# If your partner is not allowed to watch porn...



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

...is he "allowed" to:


look at non-porn media while masturbating (think anything with women in skimpy clothing: Swimsuit Edition, Victoria's Secret, sexy R-rated movies, etc.) ?

Imagine other women while masturbating? 

Masturbate at all? 

Obviously, the same questions can be asked with genders reversed. Where's the dealbreaker line? 
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I ask because all of the above seem really similar to me and I'm not sure how it's possible to parse them out as distinct phenomena. 

If actually _seeing_ other women (via porn or the non-porn media options) is out, how can masturbating to the mental image of other women be okay?
Whether its Sally from the 4th floor or Scarlett Johannson, it's still a "saved" mental picture of something we've actually seen to some extent.
I just don't see any significant distinction between looking at porn with your eyes, looking at non-porn stuff as visual stimulus with your eyes, and looking at stuff in your head. 

Honestly. I'm open to being proven wrong here, I just don't see it right now.


If masturbation is not okay at all, cool - that's a clear, consistent position. 

If porn is not "allowed" because of concerns about exploitation of those involved, cool - that's a clear, consistent position. But the sincerity of this belief might best be tested by seeing if someone has diamonds, produced as a result of exploitation (often of children), or clothes made in sweatshops, etc. 


Edit: and if it's exploitation concerns, I suppose animated porn and the non-porn visual stimulus stuff is okay, right? 
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Thoughts?


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I wonder the same thing...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Oh brother. Women wanting to control what men think about when they masturbate. What will they think of next. When my wife puts out I don't need to masturbate. Problem solved.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm not trying to attack those who think porn is wrong. I'd just like to understand the boundaries proposed.

So, if any who DOES think watching porn is a dealbreaker for a relationship for them, what's acceptable on this list:


A) Masturbating while watching animated pornography
B) Masturbating while watching racy R-rated movie/sexy non-nude pictures.
C) Masturbating while remembering sexy images in head (this runs the gamut from, say, porn film you saw 5 years ago to the girl in the corner office)
D) Masturbating.
E) Being attracted to people other than your spouse. 

?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Going out on a limb here but I think people who are against porn are probably against masturbation as well.

Just my .02 and I have not one single basis for this thought other than my own opinion.

I'm not against porn.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Oh brother. Women wanting to control what men think about when they masturbate. What will they think of next. When my wife puts out I don't need to masturbate. Problem solved.


That goes both ways... if I'm getting what i need from my husband, I have no need to masturbate either. Now, if he were to masturbate, yea, I would think he'd be imagining some sexy blonde with big breasts lol. But, he himself has told me he has no need to masturbate. And as I stated elsewhere, there is no porn in our house. I have access to his phone, his computer, everything, and he doesn't clear history. There is nothing at all. And he abstains from porn by choice, not because I force him to. He just doesn't do it. But, I would certainly never try to TELL him what to think about f/when he did masturbate. Nor would I tell him he CAN'T do it. The only thing I say is he can't have sex with anyone but me.... no strip clubs (he never went to them anyway, saw no need/no desire for that)... and that goes for me as well.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> *Going out on a limb here but I think people who are against porn are probably against masturbation as well.*
> 
> Just my .02 and I have not one single basis for this thought other than my own opinion.
> 
> I'm not against porn.


Nope. Not against masturbation at all. But I am against porn. 

Oh, and DH doesn't go looking through lingerie catalogs either. And I don't go searching for pics of sexy men. LOL 

IDK, maybe we're odd....don't get me wrong, I have seen a little bit of porn... I just don't care for it. I really don't see it as anything sexy, IMO.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks for the answer, Maricha.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Oh brother. Women wanting to control what men think about when they masturbate. What will they think of next. When my wife puts out I don't need to masturbate. Problem solved.


:iagree::iagree: I'm a newbie and this is the second time I have noticed angst about porn on TAM. I laugh when I read of women who are so controlling and insecure that they view MOVIES as a threat to their marriages. If porn is not causing any sexual or emotional problems, there is nothing with it.

Sex is a necessary and healthy part of marriage. I firmly believe that spouses who refuse sex are not being real partners. Just like relating well emotionally, lovemaking is much more important than people care to admit. I don't condone using porn much more often than having marital sex. Sometimes husbands and wives can only blame themselves for porn addiction if they constantly refuse to be physically intimate. 

I love porn, but it can NEVER replace my husband. He is not intimidated by his wife watching porn and enjoying herself-my hubby says it turns him on to think of me being so turned on that I take matters *ahem* into my own lil hands.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

The line in our marriage is: don't fantasize about having sex with real people (spouse is OK of course).

We agree that each of us can fantasize about made up people, masturbate and view porn to our heart's content... provided none of that interferes with our sex life.

Having said that my wife doesn't like porn at all. It's just not her thing, to be honest it kind of grosses her out (not because of the sexual acts but the idea that these people have had TONS and TONS of partners).

I've not viewed a lot in our marriage, and atm I'm taking a moratorium from it... been about 2-3 weeks w/o any. To be honest it hasn't really been hard to walk away from.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My husband used to be anti porn. So much so that he thought my trashy romance novels (not my cup of tea but I do read them once in a blue moon) should be off limits.

What I see now is what he resented was yes our sex life was lacking. As long as that's fine he's game for anything. I'm the HD spouse but evidently I was doing it wrong. LOL


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Okay, I did not used to have a problem with any of this until I dated someone who became addicted to porn.

I'm trying to overcome my tendency to control everything, but it's a no-win situation anyways. It's beyond my control.

With my husband, he is very secretive about his habits, but I can tell when things are escalating, because he simply isn't intimate with me.

That hurts a lot. I'd like sex everyday, sometimes more than once a day, but oftentimes it's more like once every week or two. And I KNOW he masturbates during this time. WHY does he choose to masturbate when he has someone attractive, interested and who enjoys pleasuring him? I may never know.

In the past he has used non-porn items to masturbate, since porn is a no-go here. Well, that just meant I became more jealous and insecure about what movies we watch, what magazines he reads, etc. I own that this is MY problem, not his, but he did contribute to the creation of this problem.

Mental imagery - I assume he uses this 100% of the time. I know it's not about me, but I cannot control what goes on in his head. I've come to accept that.

The absolute most difficult thing for me is - I cannot talk to him about these things openly and honestly, as he prefers to change the subject or claims I'm trying to "stir sh!t up" or that I'm "looking for something to fight about". He doesn't give me the benefit of being able to handle the truth, which is frustrating and unfair, in my opinion.

So I guess our current method is: "don't ask, don't tell". (Well, even if I ask, he's not telling... LoL)!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> WHY does he choose to masturbate when he has someone attractive, interested and who enjoys pleasuring him? I may never know.


