# Cheaters & Ego Kibbles



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Ego Kibbles

April 28, 2012 by Chump Lady

Cheating is a profoundly narcissistic act. (Of course, cheaters don’t see it that way. Usually they cast it as selflessly liberating someone from the oppressive bonds of sexless marriage to a jerk…)

But really cheating just all boils down to – ego kibbles. Cheaters need ego kibbles. Lots and lots of kibbles. Shrinks call ego kibbles “narcissistic supply,” but I prefer to think in terms of Narcissist Ego Chow. Cheaters need to feed. They need lots and lots of validation that they’re special, sexy, and understood by only a special chosen few. Problem is, ego kibbles are not very sating, and so they always need more. Part of that problem is the cheater – they’ve got a hole in their soul where empathy and connection should be. So, a person can shovel ego kibbles at the cheater, but they don’t fill up.

(read the rest here)


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*So aptly describes my RSXW ... to an absolute tee!

"Kibble-up," Sweetheart! Right along with your money, there's always more where that came from! 

And as for the guys who can't really afford to pay your financial price, "kibbling" should be the preemptive economic means of getting you to spread your rich, skanky thighs for them!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Good article though nothing we do not already know I guess


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Yep, cheaters, and maybe in particular serial cheaters, lack the innate ability to empathize with their own spouse. Selfish creatures.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Curious really, I avoid an dating entire group of women based on the vibe they give me, one of irresponsibility, lack of accountability, blameshifting, lack of understanding of the value of trust, honor, etc etc. A date who goes on about how bad her ex is, with little regard to her own failings, is one example.

I dunno, I always found those to be signs of a potential cheater, and so far, I've been safe, though admittedly, picky where I invest my emotions, as trust for me is always earned. In the end, it comes down to character no?


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Curious really, I avoid an dating entire group of women based on the vibe they give me, one of irresponsibility, lack of accountability, blameshifting, lack of understanding of the value of trust, honor, etc etc. A date who goes on about how bad her ex is, with little regard to her own failings, is one example.
> 
> I dunno, I always found those to be signs of a potential cheater, and so far, I've been safe, though admittedly, picky where I invest my emotions, as trust for me is always earned. In the end, it comes down to character no?


RD, I was reading some other Chump Lady posts and the one I just finished speaks to your points. You're the parent.
When You're the Parent in the Relationship - ChumpLady.com


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I love Chump Lady. She got (and still gets) me through some dark times. It's a shame that it takes common experience - company in our misery - to help us. Because I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Except my ex-husband and his girlfriend.

Everything at CL is true. My ex can't get enough of the ego kibble his GF is dishing out, apparently, because he tries to text me daily about what's going on in his life as if we are still married. Apparently, there's some void that she now isn't filling. It takes (at least) two women to satisfy his every need.

I've finally realized that and started ignoring him unless it's directly about our son. All business, at last. He'll have to try to get everything he needs from one person again, and once again will find that that's never enough.

I do think my wish will come true for both of them. He'll drop her like a bad habit the second something he thinks is better comes along (he's already complaining about her "issues"), and he'll probably someday get cheated on, himself, because of his lousy judgement of character.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Curious really, I avoid an dating entire group of women based on the vibe they give me, one of irresponsibility, lack of accountability, blameshifting, lack of understanding of the value of trust, honor, etc etc. A date who goes on about how bad her ex is, with little regard to her own failings, is one example.
> 
> I dunno, I always found those to be signs of a potential cheater, and so far, I've been safe, though admittedly, picky where I invest my emotions, as trust for me is always earned. In the end, it comes down to character no?


I used to do this when interviewing for employees, both men and women, I rarely cared about hearing how qualified they felt they were for a job. They all tell me they are great and perfect for job. I always wanted to get them talking about prior jobs etc. It's was still amazing to me how they would badmouth, grind and complain about being treated unfairly or "not my fault" type stuff. 

I very rarely hired "the whiner" and they few times I did I regretted it.


----------



## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

I really hate being the one getting the bill for the kibble. It might always be on sale, but its never cheap.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Yep, cheaters, and maybe in particular serial cheaters, lack the innate ability to empathize with their own spouse. Selfish creatures.


