# Lessons learned being OM #2 - harsh realities (Warning: TRIGGERS AHEAD)



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

The main thing I want people to understand from part 1 is that no one is immune and it can happen any time, any where.  

There are a number of other things that I don't think many BHs/BSs can wrap their head around initially that people need to be aware of. 

I am going to post a few of those as bullet points in no particular order.

-WWs do things with their APs that they don't do and may never do with their BHs. This may seem counter to all that we have been raised to believe, but WWs hook up with OM because the OM are NOT SAFE and are not nice guys. They are dangerous and threatening and that is what makes them so iresistable to WWs. WW don't worry that the house isn't clean enough for the OM and doesn't worry that she may appear loose or ****ty or promiscuous (he already knows that) She doesn't care that she appears to be a good mother to him. SHE DOESN'T CARE. When you don't care, that is when the wild animal comes out. WWs will indulge in kinks and fetishes with the OM. Do anal. Swallow. Beg for facials when he's getting ready to cum. Dress in slinky lingerie. Engage in various forms of bondage etc. She is not a wife and mother and pillar of the community in the church choir when she is in the OM's bed or the local No-Tell-Motel.

90+% of the time the WW has no aspirations or intentions of running off and marrying the OM. A lot of times she doesn't even like him all that much or respect him as a husband or father material and she doesn't care of he thinks of her as wife or mother material. She just wants attention and excitement and to lusted after and desired. She wants to be a wanton woman of ill-repute with him. 

-Condom use is rare (and I only say rare because there are always exceptions to everything) When a WW makes the choice to cheat (yes, it is a choice) She WANTS another man's sperm in her and on her. If she's going to risk her marriage, home and family, it is going to be for the full experience and not some neat and tidy, watered down substitution. If you are forcing some kind of confession, she may say they always used a condom...…..but they didn't. 

(this wasn't a WW of mine, but I do know a WW that would stuff a tampon up herself before leaving the OM's place and then throw it out the car window a few blocks from her house in efforts that her BH wouldn't notice if they got it on once she was home)

- which lead me to the fact that it is not uncommon for WWs to screw their BHs soon after the OM. While many WWs lose all respect and desire for their BH and their marital sexlife basically dies during the A,,, Other WWs get a wave of hormones and a spike in libido that carries over into the marital bed and some simply make a conscious choice to screw their BHs soon after the OM so keep the BH from getting suspicious or in case they get pregnant from the OM to keep the ultrasound from giving them away. Yes this really happens. 

- the WW will have assistants, co-conspirators, affair-supporters and advocates for the OM. This is something that can be really hard to swallow as a BS, but many if not most WWs will have a variety of friends, relatives, coworkers etc that actually encourage and support the affair. Once a girlfriend of the WW sees Sven at yoga class making glances and sneaking looks at the WW, these people will encourage and egg-on the WW and point out Sven bulge in his yoga pants and his rippling biceps and how blues his eyes are and how golden his wavy hair is. They will also lie for her and be her alibi and her cover story. 

Some times it gets darker yet and there will be close friends and relatives that simply do not like you and do not think you are good enough, and they will urge the WW to seek other opportunities and point out all your flaws and actively encourage her to hook up with others. 

I speak from experience on this one. Essentially all of my affairs, the WW had cheerleaders and supporters of the affair. In one case, even the adolescent daughter of one of my WWs was encouraging the A because she did not like her step dad. 

Not only that, but there are websites and hook up sites specifically for cheaters and even discussion forums likes this one that cater to cheaters where cheaters go for advice on how to find APs and how to not get caught and how to cover their tracks and how to pull the wool over their BS's eyes. 

Cheating can become almost institutionalized. 

-WWs are often "in love" with the OM but do not love them. In many ways it is the opposite of the ILYBNILWY that befalls the BH. What I mean by this is the WW often experiences a rush of lust and desire and sexuality that she may not have felt in years and for all practical purposes is "in love" with the OM in that her feelings are powerful and passionate. 

But she realizes that he is not marriage/father material or she may realize that he will not commit to her or take her on full time as a partner. 

So she anquishes in limbo for a long time and her emotions and psyche are being pulled in many different directions and she may turn into a bona fide basket case. 

- Another bitter truth is if the OM is taller, better looking, makes significantly more money, has a bigger Johnson and is better in bed and has a more interesting exciting lifestyle AND he wants her full-time and makes her a legitimate offer to be with him...…….. I am sorry but that isn't even going to be an "affair", she is simply going to pack up and go to him. Hypergamy is real. 

I have personally seen this happen in the course of one weekend. I know two people that met at their spouses class reunion on a Friday night and by Monday they announced their plans to divorce to their families and moved in together within a few months once the logistics were sorted out. They are still happily married today 10 years later.

I know a couple other couples that met and the WW was packing her bags and taking pictures off the wall to move in with OM within a few weeks. 

Most ongoing affairs the WW gets her fun and excitement from the OM and gets her support and security and stability from the BH and she works hard to keep from getting caught and to have her cake and eat it too. 

But if she thinks the OM is "better" across the board and he wants her fulltime and makes the offer - she's gone and you can't stop her. 

I've seen this again and again and this is also what happened with me and Mrs Old. We were hooking up on the down low for a couple months and we both decided we were each Bigger Better Deals (BBD) than our current partners and within the time it tool to work out the logistics, we were together and her XBF and my XGF were standing there wondering what just happened. 

I'm sure I'll think of more later and will add as I think of it.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Every one of these points I've read in the CWI forums, but it's quite a punch in the face when it's distilled like this.

The cheater scripts and patterns are near universal.

Ugh.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I've seen this again and again and this is also what happened with me and Mrs Old. We were hooking up on the down low for a couple months and we both decided we were each Bigger Better Deals (BBD) than our current partners and within the time it tool to work out the logistics, we were together and her XBF and my XGF were standing there wondering what just happened.


So in your case, it had nothing to do with love, promises, honesty, integrity, or any other positive motivation. 

It's no wonder you are so fixated on absolute blanket statements like "_everybody _will do it under the right circumstances."

As one other poster said in the other thread. This is straight up insulting. Just because you have no integrity doesn't mean you get to assault everyone else's. 

What a pathetic tale, and subsequently a horrible basis from which to view all of humanity.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

@oldshirt Every BH should read this. 
I'm divorced a year and it still stings me.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Oldshirt you are so on the mark it is scary, having been a former OM in my youth i can tell you everything you have posted in both entries is exactly what i saw. Once there was this female minster that was preaching on sunday and screwing on monday with the OM.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> So in your case, it had nothing to do with love, promises, honesty, integrity, or any other positive motivation.
> 
> It's no wonder you are so fixated on absolute blanket statements like "_everybody _will do it under the right circumstances."
> 
> ...


I disagree that Mrs Old and I had nothing to do with love, honesty, integrity etc etc. Yes it was a rough start and if her BF and my GF at the time were writing the narrative, we would probably be painted as scum. 

(Although on a side note: Mrs Old's exBF was married with a baby and my exGF was engaged and living with her new man before Mrs Old and I got married. As far as the 4 of us are concerned, it all fell into place and was all meant to be) 

But anyway getting back - it was a rough beginning and we did have a lot of baggage to unpack and a lot of serious talks and soul-searching going forward. 

But we were adults ( I was 31, she was 28) and we each had our pasts and we worked through it like any other couple. 

And in regards to my statements of it can happen to anyone - I'm sorry but it can. 

I may talk tough at times but deep down I am a big softy and believe in love and believe in the good of Mankind. I wish I could say there is a certain race of people that come out of a certain mold that are immune from infidelity...… but it simply doesn't work that way. 

I am not saying everyone will cheat. I'm not even saying everyone will cheat if things get bad at home and Brad Pitt or Heidi Klume comes along. 

But I am saying that there is no one that is absolutely immune and untouchable. 

