# Walk away wife thoughts



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Do you believe the "walk-away-wife" or "mid-life" situation that leads to divorce is a phase that could be worked out if given the time, or is it a real feeling that most women are satisfied with for the rest of their life? I'm talking about women who divorce a man for no major reasons; he is a good father, good provider, there is no infidelity or abuse, etc., but she is just unhappy, or at least thinks she is unhappy, for whatever reason.

It happened to me, and i know it happens to other men. I know that people go through changes in their lives, and no doubt the woman is feeling unhappy at the time. But what about when she's 70 and retired or 90 and in the nursing home. Do they ever look back at a more mature age and realize he wasn't such a bad guy after all and wonder what their life would have been with him after their adventurous nature died down and other phases of life occur, especially if their post relationships were not so good?

Oh, and I know this happens to men too. I wonder if they wish they had stayed with their "good wife" after they get tired of buying Corvettes and dying their hair?


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't really know how to answer your question, but I can tell you what goes through my head. I have not left, but I dream of it, even though my H is a good guy and we've got two small kids at home and I truly don't have anything divorce - worthy to leave him for.

In my case, its a strong feeling of they would all be better off without me. My kids and my H are in really good places in their lives now, and I am so...not. I feel like an outcast and like I bring everyone down. I truly in my heart believe that the three of them would be better if I was not around to bring them down. I know I am suffering from depression/anxiety and probably a host of other things too but I really feel "unlovable " at this moment. I don't know if that is a sentiment shared by other walk away spouses.

Do I think the feelings will pass if I wait it out? Maybe...I am going to attempt to medicate myself out of it and see if that helps. But it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now. All I see are happy people and it solidifies my feelings of inadequacy, loneliness, isolation. The only relief I see for everyone involved is to leave. Would I regret it later? Maybe. But part of the depression (or whatever you want to label it as) is feeling that you deserve the pain and suffering...which makes it kind of hard to see regret. Regret implies that you love yourself enough to realize you could have been happy, and when you see no happiness in anything....past, present or future....you don't tend to have regrets.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

kag123 said:


> I don't really know how to answer your question, but I can tell you what goes through my head. I have not left, but I dream of it, even though my H is a good guy and we've got two small kids at home and I truly don't have anything divorce - worthy to leave him for.
> 
> In my case, its a strong feeling of they would all be better off without me. My kids and my H are in really good places in their lives now, and I am so...not. I feel like an outcast and like I bring everyone down. I truly in my heart believe that the three of them would be better if I was not around to bring them down. I know I am suffering from depression/anxiety and probably a host of other things too but I really feel "unlovable " at this moment. I don't know if that is a sentiment shared by other walk away spouses.
> 
> ...


You did a great job of describing your situation and thought process. I believe my x wife was depressed too, and this may have shed some insight to her way of thinking. I guess this helps answer my question too about it being a phase, or something is "wrong." I always believe something has to be affecting the way a person thinks outside the norm for the thoughts of leaving to occur if there are no major issues. Would you agree that if a person's thought process and feelings are normal(for lack of a better word), these thoughts of leaving and unhappiness probably wouldn't be happening?


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Well, I definitely don't think its "normal" for someone to create problems where there are none. A "normal" person would probably be able to see the good in everything they have and be thankful and content. Whereas someone like myself tends to feel worse when everything is seemingly at its best. Part of it is what I already mentioned above - swirling thoughts of I don't deserve this, and I only bring them down. There's also the thought that when things are at their best, the only place to go from there is down. Its maddening to feel like you are waiting for the fall from grace and it is almost more bearable to just cut and run so you can stop waiting around for what you feel is the inevitable. Like I said - I am fairly sure no one "normal" thinks this way. I can realize in myself these are diseased thought processes but that doesn't mean I feel I have the power to change it (at least not by myself).

