# Ever fantasized about sharing your wife?



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I heard a guy on playboy radio say that men have all sorts of sick fantasies That they would never tell their wife. So first question, is this true for you?

Well, i told my husband what i heard on the radio and told him to please tell me a secret fantasy he had and it didnt matter how f'ed up it was and i promised not to shame him or get angry. 

So he told me about this fantasy he had of me giving a bj to one of his best friends and him...and us basically having a swinger experience (he didnt use the word swinger). I was really shocked. But i was accepting of this and he made it clear it wasnt something he actually wanted to do but rather is a fantasy that pops up in his mind. 

Any men out there had a similar fantasy? Wtf? I dont get it. When i think of another woman touching my DH i want to scream.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I can honestly say mine is not the sharing type. He can't stand the thought of anyone else touching me and would more then likely break their arm if they did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Gaia said:


> I can honestly say mine is not the sharing type. He can't stand the thought of anyone else touching me and would more then likely break their arm if they did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree:
Mine is the same way.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Mine isnt the sharing type either! Thats what i dont get


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## Henry (Nov 20, 2007)

I have had that type of fantasy. Usually when I am going solo. I wouldn't even want to kiss my wife again if she was with another man for real. It's just a fantasy.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Where do men get these type of fantasies from?
I have never had such fantasies.
I don't need any other man to " help me " [email protected] my wife.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

Gaia said:


> I can honestly say mine is not the sharing type. He can't stand the thought of anyone else touching me and would more then likely break their arm if they did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not the sharing type at all either....that fantasy is too far out there for this husband...but to each is own...


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Where do men get these type of fantasies from?
> I have never had such fantasies.
> I don't need any other man to " help me " [email protected] my wife.


Lol....i dont think its like that


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Henry said:


> I have had that type of fantasy. Usually when I am going solo. I wouldn't even want to kiss my wife again if she was with another man for real. It's just a fantasy.


So WHAT is it about?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I just wonder if men constantly have sick $h*# in their heads. But it not really soething theyd actually want to do


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

My DH works offshore so he has to go solo a lot...maybe he got bored with the same ol' thoughts lol


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

no. im too possessive for that. sounds more like a nightmare than a fantasy.

This has come up before between us in chit chat though, discussing why other people do it.
we couldnt quite figure it out.
As my wife said to me "Why would you want to own me just to give me to someone else?"
"i wouldnt, thats just thing, why share my most valuable possession i dont let people even drive my car." i said something to the effect of.
we really just couldnt figure it out.
It had us perplexed, how people could even do that.

And the thing is, that is exactly what it comes down to.
you own something, possess it, consider it valuable, why would you want to give it to someone else?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

But he said he would never actually want to do it. He didnt even call it a fantasy. Just said its popped up in his mind.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> I heard a guy on playboy radio say that men have all sorts of sick fantasies That they would never tell their wife. So first question, is this true for you?


Absolutely untrue. I've shared ALL my sick fantasies with my wife. :smthumbup:

Actually this is one of my fantasies too. I would never allow it to become reality but she and I both enjoy this one. My wife has rape fantasies too that she'd never want to become reality. That's the whole point of a fantasy. You can do anything you want in a fantasy. We are affair partners in our fantasies. We are boyfriend/girlfriend in our fantasies. We are debauched swingers in our fantasies. But all physicality is kept solely between she and I.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Wow sandc,

I once KNEW this. Thanks for reminding me.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> Wow sandc,
> 
> I once KNEW this. Thanks for reminding me.


Wait!! You KNEW *MY* fantasies? That's just spooky. :lol:


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

sandc said:


> Wait!! You KNEW *MY* fantasies? That's just spooky. :lol:


Haha no...".But all physicality is kept solely between she and I."

And what a fantasy means in our relationship.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I never have that fantasy. If anything like that pops in my head it's more like I'm the other man having a guy share his wife with me.


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## Kaori (Sep 18, 2012)

My man & I enjoy watching porn together and the porn w/1 woman with multiple men is what we watch the most! I like the multiple penises (my favorite man part. Hehe) and he gets turned on by seeing the woman taking care of & being pleasured by so many men. 

He's made it clear that he fantasizes about seeing me in those scenarios and said that the appeal is in seeing me from a watchers point of view; all the angles that he can't see from his up close vantage point when we have sex. But he realizes the ramifications of the reality & says he couldn't actually share me like that. It's just a fantasy that I now understand.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Nope, not even once. Don't let others drive my SUV either.

Frankly, I've never known a guy with such a fantasy either. My buddies are more likely to kill any other guy that touches their wife.

I think there is a small, sick, group of emotionl disturbed people who keep posting this same thing over and over on the Internet.

I'll believe it's a real think when we start seeing men post on here about how happy they Jane that their wife is cheating on them. So far havent seen even one such post.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Nope, not even once. Don't let others drive my SUV either.
> 
> Frankly, I've never known a guy with such a fantasy either. My buddies are more likely to kill any other guy that touches their wife.
> 
> ...


But it's a fantasy. A guy might fantasize about his wife playing stripper for him, but i wouldnt think that means he would want his wife to actually be a stripper.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Shaggy,

Who are you saying is sick and emotionally disturbed?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> Shaggy,
> 
> Who are you saying is sick and emotionally disturbed?


I have come to believe that there is a very small community of men who are posting this same idea on a variety of boards such as TAM and reddit etc.

I've seen enough of these postings over the years to see a pattern of styles, subject presentation, and reaction to come to suspect its the sane group over and over trying to fish for others or reinforce their own ideas. Don't know why, but I see the pattern.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Ok


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

First off men and WOMEN have all kinds of kinky fantasies so let just put the only men to rest right now.

Years and years before I was married I was with a few couples MFM and they were married and I had a good time,I asked them about being Jealious and they said they had talked about it a lot and had no issues with it,for me being in my 20s it was great.

I am very jealious and would never share my wife with another guys, but if she were up for another woman I am in,BUT ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN[lol].


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

I kinda think that some men really want to see their women be ALOT more sexual. This fantasy is a wanton sexual being fantasy. 
I would freak the F-out if my wife ven thought about doing this.
But it's very hot to watch others do it. It's confusing.

Sometimes I think we get desensitized to sexual stuff and we need more and more extreme things to hit that part of our brains. Not for real but in thought. I've crossed lines in my head I will never share, even I start to look at myself differently. Haha!

Missy, you tricked your husband into telling you his F-Ed up fantasy, by saying you would not judge him, do you think that's maybe how your feeling? Like now you don't understand him? Or you understand him less?

I learned the hard way to be careful what you ask...you might get the truth. Haha!


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

it is just fantasy. Have fun with it. I have all kinds of fantasies that I dont actually want to happen.


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## Horsa (Jun 27, 2012)

Could me conservative and possesive, for I will not share my DW even in a fantasy or a dream, that idea will never pop in my head, and I know she will never want to share me either.
If my wife strip like a stripper for me, I will really appreciate her, becoz she isn't a stripper, and she has to learn all those moves just to make me happy.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

dogman said:


> I kinda think that some men really want to see their women be ALOT more sexual. This fantasy is a wanton sexual being fantasy.
> I would freak the F-out if my wife ven thought about doing this.
> But it's very hot to watch others do it. It's confusing.
> 
> ...


I didnt "trick" my husband into telling me. I asked and he told me. I never judged or shamed him. Im just curious if others have this, and im trying to understand it.


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## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

The thing about fantasies is they don't have to account for emotions or reprocussions. I can fantasize about things that I would never do or participate in in real life. And although sharing fantasies can be okay, it can also be very tricky because now it is not just your emotions you need to worry about, it is your SO's.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

dogman said:


> I kinda think that some men really want to see their women be ALOT more sexual. This fantasy is a wanton sexual being fantasy.
> I would freak the F-out if my wife ven thought about doing this.
> But it's very hot to watch others do it. It's confusing.
> 
> ...


Also, i am incredibly sexual...very HD. He has HD too. I have always been open in the bedroom and we talk openly about sex as well. We've done a lot already....maybe the novelty of this fantasy is appealing b/c it is something we have never done. Again, he made it very clear he would NEVER want to actually do this.

Im just going to ask him my original question. Lol


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I never have that fantasy. If anything like that pops in my head it's more like I'm the other man having a guy share his wife with me.


So glad he did not tell me this....


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## Robnovack (Sep 28, 2012)

Probably the second most common fantasy after the "girl on girl" one. It's complicated but yes men like the idea of watching thier wifes having sex, giving pleasure and receiving it, the more unihibited the better.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I didnt "trick" my husband into telling me. I asked and he told me. I never judged or shamed him. Im just curious if others have this, and im trying to understand it.



Sorry, I didn't mean "tricked" in a bad way, just that you seem bothered that he would even let this in his mind for a minute.
I see nothing wrong with the thoughts or the conversation about the thoughts.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Also, i am incredibly sexual...very HD. He has HD too. I have always been open in the bedroom and we talk openly about sex as well. We've done a lot already....maybe the novelty of this fantasy is appealing b/c it is something we have never done. Again, he made it very clear he would NEVER want to actually do this.
> 
> Im just going to ask him my original question. Lol



You are both HD...you are very lucky to have it so.

Most of us find out our spouse is not at the same level of need.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think it is the men who have not experienced it, but know in their hearts they cannot tolerate their own wife doing this, that think about it the most.

It's taboo. 

I bet giving in to the fantasies would be the beginning of the end.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Yes. I sometimes fantasize about sharing my wife with my friends (a bonifide threesome/moresome, not a cuckhold situation). I don't find it to be a "sick" fantasy, I have no desire to implement it in real life, and my wife is fully aware of my fantasy as we discuss openly, and without judgement, things like this. We've discussed the types of threesomes we'd find hot, the different combos of the sexes, and whether we'd want the people to be strangers or people we know and love. This is neither a taboo, nor uncomfortable, topic for us, so some of the shame being exibitied in this thread around this kind of admission is nonexistent in our relationship. However we've both decided this is best kept in fantasy and not explored in the real world. It's not something I can really visualize being comfortable in real life. Ultimately I prefer the solidarity of our sexual life. In reality, it's just the two of us, and that is more than enough.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

yes but it involves a crocodile or a shark.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> yes but it involves a crocodile or a shark.


I am laughing out loud from reading your comment!!!!!!!!


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> yes but it involves a crocodile or a shark.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

I could never in a million years share my wife with another guy. As for pure fantasy, I suppose having another woman involved would be hot. But I'm not sure that I would feel the same way after it really happened. Best to leave things the way they are.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

40isthenew20 said:


> I could never in a million years share my wife with another guy. As for pure fantasy, I suppose having another woman involved would be hot. But I'm not sure that I would feel the same way after it really happened. Best to leave things the way they are.


Im talking about pure fantasy, not real life.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> I have come to believe that there is a very small community of men who are posting this same idea on a variety of boards such as TAM and reddit etc.
> 
> I've seen enough of these postings over the years to see a pattern of styles, subject presentation, and reaction to come to suspect its the sane group over and over trying to fish for others or reinforce their own ideas. Don't know why, but I see the pattern.


This is a well-known and common fantasy. I don't see why or how a couple of guys could produce the illusion that many men have this fantasy.

I have this fantasy too Missy. If you love someone and find them sexy, why wouldn't you want to see them in sexual situations? Of course reality is different, in fantasy all the dangers can be ignored.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Just a sick, twisted cuckold mentality, inherent in a handful of sick, twisted individuals, at least in my opinion!


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> Nope, not even once. Don't let others drive my SUV either.
> 
> Frankly, I've never known a guy with such a fantasy either. My buddies are more likely to kill any other guy that touches their wife.
> 
> I think there is a small, sick, group of emotionl disturbed people who keep posting this same thing over and over on the Internet.


Why would you villify people who have a fantasy that involves consenting adults? Touch a nerve?



Shaggy said:


> I'll believe it's a real think when we start seeing men post on here about how happy they Jane that their wife is cheating on them. So far havent seen even one such post.


Solipsistic? There are whole forums out there advising men on how to get their wives to sleep with other men. Ironic, considering the pain expressed on this forum, but undeniably true.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

arbitrator said:


> Just a sick, twisted cuckold mentality, inherent in a handful of sick, twisted individuals, at least in my opinion!


Now that is the opinion of a confident, tolerant person! If it's not for you, fine, but why the bile?

Have you read your own signature?


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Also, i am incredibly sexual...very HD. He has HD too. I have always been open in the bedroom and we talk openly about sex as well. We've done a lot already....maybe the novelty of this fantasy is appealing b/c it is something we have never done. Again, he made it very clear he would NEVER want to actually do this.
> 
> Im just going to ask him my original question. Lol


I suspect that there are as many different reasons for this fantasy as there are men who share it. You have indicated that you are both HD. While some people recall hot events, I think most people fantasize, in the true meaning of the word, about things they have not done. If that's correct, that may be why men in a mutual HD relationship would fantasize about this -- although they are both HD, this is a point beyond which they, like you, have not pushed the envelope. 

By contrast I suspect some men who have this fantasy, and I put myself in this category, are in a situation where the man is HD and the woman is LD. This fantasy for them therefore includes the woman being seriously HD, something they do not have and probably want, even if they do not want this particular event to come true. I wonder if that's what motivates some men in those situations to have that fantasy. I think that's why I have that fantasy, but I am not sure even about myself much less others.

Sorry if this is a little wordy; I am baking these thoughts as I serve them up. 

I'm not active on this board, but this is a great and provocative topic. I'll be back. Thank you, MissyMrs.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Now that is the opinion of a confident, tolerant person! If it's not for you, fine, but why the bile?
> 
> Have you read your own signature?


Honestly, I find it just as sick and twisted as arbitrator and shaggy have stated. I would be offended if my husband ever had such a fantasy.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> Just a sick, twisted cuckold mentality, inherent in a handful of sick, twisted individuals, at least in my opinion!


Ouch! That shame burns.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Honestly, I find it just as sick and twisted as arbitrator and shaggy have stated. I would be offended if my husband ever had such a fantasy.


I would be offended if he asked me to act on it. My DH is a stand up guy.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I have a fantasy about peace and love and open minded comments on this thread. I have a fantasy that there is no shame served up when it wasn't ordered. But a fantasy is....well....something that isnt reality.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I have a fantasy about peace and love and open minded comments on this thread. I have a fantasy that there is no shame served up when it wasn't ordered. But a fantasy is....well....something that isnt reality.


Well, you did ask the question... and the answer from some of us is that it is offensive, TO US. If the thought doesn't offend you, fine, but it does offend some. Fantasies about threesomes or anything involving sharing, I do find offensive. Fantasies about finding a secluded spot in the woods and just going at it, fine with me. Some things I find sick. Others I do not.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> This is a well-known and common fantasy. I don't see why or how a couple of guys could produce the illusion that many men have this fantasy.


The largest internet sex study found that among the most popular, common porn searched by hetreosexually indentified men was group sex scenes where one, or more, women are phucked by several men. Pornography featuring multiple penetration, threesomes/moresomes, swinging, bukkake, and large orgies are very, very common in the porn industry and are consumed in large quanities daily by men and women in this nation, and at large around the world.

There are those who live in very small, very limited worlds who feel comfortable believing that these kinds of fantasies and desires are the byproducts of a rare few depraved individuals. For whatever reason it helps them to believe that human beings are largely these vanilla, safe animals with "normal" sexual reactions, thoughts, and beliefs.

Of course that couldn't be further from the truth, but it does help some people sleep better at night.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I just think sick twisted and emotionally disturbed are a little harsh is all im sayin. My DH is none of those things


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Well, you did ask the question... and the answer from some of us is that it is offensive, TO US. If the thought doesn't offend you, fine, but it does offend some. Fantasies about threesomes or anything involving sharing, I do find offensive. Fantasies about finding a secluded spot in the woods and just going at it, fine with me. Some things I find sick. Others I do not.


But Maricha you are stating this in the right way; what is offensive to you personally. Nobody can ask for more than that. 

Your expression, however, is inherently different than somebody coming up with a wild, crazy conspiracy theory where the millions of people online who express a desire for these kinds of fantasies are actually seceretly just a handful of depraved individuals trolling thousands of boards, across dozens of langagues, trying to leave the impression that the few are the many.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

jaquen said:


> But Maricha you are stating this in the right way; what is offensive to you personally. Nobody can ask for more than that.
> 
> Your expression, however, is inherently different than somebody coming up with a wild, crazy conspiracy theory where the millions of people online who express a desire for these kinds of fantasies are actually seceretly just a handful of depraved individuals trolling thousands of boards, across dozens of langagues, trying to leave the impression that the few are the many.


Maricha, i echo that.

Sounds like a cool movie.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Not a fantasy of mine at all. I have a one D96k per room rule staring me.
I'm the director,the producer, writer, editor, art director, stuntman,......................

(Dave Chappelle)


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I just think sick twisted and emotionally disturbed are a little harsh is all im sayin. My DH is none of those things


 I agree, a fantasy is a fantasy. 

Sometimes I fantasize about running people who cut me off in traffic off the road, but I have yet to actually do it. Haha!
That's not to say that someone else won't do it. If they do they have problems.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

dogman said:


> I agree, a fantasy is a fantasy.
> 
> Sometimes I fantasize about running people who cut me off in traffic off the road, but I have yet to actually do it. Haha!
> That's not to say that someone else won't do it. If they do they have problems.


Well I guess you're right.
I also have a deep secret fantasy.

It involves a " Stewie Costume" a kalashnikov ,and people who are presently owing me tens of thousands of dollars........

But I agree.
A fantasy is a fantasy!


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

I have had this fantasy for the past few years and though its not brought up often my wife does know I would not complain nor get upset if she ever decided to spread her legs for someone ahem ahem ???

My wife of 8 years and GF 4 years prior to being married has only been with 2 men in her life .... I being one of them. The thought of the Mrs disregarding all her inhibitions and then wantonly f**ks a guy or several guys is an incredible turnon though I kow it's probably best kept as a fantasy for the obvious reasons


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I never thought that I had a fantasy about this. I am the jealous type. I could not handle seeing my wife with someone. It would destroy me.

But sometimes when I browse the Internet for racey pictures/video I search for cheating wife or naughty wife. 

I think this means the thought does turn me on. But I know I would never want it to actually happen. Guess that is why they call it a 'fantasy'


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I never thought that I had a fantasy about this. I am the jealous type. I could not handle seeing my wife with someone. It would destroy me.
> 
> But sometimes when I browse the Internet for racey pictures/video I search for cheating wife or naughty wife.
> 
> I think this means the thought does turn me on. But I know I would never want it to actually happen. Guess that is why they call it a 'fantasy'


Something about watching her be such a naughty girl and be in the throes of passion is what does it for me. Seeing the look on my wife's pretty face as we make love and visualizing this same look while she's with someone else hmmmmmm


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

still cant figure out how you guys are getting off on thinking of your wife with someone else.
i find it disturbing, from my personal perspective, to even think of my wife with someone else. :scratchhead:


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

bribrius said:


> still cant figure out how you guys are getting off on thinking of your wife with someone else.
> i find it disturbing, from my personal perspective, to even think of my wife with someone else. :scratchhead:


Understandable because just a few years ago I would had thought the same thing as you do  not sure if its me being more secure or perhaps me indeed being perverted as my wife has said before ?!


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

Omgitsjoe said:


> Understandable because just a few years ago I would had thought the same thing as you do  not sure if its me being more secure or perhaps me indeed being perverted as my wife has said before ?!


could be the porn. you guys getting into alot of porn or something? Might start putting things like this in your heads...


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

bribrius said:


> still cant figure out how you guys are getting off on thinking of your wife with someone else.
> i find it disturbing, from my personal perspective, to even think of my wife with someone else. :scratchhead:


Why do you need to get it? If you don't, then don't fantasize it. I'm sure plenty of people have fantasies that do nothing for me, or I don't get. I doubt they give a damn if I can "figure it out" or not. Stick to what you enjoy, and leave the rest up to everybody else.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

bribrius said:


> could be the porn. you guys getting into alot of porn or something? Might start putting things like this in your heads...


Well not for nothing I grew up with porn and Penthouse magazines so I'm no stranger in hat category though while dating my wife we / I rarely relied on porn due to that natural high labido. With the staleness over the years we have introduced it into our bedroom and perhaps my mind is her again working the way it is ??


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## what2dowithwife (Oct 1, 2012)

Agree with jaquen, don't try hard to get it. You either have and enjoy such fantasies or you don't. period. The age, the turbulence your sexual life goes thru with having kids, the length of the relationship and the trust you built with your partner give you the leverage and freedom to have such fantasies. And it is f**ing hot.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

what2dowithwife said:


> Agree with jaquen, don't try hard to get it. You either have and enjoy such fantasies or you don't. period. The age, the turbulence your sexual life goes thru with having kids, the length of the relationship and the trust you built with your partner give you the leverage and freedom to have such fantasies. And it is f**ing hot.


My wife probably doesn't know to what extent my fantasy are ..... she thinks its more of her flirting , dancing and maybe showing some skin to an innocent hunk at the bar but hmmmm if she only knew ???


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

what2dowithwife said:


> Agree with jaquen, don't try hard to get it. You either have and enjoy such fantasies or you don't. period. The age, the turbulence your sexual life goes thru with having kids, the length of the relationship and the trust you built with your partner give you the leverage and freedom to have such fantasies. And it is f**ing hot.


Guess i just dont. it is a turn off for me..:scratchhead:

maybe when i was younger and with one of my girlfriends i didnt care about, i was more into that kind of, well like the real type of them kind of things. Im a little more settled and pretty possessive of my wife now...
that actually reminds me more of like one of my young man whoring fantasy things i was into...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Gotta pimp out my missus! Great fantasy 

Some temptations are simply just not worth it however for obvious reasons.


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## what2dowithwife (Oct 1, 2012)

Omgitsjoe said:


> My wife probably doesn't know to what extent my fantasy are ..... she thinks its more of her flirting , dancing and maybe showing some skin to an innocent hunk at the bar but hmmmm if she only knew ???


If you are open and transparent with each other, then let it all out. You would be amazed to what extent your wife's fantasies go when you share with her your darkest ones


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## thegatewalker (Apr 29, 2012)

Gaia said:


> I can honestly say mine is not the sharing type. He can't stand the thought of anyone else touching me and would more then likely break their arm if they did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have worked hard to keep Gaia and she is mine only. Naw I would break their neck instead.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

So, what about MFF threesomes? Sharing your wife with another woman? Is that the same? 

I find the way some posters are equating their wives being sexual with someone else with someone else driving their car to be far more offensive than the OP's husband's fantasy. Women are not possessions. You don't own a person. 

Nothing is off-limits in my husband and my fantasy life. I can't imagine finding anything he fantasized about offensive. If it turns him on, it turns me on.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Lyris said:


> So, what about MFF threesomes? Sharing your wife with another woman? Is that the same?


That doesn't have the same appeal for me. 



Lyris said:


> I find the way some posters are equating their wives being sexual with someone else with someone else driving their car to be far more offensive than the OP's husband's fantasy. Women are not possessions. You don't own a person.


This is a common misunderstanding. The whole point to my fantasy is my wife being highly sexual and independent. There is an element of masochism in it because for me part of the fantasy involves her being so lost in lust that she forgets that I am there.

I told my wife about this fantasy and she was flattered. She felt it made her special. 

Telling her has brought us much closer together. She has admitted having strong crushes on a couple of men in our past. 
We are now more open and we tell each other who we find attractive. I believe that this openess makes infidelity less likely. If your partner knows of your crush it loses its mystique and you see it for what it is - just a simple biological phenomena which can be safely ignored.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lyris said:


> So, what about MFF threesomes? Sharing your wife with another woman? Is that the same?
> 
> *I find the way some posters are equating their wives being sexual with someone else with someone else driving their car to be far more offensive than the OP's husband's fantasy. Women are not possessions. You don't own a person.
> *
> ...


One of the most on point posts I've ever read here in the Sex section, especially the bolded.












Lyris said:


> So, what about MFF threesomes? Sharing your wife with another woman? Is that the same?


Yep, another fantasy. The difference is during the MFM fantasies, I always participate. In the MFF ones I almost always enjoy watching them pleasure each other.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> I find the way some posters are equating their wives being sexual with someone else with someone else driving their car to be far more offensive than the OP's husband's fantasy. Women are not possessions. You don't own a person.


Did someone actually say that they own their wife? No, what was said was something along the lines that there are a lot of things they personally would not share, in a meaning that if they don't share those they certainly would not share their wifes. 

Personally i don't have this kind of fantasy. In fact quite the opposite, since those thoughts make me sick. But a fantasy is a fantasy. No need to worry to much about it. 

I would however advise against acting it out.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

missymrs80 said:


> I heard a guy on playboy radio say that men have all sorts of sick fantasies That they would never tell their wife. So first question, is this true for you?
> 
> Well, i told my husband what i heard on the radio and told him to please tell me a secret fantasy he had and it didnt matter how f'ed up it was and i promised not to shame him or get angry.
> 
> ...


This does not surprise me at all.. kudos to him FOR BEING SO HONEST.. I think most men would just LIE, they know their wives too well and would be in the Dog House for a very long time. But I can think of other questions they would FIB more so on - over this one. 

I feel ALL women should read this book to understand, yeah... men are LIKE this... (not all have this fantasy -but many- it is even conflicting in their own minds).....dogs that they are... but we love them anyway. 

_Men in Love_: Nancy Friday: Books 

It says this about the book >>>


> Men In Love develops a startlingly honest portrayal of what it means to be a man in contemporary America. Here are the unexpurgated dreams, fantasies and fetishes that excite and obsess men today.
> 
> In creating this historic study, Nancy Friday listened -- without disapproval, apology or censorship -- to the candid responses of thousands of men aged fourteen through sixty. She gave them a legitimate arena where they could share their "secret gardens" -- the hidden and forbidden but nonetheless real and true. Much more than a litany of erotica, this unique volume doesn't tell us how men should love. It tells us how men do love -- a stunning insight into the desires that dwell within men's psyches... and their hearts.


Not ALL men are like this , however.... I've asked my husband near every question there is to ask -about his fantasies... this one... No...never.... seeing something like that would only INFURIATE him, anger him, like Costa200 said above, make him sick.... absolutely no rise in arousal to see such a thing, not even in a fantasy.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

*NO*


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Lyris said:


> So, what about MFF threesomes? Sharing your wife with another woman? Is that the same?
> 
> I find the way some posters are equating their wives being sexual with someone else with someone else driving their car to be far more offensive than the OP's husband's fantasy. Women are not possessions. You don't own a person.
> 
> Nothing is off-limits in my husband and my fantasy life. I can't imagine finding anything he fantasized about offensive. If it turns him on, it turns me on.


It's the same for me but not my wife. She sometimes talks girl on girl fantasies but that is only for my benefit. Even though the sight of nude women will turn her on (again maybe just because she thinks I like it) she only fantasizes about men. She enjoys our MFM and MMMMF (many men waiting in line) fantasies as much as I do.


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## LovetheDaisy (Oct 12, 2011)

bribrius said:


> no. im too possessive for that. sounds more like a nightmare than a fantasy.
> 
> This has come up before between us in chit chat though, discussing why other people do it.
> we couldnt quite figure it out.
> ...



It makes me feel sad that your wife feels owned. You do not own another person, just because you are married to them. Good luck with all of that.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Not ALL men are like this , however.... I've asked my husband near every question there is to ask -about his fantasies... this one... No...never.... seeing something like that would only INFURIATE him, anger him, like Costa200 said above, make him sick.... absolutely no rise in arousal to see such a thing, not even in a fantasy.


SA I'm a little disappointed here. You've always been my sexual heroin. I mean heroine. Like a lot of the others here you appear to be blurring the lines between fantasy and reality. The question isn't would your husband actually go through with it. The question is about the fantasy. I would not allow it to actually happen either. If I actually saw this I would become enraged and OM would get very hurt. But in my head all bets are off. ANYTHING can and does happen in my head. This fantasy turns both S and C on so we just enjoy it for what it is.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

sandc said:


> SA I'm a little disappointed here. You've always been my sexual heroin. I mean heroine. Like a lot of the others here you appear to be blurring the lines between fantasy and reality. The question isn't would your husband actually go through with it. The question is about the fantasy. I would not allow it to actually happen either. If I actually saw this I would become enraged and OM would get very hurt. But in my head all bets are off. ANYTHING can and does happen in my head. This fantasy turns both S and C on so we just enjoy it for what it is.


I don't see it as a blurring of the lines at all. She stated, specifically, that her husband can't stand even the THOUGHT/fantasy of another man taking her... that even THINKING of it makes him angry, not aroused. Some things, some of us don't fantasize about. There is nothing wrong with that.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

sandc said:


> SA I'm a little disappointed here. You've always been my sexual heroin. I mean heroine. Like a lot of the others here you appear to be blurring the lines between fantasy and reality. The question isn't would your husband actually go through with it. The question is about the fantasy. I would not allow it to actually happen either. If I actually saw this I would become enraged and OM would get very hurt. But in my head all bets are off. ANYTHING can and does happen in my head. This fantasy turns both S and C on so we just enjoy it for what it is.


You are very fortunate that your wife enjoys the same fantasy as yours whether its mfm or mmmmmf it turns the both of you on and that's probably half the battle when it comes to having a good and active sex life in a relationship.