It's a choice. And for many people the circumstances were not such that they chose to take that route. Good on them!!

But that doesn't mean that they will make that same choice in a difference set of circumstances next week or next year or even 10 years from now. 

Every cheater that ever drew a breath at one time or another said they would never cheat and in their heart of hearts at that time they really believed that. 

Then one day a perfect storm of events and circumstances and feelings and opportunities etc all intersected and they made a different choice that what they ever thought they would. 

I'm not going to argue with people that say "I will never!" because that's a fool's argument for both you as well as me. 

But the point I want to make in all of this is to the BSs and potential BSs out there to never make the mistake of thinking it is impossible for their spouse to cheat. 

To think otherwise is simply erroneous.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I disagree that Mrs Old and I had nothing to do with love, honesty, integrity etc etc. Yes it was a rough start and if her BF and my GF at the time were writing the narrative, we would probably be painted as scum.
> 
> (Although on a side note: Mrs Old's exBF was married with a baby and my exGF was engaged and living with her new man before Mrs Old and I got married. As far as the 4 of us are concerned, it all fell into place and was all meant to be)
> 
> ...


But what you didn't say you returned because you loved your wife and wanted to honor your commitment to her; what you specifically said was that you realized she was a "bigger better deal."

That you think someone saying "I would never" is a fools argument says a lot, and again, I think is projection on your part; it's much easier to think everyone lacks integrity as you did. As you say, it's a choice.... and people who consistently make the right choice could be expected to continue to do so. 

You may know you, and you may think you know "people," but you most definitely do not know me.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

So, just wondering here, does it matter how many kids might have been created through this affairs? Especially since condoms aren't generally used? Is there no accountability for the action, aside from the woman's side? If we want to carry this further we can point out how much more likely it is that a woman might be susceptible to cheating when she's most-fertile.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> - which lead me to the fact that it is not uncommon for WWs to screw their BHs soon after the OM. While many WWs lose all respect and desire for their BH and their marital sexlife basically dies during the A,,, Other WWs get a wave of hormones and a spike in libido that carries over into the marital bed and some simply make a conscious choice to screw their BHs soon after the OM so keep the BH from getting suspicious or in case they get pregnant from the OM to keep the ultrasound from giving them away. Yes this really happens.


I believe and/or agree with everything you've stated in both threads, particularly that given the right (or wrong) circumstances, everyone will cheat. Nobody has any business explicitly trusting their spouse.

I just want to point out, regarding what I quoted above, that revenge is sometimes, maybe even often, the reason behind that. Lots of mistreated and downright abused women will (at least want to) have an affair to get back at her husband/boyfriend and receive him behind the OM because, in her mind and her eyes, it reduces him from his own superiority complex.

In fact, I completely believe mistreatment/abuse is the one real reason a wife has for cheating on her husband. And I don't care who dislikes or disagrees with that.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> So, just wondering here, does it matter how many kids might have been created through this affairs? Especially since condoms aren't generally used? Is there no accountability for the action, aside from the woman's side? If we want to carry this further we can point out how much more likely it is that a woman might be susceptible to cheating when she's most-fertile.


Have you seen how often people have discovered their father is not their father? It's probably more often than the discoveries of half siblings they knew nothing about from men having affairs. People using all the sites offering DNA testing are making these discoveries every day. And many of them are over 50 years old, so before BC pills were commonly used or weren't yet available. It's history-old knowledge just like men having affairs. It just couldn't be proven throughout history.

When I was growing, I always heard about milk man, mailman, and door-to-door salesman stories. Married women have always had affairs for their own reasons.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

StarFires said:


> I believe and/or agree with everything you've stated in both threads, particularly that given the right (or wrong) circumstances, everyone will cheat. Nobody has any business explicitly trusting their spouse.
> 
> I just want to point out, regarding what I quoted above, that revenge is sometimes, maybe even often, the reason behind that. Lots of mistreated and downright abused women will (at least want to) have an affair to get back at her husband/boyfriend and receive him behind the OM because, in her mind and her eyes, it reduces him from his own superiority complex.
> 
> In fact, I completely believe mistreatment/abuse is the one real reason a wife has for cheating on her husband. And I don't care who dislikes or disagrees with that.


While I can understand "Nobody has any business explicitly trusting their spouse", I don't necessarily think that means "given the right (or wrong) circumstances, everyone will cheat." Whether or not I can put blind trust in my wife in no way prevents me from knowing what I would or wouldn't do across the complete range of possible circumstances I might face. 

As for abuse/mistreatment being justification for cheating, really, it's just justification for leaving the relationship. I suppose if there's some unavoidable delay (like the mandatory 1 year waiting period in Australia), then that might change my thought here, but absent that, you end the relationship first. 

More problematic is the question of what actually constitutes "mistreatment."


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

StarFires said:


> Have you seen how often people have discovered their father is not their father? It's probably more often than the discoveries of half siblings they knew nothing about from men having affairs. People using all the sites offering DNA testing are making these discoveries every day. And many of them are over 50 years old, so before BC pills were commonly used or weren't yet available. It's history-old knowledge just like men having affairs. It just couldn't be proven throughout history.
> 
> When I was growing, I always heard about milk man, mailman, and door-to-door salesman stories. Married women have always had affairs for their own reasons.


"Liking" this didn't quite seem like the right thing. 

So behavior isn't being modified despite the easy access to DNA data that can prove paternity? Is this a case of people not understanding what's changed, or would it matter anyway, since this is all about the heat of the moment, at least for the OP's scenarios?

It's hard to believe that, out of the +100 women he's claimed to have affairs with (although perhaps some of that included his "swinging" era and maybe birth control was the norm then), that, with so much unprotected sex, he wouldn't have fathered several children, all of whom he would legally share some responsibility for raising?


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

StarFires said:


> In fact, I completely believe mistreatment/abuse is the one real reason a wife has for cheating on her husband. And I don't care who dislikes or disagrees with that.


Why would anyone dislike this? I completely believe that you believe this.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cheaters, swingers, and people who will do risky things for sex or who have no morals about doing "whoever" will always find each other.

Oldshirt is describing what that group of people do. And yes, they do each other. That's why he thinks it is "everyone". Because he is in that group and he meets and finds others in that group. Like attracts like. It is not hard to find others in that group if you are one of them. Then they seem to be everywhere to you as it seems to Oldshirt.

But the people who are not in that group don't engage you, don't get involved with it, don't speak to people like that. And people like Oldshirt see these people and decide that they are unapproachable and move on quickly. Sure someone like Oldshirt might try to seduce someone who is not like them and sometimes it works. However most cases are people who are "like" each other in that way.

Also true that some of the people who are like Oldshirt appear to some outsiders to be all proper, church going, blah blah blah. So Oldshirt thinks that means that EVERYONE is vulnerable, because he has banged some sweet church ladies. That's not what really happened. She was just one of his group of people and had never done it before so even she wasn't fully aware of who she is yet.

I have what I call Sexdar and I can see an Oldshirt a mile away. I can also see a man who would never, ever cheat on his wife. It's in their eyes. It is something they project. The Oldshirt type of guys' eyes are very easy for me to detect. It is a vibe.

No doubt, he has honed his Sexdar to know which women to approach even if they seem to be sweet church ladies. 

Plenty of sweet church men will cheat on their wives, as we all know. So there is no difference between the men and women who are seemingly moral and decent but who are cheaters, etc.

That leaves a very very large group of "everyone else". The people who don't go looking for sex all the time everywhere. The ones who are actually very happy at home and don't want to be swingers. The people who know that great sex doesn't have to mean 100 partners. The ones who are not that sexual to begin with. The ones who are too shy to get naked in front of anyone anyway. The ones who are very specific about the kind of sex they want and don't just look at strangers to fulfill this.

Oldshirt thinks he could seduce any of these, but he is wrong.

