# Wife calling School Male friend every day multiple times



## vmails

My wife has got in touch with her school friends a few months back. I noticed in her last mobile bill that she has been calling a particular male friend for almost 30 minutes daily (4-5 calls on an average). I dont know about incoming calls. I confronted her, she says its only a friend and there is nothing between them. She even says if I dont like, she wont call. However, this is killing me from inside. She has been deleting call logs, locked her phone with password etc. This made me suspicious and therefore I decided to check the phone bill.I really hope for my love for her that I am getting unnecessarily suspicious. Only thing is that I am unable to deal with this situation, cant sleep, cant get this whole thing out of my head. If any one of you have gone through this and dealt with this please help me cope with this situation. Thanks


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## bryanp

If the roles were reversed how would your wife be feeling? The fact that she is deleting call logs, and locking her phone pretty much says it all. Those with nothing to hide - hide nothing. Others here will tell you what to do but it does not look good. Good luck.


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## keko

Which phone is she using?


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## SaltInWound

She is guilty.....textbook guilty.


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## Machiavelli

Does you wife drive to work? If so, put a VAR under her carseat. Velcro it to the seat springs. 

Is this guy local?


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## EleGirl

Does your wife work outside the home? 

What is the timing of these calls. For example is she calling him while she's on her way to or from work?

Or if she is a stay at home mom (SAHM), does she call after you leave.. shortly after your leave.

How do the calls fit into her day?

Can you check when they are texting?


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## Shaggy

You need to stop confronting her and put VARS where she is making the calls from. You need to know what she is saying,


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## I got this

Look at the time of day for the calls and see how it coincides with her commute. If it does then VAR under the seat. 

She needs to be nailed. Get busy and take care of this fast.

Its an EA and she may be entering the FOG. 

Use the search to look up "FOG". Its a real treat to deal with.


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## weightlifter

Damn. Here we go again. This is cheater script 101. There are people here who are experts. Listen to them if you want to even have a chance. Mach above is a blackbelt in explaining attraction which is 180 degrees from the wimpy crap they taught you in school.

****YOU NEED TO ACT NOW TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE. THIS IS YOUR JOB NOW****

DO NOT CONFRONT EARLY UNTIL YOU HAVE YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW!!!!

1) It is not your fault. This MIGHT be early enough to only be an EA.
2) WHERE does she talk to him? WHere in house? When in car?
3) Distance from him?
4) VAR idea above is dead on. Ill get you a make and model number shortly. Get two. one for her car under seat as above. The other wherever she talks. Note it wont be admissible in court but it will give you what is going on. DO THIS NOW DAMMIT. HIDE THEM WELL!!!!
5) MAKE SURE YOU ERASE YOUR BROWSER HISTORY. CIBS forgot that and his wife came here. Now his wife is living with her AP.
6) DO NOT CONFRONT EARLY. RDMU did exactly that and he is now into a whole month of pure hell with 100 percent knowlege his wife is cheating but its not admissible. WHEN you confront you need your ducks in a row. Have a water available to both of you as your mouth will go dry in an instant.

NEVER reveal your electronic SOURCES!!!!!!! They are YOUR ACE IN THE SLEEVE!!!

Please add ages, length of relationship, length of marriage, number of kids and generic description

You may not be at the GPS stage yet or you may... BEWARE ANY SUDDEN HER NEED TO:
have a girls night out
VISIT A SICK FRIEND
Sudden business trip etc.

GPS
(from RDMU, and yes I have permission to release this info) I went with the eZoom, available at some RadioShack locations for about $100.

Personal GPS Locators, Portable GPS tracker, GPS vehicle tracking, family car GPS tracking, Personal tracking system, Zoombak

I am fairly pleased with this product. It does essentially do what it says it will. It includes live tracking via the web or a mobile app. You need to sign up for a service plan ($180/yr). There are other gps trackers available that don't require a service plan. They store all the location info on the device itself, which you subsequently download to a computer.

I wanted the live tracking to enable me to contact a PI in the event I see her headed somewhere for a potential rendezvous. Finding out where she had been only after the fact would not be as helpful.

The main downside to this product is that it does not automatically store all location info. You can log onto the site and tell it to "Track" which it will then do for one hour. You can of course locate it at any time, but there is no option to simply see where all it has been throughout the day.

GOOD VAR
(From RDMU) Sony ICD-PX312 which I purchased at Best Buy for about $50. This one is a HUGE improvement over the RCA. I highly recommend it. I put two of them out and left them on voice activated mode for four full days. With lithium batteries, I returned to find both still showing a full battery charge. One had about 6 hours of actual recording and the other had about 20 hours. The voice activated feature is VERY sensitive and it doesn't miss a thing.

Bad VAR
(From RDMU) My initial attempt at the VAR was the RCA model VR5320R, available at Target and Wal-Mart for about $30. Don't waste your time. They shut down after 15 hours of recording even though the battery is still fine and there is ample memory remaining. Don't know why and it isn't mentioned in the instructions. It was by design however as I had two running and they both shut down at exactly 15 hours.

DO NOT ASK HER ABOUT IT NOW!!! you will drive it underground and she will get damn good at hiding it.

When did the phone password thing start?
Are you in the US? Fault or no fault divorce state?


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## verpin zal

Ask her about what they're talking about for 1800 seconds a day next time.

Expect the bullschit, but never accept it.


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## walkonmars

Yep, all good advice. Don't say another word to her about this until you have more evidence. The VAR will get it for you in a matter of days. Doesn't look good.

Do you have kids?

Been married long?

Family nearby?


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## tacoma

Put a VAR under car seat.
You'll have all you need within a day or two.


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## weightlifter

Damn I hope it aint a PA yet. Hope he came here in time.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

In my case,

(FACEBOOK + OLD FLAME) * 2YEAR EA/PA = DIVORCE

Your marriage is in deep trouble.

Follow the advice that you're being given and hopefully you can save it.

Good luck!

Edited to Add: EA = Emotional Affair, PA = Physical Affair


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## weightlifter

Count, read your story. Any wimmin in the picture now? (hint you're supposed to say younger and hotter)/ end hijack


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## carolinadreams

Sometimes I think there is too much focus on investigation. My wife cycle went from texting to physical to done, in a period of about 2 months. Now, she was having a straight up mental breakdown, so maybe that accelerated it but if you have some facts, it may be better to head it off at the pass than run the risk of letting it become physical if it hasn't already.


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## unbelievable

Sharpen your pocket knife when she's around. Helps if it's a little on the big side. Get her to start talking about this other guy. No yelling, no fussing, just look her dead in the eye and ask, "you fixinta make me cut that man, aintcha?" If you say it exactly right, it'll come out Southern. You'll be sexy, scary, and Southern all at the same time and no woman can resist that. Every time she thinks of this guy, she'll imagine you whittlin' on him. If she talks to the guy again, she'll probably mention this little exchange, because she's a woman and they "share" everything. She might think you're funny but this other guy will probably figure she's not worth the loss of a liver.


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## SaltInWound

unbelievable said:


> Sharpen your pocket knife when she's around. Helps if it's a little on the big side. Get her to start talking about this other guy. No yelling, no fussing, just look her dead in the eye and ask, "you fixinta make me cut that man, aintcha?" If you say it exactly right, it'll come out Southern. You'll be sexy, scary, and Southern all at the same time and no woman can resist that. Every time she thinks of this guy, she'll imagine you whittlin' on him. If she talks to the guy again, she'll probably mention this little exchange, because she's a woman and they "share" everything. She might think you're funny but this other guy will probably figure she's not worth the loss of a liver.


:rofl:


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## Wiserforit

vmails said:


> Only thing is that I am unable to deal with this situation, cant sleep, cant get this whole thing out of my head. If any one of you have gone through this and dealt with this please help me cope with this situation. Thanks


Being lied to and manipulated is even worse than the crime itself because that's already ongoing. The lies and manipulation are mental torture on top of the infidelity. 

Shes lying of course, minimizing what is going on. She'll blame you for being suspicious, controlling, jealous, and make you feel guilty. She's not going to admit to anything except what you have bullet proof evidence of, and even then if all you have is pictures of their naked top half in bed, she'll say they were wearing clothes on the bottm half. 

Enter 007 spy mode, see posts above. She's already driving this deeper underground because you tipped her off. Once you've got the goods on her then we can talk about the program, but you're going to need to have her caught cold with no wiggle room first. She's following cheater 101 script and you're going to have her nailed here soon enough.


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## TRy

vmails said:


> She even says if I dont like, she wont call. However, this is killing me from inside. She has been deleting call logs, locked her phone with password etc.


 At the early stages of a possible affair, this is were many go wrong in not being strong and taking action. Call your wife's bluff and take her up on the offer and do it now. Tell her that you want her to go full no contact with this other man and ask her for full transparency (including passwords) without complaint to insure that full no contact is observed. Her reaction to this will tell you just how far it has gone with the other man. If she agrees, you caught it in time. If not, your marriage is in trouble.


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## unbelievable

If her communications are entirely innocent, why delete the phone log? Why keep changing the passwords? I know my wife's phone password and she knows mine. Why keep it a secret unless she's up to something ugly? Why is this guy significant enough to talk to multiple times a day but not significant enough to mention to her husband? I suspect if he does "call her bluff" she's already got a plan to maintain contact with this guy on the sly with an alternate phone or some other means. People who aren't up to anything rarely sneak around.
Maybe I missed it, but why is the OP snooping around in his wife's phone? He must have had some reason to be suspicious. It doesn't cross my mind to read my wife's mail or snoop around in her cell phone or email accounts.


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## Will_Kane

Take your wife up on the offer to end contact with this guy. Red flag (besides the obvious excessive amount of contact) - she offered to stop calling this guy, but made no mention of offering to stop taking his calls. So in the future, he does all the calling, same amount of contact.

Tell her you love her. Most likely you have become comfortable in your relationship with your wife, lack some passion, and she is getting off on this guy's sexual and emotional desire for her.

No matter what is going on, she is talking to him more than she talks to you, so that is no good for your marriage. It's not natural to talk to anyone that much on the phone.

A poster named F-102 has a list of how the conversation escalates between old opposite sex "friends" - I will try to find it and post it for you.

There is no reason for password protected phones between a husband and a wife. Sit down with your wife now, ask her why you shouldn't both just have each other's passwords, as husband and wife you should be sharing your lives together, not keeping secrets from each other. What is "privacy" but keeping secrets. Tell her privacy is for the bathroom, everything else is secrecy.

Many other posters who have come here with a seemingly innocent question about excessive phone calls have later found out their wives were "in love" with the other man - just warning you to be prepared for that possibility and not to be in denial if more red flags surface - it happens all the time.

The VAR is an excellent idea. Just for a couple of weeks. It will allow you to hear exactly what they are talking about. It will either restore your trust in your wife, or alert you to problems in your marriage that need fixing. I don't see a downside to it.


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## Will_Kane

Here is a great example of how things begin posted by F-102.


Quote:
Originally Posted by F-102 
It may have gone something like this:

They first start catching up, and it's all "How you been doing? What have you been up to?"

Then it would have morphed into talk about:

What they've been doing since they parted
Their significant others since they parted
Their families
Their favorite music, movies, etc.
Their spouses
You
Your job
How your job keeps you away
How lonely she gets when you're away
How she looks forward to their conversations all the time now
How she loves talking to him
How she gets "bored" talking to you
How you don't always listen
How you're not "perfect"
How you can be so insensitive sometimes
How she wonders if she would have stayed with him
How he understands her
How he knows how to make her feel good
How you fail at this
How you are such an a**hole
How she feels young again
How she hasn't felt this happy with you in so long
How he's a better man than you'll ever be
How she wants to see him again
How they can meet under the radar
How she's thought of leaving you
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How he's her soul mate
How she made a big mistake leaving him
How she made an even bigger mistake marrying you
How they were meant to be together...

...get the picture?


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## PHTlump

vmails said:


> She even says if I dont like, she wont call.


Great! Problem solved. Tell her to stop talking to him.

However, she probably won't stop. The reason she is deleting her call history and locking her phone is because there is something to hide. So investigate.

I agree with the other posters about using a voice-activated recorder (VAR) hidden where she typically talks to him. But be prepared to learn the awful truth.

Also, don't run to her with the VAR if you find evidence of an affair. Talk to a lawyer first. Then come talk to us.

Good luck.


