# wife like a different person almost overnight_ separation discussions!



## richard_73

Hi everyone,

Married 17 years and absolutely love her.
Approaching 40 she has been talking about feeling directionless and the usual sub-40 life questions.

So suddenly she became really nasty and hostile, saying some terrible things. Refused to talk. Just wanted space and more space.

Now it turns out she has had feelings for someone but claims nothing happened. She also claims to have called it off!

In a v bad situation. I cant walk away from her as I love her completely.

We've never had any problems before. 

Absolutely at a loss to what to do!

She has lost weight and has joined a gym and seems like a diff person but from the outside looking in I feel it's plain midlife crisis but she will not admit this.

I feel we should work it out and be stronger for it but she can't be convinced.

What to do?

Rich


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## Pamvhv

This should be posted in coping with infidelity because your wife is most definitely having a midlife affair. Whether it is emotional or physical is up to you to discover. Look through her phone and computer and compile evidence and then hit her with it.


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## richard_73

Pamvhv said:


> This should be posted in coping with infidelity because your wife is most definitely having a midlife affair. Whether it is emotional or physical is up to you to discover. Look through her phone and computer and compile evidence and then hit her with it.


Thanks. my mistake.

I found some strange stuff on the PC already but theres always a story.

After all these years she doesn't even owe me honesty!

As for the phone, she has a password on her samsung and she keeps it close. she is permanantly texting!

R


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## Pamvhv

richard_73 said:


> Thanks. my mistake.
> 
> I found some strange stuff on the PC already but theres always a story.
> 
> After all these years she doesn't even owe me honesty!
> 
> As for the phone, she has a password on her samsung and she keeps it close. she is permanantly texting!
> 
> R


That's how it started with my husband. I suggest you get and read Divorce Busting and the Divorce Remedy if you want to reconcile.


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## richard_73

Pamvhv said:


> That's how it started with my husband. I suggest you get and read Divorce Busting and the Divorce Remedy if you want to reconcile.


Sorry to hear that!

I could really do with some luck here.
Gotta wonder how a level headed girl can just turn like that.

I can't understand how she doesn't think its worth saving. Everything will go to absolute sh*t if we take this path.

Seems so pointless. so disappointed and hurt.

R


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## Pamvhv

She can't see logically right now, Richard. She's in the affair fog. I know how much you're hurting and how fast thoughts are flying through your head. Please read about the affair fog and the 180. It's your only shot now. Also try to figure out if it was an emotional or physical affair. You have to be the one to take all of this on. Because she is unwilling and unable at the moment.


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## LongWalk

Maybe he dumped her


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## bandit.45

It is definitely an affair. Stay cool while you gather info. VARs, keylogger ion her computer, spyware on her phone. Don't confront her until you have solid, undeniable evidence.

Have this thread sent over to the CWI section. You will get more advice there.


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## jerry123

It's pretty obvious she was/is in a EA ready to take it to PA. If the PA has not already happened. 

Stop asking her about strange behavior and keep eyes and ears open. 

Can you check cell/text records? 

Stop trying to be so nice about it. She said she had feeling for someone else but it's over. It's not over, they most likely are still talking. OM is probably saying sweet nothings to her. 

Do you know him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

richard_73 said:


> Sorry to hear that!
> 
> I could really do with some luck here.
> Gotta wonder how a level headed girl can just turn like that.
> 
> I can't understand how she doesn't think its worth saving. Everything will go to absolute sh*t if we take this path.
> 
> Seems so pointless. so disappointed and hurt.
> 
> R



It's called dopamine. Makes the brain do all sorts of things in a person. Both male and female.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richard_73

jerry123 said:


> It's pretty obvious she was/is in a EA ready to take it to PA. If the PA has not already happened.
> 
> Stop asking her about strange behavior and keep eyes and ears open.
> 
> Can you check cell/text records?
> 
> Stop trying to be so nice about it. She said she had feeling for someone else but it's over. It's not over, they most likely are still talking. OM is probably saying sweet nothings to her.
> 
> Do you know him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


she absolutely will not give me 100% disclosure! I have no idea who he is. 

Cant sleep and I'm falling to bits. Doesn't matter what anyone says to me. She is my whole life! gutted : (

gotta read about this 180 stuff. I have ticked all the boxes on her list but she is not negotiating any more or making sense, she's telling lies and generally behaving v flaky. Who is she?

R


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## richard_73

jerry123 said:


> It's called dopamine. Makes the brain do all sorts of things in a person. Both male and female.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes. im almost 100% it's limerance. 
She is under the spell.
I wish I could find this guy and speak to him.
But what diff would that make. He is screwing my life but really its her call!

R


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## tom67

Look at the phone records.
Put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in her car and one in the house.
You should get your answers.


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## tom67

And if you do find out who it is and he has a gf or w, you let her know asap.
Once exposed affairs are not so easy to carry on.


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## honcho

Why do you think talking to the OM will do any good. Your wife made a choice, she wasn’t forced and the hard lesson to grasp at this point is all the midlife, hormones, affair fog really at some point are all just excuses to justify decisions made.

She probably wants the separation because the OM has either dumped her and with freedom can pursue him or she wants to shack up as it has escalated to that point. The old saying that you are the last to know….guess what? 

She wants a separation do not agree to it. All it will do is train the two of you to learn to live without each other and most situations end up being one having the time of life and the other just waiting around. If she is unwilling to work on the marriage then file for divorce. At some point as hard as it is the quicker you make it real the faster they have to realize that “fantasyland” is what they thought it was going to be. 

It is hard, it sucks and you don’t want to do it that way but your best long term shot is taking charge and showing her the consequences of the decisions she has made.


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## 2ntnuf

Up your influence with the 180, the hard reality of divorce papers before she makes up her mind to leave you, the hard reality of others knowing she is in an affair with proof, and the very real possiblity of losing all she has. 

Timing on these will be of great importance. Many will be able to help you. I did not put the proper timing of these events into my post.

Also, you need to be the man she married years ago and more. You must increase your manliness and decrease your fear of her leaving. You must show her you have a plan of your own and it doesn't include her. She must realize she can be easily left and be on her own, in an adult world, making decisions on her own, that will affect her whole life, just as any other adult does. 

Good luck. It will not be easy and the favor in this is on the side of a divorce. You must keep a level head through it all, as best you can. Use the law to your advantage, through an attorney. See a counselor if it will help you cope during this. Take advantage of all help available that will not compromise your goals or threaten the loss of what you have worked for in your life, minus your wife as consideration. 

Be careful what you say and do. Very careful.


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## harrybrown

Get a VAR to protect yourself.

So she can't say you abused her.

Get the infor, from the computer from her phone and I agree, if you give her the divorce papers maybe she will wake up.

She is having an affair.


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## richard_73

Pamvhv said:


> She can't see logically right now, Richard. She's in the affair fog. I know how much you're hurting and how fast thoughts are flying through your head. Please read about the affair fog and the 180. It's your only shot now. Also try to figure out if it was an emotional or physical affair. You have to be the one to take all of this on. Because she is unwilling and unable at the moment.


Thanks pam.


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## 6301

richard_73 said:


> she absolutely will not give me 100% disclosure! I have no idea who he is.
> 
> Cant sleep and I'm falling to bits. Doesn't matter what anyone says to me. She is my whole life! gutted : (
> 
> gotta read about this 180 stuff. I have ticked all the boxes on her list but she is not negotiating any more or making sense, she's telling lies and generally behaving v flaky. Who is she?
> 
> R


 If she wants to act like a spoiled brat and a piss poor wife then fight fire with fire. It's the only way she's going to understand because she isn't playing games with you. She knows full well that she has you by the short hairs and can do what she wants and treat you anyway she wants because she knows that you'll do nothing about it except come back for more so what do you do.

You fight back and for the time being, forget that she's your wife because she's forgotten that your her husband. Let her know in a very firm and serious way your up to your ears with her bull$h!t and you not putting up with it any longer and if she ain't happy then tell her to go find another place to live and make some other guys life miserable because your not taking it any more.

Then if she wont move out then move her things in the spare room and tell her that she's no longer welcome to sleep in the marital bed. 

Another thing. Buy a VAR and carry it with you and keep it on just in case she wants to play the victim card.

Above all. STOP PLAYING THE NICE GUY! You see where it's getting you. Maybe that will wake her up and if not then go see an attorney and have papers drawn up, hand them to her and wish her good luck. If anything, it will get her off her ass and start wondering if she went a step too far.


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## richard_73

honcho said:


> Why do you think talking to the OM will do any good. Your wife made a choice, she wasn’t forced and the hard lesson to grasp at this point is all the midlife, hormones, affair fog really at some point are all just excuses to justify decisions made.
> 
> She probably wants the separation because the OM has either dumped her and with freedom can pursue him or she wants to shack up as it has escalated to that point. The old saying that you are the last to know….guess what?
> 
> She wants a separation do not agree to it. All it will do is train the two of you to learn to live without each other and most situations end up being one having the time of life and the other just waiting around. If she is unwilling to work on the marriage then file for divorce. At some point as hard as it is the quicker you make it real the faster they have to realize that “fantasyland” is what they thought it was going to be.
> 
> It is hard, it sucks and you don’t want to do it that way but your best long term shot is taking charge and showing her the consequences of the decisions she has made.


what a mess! Who knows with the other guy. did she break it off or not? getting really tired with all this double talk, psychology and guesswork. 
You know the worst thing is the nastyness and the attacking vindictive untruthful comments. Really hits you in the chest. You never thought it possible that your partner could say such stuff! Its just like jibberish really and she doesn't even remember saying a lot of the stuff during subsequent conversations. It has been almost more like demonic possession!
Rich


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## LongWalk

As Tom suggested VAR her car and the room the house she phones from.

Hit the gym. Lift weights.

180. File for divorce.

Be cool, calm and collected.

Do not be needy. Show her that you can move to a better life without her.

Do not get angry with her. Fake indifference if you have to.


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## Chaparral

richard_73 said:


> what a mess! Who knows with the other guy. did she break it off or not? getting really tired with all this double talk, psychology and guesswork.
> You know the worst thing is the nastyness and the attacking vindictive untruthful comments. Really hits you in the chest. You never thought it possible that your partner could say such stuff! Its just like jibberish really and she doesn't even remember saying a lot of the stuff during subsequent conversations. It has been almost more like demonic possession!
> Rich


Its not jibberish, it her way of telling you the affair is still on and its physical. You putting up with it is going to lose any chance of saving your family. Being nice to her just showas her you are weak and unworthy of her. The OM takes what he wants.

HAVE YOU CHECKED THE PHONE BILL TO SEE WHO IT IS?

Usually, the OM is married and will throw her under the bus to save his a$$ at home. Quit wringing your hands and do whatever it takes to find him. If she gets on the phone, grab it while its unlocked and outrun her.


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## richard_73

Chaparral said:


> Its not jibberish, it her way of telling you the affair is still on and its physical. You putting up with it is going to lose any chance of saving your family. Being nice to her just showas her you are weak and unworthy of her. The OM takes what he wants.
> 
> HAVE YOU CHECKED THE PHONE BILL TO SEE WHO IT IS?
> 
> Usually, the OM is married and will throw her under the bus to save his a$$ at home. Quit wringing your hands and do whatever it takes to find him. If she gets on the phone, grab it while its unlocked and outrun her.


lol. I hope I don't have to snatch her phone but I have considered that! I'm gonna find out one way or another. Just waiting on the new phone bill.

R


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## richard_73

LongWalk said:


> As Tom suggested VAR her car and the room the house she phones from.
> 
> Hit the gym. Lift weights.
> 
> 180. File for divorce.
> 
> Be cool, calm and collected.
> 
> Do not be needy. Show her that you can move to a better life without her.
> 
> Do not get angry with her. Fake indifference if you have to.


Always in the gym anyway. No way I'm filing for divorce, it will backfire, that's what she wants right now.
Need to wait on the right window I think.
Need to get to the bottom of Mr X, is it still on or off. Thats no1 priority.
R


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## Chaparral

richard_73 said:


> lol. I hope I don't have to snatch her phone but I have considered that!*Its worked for others here, I am more than serious, its take charge time or take it like his b!tch. There aren't a lot of choices, file or fight. of course there is be nice and sweet and have the open marriage you have now.* I'm gonna find out one way or another. Just waiting on the new phone bill.*its 2014, you don't wait on a phone bill yu get it on line*
> 
> R


She hasn't handed over all her passwords to her text, email, phone accts? Then she isn't even close to trying to be your wife. Lots of sex for you? Hysterical bonding? If not she's got more than one foot out the door. Holding on to her phone for dear life? She's making sure you don't intercept a love call.


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## Chaparral

There are thousands of cheater threads here. There are only small variations in them all. They will follow a script many here can write for you.

If she wont give you his name, all you have accomplished so far is to know she is cheating on you and her kids.


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## LongWalk

The person who wants the relationship least has the most power over the other. That is why filing for divorce can be a good move. But you cannot recreate attraction easily if it is really, really dead. Read Bagdon's thread.


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## Chaparral

richard_73 said:


> Always in the gym anyway. No way I'm filing for divorce, it will backfire, that's what she wants right now.
> Need to wait on the right window I think.
> Need to get to the bottom of Mr X, is it still on or off. Thats no1 priority.
> R


If you think she wants a divorce, tell her to pack her stuff. At least do not let her into the bed with you. Make this as uncomfortable as possible.

Ask he girlfriends who she is cheating with. That's a great way to expose her affair. Ask her parents if they know. If your kids are older than & they need to know she is cheating. Maybe they have seen her with "Uncle Bob".

You make it easy on her and not only will she be gone, she will take you to the cleaners. She has you on your back foot, take command and fight.


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## Chaparral

LongWalk said:


> The person who wants the relationship least has the most power over the other. That is why filing for divorce can be a good move. But you cannot recreate attraction easily if it is really, really dead. Read Bagdon's thread.


Odds are he only wants an easy lay. Ask her why she hasn't moved in with him.

Ask her how long its going to get out and you will help her pack.

Nothing can save some marriages, but shock and awe works a lot. Being nice never does.

She needs to think you would not live with a cheating ho for anything in the world. Would her parents talk sense to her?

Most likely suspects are at her work place, gym, yoga, etc. even a girlfriend at times. Is she a nurse or teacher?


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## bandit.45

*The 180*

Q: 

What is 180 and how does it work? 

A: 

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. 

So here's the list: 

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. 

No frequent phone calls. 

Don't point out "good points" in marriage. 

Don't follow her/him around the house. 

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future. 

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS. 

Don't ask for reassurances. 

Don't buy or give gifts. 

Don't schedule dates together. 

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable. 

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life! 

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent. 

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy! 

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to! 

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested. 

Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are moving on with your life! With out them possibly! 

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing. 

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value. 

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation! 

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF! Don't be overly enthusiastic. 

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all! 
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more! 

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything. 

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil. 

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly. 

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write. 

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy. 

Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care! 

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior. 

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!" 

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message. 

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. 

Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."


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## lancaster

People are giving you suggestions,e.g VAR. Are you following them?


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## richard_73

thanks everyone for the support and suggestions!
Still trying to decide what to do. Cant believe I'm having to fight just to have a proper calm conversation.

Don't know if I should speak to her girlfriends, they may rat me out.

Maybe her parents would be a good idea?

Still no sign of a lull in the storm.

R


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## richard_73

lancaster said:


> People are giving you suggestions,e.g VAR. Are you following them?


thanks lancaster but no I haven't done that yet!
Seems like her mind is made up. She is well under the spell and I am well in the dark.

R


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## richard_73

LongWalk said:


> The person who wants the relationship least has the most power over the other. That is why filing for divorce can be a good move. But you cannot recreate attraction easily if it is really, really dead. Read Bagdon's thread.


sorry where can I find Bagdon's thread??

Thanks


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## honcho

I would suggest not talking to her girlfriends or family. If they know something odds are they aren’t going to tell you anything right now and if they don’t they will immediately call her and start asking questions.

You don’t want to expose her till you have more proof and you don’t want to give up your position right now. She has most likely already started to demonize you to them so when she leaves or files for divorce she has you painted as the bad guy. Its what they do. 

Weightlifter on this site has extensive postings on surveillance and getting information. Your best bet is to play sleuth and gather info so you can be prepared to either confront her or expose her to family/friends when the time is right.


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## alphaomega

R,

She's not your whole life. That's the first mistake you are making. Leads you to be clingy and needy.

Take this time to read a book called "no more mr. Nice guy".

It's got good advise for you. Don't be confused by the title. It's not about being a jerk.


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## 2ntnuf

Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. is good, too. It's a slightly different approach.


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## Mr Blunt

> *By Richard*
> I cant walk away from her as I love her completely
> 
> Cant sleep and I'm falling to bits. Doesn't matter what anyone says to me. She is my whole life! gutted : (
> 
> 
> No way I'm filing for divorce, it will backfire, that's what she wants right now.




Richard
*You have set yourself up to be walked on and made into a door mat*. If you have any chance at all of getting this fog infested woman back you need to be strong and do the 180.



