# What's going on here?



## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

So here's the skinny. I've been together with my GF for 7 years, then on Xmas I pop the question (we always considered ourselves married, just never got around to it) and she was hesitant. Then a week later she calls it off saying that she doesn't feel the spark anymore. She suggests that she goes to counseling. I suggest we go to couples therapy, but she prefers to go by herself as she says it's her problem.

She has made appt's that have fallen through and it's been 2 months of living as "friends". I've tried everything to make things better, but no help. Then it comes out that she has had an emotional connection with a guy at work, because he's a fellow christian (I am not, but not opposed to Christianity). She says he's just a friend, and it's a friendly connection.

After her being very weird and secretive for the past month (texting constantly and never letting her phone out of her sight, or if I get near her unattended phone, she swoops in and grabs it) my curiosity got the better of me (mind you, before the pst 2 months I would have layed down my life for her, and NEVER would have mistrusted her....such a blindside this has all been, we were the perfect couple people compared themselves to) I check her txt messages.

The txts were around 40-50 per day and the male friend would constantly say that he has undying love for her, and that he wished she would be with him. She would never agree with him, nor would she stop him or chastise him. The male would say that he hopes things work out with us, but would always tell her that he wanted her.

What the hell do I do???


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

I have a strong leaning towards cutting her loose as advice. Maybe Im just a jaded old divorcee of a ten year marriage with a 10 year old girl in the middle of it all, but my wife exhibited the same signs especially cell phone related and by then it was too late, their relationship had already been developing. you will be surprised as the swiftness with which she moves on with that guy.

It would hurt far more, if you had dumped your lifes desires and goals to support and sacrifice, plan and set goals for, work and love and keep safe, a family between you and that girl for any extended period of time.


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## 5stringpicker (Feb 11, 2012)

Personally, I don't think you've got a lot to worry about. The guy is a beta male, coming on too strong with the "love" and is not a challenge to her. She is basking in this cat's fawning all over her but her romantic interest level in him seems near zero. The only caveat is if he tones down the "I'd die for you" and starts ignoring her, it may become a problem. but I doubt this will happen.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Step up to the plate and do more than he's doing. Romance her. Or dump her I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

Ironically the beta male thing worries me. I met the guy, hell I wanted to meet him and went to dinner with him (a while back mind you). He's very beta, and my GF always comments negatively on how I'm alpha. She literaly calls me alpha all the time. I'm a bodybuilder, former cop and a pretty strong personality so I can see how it might be a negative after a while.

I get how she could be in a mood where she doesn't feel appreciated and someone telling her how great she is all the time and courting her could be appealing. I just don't know how much staying power it will have, and how do I handle it?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you've lost her

find someone that will treat you with loyalty and the love you deserve


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

I tried romancing her, she doesn't want it. She stops me and has kept me in the friendzone. She says she's been waiting to talk to a therapist, but it's been 2 months.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Your GF is having an emotional affair (EA) with this other man (OM). Right now, she's preferring to cake-eat. She wants to pursue things with him. But, if they don't work out, you're her backup plan.

I recommend that you cut her loose. I assume you're young and can easily start over. The facts that her feelings for you are waning and she is developing feelings for another man before marriage are huge red flags. It would be terrible for you to work through this, marry her, have children, and then find out in five years that she's cheating on you, or has been the entire time. Imagine the pain of raising another man's children for years before you learn the truth.

The single most valuable trait in a spouse is loyalty. Your GF isn't loyal to you. So bail.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

So you want to spend the rest of your life paranoid unsure if she loves you?

And maybe you should have dinner with the OM once more


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## Mark Val (Mar 2, 2012)

She is in a dilemma..she is like 50:50 for several reasons reasoned by herself,as of now ..

and anytime she can be over to the otherside..

her faith can be a strong factor in the final decision or the dilemma itself...


