# Here because I'm considering separation



## LeavesInFall

Hello, I'm 28 and from Canada. I have just been thinking about separation from my husband of 4 years and wanted a place to talk about it. I live in a smaller community and work in the mental health field, so finding people to talk to about it openly is difficult. Thus why I'm here!


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## DoesItGetBetter?

Hello, LeavesInFall - This is a great place to share in complete anonymity, and there are many people willing to offer their insights to you here. Why do you want to be separated from your husband?


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## sokillme

So tell us what is going on then. First question, does your husband know the severity of your unhappiness? Does he know you are at the point of separating? 

Not hearing your response (maybe you have been clearly saying so for years) I would say in general you are not being a good spouse if you are not making these feelings very clear, even to the point of just saying "If this doesn't change I am done." For whatever reason some Men and Women need to be hit on the head, but it should also be said that some Men and Women think their spouses are much more attuned to them then is reasonable. I think a lot of times this contributes to what is called "Walk away" wife syndrome now a days, and think about it, not articulating your unhappiness is just a bad marriage strategy, assuming your expectations are reasonable.


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## wilson

Welcome. You came up with a very witty username/topic combination.


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## LeavesInFall

DoesItGetBetter? said:


> Hello, LeavesInFall - This is a great place to share in complete anonymity, and there are many people willing to offer their insights to you here. Why do you want to be separated from your husband?


It's just been years of not feeling respected and not feeling heard when I try to voice my concerns. But those reasons seem so small when I say it, and in comparison to other stories I've read on this forum. He isn't physically abusive, he doesn't have any real addictions issues (Except he drinks more than I feel is necessary, but I wouldn't call him an alcoholic). It all seems so arbitrary that I feel ridiculous talking about it. It seems so easy to repair, that if I try harder and wait longer then things will change. But I also feel I have tried and have waited. I've suggested counseling before but he is not open to the idea, insisting we can "fix things ourselves". 

There are other problems. The big one is that I want another baby (I have a daughter from before I met him) but we have tried unsuccessfully and he has not done his part in getting further testing to find out if we even can have a baby. I wanted to be done having children by the time I was 30, and with that looming closer, I feel despondent. I have talked to him about it. I used "I feel" and "I need" statements. He agrees to do it and then doesn't. I offered to call the doctor. He has had the lab req's twice and didn't go in. I've thought that perhaps he doesn't actually want a baby? But that is not what he told me when we started dating and I was explicit in my wish for at least 2 more children.

Which leads me to the feeling that he made himself out to be someone else when we met. I feel like I was very transparent. I wanted to live life through experiences, go out with friends, spend time with family, go camping, hiking, fishing, I wanted more children, I was just starting my education and wanted to be financially stable. I told him all that and more, and he said that was how he was and wanted to live too. But we do none of those things. We sit around at home, he comes home from a job he hates, that doesn't pay well and he won't leave, even though I've begged him. He's miserable when he comes home and we are left walking on eggshells to make sure we don't upset him further. He doesn't have any friends except our neighbour, and would get upset when I would go out with my friends, and thus I've pushed them all away. We barely go camping or hiking. I forced us to go on a walk last week with the dogs and when I asked if he had fun (because I did), he said no and that he would have rather stayed home. We did also just go camping for the weekend. I hoped it would revive something for me, but it didn't and that is sort of what led me here. When we first met, he told me he spent a lot of time with his nephew but two years ago we were talking about his sister, he said he never spent a lot of time with his nephew. When I questioned him about it, he insisted he never said it. But I know he did and I can tell you the exact spot on our walk during our first date that he said it. So, just various discrepancies from the beginning of our relationship to now. I feel like I didn't actually know who I married.

There are other issues, but this is simply the Intro forum and I may post more in the "Considering Separation..." forum. I also don't want to play the blame game, because I'm sure I do things that he doesn't like either. I do love him but I feel like we are evolving differently and want different things out of life.


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## LeavesInFall

sokillme said:


> So tell us what is going on then. First question, does your husband know the severity of your unhappiness? Does he know you are at the point of separating?
> 
> Not hearing your response (maybe you have been clearly saying so for years) I would say in general you are not being a good spouse if you are not making these feelings very clear, even to the point of just saying "If this doesn't change I am done." For whatever reason some Men and Women need to be hit on the head, but it should also be said that some Men and Women think their spouses are much more attuned to them then is reasonable. I think a lot of times this contributes to what is called "Walk away" wife syndrome now a days, and think about it, not articulating your unhappiness is just a bad marriage strategy, assuming your expectations are reasonable.


To be honest, I' have not given an ultimatum. I know that I should, and I do have plans of talking with him this weekend, when my father takes my daughter on a trip. Which is also part of what brought me here.

However, I have talked about my feelings over the years. It's not like I've been silent. I have tried to be as open as possible, which I know is not always as open as I should have been. My education has helped me a lot in the communication department though, and I feel I have been much better at it the past two years. But I don't think he understands the severity of my feelings, which would be a lapse in my own communication of the issues. He is also really good at agreeing with me but not necessarily putting resolutions into action. Which I suppose is where the disconnect is.


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## manfromlamancha

I was just wondering is there anything about him that you love or even like ? It sounds like you thought you were marrying someone else.

I can understand clinging on to a job that he doesn't like in the current job market and it maybe that finding other jobs is not as easy. I can also understand a reluctance to see counsellors or therapists as they can be awful sometimes (we sure have our pick of the incompetent here in the UK but then therapy has never been a big thing here). 

Is the not having more children a deal breaker ? If so then your marriage is done as he does not seem to want to try for whatever reason. And maybe getting to the bottom of that reason is worth spending time on.

Else, in summary you married someone to be able to have another baby and go out camping etc with and someone who was happy and fun. Instead you got someone who for some reason does not want to have a child with you, is afraid to leave his job and be happier and does not seem to have the inclination to go out camping etc.

Is it possible that he too wants to split up but is not brave enough to start proceedings and is waiting for you to make the first move ? You two seem ill matched.


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## DoesItGetBetter?

You want another baby, and you made this clear during dating, to which he agreed at the time. It is good of him that he has been doing his part to try to have a baby with you for a long period of time, although it has been without success. Have you completed tests for the ability to reproduce on your end? It is odd to me that he has so far refused to complete a simple fertility test on his end. Perhaps he does not really want another child. A counselor would likely get him to admit this or complete the fertility test, as this is a major issue for you. I'm sorry to hear about your situation.


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## StillSearching

LeavesInFall said:


> It's just been years of not feeling respected and not feeling heard when* I *try to voice my concerns. But those reasons seem so small when* I* say it, and in comparison to other stories I've read on this forum. He isn't physically abusive, he doesn't have any real addictions issues (Except he drinks more than *I* feel is necessary, but *I *wouldn't call him an alcoholic). It all seems so arbitrary that* I *feel ridiculous talking about it. It seems so easy to repair, that if *I* try harder and wait longer then things will change. But* I *also feel *I* have tried and have waited. I've suggested counseling before but he is not open to the idea, insisting we can "fix things ourselves".
> 
> There are other problems. The big one is that I want another baby (I have a daughter from before *I* met him) but we have tried unsuccessfully and he has not done his part in getting further testing to find out if we even can have a baby. *I *wanted to be done having children by the time* I* was 30, and with that looming closer, *I* feel despondent.* I* have talked to him about it.* I* used "*I* feel" and "*I* need" statements. He agrees to do it and then doesn't. *I* offered to call the doctor. He has had the lab req's twice and didn't go in. *I*'ve thought that perhaps he doesn't actually want a baby? But that is not what he told me when we started dating and *I* was explicit in my wish for at least 2 more children.
> 
> Which leads me to the feeling that he made himself out to be someone else when we met.* I* feel like* I* was very transparent.* I *wanted to live life through experiences, go out with friends, spend time with family, go camping, hiking, fishing, *I *wanted more children,* I* was just starting my education and wanted to be financially stable. *I* told him all that and more, and he said that was how he was and wanted to live too. But we do none of those things. We sit around at home, he comes home from a job he hates, that doesn't pay well and he won't leave, even though I've begged him. He's miserable when he comes home and we are left walking on eggshells to make sure we don't upset him further. He doesn't have any friends except our neighbour, and would get upset when* I* would go out with my friends, and thus* I*'ve pushed them all away. We barely go camping or hiking. *I *forced us to go on a walk last week with the dogs and when I asked if he had fun (because* I* did), he said no and that he would have rather stayed home. We did also just go camping for the weekend.* I* hoped it would revive something for me, but it didn't and that is sort of what led me here. When we first met, he told me he spent a lot of time with his nephew but two years ago we were talking about his sister, he said he never spent a lot of time with his nephew. When I questioned him about it, he insisted he never said it. But* I* know he did and* I *can tell you the exact spot on our walk during our first date that he said it. So, just various discrepancies from the beginning of our relationship to now.* I *feel like* I* didn't actually know who *I* married.
> 
> There are other issues, but this is simply the Intro forum and *I *may post more in the "Considering Separation..." forum.* I* also *don't want to play the blame game*, because I'm sure I do things that he doesn't like either. I do love him but I feel like we are evolving differently and want different things out of life.


AHHH OH....She wants a baby and she's bored!

I've read your posts...You might not see it yet, but it's a laundry list of what your husband is not doing for you. 

Ask yourself....What exactly are you doing for the relationship? It is the only thing you can change. 
I say from all my years here what this looks like....but I'll reserve voicing any idea's at the moment.


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## 3Xnocharm

Have you come out and point blank ASKED him if he still wants children? Just because he told you something back then doesnt mean that he still feels it NOW. But if he still does, then his reluctance to get tested could be because he fears a negative outcome. He could be afraid of what it means for the marriage if it turns out he cannot father a child, and he isnt comfortable expressing that fear to you. Honestly he sounds depressed. He is in a job he hates and I know for many men, that is a complete life-suck... its all they can think about and causes constant stress, self esteem issues, depression, etc. He may be stressed that the job doesnt pay well, so bringing more children into the home just looks like even more expense in his eyes. Depression would also make him not want to get out and do any of those things like camping and hiking. 

I think you need to have a conversation where you try and draw out exactly what it is that he is going through and what he is thinking. I have a feeling that he has been feeling attacked in recent talks, so really come from a place of concern for his well being. Maybe if he feels supported, he will be willing to seek some help.


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## Lostinthought61

my understanding is that it takes a year for divorce to be occur in Canada...might i suggest that if you initiate divorce proceedings you can tell him he has one year to prove himself or the divorce will go through.


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## LeavesInFall

StillSearching said:


> AHHH OH....She wants a baby and she's bored!
> 
> I've read your posts...You might not see it yet, but it's a laundry list of what your husband is not doing for you.
> 
> Ask yourself....What exactly are you doing for the relationship? It is the only thing you can change.
> I say from all my years here what this looks like....but I'll reserve voicing any idea's at the moment.


Yeah, it definitely seems that way. I know the post is definitely one-sided but I can really only speak for myself, which I suppose is why my post looks like that. And heck yeah, I want a baby! That was a big part of "the plan".

As for what I'm doing for the relationship? I know what I've done. I've been patient, I've been complimenting him more and trying to express my gratitude for the things he does do, I've tried to help him with parenting my daughter by not nit-picking and noticing the positive things, because I know it's hard being a step-parent (The parenting thing is another issue but that's long too). I've taken his suggestions for parenting, such as kicking her outside more. I've tried talking about these things and coming to a resolution to problems. I've listened to his requests; He has asked me not to make plans without consulting him first. Now I consult him (which was a big one for him). We spend more time without tech and sit down at the table more for dinner. I've tried to pay more loving attention to him by touching him more and I always, always, without fail, ask him how his day was. I've also suggested counseling for us to talk in a different environment, with someone to mediate. Is there more I can do? I'm sure there is, but at this point, I don't know what else to do. Suggestions are helpful.

As I said, I know it's not all him. I definitely have my faults too, I would never deny that. I do know that I'm working on them though. My temper has improved greatly.

I know how it looks when you're only getting one side of the story. I don't want to seem like that selfish wife who only sees her side because I don't think that's me. But if you think that and have any suggestions, I'm open to hear them.


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## sokillme

LeavesInFall said:


> To be honest, I' have not given an ultimatum. I know that I should, and I do have plans of talking with him this weekend, when my father takes my daughter on a trip. Which is also part of what brought me here.
> 
> However, I have talked about my feelings over the years. It's not like I've been silent. I have tried to be as open as possible, which I know is not always as open as I should have been. My education has helped me a lot in the communication department though, and I feel I have been much better at it the past two years. But I don't think he understands the severity of my feelings, which would be a lapse in my own communication of the issues. He is also really good at agreeing with me but not necessarily putting resolutions into action. Which I suppose is where the disconnect is.


Don't couch it, better that he knows now when he still has a chance. 

"I want a baby do you?" "I am bored and hate sitting around home all day." 

Maybe you should write him a letter so it's not an argument.


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## LeavesInFall

manfromlamancha, 
He does seem unhappy. I don't know why he stays at the job. I've asked him and he doesn't really give straight answer. He has said that he doesn't know where he would go. A lot of the work men take in our area is based off of forestry or mining and neither are secure. I do understand the reluctance. He is such a hard worker though and to do so much for so little seems so self-defeating. At least to me. Maybe he sees it another way but doesn't tell me?

And the counselor thing I know is hard for men. I see it everyday. 

And as for the baby thing being a deal breaker... Well, it seems like it. For the last two years, I tried to convince myself that it would be okay to have just one but I just can't. At least if I could have some concrete answers, I may feel differently, but I don't know.

Maybe he does want to leave. I don't know, he has never mentioned it. I do know I need to talk about these things with him. It's been on my mind a lot lately, and I suppose I just wanted to speak to others to help myself organize my thoughts.


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## wilson

It seems more like an incompatibility problem rather than anything objectively wrong that he or you are doing. Some people are homebodies who don't like kids. Some people are active and want a family. There's nothing wrong with either kind of person that needs to be fixed. 

Are you two similar ages? If so, I can't even really fault him for not being sure of what he wanted when you were dating. Most people in their early 20's are full of hopes and dreams without really understanding what it takes to get there. He may have thought having kids would be fun, but now he's feeling the weight of the world and isn't so eager anymore.

Marriage is supposed to last a lifetime. Your partner should be someone who helps make that lifetime fun. It's hard to see how he can become the person you want him to be. Maybe he'll force himself to do be more active, but it's not clear if it'll ever be more than a chore to him. You definitely should not have kids with him until you are happy with the relationship. As you know, kids bring a lot of stress. If he's not onboard, it'll likely just make things worse.

Each situation is different, but the likely outcome is that he keeps reverting to who he is at the core. There will be cycles of discussion, change in behavior, regression, discussion, etc. There's always the chance he'll have a true change of heart, but you'll need to decide how long you want to wait for that to happen.