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## F-102

I was going to ask if he was just an old acquaintance, or was he an old flame/EXBF?

Then I was going to give my post about how innocent "catching up" with an old flame could very well transform into a full-blown affair and eventual divorce, but WillKane beat me to it!

Man, I never knew that it would be such a big hit!


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## F-102

But, for the sake of ranting, here is the original post. I wrote it for one poster whose W had reconnected with an EXBF on Facebook, and it could apply to you.

Right now, the texts/conversations may very well be innocent, but soon they may morph into:

Their lives since they parted
Their relationships since they parted
Their families 
Their spouses 
You 
How you're an excellent father
How you're a great husband
How you're a wonderful guy
Your job
How your job keeps you busy
How your job keeps you away
How she sometimes feels lonely when you're away
How she sometimes feels a little overburdened at home
How she sometimes feels a little taken for granted
How it seems you don't ALWAYS listen to her
How it seems you don't ALWAYS understand her
How sometimes it seems that you are "not there" for her
How...okay, you're not ALWAYS such a wonderful guy
How she loved hearing from him
How she loves talking to him again
How she looks forward to his texts/calls/e-mails now
How she feels young again
How she feels appreciated again
How she feels attractive again
How it's been so, so long since you made her feel that way
How her eyes have been opened
How she now realizes what she truly wants and needs
How she now realizes that you don't give her that 
How she now realizes that she "settled" for you
How insensitive you can be sometimes
How you can be a real jerk sometimes
How she wonders if they would have stayed together
How she now realizes that she never really loved you
How she now realizes that she really loved him all along
How she ever could have fallen in love with a jerk like you
How you're the biggest a**hole she's ever known
How you're standing in the way of her true happiness
How you ruined her life
How she made a big mistake marrying you
How she made an even bigger mistake letting him get away
How they were really meant to be together
How she desperately has to get away from you
How she's definitely going to leave you
How she's been talking to divorce lawyers
How they're going to live happily ever after...

...get the picture?


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## MattMatt

Get her to invite him and his wife/gf for a friendly drink. After all, new friendships are good; right? And your wife and her 'friend' wouldn't be thinking of cheating, would they?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

MattMatt said:


> Get her to invite him and his wife/gf for a friendly drink. After all, new friendships are good; right? And your wife and her 'friend' wouldn't be thinking of cheating, would they?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like it! But don't tell your wife who is really coming.


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## weightlifter

DO NOT LET ON ABOUT VARS!!!!

The problem is if he confronts now again she will deny again and she will know he is onto the phone. She will then buy a burner phone or start loading up her phone with cheater aps.. She will get good at it and we will have another RDMU...

OP, if you are still here, NEVER beg or tell her she is your everything even tho it is true. The other man is mr alpha strong and you then look beta weak.

Damn I hope hes already at Best Buy getting those Sony's. Time is of the essence to a huge degree.


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## barbados

vmails said:


> She has been deleting call logs, locked her phone with password etc. This made me suspicious and therefore I decided to check the phone bill.



Deleting call logs : Major Red Flag 

I would take her phone right in front of her, DEMAND, NOT ASK, for the password, and tell her if you don't get it immediately you will flush it down the toilet.

Then tell her you 2 are going to sit down at the computer TOGETHER, and you will get every password for any accounts (FB, email, etc) that she has and go through them NOW !

If she refuses, tell her to pack a bag and leave, and that you will file for D !

Why so harsh right off the bat ? Because 99% of the threads here start with the hidden phone crap, and they all end with the BS finding out about an EA/PA.


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## Hardtohandle

Vmails

It is obvious your shocked by the


Vmails said:


> I really hope for my love for her that I am getting unnecessarily suspicious


I feel they are having an Emotional Affair ATM and you caught it in time. Hopefully. 

The *EXTREMELY* hard part is your going to have to be *VERY TOUGH*. You cannot, cannot, cannot hope that your love for her or her love for you will fix this.

If you want to fix this, you will have to show your wife you are ready to destroy and dissolve this marriage. 

No If, ands or buts about it..

You have to come off like John Wayne and tell her this is what you want and this is how it is going to be or your done and SHE can leave. Don't fall for the we need time apart. If she tells you that, reply "You can have the rest of your life to be apart from me, take care." 

Again I know it is hard but trust me. I came here didn't listen and lost my wife and kids. I can't make it any more simple then that. I tell you as a *FAILURE* that if you wimp out and beg and cry and beg and cry. *YOU WILL LOOSE HER*. 

Come back here vent, talk about it. Get some close and trusting friends involved to help you out and talk about it. 

If you get your evidence and blow her up and him up and push her to the edge of divorce cliff really fast, she will be so shocked she won't know what to do. She will just crumble under your emotional assault. 

Lets assume he is married or dating and you find out your wife is looking to cheat. 

If in one day you could confront this mans wife or girlfriend and give her proof and then meet your wife and confront her and give her proof. Then if you gave her a card to a lawyer and a marriage counselor and tell her to choose. Then tell her family and friends. What happens next is her world within minutes will be so crazy and confused that she will be stumbling to try to get you to forgive her. 

This other man will be busy with his own issues of his wife or girlfriend that he won't have time to call your wife. Even if he does, your wife will be so scared that she won't even care about him calling because she has to deal with the disaster of you and her family and friends calling her wanting to know WTF is going on. 

Basically right then and there she will have to make a choice of you or him. Her embarrassment and shame will make her choose you. 

If by some crazy chance she chooses this man. Well guess what.. You just ended something that was going to end eventually in the next few weeks or months or years. 

I had 3 chances to leave my wife before Sept 25 2012 but I didn't. Instead I wasted 19 years and my wife tell me she was leaving ME after 19 years and 2 kids. So after 4 times she kicks me to the curb. Go figure. Don't be me..


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## weightlifter

He needs to get some evidence.

If hes in a no fault state. A couple days of VARS will be enough so he know what is going on and can assault her mentally with specific knowledge. Deny deny .. well we kissed.. well we groped.. well we fu(cked. Trickle truth. OP see above. You need to come on like RAMBO ON STEROIDS. If you cry in front of her... YOU LOSE...

If hes in a fault state he needs to start BUT ALSO CONSULT A LAWYER for fault specifics.


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## MattMatt

chapparal said:


> I like it! But don't tell your wife who is really coming.


Hah! Great! Takes it to the next level! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vmails

Thanks a lots for all the good replies. I surely wouldn't let her go, I know how to deal with her. Absolutely certain that she wouldn't mess up the relationship for Ex-whoever. But, unfortunately I do not know how to deal with my thoughts and anger. What ever she may be talking to him, I believe in her that it was harmless and would not repeat.. The problem is how to force my thoughts not to wander wild and speculate things like what the hell was the level of talks or why so many calls? Speculation mode prompts thoughts to wander and imagine them involved in physical relationship. I don't even know how to deal with MYSELF. As for her, I think she wouldn't do this again. Could you please suggest a remedy to deal with the logical or imaginary crap in my mind (Because, relationship is also overlooking shortcomings).

PS. I do not know if what I just wrote made any sense, probably explains the state of mind.


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## LetDownNTX

vmails said:


> Thanks a lots for all the good replies. I surely wouldn't let her go, I know how to deal with her. Absolutely certain that she wouldn't mess up the relationship for Ex-whoever. But, unfortunately I do not know how to deal with my thoughts and anger. What ever she may be talking to him, I believe in her that it was harmless and would not repeat.. The problem is how to force my thoughts not to wander wild and speculate things like what the hell was the level of talks or why so many calls? Speculation mode prompts thoughts to wander and imagine them involved in physical relationship. I don't even know how to deal with MYSELF. As for her, I think she wouldn't do this again. Could you please suggest a remedy to deal with the logical or imaginary crap in my mind (Because, relationship is also overlooking shortcomings).
> 
> PS. I do not know if what I just wrote made any sense, probably explains the state of mind.


So with all that said are you planning on trying to put a VAR in her car or are you just ok with it all and letting the thoughts ruin your life?


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## NatureDave

That is precisely why everyone is urging you to get a recorder and FIND OUT what they are talking about.

If you confront her now, you will only get the same excuses and rationalizations that EVERY wayward spews:

"We are just friends..."

"We are just talking about school..."

"It's nice to have a friend to talk to..."

"It means nothing...I can't believe you would even thing otherwise"

"I'll stop if you want me too..."

She will make all of this sound believable and entirely innocent, and you yourself will start doubting what you feel in your gut...that this is entirely inappropriate. Then you continue to wander what they talk about and where this is heading

But, your gut is right. This relationship IS inappropriate.

That is why you need to record their conversation. Then you will have proof that cannot be dismissed by your wife. You will KNOW just how inappropriate this relationship is. You can come down with the hammer and enforce dire consequences for any continued contact between them. You need to KNOW so that you can have an action plan.


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## azteca1986

vmails said:


> Could you please suggest a remedy to deal with the logical or imaginary crap in my mind (Because, relationship is also overlooking shortcomings).
> 
> PS. I do not know if what I just wrote made any sense, probably explains the state of mind.


The solution to not letting your imagination run away with you is to find out exactly what they are talking about.

The solution is the of installation of a VAR (Voice activated recorder). 

The four/five calls from her alone, password protection on her phone and, surprisingly, her asking you if you want her to stop calling are, when taken together are all reasons to be concerned (red flags).

Gather evidence as swiftly as you can so you know what you're dealing with. 

When do the calls take place? When you're present or when you are at work?


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## Soifon

The only way I know of to make the mental anguish you are experiencing stop is to get proof. If you put a VAR, check into her phone, FB, etc. and you find absolutely nothing going on that _will_ help put your mind at ease.

It's the darkness and not knowing that is killing you because your mind is running wild. Find out exactly what she is saying and you will have all of your answers.


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## weightlifter

Sigh.

Dude if you dont get a handle on this NOW you ARE GOING TO LOSE HER. She is lying. She will swear on her life, her parents life and even the lives of her children. WE HAVE ALL SEEN THIS BEFORE 100 TIMES! A woman swearing on the lives of her children is even to the point of an inside joke on these boards.

If her phone is still locked SHE IS STILL TALKING TO HIM. You need to kill this affair NOW. It MIGHT NOT BE TOO LATE. She might not have fu(ked him yet. The longer they talk the more likely they take it physical.


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## phillybeffandswiss

I always love the resentment ploy of "If YOU want me to stop blah blah." A spouse should want to stop, if it is reasonable, to protect the marriage.

An Ex, without kids of course, spouse, lover, ONS, partying single friend or others dangerous to the marriage you should stop contact with without question if asked.


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## tacoma

vmails said:


> Could you please suggest a remedy to deal with the logical or imaginary crap in my mind ......


Put a VAR in her car.


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## keko

vmails said:


> I know how to deal with her.


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## Hardtohandle

Who has the link to the newbie post ? 

Vmails your rug sweeping and down playing this. 

She locked her phone and deleted messages because they were discussing sex.. Those mental movies you had are exactly what they were planning on doing. They didn't need to go to dinner. This man didn't have to bother to court your wife and make an impression. They were going straight to the fvcking part.. 

Once you accept that as a reality, then you can figure out what to do.

You think your going to try to rationalize this with her.

Look honey, I love you. I don't know what I did wrong to make you feel this way, but we can work this out. I will spend more time with you. I will give you more attention..

Vmails Its very hard.. Trust me after 19 years it has been almost unbearable at times to deal with the pain. I felt I couldn't breathe, I couldn't live, I couldn't think, I just couldn't go on..

Vmails I can tell you I feel even more pain because your trying to a mountain into a mole hill. Your now trying to make this incident less then it really is. 

Vmails this is marriage cancer and you need to address this ASAP. This is all out war between YOU and this Other man and yes your wife.. There is no geneva convention in this war.. You bite, kick, scratch, lie and cheat to win.. This is a fight for your life and your marriage.. You need to man up and get tougher on this. Your wife needs to see a serious side of you that she has never seen before.

She needs to look at you and say Oh, sh1t, he isn't fvcking around. He is going to leave me over this. You need to make her ask YOU for forgiveness and beg you to fix this. You need to do whatever you have to to accomplish this. 

You need to say,give me that fvcking phone right now. Give me the password. If she says no, you toss her out of the house or tell her to get the fvck out. 

FIGHT Vmails, Fvcking FIGHT like you never have before.. 

If not you will most definitely be posting about how your wife was still seeing him while you were in Marriage Counseling for 4 months.

