# Newly separated, she's seeing someone else



## devastated3343

I apologize if I don't do this correctly, I've never posted anything like this before. I'm in a pretty bad place, and I don't have any outlets for these feelings.

I'm a 33 yr old father of two, a daughter (6) and a son (3). My wife and I have been having problems in our marriage for a long time. She's an attachment parent, sleeps with our kids and still nurses the youngest (our daughter stopped nursing around 5), and the limitations on her time and energy, and the loss of the spark in our marriage built up to a point where when we fought she would say maybe we should just end it. We tried counselling and that helped for a while, but the longer between sessions the worse it got, and we were just maintaining. So after our last little spat she said we should end it, and I should move out. That was in the middle of February. So I moved out March 1st, we made a list of all of our debts and finances, and I got a little place of my own.

Honestly, I thought this separation might be a path to reconciliation. I thought being apart would remind her that she missed me and that we had built a history together and should try to make it work for our kids, and for all the years of love we shared. We dated for 4 years and then were married for 7. 

Last weekend she finally told me that we could talk if I needed to, but not about reconciling. It was over, there were too many big things between us, and we need to move on. And that hurt, but not as much as finding out that she had already met someone. When we separated I asked her if she was going to see other men, and she flatly said no, not interested at all, don't want that for the kids. 

When I was watching youtube videos on her computer with my son I accidentally/on purpose saw her email, and I saw all the emails from this new guy, and how she was talking to him. All alive with passion and romance, the infatuation of a new relationship, the way she used to talk to me. I asked her again after that if there was someone else and she completely denied it.

And last night, while my kids were asleep, she had him over and they shared a bottle of wine and they slept together. She still uses the email address we used as a couple and I saw everything.

We had agreed to go to a mediator to resolve our divorce and manage a settlement, we hadn't really formalized anything about custody, thinking that we'd work together to make sure the kids were happy and not traumatized. 

My problems are: 
I was devastated before I knew about the other man, and now I'm at the end of my rope. I've confided in friends but I can't seem to stop the pain. It hurts so much. How can I make the pain stop?

How do I deal with her, knowing what I know and knowing she's lying to me? I know she did it to spare my feelings but it still feels like a betrayal, and the situation she's putting the kids in is potentially volatile. My kids are amazing, and I can't live with anything that's going to traumatize them.

Should I talk to the mediator about what's happening? Is there some recourse?

I go between being dead inside to hurting so much I'm crying while I drive. I really thought she loved me. I thought we had something good, in spite of the problems. I thought we'd always be a family. I have loved her face every day since the day I met her. And if she could do this to me, what am I worth?

I'm seeing a therapist on Friday, I hope they can help. I don't know how to carry this. I'm not strong enough for this.


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## lamaga

Oh, how horrible.

Well, mediated divorces are good, but only if the mediator has full info -- oh yes, tell the mediator that you have been betrayed and exactly how and why, and that you are mad as hell. You deserve to be.

This is so awful for you. Please do keep posting and let us know how it goes.


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## devastated3343

The only reason I ask about telling the mediator is that as I understand it he is technically both of our lawyer, and doesn't enjoy confidentiality if anything ever went to court. I don't want this to go to court, I don't know what I want.

I don't want this happening in the house while the kids are asleep. But it's not much better if she's getting a babysitter and they slip out to a hotel. 

I want to close my eyes and wake up a year ago in time to save my marriage, or a year from now when it doesn't hurt.


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## lamaga

Well, no, he is not both of your lawyer. He is the person in charge of resolving a mutually agreeable solution, and as such, he needs to know what your boundaries are.

And actually, it is better for your kids if she has a babysitter and goes to a hotel. It's still horrible for you, but better for the kids. You have to learn to separate those two feelings.

And yes, wanting to wake up with it all better? we all went thru that. I'm so sorry. It will get better, but it won't get better soon. I'm so very sorry.


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## tacoma

You can do a couple of things here but first you`re going to have to acknowledge that she was most likely already carrying on with this new guy before your separation.
It was most likely the driving motivator to get you out of the house.

If you really want to stick your neck out to try and save this you could move back home...it is your marital home.

From there you can start making her affair very difficult and public.
This maye affect her in a positive manner for your marriage or she may already be gone and it won`t do you any good but it`s the only path towards reconciliation if that`s the path you want.

If it`s not the path you want I`d simply get a lawyer and serve her papers.
A mediator only works when a split is amicable and honest.
Your being lied to about everything.

Stop being nice and either get home and expose her affair or get a lawyer and divorce her.


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## bryanp

I am very sorry for you. You need to get tested for STD's. I am guessing that she was probably using the prolonged breast feeding of the children to keep you away from her intimately. Do you think this is only the first time she cheated on you? It is always a good idea to get paternity tests done as well. Good luck.


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## crossbar

Dude, that is so low. I know that you want to use a mediator to handle things but I agree with everyone else. Get a DNA test done on the kids. Our Ex want US out of the house so that they can carry on there affairs without interference from you. 

I would talk to a lawyer. If you live in an "at fault" state, then her relationship with this OM will hurt her in a divorce. Find out what you can about this OM and blow his world up! Is he married? Does he have a girlfriend? 

Let me guess! All the fights you were having; the majority were started by her. It wouldn't surprise me. If she was having an affair, she would have started fights with you to convince herself that you are a terrible person and all you do is fight (nevermind that they were started by her) so it's okay to sleep with this OM because you deserve it. She was trying to not feel guilty about what she was doing because you are (apparently) a jerk.