An additional layer, at least for me, is that I can harbor these feelings for months and years at a time without anyone else around me really catching on. I tend not to show this side of me to other people because I feel these are ugly thoughts and again, hate bringing down other peoples happiness. On the rare occasion I have tried to be vulnerable with H and share some of this with him, I felt judged, dismissed and like he clearly could not grasp the depth of how much I struggle on a daily basis to keep myself together. And if you add in the pattern of this happening over and over - me holding in my feelings, me taking a chance to connect and share with H, H shutting me out and/or making me feel crazy, me shutting down again and holding it in until the next time I feel like I am going to explode months later - it often feels like the best solution is to leave and spare us both the trouble.

I can tell you that I have done this before in previous LT relationships and friendships...walked away. I am 5-6 years past my last "cut and run" experience and now feel like I can look back a little more objectively at those experiences. I sometimes feel that I could have handled myself better (been strong enough to explain to them why I was ending the friendship/relationship) but I do not have any desire to go back to them and still firmly feel that we are all better off apart. I also had the ability to watch their grieving process when I left - confusion (they had no idea it was coming, even though I thought about it for months before I did it), anger, sadness, trying to reconnect with me, then finally acceptance and walking away. Now I see them both as happy and content in their new lives, proof to me that despite the short term pain of what I did, they can and will be happy again and that time will heal the wounds. I would venture to say they might even be happier now, although I don't know that for sure. (I do retain some mutual friends so I hear about them every so often.) But I have found that the more I have done this in my past and seen that people do get over it and the pain is only temporary, it makes it easier to think about repeating the behavior again in the future.

Again, not sure if this is representative of all walk aways. Not trying to take over and talk about myself too much either. But hope this helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

kag123 said:


> Well, I definitely don't think its "normal" for someone to create problems where there are none. A "normal" person would probably be able to see the good in everything they have and be thankful and content. Whereas someone like myself tends to feel worse when everything is seemingly at its best. Part of it is what I already mentioned above - swirling thoughts of I don't deserve this, and I only bring them down. There's also the thought that when things are at their best, the only place to go from there is down. Its maddening to feel like you are waiting for the fall from grace and it is almost more bearable to just cut and run so you can stop waiting around for what you feel is the inevitable. Like I said - I am fairly sure no one "normal" thinks this way. I can realize in myself these are diseased thought processes but that doesn't mean I feel I have the power to change it (at least not by myself).
> 
> An additional layer, at least for me, is that I can harbor these feelings for months and years at a time without anyone else around me really catching on. I tend not to show this side of me to other people because I feel these are ugly thoughts and again, hate bringing down other peoples happiness. On the rare occasion I have tried to be vulnerable with H and share some of this with him, I felt judged, dismissed and like he clearly could not grasp the depth of how much I struggle on a daily basis to keep myself together. And if you add in the pattern of this happening over and over - me holding in my feelings, me taking a chance to connect and share with H, H shutting me out and/or making me feel crazy, me shutting down again and holding it in until the next time I feel like I am going to explode months later - it often feels like the best solution is to leave and spare us both the trouble.
> 
> ...


Don't feel for one minute that you are trying to take over; you're comments have been very insightful to me. I don't know what was going through my x's mind, but this could very well be it. It does create confusion for the one left. If I had done something bad, than i would have realized the "reason" she left. I still might not have liked it, but there would have been a logical reason. When people walk away for no reason, it's like replacing a new carpet because there is a spot in the corner behind the sofa; it's as though one is just "looking" for a reason. 

I know that the walk-away-wife has been discussed here before, but I just couldn't help but think that somewhere down the road, their feelings would change again they would regret it. 

I could understand it more too, even without a reason for leaving, if the person's attitude was that they discovered marriage just wasn't their thing and they were happy being relationship free the rest of their life. Most, however, tend to move to another relationship; I suppose it's with thoughts that the new relationship will finally be the "happy maker". If they had a good man already, how do they hope to top it. Not only will their future man have to have all the good qualities, which were many, of their previous relationship, but he will have to be much more. Where does that Prince charming live? 