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Please dont let loose of your dignity though. No one is worth being strung along and kept on the shelf for casual use.
Shes either with you or with him.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you can't control her
you can only control yourself

right now she gets to have her EA and no guilt because you're still hanging around being her friend

tell her you are not one to waste time waiting around and can no longer be friends and will seek companionship elsewhere


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

I should also mention, she is the most indecisive person on the planet and is owned by her OCD. I'm sure that her mental weaknesses are having some effect on the situation.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

clevernickname said:


> Ironically the beta male thing worries me. I met the guy, hell I wanted to meet him and went to dinner with him (a while back mind you). He's very beta, and my GF always comments negatively on how I'm alpha. She literaly calls me alpha all the time. I'm a bodybuilder, former cop and a pretty strong personality so I can see how it might be a negative after a while.
> 
> I get how she could be in a mood where she doesn't feel appreciated and someone telling her how great she is all the time and courting her could be appealing. I just don't know how much staying power it will have, and how do I handle it?


Check out Married Man Sex Life for information on the alpha/beta dichotomy. Basically, alpha behaviors create attraction in women. That's great for short term relationships where all you want is sex. And beta behaviors build comfort for women. That's great in long term relationships.

But you need a mix. If you're too alpha, then your GF isn't comfortable with you. She isn't sure you would be a good father, or a good partner when you're both old and gray. If you're too beta, then she knows you'll be a good provider and father, but she isn't attracted to you sexually. So, you get married and see your sex life steadily dwindle down to the point that you're just roommates raising children together.

It sounds like you didn't give her enough beta, so she's getting her fix somewhere else.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Yeah, my exwife had spent some time as a teenager in a "special" place for help...
I was so giving and making excuses for her when she acted out.
Yes, the longsuffering husband was I, committed to the core!!!

then she met an old highschool "just a friend" on FB, and it was SaYOnara!!


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

does it make me an ass if I lay down the "it's him or me"? I'm all for her having males friends, but IMO when they make advances, constant ones at that, they forfeit their friend card.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

clevernickname said:


> does it make me an ass if I lay down the "it's him or me"? I'm all for her having males friends, but IMO when they make advances, constant ones at that, they forfeit their friend card.


Of course not. But, you have to be prepared for her to choose him. It sounds like, if she hasn't chosen him already, she's certainly leaning that way.


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## Mark Val (Mar 2, 2012)

clevernickname said:


> I should also mention, she is the most indecisive person on the planet and is owned by her OCD. I'm sure that her mental weaknesses are having some effect on the situation.


Use Power and Love factor..

Power without Love is reckless and abusive...( this is your strategy)

Love without Power is merely sentimental,anaemic and destructive...( this is OM's strategy)


But be both like say alpha + beta..


Be both Powerful and Loveful...she has her faith in her religion which makes her tend to the OM, but her feminine carnal sided makes her to be with you...

So you make amendments , even in your Religious Belief System..if you want to make a final attempt for her..that she may be completely yours...but mind it, that she seems a Sentimental type..as I infer.


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

well, they were supposed to hang out this weekend and when I told her that I felt like he had feelings for her and that it would be a bad idea, she quickly said that she would call it off.


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## Mark Val (Mar 2, 2012)

clevernickname said:


> does it make me an ass if I lay down the "it's him or me"? I'm all for her having males friends, but IMO when they make advances, constant ones at that, they forfeit their friend card.


women are sentimental and sensitive,viz emotional ,so they will easily forfeit when they are in emotional reasoning...

win her emotionally and love her truly ..she can still be yours...


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

Mark Val said:


> Use Power and Love factor..
> 
> Power without Love is reckless and abusive...( this is your strategy)
> 
> ...


 I told her that concerning her beliefs, I like the idea of Christianity, I just never had the "belief". But I would go to church with her and help her keep her faith.


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

mind you, the OM doesn't seem very Christian with his advances towards a woman in a long term relationship.....


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## Mark Val (Mar 2, 2012)

clevernickname said:


> mind you, the OM doesn't seem very Christian with his advances towards a woman in a long term relationship.....


ha ha, thats not understood by the girl, and even you are finding it not a christian thing...but the fact is human life is a practical thing after all.....and he is just being a mere male human..