Many of here are either the betrayed spouse and there are several wayward spouses. Just about everyone here has gone to Therapy or Marriage counseling. We are from all over the country and the world. Your story is the same as everyone here. We all bring what we learned from Therapy sessions and Marriage counseling sessions here for those who are new. You literally have access to dozens, upon dozens tidbits of information given out by counselors throughout the world. We are not just a bunch of bitter men and women who want to see everyone else fail. 

We want to to succeed where many of failed..


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## Count of Monte Cristo

weightlifter said:


> Count, read your story. Any wimmin in the picture now? (hint you're supposed to say younger and hotter)/ end hijack


Weightlifter, there are currently no women in my life (although, I was propositioned by a nice lady three weeks ago.)

Right now, I'm enjoying being in control of MYSELF for the first time in my life. I have my own business and don't have to suck up to a boss (just customers), and I don't have to put the lid of the toilet seat down or watch 'Say Yes to the Dress' and other such nonsense.

I just turned 50 and me and my boy are halfway through our second round of P90X and I'm up to 20 pullups. I look 10-years younger and am in the best shape of my life.

I'll probably get back in the game and go on the prowl this summer.

Thanks for asking.


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## Vanguard

You're being cheated on. I'll bet you $500.00. This is so familiar it's sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ovid

This post is covered in so many red flags you can't see through them.

When my wife was having her A I caught on about 2 weeks in but told myself it couldn't be so. Finally it got so bad there was no way to deny it, and I went looking. I had all I needed in minutes. All I had to do was stop the denial and look. You are doing the same thing, only you have more to go on now than I did when I started looking. You need to check things out, or you will be here soon asking us how do you get her back.


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## weightlifter

Hard.. AWESOME post.

If we can just wake him up, depending on time frames, it might be only emotional.

How long ago did all this happen original poster?
Where are you geographically (Not an address. "Texas", "Czech republic" are good enough.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Vanguard said:


> You're being cheated on. I'll bet you $500.00. This is so familiar it's sad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's tempting to get a betting pool up and running. How much it will go underground with this methods? Jk


Vmails, you need to drop the vmail and put on some chainmail because you're going to battle.

If you do not nuke this DIRECTLY and eradicate it from the face of the earth it will go underground, like a c0ckroach from the rubble surviving the fall out. 

You need to use MULTIPLE VARS

Buy 3, one for the car and one for the house, and switch them interchangeably with your 3rd one so you can have them in place while you listen in.

You need to GPS her phone with find my phone apps.

You need to become inspector gadget and GOGO gadget kill EA/POSSIBLE PA ask for CLEAN UP !


There is something called CHEATER'S SCRIPT. Your wife is acting according to that script, its easy to predict her movements and actions.

You on the contrary and to your demise are acting to a BETRAYED SPOUSE SCRIPT, which is all too common and the wrong way to deal with things. The betrayed is always several steps, no, I rephrase several months behind the WS.

Hurry up and get your battle suit on because its going to get bloody.


----------



## tulsy

Hardtohandle said:


> ...
> 
> You need to say,give me that fvcking phone right now. Give me the password. If she says no, you toss her out of the house or tell her to get the fvck out. ...


Exactly. And tell her if she deletes any conversations between her any another man, you will assume it's cheating and that is strike 3, she's gone for good.

VAR now and grow a pair of balls. You aren't in the wrong here, you have every reason to be concerned. 

I would start texting other women when she is at home, see what she says and see how much she likes it.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

vmails said:


> Thanks a lots for all the good replies. I surely wouldn't let her go, I know how to deal with her. Absolutely certain that she wouldn't mess up the relationship for Ex-whoever. But, unfortunately I do not know how to deal with my thoughts and anger. What ever she may be talking to him,* I believe in her that it was harmless and would not repeat.. *The problem is how to force my thoughts not to wander wild and speculate things like what the hell was the level of talks or why so many calls? Speculation mode prompts thoughts to wander and imagine them involved in physical relationship. I don't even know how to deal with MYSELF. As for her, I think she wouldn't do this again. Could you please suggest a remedy to deal with the logical or imaginary crap in my mind (Because, relationship is also overlooking shortcomings).
> 
> PS. I do not know if what I just wrote made any sense, probably explains the state of mind.


So harmless that she needed to delete the texts. Of course you want that to make perfect sense.

Except it does not. That is why you are so upset. You want to believe her, but you don't. Listen to that and dig. That is the remedy. Finding out the truth is the only thing that will help you fix this.

If they are so harmless, she should have no issue with working to at least get the texts. Her reaction to that request will be telling.


----------



## vmails

Ok Folks, have heart. Its not a friend we are discussing here. She is a Family, like your own kids or parents. Sorry, strong statement here - will you "Leave" your kids if they take drugs or steel or whatever.. I would not. Will first show them whats wrong and then stand by them to overcome. Same with my wife. So Folks, Stop. As I said, I know how to deal with this. Trust me. Period. 

My original post was to know how to "Deal" with the thoughts and after effects of "What has happened".

With respect to all, let me quote an example. If I was a Painter, with this frame of mind what type of painting would you expect me to paint? Monalisa? I guess not. I guess I will use all ugly colors to paint all ugly faces. With this state of mind trust me I cant draw what I potentially can. To draw what I want, I have to have right frame of mind. 
Similarly, I know what to do to set things right with her, just that I am not in right frame of mind to Re-paint my life.


----------



## Acabado

vmails said:


> As I said, I know how to deal with this. Trust me. Period.


This contradicts...


> With respect to all, let me quote an example. If I was a Painter, with this frame of mind what type of painting would you expect me to paint? Monalisa? I guess not. I guess I will use all ugly colors to paint all ugly faces. With this state of mind trust me I cant draw what I potentially can. To draw what I want, I have to have right frame of mind.
> Similarly, I know what to do to set things right with her, just that I am not in right frame of mind to Re-paint my life.


Please, go low key and snoop.

We do know how to. BTDT.


----------



## carolinadreams

vmails said:


> Ok Folks, have heart. Its not a friend we are discussing here. She is a Family, like your own kids or parents. Sorry, strong statement here - will you "Leave" your kids if they take drugs or steel or whatever.. I would not. Will first show them whats wrong and then stand by them to overcome. Same with my wife. So Folks, Stop. As I said, I know how to deal with this. Trust me. Period.
> 
> My original post was to know how to "Deal" with the thoughts and after effects of "What has happened".
> 
> With respect to all, let me quote an example. If I was a Painter, with this frame of mind what type of painting would you expect me to paint? Monalisa? I guess not. I guess I will use all ugly colors to paint all ugly faces. With this state of mind trust me I cant draw what I potentially can. To draw what I want, I have to have right frame of mind.
> Similarly, I know what to do to set things right with her, just that I am not in right frame of mind to Re-paint my life.


People here are having a heart though it may not feel like. Once you've been through infidelity, and felt that pain most decent people would never stand by and watch another human experience it if they could help.

Stuff like this doesn't fix it itself, and you probably don't what to do, yet. No one's saying you aren't a good husband or incompetent - it's more like all of us were given the rulebook for checkers and it turns out life is chess. With the pace of life, the inter-connectedness of life thanks to the internet, facebook, cellphones, and the diminishment of self-restraint and the glorification of self-gratification - virtually every marriage is going to have some brush with infidelity unless extraordinary measures and precautions are taken!

Set your boundaries, explicitly, and clearly. The longer you wait and game around with this, the more chance you take that things will be done that can't be undone, and habits or patterns of deceit will be engrained. 

One of the men who was preying on my wife, was telling her I love you at the two week mark. Heterosexual men just don't get on the phone to chit-chat with old platonic friends for hours on end!


----------



## tacoma

vmails said:


> Ok Folks, have heart. Its not a friend we are discussing here. She is a Family, like your own kids or parents. Sorry, strong statement here - will you "Leave" your kids if they take drugs or steel or whatever.. I would not. Will first show them whats wrong and then stand by them to overcome. Same with my wife. So Folks, Stop. As I said, I know how to deal with this. Trust me. Period.
> 
> My original post was to know how to "Deal" with the thoughts and after effects of "What has happened".
> 
> With respect to all, let me quote an example. If I was a Painter, with this frame of mind what type of painting would you expect me to paint? Monalisa? I guess not. I guess I will use all ugly colors to paint all ugly faces. With this state of mind trust me I cant draw what I potentially can. To draw what I want, I have to have right frame of mind.
> Similarly, I know what to do to set things right with her, just that I am not in right frame of mind to Re-paint my life.



You're screwed.


----------



## just got it 55

OH BOY !!!! He's just not seeing it

Your not dealing with your wife any more. She has changed to someone you do not yet understand/know

Sure hope you will get a grasp on that. But I hope you are right.
Keep posting .Nobody here will be saying" I TOLD YOU SO " If they do they are not here to help.

Please listen to the voice of experiance


----------



## LongRoadtoRuin

If she honestly loves you and is not cheating she would have squelched those feeling of suspicion before you needed to seek advice here.


----------



## carolinadreams

Looking at most of the posts here, you will see that most peoples sense of suspicion ended up being validated and grounded in some reality.

If you are asking how to rugsweep, or how to cope with feelings of betrayal without dealing with the root causes - you are asking in how to engage in self delusion.


----------



## Toffer

vmail,

You should do some more reading here in other posts. You'll see your story repeated time and time again and you'll see what happened to posters who choose to stick their head in the sand like you seem to want to do

LISTEN to these people! Not only have a lot of them heard this stuff before, they LIVED it.

Sure, it's possible that your wife isn't doing anything inapropproriate at this point. Possible but not likely. I would guess than in 85 - 90% of cases like yours here, they turn out to be emotional affairs at least.

Read and learn before it's too late!


----------



## Acabado

She has flaws and vulneravilities as any other human being. You love her, trust her. You have her in a pedestal. It's normal. You are having a hard time detaching a little from your own situation. You are a victim of the truth bias. We all fall into this at a certain capacity. You can't believe she can be devious. She's already being.

She's not special, different. She's displaying all the symptoms of an active wayward.

Edited
Corrected wrong link


----------



## Ovid

I have a crystal ball and am going to predict your future 
(actually we have all seen this so many times everyone here knows exactly what is about to happen)

You are going to try and "nice your W out of the A. She will lose all respect for you and the A will continue and only get worse. She will eventually leave you, or so completely disrespect you that you will leave her. 

The A will eventually blow up and she will try to come back to her plan B (you) but you will be too damaged from the A and your M will be over.

When it's all said and done you will be left with the knowledge that you could have saved the M if you took the advice on this forum, but you thought you knew better and your M was better and your W was better, but none of that was true.

She will be left knowing she ruined the M and will blame you for not fighting for her. She will remember you as a loving coward.

Good luck to you, but if you don't buckle up and fight you are going to be another poster in the going through D section.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

:banghead:

Why did you even bother to post on a coping with infidelity site if you weren't concerned?

Deep down you know what we're saying is true but you're either too scared to take the necessary corrective actions, or you're in some serious denial (no, not the river that Moses parted.)

We're not attacking you personally. We really want to help you. But at the rate that you're going, your marriage will be over and you won't even know it.

Right now your wife (or the woman that you knew as your wife) is bonding with another man. Yes, that's right - SHE IS BONDING WITH ANOTHER MAN.

Very soon, she'll want to have sex with him. Trust me, she has already done so in her mind. First the thought and then the act - and that's a fact!

If all you wanted was advice on how to stop having the thoughts that you're having, why not post on the Oprah.com or DrPhil.com sites?

Good luck. (You're going to need it.)


----------



## tom67

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :banghead:
> 
> Why did you even bother to post on a coping with infidelity site if you weren't concerned?
> 
> Deep down you know what we're saying is true but you're either too scared to take the necessary corrective actions, or you're in some serious denial (no, not the river that Moses parted.)
> 
> We're not attacking you personally. We really want to help you. But at the rate that you're going, your marriage will be over and you won't even know it.
> 
> Right now your wife (or the woman that you knew as your wife) is bonding with another man. Yes, that's right - SHE IS BONDING WITH ANOTHER MAN.
> 
> Very soon, she'll want to have sex with him. Trust me, she has already done so in her mind. First the thought and then the act - and that's a fact!
> 
> If all you wanted was advice on how to stop having the thoughts that you're having, why not post on the Oprah.com or DrPhil.com sites?
> 
> Good luck. (You're going to need it.)


