# Separate Vacations Despite Qualms



## IwasBad_ButNowImGood (Apr 5, 2015)

My wife is in day three of a separate vacation of a week she is taking with her sister, cousin and my daughter. They are renting a house on Cape Cod. I need some advice 

Background: We have been married 18 years and the last three or four years have been very rocky. We started counseling in February but it hasn't done much good. She didn't so any of the homework and didn't engage much. She tells me she loves me but there are things she can't let go of and doesn't think we can make it back. We have been on a roller coaster for six months where she says she is willing to try reconciliation, then we have a fight about something and she says 'she's done' and wants a divorce. Next day we are back to trying. Sometimes she says "I don't want to lose you" then she says we have hurt each other too much to make it work.

Our trust in each other is pretty bad right now. We have both snooped on each other and neither really trusts we have each others best interest at heart right now.

Anyway, at the start of the reconciliation months ago she announced she was going on a girls trip with her sister and cousin and it was all arranged. Non-negotiable. I said how much I didn't like the idea - that we are in the middle of trouble and don't trust so now is a bad time. She said I need to just trust her - that I have known her for 18 years so I should know there is no hanky panky - especially with my daughter (age 10) going with. 

But in the last year she hasn;'t been acting like her old self - and I told her that. I told her it is understandable. Right now our feelings are different for each other than they were years ago. So this could open the door to who knows what. She got indiginant and mad as hell and is suing this as an example of my wanting to control her.

BTW, her sister and cousin hate me and have been encouraging her to leave me (they both have failed marriages - great role models.) besides hanky panky I told her that this could be a week of bile spewed about and will hurt us even more. She said they agreed to not talk about the marriage (yeah, right! Four women alone for a week not talking relationships?!?!) Again my concerns were dismissed and I was told this is an example of my trying to manipulate her by making her feel bad and isolating her from her family (I have said for YEARS we need to have her sister and cousin over for holidays. I even offered to pay airfare since we are well off and they are poor.)

Anyway, so off she went. She only told me the address a few days before hand, despite me asking for weeks. She says there is no phone but she has her cell. There is wifi and the first day she sent me a nice email. Then radio silence, though she found time to post pics to facebook.

I am pretty mad that my feeling were ignored and I was told over and over this is all normal and I am 'over the top' by feeling there is anything wrong. 

Now specifically - should I call her cell? If so I look like I am suspicious and controlling (she says). But she is my wife and I should expect communication right? 

As I typed this I just got email! I prodded her by email a few hours ago, so this is the response.

It is an okay email recounting some details of the day yesterday. It doesn't start off "Hi Sweetie!" or end in "Love from your Sweetie" like the previous email. Am I being overly suspicious? Overly sensitive? I do have overly-sensitive ways.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I think you're being unreasonable, especially since your 10 year old daughter is on this trip. I highly doubt anything nefarious is going on. And, if you are worried about your relationship being the topic of conversation, that can happen anywhere (i.e. through Facebook messaging). 

You shouldn't feel like you're bugging her if you call her, though, and I think she should call to chit-chat with you, but that's just my opinion.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Don't call. Respect her space. Likely this is part of the problem. If she wants to call she will.

Your actions regarding her trip sound controlling.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

IWasBad, I have read all of your past threads and have now caught up (sort of) on your situation. There is still a lot of info missing with regard to what you guys fight about but here are my initial thoughts:


Your wife has been building up to a split with you for some time now (at least since the beginning of the year).

First piece of evidence is the sly move to open her own checking account and deny you access to the statements (leave alone funds) now that she has re-entered the workplace, when all this time she was a SAHM and had access to the joint account you set up including credit cards etc.

The next is the "keep you dangling" but "not give you too much hope" approach she has taken to counselling etc. Scheduled sex maybe fine for you but nothing else she is doing should be fine with you. She thinks she is letting you down softly so that when the time is right, she will simply make her move with the support of the divorced wives club she hangs out with.

You may think that there is no one else but I would snoop and then snoop again - often workplace affairs are hard to catch but they can be caught with the right diligence. When she is sure that she can leave you and have all her needs fulfilled, she will.

She clearly has no respect for you or for what you want or say. This should be a real sign for you that worse things are on their way.