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## OldWolf57

the 1st thing you need to do is grow a pair. you have her emotions and she have yours. stop worrying about her. you need to grow stronger for YOU. this person has grown to detest your beta personality, and frankly, I'm worried about you. So I'll give you this. Go read the 180 and "No More Mr. Nice Guy".If you have a chance to win her back, you need to remake you. that means PURE ALPHA male cold as the damn south pole, Even if this don't work, it will make you a stronger man. Personally, I would NEVER FIGHT FOR SOMEONE WHO DISSED ME. Our self-respect and self image is truly all we have. And believe me, you can do it. If not for you, then for your kids. No matter what happen between you 2, you want your kids to always look up to an respect you. No child once they reach the age of some true understanding, will respect a parent who lose themself because of emotions. God Bless You Man. Take care of yourself, and stop letting this woman control you.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Devastated, I am so sorry that you are here. I can relate to the crying while driving because for two months after dday I cried everyday on the way home. This is how I found out that tears don't just drip down, they squirt horizontally (I had to clean my glasses when I finally got home.)

As others have pointed out, she was most likely involved with the OM while you were together. You need to move back into your home -- if anyone needs to leave, it should be her. She's the one that's destroying your family. She has some nerve to be having sleepovers already and the ink hasn't even been written on your divorce papers.

Like you, my wife was everything to me. I can still remember vividly telling her, with tears streaming down my face, that I worshiped her and asking why she did this terrible thing to me. Well, it's been almost six months and everyday gets better. Some more than others. I also learned that gods and goddesses are the only entities that deserve our worship.

Stay strong and come back often for support. This place got me through some really dark days.


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## Shaggy

What you've found out is that your wife has completely lied and misled you so that she could get you to mve out so she could more easily carry on her affair.

My advice, inform her your nice cosy agreement is off.

You are moving back into your home. There will be no more cheating in that house with men with your kids around.

If she wants to cheat, she moves out, the kids stay home, and she pays for her lifestyle herself.

You've played fair, but now you are seeing he actual reasons for getting you gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## devastated3343

I appreciate all the responses. I'll try to address some of these things in order. 

The new guy, he's someone who she knew 15 years ago, someone she hasn't been in contact with in years. Has she carried a torch for this guy all that time? Is she just grabbing the first friendly face that gives her the tingles? I can't say. But I can say that my ex-wife is not James Bond. It might sound ridiculous to say that I can look at her face and tell when she's lying, but I knew right away when she did lie to me. Also, she doesn't work and the kids are home for the most part, and she never went out. She just didn't have time. If there were hidden email accounts I'd know. 

And finally, the chain of emails was pretty clear. They met for lunch a month after I left, she emailed him a few weeks later to see if he was involved with anyone and if he'd like to meet for a drink, and then their little tryst last night. 3rd date? Turns out my wife is a bit ****ty. So unless they laid an elaborate trail of false breadcrumbs in a place she wouldn't have thought I'd be looking, or it really happened this way. 

Hindsight being what it is, if there was a time when she was being shifty and making excuses to get out, I'd remember. 

The kids are mine. If you saw a picture of the three of us there'd be no doubt. They're little versions of me, and even she wouldn't do that. 

At the risk of sounding even more pathetic, she's a genuinely nice person. Warm, kind, very maternal and soft. But once she decided she was done with me she hardened herself against me, turned to ice, and gave herself permission to do whatever she wants. 

So the kids are without question mine. And the affair has started since I left, but not long since, no STDs. I feel I'm on solid ground there. 

Crossbar asked about the nature of our fights. We fought sometimes about money, sometimes about her family, sometimes about her mom, but mostly she wouldn't really have the interest in spending time with me. She's battled some pretty crippling depression for longer than we were together. She went to bed early at night, didn't want to go out much, and I would go from supportive and flirty, to grumpy and passive-aggressive, to arguing. And as weeks turned into a month or two with no sex, no intimacy, no real interest I'd sort of shut down and sulk. She'd say she wouldn't feel attracted to me when I'm grumpy, and I'd say I'm grumpy because I wasn't getting any attention. 

Was she pushing me away because she was feeling like our marriage had run its course? Probably. Ignore me until there was a fight and then not feel guilty about not being involved in our relationship because I'm a jerk? Probably. Even if she didn't know she was doing it, probably. We don't live in an at fault state, and we have nothing anyway. Our assets roughly equal our debts, after she buys me out of the house. There won't be any money to divide. 

OldWolf, I hear what you're saying. I desperately want to grow a pair. And talking it out helps. The more I talk to my friends the more I see the problems we had in our marriage. 

I know now there won't be a reconciliation. I couldn't go back, and she clearly doesn't want that. I'm scared of a future without her. When I was in pain, when I needed help, I would turn to her. She was my best friend. I haven't been on my own in a really long time. I don't know how I'll convince some new person to be interested in me, and trust them. They say it will pass, they say it'll get better. 

I'll read the articles, I'll try what they say. I need to move forward. My guts hurt all the time, and it's hard to see her. 

Anyway, the kids are here now and they always make me feel great. I'll keep checking in. Thanks everyone.


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## Hope1964

Yes, please keep checking in. My heart goes out to you!

And please try to look at this objectively. Impossible, I know. But you need some perspective. Don't blindly believe she couldn't have done this before, or that she only started this up after you moved out. Know that you WILL be fine without her - better, even.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

devastated3343 said:


> I appreciate all the responses. I'll try to address some of these things in order.
> 
> The new guy, he's someone who she knew 15 years ago, someone she hasn't been in contact with in years. Has she carried a torch for this guy all that time? Is she just grabbing the first friendly face that gives her the tingles? I can't say. *But I can say that my ex-wife is not James Bond*. It might sound ridiculous to say that I can look at her face and tell when she's lying, but I knew right away when she did lie to me. Also, she doesn't work and the kids are home for the most part, and she never went out. She just didn't have time. If there were hidden email accounts I'd know.
> 
> And finally, the chain of emails was pretty clear. They met for lunch a month after I left, she emailed him a few weeks later to see if he was involved with anyone and if he'd like to meet for a drink, and then their little tryst last night. 3rd date? Turns out my wife is a bit ****ty. So unless they laid an elaborate trail of false breadcrumbs in a place she wouldn't have thought I'd be looking, or it really happened this way.
> 
> Hindsight being what it is, if there was a time when she was being shifty and making excuses to get out, I'd remember.
> 
> The kids are mine. If you saw a picture of the three of us there'd be no doubt. They're little versions of me, and even she wouldn't do that.
> 
> *At the risk of sounding even more pathetic, she's a genuinely nice person. Warm, kind, very maternal and soft. *But once she decided she was done with me she hardened herself against me, turned to ice, and gave herself permission to do whatever she wants.
> 
> So the kids are without question mine. And the affair has started since I left, but not long since, no STDs. I feel I'm on solid ground there.
> 
> Crossbar asked about the nature of our fights. We fought sometimes about money, sometimes about her family, sometimes about her mom, but mostly she wouldn't really have the interest in spending time with me. She's battled some pretty crippling depression for longer than we were together. She went to bed early at night, didn't want to go out much, and I would go from supportive and flirty, to grumpy and passive-aggressive, to arguing. And as weeks turned into a month or two with no sex, no intimacy, no real interest I'd sort of shut down and sulk. She'd say she wouldn't feel attracted to me when I'm grumpy, and I'd say I'm grumpy because I wasn't getting any attention.
> 
> Was she pushing me away because she was feeling like our marriage had run its course? Probably. Ignore me until there was a fight and then not feel guilty about not being involved in our relationship because I'm a jerk? Probably. Even if she didn't know she was doing it, probably. We don't live in an at fault state, and we have nothing anyway. Our assets roughly equal our debts, after she buys me out of the house. There won't be any money to divide.
> 
> OldWolf, I hear what you're saying. I desperately want to grow a pair. And talking it out helps. The more I talk to my friends the more I see the problems we had in our marriage.
> 
> I know now there won't be a reconciliation. I couldn't go back, and she clearly doesn't want that. I'm scared of a future without her. When I was in pain, when I needed help, I would turn to her. She was my best friend. I haven't been on my own in a really long time. I don't know how I'll convince some new person to be interested in me, and trust them. They say it will pass, they say it'll get better.
> 
> I'll read the articles, I'll try what they say. I need to move forward. My guts hurt all the time, and it's hard to see her.
> 
> Anyway, the kids are here now and they always make me feel great. I'll keep checking in. Thanks everyone.


She may not be the James Bond type but he very well might be.

How nice of a person is she for breaking up your family and then moving on so quickly with another man.

I think you're in a fog. You say that you know her but tell me, did you see any of this coming?


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## arbitrator

Dev: My heart, along with everyone else's here at TAM richly goes out to you. You don't deserve this and neither do your kids. To echo the prevailing sentiment here, it is time for you to fastly unleash the 180, keep going to IC, and look after the welfare of those kids.

The next stop you should make is to your lawyer's office, because you need to know what your rights are. And whatever you do, go after custody of your kids. She's totally unfit to be their custodial parent much less a non-custodial one. And I totally feel that you would be a much better parent on your worst day than she would ever be on her absolute best one.

Keep us posted. And I'll remain in prayer for you and the kids.
Hang in there, brother!


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## devastated3343

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> She may not be the James Bond type but he very well might be.


Obviously I can't say with certainty that she's never had an affair, but I can only tell you I'm as certain as I can be. There just wasn't an opportunity. She never left the house, and I run all the computers in the house. I bought her the first smartphone she's had 6 months ago. And I've been on it to put music on. I understand the natural reaction to be suspicious, with all the experience on this board and all the stories you've heard, but you'll have to trust me that this is the first.

And for her I'm sure she doesn't think she's having an affair. She thinks we're over, she's been more ready for it to be over as she's the one who wanted it to end. She thinks she's just moving on and has met a nice man. And she send him an email saying 'hope I'm not too forward, but are you seeing anyone - romantically?' etc. 

But they had a great first date and he walked her home and kissed her and then she wanted to see him again but couldn't get a babysitter on a weeknight so she put the kids to bed, asked him to bring over a bottle of wine, and told him she can't wait to see him, touch him, kiss him, and I died a little inside.

And then today he wrote that he overslept because of the sex, and she wrote back that it was amazing, and her body really responded to him. Etc.

Don't like reliving it all, but can't help it. If this was going on before, I'd know. I might be pathetic, I might be a doormat, I was obviously much more into her than she was into me, but I'm not blind or a fool. If it was happening, I'd have known. Just like I found out about this. She still hasn't admitted to seeing anyone. 



Count of Monte Cristo said:


> How nice of a person is she for breaking up your family and then moving on so quickly with another man.


How can I explain it? All the things I loved about her are real. She is a nice person, and she is kind to people, and all the neighbourhood kids play at our house (her house) after school, and when someone needs to leave their kids while they run out, they ask her. 

But once she decided we were over I became the enemy. She didn't want to be talk into resolving our problems again. She didn't want my emotional baggage. She wanted to cut the ties, and she did it sharply. And then she ran to another guy.

I know how it sounds, but otherwise kind people I think have the capacity to be very cruel and unfeeling and passive-aggressive. And that's how it is now. Maybe this guy will be an ******* and they'll break it off. Maybe he'll get tired of her once the initial infatuation wears off. Who knows? I guess it doesn't matter to me anyway. 



Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I think you're in a fog. You say that you know her but tell me, did you see any of this coming?


I'm not in a fog, I'm in pain. I'm not deluding myself, I really do know her. 

I really thought she felt enough for me that we would slowly, respectfully, untangle our lives and get the kids into new routines. They're taking all of this ok for now, and I thought we'd just take our time and get to a good place all around, and then start the next part of our lives. But she jumped on the first guy she found and I'm a wreck. I saw the split coming, even thought I fought it. The quick turn-around? That blew me away. I think I could have gotten through the divorce, learned to live my life and enjoy my new freedom, if she just could have let some time pass.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Sounds like you're giving up and letting her have her way. You say that she became cold, well so did my ex. And the reason that she became cold is because she was in the throes of an affair.