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## LeavesInFall

DoesItGetBetter? said:


> You want another baby, and you made this clear during dating, to which he agreed at the time. It is good of him that he has been doing his part to try to have a baby with you for a long period of time, although it has been without success. Have you completed tests for the ability to reproduce on your end? It is odd to me that he has so far refused to complete a simple fertility test on his end. Perhaps he does not really want another child. A counselor would likely get him to admit this or complete the fertility test, as this is a major issue for you. I'm sorry to hear about your situation.


Yes, I have completed all the tests my doctor would do on me before my husband completes his, which was simply a pap and blood work to ensure I'm ovulating correctly and nothing came up negatively. My doctor explained that if my husband's test came back fine, then they would do further testing on me and so on. But we can't more forward until he's done his part.

I've definitely been thinking that maybe he really doesn't want a baby and maybe he's too afraid to tell me. It's definitely something I will be discussing with him while my daughter is out of town for the weekend. I have told him that this is bothering me and that I want to get it dealt with. He just agrees and then does nothing.

I would like to see a counselor, but he has refused in the past. Maybe once I talk to him about the seriousness of this for me, he might go then. Or at least talk to me honestly about it.


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## michzz

I think you should consider divorcing him, taking your first kid with you, leave without putting him on the hook financially at all.

Then get a test tube baby from an anonymous donor. 

Ah, but do find a way to explain to your first kid and any additional kid how come there is no father in their life.


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## LeavesInFall

3Xnocharm said:


> Have you come out and point blank ASKED him if he still wants children? Just because he told you something back then doesnt mean that he still feels it NOW. But if he still does, then his reluctance to get tested could be because he fears a negative outcome. He could be afraid of what it means for the marriage if it turns out he cannot father a child, and he isnt comfortable expressing that fear to you. Honestly he sounds depressed. He is in a job he hates and I know for many men, that is a complete life-suck... its all they can think about and causes constant stress, self esteem issues, depression, etc. He may be stressed that the job doesnt pay well, so bringing more children into the home just looks like even more expense in his eyes. Depression would also make him not want to get out and do any of those things like camping and hiking.
> 
> I think you need to have a conversation where you try and draw out exactly what it is that he is going through and what he is thinking. I have a feeling that he has been feeling attacked in recent talks, so really come from a place of concern for his well being. Maybe if he feels supported, he will be willing to seek some help.


I've brought up the baby thing a lot recently. He agrees and then doesn't do anything. I suppose I should be more concise with my requests.
And I've definitely thought about him maybe being depressed. I did ask him, but he said he didn't think that was it and that he just hated his job. And I see the stress, depression, worry, anger, frustration that it causes. I think sometimes he doesn't though.

I try not to attack, but I know how we intend things to seem are not always how they are interpreted. When I do talk to him, I will try to communicate the support better. Because I want to know how he feels and what he's thinking.


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## LeavesInFall

wilson said:


> Welcome. You came up with a very witty username/topic combination.


Honestly, that was not my intention! It was more of looking around the room for inspiration and the coming of the fall weather in my area. But I didn't realize the connection until you pointed it out XD


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## LeavesInFall

Lostinthought61 said:


> my understanding is that it takes a year for divorce to be occur in Canada...might i suggest that if you initiate divorce proceedings you can tell him he has one year to prove himself or the divorce will go through.


That was my idea behind a separation, not a true divorce. Just to take some time for ourselves and analyze whether the things we both want are things we want to work for. 

I don't think I'm ready to give up completely yet. But I'm definitely almost there.


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## LeavesInFall

sokillme said:


> Don't couch it, better that he knows now when he still has a chance.
> 
> "I want a baby do you?" "I am bored and hate sitting around home all day."
> 
> Maybe you should write him a letter so it's not an argument.


I definitely thought about writing a letter, and I think that's a good idea.

I wasn't about to up and leave without talking to him first. I do want to give him a chance.


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## LeavesInFall

wilson said:


> It seems more like an incompatibility problem rather than anything objectively wrong that he or you are doing. Some people are homebodies who don't like kids. Some people are active and want a family. There's nothing wrong with either kind of person that needs to be fixed.
> 
> Are you two similar ages? If so, I can't even really fault him for not being sure of what he wanted when you were dating. Most people in their early 20's are full of hopes and dreams without really understanding what it takes to get there. He may have thought having kids would be fun, but now he's feeling the weight of the world and isn't so eager anymore.
> 
> Marriage is supposed to last a lifetime. Your partner should be someone who helps make that lifetime fun. It's hard to see how he can become the person you want him to be. Maybe he'll force himself to do be more active, but it's not clear if it'll ever be more than a chore to him. You definitely should not have kids with him until you are happy with the relationship. As you know, kids bring a lot of stress. If he's not onboard, it'll likely just make things worse.
> 
> Each situation is different, but the likely outcome is that he keeps reverting to who he is at the core. There will be cycles of discussion, change in behavior, regression, discussion, etc. There's always the chance he'll have a true change of heart, but you'll need to decide how long you want to wait for that to happen.


This is exactly how I feel most of the time. I often feel like we're just not really "right" for each other, as silly as that sounds. I know that no relationship is ever a perfect match and it takes work, but I sometimes just feel like no matter how much work either of us do, it won't feel right. Like the two mismatched puzzle pieces that actually fit but not quite right.

He is 8 years older than me. I was young. I had my daughter young. I feel like I knew what I wanted and haven't really wavered in that. He may see that differently, but I don't know how. I'll have to ask him.

I also don't want to force anyone to be someone they're not. But how do you draw the line between a person just being themselves and needing to make personal changes for the betterment of a relationship?

I have thought that maybe we haven't gotten pregnant because it's just not meant to be. And of course, adding a new baby to an unsure situation is never the answer. I just need to talk to him clearly about it and hopefully get a straight answer so I know where we go from here.


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## LeavesInFall

michzz said:


> I think you should consider divorcing him, taking your first kid with you, leave without putting him on the hook financially at all.
> 
> Then get a test tube baby from an anonymous donor.
> 
> Ah, but do find a way to explain to your first kid and any additional kid how come there is no father in their life.


That's an interesting suggestion. I don't know how the test tube baby thing works in Canada but I don't think you can do it when you're single unless you're filthy rich XD

And I have explained to my daughter why her biological father isn't in her life. That was a volatile relationship that was turning violent and I had enough experience with the effects of domestic violence on children, that I knew to leave and leave fast. 

But I don't think I would knowingly bring a test tube baby into the world without any clue of who the father was XD


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## Casual Observer

LeavesInFall said:


> I have thought that maybe we haven't gotten pregnant because it's just not meant to be. And of course, adding a new baby to an unsure situation is never the answer. I just need to talk to him clearly about it and hopefully get a straight answer so I know where we go from here.


Is it possible that having a baby is more important to you than the relationship with your husband? Your husband may have picked up on this. He may have friends at work that have told him stories of feeling abandoned by their wives after their kid(s) came along. Heroic efforts to try and have a kid may make such feelings even stronger. And even if they don't, now, they could create resentment down the road, after the kid is born. 

I think you need to fix your marriage first, starting with whether or not you can be happy in a marriage without a new kid. And THEN, and only then, have your husband tested to see if he's shooting blanks. Because if it turns out he is shooting blanks, what then? Would you dump him because he's not able to father a child? And even if you weren't, would HE think you wouldn't? Would he always be feeling inadequate, something that's already the case in his work? 

You spoke of a previously-volatile relationship that could have turned violent. Today you speak of a husband who drinks more than you think he should. Let's not risk looking back on this relationship the same way. The risk is there. If he feels sufficiently walled-in, unable to feel like he can make a positive change in his environment, nothing good awaits your marriage. 

