# So could my wife be asexual?



## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

Well another post here caught my attention... it was this post here, to which I had replied my situation: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...nts-now-extremely-confused-4.html#post9720786

Now I can't even figure out, if this is really a thing... and if my wife really might be asexual and either doesn't realize it, or does but either way just does what she needs to do to fulfill her commitment to me etc.

Definitely frustrating, and reading some of this stuff is quite depressing.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

James2020 said:


> Well another post here caught my attention... it was this post here, to which I had replied my situation: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...nts-now-extremely-confused-4.html#post9720786
> 
> Now I can't even figure out, if this is really a thing... and if my wife really might be asexual and either doesn't realize it, or does but either way just does what she needs to do to fulfill her commitment to me etc.
> 
> Definitely frustrating, and reading some of this stuff is quite depressing.


At least if she is asexual you can accept that is what she is.

You don't have to tie your sex life to a woman who is asexual or a woman who discovered she's really a lesbian.

If that's what she is, divorce and be a friend.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

I guess I'm more trying to figure out if that's what's really happening or not? This whole "asexual" thing is new to me... I don't know if I am looking at the facts wrong, or if this is really what I am dealing with and need to consider. Not even sure how I can be sure, or even how she could be sure for that matter.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

James2020 said:


> I guess I'm more trying to figure out if that's what's really happening or not? This whole "asexual" thing is new to me... I don't know if I am looking at the facts wrong, or if this is really what I am dealing with and need to consider. Not even sure how I can be sure, or even how she could be sure for that matter.


Did you have any valid concerns before you read the other post here?

If not, then she can be asexual, a lesbian, and an alien from another planet. And the more you read and take to heart uncensored stuff written by general public, the more evidences of all three you will find.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

rubymoon said:


> Did you have any valid concerns before you read the other post here?
> 
> If not, then she can be asexual, a lesbian, and an alien from another planet. And the more you read and take to heart uncensored stuff written by general public, the more evidences of all three you will find.


I definitely get what you mean there hah!

The thing is, I never had concerns before because I never even really knew what "asexual" was, that it existed, what it entailed etc. So having read the post, suddenly a lot of the things it describes kind of match up with what I am experiencing (and to some extent, what I am experiencing is even worse!) so I guess that's what grabbed my attention and kind of freaked me out


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

This might help:

Overview | The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org

And this:

Relationship FAQ | The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> This might help:
> 
> Overview | The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org
> 
> ...


I must say, reading the "For Sexuals" part of that second link... it really strikes home on a lot of levels. It's extremely hurtful to read/realize, I'm hoping it's not that simple.

Will have to figure out an extremely subtle and gentle way to bring this to her attention... certainly just asking her would result in nothing but a massive argument....

Sigh... things just never seem to get easier.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Asexuality is relatively rare, so it's much more likely that she's just not into you. But anything is possible. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

PBear said:


> Asexuality is relatively rare, so it's much more likely that she's just not into you. But anything is possible.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What stood out the MOST for me was how masturbation and pornography are described, this is EXACTLY how she explained her porn watching to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Since there's no good sexuality meter (I should ask the lab interns to build one) the asexuality pages are filled with generalities that can be bent towards any desired outcome...


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

I agree John. Despite of what the "evidence" might suggest, I think I will for the time being assume my wife is NOT asexual. Reading more posts and things, in some ways it seems like a lot of LD/ND spouses could just be labelled as asexual... it almost seems too convenient, plus the fact that even these pages say someone could be sexual, then asexual, then not again... so what's the point.

Back to reality


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

PBear said:


> Asexuality is relatively rare, so it's much more likely that she's just not into you. But anything is possible.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree with PBear. Sorry to say James, but she is likely just not that "into you."

Keep your eyes open. Be smart.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> Agree with PBear. Sorry to say James, but she is likely just not that "into you."
> 
> Keep your eyes open. Be smart.


In agreement here. Asexual is very rare. very very rare. 

Someone not being into you is not very rare. 

Play the odds. Remember, it is scary as heIl for her to admit to herself shes not into you. It is scary as hell for her to confront her own feelings, especially if in a committed relationship. 

It's also very difficult to accept someone not being into you. 

I don't think it's a silver bullet, but try improving yourself to the umph degree. Meaning if you're in good shape, get in better shape. If you've been a door mat to get her to like you, be a alpha male. Succeed at work. Hone in on improvement. Do everything in your power to be a better man, not just husband. See what you get from that and reevaluate. Also, listen closely to her words and behaviors.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Agree with PBear. Sorry to say James, but she is likely just not that "into you."
> 
> Keep your eyes open. Be smart.


I guess so. It's extremely annoying she doesn't admit the fact when I ask her, not sure how she expects things to change. Not a mind reader, if she's not into me I need to know why. We are financially well off, I'm in good physical shape and take care of myself, help out around the house and with the kids... we do lots of fun activities together, have time for date nights and trips just the two of us. If she's not "into me" then I resent her for being dishonest about it all this time and not giving me a chance to improve.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

BostonBruins32 said:


> In agreement here. Asexual is very rare. very very rare.
> 
> Someone not being into you is not very rare.
> 
> ...


That sounds like I am going above and beyond to have my spouse be attracted to me, while she continues to do nothing and not give a s**t about anything and still hold my attraction. It would probably be easier for me to just stop being attracted to her, than to go through all this effort while she doesn't seem to have a care in the world just suddenly "isn't into me". I don't see how that is fair.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Do you know of any possible trauma in her background? Child sex abuse, rape, an alcoholic parent, other forms of abuse?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

James2020 said:


> ...if she's not into me I need to know why. We are financially well off, I'm in good physical shape and take care of myself, help out around the house and with the kids... we do lots of fun activities together, have time for date nights and trips just the two of us. If she's not "into me" then I resent her for being dishonest about it all this time and not giving me a chance to improve.


James, I honestly believe it comes down WAY MORE to "chemistry" between people than the proverbial "checklist" of WHY she should be into you (good provider, helpful around the house, fun activities, trips, good dad, etc.) 

I started a thread awhile ago which you can read and see if you find any of it helpful:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/170618-how-important-chemistry-relationship.html


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

BostonBruins32 said:


> In agreement here. Asexual is very rare. very very rare.
> 
> Someone not being into you is not very rare.
> 
> ...


To go further on this point... it's pretty difficult to suddenly change like that. If I was never into being super atheltic and "ripped" then why suddenly does that have to become my thing, or I was never an alpha male because I usually don't respect alpha males and never thought that was my thing, now suddenly I have to go and pretend to be an alpha male? That approach doesn't make sense... we got married to each other because we liked certain things about one another. I still love my wife for everything that she is, and despite her putting on some weight and aging and everything I love her more than ever and am attracted to her more than ever. What right does she have to go back and suddenly decide she DID want to marry that alpha male dbag from high school that was putting everyone down (a marriage and two kids later). I have not changed, I aged and matured and whatever but I'm still the same, and for her to suddenly want someone else and then expect that I become someone else is unfair.