This fantasy can be very complicated for the obvious reasons but when a couple can use it to " fuel " the foreplay and then the actual love making it is a great tool !! In a fantasy every guy or girl looks great , says all the right things and touches all the right places ......... in reality i am sure it is far , far from this perfect world we have in our minds


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Did someone actually say that they own their wife? No, what was said was something along the lines that there are a lot of things they personally would not share, in a meaning that if they don't share those they certainly would not share their wifes.
> 
> Personally i don't have this kind of fantasy. In fact quite the opposite, since those thoughts make me sick. But a fantasy is a fantasy. No need to worry to much about it.
> 
> I would however advise against acting it out.


Costa, first of all someone did say that explicitly. See, Bribrius on page 1 of this thread. First he attributes that ownership phrase to his wife, but he immediately attributes it to himself in his response to her. More importantly, that type of control has been implicit in every comparison like that. One can't reasonably argue that those posts do not objectify the wives, no matter what language is used. Often, the concept is more revealing than the word.

On a side note: I would be curious to know if the same people who are judging others based on an unacted-out fantasy - that which is just a thought - are against hate crime statutes because they punish thought combined with an act. Don't mean to get political, but I think it is an interesting question. I'm always looking for inconsistency on both sides of the political and social aisle.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> I don't see it as a blurring of the lines at all. She stated, specifically, that her husband can't stand even the THOUGHT/fantasy of another man taking her... that even THINKING of it makes him angry, not aroused. Some things, some of us don't fantasize about. There is nothing wrong with that.


Read it again. She said seeing. She may have intended to write what you wrote however.

There is nothing wrong with you and there is nothing wrong with me. So now what?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Sandc, this is her exact words. You interpreted it differently than I did.



SimplyAmorous said:


> Not ALL men are like this , however.... I've asked my husband *near every question* there is to ask -*about his fantasies*... this one... No...never.... *seeing something like that would only INFURIATE him*, anger him, like Costa200 said above, make him sick.... absolutely *no rise in arousal to see such a thing, not even in a fantasy.*


This is why I said what I did. Maybe I misinterpreted it. I don't think I did, but I could be wrong. I am sure SA will be back to clarify at some point.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Also....fantasy doesnt mean obsessed with/consumed by/focused on 24/7. This fantasy of his is not the focal Point in our marriage.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> So first question, is this true for you?...Wtf? I dont get it.


Nope.

I dont get it either.

Shrug.

---
Hamlet: "To what base uses we may return, Horatio! Why may not imagination trace the noble dust of Alexander, till he find it stopping a bung-hole?"
---
Horatio: ”Twere to consider too curiously, to consider so.
---

In short - consider - before considering too curiously. 


I also agree finding out new things about my spouses fantasy life is a good thing - whatever it is about.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

There's a theory that there is a primitive response in men to generate more sperm when they think their partner has been with another man. I believe it's referred to as "Sperm Wars". Presumably, this increase in sperm production is sensed as increased arousal. This could explain why the fantasy of their woman with another man may be arousing to some.

The reality of course is a whole different ball game. Jealousy, infection, pregnancy, insecurity, morality are all barriers to actually doing it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

It's about as disgusting as having your wife wanting to share you with another woman. I'd greatly wager that if you took a poll, those "sharing" folks would greatly be in the slimmest minority.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Ok.
I hear all the arguments posted and respect everyone's view.
I have been able to understand to a certain extent why some men would have this particular fantasy.
What I'm wondering now is this.

What is the connection with sexual fantasy and actual reality, if there's any at all?

OP ,I hope you don't think that I'm trying to jack your thread
Just looking for more clarification.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I think the connection is complex. I think a lot of it has to do with our past.....those who have the sharing wife fantasy have something going on just as much as those who find that fantasy repulsive. 

My greatest fear is being abandoned (mostly thru death....goes back to childhood) and my husbands greatest fear is being smoothered and controlled. Maybe thats why i have not fantasized about seeing him with another woman and he has fantasized about seeing me with another man. I think sometimes our fantasies (and maybe even our disgust with certain fantasies) are a way to master the fear. Of course some stuff is just in our DNA. Im not saying i think this explains all fantasies.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

arbitrator said:


> It's about as disgusting as having your wife wanting to share you with another woman.


What is disgusting about a fantasy involving consensual sex?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I have fantasies of winning the lottery. Do i buy tickets? No. I know i wont win and its a waste of money. i also like my life the way it is. But its fun to fantasize about what i would do with the $ if i did win.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> What is disgusting about a fantasy involving consensual sex?


~ And regarding a 3-way:

So exactly where is the love or the morality in it? As long as the fantasy stays strictly between committed lovers and there's no physical contact with the third party, then that's totally up to them.

I'd be quite fearful that even the mere suggestion of a fantasy, as such, would come to hurt my lover!


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

My husband knows Im quite liberal open and understanding. I also never shame or judge him....which is prob why he did share. I feel more connected when my DH and i share our thoughts with one another....good or bad. If the thoughts are there...well they are there. Id rather him be able to talk to me then him feel like he has to suppress his thoughts and feelings....and fantasies.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

arbitrator said:


> ~ And regarding a 3-way:
> 
> So exactly where is the love or the morality in it? As long as the fantasy stays strictly between committed lovers and there's no physical contact with the third party, then that's totally up to them.
> 
> I'd be quite fearful that even the mere suggestion of a fantasy, as such, would come to hurt my lover!


It is funny how this fantasy seems to threaten people. No-one is suggesting that anyone has to do this who doesn't want to. 

This fantasy involves normal sex acts between consenting adults, yet people are quite comfortable insulting people who express their interest in it. Why?


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

and lets not forget... the reason (one theory goes) that a penis is shaped the way it is... is as an extraction tool for another mans semen before you deposit yours.

Jesse Bering theorizes on Why Is the Penis Shaped Like That? - YouTube


but. I still never got that particular fantasy.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> What is disgusting about a fantasy involving consensual sex?


Im not so willing to say consensual automatically equates to 'not disgusting'. You know.. in a broad sense.

I can think of some fairly disgusting things that would still be so - even between willing partners. (examples NOT necessary...)


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> It is funny how this fantasy seems to threaten people. No-one is suggesting that anyone has to do this who doesn't want to.
> 
> This fantasy involves normal sex acts between consenting adults, *yet people are quite comfortable insulting people who express their interest in it. Why?*


Possibly for the same reason those who are more liberal in their sex acts seem to like insulting those who are not? Some people are comfortable with such things. Some find it disgusting. I am in the latter group. The mere thought (yes, even fantasies) of sharing in any way, be it threesomes or more or "just" sharing with one other person, I find repulsive. But that is MY opinion. I won't change your mind, and you won't change mine. It's just the way it is.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> It is funny how this fantasy seems to threaten people. No-one is suggesting that anyone has to do this who doesn't want to.
> 
> This fantasy involves normal sex acts between consenting adults, yet people are quite comfortable insulting people who express their interest in it. Why?


i actually dont find it threatening. i find it retarded. But i had enough sexual experiences when i was younger that i dont need to fantasize much and i dont have a very vivid imagination anyway. :lol:
i dont need to understand it. To each their own.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Im really surprised by the strong adjectives used in this thread. I honestly Wasnt expecting that.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

The fantasy of wife sharing crossed my mind a few times in the past. I admit it was a turn on...but it was just a fantasy and that is where it stayed. I never shared that fantasy with her because I also had a deep fear that she may desire someone else. I didn't even want to unlock that door...let alone open it. It was a turn on because in the fantasy world, we were both present, there were no secrets and there was no emotional connection...just sex. 

Of course my worst fears were confirmed years later when I discovered she was cheating on me. Needless to say that fantasy is no longer a turn on...it reminds me of her betrayal. The reality was full of secrets, lies, and emotions.


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## fortheloveofit2 (Oct 1, 2012)

bribrius said:


> no. im too possessive for that.
> 
> As my wife said to me "Why would you want to own me just to give me to someone else?"
> "i wouldnt, thats just thing, why share my most valuable possession i dont let people even drive my car."
> ...


The entire idea of wholly possessing our spouses breeds deep-rooted dependencies, infantile and childish emotions and jealousy. I thought marraige was more about partnership and security not control.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

i will not judge anyone that does share, as long as it is consensual. If both people are ok with that, go ahead.

For me personally, it's almost the worst thing I could think of happening in our realtionship. That's my issue. In my marriage to my e-wife, she ran around on me. A lot. dozens of times. Most I didn't find out about until after, but it happened so much that even the idea of sharing causes me to tense up. I couldn't imagine my fiancee with another man, and I know I'd associate sharing with either an affair (even if I had consented, I know, that's weird) or as possibly leading to an affair.

After having gone through getting run around on like I was, I can honestly say I'd rather get an ice pick in the temple than go through that again. It's such a huge panic point with me that I couldn't possibly entertain the thought of sharing, threesomes, swingers, etc. 

Like I said, I don't judge those who do it, but for me it's about as 180 away from where I am as I could get.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

missymrs80 said:


> Im really surprised by the strong adjectives used in this thread. I honestly Wasnt expecting that.


It is not just this thread or just this forum. I sometimes read erotica and the site I use has some stories, like incest and 'non-consensual', that would make your hair go grey, yet the most aggresive and insulting comments are made against the authors of wife-sharing stories. It is strange. 

I find the idea of fisting pretty repulsive, but I wouldn't insult someone who is into it. Most people find the idea of adult-babies disgusting but they don't get angry and insult people. They might just laugh. 

For some reason this kink causes anger. The only explanation I can think of is that people find it threatening somehow. I would be happy to hear a better explanation.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I think the connection is complex. *I think a lot of it has to do with our past.....*those who have the sharing wife fantasy have something going on just as much as those who find that fantasy repulsive.
> 
> My greatest fear is being abandoned (mostly thru death....goes back to childhood) and my husbands greatest fear is being smoothered and controlled. *Maybe thats why i have not fantasized about seeing him with another woman and he has fantasized about seeing me with another man. I think sometimes our fantasies (and maybe even our disgust with certain fantasies) are a way to master the fear. Of course some stuff is just in our DNA.* Im not saying i think this explains all fantasies.


Ok.
Back when we were just married, my wife had a exhibitionist fantasy. She is a very quiet , soft spoken person, but in the bedroom she's quite different.
We have lots of mirrors in our bedroom because she likes to * see * everything.
Some years later we did stuff in public,in places where we could have been caught,and she totally liked it. It is a huge turn on for her.

So basically that's a fantasy she gets fulfilled very often.
Her fantasy became reality because we both felt comfortable with it.

I guess my question is , how does a couple distinguish between an ok fantasy becoming reality and a fantasy that should remain just a fantasy, never to be fulfilled and acted upon. I'm assuming they both agree that they want this fantasy to be fulfilled, like in the case of threesomes which many say are damaging to marriages.

How does one differentiate?
If they are both comfortable with a threesome fantasy , how would they know that they are crossing some invisible line?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

no but i do about other peoples wives!


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok.
> Back when we were just married, my wife had a exhibitionist fantasy. She is a very quiet , soft spoken person, but in the bedroom she's quite different.
> We have lots of mirrors in our bedroom because she likes to * see * everything.
> Some years later we did stuff in public,in places where we could have been caught,and she totally liked it. It is a huge turn on for her.
> ...


Well, if the conspiracy theorist guy is correct....i guess not many people will ever have to cross that bridge.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

missymrs80 said:


> Well, if the conspiracy theorist guy is correct....i guess not many people will ever have to cross that bridge.


People talk a lot of BS about threesomes. You will have poeple who admit to never even having considered one telling you that it is _guaranteed_ to end your marriage. That is absolute bollocks. 

There are thousands of happy couples out there doing this and there are thousands of unhappily divorced couples who have never gone near it. Blanket statements made from ignorance can usually be safely dismissed.

You will always hear about these things when they go wrong, and they do, but you rarely hear about them when it is a happy little kink between a husband and wife. 

I am not saying there are no dangers, of course there are, but there are dangers everywhere and there is a danger that comes with never taking risks.


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## suspiciousOfPeople (Sep 5, 2012)

My wife and I had a pretty typical sex life kinda plain, twice a week, maybe. However, when I introduced role playing and fantasy's into our bedroom our sex life went into overdrive. Now we are pretty much anything goes. Our #1 rule is that we are always together. Is it perfect? Nope. Is it for anyone else? probably not. However, we would never go back to the way it was!

Yes we have done MFM, FMF, MFMF, MFMFMFMFMF, sex in public, sex in church, sex in KFC, .....


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

suspiciousOfPeople said:


> My wife and I had a pretty typical sex life kinda plain, twice a week, maybe. However, when I introduced role playing and fantasy's into our bedroom our sex life went into overdrive. Now we are pretty much anything goes. Our #1 rule is that we are always together. Is it perfect? Nope. Is it for anyone else? probably not. However, we would never go back to the way it was!


Me neither. Our sex life is like it was when we were first together...no, I take that back, it is better.


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## suspiciousOfPeople (Sep 5, 2012)

im not pushing the swinging lifestyle. I am pushing that it is your marriage therefore you and your significant other define the boundaries and rules. My wife and I still have & follow our rules & stay within our boundaries when we are not together. However, when we are together and going out (on a date) those rules & boundaries are relaxed (if we are both in agreement). Also, if one of us goes and breaks one of the rules there is usually hell to pay.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

fortheloveofit2 said:


> The entire idea of wholly possessing our spouses breeds deep-rooted dependencies, infantile and childish emotions and jealousy. I thought marraige was more about partnership and security not control.


How so? i own my wife and im not dependent, not childish, and not jealous.  Perhaps those who dont see it this way dont have very deep rooted relationships and their relationships are formed on modern ideas of political correctness. People were considered property in marriages for years. Your thought process is rather modern and lacking much support beyond the 1970's feminist movement which has yet to be proven a success and most probably only increased the statistical divorce rate and put more people on antidepressants. I am pretty sure in our marriage, we are happier than many and have a much lower chance of ever having a divorce as our beliefs aren't formed on each of us being independent and individuals but we take a much more historical approach that isnt based on the last fifty years of failed thinking.


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

bribrius said:


> How so? i own my wife and im not dependent, not childish, and not jealous.  Perhaps those who dont see it this way dont have very deep rooted relationships and their relationships are formed on modern ideas of political correctness. People were considered property in marriages for years. Your thought process is rather modern and lacking much support beyond the 1970's feminist movement which has yet to be proven a success and most probably only increased the statistical divorce rate and put more people on antidepressants. I am pretty sure in our marriage, we are happier than many and have a much lower chance of ever having a divorce as our beliefs aren't formed on each of us being independent and individuals but we take a much more historical approach that isnt based on the last fifty years of failed thinking.


Costa, I guess there's no dispute about whether anyone said they "own" their spouse.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

bribrius said:


> How so? i own my wife and im not dependent, not childish, and not jealous.  Perhaps those who dont see it this way dont have very deep rooted relationships and their relationships are formed on modern ideas of political correctness. People were considered property in marriages for years. Your thought process is rather modern and lacking much support beyond the 1970's feminist movement which has yet to be proven a success and most probably only increased the statistical divorce rate and put more people on antidepressants. I am pretty sure in our marriage, we are happier than many and have a much lower chance of ever having a divorce as our beliefs aren't formed on each of us being independent and individuals but we take a much more historical approach that isnt based on the last fifty years of failed thinking.


*Women* were considered property in marriage. Not men, not 'people'. Women. 

No one owns me. I own no-one. That's human rights 101. My husband and I are free individuals who choose to be together. We have a fabulously successful marrriage.

Back to the OP, some fantasies are fun to act out, some are fun to talk about and imagine. Some are impossible ( let's all feel sorry for the centaur fetishists). 

And I so agree with Johnnycomelately, there are plenty of successful relationships which don't have hard boundaries around sexual exclusivity. And plenty of unsuccessful ones that do.


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

bribrius said:


> How so? i own my wife and im not dependent, not childish, and not jealous.  Perhaps those who dont see it this way dont have very deep rooted relationships and their relationships are formed on modern ideas of political correctness. People were considered property in marriages for years. Your thought process is rather modern and lacking much support beyond the 1970's feminist movement which has yet to be proven a success and most probably only increased the statistical divorce rate and put more people on antidepressants. I am pretty sure in our marriage, we are happier than many and have a much lower chance of ever having a divorce as our beliefs aren't formed on each of us being independent and individuals but we take a much more historical approach that isnt based on the last fifty years of failed thinking.


Bribrius,

Actually, you'd have to go back almost to Rome for the wife as property concept. (Ah the good old days, when a man could kill his wife just because he wanted to. Lest anyone misunderstand, I am trying to be facetious.)

But to look at more recent times where the wife was not owned, but certainly not an equal, there were other collateral consequences that went along with her less than full status. The wife could not own property and she could not vote; no more than your car can own property or vote. 

I get that you don't understand why a man would fantasize about sharing his wife. As I said above, it is an arousing thought for me and I don't understand why. Why would you? But many people question that fantasy without believing they own their wife. 

I'm curious, does your wife agree that you own her? Do you think she owns you, too, or is it a one-way proposition?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I guess my question is , how does a couple distinguish between an ok fantasy becoming reality and a fantasy that should remain just a fantasy, never to be fulfilled and acted upon. I'm assuming they both agree that they want this fantasy to be fulfilled, like in the case of threesomes which many say are damaging to marriages.
> 
> How does one differentiate?
> If they are both comfortable with a threesome fantasy , how would they know that they are crossing some invisible line?


For me, it's a definite line of fantasy if it inherently goes against my vision of marriage, what it entails, it's moral fiber.

I didn't marry Mrs. J...and company. I am a very sexually liberated, open person, but my actual thoughts about relationships have always been very traditional. I believe my marriage is between myself, and my wife. 

So in this case the idea of threesomes, and group sex, while sexually appealing, isn't even remotely enticing for real world application. I know because even when I was single I didn't pursue such actions. And my wife and I talked very frankly, and without judgment, about whether we wanted to implement these fantasies into our real life and my visceral reaction was NOPE, don't want it, don't need it. I don't even like sharing porn between the two of us in bed because it feels too crowded.

It is not hard for me at all to differentiate fantasy from reality. Participating in a threesome/moresome with my wife in fantasy has no more bearing on my real life than my fantasies of jumping off a building just to feel the rush have to do with me actually committing suicide.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I must admit that I am actually learning a lot about other couples attitudes towards sex from this thread.

I find the discussion very interesting!

Regarding the threesome fantasy
johnnycomelately said:
*"........You will always hear about these things when they go wrong, and they do, but you rarely hear about them when it is a happy little kink between a husband and wife. 

I am not saying there are no dangers, of course there are, but there are dangers everywhere and there is a danger that comes with never taking risks........"*
So it appears to me that both him and his wife are comfortable with it, and it works_ for them _.

I cannot argue against that.

SispiciousOfPeople basically said the same thing.

Now my position is neutral.
Concerning whether it right or wrong to have certain types of fantasies and to act on them, one of my favorite philosophers Friedrich Neitzche , once said:

*"......All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth........"*

Added to that, a lot of things we now consider " normal " in sex like masturbation , anal ,oral , role playing etc,were at one time considered taboo .


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

At the end of the day i think fantasies are a wonderful thing. They allow us to experience what we may not normally experience in real life. They allow us to sit with thoughts that are taboo. If not for fantasies....sex would be lame. Sex wouldnt even be sex IMO. I think we take a few steps back by using strong adjectives to shame one anothers sexuality. Not understanding it is one thing...same with not wanting to do it....but forming such harsh conclusions about someones personality is a little much. 

I feel the need to defend my DH too. He is not sick, disturbed, part of a conspiracy theory etc. He is a model citizen, a great AMAZING husband, pays his taxes, returns money if he finds it, helps the elderly, donates to charity, loves his family, and always has your back. I really could go on and on.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

And yes to all things Neitzche


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> And yes to all things Neitzche


:toast:


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

We are fooling ourselves if we think that we can go through our lives in a sexual isolation tank. We can either ignore the elephant in the living room or try and deal with it in a positive way. Look around at the disaster that is the traditional, stepford wives, 'monogamous' marriage. It doesn't work. It might have worked when the wife was stuck at home baking apple pies with no FB and Ash13y m4d1s0n, but that genie is out of the bottle

I want my marriage to survive. I am not going to let it die for fear of being open with my wife about my sexuality or hers. We are sexual beings, that doesn't just die when we get married. Her sexuality is an important part of her; I want to understand it. I now have a better understanding of who she is, what she likes, what turns her on, and off. I know what kind of guy she might develop a crush on.

I would rather be open, informed and prepared when it comes to my wife's feelings and desires than to be blind-sided and end up posting in the Coping with Infidelity thread. Openness is the way forward for me.

Imagine this; your wife sees someone at an event who has caught her eye, they flirt a little, there is a little banter, then something interrupts this and she comes home. If it is my wife, who knows that I understand that stuff like this happens, she tells me. I might feel a pang of jealousy, but I am informed so I don't feel paranoid and can laugh it off. That makes me seem stronger and more self-confident. The interaction with the hopeful loses some of its mystique because it is not taboo and it's not a secret. Secrets are exciting. Something your spouse knows about just doesn't quite have the same thrill to it.

Now if is the wife of a jealous husband she gets home and says nothing. He asks how the event was and she says 'fine...boring'.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I was thinking about this thread and I am going to modify one of my posts a bit.

Earlier I said that nothing my husband could fantasize about could disgust me. While this is true, in that I know my husband very, very well and have a good understanding of his character and preferences, that's not to say any fantasy or proclivity would be A'okay with me. 

If my husband got turned on by inflicting real pain, if he was a necrophiliac or paedophile, I would not accept that, even as fantasy. 

Just wanted to make that clear. And to go on from Carribean Man's thoughts, I don't even think fantasizing about those things is wrong, providing it is strictly fantasy, but I think it speaks to a character I would not want to be involved with.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

DP


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

TP


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

smilinatu said:


> Costa, I guess there's no dispute about whether anyone said they "own" their spouse.


HAHA... Missed this guy, i thought you were talking about another post made here. Anyway, i'm pretty sure he is just taking the piss with you all.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> I want my marriage to survive.





> Imagine this; your wife sees someone at an event who has caught her eye, they flirt a little, there is a little banter, then something interrupts this and she comes home.


One of these days you can find out that these two things are very hard to put together. A "surviving" marriage where a woman openly flirts with another guy, even if she tells you is on its death throws. 

You are sorely mistaken if you think this "openness" has anything on the traditional way. What it does is make the first stage of a possible affair happen easier and right under your nose. Do you think she will still be open when the guy she flirts with takes her to the parking lot to test the car springs?

You are way better served with a woman who simply doesn't put herself there. That knows that she shouldn't open that door. That there is no possible way flirting with an OM will come to anything good. But of course, you have to be able to choose such a woman in the first place.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Personally I'll just be happy showing my wife off, or walk into a sauna with her nude in front of everyone... like showing off a hot car lol

Still a fantasy of mine to share her, even though I've shared other women in the past and I subconsciously and unintentionally lost respect for them (it takes the most secure/strong relationship to survive and enjoy sharing)

But always the same response from my wife... "FK OFF!" "I'M NOT SOME **** YOU CAN PASS AROUND" etc etc

Still remember when my wife and I were doing an erotic photo-shoot and her spreading/posing solo and with me for the camera-man... hell I wanna do that again >.<


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

costa200 said:


> One of these days you can find out that these two things are very hard to put together. A "surviving" marriage where a woman openly flirts with another guy, even if she tells you is on its death throws.
> 
> You are sorely mistaken if you think this "openness" has anything on the traditional way. What it does is make the first stage of a possible affair happen easier and right under your nose. Do you think she will still be open when the guy she flirts with takes her to the parking lot to test the car springs?
> 
> You are way better served with a woman who simply doesn't put herself there. That knows that she shouldn't open that door. That there is no possible way flirting with an OM will come to anything good. But of course, you have to be able to choose such a woman in the first place.


While I don't share his view of marriage, current divorce rates among "traditional marriage" suggests that you are wrong.

Marriage, at least in this society, is an institution in crisis. And it's not the swinging couples who brought it to it's knees.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

smilinatu said:


> Bribrius,
> 
> Actually, you'd have to go back almost to Rome for the wife as property concept. (Ah the good old days, when a man could kill his wife just because he wanted to. Lest anyone misunderstand, I am trying to be facetious.)
> 
> ...


guess you didnt read the other thread. My wife was given to me for a debt, in a round about way. And her parents asked me to take her when she became pregnant. She was given to me. She was raised very old fashioned, and if anyone had doubts about the arrangement it would have actually been me during my early twenties. She has been full on board with how our relationship is since she was a teenager. I however, took some time to get used to the idea, of being completley responsible for her and everything else and i still have my times which i kind of wish i could get a break. But i adapted quite well once i figured out exactly what i was in to. We have very close to a arranged marriage. Her family did apologize for not sending her with a dowry, to give you a idea. But then again i impregnated her out of wedlock so there wasnt any choice, both our families had ecouraged the arrangment and us being of similiar mindset we went along with it (though it took me a while). Our marriage is also supported by my side of the family. As we both come from religious and very old fashioned type backgrounds. She has no qualms of being owned. Her eyes light up over the fact she is. She is very proud of her position. If you noticed on the other thread. we actually have a chattel marriage. Doesnt hold up very well in u.s. law, but our families are well aware and hold me accountable for her as such. If you notice in the threads, i mention i support her, even when we separated for a period. i am required to do this under the original agreement. Even before we married i supported her. i agreed to do this. Im not allowed to ask her to work, and working for her is considered unfavorable. I am required to provide for her and maintain her standard of living. I am not allowed a divorce either, as is how we were raised and our agreement from then. Once married short of infidelity im not allowed to divorce her. She also has a prenup guaranteeing support for a period, and a substantial cashout if i break this agreement and ever divorce her. We are normally married as well, church wedding. Traditional, traditional vows. Our families came together for the event. It was a pretty significant thing. And as i stated we track our geneology. Soon as we were together we got a line in the family history and it was entered in. That is how my family looks at it. It is pretty serious. We have grown to love eachother to no end though. so i would say we have a very successful and committed marriage.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Lyris said:


> I was thinking about this thread and I am going to modify one of my posts a bit.
> 
> Earlier I said that nothing my husband could fantasize about could disgust me. While this is true, in that I know my husband very, very well and have a good understanding of his character and preferences, that's not to say any fantasy or proclivity would be A'okay with me.
> 
> ...


You are describing DSM diagnoses...severe pathology...not fantasies.


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

If you say so.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Lyris said:


> And to go on from Carribean Man's thoughts, I don't even think fantasizing about those things is wrong, providing it is strictly fantasy, but I think it speaks to a character I would not want to be involved with.


Really, how does it speak to their character.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

bribrius said:


> guess you didnt read the other thread. My wife was given to me for a debt, in a round about way. And her parents asked me to take her when she became pregnant. She was given to me. She was raised very old fashioned, and if anyone had doubts about the arrangement it would have actually been me during my early twenties. She has been full on board with how our relationship is since she was a teenager. I however, took some time to get used to the idea, of being completley responsible for her and everything else and i still have my times which i kind of wish i could get a break. But i adapted quite well once i figured out exactly what i was in to. We have very close to a arranged marriage. Her family did apologize for not sending her with a dowry, to give you a idea. But then again i impregnated her out of wedlock so there wasnt any choice, both our families had ecouraged the arrangment and us being of similiar mindset we went along with it (though it took me a while). Our marriage is also supported by my side of the family. As we both come from religious and very old fashioned type backgrounds. She has no qualms of being owned. Her eyes light up over the fact she is. She is very proud of her position. If you noticed on the other thread. we actually have a chattel marriage. Doesnt hold up very well in u.s. law, but our families are well aware and hold me accountable for her as such. If you notice in the threads, i mention i support her, even when we separated for a period. i am required to do this under the original agreement. Even before we married i supported her. i agreed to do this. Im not allowed to ask her to work, and working for her is considered unfavorable. I am required to provide for her and maintain her standard of living. I am not allowed a divorce either, as is how we were raised and our agreement from then. Once married short of infidelity im not allowed to divorce her. She also has a prenup guaranteeing support for a period, and a substantial cashout if i break this agreement and ever divorce her. We are normally married as well, church wedding. Traditional, traditional vows. Our families came together for the event. It was a pretty significant thing. And as i stated we track our geneology. Soon as we were together we got a line in the family history and it was entered in. That is how my family looks at it. It is pretty serious. We have grown to love eachother to no end though. so i would say we have a very successful and committed marriage.


I'm sorry, weren't you the one earlier in this thread going on about how you can't even fathom why a man would even fantasize about a threesome with his wife and another man...

Yet you have a SLAVE WIFE?

:scratchhead:


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I'm sorry, weren't you the one earlier in this thread going on about how you can't even fathom why a man would even fantasize about a threesome with his wife and another man...
> 
> Yet you have a SLAVE WIFE?
> 
> :scratchhead:


i really dont see anything wrong with owning my wife. Suppose it is in what you consider "own". It isn't like she is "owned" like my house. It is a different sense of the word. Her role and placement is of much higher significance. She has a certain status and rights of provisions that go with that.
It is pretty obvious if you know us. Ask my family, her family, her, any of our friends, people we know, people from the church we married in. It isn't like anyone doesnt know. 

