hard time remembering, but she was also suffering from major depression and was heavily medicated at the time. I do not have a hard time believing her at all. Her commitment to transparency, dedication to being open and honest at all times, and desire for a successful happy life with me, leaves very little room for doubt.
> 
> In general terms, if the fWS is doing everything by the book, has owned the A 100%, doesnt blameshift, become defensive, nostalgic about the A or the AP, helps you through the rough patches, asks you for help through her rough patches, and is making sure that there are no red flags, she has then earned the right for you to trust or believe her when she says she doesn't remember. If the present and future look like they are shaping up to be what you want them to be, its ok to let go of the past.


Great post. My wife has been a good wife. Though she has told me very little about the affair. I still do not know the name of the OM. To me her keeping secrets takes away from what she has done for me all these years.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Racer said:


> Well, learn to trust your gut again. That does require some emotional distancing so you can see things a lot clearer than when you are all amped up and riding a rollercoaster. Does it feel like you got everything? If not, keep digging... While unpleasant for a remorseful wayward, they will continue to go through everything they remember as many times as it takes.
> 
> Something to note; If it feels like she’s defensive or utilizing tactics to change subjects, skirt around the fringes, or deflect the questions... there’s more.


I know there is more. Not knowing all the missing info bothers me all the time.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

theRoad,

Why in the h**l won't she give you the name of the POS who intruded into your M?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

There’s the issue you must really address. You won’t know unless she talks. Sorry... that’s the cold hard truth of it. Snoop, pry, use recovery stuff, vars, etc. That will get you potentially some information to paint a blurry picture.... but not the whole of it. Sometimes you can leverage that into a confession, other times you can’t.

Even though it isn’t the path I chose, I recommend divorcing someone who can watch you suffer like that and drive yourself mad, knowing they hold the key to end that part of the suffering, and still choose not to. That is beyond selfish. Even if she spills later, like mine did, you will never forget that period. In mine, she did it for an extended period of a year and a half. The lies and self-preservation define her much more than her adultery ever did... and in the meantime, reinforced my armor and built massive walls emotionally to cope. Her and I is what remains... no longer “us”, nor will that be possible anymore. I will never be able to seriously believe she is watching out for me.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Everyone calm down. This happened long before the internet. Knowing how to handle things now does not help in that I can not turn back the clock and redo dday over.

All wife now says is she does not remember. Can not prove what does or does not remember from that time.

Approaching time to retire not start a whole new life. Been a good wife all these years since. However not knowing still haunts me.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

There are no emails to recover, texting, no VAR's to use. These things did not exist then


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Even with remorse, it's hard to R. My W cheated on me two weeks after taking my ring, which to me ramps it up to a whole 'nother level. There are many levels, though. I've been cheated on before, but this one, wow. 

She has remorse, but she also said she was never going to tell me about fvcking OM. She didn't want to hurt me. No, we all know that's trickle truthing at best, cake eating at worst. And I told her that (being, by then, a TAM veteran). The only reason I know as much as I do is because I probably broke some law and hijacked their affair email account. Think the OM will try to press charges? Ha ha no, I doubt it. 

God sometimes I'm just a bitter ass.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> theRoad,
> 
> Why in the h**l won't she give you the name of the POS who intruded into your M?


theroad.. 

How can you believe your WW when she won't even tell you who the person is ? 

If anything common sense tells me they fvcked.. I know they just didn't meet up to hold hands in the park.. 

Just like my Ex did with me when we were dating. I would imagine she did the same things with this other man.. 

So I don't need to know they fvcked.. 

But I definitely want to know who this man is.. What if I see this guy every day ? This guy is laughing at me every fvcking day he see's me. How long before he confides in a friend about him fvcking my wife and me not knowing it was him.. 

I'm a firm believer now, knowing what I know today and catching the repeated beating I did.. Unless your spouse comes totally clean and remorseful, you're nothing but plan B again, until another Plan A comes along.. 

Not only can you not believe anything the WW says, but have to expect to be cheated on again.. There is no doubt in my mind about it..

