# Do I have reason to be concerned?



## beachbummed (Apr 25, 2012)

We both have a lot of stress due to other stuff going on that was niether of our faults (long story). This is when I noticed a change of behavior in my husband. He is going out more often and staying out later than the usual "few drinks" or "making an apearance". He's being asked more often to go out with the younger people from work. There's a group of them mixed with married, single men and women. Usually it's a house party and occationally a bar or both in one night. My husband is mid 30 and they are mid 20's. 

I think it's inappropriate to hang out with this young group in this setting especially with the single young women. He is their supervisor. 

In the past he has gone out for a few drinks and has come home at a decent hour. Or gone fishing or hunting. I am okay with that, but was always told that it was guys only.

I witnessed something with my own eyes at a bar party. I was across the way in the restraunt. Things were extrememly busy and I had to wait for my food for over an hour. Most of this time my husband was talking with a young female coworker at the entry of the bar. Neither of them knew I was there. Then she spotted me and I could tell she asked, "Isn't that your wife?" He tried waiving , but I was so confused and upset that I ignored all attempts. She looked alarmed and walked away. He did come sit at our table for a moment and then left back to the bar and he was pretty drunk.

Since this night I have felt sick. I can't shake this feeling that something is spiraling out of control. I've checked on him to see if he was alone or where he says he'll be. 

There was a time recently she left for some where. He didn't attempt to go out during this time. She came back after a couple of weeks and now he has been asked to several parties. Two were at her place that she shares with another coworker friend and his wife. They were both birthday parties for the women living there. One time he got a text asking him if he was going to make it from the one I saw him talking too. I think house parites with younger single woman present is unappropriate. I feel it's playing with fire-- in reguards to our marriage and his job.

I've tried to talk to him, but we have never been good at that. He doesn't like to talk about things and I get emaotional. 

We haven't experienced this type of thing really. When we first married there was a little something like this, but different. 

We have been married for almost 11 years. We have kids together. 

We have other marrital issues and get into bad patches. I feel all those are workable, but with this going on, it only magnifies it. I feel that he doesn't care about me.... then I start to wonder if he ever did. He's not one to express many different types of emotion. We don't get to spend much alone time together because we have a lot of kids. Then at the rare occational we have opportunity to go out... he "doesn't feel like it." It hurts. I can't live like this. 

I tried talking to him again and it only seemed to make things worse. We are scheduled for counseling in 6 days and I'm really hoping it will help, but he doesn't seem to want to give up going out with this young group from work. He says he doesn't want "rules." He makes it seem like I'm crazy. Like he whole thing I saw was not what I saw... my kids saw it too. He also says that this girl is usally there for all these get togethers, wich is bothering me since before all this he assured me it was only guys. 

Currently we are being really nice to eachother and he hasn't gone out. The thought of him going out makes me sick--really and I can't eat. It feels wrong.

I hope I'm wrong for doubting him.
Should I be concerned? Is this appropriate behavior from a 30- something family man? 

There's other things, but that's the current problem. 
TIA!


----------



## sunshinetoday (Mar 7, 2012)

Trust your instinct! 

No his behavior is not appropriate for a married man. NO WAY!

Single female coworkers should not be texting him to come to get togethers. He should not be going to parties without you. Bottom line, spouses should go together or there can be problems. 

Maybe your instinct has kicked in early and nothing has happened, so you can try to put a stop. You have to be viligant and maybe do a little spying to ease your mind. Phones/computers/passwords. And then work on reconnecting with him. If he is talking to some girl and she is talking back, giving him compliments/making him feel special.... that must stop first before any reconnecting can happen with you. Good Luck.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

No way your wrong to be concerned. There's a lot there that's out of bounds - none of it individually major but combined it paints a picture that is definitely cause for concern. Parties at a single females house - NFW!!! especially if she's a subordinate of his - that's a bad decision on every single level. 

I'm not going to sound the "he's cheating" alarm but you need to pay attention and listen to your instinct. If you find things that make you more suspicious or if you find evidence that he is involved in an inappropriate relationship DO NOT confront him - come here and get some advice on how to do it and some opinions on if you have enough to confront. If it goes that way - and I really hope it doesn't - confronting at the wrong time or without enough proof can really damage your position and make it a lot harder to get a positive outcome. 

In the mean time, work on reconnecting with him. Spend some time just the two of you. Hire a babysitter and go on a date. Do whatever it takes to get in front of him and let him see you as a "girl friend" and not the mother of his children.