If you do choose to separate, I think it's over. It's just part of the formal process of divorce.


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## wilson

Do you think part of what attracted you to him in the first place was his safety and stability? I'd imagine a single parent after leaving a chaotic relationship would find something like that highly comforting. Maybe now after all this time you're feeling more secure about yourself and your future and are thinking you want more.

Your partner actually sounds like a responsible person that has the traits of a good spouse. He's staying in a job that he may not like, but it's allowing him to support the household. That's the reality for many people. They go to work to support their family and they don't need to like their job. Some other people go from job to job (or don't work at all) and don't worry about finances because they are trying to be happy.

There will always be compromises in a marriage. Chances are, you're not going to find a guy who has all the qualities you want like he loves his high-paying job, wants kids, loves the outdoors, and wants to be a step parent. Somethings you'll match on, somethings you won't. And over time, people change. Someone who loves the outdoors may become more of a homebody. Hopefully the spouses change and compromise together to keep the marriage happy.

If you guys were just dating, what do you think you'd do? Would you stick it out and try to make it work, or would you decide to call it quits?


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## michzz

michzz said:


> I think you should consider divorcing him, taking your first kid with you, leave without putting him on the hook financially at all.
> 
> Then get a test tube baby from an anonymous donor.
> 
> Ah, but do find a way to explain to your first kid and any additional kid how come there is no father in their life.





LeavesInFall said:


> That's an interesting suggestion. I don't know how the test tube baby thing works in Canada but I don't think you can do it when you're single unless you're filthy rich XD
> 
> And I have explained to my daughter why her biological father isn't in her life. That was a volatile relationship that was turning violent and I had enough experience with the effects of domestic violence on children, that I knew to leave and leave fast.
> 
> But I don't think I would knowingly bring a test tube baby into the world without any clue of who the father was XD


My point is this: do not stay with your guy just to get pregnant. Nobody likes to get used. 

If you really do not care much for him, then move on.

It is a simple enough thing to get impregnated by someone not emotionally or legally attached to you once you leave him.

I mean, why drag him into it?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

wilson said:


> Do you think part of what attracted you to him in the first place was his safety and stability? I'd imagine a single parent after leaving a chaotic relationship would find something like that highly comforting. Maybe now after all this time you're feeling more secure about yourself and your future and are thinking you want more.
> 
> Your partner actually sounds like a responsible person that has the traits of a good spouse. He's staying in a job that he may not like, but it's allowing him to support the household. That's the reality for many people. They go to work to support their family and they don't need to like their job. Some other people go from job to job (or don't work at all) and don't worry about finances because they are trying to be happy.
> 
> There will always be compromises in a marriage. Chances are, you're not going to find a guy who has all the qualities you want like he loves his high-paying job, wants kids, loves the outdoors, and wants to be a step parent. Somethings you'll match on, somethings you won't. And over time, people change. Someone who loves the outdoors may become more of a homebody. Hopefully the spouses change and compromise together to keep the marriage happy.
> 
> If you guys were just dating, what do you think you'd do? Would you stick it out and try to make it work, or would you decide to call it quits?


Staying in a job you hat is only commendable as a sign of stability if you dont use it to play the martyr or burden those you love with your misery. I've had jobs I dont like, but I never transferred my discontent to others.

Nor did I ever turn to a bottle.... also not a sign of stability or good husbandry.

She's told him she supports him moving to a different job. That's something pretty significant compromise right there.


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## LeavesInFall

michzz said:


> My point is this: do not stay with your guy just to get pregnant. Nobody likes to get used.
> 
> If you really do not care much for him, then move on.
> 
> It is a simple enough thing to get impregnated by someone not emotionally or legally attached to you once you leave him.
> 
> I mean, why drag him into it?


Okay, I get what you're saying. But I never said anything to that effect. Nobody is getting used. I was always under the impression that we would get pregnant and have children and have a family. That's what I wanted and thought he wanted to. If he had said anything different, we wouldn't have made it as far as we have.

So, if he doesn't want that, then I would never "drag him into it". I would never make someone do what they don't want to.

I also never said I did not care for him. I do. Otherwise I would have just up and left without trying or saying anything. But it is getting to the point where I feel like I need to move on, if these things don't get worked out. Which I will be talking to him about very soon.


----------



## LeavesInFall

Casual Observer said:


> Is it possible that having a baby is more important to you than the relationship with your husband? Your husband may have picked up on this. He may have friends at work that have told him stories of feeling abandoned by their wives after their kid(s) came along. Heroic efforts to try and have a kid may make such feelings even stronger. And even if they don't, now, they could create resentment down the road, after the kid is born.
> 
> I think you need to fix your marriage first, starting with whether or not you can be happy in a marriage without a new kid. And THEN, and only then, have your husband tested to see if he's shooting blanks. Because if it turns out he is shooting blanks, what then? Would you dump him because he's not able to father a child? And even if you weren't, would HE think you wouldn't? Would he always be feeling inadequate, something that's already the case in his work?
> 
> You spoke of a previously-volatile relationship that could have turned violent. Today you speak of a husband who drinks more than you think he should. Let's not risk looking back on this relationship the same way. The risk is there. If he feels sufficiently walled-in, unable to feel like he can make a positive change in his environment, nothing good awaits your marriage.
> 
> If you do choose to separate, I think it's over. It's just part of the formal process of divorce.


That could be it. And he may already feel that way sometimes when I focus more energy on my daughter. And that would be scary multiplied by 2. But if that's an issue, then it's something we can work out with various strategies by carving out more time together, before and after a baby. 

I understand the idea of not being able to father children is scary. I'm scared for him. But it might not even be him. It might be me now. Women have had a baby and then suddenly can't anymore. We have talked about the fact that we might not be able to conceive. We could adopt or consider fostering, but he flat out refused. "I already adopted a kid" and yes, he kind of did and I know that it's hard to be a step-parent. And he may actually be worried I would leave if he can't have children. I would feel the same way but I would also want to explore other options. 

So how do we fix a marriage if our goals truly are different on such an enormous topic? My whole identity since I was little, was built on the fact that I was going to be a mother. And I have one beautiful child, but the idea of leaving this world with only one scares the heck out of me. How can I surrender that part of myself?

And the idea of looking back on our marriage the same way as my previous relationship, that has never been a problem. I've constantly praised him as being a much better man then my daughter's bio-father. My husband takes great pride in that. And I don't think I've ever walled him in. I've always encouraged positive change and learning. But maybe he feels I have? He's never said anything like that.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LeavesInFall said:


> So how do we fix a marriage if our goals truly are different on such an enormous topic? My whole identity since I was little, was built on the fact that I was going to be a mother. And I have one beautiful child, but the idea of leaving this world with only one scares the heck out of me. How can I surrender that part of myself?


I had always envisioned/planned on having two children. However I chose badly in the husband department, and desperately did NOT want another child with my daughter's father. We divorced when she was 2 1/2. After that, I ended up living with and marrying a man many years older than me, who had told me in the beginning that he was more than willing for us to have a child together, but a couple of things went on that made that not happen. We were not very stable financially, and him finding out that his 18 year old daughter wasnt his turned him against women and any idea of any more kids. Not to mention he also turned out to be another horrible spouse choice on my part. Yay me. By the time my daughter was 8, I decided that I was not about to start over again with the whole diapers and potty training and etc etc anyway. While I do wish that my daughter had a sibling, it really was best in the long run since I ended up being a single mom with not a lot of money. I'm not sure how I would have made it with more than one child in the picture. Sometimes life shifts in ways that you just dont anticipate. But I am so grateful for the child I DO have, she is my life. She is 22 now and in college and I couldnt be more proud.


