# Attraction beyond the steryotipical hunk



## southbound

Again, I didn't want to hijack another thread, but as I have become fascinated over the years as to what women find attractive in men. It puzzles me a bit, because I suppose I formulated the wrong idea with a little too much Hollywood as a youngster. I thought if a guy looked and acted like Burt Reynolds or Tom Selleck,(my examples show my age) and had some positive things going on in their lives, women would flock to them.

I've discovered this isn't always the case. Some guys just seem to have this thing that isn't apparent that attracts women. When I was in my teens, for example, I knew a guy in his 20s who was already practically bald, back when bald wasn't in, and he had women fighting over him. I never understood it.

On the other hand, there are guys that seem to be good looking, etc., but the ladies just don't seem to go for them. 

I though, who better to ask than the women of this forum to explain this. I'd like to include a great description from Personal and ask that the women respond. Do you feel that some guys just attract women without even trying? They just have this aura over them that says, "come get me, I'm interesting," even though they may not be the stereotypical hunk? Have you experienced this yourself?

I'm not saying that only the Tom Cruises of the world can attract women, but there are some things that have always puzzled me about attraction. Here is the quote"



Personal said:


> Not me, I'm 5'3" tall and except for having broad shoulders and a pleasant face and being fit and skinny until more recent years where I put weight on (which I've now started to lose :yay. Yet I do still draw interest from some (of course not all) women who tend to be taller than me as has been my experience throughout my life.
> 
> I think there are some men and women alike who draw attention without having to do anything, from some of the opposite sex.
> 
> I don't think being built or not (that said it's cool to be fit and healthy), specifically draws interest alone, it really is a combination of things some people just have a bit of a beacon above their head saying I'm attractive come this way even if they don't realise it. I've seen short tall, fat skinny handsome and ugly draw pursuit from others, because they have something more about them than their appearance alone


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## NobodySpecial

Burt Reynolds and Tom Selleck? Ew.


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## southbound

NobodySpecial said:


> Burt Reynolds and Tom Selleck? Ew.


I know, I showed my age, but they were certainly 'the guys" back in the day. I was just using them as example. You may substitue Brad Pitt, or whomever you need.


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## firebelly1

Not sure I have a good answer for you on this. I find myself constantly surprised at what I do and don't find attractive and I'm well aware that my tastes are not shared by many other women. 

I do have a physical type that I like, as I described in the other thread. I really am not attracted to skinny guys. A guy with Scandinavian bone structure, blue eyes, and a blonde goatee will get me every time. And facial features are meaningful. A guy can have a smoking body and if I don't find his face attractive, I don't consider him physically attractive. But there are guys I think of as "attractive" even though their face isn't something I would think of as my type or physically attractive. And that has to do with personality. 

Confidence is huge. Sense of humor is a big one. A guy that can make me laugh is such a turn-on.


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## jld

Some men are just nonthreatening and easy to talk to. I would imagine they draw in a lot of women.


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## Faithful Wife

Is it really that mysterious? Don't you find some women have sex appeal who don't look like your average beautiful actress?


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## NobodySpecial

For me, a guy can look attractive at first. But if his personality is bad, then he becomes unattractive.


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## NobodySpecial

I am of the same vintage. I always thought that Tom Selleck and Burt Reynolds were yuck. Facial hair maybe?


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## jld

Are you looking to attract a woman, southbound? 

If so, I would encourage you to be yourself. Just be genuine, and try to get to know women you're interested in. Listen more than you speak. Draw her out. 

Also, try to meet women through clubs or other areas of common interest.


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## NobodySpecial

What I find attractive is the spirit of fun.


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## southbound

firebelly1 said:


> Confidence is huge.


I think this one is on every woman's list. In your opinion, how is the confidence displayed, and how would someone who is not confident act? 



firebelly1 said:


> Sense of humor is a big one. A guy that can make me laugh is such a turn-on.


Again, I think this one is on every woman's list. What kind of "make me laugh" do you like, the Jim Carey type, or a more sophisticated humor?


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## Ikaika

Faithful Wife said:


> Is it really that mysterious? Don't you find some women have sex appeal who don't look like your average beautiful actress?



Bingo, winning answer. I would go a step further and suggest, being attractive can also be a state of mind for that person and I do believe we all have our types. 

I'm a guy but never found long legged blondes attractive, not even a little. My type, Asian-Pacific wahines (Hawaiian for female) 

I always figure not trying to be someone else or trying too hard and just being comfortable with who I am was enough. I never expected I would be attractive to every woman but those who I found attractive and the feeling was mutual was enough. I will say, there is something about remaining healthy that can also be attractive, but then again that is simply my bias.


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## jld

Ikaika said:


> Bingo, winning answer. I would go a step further and suggest, being attractive can also be a state of mind for that person and I do believe we all have our types.
> 
> I'm a guy but never found long legged blondes attractive, not even a little. My type, Asian-Pacific wahines (Hawaiian for female)
> 
> *I always figure not trying to be someone else or trying too hard and just being comfortable with who I am was enough.* I never expected I would be attractive to every woman but those who I found attractive and the feeling was mutual was enough. I will say, there is something about remaining healthy that can also be attractive, but then again that is simply my bias.


:iagree:


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## southbound

Ikaika said:


> Bingo, winning answer. I would go a step further and suggest, being attractive can also be a state of mind for that person and I do believe we all have our types.
> 
> I'm a guy but never found long legged blondes attractive, not even a little. My type, Asian-Pacific wahines (Hawaiian for female)
> 
> I always figure not trying to be someone else or trying too hard and just being comfortable with who I am was enough. I never expected I would be attractive to every woman but those who I found attractive and the feeling was mutual was enough. I will say, there is something about remaining healthy that can also be attractive, but then again that is simply my bias.


I understand what you all are saying in that "it isn't such a mystery." For example, if you don't like long legged blondes, I'm sure that doesn't doom them, there are many guys that would. If long legged blondes never got dates, however, it would be easy to say that long legged blondes are not attractive to most men, but pinpointing a specific thing is never that easy. 

I suppose I am most puzzled by the extremes. I am puzzled by those that most people would consider nice looking and normal, but they never seem to attract a lot of attention from the opposite sex. On the other hand, the ones who are Quasimoto with a rude personality, but attract women like flies. 

I always wondered, what ingredient does Quasimoto have that the other guy is missing, but it's never easy to describe.


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## soccermom2three

I don't have a preference for hair or eye color or height but the guy would have to look like he takes care of himself, physically and hygienically.

Confidence and sense of humor is really important. My husband has both of these. It's harder to describe what type of sense of humor. Not mean of course, but maybe light teasing. My husband is really quick with one liners when people least expect it. I don't know how he does it.


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## firebelly1

southbound said:


> I think this one is on every woman's list. In your opinion, how is the confidence displayed, and how would someone who is not confident act?
> 
> *Ikaika is on to something - confidence is about being okay with who you are no matter what other people think. And confidence is different than arrogance. People display confidence when they express their opinions in a matter-of-fact way. They aren't couching it with "is that okay with you" vocal tones. They aren't holding back on expressing those opinions because they think the listener won't agree. When the listener expresses disagreement, their response is emotionally neutral.
> 
> One thing that says "confidence" to me is a man who, when we are setting up a date, suggests a restaurant. He doesn't start with asking me where I want to go, he makes a suggestion first and then asks if I think I might like to go there. *
> 
> Again, I think this one is on every woman's list. What kind of "make me laugh" do you like, the Jim Carey type, or a more sophisticated humor?
> 
> *Everyone's sense of humor is different. I love intelligent humor that points out the absurdity of life. My favorite comedians are Louis C.K. and Steve Martin. I also LOVE Jon Stewart. I think they are literally geniuses. I think Dave Chapelle is a genius too but his humor is too dark for me.
> 
> Political satire is a serious turn-on for me. Jon Stewart has just the right amount of intelligence, humor and good looks where every time I watch him I secretly wish I could marry him.*


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## soccermom2three

Quasimoto is either rich or he isn't boring.


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## always_alone

Faithful Wife said:


> Is it really that mysterious? Don't you find some women have sex appeal who don't look like your average beautiful actress?


The more I read TAM, the more I get the impression that many men really don't see anything but celebrity beauty as sexually appealing. The rest of us are ignored, or what they settle for if they can't get better.

Maybe many women are the same, as Burt Reynolds and Tom Selleck really were all of that in those days --even though my own take is more similar to NobodySpecial.

I find the smarmy arrogance of that type (also Brad Pitt, David Beckham) a complete turn-off.

Body-type-wise, I like lean and athletic. Vibe, though, is way more important. Interesting is a must! As is a good heart.


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## Ikaika

southbound said:


> I understand what you all are saying in that "it isn't such a mystery." For example, if you don't like long legged blondes, I'm sure that doesn't doom them, there are many guys that would. If long legged blondes never got dates, however, it would be easy to say that long legged blondes are not attractive to most men, but pinpointing a specific thing is never that easy.
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose I am most puzzled by the extremes. I am puzzled by those that most people would consider nice looking and normal, but they never seem to attract a lot of attention from the opposite sex. On the other hand, the ones who are Quasimoto with a rude personality, but attract women like flies.
> 
> 
> 
> I always wondered, what ingredient does Quasimoto have that the other guy is missing, but it's never easy to describe.



I guess I didn't explain myself well enough to suggest what I think may be considered attractive. 

I think it easy to assume some guys attract ALL the women. I don't believe that to be necessarily true and I believe this is a rumor, especially here on TAM, that is perpetuated. I think some guys attract certain women, but not all. We all have our types, those we find attractive. I think within this Ven there are features that may make a person more attractive. I simply suggest that there is a matter of some feature (not always physical) that help: Being yourself and being confident with who you are goes a long way.


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## southbound

firebelly1 said:


> Originally Posted by southbound View Post
> I think this one is on every woman's list. In your opinion, how is the confidence displayed, and how would someone who is not confident act?
> 
> Ikaika is on to something - confidence is about being okay with who you are no matter what other people think. And confidence is different than arrogance. People display confidence when they express their opinions in a matter-of-fact way. They aren't couching it with "is that okay with you" vocal tones. They aren't holding back on expressing those opinions because they think the listener won't agree. When the listener expresses disagreement, their response is emotionally neutral.
> 
> One thing that says "confidence" to me is a man who, when we are setting up a date, suggests a restaurant. He doesn't start with asking me where I want to go, he makes a suggestion first and then asks if I think I might like to go there.
> 
> Again, I think this one is on every woman's list. What kind of "make me laugh" do you like, the Jim Carey type, or a more sophisticated humor?
> 
> Everyone's sense of humor is different. I love intelligent humor that points out the absurdity of life. My favorite comedians are Louis C.K. and Steve Martin. I also LOVE Jon Stewart. I think they are literally geniuses. I think Dave Chapelle is a genius too but his humor is too dark for me.
> 
> Political satire is a serious turn-on for me. Jon Stewart has just the right amount of intelligence, humor and good looks where every time I watch him I secretly wish I could marry him.


So, when it comes to confidence, you would like a guy to at least make a suggestion. If he is always saying, "Whatever you want, or, it doesn't matter to me," I suppose that would be a turn off. 

If you are picking out colors for your house, you want him to actually give suggestions and not just say, "whatever you want is fine."


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## Ikaika

southbound said:


> If you are picking out colors for your house, you want him to actually give suggestions and not just say, "whatever you want is fine."



BTW, this is true in reverse. I was never interested in women who were not confident enough to provide their opinion. I'm not their father or master.


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## always_alone

soccermom2three said:


> Quasimoto is either rich or he isn't boring.


Or he is attracting women with low self esteem and self-destructive impulses.


