# to be or not to be ...



## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

Wish i had found this site earlier, but i was looking in all the wrong places. 

I've 'been' with my girlfriend for over 10 years (we both meet at 24). We were together for the first 5 and then long distance for 3 years and then broken up for the next 2.5yrs (long distance) where she was just dating somebody else but really was in love with me and wanting to get married to me. She is loyal and not into serial dating. A good woman.

In the whole 10 years she has only loved me and been faithful (and both still true; i.ve never cheated on her either). In the first 7 years i was young and wanted freedom.. Although i am a reln man and thought i wanted to b a casanova, i wanted to find a 'better' woman (and to some extent i still want to.. Because i am hopeless with picking up, i want to prove to myself i can do it and get over that weaknes s). Abt 3yrs ago she gave up and we cut contact for 3 months while long distance. I hit 32 and realised i wanted to settle down. I'm now just about 35 and haven't meet anyone else.

When i hit 32, i desperately wanted to love her and be attracted to her and i wanted that to catapult me to propose to her. She is an amazing woman with high morals, good career, and well rounded - we are both compatible in these regards.

I have spent almost every spare moment of last 2 years pondering why i don't love her and i'm not attracted to her. She is losing patience and will probably marry the other guy. We live half way around the world and that's probably stopped some of the natural progression for me? Or maybe i'm getting old and think i can meet no-one better than her? If there were 20 criterias.. She meets 17.. Missing are the two i mentioned already-i don't love her and i'm not attracted to her. Is this really important considering we are compatible on so many other things and enjoy each others company? Won't i start loving her once we are together again? And they say sex is just 10 present of the relationship. I want to get on with my life and this woman situation had really really halted my life completely. I'm a tall (6'3"), intelligent, balanced, successful, athletic, good looking gent, so it gets me down that i've been lonely all my adult life because i've been searching searching searching for someone that mesmerizes me and to fall in love with

I've only had two other relationships before her.. 5yrs and 4yrs long.. So not someone who has experimented a lot with women; and of late, unfortunately, more strict with what i want so will reject advances from women who don't meet my fundamental criterias (age, marital status, career and family orientation, fidelity, etc) and ofcourse all the good ones are hitched by this age.

Thanks for reading this far and tolerating the honesty..it's a long post but wanted to get the right advice from whoever bothers to read it.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Don't do it. No matter what your other "criteria" are, the two you mention are deal breakers.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Love and attraction are the things that build the passion in a marriage. Without them life together is flat.

My thought after reading your post is that you hang onto the thought of her so that you have reason to reject other women. 
The cure? Date… start dating. For a while don’t be so serious about it. Just go out with women and have a good time. Do fun things. Get comfortable with being around women in a dating environment.
Determine the main characteristics that you are looking for in a woman. One good way to meet a lot of women quickly is an online dating site. Meet women who live in the same city you do. List what your are looking for:
age, marital status, career and family orientation, fidelity,
Then start dating. Meet each one you think is a possibility for coffee. It’s a low pressure first date to see if there is any possibility of a match. 

Then if you like a woman ask her out for another date.

There are plenty of single young women in this world with the characteristics of your ex.


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

But that's the question.. How important is love and attraction over say loyalty?

I have some very close male friend who love their long-term girlfriends, fiancés, and wives but constantly cheat on them. These are professional men who truly believe, when i asked them in non-related convo, that they love their partners.

I suppose loyalty is assumed unless proven otherwisE. I would b crushed if i found out my trust was broken.. Hence i value my ex so much .. Her Love for me has been unbroken under the toughest of circumstances... Always hoping for my Love in return. And that's 10yrs of loyalty under those circumstances


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Not to be!

You know it's not her. You obsess with her because you haven't found anyone. Get out and find someone else. Find your love.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

kuteguy said:


> But that's the question.. How important is love and attraction over say loyalty?


I think you are looking at it the wrong way...