I don't get it either... not fully because I've always preferred my wife to pixels on a computer screen. Still I think for many guys it's about getting instant gratification.

Porn is like fast food, you know it's not good for you, you know that it's not a good substitute for quality food, but for some they eat a lot of it anyway... because it's quick and cheap.

Real sex is more like a fine meal, it takes time to be enjoyed properly. It may not always be available the instant you want it. It isn't quick, but it is so much finer.

Me I prefer real sex, but I think for some guys... they prefer the "fast food" version of sex.

Yin, I've always strived to be completely honest with my friends and my wife. I just can't stand leaving big issues left not talked about and unresolved.

You're obviously a stronger person in that regard than me. Still I'm curious when you talk to him, and he responds that you are trying to stir stuff up... do you come to him in a calm/loving way or more like an interrogation? If you are calm and he responds that strongly... well that sounds a lot like his harsh words are coming from guilt. Is he guilty about it? If so maybe you can talk to him about the whole issue from the angle of guilt.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I do come to him in an open, honest and loving way. I do tell him that I wish he could see that I am capable of talking about these things, and WANT to PROVE that I can handle the truth without getting upset. He is simply defensive and avoidant. That's how he is. 

Ironically, you'd think he'd be more open, having grown up in a household where porn was everywhere. I mean, on the coffee table, according to him. 

It hurts me when he threatens to cut me off for good, or tells me that he can live without sex forever. I thought it's the one thing we're supposed to enjoy with each other and no one else... :/

As for feelings of guilt... I'm just not sure that's an emotion he's able to experience. When I want to talk about it, (because YES, it affects me too!) He thinks I am simply trying to be nosy, overbearing, pick a fight, etc.

Does it never occur to him, does he never see, that it's okay to talk about these things? That he shouldn't be ashamed? That I'm okay with it, as long as I'm getting my fill?? 

Ugh. So frustrating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Well... He has "mommy" issues from his mother trying to control him, be overbearing, being essentially promiscuous and wild during his youth... Often leaving him in the care of family friends or his extremely righteous and devout grandparents...

It would take years to unravel it all... LoL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> It hurts me when he threatens to cut me off for good, or tells me that he can live without sex forever. I thought it's the one thing we're supposed to enjoy with each other and no one else... :/


Holy cow how could it NOT hurt you! From everything you said it sounds me to he's saying if you make me choose between porn and you... and he chooses porn.

It almost sounds like porn is this OW in your marriage. Maybe I'm just not seeing it right though.

None of that is healthy though IMO.

OK maybe I've got this romantic notion of what marriage should be... maybe I'm way off base so feel free to ignore what I'm about to say.

To me marriage is about two people loving each other so much that they will sacrifice their wants for the other's needs. They don't do that out of compulsion or with a hint of complaining. They do it because they love the other so much, that it would break their heart to deprive the other of what they need or desperately want.

None of us are perfect, and I don't measure up to that standard (neither does my wife). Still it is something we both strive for. Sure there are compromises... but the spirit of trying to meet each other's needs, that's very much alive.

It doesn't sound like your husband is striving to meet, or even discuss, this need with you. Not saying he's not a loving husband overall, but in this one regard... it sounds like he's not being as loving as he should be.

I could be completely off base though.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

No, that's pretty accurate, although I don't think porn is the overall issue - the way he views relationships is. My concerns just aren't valid to him. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Browncoat said:


> It almost sounds like porn is this OW in your marriage. Maybe I'm just not seeing it right though.


That was my first thought too. And while I wouldn't presume to TELL DH that he can't view porn, I also would hope it wouldn't interfere with our sex life. And, if it did, I'd like to think he'd pick me. I'm sorry you are going through this, Yin.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

My thing is that if you're gonna cut me off from sex for 3-4 months, and I am not a guy who is into fooling around and never have, then dammit I am going to watch porn and fantasize about whatever it is I feel like until she gets back in the mood!


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> No, that's pretty accurate, although I don't think porn is the overall issue - the way he views relationships is. My concerns just aren't valid to him. :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Maybe you should ask him how does he think a marriage should work? If I were you, I'd be curious if your marriage is what he thinks is about right... or not? Maybe if you can get him to admit to himself that he's being selfish in some ways (some pretty big ways it sounds like), perhaps would listen more to you rather than sweep this issue (and likely others) under the rug.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Browncoat said:


> Maybe you should ask him how does he think a marriage should work? If I were you, I'd be curious if your marriage is what he thinks is about right... or not? Maybe if you can get him to admit to himself that he's being selfish in some ways (some pretty big ways it sounds like), perhaps would listen more to you rather than sweep this issue (and likely others) under the rug.


Unfortunately, I don't think he has a clue how marriages are "supposed" to work - and he would likely get upset with me for asking such a "loaded" question... In all honesty, he views me as the one with the problem - not himself, or us together. I'm the "controlling" one, even though I've made numerous corrections to things such as being aware of my motives, the way I approach him, not trying to deny his reality, etc. He is hard pressed to really acknowledge the growth I've made. 

Let's put it this way - his mother had 4 marriages. Abuse, dysfunction and who knows what else were apart of them all. He probably sees marriage as temporary and probably negative. He also has a negative view of people, and women in particular.

I hate when he compares me to his mother. I hate it. I am my own person - I don't know if he can separate us. He's also a passive aggressive and a narcissist. I just have to accept that.

OP - sorry for hijacking your thread! :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> OP - sorry for hijacking your thread! :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you think about it... you have given examples of why SOME people don't want their spouses to view porn.... which was the OP original question.


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## Marvel212 (May 7, 2012)

How can you control what your husband thinks about when masterbating? Why dont you try to help him out when he is masterbating? Take over for him and tease him with a BJ and let it lead to sex!


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*If your partner is not allowed to watch porn...*

I've always lived under the impression that we don't "allow" other adults anything.... one way or another. Adults choose what they do, they don't need permission. 

You either like it, don't like it, or it doesn't really affect you either way. If it is within a marriage, then you make your preference known, they choose, you decide how it affects you and how to deal with the issue. 

As far as I'm concerned...

You don't ALLOW your spouse to view porn, they do or they don't.

You don't ALLOW your spouse to go out w/ friends you don't like, or cheat, or get tattoos, or spend too much money, or gain weight, or anything... it happens and you figure out what it means to the marriage. Of course, like anything else.... for a marriage to be successful it's all about communication.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Marvel212 said:


> How can you control what your husband thinks about when masterbating? Why dont you try to help him out when he is masterbating? Take over for him and tease him with a BJ and let it lead to sex!


A.) You can't - it's impossible.

B.) This is only possible when the husband makes himself "available" to alternatives.

