# Sexual Late Bloomers. The trials and tribulations of getting into the game in the 4th quarter



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Quite a while back I posted a thread where I was wondering if there was some kind of critical point in a person's (primarily men's) sexual development where if they were unable to develop any kind of positive romantic/sexual connection with a woman, whether that causes any ramifications later his life such as becoming some kind of player or skirt chaser or PUA etc and if some of these people felt the need to "make up for lost time" an exact phrase I have heard some guys say. 

I looked it and that thread got all of one response and is now closed so I couldn't bring it back up for further discussion. 

Recently our own @dadstartingover had a podcast with a woman who calls herself Dr Psych Mom and I have been checking out her website and she has some very interesting articles. I will try to post a link but she had an article about "Late Bloomers" where she talks about the exact thing so I do feel a little vindicated that it is a worthy topic. 

In her article she talks about deeper ramifications to young men being late bloomers and not just about being skirt chasers in later years but actual dysfunctional stuff like sex and porn addiction, ED/PE, dissatisfaction in relationships when they do get a GF/wife in a monogamous relationship with kids and family and responsibility years later due to feeling that they missed out on the fun sex years of teens and college etc. 

Women can also face challenges too but is different than those of the late blooming males. 

One interesting thing she stated was that late blooming males can find themselves intimidated by more experienced women and often assume (wrongly I bet) that the partners she would have had prior would have been better and that he wouldn't measure up. These males, she states, are often drawn towards and tend to marry women without sexual past which she states is often an indicator or lowered sex drive so when these guys do want to have a robust sex life, they are often partnered with less sexual partners. 

Hmmmm, where have we heard THAT discussion before LOL

Anyway, the question I posed in my previous thread that she did not directly address is where there is a critical window for sexual experience and connection and just exactly when does someone become a sexual late bloomer?? She states the average age for loss of virginity is 17 and that approximately 70% are no longer virgins by age 19. But she never said at what point some of these issues of not getting into mating game start to manifest. 

The article raises some interesting topics for discussion and touches on quite a few things that we see going on here on TAM.

I will try to post a link to the article. 









When You Are A "Late Bloomer" Sexually, And How This Especially Impacts Men - Dr. Psych Mom


Many men in my practice are still dealing with the fallout of having been a “late bloomer” sexually. Even if they are in a happy marriage and it’s years or even decades after highschool, there are still lasting ramifications of having thought that you are inadequate, unattractive, or a “loser” ...




www.drpsychmom.com


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Quite a while back I posted a thread where I was wondering if there was some kind of critical point in a person's (primarily men's) sexual development where if they were unable to develop any kind of positive romantic/sexual connection with a woman, whether that causes any ramifications later his life such as becoming some kind of player or skirt chaser or PUA etc and if some of these people felt the need to "make up for lost time" an exact phrase I have heard some guys say.
> 
> I looked it and that thread got all of one response and is now closed so I couldn't bring it back up for further discussion.
> 
> ...


It also goes the other way, where the supposed late bloomers just can't be bothered. They've learned to get along without the possibility of a relationship and have made a disconnect between sex and the relationship.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> It also goes the other way, where the supposed late bloomers just can't be bothered. They've learned to get along without the possibility of a relationship and have made a disconnect between sex and the relationship.


Or are they simply incels or asexuals? 

But more importantly, is there kind of a point of no return? Is there a point where they simply missed the bus and a healthy sexual relationship is no longer in the cards for them?

I know a number of guys from my hometown in midwest farm country that are literally 50 year old virgins. They simply never made the jump from the bleachers to the playing field. One is actually a quite buff and pretty good looking guy who is very financially successful. If he could open his mouth and speak to women, he could have the pick of the litter..... or probably even a whole litter if he so chose. 

I also know a number of women who are educated professionals, maybe not fitness or fashion magazine cover girl material but are perfectly nice looking that have never had a serious LTR, never married, no kids etc. I assume they have had sex at some point, but are otherwise what my grandma would have called old maids. 

And I think we all know a number of guys that never really dated or had any hook ups that latched on to the first chick that gave him the time of day his senior year of college and married her right after graduation and now hasn't even had a handjob in a number of years who's wife is on her 3rd affair and he is a completely lost babe in the woods that doesn't know what to do.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

But this whole thing raises some controversial questions. Is there a point where people "should" be connecting romantically/sexually and is there a point where it is downright problematic for them if they haven't? 

How does this jive with religious and cultural beliefs and practices in regards to sexuality and actual development? 

How does it impact our self esteem and self concept as well as our confidences as men and women?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Or are they simply incels or asexuals?
> 
> But more importantly, is there kind of a point of no return? Is there a point where they simply missed the bus and a healthy sexual relationship is no longer in the cards for them?
> 
> ...