It's like women on the outside looking in think it's ridiculous. I had people who couldn't believe she was leaving me. Some said, "I don't think she will ever find a man who treats her better than you do," or, "she doesn't realize how good her life really is." 

Sure, the new carpet won't have a spot in the corner, but otherwise, is it really any better than the other one, and who is to say this one won't get a huge spot in the center of the floor.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

kag123, do you really think your husband and children would be in such a "good place" in their lives if they didn't feel you were contributing to their success?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

southbound said:


> Do you believe the "walk-away-wife" or "mid-life" situation that leads to divorce is a phase that could be worked out if given the time, or is it a real feeling that most women are satisfied with for the rest of their life? I'm talking about women who divorce a man for no major reasons; he is a good father, good provider, there is no infidelity or abuse, etc., but she is just unhappy, or at least thinks she is unhappy, for whatever reason.
> 
> It happened to me, and i know it happens to other men. I know that people go through changes in their lives, and no doubt the woman is feeling unhappy at the time. But what about when she's 70 and retired or 90 and in the nursing home.  Do they ever look back at a more mature age and realize he wasn't such a bad guy after all and wonder what their life would have been with him after their adventurous nature died down and other phases of life occur, especially if their post relationships were not so good?
> 
> Oh, and I know this happens to men too. I wonder if they wish they had stayed with their "good wife" after they get tired of buying Corvettes and dying their hair?


Unfortunately most people think others make them happy. At the very least, they blame their partner if they are unhappy. This is completely false.

What's I normally see is the spouse leaves, get into another relationship and it takes 5-10 years before they hit the same exact place again and put it together that they are responsible for their own happiness. Usually over this period of time their ex has moved on. My bf while growing up was being raised by his dad because his mom ran off. His dad never remarried and eventually his mom came back and they've been back together for 20+ years now. She was gone however more than 10 years.

My mom on the other hand left and she and my dad remarried. She eventually knew it was her mistake but it was too late because my dad had already married. Again, it was about 10 years before she would admit that her leaving was a mistake. It was a similar situation to yours in that he was a good man who most women thought was a catch.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> What's I normally see is the spouse leaves, get into another relationship and it takes 5-10 years before they hit the same exact place and put it together that they are responsible for their own happiness.


Or they are like my sister who just moves onto the next one. She has yet to figure out that she's responsible for her own happiness. 

2 husbands and countless boyfriends and she still swears it's them. :lol:


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Thundarr said:


> Unfortunately most people think others make them happy. At the very least, they blame their partner if they are unhappy. This is completely false.
> 
> What's I normally see is the spouse leaves, get into another relationship and it takes 5-10 years before they hit the same exact place again and put it together that they are responsible for their own happiness. Usually over this period of time their ex has moved on. My bf while growing up was being raised by his dad because his mom ran off. His dad never remarried and eventually his mom came back and they've been back together for 20+ years now. She was gone however more than 10 years.
> 
> My mom on the other hand left and she and my dad remarried. She eventually knew it was her mistake but it was too late because my dad had already married. Again, it was about 10 years before she would admit that her leaving was a mistake. It was a similar situation to yours in that he was a good man who most women thought was a catch.


i truly think my x depended on others for her happiness, personally, i do not.

I guess the part that puzzles me is the fact that people actually take action and divorce over these feelings. It's like something has a hold on them that causes them to dwell only on their current feelings and skip the evaluation process. For example, there have been times over the years when i would get frustrated with my job, but when i took the time to think about it, i realized the good far outweighed the bad and that it would be best to stay long-term. If, however, i had acted on impulse and not thought about it, there is no telling what crummy situation i would be in now. 