----------



## Marduk

LeavesInFall said:


> Hello, I'm 28 and from Canada. I have just been thinking about separation from my husband of 4 years and wanted a place to talk about it. I live in a smaller community and work in the mental health field, so finding people to talk to about it openly is difficult. Thus why I'm here!




Also from Canada and have been through the process of separation and divorce. Although I understand it can vary from province to province, and has likely changed since I went through it. 

Happy to help.


----------



## Marduk

LeavesInFall said:


> To be honest, I' have not given an ultimatum. I know that I should, and I do have plans of talking with him this weekend, when my father takes my daughter on a trip. Which is also part of what brought me here.
> 
> 
> 
> However, I have talked about my feelings over the years. It's not like I've been silent. I have tried to be as open as possible, which I know is not always as open as I should have been. My education has helped me a lot in the communication department though, and I feel I have been much better at it the past two years. But I don't think he understands the severity of my feelings, which would be a lapse in my own communication of the issues. He is also really good at agreeing with me but not necessarily putting resolutions into action. Which I suppose is where the disconnect is.




I would not recommend an ultimatum. They have rarely worked for me as intended. 

What I would recommend is saying “husband, part of me marrying you was with the understanding that we’d have a child together. If you’re not going to at least try, then are you making me choose between having children or being married to you?”


----------



## Marduk

LeavesInFall said:


> manfromlamancha,
> He does seem unhappy. I don't know why he stays at the job. I've asked him and he doesn't really give straight answer. He has said that he doesn't know where he would go. A lot of the work men take in our area is based off of forestry or mining and neither are secure. I do understand the reluctance. He is such a hard worker though and to do so much for so little seems so self-defeating. At least to me. Maybe he sees it another way but doesn't tell me?
> 
> And the counselor thing I know is hard for men. I see it everyday.
> 
> And as for the baby thing being a deal breaker... Well, it seems like it. For the last two years, I tried to convince myself that it would be okay to have just one but I just can't. At least if I could have some concrete answers, I may feel differently, but I don't know.
> 
> Maybe he does want to leave. I don't know, he has never mentioned it. I do know I need to talk about these things with him. It's been on my mind a lot lately, and I suppose I just wanted to speak to others to help myself organize my thoughts.




My read is that he might be worried to hear he can’t have kids, and that will mean losing you. 

It would explain why he doesn’t want to get checked out, as an alternate explanation to just not bothering.


----------



## LeavesInFall

wilson said:


> Do you think part of what attracted you to him in the first place was his safety and stability? I'd imagine a single parent after leaving a chaotic relationship would find something like that highly comforting. Maybe now after all this time you're feeling more secure about yourself and your future and are thinking you want more.
> 
> Your partner actually sounds like a responsible person that has the traits of a good spouse. He's staying in a job that he may not like, but it's allowing him to support the household. That's the reality for many people. They go to work to support their family and they don't need to like their job. Some other people go from job to job (or don't work at all) and don't worry about finances because they are trying to be happy.
> 
> There will always be compromises in a marriage. Chances are, you're not going to find a guy who has all the qualities you want like he loves his high-paying job, wants kids, loves the outdoors, and wants to be a step parent. Somethings you'll match on, somethings you won't. And over time, people change. Someone who loves the outdoors may become more of a homebody. Hopefully the spouses change and compromise together to keep the marriage happy.
> 
> If you guys were just dating, what do you think you'd do? Would you stick it out and try to make it work, or would you decide to call it quits?


Oh, the stability was a huge factor for me. Not just as a young mom, but as someone who grew up without it too. Also, I am feeling more secure about myself. I have changed. I've changed a lot and become more self aware, always working to be a stronger, more confident person. And maybe he sees that and feels left behind, or that he can't change too, or that he doesn't want to. 

And I do want more, but I want more with him. Not despite or without him.

He has been a good spouse in a lot of ways. But without going into too much detail, his job does not support the household. My job does. I have paid mostly all the household bills the entire time we've been together. He has only paid a handful of times, when I was off work for 5 months due to a medical issue. My mobile home is in my name. He pays for his truck and half the groceries.
And we've talked about the fact that no one really likes their job. But it's not just not liking it, he hates it. He hates the people he works with. He hates that he does so much work and gets paid so little. The obvious answer to me is to change the job. I've told him it affects us at home. We feel like we have to tiptoe around when he comes home. And you know that he has had a really bad day when he comes home toting a pack of beer.

I also know that nobody will ever fit our images of the perfect partner. I am not so naive as that. I feel that I've tried to be very forgiving, but perhaps not forgiving enough.

If we were dating, and all the things had surfaced before we were engaged (and he proposed really early, we were only dating for about 8 months), I would have left. However, I do feel there is a higher level of commitment in a marriage.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

So the job he hates so much doesnt even support the household?? Thats insanity! Some food and his own truck payment is all he contributes and everyone else gets to suffer for his misery. Makes absolutely no sense to me at all.


----------



## LeavesInFall

Marduk said:


> I would not recommend an ultimatum. They have rarely worked for me as intended.
> 
> What I would recommend is saying “husband, part of me marrying you was with the understanding that we’d have a child together. If you’re not going to at least try, then are you making me choose between having children or being married to you?”


That is an excellent way of wording it, thank you.
I did struggle with using the word "ultimatum" because it's not really what I want to do, but I do want to express how serious this issue is for me. We've discussed it, but I don't think I've clearly communicated the enormity of it. Which is my fault. I should have been clearer about it a lot sooner. But I was trying to be patient and kind and allow him the space to do go forward with the testing in his own time. Well intentions but poor delivery.


----------



## LeavesInFall

Marduk said:


> My read is that he might be worried to hear he can’t have kids, and that will mean losing you.
> 
> It would explain why he doesn’t want to get checked out, as an alternate explanation to just not bothering.


I worry about the same thing. It would be something we could work through if he were willing to consider alternatives, which he's not, he told me. But maybe faced with the reality of not being able to have children, he may change his mind. I don't know. All I know is that it's a big issue for me and one that we can't put off forever. 

And I never really thought he was just not bothering. I've always wondered if there was a specific reason. I have asked him and he just keeps saying that he doesn't have a doctor (which he doesn't). But his parents' doctor and my doctor both said they would take him, so there's really no excuse, other than he's worried about something else.


----------



## LeavesInFall

3Xnocharm said:


> So the job he hates so much doesnt even support the household?? Thats insanity! Some food and his own truck payment is all he contributes and everyone else gets to suffer for his misery. Makes absolutely no sense to me at all.


It's always kind of bothered me. But I know the truck payment is expensive and so is insurance. And we use the truck for long trips. I have talked to him about contributing more and he says that yeah, he should, but then doesn't. 

And he stays so upset long after he's home. He was so angry when he came home late last night that he was still shaking after he talked about it, had a shower and dinner. Then I feel like we obviously don't make him happy, and try harder to make him happy. I try to make sure that dinner is ready and the house is tidy for when he comes home. I try to tell him positive things like, my daughter did the cleaning he asked her to do, or look at these clothes I got for her etc etc.

I mean, I know I'm not a ray of sunshine all the time. I have periods of being depressed and guaranteed one day a month in which I have no patience at all. But I usually voice it, let it happen and then continue on, focusing on the future and being more positive. But I know everyone handles these things differently, particularly men. I tried to suggest him getting out on his own more, like going out with some friends, but he doesn't really have any friends he talks to anymore.