On the point I mentioned, if a man goes too long, there is a whole ton of negativity that builds up behind it and there would come a point where it just would not be worth pursuing. 
I think the perceived benefits gained can dwindle to the point where it comes pretty close to not worth pursuing.
My brother was like the second description. It was a terrible experience for him. 
I think we all know Prince Harry.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I do think a lot of that is true, but certainly there are many exceptions to it.

Whether it's being a late bloomer or just not having much luck because of attractiveness level probably also makes a difference.

My main personal experience with a male like that was a friend in a local band that was sort of like family to me. This was not a super attractive band that always made women swoon because it was a punk band. A couple of guys in the band had been married to their high school sweetheart and still were and then one of the guys married sometime during this period but wasn't already married when I met them. Then there was one it was off and on living with a woman who would say they were married when they weren't and was widely known as a crazy shrew. He was fairly attractive physically but he needed a keeper, and she was it.

And then they replaced a bass player with a new guy who looked completely different from the rest of them. In fact he barely played bass at all and basically learned to play bass to be in the band because he was already friends with them because of just trading music and stuff. In fact he was an early computer nerd who worked on prototypes. He never changed the way he dressed and just wasn't particularly attractive.

The other guys in the band got more interest than he did even though they were mostly married.

So he was in a weird situation but he was also going to take advantage of it because he had a Mensa IQ.

He had trouble getting dates. He tried to come on to me after just being friends for a long time and me trusting him as a friend which really pissed me off, but we got through it. He was always orbiting someone he was too afraid to ask out.

So just bad luck with women. But then when he was probably 30, a woman took an interest in him and they started going out and he was very happy about it. But then he started getting cocky. And he attracted a second woman. I had always thought that if he ever got a girlfriend he would just be so happy to have one that he would treat them well and not screw them around and everything. But that's when I learned a life lesson.

This was his first chance to juggle women in his whole life where he had only been a spectator to this activity before, and he did not hesitate to cheat on the first one with the second one. Of course he lost them both. But I mean he was just full of glee that he was able to be a dog like everyone else finally. Sigh.

Some years later he finally did meet someone and stay with her. He was orbiting another woman at a place that had retro dancing and she just demanded to dance with him. He was so OCD (he really was OCD, and a compulsive collector) that she had trouble getting his attention but she was very assertive. And then they were off and running and got married..

So that's why I often scoff when I hear guys referring to themselves as nice guys because they're usually just jealous of the more successful guys and want to be like them if they ever get a chance. 

It's not being nice if you just haven't had the opportunity to be a **** yet.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I do think a lot of that is true, but certainly there are many exceptions to it.
> 
> Whether it's being a late bloomer or just not having much luck because of attractiveness level probably also makes a difference.
> 
> ...


Which also shows you that women use women to pre-screen guys for them. He only became attractive to a second woman once he found a women who found him attractive and took a chance on him.

Not saying there is anything wrong with that, just pointing it out.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> Which also shows you that women use women to pre-screen guys for them. He only became attractive to a second woman once he found a women who found him attractive and took a chance on him.
> 
> Not saying there is anything wrong with that, just pointing it out.


The two women did not know each other. It was just a freak accident that he attracted the second woman but I think it had more to do with his boost in confidence because he was already dating someone else. I mean a confident man is what attracts women, or at least one of the things. But of course it's true what you say to some extent with men and women because You observe how they are when with a person of the opposite sex and how they're treating them and what attention they're getting and whether they're being polite in public and all that. But those two didn't know each other.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

It was upbringing to me. I was a romantic that had the dream of staying chaste and finding a girl the same. I had opportunities but I was playing for keeps. There were several girls willing but I did not want the easy sex toy girl. There are a lot of easy girls that are not willing to refrain and just jump in the sack with several guys. 

Had a GF in HS that said she was chaste, I would have probably married her but she went sideways. Found out later that she had lied about it. 
I was dating another girl that I took to prom, I found out from friend who goes to her school that I do not want to go there. We broke up and she went to party, got drunk and several of the guys on the HS ball team pulled a train on her. Dodged that bullet. 

Figure out quickly that all these girls that keep jumping in bed with these douchebag jerks are not worthy of my time. 

I remained chaste until almost 23. Got pissed at a girl and slept with another that liked me out of spite. Seemed like there were no decent girls that I was interested in. Saw a lot of loose ones that I would not let my dog hump.

Met my wife at 24, married 25 yrs May. Now youngest is 17 and wife and I are concerned with all slutt mentality out there. He said he will not date and will find a GF/Wife after graduation when he goes to Seminary in St. Louis. Find a girl with values that is going the same direction.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Dunno about late bloomers. I was and that led to some adventures that pretty well messed up my mind.

I was virgin until almost 30. I was terribly shy and inhibited, felt women did not want me to approach them and so I didn't. Ever. No flirt no touch.

Then women began hitting on me very aggressively. I just deflected. Just too shy and inept to deal with the attention.