I have no moral issues with that. But for instance i wouldnt introduce porn into our marriage. Introducing porn would be a moral issue for me (not to mention i get nothing out of it because it isnt the real thing).
Inviting others into our marriage, would be a moral issue for me. Not providing for her, would be a moral issue for me. There are a list of things that would be moral issues, concerning our relationship. For instance the menstrual cycle, no sex. Against our beliefs. I could go on and on.
Owning her really isnt a moral dilemma. It seems pretty normal.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Bribrius, how old were u and your wife when u met? How old were u when u got married?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

bribrius said:


> i really dont see anything wrong with owning my wife. Suppose it is in what you consider "own". It isn't like she is "owned" like my house. It is a different sense of the word. Her role and placement is of much higher significance. She has a certain status and rights of provisions that go with that.
> It is pretty obvious if you know us. Ask my family, her family, her, any of our friends, people we know, people from the church we married in. It isn't like anyone doesnt know.
> 
> I have no moral issues with that. But for instance i wouldnt introduce porn into our marriage. Introducing porn would be a moral issue for me (not to mention i get nothing out of it because it isnt the real thing).
> ...


Yes, knowing how you view a LOT of things... of course owning your wife is normal to you. She is a human being, not some THING you can purchase. She has freewill, just as ANY person God has created. (Yes, I am aware many who are posting in this thread are not Christian or particularly religious, but bribrius claims to be a Christian) Unbelievable... no, not really. I have read many of your posts. Oh, and that BS about her being used to settle a debt...you know very well that guy had no right doing that. And she was shocked to learn of it. I remember that part. And yet, sad soul that she is, she came trotting back for more. As I stated in another thread... I think it was concluded that she is codependent... makes perfect sense.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Bribrius your stuff doesnt add up. I think your full of it.


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Bribrius your stuff doesnt add up. I think your full of it.


I have to agree with you, MissyMrs. Sounds like horse-droppings to me.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Bribrius you sound like your hitting the pipe While simultaneously tring to come up with fresh material for a story set in late 19th century Utah. 

Is it moral to call your wife paranoid and cheat on her with your babysitter? Playa please


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Bribrius, how old were u and your wife when u met? How old were u when u got married?


she was 18 and i was 23
married, she was 26 i was 31
about five years ago.
The agreement with her family was when just turned 19 and i was 24. Thats more of the actual beginning of the relationship, as far as the responsibility for her began. 
i think...
My memory sucks when it comes to dates and times.
Basically, she has been there since she was eighteen and she is 31 now.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I tell my wife "I own her" during sex from time to time
I tell her outside of sex and it's time to put on the boxing gloves!!!


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Bribrius you sound like your hitting the pipe While simultaneously tring to come up with fresh material for a story set in late 19th century Utah.
> 
> Is it moral to call your wife paranoid and cheat on her with your babysitter? Playa please


that was when i was 25 or so. i was supporting her but kind of on and off with her. Didnt know what i wanted. She basically just stayed with the child and waited for me. We weren't married then. But i already had the agreement to provide for her and our families both held me to that. Even though for a period i wanted out of the entire thing.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

What religion are you. Im having a hard time wrapping my mind around your wording.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> What religion are you. Im having a hard time wrapping my mind around your wording.


Logos. Dont have a religion. i just follow.
But if you are looking for something more substantial old judaism and millerite are both in the family background.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I tell my wife "I own her" during sex from time to time
> I tell her outside of sex and it's time to put on the boxing gloves!!!


From the sound of some of your other posts you sure are paying for her, you might as well own her. :rofl:


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

So let me get this straight...

Your "wife" is a slave. 

You cheated on her with a babysitter.

And yet you're having a hard time even imagining a rather tame, rather common fantasy men have?

Dude, trust me, from a lot of people's perspectives your situation is the one that's very tough to swallow.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

jaquen said:


> So let me get this straight...
> 
> Your "wife" is a slave.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead:

:rofl:


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

costa200 said:


> One of these days you can find out that these two things are very hard to put together. A "surviving" marriage where a woman openly flirts with another guy, even if she tells you is on its death throws.
> 
> You are sorely mistaken if you think this "openness" has anything on the traditional way. What it does is make the first stage of a possible affair happen easier and right under your nose. Do you think she will still be open when the guy she flirts with takes her to the parking lot to test the car springs?
> 
> You are way better served with a woman who simply doesn't put herself there. That knows that she shouldn't open that door. That there is no possible way flirting with an OM will come to anything good. But of course, you have to be able to choose such a woman in the first place.


Look around this forum. It happens. Unless you marry a hermit your spouse will have contact with members of the opposite sex. Unless you marry a stone statue she will be attracted to other people from time to time. You can bury your head in the sand about it or deal with it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

bribrius said:


> Logos. Dont have a religion. i just follow.
> But if you are looking for something more substantial old judaism and millerite are both in the family background.


OHHH ok, now I get it.... Both of which I am familiar with. My husband was raised Jewish (both sides of his family Jewish). Millerites were the start of Seventh Day Adventist. I must say, though... in all the studying I have done, I have not run into the nonsense you keep spewing. Seriously, even in the reading we (not just I) have done about the Millerites, none of what you have put out here meshes with it...Basically, you pick and choose what you want to believe, what you want to follow. Got it.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> OHHH ok, now I get it.... Both of which I am familiar with. My husband was raised Jewish (both sides of his family Jewish). Millerites were the start of Seventh Day Adventist. I must say, though... in all the studying I have done, I have not run into the nonsense you keep spewing. Seriously, even in the reading we (not just I) have done about the Millerites, none of what you have put out here meshes with it...Basically, you pick and choose what you want to believe, what you want to follow. Got it.


My bet is it is a creative writing project.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Look around this forum. It happens. Unless you marry a hermit your spouse will have contact with members of the opposite sex. Unless you marry a stone statue she will be attracted to other people from time to time. You can bury your head in the sand about it or deal with it.


Costa wasn't saying that we won't come in contact with members of the opposite sex. He wasn't saying there wouldn't be some kind of attraction. He was addressing the flirting. And I agree with him on that point. I once thought flirting with someone, even when married, was ok. I was wrong. There is a difference between being friendly and flirting with the opposite sex. You can be friendly without flirting.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> Costa wasn't saying that we won't come in contact with members of the opposite sex. He wasn't saying there wouldn't be some kind of attraction. He was addressing the flirting. And I agree with him on that point. I once thought flirting with someone, even when married, was ok. I was wrong. There is a difference between being friendly and flirting with the opposite sex. You can be friendly without flirting.


Yes, but it happens. To everyone. I sometimes flirt without even being conscious of it. My wife will tell me I was flirting, and when I think back she is right. 

The part I have a problem with is the denial. This idea that we aren't going to be attracted, flirt and even have crushes on people is ludicrous. If we deny it and get upset every time it happens it motivates our partners to be more secretive about it and therefore adds to the excitement. 

Being open and honest is much safer than being in denial of reality.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

jaquen said:


> While I don't share his view of marriage, current divorce rates among "traditional marriage" suggests that you are wrong.
> 
> Marriage, at least in this society, is an institution in crisis. And it's not the swinging couples who brought it to it's knees.


You can't distinguish in statistics divorces of couples who are "open" when they flirt from others who are traditional. But one thing that i do know is that this fake "marriage protection" of openness is all the rage while the divorce rate beats records. I don't think it's a coincidence. 

People use this shield of openness to initiate bad situations. Partners tell each other about flirting and that makes it ok and safe. It does no such thing. Often it boils down to that crap of "just friends" and "its's just a flirt and i would never" which soon escalates to "i love you but i'm not in love with you" and then "i'm banging the mailman".

It is a complete myth and modern fabrication that jealous partners (not talking about paranoid delusional jealousy) are cheated on more. Quite honestly its women magazine bullcrap that became the standard. 

In fact what does happen is that often people being cheated on are being accused of being jealous. Just take a look at the CWI section. 

And about swinging, i don't call that sort of relationship a marriage at all. I understand a marriage as a relationship of exclusivity between two people. If you bring more into it then the word has no meaning. 



> Look around this forum. It happens. Unless you marry a hermit your spouse will have contact with members of the opposite sex. Unless you marry a stone statue she will be attracted to other people from time to time. You can bury your head in the sand about it or deal with it.


There is a huge difference between finding one person attractive and acting on it by flirting. One is perfectly normal. There isn't a single human who can say they only have eyes for one person and is really truthful about it. We see attractive people every day. 

But when you pursue it you are opening a door that may end your marriage without you even know it. Personally if i ever find my partner doing that kind of crap it is quite possible that it will be a unique event because there will be no chance for another. And it works in my direction too. I don't put myself there and have no interest in doing so. 

If you have the misfortune to be with a partner that doesn't recognize the boundary of communication that separates healthy chatter from highly inappropriate exchanges you're screwed. It always begins there. 

I'm in a profession where i see this stuff happening continuously. People fall into it and their partners are made aware of what's what... Until they stop being filled in! And usually the trusting poor bastards are none the wiser because they "trust" and they have "open communication" and "we are different because we communicate and we would never do that to one another". Hmmm... Yeah... I only wish i had some thousand euros for every time i saw that play out the wrong way.

Cheating can happen in every sort of relationship. But you really don't need to make it easy.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

costa200 said:


> You can't distinguish in statistics divorces of couples who are "open" when they flirt from others who are traditional. But one thing that i do know is that this fake "marriage protection" of openness is all the rage while the divorce rate beats records. I don't think it's a coincidence.
> 
> People use this shield of openness to initiate bad situations. Partners tell each other about flirting and that makes it ok and safe. It does no such thing. Often it boils down to that crap of "just friends" and "its's just a flirt and i would never" which soon escalates to "i love you but i'm not in love with you" and then "i'm banging the mailman".
> 
> ...


By sticking your head in the sand you make it easy. By being open I make it much harder. 

My wife understands the boundaries very clearly, my boundaries are just different to yours. 

Obviously I wouldn't argue with your extensive professional experience but most of the men I have seen whose wives have been unfaithful have had closed lines of communication, not open ones.

Generally people who make absolute statements about whose marriage will and won't work, based on little information, are full of it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Yes, but it happens. To everyone. I sometimes flirt without even being conscious of it. My wife will tell me I was flirting, and when I think back she is right.
> 
> The part I have a problem with is the denial. This idea that we aren't going to be attracted, flirt and even have crushes on people is ludicrous. If we deny it and get upset every time it happens it motivates our partners to be more secretive about it and therefore adds to the excitement.
> 
> Being open and honest is much safer than being in denial of reality.


No, the flirting doesn't happen to everyone. It happens to those who don't make the conscious effort to NOT do it. Finding someone else attractive is not the same thing as flirting openly with them. Even the so-called "harmless" flirtations more often than not escalate to far worse. Like I said, I thought it was all harmless before. I thought my husband was crazy when he said "flirting equals cheating". From my experience... he is right. You can argue the point all you want, but it is something I have learned myself. And it's something I take care to guard myself against. I have learned that flirting is not a necessary part of being friendly.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> No, the flirting doesn't happen to everyone. It happens to those who don't make the conscious effort to NOT do it. Finding someone else attractive is not the same thing as flirting openly with them. Even the so-called "harmless" flirtations more often than not escalate to far worse. Like I said, I thought it was all harmless before. I thought my husband was crazy when he said "flirting equals cheating". From my experience... he is right. You can argue the point all you want, but it is something I have learned myself. And it's something I take care to guard myself against. I have learned that flirting is not a necessary part of being friendly.


Well, I disagree with you. Victorian-style restrictions on behaviour are unrealistic in this day and age, we need to be open and honest. I have never met a single person who has gone through a long marriage who hasn't flirted, at least mildly. So if you are going to deny that happens you are probably deluding yourself. Delusion and ignorance are rarely a recipe for success.


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## Theman361 (Oct 2, 2012)

Me and my wife were growing apart. We are good friends with a ex and his wife. Actually we are good friends with his wife he came as a package deal. My wife still has feelings. and we all flirt all the time. I talked my wife into playing with him in front of me and it was a huge turn on. Like watching live porn. We took a vacation and we all tried to swap partners but his wife just was not into it. He was already eating my wife out. But since vacation we have had a 3 some with him. My wife has had sex with his wife when they were alone and she has had her ex by herself. This has driven all of us closer and me and my wife has had sex multiple times a day


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Well, I disagree with you. Victorian-style restrictions on behaviour are unrealistic in this day and age, we need to be open and honest. I have never met a single person who has gone through a long marriage who hasn't flirted, at least mildly. So if you are going to deny that happens you are probably deluding yourself. Delusion and ignorance are rarely a recipe for success.


You can disagree all you want. As I said, this was MY experience. And I do know quite a few who feel as I have stated. And they have happy and successful marriages. I know that a lot of people flirt outside their marriages. I couldn't care less what they do in theirs, as long as they don't involve me in it. And, implying that I am deluded and ignorant? Far from it. If I was ignorant or deluded I would say it never happens. But I know it does. What I am saying is that I guard MYSELF against it. And those I know who don't engage in that activity do the same. If it works for you, fine... more power to you. But it doesn't work FOR ME. And from my own experience, my marriage is better NOW because we do NOT do it. FTR, we ARE open and honest with each other. This is what works FOR US.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> And, implying that I am deluded and ignorant? Far from it. If I was ignorant or deluded I would say it never happens.


I'm not implying that you are deluded or ignorant, I am saying that it is delusional to expect no attraction, flirting or crushes on others during the lifetime of a marriage. No sexually healthy person can go through their lives without these things happening, happily married or not. So they happen, so why not be open about that? 

You and Costa are suggesting that to be ignorant of these events is better. I believe that knowledge is power. We should know our spouses as well as we can so as to try and avoid being blind-sided by an affair.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Sorry about the hijack missy.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I'm not implying that you are deluded or ignorant, I am saying that it is delusional to expect no attraction, flirting or crushes on others during the lifetime of a marriage. No sexually healthy person can go through their lives without these things happening, happily married or not. So they happen, so why not be open about that?
> 
> You and Costa are suggesting that to be ignorant of these events is better. I believe that knowledge is power. We should know our spouses as well as we can so as to try and avoid being blind-sided by an affair.


I am not suggesting that at all! I said the flirting can be avoided if someone keeps himself/herself in check and does not ENGAGE in that activity. I never said that attractions never happen. And I said I know from MY OWN EXPERIENCE and that of people I KNOW, that yes, people CAN be happily married, and SEXUALLY happy, without flirting with other people. I NEVER said ANYTHING about not being attracted to someone else. And it's all fine to know that your spouse is flirting and open about it... totally different when that turns, subtly..EVEN when it is open. And it can STILL blind-side you. 

As for crushes? If you mean celebrity crushes, yes, I have had those. My husband has even teased me about that lol. But people I know and/or speak with on a regular basis? No. Again, this is something I guard MYSELF against because I know where it quite often leads. Not worth it to me. But this is what works in MY marriage. It doesn't make me any more wrong than it does you for having such things. You do what works for your marriage, I do what works for mine.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

costa200 said:


> You can't distinguish in statistics divorces of couples who are "open" when they flirt from others who are traditional. But one thing that i do know is that this fake "marriage protection" of openness is all the rage while the divorce rate beats records. I don't think it's a coincidence.
> 
> People use this shield of openness to initiate bad situations. Partners tell each other about flirting and that makes it ok and safe. It does no such thing. Often it boils down to that crap of "just friends" and "its's just a flirt and i would never" which soon escalates to "i love you but i'm not in love with you" and then "i'm banging the mailman".
> 
> ...


Where in the world are you getting your data that open marriages, and the level of openness you're describing above, is "all the rage"? Since when?

Not a single statistic about divorce cites "openness" as anywhere near the top of the list of leading causes of divorce.

That's up there with the people who think "the gays" are what is ruining traditional marriage.

You're blaming a scapegoat.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I'm not implying that you are deluded or ignorant, I am saying that it is delusional to expect no attraction, flirting or crushes on others during the lifetime of a marriage. No sexually healthy person can go through their lives without these things happening, happily married or not. So they happen, so why not be open about that?
> 
> You and Costa are suggesting that to be ignorant of these events is better. I believe that knowledge is power. We should know our spouses as well as we can so as to try and avoid being blind-sided by an affair.


Maricha75 is not suggesting willful ignorance. She's saying that she and her husband actively avoid flirting. She didn't say that the attractive men and women of the world melt away for them, or that they're actively out there flirting and pretending not to. She's saying that they both recognize this happens, and that their views, and her experience, have influenced their decision to avoid the action.

But she seems very well to know that the potential of these things happening is very real, and very prevalent.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Yes, but it happens. To everyone. I sometimes flirt without even being conscious of it. My wife will tell me I was flirting, and when I think back she is right.
> 
> The part I have a problem with is the denial. This idea that we aren't going to be attracted, flirt and even have crushes on people is ludicrous. If we deny it and get upset every time it happens it motivates our partners to be more secretive about it and therefore adds to the excitement.
> 
> Being open and honest is much safer than being in denial of reality.


Are you suggesting all couples should just allow flirting in their relationship? Believe it or not there are some of us who do not flirt around. Its not denial... its choice. Its not something everyone does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

What is the difference between flirting and being nice? My husband is an outgoing nice guy so i dunno. Usually women seem to flirt with him...right in front of me too (sales women, waitresses and such). My husband and i just give each other the "look" and laugh about it after. I really dont think too much about it.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Being nice. 

Brief glance and a quick hello.

Flirting.

Long up and down look, sexy smile, leaning close and saying... "Heeeeyyyy how's it going hot stuff...." 


That's how we see it anyway... like I said its different for each person and couple. My spouse had someone hit on him before and his reaction was to fart and say ... "huh... guess your blabbering just gives me gas..." he then snickered while the woman ran off gagging.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> What is the difference between flirting and being nice? My husband is an outgoing nice guy so i dunno. Usually women seem to flirt with him...right in front of me too (sales women, waitresses and such). *My husband and i just give each other the "look" and laugh about it after. I really dont think too much about it.*


The same thing happens with my wife and I.
I have read threads on this forum where some say that its wrong to flirt if you're married.
Maybe what I consider flirting is different to what they consider flirting.
Women always compliment me on how I dress etc, and I do the same sometimes with absolutely no sexual intention. I don't ask for names or phone numbers.
Men compliment my wife all the time,and I have no problem with it. 
I remember one incident where we were going for dinner at this restaurant on the top floor of a hotel. While we were walking towards the elevator a man left his wife ,and rushed over to us just to compliment my wife on her skirt and ask where she bought it.[ Unfortunately is was custom made by a local fashion designer.] 
So, while we were having dinner I kept teasing her about her new " boyfriend." It was harmless fun , at least to me.
But I have absolutely no problem with it [ flirting], just as long as it doesn't go overboard.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

What the heck.... that must have been one hellavu skirt! Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Being nice.
> 
> Brief glance and a quick hello.
> 
> ...


OMG! Gaia! I told you that Gate and my hubby were a lot alike! He would SOOO do this! LOL


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I think there's flirting, and then there's _FLIRTING_. People, men and women, are constantly complimenting me on my hair and asking how I do it etc etc. I have never taken it as a flirt. I tell them, we talk, and that's that. It would be totally different if some guy came up and started stroking my hair and leaning close and telling me how soft and sexy it is.

I would rather my husband did not share every little attraction he has to other women with me. I prefer to live in my little fantasy land where I am the sexiest woman on earth and he only has eyes for me. However, if he ever feels his attraction could get inappropriate, then yes I want him to share. Only then can we open windows between us and close the doors between him and her.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Nobody flirts with me


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## landon33 (Jul 13, 2012)

Gaia said:


> My spouse had someone hit on him before and his reaction was to fart and say ... "huh... guess your blabbering just gives me gas..." he then snickered while the woman ran off gagging.


Charming.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol indeed he is landon. Lol Maricha... scary isn't it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Gaia said:


> What the heck.... that must have been one hellavu skirt! Lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually it was a fish tail silk skirt.
[The ones that are short in front and longer behind.]
She wore a bustier top with it
But she looked really hot in it. All eyes were on her........


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I found out last night that I shared my ex wife many times.
> 
> I just didn't know about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ugh.... sorry to hear that bandit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

On the issue of what is flirting and what is just being nice --



Gaia said:


> Being nice.
> 
> Brief glance and a quick hello.
> 
> ...


As is so often the case, a large part of the disagreement here has to do with our individual definitions. We each have our own definitions of flirt, and hence we reach different conclusions about whether "flirting" is acceptable in a marriage.

Gaia, your example of flirting isn't what I think of when I think of flirting, it just seems lame. As awkward as I with women -- especially very attractive women I see as "out of my league" -- even I would never say something that ridiculous. It invites a belly laugh from the woman, rather than a response which tells me she finds me funny or interesting in some way. 

I often flirt. I will do it in front of my wife and when she's not there. If she wasn't there, I often tell her about it and the woman's reaction. (I suspect I tell her about the ones that I thought were particularly clever on my part.) When I flirt, I'm not trying to get laid. I'm just trying to get some positive reaction from a woman I find attractive. A positive response is good for the ego, no matter who you are or what the issue is; and the more appealing the woman is, the greater the high resulting from the positive reaction. That's what it is about for me, a response that tells me I'm acceptable in some way.

Mostly, my wife just kind of shrugs her shoulders as if to say, "there he goes again." I would not do this if my wife is feeling particularly insecure or at any time with a woman she found threatening. Nonetheless, I am a happier person and a better husband to her when I feel good about myself, and if something as innocent as what I described can make me feel that way, I think it's OK.

Yes, there can be responses that are more than I'm looking for. One night recently I told an attractive woman in a flirtatious way that I was sorry if my noticing her across the room earlier in the evening made her feel uncomfortable. She responded saying, nothing I could do would make her feel uncomfortable. Since I found her very attractive, I ended that conversation immediately. (As I recall, I went to the bathroom.) The danger from the exchange was relatively low since I am a coward when it comes to my marriage. The reward was great. She had told me she liked me and I felt very good about myself. I, for one, plan on continuing such behavior, even though I will run away from responses that are a bit too "inviting."


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol smilinatu my example was meant to point out that any vocal or physical gesture that's done in a suggestive manner is considered flirting to us. Tone of voice and body language says a lot. Like I said though... the definition of flirting is different for each couple. Some would be fine with a man running up and ogling his wife while inquiring about her skirt like in caribbeans case. My spouse wouldn't have been if that had happened to us although I know damn well it never would. 


Another example would be... I'm fine with a woman saying hello, inquiring about our kids, ect but if she were all giggly and flipping her hair and batting eyelashes.... I wouldn't be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Nobody flirts with me


they prob. do and you just don't realize it.


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## suspiciousOfPeople (Sep 5, 2012)

costa200 said:


> One of these days you can find out that these two things are very hard to put together. A "surviving" marriage where a woman openly flirts with another guy, even if she tells you is on its death throws.
> 
> You are sorely mistaken if you think this "openness" has anything on the traditional way. What it does is make the first stage of a possible affair happen easier and right under your nose. Do you think she will still be open when the guy she flirts with takes her to the parking lot to test the car springs?
> 
> You are way better served with a woman who simply doesn't put herself there. That knows that she shouldn't open that door. That there is no possible way flirting with an OM will come to anything good. But of course, you have to be able to choose such a woman in the first place.


We do *NOT* have an open marriage. 

Your assumptions about whether someones wife, who is in the lifestyle, is throwing herself out at every swinging d!ck is just wrong. When you assume you tend to make an a$$ of yourself. So please dont assume.


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## suspiciousOfPeople (Sep 5, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Flirting.
> 
> Long up and down look, sexy smile, leaning close and saying... "Heeeeyyyy how's it going hot stuff...."


I did exactly that this past weekend when the Mrs. and I went out. I was checking out and flirting with every hottie in the bar! :smthumbup:


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol I could not and would not put up with that. My spouse wouldn't either... were both territorial.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## suspiciousOfPeople (Sep 5, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Lol I could not and would not put up with that. My spouse wouldn't either... were both territorial.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We have times when we are territorial. Most of the time, when we go out, its all about us and no one else. Its just sometimes we get a little frisky or feel a bit kinky.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

jaquen said:


> For me, it's a definite line of fantasy if it inherently goes against my vision of marriage, what it entails, it's moral fiber.
> 
> I didn't marry Mrs. J...and company. I am a very sexually liberated, open person, but my actual thoughts about relationships have always been very traditional. I believe my marriage is between myself, and my wife.
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree. This is our hard and fast line as well and is based on our moral and religious values. We did have a sexual experience that involved others at one point in our marriage. It taught us that we never wanted to do that again. Our fantasy line in the sand now is that to make it reality it can only involve the Mrs and myself. Sex in public is as far as it goes. We're mostly just into fantasy now.

Off topic, my wife always says that she's mine. That she belongs to me. Do you think she thinks I own her?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I flirt all the time. My wife gets flirted with but she doesn't realize it most of the time. I remember one time this guy was talking to her about his olive oil business and was about to ask her out for dinner. He got as far as "we could talk about this more later" when I walked up and took a sip out of her coffee. He stopped mid sentence and asked her if I was her husband. She smiled sweetly and said yes. He was obviously hitting on her but I trust her. She trusts me. If your spouse isnt trustworthy then stay away from flirting. If they are trustworthy then have fun.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

sandc said:


> I flirt all the time. My wife gets flirted with but she doesn't realize it most of the time. I remember one time this guy was talking to her about his olive oil business and was about to ask her out for dinner. He got as far as "we could talk about this more later" when I walked up and took a sip out of her coffee. He stopped mid sentence and asked her if I was her husband. She smiled sweetly and said yes. He was obviously hitting on her but I trust her. She trusts me. If your spouse isnt trustworthy then stay away from flirting. If they are trustworthy then have fun.


My wife does this. She talks about how _nice _a guy is. As in 'all the guys in that office are so nice!' Funny, I didn't find them that nice.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

suspiciousOfPeople said:


> We do *NOT* have an open marriage.
> 
> Your assumptions about whether someones wife, who is in the lifestyle, is throwing herself out at every swinging d!ck is just wrong. When you assume you tend to make an a$$ of yourself. So please dont assume.


And what kind of image do you pass when you read it wrong?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Lol smilinatu my example was meant to point out that any vocal or physical gesture that's done in a suggestive manner is considered flirting to us. Tone of voice and body language says a lot. Like I said though... the definition of flirting is different for each couple. *Some would be fine with a man running up and ogling his wife while inquiring about her skirt like in caribbeans case. My spouse wouldn't have been if that had happened to us although I know damn well it never would.
> *
> 
> Another example would be... I'm fine with a woman saying hello, inquiring about our kids, ect but if she were all giggly and flipping her hair and batting eyelashes.... I wouldn't be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wouldn't a husband watching this happen without saying or doing anything be considered a cuckhold? I don't think of it any other way now.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Wouldn't a husband watching this happen without saying or doing anything be considered a cuckhold? I don't think of it any other way now.


Are you suggesting Caribbean is a cuckhold?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

No. Just...no. I am bowled over by some of the stuff I read on TAM. It gets wilder, weirder, and stranger with each passing day.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Are you suggesting Caribbean is a cuckhold?
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> No. Just...no. I am bowled over by some of the stuff I read on TAM. It gets wilder, weirder, and stranger with each passing day.


*No*. I am suggesting that is how I read it. I am suggesting there are folks who let this stuff happen and say or do nothing, like me.

I am wondering what the appropriate response is when this happens. Apparently, I did not respond correctly. 

My ex said, "Why won't you fight for me?" I took that to mean fist fight and I had no intention of getting into a fist fight. However, there is a right way to respond and I was hoping for some input.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Are you suggesting Caribbean is a cuckhold?
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> No. Just...no. I am bowled over by some of the stuff I read on TAM. It gets wilder, weirder, and stranger with each passing day.


Funny thing is the way it happened.
I saw the guy WITH HIS WIFE looking at us as we were walking. He came across,said good evening, to US, complimented my wife on how she was looking,and especially her skirt. 
I don't consider that ogling.
He asked US where did we got it.
I replied.
Then he politely said enjoy your evening and went back to his wife.

I don't think that his actions were disrespectful to me or rude to her.
And who knows if it was his wife who prompted him to enquire?

So what should I have done, punched him in the nose?:rofl:

Nah.
Like I said in my original post nothing's wrong with a little _respectful_ flirting.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> *No*. I am suggesting that is how I read it. I am suggesting there are folks who let this stuff happen and say or do nothing, like me.
> 
> I am wondering what the appropriate response is when this happens. Apparently, I did not respond correctly.
> 
> My ex said, "Why won't you fight for me?" I took that to mean fist fight and I had no intention of getting into a fist fight. However, there is a right way to respond and I was hoping for some input.


The right way to respond is knowing when it gets disrespectful and addressing it forcefully.
You must know if your wife is uncomfortable with a situiation, or if you are uncomfortable with a situation.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> The right way to respond is knowing when it gets disrespectful and addressing it forcefully.
> You must know if your wife is uncomfortable with a situiation, or if you are uncomfortable with a situation.


Thank you. 

I have been in situations where I was uncomfortable, but did not know what to do. Guys talking to my wife at a bar and keeping her attention. I did not like this at all. When I said something, she would kind of disregard it, saying something like, "We're just talking. Go find someone to talk with." I would respond with something like, "I came here with you. I want to be with you and talk with you."

I am sure I am missing something.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I have been in situations where I was uncomfortable, but did not know what to do. Guys talking to my wife at a bar and keeping her attention. I did not like this at all. When I said something, she would kind of disregard it, saying something like, "We're just talking. Go find someone to talk with." I would respond with something like, "I came here with you. I want to be with you and talk with you."
> 
> I am sure I am missing something.