I've been on both sides and know what he is saying is true in the sense that there is a sizable amount of the population who are like him. I'm just saying that there is a huge part of the population who he doesn't interact with or engage, because they are not like him. He thinks he avoids these types for various reasons he tells himself, because he still believes the group he is in is "everyone".


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@Faithful Wife beat me to it.
@oldshirt is telling the truth about a segment of cheaters.

Not all cheaters fit the description of the cheaters he is talking about and many are forewarned and forearmed so as to avoid cheating.

I agree with his other post that no one is invulnerable and everyone should take steps to prevent situations from going the wrong way.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> @Faithful Wife beat me to it.
> 
> @oldshirt is telling the truth about a segment of cheaters.
> 
> .


I would say he is talking about a segment of the population, not just a segment of cheaters. Because some of the people in the segment he is describing are swingers, polyamorous, kinky, or just highly sexual. Some people in these groups would also do what the main population calls "cheating". Others would not. But all of them are hunting for lots of sex.

Also, some cheaters really do just make a one time mistake for reasons other than being in the group he is describing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I would say he is talking about a segment of the population, not just a segment of cheaters. Because some of the people in the segment he is describing are swingers, polyamorous, kinky, or just highly sexual. Some people in these groups would also do what the main population calls "cheating". Others would not. But all of them are hunting for lots of sex.
> 
> Also, some cheaters really do just make a one time mistake for reasons other than being in the group he is describing.


Yup. I'm far less familiar with people who share but I've studied infidelity for decades.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> Cheaters, swingers, and people who will do risky things for sex or who have no morals about doing "whoever" will always find each other.
> 
> Oldshirt is describing what that group of people do. And yes, they do each other. That's why he thinks it is "everyone". Because he is in that group and he meets and finds others in that group. Like attracts like. It is not hard to find others in that group if you are one of them. Then they seem to be everywhere to you as it seems to Oldshirt.
> 
> ...


This is also how I see it, from his history it seems sexual gratification was one of the primary motivations in his life, and certainly the primary one when it came to picking a mate so in that context it makes sense that he thinks everyone is like that. I know some people find it hard to believe that some folks will never cheat but some of us didn't have sex with willing dates because we wanted to wait until we were in love and that wasn't even cheating. So having sex with some stranger is just not appealing to us. Shockingly some folks wait until they are married even.

Are all of us vulnerable to cheating sure, but some of us have it in check because we know that. 

All that being said I think everything he is saying is true about a certain segment of the population. Just like a certain part cheats on their taxes, or shoplifts or whatever else it is.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> The main thing I want people to understand from part 1 is that no one is immune and it can happen any time, any where.
> 
> There are a number of other things that I don't think many BHs/BSs can wrap their head around initially that people need to be aware of.
> 
> ...


WoW! I need a smoke after reading this........And I don't even smoke......


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I agree with Oldshirt completely. Given the right circumstances, nobody is immune to cheating. Just because a person is sure (for whatever reasons moral or religious) they will never cheat only means they have not met with the right circumstances. Those who have cheated, despite their previous certainty that they never would, experienced the conditions that prompted their decision to go back on their previous words. That can happen to anyone and everyone.

*Coping With Infidelity Part 2*
_I don't trust my wife completely and she doesn't trust me, and that's why neither of us have ever had an affair. Lack of trust does not make spouses paranoid and miserable, it makes their marriages safe._

_But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better._

*Coping With Infidelity Part 4*
_One topic is loss of trust. How can a spouse ever trust an unfaithful partner again? My answer is that the spouse should never have been trusted in the first place. I shouldn't be trusted by my wife, and I shouldn't trust her.* The fact is that we are all wired for infidelity, and under certain conditions, we'll all do it.* The way to protect your marriage from something that has been common to man (and women) for thousands of years is to recognize the threat, and do something to prevent it from happening._


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> "Liking" this didn't quite seem like the right thing.
> 
> So behavior isn't being modified despite the easy access to DNA data that can prove paternity? Is this a case of people not understanding what's changed, or would it matter anyway, since this is all about the heat of the moment, at least for the OP's scenarios?
> 
> It's hard to believe that, out of the +100 women he's claimed to have affairs with (although perhaps some of that included his "swinging" era and maybe birth control was the norm then), that, with so much unprotected sex, he wouldn't have fathered several children, all of whom he would legally share some responsibility for raising?


The "affairs" were 25-30 years ago and probably totaled less than a dozen women all together and all were claiming to be on the pill or receiving the BC injections of the time. Yes they could have been lying but no kids came along in those days. 

The majority and remainder were consenting couples and single women in the swinging lifestyle and after I had had my vasectomy at the age of 40. 

No children.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> So, just wondering here, does it matter how many kids might have been created through this affairs? Especially since condoms aren't generally used? Is there no accountability for the action, aside from the woman's side? If we want to carry this further we can point out how much more likely it is that a woman might be susceptible to cheating when she's most-fertile.


No kids from my encounters. 

But yes, there is a statistically significant number of children born every year that are not the husband's children.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> But what you didn't say you returned because you loved your wife and wanted to honor your commitment to her; what you specifically said was that you realized she was a "bigger better deal."
> .



We were two single people dating others at the time. 

We started seeing each other and quickly agreed that we were right for each other and wanted to be together and we broke things off with the people were dating at the time (I was dating, she was cohabitating) and we've been together for 25 years and two kids and dog now. 

Dating is a selection process in a dog-eat-dog world. 

I had been dumped a number of times prior to that because the people I was dating at the time found BBDs and shucked me off to the side. 

The same had happened to my wife before. 

The same that has happened to millions and millions of people and probably the vast vast majority of people on this site when they were dating. 

Maybe it sucks that people hook up with someone before they break it off completely with the person/people they are dating at the time - but it is a reality.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That you think someone saying "I would never" is a fools argument says a lot, and again, I think is projection on your part; it's much easier to think everyone lacks integrity as you did. As you say, it's a choice.... and people who consistently make the right choice could be expected to continue to do so.
> .


….could be expected to do so until they choose not to. 

It's a fools game to continue to argue this. 

I can't say you will or you won't ever cheat. It would be foolish of me to say you will or you because I have no control over what you do or don't do with your tallywacker. 

If I say you would cheat and you get killed in a car wreck tomorrow never having ever cheated then I would be the fool. 

If you say you won't and then 10 years from now Anna Kendrick makes you an offer you can't refuse at the time, then you are the fool. 

This continued discussion is pointless and never my intent nor my message. My message is that it would be erroneous of anyone to believe that their spouse would never cheat under any circumstances. 

I will stand by that and never waiver. That has nothing to do with my character nor yours. It's simple common sense. 

My statement is not an attack or offense on the pious and honorable and nor is it a free pass for the sinner. 

It is just a statement of reality. 

If people want to get all butthurt because they think I am saying that they are cheaters or will cheat or will likely cheat or whatever - that is on them and their own insecurities because I am saying no such thing.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

What the hell....I'll chime in...especially after StarFires post.

Well I was that guy. The abusive husband. The abusive kink's. Zero integrity. Convict.

So yes my old lady cheated and found that sensitive guy that talked and told her all the things I wouldn't/couldn't and yes the currency for that attention was sex (sometimes referred to a pathetic phuck), but I kept my old lady around. In the end it was the sex that kept us together. I have a thing for crazy biker chicks what can I say. I mean once you start meeting each others needs a lot of positive crap can happen.

My point is it takes all kinds and some folks are just broken and some folks kind of loose their way but find the moral path and stop pushing their old lady around and stop screwing strange.

It really is sad that for the most part Old is right on with his perspective.

But there is always that couple from the other side of the tracks that puts a curve in all the bull shyt infidelity has to offer and come out the other side with more integrity then they started the marriage with.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> We were two single people dating others at the time.
> 
> We started seeing each other and quickly agreed that we were right for each other and wanted to be together and we broke things off with the people were dating at the time (I was dating, she was cohabitating) and we've been together for 25 years and two kids and dog now.
> 
> ...