In my case, my husband makes himself unavailable by choosing to do what he does in secrecy, and by not first giving me the opportunity to turn him down, therefore making the alternative "justifiable".

I would never turn him down. In fact, I asked him once why he'd prefer to masturbate in the shower, rather than ask me for a BJ.

He chose not to respond.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Yin your husband makes me sad. 

He sounds pretty shutdown about working on things too.

My marriage isn't perfect, but I think I would have a terrible time if my wife didn't talk to me about things that bothered me.

Do you two pal around much (i.e. best friends)? Do you two date much?


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh yes, we are best friends, in fact our relationship was built on a years-long platonic friendship - which may be why he sometimes has trouble fully transitioning to a romantic relationship.

I'll be the first to admit we don't "date" much, but we did spend a lot of time together outside of the home before the baby was born; it's much more difficult now.

He's really not a bad person, in fact he's been much better about communicating in general since we had our daughter. As far as intimacy goes - I'm sure she provides excuses and opportunities for his "alone time". This hurts, but I accept there is sometimes no way around it. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

im not against porn, per sey....i dont demand husband not watch porn, he told me he has grown up and likes the home movies we make.

i wouldnt mind if he had a one man party, but im HD, so i want first offer. and if he was doing this thing, he has to be up and at attention for me later.

he cannot turn me down, i am working so hard to put him in my first thought..

we do watch hbo, and showtime after dark every once in a while, but always together, unless when i ask him an he tells me he watched alone.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

SunnyT said:


> *If your partner is not allowed to watch porn...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right. I'm asking what's a dealbreaker for people. 
The "allow" was in quotes in the first post but not the title, so that's my bad.
"Allow" meaning "accept it within the relationship", ie it's not a dealbreaker


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Pandakiss said:


> i wouldnt mind if he had a one man party, but im HD, so i want first offer.


See that to me is the key. Not the HD part, but offering first dibs to your SO. I think that's what's most important when discussions of porn/masturbation come up.

If the SO is getting first dibs and is satisfied then generally (not always) there aren't many problems in this space.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

The funny thing is my husband can do whatever he wants. It's up to him to respect our boundaries, which is not to have casual friendship with the opposite sex that was discussed and agreed upon both of us.

He's a grown man and makes his own decisions. I do not have any expectations of him, nor him of me. This really makes our relationship work. I would rather know if he were looking at "porn" then him hiding it from me. It would not cause an issue as long as it never interferes our intimacy or if it was frequent.

It's funny. He wasn't too happy that I got a free video and watched it. He thought I bought it. The video came as a free gift with an order I bought online. I watched it for 2 minutes out of curiosity and was disgusted. I saved it in case he wanted to watch it and in the trash it went. My husband does not think too highly of the actors and actresses that film it. I was a bit surprised that he was uncomfortable that I watched it. I was up front and honest when I did.


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

[ not allowed to watch porn]Just that part in the question make me Angry,if you have a partner that treats you like a kid then you are crazy and you need to take back your rights.

I like my porn even when I get a lot of sex and I get myself off even when I am getting a lot of sex because it feels great.If you are married to somebody that thinks everything is about them then you have a problem because they are highly insecure.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> [ not allowed to watch porn]Just that part in the question make me Angry,if you have a partner that treats you like a kid then you are crazy and you need to take back your rights.


I understand what you are saying. Sometimes though rules like that can make sense.

If someone has had a serious porn addiction, like an alcoholic it's best to never touch the stuff again.

If the couple feels that their religion bars them from watching porn.

If a person is LD and watching porn to self satisfy the few times they are in the mood instead of going to their SO.

It's not always about control. Sometimes there are just other factors at play.

Though none of those occur in our house, so I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. Still I think these situations aren't rare.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I even have my two favorite porn stars to watch - "Linda Friday" and "Vanessa Videl", because I am into watching MILFs and Cougars.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol cee.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> [ not allowed to watch porn]Just that part in the question make me Angry,if you have a partner that treats you like a kid then you are crazy and you need to take back your rights.
> 
> I like my porn even when I get a lot of sex and I get myself off even when I am getting a lot of sex because it feels great.If you are married to somebody that thinks everything is about them then you have a problem because they are highly insecure.


Look at it this way. Its about respect for your spouse and your spouse's feelings on the matter not control. To go ahead and do something your spouse is uncomfortable with is just telling them you don't respect them enough to not do it. Besides your not gonna die without porn lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I even have my two favorite porn stars to watch - "Linda Friday" and "Vanessa Videl", because I am into watching MILFs and Cougars.


Hubby and I have different tastes in porn but we watch it to get ideas of what we would like to try with eachother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Gaia said:


> Look at it this way. Its about respect for your spouse and your spouse's feelings on the matter not control. To go ahead and do something your spouse is uncomfortable with is just telling them you don't respect them enough to not do it. Besides your not gonna die without porn lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This respect argument can be made both ways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

tacoma said:


> This respect argument can be made both ways.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True which is why both partners should see if they can come to an agreement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Hubby and I have different tastes in porn but we watch it to get ideas of what we would like to try with eachother.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not only would my wife never even consider watching porn(yes I have asked)but she would definitely NEVER do any of the things that most of them do in these pornos(again - I've asked); and because she detests porn I always partake in them when she's either a) not at home or b) has gone to bed and is snoring away.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol well whatever works right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

SunnyT said:


> I've always lived under the impression that we don't "allow" other adults anything.... one way or another. Adults choose what they do, they don't need permission.


That's something I've thought about a lot in other contexts.

I think freedom of choice and freedom to exercise choice are two closely allied, but very distinct issues.

To shamelessly borrow an example from _The Godfather_, if someone were to hand you a check and tell you: 

"In ten seconds, either your signature is going to be on that check or your brains are going to be on that check." 

--you still have freedom of choice. What's been taken away is your ability to freely exercise that choice, because of the negative consequence that have been attached to one of your two possible options.

That's an extreme example when we're talking about marriage, but I think the principle is the same. When we talk about 'allowing' another person to do something, it simply means that we have not personally attached negative consequences to their exercise of choice.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Not only would my wife never even consider watching porn(yes I have asked)but she would definitely NEVER do any of the things that most of them do in these pornos(again - I've asked); and because she detests porn I always partake in them when she's either a) not at home or b) has gone to bed and is snoring away.


she's missing out! porn is hot and at the same time hilarious. We used to watch it and laugh at the terrible acting and then get it on....


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

SoWhat said:


> I'm not trying to attack those who think porn is wrong. I'd just like to understand the boundaries proposed.
> 
> So, if any who DOES think watching porn is a dealbreaker for a relationship for them, what's acceptable on this list:
> 
> ...


I will make it as clear as I can, for me..