Wait, I'm confused.

Guys routinely come up and flirt with your wife while you're standing there next to her?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Wait, I'm confused.
> 
> Guys routinely come up and flirt with your wife while you're standing there next to her?


I am divorced now, but yes they did.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I have been in situations where I was uncomfortable, but did not know what to do. Guys talking to my wife at a bar and keeping her attention. I did not like this at all. When I said something, she would kind of disregard it, saying something like, "We're just talking. Go find someone to talk with." I would respond with something like, "I came here with you. I want to be with you and talk with you."
> 
> I am sure I am missing something.


No man can come up to my wife when she's in my company and hold a conversation with her without my permission.
The converse is also true.
That's gross disrespect, on both her path and the man's part.

If she's having a conversation while I'm gone, then when I return,she introduces the man to me and either I join the convo or he leaves.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> No man can come up to my wife when she's in my company and hold a conversation with her without my permission.
> The converse is also true.
> That's gross disrespect, on both her path and the man's part.
> 
> If she's having a conversation while I'm gone, then when I return,she introduces the man to me and either I join the convo or he leaves.


Trying to learn here.

How do you make sure that he leaves? What types of things do you say or do?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I am divorced now, but yes they did.


That baffles me. My wife is routinely hit on, but that never happens when I'm actually there with her.

How does that even happen? 

:scratchhead:


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

jaquen said:


> That baffles me. My wife is routinely hit on, but that never happens when I'm actually there with her.
> 
> How does that even happen?
> 
> :scratchhead:


I am with you on this one. You have to be a brazen d'ckhead to hit on someone's misses blatantly while they are there.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Maybe she let it be known she was looking for a change?
Maybe she was already in an affair and they all knew, but I did not?
Maybe she had a reputation for being promiscuous?

I remember, once, after we were married, we were out and I saw a friend. He knew her. He said to me, "I knew you got married, but I didn't know you married her! If I knew that, I would have told you not to marry her. I think she dated every guy in high school." 

I chuckled a little and thought, "He's just goofing around." My wife said to him, "Shut uuupp." Later, when I asked if she wanted to go back there, she said, "I don't like that place." Red flags all over and I was sooo in love with her I would not look at them. 

Why would she buy me a brand new Harley if she didn't love me?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

2ntnuf said:


> Maybe she let it be known she was looking for a change?
> Maybe she was already in an affair and they all knew, but I did not?


Wow, that is rough. Are you sure they were hitting on her? Maybe you were a little hypersensitive due to the marriage problems?


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I am with you on this one. You have to be a brazen d'ckhead to hit on someone's misses blatantly while they are there.


Its total disrespect on the guy's part and his wife for just trying to " shooo " her husband away and unacceptable. I would had spoken to wife immediately and nipped that in the bud so to speak !!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Wow, that is rough. Are you sure they were hitting on her? Maybe you were a little hypersensitive due to the marriage problems?


I didn't realize we had marriage problems. I didn't know what they were. I did nothing blatantly wrong, that I knew of.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

jaquen said:


> That baffles me. My wife is routinely hit on, but that never happens when I'm actually there with her.
> 
> How does that even happen?
> 
> :scratchhead:


When my fiancee was still married to her now ex-husband, she had this happen once. It was a guy her husband worked with, so he knew him, and knew she was his wife. All three start talking and then this guy starts flirting a bit with her, and it just builds and builds until he flat out suggested that they (her and him) would likely have a lot of fun together in bed. He didn't say it quite like that, but it was as clear as day what he was suggesting.

I think she said her ex-husband hardly said anything, just let it slide. She told him to piss off though.

Granted, her ex was a bit of a ****head, but still, that took a lot of balls to just toss that one out there like that in front of him.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> *No*. I am suggesting that is how I read it. I am suggesting there are folks who let this stuff happen and say or do nothing, like me.
> 
> I am wondering what the appropriate response is when this happens. Apparently, I did not respond correctly.
> 
> My ex said, "Why won't you fight for me?" I took that to mean fist fight and I had no intention of getting into a fist fight. However, there is a right way to respond and I was hoping for some input.


My husband doesnt ist fight for me either. Prob a good thing bc if his @ss is in jail....well, thats an extra problem we dont need. 

I knew of a guy who got in a fight someone else....when he pushed the other man, the man fell backwards and his skull cracked open essentially and he died. Now hes in jail for murder...from just pushing another person.


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Lol smilinatu my example was meant to point out that any vocal or physical gesture that's done in a suggestive manner is considered flirting to us. Tone of voice and body language says a lot. Like I said though... the definition of flirting is different for each couple. Some would be fine with a man running up and ogling his wife while inquiring about her skirt like in caribbeans case. My spouse wouldn't have been if that had happened to us although I know damn well it never would.
> 
> 
> Another example would be... I'm fine with a woman saying hello, inquiring about our kids, ect but if she were all giggly and flipping her hair and batting eyelashes.... I wouldn't be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See, I now think this last behavior is perfectly acceptable. When I was more insecure, my wife engaging in the behavior you described would have been threatening to me, and I'm embarrassed to say I probably would have given her "sheet" afterwards. I would have been afraid that she would find the other guy more attractive than me. I now think the reaction I had then is completely counterproductive. All that reaction does is to make my wife feel isolated. That will only make her less happy, which is what should threaten me.

By the way, I don't mean to sound like I'm tooting my own horn. I still have my moments of being threatened by the little stuff. I try not to have those moments and to remember the logic I am trying to articulate here. 

Also, everybody will have different lines that they draw within their relationship, and if the lines work for both in a couple that's all that matters. There is no right answer, only what works for a particular couple; and that may be very different for different people. I don't think people should say, as some others on this board have, that another couple's balance of this issue is right or wrong.


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

sandc said:


> I flirt all the time. My wife gets flirted with but she doesn't realize it most of the time. I remember one time this guy was talking to her about his olive oil business and was about to ask her out for dinner. He got as far as "we could talk about this more later" when I walked up and took a sip out of her coffee. He stopped mid sentence and asked her if I was her husband. She smiled sweetly and said yes. He was obviously hitting on her but I trust her. She trusts me. If your spouse isnt trustworthy then stay away from flirting. If they are trustworthy then have fun.


:iagree: Thank you for saying clearly, what I have been trying, but failing, to articulate.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Trying to catch up on here.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> When my fiancee was still married to her now ex-husband, she had this happen once. It was a guy her husband worked with, so he knew him, and knew she was his wife. All three start talking and then this guy starts flirting a bit with her, and it just builds and builds until he flat out suggested that they (her and him) would likely have a lot of fun together in bed. He didn't say it quite like that, but it was as clear as day what he was suggesting.
> 
> I think she said her ex-husband hardly said anything, just let it slide. She told him to piss off though.
> 
> Granted, her ex was a bit of a ****head, but still, that took a lot of balls to just toss that one out there like that in front of him.


Similar, but not exactly what happened to me. We were in her brother's bar. This guy knew her brother as did others there. They did not know me much. I did not know them much. I did not know what to say either. I was shocked and in disbelief. When I asked about it later, she said it was nothing to worry about or something to that effect.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> My husband doesnt ist fight for me either. Prob a good thing bc if his @ss is in jail....well, thats an extra problem we dont need.
> 
> I knew of a guy who got in a fight someone else....when he pushed the other man, the man fell backwards and his skull cracked open essentially and he died. Now hes in jail for murder...from just pushing another person.


I am fifty. When I was nineteen, I got into a fight after a night out drinking. The guy called my house and told me to come out. I was in bed sleeping. I went out. I was deathly afraid. He was bigger than me and more experienced at fighting.

I tried to talk my way out of the fight. It didn't work. I ended up fighting him and nearly...well let's just say it ended up with me fighting two guys. Later, I was in front of a magistrate who fortunately felt sympathy for me since I was smaller than the other guy.

I never fought again. I don't know if I could now. I suppose if I had to I could. Just fear I guess.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Wait, I'm confused.
> 
> Guys routinely come up and flirt with your wife while you're standing there next to her?


Wow, I would make quite the scene if this happened to my wife and I. We don't go out to bars, but you never know when you're on vacation and enjoying a night out what some drunken JO may do or say. 

We also have a teenage daughter so recent family vacations have put me on high alert for her alone.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Lol smilinatu my example was meant to point out that any vocal or physical gesture that's done in a suggestive manner is considered flirting to us. Tone of voice and body language says a lot. Like I said though... the definition of flirting is different for each couple. Some would be fine with a man running up and ogling his wife while inquiring about her skirt like in caribbeans case. My spouse wouldn't have been if that had happened to us although I know damn well it never would.
> 
> 
> Another example would be... I'm fine with a woman saying hello, inquiring about our kids, ect but if she were all giggly and flipping her hair and batting eyelashes.... I wouldn't be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I never had a problem with what is said here in the second paragraph. Everyone talks. We have to be social. 

I am saying, my wife had a word she said when she was orgasming. Let's say that word was "happy". This one guy walks over to her and stands between us where we were sitting at the bar. My wife moved her chair back when I looked at the guy funny, to make more space for him, I guess. Most of the conversation was no big deal, no problem. Then I hear him say, "I want to hear you say 'happy'." 

I'm thinking, "What the hell?! Where did he hear that?"

I don't know what else was said. I was too pissed. Her response was to giggle a little and say, "Oh, yeah?"


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

smilinatu said:


> :iagree: Thank you for saying clearly, what I have been trying, but failing, to articulate.


This is what I should have done. Stupid me. I just never thought she was going to do anything. "She loves me, right?"

The ex had a lot of guys flirting with her. Most of the time it didn't bother me, but it gets old fast. I did some flirting then as well and that didn't change a thing. I guess she didn't want me. 

Sometimes I can be so caught up in me, I don't see what is in front of my face.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I never had a problem with what is said here in the second paragraph. Everyone talks. We have to be social.
> 
> I am saying, my wife had a word she said when she was orgasming. Let's say that word was "happy". This one guy walks over to her and stands between us where we were sitting at the bar. My wife moved her chair back when I looked at the guy funny, to make more space for him, I guess. Most of the conversation was no big deal, no problem. Then I hear him say, "I want to hear you say 'happy'."
> 
> ...


Right after that exchange she would have gotten my response from the delivery guy who served her the divorce papers.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Right after that exchange she would have gotten my response from the delivery guy who served her the divorce papers.


I wouldn't even have waited that long. I'd have just left her there and went home to throw hers **** out on the lawn.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> No man can come up to my wife when she's in my company and hold a conversation with her without my permission.
> The converse is also true.
> That's gross disrespect, on both her path and the man's part.
> 
> If she's having a conversation while I'm gone, then when I return,she introduces the man to me and either I join the convo or he leaves.


Its been my experience that the guy will always leave when I show back up.

I had one experience were I was standing right next to my wife talking to a friend and a guy walked straight up to my wife, I look over and he's nose to nose with my wife and as he reaches out to crap her I crap both his hands and as I went to head butt him, every one in the place jumped us and started yelling "its her husband ,its her husband" they guy walked off.

Now if it was a girl................:scratchhead:

Years later when I confronted my wife about her affair's I have to believe it was one of her ONS. Even back then and today she does not remeber the guy......in fact theres alot of ONS were she couldn't remember the guy.

Thank God those drinking days and all the crap that came with it are over.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Right after that exchange she would have gotten my response from the delivery guy who served her the divorce papers.


I should have. I was insecure at that time. I could not believe she wanted to leave. I thought she was 'the one'.



kingsfan said:


> I wouldn't even have waited that long. I'd have just left her there and went home to throw hers **** out on the lawn.


Thought about this too. Didn't do it for fear of seeming abusive. Also, because I was afraid of her brother who owned the bar.



the guy said:


> Its been my experience that the guy will always leave when I show back up.
> 
> I had one experience were I was standing right next to my wife talking to a friend and a guy walked straight up to my wife, I look over and he's nose to nose with my wife and as he reaches out to crap her I crap both his hands and as I went to head butt him, every one in the place jumped us and started yelling "its her husband ,its her husband" they guy walked off.
> 
> ...


Not sure about that sort of exchange. I would have liked to have been more aggressive in handling everything. I sometimes think she wanted me to do something so she could laugh as I got pummeled. 

I wondered if this guy was a ONS. I think that is why I let it go. These thoughts are coming to me after the divorce. I have not been able to process all the info I got from before the separation. I am just starting to be able to look more closely at the issues we had. I am able to separate fact from fiction.

Believe me, I was screwed up really badly from the separation and all the embarassment that came shortly before it. It was like I had no say in any of it.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Well, this thread sure took a left turn.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

missymrs80 said:


> Well, this thread sure took a left turn.


If you love something set it free...


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## roverman (Aug 25, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Well, this thread sure took a left turn.




:iagree:


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

missymrs80 said:


> Well, this thread sure took a left turn.


So where are you and your husband on this? Have you shelved the fantasy or is it alive and well?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm not OP but it's still alive and well with us. Last night in fact. In the car. Driving home.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> So where are you and your husband on this? Have you shelved the fantasy or is it alive and well?


All is well  he read the thread (i didnt even tell him about it...he just knows i go on here).....for now im going to let it rest and not bring it up.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

missymrs80 said:


> All is well  he read the thread (i didnt even tell him about it...he just knows i go on here).....for now im going to let it rest and not bring it up.


Well, if he is taking advice from the forum I showed you he will be doing the same thing.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Which forum?


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> So he told me about this fantasy he had of me giving a bj to one of his best friends and him...and us basically having a swinger experience (he didnt use the word swinger). I was really shocked. But i was accepting of this and he made it clear it wasnt something he actually wanted to do but rather is a fantasy that pops up in his mind.
> 
> Any men out there had a similar fantasy? Wtf? I dont get it. When i think of another woman touching my DH i want to scream.


Hi, I found this thread when searching for more info about this, as I (a happily married man) actually 'suffer' from the same thing, so if you don't mind, I'd like to share some of my thoughts on it and hopefully get some feedback or opinions (minus the abuse, as I've seen much of in this thread - you can keep those to yourself please, thanks). 

- _If this should rather be a whole new thread, please let me know as I'm new on here and wasn't sure_ - 

So, feeling this way is confusing, disturbing, and *very* exciting all at the same time. :scratchhead: 

The fantasies are wild, usually involving another guy and often with me taking part, or at least in the room. There is no humiliation aspect involved, so its not technically cuckolding (I think), although she is very much in control, which I find sexy. 

She is very much aware of it, and we talk openly about it, but are a little too scared to actually act on it at the moment, so for now it's fantasy. We have pushed the line a bit, but never taken the leap. 

To be clear, the idea excites her too, although the motivation comes from my fantasies originally. My issues is that my instinct tells me it's a bad idea, for obvious reasons. I'm actually quite a jealous person and at times have even come across insecure. I have my reasons for that, which I'm not going to get into now.

The problem is that it turns me on like nothing else. I don't want to go into details really, but there's not many other things that excite me more than what I think about, and what we've spoken about. 

I have some theories, and would love to be able to come to some kind of peace with this, either way, but for now my head is all over the place and while we're still playing it safe by not exploring further, the desire to push for it is always there, driving me wild inside. 

OP, missymrs80 - it doesnt seem like your hubby is the same but my fantasies started out just like his, and for some reason have become more intense over the years. He possibly was too shy to tell you that it's a big deal, especially as you've reacted like you have (shock, etc), but him imagining you with his friend is quite explicit in it's own right. 

Thanks for reading and I apologise for the essay! I'd love to get some guidance and/or be able to discuss with others possibly.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

sandc said:


> SA I'm a little disappointed here. You've always been my sexual heroin. I mean heroine. Like a lot of the others here you appear to be blurring the lines between fantasy and reality. The question isn't would your husband actually go through with it. The question is about the fantasy. I would not allow it to actually happen either. If I actually saw this I would become enraged and OM would get very hurt. But in my head all bets are off. ANYTHING can and does happen in my head. This fantasy turns both S and C on so we just enjoy it for what it is.


I'm confused here. You haven't done anything like this in the past or have you?

I find the responses by some of the men on this thread interesting considering the flack I have gotten from my own situation. How dare I entertain my husband and his apparent sick fantasy that several other men on this very forum have themselves.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I find the responses by some of the men on this thread interesting considering the flack I have gotten from my own situation.


In a nutshell, what is that if I may ask? (I haven't caught up on your other posts yet unfortunately)


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I'm confused here. You haven't done anything like this in the past or have you?
> 
> I find the responses by some of the men on this thread interesting considering the flack I have gotten from my own situation. How dare I entertain my husband and his apparent sick fantasy that several other men on this very forum have themselves.


Full swap with another couple. This cured us of third parties in the marriage. I still have the threesome fantasy from time to time as does she. No intention of ever making it happen. Clear enough?


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

sandc said:


> Full swap with another couple. This cured us of third parties in the marriage. I still have the threesome fantasy from time to time as does she. No intention of ever making it happen. Clear enough?


Sure.. I guess in the same smarty tone.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Controlledchaos,
There are four outcomes if you actually do this. 
1. You both have a great time, no insecurities, everyone is happy (not very likely but possible)
2. You hate it she loves it 
3. You love it but she hates it
4. You both feel dirty, insecure, and hate it 

Maybe there are many other variations of those 4 that I listed. Search for threads started by HJ above. She's still working through the fallout. I was a member of another forum where the wife involved ended up leaving her husband for the OM in the threesome. My wife and I almost split up over our forray into an alternative lifestyle.

The risks involved just aren't worth it IMO.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

I married my wife so that she could be my "one and only," someone whose emotional and physical love that we could share exclusively. And I really thought that she felt the very same way about me.

Too bad that she had entertained other longstanding covert ideas about who to share herself with!


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## [email protected] (Oct 15, 2012)

My husband shared his fantasy with me early in our marriage and we have done this on occassion. Now that he is compeltely disabled, he has coninutued to push forward with an open marriage. I feel fortunate that my sexuality has not ended with his. Life is cruel and we have a choice to face reality or hide from it. I am as committed to him as he is to me and we have the emotional maturity to deal with this. I do not consider this cheating as it is consensual and he is always there with me. So go ahead and riducule and insult me. Call me sick, crazy and wierd. Abandon me like some of my friends have. We are Catholic and go to church with our kids every Sunday - so call us hypoctirs too. But his has saved our marriage. One of my friends says i am selfish and mean for doing this to my husband. But I took care of him for years through his injuries and never once did I even think of doing something without his knowledge or consent. I am not saying this is payback for my loyalty but this is how our relationship has evolved. I have always had a high libido and he will never recover. so quit being judgemental.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

sandc said:


> Controlledchaos,
> There are four outcomes if you actually do this.
> 1. You both have a great time, no insecurities, everyone is happy (not very likely but possible)
> 2. You hate it she loves it
> ...


What does OM mean? Other male? 

Yes I agree that there are many risks, and that's why we haven't tried anything yet as life is good otherwise. 
We played around a bit online last year with photos, chats, etc and it was possibly the most exciting period of our lives. So for us it was a bit like a 'safe swing' type of situation, as it was online only... hard to explain maybe. Anyway, it also brought with it some issues but we worked through them and I believe now we're in a better place. 

On your little list, obviously #1 would be the goal but the chances of the others, namely #2, are quite high. For now we are keeping it in fantasy land but I think we both feel that if we're in the right situation, with the right circumstances etc, something may happen one day.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

Also, I think I realise that there are consequences, hence not doing anything yet. What I'm seeking is answers as to why I feel like I do, and how to control it. :/


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

controlledchaos said:


> Also, I think I realise that their are consequences, hence not doing anything yet. What I'm seeking is answers as to why I feel like I do, and how to control it. :/


I think it's probably a good idea to have cold, careful think - while not in any way aroused - about what things would be like afterwards. From the 'specialness' of the relationship that can never be regained, the images you will have to live with, even if you bitterly regret them.

You might not regret them, and you might like the new relationship - but many don't, and many regret, as I understand it. What seems hot whilst aroused can seem like a really stupid idea after - or even before, when unaroused.


Even if you think, 'might be ok' - that 'might' is a big risk to take, considering what's at stake. Think risk/reward.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

Rags said:


> I think it's probably a good idea to have cold, careful think - while not in any way aroused - about what things would be like afterwards. From the 'specialness' of the relationship that can never be regained, the images you will have to live with, even if you bitterly regret them.
> 
> You might not regret them, and you might like the new relationship - but many don't, and many regret, as I understand it. What seems hot whilst aroused can seem like a really stupid idea after - or even before, when unaroused.
> 
> ...


Yes I understand that. What I'm trying to determine is why I feel like I do, and if I genuinely feel strong enough about it that it will make me okay after, and even want to do it again. Sometimes I feel like I will, but I'm very realistic about the consequences. 

I feel like I've hijacked this thread a bit, but hopefully the OP will get a bit of an insight into how some guys might feel anyway.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Rags said:


> *I think it's probably a good idea to have cold, careful think - while not in any way aroused - about what things would be like afterwards. From the 'specialness' of the relationship that can never be regained, the images you will have to live with, even if you bitterly regret them.*
> 
> You might not regret them, and you might like the new relationship - but many don't, and many regret, as I understand it. What seems hot whilst aroused can seem like a really stupid idea after - or even before, when unaroused.
> 
> ...


:iagree:
A lot of people forget that reason takes a back seat when passion if hot and in the driver's seat.
After all , men are supposed to be masters of their own desting.

Fantasies are just fantasies, there is never any negative fall out, like STD's , jealousy , resentment in our fantasies. 

However reality is something entirely different.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> A lot of people forget that reason takes a back seat when passion if hot and in the driver's seat.
> After all , men are supposed to be masters of their own desting.
> 
> ...


Buttt life is about living, and everyone has something that blows their hair back. If there's a chance to experience something that _really_ gets you going, you can understand why the temptation is always there.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

controlledchaos said:


> Buttt life is about living, and everyone has something that blows their hair back. If there's a chance to experience something that _really_ gets you going, you can understand why the temptation is always there.


Yes I can surely understand that.
But I also understand that nothing in this life is free!
There are consequences and rewards for everything.
Everyone should at least examine these_ before_ the act on any "offer/ opportunity ."


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

controlledchaos said:


> So, feeling this way is confusing, disturbing, and *very* exciting all at the same time. :scratchhead:


Why do you find it "confusing" and "disturbing"? It's such a common male fantasy that it puts you squarely in the norm. Multiple men "sharing" a woman, or women, is one of the oldest recorded human fantasies. It's one of the most regularly used porn scenarios, and is hugely popular. And yes it happens in real life more commonly than some might realize; I can count off the top of my head four good friends who have partaken in threesomes/moresomes, and some of those involved a couple guys "sharing" a woman or two. 

As you search for the specifics of why it turns you on, please keep in mind the context; it has turned scores of men on, across millennia. You are not unique, or unusual. Your journey, wherever it leads, might be best served by dropping the shame and dealing with this as objectively, and emotionless, as possible.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Why do you find it "confusing" and "disturbing"? It's such a common male fantasy that it puts you squarely in the norm. Multiple men "sharing" a woman, or women, is one of the oldest recorded human fantasies. It's one of the most regularly used porn scenarios, and is hugely popular. And yes it happens in real life more commonly than some might realize; I can count off the top of my head four good friends who have partaken in threesomes/moresomes, and some of those involved a couple guys "sharing" a woman or two.
> 
> As you search for the specifics of why it turns you on, please keep in mind the context; it has turned scores of men on, across millennia. You are not unique, or unusual. Your journey, wherever it leads, might be best served by dropping the shame and dealing with this as objectively, and emotionless, as possible.


I realise that it's fairly common, but I'm trying to deal with my struggle, not anybody elses.

I believe that we all have certain circumstances that may have led to feeling this way, and although I get that it's a big fantasy for many, I want to know why it's so strong with me. Why I can't just let it go, and why it turns me on more than even being with another female. I have a few theories, but it doesn't really help. 

And even though it's common, it doesnt make sense to me why I would want to share the woman I love, who is also my best friend and the mother of my children.. It's bizarre.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

controlledchaos said:


> I realise that it's fairly common, but I'm trying to deal with my struggle, not anybody elses.
> 
> I believe that we all have certain circumstances that may have led to feeling this way, and although I get that it's a big fantasy for many, I want to know why it's so strong with me. Why I can't just let it go, and why it turns me on more than even being with another female. I have a few theories, but it doesn't really help.
> 
> And even though it's common, it doesnt make sense to me why I would want to share the woman I love, who is also my best friend and the mother of my children.. It's bizarre.


I'm not commenting on your search to find the root cause. I'm just saying that it might be beneficial to do so without all the self judgement calls and shame. 

But if that doesn't help you, so be it. Good luck with your introspection.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I'm not commenting on your search to find the root cause. I'm just saying that it might be beneficial to do so without all the self judgement calls and shame.
> 
> But if that doesn't help you, so be it. Good luck with your introspection.


Well no, you haven't helped me, but thanks for wishing me luck  

There isn't really any shame, it's more confusion than anything. 
I take your point though.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> A lot of people forget that reason takes a back seat when passion if hot and in the driver's seat.
> After all , men are supposed to be masters of their own desting.
> 
> ...


This is so true !! In the middle of passion and when it seems as if all the oxygen goes " south " to our penises our head gets all fogged up with reality  it seems the second we have our orgasm ...... the reality of fantasies all comes back and we're or at least i am in denial that i actually wanted this or that ???

Another thing with a fantasy is that everything goes just as we envision the entire situation to go ...... no worries about STDs , jealousy , resentment ........ we always last just long enough for our spouse to have an orgasm , touches are all perfect , actions are done as planned with no hiccups. Thats why its called a ....... FANTASY


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

controlledchaos said:


> Well no, you haven't helped me, but thanks for wishing me luck
> 
> There isn't really any shame, it's more confusion than anything.
> I take your point though.


Is it a situation where you enjoy proving to your wife how you are the one for her. How you are more manly (not in the media idea but strength of sperm etc...there's biology behind this type of fantasy) where you get to "claim your territory". Pardon the analogy, but it's a form of marking your territory and the idea of doing that is a turn on for you? 

It's not my thing AT ALL, but I can see where some guys get off on it. I can't even fantasize about my wife being with me and someone else. The closest fantasy I have is having my wife riding a dildo/vibrator (or 2 or 3 hehe) while she gives me a BJ (with me in control of her head basically).


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Interesting thought Dad&Hubby. I don't enjoy the idea of someone else with my fiancee/wife either, however I would have guessed the appeal to it was that seeing another man desire your wife that way was a form of validation that you do indeed have an attractive wife. So it serves the duel role of verifying you're mate is desired by other males and that you are capable of attracting a 'prime' mate (essentially a verification of being an alpha male). That was my thought of what the appeal was to other men who do this.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Interesting thought Dad&Hubby. I don't enjoy the idea of someone else with my fiancee/wife either, however I would have guessed the appeal to it was that seeing another man desire your wife that way was a form of validation that you do indeed have an attractive wife. So it serves the duel role of verifying you're mate is desired by other males and that you are capable of attracting a 'prime' mate (essentially a verification of being an alpha male). That was my thought of what the appeal was to other men who do this.


I've always told my Mrs ( who by the way is extremely attractive IMHO ) that if she was huge and fugly then there wouldn't be any men drooling or flirting with her each time we go anywhere ..... be it a club , bar or even a grocery store  ??

It does get tiring some days  ...... but often than not i'm very proud that she is indeed my wife and that i am the one who will be hopping into bed with her later that evening !!! 

I also think my age ..... at 46 is 12 years older than my wife ...... has a lot to do with my attitude towards these " alpha " males hitting on her ????


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

For those of you who have read MMSL could this be related to sex rank? When we imagine our wives with other men is it a subconscious way to increase her sex ranking in our own minds?

I'm not saying actually going through with it, just IMAGINING.

drerio, I'm pathetic, couldn't stay away a day.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Does it improve her sex ranking for being attractive, or our sex ranking for having a mate who is attractive?


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> There are consequences and rewards for everything.


My LW told me about her first MMF: She was single, in college, knew that the guy she was with had this fantasy. So she suggested that he call his friend and see if he was busy... and his friend wasn’t, and he came over.

When she told me the story, I didn’t have a clue what three people might do together. I’'ve never fantasized about being aroused and naked in a room with another guy, and I still don’t have any idea as to what the porn industry does... 

So, I asked my wife why a guy would ever want to do something like that?

She said: “Haven’t you ever wanted to share something with your best friend?”

I said: “Yes, of course, I’d share extra football tickets, or share cab fare, or share pizza and a six-pack, or any other item that I might own or possess... but I‘ve never owned or possessed another human being - let alone a woman.” 

She just looked at me funny
- but she does that a lot-

So, no. I don’t understand this fantasy, and I seriously doubt that there are very men who actually have it. But, I do know that do people indeed have fantasies. Some people find a way to act on them, and others don’t. Even I have a fantasy! I fantasize about going back to the way things were... but that’s never going to happen. =(


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> Does it improve her sex ranking for being attractive, or our sex ranking for having a mate who is attractive?


Possibly a little of both? Don't know just throwing it out there for debate. 

I just know that at one point in my life I obsessed about it similar to what controlledchaos is going through now. I finally made my peace with it, stopped trying to understand it, and now keep it under control as just a fantasy.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> The closest fantasy I have is having my wife riding a dildo/vibrator (or 2 or 3 hehe) while she gives me a BJ (with me in control of her head basically).