----------



## beachbummed (Apr 25, 2012)

Thank you so much for your reply. I have no one to talk to and was doubting myself.

I recently got busted for reading his texts. Nothing out of the norm except really. He isn't much of a flirt though with savy lines. He is more of a joking type flirt wich can seem under the radar. 

We have couseling in 6 days. Really nervous. He has been really nice to me for the past two days after I left and threatened not to come home that night. I have denied reading the texts too and was wondering if I should come clean with that at counseling. I've never lied to him like that before either...It's eatting at me that I would even feel I had to do that. I have never read his texts before this, but that is how I found out she invited him to her and her coworker's house party. 

Her name has been comming up a lot lately and I didn't say much because I wanted to learn more. She did comment on his facial shave that he missed a patch--- didn't think that was apporpriate either. 

Thanks for listening.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Do not tell him you looked. Don't even hint at it. Here's why - if you do and he is involved in something bad he'll shut down that form of communication and you'll have to dig deeper - we call this going underground. Do not reveal any source of information you have, but keep looking.

Opinions differ here, but IMO you should not feel the least bit guilt for checking his text - I call it inspecting what you expect. When you have nothing to hide why should you care if the person you love most in the world scrolls through your text or emails?? 

The quicker you can move the better. If he's not involved in an affair yet but is headed that way time is critical. Once a person starts down that slope it proceeds very very fast - like lightning. I'm talking days - not weeks in some instances. Don't run out and confront him but don't be complacent either. Your radar is up for good reason be proactive in getting enough information to either confirm or reject your concerns. 

Keep posting here. The people here have been through it and all just want to try to help others with their experiences. If you find cause to really start snooping (you may already be there) people here can tell you how to go about it.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

beachbummed said:


> Thank you so much for your reply. I have no one to talk to and was doubting myself.
> 
> I recently got busted for reading his texts. Nothing out of the norm except really. He isn't much of a flirt though with savy lines. He is more of a joking type flirt wich can seem under the radar.
> 
> ...


I have a problem with those telling you to lie to him about reading the text. I do agree that you do not have to volunteer the info, but if you are questioned about it, you need to be truthful, after all trust is a two way street. At the moment you do not trust him, so your way to deal with that is going to be to lie to him and prove that he cannot trust you. Makes no sense.

That one item aside - did he get upset about you reading his text (you said you got busted)? He should not. It is not privacy, as some spouses claim, it is secrecy that kills marriages. There can be no secrets. So nothing wrong with you looking at his text and he should not mind.

Be totally honest with him in counseling and tell him how what he is doing is making you feel. Do not allow him to minimize your feelings or attempt to turn aside your suspicions. They are your feelings, right or wrong, this is how you feel and you need to talk about it. You cannot ignore it. It will eat away at you.

If he loves you and is truly committed to the marriage he will have to recognize how much pain he is causing and change his behavior. Hopefully a counselor can help you both.

I am on the fence about an affair here. Could be one or might not be. It is looking more to me like some kind of attempt to be the cool dude in a group of younger people. The younger kids are flattering him and he likes it.

But bottom line - his behavior is damaging the marriage and has to stop.

Good luck.

Edit: I work with a lot of younger people and I can tell you from personal experience that I find the way they talk to everyone inappropriate at times. I even had one young girl comment on how I looked in the jeans I wore for a casual day at the office. I considered it inappropriate but the next thing out of her mouth was that I should go get a look at Tammi and the tight pants she had on. Inappropriate to say the least, but to that age group it is somehow acceptable. Nothing overtly sexual and no follow up, but definitely made me uncomfortable.


----------



## beachbummed (Apr 25, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> I have a problem with those telling you to lie to him about reading the text. I do agree that you do not have to volunteer the info, but if you are questioned about it, you need to be truthful, after all trust is a two way street. At the moment you do not trust him, so your way to deal with that is going to be to lie to him and prove that he cannot trust you. Makes no sense.
> 
> That one item aside - did he get upset about you reading his text (you said you got busted)? He should not. It is not privacy, as some spouses claim, it is secrecy that kills marriages. There can be no secrets. So nothing wrong with you looking at his text and he should not mind.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## beachbummed (Apr 25, 2012)

I went back to his phone later and it was password blocked. At the time, I was suspicious that he was hiding something from me. Then he told me that the text was open to her where he did not leave it... I denied it. I felt absolutely guilty about it and it is still eating at me. He has since lifted the pass code block and I will not be reading any more texts behind his back. Still debating weather to come clean about it. I guess I have 6 days to think about it. He's going to be mist disappointed that I lied I think.