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## firebelly1

southbound said:


> So, when it comes to confidence, you would like a guy to at least make a suggestion. If he is always saying, "Whatever you want, or, it doesn't matter to me," I suppose that would be a turn off.
> 
> If you are picking out colors for your house, you want him to actually give suggestions and not just say, "whatever you want is fine."


YES. A man who defers to me aka kisses my a$$ is a turn off. And yes, the paint color example hits close to home. 

I had a bf once that was a great "good guy." He listened to me. He cooked for me. In the morning he would ask me what I thought we should do for dinner and would I like him to pick up anything from the store. It was awesome as I'd never had a bf like that, but after a while I felt smothered and turned off. It was too much. I wanted him to have his own interests and opinions. 

I want a man to have opinions and to express them whether I agree with them or not and be able to handle it emotionally if I don't agree. I want him to have his own interests. Of course I want him to be considerate of me too - but it should be a balance.


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## Openminded

Before my recent divorce, I hadn't dated in almost 50 years but I now find myself dating the same type I dated then. What was and is important to me is intelligence and confidence and personality. Quick wit (which I lack) is very appealing. If all of that comes with a handsome face that's great. But the handsome face is not essential. The other things are.


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## soccermom2three

southbound said:


> So, when it comes to confidence, you would like a guy to at least make a suggestion. If he is always saying, "Whatever you want, or, it doesn't matter to me," I suppose that would be a turn off.
> 
> If you are picking out colors for your house, you want him to actually give suggestions and not just say, "whatever you want is fine."


Ha, this is happening in our house right now. We are re-doing our bedroom with new paint and furniture and he definitely gives his input. I don't mind it, as long as I get my way.


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## Ikaika

soccermom2three said:


> Ha, this is happening in our house right now. We are re-doing our bedroom with new paint and furniture and he definitely gives his input. I don't mind it, as long as I get my way.



Haha, this would be a problem... When we remodeled, we hired a contractor for the stuff that required a building permit. The repainting of the house was left to me. While I appreciated her input and the input of the boys, I was the painter


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## firebelly1

soccermom2three said:


> Ha, this is happening in our house right now. We are re-doing our bedroom with new paint and furniture and he definitely gives his input. I don't mind it, as long as I get my way.


I respect that attitude  but I really and truly don't want to just get my way. I want him to like it too. I want it to be our home, not mine that he just lives in and when he refuses to express an opinion, I feel like he is not participating in the relationship.

I get that some guys think they don't care how the house is decorated. But I see those same types of guys on HGTV THRILLED when they get a man cave that's decorated in their favorite sports team's theme. So I think guys care, it just may not be worth the hassle of conflict. But when a guy avoids conflict for the sake of avoiding conflict, he is not fully present in the relationship and that feels lonely.


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## Mr.Fisty

My confidence is no matter what I will be fine. I know I have my good qualities, and I feel secure enough to know when I have my flaws presented, and work on them. I am not the rugged type and will not attract women that are attracted to those types. For a guy, I have high cheek bones, long lashes, dimples and not much body hair. I am skinny athletic. So women who are attracted to body builders will not be attracted to me. I do have a dark sense of humor, and sometimes offensive. Girls that are attracted to me love my playful nature, and my adventurous side.

An example of my humor I gave on this site a couple weeks ago.

"A blow up doll would make a great girlfriend. Whenever I pull down my pants, she always has a shock look on her face."

That is some of my tamer ones, I am a lot more offensive in real life and if I were to joke around, I would be banned.

Another joke I made on this site.

"He's been c0ckblocked so often that the blood doesn't flow to the correct head."

That is tame for me. 

Some women find me offensive, and some find me offensive and highly attractive.


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## norajane

My SO has always attracted women easily, and I've known many guys like that over the years. One or two of those guys were good looking, but most were not "pretty" or "handsome" or "hot." 

They didn't have any universal character traits, except maybe for intelligence and clever humor. Most of all, though, they all had a real appreciation of women, love for women, respect for women, and interest and delight in all kinds of women. 

That doesn't mean they put women on a pedestal, or were doormats who did everything to make women like them. They just treated women like they were interesting and wanted to know them on the inside. Their attitude when meeting women and when around women is what draws women to them.

I've known my SO for almost 30 years. He truly "has them at hello." His guy friends have no idea why he attracts women so easily, since he's more rugged than handsome or stylish, he's not an extrovert life of the party, nor is he flashy with cash or overtly charming. It's in the way he looks into a woman's eyes and smiles upon an introduction, as though he sees into her and really wants to know more.


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## southbound

Let me give the example of my brother.

He is 40 years old and has never had a serious relationship. Sure, he has dated, but nothing serious. He is around 6'0", nice looking, slim-muscular build, good job, has money(but he doesn't advertise it), has a great sense of humor, and there is nothing weird about him that i can think of. 

As for confidence, If he met Jennifer Aniston, I believe he could ask her out and not bat an eye. 

I've heard him say, "for everyone that's not available, they think I'm awesome, but single, available people just don't seem interested."

Ok, I get that regardless of how one looks or who they are, there are those that won't find them attractive, they might even vomit at the thought of him, but where is the group that should have thought he was attractive? I find it odd that one woman in 40 years hasn't come along who thinks he hung the moon. 

So, I always wondered what ingredient he lacked; there is nothing i can identify, and that is a puzzle to me. He's not the only person in this similar situation that I have known in my life. 

Those are the ones i don't understand. Then, I turn a corner and there is some goof ball with a hot woman on his arm.


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## norajane

always_alone said:


> The more I read TAM, the more I get the impression that many men really don't see anything but celebrity beauty as sexually appealing. The rest of us are ignored, or what they settle for if they can't get better.


The men I've known who attract women easily are not like that. They see beauty in all woman, and actually do want to know women from the inside out.


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## thefam

Some men and women just have that "it" factor. They draw people even when normally the person would not have been attracted to their physical traits. Chic magnets for men. I don't know the term I would use for women like that.


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## Ikaika

southbound said:


> Let me give the example of my brother.
> 
> 
> 
> He is 40 years old and has never had a serious relationship. Sure, he has dated, but nothing serious. He is around 6'0", nice looking, slim-muscular build, good job, has money(but he doesn't advertise it), has a great sense of humor, and there is nothing weird about him that i can think of.
> 
> 
> 
> As for confidence, If he met Jennifer Aniston, I believe he could ask her out and not bat an eye.
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard him say, "for everyone that's not available, they think I'm awesome, but single, available people just don't seem interested."
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I get that regardless of how one looks or who they are, there are those that won't find them attractive, they might even vomit at the thought of him, but where is the group that should have thought he was attractive? I find it odd that one woman in 40 years hasn't come along who thinks he hung the moon.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I always wondered what ingredient he lacked; there is nothing i can identify, and that is a puzzle to me. He's not the only person in this similar situation that I have known in my life.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the ones i don't understand. Then, I turn a corner and there is some goof ball with a hot woman on his arm.



I don't know what to suggest. I wouldn't call myself a Quasimodo or a Tom Selleck. I wouldn't suggest I attracted all women like bees to honey. But, in for far as women who I shared a mutual attraction, dates were not a struggle. 

I figured any woman who was not attracted to me was not worth me worrying about and I simply was friendly with those who were. So I don't know?


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## firebelly1

southbound said:


> Let me give the example of my brother.
> 
> He is 40 years old and has never had a serious relationship. Sure, he has dated, but nothing serious. He is around 6'0", nice looking, slim-muscular build, good job, has money(but he doesn't advertise it), has a great sense of humor, and there is nothing weird about him that i can think of.
> 
> As for confidence, If he met Jennifer Aniston, I believe he could ask her out and not bat an eye.
> 
> I've heard him say, "for everyone that's not available, they think I'm awesome, but single, available people just don't seem interested."
> 
> Ok, I get that regardless of how one looks or who they are, there are those that won't find them attractive, they might even vomit at the thought of him, but where is the group that should have thought he was attractive? I find it odd that one woman in 40 years hasn't come along who thinks he hung the moon.
> 
> So, I always wondered what ingredient he lacked; there is nothing i can identify, and that is a puzzle to me. He's not the only person in this similar situation that I have known in my life.
> 
> Those are the ones i don't understand. Then, I turn a corner and there is some goof ball with a hot woman on his arm.


Hm. That is puzzling. But are you aware of every interaction your brother has ever had with a woman? Is he attracted to women who are "out of his league"? There's got to be an explanation that may not have anything to do with his confidence or attractiveness. He might be a bad communicator or kisser. I'd ask women who know him what they think.


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## norajane

southbound said:


> Let me give the example of my brother.
> 
> He is 40 years old and has never had a serious relationship. Sure, he has dated, but nothing serious. He is around 6'0", nice looking, slim-muscular build, good job, has money(but he doesn't advertise it), has a great sense of humor, and there is nothing weird about him that i can think of.
> 
> As for confidence, If he met Jennifer Aniston, I believe he could ask her out and not bat an eye.
> 
> I've heard him say, "for everyone that's not available, they think I'm awesome, but single, available people just don't seem interested."
> 
> Ok, I get that regardless of how one looks or who they are, there are those that won't find them attractive, they might even vomit at the thought of him, but where is the group that should have thought he was attractive? I find it odd that one woman in 40 years hasn't come along who thinks he hung the moon.
> 
> So, I always wondered what ingredient he lacked; there is nothing i can identify, and that is a puzzle to me. He's not the only person in this similar situation that I have known in my life.
> 
> Those are the ones i don't understand. Then, I turn a corner and there is some goof ball with a hot woman on his arm.


Well, the first question I'd have is "does he really want a long term relationship?" Is he afraid of commitment? Does he have intimacy issues? A lot of great people (on the outside) have some relationship issues that cause them to self-sabotage or prevent them from getting close to people.


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## ConanHub

norajane said:


> My SO has always attracted women easily, and I've known many guys like that over the years. One or two of those guys were good looking, but most were not "pretty" or "handsome" or "hot."
> 
> They didn't have any universal character traits, except maybe for intelligence and clever humor. Most of all, though, they all had a real appreciation of women, love for women, respect for women, and interest and delight in all kinds of women.
> 
> That doesn't mean they put women on a pedestal, or were doormats who did everything to make women like them. They just treated women like they were interesting and wanted to know them on the inside. Their attitude when meeting women and when around women is what draws women to them.
> 
> I've known my SO for almost 30 years. He truly "has them at hello." His guy friends have no idea why he attracts women so easily, since he's more rugged than handsome or stylish, he's not an extrovert life of the party, nor is he flashy with cash or overtly charming. It's in the way he looks into a woman's eyes and smiles upon an introduction, as though he sees into her and really wants to know more.


Super insightful!


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## soccermom2three

firebelly1 said:


> Hm. That is puzzling. But are you aware of every interaction your brother has ever had with a woman? Is he attracted to women who are "out of his league"? There's got to be an explanation that may not have anything to do with his confidence or attractiveness. He might be a bad communicator or kisser. I'd ask women who know him what they think.


I was thinking along the same line. Maybe he's super picky, unrealistic or has really high standards that no woman can meet. I've known guy friends that are similar. I bet your brother has dated some wonderful women but maybe one little thing turned him off and he nexted her without giving her a 2nd chance.


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## ConanHub

norajane said:


> The men I've known who attract women easily are not like that. They see beauty in all woman, and actually do want to know women from the inside out.


Holy crap Nora! You are a guru on this subject. Your statements are really hitting home here.


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## always_alone

soccermom2three said:


> I was thinking along the same line. Maybe he's super picky, unrealistic or has really high standards that no woman can meet. I've known guy friends that are similar. I bet your brother has dated some wonderful women but maybe one little thing turned him off and he nexted her without giving her a 2nd chance.


:iagree:. 

All of the men I know who are chronically single are so for fairly obvious (to me) reasons.