How does someone go from being so tender and loving to being an ice princess? From my experience, and so many other posters on this site, it is usually because you have been replaced by the affair partner. She might have been having an EA with this guy and it went PA after you moved out. I don't know. All I know is that you shouldn't go down without a fight.

Don't you think your family is worth it?


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## devastated3343

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Sounds like you're giving up and letting her have her way. You say that she became cold, well so did my ex. And the reason that she became cold is because she was in the throes of an affair.
> 
> How does someone go from being so tender and loving to being an ice princess? From my experience, and so many other posters on this site, it is usually because you have been replaced by the affair partner. She might have been having an EA with this guy and it went PA after you moved out. I don't know. All I know is that you shouldn't go down without a fight.
> 
> Don't you think your family is worth it?


I don't know how to respond to that. Do I want her back, after she did all this ****? Would I ever trust her again? Could I ever be happy? Wouldn't this all happen again the next time we had a fight? Would I ever feel like she truly loved and respected me after so easily throwing me away? 

Before this week we could have worked it out. I know now she didn't want to, but we could have. Now? She's moved on, and now it's about the kids. It cuts me like a knife though, the betrayal, the lie, and how easy I was to replace with someone at least superficially better than me. I wish I could undo the mistakes and have us be together and happy, but I can't ever see that happening. As for her getting her way, I hate that she gets to be happy while I'm miserable, and that she gets away with introducing this element into my kids' lives, but there's only so much I can do, right? I'll tell the mediator, and talk to the therapist, and if I need my own lawyer I'll get one. Hopefully a free one.

Where can I find some of the articles mentioned? The 180 and No More Mr. Nice Guy?

I've tried to search but couldn't find them.


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## WhyinSC

Having been through this myself, one point...

You can't make someone treat you well or love you. 
If they don't they don't and you wouldn't want someone you "earned" back in the long run. You'll just be waiting for the hammer to drop some day in the future.

Learn from the experience. Make sure your kids are taken care of and move on. Don't give her the satisfaction of being "all mad" about her new sex partner. Just kill your previous "agreement" and protect yourself. If she asks why you're now being cold and selfish simply say, You know why. Never say a word more. She's a grown woman who can do whatever she likes. You do the same. Hurts to hear I know but in the long run you'll thank me after some super hottie is all WANTING to be with you and you're living the dream...

Happened to me. Just sayin. And thats after 16 years of marriage, 1 year of changing - cause I was the "bad guy" right. Finally gave up and started a new life.

I love it. And finally for the first time in a long time...I love me.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559
http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1302875291/last-1302891381/The+180


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## devastated3343

Thanks WhyinSC. I appreciate the inspiration. 

I want what you've got, even if it seems impossible. But I can say that I feel better now than I did earlier today. It'll be hard again the next time she's planning to see him. Probably the next time I have the kids overnight, it'll be more daggers. But I'll keep coming back here, and lord help me I hope it gets better one day. 

Going for a jog, burn off some tension.


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## OldWolf57

You know what ?? I like your last post. you are finally starting to sound a lil angry at her treatment. Screw the waiting and suffering now. tell her you know all, especially the sex with the kids in the house. Tell her you never thought she could do something so ****ty. That way you are showing her you have taken her off her pedestal. And let me share this. " As long as you ae crying over her, she has control over you". But even now seeing what type she really is you still try to defend her. PPL CHANGE !! Hasn't she ?? Ask her how many men will be coming thru her bedroom dissrespecting your kids. How many uncle will they have had by the time they are in HS. You say you don't think you would take her back now. Then give her a## both barrels, and tell her she is just like all the other cheating sk**ks with a hot c**t going into middle age. Tell her you wish you never met and married her knowing what you know now. You don't have to mean it, but it will take her down a peg even if she don't show it. And that will bring her some pain. Also, now is not the time to be worrying about women in the future. You have to get thru this now. You don't want to go into a Relationship until you are a different person from who you are now. And when you tell her these things, do it coldly, showing nothing. So pull up yourr bootscraps an walk like a man. You can do it Bro. "What don't kill us makes us stronger". Ask the Vets here, you will come out the other side a better man. A stronger man.


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## DaKarmaTrain!

You need to go 'scorched earth' on her, brother.

It is one way I dealt with the pain...keep the anger going as long as possible.

You will heal from this.


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## WhyinSC

No problem. And kill the email. Don't torture yourself. You know she is sleeping with someone else there is no point for further monitoring. It will just kill you. It's over if you can be man enough to say its over. Trust me when I say there are so many great women out there...few crazies too but hell they can make for a great story later!

For the record I cried like a biyach for 10 months straight and tried 3-4 medications until I finally got the strength to give up on it and try life out again. Once I saw what was out there...around month 12-13 it's been no looking back.

It will happen for you too once you get further down through the process. Promise.


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## courseplotter

OK... outside of this issue with the relationship she is having during your separation, do you support the issue of attachment parenting? I'm not asking whether you convinced yourself it's ok or if your wife is well-intentioned. I'm asking if you have been and are now still ok with it.


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## devastated3343

courseplotter said:


> OK... outside of this issue with the relationship she is having during your separation, do you support the issue of attachment parenting? I'm not asking whether you convinced yourself it's ok or if your wife is well-intentioned. I'm asking if you have been and are now still ok with it.


I agreed to attachment parenting, and we're both really devoted to our kids (for now I'll describe our parenting without the context of what's happened to our relationship). I started to get uncomfortable as my daughter turned 4 and 5, thinking that she could easily be weaned and she was just stubbornly holding on to something that was nice for her. When my son came home from the hospital it was hard to balance the needs of both kids, but my spouse did and they took the longer path.

I can say that my kids seem to be very confident, very social, with very nice dispositions and are very affectionate to each other, to us, to their friends. They've been given the chance to take each stage in their life at their own pace, never had to go to daycare, weren't pushed into toilet training before they wanted to. I don't know if they would or wouldn't be the same great kids if we had pushed them a little bit, made them face challenges earlier, etc.

