# Wife going on Vacation Solo



## Cody1980

I have read a few post regarding spouses going on vacation solo but nothing has been specific to my current situation. In general I feel that solo vacations can be healthy for a lot of relationships and that if people truly trust their spouse then they should not worry about them cheating.

Here is my current situation. I am leaving out most of the details but just know that I have been married for 3 years and VERY happily for 2 1/2. The last 6 months have been hard on us due to a HORRIBLE thing that happened to my wife in September that was completely out of our control.

Sooooo...

My wife and I were suppose to go on a big vacation to Florida with my family for Christmas. As a family we decided on no presents this year and that our real present from my parents would be the trip itself. We ordered tickets in early October. About 40 days before our trip my wife had a big falling out with my sister and as a result my wife did want not go on the Christmas vacation. I did not want to go then either but my wife insisted saying "I don't want to be responsible for you not spending Christmas with you family." and I was one of 3 people that were suppose to drive the 20 hours to Florida so there were people who depended. Also at the time we thought it would be a good idea to get some space from each other.

Because I did not want her to waste a good plain ticket I suggested that she re-purpose it for another plain ticket. She and my mom both thought it was a great idea and she re-purposed it for a trip to New Orleans for a small fee. It was her hope that she could find a friend or family member go with her before her trip.

Since early this year we decided it would be best if I moved out. To sum up I was smothering her to death and being super over emotional (the thing that happened to her in September was really bad) while all she wanted was some space and privacy. Currently we are on VERY good terms and see a marriage counselor once a week. We still hang out together, go out for drinks and dinner, go shopping, and make love but I have my place and she has hers. I want this marriage to work and deep down I think she does too.

Her trip to New Orleans is now only a few weeks away and at this point she will be going by herself. For some reason, I am really worried about her going on this trip by herself. I would say 75% of it is me worrying about her safety and 25% of it is me worrying about her cheating on me.

Physically she has never cheated on me before and has never given me any reason to doubt her in that regard. However, about a week after we decided to live apart she had a video chat with someone she met that was of a sexual nature. She met this person through a Scrabble app she has on her smart phone. She confessed this to me soon after with details and sad that she has been hating herself for it ever since. I trust her when she says she did not enjoy it without me and that she will never do it again. We are both "online" people and are very liberal with our sex life with regards to the internet and pornography. Honestly if she had asked me ahead of time about it, more than likely I would have asked to watch. I was upset that she hid it from me but it wasn't a deal breaker.

Is my fear about my wife vacationing alone justified? 

How can I express my fears to her without basically saying "don't do anything stupid, don't trust strangers, and don't cheat on me"?

We have two counseling session before her trip. Is this something I should bring up in session before the trip, after, or in my solo session?

I am not a jealous guy and truly had these feelings. How can on convey them while at the same time showing my wife that deep down I trust her?


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## SomedayDig

I can see a married person going to Williamsburg, VA as a single.

New Orleans?! Not so much.


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## Shaggy

I'm shocked your MC hasn't told you this yet...

Healthy marriages do not include privacy.

So that's the first red flag here,

Shortly after you moving out she then uses that privacy to have cybersex.

I think you don't want to admit it , but your gut is very much connecting the dots here, and you know where it's leading. Btw New Orleans is not safe for a woman alone. Units not quite safe for a man alone. But I don't think she's planning on actually being alone.

I'm going to make a prediction here.

Months ago she are a connection with someone online.

She had a major falling out with your sister to give her a reason to stay home at Xmas.

She continued the online relationship and they at have met up during your trip.

She's continuing to escalate it with him, and getting you out is her test driving being single again.

She's planning on meet up with him on her trip.


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## terrence4159

:iagree: go with you gut i bet you she has a PA before 2 long


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## Wiserforit

All I know is that what is being said and what is going on are two very different things.


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## Anon Pink

Healthy marriages DO include privacy, because privacy is something negotiated.

I think, Cody, you are going to have to add some more details. Are you trying to avoid writing that your wife was raped in Sept? because that's what jumped into my mind. And if that is true, there is a whole lotta different perspective that is going on here and your typical marriage advice isn't going to be appropriate for this circumstance.


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## Dawn of Man

Whether she has a Plan A set in stone or not, you're certainly not it.


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## richie33

The story recently about the married woman from NY found dead in Syria I believe would stop me from my wife going alone. Very sad story, left behind a husband and two small children. Homeless drifter killed her while out taking pictures.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig

Anon Pink said:


> Healthy marriages DO include privacy, because privacy is something negotiated.


Only when it comes to toilet or female hygene.

What kind of privacy is negotiated?


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## tom67

SomedayDig said:


> Only when it comes to toilet or female hygene.
> 
> What kind of privacy is negotiated?


Is that like new math?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoodForNothing

richie33 said:


> The story recently about the married woman from NY found dead in Syria I believe would stop me from my wife going alone. Very sad story, left behind a husband and two small children. Homeless drifter killed her while out takeing pictures.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I've thought of this too when my wife has wanted to go on vacation with her friends, not even alone. But the husband in that case apparently knew that his wife wanted to cheat, said so, and she still went. I can imagine they fought quite a bit privately before he said anything publicly. 

What can OP and others do to prevent a spouse who wants to leave from leaving, if they've put their minds to it? Is saying, "If you go, don't come back" the only possible threat that would work? It wouldn't work for those of us who want to stay married I suppose. I don't know the answer, I guess I'm just thinking out loud.


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## Wiserforit

Cody1980 said:


> I am leaving out most of the details


yes, which makes it impossible to know what is really going on. This struck me as odd, for example:



> We ordered tickets in early October.... and I was one of 3 people that were suppose to drive the 20 hours to Florida so there were people who depended.


That doesn't make any sense to me. You ordered tickets, and yet you were driving.


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## Cubby

Cody1980 said:


> Her trip to New Orleans is now only a few weeks away and at this point she will be going by herself. For some reason, I am really worried about her going on this trip by herself. I would say 75% of it is me worrying about her safety and 25% of it is me worrying about her cheating on me.


It should be 5% worrying about her safety and 95% worrying about her cheating on you.


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## Entropy3000

Cody1980 said:


> I have read a few post regarding spouses going on vacation solo but nothing has been specific to my current situation. In general I feel that solo vacations can be healthy for a lot of relationships and that if people truly trust their spouse then they should not worry about them cheating.
> 
> Here is my current situation. I am leaving out most of the details but just know that I have been married for 3 years and VERY happily for 2 1/2. The last 6 months have been hard on us due to a HORRIBLE thing that happened to my wife in September that was completely out of our control.
> 
> Sooooo...
> 
> My wife and I were suppose to go on a big vacation to Florida with my family for Christmas. As a family we decided on no presents this year and that our real present from my parents would be the trip itself. We ordered tickets in early October. About 40 days before our trip my wife had a big falling out with my sister and as a result my wife did want not go on the Christmas vacation. I did not want to go then either but my wife insisted saying "I don't want to be responsible for you not spending Christmas with you family." and I was one of 3 people that were suppose to drive the 20 hours to Florida so there were people who depended. Also at the time we thought it would be a good idea to get some space from each other.
> 
> Because I did not want her to waste a good plain ticket I suggested that she re-purpose it for another plain ticket. She and my mom both thought it was a great idea and she re-purposed it for a trip to New Orleans for a small fee. It was her hope that she could find a friend or family member go with her before her trip.
> 
> Since early this year we decided it would be best if I moved out. To sum up I was smothering her to death and being super over emotional (the thing that happened to her in September was really bad) while all she wanted was some space and privacy. Currently we are on VERY good terms and see a marriage counselor once a week. We still hang out together, go out for drinks and dinner, go shopping, and make love but I have my place and she has hers. I want this marriage to work and deep down I think she does too.
> 
> Her trip to New Orleans is now only a few weeks away and at this point she will be going by herself. For some reason, I am really worried about her going on this trip by herself. I would say 75% of it is me worrying about her safety and 25% of it is me worrying about her cheating on me.
> 
> Physically she has never cheated on me before and has never given me any reason to doubt her in that regard. However, about a week after we decided to live apart she had a video chat with someone she met that was of a sexual nature. She met this person through a Scrabble app she has on her smart phone. She confessed this to me soon after with details and sad that she has been hating herself for it ever since. I trust her when she says she did not enjoy it without me and that she will never do it again. We are both "online" people and are very liberal with our sex life with regards to the internet and pornography. Honestly if she had asked me ahead of time about it, more than likely I would have asked to watch. I was upset that she hid it from me but it wasn't a deal breaker.
> 
> Is my fear about my wife vacationing alone justified?
> 
> How can I express my fears to her without basically saying "don't do anything stupid, don't trust strangers, and don't cheat on me"?
> 
> We have two counseling session before her trip. Is this something I should bring up in session before the trip, after, or in my solo session?
> 
> I am not a jealous guy and truly had these feelings. How can on convey them while at the same time showing my wife that deep down I trust her?


Cody, like a number of men on here they really try to drive home that they are not jealous, insecure or controlling. That marriage is about trust and they are just a really nice guy. I am nit sure who they seek validation from. Maybe they are conflict avoiders and say these things so they are not jumped on. They are fearful of being assertive and masculine. They have been programmed in a way to repress their feelings as a man. Idunno. YMMV. But they apologize for some reason about their feelings.

But you have taken this a bit further. You are the one who told your wife she should take a solo trip. Huh? Then you say New Orleans. Oh yeah that is a place I would encourage my wife to go to alone. With that said why would you encourage your wife to go alone to any city. Makes zero senze to me.

But this really is not so much about your wife. Why have you created this situation. Why are you afraid to be a man about this? Marriage is about love and respect. trust is a by product. Also is your nboundary only PIV sex. This keeps coming up on this forum. Trust me. I won't cheat. Like that is the only thing that matters. A marriage is a partnership. She should trust you to look out for her. And you her. We all get tunnel vision.

So the issue here is really on you. Neither my wife nor I go away to cities on vacation alone. The least reason not to is cheating.

Now you through in that teaser. That HORRIBLE thing. Right. Like that would not matter here.

Needing space is not a good thing. So you were driving and she was taking a plane?



> Since early this year we decided it would be best if I moved out. To sum up I was smothering her to death and being super over emotional (the thing that happened to her in September was really bad) while all she wanted was some space and privacy.


None of this sounds like a happy marriage. You decided to move out!? Space and privacy. Ok so forget this. Whatever September was. Rape, she killed somebody accidentally, you lost a child ... idunno. Does not matter. You either work on your marriage or you do not.



> Her trip to New Orleans is now only a few weeks away and at this point she will be going by herself. For some reason, I am really worried about her going on this trip by herself. I would say 75% of it is me worrying about her safety and 25% of it is me worrying about her cheating on me.


You need to move back home and the two of you need to go to New Oreleans or somewhere else. You need to fight for your marriage. I would be worried about my wife's safety first off. But you probably are right to worry that she is going to meet someone there. Why? Because all the rest of this is about her leaving you.

You left her alone at Christmas. What did she do then? I suspect the argument with your sister was contrived.



> Physically she has never cheated on me before and has never given me any reason to doubt her in that regard. However, about a week after we decided to live apart she had a video chat with someone she met that was of a sexual nature. She met this person through a Scrabble app she has on her smart phone. She confessed this to me soon after with details and sad that she has been hating herself for it ever since. I trust her when she says she did not enjoy it without me and that she will never do it again. We are both "online" people and are very liberal with our sex life with regards to the internet and pornography. Honestly if she had asked me ahead of time about it, more than likely I would have asked to watch. I was upset that she hid it from me but it wasn't a deal breaker.


Ok so she is already cheating on you. Yeah this sounds like she will hookup while away. But as I said cheating should not be the only boundary in a marriage.

The trip is a huge immediate issue but this while setup is absurd. You are not married to her right now. You were kicked out and she is seeking out other men. Stop being so weak.


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## Camarillo Brillo

Shaggy said:


> I'm shocked your MC hasn't told you this yet...
> 
> Healthy marriages do not include privacy.
> 
> So that's the first red flag here,
> 
> Shortly after you moving out she then uses that privacy to have cybersex.
> 
> I think you don't want to admit it , but your gut is very much connecting the dots here, and you know where it's leading. Btw New Orleans is not safe for a woman alone. Units not quite safe for a man alone. But I don't think she's planning on actually being alone.
> 
> I'm going to make a prediction here.
> 
> Months ago she are a connection with someone online.
> 
> She had a major falling out with your sister to give her a reason to stay home at Xmas.
> 
> She continued the online relationship and they at have met up during your trip.
> 
> She's continuing to escalate it with him, and getting you out is her test driving being single again.
> 
> She's planning on meet up with him on her trip.


This pretty much nails it. In the few months I've been on TAM I've read hundreds of threads and this one just seems to get played over and over again. Same Circus, different Clowns.


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## chillymorn

start making an exit plan!

and beat her to the punch!


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## Entropy3000

SomedayDig said:


> Only when it comes to toilet or female hygene.
> 
> What kind of privacy is negotiated?


Not every one is into strict monogamy.


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## Entropy3000

GoodForNothing said:


> Yes, I've thought of this too when my wife has wanted to go on vacation with her friends, not even alone. But the husband in that case apparently knew that his wife wanted to cheat, said so, and she still went. I can imagine they fought quite a bit privately before he said anything publicly.
> 
> What can OP and others do to prevent a spouse who wants to leave from leaving, if they've put their minds to it? Is saying, "If you go, don't come back" the only possible threat that would work? It wouldn't work for those of us who want to stay married I suppose. I don't know the answer, I guess I'm just thinking out loud.


You have to risk losing a partner sometimes to keep them. That is a hard pill to swallow and folks do not want to admit it. 

Frankly putting up with infidelity is NOT staying married. In the legal sense perhaps. But the marriage is dead. So if one wants a healthy alive marriage they have to make a stand before the horse is dead. Typically though people just watch it die and are afraid to save it for fear of losing it. Accepting the unacceptable does nothing good.

In his case he has already moved out and she has already moved on. Perhaps she sees hom as financial support and an FWB. Will he new lover insist this stop? Perhaps.

Are there children here? If not, sounds like half past time to move on if one is not going to engage.


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## SomedayDig

Entropy3000 said:


> Not every one is into strict monogamy.


Horrible point taken.


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## Cubby

Cody1980, if you're still reading this....your marriage is slipping away. Nothing good is going to come from your wife going on vacation alone. Nothing good is going to come from her having 'space.' She's just buying time until she knows for sure that she wants to leave you. It's the ol' monkey not letting go of one branch until it has a firm grip on another.

And now you're conflicted. You feel horrible because you correctly feel that your marriage is in danger, yet it's so clear that you're trying to be that trusting, non-controlling modern sensitive guy who's above being an "archaic domineering man" who doesn't ever tolerate his wife going out on her own.

Cody, you have to go with the old-school ways on this one.


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## naga75

Cubby said:


> Cody1980, if you're still reading this....your marriage is slipping away. Nothing good is going to come from your wife going on vacation alone. Nothing good is going to come from her having 'space.' She's just buying time until she knows for sure that she wants to leave you. It's the ol' monkey not letting go of one branch until it has a firm grip on another.
> 
> And now you're conflicted. You feel horrible because you correctly feel that your marriage is in danger, yet it's so clear that you're trying to be that trusting, non-controlling modern sensitive guy who's above being an archaic domineering man who doesn't ever tolerate his wife going out on her own.
> 
> Cody, you have to go with the old-school ways on this one.



:iagree:

and being firm on what you will or will not tolerate in your marriage is not domineering. no matter what modern men are "supposed" to be like.


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## Cubby

naga75 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> and being firm on what you will or will not tolerate in your marriage is not domineering. no matter what modern men are "supposed" to be like.


:iagree: That's true. Unfortunately, it's been programmed into so many men's minds that they're terrified to be firm.

It's really quite simple. Being firm on what you will or will not tolerate is being a man who respects himself. It's an attractive quality. Period.


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## Cody1980

Ok, so apparently I left out a few too many details so I want to clarify a few things

#1 The incident that happened to my wife in Sept was classified as a sexual assault and robbery (they stole her purse, wedding ring, and all jewelery). It's a long story and I really don't want to go into it. Just know that my wife's only mistakes that night were trusting a stranger and staying out by herself after her friends left at 1:30am. The doctors believe she was drugged as her blood alcohol content was VERY close to death. She remembers very little of it and isn't 100% sure if she was even penetrated or not. The rape kit showed all the signs of a typical forced rape and she had to take all kinds of HIV prevention meds (which would have cost about $10k is we didn't get a voucher from the state of Illinois).

#2 Some of you figured this out already but for my family Christmas vacation the guys were driving and the girls were flying.

#3 I did not suggest that she go to New Orleans. I simply suggested that she re-purpose the ticket so that it wouldn't be wasted. I was hoping maybe we would go on the new trip together or at least she would have a friend or family with her. She picked New Orleans because she is a major foodie and because her mom goes there a lot a wanted to go with her.

#4 Shaggy, Entropy 300, and others. I am not deluded enough to believe that there is a 0% chance she has cheated on me. But I am pretty dam sure there is nothing physical going on. First off she has had full disclosure with me regarding the video sex incident. She didn't have to and I never would have found out otherwise. Also, the guy is clearly from Sweden (in fact all of her online fiends are from over seas) so I'm not worried about a close encounter. Finally, I do trust her when she says there is no one else. At this point I have to, if she's totally lying to me, then I'm a way bigger fool than I thought and she is not the same person I married.

#5 For those of you that think my wife is planning to meet someone on this trip. Originally she was going on the trip with her mom on 2/22. She had to reschedule it for a month later due to lack of funds (this was my idea).

#6 We have no children and don't plan on having them. Which is the main reason my mom doesn't always like her. Even though I have flat out told her that I don't want kids either.

#7 Finally, I can look at the situation in two ways. My wife is telling me the truth or she has been lying to me about super serious, deal breaker stuff, for the past 3 months. Which way would you choose?

I hope that answers some of your questions concerns. Now I think I should add a few more details...

-My wife graduated just in Dec and is currently looking for work. She has her own graphic design business and the student loans help but for the last 2 years I have been paying 90% of the bills. Am I afraid that she is just holding on until she can support herself? You bet your ass. We have discussed this in counseling and she assures me that is not the case. Although she did say that it makes her feel a little trapped.

-Having one of us move out was initially her idea but I did agree to it and I still think it was a good idea. I made this decision because saw how me going on vacation for Christmas without her helped. The reason I moved out is because she, literally, has no place to go. She no money, no car, and no family in the area while I have a couple of VERY close friends a couple of block away from our house. I'm not saying I'm super happy about it but it makes the most since and not to be macho or old fashion but I kinda think it's the mans place to leave. Also we were planning

-Recently my wife has lost a lot of weight. This caused her to be more confident and outgoing while at the same time I noticed her need to depend on me was getting less and less. I know this has had an impact our marriage. Specifically she told me she would not have stayed in the bar a lone the night of her assault.

-I should also note that we have only been two 2 marriage counseling sessions so far but we have appointments planned for the next month or so. Also along those same lines before we had are first session we had planned on moving back in together. It was my wife that asked me to move back in, while I was happy, I was surprised to find that I was a little hesitant about it. We had our first session a few days after and it was the marriage counselor that suggested we not move back in yet. Basically saying that "things are getting better, don't rush them". 

One thing I have to give a lot of you credit for is calling me out on being a man. I totally need to man up. It's something my counselor has asked me to work on. Basically the need to be more confident, less emotional, and in general to stick up for myself. It's hard for me to do as I feel I am walking on eggshells around her. My wife understands that the reason I'm not the same person has everything to do with our situation but she definitely misses the old me, as do I. I am afraid that if I am too firm with her it will push her away. 

For example, can I just say to her "I want you to have a good time on the trip and I trust but I want you to be safe. Stay in the safe / public areas, don't let anyone into your room, and don't go into anyone else room."

Another thing this post points out to me it that I spend a lot of time defending my wife's actions. Not only here, but to my friends and family. Its not something totally new to me as my friends and family have never really warmed up to my wife. They see a different side to her than I do. Lately I have been much better at this by simply leaving them out of it. They are way too biased to give me any good advice. Why do I have to defend her so much? Am I convincing others or myself? 

I love my wife and I know she loves me. I'm just not sure if she is IN love with me (and I am starting to feel the same way). We talk every day, we hug, we depend on each other for emotional support. We laugh and cry together, we go on dates, and we still make love. We where the type where everyone thought "wow, you guys really have a good relationship".

Right now she says she doesn't know what she wants, that she doesn't feel that she deserves me or to be happy, and that she needs space to make the right decision. Unfortunately for me, I don't work that way. I know that what I want is her. In relationships I'm either 100% in or I'm out. I just hope she can make up her own mind before she makes up mine for me.

If I have to walk away I can hold my head up high knowing i did everything I could to make this work. In the end I know she will regret losing me I just hope she figures that out sooner than later.


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## Anon Pink

Entropy3000 said:


> Not every one is into strict monogamy.


You know Entropy, I kind of resent that. Maybe I'm off base and please correct me if I'm wrong but this seems to be an insinuation directed toward me that my marriage is not monogamous based on your judgement about my GNOs and the level of privacy in my marriage. Considering the comment you are responding to is a comment that was made in response to me comment, it really does appear that your above statement was directed at me.

I think Ive been respectful of you and your opinions, even though I disagree and I'd like the same respect returned. If this is not in your power please add me to your blocked list.


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## MrK

Cody1980 said:


> Just know that my wife's only mistakes that night were trusting a stranger and staying out by herself after her friends left at 1:30am.
> 
> -Recently my wife has lost a lot of weight...Specifically she told me she would not have stayed in the bar a lone the night of her assault.


Why did she stay after her friends left. What was her intent with this kind stranger?

She loses weight and goes trolling for men?

Sex Skyping a stranger.

And she chooses New Orleans for her single vacation. Can you say PARTY TIME!!?


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## Cubby

Cody- If you read enough of the stories here on this forum, you'll soon find out that there's a 'script.' They call it the cheater's script. I still find it astonishing as to how predictable it is. A major part of the script is that when a wife wants space, or says a variation of the I love you, but not in love with you line, it's almost always (95 percent, at least) because there's another man involved.

And almost always (again about 95 percent) the betrayed spouse just can't believe it when he finds out his wife could be capable of such betrayal. For some reason, even though infidelity statistics are so high, and everyone knows that fact, when it happens to you, it still comes as such a shock. Maybe we all think our marriages are different, are special, or we have a special relationship with our spouses. I don't know.

I'm not going to accuse your wife of having an affair, but in light of your situation and what I've pointed out, it's worth undergoing a thorough investigation to make things more clear to you.


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## totamm

Your wife told you that she was sexually assaulted by a guy she met at a bar although her recollection is hazy because she was very drunk. She was alone with him by her own choice and things either turned bad, and he forced himself on her, or they had sex, she regretted it afterwards, and her story is mostly a cover up. I'm leaning towards the latter.

No matter how you dice it and slice it, she was alone with a guy, in a vulnerable position, very drunk, in the middle of the night and nobody put her there but her.

She's cheated on you, is considering cheating on you, or is going to cheat on you.

My opinion only, of course.


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## Anon Pink

I thought it was a sexual assault.

What concerns me first, is the way you begin this admission by stating it wasn't her fault? So yeah, are you trying to convince yourself that this is true? Because, as I'm sure you've been told, even as much as you may try to hide it, if there is even a little part of you that blames her, you may as well build a brick wall between the two of you.

The issues in your relationship of highly complicated by her sexual assault. Coping with and healing from that trauma are not always relationship friendly. Essentially, she has to do what she has to do and you may not like it at all but if she feels she has to do this... Your support may make a difference in your relationship.

I personally, disagree with the MC about moving back in together to work this out. I can see only one reason why a MC would suggest this and you're not going to like the reason.

If your wife has told the MC in a private session that she intends to end the relationship, or that she feels unsafe with you around, the MC has a duty to both parties at the same time, in other words the marriage itself which is made up of two parties, to advocate for healthier actions behaviors that lead to healthier participants that lead to a healthier marriage. The short of it is, outside of her feeling unsafe with you, she has most likely indicated she intends to end the relationship.

Having said that.. There is no way to know why the MC actually suggested not moving back in together until they give up that information. "Not to rush things." Doesn't seem a good enough reason unless there are per things happening that you haven't written about in your posts.

If she absolutely firmly feels a solo trip is what she wants, my advice is to support it, once you two have agreed upon safety checks and itinerary.


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## naga75

If someone was sexually assaulted after being in a bar all night...
I dont really understand WHY that person would want to go to new orleans by themselves. 
NO is basically one giant bar.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## totamm

naga75 said:


> If someone was sexually assaulted after being in a bar all night...
> I dont really understand WHY that person would want to go to new orleans by themselves.
> NO is basically one giant bar.


Excellent point. 

The woman was raped and she's off to a party city by herself?

Read between the lines.


