# How can married couples go so long without sex



## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.

What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?

I understand if you have kids and dont want to break the family apart. But surely your kids will see this disconnect. I would rather them see me happy with someone else. Personally if I go without sex even for a week I start to get bitter. I have to release that sexual tension. Not just by getting myself off, what's the point in giving yourself to one women/man if she turns you down, has no desire and just starfishes. I would be an absolute wreck after a month of no sex with my wife let alone a year.

Is it the fear you can't do better than her/him? Too depantdant on your partner for other things? Interested to hear the mindset and reasons behind it.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...


This is actually how I think


----------



## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

I agree with this whole heartedly. After a few days I would be getting irritated and after a week or two we'd be having a serious discussion.

Without sex, you are not married. You are just friends or roommates.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I think some people stay out of fear that they can't do better, or perhaps that it would be too costly to even try given how devastating divorce can be when finances are marginal. And I think for _some other _people, sex just isn't that important that they'd end an "otherwise good" relationship.

I actually left my ex for lack of sex, but I took too long to do it - kids were involved, and information on divorce was much harder to come by than it is now.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...


For some people the marriage hinges on more than sex. I mean to an extent that sex is not even in the secondary consideration, but tertiary or lower. Which is all well and good if you have a couple who are on the same wavelength with this idea. You can also find those who can handle and engage in open marriages in this category.

For other people, they take their vows so seriously, that they feel they will just have to suffer having made too hasty an decision, and not bothering to have vetted all the possible compatibility points between them.

And of course there are those as you noted that are too dependent on the partner and/or feel they could never do better, that they just give up and suffer.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

thunderchad said:


> I agree with this whole heartedly. After a few days I would be getting irritated and after a week or two we'd be having a serious discussion.
> 
> Without sex, you are not married. You are just friends or roommates.


If having sex doesn't automatically make you (generalized) married, then a lack of it doesn't automatically make you not married. Maybe that is how you personally feel and run your life by, but many others hold other priorities.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

It's really not that simple.....

Some people won't split for the sake of little children...Kids don't care if their parents are getting laid or not, they only care about their own needs..And no....As long as there isn't yelling and screaming, or physical abuse, divorce is almost always worse for kids than staying together, I really don't care what anyone says..

Other people are barely keeping one roof overhead with both working, now they need to create 2? With kids and all that other crap?? Talk about scary!!

Guys are also pretty adept at compartmentalizing....They can live in a house with a woman they don't eff or wont eff them, they get by with Porn sites and kleenex, or maybe they visit the local :"spa" for a hand job, or maybe they get some on the side...They get by....I don't know what most women do, probably the same, maybe to a lesser extent....

I'm not saying anything is right or wrong, but there is usually a story behind everyone that is doing this, and it's most of the time money related...If you don't believe it, ask any one of these people in these situations what they would do if they miraculously hit the lottery....The first thing they would do is pack their bags....probably before even picking up the check...lol..


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

At 59, we both are no more than three days tops. Thankfully both of us are high desire. A couple of my friends at my age are not so frequent. I had to educate one of my best pals how to jazz it up. He purchased a “womanizer”. Uh oh....he really started something. LOL.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> If having sex doesn't automatically make you (generalized) married, then a lack of it doesn't automatically make you not married. Maybe that is how you personally feel and run your life by, but many others hold other priorities.


I have never experienced a sexless marriage but I agree with him. No sex makes your SO just a friend and roommate


----------



## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> Some people won't split for the sake of little children...Kids don't care if their parents are getting laid or not, they only care about their own needs..And no....As long as there isn't yelling and screaming, or physical abuse, divorce is almost always worse for kids than staying together, I really don't care what anyone says..


This jumped out at me. And I agree that statistically, kids raised by non biolical fathers are more prone to abuse. The stats are very clear on that. Also if your a good father to your kids the idea your kids are being raised partly by another male figure is not something that sits well with me. But in marriage you committ to one women only. That's the deal. To withhold desire, affection and sex from someone your bound to, and not being able to seek it elsewhere is incomprehensible. I wouldn't want my kids to see me miserable like this everyday, the cracks in the marriage would be very visible to my kids, they would sense my resentment as I need intimacy to connect. 

I do however put a large emphasis on the sex component in marriage. Being second or third on the list would only be valid if you both have low sex drive and desire. If you both had genuine desire in the beginning, and something changed for one of you, the other partner is stuck in a bad situation. Especially if your like me and many other men who need sex as a means of connecting.

Me personally, I have desired my wife from day 1 and it has not changed in the 10years I've known her. She remains physically attractive, takes care of herself and I'm so grateful for that. I think partners have the responsibility to maintain their health and fitness and not let themselves go. I think there is definitely a correlation between fitness and sexual health. I wonder how many of the deadbedroom scenarios are caused by body issues being overweight and being repulsed by themselves and /or by their partner.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.












I'm assuming lots of chicken choking and lots of rubbing by themselves?


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Kiki123 said:


> This jumped out at me. And I agree that statistically, kids raised by non biolical fathers are more prone to abuse. The stats are very clear on that. Also if your a good father to your kids the idea your kids are being raised partly by another male figure is not something that sits well with me. But in marriage you committ to one women only. That's the deal. To withhold desire, affection and sex from someone your bound to, and not being able to seek it elsewhere is incomprehensible. I wouldn't want my kids to see me miserable like this everyday, t*he cracks in the marriage would be very visible to my kids,* they would sense my resentment as I need intimacy to connect.


Ok....but how bad do you think those "cracks" are going to be when you and your wife are at each others throats during(and after) a divorce? Or maybe when you do divorce, then you can't find a woman willing to have sex with you, or if you do, your kids hate her....Or their mother tells them that you abandoned them and her...for something they have zero understanding of? Or maybe you fall in love with another woman and she drops you on your head and you are in a depression?

I agree with you, that it's incomprehensible....But a lot of things in life are incomprehensible....My upbringing in a broken home was incomprehensible....To be honest, it wasn't a picnic when my parents were together and it was plenty dysfunctional, but I can't imagine that it would have been worse if they just toughed it out....Im not even saying what they did was wrong, but it sucked like hell for us...

Or here is another scenario....Lets say your wife is awesome in all respects, but for whatever reason can't have sex ...this happens,, people get sick, injured, whatever,,...What do you do then?

I'm not advocating anything, just saying (as I said before) that it's not that simple...People that choose to stay and "figure it out" shouldn't necessarily be judged.,...."walk a mile in their shoes" as they say....


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> I have never experienced a sexless marriage but I agree with him. No sex makes your SO just a friend and roommate


Again, that is how it would be for you. But there are plenty of people for whom it is still a marriage. It comes down to the two rules of life:
1) consent is mandatory
2) except for rule 1, there is no one true way.
You way has it such that a sexless partner is no longer a spouse. And that is valid for you and others like you. But you present the situation as if my wives went sexless on me that they are no longer my spouses. But that is not the way it is with us.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I wonder if some couples simply don’t care about sex? Not sure. More often than not though it seems like one or the other spouse stops the intimacy and the marriage becomes strained. I’ve always wondered how those couples stay married despite that perpetual strain?


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> Again, that is how it would be for you. But there are plenty of people for whom it is still a marriage. It comes down to the two rules of life:
> 1) consent is mandatory
> 2) except for rule 1, there is no one true way.
> You way has it such that a sexless partner is no longer a spouse. And that is valid for you and others like you. But you present the situation as if my wives went sexless on me that they are no longer my spouses. But that is not the way it is with us.


I think in general, the comments about it not being a marriage without sex are being based on a marriage that started with a "normal" sex life. Then one of the two spouses decides no more sex and yet the are perfectly capable of having sex. In those cases I do think the relationship has gone from a marriage to a roommate/coparent relationship, at least in the eyes of the person that has been put into the sexless situation.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

thunderchad said:


> I agree with this whole heartedly. After a few days I would be getting irritated and after a week or two we'd be having a serious discussion.
> 
> Without sex, you are not married. You are just friends or roommates.


You are still married whether you have sex every day or once a year.


----------



## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> Ok....but how bad do you think those "cracks" are going to be when you and your wife are at each others throats during(and after) a divorce? Or maybe when you do divorce, then you can't find a woman willing to have sex with you, or if you do, your kids hate her....Or their mother tells them that you abandoned them and her...for something they have zero understanding of? Or maybe you fall in love with another woman and she drops you on your head and you are in a depression?
> 
> I agree with you, that it's incomprehensible....But a lot of things in life are incomprehensible....My upbringing in a broken home was incomprehensible....To be honest, it wasn't a picnic when my parents were together and it was plenty dysfunctional, but I can't imagine that it would have been worse if they just toughed it out....Im not even saying what they did was wrong, but it sucked like hell for us...


I feel for your situation. And I respect your reasons why parents should stay together for the sake of the kids. 

On the flip side, kids that are old enough to understand may accept a separation on the grounds they hate witnessing their parents yelling. Problems in the bedroom will spill over into the household day to day life. My kids HATE to see their parents yelling. And just because parents don't vocalise and/or shout their problems in front of the kids doesn't mean that emotional distance doesn't rub off on them. 

I agree it's a messy thing to rationalise and there is no easy option here.


----------



## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> You are still married whether you have sex every day or once a year.


On paper yes. Unless there's a genuine medical condition, accepting sex once a year, unless both parties are on board, I would see that marriage having an expiry date. All depends on the person being rejected and what he/she is willing to tolerate. Especially if that person is of enough value to easily find enother partner.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Kiki123 said:


> I feel for your situation. And I respect your reasons why parents should stay together for the sake of the kids.
> 
> On the flip side, *kids that are old enough to understand may accept a separation on the grounds they hate witnessing their parents yelling.* Problems in the bedroom will spill over into the household day to day life. My kids HATE to see their parents yelling. And just because parents don't vocalise and/or shout their problems in front of the kids doesn't mean that emotional distance doesn't rub off on them.
> 
> I agree it's a messy thing to rationalise and there is no easy option here.


That's when the parents need to put their own needs aside and put the kids first, and not yell/fight around them. Table their discussions for when the kids aren't around. Kids pick up the tab in divorce and it's not fair. They should just be able to be kids.


----------



## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

I've talked about my situation a couple times in the past on this site and it's past my bedtime already so I'm probably not going to dredge it up or go into a lot of details. I bet if you searched for "boiling frog" in this site you could find the detailed description.

Long story short, the sex was more or less good for the first ~10-12 years and slowly dwindled to "clinically sexless". There was a possibility on Ovulation Day (TM) and no other time. And only if everything had been perfect that day. I stayed because I had overdosed on Hopium thinking that once the next milestone or obstacle was passed things would go back to the way things were. There was no infidelity. There was very little yelling. There wasn't the big smoking gun for a divorce except for the lack of sex and I was in denial.

Coping was roughly daily masturbation. Exercise. Enthusiastic kid activities. Distractions and time passing.

My kids have complained about having to go back and forth and dealing with two households but they've never really said anything about our relationship or divorce either positively or negatively. There was yelling exactly once since the discussion about the ex moving out when she kept asking how I really felt and so I spent several minutes telling her. At full volume. Everything has been civil and cooperative ever since. We get along better in separate households though she's struggling a bit in supporting herself and controlling spending. That's not my problem anymore and she can't get mad at me for when she can't afford something anymore. I can't describe how happy that makes me feel.


----------



## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

In my situation, everything else in our marriage was working fine. We weren't fighting in front of the kids or not speaking, we just weren't as affectionate. I was used to my husband going days, weeks, or occasionally even months between initiating. So when on one occasion it went on even longer than that, I kept thinking, he'll initiate sometime soon. In the mean time he worked and I took care of our kids and time kept passing. After several months I realized he wasn't going to do anything. I was too hurt and prideful to go begging him when it seemed obvious he didn't want anything to do with me. Before a year had passed, I was considering divorce. Something snapped and we finally spoke about our lack of sex for a year. I told him how I felt and he apologized saying he had wanted to initiate, but the longer it went on for, the more scared he was that I would reject him. Since then he vowed to never let us go that long again. I've told him I won't put up with it again. Sex between two healthy married people is necessary for emotional closeness as well as physical release.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Melinda82 said:


> In my situation, everything else in our marriage was working fine. We weren't fighting in front of the kids or not speaking, we just weren't as affectionate. I was used to my husband going days, weeks, or occasionally even months between initiating. So when on one occasion it went on even longer than that, I kept thinking, he'll initiate sometime soon. In the mean time he worked and I took care of our kids and time kept passing. After several months I realized he wasn't going to do anything. I was too hurt and prideful to go begging him when it seemed obvious he didn't want anything to do with me. Before a year had passed, I was considering divorce. Something snapped and we finally spoke about our lack of sex for a year. I told him how I felt and he apologized saying he had wanted to initiate, but the longer it went on for, the more scared he was that I would reject him. Since then he vowed to never let us go that long again. I've told him I won't put up with it again. Sex between two healthy married people is necessary for emotional closeness as well as physical release.


it is odd how those sort of things can happen.

but in hindsight, all you had to do was initiate yourself--even just one time. what held you back? was it a cultural thing? was it the way you were brought up? was it like your husband, and you feared being rejected?


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think in general, the comments about it not being a marriage without sex are being based on a marriage that started with a "normal" sex life. Then one of the two spouses decides no more sex and yet the are perfectly capable of having sex. In those cases I do think the relationship has gone from a marriage to a roommate/coparent relationship, at least in the eyes of the person that has been put into the sexless situation.


I agree that such can be the case for many people. But we all have different values and views and we simply cannot blanket statement something like this. And given the number of sexless marriages and the wide rage of reaction to them from the spouses within, it is obvious that there is no one true view about it.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think in general, the comments about it not being a marriage without sex are being based on a marriage that started with a "normal" sex life. Then one of the two spouses decides no more sex and yet the are perfectly capable of having sex. In those cases I do think the relationship has gone from a marriage to a roommate/coparent relationship, at least in the eyes of the person that has been put into the sexless situation.


Exactly. I am not talking about the inability to have sex due to some external cause. I am talking about a conscious decision not to have sex.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I guess twice a month is technically sexless...I stayed because the sex was good when we had it and I didn't want another man to raise my children. Simple.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Different couples hand things different ways. If my spouse has not fixed anything for dinner, I either fix it myself or go out and grab something. The same response for lack of sex doesn't work out very well.


----------



## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

There seems to be a growing trend of more and more men not wanting to have sex with their women. It used to be men complaining about lack of sex but I think it has shifted to women.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

thunderchad said:


> There seems to be a growing trend of more and more men not wanting to have sex with their women. It used to be men complaining about lack of sex but I think it has shifted to women.


i blame it on the New Math they are teaching in our schools!


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> i blame it on the New Math they are teaching in our schools!


2+2=purple because giraffes don't wear hats


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Talker67 said:


> i blame it on the New Math they are teaching in our schools!


In the UK we tend to blame Brexit and Boris...


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

It’s very common to hear rational such as staying for the kids or “...everything else is good” etc and of course the usual suspects such as fear of not being able to find someone else/being alone and codependency etc.

But when the topic of people that have been living in misery and outright rejection and denial and complete loss of affection for YEARS is something I have called Toxic Commitment in other threads.

This will ruffle some feathers but I think a big contributing factor to people living under misery for years is their own mentality of “... Till death do us part.” 

We see lots of people that come here after years of pain and rejection and even outright abuse and one of the first things they say is, “divorce is not an option.”

I call this Toxic Commitment.

Like the Japanese kamikaze pilots of WWII, they are fully committed to a concept that results in their destruction with no personal benefit to them. You could also call it Marital Martyrdom. Only in this case you don’t get 50 vestal virgins when you die... just a life that sucks. 

Commitment is fine when both parties are committed to the other’s health, happiness and we’ll being. 

But if you’re committed to ‘death do us part” and the other doesn’t give a crap about your wants and needs and well being, you’ve just set yourself up for being used and abused and put away wet. 

So one of the common denominator traits that I have seen in these sexless marriages that last years and years is basically a toxic commitment to their own misery and dysfunction. 

Right now there is an active thread by a guy who’s wife hasn’t touched him at all for 6 years but yet they are still buying houses and properties and putting on additions to the house etc and he simply doesn’t get it that he doesn’t have to live that way.

His wife even told him to take his penis and get sex elsewhere that she doesn’t want it and yet he keeps coming back here every couple years wondering what he can do. 

He is committed to a concept that is causing him harm and despair but he refuses to see beyond the bars of his own jail cell for which he has the key.


----------



## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> it is odd how those sort of things can happen.
> 
> but in hindsight, all you had to do was initiate yourself--even just one time. what held you back? was it a cultural thing? was it the way you were brought up? was it like your husband, and you feared being rejected?


Unlike my husband, who I've never rejected. My husband used to reject my initiations so much that I finally stopped. He likes it when he's in the mood and no other. Plus, like I said, who wants to go begging for sex after 6 months. To me at the time, it was obvious he was no longer interested in me.


----------



## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I guess twice a month is technically sexless...I stayed because the sex was good when we had it and I didn't want another man to raise my children. Simple.


I would take twice a month good sex vs. 5x a week meh sex, but that's just me.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I would take twice a month good sex vs. 5x a week meh sex, but that's just me.


we agree… 🙂


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I would take twice a month good sex vs. 5x a week meh sex, but that's just me.


As someone who enjoys far better than that, I'm not inclined to settle for either of those pathetic options.


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...


Porn and masturbation


----------



## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

We’ve gone as long as a year and a half without sex in our marriage. This was when my wife was pregnant and she had no desire whatsoever for any sexual activity during and the months after.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

GoodDad5 said:


> We’ve gone as long as a year and a half without sex in our marriage. This was when my wife was pregnant and she had no desire whatsoever for any sexual activity during and the months after.


That’s nuts.

I’ve been married twice and with both my ex-wife and wife through all pregnancies and as quickly as possible afterwards we kept sharing lots of sex.

What baffles me is you sucking that up? Since there’s no way I would settle for that nonsense, without dumping who I’m with and getting sex elsewhere.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> As someone who enjoys far better than that, I'm not inclined to settle for either of those pathetic options.


It's great you have such a compatible relationship. I'm jealous. I'm not even having sex now... .


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> It's great you have such a compatible relationship. I'm jealous. I'm not even having sex now... .


I'm not either, since I'm fettling some 1970s plastic and typing this post. 🙂


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> It’s very common to hear rational such as staying for the kids or “...everything else is good” etc and of course the usual suspects such as fear of not being able to find someone else/being alone and codependency etc.
> 
> But when the topic of people that have been living in misery and outright rejection and denial and complete loss of affection for YEARS is something I have called Toxic Commitment in other threads.
> 
> ...


I agree with your take on toxic commitment and the absurdity of divorce not being an option.

Often times it's a control thing. They can't control the state of the marriage by themselves and they can't control their spouse, but they can control the decision to divorce. Sometimes it even becomes a martyr thing where they keep the moral high ground because look at how much poor them put up with. Then they claim victory because they refused to divorce.

There's also an inertia component....it's really hard to blow up your life aa you know it for the unknown and much easier to smoke the hopium pipe (as CL would say). I can appreciate this since I've left 2 marriages, but I'm also not the anxious type and have never been afraid of the unknown.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> View attachment 85357
> 
> 
> I'm assuming lots of chicken choking and lots of rubbing off by themselves?


When truth such as this, slaps you in the face, you either smile or grimace.
Very few dead-pan mugs will be seen.

Sexual desire is generally irrepressible. 

Either you diddle with someone else, diddle yourself, or you refuse to participate and become generally bland and invisible to others.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not even having sex now... .


Just on that, I believe you can if you want to. And that includes with someone who cares for you and wants to share sex with you.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

frusdil said:


> That's when the parents need to put their own needs aside and *put the kids first*, and not yell/fight around them. Table their discussions for when the kids aren't around. Kids pick up the tab in divorce and it's not fair. They should just be able to be kids.


This is the hope.

That said, reality always reigns (acid rains ).

_When emotions are involved, logic, so often dissolves._


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I don't know if it's really anything to do with being hopeful something will change....Most people in sexless marriages are in dead marriages....

Why do they stay?

For one, no one really knows the whole story...People are very discrete about these topics...Heck, I know a guy that has been seeing 2 different high priced escorts for the last 20 years...I didn't know this, until he told me in confidence some years ago.. Morality/ethics aside, its not hard for a guy that has anything going for him, to find women for sex, whether married or not.. whether paying for it or not....

Here is another aspect to consider....I know a lot of divorced middle aged people...Surprisingly a lot of them aren't actively dating and aren't actively looking...I've heard middle aged women say that they don't feel comfortable with their bodies anymore to be intimate and they know guys will want sex...Most are set in their ways and don't want to start new with someone else and all the potential crap there....Who knows, if these people weren't fighting and arguing when married, aren't dating and presumably aren't getting laid, then why even bother divorcing? I also know a lot of married couples that literally do nothing together, barely talk, and basically lead separate lives...It's almost the same as the divorced couples, just a lot more difficult financially for the divorcees...

So I guess is it fair to call these people weak, martyrs or damaged in some way? I dunno...The way it appears to me, is that they are just seeking the path of least resistance, based upon their own circumstances and life desires, which is a common human behavior/coping mechanism...


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Sometimes it even becomes a martyr thing where they keep the moral high ground because look at how much poor them put up with. Then they claim victory because they refused to divorce.


There is truth to some seeking martyrdom. 

There used to be a podcast called “ The Sexless Marriage Struggle”

It was by a guy in his 40s that called himself Chris who’s wife had not touched him in 10 years. In fact they only had sex in the first few years of their marriage until they had 2 kids and then she stopped. 

He would carry on about how miserable he was and how deeply it had effected his self esteem and confidence and enjoyment of life. 

He would frequently read emails from his listeners who would pretty much universally urge him to divorce and move on. 

He would spend the rest of the podcast lecturing on how he had made “vows” and that he was a man of honor and fortitude that’s keeps his promises blah blah blah. 

So in other words he would whine and moan about how miserable he was in a sexless marriage, but then turn right around and brag and boast about how honorable he was and how much strength and integrity he has for tolerating it and living with it like people get some kind medal or plague on the wall for living with deprivation and misery. 

So for some people, it really is a martyr thing. 

You can see some of the same thing here where people will talk about how miserable they are,, but then almost brag about how they are standing by their vows and how much misery and hardship they can take.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I'd still question the whole martyrdom story...It makes no sense(to me) why someone would do this if they had a decent enough way out....I'd love to know the financial situations of these so called martyrs....

Guys tend to have a more pragmatic approach to money....It sounds a whole lot better to make themselves out to be victims, than admit to being too afraid to sell their family home and live in a crappy apartment above the gas station..because their finances are in the toilet..If they aren't dateable at that point anyway, then why bother at all?


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Sometimes it even becomes a martyr thing where they keep the moral high ground because look at how much poor them put up with. Then they claim victory because they refused to divorce.


There are some who choose not to divorce because their belief system (e.g. religion) forbids it. Whether that is a pure and only factor influencing their decision, or tainted by unspoken, perhaps lesser, motivations I do not know, in general or in specific cases. 

Some people are doing the best that they can. I can think of one longtime poster who is in a ****ty situation, is staying, according to him, because of his religious beliefs. In his case, I don’t know what sort of “victory” he could be claiming other than honoring his commitment made to his God. Im not the least bit religious, but I can comprehend that his religious convictions are likely a big influence in his case, and can respect that it is. For his sake, I hope he can find and feel some value out of his choice to stay married.

Though he occasionally vents here, and/or shares the downside of his choice to stay, I don’t fault him for that or look down on him. I’m glad he has somewhere he can get some of his real and valid pain off his chest. Those impatient with that can choose to block him. Or communicate options consistent with his belief system that might help him see a different way forward.

Yes, you said “sometimes”. So, I don’t know how you feel about any particular poster, or what thoughts gave rise to your post.

In my case I’m sure there’s much below the surface that contradicts the reasons apparent I could offer for why I’ve stayed so far. Such contradictions are useful to point out, and important for the one holding them to come to understand, because doing so unlocks more possibility for making healthier choices. But, the fact someone vents about a situation or feels good about some aspects of their choice to stay so far does not make them a martyr or inferior in any way.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> So I guess is it fair to call these people weak, martyrs or damaged in some way? I dunno...The way it appears to me, is that they are just seeking the path of least resistance, based upon their own circumstances and life desires, which is a common human behavior/coping mechanism...


I find the notion of martyrdom here potentially insulting and unhelpful. Certainly distracting, and not the most direct route to connect people with their potential for effecting change.

Someone on TAM accused me once of being a martyr, I found it a bit annoying and that it did not apply to me. I did give it some thought. I concluded his need to judge me so had more to do with him, rather than what little he might possibly know about me. YMMV.

I like to think I’m generally open to criticism. I’d guess I hold many inaccurate beliefs about myself, so who knows, maybe someday someone will convince me I am a martyr.

One thing I’m sure of is I’m the one who has to live with my choices. I’m the one in daily contact with the people and circumstances and things of this world I value. I value some more than others. I have conscious motives and less than conscious motives. Many of these are opposed to each other. Currently, they balance out to the choice to stay another day. The balance changes.