My sister's boyfriend was keyboard in a pretty nice cover band. I worked swing shift and would go to where they were playing, catch the last set and join them for "breakfast" at a local chain restaurant.

A month before my 30 birthday I went to where the band was playing at a hotel near the SF airport. The young lady who was the singer for the band came over to the table where I sat, had a few words and as she got up to go to her room put a key to her room on the table next to me. In my mind I wasn't supposed to be getting this type of attention and I went into shock. No cell phones so I could let her sit in her room waiting or go up and clear things up. Right.

I had agreed to meet my brother and his wife at the SF airport two days after I arrived in SF to take them on a tour of Carmel and Monterey. When I went to the airport there was a woman with them who I did not know. SIL had arranged for rooms in Monterey. It turned out she had booked me and the strange woman to share a single bed room.

I suspect my very controlling SIL wanted to get to me before the singer. My wife says that the SIL would have done me herself if she could get away with it.

I told a co worker about what had happened and he had his girl friend set up a blind hookup between me and one of her co workers.

I'm not sure what this says about late bloomers in general, but for me it was a lot to handle. The average Joe would probably take the alpha male approach that he deserved it for being male, just sat back and enjoyed. I finally got to the point this year where I can relax and feel flattered that in at least two of these situations two or more women were plotting to get me into bed with one of them. I was actually the subject of girl talk.

As a late bloomer I actually really needed a deep, meaningful relationship, not recreational sex. I became acquainted with the woman who is now my wife. I tell her she is the only woman I ever chased. She says it didn't seem like a chase as I seemed to be afraid to touch her. True. Now after a little over a year of living together and marriage of 44 years, I tell her she is my safe harbor from all those nasty women.

I didn't ask her to marry sooner as she is Australian and had lived in Germany and was not sure she would be staying in the US. I gave her a chance to be free if she wanted and then we decided we were going to make it official. Lots of drama.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

this sounds like a bunch of B.S.

if a man or a woman had a very sheltered sexual life, i instead think it is the huge proliferation of kinky PORN that might get them into randy situations late in life.
they see all the different types of sex they could have, and have never tried, and for some it makes them hornier and hornier to try it.

IF they are married, they approach their spouse and say "How about we try THIS!!!!".
and either their spouse goes "YES!!!" and they have fun, or that person is denied and possibly bad stuff then happens.

But it is not that they have had a sheltered sex life when younger, it is more like society TODAY, thru the internet/porn sites/women's magazines/TED talks/toxic friends/hookup sites and apps, keeps pestering them to try all sorts of sex they did not know existed.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

This is wildly supposition in some aspects. Some guys learn early, some guys learn late. How any could not be chasing women in every case us a foreign concept.

Just a different perspective.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So that's why I often scoff when I hear guys referring to themselves as nice guys because they're usually just jealous of the more successful guys and want to be like them if they ever get a chance.
> 
> It's not being nice if you just haven't had the opportunity to be a **** yet.


This kind of brings me back to my original question in a convoluted way - is there an age or a certain window of development where it’s ok for a guy to be jerk and and everyone just chalks it up to boys-will-be-Boys? 

In other words if we expect men to be past being a jerk by a certain age and expect them to be mature and ready to settle down, is there a critical window that they need to be experiencing romantic/sexual connection by to avoid being dysfunctional and immature at age 30???


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> this sounds like a bunch of B.S.
> 
> if a man or a woman had a very sheltered sexual life, i instead think it is the huge proliferation of kinky PORN that might get them into randy situations late in life.
> they see all the different types of sex they could have, and have never tried, and for some it makes them hornier and hornier to try it.
> ...


I’m sure there’s some truth to that, but it becomes a chicken vs egg question. 

Is porn the underlying culprit or were awkward, socially inept, nerdy incels at home in their mom’s basement watching porn because they couldn’t or wouldn’t get a date with a real girl during a critical developmental stage of their life? 

Porn as we know today has only been around the last 30-40 or so years since the advent of home VHS. But late bloomers and incels and dud males and the socially inept have been around since Kane. 

I wholeheartedly agree that porn is a contributing factor. 

But it’s probably only one piece of the puzzle. This stuff predates the porn we know today. 

For some people porn is the disease.

But for many others, it is a symptom.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

There is an alarming number of men who are virgins these days. About 30% of men 30 and under haven't managed to bed a woman.

I think there are some pretty bad effects from this.

I know most of those men are at least somewhat maladjusted and socially inept to not viable at all and possibly dangerous.

I think their best bet would be to find a woman who was confident and had experience. Someone who loves them obviously, but someone who initially would need to lead in the bedroom.

Let's face it, men like this do lack something when it comes to sealing the deal so for them to go for an inexperienced woman it would seem like a recipe for disaster unless the lady was otherwise confident and take charge even though inexperienced.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> There is an alarming number of men who are virgins these days. About 30% of men 30 and under haven't managed to bed a woman.
> 
> I think there are some pretty bad effects from this.
> 
> ...