In her mind this marriage is over and she is going through the motions of some plan she has hatched up in her head.

Her "not being able to forgive the hurt" (whatever that hurt is, not sure) often means that it suits her to "not forget or forgive the hurt" which enables her (in her mind) to execute her plan without guilt.


You need to start protecting yourself and your finances/custodial rights. At the very least get some advice from a lawyer and start the divorce process. Have her served when you have confirmed some of what I have said above. You need to not march to her drumbeat but you should set the pace of what happens next.


Have some very definite actions in a list that she needs to take if she genuinely wants to try and make this work. At the moment you seem to be wasting time and money on that MC of yours.

Good luck and take care of yourself.


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## November (Nov 28, 2013)

I think you're not only totally reasonable, but should have put your foot down and said ABSOLUTELY NOT!

At this point in your troubled relationship you (and your wife) need to be working on healing and re creating the love and good times you once had. 

A vacation with your sister and cousin (who hate you) can do NO good, ESPECIALLY with your daughter along to develop some bad ideas, which I'm sure she will get and ear full of. This was a horrible idea. And you need to put space between your wife and the sister/cousin, as best you can. 

The vacation SHOULD have been with you, her and your daughter.

From what you say, she may have some interest with another man... or just want to get out in the playing field.... looking for something new. The roller coaster attitude and the fact that she is unwilling to REALLY work on fixing things suggests this. I hope I'm wrong. (however, that can be fixed, too, just harder).

You two need some serious talk about where you're going, and need to come up with a workable plan. (and there's lots of good online help). Read the 5 Love Languages to her, and digest it. Good start. Set some parameters. Sounds like fighting and arguing happens too often. Set some rules on arguing.... no yelling, no accusing, no back stabbing, and it things get bad, agree to stop right then, have a good hug and continue the next day when fresh so that each can work toward a solution. (you can find help articles on this site, as well as others). May a few agreements that you will NOT compromise on.... First, you always go to bed together and cuddle up with an "I love you" kiss... every night. Second, get up in the morning with a smile when you see her and a good morning kiss.

There's lots of other little things that can be done, but it will take both parties to make it work..... however, can easily be started by one. Make a strong effort that you are there for keeps, and will not give up on her. Try to always keep your comments and talks positive.

Good luck, you CAN do it.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Her lackluster, half-a$$ed approach to marriage counseling tells you all you need to know.

I completely agree with manfromlamancha... she is on her way out. So you need to get your ducks in a row. Open up your own bank account and move all of your earnings into that. If she handles the bills, YOU need to take over the ones that are normally paid out of your income. Set up an appointment with a lawyer and start making a case for yourself for custody, at least 50-50. Use this time while she is away to collect all necessary financial documents, insurance policies, tax records, etc.

If you sit back and wait, you will find yourself being served with divorce papers and she will have all the advantage.

No one is saying you have to go THROUGH with a divorce. But if you wait, you're gonna be blindsided.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

My wife takes trips with the kids for over a month at a time and sometimes talks sh!t about me to all her friends while away. Then when I am around her friends or talking to them on the phone I am always pleasant and they end up taking my side and fussing at my wife that I am not all that bad. 

So regardless of what you decide, it never hurts to mend friendships with your wife's friends and family. Then they will be the one's taking up your cause when your wife talks bad about you.

As for the bad stuff I do like being messy, fussing at things, and being boring sometimes, I am guilty. But this is all erased when I call my wife's sister and ask her if she knows an easy technique that will help me retouch the scratches on the dining table (she is good at that) and protect it as a surprise to the family as our little one is always making her upset by banging his fork into the table. Then you also just ask for some help in general and the next thing you know is you become the friends/family's secret pet project and hero!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I read your other threads, and I agree with manfromlamancha--I think that your wife is laying the groundwork to leave you, and you need to prepare yourself for that inevitability. She's not making any effort in MC, she's planning trips without you, she has set up her own accounts that you don't have access to. You need to get yourself ready, because it seems pretty obvious to me that she is planning for a life without you.

If she's going to leave you, she's going to leave you. You can't control it. She's going to do whats he wants. So you need to stop focusing on her, and focus on what you CAN control: focus on YOU.