Am I really that far off?

All in all I don't actually know that THAT's what she wants, just more of a response to your suggestions. I don't think it's OK to just accept that your spouse suddenly wants someone different, and then jump through hoops to become someone else.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> James, I honestly believe it comes down WAY MORE to "chemistry" between people than the proverbial "checklist" of WHY she should be into you (good provider, helpful around the house, fun activities, trips, good dad, etc.)
> 
> I started a thread awhile ago which you can read and see if you find any of it helpful:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/170618-how-important-chemistry-relationship.html


That's definitely both interesting and depressing at the same time.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

James2020 said:


> That's definitely both interesting and depressing at the same time.


I totally agree. It's what ultimately ended my marriage...


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

James2020 said:


> That sounds like I am going above and beyond to have my spouse be attracted to me, while she continues to do nothing and not give a s**t about anything and still hold my attraction. It would probably be easier for me to just stop being attracted to her, than to go through all this effort while she doesn't seem to have a care in the world just suddenly "isn't into me". I don't see how that is fair.


It's super unfair. 

My wife is probably 15lbs heavier, lot worse shape, than when we were dating years ago. After she gave birth to our child, her body has struggled to regain form, very common, very OK. Giving birth takes a huge toll on woman's body. That said, she doesnt workout, doesnt watch what she eats, so she's not trying to do anything. I weighed about 9lbs more than I did 11 years ago, and lost about 8lbs over the past say 4 months. I'm dressing better etc.. I've also upped my alpha at home. Leading the house better etc. It has not helped much with getting her panties to drop (until this past month, god knows why, likely anomoly). 

It's not fair. She sits on the pine while I'm out training. Not fair. But it's also not fair to myself to let my body (brain, muscles, or whatever) go to sh*t. I feel 10fold better about myself, and actually give less of a sh*t what she thinks. This is liberating. And once liberated, you begin to stop caring about what's fair. begin to stop sulking (unattractive) about whats unfair.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

James2020 said:


> To go further on this point... it's pretty difficult to suddenly change like that. If I was never into being super atheltic and "ripped" then why suddenly does that have to become my thing, or I was never an alpha male because I usually don't respect alpha males and never thought that was my thing, now suddenly I have to go and pretend to be an alpha male? That approach doesn't make sense... we got married to each other because we liked certain things about one another. I still love my wife for everything that she is, and despite her putting on some weight and aging and everything I love her more than ever and am attracted to her more than ever. What right does she have to go back and suddenly decide she DID want to marry that alpha male dbag from high school that was putting everyone down (a marriage and two kids later). I have not changed, I aged and matured and whatever but I'm still the same, and for her to suddenly want someone else and then expect that I become someone else is unfair.
> 
> Am I really that far off?
> 
> All in all I don't actually know that THAT's what she wants, just more of a response to your suggestions. I don't think it's OK to just accept that your spouse suddenly wants someone different, and then jump through hoops to become someone else.


Dude I hear ya. Trust me I hear ya. 

I'm just saying, unless you are 100% your attraction level (physical, mental, all aspects of who you are) hasnt dipped, you should give self improvement a shot. 

I'm offering this advice under the assumption that we want YOU to feel better. You will feel hurt or frustrated that shes not "into you" right now, but you need to feel better. Cross your Ts and dot your Is. Control what you can control. If this improvement offers no solution, then you are free to peace out.

For the record. I'm with you. Why the heIl after x amount of years of marriage can a spouse just say "hey, actually i like dark hair, men over 6'6, and carpentry skills" Well ****, then why did you marry me. I can't be that. I totally hear you. I'm just offering you an out in terms of feeling better about who you are immediately. As for her, well you cant control her.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

James2020 said:


> I guess I'm more trying to figure out if that's what's really happening or not? This whole "asexual" thing is new to me... I don't know if I am looking at the facts wrong, or if this is really what I am dealing with and need to consider. Not even sure how I can be sure, or even how she could be sure for that matter.


Well, there is a checklist, of sorts. Just because you answer "yes" to all or most of them certainly doesn't mean you are one, but it can help.

Basically, as I understand it, an asexual does not, nor ever has felt sexual desire - at least in the way most others do.

That's important, the part about "not ever". Somebody who genuinely felt sexual attraction and/or the urge to be sexual but does not later on - they are not asexual as per the definition.

Asexuals do not turn it on or off.

Despite ones upbringing, for example, sexual people will always, and I mean always, have that urge at one point in their lives or other. It can be repressed, but that is a decision, conscious or otherwise. They also find people attractive, physically. Asexual people do not.

Some asexual people are capable, and even willing, to have sex, but it is not due to the natural urges you and I have. There is no such thing as being "horny". They can get into it once it's begun, but it's a purely physiological reaction. They do not derive the same emotional pleasures, for example, that most of us do. But physically it can be great.

I think the best layman's terms description of it would be that they don't get horny. It's deeper than that, obviously, but that's the simplest way to describe it.

Just as I, a heterosexual male, do not get turned on by men. I am not homophobic in the least, but I just don't have the desire to be physical with a man, nor do I find other men physically attractive (at least in that way).

However, asexuals can be hetero-, ****- or bi-sexual, or in some cases none of the above. This is one aspect that I can't quite understand, but there it is. Obviously if there is an attraction to a certain sex (or both sexes), there is SOMETHING that says "I don't like men/women" the same way. If it's not a sexual thing, then what is it?

James, the best and easiest way to delve a little deeper with your wife is to ask her point blank if she ever feels sexual, or even just sexy, period. If the answer is no, ask her if she ever HAS, including before you. If the answer is no (it could genuinely be because of body image, upbringing, repression, etc.) ask her if she's ever enjoyed sex, physically OR emotionally. You will have to dig into her past a little bit here, so as long as you two are comfortable with that...

If everything continues to point in that direction, then mention that you have heard of this relatively new thing called asexuality, and describe it to her, show her the AVEN website, etc. Then it's up to her to use this information to self-identify or not.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Could it be that a sexuality is a "spectrum" personality trait rather than a discrete on/off?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

PBear said:


> Asexuality is relatively rare, so it's much more likely that she's just not into you. But anything is possible.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right! It's less likely she's asexual.

There are women who believe they should have their pic of about 50,000 celebrities, business men and pro athelete's and anything below this level will not excite them. They won't have a drive for it.

There are many more woman than this group of men, perhaps 10 to 1 at that altitude, hell perhaps 100 to 1...

Some of them will take on a "contractor" or "temp worker" while they are between men, or as a permenant plan B.