That line of reasoning can lead down a rabbit hole of no ending.

Look at all the vitriol and horror that gets posted by guys here about the dangers and pitfalls of women that have sexual experience. 

There are red pill pundits at this moment posting YouTube videos and podcasts saying if a woman has had 5 or more sex partners that she is “damaged” and incapable of having a healthy monogamous relationship.

I won’t name names but there is a very vocal frequent poster here that said that any woman that has had a prior relationship that dissolved has been shown to be incapable of maintaining a relationship. 

While I agree with what you are saying, we also need to recognize that one of the things that sexually inexperienced men fear most in this world is a more sexually experienced woman. 

One of the things that Dr Psych Mom pointed out in the article is these late bloomer men tend to gravitate towards less sexual women so even when they do eventually manage to get into a relationship, they are still plagued with sexual frustration and even involuntary celibacy within the relationship/marriage.

We’ve seen that time and time again here where these virgin hunting guys find these 28 year old women that have barely held hands before. 

The guys think they struck a pot of virtuous gold in finding a sexually virtuous woman, only to find out after marriage and couple kids that instead of virtuousness, it’s actually dysfunction, repression and trauma and she hasn’t touched him in the last 2 years. 

And since he married and planted babies in the first woman that gave him the time of day, he is completely unprepared with how to deal with it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> That line of reasoning can lead down a rabbit hole of no ending.
> 
> Look at all the vitriol and horror that gets posted by guys here about the dangers and pitfalls of women that have sexual experience.
> 
> ...


It's also pretty hard to find a woman in her late twenties or early thirties that doesn't have some experience so that's a pretty small pool to be fishing in.

I'm obviously not a promoter of promiscuity but men who have waited that long shouldn't be expecting to find a big selection of women who have been waiting for them to do something.

It also begs the question of what is up with these guys that no woman ever bedded them?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> It also begs the question of what is up with these guys that no woman ever bedded them?


It must be pretty hard to meet women when you stay in your parents basement.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I found an interesting article and study on the topic. The study is a bit old, 2008, but it found that the normative age of "debut" was 17.5. A little lower for men and a little higher for women. "Late" was found to be 22.1, again little earlier for men and a little later for women. Those who lost their virginity "late" more frequently reported sexual problems like trouble reaching orgasm, maintaining an erection, and becoming sexually aroused. So could that be the line you are looking for? 










Long-Term Health Correlates of Timing of Sexual Debut: Results From a National US Study


Objectives. We explored long-term health consequences of age at sexual initiation and of abstinence until marriage to evaluate empirical support for the claim that postponing sexual initiation has beneficial health effects.Methods. We analyzed data from ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov













On 'Late'-In-Life Virginity Loss


Those who don’t have sex during their teen years are in the minority, but the reasons for—and effects of—waiting differ for everyone.




www.theatlantic.com


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> It's also pretty hard to find a woman in her late twenties or early thirties that doesn't have some experience so that's a pretty small pool to be fishing in.
> 
> I'm obviously not a promoter of promiscuity but men who have waited that long shouldn't be expecting to find a big selection of women who have been waiting for them to do something.
> 
> It also begs the question of what is up with these guys that no woman ever bedded them?


A lot of things play into it like religious and cultural programming, moral beliefs, personal values and simply if one has the traits and characteristics that others find attractive and desirable. 

But I have an underlying belief that people have a tendency to naturally do what they want to do. 

If someone has an intact libido and a healthy attitude towards sexuality and are able to interrelate with people on a personal level, they will naturally connect sexually with someone at some point in their teens or early 20s.

And when I say sexually, I am not speaking strictly of PIV. Sexuality encompasses a wide spectrum of experiences. If someone has a personal belief system that doesn’t include PIV, that’s their perogative,,, but are they able to personally connect through other romantic/sexual means?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> It must be pretty hard to meet women when you stay in your parents basement.


True that!😎


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> This kind of brings me back to my original question in a convoluted way - is there an age or a certain window of development where it’s ok for a guy to be jerk and and everyone just chalks it up to boys-will-be-Boys?
> 
> In other words if we expect men to be past being a jerk by a certain age and expect them to be mature and ready to settle down, is there a critical window that they need to be experiencing romantic/sexual connection by to avoid being dysfunctional and immature at age 30???


I would say between the ages of 25 and 30. That's when your brain is finally fully mature. I guess hormones never quite quit fluctuating, but they should have leveled out some by then compared to younger years.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I would say between the ages of 25 and 30. That's when your brain is finally fully mature. I guess hormones never quite quit fluctuating, but they should have leveled out some by then compared to younger years.


You don’t think 25 is old for a first time sexual experience/connection?

I’ve known guys that were completely inexperienced by their mid 20s and had a lot of issues over it. 