I could understand more if a marriage had only been a few years with no children, and one decided that they had made a mistake and needed to move on. But I don't get people who have been married for years and years with children, and decide they are not happy and leave. Why are they so confident that a better life awaits them after divorce?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

southbound said:


> i truly think my x depended on others for her happiness, personally, i do not.
> 
> I guess the part that puzzles me is the fact that people actually take action and divorce over these feelings. It's like something has a hold on them that causes them to dwell only on their current feelings and skip the evaluation process. For example, there have been times over the years when i would get frustrated with my job, but when i took the time to think about it, i realized the good far outweighed the bad and that it would be best to stay long-term. If, however, i had acted on impulse and not thought about it, there is no telling what crummy situation i would be in now.
> 
> I could understand more if a marriage had only been a few years with no children, and one decided that they had made a mistake and needed to move on. But I don't get people who have been married for years and years with children, and decide they are not happy and leave. Why are they so confident that a better life awaits them after divorce?


Your analogy is a good one. The same type of people as your wife are the ones constantly looking for another job because theirs always stinks and it's always the company's fault for treating them bad.

The thought process that you used to recognize reality in your analogy is the same reason you're not the one leaving the marriage. It's also the reason you have a hard time comprehending how she rationalizes this.

A strong motivator for her is that blaming you for her unhappiness is an easier answer with an easier solution. In her mind "southbound is making me unhappy" so all I have to do is find "northbound" and life will be good. if she acknowledges that she's responsible for her own happiness then she has to come up with a more complex solution or maybe even an answer that she doesn't like. Something like, I'm just not going to be happy.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

kag123 said:


> Well, I definitely don't think its "normal" for someone to create problems where there are none. A "normal" person would probably be able to see the good in everything they have and be thankful and content. Whereas someone like myself tends to feel worse when everything is seemingly at its best. Part of it is what I already mentioned above - swirling thoughts of I don't deserve this, and I only bring them down. There's also the thought that when things are at their best, the only place to go from there is down. Its maddening to feel like you are waiting for the fall from grace and it is almost more bearable to just cut and run so you can stop waiting around for what you feel is the inevitable.


Everything you've described here is true for people who have been traumatized as children. Abuse and/or addicted parents have this effect on how their children experience adulthood. It can turn into a lifelong battle to learn to feel worthy and to expect the good to stay good. To not see small unhappinesses as HUGE problems that predict utter failure eventually. 

I wish I could say it was "abnormal," but I think it affects at least 1/3 of our population, so it's not exactly rare. My opinion is that you've nailed the entire walkaway experience in this one paragraph.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Everything you've described here is true for people who have been traumatized as children. Abuse and/or addicted parents have this effect on how their children experience adulthood. It can turn into a lifelong battle to learn to feel worthy and to expect the good to stay good. To not see small unhappinesses as HUGE problems that predict utter failure eventually.
> 
> I wish I could say it was "abnormal," but I think it affects at least 1/3 of our population, so it's not exactly rare. My opinion is that you've nailed the entire walkaway experience in this one paragraph.


To that I say "ice cream is cold yet everything cold is not ice cream ". If we look hard enough we can find excuses or reasons for just about every bad or unhealthy behavior. One excuse does not fit all and rarely does understanding the "why" of a behavior change the outcome the behavior creates. I suppose it does on occasion but then again, on occasion it also lets us turn people into victims that are not and then not hold them accountable.

Short of finding a way for OPs wife to take ownership of her own happiness, there's not much that helps.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Does your wife seem happier since she left?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Emerald said:


> Does your wife seem happier since she left?


That is difficult for me to say with full confidence, but there are indicators that she is not. Her sister told someone shortly after we split that, "I don't think she's as happy as she thought she would be."

She dated a guy shortly after we divorced and told me on the phone that, "He treats me better than you ever did." He later fooled around, got another woman pregnant, and married her. My x hasn't dated since.

My daughter says things like, "Mom is never in a good mood." She told me recently that being with me was a totally different atmosphere than with mom. 