There is nothing to be ashamed of, but just know your environment and know who you are dealing with!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

BostonBruins32 said:


> I'm offering this advice under the assumption that we want YOU to feel better. You will feel hurt or frustrated that shes not "into you" right now, but you need to feel better. Cross your Ts and dot your Is. Control what you can control. If this improvement offers no solution, then you are free to peace out.


:iagree:

Self improvement is done for yourself. You will feel better if you get some exercise, eat more healthfully, cut down the junk food and alcohol and caffeine, sleep adequately, improve your wardrobe a bit, be active in hobbies you enjoy, and perhaps learn some new behaviors or attitudes.

Your wife may or may not like it. You may or may not get better sex. Those are side effects, and not the main reason for improvement.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Thor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Self improvement is done for yourself. You will feel better if you get some exercise, eat more healthfully, cut down the junk food and alcohol and caffeine, sleep adequately, improve your wardrobe a bit, be active in hobbies you enjoy, and perhaps learn some new behaviors or attitudes.
> 
> Your wife may or may not like it. You may or may not get better sex. Those are side effects, and not the main reason for improvement.


He WILL get better sex, either with or without her. But he has to help himself out here, and he will.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

James2020 said:


> To go further on this point... it's pretty difficult to suddenly change like that. If I was never into being super atheltic and "ripped" then why suddenly does that have to become my thing, or I was never an alpha male because I usually don't respect alpha males and never thought that was my thing, now suddenly I have to go and pretend to be an alpha male? That approach doesn't make sense... we got married to each other because we liked certain things about one another. I still love my wife for everything that she is, and despite her putting on some weight and aging and everything I love her more than ever and am attracted to her more than ever. What right does she have to go back and suddenly decide she DID want to marry that alpha male dbag from high school that was putting everyone down (a marriage and two kids later). I have not changed, I aged and matured and whatever but I'm still the same, and for her to suddenly want someone else and then expect that I become someone else is unfair.
> 
> Am I really that far off?
> 
> All in all I don't actually know that THAT's what she wants, just more of a response to your suggestions. I don't think it's OK to just accept that your spouse suddenly wants someone different, and then jump through hoops to become someone else.


#1 Asexuality is pretty rare, so it's unlikely.

#2 What is far, far less rare is a woman who represses her sexuality because she's not attracted to her husband any more. See, with some women, it's easier just to turn away from sex completely than deal with that.

#3 Or has a hormonal imbalance resulting in a lower sex drive.

I'd start with #3 with a trip to the doctor to find out, while you also work on #2. Oh, and it doesn't matter if she's gained weight, etc. You can't control attraction. It's either there, or it's not.

As an example, my wife used to complain that her libido was way lower because she was aging, and wasn't the same after her pregnancies.

She went voluntarily to the doc to get it all checked out... all good there.

So I started working out, gained some muscle, dropped some fat, started dressing well and taking care of myself, and seducing my wife...

And lo and behold! Her libido is back better than ever!

Of course, according to her, it had nothing to do with any of that stuff I did. She would never be that shallow that muscles and less fat and dressing well would matter. I mean, she loved me for _me_, of course... not my biceps or abs.

It must be because of the new diet, or the kids are older, or Saturn being in the seventh house of Aquarius.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

So I definitely agree with a lot of this feedback -- I need to take charge and improve myself for my own benefit. Regardless of whether that means more sex or sexual attraction from my wife, improving myself will improve my life even if I am happy with how (other) things are right now. So yes, those will be my new goals.

Having said that, the only part that sucks about it is I guess I have no other action items in terms of specifically improving things with her. I mean I want her to desire me, I want us to be together... I suppose marriage counseling is an option, it's getting more and more to that point. We have this duty sex right now 3x a week. It feels better than no sex, but it's far from fulfilling as I feel kind of empty and guilty and just wish she would be happy about it at least ONCE.. but literally she is never looking forward or into it. So I guess while I continue to improve myself, I can either ditch the duty sex to make a statement or keep taking it and at least get the limited benefit. It's hard to ditch it, but often I do feel that by accepting it I am just agreeing to this unspoken agreement that this is good enough.

QUESTION: on the note of asexuality, I mean I think she is NOT asexual but let me examine a few other "clues" as of recent. So first of all, I am assuming that if someone is asexual they would NOT initiate sex while drunk? It's like, if you are straight you will not initiate gay sex when you are drunk (unless you are actually gay or bi). Is that assumption correct? I suppose it's possible a drunk asexual person would initiate sex out of guilt or just wanting to physically get off or something but that just seems like a stretch at that point?

Second thing is, I kind of hinted at the issue to her. Like we were talking about how she's losing weight, and she said she will feel so good when she loses 20lbs or something and then I poked at "oh nice so I bet you will start to enjoy sex again and be into it" to which she said "no i'm not sure that will really help, maybe but i wouldn't count on it" at which point I said "sometimes i wonder if you EVER like sex.... or ever did? Maybe you are one of those people tha just never is into sex, i forget what it's called..." and I kind of trailed off, she responded "Oh you mean like an asexual, hah, no I still have sexual desire it just isn't very strong".

So the above would again confirm it's not an asexuality thing, but instead either a problem with me or some other factor that I can't seem to discover through our countless conversations... but I will keep trying. Anyhow just kind of an update and inquiry at the same time


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

James2020 said:


> So I definitely agree with a lot of this feedback -- I need to take charge and improve myself for my own benefit. Regardless of whether that means more sex or sexual attraction from my wife, improving myself will improve my life even if I am happy with how (other) things are right now. So yes, those will be my new goals.
> 
> Having said that, the only part that sucks about it is I guess I have no other action items in terms of specifically improving things with her. I mean I want her to desire me, I want us to be together... I suppose marriage counseling is an option, it's getting more and more to that point. We have this duty sex right now 3x a week. It feels better than no sex, but it's far from fulfilling as I feel kind of empty and guilty and just wish she would be happy about it at least ONCE.. but literally she is never looking forward or into it. So I guess while I continue to improve myself, I can either ditch the duty sex to make a statement or keep taking it and at least get the limited benefit. It's hard to ditch it, but often I do feel that by accepting it I am just agreeing to this unspoken agreement that this is good enough.
> 
> ...


A player might say your off your game and give you a couple of manipulations to perform. I mean if you could flip and toggle some switches in her ear and her eyes and all of a sudden her sex is kicked up 4x, would that really be a bad thing?

I think players hold the clue here, as reverse engineering it might not be better than observing and putting into practice what works in real life.

She might find she has a sex drive for you if she can become jealous behind another female.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

treyvion said:


> A player might say your off your game and give you a couple of manipulations to perform. I mean if you could flip and toggle some switches in her ear and her eyes and all of a sudden her sex is kicked up 4x, would that really be a bad thing?
> 
> I think players hold the clue here, as reverse engineering it might not be better than observing and putting into practice what works in real life.
> 
> She might find she has a sex drive for you if she can become jealous behind another female.