That's a fantasy? That sounds like a tame, easy reality. 

Is she open to it?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

MrVanilla said:


> My LW told me about her first MMF:


I hate to be the acronym police, but I see this mistake being commonly made on the board.

A MMF is widely considered a bisexual threesome where the two men engage in sexual activity directly with one another, and one, or both, of the men do so with the woman. 

MFM, where both men have direct sexual contact with the woman, but not each other, is the kind of threesome being discussed in this thread.



MrVanilla said:


> She just looked at me funny
> - but she does that a lot-
> 
> So, no. I don’t understand this fantasy, and* I seriously doubt that there are very men who actually have it.*(


And you would be wrong.

I am really curious as to how you and your wife got together. She seems to be fully aware of the near infinite variables in human sexuality, and you seem to be totally oblivious.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

sandc said:


> Which forum?


I mean this thread


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

sandc said:


> For those of you who have read MMSL could this be related to sex rank? When we imagine our wives with other men is it a subconscious way to increase her sex ranking in our own minds?
> 
> I'm not saying actually going through with it, just IMAGINING.
> 
> drerio, I'm pathetic, couldn't stay away a day.


Ok ok...im just gonna say it. I think my sex rank is pretty high...


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

[/B]Originally Posted by Rags 
I think it's probably a good idea to have cold, careful think - while not in any way aroused - about what things would be like afterwards. From the 'specialness' of the relationship that can never be regained, the images you will have to live with, even if you bitterly regret them.[/B]


Its a fantasy. If you have a cold careful think while not aroused then its not a fantasy.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

He is responding to someone who is thinking of making the fantasy reality. He should have a long think before he does that.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

It does merit a post ejaculation think.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Ok ok...im just gonna say it. I think my sex rank is pretty high...


Is that proportional or inversely proportional to his / your fantasy?

[ just kidding..... ]


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> It does merit a post ejaculation think.


Haha, that made me laugh. It's true though - I have tended to think differently after.. that, but in time the guilt or confusion has gone away a bit. 

Thanks for some of the other theories, re. sex rank and all that. I don't agree with them though, at least not in my case. 

It's possibly more to do with seeing the woman that you love and find incredibly sexy, being sexy and enjoying herself with someone else too. 

What I will say is that after being on TAM for about a week (if that) I have already learnt a lot and feel like it's the kind of affirmation that I might need in order to get my head straight, and keep fantasy fantasy.. sadly.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

controlledchaos said:


> Thanks for some of the other theories, re. sex rank and all that. I don't agree with them though, at least not in my case.
> 
> It's possibly more to do with seeing the woman that you love and find incredibly sexy, being sexy and enjoying herself with someone else too.


Why do people try so hard to analyse this fantasy? It seems that everybody wants to work out why people have this fantasy, more so than say a bondage fantasy or a shoe fetish. Why?

Fantasies are for enjoying.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Why do people try so hard to analyse this fantasy? It seems that everybody wants to work out why people have this fantasy, more so than say a bondage fantasy or a shoe fetish. Why?
> 
> Fantasies are for enjoying.


Because - in my case at least - the fantasy isn't always enough, and I feel the desire to actually act on it. She's game too, but we know it could be trouble, so the safe bet is to try to quash the fantasy a little, hence the attempted self-analysis. :scratchhead:


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

controlledchaos said:


> Because - in my case at least - the fantasy isn't always enough, and I feel the desire to actually act on it. She's game too, but we know it could be trouble, so the safe bet is to try to quash the fantasy a little, hence the attempted self-analysis. :scratchhead:


It's funny how strong this fantasy can be thus why so many probably had indeed acted on it. But safe to say after reading numerous threads and issues with bringing this to reality its best to leave it as a fantasy in our minds.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

controlledchaos said:


> Because - in my case at least - the fantasy isn't always enough, and I feel the desire to actually act on it. She's game too, but we know it could be trouble, so the safe bet is to try to quash the fantasy a little, hence the attempted self-analysis. :scratchhead:


I don't mean you controlledchaos, nothing wrong with self-analysis. I mean those who don't have the fantasy. 

I see a lot of attempted analysis by those critical of the fantasy/reality and it interests me as to why they feel the need. Many people seem to treat it as an illness rather than something enjoyed by consenting adults.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I don't mean you controlledchaos, nothing wrong with self-analysis. I mean those who don't have the fantasy.
> 
> I see a lot of attempted analysis by those critical of the fantasy/reality and it interests me as to why they feel the need. Many people seem to treat it as an illness rather than something enjoyed by consenting adults.


Speaking as someone who is totally opposed to this fantasy, I agree with what you have said entirely. It might not be what floats my boat but that doesn't give me the right to slam your desire for it. I agree that it's great advice to thoroughly think through what it is you are looking at doing and really play out as best you can all the possible scenarios and impacts, but if you choose to go ahead and do it, who am I to judge?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Why do people try so hard to analyse this fantasy? It seems that everybody wants to work out why people have this fantasy, more so than say a bondage fantasy or a shoe fetish. Why?
> 
> Fantasies are for enjoying.


People want to understand things that make them uncomfortable or anxious.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

I have another twist on this same topic - what would most men say if their wife was willing to invite another woman into the equation? And they would enjoy each other as well as you?


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

If they are honest you will probably hear a whole new tune..

I will go ahead and add that some of it probably has to do with men not seeing another woman as a threat because she doesn't have a penis.

I didn't see another man as a threat because my husband wasn't bi. No competition. Just being honest.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

40isthenew20 said:


> I have another twist on this same topic - what would most men say if their wife was willing to invite another woman into the equation? And they would enjoy each other as well as you?


I have nooo issues with this ...... and if anything the Mrs sometimes mentions that she'd be more interested in another woman than another man  guess that makes her " bi curious " hhmmm ??

But honestly ..... i'd prefer to simply watch !! One woman is more than i can handle ...... needless to say a 2nd ?????


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

40isthenew20 said:


> I have another twist on this same topic - what would most men say if their wife was willing to invite another woman into the equation? And they would enjoy each other as well as you?


I will admit it is an intriging fantasy.

But that's all it ever would be for me for a few reasons.

Firstly, I wouldn't want to open the door for feelings to get involved, and as has been discussed in this thread, that can and does happen. I wouldn't want to open myself up to start getting attached to the other woman, and also i wouldn't want to risk my fiancee getting attached to her either. That's to much heartache to risk over a fantasy that I'm unsure of if it will even excite me once I'm actually in the moment and not just thinking about it. Reality and fantasy are to different perspectives.

Secondly, I'd be fully aware of the fact that if I allowed a FMF situation, my fiancee would be totally within her rights to subsequently ask for a MFM situation as well, and I'd have no grounds to refuse her that request. I know that the mere thought of sharing my fiancee with another man, or even seeing her/thinking of her with another man would cuase me a lot of greif, and is about the worst thing in the world to me.

Keeping those factors in mind, there's no way in hell I'd ever agree to a FMF with my fiancee. The only way I'd ever do a FMF is if I was single again and two women I knew (but wasn't dating, nor wanted to date) suggested it to me.


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

sure, i've had this fantasy!
but i'm too chicken to go through with it!

i'd be to jealous to see my wife with another man!


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I don't mean you controlledchaos, nothing wrong with self-analysis. I mean those who don't have the fantasy.
> 
> I see a lot of attempted analysis by those critical of the fantasy/reality and it interests me as to why they feel the need. Many people seem to treat it as an illness rather than something enjoyed by consenting adults.


Yeah, I agree. Thank you. I suppose some of it has to do with religion possibly, and what they believe is right or wrong. 



kingsfan said:


> Speaking as someone who is totally opposed to this fantasy, I agree with what you have said entirely. It might not be what floats my boat but that doesn't give me the right to slam your desire for it. I agree that it's great advice to thoroughly think through what it is you are looking at doing and really play out as best you can all the possible scenarios and impacts, but if you choose to go ahead and do it, who am I to judge?


Again, thanks for the open minded approach. 



missymrs80 said:


> People want to understand things that make them uncomfortable or anxious.


That and people like to feel better about themselves by labeling others are 'wrong'.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

40isthenew20 said:


> I have another twist on this same topic - what would most men say if their wife was willing to invite another woman into the equation? And they would enjoy each other as well as you?


Hallelujah? 



HopelesslyJaded said:


> I will go ahead and add that some of it probably has to do with men not seeing another woman as a threat because she doesn't have a penis.
> 
> I didn't see another man as a threat because my husband wasn't bi. No competition. Just being honest.


That's exactly it, and an interesting perspective on the whole situation. Why do we not trust a man and how our wives would react to one, but we fully trust a female? It's funny how we're programmed.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

controlledchaos said:


> Hallelujah?
> 
> 
> That's exactly it, and an interesting perspective on the whole situation. Why do we not trust a man and how our wives would react to one, but we fully trust a female? It's funny how we're programmed.


Nothing to do with trust. Has everything to do with the perception of who is getting f'ed and who is doing the f'ing.


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Nothing to do with trust. Has everything to do with the perception of who is getting f'ed and who is doing the f'ing.


ha, well said 
i don't want to see her getting f'ed 
especially if she looks like she is having to much fun LOL!


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Nothing to do with trust. Has everything to do with the perception of who is getting f'ed and who is doing the f'ing.


That depends on if we want to see her getting f'ed or not (by a guy). Not to mention the foreplay.. but I'd rather not spell that out.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

controlledchaos said:


> That depends on if we want to see her getting f'ed or not (by a guy). Not to mention the foreplay.. but I'd rather not spell that out.


We are talking making it real. More men would be willing IRL to add a woman not a man for the reasons I already mentioned.


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> We are talking making it real. More men would be willing IRL to add a woman not a man for the reasons I already mentioned.


Yes. Men would prefer to add a woman for sure!
likely reasons:

1. size comparisons! don't want to see your wife with a big, tool, that isn't yours...

2. guys are more sensitive to being with other naked men.

That said, I would not really want to do a threesome with my wife, regardless if the third was a woman or a man b/c of emotional implications.

But... If I was the "third" I think a MMF situation leads to more creativity and possibilities


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

The FMF thing would never happen. My wife is all girl and has no interest in bisexuality. She's made it clear she has no desire to have sex with another woman and made it even clearer that she has no desire to see me have sex with another woman. 

What turns her on turns me on. The MFM thing has always turned me one and once she found out I was okay with the FANTASY, it turned her on as well. Now we feed off eachother's MFM fantasies.

But another woman in the bedroom, yeah, no.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

sandc said:


> The FMF thing would never happen.* My wife is all girl and has no interest in bisexuality. She's made it clear she has no desire to have sex with another woman and made it even clearer that she has no desire to see me have sex with another woman. *
> 
> What turns her on turns me on. The MFM thing has always turned me one and once she found out I was okay with the FANTASY, it turned her on as well. Now we feed off eachother's MFM fantasies.
> 
> But another woman in the bedroom, yeah, no.


Your wife and I have something in common then. This is me.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> More men would be willing IRL to add a woman not a man for the reasons I already mentioned.


Yes, most men would. 



williamjones said:


> 1. size comparisons! don't want to see your wife with a big, tool, that isn't yours...


I disagree with that haha  



sandc said:


> The MFM thing has always turned me one and once she found out I was okay with the FANTASY, it turned her on as well. Now we feed off eachother's MFM fantasies.
> 
> But another woman in the bedroom, yeah, no.


Exactly the same for us. I pretty much gave up on the FMF fantasy years ago, sadly.


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Your wife and I have something in common then. This is me.


i have never discussed this with my wife, but i bet she is the same. no interest attraction in women, but she appreciates men...


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

controlledchaos said:


> Exactly the same for us. I pretty much gave up on the FMF fantasy years ago, sadly.


I did too. First because it doesn't turn my wife on. Second because in reality, I know I can't pleasure two women simultaneously. Long story, search my old threads.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

williamjones said:


> i have never discussed this with my wife, but i bet she is the same. no interest attraction in women, but she appreciates men...


My wife has said that she would make out with another woman if that woman were, say, Monica Bellucci. She said more likely though they'd touch each other and then exchange skin care tips "how do you keep your skin so soft" and "what moisturizer do you use" etc.

But she wouldn't touch the average bimbo that I just happen to find attractive.


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

One "sharing" fantasy I have.
It's sort of PG-13, well maybe rated R...

I have fantasized about my wife giving me and another man handjobs at the same time in a semi public place. Maybe on an air plane or in a movie theatre. I don't know why, but the thought of her stroking us both till we pop is so hot!


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Would it matter who popped first? Be a very unique 'race' anyways, lol.


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Would it matter who popped first? Be a very unique 'race' anyways, lol.


LOL! I am sure I would pop first, since it is my fantasy and I would be over heated


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

williamjones said:


> One "sharing" fantasy I have.
> It's sort of PG-13, well maybe rated R...
> 
> I have fantasized about my wife giving me and another man handjobs at the same time in a semi public place. Maybe on an air plane or in a movie theatre. I don't know why, but the thought of her stroking us both till we pop is so hot!


BOOM! I'm the same, although I dont care where it happens. In yours is she also on her knees, looking up? :smthumbup:

Okay.. lets stop there.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

williamjones said:


> One "sharing" fantasy I have.
> It's sort of PG-13, well maybe rated R...
> 
> I have fantasized about my wife giving me and another man handjobs at the same time in a semi public place. Maybe on an air plane or in a movie theatre. I don't know why, but the thought of her stroking us both till we pop is so hot!





controlledchaos said:


> BOOM! I'm the same, although I dont care where it happens. In yours is she also on her knees, looking up? :smthumbup:
> 
> Okay.. lets stop there.


Guilty as charged !!!!

Okay ..... shall we start a new club here  ???


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

Omgitsjoe said:


> Guilty s charged !!!!
> 
> Okay ..... shall we start a new club here  ???


haha. i had no idea this fantasy was shared by others LOL!

i wonder how women feel about this fantasy?


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

williamjones said:


> haha. i had no idea this fantasy was shared by others LOL!
> 
> i wonder how women feel about this fantasy?


Very much so. 

Mine is keen to try it, but in her own words 'We just dont have another **** to try it with'


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Not really. My woman is my woman and no one elses as long as we're together. 

Any males who try, anticipate a beat down.


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

too bad we are not neighbors LOL!
but i'm sure i'd chicken out in real life!


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

williamjones said:


> haha. i had no idea this fantasy was shared by others LOL!
> 
> i wonder how women feel about this fantasy?


Some would think it disgusting. Some would share it. 

I would be turned on by it but absolutely not turned on by a woman in the fantasy. Therefore would be apprehensive about encouraging the fantasy. (of course even more so now because of personal experience)


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

well i am not encouraging this fantasy to my wife 
it is just in my head...

what is your personal experience that gives you apprehension? (i hope it's ok to ask)


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

williamjones said:


> well i am not encouraging this fantasy to my wife
> it is just in my head...
> 
> what is your personal experience that gives you apprehension? (i hope it's ok to ask)


I will not rehash it but it's not hard to find. I have a couple threads here.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

jaquen said:


> That's a fantasy? That sounds like a tame, easy reality.
> 
> Is she open to it?


I didn't say we don't ever do our fantasies  

I was just thinking of things that I let roam through my mind and that get me aroused. And that's one that I think about regularly (although haven't done the 3 vibes/dildos...yet....so that one hasn't been fulfilled but will be...maybe this weekend...:smthumbup:


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

williamjones said:


> haha. i had no idea this fantasy was shared by others LOL!
> 
> i wonder how women feel about this fantasy?


I'll ask my wife about this tonight. I have a feeling she'll say "that sounds like too much work." :lol:


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

williamjones said:


> haha. i had no idea this fantasy was shared by others LOL!
> 
> i wonder how women feel about this fantasy?


From my own personal experience .... a lot of women do not enjoy this fantasy simply because of the negative perception our society has of such a woman doing this ??? 

It took a lot of convincing my wife that it'd be okay to experiment but because of the perception and her strict religous upbringing she still frowns upon such fantasies. Only when she's a bit tipsy and loses her inhibitions does she open up to it but only then ?? 

Thus why it's a fantasy and why it's best kept in the dirty corners of our minds  !!!


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

40isthenew20 said:


> I have another twist on this same topic - what would most men say if their wife was willing to invite another woman into the equation? And they would enjoy each other as well as you?



My wife had no third/more party fantasies. But I had fantasies about adding others of both sexes. We talked frankly about it, and she let me know that it would be something she was open to exploring together if I wanted to, and she felt comfortable. We talked about what elements of the fantasy were turn ons for me, and for her, and envisioned how we'd both go about it (incidentally she'd want strangers, while I'd only be open to one of my closest, trusted friends for a guy, but a beautiful stranger if we added a woman).

I let her know that I was thankful that she was accepting, non-judgemental, and willing to explore, but I made it clear that we would never be crossing that line no matter how open to it she was.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

jaquen said:


> My wife had no third/more party fantasies. But I had fantasies about adding others of both sexes. We talked frankly about it, and she let me know that it would be something she was open to exploring together if I wanted to, and she felt comfortable. We talked about what elements of the fantasy were turn ons for me, and for her, and envisioned how we'd both go about it (incidentally she'd want strangers, while I'd only be open to one of my closest, trusted friends for a guy, but a beautiful stranger if we added a woman).
> 
> I let her know that I was thankful that she was accepting, non-judgemental, and willing to explore, but I made it clear that we would never be crossing that line no matter how open to it she was.


I have to commend you both. You both have very good attitudes towards sex in general and even better boundaries.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Asked mine and he says if anybody ever touched me he would likely murder them. He doesn't like to think about it. Same way here. I'd kill someone.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

jaquen said:


> My wife had no third/more party fantasies. But I had fantasies about adding others of both sexes. We talked frankly about it, and she let me know that it would be something she was open to exploring together if I wanted to, and she felt comfortable. We talked about what elements of the fantasy were turn ons for me, and for her, and envisioned how we'd both go about it (incidentally she'd want strangers, while I'd only be open to one of my closest, trusted friends for a guy, but a beautiful stranger if we added a woman).
> 
> I let her know that I was thankful that she was accepting, non-judgemental, and willing to explore, but I made it clear that we would never be crossing that line no matter how open to it she was.


You're both to be blessed to have the communicational skills to discuss such a taboo topic. I even give your wife extra kudos for not being judemental and even willing to experiment !! 

Most women would be quick to call a husband a " perv " when this is brought up thus kinda kicking a guy when he's down scenario .......... a H asking himself " why did i bring this up " soo much for open communication huh  ??


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Omgitsjoe said:


> You're both to be blessed to have the communicational skills to discuss such a taboo topic. I even give your wife extra kudos for not being judemental and even willing to experiment !!
> 
> Most women would be quick to call a husband a " perv " when this is brought up thus kinda kicking a guy when he's down scenario .......... a H asking himself " why did i bring this up " soo much for open communication huh  ??


Thanks. I adore this woman, and she is an extraordinary wife and human being.

It also comes down to the fact that we were best friends long before we got together, and in a long relationship before we got married. I knew who she was. I'd have never, ever married a closed minded woman who was interested in judging me.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

My ex used to fantasize about multiple men touching her everywhere all at the same time...ideally with lots of oil involved. She felt if one set up hands felt good wouldn't three or four sets of hands feel better. I enjoyed the fantasy from the point of view of how turned on it made her. 

I think part of the sharing your wife fantasy is about her getting more aroused than usual then coming to you. For me the fantasy was fine. I never would have considered trying to make it a reality.


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

To answer the OP's question, HELL NO! I'm a selfish SOB, so the only one that's touching my wife is ME. I'm not into that mate swapping stuff.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

kipani said:


> Asked mine and he says if anybody ever touched me he would likely murder them. He doesn't like to think about it. Same way here. I'd kill someone.


Out of context, I'm the same. If she cheated on me or any guy tried something with her, I'd crush him. 

But when aroused and fantasizing, and with my involvement and consent, it's a different thing altogether.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

This reminds me of a conversation about homosexuality circa 1955. First its "sick and twisted", then its "ok only as a fantasy", then its "actually quite common", "I have a friend who..." etc...

I just joined this forum and am really impressed with the depth of some of the discussion on here, but there is way too much judgement especially about this topic.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

A lot of people here have been touched by infidelity. You can hopefully understand why this particular fantasy would offend them.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

sandc said:


> A lot of people here have been touched by infidelity. You can hopefully understand why this particular fantasy would offend them.


Fair enough, but *cheating* on ones spouse and having a threesome with all parties involved is surely quite a different scenario altogether.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

controlledchaos said:


> Fair enough, but *cheating* on ones spouse and having a threesome with all parties involved is surely quite a different scenario altogether.


Its the third party aspect. Many of these folks have had an unwelcome third party come into their marriage uninvited. Others have tried to help those folks pick up the shattered pieces of these uninvited third parties. I can understand why the thought of actually inviting in a third party does not appeal to some and repulses others.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

sandc said:


> Its the third party aspect. Many of these folks have had an unwelcome third party come into their marriage uninvited. Others have tried to help those folks pick up the shattered pieces of these uninvited third parties. I can understand why the thought of actually inviting in a third party does not appeal to some and repulses others.


I can understand that too, but I don't accept the verbal abuse. I am repulsed by the idea of fisting but I don't abuse those who indulge in it.


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## hehasmyheart (Mar 11, 2010)

I've fantasized about things I would never do. I guess anything goes in fantasies, the more "forbidden" the better.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

> I can understand that too, but I don't accept the verbal abuse. I am repulsed by the idea of fisting but I don't abuse those who indulge in it.


Exactly. We all agree that cheating is unethical. So equating one's perfectly healthy and legitimate sexual interest with something unethical and destructive is equally offensive to the rest of us. The thing is, if you aren't comfortable discussing or even thinking about a specific subject matter then you can avoid it by not reading threads about it. But the rest of us can't really avoid reading the attacks.


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

east2west said:


> Exactly. We all agree that cheating is unethical. So equating one's perfectly healthy and legitimate sexual interest with something unethical and destructive is equally offensive to the rest of us. The thing is, if you aren't comfortable discussing or even thinking about a specific subject matter then you can avoid it by not reading threads about it. But the rest of us can't really avoid reading the attacks.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Thanks for speaking up.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Well put.


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## controlledchaos (Oct 14, 2012)

east2west said:


> Exactly. We all agree that cheating is unethical. So equating one's perfectly healthy and legitimate sexual interest with something unethical and destructive is equally offensive to the rest of us. The thing is, if you aren't comfortable discussing or even thinking about a specific subject matter then you can avoid it by not reading threads about it. But the rest of us can't really avoid reading the attacks.


Very well said, thanks


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Yes, I have had this fantasy. Unfortunately, in the fantasy my wife was Lorena Bobbitt.


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## Poppy (Mar 14, 2012)

The fantasy is all to do with cuckoldry. It is to do with ego issues. A sex therapist explained it to me in detail..for obvious reasons. Another man [email protected] your wife is the ultimate stroking for some narcissists. They like to watch and give their permission. If someone else wants your wife then you have a hot wife and therefore you are successful. You own her.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Poppy said:


> The fantasy is all to do with cuckoldry. It is to do with ego issues.


Bull****. I find cuckold fantasies abhorrent and disgusting, not my taste whatsoever. 

There is a radical difference between a cuckold situation, and having a fantasy about a threesome/moresome. Many people merely multiple human beings having sex to be arousing, and like the idea of participating with their spouse.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

IMO I find cuckolds to be abhorrent. They are men that are weak spinless jellyfish that have no ideda what being a man is all about.

Having a fantasy about some other man have sex with my wife? NOT!!

If she did decide to have sex with another person, she would no longer be my wife.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

old_soldier said:


> IMO I find cuckolds to be abhorrent. They are men that are weak spinless jellyfish that have no ideda what being a man is all about.
> 
> Having a fantasy about some other man have sex with my wife? NOT!!
> 
> If she did decide to have sex with another person, she would no longer be my wife.


Thank you for sharing but why? Did you just stop by to insult the folks on this thread and then leave? Why do that? If you don't like to read about it... don't read about it. No one made you come in here.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> Any men out there had a similar fantasy?


In my fantasies I never want to cross the line of actual touching another person. Same room sex, maybe. I dream of going on vacation and my wife wearing a very skimpy bikini or nothing, on a beach but not doing anything with anyone else. The only problem I have with that in reality is the possibility of someone taking pictures of her without our consent or knowledge; so I don't think I would actually want that to happen in real life. 

I wouldn't mind her wearing more revealing clothing in public, especially if we were on vacation somewhere far away and tropical. But She would never and isn't interested so it's a non-start from the beginning.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

The beauty of fantasy is it stays safely in your head. No one gets hurt.


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I just wonder if men constantly have sick $h*# in their heads. But it not really soething theyd actually want to do


Men ...all men ...have sex on their minds. All the time. It's like background music 

To answer your question - no. Not all men have sick s&^% in their heads constantly. Just the sick ones


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

Terry_CO said:


> Men ...all men ...have sex on their minds. All the time. It's like background music
> 
> To answer your question - no. Not all men have sick s&^% in their heads constantly. Just the sick ones


Okay , okay ....................... GUILTY as charged


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

Omgitsjoe said:


> Okay , okay ....................... GUILTY as charged


 :rofl:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

No. Never.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Poppy said:


> The fantasy is all to do with cuckoldry. It is to do with ego issues. A sex therapist explained it to me in detail..for obvious reasons. Another man [email protected] your wife is the ultimate stroking for some narcissists. They like to watch and give their permission. If someone else wants your wife then you have a hot wife and therefore you are successful. You own her.


My husband is far from narcissistic. I don't buy this theory. People with addiction are passed off as having narcissistic tendencies or even given a d/x of NPD. I can see how this fantasy might commonly get brought up for a person in treatment for addiction (or if wrongly d/x, in treatment for NPD). Going on a tangent here, but addiction is one disease. You can't divide it up by sex addiction, coke addiction, alcoholism. Some would go as far to say that personality disorders are really untreated addiction. However....politics, money, insurance etc keep the public misinformed. Ah I could go on and on but I guess my point is...I can see how this could get tied to narcissism, however, I don't think it's accurate to say this fantasy is always tied to a narcissist. Again, I think narcissistic personalities are really untreated addiction. Totally off topic


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

OP,I have a question about this and other fantasies that I would like to ask.

Is it ok if I ask it on your thread?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Permission granted. Wow i feel powerful Carib man


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Ok,
Thank You.

I have followed this discussion , and I like the way everyone handled themselves..
It got me wondering.
Each person has a different perception of sex and hence their sexuality varies based on their culture, religious beliefs, life experiences and so forth.
Human sexuality is complex.

So with regards to fantasies, different people fantasize about different things.
My question is, can a person know exactly what drives his or her fantasy? And how do they know when its safe to cross over and explore it in reality?

I started another thread dealing with threesomes , and what I learned was that some couples seem to manage it better than some, based on the sexual maturity of the parties involved.

So the obvious question is, what causes these fantasies and how does a couple know that they are emotionally mature enough to handle it without deceiving themselves?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I think its just too complex to pin it down. 
Human beings are driven toward opportunities to gain mastery over past traumas. We all have experienced some degree of trauma growing up (from an anxious mother keeping you close to her at all times all the way to incest, rape, abuse). 

So, i think fantasies are a place for us to seek mastery over trauma.
I also think fanasies are biologically driven. 

I dont think its just one thing. 
And by discussing fantasies, group norms are established.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> So, i think fantasies are a place for us to seek mastery over trauma.
> *I also think fanasies are biologically driven.*


I understand the part about mastery over trauma , it makes sense, because I thought about it before.

But can you elaborate on the biologically driven aspect?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok,
> Thank You.
> 
> I have followed this discussion , and I like the way everyone handled themselves..
> ...


CM, I commented in your other thread. It all comes down to your morals and how you view sex. If you have no religious laws against sex outside of marriage and you view sex as an act separate from love, then it is possible to engage in it. You have to be sure that your partner is completely devoted to you. That the other person is only there to help you bring pleasure to your partner.

I consider my wife and I to be mature enough to handle it if we so chose to engage in this. However, we do have religious objections to a third party in marriage. No, we didn't object to third parties at one time, but since we became Christians we don't engage in that behavior anymore. We aren't perfect so we still have thoughts about threesomes. However, we have found a way to indulge the fantasy in a way that does not involve others through the use of toys etc. I think very few threesomes turn out the way people expect they would.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I understand the part about mastery over trauma , it makes sense, because I thought about it before.
> 
> But can you elaborate on the biologically driven aspect?


Well we are here to procreate....so with that comes sexual desire. 
A more specific example, the desire/fantasy to be dominated in bed. I think women for the most part are wired to want that from a man....I'm sure some will disagree with this. I think its just too hard to isolate any variables in this matter.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

In every marriage there is a pursuer(goes after the other partner) and the distancer (pushes away). This is sometimes very subtle and not problematic in the marriage....other times its in full force. 

I wonder if people with the fantasy i originally posted are distancers. My husband is a distancer.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

For us there were no biological factors. For me it is to see that my wife is desirable by other men, to be able to watch her in action with no distractions, and to please her in ways that I can't alone (two mouths, four hands, two d!cks).