So I know it looks like it's all me wanting more from the relationship, but I've tried so much. I've tried to make him happy and satisfied and to help him enjoy life. But I'm either not trying the right things or it's just not working.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LeavesInFall said:


> *And he stays so upset long after he's home. He was so angry when he came home late last night that he was still shaking after he talked about it, had a shower and dinner. *Then I feel like we obviously don't make him happy, and try harder to make him happy. I try to make sure that dinner is ready and the house is tidy for when he comes home. I try to tell him positive things like, my daughter did the cleaning he asked her to do, or look at these clothes I got for her etc etc.


This used to be how my first husband was, he would fume and dwell on work all freaking night long after he got home. It was a complete life-suck. And you can dance around and walk on eggshells all you want, it wont make him happy. 

This is NOT the environment to bring a new baby into, sorry to say.


----------



## wilson

The more we learn, the more I'm thinking you'd be better on your own. I really commend you for taking your marriage seriously and trying to make it work, but it shouldn't be so one-sided. I'm not really seeing how he is putting in an appropriate amount of effort. I'm certain there are benefits to be with him, but I'm not sure it's worth all these downsides.

As I'm sure you're aware, having a child means being involved more than just for the few minutes of fun at the beginning. I'm not getting the sense that he would be an involved parent. It will certainly be a challenging environment to raise a child in if the family feels they need to tip-toe around him so he doesn't get upset.

There are also some troubling signs concerning his anger and drinking. We've heard many stories here and through experience that may have us wondering where this will lead. Issues like these tend to get worse and more destructive.

I can understand wanting to make it work, but don't hold onto false hope eternal. You should see significant progress that things are getting better. You shouldn't feel worried to bring up these issues because of his anger. If you find that you're making excuse after excuse for him, that's a sign that you're better of cutting your losses.


----------



## Marduk

LeavesInFall said:


> It's always kind of bothered me. But I know the truck payment is expensive and so is insurance. And we use the truck for long trips. I have talked to him about contributing more and he says that yeah, he should, but then doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> And he stays so upset long after he's home. He was so angry when he came home late last night that he was still shaking after he talked about it, had a shower and dinner. Then I feel like we obviously don't make him happy, and try harder to make him happy. I try to make sure that dinner is ready and the house is tidy for when he comes home. I try to tell him positive things like, my daughter did the cleaning he asked her to do, or look at these clothes I got for her etc etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, I know I'm not a ray of sunshine all the time. I have periods of being depressed and guaranteed one day a month in which I have no patience at all. But I usually voice it, let it happen and then continue on, focusing on the future and being more positive. But I know everyone handles these things differently, particularly men. I tried to suggest him getting out on his own more, like going out with some friends, but he doesn't really have any friends he talks to anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> So I know it looks like it's all me wanting more from the relationship, but I've tried so much. I've tried to make him happy and satisfied and to help him enjoy life. But I'm either not trying the right things or it's just not working.



Why was he so angry?

Why does he stay at a job he hates, and only pays for himself?


----------



## LeavesInFall

3Xnocharm said:


> This used to be how my first husband was, he would fume and dwell on work all freaking night long after he got home. It was a complete life-suck. And you can dance around and walk on eggshells all you want, it wont make him happy.
> 
> This is NOT the environment to bring a new baby into, sorry to say.


It is a drain on myself and my daughter. It's exhausting. And I know deep down that no matter what I do, he has to be happy for himself. I can try all I want but in the end, it won't change anything unless he wants it to.

And I suppose it's not a good environment for a baby. It's not. Which makes me sad.


----------



## LeavesInFall

wilson said:


> The more we learn, the more I'm thinking you'd be better on your own. I really commend you for taking your marriage seriously and trying to make it work, but it shouldn't be so one-sided. I'm not really seeing how he is putting in an appropriate amount of effort. I'm certain there are benefits to be with him, but I'm not sure it's worth all these downsides.
> 
> As I'm sure you're aware, having a child means being involved more than just for the few minutes of fun at the beginning. I'm not getting the sense that he would be an involved parent. It will certainly be a challenging environment to raise a child in if the family feels they need to tip-toe around him so he doesn't get upset.
> 
> There are also some troubling signs concerning his anger and drinking. We've heard many stories here and through experience that may have us wondering where this will lead. Issues like these tend to get worse and more destructive.
> 
> I can understand wanting to make it work, but don't hold onto false hope eternal. You should see significant progress that things are getting better. You shouldn't feel worried to bring up these issues because of his anger. If you find that you're making excuse after excuse for him, that's a sign that you're better of cutting your losses.


I had worried about what kind of father he would be, I have thought that he wouldn't be the kind of father I had hoped for my children, but then I think that it's not fair to place those kinds of expectations on someone. Because none of us are perfect. But I don't know that the positives outweigh the negatives anymore, so I've been conflicted. I had hoped that when I had more children, that the father would be different than my daughter's bio-father. And I'm sure my husband would be different in some ways, but similar in some as well. 

I don't think he would ever do anything violent while drinking. For about a year, we used to argue about the silliest things when he would be drinking but we haven't for about a year or two and it never got violent. He's never expressed the wish to inflict violence on me, except one threat if I ever cheated on him. Which has never been an issue. And I do know that if he was that way, I would leave. I won't be the wife that makes excuses and stays and lives with the threat to my own or my daughter's safety. That's why I left my daughter's bio-father; he punched a hole in a door and that was enough. I lived through that as a child and I won't ever let my daughter go through it.

I think I realized that the hope is almost gone, and that's part of why I'm here. I think having a discussion with him will be really important and then seeing how things go from there. I just don't want to waste too much time, if that's really what I'm doing.


----------



## LeavesInFall

Marduk said:


> Why was he so angry?
> 
> Why does he stay at a job he hates, and only pays for himself?


He was angry just because of how his day went: he doesn't get along with his coworkers, the machinery wasn't running well, he had to work later and was exhausted. But I had never seen him shake like that. It was actually quite alarming. I asked him and he said it was because his nerves were shot.

As for why he stays, I'm not really sure. I have asked him and he just says, "Where will I go?" and goes off about the instability of industry. 

I think a part of it is that he would have to situate himself with new people, and he is not the easiest guy to get along with. He is quiet and withdrawn and if you do something to upset him, like slack off and he has to pick up the work, he does not forget nor forgive. He has been at this job almost 15 years. I do understand it would be terrifying trying to find a new job after that. But I think he just doesn't see how the negatives outweigh the positives and would prefer to stay put than change anything. 

His family is like that too, though. His parents don't do anything, really. They don't have friends, they never see the family they have in town. They are very negative people and seem content to live in mediocrity. It makes me sad because I don't want to be like that when I'm older. 

And as to why he only pays for himself... I suppose it's because I allow it. I know I should have been more "forceful" with him contributing to the household bills a long time ago, but I continued to justify it. "He pays for the truck, and we use the truck the most, and he at least pays for half the groceries, and he did help with the bills when I was off work..." So, I've been paying for everything. 

I suppose a bit of it is my pride too. When it was just my daughter and I, we were broke, but we were doing fine. I was able to pay for everything. I worked very hard to do that and have always been very independent. So I guess that feeling continues, but I have asked for his help. Probably not as forcefully as I should have, which is why it hasn't happened. Maybe if we did split it up, he would have less money for beer.