If you were dating without any promise of exclusivity, then my statement is retracted. Your post gave the impression that you were married. (you said my wife and I without alluding to the fact that it was pre marriage)


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> ….could be expected to do so until they choose not to.
> 
> It's a fools game to continue to argue this.
> 
> ...


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Hum, I guess I am “weird”. 

I cheated a lot. Safe sex that means mandatory condoms was always part of it. 

I had absolutely no delusions of “feelings” for the OM, his role was to stroke my ego and scratch an itch. I always made that very clear. 

Never had any cheer leaders - never told a soul besides the OM, and eventually my husband. I knew better than to ever trust anyone with something like this. 

I was always sure OM had absolutely no community/ work / social circle affiliation - that would be way too risky. 

So while I was willing to do something very risky (cheating) I also took many steps to mitigate that risk.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> No kids from my encounters.
> 
> But yes, there is a statistically significant number of children born every year that are not the husband's children.


You've had a vasectomy? (Never mind; already answered yes in another thread.)


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fine you win. 
@rockymountainyeti, Faithful Wife and Sokillme will never cheat under any circumstances for all of eternity and are the most honorablest of honorable. My bad for thinking people are human. 

Now can we get off that hijack.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I shouldnthave said:


> Hum, I guess I am “weird”.
> 
> I cheated a lot. Safe sex that means mandatory condoms was always part of it.
> 
> ...


This is just one man's opinion, but I see this as something somewhat different. 

I see this as not so much garden variety 'bored/frustrated wife and mother meets handsome charmer at work' or is a confluence of circumstances and chemistry but almost like it's own lifestyle choice. 

This shows a level of intent and methodology that is more than anything that was ever in my league. 

Now maybe I'm just being naïve and actually got played by some players but I see your experiences as more of a lifestyle choice rather than just getting some extra action on the side. 

Maybe this all comes down to what is your definition of a cheater or a sinner or a player or whatever you want to label it - and the answer is = "Anyone who does it with more forethought and methodology than me."


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Fine you win.
> @rockymountainyeti, Faithful Wife and Sokillme will never cheat under any circumstances for all of eternity and are the most honorablest of honorable. My bad for thinking people are human.
> 
> Now can we get off that hijack.


First, it's not about winning... it's about resisting false characterizations.

Second, it has nothing to do with trying to be the "most honorable." Quite the contrary, it's about acknowledging that all humans have this capacity if they choose to exercise it... and many do. I don't see myself as special in that regard. That's just the basics of what should be considered acceptable. I don't go fishing for compliments nor do I need your, or anybody else's validation for me to feel good about doing the right thing. 

Third, as noted above, I'm also thinking people are human... and part of being human is exercising the very human capacity to recognize right from wrong... and choose accordingly. That is a uniquely _human _ability. And many humans do so throughout their lives even when presented with the perfect set of circumstances for inducing them to do otherwise. 

And lastly, it's not a thread jack, because what was being discussed was the very thesis of the thread!

Look, I get the point that there is danger in blindly believing your marriage can never experience infidelity and that there is risk in blindly assuming your wife would never, ever do such a thing. That is sensible. I just don't buy some of the supposedly universal absolutes you use to justify that position. We would all be wise to tend to our marriages in ways that both ward off the impetus to stray and to be vigilant for signs of danger. 

For some, your experiences may be helpful in doing this. You've obviously got some experience, even if it is borne of despicable behavior, that may be beneficial to others. So kudos for trying to help. It's just going overboard to say this applies to everyone. If I thought for a second my wife could be so turned, she wouldn't be my wife, and she would say exactly the same about me. I'm not sure I can claim to have sexdar as finely tuned as FaithfulWife's, but I'm every bit as confident I've at got at least this much pinned down as you are that I given the right circumstances, neither my wife nor I can be trusted.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> First, it's not about winning... it's about resisting false characterizations.
> 
> Second, it has nothing to do with trying to be the "most honorable." Quite the contrary, it's about acknowledging that all humans have this capacity if they choose to exercise it... and many do. I don't see myself as special in that regard. That's just the basics of what should be considered acceptable. I don't go fishing for compliments nor do I need your, or anybody else's validation for me to feel good about doing the right thing.
> 
> ...


You may claim victory. 

You have won and will never cheat and your wife will never cheat. 

I am defeated so can we let this topic go please.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> You may claim victory.
> 
> You have won and will never cheat and your wife will never cheat.
> 
> I am defeated so can we let this topic go please.


You're still missing my point. It's not about proving that I (or my wife) would never cheat. 

I think FaithfulWife said it best, that your series of threads on this topic apply to _a particular segment _of people. How big or prominent that segment is, I honestly don't know. But your premise is that it's _everyone_, which is the problem. 

Hey, even if it's not everyone, many, especially those who _think _it's not them, may benefit from reading the benefits of your experience. It's never wrong to be armed with additional knowledge and other points of view.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> You're still missing my point. It's not about proving that I (or my wife) would never cheat.
> 
> I think FaithfulWife said it best, that your series of threads on this topic apply to _a particular segment _of people. How big or prominent that segment is, I honestly don't know. But your premise is that it's _everyone_, which is the problem.
> 
> Hey, even if it's not everyone, many, especially those who _think _it's not them, may benefit from reading the benefits of your experience. It's never wrong to be armed with additional knowledge and other points of view.


I'm not missing your point. 

I am saying you are wrong about mine. I am not saying and never said what you are saying I said. 

You are misquoting me and going off on your own diatribe on things that have nothing to do with my experiences or my posts. 

You have won and have defeated me. please rejoice in your victory and let this go.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I shouldnthave said:


> Hum, I guess I am “weird”.
> 
> I cheated a lot. Safe sex that means mandatory condoms was always part of it.
> 
> ...


I don't think you sound different at all, just careful. In fact you sound like exactly the kind of women his posts are about.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not missing your point.
> 
> I am saying you are wrong about mine. I am not saying and never said what you are saying I said.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what you think I've falsely attributed to you. You said it could happen any time, any where. You said that anyone can cheat under the right circumstances. I'm not sure how I could have mischaracterized that. It was pretty straightforward. 

Oh, and if you hadn't said those things, the I haven't "defeated you," because I haven't even been addressing you. 

But then again, I haven't been trying to "defeat you" no matter how much you are fixated on that interpretation... I've just been trying to say your assessment of potential for infidelity is not as universal as you have presented it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm not sure what you think I've falsely attributed to you. You said it could happen any time, any where. You said that anyone can cheat under the right circumstances. I'm not sure how I could have mischaracterized that. It was pretty straightforward.
> 
> Oh, and if you hadn't said those things, the I haven't "defeated you," because I haven't even been addressing you.
> 
> But then again, I haven't been trying to "defeat you" no matter how much you are fixated on that interpretation... I've just been trying to say your assessment of potential for infidelity is not as universal as you have presented it.


Then start your own thread and discuss whether certain people are incapable of cheating and will never cheat no matter what the circumstances are and have that discussion and debate on that thread.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Then start your own thread and discuss whether certain people are incapable of cheating and will never cheat no matter what the circumstances are and have that discussion and debate on that thread.


I never said I would never cheat. I also said I was and have been on both sides of this (the dynamic you describe).

That’s how I know.

There are some people who play like this and there are some people who never will. Having been on both sides, I can see either from a mile away.