Yea, that's probably true too. I have no doubt, that if it has to do with her attraction towards me then I obviously am just missing that spark that I used to have or that she looks for now but didn't back then, who knows. I keep trying to spot what it could be, and I can also understand from her perspective she doesn't want to be sitting there telling me what I need to do or whatever to become attractive, because that in itself isn't attractive. So for sure, I am not counting myself out here as being the big factor for all of this and makes sense to keep working on it.

As far as the jealousy factor, well yes I can see that working but might end up causing more friction hah... and I feel rather malicious trying to get that going as well. Who knows, might end up having to go that route!


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

James2020 said:


> Yea, that's probably true too. I have no doubt, that if it has to do with her attraction towards me then I obviously am just missing that spark that I used to have or that she looks for now but didn't back then, who knows. I keep trying to spot what it could be, and I can also understand from her perspective she doesn't want to be sitting there telling me what I need to do or whatever to become attractive, because that in itself isn't attractive. So for sure, I am not counting myself out here as being the big factor for all of this and makes sense to keep working on it.
> 
> As far as the jealousy factor, well yes I can see that working but might end up causing more friction hah... and I feel rather malicious trying to get that going as well. Who knows, might end up having to go that route!


Friction produces heat.

Cracking a flint against a rock will produce spark.

This is why sometimes we MUST do the exact opposite of what they think we should do at times.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

James2020 said:


> QUESTION: on the note of asexuality, I mean I think she is NOT asexual but let me examine a few other "clues" as of recent. So first of all, I am assuming that if someone is asexual they would NOT initiate sex while drunk?
> .
> .
> .
> So the above would again confirm it's not an asexuality thing, but instead either a problem with me or some other factor that I can't seem to discover through our countless conversations...


It sure has the characteristics of a childhood trauma such as sex abuse. Or, severely repressed (religious) parents who filled her with toxic shame over sex.

No, it isn't you!!!! Stop trying to fix yourself on this one. If you are within norms for health, appearance, grooming, and personality then a typical woman has no reason to not want sex with you unless she has been drinking.

The drinking is a big red flag to me.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

When I say to stop trying to fix yourself, I mean stop blaming yourself. You can and should be on a lifetime self-improvement plan. As you learn to be a better husband or lover, certainly do implement changes. But you do it for yourself. Be authentic to yourself, or as Shakespeare says "First to thine own self be true".


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

Thor said:


> It sure has the characteristics of a childhood trauma such as sex abuse. Or, severely repressed (religious) parents who filled her with toxic shame over sex.
> 
> No, it isn't you!!!! Stop trying to fix yourself on this one. If you are within norms for health, appearance, grooming, and personality then a typical woman has no reason to not want sex with you unless she has been drinking.
> 
> The drinking is a big red flag to me.


Well her parents were definitely not super crazy strict religious I think her upbringing was fairly typical. As for the abuse, the only thing is that she says it was suspected when she was just a small kid that some older boy may have done something but she has no memory of it (was too young) and her parents were never sure (but never left her alone around him again). It doesn't seem major enough to cause a lifetime of sexual repression?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

And also I'm conflicted about the duty sex too. On the one hand it's better than no sex and I do get some enjoyment from it of course, on the other hand I feel like I am making it OK for her not to be into it and just "put out" 3x a week for my sake... 

It feels like if I were to turn down the duty sex I would be making a stronger "point" but then I could be sexless for a long time as well lol... Kind of stupid I know. The other side of me too feels like maybe this forced scheduled sex would in some way make her more comfortable with it over time and she could maybe open up a little to enjoy it. It was her idea to begin with, and that's how she justified it.

Thoughts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

If she admits to having SOME sexual desire, then she's not a straight "A" asexual. She could be what's called gray asexual, in that there is desire, however small, for the person with whom they have a connection with (ie. you).

However, if she knows what the term means, and she does not identify as that, it's probably unlikely. As I understand it, asexuals 'know' there is something not right from a relatively young age. When all their friends are talking about how hot so-and-so is, they don't get it. When their friends discover masturbation and sex, they have no interest at all. That sort of thing. There may be some experimentation at that age just to see what the big deal is, but it's usually just that - experimentation. And unfortunately, first time sex is rarely any good, so they're left thinking it ISN'T a big deal at all.

I would also think the issue of prior abuse and resultant repression is unlikely, too, but you never know. You can't tell from observing, you can only find out by asking, and you might not get an honest answer, so I'd probably leave it at that.

I'd go the hormone route first and foremost. I am still working on having my wife see our Dr., but I'm not expecting much from that, anyway. Her signs are all pointing at the "A" word, but it's best to rule out the lowest common denominators first.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Her reported possible abuse does not to me sound like a probable cause. As alexm said, she may not be giving you a straight answer. My wife denied an abuse history numerous times when I asked her directly. But anyhow you can only go on what you know, which at this time is that there doesn't seem to be an abuse history or a crazy family which affected her sexuality.

Keep in mind that the cause is irrelevant. She has to want to find a resolution, and she is the one who has to do the work. Whether it be abuse, hormones, or whatever else, the only relevant fact for you is whether she meets your needs or not.

You cannot be her shrink nor her doc. Even if you were to identify a most likely "diagnosis", you are not qualified to provide the professional guidance or services she would need.

In many ways, looking for a root cause is a big diversion and waste of time for you.

As far as the duty sex, I would definitely cut it out. She apparently hasn't learned to enjoy sex with you, so I would guess she never will under the current status quo. And it may be counterproductive, where she is learning to simply put up with you several times per week.

I would suggest you try a sex moratorium. For a specified time period you have zero sexual contact with her. Let her know up front what is going on. You can kiss and hug, but nothing more. Masturbation is ok but try to keep it to a minimum. The idea is to get a clear picture of what your relationship is like without the sex aspect. By having a moratorium it removes your behaviors which you might not be aware of where you are priming her or testing the waters to see if you can get some tonight. She may be noticing, and her interest may fade as a result. The moratorium can be very helpful. 60 days is a good time period to try.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Thor said:


> Her reported possible abuse does not to me sound like a probable cause. As alexm said, she may not be giving you a straight answer. My wife denied an abuse history numerous times when I asked her directly. But anyhow you can only go on what you know, which at this time is that there doesn't seem to be an abuse history or a crazy family which affected her sexuality.
> 
> Keep in mind that the cause is irrelevant. She has to want to find a resolution, and she is the one who has to do the work. Whether it be abuse, hormones, or whatever else, the only relevant fact for you is whether she meets your needs or not.
> 
> ...


A lack of sex and intimacy will diminish even a very good relationship.

I think during this moratorium, I wouldn't kiss hug or anything. Don't puppy dog up to her, don't put her on a pedestal and chase some of your own goals and dreams.

Do some things for yourself.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

James2020 said:


> Now I can't even figure out, if this is really a thing... and if my wife really might be asexual and either doesn't realize it, or does but either way just does what she needs to do to fulfill her commitment to me etc.