----------



## attheend02

LeavesInFall said:


> He was angry just because of how his day went: he doesn't get along with his coworkers, the machinery wasn't running well, he had to work later and was exhausted. But I had never seen him shake like that. It was actually quite alarming. I asked him and he said it was because his nerves were shot.
> 
> As for why he stays, I'm not really sure. I have asked him and he just says, "Where will I go?" and goes off about the instability of industry.
> 
> I think a part of it is that he would have to situate himself with new people, and he is not the easiest guy to get along with. He is quiet and withdrawn and if you do something to upset him, like slack off and he has to pick up the work, he does not forget nor forgive. He has been at this job almost 15 years. I do understand it would be terrifying trying to find a new job after that. But I think he just doesn't see how the negatives outweigh the positives and would prefer to stay put than change anything.
> 
> His family is like that too, though. His parents don't do anything, really. They don't have friends, they never see the family they have in town. They are very negative people and seem content to live in mediocrity. It makes me sad because I don't want to be like that when I'm older.
> 
> And as to why he only pays for himself... I suppose it's because I allow it. I know I should have been more "forceful" with him contributing to the household bills a long time ago, but I continued to justify it. "He pays for the truck, and we use the truck the most, and he at least pays for half the groceries, and he did help with the bills when I was off work..." So, I've been paying for everything.
> 
> I suppose a bit of it is my pride too. When it was just my daughter and I, we were broke, but we were doing fine. I was able to pay for everything. I worked very hard to do that and have always been very independent. So I guess that feeling continues, but I have asked for his help. Probably not as forcefully as I should have, which is why it hasn't happened. Maybe if we did split it up, he would have less money for beer.



It sounds to me (from experience) that he is depressed.

There are all kinds of reasons for this... I would suggest that you try to help him to figure that out.

I don't mean its your responsibility... only that the alternative is either divorce or unhappiness.


----------



## Marduk

So, to summarize, your husband provides you:

1. The use of his truck

And costs you:
1. Having more children
2. To walk on eggshells
3. Feeling alone

While you provide him:
1. A home
2. Sex
3. Attention

Which costs him:
0. Nothing

This doesn’t sound like a very good deal.


----------



## MattMatt

LeavesInFall said:


> Yeah, it definitely seems that way. I know the post is definitely one-sided but I can really only speak for myself, which I suppose is why my post looks like that. And heck yeah, I want a baby! That was a big part of "the plan".
> 
> As for what I'm doing for the relationship? I know what I've done. I've been patient, I've been complimenting him more and trying to express my gratitude for the things he does do, I've tried to help him with parenting my daughter by not nit-picking and noticing the positive things, because I know it's hard being a step-parent (The parenting thing is another issue but that's long too). I've taken his suggestions for parenting, such as kicking her outside more. I've tried talking about these things and coming to a resolution to problems. I've listened to his requests; He has asked me not to make plans without consulting him first. Now I consult him (which was a big one for him). We spend more time without tech and sit down at the table more for dinner. I've tried to pay more loving attention to him by touching him more and I always, always, without fail, ask him how his day was. I've also suggested counseling for us to talk in a different environment, with someone to mediate. Is there more I can do? I'm sure there is, but at this point, I don't know what else to do. Suggestions are helpful.
> 
> As I said, I know it's not all him. I definitely have my faults too, I would never deny that. I do know that I'm working on them though. My temper has improved greatly.
> 
> I know how it looks when you're only getting one side of the story. I don't want to seem like that selfish wife who only sees her side because I don't think that's me. But if you think that and have any suggestions, I'm open to hear them.


Did he have a vasectomy that he "forgot" to tell you about?


----------



## MattMatt

michzz said:


> I think you should consider divorcing him, taking your first kid with you, leave without putting him on the hook financially at all.
> 
> Then get a test tube baby from an anonymous donor.
> 
> Ah, but do find a way to explain to your first kid and any additional kid how come there is no father in their life.


There seems to be no father figure at present, does there?


----------



## jlg07

Leaves, for your talk this weekend, you may want to write down your talking points that you want to discuss to a) make sure you are clear as to what your issues are, and b) take the emotion OUT of what you are trying to convey so that he doesn't feel defensive right away.


----------



## LeavesInFall

attheend02 said:


> It sounds to me (from experience) that he is depressed.
> 
> There are all kinds of reasons for this... I would suggest that you try to help him to figure that out.
> 
> I don't mean its your responsibility... only that the alternative is either divorce or unhappiness.


I definitely thought about this. I have straight up asked him, "Are you depressed?" But he honestly may not even know what depression looks or feels like.

I really feel like a counselor would help, but I don't think he would want to see one. Men's mental health is still so stigmatized. 

I will include the idea in our talk this weekend, see if he agrees and what he wants to do.


----------



## LeavesInFall

Marduk said:


> So, to summarize, your husband provides you:
> 
> 1. The use of his truck
> 
> And costs you:
> 1. Having more children
> 2. To walk on eggshells
> 3. Feeling alone
> 
> While you provide him:
> 1. A home
> 2. Sex
> 3. Attention
> 
> Which costs him:
> 0. Nothing
> 
> This doesn’t sound like a very good deal.


When you put it like that, it really doesn't sound very good. 

And I mean, he does other things, like the yard work. And he'll cook sometimes on the weekends now, because I cook all week and I told him recently that it's not fair for me to do all the cooking all the time because I work all week too. He will clean, if he is home alone, which isn't often, and I do most of it. But if I ask for more help, he insists my daughter should do more. But for a kid, I think she helps out a lot. And everyone should be helping. He says that he's tired after work but I am too. But my job isn't as physical as his is, so I think we both use that excuse to sweep that all under the rug. 

But that's honestly all I can think of, and that makes me sad too. I had never thought about it like that.


----------



## LeavesInFall

MattMatt said:


> Did he have a vasectomy that he "forgot" to tell you about?


I hope not... I had thought of that, or the fact that he knows he can't have children already. Because he told me that his relationship before, they were getting very serious and were talking about having children. But that clearly never happened.

But if either of those were the case, then he built everything on a lie when he knew how important it was to me to have more children. And that would make my decision quite clear.


----------



## MattMatt

LeavesInFall said:


> I hope not... I had thought of that, or the fact that he knows he can't have children already. Because he told me that his relationship before, they were getting very serious and were talking about having children. But that clearly never happened.
> 
> But if either of those were the case, then he built everything on a lie when he knew how important it was to me to have more children. And that would make my decision quite clear.


Yes, it would.

Could you find out if he is sterile? And if so, did he already know it?


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## MattMatt

LeavesInFall said:


> When you put it like that, it really doesn't sound very good.
> 
> And I mean, he does other things, like the yard work. And he'll cook sometimes on the weekends now, because I cook all week and I told him recently that it's not fair for me to do all the cooking all the time because I work all week too. He will clean, if he is home alone, which isn't often, and I do most of it. But if I ask for more help, he insists my daughter should do more. But for a kid, I think she helps out a lot. And everyone should be helping. He says that he's tired after work but I am too. But my job isn't as physical as his is, so I think we both use that excuse to sweep that all under the rug.
> 
> But that's honestly all I can think of, and that makes me sad too. I had never thought about it like that.


Whoa! Stop right there! 

He has two maid servants to run around for him? 

No. That's not acceptable.


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## LeavesInFall

MattMatt said:


> Yes, it would.
> 
> Could you find out if he is sterile? And if so, did he already know it?


I don't think I could find that out unless he told me. If there was a way, I don't know it.
I would like to think that he would tell me if we really sat down and talked about it. But I also think he would know what would happen if that were the case and he told me, so he might not. 
So I'm hoping that's not the case.


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## LeavesInFall

MattMatt said:


> Whoa! Stop right there!
> 
> He has two maid servants to run around for him?
> 
> No. That's not acceptable.