Love, attraction, and loyalty are ALL important! Find someone that gives you all 3.


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## grenville (Sep 21, 2011)

Not to be! Seriously, you'd be crazy to marry someone that you don't love and aren't atracted to. Loyalty is important of course, but it's not the sole basis for a marriage.

One related point, and I prepare myself to be flamed by the female board members here, but you're approaching the age where many women that you would never have thought would be interested in you suddenly will be. Give it a couple of years and you'll have way more choice than you ever expected.


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

grenville;826910 said:


> One related point, and I prepare myself to be flamed by the female board members here, but you're approaching the age where many women that you would never have thought would be interested in you suddenly will be. Give it a couple of years and you'll have way more choice than you ever expected.


I'm sincerely really slow in these kinds of things :-(
Do you mean it in a good way or bad way? Please explain


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I agree with the others love and attraction are HUGE....move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## grenville (Sep 21, 2011)

kuteguy said:


> I'm sincerely really slow in these kinds of things :-(
> Do you mean it in a good way or bad way? Please explain


I mean it in a good way. Assuming you're a normal sort of guy with a decent career, all your own teeth etc, you will find that women who previously only went for the outlaw biker types will, once they hit their mid-30s, suddenly start to take an interest in you. Worrying about finding someone you really can love, assuming you're not crazy, smelly, seriously ugly etc. isn't necessary.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

kuteguy said:


> Wish i had found this site earlier, but i was looking in all the wrong places.
> 
> I've 'been' with my girlfriend for over 10 years (we both meet at 24). We were together for the first 5 and then long distance for 3 years and then broken up for the next 2.5yrs (long distance) where she was just dating somebody else but really was in love with me and wanting to get married to me. She is loyal and not into serial dating. A good woman.
> 
> ...


Sounds like it's been over for years. What are you doing? Move on! You're not even 'with' her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

kuteguy said:


> But that's the question.. How important is love and attraction over say loyalty?
> 
> I have some very close male friend who love their long-term girlfriends, fiancés, and wives but constantly cheat on them. These are professional men who truly believe, when i asked them in non-related convo, that they love their partners.
> 
> I suppose loyalty is assumed unless proven otherwisE. I would b crushed if i found out my trust was broken.. Hence i value my ex so much .. Her Love for me has been unbroken under the toughest of circumstances... Always hoping for my Love in return. And that's 10yrs of loyalty under those circumstances


She has another boyfriend. So apparenlty she is not as loyal to you as you seem to think she is. Under the circumstance it makes sense that she would have another boyfriend. The two of you are not together.

Loyalty is very important. Add that to your list. The problem is, as you say, it's hard to know if a person will always be loyal until afterwards.

Things to add to your list.

The belief that divorce is not an option.

Someone who will let you know what they need and not hold in resentment forever.


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

grenville said:


> I mean it in a good way. Assuming you're a normal sort of guy with a decent career, all your own teeth etc, you will find that women who previously only went for the outlaw biker types will, once they hit their mid-30s, suddenly start to take an interest in you. Worrying about finding someone you really can love, assuming you're not crazy, smelly, seriously ugly etc. isn't necessary.



Thanks.

That's what i thought you meant but didn't want to guess. With all due respect, i wouldn't go for that sort of girl/woman. I'd like to think that my partner comes with a good head on her shoulder and not someone who has dated bad boys.. Had her fun, and now looking for someone like me to settle down with. I'd feel like i was being used esp. Since i haven't done anything like that myself.

I've met a few like that already and it didn't fly with me.. i'm happy to be friends with them as variety is the spice of life but not in my spouse 

Surprised to see no one is supportive of the 'you will learn to love her' option


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

kuteguy said:


> Surprised to see no one is supportive of the 'you will learn to love her' option


It is just as valid as finding a mate and saying that you'll learn to find her attractive, you'll learn to trust her to be loyal, etc.