I think this line from the article reall nails cheaters for what they are:

*"Cheaters prefer kibbles to love. Love requires reciprocity and connection. Love is messy and demanding. Kibbles are easier.*


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thinkitthrough said:


> I really hate being the one getting the bill for the kibble. It might always be on sale, but its never cheap.


Absolutly right @Thinkitthrough the cheater gets all the fun, the sex, the adventure and the BS has to pay the [email protected]#$%^& bill. Their tears, and "remorse" are frequently about facing the consequences and not the damage they caused to their family.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Curious really, I avoid an dating entire group of women based on the vibe they give me, one of irresponsibility, lack of accountability, blameshifting, lack of understanding of the value of trust, honor, etc etc. A date who goes on about how bad her ex is, with little regard to her own failings, is one example.
> 
> I dunno, I always found those to be signs of a potential cheater, and so far, I've been safe, though admittedly, picky where I invest my emotions, as trust for me is always earned. *In the end, it comes down to character no*?



Dead on!! BSs face the same problems as the cheater but don't jump into another persons bed to deal with them.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *So aptly describes my RSXW ... to an absolute tee!
> 
> "Kibble-up," Sweetheart! Right along with your money, there's always more where that came from!
> 
> ...


You do have a way with words. lol


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Ego Kibbles
> 
> April 28, 2012 by Chump Lady
> 
> ...


This is good, in as far as it goes.

But there are other reasons that cheating might occur.

Victims of sexual abuse as children or of rape, even sometimes as adults, can become unfaithful as a result of using sex to try to regain control over their lives.

This has nothing to do with their faithful spouse, but everything to do with the dreadful damage that was done to them, often years earlier.

And people who have been cheated on can sometimes have affairs in order to see if someone, *anyone*, might do something their cheating spouse doesn't do. Someone who finds them attractive and desirable.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> This is good, in as far as it goes.
> 
> But there are other reasons that cheating might occur.
> 
> ...


You know I'm an agnostic on RAs but isn't what yu have described another form of seeking ego kibbles?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> You know I'm an agnostic on RAs but isn't what yu have described another form of seeking ego kibbles?


It is to fill a hole in the heart put their by someone you should have been able to trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> It is to fill a hole in the heart put their by someone you should have been able to trust.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You will get no argument from me on that point...


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Pluto2 said:


> Yep, cheaters, and maybe in particular serial cheaters, lack the innate ability to empathize with their own spouse. Selfish creatures.


Agreed... but the some undiscovered Serial Cheaters can also be a master in playing the good person part. On the outside a "nice" person... Sunday school teachers, very gracious to others in need. Like and respected.

Maybe a cover for their Secret life of cheating, maybe a coping mech for their world of cheating. More than likely, just another way to feed their ego with attention.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> You will get no argument from me on that point...


I respected my wife. I really did. 

But that didn't stop me from having a RA.

It wasn't a lack of respect it was resentment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I respected my wife. I really did.
> 
> But that didn't stop me from having a RA.
> 
> ...


Your wife's initial A was due to a lck of respect for you and I'd argue that your RA was made possible by a decrease in respect for your WW...


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

RWB said:


> Agreed... but the some undiscovered Serial Cheaters can also be a master in playing the good person part. On the outside a "nice" person... Sunday school teachers, very gracious to others in need. Like and respected.
> 
> Maybe a cover for their Secret life of cheating, maybe a coping mech for their world of cheating. More than likely, just another way to feed their ego with attention.


That does not shock me at all..being good at lying and deceiving and be comfortable with living a lie will leak into other non-A related areas of your life....serial cheaters are simply untrustworthy.....


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

A strategically place RA can be just the medicine a wayward needs to realize the full scope of their betrayal. It is the ultimate payback because the bs already KNOWS how bad it hurts yet still hands out such a major punishment. If the wayward spouse has ANY emotions left in them after the affair itself, the RA finishes them off. The damage of waywardness, with recognition/repentance followed up with a RA is the end of their emotional psyche. Thats why you do not want to enter an affair unless you KNOW you are leaving. It gives too much power to the bs to retaliate.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> A strategically place RA can be just the medicine a wayward needs to realize the full scope of their betrayal. It is the ultimate payback because the bs already KNOWS how bad it hurts yet still hands out such a major punishment. If the wayward spouse has ANY emotions left in them after the affair itself, the RA finishes them off. The damage of waywardness, with recognition/repentance followed up with a RA is the end of their emotional psyche. Thats why you do not want to enter an affair unless you KNOW you are leaving. It gives too much power to the bs to retaliate.