:iagree::iagree:Get the sony vars in the car and house now.


----------



## vmails

Acabado said:


> She has flaws and vulneravilities as any other human being. You love her, trust her. You have her in a pedestal. It's normal. You are having a hard time detaching a little from your own situation. You are a victim of the truth bias. We all fall into this at a certain capacity. You can't believe she can be devious. She's already being.
> 
> She's not special, different. She's displaying all the symptoms of an active wayward.


Thats what it is, So true each word of what you just said. Including the last sentence. Yes, I know this and thats why I am shattered. Having said that, this "Active wayward" wife


> deserves a fair chance to mend things, I thought I must help her do just that


. Otherwise, we would have lost all lives as they call in video games and would be Game over.


----------



## Dday

vmails said:


> Ok Folks, have heart. Its not a friend we are discussing here. She is a Family, like your own kids or parents. Sorry, strong statement here - will you "Leave" your kids if they take drugs or steel or whatever.. I would not. Will first show them whats wrong and then stand by them to overcome. Same with my wife. So Folks, Stop. As I said, I know how to deal with this. Trust me. Period.
> 
> My original post was to know how to "Deal" with the thoughts and after effects of "What has happened".
> 
> With respect to all, let me quote an example. If I was a Painter, with this frame of mind what type of painting would you expect me to paint? Monalisa? I guess not. I guess I will use all ugly colors to paint all ugly faces. With this state of mind trust me I cant draw what I potentially can. To draw what I want, I have to have right frame of mind.
> Similarly, I know what to do to set things right with her, just that I am not in right frame of mind to Re-paint my life.


I am not here to tell you what to do. All I can say is be vigilant, read my thread to see where I am coming from. My wife/girlfriend of 15 years had a 9 month affair. We had a good marriage, 3 kids and I thought I knew her better than anyone. WRONG! We are trying to reconcile but do not let this go any farther. 

I told my wife what I wasn't comfortable with and told her to stop certain things. She just lied more and said it stopped and it became nearly impossible to figure out. 

This may have been a wake up call for her but I would look real close at your relationship.


----------



## vmails

Thanks all, may be after a couple of hours, my mind will be more organized to do this simple calculation. Thanks Every one.. God, why??


----------



## Cubby

Acabado said:


> She has flaws and vulneravilities as any other human being. You love her, trust her. You have her in a pedestal. It's normal. You are having a hard time detaching a little from your own situation. You are a victim of the truth bias. We all fall into this at a certain capacity. You can't believe she can be devious. She's already being.
> 
> She's not special, different. She's displaying all the symptoms of an active wayward.


:iagree: I'll never forget that wake-up moment when I realized that my wife, who I always trusted and adored, could be capable of deviousness. A true red pill moment.

Edit: Vmails- Even though you think you know your wife, you really don't. At least you don't know what she's capable of given certain opportunities and circumstances.


----------



## oregonmom

Vmails,

I understand where you are coming from, that you think you know best on how to deal with your wife. 

I am almost 14 months out from D-day. I too thought I knew how best to deal with my WH. He is a drug addict, the A was about drugs, I figured my situation was different. It is, to a certain extent. My big mistake was looking at the differences instead of the similarities. There are hundreds of similarities, only a few differences. 

You ask how to deal, how to see your wife in a better light again. I am telling you from experience you will not be able to until you find the truth. Even if you bury those feelings deep they will still always be there. The truth is the only thing that will really set you free. I have been working non stop to get myself better, and I am now at an impass. I cannot move on and forgive until I know the truth. Right now I would be forgiving secrets and lies and that is not healthy in a marriage or for yourself. I am telling you this because I don't want you to follow the same path. 

I know some advice sounds harsh. Everyone here means well and have been where you are at. Similarities, not differences.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Vmail,

If all that you are bothered about is dealing without anger, get into counseling.

Guys here are advising that you should gather more evidences becos you would need evidences for confronting. Now that you think you don't have suspicion, what is your issue?

If you think your wife is just fine, why is she deleting call history?

So wake up.


----------



## oregonmom

I will also say this.

My WH was chatting on FB with his high school gf about a year before he started his physical affair with a different woman. I did not know much about emotional affairs, and I pretty much let him off the hook without any consequences. 

I think this greatly contributed to him not even thinking twice about entering a PA. Nip it now or the behaviors will continue.


----------



## donny64

vmails said:


> Ok Folks, have heart. Its not a friend we are discussing here. She is a Family, like your own kids or parents. Sorry, strong statement here - will you "Leave" your kids if they take drugs or steel or whatever.. I would not. Will first show them whats wrong and then stand by them to overcome. Same with my wife. So Folks, Stop. As I said, I know how to deal with this. Trust me. Period.
> 
> My original post was to know how to "Deal" with the thoughts and after effects of "What has happened".
> 
> With respect to all, let me quote an example. If I was a Painter, with this frame of mind what type of painting would you expect me to paint? Monalisa? I guess not. I guess I will use all ugly colors to paint all ugly faces. With this state of mind trust me I cant draw what I potentially can. To draw what I want, I have to have right frame of mind.
> Similarly, I know what to do to set things right with her, just that I am not in right frame of mind to Re-paint my life.


The advice you're getting IS "HOW TO DEAL WITH THE AFTER EFFECTS". 

If:

You do not get proof of exactly what has transpired, she will not tell you.

You do not get proof of exactly what happened, the "mind movies" will haunt you (and your relationship) forever.

You do not have the info you need to get her to come completely clean, she will know she got one over on you. And will not respect you.

You do not find out what is going on in this affair and BLOW IT THE PHUCK UP, it will continue.

You do not blow up her world by showing her you will never tolerate this, she will lose any respect for you that remains. It will happen again because she wants to phuck someone she can respect and be attracted to.

You do not fight for YOURSELF by showing her you will kick her to the curb for such a terrible betrayal, she will not respect you. She will look to phuck someone she can respect.

You do not do any of the above, you will never be able to again trust her, and she'll have little reason, motivation or desire to earn your trust back (beyond the trust she needs so you won't interfere in her affairs).

----------------

You say you don't want to re-paint your life. I've got a bit of bad news for you...the painting of your life as it exists now is on rotten, mildewed canvas. Unless the canvas under this "painting" is fixed, it will eventually bleed through the painting, and crumple away to nothing but a big pile of colored crap.

Hundreds here have been through this before. Your mindset, wanting to rugsweep this, wanting to reconcile and for the "problem" to just go away so you can resume your life, and the way you're dealing with this ends disasterously for the betrayed spouse nearly EVERY....SINGLE....TIME!

Nobody is saying you can't reconcile and take her back at some point. What they're saying is you need to know exactly what you're dealing with if you have a hope to move on from it (again, she will NOT volunteer this), and then you have to show her you will not tolerate it. This is done by cutting her loose (throwing her out / leaving / seperation / divorce papers, etc). If you reconcile, it is because she comes, as I say, crawling back to you on worn and bloodied hands and knees, begging, crying and blowing snot bubbles. True fear, pain, remorse and true regret. She can't feel any of those if there are no consequences and you rugsweep this chit for her. And unless you make her feel that and show her you will stand up for yourself AND YOUR CHILDREN by demanding a faithful wife who is fully committed to a loving, faithful, honest family, and not tolerating less....well, again, she will look for the attraction and respect of someone out there who is not you.

It's cruel. It's hard. But it is just the way it is. She's already following the script to a "T". What the hell makes you think she's going to be ANY DIFFERENT than the hundreds / thousands here who have come before her?


----------



## jaded0731

oregonmom said:


> I will also say this.
> 
> My WH was chatting on FB with his high school gf about a year before he started his physical affair with a different woman. I did not know much about emotional affairs, and I pretty much let him off the hook without any consequences.
> 
> I think this greatly contributed to him not even thinking twice about entering a PA. Nip it now or the behaviors will continue.


+1

Denial is a very powerful thing. 
2007- caught my H exchanging emails w/ex wife, complimenting her on her boob job - says he is sorry, it will never happen again.
2009- H chatting on FB with multiple ex gf.. heavy flirting. I rationalize that he is just a flirt... he will never cheat.
Nov 2012 - H sends Christmas gift to unknown woman via Amazon - I think it is just something he is donating to a charitable cause
Dec 2012 - find text messages confirming affair with woman above

My father cheated on my mother and left our family. My husband knew this, and always in my mind was "He knows this is the one thing that would absolutely destroy me.. he will never hurt me in this way". We think we know people. We want so badly to give the benefit of the doubt to those we love. Please do not be as naive as I was.. do something about this ASAP.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

AngryandUsed said:


> Vmail,
> 
> If all that you are bothered about is dealing without anger, get into counseling.
> 
> Guys here are advising that you should gather more evidences becos you would need evidences for confronting. Now that you think you don't have suspicion, what is your issue?
> 
> If you think your wife is just fine, why is she deleting call history?
> 
> So wake up.


Actually, it seems to me that evidence gathering will absolutely address his issues. He very clearly asked for help in dealing with the "what ifs" involved in the texts and conversations. Digging helps do that. Recovering texts lets him see what really was said. This absolutely addresses his issues.

That it also might develop more evidence about what really is going on is merely a useful side-effect.


----------



## tulsy

vmails said:


> Thanks all, may be after a couple of hours, my mind will be more organized to do this simple calculation. Thanks Every one.. God, why??


Ya, maybe in a few hours you'll have come up with more analogy's (like the painter and the video gamer you describe :scratchhead to explain away why your wife's actions are totally innocent and how you know she could never do something like this, and how you trust her, etc....or you could face it head-on, because she's already doing it.

Maybe you'll be ready to accept that there really is something wrong with her talking to this OM, it's not normal married woman behavior, and it's time to man the eff up.

It's time to verify WTF to really going on with her and OM, and end it. If you wait, you are just screwing yourself.

Believe it or not, everyone here is rooting for you.


----------



## WasDecimated

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> In my case,
> 
> (FACEBOOK + OLD FLAME) * 2YEAR EA/PA = DIVORCE
> 
> Your marriage is in deep trouble.


I'm with the Count. This is exactly what happened to me...exactly!

I made the mistake of thinking my ex could never do such a thing. Damn...was I wrong! I tried the patient understanding approach and what did I get? I was used like a door mat and a walking ATM. She took it underground and turned her EA into a PA right under my nose. I went on for close to 2 years...that I know of.

I sucks to read these stories and watch the poor BH make all of the wrong moves thinking he is saving his marriage.

You say you know how to handle this??? I sure hope so because you have probably not had to deal with anything like this before. I thought I knew what to do as well. It worked so well that now I'm a divorced father with 3 kids. Some of the things you should be doing right now will seem counter-intuitive to you because you have never been in this situation. You shouldn't rely on your old methods of thinking to get you through this.

Please take the advice from these battle-hardened veterans. They know what they're talking about....they've all heard your story before, lived it, survived it and came out the other side...one way or another. Every step you take from here on is critical. You can't afford to make any mistakes at this point or you will end up like me. If I would have followed the advice I was given in the first place I very well could be still married.

Oh...btw, I used a GPS tracker on XWW's car...worked like a charm. In your case a VAR would might be better since it seems to be a lot of phone conversations.


----------



## mablenc

Vmails,

You can't fix something if you don't know what's wrong, please listen to the advice here, I know it's a lot to take in and it's painful. But, many of us did not listen, confronted too soon, or got gas lighted. Many of us won't know the whole truth, just what our spouses acknowledge and it's not much. Then, it's very hard to fix your marriage. I know it's hard but, you need to find out, otherwise it will only get worse and drive you crazy, mess with your self esteem, and you will become depressed. 

I do wish you luck,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

vmails said:


> Thats what it is, So true each word of what you just said. Including the last sentence. Yes, I know this and thats why I am shattered. Having said that, this "Active wayward" wife . Otherwise, we would have lost all lives as they call in video games and would be Game over.


See, my car has trouble with its transmission. Can I fix it by replacing the tire ?

To fix the situation, you need to know what exactly is going on between them. The nature of relationship between them. Even if it means you have to snopp on her.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Go read fredmilla's thread. He did the same thing as you. He dictated how HE wanted to handle things, got angry, people were temp banned, he handled it his own way..........


and he is right where everyone said he would be in the end.

I should change that to "was" because recently, IMO, his anger got him a deserved temp ban. 