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## Cody1980

MrK said:


> Why did she stay after her friends left. What was her intent with this kind stranger?
> 
> She loses weight and goes trolling for men?
> 
> Sex Skyping a stranger.
> 
> And she chooses New Orleans for her single vacation. Can you say PARTY TIME!!?


I have thought some of those same things. 

With the New Orleans thing... She is NOT a "party girl" and has mentioned to me on several occasions that she wanted to travel to NO. For the food, not for the partying. We almost went there on our honeymoon.

No matter how many bad decisions she made that night she has paid for those mistakes. While I don't think she was "trolling" for men I do know she has been enjoying the attention she's been getting.

On that note, she did not ask for or deserve what she got that night. Also she did ask me to go out with her. I was half asleep and too drunk from tail gating all day. If I was with her none of it would have happened. It has taken me a LONG time to get over that guilt and is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life.


----------



## Wiserforit

Cody1980 said:


> #1 The incident that happened to my wife in Sept was classified as a sexual assault and robbery (they stole her purse, wedding ring, and all jewelery). It's a long story and I really don't want to go into it. Just know that my wife's only mistakes that night were trusting a stranger and staying out by herself after her friends left at 1:30am.
> 
> Why do I have to defend her so much? Am I convincing others or myself?
> 
> .


You misled us. Because you are lying to yourself. You told us that the incident was not her fault, and no it isn't a long story. It's just that you don't want to face it.

It wasn't just misleading us about her drinking in bars alone, but that her distancing herself started after this incident instead of before.

Her fault was stepping out on her husband, drinking in a place where there are just these kinds of risks, and obviously making a bad decision with this guy, like namely going with him. If that isn't a boundary she crossed then you don't have any boundaries. 

You said you are afraid if you man up then it will push her away. So what. This kind of woman is not worth keeping if you have any self-respect. Look at what her behavior cost you.


----------



## Cubby

totamm said:


> Excellent point.
> 
> The woman was raped and she's off to a party city by herself?
> 
> Read between the lines.


Where would be the last place on earth a woman who was sexually assaulted while being alone at a bar would want to be if she were going alone? Answer: A bar. And to be more specific, a bar in New Orleans!


----------



## totamm

Cody1980 said:


> She is NOT a "party girl" and has mentioned to me on several occasions that she wanted to travel to NO. For the food, not for the partying.


So she's just going to sit there by herself in restaurants and eat all day long?



Cody1980 said:


> While I don't think she was "trolling" for men I do know she has been enjoying the attention she's been getting.


She was alone, with a guy, in a vulnerable position, drunk, in the middle of the night. What part about her looking to pick up a guy don't you get?



Cody1980 said:


> On that note, she did not ask for or deserve what she got that night. Also she did ask me to go out with her. I was half asleep and too drunk from tail gating all day. If I was with her none of it would have happened. It has taken me a LONG time to get over that guilt and is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life.


It's not your fault that since you decided you weren't up for going out, she decided to put herself in a position where she was.. alone with a guy, drunk, in a vulnerable position, in the middle of the night.

You're doing this novel sort of "self blameshifting" thing, where, instead of acknowledging the likely truth, you completely bury it and make it all your fault.

Yet, deep inside, you know better. You can't lie to yourself.


----------



## Anon Pink

Cody, please ignore everything written here by these angry, suspicious, bitter, spiteful and vengeful men. They haven't got a single clue what they are talking about with regards to the rape. Furthermore, their anger and bitterness about their own situations, as communicated in their hurtful, hateful accusations about your wife will do nothing but poison you as you attempt to cope with the rape.

I suggest you seek support elsewhere since you are not likely to get real support here.


----------



## Cody1980

naga75 said:


> If someone was sexually assaulted after being in a bar all night...
> I dont really understand WHY that person would want to go to new orleans by themselves.
> NO is basically one giant bar.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





totamm said:


> Excellent point.
> 
> The woman was raped and she's off to a party city by herself?
> 
> Read between the lines.


First off, and for about the 5th time. She is a foodie. She is going to NO for the food and sights not for the partying. Also because her mom goes there regularly and was planning on being there with her. If she is lying to me about these fundamental things than I am a huge fool, have much bigger problems, and might as well ends things today.

No back to the incident or her sexual assault. It had an opposite effect that her or I ever expected. She is WAY more reckless and brave after the event. From pushing my buttons to the limit, to going on walks at night by herself, to drinking way too much, and getting several speeding tickets. She almost rolled our car and has been all about breaking the law lately.

Also, our sex life took a weird turn and got A LOT more physical than it ever had been before. Something we both think is very weird. During, she will be loving the physicality of it one minute and be crying the next.

She sees it as well and knows that she is out of control. Yet other reason why she wanted space from me saying "I'm not good for you" or "i don't want to bring you down with me".

Here I go defending her again. The point is the situation seriously F ed her up. We can both see that. Whether or not she made a million mistakes that night or not and whether her behavior after isn't how I (or you or anyone else) think it should be is irrelevant. What was done to her was absolutely horrible and she didn't ask for it.

I did not make this post to discuss what happened 6 months ago. I have dealt and are still dealing with it.

I would ask everyone to please focus on my current situation. Keep in mind that any advise or questions you may have about it has probably already crossed my mind.

Also, I know that this issue might be something that I can never come to turns with. I hope that is not the case but I am realistic enough to know it's a possibility.


----------



## SomedayDig

Anon Pink said:


> Cody, please ignore everything written here by these angry, suspicious, bitter, spiteful and vengeful men. They haven't got a single clue what they are talking about with regards to the rape. Furthermore, their anger and bitterness about their own situations, as communicated in their hurtful, hateful accusations about your wife will do nothing but poison you as you attempt to cope with the rape.
> 
> I suggest you seek support elsewhere since you are not likely to get real support here.


Ya know...you shouldn't lump everyone into a sack of your own projections. I know I'm not bitter, but I simply believe I see a particular font on the wall.

I suggest the OP take off any blinders he may have on and look at this for what it is.

His wife wants to go to New Orleans solo...after what happened in the past even. 

Not cool.


----------



## Cubby

Anon Pink said:


> Cody, please ignore everything written here by these angry, suspicious, bitter, spiteful and vengeful men. They haven't got a single clue what they are talking about with regards to the rape. Furthermore, their anger and bitterness about their own situations, as communicated in their hurtful, hateful accusations about your wife will do nothing but poison you as you attempt to cope with the rape.
> 
> I suggest you seek support elsewhere since you are not likely to get real support here.


While I'm reading this, I'm thinking of the numerous betrayed spouses who gave heartfelt thanks to the advice they received including advice what you would call "hurtful, hateful accusations" about their spouses.

Cody's getting a much-needed dose of tough love. The poor guy's marriage is drifting away. The best advice he'll ever get is here.


----------



## SomedayDig

Cody1980 said:


> *Physically she has never cheated on me before and has never given me any reason to doubt her in that regard. However, about a week after we decided to live apart she had a video chat with someone she met that was of a sexual nature.*
> 
> Is my fear about my wife vacationing alone justified?
> 
> How can I express my fears to her without basically saying "don't do anything stupid, don't trust strangers, and don't cheat on me"?
> 
> We have two counseling session before her trip. Is this something I should bring up in session before the trip, after, or in my solo session?
> 
> I am not a jealous guy and truly had these feelings. How can on convey them while at the same time showing my wife that deep down I trust her?


(Editing done by me)

From your first post read the bold print.

Then read the rest. There's a reason you're posting here and I have a slight feeling it's not because you're totally down with her going to New Orleans.


----------



## totamm

Cody1980 said:


> Also because her mom goes there regularly and was planning on being there with her.


*WTF???????????*

The title of this thread is "Wife going on vacation Solo"

Your first post says this:



Cody1980 said:


> I have read a few post regarding spouses going on vacation solo but nothing has been specific to my current situation. In general I feel that solo vacations can be healthy for a lot of relationships and that if people truly trust their spouse then they should not worry about them cheating.
> 
> Her trip to New Orleans is now only a few weeks away and at this point she will be going by herself. For some reason, I am really worried about her going on this trip by herself.
> 
> Is my fear about my wife vacationing alone justified?


Now you say she's going with her mother??????

That's not "going alone" or "going solo".

If her mom is there WITH HER, its a completely different scenario than you described or implied. 

This entire thread is a waste of time.


----------



## Anon Pink

SomedayDig said:


> Ya know...you shouldn't lump everyone into a sack of your own projections. I know I'm not bitter, but I simply believe I see a particular font on the wall.
> 
> I suggest the OP take off any blinders he may have on and look at this for what it is.
> 
> His wife wants to go to New Orleans solo...after what happened in the past even.
> 
> Not cool.


Point taken with regard to not lumping everyone into the same sac. My apologies.

However, these replies only demonstrate a total lack of understand the trauma and recovery of a rape victim. Reckless behavior, even purposely putting themselves at risk once again, are typical. 

As Cody attempts to get his own heart in order to deal with the rape, the VERY LAST thing he needs, are the replies he is currently getting.


----------



## Cody1980

totamm said:


> *WTF???????????*
> 
> The title of this thread is "Wife going on vacation Solo"
> 
> Your first post says this:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you say she's going with her mother??????
> 
> That's not "going alone" or "going solo".
> 
> If her mom is there WITH HER, its a completely different scenario than you described or implied.
> 
> This entire thread is a waste of time.


Sorry about the confusion. To clarify she originally planned here trip with the idea that someone was going with her. She did not want to go solo.

He original trip was for late Feb. and her mom was set to go with her (she lives in Texas and was willing to drive. She had to postpone it due to lack of funds. She wanted to use our tax return and not just have me pay for the whole (which I respect). It was rescheduled for late March and her mom is not going to be able to take time off then the meet her there.

I hope that clears that up.

Furthermore I'd ask people to stick to the topic at hand and please stop focusing on my wife rape. Until you have a police officer tell you "you wife has been sexually assaulted" or you wife hugs you so hard her fingernails dig huge gashes into you back that you need butterfly stitches you have no idea what it is like. I completely understand your anger, believe me.

Also, I know I have some blinders on, that fact is I love the crap out of her, more than anyone or anything. I simply can't look at the dark side all the time. Unfortunately I am getting there. Each day I get less sad and more and more angrier and frustrated.

The funny thing is the more I pull away the more is seems she is drawn to me.

So......

I have a session next week and I need some advice on how to discuss my concerns for her upcoming trip. Forget about the why and the back story for now.


----------



## Cody1980

Anon Pink said:


> Point taken with regard to not lumping everyone into the same sac. My apologies.
> 
> However, these replies only demonstrate a total lack of understand the trauma and recovery of a rape victim. Reckless behavior, even purposely putting themselves at risk once again, are typical.
> 
> As Cody attempts to get his own heart in order to deal with the rape, the VERY LAST thing he needs, are the replies he is currently getting.


Thank you very much for your reply. 

I understand this issue is a hot button item for people. But I really want them to focus on my original post.


----------



## naga75

> She is WAY more reckless and brave after the event. From pushing my buttons to the limit, to going on walks at night by herself, to drinking way too much, and getting several speeding tickets. She almost rolled our car and has been all about breaking the law lately.


this is why you SHOULD be uneasy about her trip.
and yes, i think you should bring it up in yalls MC session.


----------



## btdt

Cody1980 said:


> First off, and for about the 5th time. She is a foodie. She is going to NO for the food and sights not for the partying. Also because her mom goes there regularly and was planning on being there with her. If she is lying to me about these fundamental things than I am a huge fool, have much bigger problems, and might as well ends things today.
> 
> No back to the incident or her sexual assault. It had an opposite effect that her or I ever expected. She is WAY more reckless and brave after the event. From pushing my buttons to the limit, to going on walks at night by herself, to drinking way too much, and getting several speeding tickets. She almost rolled our car and has been all about breaking the law lately.
> 
> Also, our sex life took a weird turn and got A LOT more physical than it ever had been before. Something we both think is very weird. During, she will be loving the physicality of it one minute and be crying the next.
> 
> She sees it as well and knows that she is out of control. Yet other reason why she wanted space from me saying "I'm not good for you" or "i don't want to bring you down with me".
> 
> Here I go defending her again. The point is the situation seriously F ed her up. We can both see that. Whether or not she made a million mistakes that night or not and whether her behavior after isn't how I (or you or anyone else) think it should be is irrelevant. What was done to her was absolutely horrible and she didn't ask for it.
> 
> I did not make this post to discuss what happened 6 months ago. I have dealt and are still dealing with it.
> 
> I would ask everyone to please focus on my current situation. Keep in mind that any advise or questions you may have about it has probably already crossed my mind.
> 
> Also, I know that this issue might be something that I can never come to turns with. I hope that is not the case but I am realistic enough to know it's a possibility.


A couple of thoughts..,

If she's engaging in reckless activity like you described above, then there is a strong likelihood that she's going to put herself in a similar situation while in NO. She may not be a party girl but she might intentionally put herself in that type of environment for the danger she seems to be seeking.

Second, if she's looking to engage in risky thrill-seeking activity, a ONS in NO would certainly qualify.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cubby

Cody1980 said:


> The funny thing is the more I pull away the more is seems she is drawn to me.


That's also part of the script. Yeah, it seems weird, doesn't it? You mentioned before you're afraid if you get too tough and firm you'll push her away. Yet, it looks like you've gotten glimpses where she's more attracted to your indifference.

That's why you're getting advice to not put up with her need for space. The more you act needy and sullen and sad about your situation, the more she's repelled by you. If your demeanor shows that you have no problem with being single, she's more likely to want to be with you. It's her biological wiring I suppose.


----------



## Jasel

Cubby said:


> That's why you're getting advice to not put up with her need for space. The more you act needy and sullen and sad about your situation, the more she's repelled by you. If your demeanor shows that you have no problem with being single, she's more likely to want to be with you. It's her biological wiring I suppose.


Women, IMO anyway, always seem more interested the less available you are, appear to be, or should be.


----------



## Cody1980

Cubby said:


> That's also part of the script. Yeah, it seems weird, doesn't it? You mentioned before you're afraid if you get too tough and firm you'll push her away. Yet, it looks like you've gotten glimpses where she's more attracted to your indifference.
> 
> That's why you're getting advice to not put up with her need for space. The more you act needy and sullen and sad about your situation, the more she's repelled by you. If your demeanor shows that you have no problem with being single, she's more likely to want to be with you. It's her biological wiring I suppose.





Jasel said:


> Women, IMO anyway, always seem more interested the less available you are, appear to be, or should be.


Thanks, this helps and has basically been my motto for the last months. It feels wrong and is difficult be it is truly working.

I had a couple days of weakness after she showed me a lot of affection and it was a set back. The quote "(she) always seem more interested the less available you are" describes my situation very closely.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cubby said:


> :iagree: That's true. Unfortunately, it's been programmed into so many men's minds that they're terrified to be firm.
> 
> It's really quite simple. *Being firm on what you will or will not tolerate is being a man who respects himself. It's an attractive quality. Period.*


I contend this is the NEW modern man. The weak doormat guy is outdated.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Cody1980 said:


> I have thought some of those same things.
> 
> With the New Orleans thing... She is NOT a "party girl" and has mentioned to me on several occasions that she wanted to travel to NO. For the food, not for the partying.



I find it strange that she just lost a bunch of weight and is going someplace because of the food!

It is terrible what ended up happening to her. It was a very poor decision to stay there alone so late. I can't think of an innocent reason for her to do so.

Doesn't make sense that she would want to go anywhere alone after being sexually assaulted. People have a hard time going alone to get groceries in their own town after such an event. Flying to a city all alone. Wouldn't happen.

Planes fly from Sweden to New Orleans!

I think you should tell her you booked a flight to New Orleans and that you are joining her. You are doing this because you are worried about what happened to her when she was alone in the bar. Her reaction will give a good indication if she is up to no good.


----------



## karole

Cody, Can't you just book a flight and go with her? I also have a very hard time understanding how she could go to NO by herself after what she has been through.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> Not every one is into strict monogamy.


:lol:
Thanks for the reminder!


----------



## Jasel

Cody1980 said:


> Thanks, this helps and has basically been my motto for the last months. It feels wrong and is difficult be it is truly working.
> 
> I had a couple days of weakness after she showed me a lot of affection and it was a set back. The quote "(she) always seem more interested the less available you are" describes my situation very closely.


Unfortunately society tells men these days a lot of things about women that simply aren't true. It also doesn't help that a lot of women do the exact same thing. If you have relationship trouble with women, get advice from men. It's not about hearing what women say what works and what THEY think works, it's about observing and taking note of what actually DOES work. A lot of men out there need some serious de-progamming.

And no you should not be comfortable with her taking a trip by herself to NO btw.


----------



## arbitrator

While we were married, my wealthy STBXW, often "vacationed on business" in Europe, Asia, the Carribbean, and Hawaii, without me.
But she was always with a female friend and business associate whose business that STBXW was financially investing in.

The only real vacation that we ever took together, and then that was with my youngest HS aged son, was to the Southern U. S. roughly two years prior to our separation. She had always said that she wanted to take me with her to the U.K. and London, but that never got around to happening.

New Orleans~ not exactly a place for a married person to go solo. After all, and as I later discovered post-separation, The Big Easy was also the favorite meet-up point for her and her lardass boyfriend!

IMHO, if one-half of a married couple is embarking on a trip to N.O., then there is just way too much going on there for couples, that could richly cause any jaded or flirty married person, of either sex, to fastly stray!


----------



## terrence4159

i cant give good advice cody i cant, all i can say is when people here have given you advice you dont want to hear you attack them. the fact of the matter is 99% of the time when a married person wants space or seperation there is ANOTHER person in their life and you have become plan b and they will explore plan a to see if its better if not then they fall back on lan b UNTIL something better comes along


----------



## Entropy3000

Cody1980;1490406
#1 The incident that happened to my wife in Sept was classified as a sexual assault and robbery (they stole her purse said:


> All the greater reason for you to be closer.
> You were not supposed to abandon her. You do not let a raped woman go to N.O. alone.[/B]
> 
> #2 Some of you figured this out already but for my family Christmas vacation the guys were driving and the girls were flying.
> 
> *Right.*
> 
> #3 I did not suggest that she go to New Orleans. I simply suggested that she re-purpose the ticket so that it wouldn't be wasted. I was hoping maybe we would go on the new trip together or at least she would have a friend or family with her. She picked New Orleans because she is a major foodie and because her mom goes there a lot a wanted to go with her.
> 
> *You messed up here. Big time. Sje should have arranged to go with her period. You are not helpless.*
> 
> #4 Shaggy, Entropy 300, and others. I am not deluded enough to believe that there is a 0% chance she has cheated on me.
> 
> *No this is wacko. Again what does cheated mean? The is 0% chance that she has not been unfaithful. Perhaps she cheated physically too.
> *
> But I am pretty dam sure there is nothing physical going on.
> 
> *Because your mind wants to the believe this.* *You moved out.*
> 
> First off she has had full disclosure with me regarding the video sex incident. She didn't have to and I never would have found out otherwise. Also, the guy is clearly from Sweden (in fact all of her online fiends are from over seas) so I'm not worried about a close encounter. Finally, I do trust her when she says there is no one else. At this point I have to, if she's totally lying to me, then I'm a way bigger fool than I thought and she is not the same person I married.
> 
> #5 For those of you that think my wife is planning to meet someone on this trip. Originally she was going on the trip with her mom on 2/22. She had to reschedule it for a month later due to lack of funds (this was my idea).
> 
> *Why are you not going with her?* *Who are you trying to convince. You are letting your wife who was raped go to N.O. without you after she was unfaithful to you.*
> 
> #6 We have no children and don't plan on having them. Which is the main reason my mom doesn't always like her. Even though I have flat out told her that I don't want kids either.
> 
> #7 Finally, I can look at the situation in two ways. My wife is telling me the truth or she has been lying to me about super serious, deal breaker stuff, for the past 3 months. Which way would you choose?
> 
> *She has been unfaithful to you and done everything in her power to separate from you. I never would have been where you are as I would not have moved out and I certainly would not have been down with this trip.*
> 
> I hope that answers some of your questions concerns. Now I think I should add a few more details...
> 
> -My wife graduated just in Dec and is currently looking for work. She has her own graphic design business and the student loans help but for the last 2 years I have been paying 90% of the bills. Am I afraid that she is just holding on until she can support herself? You bet your ass. We have discussed this in counseling and she assures me that is not the case. Although she did say that it makes her feel a little trapped.
> 
> -Having one of us move out was initially her idea
> 
> *No doubt whatsoever.*
> 
> but I did agree to it and I still think it was a good idea.
> 
> *Wondermous. Look how well this is going.
> *
> I made this decision because saw how me going on vacation for Christmas without her helped.
> 
> *I bet it did. You were gone. Perhaps out of the way. I bet she glowed when you came home.*
> 
> The reason I moved out is because she, literally, has no place to go. She no money, no car, and no family in the area while I have a couple of VERY close friends a couple of block away from our house. I'm not saying I'm super happy about it but it makes the most since and not to be macho or old fashion but I kinda think it's the mans place to leave. Also we were planning
> 
> *I guess it is the mans place to move on then.*
> 
> -Recently my wife has lost a lot of weight. This caused her to be more confident and outgoing while at the same time I noticed her need to depend on me was getting less and less. I know this has had an impact our marriage. Specifically she told me she would not have stayed in the bar a lone the night of her assault.
> 
> *Messed up. The fact a drunk woman can be drugged and raped is another reason why wives should not be hanging in bars late at night without their husband.*
> 
> -I should also note that we have only been two 2 marriage counseling sessions so far but we have appointments planned for the next month or so. Also along those same lines before we had are first session we had planned on moving back in together. It was my wife that asked me to move back in, while I was happy, I was surprised to find that I was a little hesitant about it. We had our first session a few days after and it was the marriage counselor that suggested we not move back in yet. Basically saying that "things are getting better, don't rush them".
> 
> One thing I have to give a lot of you credit for is calling me out on being a man. I totally need to man up. It's something my counselor has asked me to work on. Basically the need to be more confident, less emotional, and in general to stick up for myself. It's hard for me to do as I feel I am walking on eggshells around her. My wife understands that the reason I'm not the same person has everything to do with our situation but she definitely misses the old me, as do I. I am afraid that if I am too firm with her it will push her away.
> 
> *Yoo bad you waited so long to come here.*
> 
> For example, can I just say to her "I want you to have a good time on the trip and I trust but I want you to be safe. Stay in the safe / public areas, don't let anyone into your room, and don't go into anyone else room."
> *
> No. You should tell her you are going too. Period.*
> 
> Another thing this post points out to me it that I spend a lot of time defending my wife's actions. Not only here, but to my friends and family. Its not something totally new to me as my friends and family have never really warmed up to my wife. They see a different side to her than I do. Lately I have been much better at this by simply leaving them out of it. They are way too biased to give me any good advice. Why do I have to defend her so much? Am I convincing others or myself?
> 
> I love my wife and I know she loves me.
> I'm just not sure if she is IN love with me (and I am starting to feel the same way). We talk every day, we hug, we depend on each other for emotional support. We laugh and cry together, we go on dates, and we still make love. We where the type where everyone thought "wow, you guys really have a good relationship".
> 
> Right now she says she doesn't know what she wants, that she doesn't feel that she deserves me or to be happy, and that she needs space to make the right decision. Unfortunately for me, I don't work that way. I know that what I want is her. In relationships I'm either 100% in or I'm out. I just hope she can make up her own mind before she makes up mine for me.
> 
> If I have to walk away I can hold my head up high knowing i did everything I could to make this work. In the end I know she will regret losing me I just hope she figures that out sooner than later.


----------



## Entropy3000

Anon Pink said:


> You know Entropy, I kind of resent that. Maybe I'm off base and please correct me if I'm wrong but this seems to be an insinuation directed toward me that my marriage is not monogamous based on your judgement about my GNOs and the level of privacy in my marriage. Considering the comment you are responding to is a comment that was made in response to me comment, it really does appear that your above statement was directed at me.
> 
> I think Ive been respectful of you and your opinions, even though I disagree and I'd like the same respect returned. If this is not in your power please add me to your blocked list.


Not everyone follows a strict monogamous relationship.

Every marriage has some level of openess. Radical monogamy is even more conservative.

Strict monogamy would not have room for GNOs with other men. I do think strict monogamy would still allow for GNOs. These are shades of gray.

But you do push very hard for the right for women to take a break from their marriage and flirt and be with other men. A lot of women on here feel this way. I am not saying you are not monogamous. You are more liberal about your boundaries than those who are strict. My point in my comment is that not all people subscribe to strict monogamous boundaries.


----------



## Entropy3000

MrK said:


> Why did she stay after her friends left. What was her intent with this kind stranger?
> 
> She loses weight and goes trolling for men?
> 
> Sex Skyping a stranger.
> 
> And she chooses New Orleans for her single vacation. Can you say PARTY TIME!!?