It hasn't already been specifically mentioned in your other threads, although I saw some posters allude to it--you need to do the 180. I know you say that she hasn't cheated on you, but she is planning on walking away from you, and so this still applies:
https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/

You're already on the way to doing the 180, anyway, from what I've read in some of your other posts--you're taking better care of yourself physically. Go the full 180. If will help protect you from the coming sh!t storm. 

(And, in some cases, the 180 was enough to save the marriage. It might happen. But you don't do the 180 to save the marriage. You do the 180 to save YOU; if the marriage gets saved, it's a side effect, not the intention.)

Start NOW. Which means, in terms of this vacation with the ladies? Do NOT call her, do NOT text her, do NOT email her. If she wants to go on vacations without you, let her. She complains that you're too controlling--well, give up the control on this one. Let her do what she will. Go no contact until she gets back--you can minimally respond if she contacts you, but keep it short and sweet.


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## IwasBad_ButNowImGood (Apr 5, 2015)

Thanks for the help! Although we all may disagree it is a help to hear everyone's thoughts! Sometimes she's got me thinking I am crazy (gas-lighting?!)


>> She thinks she is letting you down softly so that when the time is right, she will simply make her move with the support of the divorced wives club she hangs out with.

This has certainly crossed my mind more than a few times.

>> You may think that there is no one else but I would snoop and then snoop again - often workplace affairs are hard to catch but they can be caught with the right diligence. When she is sure that she can leave you and have all her needs fulfilled, she will.

I did a LOT of snooping. More than I probably should have. I crossed even my own boundaries a little I think because of the anxiety. I heard her say to friends she "wished there was another man" and I heard two of her friends mentioning how they could fix her up with some folks they knew (infuriates me!!!!! how can I look these people in the eye?!!!) Her reaction seemed non-committal to those suggestions. If she is starting something it is only at work - there are no missing times, no lots of phone/IM traffic, etc. 

She HAS been buying new clothes lately, painting her toe nails (first time ever), whitening her teeth. When I discuss this and try and get her to see how I could be suspicious again she gets made and says I want to control her. She says I should know her better (despite lots of strange actions over the last year - direct lies I've caught her in for instance. And much more moodiness (even with the kids)) I get tired of my thoughts being wrong and 'over the top' and her being offended. She doesn't seem to have an understanding bone left anymore (looking back... I am not sure how much she HAS had understanding over the years...)




>> In her mind this marriage is over and she is going through the motions of some plan she has hatched up in her head. Her "not being able to forgive the hurt" (whatever that hurt is, not sure) often means that it suits her to "not forget or forgive the hurt" which enables her (in her mind) to execute her plan without guilt.

Again this has occurred to me a lot and I dwell on it. Here few ex-boyfriends have always not ended well and she has blocked them on social media and told me of all the hurt. She has an uncanny memory of every wrong they (and I!) have ever committed. It was astounding in therapy the things she would come up with from our relationship 18 years ago - like I made her late for work and that shows my lack of respect or that I threw her a surprise birthday party soon after we started going out but didn't invite enough of her friends (which I didn't have contact info for and really never met at that point in our first months dating!)
She has a real problem with admitting wrong - always has. She will admit wrong and say sorry on very little things but when it comes to relationship stuff - especially when I feel hurt - she says I am wrong in feeling the way I do and therefore she doesn't need to apologize or feel wrong!



>>At this point in your troubled relationship you (and your wife) need to be working on healing and re creating the love and good times you once had.

I know! And months ago she agreed to date nights every few weeks but so far we've had only two. The rest of the time she complains she doesn't have enough time with our kids or for herself. She has verbally said I come after the kids and her need for 'alone time'.


>> And you need to put space between your wife and the sister/cousin, as best you can.

God I wish I could. They all email each other like every day. My wife only tells her side and leaves out a lot of detail. As a consequence those family (and friends) now think I am a monster. When I confronted her once on that issue she said she was 'protecting herself' but wouldn't go into detail. 


>> From what you say, she may have some interest with another man... or just want to get out in the playing field.... looking for something new.

