# Can't seem to move on...



## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

I posted before about my situation, I honestly didn't "hear what I wanted to hear," and "walked" away from the thread.

I realize that my situation is not unique, but I am hoping to get some good input.

When everything began, the OW was my DH's XW... they have a daughter together...

Because of their daughter, I know that in some way they will "have" to remain in contact with one another, at least until she is no longer a minor/legally an adult. (Possibly longer if she decides to pursue higher education.)

Some facts/with some personal feelings mixed in:

1) DH wrote his XW a letter late 2010 mentioning that he has always loved her.

2) DH told me that his XW was his true love (I was pregnant with DS #2 at the time)

3) Less than a month after DS #2 was born, we moved over 100 miles away so he could be "closer to his daughter"

4) He declared us "separated" yet we were living in the same house

5) He dated, and proposed to his XW, all while we were living together

6) She said yes

7) I moved out, with both DSes, and we were separated for almost 3 years until we got back together

8) DH moved out of state for a job - he didn't move back until this past summer

9) fast-forward: he says "she's crazy" and "doesn't want anything to do with her"

10) we have a heart-to-heart where I tell him I don't trust him and want him to tell his XW that it's truly over yet he still wants to be a part of their daughter's life

10) he won't do it because "I'm not sure how she'll react"

11) he claimed that it was already over due to what his XW said via text message

12) they have not, to my knowledge, communicated with her since that day (also, his cell phone number has changed during then and now)

He, finally, admitted having an EA with her, I will probably never know if it progressed into a PA* (it probably did once I moved/was no longer there). He did admit to kissing her... and that's probably all I'll ever get on that.

*yes, I still consider it an affair even if we were separated. To me, anything done with another person while you are still legally married is an affair. I'm not innocent of this either.

Am I wrong for thinking that he doesn't want to tell her 1) he's back in the same state & 2) that we're back together so he can keep her "on the back burner" in case we don't work out?

I don't believe what I asked for was out of line, or impossible/improbable...

The following is what I asked him to do on October 21st (non-relative parts/names removed):



> I know I hurt you the other day when I said that I wanted to trust you...
> I've been thinking about a few things that will help me. And I know that this will be a big deal for you...
> I believe it will be in your/our best interest(s) if you "come clean" with [XW].
> You say that you hate liars, but when it comes to her you have become one.
> ...


I just don't understand, that if it is "truly over" between them why it would be so hard to do this for me. I'm not telling him to not continue to try to be part of his daughter's life... I just want to make sure/ I want closure that is truly is over between him and his XW.

I even, verbally, offered to help him tell her as much.

He just shrugged, said it was over and didn't know how she'd take it if/when she found/finds out he's back in the state.

Part of me is VERY tempted to contact his XW and tell her as such... I know if I do so, it would most likely create a rift between DH and I.

Even though the post is long winded, my question is this:

Was what I asked so unreasonable to do? (No matter what her/his XW's reaction would be -- and why would that even matter?)


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

What you wrote is reasonable... I doubt he will abide by most of it. He will say he agrees but you already know his word is worthless.

I guess I don't really understand.... He was with her, then you, then her, now you. That's a lot of flipping and flopping. He will bore of you and go back to her and say you are crazy. In fact it's not unreasonable to see her here posting a similar story from her point of view, is it?

Why bother? Move on. Many decent guys out there.

Good luck!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

This must be an incredibly draining situation for you and I applaud your efforts on wanting to work this thru. But man oh man you have bent enough for this man, in regards to his XW, not his want to be around his child. 

Well the best way to catch a snake is to set the grass on fire, time to go on the offensive. You already know a lot of details but are in the dark about his and her intentions. You also say she is on the back burner in case you and him don't work out, this is actually in reverse, she is on the back burner waiting, for him. Now if he doesn't have the balls to end the marriage to be with her then he better ensure your needs and demands are met.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

He should be lucky you took him back, after abandoning you.

No, you are not wrong.

If you look at what he did to you, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

I am sorry to say, he is selfish, and quite frankly not empathetic.

