# Never thought I'd be here...



## hurtinginohio

So, my husband just a week ago admitted to having a "cyber" affair. Apparently he started talking to this woman via instagram which progressed to texts and phone calls. I looked up the phone records, they would text a few times a day and have a phone conversation every day (during the week) for anywhere from 30-70 minutes for about 3-4 weeks. He's never, ever met her in person, she lives in another state. We had it out, there were tears, of course I'm hurt and angry but we had a long conversation yesterday and made some real progress. He promised he's had no contact since he told me about her last week. I believe him, I checked the phone records and he blocked her from Instagram.

Today, he sends me an IM while I'm at work telling me he just needs to tell me some things he can't tell me to my face. He said when they started talking she filled an emotional void that we had. So instead of talking to me how he's feeling he starts talking to a random internet stranger and in his words "fell for her hard". Now he's an emotional mess because he had to give that up and he doesn't know where his heart and head are right now. Told me he's having a "bad day" and that it's just going to take time to get over her. He's agreed to go to counseling and says he is trying to make things work (been married almost 13 years, have an 11 year old daughter) and that he loves me.

I don't know what I'm expecting here, maybe some empathy from those who have been through it, some advice, I don't know but I just felt like I needed to get it out. I've been reading her for the past week and finally registered today.

It's weird, but I think I'd be less hurt if he'd have just had a one night stand with someone than have had this emotional affair.


----------



## NoChoice

Typically it is easier for a woman to "forgive" a ONS than an EA. Men are usually the opposite. If he has agreed to NC then you are already on the right track. Communication is the foundation of any relationship, marriage being no exception. Without it, there can be no real unity and understanding. Take the time to open up to one another and discuss the issues before they become mountains. There will be more good advice to follow but without communication failure is eminent.


----------



## MattMatt

hurtinginohio said:


> So, my husband just a week ago admitted to having a "cyber" affair. Apparently he started talking to this woman via instagram which progressed to texts and phone calls. I looked up the phone records, they would text a few times a day and have a phone conversation every day (during the week) for anywhere from 30-70 minutes for about 3-4 weeks. He's never, ever met her in person, she lives in another state. We had it out, there were tears, of course I'm hurt and angry but we had a long conversation yesterday and made some real progress. He promised he's had no contact since he told me about her last week. I believe him, I checked the phone records and he blocked her from Instagram.
> 
> Today, he sends me an IM while I'm at work telling me he just needs to tell me some things he can't tell me to my face. He said when they started talking she filled an emotional void that we had. So instead of talking to me how he's feeling he starts talking to a random internet stranger and in his words "fell for her hard". Now he's an emotional mess because he had to give that up and he doesn't know where his heart and head are right now. Told me he's having a "bad day" and that it's just going to take time to get over her. He's agreed to go to counseling and says he is trying to make things work (been married almost 13 years, have an 11 year old daughter) and that he loves me.
> 
> I don't know what I'm expecting here, maybe some empathy from those who have been through it, some advice, I don't know but I just felt like I needed to get it out. I've been reading her for the past week and finally registered today.
> 
> It's weird, but I think I'd be less hurt if he'd have just had a one night stand with someone than have had this emotional affair.


*Oh, dear! I am so glad you are here, sorry you had to find us, even so.

*Bloody Hell! "_Oh dear_?" Crikey How British was that of me? :rofl:

Right. You had an emotional void? Well, did you? Or is that your husband reinventing the history of your marriage to justify his cheating on you and cheating on your daughter?

He needs to tell you everything. And I mean everything.

You will probably need counselling, both couple's counselling and as individuals. 

You can get through this, we'll be here for you.


----------



## badmemory

It always amazes me how a WS can get so enamored with someone they've never met face to face. Assuming you know that for a fact.

Him telling you about this emotional attachment to her one time, is bad enough. I suppose you can give him points for being honest about it. But beyond that is cruel. I wouldn't allow him to talk to you about that again. It's not unusual for a WS to be in a type of WS fog after no contact, but that's his problem to deal with, not yours.

What that tells me is that he's thinking more about her than helping you get past this and saving his marriage. Don't accept anything less from him than 100 percent transparency, unconditional remorse, willingness to answer your questions for as long as you want, and demonstrated heavy lifting to repair your hurt.

Expose him to his family and yours. Find out if this OW has a husband or SO, and his expose her as well. He needs to send her a no contact letter if he hasn't - that you approve of. He needs to accept all due consequences as part of his demonstrated remorse.

Keep posting and we can help you with recognizing what that looks like.

Sorry you're here.


----------



## hurtinginohio

MattMatt said:


> *Oh, dear! I am so glad you are here, sorry you had to find us, even so.
> 
> *Bloody Hell! "_Oh dear_?" Crikey How British was that of me? :rofl:
> 
> Right. You had an emotional void? Well, did you? Or is that your husband reinventing the history of your marriage to justify his cheating on you and cheating on your daughter?
> 
> He needs to tell you everything. And I mean everything.
> 
> You will probably need counselling, both couple's counselling and as individuals.
> 
> You can get through this, we'll be here for you.


I don't know if I'd call it an emotional void, but we did get to the place where we both went to bed with our ipads and the tv on. We both work full time jobs and have long commutes our every day life did start getting stale. We do a lot of traveling and always have a great time on trips, then settled back into a routine. He changed jobs just over a year ago and has a LOT more down time, therefore more time to think and over analyze things.

We are seeing a counselor tomorrow afternoon, so that's a good step in the right direction. 

I do love him and I will fight to make this work. I guess I'm just confused why he thinks I should care or feel sorry for him in dealing with his feelings for someone else?


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> I guess I'm just confused why he thinks I should care or feel sorry for him in dealing with his feelings for someone else?


For the same reason he started the A in the first place. Total selfishness.


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> I do love him and I will fight to make this work.


You don't need to fight, he does. All you have to do is make a call on whether you will continue the marriage or not. This is all on him to convince you that's the right choice for you.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Either your husband has poor communication skills boundaries, or both.

Your angry because he invested that emotional energy towards someone else.

He is going through the withdrawal phase of ending a relationship.

When you first fall in love with someone, it is the infatuation stage of romance. It hits the brain like heroin.

He is going to have to prove to you, that you can trust him again. 

You are going to go through a rollercoaster of emotions, and it will level off to a certain extent.

You two are going to have to find out what went wrong, and find a way to correct it.

When people are in a committed relationship, they need quality time to keep the bonding up. When bonds weaken, there is a higher chance of infidelity, or break down of communication and relationship.

Best thing for you to do, is find a healthy outlet.

You may need a neutral party to speak too. 


His actions are his to own, and he has to fix them himself.

During your triggers, he should do what you ask. 

Whether it is space, or him holding you. He needs to help you deal with the triggers.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

Since you report no other domestic problems, I'll assume you're both some kind of 'content'.

That's a pretty good state for a marriage. Only young people think the infatuation period lasts forever.

The rest of us know that feeling wears off and you continue on the other things that bound you together.

Looking at other couples, we know that 'content' is a good place to be. What it lacks, is a promise of excitement and variety which makes all but the happiest partners vulnerable.

The 'danger' with the net, less obvious than it was when there were only text chatrooms, is that the other person only needs to be friendly, and we'll fill in the gaps with everything you want them to be. If you can't see their picture, they're beautiful. You KNOW they're great in bed, even if you've never discussed it.

With people, in the beginning, not telling you their bad points (like a CV, the bad shìt gets left out), you have a good picture and fill in the gaps to make it perfect.

Emotionally, that makes the spouse you were comfortable with kinda unexciting.

That's where your hubby is at,, but doesn't understand how he got there. 

He's come clean and I'm in little doubt he's done that cuz he knows he's happy with you and doesn't want to leave.

He needs to understand how he's created and become attached to a fantasy. She's not told him about her flaws,, he wont've made them up. In his head, she's perfect, and you can't compete with that.

Shutting her out is the right start. If you can get him to understand the process I described - which is 'standard' for net EAs - he'll identify the gaps he's filled in and his perfect picture will start crumbling.

Upsetting though it is for you,, try to understand what's happened here. It's no reflection on you. Your hubby is a victim of a common human weakness,, being enticed by a fantasy.

It's a mistake he'll learn from when he understands how he made it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Amplexor

hurtinginohio said:


> I guess I'm just confused why he thinks I should care or feel sorry for him in dealing with his feelings for someone else?


You cannot be responsible for his emotional baggage on this. It is a situation that he created and will need to deal with. But he is emotionally lost at this point. His false emotional center is gone and his bond with your is broken, he's adrift. Counseling will help both of you with the fallout.

For you to have success the first priority is to kill the affair and total transparency. Many have already listed the steps needed to do that. I will disagree with Badmemory on exposure at this point. It is very much the nuclear option and my recommendation is to use it if the WS refuses to end the illicit relationship. If he has ended it and you can verify that to your satisfaction, exposure will only complicate the process and you'll have to deal with the fall out with family members for years to come.

If you elect to attempt R this is typically a long term process. It will not come in weeks and maybe not in months for full recovery. My wife had an EA with circumstances similar to your husband's. Only for a much longer time and I'd bet a deeper emotional connection. That was several years ago and we fully recovered. After the process of killing his feelings for this other woman begins you'll go through a process of limbo. After that, resentment towards him. If you immediately reconnect and go your merry way, you've probably not addressed core issues in marriage. Our marriage had to be rebuilt from scratch. The foundation properties were gone. Friendship, empathy, communication, respect and sexual intimacy were damaged before she entered into her affair and completely dismantled during it. It took years for us to get everything resolved, rebuilt and happy again. When the dust settles a bit you will need to do an inventory of the marriage and identify the issues both of you have in it. Counseling will help if you have the right one. Things will not work out as planned, there will be bumps and curves. It can be tough as hell.

I have no other immediate advice but wanted you to know marriages can recover from this as mine did. Best of luck.


----------



## Openminded

Marriage often becomes routine. Boring. Then a shiny new toy appears. Suddenly life is exciting again. That's what he had. With no responsibilities for the care and maintenance of the shiny new toy. That's why an EA is so appealing. Until recently, it wasn't even considered cheating. A lot of cheaters still don't consider it cheating. 

Your husband needs to understand it isn't your job to empathize with his unhappiness at having to give up someone who fed his ego and made him feel good. He's infatuated with her and he's having withdrawal pains because he can't comtact her. Be prepared that he could backslide amd monitor him.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> I guess I'm just confused why he thinks I should care or feel sorry for him in dealing with his feelings for someone else?


Because that's always been your role - his helper, his soother, his mommy replacement. 

Have you set up any high hoops to jump through to prove himself?


----------



## Hardtohandle

hurtinginohio said:


> It's weird, but I think I'd be less hurt if he'd have just had a one night stand with someone than have had this emotional affair.


Take it from me, trust me you wouldn't.. I've been through both.. and the EA is much less painful. Its comparing to being threaten to be shot and actually being shot.. 

Your husband is going to have to be as open as possible and have the courage to say things to your face if he ever hopes of fixing this marriage between you and him. Because that is what brought him to this point in the first place, meaning his lack of courage to bring up these issues in the first place.


----------



## Q tip

Cheating is cheating. Emotionally or physically. Read through this. If you feel it applies, share it with him.

He has a lot of work to do and ground to cover with you. It is he who does the heavy lifting, not you. He needs to prove himself to you. If it does not work to your satisfaction, you have recourse. Consequences for cheating is Divorce. He has no vote on this. Only you. You can D next week or 5 years from now. It's all up to him and his behavior - and how he fixes this mess he owns. And he does own this 100%. You did not make him do this. He owns it. 

Start with getting an STD test for him and yourself. Shock value. Yah, it was emotional, but how do you know for sure. Cheaters minimize. You, him and the doctor will embarrass him for starters. You can also expose him to family and friends. Cheaters hate the light of day. That will help him recover his lost feelings for her real fast. Consequences for cheating, family and friends find out. 

Presented properly, they will support you and put a decent amount of pressure on him. Set him up for a poly. 

============cut here=============


Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacksö assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


----------



## badmemory

I can respect amplexor's opinion on exposure. It' certainly not as critical to do so as if this A was ongoing.

I just come from the school of thought that it's important that BS's accept consequences for what they've done - and exposure is a key consequence. They accept this exposure to demonstrate their remorse, to make them think twice about doing this again, and for you not to have future regrets for rug sweeping (at least partially)the full cause and effect; for not testing their remorse to the fullest.

I'm in R myself and I have some of those regrets for not exposing more than I did. That said, I'm not you and my wife's A was a long term PA. 

You'll get various opinions on exposure from different posters. Just giving you my take.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Wow, you guys do understand! It really is a lonely feeling and I've only talked to 2 friends about it so far. At this point I don't feel like exposing it would be beneficial, neither of our families live close and we see them only a few times a year. The one friend I talked to, her husband is a good friend of his as well and went through something similar. They are going to meet this weekend which I think will be good. Other than work acquaintances he doesn't have many guy friends around here, they are all back in NY where he is from.

Thank you all for your kind words, I will be reading and rereading them while I'm trying to understand and heal myself. I'm still just feeling so hurt and overwhelmed so it's reassuring to read all your responses.


----------



## kalimata

Hi - It sounds very strange that your WH would have hour long phone conversations with a woman for 3-4 weeks and never meet up with her.

It sounds like he is hiding the full extent of the affair from you. How does he know this woman? Old girlfriend perhaps? Is she married? If not does she have a BF?

Affairs are like crack cocaine. Your husband is addicted to the affair, and he is withdrawing from crack. His 'bad days' will eventually mean that he breaks down and calls the OW. You need to keep in mind that your WH will probably try to take this affair deeper underground. 

The easiest way to kill the affair is to expose to the OW's husband/BF. A full blown exposure might not be the best in this case. But if you find out later that he is not telling the full truth then you have reason to consider other options.

Don't take his word for it, start monitoring (VAR, keylogger, etc)
Ask him to send a NC letter to the OW (you need to witness)
Cancel all of his electronic accounts, and you need to have the passwords

Sorry you are here


----------



## MattMatt

hurtinginohio said:


> I don't know if I'd call it an emotional void, but we did get to the place where we both went to bed with our ipads and the tv on. We both work full time jobs and have long commutes our every day life did start getting stale. We do a lot of traveling and always have a great time on trips, then settled back into a routine. He changed jobs just over a year ago and has a LOT more down time, therefore more time to think and over analyze things.
> 
> We are seeing a counselor tomorrow afternoon, so that's a good step in the right direction.
> 
> I do love him and I will fight to make this work. I guess I'm just confused why he thinks I should care or feel sorry for him in dealing with his feelings for someone else?


iPads and TV? Together? Strikes me as being romantic. And he threw that away? What a daft thing to do!

He doesn't deserve you. You do realise that, right?


----------



## hurtinginohio

kalimata said:


> Hi - It sounds very strange that your WH would have hour long phone conversations with a woman for 3-4 weeks and never meet up with her.
> 
> It sounds like he is hiding the full extent of the affair from you. How does he know this woman? Old girlfriend perhaps? Is she married? If not does she have a BF?
> 
> Affairs are like crack cocaine. Your husband is addicted to the affair, and he is withdrawing from crack. His 'bad days' will eventually mean that he breaks down and calls the OW. You need to keep in mind that your WH will probably try to take this affair deeper underground.
> 
> The easiest way to kill the affair is to expose to the OW's husband/BF. A full blown exposure might not be the best in this case. But if you find out later that he is not telling the full truth then you have reason to consider other options.
> 
> Don't take his word for it, start monitoring (VAR, keylogger, etc)
> Ask him to send a NC letter to the OW (you need to witness)
> Cancel all of his electronic accounts, and you need to have the passwords
> 
> Sorry you are here


I understand your suspicions, but I do believe he's never met her, she lives several states away. He didn't seem to care about sparing my feelings when talking about his feelings for her that I don't think he held anything in. She is married and they began chatting via Instagram over common interests and in his words, he fell hard for her. He said he didn't think she felt that way for him though and she is married. Believe me, I do check the phone records several times a day and I check his Instagram to make sure she stays blocked. I really think he was bored and here was someone who he was talking to and who gave him the time of day, and he allowed feelings to happen. When he told me about it a week ago I immediately asked for no contact & he agreed and obliged. Had she been available, I don't know if his response would have been the same.


----------



## Q tip

MattMatt said:


> iPads and TV? Together? Strikes me as being romantic. And he threw that away? What a daft thing to do!
> 
> He doesn't deserve you. You do realise that, right?


I've prohibited iPads in the bedroom. Leaves much more "us" time. Was a great idea.


----------



## Q tip

hurtinginohio said:


> I understand your suspicions, but I do believe he's never met her, she lives several states away. He didn't seem to care about sparing my feelings when talking about his feelings for her that I don't think he held anything in. She is married and they began chatting via Instagram over common interests and in his words, he fell hard for her. He said he didn't think she felt that way for him though and she is married. Believe me, I do check the phone records several times a day and I check his Instagram to make sure she stays blocked. I really think he was bored and here was someone who he was talking to and who gave him the time of day, and he allowed feelings to happen. When he told me about it a week ago I immediately asked for no contact & he agreed and obliged. Had she been available, I don't know if his response would have been the same.


Make sure OMW Knows about this if you can. He deserves to know his wife is a pig. She is no friend of your marriage or his. But focus on your H. He needs fixing.

How did he agree? Did he communicate privately? We're you there and agree to that communication..?


----------



## Q tip

He needs to understand and strengthen his very weak boundaries.

Boundaries keep toxins like this from poisoning your family. With strong boundaries, your relationship is solid and bullet proof. He needs to be aware of this at all times. 

So sorry, you've got to be so disappointed in him.


----------



## MattMatt

hurtinginohio said:


> Wow, you guys do understand! It really is a lonely feeling and I've only talked to 2 friends about it so far. At this point I don't feel like exposing it would be beneficial, neither of our families live close and we see them only a few times a year. The one friend I talked to, her husband is a good friend of his as well and went through something similar. They are going to meet this weekend which I think will be good. Other than work acquaintances he doesn't have many guy friends around here, they are all back in NY where he is from.
> 
> Thank you all for your kind words, I will be reading and rereading them while I'm trying to understand and heal myself. I'm still just feeling so hurt and overwhelmed so it's reassuring to read all your responses.


Most of us here have been cheated on, one way or another and so we do know where you are coming from.

Some of us have been your husband (the cheater) some have been in the position of you and of your husband, so there's all kinds of messed up folks, here!


----------



## Devastated an lost

I'm sorry for what you're going through. My H started out with texting & phone calls then it became a PA. I had to deal with his broken heart as well it's hard to watch them pine away over someone else, But that didn't last long & now we're focusing on us. Be glad you caught it early on. That should make it faster for him to get over it. Sometimes it helps just to have people that understand & there's lots of them here. I wish you the best of luck..


----------



## NoChoice

Okay, call me old fashioned and technically challenged but how deep can your feelings be for someone you've never physically met. Texting and talking for an hour or so a day and he's "fallen hard" for this woman. How can he be sure it's even a woman? 

Hurting, when he described his "feelings" for her did you ask him if she was in a prison somewhere. How much thought has he put into this? I am in no way belittling your situation but seriously, he is causing you all of this grief and he couldn't pic this "woman" out of a line up? Oh but you say they may have exchanged pics, whose pic did he get? He can't prove it was a picture of her even if they did exchange? Additionally, he said she did not "feel" the same for him and she is married? So him developing feelings for her was going to accomplish what exactly?

I am sorry but your H sounds very immature. This is most definitely a fantasy since your H has "fallen hard" for a disembodied voice and some text on a phone screen.


----------



## yeah_right

When my H was forced to end his "friendship" with the OW in his EA, he at first whined about how he was going to miss his "bff" (I sh!t you not, he used that term). I think it's like being on a drug and there is a withdrawl period. Or simply acting like a toddler. I was moving towards divorce because I'm not attracted to drug addicts and children.

I understand where you're coming from. We've been married over 20 years, got in a rut with kids and work. Not unhappy...just not focused on each other. You know the drill. This was a huge wakeup call. And it's true, women are hurt more by an EA. Get him to understand that while there may not have been sex, he replaced you with another woman for his emotional fulfillment. Ask him to really think long and hard how he would feel had you done the same thing to him.

You can get through this but it doesn't happen overnight. You have to monitor him for a while and make sure he "gets it". You also need time for yourself to heal. It's a betrayal that hurts to the core. 

And I agree with exposure. If you can find the OWH, tell him. I exposed to my in laws and to the OWH. Extremely effective tools to kill the affair. It's not so fun and sexy when your family is ashamed. Good luck! And be strong!


----------



## dignityhonorpride

hurtinginohio said:


> I understand your suspicions, but I do believe he's never met her, she lives several states away. He didn't seem to care about sparing my feelings when talking about his feelings for her that I don't think he held anything in. She is married and they began chatting via Instagram over common interests and in his words, he fell hard for her. He said he didn't think she felt that way for him though and she is married. Believe me, I do check the phone records several times a day and I check his Instagram to make sure she stays blocked. I really think he was bored and here was someone who he was talking to and who gave him the time of day, and he allowed feelings to happen. When he told me about it a week ago I immediately asked for no contact & he agreed and obliged. Had she been available, I don't know if his response would have been the same.


Hi hurtin, I'm also a betrayed wife. 

My husband was similarly callous with me at first, which made me believe I had the whole truth, but for months I had less than a third of the story. Just a cautionary tale.

Your husband should be trying to win you back and prove himself to you. I bet you felt neglected at times, and you didn't cheat. Not that there is any excuse for infidelity in any case.

Also, be careful about relying on instagram. There are unfortunately evidently a lot of ways for waywards to communicate without being found out.

Hang in there, take care of yourself first and foremost, and keep readi,g and posting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on

I will never forget the day at MC that the therapist told me I had to let my WW grieve over her affair relationship. My first thought was to leave MC and then something clicked, I went into rage. I battled our therapist and asked if she heard herself. I told the therapist my WW was married and that is the only relationship that should be of concern. I was stunned beyond belief that I had to sit and watch my WW grieve for the OM. As unbelievable as that sounds, in the WS mind they had a relationship and need to grieve the loss of it. I asked four different psychiatrists I know and each said yes, the WS does need to grieve their loss. While I don't buy into that it is unbelievably an unfortunate truth.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

While I completely understand anyones' fury at a cheating partner, you need to understand that they're not just grieving the OM/W,, but an entire fantasy.

The affair itself might amount to little more than half an hour at a truck stop a couple times a week. But, they're told the cràp they want to hear and the sex is rushed and erotic. So, they spend every other waking moment filling their heads with a picture perfect relationship.

This is why the net affairs and the once a week quickies are often the toughest to break.

With the longer affairs, more reality has crept in and any perfect picture has been stomped on. They come back of their own accord or get busted with varying degrees of regret.

If you bust them in the fantasy phase,, they're hurting. You've not shattered a pathetic affair, you've destroyed a dream.

DON'T feel sorry for them, but if you understand you're competing with an intricate, perfect fantasy, and not just a loser who seems to have no more to offer than you, you might feel a little better in yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks again for all your replies, I can't respond to each individually right now, but I really do appreciate all the insight. We have our first therapy appt. today at 3, so we'll see how that goes. We are meeting with her together today, then set up times to meet separately. He's very agreeable to this and it was his suggestion to also meet with her alone, so of course part of me thinks he wants to spill his guts to her and then have her validate and/or condone his feelings/actions.

I did tell him yesterday in no uncertain terms that as much as I appreciate his honesty he is NOT to discuss his "feelings" for someone else with me, that I am not responsible for his emotional baggage.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well I'm back to update. We had our first therapy session yesterday. We were both coming from work so we just met there. Anyway, just before I left work I got a text from him to call when I was on my way so I did. He wanted me to know before we went that he could not commit to me/us and thought I should know that. So, therapy went a little differently than I was anticipating. I don't know that we solved anything, she was mostly trying to figure out who we were and how we go to this place, more background stuff. Anyway, he agreed to continue and we have another appt. next week.

On the right track right? Well this morning I once again check our phone records and guess who call him just before he sent me that text. Yep, the woman from Instagram that he has "fallen for". They talked for a half hour and then he texted me. I haven't told him yet that I know. There hadn't been any contact (via phone anyway) since last Tuesday when he agreed to no contact. Yes, she called him but he chose to talk to her for 30 minutes. 

I'm just reeling right now...


----------



## badmemory

Hurting,

He's done two more things that should make you stop therapy sessions, implement the 180, and start the divorce process.

He broke contact after he said he wouldn't, and he says he can't commit to his marriage. Don't believe for a second that these two events aren't related.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

You have to figure out if it is worth the effort. He is still in the stage of infatuation, and can't tell the difference between committed love, and romantic love. Romantic love is a hormonal high similar to heroin on the brain. Until he breaks the habit, he will not work on the marriage.

Committed love is knowing your partners flaws, accepting them, working together towards goals, growing and challenging each other as individuals. Knowing this, the best way for the afair to break is to bring reality into it. If you so desire, expose to friends and family, and show them the evidence.

Start detaching from him, and protect yourself emotionally. If he can't commit, then this is not the relationship you want. If one of your standards is commitment, then he fails the test. Just seek counseling for yourself. Let him go. If he gets his act together, and if you want him back, then you can work on it. But just let him go, and let him face the consequences of his actions. Stop being his wife, and all the privilege that go with it. Go out and have fun with friends. Flirt a little bit. It will help you build self esteem. Live like your single or divorced. I guarantee that it will make him notice.


----------



## badmemory

It would appear this MC, to him, is only about buying time. Time to "decide" between the two of you. Time to explore the possibility of a future with her. 

In the mean time, you're delegated to his plan B.


----------



## yeah_right

My suggestion to you would be to expose their relationship ASAP to OWH and family. Stop MC and immediately implement the 180. Make an appointment with a divorce attorney. He needs a massive wake up call...NOW...if you want any chance to R. 

Find the strength to make the changes yourself, because he's too far in la la land right now to help.


----------



## Working1

I would not let him know you are aware of him contacting her. Keep watching and I would just say that since he is not fully committed to your marriage you are filing for divorce. See what he does. Usually they get their **** together pretty quickly when they find out you mean business. 
Once you let him know you are watching his contact with her, he will get a new phone and you will lose your ability to know what is happening. Save that exposure for later, once you put down the divorce papers in front of him, he will probably do a 180, and then you will need to watch his contact with her. Save knowing about his contact for after that.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Well I'm back to update. We had our first therapy session yesterday. We were both coming from work so we just met there. Anyway, just before I left work I got a text from him to call when I was on my way so I did. He wanted me to know before we went that he could not commit to me/us and thought I should know that. So, therapy went a little differently than I was anticipating. I don't know that we solved anything, she was mostly trying to figure out who we were and how we go to this place, more background stuff. Anyway, he agreed to continue and we have another appt. next week.
> 
> On the right track right? Well this morning I once again check our phone records and guess who call him just before he sent me that text. Yep, the woman from Instagram that he has "fallen for". They talked for a half hour and then he texted me. I haven't told him yet that I know. There hadn't been any contact (via phone anyway) since last Tuesday when he agreed to no contact. Yes, she called him but he chose to talk to her for 30 minutes.
> 
> I'm just reeling right now...


This just jerks my chain...

When I was reading the first paragraph and you said he told you he couldn't commit to you "right before" the therapy session, the VERY first thought that hit my mind is "the other woman is leading him by the nose" and I'll be DANG if the second paragraph didn't confirm that thought in seconds.... so let me tell ya a story..

Once I had evidence of the affair by my H, there was a pattern I noticed. ANYTIME right before my H was to be with me, the OW would send him a pic of herself. Every single time, like marking her territory. Tells me the other woman is VERY insecure and is trying to "secure" him for herself by getting to him before you can. And he is dumb enough to fall for it. I hear a highly manipulative woman behind this situation. 

If it were me... this is where I would educate myself and formulate my plan from there...


----------



## yeah_right

Working1 said:


> I would not let him know you are aware of him contacting her. Keep watching and I would just say that since he is not fully committed to your marriage you are filing for divorce. See what he does. Usually they get their **** together pretty quickly when they find out you mean business.
> Once you let him know you are watching his contact with her, he will get a new phone and you will lose your ability to know what is happening. Save that exposure for later, once you put down the divorce papers in front of him, he will probably do a 180, and then you will need to watch his contact with her. Save knowing about his contact for after that.


I agree with everything you wrote except waiting on exposure. At the very least I would inform OWH. She may bow out if she's getting pressure on her own marriage. We just don't know if she's as "in love" as hurtinginohio's WH.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

yeah_right said:


> My suggestion to you would be to expose their relationship ASAP to OWH and family. Stop MC and immediately implement the 180. Make an appointment with a divorce attorney. He needs a massive wake up call...NOW...if you want any chance to R.
> 
> Find the strength to make the changes yourself, because he's too far in la la land right now to help.


Yep, I would move fast on this one.

Playing time is over.

Your H needs to feel the pain of losing his family so that it rattles the affair fog away sooner than later.


----------



## Zouz

Dear ,

I really feel sorry for you ; 

I almost cheated on my wife once ; It is a long story ;EAs are sometimes very deep so be careful, It was wrong of course ; Do I regret it ?

Yes of course , especially that it ended with tragic situations harsh on all involved...

I can tell you that Majority of the times EAs are a sign of a real problem in marriage beyond sexual needs; please don't misunderstand me ; I am not here justifying any of his acts ; but for the sake of clarity please answer the following questions :

-was your marriage based on a love story or just get aquainted to each other .

-Are your desires matching ; I am sure he is HD are you LD ?

-did he ever convey desires to you but you refuse to fulfill(BJ,HJ, etc...).

-Is he a stable person or get's angry a lot .

-do you critisize him a lot?

-do you use silent treatment on him ?

-do you spend quality time together.


I am doubting that he intending hurting you by telling you the EA by himself; not all people are alike ; I did it wishing that wife would stop me from a PA ; unfortunately , she didn't real care or actually she played the role of a victim ; so I stopped myslef before that point .

What pushed me to the EA ?

-Not defending myself , I might be an jerk but I thing 17 year of argument , sexless, life ,always accusations the two ways ; a life full of silent treatment could be the cause .!

The trigger also was that she intended not celebrate my birthday while my kids are crying because she doesn't want : I was a bad boy as i requested politely to put priorities on spending for a month or two because we I am building a mountain house .

Here on TAM nobody knows you , so is he a jerk like me , or where you abusive a bit ? truth ?


----------



## hurtinginohio

yeah_right said:


> My suggestion to you would be to expose their relationship ASAP to OWH and family. Stop MC and immediately implement the 180. Make an appointment with a divorce attorney. He needs a massive wake up call...NOW...if you want any chance to R.
> 
> Find the strength to make the changes yourself, because he's too far in la la land right now to help.


This is some woman from Instagram, all I know is her name and phone # of course and the general area that she lives in, in another state. I wouldn't know how to go about contacting her husband. She posts pictures of her and her husband in Instagram and seems to be happy with him, I honestly don't think she wants my husband. He even told me that he didn't think she had those type of feelings for him, she was a "friend" that he could talk to and be open with. Well, obviously this "friend" is encouraging him to leave me and our children so he can be "happy". I KNOW he is just enamored right now, of course she is perfect, he doesn't have to pay bills with her or worry about the leaky roof with her.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Escapism


----------



## yeah_right

Blossom Leigh said:


> Yep, I would move fast on this one.
> 
> Playing time is over.
> 
> Your H needs to feel the pain of losing his family so that it rattles the affair fog away sooner than later.


Time is of the essence. I was able to cancel appointment with the lawyer because my H knew I was serious. But I caught him fairly early in the EA. 

You have to mean it. I would have divorced had he not stopped. It's not a game. This is your life, marriage and family.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> This is some woman from Instagram, all I know is her name and phone # of course and the general area that she lives in, in another state. I wouldn't know how to go about contacting her husband. She posts pictures of her and her husband in Instagram and seems to be happy with him, I honestly don't think she wants my husband. He even told me that he didn't think she had those type of feelings for him, she was a "friend" that he could talk to and be open with. Well, obviously this "friend" is encouraging him to leave me and our children so he can be "happy". I KNOW he is just enamored right now, of course she is perfect, he doesn't have to pay bills with her or worry about the leaky roof with her.


I'm not an Instagram guru but in the pics with her hubby, is there a tag to his name? Look at her followers and who follows her.

Any Instagram experts on here today with advice?

EDIT - Also, she may just be playing with him out of boredom, or because she is one of those ladies who needs to feel good about herself at the expense of others.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> This is some woman from Instagram, all I know is her name and phone # of course and the general area that she lives in, in another state. I wouldn't know how to go about contacting her husband. She posts pictures of her and her husband in Instagram and seems to be happy with him, I honestly don't think she wants my husband. He even told me that he didn't think she had those type of feelings for him, she was a "friend" that he could talk to and be open with. Well, obviously this "friend" is encouraging him to leave me and our children so he can be "happy". I KNOW he is just enamored right now, of course she is perfect, he doesn't have to pay bills with her or worry about the leaky roof with her.


I hear excuses for inaction. You know her name and city? You have her FB? Start there. It should not be hard to figure out who her husband is. 

This is going to sound harsh but it is from a good place: If you don't stop feeling sorry for yourself and start acting, your situation will only get worse. Grab your boot straps, pull them up, formulate a plan and execute it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

iwontliedown said:


> If you listened to him, didn't put down every suggestion he made, been less critical, more appreciative, shown more physical affection, created a safe place for him in the home then he wouldn't have felt the need to talk with another woman in the internet.
> 
> ANyways what are you crying about? It was only binary data that passed between them through electronic media.



He is thinking about leaving her...

Your comments are way out of line


----------



## hurtinginohio

farsidejunky said:


> I hear excuses for inaction. You know her name and city? You have her FB? Start there. It should not be hard to figure out who her husband is.
> 
> This is going to sound harsh but it is from a good place: If you don't stop feeling sorry for yourself and start acting, your situation will only get worse. Grab your boot straps, pull them up, formulate a plan and execute it.


I've looked, can't find her or her husband on FB, she has an instagram account but he doesn't. I know his name, but he seems to be one of those people who is not online. Trust me, Detective Google has been hard at work.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Should I contact HER??

I just don't know what the right thing to do is...


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



iwontliedown said:


> If you listened to him, didn't put down every suggestion he made, been less critical, more appreciative, shown more physical affection, created a safe place for him in the home then he wouldn't have felt the need to talk with another woman in the internet.
> 
> ANyways what are you crying about? It was only binary data that passed between them through electronic media.


AYFKM? 

Project much? 

Nothing like kicking someone when they are down to make you feel better abut your own situation, per chance?

With friends like you....


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> Should I contact HER??
> 
> I just don't know what the right thing to do is...


No! Find out who her husband is. Find a way to contact him.


----------



## Q tip

Cheaters are liars. His words have ZERO value. His actions do. His actions have shown you something.

Have him served. Expose him far and wide. If you don't know how, get a PI for a few hours to track her and Her H down. Expose to her BH. 
Goal is to bust the affair. Shame will help. Family pressure will help. 

Only then can you consider R or D. You can always cancel the D later. Keep the D proceedings active use it as leverage. You can move fromR to D at any time. Next week or 10 years from now.

His adolescent attraction to a new person overwhelms him. Ruin it for him. He will hate you for it for a while, stifling his childishness (his drug is all on, he's addicted to it) but he'll come around if he is fixable. If not, HIS actions will tell you all.

Put her on Cheaterville.com. Spread the word. Use facts and truth there. Don't exaggerate. Oh, and deny any knowledge of CV. Write it so it is not clear who wrote it.


----------



## badmemory

iwontliedown said:


> If you listened to him, didn't put down every suggestion he made, been less critical, more appreciative, shown more physical affection, created a safe place for him in the home then he wouldn't have felt the need to talk with another woman in the internet.
> 
> ANyways what are you crying about? It was only binary data that passed between them through electronic media.


And if they had sex you would probably say - it's only brief physical contact, why get worked up about it?


----------



## Q tip

Plan and act now. Fast. Take the power back. This is chess not checkers. 

If you want to dump him, also act fast.

Get an STD test for shock and awe.

Lawyer up. Get a barracuda with an excellent record


----------



## yeah_right

Q tip said:


> Cheaters are liars. His words have ZERO value. His actions do. His actions have shown you something.
> 
> Have him served. Expose him far and wide. If you don't know how, get a PI for a few hours to track her and Her H down. Expose to her BH.
> Goal is to bust the affair. Shame will help. Family pressure will help.
> 
> Only then can you consider R or D. You can always cancel the D later. Keep the D proceedings active use it as leverage. You can move fromR to D at any time. Next week or 10 years from now.
> 
> His adolescent attraction to a new person overwhelms him. Ruin it for him. He will hate you for it for a while, stifling his childishness (his drug is all on, he's addicted to it) but he'll come around if he is fixable. If not, HIS actions will tell you all.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:I agree with all of this 150%. 

Exposure and threat of D killed my H's EA. He was whiny and we were damaged for a while but we are better today than we have been in years. 

Had I waited much longer or took no action, I know I would be divorced today. Plain and simple.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Zouz said:


> hurting ohio ,
> I know you are hurt now ; and yes you have all the right to do what all other are advising you to do ; but you need to answer please questions below to save your marriage ; you want him to stay at the end right ? or you want an excuse to divorce him ?
> 
> 
> 
> -was your marriage based on a love story or just get aquainted to each other . Not sure I follow this
> 
> -Are your desires matching ; I am sure he is HD are you LD ? Again, don't understand
> 
> -did he ever convey desires to you but you refuse to fulfill(BJ,HJ, etc...). No, I've never denied him anything.
> 
> -Is he a stable person or get's angry a lot . very stable, we never fight
> 
> -do you critisize him a lot? I have at times
> 
> -do you use silent treatment on him ? no
> 
> -do you spend quality time together. yes, lots



I'm not looking for an excuse, I DON'T want our marriage to end.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Zouz said:


> hurting ohio ,
> I know you are hurt now ; and yes you have all the right to do what all other are advising you to do ; but you need to answer please questions below to save your marriage ; you want him to stay at the end right ? or you want an excuse to divorce him ?
> 
> 
> 
> -was your marriage based on a love story or just get aquainted to each other .
> 
> -Are your desires matching ; I am sure he is HD are you LD ?
> 
> -did he ever convey desires to you but you refuse to fulfill(BJ,HJ, etc...).
> 
> -Is he a stable person or get's angry a lot .
> 
> -do you critisize him a lot?
> 
> -do you use silent treatment on him ?
> 
> -do you spend quality time together.



She doesn't "want" an excuse to divorce him.

She doesn't "need" to answer the questions below in order to "save her marriage." Your questions don't carry that kind of power to them.

And several of your questions are out of line.


----------



## Zouz

yeah_right said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:I agree with all of this 150%.
> 
> Exposure and threat of D killed my H's EA. He was whiny and we were damaged for a while but we are better today than we have been in years.
> 
> Had I waited much longer or took no action, I know I would be divorced today. Plain and simple.


because cheaters are liars , you shouldn't generalize , what works in one situation doesn't work with all others .

I am with all precautions suggested , and harsh rules op should not perform actions now just observe now and record facts.

Exposure will kill so many things along the way ....to win back her husband , expose OW but not husband ... she should wait for more clues to see how far did it go ; because believe me , you all know nothing yet .

beleieve me .
she should prepare for the worse ; the fact that he told her the story was to tell you I am hurting you back .


----------



## Q tip

If you post to Cheaterville, they have an email service. You could send it to her and to her H too. Wow. Fireworks for sure. No telling how many dudes she's worked already.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Q tip said:


> If you post to Cheaterville, they have an email service. You could send it to her and to her H too. Wow. Fireworks for sure. No telling how many dudes she's worked already.



Very real possibility she has multiple men on the line... my H's OW did. One of the men was her own husband's brother.

And thus came my leverage :FIREdevil:


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> I'm not looking for an excuse, I DON'T want our marriage to end.


Hurting, there's at least one poster that suggests that since this isn't physical, that it's on-line only; you would be over reacting to follow this advice.

Had this been a situation where there was no continuing contact and with full commitment and remorse from your husband, I'd agree. But that's not the case.

Don't let anyone convince you that this cyber relationship, combined with these other issues isn't a divorce worthy betrayal by your husband.

He needs a wake up call. Find your anger and give him one.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

Blossom Leigh said:


> And thus came my leverage :FIREdevil:


I don't know what it is about them, but things that come thusly are always particularly gratifying. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Flying_Dutchman said:


> I don't know what it is about them, but things that come thusly are always particularly gratifying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh my my and how gratifying it was...:iagree:


----------



## Zouz

blosom , yeah_right hold your horses a bit,

hurtinginohio ,

I cheated on my wife once , I know how cheaters work , your husband cheated on you and deserve all kind of anger from you ; but I am trying to say is that knowing that he exposed it to you this way means that he either intend to punish you/hurt you for a reason we don't know or he is preparing for an exit plan .

beleiev me if you want a winning end ; you need to think a lot and act a little .

because you love him and you want a husband at home to stay not a pet ; avoid furios actions now ; prepare yourself also for the worse because he you didn't get all the truth yet !

I bet he was either close to a PA ( if hadn't done it yet ) or preparing for one .

All the bullish* about he is leaving her is not credible ...
you want me to continue or shall I exit this thread ?
you have the choice just tell me .


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Zouz said:


> blosom , yeah_right hold your horses a bit,


:rofl::rofl::rofl: ohhh... that's so funny... hmm... umm.. no


----------



## turnera

Not surprising that cheaters don't believe in exposure.


----------



## yeah_right

Zouz said:


> blosom , yeah_right hold your horses a bit,


Well, Blossom and I are former BS's who have successfully ended our husband's EA's and are working to improve our resuscitated marriages. I think we are qualified to offer advice to Ohio. 

I've not read your story Zouz, so I don't know how your wife dealt with your infidelity, or if it was even PA or EA. But I assure you that I understand what Ohio is feeling more than you ever could. A WS can never truly fathom the shock and pain of a BS.

Whether or not Ohio's H received the requisite number of BJ's over the years is irrelevant. Her marriage today is broken. The first step is to remove the OW. Without that, there is no chance for R. Once the OW is gone, then Ohio and her H can do the hard work to figure out whether or not their marriage can be saved.

Exposure works. The OW should be exposed but more importantly, the WH should be exposed. He is the one who has broken his vows. "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." - Robert Louis Stevenson


----------



## Zouz

Dear , 

It is very tuff I know,

The other women should be stopped; all what I am saying is that be careful that our cheater could be doing all this as a preparation for an exit plan ; you are getting in from BS perspective ( sorry U have all gone through this)- but you need to understand that there is a cause for everything in life ; was he a cheater before ;OP didn't show that he was.
why the dragon woke up now ; all what I am saying there should be an execution plan that secure the disconnection ; least damage to BS and restrictions but not necessarily humiliation for Cheater .

i am not accusing Ohiolady , but none of us is there for details .

Your case is different maybe , he is a serial cheater maybe 



Regarding my story , it is simple :

Married for 17 years from a respectful , beautiful women , great mother , but she is so lazy to an extent that she will wake me up to hand a cup of water for her that is 3 feets away from her though she knows that when I wakeup I never go back to sleep because I am tinnitus sufferer. 

we have , 3 kids ,for 16 years I did everything , she never ever cleaned a bathroom because she hates it ; I help her ; secured whatever I can secure to her , registered a house on her name to make her feel better ; 
when I saw her tired from doing her 50% I got her a helper to dod everything for us , literaly everything ; yet she enjoys making me feel begging for a vanilla .

for your info I never ever got A BJ , the thing i always dreamt in .
for her it has been allways vanilla or vanilla on top if I was a good guy once in a blue moon .


I have never ever thought about cheating on her ; I stayed faithfull 16 years , for 16 damn years I used to travel a lot , to place were adultery is so cheap and tempting ; where you can get a virgin for 20 $ ; I never even though about cheating on her ; the maximum I did was watching a treptise show; and one time I put 10$ in her boobs 

on my birthday a year back she ignored me to an extent that she banned the kids from celebrating my bdate ; just because I politely requested explanation on financial status .

she claim she loves me , and in front of ppl she is the perfect wife .
I did everything , everything to make her happy.

for 16 damn years I made sure that she doesn't wake up at night to check a sick child because next day she will have headache.

Even when I attempted to cheat , I urged her to take things easy because I am traveling a lot during that period ; and I want to think only about her .
she ignored it .

I was on a business trip , met a lady I knew 20 years back ; came to know that she had her 4th cancer over years , 1st matestoctomy, 2nd uteris , 3d pancreas, 4th lymphnodes ; and now she is approaching death ; she is 6000 miles away 

she prepared for a special event during that trip and surprised me ;The jerk I am ran away on that night , literally left her taking another plane ! , escaped to his wife ; and told her everything ; gave her all passwords , gave her all deatils ...

I wanted to win her heart again , and was feeling guilty .
she stayed the same lazy women ; didn't move an inche ; 
she confirmed to me that the affair is behind us and that we crossed it ; but she can't change ; she suggested I go for open marriage from my side because she doesn't feel any desire .

I don't blam her for being LD or asexual ; what I blame her now only for is her continuous rejection to get treatement or consultancy .

She is BPD , she would love me one or two days and then Puff with no reason or a silly thing ; i am a stranger .
now are still together for kids .


SO PLEASE PLEASE , 

I know I'm not perfect
-and I don't live to be-
but before you start pointing fingers...
make sure you hands are clean!”


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Um, correction... Blossom is a BS ...AND a WS, so my advice is never from just one side of infidelity.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well from this point forward I will be implementing the 180. I may need to lean on you guys to keep me strong.

Our daughter is in a huge dance production this weekend, so I'm trying to just keep it together so I can be supportive of her.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> Well from this point forward I will be implementing the 180. I may need to lean on you guys to keep me strong.
> 
> Our daughter is in a huge dance production this weekend, so I'm trying to just keep it together so I can be supportive of her.


Good. You can do this. Bring your frustrations here and steel your will.

You've got this.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I've also resolved to stay off all social networking, my goal is for a week then go from there. It's a terrible addiction that he & I both have, although he won't admit it's an addiction.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Showing great strength OP :smthumbup:


----------



## dignityhonorpride

farsidejunky said:


> Good. You can do this. Bring your frustrations here and steel your will.
> 
> You've got this.


Chiming in with support! 

Good luck with your avoidance of social media. I think there are apps you can download to block you from accessing FB, twitter, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Zouz said:


> Sure go with 180 ,
> make sure that you destroy everything well ...
> 
> i won't waste my time on advsing you .
> 
> some people never listen .
> go listen to them , they will lead you to where they are .
> you will have anew pet + might run away .
> 
> enjoy


All the subtlety of a German jazz band.


----------



## yeah_right

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> All the subtlety of a German jazz band.


Your comment reminded me of this video -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlATOHGj9EY

Sorry for the threadjack!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

LOL!!!!!! Just guilt and shame her how bout it Zouz. 

Lets just layer that right on top of her BS pain.

Good grief.

Trust me, my H is no pet. The gorgeousness of his soul inspite of his struggles won't allow it and he has amazing backbone. He surrounds himself with strong Godly men and bows his head to God, not me. His focus is gratitude to God for me and we have healthy accountability and a great support system. We have made AMAZING strides because we have both put the work into it. And lean on Christ.

OP I was encouraged to hear you gaining strength already.


----------



## Observer

It's weird how open he is with you about his feeling for the OW. There appears to be an extreme lack of care for your feelings, which if you love someone, that is odd... where is the remorse? Everyone makes mistakes, and I do not think once a cheater, always a cheater is applicable to all, but I'm sorry, in your husbands case, it does not sound like he truely regrets what he did. Besides, now that you found out, I'm not sure you could ever get over that. Trust is the most important thing in a marriage, how could you ever trust him again? Especially if he does not really see what he did was wrong...you will end up in the same situation in the future. Good luck OP, that is a tough situation. I had my ex cheat on me and know how you feel.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well I got an email this morning from him with this link, he said it outlines exactly how he's feeling.

"Five Regrets of the Dying" by Bronnie Ware

But don't we all from time to time??? We're only human. He's all about not having any more regrets in life, but he's not seeing that down the road THIS will be the biggest regret of his life.


----------



## turnera

My dad dumped my mom, thinking only of all the sexy ass he was gonna get once he was single. Only to find out younger women wouldn't have a guy in his 30s and the only women who'd have sex with him were divorced middle age women with kids. He tried to come back once he figured that out. My mom told him to go to hell.


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> Well I got an email this morning from him with this link, he said it outlines exactly how he's feeling.
> 
> "Five Regrets of the Dying" by Bronnie Ware
> 
> But don't we all from time to time??? We're only human. He's all about not having any more regrets in life, but he's not seeing that down the road THIS will be the biggest regret of his life.


I'd like to add two more to that list:

6. The regret that I continued to waist more years of my life in a false R, with a spouse that wasn't remorseful about cheating.

7. The regret that I cheated on my spouse and threw my marriage away for a fantasy.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> Well I got an email this morning from him with this link, he said it outlines exactly how he's feeling.
> 
> "Five Regrets of the Dying" by Bronnie Ware
> 
> But don't we all from time to time??? We're only human. He's all about not having any more regrets in life, but he's not seeing that down the road THIS will be the biggest regret of his life.


Un****ing believable. 180 should be your MO at this point. And it is now time to expose far and wide; family and friends need to be aware of his behavior.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio,

He is crying in his milk that everyone is being so unfair to him. Babyish. When HE chose to commit to you as a husband that comes with inherent responsibilities. A mature man embraces that responsibility and seeks to have himself, his bride and their offspring thrive mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually under his care and his wife embraces supporting him as a partner in that goal. He has abandoned you. This email he is sending is telling you he is not interested in embracing husband role to you. It is manipulation designed to illicit sympathy and guilt. Is there some part of truth in what he is trying to communicate, maybe, but his intent today is not to speak his truth, but to manipulate. He is justifying his choices when there is no justification. Major gap in his integrity. 

I would either choose to ignore it, not internalize it and focus on my own healing today and or also set a boundary to him that states "I will not be accepting manipulation and justification for your choice to abandon me and our family(can't remember if you have kids) therefore I am asking you to refrain from such behavior, going forward I will only be discussing the children and their needs and not justifications for your choices."

Cheering you on ...

BL


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



Blossom Leigh said:


> "I will not be accepting manipulation and justification for your choice to abandon me and our family(can't remember if you have kids) therefore I am asking you to refrain from such behavior, going forward I will only be discussing the children and their needs and not justifications for your choices."


This is perfect. I would send this to him verbatim.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks, I just replied to that email with that, just worded a little differently because he would know if I c&p something.

I won't lie, I'm feeling tremendous pain and loss right now, I feel like I'm drowning. I don't know how I'll get through today.

I also did send an email to both his parents, basically letting them know I'm fighting for this to work and if it doesn't, it's because of him and him alone. I don't expect a reply, he's an only child who can do no wrong, so I'm not sure if it will do any good, but I felt like I had to lay out my feelings.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks, I just replied to that email with that, just worded a little differently because he would know if I c&p something.
> 
> I won't lie, I'm feeling tremendous pain and loss right now, I feel like I'm drowning. I don't know how I'll get through today.
> 
> I also did send an email to both his parents, basically letting them know I'm fighting for this to work and if it doesn't, it's because of him and him alone. I don't expect a reply, he's an only child who can do no wrong, so I'm not sure if it will do any good, but I felt like I had to lay out my feelings.


Excellent!

If at anytime you are hurting too badly today tell anyone trying to talk to you about this that you need space. Reach out to a professional counselor. What you are feeling is normal at this level of betrayal. Be kind to yourself, tap into strength where you know its rock solid and protect yourself for now from damaging influences until you are stronger. Be prepared for his parents to put this on you potentially, just be ready to tell them you do not accept responsibility for him to choose an affair as a means to "cope" with marital issues. There were better choices he could have made. Also, you may be pleasantly surprised with their support. Just be prepared either way. Do you have someone you can reach out to today to lean on?


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks, I just replied to that email with that, just worded a little differently because he would know if I c&p something.
> 
> I won't lie, I'm feeling tremendous pain and loss right now, I feel like I'm drowning. I don't know how I'll get through today.
> 
> I also did send an email to both his parents, basically letting them know I'm fighting for this to work and if it doesn't, it's because of him and him alone. I don't expect a reply, he's an only child who can do no wrong, so I'm not sure if it will do any good, but I felt like I had to lay out my feelings.


You are a very strong woman. I know it hurts and I know how hard it was to send those messages. Not gonna lie, it will most likely get worse before it gets better. But it will get better!!!!

I agree with Blossom. Don't count out your in-laws. My H is a treasured only child, a prince in their eyes. His parents took my side completely and wanted to know how they could help. Tore him a new one.

Hopefully, these first few steps will be the start in breaking your H's addiction to this stupid fantasy of a girl on Instagram in another state.


----------



## hurtinginohio

This is an excerpt of what I sent his parents:

'All this started after he started talking to another woman over Instagram a month or so ago. It progressed to texts and long phone calls and he admitted he developed feelings for her. He's never met her in person, she lives in another state and is also married. He said she doesn't feel that way about him, but she is apparently contributing to and encouraging him to leave our marriage. He is in love with this "idea". I asked him to cut off all contact which he did for a week, but she started calling him again and after that is when he didn't want to continue to work on things. She has some hold on him and he is allowing an internet stranger in influence and threaten our family. These are just the facts. I know he's going through a textbook mid-life crisis and feels very confused right now, but now is not the time to make a permanent life-altering decision."


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> This is an excerpt of what I sent his parents:
> 
> 'All this started after he started talking to another woman over Instagram a month or so ago. It progressed to texts and long phone calls and he admitted he developed feelings for her. He's never met her in person, she lives in another state and is also married. He said she doesn't feel that way about him, but she is apparently contributing to and encouraging him to leave our marriage. He is in love with this "idea". I asked him to cut off all contact which he did for a week, but she started calling him again and after that is when he didn't want to continue to work on things. She has some hold on him and he is allowing an internet stranger in influence and threaten our family. These are just the facts. I know he's going through a textbook mid-life crisis and feels very confused right now, but now is not the time to make a permanent life-altering decision."


Excellent!! Very reasonable, straight forward and legit. You go Girl!


----------



## ButtPunch

Sorry to jump in late but has OW been exposed to her husband?


----------



## hurtinginohio

Have not been able to find his contact info yet.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> Have not been able to find his contact info yet.


Do we have any Instagram gurus on TAM? If so, can one of them contact Ohio to offer suggestions on finding the OWH?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I'm willing to help anyway I can... I have decent research skills, just not an expert in any particular software. Just tenacity and ingenuity


----------



## yeah_right

Blossom Leigh said:


> I'm willing to help anyway I can... I have decent research skills, just not an expert in any particular software. Just tenacity and ingenuity


Instagram and Twitter are like Greek to me. I was, however, a pretty quick study on Facebook, Name From Phone :: Home, VAR and the local appraisal district. Thank you TAM!


----------



## ButtPunch

Unless OP is 100% set on divorce and I'm not getting that vibe...Her priority #1 needs to be finding OW husband and killing this affair.


----------



## hurtinginohio

ButtPunch said:


> Unless OP is 100% set on divorce and I'm not getting that vibe...Her priority #1 needs to be finding OW husband and killing this affair.


I don't NOT want a divorce. Yes he's being a selfish dbag right now, but I also think he will snap out of it, this is so out of character for him. I'll keep working on finding out his contact info.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> I don't NOT want a divorce. Yes he's being a selfish dbag right now, but I also think he will snap out of it, this is so out of character for him. I'll keep working on finding out his contact info.


I think you have a very good chance of him snapping out of it. You are giving him the first doses of a reality check. Exposing to his parents was good. Finding the OWH will be huge. And staying strong and making him realize that he WILL lose the family if he does not end this nonsense!


----------



## hurtinginohio

yeah_right said:


> I think you have a very good chance of him snapping out of it. You are giving him the first doses of a reality check. Exposing to his parents was good. Finding the OWH will be huge. *And staying strong and making him realize that he WILL lose the family if he does not end this nonsense!*


Right now I don't think he cares if he loses us...


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> Right now I don't think he cares if he loses us...


He may or he may not hurting; but you *can't* give him the luxury of taking his time to decide. You need to know now; so that you can move on with your life and avoid wasting more of your time in a false R.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Right now I don't think he cares if he loses us...


That's because he's in the affair fog. It keeps him from seeing the truth. All he knows right now is his addiction to the high he's on from the affair and wanting to protect his access to the source of his high - the OW.

What is Disloyal Fog? | AFFAIRCARE


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> Right now I don't think he cares if he loses us...


Maybe...or maybe he just doesn't realize or believe that it could actually happen. Does he really think he's going to divorce and move to another state, while this woman gets divorced too? In this new universe are mortgage payments handled with fairy dust? Will the OW jump with joy when he presents her with dirty undies to wash? Will her children and your children hold hands around the dinner table? He is not thinking clearly!!!!

Either way, you need to know for sure. Putting you in emotional limbo is unfair.

EDIT - I was just thinking about how, after my DDay, my kids found out and told my H that if we divorced and he went to OW, they were going to enjoy their visits to his new home with her. I'm sure he experienced a knot of terror in his gut over that. They are quite creative. Point is, someone in the fog just doesn't think about practical matters of every day life with this fantasy partner.


----------



## turnera

yeah_right said:


> Maybe...or maybe he just doesn't realize or believe that it could actually happen.


The absolute best way I've seen to make this happen is for YOU to take swift action via lawyer to let him know that if he doesn't stop the cheating immediately, he will find himself divorced, paying you a lot of money, and cut out of your life. It may seem counterintuitive, but cheaters have this fuzzy logic that they'll get BOTH worlds. Once you show him swiftly that you will NOT share him nor wait, he just may wake up.


----------



## yeah_right

turnera said:


> The absolute best way I've seen to make this happen is for YOU to take swift action via lawyer to let him know that if he doesn't stop the cheating immediately, he will find himself divorced, paying you a lot of money, and cut out of your life. It may seem counterintuitive, but cheaters have this fuzzy logic that they'll get BOTH worlds. Once you show him swiftly that you will NOT share him nor wait, he just may wake up.


Yep. Worked for me, so fast that I didn't even have to go to my scheduled lawyer's appt.

Now, the months of fallout after was no picnic, but at least the OW was no longer skulking around my marriage.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I'm pretty sure he's checked out already and just wants out. Part of me wants HIM to file, let people know he was the coward.

Neither of his parents replied to me, I didn't think his mother would, but his father is a pastor and I thought he might throw me a kind word or 2.

This is a very, very lonely place isn't it?


----------



## yeah_right

If you truly believe this is the case, I think you really do need to make an appointment with a divorce attorney to learn your rights in a worst-case scenario. Even if you want him to file, you need to protect yourself. Appointments can always be cancelled, divorce paperwork can always be withdrawn. But protect yourself.

Maybe his parents are planning to speak with him first before replying. It's lonely, frustrating, sad and enraging...but it's not forever. No matter what happens, it will end up better than living this way. Hang in there!


----------



## hurtinginohio

thanks, yes he plans on going to NY to see his family for Thanksgiving next week, just him. I'm hoping and praying that during that time he can see the light of day. I don't think they would outright encourage him to leave me, but his mother will tell him to do "whatever makes him happy".


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> thanks, yes he plans on going to NY to see his family for Thanksgiving next week, just him. I'm hoping and praying that during that time he can see the light of day. I don't think they would outright encourage him to leave me, but his mother will tell him to do "whatever makes him happy".


:slap: augh,... I hate mothers like that. GROW A SPINE! is what I want to tell them. omg...


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> I'm pretty sure he's checked out already and just wants out. Part of me wants HIM to file, let people know he was the coward.
> 
> Neither of his parents replied to me, I didn't think his mother would, but his father is a pastor and I thought he might throw me a kind word or 2.
> 
> This is a very, very lonely place isn't it?


It IS lonely.

There is advantage to being the plaintiff...

Get with an attorney asap.


----------



## dignityhonorpride

Hope you are doing okay, hurtin. I know holidays can be hard to get through after a betrayal, especially when the betrayal in question has just been brought to light.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Openminded

Your taking the step of filing could wake him up. Sometimes it takes seeing a petition for divorce in front of you to make it real what you are about to lose. Right now, he has the fantasy of infatuation going on and that's his focus. Looking at a petition for divorce will make him focus in a different way. 

In my case, I wanted to be the plaintiff. I wanted to be seen as standing up for myself --- not as the victim of a cheater. I was ending an extremely long marriage against the advice and counsel of family and friends so I went it alone with no support. 

Nothing like finding out just how strong you are when everyone opposes your divorce and you do it anyway.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I haven't updated in a few days, it's been an up and down weekend. We had a fight via text on Friday and I told him not to come home that night. So, he stayed at a hotel close to where he works. Came home Saturday morning because our daughter had her big dance recital that day, two different performances. We went out to dinner together Sat. night and spent all day Sunday together, going to gym then going to our friends house for dinner and to watch football.