Well, let's look at your post from there.



James2020 said:


> -- we have sex 3 times a week because it's scheduled (never spontaneous), if we can skip a day she's very happy about that
> 
> -- she doesn't really even enjoy sex or allow me to give her an O by any means, but she doesn't seem to care about it, she just has sex because i want it
> 
> -- she does spend time on her own about once or twice a month watching some porn and masturbating (apparently that's still common for asexuals), it's not a huge thing she only takes 10 min or so each time always when i am away and when kids are away or sleeping


It does not appear to me that she is asexual. She appears to enjoy sex and apparently seeks masturbation on her own. She does not seem to enjoy sex with you. You don't seem to fully grasp how very strange your situation is. To have a partner who does not enjoy sex with you but is willing to have duty sex three times a week is almost super-human.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

alexm said:


> If she admits to having SOME sexual desire, then she's not a straight "A" asexual. She could be what's called gray asexual


Gray asexual is in the same class as jackalope. It's purely imaginary. It's just another means of rationalization on your part.



> I'd go the hormone route first and foremost. I am still working on having my wife see our Dr., but I'm not expecting much from that, anyway. Her signs are all pointing at the "A" word, but it's best to rule out the lowest common denominators first.


Your wife, Alex, does not seem to have anything in common with James' wife.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

scientia said:


> Well, let's look at your post from there.
> 
> 
> It does not appear to me that she is asexual. She appears to enjoy sex and apparently seeks masturbation on her own. She does not seem to enjoy sex with you. You don't seem to fully grasp how very strange your situation is. To have a partner who does not enjoy sex with you but is willing to have duty sex three times a week is almost super-human.


Although I agree she's probably not asexual, your reasoning here is incorrect. Asexuals enjoy masturbation and porn, but just in a different way.

I very much grasp how weird my situation is, do you have any suggestions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

treyvion said:


> A lack of sex and intimacy will diminish even a very good relationship.
> 
> I think during this moratorium, I wouldn't kiss hug or anything. Don't puppy dog up to her, don't put her on a pedestal and chase some of your own goals and dreams.
> 
> Do some things for yourself.


This is difficult for me, how can I just shut her out for two months I will feel very strange it's just not like me. And as for my goals and dreams, I've been working on that my whole life.. Sex or no sex it doesn't really change the things I want for me and my kids. The biggest thing is getting that connection back with my wife, definitely 60 days of nothing would be very difficult for me and likely not difficult for her. What happens at the end of the 60 days where we just realize the obvious -- she doesn't care for sex or intimacy and I do? Then I have to decide if I want to stay or leave? It's a pretty bad place to be in for sure, I don't want to have to choose between those options I likely won't be selfish anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

James2020 said:


> Although I agree she's probably not asexual, your reasoning here is incorrect. Asexuals enjoy masturbation and porn, but just in a different way.


Where did you get this idea from? Exactly how would someone non-sexual enjoy masturbation and porn in "a different way"? There are all sorts of fetishes that relate to being aroused by something other than another, living, breathing, adult human. However, watching porn, fantasizing, or reading erotic literature to get aroused is not much of a fetish; that's pretty typical.



> I very much grasp how weird my situation is, do you have any suggestions?


I suppose I could suggest some things but you have to start at the bottom, the very bottom. It could awhile for anything to improve and during that time you would probably have to stop accepting duty sex from your wife.

If you are willing to do that then you need some information from her. Ask her what sex in your marriage means to her and what she thinks it means to you. Then ask her to describe what she thinks about and how she feels when she masturbates. Then you find out if anything she fantasizes about relates to you. 

Again, there are all different types of people. I've heard of men who lost desire for their wives because of stretch marks, women who lost desire because of baldness, etc. Not everything can be fixed. If your wife fantasizes about a man who is 6'5" tall with rippling muscles and shoulder length blond hair, there probably isn't much you can do. But, it takes information to see what is possible.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

James2020 said:


> This is difficult for me, how can I just shut her out for two months I will feel very strange it's just not like me.


You are getting a lot of bad advice in this thread. You would most likely avoid sex because if your current sexual practices are part of the problem then that would have to stop while it is being fixed. It's like trying to keep a bathroom or kitchen functional while it is being renovated; it's hard to do.

However, you don't stop affection unless it is also part of the problem. And I don't know if it is part of the problem because I don't have enough information. How people are jumping in with advice without this information is beyond my comprehension. Some of this might be coming from 12 step programs but most of these are useless.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

scientia said:


> Where did you get this idea from? Exactly how would someone non-sexual enjoy masturbation and porn in "a different way"? There are all sorts of fetishes that relate to being aroused by something other than another, living, breathing, adult human. However, watching porn, fantasizing, or reading erotic literature to get aroused is not much of a fetish; that's pretty typical.
> 
> 
> I suppose I could suggest some things but you have to start at the bottom, the very bottom. It could awhile for anything to improve and during that time you would probably have to stop accepting duty sex from your wife.
> ...


Thanks for your reply.

The information about the porn/masturbation I got here: Relationship FAQ | The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org

Although I don't know all of the answers above, I will work on getting that... but in terms of what she thinks about when she watches porn/masturbates, she said it's just something she finds interesting and it arouses her but she just likes watching "beautiful people" having sex, in a kind of voyeur way. She said she never pictures herself as being a part of it, but instead just likes to watch other good looking people do it. The type of stuff she watches is pretty standard.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

Here is a direct quote from that asexuality website, which just really struck me as describing exactly what my wife said to me when I was asking her about porn etc.:

My partner masturbates and/or watches pornography, but doesn't want to have sex with me. How is this possible?

Some asexuals (though not all) have sex drives, but see them as a private thing that should be taken care of alone, like going to the bathroom. Some of these asexuals find it helpful to use pornography to speed the process along. While not sexually attracted to the people in their erotic materials, asexuals with sex drives can sometimes pick up a general feeling of sexuality from such materials. Some asexuals even have sexual fantasies, although they do not wish to carry out these fantasies with real people in real life. However, it is also possible that your partner is sexual, but wants to avoid having sex with you for some other reason. The best way to know is to talk to them openly.


To me, it's a difficult thing. I read through those FAQs and they really describe my wife to me in a lot of ways. I find it possible that she just doesn't even realize it... it's definitely something that hasn't really been openly discussed all that much.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

James2020 said:


> Relationship FAQ | The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org


Yes, it includes some misinformation.