She says she is not, and doesn't want any man right now only her and the kids (I think this could be true... she is going through the change of life and a midlife crisis (said our councilor) 



>> Sounds like fighting and arguing happens too often. Set some rules on arguing.... no yelling, no accusing, no back stabbing, and it things get bad, agree to stop right then, have a good hug and continue the next day when fresh so that each can work toward a solution. (you can find help articles on this site, as well as others).

Actually, not very often anymore and our 'scheduled talks' (one hour 3x a week) about our list of issues goes amicably most of the time now. That was the help of the counseling. But when we get into the issues we disagree a lot and make no progress.


>> First, you always go to bed together and cuddle up with an "I love you" kiss... every night. Second, get up in the morning with a smile when you see her and a good morning kiss.

I wish! She goes to bed very early (9 or 10 pm) and gets up ungodly early (5am). We NEVER go to sleep together or wake up together like we used to. Any suggestions I've made to bend this have had her accuse me of being controlling and mentally abusive (her two favorite topics).


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

IwasBad_ButNowImGood said:


> They are renting a house on Cape Cod.


I'm available to serve the divorce summons over the weekend.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Like others have said prepare.
Transfer funds and set up your own account and see a lawyer.


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## November (Nov 28, 2013)

While I'll agree with some of the posters that you need to be prepared for the worst, it would be prudent to be cautious. 

You still have a chance... but there's work to do. I'd not give up, yet, as divorce is can be an extremely difficult time.

The idea of befriending the sister and cousin couldn't hurt, but be careful, you have to come on as being friendly, but could get them to realize the you're not all bad, and could possibly turn around and help you. Worth an effort. Right now, they are a HUGE negative to your wife.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Let her go, go dark and chill the hell right out. 

I don't think she's going to go cheat with her daughter and family in tow. 

I think it's a test to see if she can get some space. Don't validate what her family might be telling her by being the insecure guy. 

Let her wonder what you're up to. 

Don't contact her except about the kids. 

Have a giant smile on your face when she comes back. And then let her know about a boys trip you have planned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## November (Nov 28, 2013)

rio said:


> I have taken many vacations with just my kids and no husband. I've also done a couple with just myself or visiting a friend. The more hubby got involved the further it pushed me away. Finally, he agreed that we didn't need to Skype every night if the kids were with me. I left it open for the kids to decide if they wanted to call, but I did insist they at least call a couple of times. These have all happened over the past couple of years when I started disconnecting with my husband. I was actually a better person when I came back from them. It gave me some space and independence. I didn't need him to take the kids to Universal. I didn't need him to drive 1300 miles across the country. In the end, it helped both of us.
> 
> But, the difference with us was I didn't really care what he did because I was so done with him anyway. And, for me, I knew I wasn't going to do anything inappropriate.


''

With that attitude, why don't you pack your bags and bail. Give him the chance to find someone that cares and do what you want to do.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Am I wrong in thinking that SHE is running the 180 on him??? Going dark, doing things to improve herself, doing things on her own?

I agree with others that she's probably getting her ducks in a row, but if you were in a failing marriage and started the 180, wouldn't you do the same thing if the 180 failed to produce results? Just because she's a female doesn't mean she can't do this.

One other point... if the 10-year old daughter is with her, just from a parental perspective there should be daily communication. Period. Doesn't need to be lovey-dovey but there needs to be communication.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

marduk said:


> Let her go, go dark and chill the hell right out.
> 
> I don't think she's going to go cheat with her daughter and family in tow.
> 
> ...


THIS^^^
And read this!
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

IwasBad_ButNowImGood said:


> I did a LOT of snooping. More than I probably should have. I crossed even my own boundaries a little I think because of the anxiety. I heard her say to friends she "wished there was another man" and I heard two of her friends mentioning how they could fix her up with some folks they knew (infuriates me!!!!! how can I look these people in the eye?!!!) Her reaction seemed non-committal to those suggestions. If she is starting something it is only at work - there are no missing times, no lots of phone/IM traffic, etc.
> 
> She HAS been buying new clothes lately, painting her toe nails (first time ever), whitening her teeth. When I discuss this and try and get her to see how I could be suspicious again she gets made and says I want to control her. She says I should know her better (despite lots of strange actions over the last year - direct lies I've caught her in for instance. And much more moodiness (even with the kids)) I get tired of my thoughts being wrong and 'over the top' and her being offended. She doesn't seem to have an understanding bone left anymore (looking back... I am not sure how much she HAS had understanding over the years...)