First off this thread comes with the danger of baiting people into critisizing a rape victim.

I do think the evidence provided in her choices says her life style had already started to move in a non marriage friendly way. Very possibly her encounter turned nasty. Maybe she said no and he said yes.

I do not believe a married woman should have put herself in harms way like this. Self destructive.

Yes she has chosen the Party Wife motif.

But the OP person has taken himself out of the game. She is pushing him out.


----------



## totamm

Ok, got it. Mom was originally going to go with her, now she's going alone, you're convinced her intentions are completely honorable, she's never cheated on you and she's not going to cheat on you (the sexting on SKPE not withstanding). Her crazy behavior of late is completely out of character and is a result of a very unfortunate incident that occurred a few months ago that she has yet to come to terms with and it's not her fault, even though she was alone in a bar with a guy at 1:30 in the morning long after her friends went home. It's completely on you that it happened in the first place and you feel terribly guilty about that which is why you are not pressing the issue of her going alone to New Orleans because of the great food.

If nothing else, put a VAR under her airplane seat.


----------



## Cody1980

Lots of good ideas people.

Part of the reason I am liking the marriage counseling is because he is not invested in our relationship. That is why I am here. Some advice I will take some I won't but for the most part it is all constructive.

I think I will bring up the idea of me going with her in our next MC session and see how it plays out. At least it will be a nice segue into discussing my concerns about the trip.

Also (and I think someone mentioned this before) her response to her sexual assault is way more typical then you think. In fact I, like you, thought it would have the exact opposite effect on her (i figured she would be more timid and scared, then being brave and outright reckless) I/we have done a lot of research on the subject and her response is WAY more common than I ever would have guessed.

I should also, mention that we have been talking with a rape advocate about once a month since this happened and she also said this type of response is very common. I'm not saying you are all wrong, some women do have the type of reaction you would expect but not all of them.

I cite one of my favorite movies the Deer Hunter as an example. Christopher Walkin's character spends a long time in a Vietnamese POW camp where he is forced to play Russian Roulette. When he is freed and makes it back home safe you would expect him to want to move on. Instead he goes back to Saigon and starts playing Russian Roulette again, eventually taking his own life.


----------



## Entropy3000

naga75 said:


> If someone was sexually assaulted after being in a bar all night...
> I dont really understand WHY that person would want to go to new orleans by themselves.
> NO is basically one giant bar.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


N.O. is one of the unsafest places a woman could go to period let alone a woman who had been assaulted and raped.

What is she looking for there on her own?


----------



## Entropy3000

totamm said:


> Excellent point.
> 
> The woman was raped and she's off to a party city by herself?
> 
> Read between the lines.


Not just a party city. One with a nasty rep to boot. That includes the police.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cody1980 said:


> I have thought some of those same things.
> 
> With the New Orleans thing... She is NOT a "party girl" and has mentioned to me on several occasions that she wanted to travel to NO. For the food, not for the partying. We almost went there on our honeymoon.
> 
> No matter how many bad decisions she made that night she has paid for those mistakes. While I don't think she was "trolling" for men I do know she has been enjoying the attention she's been getting.
> 
> On that note, she did not ask for or deserve what she got that night. Also she did ask me to go out with her. I was half asleep and too drunk from tail gating all day. If I was with her none of it would have happened. It has taken me a LONG time to get over that guilt and is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life.


What was she doing there in the bar by herself that late?

Who does that? Maybe you cannot answer that one. 

Why was this ok with her husband? Was it ok with you? How often did she do this? Do you know?


----------



## totamm

Entropy3000 said:


> What was she doing there in the bar by herself that late?
> 
> Who does that?


Rape victims.


----------



## totamm

Cody1980 said:


> I cite one of my favorite movies the Deer Hunter as an example. Christopher Walkin's character spends a long time in a Vietnamese POW camp where he is forced to play Russian Roulette. When he is freed and makes it back home safe you would expect him to want to move on. Instead he goes back to Saigon and starts playing Russian Roulette again, eventually taking his own life.


So according to your theory, she's going to go right back into the same situation that caused her to get sexually assaulted in the first place.

Yet despite her current mental state and high likelihood of a repeat, you're ok with her going alone to a city known for exactly this sort of thing. 

It's like handing a drunk the car keys because you don't want an argument.


----------



## karole

Cody, If she is putting herself in compromising positions and taking chances that she would not normally take (due to the attack), then why on earth would you support her going to NO or anywhere else by herself at this time?


----------



## Cody1980

totamm said:


> Ok, got it. Mom was originally going to go with her, now she's going alone, you're convinced her intentions are completely honorable, she's never cheated on you and she's not going to cheat on you (the sexting on SKPE not withstanding). Her crazy behavior of late is completely out of character and is a result of a very unfortunate incident that occurred a few months ago that she has yet to come to terms with and it's not her fault, even though she was alone in a bar with a guy at 1:30 in the morning long after her friends went home. It's completely on you that it happened in the first place and you feel terribly guilty about that which is why you are not pressing the issue of her going alone to New Orleans because of the great food.
> 
> If nothing else, put a VAR under her airplane seat.


Thanks for this post. Good sum up.

I plan to suggest that I go with her during our next MC session.

The VAR might be a bit to devious for me but I have a few other ideas to keep tabs on her. I can keep tabs on her spending and cell phone calls and texts (just numbers, dates, and times no context) Also I will be requesting that she gives me her room number and may make some surprise phone calls early in the morning.


On a side note I should point out that I can check in on her when ever I want. When we first separated I spent several nights watching our house with binoculars (like a Private Eye not a stalker lol). She had every opportunity to cheat on me and she didn't and to my knowledge she has never once lied to me.

I hate the fact that she is going on this trip but what our my options? If I tell her she can't / won't go without me it will more than likely will force us into a divorce. OR I trust my wife who has never lied to me and let her go on the trip even though there is a chance she is going there to hook up.

In some ways I think it would be easier if I could catch her red handed. I don't want to force the issue by trying to catch her though.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Cody1980 said:


> Lots of good ideas people.
> 
> Part of the reason I am liking the marriage counseling is because he is not invested in our relationship. That is why I am here. Some advice I will take some I won't but for the most part it is all constructive.
> 
> I think I will bring up the idea of me going with her in our next MC session and see how it plays out. At least it will be a nice segue into discussing my concerns about the trip.
> 
> Also (and I think someone mentioned this before) her response to her sexual assault is way more typical then you think. In fact I, like you, thought it would have the exact opposite effect on her (i figured she would be more timid and scared, then being brave and outright reckless) I/we have done a lot of research on the subject and her response is WAY more common than I ever would have guessed.
> 
> I should also, mention that we have been talking with a rape advocate about once a month since this happened and she also said this type of response is very common. I'm not saying you are all wrong, some women do have the type of reaction you would expect but not all of them.
> 
> I cite one of my favorite movies the Deer Hunter as an example. Christopher Walkin's character spends a long time in a Vietnamese POW camp where he is forced to play Russian Roulette. When he is freed and makes it back home safe you would expect him to want to move on. Instead he goes back to Saigon and starts playing Russian Roulette again, eventually taking his own life.


OK, so maybe this is a common reaction! But is it a smart one! 

I would expect the counselor to say, "It is great that you still want to be out in public, but let's not hang out at bars till 1:30am by yourself. And a trip to New Orleans by yourself is probably not a good idea, now or EVER!"


----------



## totamm

Cody1980 said:


> On a side note I should point out that I can check in on her when ever I want. When we first separated I spent several nights watching our house with binoculars (like a Private Eye not a stalker lol). She had every opportunity to cheat on me and she didn't and to my knowledge she has never once lied to me.


How does you watching her with binoculars at the house when you moved out equate to you being able to check in on her whenever you want to? Especially when she's in another state by herself? Unless you hire a PI to tail her, and that might not be a bad idea, if even for her own safety. In her current state she's her own worst enemy. 



Cody1980 said:


> I hate the fact that she is going on this trip but what our my options? If I tell her she can't / won't go without me it will more than likely will force us into a divorce.


She'd divorce you over THAT? I think you gotta risk retribution. Tell her in her current state she can easily get herself into trouble and you cannot, in good faith as a caring, loving, responsible husband, allow herself to be placed in that sort of danger. 



Cody1980 said:


> OR I trust my wife who has never lied to me and let her go on the trip even though there is a chance she is going there to hook up.


The online cybersex was a lie. Call it what it is.

At least you're aware of the risk of her hooking up on the trip. You're not nearly as in the dark as you seemed to be at the start of this thread. 



Cody1980 said:


> In some ways I think it would be easier if I could catch her red handed. I don't want to force the issue by trying to catch her though.


You aren't going to catch her redhanded in New Orleans. 

When she gets back.. you'll be wondering about what happened, maybe to the point that it will become obsessive.


----------



## Cody1980

Entropy3000 said:


> What was she doing there in the bar by herself that late?
> 
> Who does that? Maybe you cannot answer that one.
> 
> Why was this ok with her husband? Was it ok with you? How often did she do this? Do you know?


1. She was there to meet her friends. They left at 1:30 and she stayed by herself.

2. This one is tough. I guess if I'm being honest my answer would be drunk people with low self esteem.

3. I was only willing to let her go out because she was meeting her friends. It was not (is not) ok with me that she stayed after they left. To my knowledge she has never done the solo bar thing before or after.


----------



## Cody1980

totamm said:


> So according to your theory, she's going to go right back into the same situation that caused her to get sexually assaulted in the first place.
> 
> Yet despite her current mental state and high likelihood of a repeat, you're ok with her going alone to a city known for exactly this sort of thing.
> 
> It's like handing a drunk the car keys because you don't want an argument.


I am not OK with. That is the reason for this post in the first place. I have accepted it but don't like it.


----------



## Cody1980

SadSamIAm said:


> OK, so maybe this is a common reaction! But is it a smart one!
> 
> I would expect the counselor to say, "It is great that you still want to be out in public, but let's not hang out at bars till 1:30am by yourself. And a trip to New Orleans by yourself is probably not a good idea, now or EVER!"


I agree and good tip for my MC


----------



## totamm

Cody1980 said:


> I am not OK with. That is the reason for this post in the first place. I have accepted it but don't like it.


The more I think about it the more I like the idea of having her tailed by a PI. 

I suggest making a few calls to the New Orleans area and at least find out if it's feasable and within your price range. 

So what if it's a few grand for a few days of surveillance? If nothing else they could spend a few hours each day in the evening, following her from her hotel. 

The money would be well spent.


----------



## Cody1980

totamm said:


> The more I think about it the more I like the idea of having her tailed by a PI.
> 
> I suggest making a few calls to the New Orleans area and at least find out if it's feasable and within your price range.
> 
> So what if it's a few grand for a few days of surveillance? If nothing else they could spend a few hours each day in the evening, following her from her hotel.
> 
> The money would be well spent.


Actually, I think this is kinda a good idea. At least with a tail on her I will know one way or another.

For those of you that can't tell I am a very laid back, nice guy, maybe too nice. Doing things like hiring a PI kind of goes against everything I stand for in a relationship. However, I didn't ask to feel this way, she lead me to this point.


----------



## totamm

Cody1980 said:


> Actually, I think this is kinda a good idea. At least with a tail on her I will know one way or another.


I bet if you could locate one in the New Orleans area, give them her hotel info, flight info.. have her tailed at least a few evenings, it won't cost you all that much and just think about how much more peace of mind you'll have versus having to take her word for it as to what really went down on that trip.


----------



## karole

Cody, how long is this trip? What does she plan on doing while in NO, besides eating at restaurants?


----------



## keko

The problem with PI is you don't have a chance to prevent her from eating the apple. 

You'll have proof but you don't sound like her cheating is a deal breaker to you, so why bother? 

I'd say just let her have fun and don't worry about it.


----------



## terrence4159

granted time have changed but it cost me 500 to tail my XW for a week


----------



## totamm

keko said:


> The problem with PI is you don't have a chance to prevent her from eating the apple.
> 
> You'll have proof but you don't sound like her cheating is a deal breaker to you, so why bother?
> 
> I'd say just let her have fun and don't worry about it.


So just bury his head in the sand?

Even "if" cheating wouldn't be a dealbreaker, just imagine the poor guy's anguish after she returns home, and not knowing whether or not she hooked up with a guy.

Plenty of reason to bother.

Besides, the cheating might not be a dealbreaker but her continued lying about it just might be. He needs to know.


----------



## keko

totamm said:


> So just bury his head in the sand?


Exactly.

Why waste $$ and lose your sleep over something you're not going to do anything?


----------



## totamm

keko said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Why waste $$ and lose your sleep over something you're not going to do anything?


I think I get your point.


----------



## Cody1980

totamm said:


> So just bury his head in the sand?
> 
> Even "if" cheating wouldn't be a dealbreaker, just imagine the poor guy's anguish after she returns home, and not knowing whether or not she hooked up with a guy.
> 
> Plenty of reason to bother.
> 
> Besides, the cheating might not be a dealbreaker but her continued lying about it just might be. He needs to know.


It is a deal breaker for me. Possibly the only deal breaker I have really (maybe heroine addiction).

Honestly the sex video chat only really upset me because it was someone she met prior to the event (she met him through an Android scrabble app call Word Feud. 

If she had only included me in it or if she had just met some random in an live chat porn site I would have no issues at all. We are very open with are sexuality and are definitely of the "internet"generation. She often will send me links to porno clips I might like and I do the same to her.

Anyway I'm gonna take a break from posting for today a check back in tomorrow.

I thank you all for your repeated help and appreciate the "tough love" and opinions.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cody1980 said:


> 1. She was there to meet her friends. They left at 1:30 and she stayed by herself.
> 
> 2. This one is tough. I guess if I'm being honest my answer would be drunk people with low self esteem.
> 
> 3. I was only willing to let her go out because she was meeting her friends. It was not (is not) ok with me that she stayed after they left. To my knowledge she has never done the solo bar thing before or after.



Thanks for the straight forward reply. My point in asking was to decern the state of your marriage BEFORE the assault.

Again not attacking the victim but her staying that late should tell you something. Even if she did not intend to hookup. She was seen as prey.

If she was drugged it could have been the bar tender.

I get that a rape victim can have odd behavior I would also suggest that a man's wife being raped is preyy heavy duty on him. No doubt you also have internal conflict as to whether she just flat was cheating and was assaulted or what. But the concept of my wife being raped chills me to the bone. I would rather anything else happen to me personally.


----------



## Entropy3000

totamm said:


> So according to your theory, she's going to go right back into the same situation that caused her to get sexually assaulted in the first place.
> 
> Yet despite her current mental state and high likelihood of a repeat, you're ok with her going alone to a city known for exactly this sort of thing.
> 
> It's like handing a drunk the car keys because you don't want an argument.


To repeat I cannot think of a worse place for a rape victim to go alone. In her mental state this could end worse than before.

This transcends all the rest. It seems criminal to not have an intervention here.


----------



## Entropy3000

The truth is that a husband does hold himself repsonsible for protecting his wife.

Many if not most men would rather die protecting their wife than have her raped.

So rape impacts more than just the victim.


----------



## dogman

I posted this when I got to page 2 so if this is covered in the other pages, sorry.


Quote,
#1 The incident that happened to my wife in Sept was classified as a sexual assault and robbery (they stole her purse, wedding ring, and all jewelery). It's a long story and I really don't want to go into it. Just know that my wife's only mistakes that night were trusting a stranger and staying out by herself after her friends left at 1:30am. The doctors believe she was drugged as her blood alcohol content was VERY close to death. She remembers very little of it and isn't 100% sure if she was even penetrated or not. The rape kit showed all the signs of a typical forced rape and she had to take all kinds of HIV prevention meds (which would have cost about $10k is we didn't get a voucher from the state of Illinois).
Unquote

If she was sexually assaulted, it makes no sense that she would want to go away alone. I just don't see it.
So she is either lying about the assault or she's not going to be alone.

I've known women who were assaulted and they will not go into dangerous situations alone. Vacationing alone for a woman is very dangerous ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR WORRIED ABOUT A DRINK BEING DRUGGED AND HER BEING RAPED.

NOT BUYING IT.

Also not buying that th sexual assault made her like more pysicallity during sex. You're right it's opposite, which says to me someone's not being truthful.


----------



## SomedayDig

Faithful Wife said:


> Omfg.


I know, right?! Who knew that NOLA was the murder capital of the world. Just one more reason Cody.


----------



## Entropy3000

I tend to agree with the above, but I also realize that something like this can have very strange effects on people.

Whether I buy her story or not is something else but what matters is whether her husband buys it.

I am thinking more and more that he should move on. If not he should engage. Being in the limbo is not healthy for him ... or her.


----------



## Entropy3000

SomedayDig said:


> I know, right?! Who knew that NOLA was the murder capital of the world. Just one more reason Cody.


CrimeMapping.com - National Map


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Hubby and I will take separate vacations. He does so more then I, especially since I'm confined to the house now. Hubby travels to the same place every year and brings home 40lbs of freshly caught salmon.

There has never been any issues with separate travel. I met up with an Internet friend and we had the greatest time a few years back. I'd like to see her again soon. However, I'm not keen on where she lives. 

If I wanted to leave this weekend, I could let hubby know and he'd be fine with it. We both really support and trust each other.


----------



## Shaggy

Bottom line,

She's engaging is risky behavior. He says she's not a parties yet she drinks heavily and gets drunk, she's going to NOLA alone. Virtually guaranteed what will happen to a single drunk woman there.

OP have you been to Bourbon street at 11pm?


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Fight for your marriage.

Whether she's meeting up with somebody (odds are good) or she's going alone ... that is a place to get drunk, enjoy good music, see (or show) some breasts and get laid. Nothing good will come from this trip. Why she would WANT to go without you is beyond me.

My wife went without me to the beach for a week ... with my parents. My wife has gone to New Orleans a few times without me ... she meets her sister and mother there. I can't imagine her going somewhere without ANYONE with her ... just all by herself. 

If your wife does, I'm willing to bet she'll make sure she's not alone for long. Honestly I wouldn't go normally go there ... except she now has a history (secret sex video chat) and the two of you aren't in a good enough place to live together.


----------



## Shaggy

OP, lets put aside if she might cheat or not.

Her going to NOLA alone is stupid and reckless. She has a high chance of being assaulted again or worse.


----------



## Shaggy

Everyone, this is thread jacking from the OPs original discussion anti it might wake and anger the mods.

Maybe better to take it outside?


----------



## Shaggy

Back on topic...

I think there is a lot more going on in your wife's head than you are seeing. She got assaulted, since then she's engaging in risky behaviors, increased sexual activity, has she also been pushing other boundaries and safety ?

Is she seeing an IC to deal with her emotions here because she sounds like she is amping things up, pushing it farther and farther perhaps as a way to deal with the psychological trauma?if so how far will she at sticking her hand on the fire before she gets burned?

That mom from NY who went to Istanbul alone and got murdered should be a wake up call to any one traveling alone to dangerous places.


----------



## that_girl

Yea. Sometimes when people hit trauma, they spin out.

I would be very worried about her mental state. But she is a grown adult so ...she'll do what she does and you can make choices based on that. However, she's not in her right mind. That shet CHANGES a person. She may never be ok. Lots of therapy (and it sucks) to work through it.


----------



## totamm

If you know she's not in her right mind, and she's making poor decisions, and you suspect she's going to continue to make bad decisions that put her at further risk of bodily harm then you owe it to her to protect her from herself in any way that you can.

That includes, but is not limited to, doing anything and everything you possibly can to stop her from going on this trip alone. 

It appears that she is well aware that she is in some sort of dysfunctional emotional mode and is not thinking clearly and not being responsible, so your concerns are not out of left field. 

She was originally going with mom. So suggest that she reschedule her trip for a time when mom can go with her.


----------



## FalconKing

that_girl said:


> Yea. Sometimes when people hit trauma, they spin out.
> 
> I would be very worried about her mental state. But she is a grown adult so ...she'll do what she does and you can make choices based on that. However, she's not in her right mind. That shet CHANGES a person. She may never be ok. Lots of therapy (and it sucks) to work through it.


To be honest...I have seen this. One of my friends is dating a girl who was raped, molested, and was a drug abuser. She has deep issues. She often times puts herself in dangerous situations just to see if she can handle them. To be honest, I think she was raped again because of this. She'll make friends with men she knows wants to sleep with her. Just so she can prove to herself she won't sleep with them and just be in their company. She meets guys and takes them home and watches t.v. with them and talks when she knows they are expecting to have sex(while she is dating my friend!) with her. Whenever she has an angry outburst or makes a mistake she blames it on other people and won't acknowledge negative things she's done. She doesn't want people to see her as anything but positive and free loving. She is quite beautiful and gets small roles in movies. A certain movie star told her he was interested in her. She knew he wanted to sleep with her but she gave him her number anyway. All his text was about them hooking up to make out or for sex. As far as I know she refused his advances but she wouldn't stop texting whenever he texted her. When my friend asked her why she was doing that she said she wanted to show him that they could just be friends. 

I know she has been through a lot. But I have told my friend, for his sanity he should break up with her.


----------



## Wiserforit

Nobody has said the wife deserved to be raped.

But we do have some attention seekers trying to pretend so. Because it is just such a feeling of power to be on that high horse condemning others for something they never said. Making the thread all about them. 

Maybe we can get back to the thread where we have a wife stepping out on her husband repeatedly, getting drunk, and etc.


----------



## curlysue321

I would be suspect that she is going alone without a companion. I would think that it is highly likely that she is meeting up with someone there.


----------



## dogman

Sorry all, but sometimes you can't take someone's rape story at face value. The truth is, it's odd that she wants to travel alone AFTER being raped. 

When the facts don't seem to match up usually something is being left out.

Read my thread "my Fathers secret" there can be more to it.


----------



## NewM

You got a lot more problems then her vacation.My guess is she is using you to pay off her loans/bills and will replace you as soon as you pay off get her out of debt.Her reason will be:We weren't meant for each other.


----------



## richie33

If anyone thinks its a good idea that this woman goes alone to NO after being raped is a moron.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## seasalt

I find it hard to believe it took eight pages before someone brought up the wife and mom that traveled to Istanbul and was sent back home to Staten Island in a coffin. Much was revealed during and after the search for her but as in this instance I suspect there is more in play than the original poster has presented or even is aware of.

Seasalt


----------



## richie33

Its on page one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrK

Entropy3000 said:


> Thanks for the straight forward reply. My point in asking was to decern the state of your marriage BEFORE the assault.
> 
> Again not attacking the victim but her staying that late should tell you something. *Even if she did not intend to hookup*. She was seen as prey.


Good point. Although I can't, for the life of me, figure out why she would stay at a bar late like that by herself EXCEPT to hook up. And you are correct, E3K. She lost weight and was trolling for men at bars BEFORE the rape. Good call.

Hey, E3K's post caused me to have a case of premature responder, so I'll say it now while I'm here: I think she's going to cheat down there. You suspect it. Hard to decide to do in that case.

But that's not why you are going to discuss this heavily for the next two weeks. After what happened 6 months ago and her crazy response to it, you don;t want this happening because you fear for her safety. And there are VERY legitimate reasons to fear for her safety.

I also like the idea that in your next MC you say: GOOD NEWS!! I got as ticket and am going with!

Her reaction may tell you everything you need to know.

Good luck.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Well, it only took SEVEN PAGES for someone else to see what *I* consider THE BIGGEST RED FLAG OF ALL...


> Another thing this post points out to me it that I spend a lot of time defending my wife's actions. Not only here, but to my friends and family. Its not something totally new to me as my friends and family have never really warmed up to my wife. *They see a different side to her than I do*. *Lately I have been much better at this by simply leaving them out of it*.


56yo woman here Cody asking you to consider the following seriously for about 2-3 minutes:

WHY would your family act like this? Do they HATE Cody? Are they jealous of you? Your marriage? Want to see you miserable every freakin' day.....OR

Do they LOVE Cody? Think he's a GREAT GUY? Want to see him happy, successful, fulfilled? Want the BEST for him?

If it's the latter, then the fact that ALL your family and friends CAN'T STAND your wife says it all! You don't want to see it, they're ALL wrong, you don't want to acknowledge it, they have a hiden agenda, you want to be 'right', you don't want to admit you screwed up....I don't know!?! I don't know you. I don't know Mrs. Cody. All I know is that your family & friends CAN'T STAND your wife to the point that you now avoid involving them in your marriage to any degree.

I'm all for separation of marriage/family, but THIS...it smacks of hiding your head in the sand!

All you've said is that your mother dislikes that your wife (and YOU, although perhaps she won't accept "you") doesn't want kids. Okay, why do the rest of the family dislike her? Why do your friends dislike her?

THAT is the real ROOT of the problem here. EVERYBODY is seeing something that you either DON'T SEE or WON'T ACKNOWLEDGE. Until you do, you're NEVER going to have peace.

.