*Can asexuals have successful romantic relationships with each other?*

_Yes! There are many asexual couples on AVEN, including one married couple, and other asexual couples exist who met in different ways. The hard part is to find a compatible asexual person, but as asexual visibility increases and asexuality becomes accepted, this is expected to get easier._

*My partner masturbates and/or watches pornography, but doesn't want to have sex with me. How is this possible?*

_Some asexuals (though not all) have sex drives, but see them as a private thing that should be taken care of alone, like going to the bathroom. Some of these asexuals find it helpful to use pornography to speed the process along. While not sexually attracted to the people in their erotic materials, asexuals with sex drives can sometimes pick up a general feeling of sexuality from such materials. Some asexuals even have sexual fantasies, although they do not wish to carry out these fantasies with real people in real life. However, it is also possible that your partner is sexual, but wants to avoid having sex with you for some other reason. The best way to know is to talk to them openly._


These are two very different things. One is a friendship relationship with no sexual expression due to a lack of sexual desire. The other is a friendship relationship with no sexual expression due to claimed privacy issues. This is rather like claiming that you are on a diet because you only eat chocolate cupcakes in private. Privacy doesn't change what you are actually doing. Masturbation in private still requires sexual desire.

Genuine asexuality is a very broad area which can include spinal injury, genital injury, brain damage, hormonal changes, autism, or simply being born without sexual response. There is no reason to include fake categories.



> Although I don't know all of the answers above, I will work on getting that... but in terms of what she thinks about when she watches porn/masturbates, she said it's just something she finds interesting and it arouses her but she just likes watching "beautiful people" having sex, in a kind of voyeur way. She said she never pictures herself as being a part of it, but instead just likes to watch other good looking people do it. The type of stuff she watches is pretty standard.


But she is part of it because she masturbates. Are you saying that most of the time when she watches porn, she does not masturbate?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

James2020 said:


> This is difficult for me, how can I just shut her out for two months I will feel very strange it's just not like me.
> 
> The biggest thing is getting that connection back with my wife, definitely 60 days of nothing would be very difficult for me and likely not difficult for her. What happens at the end of the 60 days where we just realize the obvious -- she doesn't care for sex or intimacy and I do? Then I have to decide if I want to stay or leave? It's a pretty bad place to be in for sure, I don't want to have to choose between those options I likely won't be selfish anyway.


First, you won't be shutting her out. You just won't be having sex with her. If she really doesn't care about sex, it will be a non-event to her if you don't have sex. Her life will be fine, and she'll have some extra time those 3 nights per week she isn't giving you duty sex.

Aside from sex, you maintain a completely normal relationship. You can hug and kiss if you feel like it. For example if you normally hug and kiss when one of you comes in from work, you can still do that. Physical affection is fine, as long as it isn't sexual affection.

And then at 60 days you have a clear answer. Perhaps you find out you have been putting WAAAY too much emphasis on sex. Really, if you're getting it 3 times per week what is the problem other than she doesn't seem to be into it? Are you otherwise feeling she loves you and respects you and values her marriage to you? Or is your dissatisfaction with the duty sex an indicator of deeper problems and issues?

You may learn that you are doing all kinds of things to warm her up or indicate to her you want sex. All those manipulations probably annoy her even if you don't today recognize you are doing them. The 60 days will allow both of you to reset your behaviors and interactions to be genuine without there being any overtones or pressures for sex. You may learn to give different and more meaningful messages of affection to her, and she may learn to receive those messages because she doesn't detect any hidden motive that you're trying to get sex.

She may learn that she actually does like sex and desires sex. Maybe 3 times per week is just too much for her, and if you pulled back to once or twice per week she would be a lot more enthused.

Or, you both might learn that your marriage is really great except that she prefers no sex at all. This would be rare, a woman who feels really good about the relationship yet has no desire for sex.

The moratorium isolates what seems to be for you the big problem in the marriage, which is duty sex. So stop having duty sex! Determine if she really doesn't want sex with you or if there is something else which is turning her off to sex with you.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Asperger's can manifest with an asexual or non-sexual attitude.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I dunno. It seems to me you're looking for an "excuse" in asexuality for why your wife isn't enthusiastic about sex with you.

I'm having a hard time seeing an asexual person having sex 3 times a week, and masturbating on top of that. It could be that she can't orgasm with you, so sex has become a chore. She has duty sex because she loves you, but masturbates to porn in order to have an orgasm.


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

norajane said:


> I dunno. It seems to me you're looking for an "excuse" in asexuality for why your wife isn't enthusiastic about sex with you.


I agree, I have gotten over the idea that that's the case. The more I think about it the less it makes sense, even though she does fit some of those descriptions it just doesn't make sense to me. Though I am not really looking for an excuse, I'm looking for a reason. I have asked about it, and the only response I get is that she's just not into sex and doesn't really enjoy it.



norajane said:


> I'm having a hard time seeing an asexual person having sex 3 times a week, and masturbating on top of that. It could be that she can't orgasm with you, so sex has become a chore. She has duty sex because she loves you, but masturbates to porn in order to have an orgasm.


This is also true. The problem for me, is that she will not let me get her an orgasm. She refuses for me to give oral, use any additional stimulation or toys, and she will not use her hand either. So if I cannot make it happen through PIV, then she will not O and that's that. Kind of puts me in a difficult position.

Again, this is all difficult because it's increasingly more difficult to discuss the issue with her. She gets more defensive, and discussions quickly turn into fights and I just don't want to keep creating all these negative feelings around it all. It's one of the reasons I have settled on the duty sex for now... I thought if I go along with this for a little bit, she will feel a bit more comfortable.

*As for Thor, and your 60 suggestion* -- yes, what you say makes sense. Definitely I do feel that she loves and cares for me and the family, and she's very committed. She respects me and always thinks about me and cares for me, I can feel it. I've mentioned before, I really think our marriage is absolutely amazing and great it's just this stupid sex thing that is messing with me. The reason it bugs me, is that I used to think she just flat out was not into it. But then a few months ago we both revealed we liked watching porn sometimes etc. At first I was excited about it all, I thought hey awesome she IS into sex just have to spice things up a bit. Then when she refused to allow me to make any kind of improvements to it, it made me feel like she's just settled for ****ty sex with me and leaves the getting off to her porn watching once a month because it's easier. I have no problem with the porn or the masturbation, but I do feel like I am being shut out when she doesn't give me the opportunity to try and make sex enjoyable for her.

Sure, I could be happy with just this duty sex and count my lucky stars that she's willing to do it so often despite her not enjoying it. But as time goes by, I feel it's becoming more difficult to be OK with it. I want it to be a mutually enjoyable and experience, I want to be wanted and I don't want it to be forced or scheduled. When I explained that to her, she did not understand why just getting sex wasn't good enough why I needed all this extra stuff, it's like she just doesn't understand because she doesn't seem to care for it. Even hugs and kisses she doesn't ever really care for, never did. 

So that's the constant cycle we are in. Sometimes I am OK with it and then I get these waves of frustration and resentment towards her with how I am being treated and how me wanting desire is being dismissed as something that I shouldn't care for so much. She was saying that me wanting her approval just makes me look pitiful and insecure and that I shouldn't be wanting that...

