# Wife wants more "me" time



## JFalwaysrunning

Happily married for 4 years with 2 year old daughter. Both of us work full time, she's a teacher and I'm an accountant. Our hours are little lop sided where as she is home more with the baby and I work a lot. We try to balance the household responsibilities appropriately, I wouldn't say equally, she picks up more of the load because she is home more. 

She is training for a marathon which takes up a lot of her time and at the end of the day she still wants time to herself, even before the baby goes to bed. I am having trouble giving her this because she doesn't see her time that is devoted to running as "her time". Some nights, I don't sit down until 10pm and this is after I have given the baby a bath and cleaned up dinner and wife is already asleep in bed. 

I don't ask for me time, she lets me sleep in on weekends and the three hours a week I need to work on the lawn. I want to tell her that parenthood isn't about "me" time. She is a very independent person - we have split checking, split bills, different groups of friends etc. We are thinking of trying for a second child and I don't know if she realizes that with two kids, even when I am around, the "me" time is going to be nonexistent. 

Has anyone else had a similar conversation with their SO? How did you approach it?


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## Faithful Wife

Does she have running partners? Do you know them?

Have you expressed exactly what you said to us about how she should consider her running as "me" time? 

Do you have any hobbies? What are they?


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## Wiltshireman

OP,

When both partners work full time and share the childcare / domestic tasks between them it can get to a stage when all sides feel that there are just not enough hours in the day / days in the week.

Money has to be earned; your child needs to be cared for, the jobs around the home / garden need to be done. So how do you square the circle and ensure that you can each get some “me time”, you have some “mum & dad” time and some “family time” (this will be more important if you are blessed with a second child.

I have not found a magic answer but a good starting point is a big wall planner. I know that sounds strange but plotting out who is doing what / when can help you free up time that might otherwise be wasted. Go through a month’s planning with your wife, book up a sitter to cover you both for “date night”, free up one weekend for a family outing, try and each get an evening out with your own friends.


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## somethingelse

Question...who decided that you have separate banking accounts? That seems odd to me.

I would say that your W may not be fully accepting her role as mother yet. Maybe she is having a hard time coping with the lack of sleep and the changes that come with a growing toddler. They can be quite a handful as you are already finding out. 

After I had my second daughter I started to get into the groove of really being a mother full time. Before that I did give my daughter as much of me as I could, but I still fought what motherhood demands. I wanted the best of both worlds (a lifestyle with no children, and with children). I know now that it doesn't work that way, and we have to accept our role before we can pick up our socks and do what's needed.


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## Lyris

I run too. I have two kids. Basically, running is my me time, and I don't know why your wife wouldn't count it as such. 

Maybe sit down with a calendar and actually schedule out equal time free of work and kid/household stuff for both of you. How you spend that time is up to you.


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## jfv

Do you know who her friends are? 

Who she trains with?


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## JFalwaysrunning

@somethingelse - we've always had separate accounts but we split up bills accordingly so its not that neither her nor I is shorting the other on household fiscal responsibility, we have a system and it works so why change it. I have access to all of her accounts and reconcile monthly. 

@Faithful Wife - she does run with one of her best friends (female) and a couple of other people that I have met and hung out with and most are married. I've talked to her about her running time and we will see what happens after her marathon is done. I've told her I am going to need some time to devote to an exam I need to take for work and that is going to be about 10-15 hours per week of studying I need to do so I think we are on the same page now, but we will see in a couple of months.

@jfv - I do know who she runs with, have met them and doesn't seem like anything fishy is going on. Being the curious person I am, I've done some snooping and found nothing so I stopped snooping. 

Thanks everyone for your responses, this is great help and food for thought.


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## Mavash.

Running IS free time.

Stand your ground and you need to stop doing so much in the evenings.

She's using you.

Do not have another kid.

Oh and this split life you guys have going on is very detrimental to your marriage.


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## anotherguy

Without knowing the entire story - sounds like she is already at her limit for being able to adequately contribute to the life of the first child - having a second is NOT a good idea. You should both have a frank conversation about it. If what you say is pretty accurate - my concern is that the issue is not self evident to the both of you.

I need me time too, but never has it become a point of conflict - mostly because we both tend to just do what needs to be done - and we both tend to put family and household a little higher on the priority list.

This doesnt mean you 'need to' give up yourself entirely to the exclusion of all else for the sake of family - but if it isnt coming a little more easily - then you both need to figure out what is going before it gets worse.

You have only been married 4 years and have a 2 year old - and I have to say that we had been together for well over 15 years by the time we had a 4 year old. We had a lot of time to do our own thing and get careers going and blow some time on hobbies and all that. We were *very* well ready to settle down and have kids at that point. I'm guessing it has to be more of an adjustment for the 2 of you than it was for us. Hopefully she will begin to see that she doesnt have to 'lose' anything - but that the demands of a family are quite different - as she can undoubtedly see at this point. Im not giving her a pass - just saying I can see this happening even though she has had a couple years to get with the program.

I dont see the segregation and separate bank accounts and damanding jobs and all that as necessarily an issue. We eventually comingled everything and things change where you stop feeling like you are giving up your identity... but again - it can take time if we are any benchmark. At some point - it just seems crazy to separate everything - some seem to be fine with it - but I dont think any of the longer term couples I know personally operate that way.


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## anotherguy

Mavash. said:


> ..She's using you...


Yeah - that seems like way too much to infer. To me anyway.


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## Mavash.

anotherguy said:


> Yeah - that seems like way too much to infer. To me anyway.


They have a baby and he does all the work while she goes to bed?

They both have jobs outside the home, she has a hobby and he doesn't even sit down until 10pm.

Just calling it like I see it.


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## mule kick

I noticed you didn't say she wants more "we" time. Your marriage doesn't depend on how much time you spend apart but how much you want to spend together.


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## anotherguy

Mavash. said:


> They have a baby and he does all the work while she goes to bed?
> 
> They both have jobs outside the home, she has a hobby and he doesn't even sit down until 10pm.
> 
> Just calling it like I see it.


yep. 

She also picks up 'more of the load' of the household chores and lets him sleep on weekends.

Shrug.


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## Mavash.

anotherguy said:


> yep.
> 
> She also does 'more' of the household chores and lets him sleep on weekends.
> 
> Shrug.


I think the elephant in the room is adding another child.

The current situation isn't sustainable with 2 young children and she's already saying she needs more "me" time.

Should probably mention I hate that phrase "me time". Sounds selfish to me. In this case there are three people involved not just her.

I'm more about we time not me time.


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## anotherguy

Mavash. said:


> Should probably mention I hate that phrase "me time". Sounds selfish to me. In this case there are three people involved not just her..


I couldnt agree more.


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## Mavash.

Nope it's me time, separate finances, separate friends, she's 'independent', running marathons, etc.


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## Entropy3000

Lyris said:


> I run too. I have two kids. Basically, running is my me time, and I don't know why your wife wouldn't count it as such.
> 
> Maybe sit down with a calendar and actually schedule out equal time free of work and kid/household stuff for both of you. How you spend that time is up to you.


My wife and I did exactly this. It works.

Make sure WE time comes first. Right off the top. 

ME time, friend, relatives time, and so on come after.


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## LoriC

Ut Oh.....


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## JFalwaysrunning

Thank you Mavash. you summed it up pretty well. We had a good talk after her marathon and discussed holding off on having another baby this summer. 

The first reason to hold off was due to finances - having one kid in day care full time is basically equal to our mortgage payment, having two would be breaking the bank. I understood this and this has been the primary factor throughout our entire family planning process because we just can't afford to have her stay home full time.

The second reason however, I was upset with her about. Basically, she stated she is in a good spot now mentally, physically and socially and she doesn't want to change that right now. She does have a lot of self-esteem issues so for her to admit that is huge. I was upset because we already had a tough couple of months while she was putting in all this training (no time with each other, no sex, no communication), to keep up that up all summer is something I would not really look forward to, so we agreed to reduce her training time in half so it wouldn't pull her away from me and the family as much. 

Second, she really likes the running group she has become a part of, however, I think I am envious/jealous because I don't have a close group of friends, especially a group to work out with. We both were competitive runners in high school and college so we understand what it means to have that close group to train and hang out with. However, this group is primarily made up of people, both singles and married couples that have no kids. They juggle important careers, don't get me wrong, but I think my wife is trying to hang out with a crowd that pre-kids would have been no problem. It goes beyond running too - meeting up for drinks, game night etc. which I typically stay home with the baby due to lack of a baby sitter. I feel left out and she doesn't understand that so do I put my foot down and say this has to stop and mentally/socially she regresses in her accomplishments and we go back to being in a miserable relationship or do I let her have her freedom so she can be in a happy state of mind??


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## mule kick

Time to step up and get a babysitter. You 2 need to spend time together if you intend to remain married. You could certainly spend time with your kid without her but that's the same as me and I'm divorced which ain't cheap either. We have shared custody so she gets her free time and I get mine. But we aren't together anymore, which is pretty much where you are but you don't get any time.


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## Mavash.

The problem is she wants to behave as if she's single when she's not. A sitter won't fix your core problems. She's self absorbed because her main goal is to stay in this happy state of mind at yours and your kids expense.

Again there are THREE people in this family with needs not just her.


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## Hicks

You really have to wake up and stop trying to be so nice.

Many men make the mistake of giving in to their wive's desires becuase women are all moody and we all know that bad moods = no sex and good moods = maybe you have a prayer of getting sex... So whatever wife wants that you think will put her in a good mood you give her..

Guess what? It will not work.

The thruth of the matter is your wife cannot feel sexual toward you considering the importance she has assigned to you and to your marriage.

You have major structural issues in your marriage that need to be fixed. These are so profound that you have to realize that hangning on to such a structurally impaired marriage is not worth worrying about the risks you have to take to rebuild it.

A husband and wife have to be companions. The need to spend alot of time together, they need to be each other's main person to comuncate with, they need to do fun recreational things together, and they need to be physically and emotioanlly bonded.

Other people and activities outside the marriage including WORK and CHILDREN and MARATHONS and FRIENDS are assets to one's life, while the family itself is the PRIMARY PURPOSE of a married couple.