He probably minimize what he did, and you should stay detach, and observe.

Don't let your emotions rule your logic in this one.

He already has a past as a cheater, and you know he is willing to abandon you for something that makes him feel better.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm not going to judge you on why you took him back; but I think sooner than later, you'll realize that was a terrible decision for you.

That said, given his history, I would not tolerate one ounce of contact with the OW that wasn't necessary for his daughter; and insist that you be able to verify that limited contact by his transparency. 

I would insist that he wright her a letter, essentially saying he is doing this to save his marriage to you. If that pisses the OW off, too bad. Tell him he can see his daughter all he wants if he doesn't agree/abide to this, because he won't be with you. Then stand by your word.


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> What you wrote is reasonable... I doubt he will abide by most of it. He will say he agrees but you already know his word is worthless.
> 
> I guess I don't really understand.... He was with her, then you, then her, now you. That's a lot of flipping and flopping. He will bore of you and go back to her and say you are crazy. In fact it's not unreasonable to see her here posting a similar story from her point of view, is it?
> 
> ...


I spent the past few years moving on with my life. Even though I do not want to, I am not above leaving him again.

He and his XW were divorced for several years before we met. No, I am not sure if he was completely "over" her whenever we did meet.

I am 99.99% sure he did tell her that I am crazy.

It's petty of me to say so, but I'm not sure his XW is competent enough to find this website and use it...

I bother because I love the bastard... I'm not blind to his wrong doings (if anything, I am more aware of them now than I was in the past).



IIJokerII said:


> This must be an incredibly draining situation for you and I applaud your efforts on wanting to work this thru. But man oh man you have bent enough for this man, in regards to his XW, not his want to be around his child.
> 
> Well the best way to catch a snake is to set the grass on fire, time to go on the offensive. You already know a lot of details but are in the dark about his and her intentions. You also say she is on the back burner in case you and him don't work out, this is actually in reverse, she is on the back burner waiting, for him. Now if he doesn't have the balls to end the marriage to be with her then he better ensure your needs and demands are met.


I will try to bring it up with him again. I will offer to either call or email her for him. 

This is the conversation/text message(s) I was referring to earlier:



> [XW]: Oh. Do u ever think of us anymore?
> [DH]: Tough to. Usually i only hear from you in payday. I miss us, but i feel like it was one-way.
> [XW]: No. We called or texted about the same.
> [DH]: I called all the time. No answer. I stood leaving messages.
> [XW]: I dont know why i brought it up. We dont talk to each other anymore. Its not just me. The distance wont make it work. Wish it wouldve worked. But i do miss u to.


*the distance wont make it work*... rereading that after what you said, I believe you are correct. Am I wrong for thinking that if she found out he was back in the state, she would try something? As far as she knows, he is still in another state working for the first company that hired him/why he moved in the first place...



Mr.Fisty said:


> He should be lucky you took him back, after abandoning you.
> 
> No, you are not wrong.
> 
> ...


I am trying to stay detached and not let my emotions rule... but it is a hard thing to do.

I currently think he is over compensating, trying to reassure me that everything is "hunky-dory" by not going out and doing anything without me - for the most part.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

She clearly wants him back... So yes if she knew he was around she would kick it into high gear. He's at best deflecting her, but seems eager to buy into what she is selling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Just trust your gut on this one, until you are satisfied and by posting here you most definitely convinced it is over, nor would I. If your hungry you eat. If your thirsty you'll drink. If your gut is telling you that your husband is cake eating and lying to his loving and caring wife, well, it is more than likely telling you the truth. Your instincts don't lie, only people do. 

So are you ready to light the field on fire or what? Catch them snakes!!!


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

badmemory said:


> I would insist that he wright her a letter, essentially saying he is doing this to save his marriage to you. If that pisses the OW off, too bad. Tell him he can see his daughter all he wants if he doesn't agree/abide to this, because he won't be with you. Then stand by your word.


The only reason I am hesitant to do this is because the last time an ultimatum was brought up, it was from him...

It was something like: You're opinion is wrong. Either you can change it or move out within a week.