I don’t think the parts of me that are on the losing side of that decision get much joy from their loss. The parts of staying that I perceive beneficial, yes, I’d like to maximize the impact they have on the moments I live in.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

PieceOfSky said:


> I find the notion of martyrdom here potentially insulting and unhelpful. Certainly distracting, and not the most direct route to connect people with their potential for effecting change.
> 
> Someone on TAM accused me once of being a martyr, I found it a bit annoying and that it did not apply to me. I did give it some thought. I concluded his need to judge me so had more to do with him, rather than what little he might possibly know about me. YMMV.
> 
> ...


Fair point....

Just out of curiosity, If you hit the lottery tomorrow, would you still stay??


----------



## Bounceback67 (9 mo ago)

It depends on your age, libidos change as we grow older


----------



## Seems Like Yesterday (9 mo ago)

How is it possible to stay married with a sexless marriage? One could ask how one can stay in a marriage with other aspects of the marriage out of order.

This question is for the case where at one at least has sexual tension. Age and health are killers in themselves, and some do not have great sexual tension in a sexless marriage as touted for the original question. Others whether their sexless marriage is caused by their relationship, health, age, or other have sex drives and libidos that have long since tanked! So, what would be the point of leaving?

I think out of the box constantly. It was asked if there might be fear to leave a marriage and not be able to find anything better. Some do not leave because their mate will not be able to find anything better. Ever think of that?

Hanging the martyr label on those attending to their vows might be a correct determination, at the same time one is throwing out the marriage vows with the bath water. A thrust that the vows are meaningless. One leans to dissolve the marriage since the have and to hold is missing save the better or worse is dismissed as irreverent. Can we have it both ways?

There does seem to be situations where throwing in the towel on marriage is the best for all involved. If one is leaving a marriage and lists a sexless marriage as the reason, they are really leaving because of the cause of the sexless marriage, not lack of sex? Some in this situation are unable to identify the root cause, or both know what it is! This is a mystery beyond comprehension when you think about it?

The causes of a sexless marriage at times is complicated and reasons folks are staying in a marriage that is dysfunctional is very multifaceted in my opinion also. And listing the mindsets for such a drama may not be related to, understood, and or really accepted till one walks in their shoes in my opinion!


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> At 59, we both are no more than three days tops. Thankfully both of us are high desire. A couple of my friends at my age are not so frequent. I had to educate one of my best pals how to jazz it up. He purchased a “womanizer”. Uh oh....he really started something. LOL.


yeah, i'm the idea guy and the toy guy. I've bought some that are met with "um, i don't think so." others that have become very very popular. lol


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Longtime Hubby said:


> yeah, i'm the idea guy and the toy guy. I've bought some that are met with "um, i don't think so." others that have become very very popular. lol


Get a Womanizer and you will be a hero.


----------



## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> I also know a lot of married couples that literally do nothing together, barely talk, and basically lead separate lives...It's almost the same as the divorced couples, just a lot more difficult financially for the divorcees...


Same here - my wife's best friend has been married 30 years and their kids are out of the house. They don't do anything together - she's a teacher and he's in business with his brother but he doesn't work too hard in the business because he's always doing projects around the house. She goes on vacation with her mother every year without him - not sure what he does. Same thing with a buddy of mine - to hear him talk they haven't had sex in years, and they're slightly younger than us (early 50's with one kid still at home). I also don't think my friend is real happy in his marriage, but he has a lot more to lose should they get divorced (he's a business owner and he and his partners also own the building their business is located in), so he's just sticking it out. 

As for us, being mid-50's with two grade school age kids, even though other aspects have improved greatly since the kids were toddlers (they're ten now), our sex life is dead as a doorknob. Been over a year since we last had sex (came close a couple of weeks ago due to her being a bit drunk, but alas nothing happened), and she honestly doesn't have a sex drive. To be fair, we also can't just dump the kids off on grandparents like our next-door neighbors do every weekend (my parents are deceased and hers are in a facility), but I don't think that would matter (back when we'd get a sitter and go out, as soon as we'd get in the car, she'd go on and on about how bad her head hurt and/or how tired she was - I still maintain this was her way to forestall sex).


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sex is only a small part of being married and raising a family for most people. But everyone is different. 

I know a couple who always had hurt feelings and conflict around sex. All he wanted to do was "look" at only certain body parts and not put forth any effort that might have gotten her off. She was higher drive than him and into ordinary sex with touching. 

They survived quite a few years and luckily, both of them lost their interest in trying to have the mutually disagreeable sex about the same time -- and then they stopped fighting nearly as much and were able to relax and enjoy just sitting around together watching a movie or something. It wasn't until AFTER this began happening that I first saw him show her any ordinary everyday affection, such as putting his arm around her. 

There's all kinds with all kinds of problems. Most of the problems were not as noticeable in the beginning when people are concealing their oddities....


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

maquiscat said:


> Again, that is how it would be for you. But there are plenty of people for whom it is still a marriage. It comes down to the two rules of life:
> 1) consent is mandatory
> 2) except for rule 1, there is no one true way.
> You way has it such that a sexless partner is no longer a spouse. And that is valid for you and others like you. But you present the situation as if my wives went sexless on me that they are no longer my spouses. But that is not the way it is with us.


But your's know that you can add another woman if they are no longer available. They have to keep up their game.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Melinda82 said:


> In my situation, everything else in our marriage was working fine. We weren't fighting in front of the kids or not speaking, we just weren't as affectionate. I was used to my husband going days, weeks, or occasionally even months between initiating. So when on one occasion it went on even longer than that, I kept thinking, he'll initiate sometime soon. In the mean time he worked and I took care of our kids and time kept passing. After several months I realized he wasn't going to do anything. I was too hurt and prideful to go begging him when it seemed obvious he didn't want anything to do with me. Before a year had passed, I was considering divorce. Something snapped and we finally spoke about our lack of sex for a year. I told him how I felt and he apologized saying he had wanted to initiate, but the longer it went on for, the more scared he was that I would reject him. Since then he vowed to never let us go that long again. I've told him I won't put up with it again. Sex between two healthy married people is necessary for emotional closeness as well as physical release.


Why didn't YOU initiate? If it is more than a day and I don't, my wife does. That long time period was just as much your doing as it was his. If you don't want to initiate, then make it clear throughout e the day you are ready and willing. 

My wife and I have been married 25 yrs and act like honeymooners, can't keep our hands off each other. That sends me a signal that she is game if I initiate. Come to think of it, she has not turned me down in 8-9 yrs. There are times I will not initiate if she is not feeling well or I know she is really tired.


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Sex is very important to some people & not that important to others. I don't usually resent my husband for the lack of sex but sometimes I do miss it. It's probably been 10 years. He's a good man & it's my choice to stay. Just because somebody else would make a different choice doesn't mean my choice is wrong for me.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> This is the hope.
> 
> That said, reality always reigns (acid rains ).
> 
> _When emotions are involved, logic, so often dissolves._


I used to wish my dad would find someone else that actually loved him and divorce my mom. I lost a lot of respect for how he tolerated mom's crap. Have no respect for mom due to the way she treated dad.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> There is truth to some seeking martyrdom.
> 
> There used to be a podcast called “ The Sexless Marriage Struggle”
> 
> ...


Vows!? How about forsaking all others? Some spouses start forsaking their own spouses too by refusing intimacy. I believe refusing intimacy with a spouse because you just no longer feel like it, is sexually immoral behavior because that spouse is bound to you.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> Vows!? How about forsaking all others? Some spouses start forsaking their own spouses too by refusing intimacy. I believe refusing intimacy with a spouse because you just no longer feel like it, is sexually immoral behavior because that spouse is bound to you.


Too bad the LD spouse usually doesn't see it that way or if they do, they just give out duty sex.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Too bad the LD spouse usually doesn't see it that way or if they do, they just give out duty sex.


yes, but if they have no drive or not attracted anymore, or whatever, then duty sex is what you are going to get. Now, if the "content" of the duty sex is good, then it's a bit more bearable...  if not, it's divorce, but we all know that's not very viable in many situations.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> But your's know that you can add another woman if they are no longer available. They have to keep up their game.


No, that's just it. They could both go sexless and they would still be my wives. A lack of sex is not going to change that. Especially since I can get sex itself outside the marriage. But that is by how _we_ define _our_ marriage. For others, that same situation would mean they are no longer in a marriage, regardless of their legal status. Others define their marriage purely on that legal status. Their marriages are not defined by me or mine. Ours is not defined by them. All anyone can do is state whether a given situation would be a marriage for themselves.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Too bad the LD spouse usually doesn't see it that way or if they do, they just give out duty sex.


If all someone's got going for them with their spouse is duty sex, they'd probably experience more enthusiasm from a sex worker who is getting paid for it.

As for myself if things became so bleak that they devolve to duty sex, I'd stop sharing sex with that person, because uggh.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> Vows!? How about forsaking all others? Some spouses start forsaking their own spouses too by refusing intimacy. I believe refusing intimacy with a spouse because you just no longer feel like it, is sexually immoral behavior because that spouse is bound to you.


That depends. 

Each spouse also has a responsibility to keep themselves desirable and treat each other decently.

If one puts on 100lbs and let’s themself go and has BO and bad breath and rotten teeth, then it’s on them if their partner doesn’t want to touch them.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> As for myself if things became so bleak that they devolve to duty sex, I'd stop sharing sex with that person, because uggh.


But what's duty sex? What if your partner is very much involved and sex is great when it happens? It's still duty sex, I guess, but it's no starfish sex. Or is this responsive desire? But with responsive desire surely the frequency is a lot higher?


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> I used to wish my dad would find someone else that actually loved him and divorce my mom. I lost a lot of respect for how he tolerated mom's crap. Have no respect for mom due to the way she treated dad.


Those who turn their cheek when abused, are said to be observant Christians.
If they do this 'overlooking' for deep spiritual reasons, or even for true intellectual reasons, I accept that. 

Those who turn their cheek because they are 'meek', I do pity.

There are many lambs in our midst. 
That is their makeup.

Others make lamb, their prey.
I pity their suffering.


_SunCMars-_


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> But what's duty sex? What if your partner is very much involved and sex is great when it happens? It's still duty sex, I guess, but it's no starfish sex. Or is this responsive desire? *But with responsive desire surely the frequency is a lot higher*?


You would think so, but maybe not. If your initiation skills are poor overall or not in tune with what gets the RD partner going, the frequency could be quite low. That's where communication is key, but it will only work if all else is pretty good in the marriage and sex is the only "issue".

I also agree with you that duty sex may not be all bad. As you say, just because it is duty sex doesn't mean it is starfish sex. It isn't uncommon to use scheduled sex as a step in resolving this kind of issue. I would call that duty sex, but that doesn't make it bad. It just puts some structure around it. That may sound very clinical and not very spontaneous, but it is a good compromise when you have a partner that does enjoy sex, but doesn't think about it often enough to make it a priority.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You would think so, but maybe not. If your initiation skills are poor overall or not in tune with what gets the RD partner going, the frequency could be quite low. That's where communication is key, but it will only work if all else is pretty good in the marriage and sex is the only "issue".
> 
> I also agree with you that duty sex may not be all bad. As you say, just because it is duty sex doesn't mean it is starfish sex. It isn't uncommon to use scheduled sex as a step in resolving this kind of issue. I would call that duty sex, but that doesn't make it bad. It just puts some structure around it. That may sound very clinical and not very spontaneous, but it is a good compromise when you have a partner that does enjoy sex, but doesn't think about it often enough to make it a priority.


That's what we did. We compromised, after we established the level of responsiveness. The frequency wasn't great for me, but if that meant the sex was good, then so be it... until she decided she was too fat for sex...


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> But what's duty sex? What if your partner is very much involved and sex is great when it happens? It's still duty sex, I guess, but it's no starfish sex. Or is this responsive desire? But with responsive desire surely the frequency is a lot higher?


Duty sex probably looks like the following:

The person is only sharing sex with their spouse, because they feel they have a duty to, as a consequence of believing that they have an obligation to share that sex, all while having no actual desire to share that sex.

Again uggh. The whole idea of participating in duty sex, makes me feel like washing myself in bleach.

The thing is, even though my wife and I share a considerable amount of frequent sex. Neither of us buy into never turning each other down. And both of us turn each other down with reasonabl frequency, because there are occasions when one of us doesn't want to share sex at that moment. All of which contributes to making the frequent sex that we do share, better in the sharing of it since both of us desire sharing it.

It really ought to be perfectly fine to not share sex when one doesn't feel like sharing it, despite being married to someone who wants to share it in that moment.

Now I know there are lots of people who feel that they and their spouses ought to share sex with each other, whenever the other wants it. Yet I can't help but feel that approach is for the most part is counterproductive. Since for the long haul it's probably more likely to make sex feel more like a chore in the duty of sharing it. Versus it being more of a pleasure as a consequence of sharing it when all parties have a desire to do so.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Duty sex probably looks like the following:
> 
> The person is only sharing sex with their spouse, because they feel they have a duty to, as a consequence of believing that they have an obligation to share that sex, all while having no actual desire to share that sex.
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree with this... but I think many wives have sex with their husbands because they want them to be happy and also they have responsive desire. You could call this duty sex too, I guess... because they don't really "feel" or have desire for it in the first place...


----------



## prairieguy1972 (9 mo ago)

I've been in a sexless marriage for over 10 years. No physical intimacy at all beyond hugs, goodnight kisses, and the occasional cuddle. It's a long story, but essentially, there is no 'spark' to rekindle, no romance to be restored. All intimate feelings left the building long ago. We both love each other, but we haven't been 'in love' for almost 20 years. 

Our financial situation doesn't allow either of us to leave. Thankfully, there is still kindness, laughter, and support in the house - and that makes day to day life reasonable. 

Even though they say it takes '2 to Tango', I feel completely responsible, completely inadequate, and completely terrified to start over. I've failed as a husband, but I'm trying to succeed now as a friend. As for urges and needs, I just relieve tension when I get alone time.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

prairieguy1972 said:


> I've been in a sexless marriage for over 10 years. No physical intimacy at all beyond hugs, goodnight kisses, and the occasional cuddle. It's a long story, but essentially, there is no 'spark' to rekindle, no romance to be restored. All intimate feelings left the building long ago. We both love each other, but we haven't been 'in love' for almost 20 years.
> 
> Our financial situation doesn't allow either of us to leave. Thankfully, there is still kindness, laughter, and support in the house - and that makes day to day life reasonable.
> 
> Even though they say it takes '2 to Tango', I feel completely responsible, completely inadequate, and completely terrified to start over. I've failed as a husband, but I'm trying to succeed now as a friend. As for urges and needs, I just relieve tension when I get alone time.


I'm glad that works for you, but unless one of us has a physical issue that prevents physical intimacy I don't think I could live like that. I fell like the resentment would build too much. Even if I couldn't perform anymore I would find a way to still have as much physical intimacy as I could.


----------



## prairieguy1972 (9 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm glad that works for you, but unless one of us has a physical issue that prevents physical intimacy I don't think I could live like that. I fell like the resentment would build too much. Even if I couldn't perform anymore I would find a way to still have as much physical intimacy as I could.


Believe me, my heart is filled with resentment, sorrow, and confusion. I really don't want to be a statistic nor a martyr to a cause, but all I can do now is hope my story gives other people the motivation to address intimacy issues before it's too late.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

prairieguy1972 said:


> Believe me, my heart is filled with resentment, sorrow, and confusion. I really don't want to be a statistic nor a martyr to a cause, but all I can do now is hope my story gives other people the motivation to address intimacy issues before it's too late.


I take it that you tried and failed?


----------



## prairieguy1972 (9 mo ago)

That's the issue. Neither of us tried to fix things when we had the chance. There is nothing left to fix. It's just a marriage of convenience, comfort and safety now. Bringing it up now would only create more anxiety because leaving isn't financially viable.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

prairieguy1972 said:


> That's the issue. Neither of us tried to fix things when we had the chance. There is nothing left to fix. It's just a marriage of convenience, comfort and safety now. Bringing it up now would only create more anxiety because leaving isn't financially viable.


Usually leaving the marriage is brought up in sexless marriage situations. It is the nuclear option. However, you can approach it without holding divorce over anyone's head. If you and your wife get along well otherwise you should be able to talk about anything, including uncomfortable topics. 10 years is one hell of a mountain to climb, but it doesn't mean it is impossible. Even getting to the point where you masturbate together could be a step in getting back to "normal". It seems to me that it would at least be worth discussing, or maybe seek the help of a sex therapist.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Mr B said:


> Porn and masturbation


Which spouse?


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

That is what I am saying. They decide to quit being intimate, you just pick up another girl.


----------



## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> Why didn't YOU initiate? If it is more than a day and I don't, my wife does. That long time period was just as much your doing as it was his. If you don't want to initiate, then make it clear throughout e the day you are ready and willing.
> 
> My wife and I have been married 25 yrs and act like honeymooners, can't keep our hands off each other. That sends me a signal that she is game if I initiate. Come to think of it, she has not turned me down in 8-9 yrs. There are times I will not initiate if she is not feeling well or I know she is really tired.


You obviously haven't read my thread describing my situation in detail. I used to try to initiate--for years. However my husband usually rejected me. He was "too tired," his "stomach hurt," or he was "just not thinking about it." And if he did go along with it, the sex wasn't as good as if he initiated it. So after years of rejection, I quit and left it up to him. Sometimes I would still flirt and let him know I was in the mood. But that was also usually met with absolutely no reciprocation. He only flirts when HE's in the mood for sex. So our pattern changed to: He flirts when he's in the mood. Then I flirt back. Then he initiates and I accept. Any other combination usually results in nothing.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Melinda82 said:


> You obviously haven't read my thread describing my situation in detail. I used to try to initiate--for years. However my husband usually rejected me. He was "too tired," his "stomach hurt," or he was "just not thinking about it." And if he did go along with it, the sex wasn't as good as if he initiated it. So after years of rejection, I quit and left it up to him. Sometimes I would still flirt and let him know I was in the mood. But that was also usually met with absolutely no reciprocation. He only flirts when HE's in the mood for sex. So our pattern changed to: He flirts when he's in the mood. Then I flirt back. Then he initiates and I accept. Any other combination usually results in nothing.


That seems like a common problem mentioned here.... Who initiates and then how its received. If the reception rate is not in the higher percentages, the person almost always feels rejected and after a while stops initiating. 

Hearing 'No' to an initiation of sex too much definitely puts a damper on things. I know not everyone always says 'Yes' but I think that 'Yes' has to outnumber 'No' for success.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Melinda82 said:


> You obviously haven't read my thread describing my situation in detail. I used to try to initiate--for years. However my husband usually rejected me. He was "too tired," his "stomach hurt," or he was "just not thinking about it." And if he did go along with it, the sex wasn't as good as if he initiated it. So after years of rejection, I quit and left it up to him. Sometimes I would still flirt and let him know I was in the mood. But that was also usually met with absolutely no reciprocation. He only flirts when HE's in the mood for sex. So our pattern changed to: He flirts when he's in the mood. Then I flirt back. Then he initiates and I accept. Any other combination usually results in nothing.


You didn't mention there was another thread when you started this one. How old is hubby? If over 35 and he is not initiating and nothing else has changed, neither has become obese, mental, etc. I would always check T levels. 

Tired and not really interested in sex all that much, scream Low T. I started T injections at 37, my prescribing Urologist started at 34-35? So young men can suffer from low testosterone. If T is good, there are other issues to contend with.


----------



## Seems Like Yesterday (9 mo ago)

10 years for some runs head on into use it or lose it at times. At that point a sexless marriage for intercourse at least may be more than a mountain but more of a solid wall for certain age groups! Mind sets in place or not!


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...


Everything is fine outside the bedroom and we even managed to have two kids without intercourse and there is no way either of us would break up our family. Plus the old "pro leave" trope about the kids knowing is B.S. The marriage is great despite the sex and nobody, much less children have any idea what does, or does not happen behind closed doors of the bedroom.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Mr B said:


> Everything is fine outside the bedroom and we even managed to have two kids without intercourse and there is no way either of us would break up our family. Plus the old "pro leave" trope about the kids knowing is B.S. The marriage is great despite the sex and nobody, much less children have any idea what does, or does not happen behind closed doors of the bedroom.


But, and a big but, is that your marriage has always been sexless, has it not?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

maquiscat said:


> If having sex doesn't automatically make you (generalized) married, then a lack of it doesn't automatically make you not married. Maybe that is how you personally feel and run your life by, but many others hold other priorities.


Well ****. That's very well and simply put, and accurate.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mr B said:


> Everything is fine outside the bedroom and we even managed to have two kids without intercourse and there is no way either of us would break up our family. Plus the old "pro leave" trope about the kids knowing is B.S. The marriage is great despite the sex and nobody, much less children have any idea what does, or does not happen behind closed doors of the bedroom.


If you are happy, no problem, then!


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

In Absentia said:


> If you are happy, no problem, then!


Well my HL wife is not happy but she has accepted the situation and wants to remain married.


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Personal said:


> Duty sex probably looks like the following:
> 
> The person is only sharing sex with their spouse, because they feel they have a duty to, as a consequence of believing that they have an obligation to share that sex, all while having no actual desire to share that sex.
> 
> ...


An unaroused male cannot have any kind of sex much less 
"mercy" sex, it is physically impossible.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Mr B said:


> An unaroused male cannot have any kind of sex much less
> "mercy" sex, it is physically impossible.


It is much more common for the woman to be the one providing "duty" sex, so what you bring up isn't typically what is discussed. Also, my bet is if there was a guy giving duty sex I suspect a woman could figure out how to get him from unaroused to aroused. And there's always porn.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Mr B said:


> An unaroused male cannot have any kind of sex much less
> "mercy" sex, it is physically impossible.


Incorrect....maybe....depending on how you are using aroused. Typically when applied to men that means having an erection. IN which case your statement is false. Sex, outside of procreation mechanics, is more than just PIV. Even men with ED can have sex with their SO, even to the point, with some training and practice, having an orgasm, even if it is lacking ejaculation.

Now if you mean sexually stimulated to the point of wanting sex regardless of capability, then maybe, but oral and digital are still options even for mercy sex.


----------



## Edj88 (8 mo ago)

Not sure why people stay, every situation is different as many have stated already. As for me, I’ve been in a miserable marriage for quite a few years but I’m almost ready to hang it up. My reasons for staying have to do with having a disabled adult child and a financially inept wife all while balancing a military career. But I’m near retirement and would like to enjoy life a little before my time is up. I’ve made my position clear on numerous occasions to her to no avail, and am definitely in a roommate situation but worse really because roommates at least share some financial responsibilities. I’m married but don’t have a partner, more like an additional dependent.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Edj88 said:


> Not sure why people stay, every situation is different as many have stated already. As for me, I’ve been in a miserable marriage for quite a few years but I’m almost ready to hang it up. My reasons for staying have to do with having a disabled adult child and a financially inept wife all while balancing a military career. But I’m near retirement and would like to enjoy life a little before my time is up. I’ve made my position clear on numerous occasions to her to no avail, and am definitely in a roommate situation but worse really because roommates at least share some financial responsibilities. I’m married but don’t have a partner, more like an additional dependent.


My marriage feels like that sometimes so you aren't alone.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do and also, thank you for your military service.


----------



## Edj88 (8 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> My marriage feels like that sometimes so you aren't alone.
> 
> Best of luck whatever you decide to do and also, thank you for your military service.


Thank you, I’ll figure it all out eventually


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Hiner112 said:


> We get along better in separate households though she's struggling a bit in supporting herself and controlling spending. That's not my problem anymore and she can't get mad at me for when she can't afford something anymore. I can't describe how happy that makes me feel.


I feel this, especially that last sentence.

It sounds bad, but my ex's struggles lift my spirits. For all the times she said I didn't make that much, didn't do much at hone, and nobody would want me seeing her be that person herself is appropriate, if ironic, justice.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

As noted before, some people experience a decrease in drive and are fine with little sex; some tolerate it because doing so seems preferable to divorce.

Also, some marry people to whom they are not sexually attracted and perhaps don't love in any way. Arranged marriages are still a thing. So too are loneliness; poverty; family, social, religious pressure.


----------



## prairieguy1972 (9 mo ago)

For all the complaining I've done over the years, it's very apparent that I'm the one to blame for the entire mess. And even though a divorce would be the best thing for both of us, I'll never leave because I've completely lost faith in my own sexuality. I have no confidence when it comes to intimacy ...so I'll just continue to try to make the best of everything I have. Kindness, support, and friendship are all that I can offer anyone now.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Kiki123 said:


> On paper yes. Unless there's a genuine medical condition, accepting sex once a year, unless both parties are on board, I would see that marriage having an expiry date. All depends on the person being rejected and what he/she is willing to tolerate. Especially if that person is of enough value to easily find enother partner.