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## Mark Val (Mar 2, 2012)

clevernickname said:


> I told her that concerning her beliefs, I like the idea of Christianity, I just never had the "belief". But I would go to church with her and help her keep her faith.


thats a superficial assurance that she very well ,knows...that actually can go against you in double measure in the long run..if any.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Hi Clever I feel you have several more things on your side than the OM one is that she loved you at one time, what changed ? could you go back to the time when she did love you as more than a friend? You know her better than MR. Beta does. The alpha response would be to go kick his a#^%$ and then start carrying on with one of her best friends you know turn the table so to speak jk 

Good Luck


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> Hi Clever I feel you have several more things on your side than the OM one is that she loved you at one time, what changed ? could you go back to the time when she did love you as more than a friend? You know her better than MR. Beta does. The alpha response would be to go kick his a#^%$ and then start carrying on with one of her best friends you know turn the table so to speak jk
> 
> Good Luck


That was my first inclination.... and second.

During this rough patch, I asked her straight up "Be honest with me right now, and the other guy doesn't get his ass kicked, are you cheating on me?" She flipped out about how negative I was, and that people never deserve an ass kicking for anything that happens in a relationship. That, my friend, is when I knew she was protecting him.

What I do know is that we have been in a rut, and that she has said that she doesn't feel the spark anymore. I know that if we go to counseling it will help and get us back to normal (BTW she started a high stress job 8 months ago, and since then things have been going down hill)


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## Mark Val (Mar 2, 2012)

she might have been a simple naive girl with less knowledge on things of life..now that she is exposed to more life situations and people, she is getting to be a little "matured" but still is the sentimental dilemmatic girl...

she seems a fickle minded weakling by her emotional make up...she can turn out be extremely unpredictable with such a pattern of mental traits..and can indulge in very uncanny actions, which will stun you or anyone else...


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

I feel you have a decision to make is this the woman you want to spend the rest of yr life for? 
If so then change the dynamic of the relationship by that I mean start spending more time with her 
Like you did when y'all first started going out like a minimum of 20 hrs a week and sitting on the coach watching tv is not what I am talking about go out do things they don't have to cost a lot. Go on walks bike rides go carting whatever ie spend more recreational type time with her get to know her again where you both feel close and can share anything to one other etc that's my advice. Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> I feel you have a decision to make is this the woman you want to spend the rest of yr life for?
> If so then change the dynamic of the relationship by that I mean start spending more time with her
> Like you did when y'all first started going out like a minimum of 20 hrs a week and sitting on the coach watching tv is not what I am talking about go out do things they don't have to cost a lot. Go on walks bike rides go carting whatever ie spend more recreational type time with her get to know her again where you both feel close and can share anything to one other etc that's my advice. Good luck
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what I was thinking. I tried a date night, but she was strangely quiet and awkward. It's a weird position I'm in, because she want's no intimacy until she talks to a therapist.


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## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

Even if you cut this EA off now, do you really think this behavior won't crop up again if you stay with her and put perhaps put a ring on her finger at some point?

You aren't even married and you are in the friend zone?

Unless you are a masochist, Eject Eject Eject!!


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

Posse said:


> Even if you cut this EA off now, do you really think this behavior won't crop up again if you stay with her and put perhaps put a ring on her finger at some point?
> 
> You aren't even married and you are in the friend zone?
> 
> Unless you are a masochist, Eject Eject Eject!!


she's been 100% perfect for the 7 years we've been together, this is just such a strange turn of events.


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## Mark Val (Mar 2, 2012)

She is in a more learned and continuous learning mode on life...those times, she might have been naive and plain in her love or whatsoever..

now you are stunted in understanding human minds especially a woman's particularly this one, who by far has been an emotional being and now getting new ideas and thoughts and feelings that she has the SEVEN YEARS ITCH too in aid..!!perhaps..?


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## Mark Val (Mar 2, 2012)

I put forth several points...Now its your time for an entire analysis and inference on past,present and the probable future ...Good Luck indeed.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

So, your LT girlfriend turns down your proposal of marriage and ramps up an EA with beta boy immediately after.

Move on, why do you allow yourself to be put in storage?
Doesn't sound terribly alpha to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Agreed. Look for a new GF. She's not ready to commit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Clever,

7 years is a while to sit on the fence. I know your thinking of the investment in time and emotions... BUT!

She is telling you the future and you are not listening. After 7 years she is not committed enough to you and does not want to enter into a marriage. You can't force, teach, train someone to love you. Don't look at the loss think about the gain. 

YOU GET TO WALK AWAY! No kids, No property, No Contract. 

