# Trapped by spouse’s “comfort zone”



## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Looking for some advice. Married 18 years. Wife started down the road of depression, worsening OCD, fear, constant anxiety about 8 years ago. I’m extremely laid back and I’m starting to feel squeezed by having to live in my wife’s shrinking comfort zone 24/7 when I’m not on the road for work. It’s taking up more and more emotional real estate in our marriage. Based on FOO, she loathes conflict and avoids that and criticism at all costs. But if cornered will “win at all costs.” Our therapist said this is a means of control and subtle emotional abuse. I’d also argue its a defensive mechanism defending what I’m not sure.

Activities are nearly exclusively on her terms (where, when, what) and I’ve had to remove myself from planning/leading because something will trigger her or finds a reason for a “no”. Hopes I’ll be friends with her friends’ hubbies but not the other way around. “I don’t care, where ever you wanna eat. Well not there because.... “ She expects me to be part of what she plans but for me I get a “have fun” and end up by myself. It makes me feel less connected especially since we have less in common to talk about. She once lauded me about my active listening skills in a small group setting but truth be told, her style is ask one superficial question, listen and not have anything to offer. It’s like her knowledge of me is a mile wide and an inch deep. But loves that I get her.

We’ve gotten into a few fights on vacation in that she says she’s relaxed but I’m tense. She says its how she connects with me but it feels like “being on the job” because we have to work around her wants and anxiety triggers 24/7. I always have to be ready to step in if there’s a medical or emotional problem. Attempts to connect are short and easily/routinely disrupted by the kids/germs/fear. Should we go somewhere by ourselves you ask? Yes but there is no one she trusts to leave our kids with besides MIL and even then that’s short-lived. It’s also like we’re stealing from our kids growing up. 

Are we having sex? Yes, twice a month but we can’t talk about it. Before during or after. Very her-centric. And once it’s done, she swiftly towels off, throw it at me and then off to do something else. So the post-coital downtime is non-existent. 

She acknowledges the OCD/Anxiety/Fear but makes jokes about it routinely. To me they just aren’t funny any more. Like a husband joking about his ED to his wife who hasn’t been able to get intercourse in years. She’s on meds, tried therapy but finds reasons to chose another therapist (irony is she is a therapist). Currently been on a wait list to see a new one for 6 months. I think she’d rather stay on the meds than get closer to me or face her past. The adage of being comfortable in your own dysfunction and all that.

I love her very much but feel increasingly disconnected like she’s hoping to run the clock out and get the most for giving the least. I feel guilty about doing stuff on my own but maybe I shouldn’t. Thoughts?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

How long ago did she experience sexual trauma?

I would bet before the age of 18. 

Was a family member the culprit?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I grew up with a family member with anxiety, depression, and likely BPD. She liked to make it everyone else's job to manage her symptoms - we had a laundry list of things we could do and not do, things we could say and not say, and things we had to take care of for her.

It didn't work, because those things didn't actually help her mental health. They made it worse, because she became increasingly sensitive to smaller and smaller things, which triggered a negative loop where we had to be more tightly controlled and managed so she wouldn't get triggered.

I ended up walking away from anything but a civil and occasional relationship with her, because she continues this behaviour to this day. She's set up her whole life so that her husband, children, and extended family members exist to structure and protect her from life. I can't do that, and even if I could, I couldn't live and be happy doing that.

It's not your job to manage her symptoms. It's her job to manage her symptoms. If she's not in good enough working order to be married to you, then she should be working towards getting to be in good enough working order to maintain a good relationship for both of you.

It's one thing to lean on someone in times of need. It's quite another to expect someone to manage your own failing mental health. She needs therapy and to do some work, and you need to be clear with her about your role in that. You're a cheerleader, not her coach, quarterback, receiver, and defensemen. You shouldn't be in the playing field at all, you should be cheering from the sidelines.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

So this might sound really mean but the problem with people who suffer from depression/anxiety/OCD is that they are incredibly selfish and self centered. Everyone gets anxious at time, everyone gets depressed at times... but I am talking about those people who really have it bad and it’s all the time. They are selfish! The world revolves around them, it’s all about them and what makes them happy, and they live a life that is hedonistic. 

