# Too Little too Late... Wife says



## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Hi All,

Read through alot of the stories on here and everyone seems extremely supportive and willing to help share their experiences.

Just thinking of this brings me to tears. Yesterday my wife of 5+ years told me she wasn’t happy, and wanted a divorce. I’m not sure it hit me fully right away. I commend her courage for even being able to come out with something like this. I still love her so much and the thought of her not being in my future breaks me. 

We had your typical marriage (I thought anyways). We had our issues just like anybody else and the straw the broke the camels back was my inability to show her my affection after we were married. I blame myself and only myself for this. I look back and think how easy it would have been for me to provide her one more hug, one more kiss, one more compliment just to show her how much she meant to me. 

We’ve talked about it before, but I was young (early 20′s) and I didnt understand what it meant to be married, the work involved. I had this grand vision that once I was married, the marriage would take care of itself and we’d retire together in a beach city. I didnt know, and was stupid for assuming such.

I’ve made strides as a husband over the last 6-12 months which my wife did acknowledge, however in her words it was ” too little, too late”. I guess I would have thought this was a good sign and projects us back towards a loving/healthy relationship. She is unable to let go of the anger and resentment she had for me from earlier in our marriage. This is up to her, if she cant get past what she felt before, then I accept what she needs from me and wants for her life.

What kills me the most is our two children. 1.5 and 3.5 they are the loves of both of our lives. I cant even write about this topic without tears welling up, slowly streaming down my face. I think of the first day that I’ll be without them in the morning, and wont be able to greet them with a kiss and a good morning. Or be able to make them breakfast and get them strapped into the car so I can get to daycare on time.

I speak with my 3.5 year old daughter all the time about the great things were going to do this summer once this snow leaves. We were going to go camping, and look for birds. See the circus when it comes in town, and maybe her favorite thing, go to the avation day at the local airport and surpise her with a helicopter ride. All these things I had envisioned with my beautiful wife by my side to enjoy the moments that only come along once.

Today she told me that she was tired of putting me first (and the kids) while being unhappy and sleep walking through life. She wanted to work on herself and her happiness to be the best person and parents she can be. Also swears that there is no other man, which I've been told not to believe, but I do.

ughh, thanks everyone for reading.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Are you seeing a counselor to deal with your issues?


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Hi arendt. Currently I am not. Will I going forward, maybe. Ive only spoken to one friend about it and he was on vacation so it wasnt too in depth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Read through alot of the stories on here and everyone seems extremely supportive and willing to help share their experiences.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry man, I know how you feel. My story is pretty much the same. It hurts when you're planing for the future of your family. Believe none of what they say, and half of what you see. My personal opinion is when your in a marriage and your partner doesn't want to do what ever it takes to save their M then they must feel they have another option. Why would anyone want to throw away 5 years of M. Start to face it, don't be in denial like I am. Save yourself a lot of pain. What ever you do don't beg it makes you look weak and pushes them away. Start going to IC so you can continue to be good father. Put the kids first. We're all here for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Protect yourself. Financially, everything.

IF you want those kids, don't settle for less than 50% from the start. Don't budge.

Credit cards, bank accounts, everything. Beware!


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Rsfwid- its a shame that you story is a lot like mine. I'm actually lying here in bed and it still feels like its fake, a cruel joke. Ashton kuchter can jump out any minute now. I see her and think how's wouldnt n good terms for the mment.it possible for her to be gone. Once she gets living situation figured out its going to be real.

Lbh - I'm unfortunately lucky to be in a position with no wealthf' left to my name. Wife and I lost our home a few years back and her financial habits have kept us for a lack of better words 'down'. But were on good terms for the moment. So she is totally willing to do full joint custody legal and physical. She recognizes that I am I fantastic father if anything else.

Back to rsf's point. I can honestly put 90 percent of our financial hardship and loss of our home on her actions. Yet I would never divorce her over it. I would rather have my family. Considering I'm obsessive over money and having it that says alot. Grew up poor and never wanted that life for myself or my kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> Rsfwid- its a shame that you story is a lot like mine. I'm actually lying here in bed and it still feels like its fake, a cruel joke. Ashton kuchter can jump out any minute now. I see her and think how's wouldnt n good terms for the mment.it possible for her to be gone. Once she gets living situation figured out its going to be real.
> 
> Lbh - I'm unfortunately lucky to be in a position with no wealthf' left to my name. Wife and I lost our home a few years back and her financial habits have kept us for a lack of better words 'down'. But were on good terms for the moment. So she is totally willing to do full joint custody legal and physical. She recognizes that I am I fantastic father if anything else.
> 
> ...


That goes to my point, why can't she cherish your M, til death do us part. You do! They rather take the easy way out and hold on to things you did in the past, rather then come up with a plan going forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

First I am sorry that you are here, it is an incredibly hard and confusing time. You are not 100% to blame for your situation. Don’t just throw yourself on the sword so to speak. It took two of you to get to this situation. You know your weak areas or issues, all you can do is work on those. She needs to work on hers. 

You are early in the game and I will sound like the cynical one here but if you read enough stories you will understand. You most likely are not getting the full story yet and blame deflection is a big issue when it comes to marriages ending. You haven’t been married that long, you have two young children, you have worked to improve yourself and now you get the “too little too late” speech. 

If she is unable to get over resentment, discuss issues that is her problem and you cant force her to talk. Your seemingly just getting excuses right now, generalities instead of reasons for her unhappiness and you cant make her happy, that is her responsibility. 

Don’t plead or try and force her to talk, offer counseling. Allow her to know you are available to talk when she wants to discuss issues other than that keep working on yourself, work on being a good father and as much as I hate to say it start investigating, computer history, phone log. You could very well have no idea what problem or real issue is yet. Most people rarely do when it starts. You cant force her to stay married and you cant make her happy. Keep a level head and control your emotions.

Has she talked about moving out or you moving out?


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

RSFWID said:


> That goes to my point, why can't she cherish your M, til death do us part. You do! They rather take the easy way out and hold on to things you did in the past, rather then come up with a plan going forward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey RSF - I decided to read through your post last night as it was next to mine. What I wanted to ask is how do you cope/accept all of this while still living with her? I cant seem to make it feel truly real to me at the moment, since I still see her daily and we are in general cordial to eachother. No hatred, while I do not agree nor accept what she wants. Her belief is we'll both be happier with people that love each one of us more when we find them. This must make it easier for her to push on me, that there is better out there. 

I badly want this to somehow come to a point where she decided to try and reconcile so I dont have it in me to tell her that one of us has to move right now. Nor do I want to miss time with my kids, once someone moves out, so do the kids(split custody) of course.

Yesterday I was struggling with the thought of sex with her. Considering Im the one in denial, I still have sexual needs and at moments desire for her. Its been years since I've had to go without.

Stay strong with your situation RSF.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

honcho said:


> Don’t plead or try and force her to talk, offer counseling. Allow her to know you are available to talk when she wants to discuss issues other than that keep working on yourself, work on being a good father and as much as I hate to say it start investigating, computer history, phone log. You could very well have no idea what problem or real issue is yet. Most people rarely do when it starts. You cant force her to stay married and you cant make her happy. Keep a level head and control your emotions.
> 
> Has she talked about moving out or you moving out?


Hi Honcho,

Thanks for the advice. I've tried to ignore her and not speak to her unless necessary. As much as I want to just have a normal converstaion to her about the news or anything besides this I've held out. 

While she swears to no affair, I'm unable to get into her phone if I wanted. She only uses that, my worklaptop is the pc that comes into the home. Her Iphone is password protect so I have no idea what the code is. I also dont know the password the Sprint account. Its in her name so I cant call in and find out either.

The only conversatoin we've had about anyone moving out was boiled down to this "neither of us has any money saved or available to attempt to move out." So it stopped there. If she moves out the kids start only seeing me half the week.


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## oviid (Sep 27, 2013)

I could have written your first post in reflection of my own life. I experienced this around 7 years into my marriage, not talk of divorce, but realizing that my lack of emotional support and disconnected way of not being there for her was a bad thing. Unfortunately I never made the change and things continued that way for years. Like you, by the time I saw what was happening it was too late. I made changes but there was nothing I could do.

I took the route people here talk about, monitoring computer etc. but never found anything. That was 7 years ago. Here I am now married 18 years and am divorcing. It sucks, especially when you have kids involved. This might sound cruel but I wish my marriage would have ended after 7 years instead of 18. The only real thing I an thankful for after the 7 year mark is my kids. 

Remember too it takes two to make a marriage work. Don't take all the blame and try to build up confidence in yourself. Remember you are still quite young and have so many years ahead of you. It might not seem like it now but there will come a time when you will be happy, all this will be just a memory and hopefully one you can learn from.

Don't beg, cry, plead for her to stay or try to provide any emotional support at this point. That might seem like the natural thing to do right now but it's not what will help you. If there's a chance in saving your marriage you need to be confident and present yourself that way. Fake the hell out of it if you have to.

I wish you the best of luck in this and remember you are not alone.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

1.) Don't move out
2.) The children don't move out
3.) When she leaves with the kids you need to engage your lawyer to make an emergency motion for the return and temp full custody of the children. When the time comes you will borrow the money to protect your children.
4.) A digital voice recorder. $50 or less at Walmart. Get one. Learn it. Carry it. Use it. She may try a bullscat DV charge. That digital recorder is a lifeline.
5.) Protect all legal documents and finances.

You have a sword. We all do. Put it away somewhere and don't fall on it. <--- Metaphor

The thing here is about best interests for your children. Yes? Children need, when they're healthy and functional, both parents equally. There's a term called "Status Quo". You leave her there with the kids or she takes them and dictates your time, you allow status quo to be set that she is the controller and Primary Caregiver. You should BOTH be EQUAL caregivers. Get my point?

She doesn't want to put you or the kids first? Offer her the freedom to go find herself. 