It is not so much the porn that was the issue.. The issue was that he hid it and then lied about it when i found it. It was not like it was in the history, i would have to dig for it and use a program to find it.. I knew if he went without sex for 2 whole months, he was doing something. The major issue was that he would rather watch that [email protected]#$ then to have sex with his own wife.. He could of had all of the crap in his own bedroom. 

Me being the higher drive spouse, made him looking at porn so much worse for me.. I bought a toy for us to use and have fun with (that is what i was hoping would be the out come) It blew up in my face, he didn't like me getting the toy with out his consent. He never asked me if he could whack off either, he wouldn't of had to.. So it was OK for him to do it, but no ok for me. 

I eventually left him a couple of months ago.. I could no longer take the rejection.. I began to hate him so i figured better off to leave then live another day with him. He does regret everything now, but it is a little to late.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

I think the true question here is why do you feel the need to control your spouses thoughts? and other behaviors on such a specific level? This IS NOT healthy.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

No problem with porn here. Doesn't do anything for me, but H likes it. Not a problem because our sex is often and awesome. So it's a non-issue. 

Which made me think of my ex. It wasn't porn that was an issue, altho he was watching and not giving up enough sex... it was his attitude toward me. So I never did see it as a "porn issue"...it as an a**hole issue.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I don't like porn...can't imagining 'forbiding' my H from looking though.
The word 'allowed' has a parent/child feel to it...maybe that's just me.
We discussed porn before we got married so my views were always known.

The only time I've been aware of H looking at porn with interest was when our babies were small and I went the LD for a couple of years. Thing was...the more he looked at porn the less I wanted to have sex with him...let alone let him see me naked.

For the last decade or so we have plenty of sex...i almost never say no and i've not noticed any porn around...he can of course be hiding his tracks but he says it loses it's charm when I'm panting for him and if he is still looking at it..well it as never effected our sex life/marriage...He never turns me down for sex or cuddles.

I have no problem with masturbation (solo or together)...that seems to me to normal and healthy and with a decent imagination can be fun too!

I so 'get' that man has been looking at/ lusting after women forever... great! That's how were meant to be! 
But looking at a woman walking down the street and thinking "yum" (and even saving a mental picture) is different to looking at the same woman with her legs around her ears with a d!ck in every warm hole she has to offer! 

I love to look at a beautiful face or body (male or female) but the imagies we get from online porn these days are so... extreme. Plastic people with enormous breasts and d!cks (hopefully not on the same individual..lol) are always ready and available and having marathon sex.

If a man is watching *large* amounts of porn I don't how it CAN"T taint his view of women and sex...


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I give my wife right of first refusal. I never hide porn watching. I figure it's important for her to understand that's it's in her hands so to speak. I'd be happy to never see it again, but as it is I watch a fair amount. Normally I'll allow one rejection then it's porn until she initiates. I'll not allow her to reject me twice in a row anymore. It's a coping mechanism after 12 low sex years.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Oh brother. Women wanting to control what men think about when they masturbate. What will they think of next. When my wife puts out I don't need to masturbate. Problem solved.


No kidding. But were the shoe on the other foot, oh my gawd, we would be "controlling". 

Excluding porn addiction, I don't know why some women get so bent out of shape about this. Fact is nearly every guy views it from time to time, no matter how satisfied he is with who he's with or his sex life. I know a lot of guys. The all view it to some degree. I think if women just understood and accepted that and understood it is not usually because of a "desire" for someone else, and men were more open about it, it would be so much less of an issue.

I am thankful every day my W has no such hang ups about what "drives" a man and makes him tick. Understanding and accepting the very basic male psychology. Just as I have no hang ups about what drives a woman and makes her tick. I know, like many women, her fantasies are "in her head". She's not as visual. I am. My fantasies, with or without her are more visual than hers. Why, because it's different, does it have to be "wrong"? I know she sometimes has fantasies about other men (maybe nobody in specific other than the hot guy she saw while out), or things that she would never really truly desire to do in real life. But she has them, as I do. That has really no bearing on me because I understand it "is what it is". I will, however, help her along in her fantasies as much as I can!

Funny how it all works out so superbly as a result. No insecurities, no jealousy about what is SIMPLY NATURAL, a little understanding we are "different", and a fantasic sex life as a result. I could not be with someone again who tried to control what I thought, when I masturbated, or what I viewed, or who took any of that as some great sign that all men are deviant perverts or that she was "not enough" or "not good enough" for me. Hogwash. 

I've found the pot at the end of the rainbow. She's awesome, she understands men and is secure in herself, and there isn't a chance in hell I would consider doing anything to lose such an understanding, open, and wonderful woman. Not....a....chance. There is something very satisfying and liberating about not having to hide ones basic human nature to the one you love. Cheat or "desire" something "better" than that? Again, no way.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I give my wife right of first refusal. I never hide porn watching. I figure it's important for her to understand that's it's in her hands so to speak. I'd be happy to never see it again, but as it is I watch a fair amount. Normally I'll allow one rejection then it's porn until she initiates. I'll not allow her to reject me twice in a row anymore. It's a coping mechanism after 12 low sex years.


She snagged me once late at night watching porn and loudly read me the riot act up and down, and she said that it was completely disgusting and disrepectful and that she better never see or hear me doing it again! But it's ok to deny your man sex for 4 months at a time and to rarely ever be in the "mood" anymore; so of course I have not stopped watching it but now I am just........_more careful_.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

YinPrincess said:


> Okay, I did not used to have a problem with any of this until I dated someone who became addicted to porn.
> 
> I'm trying to overcome my tendency to control everything, but it's a no-win situation anyways. It's beyond my control.
> 
> ...


I think this is the boat I am in, and it saddens me greatly. Don't ask if you don't want to know....


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## cloudwithleggs (Oct 13, 2011)

waiwera said:


> If a man is watching *large* amounts of porn I don't how it CAN"T taint his view of women and sex...


I didn't mind porn, but i'm am really starting to see how abusive it is towards women, for the 10% that is ok you have the other 90% that is pretty nasty.

I think it has nothing to do with what the people look like for me but how they are being treated, how can anyone want to watch a woman being abused because that is often what it is.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

cloudwithleggs said:


> I didn't mind porn, but i'm am really starting to see how abusive it is towards women, for the 10% that is ok you have the other 90% that is pretty nasty.
> 
> I think it has nothing to do with what the people look like for me but how they are being treated, how can anyone want to watch a woman being abused because that is often what it is.


This is true. A lot of porn today really crosses some lines I think. Ok, so a well timed spank on the bottom or two can be kind of nice to receive, or so the W tells me, but some of the crap in porn now that seems mainstream....spitting, slapping boobs, yanking hair (W also likes a nice well timed not too rough hair pull, but yanking???), forceful bj's where the poor gal is gagging with tears streaming down her face. Ugh. Who gets off on that? Some of this stuff just seems bordeline rape like. 