Mostly it's that they choose to be so by pushing away any viable candidates.


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## Ikaika

I think about how I met my wife. A co-worker (we will call A) of mine wanted to set her friend (we will call J) up with another co-worker (we will call E). So an after work night out with co-workers, A had brought her friend J to meet E. Anyway, E talked with J and E was certainly better looking than me. But, I could tell the conversation struggled and was awkward. Was E expecting more from J? I don't know but I found J attractive and at my first opportunity asked her to dance and we talked. I was actively dating other women but no commitment, nonetheless I asked her for her number but instead she took my number and two days later she called and asked me out. 

In time, I found her to stand out from all other dates and women I had known and the rest is history, we will be married 20 years later this month. We still find each other interesting and attracted to each other. We are ourselves and don't try to be someone else. We are both relatively independent while we also share a lot in common. We are individuals but also companions. In my humble opinion, I believe it is a balance between being who you are and what you share with those women/men you are attracted to.


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## skype

South:
We can only guess at the reasons, but I'm thinking that your brother is a loner who does not want the compromises involved in a relationship. Women recognize this, and do not continue to date him.

As far as why some seemingly unattractive men get female attention, I think that persistence is the answer. They have the attitude of "Next!" and do not take rejection personally. They know that there are women out there who will be attracted to them, and they keep pursuing until they find them. That is true confidence.


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## Ikaika

skype said:


> South:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as why some seemingly unattractive men get female attention, I think that persistence is the answer. They have the attitude of "Next!" and do not take rejection personally. They know that there are women out there who will be attracted to them, and they keep pursuing until they find them. That is true confidence.



Yep, this is it. Totally agree.


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## soccermom2three

skype said:


> South:
> We can only guess at the reasons, but I'm thinking that your brother is a loner who does not want the compromises involved in a relationship. Women recognize this, and do not continue to date him.


This is my brother. He's 46 and never had a LTR. At this point, I think he is comfortable just being alone. He can do anything he wants, when he wants.


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## ConanHub

always_alone said:


> The more I read TAM, the more I get the impression that many men really don't see anything but celebrity beauty as sexually appealing. The rest of us are ignored, or what they settle for if they can't get better.


If that is true, and it may be, there are also a lot of us that see differently. I notice beauty, who doesn't, but as far as attraction goes?

I have had to excuse myself from a church group early because of the electric, overpowering attraction I immediately felt for a woman that was a bit overweight somewhat plain and wearing some pretty boring clothes. 

The attraction was mutual and had me in the danger zone in seconds.

I tried to attend that particular groups meeting one more time. The attraction was still there and worse than ever. I had to change groups to avoid her.

She had nothing physically on my wife. My wife has a very amazing body and always dresses attractively.

I don't know if it was just me. Sometimes I think there is something intangible that attracts.

There was another girl at a restaurant that I frequented that had no single attractive feature, except long beautiful hair.

I could not keep my eyes off her. She could have given lessons on how to move. Every inch of her exuded femininity. As a whole, she was very beautiful even though she was a combination of unattractive features. She was the only woman worth watching and there were very physically attractive women working with her that could not put out the "gravity" she seemed to effortlessly possess.

She was blissfully confident. Unaware and unconcerned about what attention was coming her way or not.


----------



## southbound

soccermom2three said:


> This is my brother. He's 46 and never had a LTR. At this point, I think he is comfortable just being alone. He can do anything he wants, when he wants.


I don't know that I would call my brother a loner, but he doesn't crave people interaction. At this point, he too is fine with being single and doing what he wants when he wants.

So, do you feel your brother just puts off a vibe that he's happy being single and, therefore, doesn't attract much attention?


----------



## lucy999

southbound said:


> I have become fascinated over the years as to what women find attractive in men. Do you feel that some guys just attract women without even trying? They just have this aura over them that says, "come get me, I'm interesting," even though they may not be the stereotypical hunk? Have you experienced this yourself?


I gravitate toward the bad boy, heavily tattooed, blue collar man. Doesn't have to be built like a MMF fighter or anything, in fact I prefer some meat on the bones. An initial physical attraction piques my interest. But that only lasts for a split second. If they're a dou*hebag, forget it. I want to know how they behave, think, believe, and treat others and if it's not in line with me, N.E.X.T.

My first date with my current BF told me alot. We were eating in a college joint, and young woman clearly under the influence of something (we theorized ecstasy or shrooms), came over to our table and chatted us up. She helped herself to my BF's french fries right off his plate! He smiled and said to her, "They're really good, aren't they?" ***swoooooon***!!!! Boy did I stand up and take notice.

If the man shows respect to every walk of life, be it a server, a bartender, a cab driver, or the POTUS, he's got my attention. 

If he makes me laugh, he's in! I am attracted to super dry one liners, quick wit, and crude and offensive jokes (within reason; but I'm no fragile flower. I'm a fan of South Park and Dave Chappelle).

A decisive man who takes action without being wishy washy or mealy-mouthed is attractive. Sure, ask me what I'd like to do or where I'd like to eat, but have a plan. I enjoy the subservient role and letting the man be in the driver's seat. I also appreciate someone who can engage in a lively debate and agree to disagree without being a d*ck. That shows maturity.

So yes, I feel that both men _and _ women can possess the "it" factor w/out being a stereotypical hunk or hottie. 

I have experienced this myself. Said with all humility, while I think I'm easy on the eyes, I'm not your traditional hottie. I think my confidence, never-met-a-stranger attitude, and laughter bring the men around to take a closer look.


----------



## ConanHub

Very smooth and confident. I think I love your BF too lucy!


----------



## soccermom2three

southbound said:


> I don't know that I would call my brother a loner, but he doesn't crave people interaction. At this point, he too is fine with being single and doing what he wants when he wants.
> 
> So, do you feel your brother just puts off a vibe that he's happy being single and, therefore, doesn't attract much attention?


Maybe he has a vibe he puts off. I know he works with a lot of women and I'm surprised no one has snatch him up but then he doesn't tell me everything about his life. 

I do think my brother is lazy when it comes to relationships. He doesn't want to work at it. That could be a combination of witnessing my parent's marriage and finding out about my dad's affair. I don't think he's even actively dating or trying to meet women anymore. He won't even open a FB account because then he has to interact and be fake with people that he doesn't really care about. He has his circle of friends that have the same interests and enjoy the same activities and he's happy with that. I know my Mom gets concerned because she doesn't want him to be lonely or alone when he's old.

ETA: Just thinking more about my brother. Maybe he thinks relationships are more of a pain in the ass and why bother than some something fulfilling and enjoyable?


----------



## norajane

> ETA: Just thinking more about my brother. Maybe he thinks relationships are more of a pain in the ass and why bother than some something fulfilling and enjoyable?


You have to put something of yourself into a relationshihp for it to be fulfilling and enjoyable. Not everyone wants to, or is able to, give of themselves.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

> *Mr.Fisty said*: My confidence is no matter what I will be fine. I know I have my good qualities, and I feel secure enough to know when I have my flaws presented, and work on them. I am not the rugged type and will not attract women that are attracted to those types. For a guy, I have high cheek bones, long lashes, dimples and not much body hair. I am skinny athletic. So women who are attracted to body builders will not be attracted to me. I do have a dark sense of humor, and sometimes offensive.


 You sound like my Husband here.. all of those things I DO find attractive.. I've always went for the lanky ones.. I prefer little chest hair.. thinking back to my teenage yrs... my Best friend & me ...we'd have the funniest conversations about guys....she had it BAD for Paul Stanley from Kiss...all that chest hair, she wanted to run her fingers through it...... just didn't do it for me.. I'll take the bare chested one over there.. 










What I look for...someone who can have a deep conversation/ just be their authentic self.... not afraid to mention his flaws, showing some vulnerability, laughing at some of his mistakes even...not trying to impress, also engaged to show interest in me.. that back & forth... to see if we have enough spark...something to play on.. 

If a man seems tremendously AT EASE WITH WOMEN...eating that up...I'd probably look at him sideways as a Player.....at the very least a smooth talker (some men just know HOW to play it up and get the women eating out of their hands, doesn't mean they are authentic at all)... then I'd think....if he's really good looking, been single a long time...he obviously enjoys his bachelorhood..basically entertaining many women....next conclusion...must not be the "long term commitment" type....that in itself would be a turn off to me.

Give me the more Romantic sensitive Gentleman looking for love... yes...any day.. even if a little more socially awkward.. his character /history would mean more to me over his social skills out & about.. he could very well be worth getting to know, taking that time. 

The thing with confidence can be tricky...a man with *quiet confidence * would be the more attractive to someone like me... that doesn't always mean someone very social either.. some are introverted and don't put themselves out there like the extroverted. It even goes further IF someone else uplifts him -where he didn't even let on about this or that... 

Sense of Humor...People can be so varied here...in what does it for them... I appreciate a man who can captivate you with *a story*...not so much one who is a good one -liner...sometimes people joke so much you can't always tell when they are serious...not something I care for.... .I want to be able to enjoy serious discussions, which also can have moments of laughter .. as well as find humor in real life scenarios....some crude humor, toilet humor....it's all GOOD!

Looks do matter to me.. I guess I am shallow... I care more about this over what a man earns or does for a living.. but in all things.. is he sound.. can he live within his means...and would WE be compatible.. 

I like this saying.. because I believe it to be very true..


----------



## Mr.Fisty

SimplyAmorous said:


> You sound like my Husband here.. all of those things I DO find attractive.. I've always went for the lanky ones.. I prefer little chest hair.. thinking back to my teenage yrs... my Best friend & me ...we'd have the funniest conversations about guys....she had it BAD for Paul Stanley from Kiss...all that chest hair, she wanted to run her fingers through it...... just didn't do it for me.. I'll take the bare chested one over there..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I look for...someone who can have a deep conversation/ just be their authentic self.... not afraid to mention his flaws, showing some vulnerability, laughing at some of his mistakes even...not trying to impress, also engaged to show interest in me.. that back & forth... to see if we have enough spark...something to play on..
> 
> If a man seems tremendously AT EASE WITH WOMEN...eating that up...I'd probably look at him sideways as a Player.....at the very least a smooth talker (some men just know HOW to play it up and get the women eating out of their hands, doesn't mean they are authentic at all)... then I'd think....if he's really good looking, been single a long time...he obviously enjoys his bachelorhood..basically entertaining many women....next conclusion...must not be the "long term commitment" type....that in itself would be a turn off to me.
> 
> Give me the more Romantic sensitive Gentleman looking for love... yes...any day.. even if a little more socially awkward.. his character /history would mean more to me over his social skills out & about.. he could very well be worth getting to know, taking that time.
> 
> The thing with confidence can be tricky...a man with *quiet confidence * would be the more attractive to someone like me... that doesn't always mean someone very social either.. some are introverted and don't put themselves out there like the extroverted. It even goes further IF someone else uplifts him -where he didn't even let on about this or that...
> 
> Sense of Humor...People can be so varied here...in what does it for them... I appreciate a man who can captivate you with *a story*...not so much one who is a good one -liner...sometimes people joke so much you can't always tell when they are serious...not something I care for.... .I want to be able to enjoy serious discussions, which also can have moments of laughter .. as well as find humor in real life scenarios....some crude humor, toilet humor....it's all GOOD!
> 
> Looks do matter to me.. I guess I am shallow... I care more about this over what a man earns or does for a living.. but in all things.. is he sound.. can he live within his means...and would WE be compatible..
> 
> I like this saying.. because I believe it to be very true..



I am a metro, pretty boy, with boyish features. I look like I am twenty instead of twenty-six. I love sports, i love doing weird antics, I do have my serious side, and love to help people achieve what is best for them. I want everyone to be healthy and independent. If I were rich, I would create a program for inner city kids to get them interested in math, science, and engineering. 