Sorry if I offend anyone. But at some point you have to ask yourself what about me? What is she bringing to the table for you? Because your important too. And often times people who are with these people forget about themselves and it’s not ok. 

Set boundaries. Don’t forget about yourself. She is a grown women. You are there to support her, not carry her and manage her. She is your equal partner, not your dependent.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Well said Marduk! OP, you can only change yourself because thats all you have control over. Its not selfish to take time to yourself, its necessary. I would also point out that being there under control isn't having the effect of closeness you desire. So you feel yourself doing the same things over and over and clearly it isn't working. Focus on letting go of your guilt at sometimes taking care of number 1. You have to work on getting out of your own way here too, not just working on trying to get her out of her own ways.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

aaarghdub said:


> I think she’d rather stay on the meds than get closer to me or face her past. The adage of being comfortable in your own dysfunction and all that.
> 
> I love her very much but feel increasingly disconnected like she’s hoping to run the clock out and get the most for giving the least. I feel guilty about doing stuff on my own but maybe I shouldn’t.


I feel ya.

Edit: If you stumble upon a solution, let me know.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Someone else here faced the same issues with an OCD wife? (IA)

I disagree with girl_power. It is not intentional. It is an illness that requires treatment. It is a proven biochemical imbalance. The fact that it manifests in mood or thought or behaviour is only because these illnesses affect the organ responsible for mood and thought.

To say that depression/anxiety or OCD is selfish is simply an uninformed judgement and only helps to prolong the stigma and prevent people from getting appropriate help.

OCD is notoriously resistant to treatment, especially drug therapy. CBT (cognitive behavioural) is the most helpful. 

Only when the sufferer gets fed up with how it intrudes on their life do things begin to change.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

aquarius1 said:


> Someone else here faced the same issues with an OCD wife? (IA)
> 
> I disagree with girl_power. It is not intentional. It is an illness that requires treatment. It is a proven biochemical imbalance. The fact that it manifests in mood or thought or behaviour is only because these illnesses affect the organ responsible for mood and thought.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Quoted for truth.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> So this might sound really mean but the problem with people who suffer from depression/anxiety/OCD is that they are incredibly selfish and self centered. Everyone gets anxious at time, everyone gets depressed at times... but I am talking about those people who really have it bad and it’s all the time. They are selfish! The world revolves around them, it’s all about them and what makes them happy, and they live a life that is hedonistic.
> 
> Sorry if I offend anyone.


Since medical science has proven that depression/anxiety/OCD are mental illnesses caused by problems with brain chemistry, this part of your post is offensive.

We can recognize that these disorders are real and often out of control of the person who suffers from them and also recognize that no person is obligated to bend over backwards to accommodate a person who has a mental health issue.



Girl_power said:


> But at some point you have to ask yourself what about me? What is she bringing to the table for you? Because your important too. And often times people who are with these people forget about themselves and it’s not ok.
> 
> Set boundaries. Don’t forget about yourself. She is a grown women. You are there to support her, not carry her and manage her. She is your equal partner, not your dependent.


Now this I agree with.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

aquarius1 said:


> Someone else here faced the same issues with an OCD wife? (IA)
> 
> I disagree with girl_power. It is not intentional. It is an illness that requires treatment. It is a proven biochemical imbalance. The fact that it manifests in mood or thought or behaviour is only because these illnesses affect the organ responsible for mood and thought.
> 
> ...


Yes and no. I mean, mostly yes. But BPD is a *****.

People with BPD often have anxiety and depression. However, they can also manipulate their illness to get what they want. 

Many times - I'm paraphrasing two therapists, one of which is literally the most highly academically accredited one in Canada - folks with BPD only get treatment when they run out of people to use. Only then do they hit rock bottom and seek help.