I think it's a choice couples have to make for themselves. But if you're attachment parenting it's critical that you make an extra effort with each other. Attachment parenting is a long, hard commitment. It's definitely the harder choice. And it takes a strong and healthy couple to make the sacrifices of time, effort and intimacy that you have to do.

I'm fine with attachment parenting, it's great for the kids. But the kids took up 100% of my wife's time and energy and interest, and she had little or none left for me.

A good example of the type of person my wife is (or was) came from our first MC session. The MC drew on a white board:
A B C and D, all spaced out.

A = You
B = Your spouse
C = Your children
D = Family and everyone else

She drew a circle around A, you have to take care of yourself first, to be the best person you can be.

She drew a circle around A and B, you have to take care of your spouse, because when you're happy and in love you can give that to your kids.

She drew a circle around A, B and C, then you take care of your kids, as happy, healthy, strong adults.

And D was outside the circle, for everyone else.

And my wife smiled and said that was amazing, and I looked at her for a second and I knew - you don't believe a ****ing word of that. And I asked her about it weeks later when the euphoria of MC had kind of waned and tried to remind her to take care of herself and make some time for us. And she said 'that's just not what I believe'.

In her world you just had to put C on the board, and circle it. Nothing else mattered.


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## Machiavelli

I commend you on your decisive decision to divorce. See an attorney, though, don't be passive and let it happen. Take charge.

Now that this relationship has reached its terminus, I highly recommend that you check out this blog and buy the book. As you read, you will see what went wrong and how your wife developed contempt and loathing for you. The knowledge will help you in your future relationships.


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## iheartlife

Devastated, our family has also followed some elements of attachment parenting (including late weaning, our kids were each 2 when they stopped). I think it's like most other human philosophies, in general it's fairly neutral but when taken to a great extreme, even a neutral or good thing can become very harmful.

I am sorry that your wife doesn't buy into the most important tenant of attachment parenting, which is that the greatest gift you can give your children is a loving, happy marriage. All the breastfeeding in the world cannot make up for that.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Doctor Sears does not advocate sleeping with someone who is not your spouse while you are still married. But this just shows you how affairs work--the cheater can rationalize ANYTHING. If you read enough stories, that part will really blow your mind.

I thought of another issue, which is, I assume the kids generally sleep in the same bed with her. How is that going to work out with the OM? That seems like bad news for a long list of reasons. I hope I'm not bringing up a sore point.


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## bandit.45

Divorce her and move on. Move through the hurt and see to yourself. 

Her new relationship will not last. She has statistical fact against her. She's a liar and a cheat and does not deserve you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## devastated3343

iheartlife said:


> I thought of another issue, which is, I assume the kids generally sleep in the same bed with her. How is that going to work out with the OM? That seems like bad news for a long list of reasons. I hope I'm not bringing up a sore point.


iheartlife, you're not bringing up a sore point, I feel better today than yesterday and talking all this out helps. I'm not the person I want to be, but I also wasn't going to get there alone. I'm pouring over these forums and finding out all the ways I'm thinking and acting wrong. 

About your point, for us the kids slept in their own bed and WW (I'm trying to pick up on the lingo) would just nurse them to sleep, but then be so tired she'd fall asleep too. She'd wake up in the night to pee or something, and I'd usually hear her and come up and give her a hug and a kiss, and then she'd go back to the kid's room and fall asleep again. She didn't want to have to wake up and walk down the hall when they woke, and our youngest still wakes 2-3 times a night, and we didn't want them in bed with us (I foolishly believed that after a time she'd come back to bed) so she just slept there. 

Now that OM is in the picture she'll have our youngest skip his nap so he's good and tired, put the kids to bed, nurse our youngest to sleep, and slip out of his bed and into hers for a night of fun and ****ing. 



iheartlife said:


> Also, I'm pretty sure that Doctor Sears does not advocate sleeping with someone who is not your spouse while you are still married. But this just shows you how affairs work--the cheater can rationalize ANYTHING. If you read enough stories, that part will really blow your mind.


That part still kills me. I'm a good person, and I always loved her. We had our fights, we had our problems, I've argued in ways I regret, but I always loved her honestly and completely, always treated her with respect, never drank or smoked or took off at night to hang out with friends or worked late and stopped at the bar. I tried to be a good person, a good father and a good husband. I was also clingy, and pathetic and lacked self-respect. I wasn't a person, I was just an extension of her personality. And she finally realized she didn't need that any more and that whatever we had for each other wasn't _love_.


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## Entropy3000

> So after our last little spat she said we should end it, and I should move out. That was in the middle of February. So I moved out March 1st, we made a list of all of our debts and finances, and I got a little place of my own.
> 
> Honestly, I thought this separation might be a path to reconciliation. I thought being apart would remind her that she missed me and that we had built a history together and should try to make it work for our kids, and for all the years of love we shared. We dated for 4 years and then were married for 7.


Sigh. :scratchhead:

This was not a good idea my friend. I know it is too late now to undo this but this was not the way to go about this at all if you wanted to eventually reconsile with her. You just isolated yourself so she could become single and so that you could not work on the marriage any longer.

So it is time to move on. Stop being so nice about this. She has moved on.


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## BigLiam

Not that it matters, but I bet you my 401k that at some point you are going to discover that your wife was, in some fashion, already involved with this guy. They may have never met in 15 years, and I know she had little time or means to contact. But, you were set up and this liason was already planned out long before your wife pulled the rug out from under you. Wait and keep your mind open and you will see this is true, someday.
Anyway, the sleeping with the kids is very common among the personality disordered. I mean very common. Cheating and promiscuity are, as well(third date, kids in the house=promiscuous).
So, maybe you should do a little research on BPD ,HPD, NPD.
Your wife is not who you think she is. She planned this, dumped you, and moved on to a physical relationship in no time.

And, why on earht did you move out and leave your kids behind?


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## devastated3343

One question still remains. I'm listening to all the advice here, and I can't thank you all enough for taking an interest. I continue to refresh the screen to see what else someone might contribute.