I was gone, with both DSes, the next day.

I will ask him to do so, and let him know that if he doesn't, I will. I have her email address, I know where to find her on facebook, I know her physical address... only thing I'm not sure on is her telephone number.

I do want our marriage to work. So, I guess I will be giving him an ultimatum - either he can tell her, or I can. I'll update this with the results whenever I have any.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

zyx12321xyz said:


> The only reason I am hesitant to do this is because the last time an ultimatum was brought up, it was from him...
> 
> It was something like: You're opinion is wrong. Either you can change it or move out within a week.
> 
> ...


 Remember the most useful aspect of a ultimatum, consequences in lieu of results. You have already proven you will answer his ultimatums, let him taste the bitterness of you doling out and following your own, take the control back. 

Also, do not at any rate let him tell you your opinions, thoughts or feelings are wrong. This vocabulary suggests a mindset that he is right, you are wrong and that's that. He, and anyone, can disagree with anyone else on planet earth, but nobody gets to tell you what you should think and feel. 

No, log off of this muh fuggah and go kick some a55!!!


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

zyx12321xyz said:


> 9) fast-forward: he says "she's crazy" and "doesn't want anything to do with her",,,,,,
> 
> 
> ,,,,, Part of me is VERY tempted to contact his XW and tell her as such... I know if I do so, it would most likely create a rift between DH and I.


It's all right there.


That's exactly what he tells her about you when you're going through your 'bad patches.'


He's a 'serial returner' - a sub-division of the serial cheater.

Should you contact the ExW/OW, and if she's honest, you can bet her experience will be a near mirror image of yours.


Rather obviously, the serial returner can only return to women who'll take him back,, again and again and again.


You're examining the scales to confirm it's a snake. It IS a snake. You have all the info you need already. Value yourself and quit tolerating his wishy-washy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

I have yet to deliver the ultimatum, but I wanted a "game plan," so to speak, before I gave it.

I have drafted the following letter to send to the XW (I still can't decide which way to send it - email, facebook message, or via post) and I would like opinions on it. Mainly to see if there is anything I may have left out that could be important. (Again, names and other personal/identifying information have been removed.)



> Dear [XW],
> 
> I realize that I am probably the last person that you ever thought would write you a letter, but this letter needs to be written and the words in it taken to heart.
> 
> ...


I do not like confrontation, so delivering said ultimatum will be difficult for me, but I will do so.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Consider that you might be having an EA with a proven cheater. Maybe a PA. 

Next this clown and avoid the circus acts. Don't live a lie. Break this cycle


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Since your walking a tightrope, I don't see if you need any changes.

Since he is a serial cheater, and he may leave you again, make sure you do everything possible to be financially stable.

If he leaves again, which he has a history of, have a safety nest egg ready.

I know you love him, but instead of something wrong with his ex, or you, there maybe something wrong with him.

He may be lying to himself and everyone around so he won't feel the guilt for abandoning people in his life.

If things hit a low patch in your relationship, he is likely to jump ship again.

He may keep his ex hooked, just in case things don't work out with you.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

zyx12321xyz said:


> It was something like: You're opinion is wrong. Either you can change it or move out within a week.
> 
> I was gone, with both DSes, the next day.
> 
> I will ask him to do so, and let him know that if he doesn't, I will.


So, essentially he dared you to divorce him then, and you stopped short of that.

I believe you are making a mistake for not holding him accountable for communicating to her himself. You doing it, will likely do more harm than good. She'll believe that because he's not delivering the message, he must still be interested in her; and that you are desperate in your attempts to prevent him from slipping away again.

But, it's your life and that's just one man's opinion.


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Consider that you might be having an EA with a proven cheater. Maybe a PA.
> 
> Next this clown and avoid the circus acts. Don't live a lie. Break this cycle


I don't understand this reasoning. How could I be having an EA or a PA with my HUSBAND?



Mr.Fisty said:


> Since your walking a tightrope, I don't see if you need any changes.
> 
> Since he is a serial cheater, and he may leave you again, make sure you do everything possible to be financially stable.
> 
> ...


