# When they dont like themselves...



## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

It never seemed to really matter, or have any lasting effect, by being romantic, leaving flowers, love notes on the dashboard. Despite all my efforts, willful, honest efforts not seeking a change, but a simple support of what I said I felt towards her. 
Did you just hear me? I said you look great in those....
"No I dont, Im fat!!" "Gawd, I cant stand it, "UGGHHHHhh"..

But whether it be depression, or self conciousness, or low esteem, one of the things that stood out in my marriage, that I now recognize as a constant throughout it, was an extreme negative self image my ex had. I remained as "pursuing" as ever, even when her weight skyrocketed, and then came back down again. I commended her on her efforts, and the results of her efforts for losing so much weight when she participated in a "program" costing us thousands of dollars. One part of the program was to eat lots of proteins, which had me outside every weekend for months barbequing the coming weeks protein portions for her, because baked chicken sucks after awhile...
Before all that was the red cabbage soup diet, and many other attempts and minimal progresses. The weight would come off, and she would feel good about herself, but it did not come back to me.. It never did. 

I always wanted to show her the light I saw her in, rather than the light she saw herself in, or pretended to see herself in?
But she would refuse my insistence. I mean, the things I did would have a positive effect, but always so temporary. She did not act needy or clingy, but her opinion of herself would have its effects on everything between us. Intimacy, the showing of affection, the rightful good feelings one should get when reaching goals, cooperation on mutual financial issues, and future planning...
I begin to wonder if this personna was not really a self-hate without cure, but rather a method to acquire what she wants in a relationship. Used like a box to get inside, when she didnt want to participate in the normal actions of a loving spouse.
It seemed like a facade in that light. It seemed like a self-excusing means with which to manipulate the relationship. Something to make "laziness" seem excusable..

I can only attribute certain actions to what they appear to be, so much of what she was like appeared to be a self esteem issue. Always worried about looks when out and about, but in ponytail and sweatpants at home. Pursuits in the bedroom were often grated against the latest headache, tiredness, or 4 week process of mood swing, into cramping, into actual cycle, into the "phase out" of the whole process, which left about 1 whole week per month that she couldnt use that as an excuse.

Somehow in the grand scheme of things, her self-hate was subjected to weight loss programs, gym memberships, several new hairstyles, new kinds of anti-aging makeup, etc. All of which would never have a lasting impact on her attitude towards herself. When looking around for things to change her opinion about herself, and finding that all her efforts as of late have not impacted her sense of self, she began seeing "me" in a different light. Suddenly maybe, perhaps, per chance, that it was this loving, and committed husband of mine that is whats wrong with me. I dont think I am in love with him anymore, and that is bringing me down....

At about that time I noticed the new clothes, jewelery, dressing in a completely different, more feminine manner, when the last ten years of our marriage was sweat pants and "figure hiding" types of clothes.

So she reached a point I guess. And it just so happened that another man was telling her the same things I always did, but with "him" it was new, and "real" and wasnt just being said because we were married.. 
See how her opinion of herself could render the approaches I made towards showing her love and approval as meaningless and routine?

Suddenly it must be, that the affirmations and affectionate words of a friend from twenty five years earlier had impact, had captured her complete undivided attention, had made her feel good about herself again. I guess she felt like she at that point "still had it"...?
Nevermind that I was saying so all along. Nevermind that my own life sucked complete sheepsh!t because of the way she dismissed my expressions of love towards her, and how it affected everything between us. 

Suddenly "I" was the problem with her all along!! Can you imagine? If I had only known, I would have.............acted like an ass?

A big part of me wanted to be lifted up somewhat as well. I mean, this was my wife, whom was supposed to be in love with me and with me for a reason... It doesnt seem like there was a whole lot I could ever do that exacted some lasting positive impression of me from her. I often felt like I was throwing my efforts out of the window and into a deep void, that absorbed everything, and stayed silent.
So after awhile I saw my OWN arms fall to my sides. I saw my own efforts dwindle to nothing. Not that I did things to GET things, as in have an alterior motive, but so much of what I did went completely unrecognized, and then further would be dismissed during any heated discussion as if I never did anything. How cherry picked her arguments always were.
Nevermind reality, what she remembered was always exact...

It seemed like after so much effort on herself bringing no lasting change in opinion of herself, that everything around her had to line up to the chopping block. 
During all of this, imagine how simple it must have seemed as the other man, to capture her attention with a few affectionate words. After a decade of being a good man to my wife, she ended up hating me and turning me into "the" problem in her life.

I read some of the posts here and just about every woman's post I read seems so drastically different than this ALIEN I must have been with. If half of what was being done in love towards some of their husbands, was ever shown towards me.... 
Well, lets just say that I probably would have had something to believe in. 