Now you know you need your wife as a sexual partner, as a friend, as a co-parent.... But you are afraid to hold her accountable to being all of this.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would have a conversation describing in a positive way the type of marriage you want to have, and give her about 2 days to choose this versus divorce. And then follow through based on the choice she makes.

I guess prior to doing this I would take a good hard look at myself and make sure I was a good enough husband so that she is choosing you at your best.


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## Fallen Leaf

I gave up me time when my first child was born. Still gave it up when my second child was born. Only now when both kids are old enough to wipe themselves, brush their teeth, grab a snack, and keep themselves busy that I give myself me time again. I don't regret a minute of my lost me time.

Sometimes, you have to give up something to get something else, even for a short time.


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## moogvo

Relationships are built on SHARED experience.

I don't get the double life thing... Having said that... I work from home. I am in the house all day every day. I do see the need to get out sometimes. I generally take a weekend day a couple of times a month and just get out.

Running is a hobby (unless it is part of her paying job) Hobbies are "Me time". She runs as a personal outlet for her enjoyment. If she still sees the need for personal time, then it needs to be taken from her training and running time... Not from children and family time.

Just my .02.


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## lifeistooshort

I have mixed feelings about this; my hb and I are both runners. I've been doing it for 25 years and I most certainly do not consider it a hobby. It's what keeps me sane and functional. Since my hb does it too we don't have that inherent imbalance that you have here. I get the feeling there is some score keeping going on and that is not good for a marriage. Instead of worrying about your wife and her me time, why not negotiate what you need as well? If you feel you don't spend enough time together, bring that up. If you feel you need more personal time, bring that up. If she is currently marathon training, why not cut her slack until the marathon is over? Marriages are seldom equal all the time, you just need a good balance over a long period. What does she say when you tell her you'll need her support for exam studying? My mileage isn't that extensive and I do most of it on my lunch hour, but I have a close friend that likes to marathon and do half ironmans, which is really time consuming. Her hb has a lot more demanding job than her, but he also knows this makes her happy. They negotiate periods when he will pick up all the slack and when that period is over she picks up everything and he gets to do what he wants. They've been happily married for 12 years, 2 kids, and it seems to work well for them. Maybe you could try something like that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris

I think that the fact that she would rather spend social time with friends than with you is a problem.


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## JFalwaysrunning

Alright here is an update...

Friday night we went to a very fancy gala that my work sent me too. The kind with governors and senators. We knew we were going for two months so we had a sitter (her best friend). She went out got a new dress, shoes, all that. We had a great night, left around 10 so we could get back to relieve the sitter. We had talked earlier in the week about how Friday was the night to do the deed. Well we get home, baby's asleep, house didn't burn down, no problems so I figure some chit chat and her friend will leave. NOPE! 2 hours later - past midnight at this point, her friend leaves. This is the same friend she went away with last weekend as part of the group trip for her marathon..not like she hasn't seen her in ages. So because we were both exhausted, the sex was horrible, as expected at that point.

Move on to the next day, she had a work related kids event (she's a teacher) to attend to so we packed up the car and the baby and I went. Had a great day out as a family, was really nice, had lunch at Friendly's. As we're trying to leave, the service was slow and the baby needed a nap so I was anxious to get out so my wife gave her debit card (remember split finances) to the waiter and he brought it back so I grabbed it because she had her hands full with the baby and left the tip and signed the bill. She had asked me just 2 seconds before the waiter came to go to the car and start it to open the windows. But I saw the waiter coming so I didn't go out. So we got to the car and start on our way home, its an hour drive, and she is screaming at me because I didn't listen to her and go start the car. Then she went into a rant about how expensive the night before was (she spent $300 all in for dress, shoes, make up and hair) and we shouldn't have gone out blah blah blah. We're not broke we can afford those things, she knew for two months we were going and she didn't complain one bit ahead of time. Finally she says she thinks we should start sleeping in different rooms.

This destroyed me. I took her out for a really nice night, we had a great family day up until the end of lunch and this is how it ended with an hour long car ride spent arguing. She obviously had a lot to get off her chest. Today she was a lot more calm, kind of like it never happened but I don't really want to talk or look at her. I don't know what is going on in her head right now. Clearly we are not on the same communication level with each other but I am not sure how to get on the same level. What should I do?


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## LoriC

Red Flag..................


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## mule kick

I think there are enough issues to consider marriage counseling. For instance I'm not convinced the lousy sex alone means anything and maybe spending time with her and her friends is actually more important. I know sex is a difficult subject to ignore but the health of your relationship depends on how you spend time together. 

The fight after the decent weekend together sounds ominous, though. Like she is just looking for an excuse to blow it all up and dump the marriage ominous.


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## Tall Average Guy

Fallen Leaf said:


> I gave up me time when my first child was born. Still gave it up when my second child was born. Only now when both kids are old enough to wipe themselves, brush their teeth, grab a snack, and keep themselves busy that I give myself me time again. I don't regret a minute of my lost me time.
> 
> Sometimes, you have to give up something to get something else, even for a short time.


This only works when it is equal (and even then I am not so sure). Giving up "me time" when a spouse has theirs (such as running) and still demanding more is a great recipe for resentment.


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## GTdad

JFalwaysrunning said:


> This destroyed me. I took her out for a really nice night, we had a great family day up until the end of lunch and this is how it ended with an hour long car ride spent arguing. She obviously had a lot to get off her chest. Today she was a lot more calm, kind of like it never happened but I don't really want to talk or look at her. I don't know what is going on in her head right now. Clearly we are not on the same communication level with each other but I am not sure how to get on the same level. What should I do?


Big, big problem. 

At the very least, make sure it's her who moves out of the bedroom, not you.


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## Hicks

Wife, it's clear that you and I have a very different view of what a marriage is. When do you plan on moving out? Do you want help finding an apartment?


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## northernlights

Holy moly, now she wants separate bedrooms? You guys need to start marriage counseling, and if I were you I'd start snooping to see if she's having an affair. 

I hope you guys can work this out! Definitely read No More Mr. Nice Guy and the Married Man's Sex Life Primer, those books seem to help a lot of the men on here.


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## Mavash.

Maybe she's mad because there isn't going to be a second baby like she wanted.


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## GTdad

Hicks said:


> Wife, it's clear that you and I have a very different view of what a marriage is. When do you plan on moving out? Do you want help finding an apartment?


Yep, sounds like it may be time to make it real. "Baby, I'm ready to give you all the 'you' time you could possibly want."


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## JFalwaysrunning

Well its been 4 days since she stated she wanted to sleep in separate rooms and glad to say we are not in separate rooms. Sunday came around and she was normal, like nothing ever happened. By Monday night, after her not mentioning anything or apologizing for her outburst I said we should talk but she said it was too late at night to get into it. Haven't mentioned it since and she acts like it never was said. I realize now I shouldn't let her talk to me that way and should've made that known at the time. Going forward, I need to be more expressive when she says really mean things to me because I think she says them out of anger, but part of me thinks that even if she says things out of anger, they were on her mind to begin with so she does mean them.


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## Hicks

This is not a "talk it out" problem.

This is her tyring to live an indpendent life and resenting you for getting in the way of that.

If you are happy to have a wife not sleeping in another room, and her pretending she has no problems with you, then that's the marriage you will have.


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## Mavash.

Agree with hicks talking rarely works. Boundaries followed by consequences are what work. Anything involving action is better than yet another conversation.

Talking only works when you are both committed to working together.

You don't have that.


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## northernlights

Mavash. said:


> Talking only works when you are both committed to working together.
> 
> You don't have that.


SO, so agree with this.


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## turnera

JFalwaysrunning said:


> she stated she is in a good spot now mentally, physically and socially and she doesn't want to change that right now...meeting up for drinks, game night etc. which I typically stay home with the baby due to lack of a baby sitter. I feel left out


Of course she's in a great spot right now. She gets to live the single life and still brag about her wonderful baby because she has a full-time nanny at home.

Read No More Mr. Nice Guy.


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## turnera

JFalwaysrunning said:


> I don't know what is going on in her head right now. Clearly we are not on the same communication level with each other but I am not sure how to get on the same level. What should I do?


You turned into a beta male and she lost all respect for you. She likes the hot guys who ditch their wives to go running and clubbing all the time, not the beta male who LETS his wife go running and clubbing all the time.

If she hasn't hooked with one of them yet, she's contemplating it. Start checking her computer/phone logs. SOMEone is flirting with her.


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## JFalwaysrunning

Thanks turnera for the advice. I'll check out the book as I think its been suggested a couple times in this thread and other threads I have read. 

I don't think there have been any extra curricular activities going on that I don't know about, at least physical anyway. Its not like she is dressing up really nice to go to work everyday. She's always been a runner, since high school, so the working out is nothing new. I have reviewed her phone - call logs, texts, emails (both personal and work) and have found nothing. Either she is REALLY good at deleting her trail or she is using her new found "me" time to cover up her actions. She doesn't guard her phone like a mama bear so even the texts coming in late at night are nothing unusual - typical stuff from her sisters that I can see as the phone dings. Its possible she has an email set up that I don't know about that isn't linked to her phone, but she never uses our desktop computer so a key logger would be pointless. 

I do agree with you about the fact that someone may be flirting with her or that there is probably some emotional activity between her and somebody else, but the whole running group is a bunch of new people to her so maybe its just the fresh conversations, sharing of unheard stories etc. that changed her attitude recently because the timing of all of this coincides with her joining the running group to train for her recently completed marathon. I actually think she is emotionally attached to her running partner (female bff from high school). Her friend recently found out about some medical issues a family member is going through so my wife has really made a lot of efforts to be there for her friend. Her friend is single and a successful workaholic at a big company so to me it doesn't appear like her friend has a SO to lean on during these obviously difficult times.

Boy, that was a good data dump.


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## turnera

Just remember that women have to respect a man, to be interested in him. When you were dating, you were flirting, chasing, pursuing. Now you just give in to anything she wants (Nice Guy). She sees other men out there who may be flirting, THEY become more attractive than the safe guy back home waiting with the baby. 