I hope that you and she make it but she IS NOT your whole life. If she is your WHOLE life then you need to realize that you cannot put your whole life in any ones hands. I know that does not sound very romantic but it is reality. Never put your WHOLE life into some one’s hands that will betray you. *She has betrayed you and you have no choice but to get stronger or crumble.*


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## richard_73

Mr Blunt said:


> Richard
> *You have set yourself up to be walked on and made into a door mat*. If you have any chance at all of getting this fog infested woman back you need to be strong and do the 180.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that you and she make it but she IS NOT your whole life. If she is your WHOLE life then you need to realize that you cannot put your whole life in any ones hands. I know that does not sound very romantic but it is reality. Never put your WHOLE life into some one’s hands that will betray you. *She has betrayed you and you have no choice but to get stronger or crumble.*


Yes, I'm starting to see that i've really fu***d this up so far.
This is probably why shes off in the first place. because I've been too nice! WTF.
The human race are a ****ty breed. 

So let me get this straight.

1. Never rely on anyone
2. Never trust anyone fully
3. Relationships are nothing more than a chess game

This has made me feel loads better! : (

Appreciate everyones advice but I'm soo f***** pissed off with humanity right now.

R


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## 2ntnuf

Have you read the stickies in CWI? Some of this is in there. It's a plan. What you have to realize is, she made her decision long before she did anything. 

You have to give consequences now, and live for you, because she probably won't come back. You only have a slim chance, if you show her you care about you and are moving forward with your life, whatever she does. 

Yeah, it's one of the toughest lessons in life, but it will do you the most good. 

Don't know if someone posted a link to this, but it's what you need to do, if you aren't. It will help you detach, so you can at least have that slim chance. Then, it would be good to read some stuff in the Men's Clubhouse. They have stickies there that can help you. Thing is, you have to live for you. I'm sorry your life is turned upside down. 

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## C3156

I am just going to post this thread from member weightlifter. Good info for VAR's and general gathering of information on SO affairs.




weightlifter said:


> Complete VAR instructions. Plus lots of other stuff. Take the VARS back if they are not sony. Especially the RCA ones. RCA has a timeout feature. NO i have no financial interest in Sony but I KNOW WHAT WORKS!
> 
> Remember you NEVER ever tell about the VARS. NEVER EVER give them up or talk about them as sources. EVER!
> 
> VARs and evidence
> 
> Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up.
> 
> If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.
> 
> Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.
> 
> So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
> Rule 1 for this.
> SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
> Rule 2 for this.
> SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
> Rule 3 for this.
> SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
> 
> NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY!
> 
> Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.
> 
> Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
> Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
> Set VOR "on" see page 38
> See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
> Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT
> Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.
> 
> Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
> This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
> also
> Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
> The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white.
> 
> Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
> attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
> 
> Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.
> 
> I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.
> 
> Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.
> 
> IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.
> 
> If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality.
> 
> Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!
> 
> The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.
> 
> Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.
> 
> There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.
> 
> Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
> Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
> 
> If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work.
> 
> For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords
> 
> For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords
> 
> If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell.
> 
> Credit john1068
> Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...
> 
> On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself.
> 
> There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there.
> 
> Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.
> 
> You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.
> 
> Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.
> 
> Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...
> 
> But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ).
> 
> They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.
> 
> IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.
> 
> IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.
> 
> Credit rodphoto 01162014
> After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.
> 
> From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!
> 
> Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.
> 
> "spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked.
> 
> Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.
> 
> Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed.
> 
> Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward.
> 
> Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears.
> 
> You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history!
> 
> Credit tacoma 03072014
> 
> This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history
> 
> Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything said into the phone is right here. I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to. Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS. It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


----------



## Cubby

richard_73 said:


> Yes, I'm starting to see that i've really fu***d this up so far.
> This is probably why shes off in the first place. because I've been too nice! WTF.
> The human race are a ****ty breed.
> 
> So let me get this straight.
> 
> 1. Never rely on anyone
> 2. Never trust anyone fully
> 3. Relationships are nothing more than a chess game
> 
> This has made me feel loads better! : (
> 
> Appreciate everyones advice but I'm soo f***** pissed off with humanity right now.
> 
> R


A "trust, but verify" policy is best.


----------



## LongWalk

Bagdon's thread

She said with a man I don't love anymore


----------



## richard_73

2ntnuf said:


> Have you read the stickies in CWI? Some of this is in there. It's a plan. What you have to realize is, she made her decision long before she did anything.
> 
> You have to give consequences now, and live for you, because she probably won't come back. You only have a slim chance, if you show her you care about you and are moving forward with your life, whatever she does.
> 
> Yeah, it's one of the toughest lessons in life, but it will do you the most good.
> 
> Don't know if someone posted a link to this, but it's what you need to do, if you aren't. It will help you detach, so you can at least have that slim chance. Then, it would be good to read some stuff in the Men's Clubhouse. They have stickies there that can help you. Thing is, you have to live for you. I'm sorry your life is turned upside down.
> 
> The Healing Heart: The 180


Thanks all for the posts...really appreciate them
I can't seem to pull myself together at all. Ive read all the 180 stuff and the VAR espionage stuff. Just feel even lower that I'm having to consider this crap.
Can't get out of bed, Cant sleep, don't want to eat, i've acted like a doormat.
All this because she felt directionless and bored! I could never have predicted this storm in a million years. The problem with the 180 is I'm "not" moving forward with my life. Feels like I don't really have a life at the moment. I have zero interest in any of the things I once did for fun. I just sit with the same thoughts looping through my head and they're making it much worse.
I really need to snap out of this ...
Think my denial phase is on its last legs.
R


----------



## 2ntnuf

richard_73 said:


> Thanks all for the posts...really appreciate them
> I can't seem to pull myself together at all. Ive read all the 180 stuff and the VAR espionage stuff. Just feel even lower that I'm having to consider this crap.
> Can't get out of bed, Cant sleep, don't want to eat, i've acted like a doormat.
> All this because she felt directionless and bored! I could never have predicted this storm in a million years. The problem with the 180 is I'm "not" moving forward with my life. Feels like I don't really have a life at the moment. I have zero interest in any of the things I once did for fun. I just sit with the same thoughts looping through my head and they're making it much worse.
> I really need to snap out of this ...
> Think my denial phase is on its last legs.
> R





> I can't seem to pull myself together at all.
> 
> Can't get out of bed, Cant sleep, don't want to eat...
> 
> Just feel even lower that I'm having to consider this crap.
> 
> I'm "not" moving forward with my life. Feels like I don't really have a life at the moment. I have zero interest in any of the things I once did for fun. I just sit with the same thoughts looping through my head and they're making it much worse.
> I really need to snap out of this ...


Signs of depression. That doesn't mean you are weak. It doesn't mean you are flawed. It just is, and can be relieved with the right help. 

Get to a doctor/psychologist/psychiatrist who can evaluate you and maybe prescribe some anti-depressants. This is somewhat normal, but can be helped with as little as some counseling, and maybe some added help of meds. 




> i've acted like a doormat.


I'll take a chance and write, "most men do or the vast majority". If I am wrong, I'm not far off. 




> All this because she felt directionless and bored!


Likely much more than that, but she isn't telling you. She may not yet know all the reasons herself. She decided on her own, though. 

Force yourself to get to the doctor.


----------



## richard_73

Thanks for the post. I don't take prescribed chemicals so I need to do this the hard way. i realise they may work for some but I have my reasons.

Particularly interested in what you say here:

"Likely much more than that, but she isn't telling you. She may not yet know all the reasons herself. She decided on her own, though"

Doesn't that mean there is still an opportunity to sit down and create a plan or see a marriage counselor?

I know that before all this started she had voiced concerns about feeling directionless in life (ie) what are we doing?

I consider the origin of the whole storm to be midlife malaise orientated. instead of being fixed it went on and on for a few years when it should have been addressed aggresively!


We were both suffering this to some degree but clearly we have dealt with it v differently.

I feel she is projecting the whole angst onto me as a quick fix.

That's my instinct on the origins of this storm BUT what good does my theory do.


R


----------



## 2ntnuf

richard_73 said:


> Thanks for the post. I don't take prescribed chemicals so I need to do this the hard way. i realise they may work for some but I have my reasons.
> 
> Particularly interested in what you say here:
> 
> "Likely much more than that, but she isn't telling you. She may not yet know all the reasons herself. She decided on her own, though"
> 
> Doesn't that mean there is still an opportunity to sit down and create a plan or see a marriage counselor?
> 
> No, not necessarily.
> 
> I know that before all this started she had voiced concerns about feeling directionless in life (ie) what are we doing?
> 
> I consider the origin of the whole storm to be midlife malaise orientated. instead of being fixed it went on and on for a few years when it should have been addressed aggresively!
> 
> Yeah, that's a common theme.
> 
> 
> We were both suffering this to some degree but clearly we have dealt with it v differently.
> 
> I feel she is projecting the whole angst onto me as a quick fix.
> 
> I know her well enough to feel confident in this theory BUT that doesn't get me anywhere without her agreement/admittal/co-operation
> 
> R


And there is nothing you can do to make her do that, nor should you. 

All you can do is work on you, and maybe, just maybe, if you do, she will notice. The odds aren't in your favor, though.

Best to start the 180. There are foods that can help with depression and anxiety. It would be well worth the effort to look those up and get what you can. Increase your physical activity/exercise or start. Wear yourself out before you have to go to bed. 

Start a journal and write about what you have accomplished each day, what you are grateful for having. 

Start some positive self-talk. It's going to read silly, but look in the mirror and say, "I like myself. I love myself. I respect myself." Seems odd, but it truly does help. 

If all you can do is get out of bed, then write that as an accomplishment. When you do the smallest thing, write that and continue to do it, adding things to the list and continuing them as you go. 

Counseling will help you. You don't have to take meds. You can talk with a doctor about your reasons. You can talk to someone who deals with holistic remedies, while keeping your doctor in the loop, so you don't do something that might hurt you. 

You have to force yourself.


----------



## Alpha

Richard I feel bad for you and feel for you cause I went through the same thing. Your story is a script that has played out on this forum over and over again. 

Your wife destroyed your marriage with no concern. If you talk to her, she will blame you for her actions, like all of this is your fault. She will say that she was feeling like this for a while, that you are controlling, that you don't communicate, that she felt alone, blah, blah, blah. 

The advice given here is very typical. I did them all, the 180, spyware, etc. In the end, none of it will matter. You only need to answer yourself two questions: Can I live with this woman again without the thought of her f*cking and pleasuring someone else? And, can I ever live with this woman without watching her every move?

If the answer is NO, then the faster you can get your wife out of your life the better it is for you.

I tried for over a year to save my marriage and the mental agony drove me insane. I always had something in the back of my mind and could feel that my wife was never there completely. I learned that you can't force your wife to love you. 

Consult with an attorney asap, know your rights and try to get out of this mess with the least financial damage as possible. It would suck that you may have to support her while she goes out and f*cks other guys. It was enough to drive an ex-football player and announcer crazy if you know what I mean.

Sorry but that part of your life is probably over and its time for the new chapter. You'll learn that your world and your life should never revolve around a woman. There is a good life out there waiting for you.


----------



## richard_73

Alpha said:


> Richard I feel bad for you and feel for you cause I went through the same thing. Your story is a script that has played out on this forum over and over again.
> 
> Your wife destroyed your marriage with no concern. If you talk to her, she will blame you for her actions, like all of this is your fault. She will say that she was feeling like this for a while, that you are controlling, that you don't communicate, that she felt alone, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> The advice given here is very typical. I did them all, the 180, spyware, etc. In the end, none of it will matter. You only need to answer yourself two questions: Can I live with this woman again without the thought of her f*cking and pleasuring someone else? And, can I ever live with this woman without watching her every move?
> 
> If the answer is NO, then the faster you can get your wife out of your life the better it is for you.
> 
> I tried for over a year to save my marriage and the mental agony drove me insane. I always had something in the back of my mind and could feel that my wife was never there completely. I learned that you can't force your wife to love you.
> 
> Consult with an attorney asap, know your rights and try to get out of this mess with the least financial damage as possible. It would suck that you may have to support her while she goes out and f*cks other guys. It was enough to drive an ex-football player and announcer crazy if you know what I mean.
> 
> Sorry but that part of your life is probably over and its time for the new chapter. You'll learn that your world and your life should never revolve around a woman. There is a good life out there waiting for you.


Thanks Alpha, especially for the good vibes. I know there can be another good life out there somewhere waiting but I'm far from ready for that notion yet.

You are right about deciding if she can be trusted, it's the biggest factor.

Also right about her claiming its all my fault. The character assassination has been malevolent and untruthful.

I need more information before I can make any big decisions.

The clock is ticking!

Thanks

Rich


----------



## 2ntnuf

The 180 will help you detach whether you R or D. Alpha is telling you the truth. He's right. You can't believe a word she says to you. It's a hell of a battle. There are those here who have R'd. It ain't easy and she has to want to do it. You can take a look at the Reconciliation thread and read what was done by others. The bottom line is, can you handle things and mainly will your wife want to reconcile? 

Either way, th 180 will help you. You are taking a tough road. You can lose everything and someday, you might be really kicking yourself. Best to take the steps to divorce, even if you don't.


----------



## richard_73

Cubby said:


> A "trust, but verify" policy is best.


just ordered some sony VAR's. Good tips here.
I have to know the truth. I only hope I haven't alarmed her too much to spend time in the house!

Time will tell. God this sucks! : (

R


----------



## richard_73

C3156 said:


> I am just going to post this thread from member weightlifter. Good info for VAR's and general gathering of information on SO affairs.


what about microphones? Are the built in ones any good?

if I Velcro one under a sear in the car can it still pick up voice clearly?

Maybe I need cable mics to plug in?

R


----------



## richard_73

Alpha said:


> Richard I feel bad for you and feel for you cause I went through the same thing. Your story is a script that has played out on this forum over and over again.
> 
> Your wife destroyed your marriage with no concern. If you talk to her, she will blame you for her actions, like all of this is your fault. She will say that she was feeling like this for a while, that you are controlling, that you don't communicate, that she felt alone, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> The advice given here is very typical. I did them all, the 180, spyware, etc. In the end, none of it will matter. You only need to answer yourself two questions: Can I live with this woman again without the thought of her f*cking and pleasuring someone else? And, can I ever live with this woman without watching her every move?
> 
> If the answer is NO, then the faster you can get your wife out of your life the better it is for you.
> 
> I tried for over a year to save my marriage and the mental agony drove me insane. I always had something in the back of my mind and could feel that my wife was never there completely. I learned that you can't force your wife to love you.
> 
> Consult with an attorney asap, know your rights and try to get out of this mess with the least financial damage as possible. It would suck that you may have to support her while she goes out and f*cks other guys. It was enough to drive an ex-football player and announcer crazy if you know what I mean.
> 
> Sorry but that part of your life is probably over and its time for the new chapter. You'll learn that your world and your life should never revolve around a woman. There is a good life out there waiting for you.


I'm really starting to bug out on this whole situation.

Just can't seem to face it at all. My dreams are torture. 
I dream she is next to me in bed and everything is normal. When i wake and see the reality I'm in a terrifying place. Alone and lying there imagining her with another guy, financial hell and the shame of not being good enough. All my friends and family talking about us.

It seems so cruel that the dreams are doing this to me, I realise it's the years of conditioning. My deep mind knows only the daily routines. Why wouldn't she be there!

My mind is completely short circuited, I can't control it even with meditation. My logical mind knows I need to calm myself and start the 180 but I can't bring myself to start it!

I've purchased Sony VAR's but the project makes me sick to my stomach.

this is without a doubt the worst space i have ever been in. Pure hell, esp for a mind like mine that cannot ignore the elephant in the corner of the room!

Another long day

R


----------



## alphaomega

Ahh, dude...

Two things. 

1. You are also following a script...the betrayed script. It's normal. Everyone goes through those same emotions. And thoughts. And depression. And weight loss. There's a reason someone termed the phrase...divorce diet. It will pass. Sometimes it takes longer for some. Thoughts of divorce are scary. Full of the unknown. Your mind is full of fear...and the fear of change. 

2. Humanity isn't wrecked. Even though you may feel that way. Sometimes good people do bad things. Sometimes people are jst bad. Sometimes people just dont understand what they are doing or how it can be destructive. But yes, all interactions in life, even relationships are chess games. Give and take. It's normal human interactions. How much fun is it playing chess with someone that takes all your pieces and you take none? Soon, you find a more compatible chess partner matched to your style so you can enjoy the chess game again.

Hang in there, bud.

And I respect your decision on script drugs. But...if you had a big ass arrow stuck in your chess, would you take the morphine in the hospital or suffer the pain while it's being removed? Bud! You gots a big arrow in your chest right now! It fkn hurts!


----------



## Alpha

Its pure mental anguish Richard. I resorted to the bottle and smokes, and reached levels of intoxication I am not proud of. It affected everything, including my business. I hope you don't fall into the same spiral that I or many others here have. Try and gut it out.