You give a lot of yourself away in a marriage, especially to someone with something emotionally wrong with them. Its a race that will never be won, as you will find yourself not even a participant after awhile. Despite your shining armor you will be regarded as a beggar in rags, when you listen to the reasons why she cannot offer any affection, and then find out you whine too much about a life without sex or affection....

I feel like I dumped so much of the good of what I was into her, and the outcome has given me a real skepticism towards the value of it. It seems I would only open myself to further bullsh!t if I were to waste efforts on anyone new. I sometimes dont know what to believe, and dont have a lot of faith in the "finding someone right for you" statement.

I find that much of this was my own fault for thinking I knew what was supposed to be in a relationship rather than addressing what was. Why couldnt my wife been loving towards me? Why did she not desire me anymore after so much time? Do people really just tire of the whole intimacy thing after so many years together? It seems there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.. 

Maybe I just wound up with a dud. Invested my life into someone that was not capable of being in an involved and close relationship. That coupled with a severe sense of self-hatred, I was doomed from the get go. I had hoped she would realize that I had seen past all of that, and still desired her.
But then,, I became the face of her problems, especially with another man supporting that idea in secret..

I still have no idea what to do, when getting involved with someone that has issues with themselves. I sure do see where it can compound and expand into becoming detrimental to the marriage... 
I definitely know that I have issues, and yet I didnt turn them into issues with my wife. I realized my imperfection and fallibility, and I think most people do when they reach a certain maturity. 
This though... this marriage I had,,, I dont know what to think of it now. It all seems like such an effort for nothing. 
I did learn though, that you cant affect people like you think you can, and that their problems arent confined to and within themselves.. I woke up one day to find that the whole problem in her life was "me", suddenly, somehow..


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## cryin (Feb 15, 2012)

Your story is so similar to mine. My exw was the same way and when she started the affair she completely changed how she dressed. She started weary sexy dresses that she would have never worn, and all the years always wore shiittty sweats at the house. When I called her out on the changes I was Gaslighted..

NPD


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Hmm, this is almost verbatim what I feel about my stbxw. It is really kind of scary reading, it felt like the conversations of have in my mind on a daily basis.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

I am in the examination stage of the whole marriage, attempting to understand the many facets of our life together that I willingly saw past, or expected to eventually be able to work through. 
I am glad to hear that someone else has dealt with the same personality traits as my ex. I guess in essence, I am building my stash of "red flags" to guard myself..


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well it's def a good idea to take note of those red flags youmissed so that in the future, when you start dating again, you can pick up on them.

I think a lot of us dismissed things early on that we were not ok with and those things snowballed.

My guard is definitely up now, Shoo. That is a good thing.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

In short you can't make someone happy. Either they already are or they aren't. Period end of story.

And if you are even a teensy bit aware you can pick out insecure, unhappy people from a mile away. Then run the other way.


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## tam8145 (Apr 6, 2011)

Shoo, I don't post much but I'm on here regularly. I'm just over a year past d-day. My whole deal was the same as yours. The only difference is I would not allow thousands of $$ on weight loss - so I was controlling. It was good to read your entire post and we're on the same page all the way. 
FWIW - don't get too discouraged. Our ex's cannot offer love required for a real marriage and it's not that way with the next woman. I know cause I found her. Let me know if you need any help. JC


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## cryin (Feb 15, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> In short you can't make someone happy. Either they already are or they aren't. Period end of story.
> 
> And if you are even a teensy bit aware you can pick out insecure, unhappy people from a mile away. Then run the other way.


You are 100% correct. My exw still tries to whine and complain to me and I just ignore it.. She should go whine to her new fiancé.... People that are self loathing and insecure are never happy and are emotional vampires on the people around them. They drain people and then discard them like trash when they find a new source of energy.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Shoo, I have read your original post numerous times since you originally posted it. Mainly because I could have written it myself, and really not sure that I didnt. You wrote as tho you read my mind, but did a lot better at putting it on paper than I ever could. My xw NEVER liked herself, always was super insecure, we never had it as good as X. (although she was a stay at home mom for all but a couple of years) and after a while I too became the enemy, the source of all her problems. My D day was 7/10/2011, the day I found some questionable texts on her phone and she literally loaded two suitcases and WALKED the 5 blocks to the OM's house, where she has remained. I thankfully dont see her much as my kids are all adults and out of the house. But when I do, and when others do, it is so obvious that things are not better for her, but even worse. I want to shout at her, "Hey you are so happy now? You should be, you got rid of me the source of all your problems!" But might as well hollar at the wall. 
Our job now is to contemplate, analyze, digest and recognize that nothing we could have done would fix their problems, nothing would have changed the outcome. The POSOM she is with is a total idiot, I am watching from afar to see how long it takes him to realize what a mess he got himself into. He might of said that he loves her, but no way does he love her like I did and do. She is going to really crash and burn, and finally I can say I feel sorry for her, him not so much.
So analyze away and please write about it, you help me get my mind around it, something I now pray for each day, to get my mind around it. I have dated a bit and am shocked at how nice the women are that I continually run into, took a trip to Arizona to see the Cubs in Spring Training last week, took my gf. WOW! what a difference, the best you could ever get out of my xw was things are ok, she would never admit that she was having fun, not so my gf! So refreshing to have fun at things, not having to worry if your spouse is having fun as well. My xw really was an emotional vampire, I just never realize how much it was getting to me. You and I and many others on here might have just stumbled on the best thing that could of happen to us, divorce. I only hope that with time it does get better, I am counting on it. My best to you.