I learned that there are some who won’t play that way. And even if I go out of my way to try to seduce one of them and succeed, it doesn’t always mean they were one of those people. Sometimes it just means the seducer was a complete creep and exploited everything they could just so they could prove to themselves that they could do it. The other person is not always of the same cheating caliber. Some people do just make a one time cheating mistake with a creep. They aren’t the same as the people Oldhhirt is describing.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Just curious - did you ever face any consequences for your actions ? Did any of the BH's beat the crap out of you or at least inflict some pain and damage ? Or did you get off scot-free for every single one of these affairs ? Did you ever have any other consequences like losing a job, or financial loss etc as a result ? Or even now as an older man, did the sons of the BH come after you now (I would imagine they could do some serious damage to you)? In short do you have to keep looking over your shoulder ? Or was it all just pure rewards with no consequences ?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Oldshirt is describing what that group of people do. And yes, they do each other. That's why he thinks it is "everyone". Because he is in that group and he meets and finds others in that group. Like attracts like. It is not hard to find others in that group if you are one of them. Then they seem to be everywhere to you as it seems to Oldshirt.


A very clear analysis. And people who cheat, or indeed people who steal, or cheat on their taxes, or get into fights, or drink to excess, or whatever, tend to sincerely believe that "everyone does it".

I would agree with the idea that those who think they are intrinsically immune, are often most at risk, and everyone would be wise to think about their personal boundaries and limits.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> We were two single people dating others at the time. ...
> Maybe it sucks that people hook up with someone before they break it off completely with the person/people they are dating at the time - but it is a reality.


Yeah, personally, I don't really count it as "cheating" when there is a small "overlap period" in changing partners in dating. Eg you have sex with the new partner once or twice before telling the old partner they're dumped. I'd be interested what others think.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> - the WW will have assistants, co-conspirators, affair-supporters and advocates for the OM. This is something that can be really hard to swallow as a BS, but many if not most WWs will have a variety of friends, relatives, coworkers etc that actually encourage and support the affair.........
> 
> They will also lie for her and be her alibi and her cover story.


Yes, and after your WW dies ? They come out of the woodwork with "confessions" about how your WW used their house for her shebangs. They don't want to "be the one" while the affair is going on..... the affair is juicy gossip fodder .....

This is the first time I read this on a website or saw it pointed out in the "self-help" literature, but it's worthy of note.....



Laurentium said:


> "everyone does it"


Yep. That's it. Everyone else does.....



Faithful Wife said:


> Like attracts like. It is not hard to find others in that group if you are one of them.


Exactly. And, it's like prison. If you weren't really a criminal when you went in, you will be when you come out. The naive and unassuming people find these "groups" and become one of them.....


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, personally, I don't really count it as "cheating" when there is a small "overlap period" in changing partners in dating. Eg you have sex with the new partner once or twice before telling the old partner they're dumped. I'd be interested what others think.


I think that's cheating and I'm pretty sure the person who gets told "I"m already ****ing someone new, so bye!!" feels like it's cheating. If you want to be with someone new, break up with your current partner and then go be with someone new. Otherwise you're just being cruel to your partner.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

Im am Serbian! I have honor and integrity! Im 40 years old and I never And I would Never cheat!! I would rather kill my self than cheat!! So speak for yourself when you say what every human will cheat.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Then start your own thread and discuss whether certain people are incapable of cheating and will never cheat no matter what the circumstances are and have that discussion and debate on that thread.


But I didn't need to make that point out of the blue... but it did need to be made in response to your false premise. When you start a thread, you can't expect that only those who blindly accept your wisdom will respond.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Dragan Jovanovic said:


> Im am Serbian! I have honor and integrity! Im 40 years old and I never And I would Never cheat!! I would rather kill my self than cheat!! So speak for yourself when you say what every human will cheat.


So fall in love with a Serbian, marry the,, and there will be no infidelity? Noted.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> The main thing I want people to understand from part 1 is that no one is immune and it can happen any time, any where.
> 
> There are a number of other things that I don't think many BHs/BSs can wrap their head around initially that people need to be aware of.
> 
> ...


Painting in broad brushstrokes. It's partly true, but also not in some cases.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

StarFires said:


> In fact, I completely believe mistreatment/abuse is the one real reason a wife has for cheating on her husband. And I don't care who dislikes or disagrees with that.


By “reason,” do you mean justification? Or do you mean that women never cheat unless the H is an abuser?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Betrayedone said:


> oldshirt said:
> 
> 
> > The main thing I want people to understand from part 1 is that no one is immune and it can happen any time, any where.
> ...


Lol too funny,......


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

"*the WW will have assistants, co-conspirators, affair-supporters and advocates for the OM.*" 

Actually that's the smartest and safest thing the WW can do. They want the OM to know that somebody knows who they are if anybody turns up missing. (even true from the OM perspective)


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> "*the WW will have assistants, co-conspirators, affair-supporters and advocates for the OM.*"
> 
> Actually that's the smartest and safest thing the WW can do. They want the OM to know that somebody knows who they are if anybody turns up missing. (even true from the OM perspective)


 I'm pretty sure that's not the reason for it though, just a safe by-product of wanting to brag and needing alibis and help with their scheming. Who better than their "go girls".


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

Dragan Jovanovic said:


> Im am Serbian! I have honor and integrity! Im 40 years old and I never And I would Never cheat!! I would rather kill my self than cheat!! So speak for yourself when you say what every human will cheat.



I went to grade school with a guy who is Serbian. When we were in middle school in the late 80s, he showed us a porn mag with scenes of actual hardcore sex. Today that's not that strange. Back then it was. In the US, there was only Playboy and Penthouse. At the end of the cold war, his family went back to Serbian to visit family. He got it while on that trip. To this day I don't understand how a 12 yr old ends up with a hardcore porn magazine. For the rest of my life, I will associate the morals of Serbia with that event.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

These threads are getting air time on station SI. The OP will be (in)famous.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Meh... My W did none this things during her A... And not because she just told me and I believed her, but because I read messages between them that confirmed a lot of details.... 
All this kinda just boils down to having an opportunity and being capable of acting like a total POS of a person that doesn't give crap about anything but themselves, not even the AP as much as people think (and as u also pointed out)


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> These threads are getting air time on station SI. The OP will be (in)famous.


Wow this thread is a blast from the past. 

It got linked on another recent thread so I have been getting some notifications on activity on this old thread the last few days so I looked it up to see what was going on here. 

But in regards to my supposed infamy on SI, when @Blondilocks above mentioned discussion on this on SI I tried to to register and reply to some things over on SI and was permabanned within the hour. 

I guess they don’t want to discuss this kind of stuff over there.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

*Another bitter truth is if the OM is taller, better looking, makes significantly more money, has a bigger Johnson and is better in bed and has a more interesting exciting lifestyle AND he wants her full-time and makes her a legitimate offer to be with him...…….. I am sorry but that isn't even going to be an "affair", she is simply going to pack up and go to him. Hypergamy is real.*

I agree with your entire post but differed slightly with you on this point. If the OM will have them full time, they will bounce regardless if the guy makes more money or has higher status. Once they are in wuv, they want to monkey branch. Breaking up her family and bringing instability to her kids will be outweighed. by her feelings of “being in love.”


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jsmart said:


> *Another bitter truth is if the OM is taller, better looking, makes significantly more money, has a bigger Johnson and is better in bed and has a more interesting exciting lifestyle AND he wants her full-time and makes her a legitimate offer to be with him...…….. I am sorry but that isn't even going to be an "affair", she is simply going to pack up and go to him. Hypergamy is real.*
> 
> I agree with your entire post but differed slightly with you on this point. If the OM will have them full time, they will bounce regardless if the guy makes more money or has higher status. Once they are in wuv, they want to monkey branch. Breaking up her family and bringing instability to her kids will be outweighed. by her feelings of “being in love.”


You’re likely correct that it won’t take all of those things to make someone monkey branch. 

My point though was if the OM man checks off all the boxes and tells her to pack up and join him, it’s pretty much a slam dunk. 

I do think it takes more than being ‘in wuv’ though. 

A lot of WWs are in wuv with the OM but choose to remain with the BH for financial and domestic reasons. 

As I said earlier in the thread, a lot of WWs have kind of the opposite of ILYBNILWY situation.