I didn't go the VAR route but put a key logger in her computer which gave me access to every website she visited, all emails, and social media passwords. I saw everything, and it destroyed me. 

A year later, after a failed reconciliation, I received a reminder email if I wanted to renew my key logger subscription. I made the stupid mistake of renewing that subscription. The temptation to see what she was doing was overwhelming and I read every email, saw every website and every facebook message as she went on with her new life. What do you think that did to me? 

I don't know what placing those VARs are going to do for you. You already know what your wife is up to, but do you want to go insane by finding out all the little details? It will only drive you crazy. 

Don't bother trying to break up the affair by contacting the other guy. Don't bother trying to reach out to her friends ( I did, what a dumb mistake). Don't bother with marriage counseling (did it, useless). Don't bother talking to her family (another stupid mistake I did).

She says, "Richard, you're controlling, you're suffocating me, I can't breathe right now, I need my space" You say, "Sure. In fact, I'll help you pack your bags so you can get out of the house now. Don't make any attempt to call or reach me. My attorney will be in touch with you this week." 

I'll say it again, the faster you can get this woman out of your life, the better it will be for you.


----------



## richard_73

Alpha said:


> Its pure mental anguish Richard. I resorted to the bottle and smokes, and reached levels of intoxication I am not proud of. It affected everything, including my business. I hope you don't fall into the same spiral that I or many others here have. Try and gut it out.
> 
> I didn't go the VAR route but put a key logger in her computer which gave me access to every website she visited, all emails, and social media passwords. I saw everything, and it destroyed me.
> 
> A year later, after a failed reconciliation, I received a reminder email if I wanted to renew my key logger subscription. I made the stupid mistake of renewing that subscription. The temptation to see what she was doing was overwhelming and I read every email, saw every website and every facebook message as she went on with her new life. What do you think that did to me?
> 
> I don't know what placing those VARs are going to do for you. You already know what your wife is up to, but do you want to go insane by finding out all the little details? It will only drive you crazy.
> 
> Don't bother trying to break up the affair by contacting the other guy. Don't bother trying to reach out to her friends ( I did, what a dumb mistake). Don't bother with marriage counseling (did it, useless). Don't bother talking to her family (another stupid mistake I did).
> 
> She says, "Richard, you're controlling, you're suffocating me, I can't breathe right now, I need my space" You say, "Sure. In fact, I'll help you pack your bags so you can get out of the house now. Don't make any attempt to call or reach me. My attorney will be in touch with you this week."
> 
> I'll say it again, the faster you can get this woman out of your life, the better it will be for you.


Thanks alphaomega and alpha.
today i can't seem to stop remembering good times and each reflection feels like a cage fight. Favourite places destroyed, Favorite music destroyed. What the hell has she done to me.

Your right about the VAR. I just cancelled the purchase. What good will that do me anyway. Snooping around like a psycho.

if she doesn't want me what difference does evidence make?

I already used a keylogger and one of the things I read has scarred me for life. I really wish I hadn't. it didn't help at all.

there is no way I'm ready to give up on her yet, that's physically and mentally impossible.

I'm gripping onto some hope but everything in my subconscious is saying "let go". I can't.

I appreciate and respect the wisdom of your experiences and I know your right but I need to keep bashing my head off this wall until I'm bloody enough to stop through sheer survival instinct. 


I know I'm making a meal of this but it's been a long amazing marriage and partnership and I've been utterly blindsided.

The first few weeks I was drinking more every day but I've stopped that.

Thanks for taking the time to write, its a big help although your advice seems just impossible to carry out right now!

I wonder how much of this I can take.

R


----------



## 2ntnuf

Well, many members here at TAM will tell you the first step is to do the 180. 

When I first came here, I ran across this post by a member. I'm not telling you what to do. I can't make that decision for you. You never know who you are communicating with. You wife might have already been here and decided it's best to leave. Who knows? In any case, she would have to be able to see you in a different light. You would have to make changes for her to even consider reconciliation. I don't blame you for wanting to reconcile. It is a choice only you can make. 

This is an interesting perspective. Although you may not agree with it, the member does have some good points. 

morituri
Member



Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,463 Just Let Them Go
________________________________________
I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.
Quote:
I really enjoyed a discussion that cropped up in the manosphere yesterday starting with the inimitable Dalrock, and slowly expanded by one of his anonymous readers, and then by Hawaiian Libertarian.

It started with Dalrock’s development of a metaphor of marriage as a dining experience:

" I don’t have time to really do this justice, but I’ll take a quick shot at it. I share your view in wanting marriage for both men and women. This is why I write on the topics I write about. Marriage is too essential to turn our backs on, even though it has suffered great violence from the culture, the state, and a treacherous church. The analogy I’ll offer isn’t perfect but hopefully gets the basic idea across.

Those of us who are happily married are sitting in a fine restaurant, enjoying our meals. Outside are a crowd of would be patrons, but the restaurant is full and they won’t be seated. However, the crowd outside decides to make the best of it. They set up a grill and hold an impromptu cookout. Some number of them comment that they wouldn’t trade sitting in our boring stuffy restaurant for the experience of cooking and eating in the outdoors with the company of the rest of the crowd.

While I think the restaurant is better, I’m not going to call out to them, to try to convince them that they really should regret that they didn’t get a table. Instead I’m going to focus what influence I have on making that option available to more diners. I’ll try to get the restaurant down the street to start following the health codes so they don’t poison people. But to do that first I have to take on the corrupt health inspector (the church), etc.

Besides, who am I to tell the people making the best of the cookout that they don’t really enjoy being there more than they would enjoy being in the restaurant? Not all of us have the same tastes. Given the lack of options, I truly hope that the cookout is what makes them happy. If someone wants to know how they can get a table I’ll offer the best advice I have on finding one, including advice on avoiding restaurants like the one down the street.

The lack of open tables at the restaurant is visible in the data I’ve shown here, both in delayed marriage trends by women and in the kicking of fathers out of the home. Not everyone gets this “food poisoning”, but those who do can suffer immensely."
Which was then expanded by an Anonymous reader:
Quote:
"Dalrock, although your analogy is interesting, it is incomplete. You need to include the whole picture.

And that is, some number of couples in the restaurant suddenly leave; the woman stands up, shrieks to the management that her escort is simply beastly, and a couple of pug-ugly bouncers come, rough him up, take his wallet, beat the snot out of him, and throw him out the back door into the alley. She stays for a while, paying for the meal out of his wallet, and then slowly walks out the front door, to cruise around the barbecue grills for a while.

And everyone pretends nothing just happened, although some murmur of “what did HE do?” floats ’round the room. For some odd reason, there are more and more empty tables in this restaurant. Fewer customers are coming in the front door. Business is down.

The restaurant manager worries out loud that his business isn’t going well. But his bouncers continue to beat, rob, and eject men any time a woman demands it. Those men at the barbecue grills? More than a few of them used to eat in the restaurant. But after getting beaten up, robbed, beaten up some more and thrown away in to the alley, they don’t much care for restaurant food any more. They regard it as too expensive, one way or another.

There is another group circulating around the barbecue grills, and out into the street. These are women who alternate between snacking at the barbecue grills, and importuning men to take them into the restaurant. They insist they only want good restaurant food, as they wipe the grease from the barbeque off of their fingers.

Some of these women used to eat in the restaurant, but decided to have their escorts beaten and robbed. For some reason they find it a bit more difficult to get an escort back into the restaurant than previously was the case.

There’s also a shadowy crowd out beyond the barbecue grills that most diners in the restaurant can’t see. This crowd is almost entirely men. Many of them are young, but some are middle-aged or even old. No way they get into the restaurant. Although some of them used to eat there, before they got beaten up, robbed, and thrown into the alley. And nobody wants them too close to the barbecue grills, either. The women who eat at the grills and want into the restaurant scorn them. These men exist in the shadows, chewing on a dried out piece of jerky.

Every once in a while, some fat guy from the restaurant management strolls outside, and hollers at all the men in the street: “HEY ! Why don’t you Man UP and find a nice lady to escort into this restaurant? The food is great! And if you get beaten, robbed and thrown in the alley it’s all your fault! C’mon in! Be a man!” Most of the women stand with him, and echo his “Man UP!” call, ululating in chorus. The barbecue crowd jeers at him. The men in the shadows gnaw on their dried out jerky and stare at him in utter silence. He goes back into the failing restaurant and tells everyone inside how great the service is. As he speaks, another male patron is beaten, robbed, and as he’s being ejected out the back door he grabs a knife in the kitchen, then stabs himself in the heart and dies in the alley. No one in the restaurant one says a word, everyone looks away and pretends nothing just happened.

I believe this fills out the scenario a bit. How one views the restaurant depends on where one stands. Sitting in a cozy booth in the back, with family all around, the restaurant is a great place. Standing outside by the barbecue grills, the restaurant may look too expensive, the dress code too stuffy. From across the street in the shadows the restaurant looks good, but seeing man after man being beaten, robbed, and thrown away into a dumpster-strewn alley leads to a different perspective on the restaurant than one might get in the cozy back booth.

The view from the backside of the restaurant, the alley? Standing outside, with empty pockets, black eyes, and a broken nose & fingers, the restaurant is a crooked deal, run by thieves, cheats, and liars.

Perspective makes a difference"
A Gift for My Daughter
by Harry Browne
December 25, 1966 
(This article was originally published as a syndicated newspaper column, dedicated to my 9-year-old daughter.)
It’s Christmas and I have the usual problem of deciding what to give you. I know you might enjoy many things — books, games, clothes.
But I’m very selfish. I want to give you something that will stay with you for more than a few months or years. I want to give you a gift that might remind you of me every Christmas.
If I could give you just one thing, I’d want it to be a simple truth that took me many years to learn. If you learn it now, it may enrich your life in hundreds of ways. And it may prevent you from facing many problems that have hurt people who have never learned it.
The truth is simply this:
No one owes you anything.
Significance
How could such a simple statement be important? It may not seem so, but understanding it can bless your entire life.
No one owes you anything.
It means that no one else is living for you, my child. Because no one is you. Each person is living for himself; his own happiness is all he can ever personally feel.
When you realize that no one owes you happiness or anything else, you’ll be freed from expecting what isn’t likely to be.
It means no one has to love you. If someone loves you, it’s because there’s something special about you that gives him happiness. Find out what that something special is and try to make it stronger in you, so that you’ll be loved even more.
When people do things for you, it’s because they want to — because you, in some way, give them something meaningful that makes them want to please you, not because anyone owes you anything.
No one has to like you. If your friends want to be with you, it’s not out of duty. Find out what makes others happy so they’ll want to be near you.
No one has to respect you. Some people may even be unkind to you. But once you realize that people don’t have to be good to you, and may not be good to you, you’ll learn to avoid those who would harm you. For you don’t owe them anything either.
Living your Life
No one owes you anything.
You owe it to yourself to be the best person possible. Because if you are, others will want to be with you, want to provide you with the things you want in exchange for what you’re giving to them.
Some people will choose not to be with you for reasons that have nothing to do with you. When that happens, look elsewhere for the relationships you want. Don’t make someone else’s problem your problem.
Once you learn that you must earn the love and respect of others, you’ll never expect the impossible and you won’t be disappointed. Others don’t have to share their property with you, nor their feelings or thoughts.
If they do, it’s because you’ve earned these things. And you have every reason to be proud of the love you receive, your friends’ respect, the property you’ve earned. But don’t ever take them for granted. If you do, you could lose them. They’re not yours by right; you must always earn them.
My Experience
A great burden was lifted from my shoulders the day I realized that no one owes me anything. For so long as I’d thought there were things I was entitled to, I’d been wearing myself out —physically and emotionally — trying to collect them.
No one owes me moral conduct, respect, friendship, love, courtesy, or intelligence. And once I recognized that, all my relationships became far more satisfying. I’ve focused on being with people who want to do the things I want them to do.
That understanding has served me well with friends, business associates, lovers, sales prospects, and strangers. It constantly reminds me that I can get what I want only if I can enter the other person’s world. I must try to understand how he thinks, what he believes to be important, what hewants. Only then can I appeal to someone in ways that will bring me what I want.
And only then can I tell whether I really want to be involved with someone. And I can save the important relationships for those with whom I have the most in common.
It’s not easy to sum up in a few words what has taken me years to learn. But maybe if you re-read this gift each Christmas, the meaning will become a little clearer every year.
I hope so, for I want more than anything else for you to understand this simple truth that can set you free: no one owes you anything.


#15 (permalink)

morituri
Member



Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,463 Re: Just Let Them Go
________________________________________
Here are some more words of wisdom from another sage (definitely not me):

"Do not use these strategies as a manipulative tool to change what your spouse is doing. He/she will pick up on your motive and see through it. He/she will easily manipulate you back to where he/she wants you (wherever that was to make you predictable and controllable.)

You engage in these exercises and strategies because you want to for you. You know that this is the best way to live and at this point, be in relationship with your spouse. This is the best way for you to survive and retain integrity.

Here’s the kicker. A by-product of these efforts is usually dramatic changes on the part of your spouse. Don’t be surprised if he/she moves closer. Don’t be surprised if he/she does a double-take. Don’t be surprised if he/she decides to “work on the marriage.” But, don’t expect it!

1) Act Happy. Be as cheerful as possible. Be positive. Put on this behavior when you have contact with your spouse. Prepare yourself to act this way. Practice if need be. Be an actor, actress if need be. Fake it, if you must. Fake it til you truly do get to the point where you experience your life as positive. (It really is, you know!)

2) Get a life. Rekindle old hobbies or interests that you have discarded but still interest you. Try out new hobbies or interests. Think about what you really liked doing when you were 6 years old. Start doing that. (One coaching client “gave up dancing,” which was a passion, for her family and husband. Once she discovered his affair, she took it up again. She loved it. It was therapeutic. But, boy did he have a problem with it!).

3) Focus on 4 key words. Every day, every hour and every minute if need be, plaster your mind with these 4 life-saving words: I WILL MAKE IT! This becomes your mantra. Wake up with it. Put it on your mirror. Eat lunch with it. Go to sleep with it. Tell, convey in every which way to your spouse that you WILL MAKE IT. Say, “I will make it! I perfer to make it with you (if that is what you REALLY want), but if that doesn’t happen, I will make it without you. Either way, I want you to know that I will make it.” State with erect, confident body language, unblinking, direct eye contact and calm, firm, consistent tone of voice.

4) To-the-point small talk. Make conversations with your spouse brief and to the point. Talk only about the solutions to specific problems that need to be addressed, such a particular bills, household or children concerns. Let silence prevail if he/she wants to “hook” you into melodrama. Politely but firmly end such conversations.5) Tend to agree. Try to find the kernel of truth in what your spouse is saying and agree with it. Acknowledge it. He/she says, “I don’t love you
anymore.” You say, “It certainly seems that way. Thank you for your truthfulness.”He/she says, “I’m not sure what I want.” You say, “Yes, it must be confusing for you.” He/she says, “I’m thinking of moving out.” You say, “Do you have an idea of when you’re going to do that? Knowing would help me plan for my activities.”

6) Expand your social relationships, including those of the OPPOSITE SEX.Make new friends. Go to lunch. Surround yourself with interesting people who have the potential to care about you. Rekindle old friendships that have faded. With the
opposite sex? Yes! I’m not talking about a revenge affair or sleeping with someone. I’m not talking about dating for the purposes of forming a committed relationship, but to form true friendships(plural) and learning about you and how you relate, especially to those of the opposite sex.

7) Get sexy – in a healthy way. Get in shape. Lose weight. Run. Walk. Exercise. Eat right. Enjoy your body. Take supplements. Take extreme care of your body. Begin to feel healthy…and healthy is sexy. Focus on one of these tactics and begin now. Don’t wait."

__________________
"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." Robert A. Heinlein

Links


Quote:
Quote:
it is intended to show the was how much their own sleazy behavior is hurting their spouse.

And it works.

i still fail to see how a bs compromising their own integrity, values and morals is of any help to the bs. I know for myself, i could have never lowered my standards that way. I had way too much self-respect do this.

if showing that your life has real value to yourself regardless if your spouse doesn't believe this and moving on with your life and letting go of a cheating spouse and no longer waiting for someone to stop cheating on you isn't demonstrating integrity on your part, well i don't know what will.

What you don't realize (or possibly refuse to) is that waiting for your cheating spouse to return to you when they're actively involved in a extra marital affair with another person is in fact lowering your standards.

It communicates:
- i will be taken advantage of
- i am gullible
- i believe my spouse will come back to me after they've had their fun with another person
- it's ok for my spouse to cheat on me, i'll stand up for my marriage even if they've checked out
- i want someone who doesn't want me
- i will let my spouse choose when it's ok for them to come back to me
- i will allow this behavior to occur again in the future
- i don't respect myself enough to let go of people that don't value me or the relationship they have with me

in conclusion....
- i have low standards


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## richard_73

This is an interesting perspective. Although you may not agree with it, the member does have some good points. 

morituri
Member

Thanks for your post. I've read the whole text. The beginning is hard reading from where i sit. 