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Well we are here to procreate....so with that comes sexual desire.
> *A more specific example, the desire/fantasy to be dominated in bed. I think women for the most part are wired to want that from a man....*I'm sure some will disagree with this. I think its just too hard to isolate any variables in this matter.[/QUOTE
> :iagree:
> 
> ...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Thanks for your response sandc!
I was hoping you, and some of the other guys from earlier on this thread would be willing to contribute to the discussion.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Where do men get these type of fantasies from?
> I have never had such fantasies.
> I don't need any other man to " help me " [email protected] my wife.


Goodness, its just a fantasy. No need to put the man down. My, this forum is *Dominated* by so many *Alpha* males that it gets claustrophobic. 


In my dream land I am a middle eastern prince owning the world's biggest harem. I wonder where I get these type of fantasies, actually i don't. Its an integral part of my inner kink. But if people do turn their fantasies into reality, they should be prepared to accept the real world consequences of their actions.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Goodness, its just a fantasy. No need to put the man down. My, this forum is *Dominated* by so many *Alpha* males that it gets claustrophobic.
> 
> 
> *In my dream land I am a middle eastern prince owning the world's biggest harem. I wonder where I get these type of fantasies, actually i don't. Its an integral part of my inner kink. *But if people do turn their fantasies into reality, they should be prepared to accept the real world consequences of their actions.


Lighten up man, its Sunday morning.
We have moved way past that initial stage on the thread!

The thing is, with a name like " Bjorn free " your fantasies put you as a middle eastern prince in control of a harem of submissive women, and not a domineering Viking 
[ Alpha ] , see?:scratchhead:

Why?

So the question remains.

Why do I sometimes fantasize about being in charge of a harem full of beautiful , exotic women? [ You and I both have similar fantasies.:smthumbup: ]

Why do some women fantasize about being dominated by a group of men?

Why do some men fantasize about sharing their wife with another man?

Why do some women fantasize about rape?

Why do some women fantasize about well endowed men ravishing their bodies?

Why do some men fantasize about being dominated and humiliated by a powerful woman?


I am just trying to get an insight into the " inner kink." 
So, have you ever thought about why you've had that fantasy?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Lighten up man, its Sunday morning.
> We have moved way past that initial stage on the thread!
> 
> The thing is, with a name like " Bjorn free " your fantasies put you as a middle eastern prince in control of a harem of submissive women, and not a domineering Viking
> ...


Haha, too much competition for this old viking, I'd rather be the lone player in the group thank you.

I don't like searching for the reasons that explain the working of the universe that is my mind, the beauty of it is often lost under all that thinking and searching. I have it because it is a part of who I am.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> So the question remains.
> 
> Why do I sometimes fantasize about being in charge of a harem full of beautiful , exotic women? [ You and I both have similar fantasies.:smthumbup: ]


Evolution. There is a lot of evidence that we evolved to be moderate harem keepers. That is one male with two or three females. The evidence is that this is the format in many cultures and was the format in most, before the rise of Christianity. There is also moderate sexual dimorphism in humans, as in the male is bigger than the female. This is thought to be to help the male control and defend his harem. Other examples are gorillas and sea lions (very high sexual dimorphism because they keep bigger harems) and low sexual dimorphism occurs in animals like gibbons who are socially monogamous.



Caribbean Man said:


> Why do some women fantasize about being dominated by a group of men?


 Evolution. The theory is that women have evolved a mixed breeding strategy; find a stable partner and then supplement the DNA input with the best genes around. Sperm competition would play a part here too.



Caribbean Man said:


> Why do some men fantasize about sharing their wife with another man?


Evolution. One theory is that in our evolutionary past women mated with several men and our sperm competed inside the female body. We are invigorated by the idea that we are competing for a desirable female. See 'The Coolidge Effect'.



Caribbean Man said:


> Why do some women fantasize about rape?


Evolution. Rape often occured when a strong man or group of men defeated another group and raped the women. The women were safer once they bore the invading group's/male's off-spring and were getting the strongest DNA available.



Caribbean Man said:


> Why do some women fantasize about well endowed men ravishing their bodies?


Evolution. As above - strong men with 'good' genes. There is a theory that human males have evolved relatively large penises, shaped they way they are, to remove the sperm of competing males from her vagina. Nice, right? This would mean that if her offspring had the same impressive d!ck her genes would be more likely to be passed on.



Caribbean Man said:


> Why do some men fantasize about being dominated and humiliated by a powerful woman?


Evolution. Our off-spring are more likely to survive if we mate with a strong woman of high social standing.

As you can see I am a strong believer in evolution by natural selection. I believe that our sexual behaviour is the result of our evolutionary path. I believe that a lot of the conflict that we have around sex and fidelity is caused by the fact that evolution is slow, so our sexuality reflects the way we lived thousands of years ago. Monogamy is a relatively recent social construct which is at odds with our evolved sexuality.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I agree with johnny. 
By biology i also mean evolution.
I still think our experiences growing up also have a lot to do with it.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

missymrs80 said:


> I agree with johnny.
> By biology i also mean evolution.
> I still think our experiences growing up also have a lot to do with it.


I agree. Nurture certainly plays a part.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I would think a male fantasizing about being dominated by a female isnt too common. Is it?

Maybe its a way of working through the trauma (i use trauma to mean anything upsetting really) of having a controlling, overbearing mother


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I would think a male fantasizing about being dominated by a female isnt too common. Is it?
> 
> *Maybe its a way of working through the trauma (i use trauma to mean anything upsetting really) of having a controlling, overbearing mother*


Well that's my thoughts too.
I agree with Johnny somewhat, but i think some are more based on nurture than biology.
So that a man who had a domineering mother might himself fantasize about being dominated.
A man who had a father that was dominant, overbearing figure, might fantasize about bondage etc. He might also be inclined to rough sex.

I don't know if I'm right, I'm just making assumptions here.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Nancy Friday, in her books "My Secret Garden", "Women on Top" and "Men in Love" addresses where those fantasies might come from.

She's compiled hundreds of fantasies, as written and submitted to her by women and men, and compiled them into categories, with her psychological theories on what those fantasies mean.

She might or might not be exactly right, but her books are a fascinating read if you're into trying to understand fantasies.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

I apologize that my comment may have been a little on the strong side. I did not just come here then dissapear. I have very limited access to a computer so I have to come and go quickly sometimes. 

To answer the question, I can not fathom in my mind somebody else touching my wife in a sexual way. My first marriage ended in divorce because I caught my exwife and her boyfriend doing the horizontal mamba on the living room couch. It was not a pleasent sight.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

old_soldier said:


> I apologize that my comment may have been a little on the strong side. I did not just come here then dissapear. I have very limited access to a computer so I have to come and go quickly sometimes.
> 
> To answer the question, I can not fathom in my mind somebody else touching my wife in a sexual way. My first marriage ended in divorce because I caught my exwife and her boyfriend doing the horizontal mamba on the living room couch. It was not a pleasent sight.


Sir, absolutely no offense taken. Given your history there is no reason in this world you would have this fantasy. If my wife had cheated on me I certainly would not be having this fantasy. There is a big difference between getting a pass from the CO and going AWOL (to use military terms.) This is not a fantasy I would recommend anyone try who's life had been touched by infidelity.

My wife has always been faithful and honest with me. If she finds someone attractive, she admits it to me. We keep everything in the open. For me it is about seeing the woman I love being pleasured. If she only derives pleasure from me, then she shall only be with me. If she derives pleasure out of fantasizing sleeping with 5 men in a snowbound cabin then we shall fantasize about her sleeping with 5 men in a snowbound cabin. 

Any "sharing" fantasies she has always involves me. She would never want to go off the reservation by herself.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I would think a male fantasizing about being dominated by a female isnt too common. Is it?
> 
> Maybe its a way of working through the trauma (i use trauma to mean anything upsetting really) of having a controlling, overbearing mother


Based on my travels throughout the internet, you would be wrong. The evolutionary narrative that they normally toss around is there is some kind of programmed urge in the man to see his wife mate with the strongest most dominant male in a sort of altruistic attempt to strengthen the gene pool. The husband may prefer to be dominated by his wife, the other man, or both. But if something about this idea rubs you the wrong way, please don't shoot the messenger thanks in advance!


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't fantasize about being dominated by a woman per se. I do have fantasies about being bound and having my wife tease me sexually until I can't stand it. We've done this one a few times. Usually ends up with me getting so turned on that I bust out of my fetters and take her almost savagely. 

She really likes that one.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

I would have no problem being dominated by my wife. Turning the tables can be pretty hot.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I would think a male fantasizing about being dominated by a female isnt too common. Is it?


I think it's common. There's a LOT of Dominatrix porn out there - somebody is watching it and I doubt it's women.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I would think a male fantasizing about being dominated by a female isnt too common. Is it?


Never underestimate the incredible variety of sexual scenarios that turn men on. At this point I don't consider much of anything abnormal.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

It was all abnormal before the Internet. Now it's all normal.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

sandc said:


> It was all abnormal before the Internet. Now it's all normal.


Disagree.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Disagree.


Come now, you know what I mean. Sarcasm is my native language.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

sandc said:


> It was all abnormal before the Internet. Now it's all normal.


http://www.google.es/imgres?q=hindu...nw=234&start=0&ndsp=9&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0,i:84


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I guess i mean i think its uncommon for a man to truly want and desire a woman to be dominate in all aspects of the relationship.

Clearly there are many relationships where the woman takes control/is in charge/wears the pants......but does the man actually WANT/desire this.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Im taking this outside of just sex bc i think it all goes together in the end. When my husband is dominate outside of the bedroom it turns me on just like it wouldinside of the bedroom


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Im taking this outside of just sex bc i think it all goes together in the end. When my husband is dominate outside of the bedroom it turns me on just like it wouldinside of the bedroom


In the BDSM community they tend to believe that both men and women are somewhat more likely to be submissive than dominant. From an evolutionary perspective this seems almost tautological. Too many alpha dogs in one pack creates an unstable situation leading to some of them killing off the others. It also squares with my reading on TAM where the most common problem seems to be "husband is too beta". In some cases its just not knowing how to act around your wife, but I think a lot of the time the husband just prefers to be in a submissive role in the relationship. 

The interesting question to me is, if the wife is dominant can she remain attracted, in a purely monogamous way, to her submissive husband?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I guess i mean i think its uncommon for a man to truly want and desire a woman to be dominate in all aspects of the relationship.
> 
> Clearly there are many relationships where the woman takes control/is in charge/wears the pants......but does the man actually WANT/desire this.


No, I definitely don't. I can't even fathom being in a relationship with a woman who "wears the pants". That would never work for me.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> Im taking this outside of just sex bc i think it all goes together in the end. When my husband is dominate outside of the bedroom it turns me on just like it wouldinside of the bedroom


You are a gem.

My wife is the same way, BTW. As long as I'm not dominant in a overbearing way. More like, exceedingly confidant that I will get my way.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

jaquen said:


> No, I definitely don't. I can't even fathom being in a relationship with a woman who "wears the pants". That would never work for me.


:iagree:


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I think people put different meanings to the word dominant. I think both men and women have qualities that are unique...and trying to make both sexes the same or equal is tiresome And doesnt really work in the end. 

There is a reason why there aren't two captains on a ship.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Isn't there a marine mammal species in which 5% of the males in any given pack father all of the offspring?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


moco82 said:


> Isn't there a marine mammal species in which 5% of the males in any given pack father all of the offspring?


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I think people put different meanings to the word dominant.


Really? Like what? I mean we can talk about dominance inside and outside the bedroom, but isn't the meaning basically the same? It's only the context that's different.



> I think both men and women have qualities that are unique...and trying to make both sexes the same or equal is tiresome And doesn't really work in the end.


What is tiresome is pretending that two individuals in a relationship can be truly "equal". Two neutral atoms will never bond. But I don't accept that one gender is inherently dominant over the other one.



> There is a reason why there aren't two captains on a ship.


I agree but with the stipulation that the captain can be either a man or a woman. You have problems when neither partner is willing or able to be captain.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

east2west said:


> But I don't accept that one gender is inherently dominant over the other one.


I would offer that the vast majority of the totality of human history would suggest otherwise.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> I think people put different meanings to the word dominant. I think both men and women have qualities that are unique...and trying to make both sexes the same or equal is tiresome And doesnt really work in the end.
> 
> There is a reason why there aren't two captains on a ship.


I agree with no stipulations. In my family, I am the leader. I value my wife's input, greatly in fact. But in the end the decisions are mine alone. I am naturally more aggressive than my wife. She is by nature submissive and enjoys being so. She loves have the burden of big decisions removed from her. This way she never has to take the blame when the decisions play out badly.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


It's a pretty normal situation for all social species. 5% is on the low end, but it's barely ever above 20%. Think lions, baboons, wolves living in packs. Just ask yourself why nature even came up with sexual reproduction via two sexes. Didn't hermaphrodites suffice? Monopolizing sexual selection in the hands of one half of the species turbo-charges evolution: only the chosen few reproduce every generation. That's why snails are pretty much where they were millions of years ago, and we're flying into space.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

sandc said:


> I agree with no stipulations. In my family, I am the leader. I value my wife's input, greatly in fact. But in the end the decisions are mine alone. I am naturally more aggressive than my wife. She is by nature submissive and enjoys being so. She loves have the burden of big decisions removed from her. This way she never has to take the blame when the decisions play out badly.


I don't believe that describing your own relationship does anything to advance your claim that men are naturally dominant over women. It's only true in your relationship, as it also is in mine. 

But there is too much submissive male behavior in the real world. I see it everywhere I go. It flies in the face of the belief that dominance is an inborn male trait. Just look how many men on TAM have problems mate guarding, often don't even know whether they should or not.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

east2west said:


> I don't believe that describing your own relationship does anything to advance your claim that men are naturally dominant over women. It's only true in your relationship, as it also is in mine.
> 
> But there is too much submissive male behavior in the real world. I see it everywhere I go. It flies in the face of the belief that dominance is an inborn male trait. Just look how many men on TAM have problems mate guarding, often don't even know whether they should or not.


Believe whatever you like. There is too much submissiveness in *western* culture. We've had almost 100 years of school education teaching us that men and women are equal. We've been spoon fed the feminist agenda since we were little kids. We're told by media that women like "gentle" men, not gentlemen. Schools removing competition so that the losers don't feel bad and winners won't feel special. 

Go outside of western culture and you see a less feminized version of human relationships. In general, in most of the world, men run society and women tend to the home.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

sandc said:


> In general, in most of the world, men run society and women tend to the home.


Your point rests on the view that "society" is something entirely distinct from the "home". I don't see running the home as a submissive activity. The home is the nucleus of the family and society. If a woman is dominant over the home and the children then she may easily be dominant over the whole relationship, regardless of who is making the money. I think you have been fooled into thinking that earning the money is what makes one dominant.


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## landon33 (Jul 13, 2012)

sandc said:


> Go outside of western culture and you see a less feminized version of human relationships. In general, in most of the world, men run society and women tend to the home.


And yet Western culture, for the most part, has been incredibly dominant and successful in modern times. 

Women attaining more equality has surely contributed to this fact. 

At the expense of not being able to drag them around by their hair, or make them cover themselves from head to toe, or tell them who to marry, I'll grant you.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

landon33 said:


> And yet Western culture, for the most part, has been incredibly dominant and successful in modern times.
> 
> Women attaining more equality has surely contributed to this fact.
> 
> At the expense of not being able to drag them around by their hair, or make them cover themselves from head to toe, or tell them who to marry, I'll grant you.


I submit that western culture is in decline.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

landon33 said:


> And yet Western culture, for the most part, has been incredibly dominant and successful in modern times.
> 
> Women attaining more equality has surely contributed to this fact.\


Actually, no, not really. Western civilization became the dominating presence it is long before women achieved a stronger sense of equality. The "success" of the western world was well established before women became strong contributors to society outside of the traditional avenues of hearth and home.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Actually, no, not really. Western civilization became the dominating presence it is long before women achieved a stronger sense of equality. The "success" of the western world was well established before women became strong contributors to society outside of the traditional avenues of hearth and home.


:iagree::iagree:

Looks like somebody's trying to " rewrite " history...
But that's not how the how the "west was won." 

Way before feminism, there was the world wars ,before that , there was the battle for independence, and even before that there was the great Crusades.
The battle for Civil rights and Gender equality came long after the West was won.
In fact , the concept of Gender equality existed as far back as the Pharoahs [ Hatshepsut , Cleopatra etc. ]


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Caribbean Man, something I've noticed. I wonder if you agree? Does this whole feminization of men seem to be a primarily caucasion phenomenon? I don't see it as much in other ethnic groups. Seems to be most prevalent among white males in the West.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Well,
The feminization of men_ is_ an American thing.

Look around at the different cultures in the world, and then compare.
Some people won't like to hear it, and whenever the American male decides to become assertive and speck boldly, he is labelled as 
" misogynistic."
Equality doesn't mean the same role or the ability to reverse roles.

5 x 2 = 10
9 + 1 = 10

Both equations are different, but the result is the same.

Women and men are equal because they are human beings.
However their roles are vastly different.
There are overlapping areas, but some things never change.

Man = Hunters , Providers
Woman = Nurturers , Givers of life.

Men cannot get pregnant.
Women cannot produce sperm.

That's one of the reasons why women naturally prefer men to be dominant in the bedroom, that is what makes him man, and that is what she is sexually attracted to on a primal level.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

You... you... you caveman!

Want to go out for bronto-burgers? :lol:


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> *You... you... you caveman!*
> 
> Want to go out for bronto-burgers? :lol:


Yeah,
My wife tells me that.......
But she absolutely loves it when I make her " bed- rock "


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

No Never Nada Nine etc etc


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

I think it is rare for a man to want to live in a female-led relationship, as they are called. Usually men who like to be dominated in bed are in high-power jobs and are dominant in day-to-day life. Your kink fills a gap, right? 

It is like taking a short holiday and changing the perspective for a while.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

sandc said:


> Caribbean Man, something I've noticed. I wonder if you agree? Does this whole feminization of men seem to be a primarily caucasion phenomenon? I don't see it as much in other ethnic groups. Seems to be most prevalent among white males in the West.


I believe that African-American women are even more dominant in their households than caucasian women.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I think it is rare for a man to want to live in a female-led relationship, as they are called. Usually men who like to be dominated in bed are in high-power jobs and are dominant in day-to-day life. Your kink fills a gap, right?
> 
> It is like taking a short holiday and changing the perspective for a while.


That's definitely the stereotype but I find myself doubting how true it is.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Yeah,
> My wife tells me that.......
> But she absolutely loves it when I make her " bed- rock "


Way to go Bam Bam!


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

east2west said:


> I believe that African-American women are even more dominant in their households than caucasian women.


A disproportionately large number of African American households are led by single women. That dominance isn't over men, it's in the absence of men in a lot of cases.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I think it is rare for a man to want to live in a female-led relationship, as they are called. *Usually men who like to be dominated in bed are in high-power jobs and are dominant in day-to-day life. Your kink fills a gap, right?
> *
> It is like taking a short holiday and changing the perspective for a while.


^^^^^^^^^^
I know a few women who tell me that this [ the part highlighted ] is true.
Their men/ husband [ Who are usually either very rich or powerful or both] have that kind of kink.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

east2west said:


> I believe that African-American women are even more dominant in their households than caucasian women.


You haven't met my mother-in-law :rofl:


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^
> I know a few women who tell me that this [ the part highlighted ] is true.
> Their men/ husband [ Who are usually either very rich or powerful or both] have that kind of kink.


I dunno, my DH is in the highest position in his job and he likes being/wants to be dominant.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

east2west said:


> Your point rests on the view that "society" is something entirely distinct from the "home". I don't see running the home as a submissive activity. The home is the nucleus of the family and society. If a woman is dominant over the home and the children then she may easily be dominant over the whole relationship, regardless of who is making the money. I think you have been fooled into thinking that earning the money is what makes one dominant.


That is what i mean by people attaching different meanings to the concept of dominance. To me, my husband being the dominant one in our relationship goes beyond the fact that he is the breadWinner.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I would offer that the vast majority of the totality of human history would suggest otherwise.


Wouldn't the vast majority of human history also suggest that slavery is entirely appropriate?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

jaharthur said:


> Wouldn't the vast majority of human history also suggest that slavery is entirely appropriate?


And this has what exactly to do with my post?


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> That is what i mean by people attaching different meanings to the concept of dominance. To me, my husband being the dominant one in our relationship goes beyond the fact that he is the breadWinner.


To my view it isn't about who does what task. There is nothing inherently dominant about going to work at a corporation and earning a paycheck, and nothing inherently submissive about washing dishes and doing laundry. It's about who is creating the vision for the family life, making the plans to turn that vision into a reality and providing a firm hand to make sure that we actually follow through on that vision. 

Every morning there is a conversation that happens before a couple gets out of bed. The wife leans over and says to the husband, "Come on I need you to get up and go to work so we can keep feeding the baby." Or the husband leans over to the wife and says. "You stay here and feed the baby, I'll go to work and make some money so we can buy more food." In the first case the husband is submissive, and in the second case he is dominant. But the division of labor is exactly the same.

When the man complains about not getting sex and the wife responds "I'm too stressed out, I need some more help around the house", she doesn't mean she wants to see her husband wearing an apron and baking cookies or scrubbing the floors on his hands and knees. She means she wants to feel his dominant presence in her homemaking activities, she wants to know he has a vision for the home and that she is making a positive contribution towards that vision. From her perspective, she feels like she is in charge of everything and when he goes to work everyday he is merely executing on her order to go make money. It doesn't make him seem like the dominant one at all. No matter whether he makes 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 dollars. 

It's all about providing direction and control.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

:iagree: except for the last part...i like "leadership" rather than control





east2west said:


> To my view it isn't about who does what task. There is nothing inherently dominant about going to work at a corporation and earning a paycheck, and nothing inherently submissive about washing dishes and doing laundry. It's about who is creating the vision for the family life, making the plans to turn that vision into a reality and providing a firm hand to make sure that we actually follow through on that vision.
> 
> Every morning there is a conversation that happens before a couple gets out of bed. The wife leans over and says to the husband, "Come on I need you to get up and go to work so we can keep feeding the baby." Or the husband leans over to the wife and says. "You stay here and feed the baby, I'll go to work and make some money so we can buy more food." In the first case the husband is submissive, and in the second case he is dominant. But the division of labor is exactly the same.
> 
> ...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

east2west said:


> When the man complains about not getting sex and the wife responds "I'm too stressed out, I need some more help around the house", she doesn't mean she wants to see her husband wearing an apron and baking cookies or scrubbing the floors on his hands and knees. She means she wants to feel his dominant presence in her homemaking activities, she wants to know he has a vision for the home and that she is making a positive contribution towards that vision. From her perspective, she feels like she is in charge of everything and when he goes to work everyday he is merely executing on her order to go make money. It doesn't make him seem like the dominant one at all. No matter whether he makes 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 dollars.
> 
> *It's all about providing direction and control.*


:iagree:.........and a lot of men just don't get it.
There are lots of guys bringing home decent salaries and getting mediocre sex or none at all.
Lots of wives no longer sexually attracted to their husbands, and they don't understand why.
A man is supposed to LEAD.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

east2west said:


> When the man complains about not getting sex and the wife responds "I'm too stressed out, I need some more help around the house", she doesn't mean she wants to see her husband wearing an apron and baking cookies or scrubbing the floors on his hands and knees. * She means she wants to feel his dominant presence in her homemaking activities, she wants to know he has a vision for the home and that she is making a positive contribution towards that vision. * From her perspective, she feels like she is in charge of everything and when he goes to work everyday he is merely executing on her order to go make money. It doesn't make him seem like the dominant one at all. No matter whether he makes 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 dollars.
> 
> It's all about providing direction and control.


I have no idea what this means. Feel his dominant presence in her homemaking activities? What?


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

jaquen said:


> And this has what exactly to do with my post?


An argument that a practice is true or appropriate simply because followed for most of human history is logically flawed.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

jaharthur;1178093[B said:


> ]An argument that a practice is true or appropriate simply because followed for most of human history is logically flawed.[/B]



So then what is the truth?
Without hijacking the thread, 
I could say that there is no such thing as absolute truth.
That truth is subject to interpretation, and whichever interpretation is accepted an any given point is a function of power.

So what Jacquen is saying is what has been accepted by the majority of people, througout history.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

This is why I don't get into philosophical debates. A good philosopher can present an iron-clad argument for a position and then turn around and provide an iron-clad argument against that same position. I do not pretend my mind is that sharp. The fact is there is absolute truth but how can we know it?

I would also suggest that a new thread be started because this has diverged quiet a bit from the original topic. It will confuse future thread searchers.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> *I would also suggest that a new thread be started because this has diverged quiet a bit from the original topic. It will confuse future thread searchers.*


:iagree:


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Actually...MANY men do. When I was on some online dating sites I used to get emails from men who wanted to share their wives or were looking for a black guy to bang their wives all the time.
Interestingly one of them turned out to be a coworker of mine...long story.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

norajane said:


> I have no idea what this means. Feel his dominant presence in her homemaking activities? What?


Let me give you an example. When I was growing up my mom would often go to my dad, my brother, or me, and ask, "So what sounds good for dinner?". And we would invariably reply with something like "Anything", or "Whatever you want". And then she would get mad. It turned out she was more than happy to prepare dinner for the family, but hating deciding what to make. She would have been perfectly happy if someone else decided what she was to make for each night. The daily stress of trying to guess what would make everybody happy just wore her down. That's because my mom was submissive. If she was dominant her attitude would be more like that old joke; "There are two choices for dinner, take it, or leave it."


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

east2west said:


> Let me give you an example. When I was growing up my mom would often go to my dad, my brother, or me, and ask, "So what sounds good for dinner?". And we would invariably reply with something like "Anything", or "Whatever you want". And then she would get mad. It turned out she was more than happy to prepare dinner for the family, but hating deciding what to make. She would have been perfectly happy if someone else decided what she was to make for each night. The daily stress of trying to guess what would make everybody happy just wore her down. That's because my mom was submissive. If she was dominant her attitude would be more like that old joke; "There are two choices for dinner, take it, or leave it."


I see that as her offering a reasonable solution to the perpetual question of what to make for dinner...i.e., leadership. 

Under your example, wouldn't the dominant/leader thing to do be for the "dominant male" to tell her what he wants for dinner? They're being submissive if they want her to make the decision all the time, right? They themselves are subjecting themselves to "take it or leave it".

Frankly, I just don't see that example in terms of submission and dominance anyway. Maybe that's why I never understand what people are spouting about when this subject comes up. I just don't see it as an issue around every corner, or even particularly relevant to anything. I don't define interactions in those terms.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sandc said:


> SA I'm a little disappointed here. You've always been my sexual heroin. I mean heroine. Like a lot of the others here you appear to be blurring the lines between fantasy and reality. The question isn't would your husband actually go through with it. The question is about the fantasy. I would not allow it to actually happen either. If I actually saw this I would become enraged and OM would get very hurt. But in my head all bets are off. ANYTHING can and does happen in my head. This fantasy turns both S and C on so we just enjoy it for what it is.


I haven't been back on this thread for awhile, so missed this.... Come on SandC, how do I disappoint you.. this is NOT my opionion, this is HIS... I've asked him this question... as A FANTASY --would he like to imagine this, does this DO anything for him....

Still his answer is NO.

Not sure if you are familiar with some of my complaints about my husband, love the man dearly .... but what brought me here.. he is a little TAME....Thank God he loves sex though ..... he doesn't even care to see the man in porn, give him SOLO women every single time. So this is no surprise to me at all... he gets ZERO rise to think of me with someone else.

Now, If I was the Guy... well... how knows. I am much dirtier than my own husband.... what can I say!


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## landon33 (Jul 13, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> Looks like somebody's trying to " rewrite " history...
> But that's not how the how the "west was won."
> ...


Wasn't trying to "rewrite" anything. If you read the post, I never suggested women's equality was a _primary_ force in Western global dominance. 

I just think cultures that were willing to have a Queen as their supreme leader going back hundreds of years, and cultures that let women receive the same educational rights as men, were probably more progressive thinking and likely to ascend to a better place societally than cultures that opposed women doing anything other than birthing children.


To at least add something to the original topic though, yes, I have fantasized about watching my gorgeous girlfriend have sex with someone else but I'm waaay too competitive and jealous to consider converting that thought into reality.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

aston said:


> Actually...MANY men do. When I was on some online dating sites I used to get emails from men who wanted to share their wives or were looking for a black guy to bang their wives all the time.
> Interestingly one of them turned out to be a coworker of mine...long story.


I think those are submissive men who are married to submissive women, who, being submissive, know what their wives need in the bedroom, but have no interest of doing it themselves. They would rather just outsource the job to someone else rather than putting on a show of fake dominant behavior. I don't think they are that small in number either.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

norajane said:


> I see that as her offering a reasonable solution to the perpetual question of what to make for dinner...i.e., leadership.
> 
> Under your example, wouldn't the dominant/leader thing to do be for the "dominant male" to tell her what he wants for dinner? They're being submissive if they want her to make the decision all the time, right? They themselves are subjecting themselves to "take it or leave it".
> 
> Frankly, I just don't see that example in terms of submission and dominance anyway. Maybe that's why I never understand what people are spouting about when this subject comes up. I just don't see it as an issue around every corner, or even particularly relevant to anything. I don't define interactions in those terms.