You need to start taking charge and taking her away from that crowd - pursuing her, being 'manly' again. You should be going out at least once a week without the baby. You should be doing activities together. Find a babysitter so you can go running with her group; insert yourself back in her life.


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## Hicks

Cheating is not the only concern.

It's dedication to an activity and set of people that you are not a part of. That is the concern.


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## bewilderness

She probably feels smothered. So she runs. Big deal. It probably keeps her from losing her mind as she juggles the needs of her husband, her home, her child, and other people's kids. Sounds like most of her day is devoted to other people. She's starving for time alone. 

Find friends. Develop hobbies. Go for a run. Schedule your own "me" time. Plan a backpacking trip with an old friend. 

You are way too focused on her and she feels like she's under the microscope for everything she does. It is not wrong to want time to herself. It *is* wrong to expect your spouse to be your whole world. 

I guarantee that if you flesh out your own world a bit, she will lighten up. Nothing sexier than a person who is self-actualized. 

And seriously, find a good babysitter or 3.  Make a regular date night. But make a date night with yourself first!! Stop being clingy and dependent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## momtwo4

bewilderness said:


> She probably feels smothered. So she runs. Big deal. It probably keeps her from losing her mind as she juggles the needs of her husband, her home, her child, and other people's kids. Sounds like most of her day is devoted to other people. She's starving for time alone.
> 
> Find friends. Develop hobbies. Go for a run. Schedule your own "me" time. Plan a backpacking trip with an old friend.
> 
> You are way too focused on her and she feels like she's under the microscope for everything she does. It is not wrong to want time to herself. It *is* wrong to expect your spouse to be your whole world.
> 
> I guarantee that if you flesh out your own world a bit, she will lighten up. Nothing sexier than a person who is self-actualized.
> 
> And seriously, find a good babysitter or 3.  Make a regular date night. But make a date night with yourself first!! Stop being clingy and dependent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree:


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## turnera

bewilderness said:


> She probably feels smothered. So she runs. Big deal. It probably keeps her from losing her mind as she juggles the needs of her husband, her home, her child, and other people's kids.


I think this goes a little beyond feeling smothered:



> She has self esteem issues.





> this group is primarily made up of people, both singles and married couples *that have no kids*. They juggle important careers, don't get me wrong, but I think my wife is trying to hang out with a crowd that pre-kids would have been no problem. It goes beyond running too - *meeting up for drinks, game night* etc. which *I typically stay home with the baby* due to lack of a baby sitter. *I feel left out and she doesn't understand that* so do I put my foot down and say this has to stop and mentally/socially she regresses in her accomplishments and *we go back to being in a miserable relationship* or do I let her have her freedom so she can be in a happy state of mind??


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## Bean0909

I think this a huge red flag. I am in the same boat you are. Married for 4 years, we have a two year old son. To me, my fitness is my me time. Every 2 months or so I get a hair cut and that's just extra. I would rather have we time with my husband than me time. 
Seems like she's blowing up tiny things (car windows) and trying to make you seem like an a$$ when it's not appropriate. She wants time alone, and now even a physical separation. I would be concerned about an affair or just the fact that she is shutting down from your marriage in general. Sounds like she's slowly backing out and using silly things to justify your release.


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## thatcleanhippyguy

My advice is to find yourself a hobby and don't be so clingy. Sometimes giving someone space is a good thing. 

For instance, I love playing guitar. Sure, I don't play as much as I used to before I was married, so there is a sacrifice and I am cool with that. But to give up playing guitar entirely for her would kill me and subsequently kill the man she fell in love with.


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## turnera

I'd be fine with that...as long as SHE wasn't out at parties and clubs with her 'running group' a couple times a week.


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## janefw

bewilderness said:


> She probably feels smothered. So she runs. Big deal. It probably keeps her from losing her mind as she juggles the needs of her husband, her home, her child, and other people's kids. Sounds like most of her day is devoted to other people. She's starving for time alone.
> 
> Find friends. Develop hobbies. Go for a run. Schedule your own "me" time. Plan a backpacking trip with an old friend.
> 
> You are way too focused on her and she feels like she's under the microscope for everything she does. It is not wrong to want time to herself. It *is* wrong to expect your spouse to be your whole world.
> 
> I guarantee that if you flesh out your own world a bit, she will lighten up. Nothing sexier than a person who is self-actualized.
> 
> And seriously, find a good babysitter or 3.  Make a regular date night. But make a date night with yourself first!! Stop being clingy and dependent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ITA with this. Nobody wants a clingy guy who whines because his wife is - shock, horror - going out for a run. OMW.


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## turnera

It's not the running he objected to, guys. It was the parties and the clubs - while she left HIM at home to babysit.


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## bewilderness

turnera said:


> It's not the running he objected to, guys. It was the parties and the clubs - while she left HIM at home to babysit.


I sense clinginess. I don't blame her for wanting space. He's not doing anything to indicate that he is fine without her. Hubby needs to work less and play more. And stop blaming the friends. 

And when mothers stay home, it is called mothering. When fathers stay home, it is babysitting? Nope. He's not babysitting his own child. He's parenting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## janefw

bewilderness said:


> I sense clinginess. I don't blame her for wanting space. He's not doing anything to indicate that he is fine without her. Hubby needs to work less and play more. And stop blaming the friends.
> 
> And when mothers stay home, it is called mothering. When fathers stay home, it is babysitting? Nope. He's not babysitting his own child. He's parenting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I noticed that too. People telling him he's going over and above. LOL. No. It's his kid too. It's called _parenting_. I agree that he needs to get some friends and get out more.


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## janefw

OP, why don't you make an agreement with your wife that you each have one night that you go out separately, and one night that you go out as a couple? It would help you to reconnect as a couple, but also get your "me" time. If you don't have friends, start cultivating them. You can't rely on your spouse for _all _of your needs for friendship and companionship. Most of all - quit the martyr act. It's very unattractive.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Both my husband and I raced in runs, triathlons and he does ironmans and half ironmans on top of his full time job. My husband goes to the gym a minimum 3xs a week which is 30 miles away from our home or he'll exercise at home. He very rarely takes a day off. 

I no longer can run since I damaged my neck permanently, but I support my husband fully in his ironman training and I respect his "me" time also.

He also supports me and gives me all the time I need to myself. We've always been so supportive of each other, especially when it comes to health and space. 

We do make time for each other too. It wasn't always time to spend time together when the children were young. 

I'm jealous of your wife, I'd give anything to run again. I used to run 36 miles every week, plus bike and swim. 

Good luck working this out.


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## turnera

janefw said:


> I noticed that too. People telling him he's going over and above. LOL. No. It's his kid too. It's called _parenting_. I agree that he needs to get some friends and get out more.


 I agree, too, but that wasn't the point of the post; it was that he complained and she told him to buzz off. 

If anything, I hope he reads some Nice Guy books and learns how to take back his life.


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## Shaggy

Folks, his wife isn't just wanting a little time to go run and clear her head.

She's blowing him off and engaging in an extensive social life that she is deliberately excluding him from.

She is isolating herself from the child and her husband and seeking a lifestyle involving a group of singles.

This isn't ME time for her, it's very much about not including her husband because he cramps her freedom.

I have a basic rule about spouses, they are always included implicitly in all social invitations, doubly so if its drinking and partying and clubbing . She's violating this by explicitly excluding him from such situations.


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## turnera

THANK you for saying it so much better. 

They both need some education in what constitutes a healthy, happy marriage and to decide if they are going to pursue that.


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## turnera

ME time for a married woman with a child would be more like running with her gf, taking a class at the local college, starting a hobby like painting or photography, going shopping, an occasional massage...not hanging out with a bunch of single men and women.


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## F-102

bewilderness said:


> I sense clinginess. I don't blame her for wanting space. He's not doing anything to indicate that he is fine without her. Hubby needs to work less and play more. And stop blaming the friends.
> 
> And when mothers stay home, it is called mothering. When fathers stay home, it is babysitting? Nope. He's not babysitting his own child. He's parenting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You sense clinginess. I sense a WAW who has suddenly been introduced to a whole new life beyond her H and family.

I sense a WAW who wants to be "open for business" with the male friends she now knows.

I sense a WAW who wants to be a single party girl again.


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## janefw

But it's not for anyone else to dictate to his wife what to do with her "me" time. Why does she have to take up a hobby when she already has one? (Running) Not all women want to go shopping and get massages or paint. I would run a million miles away from such things for my "time off". True, I wouldn't go clubbing either, but everyone is different.


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## turnera

Do you think it acceptable for a married woman with a child to go out with single friends to a club AND a party every week? Does the husband not have the right to say 'I find this unacceptable for our marriage'? I guarantee if HE were going to a club every week, SHE would be having a problem.


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## janefw

turnera said:


> Do you think it acceptable for a married woman with a child to go out with single friends *to a club AND a party every week*? Does the husband not have the right to say 'I find this unacceptable for our marriage'? I guarantee if HE were going to a club every week, SHE would be having a problem.


Where does it say that she goes to a club and a party every week? All i saw was:

"It goes beyond running too - meeting up for drinks, game night etc."

I checked all of his posts and didn't see it mentinoed that it was every week that she was "partying" and "clubbing."

Also saw that: "she does run with one of her best friends (female) and a couple of other people that I have met and hung out with and *most are married*." So, not "single friends", ha, but that later became "this group is primarily made up of people, both singles and married couples that have no kids." I wonder why we moved from married people to singles? Maybe to make the wife look worse? Hmmm.

IMO, it's fine to want me time. Maybe some people want to spend every moment with kids and husband, but there is nothing wrong with a spouse who doesn't feel that way. Maybe this should have been discussed before marriage. 

It sounds to me like a clingy, jealous husband at work.