So anyway just yea... more thoughts on it all. I agree though, I do not think she is asexual just reading all the descriptions of it I mean it described her accurately, but it still doesn't make sense to me.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

James2020 said:


> What stood out the MOST for me was how masturbation and pornography are described, this is EXACTLY how she explained her porn watching to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would think someone who is asexual wouldn't watch porn.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

James2020 said:


> I agree, I have gotten over the idea that that's the case. The more I think about it the less it makes sense, even though she does fit some of those descriptions it just doesn't make sense to me. Though I am not really looking for an excuse, I'm looking for a reason. I have asked about it, and the only response I get is that she's just not into sex and doesn't really enjoy it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I experienced the same thing with my ex - he preferred masturbating to porn to having sex with me. This is not okay in a monogamous relationship. She is not asexual if she's masturbating to porn. You have a right to be angry and frustrated. I think you have to tell her bluntly that this isn't working for you and it's a big deal for you whether she accepts that or not. 

Same advice I would have for anyone who isn't getting enough sex and has an unresponsive partner - you go to counselling and if counselling doesn't work you have to choose whether you are going to A) get your needs met elsewhere or B) Divorce. But sex is a basic need that needs to get met in a monogamous relationship. You shouldn't feel bad about needing it or asking for it and you shouldn't let your partner's defensiveness or diversions make you back down.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

James2020 said:


> I want it to be a mutually enjoyable and experience, I want to be wanted and I don't want it to be forced or scheduled. When I explained that to her, she did not understand why just getting sex wasn't good enough why I needed all this extra stuff, it's like she just doesn't understand because she doesn't seem to care for it. Even hugs and kisses she doesn't ever really care for, never did.
> 
> She was saying that me wanting her approval just makes me look pitiful and insecure and that I shouldn't be wanting that...


I appreciate Thor's enthusiasm, but I'm not seeing anything here that skipping sex for two months would solve. You seem to be describing a fundamental difference in perception. If that is the case then it will always exist. This would be a very different solution from one where couples are having difficulties with sexual interaction (what Thor is talking about).

How is your wife on an emotional level? Does she seem to understand your emotions? Is her emotional response what you would expect?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thor said:


> First, you won't be shutting her out. You just won't be having sex with her. If she really doesn't care about sex, it will be a non-event to her if you don't have sex. Her life will be fine, and she'll have some extra time those 3 nights per week she isn't giving you duty sex.
> 
> Aside from sex, you maintain a completely normal relationship. You can hug and kiss if you feel like it. For example if you normally hug and kiss when one of you comes in from work, you can still do that. Physical affection is fine, as long as it isn't sexual affection.
> 
> ...


I like this a lot. Though the end result may not be what he is looking for. If she doesn't bat an eye, and nothing changes after the 60 days, then what does he do? I'd be scared to try this, even though it does remove the duty sex equation.

My wife and I are about once a week on average. Although she doesn't come to me for it, she is enthusiastic when we do do it. And that's a major difference between OP's situation and my own.

For me, it's a weird combination of 50% duty sex and 50% not. I know that when I initiate, there are things she'd rather be doing - until we're doing it. Then she's 100% there. She'll tell me to hang on a second while she finishes the page in her book, or has to feed the cats, or "I was just about to do this, wait til I'm done" or something. There's almost always a bit of a delay there before we get going. Sometimes not. It certainly isn't on the priority list, anyway, it can always wait 5 minutes or 20 minutes, or whatever. But when in the moment, she's there completely, there's no doubt about that.

TBH, I like the fact that it's not scheduled, though. Although it's not always spontaneous, and it's clearly not a priority, until we're in the moment, it's also not at the point that it's "9pm, Tuesday night, 10pm Saturday night", etc. I don't think I could get myself psyched up enough for that. And again, the fact that she's into it and enjoying it and clearly enjoying ME, makes it cross that fine line, imo.

My ex wife was like my current wife - a lot of rejection, and once or twice a week would be okay with it. But she didn't participate, really, wasn't into foreplay, usually just wanted it over with. Even on the occasional time she would come to me, our sex was like that. And that's pretty much what's keeping me going in this marriage - my wife and I enjoy good sex together, but under the same parameters as with my ex wife.

I'm definitely thinking that I am making the same mistakes with both women. Clearly outside of the bedroom I am not turning them on and allowing either to desire me. In the bedroom, there is obviously a physical compatibility with my wife and I, which wasn't there with my ex.

But what I like about this 60 days, no sex plan, is that it would give my wife the chance to see me in a different way, as in not having to worry about me trying to initiate sex. It is clear that she enjoys sex, but perhaps once a month (or every two months, god forbid) she'll actually desire it. I don't know, because I've never really given her that long.

So whether she regards herself as asexual or not is a moot point in terms of trying to solve this. Although she says she has never thought about sex, it may perhaps be that she's never gone THAT long without it (or gone that long with somebody she enjoys sex with). At best, she's extremely LD. At worst, she IS asexual. Guess I'll find out which one at some point.

I can tell you that in her last LTR, they went almost a full calendar year without sex - but she was no longer attracted to him in any way, really. If sex is not on her general radar to begin with, and she's with somebody she doesn't enjoy sex with AND isn't attracted to outside of the bedroom, then it wouldn't be that difficult to go without. But with me, I know she's attracted to me in other ways, and also enjoys good sex with me. Two things she didn't have with her ex. With him, there was NO desire to have sex. No reason she could justify to have sex with him. He didn't do much for her outside of the bedroom OR in. He felt that his working 8 hours a day and contributing to the bills was enough. She also worked 8 hours a day, but dealt with the kids, made dinner, did laundry, etc etc etc. And when she was done with all the household stuff, she just wanted to go to bed. He wanted "alone time", even though she basically just worked 16 hours straight and he put in 8 hours and sat on the couch the rest of the time. She and I are not like that. If anything, I do more household/child related things than she does, but that's because of my schedule. And also because I'm not lazy.

Other than that, as far as I know, she's never really gone more than a couple of months (if that) without sex in her life. And she has told me that she has never had as good sex as she has with me, physically, anyway. And that wasn't from me asking (because really, like she'd tell me she's had better if I asked!). It was completely unsolicited.

So if her threshold can be a year or longer when there are no other alternatives, that's one thing. But if OUR sex is good, perhaps she wouldn't be able to hold out as long before her desire (if it exists) kicks in.

I think this is the route I'm going to go, but without discussing it with her first. As she is already basically on this 60-day plan (lol!), then she doesn't have to participate. I will, starting today, remove all prospects of sex from my radar, but will otherwise treat her the same as I always have. I won't initiate sex, talk about sex (that's a big thing), etc. and we'll see if removing that cloud over her/our heads makes any difference. Maybe the lack of pressure will make a change.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

norajane said:


> I dunno. It seems to me you're looking for an "excuse" in asexuality for why your wife isn't enthusiastic about sex with you.
> 
> I'm having a hard time seeing an asexual person having sex 3 times a week, and masturbating on top of that. It could be that she can't orgasm with you, so sex has become a chore. She has duty sex because she loves you, but masturbates to porn in order to have an orgasm.