I think the words dominance and submission carry strong, not necessarily positive connotations. In most human activities involving more than one person there needs to be a leader and one or more followers. I think that is all we are talking about. When nobody wants to play quarterback you get problems.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

aston said:


> Actually...MANY men do. When I was on some online dating sites I used to get emails from men who wanted to share their wives or were looking for a black guy to bang their wives all the time.
> Interestingly one of them turned out to be a coworker of mine...long story.


. :rofl:....to the last part


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Simply amorous....you are feisty today! I mean that with love


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

jaharthur said:


> An argument that a practice is true or appropriate simply because followed for most of human history is logically flawed.


And I would like you to point toward the point in my post, the one that you quoted, where an argument was put forth for how "appropriate" this truth is.

And if you don't believe that males are inherently more dominant than females, despite that theme recurring in the vast majority of all animals on planet Earth, then there really is nothing I can say to that.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

aston said:


> Actually...MANY men do. When I was on some online dating sites I used to get emails from men who wanted to share their wives or were looking for a black guy to bang their wives all the time.
> *Interestingly one of them turned out to be a coworker of mine...long story.*


Awkward.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I haven't been back on this thread for awhile, so missed this.... Come on SandC, how do I disappoint you.. this is NOT my opionion, this is HIS... I've asked him this question... as A FANTASY --would he like to imagine this, does this DO anything for him....
> 
> Still his answer is NO.
> 
> ...


Actually yes I do know you wish your husband could be a bit more... aggressive. Yes I understand completely your point of view. If a fantasy isn't fun for both then it just isn't fun. You guys both have a good thing there.

And you never disappoint.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

its a fantasy only...I like to think of my wife doing it with her movie star crush guys...I think its a passing thing though.....

I very much doubt Id like to see anything of the kind in real world...I mean does everyone take a shower first or what?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

jaquen said:


> And if you don't believe that males are inherently more dominant than females, despite that theme recurring in the vast majority of all animals on planet Earth, then there really is nothing I can say to that.


I don't know how true this is. Males aren't dominant in most insect species, for example. In fact, all they do is mate and die. Spiders too, frogs, reptiles such as crocodiles and snakes, many bird species, such as emperor penguins. All examples of either female dominance, or neutral gender relations.

Maybe you mean mammalian species. Even there male dominance is not a give, elephants, for example, live in matriarchal herds. Hyenas too. Males fight each other, the most successful will mate with the females and then leave again. In some species of heavily antlered deer, the males fight, mate and die, much like insect species. 

I'd say our closest relatives, chimpanzees and bonobos are male dominated societies. Chimps particularly. Gorillas too, but orangutans are not really. They live in more isolated family groups, mostly just made up of a female and her offspring. 

I think male dominance in humans is convenient for society generally and for men, mostly. I think it is very often cruelly repressive for individual women, as countless numbers of them are not able to exercise any type of agency over their lives. Their talents are wasted, and I find that personally very upsetting, particularly as the mother of daughters.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Lyris said:


> I don't know how true this is. Males aren't dominant in most insect species, for example. In fact, all they do is mate and die. Spiders too, frogs, reptiles such as crocodiles and snakes, many bird species, such as emperor penguins. All examples of either female dominance, or neutral gender relations.
> 
> Maybe you mean mammalian species. Even there male dominance is not a give, elephants, for example, live in matriarchal herds. Hyenas too. Males fight each other, the most successful will mate with the females and then leave again. In some species of heavily antlered deer, the males fight, mate and die, much like insect species.
> 
> ...


Lyris i get what you are saying. 

My husband's dominance works for both of us, not just him. 
My talents arent wasted either. My DH fully supports all of my interests and hobbies. I also have a master's and i work.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Lyris said:


> I don't know how true this is. Males aren't dominant in most insect species, for example. In fact, all they do is mate and die. Spiders too, frogs, reptiles such as crocodiles and snakes, many bird species, such as emperor penguins. All examples of either female dominance, or neutral gender relations.
> 
> Maybe you mean mammalian species. Even there male dominance is not a give, elephants, for example, live in matriarchal herds. Hyenas too. Males fight each other, the most successful will mate with the females and then leave again. In some species of heavily antlered deer, the males fight, mate and die, much like insect species.
> 
> ...


This is more of a social than a biological argument. It's not a convenience argument. You alluded to males fighting and the most succesful mates with the females...is that not an assertion of dominance?
I think you're confusing dominance and inequality.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

aston said:


> This is more of a social than a biological argument. It's not a convenience argument. You alluded to males fighting and the most succesful mates with the females...is that not an assertion of dominance?
> I think you're confusing dominance and inequality.


But the fighting is dominance over _other males_, not dominance over the females. They drive the other males away, and then the females are all, "hello, sailor!" to the only male left to procreate with.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

norajane said:


> But the fighting is dominance over _other males_, not dominance over the females. They drive the other males away, and then the females are all, "hello, sailor!" to the only male left to procreate with.


So the dominant male having a _*harem of females *_ to himself after asserting his dominance over the other males has not proven his dominance over the females now bending over for him as well?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

aston said:


> So the dominant male having a _*harem of females *_ to himself after asserting his dominance over the other males has not proven his dominance over the females now bending over for him as well?


They're bending over because they're in heat. He's proven himself fit for baby-making after he dominates over the other males.

After that, they have no interest in him and he's no longer getting laid, but is forced to protect himself from younger males.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

norajane said:


> They're bending over because they're in heat. He's proven himself fit for baby-making after he dominates over the other males.
> 
> After that, they have no interest in him and he's no longer getting laid, but is forced to protect himself from younger males.


Makes sense, I agree with you, happy now?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

aston said:


> Makes sense, I agree with you, happy now?


:rofl::rofl:

Yes, happy now - I love a good sense of humor.


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for reminding me why I never took certain courses in college. 

Jeez, can you say hijacked? I like the way you say hijacked.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

smilinatu said:


> Thanks for reminding me why I never took certain courses in college.
> 
> Jeez, can you say hijacked? I like the way you say hijacked.


I am the op, i dont care.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

freaking disgusting

i would advice not marrying an individual who has those kind of fantasies it will only lead to problems. 



HECK no i do not want to share my wife. you think i have issues in my head?


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

in before people attack me and resort to their pseudo history and psyche to try and argue why i am "wrong"


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> freaking disgusting
> 
> i would advice not marrying an individual who has those kind of fantasy's it will only lead to problems.
> 
> ...


HAHA! I think alot of people watch porn and read all kinds of erotic literature with the assumption that bringing it into their relationships will somehow make things better. May work for some but not for all.

I do have a question, if it was the guys idea (which statistically is probably the case) then we all know how quick everyone is to judge since we guys take most of the blame for everything that goes wrong in relationships.
What if it's the womans idea to share...?


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

aston said:


> So the dominant male having a _*harem of females *_ to himself after asserting his dominance over the other males has not proven his dominance over the females now bending over for him as well?


He has and it ties into what Lyris slightly said in that the female is repressed. 

This is not the case in all fields of life but is in many. When it comes to humans far to complex to take purely biological approaches towards their development.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

aston said:


> HAHA! I think alot of people watch porn and read all kinds of erotic literature with the assumption that bringing it into their relationships will somehow make things better. May work for some but not for all.
> 
> I do have a question, if it was the guys idea (which statistically is probably the case) then we all know how quick everyone is to judge since we guys take most of the blame for everything that goes wrong in relationships.
> What if it's the womans idea to share...?


heck even worse if its her idea to share.. Males function and design is to spread their seed

her wishing to share would show much larger flaws than the male

of course now for what i just said.. I will have all the equality nuts attacking me trying to profess how "we are truly the same"

reality is there are huge differences between the sexes just like differences exist between races.. If you want to look in the larger scope of things sure we are all connected biologically and to the earth chemically and such. But i am talking about why we evolved in certain ways and why certain traits are profound in others.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> freaking disgusting
> 
> i would advice not marrying an individual who has those kind of fantasies it will only lead to problems.
> 
> ...


Well, i am already married to him....so are you suggesting that i divorce him?

Puh-lease


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Gold member, i see that you are a divorce lawyer.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> heck even worse if its her idea to share.. Males function and design is to spread their seed
> 
> her wishing to share would show much larger flaws than the male
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you on this one. There are huge differences between the sexes.
The equality nuts will be attacking you shortly...I'm watching the countdown lol. Why people try to use social arguments over biological and anthropological facts still astound me lol.

I'm counting until the equality nazi pull a blitskerig on you...lol


----------



## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

k


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> Gold member, i see that you are a divorce lawyer.


LOL ain't that telling? LOL. Just remember REGARDLESS of who wins the lawyers always get paid LOL.

Thats why through my separation my ex and I did everything. Not a cent to a lawyer and we're better for it.
I know more divorces that started really well and the minute a lawyer gets involved everything went to *hit. LOL


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Well, i am already married to him....*so are you suggesting that i divorce him?
> *
> Puh-lease


depends

you can make it work. but in my experience and i have lots of experience around helping people and dealing with the brain and divorces.

This does not bode well..

I do not wish to give an overly long post and breakdown of why its particular a thing to be worried about. People find out for their own often the hard way. such is life

peace


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Lyris said:


> I don't know how true this is. Males aren't dominant in most insect species, for example. In fact, all they do is mate and die. Spiders too, frogs, reptiles such as crocodiles and snakes, many bird species, such as emperor penguins. All examples of either female dominance, or neutral gender relations.
> 
> Maybe you mean mammalian species. Even there male dominance is not a give, elephants, for example, live in matriarchal herds. Hyenas too. Males fight each other, the most successful will mate with the females and then leave again. In some species of heavily antlered deer, the males fight, mate and die, much like insect species.
> 
> ...


You have no sons?


----------



## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

yeah lawyers are often miserable or terrible people with often pessimistic views about humans and the human condition. Many are quite optimistic about the future (as i am) and how we are advancing thanks to the actions of the intellectuals and elites. But when i look at my fellow man i shake my head with much disgust at his actions and self destructive tendencies.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> depends
> 
> you can make it work. but in my experience and i have lots of experience around helping people and dealing with the brain and divorces.
> 
> ...


I have the same fantasy. My wife and I have been married for 25 years. She has known about this fantasy for over 10 years now. I shared her once when we tried swinging. We didn't like it. No longer do that. I love her deeply and she loves me deeply. I still have the fantasies.

Should she divorce me?


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> depends
> 
> you can make it work. but in my experience and i have lots of experience around helping people and dealing with the brain and divorces.
> 
> ...


Goldmember, 

......And I know about the brain and working with people who do not necessarily want to get a divorce. 

The idea of getting a divorce over one stupid fantasy is crazy. 

I am well aware that i can make it work. I really didnt think my marriage was hanging by a thread over this fantasy anyway.


----------



## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> yeah lawyers are often miserable or terrible people with often pessimistic views about humans and the human condition. Many are quite optimistic about the future (as i am) and how we are advancing thanks to the actions of the intellectuals and elites. But when i look at my fellow man i shake my head with much disgust at his actions and self destructive tendencies.


HAHA well said, thats why I opted out of law school LOL. At the end of the day after being a catalyst for decimating an initially amicable separation, traumatizing their divorcee clients children and driving both parties into further debt they still send you a nicely itemized bill LOL. Encyclopedic oxymoron lol.


----------



## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

You do not want to know my true opinions about human beings or the actions so many folk on here are proud to admit.

I will leave it at that.

People find out on their own and so often the hard way. 


I will say this much of the behavior man does that i have disgust for is precisely because it does nothing to further us as a species.


----------



## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> Goldmember,
> 
> ......And I know about the brain and working with people who do not necessarily want to get a divorce.
> 
> ...


Very true....a divorce over a fantasy makes no sense. Not even worth a "consultation" if you asked me because before you know it the lawyer will plant the seeds of iniquity etc in your head and you'll walk out worse than you did going into his/her office LOL


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> You do not want to know my true opinions about human beings or the actions so many folk on here are proud to admit.
> 
> I will leave it at that.
> 
> ...


I dont get what this has to do with my original question.


----------



## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

aston said:


> I completely agree with you on this one. There are huge differences between the sexes.
> The equality nuts will be attacking you shortly...I'm watching the countdown lol. Why people try to use social arguments over biological and anthropological facts still astound me lol.
> 
> I'm counting until the equality nazi pull a blitskerig on you...lol


I feel like this comment is directed at me because I was the one arguing that men are not naturally dominant over women. For the record I don't believe in any kind of equality. I just think that both men and women tend more towards the submissive side. We are more likely to be followers than leaders. That is all.


----------



## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

east2west said:


> I feel like this comment is directed at me because I was the one arguing that men are not naturally dominant over women. For the record I don't believe in any kind of equality. I just think that both men and women tend more towards the submissive side. We are more likely to be followers than leaders. That is all.


east2west, I never direct my comments at anyone, I was only stating an opinion . It's all good .


----------



## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Goldmember,
> 
> ......*And I know about the brain and working with people who do not necessarily want to get a divorce. *
> 
> ...


What's your background might i ask? 



aston said:


> Very true....a divorce over a fantasy makes no sense. Not even worth a "consultation" if you asked me because before you know it the lawyer will plant the seeds of iniquity etc in your head and you'll walk out worse than you did going into his/her office LOL


That's true.. The lawyer is often an excellent con man and able to outsmart individuals in his quest for profit to fuel his greed!..

But to be honest i so often promote divorce on here not to push people to put money in a divorce lawyers pocket.. But rather TO HELP THEM.

people are self destructive and miserable just look at this site!!! marriage is not for most people and most people are quite frankly not capable of truly loving someone or having a long lasting healthy marriage. The reason most people are not capable of this is because of their own actions. 

Self destructiveness and materialism is ever so rampant today. Constantly chasing a feeling or a item is the downfall of so many individuals. I see it all the time on this site.. I feel i can almost predict how long until someone is going to file for divorce when i read so many of these posts and threads based off the lack of stability a person displays and reading how they and their spouse conduct themselves.

This site for me is actually depressing i come here and am appalled and depressed by how my fellow man behaves and how weak and destructive they are. 



missymrs80 said:


> I dont get what this has to do with my original question.


How?


----------



## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> That's true.. The lawyer is often an excellent con man and able to outsmart individuals in his quest for profit to fuel his greed!..
> 
> But to be honest i so often promote divorce on here not to push people to put money in a divorce lawyers pocket.. But rather TO HELP THEM.
> 
> ...


I'm not disagreeing with you and you DO make very valid points on materialism, self destructive actions and what society has become.
I'm hoping you're not taking this personal, it's really not directed at you.


----------



## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

ha no its fine i like criticism i find it often amusing when one critiques me and its wrong.

But yeah i can admit the truth about Lawyers and the evil institutions that are law schools HA.. Not all are bad but man i can tell some stories.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Goldmember,

Im a therapist
I dont want to say my specific credentials though 

Also im not on here to act as a therapist FYI.
I am just being my self.


----------



## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

Yes human nature sucks and the institutions we create suck even more. Now back to wife sharing.

I just had a new fantasy. My wife as a dominatrix training another girl. I don't want to get involved, just watch. I'd be so proud of her


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Goldmember,

Tell me how this fantasy does not end well. You say it as if there is something dark behind all of this. Remember, you see couples who are coming to you at their worst. It may seem everyone is screwed up bc you spend your whle day with it.


----------



## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

east2west said:


> Yes human nature sucks and the institutions we create suck even more. Now back to wife sharing.
> 
> I just had a new fantasy. My wife as a dominatrix training another girl. I don't want to get involved, just watch. I'd be so proud of her


Does the girl have a gag and bound ankles to ears? LOL ok I'm falling off the wagon here lol


----------



## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

so you obviously have post graduate degree in psychology.

Do you not see a correlation to fantasies and differences between fantasies and how they might tie into an individuals behavior?


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

east2west said:


> Yes human nature sucks and the institutions we create suck even more. Now back to wife sharing.
> 
> I just had a new fantasy. My wife as a dominatrix training another girl. I don't want to get involved, just watch. I'd be so proud of her


How would you describe your wife in real life? Just wondering what she is like compared to the fantasy you have of her.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> so you obviously have post graduate degree in psychology.
> 
> Do you not see a correlation to fantasies and differences between fantasies and how they might tie into an individuals behavior?


My EW was a psychiatrist......but she only dealt with the criminally insane lol


----------



## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

aston said:


> Does the girl have a gag and bound ankles to ears? LOL ok I'm falling off the wagon here lol


Stop it your not supposed to turn people on in the Sex Section. It in the rules


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> so you obviously have post graduate degree in psychology.
> 
> Do you not see a correlation to fantasies and differences between fantasies and how they might tie into an individuals behavior?


Yes, but...

You are taking one small piece of info and applying it to the outcome of something that is very complex.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

east2west said:


> Stop it your not supposed to turn people on in the Sex Section. It in the rules


OK LOL, keeping with the rules :lol:


----------



## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> How would you describe your wife in real life? Just wondering what she is like compared to the fantasy you have of her.


Well she can be quite the alpha b!tch among women. I think that's what gives me the idea. She never had much interest in women sexually. But for some reason its not hard to imagine her flogging one.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

I see this particular fantasy as once which which does not go away and will see that certain things occur to indulge in it. I just do not view it as a healthy fantasy at all for a marriage and it goes against fundamentals that i believe are inherent in a male remaining a male and sustaining his own evolutionary advancement of his kin.


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> I see this particular fantasy as once which which does not go away and will see that certain things occur to indulge in it. I just do not view it as a healthy fantasy at all for a marriage and it goes against fundamentals that i believe are inherent in a male remaining a male and sustaining his own evolutionary advancement of his kin.


You have my attention..what certain things will occur do you think?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Goldmember357 said:


> I see this particular fantasy as once which which does not go away and will see that certain things occur to indulge in it. I just do not view it as a healthy fantasy at all for a marriage and it goes against fundamentals that i believe are inherent in a male remaining a male and sustaining his own evolutionary advancement of his kin.


So are you saying that if I do this my kids will disappear?


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> so are you saying that if i do this my kids will disappear?


lmfao!!


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> You have my attention..what certain things will occur do you think?


Well you are the psychiatrist i have not done such works for a long time you are surely more up to date on how fantasies emerge and what they might signify.

I feel you will be be pressured into a threesome, it will cause huge problems. you two might attempt swinging to see if it will lead to pleasure again. Eventually the connection that was physical be will be degraded. Your husband might make more demands and his views on what is pleasure and his wife are ever so changing.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I am not a psychiatrist.

I can interpret my husband's fantasy in several different ways.
He doesnt want to act on it. He would never pressure me to do anything.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> Well you are the psychiatrist i have not done such works for a long time you are surely more up to date on how fantasies emerge and what they might signify.
> 
> I feel you will be be pressured into a threesome, it will cause huge problems. you two might attempt swinging to see if it will lead to pleasure again. Eventually the connection that was physical be will be degraded. Your husband might make more demands and his views on what is pleasure and his wife are ever so changing.


I know no one read my post from about an hour ago so I will repost. My wife and I did this exact thing. We are still married. 25 years.

You *feel* she will be pressured?


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

you may be a rare case. Typically from my own research with people on these issues

its detrimental.

and even if you think "wont act on it""

still does not change the brush of stimuli in their head that occurs.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> you may be a rare case. Typically from my own research with people on these issues
> 
> its detrimental.
> 
> ...


That stimulus is in my head. But we aren't animals. We don't just act on every thought that comes into our heads. If I did there would be slightly fewer drivers on the road. Just because someone has a thought does not mean they MUST act on it. How many times have you been attracted to a woman and wanted to have sex with her but did not? Won't you eventually run into a woman that you are so attracted to that you MUST have sex with her?


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

sandc said:


> That stimulus is in my head. But we aren't animals. We don't just act on every thought that comes into our heads. If I did there would be slightly fewer drivers on the road. Just because someone has a thought does not mean they MUST act on it. How many times have you been attracted to a woman and wanted to have sex with her but did not? Won't you eventually run into a woman that you are so attracted to that you MUST have sex with her?


thats called RAPE if you must LMAO


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

ha


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

aston said:


> thats called RAPE if you must LMAO


  Not necessarily. It's just called sex if the woman is receptive to your sexual advances. If you're married and you do this it's called adultery. If you do this without the woman's express consent it is in fact rape.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

sandc said:


> That stimulus is in my head. But we aren't animals. We don't just act on every thought that comes into our heads. If I did there would be slightly fewer drivers on the road. Just because someone has a thought does not mean they MUST act on it. How many times have you been attracted to a woman and wanted to have sex with her but did not? Won't you eventually run into a woman that you are so attracted to that you MUST have sex with her?


i will respond to this later with much more depth. On what i am getting at


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> you may be a rare case. Typically from my own research with people on these issues
> 
> its detrimental.
> 
> ...


Actual research? As in peer-reviewed studies, adjusted for bias? Or just talking to people who are unhappily married? 

Because the only study I'm aware if was a very small one that followed 50 monogomous couples and 50 non-monogomous couples. At the end of the study there was no difference in the success rates r reported happiness of the relationships. There was a report on it on This American Life.

And Sandc, no, I don't have sons.

Missymrs, I'm glad your relationship works for you, but there are millions of women around the world who live in male-dominated marriages where they are not allowed to work, study, handle money or achieve any personal ambitions. From the tenor of some of the replies in this thread, it sounds like some men here would be all for that.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

It believe it really needs to be reiterated that dominance does not equate to inequality. The two can be mutually exclusive.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

jaquen said:


> It believe it really needs to be reiterated that dominance does not equate to inequality. The two can be mutually exclusive.


Do you mean that dominance and equality can co-exist? I suppose they can, if both parties are happy with the balance. But what if they're not? If male dominance is a natural law, which is what your earlier posts were saying, and an individual woman, or hundreds of individual women, are not happy with their personal subordinate situations, then male dominance is being forced upon them. I don't think you can argue that state of affairs is in any way consonant with equality.

And very often, in practice, male dominance does lead to inequality. Inequality of opportunity, for example. Globally, girls are much less likely to be educated than boys. Male dominance may or may not work in individual relationships, but on a societal level it can be and is, in many places, catastrophic for girls and women.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

aston said:


> This is more of a social than a biological argument. It's not a convenience argument. You alluded to males fighting and the most succesful mates with the females...is that not an assertion of dominance?
> I think you're confusing dominance and inequality.


I missed this one before. I have a good command of the English language and am well aware of the difference in definition between dominance and inequality. Dominance can very easily lead to inequality if it is generally accepted as a natural or desirable state for all people. 

I suppose you could argue that neither dominance nor submission are inherently superior, but in practice, those who are dominant are more likely to have a better time. They're more likely to be educated, have better employment opportunities, less likely to be killed or injured by their spouse.

A dominant person who doesn't like a situation has more ability to change it. A person who has been put and kept in a subordinate position has less ability to make changes. They are at the mercy of the goodwill of those in power.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lyris said:


> Do you mean that dominance and equality can co-exist? I suppose they can, if both parties are happy with the balance. But what if they're not? If male dominance is a natural law, which is what your earlier posts were saying, and an individual woman, or hundreds of individual women, are not happy with their personal subordinate situations, then male dominance is being forced upon them. I don't think you can argue that state of affairs is in any way consonant with equality.
> 
> And very often, in practice, male dominance does lead to inequality. Inequality of opportunity, for example. Globally, girls are much less likely to be educated than boys. Male dominance may or may not work in individual relationships, but on a societal level it can be and is, in many places, catastrophic for girls and women.


Inherent in any dominant position, regardless of sex, is a responsibility to not abuse that power. There will always be a dominant presence. Always. Certainly if we take a look at the microcosm that is TAM, where many women are the dominant presence in their marriage, you so wide spread abuse as well.

"Male" dominance isn't the problem. Human beings are the problem. If the switch flipped, and suddenly women became the widely dominant power in the world, you would still see abuse of that power. Already the current western world is seeing women become the more dominant presence in a few areas, including marriage, and predictably we are seeing widespread abuse.

So no, a dominant position does not automatically equate to inequality. You are not unequal to your boss just because you have a submissive position. There will always be a leader, but that basic life fact doesn't excuse inequality and abuse of power.

It comes down to responsibility. And some will handle that well, and some will not. That is the rule of thumb regardless of who ends up being in the dominant position.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm not equal in power or responsibility to my boss. I'm equal as a human being, I suppose, but I'm more interested in practicalities. 

What do you mean by widespread abuse by women in marriages in the western world? Not physical abuse, although I know that does occur occasionally. Emotional abuse? There are plenty of male emotional abusers out there. I'd say it would be rare for a man to be in a position to be financially abused, as men are still overwhelmingly the higher earners. 

And it is specifically male dominance that causes countless problems for millions, hundreds of millions, of women around the world. Maybe it's true that if the power flipped you'd get boy children being sold into marriage, their prostates removed so sexual enjoyment was impossible, boys not sent to school, boys killed to protect their families' honour, male politicians ridiculed for their clothes, hairstyles or choice not to have children, but that doesn't let men in the real world off the hook. 

There have been societies without obvious leaders that have functioned quite well for hundreds of years. Those archaelogical sites in Turkey show that. So I don't think having 'a leader' is always necessary. 

In my own marriage, there's not one leader either. He makes most of the decisions regarding our finances, I make most of them regarding our children. Both of us have veto power over any decision the other makes. Division of responsibility and interdependence. But just because that particular division suits me, doesn't mean it is right for everyone or that it should be prescribed as the One True Way.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lyris said:


> I'm not equal in power or responsibility to my boss. I'm equal as a human being, I suppose, but I'm more interested in practicalities.


I was specifically referring to quality as a human being. So...



Lyris said:


> What do you mean by widespread abuse by women in marriages in the western world?


I'm talking specifically about the widespread, and generally acceptable, ability for wives to hold men's sexuality hostage in marriage, and the continued villainization of male sexuality. That's a relatively new social concept, and is a direct byproduct of the feminist movement. In an attempt to empower women sexually (a good thing), it's largely become acceptable for men to grovel for sex from their wives, and there is a lot of negativity thrown toward the natural, normal male sexual appetite and drive. In this particular way, IMO at least, the pendulum has swung too far.

And in a broader sense, I think there is a continued attack against masculinity in the Western world that has arisen in direct correlation with the rise in the celebration of all things feminine. 



Lyris said:


> And it is specifically male dominance that causes countless problems for millions, hundreds of millions, of women around the world. Maybe it's true that if the power flipped you'd get boy children being sold into marriage, their prostates removed so sexual enjoyment was impossible, boys not sent to school, boys killed to protect their families' honour, male politicians ridiculed for their clothes, hairstyles or choice not to have children, but that doesn't let men in the real world off the hook.


Never made any attempt to "let men off the hook", so I can't address this.



Lyris said:


> There have been societies without obvious leaders that have functioned quite well for hundreds of years. Those archaelogical sites in Turkey show that. So I don't think having 'a leader' is always necessary.


Human beings always fall into a hierarchical situation. Be that at the family level, or the level of great civilization, there is no such thing as a leaderless social structure. 

Even in situations where there appears to be no discernible leader, like with a group of friends, or in some marriages, if you dig deep enough you will always find one person who leads more than the other.

This is the way we are built.


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I think its healthy for there to be explicit structure in a home....meaning one guy in charge. If anything, my life as a woman is better that way. 

I never feel like i am missing out on anything or that i am not my authentic self.


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Yes and there was a study where the took dominant rats from various groups and put them together and even rats that previously dominant became submissive with one dominant rat. I think it was rats....lol


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I think its healthy for there to be explicit structure in a home....meaning one guy in charge. If anything, my life as a woman is better that way.
> 
> I never feel like i am missing out on anything or that i am not my authentic self.


Is that because you made a conscious choice for it to be that way?

In other words, 
It's not that way because of any circumstance. 
Yo had options, and you chose this way ?


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

> I'm talking specifically about the widespread, and generally acceptable, ability for wives to hold men's sexuality hostage in marriage, and the continued villainization of male sexuality. That's a relatively new social concept, and is a direct byproduct of the feminist movement. In an attempt to empower women sexually (a good thing), it's largely become acceptable for men to grovel for sex from their wives, and there is a lot of negativity thrown toward the natural, normal male sexual appetite and drive. In this particular way, IMO at least, the pendulum has swung too far.


There is a lot of general sex-negativity, not solely directed at men or male sexuality. ****-shaming is rife, you don't have to look very far on this board alone to find plenty of threads with men uncomfortable with their wives sexual pasts. 

Historically, men have been frightened of female sexuality, and used all kinds of societal restraints to control in and avoid the possibility of the ambiguous baby. Marriage itself is one way to control female sexuality. Clitoradectamies, burqas and threats of violence are others. 

The whole "lady in the streets, ***** in the sheets" phrase that gets thrown around here all the time is a good example of men basically saying,"I want you to be sexual, but only so far as it suits me.". Well, shut a woman's sexuality down long enough and you're going to get some undesirable outcomes. 

And it's pretty arrogant to make sweeping statements about the entirety of human society and history with regards it hierarchical structures and leaderships. Do your friendship groups really have leaders? That seems strange to me.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Yes and there was a study where the took dominant rats from various groups and put them together and even rats that previously dominant became submissive with one dominant rat. I think it was rats....lol


For you. You made that choice. I don't want to live that way, and that's as valid a choice as yours. I'm 20 years in to a very successful relationship with my first and only love, so living without one person in charge works fine here. 

There's more than one way to have a successful relationship.


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Is that because you made a conscious choice for it to be that way?
> 
> In other words,
> It's not that way because of any circumstance.
> Yo had options, and you chose this way ?