You think it's bad now... Oh brother, go ahead and patch this up and get married, have those kids... Find out she's cheating on you 5 years down the road. And you can rejoin us Poor [email protected] at TAM with your sob story...

I just found out my Wife's cheating... by CleverNickName.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> she's been 100% perfect for the 7 years we've been together, this is just such a strange turn of events.


Leave her for some time. If she chooses OM, then he will come in future to post here!


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> I tried a date night, but she was strangely quiet and awkward. It's a weird position I'm in, because she want's no intimacy until she talks to a therapist.


 When she talks to the OM she tells him that you and her are "just friends". You are no longer a couple. I am sorry for your loss.

You asked in your thread title "Whats going on here?" The answer is that she has put your relationship on hold as she dates the OM. You cannot let her cake eat anymore as she develops the relationship with the OM. The longer that this goes on the weaker your position gets. You have only one card to play and you know it. You must tell her that she must commit to you and your relationship right now and cut off all non-work contact with the OM or you will move on in life without her. You must do this right now and must be willing to back this up with immediate action. She may not give you the answer that you want, but every day that this goes on the less likely that she will pick you. Time is not on your side. The longer that you wait the worse it gets. Also, when she sees you walking out the door, the reality of it may wake her up and get her to remember why she use to love you. I am not saying that it is your best chance at saving your relationship, I am saying that it is your only chance at saving your relationship, because what you are doing now is clearly not working.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

clevernickname said:


> mind you, the OM doesn't seem very Christian with his advances towards a woman in a long term relationship.....


Christianity prohibits advances towards _married_ women. Women who are just dating other men are fair game.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

rock said:


> I don't understand why any married man with an OM that isn't long distance doesn't just have a sit down or at least let the guy know he knows what is going on. If that doesn't stop it, maybe you aren't alpha enough for her.
> 
> Another man shouldn't be telling your wife he loves her, period.


The OP isn't married. He's talking about his girlfriend.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mark Val said:


> She is in a dilemma..she is like 50:50 for several reasons reasoned by herself,as of now ..
> 
> and anytime she can be over to the otherside..
> 
> her faith can be a strong factor in the final decision or the dilemma itself...


If she is in an EA with another man because of religion now then I say cut your loses. This will be a continual issue through a marriage even if this guy goes away.

So let me get this clear. You guys are not married yet. You have had an ongoing sexual relationship for how long?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

She has shown you that threats of violence toward OM are not acceptable to her. I think she is the non-violent type (Christian). Any contact between you and OM will be seen as you threatening him. Not good.

As for telling her to choose you or OM - her OCD will cause her to feeling you are trying to control her - not good for you. He professes undying love while you try to force her into a decision.

The only thing left to do is to tell her that you love her but can not remain with her while knowing she has feeling for another man. Tell her you are choosing to set her free and that you will be leaving. No threats. No forced decisions. Nothing is required from her. No pressure for her to decide. You love her enough to set her free.

Then move out and wait for reality to hit her. Maybe she goes with him, maybe not. At least you will have an answer.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> does it make me an ass if I lay down the "it's him or me"? I'm all for her having males friends, but IMO when they make advances, constant ones at that, they forfeit their friend card.


Let me suggest that we can all have opposite sex friends but it is unwise to have close opposite sex friends. Forget about waiting to somehow catch an advance. 

These things are often very subtle and occur over time. EAs are forming a bond with someone. It can be very innocnet for a while. Even to the point where those involved are in denial about how close they are. Also it can escalate in the blink of an eye.

So if you are really Alpha why would you care if you were being an ass. Another male is after your woman. It is probably way past time for being an ass. I would contend while she calls you Alpha you may very well be. However, in this case you have been way more understanding than I would be. The ass my friend is this guy who is poaching your woman. She is bing an ass too because it appears that she is not comitted to you. That said, whatup with waiting seven years to propose?

If you were truly in an LTR or were married, you would be advised to stop this affair. She would have to quite her job and go full NC.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> well, they were supposed to hang out this weekend and when I told her that I felt like he had feelings for her and that it would be a bad idea, she quickly said that she would call it off.