I think my x thought that once i was gone, happiness would just come flowing in like a waterfall. I don't know for sure, but i don't think it's quite that good.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

KathyBatesel said:


> Everything you've described here is true for people who have been traumatized as children. Abuse and/or addicted parents have this effect on how their children experience adulthood. It can turn into a lifelong battle to learn to feel worthy and to expect the good to stay good. To not see small unhappinesses as HUGE problems that predict utter failure eventually.
> 
> I wish I could say it was "abnormal," but I think it affects at least 1/3 of our population, so it's not exactly rare. My opinion is that you've nailed the entire walkaway experience in this one paragraph.


I realize it is more common than we might think, and it may happen so much that it has become accepted among some as just "one of those things" in life, but it just doesn't seem like a logical move to me. When we view small things as HUGE problems, as you mentioned, I think that shows some faulty thinking? I wonder, too, how that faulty thinking can carry over into other aspects of their lives. I even had people ask me if i thought my x was fit to be with the kids. I asked what they meant, and they said, "If her thinking is off enough to think she needs a divorce, what kind of crazy decisions might she make regarding the kids when she's with them."


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

southbound said:


> I realize it is more common than we might think, and it may happen so much that it has become accepted among some as just "one of those things" in life, but it just doesn't seem like a logical move to me. When we view small things as HUGE problems, as you mentioned, I think that shows some faulty thinking? I wonder, too, how that faulty thinking can carry over into other aspects of their lives. I even had people ask me if i thought my x was fit to be with the kids. I asked what they meant, and they said, "If her thinking is off enough to think she needs a divorce, what kind of crazy decisions might she make regarding the kids when she's with them."


Here's the thing - you said it in your post above - "not a logical move"

Nothing about this kind of behavior is logical. The person walking away is beyond logic, it is a guttural response, a "fight or flight" instinct. You cannot apply logic to understand this. I would argue that it may be beyond the "normal" persons range to understand because you probably have no close experience of your own to relate it to.

Yes, a normal person has a bad day/month/year at work and is still able to see the future, understand things are hard sometimes but that in the future they will likely get better. The "abnormal" person does not see future, period. They cannot plan ahead, they do not see hope in the situation and usually react in "fight or flight" because the present problems are beyond their coping skills.

Also, I think this pattern of behavior is destined to go on forever, until the walk away seeks help. It is not easy to seek help tho. Its not about finding the next "better" husband (speaking for myself here), its about feeling the situation you are in has run its course and is hopeless. You run away to nothing in particular - same as if you were being chased at gun point. You run, you don't know where you are going except that it is away from where you were. Eventually you calm yourself down and begin to pick up pieces and start over. By the time you get yourself together usually the other person has long since moved on. And you probably date again, telling yourself "I won't be that weak again, I have learned from my mistakes." And only time will tell if you are right...but 9/10 you will continue the pattern when something familiar makes you panic. I know exactly what it is about my current dynamic with H that makes me want to run, and I saw it in my last LT relationship that I ran.from, and in my relationship with my father, who I also ran away from. Your a scared, lonely, helpless child just telling yourself that you need to get out and everything will be better if you walk away. 

Again, just my experience.

It may be better for you to focus on moving forward rather than looking back for evidence of rational thought.

ETA - if you feel worried about her being alone with your kids, can you force her to seek psychological help via a lawyer? No idea if that is possible. I would hate for your kids to learn her behavior is OK. Its one of the things that keeps me in limbo where I am with H instead of leaving. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I hate that I am seeing here that there must be "something wrong" with someone who does this, that they are "not normal". Also that they left "for no reason". No, there is ALWAYS a reason! I can tell you as someone who left two very unhappy marriages that I am perfectly normal, and had a list of reasons for doing so. Maybe telling yourself these things helps you to cope with the loss, and the confusion that came with it. Granted, there ARE
folks out there with emotional or mental issues, but I personally know that THAT is not a requirement for coming to the decision to get yourself OUT of a miserable situation. I see my first husband on a regular basis because of our daughter, and every time, I am reminded WHY I am not with him! I am SO grateful to myself for getting out of that marriage! 