Not everyone with anxiety or depression is BPD, but it is extremely common to have anxiety or depression if you have BPD. And it is also extremely common for treatments for anxiety or depression to fail with BPD, because the anxiety isn't just anxiety, it's a distorted view of reality that often leads to not wanting to get treated at all.

If you read "I hate you, don't leave me" for example, you'll find many cases where someone's depression or anxiety is weaponized to achieve a goal that fits their BPD parameters. For a narcissist, it's often about getting attention. For a machiavellian, it's about control. Etc. So the anxiety or depression becomes "pay attention to me" or "do what I want you to do."

There's layers to this stuff, all bad, and I certainly don't want to paint the average person with anxiety or depression as dangerous or selfish or manipulative - it's not their fault and they need help. But if that help never seems to help... ask yourself what that person is getting out of their anxiety or depression, and ask yourself what your role is in that.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> We can recognize that these disorders are real and often out of control of the person who suffers from them and also recognize that no person is obligated to bend over backwards to accommodate a person who has a mental health issue.



Unless it is your child then your spine strengthens, while forced to remain flexible.

I agree, mental illness is real, as are hurt feelings, they are both real rough seas.
Which has more weight depends on the abused person's tolerance of wait and sees.




TT-


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

aquarius1 said:


> Someone else here faced the same issues with an OCD wife? (IA)
> 
> I disagree with girl_power. It is not intentional. It is an illness that requires treatment. It is a proven biochemical imbalance. The fact that it manifests in mood or thought or behaviour is only because these illnesses affect the organ responsible for mood and thought.
> 
> ...




I understand it’s a real thing. My point is that I can’t be with someone so selfish. I have needs and wants too. I am a person too. I can’t make my whole life all about another person. Walking on egg shells everyday. Constantly not trying to offend, or hurt or upset someone. Life is hard and stressful as is. Being with someone who is constantly unhappy or anxious sucks the life out of me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> So this might sound really mean but the problem with people who suffer from depression/anxiety/OCD is that they are incredibly selfish and self centered.


I'm married to one (not for long)... I believe it's a defence mechanism...



Girl_power said:


> Set boundaries. Don’t forget about yourself. She is a grown women. You are there to support her, not carry her and manage her. She is your equal partner, not your dependent.


Easier said than done... we are dealing with people with mental issues. They come first, then their issues, then the kids... there is no room left for you...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> Are we having sex? Yes, twice a month but we can’t talk about it. Before during or after. Very her-centric.


Are you sure you are not married to my wife? 



aaarghdub said:


> She acknowledges the OCD/Anxiety/Fear but makes jokes about it routinely.


well, at least she is talking about it... my wife can't. At all. Never. Ever. 




aaarghdub said:


> She’s on meds, tried therapy but finds reasons to chose another therapist (irony is she is a therapist). ... I think she’d rather stay on the meds than get closer to me or face her past. The adage of being comfortable in your own dysfunction and all that.


Yep! My wife refuses therapy. She doesn't want to face her past. It's easier to take pills. Unfortunately, this has destroyed our marriage...



aaarghdub said:


> I love her very much but feel increasingly disconnected like she’s hoping to run the clock out and get the most for giving the least. I feel guilty about doing stuff on my own but maybe I shouldn’t. Thoughts?


Don't feel guilty. Unfortunately, you can't fix her. I tried for 20 years. No luck. Yes, the disconnect will get stronger. I ended up isolating myself at the end. Very painful, but you reach a stage when you can't take it anymore. It's a constant battle.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I understand it’s a real thing. My point is that I can’t be with someone so selfish. I have needs and wants too. I am a person too. I can’t make my whole life all about another person. Walking on egg shells everyday. Constantly not trying to offend, or hurt or upset someone. Life is hard and stressful as is. Being with someone who is constantly unhappy or anxious sucks the life out of me.