Hanging out together is dating. Is dating other people ok in your relationship? If not she is being unfaithful now.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> mind you, the OM doesn't seem very Christian with his advances towards a woman in a long term relationship.....


Cheating is non-denominational. Forget all that jazz. This has nothing to do with being Christian or not. He wants in her pants.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> That was my first inclination.... and second.
> 
> During this rough patch, I asked her straight up "Be honest with me right now, and the other guy doesn't get his ass kicked, are you cheating on me?" She flipped out about how negative I was, and that people never deserve an ass kicking for anything that happens in a relationship. That, my friend, is when I knew she was protecting him.
> 
> What I do know is that we have been in a rut, and that she has said that she doesn't feel the spark anymore. I know that if we go to counseling it will help and get us back to normal (BTW she started a high stress job 8 months ago, and since then things have been going down hill)


BTW, I got caught up in an EA in my high stress job. You work very close with people. Long hours. The stress actually can bring two folks together. They start filling each others needs.

That is probably what you have here. Really she is in an affair and you cannot work on your relationship until she is out. This really is not a 50 / 50. The momentum is swinging to this guy. Her short time with him has trumped all your time.

What is cheating? Is that intercourse?

There is a continuum of behavior:

Inappropriate / risky -> Unfaithfulness -> Cheating

Those lines can blur, but for sure she is ready to date another man. Lets call that unfaithful. She for sure has an inappropriate relationship with another man now. She has no boundaries.

Are you guys actually living together? As a couple? It does not sound like you are a couple.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> she's been 100% perfect for the 7 years we've been together, this is just such a strange turn of events.


Affairs are chemical. She will have to go through withdrawal from her OM. Oxytocin and Dopamine.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

TRy said:


> When she talks to the OM she tells him that you and her are "just friends". You are no longer a couple. I am sorry for your loss.
> 
> You asked in your thread title "Whats going on here?" The answer is that she has put your relationship on hold as she dates the OM. You cannot let her cake eat anymore as she develops the relationship with the OM. The longer that this goes on the weaker your position gets. You have only one card to play and you know it. You must tell her that she must commit to you and your relationship right now and cut off all non-work contact with the OM or you will move on in life without her. You must do this right now and must be willing to back this up with immediate action. She may not give you the answer that you want, but every day that this goes on the less likely that she will pick you. Time is not on your side. The longer that you wait the worse it gets. Also, when she sees you walking out the door, the reality of it may wake her up and get her to remember why she use to love you. I am not saying that it is your best chance at saving your relationship, I am saying that it is your only chance at saving your relationship, because what you are doing now is clearly not working.


:iagree: 
If I was in this situation I would inform GF that I define a relationship/ marriage between 2 people not 3 and I would either leave or make her leave if she choses to continue her affair. let her get a good taste of being on her own or with beta boy and move on the grass is not always greenier and remember the majority of the time the cheating partner always affairs down. 

Good Luck


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> She has shown you that threats of violence toward OM are not acceptable to her. I think she is the non-violent type (Christian). Any contact between you and OM will be seen as you threatening him. Not good.
> 
> As for telling her to choose you or OM - her OCD will cause her to feeling you are trying to control her - not good for you. He professes undying love while you try to force her into a decision.
> 
> ...


I almost agree here.

But do not wait for her. That is weak. Letting her have a fling with someone while you wait for her fill of an affair is a bad idea IMO. Move on but start dating others. Use the time to evaluate yourself. Become the person you want to be. You may have gotten too comfortable.

You have no children together. Go find someone who can stay faithful to you. Someone with boundaries and who is more compatible with you.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

where's your fu*king outrage man !?!?

everything about this scenario is unacceptable.

as soon as you reach down and find your anger, indignation and disgust for everything that is happening _thats_ when you will have your options back... 

You may be surprised that when the tables turn back around and she pursues reconciliation... you may realize you don't want it anymore.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Clever,

She has not moved ahead in 2 months. She is not intimate and does not want to be. Your date was platonic.

I think she has made a decision. Time to move on.

Take your time doing it. Maybe she will realize what she is losing. 

But I truly do not think you are losing much. If she does not feel the same way anymore about you after 7 years then be glad you are not married.

You are Alpha. You deserve better. Go get it my man and benver look back.

She really has not been honest with you. And you need honesty and trust as the foundations in any relationship.