To "act" this out is against everything I am and everything I feel.

But I'm coming round to understanding that I have no choice at all.

The thought of telling her I want her to be happy and letting her go may actually kill me before i can finish the sentence.



R


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## 2ntnuf

I know the feeling and could not do that myself. It was the wrong choice. I was in a terrible place. I encourage you to consider getting individual counseling to help you think and talk out your emotions and choices. 

I am sorry. I figured that would hurt. It hurt me, when I was there. I've come to realize, after being here so long, and reading so many different accounts of marital infidelity, this approach is likely the best to save you from further, long-term harm. 

It is not easy, at all. That's the reason I suggest counseling and even meds, if the doctor suggests them. Many have taken the short-term to help them through the worst part of this. In the end, it is up to you. I am not doctor or counselor. I wish you no further heartache or harm. 






richard_73 said:


> This is an interesting perspective. Although you may not agree with it, the member does have some good points.
> 
> morituri
> Member
> 
> Thanks for your post. I've read the whole text. The beginning is hard reading from where i sit.
> 
> To "act" this out is against everything I am and everything I feel.
> 
> But I'm coming round to understanding that I have no choice at all.
> 
> The thought of telling her I want her to be happy and letting her go may actually kill me before i can finish the sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> R


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## richard_73

2ntnuf said:


> I know the feeling and could not do that myself. It was the wrong choice. I was in a terrible place. I encourage you to consider getting individual counseling to help you think and talk out your emotions and choices.
> 
> I am sorry. I figured that would hurt. It hurt me, when I was there. I've come to realize, after being here so long, and reading so many different accounts of marital infidelity, this approach is likely the best to save you from further, long-term harm.
> 
> It is not easy, at all. That's the reason I suggest counseling and even meds, if the doctor suggests them. Many have taken the short-term to help them through the worst part of this. In the end, it is up to you. I am not doctor or counselor. I wish you no further heartache or harm.


Thanks for sharing your experience. How long ago were u in that place?

i have a lot to consider after today's reading. 

On the subject of counsel, I have a few close friends who are unfortunate enough to give me a regular ear ( they must be bored by now ). 




respect

R


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## Alpha

richard_73 said:


> This is an interesting perspective. Although you may not agree with it, the member does have some good points.
> 
> morituri
> Member
> 
> Thanks for your post. I've read the whole text. The beginning is hard reading from where i sit.
> 
> To "act" this out is against everything I am and everything I feel.
> 
> But I'm coming round to understanding that I have no choice at all.
> 
> The thought of telling her I want her to be happy and letting her go may actually kill me before i can finish the sentence.
> 
> R


You don't ever sit her down and tell her "I want you to be happy so I'm letting you go". That is what a "*****" would say. Be more firm and kick her out of the house and show her that you won't tolerate her crap.


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## 2ntnuf

Alpha said:


> You don't ever sit her down and tell her "I want you to be happy so I'm letting you go". That is what a "*****" would say. Be more firm and kick her out of the house and show her that you won't tolerate her crap.


I have to agree with this.


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## richard_73

Alpha said:


> You don't ever sit her down and tell her "I want you to be happy so I'm letting you go". That is what a "*****" would say. Be more firm and kick her out of the house and show her that you won't tolerate her crap.


Good to know I'm not alone in thinking that line of action is total madness.

Absolutely no way.

I have given her x years of pure loyalty, honesty and respect.

People do owe each other something. That's the world I believe in.

R


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## LongWalk

Just give her the D papers. In the meanwhile 180.

If she is shocked into remorse, great. Sounds like it is not going to happen.

Let her enjoy being in love while dealing with the unromantic discussions with a divorce attorney.


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## richard_73

LongWalk said:


> Just give her the D papers. In the meanwhile 180.
> 
> If she is shocked into remorse, great. Sounds like it is not going to happen.
> 
> Let her enjoy being in love while dealing with the unromantic discussions with a divorce attorney.


thanks for the post. 

Sorry to be negative but for the moment my only thoughts about the "the 180" are " what a pack of sh*t".

I'm sitting here now half broken because of shallow values, lies and deceit.

How can I throw myself into this 180 plan when its little more than acting in front of a mirror.

If I am true to myself why am I turning 180 degrees. This is surely tantamount to admitting my whole way of life was wrong.

if I 180 right now I suspect she will vanish.

I understand the logic behind the 180, it's about surviving and not plunging deeper into the dark. But I simply don't have the heart or energy to go rollerblading today.


R


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## LongWalk

Richard,

The 180 saves you from prolonging them pain. It can on occassion snap a WS out of the so-called fog.

You cannot nice a WW back into love. You agree with that surely?

Sorry about your pain.

Today is a good day to go rollerblading. If she sees you go out and come back energized, what could be bad about that?


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## richard_73

LongWalk said:


> Richard,
> 
> The 180 saves you from prolonging them pain. It can on occassion snap a WS out of the so-called fog.
> 
> You cannot nice a WW back into love. You agree with that surely?
> 
> Sorry about your pain.
> 
> Today is a good day to go rollerblading. If she sees you go out and come back energized, what could be bad about that?


Thanks. I realise that's the theory with the 180 but my mind is having none of it.
I simply can't pretend i'm out having fun as I'm sure she will see that as "he's finally moving on, I'm gone"

Excuse my repetition, living the day hour by hour.
Absolutely cannot lose her.

R


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## Fordsvt

You need to pull your head from your a$$. You will not be able to nice her back. That's why your here. She is in a fog. She thinks the grass is greener elsewhere. You will lose being a Nice Guy. These people and me know. We've done this. 

The 180 worked for me. My wife had an EA too. Only tough love will work. 
Start detaching yourself. Do the 180. 
Show her you re strong. Be hard and calculated. 
Have separation papers drawn up. See a lawyer. 
She is in a fog. Find out who the OM is. Expose it. 
It's your only hope. Trust us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richard_73

Fordsvt said:


> You need to pull your head from your a$$. You will not be able to nice her back. That's why your here. She is in a fog. She thinks the grass is greener elsewhere. You will lose being a Nice Guy. These people and me know. We've done this.
> 
> The 180 worked for me. My wife had an EA too. Only tough love will work.
> Start detaching yourself. Do the 180.
> Show her you re strong. Be hard and calculated.
> Have separation papers drawn up. See a lawyer.
> She is in a fog. Find out who the OM is. Expose it.
> It's your only hope. Trust us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can't argue with that.

She swears that the OM is over and there is no comms with him now!

She wont tell me anything about him! Absolutely refuses.

If shes telling the truth I wonder is the fog over? I'm paranoid she is keeping him on ice for when she splits!

she has behaved like a diff person, saying nasty **** and secretive so there has def been a fog.

R


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## anchorwatch

richard_73 said:


> She swears that the OM is over and there is no comms with him now!
> 
> She wont tell me anything about him! Absolutely refuses.
> 
> If shes telling the truth I wonder is the fog over?
> 
> R


*This is for sale too....*


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## richard_73

anchorwatch said:


> *This is for sale too....*


I hope your wrong! 

I suppose its fair to say, any refusal on her part give me "full disclosure" is an admission that's its still going on.

I have the right to know who it is, exactly when it started and the truth about whats happened.

Some hard conversations coming up!

Looks like I've been in my own kind of fog! My heads been up my ass for so long i'm missing the key points now, really not thinking straight with the stress and lack of good sleep.

R


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## anchorwatch

You had an expectation not to be betrayed and you were. 

What makes you expect an explanation after that? 

As far as rights; You have the right to self respect. You have the right to be with some one that respects you. You have a right not to be in this situation any longer than it takes your lawyer/solicitor to handle this divorce. 

Do as the others have advised. Go on the offensive, and give her what she wants. File.


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## LongWalk

Richard,

You cannot have successful R without getting an NC message from her to him. You must witness this. She cannot warn him that it is coming and to disregard it.

If your wife is not anxious to hysterically bond with you, that is a sign that she is saving her vagina for OM. 

You will only become attractive to her if you are self confident.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## sammy3

richard_73 said:


> I'm really starting to bug out on this whole situation.
> 
> Just can't seem to face it at all. My dreams are torture.
> I dream she is next to me in bed and everything is normal. When i wake and see the reality I'm in a terrifying place. Alone and lying there imagining her with another guy, financial hell and the shame of not being good enough. All my friends and family talking about us.
> 
> It seems so cruel that the dreams are doing this to me, I realise it's the years of conditioning. My deep mind knows only the daily routines. Why wouldn't she be there!
> 
> My mind is completely short circuited, I can't control it even with meditation. My logical mind knows I need to calm myself and start the 180 but I can't bring myself to start it!
> 
> I've purchased Sony VAR's but the project makes me sick to my stomach.
> 
> this is without a doubt the worst space i have ever been in. Pure hell, esp for a mind like mine that cannot ignore the elephant in the corner of the room!
> 
> Another long day
> 
> R



Hang in there...everyday changes, the hurt changes too. We all promise you how awful and hurtful all this is, and how horrible you feel, you aren't alone. It just feels it. 
You have people here that will help you, be here for you, as well as hopefully your family members. 

-sammy


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## richard_73

anchorwatch said:


> You had an expectation not to be betrayed and you were.
> 
> What makes you expect an explanation after that?
> 
> As far as rights; You have the right to self respect. You have the right to be with some one that respects you. You have a right not to be in this situation any longer than it takes your lawyer/solicitor to handle this divorce.
> 
> Do as the others have advised. Go on the offensive, and give her what she wants. File.


I need to be ready for our next meeting, I need to be firm but flexible. if I go in like I'm acting a role in a movie I just can't see it working!
All this advice has been absorbed. I Suppose I need to decide what I do with it now

R


----------



## richard_73

LongWalk said:


> Richard,
> 
> You cannot have successful R without getting an NC message from her to him. You must witness this. She cannot warn him that it is coming and to disregard it.
> 
> If your wife is not anxious to hysterically bond with you, that is a sign that she is saving her vagina for OM.
> 
> You will only become attractive to her if you are self confident.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


What is an NC message? 

If I don't get "full" disclosure this time I'm gonna flip but I have no leverage at all!

R


----------



## richard_73

sammy3 said:


> Hang in there...everyday changes, the hurt changes too. We all promise you how awful and hurtful all this is, and how horrible you feel, you aren't alone. It just feels it.
> You have people here that will help you, be here for you, as well as hopefully your family members.
> 
> -sammy


Thanks a lot Sammy. I can't tell family. It's out of the question, they are not in great health and I can't have them worried about me.
I have a close friend I can talk to which helps.
R


----------



## Emerald

anchorwatch said:


> You had an expectation not to be betrayed and you were.
> 
> What makes you expect an explanation after that?
> 
> As far as rights; You have the right to self respect. You have the right to be with some one that respects you. You have a right not to be in this situation any longer than it takes your lawyer/solicitor to handle this divorce.
> 
> Do as the others have advised. Go on the offensive, and give her what she wants. File.


:iagree:

You also have the right not to allow her to be mean & nasty to you. Let her spew to your hand. I agree she is in an affair fog & trying to make you seem like the "bad guy" & you are so hurt & afraid to stand up to her nastiness. She is rubbing salt into your wound & you wouldn't allow anyone else to treat you this way.


----------



## Fordsvt

Don't flip out or get mad. Do not ever beg, cry, implore or anything. It shows total weakness. 
Be calm, cool and collected with what you say. You need total disclosure as to who this ass-clown is. Do some digging and you will see it. 
He may dumped her who knows?? But find out. You have to know what your up against so you make the right choices here


----------



## richard_73

Fordsvt said:


> Don't flip out or get mad. Do not ever beg, cry, implore or anything. It shows total weakness.
> Be calm, cool and collected with what you say. You need total disclosure as to who this ass-clown is. Do some digging and you will see it.
> He may dumped her who knows?? But find out. You have to know what your up against so you make the right choices here


I have showed all the weakness there is. How could I not when I was so surprised.

I realise i need to sort my act out completely. I'm working on that now!

I'm almost at the stage I'm gonna grab her phone out of her hand if she wont give me the whole picture. To hell with surveillance. 

Your right, I can't move forward at all if I dont have the truth.

The not knowing is eating me alive.

R


----------



## richard_73

Emerald said:


> :iagree:
> 
> You also have the right not to allow her to be mean & nasty to you. Let her spew to your hand. I agree she is in an affair fog & trying to make you seem like the "bad guy" & you are so hurt & afraid to stand up to her nastiness. She is rubbing salt into your wound & you wouldn't allow anyone else to treat you this way.


Thanks.
I think you know how bad I feel and how hard it is to "act".
Time will tell I suppose.
R


----------



## honcho

You know enough proof to act, you just cant bring yourself to do it. Until she fears losing something she will never tell you the truth. She is treating you like crap today in the here and now. 

The truth today is she is treating you like garbage, she shows you no respect, she is unwilling to work on the marriage and she knows you will tolerate this behavior because “you need her”. She will not change and all the chats in the world right now will bring you to exactly where you are today, frustrated and seeking answers. 

Not until you change the only dynamic that you have power over, how much of this will you tolerate. Waiting for answers you wont get is an excuse right now. She must understand and believe she has something at risk, losing you before it will change


----------



## richard_73

Fordsvt said:


> Don't flip out or get mad. Do not ever beg, cry, implore or anything. It shows total weakness.
> Be calm, cool and collected with what you say. You need total disclosure as to who this ass-clown is. Do some digging and you will see it.
> He may dumped her who knows?? But find out. You have to know what your up against so you make the right choices here


had a night from hell. havent been out for days and tonight ranks as the worst night so far. a fully wretched affair, I'm glad I was alone, it wasn't a pretty sight. I'm anything but cool calm and collected so how the hell can I pull this off? Maybe i need a stunt double!


----------



## Fordsvt

You have to get some of the power back. Right now without it you have no leverage. You ll almost have to view her as the enemy. You also have to be prepared to lose the marriage before you can save it. Show her you mean business man. 

Do a hard 180. All of it. 
Get a real estate agent in and have the house appraised. 
See a lawyer. 
Don't talk or ask about the relationship. 
Become unpredictable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richard_73

honcho said:


> You know enough proof to act, you just cant bring yourself to do it. Until she fears losing something she will never tell you the truth. She is treating you like crap today in the here and now.
> 
> The truth today is she is treating you like garbage, she shows you no respect, she is unwilling to work on the marriage and she knows you will tolerate this behavior because “you need her”. She will not change and all the chats in the world right now will bring you to exactly where you are today, frustrated and seeking answers.
> 
> Not until you change the only dynamic that you have power over, how much of this will you tolerate. Waiting for answers you wont get is an excuse right now. She must understand and believe she has something at risk, losing you before it will change


the 180 seems like such a gamble. We need to talk surely!
But If i do a hard 180 there wont be any chat as I'm going to appear too busy rollerblading and uncaring about her.

R


----------



## richard_73

richard_73 said:


> the 180 seems like such a gamble but I need to listen to the overwhelming advice here!
> I better get my 180 head on quick
> Fingers crossed. Will report
> 
> R
> 
> 
> 
> R


----------



## honcho

You need to 180 at the moment because you are too emotionally invested right now. You cant have the discussions you want right now because she will just twist and manipulate you. 

Yes you do need to talk but you cant force her to talk and the more you push her the harder she will dig into her fantasyworld or lies. You have played this your way and you see exactly where it gotten you. You first need to see your approach will not work, it hasn’t been working and playing the war of attrition will get you nowhere.


----------



## 2ntnuf

richard_73 said:


> the 180 seems like such a gamble. We need to talk surely!
> But If i do a hard 180 there wont be any chat as I'm going to appear too busy rollerblading and uncaring about her.
> 
> R


Surely, she will leave you, continue to cheat, or cheat again if you do nothing to change the relationship dynamics.


----------



## sammy3

Richard, 

I'm 3 years out, and I did everything, I mean everything wrong when I first found out. I was a basket case, I couldn't deal with life for 22
months after the affair was uncovered. I'm still doing everything wrong. 

It is very, very true, you must be willing to lose the marriage in order to have a chance to win it back, because the reality is, the marriage you had, is lost anyway. 

I know all you want is for everything to go away, and be back to the way it was, but it never can be. I'm not in favor for D right away, but you must draw the line in the sand. There is no room for a 3rd person in a marriage. 

-sammy


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By Richard*
> Can't get out of bed, Cant sleep, don't want to eat, i've acted like a doormat.
> All this because she felt directionless and bored!
> 
> Also right about her claiming its all my fault. The character assassination has been malevolent and untruthful.
> 
> My mind is completely short circuited, I can't control it even with meditation. My logical mind knows I need to calm myself and start the 180 but I can't bring myself to start it!




Richard
You have to get some help so that you can start rebuilding your life
STOP with the obsession with how you have been destroyed. You are not destroyed but you need to focus on you FIRST. That means that you take the steps that will lead you to getting better. That will take determination and discipline on your part. 