Look, you are going to hear things you don't like, but people are trying to help you.


----------



## Chaparral

The thing is, you asked for something specific from the forum. Folks that have been there, done that. Many had the the same view that you have. Some posters have mentioned hundreds of threads. Well, it isn't hundreds, its thousands, several times over. I've seen a couple of thousand in less than two years.

In any event, what you asked for is exactly what you are getting. You have to find out what is really going on before you can fix it, if possible, and then get over it.

If you think what you are doing is going to work let me tell you it hasn't worked for anyone here in two years.

At least take this advice and start reading up on the emotional threads. Fyi, there are folks here that havd lost their families to people two thosand miles away that their sposes had never met. Exes and friends texting regularly to your wife are deadly poison to your marriage. 

Actually, from what I have seen, if you follow your course, I see no hope for you. If you follow the best advice here you may have a 50/50 chance.

The first thing you need to do is download or next day deliver the book, NOT JUST FRIENDS by Shirley Glass at amazon.com.. This is the definitive work on infidelity and its remedy. 

Unless it has already gone physical, the q uantity of texts point to that, neither your wife nor you no what is going on or the devestation ahead.


----------



## ParanoidDeeply

I am so sorry!! I found out my husband was calling another woman numerous times after I found naked pictures of her on his phone that her husband sent him. Supposedly they were friends too. We have since then took a hard look at our marriage and have worked hard to reconcile. It has changed us for the better. However I will tell you it has been the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with. I lost 20 lbs the first month, exhausted and miserable. You really are not you at this moment. Please listen to these people investigate before you talk to her because if you don't you will always wander how far it went if you should decide to reconcile. It's been a year and I still have bad days. That was the hardest part for me I really thought our marriage was on track. I was a fool that time but there won't be a second. I hope this trauma doesn't cause you to doubt the incredible person you are. Take one day at the time.


----------



## Entropy3000

vmails said:


> Ok Folks, have heart. Its not a friend we are discussing here. She is a Family, like your own kids or parents. Sorry, strong statement here - will you "Leave" your kids if they take drugs or steel or whatever.. I would not. Will first show them whats wrong and then stand by them to overcome. Same with my wife. So Folks, Stop. As I said, I know how to deal with this. Trust me. Period.
> 
> My original post was to know how to "Deal" with the thoughts and after effects of "What has happened".
> 
> With respect to all, let me quote an example. If I was a Painter, with this frame of mind what type of painting would you expect me to paint? Monalisa? I guess not. I guess I will use all ugly colors to paint all ugly faces. With this state of mind trust me I cant draw what I potentially can. To draw what I want, I have to have right frame of mind.
> Similarly, I know what to do to set things right with her, just that I am not in right frame of mind to Re-paint my life.


You are not serious my friend. Why would you post here if you just want to ignore what is needed to do?

You needed to tell her to go immediate NC with this guy. Period. Then you needed to monitor her behavior as was suggested to you. You want to know how to not be upset? Really? You should be upset. You should be c0ckblocking. No one here can tell you how to be happy watching a train wreck you can stop from happening. Your inaction is enabling this.

Affairs are addictions. If you have a child hooked on serious drugs you do not watch and hope they stop.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Let see

I caught my wife searching some guy on the internet one month or so before we were married. 

I personally spent 25k on the wedding. Now understand very clear. when I say I personally, I mean ME.. Not her.. Not her family.. ME.. I saved 25k for our wedding. 

She cried and I sucked it up at that time I thought WTF am I going to do. I made myself believe she never met him. 

About 2 years later after our first son was 1 years old. I caught her trying to hook up with the I.T. guy from the brotherhood of sisters of saint joseph of boston. He was basically gonna fly in and fvck her in a motel room 1 week before our wedding anniversary. I even found the cloths she was going to wear to meet him.

We did some crappy counseling and just rug swept it. 

About 7 years ago I caught her emailing her old boyfriend that she went out with before me. Longstory short he was a drug addict that is now a drug counselor in Florida. 

So I guess I have been lucky that I caught her having or trying to have 3 Emotional Affairs but nothing physical.

This time I snapped. We went to a very good therapist / MC. As a friend said to me, He felt we came out of that episode much stronger. I felt it too. We connected much better after that.

Fast forward to Sept 25, 2012. I caught my wife having an Affair both EA and PA. She lied about trying to work it out. 

BTW we have 2 kids now. 13 and 8.

On Dec 30, 2012 I caught her buying the Other man a Xmas present. I had to grill her though to get her to confess. Nothing ever came straight out.

Today we are almost done with the divorce. 

19 years ( 5 years dating, 3 years before engagement, 2 years of putting her through college and paying for it. 14 years of marriage ) down the fvcking tubes except for 2 great kids.

End result I had 3 chances to run and on the 4th my wife kicks ME to the curb.. 

Mind you I spent THOUSANDS on Marriage Counseling and Therapy sessions. From Sept to Dec 2012 alone I spent over 3k. 

Vmails trust me when I say my wife had the world by the ba11s.. She barely worked at 12 hours a week, She never cleaned. She only washed cloths and cooked 4 to 5x a week. When she got bored with buying stuff all day she had to fill her heart with fvcking someone else. 

I never abused or beat or did anything to my wife. The sun rose and set on her.. She was my goddess. I would have leveled this earth of everyone and everything at her command. I had sex 2 to 3 times a week. 

Now I don't even exist to her after 19 years.. Take the hours to read my story in my signature. Its at least good for some laughs.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Hardtohandle said:


> Let see
> 
> I caught my wife searching some guy on the internet one month or so before we were married.
> 
> I personally spent 25k on the wedding. Now understand very clear. when I say I personally, I mean ME.. Not her.. Not her family.. ME.. I saved 25k for our wedding.
> 
> She cried and I sucked it up at that time I thought WTF am I going to do. I made myself believe she never met him.
> 
> About 2 years later after our first son was 1 years old. I caught her trying to hook up with the I.T. guy from the brotherhood of sisters of saint joseph of boston. He was basically gonna fly in and fvck her in a motel room 1 week before our wedding anniversary. I even found the cloths she was going to wear to meet him.
> 
> We did some crappy counseling and just rug swept it.
> 
> About 7 years ago I caught her emailing her old boyfriend that she went out with before me. Longstory short he was a drug addict that is now a drug counselor in Florida.
> 
> So I guess I have been lucky that I caught her having or trying to have 3 Emotional Affairs but nothing physical.
> 
> This time I snapped. We went to a very good therapist / MC. As a friend said to me, He felt we came out of that episode much stronger. I felt it too. We connected much better after that.
> 
> Fast forward to Sept 25, 2012. I caught my wife having an Affair both EA and PA. She lied about trying to work it out.
> 
> BTW we have 2 kids now. 13 and 8.
> 
> On Dec 30, 2012 I caught her buying the Other man a Xmas present. I had to grill her though to get her to confess. Nothing ever came straight out.
> 
> Today we are almost done with the divorce.
> 
> 19 years ( 5 years dating, 3 years before engagement, 2 years of putting her through college and paying for it. 14 years of marriage ) down the fvcking tubes except for 2 great kids.
> 
> End result I had 3 chances to run and on the 4th my wife kicks ME to the curb..
> 
> Mind you I spent THOUSANDS on Marriage Counseling and Therapy sessions. From Sept to Dec 2012 alone I spent over 3k.
> 
> Vmails trust me when I say my wife had the world by the ba11s.. She barely worked at 12 hours a week, She never cleaned. She only washed cloths and cooked 4 to 5x a week. When she got bored with buying stuff all day she had to fill her heart with fvcking someone else.
> 
> I never abused or beat or did anything to my wife. The sun rose and set on her.. She was my goddess. I would have leveled this earth of everyone and everything at her command. I had sex 2 to 3 times a week.
> 
> Now I don't even exist to her after 19 years.. Take the hours to read my story in my signature. Its at least good for some laughs.


We can say hindsight is 20/20 but if only you would thought out that scenario with what you know now. Sure some may say, "well then my children wouldn't x y z a b c" but sometimes we see our life and justify errors with what comes after the fact. Honestly, knowing what you know now you know you would have done better for yourself as anyone would.

19 years is a long time and I feel for you. 


This thread kind of reminds me of a BS that refused to gather evidence and said it will fix itself or something of the sort of "I can love her more than her affair parther"....

If anything cheaters love having more love/attention/sacrifice from both/all parties.

Bring in the 'love'.


----------



## johnnycomelately

These posts are so depressing. Are we humans really so sad and predictable? There seem to be so few variations to the script that it makes it hard to think of ourselves as self-determining individuals.

Vmails, I strongly suggest that you open your eyes and take the advice given here. Now! 

It is given in good faith and for your benefit.


----------



## vmails

Thanks Folks, its very rare one finds so many wonderful people showing genuine concern and extending genuine help. 

What I have learned through this forum is what is "Emotional Affair", and how it is insanely more dangerous than Physical affair. Yes, I was trying to underplay the situation within my own mind. Yes again, this situation was a ticking time-bomb waiting to explode sooner or later. 

So, yes there was a clear problem which was somewhat underplayed by me because of love factor and also to some extent I frankly did not know what was "Emotional Affair".

As I said earlier, I did not want more proof, I had enough for me to take a call. So, here is what I have done - two options : 

1) This Marriage or the other man, else Sign the papers 

2) If This Marriage, two options again -
a) Invite the OM and his wife for Dinner the same day and I will announce whats was going on to OM's wife.
b) Else, I storm OM's house and update her about her Husbands Affair

Sorries, tears, She spoke to the sister, who got involved to retrieve the situation..

In the end, I am sure I have resolved the issue. Also, I know if this repeats in future, there is no future for this relationship anyways. 
I will be more alert and possibly even small gestures from her side may sound warning alarms.

I would humbly like to say this - in marriage two people tend to take things for granted (Same has happened to us). 
Secondly, OM will be always Mr-Know-all-So-Sweet-Nice-Guy (All guys are when we it comes to wooing a lady). Unfortunately, all wifes get exposed to the downsides of Husbands after marriage. So, no surprises here who had clear advantage here...

Thus, was the time to take the bull by horn.. 

Going ahead, both of us have to realign to new realities and work more towards relationship building (Yes, including myself). Lastly, its still work in progress, may take us weeks, months or even years to come terms with this, but I will do what ever to ensure this will work. 

Sincerely, I want to thank all for all your help, A big Thanks...


----------



## warlock07

So you decided not expose the OM? Did she confess to anything more ?


----------



## Kasler

Ain't a snowball's chance in hell you're out of the woods yet. 

Vmails, you just begun the war with no defined end. 

You gonna have to snoop, and get VARs cause she ain't gonna go quietly. I know you'd like to think the situation is all tied up with a pretty bow, but from the way you confronted and gave her no consequences or demands, she is definitely gonna try to go underground with this. 

You need to be ready, cause its easiest to catch them before they too get experienced and sneaky at it. She won't be locking her phone and just denying. She could get up to the prepaid cell phone held outside the home level.

Listen to what people say. It may sound over the top and like something out of a movie, but a 100 recorded strapped under a car seat held up by velcro can give you the answers to all your questions.


----------



## happyman64

Hardtohandle said:


> Let see
> 
> I caught my wife searching some guy on the internet one month or so before we were married.
> 
> I personally spent 25k on the wedding. Now understand very clear. when I say I personally, I mean ME.. Not her.. Not her family.. ME.. I saved 25k for our wedding.
> 
> She cried and I sucked it up at that time I thought WTF am I going to do. I made myself believe she never met him.
> 
> About 2 years later after our first son was 1 years old. I caught her trying to hook up with the I.T. guy from the brotherhood of sisters of saint joseph of boston. He was basically gonna fly in and fvck her in a motel room 1 week before our wedding anniversary. I even found the cloths she was going to wear to meet him.
> 
> We did some crappy counseling and just rug swept it.
> 
> About 7 years ago I caught her emailing her old boyfriend that she went out with before me. Longstory short he was a drug addict that is now a drug counselor in Florida.
> 
> So I guess I have been lucky that I caught her having or trying to have 3 Emotional Affairs but nothing physical.
> 
> This time I snapped. We went to a very good therapist / MC. As a friend said to me, He felt we came out of that episode much stronger. I felt it too. We connected much better after that.
> 
> Fast forward to Sept 25, 2012. I caught my wife having an Affair both EA and PA. She lied about trying to work it out.
> 
> BTW we have 2 kids now. 13 and 8.
> 
> On Dec 30, 2012 I caught her buying the Other man a Xmas present. I had to grill her though to get her to confess. Nothing ever came straight out.
> 
> Today we are almost done with the divorce.
> 
> 19 years ( 5 years dating, 3 years before engagement, 2 years of putting her through college and paying for it. 14 years of marriage ) down the fvcking tubes except for 2 great kids.
> 
> End result I had 3 chances to run and on the 4th my wife kicks ME to the curb..
> 
> Mind you I spent THOUSANDS on Marriage Counseling and Therapy sessions. From Sept to Dec 2012 alone I spent over 3k.
> 
> Vmails trust me when I say my wife had the world by the ba11s.. She barely worked at 12 hours a week, She never cleaned. She only washed cloths and cooked 4 to 5x a week. When she got bored with buying stuff all day she had to fill her heart with fvcking someone else.
> 
> I never abused or beat or did anything to my wife. The sun rose and set on her.. She was my goddess. I would have leveled this earth of everyone and everything at her command. I had sex 2 to 3 times a week.
> 
> Now I don't even exist to her after 19 years.. Take the hours to read my story in my signature. Its at least good for some laughs.