Anyway, all that to say we've been spending time together and talking, but only about superficial stuff, the kids, bills, the news, etc. We went to our first MC appt. last week and have another one for today at 6, but he is going alone. Part of me is glad he's going, the other half of me is terrified. I'm afraid he will look for and grasp any kind of validation for his actions. Hopefully the therapist will lay the smackdown on him and his "feelings" for someone he's never met. 

As of this morning he is still planning on heading to NY to stay with his parents for Thanksgiving, but we agreed not to say anything to our daughter until after he meets with the MC so we know the best thing to say. She is only 11 and will be very upset if he goes without us, she has no idea we are having any kind of issues at all.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I pray your H begins to get the taste of the destruction he has caused. And pray healing comes soon.


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> I'm hoping and praying that during that time he can see the light of day.


And what if he does? Let's say he "decides" to give his marriage another chance. Are you prepared to test his remorse? Are you willing to leave him if he doesn't pass that test?

Or are you afraid you might push him away again?

If so, that's no place for you to be in.


----------



## hurtinginohio

badmemory said:


> And what if he does? Let's say he "decides" to give his marriage another chance. Are you prepared to test his remorse? Are you willing to leave him if he doesn't pass that test?
> 
> Or are you afraid you might push him away again?
> 
> If so, that's no place for you to be in.


Well it doesn't look like I'll have an option. He came home from MC last night still determined he wants to leave me. He said he's not moving out any time soon, but that things are headed in that direction. He told our 11 year old daughter last night that he was leaving for NY today to spend Thanksgiving with his parents, she of course is devastated and confused. And here I am the one comforting her and reassuring her when what I really want to do is scream what a cowardly, selfish, jacka$$ he's being.

He should be gone by the time I get home from work today, I have no idea which day he plans to return. He wants to be "free", well guess what buddy, you will be free for at least these couple of days. I've been half-assing the 180 because I'm weak and I DO still love him and don't want to throw away the life we've built, but now it's on full force.

Anyone else who's "alone" this holiday weekend, feel free to pm me, we can commiserate together while imbibing in some holiday "spirits".


----------



## turnera

Your daughter is old enough to know the truth. She NEEDS to know the truth because if you create a void, when she KNOWS something's wrong, she will make up something to fill that void. And it usually involves blaming herself, because she is NOT old enough to intuitively come up with a cheating dad. Tell her he's made some bad decisions, he's invited another woman into his life, and married people can't have girlfriends, so you'll be having separate homes soon. But reiterate you both love her and it has nothing to do with her.


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> Well it doesn't look like I'll have an option. He came home from MC last night still determined he wants to leave me. He said he's not moving out any time soon, but that things are headed in that direction. He told our 11 year old daughter last night that he was leaving for NY today to spend Thanksgiving with his parents, she of course is devastated and confused. And here I am the one comforting her and reassuring her when what I really want to do is scream what a cowardly, selfish, jacka$$ he's being.
> 
> He should be gone by the time I get home from work today, I have no idea which day he plans to return. He wants to be "free", well guess what buddy, you will be free for at least these couple of days. I've been half-assing the 180 because I'm weak and I DO still love him and don't want to throw away the life we've built, but now it's on full force.
> 
> Anyone else who's "alone" this holiday weekend, feel free to pm me, we can commiserate together while imbibing in some holiday "spirits".


I'm sorry hurting.

I'll say it again. If there's any small chance for him to turn around, it will be because he knows you're not going to be there for him, waiting as his plan B. 

The 180 is good, but it's not enough. You need to beat him to the punch on filing for D.


----------



## farsidejunky

You also need to crush his fantasy about "not moving out soon". 

I would tell him that when he returms, you hope for his sake he has a place to stay because it will not be in the family home.


----------



## yeah_right

While you legally can't throw him out of his own home, you can help him be "free" by using the next few days to move his stuff from your marital bedroom to a guestroom. He is choosing to leave the marriage, and that includes the shared marital comforts. He says he's planning to leave eventually so you're simply supporting his desires. Clothes and shoes can be put in a spare closet. Toiletries in a spare bath. 

ETA - Also, if you haven't already, stop cooking for him, cleaning his clothes, buying supplies/groceries for him. Freedom means he gets to do those things himself like a big boy.

And yes, it's time to have a talk with your daughter. She's old enough to understand (I'm sure she has friends in the same boat). She needs to be prepared when he gets back because I'm sure there will be tensions in the home.

Other things on your to-do list are making an appointment with a divorce attorney and finding the OWH.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Yep, file first.

Show no mercy.

He doesn't get to call the shots now. You do.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



Blossom Leigh said:


> Show no mercy.


This should be your mantra from here forward. 

And when he questions why, no matter what the subject, your response should be, "You chose to end our family after being unfaithful".


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks everyone. There will be no filing this week due to thanksgiving so what I need from you all right now is what to do in the short term. He's on his way to his parents in NY right now, I know he will text while he's gone asking about kids, etc., how do I respond? This is what I need help with, the next few days.


----------



## yeah_right

Only answer texts that are about the kids. Keep discussion to only the kids. If you're not feeling strong about 180, don't answer any calls from him. Only texts...that are about the kids. And by discussions on the kids, I mean

WH - How are the kids today?
You - Fine
THE END

Don't answer anything about your marriage, your feelings for him, his feelings for you, his parents' opinion on the situation, OW, freedom or why aren't you answering his texts.

180. Be strong. You can do this.

And I'm not joking about moving his sh!t out of your room.

ETA - Do not call him on Thanksgiving, not even on the pretense of having him talk to the kids. He chose to leave the family for the holiday.


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks everyone. There will be no filing this week due to thanksgiving so what I need from you all right now is what to do in the short term. He's on his way to his parents in NY right now, I know he will text while he's gone asking about kids, etc., how do I respond? This is what I need help with, the next few days.


Respond to him only as absolutely necessary for the children. Start writing down an exit plan. Research attorneys and write down questions to ask him/her, start working on separating finances and think about what you want on property division. Cancel the MC appts. via voice mail. Separate his stuff from your bedroom.

Treat yourself to something special if you can. Go shopping. Spend time with friends. And just for a kick, start browsing through the dating websites. (just erase your browser history).


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I agree with telling your daughter.

Keep discussions with him to a minimum.

He can talk to the kids, but if they don't want to, don't force them. My son is very open with my H when he is upset with him. I do not suppress my childs voice as long as he is honest, accurate and respectful.


----------



## hurtinginohio

He's been sleeping in the basement off and on the past few weeks so I will just pile his crap down there. Thanks! I just need some support growing a set of balls!


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> He's been sleeping in the basement off and on the past few weeks so I will just pile his crap down there. Thanks! *I just need some support growing a set of balls!*


While you're growing yours you need to be busting his.


----------



## Amplexor

hurtinginohio said:


> I just need some support growing a set of balls!


Don't do that, it might limit your dating options later on. 

As stated above reply only to direct requests about the kids. Short and closed ended. It'll be a touch Thanksgiving but enjoy as much as you can.


----------



## yeah_right

Blossom Leigh said:


> He can talk to the kids, but if they don't want to, don't force them. My son is very open with my H when he is upset with him. I do not suppress my childs voice as long as he is honest, accurate and respectful.


I agree. Don't keep the kids from him, but he needs to be the one to put forth the effort. He needs to contact them. You don't chase him down. You don't call him. He needs to do it himself, because he's a free man, right?


----------



## farsidejunky

When you get down, come here and write it out. There is always someone in CWI. 

Read and reread "180 The Healing Heart" for reminders of how you should interact.

I can't remember if you said if you exercise or not, but start. Get up in the morning and do it. It will set the tone for the rest of your day. Run, vigorous walk, something.

Most of all, take heart in the fact that you are the honorable one in this.


----------



## VFW

I am sorry that you and your daughter find yourself in this position. There is nothing wrong with a good glass of wine, but don't over do it over the weekend. I personally, recommend that you look in the paper for events that you and your daughter can attend together that might be fun. You both could use the distraction. Don't feel that you have to immediately respond to your husband as we withdraws. He is looking after himself, you don't need to do that anymore. I highly recommend that you consult with an attorney to determine your rights. I would also look to separate your finances to protect your finances.


----------



## jorgegene

As one who was cybercheated on by my ex., I have good idea what you're going through. I just don't get it. it's a kind of temporary insanity. I mean "really, with someone you've never even met???
How do you know $hit about them???" was what I was thinking the whole time. It ain't love that's for sure. I know that with every fiber of my being.

And as far as her parents playing low key or taking his side, that's just totally wrong. If my Mom (my dad too, but especially my mom) found out I was cheating on my current wife she would kick my ever livin @ss!!. And I would deserve it too.

That's just wrong. There's something wrong with them. I know that doesn't do you any good, or this post.

sorry, I'm just pi$$ed off for you.


----------



## karole

Are you sure he is spending the whole weekend with his parents and doesn't have a meeting planned with the OW?


----------



## hurtinginohio

I do exercise, yoga & running, in fact I signed up DD & I for our first 5K turkey trot tomorrow!  so I won't be drinking too much tonight, have to be up & alert early.

Thanks again for all the support! I feel like no one IRL gets it.


----------



## hurtinginohio

karole said:


> Are you sure he is spending the whole weekend with his parents and doesn't have a meeting planned with the OW?


No I do know he's going to his parents, she lives several states in the other direction. I saw some emails from him to his high school buddy in NY about meeting up this weekend.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks everyone. There will be no filing this week due to thanksgiving so what I need from you all right now is what to do in the short term. He's on his way to his parents in NY right now, I know he will text while he's gone asking about kids, etc., how do I respond? This is what I need help with, the next few days.


Here is what I would do for the next 4 days:
Sit DD down and tell her the truth.
Find some boxes and start pulling all his stuff out of the master bedroom/bathroom and into the boxes; mark them neatly so he'll be able to live out of those boxes in another room in the house. If your house doesn't have a spare room, box it up anyway. Make him live out of the boxes.
Make some new traditions for just you and your DD; if he does end up getting his head out of his ass and comes back to the family, he'll have to be part of YOUR traditions. Your DD will cherish this either way.
If he calls, DO NOT TALK TO HIM. Hand the phone immediately to DD without a word. Do NOT let him hear your voice.
Look up do-it-yourself divorce kits and print them out. Fill yours out and leave his and yours on the kitchen counter for him to find when he comes home. In yours, ASK FOR EVERYTHING. Shock him to hell and back when he reads yours, on what he's about to lose - money, time, house, insurance, college savings, car, treadmill, BBQ pit - EVERYTHING goes on YOUR side. Make him fight for his toothbrush. And let him SEE he's going to be fighting for his toothbrush.
Call over a locksmith and change the locks. Yes, you'll have to give him a set of keys. But the SHOCK he's going to experience when he comes home and can't get in WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION the first time will send a strong message. And it will tell him that you WILL be kicking him out as soon as you legally can.
Tell your DD that you are doing these things to try to shock him out of his affair. Tell her you hope he'll get it, end the affair, and be a better person. Ask her to help you. In fact, at her age, she can do a lot. Tell her to (if she's up to it), when he calls, ask to talk to her grandma - when grandma comes on, tell grandma what he's going - in HER words - and how much it's hurting your DD. Let HIS family, over in their nice cozy storybook Thanksgiving, suffer the consequences.
Take down all pictures of him in the house and put them in his boxes. If he has any trophies or momentos that are specifically his, take them down too. Let him come home to YOUR home, not his.
Separate all his dirty clothes and put them in his boxes. DO NOT WASH THEM.
Separate any other things in the house that he would want to keep (favorite pan, favorite towel, favorite couch throw) and box them up so he can take it to his new place. This is YOU honoring HIS wishes, and helping him get there faster. How can he argue, right?

Please believe me, aside from exposing, this is the single best way to shock a cheating man out of his cake-eating. And that's what he's doing. He expects to live at home, let you mother him, run his house for him, while he screws another woman. He probably even expects you to beg to get to screw him too, so you can fight for him. Yes, this is how cheating men think. Disabuse him of that notion.

It's really good that you have 4 full days to do this. All the more shock he will experience once he comes home and you've had all this time to turn the house into YOUR house. He wants OW? Great! You deserve better than a cheating POS. He does NOT expect you to say that. He expects you to beg him, stroke his ego (among other things), make him feel WONDERFUL to have two women fighting over him.

Don't.


----------



## turnera

Oh, I just remembered something I have to share. A while back, there was a family on our street. Six kids. Man started cheating. She kicked him out, he gladly ran to his girlfriend. Comes our semi-annual neighborhood garage sale, DD and I were over at her garage looking at the treasure trove of stuff she was selling. I mean, everything! And cheap! Complete patio table set for $50. Golf clubs, $25. Like that. 

While we were standing there, in awe (I hadn't brought any money, darn it!), the husband drove up (I think someone must have called him and told him what his stbx was doing), as two men were loading his huge BBQ pit onto their truck. He comes screaming into the garage, 'What the f'ing hell do you think you're doing?!!!!!!'

She just shrugs and says 'you told me to sell the house and move on. I'm moving on.' Nothing he could do about it, he abandoned the house. He just sputtered some more and left.

One of the best things I've ever seen.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I haven't updated in a week, it's been pure hell. We didn't speak the entire 4 days we was at his parent's home, but we did text a little. He came home last Saturday and we talked and actually had a good weekend, we were both home on Monday too. Tuesday morning he kissed me good-bye when I left for work, told me I looked nice and off I went. I sent him a text around noon and didn't get a reply for 2 hours which is odd, he said O, my notifications were turned off. Something smelled fishy so I got on the verizon account and sure enough, he had been on the phone with her for almost 2 hours. I really don't think he's met her yet, mainly because he always has google maps on and I still have his google password. So far he's been where he says he's been. Ironically, his google password is a combo of my name and our anniversary date.

I flipped out and completely lost my sh!t that evening at home, I was sobbing, hyperventilating and so our daughter asked what was wrong and I broke down and told her. He wasn't home yet but I texted and told him I told her and boy did that make him furious!!!! He told me, "see that's your true colors coming out, that's the kind of person you really are". Like I should sit back, let him continue his affair and wait til it's convenient for him to have us sit down and tell her together when I'm not the one who wants out of the marriage! He's been staying at his buddy's house, a former co-worker so I haven't seen him yet since the blow up. He is coming by tonight when DD is not home to pick up some of his things, he plans to live there until he can find a place he can afford.

Does the pain ever end? I feel like I have repeatedly been punched in the gut, have lost 17 pounds in 4 weeks. In my mind I KNOW I have to take care of myself and DD and forget him, but my heart is shattered.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> I haven't updated in a week, it's been pure hell. We didn't speak the entire 4 days we was at his parent's home, but we did text a little. He came home last Saturday and we talked and actually had a good weekend, we were both home on Monday too. Tuesday morning he kissed me good-bye when I left for work, told me I looked nice and off I went. I sent him a text around noon and didn't get a reply for 2 hours which is odd, he said O, my notifications were turned off. Something smelled fishy so I got on the verizon account and sure enough, he had been on the phone with her for almost 2 hours. I really don't think he's met her yet, mainly because he always has google maps on and I still have his google password. So far he's been where he says he's been. Ironically, his google password is a combo of my name and our anniversary date.
> 
> I flipped out and completely lost my sh!t that evening at home, I was sobbing, hyperventilating and so our daughter asked what was wrong and I broke down and told her. He wasn't home yet but I texted and told him I told her and boy did that make him furious!!!! He told me, "see that's your true colors coming out, that's the kind of person you really are". Like I should sit back, let him continue his affair and wait til it's convenient for him to have us sit down and tell her together when I'm not the one who wants out of the marriage! He's been staying at his buddy's house, a former co-worker so I haven't seen him yet since the blow up. He is coming by tonight when DD is not home to pick up some of his things, he plans to live there until he can find a place he can afford.
> 
> Does the pain ever end? I feel like I have repeatedly been punched in the gut, have lost 17 pounds in 4 weeks. In my mind I KNOW I have to take care of myself and DD and forget him, but my heart is shattered.


I am so sorry, HIO. 

What a freaking hypocrite. True colors? That was rich.

He was looking for an excuse to move out. Your exposure to your daughter became the convenient excuse he needed. You did it right though. Do not question yourself on this.

Are you still running and/or working out?

Start focusing on making you a better you, and investing more time and your daughter. Find your support network and put it in place; friends, family, coworkers, and here.

I would get the divorce paperwork ready and go ahead and file if it were me.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes I agree, he was looking for an excuse. We had agreed not to do anything til the first of the year, but this gave him the opportunity he was looking for. He told me he's been unhappy for a year but funny how he never mentioned it until he started talking to her on the phone. He says he's sorry he's hurt me, but really shows no remorse. He said he was unhappy with me for so long that now it's finally his turn to be happy. I really wish I could stop loving him, I wish I could flip that switch.

edit: yes still running and doing yoga, not as much this week and I've been in a hellish nightmare.


----------



## farsidejunky

He is rewriting your marital history. That's normal in these situations unfortunately.

When you love someone deeply, there's no such thing as flipping a switch. Use that hurt to fuel your resolve and make the necessary moves to protect you and your daughters interests.

Didn't you already bring home divorce paperwork to fill out at one point?


----------



## hurtinginohio

farsidejunky said:


> He is rewriting your marital history. That's normal in these situations unfortunately.
> 
> When you love someone deeply, there's no such thing as flipping a switch. Use that hurt to fuel your resolve and make the necessary moves to protect you and your daughters interests.
> 
> Didn't you already bring home divorce paperwork to fill out at one point?


Yes, totally rewriting history! Bringing up every time I did something wrong over the years! Never told me at the time, but he sure let it out now. Basically, in his mind, I pushed him away and he found happiness somewhere else.

No papers yet but I've been talking to an attorney friend off the record.


----------



## SofaKingWeToddId

If you still want to save this you need to expose to the OW's husband asap. Hire a PI if you need to. A PI is much cheaper than a divorce.


----------



## Observer

So sad, very, very sorry for you. Stay strong, it will get better. You deserve better and you know it.


----------



## yeah_right

I am so sorry he's still in the fog. You did the right thing in telling your daughter.

Now, please follow the advice. Calm down, don't confront your WH and stick to 180. Find a divorce attorney and make a real appointment.

And tell the OWH!!!!! It's critical if you are still considering R!


----------



## jld

Please file. Let him crawl to you and beg if he wants to reconcile. You just focus on taking care of yourself and your children.


----------



## Zouz

jld said:


> Please file. Let him crawl to you and beg if he wants to reconcile. You just focus on taking care of yourself and your children.


yea , he should Crawl !
I this a marriage or what !

JLD , is this the help you are giving .


I might be missing something ; did OP proove that Hub had a PA ?
EA , what level of crime he did ?
SO that I know where I should point my Pfeh ?


----------



## turnera

I just want to point out something. He flat out thumbed his nose in your face and you let him. We advised you to get his stuff out of the house while he was gone, if for nothing else than to SHOW him that you deserve respect. You did nothing. He came back and you basically kissed his butt and tried to make up to him, thus losing any more respect he may have had for you, and you got this.

Will you at least consider that he treats you this way because you allow it? Are you ready to STOP allowing it? He doesn't deserve one SECOND of your time or attention.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I know you're right, but of course I thought after 4 days away he'd see the error of his ways so I was being cautiously optimistic. He's gone now and I've went hard core 180. He has told me the other day we'd get a tree this weekend, we've always had big live trees. He texted this morning asking if I wanted to do that today or tomorrow. I replied that I didn't think I'd have time to keep up with watering & stuff and that I was just going to get a small fake one. It may sound minor, but it's the first step in showing him I don't need him, plus he hates fake trees.


----------



## turnera

Good. Now STAND YOUR GROUND and DON'T allow him to bully his way in to get a tree. He'd only be doing it to make himself look good to your kid. He doesn't deserve that.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> I know you're right, but of course I thought after 4 days away he'd see the error of his ways so I was being cautiously optimistic. He's gone now and I've went hard core 180. He has told me the other day we'd get a tree this weekend, we've always had big live trees. He texted this morning asking if I wanted to do that today or tomorrow. I replied that I didn't think I'd have time to keep up with watering & stuff and that I was just going to get a small fake one. It may sound minor, but it's the first step in showing him I don't need him, plus he hates fake trees.


That is a start. But you are still cautiously tip-toeing around him. Stop that. Be direct. He will not like direct (too bad), but he will respect direct.

Memorize these statements and use them mercilessly:

"That really will not work for me." 

or 

"I am not okay with that ".

Then if/when he asks why:

"Because you chose to break up our family through infidelity."

Then end the conversation. 

You need to say nothing more than that.

That is how you show him to respect you. This is necessary whetherbyou choose to reconcile or divorce.

Start now.


----------



## turnera

He'd see the error of his ways in FOUR DAYS?

Think about that some more. What were you REALLY thinking? Or should I say WISHING?


----------



## hurtinginohio

Jeez take it easy, I've not been in this situation before, I don't know what to think! All I know is I don't want to dismantle this family.


----------



## turnera

The thing is, you came here for advice. That was a good first start. Because most of us has been here for years and have seen hundreds of women just like you, in the exact same situation. And yes, nearly every affair, and every cheater, is exactly the same. So when we tell you what works to KEEP a family intact, listen to us. We KNOW that trying to be nicer, sexier, will not bring him home. Kissing his ass will not bring him home. 

In fact, he SHOULDN'T come home until HE sees the horrible horrible thing he did and is READY to give you ANYTHING YOU WANT. Any man who comes home before being in THAT frame of mind is only wanting his comfort and his cake back. He doesn't get it. He's not remorseful. He's just sorry he got caught and he wishes you'd just get over it so he can go back to 'his' life. 

He doesn't get it yet. He doesn't see your hurt; only his. Four days after THROWING YOU IN THE MUD face first won't turn him around. Please believe me: the only thing that gets men like your husband back is seeing YOU ready to move on; the FEAR that you really CAN live without him.

And so far, you've given him words to that effect but no ACTIONS. And the only thing that'll wake him up is your actions of kicking his sorry ass out for daring to do this to you

I know it seems counterintuitive; you should just be able to show him how much you love him. That's why we're here, to tell you that no longer works once they've cheated. 

You can do this. You may be able to save the family. But not until you show him it's a better family without him unless he 'gets it.'


----------



## Openminded

Right now he's in the fog of infatuation and the appeal of a shiny new toy is what's really important to him. If you aren't willing to lose the marriage then it will be very difficult for you to save it. He needs to know there are strong consequences to his behavior and you aren't going to be a doormat because you are afraid to be without him. The reality of a divorce petition being filed wakes many cheaters up.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well if theres a silver lining its that I'm down 20 pounds today' lost it all in oe month. Not the healthiest way to lose' but I will keep it off!


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> Well if theres a silver lining its that I'm down 20 pounds today' lost it all in oe month. Not the healthiest way to lose' but I will keep it off!


That is good in a way. But it also tells me you might not be taking care of yourself as well.

Have you followed any of the also vice given? 180? Any interactions with the WH?


----------



## dignityhonorpride

hurtinginohio said:


> Well if theres a silver lining its that I'm down 20 pounds today' lost it all in oe month. Not the healthiest way to lose' but I will keep it off!


5lbs a week is definitely not healthy at all. Please be mindful not only of your physical health (eat some protein, some healthy fats, complex carbs; stay hydrated; sleep 8 hrs a night) but also your mental health, your self-talk, etc. Hugs 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

iwontliedown said:


> Turnera.....Everyone here agrees that it is very unwise to involve children in marital disputes. But you seem to think it is okay, And I hope its not because this is a man cheating....


Who said anything about involving children in disputes? I told her to tell her child the truth of why the child's life is being torn apart - instead of LYING to her. She has ONE parent doing that; she doesn't need both of them doing it. 

Her world is in flames and she doesn't know why. Adults whispering, adults fighting, adults leaving, and everyone pretending the kid doesn't see it. Go read some books: when children are not told the truth, they INVENT one. And, because of their age, they fill those gaps in with the only other thing they know of - themselves. Time and time again, children who are kept in the dark blame themselves for what happens to the family because the parents think they're 'shielding' the child. 

All the kid wants is the truth. If it was the mom cheating, you bet I'd be right there telling the father to tell the child the truth about her mother, in an age-appropriate way. Give them the tiny truth - your daddy has a girlfriend and we can't have boyfriends and girlfriends when we're married - and leave it at that. Nobody said anything about dragging said child into any dispute. They just want to understand what's going on.

And in this particular case - at the time that post was written - the OP was trying to get WH's family and him to see the damage he's doing. Dr. Harley specifically advises FAMILIES to pull together to stop the cheating, because it's the family that's going to fall apart if he doesn't stop. So, yes, her daughter can know that she can call her dad, tell him how unhappy she is with him, tell her grandma how unhappy she is with him...and hopefully elicit SOME sort of guilt out of him or his parents. That's how you fight affairs. This child is old enough to understand that and to want to fight to get her family back; in fact, psychologically speaking, it's preferred because she then feels that she's doing something and not just being shuffled off to the back room to shut up while the adults decide her fate. I've seen many many cases where the children took an active role in voicing displeasure of the cheating; sometimes it helped end the affair, but in all cases, it helped the child.



iwontliedown said:


> That was pure male hate. Because when I recall your other posts I do not see you giving the same advice to betrayed husbands (turning against children, destroying WW's possessions, making them beg, etc)


If you HAD bothered to read my other posts, you'd see me giving just as much hell to cheating women. In fact, of all the women posting here, I'm the one most likely to be giving men the links to NMMNG and MMSLP so they will man up and STOP letting the women walk all over them.

And I'm curious - whose possessions did I say to destroy? Must have missed that one.

And making them beg? You bet. I think ALL cheaters must beg to get their old lives back. It's the only way they will psychologically have their rock-bottom experience, which IMO is essential for even coming close to understanding what the BS went through.


----------



## turnera

iwontliedown said:


> You said "Tell her the truth". You didn't mention how to tell the truth in an age-appropriate manner. Now that I have called you out on it, that you are trying to rectify.


Oh please. Do some real research and you'll see that if it's not 2am and I'm not up with a work project and not needing to waste time writing out a book to someone like you, probably every other time I've told a WS on this or any other forum, I have used the words "in an age-appropriate manner."



iwontliedown said:


> You are asking her to seek help from the daughter and talk to her grandmother. Its plain that you are asking her to make her daughter take her side. What about dealing with own marriage problem (how severe that may be)?


No, I'm asking her to have her daughter find her voice and tell her dad and grandma HOW SHE FEELS. Do YOU think she's going to tell grammy she's glad daddy deserted her on Thanksgiving?



iwontliedown said:


> Did you even see the two links about what happens when parents involve children in their problems?


I don't have to. Because I've read more and worked on more cases and given advice to more people than you'll ever get around to, and I KNOW what works. I never told her to get her daughter in the middle of his CHEATING or any marriage problems - only to tell dad and grammy that she wants her dad home on Thanksgiving and isn't happy about what's going on.



iwontliedown said:


> And no, you never give such advices to BHs. You never ask them to throw out their WWs. I have read your posts. You atmost ask them to do 180, expose to friends and family, expose the OM to his spouse and file for divorce. But never ask them to collect their things and throw them out. And you certainly don't ask them to involve children....


Not a very effective researcher, then, are you? I've told tons of men to throw out their wives, to make them go 6 months on their own before taking them back if they so choose, to demand therapy to get to come home. And guess what? I've almost NEVER used the "180" term because that term comes from a different philosophy than what I was taught (Harley). And I'm almost the only one ON this board who tells people to separate and NOT file for divorce, so the marriage has a chance to come back. So you don't even know what I HAVE been saying. Oh well.



iwontliedown said:


> But guess what? I understand where you are coming fro, You think all men are lazy and pigs.....


Ahh, the real agenda comes out. Men against 'man-haters' seem to be uniting lately, don't they? You guys must have an active PM account going.

Carry on. *smh*


----------



## Zouz

iwontliedown said:


> We ask people who come here for help not to fall for gaslighting by their waywards. But it looks like we have some real gaslighters here on this board. They try to spin things they have said earlier into something else. Isn't this the definition of gaslighting?


The thread started by OP with "
So, my husband just a week ago admitted to having a "cyber" affair."

it could be just EA, a PA or whatever .

I tried from the begining to advise OP to follow steps that will bring this HUB back to his family without loosing her dignity ; tried to be logical ; because if every couple would destroy a family because of an affair ; only 10% of marriage will last ! 

when help is offered over TAM , it should be logical and minimizing damage ; especially to OP , now that OP proceeded with so many steps that will put fire on gaz ; is she feeling better ?

I doubt .

I advised to exposed to OW man but not to family ;I was called names at that time by some posters.

When a man cheats , and admit it by himself as the case of OP Hub , there is a hope that he will quit the OW and come back to family with least damage ; with sincere agreement between them to make things work ; now the way it has been done is Pushing him toward the OW ; there are so many ways and control points ; like partial exposure to someone in family who would also exert pressure ; not by exposing everything to a child ?

I am not saying she should be linient , nor loose her dignity , she seems to be a good wife ; but now lost in applying revenge as advised by our dear Tammers.

So Kill the baster , will definitely not bring him back .

OP , 

-is he still in an EA ? or you have prooves it went into a PA ?
-Forget about the family for a second ; do you feel that you can still love him ? 
how much details the 11 yrs old girl knows ?
and please please for the sake of the girl ; even if he is a bastard , don't feed this in her head; let her grow with the sense that my parents are not compatible rather than my dad is a bastard ...

for her sake , not his sake !


----------



## badmemory

iwontliedown said:


> And no, *you never give such advices to BHs.* *You never ask them to throw out their WWs.* *I have read your posts*.


Quite a statement considering Turnera has over 26,000 posts. I don't need to defend her, but you are absolutely, unequivocally, *WRONG*.


----------



## badmemory

Zouz said:


> is he still in an EA ?
> 
> let her grow with the sense that my parents are not compatible rather than my dad is a bastard ...


Yeah...I think it's fairly obvious that his two hour phone conversation to the OW, confirms that.

Those that advocate lying to their children to "spare" them just don't get it. There is an age appropriate way to tell the truth to any child. Children deserve to know the truth and the WS deserves for them to know it.

My mother cheated on my dad when I was OP's daughter's age. They divorced over it and she married the OM. My father never told me. I found out from someone else 20 years later. I resented them both because of it.


----------



## turnera

Same here. I found out when I was almost 50. I had grown up with a completely distorted - inaccurate - view of my family and my life. And it would have really helped me to know the truth all these years, I would have turned out a lot different and made much different choices.

And I resented my dad anyway because I had no idea why he left, so I just assumed it was because - as MANY kids do - that I wasn't a good enough kid for him to want to stay, since no one would talk about it. If I'd known the truth, I would have probably been able to forgive him a lot easier, too.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

The way I handled our son was "Your Dad has made poor choices and right now he is away working on learning to choose better. He will be back when he can consistently do so."


----------



## turnera

Perfect.


----------



## badmemory

Blossom Leigh said:


> The way I handled our son was "Your Dad has made poor choices and right now he is away working on learning to choose better. He will be back when he can consistently do so."


And there will come a time when she is older, that you can tell her what those bad choices were.


----------



## dignityhonorpride

Hope you're okay, hurtin. Read through the threadjacks  we 're all still here rooting for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

badmemory said:


> And there will come a time when she is older, that you can tell her what those bad choices were.


Correct


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well if the POS hasn't met her yet, he's planning to in the next few days. He's been google mapping directions to where she lives. He will be out of town a few days for work, closer to the direction to where she lives, within a few hours drive. So, there you have it. I KNOW I need to quit logging into his account to see his search history, all it does is torture me.

He hasn't see our daughter in a week, came by the house to get some more stuff yesterday before she got home from school. Tonight is her choir concert and he will be there. It makes my skin crawl to think of seeing him. The hurt and pain are finally turning into anger and utter disgust.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

So sad hurtinginOhio...

Focus on being their for your daughter, no more, no less. 

She is going to need you.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

hurtinginohio said:


> Well if the POS hasn't met her yet, he's planning to in the next few days. He's been google mapping directions to where she lives. He will be out of town a few days for work, closer to the direction to where she lives, within a few hours drive. So, there you have it. I KNOW I need to quit logging into his account to see his search history, all it does is torture me.
> 
> He hasn't see our daughter in a week, came by the house to get some more stuff yesterday before she got home from school. Tonight is her choir concert and he will be there. It makes my skin crawl to think of seeing him. The hurt and pain are finally turning into anger and utter disgust.




It is like what I posted on your other thread, it is the infatuation stage, and it clouds judgement. But still he is responsible for his actions. Since you and him are notworking on the bond, and it is starting to break down on your side, you will get more angry at his disrespect, and bad behavior. Your love will fade fast, so just keep the evidence you have, expose him if you wish, and show him not to be this great guy if you want. 

Remember to keep the focus on you and your kid. Do things with your daughter and bond deeply with her. Now that you don't have to focus on a relationship, you will notice that the other bonds around you can deepen, and grow stronger. There is more time and energy available to you. 180 his a$$. His consequences are the withdrawal of your love and support. Be happy without him, and show him he does not have power to make you miserable for long, and that he is not some prize you need. Who needs a defected person like that in your life. You rather find someone with strong moral character traits.


----------



## Openminded

Time by yourself gives you the opportunity to think and plan. I've been there and I know the difficulty you are going through. I'll be keeping good thoughts for you.


----------



## yeah_right

If there was ever a time to inform the OWH, it's now...before they meet up.

I am so sorry you're going through this.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

yeah_right said:


> If there was ever a time to inform the OWH, it's now...before they meet up.
> 
> I am so sorry you're going through this.


That would be ideal.


----------



## turnera

yeah_right said:


> If there was ever a time to inform the OWH, it's now...before they meet up.


Seriously. At LEAST help the OWH out.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Trust me, I wish I could! all I have is HER cell phone number, I've even paid on some sights to get contact info for him, no luck.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Does he have a facebook page?

Can you see where he works on it?


----------



## yeah_right

You can PM me (and I'm guessing Blossom and others would offer the same) and I will try to help you find him. Facebook, local appraisal district website if you have the city she's in, websites like Name From Phone :: Home to get the name from the phone number. In this day and age, no one can hide.


----------



## Openminded

What about calling a PI to do a quick search on him?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

yeah_right said:


> You can PM me (and I'm guessing Blossom and others would offer the same) and I will try to help you find him. Facebook, local appraisal district website if you have the city she's in, websites like Name From Phone :: Home to get the name from the phone number. In this day and age, no one can hide.


I've definitely offered and that remains an open invitation.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well thanks to a few super sleuths that found him on FB, I did send a message to him. It looks like he hasn't been active for some time, but I went ahead and sent it. I paid the $1 to make sure it goes directly to his inbox so hopefully that is attached to an email he still uses. I'll keep you all posted!


----------



## yeah_right

Try that phone number too, even if you do it from a pay phone. Good luck!!!!


----------



## hurtinginohio

I just got a text from WH that said he called Verizon and had it all set up to split our account. He had been talking about separating our account for "work purposes" since his are expensed. I shouldn't have replied at all, but he sent 3 different texts so I just said, at work, talk later. He replied, that's fine. Damn right it's fine a$$hole, you're playing by MY rules now!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Righteous anger...


----------



## yeah_right

Calmly explain to your WH that you don't want to split any accounts or finances without the approval of your attorney...


----------



## badmemory

Read the 180 again hurting. You are now a female version of Mr. Spock.


----------



## Trying95

I have been lurking on these boards for a couple of years, actually joined last year. My H had an EA after our 16th anniversary and I lost my job of 11 years. I wish I had found these boards at that time. I did many of the things you shouldn't do but he told me what drew him back to me emotionally was when I started taking care of myself and stopped kissing his butt. I had to figure it out on my own though and after many tortuous months. So do focus on yourself, what makes you feel good and your daughter. Our daughter was the same age yours is now when my marriage exploded. She unfortunately heard the phone calls with the other woman and the late night fights..they were horrible. Let your daughter know that she is still very much loved by both parents but don't try to hide from her if she asks questions. They know. Please make sure you document everything in his google account that may be useful. Also, use his Google mapping to try to track down address for OWH.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Ugh, well he came to the concert last night and we then all took DD to get a bite to eat because she was hungry. He was of course nice and kind, etc. but when I checked the phone records he was calling & texting her up until the concert and started again the minute he walked out the door. 

As you all advised I tried to contact her husband but wasn't able to. I did however find FB pages for her 2 adult children so I just sent them both messages that I had some information for their father could he please call me. I noticed that the daughter read the message but didn't reply, so I just sent another message that said I had proof her mother was involved with my husband and I thought her father deserved to know. She immediately texted back, do not message me again. 

So, what have I done???? Keep in mind these are adult children in college. Maybe I over stepped the boundaries, but it was truly a last resort. I still believe they are planning to meet tonight. At this point I've done what I can do, I think it's time to throw in the towel. I don't even think I want to reconcile anymore, but I want this affair to blow up in both their faces. So what if I pissed off her daughter? I have an 11 year old at home crying for her daddy and cannot understand what is going on. I'm just waiting for the backlash from him later today...I know it's coming, but I don't plan to reply to anything from him.


----------



## hurtinginohio

He just tried to call me, I didn't answer. Got a text from him that said "call me now". I will not.


----------



## jld

Maybe the girl told her mom, and her mom told your husband.

I would just focus on the divorce now.


----------



## hurtinginohio

jld said:


> Maybe the girl told her mom, and her mom told your husband.
> 
> I would just focus on the divorce now.


I know that's what happened, he is furious, sending me texts that what I did is fvcked up. I'm at work, shaking right now.


----------



## karole

I wouldn't talk to him. All he is going to do is gaslight you - explain how they are just friends and they are doing nothing inappropriate. He may then tell you that you have just ruined any chances of ever reconciling with him. Don't listen to any of it. It's what all cheaters say and do. I know it's hard, but just hang in there. You did the right thing so do not let him make you second guess yourself.


----------



## jld

Just focus on the divorce. 

You are a nice person and your husband is not.


----------



## karole

Turn your phone off HIO, don't talk to him. He is just going to spew vile at you, blame you and make you out to be the bad guy. He won't accept any responsibility. He's just angry he's been exposed.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I guess he's entering the "monster" stage that I've read about.


----------



## jld

If I were you, I would probably tell the world what he has done. Just blow the whole thing up. You'll get some support. And I think you need it.

I don't know if that's good advice or not but it's probably what I would do if I were married to a guy like that. Right after I called a divorce lawyer. No going back now. 

And really, why would you want to? You deserve so much more.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

karole said:


> Turn your phone off HIO, don't talk to him. He is just going to spew vile at you, blame you and make you out to be the bad guy. He won't accept any responsibility. He's just angry he's been exposed.


:iagree:

Do not absorb his abuse, insulate yourself from it.

Stay safe... Massive strong hugs and support!!


----------



## karole

Have you told his parents HIO? I would call them and let them know. You need to do this before he has a chance to spin his side of the story and make you look like the bad guy. Please do not feel bad about what you have done, you did the right thing. He and the OWPOS deserve whatever they get.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

He is out of town right?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

They will reap what has been sown... not exposing makes you complicit in it.. Shine that light bright. BUT STAY SAFE... Do you fear physical violence in your situation?


----------



## jld

Yes, tell his parents, in person, if possible.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes he is out of town until Friday, but he's not living at the house anymore anyway. No, he's not a violent person, but this is probably the most angry I've ever seen him, even if it's just over text.

Now, the OW will have to concentrate on the fallout in her own family. Yes, the two POS cheaters deserve each other.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I'm glad he is out of town right now... VERY SMART MOVE

And by the time he gets back I would have circled my troops around me as to not face him alone.... 

I would not allow him easy access to me

And I might would even be gone out of town when he gets back so that this thing has a chance to cool WAY down before he has access to you.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> Yes he is out of town until Friday, but he's not living at the house anymore anyway. No, he's not a violent person, but this is probably the most angry I've ever seen him, even if it's just over text.
> 
> Now, the OW will have to concentrate on the fallout in her own family. Yes, the two POS cheaters deserve each other.


Good. I am glad he is mad. 

I wouldn't worry about the OW's family. The daughter knows and is devastated. It will get out.


----------



## jld

I hope he has _no_ access to you other than email.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> I know that's what happened, he is furious, sending me texts that what I did is fvcked up. I'm at work, shaking right now.


What YOU did is fvcked up?! 

Not THAT is rich.

Ignore him. Let him enjoy his consequence.

This is exactly what exposure is FOR, hurting. That's why it works - it SUCKS to be him right now!

And please finalize - call his parents and his siblings. Tell him he's meeting up with his AP this week and you've had enough of his crap. Tell them that because you told the OW's adult daughter, HE has the nerve to be mad at YOU. And then tell them all that if they don't rein him in, he'll find himself with a restraining order.

This is your ONE chance to be strong and turn it all around.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yep, by contacting her daughter. Trust me, I would have preferred to contact the husband, but that wasn't panning out. I did what I thought I needed to do. I got this text from him "we are done, no therapy, no separation, it's divorce now".


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> What YOU did is fvcked up?!
> 
> Not THAT is rich.
> 
> Ignore him. Let him enjoy his consequence.



He is the one who made the choice of adultery that started this tsunami of consequences headed his way. Any comment to you in blame is blameshifting and you do not have to receive that.


----------



## yeah_right

I went through this phase when I exposed my H's EA. Boy oh boy was my H P!SSED OFF!!!! It was crazy and surreal. The way he acted, his texts....crazy stuff. This is to be expected. 

Exposing to the OW's grown kids is fine. If they're like my kids (and they are in the same age ranges BTW), they won't be happy about it and will let their mom know. My kids found out on their own (wasn't originally planning to tell them) and their reproach was actually very helpful in helping my H clear his head. No man wants their kids to be ashamed of him.

Your H is not home, so don't answer his calls and texts. And if you haven't already, please, please, please make an appointment with a divorce attorney...NOW!!!!!

ETA - Ditto on the suggestion to CALL his parents.


----------



## turnera

And spend this week boxing up every last belonging of his. When he gets back in town, let him SEE that he's no longer part of your family (unless he does a lot of groveling).

Please trust me, this is what he has to see in you - strength and outrageous ANGER - if you ever want any hope of getting him to quit cheating. I know what I'm talking about. Men who cheat typically want to keep eating cake, keep both women on the line; it feeds their ego. 

You removing that option makes YOU more enticing the OW who is kissing his butt.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> Yep, by contacting her daughter. Trust me, I would have preferred to contact the husband, but that wasn't panning out. I did what I thought I needed to do. I got this text from him*"we are done, no therapy, no separation, it's divorce now"*.


Yes! Excellent! Hallelujah! Deliverance! :smthumbup:


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Yep, by contacting her daughter. Trust me, I would have preferred to contact the husband, but that wasn't panning out. I did what I thought I needed to do. I got this text from him "we are done, no therapy, no separation, it's divorce now".


Reply back. Immediately.

"Thank God. I am SO done with the cheating lying piece of sh*t that you've become. DD and I deserve a better man than that in our lives. Send me the papers."


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Yep, by contacting her daughter. Trust me, I would have preferred to contact the husband, but that wasn't panning out. I did what I thought I needed to do. I got this text from him "we are done, no therapy, no separation, it's divorce now".


Emotional abuse.

"I'm punishing you now... how dare you expose my sin."


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> Yep, by contacting her daughter. Trust me, I would have preferred to contact the husband, but that wasn't panning out. I did what I thought I needed to do. I got this text from him "we are done, no therapy, no separation, it's divorce now".


Ignore. He's like a toddler throwing a tantrum. Whether you end up divorcing or not, please know that you did the right thing.


----------



## jld

Turnera, I totally disagree with her mind ever turning back to him. I think he needs to be out of her life, forever. Period.


----------



## yeah_right

turnera said:


> And spend this week boxing up every last belonging of his. When he gets back in town, let him SEE that he's no longer part of your family (unless he does a lot of groveling).
> 
> Please trust me, this is what he has to see in you - strength and outrageous ANGER - if you ever want any hope of getting him to quit cheating. I know what I'm talking about. Men who cheat typically want to keep eating cake, keep both women on the line; it feeds their ego.
> 
> You removing that option makes YOU more enticing the OW who is kissing his butt.



YES to this! You didn't do it at Thanksgiving, but now it's go time. Put all his sh!t into contractor size trash bags. You are in charge now, not him. He's not in the marriage, so he is NOT in charge anymore.

EDIT - In addition, box up his dirty underwear and mail it to OW with laundry instructions. That's her job now.


----------



## turnera

yeah_right said:


> Your H is not home, so don't answer his calls and texts. And if you haven't already, please, please, please make an appointment with a divorce attorney...NOW!!!!!


And as soon as you get the papers, even if they're blank, EMAIL him a copy.

hurting, please trust me. If you want him back, you simply MUST show him an angry, furious no-holds-barred face right now. There's time to talk later. But the ONLY marriages I've seen saved when the man cheats, happened when the woman was a woman scorned and scared the CRAP out of the man that he'd really lost her. He never thought he had; his most recent words proved that; he KNEW you were sitting around waiting for him to offer MC, discussions and another chance.

Please don't chicken out. Call his family NOW before he gets to them and tells them you're crazy.


----------



## turnera

jld said:


> Turnera, I totally disagree with her mind ever turning back to him. I think he needs to be out of her life, forever. Period.


I would too, but it's not our decision to make. Right now, she must focus on continuing the exposure.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I did tell his parents already, in an email. I don't think bringing it up to them again at this point would do any good. They live in NY and we only see them maybe twice a year. He's their only child, the golden one so they'll believe him no matter what.


----------



## turnera

Did you tell them that he's meeting her to have sex this week?


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> I did tell his parents already, in an email. I don't think bringing it up to them again at this point would do any good. They live in NY and we only see them maybe twice a year. He's their only child, the golden one so they'll believe him no matter what.


And whether or not they believe him or you, they will support him in his decisions right or wrong and that is what is the most detrimental in these situations, the unconditional love.

Sorry you are going through this, and I feel and know your pain.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> I did tell his parents already, in an email. I don't think bringing it up to them again at this point would do any good. They live in NY and we only see them maybe twice a year. He's their only child, the golden one so they'll believe him no matter what.


Good you told them. Now tell his friends, your neighbors, etc.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I wish I could be as strong and sure of myself as you all are. I admit it, I'm still shaking & trembling. And I'll admit it, yes, the angry texts from him DO hurt. I called my counselor, thank god someone cancelled and she has a 5:00 opening, I'm so stressed right now. I'm glad I have all of you though!


----------



## yeah_right

jld said:


> Good you told them. Now tell his friends, your neighbors, etc.


Tell everyone. His co-workers, your mutual friends, cousins, his buddies. Also, tell her online friends. She probably has Advocare customers and peers who would be interested to know of her character.

Make their romantic rendezvous as awkward as possible!!!!!!

BTW, my kids finish college finals today and tomorrow so it's safe to assume that OW's kids will probably be home soon too. That should be super fun for all.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> I wish I could be as strong and sure of myself as you all are. I admit it, I'm still shaking & trembling. And I'll admit it, yes, the angry texts from him DO hurt. I called my counselor, thank god someone cancelled and she has a 5:00 opening, I'm so stressed right now. I'm glad I have all of you though!


Totally normal, which is why you need to ignore anything he is trying to do right now. You keep yourself safe and insulated for now and the counselor idea is excellent.


----------



## jld

So glad you will see the counselor.

YR, you think it is a good idea to involve OW's connections? 

I would just concentrate on the "husband." She knows his connections, and they are likely to be sympathetic. That other gal's connections, who knows.


----------



## Squeakr

jld said:


> Good you told them. Now tell his friends, your neighbors, etc.


Don't go too overboard with this exposure, lest you possibly hurt your own community situation. While I agree on full exposure, make sure you think about whom your telling and what the fallout may be, as in some cases it can cause more harm then good, especially when it comes to you, your daughter, the school, and your home and community (especially if you wish to remain where you currently are).

Think through and plan hat you are doing before fully proceeding as it could effect the above things negatively and make things even harder on your than they currently are. Some people will take his side even though they now have and know the truth about his affair. I saw it in my own STBXW's As and the dealings with the friends and neighbors. It definitely made things "strange, pressured, and heavy" (this is the easiest way I can describe it as it is hard to put into word) afterward within the community. I still would do nothing different faced with it again, except get out earlier than I did which may have caused some of the issues as well.


----------



## hurtinginohio

yeah_right said:


> Tell everyone. His co-workers, your mutual friends, cousins, his buddies. Also, tell her online friends. She probably has Advocare customers and peers who would be interested to know of her character.
> 
> Make their romantic rendezvous as awkward as possible!!!!!!
> 
> BTW, my kids finish college finals today and tomorrow so it's safe to assume that OW's kids will probably be home soon too. That should be super fun for all.


I know, I was thinking the same thing. Did the two of them think they could spend the holidays together? Or were they just going to fake it and spend it with their own families while secretly texting in the bathroom?


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> I know, I was thinking the same thing. Did the two of them think they could spend the holidays together? Or were they just going to fake it and spend it with their own families while secretly texting in the bathroom?


Mine did it, so they very well could. Mine even planned to have a rendezvous at the end of December on his and his BW's anniversary. Talk about a cold and callous person, they both were.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> I wish I could be as strong and sure of myself as you all are. I admit it, I'm still shaking & trembling. And I'll admit it, yes, the angry texts from him DO hurt. I called my counselor, thank god someone cancelled and she has a 5:00 opening, I'm so stressed right now. I'm glad I have all of you though!



I have been in your shoes. I know the emotions running through you right now. Fear, shame, anger, sadness, disgust all swirling around in your bruised thoughts. So many of these waywards follow the same behaviors so a lot of us on here know what's up.

Like I said, in person I am a pretty mellow woman, not so sure of myself in social situations and I hate any confrontation. But I did what I had to do and today I am still married and 99% happy. With that said, I was also fully prepared to divorce and knew I'd be OK. I made sure he knew that too.

You can do this. And please KNOW that either way, things DO get better eventually.


----------



## karole

Block his number HIO.


----------



## turnera

What usually happens is they break up the families and then PRETEND that - AFTER they broke up, they met each other and hit it off. You know, to help each other heal after dealing with such monsters for spouses.

That's why it's essential to tell all his family and best friends NOW that he's cheating NOW and that it caused him to move out.


----------



## yeah_right

"YR, you think it is a good idea to involve OW's connections? "

jld - My thought on this is that OW is in another state so OW's friends will have little impact on hurtin. But the goal is to make the affair less attractive, less palatable. Shame and embarrassment have a great way of diminishing the sexy attraction.


----------



## turnera

yeah_right said:


> "YR, you think it is a good idea to involve OW's connections? "
> 
> jld - My thought on this is that OW is in another state so OW's friends will have little impact on hurtin. But the goal is to make the affair less attractive, less palatable. Shame and embarrassment have a great way of diminishing the sexy attraction.


It also causes them to be stressed and when they're stressed, they can't keep pretending to be 100% perfect for the other one. in fact, there's likely to be a LOT of yelling going on right about now, no matter WHO they blame it on. Great way to lose the overall attraction, too.


----------



## yeah_right

turnera said:


> in fact, there's likely to be a LOT of yelling going on right about now, no matter WHO they blame it on. Great way to lose the overall attraction, too.



Awwwwww, their first fight....

KILL THE FANTASY!!!!


----------



## jld

Okay, thanks for your response, YR. I think you and Blossom and Turnera have a different goal than I do. I want this guy out of her life forever. I want all of her energy focused that way. All of it on starting her new, independent future. 

And yes, Turnera, that is not my decision to make. But it is my bias.


----------



## Squeakr

Or it can work the opposite way to push them closer, in which case you know it is officially over. They could use this situation as a way to really support and bond with each other as this creates common issues to deal with, exposure and community hared. Remember stress can create hysterical bonding as well as a coping method.

One won't know until the everything is followed through with.


----------



## jld

turnera said:


> It also causes them to be stressed and when they're stressed, they can't keep pretending to be 100% perfect for the other one. in fact, there's likely to be a LOT of yelling going on right about now, no matter WHO they blame it on. Great way to lose the overall attraction, too.


Well that is a delightful thought. I thought the guy would be protecting and comforting his girlfriend.


----------



## turnera

Not from what I've seen in the past.

And even if she's just standing there spewing vile hatred-filled crap into the air about YOU, he's standing there watching and thinking 'what happened to that sexy sweet kitten she seemed to be? Man, I'd better watch out, maybe she'll do that to ME...'


----------



## yeah_right

jld said:


> Okay, thanks for your response, YR. I think you and Blossom and Turnera have a different goal than I do. I want this guy out of her life forever. I want all of her energy focused that way. All of it on starting her new, independent future.


My goal is to kill the affair. That is the first step...the prime directive. 

Once the affair ends, they can determine how to proceed with their marriage or divorce. The tumor needs to be removed before rehab can take place.

Had you been around me you during my H's EA would have wanted my H out of my life forever too. And I was about to remove him. But I could not make that determination with a clear head without removing the OW first.


----------



## turnera

Plus, remember there really IS an affair fog. I've seen many people come out of that fog, once the OW/OM is gone, and be uttered appalled and disgusted at themselves for doing things so out of character. Not a guarantee, but that's why I say never make hasty decisions.


----------



## yeah_right

jld said:


> Well that is a delightful thought. I thought the guy would be protecting and comforting his girlfriend.


My guess is OW is upset. And upset would be an understatement. WH now has to have a non-fantasyland conversation with OW. It's not all kisses and unicorns and hearts anymore. It's uncomfortable. It's angry. Shoot, he may be thinking right now that OW is acting like his wife...


----------



## karole

I would like to know if the OW's husband even knows. The daughter may have only contacted her mom, the OW, and she could have made HIO to be a nutcase and explained it all away. I hope that isn't the case, but HIO, do you have proof you could send to the OW's husband?


----------



## jld

The daughter knows. Do you really think she will keep it in?

And of course her first thought is to protect her mother. It is her _mother_, for crying out loud.

But her friends will hear, siblings, etc. It will get around. Probably like wildfire.


----------



## turnera

And can you extrapolate HIS name and address from his daughter's links? You still don't know if he knows.


----------



## jld

turnera said:


> And can you extrapolate HIS name and address from his daughter's links? You still don't know if he knows.


That is a good idea, Turnera. That possible, hurting in Ohio?


----------



## SadSamIAm

It could easily be explained that the OW has just been communicating with this guy about how to get out of his marriage. That he is married to some psycho woman and that he is just a friend.

That the psycho woman found out about the friendship and thinks they are having an affair, but they are really just acquaintances and live miles apart.


----------



## karole

SadSamIAm said:


> It could easily be explained that the OW has just been communicating with this guy about how to get out of his marriage. That he is married to some psycho woman and that he is just a friend.
> 
> That the psycho woman found out about the friendship and thinks they are having an affair, but they are really just acquaintances and live miles apart.


This is what I was getting at. Thank you SSIA!


----------



## turnera

SadSamIAm said:


> It could easily be explained that the OW has just been communicating with this guy about how to get out of his marriage. That he is married to some psycho woman and that he is just a friend.
> 
> That the psycho woman found out about the friendship and thinks they are having an affair, but they are really just acquaintances and live miles apart.


Which is why they need to hear hurting's side, and her proof.


----------



## SadSamIAm

turnera said:


> Which is why they need to hear hurting's side, and her proof.


Maybe another text to the daughter? If she can't get a hold of the husband.

An invitation to talk on the phone. An explanation that she isn't psycho.


----------



## yeah_right

SadSamIAm said:


> It could easily be explained that the OW has just been communicating with this guy about how to get out of his marriage. That he is married to some psycho woman and that he is just a friend.
> 
> That the psycho woman found out about the friendship and thinks they are having an affair, but they are really just acquaintances and live miles apart.


But if they end up together, her kids will wonder....maybe that crazy lady was telling the truth!


----------



## yeah_right

HIO has the address and a possible phone number for OWH. His FB account looks like it hasn't been updated in a while. Perhaps a registered letter sent to the address requiring OWH's signature?


----------



## jld

You know, they're all good ideas, but I still think word is going to get around from the daughter. And my own perhaps irrelevant bias is that I still want all of hio's energy to go into separating herself from him and creating a great future for herself.

I hope she is contacting an attorney as we speak.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

My goal is to now allow sin to remain in the dark.

That's why I typically don't speculate on doing "this or that" will affect the long term success of the relationship. I'm a moment by moment girl... manage the person who shows up... right now she has a "monster" on her hands and needs to be managed as such.. if later he rectifies that I shift tactics.

I go for exposure (do not enable the sin/addiction)

Protection from abuse (boundaries)

This is where you typically see my posts fall...


----------



## karole

HIO, cancel any credit cards that has his name on it and separate your bank account if you have a joint account. Open an account in your name only so he can't wipe out the account. Get consultations with the best lawyers in your town - every one of them. If you talk to them, then they cannot represent your husband as it would be a conflict of interest.


----------



## hurtinginohio

karole said:


> HIO, cancel any credit cards that has his name on it and separate your bank account if you have a joint account. Open an account in your name only so he can't wipe out the account. Get consultations with the best lawyers in your town - every one of them. If you talk to them, then they cannot represent your husband as it would be a conflict of interest.


I did cancel his card on our joint account. He opened his own account when all this started, and I have no access to it so why should he have access to the account where my money is? I hope he tries to use that card to check into a hotel. 

For those of you saying to expose to her husband, trust me, it was NOT for lack of trying. I did NOT want to contact the daughter, that was a last resort and I do feel a bit bad for her, she is innocent. But on the other hand, her mother needs to be exposed for the lying cheating ho she is.


----------



## karole

Have you made any appointments with lawyers? That should be happening now. As Tunera suggested, pack all his stuff into garbage bags and put it in the garage and then send him a text that he has until (insert date) to come get his things or you are donating it to charity. And if he doesn't get it, donate it.


----------



## turnera

jld said:


> You know, they're all good ideas, but I still think word is going to get around from the daughter.


That really depends on what kind of family it is. What if she hates her dad? What if they're all rug sweepers? What if the dad's abusive and they're afraid to tell him? All kinds of possible scenarios.


----------



## Squeakr

karole said:


> Have you made any appointments with lawyers? That should be happening now. As Tunera suggested, pack all his stuff into garbage bags and put it in the garage and then send him a text that he has until (insert date) to come get his things or you are donating it to charity. And if he doesn't get it, donate it.


Very poor advice. This could not only get you into trouble in divorce areas (as this type of actions is looked upon very negatively, and sad as it is, unless you live in a fault state infidelity is only taken into consideration in custody situations and possibly alimony settlements), it could also legally get you into trouble as it is his stuff and she can't just give it away nor can she bar him from the marital residence without legal backing, such as with a RO. DO NOT heed this advice as it could cause way more issues for HIO (or any BS in this situation) in the end. If you must bag it, leave it in the garage and notify him he can retrieve it there and make sure it is not broken and all there, as that could cause legal issues as well. Unless of course you want to add even more drama to the mix, then do as you want.

The goal is to stop the A and possibly remove the WS from the M, but not to cause more legal issues.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Most of his things are already in the garage, he took most of his clothes when he left last week. There is NOTHING of his still in our bedroom at all. So, it's all in the garage (golf clubs, etc.) or in his office. Most of the stuff in his office is work related and I really don't want to do anything that would screw up his job, not for him, but for financial stability for our daughter.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Most of his things are already in the garage, he took most of his clothes when he left last week. There is NOTHING of his still in our bedroom at all. So, it's all in the garage (golf clubs, etc.) or in his office. Most of the stuff in his office is work related and I really don't want to do anything that would screw up his job, not for him, but for financial stability for our daughter.


You could tell him that X day after he returns to town, he is free to come clean out his office. If he doesn't show up that day, you will box it all up for him and leave it in the garage with the rest of his belongings. Tell him you're setting it up into a yoga studio and will be painting on X+1 day, rain or shine.


----------



## Trying95

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying95

Please try not to take anything he is sending you via text to heart.... Try to see the crazy brain spewing all that hate. take care of yourself and know you are strong. Set a path for the future and contact a divorce attorney. Take control. You are powerful now. It is your day, your life, not in his control. Sending you good thoughts. I understand and have been there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Trying95 said:


> Please try not to take anything he is sending you via text to heart.... Try to see the crazy brain spewing all that hate. take care of yourself and know you are strong. Set a path for the future and contact a divorce attorney. Take control. You are powerful now. It is your day, your life, not in his control. Sending you good thoughts. I understand and gave been there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great post Trying


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well, here's an interesting turn of events. He cancelled his hotel reservation for tonight which is about 2 hours from where she lives and where I think they planned to meet. He made another reservation closer to where his all day meeting is at today, in our state about 2 hours south of where we live. He has also been texting his friend (male) who lives in that town. So, from what I can gather, the little rendezvous has been put on hold and he is going to see his friend tonight, a guy I actually happen to like a lot, he is married with 3 kids too.

Yes, I'm still snooping, thank goodness he's so predictable with his passwords.

I am meeting with an attorney on Friday.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Excellent!:smthumbup:

You may have just prevented this from going full PA


----------



## karole

Have you talked to his friend to tell him what is going on by chance?