I found a site that I download movies from for W and I. Very tastefully done but full on explicit sex. None of that garbage in there. I haven't visited another site since I found it. I just don't get off on watching women being abused. I understand some women like it, but I think they're in the small minority.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I don't know who watches that stuff. 
None of my friends do (or... none admit it?). 

I guess it's like Soulja Boy CDs... we know *someone* must have been buying them, but we're not quite sure who.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

YinPrincess said:


> A.) You can't - it's impossible.
> 
> B.) This is only possible when the husband makes himself "available" to alternatives.
> 
> ...


I sympathise. My situation is the reverse. I've invited my wife several times to "lend a hand", or be part of the process in some way. I'd rather look at my wife than look at porn. Shot down on all occasions.

I'll never ask again.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

SoWhat, if YOU are the one choosing to define porn as a dealbreaker you better make darn sure YOU KNOW EXACTLY what the boundary is and specifically why.

Personally, just using porn itself, or even masturbating woud NEVER be a dealbreaker if I were to get married again, though someone trying to control me exploring my own sexual interests within the relationship would be a dealbreaker for me.

I think it is ok to dislike porn, and to even have boundaries on the issue. As a spouse you should always be the main target of your partner's love and affection, however sexual desire is not one and the same thing, and our minds are constantly receiving and interpreting visual and auditory input, and one of those subprocess that is always working is the sexualization one. I personally think it is unhealthy to try shutting that process off.

If it is really that important to you that you'd end your marriage over it then it is good you are setting this boundary and defining the consequences now. But I have to warn you that 99.9% of men that would agree to shutting off their sexual subconsciense and handing over the keys to their W so she can start him up and shut him off like a car, are lying to themselves about their ability to function like that. Yes there are men that choose not to view porn and, and perhaps not even slip from time to time, and its about the respectful attitude you should be focussing on, not setting dealbreakers for one specific behavior. Base your choices on a mate on who they are not what they do, and also be flexible enough because as life goes on we all change in little ways, your viewpoint on porn may change and you may become more or less tolerant of this or even other unrelated "dealbreakers" you have set.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I wish a woman would try to tell me what to do with my own penis, in my own time! She'd get a nice hardy guffaw for her troubles.

As long as I'm not sticking it in a third party, and am satisfying you, what I do with my God given penis isn't any woman's business. I wouldn't even entertain the thought of being with a woman who spent her time fretting about my jerk off time.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

porn does more harm than good in relationships at least most of the time i believe


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> porn does more harm than good in relationships at least most of the time i believe


That could very well be, but it's not universally harmful. Which is why you get so many debates on TAM about porn.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

donny64 said:


> Who gets off on that? Some of this stuff just seems bordeline rape like.


A lot of women do actually. The rape fantasy is one of the largest searched pornographic scenarios for women, if not the largest.

But I'm with you. I'm not an every day, or even every week, porn watcher. I actually watch more porn though now in my early 30's than I ever did in my teens and 20's. And I can get into some very kinky stuff, but I do NOT like to see women terribly abused and degraded in porn. It's an instant turn off.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Cee Paul said:


> She snagged me once late at night watching porn and loudly read me the riot act up and down, and she said that it was completely disgusting and disrepectful and that she better never see or hear me doing it again! But it's ok to deny your man sex for 4 months at a time and to rarely ever be in the "mood" anymore; so of course I have not stopped watching it but now I am just........_more careful_.


OK... the fact that you go months without sex is mind blowingly awful but I have to say your post makes me mad!

All over this site people talk of the utmost importance of honesty and truthfulness in marriages.

How can you justify these comments.

PS: Honesty is a issue in my marriage so this trigger for me.
I want/insist on complete honesty. Not just on the things my H sees fit to be honest about.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

waiwera said:


> OK... the fact that you go months without sex is mind blowingly awful but I have to say your post makes me mad!
> 
> All over this site people talk of the utmost importance of honesty and truthfulness in marriages.
> 
> ...


Yeah TAM has convinced me that sweeping things under the rug is bad... pretty much universally.

My wife have striven to be increasingly honest and truthful with each other. While at times the truth hurts, long term it's best to know what's bothering/concerning the other.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

waiwera said:


> OK... the fact that you go months without sex is mind blowingly awful but I have to say your post makes me mad!
> 
> All over this site people talk of the utmost importance of honesty and truthfulness in marriages.
> 
> ...



Let's say you're really into....romantic comedies. 
And your husband got really really angry when you watch romantic comedies, because he thinks they are degrading, exploitative, harmful to relationships, create unrealistic expectations, and make him really insecure.

You, naturally, don't see what the fuss is about. 

You're of course going to continue watch them, even if its when you're by yourself. 

Will you be honest with him about it, knowing that he's going to get totally pissed about it every time even though it's something that's clearly innocuous? 

I'm sure like 98% of women watch rom-coms. 
And a very similar percentage of men watch some form of pornography. 

--------------

And what does he have to be honest about on this issue?
If he masturbates at all?
If he masturbates to fantasies of other women in his head? 
If he masturbates to pictures of women in bikinis?
If he masturbates while looking at porn?

What's the boundary you're suggesting? Does he have to self-report every spill of seed? Or just be forthcoming (no pun intended) when you ask?


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

All those words to justify telling lies and keeping secrets... shame on you.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Maybe.

But I am looking for perspective. 

Is H required to disclose everytime he masturbates? Everytime he masturbates and thinks of someone? Everytime he masturbates and looks at something for a visual stimulus?

Is it an affirmative duty or can he wait until you ask?

This is a serious question, by the way, I'm not trying to mess with you.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Cee Paul's apparent crime is that he watches porn, and plays with the penis God gave him, without his wife's permission.

Meanwhile Cee Paul's wife is a cold fish who not only refuses to have sex with him, but berates him for finding sexual release where he can in lieu of sex.

I don't think, between these two people, Cee Paul is the one who deserves reproach. Frankly a ton of men would be cheating on her ass right about now. She should be grateful that the only thing he's doing is porn watching to substitute what she refuses to give him in the first place.

The only mistake Cee Paul is doing is not watching while she's in the same room, and cumming as she scolds him.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm talking about honesty. 
Nothing else.

I answered a few pages back about my opinion. Don't like porn but wouldn't forbid H to do anything. But then we have sex several times a week and porn has never been an issue for us. 

Masturbation is wonderful...solo or mutual. He no doubt pleases himself from time to time when I'm not around..cool so do I. But don't lie to me and tell me your not when you are.