*GET HELP so that you can get support and a list of steps for you to take so that you can get better.* Your emotions are in complete control of you and they are not to be relied upon right now.


You have put most of your life and emotions in your wife (too much co-dependency) and that has to change so that you are more self sufficient. That is the reality and you need to not shy away from that reality and take action. If you do not you will become a permanent door mat.


I know that it is very hard to not waddle in your pain but you are at a point that you have to act in order to save your emotional life. Another fact is that you getting better is the best attraction to get your wife back. If she will not be drawn to her husband that is improving then she was one a long time ago.

*Get yourself strong enough so that you can live with her or without her. Either way with you stronger your life will be good. Millions have done it and so can you*


----------



## LongWalk

NC = no contact

Typically, the cheater writes a text, such as:

Dear X,

Our affair was wrong. I am concentrating on my marriage. Please do not contact me further. Kindly delete my telephone number and email from your contacts.

Y

If the cheater, writes stuff like, "I'll always remember you fondly" or "Pet your beautiful dog for me." You cross it out. The message has to be sent so that you see her send it, without first warning him that a false NC message is on its way.

If she tells him that her husband has found out so an NC letter that he should ignore is coming, then the affair can go underground.


----------



## richard_73

Mr Blunt said:


> Richard
> You have to get some help so that you can start rebuilding your life
> STOP with the obsession with how you have been destroyed. You are not destroyed but you need to focus on you FIRST. That means that you take the steps that will lead you to getting better. That will take determination and discipline on your part.
> 
> 
> *GET HELP so that you can get support and a list of steps for you to take so that you can get better.* Your emotions are in complete control of you and they are not to be relied upon right now.
> 
> 
> You have put most of your life and emotions in your wife (too much co-dependency) and that has to change so that you are more self sufficient. That is the reality and you need to not shy away from that reality and take action. If you do not you will become a permanent door mat.
> 
> 
> I know that it is very hard to not waddle in your pain but you are at a point that you have to act in order to save your emotional life. Another fact is that you getting better is the best attraction to get your wife back. If she will not be drawn to her husband that is improving then she was one a long time ago.
> 
> *Get yourself strong enough so that you can live with her or without her. Either way with you stronger your life will be good. Millions have done it and so can you*


Thanks Blunt. What kind of help are you refering to? Would that be a marriage specialist or a psychologist?
I agree with you completely. Last night I realised if I don't get this under control soon I risk long term basket case syndrome.

I'm not doing well on my own so its time to admit i need some help.

Ok, today is the day I start getting it together. I'm going to get v busy and concentrate on myself as best I can.

R


----------



## richard_73

honcho said:


> You need to 180 at the moment because you are too emotionally invested right now. You cant have the discussions you want right now because she will just twist and manipulate you.
> 
> Yes you do need to talk but you cant force her to talk and the more you push her the harder she will dig into her fantasyworld or lies. You have played this your way and you see exactly where it gotten you. You first need to see your approach will not work, it hasn’t been working and playing the war of attrition will get you nowhere.


your right there Honcho.
As soon as she comes in the room any game plan or strategy I have goes to hell.
This is the hardest thing I've ever done. HAd no idea this world existed, what a horrible place. TAB forum is like an emotional black hole in the middle of the WWW. Thankfully there are good people here with good advice.
R


----------



## Alpha

So what is it you really want Richard? Do you want to save your marriage? Find out who she's banging and then put a plan into action?


----------



## richard_73

Alpha said:


> So what is it you really want Richard? Do you want to save your marriage? Find out who she's banging and then put a plan into action?


Hey alpha,
I want to save my marriage at all costs.
She claims there has been nothing physical, i believe her 90%.
I know many will say I'm crazy.

This is my plan:

1. Start the 180 as powerfully as I can today

2. We have a discussion coming up. I aim tol be calm and unemotional but straight talking. She must tell me the truth OR she needs to leave and everyone needs to know she cheated.

What do you think? 

R


----------



## Chaparral

richard_73 said:


> Hey alpha,
> I want to save my marriage at all costs.
> She claims there has been nothing physical, i believe her 90%.
> I know many will say I'm crazy.
> 
> This is my plan:
> 
> 1. Start the 180 as powerfully as I can today
> 
> 2. We have a discussion coming up. I aim tol be calm and unemotional but straight talking. She must tell me the truth OR she needs to leave and everyone needs to know she cheated.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> R



If you follow through that will help. In three years though, you are the first person that has not been able to follow any of the tried and true advice that has been used over and over to save a marriage or move on if it cant be saved. It may seem wrong but you accomplish both in the same way.

I haven't seen it mentioned but when a wife has an affair there is only a 15% chance the couple will reconcile. Either she is to fa gone or you will realize what she has done has made her untouchable by you.

Everything you are doing now makes you look weak, needy and totally unattractive to any woman, especially you wife.

Expect nothing from a talk with a cheater, she is going to blame you for everything and tell you what a dog you are.

Cheaters follow a script just like in the movies. If you read the stories in the CWI section, its the same story over and over with a few detail changes.

If you beg, plead or cry, it will just disgust her. Your love means nothing at this point, she is in lust with another man.

If you really want to get her attention, ask her why she hasn't left yet and you will help her pack. You should have already taken half the money out of any accts and opened new ones where she cant drain you. Stop all credit cards. Etc.

If you cant man up, all is lost.


----------



## Alpha

I feel for you Rich, been there and it sucks. Heed the words of Chaparral as it's your best course of action.


----------



## Cubby

Unless I'm missing something, Richard still knows very little. A lot of talk about the 180 here, but I'm thinking Richard needs to get busy and find out who the other guy is, and what exactly his wife is doing with him, how often, if he's married, etc, and then proceeding from there. Investigation should be conducted quietly. And I'm really sorry to say that Richard's assessment that there's a 90% they're not fooking just isn't very realistic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richard_73

Cubby said:


> Unless I'm missing something, Richard still knows very little. A lot of talk about the 180 here, but I'm thinking Richard needs to get busy and find out who the other guy is, and what exactly his wife is doing with him, how often, if he's married, etc, and then proceeding from there. Investigation should be conducted quietly. And I'm really sorry to say that Richard's assessment that there's a 90% they're not fooking just isn't very realistic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this is the crux..
I don't know enough yet!

I fully get it that I need to be tougher and straight to the point and business like. No more emotional reactions. I can do that.

But I still need to get to the truth before the next phase can kick off.

R


----------



## Chaparral

richard_73 said:


> this is the crux..
> I don't know enough yet!
> 
> I fully get it that I need to be tougher and straight to the point and business like. No more emotional reactions. I can do that.
> 
> But I still need to get to the truth before the next phase can kick off.
> 
> R


You will not get any information from your wife you can trust. Any thing she says must be verified. Cheaters simply will not say anything that makes them look like a cheater.

Follow the advice to get the information you need. You can pretty much believe the opposite of what ever she tells you.

Read up on the threads, especially the long ones, in the Coping With Infidelity section. They all follow the script. Your wife sounds long gone with no remorse at all for what she is doing and lying about.

Look at your phone bills, find the number of her affair partner and look it up on spokeo.com, google etc.

Its likely someone you know.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Thanks Blunt. What kind of help are you refering to? Would that be a marriage specialist or a psychologist?




*The kind of help that I am referring to is help that will bring you to the realization that you will make it with her or without her*. I am not talking about all the hurt going completely away because that is not going to happen. I am talking about you becoming more secure and confident.


Too much of your self worth and whole life was put into her treatment of you. *YOU ARE A VALUABLE AND WORTHY PERSON with her or without her! You need to know that and believe that.*

YES good professionals can help you but do you have family? Some people have a mother and a father that can be real help with you knowing that you are valuable, worthy, and will have a good life in the future. Your wife is NOT your whole life! You may get back together with your wife but you need to be stronger so that you never get as devastated as you are now.


*Do you have a spiritual life and belief in a greater power?* There are things in a relationships that mankind cannot address and only can be addressed by God.


Get all the help (yourself, family, spiritual, professional counselors, etc) that you can that will help you become more self sufficient. If your wife is going to be attracted to you she will have to see a man that respects himself and is self sufficient and strong.



*You need more help than you are getting on this forum so force yourself to fight past your pain and GET HELP NOW!*


----------



## richard_73

Chaparral said:


> You will not get any information from your wife you can trust. Any thing she says must be verified. Cheaters simply will not say anything that makes them look like a cheater.
> 
> Follow the advice to get the information you need. You can pretty much believe the opposite of what ever she tells you.
> 
> Read up on the threads, especially the long ones, in the Coping With Infidelity section. They all follow the script. Your wife sounds long gone with no remorse at all for what she is doing and lying about.
> 
> Look at your phone bills, find the number of her affair partner and look it up on spokeo.com, google etc.
> 
> Its likely someone you know.


I need some urgent advice!

I have her phone records for last three months and I have a suspect! Name, phone number, even got his picture.

I'm sitting here losing my mind. 

I have everything but a smoking gun! Not 100% but the number of messages and dates look 100%.up to 27 txt a day and the times correspond perfectly! I feel sick as F***. this guy is a total loser!

How should I play it ? 

R


----------



## jack.c

richard_73 said:


> I need some urgent advice!
> 
> I have her phone records for last three months and I have a suspect! Name, phone number, even got his picture.
> 
> I'm sitting here losing my mind.
> 
> I have everything but a smoking gun! Not 100% but the number of messages and dates look 100%.up to 27 txt a day and the times correspond perfectly! I feel sick as F***. this guy is a total loser!
> 
> How should I play it ?
> 
> R



save all you have and DONT tell her nothing,, this info is gold for you and for now you NEED TO KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.


----------



## anchorwatch

Call a couple of lawyers in the morning. Pick one and file. That sends the message you won't be trifled with and you've have had enough lies and deception.


----------



## jack.c

richard_73 said:


> I need some urgent advice!
> 
> I have her phone records for last three months and I have a suspect! Name, phone number, even got his picture.
> 
> I'm sitting here losing my mind.
> 
> I have everything but a smoking gun! Not 100% but the number of messages and dates look 100%.up to 27 txt a day and the times correspond perfectly! I feel sick as F***. this guy is a total loser!
> 
> How should I play it ?
> 
> R


 also gather all the info you can on OM, see if he is married, or has a GF where he lives, etc. and get ready to expose him but not now.... get all info you can and play dark


----------



## richard_73

jack.c said:


> save all you have and DONT tell her nothing,, this info is gold for you and for now you NEED TO KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.


but its still not proof is it?

I feel quite charged up ( understatement )

Wish I had him in the cage right now with complete impunity!

R


----------



## ReidWright

richard_73 said:


> but its still not proof is it?
> 
> 
> 
> R


up to 27 texts a day to a guy that she keeps secret, in your situation, is pretty solid proof


----------



## richard_73

ReidWright said:


> up to 27 texts a day to a guy that she keeps secret, in your situation, is pretty solid proof


yes and the times fit perfect.

I feel so angry and sick. This piece of **** ruined my marriage!

R


----------



## 2ntnuf

Physical exercise at the gym, working hard outdoors, exercising at home, etc., will help you get the anger out for a short time and give you a little confidence. 

Someone here, I can't find it, told you to get a separate checking account. Cancel or take her name off of credit cards you both are on. Separate all of that kind of financial stuff. If you are on any bill with her, get your name on it only or get off of it completely. 

See, at minimum, a psychologist with a master's degree who works or has worked with married couples. He/she will have a perspective others will not. 

Start looking into things you can do for fun, away from home. I am not recommending going out drinking. Stay far away from alcohol at this time. Go fishing, to a ball game, walk in the woods with a camera and take pictures. Join an archery club.


----------



## richard_73

jack.c said:


> save all you have and DONT tell her nothing,, this info is gold for you and for now you NEED TO KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.


I want to confront her asap! Why am I saving it for?

R


----------



## tom67

Find out if the pos is married or has a girlfriend.
Then expose to them.


----------



## Chaparral

richard_73 said:


> I want to confront her asap! Why am I saving it for?
> 
> R


and do you know this guy or how they met?


----------



## richard_73

Chaparral said:


> and do you know this guy or how they met?


I know who he is and how they met!
Feel like Im gonna puke


----------



## Tobyboy

Do not confront until you have more info on the OM!!!!
Is he married? Girlfriend?

Do they work together?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Alpha

You know we're all going to want to know who this other guy is and how they met.


----------



## richard_73

Alpha said:


> You know we're all going to want to know who this other guy is and how they met.



Right now I feel so damn angry.

Now a lot of things make sense and I can see that the level of deceit is way beyond what I imagined!

Makes it 10 times worse as it's almost as if she has conspired to torture my mind.

I realise that this isn't true. its the FOG! A textbook example of the fog. Absolute textbook.

She did and said anything she could to try and get rid of me for him. 

Lied to my face so many times.

Rewrote our married history. 

Is she evil or is it the Fog?

I wonder if she will regret this! 

A broken Richard


----------



## just got it 55

richard_73 said:


> Thanks. I realise that's the theory with the 180 but my mind is having none of it.
> I simply can't pretend i'm out having fun as I'm sure she will see that as "he's finally moving on, I'm gone"
> 
> Excuse my repetition, living the day hour by hour.
> *Absolutely cannot lose her.*
> R


richard here is your main problem

55


----------



## just got it 55

richard_73 said:


> What is an NC message?
> 
> If I don't get "full" disclosure this time I'm gonna flip but *I have no leverage at all!*
> R




Here's another one of your problems

55


----------



## just got it 55

richard_73 said:


> Thanks a lot Sammy. I can't tell family. It's out of the question, they are not in great health and I can't have them worried about me.
> I have a close friend I can talk to which helps.
> R


You need to re think this R

55


----------



## just got it 55

richard_73 said:


> the 180 seems like such a gamble. We need to talk surely!
> But If i do a hard 180 there wont be any chat as I'm going to appear too busy rollerblading and uncaring about her.
> 
> R


Richard I know it seems counterintuitive but……If the Captain of the Titanic actually increased the speed of the ship…….They would have avoided the God Damned Iceberg.

55


----------



## richard_73

just got it 55 said:


> You need to re think this R
> 
> 55


I so don't want to tell them! they will be sick for me.
I don't want their pity and i don't want them worrying.

Moving onto an anger/revenge phase now!

It's a nice change! 

R


----------



## just got it 55

richard_73 said:


> Hey alpha,
> I want to save my marriage at all costs.
> She claims there has been nothing physical, i believe her 90%.
> I know many will say I'm crazy.
> 
> This is my plan:
> 
> 1. Start the 180 as powerfully as I can today
> 
> 2. We have a discussion coming up. I aim tol be calm and unemotional but straight talking. She must tell me the truth OR she needs to leave and everyone needs to know she cheated.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> R


:iagree:

I'm hip to that

55


----------



## Chaparral

Who is the om and is he married? This is the most important thing you can find out. If he's married, you have to find out how to contact her.

Its odd the way you are answering.


----------



## just got it 55

richard_73 said:


> I need some urgent advice!
> 
> I have her phone records for last three months and I have a suspect! Name, phone number, even got his picture.
> 
> I'm sitting here losing my mind.
> 
> I have everything but a smoking gun! Not 100% but the number of messages and dates look 100%.up to 27 txt a day and the times correspond perfectly! I feel sick as F***. this guy is a total loser!
> 
> How should I play it ?
> 
> R


richard 73

How do you ordinarily handle someone that disrespects and betrays you? Crosses all of your personal boundaries , lies to you,
and has outright wronged you?

Do you be nice?

Do you panic?

Do you turn tail? 

Rise up from this and be the man you parents raised you to be. I am sure in every other situation you would.

This is no fvcking different.

55


----------



## richard_73

Chaparral said:


> Who is the om and is he married? This is the most important thing you can find out. If he's married, you have to find out how to contact her.
> 
> Its odd the way you are answering.


I feel kind of odd, I just found out who my wife dumped me for!

He's not M.

R


----------



## richard_73

just got it 55 said:


> richard 73
> 
> How do you ordinarily handle someone that disrespects and betrays you? Crosses all of your personal , lies to you,
> boundaries and has outright wronged you?
> 
> Do you be nice?
> 
> Do you panic?
> 
> Do you turn tail?
> 
> Rise up from this and be the man you parents raised you to be. I am sure in every other situation you would.
> 
> This is no fvcking different.
> 
> 55


No need to school me any more. The tide has turned.

What a lesson to learn! It has burned deep. 

Thanks everybody for getting me here. Your advise and support has really helped.

Still got a long way to go but I feel seriously focused now.

R


----------



## Chaparral

richard_73 said:


> I feel kind of odd, I just found out who my wife dumped me for!
> 
> He's not M.
> 
> R


Then find his relatives and tell them what a scum sucking ba$tard he is.

Do you have kids?


----------



## richard_73

Chaparral said:


> Then find his relatives and tell them what a scum sucking ba$tard he is.
> 
> Do you have kids?


Good idea! But would they care!