----------



## turnera

Call or email his friend. Don't tell him you know about his change of plans. Say 'if you happen to talk to H, I wanted you to know what's going on. I know he's been in an EA with this woman; he was making plans to meet up with her this week while on his trip to go ahead and start having sex. If he calls you, I hope I can count on you to support our family and maybe talk some sense into him. Because of his actions, I'm being forced to see a lawyer this week.'

Give them plenty to talk about tonight.


----------



## hurtinginohio

No, I don't know him that well. I only see him maybe once a year at a work convention that I would always go to with my husband. But, I've always admired him and the way he talks about his wife and kids - they had 3 boys in 4 years. I do think/hope maybe that he can at least be a good influence.


----------



## SadSamIAm

hurtinginohio said:


> Well, here's an interesting turn of events. He cancelled his hotel reservation for tonight which is about 2 hours from where she lives and where I think they planned to meet. He made another reservation closer to where his all day meeting is at today, in our state about 2 hours south of where we live. He has also been texting his friend (male) who lives in that town. So, from what I can gather, the little rendezvous has been put on hold and he is going to see his friend tonight, a guy I actually happen to like a lot, he is married with 3 kids too.
> 
> Yes, I'm still snooping, thank goodness he's so predictable with his passwords.
> 
> I am meeting with an attorney on Friday.


Maybe this just got real for your husbands girlfriend. Maybe she cancelled their rendezvous after being confronted by her daughter. 

She thought she could have a little fun on the side and nobody 
would ever know. 

She threw your husband under the bus because she doesn't want to lose her family.


----------



## hurtinginohio

turnera said:


> Call or email his friend. Don't tell him you know about his change of plans. Say 'if you happen to talk to H, I wanted you to know what's going on. I know he's been in an EA with this woman; he was making plans to meet up with her this week while on his trip to go ahead and start having sex. If he calls you, I hope I can count on you to support our family and maybe talk some sense into him. Because of his actions, I'm being forced to see a lawyer this week.'
> 
> Give them plenty to talk about tonight.


If I did that, he would KNOW I have access to his emails and change his pw. I never talk to this guy unless I'm with my husband, I'm not even FB friends with him, so that would seem very suspicious if I contacted him out of the blue.


----------



## Openminded

And that is the value of blowing things up! Yes, it does sometimes backfire but when it works it can work really well. The light of day is now shining harshly on their little fantasy and things are much shakier than they were before. 

She's probably doing damage control now with her daughter so there's no way she's going to meet your husband tonight. And he's apparently seeking advice from his friend while likely trying to look innocent and pretend he's done nothing wrong.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> If I did that, he would KNOW I have access to his emails and change his pw. I never talk to this guy unless I'm with my husband, I'm not even FB friends with him, so that would seem very suspicious if I contacted him out of the blue.


The cons outweigh the pros. I vote for not contacting the friend and keeping the snooping access to his emails.

The important thing is that he won't be with OW tonight. Remember, the number one goal is to kill the affair. We may be having some success.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well, I just checked our phone records and while he hasn't been texting her in the last few hours, he's been blowing up his phone texting friends, both his and mutual as well as his mother. I'm sure to let them all know what a monster I am and that we plan to divorce asap. Or maybe to ask his parents for the money to file.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> Well, I just checked our phone records and while he hasn't been texting her in the last few hours, he's been blowing up his phone texting friends, both his and mutual as well as his mother. I'm sure to let them all know what a monster I am and that we plan to divorce asap. Or maybe to ask his parents for the money to file.


You are doing so well!!! Stay focused. Channel your anger. And when your motivation falters, find your daughter. You are doing it for both of you.


----------



## SadSamIAm

hurtinginohio said:


> Well, I just checked our phone records and while he hasn't been texting her in the last few hours, he's been blowing up his phone texting friends, both his and mutual as well as his mother. I'm sure to let them all know what a monster I am and that we plan to divorce asap. Or maybe to ask his parents for the money to file.


Maybe he wants to get his/your friends before you get a chance to. Thinks you are in full exposure mode.


----------



## karole

He's in damage control to try to get his side of the story out before you do to his closest family and friends.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

He is pissed as a little hornet isn't he.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Hey Yeah Right... how long after you blew up your H's affair did he come out of the fog and stopped being mean about the exposure?


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> If I did that, he would KNOW I have access to his emails and change his pw. I never talk to this guy unless I'm with my husband, I'm not even FB friends with him, so that would seem very suspicious if I contacted him out of the blue.


That's cool. It just sounded the way you wrote it that you guys were all good friends.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Well, I just checked our phone records and while he hasn't been texting her in the last few hours, he's been blowing up his phone texting friends, both his and mutual as well as his mother. I'm sure to let them all know what a monster I am and that we plan to divorce asap. Or maybe to ask his parents for the money to file.


*sigh*

That's exactly why I told you to call his mom immediately. Now you would seem vindictive to call, since he called first.

And I'm not saying this to chew you out, but rather for all the people who read these threads and never comment, but are learning.


----------



## Trying95

Please make sure you are keeping copies of text records and his emails. Make sure you forward them to your self and make sure he can not find out you did
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hurtinginohio

Trying95 said:


> Please make sure you are keeping copies of text records and his emails. Make sure you forward them to your self and make sure he can not find out you did
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've been downloading them all into a spreadsheet.


----------



## turnera

OH, yeah! You should be printing out ALL HIS EMAILS and anything you have on his texts, like a call list to her number. Keep a copy someplace he can't find it, in case you need it for your lawyer.


----------



## Trying95

Good! If he is clearing with mutual friends, you have solid proof to use down the line, if ever needed. Also keep screen shots of text messages he sends you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hurtinginohio

Trying95 said:


> Good! If he is clearing with mutual friends, you have solid proof to use down the line, if ever needed. Also keep screen shots of text messages he sends you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


O I'm sure he's painting me as a crazy psycho ***** to anyone who will listen right now!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Rest in the truth...


----------



## yeah_right

Trying95 said:


> Please make sure you are keeping copies of text records and his emails. Make sure you forward them to your self and make sure he can not find out you did
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes! Keep records of everything. For emails, I took pics with my phone to avoid dealing with forwarding and deleting sent mail. Then it was also easy to cut and paste those pics into a Word document, along with dates, details, phone records, etc. Very handy. Helps with filling in the pieces when trying to determine timeline. Also helpful to hand it to your WH. He can't really deny when it's staring at him in full-color.


----------



## yeah_right

Blossom Leigh said:


> Hey Yeah Right... how long after you blew up your H's affair did he come out of the fog and stopped being mean about the exposure?


Blossom - Oh my, the angry fog did not disappear overnight. A person can't simply turn off those feelings they have for someone (not matter how icky they really are!). The exposure to his family, OWH and our kiddos, delivery of my handy Word document and a final "Her or me...I have an appointment with my attorney on Thursday so let me know" got him to tell OW he was done that same day. 

I'd like to say it all went back to normal immediately, but no. But we began a phase of hysterical bonding, reconnecting with better communication, going back to being each others' best friends and having lots and lots and lots of discussions on the affair. Those talks often included yelling and tears...from both of us. "Why can't I keep my friend?" "Waaaaahhhhh, I didn't have sex with her!" "You're acting like a jealous, scorned B!tch". Yada, yada, yada. I felt like his mommy at times. And usually he is the strong one, the leader in our family. So weird.

Divorce was still on the back of my mind for almost a year because I simply was hurt, angry and lacking trust. I had an exit plan in place. 

I am with him today because he finally recognized the harm he caused to the marriage, kids and me and took steps to truly change bad behaviors. I am with him today because he did cut off the OW pretty fast after the exposure. I am with him today because we had 20 good years before and we've been having some great times since.

He is ashamed of what he did and no longer has any feelings for OW. Unfortunately, I still have hurt and will always have it at some level. That damage simply cannot be undone. Even now, I still have a moment here and there where I ask myself if it wouldn't just have been easier to dump him from the start. That's why I will only say I am 99% happy in my marriage.

Sorry for the mini thread-jack!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Mine is similar except exposure was different. After we survived the first three months after Dday, the intense anger showed up when I said I needed outside help. That lasted until the summer so about six months, then I just went silent, then last fall I started testing things and his anger was still there full force, so by December I explained to him that it was professional help for his anger or I was out. Then I kicked him out two months later and it was then he sought professional help and help from our church. Yea, it definitely does not go away over night and right now we are dealing with a bit of re-exposure to the other spouses and brother. We are trying to keep ourselves "above the fall out" prestrategy wise... hope it works.

Thanks for answering, I thought OP might benefit from having this snapshot of your path.


----------



## yeah_right

One other thing, while he's not normally a violent person, during the exposure he did throw a unopened soda can at the wall (no worries, it was not at me). It missed and actually landed and exploded on his laptop, ruining the drive. It was silent for a minute and I burst out with giggles and walked out of the room. We are both big believers in karma so I think that helped too.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Mine put a knife to his throat, so be aware OP


----------



## Trying95

They become big babies when you interfere with their "new toy". Immaturity at its worst.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Trying95 said:


> They become big babies when you interfere with their "new toy". Immaturity at its worst.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And can be highly dangerous

aka Situational Narcissistic Reactions


----------



## Trying95

Yes, I had my mother in law on the phone during one of our worst fights.. I was ready to commit him to psych ward. Of course he was also on meds that completely changed him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well thanks again everyone for getting me through the day, I don't think I've seen even the tip of his iceberg anger yet, I'm sure there's more to come. I was able to get a last minute appt. with my counselor today so I'm headed there now, will update after.


----------



## karole

Hang in there HIO, my heart breaks for you, but you seem to be a very strong woman and you will get through this. Focus on you and your daughter. You deserve so much better. Your husband will eventually realize what he has lost and will regret his decisions.


----------



## turnera

Remember that you don't HAVE to answer his phone call. The only reason you'd ethically have to contact him is if your D was in danger of some sort. Other than that - TOTALLY DARK.

He moved out. He lost the right to tell you ANYthing.


----------



## Squeakr

Trying95 said:


> Please make sure you are keeping copies of text records and his emails. Make sure you forward them to your self and make sure he can not find out you did
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


These are good for proof to him that you know the truth and others to show the hiding and deceit, but these are not admissible in divorce proceedings unless you have his permission to be within the account, otherwise, they will both be inadmissible as evidence for your case support and they will be possibly evidence of your breaking many laws regarding surveillance and hacking laws. So just a warning to be careful with how you handle this information.


----------



## Working1

Sorry you are going through this.

He is mad right now. He had the perfect situation going on and you just blew it all up!

It sounds like the OW is busy dealing with her husband, she is jumping through hoops right now and is not available for your husband the way she was before.

If your husband sees that the OW is not immediately leaving her husband now, your husband will most likely go through cycles of wanting to work it out with you and going back and forth underground with the OW. H will most likely get a secret burner phone and continuing his contact with the OW.

He will either leave you now, or he will go to therapy to work it out with you to buy time to wait and see how it goes on his OW's end. 

If he doesn't file for divorce asap, then you may see that the more you back off, the more he becomes interested in working it out with you, and the more you show interest or give him a hard time, the more he will start putting his thoughts back on the OW. He will probably be going back and forth in his mind about what he wants to do until his addiction to her finally wears off.


----------



## hurtinginohio

OMG, what a day! So I went to the therapist, but whoever took my call didn't put me on the schedule so she had already left! Aargh.

But, my friend brought over pizza & wine so I could tell her the story. Yes, to say he's angry is an understatement. He hasn't contacted me since, but has been texting/calling friends and his mother. He also spent from 4-6 pm on the phone with the OW. I may have prevented their sexcipade tonight, but they're are obviously still in contact. 

So, of course now I will be the bad guy, even though I'm not the one who lied and cheated, I will be the villain. Where to go from here?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Lawyer up and protect yourself financially. 

Restrict his access to you severely.

If yall do talk tell him you refuse to own his choice to cheat. Thats on him. Then keep dark.


----------



## jld

No way you are any kind of villain in this.

Focus on getting that divorce. _That_ is your deliverance.


----------



## 3putt

hurtinginohio said:


> OMG, what a day! So I went to the therapist, but whoever took my call didn't put me on the schedule so she had already left! Aargh.
> 
> But, my friend brought over pizza & wine so I could tell her the story. Yes, to say he's angry is an understatement. He hasn't contacted me since, but has been texting/calling friends and his mother. He also spent from 4-6 pm on the phone with the OW. I may have prevented their sexcipade tonight, but they're are obviously still in contact.
> 
> So, of course now I will be the bad guy, even though I'm not the one who lied and cheated, I will be the villain. Where to go from here?


Exposure needs to be done in one fell swoop. If there are any more people, on both sides (FB, phone, email, smoke signals, etc.) that you can contact right now, that would be the thing to do. Drawing exposure out gives them a chance to spin their stories to their own advantages, and gives you a lesser chance at success.

FWIW, you've done well up to this point. The true measure of how well you are doing is how pissed off they get. And you have them reeling! The more pissed, the better, because it means you're hitting them right where it hurts the most; with the truth.

Finish it.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> OMG, what a day! So I went to the therapist, but whoever took my call didn't put me on the schedule so she had already left! Aargh.
> 
> But, my friend brought over pizza & wine so I could tell her the story. Yes, to say he's angry is an understatement. He hasn't contacted me since, but has been texting/calling friends and his mother. He also spent from 4-6 pm on the phone with the OW. I may have prevented their sexcipade tonight, but they're are obviously still in contact.
> 
> So, of course now I will be the bad guy, even though I'm not the one who lied and cheated, I will be the villain. Where to go from here?


Sorry you ate here and experiencing this. Welcome to the club that no one wants to be a member of. We all share the same sentiments. We are the bad guys yet we did everything right, which to any logical person can't figure out how that works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hurtinginohio

Right, why is it that us faithful spouses are the ones to be made feel bad or guilty? That's what's pissing me off most right now! I threw a wrench into their fantasy life and now I'm the bad guy. Ugh. At least my kids are here with me and his absence is only making their bond with me even stronger.


----------



## 3putt

hurtinginohio said:


> Right, why is it that us faithful spouses are the ones to be made feel bad or guilty? That's what's pissing me off most right now! I threw a wrench into their fantasy life and now I'm the bad guy. Ugh. At least my kids are here with me and his absence is only making their bond with me even stronger.


Do the kids know the truth? How old are they?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Right, why is it that us faithful spouses are the ones to be made feel bad or guilty? That's what's pissing me off most right now! I threw a wrench into their fantasy life and now I'm the bad guy. Ugh. At least my kids are here with me and his absence is only making their bond with me even stronger.


Blameshifting and gaslighting are intended to make themselves feel better at your expense.


----------



## Openminded

Yes, a cheater may certainly try to make you feel bad and guilty and tell everyone you're crazy in order to take the blame off them but it's up to you whether it has any effect. Don't let it. 

The reality is that people can and will think what they wish to think. That's not something we control. So let it go and focus on your plan going forward. I found it helped me to take a legal pad and hand-write a list so I could make sure nothing was forgotten. I kept adding to it and marking things off as they were dealt with. 

It made me feel I was moving forward even during the darkest days.


----------



## hurtinginohio

3putt said:


> Do the kids know the truth? How old are they?


My kids are 25, 23 and almost 12. The 2 older girls are from my first marriage but he has been their father in every way for the past 14 years. Yes, they all know the truth, not all the sordid details, but they know he was talking to another woman online and that is when he decided to move out.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> My kids are 25, 23 and almost 12. The 2 older girls are from my first marriage but he has been their father in every way for the past 14 years. Yes, they all know the truth, not all the sordid details, but they know he was talking to another woman online and that is when he decided to move out.


How are they handling it?


----------



## 3putt

hurtinginohio said:


> My kids are 25, 23 and almost 12. The 2 older girls are from my first marriage but he has been their father in every way for the past 14 years. Yes, they all know the truth, not all the sordid details, but they know he was talking to another woman online and that is when he decided to move out.


Alright, they all need to know the full truth though. Not sure how you define 'sordid details' but they are all old enough to understand betrayal and adultery, so tell it like it is. It's not your job to protect him from this. It's on him.


----------



## hurtinginohio

They're all pissed. The older two have been there before and thought he was different, they are disgusted. The younger one, our daughter together is angry and devastated. She goes between wanting him home to never wanting to see him again. And who is here dealing with all the fallout? Me of course.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

You have my biggest empathy...


----------



## 3putt

hurtinginohio said:


> They're all pissed. The older two have been there before and thought he was different, they are disgusted. The younger one, our daughter together is angry and devastated. She goes between wanting him home to never wanting to see him again. And who is here dealing with all the fallout? Me of course.


Well, good! That's how they should feel. You aren't the only one that's been betrayed in all this.

My heart goes out to you and those kids.

I would still try and find a way to contact as many of her friends and family as possible. Like I said before, the quicker it is done, the more the damage it inflicts. What you do from there is entirely up to you.


----------



## hurtinginohio

That's what he doesn't get, he's not just betraying me, but 3 daughters as well as the OW's children & spouse as well. How many people are expected to deal with the fallout of his poor choices?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Someone needs to invite Zanne here....


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> That's what he doesn't get, he's not just betraying me, but 3 daughters as well as the OW's children & spouse as well. How many people are expected to deal with the fallout of his poor choices?


It will go well beyond immediate family...


----------



## 3putt

Blossom Leigh said:


> It will go well beyond immediate family...


When doesn't it?

SMH


----------



## Blossom Leigh

3putt said:


> When doesn't it?
> 
> SMH


Quoted for truth.. its a tsunami of emotional destruction.

Wives, children, parents on both sides, extended family, friends,etc


----------



## yeah_right

Just remember, in no way is his affair your fault. You are not the villain. While problems in the marriage are 50/50, the betrayal is 100% on him.

I'll be the first to admit that I wasn't involved enough in my own marriage when he had his EA. We both took each other for granted, became complacent, etc. But no where in those wedding vows does it say you can supplement your spouse with a fling on the side.


----------



## Working1

hurtinginohio said:


> OMG, what a day! So I went to the therapist, but whoever took my call didn't put me on the schedule so she had already left! Aargh.
> 
> But, my friend brought over pizza & wine so I could tell her the story. Yes, to say he's angry is an understatement. He hasn't contacted me since, but has been texting/calling friends and his mother. He also spent from 4-6 pm on the phone with the OW. I may have prevented their sexcipade tonight, but they're are obviously still in contact.
> 
> So, of course now I will be the bad guy, even though I'm not the one who lied and cheated, I will be the villain. Where to go from here?


You will not be the bad guy. there is nothing wrong with you talking about what is going on in your life with the people involved including the OW's relatives.

Everything they are talking about right now is about damage control. Trust me, there is no happily ever after just yet for them. Perhpas down the road, maybe. but right now it is all damage control.


----------



## hurtinginohio

We'll I've heard nothing from him since around noon yesterday when sh!t hit the fan. No calls, texts or emails.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Do you know where he is?


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes, he's been at the hotel he booked, the 2nd one in our state. Gotta love google tracking!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Yes, he's been at the hotel he booked, the 2nd one in our state. Gotta love google tracking!



How are you feeling this morning?


----------



## hurtinginohio

Not that bad actually, didn't sleep we'll so I'm exhausted, but I feel like I made my last attempt to keep our family intact. If he still wants to divorce me, he's not the man I want to be with anyway.

I know he's beyond angry, but maybe eventually he'll realize my love is greater than his anger.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Yep, cause him to face himself... allow it to happen

It is actually loving to expose an affair. I would stand in that truth. 

Try to catch a nap today and not focus too hard on the future outside of protecting yourself and your kids financially.


----------



## karole

Thinking of you and your family HIO.


----------



## farsidejunky

hurtinginohio said:


> I know he's beyond angry, but maybe eventually he'll realize my love is greater than his anger.


This is truth. 

This quote shows great clarity and strength on your part. Kudos to you. You are doing extremely well both in your emotions and your actions. 

Get some rest today, but also start preparing for the inevitable time he will return to the home.


----------



## yeah_right

Keep strong. Maintain 180. Do not initiate contact with him unless it's related to the health and well-being of your 11 year old. Do not respond to him unless it's about your child. Try to avoid him as much as possible until after tomorrow's appointment with the attorney.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yeah I do not plan on contacting him at all. I have a feeling he doesn't plan to contact me anytime soon either. We are signed up to run a 5K together on Saturday, but chances are he's forgotten anyway.


----------



## karole

HIO, get your girls to run the 5K with you. Keep yourself as busy as you can.

Also, I hope you have one heck of an attorney! Hire the meanest one you can find!!


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Your pretty much married to a child. He lashes out at you because things don't go his way. You have to ponder if you want to be married to an adult, who deals with the issues in a healthy manner, or a man child, who throws a tantrum because he does not always get what he wants. He is like a child where he chases the new shiny toy and disregard the old one. He does not see the value in you. He doesn't see the valuable person you are, and do you really want a husband like that. he does not appreciate the loving wife, and there are good men out there that will. 

Keep the self-improvement up, and show him that you will not tolerate his disrespect. Document, record everything, and be smart. Don't let him paint you as the bad guy, and expose him to the people that matter. Keep all text voice mails, so you can show people the a$$hole that he really is. Keep all evidence of his affair, and show him as the one abandoning his family. If he wants to be a child, show him the consequences of being one.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> Not that bad actually, didn't sleep we'll so I'm exhausted, but I feel like I made my last attempt to keep our family intact.*If he still wants to divorce me, he's not the man I want to be with anyway.*
> 
> I know he's beyond angry, but maybe eventually he'll realize my love is greater than his anger.


This is the part that I like.

I would not even consider any kind of future with a guy who has treated you the way he has. 

Like Mr. Fisty said, believe that there are mature, responsible, truly loving men out there who would never treat you so disrespectfully. Please just believe in a better future for yourself and your daughters.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Yet it is just as powerful for your daughter to see her Father rectify his behavior, seek authentic reconciliation and choose better behavior and BECOME a man who will never treat you that way. imo but jld is right either way you have to believe it for yourself and your daughter before either would happen.


----------



## hurtinginohio

My 25 year old just forwarded a text she got from him at 8 this morning, she did not reply. She has 2 little boys, a 2 year old and a 3 month old, I changed their names in the text.

"I'm sorry. Just know that I love you guys very much. I'm not exactly sure when I'll be able to see you guys again but give Jimmy and Johnny a big hug for me".


----------



## jld

Ouch. I bet that hurts. 

Do your older daughters consider him their dad?


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes they do, they have called him dad for 14 years.


----------



## jld

I am _so, so sorry_ for all of you. Just so sorry.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> My 25 year old just forwarded a text she got from him at 8 this morning, she did not reply. She has 2 little boys, a 2 year old and a 3 month old, I changed their names in the text.
> 
> "I'm sorry. Just know that I love you guys very much. I'm not exactly sure *when I'll be able to see you guys again* but give Jimmy and Johnny a big hug for me".


This is good. Why? Because it tells he is scared sh*tless at how mad you are. He's afraid you have cut him out of y'all's lives forever. 

In other words, HE THINKS YOU HAVE THE POWER.

Keep it that way. STAY mad. MAKE the rules. Tell him you'll consider letting him stay in the family, but ONLY if he IMMEDIATELY dumps the OW and agrees to very high hoops until you can trust him again.


----------



## karole

I'm so very sorry HIO. Good grief, why do people behave to stupidly and selfishly? I do not understand it. Just know that you deserve a lot better than him. What a jerk he is.


----------



## hurtinginohio

turnera said:


> This is good. Why? Because it tells he is scared sh*tless at how mad you are. He's afraid you have cut him out of y'all's lives forever.
> 
> In other words, HE THINKS YOU HAVE THE POWER.
> 
> Keep it that way. STAY mad. MAKE the rules. Tell him you'll consider letting him stay in the family, but ONLY if he IMMEDIATELY dumps the OW and agrees to very high hoops until you can trust him again.


See, I'm looking at it as him saying there is no way in hell he plans to move back home. She doesn't live with us, but the babies are over all the time. She was the only one he texted this morning so I'm thinking he is missing the boys. Not badly enough to grovel though.


----------



## jld

turnera said:


> This is good. Why? Because it tells he is scared sh*tless at how mad you are. He's afraid you have cut him out of y'all's lives forever.
> 
> In other words, HE THINKS YOU HAVE THE POWER.
> 
> Keep it that way. STAY mad. MAKE the rules. Tell him you'll consider letting him stay in the family, but ONLY if he IMMEDIATELY dumps the OW and agrees to very high hoops until you can trust him again.


But then she'd have to be the dominant partner, Turnera. And not every woman is cut out to do that. 

I would just pursue the divorce, Hio.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> See, I'm looking at it as him saying there is no way in hell he plans to move back home. She doesn't live with us, but the babies are over all the time. She was the only one he texted this morning so I'm thinking he is missing the boys. Not badly enough to grovel though.


I agree. Totally selfish dude. No core.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> This is good. Why? Because it tells he is scared sh*tless at how mad you are. He's afraid you have cut him out of y'all's lives forever.
> 
> In other words, HE THINKS YOU HAVE THE POWER.
> 
> Keep it that way. STAY mad. MAKE the rules. Tell him you'll consider letting him stay in the family, but ONLY if he IMMEDIATELY dumps the OW and agrees to very high hoops until you can trust him again.


Temporary power is acceptable if the H has lost their capacity to lead. People can be restored.


----------



## Openminded

I think he's just feeling very, very sorry for himself. 

It's only been 24 hours. He has lots of time to think about the course he's going to take. He could change his mind several times before he settles down one way or the other. Lots of ups and downs. Be prepared.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Openminded said:


> I think he's just feeling very, very sorry for himself.
> 
> It's only been 24 hours. He has lots of time to think about the course he's going to take. He could change his mind several times before he settles down one way or the other. Lots of ups and downs. Be prepared.


Great advice


----------



## hurtinginohio

Ugh, what a stressful day! I just wish it was over already so I could go home to bed.


----------



## yeah_right

Openminded said:


> I think he's just feeling very, very sorry for himself.
> 
> It's only been 24 hours. He has lots of time to think about the course he's going to take. He could change his mind several times before he settles down one way or the other. Lots of ups and downs. Be prepared.


So true. He's just beginning to see reality set in. The pretty veil of fantasyland is disintegrating right before his eyes. What a chicken text to send to your daughter, though. Weak.

I can't promise you that your marriage will move towards R or D at this point. What I can say is it will probably get worse before it gets better...but it WILL get better, one way or another!!!

Did he have any kids in a previous relationship or are yours his only kids and grandkids?


----------



## hurtinginohio

No other kids, just my 2 and our daughter together. He was married once before to his college girlfriend but it lasted less than 2 years. She was a teacher and cheated on him with a fellow teacher. Now he is inflicting that pain on me.


----------



## IIJokerII

hurtinginohio said:


> Not that bad actually, didn't sleep we'll so I'm exhausted, but I feel like I made my last attempt to keep our family intact. If he still wants to divorce me, he's not the man I want to be with anyway.
> 
> I know he's beyond angry, but maybe eventually he'll realize my love is greater than his anger.


 I can understand the frustration you are enduring right now and offer my deepest sympathies. You husband sounds like many who have traversed this path of selfishness that invariably hurts others. I also know that if he were to show up right now, beg and plead for forgiveness while offering any and all efforts and materials you so needed to ensure his words were true you'd take him back in a heartbeat. The fight isn't over, yet you feel defeated.

So now it is time to burn the snake out of the field. In order to minimize and damage he does or maybe, just maybe, have s hot is to go full bore assault mode. Not nasty, but aggressive and assertive. Take the fight to him. I know it may sound sexist but you are a women and most men will cower if enough pressure is put on. Squeeze him where it hurts and refuse to let him see you hurt, only angry. 

I tried the MB way and in many ways disagree with the whole defending of the waywards bit as well as making your marriage a more welcome one. For whatever damage he did to convince you of his dissatisfaction towards you he is still in the wrong. Would a parent accept their child's destructive behavior due to being unhappy in the home. Would a school offer an apology and more alluring environment to a student who abused the school? Would a company reward an employee who stole from them a bonus? No is the answer here. 

No proceed accordingly, kick his a55!!!


----------



## Trying95

He is still so deep in his fog, he doesn't know what he is doing. Proceed on course, make yourself strong and create a safe, level environment for your daughter. He may wake to see he is out in the cold and try to reverse, he may not. But know you deserve better than this no matter how much your heart and everything else hurts. Try to find other outside entertainment for yourself, start a new book series, try a different type of exercise, look at what else will help to make you happy.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Update! I got an email from him about our cell phone plan.

"I just removed all account control from your number to mine since I am the primary account holder. I highly suggest getting your own account by the beginning of the new year.

I kept daughter on the account with my lines and will continue to pay for that moving forward. You have ownership of that number now and can take that with you to your new contract. 

All you need to do is go to the Verizon store or do it online."


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By *hurtinginohio*
> So, of course now I will be the bad guy, even though I'm not the one who lied and cheated, I will be the villain. Where to go from here?
> 
> Right, why is it that us faithful spouses are the ones to be made feel bad or guilty? That's what's pissing me off most right now! I threw a wrench into their fantasy life and now I'm the bad guy. Ugh. At least my kids are here with me and his absence is only making their bond with me even stronger.
> 
> That's what he doesn't get, he's not just betraying me, but 3 daughters as well as the OW's children & spouse as well. How many people are expected to deal with the fallout of his poor choices?
> 
> I know he's beyond angry, but maybe eventually he'll realize my love is greater than his anger.



Your husband has chosen his selfishness over you and his own children. When a person does that they are severely warped and your husband is warped and twisted.

Put a stop to you worrying about you being made the villain; you can do that.

Put a stop to that crap about feeling guilty, that is poison to your emotions and will hurt you getting resolve with your husband. What the hell are you feeling guilty about? He shytes on his family and you feel guilty? Get rid of that false guilt so that you can be stronger!

You are hurting big time but remember that your children will be close to you and that is more important than your husband.

Your love will not have the effect that consequences will have. Right now you need to get into war mode and your husband is enemy number one! I am not saying for you to hate him but he has done great damage to you and his children for his own selfishness. Use everything that you can, including legal methods to bring the greatest consequences that you can down on his head. *He will not break his twisted mind and emotions unless he is BROKEN, time for world war 3. Not out of hate but out of justice and accountability.*

It maybe that women or you do not think like this accountability instead of love but sometimes we males will only stop our twisted selfishness by consequences; that is what I think your husband needs the most. I know it will be very hard on you but I see no other way. I know that some women think that love is greater than anger but in your husband’s case I do not think that is the case. Love does not usually change a man that is deep into selfishness or sin and they have to be BROKEN first!

If he does not break and get to work on getting right with you and family then he is not worth saving. You can build a life without him and it can be a good life. *You have your children that love you and your husband is not your whole world. I know you will be hurt but millions of women have made a good life without their betraying-cheating husband and so can you!*


----------



## Trying95

Going underground more so you can not see what he is doing and how many times he interacts with OW. I'm so sorry, he is being such an a$$. Fog brain, juvenile. I hope you downloaded everything before now.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I just need you guys to keep me strong enough to NOT reply to that email!


----------



## karole

He isn't worth a response HIO.


----------



## Amplexor

hurtinginohio said:


> I just need you guys to keep me strong enough to NOT reply to that email!


Don't, because that's what he wants you to do!


----------



## Trying95

Don't reply..he wants you to engage and drop to his level. Go get your own phone account. Don't let him see your activity. I would insist at some point you have some control over daughter's phone account, though. That may be needed, at some point.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> I just need you guys to keep me strong enough to NOT reply to that email!


You could just say f it and stick him with the number. Go out and get a new number and not tell him what it is, so he can't text or contact you. Then if the other is still under contract he gets stuck paying for it, or eating the ETF fee.


----------



## yeah_right

Don't reply to this email.

Don't reply to ANYTHING unless it pertains to the health of your 11 year old. Put the phone down and walk away from it!!!!

Call your attorney to re-confirm today's appointment. I didn't have to go through with filing in my case so I'm no expert, but can't they put a restraining order on finances and joint accounts?


----------



## Squeakr

yeah_right said:


> Don't reply to this email.
> 
> Don't reply to ANYTHING unless it pertains to the health of your 11 year old. Put the phone down and walk away from it!!!!
> 
> Call your attorney to re-confirm today's appointment. I didn't have to go through with filing in my case so I'm no expert, but can't they put a restraining order on finances and joint accounts?


No they can't RO it unless they have something criminal to make it happen. Unfortunately if it is Joint they each have equal access to it and either could clean it out without the other's consent as long as only one signature is required on the account.

You can call and have c edit and accounts in your name locked or shut down, but Joint generally requires action on both parties.

Also time for another/ new email account to insure that you have a safer and more secure account for communication with your lawyer, in case he knows the password on the email account.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Is he still coming home tomorrow?

Yes, refrain from any destructive responses and keep yourself safe from him... he has no rights to you right now. The affair drug is coursing through his system and his narcissistic reactions are nothing different than you would see coming out of an addict trying to keep his "stash." Very destructive. So stay away from him in total if need be. If he is hell bent on being destructive, give him plenty of berth to thrash around alone until the drug wears off. Then reconsider. You will feel the shift when it happens.

BUT IF he chases you down to be cruel via harassment, being threatening in your space, spewing vitriol, call the cops when necessary but this is where respect time comes... Be VERY Firm in your resolve to not tolerate his abuse during this time.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I've changed all the passwords to all of my accounts, he'll never guess them.

He is coming "home" late tonight, but not to our house, to his new roommates apt where he will sleep on the futon.


----------



## yeah_right

Thanks Squeakr. I just know of a WS I worked with who put a RO on his SAHM wife when he impregnated his OW and left his family. I know that they were extremely wealthy and he was always shady in business so maybe that's what it was. We all figured he did it to prevent his wife from cleaning him out.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> I've changed all the passwords to all of my accounts, he'll never guess them.
> 
> He is coming "home" late tonight, but not to our house, to his new roommates apt where he will sleep on the futon.


Is the remainder of his crap in trash bags yet? Get on it!


----------



## hurtinginohio

I know I'm doing the right thing, but it's killing me! How can someone who just a month ago was the kindest person I'd ever met, suddenly be so cold and cruel?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Hmm, your family should move on without him. Keep the focus on each other. Let him burn his bridges, it is his decision. Teach him a valuable lesson that there are so many transgressions that one can commit, before it is too late. If he wants to cut you out of his life, then let him go. I would let owh know about the relationship if possible. If your husband, or that guy you use to know, decided to come back around, you can show him the front door again.

View it from this angle, if things work out between them, he is not coming back. So don't put your life on hold for uncertainty, he is not worth it. Let them live in the reality that they created. If this is the path he chose, then he has to live with its consequences. He does not deserve to have a family waiting for him if he ever return. There is a good chance that their relationship will not last. They don't know each other really, and they have not dealt with stress together, nor deal with the others annoying behaviors.

Show him that you will not wait for him, and don't let him keep you around as a safety net if his relationship breaks. He did choose this over his family. Take yourself out of the competition for his affection.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> I know I'm doing the right thing, but it's killing me! How can someone who just a month ago was the kindest person I'd ever met, suddenly be so cold and cruel?


I know it's mind-boggling!!!! But it has happened to so many of us on here. Basically he's become an addict. Think of yourself as staging an intervention. So while he has changed, so must you...into a strong confident woman who is no man's doormat!

You got this!


----------



## karole

hurtinginohio said:


> I've changed all the passwords to all of my accounts, he'll never guess them.
> 
> He is coming "home" late tonight, but not to our house, to his new roommates apt *where he will sleep on the futon*.


Hope it has a big ol spinter sticking out of it that sticks him in the a$$ when he lays down!!!


----------



## Openminded

How can he be cold? Because he's in the fog of infatuation. All those lovely addictive chemicals of "love" swirling around his brain. But you blew his fantasy up and now he's mad. So, yes, the guy you knew is gone. He may come back though. Some do. 

You'll be okay either way.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

hurtinginohio said:


> I know I'm doing the right thing, but it's killing me! How can someone who just a month ago was the kindest person I'd ever met, suddenly be so cold and cruel?


Research: This is refering to infatuation.

"Dr. Helen Fisher, who works at Rutgers University as an evolutionary scientist, has done research on the subject of the effects of love, using MRI scans and other tests to determine what physical changes take place in the brain during love. Dr. Fisher classifies love as an addiction, because the same chemical changes occur in the brain with love as they do with drug use. The first stages of love can produce a high, and this can result in certain brain areas acting unusual. Risk taking is increased, a feeling of euphoria takes over, and the lovers can think of little else except each other. All of these reactions are caused by the limbic system in the brain, which changes the neurotransmitter levels. This area is what helps govern behavior, preventing obsession and reckless behavior, and love has the opposite effect and can increase this activity instead."


----------



## Trying95

Just like everyone else said he is under the fog. My WH became someone I barely knew. Also realize, it may not be just the fog that drives him. He may be very angry at you for something and that is what led him to stray in the first place. It is not your place to try to fix this but it may help you to understand what is driving the self centered cruelty to you.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Situational Narcissistic Reaction driven by his own body chemicals as if he had taken and actual addictive drug that has now been cut off.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

My heart hurts for you right now HIO.. Praying the Lords angels surround you.


----------



## turnera

Amplexor said:


> Don't, because that's what he wants you to do!


Remember he's in free fall. Every.single.moment today is ALL ABOUT fixing this, getting his reputation back, getting OW to want him again...

So every single action he does today - every word, every email, every call, every minute spent NOT contacting you...is part of a plan, part of his tactics, to put himself back on top, about getting his drug (OW) back, about NOT letting YOU dictate things. So just know that his sweet little jab of an email was done specifically to get a response out of you. So he's spending a TON of time wondering HOW you're responding.

Thus...no reason to respond.


----------



## hurtinginohio

thanks, I knew I could count on you guys for some tough love!

apparently he's been telling everyone that because of this we are DONE, it's divorce for sure! LOL, like it was even going to be up to him at this point!


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> thanks, I knew I could count on you guys for some tough love!
> 
> apparently he's been telling everyone that because of this we are DONE, it's divorce for sure! LOL, like it was even going to be up to him at this point!


Well actually he has just as much say in divorce as you do. I say it like this as even if you decide to and try to reconcile, if he has decided to only divorce, the marriage will never survive. It takes two giving their everything to even have the remotest possibility of making it work ad survive.


----------



## turnera

Had we known you were going to expose (and have you finished calling people?) we would have told you our 'list' of what he will say to you once you expose. Looks like this:

I was GOING to come back to you, but not now!
That's it! I'm going straight to the lawyer!
I was going to be nice but no more; I'm taking you to the cleaners!
My whole family/all our friends/add anyone else thinks you're crazy.
You've made a fool of yourself.
I was going to 'allow' you primary custody but no more - I'm taking our daughter and you can't stop me!
I'm going to ruin you!
OW and I laugh about you all the time, you're that pathetic.
We laugh about you in bed.

Stuff like that. All designed to hurt you. Ignore it all.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> thanks, I knew I could count on you guys for some tough love!
> 
> apparently he's been telling everyone that because of this we are DONE, it's divorce for sure! LOL, like it was even going to be up to him at this point!


The one who stays quiet is the one who people respect.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Right I get that, but I was saying that he was planning to meet and fvck her last night, but still wasn't 100% sure he wanted a divorce. Now that I ruined it for them, he does.

eta: this was in reply to squeakr


----------



## hurtinginohio

turnera said:


> The one who stays quiet is the one who people respect.


Yes, he deactivated his FB over the weekend and has been telling people he's sure I'm trashing him on there since he can no longer see it. I haven't mentioned him on there once! I posted a pic of DD's concert the other night and a funny link today, that's it! He's expecting this total outrage from me and it's not coming. I'm cool, calm and collected.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

He can choose where he wants to be

He can blameshift all he wants to, but this is the truth...

I could not keep my heart at home, so because if this I am divorcing.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Yes, he deactivated his FB over the weekend and has been telling people he's sure I'm trashing him on there since he can no longer see it. I haven't mentioned him on there once! I posted a pic of DD's concert the other night and a funny link today, that's it! He's expecting this total outrage from me and it's not coming. *I'm cool, calm and collected.*


Perfect choice


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> Right I get that, but I was saying that he was planning to meet and fvck her last night, but still wasn't 100% sure he wanted a divorce. Now that I ruined it for them, he does.
> 
> eta: this was in reply to squeakr


He doesn't know what he wants. He just knows that he didn't get to play with his shiny toy last night. Temper tantrum ensues...waaaahhhhh.

And agreed on the usual lines posted above. They all end up telling us a version of the same garbage. So predictable.

You are doing amazingly well!


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> Right I get that, but I was saying that he was planning to meet and fvck her last night, but still wasn't 100% sure he wanted a divorce. Now that I ruined it for them, he does.
> 
> eta: this was in reply to squeakr


I understand, but like I said he has just as much choice in this. Even if you wanted to save the marriage, without his support and participation, it will never happen. That is what I was getting at. It is not solely his or your choice, it is a mutual agreement.

He thinks he has the upper hand here, but it is an equal choice.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

turnera said:


> Had we known you were going to expose (and have you finished calling people?) we would have told you our 'list' of what he will say to you once you expose. Looks like this:
> 
> I was GOING to come back to you, but not now!
> That's it! I'm going straight to the lawyer!
> I was going to be nice but no more; I'm taking you to the cleaners!
> My whole family/all our friends/add anyone else thinks you're crazy.
> You've made a fool of yourself.
> I was going to 'allow' you primary custody but no more - I'm taking our daughter and you can't stop me!
> I'm going to ruin you!
> OW and I laugh about you all the time, you're that pathetic.
> We laugh about you in bed.
> 
> Stuff like that. All designed to hurt you. Ignore it all.



I wish I could see you in an argument with a cheater. It would be priceless. I can see you finishing their statements before they do.


----------



## hurtinginohio

yeah_right said:


> He doesn't know what he wants. He just knows that he didn't get to play with his shiny toy last night. Temper tantrum ensues...waaaahhhhh.
> 
> And agreed on the usual lines posted above. They all end up telling us a version of the same garbage. So predictable.
> 
> You are doing amazingly well!


Apparently he's been telling people that it's "fate" how they met and they're in loveeeeee. She is/was planning on divorcing her husband too. The ONLY thing I've expressed to mutual friends is how devastated I am and how I would have done anything to work on our problems given the chance. Only you guys and my BFF know about all the sleuthing I've been doing and how I've found everything out. Like you guys said, eyes open, mouth shut!


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Right I get that, but I was saying that he was planning to meet and fvck her last night, but still wasn't 100% sure he wanted a divorce. Now that I ruined it for them, he does.


What did I just tell you, though? ALL cheaters say the D word as soon as you expose. Even if they don't want it, even if they didn't mean it - all he cares about right now is hurting you. He knows you don't want to divorce, so that's what he'll say he'll do.


----------



## turnera

Mr.Fisty said:


> I wish I could see you in an argument with a cheater. It would be priceless. I can see you finishing their statements before they do.


OMG, that would be so FUN!


----------



## yeah_right

Squeakr - I get your point. If the WS is really, really done and set on divorce, there is nothing to be done. However, if the WS clears the fog and decides they want to save the marriage, it's really no longer their choice. When my H said he was not going to divorce me and that we would be married forever, I said "Dude...that's no longer your choice. It's mine." His reply..."Wow, that hurts". Ya think? Can't hurt as much as knowing you were replaced with someone else.

It can take a long time for the ramifications of their actions to really sink in. HIO - please prepare to hear a lot of idiotic things spewing from his mouth.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Ah, his logic is completely derailed. So if he would not allow you to sleep with ow, he was going to divorce you. Sounds entitled doesn't it. Someone should knock him back to earth. I would love to see you file instead. Seek help from your family, and show the cruelty he is aiming towards you, and hopefully you can send a message that you will not allow this type of behavior. Become the calm in the storm. Show your daughters your inner strength to stand up for yourself, and that when they are in a relationship, that they should not put up with this behavior. This is a teaching moment for you, and a learning moment for them. Show them that you will draw a line in the sand.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Yea, like "I was just helping her with her computer, she has tinnitis"

:scratchhead:

"if it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ0s0KUUpxo


----------



## Trying95

If she is planning on divorcing her husband then she should have told her husband..why the concern about exposure? Why didn't they meet up last night? Hmm, his crazy words don't add up....


----------



## turnera

btw, in case no one's mentioned it, you can file for divorce and then stop it at any time, if he pulls his head out of his ass. But him SEEING you file for divorce just may be the only thing that wakes him up. Well, that and having his kids hate his guts right now. Tell them, btw, that they're free to call him and give them a piece of their mind, that it just might make him stop.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well a quick check on the Verizon website showed they're still talking, but now she's calling him from where she works, at a school! HAHA! She's a secretary, bet the principal would love to have that tidbit of info!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Unless he's porking her too


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> Well, that and having his kids hate his guts right now. Tell them, btw, that they're free to call him and give them a piece of their mind, that it just might make him stop.


I don't recommend this as the only one that is really his is too young to be put into the middle of this and if he becomes vengeful, he will use the fact that Mom told her what was happening and a shark lawyer will jump all over that in a custody battle. This won't help her case.

The other kids are his step kids and this could just drive such a wedge that things said could be unable to be forgiven in the future, Best that the kids just remain out of it at this time and not take sides. My $0.02 but going through a nasty divorce at the time I can tell you anything and everything will be used for a vantage point and giving the other side full for their case is never recommended (and rarely is infidelity taken into account with custody unless it can show against the kids best interest to be with one or the other parents, which in the courts infidelity doesn't usually seem to matter, unless it was blatant, which it was;t as he hid it pretty well).


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> Well a quick check on the Verizon website showed they're still talking, but now she's calling him from where she works, at a school! HAHA! She's a secretary, bet the principal would love to have that tidbit of info!


Won't care in the least as long as the job is getting done and the AP is not a co-worker and the A is not being flaunted in front of kids. STBXW is a elementary teacher and it makes no difference, believe me I walked that route, of course her crappy work ethic did the trick for her (and now the new school is unaware of the past indiscretions only the poor work habits).


----------



## Mr.Fisty

If I were her, I would knock him off balance and shatter his arrogance and world view. I can be vicious sometimes. Go to the gym, work out, and act flirty. Get new clothes, and hit the town with friends and family. Tell him that he should file for divorce, and if he does not, you will. Minimize him, and tell him that he does not deserve you. You want a man that will cherish and love you.

Shatter the illusion that he has of his own self-importance. Only answer messages pertaining to the kids. Become an enigma to him. Show him what little power he really has on your happiness. He does not deserve the right to be privy to your inner self. All he gets is a mask. When he tries to ramble on about things not pertaining to the kids, ask him are we done yet. If so, I have more important matters to attend too. Of course this is me, and what I would do.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Mr.Fisty said:


> If I were her, I would knock him off balance and shatter his arrogance and world view. I can be vicious sometimes. Go to the gym, work out, and act flirty. Get new clothes, and hit the town with friends and family. Tell him that he should file for divorce, and if he does not, you will. Minimize him, and tell him that he does not deserve you. You want a man that will cherish and love you.
> 
> Shatter the illusion that he has of his own self-importance. Only answer messages pertaining to the kids. Become an enigma to him. Show him what little power he really has on your happiness. He does not deserve the right to be privy to your inner self. All he gets is a mask. When he tries to ramble on about things not pertaining to the kids, ask him are we done yet. If so, I have more important matters to attend too. Of course this is me, and what I would do.


I did this to my H for a while... he had NO idea how to respond to it.


----------



## thenub

I wish the men in the other threads that are going through the same things as you are had half the guts you do.
Stay strong for you and your daughter. He means nothing now!!


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



thenub said:


> I wish the men in the other threads that are going through the same things as you are had half the guts you do.
> Stay strong for you and your daughter. He means nothing now!!


This needs to be repeated. QFT!


----------



## Squeakr

thenub said:


> I wish the men in the other threads that are going through the same things as you are had half the guts you do.
> Stay strong for you and your daughter. He means nothing now!!


Why does it have to be like that?? It should be most of the BS in the other threads instead of picking on solely the men, because there are as many men as there are women kowtowing to their WS. This is not a gender specific, he said-she said situation. It is supporting a BS through their ordeal.


Of course I commend her in staying strong through this.


----------



## farsidejunky

Because men should expect more from other men. That is what that statement was all about to me.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

hurtinginohio said:


> Apparently he's been telling people that it's "fate" how they met and they're in loveeeeee. She is/was planning on divorcing her husband too. The ONLY thing I've expressed to mutual friends is how devastated I am and how I would have done anything to work on our problems given the chance. Only you guys and my BFF know about all the sleuthing I've been doing and how I've found everything out. Like you guys said, eyes open, mouth shut!


Mine did the same thing, they all do HIO. I'm sorry you're here but you're getting some great advice and doing great! Keep it up.

ETA: Don't be surprised if they tell people this gem: "I had already made my mind up that I was done and we would get a divorce BEFORE I started talking to OW"


----------



## yeah_right

OK, so let's be practical here. WH and OW are going divorce their spouses and get married after an online romance??? Which state are they going to live in? Which one is going to leave their home and kids?

So, I've seen the OW and some of her family online. She has known her H since she was in elementary school. It seems like she has lived in the same area all her life. Is she going to leave everything for this guy? Move away from her daughter who just started college? Is he going to quit his job and move to the other state? Have they thought about what holiday get-togethers will be like? The logistics alone don't bode well for them...let's forget that they will nuke two entire families in the process. So romantic.

Yeah...good luck with all that...


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> I know I'm doing the right thing, but it's killing me! How can someone who just a month ago was the kindest person I'd ever met, suddenly be so cold and cruel?


Hon, this is who he always was. His character has been revealed. We don't know who we are until we are tempted. 

"When people show you who they are, believe them."


----------



## Blossom Leigh

yeah_right said:


> OK, so let's be practical here. WH and OW are going divorce their spouses and get married after an online romance??? Which state are they going to live in? Which one is going to leave their home and kids?
> 
> So, I've seen the OW and some of her family online. She has known her H since she was in elementary school. It seems like she has lived in the same area all her life. Is she going to leave everything for this guy? Move away from her daughter who just started college? Is he going to quit his job and move to the other state? Have they thought about what holiday get-togethers will be like? The logistics alone don't bode well for them...let's forget that they will nuke two entire families in the process. So romantic.
> 
> Yeah...good luck with all that...


Quoted for Truth


----------



## Blossom Leigh

its who we all are jld... there isn't one who isnt

just some have learned 

some have yet to learn

and some temporarily come off the rails

manage the human that shows up


----------



## Squeakr

farsidejunky said:


> Because men should expect more from other men. That is what that statement was all about to me.


But why is that and what is more?? Your life is falling apart and everything you know has been pulled out from under you, yet your not supposed to show emotion, feelings, care for another or anything reveals that you are human?? Guess I don't get it or have lower expectations or just some sort of humanity to me??

I also don't see everyone on here baiting her and putting her down for her human reactions and emotions, like they do with a man. The ideal that kicking him into action all goes so far. Just saying.


----------



## Affaircare

hurtinginohio said:


> Apparently he's been telling people that it's "fate" how they met and they're in loveeeeee. She is/was planning on divorcing her husband too. The ONLY thing I've expressed to mutual friends is how devastated I am and how I would have done anything to work on our problems given the chance. Only you guys and my BFF know about all the sleuthing I've been doing and how I've found everything out. Like you guys said, eyes open, mouth shut!


Allow me to translate for you: 

"It is FATE that I stopped trying with my wife--the woman I made a promise to--and started putting all my energy into this other woman. She is also married. She is committing adultery too. She is planning to do to her family what I'm doing to mine--destroy the man she made promises to and harm her own children. This is the kind of woman I'm choosing to LOVE, not the woman who told the truth even when it was hard and scary." 

 

Do you have any idea what that says ABOUT HIM? and about you?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Affaircare said:


> Allow me to translate for you:
> 
> "It is FATE that I stopped trying with my wife--the woman I made a promise to--and started putting all my energy into this other woman. She is also married. She is committing adultery too. She is planning to do to her family what I'm doing to mine--destroy the man she made promises to and harm her own children. This is the kind of woman I'm choosing to LOVE, not the woman who told the truth even when it was hard and scary."
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any idea what that says ABOUT HIM? and about you?


Preach it Sister


----------



## Affaircare




----------



## Mr.Fisty

yeah_right said:


> OK, so let's be practical here. WH and OW are going divorce their spouses and get married after an online romance??? Which state are they going to live in? Which one is going to leave their home and kids?
> 
> So, I've seen the OW and some of her family online. She has known her H since she was in elementary school. It seems like she has lived in the same area all her life. Is she going to leave everything for this guy? Move away from her daughter who just started college? Is he going to quit his job and move to the other state? Have they thought about what holiday get-togethers will be like? The logistics alone don't bode well for them...let's forget that they will nuke two entire families in the process. So romantic.
> 
> Yeah...good luck with all that...



That is why they call it infatuation. They are blind to logic. Hoping that Hurting moves on before he realizes that and comes running home with his tail tuck between his legs. Sometimes in life, there is no such thing as a second chance. Not everyone gets one. That is why he should of cherished and protected what he has.


----------



## jld

We see this guy differently, Blossom. 

I want hurting to make the break in her mind. I want her to focus like a laser on all of his faults, and how much better her life is going to be without him.

I understand that you and YR made things work. But as I see it, hurting needs to proceed as if divorce were the only option. Personally, I think it is.


----------



## Squeakr

But this is for her to decide what she wants. I think she is getting excellent guidance for both outcomes, but it is ultimately her that needs to decide which way she wants to tread.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks for the compliments, I've surprised myself with my own strength this week.

But guess what?? OWH just called me! He suspected something was up & I gave him the gory details. He asked for a pic of H so I sent him one of the 2 of us all happy that he can use to confront her with. I cannot wait for sh!t to hit the fan!!


----------



## ButtPunch

Popcorn on the stove. Getting into my pj's
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

Hot buttered and feeted pj onesie???


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



Squeakr said:


> But why is that and what is more?? Your life is falling apart and everything you know has been pulled out from under you, yet your not supposed to show emotion, feelings, care for another or anything reveals that you are human?? Guess I don't get it or have lower expectations or just some sort of humanity to me??
> 
> I also don't see everyone on here baiting her and putting her down for her human reactions and emotions, like they do with a man. The ideal that kicking him into action all goes so far. Just saying.


Nobody said anything about showing emotions. HIO is showing strength and demonstrated time and time again that her emotions are very difficult to control, and she is hurting. Yet, she is making the right decisions at most if not every opportunity. Not perfection. Not emotionless. Strength.

Please refrain from extrapolating my very basic comments beyond what I actually said.

Sorry for T/J HIO. You are rocking it. Keep it up!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks for the compliments, I've surprised myself with my own strength this week.
> 
> But guess what?? OWH just called me! He suspected something was up & I gave him the gory details. He asked for a pic of H so I sent him one of the 2 of us all happy that he can use to confront her with. I cannot wait for sh!t to hit the fan!!


So awesome. Great job. 

I don't want to rain on the parade here, but the next thing for you is to figure out what YOU will do next. If he calls or emails in the next couple of days, confesses, apologizes, shows up on his knees that he doesn't know what he was thinking, promising to do whatever it takes to win you back, you need to know how to respond. (Or not at all)
What do YOU want if it goes down like that?


----------



## hurtinginohio

ButtPunch said:


> Popcorn on the stove. Getting into my pj's
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know! It's our very own lifetime movie unfolding right in front of us! Right now I find them both pathetic and laughable, it's hard to even be angry when I think of her trying to cover her tracks!


----------



## SadSamIAm

Tell the OWH about TAM and your thread. I am guessing he could use some advice.

He should be doing the same thing with his wife that you are doing to your husband.


----------



## Squeakr

farsidejunky said:


> Nobody said anything about showing emotions. HIO is showing strength and demonstrated time and time again that her emotions are very difficult to control, and she is hurting. Yet, she is making the right decisions at most if not every opportunity. Not perfection. Not emotionless. Strength.
> 
> Please refrain from extrapolating my very basic comments beyond what I actually said.
> 
> Sorry for T/J HIO. You are rocking it. Keep it up!


Feelings hurt? Sorry if so, but I never extrapolated anything, just added my take on what everyone expects from a man as they see it and I am allowed to do so. The "right" decision is a matter of opinion as lots on here don't agree with her actions being their are two paths to pursue and different endings for each.

I do agree on the last that she is holding up well.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Good idea! I told him to call me later if he wanted copies of the screen shots & other proof in case she denies it.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> Good idea! I told him to call me later if he wanted copies of the screen shots & other proof in case she denies it.


I did the same with the BWs of my STBXW's APs. It was nice to have backing, a united front, and to have people that understood the exact devastation that was occurring in our lives as most will never get it.


----------



## turnera

You should call him back and tell him to get it all printed out BEFORE he confronts her.


----------



## hurtinginohio

We'll that was 2 hours ago so I'm guessing they're in the middle of a crap storm right about now.


----------



## jld

Did he say if the daughter told him?


----------



## hurtinginohio

No just that she gave him my #. But he was suspecting something was up.


----------



## jld

At least your contact with her yielded something. I didn't think she would be able to keep it in.


----------



## Affaircare

I got meh 3-D glasses on and everything (so when it comes flying off the fan, it will look SO REAL)!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks for the compliments, I've surprised myself with my own strength this week.
> 
> But guess what?? OWH just called me! He suspected something was up & I gave him the gory details. He asked for a pic of H so I sent him one of the 2 of us all happy that he can use to confront her with. I cannot wait for sh!t to hit the fan!!



So grateful!!!! YES!!:smthumbup:


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Its ok we see him different jld.. no worries


----------



## Trying95

I'm so glad that OW is getting some of her own medicine. The OWH should definitely be referred to here. Whichever way it goes HIO, please be ready. He could either come crawling back or unleash a huge storm on you. Please let what he says roll off your back. If he does come crawling back, I would make him fix his head in therapy before even trying to sort out marriage counseling, or do it in conjunction.


----------



## farsidejunky

You could invite him to this thread...


----------



## 3putt

You're doing a great job. This is all new to you, but it's playing out exactly as we have seen so many times before.

And like someone said above, I wish some of our BHs had half the balls and guts as you.


----------



## hurtinginohio

OMG, he just sent my oldest daughter another text (she never replied to the first one) saying "please protect jane, you know what that means".

I substituted jane for youngest daughters name. But WTF? Is that supposed to mean? Protect her from what? Protecting her is his job!


----------



## farsidejunky

He is trying to paint you as crazy. Steel yourself for it.


----------



## hurtinginohio

O yes, OWH just left him a vm to stay the hell away from his wife or he could dal with him. Fist pump!


----------



## Squeakr

Protect her from either your "lies your telling about him" or your "reactions" which could be ugly. He is trying to put the kids in the middle to take the focus off of him and paint you in as negative of light as possible without making accusations. It is hitting the fan hard and he now knows about your contact with the OWH and how upset he possibly is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying95

He is unleashing the bad storm. Batten down your hatches and keep things as normal with your 11 year old as possible. Also, make sure your older daughter keeps those messages from him.


----------



## 3putt

Just brace yourself for more threats of divorce now, blah, blah, blah. Let it roll off your back though as it is expected.

Remember what I said about his anger and responses? The angrier he is, the more damage you have inflicted. And I would say you have sunk that ship.


----------



## hurtinginohio

See he assumes I'm bad mouthing him to her when in reality I don't mention him unless she brings him up then it's a very short conversation. He dug his own grave.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Remember the more normal and calm you act, the crazier he will look. Don't respond to him if he tries and contact you and save every text, voicemail, and message. It will show him as the unstable one. The more silent you are the more it will infuriate him, and he will lose his sh1t.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> OMG, he just sent my oldest daughter another text (she never replied to the first one) saying "please protect jane, you know what that means".
> 
> I substituted jane for youngest daughters name. But WTF? Is that supposed to mean? Protect her from what? Protecting her is his job!


What did I tell you? EVERYTHING he does from here on out is TO PROTECT HIM. To paint HIM in a better light, to give him ACCESS to his drug (OW), to force YOU into a corner. 

NOTHING he does for the next day, week, month is normal, healthy, or looking out for anyone else's interests.

Remember, EVERYTHING he says or does now is to be ignored.

Ok? 

And tell your daughters to expect crazy from him, and why.


----------



## Trying95

Mr.Fisty said:


> Remember the more normal and calm you act, the crazier he will look. Don't respond to him if he tries and contact you and save every text, voicemail, and message. It will show him as the unstable one. The more silent you are the more it will infuriate him, and he will lose his sh1t.


Very true!! I have witnessed it myself, in my own situation. Stay calm, it is infuriating to them.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Mr.Fisty said:


> Remember the more normal and calm you act, the crazier he will look. Don't respond to him if he tries and contact you and save every text, voicemail, and message. It will show him as the unstable one. The more silent you are the more it will infuriate him, and he will lose his sh1t.


Yep, he told several friends I'm probably trashing him on FB since he deactivated his account & can't see. Nope, no mention of him at all.