:iagree:

nothing in this thread tells me its asexual. Everything in this thread sounds like she's not sexual towards YOU. 

This does not mean you are the issue. There could be 5,000 reasons why she's not attracted to you like that. 

duty sex 3 times per week is insane. 

again, focus on improving yourself. Assuming you've tried to talk to her, you could consider a combination of improvement and taking sex off the table. This meaning as you improve yourself(and or become busy with hobbies activities etc), reach out for sex with her a little less and less. While not intentional, you may be coming across as needy or seeking her affirmation. While its very not fair, sometimes our partners seem some form of distance, friction, or discomfort to feel more engaged in a sexual relationship. It's very messed up, but it happens. The end game should be self improvement. The benefit is a better like for you with your wife or a different partner someday.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

norajane said:


> I'm having a hard time seeing an asexual person having sex 3 times a week, and masturbating on top of that. It could be that she can't orgasm with you, so sex has become a chore. She has duty sex because she loves you, but masturbates to porn in order to have an orgasm.


I just want to point out that asexual people certainly can and do masturbate, including to porn. It's generally not the same way you or I would do it, it's just a thing to them. Masturbation is not the same thing to all people.

For example, it is entirely possible that somebody (asexual or not) has a hard time being physical with another person. It's an aversion of sorts. Maybe they can bring themselves to actually DO it, for the sake of their partner, but they derive no pleasure from it. It can also not make a lick of difference who their partner is, or what they look like. They just can't be turned on by physical contact with another person.

Solo, it's a different thing. They are comfortable and relaxed by themselves, to the degree that they can have physical pleasure.

Put it this way: there are many many people out there who can only be turned on by one thing, and under normal circumstances - nothing. S&M, furries, amputees, amazon women, midgets, and all other kinds of normal and not-so-normal things. Is there something wrong with them? Probably (especially the weirder or sicker you get). But is it possible? Absolutely.

Maybe his wife ONLY gets turned on sexually while by herself. Perhaps it has absolutely nothing to do with HIM, it's just the way she's built. But it could just as easily be her not being attracted to him in the ways that count.

Quick example from my own experience: my wife never masturbated before me. She brought home some toys from a toy party she went to a couple of years ago, mainly to experiment with me. Over a period of less than half a year, I noticed that she was using her toy without me (which I was fine with, relieved, actually). I wasn't snooping, it was just apparent. Sometimes it would be in the shower, sometimes in the drawer, sometimes when I went to get it for our use, it was in a different drawer, or whatever. It was obvious she was using it without me. After a few months, it started collecting dust. Hadn't moved in a while. So I asked her about it. She said she used it on her own for a while, but then slowly lost interest. It was something new and she enjoyed the physical pleasure it gave her, but also said that she never planned on using it, looked forward to using it, etc. She didn't get urges, she said. It was more or less a case of opening the drawer, seeing it, and saying "what the hell". I asked her what she thought about while using it, and she said (and I believe her) "nothing, just what I always think of". No fantasizing, not thinking about other men or even me. It was a physical thing only, and not one she planned to do before she actually did it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

alexm said:


> I think this is the route I'm going to go, but without discussing it with her first. As she is already basically on this 60-day plan (lol!), then she doesn't have to participate. I will, starting today, remove all prospects of sex from my radar, but will otherwise treat her the same as I always have. I won't initiate sex, talk about sex (that's a big thing), etc. and we'll see if removing that cloud over her/our heads makes any difference. Maybe the lack of pressure will make a change.


A moratorium should be mutually agreed upon.

I love experiments, but would limit yours to something like 10 days. She will certainly notice the change in you, and she'll wonder wtf is going on. So I would do a small scale experiment. If you normally make a suggestive comment most days, try cutting those out. Or, if you normally would try to initiate sex 3 times per week, try going 7 days without initiating (but do everything else the same).

This kind of experiment can reveal where her true comfort zone may be. Perhaps baudy jokes make her uneasy. Or perhaps she is just LD and will be more present in sex if you cut back a bit on your attempts at initiating.

But a long term moratorium really needs to be mutually agreed upon. She needs to be in on what is going on and what the reasons are. It can be a great learning experience for both of you if done right.

FWIW, I had decided my wife was asexual or VLD. Which didn't make sense in context with her previous relationships and the early part of our relationship. It turns out it was her child sex abuse at play when we got engaged. Anyhow, if you are thinking she is asexual or VLD, look at the really big picture of her relationship history to see if it is consistent with that. If she showed a normal sexuality in the past, she is not asexual or VLD.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thor said:


> A moratorium should be mutually agreed upon.
> 
> *I think I'm already in one, I just haven't noticed yet!
> 
> ...


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

A few comments. 

Many wives are LD. I think the average man is about an 8-9 while the average single woman about 5-6. With children, hormonal and body changes, working harder, putting children ahead of appearance, it drops to about a 3. 

Nonetheless, most women eager to have a good marriage and realizing the importance of relations to a man do it, and around twice a week is the average in a good marriage. To get in the mood, women then talk about a little wine, good restaurant, some compliments, relaxing, romance, etc. In any case, in a good marriage, you're happy because your spouse is happy; if she likes museums, you like them, you do things as a couple and some things you like more others her. And if you have children, she cheers at a basketball game or you at girl's soccer because you are a team. 

A few women will experience some discomfort or have a pronounced lack of desire, both medical issues. Other times there will be problems or dissatisfaction in the marriage and the sex is the first thing to go, somewhat foolish for a wife since it starts or continues a pattern of mutual self-centeredness which frequently guarantees mutual dissatisfaction and facilitates unfaithfulness. A disappointed husband wrote, 

"That sounds like I am going above and beyond to have my spouse be attracted to me, while she continues to do nothing and not give a s**t about anything and still hold my attraction. It would probably be easier for me to just stop being attracted to her, than to go through all this effort while she doesn't seem to have a care in the world just suddenly "isn't into me". I don't see how that is fair. "

The solution is not to keep asking her or to forget about it. He needs to precipitate an argument and raise sex in the context of that. Raising sex along inevitably leads to dissatisfaction. "Honey I am sorry, I am not in the mood. It's me not you and it would make no sense to pretend. Now that we have gotten that out of the way, please make arrangements to clean the garage and you need to make more money so we can redo the kitchen. I have a great deal at only $40,000." 

Instead start coming in later, telling her you cannot go out to the usual place Saturday nights. Sex needs to be placed in the context of the overall relationship. 

She might have some legitimate concerns and grievances and he needs to address that. If there is some way he can improve their sex life, he needs to address that.


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