One of my best friends was one of those and he still has a lot of struggles.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> You don’t think 25 is old for a first time sexual experience/connection?
> 
> I’ve known guys that were completely inexperienced by their mid 20s and had a lot of issues over it.
> 
> One of my best friends was one of those and he still has a lot of struggles.


It is a little to old. These types of guys will have A LOT of issues later on


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I found an interesting article and study on the topic. The study is a bit old, 2008, but it found that the normative age of "debut" was 17.5. A little lower for men and a little higher for women. "Late" was found to be 22.1, again little earlier for men and a little later for women. Those who lost their virginity "late" more frequently reported sexual problems like trouble reaching orgasm, maintaining an erection, and becoming sexually aroused. So could that be the line you are looking for?



I hate stats. That's how doctors, insurance companies and the CDC screw men.

No sex problems here after starting at almost 30. I have multiple orgasms so sex is pretty free of anxiety--no such thing as PE (just an early one of several), no worry about losing an erection before my partner is satisfied. I still have a Poloroid photo my wife to be took of me walking around her apartment fully aroused after we had made love. Or actually had sex, I guess, as we were being silly that day rather than serious.

That hookup set up by a co worker's girlfriend that I describe above was a "put up or shut up" challenge to me about whether men do have multiple orgasms.

I started late because I'd been too shy to learn how to socialize at that level. Self image was probably a large part of it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Numb26 said:


> It is a little to old. These types of guys will have A LOT of issues later on


Yeah, it’s what makes me think there is some kind of developmental window in a guy’s life and if he doesn’t make that window, he will have increased issues and struggles going forward. 

That doesn’t mean he’s doomed of course. But it does mean that he may need some extra work on himself.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

oldshirt said:


> You don’t think 25 is old for a first time sexual experience/connection?
> 
> I’ve known guys that were completely inexperienced by their mid 20s and had a lot of issues over it.
> 
> One of my best friends was one of those and he still has a lot of struggles.


I'll admit to some struggles. Having only about one year learning to socialize with women and then getting married and not needing to grow socially gave me some grief. I still had the inhibition about touching women.

I just had my first massage yesterday at age 76 and finally permitted a strange woman to run her hands all over my body. This was a result of looking over old baggage with a psychologist while dealing with extreme emotions left over from hormone treatment for prostate cancer. I decided that the inhibitions had made it difficult to deal with life situations and had to go.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Julie's Husband said:


> No sex problems here after starting at almost 30.
> 
> I started late because I'd been to shy to learn how to socialize at that level. Self image was probably a large part of it.


Glad to hear things worked out and all is going well.

As I said above, getting a late start certainly does not need to be a death sentence, but may need to take a little extra work to get one’s self where he wants to be.

How did you overcome your shyness and self image issues so that you could function at that level?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> I hate stats. That's how doctors, insurance companies and the CDC screw men.
> 
> No sex problems here after starting at almost 30. I have multiple orgasms so sex is pretty free of anxiety--no such thing as PE (just an early one of several), no worry about losing an erection before my partner is satisfied. I still have a Poloroid photo my wife to be took of me walking around her apartment fully aroused after we had made love. Or actually had sex, I guess, as we were being silly that day rather than serious.
> 
> ...


Even if the stats say you are more likely to have an issue it doesn't mean you will. Likewise if the stats say you are less likely to have issues doesn't mean you won't. It is just a way to get beyond the bias of anecdotal evidence. 

Also, your comments about starting late because you were shy and socially awkward was one of the points of the article and study. Those that start late often do so because of some personality issue or quirk. Some get over it and some don't. I think @oldshirt is asking, how long do you have to get over those quirks before it is too late and your sex life will always be off in some way?

That article also highlighted a couple where both waited pretty late and so far their sex life as been good. We won't find a line that fits all people.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Those who start sex a full decade or more after the average who do not do so out of a moral choice I would guess are either

1. Not so into sex or
2. Have other social issues that prevent them from getting into a sexual relationship.

I am old and at this point jaded on this topic - I wouldn't touch such a person with a 40 foot pole.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Also, your comments about starting late because you were shy and socially awkward was one of the points of the article and study. Those that start late often do so because of some personality issue or quirk. Some get over it and some don't. I think @oldshirt is asking, how long do you have to get over those quirks before it is too late and your sex life will always be off in some way?


I cannot support my opinion with numbers, but my guess would be "forever", as often as not. Core personality is one of the human traits that is most resistant to change, even when we try.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

it just occured to me....
being a "Sexual Late Bloomer" could be a fabulous thing.
lets say all your life you had boring missionary sex. then all of a sudden you realize there are a thousand new things you want to try, and your libido is swelling up anticipating a bunch of them!

woo hoo....just when you thought you were aging out, you suddenly realize you are a sexual dynamo!

of course, if you are married, you need permission. Hopefully if you are married, BOTH of you will enter this wild era of sexuality at the same time!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So that's why I often scoff when I hear guys referring to themselves as nice guys because they're usually just jealous of the more successful guys and want to be like them if they ever get a chance.