He Communicated with me more about this today. He wanted to know if I thought this issue would be resolved soon. I told him that it depends on how things continue from here and that I'll never be okay with him hanging out with single girls in any situation. He thinks it's stupid, but said he won't go out with these younger friends if that's what it takes to end this. He is kinda upset about it, but he said it's resolved. I wasn't sure how to take that because it seems like I'm putting an end to his fun... I wonder if this will make him unhappy and cause yet another issue down the road.... I guess, we'll have to move on and whatever happens does. Hopefully we can work this out.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your thoughts and advice. Sorry for any errors--texting from my phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I don't usually comment in the BW threads because I can be direct and seem crass, which is never my intention. Especially when there are others who are much more eloquent and better spoken than I, whereas I come off as harsh. But here goes:



beachbummed said:


> I think it's inappropriate to hang out with this young group in this setting especially with the single young women. He is their supervisor.


It's not only inappropriate for him to be fraternizing with these young single women as a married man, but it's inappropriate period because he's their supervisor. This can be cause for termination of employment in some companies. He can't be one of the guys anymore and he loses his authority as a supervisor when he fraternizes with his subordinates.



beachbummed said:


> Then she spotted me and I could tell she asked, "Isn't that your wife?" He tried waiving , but I was so confused and upset that I ignored all attempts. She looked alarmed and walked away. He did come sit at our table for a moment and then left back to the bar and he was pretty drunk.


They were obviously caught, and he tried to play it cool, thinking if he doesn't act guilty, you'll ignore it. He actually thinks he was able to play you.



beachbummed said:


> Since this night I have felt sick. I can't shake this feeling that something is spiraling out of control. I've checked on him to see if he was alone or where he says he'll be.


Yes, this is your gut screaming at you that something is wrong. Its normal. Listen to your gut instincts/intuition.



beachbummed said:


> There was a time recently she left for some where. He didn't attempt to go out during this time.


This obviously shows an emotional attachment to her, he can't enjoy himself with this new crowd if she isnt there. This alone qualifies her now for the OW label. Huge red flag here.



beachbummed said:


> She came back after a couple of weeks and now he has been asked to several parties. Two were at her place that she shares with another coworker friend and his wife. They were both birthday parties for the women living there. One time he got a text asking him if he was going to make it from the one I saw him talking too. I think house parites with younger single woman present is unappropriate. I feel it's playing with fire-- in reguards to our marriage and his job.


And when OW comes back to town, he's partying it up again. 
Yes, another red flag. It's now cause for further and deeper investigation.



beachbummed said:


> I've tried to talk to him, but we have never been good at that. He doesn't like to talk about things and I get emaotional.





beachbummed said:


> I tried talking to him again and it only seemed to make things worse. We are scheduled for counseling in 6 days and I'm really hoping it will help, but he doesn't seem to want to give up going out with this young group from work.


If people in this forum have learned one thing, it's that Marriage Counseling (MC) is useless while one partner is in the middle of an affair. At this point, it's clear that your WH is now in an EA at the very least, possibly PA even. MC is not some magic pill that will save a marriage from infidelity or shake some WS out of an affair. WS have been known to lie to the MC even. It happens all the time.



beachbummed said:


> I hope I'm wrong for doubting him.
> Should I be concerned? Is this appropriate behavior from a 30- something family man?


No you're not wrong and you should be very concerned. He's in an EA. Now whether or not it's gone PA, will have to be determined. Now you must take steps to protect your marriage, and that means killing this affair. Unfortunately, like you said, OW is young and single, so there is no OWH or OWBF to expose the affair to. And for you, exposing the affair to his HR might possibly cost your WH his job. Either way, one of them has to leave the job because there is no way to go NC if they still work together. Your situation is more difficult than others because of your WHs job and her relationship status (single).

Its time to invest in a keylogger for the computer and a couple of VARs. One of the best places to install a VAR is under the seat of the WSs vehicle using industrial strength velcro.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

beachbummed said:


> I went back to his phone later and it was password blocked. At the time, I was suspicious that he was hiding something from me. Then he told me that the text was open to her where he did not leave it... I denied it. I felt absolutely guilty about it and it is still eating at me. He has since lifted the pass code block and I will not be reading any more texts behind his back. Still debating weather to come clean about it. I guess I have 6 days to think about it. He's going to be mist disappointed that I lied I think.