I follow the beat of my own drums. My musical tastes includes, Hip-Hop, Classical Crossover, Operatic music, Dance, punk rock, Gothic, and some oldies.

My humor is crude.

I am different when it comes to rooting for sports, I root for players, rather than teams.

Some of my other interests are reading, science, art, singing, and dancing. Sometimes i just sit and ponder. Will the universe eventually collapse on itself. Most of the mass of our universe is dark matter, or energy. With our expanding universe, can something expand infinitely, or is there a limit where it will constrict on itself.

I guess I have an adventurous spirit, and like to explore new things.

I am confident because, no matter what, I am happy. I have so many interests and there is not enough life to experience everything. So I can't imagine not finding something to talk about.

Only reason why I joined this site is to help others.


----------



## southbound

After reading this, it confirms that everyone is different. Some like one-liner humor, some like stories; some like smooth confidence that doesn't seem nervous around women, others like the quiet confidence, some like chest hair, some don't, and the list goes on for a mile.

The puzzle I still have are the ones who have no audience, so to speak. I may have mentioned this in another thread, but when I look at lists of things that women suggest a man should and shouldn't do, I often look, and find my brother or myself, far more on the good list than the bad.

I often look at the good list and think I should be a woman magnet according to the list. I think, "Yeah, I do that, and that, and that."

I look at the negative lists and think, "Guys actually do these things, I wouldn't dream of that."


----------



## Ikaika

Haha, SimplyAmorous, I was one of those not so genetically inclined to grow chest hair, a hairless surf rat. Although the guys I have seen with copious amounts of chest hair have just as much back hair. :rofl: I'm not jealous


----------



## SimplyAmorous

You sound VERY WELL ROUNDED Mr Fisty..I'd have to say my H is much less so.... just a simple family man... that's his world....I think of him when I hear that old Skynard song Simple man....

Neither of us care for sports.. we'd rather watch a movie together or something... though it was good to see a couple of our sons take up cross country & win some races....happy for them to have enjoyed the whole "team spirit" thing.. neither of us did any of that in high school... 

I am the reader, more the social butterfly between us....the researcher, the explorer.. the one who brings the adventure ... but even that would be less than you describe! 

He'd like to go see the *Trans-Siberian Orchestra*...I need to look into that & make it happen..they will be in our area on his B-day. 













> *Ikaika said*: *Haha, SimplyAmorous, I was one of those not so genetically inclined to grow chest hair, a hairless surf rat. Although the guys I have seen with copious amounts of chest hair have just as much back hair. :rofl: I'm not jealous *


Yes, a young Ryan Hairless Gosling -that was you once upon a time... Ok.. I'll keep my thoughts to myself.. but Gosling is my favorite actor for obvious reasons..



> *Southbound said*:* After reading this, it confirms that everyone is different. Some like one-liner humor, some like stories; some like smooth confidence that doesn't seem nervous around women, others like the quiet confidence, some like chest hair, some don't, and the list goes on for a mile*.


 Remember that saying you heard in church about trying to understand women.. I found it on you tube...

Yep.. that's the truth! Building a Bridge to Hawaii vs. Understanding Women


----------



## southbound

SimplyAmorous said:


> Remember that saying you heard in church about trying to understand women.. I found it on you tube...
> 
> Yep.. that's the truth! Building a Bridge to Hawaii vs. Understanding Women


I remember. That sure doesn't make it easy for they guys does it. Here is another on by Jerry Seinfeld.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bts28rz0lJ0


----------



## Ikaika

The way I see it there is no fun in knowing all the mysterious about women; for me that would be boring.


----------



## ocotillo

Even among celebrities, what is a stereotypical, "Hunk" body?

Would it be a David Bautista at 6'-6" and 287?

Or would it be a Fred Astaire at 5'-9" and 135 soaking wet?

There are followers of both types and everything in between.


----------



## ConanHub

:lol:SA... You crack me up! LOL! Love your gifs and smilies.


----------



## firebelly1

I still haven't figured out how to add the pics to my post? How do you do that SA?


----------



## heartsbeating

southbound said:


> After reading this, it confirms that everyone is different. Some like one-liner humor, some like stories; some like smooth confidence that doesn't seem nervous around women, others like the quiet confidence, some like chest hair, some don't, and the list goes on for a mile.
> 
> The puzzle I still have are the ones who have no audience, so to speak. I may have mentioned this in another thread, but when I look at lists of things that women suggest a man should and shouldn't do, I often look, and find my brother or myself, far more on the good list than the bad.
> 
> I often look at the good list and think I should be a woman magnet according to the list. I think, "Yeah, I do that, and that, and that."
> 
> I look at the negative lists and think, "Guys actually do these things, I wouldn't dream of that."


What's missing in the written form is body language and vibe.

Lists are one thing, and certain traits we may consider as having allure... but then there's the subtle cues we pick up on, the body language, the feeling of someone's presence, and/or how we feel around them that speaks to us. 

Ever heard someone say 'On paper, they're everything I'm looking for but I'm just not feeling it...'


----------



## SimplyAmorous

firebelly1 said:


> I still haven't figured out how to add the pics to my post? How do you do that SA?


I go to Google images to find pics, or do smiley searches (you'd think I have better things to do with my time.. oh it's fast & easy anyway)... save what you want into a folder..

then go here >> TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing ...You choose the file you want, then the size (from avatar to 17 inch screen size... download it , then copy & paste the "IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards" right into your posts.. 

Some use Photo bucket....I get all kinds of shock wave crashings when I use that in google chrome, not sure why... so I prefer tiny pic..


----------



## ocotillo

A word of caution though. If you require anonymity, do not register an image hosting account using either your given name, your surname or a primary email account.


----------



## Deejo

From Season 2 Episode 6 of Peaky Blinders on Netflix. Two women realize they are waiting for the same man, Thomas Shelby, a gangster played by Cillian Murphy (a short dude).

Grace: "And what is that you want with him?"

Mae: "Same as you, to feel alive."


----------



## TiggyBlue

LOVE Peaky Blinders.


----------



## Deejo

intheory said:


> ^^^^ :iagree:
> 
> That's why I could never do the online dating thing.
> 
> I've got to "feel" the person.


Which is the point of setting up a date ... just like in person. 

I have a friend who women would utterly and absolutely fawn over, right up to the point where he opened his mouth and started talking.


----------



## T&T

Deejo said:


> I have a friend who women would utterly and absolutely fawn over, right up to the point where he opened his mouth and started talking.


:rofl:


----------



## Ikaika

Deejo said:


> Which is the point of setting up a date ... just like in person.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a friend who women would utterly and absolutely fawn over, right up to the point where he opened his mouth and started talking.



I on the other hand open my mouth (over the phone), they want to meet me. They see me in person and find an excuse to leave, "gee, I almost forgot I have a dentist appointment to get a root canal".


----------



## ConanHub

Southbound. Try kittens!

I rescued some abandoned kitties yesterday that were left outside my hotel.

The twentysomething hotel receptionist pretty much melted and struck up a long conversation with me and took it upon herself to walk with me around the block to locate one of the cats.

There was admiration in her voice and eyes.

So try kitties!:smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

Attraction is really subjective. No two people are the same.

I have crushed on some traditional looking hunks and some not-so-traditionally handsome guys. There are guys my sister has said are ugly or "strange" looking to whom I've been attracted. Sometimes it's just seeing how a guy helps an old lady cross the street or speak highly about his sister/mother/lover. 

You know what else is sexy?

The brain. 

Intelligence. Intellect. Smarts. Some people also just have that "it" about them. It could be the most mundane thing. 

I remember there was a SUPER nerd in high school who I thought was sooo freaking cute. He always looked like a frightened hamster whenever I spoke to him but it was so adorable. He was smarter than anyone in class and effortlessly solved the most insane problems in the blink of an eye. We had our high school reunion and he rsvp'ed he was going. I was so excited to see him but he didn't show. One other classically "handsome" guy was there and is now a doctor. Chicks were fawning all over him but I was sad wondering what happened to the mad little scientist. He was not "cute" by most standards but he had a brain that was on fire and I was into it. Also his social awkwardness was endearing.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening all
I do not believe that people have "leagues". No one is "out of my league" or anyone else's. 



firebelly1 said:


> Hm. That is puzzling. But are you aware of every interaction your brother has ever had with a woman? Is he attracted to women who are "out of his league"? There's got to be an explanation that may not have anything to do with his confidence or attractiveness. He might be a bad communicator or kisser. I'd ask women who know him what they think.


----------



## Deejo

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> I do not believe that people have "leagues". No one is "out of my league" or anyone else's.


Correct. As long as there isn't more than a 2 point deviance between either partner's sex rank.


----------



## Fozzy

I attract tons of women. They're just the kind of woman who'd never admit to being attracted to me.


----------



## Middle of Everything

Jellybeans said:


> Attraction is really subjective. No two people are the same.
> 
> I have crushed on some traditional looking hunks and some not-so-traditionally handsome guys. There are guys my sister has said are ugly or "strange" looking who I've been attracted. Sometimes it's just seeing how a guy helps an old lady cross the street or speak highly about his sister/mother/lover.
> 
> You know what else is sexy?
> 
> The brain.
> 
> Intelligence. Intellect. Smarts. Some people also just have that "it" about them. It could be the most mundane thing.
> 
> I remember there was a SUPER nerd in high school who I thought was sooo freaking cute. He always looked like a frightened hamster whenever I spoke to him but it was so adorable. He was smarter than anyone in class and effortlessly solve the most insane problems in the blink of an eye. We had our high school reunion and he rsvp'ed he was going. I was so excited to see him but he didn't show. One other classically "handsome" guy was there and is now a doctor. Chicks were fawning all over him but I was sad wondering what happened to the mad little scientist. He was not "cute" by most standards but he had a brain that was on fire and I was into it. Also his social awkwardness was endearing.


Why didnt you go to my high school?
While I dont think im mad scientist smart, Im smart enough. and frightened hamster is probably an apt description for me around girls in high school as well.

Hell maybe I was just blind and some girl in high school thought I was so adorable too. If they did though I really just wish she would have shoved her boobs in my face and saved us a lot of trouble. :smthumbup:


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening MiddleofEverything
I was also a "frightened hamster". My memory is pretty good though, and looking back I can see lots of signs that girls were interested in me, but i was so dense / insecure the I didn't realize their attention for what it was. 

Oh for a time machine...ray:




Middle of Everything said:


> Why didnt you go to my high school?
> While I dont think im mad scientist smart, Im smart enough. and frightened hamster is probably an apt description for me around girls in high school as well.
> 
> Hell maybe I was just blind and some girl in high school thought I was so adorable too. If they did though I really just wish she would have shoved her boobs in my face and saved us a lot of trouble. :smthumbup:


----------



## ConanHub

intheory said:


> Yeah, I know. But it still wouldn't work for me.
> 
> Your online profiles are compatible, you talk online, or even on the phone.
> 
> Then you meet; and within 2 minutes you just know that it's not going to happen.
> 
> Then it's very, very awkward, with both of you trying not to hurt the other's feelings.
> 
> Or, worse, one person "feels it", and the other doesn't.
> 
> Grueling, awful; no thanks.


I am wired the same way. There is a feeling I get from women or a vibe that peaks my interest and then I get to know them enough to see if I want to date.

Deejo just doesn't have the time though. It works for him and others.


----------



## Deejo

Women tend to find social awkwardness 'endearing' for exactly 14 minutes.


----------



## ConanHub

Deejo said:


> Women tend to find social awkwardness 'endearing' for exactly 14 minutes.


Science!


----------



## southbound

I continue to look at things on this forum that women have to deal with in men, and it just blows my mind. I don't have any of those things. I have no baggage other than a divorce. I'm sure that's a red flag within itself, but I must say, I have the tamest one I know of. 