They are in wuv with the OM but do not love him or see him as legit husband or father material. 

In affairs that take place over space and time, this is usually the case.

If the OM checks off all the boxes and is also a better financial provider and better lover and child rearing partner, the BH might as well help her pack and move because that will get her out of the house and he can move on with his own life that much sooner.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Yea, that is sad and what I see in my years here and similar forums. 

In the inverse, do you think the reason most WHs stay is solely fear of divorce rape or not wanting to be downgraded to part time dad? Or do you think it has to do with men seeing an adulteress woman as a bad bet as a keeper?


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I speak from experience on this one. Essentially all of my affairs, the WW had cheerleaders and supporters of the affair. In one case, even the adolescent daughter of one of my WWs was encouraging the A because she did not like her step dad.


To clarify, you were the "OM" in a number of situations? In your younger years? How many? All before you married your wife? 



oldshirt said:


> - Another bitter truth is if the OM is taller, better looking, makes significantly more money, has a bigger Johnson and is better in bed and has a more interesting exciting lifestyle AND he wants her full-time and makes her a legitimate offer to be with him...…….. I am sorry but that isn't even going to be an "affair", she is simply going to pack up and go to him. Hypergamy is real.


So were you better in these respects than the BHs? Was that the hook that got the WWs with you?



Lostinthought61 said:


> having been a former OM in my youth i can tell you everything you have posted in both entries is exactly what i saw.


So were you better in these respects than the BHs? Was that the hook that got the WWs with you?

I guess that means the WW's husbands never had a chance. They were just betrayed men walking.



oldshirt said:


> Every cheater that ever drew a breath at one time or another said they would never cheat and in their heart of hearts at that time they really believed that.


So what are theinevitable cheaters to do with that fact?



oldshirt said:


> But the point I want to make in all of this is to the BSs and potential BSs out there to never make the mistake of thinking it is impossible for their spouse to cheat.


So what are the inevitable betrayed to do with that fact?



Faithful Wife said:


> That's why he thinks it is "everyone". Because he is WAS in that group and he met meets and found finds others in that group.


@oldshirt can correct if am wrong, but my take on his life's stories is his wild days are rather far in his past. I believe he has expressed longing for those days on numerous other posts. We all get old unfortunately.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

manfromlamancha said:


> Or was it all just pure rewards with no consequences ?


I will guess ( before @oldshirt replies ) that there were never consequences. That is usually how the real world actually works. Punishment for the innocent, Rewards for the guilty.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Rus, remember there’s 2 parts to an affair becoming the primary relationship. The woman wanting to jump, very common, and the man willing to take her on full time, very uncommon. I’d some of his past exploits would have been willing to leave their husband for him but , even in his hedonistic days, he knew such a woman was not a keeper.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jsmart said:


> Rus, remember there’s 2 parts to an affair becoming the primary relationship. The woman wanting to jump, very common, and the man willing to take her on full time, very uncommon. I’d some of his past exploits would have been willing to leave their husband for him but , even in his hedonistic days, he knew such a woman was not a keeper.


I guess all of the words could be summarized by saying humans are unbelievably reprehensible in their fallen (feril) state. Pretty common knowledge actually and no surprise at all.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

StarFires said:


> I believe and/or agree with everything you've stated in both threads, particularly that given the right (or wrong) circumstances, everyone will cheat. Nobody has any business explicitly trusting their spouse.
> 
> I just want to point out, regarding what I quoted above, that revenge is sometimes, maybe even often, the reason behind that. Lots of mistreated and downright abused women will (at least want to) have an affair to get back at her husband/boyfriend and receive him behind the OM because, in her mind and her eyes, it reduces him from his own superiority complex.
> 
> In fact, I completely believe mistreatment/abuse is the one real reason a wife has for cheating on her husband. And I don't care who dislikes or disagrees with that.


Yes, this is a common lament that one should question. It comes from a proven liar highly motivated to justify cheating to both herself and others. I'm d take it with a grain of salt.
With the new evidence of the prevalence of female on male domestic violence, plus , in many cases a highly developed ability and predisposition to emotional abuse from women, I'd venture it is more likely the husband was being abused in some fashion.


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> ….could be expected to do so until they choose not to.
> 
> It's a fools game to continue to argue this.
> 
> ...


May be best to have a contingency plan, then. I agree, lots of folks will cheat.

My mom, OTOH...


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> First, it's not about winning... it's about resisting false characterizations.
> 
> Second, it has nothing to do with trying to be the "most honorable." Quite the contrary, it's about acknowledging that all humans have this capacity if they choose to exercise it... and many do. I don't see myself as special in that regard. That's just the basics of what should be considered acceptable. I don't go fishing for compliments nor do I need your, or anybody else's validation for me to feel good about doing the right thing.
> 
> ...





manfromlamancha said:


> Just curious - did you ever face any consequences for your actions ? Did any of the BH's beat the crap out of you or at least inflict some pain and damage ? Or did you get off scot-free for every single one of these affairs ? Did you ever have any other consequences like losing a job, or financial loss etc as a result ? Or even now as an older man, did the sons of the BH come after you now (I would imagine they could do some serious damage to you)? In short do you have to keep looking over your shoulder ? Or was it all just pure rewards with no consequences ?


These are excellent points. Well argued.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not missing your point.
> 
> I am saying you are wrong about mine. I am not saying and never said what you are saying I said.
> 
> ...


True, he gave you a sound drubbing.


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

StarFires said:


> I agree with Oldshirt completely. Given the right circumstances, nobody is immune to cheating. Just because a person is sure (for whatever reasons moral or religious) they will never cheat only means they have not met with the right circumstances. Those who have cheated, despite their previous certainty that they never would, experienced the conditions that prompted their decision to go back on their previous words. That can happen to anyone and everyone.
> 
> *Coping With Infidelity Part 2*
> _I don't trust my wife completely and she doesn't trust me, and that's why neither of us have ever had an affair. Lack of trust does not make spouses paranoid and miserable, it makes their marriages safe._
> ...


Sounds like Willard Harley. I always found him to be a sexist moron( plus he appears a bit effeminate).


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, personally, I don't really count it as "cheating" when there is a small "overlap period" in changing partners in dating. Eg you have sex with the new partner once or twice before telling the old partner they're dumped. I'd be interested what others think.


That person may be forgoing similar opportunities in reliance on the agreement .,So, not honorable.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Jus260 said:


> I went to grade school with a guy who is Serbian. When we were in middle school in the late 80s, he showed us a porn mag with scenes of actual hardcore sex. Today that's not that strange. Back then it was. In the US, there was only Playboy and Penthouse. At the end of the cold war, his family went back to Serbian to visit family. He got it while on that trip. To this day I don't understand how a 12 yr old ends up with a hardcore porn magazine. For the rest of my life, I will associate the morals of Serbia with that event.


Ask Ted Bundy. Yeah, I know,,he is dead.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Well sh**. Seems like perpetual singlehood's the way to go then. If I end up cheating at some point, I hope the one I'm 'cheating' with is also single, lol.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jsmart said:


> Yea, that is sad and what I see in my years here and similar forums.
> 
> In the inverse, do you think the reason most WHs stay is solely fear of divorce rape or not wanting to be downgraded to part time dad? Or do you think it has to do with men seeing an adulteress woman as a bad bet as a keeper?


I don't think it's anything that complex with WHs. I think for many it is just getting some more on the side. In general men do not dump women for other women as much,,,,, they just add additional to the line up if they can.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I don't think it's anything that complex with WHs. I think for many it is just getting some more on the side. In general men do not dump women for other women as much,,,,, they just add additional to the line up if they can.