I'll be sure to ask the therapist on Friday, and the mediator when he calls me back, but what can I do about WAW and OM ****ing while the kids are home? I can't stop her from having an affair, especially since she almost certainly thinks it's not an affair. As I've said, I'm sure she thinks that we're separated and she can do what she wants. She still feels like she has to lie about it, and hide it, and keep it private, and sneak around when I'm not there or when the kids are asleep. But to her it's just discretion, not an affair. 

But I *don't* want it going on while my kids are in the house. It's only so long before they make some noise, and my daughter gets out of bed and wanders down the hall and sees my wife and her ginger mother****er boyfriend in the bedroom that used to be her parents. I can't be ok with that. I can't stop her from doing these things, but I don't want it around my kids. But how can I enforce it?

I know OldWolf wants me to rain fire and brimstone, and if it comes to that I will, but we have kids and I don't want a war. I'll learn to like myself and grow through this (I hope... I've started to believe this today, for the first time) and if I'm alone for a long time, **** it. I plan to be busy.


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## BigLiam

Courts will enforce conditions where the parents are not allowed to have opposite sex "friends" sleep over. This is quite common. Insist on it in the agreement. Document the liasons, as well, as it may have a bearing on custody.


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## keko

Are you going to move back into the house?

Exposing the affair is another option.


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## Shaggy

This is why you need a lawyer. It is often possible to put a claus in agreements about no OM or GF around the kids. Especially no over nights.

Are you contributing $$ toward the house in mortgage or rent? If do all to your lawyer because you might be to not allow him in the house at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## devastated3343

BigLiam said:


> Not that it matters, but I bet you my 401k that at some point you are going to discover that your wife was, in some fashion, already involved with this guy. They may have never met in 15 years, and I know she had little time or means to contact. But, you were set up and this liason was already planned out long before your wife pulled the rug out from under you. Wait and keep your mind open and you will see this is true, someday.


I could show you the emails that they sent back and forth. If you read them the timeline would make sense. It's fast and ****ty, but it's also very high-school. I'm not going to argue about it. If she's been carrying a torch for this guy all this time, and meeting for lunch with their old friend every few years while she wondered what he'd be like, who knows. 

Also, I think OM's a widower, I think he lost his wife in the past few years. He has a teenage daughter and from what I remember it hits them both pretty hard around the holidays. 

The replies are coming fast now. 

Keko, no, I'm not moving back in. I'm gone, whether that was the right decision or not. As far as I knew this was an amicable split and we were going to work to support the kids together. I couldn't afford to live in the house (she makes more with her long-term disability coverage than I do working full time) without her income anyway. I didn't know she was going to jump on some strange ****. 

When I asked the mediator he said it shouldn't have any impact on our separation agreement or custody, and neither of us thought there would be some court battle. 

Lastly, I'm great with the kids and I love them to death, but she's a stay at home mom that sleeps in their beds with them. They're used to me going to work and coming home and only seeing me a bit at a time. They would have been devastated if she packed her things and left. Maybe she deserves that, but the kids don't. They love their Mom, and they need her. There are still lots of tears when she drops them off here and leaves. They get over it, but they still struggle with it.


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## EleGirl

devastated3343 said:


> One question still remains. I'm listening to all the advice here, and I can't thank you all enough for taking an interest. I continue to refresh the screen to see what else someone might contribute.
> 
> I'll be sure to ask the therapist on Friday, and the mediator when he calls me back, but what can I do about WAW and OM ****ing while the kids are home? I can't stop her from having an affair, especially since she almost certainly thinks it's not an affair. As I've said, I'm sure she thinks that we're separated and she can do what she wants. She still feels like she has to lie about it, and hide it, and keep it private, and sneak around when I'm not there or when the kids are asleep. But to her it's just discretion, not an affair.
> 
> But I *don't* want it going on while my kids are in the house. It's only so long before they make some noise, and my daughter gets out of bed and wanders down the hall and sees my wife and her ginger mother****er boyfriend in the bedroom that used to be her parents. I can't be ok with that. I can't stop her from doing these things, but I don't want it around my kids. But how can I enforce it?
> 
> I know OldWolf wants me to rain fire and brimstone, and if it comes to that I will, but we have kids and I don't want a war. I'll learn to like myself and grow through this (I hope... I've started to believe this today, for the first time) and if I'm alone for a long time, **** it. I plan to be busy.


You really need to ask an attorney about what can be done about her having men stay for sleep overs. In most states you can get a stipuation that she is not allowed to do this.

A therapist will most likely not tell you your legal rights in this.

I think you would greatly benefit from the book 'Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley.


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## keko

Try to get some hard evidence and expose her affair to everyone. Make it as inconvinient as possible.


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## jh52

keko said:


> Try to get some hard evidence and expose her affair to everyone. Make it as inconvinient as possible.


He has the evidence.


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## devastated3343

jh52 said:


> He has the evidence.


Yeah, that's the problem. I have her emails, I know what's happening. But if I tell her I know everything and that I've seen her emails, she'll stop using that email and I won't know if she's complying. Bit of a catch-22. If she retreats underground my intel is cut off.

Hopefully the mediator will have some advice.


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## EleGirl

D, 

One thing you might want to do is to get copies (printed or electronic copies) of the emails and any other evidence you have about the affair and OM sleeping over. Just tuck them away but have them. You do not have any idea how this will go. 

I've seen divorces start out the way yours is, at a mediator and ending in bitter court battles. Hopefully this will never happen and you won't need the evidence. But ya never know.

I've also seen marriages get back together and couples being many times happier together after this. That's why i'm suggesting the 'surviving an affair' book.

If you want your marriage to recover, you'd do best to drag the divorce out to give you time to work on things.


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## keko

Place some hidden cameras in the house.


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## EleGirl

keko said:


> Place some hidden cameras in the house.


Know the laws in your state before doing this.