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## turnera

JFalwaysrunning said:


> The second reason however, I was upset with her about. Basically, she stated she is in a good spot now mentally, physically and socially and she doesn't want to change that right now. She does have a lot of self-esteem issues so for her to admit that is huge. I was upset because *we already had a tough couple of months while she was putting in all this training (no time with each other, no sex, no communication*), to keep up that up all summer is something I would not really look forward to, so *we agreed to reduce her training time in half so it wouldn't pull her away from me and the family as much*.
> 
> this group is primarily made up of *people, both singles and married couples that have no kids*. They juggle important careers, don't get me wrong, but *I think my wife is trying to hang out with a crowd* that pre-kids would have been no problem. It goes beyond running too - *meeting up for drinks, game night etc. which I typically stay home with the baby* due to lack of a baby sitter. *I feel left out and she doesn't understand that*


Basically, she has finally found the life she pined for due to her self esteem issues, she's included and part of the 'popular crowd' for lack of a better term, and she didn't want to give it up. And didn't, until he complained enough. And even then, she only gave up HALF of the time she spends with this new crowd.

I get it, I really do. I had NO me time early on and it bred resentment. And if I suddenly became popular, I'd want to keep it, too.

But she is married. Marriage comes first. She's getting to spend a LOT of time doing what makes her happy while her husband (though it's his own fault) has no group of friends to hang out with like she does; there is no balance. He works, comes home and does chores, and cares for the baby, and goes to sleep. The only time he's asking for is to study to improve his job.

So I get wanting time off; but it's a marriage and she owes it to him to make it fair and equitable.


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## janefw

It's not HER fault that her husband doesn't have any friends! Geez. He needs to get off his behind and go find a group of friends to hang out with. Husbands and wives aren't supposed to spend every waking moment together, and to be 'everything' to each other. That's very unhealthy. 

It also shouldn't be forgotten that he has time to sleep in which she "gives" to him. Why doesn't he instead get up early and study? I also work full time and study and have _three _kids. Somehow I also manage to have a life, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to have a life that's quite separate to your loved one/s. Anyone who thinks that a mom should _only _be a mom is nuts. 

Like I said earlier, he needs to find those friends, establish his own night out and have a couple night out too. If they both want to run, they should make that work. He needs to stop whining so darn much.


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## turnera

He sleeps in on weekends. The rest of the week he works far more hours than her.


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## janefw

IDC how many hours either of them work. It never works out one for one. If he wants his own me time, he needs to go and get it and stop whining about it.


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## momtwo4

janefw said:


> It's not HER fault that her husband doesn't have any friends! Geez. He needs to get off his behind and go find a group of friends to hang out with. Husbands and wives aren't supposed to spend every waking moment together, and to be 'everything' to each other. That's very unhealthy.
> 
> It also shouldn't be forgotten that he has time to sleep in which she "gives" to him. Why doesn't he instead get up early and study? I also work full time and study and have _three _kids. Somehow I also manage to have a life, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to have a life that's quite separate to your loved one/s. Anyone who thinks that a mom should _only _be a mom is nuts.
> 
> Like I said earlier, he needs to find those friends, establish his own night out and have a couple night out too. If they both want to run, they should make that work. He needs to stop whining so darn much.


I agree. I'm a mom to four, and I value my family relationship, but I also need "me" time. I'm also training for a marathon, and I'd go crazy without my running time. I totally support my husband's "me" time too. Recently he went on a weekend backpacking trip with his guy friends. I was happy for him. He needed some time away. 

There is not much worse than a clingy, needy spouse who tries to control what the other person does. We both need our space sometimes, and he understands that.


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## justonelife

Maybe a little perspective would be helpful.

JF - How much time does your W spend with her running buddies? 

I agree that there are some definite red flags going on. The W should get some "me" time but this needs to be balanced. I think you should sit down and schedule her "me" time and an equal amount for you, along with date nights. If this is still a problem, then you should investigate why she needs so much "me" time with her friends. 

Everyone needs and deserves some down time to spend alone or with friends but people also have to be realistic about their lifestyle. Married with kids is NOT the same as single and childless. The amount of time you can expect to spend on hobbies is going to change significantly.


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## JFalwaysrunning

Thank you everyone for all your posts.

To clarify - she is definitely *not* going out clubbing and partying. At most going to happy hours with said group of friends. And regarding the running, I want her to have time for running, but training for a marathon, which she was doing this spring, had her out one of the weekend days doing a 2-3 hour run then coming home and having to keep to the couch because of the pain. If it was a half hour run every day or every other day, not a problem. Plus, she got to go away for a weekend with said running group to run the marathon. 

I understand the need to have separate social circles. That is something I have been lacking in my life and need to work on. If anything it will balance out this "ledger" we both seem to be keeping on each other. I also want us to have a good social life as a couple. Obviously with a child, those opportunities are limited. I think we need to work on and we are working on it, is to schedule date nights but also social gatherings as a couple.


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## SadSamIAm

There is no doubt that people need time to themselves. But family needs to come first.

I love to golf. It takes 4 or 5 hours to play. When my children were small, I was only able to golf maybe 3 or 4 times a summer. A couple of those times were work related. These are the sacrifices one has to make in order to have a spouse and children. My wife likes to work out, but she had little time for that when the children were young.

Now that my kids are older (youngest 16), I am golfing more (3 or 4 times a week) . My wife is now working out most days of the week.

I agree with the OP. Having a run for 45 minutes every couple of days is reasonable. Training hours on end for a marathon and then going away for weekends for races is asking a bit much. 

If they each spent this much time 'on their own things', plus the time the child requires, means no time for the marriage. Recipe for disaster.


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## justonelife

SadSamIAm said:


> There is no doubt that people need time to themselves. But family needs to come first.
> 
> I love to golf. It takes 4 or 5 hours to play. When my children were small, I was only able to golf maybe 3 or 4 times a summer. A couple of those times were work related. These are the sacrifices one has to make in order to have a spouse and children. My wife likes to work out, but she had little time for that when the children were young.
> 
> Now that my kids are older (youngest 16), I am golfing more (3 or 4 times a week) . My wife is now working out most days of the week.
> 
> I agree with the OP. Having a run for 45 minutes every couple of days is reasonable. Training hours on end for a marathon and then going away for weekends for races is asking a bit much.
> 
> If they each spent this much time 'on their own things', plus the time the child requires, means no time for the marriage. Recipe for disaster.


I agree with you somewhat but I heard the OP say that she spent 2-3 hours once a week and then ONE weekend away for the actual marathon. It doesn't seem overly unreasonable to me. It sounds like maybe the larger issue is the OP doesn't have a similar outlet for some social time.

OP - I think you guys should try to focus on some social activities that you can do together and/or as a family. Then you will both get some social time with friends and not keep score against each other.


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## SadSamIAm

justonelife said:


> I agree with you somewhat but I heard the OP say that she spent 2-3 hours once a week and then ONE weekend away for the actual marathon. It doesn't seem overly unreasonable to me. It sounds like maybe the larger issue is the OP doesn't have a similar outlet for some social time.
> 
> OP - I think you guys should try to focus on some social activities that you can do together and/or as a family. Then you will both get some social time with friends and not keep score against each other.


Training for a marathon is major. You can't run for 2 or 3 hours one day and then run a marathon the next weekend. 

My guess is that most people that run marathons are either young (no children yet) or older (children are mostly grown) or divorced (due to priority on training vs marriage/family) or wealthy (pay someone to watch children while they train and don't have to work for a living). I am sure there are a few people that have small children who are able to balance training, work and family, but it would be very difficult.


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## justonelife

SadSamIAm said:


> Training for a marathon is major. You can't run for 2 or 3 hours one day and then run a marathon the next weekend.
> 
> My guess is that most people that run marathons are either young (no children yet) or older (children are mostly grown) or divorced (due to priority on training vs marriage/family) or wealthy (pay someone to watch children while they train and don't have to work for a living). I am sure there are a few people that have small children who are able to balance training, work and family, but it would be very difficult.


I understand that but I was just basing on OP's words. I didn't say she ran once and then a marathon. I said she ran once PER WEEK and then the marathon. Again, this is based on OP's description. A hobby that takes 2-3 hours once a week doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.


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## Hicks

This is too big of an activity physically, socially, timewise, and mentally for a mother and a wife to be involved with.


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## justonelife

Would you say the same thing if a woman was here complaining about a man spending 2-3 hours a week training for a marathon?


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## turnera

I may be mistaken, but I got the sense that it wasn't 2-3 hours. In fact, he asked her to cut down the training in HALF, so I'm guessing it was more like 10-20 hours a week. Marathon runners, IME, typically run an average of 2-3 hours a DAY to prepare for a marathon. They start out at 2 or 3 miles, then ramp up to 5 or 6, then 10, then 15...


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## justonelife

JFalwaysrunning said:


> I want her to have time for running, but training for a marathon, which she was doing this spring, had her out one of the weekend days doing a 2-3 hour run


Everyone seems to be assuming that this was taking a ton of time away but I specifically asked the OP how much time this was taking and this was his response. I'm just basing this on his response, not personal assumptions made by others.


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## JFalwaysrunning

justonelife said:


> I understand that but I was just basing on OP's words. I didn't say she ran once and then a marathon. I said she ran once PER WEEK and then the marathon. Again, this is based on OP's description. A hobby that takes 2-3 hours once a week doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.


justonelife - to clarify from my previous post, one of the weekend days was spent doing a 2-3 hour run. Training allowed for one day off, and the remaining 5 days of the week (basically M-F) her runs were done in the morning before work. In total probably would run close to 50 miles a week. The issue I was having was that I was considering her training to be her alone time, I obviously was with the baby, so it bothered me that even after she was using time to train, she still wanted to allocate some time every night before the baby went to sleep or on the weekend to herself. Where on the other hand, because I stay up later then they do, I consider that to be my alone time. I don't tell my wife when she has to go to bed, she chose to go bed around 9pm every night. 

With that said, now with the marathon over, we are working on better time management both individually and as a couple, although there have been times when she has her own social agenda. Like others have recommended, I need to work that into our schedule for my self as well.


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## justonelife

JF - I agree that it is a bit too much for your wife to ask for marathon training AND additional alone time. I was just trying to address some of the other posters that basically said it is totally ridiculous for your wife to even have that time or to have such a hobby. I don't think it's that unusual but I agree that you should have time for yourself as well and I got a bit annoyed with other posters making assumptions about her marathon training time.


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## alte Dame

For all of the years that our children were young, my H declared for himself the sort of ME time that the OP is describing his W declares for herself. If I managed to scrape myself off the wall after my extra-full day of parenting and working at my career & wanted him to accommodate me even a little such that his ME time was curtailed, he inevitably said: "These are things I love and I don't see why marriage and family has to mean that I give them up."