Oh yeah, don't use the term visitation or custody. We visit inmates who are in the custody of the prison system. We parent children. It's Parenting Time and a Parenting Schedule.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

It doesn't take courage for your wife to destroy your family for no reason, it takes cowardice.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

oviid said:


> I could have written your first post in reflection of my own life. I experienced this around 7 years into my marriage, not talk of divorce, but realizing that my lack of emotional support and disconnected way of not being there for her was a bad thing. Unfortunately I never made the change and things continued that way for years. Like you, by the time I saw what was happening it was too late. I made changes but there was nothing I could do.
> 
> I took the route people here talk about, monitoring computer etc. but never found anything. That was 7 years ago. Here I am now married 18 years and am divorcing. It sucks, especially when you have kids involved. This might sound cruel but I wish my marriage would have ended after 7 years instead of 18. The only real thing I an thankful for after the 7 year mark is my kids.
> 
> ...


Hi Oviid, 
Its very sad to hear that your story is alot like mine, unfortunately drawn out over a longer period. Like you say, if there are any positives in this terrible outcome, its that I'm still young enough to move on. One of my fears from this is that I'll never find another person to share myself with to the degree that I did my wife. When we first met it was just off the charts fantastic. We were each others firsts when it came to sex, which was so perfect. we had both held out til we were 17/18 for the "right" person.

I see the dont beg, be confident mentioned here ALOT. I've tried to do that this week, and i'm doing OK. No begging or pleading, just what I would consider normal conversation after someone drops something like that into your life while you just trying to say hi over lunch and eat your burger. 

Its funny that contradicts itself in my mind. My wife wanted more emotion, know that I care. I think pleading, begging, crying would show that more then the ef it attitude. She did catch me in a moment of weakness sitting by my daughter crying while she asked me why I was sad. She quickly turned around and stormed off.

I'll make it work, for the kids. Show them that I'm happy and they have no reason to not be either.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

wilderness said:


> It doesn't take courage for your wife to destroy your family for no reason, it takes cowardice.


Wilderness -
Your probably right, and I'm blinded by me still having feelings for this person. I cant imagine I was really that bad for her to be so unhappy to want to leave. Sure I'm like most men out there, who emotionally may not connect to the level women would prefer, Idk. But I would never swear at her, let alone rarely raise my voice. I wasn't abusive, I wouldn't lay a hand on her.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> Wilderness -
> Your probably right, and I'm blinded by me still having feelings for this person. I cant imagine I was really that bad for her to be so unhappy to want to leave. Sure I'm like most men out there, who emotionally may not connect to the level women would prefer, Idk. But I would never swear at her, let alone rarely raise my voice. I wasn't abusive, I wouldn't lay a hand on her.


Whatever you do, don't move out of the house.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Malpheous said:


> 1.) Don't move out
> 2.) The children don't move out
> 3.) When she leaves with the kids you need to engage your lawyer to make an emergency motion for the return and temp full custody of the children. When the time comes you will borrow the money to protect your children.
> 4.) A digital voice recorder. $50 or less at Walmart. Get one. Learn it. Carry it. Use it. She may try a bullscat DV charge. That digital recorder is a lifeline.
> ...


I still feel like there is a amicable respect level between us when it comes to parenting. We both want whats best which I feel is a whole home. She thinks its being able to show the kids a happy relationship. Most of which is probalby just her reasons to not feel as wrong about this. Would I love to have complete "parenting time" with them, I would. Do I believe that there mother is extrememly important to there development, yes. Christ this sucks.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

wilderness said:


> Whatever you do, don't move out of the house.


Noted, neither of us can afford or current home alone. However, I'll force her to make the "first move" She wanted this, she can go. I'll likely need to move shortly after anyways.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> I still feel like there is a amicable respect level between us when it comes to parenting. We both want whats best which I feel is a whole home. She thinks its being able to show the kids a happy relationship. Most of which is probalby just her reasons to not feel as wrong about this. Would I love to have complete "parenting time" with them, I would. Do I believe that there mother is extrememly important to there development, yes. Christ this sucks.


You want what's best for the kids, your wife doesn't. That's the problem. As to showing kids a happy relationship, the easy and far less painful answer is to work on your marriage.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

wilderness said:


> You want what's best for the kids, your wife doesn't. That's the problem. As to showing kids a happy relationship, the easy and far less painful answer is to work on your marriage.


I asked her this today. Wouldn't it be easier to rectify what we have for the kids rather then end it. I was greeted with the " we've grown apart, we dont have the same interests anymore, were not the same people we were when we married and made a vow to spend the rest of our lifes together. SO on so fourth.

I appreciate everyones advice. Here on out I'm heading this thing straight on with a smile on my face, chin up. I'm sure when this all starts to set in it'll be a different story but for now I feel pretty numb to it, whether thats good or bad, we'll find out.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Read Bagdon's thread here.

Since your wife no longer loves you, there is no place that your relationship can go but up. Don't let her catch you looking glum anymore. Are you in shape? Run, lift weights. Make sure your sex ranking goes up.

You don't have to be sullen or bitter. Be normal. Just don't be chatty. Discuss day to day stuff in a pleasant natural manner.

Start doing stuff for yourself.

You are certain that she is not cheating because she has no time to do it, correct?

How did your wife ruin your family finances?


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> Hey RSF - I decided to read through your post last night as it was next to mine. What I wanted to ask is how do you cope/accept all of this while still living with her? I cant seem to make it feel truly real to me at the moment, since I still see her daily and we are in general cordial to eachother. No hatred, while I do not agree nor accept what she wants. Her belief is we'll both be happier with people that love each one of us more when we find them. This must make it easier for her to push on me, that there is better out there.
> 
> I badly want this to somehow come to a point where she decided to try and reconcile so I dont have it in me to tell her that one of us has to move right now. Nor do I want to miss time with my kids, once someone moves out, so do the kids(split custody) of course.
> 
> ...


Oh brother, I struggle everyday tremendously to get through this. It's almost impossible, but you have to stay strong no matter what. I slip all the time, and I tried the sex thing and she told me it will never happen again. That was crushing for me. Learn from my mistake and don't engage in any type of physical contact unless she initiates it. I'm not an expert, I've only made it this far because of the support I get on here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Your asking her to work it out for the kids and things like that are useless conversation to her right now. She isn’t listening and its making you look weak. The grown apart line is just another of the generalities and mean nothing really,its more deflection. 

You know her position, she knows yours. You trying to convince her otherwise will only reinforce in her mind her position. I would encourage you to not wait for her to make moves at this point. If neither of you can afford your home alone, start talking to her about putting it on the market. This is your life and she doesn’t want to be apart of it any longer. The more you push yourself forward, taking control of your life the better off you will be in the long run and maybe once hard decisions start being made quickly she will start to look at what is really going and rethink her outlook. 

The more tolerant of it the longer she will just ease her life away slowly from you. Your instinct will be to delay, let her make moves. She wont make moves and it will drag out. Not till something else catches her eye if she doesn’t have that already. Putting a happy “public face” on for the sake of kids wont last long. That will turn to resentment. Your children are young enough that if you divorce now they will never remember it. 

It sucks all the way around, YES.


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

honcho said:


> Your asking her to work it out for the kids and things like that are useless conversation to her right now. She isn’t listening and its making you look weak. The grown apart line is just another of the generalities and mean nothing really,its more deflection.
> 
> You know her position, she knows yours. You trying to convince her otherwise will only reinforce in her mind her position. I would encourage you to not wait for her to make moves at this point. If neither of you can afford your home alone, start talking to her about putting it on the market. This is your life and she doesn’t want to be apart of it any longer. The more you push yourself forward, taking control of your life the better off you will be in the long run and maybe once hard decisions start being made quickly she will start to look at what is really going and rethink her outlook.
> 
> ...


Honcho, you're so right it does suck. If you can't afford the house then sell it, don't go into debt because of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

I agree with Honcho.

She's either in or out. She's telling you she wants out. 

You can't nice her back. Why would you want to anyway when her words and actions signal that she wants out. Give her what she wants. 

Stop trying to save a sinking ship by trying to patch a hole when the water is already up to your neck and pouring in.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> You are certain that she is not cheating because she has no time to do it, correct?
> 
> How did your wife ruin your family finances?


I cant be 100% certain about this. I like to think I am. She has poor spending habits and thinks of herself before the family when it comes to money. We bought a home just after we married and 6 months in she lost her job. She complained of being unhappy and not being able to sit at home all day. So on the weekends she would be out with her friends at the bars/clubs drinking because she felt that it was only deserved. She need to get out the house. 

We argued, I'm a push over, and she was spending money that could have went to the mortgage on dumb S. Her spending habits CLothes/makeup/drinks with friends have never allowed us to recoup. She'll take money out and we'll pay hundreds of dollars in OD fees every single pay period. Its almost gauranteed that We'll pay an OD fee per pay period.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Honcho, what you said feels spot on. Only reaffirmed by Pictureless and RSF's posts. Yesterday a highschool friend offered my a place to stay in him and his fiance's home. His fiance went through alot of what I'm dealing with, especially living with the STX while they figured things out. She hated it and feels for my situation. However, I dont want to be the one to move out(we rent a home). went through foreclosure 2 years ago now on our own home.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

knowfiguy, 
I am an expert at this and listen to me. I went through it and came out on the other side a different man. Generally it is rare that there isnt someone else or she isnt thinking about it. But that is ok and keep it in the back of your mind. Certainly be careful of your money and things for now. One thing I couldnt believe but it is true is you need to stay an "Alpha Male" its true, believe me. The key to that is that you are stronger and present that you can survive without her. If you feel you cant just act it. You also need to take a hard look to see if you really do want the marriage yourself and think about that. After a while you will see that maybe it wasnt right but more importantly is the kids. Stay close to them. You do need to protect them from her bad decisions. Remember women require attention from men, In and out of marriage and I believe this is natural. In your situation you need to ride a fine line and hold the alpha male presentation while demonstrating strength and a small degree of attention to her. If you want her back that is key. If you dont then move on and believe me that can be a very liberating feeling. just protect the kids if she is doing something stupid. Whatever you do dont tear up and beg or anything like that because women respond poorly to that. If it ends it ends but you will have your dignity too which you will be glad for later


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

bcc said:


> knowfiguy,
> I am an expert at this and listen to me. I went through it and came out on the other side a different man. Generally it is rare that there isnt someone else or she isnt thinking about it. But that is ok and keep it in the back of your mind. Certainly be careful of your money and things for now. One thing I couldnt believe but it is true is you need to stay an "Alpha Male" its true, believe me. The key to that is that you are stronger and present that you can survive without her. If you feel you cant just act it. You also need to take a hard look to see if you really do want the marriage yourself and think about that. After a while you will see that maybe it wasnt right but more importantly is the kids. Stay close to them. You do need to protect them from her bad decisions. Remember women require attention from men, In and out of marriage and I believe this is natural. In your situation you need to ride a fine line and hold the alpha male presentation while demonstrating strength and a small degree of attention to her. If you want her back that is key. If you dont then move on and believe me that can be a very liberating feeling. just protect the kids if she is doing something stupid. Whatever you do dont tear up and beg or anything like that because women respond poorly to that. If it ends it ends but you will have your dignity too which you will be glad for later


Hi bcc. 