----------



## turnera

Mr.Fisty said:


> Remember the more normal and calm you act, the crazier he will look. Don't respond to him if he tries and contact you and save every text, voicemail, and message. It will show him as the unstable one. The more silent you are the more it will infuriate him, and he will lose his sh1t.


And the more angry he gets and the more he loses his sh*t, the less appealing he'll be to OW.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Haha, is it so bad that I want her to mess with his mind. He will do and say drastic crap to try and get a response. He will ask people if she is talking about him or asking about him. She should act like he does not exist to the people around her. Tam is a safe place for her to dump her emotions and vent. She should not inquire about him either.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Exactly I've stopped talking about him to any mutual friends. I only talk to coworkers, you new friends and my BFF who thinks he's being a major d bag.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Here's a text he just sent a mutual friend, o if he only knew I can see all his texts online.

9:50 PM
**** HER. and you can tell her that's from me.


----------



## farsidejunky

:rofl:


----------



## hurtinginohio

Right? You cheat, get caught so fvck me?!


----------



## farsidejunky

You are my new hero.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I need to change my screen name to laughingmya$$offinohio


----------



## 3putt

farsidejunky said:


> You are my new hero.


Agreed!!


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> I need to change my screen name to laughingmya$$offinohio


Pm a mod! Where is Deejo?


----------



## hurtinginohio

I really need to go to bed but I have to watch this unravel.


----------



## turnera

Did you tell your daughters to not reply?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

He is showing you the depths he can go, and he is showing you how ugly a person he can be. He is willing to sacrifice you and your daughters to get what he wants. He discarded you, and now he is playing damage control. He is trying to smear you while doing it, because he wants you to be lower than him. He will try and destroy your image to other people to seek validation for his actions. 

Just keep the evidence of his transgressions. Become the pillar of stability, and people will see that.

He is burning his bridges, and it is not just with you. People that care about you, he is turning them away from him. I am sure your pondering if you even want to get back together with this a$$. The person with the better self-control will look more like the sane one. Words of what he is doing will spread and he is adding fuel to his own fire.


----------



## hurtinginohio

turnera said:


> Did you tell your daughters to not reply?


O yes, none of them want anything to do with him right now, of their own accord.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> O yes, none of them want anything to do with him right now, of their own accord.


Smart girls!

And I hope you feel the same . . .


----------



## hurtinginohio

He just texted his mommy that he was heading that way, NY. Thank goodness, that means I don't have to worry about him coming around this weekend.


----------



## turnera

Gathering the wagons around what he can hope will protect him from his own fallout. Mommy! They're being mean to meeeeee!


----------



## hurtinginohio

Friends replied to his text, "whoa you ok?" He replied, "no, can't say anything more, she won".

What is it exactly that I won??


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> Friends replied to his text, "whoa you ok?" He replied, "no, can't say anything more, she won".
> 
> What is it exactly that I won??


Annoys me that they aren't giving him grief. 

You won your freedom, girl! From a guy who is not worthy of you!


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



hurtinginohio said:


> Friends replied to his text, "whoa you ok?" He replied, "no, can't say anything more, she won".
> 
> What is it exactly that I won??


He is acknowledging that you've outwitted him. 

For now.


----------



## hurtinginohio

O, he's gonna play up the victim big time to his friends and family. I won because another MAN is choosing to keep HIS family intact which is pissing off my H!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

This is the father their daughter who has made a horribly destructive choice. 

Only time will tell what their future choices will be.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> O, he's gonna play up the victim big time to his friends and family. I won because another MAN is choosing to keep HIS family intact which is pissing off my H!


Have you heard more on that front?

See, that is the kind of man you can find after you have divorced. A man with integrity, who, when there are challenges, rises up and does the right thing.

Oh, OP, there are better days coming for you!


----------



## hurtinginohio

OFFS! Here is the latest text to our "friend" I kid you not!

Never in my life would I have thought she would have done things like this. I'm glad I'm getting out. I just hope she doesn't have someone kill me.


----------



## hurtinginohio

The next one:

I beg you... We never talked. I just have this feeling.


Seriously? He is 50 shades of fvcked up!


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> OFFS! Here is the latest text to our "friend" I kid you not!
> 
> Never in my life would I have thought she would have done things like this. I'm glad I'm getting out. I just hope she doesn't have someone kill me.


:rofl:

What a coward!


----------



## hurtinginohio

What is it I have done? I really want to know what that is? Does he mean contacting her family? That's all I've done, he was the one setting up hotel escapades.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Sad to say that he is quite dense, and is making himself to be insane. Let him complain all he wants, people will get sick of it. When your enemy is destroying himself, you simply allow him and place your energy elsewhere. The more you and others ignore him, the louder he will try and shout. The more he will lose his sh1t. It has already started.


----------



## turnera

hurting, calm down.

What have I told you at least 3 times? IGNORE whatever he says and does because ALL OF IT is done ONLY to PRESERVE his image.

this has NOTHING to do with you. And you know it. 

IGNORE IT ALL.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes, DD and I have a very full weekend and I'm glad I don't have to worry about him being around, I really hope he goes to NY. He probably wants to hide out there since he assumes I've hired a hit man.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

farsidejunky said:


> He is acknowledging that you've outwitted him.
> 
> For now.


 Sad part is it did not take a lot to do so.


----------



## jld

Totally agree with Turnera. Don't take this to heart. It is not about _you._


----------



## hurtinginohio

O I know that, I'm just pissed he has my friends thinking I could be on an episode of Snapped! Like I'm the one mentally unstable, seriously he told them I was unstable!


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> O I know that, I'm just pissed he has my friends thinking I could be on an episode of Snapped! Like I'm the one mentally unstable, seriously he told them I was unstable!


Let it roll off your back like rain . . .


----------



## alte Dame

hurtinginohio said:


> What is it I have done? I really want to know what that is? Does he mean contacting her family? That's all I've done, he was the one setting up hotel escapades.


I hope you can forgive me for butting in here so many pages into your thread, but I have kept up with it and wanted to make one comment, to wit:

In my opinion, he thinks that your contacting the OW's family was beyond the pale because you were supposed to act 'noble' in your sadness and loss. His idea of noble was for you to wave a kiss goodbye, tears streaming down your face, as he rode off into the sunset with his new soulmate to find his bliss. You would have done this because you love him and want only the best for him. You were supposed to be 'mature' and quietly, and in a 'dignified' way, accept his decision to leave.

Instead, you blew up his dream. It doesn't occur to him in his lunacy that you, in fact, did the truly noble thing. You let the OWH know that two people were secretly making the most personal decisions about his (the OWH's) life and marriage, decisions that he had every right to know about.

I hope you won't ever let your WH make you defensive about your exposure. It was the decent thing to do.


----------



## hurtinginohio

And my favorite he just sent when "friend" asked what they should say to me we talked, "11:15 PM
Tell her to go **** herself. With a bow on top."


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> O I know that, I'm just pissed he has my friends thinking I could be on an episode of Snapped! Like I'm the one mentally unstable, seriously he told them I was unstable!


YOU are taking the high road. YOU are acting with integrity. How long do you think his schtick will last, when they compare you with him, and see that YOU aren't being ridiculous, saying outrageous things? It's only a couple of days. Give it time. 

BE INVISIBLE!


----------



## Mr.Fisty

You should remember this when he comes crawling back. Take pictures of him on his hands and knees, and throw the copies of what he wrote at him. Then walk away. See, he was not this great guy you thought he was after all.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

And stop internalizing


----------



## hurtinginohio

Seriously, I thank my lucky stars that in my searching I found this forum! I don't know how I would have survived the last month without you! Hopefully someday my experience can help someone else, although wouldn't it be great if there was no need for this forum?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Just keep presenting yourself as the calm, stable, and mature one. People do get tired of others antics. The more attention he draws on himself, the more you look like the sane one.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



Mr.Fisty said:


> Sad part is it did not take a lot to do so.


He counted on her to be naive and weak. He counted wrong.


----------



## hurtinginohio

We'll it was good while it lasted, he changed the Verizon PW again. O well, I know what I need to know!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Go to sleep  You need your rest


----------



## yeah_right

Wowsers...I leave for a few hours and miss all the action. I am happy to hear that the OWH is now aware. He deserved to know. Plus now OW will be super busy dealing with her family and HIO's WH won't be top priority...so he'll run home to his mommy this weekend. Awwwww. 

Yep, this is all par for the course. Do your best to ignore him. I know I sound like a broken record but do not communicate with him except for the health of the 11 year old. And keep your appointment with the attorney tomorrow!!!!

You have done incredibly well. I'm sure your head is buzzing and your guts are churning. Running through every emotion at the same time. All totally normal. Post happy pics of you and your daughter at the run this weekend on Facebook. Keep it classy. You did nothing wrong.

I give you a slow clap in your honor...


----------



## Affaircare

hurtinginohio said:


> We'll it was good while it lasted, he changed the Verizon PW again. O well, I know what I need to know!


You got that right--if you spent the rest of your time watching what he says to "friends" on his cell account, you're not really "moving on" or living your own life, are ya?  

So you know what you need to know. 

You know he's going to try to spin it that YOU are the bad guy and he is the poor, suffering victim of .... (dare I say it?) ... ABUSE!!

Yes...it is abuse now to expect your partner to keep his promises. It is abuse to expect your spouse to keep his pants on around others. It is abuse to get angry if he spends marital money on wooing another woman. It is abuse if you tell THE TRUTH!! 

Meanwhile, it is NOT abuse to lie, cheat and steal from your own children. It is NOT abuse to destroy your own wife and children, and the other woman's husband and their children. It is NOT abuse to sexually crave a person who is not your spouse. It is NOT abuse to spend family money on a adulterer!

OY...it makes my head spin. I think I better get off the merry-go-round for a while


----------



## Affaircare

Oh that reminds me. I wanted to share a short story with you about something my exH used to do that used to really confuse me. 

He used to scream and scream and scream at me for hours that it was abusive for me to speak to him in a tone that was "that tone of voice." Now assuming the worst--that my "tone" was very angry and harsh sounding--if my speaking a few sentences to him "in a tone of voice" was abusive...

... wouldn't it follow that hours and hours of screaming was also abusive? Maybe even MORE abusive?










See...that's the kind of "logic" you will be dealing with, HIO. The kind that makes your head say: "Did you just listen to what you said? Because that was so stupid you could not possibly have meant it seriously. Were you kidding? No...that was too weird and earnest to be joking. You can't MEAN that! Can you? Could you really believe what your mouth just said? NO!!!"


----------



## Blossom Leigh

"If it weren't for my horse I wouldn't have spent that year in college...."


----------



## hurtinginohio

Woke up to a text today telling me I have to the end of business day to transfer my cell phone or it will be deactivated. He is punishing me what I used to blow a hole in his fantasy.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Woke up to a text today telling me I have to the end of business day to transfer my cell phone or it will be deactivated. He is punishing me what I used to blow a hole in his fantasy.


I would buy a separate phone with my own package and do nothing with the old number. He is trying to force a reaction and he needs to see or hear nothing in response to his demands. Transferring is obedience to his punishment. I would not give him that gratification. Then you have a new phone number too


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Good job on not responding. Don't communicate with him unless it is about the children. When he goes off topic, end the conversation. He will try and bait you into a response, and if your self-aware, you have a better chance of avoiding it. From now on, view yourself as a single woman, and he is now your crazy ex. Your not in a real marriage now, and it is only legal papers stating such. Emotionally, you know your not a couple. Your personal goal is to be fine whether he is in your life or not. You want to gain that level of independence.

So keep making him look like the unstable one, and don't sink to his level. People will get tired of his negativity, and his radical behavior. Eventually they will not want to hear his bullsh1t. 

Remember you have a support system around you, that their are people that care about you. Lean on them, that is what they are there for. Use their help to get back on your feet.

Remember focus your time and energy elsewhere. Get plenty of rest. A healthy mind is more capable of dealing and sorting through the crap. Make yourself busy, and do things you find enjoyable.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



Blossom Leigh said:


> I would buy a separate phone with my own package and do nothing with the old number. He is trying to force a reaction and he needs to see or hear nothing in response to his demands. Transferring is obedience to his punishment. I would not give him that gratification. Then you have a new phone number too


This is perfect. It will leave him wondering.


----------



## thenub

I would really recommend transferring half of any funds from any joint accounts to your own personal account. You have to protect your daughter and yourself from any financial upheaval.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I think I'll keep my number for now, it would be a huge hassle to make sure all family, friends, school, work colleagues, etc. had my new number and that's just another stress I don't need right now.

11 year old just got a text from him saying "no matter what I love you with all my heart". He's trying to do damage control with her assuming I've been trashing him to her.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

hurtinginohio said:


> I think I'll keep my number for now, it would be a huge hassle to make sure all family, friends, school, work colleagues, etc. had my new number and that's just another stress I don't need right now.
> 
> 11 year old just got a text from him saying "no matter what I love you with all my heart". He's trying to do damage control with her assuming I've been trashing him to her.




He is doing a fine job on his own. Why does he need your help? Just be the stable and constant force in her life. Keep bonding with her through action and and all he has is words.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Ugh.. wish you could skirt him on this one. 

He's going to feel gratification that his aggression was effective.

My first reaction was to be more direct with him and shut him down hard.

But oh well.. I would love to ring his bell.


----------



## Squeakr

Affaircare said:


> Oh that reminds me. I wanted to share a short story with you about something my exH used to do that used to really confuse me.
> 
> He used to scream and scream and scream at me for hours that it was abusive for me to speak to him in a tone that was "that tone of voice." Now assuming the worst--that my "tone" was very angry and harsh sounding--if my speaking a few sentences to him "in a tone of voice" was abusive...
> 
> ... wouldn't it follow that hours and hours of screaming was also abusive? Maybe even MORE abusive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See...that's the kind of "logic" you will be dealing with, HIO. The kind that makes your head say: "Did you just listen to what you said? Because that was so stupid you could not possibly have meant it seriously. Were you kidding? No...that was too weird and earnest to be joking. You can't MEAN that! Can you? Could you really believe what your mouth just said? NO!!!"


Spinning this to be abuse is where most WS go and tow that line so that they can justify their actions. It is something that will never be won. The same scenario you are presenting can and will be twisted no matter what happened. If they were ignored, it would be... abuse, yelled at...abuse, loved too much....controlling/ ergo abuse. This is a no win situation as you will be painted as the abuser no matter your reaction. I don't need to tel how I know this.


----------



## Squeakr

HIO, Consider yourself somewhat lucky that you can no longer see the texts, as it will be hard to forget what you have seen and the WS has said and therefor talk to friends without turning it into a defense plea, taking that time to undo and defend your stance on everything. As much as we want to know what is happening, sometimes it is best to be kept in the dark on some things to preserve some semblance of a normal and productive life outside of this mess.

Hopefully the friends are smart enough to question that his side is the "truth" and know that two sides exist to every story and not prejudge solely based upon his rantings. If they don't then you know whom are your true friends and whom to cut out of your life to be able to heal and move on better.


----------



## yeah_right

If he cuts off your phone, how will he communicate with you????? He's simply not using his brain right now! Is your name on the account? If not, how are you going to change it anyway?

I would also be on the side of getting a brand new number, but I understand if you've had the same number for years. However, if you do change it, don't respond to him...just do it, and move your daughter's phone too.

It's obvious your silence is driving him nuts so he's looking for ways to bait you...to prove to himself how "crazy" you are.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> Woke up to a text today telling me I have to the end of business day to transfer my cell phone or it will be deactivated. He is punishing me what I used to blow a hole in his fantasy.


I would transfer the number to a prepaid and get myself another number. This way it stays alive as long as you need it to (to notify and get in touch with friends that don't yet have the new number, and the second reason he wants it gone, as the OWH has the number so he wants to stop communication between the two of you. Deactivating the line is how he think she can control it. Make sure and jot down that number somewhere lest he has a way to kill the phone and delete the information from a distance. This way you at least have his number. I would also contact him and get an email and another number from him that OW can't do the same with, so you can at least maintain contact and support each other, should that be what he wants (make sure and ask OWH if he is okay with that to insure it is).


----------



## jld

Doesn't matter what other people think. It is irrelevant.

Just do what needs to be done. Leave him in the past. Pursue the divorce, keep your job, raise your daughter. 

Accept what is unavoidable, but don't take it personally. Move on, starting in your own mind.


----------



## Squeakr

yeah_right said:


> If he cuts off your phone, how will he communicate with you????? He's simply not using his brain right now! Is your name on the account? If not, how are you going to change it anyway?
> 
> I would also be on the side of getting a brand new number, but I understand if you've had the same number for years. However, if you do change it, don't respond to him...just do it, and move your daughter's phone too.
> 
> It's obvious your silence is driving him nuts so he's looking for ways to bait you...to prove to himself how "crazy" you are.


He already stated to her in email that he is keeping the daughter's phone on his account, has given her authorization to take her number, and has changed her power over the account as he is the account owner, so she can't touch the daughter's number, unless the rep is willing to risk his job to make it happen.


----------



## Squeakr

Mr.Fisty said:


> Good job on not responding. Don't communicate with him unless it is about the children. When he goes off topic, end the conversation. He will try and bait you into a response, and if your self-aware, you have a better chance of avoiding it. From now on, view yourself as a single woman, and he is now your crazy ex. Your not in a real marriage now, and it is only legal papers stating such. Emotionally, you know your not a couple. Your personal goal is to be fine whether he is in your life or not. You want to gain that level of independence.
> 
> So keep making him look like the unstable one, and don't sink to his level. People will get tired of his negativity, and his radical behavior. Eventually they will not want to hear his bullsh1t.
> 
> Remember you have a support system around you, that their are people that care about you. Lean on them, that is what they are there for. Use their help to get back on your feet.
> 
> Remember focus your time and energy elsewhere. Get plenty of rest. A healthy mind is more capable of dealing and sorting through the crap. Make yourself busy, and do things you find enjoyable.


This above only holds true for good people and those you'd want to be associated with. There will always be lots of people that will support him through is BS and be there for him no matter what he does. There are toxic people in every walk of life. I thought what is written above but have found out in practice it is not true. Some people will always be there for him, as they did for my STBXW. They just never see nor care about the destruction and bad character that the WS exhibits and are willing to stay. As long as the WS have them, they are less likely to change anything and come out of their "fog".


----------



## Blossom Leigh

yeah_right said:


> If he cuts off your phone, how will he communicate with you????? He's simply not using his brain right now! Is your name on the account? If not, how are you going to change it anyway?
> 
> I would also be on the side of getting a brand new number, but I understand if you've had the same number for years. However, if you do change it, don't respond to him...just do it, and move your daughter's phone too.
> 
> It's obvious your silence is driving him nuts so he's looking for ways to bait you...to prove to himself how "crazy" you are.


See, I'm totally with you YR, I would just not give him that satisfaction of having any power over me at this point. He lost that influence when he made a destructive choice. 

He is literally regressing to teenage lash out at parents phase... that is how I would handle him. My H was in that mode and I treated him as an adolescent addict in two ways. 1. I didn't enable his destructive choices (I refused to be complicit) and 2. I enacted boundaries where needed. (Calm VERY assertive). until he relented and began making constructive loving choices. THEN I relaxed. It's the release that teaches


----------



## jld

Squeakr said:


> This above only holds true for good people and those you'd want to be associated with. There will always be lots of people that will support him through is BS and be there for him no matter what he does. There are toxic people in every walk of life. I thought what is written above but have found out in practice it is not true. Some people will always be there for him, as they did for my STBXW. They just never see nor care about the destruction and bad character that the WS exhibits and are willing to stay. As long as the WS have them, they are less likely to change anything and come out of their "fog".


Who cares if he comes out of it? Who cares about him and his supporters at all?


----------



## yeah_right

Squeakr said:


> He already stated to her in email that he is keeping the daughter's phone on his account, has given her authorization to take her number, and has changed her power over the account as he is the account owner, so she can't touch the daughter's number, unless the rep is willing to risk his job to make it happen.


Then for the daughter I'd get her a new phone number completely...she's 11 so it's no big deal. Daughter can text the new number to her dad and voila! He can deal with the old number. If HIO's going to be raising the girl alone, she needs to control the child's phone.


----------



## Squeakr

jld said:


> Who cares if he comes out of it? Who cares about him and his supporters at all?


Easy to say, but hard to do in practice, when his cheering section is now the entire group of friends that you shared and they all view you as the cause and bad person. 

I understand your position, but it is human nature to want to be accepted and not hated. In my case it hurt when the few friends I had were "our" friends and they all chose her side. I had very little support group, and it is hard to start "everything" over again. I know it is "strong" and common to say who cares, but deep down inside we all do. 

Whether you care to admit it is true or not (say you don't care and I'll challenge you on that, as otherwise you wouldn't be on here giving a total stranger your love and support). We all want to be accepted.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

jld said:


> Doesn't matter what other people think. It is irrelevant.
> 
> Just do what needs to be done. Leave him in the past. Pursue the divorce, keep your job, raise your daughter.
> 
> Accept what is unavoidable, but don't take it personally. Move on, starting in your own mind.


jld, she has her daughter to consider... this is HER father. How he is handled going forward is very important. This may not be a cut and run situation and it is too early to make the determination if this is salvageable or not. There are no guarantees with the next man she engages either. She can make the changes needed whether she stays with him or moves on. 

Just like a friend of mine who went through four horses trying to find the right one when they all kept running off with her. She finally realized... OH, it's me. I need to ask for more respect. Me on the other hand still have my two original horses ten years later who used to be very unruly who are now responsive, respectful and loving. You manage the behavior that shows up in that moment, that is where the secret is. 

She has to determine if this is a chronic pattern or situational and if she has the strength to do it until the task is finished and what trumps it all is the impact on her daughter. This is what drove my decision to reconcile. I still loved my H deeply regardless of what he had done, and I could see his momentary blindness as plain as day, so I choose to stay differently or leave knowing I could not do status quo. His ungrateful disrespect had to go which was fueling his anger issues. So I put my foot down for him to get the help he needed to be a healthy functioning member of our family while I did the same and it has had a massive impact on our son who is healing as he watches his parents heal. It can be done. She does not have to throw this man away, the one she trusted enough to take as her husband. It depends on many factors going forward, so this "just throw him away right now and get another" attitude is really bothersome. I know he threw her away in his serious lapse in judgement, but she does not have to make the same choice.


----------



## Squeakr

yeah_right said:


> Then for the daughter I'd get her a new phone number completely...she's 11 so it's no big deal. Daughter can text the new number to her dad and voila! He can deal with the old number. If HIO's going to be raising the girl alone, she needs to control the child's phone.


While I agree, in theory, not knowing her finances, sometimes in practice it is not as easy at it appears. I try to not assume that everyone is in any position to do anything specific and just offer up the answers based upon the facts.

I agree this would be a good option, but I wasn't offering options just providing the answers to your questions regarding the daughter's phone, and she still has control of the daughter's phone as she can take it at will, just ask my STBXW that keeps taking my girls phones away that I pay for (and I am the BS).


----------



## hurtinginohio

Squeakr said:


> Easy to say, but hard to do in practice, when his cheering section is now the entire group of friends that you shared and they all view you as the cause and bad person.
> 
> I understand your position, but it is human nature to want to be accepted and not hated. In my case it hurt when the few friends I had were "our" friends and they all chose her side. I had very little support group, and it is hard to start "everything" over again. I know it is "strong" and common to say who cares, but deep down inside we all do.
> 
> Whether you care to admit it is true or not (say you don't care and I'll challenge you on that, as otherwise you wouldn't be on here giving a total stranger your love and support). We all want to be accepted.


yes the fact that his mother was texting him (a 40 year old man) telling him she wished she could make it all better for him. What about your grandchildren who miss their father?? How about working to make it better for THEM! I do care that people are buying into his bs and thinking I'M the unstable one. But, I will continue to be cool, calm and collected and hope that eventually they will all see his true colors.


----------



## Squeakr

Blossom Leigh said:


> jld, she has her daughter to consider... this is HER father. How he is handled going forward is very important. This may not be a cut and run situation and it is too early to make the determination if this is salvageable or not. There are no guarantees with the next man she engages either. She can make the changes needed whether she stays with him or moves on.
> 
> Just like a friend of mine who went through four horses trying to find the right one when they all kept running off with her. She finally realized... OH, it's me. I need to ask for more respect. Me on the other hand still have my two original horses ten years later who used to be very unruly who are now responsive, respectful and loving. You manage the behavior that shows up in that moment, that is where the secret is.
> 
> She has to determine if this is a chronic pattern or situational and if she has the strength to do it until the task is finished and what trumps it all is the impact on her daughter. This is what drove my decision to reconcile. I still loved my H deeply regardless of what he had done, and I could see his momentary blindness as plain as day, so I choose to stay differently or leave knowing I could not do status quo. His ungrateful disrespect had to go which was fueling his anger issues. So I put my foot down for him to get the help he needed to be a healthy functioning member of our family while I did the same and it has had a massive impact on our son who is healing as he watches his parents heal. It can be done. She does not have to throw this man away, the one she trusted enough to take as her husband. It depends on many factors going forward, so this "just throw him away right now and get another" attitude is really bothersome. I know he threw her away in his serious lapse in judgement, but she does not have to make the same choice.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: Not everyone is of the throw away crowd and do actually care about others and what they think and they return the same. It is what good friendships and bonds are drawn off of.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Your H is my H's age...


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> yes the fact that his mother was texting him (a 40 year old man) telling him she wished she could make it all better for him. What about your grandchildren who miss their father?? How about working to make it better for THEM! I do care that people are buying into his bs and thinking I'M the unstable one. But, I will continue to be cool, calm and collected and hope that eventually they will all see his true colors.


This is what we all try to do.. You are doing wonderful as it is hard to do this when everything you have worked for, lived and dreamed for, and built is crumbling around you. Wishing you the best.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> I think I'll keep my number for now, it would be a huge hassle to make sure all family, friends, school, work colleagues, etc. had my new number and that's just another stress I don't need right now.


Personally, I would print out my entire contact list, go get a new plan, and then send a text to every one of your joint contacts or your personal ones, stating "I'm having to get a new phone because H started an affair and we are now separating assets. Here's my new number."

Can you imagine how fast that will get back to him? And you're not slandering, you're telling the exact truth.

How's THAT for a consequence? And all because HE chose to break up the phone contract.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Blossom Leigh said:


> Your H is my H's age...


He turned 40 in May and I believe sometime in late summer started his MLC, started talking to her toward the end of Oct. So yes, this has been a 6 week online/phone relationship that was his "destiny".


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> Personally, I would print out my entire contact list, go get a new plan, and then send a text to every one of your joint contacts or your personal ones, stating "I'm having to get a new phone because H started an affair and we are now separating assets. Here's my new number."
> 
> Can you imagine how fast that will get back to him? And you're not slandering, you're telling the exact truth.
> 
> How's THAT for a consequence? And all because HE chose to break up the phone contract.


Might not be slander, but it is vindictive and not viewed very kindly by judges in a custody battle, should it get nasty. As much as I like this idea, I would recommend against doing anything that would create a paper trail and could be used against you in a custody battle (and I specifically say custody as most Judges couldn't care less in property and D settlements, but in custody they are looking at character and what is best for the child(ten) of the situation). You want to keep your negative actions to a minimum, but after the custody is worked out, then GAME ON!


----------



## Trying95

My H was 42 when he started all his crap. He is also an only child, but thank goodness my Mother and Father-in Law were on my side and our daughter's side. Our daughter was the same age yours is now. I wonder if it has something to do with only child men who reach their early 40s? I see a trend?


----------



## yeah_right

Or just send all the contacts a text saying -

"So excited! Got a great deal on a new phone contract, so please update me in your contacts list to 555-555-5555."

Include WH in the list of receivers.

Success is the best revenge.


----------



## turnera

> I wonder if it has something to do with only child men who reach their early 40s? I see a trend?


Of course. They're raised to believe they're a special snowflake and that they can have/get anything they want. And by the time they're 40, they realize they really AREN'T going to become president of the company or a billionaire or invent the cure to cancer, so they start to scan for anything that will still make them feel as special as mommy did.


----------



## turnera

yeah_right said:


> Or just send all the contacts a text saying -
> 
> "So excited! Got a great deal on a new phone contract, so please update me in your contacts list to 555-555-5555."
> 
> 
> Success is the best revenge.


I like it, but right now she's not set on divorce. So the best outcome at this point is to get him to stop cheating. Flaming the affair is the best way to do that in the near term. IMO. But I like yours too.


----------



## Squeakr

Or Just "Due to tragic and unforeseen circumstances, I have been forced to change my phone number. The new number is xxx-xxx-xxxx."

This says it was unexpected and unwanted (to clue in those that don't know), and gets the new number out there. If they don't already know and are concerned then they will contact you and everything can be explained as you see fit (but I wouldn't do it through something like text that can be called as evidence or used against you, and through voice only). No negative trail exists and no talking badly about the other exists but the point gets across to the contacts.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes I'm really just trying to fly under the radar here, especially because of my daughter. If I send out a message like that it will just add more fuel to the fire and I'm too emotionally drained to fight any more fires right now.

He as now as of last night and this morning texted all 3 daughters that "no matter what I'll always love you". Puleeeseee


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> He turned 40 in May and I believe sometime in late summer started his MLC, started talking to her toward the end of Oct. So yes, this has been a 6 week online/phone relationship that was his "destiny".


Yep, my H's was about that long in total.


----------



## Squeakr

Trying95 said:


> My H was 42 when he started all his crap. He is also an only child, but thank goodness my Mother and Father-in Law were on my side and our daughter's side. Our daughter was the same age yours is now. I wonder if it has something to do with only child men who reach their early 40s? I see a trend?


I think it is just the realization that one is no longer younger and they are starting to contemplate the changes life has to come. It happens for men and women, only children or members of a brood. It is the landmark ages, 40 and 50 and the length of marriage as well.


----------



## hurtinginohio

His Instagram post this morning? the sunrise with this caption "that moment when you realize there is more to today than yesterday's problems" #onedayatatime #newbeginnings #newtraditions

I'm guessing by yesterday's problems he means me, not the wrath of the OWH and the end to their fantasy.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Of course. They're raised to believe they're a special snowflake and that they can have/get anything they want. And by the time they're 40, they realize they really AREN'T going to become president of the company or a billionaire or invent the cure to cancer, so they start to scan for anything that will still make them feel as special as mommy did.


Not my only son... I make it very known to him that he won't get that crap past me already at the age of 5.


----------



## yeah_right

turnera said:


> I like it, but right now she's not set on divorce. So the best outcome at this point is to get him to stop cheating. Flaming the affair is the best way to do that in the near term. IMO. But I like yours too.


A message like this does not burn bridges. It simply says she got a great deal on a cell rate, not that her H is a lying, cheating d-bag. I'm just trying to come up with ways for her to not be cut off from cell service...and without letting him think he has control over her.

I'm not on the divorce train yet either. I'm in R so I know it can work. But WH should not be driving the bus right now with critical concerns to family like cell phones, finances, mortgages, investments, etc. He's still in the fog and anything he sees as a "win" won't help to clear his head.


----------



## jld

Blossom Leigh said:


> jld, she has her daughter to consider... this is HER father. How he is handled going forward is very important. This may not be a cut and run situation and it is too early to make the determination if this is salvageable or not. There are no guarantees with the next man she engages either. She can make the changes needed whether she stays with him or moves on.
> 
> Just like a friend of mine who went through four horses trying to find the right one when they all kept running off with her. She finally realized... OH, it's me. I need to ask for more respect. Me on the other hand still have my two original horses ten years later who used to be very unruly who are now responsive, respectful and loving. You manage the behavior that shows up in that moment, that is where the secret is.
> 
> She has to determine if this is a chronic pattern or situational and if she has the strength to do it until the task is finished and what trumps it all is the impact on her daughter. This is what drove my decision to reconcile. I still loved my H deeply regardless of what he had done, and I could see his momentary blindness as plain as day, so I choose to stay differently or leave knowing I could not do status quo. His ungrateful disrespect had to go which was fueling his anger issues. So I put my foot down for him to get the help he needed to be a healthy functioning member of our family while I did the same and it has had a massive impact on our son who is healing as he watches his parents heal. It can be done. She does not have to throw this man away, the one she trusted enough to take as her husband. It depends on many factors going forward, so this "just throw him away right now and get another" attitude is really bothersome. I know he threw her away in his serious lapse in judgement, but she does not have to make the same choice.


Let me try to explain myself better. Think of me as hurting's mother. I don't care about her "husband". I am just looking out for my daughter and my granddaughter. And you bet I am furious at my "son-in-law."

I don't want her thinking about him. And I'm not really pushing the idea of a better guy on her, either, as much as trying to bring perspective. What I really want is for her to disengage emotionally from him, so that she can take decisions completely rationally in the best interests of her and her daughter.

Looking at it through those eyes, does what I am saying make sense?


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> His Instagram post this morning? the sunrise with this caption "that moment when you realize there is more to today than yesterday's problems" #onedayatatime #newbeginnings #newtraditions
> 
> I'm guessing by yesterday's problems he means me, not the wrath of the OWH and the end to their fantasy.


Don't look at any of his online pages. He's posting crap to get under your skin. IGNORE.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

jld said:


> Let me try to explain myself better. Think of me as hurting's mother. I don't care about her "husband". I am just looking out for my daughter and my granddaughter. And you bet I am furious at my "son-in-law."
> 
> I don't want her thinking about him. And I'm not really pushing the idea of a better guy on her, either, as much as trying to bring perspective. What I really want is for her to disengage emotionally from him, so that she can take decisions completely rationally in the best interests of her and her daughter.
> 
> Looking at it through those eyes, does what I am saying make sense?


Perfect sense. This is the same change that will facilitate either reconciliation OR divorce. So we are speaking the same language just coming from two different doors to get at the same table.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> His Instagram post this morning? the sunrise with this caption "that moment when you realize there is more to today than yesterday's problems" #onedayatatime #newbeginnings #newtraditions
> 
> I'm guessing by yesterday's problems he means me, not the wrath of the OWH and the end to their fantasy.


There is definitely some delusion in that post of his...


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Yes I'm really just trying to fly under the radar here, especially because of my daughter. If I send out a message like that it will just add more fuel to the fire and I'm too emotionally drained to fight any more fires right now.


Then just use yeahright's idea. I mean, really, you don't have much choice, do you? So be proactive and show him he ISN'T getting under your skin. Best way to get him back is to make him fear he's losing you.


----------



## Squeakr

jld said:


> Let me try to explain myself better. Think of me as hurting's mother. I don't care about her "husband". I am just looking out for my daughter and my granddaughter. And you bet I am furious at my "son-in-law."
> 
> I don't want her thinking about him. And I'm not really pushing the idea of a better guy on her, either, as much as trying to bring perspective. What I really want is for her to disengage emotionally from him, so that she can take decisions completely rationally in the best interests of her and her daughter.
> 
> Looking at it through those eyes, does what I am saying make sense?


It makes sense, but matters of the heart can never be judged rationally and probably shouldn't ever be attempted as too many variables. Rational would say this is out of character, and several years of good marriage, therefor I should try to work it out and excuse this heinous acts, or the opposite which is that such a large percentage of Ms end in D and no one can ever truly forget this act or once a cheater always a cheater, so cut the loss and move on. Rational is not the only ball in play here, as love is not a rational thing to be explained.


----------



## hurtinginohio

yeah_right said:


> Don't look at any of his online pages. He's posting crap to get under your skin. IGNORE.


You're right. I even unfollowed him a few days ago, but DD still follows him and showed me this morning. I will block him from her account too.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

omg I bet that hurt her.. 

so sorry she saw that


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> His Instagram post this morning? the sunrise with this caption "that moment when you realize there is more to today than yesterday's problems" #onedayatatime #newbeginnings #newtraditions
> 
> I'm guessing by yesterday's problems he means me, not the wrath of the OWH and the end to their fantasy.


Try not to read into anything and stop tracking him. It could be that he has lost you, her, his kids, and is realizing that he needs to just start fresh? Could be related to OW? Only he knows and he may be just posting this to get both of you thinking??


----------



## jld

Squeakr said:


> It makes sense, but matters of the heart can never be judged rationally and probably shouldn't ever be attempted as too many variables. Rational would say this is out of character, and several years of good marriage, therefor I should try to work it out and excuse this heinous acts, or the opposite which is that such a large percentage of Ms end in D and no one can ever truly forget this act or once a cheater always a cheater, so cut the loss and move on. Rational is not the only ball in play here, as love is not a rational thing to be explained.


I am concerned about codependency here, squeakr. This man has taken a strong stand against his family. I think she needs to take an equally strong stand for her daughter and herself.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> You're right. I even unfollowed him a few days ago, but DD still follows him and showed me this morning. I will block him from her account too.


This is why I haven't let my children have social media pages to limit their exposure. Too much bad out there and they are too young to know the difference and differentiate, so I just keep it from them altogether.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> You're right. I even unfollowed him a few days ago, but DD still follows him and showed me this morning. I will block him from her account too.


What do you think about asking her first? Explaining to her why you would like to do what you want to do, and making sure she understands. Moving forward, I think her buy-in would prevent possible power struggles between you two, in various areas.

Just an idea. You know her and the situation best.


----------



## ButtPunch

hurtinginohio said:


> His Instagram post this morning? the sunrise with this caption "that moment when you realize there is more to today than yesterday's problems" #onedayatatime #newbeginnings #newtraditions


The fog is strong with this one.

Keep doing what you're doing. At this point, I don't think the spying is helping you anymore except for keeping us entertained.

My lifetime movie was two years ago. I promise you will get thru this.


----------



## Squeakr

jld said:


> I am concerned about codependency here, squeakr. This man has taken a strong stand against his family. I think she needs to take an equally strong stand for her daughter and herself.


I can see your point, but remember even no stand or choice is always a choice. She is not responding and that is sending her position loud and clear just as much as lashing out could. He is scrambling to get anything from her and when he does then he wins, no matter how she responds as that is what he wants.



In the immortal words of the band RUSH:

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." - Rush, Freewill


----------



## jld

Squeakr said:


> I can see your point, but remember even no stand or choice is always a choice. She is not responding and that is sending her position loud and clear just as much as lashing out could. He is scrambling to get anything from her and when he does then he wins, no matter how she responds as that is what he wants.
> 
> In the immortal words of the band RUSH:
> 
> "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." - Rush, Freewill


I am not recommending lashing out, though I do not think she should refrain from letting people know what he has done, as appropriate.

I want to see her moving forward, taking him at his actions, which right now, to me, point clearly towards divorce.

But I am the follower, not the leader, in my marriage, so this is undoubtedly coloring my view on the whole situation.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

The natural reaction of a child will be to have him away when its hurting but then change later to wanting them close when the pain stops, so be careful in basing your decision on only this, which jld is not advocating, but still this is why I would ask my son to guage if he felt safe. He ended up feeling safe around his Dad before I felt safe around his Dad, so I told him to trust me on knowing when it was time for Dad to come home. I made the final call. I definitely did NOT ask or allow him to come home before my son felt safe.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

yeah_right said:


> Or just send all the contacts a text saying -
> 
> "So excited! Got a great deal on a new phone contract, so please update me in your contacts list to 555-555-5555."
> 
> Include WH in the list of receivers.
> 
> Success is the best revenge.


How did you guess my number. Lol.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Just keep bonding with your daughters. If you have the support of your daughters, people will wonder. Plus, after the child custody hearing, and you have evidence of his bad behavior, it will bite him the a$$. 

Your being more tactful is all. Later on, expose to everyone, and show them the recording of him abusing you emotionally, show them his ugly side. Let people know about the affair and how he abandoned his own family. Show him as the crazy one. Give him nothing in return, and let him escalate hisbehavior while you record away. If he is shown making threats, people will take a second look at him.


----------



## Squeakr

jld said:


> I am not recommending lashing out, though I do not think she should refrain from letting people know what he has done, as appropriate.


Yes, but if you haven't gone through a D and don't know what lawyers are capable of, then recommending that at this point she can easily hurt her case even further by revealing things that Judges wouldn't look kindly upon. Any talk against the other parent is highly frowned upon. I say that she hold this until things are decided. She needs to speak out to save or end her M, that is her choice, but make sure and not do anything to hurt the parenting aspect. No matter how heinous he is as a spouse, she owes it to her children to not ruin their image of their father (something I wish my STBXW would realize), as they will have to co-parent either way.


----------



## jld

Squeakr said:


> Yes, but if you haven't gone through a D and don't know what lawyers are capable of, then recommending that at this point she can easily hurt her case even further by revealing things that Judges wouldn't look kindly upon. Any talk against the other parent is highly frowned upon. I say that she hold this until things are decided. She needs to speak out to save or end her M, that is her choice, but make sure and not do anything to hurt the parenting aspect. No matter how heinous he is as a spouse, she owes it to her children to not ruin their image of their father (something I wish my STBXW would realize), as they will have to co-parent either way.


I guess that is a good point, just not exposing at all, but moving forward on a divorce, once you know his actions (when she realized he was indeed having an affair).

ETA: Just reread your post. Pretty hard to separate out the parent from the husband, I would imagine. The character tends to spill over, I would think. Best of luck negotiating this, Hio.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

The co-parenting issue is the other reason I stuck to reconciliation as long as my H was capable and willing. Parenting gets WAY more complex when two step parents enter the picture. I decided that if we could coparent well, we could be married well because it takes the same skill set.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

If you have a facebook account. If you want, you can state that your daughters are the source of your strength. Their love and support gives you hope.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I did post a pic the other day of the 3 of them baking cookies and my comment was just "I love my little Christmas elves!"


----------



## Squeakr

Blossom Leigh said:


> The co-parenting issue is the other reason I stuck to reconciliation as long as my H was capable and willing. Parenting gets WAY more complex when two step parents enter the picture. I decided that if we could coparent well, we could be married well because it takes the same skill set.


I can see what you are saying, but it is not the same. When you are co-parenting, you only have to trust in that they are wiling and can do what is best for the kids. When it comes to marriage you must apply the sam thoughts, but then you must also be able to forgive and forget all the heinous things they have done against you directly (which they have done bad things against the family and children, but not directly against the children generally). 

Your case is different in that your H never went PA, which is a big issue for many people (not downplaying the EA part, but generally those that have PA also have the EA as well, so a double whammy, and then their is the ideal that they also put your life on the line with STD exposure just for their personal gratification). Although I could allow the parenting, I could never live with the other (believe me as I know this, as I tried the R and it was not possible for me. Others might be able to but not me and I tried.)


----------



## Trying95

hurtinginohio said:


> You're right. I even unfollowed him a few days ago, but DD still follows him and showed me this morning. I will block him from her account too.


This just breaks my heart for your daughter.


----------



## Abc123wife

hurtinginohio said:


> Yes I'm really just trying to fly under the radar here, especially because of my daughter. If I send out a message like that it will just add more fuel to the fire and I'm too emotionally drained to fight any more fires right now.
> 
> He as now as of last night and this morning texted all 3 daughters that* "no matter what I'll always love you"*. Puleeeseee


Depending on how your older daughters feel about this whole situation, it might be appropriate for them to simple reply something like this. "Anyone who truly loves me would not trash my mother to others or abandon all of us on a whim for some women you started an affair with on line. Please stop making your infidelity issues public and do not text me again." Then maybe they can block his number.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Squeakr said:


> I can see what you are saying, but it is not the same. When you are co-parenting, you only have to trust in that they are wiling and can do what is best for the kids. When it comes to marriage you must apply the sam thoughts, but then you must also be able to forgive and forget all the heinous things they have done against you directly (which they have done bad things against the family and children, but not directly against the children generally).
> 
> Your case is different in that your H never went PA, which is a big issue for many people (not downplaying the EA part, but generally those that have PA also have the EA as well, so a double whammy, and then their is the ideal that they also put your life on the line with STD exposure just for their personal gratification). Although I could allow the parenting, I could never live with the other (believe me as I know this, as I tried the R and it was not possible for me. Others might be able to but not me and I tried.)


In my case it did take the same skills between the two

His affair was partially PA.. just not consummated.


----------



## alte Dame

I think that he is being extra maudlin now because his plans have gone so fantastically awry that he now feels like a man without a country.

Just a few days ago, the future looked bright in his affairland brain - he had 'come clean' with you about his cyber affair; he had the OW on side; he could explain to his children that 'these things happen in life' and 'daddy will always be there' and 'sometimes things just don't work out with adults and it's not about them'; friends would understand that divorces happen, etc.

Now, within the span of a few days, you have gone dark on him (better known as his cheating a*s), his older daughters won't respond to his texts because they know what he was doing, the OWH is out for blood, and his paranoia tells him that you could be a physical threat to him. He's actually made himself afraid to come back to your home. He's adrift and is heading for some safe port, like a man on the lam. (Not to make light of your pain, but he reminds me of an Elmore Leonard character.)

In my opinion, the advice for you to sit tight and stay outwardly calm and steady is good advice. He is panicked right now and acting out as a result. See your attorney, get through the day, keep your young daughter on as even a keel as possible.

He may well spend some time this weekend plotting how to confront you, with an attorney or other backup. I would get my own plan in place with my own attorney, if I were you, so that you can be prepared when he shows up.

He seems to be blaming you for the way his fantasy has crashed and burned, but the reality of his own responsibility will eventually intrude. He will figure out soon enough how hare-brained his thinking has been. Even if OW is his destiny, he should have followed the rules. The two of them should have divorced in a civilized way before making hotel reservations. This truth will eventually sink in.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

if he stays out long enough he will be slammed with abandonment in the courts.


----------



## jld

Blossom Leigh said:


> In my case it did take the same skills between the two
> 
> His affair was partially PA.. just not consummated.


That must have been so frightening to you. I am amazed you had the presence of mind to stop things.

Sorry for the t/j, hurting. Back to you!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

jld said:


> That must have been so frightening to you. I am amazed you had the presence of mind to stop things.
> 
> Sorry for the t/j, hurting. Back to you!


It was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life.

So I hurt for you HIO... All the best strength to you and you have been in my prayers.


----------



## Squeakr

Abc123wife said:


> Depending on how your older daughters feel about this whole situation, it might be appropriate for them to simple reply something like this. "Anyone who truly loves me would not trash my mother to others or abandon all of us on a whim for some women you started an affair with on line. Please stop making your infidelity issues public and do not text me again." Then maybe they can block his number.


Not a good response as this just says that Mom is talking about Dad and he will see it as trashing just as she has. No need to put the children in the middle here. Let them stand on their own.


----------



## Squeakr

Blossom Leigh said:


> if he stays out long enough he will be slammed with abandonment in the courts.


Actually as long as he is maintaining contact and hasn't withdrawn support for the family (finances, etc) he has at least 30 days in most states before they consider this. Even then as long as he is maintaining contact, which he is through texts, then it won't happen.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Squeakr said:


> Actually as long as he is maintaining contact and hasn't withdrawn support for the family (finances, etc) he has at least 30 days in most states before they consider this. Even then as long as he is maintaining contact, which he is through texts, then it won't happen.


Gotcha... I knew there was a timeframe.. didn't know about the contact. Did know about financial.


----------



## Squeakr

Blossom Leigh said:


> Gotcha... I knew there was a timeframe.. didn't know about the contact. Did know about financial.


Matters about the contact, as the parent can then show that they are not keeping their children out of their life fully, and l;its of times will use the circumstances as the reason for being "away" from the children and not due them not wanting to be in the lives. I have also been told as long as it is stated that they "intend to come back when things are better" and don't withdraw support then that is sufficient sometimes to keep an abandonment charge from being granted.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I wonder how far he's going to take this.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

To be honest , his world is crumbling, and he is holding onto all that he can. He is protecting his interest and self. He wants to keep what pieces he has left. That is why he is trying to garner sympathy and slander you in the process. 

Since he views himself as the tragic hero in all this, you turned into his adversary. Even his messages to his friends point out, look at what she has done to me. All the things that he is doing is out of desperation. He can't deal with his guilt so he compartmentalized it away. Remember, he sees himself as the victim in all of this.

Hurting, you are the hammer of reality smashing his illusions away. Your not letting him hide from his consequences. Your a casulty, and so is both families of these two people. Now you have to look after yourself, and your daughters. The priority has now become you and the children, and seeking what is best for you and them. There is no relationship to focus on, he has become your opponent, and he will try and take everything away.


----------



## Squeakr

This is probably the exact same thing that he is wondering about her??

Like a wounded animal backed into a corner he is going to do whatever he feels necessary to protect.


----------



## jld

Wow, Mr.F, you think he sees himself as a _victim?_


----------



## Squeakr

Mr.Fisty said:


> That is why he is trying to garner sympathy and* slander* you in the process.


We do not know this as a truth, but it might be happening. We do know that he is hurt, upset, and embarrassed and is saying things that later he may regret, but we can only assume he is slandering her. Saying "F her" and "how can she do this to me" aren't slander but just the desperate rantings of someone struggling to regain control and save face. He may actually have enough character to now slander her. I know that when I discovered the STBXW, as mad as I was, I tried not to slander her or allow anyone to do the same, as I wasn't sure how the fallout would affect my children. He may be doing the same, as no matter what he thinks of her at this point she is still the mother of his child(ren).


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Blossom Leigh said:


> I wonder how far he's going to take this.


 Oh, I plan on giving her advice to make her the victor. This is now all about strategy and mind games. the goal is to keep him off balance and guessing. He is already acting eratically, and the more composure she shows, the more eratic he will be.

Next time she goes out with her daughters, i want them to take plenty of pictures of them being a happy family. As soon as the divorce papers are filed,, I want her to take pictures with male friends. Leave it as a mystery. Make new friends., and post their picture online.


----------



## Squeakr

jld said:


> Wow, Mr.F, you think he sees himself as a _victim?_


He probably does. If he is like most WS, he has rewritten the history in his head, so that he feels he is justified in everything he has done and is doing. Like most WS, he has made himself out to be the one that has been wrong'd all these years and is now standing up for himself. He is using the actions of her to show and prove that everything he "thought" is true. He can now say "see what I was talking about. This proves it", so he can walk away with his head held high. My STBXW and all the others WS I know have done the same thing. Paint the BS as the persecutor so they don't have to feel bad about what they are doing.


----------



## Squeakr

Mr.Fisty said:


> As soon as the divorce papers are filed,, I want her to take pictures with male friends. Leave it as a mystery. Make new friends., and post their picture online.


Only do this if the lawyer advises it is okay. Otherwise these social postings can be seen as a negative thing against her. He could use it to paint her as an unfit parent as see how she is now interacting with all these men and flaunting it. Take the lawyers advice and keep the "flaunting" to a minimum, as these things don't look good in custody battles if that is what happens.


I hate to sound like Debbie Downer, but sometimes these types of retaliation are best left until after everything is settled, so as to insure the barest minimum of evidence that can be used against one in court. The whole ounce of prevention thing.....


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Mr.Fisty said:


> To be honest , his world is crumbling, and he is holding onto all that he can. He is protecting his interest and self. He wants to keep what pieces he has left. That is why he is trying to garner sympathy and slander you in the process.
> 
> Since he views himself as the tragic hero in all this, you turned into his adversary. Even his messages to his friends point out, look at what she has done to me. All the things that he is doing is out of desperation. He can't deal with his guilt so he compartmentalized it away. Remember, he sees himself as the victim in all of this.
> 
> Hurting, you are the hammer of reality smashing his illusions away. Your not letting him hide from his consequences. Your a casulty, and so is both families of these two people. Now you have to look after yourself, and your daughters. The priority has now become you and the children, and seeking what is best for you and them. There is no relationship to focus on, he has become your opponent, and he will try and take everything away.


This is exactly what she needs to be doing because until he becomes rational again is capacity for any relationship is seriously compromised. Great insights.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

jld said:


> Wow, Mr.F, you think he sees himself as a _victim?_



I think he sees himself as such. The indignity he feels for her intervening. It is like he is on an addiction drug, and Hurting is taking away his affair drug. He is going through the withdrawal, and the pain of not being with the ow. Hurting is the wall keeping them apart. The infatuation stage is he stage of obsession. That is why he can simply abandoned his family. Because he is hurting, he sees h.i.o. as the source of his pain. After all, he sees him and the ow as destined.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Squeakr said:


> Only do this if the lawyer advises it is okay. Otherwise these social postings can be seen as a negative thing against her. He could use it to paint her as an unfit parent as see how she is now interacting with all these men and flaunting it. Take the lawyers advice and keep the "flaunting" to a minimum, as these things don't look good in custody battles if that is what happens.
> 
> 
> I hate to sound like Debbie Downer, but sometimes these types of retaliation are best left until after everything is settled, so as to insure the barest minimum of evidence that can be used against one in court. The whole ounce of prevention thing.....


----------



## jld

Mr.Fisty said:


> I think he sees himself as such. The indignity he feels for her intervening. It is like he is on an addiction drug, and Hurting is taking away his affair drug. He is going through the withdrawal, and the pain of not being with the ow. Hurting is the wall keeping them apart. The infatuation stage is he stage of obsession. That is why he can simply abandoned his family. Because he is hurting, he sees h.i.o. as the source of his pain. After all, he sees him and the ow as destined.


Wow, I never would have guessed all that. _I_ sure don't see _him_ as a victim.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



jld said:


> Wow, Mr.F, you think he sees himself as a _victim?_


I think Fisty is correct. This is exactly why he ran home to mama.


----------



## jld

farsidejunky said:


> I think Fisty is correct. This is exactly why he ran home to mama.


A true coward. Smh.

And I suppose his folks will enable him, making him feel justified in his *victimhood.* Unbelievable.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

It's why it is so HARD to navigate this time because they see themselves as victims when in REALITY it is the opposite.


----------



## Squeakr

jld said:


> Wow, I never would have guessed all that. _I_ sure don't see _him_ as a victim.


This is why several on here have been going against some of your recommendations (not anything against you). You are seeing him as doing everything as cold and calculating and purposeful in his actions and intentions. Lots of us having been through this have seen he actuality that they are scared and will do anything to justify their behavior and turn it to make them the victim (which is why I hate some of the guidelines for identifying abuse, as when the WS paint their picture, they become the victim lots of times and the BS because the abusive and guilty party responsible for all that rains down upon them, no matter whether true or not, this is how it is perceived).


----------



## thenub

If he has the password to the Verizon account, can't he also read your messages as well? I would consider using another phone just in case he can.
Just a thought.
Stay strong.


----------



## Squeakr

thenub said:


> If he has the password to the Verizon account, can't he also read your messages as well? I would consider using another phone just in case he can.
> Just a thought.
> Stay strong.


Won't matter in a few hours anyway, as he is canceling the number by the end of the day if she doesn't get it in her name.

:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## hurtinginohio

Squeakr said:


> He probably does. If he is like most WS, he has rewritten the history in his head, so that he feels he is justified in everything he has done and is doing. Like most WS, he has made himself out to be the one that has been wrong'd all these years and is now standing up for himself. He is using the actions of her to show and prove that everything he "thought" is true. He can now say "see what I was talking about. This proves it", so he can walk away with his head held high. My STBXW and all the others WS I know have done the same thing. Paint the BS as the persecutor so they don't have to feel bad about what they are doing.


This is totally true! He's telling people we were going to split up before he ever met the OW, news to me! That we've been in a miserable marriage for years, again, news to me!


----------



## jld

Squeakr said:


> This is why several on here have been going against some of your recommendations (not anything against you). You are seeing him as doing everything as cold and calculating and purposeful in his actions and intentions. Lots of us having been through this have seen he actuality that they are scared and will do anything to justify their behavior and turn it to make them the victim (which is why I hate some of the guidelines for identifying abuse, as when the WS paint their picture, they become the victim lots of times and the BS because the abusive and guilty party responsible for all that rains down upon them, no matter whether true or not, this is how it is perceived).


It is good to have an open conversation. And you are right, I have not been through it. Experience makes a world of difference.

But I also get a codependency feel from some posts. That just does not feel healthy to me. And I cannot see myself taking charge of my marriage, ever. 

Well, if my husband fell ill, sure. But infidelity? I would have lost too much respect for him. His integrity, and my respect for that integrity, is the foundation of our marriage. Without that, it just would not be a marriage anymore, at least to me.

ETA: Could you be specific about which recs you disagree with? I am basically arguing for a straightforward divorce. Mr. Blunt said he divorced and remarried his wife, after she proved herself to him. I think that is a good model.


----------



## hurtinginohio

thenub said:


> If he has the password to the Verizon account, can't he also read your messages as well? I would consider using another phone just in case he can.
> Just a thought.
> Stay strong.


I deleted all of mine off the account and haven't texted anyone at all today. I do plan on calling several more attorneys just to have those numbers show up on the phone bill before I switch over!


----------



## jld

You're meeting with the lawyer today, right?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

hurtinginohio said:


> I deleted all of mine off the account and haven't texted anyone at all today. I do plan on calling several more attorneys just to have those numbers show up on the phone bill before I switch over!



You make me so proud. Your showing him that you will not simply stand by, plus your willing to mess with him. Misdirection and deception is yor friend.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes, at 4.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> This is totally true! He's telling people we were going to split up before he ever met the OW, news to me! That we've been in a miserable marriage for years, again, news to me!


Totally normal behavior and comments from a WS. Rewriting history to justify their misconduct.

To jld - No one on here sees him as a victim. But he surely does see himself that way. In my situation, I was such a "mean wife" to make my H end conduct with his "bff". I was tormenting him, not allowing him to have fun, yada, yada, yada. 

In my mind I was thinking, "Who is this idiot man-child?" I'm not as nice as Blossom, who from the start said she would stick by her H. I was ready to divorce. But two years out I can see that my H's reactions were so bizarre and unlike him. It's like a chemical imbalance in their brains.


----------



## jld

And it has really been worth it, YR?

I was thinking about what you were saying yesterday, about the kids and having 20 years together. I can certainly understand the appeal of that.

Ultimately I think it's what each of us can handle. You and Blossom can handle a lot.


----------



## yeah_right

jld said:


> And it has really been worth it, YR?
> 
> I was thinking about what you were saying yesterday, about the kids and having 20 years together. I can certainly understand the appeal of that.
> 
> Ultimately I think it's what each of us can handle. You and Blossom can handle a lot.


I will say that I don't think my H's EA was as bad as some of the others on TAM. There was no sex, no alcohol, no drugs, no violence or abuse. He NEVER wanted to leave me and NEVER trashed me to anyone. Just my best friend, lover and father of my children temporarily replacing me with someone else for his emotional support/recreational companionship/whatever. He was a cake-eating dumba$$!

Today I am 99% happy. He is back to normal and better because he has improved boundaries and I am better because I focus more on the marriage than I used to. We are a great team, like we have been for over 20 years. There is 1% of me that is still p!ssed/bitter/sad, and probably always will be. I also don't trust him fully and won't let myself ever. It sucks.

It's also easier for me because my kids are out of the house and I am financially able to take care of myself if we would ever split. That is a freedom not all women possess. I stay with my H because I love him, but I no longer need him. He knows it. It's sad. He also knows that I won't go through anything like that again. Even a whiff and I'm out. So, I'm not as nice as Blossom. LOL


----------



## Squeakr

jld said:


> It is good to have an open conversation. And you are right, I have not been through it. Experience makes a world of difference.
> 
> But I also get a codependency feel from some posts. That just does not feel healthy to me. And I cannot see myself taking charge of my marriage, ever.
> 
> Well, if my husband fell ill, sure. But infidelity? I would have lost too much respect for him. His integrity, and my respect for that integrity, is the foundation of our marriage. Without that, it just would not be a marriage anymore, at least to me.
> 
> ETA: Could you be specific about which recs you disagree with? I am basically arguing for a straightforward divorce. Mr. Blunt said he divorced and remarried his wife, after she proved herself to him. I think that is a good model.


I understand your point, but read enough around here and you will see this is not always the case. Lots that have been in your position of "I have this boundary and once crossed, I am done!" (myself included at one time) for some unknown reason when faced with the demise of our marriage and families, changed our viewpoint and decided to try and R, as we saw the "possible" greater good for the family, kids, and ourselves. Yes it is co-dependency, but it isn't something that just having someone stating it is there is going to make you say, "yep, there it is, I see it now, and am out of here!" We can be beaten over the head with it and aren't going to change for we are locked in fear. 

As for the recs I am referring to, those would be the ones that are burn the bridges and get out at all costs. Blossom, YR, and myself, have recommended against the hell bound, D, and get out at all cost ideals. I can tell that even though you are set now, when faced with it directly you will be tested in your resolve and strength, if you are startng to add in exceptions such as "well maybe in illness" when the SHTF you will start adding in more possibly. Once you start setting limitations then when faced with it, your resolves can easily change.

I am speculating here I admit, but I imagine that HIO is so set in her decisions and situation better than most because this is not the first time she has been faced with such issues. She has kids that aren't his so she has probably been through a prior marriage and D or at least the role of a single parent, so her strengths are a little bit more than the average person on here for the first rodeo.