This shut me up for literally decades until I realized the following:

We lived such stressful daily lives trying to juggle everything that his MANY hours of me time meant (1) much more work for me at home, and (2) that we had almost no quality time together as a couple; as soon as there was a minute to breathe, he was off skiing, fishing, biking, or hiking. If you added this to the constant work travel and long work days, we had almost no time together.

I finally made the point that I didn't think he really enjoyed my company, so why were we married? What did he see in me? Every time he got a spare minute, he was out the door.

When I expressed my problem as a quality time issue, he finally got it.

You see, I wasn't trying to stop him from having his life away from me. I just wanted some life with him other than chief cook, bottle-washer, nanny, resident career lady & the woman he turned to for sex late at night.


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## happyman64

JF

There is a thread on TAM that could be the mirror Mage of yours though your wife is a little younger.

I will find it and forward the link to you as you will find it very helpful.

HM64


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## happyman64

JF

Read Marduks thread. You will find it enlightening.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/15068-wife-suddenly-goes-out-all-time-am-i-being-jerk.html

HM64


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## Fallen Leaf

Tall Average Guy said:


> This only works when it is equal (and even then I am not so sure). Giving up "me time" when a spouse has theirs (such as running) and still demanding more is a great recipe for resentment.


This is about his wife getting "me time" + running time + let-me-live-a-single-life-time, without considering her husband's feelings/thoughts, right? 

Actually, things are not "equal" in my household. Sometimes husband does a lot more and sometimes I do. It just depends on the situation. I don't believe in equal duties or me time all the time. If I can see that husband is frustrated or overworked or stressed, I remind him to take a break and go spend time with his buddies. If I am in those situations then I let husband know I need a little more me time or time with friends. He's not good with this kind of stuff. I'm better at seeing the stress and knowing when to slow down.


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## Fallen Leaf

JF, running is a hobby. I think people think of hobby as something like crafting or photography but running is a hobby. My husband runs too. He runs every other day. He hikes fourteeners, he wants to rank top 20 in a 10K (and better), he wants to do a triathlon, he wants to challenge himself in the Tough Mudder...on and on. It's his hobby and I support him. I think it's great + it gets him outside of the house, keeps him fit, and less stressed. Sometimes, I hike with him and run/bike with him but most the time he does it on his own with friends. It makes me happy to see him active and with friends because I like seeing him happy and all that makes him happy. This of course means I spend more time with our kids. In fact, I spend almost 24hours with our kids. I'm a SAHM so yep...pretty much everything I do, they come with me. Of course, husband and I spend a lot of time together too...not as much as we'd like but enough for both of use to be happy...we could always be happier but that will come in it's own time.

Just like I support him in his hobby, he supports me in mine: graphic design, photography, crafting, my blogs, etc. He also supports me in getting fit and healthy again but even when I was overweight, he never said anything negative. He allowed me to decide when I was ready to get fit, and when I started getting fit, he was happy for me.

As for your wife, when I put myself in her place, I'll be honest, she doesn't like something about you. Actually, she doesn't like a lot of things about herself but she's using you as the problem. You might want to step aside and let her have her way. Let her spend time with her friends as much as she wants. Give her all the me time she demands. Let her spend money on whatever she wants (on a budget of course). When she wants to do stuff with you, let her know you're busy, unless it's something you want to do too...not something she wants to do and you want to do because she wants you to...no. Don't wait on hands and knees for her. Let her know you have a life too. She's treating you like a loser and you're falling for it. 

If that's too hard to do then yes, check out counseling. I think you should speak up to her too. You sound like you're afraid to hurt her feelings or afraid that she'll put you down so hard you won't know what to say back to her. That's pretty sad.


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## Hicks

justonelife said:


> Would you say the same thing if a woman was here complaining about a man spending 2-3 hours a week training for a marathon?


Based on the totality of what has been posted, this is a marriage harming pursuit. And it would be if a man was doing it.

You can't train for 2-3 hours a week to run a marathon. 
The amount of her personal time and energy that go into this actiivty, instead of her marriage and her family, is very harmful to her marriage.

I wonder if men even ever ask for "Me Time" ?


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## justonelife

Hicks said:


> I wonder if men even ever ask for "Me Time" ?


I think men traditionally just expect and take time for their own hobbies. They don't "ask" for time, they just take it. Women are trained to feel guilty and feel like they need to ask and get approval before spending time on themselves.

It sounds like the opposite is true in this particular case however.


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## Hicks

Who trains them?


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## turnera

Society.


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## Tall Average Guy

Fallen Leaf said:


> As for your wife, when I put myself in her place, I'll be honest, she doesn't like something about you. Actually, she doesn't like a lot of things about herself but she's using you as the problem. You might want to step aside and let her have her way. Let her spend time with her friends as much as she wants. Give her all the me time she demands. Let her spend money on whatever she wants (on a budget of course). When she wants to do stuff with you, let her know you're busy, unless it's something you want to do too...not something she wants to do and you want to do because she wants you to...no. Don't wait on hands and knees for her. Let her know you have a life too. She's treating you like a loser and you're falling for it.
> 
> If that's too hard to do then yes, check out counseling. I think you should speak up to her too. You sound like you're afraid to hurt her feelings or afraid that she'll put you down so hard you won't know what to say back to her. That's pretty sad.


If the OP does this, I think he needs to do it loudly. None of the passive aggressive silent crap. By that I mean tell her flat out that they need to sit down and schedule their individual "me times." Make it clear that since she does not want to do things with him, he is going to have fun too, and that they need to figure out who is taking care of the kids while the other is doing their thing.

If she asks to come along, ask her why she wants to do that? Note that her actions make clear that she does not like to be around him, so why now? Then let her talk. When she is done, he should tell her he will think about it. Then consider what she said and her reasoning. I bet he will learn a thing or two.


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## Tall Average Guy

Fallen Leaf said:


> This is about his wife getting "me time" + running time + let-me-live-a-single-life-time, without considering her husband's feelings/thoughts, right?


Yes. 



> Actually, things are not "equal" in my household. Sometimes husband does a lot more and sometimes I do. It just depends on the situation. I don't believe in equal duties or me time all the time. If I can see that husband is frustrated or overworked or stressed, I remind him to take a break and go spend time with his buddies. If I am in those situations then I let husband know I need a little more me time or time with friends. He's not good with this kind of stuff. I'm better at seeing the stress and knowing when to slow down.


While they may not be equal at any given time, they should approach equal over the long term. If they don't, you get resentment, where one spouse is always giving, and the others is always taking.


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## Fallen Leaf

Tall Average Guy said:


> If the OP does this, I think he needs to do it loudly. None of the passive aggressive silent crap. By that I mean tell her flat out that they need to sit down and schedule their individual "me times." Make it clear that since she does not want to do things with him, he is going to have fun too, and that they need to figure out who is taking care of the kids while the other is doing their thing.
> 
> If she asks to come along, ask her why she wants to do that? Note that her actions make clear that she does not like to be around him, so why now? Then let her talk. When she is done, he should tell her he will think about it. Then consider what she said and her reasoning. I bet he will learn a thing or two.


Agree. No passive aggressiveness. But, he doesn't have to have a sit-down talk with her. She'll probably have the last say and it's going to be her way because he won't be able to stand up to her. He's just her doormat and she'll keep wiping sh*t on him. He shouldn't have to have a sit-down talk. Just be firm in what he wants to do. If he wants to go for a run by himself, then he can say, "Tomorrow before work, I'm going to go for a short run." or say it right after work. If she has a fit, then say, "Let me have my run. We can talk when I get back," then go quickly. My husband tells me all the time when he's going for a run. I just say, "Okay, be careful and call me if you need me." 

I say, if she asks to come along say, "Sure! Let's go!" and be happy about it. It's better to run with your spouse than with your friends. Don't try to be like, "No, you run on your time with your friends and I'll run on my time with my friends." The point isn't to separate. It's also not the time to have long conversations or piss her off even more.


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## Fallen Leaf

Tall Average Guy said:


> Yes.


Okay then. Not sure why you had to say something about it.




> While they may not be equal at any given time, they should approach equal over the long term. If they don't, you get resentment, where one spouse is always giving, and the others is always taking.


What exactly do you mean by equal? I guess that's really the question here.


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## Tall Average Guy

Fallen Leaf said:


> Agree. No passive aggressiveness. But, he doesn't have to have a sit-down talk with her. She'll probably have the last say and it's going to be her way because he won't be able to stand up to her. He's just her doormat and she'll keep wiping sh*t on him. He shouldn't have to have a sit-down talk. Just be firm in what he wants to do. If he wants to go for a run by himself, then he can say, "Tomorrow before work, I'm going to go for a short run." or say it right after work. If she has a fit, then say, "Let me have my run. We can talk when I get back," then go quickly. My husband tells me all the time when he's going for a run. I just say, "Okay, be careful and call me if you need me."


I don't mean discuss the issue of why she does not want to be around him. I mean sit down to divide up which days he will look after the kids, which days she will and who is in charge of finding a sitter when they both want to go out. The OP suggests that he is left looking after the kids while she gets all her running time, her haning out with her running friends time, their happy hour time and her me time. So I can very easily see a situation where he tells her what he is doing, and she says she already has something planned, so he can't. My point is that he tackle that head on and make clear that he won't be the default child care provider.



> I say, if she asks to come along say, "Sure! Let's go!" and be happy about it. It's better to run with your spouse than with your friends. Don't try to be like, "No, you run on your time with your friends and I'll run on my time with my friends." The point isn't to separate. It's also not the time to have long conversations or piss her off even more.


Except I never suggested the latter approach. My goal would be to find out why she wants to be separate from him in her activities. That is why I was very specific in my suggested language. This points out to her what he is feeling without it being whining. It allows her to explain why she has kept things separate up until now and why she wants to join him now. It also allows him to consider the information he gets.

As far as worrying about pissing her off more, that seems like coddling her. She is an adult and can speak her mind. Unfortunately, she does not appear to be doing that, and instead is creating a separation between the two of them. If she does not like that being raised, perhaps she should not do it.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Fallen Leaf said:


> What exactly do you mean by equal? I guess that's really the question here.