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## BigLiam

This will sound very preumptuous. But, I am old and have dealt in this real of infidelity for over 19 years: IMO, you do not know who your wife really is or what she is capable of.


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## keko

EleGirl said:


> Know the laws in your state before doing this.


Its his house too as long as he is married.


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## BigLiam

i'D CONSULT WITH A FATHER'S RIGHTS ATTORNEY. i THINK YOU ARE GOING TO GET STEAMROLLED HERE RE CUSTODY.


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## keko

Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum • View topic - THE LIST (Print It)


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## Shaggy

You don't need to reveal any sources btw.

Just ask , how was the man she had over the other night? you heard it from somewhere.


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## EleGirl

keko said:


> Its his house too as long as he is married.


He is a co-owner of the house. But he voluntarily left the family home, established his own resident, and is in mediation for divorce. He and his wife are clearly separated. He might very well not have a right to enter the house now that they are in mediation. 

Spy cameras are hidden cameras on private property with the expressed use of recording individuals without their knowledge. Some states require that those being video/audio recorded give their consent while others do not. There are also laws regarding "Invasion of Privacy," which deals with the concept of expected privacy. This idea of “expected privacy” includes areas such as bathrooms, locker rooms, changing and dressing rooms, bedrooms, and other areas where a person may expect a certain level of personal privacy.

Knowing the laws that govern video and audio recording is always a good idea before doing it. Each state has its own laws. And then there are federal laws.


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## OldWolf57

Hey I don't want fire an brimstone i just want you to express your complete digust of her sexing with the kids there. I want you to TELL her she really had you and others fooled, that she was someone with morals and values. Dev she may be digusted with you, but she still wants to look good in your eyes. Thats why telling her you have lost ALL RESPECT for her, will eat her when she is alone. I'm not for you starting a war, but you as the BS and a man need this. She wouldn't find a way to take care of your needs, but on the 3rd time with him, she made it happen. Look back over your posts, it's eating you. Share the pain Bro. She earned it. Now,, you need your own lawyer, they have payment plans. Also, you answered a ? I had about her buying you out of the house being a sthm. And Bro, I'm feeling much better about your head now, so walk TALL man, let her see what she threw away was a real man.


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## keko

I don't think she would honestly care much of what he says. She's still in the affair fog.

On the other hand exposing her and putting her under the spotlight is more effective. If "revenge" is going to make him feel better, then invest some more time to gather pics/videos and send them out anonymously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhyinSC

It would be cool if people would focus on helping him move on with as less suffering as possible... 

My advice? Get a lawyer. Protect your assets. Be calm and cool with her but let her know you "know". Don't even THINK of trying to get her back or talk about working it out right now. Be an awesome husband on the surface from afar (while you're still her husband) but work on you and get a new life. See whats out there.

1 year down the line she will look at the GOOD man you were all this time and be ashamed of what she did. You don't want to be the needy, pathetic, tit-for-tat a-hole, most rejected men end up being that makes her choice look like it was the right move to everyone around her. It's not a great feeling.

STOP spying on her. STOP collecting information that just makes you feel bad. There is no more "truth" to be found. She moved on. Hurts yeah.
Proceed for divorce a stand-up guy.

Download and read Bill Ferguson's Mastery of Life series. Specifically "How to Heal a Painful Relationship".
Read all the man-up books suggested too.

Straight up... For whatever reason she no longer wants the man you are right now. It's sad yeah. It's ok. It happens. Do you burn her down and make her life hell because the attraction is gone? Is that going to make her come back? Or do you walk away a confident man full of love for that next right woman? Do you improve yourself and get strong while doing your best to forgive her for not being the woman you needed? I didn't at first. It was hell on earth for a very long time. Guess what? I turned it around. Now my wife wants me back and I have for the first time in my life the strength to say No. You're not good for me....

Don't do anything to burn her down man. Thats just jealousy. Walk away a proud man just protect yourself.
In the end you'll find it's the only way to get her back if you wanted that option later down the road...

Bill Ferguson's Mastery of Life series
Bill Ferguson's Mastery of Life series
Bill Ferguson's Mastery of Life series
Bill Ferguson's Mastery of Life series
Bill Ferguson's Mastery of Life series


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## devastated3343

I feel better today than yesterday.



WhyinSC said:


> STOP spying on her. STOP collecting information that just makes you feel bad. There is no more "truth" to be found. She moved on. Hurts yeah.
> Proceed for divorce a stand-up guy.


I'm trying. But right now it's the only information about the affair. I realize I'm torturing myself, and I'm only doing it so I can hurt more and blame her for hurting me. Reading the posts here is helping a lot, and I feel more in control of myself. 

But like I said, I can't have her bringing the OM over to the house when the kids are there. Everybody thinks they're smooth criminals, but something always goes wrong and the kids will find out.

Right now the emails are the only way I can think of to keep an eye on what's going on.




WhyinSC said:


> Don't do anything to burn her down man. Thats just jealousy. Walk away a proud man just protect yourself.
> In the end you'll find it's the only way to get her back if you wanted that option later down the road...


I don't want to burn her down, and thanks for saying this. It was never about hurting her back enough to make me feel better. I'll feel better. She's never going to want me back, she's not wired like that, and I'll move on and build a new life. The affair stings like a *****. I'll have to carry that for a long time.


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## iheartlife

I have a question for you--and I'm sorry if you answered this one already for someone else.

Have you done a background check on this man? Check for past crimes, arrests, bankruptcies, etc.

That is actually my first gut reaction when I think of an OM moving in on a woman who has children.

Sorry if this is a step you've already taken, it didn't occur to me to mention it before.


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## devastated3343

iheartlife said:


> I have a question for you--and I'm sorry if you answered this one already for someone else.
> 
> Have you done a background check on this man? Check for past crimes, arrests, bankruptcies, etc.
> 
> That is actually my first gut reaction when I think of an OM moving in on a woman who has children.
> 
> Sorry if this is a step you've already taken, it didn't occur to me to mention it before.