I think you’re right. 

I have never been good friends with women, like where I would go out frequently with them; because if I was doing that I’d say, “So I like you and I want to ask you on an actual date” at which point they’d say no (usually) and that’s it. I wasn’t a “nice guy” though, I made it clear quickly that I didn’t want to be a “friend”.

So I have no women friends except my wife.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think you’re right.
> 
> I have never been good friends with women, like where I would go out frequently with them; because if I was doing that I’d say, “So I like you and I want to ask you on an actual date” at which point they’d say no (usually) and that’s it. I wasn’t a “nice guy” though, I made it clear quickly that I didn’t want to be a “friend”.
> 
> So I have no women friends except my wife.


Same here. No women friends because O don't see the point in "friend zoning" myself.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> Same here. No women friends because O don't see the point in "friend zoning" myself.


Yup. Also what DBTR says about Nice Guys is the same as Glover. They’re not actually nice. They put that label on themselves to feel better about themselves but usually they’re manipulative fake people who are motivated by needs they keep hidden.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yup. Also what DBTR says about Nice Guys is the same as Glover. They’re not actually nice. They put that label on themselves to feel better about themselves but usually they’re manipulative fake people who are motivated by needs they keep hidden.


so guys can not be nice?

well, thats it, i am giving up trying!!!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> You don’t think 25 is old for a first time sexual experience/connection?
> 
> I’ve known guys that were completely inexperienced by their mid 20s and had a lot of issues over it.
> 
> One of my best friends was one of those and he still has a lot of struggles.


I certainly think it can be. Most of my old crowd was sexual by the time they were 12, with some 13-year-old "older woman," you know. But it's all relevant to who they hang with. Mine were fast boys in bands. So hard to compare them with today's isolating gamer types still living at home, many of whom are unsocialized, scared and anxious and reliant on porn. Living the virtual life seems to delay real relationships and real sex. At the older teen, young 20s age, testosterone supposedly peaks in men, so you'd think that alone would drive them out of their rooms, but because of porn being so prevalent, I guess no need.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think you’re right.
> 
> I have never been good friends with women, like where I would go out frequently with them; because if I was doing that I’d say, “So I like you and I want to ask you on an actual date” at which point they’d say no (usually) and that’s it. I wasn’t a “nice guy” though, I made it clear quickly that I didn’t want to be a “friend”.
> 
> So I have no women friends except my wife.


I'm guilty. There were guys I was just friends with. I think it was sometimes a two-way friendship too and not just all of them wanting sex, though I did find out one of them was sexually driven to be "friends," and he was married but he's the one who came running to me once his marriage busted loose. I think it's hard for most women to go from a friendship with a male where they've been talking to them like a friend and gossiping and telling their personal stuff to being their lover. But some think that's the best way. Not me. Once I find out a man is posing as a friend and has now mined me for my personal info, I am never going to trust him again.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> so guys can not be nice?
> 
> well, thats it, i am giving up trying!!!


In general, guys AND girls tend not to be nice. Good deeds are rarely selfless


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

oldshirt said:


> How did you overcome your shyness and self image issues so that you could function at that level?


I never did. The women were in control. The multiple orgasms are just natural and automatic; I have no control over that. 

I was so in shock with the first one that I was totally passive. Probably the worst partner she'd ever had. I just didn't know what to do or say so didn't. She just mounted me, I climaxed immediately. I don't lose my erection after orgasm so she made some comment about how I must have read a lot of books and used me to pleasure herself.

The idea that people would not understand how I would be in shock and what I really felt turned into psychological baggage.

When my SIL put me in bed with her friend without warning and without my consent I slept between the covers the first night. I absolutely could not believe a woman would actually have sex with a total stranger. The next day she complained to my SIL so I spent a couple of months making up for it.

The next one was the multiple orgasm challenge. I didn't have any interest in having sex with her, but I was on a crusade against the taboos on study of male sexuality and wanted to prove my point.

The woman who became my wife and I just spent a lot of time talking. I never touched her before our first time making love. Just too inhibited. We even had an overnight date where I reserved separate rooms. Finally one night she came to my apartment and fell asleep on the floor. I thought maybe she was too tired to drive home safely so I began a long debate with myself whether I should offer to let her stay with me overnight.

A really weird debate.

I had been keeping our relationship platonic and decided to offer her a situation where she would be making the choice of platonic or intimate. I did not verbalize this, I just made the offer of a night in my apartment. I had slept with one woman without touching her (the first night) and knew I could do it again. On the other hand if she wanted to be intimate that was okay as well.