Exactly. But it's not selfishness... see below... actually, it's the next page now...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

aquarius1 said:


> Someone else here faced the same issues with an OCD wife? (IA)
> 
> I disagree with girl_power. It is not intentional. It is an illness that requires treatment. It is a proven biochemical imbalance. The fact that it manifests in mood or thought or behaviour is only because these illnesses affect the organ responsible for mood and thought.
> 
> ...



Yes, you are correct. It's not selfishness. It's an illness. And the illness take precedence on everything. OCD people don't do this on purpose. My wife has Pure O, so it doesn't manifest in any way. It's all inside her head. It's taken me years to understand this. She's been very secretive about it, to the point that I ended up destroying our marriage with my anger. Now I know the reasons. She still can't talk about it. I don't blame her.. It is what it is. But she doesn't want to go to therapy (CBT or ERP), so our marriage is over. I can't be with a person who is not committed to the marriage and blames me for getting angry at the unknown... because I had no idea how bad it was.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OnTheFly said:


> If you stumble upon a solution, let me know.



There is no solution. The therapy is CBT/ERP + SSRIs. ERP is very disturbing since it works by facing your own fears, gradually. Therapy and meds are the best approach. If the OP's wife doesn't want to go to therapy (despite what she says), the illness will be managed by meds only and this won't resolve the underlying issue. Like this, she won't get better. It will be managed.

From my experience, the OP needs to change his POV about the whole situation. He needs to realise that his wife is mentally ill, has serious mental issues. She is not being selfish. OCD/anxiety is an all absorbing condition, which dominates you completely. In my situation, my wife was fine until the first two children, then she started deteriorating. Why? Her capacity was starting to get "full". After 2 more kids, it got full. She only had room for herself, her issues and the kids. I was pushed away. Unfortunately, she failed to communicate the seriousness of her issues. But this is how purely obsessional OCD works. It's all inside your head. But she was aware of it. When I said I wanted a divorce 11 years ago, she said she would do therapy, only to come up with lots of excuses about it. Two years later, she told me she wasn't going and things would never change. I was devastated. But we compromised.

Until this year. She's decided to take sex off the table saying her issues (empty nest, upbringing, depression, menopause - mind you, no mention of her OCD) are too bad. Take it or leave it. The last 10 years she stayed for the kids, she did it for me. She doesn't love me anymore because of my anger episodes and my isolation 10 years ago. It's too late.

So, what can I suggest? Not a lot. I'm not sure how old the OP's kids are... it's not easy living with a person like this. I made some serious mistakes because of the lack of communication. I wish I had read more about it (OCD and intrusive thoughts), informing myself. But I was too immature. We fought a lot about sex, or the lack of it. I wanted my wife to come back from the abyss. I failed miserably. 

If the OP can change his point of view and think about her wife as a person with serious issues, _not selfish_, maybe he will find a way to help her and be compassionate. It's hard work and it requires a dedication I don't have, never had and I will never have. Sadly, we have decided to separate.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> There is no solution. The therapy is CBT/ERP + SSRIs. ERP is very disturbing since it works by facing your own fears, gradually. Therapy and meds are the best approach. If the OP's wife doesn't want to go to therapy (despite what she says), the illness will be managed by meds only and this won't resolve the underlying issue. Like this, she won't get better. It will be managed.
> 
> From my experience, the OP needs to change his POV about the whole situation. He needs to realise that his wife is mentally ill, has serious mental issues. She is not being selfish. OCD/anxiety is an all absorbing condition, which dominates you completely. In my situation, my wife was fine until the first two children, then she started deteriorating. Why? Her capacity was starting to get "full". After 2 more kids, it got full. She only had room for herself, her issues and the kids. I was pushed away. Unfortunately, she failed to communicate the seriousness of her issues. But this is how purely obsessional OCD works. It's all inside your head. But she was aware of it. When I said I wanted a divorce 11 years ago, she said she would do therapy, only to come up with lots of excuses about it. Two years later, she told me she wasn't going and things would never change. I was devastated. But we compromised.
> 
> ...