Yes, i came to him after reading The Surrendered Wife and told him i wanted it this way. We talk about it a lot.

I used to be very controlling. Feels nice to give that up.


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Lyris said:


> For you. You made that choice. I don't want to live that way, and that's as valid a choice as yours. I'm 20 years in to a very successful relationship with my first and only love, so living without one person in charge works fine here.
> 
> There's more than one way to have a successful relationship.


I wonder what you think i am missing out on though.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Yes, i came to him after reading The Surrendered Wife and told him i wanted it this way. We talk about it a lot.
> 
> I used to be very controlling. Feels nice to give that up.


Sounds like my wife.
Very strong willed and independent, but she gave up her stuff to work with me in our business.

The important thing IMO, is that it does not make you feel less than your potential.


----------



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Sounds like my wife.
> Very strong willed and independent, but she gave up her stuff to work with me in our business.
> 
> The important thing IMO, is that it does not make you feel less than your potential.


Not at all. B/c i havent given up my potential at all. Its really just a way of communicating differently or relating to one another differently. 

And what has really ended up happening is that i put him first but he always, and i mean always, puts me first.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lyris said:


> There is a lot of general sex-negativity, not solely directed at men or male sexuality. ****-shaming is rife, you don't have to look very far on this board alone to find plenty of threads with men uncomfortable with their wives sexual pasts.
> 
> Historically, men have been frightened of female sexuality, and used all kinds of societal restraints to control in and avoid the possibility of the ambiguous baby. Marriage itself is one way to control female sexuality. Clitoradectamies, burqas and threats of violence are others.
> 
> The whole "lady in the streets, ***** in the sheets" phrase that gets thrown around here all the time is a good example of men basically saying,"I want you to be sexual, but only so far as it suits me.". Well, shut a woman's sexuality down long enough and you're going to get some undesirable outcomes.


The fact that females have a long, well documented history of sexual stigmatization by men doesn't really nullify discussion of changing, negative perceptions of male sexuality.



Lyris said:


> And it's pretty arrogant to make sweeping statements about the entirety of human society and history with regards it hierarchical structures and leaderships. Do your friendship groups really have leaders? That seems strange to me.


It's "arrogant" to mention what is widely considered to be an anthropological fact?

OK.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I wonder what you think i am missing out on though.


What? I don't have any opinion about what you might be missing out on. You decided what you wanted, you talked to your husband and you are happy with your relationship dynamic. Awesome.

I don't want to live feeling that someone else has the final say over what happens in my life. That's not appealing in any way to me. But I have no expectation that everyone live like me, or that the way I live is somehow better than they way you do. As long as you're happy, great.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

jaquen said:


> The fact that females have a long, well documented history of sexual stigmatization by men doesn't really nullify discussion of changing, negative perceptions of male sexuality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wasn't trying to nullify it. I am of the opinion that sex, liking sex, is often viewed negatively whether you are male or female. It takes the form of ****-shaming for women and contempt along the lines of "is that all you think about?" for men. Two sides of the same coin.

And yeah, I think it's arrogant to assume that what you personally think, believe and experience is true for every person, in every place at every time. I am telling you there is no one leader in my marriage. There is no leader in my family or origin. There is no hierarchy of leadership in my group of friends. If you dismiss my experience as untrue or fantastical because it doesn't jibe with your own world view, then that's an arrogant way of thinking.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lyris said:


> I wasn't trying to nullify it. I am of the opinion that sex, liking sex, is often viewed negatively whether you are male or female. It takes the form of ****-shaming for women and contempt along the lines of "is that all you think about?" for men. Two sides of the same coin.
> 
> And yeah, I think it's arrogant to assume that what you personally think, believe and experience is true for every person, in every place at every time. I am telling you there is no one leader in my marriage. There is no leader in my family or origin. There is no hierarchy of leadership in my group of friends. If you dismiss my experience as untrue or fantastical because it doesn't jibe with your own world view, then that's an arrogant way of thinking.


OK.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

Lyris said:


> Missymrs, I'm glad your relationship works for you, but there are millions of women around the world who live in male-dominated marriages where they are not allowed to work, study, handle money or achieve any personal ambitions. From the tenor of some of the replies in this thread, it sounds like some men here would be all for that.


I think there is dominance, which is the tendency to lead rather than follow, with the intention of guiding the group to the most beneficial outcome.

And there is abuse or oppression, which is the tendency to use one's dominance to benefit at the expense of the other members of the group.

I think these definitions correspond roughly to what we call alpha and beta. alpha = the tendency to lead. beta = tendency to make the unselfish decisions. The tendency to make good decisions is fairly useless if you do not actually step up to the plate and make decisions.

There was a good post on MMSL about how alpha and beta are not really points on a line, more like two different dimensions entirely. 

Fitness Testing vs Loyalty Testing | Married Man Sex Life

If you're really low in alpha and really high in beta we call you a pu$$y. If you are really high in alpha and really low in beta then we call you an a$$hole. If you are low in both then you're that guy no one really knows. And if you're high in both then we call you boss.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

The discussion of dominance is interesting. Too bad it's in a thread where many will never find it.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Lyris said:


> I missed this one before. I have a good command of the English language and am well aware of the difference in definition between dominance and inequality. Dominance can very easily lead to inequality if it is generally accepted as a natural or desirable state for all people.
> 
> I suppose you could argue that neither dominance nor submission are inherently superior, but in practice, those who are dominant are more likely to have a better time. They're more likely to be educated, have better employment opportunities, less likely to be killed or injured by their spouse.
> 
> A dominant person who doesn't like a situation has more ability to change it. A person who has been put and kept in a subordinate position has less ability to make changes. They are at the mercy of the goodwill of those in power.


LOL, your assumptions are interesting but greatly blankets the dominated based on a single assumption of accepting the dominant. So why do revolutions happen and why do dominated spouses in many cases snap and reverse positions in the extreme? For example she freaks out one day and stabd him 56 times to the death or slowly kills him softly with poison or wakes up one day and divorce him taking everything and leaving him destitute? Now who's the "dominator"? lol
Never assume a dominated person has less or no ability to change their situation.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

east2west said:


> I think there is dominance, which is the tendency to lead rather than follow, with the intention of guiding the group to the most beneficial outcome.
> 
> And there is abuse or oppression, which is the tendency to use one's dominance to benefit at the expense of the other members of the group.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::iagree:


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

aston said:


> LOL, your assumptions are interesting but greatly blankets the dominated based on a single assumption of accepting the dominant. So why do revolutions happen and why do dominated spouses in many cases snap and reverse positions in the extreme? For example she freaks out one day and stabd him 56 times to the death or slowly kills him softly with poison or wakes up one day and divorce him taking everything and leaving him destitute? Now who's the "dominator"? lol
> Never assume a dominated person has less or no ability to change their situation.


I didn't use any absolutes in my post, as I don't believe they exist. If you read it again you'll see I used 'more likely' and 'less likely', both qualifying terms. 

Of course a dominated person has less ability to change their situation. Less doesn't mean none.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Lyris said:


> I didn't use any absolutes in my post, as I don't believe they exist. If you read it again you'll see I used 'more likely' and 'less likely', both qualifying terms.
> 
> Of course a dominated person has less ability to change their situation. Less doesn't mean none.


I totally have the ability to change anything and everything. I am not married to an *******.

He does what is in the best interest of me and our future family unit. And i trust that he knows what that is.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I totally have the ability to change anything and everything. I am not married to an *******.
> 
> He does what is in the best interest of me and our future family unit. And i trust that he knows what that is.


I have this strong fantasy which i often put to good use as foreplay to prepare myself for our intimacy and during our actual lovemaking ........ i guage her mood to involve or not involve my thoughts while making love. 

Since being on TAM i realized that it is best to leave it where it is now ............ for the best interest of our relationship and our family being a whole. As exciting as it is ...... it's not worth risking our family life that we love so much !!!


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

I've had some guys share their wives with me. 

I honestly don't know why anyone would do that. I would never share my woman.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

No, I have never had that fantasy. When you truly respect and cherish someone you don't share them. You don't fanticise about it, you don't think about it, you don't plan to share them and you do not execute a plan to share them. It's just wrong. Sex is an intimate act that secures the bond between two people in love. To step outside of that just denegrates the whole sanctity of a loving, respectful committed relationship. Being a sl_t or a man-wh0re is not an acceptable part of being married. Married means "having only unto you and foresaking all others." 

If all you want is sex, do not get married and hire a hooker.


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## Ghost88 (Dec 9, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> No, I have never had that fantasy. When you truly respect and cherish someone you don't share them. You don't fanticise about it, you don't think about it, you don't plan to share them and you do not execute a plan to share them. It's just wrong. Sex is an intimate act that secures the bond between two people in love. To step outside of that just denegrates the whole sanctity of a loving, respectful committed relationship. Being a sl_t or a man-wh0re is not an acceptable part of being married. Married means "having only unto you and foresaking all others."
> 
> If all you want is sex, do not get married and hire a hooker.


Your opinion and glad it works for you. But you don't define what other people think about (thought police anyone?), or do. Relationship dynamics can be different and what works for yours may be different for others. Having a fantasy and sharing it with your partner is different than actually doing it. Not that I pass judgement on that either.

Oh and in answer to the OP, yep I do fantasize about it.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

To the OP: Be very careful. My DH had this fantasy and shared it with me. Then eventually he worked to make it a reality and I went along w/ it.
The reality was something else entirely. Now there is just a lot of suffering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

OP has been very articulate in saying that she and her husband would never do this, they just enjoy the fantasy. 

And for the record, I agree with you. It is not a good idea to make this a reality. My wife and I have had third parties involved in our marriage and it took us years to recover. Sorry you have been hurt.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

I don't know if hubby has had this fantasy. He did say he wished I was twins so he could have two of me at the same time.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

curlysue321 said:


> I don't know if hubby has had this fantasy. He did say he wished I was twins so he could have two of me at the same time.


I've always told my wife I wish I could clone her.

I mean her twin sister might not be into that but her clone would.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

I would willingly share my wife with anyone if she would agree to it mainly because I myself would then be free to seek out sex with other women outside the marriage. When I suggested to my wife that she was free to have sex outside the marriage (because our marriage had been sexless for many years) she refused thereby forcing us both to continue to be sexually celibate within the marriage. But if she ever changed her mind I'd agree to it in a heartbeat.


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## xyz000 (Nov 20, 2012)

A few years ago my husband had a dream where he walked in on me and his best friend going at it... and he seemed to enjoy the idea.

Not that he would ever probably want that to really happen, but he has had several dreams of me and other guys so.... LOL.


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## Batty (Dec 20, 2012)

Mr B said:


> I would willingly share my wife with anyone if she would agree to it mainly because I myself would then be free to seek out sex with other women outside the marriage. When I suggested to my wife that she was free to have sex outside the marriage (because our marriage had been sexless for many years) she refused thereby forcing us both to continue to be sexually celibate within the marriage. But if she ever changed her mind I'd agree to it in a heartbeat.


It may be her choice to not have sex with you, but she can't "force" you to be celibate. After years without sex, you are more than entitled to seek pleasure elsewhere.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> No, I have never had that fantasy. When you truly respect and cherish someone you don't share them. You don't fanticise about it, you don't think about it, you don't plan to share them and you do not execute a plan to share them. It's just wrong. Sex is an intimate act that secures the bond between two people in love. To step outside of that just denegrates the whole sanctity of a loving, respectful committed relationship. Being a sl_t or a man-wh0re is not an acceptable part of being married. Married means "having only unto you and foresaking all others."
> 
> If all you want is sex, do not get married and hire a hooker.


Not everything in life is black & white


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

_Openness to experience – (inventive/curious vs. consistent/cautious). Appreciation for art, emotion, adventure, unusual ideas, curiosity, and variety of experience. Openness reflects the degree of intellectual curiosity, creativity and a preference for novelty and variety. Some disagreement remains about how to interpret the openness factor, which is sometimes called "intellect" rather than openness to experience. 

- Big Five personality traits, Wikipedia_


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Not everything in life is black & white


I beg to differ! When it comes to physical intamacy, yes it is!


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> I beg to differ! When it comes to physical intamacy, yes it is!



It's black and white in your marriage, in your view, and your life.

The problem comes when you have the audacity to speak for everyone else, which is what you did in a previous post. Do what works for your sexuality, and sexual life, and let others decide what works best for them.

Easy, simple.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Batty said:


> It may be her choice to not have sex with you, but she can't "force" you to be celibate. After years without sex, you are more than entitled to seek pleasure elsewhere.


No it is the other way around. It's me who doesn't want to have sex with her and so she punishes me by preventing either of us from having sex. It's crazy.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

jaquen said:


> It's black and white in your marriage, in your view, and your life.
> 
> The problem comes when you have the audacity to speak for everyone else, which is what you did in a previous post. Do what works for your sexuality, and sexual life, and let others decide what works best for them.
> 
> Easy, simple.


I do not speak for anyone else, just me. 

I represent no organization or political or social wing, just me. 

I have stated many times what type of behaviour disgusts me; some agree with me, some do not. Its called free speech and freedom of expression. 

I do not police other peoples thoughts, I merely state opinions that are mine, if one chooses to share my opinion, then so be it, if one chooses not to agree, well that's fine too. I am not the "thought police", nor am I your conscience. What you do in the privacy of your home is not my business. If it illeagle however, the authoities will certianly be interested. 

I just hate it though, when people try to cram opinions that I find repugnent down my throat, then tell me that my opinion is wrong. Like it or not I have a high of moral code that is generated from the majority of the society in which I live. Where I come from, and the society in which I live and socialize, sharing your wife with other people in a sexual way is wrong. You don't have to like it, it just is. Sorry if my opinion offends some of you, but some of yours offends me.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

My STBXW had this fantasy about sharing herself with another man on summer weekends in the city when I had the kids at the cottage.

ohh wait.... it's supposed to stay a fantasy!!


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> I do not speak for anyone else, just me.
> 
> I represent no organization or political or social wing, just me.
> 
> I have stated many times what type of behaviour disgusts me; some agree with me, some do not. Its called free speech and freedom of expression.




Your wording suggests otherwise:



old_soldier said:


> No, I have never had that fantasy. When you truly respect and cherish someone you don't share them. You don't fanticise about it, you don't think about it, you don't plan to share them and you do not execute a plan to share them. It's just wrong. Sex is an intimate act that secures the bond between two people in love. To step outside of that just denegrates the whole sanctity of a loving, respectful committed relationship. Being a sl_t or a man-wh0re is not an acceptable part of being married. Married means "having only unto you and foresaking all others."
> 
> If all you want is sex, do not get married and hire a hooker.


This is speaking clearly to, about, the universal "you". Nothing in this post supposes that you are sharing your own personal views about your own marriage, wife, and sexuality.

I respect your right to believe whatever you like (even if I believe you don't really gather the fact that most differentiate between fantasy and reality). But the second you start speaking for us all, which is exactly how your post is worded, you open yourself up to people calling you on it.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> No, I have never had that fantasy. When *I *truly respect and cherish someone _*I *_don't share them. *I *don't fanticise about it, _*I *_don't think about it, _*I *_don't plan to share them and _*I *_do not execute a plan to share them. It's just wrong. Sex is an intimate act that secures the bond between two people in love. To step outside of that just denegrates the whole sanctity of _*my *_loving, respectful committed relationship. Being a sl_t or a man-wh0re is not an acceptable part of _*my *_being married. Married means "having only unto you and foresaking all others."
> 
> If all _*I*_ want is sex, do not get married and hire a hooker.


*Bolded *and in _italics_ are corrections ive made. FTFY

edit; when you say the word 'you' it refers directly to the person you are directing your speech at, and conversely, when you say 'I' you refer to your self.


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## VBVA (Aug 7, 2012)

When I interpret the word 'share', I think of ownership.....I can share _with_ my wife, but I cannot share 'her'.


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## Early Grayce (Jan 19, 2012)

My dear ol' dad always told me "son, there are three things you _never_ lend, your wife, your gun and your car". I believe that is good advice.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Early Grayce said:


> My dear ol' dad always told me "son, there are three things you _never_ lend, your wife, your gun and your car". I believe that is good advice.


Don't you see which of those three is the odd one out?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Don't you see which of those three is the odd one out?


Which one Johnny?:scratchhead:


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Which one Johnny?:scratchhead:


U can own a gun and a car, so they are your to lend out.
U cannot own a woman, she is not your to lend out.
Very chauvinistic expression.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Lily_O said:


> U can own a gun and a car, so they are your to lend out.
> U cannot own a woman, she is not your to lend out.
> Very chauvinistic expression.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So then if a guy sees your wife and decides he wants to have sex with her for one night, and she decides that he looks hot and she wants to have sex with him too,
Can you as a husband tell her no way?
Would that make you chauvinistic because you don't own her and so you cannot tell her what not to do?


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> So then if a guy sees your wife and decides he wants to have sex with her for one night, and she decides that he looks hot and she wants to have sex with him too,
> Can you as a husband tell her no way?
> Would that make you chauvinistic because you don't own her and so you cannot tell her what not to do?


No, you can not tell her what to do or what not to do.
You can choose a woman that respects you and herself enough to not want to do that to you and your relationship.
You can tell her how you would feel if she did it, and how you would lose respect for her.
You can even divorce her if you like.
Notice how all of those options are only about controlling YOUR choices and not HER choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Lily_O said:


> No, you can not tell her what to do or what not to do.
> You can choose a woman that respects you and herself enough to not want to do that to you and your relationship.
> You can tell her how you would feel if she did it, and how you would lose respect for her.
> You can even divorce her if you like.
> ...


Well,
I was just playing the devil's advocate.
I think I have a wife that respects herself and our marriage enough. Hence the question does not arise.

But there are some guys who encourage their wives to have sex with other men, which if they choose that lifestyle, is their choice.

So, with respect to the gun, the car and the wife,
I would say ,
I can afford to loose my car.
I can afford to replace my gun if I loose it.
But I cannot replace my wife.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Well said, CarMan!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> Well said, CarMan!


:rofl::rofl:

Happy New Year Sandc!


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

And to you as well my friend!

Please note that I am not forcing you to enjoy the new year, I'm hoping you will enjoy it from the heart.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Well,
> I was just playing the devil's advocate.
> I think I have a wife that respects herself and our marriage enough. Hence the question does not arise.
> 
> ...


I had assumed that we were talking in the hypothetical collective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaybeItsMe? (Oct 26, 2011)

If my wife got in bed with me and another guy no doubt she would bang the other guy senseless and then tell me she's too tired. In fact I'd probably leave them too it and go out fishing for a few hours. May as well fill my time with something.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

MaybeItsMe? said:


> If my wife got in bed with me and another guy no doubt she would bang the other guy senseless and then tell me she's too tired. In fact I'd probably leave them too it and go out fishing for a few hours. May as well fill my time with something.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jesus! Worst. ménage. trois. Ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

How does this confuse things given that my wife is joint owner on my guns and cars?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

larry.gray said:


> How does this confuse things given that my wife is joint owner on my guns and cars?


Well if you're both armed it sounds like an equitable relationship indeed.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

> No, you can not tell her what to do or what not to do.


Rabbit Hole.........You cant tell me what I can or cannot say to anyone that I want to say it too. Especially if its my family and I'm trying to protect what is mine/ours. (This is not gender specific.)

sometimes through strong intervention you can prevent a disaster from happening before its to late. It doesn't mean your chauvinistic.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> How does this confuse things given that my wife is joint owner on my guns and cars?


Simply means in order to lend your gun , car, or wife, yoy need her permission.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Frankly, I think that my staunch defensiveness in not wanting to ever share my wife in any kind of a sexual venue is, in and of itself, the consumate act of love.

Conversely, I would beyond measure, be totally honored if she were to feel the very same way about me!


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

What seems to have been lost over the last several pages is the fact that this is a thread about private fantasies of "sharing", not contemplation of the particulars, and moral implications, of actually "sharing".

It's the difference between fantasizing about jumping off a building and flying, and actually jumping off a building with the hope of flying.


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## RayRay88 (Dec 5, 2012)

My hubby says he doesn't (which I think is a lie lol) but I have openly admitted fantasizing about sharing him with a female  though I know we will never do that. It's just a fun fantasy to have while doing it alone.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Lily_O said:


> No, you can not tell her what to do or what not to do.
> You can choose a woman that respects you and herself enough to not want to do that to you and your relationship.
> You can tell her how you would feel if she did it, and how you would lose respect for her.
> You can even divorce her if you like.
> ...


Oh yes I ****ing can.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I do fantasise from time to time about my wife with other men, still remember a yacht trip that we had with our mates and hell I just wanted to pull down her panties and let everyone see how beautiful she is down there and for her to have multiple hands loving her body.

However, after I blow, the fantasy makes me feel sick and disgusted and I go "oh hell no, I wouldn't want that" - not to mention my wife is disgusted with anything non-monogamous nowadays due to her past.
It's just hormones talking, hence it's restricted to just fantasies.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> I do fantasise from time to time about my wife with other men, still remember a yacht trip that we had with our mates and hell I just wanted to pull down her panties and let everyone see how beautiful she is down there and for her to have multiple hands loving her body.
> 
> However, after I blow, the fantasy makes me feel sick and disgusted and I go "oh hell no, I wouldn't want that" - not to mention my wife is disgusted with anything non-monogamous nowadays due to her past.
> It's just hormones talking, hence it's restricted to just fantasies.


Everything always sounds good while you're horny. After orgasms and back down to earth it never sounds like a great idea afterall.
Think about all those couples who thought having a threesome or swinging was for them until the morning after.....


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

aston said:


> Everything always sounds good while you're horny. After orgasms and back down to earth it never sounds like a great idea afterall.
> Think about all those couples who thought having a threesome or swinging was for them until the morning after.....


I can tell you for a fact that in my case the morning after was not pleasant. I wish I could go back in time and beat myself senseless with a 2x4.


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

I have certainly fantasized about sharing my husband with another person... a man.
Idk, the thought of a man giving him oral sex turns me on. But the fantasy is just that my husband is simply using the man to satisfy carnal lust, but isn't interested in him otherwise.
No fantasies about sharing him with another woman though.
Hmmm....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Honestly, in spite of the insecurities I have shared on other threads about my wife's past, I still DO have this fantasy on occasion. But, I don't think I could actually act on it. And she has no desire to, so the question will certainly never arise.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

aribabe said:


> I have certainly fantasized about sharing my husband with another person... a man.
> Idk, the thought of a man giving him oral sex turns me on. But the fantasy is just that my husband is simply using the man to satisfy carnal lust, but isn't interested in him otherwise.
> No fantasies about sharing him with another woman though.
> Hmmm....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


One of my wife's very best friends has this fantasy. She begged, and begged her man to fulfill it for her. He put up near endless resistance, but finally gave in and said fine, he'll do it once, and only once. They did, and she thought it was the hottest thing she'd ever seen.

Too bad she moved on a couple months later. Fell in love with another man (truthfully we don't believe she was ever really in love with the first one). But I do feel bad for him, because:

A. When he finds out, I'm sure he'll assume it's because of that one night.

B. He doesn't know yet. He's deployed and has no idea she's moved on with another man.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Jaquen, that absolutely sucks, and was a low blow by her. She knew he wasn't comfortable with it but begged him into it, only to leave right after. I'm sure at the least she knew her heart wasn't into the relationship at that point, or at least was having doubts.

Sounds like she just used him to fulfill a fantasy.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> Jaquen, that absolutely sucks, and was a low blow by her. She knew he wasn't comfortable with it but begged him into it, only to leave right after. I'm sure at the least she knew her heart wasn't into the relationship at that point, or at least was having doubts.
> 
> Sounds like she just used him to fulfill a fantasy.


Sounds like the ultimate sh!t test to me and he failed.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Jaquen, that absolutely sucks, and was a low blow by her. She knew he wasn't comfortable with it but begged him into it, only to leave right after. I'm sure at the least she knew her heart wasn't into the relationship at that point, or at least was having doubts.
> 
> *Sounds like she just used him to fulfill a fantasy.*


Terrible situation.

To her credit thought she didn't use him for the fantasy. They'd been together for a couple years, and she didn't mention the fantasy until pretty late in the game. It was one of those situations where she, though a very fit, attractive woman, hasn't been able to find real love. So she settled for comfort. Both had well paying jobs, apparently he was very good looking, and she thought this was the best it was going to get. They were talking marriage, even though she never really could say she was_ in love_ with him. It all looked good on paper, and she's one who likes appearances, and would normally put her emotions aside and commit to a situation that looks good.

The timing was just bad. She met somebody who made her feel that certain "something" we're all looking for, but is too much of a coward to tell the man. Doesn't want to bring his morale down while deployed. My thinking is it'll be worse coming back home, looking forward to starting this new life with somebody who is no longer even with you.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Soldiers have gotten "Dear John" letters for as long as there have been soldiers.

And yes, it does suck.


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

Wow... He was coerced by this girl into allowing another man to perform a homosexual act on him while she watches, and then she betrays his trust right after?!? Just... wow...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> Sounds like the ultimate sh!t test to me and he failed.


:iagree:
But that's a _terrible_ fail!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

coupdegrace said:


> Wow... He was coerced by this girl into allowing another man to perform a homosexual act on him while she watches, and then she betrays his trust right after?!? Just... wow...


Don't want to hijack the thread...
But I had this " friend " during my college days who was a very good looking " Adonis " type of guy. He was bisexual. We used to hang out with him because women's underwear suddenly started creeping down their legs when they saw him in a party or the club. He was a babes magnet , and he had mad game.
But this guy was deep into kinky sex. 
He had two " personal " girlfriends who were also into the same lifestyle. They were models and were very pretty .

So here's what he used to do. He would have these girls pick up a guy in the club and bring them home for threesomes and so forth.
When things got hot he would simply walk in and join the fun unannounced , and his girls would encouraged the guy to perform on him and vice versa.
He was a real character!
The girls were deadly too.
So yes, some women have that kind of power on some men.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Don't want to hijack the thread...
> But I had this " friend " during my college days who was a very good looking " Adonis " type of guy. He was bisexual. We used to hang out with him because women's underwear suddenly started creeping down their legs when they saw him in a party or the club. He was a babes magnet , and he had mad game.
> But this guy was deep into kinky sex.
> He had two " personal " girlfriends who were also into the same lifestyle. They were models and were very pretty .
> ...


I don't know how someone could be persuaded to do something like that.

Not that they should have to be in that situation to begin with though. There are some truly broken people in this world.


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Don't want to hijack the thread...
> But I had this " friend " during my college days who was a very good looking " Adonis " type of guy. He was bisexual. We used to hang out with him because women's underwear suddenly started creeping down their legs when they saw him in a party or the club. He was a babes magnet , and he had mad game.
> But this guy was deep into kinky sex.
> He had two " personal " girlfriends who were also into the same lifestyle. They were models and were very pretty .
> ...


Good Lord! This sounds like an STD waiting to happen.

Not to further hijack the thread, but I used to work in a Fast Food joint in my youth where I had several opportunities to have one-night stands and erotic encounters with horny, young hotties, but passed from fear of an STD.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

coupdegrace said:


> Good Lord! This sounds like an STD waiting to happen.
> 
> Not to further hijack the thread, but I used to work in a Fast Food joint in my youth where I had several opportunities to have one-night stands and erotic encounters with horny, young hotties, but passed from fear of an STD.



Quoted For Truth:

".._But I *had* this " friend " during my college days who was a very good looking " Adonis " type of guy. He *was* bisexual. .._"

You are correct.
he contracted HIV/ AIDS when the first waves hit down here in the late 90's.
He died.


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## sniper90019001 (Jan 20, 2013)

curlysue321 said:


> I don't know if hubby has had this fantasy. He did say he wished I was twins so he could have two of me at the same time.


Well then, he may have clone fetish (just like me) which is much different than sharing wife with someone else. See blueversusred.net which is a community of clone fetishists.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sniper90019001 said:


> Well then, he may have clone fetish (just like me) which is much different than sharing wife with someone else. See blueversusred.net which is a community of clone fetishists.


Well I visited the site and I never knew such a fetish existed
Quite interesting! [ Nice hentai art ]
I wonder if this became possible , what would be the downside?


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

Is she conservative or is she honourable, have integrity and loyal to her family?


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## mdill (Jan 18, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I heard a guy on playboy radio say that men have all sorts of sick fantasies That they would never tell their wife. So first question, is this true for you?
> 
> Well, i told my husband what i heard on the radio and told him to please tell me a secret fantasy he had and it didnt matter how f'ed up it was and i promised not to shame him or get angry.
> 
> ...


I'm relatively new to TAM. I hear to learn, so I mostly just read. I appreciate all the thoughtful perspective offered here. This is a long and interesting thread...thank Missy. For what it is worth, I have never had the fantasy of sharing my wife, but clearly many other guys have. After reading a lot on this site, I think I'm an outlier. I'm HD, but totally focused on my wife. She is relatively LD, but we both enjoy a active sex life as it reinforces our connection to each other. I know she steps it up for me. She gets hit on all the time and often doesn't realize it, which is so funny at times. It doesn't bother me at all as I know better than anyone on the planet. She is not wired for more that one guy at a time. So adding a 3rd party is of no interest. I want my wife constantly, but not interested in anyone else as it would have no emotion signifance to me and therefore of no value.


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## Raju Rio (Dec 24, 2015)

topic to be continued..


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