Speaking for myself, I know that once I decide that I am done in a relationship, I AM DONE. Marriage is very important to me, but I made myself a promise a long time ago that I would not allow myself to stay in a miserable situation with someone who does not value me and treats me like crap.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

kag123 said:


> Here's the thing - you said it in your post above - "not a logical move"
> 
> Nothing about this kind of behavior is logical. The person walking away is beyond logic, it is a guttural response, a "fight or flight" instinct. You cannot apply logic to understand this. I would argue that it may be beyond the "normal" persons range to understand because you probably have no close experience of your own to relate it to.
> 
> ...


This thread has really helped me understand a lot of things about the mindset of some people. Along with the insight, just to have people say it is an illogical behavior helps make it more understandable to me, if that makes any sense. My x believed she was perfectly normal and that anyone should be able to understand why she wanted a divorce. So, if she was in a normal frame of mind, did that mean I was the crazy one for not understanding her reasons? I didn't think so, but she did. She even had some girlfriends who told her she was doing the wrong thing and that something was affecting her thinking, but that made her angry at them and she would have none of it.

Sometimes just putting the correct label on something helps my ability to cope. Believe it or not, I can even use an example of this from my x wife back when things were good. Sometimes she would come in from work and just admit that she was in a bad mood. Sometimes she would say, "I'm just not in a good mood today and don't fully know why, I guess work just got to me, so if I seem grumpy, that is why." Ok, that didn't explain much, but she wasn't pretending her mood was normal or acting like the fact that i passed the pepper instead of the salt was the real reason for her mood. That helped a lot.

I don't think she is doing anything to harm the kids other than set a horribly bad example of marriage; she hasn't went wild or anything, but it does make me wonder about how she makes other decisions in life.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

3Xacharm said:


> I hate that I am seeing here that there must be "something wrong" with someone who does this, that they are "not normal". Also that they left "for no reason". No, there is ALWAYS a reason! I can tell you as someone who left two very unhappy marriages that I am perfectly normal, and had a list of reasons for doing so. Maybe telling yourself these things helps you to cope with the loss, and the confusion that came with it. Granted, there ARE
> folks out there with emotional or mental issues, but I personally know that THAT is not a requirement for coming to the decision to get yourself OUT of a miserable situation. I see my first husband on a regular basis because of our daughter, and every time, I am reminded WHY I am not with him! I am SO grateful to myself for getting out of that marriage!
> 
> Speaking for myself, I know that once I decide that I am done in a relationship, I AM DONE. Marriage is very important to me, but I made myself a promise a long time ago that I would not allow myself to stay in a miserable situation with someone who does not value me and treats me like crap.


When i say that something is "wrong" with them, I don't necessarily mean they are a candidate for a mental hospital, I just mean that something is causing their thinking to be illogical, which someone already mentioned, logic isn't involved. So, if logic is thrown out the window, the best decision will not be made.

Also keep in mind, I'm speaking about a marriage with no big issues. One person just becomes unhappy and decides the only way out is to hit the trail. I just think that something as huge as a marriage should be given more thought.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

southbound said:


> I just think that something as huge as a marriage should be given more thought.


I understand you are looking for reasons why your wife left, understandable.

For all you know, she thought about leaving for years & kept it to herself. I know some WAW's that left because they were depressed but hid that also from everybody. They didn't realize that medical intervention could have helped. They were playing "geographics" by leaving but their problems followed them.

It doesn't sound like your wife is "happier."

Are you open to taking her back?


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

I think a lot of people leave their marriages and are surprised to find that the grass isn't any greener. But maybe they are too proud to admit it. And a lot of people mistakenly think that marriage is supposed to make them happy, when in fact it's their own job to make themselves happy, not their spouses.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Emerald said:


> It doesn't sound like your wife is "happier."
> 
> Are you open to taking her back?