I would imagine it is like cheating in that once that boundary/ line is crossed each subsequent time it becomes easier. For D I would think so (and have had people that have done it several times tell me it is nothing as if they are jaded to it from having done it so much) because you know that you can be single again and survive, whereas those on the first go around are completely unsure of a single future again, especially one with kids involved, and she has been there before on both cases. This can help to ease her resolve a little (it still hurts like hell, but she knows what is on the other side having been there before).


----------



## jld

Squeakr said:


> I am speculating here I admit, but I imagine that HIO is so set in her decisions and situation better than most because this is not the first time she has been faced with such issues. She has kids that aren't his so she has probably been through a prior marriage and D or at least the role of a single parent, so her strengths are a little bit more than the average person on here for the first rodeo.
> 
> I would imagine it is like cheating in that once that boundary/ line is crossed each subsequent time it becomes easier. For D I would think so (and have had people that have done it several times tell me it is nothing as if they are jaded to it from having done it so much) because you know that you can be single again and survive, whereas those on the first go around are completely unsure of a single future again, especially one with kids involved, and she has been there before on both cases. This can help to ease her resolve a little (it still hurts like hell, but she knows what is on the other side having been there before).


Does that seem pretty accurate, hurting?


----------



## hurtinginohio

No, divorce for me is not easier the 2nd time around. My first H and I were very young when we married and never really got along, it was just a matter of time. This time, I thought I had found my mate for life and was completely blindsided. We also have more assets now so it will make everything a lot more complicated.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> No, divorce for me is not easier the 2nd time around. My first H and I were very young when we married and never really got along, it was just a matter of time. This time, I thought I had found my mate for life and was completely blindsided. We also have more assets now so it will make everything a lot more complicated.


Sorry and completely understand that.

Is the anxiety caused by thinking about being a single parent and on your own again, easier/ lessened this time around knowing that you can do it from past experience? 

Just wondering as this is my first (and hopefully last) time around with this??


----------



## Blossom Leigh

yeah_right said:


> I will say that I don't think my H's EA was as bad as some of the others on TAM. There was no sex, no alcohol, no drugs, no violence or abuse. He NEVER wanted to leave me and NEVER trashed me to anyone. Just my best friend, lover and father of my children temporarily replacing me with someone else for his emotional support/recreational companionship/whatever. He was a cake-eating dumba$$!
> 
> Today I am 99% happy. He is back to normal and better because he has improved boundaries and I am better because I focus more on the marriage than I used to. We are a great team, like we have been for over 20 years. There is 1% of me that is still p!ssed/bitter/sad, and probably always will be. I also don't trust him fully and won't let myself ever. It sucks.
> 
> It's also easier for me because my kids are out of the house and I am financially able to take care of myself if we would ever split. That is a freedom not all women possess. I stay with my H because I love him, but I no longer need him. He knows it. It's sad. He also knows that I won't go through anything like that again. Even a whiff and I'm out. So, I'm not as nice as Blossom. LOL


Where in the world are y'all getting the idea that I'm too nice to my H? Lol...

It has been told to him, touch me in abuse... Cops, charges, period.

Cheat again, divorce, period.

My H did not get off "easy"... It took me a while to get to divorce stage, 16 months, but him seeing my pain was brutal. He struggled with suicide urges.

The moment I realized he was snared and caught in the rapids, yes, I threw him a life line, but to describe what happened after that is nothing but sheer hell let me assure you.  Blossom ain't no pu$$y cat.


----------



## yeah_right

Blossom Leigh said:


> Blossom ain't no pu$$y cat.


No, but you possess more grace than me. I admire that.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Squeakr said:


> Sorry and completely understand that.
> 
> Is the anxiety caused by thinking about being a single parent and on your own again, easier/ lessened this time around knowing that you can do it from past experience?
> 
> Just wondering as this is my first (and hopefully last) time around with this??


No, he has always worked so much that I do most of the parenting anyway. I think it's the anxiety of losing my best friend, my partner. Even though he's now being a total jacka$$, it was/is a very, very big loss in my life. My entire routine and way of life has been turned upside down. Of course I'm worried about finances too, but that's secondary.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

yeah_right said:


> No, but you possess more grace than me. I admire that.



Ahhhh... Now I'm trackin'. Thank you...

I like to blend my backbone with grace.. it is my preference.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> No, he has always worked so much that I do most of the parenting anyway. I think it's the anxiety of losing my best friend, my partner. Even though he's now being a total jacka$$, it was/is a very, very big loss in my life. My entire routine and way of life has been turned upside down. Of course I'm worried about finances too, but that's secondary.


Again, these are all normal feelings you're going through. And I'm still not convinced that D is inevitable...although your H is not making it easy for himself with his tantrums.

Right now, the goal is still to kill that affair like stomping a ****roach with a boot. After that, you can see what needs to be fixed, or if it even can. After 20+ years, we found ourselves disconnecting...me focused on the kids, him on work. You know, the usual. After the EA ended, then we worked on reconnecting, communicating and focusing on each other. But you're not to that point yet. Not even close.

ETA: Seriously? They bleeped c0ckroach?


----------



## Trying95

yeah_right said:


> I will say that I don't think my H's EA was as bad as some of the others on TAM. There was no sex, no alcohol, no drugs, no violence or abuse. He NEVER wanted to leave me and NEVER trashed me to anyone. Just my best friend, lover and father of my children temporarily replacing me with someone else for his emotional support/recreational companionship/whatever. He was a cake-eating dumba$$!
> 
> Today I am 99% happy. He is back to normal and better because he has improved boundaries and I am better because I focus more on the marriage than I used to. We are a great team, like we have been for over 20 years. There is 1% of me that is still p!ssed/bitter/sad, and probably always will be. I also don't trust him fully and won't let myself ever. It sucks.
> 
> It's also easier for me because my kids are out of the house and I am financially able to take care of myself if we would ever split. That is a freedom not all women possess. I stay with my H because I love him, but I no longer need him. He knows it. It's sad. He also knows that I won't go through anything like that again. Even a whiff and I'm out. So, I'm not as nice as Blossom. LOL


Very similar to my situation- mine kept saying I was controlling everything and he didn't like that. He had no control, he was the victim, I was the bad guy for a long time. Even when he lied straight to my face. In their brains, they are the victims.


----------



## Squeakr

Trying95 said:


> Very similar to my situation- mine kept saying I was controlling everything and he didn't like that. He had no control, he was the victim, I was the bad guy for a long time. Even when he lied straight to my face. In their brains, they are the victims.


My WW said the same thing to everyone but me. To my face she said we were happy and had a great marriage and everyone looked up t us as the role model of a good couple. I thought we were in a rut and mentioned so, and she just wrote it off as stress, financial concerns, kids, and life in general. NOT the same thing she told all her friends (lots of our friends that never told me) and all of her APs. I really was in the dark and blindsided when I discovered.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

jld said:


> Does that seem pretty accurate, hurting?




It is all about the mindset, perceptions, and expectations. Some people ave a romantic notion of marriage, and see their s.o. as their soul mate, that they struggle a lot with letting go. Their identity is fused so strongly as one being, that the loss of that person is paramount to them feeling like they are losing a part of themselves. They have to learn to accept that the other has their own identity and they are their own entity.

There are some who marry and only stay together as long as their fulfilling each other's needs. When that ceases to be, they se that the relationship has run it course and it is time to move on. 

For the most part, the person who detaches first usually has it easier when it comes to leaving as the other partner is not there, or has not reach that point yet.


----------



## Trying95

Squeakr said:


> My WW said the same thing to everyone but me. To my face she said we were happy and had a great marriage and everyone looked up t us as the role model of a good couple. I thought we were in a rut and mentioned so, and she just wrote it off as stress, financial concerns, kids, and life in general. NOT the same thing she told all her friends (lots of our friends that never told me) and all of her APs. I really was in the dark and blindsided when I discovered.


We had that same marriage, Squeakr- Everyone thought we were perfect, so did I....what I didn't know was he harbored resentment against me for not paying enough attention to him after our daughter was born, etc. The list goes on and on. When I was fired from my job under very stressful circumstances, he chose to have his EA and smoke screened me for two months after I figured out something was going on instead of talking to me. He was also burnt out in his job. I really couldn't conceive of him doing anything like that and he didn't see it as doing anything wrong. So convoluted. Our MC called it the perfect storm.


----------



## turnera

jld said:


> Wow, I never would have guessed all that. _I_ sure don't see _him_ as a victim.


Of course he sees himself as a victim. By the time he made a commitment to have sex with her, he had already rationalized all the reasons he 'had' to go see OW, and it all stemmed from HIO being so horrible that he had no choice. He's the innocent one in all this, he's been forced into a terrible corner.

How else can he seek his drug and still look at himself in the mirror? Every cheater rewrites history.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Just got another text "despite everything, I wanted to check to see if you are moving your phone over today before I suspend it. Let me know if you need more time".

Nope, already done sucka!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Just got another text "despite everything, I wanted to check to see if you are moving your phone over today before I suspend it. Let me know if you need more time".
> 
> Nope, already done sucka!



oh... I'm noting the beginnings of a shift... interesting...

are you responding or silent?


----------



## hurtinginohio

Not a word.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Not a word.


Good... you will see more softness coming after a couple of self righteous fits... wait for it...


----------



## thenub

By the middle of next week he'll think you've forgotten all about it and want to come home


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> Let me know if you need more time".


What happened to definitely turning it off today??? Where is the bravado he showed this morning?

Continue to ignore.


----------



## thenub

Your strength and fortitude is amazing. Keep your guard up.


----------



## oneMOreguy

....if possible, stay in touch with the OWH to make sure of what the situation is on the other side of things.........it will let you know in advance of how to deal with your husband in many areas.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

He is seeing that you are no pushover. He is fishing for a response. He wants a reaction from you. He is looking for a way in, whether to hurt you or not, remains to be seen. He is losing his family too. All part of the consequences for abandonment.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

yea, and now that I think you want to make sure that softness is authentic love and not manipulation.... right now EVERYTHING is going to be manipulation. So ignore the hard AND the soft until you KNOW the soft is for real.

If you are willing to go there with him


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well he did go to his parents in NY for the weekend, one of my friends said she saw a post on IG. Good because I don't have to worry about him being around, bad because mommy will stroke his ego and assure him he's done nothing wrong.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Mr.Fisty said:


> He is seeing that you are no pushover. He is fishing for a response. He wants a reaction from you. He is looking for a way in, whether to hurt you or not, remains to be seen. He is losing his family too. All part of the consequences for abandonment.


Yeah now he has neither me or the OW texting/calling him.


----------



## Working1

hurtinginohio said:


> Well a quick check on the Verizon website showed they're still talking, but now she's calling him from where she works, at a school! HAHA! She's a secretary, bet the principal would love to have that tidbit of info!


this means that she doesn't want her husband to know she is in contact with him. which in turn means she doesn't want her husband to know because she probably isn't quite ready to leave him. which in turn will leave your husband left out in the cold.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

hurtinginohio said:


> Well he did go to his parents in NY for the weekend, one of my friends said she saw a post on IG. Good because I don't have to worry about him being around, bad because mommy will stroke his ego and assure him he's done nothing wrong.



Has he always been a man child? Has his parents always placed him ont this really high pedestal? Maybe he was not the wonderful guy you thought he was prior to this. Do you think your love blinders distorted your view about him. Now that your detaching, you seem to see his childish behavior. Because when a parent places any child on a pedestal, they tend to be more vain, and less empathetic. When you spoil someone, they become more self-centered. If his parents raised him in this manner, then he had issues even before the affair.


----------



## Working1

hurtinginohio said:


> Just got another text "despite everything, I wanted to check to see if you are moving your phone over today before I suspend it. Let me know if you need more time".
> 
> Nope, already done sucka!


the longer you don't respond, the more confused he will become.


----------



## Q tip

If he gets wind of a visit to an attorney, he may catch on and this could turn into a race of who files and serves first.


----------



## Affaircare

I admit right here and now that this is a GUESS, but it is a somewhat educated guess: 

I do not believe he really wanted or even WANTS to end the marriage. After all, you do meet his needs of keeping the house, raising the kids, cooking, dependable sex partner, etc. The OW just met one or two of the kinds of needs like attention and ego...and he probably was enjoying the thrill of the secret-ness and naughtiness. He didn't think about getting caught or of "what it would cost" and if he did, he probably thought of it like he would get the house, the money, the kids...everything...and you would just quietly disappear and do what he says! 

Now, the OWH is putting his foot down. It appears maybe OW was lying to him that her H knew (NO! Really? SMH). The OW is throwing him under the bus! And nice little wifey is not just knuckling under and letting him get away with it! GEEZ she's actually telling everyone what he's done (aka "the truth") and standing up for herself! He never, EVER thought you'd do that!

AND THEN....he gets the phone bill and sees that you are calling lawyers' offices PLURAL. Right now he's pretty panicked and thinking he's got damage control to do, but mostly just lying to the kids, some family, etc. and then it will all be buried again. But if you actually make him experience the CONSEQUENCES of adultery! Well... * gasp * 

I believe he will either completely panic and start with backpeddling and promises (not actions, but a lot of empty promises) -OR- he will go completely nuclear and majorly burn bridges. 

It's hard to tell with people because just being unfaithful is so often "not their character" that you can't really predict what they'll do -- will they go back to their usual, old character or will they press on in this new "Un-them" character and go deeper until they've dug the hole so deep they can't get out?


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Well he did go to his parents in NY for the weekend, one of my friends said she saw a post on IG. Good because I don't have to worry about him being around, bad because mommy will stroke his ego and assure him he's done nothing wrong.


IIWY, I would email his dad and tell him what's going on. Chances are good his wife has minimized it all and blamed you as well. Clue him in.


----------



## thenub

I hope you are doing well today.
Stay strong.💪


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks! Nothing new to report, no calls, texts or emails. He's at his parents in NY, so I'm sure he's busy doing whatever there. 

DD & I are running a 5K at 5:30 today, he was going to run with us and I picked up the race packets this morning. I admit, it was rough seeing his shirt & packet when he won't be there. But, I'll be ok.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks! Nothing new to report, no calls, texts or emails. He's at his parents in NY, so I'm sure he's busy doing whatever there.
> 
> DD & I are running a 5K at 5:30 today, he was going to run with us and I picked up the race packets this morning. I admit, it was rough seeing his shirt & packet when he won't be there. But, *I'll be ok.*


Glad to hear it.


----------



## turnera

I would hang his shirt on a tree in the front yard. No one else will know what it means, but when he finally comes by to see his daughter...he'll know.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

The more you describe him and your situation, the more he looks like a child. Running into the safe harbor of his mommy to seek validation. Are you sure before this he was this great guy? Even before the affair, he had poor boundaries and that had to happen before. Plus his parents place him on a pedestal, so he would not be that mature. Oh, I am sure he has his good qualities, everyone does, but did your love for him over compensate how great he was before the affair?


----------



## jld

Mr.Fisty said:


> The more you describe him and your situation, the more he looks like a child. Running into the safe harbor of his mommy to seek validation. *Are you sure before this he was this great guy?* Even before the affair, he had poor boundaries and that had to happen before. Plus his parents place him on a pedestal, so he would not be that mature. Oh, I am sure he has his good qualities, everyone does, but did your love for him over compensate how great he was before the affair?


Worth pondering . . .


----------



## hurtinginohio

No, before this he really was a great guy. The most hard working, dependable person I've ever met. Since we live in ohio he really only sees his parents a few times a year. He's never needed their validation, but his mother is the kind of person who can't see anything other than perfection in him. In a text she told him it takes courage to make such a big life change and that they'd be there for him. Courage to abandon your family? Fvck that!!


----------



## jld

Okay, let's take a different tack then. Can you think of anything you would've done differently before the affair, in terms of the relationship, now that the affair has come to light?


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes, I would have made more time for us, not just in the roles of parents. That is one thing that we didn't do much of the past year.

Everyone who knows is beyond shocked, he's the last person anyone would have guessed could change like this.


----------



## Q tip

Let his dear mommy know his poor boundaries and lack of family values caused this. Unfortunately, the innocent are always hurt most.

Like all cheats, he hates the truth. Shrinks from it and his real unmanly self shows through. He allowed a toxin into his life and poisoned his family with it. That's all he's done. Pure evil. Cowardice in the face of infidelity.


----------



## Openminded

He has completely rewritten his marital history to his parents and everyone else. Not surprising. That's how cheaters justify their actions -- and to get everyone on their side. 

I'm sure most of us felt our husbands were great guys and the least likely men in the world to cheat. I know I did. That was a really tough lesson. 

Trust broken never comes back completely. And it shouldn't. Because now you know now he's capable of breaking your heart.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Q tip said:


> Let his dear mommy know his poor boundaries and lack of family values caused this. Unfortunately, the innocent are always hurt most.
> 
> Like all cheats, he hates the truth. Shrinks from it and his real unmanly self shows through. He allowed a toxin into his life and poisoned his family with it. That's all he's done. Pure evil. Cowardice in the face of infidelity.


I did let them know about the OW when I emailed them a few weeks ago. They never replied, so I know I won't get anywhere at this point. I'm sure if the OW even came up he told them she was just a friend he was talking to.

I'm moving on with my life, with or without him. He is expecting me to stoop to his level and bad mouth him at every chance I get. Have I told the truth to people who matter? Yes, but I haven't been shouting from the rooftop about what an a$$ he's being which is what he's expecting.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> I did let them know about the OW when I emailed them a few weeks ago. They never replied, so I know I won't get anywhere at this point. I'm sure if the OW even came up he told them she was just a friend he was talking to.
> 
> I'm moving on with my life, with or without him. He is expecting me to stoop to his level and bad mouth him at every chance I get. Have I told the truth to people who matter? Yes, but I haven't been shouting from the rooftop about what an a$$ he's being which is what he's expecting.


Okay, but we want you to move on in a healthy way, especially if you want to eventually pursue another relationship.

This guy and his parents seem really unhealthy. Were your first husband and his family like that, too?

And I totally understand if you don't even feel like talking about that stuff right now. Just something to reflect on at some point.


----------



## thenub

Have an awesome run it'll help clear your mind and help you sleep.


----------



## oneMOreguy

Truth in advertising......I am a WS who got in way over my head with an inappropriate young female friend half my age.........Ok....now that is over.....

Just a suggestion..........your husband seems to be an emotionally vulnerable kind of guy. It would probably take quite a bit of therapy to really figure out what that means really and why, but....

he has lost himself emotionally to some random female over a matter of weeks with just electronic communication,,,we know it was always a fantasy, but he wasn't able to see it.

and yet he actually was finally honest with you about his feelings, which is almost unheard of from cheaters,,,,,,,most do every thing they can to guard this aspect.

and it is clear that he values his relationship with his daughters and grandchildren, and clearly would like to be a part of their life.....

he at least acknowledges he has caused you pain, and shows some sort of guilt for that (I know....but not enough to come to his senses).

I am a bit thinking out loud.........but none of these seems to fit a cheater who is either out to get laid, or who is trying to leave a marriage.......it seems to more be a case of a weak moth who got attracted to a brighter flame and didn't realize the end result of being burned up by that flame (best analogy I could come up with on the fly).

So where does this go?? an emotionally vulnerable man with boundaries weak enough that he lost his head. A man who clearly values emotional attachments who suddenly has none.....lost access to his wife, daughters and grandchildren, and apparently no more access to the other woman. He is at his parents because that is all he has left and he feels he is sinking in quicksand. Male friends can never provide the type of emotional attachment he seems to crave, and I bet they see thru his line of bs anyway.....

If he parents were either not alive or were not on his side, I would worry about he ability to stay stable in his head, to the point of maybe hurting himself to make a point, etc

What happens next is really up to you if the other woman is truly out of the picture. If you want water to flow downhill to a certain point, you have to make it possible for the water to flow down a path to meet that point......meaning once you feel certain the other woman is gone, in some fashion open up a path for him to return to you. Only of course if that is what you want. And yes, this requires you to become vulnerable again and open to more pain.......so this can be a tough choice. But it is clear that this is a weak man emotionally right now, and he will probably not beat a path back to you guys on his own......after all he has burned a lot of bridges to ensure that would not happen.......maybe unconsciously trying to show commitment to the OW???

Overall...what I am trying to get across is that once his fantasy bubble is/has been burst, the first move should be by you if you want to try again. I know this goes against what most here believe, but none of this stuff is a math formula, and I think this is a viable choice in this situation. I am not talking about an invitation either, just niceness........letting him know that return communication with him will not be returned with anger or hostility. He needs to know he can return without punishment, but just with even handed accountability.

He really does not sound that different than me.....and guys with my makeup will do almost anything to avoid anger, conflict and hostility........even when it goes against my own best interest. 

and as far as the moth analogy......I am afraid that for the rest of the day I will think about myself as a moth flopping about the room with badly damaged and singed wings......ugghhh


----------



## hurtinginohio

So a friend just sent me a pick he posted on Instagram. It's a bookmark with the quote by Thoreau that says "go confidently in the direction of your dreams, live the life you always imagined!" And his comment was, a gift from my mom at just the right time. So there you have it, she's validating his choice to abandon his family.


----------



## turnera

And I will once again suggest that you call her and his dad. Not to get them to change their mind. But to help YOUR peace of mind, and to MAYBE make life a little more difficult for all of them for supporting this choice.


----------



## jld

I would not call them. I would leave them behind, with their son.


----------



## turnera

If she were ready to leave him behind, I would say that, too. But she's not.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I don't think I'd have anything to gain by calling his parents, it would just make me look vindictive. They are firmly on his side and there is nothing I can do about it. 

It's been a crappy afternoon, I have moments where I miss him, even though he's done what he's done. He was the one for 14 years who I told everything to and there is this emptiness now.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

oneMOreguy said:


> Truth in advertising......I am a WS who got in way over my head with an inappropriate young female friend half my age.........Ok....now that is over.....
> 
> Just a suggestion..........your husband seems to be an emotionally vulnerable kind of guy. It would probably take quite a bit of therapy to really figure out what that means really and why, but....
> 
> he has lost himself emotionally to some random female over a matter of weeks with just electronic communication,,,we know it was always a fantasy, but he wasn't able to see it.
> 
> and yet he actually was finally honest with you about his feelings, which is almost unheard of from cheaters,,,,,,,most do every thing they can to guard this aspect.
> 
> and it is clear that he values his relationship with his daughters and grandchildren, and clearly would like to be a part of their life.....
> 
> he at least acknowledges he has caused you pain, and shows some sort of guilt for that (I know....but not enough to come to his senses).
> 
> I am a bit thinking out loud.........but none of these seems to fit a cheater who is either out to get laid, or who is trying to leave a marriage.......it seems to more be a case of a weak moth who got attracted to a brighter flame and didn't realize the end result of being burned up by that flame (best analogy I could come up with on the fly).
> 
> So where does this go?? an emotionally vulnerable man with boundaries weak enough that he lost his head. A man who clearly values emotional attachments who suddenly has none.....lost access to his wife, daughters and grandchildren, and apparently no more access to the other woman. He is at his parents because that is all he has left and he feels he is sinking in quicksand. Male friends can never provide the type of emotional attachment he seems to crave, and I bet they see thru his line of bs anyway.....
> 
> If he parents were either not alive or were not on his side, I would worry about he ability to stay stable in his head, to the point of maybe hurting himself to make a point, etc
> 
> What happens next is really up to you if the other woman is truly out of the picture. If you want water to flow downhill to a certain point, you have to make it possible for the water to flow down a path to meet that point......meaning once you feel certain the other woman is gone, in some fashion open up a path for him to return to you. Only of course if that is what you want. And yes, this requires you to become vulnerable again and open to more pain.......so this can be a tough choice. But it is clear that this is a weak man emotionally right now, and he will probably not beat a path back to you guys on his own......after all he has burned a lot of bridges to ensure that would not happen.......maybe unconsciously trying to show commitment to the OW???
> 
> Overall...what I am trying to get across is that once his fantasy bubble is/has been burst, the first move should be by you if you want to try again. I know this goes against what most here believe, but none of this stuff is a math formula, and I think this is a viable choice in this situation. I am not talking about an invitation either, just niceness........letting him know that return communication with him will not be returned with anger or hostility. He needs to know he can return without punishment, but just with even handed accountability.
> 
> He really does not sound that different than me.....and guys with my makeup will do almost anything to avoid anger, conflict and hostility........even when it goes against my own best interest.
> 
> and as far as the moth analogy......I am afraid that for the rest of the day I will think about myself as a moth flopping about the room with badly damaged and singed wings......ugghhh



It would work better if he was still not burning bridges. He is blaming her for everything and she has the proof to show it. His parents are enabling his behavior. They place him on a pedestal, and will have his back. They are supporting him to seek happiness. Yes, he is emotionally weak and probably not in his right mind. Sometimes the damage done can't be undone. He did threaten her with divorce if she interfered from him seeking sex with ow. His obsession with the ow is not over, and these things could take months to years to disappate.

She has no option but to move on. She is not placing her life on hold, no relationship is worth that. In order for her to heal, she has to detach. The side effect of that is losing her love for him. Oh, I am sure she cares, they have children and history, but he pushed it too far. Still, she might forgive him, who knows when the time comes. But as of right now, the advice she should get is how to move on. It is no guarantee that he will ever return. Making plans around hope for a certain outcome is a bad idea. Plus he is lawyering up.

I am sure you see yourself in him, that is why the sympathy. But he is still on the path of destruction. Whether on his right mind or not, he did do this to himself. When it is all over, only Hurting can decide if she can get past it.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

He has been part of your identity for those 14 years. Losing him will of course feel like your losing a part of yourself. Only thing to do is redefine who you are, and create an identity without him. The more you feel detached, the more your identity is changing. haven't you notice the change in you already? Your a lot stronger, though scarred, then you were the person yesterday. Each day you grow further apart from him, it is only natural. Otherwise, you would not heal.


----------



## jld

Many wise words from you, Mr. Fisty.


----------



## oneMOreguy

Mr.Fisty said:


> It would work better if he was still not burning bridges. He is blaming her for everything and she has the proof to show it. His parents are enabling his behavior. They place him on a pedestal, and will have his back. They are supporting him to seek happiness. Yes, he is emotionally weak and probably not in his right mind. Sometimes the damage done can't be undone. He did threaten her with divorce if she interfered from him seeking sex with ow. His obsession with the ow is not over, and these things could take months to years to disappate.
> 
> She has no option but to move on. She is not placing her life on hold, no relationship is worth that. In order for her to heal, she has to detach. The side effect of that is losing her love for him. Oh, I am sure she cares, they have children and history, but he pushed it too far. Still, she might forgive him, who knows when the time comes. But as of right now, the advice she should get is how to move on. It is no guarantee that he will ever return. Making plans around hope for a certain outcome is a bad idea. Plus he is lawyering up.
> 
> I am sure you see yourself in him, that is why the sympathy. But he is still on the path of destruction. Whether on his right mind or not, he did do this to himself. When it is all over, only Hurting can decide if she can get past it.


...I cannot disagree with you....but this guy is sounding just so much like a love sick teen........he cannot sustain this very long even with his parents support. And the whole instagram pic thing is probably still part of his fantasy......probably more for his little female friend in the hopes that she sees it somehow.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> I don't think I'd have anything to gain by calling his parents, it would just make me look vindictive. They are firmly on his side and there is nothing I can do about it.
> 
> It's been a crappy afternoon, I have moments where I miss him, even though he's done what he's done. He was the one for 14 years who I told everything to and there is this emptiness now.


HIO I understand this pain. No one has touched my soul as deep as my H, not by a LONG shot, but for a while my H was incapacitated in his affair fog and as excruciating as it was temporary. When people fall into addictions of any kind they can become emotionally unavailable. When they are free of the addiction emotional availability returns. For me it was worth the wait. 

My H literally started making the first changes within 24 hours of filing for divorce. Changes I knew could be built upon. I still filed for divorce but told my atty to hold the papers two weeks before he was served. During those two weeks I saw additional changes that I knew God was VERY involved in my H's heart. Within a month I told my atty to cancel the papers. We continue to improve and have a better relationship now because my H allowed this experience to shape him into a better man. He has a team of men around him mentoring him and he loves it. His confidence now is beautiful. His behavior at home has significantly improved. My baby boy has his Papa at home we are not a broken home which was also worth the wait to me. 

Your hubands attitude may never afford you much of a choice on the reconciliation front. Only time will tell.


----------



## alte Dame

I grew up with a father who also told me to follow my dreams. Unfortunately, this never included the practical necessities of life, like how to earn a living. He encouraged me to study exactly what I wanted, independent of earning potential. He said to wait for a love match before I even considered marriage. He had my back in any of these decisions.

It took me years to realize that, although this was all from the heart, it had the ultimate capacity to cripple me. I wound up marrying a man who was the anti-Dad & we are still together. I am thankful every day that my H is as reliable and practical as he is. And I love him, so that helps indeed.

Parents can be wrong in the lessons they teach. They can think that they are offering pearls of wisdom that will provide solace and support, but they can really just be excuses for the weakness and poor decisions of their children.

Your WH's mother is enabling him, for certain, but I would bet that she is thinking foremost to alleviate his pain and finds that her support is the easiest way to do this. What she misses is that she is furthering his alienation not just from you but from his children. She is encouraging him to seek detachment from them. She puts the immediate emotional welfare of her son above both his future welfare and that of her grandchildren.

This is too bad, but I agree with you that you cannot do much to affect this. Who knows, though? Sometimes children see that their parents were blinded by love when they gave them poor advice. I could see that with my father, but there's no guarantee that your WH will figure it out. I will say, however, that, as an adult, it is small consolation to have your mommy as your biggest cheerleader while your children are losing respect by the minute. Maybe this will help him see through the parental bs.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Blossom Leigh would call her (MIL) on it. But that is just me ... And I would describe it accurately as Alta Dam has done. I would do it as one mother to another...

We do disservice to do otherwise...


----------



## hurtinginohio

Back from the 5K, shaved 4 minutes off last time! Even if my heart is still broken, I'm taking care of my body. It was a Funtime with my daughter, now we are home having cocoa and watching tv. Thanks for all the kind words everyone.


----------



## jld

Blossom Leigh said:


> Blossom Leigh would call her (MIL) on it. But that is just me ... And I would describe it accurately as Alta Dam has done. I would do it as one mother to another...
> 
> We do disservice to do otherwise...


And if she won't talk to you?

She might be curious enough to open a letter.


----------



## SadSamIAm

If someone took a picture of you and your daugher at the race, you should post it on facebook or some other social media. If your husband doesn't see it, he will hear about it.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I would be in an ambulance as they pump my body full of oxygen as I cross the finish line in style. Then I would congratulate myself with a slice of pizza. I got to keep my a$$ jiggly. JK


----------



## hurtinginohio

SadSamIAm said:


> If someone took a picture of you and your daugher at the race, you should post it on facebook or some other social media. If your husband doesn't see it, he will hear about it.


I did post a couple of pics, both his parents are still my FB friends.


----------



## jld

Have you ever had difficulties getting along with his parents?


----------



## hurtinginohio

We'll I heard from a friend who talked to him today. He says he's 100% done! wants divorce ASAP! would have agreed to 6 mos separation until the events of this past week. He is beyond angry, he says it's because I involved her college age daughter, but we all know it's because I put a crimp in his plans. He again said this past week made him see my true colors and he never wants to go through something like that again. Where am I the villain in all of this?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Your not, but inorder for him to be the victim, there has to be a villian. So he has to place you in that role. Remember, he is on natural drugs that is affecting his logic. If you look at him, and some symptoms of drug abuse, he would match it.

Use that anger in a control manner and focus it to detach, and move on. Detach until you feel indifference and that anger is no longer needed because you will not care as much. Your still highly attach, that is why he has power over you, and he is getting this reaction.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I know I'm attached, you don't detach after 14 years in a matter of weeks. I'm trying so hard to be strong but this sucks.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I think you need to stop checking up on him and seeing what he is doing. You have to go dark on him, and however you are getting these updates about him, you have to avoid it. It is only drawing you back into the drama. That is what you want to avoid.


----------



## hurtinginohio

You're right and I was doing great for a few days, but weekends are tough.


----------



## jld

Just one more day, and you will be back to the hustle and bustle of the work week.


----------



## turnera

Then find something to do tomorrow. If you don't make different memories, the only ones you have are with him.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

You are not the villain HIO

The six month separation thing is BS. He was already gone.


If he doesn't want to stay I know you will eventually accept it. 

So sorry. . Just take your time to heal and love your baby girl.


----------



## hurtinginohio

turnera said:


> Then find something to do tomorrow. If you don't make different memories, the only ones you have are with him.


I need to clean this pigsty of a house tomorrow! I'm a total neat freak but have really dropped the ball lately. Need to get groceries too, I've basically just getting by on basic survival instincts the past few weeks.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> I need to clean this pigsty of a house tomorrow! I'm a total neat freak but have really dropped the ball lately. Need to get groceries too, I've basically just getting by on basic survival instincts the past few weeks.


Good! Get on it!


----------



## Mr.Fisty

You should involve your daughters in the cleaning, and have them help you pick groceries. Start tackling the house as a team. When I did things side by side with my father, it was a bonding experience even though much was not said.


----------



## alte Dame

A 6-month separation was just a ruse to let him test the waters with his gf. He could have given her time to get out of her marriage - by lying to her BH, of course - and he wouldn't have been the guy who just cold-heartedly ditched his family on a whim. You would have been divorced no matter what, in my opinion. Separations very rarely lead to anything else. Usually they just prolong the agony.

I also think that he would be just as self-righteous if you had managed to reach the OWH first instead of the college-aged daughter. Then his beef would have been that you interfered in someone else's private affairs. (Yes, I get the irony, but the waywards rarely do.)

I think you were damned if you do, damned if you don't. Your WH, a married man who was not in a separation or divorce proceeding, lied to you and planned a hotel date with a married woman. This should be why you're divorcing. Not because you thwarted his plans.


----------



## hurtinginohio

You are absolutely right. I need to focus on the fact that I need to divorce him, not the other way around. Honestly, the only reason I'd want a separation instead of divorce right now is for financial reasons, mostly insurance. He has insurance for the family paid for by his employer, and my company adds $250 a month to our hsa account. I will lose all that plus have to pay for my insurance.


----------



## farsidejunky

This is why you need to meet with an attorney. These questions need to be answered so you can move forward with confidence.


----------



## ButtPunch

He can't drop you until the divorce is final
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jld

I thought you met with an attorney Friday?


----------



## hurtinginohio

jld said:


> I thought you met with an attorney Friday?


I did, it was just a consult, I need 2K for a retainer. I'm meeting with another one this Thursday.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Is there anyone you can ask for help? Any family members or multiple family members can help you out financially. Just to get things started. Don't forget to ask your lawyer for advice with anything that pertains to the divorce. They are meant to look after your best interests. Like with the insurance, make a list of questions that you need to seek legal advice for.


----------



## hurtinginohio

No, I have no family members who would help me. He does however, plus his aunt & uncle are both attorneys. They can't practice in ohio, but I'm sure they'll offer him loads of free advice.


----------



## jld

You may need to take a loan. So sorry, hurting.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

During this process, make sure he is still responsible for his fair share of bills, and such. His responsibilities did not end by him simply moving out. 

Check out this website for some advice on how to divorce with limited funds.

Divorce Advice, Laws, and Information from Womans Divorce


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks! I know the financial reality of all of this hasn't fully hit him yet, he's in for a big surprise.


----------



## jld

It sounds like he has resources, though. Makes me mad.


----------



## ButtPunch

hurtinginohio said:


> , he's in for a big surprise.


He has no idea! He's in fantasyland right now. This is far from over.


----------



## yeah_right

One day at a time. You are going to have ups and downs for quite some time. Focus on yourself and daughter, and that includes lining up the best legal counsel you can manage. It sucks that his actions require you to suffer, but now you have to defend yourself.


----------



## hurtinginohio

He turned 40 in May, I just turned 45 in Oct.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Yall are the exact ages of me 45 and my H 40


----------



## oneMOreguy

Blossom Leigh said:


> Yall are the exact ages of me 45 and my H 40


...buncha young punks.........:rofl:


----------



## farsidejunky

Old farts really... I won't be 40 for another 4 months...


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I will not be 40 until 2028. Hopefully medical technology will help make me feel younger by then.


----------



## jld

All right. Who let the kids in here?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Well, from the ripe old age of 47, let me just say HEY YOU KIDS, GET OFF MY LAWN!


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Is 26 still considered a kid? I figure once you leave your early twenties, your considered a matured enough adult.


----------



## jld

Tell me what you think about that in 20 years. 

But seriously . . . You give excellent advice, Mr. Fisty. You are wise beyond your years.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Never thought I'd be here...*



jld said:


> Tell me what you think about that in 20 years.
> 
> But seriously . . . You give excellent advice, Mr. Fisty. You are wise beyond your years.


Agreed.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Agreed as well. It's amazing how going through what life throws at you will mature you right up. (I'm 34)


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Thanks, I had a different childhood than most. Wisdom is gained by accepting our failures and learning. Really, introspection and meditation should be taught to everyone.


----------



## jld

Mr.Fisty said:


> Thanks, I had a different childhood than most. Wisdom is gained by accepting our failures and learning. Really, introspection and meditation should be taught to everyone.


You should start a thread and talk about it. You are definitely here to teach.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Oh, when I state that he is a child, he is constantly seeking the approval of others. He goes home to his parents to seek their support and approve of what he is doing. Since they placed him on a pedestal, they enable his bad behavior. He is trying to garner sympathy from those around him because he wants them to accept what he is doing. He will tell how miserable he was, and how he deserves better. He was forced into the affair. He needs that constant external validation. That is why he constantly goes home to his parents. I think you mention he visits them quite often.

H.i.o. have you notice those types of traits before? Has he always needed an external source of approval of what he is doing? Does he lack a sense of self? Or is this a recent thing that happened after the affair?

Because if he does lack this sense, a divorce is almost inevitable. His enablers will assure him that he is going down the correct path. He probably base his actions off his emotions. He seems like he does not do a lot of critical thinking. He does not seem to be introspective at all. It sounds like he does not own his own issues.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

All the age comments are hilarious 

Hio I'm thinking about you this morning and have been praying for your heart and your daughters.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Mr.Fisty said:


> Oh, when I state that he is a child, he is constantly seeking the approval of others. He goes home to his parents to seek their support and approve of what he is doing. Since they placed him on a pedestal, they enable his bad behavior. He is trying to garner sympathy from those around him because he wants them to accept what he is doing. He will tell how miserable he was, and how he deserves better. He was forced into the affair. He needs that constant external validation. That is why he constantly goes home to his parents. I think you mention he visits them quite often.
> 
> H.i.o. have you notice those types of traits before? Has he always needed an external source of approval of what he is doing? Does he lack a sense of self? Or is this a recent thing that happened after the affair?
> 
> Because if he does lack this sense, a divorce is almost inevitable. His enablers will assure him that he is going down the correct path. He probably base his actions off his emotions. He seems like he does not do a lot of critical thinking. He does not seem to be introspective at all. It sounds like he does not own his own issues.


I never really thought he needed his parents approval, until now. His mother was always the one who couldn't let go of her baby boy, but he moved out of state with no problem and really didn't call them that much at all. We would visit them maybe twice a year and they would come here once or twice a year as well.

However, in his last job he had for 15 years he was in charge of a lot of employees and although he worked a lot and it was stressful, he was needed and admired. He quit that job a year and a half ago "to spend more time with the family" and although it's less hours and stress, he has no one reporting to him. He is accountable only for himself. He also spends a lot of time driving around which gives him much more time to think, his old job was so hectic he was lucky to grab a 2 minute lunch. So yes, I definitely believe he needs approval and validation. I'm sure a few of HIS friends (not mutual), have given it to them as well as now his parents.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Blossom Leigh said:


> All the age comments are hilarious
> 
> Hio I'm thinking about you this morning and have been praying for your heart and your daughters.


Thank you, it was an ok weekend, but still rough at times. Both yesterday and this morning DD11 woke up and was sad because she had dreamed about him. This is the sh!t he doesn't realize, a good parent doesn't just pick them up for a fun weekend day, a good parent is there for everything, including the nightmares.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> I don't think I'd have anything to gain by calling his parents, it would just make me look vindictive. They are firmly on his side and there is nothing I can do about it.
> 
> It's been a crappy afternoon, I have moments where I miss him, even though he's done what he's done. He was the one for 14 years who I told everything to and there is this emptiness now.



I know this feeling. When I found out and tried to expose, I found out that her mom (whom is batsh!t crazy anyway) had been covering for her and telling my kids to shut up as Mommy needs her alone time with her friends. Nothing like enabling her in every way, shape, and form! I couldn't believe it either that a parent would be so cold and callous, but others verified it.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> No, I have no family members who would help me. He does however, plus his aunt & uncle are both attorneys. They can't practice in ohio, but I'm sure they'll offer him loads of free advice.


I know this feeling. I am going it alone, and she has the backing of wealthy relatives. Funny that I thought they cared fro us both, but the truth comes out when it hits the fan. I did nothing wrong, but the realative felt STBXW deserved to have legal counsel. When I stated that I couldn't afford counsel and didn't I deserve the same, I was told point blank "get another job then and pay for it!" So she can't afford it, but she "deserves" it (keeping in mind she is the wh0re that cheated with multiple partners) and I should get another job. The audacity of some is just mind blowing to say the least!!!!


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> Thank you, it was an ok weekend, but still rough at times. Both yesterday and this morning DD11 woke up and was sad because she had dreamed about him. This is the sh!t he doesn't realize, a good parent doesn't just pick them up for a fun weekend day, a good parent is there for everything, including the nightmares.


Except some of us don't get the opportunity to be your definition of a "good" parent. My STBXW and the state (very anit-male) agree that I should at best get a few weekend days a month, one weekday night for a 2 hour dinner (really they even limit the length of my dinner), alternating holidays, and 2 non-consequtive weeks during the summer. I also have to put everything in writing 7 days in advance. Too much red tape to ever be a parent, let alone a good parent. What does one do when they are only allowed the one good weekend day ate best, like in my case?? Sometimes the best parent is the one that isn't there, rather than be there for nothing.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Squeakr said:


> Except some of us don't get the opportunity to be your definition of a "good" parent. My STBXW and the state (very anit-male) agree that I should at best get a few weekend days a month, one weekday night for a 2 hour dinner (really they even limit the length of my dinner), alternating holidays, and 2 non-consequtive weeks during the summer. I also have to put everything in writing 7 days in advance. Too much red tape to ever be a parent, let alone a good parent. What does one do when they are only allowed the one good weekend day ate best, like in my case?? Sometimes the best parent is the one that isn't there, rather than be there for nothing.


That totally sucks when it's not your choice to not be a full time parent, I'm sorry. My H however chose to not be here and somehow assumes he can be an even better day this way.


----------



## dadof2

Mr.Fisty said:


> Oh, when I state that he is a child, he is constantly seeking the approval of others. He goes home to his parents to seek their support and approve of what he is doing. Since they placed him on a pedestal, they enable his bad behavior. He is trying to garner sympathy from those around him because he wants them to accept what he is doing. He will tell how miserable he was, and how he deserves better. He was forced into the affair. He needs that constant external validation. That is why he constantly goes home to his parents. I think you mention he visits them quite often.
> 
> H.i.o. have you notice those types of traits before? Has he always needed an external source of approval of what he is doing? Does he lack a sense of self? Or is this a recent thing that happened after the affair?
> 
> Because if he does lack this sense, a divorce is almost inevitable. His enablers will assure him that he is going down the correct path. He probably base his actions off his emotions. He seems like he does not do a lot of critical thinking. He does not seem to be introspective at all. It sounds like he does not own his own issues.



Wow this describes my STBX to a T. Her parents enable her, she plays the poor victim card to them, and I am the mean ******* no matter what. On her weekends with the kids, she drives an hour and a half to stay with her parents. Of course on her weekends without the kids, she is at OM's place. But her parents think she is home crying and "healing" from her abusive marriage.

That's the hardest pill for me to swallow. I am just about over the betrayal, the mind movies have slown way down. But what I can't comprehend is that her family does not hold her accountable. Like someone else mentioned- I would love to explain everything she has done over the last 8 months to her parents, but I know it won't do any good. They have chosen the lens to see things through and there is no way I can penetrate that. Its amazing how 2 seemingly down to earth people (her parents) can be so blinded and not want to see the truth.


----------



## hurtinginohio

The thing is, my FIL left MIL for another woman when H was in high school. They reconciled after a year and have been together ever since, so they know what this behavior can do! Also, my FIL is now a pastor, you would think he would counsel his son to take care of his family. I do think it's mostly his mother who is doing the enabling.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> That totally sucks when it's not your choice to not be a full time parent, I'm sorry. My H however chose to not be here and somehow assumes he can be an even better day this way.


I agree, but sometimes we have to make what we feel is the best decisions given a certain set of circumstances. I am not defending him in any way, but sometimes with everyone having painted someone as the worst possible person in the world, they feel that they have nothing to offer as both a person and parent and feel it is best to withdraw from the situation completely. 

I know in my case as long as I am "part" of it all that the belittling, put downs, and just all around character slamming will not stop so long as I am in the picture (and he may feel the same) as she needs to justify her heinous actions to all. I have been removed from the situation for a few months and forced to live a distance away (as in states way) and I have no interaction with the STBXW and only with the children, yet she has taken the time to bad mouth me to anyone that will listen and do so in front of the children (against mine, the children's, and both lawyers wishes and recommendations, this is to include her new friends and old friends of the family). As long as I remain in the picture it will not stop, so I really have no choice in what I can and should do here. He may see things the same.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> The thing is, my FIL left MIL for another woman when H was in high school. They reconciled after a year and have been together ever since, so they know what this behavior can do! Also, my FIL is now a pastor, you would think he would counsel his son to take care of his family. I do think it's mostly his mother who is doing the enabling.


If only it was that easy and worked that way. My STBXW's entire family has so many skeletons in their closets and yet they somehow can look past all of their transactions and coach her to do the same thing. She is one of about 2 that had a chance for a normal, moral marriage and lifestyle, but they all supported her in her cheating ways. Guess they feel misery loves company and they want everyone to be a part of their f'd up family.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well just had a text from him, he must be on his way back to town from his parents. He has a lot of mail at the house to pick up. This is how it went down:

H: I'll be stopping by the house around 1:30-2:00
Me: Ok, your mail is in a pile on the buffet. Please leave your house key and garage door opener.
H: House key? Are you serious? If I'm paying the mortgage I'm keeping my key.
Me: You don't live there anymore, I'm not comfortable with you coming and going as you please.
H: I'll let you know when I'm coming and going.


WTH do I do now?

eta: at the bottom of the stack of mail are separation papers I had drawn up. Nothing official, I did it from an online legal site, but they look official and will hopefully make him crap his pants when he sees what I'm asking for.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> The thing is, my FIL left MIL for another woman when H was in high school. They reconciled after a year and have been together ever since, so they know what this behavior can do! Also, my FIL is now a pastor, you would think he would counsel his son to take care of his family. I do think it's mostly his mother who is doing the enabling.


My H's mother hides everything from her H, so I wouldn't assume he knows.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Well just had a text from him, he must be on his way back to town from his parents. He has a lot of mail at the house to pick up. This is how it went down:
> 
> H: I'll be stopping by the house around 1:30-2:00
> Me: Ok, your mail is in a pile on the buffet. Please leave your house key and garage door opener.
> H: House key? Are you serious? If I'm paying the mortgage I'm keeping my key.
> Me: You don't live there anymore, I'm not comfortable with you coming and going as you please.
> H: I'll let you know when I'm coming and going.
> 
> 
> WTH do I do now?


He's right... you can't keep him out unless he is violent, then that would change. If it is the marital residence and he partially owns it, by law you cannot lock him out and he does not have to give up possession. He could choose to move back in if he wanted to. sorry... 

I would tell him, "I'm sorry, you are right and please do keep me informed"


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> Well just had a text from him, he must be on his way back to town from his parents. He has a lot of mail at the house to pick up. This is how it went down:
> 
> H: I'll be stopping by the house around 1:30-2:00
> Me: Ok, your mail is in a pile on the buffet. Please leave your house key and garage door opener.
> H: House key? Are you serious? If I'm paying the mortgage I'm keeping my key.
> Me: You don't live there anymore, I'm not comfortable with you coming and going as you please.
> H: I'll let you know when I'm coming and going.
> 
> 
> WTH do I do now?
> 
> eta: at the bottom of the stack of mail are separation papers I had drawn up. Nothing official, I did it from an online legal site, but they look official and will hopefully make him crap his pants when he sees what I'm asking for.


I agree with Blossom, that unless an RO is in place or he has relinquished the home to you, he has every right to the keys and to come and go as he pleases. When my SSTBXW moved out to an apartment she had rented (and she changed her mailing address and everything) I still couldn't keep her from the house.

I would recommend you annotate everything that is in the house, lest he start removing things and it becomes a battle to get them back. Taking a time stamped photo of everything in the house is a good way to accomplish this (as it counts as documentation, I would also write out the contents and values as this helps when separating things prior to D.

I would also not give him the separation papers if they are not "legal" yet, otherwise you tip your hand as to what you want and are going for. This could drive hime further away and to do even more heinous things (especially when he gets his lawyer) to prevent you from getting what you think you want/ deserve.
Hold those papers and only provide them to your lawyer, so you get your share.


----------



## karole

You need to hire an attorney ASAP and have a legal separation agreement drawn up. I would schedule a meeting with every bulldog attorney in town whether I actually wanted them to represent me or not to prevent the husband from retaining them.


----------



## Squeakr

karole said:


> You need to hire an attorney ASAP and have a legal separation agreement drawn up. I would schedule a meeting with every bulldog attorney in town whether I actually wanted them to represent me or not to prevent the husband from retaining them.


ASAP doesn't make a difference. It needs to be on her time and at her terms. Having a separation agreement drawn up doesn't mean anything until both parties agree to it, so regardless the immediacy, doesn't insure that she will get what she wants, nor that it will be effective immediately. You should hire a lawyer you trust and deal accordingly on your time frame. You don't have to work at the speed of light, as this is your life you are dealing with and you need to deal on your terms.


----------



## hurtinginohio

So should I NOT give him the separation papers I made up? My older daughter will be home for lunch soon and I can have her pull that envelope from his stack of mail. Due to finances I can't legally file right now. I guess I just need some guidance here.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Yes, pull it and get an attorney rolling on these issues.


----------



## Squeakr

Agreed, like I said before, don't tip you hand as to what you want and desire. These papers can give too much away in regard to your wants and desires and where you are proceeding with your situation. Keep this hidden and protected at this time until you are ready to officially make it happen. Don't tip your hand, as this could be akin to confronting without sufficient evidence. Of course this is just my opinion, you do what you feel is best, as you know him and the situation best.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

If you want to get an idea of the probability of finding a good spouse, see their parents. See how your potential spouse interacts with them. Usually the more grounded the family life, the more stable the potential mate is. With his parents issues, and how he was babied by his parents, his chances for growing up a mentally strong and stable person is lowered. Some people can make it out of that environment as long as they are self-aware.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I must echo the others. You don't tip your hand to an opponent. Your goal is to be an enigma. Your the general, and you do not want to transmit your moves to your opponent. Give them no information. Use smoke screen and mirrors if you like.


----------



## ButtPunch

IDK people....those papers may knock a little sense into him. Unless she has got some secret ace in the hole, divorces are pretty vanilla. The papers let him know she means business and will not allow any cake eating.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Don't even talk about divorce or anything. Get your house inorder, and I would surprise him with a divorce instead. Let him not even see it coming.


----------



## Squeakr

Mr.Fisty said:


> If you want to get an idea of the probability of finding a good spouse, see their parents. See how your potential spouse interacts with them. Usually the more grounded the family life, the more stable the potential mate is. With his parents issues, and how he was babied by his parents, his chances for growing up a mentally strong and stable person is lowered. Some people can make it out of that environment as long as they are self-aware.


Although this seems like a good idea in theory, generally we will never get close enough to be able to make such true and objective observations, unless we are young and have met our potential mate at a young age and have grown up around them. Most if us will have met our mate later on in life and not really be close enough to have a "true" feeling for the relationship and interactions with family, as most move out and the demographic and relationship changes to greatly after that point. Most older people generally only rely on their family and the true relationships come out when the SHTF. Otherwise the skeletons remain in the closet.


----------



## Squeakr

ButtPunch said:


> IDK people....those papers may knock a little sense into him. Unless she has got some secret ace in the hole, divorces are pretty vanilla. The papers let him know she means business and will not allow any cake eating.


Yes they can be, but if she is seeking much more than he feels she deserves and is seeking to keep him out of the picture regrading kids, then this could be the straw that pushes him to become even more nasty than he is already being (especially considering he has relatives that are lawyers and they can guide him is his actions). Tipping her hand at this point could be detrimental. Let him remain in his ideal of having the apprehend (as currently he thinks he is in the driver's seat).


----------



## badmemory

I tend to agree with not tipping your hand yet hurting; but even if you can't afford to file right now, you need to do what you can to retain an attorney now - to answer these types of questions. There will be more of them.

In regards to him in the house. No, you can't force him to stay out or give up his key. But you can tactfully request he stay out unless necessary and respect the situation he's put you in. This is a case where honey is better than vinegar. Maybe he'll honor your request.


----------



## ButtPunch

Squeakr said:


> Yes they can be, but if she is seeking much more than he feels she deserves and is seeking to keep him out of the picture regrading kids, then this could be the straw that pushes him to become even more nasty than he is already being (especially considering he has relatives that are lawyers and they can guide him is his actions). Tipping her hand at this point could be detrimental. Let him remain in his ideal of having the apprehend (as currently he thinks he is in the driver's seat).


OK....I'm on board with the this. It makes sense.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Squeakr said:


> Although this seems like a good idea in theory, generally we will never get close enough to be able to make such true and objective observations, unless we are young and have met our potential mate at a young age and have grown up around them. Most if us will have met our mate later on in life and not really be close enough to have a "true" feeling for the relationship and interactions with family, as most move out and the demographic and relationship changes to greatly after that point. Most older people generally only rely on their family and the true relationships come out when the SHTF. Otherwise the skeletons remain in the closet.



My cousins actually spend quality time with their potential mate and their family. My brother went over seas with his fiance's family and my mother gets along with her parents. Our family does it differently I guess. The divorce rate of my family is around 20%. That includes aunts , uncles, cousins, and grandparents. My family is large. My father has 7 brothers and sisters. I see what you mean, and my family operates differently. Even Thanksgiving, the two family would share it together, with both sets of parents there.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I would be of the frame of mind of being SO calm, SO cool, SO collected that it kind of freaks him out. "You want to leave.. oh! ok! let me help you ." "What can I do to help you leave and create your new amazing life, Sugar?" DO the exact opposite of what he expects. He will not know how to act. And it would TOTALLY take the steam out of "I'm going to punish her for what she did."

Too bad you're not Southern... the Sugar Pie, Darlin', Dumplin' language REALLY puts the starch in moves like that. lol


----------



## hurtinginohio

Blossom Leigh said:


> I would be of the frame of mind of being SO calm, SO cool, SO collected that it kind of freaks him out. "You want to leave.. oh! ok! let me help you ." "What can I do to help you leave and create your new amazing life, Sugar?" DO the exact opposite of what he expects. He will not know how to act. And it would TOTALLY take the steam out of "I'm going to punish her for what she did."


He did text after a bit then to ask if he could have 2 framed photos that his parents had given to him, the photographer is a family friend. I replied, "sure, they're yours". He replied "thank you" and I just said "I'm not trying to keep any of your personal items". Furniture or any household items that might make his move more comfortable, no, he can't take that stuff out of OUR home, but gifts from his parents? have at it!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> He did text after a bit then to ask if he could have 2 framed photos that his parents had given to him, the photographer is a family friend. I replied, "sure, they're yours". He replied "thank you" and I just said "I'm not trying to keep any of your personal items". Furniture or any household items that might make his move more comfortable, no, he can't take that stuff out of OUR home, but gifts from his parents? have at it!


Oh, yea, I wasn't referring to that stuff... I was commenting on the speed with which he wants to leave. He wants to leave fast I would add propulsion to it. To the degree that it totally freaks him out since he thinks the speed he is going for divorce is your punishment. The only way to take that control out of his hands is to move faster than he is and he MIGHT say, well, what if I dont' WANT to leave.. Hey, stop pushing me... lol. Just a thought.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I think as long as the separation papers say what will most likely happen, then you aren't tipping your hand. 

His texts were all about how HE is filing for divorce, that it is his doing. 

I think the separation papers show that you aren't putting up with any of his crap.


----------



## Squeakr

Mr.Fisty said:


> My cousins actually spend quality time with their potential mate and their family. My brother went over seas with his fiance's family and my mother gets along with her parents. Our family does it differently I guess. The divorce rate of my family is around 20%. That includes aunts , uncles, cousins, and grandparents. My family is large. My father has 7 brothers and sisters. I see what you mean, and my family operates differently. Even Thanksgiving, the two family would share it together, with both sets of parents there.


My family operates entirely differently than that and I will be the first on my Dad's side and the second on my Mom's side to get divorced, so not prevalent within my family. However on her side, I found out years later about the infidelity, and various other unsavory things in the families past. Let's face it, no matter how much you think you know the family will hide the real "deal breakers" from you as they are just as embarrassed of it as you will be when you find out. No one wants to air their dirty laundry, especially when you aren't an "official" member of the family, lest they scare you off (and not everyone is doomed to repeat the errors of their relatives, if that is the case then my kids might as well not even try relationships or marriage as they are doomed).


----------



## Squeakr

SadSamIAm said:


> I think as long as the separation papers say what will most likely happen, then you aren't tipping your hand.
> 
> His texts were all about how HE is filing for divorce, that it is his doing.
> 
> I think the separation papers show that you aren't putting up with any of his crap.


Agreed, but she said everything she wanted was spelled out ini there, and this is where the hand tipping comes into place. When he sees what she wants and is going after, it can make him change his approach possibly (hence tipping her hand(. Keeping him in the dark is the best, as she has said she is fine with it, and letting him know that gives nothing away, but if he sees what she is fighting after, then he could remove it from the house or do something to wreck her plan. Everyone knows that it is hard to get it back once it is removed from the house.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I had my daughter pull the papers when she went home for lunch. He should be there anytime now...


----------



## alte Dame

I think that he has had his whirlwind week of euphoria capped with fury and then soothing by his mom. Now he has to come home and deal with the reality of a life that he thought he could just change on a selfish whim. Clearly, he wanted everyone to fall in line with his plans and wish him well. Even you.

For me, it's important to keep your moral compass in sight.

He has fixed on the college daughter to tar you. Why? Because it is a reflexive indignation about 'involving innocent children.'

But she is an adult and what you did was moral: You contacted an adult to ask to be put in touch with the BH whose life path your WH and his OW were deciding in secret. Just think about it and stop feeling any doubt about how you exposed. They were making the most personal, intimate decisions about a man's marriage without his knowledge. He had every right to know. You had a duty to tell him. You did the moral thing.

Your WH, on the other hand, was euphoric about his planned sexcapade with another woman. He and she are both married with families that they were happily blowing up in the name of 'following their stars.' There is a reason that society condemns his actions. They are immoral. They are deceitful. They harm others with their selfishness.

This is the reality that he, by all rights, should be coming home to.

I hope you will be as calm as possible in terms of your conscience. I hope you won't be made to feel guilty about your behavior. I believe that when the dust settles, he will feel shame about his end of things, even if he never has the courage to admit it.

You know you need an attorney. I know that financial considerations can make this very difficult, but I hope you will continue to pursue whatever affordable options there might be where you live.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thank you! No, I feel NO guilt for contacting the daughter, none. I'm just angry that I have to deal with HIS anger towards me. In my brain I know why he's acting like this, but it doesn't make me feel any better.


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> Thank you! No, I feel NO guilt for contacting the daughter, none. I'm just angry that I have to deal with HIS anger towards me. In my brain I know why he's acting like this, but it doesn't make me feel any better.


Don't take this the wrong way hurting; but based on your former mindset, I think his anger at you has helped bring you clarity of purpose. And based on what he did to you, that's a good thing.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well I got another text from him this afternoon. We have a therapy appointment for today at 6. He had told me last week he wasn't going, that I should just take it so that's what I'd planned. However, now he wants to go too, BUT only to talk about how we can be civil and co-parent, NOT to work on our relationship. I think I'll go and just let him talk, but won't offer anything up unless I'm asked.


----------



## Trying95

I think you should. It will be interesting to see how he "justifies" you and your "bad behavior" contacting the OW's daughter as his reason for not working on the marriage. The therapist will want to know what has happened between the first appointment and this one.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Wow... he is wanting to control this every step of the way. He has designs to tell you just like it's going to be and has "recruited" a proxy to help him accomplish that goal. 


*Don't go*. Get your own recovery space for a while first.

Coparenting therapy does not have to be started this instant especially since y'all aren't even divorced yet! Geeze. You've barely begun dealing with the infidelity. I have no doubt you would co-parent well without him dictating to you how to do that. Tell this impatient a$$ that you need affair trauma and divorce care first.... coparenting will come later. Thanks but no thanks.