She might not be having an affair right now, but it sure sounds like she is working her way up to it. It doesn't sound like she's trying to make herself more attractive for you, unfortunately.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> *Am I wrong in thinking that SHE is running the 180 on him??? Going dark, doing things to improve herself, doing things on her own?
> *
> I agree with others that she's probably getting her ducks in a row, but if you were in a failing marriage and started the 180, wouldn't you do the same thing if the 180 failed to produce results? Just because she's a female doesn't mean she can't do this.
> 
> One other point... if the 10-year old daughter is with her, just from a parental perspective there should be daily communication. Period. Doesn't need to be lovey-dovey but there needs to be communication.


Hmmm. Not a bad thought. But she has no reason to. He's the one that wants her to stay, He isn't threatening to leave. He wants to fix the marriage.

She's the one who seems determined to get out, who has threatened to leave in the past, who has asked him for a divorce in the past. So she has no reason to do the 180 on him.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Do not call her. Please don't. It will make you look insecure and desperate. Let her finish up her trip and DO NOT contact her unless there is an emergency with your kid. If your kid wants to call you, awesome! Go ahead and talk to her. But as of right now, your W is preparing to leave you. Chasing after her is only going to annoy her and push her out quicker. She's obviously mad and not over some things that have occurred in the marriage.

So, what you need to do is get your finances in order. Plan a trip for just yourself, away from your wife. Stop begging her to stay with you and trying to talk it out. It's obviously not working. Start going to the gym, take up a new hobby, just do whatever for yourself and leave her to her own devices. She's already taken some huge steps to walking right out the door, I'm not sure why you're doing anything less than that as well.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Find a couple of friends and plan a trip Las Vegas if you can for a long weekend.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Where did she go? Would there be somewhere she ould leave your daughter at a baby sitter? Talk to your daughter and see what she is doing? See if it sounds like they are leaving her to go out at night.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Not good at all. From what you describe she is plotting her way out. If she comes back at all I would suspect it would be with divorce papers. Were I you I would take this opportunity to pack and move out, take 1/2 the money and move it into another account, and hire a lawyer to fight for custody .


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

In my marriage, it was ok for my XW to take separate vacations. It wasnt ok for me to do the same. The most I got was a long weekend for continuing ED someplace close. In my experience, no good can come from separate vacations.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I kinda doubt an affair is current.
She is remodeling the goods tho. 
The right player comes along or she files first. Flip a coin.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Btw, an A level player can sense women like your wife from a hundred feet away.


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## November (Nov 28, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> Do not call her. Please don't. It will make you look insecure and desperate. Let her finish up her trip and DO NOT contact her unless there is an emergency with your kid. If your kid wants to call you, awesome! Go ahead and talk to her. But as of right now, your W is preparing to leave you. Chasing after her is only going to annoy her and push her out quicker. She's obviously mad and not over some things that have occurred in the marriage.
> 
> So, what you need to do is get your finances in order. Plan a trip for just yourself, away from your wife. Stop begging her to stay with you and trying to talk it out. It's obviously not working. Start going to the gym, take up a new hobby, just do whatever for yourself and leave her to her own devices. She's already taken some huge steps to walking right out the door, I'm not sure why you're doing anything less than that as well.


I'd disagree.
Any reasonable husband and wife would expect communication on a daily basis, regardless of where they are.... even on the other side of the world. Especially with the daughter on the trip, that absolutely NEEDS communication with daddy.

I'm still totally against the trip, especially under the circumstances.

The marriage isn't over, and I'd sure feel strongly about trying to reconcile things the best that one can do... and that does mean communication. 

There's nothing wrong about being prepared for the worst and that's prudent, but I'd still do everything I could to make this back into a loving marriage. It ain't over, yet (but does look like a challenge).

Once they both take a negative and fighting approach to things, it's hard to recover.


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## November (Nov 28, 2013)

rio said:


> This attitude was a long time coming. It was after years and years of no love, no sex and being ignored. It was actually therapeutic for me to realize I could do things on my own. We vacationed as family, too. I believe you replied to another one of my posts when I was about to throw in the towel and leave. But, we've decided to give it one last try. I'm committed to that right now so we'll see how it goes.