I would consider it if things seemed right. It's been two years. She dated the one guy, he dumped her in a bad way, and she hasn't dated since. It's weird in a way. She hasn't went wild jumping from one relationship to the next. She hasn't changed her look or lifestyle much. One of the things she said in so many words is that it was boring while together; we apparently never did anything, but my daughter says she doesn't do anything now either.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

To answer your original question as to whether the "That's it I quit!" wife/husband will turn around and wonder if she made a mistake, possibly come back. I say YES! But is the answer quite that simple? Well it is..... and it isn't. 

From what I've seen the WAW/WAH goes through a period of disillusionment following a series of conflicts in marriage. This may be from losing a job or a child. Maybe getting older and wondering if the grass is greener elsewhere and that nice new person they met will always kiss their ass unlike their spouse. Or perhaps they long for the "high" of a new relationship and see you as the reason they are always unhappy. The cause of their wondering eye doesn't matter because I'll tell you what's really going on.....

*You aren't getting them high!*

Thats right, I said high as in triggering the mammalian response to behavioral triggers that release dopamine, norepinephrine, testosterone, oxytocin/vasopressin, and serotonin in the brain. Now how did this occur that you haven't "attracted" them anymore? I wish I could answer that fully because this is one area of study I go gaga OCD over, but to save space I'll just sum it up saying that emotion you call love as in "I don't love you anymore", is the final qualification in a series of personal needs you fulfill. Things such as comforting your spouse, Protecting them, being desired by others yet committing to them.... yet being a challenge etc. Not going to name everything but you get the idea basic 180 stuff.

So what's really happening when your spouse is pulling away is that they are coming down from a high (so to speak) and going through withdraws. Anything you do to comfort them, when your relationship has lost it's spark, will be met with the same resistance as it would if she was to quit cigarettes and go through withdraws. For example the "pass the salt" situation in that no-win circumstance is more of a test to see if you will meet at least one of her needs (listening to her). Unfortunately, almost all of the series of tests right after the disillusionment stage are designed to fail. You could literally be Mr. or Mrs. Right at this point and they would still find something wrong with you. And this is where a great conflict ensues. 

On the surface their troubles and pulling away seem like they can be easily fixed with a little extra effort and generous gestures. But scratch the surface a little deeper and you'll see they are beginning to anchor their low self esteem and personal disappointments with you. In NLP psychology anchoring is response to a stimulus done over and over. It's a happy feeling when you hear that song "If you're happy and you know it clap your hands" You clap your hands and become happy. What this means is they associate you with negative feelings the more you fight. Get it? Or in worse cases just seeing you sitting there watching tv again triggers memory of abandonment from childhood. 

So how do you reverse the damage and get a WAW/WAH to reconsider coming back? You change their expectations about you and deprogram their mind. And this is the same deprogramming method as deprogramming a cult member. You unfreeze their mind about certain beliefs "My husband/wife if the root of my unhappiness" by first boosting their self-esteem repeatedly over the course of a day or months in the worst of cases. Why is this important? Because we are hardwired to make judgements based on our emotions. If they are upset with you then they will speak nothing but negatively about you. You do this very slowly and subtly by avoiding conflicts and doing very small kind gestures (you do the dishes before she asks/avoid b!tching about dirty dishes). 

Once you escalate their mood to a point where they are most happy you move to phase two. You apologize and agree with their perception of you (I'm sorry I was a controlling assh*e when we were married). This not lowers their defenses but it also helps you change their expectations. This is also where you start anchoring these positive feelings to you. This isn't some stage hypnotist's trick where you repeat catch phrases and they believe they're a professional ballerina. On the contrary, you anchor these feeling by having a positive attitude and using a very powerful emotional tool. You remind her of fun time you spent together and fire off that pet name jokingly, or nudge her in the arm playfully. You do this every time the same way each time over. Then suddenly change the topic a few times before trying it again. If it worked that special hug or handshake change their outlook when talking about even the most depressing topics. This helps with changing her mind AND anchors those dopamine releasing feelings to you because you and only you can trigger her the right way.