----------



## Squeakr

Don't bet that he hasn't been coached by someone that he should make the attempts so as to minimize the negative actions he has accounted to him after the infidelity has come out. He is in CYA mode now.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Squeakr said:


> Don't bet that he hasn't been coached by someone that he should make the attempts so as to minimize the negative actions he has accounted to him after the infidelity has come out. He is in CYA mode now.


YEP, call your attorney ASAP

IF you do decide to go look at both of them and tell them that you truly need affair trauma and divorce care first and that you will be willing to address this later.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yep, I'm sure he wants to blast me and say how "mentally unstable" I was for contacting the daughter, that's what he's telling friends. If I do go, and say anything, I will use Blossom's advice that I need affair care before I can wrap my head around co-parenting with someone who less than 2 months ago was my loving husband. I can't make the switch as fast as he apparently can.


----------



## badmemory

Yet another good question for an attorney.

You need to ask yourself - what's in this for you or your children, if you attend with him? It's no longer about what's best for your marriage, it's about what's best for your divorce.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Nothing gets my keester revved faster than an arrogant attempt at forceful control of another person. Blossom is mad FOR you HIO.


----------



## yeah_right

I wouldn't go. He could claim that he "tried" to salvage the marriage by going to therapy, which is BS. Since he clearly has zero interest in being a husband right now, couples marriage counseling is pointless. Waste of time and money, and will only upset you. It's a power play by him.

You're still in 180 mode. Co-parenting can be worked out with a mediator/judge/attorney...not a therapist.

My vote is decline.


----------



## thenub

If you do happen to go, bring up the nightmares your daughter is having and ask about counseling for her.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

thenub said:


> If you do happen to go, bring up the nightmares your daughter is having and ask about counseling for her.


:iagree: Righteous move.... it would be PERFECT if the counselor asked him if he was even aware.


----------



## alte Dame

I suspect he's afraid to see you alone and the therapist can provide some backup for him. It's not unheard of for a therapist to fail when it comes to moral clarity, so I hope you will stay firm and refuse to get defensive when he gets on his high horse.

He's the one who broke it. There's not much solace in that, but at least you will be able to live with yourself as time goes on.


----------



## hurtinginohio

alte Dame said:


> I suspect he's afraid to see you alone and the therapist can provide some backup for him. It's not unheard of for a therapist to fail when it comes to moral clarity, so I hope you will stay firm and refuse to get defensive when he gets on his high horse.
> 
> He's the one who broke it. There's not much solace in that, but at least you will be able to live with yourself as time goes on.


Thanks, I agree. I think this will also be the last session with this therapist. She's the one who told me that the OW was not my competitions, well 2 days later is when I found out they were planning to shack up in a hotel together.

I have another appt. with another one in January, just for myself.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Protect your heart....


----------



## Squeakr

yeah_right said:


> couples marriage counseling is pointless.


Actually marriage counseling is not for only saving the marriage but for ending if peacefully and gracefully. Depends on the route taken and the outcomes desired and stated at the onset. We had a few counselors that asked us ini the beginning what we were desiring "to see the marriage" or "end it and move on" so that they could help us as we best desired. The ideal and generally accepted thought is that MC is for saving the marriage, but if neither party wants that it can also be used to gain closure, address parenting issue and how to resolve them in a broken/ split household, and to move one peacefully from a broken house and marriage. You just need to make your intentions known so the counselor can assist you in reaching your desired goal, and if they aren't equipped for such assistance then to recommend someone that is.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks, I agree. I think this will also be the last session with this therapist. She's the one who told me that the OW was not my competitions, well 2 days later is when I found out they were planning to shack up in a hotel together.
> 
> I have another appt. with another one in January, just for myself.


Don't fret it. Unfortunately, most counselors aren't properly trained or equipped to deal with infidelity and seem to fall back on the some old "you need to stop competing and get over it ideal". They would rather tell you what they think you need than listen to what you actually need and help you achieve it.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well that went horribly. Either mc is not for me, or she's just not a very good one. She seems to have agreed with him since day one, and basically has told me I need to accept that he wants to leave the marriage and deal with it. I'm too drained to rehash what we talked about, but it boils down to H thinking I'm the one in the wrong because of exposure, and by doing so I've pushed him even further away. I don't think that was possible. 

I still just feel like he has this whole army of friends & family and now even the counselor backing him. Meanwhile I'm blind sided & floundering.


----------



## Q tip

Hard to push rope.

Here's an opposite idea...

Perhaps let him know you look forward to the day you'll be free to date real men. Many of them and get a choice to find a decent, rich caring guy who will meet all of your needs.

Yes, I know.... Really not a great thought.


----------



## Squeakr

Sorry but that seems to be the norm these days which is why I said you need a counselor that specializes in infidelity as most seem to have this progressive ideal that cheating and open marriage is no big deal. I am there with you in that it feels that the entire world is on the WS's side and against the BS. What makes matters worse is your actions are despicable and the actions of cheating are acceptable and no real big deal. At least that is the way it seems. Sorry for your hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks, I'm just glad I can come here and talk to people who really get it. I hate the feeling like I'm drowning which is what it's been like for the past month.

I guess I'm going to have to move over to the divorce forum...


----------



## joslin

My hubby did this years ago and my post will not go on forever. You can be mad and hurt and fight forever, you can leave him, you can forgive him (if you know he's sorry and it won't happen again). I did the whole stay mad and not forgive thing. It only made things worse, horrible in fact. Forgive or let go. Don't waste time on being angry, or sad. And yes I'm aware this is easier said than done!


----------



## alte Dame

People think infidelity is just one of those things until it happens to them.

I don't think he has an army of supporters at all. I just think people are his friends and family, so they will listen. It doesn't mean that they are cheering him on based on the merits of what he has done. They are just doing what friends and family do; they are staying in the circle. Even his enabling mama isn't really against you. She's just in favor of anything her little boy wants.

At the same time, they don't really need other people's drama. You may think they are supporting him, but I doubt they really are very admiring or or even interested in his crazy affair. To them, they just probably want the two of you to 'get past it.'

The MC is another story. I hope you won't return to her. 

And as for you hanging out there alone - you have your children and grandchildren. He has lost their respect. Even the ones who are too young to really understand will figure it out when they are older. You have the prize. He has the karma bus headed his way.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Get your own recovery space in addition to TAM.

So sorry Hio


----------



## Mr.Fisty

hurtinginohio said:


> Well that went horribly. Either mc is not for me, or she's just not a very good one. She seems to have agreed with him since day one, and basically has told me I need to accept that he wants to leave the marriage and deal with it. I'm too drained to rehash what we talked about, but it boils down to H thinking I'm the one in the wrong because of exposure, and by doing so I've pushed him even further away. I don't think that was possible.
> 
> I still just feel like he has this whole army of friends & family and now even the counselor backing him. Meanwhile I'm blind sided & floundering.



Your counselor is incompetent. She failed to recognize some flaw in that logic. He should have divorced you before starting a new relationship.  The fact was, he was in two relationship at once, breaking his commitment to you. Why did she not question him about divorcing you at all? I am not a trained counselor, and I can spot this. Why did she not question him on his rash decision to leave a marriage for someone who he really does not know? There is so much more, and I can see where couples counseling gets a bad name. There are few threads on here where a couple actually found a decent counselor.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Btw, whenever your communicating with him, use very little words as possible, and don't try and explain anything to him. Start making plans with friends and family and stay busy. You have more important things to do, then focusing on him and what he is doing. Seek a support system like blossom suggested. having a face that you can relate to will help. If your with common friends, don't even discuss the relationship if you can, and don't complain about him to them. It will show a contrast between the two of you. This is where the support system will come in handy. Those who went through it can relate with you, and common friends don't want to be in the middle.

Remember, he is the type of person who will not own his own issue. He will shift blame everywhere but on himself. Even if he does have a relationship with ow, those problems are not going anywhere because he has not dealt with them. He still will be this immature person in his next relationship.


----------



## Affaircare

HIO, 

I would like to remind you that MC are humans too and can make mistakes and even think in ways that are immoral and dishonest! I know people tend to think of like pastors and counselors and judges as people who are "wise" and can tell the difference between "the truth" and "a lie" and who would be on the side of fairness and right. 

Well....

In real life they are humans same as you or I, and just like our spouses, they can choose to do wrong purposely or just come to a wrong conclusion based on not having enough information. In real life this MC may have had an affair of his or her own, and if they were to confront your H on his behavior, they would have to look in the mirror and confront themselves! Or likewise maybe this MC has training in psychology and techniques, but has never dealt with helping a couple SURVIVE adultery. That actually takes specialized, focused training and it doesn't hurt to have survived it themselves!

So I hope you don't take this too hard. In real life sometimes people disappoint us. We'd like to think that parents would have the courage to tell their child to DO THE RIGHT THING! And that they would think "the right thing" is to honor their marriage vows and work it out with their spouse. We'd like to think that friends would be a TRUE friend and tell their buddy or girlfriend, "What you're doing is wrong. Please stop flirting with that other person and go fix things with your spouse." Right? We'd like to think that pastors and counselors would say "Oh adultery is wrong, I don't care if you do think it was fate" but boy even sometimes pastors get it wrong! I heard of one story where a wife was in the praise band at church and her husband caught her having an affair with another member of the band--so the hubby takes the evidence to the pastor and the pastor said "Well we need them in the band for that ministry!" I kid you not!!

But HIO, you are not nuts. And you are not alone. WE have all been through it and each one of us knows that even if he really was done, the right thing to do would have been to end the marriage and ONCE FREE...then begin to look for someone. It just is never, EVER, not for any reason EVER right to commit adultery. And it is the coward's way out. YOU know this--I know you do. I know this. Blossom knows this. Everyone on this thread knows this. And some portion of your husband and even the MC knows this too, but here in the USA the climate now is that if something is the slightest bit hard or "not fun" to just dump it and get a new one. We do what we KNOW is wrong, and then make laws to make it "legal" and "acceptable" because we WANT to do what we know is wrong and don't want to feel bad about it. 

So don't feel bad. Too many people now-a-days will take the easy way out and give excuses rather than taking personal responsibility. Too many people would rather "make themselves happy" than be moral people of high character. That's really sad--for them. You don't have to join their ranks. Just because your husband, his family and the MC have immoral qualities doesn't mean you're wrong or that being immoral is right, does it? And I am PROUD of you that so far, you have held yourself to a higher road. That (again) speaks VOLUMES about you and about him.


----------



## thenub

My thoughts are with you. I hope you are doing well.


----------



## ButtPunch

Never set foot in that idiot counselors office again. I would reject any offers from him for counseling as it is waste of money as long as he is in contact with OW.

Unless he owns up to his mistakes and is remorseful, it's 180 time and full speed ahead on the divorce.


----------



## jld

The MC may have feared alienating your husband. She may have felt you wanted the marriage more, and that if he were not appeased, he would not come back.

You showed _her!_


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks everyone, it was a rough night, not much sleep. I'm mad at myself because I feel like I made so much progress last week, then shot it all to hell yesterday. I have an appt. in Jan. for IC at another office, I will never go back there again.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I understand that frustration very well.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks everyone, it was a rough night, not much sleep. I'm mad at myself because I feel like I made so much progress last week, then shot it all to hell yesterday. I have an appt. in Jan. for IC at another office, I will never go back there again.



It is like a pendulum swing, and the more you are detaching, the less it will swing. When your fully detached emotionally, most things he does will not bother you unless it affecs you and your daughters. It is still in the early stages, and this is why you need an outlet.


----------



## Trying95

That counselor was an idiot and should have been questioning him regarding his behavior and how his morals were still in place. I'm sorry you went through that. I am more thankful for the therapist that I had as he zeroed right in on my husband's thought processes and got him to see how they did not contribute to the marriage in a positive way. Perhaps try to find someone else for IC before January? It might help...or just keep venting on here.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Trying95 said:


> That counselor was an idiot and should have been questioning him regarding his behavior and how his morals were still in place. I'm sorry you went through that. I am more thankful for the therapist that I had as he zeroed right in on my husband's thought processes and got him to see how they did not contribute to the marriage in a positive way. Perhaps try to find someone else for IC before January? It might help...or just keep venting on here.


Right? She never once called him out on anything. He said he wanted out of the marriage so she ran with that. god, even most divorce attorneys will tell you to really think about it before making such a life changing decision.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

THIS is the problem with "find your happiness" mentality. NO accountability whatsoever and IC's who crush marriages in the process.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well he is coming over tonight to talk to our daughter. He hasn't seen her in over 2 weeks except for her concert last Tuesday night. So, she is still confused as to what is really going on. I told him he needs to tell her himself, in person what his choices are and why. This is going to crush her, I just want to protect her. I also want him to see just how much his selfishness is affecting other people.

any words of wisdom?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Come to a mutual agreement that neither of you will speak ill of the other. She is not mature enough to understand an adult relationship. Tell him you will be cordial with him and he should offer you the same, and that this is between the two of you. You pretty much want to keep your daughters out of the drama.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Omg... When I was 12, I was forced to say goodbye to my birth dad for three years, but at the time I thought it was permanent. I deeply feel for her...


----------



## badmemory

Blossom Leigh said:


> Omg... When I was 12, I was forced to say goodbye to my birth dad for three years, but at the time I thought it was permanent. I deeply feel for her...


I would remind him that while the two of you should agree to not cast each other in a bad light; and that the message should be age appropriate - that you won't lie to her; and you expect the same from him.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Your MC was a bozo. Probably surrounded natural wall hangings and potted plants....wannabe's.

Dont bother with MC unless its someone who is certified in marriage therapy.

Good luck with this. It has been a long ride for you...but you have a ways left to go.


----------



## hurtinginohio

O yeah, the mc looked at me like I had 2 heads when I talked about exposure of an affair to end it. I don't think she's ever heard of it! She kept on and on about what I thought I was going to gain by exposing it. Basically telling me to accept that H wants out of the marriage and I need to do whatever it is to move on and be happy. the more I think about it the madder I get! She was so full of sh!t!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Amazing...


----------



## Abc123wife

hurtinginohio said:


> O yeah, the mc looked at me like I had 2 heads when I talked about exposure of an affair to end it. I don't think she's ever heard of it! She kept on and on about what I thought I was going to gain by exposing it. Basically telling me to accept that H wants out of the marriage and I need to do whatever it is to move on and be happy. the more I think about it the madder I get! She was so full of sh!t!


It almost sounds like your H met with this counselor ahead of time and let her know his plan. Did you mention to the counselor that part of the reason for your exposure was to make OW's husband aware of the affair as you did not want another spouse to be surprised by betrayal?


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> O yeah, the mc looked at me like I had 2 heads when I talked about exposure of an affair to end it. I don't think she's ever heard of it! She kept on and on about what I thought I was going to gain by exposing it. Basically telling me to accept that H wants out of the marriage and I need to do whatever it is to move on and be happy. the more I think about it the madder I get! She was so full of sh!t!


Yep and it is a no win situation. If she would have supported you, he would have thought her a quack and stated so unequivocally. Now that she is supporting him, he will have nothing but good to say and feel validated in all of his actions. He will point to her recommendations and state that she is trained in the science and knows what is best so you should just move on. I now how this goes, as when they aren't getting their kudos for their heinous actions the therapist is a quack and the science behind it is flawed, yet when they find one that supports them fully then they are in full agreement how great the therapist and science is.


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> She was so full of sh!t!


You took the words right out of my mouth. I'm sure there are a lot of competent MC's and IC's out there, but I haven't come across one yet. I had a IC tell me right after Dday, that I should look to improve the things I did that "caused" my wife's infidelity. She was an idiot and so is yours.

You were absolutely right to expose him and he absolutely deserved it.

Now, keep that 180 going and work on your exit plan. Get that attorney going. Hup, hup.


----------



## Working1

hurtinginohio said:


> O yeah, the mc looked at me like I had 2 heads when I talked about exposure of an affair to end it. I don't think she's ever heard of it! She kept on and on about what I thought I was going to gain by exposing it. Basically telling me to accept that H wants out of the marriage and I need to do whatever it is to move on and be happy. the more I think about it the madder I get! She was so full of sh!t!


So sorry you had to hear all of that.

Exposing is always a bit sloppy, it exposes you as well, it creates a lot of drama and it can make it harder to overcome the affair if it turns out the marriage is reconcilable.

However, it was your last resort. It was either expose or do nothing and watch the inevitable demise of your marriage. In addition, it has its own therapeutic value to address everybody involved on your own terms. 

I am surprised your MC doesn't understand that perspective, although I do know of a couple very well respected therapists that do take that stand.


----------



## Divinely Favored

When you get your new phone if a new # be sure to call other BS and give him you new #. Did you talk to him about some of the things you knew?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

I know it's hard to have confidence that you did the right thing in the face of a 'professional' who is, at best, morally incoherent.

I'm telling the truth when I say that I would have felt confident doubling down on the exposure. I would have found a way to get all of my data to the OWH. For me, the OW had some real comeuppance coming given how active she was in convincing your WH to leave you.

I also would get a small campaign together to write some honest online reviews of the MC's shortcomings.

Just me, of course. Both of these things are thematic - warning other people about the harmful behavior of others.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I would have said to the mc that I least gave another family a chance to remained intact. Perhaps they have a chance to work on their marriage before more damage was done by your husband sleeping with another married woman. Maybe your husband should have filed the divorce if he was going to leave you. You could of have respected your husband more if he ended one relationship before starting a new one. I would have slowly explained to the mc that deception is usually a bad thing in a relationship. I would probably talked to her if she were a child, and a dense one at that. Perhaps she does not see honesty should be a great quality to have in a mariage , but to you it is important.

Perhaps you should do mental exercise and start seeing your husband as your ex. If you feel built up tension and anger, do a high intense activity. Being neutral around him is the best way to treat him from now on. He does not deserve your emotional energy, at least do not show any in front of him.


----------



## Affaircare

hurtinginohio said:


> Well he is coming over tonight to talk to our daughter. He hasn't seen her in over 2 weeks except for her concert last Tuesday night. So, she is still confused as to what is really going on. I told him he needs to tell her himself, in person what his choices are and why. This is going to crush her, I just want to protect her. I also want him to see just how much his selfishness is affecting other people.
> 
> any words of wisdom?


Yes--my best advice is always, ALWAYS tell the truth to everyone, including your children. You don't do them any good if they are told "nothing" by you and they hear from the cheater that "sometimes mommies and daddies just stop loving each other...." 

See you do not want to involve your children in adult life--they are children and not equipped for all the adult stuff. BUT your daughter IS involved in that she knows something is up, and she knows all-of-a-sudden her dad disappeared. Usually kids tend to think they did something bad or somehow blame it on themselves (and that's partly a defense mechanism because if it was them, they can "stop doing that" and fix it all, right?). But you don't want your child learning confusing morals from all this nor blaming herself. 

Thus, I encourage parents to tell their children the truth at an age-appropriate level. Usually it works fine to say "Well, I believe that moms and dads should only love each other and should not have boyfriends and girlfriends. You dad has a girlfriend so I do not think that's right and I asked him to stop it, but he disagreed. Let him tell you what he thinks okay? I'll just say that what I think is that when people get married, they make a promise to each other, and if you break the promise, the way to fix it is to say you're sorry and stop breaking the promise, right? That's what I believe."

If you go the route of just letting him tell her whatever :bsflag: he spouts, she will hear that "mommies and daddies just drift apart" but it will clash 100% with her moral compass. Kids have to share and just "get along" with the kid in class who's a jerk--why don't grownups? Kids have to be honest and not tell lies--why don't grownups? See what I mean? You want it to be *consistent*, and consistent is not "well parents can lie and hurt people but kids can't." 

So tell her the truth. Tell her you are hurt too, so it's natural for her to feel hurt if that's how she feels. Tell her you are confused too, so if she feels like that it's okay. Tell her what YOU believe and don't speak for him, and then let him speak for himself. She's not a really young, preschooler type, so she'll already have figured out some but is probably afraid to ask or bring it up. If YOU talk to HER about it, she'll probably feel a lot better being able to let it out! 

AND if he is the first one to talk to her, she's likely to hear that he can't be there because you threw him out because you're such an evil witch... etc. This is not true. What is true is that he had an affair, and the cost of choosing adultery is that you no longer live in the marital home....


----------



## Blossom Leigh

:allhail:


----------



## hurtinginohio

Ugh well that went even worse than I expected. It's gonna get ugly, he's just turning into a real **** while trying to keep our daughter thinking he's such a great father. God he makes me so angry! How can the love of your life turn into this person??

I really need to limit all contact with him, period.


----------



## jld

Good idea, hurting.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I am SO sorry!!!! He is a wrecking ball for sure. I pray your baby girl feels safe in your arms.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Just keep on being the stable parent in their life. When conversing with him, only respond to relevant messages, pretty much only if it is dealing with the children. Correct any misconceptions that he tried to place in her head. Do this by asking if she wants to talk that you are there for her. Let her ask you anything, and be truthful as best as you can.

Your viewing him from a past prospective, and you probably did not know him as well as you thought. Now your finding out that he can sink very low, and in order to get what he wants, he will say nearly anything, and portray anything. He is not adverse in using emotional manipulation.


----------



## ButtPunch

He must still be in contact with the OW and his Mom gave him some much needed validation. Be strong HIO and don't show him any vulnerability.


----------



## badmemory

Affaircare said:


> "Well, I believe that moms and dads should only love each other and should not have boyfriends and girlfriends. You dad has a girlfriend so I do not think that's right and I asked him to stop it, but he disagreed. Let him tell you what he thinks okay? I'll just say that what I think is that when people get married, they make a promise to each other, and if you break the promise, the way to fix it is to say you're sorry and stop breaking the promise, right? That's what I believe."


Excellent.


----------



## hurtinginohio

ButtPunch said:


> He must still be in contact with the OW and his Mom gave him some much needed validation. Be strong HIO and don't show him any vulnerability.


I think they must still be in contact, but I have no way of knowing for sure. Yes, his mother is validating his every thought and move, it's almost embarrassing. I know she is giving him money too.

I guess now I need to face facts and deal with the fact that my marriage is over. How do I stop obsessing about that fact all day, every day?


----------



## jld

Just give it time.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> I think they must still be in contact, but I have no way of knowing for sure. Yes, his mother is validating his every thought and move, it's almost embarrassing. I know she is giving him money too.
> 
> I guess now I need to face facts and deal with the fact that my marriage is over. How do I stop obsessing about that fact all day, every day?


If you find the answer to this let me know, as I am in the same boat. STBXW is still doing her thing, being supported by the entire family, both financially and emotionally, and couldn't really care less about the health and well being of the children. 

By all rights I should be done with this and moving on with my life, but still hung up in that state, so I know what you are going through and their is no miracle answer.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Take the time it takes so it takes less time

Forgive yourself that process

Become familiar with the grief cycle and just be aware of which phase you are in

don't hesitate to reach out to help

you do not have to suffer alone


----------



## Affaircare

Hurting, 

This is very similar to what you would experience if he had just suddenly died of a massive heart attack. 

At first you deny it, because "he was just healthy yesterday"...and for this you keep thinking "he was just loving to me last month." Another thing that is super typical is "Oh he won't get dirty if we file for divorce. He's not like that. He's pretty fair" and you keep thinking of the way he USED TO BE...not the new way he is now. In a weird way it helps if you think of this current person as an evil alien pod person who has inhabited your husband's body:










Then you might go into the "If Only" stage. "If Only I had had more sex!" "If Only we had gone to counseling sooner!" "If Only I had told XYZ they would have stopped him." This is actually a coping tool that we use to help feel like we are back in control of our lives. Right now your life is spinning out of control and things are being decided by others (your spouse, an attorney, a judge, etc.) that deeply affect you and you don't even have a say! So the "If Only" stage is one way to cope...like "if I just do THIS next time, I can prevent this horrible thing from happening again." 

Then you get angry...REALLY angry. I myself am about the most peaceful person I know because I just am at peace within myself, and yet during my own anger phase, I kind of scared myself. I wondered how long it would last--and if I'd ever "burn it off"! But I did. I was angry that he would do that to me. I was angry he would do that to our children. But mostly I was REALLY angry at myself for being suckered into believing I was loved when I wasn't. 

Next you might hit some depression. I have to be honest--I did. About this time the adrenalin in my system also ran out (you know--the adrenalin from all the fights and checking on him and not accepting it). So you might have a bit of a mental and physical crash, but again, I wouldn't worry too much as it is a Situational Depression -- the situation is rightly SAD! Now some folks will talk to their doc and get anti-D meds; some (like me) go the more natural herbal route; and some just process that this is one of the steps and get through it maybe with counseling and/or a support group. This too shall pass. 

Finally you hit acceptance. For me this took a couple years to be honest, but as each month went by and I worked through these stages, I did get better and better and better. I stopped hurting so much. I learned that I was LOVE-ABLE but he just chose to be the kind of person he chose to be...that wasn't about me. I learned that some men in the world want exactly what I have to offer, and even prize my attributes! I learned that I can be angry and how to do it in a healthy way. I learned some things about myself that I could improve (and I did) and I learned some things were just not my burden and I let those things go. 

And hurting, I highly suspect it will be similar for you--not that you'll follow these exactly or that you're experience will be like my experience--but rather that you will go through stages in YOUR TIME and you will gradually heal from this and learn just like I did. You are an amazing, strong, smart woman--I have no doubt in you whatsoever.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Great post AffairCare


----------



## jin

Affaircare do you think the cheater goes through a similar process?


----------



## dignityhonorpride

Like Blossom says, you have to let yourself move through the pain naturally. Trying to stifle it will only prolong it. In time you will look back on this period and it will feel strange, distant, and foreign.

Keep staying active and engaged with your kiddos. The running is awesome! Challenge yourself, set lots of new goals (Sprint triathlon? 10k? Learn a new language?), expand your horizons. 

Thinking of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## poida

badmemory said:


> You don't need to fight, he does. All you have to do is make a call on whether you will continue the marriage or not. This is all on him to convince you that's the right choice for you.


Hi Hurtinginohio,
The above statement means more than you can imagine. Yes, it takes two to tango in a marriage and both of you got it to where it is now, but once there is betrayal, the onus switches to the person who "left" the marriage to prove that he/she wants to "return" to the marriage, gain the trust of the BS. The BS then needs time, space and counselling to determine if they with to accept the wayward back into the relationship. 

ONLY THEN can you begin the process of working on the marriage again.


----------



## poida

And in my opinion, most people who cheat, simply don't have the character to repair the damage, which is why most cheating results in D.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I agree with AffairCare, you have to accept the reality of who he is. Some part of you keeps thinking that he will see reason, that if he loves me, he will not put me through this. If you view him like the drug addict that he is, his actions will make more sense.His hormones are affecting the portion of his brain responsible for his moral compass, and his judgement is severely impaired. Just like a drug addict, he will justify the need for his drug of choice. Like a meth addict hoping for the next high, your husband is waiting to get his fix, and it has become an obssession for him. 

You can't wait for him to turn around. These things could take months to years before the high eventually fades away. have you started visualizing him as your ex? Also his enabling mother helps him with his addiction.


----------



## Affaircare

jin said:


> Affaircare do you think the cheater goes through a similar process?


{threadjack}

This is a great question. I can honestly say that for me, in ways it was similar and in ways not, because while I was unfaithful, I knew it (to the extent that I was conscious and it wasn't a secret from me). So there was not traumatic "surprise" such as there is for a Loyal Spouse who thought their marriage was "pretty good but maybe in a rut" or the spouse whose husband or wife dies suddenly. That trauma brings triggers and frankly, I think of it like Infidelity PTSD. 

As a Disloyal the recovery period did have stages though, just like a Loyal Spouse's healing, and I did not/could not figure out what had happened and why for a long time. Okay let me rephrase that--I had to dig deep for a long while to see the chain of events, see my weakness in it, see where I went wrong, see what I needed to strengthen, etc. It took time to dig through all that to be able to now say 'Well I have a good grasp on why...". Make sense? 

Anyway, I would say Disloyal recovery also starts with some levels of denial, some of which occur during the affair (this isn't all THAT bad, I'm not the kind of person who'd cheat, I won't cross THAT line, etc.) and some of which occur afterwards (I'M THE SCUM OF THE EARTH! No wait, I'm not that bad. People have done worse. I didn't kill anyone...). Unlike Loyal denial, for a Disloyal the part you deny is looking "what you did" right in the face and naming it ADULTERY. 

The next stage for me wasn't "If Only" but more like "What if?" What if it doesn't work out? What if he holds it against me? What if I really try and I get punished all the time? What if it never gets any better? What if we can't fix this? What if I get what I deserve? This part felt the most scary for me because I was hurt and he was hurt and it would have been so easy to mess it up. It was really hard to trust that it would be safe for me to fall back in love with him. For me, I took this stage one step at a time, trusting to try a little toe in the water, and it was okay. Trusting to try to have fun together, and it was okay. Trusting to try talking about something that 'wasn't so fun' and it was okay. Likewise all the while I'm sure he felt like he couldn't trust me so I just slowly and steadily kept having my words and actions match EXACTLY. 

The phase after that was REALLY painful--I'd say I was really coming out of the fog at this point, and every single day I'd see more and more and more of the damage I'd done and what I'd be losing because of what I chose to do. I swear to God, while in the midst of the affair, I just didn't see it--I think mostly because you don't stop to think about it (or else you'd end the affair!). So you bury it and like teenagers who come into a messy livingroom and don't see the mess... you just don't see it! Then as the affair fog lifts, it hits you: I lost all my friends who were people I had grown to care about, and I will never know what happened to them. I lost my own integrity! I almost destroyed my husband! He occasionally would cry even afterward and he NEVER cries (he's a thinker guy, not a feeler so crying just doesn't happen). Yeah--this phase lead straight into the next one. 

The next part for me was enormous guilt and depression. Of course, I tend to blame myself for everything anyway (one of my character flaws) and I did feel so unworthy. It's incredible and impossible to explain, but have you ever had an instance where someone shows you deep kindness after you've just been an utter jerk to them? And instantly you feel ... well *unworthy *is the word that springs to mind. This one was a toughie. It felt like Atlas, holding up the world on my shoulders and it was crushing me. Of course, that was okay because I was responsible! I learned to bear the burden of the things to which I committed, though, so that was good...very good 

The last part of course was acceptance. I don't mince words on what I did--I stare it straight in the eye. I don't blame my Dear Hubby for what I did. We worked through it and did the hard work to be where we are today. And it took some time for me to realize I am a human too, and I make mistakes just like everyone else (although apparently mine are GREAT BIG ONES! lol). I had to get to know myself more and understand what it was that hit me so hard and hurt so much, and learn with my husband where we were missing the boat...all that stuff took time but we did it. And now it's the past for us and forgiven. The weird thing is, it's never forgotten. Obviously I write here and have my website, so it's on my mind all the time, but also it's kind of like the love in a marriage--you have to work at it every single day.

{/threadjack}


----------



## jin

Thanks for taking the time to write that Affaircare. It makes sense to me. I wonder what happened to my wife. I miss her. Unfortunately she is not interested in reconciling. Still in the fog it seems. 

Sorry for the thread jack HIO. If it means anything you are not alone in going through a separation/divorce this time of year.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

jin said:


> Thanks for taking the time to write that Affaircare. It makes sense to me. I wonder what happened to my wife. I miss her. Unfortunately she is not interested in reconciling. Still in the fog it seems.
> 
> Sorry for the thread jack HIO. If it means anything you are not alone in going through a separation/divorce this time of year.




Actually, during the fog, or hormonal highs, parts of the brain stop functioning as well as it should. Your moral compass is somewhat bypass for the brain to feed the need to reward the pleasure center of the brain. So, whatever your ap is doing for you, emotional, physical, or both, you keep returning to that person who is fulfilling that reward center. Also during the affair, there is a lot of bonding hormones being released, and it overrides your other bonds. From a biological standpoint, this is where people will mate like rabbits, and the residual hormones will create a bond so the pair can stay long enough together to raise a child. Placing stress onto the affair, makes the affair not so rewarding, and people start snapping out of it. It is not as thrilling, it is not as magical, and consequences start appearing.

So, usually people will not snap out of something, until a catastrophic event occurs, but some can't snap out of it yet, because the addiction is too great, and they become self-destructive. Their obssession is still too strong to overcome. They will grow resentful because you are stopping them from their addiction.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thank you all again for your kind words, I honestly don't know how I would deal had I not found TAM. Even if I don't reply for a while, I am reading, sometimes I'm just too exhausted to form a coherent sentence. These days I consider it success if I'm able to to put on a pair of pants!

Just to catch you on on the week. Monday was the mc from hell. Tuesday evening H came over to talk to DD, he hung around for an hour or so, but things felt very tense. Shortly after he left he started texting that he won't agree to sole custody, blah blah. After a few texts I decided not to engage & replied "we aren't doing anything til after the first of the year, so until after the holidays let's keep our contact limited to what involves DD". He replied fine.

Fast forward to yesterday morning I get an email regarding dance fees. Then after I get to work another email about student loans (from the older kids). Then in the afternoon I get this email, "can I come over tomorrow night? Maybe play some guitar hero with DD?". I replied that I would check with her and get back to him. He replied, "I'll be in the area & thought it would be fun for a little bit". Then, last night when I was at the grocery store I get a text that said "DD's new phone came today but I won't activate it until Xmas". I replied, ok. That was it, I initiated no contact myself & gave him short, to the point replies. Now, I just need to keep this up!


----------



## ButtPunch

When I went thru my split with my wife, I think I handled things similarly to the way you are. I was devastated but had TAM and was able to put up a good front. One thing I did was to establish a visitation schedule with my WW immediately. I gave her the children every other weekend and on Wednesdays from 3-7. This will give you, him, and your D some structure. It also sets a precedent that the judge will see. This was real important in my case since I was the Father with a six and three year old trying to get primary custody.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

hurtinginohio said:


> Thank you all again for your kind words, I honestly don't know how I would deal had I not found TAM. Even if I don't reply for a while, I am reading, sometimes I'm just too exhausted to form a coherent sentence. These days I consider it success if I'm able to to put on a pair of pants!
> 
> Just to catch you on on the week. Monday was the mc from hell. Tuesday evening H came over to talk to DD, he hung around for an hour or so, but things felt very tense. Shortly after he left he started texting that he won't agree to sole custody, blah blah. After a few texts I decided not to engage & replied "we aren't doing anything til after the first of the year, so until after the holidays let's keep our contact limited to what involves DD". He replied fine.
> 
> Fast forward to yesterday morning I get an email regarding dance fees. Then after I get to work another email about student loans (from the older kids). Then in the afternoon I get this email, "can I come over tomorrow night? Maybe play some guitar hero with DD?". I replied that I would check with her and get back to him. He replied, "I'll be in the area & thought it would be fun for a little bit". Then, last night when I was at the grocery store I get a text that said "DD's new phone came today but I won't activate it until Xmas". I replied, ok. That was it, I initiated no contact myself & gave him short, to the point replies. Now, I just need to keep this up!




Keep the stress and consequences coming. The more stress you place on him, the less the affair becomes rewarding. His communication with you in the future will increase, and you have to ignore the ones that don't deal with your kids. Soon the affair fantasy will turn into any other ordinary relationship whith drama and issues appearing. If she rejects him, watch out for him begging to come back.

Also, keep in contact with O.w.h., make sure he stays vigilant on his end. The pressure coming from both sides will burst their happy little relationship.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I sent OWH a text the other day & he replied to please not contact him or his family again. So I'll respect that, he has my # if he wants to reach out.

Just a few min ago I got a text from H asking the name of the place where we rent DD's violin since he was taking it to be repaired today. Uh pretty sure there's a hang tag on the violin with all the info. Now it's like he's just looking for excuses to contact me.


----------



## farsidejunky

hurtinginohio said:


> I sent OWH a text the other day & he replied to please not contact him or his family again. So I'll respect that, he has my # if he wants to reach out.
> 
> Just a few min ago I got a text from H asking the name of the place where we rent DD's violin since he was taking it to be repaired today. Uh pretty sure there's a hang tag on the violin with all the info. Now it's like he's just looking for excuses to contact me.


It is starting. This part will require more strength than anything else to this point.

When he asks you to come back, you have to know two things:

1. Whether you are willing to accept him back
2. What you will require of him should the answer to number 1 be yes

Start thinking about this now, HIO. And steel yourself. The really dificult part just started.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I don't know that he wants to come back ever, part of me feels he is trying to play nice so that things don't get uglier when/if we go to court.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

hurtinginohio said:


> I sent OWH a text the other day & he replied to please not contact him or his family again. So I'll respect that, he has my # if he wants to reach out.
> 
> Just a few min ago I got a text from H asking the name of the place where we rent DD's violin since he was taking it to be repaired today. Uh pretty sure there's a hang tag on the violin with all the info. Now it's like he's just looking for excuses to contact me.



Wow, it is starting already. Seems like their little affair is broken, but it is no guarantee. I would ignore the text. Until he starts talking about the marriage, do not let him hook you in. Until he shows remorse, do not talk to him about the relationship. Show him that he can't go and come as he pleases. Your goal is to be fine with or without him in your life. You need that so if you do decide to take him back, he will have that in the back of his mind.


----------



## ButtPunch

Just text him the answer and move on with your day. Let's not overthink this.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

If that is the case, keep on working on yourself. Your goal in all this is to learn to be single again, and healthy on your own. Your goal is pretty much becoming an independent person.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> I don't know that he wants to come back ever, part of me feels he is trying to play nice so that things don't get uglier when/if we go to court.


Very real possibility... being nice could totally be to mitigate divorce damages. Resist internalizing any sweet talk.


----------



## hurtinginohio

ButtPunch said:


> Just text him the answer and move on with your day. Let's not overthink this.


That's what I did, one word answer, he replied with a rambling thank you which I ignored.


----------



## Openminded

The fact that the OWH wants you to stop contacting his family indicates to me he is trying to work things out with her. If that's true, your husband may be feeling left out in the cold. So, yes, he could be fishing for a way back in your life.


----------



## yeah_right

Openminded said:


> The fact that the OWH wants you to stop contacting his family indicates to me he is trying to work things out with her. If that's true, your husband may be feeling left out in the cold. So, yes, he could be fishing for a way back in your life.


And it may also confirm that OW was not as invested in the "relationship" as WH was. Either way, if WH clears the fog and wants to R, it's no longer up to him. The choice belongs to HIO and she should not feel any pressure.

Until we know what WH's intentions are (and he probably doesn't know himself), HIO needs to maintain the 180 for her sanity. WH is trying to engage her in conversations. Yes, no answers for home and financial questions should be the norm. No larger discussions unless it concerns the health of DD.

No matter what happens, WH still needs to see his DD. But it should be on a set schedule. He can choose one evening a week, time on the weekend and HIO can explain that a more formal visitation schedule will be set during the divorce (that should irk him). 

He does not get to come home on Christmas!!!!! DD does not deserve that tension. She needs to have her special day and it needs to be with the parent who did not abandon her.


----------



## ButtPunch

Sounds to me OWH has been gaslighted and fed a bunch of sh*t. I believe OW has just taken it underground. I do believe WH does not feel as safe now as he did before exposure but no matter. 180 and limited contact (kids only) is the only way to go. Nothing changes.


----------



## karole

yeah_right said:


> And it may also confirm that OW was not as invested in the "relationship" as WH was. Either way, if WH clears the fog and wants to R, it's no longer up to him. The choice belongs to HIO and she should not feel any pressure.
> 
> Until we know what WH's intentions are (and he probably doesn't know himself), HIO needs to maintain the 180 for her sanity. WH is trying to engage her in conversations. Yes, no answers for home and financial questions should be the norm. No larger discussions unless it concerns the health of DD.
> 
> No matter what happens, WH still needs to see his DD. But it should be on a set schedule. He can choose one evening a week, time on the weekend and HIO can explain that a more formal visitation schedule will be set during the divorce (that should irk him).
> 
> He does not get to come home on Christmas!!!!! DD does not deserve that tension. She needs to have her special day and it needs to be with the parent who did not abandon her.


AMEN!! Great Post!!


----------



## Squeakr

yeah_right said:


> And it may also confirm that OW was not as invested in the "relationship" as WH was. Either way, if WH clears the fog and wants to R, it's no longer up to him. The choice belongs to HIO and she should not feel any pressure.
> 
> Until we know what WH's intentions are (and he probably doesn't know himself), HIO needs to maintain the 180 for her sanity. WH is trying to engage her in conversations. Yes, no answers for home and financial questions should be the norm. No larger discussions unless it concerns the health of DD.
> 
> No matter what happens, WH still needs to see his DD. But it should be on a set schedule. He can choose one evening a week, time on the weekend and HIO can explain that a more formal visitation schedule will be set during the divorce (that should irk him).
> 
> He does not get to come home on Christmas!!!!! DD does not deserve that tension. She needs to have her special day and it needs to be with the parent who did not abandon her.



It doesn't matter what the H's intentions are, as now HIO is in the driver's seat and gets to decide if the chance will ever be given to R or not. It is solely her decision at this point.

Since they are neither legally separated or going through D, she doesn't get to set these terms you describe. It is something the two of them need to agree upon and what they feel is the best for the DD and not something that should be dealt out as a punishment (which is how you are describing it). Even though she is not the one that has done the wrong, HIO has no rights at this point to set such terms or make such demands. It is still his house, his child, and he still has rights to both. He hasn't been violent so there is no reason that he should be denied such rights and privileges at this point until legal actions are in place.

Also, it is wrong to say that he abandoned the DD. He might have moved out for the time, but he is maintaining contact, paying bills, and trying to be a part of her life. He might have left HIO, but at this point he hasn't abandoned anyone and because they are having issues the DD shouldn't be used as a weapon against the other, that would be the most detrimental to her. If it is truly her special day, then DD should get to decide how and with whom it is spent (and both should honor that decision and be amicable in doing so). Funny how when I made the same comment a while ago about WW abandoning their children to have and facilitate their As, I got a whole boat load of [email protected] shed upon me as I was told the WW always only conducted their A, when they were on their time and never took away from nor abandoned the children and were always there for them, but now that the same is being said about the WH, it is acceptable. I have to say if it didn't apply then, it doesn't apply now, so lets not go there.

Also I am not defending him here, but he does have rights and they can't just be taken away at will like some here are suggesting.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Lol, here's a good one for you. He put a bunch of stuff on our shared google calendar today, stuff he knows I can see or he is just too dumb to remember That I get alerts any time something is added. Today he added that he's looking at an apt. at noon tomorrow, then at 2 pm he put just a guys name & an address, it an attorney. He's in the same building as mine, different firm, so I recognized the address right away. There is no reason to put that sh!t on the shared calendar unless he's trying to get a response from me.


----------



## farsidejunky

hurtinginohio said:


> Lol, here's a good one for you. He put a bunch of stuff on our shared google calendar today, stuff he knows I can see or he is just too dumb to remember That I get alerts any time something is added. Today he added that he's looking at an apt. at noon tomorrow, then at 2 pm he put just a guys name & an address, it an attorney. He's in the same building as mine, different firm, so I recognized the address right away. There is no reason to put that sh!t on the shared calendar unless he's trying to get a response from me.


Rofl! What a pathetic attempt at saber rattling!


----------



## SamuraiJack

hurtinginohio said:


> Lol, here's a good one for you. He put a bunch of stuff on our shared google calendar today, stuff he knows I can see or he is just too dumb to remember That I get alerts any time something is added. Today he added that he's looking at an apt. at noon tomorrow, then at 2 pm he put just a guys name & an address, it an attorney. He's in the same building as mine, different firm, so I recognized the address right away. There is no reason to put that sh!t on the shared calendar unless he's trying to get a response from me.


Steady as she goes.
You can do this. 

Do NOT bite on that hook. 
He will keep escalating things to get a rise out of you.

You must be Teflon right now.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Hahaha, he is so pathetic. Imagine his surprise when he finds you unflappable. He probably is trying to play mind games, but you simply just don't play, and it makes him look like a fool. When he wants a response from you, you simply disengage. Just keep doing your own thing.


----------



## Q tip

Consider final text to OWH, that you're sorry, you'll respect his wishes and maybe (confidentially) give him the URL to your thread here on TAM and you are available any time should he chose to contact you in the future via an email address. 

Still, I wonder if it was the OW typing away on his Phone...


----------



## SadSamIAm

I think you should add a 'bikini wax' appointment to the shared calendar.


----------



## Working1

hurtinginohio said:


> Lol, here's a good one for you. He put a bunch of stuff on our shared google calendar today, stuff he knows I can see or he is just too dumb to remember That I get alerts any time something is added. Today he added that he's looking at an apt. at noon tomorrow, then at 2 pm he put just a guys name & an address, it an attorney. He's in the same building as mine, different firm, so I recognized the address right away. There is no reason to put that sh!t on the shared calendar unless he's trying to get a response from me.


He is at the next point now where he is engaging with you. 

You can think about which way you want the trajectory to go. 

Do you want to be amicable for divorce that you are sure you want?
Then stay friendly but not familiar. He may agree too this as you said, in the case he wants to move things along quickly and he thinks he can get you to agree to what he wants. 


Do you want him to ask you to forgive him and work on the marriage? 
Then don't be too friendly and don't be familiar at all. The farthest I would go is to say that all of this has woken something up in you and you want to have the same sort of experience he has had, that you can see how having a new relationship has revived his life and how you want to try and experience that too! This would be the time to throw him off a bit so he starts thinking about you more and the OW less. Only way to do that is to cause him to think he reds to work hard at getting you back.

Do you want a separation for a period of time to think about what you want to do? 
This might keep him on his toes. Then be friendly, and a bit familiar and let him know you are looking at your options.


----------



## jld

SadSamIAm said:


> I think you should add a 'bikini wax' appointment to the shared calendar.


:lol:


----------



## farsidejunky

SadSamIAm said:


> I think you should add a 'bikini wax' appointment to the shared calendar.


That is a freaking awesome idea. Emotional terrorism works both ways...


----------



## hurtinginohio

Q tip said:


> Consider final text to OWH, that you're sorry, you'll respect his wishes and maybe (confidentially) give him the URL to your thread here on TAM and you are available any time should he chose to contact you in the future via an email address.
> 
> Still, I wonder if it was the OW typing away on his Phone...


I did reply one last time when he said that, I just said I'm sorry for what he's going through, that my family is also devastated.

I don't think it was her, because it was Monday, during the work day. She's a school secretary, not sure what he does but I wouldn't think she'd have had his phone then.


----------



## hurtinginohio

SadSamIAm said:


> I think you should add a 'bikini wax' appointment to the shared calendar.


Thanks for making me LOL at work!! :smthumbup:


----------



## hurtinginohio

yeah_right said:


> And it may also confirm that OW was not as invested in the "relationship" as WH was. Either way, if WH clears the fog and wants to R, it's no longer up to him. The choice belongs to HIO and she should not feel any pressure.
> 
> Until we know what WH's intentions are (and he probably doesn't know himself), HIO needs to maintain the 180 for her sanity. WH is trying to engage her in conversations. Yes, no answers for home and financial questions should be the norm. No larger discussions unless it concerns the health of DD.
> 
> No matter what happens, WH still needs to see his DD. But it should be on a set schedule. He can choose one evening a week, time on the weekend and HIO can explain that a more formal visitation schedule will be set during the divorce (that should irk him).
> 
> He does not get to come home on Christmas!!!!! DD does not deserve that tension. She needs to have her special day and it needs to be with the parent who did not abandon her.


Both the mc & my attorney recommended that he be there for Christmas, so as sucky as it may be for me, I'll allow it. But yes, we do need to come to some agreement of when he can come see her, not just as it suits him.


----------



## Affaircare

hurtinginohio said:


> Both the mc & my attorney recommended that he be there for Christmas, so as sucky as it may be for me, I'll allow it.


You know how we all have that one crazy relative who drinks too much at all the family gatherings and ends up yelling or creating a fuss? And none of us really "like" that relative but we sort of tolerate him or her to keep the family gatherings civil? That's how you can envision your husband right now--the drunk, crazy relative that you "tolerate" but don't really like. 



> But yes, we do need to come to some agreement of when he can come see her, *not just as it suits him*.


The part that I bolded is EXTREMELY important, and here's why. Up to now, his experience has been that he can come and go as he pleases and Dear Little Wifey will be there to care for his child while he gallivants around. In real life, HE is a FATHER and is just as equally responsible for his daughter as you are. Since he has decided to choose another woman over you, it is reasonable for him to experience the natural consequence of that choice--that he is no longer able to have Dear Little Wifey babysit while he's out on the town! 

I'll give you an example. Right now, this moment, he is responsible for finding and providing care for half of your DD's time. So let's pretend and say you two agree to Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday HE would figure out how to care for her, Thursday-Friday-Saturday YOU would figure out how to care for her, and each Sunday you guys switch back and forth (one HIS, next one YOURS). Well guess what? Now he can't gallivant with the OW on M-T-W or every other Sunday! Now if he does want to gallivant, he has to pay a sitter! Now he has to figure out how to spend time with her on those 3 or 4 days. Now HE chose to remove you from his life and HE is responsible for his daughter!!

And HIO, this is not an attempt to give your DD to him or to take her away from you...or even to say that he should have custody and you shouldn't. But rather right now his mindset is "I can run around whenever I want and HIO will be there to provide care for DD, and if/when I have any spare time after I've run around, I can pop in and convince myself I'm still a good father." That's not reality. In reality, he fired you from the job of being his wife, and thus he is NOT FREE to just run around whenever he wants. And the sooner some reality begins to penetrate that affair, the sooner it will blow up! It's harder to be Mr. Romantic and have a secret rendezvous when the OW wants it if he has to make DD dinner, help her with homework, get her to bed, get her up in the morning, get her to school, and take care of her BY HIMSELF. And OW will start to get pissed because it's no longer all about her. Reality is breaking up the fantasy. 

Make sense? You need to come up with a schedule that does not change, gives your daughter some dependability, and also makes him shoulder at least some of the responsibility. I'd suggest starting with at least every other weekend and one day and night a week.


----------



## hurtinginohio

OMG, puke, his mother posted this on FB and he liked it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I love you AC

HIO, stop torturing yourself  I would remove my ability to see his mothers page and for her to see mine.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I just hid her page. But seriously, the dude is 40 and she is so freaking passive aggressive.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> I just hid her page. But seriously, the dude is 40 and she is so freaking passive aggressive.


I know... nails on a chalkboard


----------



## Q tip

farsidejunky said:


> That is a freaking awesome idea. Emotional terrorism works both ways...


And maybe breast augmentation...


----------



## alte Dame

One of the phenomena I see here often is that the trauma of infidelity takes on a life of its own. The BS is behind the curve because he/she is forced to discover the betrayal and the WS has all of the info. The WS is far ahead in terms of wrapping his/her mind around the idea that there are cataclysmic changes coming.

If the BS busts the affair, all of the mental energy can be taken up by this. It can be like an adrenaline-driven spy thriller. And during this, the BS doesn't have the time to really begin processing the betrayal. The feelings at the time are usually that the BS wants nothing more than for the WS to admit error and come begging back. All sorts of emotions go into this - pride, love, a sense of loss and waste.

But once the dust of exposure settles, you need to recenter, in my opinion, and ask yourself what you really can live with now. Given what he has done, including his twisted self-righteousness regarding your outing him to the OWH, could you ever really return to the marriage?

I would start to seriously and calmly give real consideration to this. Is your desire for your family to be restored a realistic desire? Could you really live with that? Or has the damage been too great? Has he become a different person in your eyes?

If you can begin to work through this thought process, it could truly inform your behavior from here on. It could also give you some resolve and peace of mind.

You just might be able to be firm in your decision to move on. You might start to feel not just like you are being forced into it, but that it is the inevitable and correct path for you.


----------



## 3putt

hurtinginohio said:


> OMG, puke, his mother posted this on FB and he liked it.


Right there is about half that guy's problem. Nothing but a Momma's Boy.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Amplexor said:


> Yup. Reading that made me want to puke up a rainbow.


I rolled my eyes so hard they almost fell out.


----------



## badmemory

hurtinginohio said:


> OMG, puke, his mother posted this on FB and he liked it.


I've had that emotional reaction you're having to that FB post, many times in my life - and again now. (I always figured it was because I'm a cynical [email protected]). But I don't know what to call it. I don't think the English language has a word for it.

It's some combination of nauseating, pathetic, disgusting, and humorous.


----------



## SadSamIAm

hurtinginohio said:


> OMG, puke, his mother posted this on FB and he liked it.


You should post a comment, "Notice how the poster says 'Little Boy'? There is only one way your son still qualifies for that!"


----------



## badmemory

SadSamIAm said:


> You should post a comment, "Notice how the poster says 'Little Boy'? There is only one way your son still qualifies for that!"


Ouch!:smthumbup:


----------



## Q tip

That family has issues. Good riddance is my thought.


----------



## dignityhonorpride

Q tip said:


> Consider final text to OWH, that you're sorry, you'll respect his wishes and maybe (confidentially) give him the URL to your thread here on TAM and you are available any time should he chose to contact you in the future via an email address.
> 
> Still, I wonder if it was the OW typing away on his Phone...


I really, really wouldn't do this. Your thread could all too easily get in to the Ow's hands from the OWH, and the OW could pass it on to your WH.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Q tip

dignityhonorpride said:


> I really, really wouldn't do this. Your thread could all too easily get in to the Ow's hands from the OWH, and the OW could pass it on to your WH.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Options.. Post the guilty parties to Cheaterville.com


----------



## hurtinginohio

We'll he came over last night, picked up DD & took her to Game Stop to get a new xbox game. They came back here & played video games until about 8:30 when he left. A few minutes later he texts me that there was an accident & traffic was stopped. Ok, not sure what that has to do with me and/or DD. Then, this morning I get another text telling me to be careful going to work, the roads are a mess. Thank goodness, because I have no news source without him! 

But yes, this is all so confusing. I know he still follows the ho on Instagram so there is definitely still contact. So, my thought is someone, attorney or whoever, told him to play nice with me & to make an effort to come over and see DD.

Thank you all for being here with me through this f'ed up journey I'm on.


----------



## farsidejunky

He's fishing to see if he's able to make you a plan B. Continue the 180.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Update: So I got a notification that the meeting at the apartment complex for today was deleted off calendar. But, the attorney appt. at 2 PM is still there.

About 30 min. ago I get a text to see if DD & I want the tickets to a basketball game on the 26th. (he plans on heading to his parents on the 26th - new years). I replied, Not sure what our plans are so give them to someone else. 

Ugh! ALL contact has been initiated by him but I'm so sick of the emotional ups and downs!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hmmm... interesting...

how are you feeling?


----------



## Squeakr

Just stop responding and he will get the idea, as long as you are still engaging then he sees interest and feels secure in what he is doing.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Blossom Leigh said:


> hmmm... interesting...
> 
> how are you feeling?


Like crap.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Like crap.


Well, that's about as honest as you can get. Almost sounds like you need a break from him. Can you carve out some time for yourself?


----------



## Squeakr

You could also respond that you "have nothing to discuss unless it is in regard to the welfare of your daughter, otherwise I request that you stop contacting me or filter everything through the lawyers!" This request then allows you to get a RO for harassment and possible stalking if he doesn't care to honor your request and it becomes too annoying (I recommend the RO only as a last resort).


----------



## hurtinginohio

Blossom Leigh said:


> Well, that's about as honest as you can get. Almost sounds like you need a break from him. Can you carve out some time for yourself?


I do need a break. It would be easier if he were just a **** all the time. I know I need to hold on to my anger right now and remember that he DID plan to go meet her in a hotel room and that they ARE obviously still in contact. I am sooooo not even in the mood for Christmas.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

If you have not done so already, start investing your time and energy elsewhere. Circulate a resume out there for a better job opportunity. Do work out at the gym, get a hobby, and you will find new friends doing it. This is still in the early stages for you, and you need to distract yourself and do something that makes you happy like the marathon. First, this keeps you distracted. Second, you will be forming new attachments and your attachment to him will fade. Third, this will start separating your identity from you as a couple, and form the separate identity as you. Forth, this will bring you some happiness, and you will accept the fact faster that you can be happy without him. A part of you may be in denial and do not want to let him go. Think about it this way, your retraining yourself to be an individual, and be happy that way.

Also, you are going through a withdrawal of sorts. In the past, your brain found his love rewarding, and it is going through withdrawal where you think you need him. You have to keep reminding yourself of the person he is now. Keep visualizing him as your ex. The moer memories you create as an individual, the more you create a new you.


----------



## alte Dame

Rewiring your brain for a new life after something outside of your control has happened to suddenly force a change is very painful. It's like having someone you love die suddenly and change the whole calculus of your life.

As everybody says, it will take some time for your heart and head to catch up with the new reality that your WH has thrust upon you.

I was facing a bad health diagnosis when I was younger, one that had the potential to completely change my life. It occupied every waking moment and all of my dreams, it seemed. At one point I just needed to give myself a break from obsessing over it. I didn't really know how, but eventually settled on an almost minute-by-minute scheduling of my day. I tried to force myself to focus on the activities of the day, in small increments.

This helped to get through this period, although it was by no means a quick cure. Nothing cures this. It's just an unhappy process. This forced focusing got me through some tough days, however, & I have used the strategy a number of times since then.

For me, it was 'take it hour by hour' rather than 'day by day.'


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Another thing, the more goals you achieve and the more you focus on self-improvement, the more confidence you will build up. Just create small goals and large ones. The small goals will help chip away at the bigger ones. I use meditation to get outside my head, and inside my head. When I use it to get outside my own head, I lose focus of all thoughts, and concentrate on the external world. When I use it to get inside my head, it allows me to be introspective, and I start reorganizing my thoughts, and focus on only one thing at a time. I break it down and analyze it to gain better insight.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well I've heard nothing from him since his 2pm appt with an attorney. Weird because he was texting, emailing, FB messaging up til then, wonder what he was told. Anyway, I went out for a burger & a couple beers with a friend tonight, was nice to get out even though I'm back home early. Hoping for a calm weekend.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

He was probably advised to stop contacting you, unless it is about the kids. What he posts on fb or messages he sends, can be used against him, if it seems like harassment. Perhaps the divorce will be smooth sailing. Just stay vigilant, and just keep on going. Just remember that life does not go on hold while we figure things out. You should check out meditation. It can help reorganize your thoughts and keep you focused. View your memories, thoughts, and ideas in a detach kind of way. Break down the info, and analyze. Also meditation can help focus our thoughts, and can be used to get outside of our own head for a reprieve.


----------



## jin

If HIO wants to reconcile what is the next step? When should she respond? (i apologise if you don't want to HIO just want to make sense of all this)


----------



## Working1

Mr.Fisty said:


> He was probably advised to stop contacting you, unless it is about the kids. What he posts on fb or messages he sends, can be used against him, if it seems like harassment. Perhaps the divorce will be smooth sailing. Just stay vigilant, and just keep on going. Just remember that life does not go on hold while we figure things out. You should check out meditation. It can help reorganize your thoughts and keep you focused. View your memories, thoughts, and ideas in a detach kind of way. Break down the info, and analyze. Also meditation can help focus our thoughts, and can be used to get outside of our own head for a reprieve.


Either that or the OW is possibly responding favorably to him again. As long as she meets his needs, makes him feel high on life, than he isn't going to engage with his wife.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Just posting because it's a lonely Saturday night. DD has a friend over & they made gingerbread houses, but I'm still not used to not having adult companionship. He is hanging out with his 26 year old roomie, so he hasn't even had the chance to be "alone" like he claims he wants to be. I know I need to stop obsessing over what he's doing & thinking. I went to yoga this morning & it helped a little but I had a hard time concentrating & keeping my mind from thinking about him. 

He texted this morning to see if DD had dance, I said yes. He asked if he should pick her up so I could go to yoga (the times overlap & I haven't gone the past few weeks since he hasn't been here to pick her up). I said sure, so he did that, took her out for a late breakfast, brought her home but left before I got back from yoga so I didn't have to see him at least. 

Tomorrow evening is the Xmas get together with my siblings & their families, it will be so hard & weird to be there without him.


----------



## jld

Do they all know? I hope they've been supportive.


----------



## hurtinginohio

They know and they are, but bro & sil live in Colorado, and my sister has a son with cf who hasn't been well. So, it's not like my issues are top priority, which is ok.


----------



## farsidejunky

Perspective is always healthy. Try to find a comedy on tv. South Park reruns normally work for me..


----------



## hurtinginohio

Quick I need help from those much wiser & experienced than me. H wants to come over to the house today to hang out with DD and our 2 year old grandson he hasn't seen in a month. He said maybe watch the football game. Ugh, this is totally cake eating right? He wants out, but wants to still have that familiar family time. Of course I'm torn because I do still love the bas!ard, but on the other hand for my own sanity I need distance.

He's not here to see the effects his coming and going has on DD, she cried herself to sleep again last night. All he sees is how she is when he's around so of course he assumes she is adjusting to things. She's not!


----------



## farsidejunky

If you don't want to, then simple. 