Why start from a weak position? Find someone better suited.


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## grenville (Sep 21, 2011)

kuteguy said:


> Surprised to see no one is supportive of the 'you will learn to love her' option


Too many of us already know from personal experience that it won't work I suspect!


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Not to be.


Just cut the strings.

Start going out with male friends.. to places you like to go. if there are single females there that you're attracted to... then start up a conversation & flirt a little. You never know what could happen.


And sorry. NO... if you haven't "learned to love her" in the past 10 years... It's not gonna happen in the next 10. Don't propose. She'll be miserable in a short period of time.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Population on Planet Earth exceeds 7 billion people. I think you should start looking for someone - and I KNOW there is someone out there - with whom you will fall in love.

I went through 16-plus years of school to learn.

Never learned a darn thing about "love."

That I learned from The School of Life.

If you don't have it for this woman by now, I'm sorry ... don't think there's a snowball's chance in he!! that you are going to "learn" how to love her now. Respect? Admiration? Loyalty? Sure. And they are integral parts of love.

But that special spark comes from within. Go forth and date. There IS a special woman for you out there.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> I'm sorry ... don't think there's a snowball's chance in he!! that you are going to "learn" how to love her now. Respect? Admiration? Loyalty? Sure. And they are integral parts of love.


Also parts/ qualities of a good friend. Find a friend.
Also qualities of a good dog. Buy a dog.


But don't marry someone just on these things.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

kuteguy said:


> Wish i had found this site earlier, but i was looking in all the wrong places.
> 
> I've 'been' with my girlfriend for over 10 years (we both meet at 24). We were together for the first 5 and then long distance for 3 years and then broken up for the next 2.5yrs (long distance) where she was just dating somebody else but really was in love with me and wanting to get married to me. She is loyal and not into serial dating. A good woman.
> 
> ...




It's been my experience that good women are attracted to good men. Your lack of humility is most likely repelling the type of women your looking to marry. You need to ask yourself why you have to pickup women to prove something to yourself. It's a weakness as you mentioned but its also the key to figuring out why you're alone. 

Peace


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

kuteguy said:


> Wish i had found this site earlier, but i was looking in all the wrong places.
> 
> I've 'been' with my girlfriend for over 10 years (we both meet at 24). We were together for the first 5 and then long distance for 3 years and then broken up for the next 2.5yrs (long distance) where she was just dating somebody else but really was in love with me and wanting to get married to me. She is loyal and not into serial dating. A good woman.
> 
> ...


Only you can decide how important you consider attractions and feelings of love. 

As I read your post, what strikes me most is that now, at 35, you say she's the closest ever to meeting your standards and it's still not enough. 

I suspect you fear commitment and the responsibilities it brings, so even if you DID cave and marry her, within a very short time, you'd feel unhappy and start seeking other women. This can only hurt everyone involved, so I'm in the "don't do it" camp. Either accept a life of singlehood or get into some counseling to figure out why you have such unrealistic expectations.


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

more like i'm 35 and i'm running out of time if i have not already; my expiry date is close.. Already got a few white hairs!

If i was 28-30 then it wouldn't be a rush to settle down

I mean my friends say they live their partners but are constantly cheating on them (postcode rule).. So maybe my idea of love is romanticized? It doesn't exist in the real world; and reading so many of the other posts would support that

I mean 90%+ people are/have been married on here so they must have loved their partner right but now that had run out; so perhaps i'm putting the cart before the house and wrong about things not working out before i've given it a chance


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Marrying someone you don't love and are not attracted to is a cruel and selfish thing to do. You think she won't know? There are posts on this site of many spouses, men and women, who don't feel loved or desired by the person they love. It is heartbreaking and soul destroying.

You sound pretty self-obsessed, frankly. Primarily concerned with what you are or aren't going to get out of a marriage. I wish your ex/gf/whatever was posting here. I'd be telling her to stay far far away.