I must have some sort of revenge. He knew she was married from day 1

No kids

Richard version II


----------



## Fordsvt

I think this thread is odd
The answers are very odd too. It's getting worse daily. 
You sure this is real Richard?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richard_73

Fordsvt said:


> I think this thread is odd
> The answers are very odd too. It's getting worse daily.
> You sure this is real Richard?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


explain your concerns? Yes I'm quite sure i am me! :scratchhead:


----------



## just got it 55

richard_73 said:


> no need to school me any more. The tide has turned.
> 
> What a lesson to learn! It has burned deep.
> 
> Thanks everybody for getting me here. Your advise and support has really helped.
> 
> Still got a long way to go but i feel seriously focused now.
> 
> R


ok

actions

55


----------



## just got it 55

richard..73

Have the Mods move this thread to CWI

55


----------



## honcho

You first need to get yourself right emotionally which you obviously aren’t which is what we keep telling you. Second now that you found out who the OM may be you have to finally come to the hard realization that he didn’t force your wife into ANYTHING. She chose this, he may have played a game, she didn’t say no. 

You haven’t moved into any stage yet, you are numb and your brain is racing all over the planet. You knew this all along in the back of your head, you finally have some proof of what you knew and everyone told you. I do hope you will finally listen.

The OM is not your problem, your sole problem lives in your house.


----------



## richard_73

honcho said:


> You first need to get yourself right emotionally which you obviously aren’t which is what we keep telling you. Second now that you found out who the OM may be you have to finally come to the hard realization that he didn’t force your wife into ANYTHING. She chose this, he may have played a game, she didn’t say no.
> 
> You haven’t moved into any stage yet, you are numb and your brain is racing all over the planet. You knew this all along in the back of your head, you finally have some proof of what you knew and everyone told you. I do hope you will finally listen.
> 
> The OM is not your problem, your sole problem lives in your house.


I have always listened! Just wasn't ready to accept. There's a big difference! Things have changed a lot now I have the facts.

The OM is far from innocent in this one.

R


----------



## honcho

I never said he was innocent, but exactly how did he force your wife to chose to cheat on you? Exactly what magic spell did he cast to change her completely? Does she not understand what the word NO means and how to use that word towards his advances on her? 

He is far from innocent and he is a POS and each and every one of us wished to get some measure of revenge but today he isnt your problem. If you go after him now you will make him a martyr in her eyes.


----------



## farsidejunky

Bro. The OM is not the sole perpetrator. Your wife had to choose to accept him. Or perhaps even approached him. Either way it does not matter. Do not even begin to ALLOW your mind to consider your spouse some innocent victim. The OM could have slept with anyone but your wife and it would not have mattered one bit. She chose to allow him. Keep your focus, man...


----------



## Fordsvt

Ok Richard73. I apologize. 
Be sure to stay focused and decisive. Don't let your guard down at all. Be smart and don't let her make it out like she's the victim. Many WW spouses try that BS. It's all on her and she knows it. 
How is the 180 coming. ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richard_73

honcho said:


> I never said he was innocent, but exactly how did he force your wife to chose to cheat on you? Exactly what magic spell did he cast to change her completely? Does she not understand what the word NO means and how to use that word towards his advances on her?
> 
> He is far from innocent and he is a POS and each and every one of us wished to get some measure of revenge but today he isnt your problem. If you go after him now you will make him a martyr in her eyes.


I know that! I'm going after nobody! It's pointless.
She is fully responsible for everything I have been through.

There was no need at all to string me along. It was malicious.

i don't think she has any conscience so she will go unpunished.

R


----------



## Chaparral

Have you told her family she is cheating ?

Since you don't have any kids, you should put her stuff in garbage bags and drop it all off at her moms.

What is she saying now? Does she want a divorce?


----------



## richard_73

Chaparral said:


> Have you told her family she is cheating ?
> 
> Since you don't have any kids, you should put her stuff in garbage bags and drop it all off at her moms.
> 
> What is she saying now? Does she want a divorce?


No I haven't done that!
Waiting to see what her next move is in about 10 minutes when she gets in from work!

Rich


----------



## farsidejunky

Bro. Lead! You set the tone. If you constantly wait on her next move, you will always be reacting and one step behind. Make a plan and execute. Make her adjust to you.


----------



## Fordsvt

farsidejunky said:


> Bro. Lead! You set the tone. If you constantly wait on her next move, you will always be reacting and one step behind. Make a plan and execute. Make her adjust to you.


Exactly. Be unpredictable. Keep her guessing. You have to set the pace here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richard_73

Fordsvt said:


> Exactly. Be unpredictable. Keep her guessing. You have to set the pace here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ok. 

She has been fully exposed but continues the affair even although we're still married.

Acts like she hates me and is angry as I am getting in the way.

Friends are now becoming aware of the situation and can't believe her actions. 

yet her deceit continues, playing with the truth, acting in front of friends, just plain crazy!

Actually acting like nothing is happening to friends.

I have toughened up significantly you will be happy to hear, BUT

i still want reconciliation although she hates me and wants out.

The OM is an absolute car crash! Really!


R


----------



## farsidejunky

There is no logic in this process for her. She will continue to place him on a pedestal while she rewrites your marriage history. It may reach a point where reconciliation is not an option, because it takes two for a successful reconciliation.


----------



## richard_73

farsidejunky said:


> There is no logic in this process for her. She will continue to place him on a pedestal while she rewrites your marriage history. It may reach a point where reconciliation is not an option, because it takes two for a successful reconciliation.


yes. I totally realise that now.
It's scary.

All her values are completely gone.

Surely inside her mind must be screaming "oh my god I am completely insane. WTF am I doing"

You can't tell me that there won't be moments of clarity in there?

Some people don't believe in the fog.

I realise the neurotransmitters of limerence or the seduction and thrill of a new affair are partly responsible but there is also a conscious mind in there capable of separating fantasy from reality!

R


----------



## richard_73

Chaparral said:


> Have you told her family she is cheating ?
> 
> Since you don't have any kids, you should put her stuff in garbage bags and drop it all off at her moms.
> 
> What is she saying now? Does she want a divorce?


think I should tell her family?
Cant decide if that's right or not.

wonder if it could it help shift the fog or make it stronger?

R


----------



## honcho

And your best bet would be to let the car crash happen and get yourself out of the way. Force fantasy world to become real world with real world decisions and watch the wreck happen.


----------



## richard_73

Chaparral said:


> Have you told her family she is cheating ?
> 
> 
> 
> What is she saying now? Does she want a divorce?


Sorry. not sure yet! That bus should be along any minute.

R


----------



## tom67

Yes let her family know the real story because she will make you out to be a wife beater or whatever.
Just stick to the facts you can do this.


----------



## farsidejunky

Expose to everyone bro. If "R" is your aim, then nothing will lift the fog like exposure. It will be uncomfortable. She will probably call you every name in the book. But if there's any hope of reconciliation you must expose to everyone and blow the affair up.


----------



## richard_73

farsidejunky said:


> Expose to everyone bro. If "R" is your aim, then nothing will lift the fog like exposure. It will be uncomfortable. She will probably call you every name in the book. But if there's any hope of reconciliation you must expose to everyone and blow the affair up.


Thanks for your advice. It makes complete sense!
I have nothing left to lose

I've been to the bottom now and I'm on my way back up.

I want Reconcilliation and will give it my best shot BUT if it doesn't happen good luck to her because when the door closes she will be locked out.

R


----------



## tom67

richard_73 said:


> Thanks for your advice. It makes complete sense!
> I have nothing left to lose
> 
> I've been to the bottom now and I'm on my way back up.
> 
> I want Reconcilliation and will give it my best shot BUT if it doesn't happen good luck to her because when the door closes she will be locked out.
> 
> R


That's all you can do right now.
It will get better with or without her.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

First step to kill an affair is exposure. Tell your family, her family, friends, etc. EVERYONE!

If she continues the affair after exposure, then hit her with D papers. Have her served at work. Go for full custody of your kids. Tell her she needs to pack up and leave. Stop paying her bills. Separate your finances. Hit her hard with reality. 

It's time to face the hard truth that your M is over. Welcome to the club, fella. We've all been there.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Richard,

You don't have kids?

File for D immediately. Trust me, your life will only improve once you eliminate her from your life.


----------



## tom67

Listen to the @ss
He is a wise one.


----------



## richard_73

ThreeStrikes said:


> Richard,
> 
> You don't have kids?
> 
> File for D immediately. Trust me, your life will only improve once you eliminate her from your life.


No I don't.

Too early for D just yet. Everyone gets a pass if they have earned it in the past. One pass only!

hers hasn't expired "yet"!

R


----------



## ThreeStrikes

tom67 said:


> Listen to the @ss
> He is a wise one.


Some people need to learn the hard way. Based on what I've seen from Richard, he's one of them.

But that's fine...it's his journey.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

richard_73 said:


> No I don't.
> 
> Too early for D just yet. Everyone gets a pass if they have earned it in the past. One pass only!
> 
> hers hasn't expired "yet"!
> 
> R


File for D. It takes a long time. You can always call it off if she wants to R. Filing can be the 'shock' it takes to wake her up.


----------



## farsidejunky

If you're going to do this right, you need to be absolutely prepared to lose her. You will see it on this board over and over again. You must be prepared to lose the marriage in order to save the marriage. If not, she will smell in a mile away. In your mind you must accept the fact that divorce is a very likely outcome with a small chance of reconciliation. Don't fool yourself into thinking that this is a sure path reconciliation. It is however the only possibility of reconciliation no matter how small a chance it actually may be.


----------



## richard_73

farsidejunky said:


> If you're going to do this right, you need to be absolutely prepared to lose her. You will see it on this board over and over again. You must be prepared to lose the marriage in order to save the marriage. If not, she will smell in a mile away. In your mind you must accept the fact that divorce is a very likely outcome with a small chance of reconciliation. Don't fool yourself into thinking that this is a sure path reconciliation. It is however the only possibility of reconciliation no matter how small a chance it actually may be.


I hear you loud and clear.


R


----------



## 3putt

Richard, you need to read just the first page of this thread and follow it to the letter. Don't take any shortcuts. Do it by the book.

Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums


----------



## richard_73

3putt said:


> Richard, you need to read just the first page of this thread and follow it to the letter. Don't take any shortcuts. Do it by the book.
> 
> Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums


too late.
she has officially come out and is exposing the affair herself to everyone while still married and still having the affair to some little rat!

Actually starting to feel sorry for her. She has f*****d her life up. Seems hypnotised.

I'm moving on and observing with interest from a safe distance.
She may come unstuck after the fog lifts but I can't wait around.

Very sad but I have become titanium recently!

R


----------



## honcho

“Too early for D just yet. Everyone gets a pass if they have earned it in the past. One pass only!”

This is exactly why she will fall deeper into her affair world. She has her free pass, might as well make it worthwhile. Im not saying for a minute you cant reconcile she feels she has no risk right now, no matter what you will take her back. 

The pass got used up the day she didn’t tell you the truth.


----------



## TheBaxter

Take the initiative and file for divorce. Son, you have to stop letting her control the game.


----------



## Fordsvt

She's not ready for R yet. Her world has not crashed down around her yet. 
She still has too much control. You need to get some power back here. It's your only hope. File for D to lift her from the fog. 
She is not rational yet at all. You have not hit bottom yet. Trust me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf

No pass. She has to prove she deserves that socalled pass.

ETA: Richard, this sounds like harsh treatment, but it's because you love her. She doesn't care about that love, if she is cheating. She cares only about her. You have to make her turn and look back at you before she is gone, if you want to have even a ghost of a chance. Do what they are telling you. They know what they are doing. Filing for divorce will scare the heck out of her, or she will just agree. Either way, you will have your answer, if she really wants to come back or leave. You can always cancel it. 

No children? Is it worth all of this, Richard? I'm certain you think it is. That's a tough one now.


----------



## richard_73

Fordsvt said:


> She's not ready for R yet. Her world has not crashed down around her yet.
> She still has too much control. You need to get some power back here. It's your only hope. File for D to lift her from the fog.
> She is not rational yet at all. You have not hit bottom yet. Trust me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I truly fear what you are saying but I cant go any lower than I did last month!
I'm away rollerblading:scratchhead:

R


----------



## richard_73

2ntnuf said:


> No pass. She has to prove she deserves that socalled pass.
> 
> ETA: Richard, this sounds like harsh treatment, but it's because you love her. She doesn't care about that love, if she is cheating. She cares only about her. You have to make her turn and look back at you before she is gone, if you want to have even a ghost of a chance. Do what they are telling you. They know what they are doing. Filing for divorce will scare the heck out of her, or she will just agree. Either way, you will have your answer, if she really wants to come back or leave. You can always cancel it.
> 
> No children? Is it worth all of this, Richard? I'm certain you think it is. That's a tough one now.


This is horrendous alright. 

She has made her decision. Separation, no lawyers. Not going to get into that on here, we have our reasons.

Its horrible and the pain of the infidelity is like an open wound.

But all these plays are just games. desperate measures with slim to none chances.

I know you all have good experience but I'm kind of lost to the real effectiveness of these plays.

I should hate her more BUT what good is that doing. 

I've run out of hatred, it was starting to mess me up.

I almost had a complete breakdown a month ago. Now I'm emotionally fried, tired and just not sure I have the energy for more games. Been feeling a bit stronger but as mentioned above somewhere I may not be rock bottom yet.

I feel exactly the same about her.

This is going to be a long bumpy ride for me. I think it's going to be bumpy for her too but she persists.

R


----------



## richard_73

Fordsvt said:


> She's not ready for R yet. Her world has not crashed down around her yet.
> She still has too much control. You need to get some power back here. It's your only hope. File for D to lift her from the fog.
> She is not rational yet at all. You have not hit bottom yet. Trust me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I fully agree. she is fully in the grip of love.
Will simply have to get on with my own life now. 

R


----------



## TheBaxter

Fine, let her separate. You get a lawyer and divorce. What are you going to do? Let her use your money and credit to fund her wh-ring?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf

richard_73 said:


> This is horrendous alright.
> 
> She has made her decision. Separation, no lawyers. Not going to get into that on here, we have our reasons.
> 
> Separation and no lawyers. If you basically did nothing wrong, well, nothing major, because we all do something wrong, then she is trying out the single life. That's my guess. I could be wrong, since you don't go into much detail.
> 
> Its horrible and the pain of the infidelity is like an open wound.
> 
> It will be painful for a while, no matter what happens.
> 
> But all these plays are just games. desperate measures with slim to none chances.
> 
> They actually have a better chance than anything, if you want to keep your dignity. There is also a book by Michelle Weiner Davis, that's pretty good. You may want to check her out on the web.
> 
> I know you all have good experience but I'm kind of lost to the real effectiveness of these plays.
> 
> Look up some things on the internet. You'll see there isn't much chance once she is gone.
> 
> I should hate her more BUT what good is that doing.
> 
> Why should you hate her? I can see being angry and upset, but hatred may be too strong. Depends on your situation.
> 
> I've run out of hatred, it was starting to mess me up.
> 
> That's fine.
> 
> I almost had a complete breakdown a month ago. Now I'm emotionally fried, tired and just not sure I have the energy for more games. Been feeling a bit stronger but as mentioned above somewhere I may not be rock bottom yet.
> 
> In the end, you have to do what you think is best.
> 
> I feel exactly the same about her.
> 
> Well, yeah, you love her. Does she love you? It has to go both ways.
> 
> This is going to be a long bumpy ride for me. I think it's going to be bumpy for her too but she persists.
> 
> R


Well, these guys are trying to help you to shorten the ride and find out what she wants to do and start working on that.


----------



## LongWalk

What is the financial situation?


----------



## Chaparral

Separation is a bad idea. What is he point? She wants to keep you hanging on while she test drives other lover/lovers?

Where is she moving to? She is moving out, right? Tell her you are done and will not consider staying married to woman banging other men. Your weakness and needyness is driving her away. Women want strong men that stand up for themselves and their families. This is why she is going to someone she considers to be a better man.

You haven't read the mmslp book linked to below have you? Your weakness disgusts her.


----------



## Vill H

@Richard_73
Your story pains me so much that I joined this site just to respond to your post. I noticed you have been married for awhile and as life goes on you and your wife will evolve individually as well as a couple. You both have a duty to express your individual and couple needs to each other. What your wife is doing is very selfish on her part. As your wife started changing internally, she kept her feelings to herself and did not share with you about these changes that were occurring within her. As her husband, she had a duty to communicate this to you; and whatever you do, do not take responsibility for her actions! You may hear comments from people who might say to you that you must have seen something, because thing just don’t happen --- ignore these comments, please! Comments like this does nothing but make you question and blame yourself for your wife’s and OM’s actions. Remember, you can’t change a problem that you don’t know exists; and I’m sure when you noticed certain things that were a little off with her and brought it to her attention, she just lied and deceived you. This was easy for her to do, because the lies she told were basically plausible and you believed her over your instinct, because you loved and trusted her (based on her past actions and your past history with her). Only people who have been in your shoes will truly relate to the emotional, physical and mental pain you’re going through as a result of your wife’s lies, deceit, and abandonment and even then no two of us can feel exactly the other’s pain. 