I think context is important. What happens if the BS is an abusive person, wouldn't then betrayal be punishment since they betrayed the WS in terms of treatment.

I am not sure if you know daydream, but she was abused emotionally, physically, and emotionally blackmailed by her husband. His actions made her into a highly unstable person. Does he not then have responsibility into her dysfunctional state. Her brother committed suicide and her husband threatened her with suicide if she left him. Most of us have no point of reference to understand and it is easy to state just leave instead of cheat, that you do not deserve to be happy if you are a cheater, but as a BS, you deserve a better spouse when sometimes the BS themselves are responsible for their actions that destroy that bond.

People can do that experiment if their actions have no sway in how others feel. Just treat everyone in a negative manner and watch people distance themselves and replace the offender. We have a drive for connection. That is why I am not much of a moralist. Context is highly important.

Even if someone like coppertop cheated, I would have no sympathy for his wife.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> A strategically place RA can be just the medicine a wayward needs to realize the full scope of their betrayal. It is the ultimate payback because the bs already KNOWS how bad it hurts yet still hands out such a major punishment. If the wayward spouse has ANY emotions left in them after the affair itself, the RA finishes them off. The damage of waywardness, with recognition/repentance followed up with a RA is the end of their emotional psyche. Thats why you do not want to enter an affair unless you KNOW you are leaving. It gives too much power to the bs to retaliate.


It can work in some cases in others it can not. What people fail to realize in the heat of the moment is the affair does two things - it sucker punchs the BS and destroys their self-worth. An Ra in the heat of dday will do none of this to the WS since they are expecting it and it could actually help them feel better about themselves. In order to have a real RA you would have to accomplish what the original affair did. You are correct it would have to be properly timed and with a partner that is viewed as a threat to the WS. Some random pick up at a bar in the heat of dday will do no such thing.

Also an affair in not the only vehicle to sucker punch the WS and destroy their self-worth if that is what you desire.


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> It can work in some cases in others it can not. What people fail to realize in the heat of the moment is the affair does two things - it sucker punchs the BS and destroys their self-worth. An Ra in the heat of dday will do none of this to the WS since they are expecting it and it could actually help them feel better about themselves. In order to have a real RA you would have to accomplish what the original affair did. You are correct it would have to be properly timed and with a partner that is viewed as a threat to the WS. Some random pick up at a bar in the heat of dday will do no such thing.
> 
> Also an affair in not the only vehicle to sucker punch the WS and destroy their self-worth if that is what you desire.


It is a sucker punch to WS if they are desperately trying to save their marriage. They can expect it all they want but until they experience it, then their hurt hits home in its fullest strength. And yes, not a one night stand, the RA partner has to be a perceived viable companion for the bs such that the tables are completely turned onto the wayward. This includes date nights, meeting mutual friends, etc. I've seen this and it worked. WS while reeling from the pain, regained respect for the bs. Its no different than punching a bully square in the face and knocking them out. Then extending a hand afterwards and helping them up off the ground. The stars have to align to pull this off but I've seen it. Chalk one up for the betrayeds!!


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> It is a sucker punch to WS if they are desperately trying to save their marriage. They can expect it all they want but until they experience it, then their hurt hits home in its fullest strength. And yes, not a one night stand, the RA partner has to be a perceived viable companion for the bs such that the tables are completely turned onto the wayward. This includes date nights, meeting mutual friends, etc. I've seen this and it worked. WS while reeling from the pain, regained respect for the bs. Its no different than punching a bully square in the face and knocking them out. Then extending a hand afterwards and helping them up off the ground. The stars have to align to pull this off but I've seen it. Chalk one up for the betrayeds!!


I think RAs are more common than we think and sometimes the BS does what I outlined by accident with no planning at all. The key is the timing and the choice of an AP - I think the only way the Ws truly knows what they have done it to experience it first hand...but in some cases the BS could bed down half the country and run off and marry a wealthy model and the WS would not care - since its all about them.