Do the same rules apply if one spouse is constantly neglected emotionally. Sex is an important need, so is emotional support and attention. I think it is hard to have one without the other and another reason for dead bedrooms or lack of spontaneous sex. Men bond emotionally through sex but not all women do. Emotional neglect exacerbates the dead bedroom scenario.


----------



## DerDrkD (8 mo ago)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex.


It seems like this is a path I’m heading down. I think about it but some days mentally and physically I’m just not interested. I might want it once or twice a month. My wife not so much and wants it all the time.


----------



## Seems Like Yesterday (9 mo ago)

2 coments....
1. Of course men do duty sex
2. I say again sexless marriage would be a no brainer to ponder if you were in the sexless parties shoes. If you are not or actually do not wrestle with several of the pleathera of key causes for such a situation, you may remain unable to get your head around the concept.
And not ways one balking but both just not interested in sex period!
And seems sex drive wasted on the young who do not need it and older folks are dealt crumbs.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DerDrkD said:


> It seems like this is a path I’m heading down. I think about it but some days mentally and physically I’m just not interested. I might want it once or twice a month. My wife not so much and wants it all the time.


Don't neglect her sexual needs and desires. Taking care of those needs is the husband's responsibility.


----------



## Kaneda (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I guess twice a month is technically sexless...I stayed because the sex was good when we had it and I didn't want another man to raise my children. Simple.


Yeah, no, not at all! The actual definition of a sexless marriage is 10 times a year or less. Not 24.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kaneda said:


> Yeah, no, not at all! The actual definition of a sexless marriage is 10 times a year or less. Not 24.


It wasn't always twice a month. And even so it didn't change my feelings. It felt pretty sexless!


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

we were down to 26 times a year. now, five years later, on pace for just over 100 times. No idea why, but increased each year since 2017. Not near the 3 or 4 times a week when we were in early years of marriage, but not shabby.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> we were down to 26 times a year. now, five years later, on pace for just over 100 times. No idea why, but increased each year since 2017. Not near the 3 or 4 times a week when we were in early years of marriage, but not shabby.


The more you have it, the more you want it (apparently)...


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> The more you have it, the more you want it (apparently)...


Seems so! Glad frequency improved. Quality better, too.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> The more you have it, the more you want it (apparently)...


Its like candy. The more you get the more you want


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Its like candy. The more you get the more you want


Seems so. trust me, 26 sexual encounters in 12 months was horrible. much better now. Bring on the sweet Candy


----------



## prairieguy1972 (9 mo ago)

You know what sucks the most? When you wake up day, and you realize that all the misery, frustration, loneliness, and sorrow is all self-inflicted.

Every problem you've ever had is completely your own fault, and the reason you feel so alone is because you've pushed away everyone who was important. Day in and day out, you've made a million mistakes attempting to sort yourself out - only to wind up with a bookshelf full of regret.

And yet, through it all, you still crave the connection and attention from another soul. You don't deserve it - but you need it. Desperately.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

prairieguy1972 said:


> You know what sucks the most? When you wake up day, and you realize that all the misery, frustration, loneliness, and sorrow is all self-inflicted.
> 
> Every problem you've ever had is completely your own fault, and the reason you feel so alone is because you've pushed away everyone who was important. Day in and day out, you've made a million mistakes attempting to sort yourself out - only to wind up with a bookshelf full of regret.
> 
> And yet, through it all, you still crave the connection and attention from another soul. You don't deserve it - but you need it. Desperately.


That's is a pretty dark post.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Kiki123 said:


> This jumped out at me. And I agree that statistically, kids raised by non biolical fathers are more prone to abuse. The stats are very clear on that. Also if your a good father to your kids the idea your kids are being raised partly by another male figure is not something that sits well with me. But in marriage you committ to one women only. That's the deal. To withhold desire, affection and sex from someone your bound to, and not being able to seek it elsewhere is incomprehensible. I wouldn't want my kids to see me miserable like this everyday, the cracks in the marriage would be very visible to my kids, they would sense my resentment as I need intimacy to connect.
> 
> I do however put a large emphasis on the sex component in marriage. Being second or third on the list would only be valid if you both have low sex drive and desire. If you both had genuine desire in the beginning, and something changed for one of you, the other partner is stuck in a bad situation. Especially if your like me and many other men who need sex as a means of connecting.
> 
> Me personally, I have desired my wife from day 1 and it has not changed in the 10years I've known her. She remains physically attractive, takes care of herself and I'm so grateful for that. I think partners have the responsibility to maintain their health and fitness and not let themselves go. I think there is definitely a correlation between fitness and sexual health. I wonder how many of the deadbedroom scenarios are caused by body issues being overweight and being repulsed by themselves and /or by their partner.


I think you can have your own thoughts on this, and what would and would not work for you, but to try to make it a general truth that applies to all marriages is incorrect. 

I am not saying I disagree with YOUR thoughts on sex and marriage, but honestly it is case by case. I think likely there are more 'sexless' marriages than there needs to be but not all 'sexless' marriages are invalid. 

Also, just an aside, the longer a couple goes without sex, the less their bodies want/need sex. So, there is really not much difference physically between 2 years and 5 years without sex. I think once you get to a certain point it physically feels the same. Not like the longer you go without sex the more you would want it.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

PieceOfSky said:


> There are some who choose not to divorce because their belief system (e.g. religion) forbids it. Whether that is a pure and only factor influencing their decision, or tainted by unspoken, perhaps lesser, motivations I do not know, in general or in specific cases.
> 
> Some people are doing the best that they can. I can think of one longtime poster who is in a ****ty situation, is staying, according to him, because of his religious beliefs. In his case, I don’t know what sort of “victory” he could be claiming other than honoring his commitment made to his God. Im not the least bit religious, but I can comprehend that his religious convictions are likely a big influence in his case, and can respect that it is. For his sake, I hope he can find and feel some value out of his choice to stay married.
> 
> ...


There are a lot of Christians in the western world and while that typically doesn't prevent them from divorcing anymore, it is a real factor for those believer. I am not sure if I am the poster you are referring to ( I do not think I am) but I feel no victory in my situation even though religion is an obstacle for me.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That's is a pretty dark post.


yep, pretty depressing...


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

uwe.blab said:


> Also, just an aside, the longer a couple goes without sex, the less their bodies want/need sex. So, there is really not much difference physically between 2 years and 5 years without sex.* I think once you get to a certain point it physically feels the same. Not like the longer you go without sex the more you would want it.*


I would tend to agree that the longer you go without sex with "partner A", the less you would want it with "partner A"...

That being said, providing there wasn't some sort of physiological issue or some other unusual hang up, all it would mean, is that you wouldn't want it with partner A, but everyone else would be fair game and in high demand....I can't see how just stopping with one person would kill drive altogether....that makes no sense...to me...


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

uwe.blab said:


> There are a lot of Christians in the western world and while that typically doesn't prevent them from divorcing anymore, it is a real factor for those believer. I am not sure if I am the poster you are referring to ( I do not think I am) but I feel no victory in my situation even though religion is an obstacle for me.


No, I don’t think you are. That poster started his on thread which derailed quickly over religion. I hope his “second” life is better than his first. For me, this is my one and only shot, so I try and make it count.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> I would tend to agree that the longer you go without sex with "partner A", the less you would want it with "partner A"...
> 
> That being said, providing there wasn't some sort of physiological issue or some other unusual hang up, all it would mean, is that you wouldn't want it with partner A, but everyone else would be fair game and in high demand....I can't see how just stopping with one person would kill drive altogether....that makes no sense...to me...


Your body physically requires/desires less sex the longer you go without it. That's a scientific fact and likely part of the reason the really long periods of no sex are sustainable. That said, if a one or both are masturbating, the sex drive would probably be pretty strong.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> Your body physically requires/desires less sex the longer you go without it. That's a scientific fact and likely part of the reason the really long periods of no sex are sustainable. That said, if a one or both are masturbating, the sex drive would probably be pretty strong.


I don't know if a body requires less sex if goes a long time without. Speaking for myself, that's not the case. Everyone is different, however.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I don't know if a body requires less sex if goes a long time without. Speaking for myself, that's not the case. Everyone is different, however.


It's been studied and proven. We are not all different. Good Lord.


----------



## prairieguy1972 (9 mo ago)

I just wish none of it mattered. I wish our bodies and minds didn't need it or think about it.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

uwe.blab said:


> It's been studied and proven. We are not all different. Good Lord.



While I didn't even bother looking and don't care, I would be willing to bet you any amount you want, that they qualify their data with words like "can" not "will"....


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I'm glad I do think about it. Nuff said there.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> It's been studied and proven. We are not all different. Good Lord.


So where can we find these studies? We are different. Not a cookie cutter. Mercy!


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> So where can we find these studies? We are different. Not a cookie cutter. Mercy!


It's not difficult to find. Takes like 5 seconds.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> It's not difficult to find. Takes like 5 seconds.


Was the report written by a woman, perhaps married 5 or more years?


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...


1. Physically healthy people in healthy marriages don’t go that long without sex.
2. With the obvious exception of the elderly, or those who become physically incapable, I think it’s generally fear, weakness, and/or a real or perceived lack of options.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

uwe.blab said:


> It's been studied and proven. We are not all different. Good Lord.


there are some women that can go into a period of sexual dormancy in a LTR or if they have not been with anyone they are attracted to in a long time. 

That period of dormancy can flip on a dime however if they encounter someone else that flips their attraction switches and their libido can come rushing back like a runaway locomotive.

it doesn’t work that way for healthy men however. As long as a man isn’t spanking to porn and draining his own tank all the time, he will just get more and more….. shall we say… motivated.

if a male between the ages of 13 and 80 is perfectly content with a life of celibacy, he either has some kind of metabolic or hormonal disorder going on. Or he is spanking to porn all the time.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> there are some women that can go into a period of sexual dormancy in a LTR or if they have not been with anyone they are attracted to in a long time.
> 
> That period of dormancy can flip on a dime however if they encounter someone else that flips their attraction switches and their libido can come rushing back like a runaway locomotive.
> 
> ...


Dude. Learned it in my 1st semester of college. The human body will significantly decrease the hormones that control libido if no sex (or really orgasms b/c masturbating helps) is happening. That is why people can be married for many years will say they havent had sex in 5 years or whatever. And no a woman did not make it up. 

Can it come back? Yeah, when you start masturbating or having sex. 

Like I said before, this is pretty common knowledge.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

uwe.blab said:


> Dude. Learned it in my 1st semester of college. The human body will significantly decrease the hormones that control libido if no sex (or really orgasms b/c masturbating helps) is happening. That is why people can be married for many years will say they havent had sex in 5 years or whatever. And no a woman did not make it up.
> 
> Can it come back? Yeah, when you start masturbating or having sex.
> 
> Like I said before, this is pretty common knowledge.


But what you are talking about is pretty much a theoretical impossibility...

Images, foods, forms of exercise, even hard work, will raise testosterone and fuel drive..I can get a half a chubby when the nurse does a routine blood pressure check and puts her tits in my face...or when the hot tamale on this news cast is telling me what happened on the highway this morning that caused a delay..

So, even without a sex partner, the fire won't go out....I think for what you are talking about, a guy would have to be locked in a closet for months without any external stimulation.. its just theoretical BS, when we are talking about normal, healthy people...


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

uwe.blab said:


> Dude. Learned it in my 1st semester of college. The human body will significantly decrease the hormones that control libido if no sex (or really orgasms b/c masturbating helps) is happening. That is why people can be married for many years will say they havent had sex in 5 years or whatever. And no a woman did not make it up.
> 
> Can it come back? Yeah, when you start masturbating or having sex.
> 
> Like I said before, this is pretty common knowledge.


Sexless marriage and sexual dormancy are 2 separate things.

I can’t comment on what would happen to man stranded on a deserted island living on coconuts and whatever fish he could catch. Maybe a guy in that situation where he was never around any females for years would lose his libido and sex drive. 



But a normal, healthy, adult male living in the real world is not going to be content and satisfied with prolonged celibacy.

Women will frequently experience a significant decrease in their spontaneous desire after being with one person for many years.

But men?? No.

If a guy is content and happy to be celibate, he either has some kind of metabolic or hormonal issue going on or he is spanking all the time.

either way, that is different that a sexless marriage issue. A sexless marriage is either a relationship issue or a loss of attraction for one’s spouse for whatever reason such as resentment, anger, spouse letting themselves go and getting fat or lazy etc.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Sexless marriage and sexual dormancy are 2 separate things.
> 
> I can’t comment on what would happen to man stranded on a deserted island living on coconuts and whatever fish he could catch. Maybe a guy in that situation where he was never around any females for years would lose his libido and sex drive.
> 
> ...


The question is how does a marriage become sexless for many years. I explained, based on science, how people "survive" that. It isn't based on these made up stories or opinions about what men or women would be ok with in random situations, it is based on what ACTUALLY HAPPENS within the human body. But alas....


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> But what you are talking about is pretty much a theoretical impossibility...
> 
> Images, foods, forms of exercise, even hard work, will raise testosterone and fuel drive..I can get a half a chubby when the nurse does a routine blood pressure check and puts her tits in my face...or when the hot tamale on this news cast is telling me what happened on the highway this morning that caused a delay..
> 
> So, even without a sex partner, the fire won't go out....I think for what you are talking about, a guy would have to be locked in a closet for months without any external stimulation.. its just theoretical BS, when we are talking about normal, healthy people...


Ummmm...wrong on all points -- especially the first one. A 'theoretical impossibility'?


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

uwe.blab said:


> The question is how does a marriage become sexless for many years. I explained, based on science, how people "survive" that. It isn't based on these made up stories or opinions about what men or women would be ok with in random situations, it is based on what ACTUALLY HAPPENS within the human body. But alas....


it doesn’t happen in this human body.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

uwe.blab said:


> Ummmm...wrong on all points -- especially the first one. A 'theoretical impossibility'?



For me, and I would imagine a good deal of the male population, its a_ theoretical impossibility...._

Would......never........happen...............


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> it doesn’t happen in this human body.


yeah, it does. you are not special.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

You may "survive" without sex, but apparently it isn't healthy.









What Happens When You Stop Having Sex


Learn about what can happen to your physical and mental health when you stop having sex.




www.webmd.com


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> For me, and I would imagine a good deal of the male population, its a theoretical impossibility....
> 
> Would......never........happen...............


well, again, you are wrong. that's ok though.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You may "survive" without sex, but apparently it isn't healthy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not saying it is healthy, I am describing how your body "deals" with it, and how marriages can be sexless for many many years and people....live.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

uwe.blab said:


> I am not saying it is healthy, I am describing how your body "deals" with it, and how marriages can be sexless for many many years and people....live.


I think your confusing a number of different topics and concepts.

yes a person will live and breathe and survive prolonged celibacy.

Some people, typically women, can experience their spontaneous desire and libido going dormant for periods of time if no one they are attracted to are flipping their switches or if they are angry or resentful or have lost esteem for their long term partners.

some men will even choose to remain in a sexless marriage and not leave the relationship for a variety of reasons to include finances, children, religious beliefs etc etc

…. BUT THEY ARE NOT OK WITH IT.

they are not perfectly content and satisfied and have no negative feelings towards being celibate.

their spontaneous desire and libido does not go away. They either become bitter and resentful and lose love and esteem for their partner or they spend their days spanking to porn as a maladaptive coping mechanism.

Their body does not shut down sexually and they do not become content to live out the rest of their days abstinent. 

they might make a conscious decision to remain celibate for other reasons. But their body does accept it and **** down their libido.

If a healthy and vigorous man does not have partnered sex and does not spank all the time, he will actually get hornier and more sexually interested and ultimately become more sexually assertive and initiative.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

uwe.blab said:


> I am not saying it is healthy, I am describing how your body "deals" with it, and how marriages can be sexless for many many years and people....live.


I tried finding supporting data for what you are suggesting and I can't. In fact everything I have found suggests the opposite, at least for men. Testosterone levels are higher after a period of celibacy. Since that is the primary driver of libido I don't see how no orgasms leads to less desire. At least on a hormonal level. I can buy that psychologically you may start to learn to live with it.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I tried finding supporting data for what you are suggesting and I can't. In fact everything I have found suggests the opposite, at least for men. Testosterone levels are higher after a period of celibacy. Since that is the primary driver of libido I don't see how no orgasms leads to less desire. At least on a hormonal level. I can buy that psychologically you may start to learn to live with it.


Well, you didn't try very hard. Sounds like you tried to disprove it, and couldn't so then made up some more andectodal stuff. 

And no @oldshirt I am not confused at all. I like how people are pointing this toward women only though. Good stuff.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I think your confusing a number of different topics and concepts.
> 
> yes a person will live and breathe and survive prolonged celibacy.
> 
> ...


Maybe initially, but when we are talking long-term sexless marriage, part of the reason he won't actually 'get hornier' is, well, what I have already described. Do you think all these people going 8, 12, 15 years without sex are acting the way you describe? No. That is why they are able to stay married, because their sex drive is not causing them to go crazy.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

uwe.blab said:


> I am not saying it is healthy, I am describing how your body "deals" with it, and how marriages can be sexless for many many years and people....live.


I cut out Dr. Peppers and all chips for 6 months when losing weight a while back. But any given time I still really wanted one/some.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I cut out Dr. Peppers and all chips for 6 months when losing weight a while back. But any given time I still really wanted one/some.


6 months huh? After 5 years were your hormones still demanding chips and Dr Pepper? 10 years? That's a joke by the way. I do not actually think hormones affect food cravings in any significant way.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

uwe.blab said:


> 6 months huh? After 5 years were your hormones still demanding chips and Dr Pepper? 10 years? That's a joke by the way. I do not actually think hormones affect food cravings in any significant way.


This may be better. I had major back surgery about 15 yrs ago, and it was a full year of pain and physical therapy, etc etc, and when I could rock the casbah again I was way more than ready.

Hell, when I had an appendectomy and still had stitches, let's say after two weeks there was no more waiting, stitches and all. That's all I got.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

uwe.blab said:


> Well, you didn't try very hard. Sounds like you tried to disprove it, and couldn't so then made up some more andectodal stuff.
> 
> And no @oldshirt I am not confused at all. I like how people are pointing this toward women only though. Good stuff.


NO, I was open. I searched for what are the effects of prolonged celibacy.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> NO, I was open. I searched for what are the effects of prolonged celibacy.


Easy. Psycho city.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> NO, I was open. I searched for what are the effects of prolonged celibacy.


Irritability, heightened aggression, heightened tissue use


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Other effects are checking out your neighbors...gawking at the grocery store...and of course watching porn.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Numb26 said:


> Irritability, heightened aggression, heightened tissue use


on a societal scale, any time there is a relatively high number of single males, there is a higher incidence of social problems, ie public drunkenness, drug abuse, crime, violence, prostitution, strip clubs, massage parlors etc etc etc. 

Celibacy does not tame the wild beast or make the beast more docile.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> on a societal scale, any time there is a relatively high number of single males, there is a higher incidence of social problems, ie public drunkenness, drug abuse, crime, violence, prostitution, strip clubs, massage parlors etc etc etc.
> 
> Celibacy does not tame the wild beast or make the beast more docile.


It just makes the beast mad


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> It just makes the beast mad


...and horny!


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

If most people could just go without sex, there wouldn't be as much sexual assault and male bisexuality in prisons. Those guys don't go in being bi but years of no women around takes it toll.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

uwe.blab said:


> Maybe initially, but when we are talking long-term sexless marriage, part of the reason he won't actually 'get hornier' is, well, what I have already described. Do you think all these people going 8, 12, 15 years without sex are acting the way you describe? No. That is why they are able to stay married, because their sex drive is not causing them to go crazy.


I have been sexless for 4 years now. The cravings just go if you are not having it for a long time. It is what it is. Enjoy your fabulous sex mad marriages! 😊


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Other effects are checking out your neighbors...gawking at the grocery store...and of course watching porn.


Last Saturday I shared sex with my wife on two occasions, plus once on Sunday, then again on Monday and Tuesday, then none on Wednesday, followed by once on Thursday and twice on Friday. And once so far today on Saturday as well.

That said I have still checked out some other women, that I have found pleasing to the eye, and I have browsed some erotica and pornography and have also masturbated a few times as well.

So those other effects, certainly don't need a man to not have sex in a while for them to be a thing.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> Irritability, heightened aggression, heightened tissue use


I'm badly affected by HTU right now. So, I understand.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Roommate existence.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Personal said:


> Last Saturday I shared sex with my wife on two occasions, plus once on Sunday, then again on Monday and Tuesday, then none on Wednesday, followed by once on Thursday and twice on Friday. And once so far today on Saturday as well.
> 
> That said I have still checked out some other women, that I have found pleasing to the eye, and I have browsed some erotica and pornography and have also masturbated a few times as well.
> 
> So those other effects, certainly don't need a man to not have sex in a while for them to be a thing.


Well of course but I always make sure I have a reason (excuse) for doing them and not just my wandering eye


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Last Saturday I shared sex with my wife on two occasions, plus once on Sunday, then again on Monday and Tuesday, then none on Wednesday, followed by once on Thursday and twice on Friday. And once so far today on Saturday as well.
> 
> That said I have still checked out some other women, that I have found pleasing to the eye, and I have browsed some erotica and pornography and have also masturbated a few times as well.
> 
> So those other effects, certainly don't need a man to not have sex in a while for them to be a thing.


Nine times in eight days? Are you two
on your honeymoon?


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Nine times in eight days? Are you two
> on your honeymoon?


Its a Southern Hemisphere thing. I think those south of the equator have more sex than us up north?


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

H


FloridaGuy1 said:


> Its a Southern Hemisphere thing. I think those south of the equator have more sex than us up north?


could be!


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Its a Southern Hemisphere thing. I think those south of the equator have more sex than us up north?


Possible


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Nine times in eight days? Are you two
> on your honeymoon?


Nope, just sharing a normal sex life for a couple in their 50s after being together for 26 years. And our honeymoon (23 years ago), was at a frequency of around 2-3x a day.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Nope, just sharing a normal sex life for a couple in their 50s after being together for 26 years. And our honeymoon (23 years ago), was at a frequency of around 2-3x a day.


I don’t know of any couple that age with “a normal sex life” of such frequency.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I don’t know of any couple that age with “a normal sex life” of such frequency.


They’re doing it wrong.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Personal said:


> They’re doing it wrong.


To each their own. Salute your 9 in 8 days pace, a pace reserved usually for newlyweds in their 20s Or 30s Two to three times a week here, we are both in early 60s, and it’s more often than most people we know about.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Nine times in eight days? Are you two
> on your honeymoon?


And it's now at ten times in nine days, which is also most likely to become eleven times in nine days.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Personal said:


> And it's now at ten times in nine days, which is also most likely to become eleven times in nine days.


It’s an organ, not a muscle! Lol


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Depends on whether you count only intercourse as sex. We have not had intercourse for nearly 26 years for physical reasons on her part, but we can still be intimate. Not having intercourse is not wonderful, but I sincerely love my wife and am satisfied with non PIV intimacy. There are some hot moves.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...


Low T?


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Julie's Husband said:


> Depends on whether you count only intercourse as sex. We have not had intercourse for nearly 26 years for physical reasons, but we can still be intimate. Not having intercourse is not wonderful, but I sincerely love my wife and am satisfied with non PIV intimacy. There are some hot moves.


Necessity is the mother of invention. 
glad you found solutions


----------



## St.MichaelisMyAvatar (5 mo ago)

Most of the time it is medical on both sides. Aging husband plumetting testosterone, wife still on birth control though so that ****s things up I'm her head, then the kids the work, and that there's probably a lot of insecurity about aging bodies involved... Wrinkles, untrimmed bushes, smells, not feeling sexy. 
Toys are a good start, so is "why aren't we intimate much anymore?" 

A few couples I know never cheated but hpv appeared after 10 years (this is a family member who would never lie to me) & she is so embarrassed because she didn't cheat and I know 100% he hasn't, so think about that situation 
No one cheated, but after 10 - 15 years in, your immune system can't fight the hpv and you get a wart or two. What spouse that's not extremely smart and knowledgeable about this will believe them. 

The trick is positive pressure if you are horny. You rub backs, touch gently but not outright sexually, and then ask for it. After you have reestablished a once or twice a week deal, it will stick. Keep at it without being a pig. Seduction.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Personal said:


> And it's now at ten times in nine days.


Now eleven times, in nine days.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

St.MichaelisMyAvatar said:


> The trick is positive pressure if you are horny. You rub backs, touch gently but not outright sexually, and then ask for it.


Cool.

Although there are so many other ways which also work.

For example this morning just after we had a shower, my wife and I weren't intending to share a romp at that moment (since we were going to go out). Yet on a whim I decided to put my finger up her and found she was very moist. Then decided to just wipe it off my fingers all over the side of her face. Which to my mild surprise, saw her immediately start kissing me wantonly, quickly followed by her getting on our bed for us to start sharing sex together.

Whereas for our second go today. While my wife was browsing her phone in our living room, I air dropped her a copy of a sexual explicit watercolour with gouache over pencil illustration, of a man and a woman having sex. From the 1915 Souvenir de jeunesse by an anonymous artist, although it may have been rendered by Robert Auer. Which saw a bit of banter between us, about what I was trying to tell her. Then a little while later, she came into my office and announced that she had time to play wherever I liked.