H2H
No one will laugh at your story.
No one.

HM64


----------



## happyman64

Vmail

Good job confronting your wife.

But you only went 1/2 way.

Call his wife and let her know what her crappy husband was doing.

Take the OM out of the picture.

And let his wife be his warden like he deserves.

Do not tell your wife you are doing this.

In the long run your wife will respect you and look at you as a man who took control and finished his business.

HM64'


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

happyman64 said:


> Vmail
> 
> Good job confronting your wife.
> 
> But you only went 1/2 way.
> 
> Call his wife and let her know what her crappy husband was doing.
> 
> Take the OM out of the picture.
> 
> And let his wife be his warden like he deserves.
> 
> Do not tell your wife you are doing this.
> 
> In the long run your wife will respect you and look at you as a man who took control and finished his business.
> 
> HM64'


Yes Vmail, you don't want to let you wife know that your are going to tell the OM's wife. I know you want to see the look on his face when you explain to his wife what's been going on.

My guess is your wife will not want to go along with this, or if she does, she'll inform the OM ahead of time to be prepared. Though it would be satisfying to expose to the OMW this way, I doubt it'll go as planned and you'd probably regret doing it.


----------



## Kasler

What happened to H2H is the harsh reality I really wish didn't exist. 

A lot of people think by showing forgiveness and grace to a cheater they will come around. Even after multiple times. But the sad truth is, and while this doesn't happen to all couples of course, after all the DDays, all the mind movies, all the counseling, all forgiveness, YOU end up being the one dropped. And if your a man and it really has been decades you're gonna get the proverbial haymaker of a legal gouging in divorce proceedings. Money hers, kids hers, house/car hers, debt yours or most of it, and thats not counting alimony. 

The horror stories have made many a man adamant on the necessity of a prenup/postnup. 

It can definitely happen, all they have to do is find the right OM and your decades long relationship can be reduced to sh!t. 

So vmails, think long and hard about what you need to do.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

vmails said:


> . Otherwise, we would have lost all lives as they call in video games and would be Game over.


Well, let's use a better video game analogy.

Sometimes there is a glitch in the program, code or save point. Even a patch doesn't fix the corruption. So, there are times where you have to replay the entire game, checkpoint or level to get it correct.

In other words, you hit the reset button and start over. Next time, you know where the trouble occurs and you are already prepared.


----------



## vmails

Update here, I have threatened ending marriage. Even have been avoiding her completely since last few days and have been behaving in very nasty manner by my own standards. Have noticed that her contact with the other man has stopped except "Group Whatsapp messages". She claims that she was not involved in any affair with the other man, it was just friendly and she now realizes it was inappropriate. However, it was her birthday two days back and i discovered that she called guy shortly after i left for office. I confronted her, she said other friends told her that this guy was reluctant calling her on her birthday, so she called and also she sees no harm in maintaining friendly relation with this man in "Group Social Occasions". 
One thing is for sure, she hasnt cut off communication with him completely ("whatsapp Group Message"). What do you think?


----------



## Kasler

I think she is full of sh!t and doing exactly what we said she would, keeping in contact. No contact mean ZERO contact at all. time for consequences, and time to show her what kind of man you are. All waywards do this. They test the boundaries and see what they can get away with.


----------



## HappyHubby

what was with all the tears and apologies if it was all so innocent?

What was she saying sorry for? 

She's into this guy and you need to proceed with divorce in order to shake up her reality.

This is your BEST bet for saving the marriage. At the very least she is disrespecting you by breaking the boundaries you set with this guy...


----------



## oregonmom

vmails said:


> Thanks Folks, its very rare one finds so many wonderful people showing genuine concern and extending genuine help.
> 
> What I have learned through this forum is what is "Emotional Affair", and how it is insanely more dangerous than Physical affair. Yes, I was trying to underplay the situation within my own mind. Yes again, this situation was a ticking time-bomb waiting to explode sooner or later.
> 
> So, yes there was a clear problem which was somewhat underplayed by me because of love factor and also to some extent I frankly did not know what was "Emotional Affair".
> 
> As I said earlier, I did not want more proof, I had enough for me to take a call. So, here is what I have done - two options :
> 
> *1) This Marriage or the other man, else Sign the papers *
> 
> 2) If This Marriage, two options again -
> a) Invite the OM and his wife for Dinner the same day and I will announce whats was going on to OM's wife.
> b) Else, I storm OM's house and update her about her Husbands Affair
> 
> Sorries, tears, She spoke to the sister, who got involved to retrieve the situation..
> 
> In the end, I am sure I have resolved the issue.* Also, I know if this repeats in future, there is no future for this relationship anyways. *
> I will be more alert and possibly even small gestures from her side may sound warning alarms.
> 
> I would humbly like to say this - in marriage two people tend to take things for granted (Same has happened to us).
> Secondly, OM will be always Mr-Know-all-So-Sweet-Nice-Guy (All guys are when we it comes to wooing a lady). Unfortunately, all wifes get exposed to the downsides of Husbands after marriage. So, no surprises here who had clear advantage here...
> 
> Thus, was the time to take the bull by horn..
> 
> Going ahead, both of us have to realign to new realities and work more towards relationship building (Yes, including myself). Lastly, its still work in progress, may take us weeks, months or even years to come terms with this, but I will do what ever to ensure this will work.
> 
> Sincerely, I want to thank all for all your help, A big Thanks...


I quoted your previous post for you to remember what you set your boundaries as. You say you threatened divorce if she stepped over your boundaries. She just did. No contact means NONE, not on chat, not at group functions, definitely not calling him right when you walk out the door.

Now is where you have to follow through. If you don't, she will continue to do whatever she chooses because she will not believe you will leave her. 

I have been here. Not following through with what you have said previously is the worst thing you can do. Worse than ignoring the whole thing happened. Worse than living in denial. It's time to put your foot down or you are going to be living with more and bigger problems down the road.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

vmails said:


> Update here, I have threatened ending marriage. Even have been avoiding her completely since last few days and have been behaving in very nasty manner by my own standards. Have noticed that her contact with the other man has stopped except "Group Whatsapp messages". She claims that she was not involved in any affair with the other man, it was just friendly and s


Wrong logic here,. you cannot know it has stopped, you only can know you found nothing. And the group needs to go too!

Her claim indicates she 

1. Does not see the problem, but 30 min a day talking is a zillion times more than normal between male and female. 'Not Just Friends' is the book to read for her.

OR

2. Knows exactly what is going on, she is in love and is gaslighting you. 


I personally can't believe she does not see the problem. So she is in love with somebody else, she justifies it maybe to herself with 'it's not an affair because I don't have sex with OP'.

If making trouble about this continues, which you should do rightly so(!), she will see herself justified to have the affair because your bad behaviour.

If you rugsweep this, she will continue, and have the affair go physical later on, because she does not respect you as being a doormat and a fool.

So make your choice,


----------



## vmails

I have to admit, guess human nature is predictable and some of the things you guys have been saying seems all so true. I have tried one last time to keep the marriage intact. Hope it works. If it does, Great, if it doesn't what the hell, damn it.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

People here have ample knowledge of how to 'shock' your wife out of the so called 'Fog', maybe you should explore some threads about the Fog.

If you want her, you can do it.


----------



## vmails

Here I am sounding like an idiot trying to show her rationale and offering her back with open arms (with smallest of *condition apply) and She is out there doing the balancing act! Wonderful... Thought, I knew this woman.


----------



## vmails

Whats fog?


----------



## Hardtohandle

vmails said:


> Here I am sounding like an idiot trying to show her rationale and offering her back with open arms (with smallest of *condition apply) and She is out there doing the balancing act! Wonderful... Thought, I knew this woman.


Vmails.. WTF did we tell you... 

Look YOU need to make a choice.. YOU, YOU, YOU.........

Do you want to be married to her ?? 

YES then go back to the beginning of this thread and do what the fvck we were telling you to do..

You sound like a little timid wuss with some of your postings here.. *"since last few days and have been behaving in very nasty manner by my own standards"*

I don't know but right now your standards seems like you didn't put the cap back on the toothpaste and left the toilet seat open to show her a thing or two. Or is it you gave her a cake with no candles..

Who gives a sh1t about her birthday ? You shouldn't.. Fvck your birthday.. I'm concerned about our marriage and you looking to cheat on me. 

It is totally and clearly obvious your loosing her. She don't give a rats a$$ about being worried about you.. You don't scare her one bit. 

If you want this marriage then FIGHT.. FIGHT... FIGHT... 

Make her world and his a turmoil that it makes it difficult to communicate. You need to break this guy loose from her. You need to destroy him, out him.. Give him something else to think about except YOUR WIFE..


There are 2 fogs..
The fog your in right now because you don't have the pair to fight for this. Your looking to nice you way out of this, which is failing miserably for you. It is called the Betrayed spouse fog. Google it.

Nutshell your paralyzed with fear and don't know what to do. 

Then there is the Wayward Spouse Fog. They blame you for everything. Your the reason for it. This other man is the best thing since slice bread.. 

Trying to explain to your spouse about this fog is just about totally and utterly useless. Granted some people will respond but they already have to be at the point of coming back. 

It is obvious that your wife at this time has no thought about coming back. 

But don't talk like a tough guy about loosing your wife. Either she fixes this or oh well her loss. Because if that is really what you felt, you wouldn't be here still posting.. 

Trust me if she calls your bluff and your not ready its gonna crush you.. Again if you re-read this thread you will see I come from the point of Failure. So I know first hand.. 

Further click the links in my signature. Look back others have helpful links as well.


----------



## BobSimmons

vmails said:


> I have to admit, guess human nature is predictable and some of the things you guys have been saying seems all so true. I have tried one last time to keep the marriage intact. Hope it works. If it does, Great, if it doesn't what the hell, damn it.


What exactly have you done? You threatened divorce and she still contacted the man. So even threat of divorce is not a deterrent.
You laid down the law and she still broke it. Now because she knows you have access to her phone she'll just take it underground, out of your sight while playing nice.

You shouldn't be "trying" to keep this marriage intact, she should be moving earth and sea to fix this as well. Kind of one sided isn't it?


----------



## Eli-Zor

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


Read the above link and expose the affair. Find the OM's wife and family and make his life miserable . 

Either fight for your marriage using the experience we have at destroying affairs or give up . Your wife is following a script , it is the same script every wayward follows the answers to countering this are in this forum if you listen and follow through with actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Did you tell the other mans wife he was having anbaffair with your wife? Evidently you did not reakly get what an EA will do. She is lying, you know it, she is deceiving by changing passwords and locking her phone, she lied again and has conspired and planed to take it underground with a new app.

She thinks you are a pu $$ y and her boyfriend is a real man who would never put up with this crap.

There is a good chance this is now a physical affair.


----------



## shaung

She is still in contact with him. You have failed to put an end to it. Time to man up. If you don't make a serious stand now you are in for a long painful ride. Everything being predicted by folks here is coming true. 

Go scorched earth now. Be ruthless and put yourself between them. TELL HIS WIFE. It will rock his world and make him back off. He must feel the consequences for persuing YOUR wife!


----------



## warlock07

Go re-read this thread again. What happened is not surprising.


----------



## Chaparral

Can you hear me now?