I just HATE lies.

The liar can always find a way to justify their dishonesty.

My H managed to justify lying to me...not about these issues (financial) but in his head he decided it was the best thing to do, because it would easier for him and he could avoid having a row with me.

The lies almost ended our marriage...not what he was lying about.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

jaquen said:


> Cee Paul's apparent crime is that he watches porn, and plays with the penis God gave him, without his wife's permission.


No his crime is lying about it to his wife and keeping secrets, I stated a couple of times I wouldn't forbid my H to do anything...he's a grown man.

I gather now the talk from some of you about 100% transparancy and trust in marriage is all BS??

Or do you feel you only need to be honest about things that don't invlove your penis.

What happens if your wife LOVES shopping as much as you love your penis...can she keeping her spending habit a secret?
Even if it makes you deeply unhappy and you voice your opinion on it...she should just work harder to keep it a secret from you?

As far as Cee Pauls situation. I don't understand why people put up with it. I am fairly HD and wouldn't live the sexless life he has.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

^^^ Lying is also a huge pet peeve for me.

I think a lot of guys don't give women credit for being able to handle the truth... When you lie, you deprive us of the opportunity to receive the truth and deal with it as a partner.

If you tell the truth and your spouse has a problem with it... It's THEIR problem, not yours.

As Waiwera said above, the lies are often the greater issue than what you're lying about!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

YinPrincess said:


> I think a lot of guys don't give women credit for being able to handle the truth...


That`s because when it concerns pornography a large percentage of them can`t handle the truth.

(Dear god I can`t believe I just posted in another porn thread)


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't think it's really lying... it's more like not discussing it. And if she isn't "sharing"...and she certainly isn't.... then he is free not to share. 

Also, if she isn't giving it up....then it's really none of her business whether he gets off to porn or not. I don't get how someone can withhold sex, which is a huge deal, and still demand to have some say in any rules. Nope.

If I was Cee Paul, I'd be watching it on the big screen in the living room.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

> I'm talking about honesty.
> Nothing else.
> 
> I answered a few pages back about my opinion. Don't like porn but wouldn't forbid H to do anything.


The problem here is that Cee Paul is not dealing with you who can accept this to some degree, and is also having frequent sex with her husband. He's dealing with someone who has unilaterally initiated a shut down on marital sex, and then forbids him from pleasuring himself and tells him in essence he's a disgusting pig.

Now, when I read his post about going underground with it, I winced a little. Not because he was lying to the ice queen, but because it was just the wrong move to make. She made a silly demand, and he (in her eyes) has caved in again. Had that of been me, she'd of gotten a "touch chit, you are in no position to dictate to me what I can do to have my sexual needs met since you checked out long ago. Deal with it or leave. Meanwhile I'm gonna rub one out, and then figure out just how much interest I HAVE in staying here any longer."

This was not something he was doing that caused problems in the bedroom, this is something he turned to after she cut him off. She has zero say in if this is okay for her or not. Her feelings at this point do not factor in. She does not own him, his mind, or his penis. She, however thinks she does. If he thinks about it and takes his testicles back, maybe she'll get that figured out.

Some women (some, not all or most) are so into the "my body, my choice" thing, but don't want to afford men the same consideration they demand.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

waiwera said:


> I'm talking about honesty.
> Nothing else.
> 
> I answered a few pages back about my opinion. Don't like porn but wouldn't forbid H to do anything. But then we have sex several times a week and porn has never been an issue for us.
> ...



I read your post a few pages back on the issue, and I actually agree with you.

But I don't get the reprimand on Cee Paul. His wife is forsaking her marital pack and is refusing him sex. That is cruel. She also has taken it a step further and is rebuking and actually forbidding him from watching porn and getting himself off.

If I were him I wouldn't lie, and just tell her it's never going to happen. But this man apparently has a bull of a wife, and he's tired of getting strung up. He's in a HORRID position. I totally get why he feels the needs to hide this, even if I believe he should muster up the courage to not. But it can't be easy dealing with someone nagging at you constantly when you want to get your rocks off, while simultaneously serving as the origin of your dissatisfaction.




SunnyT said:


> If I was Cee Paul, I'd be watching it on the big screen in the living room.


With the speakers plugged up, at full blast, butter ball ass naked!


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

In the time I've been on the TAM boards the one thing that comes up time and time again is the need for honesty.

That trust is the foundation of any relationship.

I am so disheartened to read these posts with you lot justifying telling lies... when would it be acceptable for your wife to lie to you?

The way cee pauls wife treats him is disgraceful. Only cee paul can change that. I wish he could have sex everyday with a wild woman who wanted rip his clothes off... i wish he had a happier life.
I've seen his threads over the past months and he came here and talked about the secrets and sneaky behaviour his wife was dealing out...he was upset and didn't know what the he!! she was up to... i recall him thinking an affair.

But it's ok for him to lie...


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

waiwera said:


> In the time I've been on the TAM boards the one thing that comes up time and time again is the need for honesty. That trust is the foundation of any relationship.


I'm a little confused, because you keep on referring to TAM as though it is one collective group think, all in line, everyone doling out the exact same advice. From my experience here the advice wildly varies, people often disagree and debate, because, well, we're all different and all come from different backgrounds.



waiwera said:


> I am so disheartened to read these posts with you lot justifying telling lies... when would it be acceptable for your wife to lie to you?



This is clearly a sore subject for you, and it might be causing you to lose objectivity. Because nobody in this thread recommended, condoned, or celebrated Cee Paul lying to his wife. Quite the contrary, almost all of us said straight up that we'd totally tell her what we were doing, and be brazen about it.

You're mistaking understanding with condoning. They are not the same thing. We empathize with a man being denied a basic human pleasure, who is turning to porn to make up for his wife's lack of care for his needs, and see that she's even trying to rob him of that. It is NOT an easy situation to be in, and he's choosing the path of least resistance so that he doesn't upset her, and can continue to enjoy what little sexual activity he can muster. 

Who WOULDN'T empathize with that is the question. Again, he should find the guts to tell her, and do it anyway. But my God, you can't help but understand why he feels the need to lie to this woman.

I think your deep lying pet peeve is really, truly causing you to read into people's posts views that they don't even share. Because I know that if I was Cee Paul I'd be jerking off right in the bed next to her, every single chance I got.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Just for the record she has no problems with me masturbating at all and is fully aware of it going on and thinks it's normal; but as far as porn goes she forbids it because a) she thinks it's degrading - disgusting - and disrespectful, and b) she is worried about it bringing a virus to our computer which they have been known to do(even though we have a really good virus protector that is constantly running).