I probably should have read this reply 10 minutes ago. I cake home to an empty house just a few minutes ago. Kids are at grandmas and stbx is at a friends. I gave her my debit card as she needed gas today. Ok fine. Turns out she got dinner with a friend gas bought makeup all on my dime. This upset me. You want to leave me? It's not business as usual dammit. So I come home a little pissed and the loneliness ams silence just broke me down. I sent her a text stating just that. 

I broke down and showed weakness. Obviusoly I think of all the things I can maybe do now without marriage but there also scary. But I think back to when we first meet and dated she was so perfect I would drive through blizzards in mn just to see her even for just an hour. I've been good the last three days. Really no tears but man right now I just can't take it. I feel so broke and lonely. This is going to be my life going forward. Empty homes on days there are no kids. Sleeping by myself. Nobody to kiss goodnight. Or good morning. This is by far the hardest moment since she first told me of her intentions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You will have weak moments and we have all felt like you do at this moment. Don’t dwell on life alone or the empty house etc. You are feeling sorry for yourself and its natural. So turn off your phone, do not text or call her anymore tonight. Be an emotional wreck so to speak and tomorrow look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that you didn’t deserve any of this and how dare she do it to you.

Your life is precious, if she doesn’t want to be a part of it, its her loss, not yours! Act and show it. It takes time but you will realize she isn’t the prize, you are. She needs to earn her way back to you, not the other way around. Tonight you don’t see it that way but you will, you will just have to believe us who were where you are at already. Its gonna suck for awhile. Its up to you how long it hurts.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

K Guy,

Again, listen to Honcho. And BCC.

When mine dumped me five days before Christmas I felt just like you. Now I realize that I was broke and lonely ONLY on the day she left. The very next day was the beginning of a better life without her.

It's true. You just have to believe it.

I'll second any and all notions about the Red Pill. Get Alpha. Stay that way. It pains me to admit how ignorant I was about Game, the feminine imperative, hypergamy, subjective truths, rationalization, etc. 

Go your own way and start now. Do what you want whenever you want with whomever you want. Lift weights! I can't tell you how much it's helping me. Every night I lay down sore and tired and fall right to sleep. Summer is just around the corner! I can't wait.

I wasn't dumped, I was given a time machine back to my Alpha youth. Back then I'd go to work, then work out, and then spend my free time pursuing my other interests. That's when I was dating everyone but stupidly choose her. Next time I'll do better! 

Right now I can drop everything without notice and do whatever wherever. You can't buy that kind of freedom!


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

Knowfiguy, 
Please make it the last time you show weakness. Now it is time to appear to be fine. I mean think about it. Females grow up watching fairy tales about how a prince comes and saves them. They spend billions on beauty products every year. How much do men spend? They want to be more attractive . Its all about them. Initially they want your attention for the catch but after that they want a tough male who doesn't take any B.S. but who still wants to show affection. If your too nice they wont like it. Now it is time for you to show your strength. You must let her see you now all spiffed up and looking good, show her your your own man. Shoulders back and make sure she sees you having a good time. I hate to say it but if you can rebound and see someone for a while , do so and make sure she knows you are. I swear to you this works as sick as it sounds. We are human beings and the force to mate is a primal instinct, women fear that the male they had children with would be with another female. She had kids with you, that means she carried your children for 9 months each. That is a lot of time and pregnancy isn't easy so she invested her life into you, that never goes away. I was on the verge of suicide because she left over a year ago and I did just what im telling you and she is home with me now and my situation was even worse. But never , never show weakness as much as you want too, it backfires everytime because women want strong men mentally, physically and emotionally. Its in their nature, that's why they always say women like the "bad boy". Even stop communicating for a while, just pick up the kids or whatever. Don't be mean to her either , just show that you are fine and can live without her


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

I've got nothing else to try but sticking to the red pull theory. I had my moment of purely omtionally overwhelmed. Trying to process so many things in just a few minutes time. Her goes nothing.

Btw thank you guys. I was thinking how lost AMD bottled up id be without all of your experience and advice as well as encouragement. Quite powerful.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I hope you go your debit card back. If it was me, I would call the bank and get a new debit card with your name on it only. If she can't budget money, buy giving her your debit card is like handing a can of gasoline to an arsonist.

Next thing to do is go to Grandma's house and get your kids. Then pull yourself up by the bootstraps and let her know that if she ain't happy, then move because you have a life too and she's becoming less and less of it and you don't need her there to make it worse. She wants out? then make her leave.

Put the pressure on her. She wants this not you and if she wants to spread her wings then she needs a new place to do that.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Getting the card back shortly. We've kinda stepped around the living situation as far of moving out goes. So I told her this needs to happen asap. Save up enough to move and go. I'm not leaving first. And getting her evicted because all that does is put my kids out of a roof while with there mother.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Should note she cannot afford rent here by herself. So the second I stop paying half rent this place is toast.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Hey kg, I see you've gotten good advice from a lot of men, so I thought I'd give you a woman's perspective on what's going on here, even though a few men will probably poo poo it.

When guys don't bother to pay much attention to us or show us we are important, we assume its because we're not important. The obvious question from the guy is why didn't you say anything. Some women do their men ignore them until they detach and leave, then said men can't understand why they can't simply make changes and all of a sudden she'll be interested again. Sometimes women don't communicate (their fault), but sometimes its because we think that you would show us we're important if we were, so if we have to ask for it then its not freely given. Men seem to have no trouble comprehending this where sex is concerned; how many men are on here complaining that their wife never initiates so they feel unwanted? The idea of course is that if they have to ask its only there to shut them up. Then they detach, eventually wife figures this out and tries, but hubby is detached after so much rejection. Of course the men here are sympathetic because he's been rejected, but its a nice double standard because the same level of understanding isn't forthcoming for women where neglect is concerned. She's expected to be receptive and if she's not she must have someone else. 

As for your actions now, I agree you must not show emotional weakness because that's extremely unattractive. Also, if you're going to split up you should not be providing her with discretionary spending. Remain aloof but cordial, and pursue a divorce. Tell her, if you haven't, that you're sorry you didn't make clear how important she is to you but if this is how she feels you'll be moving on. Maybe she'll re-evaluate, and if not you'll improve for the next woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Hello lifestooshort,

Its really nice to hear this from a women's perspective. If only this was purely understood concept. Because I've felt the unwanted feeling of rejection before when it comes to sex. And I can understand if I flipped that around to her emotions how it affects her. 

Its seems odd that all she wanted from me was to share emotions and be open. But now doing that is actually counter productive. She told me today part of her wants divorce and part wants to just separate and see how people feel. See if feelings change. She is worried of making the wrong choice. 

Just going to follow everyone's advice and be confident in myself. I'm going to tell her today what You listed in the last paragraph. 

Again its really great to hear from a women's point of view. 

Btw do you agree with the theory that if I look like I'm moving on and actually go on a date or two that this will cause her to realize what may be gone forever? I personally would feel like if my separated wife started dating that she has completely moved on and she could possibly love me the way I thought. If she was out with other men.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It could, women are very competitive with one another. But moving on doesn't necessarily mean you have to date right away; in fact, its kinda crappy to the new woman if you go out with her in hopes it'll make you wife/ex wife want you back. Moving on only means that you aren't begging/ pining for her; it means that you're pursuing your own life without her. Go to the gym, do whatever it is you like to do. Be a great dad. Be nice to her just like you'd be nice to a neighbor. The knowledge that you acknowledge what you effed up but can still have a fulfilling life without her if that's what she wants might make her think twice. You can't change the past, you can only move forward; but what you DON'T do is let her jerk you around. She's either in or out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Thank you. I dont have it in me to date anyhow right now. Just an interesting concept. 

We were talking about boundaries and of course me being a man asked about sex between us while are still in the same home. She said it would mess with her emotions too much. But I was completely welcome to go find it elsewhere if I needed it. Obviously thats not my plans or intentions I was just caught off guard by that response. 

In my mind it meant she just wanted to feel like she was truly letting me go or posturing. Maybe giving her a physical tangible reason that could be used for more failure on my end to end the marriage. Idk. Its easy to tell people that your jackass husband started sleeping round weeks after your separation and thats why you divorced.


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> Thank you. I dont have it in me to date anyhow right now. Just an interesting concept.
> 
> We were talking about boundaries and of course me being a man asked about sex between us while are still in the same home. She said it would mess with her emotions too much. But I was completely welcome to go find it elsewhere if I needed it. Obviously thats not my plans or intentions I was just caught off guard by that response.
> 
> In my mind it meant she just wanted to feel like she was truly letting me go or posturing. Maybe giving her a physical tangible reason that could be used for more failure on my end to end the marriage. Idk. Its easy to tell people that your jackass husband started sleeping round weeks after your separation and thats why you divorced.


So true
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

K Guy,

We don't read minds. This is all on her! If something is the matter, REAL women open their mouths and tell you. 

Schemers, cheaters, and users bail on their marriage...rather quickly too. How could they unless they were never in it in the first place.

Do yourself a favor...give her the "space" SHE wants and divorce her before she poo poos on you again.

She's in or she's out.


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## SteveK (Mar 15, 2014)

wilderness said:


> It doesn't take courage for your wife to destroy your family for no reason, it takes cowardice.