----------



## bryanp

1. Pay $400 and insist on a polygraph. If she says no then it is time for a lawyer.
2. Contact the OM's wife.
3. Contact an attorney to understand your options.
4. Get tested for STD's

Your wife has called your bluff and you wilted. If the roles were reversed your wife would not have put up with such humiliation and disrespect that she is giving you? She seems to have made her choice that she will not cut off contact with him no matter what the threats from you. This would indicate that the affair probably has gone physical since she is willing to throw you marriage away for this guy.


----------



## Jasel

I think demanding a polygraph might be a bit early. She's just going to say no. She needs to be willing to genuinely reconcile and be out of the fog first.

All the other advice is spot on. Like others have said you really need to step up to the plate if you want to save your marriage. You can't nice or reason your wife out of an affair. It doesn't work like that. You need to show her there are consequences for her actions. Pouting, being mean, and trying to appeal to her logical side are not going to work as you should have realized by now.


----------



## aug

BobSimmons said:


> What exactly have you done? You threatened divorce and she still contacted the man. So even threat of divorce is not a deterrent.
> You laid down the law and she still broke it. Now because she knows you have access to her phone she'll just take it underground, out of your sight while playing nice.
> 
> You shouldn't be "trying" to keep this marriage intact, she should be moving earth and sea to fix this as well. Kind of one sided isn't it?


So, she has learnt that vmails is so soft that she can walk all over him.

vmails, you need to change your approach and outlook drastically in order to make an impact on your wife.


----------



## Kasler

This is the turning point of the relationship. If he goes soft he is done, trussed up like a christmas goose. 

You need to man up vmails.

This is the scenario. You gave her strict boundaries if she wanted to R. 

She did not nudge them, she did not go over them by accident. She BLATANTLY threw them in the garbage and did as she pleased. Called OM up right after you walked out of the house so she knew damn well what she was doing. 

Now its on you. If you ignore this, if you think its silly to file divorce over a phone call, or try to turn this mountain into a mole hill, then you are putting up a giant billboard letting her no that your word doesn't mean jack sh!t. That you have no balls, and when push comes to shove she can make you back down. 

She will lose any and all respect for you if she hasn't already, and OM will look 10x more attractive(alpha male and manliness level) in comparison to you, the begging, weak and cuckolded husband.

I tell you this now, reread your thread and look at what you see. Read every post, cause there were more than 20 saying this would happen.

Then I want you to put your hand between you legs. You should still have testicular fortitude, make use of that. Get mad, man up, and let her know whats gonna happen from here on out. Divorce filed/ she needs to have her bags packed, etc the time for talking and her little selfish games are over. You need to go hard on this. you let her cry, or beg her way into no big consequences, you have lost and she will know it. 

Also, it is time to expose to family. 

People in affairs are like ****roaches. They will be bold as brass and walk over everything like they own it when it is in dark, but when you shine a light on whats going on they will scatter. 

Read this man's post. This is the result of manning up. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...g-affair-i-asked-her-leave-without-me-11.html

He had her suspended from her job, and if you read on later you can see he has crushed the affair. His Soon to be Ex wife, is still groveling at his feet. Whether said groveling comes from guilt and remorse or a sense of self preservation(most likely the latter as she was pissing on him for a long ass time without a hint of remorse). He is currently going towards divorce, but whats important here is that HE holds the power and can do anything he damn well pleases. 

Emulate this, and you will not be sorry.


----------



## LostViking

You need to ask your wife to leave. She is actively cheating on you and showing you immense disrespect. 

Have some self respect and others will start treating you with respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

vmails said:


> Here I am sounding like an idiot trying to show her rationale and offering her back with open arms (with smallest of *condition apply) and She is out there doing the balancing act! Wonderful... Thought, I knew this woman.


Nope, that wasn't where the idiocy lies. You love your wife that's the LOGICAL thing to do. Affairs are ILLOGICAL and the main way to stop them or move on is being ILLOGICAL.

I say this with all sincerity, the ignorance was in you turning up your nose at the people trying to help you.

You like video games references here's another one.

If I want you to stop playing video games what works better, taking the entire system away or turning it off when you are playing.

Hint: One removes the problem, the other changes behavior and not in your favor.


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## Kasler

Yes vmails, I know its hard to believe, but your situation and predicament isn't out of the ordinary, rare, or particular. Its more of the same sh!t, just in a different toilet. 

Listen to those here because they've gone through it, and know what worked and what didn't.

And this soft handed manner that you're peddling certainly didn't work for many.


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## PHTlump

vmails said:


> One thing is for sure, she hasnt cut off communication with him completely ("whatsapp Group Message"). What do you think?


I think she called your bluff. You told her she had to choose A) him, or B) you. Notice how I put you as Plan B? So has your wife. She refused to play your game and chose C) both of you.

You need to decide whether you will accept that. She has chosen her relationship with another man over you and your marriage. You can either accept that and be a cuckold, or you can divorce her.

Those are your choices. And they are your only two choices. There's no such thing as being mostly not a cuckold. If your wife has feelings for another man, but she only occasionally disrespects you by contacting him, well that's not really what a loyal marriage is about, is it?

So it is time for you to act. File, or shut up. Those are your two best options. If you just continue in limbo whining to your wife about how much she's hurting your feelings, but proving that you're not going to do anything about it, she will continue to lose respect for you. And women who don't respect their husbands cheat on them. And they don't even feel badly about it.

Good luck.


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## Myka

Decorum said:


> :banghead:
> 
> *Quote from page 5, UFB*
> 
> 
> *Ovid? Loto numbers please!!!!*


Holy crap!


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## Ovid

Decorum said:


> :banghead:
> 
> *Quote from page 5, UFB*
> 
> 
> *Ovid? Loto numbers please!!!!*


Sorry I don't do lotto
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

vmails said:


> Update here, I have threatened ending marriage. Even have been avoiding her completely since last few days and have been behaving in very nasty manner by my own standards. Have noticed that her contact with the other man has stopped except "Group Whatsapp messages". She claims that she was not involved in any affair with the other man, it was just friendly and she now realizes it was inappropriate. However, it was her birthday two days back and i discovered that she called guy shortly after i left for office. I confronted her, she said other friends told her that this guy was reluctant calling her on her birthday, so she called and also she sees no harm in maintaining friendly relation with this man in "Group Social Occasions".
> One thing is for sure, she hasnt cut off communication with him completely ("whatsapp Group Message"). What do you think?


I think you're screwed.

What happened to your 2 point plan a page back?

Remember #1 NC with OM?

You're wife is overtly disrespecting you in your presence.
I can't imagine such a thing ever happening to me.

Go back and alter your 2 point plan, revised version now 3 points..

1: Expose this affair to the OM's wife.
2: Demand NC between your wife and OM.
3: Monitor your wife's communication devices until you're satisfied.

Do these 3 things and if your wife is still attracted to you you should be ok.

Miss any of these three things and you'll spend up to months in a confused crazy-made limbo not knowing up from down until your wife divorces you for being incompetent and runs off with the pool boy.

Your call


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## workindad

OP, sorry to say it, I think your hosed also. She obviously cares more for her "inappropriate relationship" with OM than she does for her marriage with you. It really shouldn't matter what her friends think. It should matter what her spouse thinks.

She's calling your bluff and putting you in your place.

WD


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## nec

It happened to me in 2003 one of the biggest mistakes I ever made was I knew they were talking and I ignored it. Our marriage went to pot and we seperated. It was valentines day 2003 she said she just wanted to go shopping alone. I had a gut feeling she was meeting him. My gut told me to follow her. I didnt. They slept together. She came home guilt ridden and told me..... but it was too late. I would give anything if I had put a stop to it. Trust me bro dont wait stop it its been 10 years and we are still together but its still messing with my head and once the trust is gone I am not sure it ever comes back.


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## Shaggy

You already told her the next step, and she called you on it. She directly contacted him the minute you left for work.

This is an active affair.

Time to call the OMW. Do not give your wife any waning you are doing this.

Pity you didn't have a var to hear what what they said to each other.


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## MrK

Kasler said:


> This is the scenario. You gave her strict boundaries if she wanted to R.
> 
> She did not nudge them, she did not go over them by accident. She BLATANTLY threw them in the garbage and did as she pleased. Called OM up right after you walked out of the house so she knew damn well what she was doing.


BINGO!

For gods sake, call his f**kin' wife. She'll know what to do and have the balls to do it. IMMEDIATELY.

Called him on her birthday as soon as you leave the house? Are you kidding me? What is your DEAL man? Are you secretly ENJOYING this?


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## Foolish1

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would hesitate to contact the OM/W spouse. My H had a 2 week EA when I first found out. I went soft and rugswept and when I found out one morning a week later they hadn't stopped talking I nuked it by late afternoon. It's a shame you don't have more evidence to provide her.


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## F-102

She only told you what you wanted to hear earlier in order to get you to shut up and get off of her case.

It worked.

Now that she has you placated, she can direct her energy of affection to the POSOM again.


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## Kasler

Foolish1 said:


> I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would hesitate to contact the OM/W spouse. My H had a 2 week EA when I first found out. I went soft and rugswept and when I found out one morning a week later they hadn't stopped talking I nuked it by late afternoon. It's a shame you don't have more evidence to provide her.


Hes afraid 

I don't think hes thick, I just get the feeling this guy is petrified of laying down the law on his wife for some reason.


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## Foolish1

Kasler said:


> Hes afraid
> 
> I don't think hes thick, I just get the feeling this guy is petrified of laying down the law on his wife for some reason.


I'm sure. I was afraid too, terrified that OWH would leave OW and that would drive my H to rescue her and abandon me. Terrified that the OWH would come over and beat my H in front of our kids. But the anger overrode it, and I knew deep down that our marriage couldn't survive with a third person in it anyway. OP needs to realize how lucky he is that OM is married. I cannot imagine how hard it is to break up the addiction of an affair when there's not tremendous pressure being laid down on both sides by the respective spouses.

OP, I so wish you would've taped those conversations. Reading my H's messages to the OW really opened my eyes to just how much of an addiction affairs are. I don't think a person can realize it if they themself have never been in an A.


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## tacoma

Kasler said:


> Hes afraid
> 
> I don't think hes thick, I just get the feeling this guy is petrified of laying down the law on his wife for some reason.


He's afraid of the choice she'll make.

It's part of why he finds himself here to begin with.

He needs to understand it really doesn't matter which choice she makes because either way he'll be in a better position if he lays down his boundaries whether she stays or goes.


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## Hardtohandle

tacoma said:


> He's afraid of the choice she'll make.
> 
> It's part of why he finds himself here to begin with.
> 
> He needs to understand it really doesn't matter which choice she makes because either ay he'll be in a better position if he lays down his boundaries whether she stays or goes.


Very true..

You do get this fear in the back of your head of what if I did this and it pushed her away. I would be to blame for loosing her, OMG I can't do that. I would have to live the rest of my life knowing I pushed the person I loved out of my life..

Sadly we are just not thinking straight. 

Once reality catches up, which is usually too late. You finally figure out that you really never had a decision to make. It really is all their choice. All you can do is draw the line and say this is it. No more... 

I went through this at first, fortunately I "manned up" a bit quicker then the OP. But regardless it was done, my STBXW had her mind made already. She was just delaying the divorce until the OM finished fixing up the apartment they have. But at least I was able to make a stand and show people I tried my best to fix this.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

I think OP is going to be one of the MANY BS's that end up posting here that they should have listened, they should exposed the affair to the OMW.

If he ever post here again that is, ...


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## vmails

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vmails

Shall update soon. Am out 2 days for a business trip. Lets see what happens..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vmails

It may me too early to say, but I can say with good amount of certainty that while I was away and since last two weeks there has been no communication between these two. 

Will wait for atleast couple of months before concluding that things are under control. 

Has anyone ever recovered fully from this? I mean the episode has shattered trust, respect, love.. hope these things heal? Maybe, maybe not.. 

Will update soon. Thanks folks.


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## PHTlump

vmails said:


> Has anyone ever recovered fully from this? I mean the episode has shattered trust, respect, love.. hope these things heal? Maybe, maybe not..


It takes a long time to heal. Putting an affair completely behind you can take as long as 5 years.