My friend had an affair 7 years ago and till this day he is transparent about everything.. He doesn't do anything that would make his wife wonder or question.. He thinks about his actions or what it might look to his wife and tells her before hand so she doesn't go nuts wondering..


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Yep.. I know that feeling too. Some of my wife’s affairs were old. Too old to piece stuff together by ‘normal’ means meaning the outside data, friendships, etc. are all long gone. Just scraps of things like an old photo with her arm around this guy. Without her confession, I just have gut feelings. She hasn’t confessed so I’m still dark there. All I can do is remember things as I perceived them back then and add new discoveries about her to the mix. And her versions just don’t add up. 

All you can really do is make up your mind what the most likely situation is. That becomes your reality of what happened. Then you see if you can recover with whatever it is you decide must be true. And that’s when I started focusing and honing down on why my wife lies and the circumstances surrounding it. There’s a book “Living with the Liar and the way to truthful relationship” (or something like that). It helped me to at least understand liars and unlock some things about her.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Racer said:


> There’s the issue you must really address. You won’t know unless she talks. Sorry... that’s the cold hard truth of it. Snoop, pry, use recovery stuff, vars, etc. That will get you potentially some information to paint a blurry picture.... but not the whole of it. Sometimes you can leverage that into a confession, other times you can’t.
> 
> Even though it isn’t the path I chose, I recommend divorcing someone who can watch you suffer like that and drive yourself mad, knowing they hold the key to end that part of the suffering, and still choose not to. That is beyond selfish. Even if she spills later, like mine did, you will never forget that period. In mine, she did it for an extended period of a year and a half. The lies and self-preservation define her much more than her adultery ever did... and in the meantime, reinforced my armor and built massive walls emotionally to cope. Her and I is what remains... no longer “us”, nor will that be possible anymore. I will never be able to seriously believe she is watching out for me.


Carbon Copy - thanks Racer. It is so important to see the reality from a different perspective. My WS's studiously sticks to her path - I just can't believe her and she knows it and yet she just carries on. Surely she must know this world of inaction is fatal. Meantime I'm doing it all for me - and the children :smthumbup:


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I've never quite understood the point of having to know "all the details". What's important, it seems to me at least if you're planning on staying together, that cheating will never happen again. There are no guarantees of that either. 
At any rate, unless the whole episode was taped, its virtually impossible to be positive you have all the details. Its another one of those things in life that will haunt you for a long time.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

ThePheonix said:


> I've never quite understood the point of having to know "all the details". What's important, it seems to me at least if you're planning on staying together, that cheating will never happen again. There are no guarantees of that either.
> At any rate, unless the whole episode was taped, its virtually impossible to be positive you have all the details. Its another one of those things in life that will haunt you for a long time.


Also depends on definition of "all". I didn't really want to know the particulars of each sex scene. 

Where it plays a role is in her "why". If the reasons for the why go back far enough, it would precede events that she's used as major factors. That has already happened once during my R due to Trickle Truth and omitting certain things from her childhood and far past that impacted her perceptions (raped). 

So you need information because you can't read their minds for 'why' they did it and you already know they will lie. Most initial 'why' answers are excuses and/or justifications they put together after they did it to ease their own guilt... 

So you dig and dig and dig until you get to that point where she and you can see how she started down that path and where all those little turns and choices led her to adultery. By the time they screw someone, they were already mentally ready and had been preparing. You need to figure out how they let themselves get there and be confident they won't start making those same choices again. 

It isn't about the choice they made just before they let a dude pull their panties down. It's about how they found themselves with a dude where that was even a possibility that she'd say 'yes' instead of screaming. 

So with mine, part of the why was her feeling like I was manipulating and controlling her. So she rebelled. We had to figure out why she allowed herself to think that. All those little mental steps and leaps she made until she convinced herself she was just a puppet in the marriage and captive. 

Then she had to work on how to control her perceptions and direct them so they won't go back to twisting her reality. She actually ask me things now instead of believing 'she knows' what I'm thinking and my intentions. (which were never good in her mind) 

You just can't make that kind of progress without a willingness to share information so you can fill in and make some corrections.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I think if a WW refuses to even give the name of her OM, which she has to remember unless it was some random drunken ONS with a POS she never saw again, then she is seriously lacking in the remorse and respect departments in relation to her BH.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> theroad..
> 
> If anything common sense tells me they fvcked.. I know they just didn't meet up to hold hands in the park..


