# Esther Perel says cheating is not betrayal...whatever



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

“To have an affair does not necessarily mean you’ve betrayed the other person. Every relationship has an intimacy on its own, and every relationship has to be looked at in a separate way. If your man is having an affair with another woman, I don’t want to know. That’s their thing. I prefer to work on my relationship with the man. That’s how you get him back.”*-

Unreal , little by little infidelity is being pushed slowly on becoming more acceptable, I think to be fair maybe then marriage should be equally pushed as being unnecessary, 
why a fancy ceremony with friends and family and all sorts of vows for?? Save the $$ for quality time spent together as a couple instead....at least this is the advice I plan on giving my kids, thou need no marriage to have a fulfilling life!


----------



## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

"To have an affair does not necessarily mean you’ve betrayed the other person."

The "not necessarily" is key here is it not? Usually, generally, normally it does but maybe not always.

My XW was so desperate to stay married to me that she offered (unbidden and in writing) that I could have a sexual relationship (technically an affair - even if both I and the lady were unattached) with a woman - though, since XW is, IMO, technically a psychopath, it came with pathetic requests/conditions. 

I think the granting of permission would make it difficult to say there could have been betrayal. Certainly not of my then W: betrayal implies an unwanted act does it not? XW desperately wanted me to have an affair - "so we will be even". When, so far as she knew, I did not indulge she even arranged that her (very rejectable) best friend should proposition me and then that we should attend a dinner party for eight where the expected conclusion was swapping/group sex.
Betrayal of the marriage? If technically possible it wouldn't, in my view, have applied since she had destroyed the marriage - leaving nothing to be betrayed.

So - as an academic EP is probably correct - but uttering such a statement may say more about EP than about infidelity.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

To kill someone without cause is not technically murder. Every killing is different. If you killed your wife, I don't want to know. How you bury her so you don't get caught is what I'm interested in.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

**** Esther Perel ....



but what every you do, DON'T MARRY HER!


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think I'll just get her pregnant and let her husband know he isn't being betrayed but he needs to pay more attention to her ..... Good grief...


----------



## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

There are times when I'm glad I'm old. This makes me sick to my stomach--a lot of gobbledy-**** with a smidge of no-excuse thrown in. A world without order will soon be so chaotic that lack of rules will be the least of our worries.


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

At times I do wonder how she has attained success in the marriage industry. The lady knows less than Jon Snow.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

CantBelieveThis said:


> “To have an affair does not necessarily mean you’ve betrayed the other person. Every relationship has an intimacy on its own, and every relationship has to be looked at in a separate way.


Sorry Esther this quote is 100% pure unadulterated
Bull ****.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Sophistry!!


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Esther Perel is officially an idiot.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BioFury said:


> At times I do wonder how she has attained success in the marriage industry. The lady knows less than Jon Snow.


You win everything in the entire internet for this comment.


----------



## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Sounds like, according to Esther, that if I move money out of someone else's bank account without their knowledge, that's not a form of betrayal. We need to look at it on a case-by-case basis, and the focus should be on getting the unspent money back.


----------



## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

BioFury said:


> At times I do wonder how she has attained success in the marriage industry. The lady knows less than Jon Snow.


By telling people the garbage they want to hear, and putting the approval stamp of "science" on it to make it more believable. Same thing the media does.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

cp3o said:


> "To have an affair does not necessarily mean you’ve betrayed the other person."
> 
> The "not necessarily" is key here is it not? Usually, generally, normally it does but maybe not always.
> 
> ...


You spent a lot of keystrokes devising a scenario that was not related to the basis Esther gave for her statement. Her rationale is still bull****. She is still ****ed in the head.


----------



## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> You spent a lot of keystrokes devising a scenario that was not related to the basis Esther gave for her statement. Her rationale is still bull****. She is still ****ed in the head.


Devise means plan or invent. Devise does not mean relate what actually happened. I related what actually happened.

The basis is not relevant to the accuracy or otherwise of the statement. If the basis she gave is inaccurate - so what - the statement can still be correct - just for a different reason.

Your last two sentences may be right - they are irrelevant to the question as to whether cheating is always betrayal.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

cp3o said:


> "To have an affair does not necessarily mean you’ve betrayed the other person."
> 
> The "not necessarily" is key here is it not? Usually, generally, normally it does but maybe not always.
> 
> ...


I think that even if a spouse is ok with their husband/wife having an affair, it would still be a betrayal. A betrayal of our character and moral values and integrity, and a betrayal of our marriage vows to forsake all others.


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Esther Perel is just one of a number of self proclaimed relationship experts who are in the business of selling books/tickets to their meetings and online videos. They need to be in the public eye so what better way than to make an incendiary remark that is quoted all over the Internet and then in a few days they will release another bulletin explaining what they really meant. 
Someone once said there is no such thing as bad publicity and it’s been proven to be true time after time.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> “To have an affair does not necessarily mean you’ve betrayed the other person. Every relationship has an intimacy on its own, and every relationship has to be looked at in a separate way. If your man is having an affair with another woman, I don’t want to know. That’s their thing. I prefer to work on my relationship with the man. That’s how you get him back.”*-
> 
> Unreal , little by little infidelity is being pushed slowly on becoming more acceptable, I think to be fair maybe then marriage should be equally pushed as being unnecessary,
> why a fancy ceremony with friends and family and all sorts of vows for?? Save the $$ for quality time spent together as a couple instead....at least this is the advice I plan on giving my kids, thou need no marriage to have a fulfilling life!