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

She knows that about me (self-obsessed, etc) and exactly how i feel (love, attraction).. I don't Lie to her about anything


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

Ok so this might be obvious to everyone but i finally had an epiphany, so humor me

Passion, desire, fear

Passion causes desire.. Which causes us to take action and make things happen. I felt this for her once for about 4 months and i did move mountains to make things happen

Whereas, in this context, fear causes paralysis (amongst other things) and hence inaction. And that's why my two years of pondering but not doing anything. I am afraid i might lose her and she might have been the best thing i ever (could have) had... It's not coming from a place of passion and desire for her

So atleast now i can focus on 'am i passionate for her and what she has to offer?' Which is much more specific, and better, than just asking 'do i want to be with her or not?' (ala NLP) .. Which is too vague; because if i am passionate for her than any other obstacle can be overcome...

If the answer, within the next few days is no, then i move on!


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

But... Does she still make your heart sing after these years together? 

Does her smile still light up the room for you?

Is this desire for her still strong enough that sometimes you feel like you just want to stay in bed & cuddle with this person for the next week or two?


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

Chelle D said:


> But... Does she still make your heart sing after these years together?
> 
> Does her smile still light up the room for you?
> 
> Is this desire for her still strong enough that sometimes you feel like you just want to stay in bed & cuddle with this person for the next week or two?




Never had the feeling in 10yrs with her! She is such a great girl and my head hurts thinking whyi don't have these feelings for her.. She should be the one :-(

I'm scared i am incapable of loving maybe and so the problem is me and not her ... And i don't want to lose her and find this out.. she could be the best thing i ever could have had (reminds me off beyonce's new song)


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

A few people have said that i've got unrealistic expectations of a relationship on this thread. Can people please constructively explain what they think those unrealistic expectations are.

E.g. say i am a surgeon.. Who has worked his @ss off through school, uni and worked hard to be successful; then if my expectations are to meet someone of similar status.. Then why is that wrong.. They can appreciate more what i've had to go through and a nice double income is needed these days to live comfortably in metropolitan cities. So i dont want someone who wants to be a house wife or doesn't make a six figure salary. Why is that unrealistic... i'm looking for my equal ...

Re:my ex and the other guy.. It's complicated ;-) she doesn't have feelings for him... He's just right place right time and he is in love with her.. Already proposed twice. She is an investment bank lawyer so doesn't have time to meet other guys and wants to get married and have kids before it's too late. She's already lost 10 years on me.. Waiting and hoping i'd come around.. Which i kind of did..decided two years ago that i do want to settle down, but don't want to do it without a spark in my heart.

Love is a choice? I disagree.. It should just happen and not be a choice.. Am i wrong in thinking that? Am i romanticizing it? (never been in love before and that is what i'm waiting for..)


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

There is something so weird about the way you write about love and marriage. Do you have some kind of personality disorder? There just seems to be no emotion in anything you write.

In terms of love, you don't fall in love with someone because of what they do or have achieved, you fall in love because of who they are, emotionally, physically and intellectually. I have loved my husband since we were 18. There were no checklists, or criteria, or requirements. Just love, the feeling when we were lying next to each other that we had found the other half of ourselves.

20 years later I still love him like that. Luckily for me he turned out to be loyal, trustworthy, a fantastic father and very successful career-wise. But that's not why I love him. I love the essence of who he is, how he smells, how we fit together.

We have had lots of hard times but without that underlying love, we wouldn't still be together.

Maybe you aren't able to love that way. From your posts it certainly sounds so. In that case, go ahead, marry this woman who you say knows how you feel. You may as well arrange yourself the best deal you can, maybe it will work okay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

okay you were together 7 years and you didn't get married. Jeez IMO if you are together 3 years and marriage isn't a possibility I would have moved on. I am thinking of a Beyonce song now. "If ya liked it then ya shoulda put a ring on it."
Hell quit dragging this woman along an let her move on.