No, I havent done a background check. I know a little about him, but not much. 

It's definately dirty, immoral and reprehensible, and one of them should be grown up enough to know they should have waited.

But they didn't. 

I feel better today, feel like I want to improve myself and buy some new clothes. I still wish there hadn't been an affair
I wish she could have just given us time to respectfully and compassionately disentangle our lives. For our kids if nothing else
I wish the lasting image of my wife wasn't an irresponsible cheater and liar
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam

You are progressing at warp speed. It took me so much longer to get to the point you are. Very impressive.
Keep it up.


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## iheartlife

devastated3343 said:


> No, I havent done a background check. I know a little about him, but not much.


I hope you take that step. It's pretty easy these days via the Internet. You never know what you might turn up--people who go after married people don't tend to be life partner material. You may turn up the ammunition you need to keep him away from your kids, for good.


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## BigLiam

iheartlife said:


> I hope you take that step. It's pretty easy these days via the Internet. You never know what you might turn up--people who go after married people don't tend to be life partner material. You may turn up the ammunition you need to keep him away from your kids, for good.


This is true. These folks abuse the kids much more frequently than a natural parent. It is one of the reasons for exposing, even if you have no desire to reconcile.


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## devastated3343

BigLiam said:


> You are progressing at warp speed. It took me so much longer to get to the point you are. Very impressive.
> Keep it up.


Really? Its probably all an act. I feel stronger today, but the next time she's with him I'll be a wreck again. But I'll just keep faking it until it's real for me.

Lets be honest, if she had waited until we were divorced and then met someone and was banging the bejesus out of them and was happy I'd probably be busted up then too. This has made it all immediate, and painful, but if i hadnt found a site like this i might be wallowing in pity a year from now hoping she'd take me back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam

At some point, it dawned on me: I am happier without my XW, happier than I had ever been in the marriage.
Hopefully, you will be too.


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## the guy

Sorry your here brother but please get it together, and do the back ground check. our kids are counting on you to protect them.

Secondly there is no reason not to have a general moral clause in your aggreement with regards to *any* other man being around your kids. You do not have to be specific with regard to the current OM. 

Again ANY OM is prohibited from being around your kids until they are at a certain age or when the D is finalized. 

I think you are assuming you have to mention the OM and that is not the case. As this was mentioned before this is common issue in protecting the kids emotions through this trying time for them, it can be very confussing for the kids.

So please understand your sources do not have to be revealed, this can be a general moral aggreement for any guy your wife wants her kids around and you don't.

I strongly suggest to pay for a criminal back round check on this guy, if there is any kind of domestic violence or molestation convictions, this whole thing will need a different approach...a very aggresive approach on your part.

I know you feel like crap but you have kids that are counting on you!


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## iheartlife

:iagree:

sometimes when I click the like button I wish that post would light up in neon


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## crossbar

Okay, well...screw the mediator and get a lawyer. It's gonna cost but you need to look out for you and the kids. Talk to the lawyer about getting a restraining order out on the OM that he cannot be around your kids while the divorce is pending. Show the lawyer the e-mails of him spending the night while the kids were there. Your lawyer SHOULD site to the judge that the OM in the home would be too confusing to the children during the seperation and divorce. The judge ONLY has the kids best interest at heart and should sign the RO.

You need to talk to the lawyer about "at Fault" and "no fault" status. Because, I'm pretty sure, given the chances, she's gonna try to rake you over the coals in the divorce.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

crossbar said:


> Okay, well...screw the mediator and get a lawyer. It's gonna cost but you need to look out for you and the kids. Talk to the lawyer about getting a restraining order out on the OM that he cannot be around your kids while the divorce is pending. Show the lawyer the e-mails of him spending the night while the kids were there. Your lawyer SHOULD site to the judge that the OM in the home would be too confusing to the children during the seperation and divorce. The judge ONLY has the kids best interest at heart and should sign the RO.
> 
> You need to talk to the lawyer about "at Fault" and "no fault" status. Because, I'm pretty sure, given the chances, she's gonna try to rake you over the coals in the divorce.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## devastated3343

Going to see the therapist soon, have my first appointment this morning. I'm hoping for a good experience, that she'll give me some ways to work on this.

Yesterday was a better day, no crying or self pity. I could objectively see a lot of the problems we had in our marriage and starting thinking about my short-term and long-term goals. I spent the evening having dinner with friends, and it was great. Talking about my problems curiously takes my mind off them and I feel better.

But I still can't fall asleep without a pill, and I wake up too early and can't get back to sleep. I think about WW and OM, and it's really painful. I've read the 180 and the 'counter-intuitive' article. I realize I handled this all wrong, and was pathetic and clingy and tried to rationalize with her and remind her of our past and how much pain I was in. And of course I was unattractive, and she pushed me away. 

I'm working hard not to be that person. I have to let her go, and I have to believe that I'll be fine. I'm going to build a life without her, improve myself, learn to like myself, and then hopefully find someone that can love me.

But thinking of her with the OM still hurts. I know that she's making her own choices and they have nothing to do with me, that if I'm ever going to move on then I have to tell her that I loved her enough that I want her to be happy, and that if he's the one that makes her happy she should be with him.

But it still hurts to think of them together.


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## keko

Stop thinking about your WW and star acting on how to protect your kids from strangers sleeping around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Part of your pain is from you being angry at yourself for not taking any action. You have it in your power to actually take action on dealing with her and the OM in your house around your kids.

You've had good advice here on actions you can take. Others have taken them, and they do work and help.

So relieve some of your pain and do something.


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## arbitrator

Dev: It's time to stop placating to your WW and richly time for you to get mad. Mad to the point of getting to the lawyers office and getting the writ filed and getting a court order for temporary custody of the kids as well as one for the prohibition of her paramours presence any time that he is around them. Those kids do not need that!

Quit basking in the lonliness of your misery, get proactive with heeding the invaluable advise that our fellow TAM colleagues are trying to bestow upon you, and do something about it!


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