There's no annoying connection with the x, no lingering issues, no weirdness from any other x's to deal with, no money/debt issues, good job, no psycho family members, etc. I can't think of a single thing that i wouldn't want a woman to find out about me.

Wait, I just heard a bump at the door. I'll bet it's all the women who don't want to deal with drama coming to fight over me............Oh, no, it was just the wind. I'll bet if I had a wild past and some drama in my life, though, they'd be lined up.


----------



## lucy999

Don't change!!!! Keep being yourself and someone will find you.


----------



## ConanHub

southbound said:


> I continue to look at things on this forum that women have to deal with in men, and it just blows my mind. I don't have any of those things. I have no baggage other than a divorce. I'm sure that's a red flag within itself, but I must say, I have the tamest one I know of.
> 
> There's no annoying connection with the x, no lingering issues, no weirdness from any other x's to deal with, no money/debt issues, good job, no psycho family members, etc. I can't think of a single thing that i wouldn't want a woman to find out about me.
> 
> Wait, I just heard a bump at the door. I'll bet it's all the women who don't want to deal with drama coming to fight over me............Oh, no, it was just the wind. I'll bet if I had a wild past and some drama in my life, though, they'd be lined up.


Hard to tell from a forum but I am betting you just need a little edge. Something to attract. You sound like you have plenty of characteristics to keep a woman but you need some more in the "catch her" department.

I had the attraction characteristics in spades but had to learn, fast and hard, the characteristics to keep a woman.

You will probably have no trouble keeping her if you can attract and catch her.


----------



## southbound

ConanHub said:


> Hard to tell from a forum but I am betting you just need a little edge. Something to attract. You sound like you have plenty of characteristics to keep a woman but you need some more in the "catch her" department.
> 
> I had the attraction characteristics in spades but had to learn, fast and hard, the characteristics to keep a woman.
> 
> You will probably have no trouble keeping her if you can attract and catch her.


You may be right. I've been on this forum several years, but still not sure I understand this "edge" thing. It seems to me like having the absence of all these negative characteristic that women seem to despise would be enough edge, that and being a normal guy. I know normal may sound dull, but what I mean by that is I don't have any skeletons in the closet or hidden weirdness.


----------



## jld

Southbound, sometimes it's a numbers game. How many women have you asked out since the divorce?


----------



## ConanHub

southbound said:


> You may be right. I've been on this forum several years, but still not sure I understand this "edge" thing. It seems to me like having the absence of all these negative characteristic that women seem to despise would be enough edge, that and being a normal guy. I know normal may sound dull, but what I mean by that is I don't have any skeletons in the closet or hidden weirdness.


An absence of negative is fine but what you need are a couple of good positives and maybe one really well developed strength.

Could be a physical or mental or even emotional trait but it has to stand out about you, something very passionate that might require a good amount of your time.

What are your hobbies and/or interests?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

ConanHub said:


> *Hard to tell from a forum but I am betting you just need a little edge.* Something to attract. You sound like you have plenty of characteristics to keep a woman but you need some more in the "catch her" department.
> 
> *I had the attraction characteristics in spades but had to learn, fast and hard, the characteristics to keep a woman*.
> 
> You will probably have no trouble keeping her if you can attract and catch her.


Hey ConanHub.. I've like to hear you describe YOUR EDGE.. maybe Southbound can take a shot too.. the subject of one of my threads yrs ago...








http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...your-edge-can-you-explain-have-you-grown.html


----------



## ConanHub

SimplyAmorous said:


> Hey ConanHub.. I've like to hear you describe YOUR EDGE.. maybe Southbound can take a shot too.. the subject of one of my threads yrs ago...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...your-edge-can-you-explain-have-you-grown.html


Back in my dating days I was in top physical condition, I dressed to accentuate my body. I also was very well groomed and took a lot of care of my appearance. Vain? Yes but I drew them in droves! I also can sing well and have put on more than one performance in a crowded tavern.



I also rode a motorcycle back then. (I know. Stereotype huh?)

I guess I have retained most of those traits and added to them over the years. I am not as pretty as I was in my twenties, who is? But still look good and healthy. I have always been absolutely fearless and confident with the opposite sex and I have never been pushy or a bully.

I know the last two are an absence of a negative but they helped.

I caught more women than I knew what to do with and trust me, I did not know what to do with them after I caught them! LOL!

Mrs. Conan was tenacious and really held on to me while I learned how to be generous and giving and tender.

Women are attracted initially by something that excites them or gets their blood moving. Not all are the same of course and some women will catch you doing something good or valiant/self sacrificing and they will be yours for the taking. Those instances are magic but few and far between.

The key is to find some edge that you can really put your effort into, something that you love doing or someone you love being. That way you will attract a woman that will love the genuine you.


----------



## ConanHub

P.S. I am refining my definitions and my understanding of them.

I was way more of a bad ass than a bad boy. I tried being an all out bad boy for maybe six months and it broke my heart. Was not me.

So I actually was not a bad boy. I was and still am a card carrying bad ass.


----------



## southbound

ConanHub said:


> An absence of negative is fine but what you need are a couple of good positives and maybe one really well developed strength.
> 
> Could be a physical or mental or even emotional trait but it has to stand out about you, something very passionate that might require a good amount of your time.
> 
> What are your hobbies and/or interests?


I'm 46, and I think I'm stuck with knowing what was displayed before me as relationship material when I was growing up, and what people seem to want in a relationship today. I grew up and live in a rural area. 

I mentioned in another thread that "rules of expression change with generations." What I meant by that was this: I'm sure wanting to feel special and loved is timeless, but I think how people expect others to show it changes.

My grandmother and great aunts, for example, liked the fact that their men were workers who would put a roof over their heads and food on the table. They also liked the fact that they were good men of principal; they never had to worry about being cheated on or anything of that nature. I've heard them make comments about how they loved them that would almost bring tears to your eyes, but it was always about something simple; probably things that would seem corny today.

I'm not saying that women no longer want those things, but among some, it seems like those characteristics are nothing special. These days men need and "edge," something that "excites" the woman. Today it's about vacations, sky diving, vacations, and such as that.

It may not be so much about the "stuff" as it is the fact that she wanted it and he got it for her; therefore, he must really love her!

What is my edge or hobbies. I don't really have many hobbies. I work and relax. I can sing the phone book, and many women have told me I'm funny. One married lady at work told me she often thinks of me when she is watching tv. She says that someone will say something funny and she thinks it sounds like something I would say. 

Although nothing about me appears weirdly old fashioned on the surface, I guess I'm just not the modern man deep down. I can't excite a woman on a first date by telling her about bicycling across the country, sky diving, mountain climbing, or some other exciting adventure, because i don't do that stuff. 

I might add that I am not unhappy with myself; I'm happy as a lark in life. I do what makes me happy, it just doesn't excite many other people, but I'm not complaining.


----------



## jld

jld said:


> Southbound, sometimes it's a numbers game. How many women have you asked out since the divorce?


Southbound, could you respond to this, please?


----------



## ConanHub

Might be some good catches in a church. You should start pouring yourself into an interest that you have.

Make it a priority and don't just rest after work. Find a group that shares your interests.

Also.... Answer jld....


----------



## jld

Totally agree about gals from church. That would be your target area for the kind of woman who would most appreciate you.


----------



## southbound

jld said:


> Southbound, sometimes it's a numbers game. How many women have you asked out since the divorce?


Sorry, I overlooked this before. The answer to your question is, zero. Now, before you fall out of your chair and wonder why all the comments, let me say that I often forget what I post on open forum and what I chat about in PMs.

I've discovered after my divorce that I'm actually quite happy being single. I don't feel lonely and all that stuff. 

Aside from my x wife wanting a divorce after 18 years because she was no longer happy, I suppose my puzzle stems from this: 

I'm 46 and was married at age 24. Up to that point, there was usually someone available that showed interest. They either showed it personally, or word was passed along. Someone would say, "Hey, Janie likes you and wants to go out with you." 

I'm not going to overstate that and pretend i was Elvis, by no means, but there was enough. Now that I'm single, that type of thing does not exist anymore. You all may be falling out of your seats in laughter, but I hadn't been single since early 20s, and that was my last memory of the process.

I live in a rural area. I'm sure it's no secret that I'm single, and I'm sure it's no secret as to what kind of man I am. It puzzles and irritates me sometimes to hear women complain about what butts some men are, yet they seem to only want to date and marry butts as if nothing else existed.


----------



## FrenchFry

southbound, I probably live your opposite life but the thing I have in common with you is that I'm exceedingly good at being single. I'm happy, I'm self-contained and* I don't really appear to need to be in a relationship. *

The bolded is really important. If I don't put myself out there, I don't have either the vibes or enough contact with various other people to look like I am actually looking for someone to date. The only people that hit on me in this state are people who I should not be dating at all.

You are not on anyones radar, let alone the women that are looking for guys like you. The butts are out there, mingling around and being social. You don't have to be a butt but nobody is going to come chasing after the normal dude who is happy being single.


----------



## southbound

jld said:


> Totally agree about gals from church. That would be your target area for the kind of woman who would most appreciate you.


Nope, not the ones I know. I'm a church guy myself. Sure, church women aren't usually the swinging bar type that like to paint the town every night, but otherwise, I don't see any difference.


----------



## Revamped

Not NEEDING to be in a relationship is different from WANTING to be in a relationship.


----------



## FrenchFry

I agree but from the outside it looks pretty much the same. 

If you aren't taking initiative to be out in the dating world, it looks like you aren't wanting to. Left to my own devices, I work, go home, fart around on the internet and go to sleep. I don't look like I'm interested in changing my plight. I might want to not be single, but I am not taking any steps out of my zone to change it.

This might be the edge that CH was talking about, maybe. For me it looks like--leaving the house and being social in a dance class. Hanging out in a park instead of at home. Asking my co-workers if they want to get a bite to eat after work myself. 

If you are already doing that, it might be as simple as letting your friends know you would like to start dating more.  Getting the word out there that you are "out there."


----------



## southbound

FrenchFry said:


> I agree but from the outside it looks pretty much the same.
> 
> If you aren't taking initiative to be out in the dating world, it looks like you aren't wanting to. Left to my own devices, I work, go home, fart around on the internet and go to sleep. I don't look like I'm interested in changing my plight. I might want to not be single, but I am not taking any steps out of my zone to change it.
> 
> This might be the edge that CH was talking about, maybe. For me it looks like--leaving the house and being social in a dance class. Hanging out in a park instead of at home. Asking my co-workers if they want to get a bite to eat after work myself.
> 
> If you are already doing that, it might be as simple as letting your friends know you would like to start dating more.  Getting the word out there that you are "out there."


I'm sure there's a lot of truth to what you wrote, however, it worked differently for my x wife. You'll just have to take my word for it, but I assure you she didn't put herself out there. She basically worked and came home. But once it was out she was single, several came sniffing around. Eventually, she did the average and was married again within 3 years of the divorce. She was introduced to her current man by some friends.


----------



## Anonymous07

southbound said:


> I'm sure there's a lot of truth to what you wrote, however, it worked differently for my x wife. You'll just have to take my word for it, but I assure you she didn't put herself out there. She basically worked and came home. But once it was out she was single, several came sniffing around. Eventually, she did the average and was married again within 3 years of the divorce. She was introduced to her current man by some friends.


You can't compare yourself to her. There are "outliers" to the norm, but that's not how it usually works. You can't just expect people to come knocking on your door if you don't put yourself out there. If they don't know you want to be in relationship and you look happy single, why would a woman risk saying something to you? 

It's like when you are looking for a job. Most people(except for maybe the very top few and some other odd outliers) will not have companies banging on their doors, you have to apply to many jobs and interview.