There really are many different ways to initiate sex, successfully.

So I encourage lots of variety in initiation, instead of just following a limited prescriptions.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Some people are very compatible, love each other and have a lot of sex. Not unusual,


----------



## workfromhomedad (5 mo ago)

Been together 9 years. Got 5 kids under 8. Longest(other than just after pregnancy) probably a week.
Normally 3-4 times a week.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> Now eleven times, in nine days.


I love it, lol. 

We shoot for daily, but it doesn't always work out. We were on a roll for a period earlier in the year where I think over the course of 90 days we had sex about 120 times. We had a few long weekends away which greatly contribute to the frequency, including our anniversary weekend where we had sex about 15 times. When we have nothing else specific to do we often end up having sex. Which is why I love the summer. My wife works in a school and I work from home, so anytime is a good time for sex in the summer around here, lol. Over the long haul we average around 4-5 times per week and we've been married 32 years. Other than times with medical issues or traveling for work we never go long periods without sex. More than 4 or 5 days is a loooong stretch with no sex for us. It is hard to imagine sleeping side by side with my wife and not having sex with her on a regular basis.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

15 Times in one weekend? how is that possible?


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> 15 Times in one weekend? how is that possible?


To be honest it did include some pharmaceutical support, lol. That and we had a no clothes rule for the whole weekend. We were in a honeymoon suite with our own pool, hot tub, sauna, heart shaped bed, fireplace, whole 9 yards. If we were in the room we were nude and sex was always on the table.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> To be honest it did include some pharmaceutical support, lol. That and we had a no clothes rule for the whole weekend. We were in a honeymoon suite with our own pool, hot tub, sauna, heart shaped bed, fireplace, whole 9 yards. If we were in the room we were nude and sex was always on the table.


You had to be so sore. I was after my best night/morning ever: 4 times in 9 hours. In my 20s then. Don’t think I could repeat at age 61 needing blue pill


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Some people are very compatible, love each other and have a lot of sex. Not unusual,


I think marital sex is likely a bell curve of statistics like everything else. There are those that have a lot of sex and those that don't have any. Each are on the ends of the curve and are relatively low in commonality. Then there are everyone else who populate the upwards and downwards slope of each side of the curve. 

We just don't always hear from those "in the middle" as its just common, normal amounts of sex...whatever that may be.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think marital sex is likely a bell curve of statistics like everything else. There are those that have a lot of sex and those that don't have any. Each are on the ends of the curve and are relatively low in commonality. Then there are everyone else who populate the upwards and downwards slope of each side of the curve.
> 
> We just don't always hear from those "in the middle" as its just common, normal amounts of sex...whatever that may be.


Totally agree with you.


----------



## Kaneda (5 mo ago)

Alright guys and gals. I'm so thankful to have found this site. I am HD and my wife is LD or, pretty much, No Desire. Once I can get her going she gets into it but, like so many here, men and women alike, I am just kinda way burned out on the negative responses, excuses etc to try much anymore because I have been shot down so many times for so long. I found a toy about a year ago, for me, and it really helps so it's been mentally and emotionally easier for me. From her it's all the familiar excuses / reasons as I see on threads here. She's supposedly still attracted to me, still loves me, etc etc. Like so many here have said, these are just words. I believe her, to a point, but still. 

Anyway, I had started my story with even more detail but deleted it. Maybe another time.
ou
This could help so many! I decided to give it a try. Don't like the idea of being below normal, or average, at anything.

I have absolutely no interest, money or investment in this stuff. While reading in the last few weeks of folks with ED and low T maybe, hopefully, some of you will have good results and things can get more like God intended.

I am not one to comment or leave reviews on line. Below, from Amazon, I believe was my first. This time would therefore be my second.

This is the Review I left:

Okay y'all, I'll be 65 this month. Yeah, getting old...er. My last blood test a few months ago was great, except, my testosterone was barely below the low normal. My Dr said everything was really good and testosterone level was normal with nothing unusual at my age..lol. Well, I've never had problems with my libido, or those functions, but I didn't like those numbers. Normal for my age or not. Looking around on Amazon at supplements I found Tongkat Ali. Read different mfgs reviews and articles online and ordered the Solaray brand. I started with one in the morning and one at night until, on about the 7th day, I read to only take one 400mg/day and to cycle 3 weeks on and one week off. So I now only take one in the morning. That's what I recommend. I noticed I had more energy the first week and during the 2nd week...Dude! Dooode! Dooooode! HaHa! Boiiing, lol. Wow! Like I said, never had problems in this area but I haven't been like THIS in years, no, decades! If it's the placebo effect then my mind is way stronger than I thought possible! LOL! I have another blood test next month and will post the results and further experiences. If you try this stuff, be aware and pay attention to how it affects you, there can be negative side effects. No negative side effects so far with me that I'm aware of. Y'all take care, be safe and God Bless!

That was the Review and it's still all true. Started it early July. Now on my second month.
Please be be aware and watch for the side effects.

Good luck and thank y'all so much for sharing and caring. God Bless!


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Whoa! The quote function messed up there.


----------



## Kaneda (5 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> Whoa! The quote function messed up there.


I thought maybe I did something wrong?? LOL...oops!
Maybe it wasn't me?


Report abuse


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Kaneda said:


> I thought maybe I did something wrong?? LOL...oops!
> Maybe it wasn't me?
> 
> Report abuse
> ...


Sometimes it happens. It's a glitch. LoL!


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...


My wife and I married for 22yrs, together for 28 have sex, once every few months which kills me tbh. Im riddled with resentment towards her and have been for years.

However remove sex, intimacy and romance and what we have is perfect!. :-/


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

sunstoner said:


> My wife and I married for 22yrs, together for 28 have sex, once every few months which kills me tbh. Im riddled with resentment towards her and have been for years.
> 
> However remove sex, intimacy and romance and what we have is perfect!. :-/


Must be extremely difficult to go so long without making love. I don’t think I could exist in such a marriage. How do you?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

sunstoner said:


> My wife and I married for 22yrs, together for 28 have sex, once every few months which kills me tbh. Im riddled with resentment towards her and have been for years.


You know the rest of your statement below is negated by your statement above.



> However remove sex, intimacy and romance and what we have is perfect!. :-/


So I don't believe what you have, is anything close to perfect at all.

Although if it makes you feel better to pretend it's perfect, I hope you keep at it.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> You know the rest of your statement below is negated by your statement above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Come on... he is just saying that, apart from sex, his marriage is perfect. A reasonable statement.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

sunstoner said:


> My wife and I married for 22yrs, together for 28 have sex, once every few months which kills me tbh. Im riddled with resentment towards her and have been for years.
> 
> However remove sex, intimacy and romance and what we have is perfect!. :-/


Sad, everything is good in your relationship expect the part that makes it a marriage. Hopefully you can get some help to correct the problems or give you the courage to get out of the bad situation.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Come on... he is just saying that, apart from sex, his marriage is perfect. A reasonable statement.


Sure, perfectly reasonable. Except for the dead stinking elephant, rotting in his room part of it.



sunstoner said:


> Im riddled with resentment towards her and have been for years


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Come on... he is just saying that, apart from sex, his marriage is perfect. A reasonable statement.


Without sex, intimacy and romance there is no marriage.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Without sex, intimacy and romance there is no marriage.


If that were actually really true, there would be no sexless marriages.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Sure, perfectly reasonable. Except for the dead stinking elephant, rotting in his room part of it.


“Riddled with resentment“ sounds far from a perfect marriage.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Sure, perfectly reasonable. Except for the dead stinking elephant, rotting in his room part of it.


Yes, but he knows that. He is just saying... shame about the sex, because the rest is great. But sex is a big factor in a marriage, so I don't see him lasting much longer just because he otherwise gets on with his wife...


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> “Riddled with resentment“ sounds far from a perfect marriage.


But he is not saying that... he is saying the "rest of the marriage" is perfect, not the whole marriage.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> But he is not saying that... he is saying the "rest of the marriage" is perfect, not the whole marriage.


Riddled with by definition is scattered throughout the whole.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> He is just saying... shame about the sex, because the rest is great.


Uh huh, because being riddled with resentment over a massive thing, never spills over into other areas.

So I'm still not buying it.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Uh huh, because being riddled with resentment over a massive thing, never spills over into other areas.
> 
> So I'm still not buying it.
> 
> Denial isn't just a river in Egypt


well, he is obviously very good at compartmentalising...


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> well, he is obviously very good at compartmentalising...


Indeed. That's why I have encouraged him to keep at it, if it's working for him.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> If that were actually really true, there would be no sexless marriages.


Once they go sexless they aren't a marriage anymore, even if that is what they continue to erroneously call it.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Once they go sexless they aren't a marriage anymore, even if that is what they continue to erroneously call it.


It's a friendship/roommate situation at that point.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Once they go sexless they aren't a marriage anymore, even if that is what they continue to erroneously call it.


I don't know what the laws are like where you live, but where I live the *Marriage Act 1961* makes no mention of sex except where it has amendments related to the Sex Discrimination Act 1991.

Fortunately, at least for people who have been married in Australia. Sex is not a legal condition of marriage, so there is no legal obligation to have to share sex in a marriage if one doesn't want to.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> I don't know what the laws are like where you live, but where I live the *Marriage Act 1961* makes no mention of sex except where it has amendments related to the Sex Discrimination Act 1991.
> 
> Fortunately, at least for people who have been married in Australia. Sex is not a legal condition of marriage, so there is no legal obligation to have to share sex in a marriage if one doesn't want to.


This is an old chestnut... I have said in the past (in another thread - the platonic one) that if people want to get married without sex, what's the problem? It's just a different type of marriage. Most people objected that without sex it's not a marriage, full stop. You can't call it that. I have looked at many definitions of "marriage", but I've never found any mention of sex being a compulsory element...


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> This is an old chestnut... I have said in the past (in another thread - the platonic one) that if people want to get married without sex, what's the problem? It's just a different type of marriage. Most people objected that without sex it's not a marriage, full stop. You can't call it that. I have looked at many definitions of "marriage", but I've never found any mention of sex being a compulsory element...


Yet it is implied that when two people marry, sex is involved.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> I don't know what the laws are like where you live, but where I live the *Marriage Act 1961* makes no mention of sex except where it has amendments related to the Sex Discrimination Act 1991.
> 
> Fortunately, at least for people who have been married in Australia. Sex is not a legal condition of marriage, so there is no legal obligation to have to share sex in a marriage if one doesn't want to.


You don't have to do anything you don't want, even when married, but doesn't change my opinion. Without an intimate component it isn't a marriage in my view. I don't really care what the law says. 



In Absentia said:


> This is an old chestnut... I have said in the past (in another thread - the platonic one) that if people want to get married without sex, what's the problem? It's just a different type of marriage. Most people objected that without sex it's not a marriage, full stop. You can't call it that. I have looked at many definitions of "marriage", but I've never found any mention of sex being a compulsory element...


Roommates can claim to be married, but like the kid that identifies as a cat, just because they use the label doesn't make it so.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Yet it is implied that when two people marry, sex is involved.


yes, it's implied, but not written anywhere?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You don't have to do anything you don't want, even when married, but doesn't change my opinion. Without an intimate component it isn't a marriage in my view. I don't really care what the law says.
> 
> 
> Roommates can claim to be married, but like the kid that identifies as a cat, just because they use the label doesn't make it so.


If they are married, they are married. You say they aren't, they say they are...


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> If they are married, they are married. You say they aren't, they say they are...


And the kid is a cat too since they said they are, right?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> And the kid is a cat too since they said they are, right?


You can't compare the two. People get married and have a certificate. They are married but they are not having sex. It's not an opinion. They are married. If you don't think it's a marriage, fine by me and the cat......  what a lovely way to mark my 7,000th useless post...


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> yes, it's implied, but not written anywhere?


I penned in gotta have sex in our vows. Had to cross out some stuff to make it fit.


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Must be extremely difficult to go so long without making love. I don’t think I could exist in such a marriage. How do you?


I suppose i feel im conditioned to it. We're both in our mid 40s and we met when we were 18.

From early on I knew what to expect and at such a young age i believed that my sexual appetite was my problem and that I shouldnt burden my then girlfriend, now wife with it.

Ive learned that sex, intimacy and affection were something almost frowned upon or never spoken of in my wife parents. So my wife is as a result is quite prudish and doesnt prioritise sex.

Admittedly it is in my later years that this has been more problematic for me as I feel i missed out on so much as I still desire closeness and of course sex where it has dwindled much further down the list for my wife.

Its tremendously frustrating but im too long in the tooth to be changing anything now.

My wife doesnt see it as an issue and moans at me for moaning about it.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> You can't compare the two. People get married and have a certificate. They are married but they are not having sex. It's not an opinion. They are married. If you don't think it's a marriage, fine by me and the cat......  what a lovely way to mark my 7,000th useless post...





sunstoner said:


> I suppose i feel im conditioned to it. We're both in our mid 40s and we met when we were 18.
> 
> From early on I knew what to expect and at such a young age i believed that my sexual appetite was my problem and that I shouldnt burden my then girlfriend, now wife with it.
> 
> ...


You make a good point. I think parents are likely to have a significant impact. I know in the case of myself and my wife our parents were very open about their love and physical attraction for each other. They weren't humping in the living room or anything, but their body language and interactions made it obvious they loved and desired each other. I even saw it in my grandparents. They also never told us you shouldn't have sex. They only talked about having sex with someone you truly care about and love, and to be safe about it. We've tried to pass on that same attitude about it to our children.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

sunstoner said:


> I suppose i feel im conditioned to it. We're both in our mid 40s and we met when we were 18.
> 
> From early on I knew what to expect and at such a young age i believed that my sexual appetite was my problem and that I shouldnt burden my then girlfriend, now wife with it.
> 
> ...


Sounds familiar...


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

sunstoner said:


> I suppose i feel im conditioned to it. We're both in our mid 40s and we met when we were 18.
> 
> From early on I knew what to expect and at such a young age i believed that my sexual appetite was my problem and that I shouldnt burden my then girlfriend, now wife with it.
> 
> ...


The moaning is happening at the wrong times.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Marriage is about two people having an emotional investment in each other. That investment may or may not be expressed sexually. Or it may not be expressed with PIV intimacy. It is fairly common to have physical issues that do not allow PIV, but the couple continue to have an emotional investment despite that.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> Marriage is about two people having an emotional investment in each other. That investment may or may not be expressed sexually. Or it may not be expressed with PIV intimacy. It is fairly common to have physical issues that do not allow PIV, but the couple continue to have an emotional investment despite that.


Very true, which is why I usually try to say intimacy is a requirement, not just sex. There will come a time when you can't engage in traditional PIV intercourse, but that doesn't mean intimacy and emotional connection has to die.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

sunstoner said:


> I suppose i feel im conditioned to it. We're both in our mid 40s and we met when we were 18.


You're not dead yet.



> From early on I knew what to expect and at such a young age i believed that my sexual appetite was my problem and that I shouldnt burden my then girlfriend, now wife with it.


Wow! There's shooting oneself in the foot or believing that kind of nonsense. Both equally self limiting.

I've always shared a splendidly rich very frequent sex-life with various partners up to and including my wife. Yet I am certain if I thought the way you did, I'd be commiserating with you superfluously.



> Ive learned that sex, intimacy and affection were something almost frowned upon or never spoken of in my wife parents. So my wife is as a result is quite prudish and doesnt prioritise sex.


Well given what you have written as quoted further above, you don't and didn't prioritise sex either. So you are as responsible for this as your wife is.



> Admittedly it is in my later years that this has been more problematic for me as I feel i missed out on so much as I still desire closeness and of course sex where it has dwindled much further down the list for my wife.


Well if you thought sex was a burden and imposition even in your early days with your wife, how on earth could you excite your wife to ever want to share a rich sex life with you?



> Its tremendously frustrating but im too long in the tooth to be changing anything now.


Okay, yet it doesn't have to be this way.



> My wife doesnt see it as an issue and moans at me for moaning about it.


Can you blame her? Moaning to no end is pretty boring, and it isn't known for generating sexual desire either.


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> The moaning is happening at the wrong times.


Indeed and not enough!!


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

Personal said:


> You're not dead yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh goodness how to reply.....

1. I never moan about it. I hardly ever let my inner feelings spill out infront of or to my wife as I know it only adds tension in relationship and makes her feel uncomfortable.

2. The burden of my sexual desire which isnt a burden to me but is to my wife.

3. Sexual Priority thing. At 18 i was too inexperienced and immature to realise I had a choice. I had fallen in love so allowed my love for my then girlfriend to govern my priorities. Her and thus our happiness. If sex wasnt a priority for her then it wasnt for me then. I know and feel different now a good 28 yrs later.

I thought i was doing the right thing by not being lead by my d*ck!


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> yes, it's implied, but not written anywhere?


I have no idea. The Bible? I do know that when I attend a wedding, I think the bride and groom will be enjoying each other sexually.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I have no idea. The Bible? I do know that when I attend a wedding, I think the bride and groom will be enjoying each other sexually.


Not consummating a marriage is grounds for annulment, so doesn't that mean sex is an explicit part of marriage?


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> yes, it's implied, but not written anywhere?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





BigDaddyNY said:


> Not consummating a marriage is grounds for annulment, so doesn't that mean sex is an explicit part of marriage?


Is that right?

My wife was too tired on our wedding night for sex after such a busy day. Sign of things to come for me as it turns out but it didnt half piss me off at the time.

#thatslife


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

sunstoner said:


> Is that right?
> 
> My wife was too tired on our wedding night for sex after such a busy day. Sign of things to come for me as it turns out but it didnt half piss me off at the time.
> 
> #thatslife


Pisses you off now of she rejects? I never heard “no” dating her. then we married …


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

sunstoner said:


> Is that right?
> 
> My wife was too tired on our wedding night for sex after such a busy day. Sign of things to come for me as it turns out but it didnt half piss me off at the time.
> 
> #thatslife


If you aren't getting any on your wedding night you are (not) screwed from the start, lol.


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Pisses you off now of she rejects?


Of course it did and of course it does but thats life for me.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Not consummating a marriage is grounds for annulment, so doesn't that mean sex is an explicit part of marriage?


But based on what? Can’t find any info on this.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> But based on what? Can’t find any info on this.


You aren't looking hard enough . As of a few years ago about a dozen states required consummation for the marriage to be legitimate. All have provisions for annulment if a person gets someone to marry them then reveals they can't or won't consummate the marriage.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You aren't looking hard enough . As of a few years ago about a dozen states required consummation for the marriage to be legitimate. All have provisions for annulment if a person gets someone to marry them then reveals they can't or won't consummate the marriage.


Yes, but what are they basing their judgement on… I’m not being funny…


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, but what are they basing their judgement on… I’m not being funny…


Not quite sure what you mean. It is based on state law.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

sunstoner said:


> Of course it did and of course it does but thats life for me.


Have a talk with her. We did that here. Improved a lot


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Not quite sure what you mean. It is based on state law.


Is there a law in the US that clearly states that you have to have sex with your spouse? I can’t find it. But maybe I’m crap at it.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Is there a law in the US that clearly states that you have to have sex with your spouse? I can’t find it. But maybe I’m crap at it.


No


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No


Ok, thanks… that’s all I wanted to know, out of curiosity 😊


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Is there a law in the US that clearly states that you have to have sex with your spouse? I can’t find it. But maybe I’m crap at it.


There isn't a law that says you must have sex with your spouse. But there are state laws that grant annulment for a marriage that has not been consummated. So yeah, at some point sex is most definitely a part of marriage, according to law.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> There isn't a law that says you must have sex with your spouse. But there are state laws that grant annulment for a marriage that has not been consummated. So yeah, at some point sex is most definitely a part of marriage, according to law.


Good point


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

For example in NY these are the grounds for an annulment:

undissolved previous marriage
one spouse was underage at the time of marriage
one spouse is physically incapable of having sexual relations
consent to marriage by force, by fraud or incapability of consent to marriage

In the case of NY, if a man is impotent his wife can divorce him. 

There are at least a dozen other states that have similar laws. Seems sex IS a part of a legal marriage.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Because I found this legal basis for England and wales...

In England and Wales, under section 12 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973, any refusal or inability to consummate a marriage is a ground for annulment. It should be noted that consummation only applies to opposite sex couples. Paragraph 4, Schedule 4 of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013, specifically excludes non-consummation as a ground for annulment of a same sex marriage. Your marriage is likely to be ‘voidable’ if it has not been consummated and you can therefore apply for the marriage to be annulled. 









Is a Sexless Marriage Grounds for Divorce?


A sexless marriage doesn't have the be proven as a 'ground' for divorce, though your marriage may be void if has never been consummated.




www.wiselaw.co.uk


----------



## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If you aren't getting any on your wedding night you are (not) screwed from the start, lol.


Yep! That's how mine started, too. He was too tired and fell asleep.


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> Yep! That's how mine started, too. He was too tired and fell asleep.


Same here. Admittedly, i thought my new wife was joking at first.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Melinda82 said:


> Yep! That's how mine started, too. He was too tired and fell asleep.


We had a friend of my wife's staying over our wedding night. We lived in a studio flat and the sofa bed was in front of our bed... I wasn't very happy that my wife told her she could stay the night and that her friend had the cheek to ask her!


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> We had a friend of my wife's staying over our wedding night. We lived in a studio flat and the sofa bed was in front of our bed... I wasn't very happy that my wife told her she could stay the night and that her friend had the cheek to ask her!


That wouldn’t have stopped me. And I know this from experience, albeit not on any of my wedding nights.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> We had a friend of my wife's staying over our wedding night. We lived in a studio flat and the sofa bed was in front of our bed... I wasn't very happy that my wife told her she could stay the night and that her friend had the cheek to ask her!


That’s crazy. I mean, who would ask
and why would a new wife agree? Maybe one of them - or both - wanted a threesome?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> That wouldn’t have stopped me. And I know this from experience, albeit not on any of my wedding nights.


Luckily I got pretty pissed at the wedding, so I believe I tortured them with my snoring...  We did have lots of sex the following morning, when her friend left... ahhh... good memories...


----------



## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Sunstoner, your story is damn near identical to mine. My wife could care less about sex. I’ve been going back and forth in my head on how I end this after nearly 20 years of marriage. I’m not happy and she knows it. Deep down I don’t think she’s happy either.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> That’s crazy. I mean, who would ask
> and why would a new wife agree? Maybe one of them - or both - wanted a threesome?


Well, I didn't really fancy her friend, and I was drunk... to give you a clearer picture, we had been together 5 years when we got married, so it's not it like it was our first night. Still, I thought it was stupid. But we did spend a nice honeymoon in Rome the following week, with tons of sex in a very romantic hotel...


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> Sunstoner, your story is damn near identical to mine. My wife could care less about sex. I’ve been going back and forth in my head on how I end this after nearly 20 years of marriage. I’m not happy and she knows it. Deep down I don’t think she’s happy either.


Its not good is it!?

My wife is so pragmatic. She handles life at face value and never gets bogged down by negativity, either in thought or actions. She seems to permanently exist in this positive space. She never gets down emotionally nor gets over the top with excitement. To her, the elements of her life are good, incl our relationship. Yes, shes aware that her husband would like more regular sex but she also knows that I know how she feels about that so all is good in her world.

Despite having to accept the status quo with regards to sex each quarter (every 6-8 weeks if im real lucky!) for the love of my wife it doesnt mean im happy about it because im not but I have to just get by. Ive also toiled for years pondering what to do.

The added complication(s) are our 2 children and our ideal family home which we designed together and had built a little over a decade ago. Its in a beautiful little village in England.

I mentioned it above in a prev post only because its how ive come to see it but if you remove the sex, affection and romance then the other parts to our life are pretty good.

Giving this up after spending 28yrs getting here is what ultimately holds me back.

Im 46 now and do I really want to move out into pokey little flat or apartment, whilst causing all the upset to everyone involved. Plus there would be financial complications. Added to all that ive eventually got to navigate dating via an app or 2? and could easily walk into somebody elses family drama too?.

All because I want sex a bit more?

Of course im not happy living with a wife that barely wants sex, nor wants to go out on date nights or go anywhere in fact. Its total s**t and it eats me up from the inside everyday but leaving is a really hard sell I have to say.

Only on hindsight have I realised that I shouldve moved on after 6 mnths. At 18, I just couldnt see what was around the long winding corner.

My only comeback is to guide my children to not do the same.


----------



## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

sunstoner said:


> Its not good is it!?
> 
> My wife is so pragmatic. She handles life at face value and never gets bogged down by negativity, either in thought or actions. She seems to permanently exist in this positive space. She never gets down emotionally nor gets over the top with excitement. To her, the elements of her life are good, incl our relationship. Yes, shes aware that her husband would like more regular sex but she also knows that I know how she feels about that so all is good in her world.
> 
> ...