I agree so much with this comment. My story is on my Post Married 28 years and wife left me for tour guide. I am just telling you so I don't have to rewrite the story.

I still remember the day we left. We made love Saturday and Sunday. Then on Monday and Tuesday she was with her Emotional Affair Partner. I believe though that it crossed the line on Monday, because we argued a little on Tuesday night after I told her I knew she was with him (He comes here from another country). We calmed down and she rejected my Sexual advances. She would not even let me touch her below which she never denied me in 30 years. We cuddled all night, she kissed me in the morning and said she loved me, left and never came home. Worst part it was two days before Valentines day and two weeks before her birthday!!
I am doing OK, but sometimes I feel dead inside!!


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Wow steve. Hearing your story makes me at least have some comfort that I can get closure eventually.


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> Wow steve. Hearing your story makes me at least have some comfort that I can get closure eventually.


K guy, how's it going today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

One day at a time right RSF. Just got home after being out running errands with the kids and the wife is home getting ready for a bday party tonight. I took life2shorts advice and made my closing argument I guess you could call it.

Just let her know I was sorry for not letting her I cared as much as I did when I had the time. Let her know if thats what she wants then ok.

I want to support her and get her out of the house sooner rather then later. I feel like if she sees our family from the outside. Having to live away from the kids and I for half the week. Maybe she will come to her senses. If not then I'll work my ass off to get in a position that when it comes to school enrollment that living with me for school is a no brainer. Plan a and plan b.


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> One day at a time right RSF. Just got home after being out running errands with the kids and the wife is home getting ready for a bday party tonight. I took life2shorts advice and made my closing argument I guess you could call it.
> 
> Just let her know I was sorry for not letting her I cared as much as I did when I had the time. Let her know if thats what she wants then ok.
> 
> I want to support her and get her out of the house sooner rather then later. I feel like if she sees our family from the outside. Having to live away from the kids and I for half the week. Maybe she will come to her senses. If not then I'll work my ass off to get in a position that when it comes to school enrollment that living with me for school is a no brainer. Plan a and plan b.


That's all we can do brother, one day at a time. It's definitely not easy. I went to church today looking for guidance. Asking to be pointed in the right direction, it felt good. Came across the reverend who prayed with me. Asked me to ask her to come see him, he wants to talk to her. I'm still debating if I should ask her. I went there for me. I don't want to look weak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> I took life2shorts advice and made my closing argument I guess you could call it.
> 
> Just let her know I was sorry for not letting her I cared as much as I did when I had the time. Let her know if thats what she wants then ok.


What did she say? 

When men attempt to talk to women emotionally with feminine talking points women only get confused. It's like they're talking with their girlfriends.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> What did she say?
> 
> When men attempt to talk to women emotionally with feminine talking points women only get confused. It's like they're talking with their girlfriends.



I told him to tell her that he was sorry he didn't do a better job letting her know how important she was but if this was what she wanted he'd be moving on with his life. And I told him not to let her jerk him around, because either she's in or out. No getting her "space" and thinking things over; translation: she wants him as plan B.

Maybe its me but I don't think that's particularly feminine  
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I told him to tell her that he was sorry he didn't do a better job letting her know how important she was but if this was what she wanted he'd be moving on with his life. And I told him not to let her jerk him around, because either she's in or out. No getting her "space" and thinking things over; translation: she wants him as plan B.
> 
> Maybe its me but I don't think that's particularly feminine
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I asked him what was his wife's reply.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Maybe its me but I don't think that's particularly feminine
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She turds all over him and he says to her I'm sorry you don't feel important?

K Guy, did she turd on you again?

You shouldn't have engaged again. Every time you do it gives her another chance to reject you. Your message should be, "sorry you feel that way." I got other options besides you.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

RSFWID said:


> That's all we can do brother, one day at a time. It's definitely not easy. I went to church today looking for guidance. Asking to be pointed in the right direction, it felt good. Came across the reverend who prayed with me. Asked me to ask her to come see him, he wants to talk to her. I'm still debating if I should ask her. I went there for me. I don't want to look weak.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I saw that in your post. Its good to have something you can turn to that you believe in.as far as your wife goes thats a tough question to answer. I personally would try to fit it into a conversation that she initiates.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> I asked him what was his wife's reply.


I thought you meant me. Sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> She turds all over him and he says to her I'm sorry you don't feel important?
> 
> K Guy, did she turd on you again?
> 
> You shouldn't have engaged again. Every time you do it gives her another chance to reject you. Your message should be, "sorry you feel that way." I got other options besides you.


I do appreciate both of your inputs on this. Whether or not you agree its important for me to see this in different views. This time around though it didn't yield any type of result. she already seemed angry with me for whatever reason. Considering I hadn't seen her since yesterday morning before work. But she stood there looked at me and said "OK". 

Even if this didnt get her to acknowledge me any real fashion, I feel it was worth it for my sake to do it. I feel good about it, and maybe it'll be something for her to chew on. That yes, I'm not plan B, I'm plan A and a damn good one. Whether that be for her today or some other women down the road. Going through this makes you really think about life, and the people you let into it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> She turds all over him and he says to her I'm sorry you don't feel important?
> 
> K Guy, did she turd on you again?
> 
> You shouldn't have engaged again. Every time you do it gives her another chance to reject you. Your message should be, "sorry you feel that way." I got other options besides you.




His goal is to get her back; telling her to f#ck off isn't productive. And he's acknowledged he did a poor job of showing her she mattered to him; acknowledging that to her demonstrates he's owning his part. The part about him moving on if that's the way she wants it essentially is disengaging and showing strength.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> I do appreciate both of your inputs on this. Whether or not you agree its important for me to see this in different views. This time around though it didn't yield any type of result. she already seemed angry with me for whatever reason. Considering I hadn't seen her since yesterday morning before work. But she stood there looked at me and said "OK".
> 
> Even if this didnt get her to acknowledge me any real fashion, I feel it was worth it for my sake to do it. I feel good about it, and maybe it'll be something for her to chew on. That yes, I'm not plan B, I'm plan A and a damn good one. Whether that be for her today or some other women down the road. Going through this makes you really think about life, and the people you let into it.




I suspect she's angry precisely because you've refused to be plan B and taken control away from her. As long as you're waiting for her to decide she controls you; now she can stew over the fact that she doesn't. The bonus is that if she changes her mind and you still want her back you can set your own rules for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> I saw that in your post. Its good to have something you can turn to that you believe in.as far as your wife goes thats a tough question to answer. I personally would try to fit it into a conversation that she initiates.


Im tired of all of this I really feel likes disappearing for a long while and have come look for me. If she does then she cares, if she doesn't, what the he??, I have nothing to lose. I know I'm tired of going out of my way to appease her. Right now it's about me and how I feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Whether you opened up enough, made her feel special enough…the whole lack of communication is a two way street. Men and women talk different languages. Women show love one way, men show it in other ways you both have to be willing to see it and hear it. 

This isn’t all on you, she said she wanted more affection, then ackowleged you gave her more but now its too late. Its excuses. Maybe you couldn’t give enough to meet her wants, maybe she has unrealistic expectations, maybe it wasn’t enough. She has to be receptive to it also. It’s a two way street.

She is more posturing at this point giving you permission to have sex with someone else. If you do, you are the cheater and you are the bad guy and she has her excuse to file or she is doing it herself currently and that way it evens out. Either way your head isn’t in a position to pursue that right now honestly. Its just going to further complicate a mess.

I wouldn’t be too apologetic at this point with anything. Right now all your doing is reaffirming in her head that she is right, that’s all she heard. There is a time and place for that but I also don’t think you have the full story yet either. Her spending habits, going out on weekends with friends to bars without you because she felt entitled, you have had other issues going on besides feeling affection in my opinion.

She wants a divorce, give her what she wants and focus on that. In the beginning she may even seem excited about talking about it till the hard decisions start to come. She may change her mind, she may not. You cant change the past, all you can do is learn from it and improve going forward.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

RSFWID said:


> Im tired of all of this I really feel likes disappearing for a long while and have come look for me. If she does then she cares, if she doesn't, what the he??, I have nothing to lose. I know I'm tired of going out of my way to appease her. Right now it's about me and how I feel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After apologizing to my wife for my failures as a husband and telling her that I'm going to move on if thats what she wants I feel a bit better atleast for the moment. It almost feels like the balls in her court. I made my 3 pointer to tie the game and own up to what I did but now its her shot. If she loves me, she stays. If she doesn't anymore then I'll move one. Sadly, sure but even over the years of the marriage anytime there was some issue and someone was suppose to change something to appease the other it always seemed to be me. Not now.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> His goal is to get her back; telling her to f#ck off isn't productive. And he's acknowledged he did a poor job of showing her she mattered to him; acknowledging that to her demonstrates he's owning his part. The part about him moving on if that's the way she wants it essentially is disengaging and showing strength.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's not telling her to bleep off. Kissing her butt when she's turding on him won't get her back. Is this how she shows him what he means to her?


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

honcho said:


> Whether you opened up enough, made her feel special enough…the whole lack of communication is a two way street. Men and women talk different languages. Women show love one way, men show it in other ways you both have to be willing to see it and hear it.
> 
> This isn’t all on you, she said she wanted more affection, then ackowleged you gave her more but now its too late. Its excuses. Maybe you couldn’t give enough to meet her wants, maybe she has unrealistic expectations, maybe it wasn’t enough. She has to be receptive to it also. It’s a two way street.
> 
> ...


Hey Honcho,

This is basically my plan now. Fake it til I make It I've heard around here a few times. A year ago we were having arguments because she would stay out all night and come home in the mornings after nights out with her friends. She would stay at her friends houses after drinking. Its fine if you do that here and there but it was a weekly deal. Less worried about the cheating factor, more pissed because we are both parents with 2 kids. Time to grow up and be home for the kids. she worked weekends so if she would go out after work and not come home the kids and I likely wouldn't see her until Sunday afternoon. If she isn't ready to mature and still needs to be 21 and put herself first then do it but I'm not going to let it be a burden on my and my two young childred. Dont get me wrong here she is a great mom so I dont want to make hre out to be this drug addicted crack ***** of a mother. 