----------



## southbound

Anonymous07 said:


> You can't compare yourself to her. There are "outliers" to the norm, but that's not how it usually works. You can't just expect people to come knocking on your door if you don't put yourself out there. If they don't know you want to be in relationship and you look happy single, why would a woman risk saying something to you?
> 
> It's like when you are looking for a job. Most people(except for maybe the very top few and some other odd outliers) will not have companies banging on their doors, you have to apply to many jobs and interview.


I hear you. I guess the game just changes when one is 46. Like i said, my last experience in the dating scene was getting attention when people knew you were single, whether i was out there or not. 

In my x's case, I'm sure there were single guys with their ears open. When they heard about her, they came knocking. Of all the women that complain about men who are jerks, it seems one or two might have an ear open for one that's not.

I notice the "happy being single" thing has come up a few times. Maybe I'll act like I'm in lonely misery when I'm in public; maybe that will attract.


----------



## Faithful Wife

SB...I'm not sure if I have this right so I'm just asking you straight up...are you saying that you thought that when you became single, some woman would eventually seek you out to be with you?


----------



## southbound

Faithful Wife said:


> SB...I'm not sure if I have this right so I'm just asking you straight up...are you saying that you thought that when you became single, some woman would eventually seek you out to be with you?


I thought there might be a nibble or two. I don't mean that as though I'm a gift to women, but as i stated, that was my last experience 25 or so years ago. I didn't know it was completely absurd for a woman to show interest. 

I can think of 3 guys off the top of my head in my area who were widowed in the last 6 years. Two in their 60s and one in his 40s. They are now remarried, and the wives will gladly share the story of how they pursued the men. One of the guys in his 60s was dating one woman, and another woman called and said, "I don't know why your dating her when I'm the one who cares about you." He knew of her, but had never even dated her, but that woman is the one he married.

These guys weren't movie stars either.


----------



## marriedandlonely

jld said:


> Some men are just nonthreatening and easy to talk to. I would imagine they draw in a lot of women.


Dont want to hijack this thread but reading this has raised a question in my mind DO SOME GUYS GET TALKED ABOUT BY THE TENDER GENDER (as a good lover)
And I have noticed that we tend to pick a mate that looks a little like us


----------



## jld

southbound said:


> Nope, not the ones I know. I'm a church guy myself. Sure, church women aren't usually the swinging bar type that like to paint the town every night, but otherwise, I don't see any difference.


Could you elaborate, please?


----------



## jld

marriedandlonely said:


> And I have noticed that we tend to pick a mate that looks a little like us


I think this is especially true in LTRs.


----------



## norajane

southbound said:


> Sorry, I overlooked this before. The answer to your question is, zero. Now, before you fall out of your chair and wonder why all the comments, let me say that I often forget what I post on open forum and what I chat about in PMs.
> 
> I've discovered after my divorce that I'm actually quite happy being single. I don't feel lonely and all that stuff.
> 
> Aside from my x wife wanting a divorce after 18 years because she was no longer happy, I suppose my puzzle stems from this:
> 
> I'm 46 and was married at age 24. Up to that point, there was usually someone available that showed interest. They either showed it personally, or word was passed along. Someone would say, "Hey, Janie likes you and wants to go out with you."
> 
> I'm not going to overstate that and pretend i was Elvis, by no means, but there was enough. Now that I'm single, that type of thing does not exist anymore. You all may be falling out of your seats in laughter, but I hadn't been single since early 20s, and that was my last memory of the process.
> 
> I live in a rural area. I'm sure it's no secret that I'm single, and I'm sure it's no secret as to what kind of man I am. It puzzles and irritates me sometimes to hear women complain about what butts some men are, yet they seem to only want to date and marry butts as if nothing else existed.


Do you want a relationship? Is there someone you are interested in? If so, then go ahead and approach her. 

If there isn't, then why is it so strange to you that women might not be interested in you, either? If you aren't interested in any of the women you know in your rural area, maybe they aren't reaching out to you because they also don't consider you a good match.


----------



## Deejo

South, I don't know what to tell you, other than 'vibe' is a real thing.

I've posted before about a woman who I am close to, and dated immediately following my separation.

She owns her own business. She is fit, funny, and attractive.

But ...

She doesn't go out. Almost never. No interest. Doesn't drink. And she has mentioned to me that she is amazed that she doesn't get approached, but like you, is also very content being single. 

For perspective, the last partnered sex she had, was me ... in 2008.

She had one guy interested in her 2 years ago, and he promptly faded into the woodwork.

I have emphasized to her, and I will emphasize to you; if you want to be partnered, you have to behave in a manner that makes that apparent to yourself, and to potential partners.

We talk about social value all of the time. If either gender is interested in, or talking about a particular member of the opposite gender there is usually a reason why.

They are musical, or charitable, or fun, or have model looks, or a warm smile, make people laugh, have lots of money, active in their community ... etc. Or they are proactive in seeking out others that want to be partnered.

My friend doesn't do this. From what I can see, you don't do this.

There is SOMETHING that gets them noticed, makes them attractive or draws other people in.

If you don't know what that something is about you, then you can't possibly expect other worthwhile people out there, to see it in you.


----------



## heartsbeating

ConanHub said:


> I have always been absolutely fearless and confident with the opposite sex and I have never been pushy or a bully.


Conan used to throw in a couple of floor taps....

Dancing in Your 20s - comedian Sebastian Maniscalco




And Ms Jellybeans... you might sense a certain Prince-ness about this comedian. He does a bit about his admiration for Prince haha.


----------



## ConanHub

heartsbeating said:


> Conan used to throw in a couple of floor taps....
> 
> Dancing in Your 20s - comedian Sebastian Maniscalco
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Ms Jellybeans... you might sense a certain Prince-ness about this comedian. He does a bit about his admiration for Prince haha.


Hey! That guy stole my moves!


----------



## southbound

jld said:


> Could you elaborate, please?


Meaning, they are still women who like being on the go, adventurous, like vacations, boats, etc. and aren't really interested in a laid back guy who isn't in the rat race of life. 



norajane said:


> Do you want a relationship? Is there someone you are interested in? If so, then go ahead and approach her.
> 
> If there isn't, then why is it so strange to you that women might not be interested in you, either? If you aren't interested in any of the women you know in your rural area, maybe they aren't reaching out to you because they also don't consider you a good match.


I'm 46, so I'm not totally writing off relationships for the rest of my life, but I'd just like it to happen naturally. Maybe I meet someone at work or a friend knows a friend and we just want to be together, but I'm not looking or pursuing a relationship. I'm fine being single, actually I quite enjoy it. 



Deejo said:


> She owns her own business. She is fit, funny, and attractive.
> 
> But ...
> 
> She doesn't go out. Almost never. No interest. Doesn't drink. And she has mentioned to me that she is amazed that she doesn't get approached, but like you, is also very content being single.


So, if a person is happy being single, do you feel they just give off a vibe? I like being single, but then again, I usually like whatever situation I'm in. I'm not usually searching for something to make me happy. While I am happy as i am, I would welcome a relationship if the right person came along, but I'm not slapping on cologne every weekend to go on a search. 

As for your friend being puzzled as to why she's not approached, I can relate. Being single and happy must produce a hands-off vibe that we don't really mean to give off.


----------



## Faithful Wife

southbound said:


> I can think of 3 guys off the top of my head in my area who were widowed in the last 6 years. Two in their 60s and one in his 40s. They are now remarried, *and the wives will gladly share the story of how they pursued the men*. One of the guys in his 60s was dating one woman, and another woman called and said, "I don't know why your dating her when I'm the one who cares about you." He knew of her, but had never even dated her, but that woman is the one he married.
> 
> These guys weren't movie stars either.


Ok how did they know/meet these men?

At church?

Work?

Grocery store?

Neighbors?

Someone introduced them?

There will always be some way in which she noticed him and then decided to pursue. And yes, many women will pursue! You do have to be somewhere that they can actually find you though.


----------



## Faithful Wife

southbound said:


> As for your friend being puzzled as to why she's not approached, I can relate. Being single and happy must produce a hands-off vibe that we don't really mean to give off.


Are you introverted?

Would you be interested in a FWB?

Can you tell me what happened in your marriage (sorry, I do not know your story) and how recently it ended?


----------



## Deejo

southbound said:


> So, if a person is happy being single, do you feel they just give off a vibe? I like being single, but then again, I usually like whatever situation I'm in. I'm not usually searching for something to make me happy. While I am happy as i am, I would welcome a relationship if the right person came along, but I'm not slapping on cologne every weekend to go on a search.
> 
> As for your friend being puzzled as to why she's not approached, I can relate. Being single and happy must produce a hands-off vibe that we don't really mean to give off.


She owns a dojo, which I find sexy as hell, but it is her belief, that it puts men off, despite the fact that she trains dozens of men every day.

My belief is that her belief of what puts men off, creates a vibe in her that in fact ... puts men off.

We talked about the fact that she is never in social circumstances. I asked how she would respond if a guy approached her at the supermarket. She said she would think it was creepy and wouldn't give him the time of day.

To which I responded, so when exactly would you give him the time of day?

Funny, she talked about meeting someone naturally as well. That is what she would like. Natural, apparently means meeting by osmosis. She isn't going to do ANYTHING to proactively better her odds at meeting a man with whom she is compatible.

She is extraordinarily fixed in her ways. When we dated, her idea of a good time on a Saturday night was hanging out on the couch watching Food Network or Desperate Housewives. I'm not kidding ...
So ... in the scheme of things it's really good that she is content being single, and I believe her. Because the fact of the matter is, that she isn't open to dating at all despite her claiming otherwise.

I'm not saying any of this is you. Just painting a picture in which you may or may not see some of your own thoughts or behaviors.


----------



## Holland

marriedandlonely said:


> Dont want to hijack this thread but reading this has raised a question in my mind DO SOME GUYS GET TALKED ABOUT BY THE TENDER GENDER (as a good lover)
> *And I have noticed that we tend to pick a mate that looks a little like us*


I think it is funny when you see couples that look similar, also a bit creepy.

I have never dated or married a man that looked similar to me, just too strange to even think about.


----------



## southbound

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok how did they know/meet these men?


the women just knew of them. Like I said, I live in a rural area where the saying goes "everybody knows everybody." That's stretching it a bit, but there is some truth to it. I suppose it's not like in an urban area where you possibly don't really know the people you live in the same apartment building with, or two houses down, or go to the grocery and recognize nobody; therefore, you feel you have to put yourself in social situations to meet people.

When I got divorced, it was obvious that people knew it, even people I didn't feel close to, by the comments they made. I's meet people and they would say things like, "Where do you live now," or "do you see the kids a lot?" It was obvious they knew, even though I wasn't close to them or even had conversation with them.

I'm sure the single women, and everyone else in my are, know I'm single. 




Faithful Wife said:


> Are you introverted?
> 
> Would you be interested in a FWB?
> 
> Can you tell me what happened in your marriage (sorry, I do not know your story) and how recently it ended?


Benn divorced about 4 years. I'd been married 18 years to a woman who pursued me heavily back in the day. After 18 years, she decided she wasn't happy anymore because of a hundred little reasons, she didn't feel we talked anymore, etc., but nothing big like cheating or abuse. It was the weirdest thing i ever experienced. 




Deejo said:


> Funny, she talked about meeting someone naturally as well. That is what she would like. Natural, apparently means meeting by osmosis. She isn't going to do ANYTHING to proactively better her odds at meeting a man with whom she is compatible.
> 
> I'm not saying any of this is you. Just painting a picture in which you may or may not see some of your own thoughts or behaviors.