Totally understand you there. I have two kids as well and we all have a life built together. I honestly get happier when I think about moving on and just being involved with the kids lives. My wife and I are more on the friendship and co parent level than anything else right now. 

Our sexual desires are vastly different. What I want in a sex life is basic to me but disgusts her for some reason or she says it hurts to try that position or that other position, which are both typical positions. 

Our love languages are polar opposites too.


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

We went through a period of 7 years when we were doing it only once a month (she had a miscarriage in 2012 and adamantly refused to seek psychological help). Eventually I stated very clearly that we had to have sex more OFTEN (threatened divorce) and we slowly but surely started intimating again. We’re up to 10 times a month, but I want to do it more (at least 15 times). I’ve stated that much to her and she always ends up rolling her eyes at me.

Sometimes I think she just wants me to file for divorce.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

JBLH said:


> We went through a period of 7 years when we were doing it only once a month (she had a miscarriage in 2012 and adamantly refused to seek psychological help). Eventually I stated very clearly that we had to have sex more OFTEN (threatened divorce) and we slowly but surely started intimating again. We’re up to 10 times a month, but I want to do it more (at least 15 times). I’ve stated that much to her and she always ends up rolling her eyes at me.
> 
> Sometimes I think she just wants me to file for divorce.


What are you talking about? According to your other thread she is a serial cheater and you've already served her with divorce papers. Now here you make it sounds like lack of sex is your issue and you haven't filed yet.


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> What I want in a sex life is basic to me but disgusts her for some reason or she says it hurts to try that position or that other position, which are both typical


“Disgust” is a relative term. If your wife were to go out and meet a Brad Pitt, I can assure you she’d drain his balls and swallow every oral cream pie IN A HEARTBEAT. She’d try anal and do **** to Brad that she wouldn’t do with you.

It’s the nature of the beast.


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What are you talking about? According to your other thread she is a serial cheater and you've already served her with divorce papers. Now here you make it sounds like lack of sex is your issue and you haven't filed yet.


No, we haven’t divorced. She passed a poly test and I’ve decided to give her a second chance (she still has the divorce papers though, she can sign at any time). I stopped communicating with the Peruvian chick.

Sex right now is great. But it can get better.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

JBLH said:


> No, we haven’t divorced. She passed a poly test and I’ve decided to give her a second chance (she still has the divorce papers though, she can sign at any time). I stopped communicating with the Peruvian chick.
> 
> Sex right now is great. But it can get better.


Wow, major shift. I'm always happy to hear couples making things work, but I'm surprised you are okay with all the circumstantial evidence. You may want to update your other thread.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Wow, major shift. I'm always happy to hear couples making things work, but I'm surprised you are okay with all the circumstantial evidence. You may want to update your other thread.


How people change... she was an animal 2 minutes ago...


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Wow, major shift. I'm always happy to hear couples making things work, but I'm surprised you are okay with all the circumstantial evidence. You may want to update your other thread.


No, as far as I’m concerned, I’m done and dusted with that thread. The mods can lock it down if they want.

I’m still irritated by some posters insinuations that it’s all made up. That week in Italy was the second most difficult week in my life: 1) I’d just found out my wife was possibly engaging in adultery, 2) I had no one to confide with because I don’t speak the local language and 3) the cheating REALLY caught me by surprise, like I never in a million years thought she would even do something like that. And yet. Because of minucia, people insinuated I was making everything up. I got so tired of it I went to another forum, posted the story minus the divorce part to see what people would recommend and two a-holes started saying that I was a fraud, that I was posting conflictive information, etc. So, to cut right through the ****, I’m not posting anything anymore. Any steps I decide to take I’ll keep to myself or incorporate to other threads if my comment is in context.

I really don’t have any time to address the horse **** that is thrown at people when posting here such personal matters.

People are free to believe someone is lying, but let the silence be the judge, not some idiot who decides to hide behind a group and kidnap the conversation with “We know you’re lying.”


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> How people change... she was an animal 2 minutes ago...


Oh, she still is. I KNOW she is lying. I AM going to catch her cheating. I know she’s going to see the guy come September 6th because they will be working together. Eventually she will make a mistake.

I can tell she’s nervous… She knows she’s being watched, and wants to contact the guy, but can’t because she knows I’ll find out. She’s even watering the grass and plants. I’ve never seen her so on-edge. Dopamine is worst than crack.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Oh, she still is. I KNOW she is lying. I AM going to catch her cheating. I know she’s going to see the guy come September 6th because they will be working together. Eventually she will make a mistake.


Stay vigilant.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> Oh, she still is. I KNOW she is lying. I AM going to catch her cheating. I know she’s going to see the guy come September 6th because they will be working together. Eventually she will make a mistake.
> 
> I can tell she’s nervous… She knows she’s being watched, and wants to contact the guy, but can’t because she knows I’ll find out. She’s even watering the grass and plants. I’ve never seen her so on-edge. Dopamine is worst than crack.


You just keep contradicting yourself. You would divorce the “animal” you really despise, instead you give her another chance. That’s BS.


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> You just keep contradicting yourself. You would divorce the “animal” you really despise, instead you give her another chance. That’s BS.


Jeez, talk about a Save The Cheater foundation soldier.

Never seen anyone so irrationally hung up and triggered by a word. Amazing how much of a personal effect it’s had on you.


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Stay vigilant.


Oh, I will… Everything is ready to go. I’ve already told all the people she called to let them know I was an a-hole for leaving her that I was willing to continue with the marriage and go to marriage counseling. They’re all so happy that one of the family members is throwing an “end of the summer” bbq party and we’ve been invited.

Five minutes later I get a notice from an app I installed in her phone that she just accessed Google Docs (a well known cheater communication vehicle) in what is most likely a communication attempt with Richard. Wouldn’t be surprised if they try to meet before September 6th.

It’s going to be so GOD DAMMED NICE to take her condescending conceited ass down! I can’t wait to send everyone pictures of the two love birds to all the people we see at the bbq.

This is personal now. I’m on beast mode.

They haven’t seen each other, FOR SURE, for about 3 weeks and she is really edgy… like a crackhead who hasn’t been able to take a hit in a week… Dopamine high is worst than crack. I don’t recall her being this infatuated with me when we met. Adultery is way worst than falling in love.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Personal said:


> Now eleven times, in nine days.


You are my HERO!!!!! Lol!!!


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> Jeez, talk about a Save The Cheater foundation soldier.
> 
> Never seen anyone so irrationally hung up and triggered by a word. Amazing how much of a personal effect it’s had on you.


Yes, because it was pretty horrible. But I’m glad she’s been upgraded to human being again.


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, because it was pretty horrible. But I’m glad she’s been upgraded to human being again.


I reckon “horrible” is a bit too far. Calling Richard and my wife animals because, just like you, they can’t control their emotions isn’t “horrible”.

Take a deep breath. Stop letting words trigger you. You’ll live better.

This will be the last time I engage with you and your toxicity.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> This will be the last time I engage with you and your toxicity.


Happy with that.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

sunstoner said:


> Its not good is it!?
> 
> My wife is so pragmatic. She handles life at face value and never gets bogged down by negativity, either in thought or actions. She seems to permanently exist in this positive space. She never gets down emotionally nor gets over the top with excitement. To her, the elements of her life are good, incl our relationship. Yes, shes aware that her husband would like more regular sex but she also knows that I know how she feels about that so all is good in her world.
> 
> ...


So basically you are staying for money and because it's convenient.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

sunstoner said:


> Its not good is it!?
> 
> My wife is so pragmatic. She handles life at face value and never gets bogged down by negativity, either in thought or actions. She seems to permanently exist in this positive space. She never gets down emotionally nor gets over the top with excitement. To her, the elements of her life are good, incl our relationship. Yes, shes aware that her husband would like more regular sex but she also knows that I know how she feels about that so all is good in her world.
> 
> ...


Ask her for a open marriage.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

We had enjoying sex written into our vows. Didn’t help.

The thing is, nothing stays constant. If things change, even unilaterally, for the worse, no one is coming to fix it. You may not have any action open to you that can fix it. Life is a series of closing and locking doors. You can choose to just stand there, or you can try another door while it’s still unlocked. Ending things is sometimes what living a life requires.

@sunstoner, one challenge is the ability to see what you are missing, and also the passage of time and how things change or do not.

Im 10 years older. She has gotten more set in her ways. **** has happened that makes it harder to leave without seeing myself as someone I don’t want to be.

When I do leave, the chance of finding love and compatibility is smaller now. And the time we’d have to actually enjoy life together is shortened by a decade.

Just don’t fail to consider the invisible. The opportunity cost. And that your life gets shorter every day.


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> So basically you are staying for money and because it's convenient.


Errr no, because the rest of what we have is really good, that is the things we have built together over 28yrs. Its just a sh**ter about the sex and intimacy thing.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

sunstoner said:


> Errr no, because the rest of what we have is really good, that is the things we have built together over 28yrs. Its just a sh**ter about the sex and intimacy thing.


each person is different, but I’d go insane being in that situation.


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> each person is different, but I’d go insane being in that situation.


Its not easy, infact its felt like a level of emotional torture and I hate it but its weighing up the bigger picture versus me getting a bit of fun.

Any less than what weve done and Im sure I wouldve gone.


----------



## Mystic Moon (6 mo ago)

I have a plethora of health issues, and on the rare occasion we might go a month without sex. I don't want a sexless marriage, and neither does he. It might not be as frequent, or intense as it once was, but it's still great, and usually 1-2 times a week. We've been together 24 years.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

sunstoner said:


> Its not easy, infact its felt like a level of emotional torture and I hate it but its weighing up the bigger picture versus me getting a bit of fun.
> 
> Any less than what weve done and Im sure I wouldve gone.


I don't consider the emotional fulfillment and comfort of intimacy that comes from sex with my wife to be a "bit of fun". I call it vital, as vital as oxygen and food. You are in fact prioritizing money and other aspects of your marriage above your emotional, intimate sexual needs. You are putting up with "emotional torture" to keep those other things. Those other things must be awfully valuable to you, or I hope so anyway.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You are putting up with "emotional torture" to keep those other things.


Everyone performs the mental calculus every day based on their own subjective criteria and estimation of benefits or losses from changing or staying.

What seems untenable to one person is acceptable to another. Every circumstance is different.

In the case of person married for a long time, there is tremendous inertia that favors not rocking the boat. A guy who aint getting any from his wife of decades, who knows him well has no reason to think he will have any better after he spends more than half of his financial and emotional resources breaking “free”.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Self-concept is destiny.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Everyone performs the mental calculus every day based on their own subjective criteria and estimation of benefits or losses from changing or staying.
> 
> What seems untenable to one person is acceptable to another. Every circumstance is different.
> 
> In the case of person married for a long time, there is tremendous inertia that favors not rocking the boat. A guy who aint getting any from his wife of decades, who knows him well has no reason to think he will have any better after he spends more than half of his financial and emotional resources breaking “free”.


When your house is on fire throughout it's always best to get gone.


----------



## Landofblue (May 28, 2019)

Hi. I was wondering. Why isn’t her finding a new job away from Richard a requirement for working on rebuilding your relationship?


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Landofblue said:


> Hi. I was wondering. Why isn’t her finding a new job away from Richard a requirement for working on rebuilding your relationship?


He has no interest in rebuilding the relationship. He's just sticking around in hopes he catches her red handed.


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> He has no interest in rebuilding the relationship. He's just sticking around in hopes he catches her red handed.


Exactly. My number #1 goal right now is exposing this animal. See, she is an awful wife but happens to be a very good everything else (cousin, friend, aunt, etc). I want to show everyone what a conniving, backstabbing, mental, psychopath animal that she HAS BECOME.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Exactly. My number #1 goal right now is exposing this animal. See, she is an awful wife but happens to be a very good everything else (cousin, friend, aunt, etc). I want to show everyone what a conniving, backstabbing, mental, psychopath animal that she HAS BECOME.


Be carful that you don't become that which you despise so much.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> He has no interest in rebuilding the relationship. He's just sticking around in hopes he catches her red handed.


@JBLH 

Think of the energy you could save by accepting you're screwed and just move on if she's that horrible. This doesn't have to be Moby D!cc story


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Be carful that you don't become that which you despise so much.


I don’t despise psychopaths. I just want to expose them so that the people around them are able to make informed decisions.

If the divorce is ever finalized, I want her to “wear” the cheater Scarlett Letter for the rest of her life.


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> @JBLH
> 
> Think of the energy you could save by accepting you're screwed and just move on if she's that horrible. This doesn't have to be Moby D!cc story


Point taken. This is personal now…


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...


I get it (well obviously I dont LOL),,no I mean get your puzzlement over this and I can only assume that for those that are used to regular sex in a relationship then that requirement or benchmark or sexual need sits high up there alongside the other bits n pieces that make up a good relationship for you. Your baseline is already set out.

Its hard to explain in a way that makes sense, but I think it was as said above, when I was 18 and I met my now wife who was 17 at the time, of course I was burning with sexual desire. My wife less so at the time and I suppose being so young but madly in love, I guess I felt the proper thing to do was not to hassle her or put pressure on her etc etc. and I guess overtime her needs ended up governing my own. On hindsight I do blame myself for letting this happen. 

I do think the whole being in love thing ruled my senses and emotions on this as I never wanted to upset her or make her uncomfortable, my heightened sex drive was my issue (as I thought of it back then!). As such I was willing to put the amount of sex to oneside just to spend time with her. Dont get me wrong when were this young we were having more sex than now but it still wasnt as regular as I have liked.

I dunno, I guess I was too inexperienced to see the longer term problems that it would create. Maybe I thought it would change?

Unsurprisingly (to most here) there are side affects to all this that I have lived with over these 28 years. I have become incredibly resentful towards my wife, although, I keep a lid on it to keep things civil but it stirs deeply everyday. 

I just smile and try and live with it.

Its crap, it really is but compared to the alternative, im not so sure.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

sunstoner said:


> Its crap, it really is but compared to the alternative, im not so sure.


Is there ever a thought about “what would the alternative really be like”? Sometimes we imagine an alternate path would be worst ever. 

Wouldn’t it at minimum be interesting to find out for real what is on the other side of the mountain? Maybe it would be wonderful. Maybe it would be crappier. Wouldnt it be fun to find out? Before the clock expires on our one and only life.


----------



## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

We went 6.5 years without sex. I just lost all libido. I went to doctors, they just kept changing my hyper-tension meds. In March 2022, I was hurting badly and had my wife take me to the hospital.

After 10 years of going to my primary physician, cardiologist, and four trips to the ER, the new ER doctor, who was recently discharged from the Navy, found the root problem. Instead of just blaming the high blood pressure, she listened and ran an abdominal CAT Scan on me. She came in the room around 3:00 AM and told us, there was a 5.8 cm tumor on my left kidney.

Long story short, I had a redical left nephrectomy and I had stage 2 clear cell cancer. Thankfully the cancer had not spread. Fast forward 10 weeks from the surgery, I had recovered from the trauma. My blood pressure was normal, the cardiologist said I have the cadio system of a 25 year old. I feel better than I have in a decade. The body-wide inflamation went away, I felt energy returning and could work out and my sex drive returned. I now have low T, which in part is due to my age.

The lesson is that no sex in marriage is not necessarily an inditement on the marriage or the couple. Thankfully my wife loved me, not just sex with me. We still were intimate, just not sexually. That aspect of our intmacy has returned.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BootsAndJeans said:


> The lesson is that no sex in marriage is not necessarily an inditement on the marriage or the couple. Thankfully my wife loved me, not just sex with me. *We still were intimate, just not sexually.*


That is the key in my mind. Intimacy can still be achieved.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Wives can go a long time without. Husbands? Not so much


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is the key in my mind. Intimacy can still be achieved.


Yeah but it's like owning a sports car but parking it in the garage and never driving it.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Wives can go a long time without. Husbands? Not so much


Your wife may want to go a long time without sharing sex with you. On the other hand you should appreciate the fact, that there are lots of other wives, who don't like going a long time without sharing sex with their spouses.

As always what you experience with your wife, is not the experience of all other married people. That said if you added the caveat of "some" to your claim, you wouldn't be wrong.

Also to further disabuse you of the notion that plenty of wives don't like or want sex, the following discussions can help you.









Women - what's your sex drive like?


Only want women to answer the poll. Answer what you would like for the frequency of sex, not how much you may or may not being it at this time. If you are man, please do not answer the poll. But of course you are free to post.




www.talkaboutmarriage.com













The Sex Starved Wife


I would like this thread to be a resource for women who are in sexless, or near sexless marriages in which it is their husbands who don’t want sex. I’m hoping that women dealing with this issue will post and talk about what they are going through. About 20% of marriages are sexless. A sexless...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

For some people, sex is not the top priority. Just find someone who's compatible with you. If then they change for no apparent reason or they don't want sex any more, or they are not attracted to you any more, or they become obese and hate their body - whatever reason - you can leave. You are in charge of your life.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Your wife may want to go a long time without sharing sex with you. On the other hand you should appreciate the fact, that there are lots of other wives, who don't like going a long time without sharing sex with their spouses.
> 
> As always what you experience with your wife, is not the experience of all other married people. That said if you added the caveat of "some" to your claim, you wouldn't be wrong.
> 
> ...


We do well here. Twice a week average- more some weeks- not bad for ages 63 and soon 62.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> We do well here. Twice a week average- more some weeks- not bad for ages 63 and soon 62.


Okay. Then given your experience, your claim doesn't make sense.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Okay. Then given your experience, your claim doesn't make sense.


Didn’t say “my wife” or “all wives” Just said generic “wives.“ Yes, some go without a long time. And that can happen in any marriage; we were twice a month five years ago. Sheesh. are you the White House press corps?


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

..................


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> Yeah but it's like owning a sports car but parking it in the garage and never driving it.


You have to deal with the hand you are dealt. If you have ED that can't be fixed then PIV sex is going to be off the table, but there are SO many other things you can do to maintain intimacy. My wife and I spend a lot of time doing intimate activities other than sex that requires an erect penis, lol, don't know how else to describe it. I know if the day comes I can't get it up anymore, we will still have a fantastic intimate life and I plan on still satisfying my wife's needs.


----------



## Mystic Moon (6 mo ago)

If it is due to a lack of interest, then there is a problem. If both parties are not willing to fix the issue, it will only get worse.
There are also MANY medical reasons that keep people from having sex, or very limited sex, and not all of them have a solution. Open and honest conversations are a good start to figure out what's going on. Empathy and compassion are needed if there is any chance of working through a slump in a couples sex life. Blame, and resentment will just make a bad situation worse.

My libido was destroyed by a hysterectomy, overnight! Without an understanding husband, a lot of mental work on my part, and a LOT of patience, we worked through it. Two years of trying to dial in my hormone replacement medications was an emotive roller coaster from h***! Until things got sorted out I was severely depressed, felt worthless, had horrible self esteem, and was terrified that I would never enjoy sex again. My libido is still a shadow of what it used to be. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but thankfully I have a supportive husband who knows it was not my choice, or my fault. There are still times it causes friction between us, but it's rare. 

If sex suddenly becomes an issue in a relationship, I would suggest an appointment with a doctor to rule out medical issues, before assuming anything negative about the relationship, or one's partner.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BoSlander said:


> I don’t despise psychopaths. I just want to expose them so that the people around them are able to make informed decisions.
> 
> If the divorce is ever finalized, I want her to “wear” the cheater Scarlett Letter for the rest of her life.


I think branding an A on her is illegal any more.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Mystic Moon said:


> *If sex suddenly becomes an issue in a relationship, I would suggest an appointment with a doctor to rule out medical issues, before assuming anything negative about the relationship, or one's partner*.


This is great advice, unfortunately the partner with lack of interest in sex often sees no problem with their lack of desire. Going to the doctor means they are admitting there might be something wrong with them and from their perspective they are just fine. They just have a partner that is too obsessed sex, in their eyes. 

This is just a guess, but I suspect the lack of sex in a marriage is rarely due to a medical issue.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> This is great advice, unfortunately the partner with lack of interest in sex often sees no problem with their lack of desire. Going to the doctor means they are admitting there might be something wrong with them and from their perspective they are just fine. They just have a partner that is too obsessed sex, in their eyes.
> 
> This is just a guess, but I suspect the lack of sex in a marriage is rarely due to a medical issue.


more age = more medical issues.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> more age = more medical issues.


well, yes... I have a bad bout of sciatica right now... I don't think I could have sex...


----------



## Mystic Moon (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> This is great advice, unfortunately the partner with lack of interest in sex often sees no problem with their lack of desire. Going to the doctor means they are admitting there might be something wrong with them and from their perspective they are just fine. They just have a partner that is too obsessed sex, in their eyes.
> 
> This is just a guess, but I suspect the lack of sex in a marriage is rarely due to a medical issue.


When I was studying human sexuality, medical issues were a pretty common reason for troubles in the bedroom. One of the main issues is that people (especially women) are often afraid to seek medical attention because something serious might be wrong, or they will be told "its all in their head". It's also not uncommon for men to be too embarrassed to seek help, and instead they will often blame their partner for their own lack of a sex drive (ie: she let herself go after having kids, or doesn't initiate sex, so she must not be interested, etc.).

As people age libido can. and very likely will, wane at some point. regardless of how much people want to maintain a healthy sex drive. Add to that the physical parts don't want to work like they used to. It's really not something to be ashamed of, yet so many people suffer because they are too nervous, embarrassed, or stubborn, to have a candid conversation with their doctor. Sometimes it's as easy to fix as a pill, or hormone cream/injection. While other times it might take therapy, and working on the relationship. Unfortunately, it could also be something more serious, but many of the medical conditions that impact one's sex life are treatable. 

Whatever the cause, ignoring it is rarely the best course of actin to take, yet many people do exactly that.


----------



## Mystic Moon (6 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> well, yes... I have a bad bout of sciatica right now... I don't think I could have sex...


I deal with sciatica, and degenerative disc issues in my neck and lower back. Sex is still possible, you just have to be gentle, and be creative. Body pillows and wedge pillows, different positions, light stretching, and yoga can all be helpful, as long as you don't overdo it. 😉


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mystic Moon said:


> I deal with sciatica, and degenerative disc issues in my neck and lower back. Sex is still possible, you just have to be gentle, and be creative. Body pillows and wedge pillows, different positions, light stretching, and yoga can all be helpful, as long as you don't overdo it. 😉


I still don't think I could have sex at the height of the bout... when I'm getting constant electric shocks in my buttock and down my leg... when it settles, yes. Not that I have anybody to have sex with right now...


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> well, yes... I have a bad bout of sciatica right now... I don't think I could have sex...


Wife n I routinely suffer from bouts of sciatica. Wife in PT for it now in fact. It is just a matter of getting positioned to take pressure off of the sciatic nerve during engagement. There are 120(?) possible positions? No problem really.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Not that I have anybody to have sex with right now...


Guaranteed an enthusiastic creative partner would fix you right up.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Mystic Moon said:


> Whatever the cause, ignoring it is rarely the best course of actin to take, yet many people do exactly that.


Use it or lose it. The less sex a person of any age has the less they want. That is how people end up in a sexless marriage. One day at a time


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> Guaranteed an enthusiastic creative partner would fix you right up.


Possibly...


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

KindBuddha said:


> They can go so long without sex because, psychologically as well as sexually, they are not actually a "couple" any longer. At some point they just became roommates/co-parents/financial partners. Many women seem to think this is just fine.


Sad but true. that’s why I never stop pursuit


----------



## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

KindBuddha said:


> They can go so long without sex because, psychologically as well as sexually, they are not actually a "couple" any longer. At some point they just became roommates/co-parents/financial partners. Many women seem to think this is just fine.


I am thinking some women just wants kids, and sex with men is how to get there. And they want the men to stick around to help out, so marriage is how to get that. So the result is, a marriage, now with kids (what she wanted), a husband (to help out and not leaving the equation, yet) and sex is no longer needed.

i also believe “if you want sex and you can’t get it at home, you will get it somewhere else.” I guess if sex with spouses is no long an option, the “most harmless” way is masturbation, maybe porn as well. Some would cheat on their spouses but that’s up the risk level. Yes? No?

for the sexless marriage, I also wonder if “one or more parties has no sex drive?” Meaning he or she doesn’t think about nor want sex? Or “of course I want sex, but I just don’t want to do it with ‘you’.”

so some women has zero sex drive? They don’t think about sex at all? Or they think about sex, just not with the man that they are with?


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

KindBuddha said:


> They can go so long without sex because, psychologically as well as sexually, they are not actually a "couple" any longer. At some point they just became roommates/co-parents/financial partners. Many women seem to think this is just fine.


Just to balance this a bit. There is a male contributor on TAM, don't remember who, that had undiagnosed very low T in his thirties. He wrote that during those times, sex was like below making a shopping list on his agenda. He never even thought about it. Then one day he realized they hadn't done the deed in three months(?) Guess his wife wasn't complaining ( I forget the details ). But for whatever reason, he got checked, treated and returned to regular activity. 

I didn't get the sense from his posts on the subject that they had stopped considering themselves a couple in every respect ( except sex, which just kept slipping his mind ).