Figure out what you can accept as far as him seeing your daughter and her son. Then tell him:

"I am not okay with you hanging out here like everything is somehow normal. You can see them (insert alternate acceptable plan here)."

Or better yet, it is your daughters son. Does she want him to see them? I thought she was mad at him?

Don't make the plan for him, but especially if this is by text, you don't want to give the appearance of denying him family to be used against you later.


----------



## hurtinginohio

It is our DD11 and my older daughters son that he wants to come see. Yes I've been careful not to deny family time or anything that he could use against me.

Just having him here while I'm sure he will be on the phone with OW the minute he leaves our house just makes me sick.


----------



## farsidejunky

I know. I wish there was quick solution. But I would not allow him to hang around the house. You need to set a schedule with him. That way when he pulls this crap you can simply tell him no.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Get dd into counseling. Set up a schedule like farside said. Or drop the kids into a neutral area where he can spend time with them. Ask him to take the kids to where he is staying, or make plans for yourself when he is there. This is why you need to expand your social circle. Find people who went through a similar situation. They will be your cheerleader, and you will form a bond with that person due to similar circumstances. Tell him you both need a schedule, so you can have plans of your own. He can be there while your with friends, family, or doing some charity work. Have you looked into improving your job prospect? Find ways to improve your lifestyle so you are more independent.


----------



## thenub

Maybe text him back and tell him you can drop dd11 off at his place for a few hours. Tell him that they'll both have to start getting used to the idea.


----------



## Openminded

He obviously has the legal right to see your daughter. He has no right to see your grandson unless you agree. And he shouldn't be hanging around your house watching television under any circumstances. 

Tell him to take your daughter somewhere and spend time with her. He needs to get used to what life will be like going forward if the divorce goes through (I personally think he will backpedal on that if the OW remains in her marriage).


----------



## hurtinginohio

thenub said:


> Maybe text him back and tell him you can drop dd11 off at his place for a few hours. Tell him that they'll both have to start getting used to the idea.


He is sleeping on a futon at a 26 year old guys apartment, I do not want my daughter there! Plus, it is 30 minutes away and I'll be damned if I waste my gas & time driving there and back. 

Thanks everyone, I agree, he has no business hanging out at the house acting like we are a happy family when clearly we are not. He is the one who pushed to end this marriage, he needs to get a taste of what being a single dad is really like.


----------



## Openminded

He can pick her up and take her to the mall for hot chocolate. Or take her shopping. Anything but hanging out at your house making you uncomfortable. 

Reality is much different when all the unicorns and butterflies and rainbows are gone. He'll discover that soon.


----------



## jld

Openminded said:


> He obviously has the legal right to see your daughter.* He has no right to see your grandson unless you agree.* And he shouldn't be hanging around your house watching television under any circumstances.
> 
> Tell him to take your daughter somewhere and spend time with her. He needs to get used to what life will be like going forward if the divorce goes through (I personally think he will backpedal on that if the OW remains in her marriage).


Well, unless the grandson's parents agree. OP is not in charge on that one.

Just saw your last response. I don't blame you for not wanting your daughter at the apartment he is sharing with that young man. And yet, now, that is really pretty much not your decision. 

Letting him visit with her at your house offers a healthier environment, I guess. You will have to weigh that one, OP.


----------



## Abc123wife

hurtinginohio said:


> Quick I need help from those much wiser & experienced than me. H wants to come over to the house today to hang out with DD and our 2 year old grandson he hasn't seen in a month. He said maybe watch the football game. Ugh, this is totally cake eating right? He wants out, but wants to still have that familiar family time. Of course I'm torn because I do still love the bas!ard, but on the other hand for my own sanity I need distance.
> 
> He's not here to see the effects his coming and going has on DD, she cried herself to sleep again last night. All he sees is how she is when he's around so of course he assumes she is adjusting to things. She's not!


How about responding with something like the following: "I think it is very important for you to see DD11 and set forth a new routine of seeing her as you move forward with divorce and life as a single dad. I do not want to discourage that at all. But please keep in mind that while you had a few months thinking about leaving while developing your friendship and love for another, this separation and divorce came as a shock to us. We are going through an important and unavoidable difficult stage of acceptance and adjustment. With that in mind, it is very difficult to have you dropping in and acting like all is normal. It sets us back each time from moving forward in the acceptance of the 2 households/2 separate parents situation. The effects of your coming and going from the house are dramatic to DD11 and she goes through a trauma each time you leave. So may I make a suggestion that hopefully will keep my and her adjustment to this new life moving forward in a positive manner as you wanted? How about you pick her up each time you would like to see her and take her out shopping, movie, dinner, or whatever activity you and she would enjoy together and then drop her back off afterwards? I think that avoids DD11 from getting her hopes up for a sudden change of your plans for divorce that occurs each time she experiences you being in our home acting like everything has returned to before you decided to leave. Concerning seeing GS2, feel free to contact my DD26 and make those arrangements with her."

How can he argue with what is best for your young daughter?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

This should give you an incentive to push the divorce through faster. It will force him to be a father instead of their buddy. Let him take on the stress of being a parent too. Right now your children are convenient for him when he feels like being around, when he should be working around them so he can be a father.


----------



## alte Dame

I think that you have to try very hard to focus laser-like on your daughter's welfare right now.

I would let him come over, but tell him simply and clearly that the two of you must set up a visitation schedule. Tell him, again simply and clearly, exactly what his decision and coming and going are doing to his daughter. Focus completely on her in your discussion. Be direct and mature. Tell him that she needs counseling and a schedule she can rely on.

No sniping. No overtalking. 180 all the way.

(And....if he ever tries to make you defensive about your exposure, please, please stay one-note: 'That man had a right to know what YOU, a complete stranger, were doing to HIS life.)


----------



## ButtPunch

Let him get your daughter. You cannot control where he takes her. That is all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Affaircare

hurtinginohio said:


> It is our DD11 and my older daughters son that he wants to come see. Yes I've been careful not to deny family time or anything that he could use against me.
> 
> Just having him here while I'm sure he will be on the phone with OW the minute he leaves our house just makes me sick.


Hurting, 

Here is a quick and easy way you can work this out. Memorize this phrase: "Oh are you ready to end all contact with the OW and give me 100% of your affection and loyalty like you promised in our wedding vows? You're not? Fine, call me when you are." CLICK (dial-tone)

Then every time he calls you or texts your or attempts to contact you for no apparent reason, just repeat that phrase over and over and over and over...

If he ever says he IS ready to end all contact, then come talk to us here at TAM and we'll walk you through that. Most likely he won't say he wants to end his affair, and I'll proceed on that basis for right now, okay?

As long as he is committing adultery and tearing his family apart, he has "fired you" from the job of being his wife. That means you don't make his life easier or make him feel better--he fired you! So instead, sooner rather than later, propose to him a schedule and write it down. Even if you two can not afford an attorney and don't file right now, just write it like this: 

We, as two adults of sound mind, who are not lawyers and have not had lawyers review this, agree to the following temporary visitation schedule: 

DD sleeps at ______ house. _____ can visit DD Monday-Wednesday-Friday from 5pm to 9pm and put her to bed. Weekends are alternated between the parents. Each parent gets her on their birthday. Mom gets DD on Mothers Day; Dad on Fathers Day. Holidays are arranged by mutual agreement by both parents one week in advance or more. 


The end. WRITE IT DOWN. Then just sign it and it's not utterly legally binding but it is an agreement that it written down and clear that you had an understanding...an arrangement. 

THEN he can not drift in and out of your life, and every time he contacts you, say the phrase--you make it CLEAR that if he wants to have anything to do with you, it's 100% to you or NOTHING!!


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thank you all, yesterday/last night was a real emotional low point for me. I spent time with my brother & sister which was great, but it also made some feelings of abandonment resurface. They are my biological siblings and our mother walked out on us when we were very young, I was a year old (the youngest). We were then sent to live with different family members and eventually adopted by 3 different families and lost contact until we were adults. H knows all this and knows how I've struggled with feeling abandoned and I never thought in a million years he would do it too.

He did come over for a while yesterday and when DD was out of the room I tried to talk to him about how she was taking all of this because he doesn't see the fallout after he leaves. He of course got defensive and ended up leaving, seems to be his new MO, leave when things get uncomfortable. I'm kicking myself for even engaging with him.

But, I did send him an email later stating that we cannot be friends, he cannot come hang out at the house anymore. If he wants to be a single man, that's what he needs to do, no more coming over. I told him Christmas eve together was not a good idea, that DD and I needed to start our own traditions that did not involve him. I said he was welcome to come over Christmas day for a few hours. He is heading to his parents on the 26th and staying until after New years. Anyway, sending that email made me feel a little more in control of the situation and I know that I need to move forward, R is out of the equation for sure now. He did not reply to my email, but I wasn't expecting him to.


----------



## karole

So Sorry HIO. Do what you think is best for you and your daughter. You will get through this! I'm sorry for what you are going through, but once the fungus is out of your life, you will heal and have an even better life.


----------



## SamuraiJack

hurtinginohio said:


> Thank you all, yesterday/last night was a real emotional low point for me. I spent time with my brother & sister which was great, but it also made some feelings of abandonment resurface. They are my biological siblings and our mother walked out on us when we were very young, I was a year old (the youngest). We were then sent to live with different family members and eventually adopted by 3 different families and lost contact until we were adults. H knows all this and knows how I've struggled with feeling abandoned and I never thought in a million years he would do it too.


He is deep in his own rationalizations. In his mind, you have already gone through this so "why should the past effect you?"

Remeber he is processing information through the haze of new chemicals in his head. He might as well be hammered for all the indentification with your feelings he is capable of.

Right now he is thinking of nobody but HIMSELF.
He is "Walking Disney" and the whole world is rainbows and puppy dogs and Unicorns that fart glitter and pee lemonade. 

The reason he gets miffed with you is that you are a reminder that he had to trash someone elses life to get this new world.
Anyone with a lick of conscience would have a very hard time with this.

Stand your ground.
Keep your boundaries very firm.
No wavering.

You've got this.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Your probably not the only one feeling abandoned. Your daughters are probably feeling the same way, and you have to realize that you still have each other. You have to focus on what you still have. Your going to have to be strong for your daughter and help them transition into this new reality. Just remember, you still have people that care about you, and you are not alone. He does not make up your entire world, and you still have the love of your daughters, family and some friends.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Mr.Fisty said:


> Your probably not the only one feeling abandoned. Your daughters are probably feeling the same way, and you have to realize that you still have each other. You have to focus on what you still have. Your going to have to be strong for your daughter and help them transition into this new reality. Just remember, you still have people that care about you, and you are not alone. He does not make up your entire world, and you still have the love of your daughters, family and some friends.


O they absolutely feel abandoned, the older two for the 2nd time as well! What he isn't realizing is that this is just forming an even stronger bond between all the girls and myself, one he will no longer be part of.

The D-bag texted me a few hours ago that he is stopping by the house and will leave DD's new phone in the garage for me to wrap...so that it will match all the other gifts that I'm wrapping for her. Seriously.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ummm and you told him to get it wrapped himself right?


----------



## hurtinginohio

Blossom Leigh said:


> ummm and you told him to get it wrapped himself right?


I said throw it in a gift bag.


----------



## SamuraiJack

hurtinginohio said:


> I said throw it in a gift bag.


Gently now.

He is swinging wildly and you are stepping into his radius.

Your answer should be :

Him: Dropping off the phone for DD. You can blah blah blah...
You: Thank you.

No comebacks, remarks or counter suggestions.
Just acknowledge it because it is about your children.

Then step back out.

The hardest target to hit is one that isnt there.
Present him with as few opportunities to hit you as possible.
The less time you spend on him, the more control you will gain.
The more control you gain, the easier it becomes.

Just remember that when you start this process, they will often up the ante in an attempt to tweak you. 
Stand fast and he will eventually taper off.
Promise.


----------



## hurtinginohio

How do you people get so wise?  I just keep making the same mistakes one after another, maybe one day I'll learn.


----------



## SamuraiJack

hurtinginohio said:


> How do you people get so wise?  I just keep making the same mistakes one after another, maybe one day I'll learn.


We have been through it.
We are survivors.

You can be too, but you need to start practicing.
Sending him and his parents that link is pretty much saying "Go ahead, mess up my face."

Say it with me "If I am not there he cannot touch me, trigger me, or get under my skin."


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I have become practiced in not letting them trigger me when they are around. All of its a process.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Your game plan is to fake indifference until you feel it. Avoid the drama circle by not being in the game. Eventually you will get sick and tired of verbally sparring with him, and you learn it is not worth it, because you can't change their mind. They are walled off to you, so what is the point.


----------



## alte Dame

You are grieving and it's a process.

Humans experience all sorts of love. Romantic love isn't unconditional love. It's not like how we feel about our children.

This means that he thinks he is over you and so it's easy to walk away from you, but not from his children.

For you, this means right now that you are not ready to walk away from him, but you will get there. You will reach a point where you will stop loving him and stop hurting from that love. Your love for him isn't unconditional. The condition for your moving out of the love state is his betrayal.

As everyone here says, you will get there. People show up here all the time a year after Dday and report on the vast improvement in their lives. You will be one of those people, I have no doubt. Just look how smart and together you are. A year from now you will have children who love and respect you and he will have children who love him because he's their father, but don't really respect him.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Let me elaborate on one of my classic achilles heels.
In the beginning I was much like you.
I just wanted to make sure she knew how much damage she was doing.
It was what I call my "Self Righteous Mode".
...and it was the thing that caused most of the unneeded fights in the beginning. SRM only works on people who feel guilt. 
Its very hard to feel guilt when your hormones are helping you hide it and you are getting brand new loving.
Remember that crazy high you had when you fell in love?
Thats what his body is doing to him right now...it's made even more intense by the fact that it's illicit.

No matter what you throw at him right now, he is NEVER going to wake up and realize the pain he is causing.

All it's going to do is remind him of a nagging feeling in the back of his head that he is doing something wrong.
Then he will leave...again.
(Run Forrest! Run!)

Take it from someone who did a LOT of wrong things in the beginning...NOTHING you say will penetrate those shields he has up.

I'm sorry you are here.
I have been here too.
It sucks to see the dream that was "Us" slaughtered and burned before your very eyes...and there is nothing you can do about it.
You will NEVER look at him the same way again...ever.

The sooner you accept this, the sooner your power in this will return.
Above all else, protect your children and love on them as much as you can. 
Show them how to be strong.
Show them how to hold strong and not turn into an Ice Queen.

You have already shown you have the ability to do this...you just need to practice.

I promise you that a year from now you wont even believe how strong you actually are. You will look back on days like this and say "I never knew I could be that strong. Once I got my bearings, set my boundaries and stopped buying into his crap, things really started to turn around for me."

I have a saying I use with my kids: 
"Don't despair what you aren't.
Discover what you are."

Maybe you cant see it now, but you are going to be alright. 
Promise.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thank you for that, I will need to keep reading that over and over, very good advice.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Your frustrated because he does not understand what you and your daughters are going through. You want him to understand that frustration. After all, don't we all want to be understood. You want him to acknowledge all the pain and suffering he is causing, but he is too blind to see the affects of his actions. That is why you get drawn into arguments and these little passive-aggressive actions, you are trying to communicate your feelings.


----------



## hurtinginohio

> It sucks to see the dream that was "Us" slaughtered and burned before your very eyes...and there is nothing you can do about it.


I think this is what's hardest for me to deal with. Someone else making a choice that will impact the rest of my life that I have no control over right now. 

I will make it though!


----------



## hurtinginohio

Mr.Fisty said:


> Your frustrated because he does not understand what you and your daughters are going through. You want him to understand that frustration. After all, don't we all want to be understood. You want him to acknowledge all the pain and suffering he is causing, but he is too blind to see the affects of his actions. That is why you get drawn into arguments and these little passive-aggressive actions, you are trying to communicate your feelings.


Exactly! I need to learn to keep my mouth shut! Ugh!


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> Exactly! I need to learn to keep my mouth shut! Ugh!


It is the hardest thing to do. Once you remove yourself from the situation it becomes easier. I just filtered everything through my lawyer. That is ALL communications, and I communicated with my kids directly so they knew they could contact me at any time for anything. I stopped responding to texts, emails, and phone calls and it has made my life better in the interim. She has finally stopped "badgering" me, but I can tell you it is really no "better" just in that fact that I don't have to respond to it directly. She still spins here stories and lies and has swayed just about anyone that will listen about the truth. It is what it is, but hopefully she will crash at some point and all will "catch up" but I (and you) just have to realize that it is nothing we can control and should just disconnect from.

Sometimes the most powerful words are the ones that aren't spoken!


----------



## Openminded

hurtinginohio said:


> I think this is what's hardest for me to deal with. Someone else making a choice that will impact the rest of my life that I have no control over right now.
> 
> I will make it though!


It's hard to grasp that the one person we felt had our back really didn't. And that person can make choices that end life as we know it and there's nothing we can do. 

When I said "I do" 47 years ago (my former anniversary is this evening) I never dreamed that handsome boy I was marrying was capable of the things he has done. I never thought he would rip our lives apart. But he did. And I survived and I'm happy now and at peace. You will be too. I promise.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Openminded said:


> It's hard to grasp that the one person we felt had our back really didn't. And that person can make choices that end life as we know it and there's nothing we can do.
> 
> When I said "I do" 47 years ago (my former anniversary is this evening) I never dreamed that handsome boy I was marrying was capable of the things he has done. I never thought he would rip our lives apart. But he did. And I survived and I'm happy now and at peace. You will be too. I promise.


Thank you for giving me hope, I know in my brain I'll be ok, it's just hard for my heart to feel it right now.

I'm so sorry you had to go through it too.


----------



## farsidejunky

iwontliedown said:


> You are still not telling us the whole story I think...
> 
> Because its statistically shown that even in cases of physical cheating by men, they hardly leave their families...
> 
> Men leave their families only when they have something concrete to go to....
> 
> But here you are describing your husband leaving you for a six week affair which was nothing more than fantasy talk with some woman on phone. Nothing concrete. Its hard to believe that a man who was "seemingly happy" in the marriage would jeopardize his entire lifestyle, that too at the age of 40, for something standing on the clouds.
> 
> There should have been signs before that either you did not notice or didn't care to. Because he looked happy.
> 
> You are constantly projecting him as some evil person who does not give a f*** neither about you not about his daughter. You are only talking about the affair aspect of the marriage and how is everyone enabling him.
> But you are carefully eliminating any mention of how your married life was before the affair, what roles and duties both of you had in the marriage and how you treated each other.
> 
> 
> Have you thought why everyone is supporting him? It can't only be because he is badmouthing you. Loyalty goes only this far. People aren't fool. Especially people who had the chance to see you regularly in your day to day lives.They always notice who is right and who is wrong. They know.
> 
> You are always saying your husband did this and that but clapping cannot be done with one hand.
> 
> He must have at one point felt "I can't take this anymore". Have you asked yourself these questions?
> 
> I am asking this only because your situation defies logic. A happy husband leaves his family for a six week affair which had not sex or face-to-face meeting but only phone calls and messages. Just out of the air....


?


----------



## SamuraiJack

iwontliedown said:


> You are still not telling us the whole story I think...
> 
> Because its statistically shown that even in cases of physical cheating by men, they hardly leave their families...
> 
> Men leave their families only when they have something concrete to go to....
> 
> But here you are describing your husband leaving you for a six week affair which was nothing more than fantasy talk with some woman on phone. Nothing concrete. Its hard to believe that a man who was "seemingly happy" in the marriage would jeopardize his entire lifestyle, that too at the age of 40, for something standing on the clouds.
> 
> There should have been signs before that either you did not notice or didn't care to. Because he looked happy.
> 
> You are constantly projecting him as some evil person who does not give a f*** neither about you not about his daughter. You are only talking about the affair aspect of the marriage and how is everyone enabling him.
> But you are carefully eliminating any mention of how your married life was before the affair, what roles and duties both of you had in the marriage and how you treated each other.
> 
> 
> Have you thought why everyone is supporting him? It can't only be because he is badmouthing you. Loyalty goes only this far. People aren't fool. Especially people who had the chance to see you regularly in your day to day lives.They always notice who is right and who is wrong. They know.
> 
> You are always saying your husband did this and that but clapping cannot be done with one hand.
> 
> He must have at one point felt "I can't take this anymore". Have you asked yourself these questions?
> 
> I am asking this only because your situation defies logic. A happy husband leaves his family for a six week affair which had not sex or face-to-face meeting but only phone calls and messages. Just out of the air....


Looks like somebody is trying to win the Internetz...


----------



## Nucking Futs

iwontliedown said:


> *I am asking this only because your situation defies logic.*


Well look at you trying to apply logic to an affair. As if a wayward sits down with a ledger sheet and says "this is good but this is bad and this is bad and this is bad. Yep, the bad outweighs the good, I'm going to cheat to balance things out."

Stop blame shifting.

_This post edited to remove most of the quote after a mod deleted the original post._


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Well, it is called an infatuation stage for a reason. I think an obsessive state would make someone irrational. If you did the research, this stage of the relationship is like being a drug addict. It inhibits the moral center of the brain, and that is how the person with the affair will rewrite history, and blame shift for the justification to satisfy that reward center of that new relationship. There have been people that have committed suicide while in the infatuation stage, because you do feel you can't live without that person. So it really is an irrational state. Some are just hit harder than others. If he were in his right mind, his daughters would be more of a priority in his life, but he did disappear for a while. How many drug addicts you know act rationally when they are high?


----------



## ButtPunch

> A happy husband leaves his family for a six week affair which had not sex or face-to-face meeting but only phone calls and messages. Just out of the air....




Welcome to TAM......Where this happens every day. Even happened to me.


----------



## Squeakr

iwontliedown said:


> I am not saying affairs don't occur in happy marriages. They can....
> 
> But when people come here to tell their stories, they give a summary of their situations both prior and after troubles started till D-Day. And some of them confess to some of the things they did to contribute to the breakdown of marriage....
> 
> But this woman came to the forum and she was like " My husband is in an affair and has left me. I am trying to be the higher person but my husband is doing this and that...."
> 
> Its like her story had no background before D-Day. It looks like her marriage started on D-Day.
> 
> But we all know no two people meet on D-Day. They meet much earlier than that, even maybe a day before (yes that can happen. one of my friend in school met a girl and the next day he found out that girl was also seeing another boy)....
> 
> Her story is like "there was nothing in the beginning but then BIG BANG occurred. Lo and behold, we have stars and planets"...
> 
> 
> Thats why I said she is not telling us the whole truth. All I can see is for 62 pages, she is trashing her husband and people are joining in that.....


Not sure what you are reading as very few are trashing her WH, but giving her the script that he will follow, and he has.

So you are saying that she is responsible for his A? As that is how I am reading it. Since she hasn't said anything was wrong in her marriage, it couldn't be possible that he would become despondent, unhappy, and ready to move on to something/ someone new??

Sorry but this same thing happened to me. STBXW met old friends (and new friends) online and all of the sudden I wasn't good enough. She would tell me that I wasn't providing the things she needed, so she sought them in an AP and he WAS providing all she needed (funny that I pointed out she was doing the same thing to him that she did to me, and the other 3 men she was in an A with at the same time). So it took 4 men at the same time to replace me, and they still couldn't do it, then.

Sorry no stats, or logic are going to prove that her case isn't happening, and even if things were bad (or worse than she realized/ thought) prior to him leaving, doesn't change the way things are happening now, or make them acceptable. Stats are only a generalization, and in order to have them you have to have both highs and lows and outliers in that grouping of data.

Also, I can tell you that people will believe and support the ones that they love and are friends of, no matter how the other party is or appears (the best of us have been shot down due to the words of a spurned love one). I was not/ nor am I the monster that STBXW has painted me to be, but like all cheaters, she started to "build" her case so that she could garner support for her As after they came out (funny how she lied about it being 4 concurrent men or even having an A, if I was such an @ass then why not tell her friends the truth, because she didn't want to face the judgment from them) so that they would all look at me as the root of all evil and could easily blame me for the entire dealings. Like others have stated, the cheater will do what they can to obtain their high at any cost.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Did we have issues? Of course, who doesn't! Did I notice he was acting unhappy? Sort of at times, but he started a new job last year that was totally different from what he'd been doing for 15 years and he was struggling with it. He NEVER mentioned any unhappiness with our marriage until AFTER he had begun communicating with her. Then all of a sudden he was pointing out my flaws left and right, BUT without being willing to work on them. You cannot ambush someone like that and bring up every thing they've done throughout the years that upset you unless you're willing to commit to working on those issues. Those issues are all just things he's using to try to justify his actions. There is NEVER justification for cheating on your spouse, never.


----------



## SamuraiJack

iwontliedown said:


> And Mr.SamuraiJack, why don't you reply to my last post with a "Whatever. Go f*** yourself!"  .......


Sorry....I was looking for these "statistics" you were quoting...


----------



## farsidejunky

Sometimes the ban hammer sucks.

Other times...


----------



## SamuraiJack

farsidejunky said:


> Sometimes the ban hammer sucks.
> 
> Other times...


Looked to me, like that post was from directly under a bridge...


----------



## Openminded

hurtinginohio said:


> Thank you for giving me hope, I know in my brain I'll be ok, it's just hard for my heart to feel it right now.
> 
> I'm so sorry you had to go through it too.


Thanks. I appreciate that. 

It takes time for the brain to convince the heart to move on because the heart doesn't want to. It's a process. And part of that is mourning the marriage that was lost. There's nothing easy about this. It takes time and it's difficult. But you WILL get through it.


----------



## yeah_right

It seems I missed some nonsense this morning. HIO, obviously both members of a marriage contribute to its problems...only one member chooses to add an additional member.

You did nothing to cause the affair. But I think you know that. Hang in there. I know the next few days will be very hard. Please do your best to give an Oscar-worthy performance of the 180 when he visits your DD this week. You can do it!


----------



## thenub

HIO I truly hope you and your daughters have an enjoyable Christmas together. My heart goes out to you. You have shown strength and courage for your girls. God bless you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

Just wanted to pop in and say I just read your entire thread.

You are a brave and strong woman! I know it is hard, but you will make it through. Continue to stand your ground, and get him out of your life.

Personally I would not allow him to hang out at your house anymore. If he wants to spend time with your daughter he can pick her up and take her to a public place. (Mall, McDonalds, etc) But there is no reason for him to be sitting around with you for hours, torturing you and giving you conflicted feelings. 

I'll be thinking of you and praying for you! Your strength is an encouragement!


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well I'm not following him on FB anymore, but several friends forwarded this to me today, it is a post he made this morning. For what it's worth, he still has not deactivated his account. I cannot believe he posts this sh!t!! Really? Remember what is important in life? Aagghhhhhh what a giant d-bag!

"I’m wishing all my FB friends and family (an early) wonderful Christmas and Happy New Year. In observance of this, I will be deactivating FB for awhile. I hope all of you get to spend some special time with your families and friends and remember what is important in life.
“Surrender to what is. Say ‘yes’ to life—and see how life suddenly starts working for you rather than against you.”
Eckhart Tolle"


----------



## Squeakr

He was probably advised by his lawyer to cancel all social media, as it can be used against him possibly in custody issues, so he sees this as a way to graciously bow out of that arena without giving away the true reason (as many would wonder why out of the blue he just shut it down, but he has just given himself an out and that being the holiday).


----------



## farsidejunky

hurtinginohio said:


> Well I'm not following him on FB anymore, but several friends forwarded this to me today, it is a post he made this morning. For what it's worth, he still has not deactivated his account. I cannot believe he posts this sh!t!! Really? Remember what is important in life? Aagghhhhhh what a giant d-bag!
> 
> "I’m wishing all my FB friends and family (an early) wonderful Christmas and Happy New Year. In observance of this, I will be deactivating FB for awhile. I hope all of you get to spend some special time with your families and friends and remember what is important in life.
> “Surrender to what is. Say ‘yes’ to life—and see how life suddenly starts working for you rather than against you.”
> Eckhart Tolle"


Screw him and his meme's. What an arrogant turd.

HIO, you cannot detach fast enough from this man. You need to see yourself in a better light. There are good men out there, and you know you are worth it. 

Now detach, heal, and prove yourself right.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Squeakr said:


> He was probably advised by his lawyer to cancel all social media, as it can be used against him possibly in custody issues, so he sees this as a way to graciously bow out of that arena without giving away the true reason (as many would wonder why out of the blue he just shut it down, but he has just given himself an out and that being the holiday).


I don't think so, he left FB for about 2 weeks but was back on last week. I'm sure he's not shutting down his Instagram account because he's still following the OW on there.

And OMG, how pathetic to post quotes like that??


----------



## badmemory

It's obvious what he's doing. He's trying to justify his infidelity to his friends and family; framing it as "saying yes to life".

Yes, he most certainly is an arrogant cretin.

Use that as fuel for your resolve hurting.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> I don't think so, he left FB for about 2 weeks but was back on last week. I'm sure he's not shutting down his Instagram account because he's still following the OW on there.
> 
> And OMG, how pathetic to post quotes like that??


Yes, but did he just take a hiatus, or actually deactivate his account. This says he is deactivating. Which could be a recommendation from his lawyer. Mine and the STBXW's both recommended limiting posting and connections on FB and other social media as it can be tracked and cause issues in custody battles.


----------



## hurtinginohio

He deactivated it before too. I think he just wants the drama...


----------



## Squeakr

Amplexor said:


> If he wants martyrdom, tell him to strap on a vest


Oooh. 72 Virgins!!!!!!


----------



## Nucking Futs

Squeakr said:


> Oooh. 72 Virgins!!!!!!


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Squeakr said:


> Oooh. 72 Virgins!!!!!!


Ya but virgin what?...


----------



## Squeakr

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Ya but virgin what?...


NF said it with his picture. OHH YEAH!! WAIT....OHH NOOOOOO!


----------



## alte Dame

hurtinginohio said:


> “Surrender to what is. Say ‘yes’ to life—and see how life suddenly starts working for you rather than against you.”
> Eckhart Tolle"


LOL, seriously. 

Let's see how quickly the legal system can start working against him rather than for him.

HIO - I know that it is too soon. I know that. But does this continued pathetic idiocy help you at all? Does it accelerate your loss of respect for him?

Before too long he'll be telling the world that 'it was a dark and stormy night,' when he realized that 'we're not getting older, we're getting better,' and that 'today is the first day of the rest of his life,' so he will 'grab that brass ring...'

Some articulate poster called him a turd. Well put, imo.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes his teenage angsty quotes & selfies have definitely made me lose respect for him. This would be so much easier if we didn't have a daughter, I'd love to tell him to go fvck off & never see him again.


----------



## Working1

hurtinginohio said:


> I don't think so, he left FB for about 2 weeks but was back on last week. I'm sure he's not shutting down his Instagram account because he's still following the OW on there.
> 
> And OMG, how pathetic to post quotes like that??


Posts like that prove that he is high on life right now, which means he will bottom out and hit the ground. He has a huge sense of false confidence right now.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Well I'm not following him on FB anymore, but several friends forwarded this to me today,


Please text these people - right now - and say "Thank you for letting me know what stbx said, but please understand it's not helping me. Please don't send me any information about stbx any more unless it's to tell me he died or is in a hospital (for DDs' sakes). Anything else is irrelevant."


----------



## turnera

Working1 said:


> Posts like that prove that he is high on life right now, which means he will bottom out and hit the ground. He has a huge sense of false confidence right now.


Either that, or desperation to BELIEVE it, when he knows it isn't true. He's looking at Christmas without his family. Gotta suck. So he's scrambling.

Now go DARK.

There is NO reason you should have ANY contact with him any more. NONE. DD11 I'm sure has her own phone, or will tomorrow. Any contact can be between the two of them hereon forward. Tell her why. She will understand.


----------



## SamuraiJack

hurtinginohio said:


> Well I'm not following him on FB anymore, but several friends forwarded this to me today, it is a post he made this morning. For what it's worth, he still has not deactivated his account. I cannot believe he posts this sh!t!! Really? Remember what is important in life? Aagghhhhhh what a giant d-bag!
> 
> "I’m wishing all my FB friends and family (an early) wonderful Christmas and Happy New Year. In observance of this, I will be deactivating FB for awhile. I hope all of you get to spend some special time with your families and friends and remember what is important in life.
> “Surrender to what is. Say ‘yes’ to life—and see how life suddenly starts working for you rather than against you.”
> Eckhart Tolle"


These people arent friends if they are sending you stuff they know will hurt you.
Tell them to stop feeding you stuff from him.
If they continue, then identify them as toxic and wastebin them.


----------



## farside

SamuraiJack said:


> These people arent friends if they are sending you stuff they know will hurt you.
> Tell them to stop feeding you stuff from him.
> If they continue, then identify them as toxic and wastebin them.


Isn't the info from Facebook free discovery for the divorce and custody proceedings? Its painful, but accumulating this stuff may be helpful. Talk to your lawyer.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Ugh I let him come spend a few hours here with the kids today, he just left to head to his parents in NY. He wrote each of the girls a letter saying he would always love them, blah blah blah & he's sorry he hurt mom, but he needed to be happy & live life with no regrets. I'm am shaking with anger right now.


----------



## farsidejunky

I will refer you to my previous post:

_"Screw him and his meme's. What an arrogant turd.

HIO, you cannot detach fast enough from this man. You need to see yourself in a better light. There are good men out there, and you know you are worth it.

Now detach, heal, and prove yourself right."_



Merry Christmas to you and your girls, HIO.


----------



## Q tip

Dump him and let his regrets begin.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks, that's just what I needed to hear, he IS an arrogant turd! He is getting a twin bed from his parents so he won't have to sleep on a futon any more. That helps too, why would I want a 40 year old man who runs home to mommy to get his childhood bed.

O and I'm sure those letters were written to appease his own guilt.


----------



## oneMOreguy

hurtinginohio said:


> Thanks, that's just what I needed to hear, he IS an arrogant turd! He is getting a twin bed from his parents so he won't have to sleep on a futon any more. That helps too, why would I want a 40 year old man who runs home to mommy to get his childhood bed.
> 
> O and I'm sure those letters were written to appease his own guilt.


...not so much guilt, but shame. At some level he understands that he stands alone and in the spotlight for his actions, and he wants to not look so bad to the girls, and maybe to you also since he knew you would see the letters. I am so surprised at how this is unfolding since he seemingly is cut off from the other woman by her husband. There must be much more going on in his head than the other girl, but who knows. 

What you do know is that unless/until he comes crawling and begging back, you are best served by proceeding in life and finding joy and happiness without him.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I don't think they are completely cut off, I know they still follow each other on Instagram, I think she's gas lighting her husband. I really want to follow up with him, but he asked me not to contact him again.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> why would I want a 40 year old man who runs home to mommy to get his childhood bed.


A perfect note on which to go COMPLETELY DARK.

Have his emails redirected to a friend or family member, who will screen them and inform you if any issues with the kids exist. You don't even have to tell him they're no longer going to you.

JUST STOP INTERACTING.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> I don't think they are completely cut off, I know they still follow each other on Instagram, I think she's gas lighting her husband. I really want to follow up with him, but he asked me not to contact him again.


Have you told her parents yet?


----------



## hurtinginohio

I have no idea who they are, took me weeks to figure out how to contact her husband.


----------



## Q tip

This guy is damaged. Adult onset of something friggin weird. Who knows.


----------



## thenub

The only way you should picture him.......💩


----------



## hurtinginohio

So I'm off work until Jan. 5, which is great, lots of time to spend with DD. Also, I'm thinking a good time to purge the house of him. There are wedding, vacation, family pics of us in every damn room of the house just staring at me, 14 years worth. He hasn't been gone even a month yet, but has made it clear there is zero chance for R, so I feel those things just need to go. I'm not throwing them out, but boxing up & storing out of sight.

I will probably have to move by the end of the school year so I may as we'll start purging so I can downsize. Plus, I can use the money from anything I can sell.


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> So I'm off work until Jan. 5, which is great, lots of time to spend with DD. Also, I'm thinking a good time to purge the house of him. There are wedding, vacation, family pics of us in every damn room of the house just staring at me, 14 years worth. He hasn't been gone even a month yet, but has made it clear there is zero chance for R, so I feel those things just need to go. I'm not throwing them out, but boxing up & storing out of sight.
> 
> I will probably have to move by the end of the school year so I may as we'll start purging so I can downsize. Plus, I can use the money from anything I can sell.


Have you explained why you are going to put the pictures away to your daughter? She might have some feelings about it.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> I will probably have to move by the end of the school year so I may as we'll start purging so I can downsize. Plus, I can use the money from anything I can sell.


Did I tell you about my neighbor, whose husband cheated on her, left her and their 6 kids? We had our semi-annual neighborhood garage sale and we heard she was selling a bunch of stuff so we went down there to see. She was selling all his stuff - golf clubs, patio set, barbecue pit, hunting gear, etc. - for a penny on the dollar. Like $50 for a $2000 set of golf clubs. He must have gotten a phone call from someone cos he comes driving up at max speed, jumps out of his car, screams at the top of his lungs at her, what does she think she's doing, this is HIS stuff, blah blah blah, she just shrugged and said 'you abandoned us; _my _stuff now. And I want it gone.' There was nothing he could do; he finally cussed her out some more and drove off in a huff. We never saw him again.


----------



## farsidejunky

HIO:

In this process, start to separate out anything that will go to him. Purge the house of ANYTHING left of his as well. 

Box it up, and use the mini storage idea I have seen Turnera recommend.

Start working on child care for New Years Eve. Let it be the symbolic end to the old and the welcoming of the new. Go out and socialize. Go to a party. Do something that reminds you that you are a woman, not just a mother. 

Don't be reckless, but do have fun. You deserve it.


----------



## turnera

That idea is to rent a storage room, move all his stuff to it, and then mail the key to him with a note that gives the address of the storage unit, how long it's rented for (a month), and that if he doesn't go collect it, or pay for another month, the storage unit company will sell his stuff. Of course you could act all sweet and pretend you're doing it to 'help' him, lol. But you get his stuff out of your face - win/win.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks for the suggestions! If it were warmer I would have a huge garage sale this weekend, but I wouldn't sell stuff dirt cheap because I know I will need the money. 

I love the idea of a storage unit! I've already been separating things out, for example when dd & I put up the tree, I put all his ornaments in a box to give to him.

O, and dd is already invited to a friends for New Years so I'm trying to find plans for myself as well.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

You should take the focus away from him, and see what you can do to improve your own life. He is a distraction, keeping you from moving on. I would not bother trying to expose the affair any further, and the ow husband has his head in the sand, and that is his own issue.

Take time and figure what Hurting needs to do to move on. What can Hurting do that is within her own power to make herself happy again? Have you made any new friends that only know you personally? It is better to deal with the what is, rather than dealing with what you want to happen. Even though you are not divorced, call him your ex to everyone and yourself. Start cutting those ties. View him as your ex, think of him as your ex, and eventually you will accept him as your ex.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Mr. fisty, I'm trying and I think him being in NY for the next 10 days will help me. That's part of why I want to remove photos & memories for now and maybe rearrange some furniture. Something different, something that is just me, not us.


----------



## yeah_right

Removing the personal photos is a great idea for two reasons...

1. It's not a constant reminder that delays your emotional healing
2. It's a good idea to limit family photos anyway when staging a home to sell.

Tell DD she is welcome to have photos of her dad in her room if she wants them. But HIO should not have to suffer needlessly. Besides, I'll bet $50 her WH won't be putting family pics up in his place. So why should she?


----------



## hurtinginohio

I haven't updated in a few days so I thought I should. Not much has happened other than I've had NO communication with him since Christmas, that's 3 days with no calls, texts or emails. I'm pretty proud of myself, it does get easier, although once he's back from his parents we will obviously need to have contact regarding DD and financial stuff. But I'm hoping not to hear from him until after New Years. I am starting to think of him as my ex, especially since he made the comment about our marriage just being a piece of paper anymore. 

I brought DD and her friend to a city about 2 hours from where we live for shopping & staying at a hotel with a pool, just for something fun to do. We needed to get out of that house! I have spent time with my friends the past few days which has helped me too.


----------



## thenub

Glad to hear you are keeping your mind clear. I can feel your strength in every post I read. You seem to have the resolve to not only face any circumstance, but to come out even stronger. 

I'm sure the new year will have its share of ups and downs for you. Just remember everyone here is willing to be a virtual shoulder to lean on. 

Reading your post from the beginning has shown me that most advice given has come from those that have or are going through what you are now. I'm sure your daughters will learn a great deal from the strength you have and continue to show in this life altering event. 

All the best to you and your daughters in the new year
((Hugs to al))

Mike.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks Mike, I certainly don't always feel strong! There are still many moments when it still feels like a dagger to the heart & I have to gasp to catch my breath.

Well still no contact since Christmas, he's not even sent our daughter a text or anything. Neither have his parents, nothing, it's like we don't exist to them anymore. 

I'm still resolved to go into the new year purging my home of him, and letting go of people who don't respect me.


----------



## turnera

Is all his stuff boxed up?


----------



## hurtinginohio

turnera said:


> Is all his stuff boxed up?


Pretty much, except I used trash bags, just threw his crap in them. Of course there is random stuff here and there, but as I come across stuff I bag it up.


----------



## yeah_right

hurtinginohio said:


> Pretty much, except I used trash bags, just threw his crap in them. Of course there is random stuff here and there, but as I come across stuff I bag it up.


Good job!!!!!



hurtinginohio said:


> Well still no contact since Christmas, he's not even sent our daughter a text or anything. Neither have his parents, nothing, it's like we don't exist to them anymore.


As far as your daughter not hearing from her father or grandparents, I had the same experience as a kid. My parents divorced when my dad cheated. Both dad and his parents went dark on me for years. No financial support, no communication. It was hard on me but my mom made a good life for us. The rest of my childhood was pretty much happy and fun. I am a fairly well-adjusted adult with a very nice life. 

With the internet, my dad and grandparents have come creeping out of the woodwork in recent years. I am cordial, but there will never be a close relationship. They are hurt by this, but in my mind, they are not "family". They can't come into my life when I'm almost 40 and want to be close with my nearly grown children and me. The damage is done. There is no bond and I have no interest in investing any effort into creating one. Not angry anymore, just indifferent and busy.

Your husband and his parents may learn the same sad lesson down the road. But that's their problem, not yours. Your job is to focus on your new, smaller family unit and move forward.


----------



## turnera

yeah_right said:


> As far as your daughter not hearing from her father or grandparents, I had the same experience as a kid. My parents divorced when my dad cheated. Both dad and his parents went dark on me for years. No financial support, no communication. It was hard on me but my mom made a good life for us. The rest of my childhood was pretty much happy and fun. I am a fairly well-adjusted adult with a very nice life.


IMO, the most important thing you can do is NOT help your daughter keep raised hopes of him staying in her life. Let her understand it will be different now, let her mourn the life she had, and let her embrace the new life with you and, if he so chooses, the intermittent place he may have in it. When he does bother to show up, it will be good, but not essential for her happiness.


----------



## hurtinginohio

So after 5 days I finally did get a text from him. Was it about our daughter? No, he just asked if he got anything from State Farm in the mail.

Eta: I did not reply.


----------



## yeah_right

I'm so sorry. But you did the right thing by not replying.

If anything does come from State Farm, just chuck it into the trash bags with the rest of his stuff.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I get the no response tactic, but I am also a very direct person and feel it does not serve anyone to be silent on crappy behavior. When my H pulled the same mess and our child was upset about it I gave him permission to be direct with his Dad about it. Our sons voice truly became part of the catalyst to change in behavior in my H. At first it was suspect that I was coaching him, but nothing was further from the truth. This child was being taught at school about kindness, love, being happy, taking care of others and he wasn't seeing that from his Dad. And when he started speaking to me about it I advised him to be direct but respectful to his Dad. I was so proud of him. He was very afraid the first time, but one night out of the blue, he spoke very clearly and very respectfully about where his Dad was failing him. I was busting at the seems proud of him. He wanted his Dad to take him to school more, he wanted more hugs, kisses and for his Dad to smile more because he had not grown up that way. This was at four years old (last year). NOW, he misses his Dad when they are apart because my H has done the work to fix not only OUR relationship but the relationship with our son. When my H first stayed silent I allowed it, but when our child started putting voice to his pain I created a path for it to go to my H's heart instead of just to me. It had the impact it needed to have over time. It didn't happen right away. I still had to dish out some tough love along the way, but I know his heart impacted his Dad's. Stepping out of the way from between them was a wise move. Fwiw.


----------



## turnera

blossom, I think you're missing the boat on this one. First, you're naturally a very strong outspoken person so 'giving back' comes naturally to you, I can tell that you don't even think twice about it. For someone else it might not be so easy. MY first thought on facing a confrontational or rude stbx would be to cry. I imagine she's somewhere in between. 

Second, this is the man who's broken her heart and betrayed her, and she still secretly has hopes of him ending the nonsense and coming home, so just snapping back at someone to show them how rude they are won't come naturally. With women in her shoes, at least at first, it's more helpful for them to have NC so that she doesn't trigger. You KNOW if she chewed him out, he would be right back in her face within the INSTANT. And she's not ready for that. Right now, she needs time apart to be able to see him more accurately, to be able to deal with him without all the emotions swirling around inside her. It's just safer that way.

If he directly messes with their kid, sure, send him a note. Otherwise, no.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Keep it up until you are detach enough to stay in control. A confrontation will get you nowhere and really achieve nothing, because no one will listen. He will not care to listen to a word you say, so it will be wasted energy. His irrational anger and his affair fog will block out everything besides the righteous indignation he feels. Your logic will not reach him at the moment, and the only thing you can do is learn to be your own person again.

If you do get in a confrontation with him, your anger will likely slip because anger wants its needs met. In this case, you will feel frustrated that you are not understood. Anger wants a response, understanding, acceptance, and some kind of action that will appease it. He will not recognize your anger for the purposes that it is set for, and that in return will make you more angry.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> blossom, I think you're missing the boat on this one. First, you're naturally a very strong outspoken person so 'giving back' comes naturally to you, I can tell that you don't even think twice about it. For someone else it might not be so easy. MY first thought on facing a confrontational or rude stbx would be to cry. I imagine she's somewhere in between.
> 
> Second, this is the man who's broken her heart and betrayed her, and she still secretly has hopes of him ending the nonsense and coming home, so just snapping back at someone to show them how rude they are won't come naturally. With women in her shoes, at least at first, it's more helpful for them to have NC so that she doesn't trigger. You KNOW if she chewed him out, he would be right back in her face within the INSTANT. And she's not ready for that. Right now, she needs time apart to be able to see him more accurately, to be able to deal with him without all the emotions swirling around inside her. It's just safer that way.
> 
> If he directly messes with their kid, sure, send him a note. Otherwise, no.


I can totally agree with you T. It is definitely a process and I have had a LOT of practice of setting my hurt aside to make sure my hurt doesn't get in the way of someone elses relationship. I HAD to for a while. Yes, it is second nature for me. She DOES need to protect her heart, it took me forever to know how to do that and today I can do it even when I'm hurting by being VERY direct about the other person's crappy behavior. It takes refined discernment to understand how to balance your own hurt and protection with not interfering with a childs relationship with their parent. And my thoughts were certainly not criticizing anyone here as much as it was offering an additional perspective on what may happen down the road. 

I would have already been calling him on his crap and DARED him to blame me for it, but that is just me. 

HIO is doing great and my offering is no criticism to anyone. And would certainly need to be tweaked for her personal circumstances if she felt it resonated at all. So, no worries Ms. T  Always appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## yeah_right

I'm going to have to agree with Turnera on this one, Blossom. I think you need to choose your battles on confrontations, and timing is everything. HIO is not in that place yet, and neither is her WH. Her WH ignores the family for almost a week and then randomly asks about a piece of mail. Sorry, no. He doesn't deserve a response to his stupid question and if HIO confronted him, it would upset her and fall on deaf ears anyway.

BL, your H was open to R and I'm simply not seeing any of that in HIO's WH. So first priority is to protect herself and her DD.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Ugh, so I had a dream of him last night, we were together going somewhere and happy. I woke up & the realization hit me all over again.  I do know that I've gotten stronger with NC, I haven't cried since Friday which is a pretty big deal.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

yeah_right said:


> I'm going to have to agree with Turnera on this one, Blossom. I think you need to choose your battles on confrontations, and timing is everything. HIO is not in that place yet, and neither is her WH. Her WH ignores the family for almost a week and then randomly asks about a piece of mail. Sorry, no. He doesn't deserve a response to his stupid question and if HIO confronted him, it would upset her and fall on deaf ears anyway.
> 
> BL, your H was open to R and I'm simply not seeing any of that in HIO's WH. So first priority is to protect herself and her DD.


 Agreed Girl, no worries. Just throwing it out there.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

The less contact, the less chance of rebuilding your bond. It is like an addiction, and if you see him, memories will resurface.

Use the anger you feel in a constructive way. Prove to yourself that you do not need him. Use it to work out and you can have a life without him in it. Talk to someone who understands and it will help alleviate some of the anger and frustrations. That is why the forum is a safe place for you, you have people who can relate.


----------



## dignityhonorpride

Sorry about the dream, HIO   good job keeping NC. You are so strong and getting stronger every day!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thenub

HIO how was your new year? I hope you are staying strong.


----------



## darkdays

it depends on the level of emotions invested in the EA. You can tell if it was a bull, stupid thing and its over or if the dude was dreaming about this person and still thinks of them. Just online, no contact stupid stuff said and its over I would not divorce the person. Its more like a internet fantasy thing. Though having to deal with his little broken heart is ridiculous. If they met, if it was obsessive and real and if the guy is still thinking of her then you have greater issues.


----------



## hurtinginohio

My new year was fine, thanks, actually better than I expected because I was surrounded by friends. I still haven't seen him since Christmas except for about 30 seconds one morning last week when he stopped to pick up his mail. He is now moving into an apartment close to our house  I told him I didn't want him that close but he says he wants to help with DD. I started seeing a new IC last week, tons better than the mc we were seeing and she's is helping me with boundaries.

I know he and OW are still in contact and I think he actually went to see her this past weekend, in fact I'm 99.9% sure. So, it's obviously progressed to a PA which has just solidified my resolved that he needs to GO. We are having legal separation papers drawn up this week with a temp support order. Because of insurance reasons, we won't push the divorce through until after school is out in June. But for all other reasons, we are done, 100%, I'm a free agent.

I'm moving past the shock and hurt into the protection stage, of course he's forgetting all the things he said at the beginning about making sure we were taken care of, etc. and is trying to get me to give him furniture and household items. Um no, you're not taking one of our beds to go screw your ho in, go buy your own. He's finding out it's rather pricey to maintain 2 households, but I'm determined he's the one that needs to suffer the consequences of his actions, not my daughter and I. WE didn't chose to leave the home, he did, therefore it's his responsibility to meet his own needs, not mine.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

How goes the path of self-improvement? Are you faring any better in other aspects of your life? You will know how well your doing when you stop caring about what he is up to as long as he meets his obligations to his children and his other financial responsibilities. Also, I am glad you found a competent ic.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Mr.Fisty said:


> How goes the path of self-improvement? Are you faring any better in other aspects of your life? You will know how well your doing when you stop caring about what he is up to as long as he meets his obligations to his children and his other financial responsibilities. Also, I am glad you found a competent ic.


I'm getting there...I think about him less and less and am focusing on what I want to do with my future. I know my IC will be a big help in moving forward. It's only been 2 months, so I think I'm doing ok considering.

Next Tuesday is DD's birthday, she asked if the whole family can go to her favorite Japanese steakhouse for dinner. I said sure. I mentioned it to him and he will be there, so I will grin and bear it for my daughter. Luckily we sit facing the chef and it's so entertaining that I shouldn't really have to look at him, or try to make conversation. Then, that Friday her & I leave for 9 days, 2 nights in Florida then a week long cruise. I think it will do me a lot of good to not have phone/internet access for a week and focus only on her.


----------



## Nucking Futs

hurtinginohio said:


> I'm getting there...I think about him less and less and am focusing on what I want to do with my future. I know my IC will be a big help in moving forward. It's only been 2 months, so I think I'm doing ok considering.
> 
> Next Tuesday is DD's birthday, she asked if the whole family can go to her favorite Japanese steakhouse for dinner. I said sure. I mentioned it to him and he will be there, so I will grin and bear it for my daughter. Luckily we sit facing the chef and it's so entertaining that I shouldn't really have to look at him, or try to make conversation. Then, *that Friday her & I leave for 9 days, 2 nights in Florida* then a week long cruise. I think it will do me a lot of good to not have phone/internet access for a week and focus only on her.


Are you going to be nipping back across the border for 7 of those nights? Or is the cruise in the middle of that week? :scratchhead:

I live in Florida and I can assure you that it's fine to stay here as many nights as days. Really, it's ok. :smthumbup:


----------



## hurtinginohio

Nucking Futs said:


> Are you going to be nipping back across the border for 7 of those nights? Or is the cruise in the middle of that week? :scratchhead:
> 
> I live in Florida and I can assure you that it's fine to stay here as many nights as days. Really, it's ok. :smthumbup:


HA! Spending 2 nights/days in Florida with a friend, THEN a 7 night/day cruise.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Male or female friend?


----------



## SamuraiJack

Blossom Leigh said:


> Male or female friend?


Hmmmmmm...yes...do tell.


(I'm kidding. Too soon for that.)


----------



## hurtinginohio

Blossom Leigh said:


> Male or female friend?


Ha! Female friend who also went through a crappy divorce a few years ago.

However...I've been FB chatting (just casually) with a guy I dated a few times over 20 years ago! He was in the military at the time and Japan was a hell of a commute so things fizzled out. He's also now divorced, so who knows? At the very least, it's a nice ego boost after having my self-esteem so brutally dashed.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Ha! Female friend who also went through a crappy divorce a few years ago.
> 
> However...I've been FB chatting (just casually) with a guy I dated a few times over 20 years ago! He was in the military at the time and Japan was a hell of a commute so things fizzled out. He's also now divorced, so who knows? At the very least, it's a nice ego boost after having my self-esteem so brutally dashed.


Good on the girl...:smthumbup:

Watch it with the guy until you are done with your divorce.


----------



## hurtinginohio

O, I know! He lives 4 hours away so it's not like we're hooking up anytime soon. But, the attention is nice...


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> O, I know! He lives 4 hours away so it's not like we're hooking up anytime soon. But, the attention is nice...


Understood.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

As long as you leave it at ego-stroking. But who says you cannot be friends, just maintain a boundary. You still need to focus on you, and the less chaos, the better at this point. Things that you need to work on, a complicated friendship will be a distraction. Have fun on the trip and I hope you socialize and meet new people along the way.


----------



## Mr Blunt

hurtinginohio
*Make a bucket list. That list will be for a middle aged woman that has a LOT of life and options*. Find something that your have passion about and pour yourself into that. In a short time your POS Husband will be fading into the distance and you will be coming more alive.

If your husband has any common sense then he will eventually find out that abandoning his family will be a huge reality that will hurt his quest to find his happiness. How can a person that betrays his children and go looking for another woman that has betrayed her family find happiness? Your husband cannot handle reality so he goes into the twilight zone and lives among the unicorns. That will fool him for a while but he will eventually use his common sense and wake up. He will have done considerably damage at that time, even more than now, and will find that his quest to find his happiness will be a LOT harder and maybe gone forever.

Your husband’s rejection of you will hurt his children as they are not going to accept any woman that he picks over their good mother. If he has any decency left than eventually he will try to connect a LOT more with his children but there will always be that scar on him that he rejected the woman(mom) that the children love the most.

Hurtininohio
*From your posts you seem to be a person that has bit of steel in your backbone*. I know you have been thrown to the ground these last few months but you have strength even if you do not see it right now. You are not lying down like a door mat and apologizing when he cleans his feet on you. You have taken a terrible emotional beating and have taken actions to show that you are no door mat! You have shown to have qualities that a good man would notice. *You have been hit with a huge blow and have fallen to the ground but you have got up and have not abandoned your child and have not jumped into bed with some other woman’s man to please your selfish self*... Those are just a few qualities that I have picked out.

Blunt


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thank you Mr. Blunt, just what I needed to hear tonight!


----------



## Q tip

Congrats also on post #1,000!


----------



## Squeakr

Be careful with the FB posts until the separation is official and your lawyer gives the OK. I would hate to see him subpoena the FB and social media posts to use against you in a custody battle. As far as you know/knew your WS has only had an EA and this could be construed as one as well making you as equally bad as he in this courts eyes. 

I understand you are done and moving on (and commend you for that) but until it is legal you need to watch your back against such things. If he has more money and connections legally than you (because of relatives) then he may be getting coached on how to make this worse for you. Just anf FYI.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hurtinginohio

O I don't post anything questionable, those are private messages which are also very benign. Trust me, I have screenshots of his texts and google searches which are wayyyyy worse.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> O I don't post anything questionable, those are private messages which are also very benign. Trust me, I have screenshots of his texts and google searches which are wayyyyy worse.


I am not trying to imply or disagree with this but just provide a warning. Even PM are subject to subpoena and why lots of lawyers recommend getting off of social media during the D period. The issues being said on TAM could count as well. Heck him seeing a new male friend added to your FB (or being told by a mutual friend you both ) could be enough to trigger the order. Anything to get the upper hand. Also the excuse has been used too many times that the conversation was nothing really, and believed to be so by the party having it, when everyone around sees it differently. I would bet your WS said the exact same thing about his texts with the OW? I know my STBXW did and saw nothing wrong with them or even the amount and frequency of them. They just made her feel god and special which allowed her to overlook the unacceptable nature of many of them. Just a fair warning is all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hurtinginohio

O I hear ya! And it would be hard for my H to say their texts were innocent when I have screen shots of him sending pics of his junk to her....


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> O I hear ya! And it would be hard for my H to say their texts were innocent when I have screen shots of him sending pics of his junk to her....


Not hard at all in fact very plausible for such declarations. Mine did the exact same thing and claimed it was all innocent as well. Even went so far as to claim they were meant for me and sent in error to the AP and never brought up to me in conversation as she was "embarrassed that maybe I didn't like them and that is why I never mentioned them to her so to protect her from feeling further embarrassed for her dedication she never mentioned it to me". It is so outrageous and unplausible that one can't even make these sorts of things up in a dream, but in real life they think we are that stupid and will accept such excuses and explanations. It is like the "I never told you about the details and hid them from you as I was protecting you from the hurt it would inflict" explanations.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Squeakr said:


> It is like the "I never told you about the details and hid them from you as I was protecting you from the hurt it would inflict" explanations.


That's the "best" rationalization one..  I got to hear that one a few times before I finally called BS and sent her packing.

ETA: Sorry to thread jack there HIO. I think what Squeakr is saying is just to be careful with what you do on social media. Even if it is 1000% innocent, it can be twisted in a thousand different ways by your WH and attorneys to justify/rationalize their actions. "See, it wasn't so bad what WH did, because look, just days after ruthlessly kicking poor WH out of his own home for no apparent reason, she immediately started chatting with another man." Doesn't matter how many messages or what the content is, it gets twisted.


----------



## dignityhonorpride

To piggyback on Squeakr for a sec, also make sure he never, ever, ever has a chance at accessing your laptop, email, social media, etc. Change passwords regularly, always log out, have a password on the laptop, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

Checking in on you. How are you holding up?


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks! I have my good days and bad days like all of here I guess. Yesterday was a crap day. I had an appt. with my IC which went well and I was feeling positive, but then last night I got a text from him, a text that was meant for the OW. He said, "hey do you want to go to [his hometown] with me over your spring break?". She works at a school so I knew immediately who it was for. I replied, "I don't think you meant to send this to me". Long pause then "sorry". Unbelievable, we're not even legally separated yet but he's already planning on taking her to meet his parents in another state.

So, I've decided I want NO MORE TEXTS from him and I don't need something like that happening again. So, today I downloaded all the texts from him into a document on my computer (in case I need documentation of anything), then deleted them and blocked his number! :smthumbup: No more calls, no more texts! No more seeing his name pop on on my phone and ruining my day, then remaining at the top of my contacts list. He can email me if he needs me, but I control when I log in to check the emails, no "dings" on my phone.

I'm leaving for vacation Friday, so that's a good distraction. Then, when I get back, it's down to the nitty-gritty of property division and support orders and all that crap.


----------



## ButtPunch

The same "OW"? The married one?


----------



## turnera

Good for you. And as a last step, IIWY, I would take that last text and forward it to his mom and dad and say "I think your son meant to send this to his MARRIED mistress."

'nuf said.


----------



## hurtinginohio

ButtPunch said:


> The same "OW"? The married one?


Yep, one and the same!


----------



## Squeakr

I would recommend not blocking his number until it is okayed through a lawyer so he can't say (even though the daughter has a phone) that you have cut off his parental rights and access to information needed to joint parent. You can do what you want, but I wouldn't do anything negative that hurts your case.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Squeakr said:


> I would recommend not blocking his number until it is okayed through a lawyer so he can't say (even though the daughter has a phone) that you have cut off his parental rights and access to information needed to joint parent. You can do what you want, but I wouldn't do anything negative that hurts your case.