The meeting naturally doesn't seem weird to me. remember that I haven't dated since my early 20s, and that's how it always happened before; there was always girls around. I never thought about it, but I never "went looking" in my life. There were always girls around at school, church, or other places in my natural environment. I might have a college class with a girl, for example. I'd get to know her a bit and sk her out. That's an example of what i mean by naturally. 

I never in my life put myself in a situation where I was making an effort to meet females, but then again, I haven't dated in 20 plus years, and it appears that method has dulled a bit.


----------



## Jellybeans

heartsbeating said:


> And Ms Jellybeans... you might sense a certain Prince-ness about this comedian. He does a bit about his admiration for Prince haha.


Haha. Thanks for the link, Hearts. I had never heard of him before and I do like his moves.


----------



## Jellybeans

intheory said:


> ^^^^ :iagree:
> 
> That's why I could never do the online dating thing.
> 
> I've got to "feel" the person.


Oh you can "feel" them after you meet. 



Deejo said:


> Which is the point of setting up a date ... just like in person.


Exactly.



Deejo said:


> I have a friend who women would utterly and absolutely fawn over, right up to the point where he opened his mouth and started talking.


Hate when that happens. Lol.



intheory said:


> Yeah, I know. But it still wouldn't work for me.
> 
> Your online profiles are compatible, you talk online, or even on the phone.
> 
> Then you meet; and within 2 minutes you just know that it's not going to happen.
> 
> Then it's very, very awkward, with both of you trying not to hurt the other's feelings.
> 
> Or, worse, one person "feels it", and the other doesn't.
> 
> Grueling, awful; no thanks.


This would happen in any dating situation. That's what dating is. Either you are going to like them or you aren't and vice versa. Spending time together is how you figure out if it's a go or not.


----------



## ConanHub

Jellybeans said:


> Oh you can "feel" them after you meet.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Hate when that happens. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> This would happen in any dating situation. That's what dating is. Either you are going to like them or you aren't and vice versa. Spending time together is how you figure out if it's a go or not.


intheory and myself get the vibe and then pursue to date. Not saying that going on a cold date is wrong. We just get the feel for someone and then date.


----------



## Jellybeans

To each their own. 

Sign of the times though.

I thought both of you were married?


----------



## norajane

southbound said:


> The meeting naturally doesn't seem weird to me. remember that I haven't dated since my early 20s, and that's how it always happened before; there was always girls around. I never thought about it, but I never "went looking" in my life. There were always girls around at school, church, or other places in my natural environment. I might have a college class with a girl, for example. I'd get to know her a bit and sk her out. That's an example of what i mean by naturally.
> 
> I never in my life put myself in a situation where I was making an effort to meet females, but then again, I haven't dated in 20 plus years, and it appears that method has dulled a bit.


Hey, 20+ years ago, there wasn't much of an internet, Tonya Harding's goons tried to break Nancy Kerrigan's legs, OJ Simpson was being chased through LA's highways by police, and the GPS system we can use from our phones today didn't exist. Things change a lot in 20 years.

The biggest thing is that there aren't crowds of single people your age "around" anymore. That realization happens to all of us at some point. The pool shrinks once you leave college, shrinks further as you get into your mid to late 20's as everyone you know gets married, shrinks some more in your 30's, and by the time you hit your 40's, the single people are more often divorced or widowed people. And while there are plenty of divorced and widowed people out there, there aren't as many as there were single people when you were in college, and they all have 20+ years of life experience instead of being giggly, "Oooo, I have a crush on _that _guy (today)!" young women.

If you want a relationship, it's time to get over your expectations from when you were 25 and start _flirting _with some ladies!


----------



## Jellybeans

Solid advice, Nora.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

> *norajane said*:*If you want a relationship, it's time to get over your expectations from when you were 25 and start flirting with some ladies!*


Southbound is a really hard one to figure out ...so I feel... he seems to have a large reserve of interest in relationship dynamics ... many thought provoking questions over the years here...his trying to understand what women REALLY WANT / need in these modern times...where he missed it , why wasn't it "*enough*" .... but at the same time ...with each one... he comes to the same conclusion.. women are not like they used to be...then comes the " *I am content and happy alone*".....

Going back to his post (#90) if I read a man's description of himself as he laid out... I would get the feeling he was a Simple Man, an older fashioned Homebody... he would not fare well with an "on the go"/ lavish vacation diva , "everything has to be the BEST".. those types would be OUT.... but really...so long as our world spins...their will be female homebodys to be found in the dating world.. Seek them out!



> *Southbound said* : My grandmother and great aunts, for example, liked the fact that their men were workers who would put a roof over their heads and food on the table. They also liked the fact that they were good men of principal; they never had to worry about being cheated on or anything of that nature.* I've heard them make comments about how they loved them that would almost bring tears to your eyes, but it was always about something simple*; probably things that would seem corny today."


 I liked this part .  some worthy emotion over the simple things in life.. I too.. would be touched by such things...

This part >>


> *Although nothing about me appears weirdly old fashioned on the surface, I guess I'm just not the modern man deep down. I can't excite a woman on a first date by telling her about bicycling across the country, sky diving, mountain climbing, or some other exciting adventure, because i don't do that stuff.*


 If I met someone THIS EXCITING on the 1st date, I would think ..."Well crap, they wouldn't want me -I'm too boring!!"...it would almost be intimidating.. I am sure I am not alone on that. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with the way you are .... personalities & a possible chemistry likely can never be predicted ...though surely it will put your mind at ease if you know the basics of a potential date...Finding another with a common appreciation/ Romance for the way things used to be.. that's a good starting point... 

Before I came to TAM.. I really believed everyone deep down desires Lasting love (regardless of what they say)....sharing the laughter and the tears along life's journey, no matter how difficult their current marriage is /or things ending in divorce, I would assume this would remain somehow... I was always the happy Match Maker of my friends.. (God help them)...

Truth was....it was Southbound, this online poster, over anyone else ...who has put a fork in that belief of mine.. that I should *not* assume that those who are single yearn for a mate...that some truly are happy / very content to remain just as they are..


----------



## southbound

norajane said:


> Hey, 20+ years ago, there wasn't much of an internet, Tonya Harding's goons tried to break Nancy Kerrigan's legs, OJ Simpson was being chased through LA's highways by police, and the GPS system we can use from our phones today didn't exist. Things change a lot in 20 years.
> 
> The biggest thing is that there aren't crowds of single people your age "around" anymore. That realization happens to all of us at some point. The pool shrinks once you leave college, shrinks further as you get into your mid to late 20's as everyone you know gets married, shrinks some more in your 30's, and by the time you hit your 40's, the single people are more often divorced or widowed people. And while there are plenty of divorced and widowed people out there, there aren't as many as there were single people when you were in college, and they all have 20+ years of life experience instead of being giggly, "Oooo, I have a crush on _that _guy (today)!" young women.
> 
> If you want a relationship, it's time to get over your expectations from when you were 25 and start _flirting _with some ladies!


I'm sure this is true; good points.




SimplyAmorous said:


> Southbound is a really hard one to figure out ...so I feel... he seems to have a large reserve of interest in relationship dynamics ... many thought provoking questions over the years here...his trying to understand what women REALLY WANT / need in these modern times...where he missed it , why wasn't it "*enough*" ....


You know me well; I like to know what makes people tick. Human behavior has always fascinated me, and I feel a lot of it is weird, but then again, I view everything from a logical standpoint with little emotion involved. (as you know)



SimplyAmorous said:


> but at the same time ...with each one... he comes to the same conclusion.. women are not like they used to be...then comes the " *I am content and happy alone*".....


It certainly appears women aren't like they used to be. I suppose basic human emotions are the same, but it sure is expected to be expressed differently these days. Nobody is satisfied with average stuff anymore, everything has to be exciting and running at high energy all the time. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> but really...so long as our world spins...their will be female homebodys to be found in the dating world.. Seek them out!


But where are they. Forget about what you think may be in my neck of the woods, do you know any women, single or married, in your area that is a homebody and basically likes the simple things in life without all the fancy ribbons, but yet are just a regular person? 




SimplyAmorous said:


> This part >> If I met someone THIS EXCITING on the 1st date, I would think ..."Well crap, they wouldn't want me -I'm too boring!!"...it would almost be intimidating.. I am sure I am not alone on that.


I agree. I was being a little overboard just to make a point as i usually do. You always take my statements like that too literally. If I were speaking, you would hear the sarcasm in my voice, but you get my point i assume



SimplyAmorous said:


> Truth was....it was Southbound, this online poster, over anyone else ...who has put a fork in that belief of mine.. that I should *not* assume that those who are single yearn for a mate...that some truly are happy / very content to remain just as they are.


I'm glad i gave you an awareness of something; I like it when i realize something new. I think that is one thing we all think; that everyone is like us deep down; therefore, we seek to make them like us because we think they will be happier. 

It is terrible when one is younger. My daughter is 16 and not yet boy crazy. People are always asking, "Do you have a boyfriend, why not?" I wish they would be quiet, and so does she. It's as though people just can't wait to get that relationship ball rolling for other people. 

I've learned a lot about myself after coming to this site and researching. I've learned there is actually a label for my personality; introvert. I had heard that before, but had never looked into it.


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## FrenchFry

Us lady introverts are:

1) Slightly more rare than our extroverted counterparts (so you'll have to look harder)

2) Camouflage our introversion better than men in most cases (so you'll have to dig deeper)

3)Unless specifically out there looking for a relationship, never going to approach you first. (so you have to get out there. )


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## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> You know me well; I like to know what makes people tick. Human behavior has always fascinated me, and I feel a lot of it is weird, but then again,* I view everything from a logical standpoint with little emotion involved. (as you know)*


 I just want to say a few things on this.. .although we don't want our men to be overly emotional...that just doesn't define a MAN... ya know.. ..

But we DO NEED our men to UNDERSTAND US, encourage & support us if we are feeling down, or just want some comfort...

I forget your Introverted personality type.. but everyone who is a *logical thinker*-higher on that bar, ... their greatest weaknesses in relationships are related to missing it IN THE EMOTIONAL...(their women not feeling loved, intimately supported or understood by them)

It says of the INTP ...'the largest area of potential strife in an INTP's intimate relationship is their slowness in understanding and meeting their partner's emotional needs:..

It says of the ISTJ "Not naturally in-tune with what others are feeling ~
Their value for structure may seem rigid to others ~
Not likely to give enough praise or affirmation to their loved ones...

It says of the  INTJ.. "Not naturally in tune with others feelings ~ may be insensitive at times ~
May tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, rather than the desired emotional support ~
Not naturally good at expressing feelings and affections. "

I know the logical thinker appreciates these facts.. so I am laying it out there..it's one area, if they do get into a relationship, they will need to work on to meet their partner half way.. 



> It certainly appears women aren't like they used to be. I suppose basic human emotions are the same, but it sure is expected to be expressed differently these days. *Nobody is satisfied with average stuff anymore, everything has to be exciting and running at high energy all the time. *


 I am satisfied with average stuff.. however, I could never be satisfied with a man who I wondered if he felt high emotion towards me.. I want to feel deeply loved (not just cause we have a marriage certificate in a drawer somewhere) , deeply wanted (does he enjoy spending time with me?) , and deeply desired .. Hey that's the spice of life. 



> *But where are they. Forget about what you think may be in my neck of the woods, do you know any women, single or married, in your area that is a homebody and basically likes the simple things in life without all the fancy ribbons, but yet are just a regular person? *


 Yes I have friends like this.. very down to earth.. one was in a horrible car accident a month ago... she had to have a hip replacement, arm broken in 3 places, pins in her knee.. 12 hr surgery on her leg.. she is not one to complain at all...very content with what she has in life....and it never was "very much" I can assure you... 