----------



## keko

seasalt said:


> I find it hard to believe it took eight pages before someone brought up the wife and mom that traveled to Istanbul and was sent back home to Staten Island in a coffin. Much was revealed during and after the search for her but as in this instance I suspect there is more in play than the original poster has presented or even is aware of.
> 
> Seasalt


Wasn't she a drug transporter?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrK

that_girl said:


> RAPE or SEXUAL ASSAULT is about power and control. Not sex.


Hasn't that little bit of feminist bull**** been debunked yet?


----------



## MrK

The most amazing story I have read on here was a man who's wife used to wait for him to fall asleep at night, then get out of bed, go to the meat markets, screw a young stranger and be back in bed before he wakes up. If he was good in bed and local (she used to troll tourist bars so she normally wouldn't have to see them again), she would have longer, protracted affairs.

This went on for TEN YEARS!!! I forget how he found out, but what if it was after a cop was at his door saying his wife was in the emergency room after a rape? Then the truth comes out.

Let's say this person was the OP, Cody. He now comes back on this sight with the exact same issue. But instead of "she was raped after talking to a handsome stranger", it was "she was raped after 10 years of the behavior K described above".

Was she asking to get raped? No, in neither case (including my hypothetical). So let me ask all of you "I can't believe you're blaming his wife for her rape" crowd: In that hypothetical, if he is coming here to discuss this issue, we WOULDN'T be able to talk about what kind of a woman she was pre-rape? If she WASN'T raped it would be an ENTIRELY different story and we would CRUCIFY her. But because she was raped, that behavior that is CRITICAL to the current issue couldn't be discussed.

The rape was unfortunate and horrible. But the kind of woman she was becoming pre-rape (lost weight, trolling for men at bars, gray areas of fidelity) has issued directly and CRITICALLY related to this trip.

What you are all saying is that heavy sleeper's wife is a monster for what she did and her activities NEED ACCOUNTABILTY, damn it. But if she was raped on one of those episodes, all bets are off.

I don't get that.


----------



## Cody1980

that_girl said:


> So she was obviously ASKING to be raped and mugged and victimized.
> 
> I stay places late sometimes. I'm not hoping to get VIOLATED  Hell, I could get violated in the MIDDLE OF THE DAY.
> 
> What the hell is wrong with some of you people? The woman went through some TRAUMA and you're practically saying she caused it!
> 
> I have been raped. By someone I freaking knew. It wasn't pretty and NO, I wasn't asking for it.
> 
> RAPE or SEXUAL ASSAULT is about power and control. Not sex.
> 
> Some people do just as she's doing and spin out of control after an incident like this. Others don't.
> 
> But I'm so glad ya'll got her figured out. I'd love to see how you handle the healing process after something like that.


Thank you for this.


----------



## Cody1980

Machiavelli said:


> Cody, you've got a whole nest of interrelated problems that need to be sorted out before you can stay together. Here are some of your problems:
> 
> 1. Your female relatives don't really like your wife. Not a problem by itself, but considering how things are playing out, they may have some subconscious insight that leads them to not embrace her.
> 
> 2. Your wife was out doing something very questionable when she was raped. You say she never did this before, but since you don't keep her leashed, how do you know?
> 
> 4. Here's your biggest problem: Your wife was raped while drunk at a place to which she previously asked you to escort her and you declined to do so. You refused to escort her because you were already drunk. I don't care what she says, she blames you for the rape. I don't care that she went there under her own power, I don't care that she chose to stay and flirt when her friends left, I don't care that you were asleep in your own puke when it happened, you failed to escort and protect your wife. And that's how she sees it, even if she agrees verbally it's not your fault, her actions say otherwise.
> 
> This was *The Ultimate Epic Husband Fail *and in her eyes your sex rank has taken a hit that you probably can't recover from. This is very common with rapes and even worse when the H is present. The whole point of marriage is that the man provides protection for the woman and the woman provides sex for the man. In the old days a single woman who was the mistress of a man was said to be "under his protection." That went without saying for a married woman. Get it? This is ancient and limbic reproductive system stuff and rational thought doesn't have a thing to do with it.
> 
> 5. Your second biggest problem: Your wife most likely remembers more than she's admitting. Most likely, she climaxed during the rape. This is not as rare as you might think. Women say their bodies betray them when this happens and it really messes with their minds. As you are seeing, her sexuality is changing radically. Again, it's not that rare. She doesn't want the tender "lovemaking" you are providing, she wants to be dominated and have the sh*t f*cked out of her. Preferably by strangers. YMMV, but that's the gist of it, isn't it? She needs to see a shrink, not a rape counselor.
> 
> 6. She's on the make. When a wife starts losing big weight it's to either keep up with a husband who is upping his own sex rank and getting a lot of eye from women or it's to appeal to new men or even a specific new man. When a wife separates from her husband it's to get distance to pursue a new relationship(s) without having to constantly evade your observation. There's a reason you felt the need to maintain observation over your wife's apartment.
> 
> 7. Your wife brought up the webcam sex to you. You indicated you were okay with it. Sh1t test FAIL. She was sounding you out. She wanted you to call her out and claim her as yours and to set down boundaries. You didn't. You can be as modern, hipster, and metrosexual as you want, but women have certain primal codes and modern, hipster, and metrosexual really don't get the job done when the basic, hardwired, animalistic female limbic brain programs are booted up by traumatic sexual assaults. You told her you didn't really care what she did sexually, so she's going to push things much farther than what you were comfortable with.
> 
> Any one of the above can be fatal to a marriage. You've got a lucky seven.
> 
> What can you do? Start going caveman and start trying to repair the damage by appealing to her limbic sexual programs. Tell her you're moving back in and do it. Tell her no more extracurricular sexual activity of any kind (even if you really want her to hotwife for you). Tell her you're going to New Orleans with her. Don't forget to take your .45 automatic, as NOLA is the murder capital of the USA. If she gets killed on this trip, it's another epic fail for you.
> 
> BTW, do women ever hit on you?


I don't agree with everything here and some of it flat out gave me chills but I appreciate your tough love.


----------



## Cody1980

Shaggy said:


> Everyone, this is thread jacking from the OPs original discussion anti it might wake and anger the mods.
> 
> Maybe better to take it outside?


Yes Please


----------



## tom67

After all you have read are you going to go with her? I would hope so.


----------



## Cody1980

FalconKing said:


> I would have handled it with love, patience, and understanding.
> 
> But I still would feel like the fact that my wife stay out late at a bar alone drinking would be something I would not tolerate. But I would not feel she deserved to be raped. I just wouldn't understand why she needed that.


Pretty must what I did and what was suggested to me by no less that 20 people that night at the hospital.

And I feel exactly the same about her staying out. Honestly, if she had come home fine that night and I found out later that she was out alone I would have freaked out on her.


----------



## Cody1980

that_girl said:


> Yea. Sometimes when people hit trauma, they spin out.
> 
> I would be very worried about her mental state. But she is a grown adult so ...she'll do what she does and you can make choices based on that. However, she's not in her right mind. That shet CHANGES a person. She may never be ok. Lots of therapy (and it sucks) to work through it.


I know what you mean. The question is should I, can I sacrifice my happiness (potentially for a long time) for my love for her? Is it enough just to be in love with her if the current situation does not make me happy.


----------



## that_girl

Your happiness needs to come from within. She isn't responsible for it. You are.

Happiness is also an illusion. Life isn't always happy.

If you can't be with a woman who stays out in bars all night, then don't. But she does what she does...you make choices.


----------



## Jasel

that_girl said:


> Your happiness needs to come from within. She isn't responsible for it. You are.


This. I see way too many people who rely on their relationship partner to basically dictate and set the bar for their own happiness. Don't ever rely on another person for your happiness. Find a way to be happy with OR without them. That way you're not so dependant on them or crushed when the relationship isn't going great.


----------



## Cody1980

NewM said:


> You got a lot more problems then her vacation.My guess is she is using you to pay off her loans/bills and will replace you as soon as you pay off get her out of debt.Her reason will be:We weren't meant for each other.


You are close here. The truth is she has no income of here own and no place to go. She is looking for a job but isn't willing to take anything outside of her degree (basically nothing under $15) Also, I've given her a certain of standard of living she isn't willing to give up. 

One time I told her that this is one of my fears. That she would get a great job and immediate leave me. She swears up and down that it isn't true and she would never do that to me. It ended with her being upset with me because I even considered it. I haven't brought it up again but am thinking on bringing up "finances" at my next MC session.


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## Jasel

Forgot if it was mentioned but who is bankrolling her trip to NO??


----------



## tom67

Move back in she can have "space" by moving into another room if she wants.


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## Entropy3000

1) The wife was exhibiting risky behavior before she was assaulted.

2) She wanted her husband to leave. He did. 

3) She got involved with a guy online and it turned cyber-sexual.

4) She is now going to New Orleans by herself because she is a foodie.

The OP has been going along with all of this. Many of us feel that he shoulda coulda done something different. But the fact remains that the wife is on this road and she has chosen it. No one here has said she chose to be raped. This was not her husbands fault. But indeed a husband will feel responsible for his wife however irrational that may seem to some.

I would not have moved out but of course she could have on her own, so there is no guarantee that him staying would have prevented the separation.

I don't think I could have gone on the Christmas trip under the circumstances. I would have wanted to be home with her. But again she wanted him gone. So I cannot blame him. She wanted this.

I think he should insist on going to N.O. with her but she will refuse to go with him. The problem is that this was already set in motion. When the mother opted out that created a huge problem. he should have immediatley took her place. But again, the odds of the wife allowing this are nil.

So yes this is an over the top train wreck happening.
At some point he is going to have to invoke tough love. Him just watching his wife do this to herself, the marriage and him cannot continue.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Cody1980 said:


> I know what you mean. The question is should I, can I sacrifice my happiness (potentially for a long time) for my love for her? Is it enough just to be in love with her if the current situation does not make me happy.


There are two things here:

1. As That_Girl notes, you need your happiness to come from yourself. Don't let it depend on others.

2. You need to decide if staying with her (and sacrificing to do so) makes sense. You need to balance the "in sickness and in health" with the "forsaking all others". She needs help, and you need to work to support her in getting it. Yet at some point, if she is not willing to do so, you have to let her travel her own path. If she will not get help, or does not take it seriously and continues to take actions that are harmful to your marriage, then I am not sure there is much that you can do. 

She has been through something that is very traumatic and as such, it has resulted in her doing some uncharacteristic things. Yet at some point, her intent or motivation behind her actions don't matter if they are hurting you and your relationship.


----------



## Cubby

Cody1980 said:


> I don't agree with everything here and some of it flat out gave me chills but I appreciate your tough love.


Which parts do you disagree with? Not to be argumentative, but for more clarity and understanding.


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## Shaggy

And if you happen to choose to go or show up? What happens?


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## coffee4me

I try to read these stories and put myself in the person's shoes. From all that I've read here, I came away with this: 

If I had a loved one who was spinning out of control and even acknowledges doing so would I aid them in making bad choices? 

Your wife as an adult has the right to do as she wishes. However, you make all the money in the relationship so you financially support her doing anything she wishes even if she is making bad choices. 

Going on vacation alone is not a bad thing. Anyone, going on vacation alone when they have proven that they are not currently making decisions that show concern for their own safety is a bad thing. As a person that loves someone, I could not fund such a vacation.


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## Anon Pink

Cody and his wife have been married for 3 years. Mrs Cody recently lost weight. Could have been before the wedding, could have been after.*But someone has suggested that she has lost weight and is now more likely to have an affair. This is jumping to conclusions unsupported in Cody's narrative, projecting and making unfair assumptions.*

Cody's friends and family don't really like his wife and he thinks it is because she doesn't want kids. I doubt anyone here would be super thrilled someone they loved was marrying someone who didnt' want kids. They would assume this woman to be very selfish for denying her husband offspring. *And yet posts have been made that insinuate they must have some other reason for hating her and Cody's not realizing it. This is reaching far beyond what is contained in Cody's posts and manipulating facts to support a preconceived prejudice against Mrs. Cody.*

Mrs. Cody went out drinking with friends 6 months ago. *And right here is where several posters have leaped to the conclusion that GNO that included bars and drinking indicated she was trolling for attention from men.*

*So far 3 major leaps made by a lot of commentators, assumed to be true and we now have a wife already outlining the letter "A" sewn onto her vest.*

At the bar with her friends, Mrs Cody drinks alcoholic beverages. Her friends leave at 1:30am but she stays behind. *Now we have people assuming she was rip roaring drunk; she was flirting with another man; she had agreed to leave with another man; she had agreed to a sexual encounter with another man; even a veiled assumption that she went to the bar that night in order to FIND another man."The fact that a drunk woman can be drugged and raped is another reason why women shouldn't hanging out in bars late at night without their husbands." This statement is particularly offensive as it very clearly blames the victim. I don't think I've ever heard of a man being blamed for being drugged and or robbed at a bar while alone. A man should be able to get drunk at a bar without risking being drugged and robbed! But a woman drinking at a bar is automatically drunk. A woman drinking at a bar is asking for trouble. A woman at a bar alone is advertising her desire to be raped. *

Now we have 4 facts as Cody presented them. (1)Wife lost weight. (2)Family doesn't like wife because she doesn't want kids. (3)Wife had GNO at a bar and (4)friends left her by herself at 1:30am.

None of these character assassinations started until after Cody disclosed his wife was sexually assaulted. AFTER this disclosure you all painted a character of a woman who is amping up her sex rank by loosing weight, out trolling for men with a drinking problem. Oh no blaming, projecting, or rush to judgment going on here!

Next we get into purely judgmental fact twisting.

1. Mrs Cody engaged in a video chat of a sexual nature without Cody's prior knowledge. Cody has said had he known it was going to happen he would have liked to watch. From this it is safe to assume the Codys define monogamy differently and that THEY BOTH are okay with video sex chats but only with the others participation. Posters twisted this fact into "she looses weight and goes trolling for men?"

2. Mrs Cody, as a result of a string of failed plans and back up plans, intends to go to New Orleans without anyone with her or intending to meet up with family or a friend.*But now that the rape has been disclosed, now that she has been branded with the scarlet letter for being in a bar "in the middle of the night" drunk, after her friends left, flirting with and "agreeing to leave with" another man; "alone with a guy, drunk in a vulnerable position in the middle of the night" "what part about her looking to pick up a guy don't you get"*

3. Mrs Cody was robbed and sexually assaulted the night of her GNO. The hospital report stated her blood alcohol content was very close to death leading them to believe she was drugged. Mrs. Cody doesn't remember what happened but the physical exam showed indications of forcible penetration consistent with rape. Cody states her mistake was trusting a stranger and staying at the bar after her friends left. 

*But the twisting of the above facts morph into: "Your wife told you she was sexually assaulted by a guy she met at a bar...she was very drunk. She was alone with him by her own choice and things turned very bad and he either forced himself on her or she regretted it later and "her story" is mostly a cover up. She has cheated on you." 

" Her fault was stepping out on her husband, drinking in a place where there are just these kind of risks and obviously making a bad decision with this guy, namely going with him." 

here's my favorite blame the victim and exonerate the men: "It's not your fault that since you decided you weren't up for going out, she decided to put herself in a position where she was... alone with a guy, drunk, in a vulnerable position, in the middle of the night." 

"She was doing something very questionable when she was raped. But since you dont keep her leashed how do you know."

"Very possibly her encounter turned nasty. Maybe she said no and he said yes. She has chosen the party wife motif. What was she doing there is the bar that late? Who does that? Why was this okay with her husband?... How often did she do this? Do you know?" 

"whether I buy her "story" or not is something else but what matters is whether her husband buys it."

"She's engaging in risky behavior He says she's not a parties yet she drinks heavily and gets drunk..."

"yet she parties so hard she is vulnerable to predators who have already harmed her and now her behavior is even worse...blaming yourself for her staying at the bar after her friends left. Like that was your decision?" Another exoneration for her husband while blaming the victim.

...your wife put herself in a dangerous situation. ...they were playing with fire...you wonder if they knew they might get burned or were they having fun with the fire and the most obvious consequences is something they never even considered... poor reasoning makes you look down on them a bit. I think going out late and getting drunk... But that story sounds to me like she was looking for male attention and thing got "out of hand."*

What I find particularly repugnant is that the above comments directly accuse the rape victim for being in a bar, directly accuse her character by suggesting it was an elicit encounter gone bad and that the rape victim "led on her own attacker" as she made arrangements to rendez vous with him then backed out, thus causing her own assault. Only a party wife would put herself in such a position and only a wimp husband would allow his wife out "unleashed" in the first place. And the coup de grace is that the rape is a fabricated story altogether! 

And then the apologists come out: *...you can just put down your effort to guilt trip people.."* As if pointing out that accusing the victim for being an unfaithful wife because she was raped is a guilt trip?



Wiseforit said:


> Nobody has said the wife deserved to be raped.


Really? Cant you read?


----------



## MrK

Pink. We all understand your point. You want to change peoples minds on an internet forum. It doesn't happen. The purpose is to give him as many opinions as we can and let him decide. You are VERY clear on your opinion. Thank you. Now put your talents to use for someone else that needs your insight.


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## MrK

To Pink again. Nobody said the wife deserved to be raped. But her mindset up to that point is important to this conversation. By itself? Maybe not. But it is part of the picture. She was sitting in a bar looking to meet men. She was horribly raped and is now acting out in turn. And now wants to go from the frying pan and into the fire? It's part of the picture and we're not going to ignore it because you have an agenda.


----------



## Anon Pink

Cody, the way your wife is dealing with the trauma is common, but that doesn't mean, as her husband, you should allow her to take a trip anywhere all alone, whether she was raped or not. 

I don't think she is actually in search of an extra marital encounter (as defined by you) but she is behaving impulsively, unpredictably and in a way that is out of character for her. 

Taking any trip all alone is very dangerous to anyone. Even when traveling on business all alone, there are still appointments, places a person must be at a specific time, specific goals and reasons for being in any particular place at any time. Being all alone means she isn't really expected to be at any particular place at a [articular time. Since no one is expecting her, she is free to impulsively change plans with out notifying anyone before hand. Staying longer in a shop instead of heading back to the hotel for dinner. Deciding to go to a restaurant instead of a museum, hanging out in a park taking pictures instead of meeting a tour, taking a nap instead of having lunch. 

Plans change too quickly all alone, regardless of your wife's current emotional state. 

But when add her current emotional state into the equation, it is a ticking time bomb and I would bet my house *she's secretly hoping you will insist she put off the trip unless/until she has someone with her. *Someone who can save her from her compulsion to put herself in harms way in order to recreate the event and change the outcome. 

Sometimes you have to insist that your wishes and wants be respected. It doesn't make you a bad husband with a heavy hand, dragging his knuckles on the ground as he beats his chest. This is one of those times.

Tell her you will not allow this trip alone because she is behaving irrationally, and because you couldn't live with yourself if anything happened to her. Be firm and unapologetic.


----------



## Cody1980

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Well, it only took SEVEN PAGES for someone else to see what *I* consider THE BIGGEST RED FLAG OF ALL...
> 
> 
> 56yo woman here Cody asking you to consider the following seriously for about 2-3 minutes:
> 
> WHY would your family act like this? Do they HATE Cody? Are they jealous of you? Your marriage? Want to see you miserable every freakin' day.....OR
> 
> Do they LOVE Cody? Think he's a GREAT GUY? Want to see him happy, successful, fulfilled? Want the BEST for him?
> 
> If it's the latter, then the fact that ALL your family and friends CAN'T STAND your wife says it all! You don't want to see it, they're ALL wrong, you don't want to acknowledge it, they have a hiden agenda, you want to be 'right', you don't want to admit you screwed up....I don't know!?! I don't know you. I don't know Mrs. Cody. All I know is that your family & friends CAN'T STAND your wife to the point that you now avoid involving them in your marriage to any degree.
> 
> I'm all for separation of marriage/family, but THIS...it smacks of hiding your head in the sand!
> 
> All you've said is that your mother dislikes that your wife (and YOU, although perhaps she won't accept "you") doesn't want kids. Okay, why do the rest of the family dislike her? Why do your friends dislike her?
> 
> THAT is the real ROOT of the problem here. EVERYBODY is seeing something that you either DON'T SEE or WON'T ACKNOWLEDGE. Until you do, you're NEVER going to have peace.
> 
> .


Yes my family loves me and I know they want the best for me. My one sister that caused most of the problems is a basically and evil vindictive person but she still loves me.

I also need to say that my mom and her have been able to get along very well at times. The problems arose recently when my sister basically forced her to choose her between my wife and her (my sister is currently pregnant with her first child).

My family and friends dislike her now because they do not think I am happy or that I seem to be unhappy around her. 

I think so of them initially disliked her because she acted very weird around them and put people on edge. My wife it totally a introvert (unless she is drunk). Throughout almost 4 years of being together I have observed that she acts completely different when she is in a social situation then when it is just me and her. This is amplified 100 times when it is my family. They simply do not know the same person that I do. 

You are correct when you say I have a hard time acknowledging it. Maybe you are right, maybe I can't acknowledge it because that would mean I failed to see it and therefore, failed at my marriage.


----------



## Cody1980

Jasel said:


> This. I see way too many people who rely on their relationship partner to basically dictate and set the bar for their own happiness. Don't ever rely on another person for your happiness. Find a way to be happy with OR without them. That way you're not so dependant on them or crushed when the relationship isn't going great.


Good advise and something I have been trying to do.


----------



## Anon Pink

MrK said:


> To Pink again. Nobody said the wife deserved to be raped.
> 
> *Um yeah, actually YOU did!
> "Why did she stay after her friends left? What was her intent with this kind of stranger? She looses weight and goes trolling for men?"*
> 
> But her mindset up to that point is important to this conversation. By itself? Maybe not. But it is part of the picture. She was sitting in a bar looking to meet men.
> 
> *This is an example of blaming the victim that you clearly don't see.
> 1. Being in a bar does not mean she is fair game for sexual assault, nor does it mean she had intentions of hooking up.
> 2. Cody never said she was looking to meet me. You said she was looking to meet men. An assumption commonly made about a woman who goes to a bar. If she looking to meet men at a bar, then she is asking to be raped because she is engaging in risky behavior. And I'm calling you out on your BS!
> *
> 
> She was horribly raped and is now acting out in turn.
> 
> *Just because you put the word "horribly" in front of the word rape, doesn't mean your previous assertion regarding her intent is null and void.*
> 
> 
> And now wants to go from the frying pan and into the fire? It's part of the picture and we're not going to ignore it because you have an agenda.


from your post #132


MrK said:


> Although I can't for the life of me figure out why she would stay at a bar late like that by herself EXCEPT to hook up. And you are correct E3K. She lost weight and was trolling for men at bars BEFORE the rape. Good call.



I can think of a few reasons that have nothing to do with other men. You assume that her weight loss was what prompted her to troll for other men at bars. Again, you are assuming things to be true and judging the victim based on those assumptions. *That would be called: Blaming The Victim!*

You made these statements. Now you're baking away from them without taking responsibility for them. 

Oh and now I have an "agenda" which implies some nefarious underhanded scheme to subvert the morals of the nation? My "agenda" is to not allow you or anyone else to get away with blaming the victim. PERIOD! So you keep making these assumptions that blame the victim and I'll keep calling you out on it... M'Kay sport?


----------



## Cody1980

Jasel said:


> Forgot if it was mentioned but who is bankrolling her trip to NO??


Before I go further I should mention we have a joint bank account which is a whole other issue. I have taken steps to prepare for my own bank account should the need arise. Frankly I can just start depositing my paycheck into a new bank account and the old one would run dry. 

Here is how it breaks down.

Plane Ticket: 
A Xmas gift from my family (includes rescheduling fee)

Hotel, rental car, spending money: 
Tax refund. She got a $2500 tax credit this year (something about female student over 30) and I told her she should use this money free of guilt for this trip.

In fact just last night she spent $1200 on 4 night in a hotel. She included me the process as I had a few stipulations about locations that are safe for her.


----------



## bfree

Anon Pink said:


> You know Entropy, I kind of resent that. Maybe I'm off base and please correct me if I'm wrong but this seems to be an insinuation directed toward me that my marriage is not monogamous based on your judgement about my GNOs and the level of privacy in my marriage. Considering the comment you are responding to is a comment that was made in response to me comment, it really does appear that your above statement was directed at me.
> 
> I think Ive been respectful of you and your opinions, even though I disagree and I'd like the same respect returned. If this is not in your power please add me to your blocked list.


I'm not Entropy but I know and agree with what he's saying about privacy. If you really think about it every decisions and action you take affects your spouse in some way, shape or form. Shouldn't your spouse be informed about those things? Shouldn't your spouse know everything possible about you and vice versa? I admit I didn't always think that way but the oder I get the more I realize that complete openness and transparency helps to avoid a lot of the little marital problems that may come up every now and then. Those little problems can eventually build up to bigger problems and sometimes anger, resentment and mistrust can creep in to the marriage. So many years ago my wife and I adopted a complete openness policy so that we stay intimately involved in every aspect of each other's lives.