Our DD has her own phone so he can contact her directly. He can email me as well, I check it all the time.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> Our DD has her own phone so he can contact her directly. He can email me as well, I check it all the time.


Yes, but he can't contact her about and shouldn't when it comes to custody and joint issues related to parenting. I acknowledged she had her own phone already but it could still be viewed as negative in a judges eyes as email and text aren't generally considered sufficient communication forms and phones are still the preferred method (and if he can prove you have blocked him, as some services announce it to the caller, it could hurt your case). Like I said do as you want, just take heed as he may play it dirty. No need to shoot the messenger, just pointing out possibilities you might not have thought of.


----------



## thenub

If you have a landline he can still call that


----------



## hurtinginohio

I changed it to block texts only so he cam still call if he needs to. He will do anything other than having to actually speak to me, so I know he won't call unless it's important. Text on the other hand...


----------



## karole

You really should send that text to the OW's husband.


----------



## farsidejunky

karole said:


> You really should send that text to the OW's husband.


YES.

HIO, do the right thing. He said no contact? Let him block you if he doesn't like it. But take the action that you know to be correct in your heart.


----------



## Squeakr

hurtinginohio said:


> I changed it to block texts only so he cam still call if he needs to. He will do anything other than having to actually speak to me, so I know he won't call unless it's important. Text on the other hand...


i think this is a very good choice and appropriate. This way they can't claim that he couldn't contact you for custody necessities and you don't need to have that happen again. The other thing that comes to mind is that he might not have done it on accident, but is trying to hurt you purposely (and this way he can claim it was an accident). 

Heck, playing devil's advocate, he can even claim it was meant for your daughter and got your number by accident, as he wanted to take her to the grandparents and was gauging her interest. What you relayed to us didn't have a name attached so he can easily claim that. It could just be another way to torture and make you do irrational acts in retaliation. Stirring the pot or maybe it was meant for your daughter (doubt it, but possible).

Either way good decision on your part. :smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## hurtinginohio

Squeakr said:


> i think this is a very good choice and appropriate. This way they can't claim that he couldn't contact you for custody necessities and you don't need to have that happen again. The other thing that comes to mind is that he might not have done it on accident, but is trying to hurt you purposely (and this way he can claim it was an accident).
> 
> Heck, playing devil's advocate, he can even claim it was meant for your daughter and got your number by accident, as he wanted to take her to the grandparents and was gauging her interest. What you relayed to us didn't have a name attached so he can easily claim that. It could just be another way to torture and make you do irrational acts in retaliation. Stirring the pot or maybe it was meant for your daughter (doubt it, but possible).
> 
> Either way good decision on your part. :smthumbup::smthumbup:


No it was for her...I couldn't help myself and texted back, unfvckingbelievable and he replied, "are you just mad I found someone who actually wants to go to [hometown] with me?". That's when I knew I had to block the jacka$$.

I posted them both on cheaterville yesterday, that felt good! :smthumbup:


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Give us the links to the CV pages and we'll get the hit counts up for you!


----------



## hurtinginohio

Link deleted, PM me and I'll send it to you.


----------



## ButtPunch

You can anonymously email thru CV this to her husband, school, etc.


----------



## hurtinginohio

ButtPunch said:


> You can anonymously email this to her husband, school, etc.


I know, like I said before I can't find an email for her husband, but am seriously thinking about sending it to the school administration where she works. I'm going to try to find email addresses for other family members as well...


----------



## Squeakr

Might want to delete the link and just send it to posters via PM so it doesn't how in a Google search and lead back to you. Just saying.

Also School administration won't care. Don't believe me just ask Dadof2, myself, and anyone else who's spouse has been in education and cheated. Heck Dadof2 even had his Ex have her A with the Assistant principal (and I believe during work time, not school time necessarily, but required work hours) and the school looked the other way (and teachers have a moral clause that others within the school, secretaries, janitors, bus drivers, etc, don't have within their contracts). But if it makes you feel better then I say go for it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I bet her town will be lighting up with gossip soon since she grew up there and is well known in the community


----------



## hurtinginohio

Ok, so H serves on a state agency board of directors, is actually the president-elect. I just anonymously emailed the link to the president of the board...I'm just so sick of everyone thinking he is this stand-up, Mr. Nice Guy when everything that comes out of his mouth is lies!


----------



## Abc123wife

hurtinginohio said:


> I know, like I said before I can't find an email for her husband, but am seriously thinking about sending it to the school administration where she works. I'm going to try to find email addresses for other family members as well...


Knowing your story from here I can see which postings on cheaterville are your husband and the OW. I would say from the picture of their messaging that you posted there, it appears that they had already got together physically before they were caught. You had thought (probably since that is what he told you) that they had not met in person before, but reading their message "Remember we never met" it looks like they actually had started the PA before. They were getting their stories straight in those texts.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Abc123wife said:


> Knowing your story from here I can see which postings on cheaterville are your husband and the OW. I would say from the picture of their messaging that you posted there, it appears that they had already got together physically before they were caught. You had thought (probably since that is what he told you) that they had not met in person before, but reading their message "Remember we never met" it looks like they actually had started the PA before. They were getting their stories straight in those texts.


From all the texts I read, they had met once in person at a coffee shop where they talked for 3 hours. The day of the texts I posted, that's the day they were planning on meeting at the hotel. I ruined that for them that day, but I know for a fact they have indeed met several times since then.


----------



## 3putt

Interested in a home phone number for her BH? Pretty sure I found it for you. Check your PM in a minute.


----------



## turnera

It's great that you did this. Just be prepared for intense hatred, threats, and maybe even unexpected stuff from one or more of them. Threats of lawsuits, EXTREME threats of SOMEthing (blackmail, whatever) to get you to remove the CV post.

I hope you can stay strong and not remove it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Your daughter could get it too.


----------



## Abc123wife

hurtinginohio said:


> From all the texts I read, they had met once in person at a coffee shop where they talked for 3 hours. The day of the texts I posted, that's the day they were planning on meeting at the hotel. I ruined that for them that day, but I know for a fact they have indeed met several times since then.


They live 350 mikes apart. Do you believe they drove that distance and only had coffee? It doesn't matter now but I don't think you had a chance by the time he revealed his EA and promise to cut contact. He probably had no intention to cut contact but was too afraid to face divorce. He had to devise a way to make you look like the evil one.

I am also shocked to see how this women was willing to lie to her daughter too. It seems from those text that she told her daughter (Emma) that she would cut contact while she had no intention if doing that! I wonder how her husband and kids are handling this and do they know it has gone full steam ahead?


----------



## hurtinginohio

At that time I still had access to his texts, and he texted his guy friend that they met for coffee and talked for 3 hours. I think if anything else had happened, he would have bragged about it. But, that's neither here nor there, they've had contact since so it doesn't really matter at this point. ETA: He travels for work some and so was within an hour or two of where she lives, she came to meet him in the city he was at for work.

I have tons more saved texts, including some gross sexting...


----------



## Abc123wife

hurtinginohio said:


> At that time I still had access to his texts, and he texted his guy friend that they met for coffee and talked for 3 hours. I think if anything else had happened, he would have bragged about it. But, that's neither here nor there, they've had contact since so it doesn't really matter at this point. ETA: He travels for work some and so was within an hour or two of where she lives, she came to meet him in the city he was at for work.
> 
> *I have tons more saved texts, including some gross sexting... :rolleyes*:


Oh! You should add a screenshot of that to cheaterville. What you have there now is a good one but a sexting one would show their true character and their involvement in a truly inappropriate affair!


----------



## farsidejunky

HIO, very ballsy!


----------



## hurtinginohio

OK! Be prepared, it's nauseating!


----------



## ButtPunch

Backlash......Shoot tell him to pi$$ off. It's the price you pay for being a sniveling little dark alley weasel.


----------



## KingwoodKev

You know, HIO, I had to create an account here just so I could reply. I just found your thread today and read the entire thing. Wow, what a roller coaster you've been on. I feel really bad for you. Being betrayed by the person you're closest with on this earth is indescribable pain.

I just want you to know that reading all the posts at once really showed me quite a transformation about you. In the beginning you were a sobbing mess asking "what did I do?" all the time. Over the course of a couple months I've seen you grow and find strength you might not have known you had. From the breadth of your posts I can tell you're a nice person, a good wife, and a wonderful mother. Those are qualities HIGHLY ATTRACTIVE to nice guys in this world that won't cheat on you.

I see him making all kinds of plans for his pathetic weasely future but I haven't seen you putting you first. You have a lot to offer the world. Don't let your husband's weakness, dishonesty, and betrayal jade you. Then he has truly destroyed you. I myself would never ever cheat on my wife. If I wanted out of the marriage I'd have that talk before I ever considered seeing someone else.

There are guys like us out there and you deserve one. I don't think you'd want this cheater back anyway. All ladies, here's a tip from a 47 y/o guy who has known literally dozens of cheating men in my life. They WILL NOT EVER STOP. They're liars, they have no integrity. If they tell you they'll stop that just means they'll be more careful next time. Learn from their mistakes and not repeat them.

HIO, hang in there. I'll be following along and I'm rooting for you. Good people deserve to be happy.


----------



## Squeakr

KingwoodKev said:


> All ladies, here's a tip from a 47 y/o guy who has known literally dozens of cheating men in my life. They WILL NOT EVER STOP. They're liars, they have no integrity. If they tell you they'll stop that just means they'll be more careful next time. Learn from their mistakes and not repeat them.


Please don't make your first post on here one to generalize and degrade the sexes to turn it into a gender war. The same has been said of both sexes, yet we have several representatives of both genders on here to prove your statement wrong.


----------



## Abc123wife

Squeakr said:


> Please don't make your first post on here one to generalize and degrade the sexes to turn it into a gender war. The same has been said of both sexes, yet we have several representatives of both genders on here to prove your statement wrong.


I did not read his post to mean that he thinks that all men will be cheaters and not stop lying, etc. I read it as him saying a cheater will not stop cheating, lying, etc. You know the sentiment "once a cheater, always a cheater."


----------



## Squeakr

Abc123wife said:


> I did not read his post to mean all men will be cheaters and not stop lying, etc. I read it as a cheater will not stop cheating, lying, etc. you know the sentiment "once a cheater, always a cheater."


I underdstand the intention and how it singled out men cheaters (I understand why as the thread OP is a woman) and that was the intent, but several on here would disagree with that such as EI, B1, MR and MRS. Adams to name a few, and various others. These have weathered infidelity and R ( which is why I say both sexes have many representatives on this board) would disagree completely with that statement as stated and yours as well. That was my point hence the mention of generalizations.


----------



## KingwoodKev

Squeakr said:


> Please don't make your first post on here one to generalize and degrade the sexes to turn it into a gender war. The same has been said of both sexes, yet we have several representatives of both genders on here to prove your statement wrong.


I have my doubts they prove it wrong. They're just more careful. It's not gender specific. I can only speak for men because I'm in the club. I hear the locker room chat. I know. I will say this. In my 47 years on this planet I haven't met a truly reformed cheater yet. I've met some who tried by staying away from situations that will tempt them but when inevitably the opportunity presents itself they backslide. It's like they can't help themselves which is something I'll never understand. Their integrity comes at such a cheap price. They so easily give it away. Maybe that's an overly cynical view but it's the truth. I've yet to meet a truly reformed cheater. Even those I thought were really reformed you end up catching them backsliding at some point.


----------



## hurtinginohio

O boy, he must have been googling himself (narcissist) and found the CV listing. Since he can't text me anymore, he sent me a scathing email threatening to have me removed from his health insurance. Blaming me for everything yet I was not the one who committed adultery.


----------



## Chaparral

hurtinginohio said:


> O boy, he must have been googling himself (narcissist) and found the CV listing. Since he can't text me anymore, he sent me a scathing email threatening to have me removed from his health insurance. Blaming me for everything yet I was not the one who committed adultery.


Check with your attorney or insurance agent. I doubt he can legally drop you on your insurance.

Greta work on CV posting, he earned it.

Could someone send me the link?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Has he been financially taking care of things on his end? Has he been giving you child support, or helping with bills. His financial responsiblities does not end with him gone. Talk to an attorney and see what your rights are. I wouldn't even reply to the email, just ignore it. Save it, and show it to your lawyer and seek their advice.


----------



## ButtPunch

Mr.Fisty said:


> Has he been financially taking care of things on his end? Has he been giving you child support, or helping with bills. His financial responsiblities does not end with him gone. Talk to an attorney and see what your rights are. I wouldn't even reply to the email, just ignore it. Save it, and show it to your lawyer and seek their advice.


I agree. Don't answer the email. Empty threat.


----------



## KingwoodKev

hurtinginohio said:


> O boy, he must have been googling himself (narcissist) and found the CV listing. Since he can't text me anymore, he sent me a scathing email threatening to have me removed from his health insurance. Blaming me for everything yet I was not the one who committed adultery.


Throughout this whole thing he never admitted his behavior is 100% his fault, he never truly apologized for being 100% wrong, and he never humbled himself. Until he does those things he's lost for good. Not just to you, but to himself too.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> O boy, he must have been googling himself (narcissist) and found the CV listing. Since he can't text me anymore, he sent me a scathing email threatening to have me removed from his health insurance. Blaming me for everything yet I was not the one who committed adultery.


He can't remove you unless you're legally divorced or separated. Government has rules about that.

A question to a legal website:


> You can't remove her in the middle of a plan or policy year, not unless and until the divorce goes through...that's because until the divorce happens, there was no "life event" justifying or allowing a change in coverage. They may have needed to include her for a month after depending on how the date(s) fell out, to make absolutely sure she was covered through the divorce. There is no discretion to HR in this--they cannot make a change to a policy during the plan year, unless certain defined life changes occur. Once the divorce is definitely final, on the other hand, not only may you remove her, but you *must* remove her--you cannot cover a non-spouse with your health insurance.
> 
> Read more: http://ask-a-lawyer.freeadvice.com/law-questions/can-a-spouse-be-removed-f-66789.htm#ixzz3Ozj8mncG
> Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
> Follow us: @FreeAdviceNews on Twitter | freeadvice on Facebook


more:
http://www.ehow.com/list_5972643_qualifies-change-events-health-insurance.html


----------



## micawber

HIO, I've been following your thread and I wanted to wish you and your DD a wonderful vacation and cruise! You could use a break. Take lots of pictures and when you get back, replace the ones you took down with the new ones. Find a nice hot-tub and relax. Get up early and go out on deck before the sun comes up, be still and revel in how vast and large this planet really is.

You will be OK. DD will too.


----------



## hurtinginohio

So, apparently someone, not me, sent the link to the school where she works. I just got another angry email how she is now taking out a restraining order on me, and how dare I fvck with someone's life like that...


----------



## turnera

Now THAT I would respond to:

"How dare YOU try to steal a married woman's HUSBAND away? Talk about fvcking with someone's life... and karma's a b*tch."


----------



## hurtinginohio

The email was from H so she must have called him as soon as she saw the link to CV.

He also said HE has been trying to take the high road lol, but that ends now, he feels nothing but hatred for me.


----------



## farsidejunky

Don't consequences suck?


----------



## yeah_right

If he's been taking the high road all this time, I'd hate to think how he would act when not on his best behavior.

These two are a trip. If it wasn't so hurtful to you and your daughter, I'd think it almost comical. You are not the bad guy here. The two people busting up families are the ones to blame.

Let her take out a restraining order. I doubt you'll be heading to that small town anytime soon. And ditto what everyone said on the health insurance.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Right? Like I'm going to waste 10 hours of my life on a round trip drive for HER?:rofl:


----------



## Trying95

Wow, he is really desperate to get at you! You are definitely not the evil one here and bad guys don't like to see their reflections in the mirror. He is in so much denial still. I doubt he will ever wake up and realize how much destruction he caused and the fact that he CHOSE to take the low road the Minute he began communications with her, instead of talking to you and honorably dissolving the marriage if that is what he wanted.

You are a very strong woman, keep at it!


----------



## GusPolinski

hurtinginohio said:


> So, apparently someone, not me, sent the link to the school where she works. I just got another angry email how she is now taking out a restraining order on me, and how dare I fvck with someone's life like that...


Two things...

1) A quick Google search for this woman's name and hometown revealed WAY too much info about her, including her work e-mail address... as well as the e-mail addresses for pretty much ALL of her co-workers, supervisors, etc. Talk about reckless and stupid. This woman was playing w/ fire.

2) Having said ^that^, it was NOT me.

ETA: It might be a good idea for you to edit the images that you uploaded in such a way that any personal information such as names is concealed/removed.


----------



## Trying95

But their names are revealed on Cheaterville, correct? I have not seen the posts.


----------



## GusPolinski

Trying95 said:


> But their names are revealed on Cheaterville, correct? I have not seen the posts.


Yep. To be clear, I'm not talking about the names of WH and OW. The names of others -- possibly OP, her children, and/or the children of OW -- are included in screenshots taken of the text messages.


----------



## alte Dame

"The high road"

This is how some people think. It is all completely self-focused and your husband has a bad case of it. I've read it throughout your thread.

- He declares unilaterally that your marriage is on the rocks and he owes it to himself to 'be true to his destiny.' Because he stated his thoughts and feelings to you, he has a green light to ditch you. This, to him, is the famous high road. 'I told you about it! I said our marriage was over! That meant I was FREE to do what I want!'

You hear this here all the time, that the cheater declared the marriage dead in order to give him/herself permission to cheat.

I would be tempted to edit the CV post to include this, that the subject thinks he has taken the high road because he is being 'honest' about his feelings, i.e., making no secret of his infidelity.


----------



## 3putt

hurtinginohio said:


> So, apparently someone, not me, sent the link to the school where she works. I just got another angry email how she is now taking out a restraining order on me, and how dare I fvck with someone's life like that...


----------



## alte Dame

I also have been wondering lately, OP, if the OW hasn't done this before. You hear this all the time, that people make a habit of online home wrecking & once they have reached a limit with one AP, they move on to another. There are several threads here where a BS details a history of a WS having constant online affairs.

Your WH sounds like a perfect dupe to me. His worldview sounds very naive, like a middle-school boy reading 'Catcher in the Rye.' He writes letters to his children at Christmas telling them he wants no regrets in life, but by this he means that he has to follow a very immature dream. (He apparently would have lifelong regrets about not chasing after this OW, but will have no such comparable regrets about hurting you and the children.)

Really, I wouldn't at all be surprised that this is just another lark for the OW and that her husband is long-suffering.


----------



## KingwoodKev

hurtinginohio said:


> So, apparently someone, not me, sent the link to the school where she works. I just got another angry email how she is now taking out a restraining order on me, and _*how dare I fvck with someone's life like that*_...


How dare _*you *_F with someone's life like that???!!!! HA!!! That's a massive amount of gall. How dare she destroy a family. Check that. TWO families. Cheaters amaze me with this utter bullsh*t. It seems they're all cut from the same cloth. Through all of this remember this one truth and keep it close to your heart. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. YOUR HUSBAND AND THIS WOMAN ARE CHEATERS. THEY'RE LIARS. THEY HAVE ZERO INTEGRITY AND ARE DESPICABLE HUMAN BEINGS.


----------



## alte Dame

I would also be tempted to send him an e-mail:

"You are confused about the definition of 'the high road':

Divorce first, new woman second = the high road.

New woman first, divorce second = NOT the high road.

If you think that the wider world would believe that you have taken the high road, you are deluded."


----------



## KingwoodKev

alte Dame said:


> I would also be tempted to send him an e-mail:
> 
> "You are confused about the definition of 'the high road':
> 
> Divorce first, new woman second = the high road.
> 
> New woman first, divorce second = NOT the high road.
> 
> If you think that the wider world would believe that you have taken the high road, you are deluded."


Cheaters tend to cope with the guilt of being a despicable human being by creating these types of fantasies in their head. Some of them even try to make themselves the victim in the whole thing.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I'm at the airport so thought I'd check in one more time, not sure how much I'll be online I the next week. But, thought you'd all appreciate the latest email, apparently he is going to sue me for defamation of character! :rofl:


----------



## 3putt

hurtinginohio said:


> I'm at the airport so thought I'd check in one more time, not sure how much I'll be online I the next week. But, thought you'd all appreciate the latest email, apparently he is going to sue me for defamation of character! :rofl:


Tell him, good! Now you can have her and all their emails/texts subpoenaed for evidence.

That'll pucker them both up.


----------



## alte Dame

3putt said:


> Tell him, good! Now you can have her and all their emails/texts subpoenaed for evidence.
> 
> That'll pucker them both up.


Exactly. Since you are doing nothing but telling the truth, you are happy to provide all of the evidence to prove that.

(But, honestly, since he is openly cheating on his wife, he would first have to prove that he has a character to defame.)


----------



## KingwoodKev

hurtinginohio said:


> I'm at the airport so thought I'd check in one more time, not sure how much I'll be online I the next week. But, thought you'd all appreciate the latest email, apparently he is going to sue me for defamation of character! :rofl:


He defamed his own character when he cheated. His character is of a cheater, liar, and lowlife with zero integrity. Don't for a second take pity or worry about your own character. Be strong and have a blast with DD.


----------



## 3putt

Did you realize her CV page has been taken down?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I wouldn't reply. If he does, the evidence you have gathered will skewer him in court. Perhaps you can counter sue the both of them. LOL. Have fun on your trip, and I will be hardly around nowadays. School is starting back up and professors like to give assignments before classes even start.


----------



## Squeakr

Don't reply back as if you did post it anonymously then the reply would let him know that you did it. Until then he has no proof as to whom posted it. Lawsuits that can't prove the source are not chargeable.


----------



## Trying95

Have a great trip!!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

alte Dame said:


> "The high road"
> 
> This is how some people think. It is all completely self-focused and your husband has a bad case of it. I've read it throughout your thread.
> 
> - He declares unilaterally that your marriage is on the rocks and he owes it to himself to 'be true to his destiny.' Because he stated his thoughts and feelings to you, he has a green light to ditch you. This, to him, is the famous high road. 'I told you about it! I said our marriage was over! That meant I was FREE to do what I want!'
> 
> *You hear this here all the time, that the cheater declared the marriage dead in order to give him/herself permission to cheat.*
> 
> I would be tempted to edit the CV post to include this, that the subject thinks he has taken the high road because he is being 'honest' about his feelings, i.e., making no secret of his infidelity.


Exactly what my Ex did, well, except I'm pretty sure the cheating had already started by the time she gave me the speech.


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> I'm at the airport so thought I'd check in one more time, not sure how much I'll be online I the next week. But, thought you'd all appreciate the latest email, apparently he is going to sue me for defamation of character! :rofl:


Reply:
"Awesome! I've been dying to submit all the evidence I have of your cheating to SOMEplace. I appreciate the opportunity!"


----------



## turnera

3putt said:


> Did you realize her CV page has been taken down?


I thought only hio could do that?


----------



## 3putt

turnera said:


> I thought only hio could do that?


Or an admin.


----------



## Affaircare

hurtinginohio said:


> I'm at the airport so thought I'd check in one more time, not sure how much I'll be online I the next week. But, thought you'd all appreciate the latest email, apparently he is going to sue me for defamation of character! :rofl:


It is not "defamation of character" in the legal sense, if you are telling the truth. If you were lying--and if the lie then caused some sort of provable harm (like emotional distress or getting fired) he might have a case. 

But if you told the truth (which you did) and that truth cased some sort of harm well that's his tough luck! Not a legal case!


----------



## GusPolinski

3putt said:


> Did you realize her CV page has been taken down?





turnera said:


> I thought only hio could do that?





3putt said:


> Or an admin.


Hmm. Interesting.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I wonder if it's time for this thread to move to Private?


----------



## Abc123wife

3putt said:


> Did you realize her CV page has been taken down?


His is gone too. I wonder how that happened.


----------



## Squeakr

There is a service that claims they can get the postings removed or you don't pay. I think when they are in the litigation process they are temporarily pulled until the process is completed. Although I am not sure on this.


----------



## turnera

Obviously, she caved. We warned her what would happen, that they'd pressure her to take them down. Most who post on CV get too scared when they get the heat. Or they let their lawyer talk them into it.


----------



## 3putt

Abc123wife said:


> His is gone too. I wonder how that happened.


It's too fast for an admin to have taken it down. I've heard that sometimes, after the initial posting, it will disappear for a short time for whatever reason, then pop back up. Hopefully that's the case here.

Or, HIO took it down herself.


----------



## ButtPunch

I hope she didn't take it down.


----------



## GusPolinski

turnera said:


> Obviously, she caved. We warned her what would happen, that they'd pressure her to take them down. Most who post on CV get too scared when they get the heat. Or they let their lawyer talk them into it.


OP is on a plane right now, right? Or was that earlier today...?


----------



## 3putt

Squeakr said:


> There is a service that claims they can get the postings removed or you don't pay. I think when they are in the litigation process they are temporarily pulled until the process is completed. Although I am not sure on this.


This is probably what you're talking about:

Cheaterville Removal | RemoveMyName.com Online Reputation Management Services

Here's the key though:

Once we win the case and we are awarded the removal we are allowed 2 complimentary retaliatory post removals which means you do not pay as we have our legal team notify the site that it is the same person re-posting the information on the case we already won. *In our experience we have also noticed that once the author or creator of the post is made aware that a legal team is demanding proof to substantiate the post we have noticed that in some cases they get scared and remove themselves immediately or clam up and do not reply or re post in fear of litigation.*

If folks would quit posting on CV anonymously and back up their claims with proof, then companies like these (and smoke blowing attys) wouldn't have a leg to stand on. There's no defense against the truth.


----------



## Chaparral

Can anyone Google his name? People outed on CV are picked up by other sites too.


----------



## GusPolinski

3putt said:


> This is probably what you're talking about:
> 
> Cheaterville Removal | RemoveMyName.com Online Reputation Management Services
> 
> Here's the key though:
> 
> Once we win the case and we are awarded the removal we are allowed 2 complimentary retaliatory post removals which means you do not pay as we have our legal team notify the site that it is the same person re-posting the information on the case we already won. *In our experience we have also noticed that once the author or creator of the post is made aware that a legal team is demanding proof to substantiate the post we have noticed that in some cases they get scared and remove themselves immediately or clam up and do not reply or re post in fear of litigation.*
> 
> If folks would quit posting on CV anonymously and back up their claims with proof, then companies like these (and smoke blowing attys) wouldn't have a leg to stand on. There's no defense against the truth.


Not sure if you saw the posts, but OP did include proof by way of screenshots of texts, archived texts, etc.


----------



## GusPolinski

Chaparral said:


> *Can anyone Google his name?* People outed on CV are picked up by other sites too.


Just did. The link to the CV entry is the 5th link from the top.


----------



## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> Not sure if you saw the posts, but OP did include proof by way of screenshots of texts, archived texts, etc.


Yeah, I know hio did, but I was referring to people in general.

And that fact the she did provide proof, with more in her back pocket to even further substantiate her claims, makes this all the more a head scratcher.


----------



## Nucking Futs

3putt said:


> Yeah, I know hio did, but I was referring to people in general.
> 
> And that fact the she did provide proof, with more in her back pocket to even further substantiate her claims, makes this all the more a head scratcher.


Yep. If she removed it with the proof she has it's either a matter of falling for a bluff or having a real threat of violence that she's taking seriously.


----------



## 3putt

Nucking Futs said:


> Yep. If she removed it with the proof she has it's either a matter of falling for a bluff or having a real threat of violence that she's taking seriously.


Hopefully she'll check in soon and enlighten us.


----------



## GusPolinski

3putt said:


> Hopefully she'll check in soon and enlighten us.


Word.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Sorry finally able to check in. I didn't take them down, but did make them "not visible" for now. I'm gone for 9 days & he still has a key to my house. From his emails yesterday I was truly concerned about what he might do. They will be visible again as soon as I get home. And yes, everything I've said/posted is 100% true, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

And a poster sent me the link to the OW's divorce filing so I guess her H is fully aware of what's been going on...


----------



## Mr.Fisty

In a way, I cannot wait for them to be in a real relationship. When the magical feelings all go away, they will have the reality of each other only. I do not think that either of them know that they are simply infatuated, and what they are feeling is the brain hormonally drugging them.

What other issues they have, they will bring with each other, along with higher expectations to make the other happy. Plus, if even one of them is lacking in communication skills, the whole thing will fall apart sooner than it should. I remember you mentioning that your husband was not that great of a communicator. As they get less and less of a dopamine rush for each other, the romantic feelings will go to a normal level or simply fade away. What is mostly sustaining them is the magical feelings at the moment. Still, there are some affair partners that do make it, but from the sound of this one, it is less likely. It sounds like they both are more of an escape for each other, and judging from his attitude, and possibly her's as well, when it blows up, it will really blow up. They are probably burning a lot of bridges on their way out, and I say let them live in the scorch earth that they created. The more stress you and the people around you add, the more they will destroy around them to be together. Right now, their addiction for each other is not allowing them to take future consequences into account.


----------



## Chaparral

"Some affair partners do make it"

According to infidelity statistics 3 out of 100 make it. Only 10% make it past 3 years.


----------



## thenub

I'm sure they'll pray the unicorns start sh!itting out money to pay for two divorces. The financial burden will have them at each other's throats in no time. 
Popcorn anyone??


----------



## KingwoodKev

Chaparral said:


> "Some affair partners do make it"
> 
> According to infidelity statistics 3 out of 100 make it. Only 10% make it past 3 years.


Because each of them realize they're with a liar and cheater. People who go together by cheating on others know they can never trust each other fully and that takes its toll.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yeah, we will see just how into him she is when he's giving me half his salary & paying off debts...what a catch!


----------



## yeah_right

Wait until she realizes she gets to help raise another kid. Hers just left the nest and she thinks she's free as a bird.


----------



## micawber

HIO, How was the cruise? Hopefully you can now see a time where you can change your userid from "hurting" to "healing" in Ohio.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks, the cruise was great, I enjoyed spending time with my daughters and escaping reality.

To be honest though, today was a crappy day. Got home around 10 last night and I'm still totally exhausted. Between the weather, coming home from vacation, all the work that is piled up for me, a head cold and dealing with an impending divorce, I'm feeling very overwhelmed. I came back to some emails from him regarding attorneys and finances, and it just deflated my mood. I'm to the point where I really despise him and wish it was all just over already. I wish I'd never have to see or communicate with him ever again.

I should probably move over to the divorce forum, because although I'm still reeling from his infidelity and trying to deal with the loss of my secure family unit, there is no chance of reconciliation.

I do thank all of you who have helped me and stuck with me through all this bull$hit.


----------



## farsidejunky

Keep your chin up. Better days lie ahead.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Do not focus on the totality of what you have to accomplish. Break everything down to priority and into manageable pieces. Export responsibilities wherever you can. Let your daughters take care of more household chores. Let them cook and clean after themselves. It is okay to ask friends for help during this time.

AS for dealing with him, less is best. He is no longer your husband, and just your ex. As for exposure, wait until after the divorce is settle, and finances and custody is all agreed on. You do not want to drag out this divorce, and waste more resources. Your protecting the welfare of your family first. After the divorce, expose all you want, and they cannot do a thing after that. It is not defamation when evidence proves it as such. they would have no case. In the mean time be neutral. Put on an act for him, and show him nothing. Your pretending to play nice for now.


----------



## thenub

I'm glad your vacation was good. You needed a bit of a break. 
Stay strong


----------



## TheGoodGuy

HIO how are you holding up?


----------



## hurtinginohio

I'm doing good, I've made the mental shift that except for legal reasons, he is my EX husband. Now it's just getting through the legality of divorce, selling the house, etc. 

I had a date last night too which was a great ego boost...


----------



## thenub

Awesome news on the date!!! Just make sure you have re-calibrated your picker


----------



## Mr.Fisty

We tend to be our worse enemy at times. We over think and find excuses not to do things, when sometimes just jumping in is the best solution. Not saying no thought should be involved, but we tend to think of only the cons, and not the pros that lead to our in-actions.

Like your divorce. It may seem daunting, and it is not a task you want to take on, but it is something that needs to be done.

Ohio is a no fault state, and you dating does not seem like it will play a role in the divorce. Still, always best to get advice from a lawyer.

Just have fun, and take the time to discover yourself. You have changed, and time to figure out what the current you is looking for. Oh, you go girlfriend!


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yes, both my attorney and my therapist said it's ok to date, that I need to do whatever I need to to take care of myself. My attorney said she didn't care if I had orgies as long as my daughter wasn't home, ha!

The ups and downs are really rough, I start feeling better and looking ahead, then bam, something triggers and I remember the betrayal all over again. I had a dream about him and her last night so I woke up feeling pretty rough today.


----------



## Openminded

The ups and downs can go on for a very long time. Knowing they will happen helps deal with them when they do. 

You've done a great job!!


----------



## farsidejunky

How are you holding up, HIO?


----------



## hurtinginohio

farsidejunky said:


> How are you holding up, HIO?


Hey, just saw this sorry! I haven't been around much the last week or so, I guess spending too much time here can be depressing. No offense to anyone, we're all in the same boat or have been at one time. I still have ups and downs, I'm having a hard time dealing with the fact that he could leave our family so quickly and so coldly to pursue a life with another woman. When I've expressed to him how hurt and angry I still am, he basically told me to get over it and deal with it, this was the new reality and I needed to accept it. It's only been since Nov. (that I was made aware of it), so it's all still pretty fresh and raw to me. Valentine's Day SUCKED! He had her at his new apt. all weekend, 2 miles from my house and I felt captive at home all weekend because there is no way I could handle seeing them out together anywhere. I'm over HIM, as in I don't want him back, even if he'd want to, but I'm not over what did to me and to our family and the fact that he seems to have no remorse whatsoever. So long story short, I don't know how I am...

Sorry for rambling on, but you did ask!


----------



## jld

So she has left her husband?


----------



## hurtinginohio

jld said:


> So she has left her husband?


Yes, they have filed for divorce. Mine is pushing for a dissolution asap because I'm pretty sure these two want to get married right away. He is taking her out of state next month to meet his parents already...it blows my mind how 2 people in their 40's are acting this way.

I still have not heard one word from his parents, nothing to check up to see how I'm coping. Almost 15 years as part of that family and now I don't even exist. DD has not been wanting to spend much time at his apt., hasn't overnight until this past week. I guess his mother sent him (a 41 year old man) a $200 Target gift card so he could take her to pick out things for her room there in order to get her to want to spend more time with him. Total manipulation on both their parts!


----------



## jld

Wow. They really moved quickly.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Yep, but then again, they were "in love" before he even moved out of our house. It's "fate" you know...


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> I still have not heard one word from his parents, nothing to check up to see how I'm coping. Almost 15 years as part of that family and now I don't even exist.


IDK, if it was me, I'd be sending that exact message. "It's so sad that you have completely disowned me and your grandchild because your son chose to cheat on me. I guess it shows where he got his (lack of) character."


----------



## KingwoodKev

hurtinginohio said:


> Yep, but then again, they were "in love" before he even moved out of our house. It's "fate" you know...


You know, I know it's probably not the "right" thing to do, but I couldn't help myself. I'd have to plant a seed in their brains by saying:

"Both of you lied and cheated because you weren't happy. ALL relationships have up's and down's. I'd hate to live like you two are going to have to knowing that each of you is very capable of lying and cheating."

Plant that little seed and I promise you it'll grow. Is it the "cool" thing to do? Nope. Would it be fun and personally fulfilling to do? Oh yeah.


----------



## jld

turnera said:


> IDK, if it was me, I'd be sending that exact message. "It's so sad that you have completely disowned me and your grandchild because your son chose to cheat on me. I guess it shows where he got his (lack of) character."


Would you _really_ say that, Turnera?


----------



## Amplexor

hurtinginohio said:


> Yep, but then again, they were "in love" before he even moved out of our house. It's "fate" you know...


----------



## hurtinginohio

O trust me, I have written them off as have my 2 older daughters. They only saw their only grandchild a few times a year, now it will be even less. They last saw her July 4th last year. Of course her father would rather take his new girlfriend out there over her spring break (works at a school) than take his daughter. 

I have never seen such an enabler as his mother.


----------



## GusPolinski

hurtinginohio said:


> Yes, they have filed for divorce. Mine is pushing for a dissolution asap because I'm pretty sure these two want to get married right away. He is taking her out of state next month to meet his parents already...it blows my mind how 2 people in their 40's are acting this way.
> 
> I still have not heard one word from his parents, nothing to check up to see how I'm coping. Almost 15 years as part of that family and now I don't even exist. DD has not been wanting to spend much time at his apt., hasn't overnight until this past week. I guess his mother sent him (a 41 year old man) a $200 Target gift card so he could take her to pick out things for her room there in order to get her to want to spend more time with him. Total manipulation on both their parts!


Use the fog against him. Draw up a list of terms that is VERY favorable to you and then dangle the list in front of him like a carrot.

Have you retained a lawyer yet? Sorry, haven't read up on your thread in a while.


----------



## KingwoodKev

GusPolinski said:


> Use the fog against him. Draw up a list of terms that is VERY favorable to you and then dangle the list in front of him like a carrot.
> 
> Have you retained a lawyer yet? Sorry, haven't read up on your thread in a while.


Solid advice my man. If he's in such a hurry to run off with a adulteress then he'll sign just about anything. That shiny new car smells awful good and the salesman is setting him up for the slaughter.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Tell him you will give him the divorce as long as the terms are fair. They roughly have a 5 percent chance of making things work. Both children on her side and your daughter will reject the marriage, adding more stress to their reality.

Both are in the infatuation stage and don't even know it. Since they are older, they are more set in their ways, and while the feel good chemicals last, they will keep making irrational decisions.

There is no point in talking to him. Your in the way of his addiction, his obsession. He is not going to acknowledge the hurt that you and your daughter are going through, because the guilt would bring him more to his senses. I say, let it blow up in his face, and you should not warn him, and he would not listen anyways.

They both believe that as long as they are together, things will work out. They are both bringing their dysfunction to their new relationship. It will not surface until the infatuation stage ends, and the obsessive behavior becomes their normal behavior. They both are going in with extremely high expectation, expecting the other to be perfect for them, and love will conquer all attitude. Pretty much a fantasy love story, but reality is a cold place. When things slow down, and they see each other for the flawed people that they are, they cannot escape the reality of what they have done.

You will hurt for a while, because you did once love him. When people marry, they have the intention of forever, but no one has the hindsight to know what will play out. You had all these expectations in life, and now your figuring how to set a new course. Every ending is sad, because there was some good mixed with the bad, but reality is something you adapt to, even though you wish to will it otherwise.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hurtinginohio said:


> Hey, just saw this sorry! I haven't been around much the last week or so, I guess spending too much time here can be depressing. No offense to anyone, we're all in the same boat or have been at one time. I still have ups and downs, I'm having a hard time dealing with the fact that he could leave our family so quickly and so coldly to pursue a life with another woman. When *I've expressed to him how hurt and angry I still am*, he basically told me to get over it and deal with it, this was the new reality and I needed to accept it. It's only been since Nov. (that I was made aware of it), so it's all still pretty fresh and raw to me. Valentine's Day SUCKED! He had her at his new apt. all weekend, 2 miles from my house and I felt captive at home all weekend because there is no way I could handle seeing them out together anywhere. I'm over HIM, as in I don't want him back, even if he'd want to, but I'm not over what did to me and to our family and the fact that he seems to have no remorse whatsoever. So long story short, I don't know how I am...
> 
> Sorry for rambling on, but you did ask!


In a way you were searching for empathy...

"don't you still care on some level?"

but for him to admit that he would have to face pain... he chooses anger instead and pushes you away to keep you from making him think and facing reality and that pain that WILL eventually find him.


----------



## hurtinginohio

I think it's finally sinking in for him that everything is NOT going as neat and tidy as what he had planned in his little spreadsheet. He's finding out just how costly all of this is, and gets upset at ME when things aren't working out the way HE had planned. It's almost amusing, his sense of entitlement, thinking he can walk out on us then turn around and ask me for household goods because it's too expensive to buy them again. Tough sh!t sherlock! Reality would hit even harder/sooner if not for his mommy giving him money and encouraging his life choices.


----------



## GusPolinski

hurtinginohio said:


> I think it's finally sinking in for him that everything is NOT going as neat and tidy as what he had planned in his little spreadsheet. He's finding out just how costly all of this is, and gets upset at ME when things aren't working out the way HE had planned. It's almost amusing, his sense of entitlement, thinking he can walk out on us then turn around and ask me for household goods because it's too expensive to buy them again. Tough sh!t sherlock! Reality would hit even harder/sooner if not for his mommy giving him money and encouraging his life choices.


LOL. He's in landscaping (or scapegoating... LOL), right? Tell him like my parents used to tell me...

"If you want extra money, grab the mower and cut the neighbors' lawns."

:lol: :rofl:


----------



## hurtinginohio

right, he acts like I should be understanding of the fact that it's a hardship on him to pay both the mortgage and his rent, not to mention gas for the 6 hour trip each way for a booty call.


----------



## KingwoodKev

Blossom Leigh said:


> In a way you were searching for empathy...
> 
> "don't you still care on some level?"
> 
> but for him to admit that he would have to face pain... he chooses anger instead and pushes you away to keep you from making him think and facing reality and that pain that WILL eventually find him.


I know this is the BS in me speaking and I know it's a negative thing to say but when this pain does catch up to him I hope it literally crushes his very soul. I really do. I hope it ruins his miserable little snake life. 

Don't worry, I'll tell our next therapist I said this and apologize for it.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Don't apologize, I have the very same wish!  I hope he gets to spend many, many nights alone in his apartment sitting on his nasty second-hand sofa eating ramen noodles.


----------



## GusPolinski

KingwoodKev said:


> I know this is the BS in me speaking and I know it's a negative thing to say but when this pain does catch up to him I hope it literally crushes his very soul. I really do. I hope it ruins his miserable little snake life.
> 
> Don't worry, I'll tell our next therapist I said this and apologize for it.


Kev! That's 50 "Hail Mary's" *AND* 50 "Our Father's" for you!!!


----------



## jld

hurtinginohio said:


> right, he acts like I should be understanding of the fact that it's a hardship on him to pay both the mortgage and his rent, not to mention gas for the 6 hour trip each way for a booty call.


 What a guy.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Y'all are cracking me up...


----------



## Openminded

Reality may be setting in for him and the infatuation fog may be lifting just a little. Money issues might spoil his little love-fest. 

Sometimes it's a situation like this -- can't live as he thought because he didn't consider how much money he would need -- that will eventually send a WS back home. Think about what your reaction would be -- just in case. 

Better to plan ahead for every possibility than be caught off-guard.


----------



## Nucking Futs

KingwoodKev said:


> I know this is the BS in me speaking and I know it's a negative thing to say but when this pain does catch up to him I hope it literally crushes his very soul. I really do. I hope it ruins his miserable little snake life.
> 
> Don't worry, I'll tell our next therapist I said this and apologize for it.


I'm confused. You said "it's a negative thing to say" but then didn't say anything negative. :scratchhead:


----------



## hurtinginohio

Openminded said:


> Reality may be setting in for him and the infatuation fog may be lifting just a little. Money issues might spoil his little love-fest.
> 
> Sometimes it's a situation like this -- can't live as he thought because he didn't consider how much money he would need -- that will eventually send a WS back home. Think about what your reaction would be -- just in case.
> 
> Better to plan ahead for every possibility than be caught off-guard.


O, he made it very clear he would never, ever be returning to the marriage, that I was delusional for ever thinking that.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I heard much the same from my ex who walked away. WS say lots of different things. Be prepared for the Actions. Maybe he thinks if shows up to your doorstep, hat in hands, things didn't work out with OW and he now sees what he lost, he can come running back and you'll give him some time to fix everything.. Long enough for you to fix his financial woas and time for him to plan the exit better this time.. Seriously crazy things will run through his head. You have to be prepared for how you'll deal with it.


----------



## alte Dame

What I've seen happen in cases like this - where the cheaters destroy two families to be together and have to live with the social stigma and loss of respect of children and family - is that pride can make them stay together, even if they're miserable. They wind up living unhappily ever after to avoid admitting to anyone that the wreckage they left wasn't really worth what they found in each other (which turned out to be a bitter disappointment).


----------



## GusPolinski

500 bucks says she's cheating on him within 6 months.

A year tops.


----------



## hurtinginohio

GusPolinski said:


> 500 bucks says she's cheating on him within 6 months.
> 
> A year tops.


I think within a few months her husband won't be looking so bad to her...mine sure won't have a lot to offer her.


----------



## Nucking Futs

alte Dame said:


> What I've seen happen in cases like this - where the cheaters destroy two families to be together and have to live with the social stigma and loss of respect of children and family - is that pride can make them stay together, even if they're miserable. They wind up living unhappily ever after to avoid admitting to anyone that the wreckage they left wasn't really worth what they found in each other (which turned out to be a bitter disappointment).


A just reward.


----------



## yeah_right

The OW lives in another state. Is she planning to leave her kids and school job to sell Advocare with her new "soul mate" or is WH moving to her state?

If I recall, OWH is her high school sweetheart. She's going to have way too many memories of him in her head for WS's liking.

Yep, I'd say it's a recipe for disaster. Good.


----------



## hurtinginohio

yeah_right said:


> The OW lives in another state. Is she planning to leave her kids and school job to sell Advocare with her new "soul mate" or is WH moving to her state?
> 
> If I recall, OWH is her high school sweetheart. She's going to have way too many memories of him in her head for WS's liking.
> 
> Yep, I'd say it's a recipe for disaster. Good.


That's what I'm wondering, is he going to move 6 hours away from our daughter in order to live with her? Or is she going to leave everything behind there and join him in his crappy apartment here? This long distance thing is going to get old real quick...


----------



## KingwoodKev

Nucking Futs said:


> I'm confused. You said "it's a negative thing to say" but then didn't say anything negative. :scratchhead:


I keep being told it's unhealthy for me to express my anger in this way. I don't know. It feels pretty good sometimes.


----------



## Nucking Futs

KingwoodKev said:


> I keep being told it's unhealthy for me to express my anger in this way. I don't know. It feels pretty good sometimes.


Well, that's true, it's unhealthy to express your anger. You should keep it inside where it can fester. Yeah, that's the ticket!


----------



## KingwoodKev

Nucking Futs said:


> Well, that's true, it's unhealthy to express your anger. You should keep it inside where it can fester. Yeah, that's the ticket!


You know what I mean. When I say I'd like to cave in the skulls of lying cheating snakes I'm told that's unhealthy. When I say I want to see cheaters live's ruined and for them to live in eternal suffering I'm told that's too negative. It's worse now because I'm forgiving my wife but this whole thing has made me despise cheaters and cheating so severely I've thought about starting a side business to help people that can't afford normal PI's to spy on their cheating spouses and catch them red-handed. The thought of contributing to the cause of exposing cheaters sounds very spiritually rewarding to me.


----------



## hurtinginohio

KingwoodKev said:


> You know what I mean. When I say I'd like to cave in the skulls of lying cheating snakes I'm told that's unhealthy. When I say I want to see cheaters live's ruined and for them to live in eternal suffering I'm told that's too negative. It's worse now because I'm forgiving my wife but this whole thing has made me despise cheaters and cheating so severely I've thought about starting a side business to help people that can't afford normal PI's to spy on their cheating spouses and catch them red-handed. The thought of contributing to the cause of exposing cheaters sounds very spiritually rewarding to me.


I agree! My detective skills have certainly been sharpened through this ordeal, and if I can ever help anyone else in this situation I will!


----------



## GusPolinski

KingwoodKev said:


> ...I've thought about starting a side business to help people that can't afford normal PI's to spy on their cheating spouses and catch them red-handed. The thought of contributing to the cause of exposing cheaters sounds very spiritually rewarding to me.


I've considered it. Hell, even my wife told me that I should.

Pretty sure that weightlifter has considered it as well.


----------



## KingwoodKev

hurtinginohio said:


> I agree! My detective skills have certainly been sharpened through this ordeal, and if I can ever help anyone else in this situation I will!


I might do that. I'm tinkering with the idea of putting together a team of BS's, and yes even some former WS's, to help investigate potential cheating online. PI's are really expensive and a lot of them aren't that good in this all-digital age. I wouldn't actually physically follow or confront cheaters but I will be happy to help anyone do online intel work. I see a lot of people here that aren't as tech savvy as their cheating spouse and they can't keep an eye on them. I'd love to help them do that for very little, if any, cost. I'd consider it a community service. Something like cheaterville but not passive like they were. We would actively investigate and expose the cheater.


----------



## KingwoodKev

GusPolinski said:


> I've considered it. Hell, even my wife told me that I should.
> 
> Pretty sure that weightlifter has considered it as well.


I'm not looking to make a profit. If the BS can afford to donate to the cause that would be appreciated. I'd probably go to crowd sourcing and would apply every penny raised towards helping people catch their cheaters. I'll also be happy not only to catch them but to expose them to the entire planet. If they have a job every single person they work with will know. Every family member will know. If they go to church everyone there will know. Everyone in their hometown will know. As for OM or OW, same deal. Everyone in their lives will know. Everyone.

All almost free of charge. Free of charge if WS has the only income and BS has nothing.


----------



## Mr Blunt

HurtinginOhio

These two cheaters will probably tell you that trust is the foundation of marriage (True). 
However, you have two cheaters that have violated marriage trust to the max.

Without a high degree of trust, if one is not out banging another person with in a year like Gus predicted then that marriage will be a very fragile one. In fact, I bet they will have paranoia about each other around opposite sex, suspicions often, and probably a good deal of knots in the stomach along with good amount of diarrhea from time to time.

You know what I often see as the true story of the life of cheaters? After they are together for a good while and have to share the reality of life, instead of the fog and their teen-age view of relationships, they wind up very unfulfilled or worse. However, nothing will deter Romeo and Juliet as they walk through the grass that is green on the other side until they fall into the cesspool of shyt under the green grass.

All you have to do, to know that is true, is read some of the sob stories here at TAM by those people that finally came out of the fog and tell their tragic stories.

Do not spend to much time on them but instead make your life much better than when you were with your cheater. The Karma bus is coming for them you just have to be patient. You being better is the best healer and equalizer.


----------



## GusPolinski

KingwoodKev said:


> I'm not looking to make a profit. If the BS can afford to donate to the cause that would be appreciated. I'd probably go to crowd sourcing and would apply every penny raised towards helping people catch their cheaters. I'll also be happy not only to catch them but to expose them to the entire planet. If they have a job every single person they work with will know. Every family member will know. If they go to church everyone there will know. Everyone in their hometown will know. As for OM or OW, same deal. Everyone in their lives will know. Everyone.
> 
> All almost free of charge. Free of charge if WS has the only income and BS has nothing.


Eh... leave exposure to the BS. Share knowledge, help w/ logistics, shine the light on the truth.

But leave exposure to the BS. After all, each of us is entitled to embrace what remains of our lives and/or marriage post-discovery w/ as much dignity and integrity as possible.


----------



## KingwoodKev

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... leave exposure to the BS. Share knowledge, help w/ logistics, shine the light on the truth.
> 
> But leave exposure to the BS. After all, each of us is entitled to embrace what remains of our lives and/or marriage post-discovery w/ as much dignity and integrity as possible.


I'd leave all decisions to the BS. If they didn't have the strength to expose WS but wanted it done, I'd be happy to do it. I think we need more services like this.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Count me in Kingwood.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Update: Life is hell right now. Just found out he's moving her from Indiana to his apartment, 2 miles from my house. WTF?? I'm supposed to be ok with that?? I told him if that happens, DD and I will be moving away, I will NOT live near them and he had the balls to accuse ME of disrupting her life?! OMG what an entitled d-bag!


----------



## yeah_right

I can't recall what stage you're in of the divorce, but it might be wise to contact your attorney. You want to make sure he's not using shared finances to fund the move.

I still have little faith in this relationship lasting for long. These two have no sense of reality.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Very beginning stages, still working on gathering all the financial statements and stuff.

He literally met this woman for the first time in Dec., but is willing to risk severing his relationship with his children for her, but of course try to blame me in order to justify his actions.


----------



## yeah_right

He has already confirmed how juvenile and mentally deluded he is. At this point, you have to stop wasting your time pondering how dumb he is and focus on protecting yourself.


----------



## Openminded

He's deep in the fog of infatuation. I'm surprised he hasn't moved her there sooner since he has introduced her to his parents and apparently plans a life with her. But he doesn't really know her so living with her may make the fog go away sooner rather than later. At that point, he may decide he wants back in your life. Be prepared for that, just in case. Right now you're in limbo since you aren't yet divorced. Things will be better once that's done.


----------



## hurtinginohio

O no, I KNOW he will never attempt to come back. They are already planning to get married as soon as the ink is dry on our divorce papers. She is moving away from her friends and family to be with him...I just can't fathom it. Every time I think I'm healing and moving on, he pulls some crap like this and the pain starts all over again.


----------



## turnera

I hope you DO move far away.


----------



## jld

I know it's hard right now, but I think in time you may actually come to see this as a gift to you. He is not toying with you, not pretending anything about reconciliation. He's giving you a clean cut from the marriage.

I realize it's moving fast, and it seems hard. But the healing may end up being that much faster, too.


----------



## Q tip

does OW family & friends know who/what he is?

let them know he cheats everywhere he goes.. never to be trusted.

oh, and those genital herpes from the hooker rumors...


----------



## yeah_right

HIO - How are you doing?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Also hope she posts an update soon


----------



## GusPolinski

Hope you're doing well, HIO.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Hey, thanks for asking! It's been a crazy week! We have our temp custody/support hearing on Tuesday. I can't wait, the M-Fer hasn't paid me a penny in over 2 months and says he won't until he has an order telling him to. So, he's been wining and dining his lady friend all the while not paying any support for his daughter.

He was also spotted at a local basketball game last week with her, at a game where a lot of our daughter's friends were in attendance. Class act, eh? 

So all in all I'm doing ok, therapy has helped, ironically, my next appt also happens to be our 13th wedding anniversary :rofl: so I guess that's fitting. I feel like I'm over the hump of the horrible, sleepless night causing, excruciating pain, and am now just focused on screwing him to the wall and hoping this hits him so hard financially that ramen noodles will be a luxury.

As far as the other woman moving in with him, my attorney is asking for a no paramour clause so if he wants to have his daughter there, that woman cannot be there until after the divorce is final. That's going to piss him off! :smthumbup:


----------



## karole

Take him to the cleaners HIO!!


----------



## yeah_right

You sound so positive. That's great! We'll all be sending good thoughts for you on Tuesday. He needs to understand his new financial reality.


----------



## farsidejunky

Awesome, HIO. Stay strong.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks! The hearing is at 11, so it will be good to know I have my very own cheering section right here! 

Through all of this I've learned some very hard lessons, a major one is who I can count on and call a true friend. There have been some "friends" I've had to let go, but the ones I've kept, I've forged a very strong bond with.


----------



## karole

Will be thinking of you on Tuesday HIO! Please update us after the hearing. I hope your husband gets a rude awakening!!


----------



## farsidejunky

Please keep us posted.


----------



## alte Dame

I have a feeling that you will wind up personifying the saying, 'the best revenge is living well.'

I predict that you will move on to a fulfilling life and his new life will implode in the next few years. People like him and his OW leave such a path of destruction that when they are miserable with each other, they're too ashamed to admit it to anyone. It would be saying that everyone was right.

Anyway, HIO, I wish you the best. I'm in the chorus here who want you to grind him under your boot heel. Take no prisoners!


----------



## Mr.Fisty

It is time to open up your inner dominatrix, and crush him under your heels. LOL.

As your detaching, your learning more about him that you could not see before. Two months without lifting a finger to financially raise his own child, he was not that great of a guy and prize that was worth winning back.

All those sacrifices that the both of them made, will probably end up making both of them miserable. The cost was high, and if it does not work out, what was lost wouldn't have been worth it.

The odds are stacked against them, because of the added stress of how they came to be together. The relationship with their children will be strained. Plus, they have the added pressure of making it work which would not be there if they divorced and then dated again.

Their past and personal issues will be brought into their relationship. Once the high wears out, those flaws will come to the surface, and all the guilt and other emotions that was not factored will come to the forefront. The hormonal high that the both of them are going through is bypassing the logical part of their brain, and the decisions that they are making is according to those highs. The OW may lose primary custody of her children, and once again, once that high wears out, she may feel guilt that she is not seeing her children on a daily basis. There is more, but you get the picture.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Good stuff HIO.


----------



## Affaircare

This is TAM cheering for HIO on Tuesday-->


----------



## turnera

hurtinginohio said:


> Hey, thanks for asking! It's been a crazy week! We have our temp custody/support hearing on Tuesday. I can't wait, the M-Fer hasn't paid me a penny in over 2 months and says he won't until he has an order telling him to. So, he's been wining and dining his lady friend all the while not paying any support for his daughter.


You HAVE created a spreadsheet, right? One detailing every single expense covering his daughter's expenses? Because that spreadsheet is what you're going to give your lawyer so that he has to pony up 50% of those expenses at the end when you divide up any assets. Who cares if he's paying NOW. He will pay EVENTUALLY. And then you and your daughter can go to DisneyWorld with his catch-up money.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Turnera, yes I've been documenting everything! Not just financial, but also how often he's seen her since he moved out, etc.

Mr. Fisty, you're right, things are coming to light about his innate character that I didn't see before and he is not the person I would want to spend another day with, let alone the rest of my life. About the OW kids, they are both adults now, 18 & 21 I believe so she doesn't have to deal with the stress of custody, etc. which brings me to this point, what kind of mother would even want a "man" who not only abandons his child, but doesn't even support her or see her? I would NEVER want a man who would chose me over his children.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Just a quick update from our court hearing on Tuesday, it was pretty easy, they just granted me custody and set an amount he needs to pay. This is just temporary until we get all the financial stuff in order, so we go back on May 5. He looked very uncomfortable there which I found hilarious...I was totally at ease.


----------



## alte Dame

His plan was to tell you that he needed to leave the marriage to find his destiny. You, being the loving wife who only wanted him to be happy, would 'selflessly' let him go. (After all, what greater sign of love than to hand over the man you love to another woman to make him happy?) Then, he would secretly continue his relationship with his new soul mate. For her part, she would tell her BH the same story and get her divorce going. After a few months, they would start to appear in public as the new couple. The rejected spouses would wish them well. All the children would be happy. Life would be just as it should be.

And there would be no shame for him or her. No one would know that he cheated on his wife and children with a women online and left his family for someone he basically had never met.

If their plan had played out the way they wanted, the wider world wouldn't know what complete dumb*sses they are.

You didn't play along, HIO. Thank God for that. I think there is a social purpose to shame. He has to know how adolescent and stupid his behavior has been. As time goes on, his shame will probably get worse. His cross to bear.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Well, I'm having a crappy day so far and need to vent. Probably because I have PMS, but I'm just feeling so down today. I know I seemed like I was feeling positive lately, but sometimes the feelings of inadequacy just overwhelm me. There is so much stuff I need to take care of that all I want to do is just shut down. All the stuff with the house and having to move, etc., all choices that I didn't make but I'm left holding the bag. And it's so unfair that HE gets to live this happy carefree life and I'm left cleaning up all the mess. HE has someone to love and talk to and be with, etc. which I think makes my loneliness feel so much worse. And then he has his parents kissing his butt and enabling him when I feel like I have no support system at all...my family isn't around to help. I'm sorry to unload here, but I just need to get it out or I'll start crying at work. So far he hasn't had any repercussions for destroying our family, but I just feel like I keep sinking further and further down.


----------



## jld

It's hard right now, but it will not always be. And his life with her may not always be easy, either.

Keep putting one foot in front of the other. Just keep moving forward. Cry when you need to, and you are right, at work is probably not best. But when you can, release all the emotions.

When it is all over, in a few months, you will see lessons you have learned from this experience that you may feel you could not have learned any other way. Hard to imagine now, but you may eventually be glad for the experience.


----------



## karole

Ah, HIO, I'm so sorry you are having a down day, but you have to expect those on occasion. Your husband may have someone to love, but look who he got - not much of a prize. She's a cheating skank and he is a lying, child abandoning, marriage abandoning cheater himself, so, what do they really have when you think about it? Not much. Not the type of relationship that I would want.

You hang in there and do something good for yourself today.


----------



## hurtinginohio

Thanks!  I'm going to schedule a pedicure for tomorrow. Treat yoself!


----------



## alte Dame

I don't know how much you read here, but if you have some down time, try reading this thread, especially the follow-ups at the end. It is inspiring:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51949-wife-best-friend-having-least-ea.html


----------



## Openminded

D is (obviously) a very emotional process -- a lot of "two steps forward and one step back". You've done great (much better than most of us) but it's just a hard thing to go through. Especially with a STBX who seems to have it all right now. But the odds are excellent he'll crash eventually. By then you will have come through it all and moved on. He'll just be someone you thought you knew but didn't. And nothing about him will matter ever again.


----------



## yeah_right

How are you doing HIO? Hope all is well with you!


----------



## farsidejunky

Drive by check up, HIO...


----------