People can always look back on a situation and see how they could have handled things differently. That’s how we grow.

Living with a person with mental health issues is “crazy making” ( yes, I can say that because I am the one who suffers with depression).
Humans have limits. Nobody should feel guilty rhat they had to walk away in order to save themselves.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Marduk said:


> I grew up with a family member with anxiety, depression, and likely BPD. She liked to make it everyone else's job to manage her symptoms - we had a laundry list of things we could do and not do, things we could say and not say, and things we had to take care of for her.
> 
> It didn't work, because those things didn't actually help her mental health. They made it worse, because she became increasingly sensitive to smaller and smaller things, which triggered a negative loop where we had to be more tightly controlled and managed so she wouldn't get triggered.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

aquarius1 said:


> Nobody should feel guilty rhat they had to walk away in order to save themselves.


Thanks... I'm trying to convince myself, because I'm pretty sure my wife is thinking I'm abandoning her because of sex. This is not true obviously. We haven't had sex in almost two years and I'm still here (although only for a few more weeks)... I have changed my point of view about my wife. I'm not angry anymore. I understand. I still feel like I shouldn't go, that I should stay here and look after her. But I can't. I cannot have a platonic relationship with a woman I love and desire. It would destroy me. I will be supportive of her, though, with no resentment or hostility. I just regret I could not help her more and now it's too late.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

aquarius1 said:


> Someone else here faced the same issues with an OCD wife? (IA)
> 
> I disagree with girl_power. It is not intentional. It is an illness that requires treatment. It is a proven biochemical imbalance. The fact that it manifests in mood or thought or behaviour is only because these illnesses affect the organ responsible for mood and thought.
> 
> ...


Most instances of mental illness, these crappy personalities are not really curable. The person displaying them, and acting out this way, cannot help but be 'themselves'.

If everyone in the world could grasp this concept, it would make for a much calmer world. 

_We are what we are. 
Don't take 'personal', what others dish out._



from the Archives of SunCMars-

This does not mean others have to like your projected image, nor, your persona.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Thanks... I'm trying to convince myself, because I'm pretty sure my wife is thinking I'm abandoning her because of sex. This is not true obviously. We haven't had sex in almost two years and I'm still here (although only for a few more weeks)... I have changed my point of view about my wife. I'm not angry anymore. I understand. I still feel like I shouldn't go, that I should stay here and look after her. But I can't. I cannot have a platonic relationship with a woman I love and desire. It would destroy me. I will be supportive of her, though, with no resentment or hostility. I just regret I could not help her more and now it's too late.


God Bless You.
Both of you.


One broken, the other broken by the former.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Mental illness sucks. For EVERYONE involved. From my experience it is a long slow journey to wellness, YEARS. Figuring out the right combo of meds, balancing side effects with effectiveness so that we can actually “live” our lives, drive a car, interact with people, hold a job.
Finding appropriate therapy is another challenge. You go through MANY therapists, each with their own agenda. Some truly ineffective. Some do more harm than good. Finding a good one takes a long time. Then they retire. Or in my case they die.
Wash rinse repeat.
It is frustrating, heartbreaking and exhausting. Some just give up, worn out. Some die.
When your brain tells you lies, the one organ that you need to help you think your way out of this mess has turned on you.
It changes you, your personality.

I salute anyone who can survive this journey with us, a cycle that often repeats itself over many years.
I do NOT blame ANYONE who has to leave to save themselves.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> There is no solution. The therapy is CBT/ERP + SSRIs. ERP is very disturbing since it works by facing your own fears, gradually. Therapy and meds are the best approach. If the OP's wife doesn't want to go to therapy (despite what she says), the illness will be managed by meds only and this won't resolve the underlying issue. Like this, she won't get better. It will be managed.
> 
> From my experience, the OP needs to change his POV about the whole situation. He needs to realise that his wife is mentally ill, has serious mental issues. She is not being selfish. OCD/anxiety is an all absorbing condition, which dominates you completely. In my situation, my wife was fine until the first two children, then she started deteriorating. Why? Her capacity was starting to get "full". After 2 more kids, it got full. She only had room for herself, her issues and the kids. I was pushed away. Unfortunately, she failed to communicate the seriousness of her issues. But this is how purely obsessional OCD works. It's all inside your head. But she was aware of it. When I said I wanted a divorce 11 years ago, she said she would do therapy, only to come up with lots of excuses about it. Two years later, she told me she wasn't going and things would never change. I was devastated. But we compromised.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that.