Common sense?

Wife admitted to doing it once. And I know when they admit to once it was more. Remember this happened before there was the internet to smartened me up.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I've never quite understood the point of having to know "all the details". What's important, it seems to me at least if you're planning on staying together, that cheating will never happen again. There are no guarantees of that either.
> At any rate, unless the whole episode was taped, its virtually impossible to be positive you have all the details. Its another one of those things in life that will haunt you for a long time.


I do not have 1% of the details. Hence my frustration.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Racer said:


> So with mine, part of the why was her feeling like I was manipulating and controlling her. So she rebelled.


My take is the old, "manipulating and controlling" is a generalization and is often bull. Women that cheat have a low romantic interest in their husbands. It's rare to find a cheating wife that is crazy in love with their husbands.
The cause of this loss of interest varies but can generally be traced to nice guy, docile, always giving in, always saying yes, type behavior.
Show me a woman married to a doormat and I'll show you a woman who is, or probably will, cheat.


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

I was "trickle truthed" but being isolated with no support system (heavens I wish I had this site back then) I would have realized what was happening. After about 8 months of "just kissed" I was only getting insignificant info. 9 years later I have to accept that I will never know the full truth. 

My wife is no longer that person. She is a great wife, friend, and mother. We have no secrets now but that. If I were to grill her about it now it would crush her and it would be unfair to all she is now. 

Time heals and when enough love has been restored the need to know everything is diminished. Every situation is different. But like most on here it still burns me up occasionally
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stalin12 (Jul 26, 2013)

after a wayward cheats how could you ever trust them


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I know you blame your partner. Do you feel any blame for the affair? Don't answer. Just think hard. You will need to go back to what happened prior to the affair. You will need to look at yourself and your wife. You will need to accept what your part was in your marriages dysfunction and then consider what changes you have made within yourself to rectify those situations.
> 
> 
> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-fitness/201203/infidelity-forgiveness
> ...


I do not blame my wife for what she did.

I am not happy that she kept me in the dark after the fact.

I am not mad at what she did. Hard to make that sound believable when I know less then 1% of what she did with the OM.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I know you blame your partner. Do you feel any blame for the affair? Don't answer. Just think hard. You will need to go back to what happened prior to the affair. You will need to look at yourself and your wife. You will need to accept what your part was in your marriages dysfunction and then consider what changes you have made within yourself to rectify those situations.


Short of some sort of abuse I have to say there is no excuse for an affair. If your not happy with something in the home then its your responsibility as a spouse to address this with your husband or wife.. I mean honestly if the person you love and supposably loves you back can't tell you, then who can ? 

Use my issue.. My wife said I was on the computer too much. 

Okay.. I admit it..

But she never once said get off that computer.. 
Can we talk about this computer thing.. 
Get off that computer or I am going to leave.. 
Break the computer and scream at me.. 

Nope.. Never, not a single complaint.. 

But when I caught her having the affair she brought it up in counseling.. 
Guess what, I got right the fvck off. Granted I'm on here now, but nothing compared to what I was used to doing... No gaming that is for sure.. She brought it up day one and I was off.. Sept 28, 2012.

Even till this day she brings it up in anger.. Before I didn't have the answers and blamed myself. Today I am much smarter and understand much more from reading TAM and a bunch of other publications along with therapy.. 

The last time she brought it up, I reminded my ex of the other 3 attempted affairs she had and the work it took for me on forgiving her for and finding love for her even thought I wanted to choke the crap out of her and find someone else. 

I used walkonmars line.. I said Mother Theresa when you're done pointing fingers can you point one your way please and take some blame for failing to be a wife and faithful woman to your husband and kids.. She never responded back.. I wonder why ?


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

What happened, happened 30+ years ago.

No point in rehashing what took place or pointing fingers.

However being kept in the dark is a another story. Being trickled truth is always wrong.

This is why I have not been able to leave things in the past.


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