I have a LOT of men my age who are way more interested in fishing or woodworking than doing their old lady. And their wives aren't complaining. In fact one of the wives told my wife how glad she was that her husband had stopped "pestering" her for sex. Not sure how they got to that point, but suspect one day at a time. Maybe the wife started turning him down because his beer belly was a turnoff. Maybe he got ED because of being rejected and/or the wife nagged him all of the time about not doing enough chores. So maybe in their case, at least sexually, they are no longer a "couple". But, they still do other things as a couple. On cruises, go to church together every Sunday, have meals together, engage in hobbies together. If he hadn't confided in me, and his wife in my wife we wouldn't know their situation. Which they are BOTH very fine with.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Just to balance this a bit. There is a male contributor on TAM, don't remember who, that had undiagnosed very low T in his thirties. He wrote that during those times, sex was like below making a shopping list on his agenda. He never even thought about it. Then one day he realized they hadn't done the deed in three months(?) Guess his wife wasn't complaining ( I forget the details ). But for whatever reason, he got checked, treated and returned to regular activity.
> 
> I didn't get the sense from his posts on the subject that they had stopped considering themselves a couple in every respect ( except sex, which just kept slipping his mind ).
> 
> I have a LOT of men my age who are way more interested in fishing or woodworking than doing their old lady. And their wives aren't complaining. In fact one of the wives told my wife how glad she was that her husband had stopped "pestering" her for sex. Not sure how they got to that point, but suspect one day at a time. Maybe the wife started turning him down because his beer belly was a turnoff. Maybe he got ED because of being rejected and/or the wife nagged him all of the time about not doing enough chores. So maybe in their case, at least sexually, they are no longer a "couple". But, they still do other things as a couple. On cruises, go to church together every Sunday, have meals together, engage in hobbies together. If he hadn't confided in me, and his wife in my wife we wouldn't know their situation. Which they are BOTH very fine with.


That makes them good friends who are roommates, travel pals and business partners.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DLC said:


> so some women has zero sex drive? They don’t think about sex at all? Or they think about sex, just not with the man that they are with?


There is a scientific paper that explains what this is about. It is called "Responsive Desire". It isn't some nefarious plot, it is just how humans in general are wired. And, recognizing that a woman in an LTR will respond to romancing solves the "problem". It isn't zero drive ( unless their man has turned into an unattractive lout ). It is like a parked Lamborghini. If a skilled driver climbs into the driver's seat and starts the engine, lovingly allows the engine oil to warm, gently pulls away from the curb and revs the engine a little in the lower gears, she will very readily go over 200 mph.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> That makes them good friends who are roommates, travel pals and business partners.


True, but they are BOTH happy with that arrangement. Neither is upset of pining for what was when they were 20 years old. For all I know they may fondly recall with one another the wild sexual adventures they once shared. They BOTH enjoy each others company. They have a lifetime history together. Memories. Grandchildren. The killer of older people is loneliness, not lack of sex. I strongly suspect that nearly everyone arrives at that stage of life. Some just later than others.

If you stick around long enough it may even happen to you


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> There is a scientific paper that explains what this is about. It is called "Responsive Desire". It isn't some nefarious plot, it is just how humans in general are wired. And, recognizing that a woman in an LTR will respond to romancing solves the "problem". It isn't zero drive ( unless their man has turned into an unattractive lout ). It is like a parked Lamborghini. If a skilled driver climbs into the driver's seat and starts the engine, lovingly allows the engine oil to warm, gently pulls away from the curb and revs the engine a little in the lower gears, she will very readily go over 200 mph.


And if an unskilled driver gets in, an epic fail on youtube!


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> And if an unskilled driver gets in, an epic fail on youtube!


Indeed! A lot of money up in smoke!


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> True, but they are BOTH happy with that arrangement. Neither is upset of pining for what was when they were 20 years old. For all I know they may fondly recall with one another the wild sexual adventures they once shared. They BOTH enjoy each others company. They have a lifetime history together. Memories. Grandchildren. The killer of older people is loneliness, not lack of sex. I strongly suspect that nearly everyone arrives at that stage of life. Some just later than others.
> 
> If you stick around long enough it may even happen to you


I still wouldn't consider them an intimate couple though.

As far as me, I'm never getting married again, but that doesn't mean I'll be lonely. 😉


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Indeed! A lot of money up in smoke!


My concern is AGAIN the blame is being put on the man for not doing the right things. Doesn't the woman have some responsibility?


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> There is a scientific paper that explains what this is about. It is called "Responsive Desire". It isn't some nefarious plot, it is just how humans in general are wired. And, recognizing that a woman in an LTR will respond to romancing solves the "problem". It isn't zero drive ( unless their man has turned into an unattractive lout ). It is like a parked Lamborghini. If a skilled driver climbs into the driver's seat and starts the engine, lovingly allows the engine oil to warm, gently pulls away from the curb and revs the engine a little in the lower gears, she will very readily go over 200 mph.


Vroom


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> My concern is AGAIN the blame is being put on the man for not doing the right things. Doesn't the woman have some responsibility?


Oh for sure! It is a two-way street. Unless BOTH are interested in sharing a vibrant sexual relationship it can't happen. It takes two to "tango" obviously. But either can allow the fire to go out, which can lead the other to decide they are fine with the fire not being rekindle.

I was responding to the post mentioning it was the *woman* who had zero drive. "They can go so long without sex because, psychologically as well as sexually, they are not actually a "couple" any longer. At some point they just became roommates/co-parents/financial partners. *Many women seem to think this is just fine*."

I am married to a woman who is nearing 80 years old, whose drive is as strong as this old man can handle. I started injecting T in order to keep up. But still, I could imagine a time because of health issues when that will be a part of life we can remember but can no longer participate in. We have one another as long as we are both alive, and that is the most important thing as far as I am concerned. In sickness and in health, etc.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> Fair point....
> 
> Just out of curiosity, If you hit the lottery tomorrow, would you still stay??


absolutely not! 😆


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> That depends.
> 
> Each spouse also has a responsibility to keep themselves desirable and treat each other decently.
> 
> If one puts on 100lbs and let’s themself go and has BO and bad breath and rotten teeth, then it’s on them if their partner doesn’t want to touch them.


Or starts smoking cigars, reeks of the smoke or alcohol and goes to bed without showering, generally treats you with no respect, no way is any of that attractive. I moved out of the bedroom 1.5 years ago, we tried a few times, neither of us into it. I want sex but not with him. was on holidays with kid last month, I was drunk he went for it and I went along but stopped it, can’t have sex with someone who has gaslit me for years, kept secrets and been a selfish bastard, just can’t. Would rather go out and **** a stranger. Still married ( in name only) but dream of divorce every day.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I think your confusing a number of different topics and concepts.
> 
> yes a person will live and breathe and survive prolonged celibacy.
> 
> ...


Exactly 💯 % Back when my kids were young and wife was in full on super mommy mode and forgot she was a wife 1st. I was ready to punch out after sex decreased to ~3x month. 

I hated that the longer it was, the more I noticed and was drawn toward other attractive females. I had building resentment and it is tiring to constantly and actively redirect yourself away from looking at or thinking about other women in that way.
Now that we have sex ~5 days a week, there is no attraction to other women. Women just do not understand the difficult places they put their husbands in by not having regular sex.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> . Women just do not understand the difficult places they put their husbands in by not having regular sex.


Actually the way I see it, they are missing out on what they could have if they did have a regular sex life.

For me anyway, when I have a full tank, I am irritable, short tempered, demanding, more aggressive and as you said, starting to notice other women more and more.

conversely, if we do have sex, I am pleasant and cooperative and warm and affectionate and content with world.

i have come right out and told my wife I am surprised that she doesn’t make me have sex on a regular if for no other reason than it makes me a more pleasant and cooperative person.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> It’s an organ, not a muscle! Lol


Haven't you ever heard, Russel the love muscle!


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> Exactly 💯 % Back when my kids were young and wife was in full on super mommy mode and forgot she was a wife 1st. I was ready to punch out after sex decreased to ~3x month.
> 
> I hated that the longer it was, the more I noticed and was drawn toward other attractive females. I had building resentment and it is tiring to constantly and actively redirect yourself away from looking at or thinking about other women in that way.
> Now that we have sex ~5 days a week, there is no attraction to other women. Women just do not understand the difficult places they put their husbands in by not having regular sex.


Five a week! And I thought three was good.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

This sex thing, I don't understand it any more. I thought I did and I thought it was simple but it turned into a nightmare and I don't even know why, really. I can only speculate. Sigh.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> This sex thing, I don't understand it any more. I thought I did and I thought it was simple but it turned into a nightmare and I don't even know why, really. I can only speculate. Sigh.


Way I see it: get it when you can. Don’t make a big deal about it. Quit caring if your partner has fun. That’s on him or her or both. Enjoy yourself


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> each person is different, but I’d go insane being in that situation.


He is one that sex is just a feel good thing. I was about to divorce my wife at 3x month.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> This sex thing, I don't understand it any more. I thought I did and I thought it was simple but it turned into a nightmare and I don't even know why, really. I can only speculate. Sigh.


Humans are a mess sexually (as in other ways). The other apes aren't a bit concerned about what position(s) to try, or the females refusing the male's advances because he only approaches those that are in estrus.The male doesn't deal with ED, because when he is too old to do the deed well and often he is retired by the females. They deal with "infidelity" within the troop, by the alphja kicking the A$$ of any male who poaches his women.

Hard to imagine why something so simple and basic ends up being such a big damn deal with so much hair on it. Perusing these forums, there is sure a ton of misery on display dealing with something no more difficult than eating a peach or a banana.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> Humans are a mess sexually (as in other ways). The other apes aren't a bit concerned about what position(s) to try, or the females refusing the male's advances because he only approaches those that are in estrus.The male doesn't deal with ED, because when he is too old to do the deed well and often he is retired by the females. They deal with "infidelity" within the troop, by the alphja kicking the A$$ of any male who poaches his women.











When Are Women Most Likely to Be Promiscuous?


It was a moment that smashed assumptions with the force of a wrecking ball. She approached the sexy older male who seemed to arrive from out of...




slate.com


----------



## curiouswife4 (Oct 15, 2019)

*"How can married couples go so long without sex"*

It blows my mind! Why be married? We could be roomies and i could get me a man who will have sex with me. Gheez!

https://www.talkaboutmarriage.com/t...s-go-so-long-without-sex.447782/post-20646510


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

curiouswife4 said:


> *"How can married couples go so long without sex"*
> 
> It blows my mind! Why be married? We could be roomies and i could get me a man who will have sex with me. Gheez!
> 
> How can married couples go so long without sex


Exactly


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Personal said:


> When Are Women Most Likely to Be Promiscuous?
> 
> 
> It was a moment that smashed assumptions with the force of a wrecking ball. She approached the sexy older male who seemed to arrive from out of...
> ...


Dr Wednesday Martin talks about this stuff quite a bit in her books and podcasts.

Her background is in evolutionary biology, anthropology and primatology so kind of spans the gamut of human and primate behavior.

much of her premise is that much of the findings of primate and human sexual behavior of the past and many of the theories and presumptions are simply wrong and based on flawed research and bad data.

I’m not quoting her but rather stating my own highly condensed interpretations of her podcasts.

basically stated, previous field research of primate didn’t watch the lady primates long enough. Yes there were big ol silver back gorillas that had harems that he would guard and chase off other males that came sniffing around.

but the original field researchers documented those observations and stated that the alpha males banged all the chics and chased off other males.

bit they didn’t watch the girls long enough. While the silver back was taking a snooze, banging another chic or fighting with a another male, the girls would sneak behind a tree and get down with another male or even another female and then got back on her branch before the silver back came back.

early researchers also postulated that multiple matings were not beneficial to female mating strategy, but this was not true with more in depth observation. Females that mated with multiple males got provisioning of food and supplies from the other males, and in cases where invading tribes would attack, the males she had mated with would provide additional protection to her and her offspring.

it was also postulated that the more males a female would mate with, the more good sperm she would get from the virile males and would drain their tanks leaving them less likely to provide good sperm to her female competitors

and perhaps most importantly, male great apes have a nasty habit of killing the offspring of other males, which will cause a nursing female to go into ovulation and give him a chance to pass on his genes.

however the observers so no infanticide from any of the other males that had bred with her and some would intervene if another male was trying to kill the offspring of a female he had mated with as that might be his own genetic offspring.

so while early researchers concluded that there was little or no evolutionary benefit to female promiscuity, more recent observation shows lots of benefit for female multiple mating strategies.

now how much of this applies to modern humans we can argue.

however much of the social narrative and sociological literature for the last 159 years since the Dawn of modern social and sexual research has been predicated on the assumption that females have lesser sex drive than males and also less prone to mate outside of marriage.

however much of that data has been based on self reporting rather that field observation (ie hidden cameras 24/7.

as that data is mostly self reporting via surveys and polls, We must remember that up until the last 20-30 years, almost all adult women were married and had minor children at the time of the surveys.

mothers of young children that have been in long term relationships for a number of years and past the NRE/Honeymoon period that are rearing young children are not going to report high sex drives and many are not going to confess to affairs to researchers.

The data just simply isn’t accurate and does not represent the whole story. 

many of these women do have sex drives, just not for their husbands at the time of reporting while they were rearing young offspring.

And until we start hiding cameras and following people 24/7 without their knowledge and consent (completely unethical in research). We will never know the true degree of shenanigans that takes place out there. But it’s likely way more than we’ll ever know.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@oldshirt I was just providing a link, that shows other primates aren't behaving quite the way @Rus47 has described.

Here is some more.









Promiscuous primates engage in same-sex genital interactions - PubMed


Same-sex genital interactions (SSGIs) occur across the order primates, yet explaining their maintenance in evolutionary terms appears problematic; as such interactions seem to counteract reproductive goals. We hypothesised that in more promiscuous species, where sexual motivation, mating effort...




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov













Why do female bonobos have more sex with each other than with males?


Female bonobos have frequent sexual interactions with other females — more so than they do with males. A new study aims to find out why.




www.medicalnewstoday.com













Bonobo Sex and Society


The behavior of a close relative challenges assumptions about male supremacy in human evolution




www.scientificamerican.com


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What in the world... from what page did this thread divulge into a discussion about primate mating behaviour?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> What in the world... from what page did this thread divulge into a discussion about primate mating behaviour?


It started with addressing the claim that other apes do the following.



Rus47 said:


> They deal with "infidelity" within the troop, by the alphja kicking the A$$ of any male who poaches his women.


When the reality is, promiscuity is frequently rampant in other primates, and that the claimed ass kickings is not what normally happens with Bonobos, Chimpanzees and a range of other primates. Not forgetting the same applies for lots of humans as well.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Birds do it
bees do it …


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Way I see it: get it when you can. Don’t make a big deal about it. Quit caring if your partner has fun. That’s on him or her or both. Enjoy yourself


Well, I will have to find another woman first...


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

aine said:


> Or starts smoking cigars, reeks of the smoke or alcohol and goes to bed without showering, generally treats you with no respect, no way is any of that attractive. I moved out of the bedroom 1.5 years ago, we tried a few times, neither of us into it. I want sex but not with him. was on holidays with kid last month, I was drunk he went for it and I went along but stopped it, *can’t have sex with someone who has gaslit me for years, kept secrets and been a selfish bastard, just can’t*. Would rather go out and **** a stranger. Still married ( in name only) but dream of divorce every day.


I completely understand this, but then how can you be married to him if he's like this either? 

For me, if I don't have sexual desire for a man, I don't want a relationship with him at all. I want to be free to find the man I DO want to have lots of sex and a full, loving relationship with.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> I completely understand this, but then how can you be married to him if he's like this either?
> 
> For me, if I don't have sexual desire for a man, I don't want a relationship with him at all. I want to be free to find the man I DO want to have lots of sex and a full, loving relationship with.


Agree but right now things are complicated


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> I completely understand this, but then how can you be married to him if he's like this either?
> 
> For me, if I don't have sexual desire for a man, I don't want a relationship with him at all. I want to be free to find the man I DO want to have lots of sex and a full, loving relationship with.


From the heart^


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Well, I will have to find another woman first...


And you know you can do that with little difficulty after you divorce. Tomorrow isn’t promised, make the most of life while the sun shines.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> And you know you can do that with little difficulty after you divorce. Tomorrow isn’t promised, make the most of life while the sun shines.


I might have to skip women to be happy at this stage of my life...


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I might have to skip women to be happy at this stage of my life...


But you haven't even TRIED...why would you give up without even trying? Won't you regret that, not taking a chance to find something special?


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

aine said:


> Agree but right now things are complicated


Unless, a person has become a hermit, our lives become, ever more entangled, as we age.

We can divorce our spouse, not so all the strings and relationships that bind us.

Bind us, mind us.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I might have to skip women to be happy at this stage of my life...


ah, horny guys on your list? LOL We don't judge. Whatever floats your boat.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It is no secret, that monkey branching makes divorce all that much easier.

Especially, for one who is codependent.

Having no intimacy at home is a driver for seeking it elsewhere.

That elsewhere must show a lot of promise to inspire a cautious person to leap (monkey branch).

Prior cheating or not.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> It is no secret, that monkey branching makes divorce all that much easier.
> 
> Especially, for one who is codependent.
> 
> ...


never heard "monkey branch" before. Does it mean leaping from branch to branch, or person to person?


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> I might have to skip women to be happy at this stage of my life...


With women comes drama, the happy type 😊, or not!


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> never heard "monkey branch" before. Does it mean leaping from branch to branch, or person to person?


Both. 

Only a gymnast can be both!

This is a popular term on TAM.

It refers to, from one partner to another person, having no interruption or interim period between relationships.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> Both.
> 
> Only a gymnast can be both!
> 
> ...


back in the day, i recall doing that. Been a long long time since.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> never heard "monkey branch" before. Does it mean leaping from branch to branch, or person to person?


What...?? Do you even read the threads on here...?? That's a favorite TAM expression, even I know what it means!! Lol!!


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> What...?? Do you even read the threads on here...?? That's a favorite TAM expression, even I know what it means!! Lol!!


Eh, guess I never noticed before?


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Eh, guess I never noticed before?


Actually, that's probably easy to do, because they are very specific topics with really long posts in them! Alot of the time, you aren't missing much...lol!!


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Actually, that's probably easy to do, because they are very specific topics with really long posts in them! Alot of the time, you aren't missing much...lol!!


How ya been?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> ah, horny guys on your list? LOL We don't judge. Whatever floats your boat.


No, still straight... lol...


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> How ya been?


Very good...happy all the time, of course!! Lol!


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> No, still straight... lol...


Ha! One never knows what future holds. Recall a guy hitting on me at a party


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Ha! One never knows what future holds. Recall a guy hitting on me at a party


I've had plenty of guys hitting me in my early twenties... but none of them was really attractive, or rich...


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I've had plenty of guys hitting me in my early twenties... but none of them was really attractive, or rich...


Yep. I was 25 or so. Guess he was 20 years older.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> never heard "monkey branch" before. Does it mean leaping from branch to branch, or person to person?


A monkey doesn’t release the branch she is holding until another branch is well held and determined to support her weight. Whereupon she can release the original branch whenever she likes. No leaping involved. She could fall and bust her a$$


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> A monkey doesn’t release the branch she is holding until another branch is well held and determined to support her weight. Whereupon she can release the original branch whenever she likes. No leaping involved. She could fall and bust her a$$


She (or HE) is afraid to take the risk because she's a COWARD!!


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> It is no secret, that monkey branching makes divorce all that much easier.
> 
> Especially, for one who is codependent.
> 
> ...


This

When I stop and think about it, practically all the guys I know that are currently divorced, "monkey branched"...while this is a description with a negative connotation, all of these guys were in dead marriages, no sex, no intimacy, etc, just didn't really leave because it wasn't horrible or abusive either...Lets face it, blowing up your life just to be alone isn't so great either...Most people want to be with someone else, even aside of the intimacy and sex, particularly if they have been deprived of that for many years..

Also, I think a lot of people believe that these people went and actively sought out another person...Not usually, it winds up being a case where a person is attracted and shows interest, then they finally crack...

And in most of these cases, once it is determined that the person sees the other person as a viable option, they bolt out of the bad/dead marriage...


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I've had plenty of guys hitting me in my early twenties... but none of them was really attractive, or rich...


As a teen I lived a couple doors down from a gay bar. I got hit one regularly starting around 15 years old. None were attractive and most smelled like piss.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> As a teen I lived a couple doors down from a gay bar. I got hit one regularly starting around 15 years old. None were attractive and most smelled like piss.


Not very tempting, I’m sure.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Not very tempting, I’m sure.


LOL, no, it sure wasn't. Made my skin crawl for so many reasons.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> LOL, no, it sure wasn't. Made my skin crawl for so many reasons.


Oh, I’m sure, especially at that age. The guy who hit on me … guess he was about 20 years older. i was 25.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> I completely understand this, but then how can you be married to him if he's like this either?
> 
> For me, if I don't have sexual desire for a man, I don't want a relationship with him at all. I want to be free to find the man I DO want to have lots of sex and a full, loving relationship with.


For the first 20 years we were like rabbits, we both changed, I wised up an realised I was putting up with his ****ty begviour or maybe I fell out of love with him more like. He had mid life crisis and ****ty behaviour grew exponentially.


----------



## Lolati11 (Nov 29, 2017)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...


Every relationship has a story . I never thought I would be one of those couples either ,and hear I am  . For me it was to support my husband during a stressful time , I didn’t want to pester him about sex .however it got to me , and now I am like :nope !! Enough is enough we either work on it or I am out .


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Lolati11 said:


> Every relationship has a story . I never thought I would be one of those couples either ,and hear I am  . For me it was to support my husband during a stressful time , I didn’t want to pester him about sex .however it got to me , and now I am like :nope !! Enough is enough we either work on it or I am out .


What does he say?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> What does he say?


That he has an headache? Or his period... oh, hold on...


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> That he has an headache? Or his period... oh, hold on...


“I’m tired.” Or “I hadn’t thought of that.” Maybe “can I give you a rain check?” Or “I’m not in the mood.”


----------



## Lolati11 (Nov 29, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> What does he say?


To not having sex : I am tired , I’ll work on doing a better job or my favorite line is : I am too old (59) . I put my foot down before and he made a doctors appointment to get checked . He never went , I can’t really recall what happened that prevented him from going .


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Lolati11 said:


> To not having sex : I am tired , I’ll work on doing a better job or my favorite line is : I am too old (59) . I put my foot down before and he made a doctors appointment to get checked . He never went , I can’t really recall what happened that prevented him from going .


What prevented him is him. He does not want to go. Afraid of hearing a bad diagnosis, he avoids doc.


----------



## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

I am almost 70 and still HD. My wife has always been LD; but, everything works fine once the motor starts running. A lot of folks on here and other forums place a big significance to sex. I never consciously thought about sex because I never experienced droughts of more than a week or so.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Kiki123 said:


> I can't get my head around how some couples go months or even years without sex. I've read stories complaining of no sex for over 5 years and yet they still remain married? How is that even possible.
> 
> What is the point in staying together? Regardless of how "great" your marriage is in other areas. If one has a need for sex and isnt getting it, how can the good things in a marriage make up for that?
> 
> ...





thunderchad said:


> I agree with this whole heartedly. After a few days I would be getting irritated and after a week or two we'd be having a serious discussion.
> 
> Without sex, you are not married. You are just friends or roommates.


A few days?????? Give me a break


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

CrapMan said:


> I am almost 70 and still HD. My wife has always been LD; but, everything works fine once the motor starts running. A lot of folks on here and other forums place a big significance to sex. I never consciously thought about sex because I never experienced droughts of more than a week or so.


Try no sex for 6 weeks or more.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> I guess twice a month is technically sexless...I stayed because the sex was good when we had it and I didn't want another man to raise my children. Simple.


Twice a month is not sexless. I would kill for that.


----------



## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

Okguy said:


> Try no sex for 6 weeks or more.


Okguy, that was my point. I never experienced a 2 or more week drought. Well, that is not entirely accurate. It was a few weeks after each of our sons were born at least for PIV. 4 or 5 weeks would be terrible let alone 6+ IMHO.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> Twice a month is not sexless. I would kill for that.


That you aren’t having that much sex, proves that you wouldn’t do that at all.

Perhaps you might try less tilting at windmills to no end, and do something actually useful about it. Or failing that, you could stop claiming that you would kill for it, when you most certainly wouldn’t.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Okguy said:


> Twice a month is not sexless. I would kill for that.


You've been here a long time complaining about lack of sex. Have you done anything about it?


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You've been here a long time complaining about lack of sex. Have you done anything about it?


Such as?


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> That you aren’t having that much sex, proves that you wouldn’t do that at all.
> 
> Perhaps you might try less tilting at windmills to no end, and do something actually useful about it. Or failing that, you could stop claiming that you would kill for it, when you most certainly wouldn’t.


What the hell does that mean?