Cooking, cleaning, keeping the husband in his routine.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

manfromlamancha said:


> Just curious - did you ever face any consequences for your actions ? Did any of the BH's beat the crap out of you or at least inflict some pain and damage ? Or did you get off scot-free for every single one of these affairs ? Did you ever have any other consequences like losing a job, or financial loss etc as a result ? Or even now as an older man, did the sons of the BH come after you now (I would imagine they could do some serious damage to you)? In short do you have to keep looking over your shoulder ? Or was it all just pure rewards with no consequences ?


Well, it's only taken me a little over 3 years to see this post and respond. 

To answer the question, we never got caught in the classic sense. 

One of the WW's confessed on her own quite some time after she stopped coming around, I'm not sure why. When she was done with me, (she only came to my house a couple times) she asked me to not contact her or anything and I complied with her wishes and never saw or talked to her again. One day her H saw me driving through town and flipped me off and called me some colorful names out the car window but that was it. 

The only actual confrontation was my now wife's XBF when he finally realized she was serious about dumping him and was seeing me. He showed up on my front porch huffing and puffing one day. It did not get physical but he did not get what he wanted out of the deal. He turned back up on my front porch a few days later and lets just say he was not on the porch for very long. 

It did actually become an issue of stalking and harassment for which the police became involved but he was mostly stalking my now wife. That came to an end when one day when I caught him driving by my house the very next morning after the police had paid him their 3rd or 4th visit and after my now wife and I had filed formal written complaints and the police were going to file stalking and harassment charges on him. 

Instead of calling the police, I got in my car and took off after him and we had a bit of a high speed chase through town until he made a wrong turn and got stuck behind a train at some railroad tracks and I blocked his car in and invited him to step out and discuss it further. 

He declined the offer and stayed in the car with the doors locked. He may have made a few phone calls to her after that but never messed with me any more after that. 

Which brings me to something I have said before on the forums if not earlier in this thread - 9 times out of 10, the OM will scatter like roaches in the light when confronted. They usually are just in it for the poon. 

But if the OM actually wants the WW fulltime and is willing to stand and fight, it's usually game over for the BH. 

Even if it comes to fisticuffs and the BH beats up the OM, if the OM is willing to stand and fight, The WW will often see that as the OM being willing to take a beating for her.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> But if the OM actually wants the WW fulltime and is willing to stand and fight, it's usually game over for the BH.


There is also a strong sense of loyalty among some WWs which never fades. 

OM1.2 who stole from a woman with Alzheimer's was still thought of as innocent by my W some years ago, she said, "that's not the OM1.2 that I knew"

The most trivial offense I might make is seen as worse and remembered. 

It reminds me of the Manson family girls who remained true to Charlie Manson.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Well, it's only taken me a little over 3 years to see this post and respond.
> 
> To answer the question, we never got caught in the classic sense.
> 
> ...


Oh I see - you're a tough guy! At least on this forum you are. I was trying to understand if you really got into it with someone who could really injure you like @No Longer Lonely Husband who I know you would not want to tangle with (he comes from similar stock to me).


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> Oh I see - you're a tough guy! At least on this forum you are. I was trying to understand if you really got into it with someone who could really injure you like @No Longer Lonely Husband who I know you would not want to tangle with (he comes from similar stock to me).


lol 😂 indeed sir. I could have done severe physical damage to POSOM, however, I was able to refrain. The fun was messing with him psychologically when I told him “not if but when” when he was on the other side of the gas pump shortly after we started R.

POSOMs arrogance in this post shows.

it is not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog, and a BH can be like a cornered animal as you know @manfromlamancha


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> lol 😂 indeed sir. I could have done severe physical damage to POSOM, however, I was able to refrain. The fun was messing with him psychologically when I told him “not if but when” when he was on the other side of the gas pump shortly after we started R.
> 
> POSOMs arrogance in this post shows.
> 
> it is not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog, and a BH can be like a cornered animal as you know @manfromlamancha


It doesn't matter a small a man, he can still burn down your house or poison your water supply. 😛

That's always my first thought when bigger people say to smaller people, " What're you gonna do about it?"


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

manfromlamancha said:


> Oh I see - you're a tough guy! At least on this forum you are. I was trying to understand if you really got into it with someone who could really injure you like @No Longer Lonely Husband who I know you would not want to tangle with (he comes from similar stock to me).


No Not a tough guy, just a horny one with poor boundaries. I do advocate the BS confronting the AP because the vast majority of the time the AP is just getting some cheap and easy sex and doesn’t want any trouble or for it to cost them anything. 

The thing that was different with my now wife is at the time her XBF was causing problems she and I were together and were a couple and HE was the interloper. 

She had formally broken up with him and my XGF and I had formerly broken up and my now wife and I were openly dating each other legitimately. She and I were the couple and he was the stalker trying to move in. At least that is how we saw it and how the police saw it. 

If any of the actual BH’s had showed up looking for a showdown, I would have said she’s all yours, count me out and I would have ran the other way.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> She had formally broken up with him and my XGF and I had formerly broken up and my now wife and I were openly dating each other legitimately. She and I were the couple and he was the stalker trying to move in. At least that is how we saw it and how the police saw it.


This is an important point to make and where BS’s can get into trouble. 

If someone is unaware their spouse is having an A and they come home unexpectedly and find their WS in bed with an AP and they make minced meat out of the AP, the cops, the judge and jury and even society as a whole will have some understanding and perhaps even a little grace. 

However, once there has been an official break up and the BS has been duly informed of the break up and especially if the BSand AP are now openly involved with each other and consider themselves the couple, everything changes in regards to the law and societal outlook etc.

If the BS comes around and causes trouble or makes threats or initiates any physical confrontations, they will be the one getting hauled away in handcuffs to meet with the judge in a bright orange jumpsuit the next day, and they will be the ones that all the friends and family will think went off the rails and if any incidents make the news, they will be the one painted as the psycho and problem child by the media. 

To this day 30 years later, I see my wife’s XBF as the stalker and as a criminal and as a wannabe OM. If he were to come sniffing around now, I would react with the same righteous indignation as any BH and would want to tear his head off and fck his neck hole. It does not matter one iota to me that he was there first. 

But in the initial days of my now wife and I seeing each other on the down low, if he had caught us and confronted me, I probably would have ran off like roaches in the light. 

The key differentiation is often how the WS and AP see themselves and if the WS has has formally notified the BS of the end of the relationship/marriage. Once that happens, the BS becomes yesterdays news and in the eyes of the WS, AP, the law, the media and society as a whole, he/she becomes the interloper and problem child. 

I advocate the BS confronting the AP because at least in the case of a male OM, 9 times out of 10 he will turn tail and run because he’s usually just in it for the cheap and easy poon. 
(
OW can be more territorial from the get-go so it may be a little different with an OW)

But If the AP and WS see themselves as the rightful couple and the AP is invested in the relationship, they can see themselves as the right partner and will see the BS as the intruder and can react accordingly. 

In those situations, in the eyes of the WS, AP and even the eyes of the law and greater society, it doesn’t matter who came first.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I advocate the BS confronting the AP because at least in the case of a male OM, 9 times out of 10 he will turn tail and run because he’s usually just in it for the cheap and easy poon.


But, here is the thing. The woman already made her choice and the BS isn't it. She chose the OM. So what good does it do to chase him off? Or do him bodily harm. SHE chose who she wanted. Full stop. If wife decides she doesn't want me, then I don't want her either. The OM could have her. SHE isn't worth keeping one more second. SHE has shown she is a skank. Once one always one. Time to move on.

There was another thread by a BH who has left the room. He had no idea what was going on until he arrived home unexpectedly from a long day at work to sounds of his wife moaning and growning, skin slapping, opens his bedroom to find the local Safeway manager with BH's wife bent over on HIS bed banging her hard. He put the guy in a headlock, and pulled the OM out of her and onto the floor, whereupon the wife starts beating on HIM, telling him to stop he is hurting the OM. So the wife made her choice. No point in doing harm to the OM, it won't change anything except to maybe put the BH in jail.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I was thinking about that case where the WW started wailing on BH as well. 