----------



## bfree

Cody1980 said:


> I have thought some of those same things.
> 
> With the New Orleans thing... She is NOT a "party girl" and has mentioned to me on several occasions that she wanted to travel to NO. For the food, not for the partying. We almost went there on our honeymoon.
> 
> No matter how many bad decisions she made that night she has paid for those mistakes. While I don't think she was "trolling" for men I do know she has been enjoying the attention she's been getting.
> 
> On that note, she did not ask for or deserve what she got that night. Also she did ask me to go out with her. I was half asleep and too drunk from tail gating all day. If I was with her none of it would have happened. It has taken me a LONG time to get over that guilt and is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life.


Do you realize that NO is one of the most dangerous cities to go to? Its a wonderful city but even residents know how dangerous it is. I have a friend who lives near NO and he won't go into the city unless he's carrying, especially at night.


----------



## bfree

Cody1980 said:


> I am not OK with. That is the reason for this post in the first place. I have accepted it but don't like it.


Then *don't* accept it.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Anon Pink said:


> from your post #132
> 
> I can think of a few reasons that have nothing to do with other men.


Like what?


----------



## Cody1980

bfree said:


> Then *don't* accept it.


I believe she will go on this trip no matter what I say or do. If I simply say "I forbid you to go on the trip without me" or if I simply just force myself into the vacation I think it will end my marriage. In some ways I would rather her go on this vacation with my blessings than without.

Honestly I am afraid of losing her.


----------



## bfree

FalconKing said:


> For the record I live 3 hours from N.O. I hate that damn city. It's old but it's ugly. Everybody's rude, my friend was almost robbed there, and there are bars on every block. There is not bad or good part of the city. They are intermingled. It's not good for people visiting alone. There are so many tourists who go there just to get drunk and laid.
> 
> Foods good though and a lot of concerts always happening.


That's pretty much how my friend views NO. And he does go there to get laid and drunk.


----------



## bfree

Cody1980 said:


> I believe she will go on this trip no matter what I say or do. If I simply say "I forbid you to go on the trip without me" or if I simply just force myself into the vacation I think it will end my marriage. In some ways I would rather her go on this vacation with my blessings than without.
> 
> *Honestly I am afraid of losing her*.


And THAT is exactly why you will.


----------



## Wiserforit

Cody1980 said:


> My family and friends dislike her now because they do not think I am happy or that I seem to be unhappy around her.


Now we're getting somewhere. You don't seem happy to me either. But this has been since the beginning.



> I think so of them initially disliked her because she acted very weird around them and put people on edge. My wife it totally a introvert (unless she is drunk). Throughout almost 4 years of being together I have observed that she acts completely different when she is in a social situation then when it is just me and her. This is amplified 100 times when it is my family. They simply do not know the same person that I do.


Introverts don't put people on edge just by being quiet. There is something more to this. Can you be clear about what it is they saw in her?




> I also need to say that my mom and her have been able to get along very well at times. The problems arose recently when my sister basically forced her to choose her between my wife and her (my sister is currently pregnant with her first child)


This doesn't make sense. There is something missing, namely the actual story. You have a habit of framing things in favor of your wife. So naturally saying it this way makes your sister look terrible, but that tells me you are concealing the role your wife played once again.


----------



## TDSC60

I went to NO many years ago when I was single and had a blast. Saw Al Hurt play and some great cajun bands in the clubs along Bourbon St.

I went back to attend a conference about 10 years ago and it was a awful time. We had to walk around drunks lying on the sidewalk. Bourbon St was nothing more that female impersonator shows and tourist trap stores. There was a group of us (5 men) walking down Bourbon St. Suddenly we looked around and the crowd was two blocks behind us. A cop on horseback rode up to us and warned us not to walk any further in the direction we were headed as it was not a "recommended" area of the city. Five relatively young, big, strong guys and he is telling us we would not be safe in that section of the city. We tuned around and went back.

This was before the hurricane and I haven't been back since.

Not a safe place for a woman alone at night.


----------



## keko

Cody1980 said:


> I believe she will go on this trip no matter what I say or do. If I simply say "I forbid you to go on the trip without me" or if I simply just force myself into the vacation I think it will end my marriage. In some ways I would rather her go on this vacation with my blessings than without.
> 
> Honestly I am afraid of losing her.


No wonder she treats you the way she does.


----------



## bfree

wife, I know I was not there for you when you were assaulted. It is a k
Guilt I will have to live with for the rest of my life. However I cannot go back and change the past. All I can do now is look towards the future. Your behavior has been reckless and dangerous for quite awhile. You have admitted this to counselors and therapists and me. Therefore I do not feel my wife is safe going to New Orleans without me. Therefore I will be accompanying you on your trip. If you refuse to allow me to accompany you on this trip then I will file for divorce as soon as possible. I cannot stand the thought of my wife being in a dangerous place and at risk without me being there to help and protect her. You have already admitted to me add to your counselor that you are engaged engaging in risky behavior. So if you refuse my request to accompany you and protect you then you will go on this trip alone and you will go as a single woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## coffee4me

> Originally Posted by Cody1980
> I am not OK with. That is the reason for this post in the first place. I have accepted it but don't like it.
> 
> Plane Ticket:
> A Xmas gift from my family (includes rescheduling fee)
> 
> Hotel, rental car, spending money:
> Tax refund. She got a $2500 tax credit this year (something about female student over 30) and *I told her she should use this money free of guilt for this trip*.


So you are not ok with it but you encourage her to use her tax refund to go on the trip. Knowing that she is making reckless decisions. You pay all her living expenses including living apart from you and encourage her to use her only income on a guilt free vacation. You are supporting her in making reckless and irresponsible decisions. If she had to use her money to pay her living expenses since she choses to live apart from you then she would not have the money to go on a guilt free vacation. 

You can't stop someone from self destruction but I certainly wouldn't want it on my conscience that I supported it. Best of luck with your situation. I sincerely hope your wife has a safe trip.


----------



## Machiavelli

Cody1980 said:


> I don't agree with everything here and some of it flat out gave me chills but I appreciate your tough love.


The main thing to take away from it is that it is all under the conscious mind. It's all primeval limbic response. We don't like to admit that our prefrontal cortex isn't calling all the shots, but in certain circumstances like this one, all of that gets bypassed.


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> wife, I know I was not there for you when you were assaulted. It is a k
> Guilt I will have to live with for the rest of my life. However I cannot go back and change the past. All I can do now is look towards the future. Your behavior has been reckless and dangerous for quite awhile. You have admitted this to counselors and therapists and me. Therefore I do not feel my wife is safe going to New Orleans without me. Therefore I will be accompanying you on your trip. If you refuse to allow me to accompany you on this trip then I will file for divorce as soon as possible. I cannot stand the thought of my wife being in a dangerous place and at risk without me being there to help and protect her. You have already admitted to me add to your counselor that you are engaged engaging in risky behavior. So if you refuse my request to accompany you and protect you then you will go on this trip alone and you will go as a single woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Op please read this:iagree:


----------



## bfree

bfree said:


> wife, I know I was not there for you when you were assaulted. It is a k
> Guilt I will have to live with for the rest of my life. However I cannot go back and change the past. All I can do now is look towards the future. Your behavior has been reckless and dangerous for quite awhile. You have admitted this to counselors and therapists and me. Therefore I do not feel my wife is safe going to New Orleans without me. Therefore I will be accompanying you on your trip. If you refuse to allow me to accompany you on this trip then I will file for divorce as soon as possible. I cannot stand the thought of my wife being in a dangerous place and at risk without me being there to help and protect her. You have already admitted to me add to your counselor that you are engaged engaging in risky behavior. So if you refuse my request to accompany you and protect you then you will go on this trip alone and you will go as a single woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry it is not better quality. My speech to text editor was giving me problems.

Cody,

Since the assault your wife has given you opportunities to prove you are still a man and you have failed every test. She asks you to move out and you agree. She confesses a video sex chat and you sweep it under the rug. This is your last chance. If she goes on this trip without you your marriage is over anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cody1980

It's me again the OP, with my own thoughts 

First off I want to tell everyone to please stop the whole "rape" debate. I know that it is definitely important to the current situation but I have a curtain way I feel about it and I'm not going to change it any time soon. Anon Pink is pretty damn spot on with how I view the situation. I know that that are still many questions to be answered but her way of viewing it has been the healthiest for my wife and I. Lets just agree to disagree and move on.

Soooo...

Last night my wife and I went out for dinner and drinks to celebrate (yes, we still do things like this even though we don't live together.) We got a fat tax return that came several days early, I got an interview for a great job at a local state university, and she sold 2 of her designs. She was also celebrating the fact that she finally booked her hotel room (notice I said "she" and not "we"). As i mentioned in an earlier post, I was involved in the process. I did some research and made her choose a 4 star hotel that was in a safe neighborhood in the french quarter. It made me feel good that she was able to accept my request.

I didn't want to push the issue (wanting to save it for our next MC session) but I briefly mentioned that I was worried about her and wished she wasn't going alone. Also, that I was totally willing to drop everything and go with her (I didn't want to demand to go with her I also didn't want to flat out ask her permission to go with her).

Her response was that she needs to go on this trip 100% alone. She said she has something to prove to herself and that she really just wants several days all to herself. She swore to me that she is not doing this to meet or even interact with any people (or specific persons). Specifically quoted she said "I want to be that mysterious girl in a restaurant eating by herself." "I am 32 years old and not a wooo girl, (TV show How I Met your Mother reference)I want to sleep late, and go to bed early." "I want to experience good food, good architecture, beautiful artwork and new experiences"

So basically she was saying to me... "I am going on this trip for myself, not to hookup. I am 32 years old and an adult, you can trust me to make smart decisions"

At the end she said very important to me. She said "I need you to be on board with this and be happy for me. I will not be able to enjoy myself if I know you are worried about what I may or may not do, or what might happen to me. Damn it Cody, you are my husband, my best friend, and I love you to death. I need you to trust and support on this decision."

At that point I said something to the effect of "I will try". We moved on to our dinner and ended up having a wonderful night. I stayed at home for the first time in week but we both thought it best that I sleep in the spare room. It was also one of the few times since our separation that we were able to go out and have fun and not have sex. For some reason that always seems to gum up the works.

The no sex while drinking was actually a suggest from our MC. In my head I knew it was a good idea but as a human of the male persuasion my penis brain was like "dude, shut the f up".

So it is a day later and I feel a little better about the situation. I am still not 100% comfortable and probably never will be and I still want to bring up the issue in our next MC session. At this point I do not plan on forcing myself on this trip or to demand that I go. However, I am seriously considering hiring a PI in New Orleans to watch over her. 

I truly don't think she has or is planning on cheating on me but with the PI there I will know either way. The main point is that I will feel comfortable knowing that at least someone is watching out for her in New Orleans.

Also, I should mention that I bought her a stun gun and some pepper spray. We are going to get her concealed weapons permit this weekend so she can carry the taser. Not a fool proof plan but yet another thing that makes me feel better. She has also promised me that she will be to her room no later than midnight and will not under any circumstances go into anyone else room or allow anyone into her room.

Finally there was one thing that she said during dinner that reminded me that all this separation stuff and other BS that we are dealing with might be worth it. I was talking about my two friends I was living with and how they were both down in the dumps (one just got dumped the other was working 60 hours a week in a dead end job). Here is how it went down.

Me: "They are really bummed out, seriously without me there would be zero hope in that house"
My Wife (starting to tear up a little): you still have hope for me and us."
Me: "Of course I do, it's not every day that a guys chooses to give up on the best thing he's ever had."
My Wife (totally crying now): It means so much to me to hear you say that.
Me: "Well, I fing love you <name>"
My Wife: "I love you too"

For now, I am going to fight like hell for my marriage but I am not going to do anything to push her into making a rash decision. I cannot give up on this. She may be broken and in a bad place. I need to help her see this through, I think in the long run, whether we stay together on not, that it will be better for both of us.

The trip is a few weeks away. We will see what the future brings.


----------



## Wiserforit

bfree said:


> wife, I know I was not there for you when you were assaulted. It is a k
> Guilt I will have to live with for the rest of my life. However I cannot go back and change the past. All I can do now is look towards the future. Your behavior has been reckless and dangerous for quite awhile. You have admitted this to counselors and therapists and me. Therefore I do not feel my wife is safe going to New Orleans without me. Therefore I will be accompanying you on your trip. If you refuse to allow me to accompany you on this trip then I will file for divorce as soon as possible. I cannot stand the thought of my wife being in a dangerous place and at risk without me being there to help and protect her. You have already admitted to me add to your counselor that you are engaged engaging in risky behavior. So if you refuse my request to accompany you and protect you then you will go on this trip alone and you will go as a single woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, remember how he blamed himself last time? So now despite reaching that conclusion he's convinced himself that the best thing to do is give her his blessing. 

Spouses protect each other from bad decisions.


Edit: I just read the above post. So *Cody* is "proving" to the wife he trusts her in order to win back her love... but is deceiving her because he is hiring a private detective to shadow her. Talk about convoluted.


----------



## Anon Pink

bfree said:


> I'm not Entropy but I know and agree with what he's saying about privacy.


I sent you a PM because to answer here would be totally off topic.


----------



## Deejo

This thread has been moderated.

OP has requested SEVERAL times that the rape debate cease ... regardless of what side of the debate you are on. You want to talk about rape and victims? Do so in another thread.

Further derails will constitute a time-out.


----------



## tom67

Cody if you are not going you have to hire a PI down there at least for 2 days. I wish you luck with this.


----------



## Dawn of Man

Cody1980 said:


> Specifically quoted she said "I want to be that mysterious girl in a restaurant eating by herself." "I am 32 years old and not a wooo girl, (TV show How I Met your Mother reference)I want to sleep late, and go to bed early." "I want to experience good food, good architecture, beautiful artwork and new experiences"


Sounds like an "Eat, Pray, Love" style divorce fantasy.

"I want to be that mysterious girl in a restaurant eating by herself."
Because, men find that sexy and alluring.

lol @ 'new experiences'

Methinks she has a desire to play the field but is either deliberately denying it or doesn't consciously understand it.


----------



## Deejo

I'd like to know why you moved out? Why did you think that was a good idea?

Moving out isn't the first step towards reconciliation. It is the first step towards divorce.

Let's take all of the rhetoric out of the discussion.

Based upon the information you have provided, your wife is in crisis ... whether she is looking for some strange or not.

Your willingness to let her, in her current state, define the terms of how your marriage is going to work ... is ill advised.

Your counselor isn't going to say something like this to you. People here who know this story, and it's outcome, will.

You need to find your feet. You need to be leading and participating in this endeavor rather than being a passive, hurt, angry, spectator.

I have said these words far more often than I care to count.

You want to save your marriage? Then you need to be prepared to sacrifice it.

I get no sense that you will plan on going with her without her permission. And something in you senses that stating that you are going with her, will upset her ... which you aren't prepared to do.

Until you change THAT mindset, you're wife will continue to drift away from you ... despite tears, and words of "I love you."

Start making plans to move back in. Doesn't require a discussion. Only requires a decision ... from you.


----------



## Machiavelli

Cody, she's got the skids greased for you. Instead of waiting for her to send you down them, why not get a consultation now? Then, when you get the PI report things can go that much quicker.

She's toying with you.


----------



## SomedayDig

Cody...you're doing the classic nice guy approach. I get it. Heck, a lot of us get it. The problem is we've seen countless numbers of nice guys come back months later to say, "I don't know what happened".

I mean, what is this "I've got something to prove to myself" and the "I want to experience" stuff? She can't do that with you? Her husband. 

I hate to be Debbie Downer, but it almost appears as if she's looking for an EXIT sign.


----------



## Shaggy

So in other words, you expressed concern and she dismissed it all.

Then said trust me.

And you said ok.

And you slept in the guest room.

From my outside perspective, she's in charge completely with you having zero real input. You are in essence being fed a bunch of platitudes and wishes, yet you are getting pushed farther and farther out of her life.

When you raise a concern, you are told how silly you are and not to worry and then pushed farther way.

You may have hope for this turning better, I do not. It feels like you are very much being sidelined and put off while she is entirely selfishly focused on her, her, her.

When people do that it almost always means they are stringing plan B along while they either try out plan A, or hunt for plan A.

Do hire a good PI, because my gut says you are going to find her doing stuff you need to know about.

Btw, the only purpose at being that mysterious woman alone in a restaurant is to attract that dark handsome stranger who is going to sweep her off her feet in a romance.

I have noticed You haven't given one real reason why you are living apart, other than she wanted you out. 

Can you see her phone and text records or has she cut you out of her like there too?


----------



## Machiavelli

Shaggy said:


> Btw, the only purpose at being that mysterious woman alone in a restaurant is to attract that dark handsome stranger who is going to sweep her off her feet in a romance.


Bingo! We have a winner.


----------



## Cody1980

bfree said:


> Sorry it is not better quality. My speech to text editor was giving me problems.
> 
> Cody,
> 
> Since the assault your wife has given you opportunities to prove you are still a man and you have failed every test. She asks you to move out and you agree. She confesses a video sex chat and you sweep it under the rug. This is your last chance. If she goes on this trip without you your marriage is over anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree that I need to take some responsibilities in the "failure" in my relationship but I don't think I have failed every test. 

First off, she did not ask me to me out she suggested we live apart. I tried to clarify this in a earlier post and me moving was the best option. Also I am about three blocks aways. We talk every day and I usually spend about 15 hours of my evenings and weekends with her.

Second when she confessed he video chat I was NOT happy with her at all and did not brush it under that table. She was basically begging me to forgive her and not end our relationship. She swore to me that it was not pleasant for her and that she would never do it again. It took about 3 days before I spoke to her again and told her my feelings.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cody1980 said:


> I believe she will go on this trip no matter what I say or do. If I simply say "I forbid you to go on the trip without me" or if I simply just force myself into the vacation I think it will end my marriage. In some ways I would rather her go on this vacation with my blessings than without.
> 
> Honestly I am afraid of losing her.


She will tell you to FO.

However, you are supposed to tell her this is unacceptable to you. 

You cannot control someone. However you can communicate tho them that their behavior is not acceptable. This is a fundamentel concept.

Your fear is the THE problem now. The fear of you losing her is making you enable her. 

But this is on you. No one else. You have not asked her tyo not go have you? You have not told her this is unacceptable. So then all of this is in your mind. But I agree it is unlikely she will care about you at all. If that is true you lost her a long time ago.

If you always do what you do you will always get what you get. 

She has been exiting your marriage well before she went to that bar in September.


----------



## Entropy3000

TDSC60 said:


> I went to NO many years ago when I was single and had a blast. Saw Al Hurt play and some great cajun bands in the clubs along Bourbon St.
> 
> I went back to attend a conference about 10 years ago and it was a awful time. We had to walk around drunks lying on the sidewalk. Bourbon St was nothing more that female impersonator shows and tourist trap stores. There was a group of us (5 men) walking down Bourbon St. Suddenly we looked around and the crowd was two blocks behind us. A cop on horseback rode up to us and warned us not to walk any further in the direction we were headed as it was not a "recommended" area of the city. Five relatively young, big, strong guys and he is telling us we would not be safe in that section of the city. We tuned around and went back.
> 
> This was before the hurricane and I haven't been back since.
> 
> Not a safe place for a woman alone at night.


I have been to N.O. with my wife a few times on our way from DFW to Florida. We stay in the French quarter. But we are not out late at night when we go.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

I don't have the time right now to read through this thread but I plan to. I'll just add my .02 in. 

I took separate vacations from my husband for 20 years of the 22 years that we lived together. What broke our marriage up after 24 years had NOTHING to do with this. In fact, if he had not allowed me go away to do my own thing on my own I wouldn't have stayed married to him for as long as I did.

I traveled ALONE cross country for 2 weeks on my own. I traveled ALONE from Quebec, Canada to south Florida numerous times. I have been hiking, camping, skiing, etc by myself and with friends for years. My husband also went away with friends to events (he wasn't one to travel alone). He never cheated on me and I never cheated on him. It was not a factor in our marriage breaking up. Many people to some extent need their alone time. They need time away from their spouse with friends, family and yes, even on their own. 

Being married doesn't mean being joined at the waist sharing one brain. What it should be is about trusting the other person and giving them their space at times and when/if THAT doesn't happen then there is something wrong with the relationship, not with person or the simple act of going on vacation to do something that your spouse might not share with you or enjoy doing it. You don't HAVE to be with the other person ALL the time doing the same things always. It's not natural for many to WANT to be this way. 

So I see no point in having a problem if a person wants to on vacation alone. Some of us LIKE being alone sometimes and often the reuniting upon getting back home is the best part. 

So I always encourage keeping an open mind about this. IMO, suffocating a person is a FAR worse scenario in my mind is a recipe for disaster and THAT will lead to a bad marriage and unfaithfulness far sooner than taking a solo vacation will.


----------



## Anon Pink

Awe Cody, my heart is breaking for you and your wife. 

I don't know if she is a fan of Anne Rice novels about LeStat the vampire all set in NewOrleans but I know when I was reading them I had this fantasy of going to New Orleans, sitting in a cafe by myself and just watching the people. 

Just because she has this fantasy doesn't mean she is looking to hook up, or step out, or end the marriage at all, IMO.

I keep coming back to her making desperate attempts to 
Be the Undamaged Confident Mysterious Woman. It is a picture painted in a lot of different novels that is highly romantic and fully based in fantasy land. And that's where you wife is. 

In her Fantasyland she is not in danger, she makes safe decisions and there is no risk. Should a real risk present itself, a mysterious stranger will come to the rescue.

I wonder if you were the private eye... If you put yourself in the position of mysterious stranger, and let hope its not needed, if you tailed her and trailed while she remained unaware... until the last night there.

See where I'm going with this? You let her do her thing because she feels so strongly she needs to do it, but that shouldn't stop you from doing something you feel you need to do, if you do feel that strongly.

How do you think she would react to the guy who's been tailing her (and that would be you) ending up buying her a drink and escorting her back to her room?


----------



## Shaggy

@freak... Except in this case she has already cybersex cheated on him,.


----------



## JustAnotherMan

Cody...

She won't let you do anything to help protect her and you won't insist on protecting her. IE moving out and now not going on the trip.

You can't make any decisions or even have input for fear you will lose her.

She makes all the decisions and is running wreckless, quietly wild, with no regard for her or anyone elses safety or feelings.

And you're OK with this?

just spineless


----------



## Toffer

"I am seriously considering hiring a PI in New Orleans to watch over her" 

Please be sure you do this!!!!

She has also promised me that she will be to her room no later than midnight and will not under any circumstances go into anyone else room or allow anyone into her room.

You'll never know where she is unless you intiate the call to her room EVERY NIGHT at 12:01 AM. She'll also be able to tell anyone who's there to keep it down

Second when she confessed he video chat I was NOT happy with her at all and did not brush it under that table. She was basically begging me to forgive her and not end our relationship. She swore to me that it was not pleasant for her and that she would never do it again. It took about 3 days before I spoke to her again and told her my feelings. 

O M G. This is why I would not let her go without me! It troubles me that you still feel all this is OK


----------



## Toffer

Freak On a Leash said:


> I don't have the time right now to read through this thread but I plan to. I'll just add my .02 in.
> 
> Read the thread. The wife has already participated in some unsavory behavior


----------



## JustAnotherMan

Anon Pink said:


> Awe Cody, my heart is breaking for you and your wife.
> 
> I don't know if she is a fan of Anne Rice novels about LeStat the vampire all set in NewOrleans but I know when I was reading them I had this fantasy of going to New Orleans, sitting in a cafe by myself and just watching the people.
> 
> Just because she has this fantasy doesn't mean she is looking to hook up, or step out, or end the marriage at all, IMO.
> 
> I keep coming back to her making desperate attempts to
> Be the Undamaged Confident Mysterious Woman. It is a picture painted in a lot of different novels that is highly romantic and fully based in fantasy land. And that's where you wife is.
> 
> In her Fantasyland she is not in danger, she makes safe decisions and there is no risk. Should a real risk present itself, a mysterious stranger will come to the rescue.
> 
> *I wonder if you were the private eye... If you put yourself in the position of mysterious stranger, and let hope its not needed, if you tailed her and trailed while she remained unaware... until the last night there.
> 
> See where I'm going with this? You let her do her thing because she feels so strongly she needs to do it, but that shouldn't stop you from doing something you feel you need to do, if you do feel that strongly.
> 
> How do you think she would react to the guy who's been tailing her (and that would be you) ending up buying her a drink and escorting her back to her room?*




I would agree with this idea....


----------



## DavidWYoung

I know that I am VERY late in this one but "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SAFE PLACE IN THE FRENCH QUARTER" I know, I used to work near there and live there!

Yes, you are a very nice guy!

Yes, this is going to end very badly!