Well, best of luck to you.... Do whatever it takes... show him that he is really important to you and you are there to serve him. And you expect the same from him. There's ton's of good info out there on saving marriages. Best of luck, and keep us posted.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

November said:


> I'd disagree.
> Any reasonable husband and wife would expect communication on a daily basis, regardless of where they are.... even on the other side of the world. Especially with the daughter on the trip, that absolutely NEEDS communication with daddy.
> 
> I'm still totally against the trip, especially under the circumstances.
> ...


So what do you think he should do then? She doesn't want to talk to him, if she did - she would. She wants to be away from him. He can beg, plead, and cry for her to want him again, but that isn't going to make it happen. So, what is your suggestion given the information he's given here?


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## November (Nov 28, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> So what do you think he should do then? She doesn't want to talk to him, if she did - she would. She wants to be away from him. He can beg, plead, and cry for her to want him again, but that isn't going to make it happen. So, what is your suggestion given the information he's given here?


If it were me, I'd call every day.. say hi, how are you and can I say hi to my daughter..... maybe twice a day. 

I'd put the thought in her mind that I'm not ready to give up, regardless of how she feels. 

I would not plead or beg... I'd be polite with small talk, but absolutely, I would communicate. 

Heck, how often do people in real relationships communicate in a day? For any "reasonably close relationship", I'd bet that it would be several times a day. Certainly has been for me.... and sometimes 30 or 40 times.

However, I rarely took vacations trips apart from my SO, and the very few times we did, it worked well.... with LOTS of communication and how are you doing, and I miss you. 

Sure, the OP has a lot to get through, but if he sends the message that he doesn't give a shi* anymore, she will respond negatively to that, and will only put them further apart. 

Just my thoughts.....


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I feel for you OP - if the other adults on the trip dislike you that much, you're right to feel uneasy. I would be VERY uncomfortable if my husband went away with his parents and sister for the same reason. They dislike me intensely (without reason), so I wouldn't want my husband going. I feel so strongly about this that its actually a boundary for me. Hubby knows and understands this - he wouldn't want to go anyway, lol.

You have every right to ring daily to speak to your daughter. If your wife doesn't wish to talk to you that's fine, but she can't stop you talking to your daughter.

Get all your ducks in a row OP - get copies of all important paperwork and store them off site, meet with a lawyer to find out your rights. You don't have to act on anything, but knowledge is power.


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## IwasBad_ButNowImGood (Apr 5, 2015)

Thanks everyone for so many replies - even if some of the advice is contradictory. At least it tells me *I* am not crazy for having reservations about the trip and for being upset that I had no input.

Update on communication: She has sent an email most mornings and they are friendly but nothing about 'missing me' or what have you. From Facebook posting she and her cousin and sister have posted they are having a really great time. Again, sometimes I think I am crazy. At once I am glad she is having a good time - but it all the kinds of things *we* usually do together at a place we both love. So yea... besides the fear of this being a smokescreen for an affair, the fear of this being a 'hate husband' fest, the fear of my daughter being turned against me (like she did with my son - we had some interesting talks together this week!) I am also jealous she is having fun and I am miserable


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

So what is holding you back from having fun? Your words seem to be more about resentment then love......are you now the man she fell in love with? With out realizing it you are building walls and in the process becoming miserable....why do that for yourself......ask yourself who was the man she fell in love with all those many years ago.....you change her you can only change the man you are.....start with you....if she comes along great if she doesn't that is her lose but reconnect with your kids....


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## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Xenote said:


> So what is holding you back from having fun? Your words seem to be more about resentment then love......are you now the man she fell in love with? With out realizing it you are building walls and in the process becoming miserable....why do that for yourself......ask yourself who was the man she fell in love with all those many years ago.....you change her you can only change the man you are.....start with you....if she comes along great if she doesn't that is her lose but reconnect with your kids....



Agreed, but it's hard having fun when your marriage is teetering on disaster. Yes, he could improve himself. And, yes she could improve her self A LOT MORE. SHE HAS SOME SERIOUS ISSUES, that I hopes he can find a solution for.


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