I'm not sure exactly what I dealing with here at home, but alot (but not all) what the OP and you are saying is sounding very familiar.

Out of curiosity. With the OCD. Are we talking about the cliche things like turning the light switch on and off 5 times or something more nuanced. My wife takes meds to ''turn my brain off at night''. Is this something similar?

The OP mentioned ''Avoidant'' by Jeb Kinnison. I went down that rabbit hole last night, haha. I've got way more reading to do, but there could be something to this attachment theory, which I've never heard of before.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OnTheFly said:


> Out of curiosity. With the OCD. Are we talking about the cliche things like turning the light switch on and off 5 times or something more nuanced. My wife takes meds to ''turn my brain off at night''. Is this something similar?


No, my wife is pure obsessional, i.e. she gets intrusive thoughts she can't get rid of... it's a lot worse than ruminating... her intrusive thoughts are violent in nature, i.e. our kids dying in a car crash. She takes anti-depressants to control them and they work to a certain extent. You could say they turn their brain off. If she stops taking them, the thoughts come back. She's also suffering from stuff which happened to her when she was a child. Not of sexual nature. She can't talk about it (although she's told me what it is) and she can't get over it without therapy. But she is not going. Typical rug-sweeping...


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

OnTheFly said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In her case, the OCD is germ phobia and primal fear of losing kids and gets worse ever year. She will only say in newer hotels. She packs Clorox and cleans the hotel bathrooms and kitchen (if equipped). Kitchen must be bleached end-of-day ONLY by her. Yet some how has no problem driving around in a pig sty of a truck. 

I’m realizing she’s fighting a battle on four fronts. First is FOO trauma and abandonment. Second is huge intimacy and vulnerability issues. Third, menopause and other hormone issues. Fourth is very low self esteem. Since I won’t leave my only choices are ignore/enable or protect myself. Another poster said that it does take a while for her to find the right path. That’s true but I can’t ignore self-care either.



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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> Since I won’t leave my only choices are ignore/enable or protect myself.


Yes. I mostly ignored, and did what I wanted to do anyway. I was fortunate to earn enough money that I could have a full-time care person for 4 years and a part-time person for 6-7 more.

Do what you want with your life. Don't let her stop you. Don't give her power over you.



aaarghdub said:


> Another poster said that it does take a while for her to find the right path.


She may never find it. Ignore, and continue.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> In her case, the OCD is germ phobia and primal fear of losing kids and gets worse ever year. She will only say in newer hotels. She packs Clorox and cleans the hotel bathrooms and kitchen (if equipped). Kitchen must be bleached end-of-day ONLY by her. Yet some how has no problem driving around in a pig sty of a truck.
> 
> I’m realizing she’s fighting a battle on four fronts. First is FOO trauma and abandonment. Second is huge intimacy and vulnerability issues. Third, menopause and other hormone issues. Fourth is very low self esteem. Since I won’t leave my only choices are ignore/enable or protect myself. Another poster said that it does take a while for her to find the right path. That’s true but I can’t ignore self-care either.



The rituals are really hard to deal with as a partner. If you are not leaving (fair enough), then I would agree that it's ok for you to find some kind of outlet to distract yourself/relax, away from all this. I wouldn't have a problem. BTW, we are separating because I mishandled the situation by not knowing what really was going on, since my wife managed to hide her symptoms particularly well. I would have stayed, but with no intimacy it's impossible for me. And she says it's too late now.


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