# Deeply wounded at being treated like a stranger



## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

I have been married for over 20 years, the first fifteen or so of which I felt were very good, mostly happy years, with some exceptions. My wife has a bad temper and we would fight, but we were always close, or so I thought. When people would ask me about my marriage, I would always tell them I was very happy, and I truly envied no one.

During our marriage, we would make love 2-3 times a week, which was fine with me. My wife very much enjoyed sex, and I felt that part of our life was very good and that we were very close. We started a family and had a good life.

About five years ago, my wife just checked out of the marriage. What caused it? A comment I made about financial matters, related to a bad investment we had made at her insistence. She said my comment was belittling. I apologized but said that I was just trying to protect our family’s future. Her withdrawal, both from physical and emotional intimacy, was shocking to me and I did not know what to think. It was scary to look into her eyes and see nothing, as if 15 years of marriage and devotion could be wiped out so easily. I insisted on counseling, which she dropped out of. I contemplated divorce, but my mother was very ill and lived alone and far away, and I decided to devote time to her during the last few years of her life. 

After my mother died, I again thought about divorce but we were in such a financial hole that I felt it was not possible. I just waited it out, not really knowing what to do. My wife dropped out of counseling again. I went myself for a while but realized that there was only so much I could gain from that. Slowly, my wife has become closer to me, at least emotionally. I would like to work it out if we could be close again. My wife has changed and is actually much nicer to me than before. She is considerate and tries to spend time with me. But still no physical intimacy. That is what is killing me inside. My wife knows that I think she does not love me but she says she does love me. It is all so complicated. 

What complicates things further is that my wife now does have some physical issues that have reduced her desire. She is in pain that causes her to constantly be on medication. She has no desire for sex. I feel the pain of rejection from my wife that had nothing to do with physical issues at the time and now that she is emotionally closer to me, there is no sex due to these physical issues. But I feel that I need intimacy more than ever to heal the pain I feel, the wounds I feel, from being treated like a stranger for years. So I do not know what to do. I have talked to her and she sometimes lets me use her body to masturbate to. But that is not enough. Maybe if this had never happened, it would be enough as I would never leave a woman that I thought loved me. But I cannot feel that she loves me without intimacy. I just can’t. 

I love my wife but don’t feel the same. I need reassurance that I am loved and that can only come through intimacy. I don’t know how I can ever get her to understand the pain I feel at what has happened. Thanks for reading.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Hard situation but at least she has become less distant. The medical condition is a bit vague. Did she have a hysterectomy?

You don't mention chidren.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your wife's withdrawal from the marriage was 5 years ago. You have a dependent but you don't have a wife. Despite her physical problems there are things she could do but she isn't interested. I guess you have a few options. You could bite the financial bullet, divorce her, and try to salvage what remains of your life. You might rephrase your need by characterizing it as "intimacy" and not sex. She might miss intimacy, too, and there are non-sexual ways that you and she can regain intimacy. If intimacy is the goal, then snuggling, talking, taking a walk are all wins and you don't feel rejected every day. Don't put your self-worth or self-esteem in her hands or anyone else's. You can throw down extra hard at work, pick up a hobby, learn a foreign language, buy a Harley, or a number of things to build your own self-esteem. If she can't love you, you can love yourself. If you're the sole or primary bread-winner, you might consider reducing expenses, paying off bills, socking some bread away so you have options and you don't feel trapped and so she knows you have the means to drop her like a bad habit if she doesn't square away. If you've been lavishing her with attention, gifts, etc, quit. Nobody changes the bad behavior of another by rewarding it.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I know exactly how you feel, and it sucks.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Would it be possible to be less vague about her pain issues and what meds she taking?

I have had my fair share of physical pain and took lovely painkillers, or steroids, or meds for nerve pain... I don't get the connection because when they kick in and the pain is gone...it's like game ON baby! But if the pain isn't being treated properly, don't even talk of games.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I can't help but wonder if in OP wife's current state of mind intimacy and sex are synonyms. More reasonable people would think they're not, even within the context of marriage. 

Another thought is whether her health concerns - real or imaginary - completely block out any thoughts of sex or intimacy. It's what I call the bigger problem. That is, she's so stressed out by her health issues (or work, or money, or etcetera) that she can't see a way to address all issues in parallel. First we must fix health, then... Priorities.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'm sorry you are in this situation. It sounds like you have done what you can to regain the intimacy you once had with your wife.

Statistically most marriage fail. That's the sad fact of the matter. No one on this board has any guarantee that they won't eventually fall into that statistic and it can happen for any reason under the sun.

I'm rather a hopeless romantic - I'd like to believe that two people who love each other and are trying can make a marriage work. However if only one person loves the other or only one person is trying it is not going to work.

Unfortunately the one person who loves and the one person who tries will stay in a dead marriage way too long and to their own detriment.