I've made my last statment. If she wants to talk she will be the one reaching out to me. She is out tonight for a friends 30th bday and when she walked out said i'll be home tomorrow. I wanted to just say "F#(K you bye" but i've promised myself no texts while I'm laying in bed tonight. now that I've got both kids to bed.

My mother is behind me and willing to help me in any way. whether its a place to stay, or someone to help with the kids. And of all people my brother in law is totally blown away but whats going on and offered to help me cover rent so I could stay in our home when she moves out. 

On Friday, I'm going to head over to her parents house just to say bye maybe for the last time. We get along great and I consider them family whether or not I'm with the wife. There my kids grandparents and uncles forever. They were very sad when she told them about it so I just want to make sure that I'm able to go out on my terms on her side.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> He's not telling her to bleep off. Kissing her butt when she's turding on him won't get her back. Is this how she shows him what he means to her?



Interesting. So acknowledging his part one time and then telling her he's moving on is kissing her butt?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> Hey Honcho,
> 
> This is basically my plan now. Fake it til I make It I've heard around here a few times. A year ago we were having arguments because she would stay out all night and come home in the mornings after nights out with her friends. She would stay at her friends houses after drinking. Its fine if you do that here and there but it was a weekly deal. Less worried about the cheating factor, more pissed because we are both parents with 2 kids. Time to grow up and be home for the kids. she worked weekends so if she would go out after work and not come home the kids and I likely wouldn't see her until Sunday afternoon. If she isn't ready to mature and still needs to be 21 and put herself first then do it but I'm not going to let it be a burden on my and my two young childred. Dont get me wrong here she is a great mom so I dont want to make hre out to be this drug addicted crack ***** of a mother.
> 
> ...


Why fake anything? Get Alpha. Start now. You told her what's up now go forward from there. 

Forget the goodbye tour to the in-laws, your first trip should be to a lawyer. You have kids, protect them and your access to them.

You're home with the kids and she's out partying. You don't know who she is with because you are not there. And you're worrying about saying goodbye to the in-laws. When princess tells them she's done with you, you will be dropped by them quicker than the F bomb at a rap concert.

Do you wonder why we're trying to help you? If we didn't give a bleep (because we've been in your shoes) we'd be out trying to crash that party your wife is at.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

KG, 
Yes there is a fine line here, that's what I was talking about. Never say F**K off and always be "cool". If you get angry make sure you do it in a "cool" way. I am back with my wife after a nightmare from H*LL last year and I feel like im slipping into my old husband ways and I have to try to catch myself everyday to avoid that. Its hard. But when I was separated I realized I was a lousy husband . After being back together a year I feel like im becoming a lousy husband again and its easy to do so. If you can find my story, it must still be here , read it, it is long and you wont believe it but it may interest you. I was a real mess and now I am back to where I was before it started. Almost like it didn't happen. But after I got over wishing the end of my life, I planned and carried out a mission that got my wife back.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

I may not be doing all of these things right and I'm only 6 days removed from being told my wife wanted out. 

I want to make sure that I make things as easy as possible for my kids. Animosity between me and my in-laws, there grandparents, isn't what anyone needs.

I absolutely could have done more for my wife, likewise on her part I'm sure. She could have done things better as well. The more cordial and peaceful everyone one is the easier this will be for kids and parenting arrangements. The wife knows where I stand and I'll move one if thats the case.

I stay cool, I don't blow up on her. Not my personality. 

I was given a spot reward at work Friday of 1200 bucks. Part of me wants to give that to her to get her out of the house and into her own apartment. The faster I speed this up the faster we can get to an ultimate decision I feel.

Summers coming up. I may not be ready to date, but I can look and play a little. who knows. Lost my virginity to my wife when I was 17 so its something I've always thought about(just curiosity).


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

bcc said:


> KG,
> Yes there is a fine line here, that's what I was talking about. Never say F**K off and always be "cool". If you get angry make sure you do it in a "cool" way. I am back with my wife after a nightmare from H*LL last year and I feel like im slipping into my old husband ways and I have to try to catch myself everyday to avoid that. Its hard. But when I was separated I realized I was a lousy husband . After being back together a year I feel like im becoming a lousy husband again and its easy to do so. If you can find my story, it must still be here , read it, it is long and you wont believe it but it may interest you. I was a real mess and now I am back to where I was before it started. Almost like it didn't happen. But after I got over wishing the end of my life, I planned and carried out a mission that got my wife back.


Hey BCC, I read through a bit of your story. I'm glad to hear from you consider how it started. I'm glad you stuck it out for your kids. If your slipping back to your bad habits, think of how terrible you felt. You don't want to go down that road again.

Right now I feel like I have so much love to give, be it with my wife or a new gal some day. After this week, I just want to enjoy the time were given on earth and enjoy it with someone who cares about me. Its so easily taken away.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Do not give her the bonus money and don’t tell her about the bonus money. Your best investment right now would be to contact and hire an attorney and find our your legal rights and start protecting yourself. Each and every state the rules and laws vary so much. Start focusing on your game plan, not worrying about where she might live. It will sound harsh but she wants out that is her problem, not yours. 

You could very well give her the cash, she says she will start looking for a place either blow the money or use it for her own lawyer. You are still at the flashpoint and part of you is still in shock whether you believe it or not. If/when papers are filed or someone moves out the whole ball games changes and you will learn this. Everyone strives for amicable and real life it rarely happens. You have a good relationship with the in-laws, this week isn’t the week to do goodbyes. Its too emotional of a time and you would be better served to figure out a plan and you need a little distance so you can start to look at your situation rationally instead of emotionally. 

The ball isn’t in her court, its in yours. The more real you make this the more she will be forced to examine her life and just what is going on. Then she will have a choice to make.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

*Re: Re: Too Little too Late... Wife says*



honcho said:


> Do not give her the bonus money and don’t tell her about the bonus money. Your best investment right now would be to contact and hire an attorney and find our your legal rights and start protecting yourself. Each and every state the rules and laws vary so much. Start focusing on your game plan, not worrying about where she might live. It will sound harsh but she wants out that is her problem, not yours.
> 
> You could very well give her the cash, she says she will start looking for a place either blow the money or use it for her own lawyer. You are still at the flashpoint and part of you is still in shock whether you believe it or not. If/when papers are filed or someone moves out the whole ball games changes and you will learn this. Everyone strives for amicable and real life it rarely happens. You have a good relationship with the in-laws, this week isn’t the week to do goodbyes. Its too emotional of a time and you would be better served to figure out a plan and you need a little distance so you can start to look at your situation rationally instead of emotionally.
> 
> The ball isn’t in her court, its in yours. The more real you make this the more she will be forced to examine her life and just what is going on. Then she will have a choice to make.


Hi honcho.

Last night I had a good talk with my brother in law. And he really helped me see through some of the fog. Like ive said in previous posts he so blown away by her actions considering the how this will affect the kids.

All this week I operated under the feeling that I deserved this because I failed her. Not anymore more. He reiterated just how selfish she is being when she talks about being tired me putting me first. And the kids too. I personally dont get this because while she may try to out everyone else first she still took plenty of time to do her own things.

But I showed him what she's said to me. Like how or personality's have changed and interest. She wants to go out with friends, be out of the house, see live music, movies, and just "live" her life. She only gets one. Thats basically word for word. Oh and that I'm content sitting at home all the time. 

Who the F is going to watch the kids if we're all our doing these things all the time? My staying home enables her to go and do whatever she wants whenever she wants. Sure I'd like to go some of these things at times but once I had my first child my life changed so much. I put my kids first no matter what.

Isn't that what you sign up for when you do the married with children life? Especially when there so young. Once they get older the leeway begins to start doing that stuff more.

I'm a fantastic father. A good guy. Good provider with a good paying job and plenty of room for career growth still only being 26. I dont drink I'm not abusive. I dont go out to bars or clubs putting myself in poor situations. I'm faithful and just a dedicated family man.
After the emotions were still fresh I recorded a 4 minute memo on my phone covering these points and I want to tell her these today. 

The main poin being that I want to tell her those things and that I
Know I dont deserve this at all. I thought I did and now I'm positive I dont. I'm really ready to push her to the brink and if she wants to come back it's on my terms.


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> Hi honcho.
> 
> Last night I had a good talk with my brother in law. And he really helped me see through some of the fog. Like ive said in previous posts he so blown away by her actions considering the how this will affect the kids.
> 
> ...


Stay strong and keep pushing for your children, they are what's important. Always be a father to your children no matter what or who, I've made some bad choices in that area. You can never get the time you missed being with them, back. If having a social life is more important then her own children, than screw her. Those babies are innocent and deserve to have both parents available.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

One other thing from last night. When she told me her intentions I couldn't help but think I had ruined the marriage because of what I did. I remember her telling me she could of done things better too. I asked her what and the ONLY thing she had to say was be less selfish and stick around for mine and the kids happiness. Last night when I thought of this accompanied with the above post set me off into pure anger. Saying its a personality trait of mine called parenting that she doesn't like anymore. Wanting to be home. Really I needed to be home. She wasn't about to ignore her friends. She is so adamant through out her relationship that she can't just sit at home shell go nuts. To hell with that notion. Idk how she plans to 'live life' since its the only she has when she is a single parent.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

knowfiguy said:


> ...She has poor spending habits and thinks of herself before the family when it comes to money. We bought a home just after we married and 6 months in she lost her job. She complained of being unhappy and not being able to sit at home all day. So on the weekends she would be out with her friends at the bars/clubs drinking because she felt that it was only deserved. She need to get out the house.
> 
> We argued, I'm a push over, and she was spending money that could have went to the mortgage on dumb S. Her spending habits CLothes/makeup/drinks with friends have never allowed us to recoup. She'll take money out and we'll pay hundreds of dollars in OD fees every single pay period. Its almost gauranteed that We'll pay an OD fee per pay period.





knowfiguy said:


> ...A year ago we were having arguments because she would stay out all night and come home in the mornings after nights out with her friends. She would stay at her friends houses after drinking. Its fine if you do that here and there but it was a weekly deal. Less worried about the cheating factor, more pissed because we are both parents with 2 kids. Time to grow up and be home for the kids. she worked weekends so if she would go out after work and not come home the kids and I likely wouldn't see her until Sunday afternoon.....