I don’t disagree with your premise per se.

I do still recommend the BS calling out the AP however for the reasons I have stated. I think the vast majority of the time the OM will exit stage left as fast as he can. (OW may be a little different, but I would still advocate a BW confronting OW. Sometimes the OW doesn’t even know the WH is married). 

Whether the BS wants to try to reconcile with the WS at that point is up to him/her. 

It doesn’t even have to be about trying to keep the WS or “winning” them back. It’s about shining the light on the situation and bringing it into the light in the open. 

Much of affairs is about sneaking some extra and getting away with some extra fun and passion without it costing anything. 

Bringing it into the light adds a big price tag that most do not want to pay.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

jsmart said:


> ... do you think the reason most WHs stay is solely fear of divorce rape or not wanting to be downgraded to part time dad? Or do you think it has to do with men seeing an adulteress woman as a bad bet as a keeper?


I think it's *all* of those things, AND that most WHs just want some sex and intimacy because they're not fully satisfied at home. The hot and exciting wife became the dull and boring mother, or her interest in him and sex has cooled with time as often happens with women after a year in a relationship. The reverse happens, too, just not to the same degree or as often.

Livescience: 'research is demonstrating what many people already knew from experience: Women lose interest in sex over time, while men don't.' & 'women reported lower levels of desire depending on the length of their relationship. "Specifically, for each additional month women in this study were in a relationship with their partner, their sexual desire decreased by 0.02 on the Female Sexual Function Index," '

Forbes: 'that lack of interest in sex was higher among women who had been in a relationship for more than a year. In fact, women who had been in a relationship between 1 and 5 years were 45% more likely to have lost interest in sex than those who had been in a relationship for less than a year.'

GoodTherapy: 'Women’s desire levels are generally lower to start with. And we don’t need decades of research to know that men usually think more about sex, fantasize more about it, work harder to get it, place more importance on it, initiate it more often, and masturbate more. What seems to ignite desire for women is the excitement and novelty of a budding new romance.' & '
marriage made sex so available and so sanctioned that it lost the forbidden and erotic quality that had formerly ignited passion. For other women, overfamiliarity with their husband led to a decline in romance and in sexual experimentation, as well as a loss of motivation to care for their appearance now that they had “hooked their man.”

A third group of women reported that holding down a job, being mom, and being a wife was overwhelming and “highly desexualizing,” making it extremely difficult to shift into romantic mode after changing diapers and fulfilling their professional roles. Many of the participants in all three groups specifically noted that while they were committed to their marriage, _they thought desire would return if someone new came along who desired them_.'


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I do still recommend the BS calling out the AP however for the reasons I have stated. I think the vast majority of the time the OM will exit stage left as fast as he can. (OW may be a little different, but I would still advocate a BW confronting OW. Sometimes the OW doesn’t even know the WH is married).


So the OM runs off. The woman will just chase after him. They can still get together on the down low but just more cautious. Or alternatively, she finds some other guy to f**k. There are like 4 billion of them on the planet. So the betrayed has achieved nothing but *maybe* feeling better within himself. He still no longer has a wife, but a skank living in his house eating on his dime.

Everyone is different, there have been plenty of men who reconciled after their wives got with even multiple men. One guy who used to post on TAM was married to a woman who had 2 APs for years and she even one of their kids. He got into physical fights with one of her APs. 

For me, if my wife had another man inside her, she would be dead to me. She made a choice and it wasn't me. The OM would have "won", I would have lost. I wouldn't care what or who she did from that time forward. Once, even a ONS, would be all it would take for me to be unable to stand the sight of her, let alone touch her.

Where I do think a confrontation is way appropriate is when a potential suitor begins sniffing around. Before anything has developed.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> So the OM runs off. The woman will just chase after him. They can still get together on the down low but just more cautious. Or alternatively, she finds some other guy to f**k. There are like 4 billion of them on the planet. So the betrayed has achieved nothing but *maybe* feeling better within himself. He still no longer has a wife, but a skank living in his house eating on his dime.
> 
> Everyone is different, there have been plenty of men who reconciled after their wives got with even multiple men. One guy who used to post on TAM was married to a woman who had 2 APs for years and she even one of their kids. He got into physical fights with one of her APs.
> 
> ...


I agree. Why demean yourself fighting over trash. There are other fish in the sea.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> So the OM runs off. The woman will just chase after him. They can still get together on the down low but just more cautious. Or alternatively, she finds some other guy to f**k. There are like 4 billion of them on the planet. So the betrayed has achieved nothing but *maybe* feeling better within himself. He still no longer has a wife, but a skank living in his house eating on his dime.
> 
> Everyone is different, there have been plenty of men who reconciled after their wives got with even multiple men. One guy who used to post on TAM was married to a woman who had 2 APs for years and she even one of their kids. He got into physical fights with one of her APs.
> 
> ...


I don’t disagree with your premise. 

I think most of the rhetoric we see about BS’s whomping on the AP is mostly to stroke their own ego and exert their own sense of control and dominance.

But I think the actual effectiveness of that depends on a lot of factors.

I agree with you that if it is in the case of a wannabe OM sniffing around, it could nip some problems in the bud. HOWEVER, I think the first phase of that should be from the WW herself. I think the initial onus should be on her to schew away any wannabe.

If she does NOT schew him away, then there is an actual problem taking place within the relationship and there is an issue with not only the wannabe OM but with the soon-to-be WW as well.

I do think addressing the OM will send most them scurrying away like rats leaving a sinking ship….. but now you still have the sinking ship (the sinking marriage) on your hands. 

This is where the BH has to weigh the risks vs benefits of confrontation. He may get rid of the rats, but does he actual want the sinking ship anymore??

If the answer is no, then the risk/benefit really needs to be weighed.

If he does want to try to keep the WW, then how things pan out will depend heavily on how developed the affair is and how in wuv with the OM the WW is and how invested the OM is in continuing the relationship.

IMHO in most instances if the OM in invested and motivated to have the WW, it doesn’t matter how big and tough and mean the WH is.

It’s not a simple matter of which one wins the physical fight, the WW will find the way to justify which she wants to be with even if that means waiting for the OM to get out of the hospital. 

In most states a spouse cannot be compelled to testify against their spouse.

But I have seen WWs voluntarily testify against their BHs that have seriously injured and even killed the OM. 

And as I said in my earlier post, in cases where the WS has officially broken up with the BS and is openly involved with the AP, the law and public sentiment is clearly on the side of the new couple and the BS will be putting him/herself at great legal risk.

A case that comes to my mind is Betty Broderick who shot and killed her exWH husband and his new wife (OW) in their sleep. 

He actual defense was that it was an accidental shooting and that she didn’t mean to shoot both of them in their sleep in their bedroom in the middle of the night, she was just wanting to scare them and the gun went off. 

When all that was going on, she actually seemed surprised that she was being labeled as the scorned woman and crazy ex and that people were wanting to send her away for life. She thought she had the high ground.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

I’m not that much into revenge as being a useful thing, but if attacking or in any other way emasculating the OM, in a public (at least WW knows) manner, could make me feel good about the idea that, maybe she’s not going to be with me, but she might lose respect for her AP who has shown the he’ll not be the knight in shining armor for her at her own time of need. Her AP is going to run away.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Megaforce said:


> I agree. Why demean yourself fighting over trash. There are other fish in the sea.


I would not fight over trash, she is gone, but the fact an AP disrespected me would still be a matter that would not go unanswered. I'm not a public person, in fact I would not want the "public" to know I harbor animosity toward the AP who disrespected me. 

I'm a lot like Clint said. "Sometimes you come across someone that you realize you should have never F'ed with, well that's me"


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

How anyone descends to the level of being an OM, especially multiple times, is beyond me, thankfully. Takes a special kind.


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