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

jaquen said:


> I'm a little confused, because you keep on referring to TAM as though it is one collective group think, all in line, everyone doling out the exact same advice. From my experience here the advice wildly varies, people often disagree and debate, because, well, we're all different and all come from different backgrounds.
> 
> *while people views on different subjects vary thoughts on whether we should be secretive and honest with our spouses seems to be universally the same*
> 
> ...


Thankyou for your thoughtful discussion, as said this IS a sore point for me.

Honesty and openness is listed as #3 on the list of women needs in the book His Needs Her Needs.. so I feel ok with my stand on this.... your ok with your stand on this too


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> but as far as porn goes she forbids it because a) she thinks it's degrading - disgusting - and disrespectful



You know what's even more degrading, disgusting, and disrepectful? Depriving your spouse of sex when you are physically capable.

She might want to turn that disapproving eye inward. The fact that you're looking at porn sounds like the least of your sexual issues.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Cee Paul said:


> Just for the record she has no problems with me masturbating at all and is fully aware of it going on and thinks it's normal; but as far as porn goes she forbids it because a) she thinks it's degrading - disgusting - and disrespectful, and b) she is worried about it bringing a virus to our computer which they have been known to do(even though we have a really good virus protector that is constantly running).


Hey cee paul i'm sorry if I was rude or mean.

I dragged a lots of baggage (re: a suitcase) into this discussion regarding lies and secrets.

I just believe in honesty and the trust that comes with it.... it helps me sleep at night

Peace.


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## EngagedGraduate (May 17, 2012)

People who watch porn hide it from their lovers not because s/he loves porn more than the person, but because there is a disconnect in opinions and concerns about porn. I don't think it is bad, it doesn't influence how I think about my fiance. I watched porn before we met, and I still do. My fiance enjoys and appreciates that I like to watch it from time to time. She likes to watch it to, and I like it when she does.

My ex-girlfriend forbid me, but I found her worries baseless, so I covered it up from her. She found it disgusting, but this is not reason enough for me to do it without her. She thought it was not monogynous, I did not compare porn with her, or replace her with porn, it is totally different spheres of experience. She thought it was demeaning and victimizing. I don't watch violent porn. I like videos where it is clear that the people in them are free and having fun. I felt that her concerns were misguided. As long as she didn't know she was happy, because ultimately it was a positive thing in my and our lives.

I don't want to generalize, but my ex-girlfriend was a needy and irrational lover. That very much influenced my opinion that no, she was just over-reacting. Obviously, I did not feel I could be open around her, and the larger problems led to our break up.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

waiwera said:


> Hey cee paul i'm sorry if I was rude or mean.
> 
> I dragged a lots of baggage (re: a suitcase) into this discussion regarding lies and secrets.
> 
> ...


No problem; and if it were something like I am hiding a drinking problem or smoking crack out behind the garage when I promised her I'd stay sober - I'd feel bad, but watching someone perform a kinky act in a porn that turns me on because my wife is not into it isn't hurting or harming anyone.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

tacoma said:


> That`s because when it concerns pornography a large percentage of them can`t handle the truth.
> 
> (Dear god I can`t believe I just posted in another porn thread)


LoL! My bad! 

As I said, if you are honest and your partner can't handle that honesty, it's THEIR problem. That doesn't mean anyone gets hostile or defensive about it - tact and empathy are also important, and can really affect the reaction you receive. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IAMCIV (Nov 8, 2011)

This has been an interesting thread,

I'm so f'd up when it comes to porn and my wife I don't watch R rated movies, I avoid commercials with sexy women in them, I just hate looking at anything attractive when she's around because if I look, I'm a pig and I dont want her, if I don't I have a problem and have to turn my head before the demons take over (ala rolling stones paint it black). There's no winning. I don't even watch the home movies we made together because I'm afaid she'll freak out and say, if he wants to watch that, then maybe he wants to watch other porn. Shoot I don't even compliment her as much as I'd like because I'm afraid she'll say "if he likes my tit's, he probably likes hers too" It just leads to places I'd rather her not go.

I am free to look at porn though, just not while married to my wife...

I was one of "those" husbands who hid porn use from their wives. I told her I wouldn't and did, but it wasn't about desiring other women or my wife not being enough, that's the fathest thing from the truth. Porn was like a stress lesser, which turned into a stress morer. I never once denied my wife sex, but our communication wasn't great and I felt it easier to watch someone do something like touching herself for example than ask my wife to do that something and then feel akward about it because she really didn't want to be doing it... did that make sense? 

I will say it like this, when I used to masturbate to porn it was about me and me alone. Sex is about my wife and I. I cannot have sex or receive a sexual favor without returning the favor or making sure my wife is taken care of. I am a very giving lover. I take pride in the satisfaction of my very attractive wife, that takes a lot of energy. Porn doesn't. 

Porn makes my wife feel like I am not satisfied with her, so I no longer look at it. I disagree with how she looks at things but I don't want her feeling anyway that isn't true.

But as far as the op. I guess she'd be ok with me masurbating even though I rarely do, but she doesn't want me desiring anyone else. So that's no porn, r rated stuff bikin stuff anything like that. Oh and not only is it not ok to look at porn, I can't want to look at it and not look. Because she doesn't want to stop me from doing anything I want to do. If I want to look go ahead, she just can't be married to me. Oh and I'm going to look eventually according to her, and she's just in our marriage for as long as it can last. 

Everything in our marriage is great sans this one thing. We are best friends and have sex 5-7 times a week. But if I look at porn it's over. 

I think it's weird though like I like the costumes and the way the actress drees up, but she rarely wears any lingere, I buy her stuff, she still has a $50 gift card and she says it takes too long to put on, and stuff like that. She feels its more about the act then the packaging, so i don't get what I want because she doesn't see the point? 

whatever. I acctually found these boards while wondering how often it was that women would divorce for porn use.


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## cloudwithleggs (Oct 13, 2011)

IAMCIV said:


> snip


That was a very sad post, i do understand your wife's view but i feel i also understand yours.

I wonder if your wife never made an issue of porn how much would you really have a desire for it.

All i know is if i was in a relationship i would have no need or desire for porn, i'd be to busy thinking of ways and doing things to my partner.

For the plus side of porn i have seen some very good male performers and rough sex between two consenting adults is good in my book.

So what would happen if there was never any porn?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

IAMCIV said:


> This has been an interesting thread,
> 
> I'm so f'd up when it comes to porn and my wife I don't watch R rated movies, I avoid commercials with sexy women in them, I just hate looking at anything attractive when she's around because if I look, I'm a pig and I dont want her, if I don't I have a problem and have to turn my head before the demons take over (ala rolling stones paint it black). There's no winning. I don't even watch the home movies we made together because I'm afaid she'll freak out and say, if he wants to watch that, then maybe he wants to watch other porn. Shoot I don't even compliment her as much as I'd like because I'm afraid she'll say "if he likes my tit's, he probably likes hers too" It just leads to places I'd rather her not go.