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## cryin (Feb 15, 2012)

:


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## Paradise (Dec 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Well it's def a good idea to take note of those red flags youmissed so that in the future, when you start dating again, you can pick up on them.
> 
> I think a lot of us dismissed things early on that we were not ok with and those things snowballed.
> 
> My guard is definitely up now, Shoo. That is a good thing.


This makes a lot of sense to me. In my case I even remember stating a lot of those "red flags" to my exw while we were dating and she always had an answer. Then she became something that she was not just to please me. I get it. 

After a while she just couldn't keep up being someone who she was not and it wore on her. She changed jobs, made new friends, and found a new boyfriend. I tried to keep things the way they were. In the end I became the one trying to change to be what I thought she wanted and it brought out the worst in me. She was scared of being on her own and stayed until she found a replacement. 

It's amazing that I find these bits and pieces of truth every now and then. Makes me realize just how bad of a match we were in the very beginning. Won't ignore the red flags ever again.


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## cryin (Feb 15, 2012)

Paradise said:


> This makes a lot of sense to me. In my case I even remember stating a lot of those "red flags" to my exw while we were dating and she always had an answer. Then she became something that she was not just to please me. I get it.
> 
> After a while she just couldn't keep up being someone who she was not and it wore on her. She changed jobs, made new friends, and found a new boyfriend. I tried to keep things the way they were. In the end I became the one trying to change to be what I thought she wanted and it brought out the worst in me. She was scared of being on her own and stayed until she found a replacement.
> 
> It's amazing that I find these bits and pieces of truth every now and then. Makes me realize just how bad of a match we were in the very beginning. Won't ignore the red flags ever again.


These types of women are vine swingers.. they won't let go of one vine until they think the next one will hold up and not break. Emotional vampires that feel validation for awhile by having someone else... "Its about the catch" ....My exw tried to string me along and keep me on the back burner after our divorce was final. She called me up a few months after the divorce and wanted to come over and talk. She was trying to manipulate me. She wasn't sure if her new vine was going to hold. 2 weeks after that she was moving him into the house and they were "engaged"

It will be her 4th marriage before 38 so she's passing her pu$$y around like it's a bread basket at dinner


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Shooboomafoo said:


> Why couldnt my wife been loving towards me? Why did she not desire me anymore after so much time? ...Maybe I just wound up with a dud.


No, Shoo, it sounds you may have ended up with a woman who has moderate to strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Specifically, the behaviors you describe -- the self hatred, blame-shifting, vindictiveness, verbal abuse, selfishness, inability to appreciate your sacrifices, fear of attachment, inability to trust you, and lack of impulse control -- are classic traits of BPD. Like JellyBeans said, it is important to learn to recognize the red flags.

I therefore suggest you read my description of BPD traits in Maybe's thread to see if most of the red flags sound very familiar. My post there is at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you. I also would be glad to give you a link to a forum where there are several hundred other parents struggling to raise a child with another parent who has BPD. They can give you many useful tips. Take care, Shoo.


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## madaboutlove (Aug 28, 2011)

I thought I might find something here to say, I think my stbxh is having a MLC, he is unhappy with lots of parts of his life, but I have decided not to think about that or talk about it with others as an explanation for our D. He decided, no input from me. No effort on his part. Just done. SO, now I have moved on, made my friendships stronger, my relationship with my sons is great, I am in pretty good shape, work and school going well and even some attention from several men. I miss being a wife, the physical contact is something that was always pretty good. And my only hope for healing is to get thoughts of him out of my head.


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## Cinema79 (Aug 30, 2013)

So much of what the OP wrote here is just way too familiar and painful to read.


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