I agree with the nest-egg idea.

I also agree that part of him is "broken" - and I'm unsure of to go about "fixing" it. (how do you fix something in someone if they won't admit they have a problem?)

I am afraid of him jumping ship again...

I want him to UNHOOK himself from his XW.... (no, I haven't talked to him about it yet...)

Which leads me to:


badmemory said:


> So, essentially he dared you to divorce him then, and you stopped short of that.
> 
> I believe you are making a mistake for not holding him accountable for communicating to her himself. You doing it, will likely do more harm than good. She'll believe that because he's not delivering the message, he must still be interested in her; and that you are desperate in your attempts to prevent him from slipping away again.
> 
> But, it's your life and that's just one man's opinion.


Yes, in a way he dared me to do so, BUT he had been using divorce and taking away my child(ren) as a threat for months before that. I was tired of being berated and beat down emotionally so I left. It was the straw that broke the camel's back.

(He HAS, so far, changed in this regard. If he hadn't, we wouldn't be back together. If he reverts back to this form of abusive behavior I WILL leave.)

I can agree with what you said. Part of me is afraid that would be exactly what happened if I were to do so (and go ahead and send that to her myself).

I can only attribute my hesitance on talking to him about it due to 1)it has been around 4 years since the fit really started hitting the shan with his XW 2)holidays, oh my, the holidays coming up... (and a few birthdays thrown into the mix.) and 3) my dislike for confrontation, in general. 
(Yes, excuses and cowardice - at least I recognize it in myself.)


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

zyx12321xyz said:


> Part of me is *afraid* that would be exactly what happened if I were to do so (and go ahead and send that to her myself).


There is the crux of the issue OP. He's counting on your fear of divorce. You need to find your anger. He values his relationship with her, more than you or his marriage. That should be more than enough to get you fired up. Use your anger to offset that fear.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

You send that to her, you are creating a competition, it's not going to end well. She is not the problem anyway, he is. If he told you she is his true love, you do realize you will never live up to her in his eyes? Why is that OK with you? I could not handle being someones fall back. Don't you deserve to be loved as much as you love?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Observer said:


> You send that to her, you are creating a competition, it's not going to end well.


:iagree:


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## SimplyCrushed (Nov 21, 2014)

We are not in the same situation but my EX- Fiance has a child with his XW. I have been over accommodating and took a more active role than even he did in regards to parenting. I am also on better terms with her then he is, it does not sound like she is an ally.. or even a woman that won't stand for him destroying you and her.

Any man calling a woman "crazy" etc. is covering up for himself with a typical excuse 

I'm literally pregnant right now and I honestly don't even know if I will tell my ex about it.. simply because what you wrote/my fears. But I struggle with it daily. I don't blame you for being pulled back, but after a lot of soul searching for the last (insane) weeks I realize that the relationship is toxic/doomed.

I only know pieces of my ex cheating (with co-worker) and a few things he said to his XW - but it makes me sick. 

Take some time to imagine the things you can do with your life and child. Keep yourself busy, go to counselling.. work on YOU.

There is always someone around if you want a bad relationship- no shortage of those  So why not be single, happy and look for someone who loves YOU unconditionally?


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## SimplyCrushed (Nov 21, 2014)

zyx12321xyz said:


> I also agree that part of him is "broken" - and I'm unsure of to go about "fixing" it. (how do you fix something in someone if they won't admit they have a problem?)
> 
> I am afraid of him jumping ship again...
> 
> ...


You can't fix him... you can only control your actions, not his or XW...

I didn't see any mention of you working on the relationship/your insecurities with a professional. You should do this and save money where he can never excess it.

Good luck taking your kids away... ridiculous threat. Again, I don't have a child yet (just preggers) so I can't 100% relate but he does not care about your kids if he is making those threats and endangering your relationship.

You have to ask yourself if you want to wake up 5 years down the line and still be in the same place. How do you know he won't start something with another woman? It doesn't seem like he was super remorseful about the first time.

I really wish you the best


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