I've been married nearly 20 years as well. There is a tipping point at this time, that is my belief. 20 years behind you - a look at the 20 ahead. Understanding that you are old enough to make better choices and young enough to enjoy the next 20 years and that might be with someone else.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Nothing addresses being treated like a stranger than treating the other person like a stranger as well. It does not fix it, but it's nice to apply the golden rule.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Sounds like my approach may work for you. 

couple near term goals:

Take care of you and your side of the street..you control you fix anything wrong with you or any bad habits
Learn to be OK without your wife...learn something new or take up some hobby activity
Settle into a sexless baseline mode...so when/if she reacts you can ramp it up too match her. You have to take the marriage to ground level and start over.
Educate her about the importance of sex to you as a man...she may not know.
Change the dynamics...become the husband and comprise your role and let her take the rest.

Stop talking and start doing after you educate her

Basically use this time wisely (Without fear of sex being withheld as it is already)

Later (because the above steps will take a lot of time) find the root and then offer her the single life. Then go from there together or apart.
People only change it the WANT TO or HAVE TO

There is no quick fix if you really want to PERMANENTLY fix your relationship


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

My wife has nerve pain in her back, sometimes it is debilitating, mostly it is managed with pain meds and some physical therapy. It is not clear what is causing the pain. My wife said it has caused her to lose desire.

I have tried to be understanding but I feel the greatest pain for me has been the emotional withdrawal. I feel she is still holding back in some way. She was hurt in some way and she says it takes a long time for her to heal. I tell her I have been a devoted husband and I think I should be judged by my whole record. There has been no infidelity and I have always treated her well. 

She says she is trying harder and wants me to recognize that. I do recognize that but the lack of intimacy is killing me. Divorce is always an option but it is hard to think of that when yoru marriage is actually improving. It is just not improving enough.

Will it continue to improve? I don't know. She is thoughtful and tries to spend more time with me but I need more. She works at night so we don't see each other as much as I would like. But we now make time for each other. I just want her to invite me inot bed for something more than a kiss. I do not try to initiate anymore. I need to know that I am wanted.

We live alone now. We still have one child in college. It is hard to give up on more than twenty years of marriage, most of which were happy. But it is also frightening to look ahead and see only loneliness.


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## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Doesn't your W give you BJ's? If she has trouble having normal sex would she be able to do BJ's for you at least?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Can you please each other sexually in ways that would make you both feel loved? Give oral sex to each other, manual stimulation of each other, PIV in positions that are not painful for her, maybe spooning position. 

She may not have spontaneous desire but reactive desire. After arousal she may desire sex. She has to want to be aroused. You have not touched each other intimately for a long time. 

Perhaps starting slow with non sexual touch and building up to mutually pleasurable sexual touch would work over several sessions . Have you considered a sex therapist? 

Let your wife know how you feel. Especially the point about the empty years ahead. She deserves to know how trouble your marriage is. That gives her a chance to try to work together. 

If she can't then you can discuss the future. Don't give ultimatums or threaten to leave if she does not have sex. Make it an opportunity to reconnect. Ask her about her dreams for the future and tell her honestly about yours. 

If the two cannot be merged, you may have to let her go to fulfill her dreams and you do the same. But only if you try as much as you can.


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## DanglingDaisy (Mar 26, 2012)

I apologize if I sound rude...but you're NOT talking about intimacy-you're talking about sex.

Intimacy is about spending quality time together doing things that emotionally bring you to together-sex is only one way. Finding time to do things with each other,walks in the park,finding time to date and have fun together. That's intimacy that brings you two together.

You in essence are crying about a lack of sex...to that having been in YOUR shoes, I say either accept it or move on.

If the tables were turned-how would you feel knowing she reduced your whole relationship down to her not getting enough sexual satisfaction? 

A relationship is more than just about sex. Work on the other areas and learn to please yourself in the ways you need. Otherwise seriously consider moving on-you relieve her of the pressure and provide yourself a partner that can please you sexually as you need.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's a chicken and egg problem. A few years ago before the Rapture my wide and I took daily hour long walks and actually talked. We did some things together. Since the Rapture she has shut down emotionally. Going for a walk is nowhere as rewarding as it used to be....


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

I appreciate all of the fine suggestions. I do believe the problems are more emotional than physical, even though there are real physical problems. I think the lack of desire to be intimate is primarily emotional. 

I should mention that my wife came to this country as a teenager and lived with a relative. Well, that relative abused her (emotionally, not physically) and I blelieve that has had a lasting impact on her. When she gets hurt, she tends to withdraw and retreat emotionally. I have been a good husband (at least I think I have). I helped her through school and have always tried to be there for her. I told her I am not perfect and if I hurt her I am sorry. I have also told her that there is always going to be some level of hurt in a marriage and that forgiveness is needed. I forgive her for the hurt she has caused me and I expect the same. Otherwise, why be married?