Equal is certainly in the eye of the beholder. And I don't disagree that it is never truly equal. But it is the goal to work toward. Because is you sit back on the idea that it can never be equal so why bother, I think you set yourself up for resentment.


----------



## JFalwaysrunning

happyman64 said:


> JF
> 
> Read Marduks thread. You will find it enlightening.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/15068-wife-suddenly-goes-out-all-time-am-i-being-jerk.html
> 
> HM64


Thanks HM64, I went through that thread and it was helpful. I can see the similarities where we are/were both doormats. I need to stop letting that happen to me. I think one of the reasons why I let myself be the doormat is that I am not confrontational with my wife. It goes back to when my parents were getting divorced and I could hear them arguing, nothing physically abusive, but everything was an argument. I have a fear of that happening in my relationship so I tend to avoid arguments even if something bothers me and just let it go and let everything return to calm in a few hours. 



Fallen Leaf said:


> JF, running is a hobby. I think people think of hobby as something like crafting or photography but running is a hobby. My husband runs too. He runs every other day. He hikes fourteeners, he wants to rank top 20 in a 10K (and better), he wants to do a triathlon, he wants to challenge himself in the Tough Mudder...on and on. It's his hobby and I support him. I think it's great + it gets him outside of the house, keeps him fit, and less stressed. Sometimes, I hike with him and run/bike with him but most the time he does it on his own with friends. It makes me happy to see him active and with friends because I like seeing him happy and all that makes him happy. This of course means I spend more time with our kids. In fact, I spend almost 24hours with our kids. I'm a SAHM so yep...pretty much everything I do, they come with me. Of course, husband and I spend a lot of time together too...not as much as we'd like but enough for both of use to be happy...we could always be happier but that will come in it's own time.
> 
> Just like I support him in his hobby, he supports me in mine: graphic design, photography, crafting, my blogs, etc. He also supports me in getting fit and healthy again but even when I was overweight, he never said anything negative. He allowed me to decide when I was ready to get fit, and when I started getting fit, he was happy for me.
> 
> As for your wife, when I put myself in her place, I'll be honest, she doesn't like something about you. Actually, she doesn't like a lot of things about herself but she's using you as the problem. You might want to step aside and let her have her way. Let her spend time with her friends as much as she wants. Give her all the me time she demands. Let her spend money on whatever she wants (on a budget of course). When she wants to do stuff with you, let her know you're busy, unless it's something you want to do too...not something she wants to do and you want to do because she wants you to...no. Don't wait on hands and knees for her. Let her know you have a life too. She's treating you like a loser and you're falling for it.
> 
> If that's too hard to do then yes, check out counseling. I think you should speak up to her too. You sound like you're afraid to hurt her feelings or afraid that she'll put you down so hard you won't know what to say back to her. That's pretty sad.


Great points Fallen Leaf. My wife has always been a runner and I know how much running contributes to her well being, spiritually and physically, so I want her to have that. Its just that on top of the going out with her friends was pushing me out of my comfort zone so to speak. I do not do a good job of balancing my needs. When I have tried to do that with her, it always ends up with her saying "You always get to do what you want do" so then I feel bad. Trust me its not like I'm saying I'm going to a strip club or Vegas with the guys for a couple of days. I don't have that group of guys to go watch the game with or do guy things. We have couples friends that we hang out with occasionally but the one thing I have not done a good job at is keeping up to date with my friends. 

I try to do things on my own but often work and other household responsibilities get in the way. It's odd, I was never a loaner growing up. Not the life of the party, but definitely one to get a call about a party on a Saturday night. Now that is gone. I've gone through some topics about "husband has no friends" on this site but haven't really related to those topics. While this does create an unbalance in our separate social lives, I don't think it can ever really be 50/50. Right now its 90/10 in favor of her.


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## tom67

Right now its 90/10 in favor of her.[/QUOTE] Time to change things then right? You can't control her however you CAN control what you will or will not put up with. Marriage is a partnership no disrespect but find those cajones.


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## turnera

JFalwaysrunning said:


> everything was an argument. I have a fear of that happening in my relationship so I tend to avoid arguments even if something bothers me and just let it go and let everything return to calm in a few hours.


YOU are in control of whether something becomes an argument, JF. It's not an argument if BOTH of you aren't arguing. If she tries to escalate INTO an argument to gain/regain control, don't let her. Be smarter. "I'm not ok with this conversation." _And walk away_. Or hang up on her.

Go back to her the next day and bring up the subject again, politely and FIRMLY. 

What books have you read so far?


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## turnera

JFalwaysrunning said:


> ends up with her saying "You always get to do what you want do" so then I feel bad.


As I said, BE SMARTER THAN HER. Go buy a posterboard and draw up a week, by hours. Color code the whole week, you in your 'what you want to do' time in blue, hers in red. Show her the truth. And then walk away until she's ready to discuss it logically.


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## turnera

JFalwaysrunning said:


> While this does create an unbalance in our separate social lives, I don't think it can ever really be 50/50. Right now its 90/10 in favor of her.


Easy to fix. Call one old friend every week, until you are back in contact with them. Keep their numbers. Then start inviting one a month to go hang out with you, to get you comfortable with 'taking' your 'me' time.

And start learning how to say 'I'm going out. Take care of the baby.'


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## Tall Average Guy

JFalwaysrunning said:


> I try to do things on my own but often work and other household responsibilities get in the way.


Notice how she does not have that problem? So why should you? Do what Tunera suggests and dived up the week to make sure that you get your free time. 

One benefit to mapping it out is that it shows very clearly how much time she is taking, and how you just want something close to equal. When you color in the calendar her 12 hours a week of running and time with friends, it becomes more difficult for her to argue that you wanting 10 hours a week for your things is unreasonable. I suspect that she will still argue that, but you have an easy reply that you just want "me' time like she gets.


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## turnera

Yeah, the poster is to SHOW her how much of the week she is taking for herself while you take almost NOTHING for yourself. Once you show her that in black and white (red and blue), you can refuse to discuss THAT aspect of her argument any more.

Once that's done, THEN you sit down and make a new map of a more reasonable allotment of time for both of you.


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## Fallen Leaf

Tall Average Guy said:


> I don't mean discuss the issue of why she does not want to be around him. I mean sit down to divide up which days he will look after the kids, which days she will and who is in charge of finding a sitter when they both want to go out. The OP suggests that he is left looking after the kids while she gets all her running time, her haning out with her running friends time, their happy hour time and her me time. So I can very easily see a situation where he tells her what he is doing, and she says she already has something planned, so he can't. My point is that he tackle that head on and make clear that he won't be the default child care provider.


Right, but my point was to not do this conversation thing as he's getting ready to head out to run or hang out with a buddy. So, of course, have the conversation beforehand, like the day before or the week before. As mentioned by turnera (and you see it the same way), put a visual schedule together. Based on what I read before from JF, it sounded as though he's tried the conversation thing and they've turned into "arguments." Thus, I was trying to find a way around that since he's not going to get his way anyway in a conversation so he might as well just go when he see's his wife sitting at the couch, feeding the baby, or whatever. That would be the perfect time for him to escape. When he returns they can talk. I know he's not brave enough to chance that so I don't even know why that's even a consideration. 



> Except I never suggested the latter approach. *My goal would be to find out why she wants to be separate from him in her activities*. That is why I was very specific in my suggested language. This points out to her what he is feeling without it being whining. It allows her to explain why she has kept things separate up until now and why she wants to join him now. It also allows him to consider the information he gets.


I thought JF made it clear? She wants her "me time," time with girlfriends, and time for running with her running mates, and doesn't need him to be a part of that. JF pretty much gave her her space and too much of it (in my eyes) and now he can't seem to reel her back.



> As far as worrying about pissing her off more, that seems like coddling her. She is an adult and can speak her mind. Unfortunately, she does not appear to be doing that, and instead is creating a separation between the two of them. If she does not like that being raised, perhaps she should not do it.


She is not an adult. ARE YOU KIDDING? She's a teenager. Her age might be an adult but her actions are definitely something a teenager would do. I can see my daughter acting just like that...of course it would be okay for my daughter to be that way because that's what teenagers are supposed to do, not an adult. But, chores must be done, bedroom cleaned, homework done, etc. before fun. I may allow a slip here and there because I'm not the strictest of moms but you get my point. 

If JF had a teenage daughter, how would he respond to her if she wanted all her me time, friend time, and running time and didn't do chores around the house or find a part-time job??? Don't tell me he'd ground her or put her in time-out.


----------



## Fallen Leaf

Tall Average Guy said:


> Equal is certainly in the eye of the beholder. And I don't disagree that it is never truly equal. But it is the goal to work toward. Because is you sit back on the idea that it can never be equal so why bother, I think you set yourself up for resentment.


I guess you do have a point here. If JF is having this much difficulty getting his fun time then they really should divide fun time equally until they can stop being kids about it.


----------



## Fallen Leaf

JFalwaysrunning said:


> Great points Fallen Leaf. My wife has always been a runner and I know how much running contributes to her well being, spiritually and physically, so I want her to have that. Its just that on top of the going out with her friends was pushing me out of my comfort zone so to speak. I do not do a good job of balancing my needs. When I have tried to do that with her, it always ends up with her saying "You always get to do what you want do" so then I feel bad. Trust me its not like I'm saying I'm going to a strip club or Vegas with the guys for a couple of days. I don't have that group of guys to go watch the game with or do guy things. We have couples friends that we hang out with occasionally but the one thing I have not done a good job at is keeping up to date with my friends.
> 
> I try to do things on my own but often work and other household responsibilities get in the way. It's odd, I was never a loaner growing up. Not the life of the party, but definitely one to get a call about a party on a Saturday night. Now that is gone. I've gone through some topics about "husband has no friends" on this site but haven't really related to those topics. While this does create an unbalance in our separate social lives, I don't think it can ever really be 50/50. Right now its 90/10 in favor of her.