I still have inhibitions about approaching women so my wife is safe in feeling secure in my being monogamous. The inhibitions are a bit over the top, though, so yesterday I decided to fight the inhibitions by having a Swedish massage by a female practitioner. This is the only time since I first became interested in my wife to be that I've allowed touch by another woman. 46 years.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Numb26 said:


> In general, guys AND girls tend not to be nice. Good deeds are rarely selfless


I certainly don't share that view.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Also, your comments about starting late because you were shy and socially awkward was one of the points of the article and study. Those that start late often do so because of some personality issue or quirk. Some get over it and some don't. I think @oldshirt is asking, how long do you have to get over those quirks before it is too late and your sex life will always be off in some way?


That really varies. In my case, marriage is a safe haven where I don't need to worry about changing. I would probably have the same old problems if I needed to go there again. 

In dealing with emotional issues that may have been caused by hormone therapy for cancer or maybe continuing inhibitions keeping me in a box, I've decided to face up to the inhibitions. So maybe I'll finally grow up.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> How does it impact our self esteem and self concept as well as our confidences as men and women?


This is an interesting question.

As usual, I'm reflecting back. I actually thought I was somewhat a 'late bloomer' compared to my peers, yet completely comfortable with that and was exploring sensuality/sexuality in my own way. According to the original post though, I wasn't a late bloomer. Most of my peers were sexually active from about age 15. I don't like boxing people in, however, here goes. I think some were genuinely interested and enjoyed the exploration, a few were in relationships, and some were seeking acceptance through perceptions of what 'should' occur rather than what they really wanted to occur.

Thinking about this thread and back to those times, I remembered a boy in class initiated a 'frigid test' whereby he'd 'test' girls in class to see if they'd let him run his hand up their thigh; if you know what I mean. It seemed that many were willing to pass this 'test' of his. I couldn't stand him. Nothing about him was appealing. Sure enough one day I ended up next to him in class. And he tries the frigid test on me. Get the funk outta here. Afterwards, in my presence, he took great joy in telling a bunch of classmates that I was an uptight frigid beotch. And so, I called him a d-head and told him there was no way in hell I'd let him touch me and to keep away. While waiting for another class that we shared, he came up from behind and started punching the crap out of my upper arm. Really went in for me. I was trying to defend myself, and then a couple of other boys in our class grabbed him off me and a scuffle ensued, with them basically saying WTF? Although my arm was glowing red and hurt like hell, I suppressed that to laugh defiantly and brush it off. Yeah, so that's not really someone I want touching me in any shape or form. One of the boys checked-in with me after class and I did admit it to him that my arm frickn hurt. Maybe someone can find a point to this ramble for it to make sense? All I can think is that I wasn't frigid - I just don't go for assholes.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

heartsbeating said:


> Maybe someone can find a point to this ramble for it to make sense?


I was thinking this lad’s frigid test was odd and then secondly did you go to school with the 45th President? 😂

These days it’d be a TikTok challenge.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

heartsbeating said:


> All I can think is that I wasn't frigid - I just don't go for assholes.


No one's business whether you are open to being sexually abused. Yeah, and he is an asshole.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Deleted.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartsbeating said:


> This is an interesting question.
> 
> As usual, I'm reflecting back. I actually thought I was somewhat a 'late bloomer' compared to my peers, yet completely comfortable with that and was exploring sensuality/sexuality in my own way. According to the original post though, I wasn't a late bloomer. Most of my peers were sexually active from about age 15. I don't like boxing people in, however, here goes. I think some were genuinely interested and enjoyed the exploration, a few were in relationships, and some were seeking acceptance through perceptions of what 'should' occur rather than what they really wanted to occur.
> 
> Thinking about this thread and back to those times, I remembered a boy in class initiated a 'frigid test' whereby he'd 'test' girls in class to see if they'd let him run his hand up their thigh; if you know what I mean. It seemed that many were willing to pass this 'test' of his. I couldn't stand him. Nothing about him was appealing. Sure enough one day I ended up next to him in class. And he tries the frigid test on me. Get the funk outta here. Afterwards, in my presence, he took great joy in telling a bunch of classmates that I was an uptight frigid beotch. And so, I called him a d-head and told him there was no way in hell I'd let him touch me and to keep away. While waiting for another class that we shared, he came up from behind and started punching the crap out of my upper arm. Really went in for me. I was trying to defend myself, and then a couple of other boys in our class grabbed him off me and a scuffle ensued, with them basically saying WTF? Although my arm was glowing red and hurt like hell, I suppressed that to laugh defiantly and brush it off. Yeah, so that's not really someone I want touching me in any shape or form. One of the boys checked-in with me after class and I did admit it to him that my arm frickn hurt. Maybe someone can find a point to this ramble for it to make sense? All I can think is that I wasn't frigid - I just don't go for assholes.