Dude....she's a selfish and spoiled party girl. Don't beat yourself up for "not doing enough"...she's the one with the issue.

You have been the enabler, permitting your wife to spend recklessly and abandon her responsibilities. I would concentrate on getting a lawyer and full custody...that will give your wife the freedom she wants so bad.

Now she says she's not sure if she wants to divorce or just separate? Make it real easy...YOU file for divorce. She just wants you to keep paying for her lifestyle...she wants you for "backup", a plan-B if things don't work out so well...but she doesn't really want or love you.

You need to read NMMNG and the MMSL, pull a 180 and file. Seriously, for your kids sake, go for full custody and give her visitation. If you don't, she will use your kids like pawns-in-chess, and try to milk as much money as possible from you, which will only be spent on her partying, not your kids.

She wants out? No more giving her your debit card, no money...she can get a job. Seriously dude, stop funding her.

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Read that.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Don't give her another penny. I would also hire someone to follow her and confirm she is cheating. My guess is that she is.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

Hi KG,
I have to thank you too. After I wrote my last post to you i realized I have to step it up a bit so she went to bed and after the kids fell asleep I woke her up and it was difficult (she didnt want to get up) and fooled around. Before, if she wouldnt get up I would have left her and felt sorry for myself. Now I was alpha and told her to get up!!!! This morning she was very happy. These are the things I learned. You are right, I wont let myself slip into the old ways but you have to force yourself sometimes. It sounds like your doing the right thing. The only thing I did was present that I was doing awesome and I have to be honest, I did get a girlfriend way to fast, not that she didnt get a boyfriend and GF and I would text each other and flirt. Well when my wife saw my phone she read the text and it drove her crazy, she became jealous. I honestly think that helped me get her back. I have to say that it is a game, i suppose thats why they call it the mating game?


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

I feel Like I should hire someone just to confirm if its going on. 

Bcc keep it up. Today when she finally got home maybe 30 minutes ago she came in without her wedding ring on. I'm just irrate right now. She knows that would piss me off so I'm sire thats part of the reason. I wouldnt stop wearing my ring til we were no longer married. I know I'm suppose to just not give a flying ef and move on but thats easier said then done. I can't control my emotions and feelings. To a degree I can but still.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Start spying on her. Read her emails, text messages, check the phone bills, etc…I would also put a VAR in her car. When you catch her cheating, expose it to everyone you know, everyone she knows, and everyone OM knows.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Chill about the ring. It is not about you. It is about her. The ring signifies ownership sometimes. Could be a way for her to start seeing herself as her own person, not owned by you as a man. It can be a good thing. When she puts it back on, if she ever does, that sense of identity as her own person will be good. You need that too. So chill out about it.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Five pages long and nobody has figured out that there's a 95 percent chance that knowfiguy's wife has a boyfriend? Unbelievable. Edit: After posting I just noticed wilderness figured it out. Finally someone else has a clue.

Knowfiguy, you can beat yourself up all you want about what you did or didn't do in your marriage, but I'll tell you your number one mistake. It's that you let your wife go out regularly partying like she's a single girl. 

What do you think occurs when she's out drinking and partying? She's getting hit on by players constantly. That tends to erode any boundaries she might have. It's exciting stuff for a married woman to get attention from young, horny and attractive guys, and when you add alchohol and maybe dancing to the mix, it becomes lethal to a marriage. 

She likes it, and is proving it by neglecting her parenting duties to get out there and live the single girl lifestyle. Sorry but your wife is a terrible mom and is deeply in what's called the "fog."

Time for you to quietly investigate and figure out who this POSOM (piece of sh1t other man) is so you at least know the extent of your wife's behavior. It might be too late to get her back but at least you'll know what the situation is and then you can file for divorce and get control of this back into your hands. 

Right now you're floundering, racking your brain and beating yourself up over your failures as a husband. The way I see it, your wife is the one to blame here, for her single girl behavior and poor parenting.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

I can tell anyone on her that if its cheating I'm not going to worry about trying t pull her out of the fog. Call me old fashion but the second any women were to cheat on me I could never want them back. It would never be the same. 

Arendt- your probably right. I'll chill out about that. 

Now I need to know. I have to find out if she's fooling around. Then If its the case I put closure on it. Maybe start getting some sleep again.

Thanks everyone. Having you all as a sounding board has been invaluable.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

VAR her car
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

knowfiguy said:


> I can tell anyone on her that if its cheating I'm not going to worry about trying t pull her out of the fog. Call me old fashion but the second any women were to cheat on me I could never want them back. It would never be the same.
> 
> Arendt- your probably right. I'll chill out about that.
> 
> ...


Check the phone records. Look for lots of phone calls to one number. Same with texts. I'll bet she keeps her phone glued to her. Maybe even sleeps with it. Try to get hold of her phone without her knowing and look at the content of the texts, if they're not deleted. But by all means look at the text records on the phone bill. Also check emails. Look for secret email accounts. Do all of this quietly. Be James Bond.

Also velcro a VAR (voice-activated recorder) under her car seat. There's a poster here named weightlifter who's the resident expert. He hangs out in the Coping with Infidelity forum. That's where you'll find expert posters for your situation.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

I'm going to pick one up. It'll have to wait for a few says til I get the cash from the stocks I cashed out friday but I'm doing it.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Knowfiguy, something to keep in mind: Human behavior is very predictable. I didn't realize it so much until I started reading posts here. Your wife just came out and said she wants to divorce. That normally doesn't happen unless there's another man in the picture. A cliche I've heard around here is usually true: A monkey doesn't let go of one branch until it has a firm grasp of another branch.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Cubby said:


> Knowfiguy, something to keep in mind: Human behavior is very predictable. I didn't realize it so much until I started reading posts here. Your wife just came out and said she wants to divorce. That normally doesn't happen unless there's another man in the picture. A cliche I've heard around here is usually true: A monkey doesn't let go of one branch until it has a firm grasp of another branch.


Right, it's _rare_ for someone to just out of the blue want out without even trying to save it. Especially with young kids. Yours could be the exception, but I doubt it.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Ill be back later withstandard intel instructions later. Not at my main computer atm.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

knowfiguy, in your opening post you asked her if there was another guy and she said "no." Now I'm going to roll out another TAM true cliche: Cheaters lie and liars cheat.

weightlifter has now entered the conversation and I'd advise you to pay attention to his instructions which he'll post soon.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

knowfiguy, I wonder if you might benefit from reading my thread. I'm a wife who's ready to say too little too late (or would be, were my H to suddenly put forth some effort), but I've been telling him for years now. I wonder if you read through my thread, if any of my behavior might remind you of your wife's. Maybe she's tried to tell you, but you didn't hear her? 

If none of it sounds familiar to you, maybe that will tell you that she's skipping over some of the steps she needs to go through to fix the marriage, or help create some kind of understanding of what you need to do to more forward.

I don't think that after only 5 years, this should be beyond fixing. I'll cross my fingers for you guys.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> I'm a fantastic father. A good guy. Good provider with a good paying job and plenty of room for career growth still only being 26. I dont drink I'm not abusive. I dont go out to bars or clubs putting myself in poor situations. I'm faithful and just a dedicated family man.
> After the emotions were still fresh I recorded a 4 minute memo on my phone covering these points and I want to tell her these today.
> 
> The main poin being that I want to tell her those things and that I
> Know I dont deserve this at all. I thought I did and now I'm positive I dont. I'm really ready to push her to the brink and if she wants to come back it's on my terms.


Do not do this.


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> I'm going to pick one up. It'll have to wait for a few says til I get the cash from the stocks I cashed out friday but I'm doing it.


Hey buddy, I know it's tough today but try and control your anger. Think about the kids, it's not worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

northernlights said:


> knowfiguy, I wonder if you might benefit from reading my thread. I'm a wife who's ready to say too little too late (or would be, were my H to suddenly put forth some effort), but I've been telling him for years now. I wonder if you read through my thread, if any of my behavior might remind you of your wife's. Maybe she's tried to tell you, but you didn't hear her?
> 
> If none of it sounds familiar to you, maybe that will tell you that she's skipping over some of the steps she needs to go through to fix the marriage, or help create some kind of understanding of what you need to do to more forward.
> 
> I don't think that after only 5 years, this should be beyond fixing. I'll cross my fingers for you guys.


northernlights might have excellent advice to you as it relates to her situation, but in my opinion I wouldn't go down that road just yet until you find out if there's another man involved with your wife.

In order to address the problem, you have to know what the problem is. If there's another guy, she'll come up with all kinds of reasons why the marriage isn't working in order to rationalize her having a boyfriend. It's a predictable pattern you see here all the time.

So first, find out.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

*They will say anything to rationalize wanting out of the relationship.*


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

KG,

That whole wedding ring thing is interesting. Did you keep your cool when you saw her without the ring, did you comment on it? To me that is very coy of her. To me she may be trying to get you going. If she didnt want confrontation she would have just kept the ring on. She had it off for one of two reasons, to piss you off which means she still cares! or to tell you its over but even then she would know that it would piss you off. Did she try to make it obvious she wasnt wearing it, for example she could have not worn it and kept her hands behind her back, or in her pocket. That would be more of a sign that she wants out. Remember grass isnt greener on the other side and she may be trying to see if it is. Everyone is trying to tell you to find out if she has a BF but who cares. I knew my wife did but I made A PLAN. First was to look my best everytime I saw her. Second was to make sure her life was miserable (hahaha) which was usually financially, or anything I could think, Not vindictive but the little things. The girlfriend thing was key because it showed someone else wanted me. I struggled with sadness and anxiety through it all, to the point of breakdowns but I never , ever showed her ....ever. I also want to point out one other thing. I kept seeing people on this sight mentioning a book called "the married mans sex life primer" I blew it off and never even looked at it. When I knew I had her hooked back in (even though she was acting irrational and crazy) I decided I needed to really reel her in I read it for the hell of it and OH BOY is that book accurate. I applied everything in the book and that really plunged her back into our marriage. Your fish got off the hook, you need all the bait you have to catch her and reel her back.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Everyone I have good news. I left to cool down for awhile today we texted a little while I was out. I told her to tell me she didn't love me and she couldn't be sure. I said I'd get the divorce papers drawn up Monday. Come home and she says she is unhappy buy doesn't want yo go anywhere. She wants to work on everything. Relief is all I feel. This was half the battle. Thank you everyone for the help and concern. I'll absolutely still be active on this board. You all were a massive help. I'm so glad right now.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

It is not over. Get into counseling. IC and MC.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Arendt said:


> It is not over. Get into counseling. IC and MC.