As I was going through my life-changing event, I was told over and over to concentrate on me and not on my spouse and my marital situation, but that is a statement easier said than done; and now I am saying these same words to you, because in the end you will find out that she has already left you for her OM. I don’t know your total situation, but I don’t want to see you waste your precious love and life over someone who could care less about you anymore --- harsh, but true! I felt your pain in your words and statement: “wife like a different person almost overnight”. That tells me, from your perception that you believed you were a good husband and in a good marriage and unaware that your wife was no longer feeling this way. Her present actions are shouting at you. Please keep your mind open to other possibilities about your wife --- she is no longer the woman you believe her to be. You loved her and up until now she has been this wonderful wife and you can’t wrap your mind around what is going on? How did this happen out of nowhere? In reality, this happened overnight for you, but not for her [please looks up “Exit Affairs”]. She has been simmering this in her mind for a while and now that she’s ready to make her move, she expect you to just move on, leave her alone, and except her unilateral decision --- very, very unrealistic!!! The problem is that your perception of your wife has not changed. She is still that special woman that you love, adored, and married; and since she is so special in your eyes you can’t wrap your mind around what she is doing. You feel something is temporarily going on with her so you’re sticking in there for the long haul (something that should normally be expected from both of you). Unfortunately, your wife no longer sees you as special. She has wrongfully displaced and projected her love for you to another man. And trust if she hasn’t already done so, she will soon be blaming you for everything to justify her adultery. She will make it appear as though she is the victim and has been miserable for quite some time and that she was trying to work things through, but couldn’t take it anymore and had to leave for her “happiness”.

The hardest thing for you to do now is to except your new reality. Since you could not read her mind you were deprived the opportunity to make adjustments for your marriage as a couple. So you cannot own your part to the demise of your marriage since you don’t know what was going on with her internally. She is not respecting you, herself, or your marriage. Your wife has a poor moral compass, which is now being revealed. She established a relationship with another man, when she knew this was wrong, because she’s married! She never told you she had unmet needs that were not being met --- deceitful. Even if your wife is going through a mid-life crisis, it does not justify her adulterous actions! Sadly, adultery has become so prevalent in our society. Even if you are separated, you are not free to date other people. It is a time to reflect on your marriage and work things through. 

For the past 3 ½ years I have been going through exactly what you are going through now. I was with my spouse for 21 years and I thought I had a great marriage (married 15 yrs + engaged 6 yrs). We got along wonderfully. We had open communication between us (so I thought), respected each other, plenty of physical and non-physical intimacy --- so what happened? I really don’t know to this day and have been racking my brain (with the luxury of hindsight) to figure it out. I just know I was abandoned for no reason and now my spouse no longer interacts with our son. I, also, know that there were two adulterous partners (my spouse already remarried the 2nd adulterous partner) and now blames me for the demised of our marriage --- so get ready for your spouse to re-write history.

DON’T FORGET: Committing adultery is a decision not an accident --- it doesn’t “just happen”! Your wife is still making choices!

Note: You need your partner’s willingness to marry them, but your spouse doesn’t need your willingness to divorce you? There is something definitely wrong with the new divorce laws!

Personally, I don’t believe in divorce and like you was very will to work on our marriage, but to my regret, my spouse finally filed for the divorce. I’m not condoning you to file, but I do want you to mentally prepare yourself to protect your mind, heart, and assets, before you endure more damage then you already have.


----------



## Alpha

What a post Vill H. 

It's so eerie how the script is the same. It could have been me writing that.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: wife like a different person almost overnight_ separation discussions!*

Vill: welcome to TAM. I agree with the last poster. There is a lot to take from you initial post.



Vill H said:


> @Richard_73
> Your story pains me so much that I joined this site just to respond to your post. I noticed you have been married for awhile and as life goes on you and your wife will evolve individually as well as a couple. You both have a duty to express your individual and couple needs to each other. What your wife is doing is very selfish on her part. As your wife started changing internally, she kept her feelings to herself and did not share with you about these changes that were occurring within her. As her husband, she had a duty to communicate this to you; and whatever you do, do not take responsibility for her actions! You may hear comments from people who might say to you that you must have seen something, because thing just don’t happen --- ignore these comments, please! Comments like this does nothing but make you question and blame yourself for your wife’s and OM’s actions. Remember, you can’t change a problem that you don’t know exists; and I’m sure when you noticed certain things that were a little off with her and brought it to her attention, she just lied and deceived you. This was easy for her to do, because the lies she told were basically plausible and you believed her over your instinct, because you loved and trusted her (based on her past actions and your past history with her). Only people who have been in your shoes will truly relate to the emotional, physical and mental pain you’re going through as a result of your wife’s lies, deceit, and abandonment and even then no two of us can feel exactly the other’s pain.
> 
> As I was going through my life-changing event, I was told over and over to concentrate on me and not on my spouse and my marital situation, but that is a statement easier said than done; and now I am saying these same words to you, because in the end you will find out that she has already left you for her OM. I don’t know your total situation, but I don’t want to see you waste your precious love and life over someone who could care less about you anymore --- harsh, but true! I felt your pain in your words and statement: “wife like a different person almost overnight”. That tells me, from your perception that you believed you were a good husband and in a good marriage and unaware that your wife was no longer feeling this way. Her present actions are shouting at you. Please keep your mind open to other possibilities about your wife --- she is no longer the woman you believe her to be. You loved her and up until now she has been this wonderful wife and you can’t wrap your mind around what is going on? How did this happen out of nowhere? In reality, this happened overnight for you, but not for her [please looks up “Exit Affairs”]. She has been simmering this in her mind for a while and now that she’s ready to make her move, she expect you to just move on, leave her alone, and except her unilateral decision --- very, very unrealistic!!! The problem is that your perception of your wife has not changed. She is still that special woman that you love, adored, and married; and since she is so special in your eyes you can’t wrap your mind around what she is doing. You feel something is temporarily going on with her so you’re sticking in there for the long haul (something that should normally be expected from both of you). Unfortunately, your wife no longer sees you as special. She has wrongfully displaced and projected her love for you to another man. And trust if she hasn’t already done so, she will soon be blaming you for everything to justify her adultery. She will make it appear as though she is the victim and has been miserable for quite some time and that she was trying to work things through, but couldn’t take it anymore and had to leave for her “happiness”.
> 
> The hardest thing for you to do now is to except your new reality. Since you could not read her mind you were deprived the opportunity to make adjustments for your marriage as a couple. So you cannot own your part to the demise of your marriage since you don’t know what was going on with her internally. She is not respecting you, herself, or your marriage. Your wife has a poor moral compass, which is now being revealed. She established a relationship with another man, when she knew this was wrong, because she’s married! She never told you she had unmet needs that were not being met --- deceitful. Even if your wife is going through a mid-life crisis, it does not justify her adulterous actions! Sadly, adultery has become so prevalent in our society. Even if you are separated, you are not free to date other people. It is a time to reflect on your marriage and work things through.
> 
> For the past 3 ½ years I have been going through exactly what you are going through now. I was with my spouse for 21 years and I thought I had a great marriage (married 15 yrs + engaged 6 yrs). We got along wonderfully. We had open communication between us (so I thought), respected each other, plenty of physical and non-physical intimacy --- so what happened? I really don’t know to this day and have been racking my brain (with the luxury of hindsight) to figure it out. I just know I was abandoned for no reason and now my spouse no longer interacts with our son. I, also, know that there were two adulterous partners (my spouse already remarried the 2nd adulterous partner) and now blames me for the demised of our marriage --- so get ready for your spouse to re-write history.
> 
> DON’T FORGET: Committing adultery is a decision not an accident --- it doesn’t “just happen”! Your wife is still making choices!
> 
> Note: You need your partner’s willingness to marry them, but your spouse doesn’t need your willingness to divorce you? There is something definitely wrong with the new divorce laws!
> 
> Personally, I don’t believe in divorce and like you was very will to work on our marriage, but to my regret, my spouse finally filed for the divorce. I’m not condoning you to file, but I do want you to mentally prepare yourself to protect your mind, heart, and assets, before you endure more damage then you already have.


----------



## Vill H

You’re right, Alpha --- eerie. I could write a “script” hand book for the things adulterers say. Evidently, someone must have already done so, because they all have the same excuses; and if adulterers were a football team, I would win every time, because they all use the same playbook. I’m sure you’re correct when you say it could have been you writing my thread, because that is just how I feel when I read others’ thread. Like I said: “Playbook”. WSs are playing offense and the BSs are on defense, except the BSs are totally oblivious that a game has started; and by time the BSs become aware the game has started there’s about 3 minutes left --- game over!


----------



## Vill H

Thanks for the welcome greeting, farsidejunky. Yes, we can all take each others’ experiences to help ourselves or enlighten us, regarding our situation.


----------



## southernsurf

Vill H said:


> You’re right, Alpha --- eerie. I could write a “script” hand book for the things adulterers say. Evidently, someone must have already done so, because they all have the same excuses; and if adulterers were a football team, I would win every time, because they all use the same playbook. I’m sure you’re correct when you say it could have been you writing my thread, because that is just how I feel when I read others’ thread. Like I said: “Playbook”. WSs are playing offense and the BSs are on defense, except the BSs are totally oblivious that a game has started; and by time the BSs become aware the game has started there’s about 3 minutes left --- game over!


Nice analogy - sorry gotta ask can't tell if you are M or F from that nice writeup - also know your WS has a 3% chance of that M lasting
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Vill H

@southernsurf. I'm a female.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Just some words that Vill H posted that I think are worth repeating below:




> *By Vill H*
> She has been simmering this in her mind for a while and now that she’s ready to make her move she expect you to just move on, leave her alone, and except her unilateral decision --- very, very unrealistic!!!
> 
> The problem is that your perception of your wife has not changed. She is still that special woman that you love, adored, and married; and since she is so special in your eyes you can’t wrap your mind around what she is doing
> 
> Your wife no longer sees you as special. She has wrongfully displaced and projected her love for you to another man.
> 
> The hardest thing for you to do now is to except your new reality.


In time the BS will realize that his/her spouse has killed some things that are special. One thing that will be killed is your trust that your spouse will have your back no matter what and will never betray you and replace you. *That special trust and admiration will die because of an EA or a PA.*

Another quote that I want to comment on is: 
“Your wife no longer sees you as special. She has wrongfully displaced and projected her love for you to another man.”

The above will drive a person to the bottom of the self worth valley. That is why making a plan to build youself up is so very important.


*Learn to be as self sufficient as possible and never put too much of your self worth in anyone.*


----------



## richard_73

Dear Vill H
,
Thanks so much for your post and for sharing your story! Sorry to hear you have been through this same horror show! 

I've been offline a few days drinking too much and getting emotionally much worse. I thought I was at the bottom a few weeks ago BUT I was nowhere near.

Your text is absolutely accurate. Our beautiful life together has been rewritten with twisted anecdotes about what kind of person I am but they are all nonsense although unbelievably hurtful.

She has become even more malignant this week as a mix of hatred and guilt consumes her. She is hard to be around at all.

Unfortunately I cannot divulge too many of the stories details as I fear discovery.

but your are absolutely right. I need to try and accept my new life, as horrible as it looks right now. My old habits of loving, caring and looking our for her are hardwired and I can't turn them off so easily.

Even after all this time I still have a notion that this cannot be really happening!

Worse, everybody knows now so the thought of the gossip has turned my dignity to dust.

Thanks again

R


----------



## richard_73

*Learn to be as self sufficient as possible and never put too much of your self worth in anyone.*[/QUOTE]

sorry blunt I don't believe that's a code I can live by. This can happen yes but you must live with an open heart.

You can't love someone 99.5%.

R


----------



## richard_73

R[/quote]


----------



## ThreeStrikes

richard_73 said:


> *Learn to be as self sufficient as possible and never put too much of your self worth in anyone.*


sorry blunt I don't believe that's a code I can live by. This can happen yes but you must live with an open heart.

You can't love someone 99.5%.

R[/QUOTE]

Try loving yourself first.

It's not normal to love people who hurt us.

Are you in IC?


----------



## SamuraiJack

richard_73 said:


> Dear Vill H
> ,
> Your text is absolutely accurate. Our beautiful life together has been rewritten with twisted anecdotes about what kind of person I am but they are all nonsense although unbelievably hurtful.
> 
> My old habits of loving, caring and looking our for her are hardwired and I can't turn them off so easily.
> 
> 
> R


I have lived this my friend. 
I got the hat, the t-shirt and the coffee mug to prove it. I will make no bones about it. It sucks in a way that made my childhood abandonment look paltry in comparison.
The good part of this is that you WILL survive and most likely come out knowing yourself on a level you didnt think possible before.

Read some books, get into therapy and rebuild yourself!
Th more you can concentrate on doing that, the less you have to focus on her actions.

Karma will play itself out. Cheaters can never trust another cheater and it's only a matter of time before this blows up in her face. Then you can sit back and enjoy it.


----------



## richard_73

SamuraiJack said:


> I have lived this my friend.
> I got the hat, the t-shirt and the coffee mug to prove it. I will make no bones about it. It sucks in a way that made my childhood abandonment look paltry in comparison.
> The good part of this is that you WILL survive and most likely come out knowing yourself on a level you didnt think possible before.
> 
> Read some books, get into therapy and rebuild yourself!
> Th more you can concentrate on doing that, the less you have to focus on her actions.
> 
> Karma will play itself out. Cheaters can never trust another cheater and it's only a matter of time before this blows up in her face. Then you can sit back and enjoy it.


Thanks for that & sorry to hear you lived the same hell!
Good to hear you became stronger for it.
I have some serious work to do!
What a mess, can't think about tomorrow too much so small steps!
R


----------



## honcho

Your hit to your dignity is short term and more your perception right now more than anything. How you carry yourself thru the crisis moving forward is how to get your dignity back. 

Showing the world and yourself that you have self worth, you are done taking her hatred and you don’t deserve a life of dealing with it. Gossip dies off pretty fast and people do pretty quickly do start to see what is really going on. You must start to show the strong face and yes you have to bluff it at first. Your trying to deal and looking at your wife as you did in the past. You need to realize who she is today and you cant because your keeping yourself in the center of the storm.

Yes you have taken care of her for a long time and its awkward at first to not make decisions with her in mind but once you give yourself some breathing space it will happen. Only you control your bottom and only you control when you start climbing out of the hole. Its not a matter of accepting a new life but more how you are controlling YOUR life.


----------



## Chaparral

Has she moved out, sorry can't rremember.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By Blunt*
> Learn to be as self sufficient as possible and never put too much of your self worth in anyone.
> 
> *reply by Richard*
> sorry blunt I don't believe that's a code I can live by. This can happen yes but you must live with an open heart.
> 
> You can't love someone 99.5%.
> 
> R



Rich
*Yes you can love someone 99.5%.* If you want to have 100% love then that requires 100% trust. *You had 100% trusts so now look at you; you are almost destroyed!*



> *Quotes of Richard*
> 
> Cant sleep and I'm falling to bits. Doesn't matter what anyone says to me. She is my whole life! gutted: (
> 
> Can't get out of bed, Cant sleep, don't want to eat, i've acted like a doormat
> 
> Just can't seem to face it at all. My dreams are torture.
> 
> My mind is completely short circuited, I can't control it even with meditation.
> 
> this is without a doubt the worst space i have ever been in. Pure hell,
> 
> Last night I realised if I don't get this under control soon I risk long term basket case syndrome
> 
> I almost had a complete breakdown a month ago. Now I'm emotionally fried, tired and just not sure I have the energy for more games
> 
> I've been offline a few days drinking too much and getting emotionally much worse. I thought I was at the bottom a few weeks ago BUT I was nowhere near


I know that you are deeply hurt and are desperate for the love that is ideal; a love that is 100%, but that is mostly in the movies. *Rich you can still have a deep satisfying love (less than 100%) with someone and at the same time protect yourself from being devastated and be some what self sufficient.*


You have put too much of your whole worth in your wife and look what happened. In addition you can really help yourself a lot by becoming more self sufficient. Being more self sufficient does not mean that you need no one and you are an island. *Being self sufficient means you having enough strength to take a blow like infidelity and not be so devastated and being able to take the hit and get to a position that you can live with her or without her. *

Rich you sound like a good man to me but you may need to get in better shape and learn more about the reality of love and war and life. From what I have read on your thread your wife really shyt on you and you seem like a good man. For those reasons I am trying to help you get through this crises and to protect you from future devastations that render you “gutted”, “a door mat”,” tortured”, and a “basket case” to name just a few.


Rich, I am not trying to get you to be stone cold and abandon love. *I am trying to get you to accept the reality that for NOW you have to concentrate on yourself, to become more self sufficient, force yourself to not be consumed with your wife, so that you can get through these crises.*

You have absolutely no control over your wife and she has chosen often to reject you and replace you with another OM. I know that hurts like hell but ignoring that will not make it go away or get you better.