Do you think you can ask her, "If you spend all this time away from me, do you think our marriage could suffer? I mean, what if we begin to drift apart? I don't want that to happen. I want us to spend more time together, just you and I. Our friends and hobbies shouldn't be more important than we are to each other. What do you think?"

This is something I could say to my husband if he were ever to start acting strange. I would remind him of us and why we are married and have our kids. He would do exactly the same thing for me. It would stop me in my tracks and I would totally see that he's suffering. I'd never want that for my husband. If you say those words and your wife just continues arguing with you or doesn't believe you or whatever, then you should seek counseling.

If this to you is just about getting your fair share of fun time then I'm not sure what else to say. That would be the least of my worries.


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## Tall Average Guy

Fallen Leaf said:


> Right, but my point was to not do this conversation thing as he's getting ready to head out to run or hang out with a buddy. So, of course, have the conversation beforehand, like the day before or the week before. As mentioned by turnera (and you see it the same way), put a visual schedule together. Based on what I read before from JF, it sounded as though he's tried the conversation thing and they've turned into "arguments." Thus, I was trying to find a way around that since he's not going to get his way anyway in a conversation so he might as well just go when he see's his wife sitting at the couch, feeding the baby, or whatever. That would be the perfect time for him to escape. When he returns they can talk. I know he's not brave enough to chance that so I don't even know why that's even a consideration.


I think we used different words to get to the same place.



> I thought JF made it clear? She wants her "me time," time with girlfriends, and time for running with her running mates, and doesn't need him to be a part of that. JF pretty much gave her her space and too much of it (in my eyes) and now he can't seem to reel her back.


I suspect there is more here. She has told him she wants her me time. That translates into her wanting to do things with others. What I want to find out is why she does not want to do things with him. 



> She is not an adult. ARE YOU KIDDING? She's a teenager. Her age might be an adult but her actions are definitely something a teenager would do. I can see my daughter acting just like that...of course it would be okay for my daughter to be that way because that's what teenagers are supposed to do, not an adult. But, chores must be done, bedroom cleaned, homework done, etc. before fun. I may allow a slip here and there because I'm not the strictest of moms but you get my point.
> 
> If JF had a teenage daughter, how would he respond to her if she wanted all her me time, friend time, and running time and didn't do chores around the house or find a part-time job??? Don't tell me he'd ground her or put her in time-out.


I agree she is not acting like an adult, but she certain is one. My point is that with that come the consequences of her actions. This is not like a child where you are guiding her. Rather, if she does not want to do things with him, then a consequence is him doing his thing and holding her to a strict division of chores (he takes care of the kids on three nights, she gets them the other three, and they stay home on Sunday). In effect, grounding her (and yes, if a teenager did not do her chores, you might well decide that she does not get the car that weekend - that does not seem unreasonable).


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## Fallen Leaf

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think we used different words to get to the same place.


Exactly. You just wanted to pick a fight. 



> I suspect there is more here. She has told him she wants her me time. That translates into her wanting to do things with others. What I want to find out is why she does not want to do things with him.


Fair enough.



> I agree she is not acting like an adult, but she certain is one. My point is that with that come the consequences of her actions. This is not like a child where you are guiding her. Rather, if she does not want to do things with him, then a consequence is him doing his thing and holding her to a strict division of chores (he takes care of the kids on three nights, she gets them the other three, and they stay home on Sunday). In effect, grounding her (and yes, if a teenager did not do her chores, you might well decide that she does not get the car that weekend - that does not seem unreasonable).


I disagree but hey, if that's what works with you or you think it's the best possible route for JF to consider, then yeah, why not. I'm just speaking from my experience (never went through anything like this but have gone through something pretty close when the kiddos were much younger) and sharing what worked in my situation.


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## momtwo4

Hicks said:


> This is too big of an activity physically, socially, timewise, and mentally for a mother and a wife to be involved with.


Oh. Brother. Well, my two friends and I are all handling it all right. We're training for a marathon in October. We did a half-marathon quite successfully last October. I have four kids eight and under. They also have young children. We still do lots of fun things with our families. AND our husbands support us too (and are even proud of us)! We get together once a week to run--early on Sundays. During the rest of the week, training consists of a half-hour to an hour run 3-4 times a week. I usually run in the evening around 7:30 or 8:00--when the kids are either in bed or ready for bed. 


The guys all went on a 2 day camping trip a few weeks back. We were happy for them too. 

Fortunately, our husbands understand that as SAHM moms we DO need some time away from the house and our families. That is not a bad thing. It doesn't mean we're not dedicated to our families. I'm in the best shape of my life--and that's after having four babies. I have more energy, drive, and determination. I feel like if I can run 10 + miles in 85 degree heat, I can do anything.


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## momtwo4

turnera said:


> I may be mistaken, but I got the sense that it wasn't 2-3 hours. In fact, he asked her to cut down the training in HALF, so I'm guessing it was more like 10-20 hours a week. Marathon runners, IME, typically run an average of 2-3 hours a DAY to prepare for a marathon. They start out at 2 or 3 miles, then ramp up to 5 or 6, then 10, then 15...


That is simply NOT true. You do not spend 2-3 hours a day training for a marathon. You have one long run a WEEK that gradually builds in time and mileage. The rest of the runs are 3-7 miles (under an hour). Training for a marathon does not take any more time than going to the gym every day--maybe even less if you run around your neighborhood at home. Look up a few training programs--Hal Higdon, Jeff Galloway, etc.. if you don't believe me.


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## momtwo4

alte Dame said:


> For all of the years that our children were young, my H declared for himself the sort of ME time that the OP is describing his W declares for herself. If I managed to scrape myself off the wall after my extra-full day of parenting and working at my career & wanted him to accommodate me even a little such that his ME time was curtailed, he inevitably said: "These are things I love and I don't see why marriage and family has to mean that I give them up."
> 
> This shut me up for literally decades until I realized the following:
> 
> We lived such stressful daily lives trying to juggle everything that his MANY hours of me time meant (1) much more work for me at home, and (2) that we had almost no quality time together as a couple; as soon as there was a minute to breathe, he was off skiing, fishing, biking, or hiking. If you added this to the constant work travel and long work days, we had almost no time together.
> 
> I finally made the point that I didn't think he really enjoyed my company, so why were we married? What did he see in me? Every time he got a spare minute, he was out the door.
> 
> When I expressed my problem as a quality time issue, he finally got it.
> 
> You see, I wasn't trying to stop him from having his life away from me. I just wanted some life with him other than chief cook, bottle-washer, nanny, resident career lady & the woman he turned to for sex late at night.


Now I agree with this. This attitude IS a problem. If your "ME" time is taking away from your partner's much needed time, then it is simply not fair. I plan ahead so I can take my runs in the evening. I try to make sure the kids are bathed, dinner is ready, the house is picked up, etc... I wouldn't feel right waltzing out the door for a run and leaving my husband in chaos. I think my friends are also respectful like this. I know my husband feels the same way. He works hard so I don't have chaos too. 

This issue is really about respect and communication, not about what activities are suitable for a "wife and mother." I think it's controlling to tell your spouse what he/she can and can't do. However, it's not controlling to express dissatisfaction that you never spend time together. If you want to train for a marathon, great! But understand that you will have to work hard (in more ways than one) to make it happen.


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## Tall Average Guy

momtwo4 said:


> That is simply NOT true. You do not spend 2-3 hours a day training for a marathon. You have one long run a WEEK that gradually builds in time and mileage. The rest of the runs are 3-7 miles (under an hour). Training for a marathon does not take any more time than going to the gym every day--maybe even less if you run around your neighborhood at home. Look up a few training programs--Hal Higdon, Jeff Galloway, etc.. if you don't believe me.


If that were all it was, I don't think anyone would disagree. But it is not. Rather, it is that training, plus her socializing with them plus her wanting additional "me" time on top of it so that she can do non-running things with them, plus she is doing it alone rather than with him or as a family. Also, the OP is left taking care of the kids while she gets all this time, leaving little time for him or for them as a couple.

So I do see a problem with her spending too much time on this activity, where it is not just the training, but all the stuff that she lumps under that umbrella.


----------



## momtwo4

Tall Average Guy said:


> If that were all it was, I don't think anyone would disagree. But it is not. Rather, it is that training, plus her socializing with them plus her wanting additional "me" time on top of it so that she can do non-running things with them, plus she is doing it alone rather than with him or as a family. Also, the OP is left taking care of the kids while she gets all this time, leaving little time for him or for them as a couple.
> 
> So I do see a problem with her spending too much time on this activity, where it is not just the training, but all the stuff that she lumps under that umbrella.


I don't disagree. I need to read these threads more thoroughly before I jump in. My running IS pretty much my "me" time. She needs to arrange her running times so that they do not impact her husband's time. Also training for a marathon is a sacrifice in that there is not so much time to relax and unwind. You train instead. I don't see a problem in her training by herself and with her friends. But she also needs to find couple time too.

I was mainly incensed when another poster said that a "mom and wife" shouldn't train for a marathon. Not true.


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## Tall Average Guy

Fallen Leaf said:


> I disagree but hey, if that's what works with you or you think it's the best possible route for JF to consider, then yeah, why not. I'm just speaking from my experience (never went through anything like this but have gone through something pretty close when the kiddos were much younger) and sharing what worked in my situation.


I am at a loss as to what your alternative is. It seems like it is to give into her all the free time she wants, and rather than force her to talk to him about why she does not want to do things together (like an adult would be expected to do), just be a fun guy and try and get her to go with him. 

If I am understanding that correctly (and as I have gathered that over a couple of different posts, I may well have gotten it wrong), I am not sure how it gets to the heart of the matter. Understanding why she does not want to do things with him (and I think we agree she does not) is critical. To me, getting her to talk about it is important.


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## Tall Average Guy

momtwo4 said:


> I don't disagree. I need to read these threads more thoroughly before I jump in. My running IS pretty much my "me" time. She needs to arrange her running times so that they do not impact her husband's time. Also training for a marathon is a sacrifice in that there is not so much time to relax and unwind. You train instead. I don't see a problem in her training by herself and with her friends. But she also needs to find couple time too.
> 
> I was mainly incensed when another poster said that a "mom and wife" shouldn't train for a marathon. Not true.