Yes, you are going to ignore all of the advice that 10 bijillion people have given you. You don't want to upset your poor wife, I understand.

Please keep writing us. Thank you David


----------



## Machiavelli

Anon Pink said:


> How do you think she would react to the guy who's been tailing her (and that would be you) ending up buying her a drink and escorting her back to her room?


Cody's wife upon Cody revealing his presence: _"You G#d D#maned Sonuva*****! Spying on me, You G#d D#mned Stalker! I'm getting a restraining order!!!"_

Now that wouldn't happen on her last night, it would be on the first night when he stops them from going up to her room.


----------



## Cody1980

Deejo said:


> You need to find your feet. You need to be leading and participating in this endeavor rather than being a passive, hurt, angry, spectator.
> 
> You want to save your marriage? Then you need to be prepared to sacrifice it.
> 
> Start making plans to move back in. Doesn't require a discussion. Only requires a decision ... from you.


A lot of you are right, a lot of you are wrong, and I hope that a lot more of you will be proven wrong.

I agree with the statements said in the above post and some other posts that mention me as "spineless".

I wasn't always this way. The past few months have lead me down this path of "ass kissery" and my wife knows this. I miss the old me as does my wife. It is something we have talked about in our MC session. It is also the reason why one of my goals from my MC is stop expressing my feelings to her so much. For the past few weeks I have been a bit cut off from her and have been saving all my thoughts and feelings for our MC sessions. I stop telling her "I love you" first because I got upset with she did not return the sentiment. I stopped saying "Good night" because I became upset when she did not respond. Other things like this that would make me upset because for some reason I immediately think the worst. Eg. when she did not return my "Good night" I thought is was because she didn't want to. The thought never crossed my mind that she might have gone to bed early.

It is also why I cam here, so I can vent some of my issues in private.

I want to be the man and have a spine. How can I do that while still portray a since of non schlants (coolly unconcerned, indifferent, or unexcited) that has had very positive effect on our relationship.

I what to show that I have a backbone but I am afraid of pushing her away.

Here is what I decided.

First off, I will hire a PI for New Orleans to follow her the two nights she will be potentially going out (technically she is there for 4 nights but she doesn't get in until way late and she leaves super early). Mostly so I can feel better about her being alone and for her safety. But also because if there is a "smoking gun" they will probably find evidence while she is there. 

Doing this tells me that I do not 100% trust her to make good decisions for herself. I can live with that if it provides me with the peace of mind of knowing she is not alone. Also if she doesn't do a single thing to betray my trust I will know that I can trust her completely. If he finds the smoking gun, I have my reason to cut the cord.

Second, I will speak with my MC about planning a cut off date for me moving back in. I want his opinion on the subject and how to broach it with her. I have a private session coming up in the next few weeks (actually, I scheduled it for when she is gone) and I will discuss it with him then. I think three months is long enough to live away from from home so my cut off date will be April 4th.

At that point if for some reason I am not living at home or things have taken a turn for the worst I will file for divorce and cut her off financially. I may not be able to cut her off 100% financially. I will always love her no matter what and don't want her to starve or be homeless, if I find out by then that she is a total liar and a cheat it will be 100%.

Keep posting people. In some ways this thread has been good for me in some ways bad. Either way is has been a healthy discussion for me to have.


----------



## Dawn of Man

Cody1980 said:


> I want to be the man and have a spine. How can I do that while still portray a since of non schlants (coolly unconcerned, indifferent, or unexcited) that has had very positive effect on our relationship.


Read MMSL yesterday...



Cody1980 said:


> Doing this tells me that I do not 100% trust her to make good decisions for herself.


Think of it as her body making persuading her one way and her mind another. The more detached from you she becomes, the easier it is for her mind to reconcile with what the body wants.


----------



## Wiserforit

We can pretty much count on *Cody* liking the advice that champions his actions. (The actions and kind of thinking that brought him to this forum in the first place.) 

Yes, the wife who is telling him to leave her alone and let her act out whatever fantasies she has in New Orleans is going to be thrilled at the beta husband tailing her like a little puppy dog.

Of course it will play out just like this mindless fairy tale. She won't recognize her own husband, no - and he'll be this movie-star quality 007 James Bond action figure flawlessly executing the surveilance. She won't get drunk like before nor engage with other men like before. 

I'm still waiting on what the family saw in her, and I think it is the same things we are seeing.


----------



## TRy

Cody1980 said:


> I believe she will go on this trip no matter what I say or do. If I simply say "I forbid you to go on the trip without me" or if I simply just force myself into the vacation I think it will end my marriage. In some ways I would rather her go on this vacation with my blessings than without.
> 
> Honestly I am afraid of losing her.


 Your fear of losing her why you will lose her. She cannot be in love with you if she does not respect you, and to be blunt you are not acting in a way worthy of her respect. 

You are bankrolling her going on a trip to party with other men. She probably is going there to meet with a specific man. Your claim that she is doing it with her own money is bull since if you did not pay all her bills she would have to use that money for that. Her what is mine is mine, and what is yours is ours, point of view is warped and unfair to you and not what married people do. Demand that she not go on this party trip. Tell her that if she goes that you will be filing for divorce and mean it. If you do not do this, you deserve the lack of respect that she has for you, and your marraige will be over unless you accept her cheating as something you willing to accept by looking the other way.


----------



## KanDo

Cody1980 said:


> I believe she will go on this trip no matter what I say or do. If I simply say "I forbid you to go on the trip without me" or if I simply just force myself into the vacation I think it will end my marriage. In some ways I would rather her go on this vacation with my blessings than without.
> 
> *Honestly I am afraid of losing her*.




And that is the root of your problem. .....


P.S> Can I put in a vote for a "dislike" button or a "BS" button!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Cody1980 said:


> At the end she said very important to me. She said "I need you to be on board with this and be happy for me. I will not be able to enjoy myself if I know you are worried about what I may or may not do, or what might happen to me. Damn it Cody, you are my husband, my best friend, and I love you to death. I need you to trust and support on this decision."


Intentional or not, this is manipulation. Just as her feels are real and valid, so are yours. She can't order you not to feel them any more than you can order her not to feel hers. You need to make that clear to her. 

With it, you need to make clear that honesty means just that - it is not always about being nice and not hurting the other persons feelings. Sometimes it is about telling the other persons things that they won't like. She needs to understand that, and that it goes both ways.

Finally, you need to make clear that her needs do not always take precedent over yours. They may at times, just as yours may come first at times. But they are equal. Her statement above could be read as her stating that her needs are more important. In view of her situation, beware of that becoming her default position. Not saying it has, only that it could easily become that.


----------



## Cody1980

TRy said:


> Your fear of losing her why you will lose her. She cannot be in love with you if she does not respect you, and to be blunt you are not acting in a way worthy of her respect.
> 
> You are bankrolling her going on a trip to party with other men. She probably is going there to meet with a specific man. Your claim that she is doing it with her own money is bull since if you did not pay all her bills she would have to use that money for that. Her what is mine is mine, and what is yours is ours, point of view is warped and unfair to you and not what married people do. Demand that she not go on this party trip. Tell her that if she goes that you will be filing for divorce and mean it. If you do not do this, you deserve the lack of respect that she has for you, and your marraige will be over unless you accept her cheating as something you willing to accept by looking the other way.


You are right, the less and less I fear losing her and the more and more I realize that I will be ok (in many ways better) without her the better I feel about the whole situation. At the same time she is seriously drawn to me when I act this way.

E.G. One night on my way home from work she called and asked me to come over and hang out. I basically said "let me think about that". She texted me 20 times over the next day and eventually asked me to move back in within 3 days (I did not, see older post). So basically me being an ass and ignoring her a little bit made me very desirable to her. WTF!!! As of just recently I am starting to get that "Hand" back by being a bit closed off but it has been slow.

I know that I need to regain her respect, I thought that me showing her I can give her space and trust her would be a way to regain that respect. I can see how it can have the opposite effect on her perception of me.

I know that me supporting her financially is the only reason she's allowed to go on this trip.

I still cannot lead myself to giving her an ultimatum that I believe will end our marriage. Also, and this is 100% my fault how can I forbid her at this point when I have been supportive of her vacation up to this point (I'm a day late and a dollar short).

Doesn't me having a PI tail her achieve the same effect as me forcing myself on the vacation without the ultimatum I really am 75% concerned for her safety and 25% worried she will hook up. The PI should take care of both concerns.

I am not apposed to ultimatum, I mentioned one in an earlier post about me asking to move back in by April 4th. I think it is a reasonable one. One I can stand behind and one I won't regret. Also, it does not portray any distrust I may have for her.

I hate defending this stuff. In part I feel that I am saying this stuff to convince myself more than you. I am a very logical person and can see the truth behind most perspectives of this situation. Right now I just choose not to believe that the person I love and am married to is not that person I fear.

So my plan stays...

1. Be a man. Stick up for myself and in the future don't be such a push over. Put my wants before hers. Realize that I'm a mfing catch. I mean I'm a 6'4", 250lbs, tall dark and handsome, hunk of a man that gets hit on and propositioned all the time at bars (by women hotter than my wife).

2. Hire a PI to follow her on her trip. To give me piece of mind and potentially produce a smoking gun that will give me a guilt free / regret free way out of this marriage.

3. To give her an ultimatum that I either move back home on April 4th or that this marriage is done.


----------



## tom67

You don't ask her to move back in you tell her when you are moving back in.:banghead:


----------



## Faithful Wife

Cody - is there a part of this story that you aren't telling us?

Something like...You cheated on her before?

You two have had group sex with others previously?

You had an addiction?

Something doesn't add up in your story. Seems like you are carrying huge guilt for something and that is part of why you are letting her run the show.

I apologize in advance if I am wrong. And even if I am right, you obviously don't have to disclose anything you don't want to. But I keep reading something between the lines here, and I don't know what it is but it definitely affects your situation.


----------



## Cubby

Cody this is the way I see your marriage: You've mentioned a couple of times that your marriage is fairly unconventional. That you're very open about things sexually. Machiavelli, in a previous post referred to you as a hipster, metrosexual type. So I assume you're more the sensitive type, who tries to be above being jealous, would never want to be called controlling, doesn't see yourself as the head of the household, sees the marriage more as an equal partnership, 'best friends' with your wife, etc.

I think all of these traits you have are colliding with your wife's natural, hard-wired inclination to be repelled by the way you are. And I don't think she realizes it. Most women are naturally attracted to a strong, firm, confident, more of a traditional man's man. The kind of man who doesn't take crap from anyone. 

It's taken most of my life to realize that the sensitive, 'best-friend-to-women' types aren't the kind of men that women lust after. 

I'm certain that your "laid-back, let her know I love her, and I'm here for her" approach is doomed. Your only chance is to take charge and make it clear that you want the issue resolved one way or the other. Lose your fear.

Edit: I wrote this before I read your post #180. You're starting to realize this, although you're not quite there yet. Please read Married Man Sex Life to more fully understand how this stuff works.


----------



## bfree

Cody1980 said:


> A lot of you are right, a lot of you are wrong, and I hope that a lot more of you will be proven wrong.


Well, I was wrong once. I believe it was in 1983. I thought I was wrong again in 1991 but it turns out I was wrong about being wrong. So that's a case where two wrongs did make a right......right?

Seriously Cody, I really think you are screwing the pooch here. You are trying to rationalize things consistantly going against what is millions of years of evolution and biology. Women want strong decisive men who take action. Women want men who can stand up for them and to them when necessary. Women want men who they can respect and who respect themselves. I sincerely hope you are right but I am pretty sure you'll be single in a very short time.


----------



## Toffer

"It is also the reason why one of my goals from my MC is stop expressing my feelings to her so much. For the past few weeks I have been a bit cut off from her and have been saving all my thoughts and feelings for our MC sessions"

I hope you're not getting all mushy with her at the MC sessions! Please tell me you're not!


----------



## coffee4me

Cody1980 said:


> So my plan stays...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.* Be a man*. Stick up for myself and* in the future *don't be such a push over. Put my wants before hers. Realize that I'm a mfing catch. I mean I'm a 6'4", 250lbs, tall dark and handsome, hunk of a man that gets hit on and propositioned all the time at bars (by women hotter than my wife).
> 
> 
> 
> There's no time like the present.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Hire a PI to follow her on her trip. To give me piece of mind and potentially produce a smoking gun *that will give me a guilt free / regret free way out of this marriage.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You already have a guilt free way out of this marriage. It is completely unreasonable for your wife to ask her to support her financially pay for her living expenses and frivolous vacations AND exclude you from her life. She doesn't want you to live with her or go on vacation with her. That is a grounds for divorce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. To *give her an ultimatum that I either move back home on April 4th *or that this marriage is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right before this you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not apposed to *ultimatum*, I mentioned one in an earlier post about me *asking to move back *in by April 4th. I think it is a reasonable one. One I can stand behind and one I won't regret. Also, *it does not portray any distrust I may have for her*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are issuing an ultimatum it's not a request. It's a statement or a demand. If you don't trust her sidestepping that will do nothing to resolve your issues with her. Mistrust must be confronted not avoided.
Click to expand...


----------



## Cody1980

tom67 said:


> You don't ask her to move back in you tell her when you are moving back in.:banghead:


You are absolute right. 

I tell her "I am moving back home on April 4th. You can either except it and we move forward or I want a divorce. "

How is that for direct?


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

> Cody1980
> I want to be the man and have a spine. How can I do that while still portray a since of non schlants (coolly unconcerned, indifferent, or unexcited) *that has had very positive effect on our relationship*.


If your situation were not so DIRE, I would laugh! The reason your sense of nonchalance APPEARS to work is because by 'acting nonchalant' you are REFUSING to call her on her BS! You are letting her do whatever she wants to do with NO OBJECTION or INTERFERENCE from you. 

OF COURSE this makes a "POSITIVE EFFECT"...she's positively HAPPY that you're not interfering with her 'single life' by harping, complaining, demanding, calling to account, etc.

Let's just make a little list here...(I love lists!)

She just received her (as-yet-unpaid-for) degree.
She just lost a significant amount of weight.
She decided to take the new slim body out for a spin via cyber-sex to see if she's still got (at 32yo) what it takes to make men notice. Apparently she does; hence the cyber-sex.
She told you she was going out with girlfriends, but unfortunately circumstances bore out the falseness of her assertions. She was obviously ALONE when she was attacked. Had she been alone for just 1/2 hour since girlfriends left? Hour and a half since girlfriends went home? Many hours? Had girlfriends EVEN BEEN at the establishment with her AT ALL that evening (based on anything other than HER word or her friends' word, who would have her back!)?
She thinks you two should separate.
She needs a vacay ALONE in a city NOTORIOUS for drunkeness, random ONS, crazy-assed sex, and crime everywhere (considering I live in Detroit, *THAT* is SAYING SOMETHING!)
She needs to be "that mysterious girl" (uh, as someone else pointed out, the one that MYSTERIOUS TALL, DARK & HANDSOME is going to take home for some steamy sex? You bet your ass!) [and you WILL be betting your ass...with possible STDs]
*She is getting ready to DUMP YOUR ASS.* 
She is taking her shiny new diploma (as yet UNPAID for), her new svelte body, and she's looking for a job in HER FIELD in SOME OTHER CITY.

She is looking for a new life. A new job. A new guy. A new place to "invent" a NEW HER.

She WILL dump you. And she'll tell YOU that she's doing it FOR YOU! Because you deserve "better"; you deserve "more", you deserve someone "so much better for you than me!"

And you'll BUY it. All of it. And I'll bet you anything, when the dust settles from the divorce, you'll be buying her student loans, too!

But, alas for YOU, you won't believe ME, or anyone else here on TAM. All you can see is that she's SO HONEST. She admitted the cyber-sex...SEE how honest she is?!? Doesn't BOTHER YOU that she DID IT....just that you weren't there to VIEW IT.

What I don't get is *WHY* you're so desperate to hang onto a woman who:

doesn't say 'I love you' back when you tell her you love her
wants to live separately from you
wants to 'role play' in a dangerous city after one already UNFORTUNATE incident
can't get along with any of your family
can't get along with any of your friends
runs your entire marriage SELFISHLY with NO REGARD for your feelings or desires

One last question (*it goes along with the still not-adequately answered question about WHY your family and friends can't stand her*):

You say even if you divorce her (which I don't see how THAT would ever happen as you say you're "afraid to lose her"...why spend the $$$ for a PI? You're not going to believe or act on anything he tells you ANYWAY!!) you would still support her to some degree because you wouldn't want to leave her homeless...

*WHERE IS HER FAMILY IN ALL THIS? 
DOES SHE GET ALONG WITH THEM better than with YOUR family?*


----------



## TRy

Cody1980 said:


> I still cannot lead myself to giving her an ultimatum that I believe will end our marriage. Also, and this is 100% my fault how can I forbid her at this point when I have been supportive of her vacation up to this point (I'm a day late and a dollar short).


 Tell her that you have a right to change your mind now that you have thought about it. Hotels are fully 100% refundable if canceled in advance. The fight can be moved again to a trip that you are going on. Dude you are not just a dating couple. You are husband and wife and it is time that she acknowledge this with something other than words. She takes the financial advantages of being your wife, but does not want to accept the normal commitments that go with being your wife. This must end now. Tell her that you tried to be supportive but that their is a difference between being supportive and being a fool. That in light of her recent indiscretions, you are not ashamed to tell her that you do not trust her 100%. Tell her that this trip is a deal breaker and is the last straw in her ignoring he marraige to you.

Not one person on this board agrees with your approch. Being weak and letting her run you over is not working, it is time to do something different. Albert Einstein said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."


----------



## MrK

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> What I don't get is *WHY* you're so desperate to hang onto a woman who:
> 
> doesn't say 'I love you' back when you tell her you love her
> wants to live separately from you
> wants to 'role play' in a dangerous city after one already UNFORTUNATE incident
> can't get along with any of your family
> can't get along with any of your friends
> runs your entire marriage SELFISHLY with NO REGARD for your feelings or desires



When you put it THAT way...


----------



## coffee4me

TRy said:


> Tell her that you have a right to change your mind now that you have thought about it. Hotels are fully 100% refundable if canceled in advance. *The fight can be moved again to a trip that you are going on. *Dude you are not just a dating couple. You are husband and wife and it is time that she acknowledge this with something other than words. She takes the financial advantages of being your wife, but does not want to accept the normal commitments that go with being your wife. This must end now. Tell her that you tried to be supportive but that their is a difference between being supportive and being a fool. That in light of her recent indiscretions, you are not ashamed to tell her that you do not trust her 100%. Tell her that this trip is a deal breaker and is the last straw in her ignoring he marraige to you.
> 
> Not one person on this board agrees with your approch. Being weak and letting her run you over is not working, it is time to do something different. Albert Einstein said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."


I actually think the flight should be used for Cody's use or one of his family members. He said that the the $$ for the flight was a gift to go on a FAMILY VACATION with his family. Since she cannot get along with his family she is not going on the trip. Why is then ok for her to use the gift for her own selfish reasons. This was not the intent of the gift and frankly if I was his family it would be one more reason to dislike her.


----------



## TRy

coffee4me said:


> You already have a guilt free way out of this marriage. It is completely unreasonable for your wife to ask her to support her financially pay for her living expenses and frivolous vacations AND exclude you from her life. She doesn't want you to live with her or go on vacation with her. That is a grounds for divorce.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Well said. I could not have said it any better. That in a nutshell sums up what everyone has been trying to say.


----------



## Cody1980

Cubby said:


> Cody this is the way I see your marriage: You've mentioned a couple of times that your marriage is fairly unconventional. That you're very open about things sexually. Machiavelli, in a previous post referred to you as a hipster, metrosexual type. So I assume you're more the sensitive type, who tries to be above being jealous, would never want to be called controlling, doesn't see yourself as the head of the household, sees the marriage more as an equal partnership, 'best friends' with your wife, etc.
> 
> I think all of these traits you have are colliding with your wife's natural, hard-wired inclination to be repelled by the way you are. And I don't think she realizes it. Most women are naturally attracted to a strong, firm, confident, more of a traditional man's man. The kind of man who doesn't take crap from anyone.
> 
> It's taken most of my life to realize that the sensitive, 'best-friend-to-women' types aren't the kind of men that women lust after.
> 
> I'm certain that your "laid-back, let her know I love her, and I'm here for her" approach is doomed. Your only chance is to take charge and make it clear that you want the issue resolved one way or the other. Lose your fear.
> 
> Edit: I wrote this before I read your post #180. You're starting to realize this, although you're not quite there yet. Please read Married Man Sex Life to more fully understand how this stuff works.





bfree said:


> Well, I was wrong once. I believe it was in 1983. I thought I was wrong again in 1991 but it turns out I was wrong about being wrong. So that's a case where two wrongs did make a right......right?
> 
> Seriously Cody, I really think you are screwing the pooch here. You are trying to rationalize things consistantly going against what is millions of years of evolution and biology. Women want strong decisive men who take action. Women want men who can stand up for them and to them when necessary. Women want men who they can respect and who respect themselves. I sincerely hope you are right but I am pretty sure you'll be single in a very short time.


So basically, man the f up big time and be the guys she married. 

You are 100% correct In this statement...

_I assume you're more the sensitive type, who tries to be above being jealous, would never want to be called controlling, doesn't see yourself as the head of the household, sees the marriage more as an equal partnership, 'best friends' with your wife, etc._

Over the last 6 months I have taken it to a different level. Basically I put her on a pedestal. Always asking "How are you feeling?" "Are you ok?" so on a so forth to the point were my emotions began to control me and I became a sniveling whiny little *****. I have been getting better, especially since I moved out, but I need to do more, 

Two months ago I would have done anything she asked of me. Now I am starting to gain a back bone but I need to take it a step further. Any tips or advice on the following common situations and how to "man up" within them.

1. She asks me to do something I don't want to or don't feel like doing at that moment (go out, come over, etc.).

2. She calls or texts me looking for emotional support (she had a rough day, she didn't get a particular job)

3. She needs me or the car when I am busy with something else.

4. She talks to me about something I'm not comfortable talking about.

5. she doing something that makes me unhappy (not including the vacation, I've kind of made up my mind on what to do there).

In the future I will be posting specific situations and hopefully you all can tell how I could have "manned up" to deal with them.

The fact is I can see the writing on the wall. I know it will eventually be me that decides the fate of my marriage and not her and that the day of reckoning is coming.


----------



## bfree

Cody1980 said:


> I still cannot lead myself to giving her an ultimatum that I believe will end our marriage.


It is just as likely, in fact more likely, that giving such an ultimatum is the one thing that may save your marriage.


----------



## tom67

Cody1980 said:


> You are absolute right.
> 
> I tell her "I am moving back home on April 4th. You can either except it and we move forward or I want a divorce. "
> 
> How is that for direct?


That's it. Get ready for her to tell you I love you but not in love with you speech when she gets back. Get a few consultations with attorneys next week if you can and know your rights/options. Prepare for the worst and you won't be disappointed just sayin.


----------



## tom67

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> If your situation were not so DIRE, I would laugh! The reason your sense of nonchalance APPEARS to work is because by 'acting nonchalant' you are REFUSING to call her on her BS! You are letting her do whatever she wants to do with NO OBJECTION or INTERFERENCE from you.
> 
> OF COURSE this makes a "POSITIVE EFFECT"...she's positively HAPPY that you're not interfering with her 'single life' by harping, complaining, demanding, calling to account, etc.
> 
> Let's just make a little list here...(I love lists!)
> 
> She just received her (as-yet-unpaid-for) degree.
> She just lost a significant amount of weight.
> She decided to take the new slim body out for a spin via cyber-sex to see if she's still got (at 32yo) what it takes to make men notice. Apparently she does; hence the cyber-sex.
> She told you she was going out with girlfriends, but unfortunately circumstances bore out the falseness of her assertions. She was obviously ALONE when she was attacked. Had she been alone for just 1/2 hour since girlfriends left? Hour and a half since girlfriends went home? Many hours? Had girlfriends EVEN BEEN at the establishment with her AT ALL that evening (based on anything other than HER word or her friends' word, who would have her back!)?
> She thinks you two should separate.
> She needs a vacay ALONE in a city NOTORIOUS for drunkeness, random ONS, crazy-assed sex, and crime everywhere (considering I live in Detroit, *THAT* is SAYING SOMETHING!)
> She needs to be "that mysterious girl" (uh, as someone else pointed out, the one that MYSTERIOUS TALL, DARK & HANDSOME is going to take home for some steamy sex? You bet your ass!) [and you WILL be betting your ass...with possible STDs]
> *She is getting ready to DUMP YOUR ASS.*
> She is taking her shiny new diploma (as yet UNPAID for), her new svelte body, and she's looking for a job in HER FIELD in SOME OTHER CITY.
> 
> She is looking for a new life. A new job. A new guy. A new place to "invent" a NEW HER.
> 
> She WILL dump you. And she'll tell YOU that she's doing it FOR YOU! Because you deserve "better"; you deserve "more", you deserve someone "so much better for you than me!"
> 
> And you'll BUY it. All of it. And I'll bet you anything, when the dust settles from the divorce, you'll be buying her student loans, too!
> 
> But, alas for YOU, you won't believe ME, or anyone else here on TAM. All you can see is that she's SO HONEST. She admitted the cyber-sex...SEE how honest she is?!? Doesn't BOTHER YOU that she DID IT....just that you weren't there to VIEW IT.
> 
> What I don't get is *WHY* you're so desperate to hang onto a woman who:
> 
> doesn't say 'I love you' back when you tell her you love her
> wants to live separately from you
> wants to 'role play' in a dangerous city after one already UNFORTUNATE incident
> can't get along with any of your family
> can't get along with any of your friends
> runs your entire marriage SELFISHLY with NO REGARD for your feelings or desires
> 
> One last question (*it goes along with the still not-adequately answered question about WHY your family and friends can't stand her*):
> 
> You say even if you divorce her (which I don't see how THAT would ever happen as you say you're "afraid to lose her"...why spend the $$$ for a PI? You're not going to believe or act on anything he tells you ANYWAY!!) you would still support her to some degree because you wouldn't want to leave her homeless...
> 
> *WHERE IS HER FAMILY IN ALL THIS?
> DOES SHE GET ALONG WITH THEM better than with YOUR family?*


SGW hit this one out of the ball park.:iagree:This is what WILL happen if you do not "man up" and un nice yourself asap jmo.