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think RAs are more common than we think and sometimes the BS does what I outlined by accident with no planning at all. The key is the timing and the choice of an AP - I think the only way the Ws truly knows what they have done it to experience it first hand...but in some cases the BS could bed down half the country and run off and marry a wealthy model and the WS would not care - since its all about them.


Agreed, and yes, it has to be well planned/thought out for maximum effect.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Agreed, and yes, it has to be well planned/thought out for maximum effect.


People get so bogged down in the sex aspect that they forget what really did the damage was a variety of things and not just the sex. I don't judge BSs who have RAs - I think they need to do what is necessary to help them heal.


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> People get so bogged down in the sex aspect that they forget what really did the damage was a variety of things and not just the sex. I don't judge BSs who have RAs - I think they need to do what is necessary to help them heal.


Yeah, and as we hear on other threads, anger/resentment are sky high w BS so a RA can go a long way to relieving these feelings, A REAL LONG WAY! DUDE


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Yeah, and as we hear on other threads, anger/resentment are sky high w BS so a RA can go a long way to relieving these feelings, A REAL LONG WAY! DUDE


I would agree - the Bs needs to do with they need to do to heal...


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I would agree - the Bs needs to do with they need to do to heal...


And I would take it a step further, not only can the BS heal, their growth(Striving) as a human can be exponential, especially if they take the time during their darkest hour to self reflect and review what they could have done better in the marriage, REGARDLESS of what their spouse did or did not do...Then they can become complete which is better than they were before and therefore the betrayal indirectly helped them(This is really hard to grasp until you get there) DUDE


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Your wife's initial A was due to a lck of respect for you and I'd argue that your RA was made possible by a decrease in respect for your WW...


My wife told me that she still loved me, that it wasn't my fault. But that she needed the affair to get closure.


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> My wife told me that she still loved me, that it wasn't my fault. But that she needed the affair to get closure.


Closure on what?  Her marriage?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dude007 said:


> Closure on what? Her marriage?


Her ex-boyfriend.

I lived through the reality of this song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J14rYd1aFu8

And it f**king sucked.



> I was afraid he'd come back some day
> And I'd be the one to lose
> I know when you saw him
> You wouldn't ignore him
> And he'd be the one you'd choose


Still, I won. We are still together.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Her ex-boyfriend.
> 
> I lived through the reality of this song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J14rYd1aFu8
> 
> ...


Your wife is lucky you didn't toss her out...permanently. I still don't get your extreme guilt over your RA given what she did..she not exactly a sympathetic victim.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Your wife is lucky you didn't toss her out...permanently. I still don't get your extreme guilt over your RA given what she did..she not exactly a sympathetic victim.


I do, I think.
Matt loves his wife. He knows what she did was a betrayal and wrong, and he knows he did the same think for all the wrong reasons. He, I think, deeply wishes he had not had a RA and that he was stronger at that moment.

These things are not tit for tat. @MattMatt, sorry if I'm off base with this.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Your wife is lucky you didn't toss her out...permanently. I still don't get your extreme guilt over your RA given what she did..she not exactly a sympathetic victim.


She was sexually abused as a young girl, was bullied and abused mentally and physically by most of her family because they were scared of her for being much cleverer than they were and because she was different as a result of being a high functiontng Asperger's.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> I do, I think.
> Matt loves his wife. He knows what she did was a betrayal and wrong, and he knows he did the same think for all the wrong reasons. He, I think, deeply wishes he had not had a RA and that he was stronger at that moment.
> 
> These things are not tit for tat. @MattMatt, sorry if I'm off base with this.


I understand that but I think his guilt was disproportionate to what actually happened. Matt shouldn't beat himself up over it.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> I do, I think.
> Matt loves his wife. He knows what she did was a betrayal and wrong, and he knows he did the same think for all the wrong reasons. He, I think, deeply wishes he had not had a RA and that he was stronger at that moment.
> 
> These things are not tit for tat. @MattMatt, sorry if I'm off base with this.


On the contrary you were on target. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She was sexually abused as a young girl, was bullied and abused mentally and physically by most of her family because they were scared of her for being much cleverer than they were and because she was different as a result of being a high functiontng Asperger's.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is very said Matt. My point was perhaps i needed to say it clearer - you are a decent loving husband. Dont be too hard on yourself for the RA.


----------