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

CrapMan said:


> Okguy, that was my point. I never experienced a 2 or more week drought. Well, that is not entirely accurate. It was a few weeks after each of our sons were born at least for PIV. 4 or 5 weeks would be terrible let alone 6+ IMHO.


Well I am 70 and my wife is 71 so......


----------



## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

Okguy said:


> Well I am 70 and my wife is 71 so......


I am closer to 70 than 60 and my wife is 6 years younger. So...


----------



## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

Maybe some books on how to seduce your wife would help?


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

CrapMan said:


> Maybe some books on how to seduce your wife would help?


Been seducing her for 30 years....


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Okguy said:


> Such as?


I'm asking you, what have you done about it? It appears it isn't that big of a deal since you are still married, but what have you done to address it?


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

CrapMan said:


> I am closer to 70 than 60 and my wife is 6 years younger. So...





BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm asking you, what have you done about it? It appears it isn't that big of a deal since you are still married, but what have you done to address it?


I have had many frank discussions and arguments. Sex is great when we have it
..just too infrequent.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

I have a friend who hasn't had sex with his wife for over 4 years. For three years he tried everything that you are suppose to to rekindle the spark but nothing. Last year she told him that she doesn't have any sexual interest in him or anyone else. Her specifically mentioning "anyone else" is definitely a red flag. 
Anyway, I asked him how he deals with it. He told me that after their talk last year he lost any sexual attraction to her and put himself into the mindset that they are nothing more then friends/roommates/co-parenting business partners. Seems to work for them.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> As a teen I lived a couple doors down from a gay bar. I got hit one regularly starting around 15 years old. None were attractive and most smelled like piss.


Thank God for our accute sense of smell.

That odor might have been that residual, displaced smegma.

Yuck, thrice.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Numb26 said:


> I have a friend who hasn't had sex with his wife for over 4 years. For three years he tried everything that you are suppose to to rekindle the spark but nothing. Last year she told him that she doesn't have any sexual interest in him or anyone else. Her specifically mentioning "anyone else" is definitely a red flag.
> Anyway, I asked him how he deals with it. He told me that after their talk last year he lost any sexual attraction to her and put himself into the mindset that they are nothing more then friends/roommates/co-parenting business partners. Seems to work for them.


Feel sad for him. Needs a GF


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> I guess twice a month is technically sexless...I stayed because the sex was good when we had it and I didn't want another man to raise my children. Simple.


Twice a month is hardly sexless


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> That’s nuts.
> 
> I’ve been married twice and with both my ex-wife and wife through all pregnancies and as quickly as possible afterwards we kept sharing lots of sex.
> 
> What baffles me is you sucking that up? Since there’s no way I would settle for that nonsense, without dumping who I’m with and getting sex elsewhere.


So every time you don't get enough sex you dump her?


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Okguy said:


> Twice a month is hardly sexless


Its darn close.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Its darn close.


Count your blessings buddy


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Was twice a month five years ago. Now twice a week. Not sure why


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Okguy said:


> So every time you don't get enough sex you dump her?


If you aren't satisfied with your marriage, which includes sex, you have to decide if the issue is enough to call an end to the marriage. If sex is truly important to you, vital to your emotional needs and connection to your spouse, then it would be a really ****ty life to live without it.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Was twice a month five years ago. Now twice a week. Not sure why


You don't have any clue about what changed? Nothing you did?


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If you aren't satisfied with your marriage, which includes sex, you have to decide if the issue is enough to call an end to the marriage. If sex is truly important to you, vital to your emotional needs and connection to your spouse, then it would be a really ****ty life to live without it.


But sex can stop for many reasons....I guess you just leave then


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Okguy said:


> But sex can stop for many reasons....I guess you just leave then


If it is due to a medical reason or something making it physically impossible that is a different story. If it is simply a choice to constantly reject sexual advances from your partner, that is selfish, and could be a reason to leave. You have to weigh the situation as a whole. No interest in sex with your spouse, just because, means you have lost your attraction for some reason. It is an indication of some other issue(s) in the marriage. Think about this. Would it be justified for a spouse to leave if their partner just decided they don't want to work anymore and contribute to the household income? Or that they were no longer going to provide any emotional support? etc.

If your spouse is expecting/demanding that you remain in a monogamous relationship with them, then they have an obligation to meet your sexual needs. At the very least they need to meet at some middle ground. It makes no sense that 1 person in the marriage gets to make a decision about a major component of the marriage without considering the other spouse. To me that is grounds for divorce.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If it is due to a medical reason or something making it physically impossible that is a different story. If it is simply a choice to constantly reject sexual advances from your partner, that is selfish, and could be a reason to leave. You have to weigh the situation as a whole. No interest in sex with your spouse, just because, means you have lost your attraction for some reason. It is an indication of some other issue(s) in the marriage. Think about this. Would it be justified for a spouse to leave if their partner just decided they don't want to work anymore and contribute to the household income? Or that they were no longer going to provide any emotional support? etc.
> 
> If your spouse is expecting/demanding that you remain in a monogamous relationship with them, then they have an obligation to meet your sexual needs. At the very least they need to meet at some middle ground. It makes no sense that 1 person in the marriage gets to make a decision about a major component of the marriage without considering the other spouse. To me that is grounds for divorce.


I guess one has to decide if infrequent sex is important enough to end a marriage that in all other areas is happy and loving. This becomes even more important as we are both 70.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Okguy said:


> But sex can stop for many reasons....I guess you just leave then


That might not solve the "problem" at all. While causing a myriad of other problems. There are several regular posters who have gone through several marriages and intimacy was a problem with every single one. So what/who is the common element to the "problem". Where ever we go, we are always there. 

Yes, maybe a split is appropriate in some, maybe most cases. But the individual circumstances are paramount to making such a massive decision.

And especially as a person ages, just because the intimacy decreases or even disappears, there are a lot of other important aspects to a relationship. Just for example, wife and I are nearing eighty, and still blessed with robust romantic life. But if it were to end tomorrow, for any reason, are we just going to leave one another? After nearly 60 years together? Kids, grandkids, great grandkids, happy memories? H3ll no!


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If it is due to a medical reason or something making it physically impossible that is a different story. If it is simply a choice to constantly reject sexual advances from your partner, that is selfish, and could be a reason to leave. You have to weigh the situation as a whole. No interest in sex with your spouse, just because, means you have lost your attraction for some reason. It is an indication of some other issue(s) in the marriage. Think about this. Would it be justified for a spouse to leave if their partner just decided they don't want to work anymore and contribute to the household income? Or that they were no longer going to provide any emotional support? etc.
> 
> If your spouse is expecting/demanding that you remain in a monogamous relationship with them, then they have an obligation to meet your sexual needs. At the very least they need to meet at some middle ground. It makes no sense that 1 person in the marriage gets to make a decision about a major component of the marriage without considering the other spouse. To me that is grounds for divorce.





Okguy said:


> I guess one has to decide if infrequent sex is important enough to end a marriage that in all other areas is happy and loving. This becomes even more important as we are both 70.


The thing with "just leaving" is not so simple..not to state the obvious...

It just seems like it puts the one wanting in a proverbial no win....I know if I was 70 + years old and in this situation, unless the woman was an absolute beast, id just do my thing until I am pushing daisies...


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Rus47 said:


> That might not solve the "problem" at all. While causing a myriad of other problems. There are several regular posters who have gone through several marriages and intimacy was a problem with every single one. So what/who is the common element to the "problem". Where ever we go, we are always there.
> 
> Yes, maybe a split is appropriate in some, maybe most cases. But the individual circumstances are paramount to making such a massive decision.
> 
> And especially as a person ages, just because the intimacy decreases or even disappears, there are a lot of other important aspects to a relationship. Just for example, wife and I are nearing eighty, and still blessed with robust romantic life. But if it were to end tomorrow, for any reason, are we just going to leave one another? After nearly 60 years together? Kids, grandkids, great grandkids, happy memories? H3ll no!


Exactly


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

hamadryad said:


> The thing with "just leaving" is not so simple..not to state the obvious...
> 
> It just seems like it puts the one wanting in a proverbial no win....I know if I was 70 + years old and in this situation, unless the woman was an absolute beast, id just do my thing until I am pushing daisies...


Beast?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> So every time you don't get enough sex you dump her?


Throughout all of my previous ongoing sexual relationships and my current ongoing sexual relationship. I have always shared a splendidly varied, high frequency sex life. So there hasn’t been a single time, let alone an every time.

That said unless who I was with was okay, with my meeting sexual shortfalls elsewhere. I would most certainly dump them, if they unilaterally decided to stop sharing enough sex with me, or otherwise turned the sex tap off altogether.

At the end of the day, though there are many people who settle for limited sex or no sex, within a nominally sexual relationship. I am not inclined to settle for that kind of nonsense.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Okguy said:


> Beast?


Meaning a mean spirited, angry, lazy, nagging, miserable type of woman...


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

hamadryad said:


> Meaning a mean spirited, angry, lazy, nagging, miserable type of woman...


No. She is very loving.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I am not going to get into the rights and wrongs of infidelity, and don't want to start that argument...

I have a buddy of mine who is otherwise happily married and successful, but his wife hung up the sex when she was in her mid 40's and it was probably a lot winding down and duty sex before that....

He simply decided to get a high priced call girl that he meets a couple of times a month...It's gone on for so long now I think he has had 2 different ones.. The one he showed me was drop dead gorgeous...He isn't a terrible looking guy and is in pretty good shape...He figured that even though he takes good care of her($), its costing him WAY less than a full blown divorce would cost him, and he didn't see the dating scene at almost 60 as something to look forward to...

He sees it more like filling the void that his wife decided to deny ....I think he likes the fact that there is no drama, like he would have if he took on a mistress...He says he thinks she knows about the call girl, but doesn't care as long as he keeps it on the down low..

I don't say this is what I would do or recommend(im too cheap, anyway...lol). but seriously, I don't know if I could just live my life angry and resentful all the time...You only get one chance at this life...I would have to do something about it,,,,,


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Throughout all of my previous ongoing sexual relationships and my current ongoing sexual relationship. I have always shared a splendidly varied, high frequency sex life. So there hasn’t been a single time, let alone an every time.
> 
> That said unless who I was with was okay, with my meeting sexual shortfalls elsewhere. I would most certainly dump them, if they unilaterally decided to stop sharing enough sex with me, or otherwise turned the sex tap off altogether.
> 
> At the end of the day, though there are many people who settle for limited sex or no sex, within a nominally sexual relationship. I am not inclined to settle for that kind of nonsense.


I notice you classify your relationships as sexual relationships. So when the sex is gone so are you apparently.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

hamadryad said:


> I am not going to get into the rights and wrongs of infidelity, and don't want to start that argument...
> 
> I have a buddy of mine who is otherwise happily married and successful, but his wife hung up the sex when she was in her mid 40's and it was probably a lot winding down and duty sex before that....
> 
> ...


Not to mention risky


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Okguy said:


> Not to mention risky



*Life is risky,* bud.....You took a risk when you married your wife....


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

hamadryad said:


> *Life is risky,* bud.....You took a risk when you married your wife....


Not the same at all buddy


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Okguy said:


> I guess one has to decide if infrequent sex is important enough to end a marriage that in all other areas is happy and loving. This becomes even more important as we are both 70.


That is absolutely true. It is no different than any other aspect of a marriage. If a spouse is a complete slob and never cleans up after themselves. You can't force them to clean up after themselves, so you have to decide to live with it or not. And back to my working example. If your spouse decided they just aren't going to work anymore, you can't force them too. You may decide that everything else about them and the marriage is good and you put up with it. Sex is exactly the same way. 

I don't understand why some people get incredulous at the idea that lack of sex is grounds for divorce. Especially since, in most cases, you can't seek it elsewhere. If my wife decided she is no longer going to cook a single meal ever again, or only on the 2nd Friday of each month, if she doesn't have a headache, then she has no right to complain about what I make or if I decide to get takeout every night. I need that food and I'm going to get it. Totally different story if there is a physical limitation, but I would still expect the spouse with the physical limitation to do whatever is physically possible. If my penis no longer functioned I would still do anything my wife wanted to keep her sexually satisfied.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Personal said:


> Throughout all of my previous ongoing sexual relationships and my current ongoing sexual relationship. I have always shared a splendidly varied, high frequency sex life. So there hasn’t been a single time, let alone an every time.
> 
> That said unless who I was with was okay, with my meeting sexual shortfalls elsewhere. I would most certainly dump them, if they unilaterally decided to stop sharing enough sex with me, or otherwise turned the sex tap off altogether.
> 
> At the end of the day, though there are many people who settle for limited sex or no sex, within a nominally sexual relationship. I am not inclined to settle for that kind of nonsense.


I don’t think we really know what we would do until faced with the actual situation.

My wife is under constant concern about BC since a year ago. One of the treatments are hormone suppressants. If she should have a return malignancy, those would very likely be prescribed for 5 years at least. Her libido would end, she would dry up everywhere. So intimacy would end. I am with her in the good times and the tough times no matter what. We would be focused on her survival and enjoy whatever time remains for us to be together. Sex takes a back seat (at least for me). We have been happy together nearing 6 decades.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is absolutely true. It is no different than any other aspect of a marriage. If a spouse is a complete slob and never cleans up after themselves. You can't force them to clean up after themselves, so you have to decide to live with it or not. And back to my working example. If your spouse decided they just aren't going to work anymore, you can't force them too. You may decide that everything else about them and the marriage is good and you put up with it. Sex is exactly the same way.
> 
> I don't understand why some people get incredulous at the idea that lack of sex is grounds for divorce. Especially since, in most cases, you can't seek it elsewhere. If my wife decided she is no longer going to cook a single meal ever again, or only on the 2nd Friday of each month, if she doesn't have a headache, then she has no right to complain about what I make or if I decide to get takeout every night. I need that food and I'm going to get it. Totally different story if there is a physical limitation, but I would still expect the spouse with the physical limitation to do whatever is physically possible. If my penis no longer functioned I would still do anything my wife wanted to keep her sexually satisfied.


You make some valid points but infrequent sex is a bigger problem in your younger years. When you are 70 and have been in love for 30 years it is not ideal but is much more acceptable.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Rus47 said:


> I don’t think we really know what we would do until faced with the actual situation.
> 
> My wife is under constant concern about BC since a year ago. One of the treatments are hormone suppressants. If she should have a return malignancy, those would very likely be prescribed for 5 years at least. Her libido would end, she would dry up everywhere. So intimacy would end. I am with her in the good times and the tough times no matter what. We would be focused on her survival and enjoy whatever time remains for us to be together. Sex takes a back seat (at least for me). We have been happy together nearing 6 decades.


Totally agree. Love conquers all.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Okguy said:


> You make some valid points but infrequent sex is a bigger problem in your younger years. When you are 70 and have been in love for 30 years it is not ideal but is much more acceptable.


I completely understand and in large part I agree. Each individual needs to decide where they draw the line and that line will likely move over time and with certain circumstances. I'm only 51, but I've been with my wife 35 years, married almost 33. I completely understand that as we get older there are many things that could impact our sex life. We have sex about 4 times a week on average and engage in some sort of intimate contact, that most people would still call sex, pretty much every single day. It would be very out of character for my wife to turn off sex without any physical limitations. It would tell me that maybe my marriage isn't as strong and healthy as I thought it was. And no, I just don't want to, isn't a valid excuse over the long term. That would be a trigger for me to figure out what has gone wrong in our relationship.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I completely understand and in large part I agree. Each individual needs to decide where they draw the line and that line will likely move over time and with certain circumstances. I'm only 51, but I've been with my wife 35 years, married almost 33. I completely understand that as we get older there are many things that could impact our sex life. We have sex about 4 times a week on average and engage in some sort of intimate contact, that most people would still call sex, pretty much every single day. It would be very out of character for my wife to turn off sex without any physical limitations. It would tell me that maybe my marriage isn't as strong and healthy as I thought it was. And no, I just don't want to, isn't a valid excuse over the long term. That would be a trigger for me to figure out what has gone wrong in our relationship.


Be prepared for it to happen 
We used to have that much sex too when younger.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Okguy said:


> Be prepared for it to happen
> We used to have that much sex too when younger.


We do so many varied things that are incredibly intimate I'm not worried.

Is there a reason you don't engage in sex more often?


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Okguy said:


> Be prepared for it to happen
> We used to have that much sex too when younger.


We are having more than that now nesrer 80 than 70. Age is just a number


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Rus47 said:


> We are having more than that now nesrer 80 than 70. Age is just a number


Good for you


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Seems like we both made an effort to increase frequency. And it's been going up ever since the low of 26 times in 2017. I know maybe three, four years ago, she suggested a "Sunday guarantee." And we've stuck to that unless someone is sick.

I noticed a big increase when the pandemic hit in 2020. We were at home more, were not going out as much. Since then, there was more in 2021 and this year we are on pace for over 100. First time in years. We have our moments - like any couple - when we argue and can't stand each other, but we do stay committed to her Sunday guarantee idea.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Seems like we both made an effort to increase frequency. And it's been going up ever since the low of 26 times in 2017. I know maybe three, four years ago, she suggested a "Sunday guarantee." And we've stuck to that unless someone is sick.
> 
> I noticed a big increase when the pandemic hit in 2020. We were at home more, were not going out as much. Since then, there was more in 2021 and this year we are on pace for over 100. First time in years. We have our moments - like any couple - when we argue and can't stand each other, but we do stay committed to her Sunday guarantee idea.


Ages?


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Okguy said:


> Ages?


me 62, she 63


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Longtime Hubby said:


> me 62, she 63


That pretty amazing actually


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Okguy said:


> That pretty amazing actually


Thanks. Like I said, not sure about the "why" but do know it's a very good change of pace. Amazing? Guess so, given our ages. Kind of a late revival, if you will. It's not perfect. I still have to initiate like 99.9 percent of the time. But it's better


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> I notice you classify your relationships as sexual relationships. So when the sex is gone so are you apparently.


I classify sexual relationships as sexual relationships. Just like I classify non-sexual relationships as non-sexual relationships.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> I classify sexual relationships as sexual relationships. Just like I classify non-sexual relationships as non-sexual relationships.


But once the sex goes you are gone....


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> I don’t think we really know what we would do until faced with the actual situation.


You may not know what you will do in that situation. Yet I am not like that.

From my first sexual relationship, I always knew that if one of my sexual partners cheated on me and I found out, I would end my sexual relationship with them. And as it turns out, when my ex-wife confessed her sexual infidelity, I ended our marital relationship as a consequence.

Likewise in the past I have dumped plenty of women, who I was in sexual relationships with, whenever I became bored with them or found out I didn't like something about the relationship we shared. So I have never had any hesitation in ending any sexual relationships (including one marriage) at all.

If I say I am going to do something I do it, if I say I am not going to do something I won't do it. If I don't know if I will do something I will say I don't know if I will do it. Ever since I was a young child I have always been unyielding in that way. Even to the point that as a young child, when I was being choked and being smacked about my head and in fear that I was going to die, I still wouldn't give in and do what my parents wanted me to do at that time.



> My wife is under constant concern about BC since a year ago. One of the treatments are hormone suppressants. If she should have a return malignancy, those would very likely be prescribed for 5 years at least. Her libido would end, she would dry up everywhere. So intimacy would end. I am with her in the good times and the tough times no matter what. We would be focused on her survival and enjoy whatever time remains for us to be together. Sex takes a back seat (at least for me). We have been happy together nearing 6 decades.


If I get sick and if it will be for a long time and I cannot/will not share plenty of sex with my wife (and she wants to stay with me), she is free to seek sex elsewhere with others to meet that shortfall, or to end our marriage if that is what she wants. In the same way that if my wife will be sick for a long time and she cannot/will not share plenty of sex with me (and I want to stay with her), I will seek to meet that sexual shortfall with others elsewhere, or end our marriage to seek sex with others elsewhere.

On the other hand if either of us unilaterally pulls the plug on sharing any sex at all. Our marriage would be toast, since I think there's no point in maintaining a what is supposed to be a sexual relationship, if it devolves into a sexless relationship.

Neither of us expect each other to give up on sharing sex with someone, when the other can't or won't share sex very often or at all. Also I think it's perfectly fine for you and your wife to not feel the same way about it, and to be willing give up sex for the other, yet that isn't us.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> But once the sex goes you are gone....


Yes absolutely, if there is no sex shared at all. Since there's no point sustaining the charade of maintaining what is supposed to be a sexual relationship, without sharing some sex with ones nominal sexual partner. 

Did you have trouble with comprehension at school? Which is okay if you did. Since if that is the case, I will try to answer your questions in a different way, so that it will hopefully make it easier for you to understand what I am writing.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Yes absolutely, if there is no sex shared at all. Since there's no point sustaining the charade of maintaining what is supposed to be a sexual relationship, without sharing some sex with ones nominal sexual partner.
> 
> Did you have trouble with comprehension at school? Which is okay if you did. Since if that is the case, I will try to answer your questions in a different way, so that it will hopefully make it easier for you to understand what I am writing.


Sarcasm is unbecoming


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> You sound like a selfish bastard.


You sound like a guy who has chosen to settle for little to no sex through multiple decades on end. Yet strangely whines about choosing celibacy, instead of honestly embracing your own choice to be celibate, as a choice that is entirely your own.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> You sound like a guy who has chosen to settle for little to no sex through multiple decades on end. Yet strangely whines about choosing celibacy, instead of honestly embracing your own choice to be celibate, as a choice that is entirely your own.


I am choosing to remain in a loving relationship for over 30 years. Sex could be more frequent yes but I am not a selfish bastard like you.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> Sarcasm is unbecoming


There was no sarcasm, you genuinely keep questioning what I have written. To the point I wondered if you are having trouble understanding it, so that I would try to answer your questions in a better way for you.

That said given your response, comprehension probably isn't an issue. So I guess you're just being boring.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> I am choosing to remain in a loving relationship for over 30 years. Sex could be more frequent yes but I am not a selfish bastard like you.


I'm 26 years and almost 6 months into a loving relationship with my wife, and we've been ****ing each other in all sorts of delightful ways, with tremendous sustained frequency ever since our 3rd date. Which isn't a surprise, since we're both sexy like that.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> I'm 26 years and almost 6 months into a loving relationship with my wife, and we've been ****ing each other in all sorts of delightful ways, with tremendous sustained frequency ever since our 3rd date. Which isn't a surprise, since we're both sexy like that.


Until it stops


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> Until it stops


Yep.

That's kind of how it works.

Of which I know one set of my grandparents, still shared sex with each other into their late 90s when they died.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Yep.
> 
> That's kind of how it works.
> 
> Of which I know one set of my grandparents, still shared sex with each other into their late 90s when they died.


And when it does u leave


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

I'm thinking someone is about to get the boot!


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> And when it does u leave


I don't know why you feel compelled to keep asking the same thing, since the answer remains the same.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> I don't know why you feel compelled to keep asking the same thing, since the answer remains the same.





Personal said:


> I don't know why you feel compelled to keep asking the same thing, since the answer remains the same.





Personal said:


> I don't know why you feel compelled to keep asking the same thing, since the answer remains the same.


It was a statement of fact....sad as it is


----------



## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

What time is it now?


----------



## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Sex is important. However, there are sometimes circumstances which restrict or prevent that. I had that situation for about 10 years, 6.5 without, due to medical condition.

This may sound strange to some, but this drought made me realize how much I loved my wife. There were strains, but she has basically expressed the same thing. We did maintain intimacy, but I was unable to perform and had no libido. 

Now, our sex life has been resurrected and it has become more intimate. I married her, not her vagina. Sex is not the end all.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> It was a statement of fact....sad as it is


Yes, then I concur it is a statement of fact.



Okguy said:


> Twice a month is not sexless. I would kill for that.


Unlike the above, which isn't a statement of fact. Since (as I called you out on this earlier) you wouldn't kill to get sex at even twice a month.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

UAArchangel said:


> What time is it now?


It is 181207L, where I am right now.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Yes, then I concur it is a statement of fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike the above, which isn't a statement of fact. Since (as I called you out on this earlier) you wouldn't kill to get sex at even twice a month.


It was a fugure of speech 
I also wouldn't leave someone I love because I wasn't getting enough sex.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Yes, then I concur it is a statement of fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike the above, which isn't a statement of fact. Since (as I called you out on this earlier) you wouldn't kill to get sex at even twice a month.


You have no right to call anyone out on anything.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> It was a fugure of speech
> I also wouldn't leave someone I love because I wasn't getting enough sex.


Then why pretend that you want more sex, instead of simply owning your choices that you are happy to choose less sex?


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Then why pretend that you want more sex, instead of simply owning your choices that you are happy to choose less sex?


Yes I want more sex but I am not willing to end my marriage to get it. No guarantee it won't happen in future relationships. It has to be about more than sex.


----------



## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Okguy said:


> Yes I want more sex but I am not willing to end my marriage to get it. No guarantee it won't happen in future relationships. It has to be about more than sex.


^^^^THIS^^^^


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

BootsAndJeans said:


> ^^^^THIS^^^^


Thank you.


----------



## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

Okguy said:


> Yes I want more sex but I am not willing to end my marriage to get it. No guarantee it won't happen in future relationships. It has to be about more than sex.