I don’t know if I would call that being a late bloomer but simply standing up for yourself and not taking crap off of an a-hole.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t know if I would call that being a late bloomer but simply standing up for yourself and not taking crap off of an a-hole.


I wasn't a 'late bloomer' by the article's categorization.

However, I think the question about self-esteem and self-concept is interesting in the context of the topic; although could be argued both to and for in terms of 'shoulds' with experiences. I'm likely overthinking this and perhaps unintentionally steering away from the intention. And while not really explaining myself particularly well either. You're welcome 😉


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> On the point I mentioned, if a man goes too long, there is a whole ton of negativity that builds up behind it and there would come a point where it just would not be worth pursuing.
> I think the perceived benefits gained can dwindle to the point where it comes pretty close to not worth pursuing.
> My brother was like the second description. It was a terrible experience for him.
> I think we all know Prince Harry.


The cost is very high for the benefits. Is it worth it for me? I go back and forth with my answer. At my age, I seriously doubt it. 

Hello, my friends. Take care. I'm doing alright.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

heartsbeating said:


> This is an interesting question.
> 
> As usual, I'm reflecting back. I actually thought I was somewhat a 'late bloomer' compared to my peers, yet completely comfortable with that and was exploring sensuality/sexuality in my own way. According to the original post though, I wasn't a late bloomer. Most of my peers were sexually active from about age 15. I don't like boxing people in, however, here goes. I think some were genuinely interested and enjoyed the exploration, a few were in relationships, and some were seeking acceptance through perceptions of what 'should' occur rather than what they really wanted to occur.
> 
> Thinking about this thread and back to those times, I remembered a boy in class initiated a 'frigid test' whereby he'd 'test' girls in class to see if they'd let him run his hand up their thigh; if you know what I mean. It seemed that many were willing to pass this 'test' of his. I couldn't stand him. Nothing about him was appealing. Sure enough one day I ended up next to him in class. And he tries the frigid test on me. Get the funk outta here. Afterwards, in my presence, he took great joy in telling a bunch of classmates that I was an uptight frigid beotch. And so, I called him a d-head and told him there was no way in hell I'd let him touch me and to keep away. While waiting for another class that we shared, he came up from behind and started punching the crap out of my upper arm. Really went in for me. I was trying to defend myself, and then a couple of other boys in our class grabbed him off me and a scuffle ensued, with them basically saying WTF? Although my arm was glowing red and hurt like hell, I suppressed that to laugh defiantly and brush it off. Yeah, so that's not really someone I want touching me in any shape or form. One of the boys checked-in with me after class and I did admit it to him that my arm frickn hurt. Maybe someone can find a point to this ramble for it to make sense? All I can think is that I wasn't frigid - I just don't go for assholes.


You just don't go for sexual predators which is what he was.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> The cost is very high for the benefits. Is it worth it for me? I go back and forth with my answer. At my age, I seriously doubt it.
> 
> Hello, my friends. Take care. I'm doing alright.


Hello friend!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think you’re right.
> 
> I have never been good friends with women, like where I would go out frequently with them; because if I was doing that I’d say, “So I like you and I want to ask you on an actual date” at which point they’d say no (usually) and that’s it. I wasn’t a “nice guy” though, I made it clear quickly that I didn’t want to be a “friend”.
> 
> So I have no women friends except my wife.


This has me curious. I know you and @DownByTheRiver are generally right about "nice" guys.

I wasn't a nice guy but I could have been considered good as far as my honesty and protectiveness towards women.

I had a lot of women friends and still make women friends but they have to be friends to "us" as a couple.

I went out with groups of women to concerts, karaoke nights, parties, hikes, etc.

I wasn't trying to have sex with them though I'm sure I could have with a few.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> This has me curious. I know you and @DownByTheRiver are generally right about "nice" guys.
> 
> I wasn't a nice guy but I could have been considered good as far as my honesty and protectiveness towards women.
> 
> ...


I had lots of male friends and love interests and we all kind of ran in the same crowd, so that creates a slightly different dynamic than I guess some people are used to. It creates some boundaries but it can also be a tangled vine and get incestuous. We all shared a common interest, a strong common interest and not just a casual common interest, in music and that gave us plenty to talk about and be interested in together. 

When I'm talking about "nice guys," I'm referring to the ones who call themselves that and like to think they're superior to the other guys and that women are too dumb to notice it.

The "nice guy", he himself is the only one who thinks he's a nice guy that foolish women are missing out on. Everyone else sees through him. They're characterized by orbiting and are opportunistic feeders, waiting around like a vulture to try to get a woman by , for example, exploiting their friendship after a breakup. And they often trying to make it look like to others that they are the woman's boyfriend when they're not. 

In caveman days, this would have been the weak weasel who waited until the men went hunting and then snuck up on a woman in camp and tried to drag her off.

These guys who call themselves nice guys and resent other guys don't realize that you can be attractive and also be a genuinely nice guy.


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