Yeah, as I typed that and was trying to think of other things, I realized how bad that really is. But of course I notice the workload on me.


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## Marduk

LeavesInFall said:


> Yeah, as I typed that and was trying to think of other things, I realized how bad that really is. But of course I notice the workload on me.



Does he agree it’s one sided? Or does he think it’s reasonable even though he pays for almost nothing?

On top of the kid thing, which I’m increasingly seeing as a good think you don’t get pregnant with him. 

If he’s smart, he’ll see the good thing he has going here and will be willing to work for it. But it’s going to require you to no longer be willing to accept such a crappy deal for yourself. And for your daughter!


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## 3Xnocharm

LeavesInFall said:


> When you put it like that, it really doesn't sound very good.
> 
> And I mean, he does other things, like the yard work. And he'll cook sometimes on the weekends now, because I cook all week and I told him recently that it's not fair for me to do all the cooking all the time because I work all week too. He will clean, if he is home alone, which isn't often, and I do most of it. But if I ask for more help, he insists my daughter should do more. But for a kid, I think she helps out a lot. And everyone should be helping. He says that he's tired after work but I am too. But my job isn't as physical as his is, so I think we both use that excuse to sweep that all under the rug.
> 
> But that's honestly all I can think of, and that makes me sad too. I had never thought about it like that.


When you get down to it, he really provides you and your daughter ZERO benefit, other than you get to say that you have a husband.


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## Openminded

He hit the lottery with you. He won't want to lose that either so when you have "the talk" he will probably make lots of promises that he's not likely to keep.


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## LeavesInFall

Marduk said:


> Does he agree it’s one sided? Or does he think it’s reasonable even though he pays for almost nothing?
> 
> On top of the kid thing, which I’m increasingly seeing as a good think you don’t get pregnant with him.
> 
> If he’s smart, he’ll see the good thing he has going here and will be willing to work for it. But it’s going to require you to no longer be willing to accept such a crappy deal for yourself. And for your daughter!


I'm not sure whether he sees it as one sided... I have told him that the finances are one sided and he agrees, but does nothing. He does tell me all the time that I would be lost without him, so maybe he thinks he does more? He does like to point out that he does all the yard work, but that's mowing the lawn and weed whacking, which needs to be done maybe once a week. Shoveling snow in the winter. Which I have taken up more the last two years, particularly when I come home before him. Oh, and he helped change some parts in my old car (I have a new one now) and taught me how to change the oil and tires over. But he brings it up sometimes, when I ask for more help around the house.

I kind of hope he'll try harder. 

I kind of figured that if I talk with him soon to express what I need to happen to feel comfortable staying, then by the New Year, I can do a re-evaluation of where things are and how far we've come. And if things haven't changed by then, I won't push it further.


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## LeavesInFall

3Xnocharm said:


> When you get down to it, he really provides you and your daughter ZERO benefit, other than you get to say that you have a husband.


I feel that way often. I also sometimes feel like he really only loves me for the things I can do for him. Other than that, it seems like he doesn't truly know me. 

I've often compared it to both of us on either side of a giant chasm. To get to the other side we each have to build one half of a bridge on our side. But if one person isn't building their piece, then the bridge will never be completed which leaves the person who built their half still stuck on their side of the chasm.

That's how I feel; I've built my half and am waiting for him to start.


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## LeavesInFall

Openminded said:


> He hit the lottery with you. He won't want to lose that either so when you have "the talk" he will probably make lots of promises that he's not likely to keep.


Well, thank you.

I have thought about him not following through and I think I will just have to do an evaluation in the New Year, to see if things change. If not, I will know what to do.


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## Marduk

LeavesInFall said:


> I'm not sure whether he sees it as one sided... I have told him that the finances are one sided and he agrees, but does nothing. He does tell me all the time that I would be lost without him, so maybe he thinks he does more? He does like to point out that he does all the yard work, but that's mowing the lawn and weed whacking, which needs to be done maybe once a week. Shoveling snow in the winter. Which I have taken up more the last two years, particularly when I come home before him. Oh, and he helped change some parts in my old car (I have a new one now) and taught me how to change the oil and tires over. But he brings it up sometimes, when I ask for more help around the house.
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of hope he'll try harder.
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of figured that if I talk with him soon to express what I need to happen to feel comfortable staying, then by the New Year, I can do a re-evaluation of where things are and how far we've come. And if things haven't changed by then, I won't push it further.



Somebody here a long time ago taught me the value of seeing relationships as a deal - either it’s win/win for both of you, or no deal.

You’re picking a win for him and a lose for you. Why? What motivates this? A fear of being alone?


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## Marduk

LeavesInFall said:


> Well, thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> I have thought about him not following through and I think I will just have to do an evaluation in the New Year, to see if things change. If not, I will know what to do.



You know what’s special about new year’s day?

Absolutely nothing.


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## aine

LeavesInFall said:


> It's just been years of not feeling respected and not feeling heard when I try to voice my concerns. But those reasons seem so small when I say it, and in comparison to other stories I've read on this forum. He isn't physically abusive, he doesn't have any real addictions issues (Except he drinks more than I feel is necessary, but I wouldn't call him an alcoholic). It all seems so arbitrary that I feel ridiculous talking about it. It seems so easy to repair, that if I try harder and wait longer then things will change. But I also feel I have tried and have waited. I've suggested counseling before but he is not open to the idea, insisting we can "fix things ourselves".
> 
> There are other problems. The big one is that I want another baby (I have a daughter from before I met him) but we have tried unsuccessfully and he has not done his part in getting further testing to find out if we even can have a baby. I wanted to be done having children by the time I was 30, and with that looming closer, I feel despondent. I have talked to him about it. I used "I feel" and "I need" statements. He agrees to do it and then doesn't. I offered to call the doctor. He has had the lab req's twice and didn't go in. I've thought that perhaps he doesn't actually want a baby? But that is not what he told me when we started dating and I was explicit in my wish for at least 2 more children.
> 
> Which leads me to the feeling that he made himself out to be someone else when we met. I feel like I was very transparent. I wanted to live life through experiences, go out with friends, spend time with family, go camping, hiking, fishing, I wanted more children, I was just starting my education and wanted to be financially stable. I told him all that and more, and he said that was how he was and wanted to live too. But we do none of those things. We sit around at home, he comes home from a job he hates, that doesn't pay well and he won't leave, even though I've begged him. He's miserable when he comes home and we are left walking on eggshells to make sure we don't upset him further. He doesn't have any friends except our neighbour, and would get upset when I would go out with my friends, and thus I've pushed them all away. We barely go camping or hiking. I forced us to go on a walk last week with the dogs and when I asked if he had fun (because I did), he said no and that he would have rather stayed home. We did also just go camping for the weekend. I hoped it would revive something for me, but it didn't and that is sort of what led me here. When we first met, he told me he spent a lot of time with his nephew but two years ago we were talking about his sister, he said he never spent a lot of time with his nephew. When I questioned him about it, he insisted he never said it. But I know he did and I can tell you the exact spot on our walk during our first date that he said it. So, just various discrepancies from the beginning of our relationship to now. I feel like I didn't actually know who I married.
> 
> There are other issues, but this is simply the Intro forum and I may post more in the "Considering Separation..." forum. I also don't want to play the blame game, because I'm sure I do things that he doesn't like either. I do love him but I feel like we are evolving differently and want different things out of life.


Do Not have a kid with this man. It is likely the disconnect is due to his excessive drinking, his first love is not you, it’s the bottle. I normally do not advocate divorce, but he has already broken his vows to you. It will not get better becaus he doesn’t care enough to do anything about it.


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