Good Luck.

HM64


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> where's your fu*king outrage man !?!?
> 
> everything about this scenario is unacceptable.
> 
> ...


While it is good to have a balance of Alpha and Beta you are still being very Beta about all of this.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> mind you, the OM doesn't seem very Christian with his advances towards a woman in a long term relationship.....


Maybe you should talk to him. Ask him what the phrase "fear of God" means. Then stand up and ask him if he is afraid of anything else.


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

to the people saying that I should harness the alpha and go with it; I am fighting the hardest fight I have ever had to endure. Everything in my being says to stomp this guy into the ground and then abuse my relationship with local law enforcement and walk scott free. But she has stated several times that she finds me to be slightly scary due to the stories she's heard of me when I was a cop (I had a reputation that if people put up a fight, they ended up in the hospital). I'm actually very gentle with her and never even raise my voice, but she even finds it scary when I'm calm in a heated situation, so it's not conducive to going forward, to lay down the law with the OM.

I talked to her this morning and told her that I knew everything, and that I know everyone's position in this situation. She was feeling that I'm very hard and not soft enough emotionally and she felt as though she couldn't talk to me. She found that this beta was safe and provided her with the attention and emotional support that she didn't think she could get from me. She was amazed at how insightful I was and surprised that I could be level headed in the situation. i told her to stop being friends with the OM, and since they work together, she and I need to talk to him and set him straight.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> to the people saying that I should harness the alpha and go with it; I am fighting the hardest fight I have ever had to endure. Everything in my being says to stomp this guy into the ground and then abuse my relationship with local law enforcement and walk scott free. But she has stated several times that she finds me to be slightly scary due to the stories she's heard of me when I was a cop (I had a reputation that if people put up a fight, they ended up in the hospital). I'm actually very gentle with her and never even raise my voice, but she even finds it scary when I'm calm in a heated situation, so it's not conducive to going forward, to lay down the law with the OM.
> 
> I talked to her this morning and told her that I knew everything, and that I know everyone's position in this situation. She was feeling that I'm very hard and not soft enough emotionally and she felt as though she couldn't talk to me. She found that this beta was safe and provided her with the attention and emotional support that she didn't think she could get from me. She was amazed at how insightful I was and surprised that I could be level headed in the situation. i told her to stop being friends with the OM, and since they work together, she and I need to talk to him and set him straight.


I was in a work EA. I quit that job. 

When I say Alpha I do not mean to beat anyone up. I am talking about being firm with the boundaries. If she is allin in the relationship she would change her job.


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## clevernickname (Mar 2, 2012)

the job was kind of a one in a million job, she hates it, but until something else pops up, she's stuck... Also, with setting boundaries, she complains that I'm too controlling. So I figured it would be better to point out that they were both being incredibly inappropriate and we made the decision together that she shouldn't be friends with the OM, rather than setting a "rule" that she may rebel against.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I was in a work EA. I quite that job.
> 
> When I say Alpha I do not mean to beat anyone up. I am talking about being firm with the boundaries. If she is allin in the relationship she would change her job.


Well, there is alpha and then there is alpha.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> the job was kind of a one in a million job, she hates it, but until something else pops up, she's stuck... Also, with setting boundaries, she complains that I'm too controlling. So I figured it would be better to point out that they were both being incredibly inappropriate and we made the decision together that she shouldn't be friends with the OM, rather than setting a "rule" that she may rebel against.


This is what I am talking about. 

A confident man with appropriate boundaries will not care if he is called jealous, insecure or controlling. I do think you are trying to do the right and throttling back on the Alpha. I get that. It is walking a line. A balance. Not easy when things are so important.

He thinks that he is better than one in a million. So I am hearing that you are second to this guy at work and less of a priority than her job.

I walked away from a 135K job back in 1997. I was the top technical person in my high tech company. Not bragging here. I am saying that once I realized my marriage was in jeopardy, I did what was needed. It was more important than a job. You have many jobs in a lifetime. How many times does one get married? I have now been married 35 years.

I was the idiot. I allowed it to happen. My wife loved me enough to get my attention. It was on me to make it right. Just like I think it is on her to do the right thing. You are being more than fair and understanding with her.