----------



## TRy

Cody1980 said:


> You are absolute right.
> 
> I tell her "I am moving back home on April 4th. You can either except it and we move forward or I want a divorce. "
> 
> How is that for direct?


 If you want to do it right, do not wait for April 4th. There is not good reason for you to wait until then. Tell her that "You either want to be my wife or you do not want to be my wife and a wife wants me to move in with her right now." Then look her in the eye and say "Which is it, do you want to be my wife or not? If not lets get the divorce paperwork started now."


----------



## Cody1980

Some detail about her family life and issue with my family.

Her father was verbally, physically, and sexually abusive to her and her brother. She has not seen or spoken to him in 8 year. Her mother is a big burden and more of a daughter to her. They don;t see each other much and they do not get along. She sees her brother the most at about once every other months. She hardly ever sees her sister. Basically she is not close to her family at all while I have always been very close to mine.

In the beginning she loved my family (even my crazy arsh older sister) and considered them her own. Now she considers most them them controlling and disrespectful.

My crazy sister emailed me and my family saying that she though my wife was cheating on me, that she had lied about being sexually assaulted, and basically saying she is bad for me. The email eventually made it back to my wife and she responded in kind calling my sister out on all her bs to my entire family. I have mentioned before that I think my sister is a horrible person. Basically my wife called her out on it. My sister then turned most of my family against my wife saying "either her or me". She was pregnant with her first child at the time and my family obviously choose her.

This was her deciding factor on not going on the family vacation. Up until this point she was very excited about going. She had planned most of it (the beach house, activities, flights, etc.).


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Forgot to add what a previous poster noted:

GO SEE A DIVORCE ATTORNEY! The initial visit is usually FREE or CHEAP. Do it while she's in N.O.

You don't have to FILE for divorce, but you DO have to get knowledgeable about what to expect, how much it will cost, how long it will take and whether YOU will be expected to pay HER student debt or pay her any spousal maintenance/support (used to be called alimony) for a limited period.

It would be WISE of you to get this information even if you think you may never need it. Better to have info you DON'T need, than to be scrambling to get educated AFTER the shyt has already hit the fan!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Cody, did you see my post on the previous page?


----------



## totamm

Cody1980 said:


> I briefly mentioned that I was worried about her and wished she wasn't going alone. Also, that I was totally willing to drop everything and go with her (I didn't want to demand to go with her I also didn't want to flat out ask her permission to go with her).


You briefly (and cautiously) mentioned your concerns. It's like you're tiptoeing around her, walking on eggshells. Why not just come right out and explain it in a comprehensive way using much of the information you've obtained here about how freaking crazy it is and get pissed off when you say it?



Cody1980 said:


> Her response was that she needs to go on this trip 100% alone.


Shocking.



Cody1980 said:


> Specifically quoted she said "I want to be that mysterious girl in a restaurant eating by herself." She swore to me that she is not doing this to meet or even interact with any people (or specific persons)


She wants to have some sort of affect on the people around her even though she doesn't want to interact with anyone. This is wacked. She is not thinking clearly.



Cody1980 said:


> I want to sleep late, and go to bed early."


In other words, she wants to sleep late because she's going to bed late. 



Cody1980 said:


> So basically she was saying to me... "I am going on this trip for myself, not to hookup. I am 32 years old and an adult, you can trust me to make smart decisions"


Well she certainly can't say "I'm going on this trip to hookup, you can't trust me because I've made some really bad decisions lately". Even though that's the truth.



Cody1980 said:


> At the end she said very important to me. She said "I need you to be on board with this and be happy for me. I will not be able to enjoy myself if I know you are worried about what I may or may not do, or what might happen to me. Damn it Cody, you are my husband, my best friend, and I love you to death. I need you to trust and support on this decision."


She's basically saying, drop the subject and let me have fun. Why is that important to you? 



Cody1980 said:


> At that point I said something to the effect of "I will try".


Weak. "How about Of course I'm going to be worried about you, this trip is INSANE! and the only thing I do agree with is that until you're deemed mentally unfit, you are an adult and able to make your own decisions and there's nothing I can do to stop you but that doesn't mean I agree with it one bit!"



Cody1980 said:


> I stayed at home for the first time in week


Yeah because she didn't ask you to leave.



Cody1980 said:


> but we both thought it best that I sleep in the spare room.


She thought it best that you sleep in the spare room. If it was up to you, there would be sex.



Cody1980 said:


> In my head I knew it was a good idea but as a human of the male persuasion my penis brain was like "dude, shut the f up".


Like I said, the no sex was HER choice. If it was up to you, it would have been right in there.



Cody1980 said:


> So it is a day later and I feel a little better about the situation.


For no good reason.





Cody1980 said:


> She has also promised me that she will be to her room no later than midnight and will not under any circumstances go into anyone else room or allow anyone into her room.


Great. That's a promise she knows (or thinks) she doesn't have to keep. 



Cody1980 said:


> For now, I am going to fight like hell for my marriage but I am not going to do anything to push her into making a rash decision.


You're not fighting, that's the problem.



Cody1980 said:


> My crazy sister emailed me and my family saying that she though my wife was cheating on me, that she had lied about being sexually assaulted


Your sister might not be so crazy.


----------



## terrence4159

there is another post on this site cody and i cant remember what one, the guy hired a pi to follow his wofe when she left on a trip called her a 10pm she said doing nothing trust me he called the pi and told him to back off he was done he trusted his wife............2 hrs later the pi called him the guy i told you to back off pi yeah good thing i didnt she is in a guys hotel room right now!!!


----------



## Cody1980

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Forgot to add what a previous poster noted:
> 
> GO SEE A DIVORCE ATTORNEY! The initial visit is usually FREE or CHEAP. Do it while she's in N.O.
> 
> You don't have to FILE for divorce, but you DO have to get knowledgeable about what to expect, how much it will cost, how long it will take and whether YOU will be expected to pay HER student debt or pay her any spousal maintenance/support (used to be called alimony) for a limited period.
> 
> It would be WISE of you to get this information even if you think you may never need it. Better to have info you DON'T need, than to be scrambling to get educated AFTER the shyt has already hit the fan!


Good advise, I will plan ahead. 

All I know about divorce in my state is that it is a "no fault" state. Also, I have just as much Student loan debt left as her.

I don't she will be a "greedy" divorce wife but it pays to be prepared.


----------



## terrence4159

in order to SAVE this marriage you have to be willing to LOSE it!!! yeah ultimatums tell her flat out im back in tomorrow or you will have divorce papers when you come back from NO. me personally i know you wont do it i would flat out tell her i dont trust her on this trip alone and i would let her know i would be having a PI following her down there. (ps if my wife said vacation alone without you she wouldnt have a home to come back to, she knows this thing is cody SHE doent want to vacation without me)


----------



## SomedayDig

SomedayDig said:


> Ya know...you shouldn't lump everyone into a sack of your own projections. I know I'm not bitter, but *I simply believe I see a particular font on the wall.*
> 
> I suggest the OP take off any blinders he may have on and look at this for what it is.
> 
> His wife wants to go to New Orleans solo...after what happened in the past even.
> 
> Not cool.





Cody1980 said:


> *The fact is I can see the writing on the wall.* I know it will eventually be me that decides the fate of my marriage and not her and that the day of reckoning is coming.


My bolded statement was from like Post #37 and yours is post #193 or something.

Don't be blinded by anything, man. See things for what they are.


----------



## Cody1980

Faithful Wife said:


> Cody - is there a part of this story that you aren't telling us?
> 
> Something like...You cheated on her before?
> 
> You two have had group sex with others previously?
> 
> You had an addiction?
> 
> Something doesn't add up in your story. Seems like you are carrying huge guilt for something and that is part of why you are letting her run the show.
> 
> I apologize in advance if I am wrong. And even if I am right, you obviously don't have to disclose anything you don't want to. But I keep reading something between the lines here, and I don't know what it is but it definitely affects your situation.


To answer your questions...

I have never cheated on her (or anyone else for that matter).

We have never had group sex with others.

I am not an addict. I like to drink and sometimes I smoke pot, but so does she. Usually we do these things together.

As for guilt.... one of the last things I said to my wife before she went out the night of her sexual assault was "if anything happens to you I won't forgive myself" It's one of those thing people tend to say rhetorically but the memory is permanently burned into my brain. Everyone I have talked to (counselors, family, friends, and even my wife) tell me I can't blame myself. I have learned to deal with it but I don't think I can ever completely forgive myself. 

I don't mean to bring up something that I asked people not to discuss but I thought your question deserved a real answer.


----------



## bfree

Cody1980 said:


> Some detail about her family life and issue with my family.
> 
> Her father was verbally, physically, and sexually abusive to her and her brother. She has not seen or spoken to him in 8 year. Her mother is a big burden and more of a daughter to her. They don;t see each other much and they do not get along. She sees her brother the most at about once every other months. She hardly ever sees her sister. Basically she is not close to her family at all while I have always been very close to mine.
> 
> In the beginning she loved my family (even my crazy arsh older sister) and considered them her own. Now she considers most them them controlling and disrespectful.
> 
> My crazy sister emailed me and my family saying that she though my wife was cheating on me, that she had lied about being sexually assaulted, and basically saying she is bad for me. The email eventually made it back to my wife and she responded in kind calling my sister out on all her bs to my entire family. I have mentioned before that I think my sister is a horrible person. Basically my wife called her out on it. My sister then turned most of my family against my wife saying "either her or me". She was pregnant with her first child at the time and my family obviously choose her.
> 
> This was her deciding factor on not going on the family vacation. Up until this point she was very excited about going. She had planned most of it (the beach house, activities, flights, etc.).


So you're sister believed your wife was cheating on you. Its been my experience that women tend to have better instincts for when other women are cheating than men do. Are you so sure your sister was wrong?


----------



## Faithful Wife

I see, Cody. And thanks for answering. Subject is dropped.


----------



## Cody1980

terrence4159 said:


> in order to SAVE this marriage you have to be willing to LOSE it!!! yeah ultimatums tell her flat out im back in tomorrow or you will have divorce papers when you come back from NO. me personally i know you wont do it i would flat out tell her i dont trust her on this trip alone and i would let her know i would be having a PI following her down there. (ps if my wife said vacation alone without you she wouldnt have a home to come back to, she knows this thing is cody SHE doent want to vacation without me)


People telling me I can't or won't do something is just the kind of thing to light a fire under my ass and get me moving.

I think I may change my tune a bit and not wait till April 4.

Here is what I am thinking....

Just before she leaves for vacation I tell her...

"I do not approve of you going on this trip alone but I am willing to put my feelings aside one more time for you. While you are away I WILL be moving back home. When you return you can either decide once and for all if you will still be my wife. I can't put my feelings or happiness on hold any longer. If your answer if no I think we should start the divorce process."

What do you think? I know most if not all of you will disagree with me letting her go but I will still have her tailed by a PI. 

Does anyone else have a better idea or can anyone else put it better or more manly?


----------



## Cody1980

bfree said:


> So you're sister believed your wife was cheating on you. Its been my experience that women tend to have better instincts for when other women are cheating than men do. Are you so sure your sister was wrong?


No, not 100%. 

I do know that my sister is a self-centered evil beotch that puts herself before anything and anyone and I haven't trusted her in years.


----------



## tom67

Cody1980 said:


> People telling me I can't or won't do something is just the kind of thing to light a fire under my ass and get me moving.
> 
> I think I may change my tune a bit and not wait till April 4.
> 
> Here is what I am thinking....
> 
> Just before she leaves for vacation I tell her...
> 
> "I do not approve of you going on this trip alone but I am willing to put my feelings aside one more time for you. While you are away I WILL be moving back home. When you return you can either decide once and for all if you will still be my wife. I can't put my feelings or happiness on hold any longer. If your answer if no I think we should start the divorce process."
> 
> What do you think? I know most if not all of you will disagree with me letting her go but I will still have her tailed by a PI.
> 
> Does anyone else have a better idea or can anyone else put it better or more manly?


I think that is the proper attitude to take.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

Cody1980 said:


> No, not 100%.
> 
> I do know that my sister is a self-centered evil beotch that puts herself before anything and anyone and I haven't trusted her in years.


Birds of a feather my friend, birds of a feather.

Or alternatively....it takes one to know one?


----------



## bfree

tom67 said:


> I think that is the proper attitude to take.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually I would tell her that you're moving back in this weekend so you can start reconnecting with her BEFORE her trip. Maybe you can rekindle that bond so well that she actually WANTS you to go with her. Ever think of that my friend?


----------



## TRy

Cody1980 said:


> As for guilt.... one of the last things I said to my wife before she went out the night of her sexual assault was "if anything happens to you I won't forgive myself" It's one of those thing people tend to say rhetorically but the memory is permanently burned into my brain. Everyone I have talked to (counselors, family, friends, and even my wife) tell me I can't blame myself. I have learned to deal with it but I don't think I can ever completely forgive myself.


 I do not get this logic at all because it makes no sense at all. She is an adult and went on her own. She did not have to go, but she went because she wanted to. She did not have to stay after her friends left but she stayed to be with the other man because she wanted to. The fact that the other man treated her like a wh*re had nothing to do with you. 

BTW, how is her being alone in NO any safer than this? It is not. When she comes back from this trip alone having had sex with another man or men "against her will", she will try to make you feel guilty for that too.


----------



## TRy

Cody1980 said:


> I think I may change my tune a bit and not wait till April 4.
> 
> Here is what I am thinking....
> 
> Just before she leaves for vacation I tell her...
> 
> "I do not approve of you going on this trip alone but I am willing to put my feelings aside one more time for you. While you are away I WILL be moving back home. When you return you can either decide once and for all if you will still be my wife. I can't put my feelings or happiness on hold any longer. If your answer if no I think we should start the divorce process."
> 
> What do you think? I know most if not all of you will disagree with me letting her go but I will still have her tailed by a PI.
> 
> Does anyone else have a better idea or can anyone else put it better or more manly?


 You just do not get it do you? The problem with the April 4th date is that it is later and not today. Waiting for the trip is also later and not today. Moving in when she is not there will seem cowardly to her, and she will call you on it and be right.

Your "I do not approve of you going on this trip alone but I am willing to put my feelings aside one more time for you" is just weak. If you want to save your dignity and self respect, do not let her go on this trip without filing for divorce. Stop trying to compromise on being her husband and her being your wife. She is either in or she is out.


----------



## Wiserforit

Cody1980 said:


> Some detail about her family life and issue with my family.
> 
> Her father was verbally, physically, and sexually abusive to her and her brother. She has not seen or spoken to him in 8 year. Her mother is a big burden and more of a daughter to her. They don;t see each other much and they do not get along. She sees her brother the most at about once every other months. She hardly ever sees her sister. Basically she is not close to her family at all while I have always been very close to mine.
> 
> In the beginning she loved my family (even my crazy arsh older sister) and considered them her own. Now she considers most them them controlling and disrespectful.
> 
> My crazy sister emailed me and my family saying that she though my wife was cheating on me, that she had lied about being sexually assaulted, and basically saying she is bad for me. The email eventually made it back to my wife and she responded in kind calling my sister out on all her bs to my entire family. I have mentioned before that I think my sister is a horrible person. Basically my wife called her out on it. My sister then turned most of my family against my wife saying "either her or me". She was pregnant with her first child at the time and my family obviously choose her.
> 
> This was her deciding factor on not going on the family vacation. Up until this point she was very excited about going. She had planned most of it (the beach house, activities, flights, etc.).


This story started in the middle, skipped backwards and forwards, with major life-changing events sprinkled here and about, so the one thing I am convinced of is that we don't know all that is important.

At the moment there is a pretty strong contradiction between the first version of the wife not being liked by the family in the beginning vs now hearing the wife loved everyone so much.

The "choose her or me" situation with the sister is still not coherent. Choose for what? Sides on a basketball team? Choose who to believe? The fact it isn't stated clearly tells me something is wrong here. With the stories never being complete and the habit of "shaping" them it leads me to believe the sister has some additional details we do not have. And if the family chose to believe the story as the sister is telling it - I hardly think that is because the sister forced them to. 

The physical and sexual abuse by the father. Sheesh - talk about a game changer. So she likely has significant psychological issues stemming from that. This matters a great deal.

How long you knew each other before getting married is now pertinent too. Married 2.5 years is still almost newlyweds, and we know that she was slimming down and changing behavior before this night out alone that went so haywire.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

Toffer said:


> Read the thread. The wife has already participated in some unsavory behavior


Ok, I've read it. To say that it is bizarre is an understatement. What I've been reading is pretty disgusting but unlike a lot here I'm not down on the wife. I feel for her. So here's my .02:

First of all, you should NEVER have gone away and left your wife on Christmas. You chose your family over her. Your sister disrespected your wife and your going away with your family basically sent the message that they are more important than she is. I don't care that your wife told you to go. You shouldn't have.

You should have stuck with your wife and refused their gift in light of what happened with your sister and purchased TWO plane tickets for you and your wife to go away together. Then you should've spent a nice Christmas holiday with the woman you loved, not a bunch of nasty, backbiting, intrusive, criticizing busybodies who obviously have no respect for you or your wife. 

If you had your priorities in order, all this would've been avoided. If you don't think that your wife resents the fact that you went down to Florida with the very people who dislike and disrespect her then think again. BAD BAD MOVE and it doesn't surprise me that she feels abandoned by you and is trying to regain some sense of self worth by doing all the crazy stuff she's doing, including taking a vacation to New Orleans by herself.

So you brought this on to yourself. 

I'm assuming your wife isn't looking to cheat on you but did a dumba$s thing by staying in a bar by herself at 1:30 am. Why didn't leave when her friends did is beyond me but everyone is stupid at times and that goes for 32 year old women too. We all make mistakes and she paid for hers big time. 

So now she's messed up and looking to prove something to herself and everyone else. She also isn't gettin much in the way of support from you because a few months later you go traipsing off to Florida on Christmas with a bunch of people who don't even LIKE her and now she's not even a priority. 

So then you move out, abandoning her some more. If you say she asked for it you are fooling yourself. She is mentally unbalanced at this point and not acting normally and what she is SAYING and what she WANTS may be two different situations. 

But you moved out and now she's really out there and I'll bet feeling a bit more abandoned and alone..so that brings us to the Cyber Sex incident in a attempt to bolster her self esteem and now she's looking to go off and vacation in New Orleans. 

Personally, I lived in NYC for 4 years and I did fine. I know nothing about New Orleanst post-Katrina I wonder truly how much is there in the way of culture and things to do. This is a city that couldn't even keep the lights on throughout the Super Bowl! Surely there are better places to go for food. Uh..Maybe New York City? How about Boston? There are a lot better cities to go and enjoy.

This is all so screwed up. You fu*cked up royally. I agree that you need to MAN UP big time here. You need to let her know that you are WITH her. You want to let her go to New Orleans? OK. I'm down with that. I also think that hiring a PI isn't a bad idea from the viewpoint that it's a good idea to have someone watching over her and you need to prove to yourself that she's on the straight and narrow. You have nothing to lose but I'd rather see you take the money for a PI and purchase another plane ticket and go with her. 

But if you want to respect her desire to be alone, and as someone who likes to vacation alone myself I can actually relate here, that's fine. But the surrounding circumstances are so screwed up I really don't think your wife is thinking or acting rationally. 

But I do think you need to resolve things ASAP. Moving back in is something that needs to be brought up. It's time to set things straight and stop the game playing now. You need to get involved in this marriage and SHOW YOUR WIFE that you are ON HER SIDE. She needs intensive therapy, support and a HUSBAND. 

And tell your crazy family to lay off your wife and they can shove it. You TELL THEM that you will NOT tolerate ANY criticism of your wife and put HER FIRST and DEFEND her. You really, really dropped the ball on this one.  You need to let her know that when it comes to your family that you are on HER SIDE.

Then move back in there and be her husband and plan a romantic B&B vacation for just the two of you and get to work on your marriage. 

And put all this crap behind you. Or file for divorce if you aren't going to be a real husband.


----------



## FalconKing

Freak On a Leash said:


> Ok, I've read it. To say that it is bizarre is an understatement. What I've been reading is pretty disgusting but unlike a lot here I'm not down on the wife. I feel for her. So here's my .02:
> 
> First of all, you should NEVER have gone away and left your wife on Christmas. You chose your family over her. Your sister disrespected your wife and your going away with your family basically sent the message that they are more important than she is. I don't care that your wife told you to go. You shouldn't have.
> 
> You should have stuck with your wife and refused their gift in light of what happened with your sister and purchased TWO plane tickets for you and your wife to go away together. Then you should've spent a nice Christmas holiday with the woman you loved, not a bunch of nasty, backbiting, intrusive, criticizing busybodies who obviously have no respect for you or your wife.
> 
> If you had your priorities in order, all this would've been avoided. If you don't think that your wife resents the fact that you went down to Florida with the very people who dislike and disrespect her then think again. BAD BAD MOVE and it doesn't surprise me that she feels abandoned by you and is trying to regain some sense of self worth by doing all the crazy stuff she's doing, including taking a vacation to New Orleans by herself.
> 
> So you brought this on to yourself.
> 
> I'm assuming your wife isn't looking to cheat on you but did a dumba$s thing by staying in a bar by herself at 1:30 am. Why didn't leave when her friends did is beyond me but everyone is stupid at times and that goes for 32 year old women too. We all make mistakes and she paid for hers big time.
> 
> So now she's messed up and looking to prove something to herself and everyone else. She also isn't gettin much in the way of support from you because a few months later you go traipsing off to Florida on Christmas with a bunch of people who don't even LIKE her and now she's not even a priority.
> 
> So then you move out, abandoning her some more. If you say she asked for it you are fooling yourself. She is mentally unbalanced at this point and not acting normally and what she is SAYING and what she WANTS may be two different situations.
> 
> But you moved out and now she's really out there and I'll bet feeling a bit more abandoned and alone..so that brings us to the Cyber Sex incident in a attempt to bolster her self esteem and now she's looking to go off and vacation in New Orleans.
> 
> Personally, I lived in NYC for 4 years and I did fine. I know nothing about New Orleanst post-Katrina I wonder truly how much is there in the way of culture and things to do. This is a city that couldn't even keep the lights on throughout the Super Bowl! Surely there are better places to go for food. Uh..Maybe New York City? How about Boston? There are a lot better cities to go and enjoy.
> 
> This is all so screwed up. You fu*cked up royally. I agree that you need to MAN UP big time here. You need to let her know that you are WITH her. You want to let her go to New Orleans? OK. I'm down with that. I also think that hiring a PI isn't a bad idea from the viewpoint that it's a good idea to have someone watching over her and you need to prove to yourself that she's on the straight and narrow. You have nothing to lose but I'd rather see you take the money for a PI and purchase another plane ticket and go with her.
> 
> But if you want to respect her desire to be alone, and as someone who likes to vacation alone myself I can actually relate here, that's fine. But the surrounding circumstances are so screwed up I really don't think your wife is thinking or acting rationally.
> 
> But I do think you need to resolve things ASAP. Moving back in is something that needs to be brought up. It's time to set things straight and stop the game playing now. You need to get involved in this marriage and SHOW YOUR WIFE that you are ON HER SIDE. She needs intensive therapy, support and a HUSBAND.
> 
> And tell your crazy family to lay off your wife and they can shove it. You TELL THEM that you will NOT tolerate ANY criticism of your wife and put HER FIRST and DEFEND her. You really, really dropped the ball on this one.  You need to let her know that when it comes to your family that you are on HER SIDE.
> 
> Then move back in there and be her husband and plan a romantic B&B vacation for just the two of you and get to work on your marriage.
> 
> And put all this crap behind you. Or file for divorce if you aren't going to be a real husband.