During counseling, she did one time break down and cry. The counselor did ask her why and she said because we used to be so close. I believe that she stopped going to counseling because her culture (from Asia) looks down upon it. I don't think she could ever get past the idea that going to counseling does not mean there is something wrong with you.

I really think the barriers are emotional. I think she is afraid to be close. I have to find a way to break through and like the suggestions. I am torn about giving an ultimatum because it can be counterproductive. But at some point if there is no progress, you cannot continue to be all carrot and no stick.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

He is describing a need for sexual contact to feel emotionally close to his wife. It is very common for men and some women to feel that way. 

It does not sound as if he wants to just get his rocks off. I think he would have walked away when their child entered college if that were the case. 

From what he describes, he appreciates and accepts her way of showing love and emotional connection.


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

I want to respond to DanglingDaisy. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion but I think you are completely wrong. If you do not think that one of a man's primary emotional needs, not just physical but emotional, is sexual fulfillment, then you are just not being realistic. When a woman shares her body, a man knows she loves him. That is biology and I would bet that far more than 90% of men feel that way. There are exceptions, of course, but by and large that is how men feel.

We do take walks together, spend time together, and are getting closer again. But I need physical intimacy as well to feel loved. There is nothing wrong with wanting that from your spouse. I would not ask her to do anything that is physically painful. But if it is emotionally painful then I have a right to know why. I think that most people don't want to be with someone that finds it emotionally painful to be with them.

I have asked my wife if she wants a divorce. She says no. I asked her if I am being unreasonable in wanting physical intimacy with her. She also said no. So I am looking for ways to make her feel emotionally closer to me so that we can experience physical intimacy as well.

As far as if the tables were turned, most women do not experience sexual fulfillment as their primary emotional need. I did not say none do, but I believe most do not.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TOMTEFAR said:


> Doesn't your W give you BJ's? If she has trouble having normal sex would she be able to do BJ's for you at least?


The difficulty here is that her giving him a bj will not solve the problem of bringing them closer together. In fact, I think the little progress they have made recently will evaporate. 

Yes, he is meeting her needs by accepting her advances at being closer. However, giving him a bj when she is not interested in sex may cause the riff between them to widen. Mutually enjoyable sex has a better chance of being a bonding experience.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Just curious, what part of the world did Married's wife come from? I pride myself in knowing people from nearly everywhere (that Nepal guy eluded me  I thought he was Indian) and it's a huge planet out there in terms of peoples...


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

John,

She is from the Philippines. But I believe that pretty much all Asian cultures feel the way I described. It would be interesting to ask marriage cousnselors this, but I bet that the percentage of their clients that are Asian is much smaller than their relative percentage in the population. I have talked to some of my wife's family members about this (not about our specific situation at all). They readily admit that the pressure to sweep pyschological problems under the rug is enormous, leading to much bigger problems later.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I know lots of Filipinos, awesome people. But there's Asians and there's Asians  I dated a few and married one. They do rug sweep but think of the influences they've all had. 

Can you get her into MC at all? Does she have married friends who could act as role models a bit? 

It may not be cultural as much as personal also. There's some cultural component - a Malaysian person will not be as emotional as an Italian for example on average - but those can be addressed. Maybe look for an Asian therapist or MC if you're in a bigger city?


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

I would like to see if she will go for marriage counseling again. The last guy we went to was a disaster, in my opinion. I asked him to just be as tough on my wife as he was with me but he wanted to bend over backwards to gain her trust. As a result, little was asked of her and nothing was accomplished. When she wanted to drop out, I didn't object. Next time, I will insist on a woman. I may be biased, but I just think a woman will be tougher and ask more of both partners.

What do I expect out of marriage counseling? One think I would hope for is for my wife to hear from a trusted independent person (i.e., the marriage counselor) how important physical intimacy is to a man, and how that is how he feels love. She hears that from me and I have given her books, articles, etc., but it doesn't get through. Sometimes it is hard for someone to understand that their partner may have a need that they do not have. That is what I would hope a marriage counselor could help us with, as well as helping us to become more emotionally close.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

I do not believe you should continue to tolerate your wife withholding either emotional or physical intimacy from you. 5 years of tolerating this is plenty. Without both kinds of intimacy there is no real marriage.

No excuse is sufficient.....not childhood abuse, not culture..nothing. you can still take compassion on her as an ex-wife, but for love I think it is time for you to look elsewhere. You need to start the divorce process.....if that doesn't motivate her to work on her problems nothing will.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Is she close to 40? Has she been having irregular periods? Heavier more painful periods than before? If so she mayb going thru perimenopause. Perimenopause seems to amplify problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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