Read Mmslp and join the forum. Do not stop snooping.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Below is the standard evidence post. It is my work but the collected wisdom of dozens here.

28 cheating wives and one cheating husband hate me. They have not idea I exist but am the reason their affair blew the fvck up.

Standard Post
Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history! 

Credit tacoma 03072014

This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history

Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything she has said into the phone is right here.
I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to.

Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS.

Edit: It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Additional instructions after wading thru this.
1) Do the above plan.
2) I can not emphasize enough about playing stupid husband and MOUTH SHUT and EYES OPEN
3) I will put the numbers thusly given what Ive read:
Probability of some kind of EA 70%
Full affair 55%
She has some guy in mind (She is aiming to monkey vine from you) 80%
I see a fair number of things that scream you are a repeat of poster Logan3.

Hypothesis:

she has a toxic friend(s) possibly thru work who is pushing her to do single things behind your back. Toxic friend is probably newly divorced or single.
While at a club she met someone who she fancies who may fancy her.

GET AHEAD OF THIS NOW. I mean get your azz to best buy PRONTO. I can not go there for you. The gps will likely help you also. BTW hint: you know grocery stores sell visa gift cards... right?

WL

Cheaters:
I am the motherfvcking Borg
Resistance is motherfvcking futile


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## struggle (May 13, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> I feel Like I should hire someone just to confirm if its going on.
> 
> Bcc keep it up. Today when she finally got home maybe 30 minutes ago she came in without her wedding ring on. I'm just irrate right now. She knows that would piss me off so I'm sire thats part of the reason. I wouldnt stop wearing my ring til we were no longer married. I know I'm suppose to just not give a flying ef and move on but thats easier said then done. I can't control my emotions and feelings. To a degree I can but still.


Holy red flag batman...no ring?? Anyone who takes off their ring is already mentally/emotionally detaching from their marriage. That's not ok, but you can't force her to wear it obviously. It's just another sign of where she is. 

My X took off his ring months before wanting to split. When I finally noticed I was so mad. His excuse was that it bothered his finger and it didn't mean we weren't married, it's just a ring. That still pisses me off  he basically was posturing himself for his big announcement when the time came, that's my theory anyway

Actions are everything at this point
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

KG

Please , now is the time to read the book. It is online, Ive been there and you have the fish on the line, real her in again, I did.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You called started calling her bluff, she panicked and said she wants to work it out. Yesterday she wanted a divorce, stayed out all night and didn’t have her wedding ring on when she came home. You are no on better position today than you were two days ago.

Talk is cheap, her actions are what need to speak to you now. Half the battle is not over, it hasn’t even begun. She may have come back to earth, she may just be buying time, getting her exit plan ready. You need to quit letting your emotions rule right now and look at the situation rationally. 

You don’t know the full story, two days ago she is done, the a night of partying and now she “isn’t sure” and wants to work on things. Don’t be surprised if tomorrow she changes her mind yet again….for all you know she was having an affair, she told the boytoy last night she asked for a divorce and he dumped her today so she is running back to plan b.

Don’t fool yourself, you both have a great deal of work to do and you still don’t know what your up against. With luck she did come back to reality suddenly, the percentages will tell you she didn’t. Watch her actions, monitor her. Odds are she will play nice short term and 3 months from now the old patterns will creep back in. Hold her accountable for her actions and don’t bury your head in the sand. 

I want to see you work out your differences and have a great life together. I also don’t want to see you played for the fool. This sounds like all the making for one much more than the other.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Are you listening to Honcho and the others? Mine played nice for six months while secretly plotting exit strategy. You have to make HER show you she wants back in. Anything else is just smoke being blown up your azz.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

Honcho, Pictureless
I totally understand what you are saying but you are focusing on her actions, her behaviors. It is time for KG to make her want him. That means he has to step it up and be the husband he should have been. If I was him I would be focused on myself, what I say, what I do, then it will fall into place. I wouldnt try to be thinking about what she is doing. Women are very peculiar , they always wonder "what would it be like" while us guys can just go along with everything. Women are daydreamers so he needs to be an alpha male and not the go along with everything beta male. And I never realized how much the little things mean, flowers and stuff. They really do need that little stuff.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

bcc said:


> Honcho, Pictureless
> I totally understand what you are saying but you are focusing on her actions, her behaviors. It is time for KG to make her want him. That means he has to step it up and be the husband he should have been. If I was him I would be focused on myself, what I say, what I do, then it will fall into place. I wouldnt try to be thinking about what she is doing. Women are very peculiar , they always wonder "what would it be like" while us guys can just go along with everything. Women are daydreamers so he needs to be an alpha male and not the go along with everything beta male. And I never realized how much the little things mean, flowers and stuff. They really do need that little stuff.


The last thing he should do right now is give her flowers and stuff.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

bcc said:


> Honcho, Pictureless
> I totally understand what you are saying but you are focusing on her actions, her behaviors. It is time for KG to make her want him. That means he has to step it up and be the husband he should have been. If I was him I would be focused on myself, what I say, what I do, then it will fall into place. I wouldnt try to be thinking about what she is doing. Women are very peculiar , they always wonder "what would it be like" while us guys can just go along with everything. Women are daydreamers so he needs to be an alpha male and not the go along with everything beta male. And I never realized how much the little things mean, flowers and stuff. They really do need that little stuff.


This will sound like an argument but I'm really not.

I agree, women should get gifts. But they are all individuals.

My wife said I "Never appreciated or thanked her or gave her anything".

She has a two page list of jewelry, always drove nice vehicles, took 5 boxes of flower vases, I bought a lot of dresses and other things as gifts, nice vacations, surprise trips, weekends at a hotel, Lord knows how many bottles of perfume and things like that.

We'd just bought a lake home she wanted more than me debt free.

So... just one guys perspective but it isn't always the answer.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

bcc said:


> Honcho, Pictureless
> I totally understand what you are saying but you are focusing on her actions, her behaviors. It is time for KG to make her want him. That means he has to step it up and be the husband he should have been. If I was him I would be focused on myself, what I say, what I do, then it will fall into place. I wouldnt try to be thinking about what she is doing. Women are very peculiar , they always wonder "what would it be like" while us guys can just go along with everything. Women are daydreamers so he needs to be an alpha male and not the go along with everything beta male. And I never realized how much the little things mean, flowers and stuff. They really do need that little stuff.


Her message is in what she DOES, not what she SAYS. Focus on that.

Reward GOOD behavior, point out BAD behavior and say that's a NO. Boundary goes down and are enforced. That's what Alpha's do. Beta's do flowers and stuff in response to her sh!t tests. 

You can't nice them back. They either stay or go.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Everyone's input helps me try AMD see the full picture. I know that this is going to require work and not just me flailing around trying to appease her eveymove. I told her this isn't a joke and I'm not going to do this I'd she is just scared now that I said let's file. 

I owe it to my myself and my kids to make sure I keep my end up. And trust me I expect changes from her. Because I was able to determine some of her party girl actions when we lost our house is what pushed me away emotionally. I'll be gaurded but loving. Committed to making sure its legit and also that there wasn't another dude. Because that's where I draw the line.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> Everyone's input helps me try AMD see the full picture. I know that this is going to require work and not just me flailing around trying to appease her eveymove. I told her this isn't a joke and I'm not going to do this I'd she is just scared now that I said let's file.
> 
> I owe it to my myself and my kids to make sure I keep my end up. And trust me I expect changes from her. Because I was able to determine some of her party girl actions when we lost our house is what pushed me away emotionally. I'll be gaurded but loving. Committed to making sure its legit and also that there wasn't another dude. Because that's where I draw the line.


The most important thing you can do right now is to find out if she is cheating or not.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

WOW, everyone is soooo anxious about the cheating thing, why. Because I was there too. People honestly are that affected by their spouse cheating? Well I say to you that I was, but there was a reason. If people were more concerned about WHY shes cheating than THAT shes cheating you might all understand a little better. Women do not cheat for the hell of it. They cheat because they are missing something from their relationships . I never said kiss their a**. I meant that as your relationship comes back together dont forget the little things. She can have a draw full of jewelry and all the stuff she ever wanted but you still s*ck at being a husband 
I went thru hell with my wife. So I do have experience in this. But we are back and things are great, so if you want KG you can listen to the posts that want to bash her for possibly cheating and kick her out. Thats fine too. Or I am telling you that I am happy and my wife is too, and that is because I employed some strategic interventions. These other posts are very reactive "shes cheating, dump her" Sure thats ok, sometimes I still think about my wife and the other guy. But I realize Im so much better than he was and is, so why care. OH sorry, because she broke her vows? Oh because she didnt want me ? Well thats just insecurity. If the vow thing is important for religious purposes, then thats your own personal beliefs and thats ok. When you mentioned the divorce papers that was good, it put a scare into her, it said to her that you are ok and if she needs to leave she can leave!!! There is nothing more attractive to women than a little indifference.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

bcc said:


> WOW, everyone is soooo anxious about the cheating thing, why. Because I was there too. People honestly are that affected by their spouse cheating? Well I say to you that I was, but there was a reason. If people were more concerned about WHY shes cheating than THAT shes cheating you might all understand a little better. Women do not cheat for the hell of it. They cheat because they are missing something from their relationships . I never said kiss their a**. I meant that as your relationship comes back together dont forget the little things. She can have a draw full of jewelry and all the stuff she ever wanted but you still s*ck at being a husband
> I went thru hell with my wife. So I do have experience in this. But we are back and things are great, so if you want KG you can listen to the posts that want to bash her for possibly cheating and kick her out. Thats fine too. Or I am telling you that I am happy and my wife is too, and that is because I employed some strategic interventions. These other posts are very reactive "shes cheating, dump her" Sure thats ok, sometimes I still think about my wife and the other guy. But I realize Im so much better than he was and is, so why care. OH sorry, because she broke her vows? Oh because she didnt want me ? Well thats just insecurity. If the vow thing is important for religious purposes, then thats your own personal beliefs and thats ok. When you mentioned the divorce papers that was good, it put a scare into her, it said to her that you are ok and if she needs to leave she can leave!!! There is nothing more attractive to women than a little indifference.