You screwed up. EP didn't say this, Diane von Furstenberg did. Everyone is jumping of the demonizing bandwagon without even checking a source, which the OP neglected to provide. More fools, you all!

https://www.vogue.com/article/diane...erel-love-infidelity-state-affairs-book-party


----------



## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I think that even if a spouse is ok with their husband/wife having an affair, it would still be a betrayal. A betrayal of our character and moral values and integrity, and a betrayal of our marriage vows to forsake all others.


I see things differently - it's a complex area and probably neither of us is entirely "right". but then, since "right" is not absolute, we may both be "right". 

For me - marriage vows are basically a contract - I'll do this for you if you'll do this for me. In the past written marriage contracts were common in certain circles - I understand that pre-nups still occur. There is offer, acceptance and consideration. That doesn't preclude love. caring romance etc. - but ultimately it means giving up some things in return for something we prefer. Promises, both ways, between what should be equally powerful and committed parties.

When a party to a contract breaks a major term of that contract the innocent party is entitled to consider the contract terminated and has the additional option to sue for restitution/damages. Alternatively they may rewrite the contract and offer the breaker the chance to accept the revised deal. Or they may decide to ignore history and accept promises of future compliance. The cheat does not get to decide which scenario, though they can reject an alternative deal - thus leaving the innocent party with reduced options.

I (and the scenario I described is what happened to me in the 1980s) knew that my marriage was dead. My XW thought that she could deliberately smash a priceless vase, pick up the larger shards, glue and tape the remains together, crayon some of the more obvious cracks and then give it to me to throw, once again, to the ground - and we would be "even".

We had two pre-school kids; I put a revised deal in place that meant I could minimise their exposure to their psychopathic mother, provide a decent quality of life and maintain a basic degree of protection for them until they were pre-further education. My XW never once complained, never once suggested divorce or separation and it was me that pulled the plug, when it suited me. During the dozen years or so that I protected my kids I also enjoyed a wonderful, caring, cuddling, kissing (+) relationship with a married woman who was in a similar situation, looked like Angie ****inson (as Sergeant Pepper Anderson) and was possibly the best friend I ever had. 

I did, and do, not consider that I broke my marriage vows - that would be like claiming I murdered someone because I dug up their months dead body and shot it; you might consider it odd, you might consider it disconcerting, you might consider it gross - but it wouldn't be murder.

As to my "character and moral values and integrity" - You may form your own opinion. I am not good at doing "doormat". IMO character, moral values and integrity should be positive attributes rather than concepts that enable manipulation, humiliation and degradation.

That which had been slaughtered, against my wishes, was dead. That carcass was with me daily but I really don't think that, once I had done all I could for the innocent, it would have been appropriate for me to wallow in pre-martyrdom. My kids have the example of a survivor, someone who is, despite the past, in a very good place, emotionally, financially, physically and partnership-wise - none of which are, so I'm told, true of my XW.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CantBelieveThis said:


> “To have an affair does not necessarily mean you’ve betrayed the other person. Every relationship has an intimacy on its own, and every relationship has to be looked at in a separate way. If your man is having an affair with another woman, I don’t want to know. That’s their thing. I prefer to work on my relationship with the man. That’s how you get him back.”*-
> 
> Unreal , little by little infidelity is being pushed slowly on becoming more acceptable, I think to be fair maybe then marriage should be equally pushed as being unnecessary,
> why a fancy ceremony with friends and family and all sorts of vows for?? Save the $$ for quality time spent together as a couple instead....at least this is the advice I plan on giving my kids, thou need no marriage to have a fulfilling life!


Who is Esther Perel and why should I give a **** about what she says? :rofl:


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

cp3o said:


> I see things differently - it's a complex area and probably neither of us is entirely "right". but then, since "right" is not absolute, we may both be "right".
> 
> For me - marriage vows are basically a contract - I'll do this for you if you'll do this for me. In the past written marriage contracts were common in certain circles - I understand that pre-nups still occur. There is offer, acceptance and consideration. That doesn't preclude love. caring romance etc. - but ultimately it means giving up some things in return for something we prefer. Promises, both ways, between what should be equally powerful and committed parties.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are trying to say, but If you were married and she was married then it was still adultery. If you were experiencing manipulation, humiliation and degradation(abuse)then surely the best thing was to have an amicably arranged separation and divorce, making sure that your children were well cared for. Why would want have wanted your children to live in that sort of relationship and think that was normal? What about the OW? Did her husband agree to this as well? Or was he being deceived and lied to?


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Oh yeah? Well, WW says Esther Perel (whoever that is) is a lying, cheating bimbo.

If you make a comittment to someone that you will not have sexual relations with anyone else, and they are in a marriage with you based on that contingency, and you go behind their back and do have sexual relations with others, then yes, of course that means you've betrayed them.

Good grief. It's like words have no meaning anymore.




CantBelieveThis said:


> “To have an affair does not necessarily mean you’ve betrayed the other person. Every relationship has an intimacy on its own, and every relationship has to be looked at in a separate way. If your man is having an affair with another woman, I don’t want to know. That’s their thing. I prefer to work on my relationship with the man. That’s how you get him back.”*-
> 
> Unreal , little by little infidelity is being pushed slowly on becoming more acceptable, I think to be fair maybe then marriage should be equally pushed as being unnecessary,
> why a fancy ceremony with friends and family and all sorts of vows for?? Save the $$ for quality time spent together as a couple instead....at least this is the advice I plan on giving my kids, thou need no marriage to have a fulfilling life!


----------