Huge red flag here. Only reason for putting a password on his phone all of a sudden, to cover his cheating. Now of course he removes it after he has sanitized it of any incriminating evidence. 

Stop feeling guilty. You have the right to check his phone after his recent behavior. Read this:

Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights « betrayed but recovering

What kind of phone is it? Hopefully it's a blackberry or iPhone.



beachbummed said:


> He Communicated with me more about this today. *He wanted to know if I thought this issue would be resolved soon*. I told him that it depends on how things continue from here and that I'll never be okay with him hanging out with single girls in any situation. *He thinks it's stupid*, but said he won't go out with these younger friends if that's what it takes to end this. He is kinda upset about it, but he said it's resolved.


Yet another red flag. He wants you to sweep this under the rug. One possible reason why he's willing to stop going out with the younger friends is that he's now in a relationship with the OW and he can take it underground now. Don't fall for it or sweep this under the rug. He's not owning up to his inappropriate behavior. In fact, he's blameshifting and gaslighting you. He has you convinced that this is just your jealousy. It's not. He's definitely in an EA with this woman, whether its two way, you will have to find out for yourself.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

> We don't get to spend much alone time together because we have a lot of kids. Then at the rare occational we have opportunity to go out... he "doesn't feel like it." It hurts. I can't live like this.


The above statement is of great concern in your marriage. 
He has time to go out and party. But the two of you cannot find alone time together? 
He should be home helping you so that the two of you can find time together.

This is a HUGE topic that the two of you need to discuss with the MC.


----------



## beachbummed (Apr 25, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The above statement is of great concern in your marriage.
> He has time to go out and party. But the two of you cannot find alone time together?
> He should be home helping you so that the two of you can find time together.
> 
> This is a HUGE topic that the two of you need to discuss with the MC.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

still a bit confused on what you saw exactly... i mean were they just talking in the bar, was she touching him in anyway... your post is a bit broken with your evidence.

I agree this behavior is highly inappropriate, as a father/husband but also as their supervisor. What does your husband do for a living, this is not professional attitude on his behalf. 

Another thing, if you have concerns and you cannot voice those concers, that is a big issue, I hope you get some sound advice with the MC, good luck and keep us posted


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

The addition of the lock on his phone is a HUGE step in the WRONG direction. He's got you playing defense. You've done nothing wrong, including reading his text, start playing offense and do some investigating. 

What he's doing to you is so common we have terms for it. Making you think you're crazy is called gas lighting. Making you think it's your fault is called blame shifting. 

I still won't sound the affair alarm yet, but he's following the cheater's script almost verbatim.


----------



## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

Not only do you have good reason to be concerned, you would be a fool if you weren't.

Red Flag city with his behavior. What he is doing goes beyond inappropriate.


----------



## beachbummed (Apr 25, 2012)

He has an iphone. I also looked at all his recent call history. When I originally cofronted him we got in an argument and I left the house for a drive to clear my head. He called me to see what I was doing. I noticed he called her right after and the conversation was only 45 secs. There is not a lot of calls to her or they are deleated. Texts are not many and usually not too much back in forth conversation.

All I saw of them were that they were talking. It wasn't anything too off except that they were talking for a long time. The conversation lasted 30-60 minutes. He was talking loadly because he was drunk. He was talking about construction of our home and he also showed her his new pocket knife.... that's all I got out of it.

I came clean with the snooping and that I lied about it. He took it better than I thought. He has actually been very nice to me since I threatned to leave. I did leave for a few hours. In this time he started the set up for counseling.

I want to believe him. I want to trust him. For now I'm waiting to see what counseling brings and hoping to improve many things in our relationship. 

I really appreciate it that you all seem to agree that his behavior is questionable and that I had right to feel suspicious. Yes, he made my feel like I was crazy for even thinking any of this was even slightly inapporpriate. But, that seems to be his response about all matters. He's a hard nut to crack. I'm hoping we can work on our communication. That has always been a big issue for us.

Again, thank you for all your support. It means alot.


----------



## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

beachbummed said:


> I want to believe him. I want to trust him.


No doubt you do, dear, but trust is earned slowly, and evaporates almost instantly. He certainly hasn't been acting in a manner to deserve your trust--quite the opposite.

People who gaslight and blameshift are the last people in the world you should expect to get any truth from.

If I were in your position right now, if he said it were raining outside, I'd take 30 steps to look for myself before I would take one extra step to grab an umbrella.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

He has an iPhone. Ok, then check the backup logs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