As for getting back, trust, love, etc. You can. But it will be different. And that's not altogether bad. You won't ever again blindly trust your wife as a morally infallible woman who would never dream of betraying you. However, you were foolish to have that view of her in the first place. No person is morally infallible and all people can cheat, under the right circumstances. Part of healing is accepting that and realizing that you have to deal with it in the future.


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## ExisaWAW

Vmails, I'm on your side dude, we all are. But I'd be shocked if this turns out well for you. I went through the same situation but knew nothing of these forums back then. You have been given a gift my friend. If you haven't installed the VARs, etc. you are asking for it big time. All your W would have to do is buy a disposable cell phone. 

I think she's taken the A underground. Know this. When you are going through the unbelievable pain & anguish of your D, you will look back & kick yourself for not taking the excellent advice you were given here a month ago. So sad. I wish you the best but clearly you have blown it big time. 

I hope I'm wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Please put a VAR in her car to be sure nothing is going on.


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## Kasler

"The episode?" Smh

I.E you've done nothing major, and tried to turn this magnitude 8 earthquake into a fat guy falling down. 

She has won. Its gonna get really bad for you from here on out vmails, very very bad as she now knows you are not a man to be taken seriously at his word.


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## See_Listen_Love

The Beta Speak of all these guys it so much allways the same crap talk, it just looks like it is the same person having all these marriages.

Emasculation at its best.


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## Chaparral

There are so many men here doing the opposite of what they should be doing , I'm wondering if we are being scamed. The reasons given are so bad, they cannot have read the threads that show what works and what doesn't.


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## jnj express

Hey Vmails---what boundaries, ARE ACTUALLY IN PLACE---also do you have full access to her phone, computer, anything you want/need to see---anytime you want the access

Is your wife showing remorse, contriteness---where is all of this at

Also has she given you the AP, address,and full name---so you can contact the other wife

Your wife will comply with all of these demands----if she balks or argues---tell her D, goes on the table immediately, and also that since she doesn't want to work on this mge---she can leave anytime---she can even go be with her AP---tell her lets see how well he will take care of her

You gotta be hard as nails about this


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## vmails

I see genuine concerns from all you good people. I think I must answer a few questions as it is important.

1) Why am I not seriously taking suggestion like VRS etc

Answer - As I have stated a few times earlier, I dont need more evidence. I have more than what I need. Yes, I know exactly what was going on. 

2) Why did post on this forum and not on some other forums like Oprah etc..

answer - "Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity." is the line used in this forum at the top of the page. 

I came here to know how to "Cope" & "Recover" from what happened.

Right from the beginning, I am not looking for ways to gather more evidence. As i said, I have more than what VRS conversation recording can provide.

3) Why I didnt Confront OM/OMW

answer - When i first got to know about this, I insisted my wife to go to OM's house and have open confrontation. 

That time I didnt confront, but have been using this as a deterrent. There has been a constant reminder that should this repeat not only OMW but every one in her circle and her family will know whats happening. 

Also, because I know my temperament, when pushed to corner, I have problems controlling temper and tend to go into self destruction mode (could have blown off relationship and then later had enough ego not to try mend it). best I thought was to use the situation as a deterrent. 

I think this worked for me. 

4) Why am I subjecting myself to being an epitome of Emasculation etc.

answer - That not the case here, I am here only to know how to deal with myself, my anger and my frustration (knowing what happened). Its not that I dont have balls to ruin others happiness. yes, she made a mistake, and yes I have balls to accept her back if she remorse and willingness to work on this relationship.

5) Has she shown remorse.

Answer - Yes, have seen change in her attitude towards betterment. too early to say that I am bang on on my assessment. But as of now I really have little to complaint. having said that I am not letting my guards down. Will invest a few months more in this relationship and hopefully will see the wind pass. Till then, I have my mechanism in place to monitor what is going on behind my back. Will surely update on the same...

Thanks you all once again for helping me. I had not dealt with this situation before, thus didnt know much about this but knowing reality has helped me to cope up with this situation. Thanks again all good people.


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## Romeo_Holden

vmails said:


> I see genuine concerns from all you good people. I think I must answer a few questions as it is important.
> 
> 1) Why am I not seriously taking suggestion like VRS etc
> 
> Answer - As I have stated a few times earlier, I dont need more evidence. I have more than what I need. Yes, I know exactly what was going on.
> 
> 2) Why did post on this forum and not on some other forums like Oprah etc..
> 
> answer - "Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity." is the line used in this forum at the top of the page.
> 
> I came here to know how to "Cope" & "Recover" from what happened.
> 
> Right from the beginning, I am not looking for ways to gather more evidence. As i said, I have more than what VRS conversation recording can provide.
> 
> 3) Why I didnt Confront OM/OMW
> 
> answer - When i first got to know about this, I insisted my wife to go to OM's house and have open confrontation.
> 
> That time I didnt confront, but have been using this as a deterrent. There has been a constant reminder that should this repeat not only OMW but every one in her circle and her family will know whats happening.
> 
> Also, because I know my temperament, when pushed to corner, I have problems controlling temper and tend to go into self destruction mode (could have blown off relationship and then later had enough ego not to try mend it). best I thought was to use the situation as a deterrent.
> 
> I think this worked for me.
> 
> 4) Why am I subjecting myself to being an epitome of Emasculation etc.
> 
> answer - That not the case here, I am here only to know how to deal with myself, my anger and my frustration (knowing what happened). Its not that I dont have balls to ruin others happiness. yes, she made a mistake, and yes I have balls to accept her back if she remorse and willingness to work on this relationship.
> 
> 5) Has she shown remorse.
> 
> Answer - Yes, have seen change in her attitude towards betterment. too early to say that I am bang on on my assessment. But as of now I really have little to complaint. having said that I am not letting my guards down. Will invest a few months more in this relationship and hopefully will see the wind pass. Till then, I have my mechanism in place to monitor what is going on behind my back. Will surely update on the same...
> 
> Thanks you all once again for helping me. I had not dealt with this situation before, thus didnt know much about this but knowing reality has helped me to cope up with this situation. Thanks again all good people.



You are just making excuses. If down the line things go south again (which is likely) you can't say you didn't get good advice. You are trading away self respect for fear of loneliness, you always want to expose an affair that's the surest way to end it, if it does not end it then your marriage was well beyond fixing already.


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## vmails

Romeo_Holden said:


> You are just making excuses. If down the line things go south again (which is likely) you can't say you didn't get good advice. You are trading away self respect for fear of loneliness, you always want to expose an affair that's the surest way to end it, if it does not end it then your marriage was well beyond fixing already.


I agree on every thing except making excuses. 

Do I have Evidence/proof of Wrong doing - Plenty. 
do I have Evidence/proof of her showing remorse - Plenty.

on exactly what you have said, all stakeholders (me, her and the OM) have been exposed and know how the thin line separates the happiness and the consequences.


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## saiyagirl09

Can someone tell me what VAR is?


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## azteca1986

saiyagirl09 said:


> Can someone tell me what VAR is?


Voice Activated Recorder


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

*1) Why am I not seriously taking suggestion like VRS etc

Answer - As I have stated a few times earlier, I dont need more evidence. I have more than what I need. Yes, I know exactly what was going on.*

Do you realize how many people here have said the same exact thing? Only to find out that they didn't know EXACTLY what had gone on. They thought the marriage was in R, got complacent afterwards and the affair started back up again.

Your not with her 24/7. Unless you had a trained bird with a mini-camera attached following her around, you'll never now for sure "exactly was going on".

In a true R there needs to be forgiveness. For that, you need to know what it is you are forgiving her for...


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## vmails

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> *1) Why am I not seriously taking suggestion like VRS etc
> 
> Answer - As I have stated a few times earlier, I dont need more evidence. I have more than what I need. Yes, I know exactly what was going on.*
> 
> Do you realize how many people here have said the same exact thing? Only to find out that they didn't know EXACTLY what had gone on. They thought the marriage was in R, got complacent afterwards and the affair started back up again.
> 
> Your not with her 24/7. Unless you had a trained bird with a mini-camera attached following her around, you'll never now for sure "exactly was going on".
> 
> In a true R there needs to be forgiveness. For that, you need to know what it is you are forgiving her for...


I agree, I have assistance of technology and some friends who are updating me of every move. Thats how I came to know about what was happening behind my back at the first place.


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## brokenbythis

vmails said:


> My wife has got in touch with her school friends a few months back. I noticed in her last mobile bill that she has been calling a particular male friend for almost 30 minutes daily (4-5 calls on an average). I dont know about incoming calls. I confronted her, she says its only a friend and there is nothing between them. She even says if I dont like, she wont call. However, this is killing me from inside. She has been deleting call logs, locked her phone with password etc. This made me suspicious and therefore I decided to check the phone bill.I really hope for my love for her that I am getting unnecessarily suspicious. Only thing is that I am unable to deal with this situation, cant sleep, cant get this whole thing out of my head. If any one of you have gone through this and dealt with this please help me cope with this situation. Thanks


"Just friends". BS.. she is on a very slippery slope heading to a PA real fast - if not already in one. 

Don't be in denial. I've been down this road. My STBXH got in contact with an old church "friend" through facebook. He assured me they were "just friends". We were separated at the time but supposedly working on reconciliation.

Well that "friend" is now pregnant with MY husband's baby. And I've filed for divorce. Sick, sick , sick.

I believed him and didn't know he was banging her until she was 8 wks pregnant, and he finally confessed to me she is pregnant. The day he told me was the day after she had told him she is refusing to terminate the pregnancy. I wonder if she had terminated it, would be have told me at all???

When he told me about the pregnancy he had already broken it off with her 4 wks previously. But since I filed a month ago he's back with her to "do the right thing". Me and my special needs son seemingly don't deserve for him to do the right thing.

All I'm saying is what your wife is doing is NOT innocent. Tell her to put a stop to it right now of she can move out and you will file for divorce.


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## vmails

brokenbythis said:


> All I'm saying is what your wife is doing is NOT innocent. Tell her to put a stop to it right now of she can move out and you will file for divorce.


I am really sorry to learn your experience, I associate with your feelings. What you suggested, that's what Exactly I have done, have updated this before. i agree, I cant afford to keep my guards down... As I said, giving this relationship a few more months to prove its worth...


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## vmails

brokenbythis, Please stay strong, may god give you strength to achieve the very best life has to offer.


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## brokenbythis

vmails said:


> brokenbythis, Please stay strong, may god give you strength to achieve the very best life has to offer.


I'm doing ok. I truly believe in the Karma bus and believe they will pay eventually for what they have done.

I don't want to be around any of them. They are all sick people.


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## Mtts

vmails, the only thing I will add to this thread for you is read about 180 and prepare yourself to start over. 

I wish that when I had seen things that were unusual I had really taken a stronger stance. I did take that stance once I found too much to accept. However only thing I see here that really makes me feel like you're in for a rough ride is trying to use exposure as a detterent.

Exposure is as much for you as it is for them. My separated wife and I finally are on a more level playing feel. I exposed what was happening a year ago to all friends of mine and family. She finally did recently to her own parents. They've since contacted me apologizing and hoping we make it.

Nothing better than to take away the support system that feeds the BS. If you value your marriage this would be something to heavily consider.


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## krismimo

Hi vmails.

Ok I'm going to take a different approach to it. Don't do the var to gather more evidence do the var to find out what is going on in you wife's outlook. There was a guy just like you who didn't think his wife was messing around but he had a bad feeling, his wife played it down and made him feel awful, but the nagging feeling would not go away. 

He put a var in her car and not only did he found his wife was cheating but also he found out crucial info about the affair and in some ways how she was hiding it from him. Another poster in a similar boat as you did the same thing, he overheard his wife not only talk about the affair to a friend but she bragged about it and I think this was around the same time period they were suppose to R it was thrown in his face. 

Look don't do the var to collect evidence as you said you don't need it but look at it as a eye opener or door opener for you, does she have friends that are helping with the affair? Does she have family that already knew about it and just didn't tell you? Is she planning on leaving you? (That is a hard one to think about but that has happened.) 

You don't know everything because there is no way for you to know what your wife truly thinks of you and your situation. If you do the var and nothing really comes up then boom there you go all is well. You can use the var as an advantage for instance if she tells you she is going to one place, but she goes some place else and lies about it then you know something is up. Not everyone used the var to gather evidence but to gather locations of their spouses. If she isn't lying to you to who she is with and where she goes then she has nothing to worry about. And you have nothing to worry about. The posters are telling you to get the VAR for a good reason.


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