Rich you only have control over yourself and right now you do not have much of that. *Your wife is very cruel and if you stay consumed with her you will be destroyed*. You can either stay in the state that you are in or you can do everything that you can to build yourself up, force yourself to not be consumed with your wife and become an even better main the future.

*
You are now in the jungle kingdom; only the strong survive!*


----------



## 2ntnuf

Get into counseling, R73. If you are emotionally worse, it will help.

I do understand going through all the pain. I am still there. I am in counseling. I know I loved 100% and what seems like more. I did not love her as she wanted, though. That's something different and what you have to consider. She may have wanted you to love her in a different way than what you think is love. We all see love as something slightly different when we are looking at it as what someone shows us through actions. More in a minute.

ETA: The problem at this point of your marriage is that she has already, if I understand correctly, decided that she no long wants to try. If I am incorrect, I apologize and ask for correction. You may have a chance while she is still at home. 

Once she leaves, unless you have some really strong boudaries and rules in place, generally there is a reason they want to leave. men or women. That's simply because they have someone waiting in the wings. Not in all cases, though. It seems that is the case in your situation. 

You have to now consider that there are new, pleasurable memories being made and reinforced by the brain chemicals released that produce feelings of euphoria, happiness, connection, love, infatuation, and those are all connected to someone new. This is normal in human beings. It is there for a reason. Mainly to bond us to the man or woman we are making a baby with, so our species will continue. In these modern times, we associate those feelings with love and excitement, and not so much procreation. However, they are associated with a new person. 

You are not creating new memories that produce good feelings such as above at this point in time. I assume you are afraid that she will be driven from you if you do take the bull by the horns and file for divorce and set some rules. That is quite possible, but it is also quite possible that she will associate new bad feelings with the new relationship. There are NO guarantees, though. 

In any event, you will do great harm to yourself if you do not get the help you need with a counselor who can support you on top of all of the support you get at home and on TAM. It is a horrible shame, but it is true that you need to work on yourself. You cannot change her. You can only make yourself more attractive to her. You sometimes do that with changing the way you act from your usual to something that is different. It must be for you, though. She is not here to get help to reconcile. You are. 

What has been posted for you to start doing, is a great amount of experience and has been done by many here. They have successfully gotten through the tough times and come out okay. I encourage you to find a counselor. You will need the help to do whatever you decide.


----------



## richard_73

Thanks a lot Blunt, much appreciated.
I know its all true. 
But I'm at that stage where emotions are coming over me in strong waves and I don't really have any consistency throughout the day. certainly concerned that I cannot afford to let this mental battle slide south any further.

Think my problem now is that I can't seem to accept it's completely done.

She has listed so many reasons why it's all done even if the other guy is out of the picture. So there is absolutely no hope for us.

I seem to encompass everything she doesn't want in a husband now! 

But I can't accept and get busy with the 180 due to the denial and disbelief.

Concentrating on myself at the moment is the hardest thing I've ever done. As you have implied blunt I have been living too much for someone else.

I have become dependant and lost independence! But this is so ingrained in me its creating a powerful panic at the thought of losing her and of being alone.

R


----------



## richard_73

2ntnuf: The problem at this point of your marriage is that she has already, if I understand correctly, decided that she no long wants to try. If I am incorrect, I apologize and ask for correction. You may have a chance while she is still at home. 

That's correct, she isn't interested in RC as she is with another guy.

Also shes convinced that she would not want RC even if he wasn't there as "she has changed" and grown away from me.

Sorry to hear your are still going through this too. How long has it been?

R


----------



## Alpha

Hit the bottle huh? She got you good, didn't she?

So how about you quit moping around and just gut your wife! Get a lawyer and stick it to her real good. Where's your pride and dignity? You're a man goddamit and you don't take this sh*t!

Don't come back here and talk about your idea of love and how your wife ruined everything blah blah blah. We don't want to hear any more of it.

Let us know when you kicked that cancer out of the house and out of your life.


----------



## bigfoot

Op, I really see your pain. I'm not gonna go all Alpha on you (although he does have a point), but seriously, you need to stop circling the drain. It is painful to watch. 

You posted that you were "hardwired" to care for her, etc. Please recognize that you are hardwired to be a good and decent person, but that does not mean putting up with this crap. If you want your wife to at least respect you, and only God knows why you would care what she thinks of you at this point, you are going to have to man up. Seriously, some women are just repulsed by a weak man. Sorry to call you weak. Love and damaged self esteem are a horrible combination, so it is not your fault. It is like a sickness. Not that I believe the other guy is out of the picture, but she has told you that even if there is no one else, she still does not want you. CHANGE YOU. Not for her, but for you.

I don't mean go all caveman, cause that clearly is not you. I mean get decisive with her. You don't have to believe the stuff you say, you just have to make her believe it. Tell her it is over. She did not leave you, you got tired of her bull crap and left her. Tell yourself it is over. I know that it is hard, but you have to get off the crazy train. Get off the mopey train. Get on the self respect train and drive that sucker.

Respect yourself enough to say, "enough". respect yourself to file. Respect yourself enough to stop talking to her. You have seen with UNBELIEVABLE CLARITY what your way has brought... Absolutely everything that you don't want. Insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results. 

No more "small steps". Write out a plan and do it. Don't think about it. Don't analyze the implications. Just do it. File, separate, ignore, NEVER engage, NEVER APOLOGIZE, avoid her if you must. Just stay the course until it is done. If you ever engage her, you will crumble. You have to let this house come crashing down. Later, once it is completely destroyed, you can consider rebuilding. Hopefully, by that time you will realize that reuniting would be a foolish thing. On the other hand, if you do return, she will know that you have no problem walking away. That will breed some respect. Believe me. Weakness NEVER wins. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE JUST TRY IT FOR ONCE AND STICK TO IT. 

She will test your resolve and every time you respond to her, she will say to herself, "he is weak". You will think she is softening towards you, but no sir, it was a test and if you engage her, you fail. She will say, "let's go to counseling" and you will say, okay. FAIL. You say, no. Not angrily, just confidently tell her she can go to all of the counseling that she wants, we are done. If for some reason she sleeps with you, when you are done, get up and leave. No cuddling, no, I miss this. Just hit it and quit it. It sends a message. If you cuddle, if you say "I love you": FAIL. Believe me. BE A MAN.


----------



## 2ntnuf

richard_73 said:


> 2ntnuf: The problem at this point of your marriage is that she has already, if I understand correctly, decided that she no long wants to try. If I am incorrect, I apologize and ask for correction. You may have a chance while she is still at home.
> 
> That's correct, she isn't interested in RC as she is with another guy.
> 
> Also shes convinced that she would not want RC even if he wasn't there as "she has changed" and grown away from me.
> 
> Sorry to hear your are still going through this too. How long has it been?
> 
> R


I'm divorced. 

Not sure why you are commenting about my situation? I thought I was commenting on what you need to do and supporting you. Is that not what you thought I was doing? 

I think you need ot file for divorce. Do the things I didn't do. They are your best chance, now. As I said before, in the end, you can only do what you think is best.

Yes, I think it's way too late for you to do anything to help your marriage. I've been trying to convey that thought all along.


----------



## richard_73

bigfoot said:


> Op, I really see your pain. I'm not gonna go all Alpha on you (although he does have a point), but seriously, you need to stop circling the drain. It is painful to watch.
> 
> You posted that you were "hardwired" to care for her, etc. Please recognize that you are hardwired to be a good and decent person, but that does not mean putting up with this crap. If you want your wife to at least respect you, and only God knows why you would care what she thinks of you at this point, you are going to have to man up. Seriously, some women are just repulsed by a weak man. Sorry to call you weak. Love and damaged self esteem are a horrible combination, so it is not your fault. It is like a sickness. Not that I believe the other guy is out of the picture, but she has told you that even if there is no one else, she still does not want you. CHANGE YOU. Not for her, but for you.
> 
> I don't mean go all caveman, cause that clearly is not you. I mean get decisive with her. You don't have to believe the stuff you say, you just have to make her believe it. Tell her it is over. She did not leave you, you got tired of her bull crap and left her. Tell yourself it is over. I know that it is hard, but you have to get off the crazy train. Get off the mopey train. Get on the self respect train and drive that sucker.
> 
> Respect yourself enough to say, "enough". respect yourself to file. Respect yourself enough to stop talking to her. You have seen with UNBELIEVABLE CLARITY what your way has brought... Absolutely everything that you don't want. Insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results.
> 
> No more "small steps". Write out a plan and do it. Don't think about it. Don't analyze the implications. Just do it. File, separate, ignore, NEVER engage, NEVER APOLOGIZE, avoid her if you must. Just stay the course until it is done. If you ever engage her, you will crumble. You have to let this house come crashing down. Later, once it is completely destroyed, you can consider rebuilding. Hopefully, by that time you will realize that reuniting would be a foolish thing. On the other hand, if you do return, she will know that you have no problem walking away. That will breed some respect. Believe me. Weakness NEVER wins. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE JUST TRY IT FOR ONCE AND STICK TO IT.
> 
> 
> 
> She is commited to the OM and wont consider leaving him for RC.
> 
> That's the hardest part but I need to move on as she will not negotiate at all.
> 
> Looks like I need to accept the change now!
> 
> Will write out a plan and obey it.
> 
> Thanks for the pep talk,
> 
> R


----------



## richard_73

R


----------



## richard_73

richard_73 said:


> Point taken Alpha. but that's harsh. I admit going on a bit but that's simply a side effect of the emotionally fragile place I'm in, to be honest I just wanted to precipitate some responses as I'm feeling pretty isolated right now and some chat on TAM seems to help a little. Maybe part of me was hoping for a miracle message ; )
> 
> However, I appreciate your straight talking as it has perhaps helped more than anythinge else to date. Today is the first day I have really really "tried" to take some control back.
> 
> So far so good. I'm writing lists. Making plans and trying hard as hell to stay positive.
> 
> 
> R


----------



## 2ntnuf

r73,

What he said was harsh. You have a few choices. One is to get sad, depressed, and lose it by turning the anger you will not acknowledge or cannot get out of your system because it is so terribly strong, you could not show it. This will slowly crush your whole life.

Another is to get the anger out with physical exercise of any kind and taking things seriously with the rest of your anger and doing things legally, that you can to dish out what it deserved. It is quite harsh. You have to care for yourself at this point. As long as you are doing things that are lawful, you are fine. There are some fine, moral lines you may have to decide whether to cross or not. That's up to you. Your attorney can help you know what choices you can make. 

This is all for you. It is meant to help you keep your sanity. 

I did not do this stuff. You don't want to end up like me.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Worse, everybody knows now so the thought of the gossip has turned my dignity to dust."

Why in the world would you feel shame over her disgusting actions?

There is nothing you have to feel guilt over.


----------



## richard_73

2ntnuf said:


> r73,
> 
> What he said was harsh. You have a few choices. One is to get sad, depressed, and lose it by turning the anger you will not acknowledge or cannot get out of your system because it is so terribly strong, you could not show it. This will slowly crush your whole life.
> 
> Another is to get the anger out with physical exercise of any kind and taking things seriously with the rest of your anger and doing things legally, that you can to dish out what it deserved. It is quite harsh. You have to care for yourself at this point. As long as you are doing things that are lawful, you are fine. There are some fine, moral lines you may have to decide whether to cross or not. That's up to you. Your attorney can help you know what choices you can make.
> 
> This is all for you. It is meant to help you keep your sanity.
> 
> I did not do this stuff. You don't want to end up like me.


Thanks for the message. I'm doing plenty exercise and eating well and seeing friends as much as possible.

Very aware of not letting hate take over my life.

the relationship is now done completely and beyond repair.

Formal separation is being done as we speak.

Now comes my next big dilemma, although I hate what she has done and the way she has done it I need to move on and get a new life.

I need to communicate with her for business and will see her quite a lot.

Not sure I can keep up a face to face hate campaign!

I may have to be civil to avoid further stress in my life, that will take some serious Zen power!

This is going to be hard! I want to start a new relationship but it will be a while before I can even consider that move.

Can't waste time, really giving it everything I got this week.


R


----------



## Alpha

richard_73 said:


> Thanks for the message. I'm doing plenty exercise and eating well and seeing friends as much as possible.
> 
> Very aware of not letting hate take over my life.
> 
> the relationship is now done completely and beyond repair.
> 
> Formal separation is being done as we speak.
> 
> Now comes my next big dilemma, although I hate what she has done and the way she has done it I need to move on and get a new life.
> 
> I need to communicate with her for business and will see her quite a lot.
> 
> Not sure I can keep up a face to face hate campaign!
> 
> I may have to be civil to avoid further stress in my life, that will take some serious Zen power!
> 
> This is going to be hard! I want to start a new relationship but it will be a while before I can even consider that move.
> 
> Can't waste time, really giving it everything I got this week.
> 
> 
> R


Move on Richard no point holding on to someone who doesn't love you anymore.

You guys have a business together? I did with my wife. I knew I had to get her out of my mind as much as possible so I told her that I didn't ever want to see her and to hear her voice, and that she should respect my request. I also told her that my only mode of communication to her would be through text message and the only discussion would be about our children, nothing else.

If she needed to communicate with me about business, I would have someone in the office talk to her. I would have some serious flashbacks, who wouldn't, but zeroing out the communication and visual contact was a huge step forward for me.

You'll get through with this. Time is a healer, and if you follow most of the advice here and just move on and drop her, your road to recovery will be quicker.


----------



## richard_73

Alpha said:


> Move on Richard no point holding on to someone who doesn't love you anymore.
> 
> You guys have a business together? I did with my wife. I knew I had to get her out of my mind as much as possible so I told her that I didn't ever want to see her and to hear her voice, and that she should respect my request. I also told her that my only mode of communication to her would be through text message and the only discussion would be about our children, nothing else.
> 
> If she needed to communicate with me about business, I would have someone in the office talk to her. I would have some serious flashbacks, who wouldn't, but zeroing out the communication and visual contact was a huge step forward for me.
> 
> You'll get through with this. Time is a healer, and if you follow most of the advice here and just move on and drop her, your road to recovery will be quicker.


I know Alpha but I can't do it overnight! The flashbacks are just so bloody awful. I'm taking the advice. Seeing as many people as I can, eating well, exercise.
Your right , I can't keep seeing her as it's F'ing with my head.

R


----------



## PreRaphaelite

Richard: you need to take the big step, the one that will mean that you are forcing yourself to accept that your marriage is at an end: seeing a lawyer and having that lawyer draw up divorce papers and having them delivered to your cheating and soon-to-be-ex-wife.

By not doing that you are still harboring the idea of reconciliation, secretly hoping for it, giving yourself that one last chance just in case she comes crying back to you after seeing the light and realizing all the terrible things she's done. 

Forget it. It won't happen. It's done. Drag yourself kicking and screaming into the lawyer's office and get it done.

Your "wife" is in legal name only. Nothing else. Cut the legal cord. Get her the fvck out of your life. Once you hit that bottom, then you may see a glimmer of light coming from up out of shytehole you're in.


----------



## 2ntnuf

PreRaphaelite said:


> Richard: you need to take the big step, the one that will mean that you are forcing yourself to accept that your marriage is at an end: seeing a lawyer and having that lawyer draw up divorce papers and having them delivered to your cheating and soon-to-be-ex-wife.
> 
> 1.By not doing that you are still harboring the idea of reconciliation, secretly hoping for it, giving yourself that one last chance just in case she comes crying back to you after seeing the light and realizing all the terrible things she's done.
> 
> 2.Forget it. It won't happen. It's done. Drag yourself kicking and screaming into the lawyer's office and get it done.
> 
> Your "wife" is in legal name only. Nothing else. Cut the legal cord. Get her the fvck out of your life. Once you hit that bottom, then you may see a glimmer of light coming from up out of shytehole you're in.


1.This will destroy you completely, not just your business. 

2.Remember, she had to take some time, maybe years, to justify enough, believe herself, come to terms with what she was about to do and then,. doing, before she could come to the conclusion that her commitment to you was not what she truly wanted. 

How can she go back on what she determined and believes without losing her mind? I don't believe it's possible. And, if there ever would be a chance of anything occurring in the future, you'd have to be a different man. You'd have to submit to her beliefs that you caused her infidelity. You'd have to agree with her assessment of who you were at the time that caused her actions. You'd have to apologize for, "forcing", her to lose her love for you and stray. You'd have to agree that what she did was a consequence of your actions in the marriage, and that you alone, need to change to meet her needs. 

No one, man or woman, can possibly, wholly believe that is the truth. 

It's what is said here on TAM all the time. Your actions and inaction may have contributed to her decisions. They did not force her to stray. They may have forced her to lose love for you, but they did not make the decision for her to cheat, instead of giving the marriage commitment an honest try and then divorcing, before infidelity crept in. 

Some here want the man to apologize constantly for his wife's betrayal. I find that very disgusting, since it means to me, the woman is weaker than the man. I do not understand why other women sit back and let them write such dribble in this day and age.


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