I did not not originally interpret his post that way, though I see how you could. I interpreted it as him objecting to her spending all her time on "training" when training included far more than just the actual training.

I do agree that everyone needs "me" time, including (or maybe especially) a SAHM. I do disagree that training for a marathon is a sacrifice. It is how you see fit to spend your "me" time. Nothing wrong with that, but not a real sacrifice.


----------



## momtwo4

Tall Average Guy said:


> I did not not originally interpret his post that way, though I see how you could. I interpreted it as him objecting to her spending all her time on "training" when training included far more than just the actual training.
> 
> I do agree that everyone needs "me" time, including (or maybe especially) a SAHM. I do disagree that training for a marathon is a sacrifice. It is how you see fit to spend your "me" time. Nothing wrong with that, but not a real sacrifice.


I didn't mean that the OP thought the marathon training was unsuitable for a wife and mother. Another poster said this, and I was directing my reply at his comment.

As for training for a marathon being a sacrifice, it depends on how you look at it. You "sacrifice" time in front of the TV and time sitting on the couch reading and train instead. You basically "sacrifice" relaxation to train. I guess I don't consider all sacrifice bad. And I don't really think marathon training in and of itself should be considered "me" time any more than any other exercise. Going to the gym, walking half and hour a day, etc... should also be considered "me" time as well, right?


----------



## Fallen Leaf

Tall Average Guy said:


> I am at a loss as to what your alternative is. It seems like it is to give into her all the free time she wants, and rather than force her to talk to him about why she does not want to do things together (like an adult would be expected to do), just be a fun guy and try and get her to go with him.


I know you are. I think JF is too. My reasoning is that if JF isn't sure what to do about his wife wanting everything her way, he should give it to her. Try it out for a couple of weeks or maybe even a month to a few months. See how she reacts. This is based on him saying he loses every conversation (argument) with her about fun time.



> If I am understanding that correctly (and as I have gathered that over a couple of different posts, I may well have gotten it wrong), I am not sure how it gets to the heart of the matter. Understanding why she does not want to do things with him (and I think we agree she does not) is critical. To me, getting her to talk about it is important.


Well, sometimes you just have to give that person some space and time to do what they want to do. As long as it won't ruin your credit or put you in jail or anything, it should be fine. Give her a month or three. Don't tell her that because then she's going to be thinking about in the back of her mind that you are keeping track. Just do it for yourself. See if she comes around. If after that time period you've given her and she's just so happy to be free of you then have a talk with her. Say, "Hey, have you noticed that it's been a few months now and I feel like I've only seen you once? Lets make a weekly thing to spend at least a day together just the two of us." Or something...plan what you want to say out. Only he would know what to say.

If he keeps resisting and run against the wind, he will crack. Okay, that's sounding a bit like Dr. Wayne Dyer, but Dr. does have a point. Here's a quote from his page about bending. Something most people don't realize:
_
What is the palm trees’ secret to staying in one piece through huge, devastating storms? They bend almost down to the ground at times, and it’s that ability that allows them to survive. The Tao invites us, too, to be resilient, elastic, and pliant when we face the powerful winds that are part of life. When destructive energy comes along, allow yourself to resist brokenness by bending. Look for times when you can make the choice to weather a storm by allowing it to blow through without resistance. How does this work? Be willing to adapt to whatever may come your way by initially allowing yourself to experience that potentially destructive energy, much like the bending tree in the hurricane. When criticism comes, listen. When powerful forces push you in any direction, bow rather than fight, lean rather than break, and allow yourself to be free from a rigid set of rules—in doing so, you’ll be preserved and unbroken. _


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## Lyris

Really? Do nothing, look after the kid and send his wife off for several hours every week while he holds down things at home? Hope she magically sees the light on her own?

That seems like really terrible advice. Are you the OP's wife or something?


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## turnera

momtwo4 said:


> You basically "sacrifice" relaxation to train.


If that were the case here, we would be agreeing with you. In THIS case, _she_ is choosing to sacrifice _HIS_ relaxation time. Without his input. And then guilting him and *****ing at him if he dares to complain.


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## momtwo4

turnera said:


> If that were the case here, we would be agreeing with you. In THIS case, _she_ is choosing to sacrifice _HIS_ relaxation time. Without his input. And then guilting him and *****ing at him if he dares to complain.


And I do not disagree with that. I was not standing up for her in my post. Did you read my entire post? My issue was that another poster said marathon training is not suitable for a wife and mother. I was saying it IS possible if you are willing to sacrifice YOUR time (not other people's time) to make it happen. That is the point I made. I do not disagree that it is wrong for her to sacrifice HIS time.


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## Tall Average Guy

momtwo4 said:


> I didn't mean that the OP thought the marathon training was unsuitable for a wife and mother. Another poster said this, and I was directing my reply at his comment.
> 
> As for training for a marathon being a sacrifice, it depends on how you look at it. You "sacrifice" time in front of the TV and time sitting on the couch reading and train instead. You basically "sacrifice" relaxation to train. I guess I don't consider all sacrifice bad. And I don't really think marathon training in and of itself should be considered "me" time any more than any other exercise. Going to the gym, walking half and hour a day, etc... should also be considered "me" time as well, right?


Except that is your choice. I would assume that to you (as it is to many), that training is relaxing. Going to the gym is definitely me time. I know it is for me personally. It relaxes me and helps with stress. But it is not a sacrifice in the way that fixing the dishwasher instead of watching television is a sacrifice.


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## Tall Average Guy

Lyris said:


> Really? Do nothing, look after the kid and send his wife off for several hours every week while he holds down things at home? Hope she magically sees the light on her own?
> 
> That seems like really terrible advice. Are you the OP's wife or something?


I agree. It seems like advice to nice her out of acting like a spoiled teenage brat - give her everything she wants, put his own life on hold, do all the chores and child care, and then if she still does not want to hang out with him, beg her to do so. All without ever addressing why she actually does not want to hang out with him in the first place, or even trying to get that information.

As I noted, I am fine with giving her the space, but I would make clear that he gets space of his own. If she wants to act single, then part of that is doing the not-so-fun stuff that being single involves, like taking care of the kids. He also needs to be clear why he is doing it if she asks. 

Part of the problem I suspect is that while he has talked about having issues, his actions say otherwise. He is doing all the same loving stuff he used to. So she in effect "hears" what she wants to hear, which in this case is that his actions say no big deal. He needs to align his actions with his words.


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## momtwo4

Tall Average Guy said:


> Except that is your choice. I would assume that to you (as it is to many), that training is relaxing. Going to the gym is definitely me time. I know it is for me personally. It relaxes me and helps with stress. But it is not a sacrifice in the way that fixing the dishwasher instead of watching television is a sacrifice.


:iagree: Oh, I agree with that. OR washing the dishes, mowing the lawn, etc...


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## Tall Average Guy

momtwo4 said:


> :iagree: Oh, I agree with that. OR washing the dishes, mowing the lawn, etc...


Except that both my wife and I find mowing the lawn to be relaxing. Perhaps it has something to do with the loud noise that means the one mowing can't hear the kids ...


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## Hicks

Intense hobbies tend to get in the way of marriages. This is certainly the case in this post. They take time and energy. Many husbands encourage their wives to do more me time because she is never happy and they will try anything to get more sex. In life, priorities drive activities.


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## momtwo4

Tall Average Guy said:


> Except that both my wife and I find mowing the lawn to be relaxing. Perhaps it has something to do with the loud noise that means the one mowing can't hear the kids ...


LOL Good point!! At the end of the day, anything to get away from my precious children for a few moments is relaxing. I think that is one reason I enjoy running so much.


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## LongWalk

From everything thing OP reports sounds like they don't have much of a sex life. That seems to bother him but not her. OP is an accountant who makes good money. Does his wife feel that he is successful?

Working out is great. Everyone should. Is the OP doing it? If his wife is sexy and admired by her running buddies and OP is only in average shape, he is not going count as masculine. If she is trying to keep up with the hottest guys in he running club, then the flirtation and attraction could turn her head over time.

OP says 90 percent of me time goes to her. Ten percent to him.

The wife suggests sleeping apart. 

This marriage is going south.

The lack of a babysitter is OP's failure. His wife hasn't arranged one because she doesn't want to support his me time. He gets beta time.


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## Tall Average Guy

LongWalk said:


> The lack of a babysitter is OP's failure. His wife hasn't arranged one because she doesn't want to support his me time. He gets beta time.


I was in agreement up to here. It is not his job to arrange a babysitter for her time, just his. He should not do things that facilitate her being away. If she wants that time, and would rather get a babysitter on her nights when she is caring for her kids, she needs to do that, not him.


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## LongWalk

Average guy, I mean for himself. But of course if they have a reliable babysitter, they could both use her.


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## stuckincincy

I am new here. However, I posted a very big problem. So, I feel I should try to reply to help others. You may not like what I have to say. And also, keep in mind that what I have to say is MY expectations in a marriage. There IS no "Me" time. I can't imagine WANTING "me" time. That isn't to say that there are not extreme circumstances from time to time, but they are the exception to the rule.

It is my opinion that there is a SERIOUS flaw in ANY long term relationship where there are separate bank accounts, "me" time, different groups of friends. I view a married couple as a package deal. I don't so much as not share a single text with my s/o. Why? Not because I feel I HAVE to, it is just the natural thing to do. THIS is the person I am sharing my life with because, well...because that is who I want to share my life with.

Sometimes the answers and the problems are hidden in plain view. I guarantee you, there is some barrier there between you two. You are not as close as you could be, even ought to be. Someone hiding something? Maybe, but not necessarily. Someone unwilling to be vulnerable? Perhaps. I am telling you, somewhere in your relationship is a lack of trust to fully give yourself to each other. If you ever experience that type of closeness, you can't live with out it.

I know that I would not be in a relationship with someone that has separate friends, and wanting "me" time. Remember though, maybe that is what you two want. I can't understand how anyone could be happy that way. Between work, household, and family responsibilities, there is very little time left. Why on earth you too wouldn't want to spend every second of that minority of time left together is beyond my comprehension. 
Halfway joking and halfway serious: I proudly wear a shirt that says "Property of _________________ (her name)" And I mean it too.


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