I agree with some of the things you said but I don't like the mentality that all of the problems start and end with man. It sounds like you have excused the wife's behavior because she is unstable and it's his fault for taking her words at face value. No every man what's to play the damn game of guess what a woman is feeling. She should just mean what she says and stop testing him. If your theory is correct. 

And case in point. Marriages never really are healthy if spouses have a strong desire for independence. Having your own hobbies is one thing but if you need breaks that include days then that means your marriage is a job. And like a job there are times you aren't completely honest with your coworkers with your effort and won't work so hard if nobody is looking.


----------



## Anon Pink

Freak on a Leash said:


> You should have stuck with your wife and refused their gift in light of what happened with your sister and purchased TWO plane tickets for you and your wife to go away together. Then you should've spent a nice Christmas holiday with the woman you loved, not a bunch of nasty, backbiting, intrusive, criticizing busybodies who obviously have no respect for you or your wife.
> 
> This is all so screwed up. You fu*cked up royally. I agree that you need to MAN UP big time here. You need to let her know that you are WITH her. You want to let her go to New Orleans? OK. I'm down with that. I also think that hiring a PI isn't a bad idea from the viewpoint that it's a good idea to have someone watching over her and you need to prove to yourself that she's on the straight and narrow. You have nothing to lose but I'd rather see you take the money for a PI and purchase another plane ticket and go with her.
> 
> And tell your crazy family to lay off your wife and they can shove it. You TELL THEM that you will NOT tolerate ANY criticism of your wife and put HER FIRST and DEFEND her. You really, really dropped the ball on this one. You need to let her know that when it comes to your family that you are on HER SIDE.


Absolutely spot on brilliant! Bravo!

Cody, this advice is your Man Up with the wisdoms of a woman with out an agenda, with a level head, and no dog in this fight.


----------



## Jonesey

Damn ,just finished reading this.. This is not ending up god


----------



## karole

If mrs Cody doesn't get along with her mother & rarely sees her why did she invite her to go to NO with her?


----------



## FalconKing

karole said:


> If mrs Cody doesn't get along with her mother & rarely sees her why did she invite her to go to NO with her?


Maybe she was reaching out to her or maybe she knew she'd say no and she could go alone. I dunno.


----------



## TRy

Freak On a Leash said:


> First of all, you should NEVER have gone away and left your wife on Christmas. You chose your family over her. Your sister disrespected your wife and your going away with your family basically sent the message that they are more important than she is. I don't care that your wife told you to go. You shouldn't have.


 The wife has no family relations of her own and does not understand him wanting to have a relationship with his family. The wife had a fight with the sister and not the entire family. She should have gone with him on the trip. Also, he should not have to be a mind reader. She told him it was OK to go and he did.



Freak On a Leash said:


> BAD BAD MOVE and it doesn't surprise me that she feels abandoned by you and is trying to regain some sense of self worth by doing all the crazy stuff she's doing, including taking a vacation to New Orleans by herself.
> 
> So you brought this on to yourself.


 Wow, so you think that the wife can cheat on him because he went to visit his family on Christmas? Talk about blame shifting and making excuses for the wife. I find it interesting that the fight was over the sister accusing the wife of cheating on the OP. Although the OP took his wife's side in the dispute by calling his sister crazy, in light of the wife's other actions, I would sure like to know more details about the sisters so called "crazy" accusations of the wife's cheating. The wife's actions are after all completely consistent with the wife being a cheater.


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## Freak On a Leash

FalconKing said:


> I agree with some of the things you said but I don't like the mentality that all of the problems start and end with man. It sounds like you have excused the wife's behavior because she is unstable and it's his fault for taking her words at face value. No every man what's to play the damn game of guess what a woman is feeling. She should just mean what she says and stop testing him. If your theory is correct. .


I have to agree that the very fact that she stayed at a bar after her friends left and was alone is a weird situation. I'm all about being independent and doing stuff on your own but you have to be smart about it. That wasn't smart. So there very well be something fishy going on here. That's something I would be questioning. 

That said, people DO do stupid things and don't always think. And women do get assaulted/raped and are often the ones that get blamed so maybe I'm sensitive to this as well. I've never been assaulted but I've taken chances and done stuff without thinking about the ramifications and if I had been assaulted I wouldn't want it to be made out like I was the one to blame. 

So I'd like to believe that when a women is taken to the hospital and tests show that she's been forcibly penetrated, which is what the OP said was the case, that she shouldn't be told that she had it coming to her. No one deserves that. 

That said, this was a woman who went through something traumatizing and she is obviously going through emotional upheaval. On top of THAT she has her husband's disapproving, critical relatives spreading rumors about her and what does she get in return? A husband who basically abandons her at Christmas to go off and spend the holidays with these very same people! 

Maybe she should've told him to stay home and be with her but she's not exactly in a position of emotional strength and strong self esteem and maybe she did want to be alone to lick her wounds...

...But the POINT IS, her HUSBAND should've taken it upon himself to say "Don't be silly honey, I'm WITH YOU" and STAYED WITH HER, instead of running off to be with his relatives, the very relatives who put down and disrespect the woman he says he loves so much. 

And he wonders why she is having cybersex and is going to New Orleans by herself. Really?  She shouldn't HAVE to say or demand ANYTHING from her husband when she's going through emotional hell. He should be just BE there for her! 

Supporting and being there for someone even if they aren't quite "right" in the head is just a part of being in a marriage as giving them their space is. What happened to "In sickness or in health?" That doesn't apply here as well?


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## Freak On a Leash

TRy said:


> The wife has no family relations of her own and does not understand him wanting to have a relationship with his family. The wife had a fight with the sister and not the entire family. She should have gone with him on the trip. Also, he should not have to be a mind reader. She told him it was OK to go and he did.
> 
> I find it interesting that the fight was over the sister accusing the wife of cheating on the OP. Although the OP took his wife's side in the dispute by calling his sister crazy, in light of the wife's other actions, I would sure like to know more details about the sisters so called "crazy" accusations of the wife's cheating. The wife's actions are after all completely consistent with the wife being a cheater.


There was NO evidence that she cheated with ANYONE at the time of her assault. Until there is evidence of that then it needs to be assumed that she made an unwise decision to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ok, she screwed up, that doesn't mean she deserved to be assaulted and then blamed for it! 

Regardless of what happened, that's something that was between the OP and his wife. The sister was OUT OF LINE making those statements and the OP should've told her to shut up and mind her own business. And there is NO WAY that his wife should have to spend her Christmas holiday with people who spread rumors, disrespect and obviously dislike her. I don't know about you, but I don't waste my time or spend quality time with people who make me miserable. Life is too short for that kind of crap. 

And the husband should've stood up to his family and stood by his wife, especially since she is in a state of emotional upheaval. She is his priority now, not his sister. When you get married the spouse is the priority, not your parents or siblings. How many marriages have broken up because someone can't grow up and realize that?


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## FalconKing

Freak On a Leash said:


> I have to agree that the very fact that she stayed at a bar after her friends left and was alone is a weird situation. I'm all about being independent and doing stuff on your own but you have to be smart about it. That wasn't smart. So there very well be something fishy going on here. That's something I would be questioning.
> 
> That said, people DO do stupid things and don't always think. And women do get assaulted/raped and are often the ones that get blamed so maybe I'm sensitive to this as well. I've never been assaulted but I've taken chances and done stuff without thinking about the ramifications and if I had been assaulted I wouldn't want it to be made out like I was the one to blame.
> 
> So I'd like to believe that when a women is taken to the hospital and tests show that she's been forcibly penetrated, which is what the OP said was the case, that she shouldn't be told that she had it coming to her. No one deserves that.
> 
> That said, this was a woman who went through something traumatizing and she is obviously going through emotional upheaval. On top of THAT she has her husband's disapproving, critical relatives spreading rumors about her and what does she get in return? A husband who basically abandons her at Christmas to go off and spend the holidays with these very same people!
> 
> Maybe she should've told him to stay home and be with her but she's not exactly in a position of emotional strength and strong self esteem and maybe she did want to be alone to lick her wounds...
> 
> ...But the POINT IS, her HUSBAND should've taken it upon himself to say "Don't be silly honey, I'm WITH YOU" and STAYED WITH HER, instead of running off to be with his relatives, the very relatives who put down and disrespect the woman he says he loves so much.
> 
> And he wonders why she is having cybersex and is going to New Orleans by herself. Really?  She shouldn't HAVE to say or demand ANYTHING from her husband when she's going through emotional hell. He should be just BE there for her!
> 
> Supporting and being there for someone even if they aren't quite "right" in the head is just a part of being in a marriage as giving them their space is. What happened to "In sickness or in health?" That doesn't apply here as well?


I see where you are coming from. But I think he mentioned that his family didn't approve of how she treated him. And I am not saying it's ok for a woman to be raped. Please do not assume that's what I meant. Also, he has gotten the feeling she has been trying to distance herself from him. But I can't remember if the OP said this started before or after her traumatic event. Also, I think it's a bit unfair to say he hasn't been supportive of her. Isn't he the one financing her way of life while she goes to school? And how can you on one hand says he is not supportive of her and then on the other hand point out how weak his for agreeing to whatever it is she wants? That's what I meant by my previous post by saying it sounds like all the problems start and end with him. You make her sound like someone who we should have sympathy for. But you make HIM sound so pathetic.... 

Soooo...maybe it's somewhere in the middle?

But I do think she is having some kind of crisis and we have seen this enough to know the outcome of this has little to do with the spouse and is up to the person with the crisis to get there own **** in order. The spouse is usually just another casualty of the chaos. Not to sound so bleak.


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## Freak On a Leash

I got the impression that a lot of this started after her assault. Perhaps we need some clarification on this but it seems that after this happened last September all the bad stuff started. The fight with the sister, the need for space, the irratic behavior, the cybersex, the need for a solo vacation, etc. 

Yes, he's supportive of her financially and is giving her space, etc. But when push came to shove and he had to make the conscious choice to put her above his family he went with his family. The same family that obviously disapproves, disrespects and dislikes the woman he loves. Perhaps he does this a lot? Perhaps he's a "Mamma's Boy" and tends to kowtow to his immediate family and put his wife second? How many marriages has this been an issue and resulted in problems? 

That isn't something that has been defined and is pure speculation on my part, just as all this stuff about her being a cheater from the start is. There's no evidence of either but I think she's made some bad choices and so has he. She shouldn't have stayed at a bar alone at 1:30 am. He should've backed her up with his family and stayed home at Christmas. He shouldn't have been so quick to move out and leave his unstable wife alone, she should've stayed away from having cybersex, etc, etc. 

Now she wants a solo vacation so it's just getting worse as things continue to unravel.


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## Anon Pink

karole said:


> If mrs Cody doesn't get along with her mother & rarely sees her why did she invite her to go to NO with her?


Here's a thought... She invited her mother BECAUSE they rarely see each other and hadn't a history of harmony.

Or

Mrs Cody was trying to lure her mom to N.O. For nefarious intent! Cue spooky music!


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## Wiserforit

karole said:


> If mrs Cody doesn't get along with her mother & rarely sees her why did she invite her to go to NO with her?


That's the advantage of starting stories at the middle instead of the beginning.

Because then you skip over the part about the mother being a big problem for the daughter. Nobody notices the disconnect until later, and by then the mother isn't going anyway because of some other nonsensical story about tax return money being so different from other money. 

We are still missing the foundation of this whole relationship, which I am going to suggest has some red flags in it too, one of which has been related: we have a girl who had sexual, physical, and emotional abuse while young. 

That seems to me a more appropriate starting place than "taking separate vacations". It isn't to cast blame upon her, but to come to an accurate understanding of exactly what we are dealing with here.


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## Freak On a Leash

Wiserforit said:


> We are still missing the foundation of this whole relationship, which I am going to suggest has some red flags in it too, one of which has been related: we have a girl who had sexual, physical, and emotional abuse while young.
> 
> That seems to me a more appropriate starting place than "taking separate vacations". It isn't to cast blame upon her, but to come to an accurate understanding of exactly what we are dealing with here.


:iagree: That is true. It would seem that the wife has been emotionally unstable for awhile and all this is a result of that. It seems the "solo vacation" is but a mere symptom of a disease that is slowly destroying their marriage.


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## totamm

Cody1980 said:


> Here is what I am thinking....
> 
> Just before she leaves for vacation I tell her...
> 
> "I do not approve of you going on this trip alone but I am willing to put my feelings aside one more time for you. While you are away I WILL be moving back home. When you return you can either decide once and for all if you will still be my wife. I can't put my feelings or happiness on hold any longer. If your answer if no I think we should start the divorce process."
> 
> What do you think?


I think you're trying to man-up but failing miserably.

Let's take what started out as a potentially great idea on your part, which then crashed and burned because, let's face it, you're a weak guy, who is very insecure about his marriage and he's letting his wife go away on a trip that he knows is a horrible idea on so many levels only because if he tries to stop her she's afraid she'll divorce him. 

What happens after this trip? What happens when she wants to do something else, or go somewhere without you? How will that be any different than this time? You're suddenly going to stop being afraid she'll divorce you?

You gotta put a stop to this craziness, and right NOW would be a great time.

So back to your idea. 

Tell her you think she's out of her freaking mind to go to such a dangerous place by herself, that you are aware that she's not thinking clearly given her current rattled mental state, but hey, she's a big girl and you've said your piece and you're done with this matter. But regardless of what she does, you've decided you're moving home, this weekend (or whenever you plan to do it). There's no question, there's no discussion, if she doesn't like it than too freaking bad. 

END OF STORY

No more "I think" and "my feelings" and "you can decide" and blah blah blah. 

Step up to the plate. Say less. Do more.

Have her tailed and if she screws up be prepared to follow through with divorce.


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## karole

Anon Pink said:


> Here's a thought... She invited her mother BECAUSE they rarely see each other and hadn't a history of harmony.
> 
> Or
> 
> Mrs Cody was trying to lure her mom to N.O. For nefarious intent! Cue spooky music!


It was an honest question. What's with the sarcasm?


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## Entropy3000

When you see your spouse heading for the abyss. When you see that they are not thinking clearly. And they say trust me. You then turn it around. Why does she not trust you? You are her husaband. You are an adult. She has not made good decisions. I refuse to call them mistakes. She needs to trust you.

You are not holding up your end of the deal .... again.

You are a severe conflict avoider. The marriage needed you to be strong and you have missed every opportunity along the way. If indeed you had a perfect wife who got raped and then went bonkers ... you let her down.

But like others have stated you have left out much of the story and then trickle truthed.

But from just what you have released I still see nothing positive from your wife. Please what have I missed except her pushing you away? 

I do think she has mental issues. But you are unable to help. Unwiling to help really.

And of course you are going to fund this lifestyle. Sigh. This is enabling.


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## totamm

Cody1980 said:


> My crazy sister emailed me and my family saying that she though my wife was cheating on me, that she had lied about being sexually assaulted, and basically saying she is bad for me.
> 
> My sister then turned most of my family against my wife saying "either her or me". She was pregnant with her first child at the time and my family obviously choose her.


How did your sister "turn most of your family against your wife?". Are they that easily manipulated? Or is it possible that your sister told them things that made sense? Does your sister often turn family members against one another and is she very skilled at this particular form of manipulation?

What does your sister being pregnant with her first child have to do with any of this? Does pregnancy give someone more credibility when they're leveling accusations at someone?



Cody1980 said:


> I do know that my sister is a self-centered evil beotch that puts herself before anything and anyone and I haven't trusted her in years.


Ok, she's "self centered, evil, and a beotch", but does she typically go around accusing other people of cheating? How many other family members has she accused of cheating besides your wife? Is your wife the only family member your crazy sister doesn't get along with or does she fight with everyone?


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## Jonesey

totamm said:


> *How did your sister "turn most of your family against your wife?". Are they that easily manipulated?*
> 
> Simpel. He never STOOD up fo his wife sadly


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## Entropy3000

So could you clear some things up for us? Anyone please chime in if I have missed some things here.

On that horrible night ... He was supposed to be with her. For some reason did not go. He was drunk somewhere else? If so where and why? Souns like trouble already. Was there a fight or disagreement then?

Who were the friends who left her there alone? What could they tell you about her mood or what her plans where? Did they see some guy that might have been the guy? What did the bartender have to do with this? What did he say about that night. Who could have spiked her drinks. Who bought her drinks? When did she leave? Who did she leave with? When did she leave? Where was she found? I get that she says she remembers nothing. Who found her? Who called the police?

Had she ever been to that bar before? Now she would know this no matter how fuzzy that night was for her? If not why that night? Was this is an odd part of town for her to be in? If she had been there before, was she a regular? Might someone have known her? The OP did say to hi knowledge she had not stayed late by herself at a bar before or since.

How far did the police investigate? Did you speak to anyone at the bar? Did you hire a PI to find out who did this to your wife? If not ... why not? If she turns out to have lost herself completely will you then feel the need to find out who did this to her?

Was her being in a bar at all a rare thing? If not how often did she go? How often did she stay late like this? Trying to get a feeling for the before time. You have said very little about it.

Trying to substantiate that her behavior dramtically changed. Or was she already on this road?

It would help for you to provide some background. The pre September background.


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## TRy

Mental issue or not, that fact is that she has already been caught cheating on her husband. Prior to the September incident, she already showed a poor lack of good judgment by staying at the bar after her friends left to get drunk with strangers. No matter the reason, she does not want her husband to live with her and asked for a separation. And now that she is planning a vacation alone to a known party town, it should be obvious that the odds of her cheating on this trip are high. *What does a cheater say to tell you that they plan on cheating on you? Answer: "trust me".*

We do not have to agree on why she is this way, but I think we can agree on the fact that the husband should not let her go on this trip without him. She is either a mentally unstable cheater, or just another cold and calculating cheater, but no matter why she is going there to cheat. If the OP lets her go and she cheats like we know that she will, then the husband will be asked to forgive her because of her mental issues.

OP be a man and act like a husband. Do not let her go no matter how mad she gets at you. Put your foot down, now or the avoidable consequences are on you.


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## Entropy3000

We know a very little bit about that night and nothing before it is my point. He chose where he wanted to start carefully. Perhaps for brevity. But for sure what happened before matters. 

The fact he says she is only going to N.O. because she is a foodie puts much in question about his analysis. 
So indeed he may provide other innocent behavior to us that we view in a different light. Idunno.

But will he keep this thread alive into April 4th?


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## Anon Pink

karole said:


> It was an honest question. What's with the sarcasm?


My sarcasm was due the the fact that very few posts contain questions that aren't "loaded" with preconceived ideas regarding the answers. My sarcasm is a result of being disgusted by the mentality of people "trying" to help shed light on the issue in Cody's marriage. My sarcasm is because, as innocuous as your question may be, it is yet another attempt to uncover motive, intent or a sign of her essential unworthiness and her basic propensity for falsehoods. my sarcasm was a result of seeing this woman totally vilified on highly circumstantial inferences, very little fact and mountains of biases from most people posting here.

I am sorry if I wrongly lumped you into that dog pack. I truly don't want to start jumping to conclusions about anyone as I'm attempting to prevent people from jumping to conclusions about Mrs. Cody. 

This entire thread disgusts me and I have now lost all respect for most of the people on this thread. I see how their dogma taints their ability to form compassionate thoughts and that is hurtful.


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## Entropy3000

Anon Pink said:


> My sarcasm was due the the fact that very few posts contain questions that aren't "loaded" with preconceived ideas regarding the answers. My sarcasm is a result of being disgusted by the mentality of people "trying" to help shed light on the issue in Cody's marriage. My sarcasm is because, as innocuous as your question may be, it is yet another attempt to uncover motive, intent or a sign of her essential unworthiness and her basic propensity for falsehoods. my sarcasm was a result of seeing this woman totally vilified on highly circumstantial inferences, very little fact and mountains of biases from most people posting here.
> 
> I am sorry if I wrongly lumped you into that dog pack. I truly don't want to start jumping to conclusions about anyone as I'm attempting to prevent people from jumping to conclusions about Mrs. Cody.
> 
> This entire thread disgusts me and I have now lost all respect for most of the people on this thread. I see how their dogma taints their ability to form compassionate thoughts and that is hurtful.


People have a right to ask questions. You assume you understand hidden meaning to what people are asking. That is disengenuous. We are asking questions to understand. Yes this is a tough topic. But we are adults. This stuff does happen. Because it is so tough it is worthy of discussing. Trying to censor people is not the way to go IMO.


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## Anon Pink

I am also disgusted by Cody. 

He is throwing his wife to the dog pack for dismemberment. I can see now why she might not want to be with him. He is weak and not able to defend her. 

What kind of husband, particularly a marriage with rather liberal boundaries, can't stand up for his wife who has been traumatized?

What kind of husband politely asks that people not debate that event, without the slightest hint of ire or other irate emotion regarding how his wife has been characterized? 

What kind of husband leaves his wife to vacation with his family, knowing she is going through such turmoil? What kind of husband "respects" her wishes and goes to his family when he knows a choice has been made and his going reflects his agreement with that choice? 

What kind of husband allows a traumatized wife to make and carry out plans a total fool knows are unwise considering all she's still dealing with?

A man who knows he doesn't deserve his wife but can't find his balls to become a better man.


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## Entropy3000

Anon Pink said:


> I am also disgusted by Cody.
> 
> He is throwing his wife to the dog pack for dismemberment. I can see now why she might not want to be with him. He is weak and not able to defend her.
> 
> She kicked him out of the house. She had a cyber-sex "episode". She is going to N.O. without him. He has gone way out of his way to defend her actions.
> 
> What kind of husband, particularly a marriage with rather liberal boundaries, can't stand up for his wife who has been traumatized?
> 
> Indeed very liberal boundaries.
> 
> What kind of husband politely asks that people not debate that event, without the slightest hint of ire or other irate emotion regarding how his wife has been characterized?
> 
> The event is key to the discussion.
> 
> What kind of husband leaves his wife to vacation with his family, knowing she is going through such turmoil? What kind of husband "respects" her wishes and goes to his family when he knows a choice has been made and his going reflects his agreement with that choice?
> 
> I totally agree. I could not leave my wifes side if this happend to her. Very weak.
> 
> What kind of husband allows a traumatized wife to make and carry out plans a total fool knows are unwise considering all she's still dealing with?
> 
> I totally agree. He needs to intervene with her. This is criminal. He should not have moved out either. She needs him and he is not there.
> 
> A man who knows he doesn't deserve his wife but can't find his balls to become a better man.
> 
> Cannot argue against this.
> 
> This has all been said by many. But she is an adult. He does not own her and so on. We bash a husband for intervening and call him controlling. Well he is the least controlling guy around right now. And making my point that men who will not engage to save their marriage are weak and ambivalent. They do not care enough to overrid their fears or inadequacies.
> 
> How could a man let his wife go to N.O. by herself after being raped? He is afarid of conflict? She might tell him off? Huh?


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## Hortensia

Cody, first I wanted to tell you how sorry I feel for the terrible thing that happened to your wife. In the light of such a traumatic, recent event, I join everybody who urged you not to let her go by herself. I know that she said she is 32 y.o. and you can trust her with smart decisions, but she was still 32 y.o when this happened to her, and I bet if you told her not to stay late drinking, she would have given you the same reply "I'm a big girl.." And look what happened...

If you really can't convince her to accompany her, make sure to hire a P.I. to watch her. And do this for her safety, you can deal later with the cyber-cheating, manning-up, moving back in and whatever other issues upon her return. 

Do not stop MC. It seems that it helps. Your nerves and your patience will be tested for a long time. Overcoming a rape is no piece of cake. But if there is willingness to follow counseling, there is always hope.


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## JCD

Anon Pink said:


> Cody, please ignore everything written here by these angry, suspicious, bitter, spiteful and vengeful men. They haven't got a single clue what they are talking about with regards to the rape. Furthermore, their anger and bitterness about their own situations, as communicated in their hurtful, hateful accusations about your wife will do nothing but poison you as you attempt to cope with the rape.
> 
> I suggest you seek support elsewhere since you are not likely to get real support here.


Please excuse me. I don't believe this is an 'either/or' scenario.

His wife could have been raped. His wife could also been trolling for men. Some men still don't believe no means no. Maybe she couldn't go through with it. Maybe she didn't like him. Maybe she was as pure as the driven snow, just wanted to finish up her last drink and it was purely as he described it.

But we (including you, Anon Pink) don't know! So attacking people for a perfectly valid interpretation of events, however uncomfortable, isn't quite kosher.

**

Your wife lost a lot of weight. Worked HARD to lose a lot of weight...and she wants to go to NO to put it all back on?

You two are living apart. What is so awful about spending a VACATION for the love of god with your husband?


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