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

Yeah i must have a personality disorder.. There are so many to choose from, wish i knew which one i had so i could fix it

There's no emotion in what i write... because there is no emotion! Never felt any for any woman except one (who was more stuffed up than me.. But atleast i felt emotions for this other woman and it felt great to feel.. Eventhough she was a complete [email protected])

Waiting waiting waiting for someone to whom i can open my heart and feel love for the first time


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## edquintin (Jun 23, 2012)

You seem to be a decent guy so I will ask you: Why haven't you let this great girl go and move on with HER life? It seems a little selfish to stay in hers while you know her feelings towards you and yours aren't reciprocated?!? 

Women DO have a biological clock that ticks loudly. Most want to know how it feels to be pregnant and hold a newborn closely. Even if a women doesn't want children, we still have a natural, if not chemical, urge to pair-up for life. 

I drew the line for having children at 35. Seems like she is past that age. Did she forsake those prime baby carrying and birthing years to hold out to be fair.
By the way, 95% of women have been attracted to the "Bad Boy" at some time in their life. 75% of those grow up. Good luck to you. I hope you let Jane Eyre go and seek compatible attractive people via EHarmony or something. That can be a safe venue or church. Further your education will expose you to women with common interests.


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## edquintin (Jun 23, 2012)

kuteguy said:


> Yeah i must have a personality disorder.. There are so many to choose from, wish i knew which one i had so i could fix it
> 
> There's no emotion in what i write... because there is no emotion! Never felt any for any woman except one (who was more stuffed up than me.. But atleast i felt emotions for this other woman and it felt great to feel.. Eventhough she was a complete [email protected])
> 
> Guess you are not a decent guy. Sounds like you are attracted to the "Bad Girl". I hope you either figure out what disorder you suffer from to get therapy or just avoid "life partner" relationships for the sake of humanity. Have you explored (not using this as an insult) that you may be Metro, Bi or flat out gay? I still really hope things work out the best for you and especially that good girl you're stringing along.


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## kuteguy (Jun 15, 2012)

absolutely no rebuttal from me
all point are fair and/or fringing on the possible so hats off to the good and insightful words

I only wish I had found my 'one' 10 years ago. I have to face reality that I havent and I dont have the skills to meet the one .. for now. And spend the next year working on getting those skills

she is in the same boat as me. the guy she is with .. she has no feelings for but she cant keep waiting for me forever .. 10 years already. and yea she'll be 35 this year. She informed me that she is going to get engaged to him next month and all her plans with him .. kids, etc. I am really down that I am losing her but at the same time biting my tongue and letting her go down that path (I think its wrong .. she has NO feelings for him but ofcourse she has a biological clock and wants 2-3 kids). 

I only ask god why he has decided to punish me in this way but I am always a 'glass is half full' kind of guy and look forward to the adventures the next year will bring. It will definitely be one hell of an eventful year .. falling down, getting up, getting stronger .. getting better to the point where women will not be a weakness for me any more

re: gay .. DEFINITELY NOT GAY! I do like transsexuals though as they are kinkly hot! but not in a settle down with them kind of way. but yes I am quite in touch with my feminine side (maybe more than I should be) ... but I know now I need to push my limits and expand my boundaries.

I appreciate your kind support .. esp from the women as I am soo lost when it comes to understanding the opposite sex. I keep being told by them that I am such a package,etc ... yet they want men to make the first move.. whatever happened to equality!!!?!?!? wish women would also play their part if they want equality.and stop being shy about approaching men. 

re: bad girls. definitely not. I dnt have any respect for bad girls at all! I have, at each stage in my life, done the right things (study, job, etc) hence can't be attracted to someone that has done otherwise. please respect that and don't be offended. I love having friends from all walks of society but not my life partner. 

On the other hand I love strong, opinionated women who are not afraid to put forward their opinion and butt heads - ode to them!


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