Why do you put up with this BS? This woman has some deep, deep insecurities, and instead of you guys facing HER problems head on, you are enabling her insecurities, and she is falling deeper into them. 

This is the single most baffling thing about the people on TAM. Some of you people put up with the most egregious situations, and seem to be bending, twisting, and overextending yourselves backward to keep in the good graces of people who are incredibly controlling and laughably unreasonable. It's like some of your spouses are putting you through endless tests, that garner little to no reward whatsoever. That's not a marriage, that's slavery.

If a man or woman is going to give up porn, or anything they consider a vice for that matter, it's got to be because they feel a conviction to give it up. It can't be for just the spouse, it has to be for themselves as well. That's the only way it will work, because otherwise you'll fall right back into the same old patterns. 

And really, your wife is going to give up what you consider to be a great marriage if you even THINK of looking at porn. She wants to control you so much, her insecurities are so profound, that she can't even fathom you having even the temptation or desire to look at another woman's form sexually?

If I were you I'd put the porn on and call her bluff. Because if she truly is going to leave a marriage over this, then it's probably best you let her go.

You really need to dig deep inside and man up. This is sad because it's so ridiculous.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

IAMCIV, I know what you mean about the looking away from attractive women when your W is around you.

I used to have a bit of a porn obsession, and kept it hidden quite well from my W, I'd sneak a 15 or 20 minute browsing session in before she got home from work. She never knew about it at all until after over a year of marriage, until she caught me that is (it wasn't even anything extreme or nasty, just random nude girls). I understand her betrayed feelings and I stayed off porn completely for a couple years. I also realized when we were first engaged she would get so angry if my eyes glanced at some pretty lady (thing is my eyes will glance at everyone alike, she only got jealous if it happened to be some pretty lady).

I was at the point where I was completely conditioned to look away from any woman that was physically attractive in even the slightest (so basically every woman). I would not only not look, I'd turn my head the other direction until the threat was passed.

I think it did play a part of me shutting myself off sexually, and it only took two or three times of being turned down for me to stop even pursuing her, basically caved to let her be the one to pursue me and I learned to deal with it - we lost our sexual bond real quick after that.


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

I think the saddest thing that I ever read was about a couple and the husband looked at porn pretty frequently and masturbated I'd say a good majority of the time. His wife had no issues with it at all, until he got angry about her masturbating with sex toys. He couldn't stand the thought of his wife masturbating, having sex toys, or doing anything remotely sexual that didn't involve him (including her orgasms) sex was all about him. 

But I'm assuming this guy had some major issues with anything, he even badgered his wife into leaving the male OBGYN she'd been going to since she was 18 yrs old and comfortable with to a female OBGYN she didn't like at all, all because he was probably the most insecure person I'd ever seen post anywhere on any forum. Man that was years ago and wow did we all call him out on his bullcrap.

Anyways I would never dream of telling my S/O that he couldn't watch porn, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't tell me I couldn't have toys. And I'm certainly not his thought police, he can fantasize about whatever he wants, if it's not about me, how the heck would I know? The same goes for me, I do fantasize about sex with him when masturbating, not all the time, but some of the time.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

My GF's got the insecurities too, the sort that Lon and IAMCIV are talking about. She's literally saddened by the fact that I find other women attractive. 
I never EVER mention to her "X is hot!" or even "Y is attractive." But she knows I think that (especially when it comes to women that look like her - fit, curvy, tan skin, dark hair) and makes comments.

I tell her "If I didn't find other women attractive, I'd never have found you attractive!" That logic's pretty ineffective, as you'd have guessed.

I do think insecurities underlie most of the opposition to porn. That's what my anecdotal evidence suggests, at least - my exes that were confident in how they looked never had a problem with it. Those who have body image issues have a big problem with it.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Some of have genuine ethical objections... If people really knew what the industry was like, they might be just as disgusted... Then again, maybe not... LoL!

Anyways, that's a whole other ballpark. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> Some of have genuine ethical objections... If people really knew what the industry was like, they might be just as disgusted... Then again, maybe not... LoL!
> 
> Anyways, that's a whole other ballpark.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're probably right. 
I wonder if there's any carryover here - are those that oppose porn on ethical grounds more/less likely to oppose the diamond trade, or cheaply-made clothing from south Asia, etc. ? 

I imagine the porn biz is pretty awful in some areas. It's probably relatively innocuous in others. I know some women who've done softcore/just nude stuff and didn't have any objections to their connections in "the industry." I imagine those that participate in more extreme stuff have a different story to tell.


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## IAMCIV (Nov 8, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Why do you put up with this BS? This woman has some deep, deep insecurities, and instead of you guys facing HER problems head on, you are enabling her insecurities, and she is falling deeper into them.
> 
> This is the single most baffling thing about the people on TAM. Some of you people put up with the most egregious situations, and seem to be bending, twisting, and overextending yourselves backward to keep in the good graces of people who are incredibly controlling and laughably unreasonable. It's like some of your spouses are putting you through endless tests, that garner little to no reward whatsoever. That's not a marriage, that's slavery.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the advice, but I honestly see things in a very different light. 

First let me say that I believe my wife has a condition called bpd. Borderline Personality Disorder. It is a disorder of the emotions where all logic seems to be removed by emotions and the only thing she at times can see is what justifies her beliefs, i.e. where her emotions take her. I have not asked her to see a psych yet because 99% of bdpers think they are ok and don't have anything wrong with them... so it's kinda a hard thing to bring up. 

Now, we have talked about stuff in the past and when her logic is working she understands that men and women are attracted to each other be nature. She gets that, but the idea of me being sexually excited by another woman makes her feel that our relationship and what we have is nothing if not total. This is where the lines blur because of the BPD. As well as other issues of a strict christian upbringing teaching that looking at a woman to lust at her is the same as committing adultry...

Now my wife is my life, pure and simple. My everything. My smile. If me not looking at porn assures her that our love means something than as far as I see it its a very simple thing. She is a very giving and caring woman, who is drop dead gorgeous and can't get enough of me.

Some guys live without oral because their wife won't go down on them, my wife goes down on me regularly unitl SHE cums, and g*d d*mn thats fun, she makes me feel alive. Some guys have wives that want sex once a month, she wants it about every day. Now sure we might have bumps here and there and I wish she understood my desire to occasionally look at porn. That it has nothing to do with her but it is a small part of our marriage. And there is way too much good to throw away because of porn. 

So I abstain, for me and for us. It gets frustrating trying to avoid things that will send her over the edge, but well worth the effort and I get plenty in return.


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