Dude his wife is out at the bars partying and staying out all night with 2 little kids at home. I think it's pretty presumptuous of you to say that he s%@#cks as a husband. More like she [email protected]#$%^ks as a wife.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

bcc said:


> WOW, everyone is soooo anxious about the cheating thing, why. Because I was there too. People honestly are that affected by their spouse cheating? Well I say to you that I was, but there was a reason. If people were more concerned about WHY shes cheating than THAT shes cheating you might all understand a little better. Women do not cheat for the hell of it. They cheat because they are missing something from their relationships . I never said kiss their a**. I meant that as your relationship comes back together dont forget the little things. She can have a draw full of jewelry and all the stuff she ever wanted but you still s*ck at being a husband
> I went thru hell with my wife. So I do have experience in this. But we are back and things are great, so if you want KG you can listen to the posts that want to bash her for possibly cheating and kick her out. Thats fine too. Or I am telling you that I am happy and my wife is too, and that is because I employed some strategic interventions. These other posts are very reactive "shes cheating, dump her" Sure thats ok, sometimes I still think about my wife and the other guy. But I realize Im so much better than he was and is, so why care. OH sorry, because she broke her vows? Oh because she didnt want me ? Well thats just insecurity. If the vow thing is important for religious purposes, then thats your own personal beliefs and thats ok. When you mentioned the divorce papers that was good, it put a scare into her, it said to her that you are ok and if she needs to leave she can leave!!! There is nothing more attractive to women than a little indifference.


If she's cheating, it's probable that the only thing knowfiguy had to do with it is he allowed his wife to go out regularly partying like a single girl. No establishment of boundaries. Not the kind of thing flowers and stuff will fix.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

Sorry Pictureless , dont want to start an argument, there is a line there, in fact the flowers thing I only meant when they come back together for a while. I have to say that I spent hours and hours reading every possible thing about the nature of women, from women talking about themselves and why they cheated to sociological and anthropological female conditioning. Yes, flowers right now, I wouldnt do. It is beta. But I would not be unreceptive either, you can build a nice wall right now and be aggressively alpha but that might push her away again. KG needs to show her that he is not a pushover!! And I didnt quite mean it like that. But at the same time he needs to show her that he has concern for them as a couple but he is his own man. Its very bizarre and paradoxical , isnt it ? I felt like I was playing a game of chess while I went through it. Whats the next good move??


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

It's okay for spouses to go outside the marriage every once in a while for fun and companionship. It's something else entirely when one spouse continually wants to live like an unmarried childless person. Major red flags when a spouse has unmarried friends of the opposite sex and they prefer spending time with them instead of with their spouse.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

wilderness, If you read my post again I clearly said she could have a draw full of jewelry and everything she wanted and you could still s*ck as a husband. It is a general observation, not specified or directed to KG by any means. And isnt that true?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

knowfiguy,

PLEASE don't be another helpless soul on TAM who gets sucked back in by the lies, the "I want to work things out" spiel, the "I don't want to leave" bull sh#t... TRANSLATE ---> "I realize that you are my meal ticket and I can't make it on my own. So I'm going to stick around but go underground and keep living my party-girl dual life."

I certainly don't recommend chucking it all yet, but please don't rugsweep what she has done.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

bcc said:


> wilderness, If you read my post again I clearly said she could have a draw full of jewelry and everything she wanted and you could still s*ck as a husband. It is a general observation, not specified or directed to KG by any means. And isnt that true?


Irrelevant, though. Two little kids at home and his wife is hanging out at the bars all night and coming home without her wedding ring, let's not kid ourselves. It is what it is.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

pictureless , I completely agree with you, Im definitely not condoning her running out to party or cheating. In fact the first time my wife came back home, she said to me she was going to go out that night I couldnt believe it!!!! hahahaha. I said go ahead, she didnt get home till 3am So she got up the next day and I told her to get the F*ck out in those words.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

Wilderness
i guess you are missing my point sorry for that. I also had three little ones AND full custody. While running a business and trying to raise three kids I guess my decision was my wife was better off at home if she got her sh*t together. A decision must be made and that is a personal one. You can either want to try or not. I am speaking of those who really want to save their marriage


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

bcc said:


> Whats the next good move??


What should K Guy do?

Hey K Guy, you tried the feminine let's talk about the relationship as suggested here by one of the ladies. How did that work for you?

Give her another chance and she'll poo poo on you again. Forget what she's saying, watch what she's doing. 

Give her your bonus, because you're nice, and she'll blow it on her and her friends. If it even comes up I would say you plan on doing something for yourself and your kids with it that you know she enjoys too but don't include her. If she asks why she's not invited say that's how she wants things-tell her your money is spent on your family, not on bar floozies.

What should you do? I would start divorce proceedings since she's told you that's what she wants. If she was into being married with children she'd be home with you.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Read your own writing K Guy. Too little too late. You owned your made mistakes and are willing to make things work but your wife wants to go out bar hopping while you're home with the kids. You try to talk to her about it but she says it's all your fault and she wants a divorce. 

The nerve of you for wanting a wife who will help you raise the kids and give up the single party girl lifestyle. You must be a major POS for wanting her to act like a mature, responsible adult.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

BCC,

Being nice to wife is good but not to checked out cheater. OP needs to be self confident and show leadership, so that WW urge for strange is met by a resolute response. This an evolutionary struggle by her selfish genes.

Our ancestors had much shorter lives than we did. Doubtless men lost on hunting expeditions and raids sometimes came home to learn that their mates had been messing around with some younger guy. They did not fix things being nice. Women who saw their new BF beaten up or worse had to recalibrate their affections. 

The closer a man comes to being alpha, the better the stats for R. Of course, violence is no longer permitted
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> The closer a man comes to being alpha, the better the stats for R.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bingo!


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Here's the way I see It. Obviously everyone has there own opinions which vary from top to bottom. Yes I agree with the alpha bit which is how I'm going forward. I was the one who was being dumped or seperated from. Ok I get that but when I Talked to her told her a few things and said I'd sign the papers. If she doesn't change how she does things and its only me being a better husband and no improvement on her end I'll absolutely flip the script on her and end it. Because I can't be the guy divorced in five years when it should have ended 4 yeas ago. Wasting more time. 

Until I can say she was cheating I'm going to believe her at her word. Call me stupid but I have to. If you dont have trust then what do you have really? And if things go pear shaped I'll be better prepared to handle it.

It seems anyone who had a bad experience and horrible outcome his one view and someone who went through it and its working or bettering has another view. Middle ground is important here I think.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

You still need to find out if there is a PoSOM. She may have decided to R because things went sour with him, or they had a tiff.

VAR in her car. Under the seat. You will have answers in a day or two.

Trust, but verify. Blind trust *is* stupid.

If there is a PoSOM, and their relationship rekindles, you will be back to square one.

I speak from experience. Read my name.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

I think your right and I will verify. I need to be sure I'm not going to out myself through anything unnecessary.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

knowfiguy said:


> I think your right and I will verify. I need to be sure I'm not going to out myself through anything unnecessary.


Very wise decision. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

Longwalk, beautifully put!!! i completely agree . I was very alpha and very malicious to her when my situation happened. I tripped her up without her even knowing. I own a business and have a lot of friends and power, they did all kids of things. I have to say one time the BF text me something real nasty, I grabbed a bat and waited by the corner where I believed they were, hoping to see her car, God Knows what I may have done. He was afraid of me because I have a lot of power and money. I could have hurt him real bad , and not to mention he grabbed my daughter (physically) after I left. I went to court and took the kids and the house and she tried to kill herself. I guess every situation is different , they diagnosed her as bipolar and she is on meds now. Also she confided in me that she was afraid of me , not for abuse but for my success and control and I guess its difficult to live with someone your afraid of. Anyway, I did suspect her behavior was born from mental illness and not from deviance. Dont care, either. Honestly, If I didnt have kids I would be living in the Florida Keys in a hut without her, that is for sure. The kids thing is powerful and honestly I gave her a chance and her behavior has been flawle ss in our marriage since. Im self confident and because she was with someone else doesnt bother me, I was too. People say once a cheater always a cheater and so forth, well I believe some people can get by that as long as it doesnt continue. I know I can find someone else who would be a great person in my life but I love my wife. KG good luck, take it slow and keep a level head but REMEMBER remain Alpha.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

Thanks bcc. Trying to incorporate more spouse time in and go from there. Improve myself and hope that she improves also.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

knowfiguy said:


> Thanks bcc. Trying to incorporate more spouse time in and go from there. Improve myself and hope that she improves also.


knowfiguy- Nothing good comes from your wife partying with single friends. It's said that couples should spend 10 to 15 hours a week doing things together (not just sitting there watching TV) to keep a healthy, loving bond. I think that's true.


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## knowfiguy (Mar 13, 2014)

*Re: Re: Too Little too Late... Wife says*



Cubby said:


> knowfiguy- Nothing good comes from your wife partying with single friends. It's said that couples should spend 10 to 15 hours a week doing things together (not just sitting there watching TV) to keep a healthy, loving bond. I think that's true.


Agreed. She also needs to correct issues that have caused us to distance. 10-15 hours seems like a good number. I think its only more reason the partying needs to become a few and far between event. 

We've bought tickets to go to an improv comedy theater friday. Tying to find ways to get the time invested between us. Its tuff with work schedules being different and 2 kids to always have convient time to spend.


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