She could have lost her leg.. she's thankful for her life.. never one to expect anything ..when she married -she had the hardest time allowing her H to give her a newer car, she wasn't used to a man doing things for her.. I had the opportunity to talk to her on these things, to allow this good man to GIVE TO HER...allow him to love her.. no entitlement there.... she's had a lot of tragedy.. and she's inspiring to me.. I can not see ME handling things the way she has all these years.. (but she does talk a bit and not crazy about sex.. so you know.. a man has to weigh the whole package, right !)



> *I agree. I was being a little overboard just to make a point as i usually do. You always take my statements like that too literally. If I were speaking, you would hear the sarcasm in my voice, but you get my point i assume*


 Yes, I know this.. but then some are such exaggerators, you never know.. you don't know whether to laugh -with a "REALLY...come on now" ... calling them on it (I've done this) or feel just a little intimidated by all their Go-getting & excitement.. in comparison to our less colorful life. 



> *I'm glad i gave you an awareness of something; I like it when i realize something new. I think that is one thing we all think; that everyone is like us deep down; therefore, we seek to make them like us because we think they will be happier. *


 and I get this ..it's all good... but at the same time .. I would warn any women to stay clear of men who are happy being single.. I'd feel she is colossally wasting her efforts on a frog who doesn't want caught... surely you would agree.. 

Mentioning this thread to H last night... telling him what I said TO YOU, that I now will take someone's word for being happy/ content in single-dome...his come back was to argue with me on this...saying... "NO.. he just hasn't meant the right woman"... Yes, I know.. this makes you want to cyber >>











> *It is terrible when one is younger. My daughter is 16 and not yet boy crazy. People are always asking, "Do you have a boyfriend, why not?" I wish they would be quiet, and so does she. It's as though people just can't wait to get that relationship ball rolling for other people.*


 not sure how to stop/ silence others who feel differently from the comments... ya know.. . I was boy crazy IN MY HEAD.....doesn't mean a girl has to JUMP for anything that comes her way.... nothing wrong with hoping & believing for someone special.... me & my best friend were GIDDY talking about who we swooned over...I just thought that was pretty normal behavior...

Our teen sons are very different from your daughter.. our 17 yr old's been with his GF for 3 + yrs... 

Was talking to the 16 yr old last night, a heart to heart in the kitchen.. about young involvement (I can see 2nd son has lost some interest in his GF but she is holding on tight... some unbalance going on there)... I asked him if he feels he's too young to have a GF ... he doesn't feel so... he enjoys that (and WE CAN SEE IT- I enjoy his Gf, we get along very well, they just seem to "get" each other)

After his 1st breakup -which was very hard on him emotionally..he as much admitted to me what he wants from life more than anything is to be in a relationship.. what can we say.. *Your daughter is a chip off the old block*. and so is our sons...

We can't run from our genetics , can we- we're wired a certain way... I see 3rd son as ALL HIS DAD...and what is so cool is his GF is so much LIKE ME.. will it last.. I don't [email protected]#.. but he is thoroughly enjoying the ride...

You wouldn't understand our sons..... I don't understand your daughter.. even though I can agree with you that MOST YOUNG relationships are packed full of DRAMA, breakups, FB craziness...he was telling me about his friend & his GF (this kid comes to our house alot)... both fighting, silent treatment crap happening, she is accusing him of things...being controlling...how bad it's getting.... for some it's a nightmare Roller coaster ride...I surely wouldn't deny this! .......but it's not been the case for our teens ...and it wasn't for myself & H back then either. 

If I was dealing with all of that crap I'd surely feel differently!!.

Anyway...more & more today do NOT care about relationships Southbound, far fewer are marrying.. you should be pleased.... But one thing is for sure.. our Grandparents "courting days" are over.... it's now "*hooking up*".. it's near replaced dating on College campuses.. I am not one to think this trend is something to applaud in any way... and your daughter will face that pressure too...it's now looked upon more favorably to NOT GET EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED -after all who needs that hassle in your life.. just enjoy the sex !....







but that's another thread....



> I've learned a lot about myself after coming to this site and researching. * I've learned there is actually a label for my personality; introvert.* I had heard that before, but had never looked into it.


You've seen this before...Introvert vs. Extrovert Conversation ... although introverts can be high in the FEELING too...& deeply crave relationships..so there is no corner (or however one says this) for Extroverts in the pursuit for the Romantic.


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## Middle of Everything

Southbound not to be a comdedian but have you tried Farmersonly.com?

You say you are rural, so Im guessing you dont have to be an actual farmer.


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## SimplyAmorous

Middle of Everything said:


> Southbound not to be a comdedian but have you tried Farmersonly.com?
> 
> You say you are rural, so Im guessing you dont have to be an actual farmer.


How COOL IS THAT.... Farmer Dating Online For Singles..it says "*City folks just don't get it"*..

I looked a little further & found this..


> Traditional dating won't die out if traditional values are maintained. Folk wisdom may be seen as a pejorative term today, and adjectives like "folksy" often carry a bad reputation. However, good old fashioned values are shared by many, many people - and many of them are members or have been members of FarmersOnly.com, allowing traditional dating to remain a reality.
> 
> Some people enjoy watching a sunset; they regard the toiling of land or the raising of animals as a vocation or a walk of life rather than a job. They are not afraid to do an honest day's labor. Work for them is not just an ephemeral desk job. They are likely to have similar values when it comes to morality in matters of love. So you may want to try cowboy dating or traditional dating today, and see who you meet on FarmersOnly.com.










.....Here is another one *>>*  Farmers Dating site


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## Faithful Wife

Save a horse, ride a cowboy.


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## southbound

SimplyAmorous said:


> a man has to weigh the whole package, right !)


True. Right now i can't think of much that would make me happier than i am now. I'm not interested in a great lifestyle change, and I can assure you a relationship would certainly do that. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> Mentioning this thread to H last night... telling him what I said TO YOU, that I now will take someone's word for being happy/ content in single-dome...his come back was to argue with me on this...saying... "NO.. he just hasn't meant the right woman"... Yes, I know.. this makes you want to cyber >>


Actually, both of you are right. I haven't met the right woman, but in the meantime, I'm perfectly happy and content. I haven't written off a relationship altogether, but I'm not searching, and I'm 100% happy. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> You wouldn't understand our sons..... I don't understand your daughter..


I don't think your sons are unusual; that's the way most do it.

In a way, I feel I've been given a gift. I believe i shared a picture of my daughter with you; she's not lacking in the looks department if i do say so myself. I assumed when she was 13 or 14 some guy would be calling and she'd be begging to go out. I even dated a girl who was 14 once when i was 17, but that phase is past; she's already 16, which is a normal age to be dating. If a guy comes calling now, it will just be normal nerves and not weird nerves, or a fight about why she's too young to go out. I've never even had to bother with setting a curfew. Whenever she's been out late thus far, it's always been with girlfriends and a parent, at a parent's house, or something to do with school. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> I know the logical thinker appreciates these facts.. so I am laying it out there..it's one area, if they do get into a relationship, they will need to work on to meet their partner half way..


yes, I do appreciate that kind of stuff.


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## southbound

Middle of Everything said:


> Southbound not to be a comdedian but have you tried Farmersonly.com?
> 
> You say you are rural, so Im guessing you dont have to be an actual farmer.


I'll give that a look. I probably don't fully fit that category either. 
I'm probably not farmery enough for the farmer's club.:rofl:


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## bubbly girl

Confidence is a huge attraction. Its not something you fake, but just being comfortable with yourself. My husband has the attitude, "this is me. If you don't like me, I could care less."


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## southbound

bubbly girl said:


> Confidence is a huge attraction. Its not something you fake, but just being comfortable with yourself. My husband has the attitude, "this is me. If you don't like me, I could care less."


I certainly have that down, and always have. I've always wondered how this "confidence" thing is displayed. It's something that is always mentioned as an attraction factor. If how you describe it is all it is, I give myself an A+ in that area.


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## Kresaera

I am not typically attracted to the typical "tough guy" looks myself. I prefer some muscle but not too much, when getting a hug, I don't want to feel like I'm being crushed. I do however prefer taller men, over 6 foot if possible. Blue eyes are my weakness and hair color or lack there of doesn't matter to me. 

I've been with men who are bigger in the muscle area and it just didn't feel right, I dunno, I just prefer smaller guys.


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## latterdatingsaints

Join latter dating saints.com to meet LDS singles like you. This website is run by LDS members has been created so that members of the 

church and meet other singles throughout the world.

Latter Dating Saints


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## 23cm

I've found that being able to lick my eyebrows is an advantage.


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## WasDecimated

southbound said:


> I thought there might be a nibble or two. I don't mean that as though I'm a gift to women, but as i stated, that was my last experience 25 or so years ago. I didn't know it was completely absurd for a woman to show interest.
> 
> I can think of 3 guys off the top of my head in my area who were widowed in the last 6 years. Two in their 60s and one in his 40s. They are now remarried, and the wives will gladly share the story of how they pursued the men. One of the guys in his 60s was dating one woman, and another woman called and said, "I don't know why your dating her when I'm the one who cares about you." He knew of her, but had never even dated her, but that woman is the one he married.
> 
> These guys weren't movie stars either.


Southbound, I know how you feel. We are in a very similar place only its worse for me. I'm 53 and my X cheated. 

I'm 4 years out from divorce now. I've been OLD dating on and off for a while...nothing. I go out with friends...nothing. I pursue my own interests...nothing. I thought there would be a nibble or two as well but no. friends, family and even co-workers cant seem to understand it. They keep telling me that I seem like I would be quite a catch and I should be juggling women. But the truth is women just don't seem to be interested. I'm honest and genuine. I think I'm smart, funny and quick witted. I'm pretty tall and lean, I work out regularly, have a great career, own a nice home...etc. Nothing.

All of my friends that have been divorced in recent years are all remarried as well. Most with in 2 years. They didn't go out of there way to put themselves out there either. Luck seemed to play it hand and they were in the right place at the right time to meet the right person.

I know what it looks like when women are interested in a guy. My brother is one year younger than me and a stereo-typically good looking guy. Women would literally through themselves at him. He would be dating two, three, four at a time. He didn't pursue them either. In fact, he put in almost no effort at all. They approach him and did all the work. He isn't charismatic, confident, or have the ability to look into a woman's soul. The great majority of the attraction to him was solely based on how he looks. He wanted to get to know them from the inside out alright, but not the way @norajane is thinking.


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## WasDecimated

southbound said:


> I'm 46, and I think I'm stuck with knowing what was displayed before me as relationship material when I was growing up, and what people seem to want in a relationship today. I grew up and live in a rural area.
> 
> I mentioned in another thread that "rules of expression change with generations." What I meant by that was this: I'm sure wanting to feel special and loved is timeless, but I think how people expect others to show it changes.
> 
> My grandmother and great aunts, for example, liked the fact that their men were workers who would put a roof over their heads and food on the table. They also liked the fact that they were good men of principal; they never had to worry about being cheated on or anything of that nature. I've heard them make comments about how they loved them that would almost bring tears to your eyes, but it was always about something simple; probably things that would seem corny today.
> 
> I'm not saying that women no longer want those things, but among some, it seems like those characteristics are nothing special. These days men need and "edge," something that "excites" the woman. Today it's about vacations, sky diving, vacations, and such as that.


This has crossed my mind as well. I think there is a lot of truth to it. I think I was taught what women value back when and things have changed. 

I guess I was just born too late...or boring!


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## EllaSuaveterre

For me attraction to a guy isn't physical really. I'm attracted to Romanticism and empathy. A guy can look like Orlando Bloom and if he's not your stereotypical hopeless romantic, and willing and able to weather a woman's emotional storms, I find him repugnant.

My husband is 5' 3" and bald but when I read some of the messages he sent me on MSN when we were dating, I still swoon.


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