Can I suggest maybe some marriage counselling, by a counselor that is qualified to teach spouses how to serve each other?
I think if your wife can be made to understand your needs, and you hers, that might help.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

UAArchangel said:


> Can I suggest maybe some marriage counselling, by a counselor that is qualified to teach spouses how to serve each other?
> I think if your wife can be made to understand your needs, and you hers, that might help.


Thank you but believe me she understands my needs and from her perspective is doing her best. Is it enough for me,? No but as we are both 70 it is unlikely to change. It would take more than infrequent sex for me to leave someone I have loved for 30 years.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> You have no right to call anyone out on anything.












*WOOF!*


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> *WOOF!*


Self portrait


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> Yes I want more sex but I am not willing to end my marriage to get it. No guarantee it won't happen in future relationships. It has to be about more than sex.


Then you evidently want other things more than you want more sex. So you are choosing to share less sex, which is entirely your choice to make.

Given your choices, complaining about not having much sex, when you are choosing exactly that is poor form old boy.

That said we all know people who complain about things to no end, yet do nothing about it. And for some, they need look no further than their own mirror to find them.

At the end of the day it looks like you don't think, that sharing sex is an essential foundational pillar of marriage. So you act accordingly and settle for a sexless marriage. Which is perfectly fine by the way, since there's nothing wrong with people choosing to sustain sexless marriages, if that's what they want.

On the other hand my wife and I, do think that sharing sex is an essential foundational pillar of marriage. So we act accordingly and share lots of sex in our marriage.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> Self portrait


A fellow traveller.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Then you evidently want other things more than you want more sex. So you are choosing to share less sex, which is entirely your choice to make. Given that, complaining about not having much sex, when you are choosing exactly that is is poor form old boy.
> 
> That said we all know people who complain about things to no end, yet do nothing about it. And for some, they need look no further than their own mirror.
> 
> ...


You have no clue what I am saying. Try reading what I said.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> You have no clue what I am saying. Try reading what I said.


You said the following. So let's break it down.



Okguy said:


> Yes I want more sex but I am not willing to end my marriage to get it.





> Yes I want more sex


Okay, right up until the following.



> but I am not willing to end my marriage to get it.


Which may or may not be a problem.

Albeit given your background in not getting sex elsewhere, and settling for less. There is a contradiction inherent in your thinking.

In that you want more, yet you have years behind you of settling for less despite your wants. Now I don't know about you, but I don't believe what people are saying, when their actions don't mach their words.

So given that your actions (you settle for a sexless marriage) don't match your words (you want more sex). I am right not to believe you.

On the other hand it would be perfectly dandy for you to just start sharing sex with others, to meet the shortfall of what you want, if that is what you want. Via opening up your marriage ethically or unethically if you decide to cheat on your wife.

Yet unless you are getting sex elsewhere or at the very least trying to, I am not convinced that wanting more sex is really important to you at all.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> You said the following. So let's break it down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So your solution is to get more sex by any means necessary. Typical selfish response. Typical of you.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> So your solution is to get more sex by any means necessary. Typical selfish response. Typical of you.


Not at all, and I certainly wouldn't kill for it either (unlike your claim). Nor would I rape someone or coerce them into sex or anything else that is unethical either. For me the sharing of sex ought to be an activity, that is only undertaken with informed consent, and never because of a perceived obligation either.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Not at all, and I certainly wouldn't kill for it either (unlike your claim). Nor would I rape someone or coerce them into sex or anything else that is unethical either. For me the sharing of sex ought to be an activity, that is only undertaken with informed consent, and never because of a perceived obligation either.


Figure of speech buddy. Reading is fundamental.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> You said the following. So let's break it down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More sex is important but as I said before a loving relationship is about more than just sex.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> Reading is fundamental.


Au contraire, looking at the pictures is so much more.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Au contraire, looking at the pictures is so much more.


Wrong....read and understand


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> More sex is important


If you are claiming this about you, colour me sceptical.



> but as I said before a loving relationship is about more than just sex.


That said, I agree with you on this.

For example I have loving relationships with some of my platonic friends, and some of my relatives as well. Yet I don't share sex with any of them, and I don't want to either. So obviously loving relationships are about more than just sex.

On the other hand I share plenty of sex with my wife, because we share a sexual relationship with each other.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Do you know who says "sex isn't important in a relationship"?

People who aren't having sex.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> If you are claiming this about you, colour me sceptical.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was only referring to a loving relationship within marriage....reading in fundamental.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Numb26 said:


> Do you know who says "sex isn't important in a relationship"?
> 
> People who aren't having sex.


No one said that. I said there are more important things than sex. Reading is fundamental.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> I was only referring to a loving relationship within marriage....reading in fundamental.


Look I think it's awesome, that you are now finally owning your desire to share a sexless marriage, it must be quite cathartic for you.

That said since I think marriages that I'm in, ought to be sexual relationships. I will use your experience as a lesson in what not to do. So thank-you for showing me what to avoid.

🍻


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Personal said:


> Look I think it's awesome, that you are now finally owning your desire to share a sexless marriage, it must be quite cathartic for you.
> 
> That said since I think marriages that I'm in, ought to be sexual relationships. I will use your experience as a lesson in what not to do. So thank-you for showing me what to avoid.
> 
> 🍻


I never said that. Are you dyslexic?


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Okguy said:


> I never said that. Are you dyslexic?





Personal said:


> Look I think it's awesome, that you are now finally owning your desire to share a sexless marriage, it must be quite cathartic for you.
> 
> That said since I think marriages that I'm in, ought to be sexual relationships. I will use your experience as a lesson in what not to do. So thank-you for showing me what to avoid.
> 
> 🍻


I said I would like more sex but not willing to leave my marriage for it. 

Hope you are happy in your continuous sexual quest in multiple marriages.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Okguy said:


> Hope you are happy in your continuous sexual quest in multiple marriages.


Of course I'm happy. What is there not to enjoy about, sharing lots of great sex with ones sexual partner/s?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Okguy said:


> You have no clue what I am saying. Try reading what I said.


It's really you're stating opposing positions as being extremely important to you but actions and words reflect one position indeed isn't that important. 

If phrased differently, and correctly you have a very very common problem. 

The old adage of once one can accurately define a problem in one or two sentences, options for solutions come easier really applies here.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Okguy said:


> I am choosing to remain in a loving relationship for over 30 years. Sex could be more frequent yes but I am not a selfish bastard like you.


I get it, you are superior. That is your point in all this?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Okguy said:


> It was a fugure of speech
> I also wouldn't leave someone I love because I wasn't getting enough sex.


Would you leave if she wasn't providing any emotional connection?
Would you leave if she decided housework was only to be done by you while she watches TV?
Would you leave if she only had sex with you once a month but masturbated 3 times a week?
Would you leave if she yelled, screamed and called you names every time she got angry?
Would you leave if she cheated?

Everyone has their lines in the sand, yours just isn't sex. Who are you to judge what is and isn't a valid reason to leave a relationship?


----------



## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Looking at this in another perspective.
If there is a couple who have been married for many years, both in their 50s, 60s or even 70s, built a home raised children together and their lives revolve around each other.
Then one of the partners goes completely off sex leaving the other partner high and dry so to speak.
It`s not just the sex that dries up but also the intimacy which goes with it.
It`s not easy for a middle aged or older wife or husband to pack up walk away and start afresh when the only alternative is to live alone and leave all they have achieved as a married person behind.
So as regards the question, how can married couples go so long without sex? it can work if both partners have a mutual understanding and OK with that, but if that becomes one sided then it`s sad for the partner who is still sexually active and is what I describe as, Hobsons choice, taking what is available or nothing at all.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> Looking at this in another perspective.
> If there is a couple who have been married for many years, both in their 50s, 60s or even 70s, built a home raised children together and their lives revolve around each other.
> Then one of the partners goes completely off sex leaving the other partner high and dry so to speak.
> It`s not just the sex that dries up but also the intimacy which goes with it.
> ...


Very good points. 

I don't think I've ever heard a dead bedroom or very low sex story where the intimacy and emotional connection remained solid. Most of these stories where one spouse simply doesn't want sex anymore is accompanied by a lack of any physical connection at all. That seems be caused by them either having no desire or attraction for their spouse, or they complain that any physical contact is interpreted as an opening for sex. Which, in a healthy marriage it usually does mean that, IMO. 

The bolded sentence is what makes this kind of situation so sad. You've partnered with this person for the majority of your life and they take away the physical intimacy and sexual connection with little regard for their dedicated partner. They unilaterally decide that something you place a very high value on is no longer important to them, so it is off the table. To be clear, I'm only talking about people that simply decide they don't want to do it anymore, not those with some physical limitation imposed on them. And I don't consider menopause or other hormonal issues a physical limitation. Even ED in many cases isn't a physical limitation. There are ways to work around or with those issues. A good and caring spouse will always make an effort to provide what their partner needs. Especially if it something they have agreed that can only be supplied by them.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Would you leave if she wasn't providing any emotional connection?
> Would you leave if she decided housework was only to be done by you while she watches TV?
> Would you leave if she only had sex with you once a month but masturbated 3 times a week?
> Would you leave if she yelled, screamed and called you names every time she got angry?
> ...


I read @Okguy to say he didn't care to leave his wife of many years just because the sex was less frequent than he desired. He is older, married a long time, and they are still intimate. None of the other issues you listed. I am very close to his viewpoint. 

Wife and I have none of the issues mentioned. Today our intimacy is very robust IMO. We are with one another EVERY afternoon without fail. And four mornings of every week. As I said before, if that were to end because of illness I will not seek solace elsewhere of leave my wife who have been together with since HS. 

@Personal stated he would absolutely require a hall pass to meet his needs and if that wasn't forthcoming, he would hit the exits. Health, age, nothing else as a qualifier, Knows what he would do should the situation arise decades from now.

So, different people with different *opinions. *And different ways of how they choose to live their lives. IMO, neither position is invalid just because someone else thinks so. We are all free to live our lives as we fit. Its a little like opposite sides of the political divide throwing verbal grenades at one another. A waste of time.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I read @Okguy to say he didn't care to leave his wife of many years just because the sex was less frequent than he desired. He is older, married a long time, and they are still intimate. None of the other issues you listed. I am very close to his viewpoint.
> 
> Wife and I have none of the issues mentioned. Today our intimacy is very robust IMO. We are with one another EVERY afternoon without fail. And four mornings of every week. As I said before, if that were to end because of illness I will not seek solace elsewhere of leave my wife who have been together with since HS.
> 
> ...


What I was getting at with that issue list was to say that there is likely some issue or combination of issues that would make him walk away from the marriage. Everyone has a line somewhere. In his case it doesn't happen to be less sex than he desires. For someone else it may be a deal breaker. 

I agree with you that over time your lines in the sand are very likely to move or even disappear depending on the situation.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I agree with you that over time your lines in the sand are very likely to move or even disappear depending on the situation.


Indeed. Suppose when my wife encountered menopause with the night sweats, mood swings, irritability, etc that she had just told me ( as a coworker's wife told him ), "I am done with sex! Leave me alone!". Yes, that would have been a hard line in the sand. Instead, her symptoms never interfered with intimacy. She realized and said as much that "my hormones are fouled up, I need a different gyno." 

Or, to put the shoe on my own foot, what if when I first had a bout with ED I just told her "Guess our intimacy is over. Sorry". I told her "my hormones are messed up, I need to get a different urologist". 

We have both always WANTED to be with one another, so we did our very best to not allow anything to block that. Not having kids, not having an argument about money, not major health problems.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Very good points.
> 
> I don't think I've ever heard a dead bedroom or very low sex story where the intimacy and emotional connection remained solid. Most of these stories where one spouse simply doesn't want sex anymore is accompanied by a lack of any physical connection at all. That seems be caused by them either having no desire or attraction for their spouse, or they complain that any physical contact is interpreted as an opening for sex. Which, in a healthy marriage it usually does mean that, IMO.
> 
> The bolded sentence is what makes this kind of situation so sad. You've partnered with this person for the majority of your life and they take away the physical intimacy and sexual connection with little regard for their dedicated partner. They unilaterally decide that something you place a very high value on is no longer important to them, so it is off the table. To be clear, I'm only talking about people that simply decide they don't want to do it anymore, not those with some physical limitation imposed on them. And I don't consider menopause or other hormonal issues a physical limitation. Even ED in many cases isn't a physical limitation. There are ways to work around or with those issues. A good and caring spouse will always make an effort to provide what their partner needs. Especially if it something they have agreed that can only be supplied by them.


This is exactly my marriage. Or it was, since we don’t have one any more.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> This is exactly my marriage. Or it was, since we don’t have one any more.


Sad


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> This is exactly my marriage. Or it was, since we don’t have one any more.


So, are you now officially divorced or just separated. If the former, do you plan on getting back into the saddle or are you done with women?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> So, are you now officially divorced or just separated. If the former, do you plan on getting back into the saddle or are you done with women?


Never give up women. 😉


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> So, are you now officially divorced or just separated. If the former, do you plan on getting back into the saddle or are you done with women?


We are separated de facto, but nothing is official. Just waiting to see where life takes us. Youngest will graduate next year, then we'll decide if we want to sell the properties. I might even move back to my own country. Dating? No idea. Definitely not doing the online thing... if it happens, it happens...


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Personal said:


> When Are Women Most Likely to Be Promiscuous?
> 
> 
> It was a moment that smashed assumptions with the force of a wrecking ball. She approached the sexy older male who seemed to arrive from out of...
> ...


But here was clear evidence that females would actively engage in “adulterous solicitations” with males from other societies. As Hrdy revealed to a scandalized scientific community, *the genetic benefits that came from seeking extra-pair matings—while maintaining the support of an existing partner—meant that evolution could favor females who choose to cheat.

More than 30 years of subsequent research has confirmed Hrdy’s findings and expanded on them to reveal that females in many primate species, humans included, engage in a diversity of sexual strategies to enhance their overall reproductive success. * For example, in saddle-backed tamarins, females will solicit sex from multiple males who will each help to care for her offspring.* Female mouse lemurs will mate with up to seven males during a single night. Capuchin monkeys will seek out mating opportunities in the early stages of their pregnancy, presumably to confuse males about paternity. And bonobo females will have sex with everybody at pretty much any time they feel like it.

In the latest addition, Brooke Scelza, a human behavioral ecologist at the University of California–Los Angeles, contends in Evolutionary Anthropology that *not only do human females seek out multiple sexual partners as an evolutionary strategy, they opportunistically shift that strategy depending on the environmental context (more on that below). In other words, female sexuality is not so much blindly promiscuous as it is pragmatic.*

The village networks in the Omuhonga basin of northwestern Namibia would prove such ideas about female agency wrong. It was here, surrounded by giant acacia trees, that anthropologist Brooke Scelza interviewed married women among the Himba, seminomadic pastoral people who live almost exclusively on livestock. These Himba women, their skin and elaborate braids beautifully decorated in red pigment made from crushed ochre and animal fat, would be *entered into arranged marriages at a young age. However, as Scelza discovered, while their husbands traveled long distances managing the herds, female adultery was commonplace back home. Out of 110 women interviewed, fully one-third said that they sought out extramarital affairs that resulted in the birth of at least one child. Because there is no social stigma attached to these liaisons in Himba society, both women and men discuss them openly. (Divorce can likewise be initiated by either party.) As a result, according to Scelza’s analysis published in the journal Biology Letters in 2011, “women who had at least one extra-pair birth have significantly higher reproductive success than women with none.”*

Of course, this was certainly not the first time that extra-pair paternity had been connected to female reproductive success. Previous studies have reported evidence of female infidelity in small-scale societies such as the !Kung of South Africa, the Ekiti of Nigeria, the Vanatinai of New Guinea, the Tiwi of Northern Australia, the Tsimane of Bolivia, and the Yanomami of Brazil. In addition, *53 societies can be classified as having systems of “informal polyandry” in which women have simultaneous sexual relationships with more than one man. * In many South American societies, such as the Ache, Bari, Canela, Mundurucu, and Mehinaku, it is believed that it takes the semen of several men to produce a baby. *In two of these “partible paternity” societies, the Ache and Bari, children with more than one father were found to have lower mortality and improved nutrition due to a greater level of provisioning. *When anthropologists Kim Hill and A. Magdalena Hurtado asked 321 Ache about their kinship information, the total included 632 fathers, or *an average of two “fathers” each. This is perhaps not so different from the common situation of American children who receive support from both their biological father and current stepfather. As long as the biological father contributes support, such children might well gain by having two fathers.*

While a great diversity of sexual norms exist around the world, ranging from strictly enforced monogamy to polyamory, according to Scelza’s new study *there are two environmental contexts where women commonly choose multiple partners. The first is where women have more material support from their kin or economic independence from men more generally. *This may explain why multiple mating is most common among small-scale matrilocal societies (in which women remain in their home village after marriage), such as the partible paternity societies of South America or the Mosuo of China. *It may also explain why female infidelity has increased in Western societies as women have gained greater political and economic independence. *(For example, Iceland was ranked first in gender equality by the World Economic Forum in 2013 at the same time that 67 percent of children were born out of wedlock, the highest rate in the Western world.) Under this scenario, *women choose multiple partners because they have more options available to them, they can rely on their support network during transitional times, and they have greater personal autonomy.*

*The second environmental context Scelza identified is where the sex ratio is female-biased (indicating a scarcity of men) or there is a high level of male unemployment (indicating a scarcity of men who can provide support). *Women may be trying to “make the best of a bad situation and capitalizing on their youth to improve their reproductive prospects.” In such environments women tend to have higher rates of teen pregnancy as well as illegitimate births. Multiple mating may be a way of hedging their bets in an unstable environment. *By pursuing an ardent sexual strategy, women are able to choose the best potential males as well as gain the support they need in order to maximize their reproductive success.*

In many societies today, including our own, women who are overtly sexual and pursue multiple male partners often experience moral outrage and “**** shaming” of a kind that is entirely unheard of in other parts of the world. While these cultural attitudes used to look toward science for justification, that position is becoming increasingly difficult to reconcile with the biological evidence. From Sarah Hrdy’s discoveries among the langurs of Abu to polyamorous meetups in Aberdeen, female sexuality has been revealed to be a far more dynamic area of research than Darwin could have imagined. As Hrdy stated herself in the Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences at the dawn of the 21st century, *far from being passive, females are “flexible and opportunistic individuals who confront recurring reproductive dilemmas and tradeoffs within a world of shifting options.” Or, as another observer summarized, “It’s our party. We can love who we want.”*


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

When it comes to sex many suffer from any number of physical or psychological problems that can cause severe sexual dysfunctions/pain that make sex extremely unpleasant many turn to masturbation and porn to get relief.


----------



## Mystic Moon (6 mo ago)

^^^
Very true. Surgical menopause in my 30's almost destroyed my sex drive. Compared to what it was before my surgery, it's now a mere shadow. Frustrating to no end, but I do try to keep my husband of 20+ years happy. 

He was actually relieved that my sex drive had dropped at first, because keeping up with me was not easy (it really wasn't, as 3-4 times daily was not unusual, and up to 7 times in a day if I didn't work the next day. Sex was fun, and how I liked releasing stress. It was extremely physical, and a great cardio workout 😉). Then it kept dropping, add on depression, a long recovery, pain, and 2+ years of hormone therapy trying to get them dialed in. Then chronic health problems caused by the surgery hit, and I became disabled. That is when you find out how strong your marriage is. 

Now that he is older (50+), and has his own health, and performance issues, he finally understands some of what I've been dealing with for 17 years. It humbled him.

We may not always have sex as often as either of us would like to, but it is always passionate and fulfilling. After 25 years together, it works for us.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Okguy said:


> Twice a month is not sexless. I would kill for that.


Why have you not gone to atty then? Why tolerate being treated the way you are? You allow people to treat you the way you are.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mystic Moon said:


> ^^^
> Very true. Surgical menopause in my 30's almost destroyed my sex drive. Compared to what it was before my surgery, it's now a mere shadow. Frustrating to no end, but I do try to keep my husband of 20+ years happy.
> 
> He was actually relieved that my sex drive had dropped at first, because keeping up with me was not easy (it really wasn't, as 3-4 times daily was not unusual, and up to 7 times in a day if I didn't work the next day. Sex was fun, and how I liked releasing stress. It was extremely physical, and a great cardio workout 😉). Then it kept dropping, add on depression, a long recovery, pain, and 2+ years of hormone therapy trying to get them dialed in. Then chronic health problems caused by the surgery hit, and I became disabled. That is when you find out how strong your marriage is.
> ...


Did they give you all 3 HRTs. You need Estrodial, progesterone and testosterone to replace what you no longer have. The compounded bio-identical cream for the last 2 are best. 
Took wife about 6 mo to get hers perfect and she is grateful for no more periods or pain. I am grateful for that as well as no more roller coaster emotions during month. Our marriage is better than ever after hysterectomy and HRT.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> I have a friend who hasn't had sex with his wife for over 4 years. For three years he tried everything that you are suppose to to rekindle the spark but nothing. Last year she told him that she doesn't have any sexual interest in him or anyone else. Her specifically mentioning "anyone else" is definitely a red flag.
> Anyway, I asked him how he deals with it. He told me that after their talk last year he lost any sexual attraction to her and put himself into the mindset that they are nothing more then friends/roommates/co-parenting business partners. Seems to work for them.


I could not, no would not do it. I am do not feel loving toward a friend/RM/BP and definitely would not act loving toward them. Have to trade that one in, she is defective.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Okguy said:


> I notice you classify your relationships as sexual relationships. So when the sex is gone so are you apparently.


Marriage IS a sexual relationship. I am a guy that feels emotional connection through sex. If my wife chose to cut out the sex, barring a major medical issue, I would see that as she no longer wanted me. Being wanted is a requirement of marriage in my book.


----------



## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

We’re probably at 3 weeks with no sex and on a ratio of once a month.

I’m about to start the 180 and will create a new thread at some point for help.

Already started a lite version of it. Went out last week for a drink with my friends, didn’t come home until midnight on a Sunday evening, didn’t go down well at home. She wanted an apology the next day. She didn’t get one.

She was furious the other night when a local barmaid was talking to me when we’re out for a drink, we were out with a group of friends, and she came over to me talking about the birth of her daughter 4 months ago. And her partner was standing not far away from her.

My wife isn’t really interested in sex or any form of affection and seems like I’m not allowed to talk to females now. Go figure.

I work from home so very rarely speak to any females whereas my wife works with lots of men and women and has work nights out.

Even her mother shakes her head at my wife and says she’s a complex character.

The 180 will come to a head pretty quickly and it certainly won’t get me any more affection or sex from her. Frankly I don’t care.

I’m quitting alcohol in the New Year and going 14 hours a day on my business. When it hits $10k a month. I’m out of here.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BIL310 said:


> The 180 will come to a head pretty quickly and it certainly won’t get me any more affection or sex from her. Frankly I don’t care.


No, it won't. Because she doesn't care about you. A spouse must still be interested in her/his partner for it to work. It will just end in divorce.


----------



## Mystic Moon (6 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> Did they give you all 3 HRTs. You need Estrodial, progesterone and testosterone to replace what you no longer have. The compounded bio-identical cream for the last 2 are best.
> Took wife about 6 mo to get hers perfect and she is grateful for no more periods or pain. I am grateful for that as well as no more roller coaster emotions during month. Our marriage is better than ever after hysterectomy and HRT.


Originally, yes I got compounded bio-identical cream, but had adverse reactions. Switched to progesterone and estradiol, and ended up with large cysts in my breasts from the progesterone. Tried patches, creams, gels, you name it, I tried it. After two miserable years of HRT he!! seeing multiple specialists, diet changes, and much more, my doctor and I finally agreed to settle on the lowest dose of estradiol that I could tolerate. Needless to say, it came with many drawbacks. 
I spent years going to specialists, and being an HRT guinea pig. So, my hysterectomy was not a happy outcome. I still have searing pain in one of my scars from adhesions. Basically, in my case, if it could go wrong, it did.

I manage, but my surgery set off several auto immune diseases that have left me disabled. It's been 17(ish) years, and I've learned to make the best of things. Some days are just harder than others. 

I'm glad your wife had a much better outcome from her situation. It's what I hoped for, it just didn't work out that way. I went from fit and active to never ending pain, overnight. My doctors were great. My body just had other plans. Thanks for your input, I do appreciate it.


----------



## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> No, it won't. Because she doesn't care about you. A spouse must still be interested in her/his partner for it to work. It will just end in divorce.


thats exactly what I’m expecting. I’m not doing this for anything else other than that.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> No, it won't. Because she doesn't care about you. A spouse must still be interested in her/his partner for it to work. It will just end in divorce.


I thought the 180 helped a husband to decouple from the wife as a precursor to separation and divorce. And to get him into the appropriate mindset to becoming single.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> I thought the 180 helped a husband to decouple from the wife as a precursor to separation and divorce. And to get him into the appropriate mindset to becoming single.


well, yes, there is that too… 😊


----------