I know this sounds evil but where all guilty of high-fiving, hugging, inside jokes, and spanking our lovers. You're just using this knowingly to your advantage. So the next time you're alone with your spouse whose upset think what can I do to boost their self esteem, so someone else doesn't beat me to it and win their heart. It could be anything that makes them happy and releases dopamine, but instead of being a dancing clown focus on making them really happy whenever they're around you. But the strongest emotions come from triggering childhood memories of love and affection. You make your spouse happy doing non-sexual physical activities together to the point you are both feeling really really good, and then change what you're doing before their emotions fall. BTW physical activities work well in your favor as they release more endorphins. You can then bring up challenging relationship issues and get an honest answer so long as you're not creating conflict (no forcing them to say I love you back or admit to affairs). Rather, just admit to your faults in the relationship (not being there for them or whatever) and leave it at that. Here most often he/she will admit to some small fault of their own or lessen your feeling of guilt by downplaying the problems...... don't fuss if you don't get the response you expected. It's a baby step in the right direction. From there on you remain consistent and hope for the best. 

I believe SB you were asking nonchalantly if there was a way to get your WAW back? Yes. But it's not going to be easy. As I have said above you're dealing with a slow process to change their mind about you and their beliefs and self esteem. Even in the worst cases I've seen and read guilt will outlast pride. You can justify an affair to yourself 101 different ways, but if you believe cheating is wrong inside you're going to feel guilty when your over inflated pride gives way to triggered positive memories and you miss what you had. To put it another way.... Even when she hated you she still loved you. And she's always going to love those memories.

I apologize for getting carried away and drifting off topic.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Nsweet said:


> I believe SB you were asking nonchalantly if there was a way to get your WAW back? Yes. But it's not going to be easy. As I have said above you're dealing with a slow process to change their mind about you and their beliefs and self esteem. Even in the worst cases I've seen and read guilt will outlast pride. You can justify an affair to yourself 101 different ways, but if you believe cheating is wrong inside you're going to feel guilty when your over inflated pride gives way to triggered positive memories and you miss what you had. To put it another way.... Even when she hated you she still loved you. And she's always going to love those memories.
> 
> I apologize for getting carried away and drifting off topic.


What you wrote makes sense. As far as me asking about how to get her back, I guess in a sense, I don't know. It's been two years and I'm past the bad part and happy with my life. If we never get back, we just don't, and that is what I am prepared for. 

I guess I just see our situation as a little different, although i can't fully explain why. I just feel like this is so unlike the woman i was married to who acted like she loved me for so many years. 

We were a bit edgy when we first divorced. We had a few heated exchanges on the phone, but we haven't had a cross word in over a year. Although we don't talk small talk, only business, she seems pleasant now. I just wonder if these two years and her poor treatment from her boyfriend have changed her thinking any, or if she is still glad we are apart. Someone mentioned that when people walk away, they aren't worried about what they are running to, they are just trying to get away. I wonder if the two years has given her time to wonder now what she is running to and if she likes what she sees? I wonder if she sees things exactly like she did before?


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I have to ask - why do you want her back?

Even if she came back, how could you be sure she wouldn't do it again?

Seeing no change in her lifestyle isn't necessarily a good thing...it could mean she still hasn't resolved any of her own problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

kag123 said:


> I have to ask - why do you want her back?
> 
> Even if she came back, how could you be sure she wouldn't do it again?
> 
> ...


I'm not 100% sure that I would want her back, and you are right, who's to say she wouldn't do it again. I don't really feel to make a first move, but if she did, I would at least give it a look.

I guess everybody is different. After being married to her for 18 years and having two kids and not having any serious issues, at least in my eyes, being with her just seems natural. It's hard to flush all that down the toilet, and i don't know why anyone would want to.


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