Both of you need to do His Needs Her Needs and do the boundary setting.
I am hearing a lot of excuses and knocks about you. I think part of the problem is that the concepts are not well understood. Boundary setting is where you discuss, define and implement agreed upon boundaries. Your boundary is about you. What you are willing to accept. It is not you controlling her. It is you being frim what you will accept. This is fundamental stuff but not commonly understood. Unfortunately for many of us we learn the hard way and then do His Needs Her Needs.

She sounds like she is trying to manipulate you into being ok with her being a cake eater.

But back off here a minute. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone who does not seem to be allin? I wish you well. I am hoping you can reach her and cut this other dude out.

Remember that an EA is chemical. If she does not go NC, the chemicals are still working. She will need to go through withdrawal. She is in a fog.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

clevernickname said:


> the job was kind of a one in a million job, she hates it, but until something else pops up, she's stuck... Also, with setting boundaries, she complains that I'm too controlling. So I figured it would be better to point out that they were both being incredibly inappropriate and we made the decision together that she shouldn't be friends with the OM, rather than setting a "rule" that she may rebel against.


Controlling is what cheaters say when they mean "you're not letting me have my affair relationship. I want to be with them, not you, why aren't you letting me have my fun."

At this point it's not about being alpha. It's entirely about you have enough self respect to enforce your boundary that you are the only man in her life emotionally/romantically and that she makes your relationship the priority.

she's not. she's choosing a man whom she can control and manipulate and who puppy dogs for her.

btw - that's what little school girls want in a BF - not what a real woman wants in her partner. So it sounds like she still hasn't grown from a girl into a woman emotionally.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

In my opinion too much is made of the alpha and beta stuff on this forum. It is a useful model, but humans are more complicated than all that. 

There is nothing that screams 'loser' louder than someone try to force themselves to be something they just aren't. In my opinion you should just be true to yourself and respect yourself. That is what being a man is all about.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> There is nothing that screams 'loser' louder than someone try to force themselves to be something they just aren't. In my opinion you should just be true to yourself and respect yourself. That is what being a man is all about.


:iagree:

I agree totally. You should not change who you are just to fit your girlfriend's mold of what she thinks a perfect man is. Don't give up your alpha mentality, you took too many years to develope it!

If she can't be true to you, end the relationship and find a woman who will be honest and forthright with you. This woman is just a sneak...plain and simple, and blaming you for all the problems in the relationship to boot.


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## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

clevernickname said:


> I talked to her this morning and told her that I knew everything, and that I know everyone's position in this situation.
> 
> She was feeling that I'm very hard and not soft enough emotionally and she felt as though she couldn't talk to me.
> 
> ...


In your response to my first post, you said that she was 100% perfect until this strange turn of events. I would say that as far as you knew, she was 100% perfect until she started allowing herself to be chased by another man and apparently did NOTHING to shut him down.

Read posts on here, and you will read lots of stories about guys who had great wives until the wife decided to start engaging in an EA or PA. You basically have a common-law wife, who has done the same thing. Thank God she has shown her true colors before you actually got married.

I have had women try to chase me while I have been in a committed relationship. It wasn't a hard thing to stop. I told them they needed to stop, and stopped spending any more time with them than necessary, while being polite but reserved towards them when contact with them couldn't be avoided. Was she incapable of doing this? I'll answer it for you. Of course not. She was perfectly capable of doing that. She chose to let BetaBoy keep chasing her.

After turning down your proposal, and while keeping you in the friend zone. WTF?

If she didn't stop BetaBoy's advances, she obviously liked it. Oh, and she hid it from you, too. While keeping you in the friend zone. That's not what I would want from my romantic partner. Not a good sign of things to come.

I'm not one of those people who always suggest dumping the romantic partner when problems come along-quite the opposite. I am pro relationship saving when possible and when it makes sense. In your case, you are dealing with a partner who shows that she has a serious integrity issue. She may not have had it before during your previous 7 years, but that was then, this is now. People change, and sometimes not for the better.

Unfortunately, from what you have said in this thread, it sounds like getting out and finding someone who will show you the common respect a long-term relationship partner SHOULD show you probably is the best thing to do in your case.

I'm calling it like I see it here. For what it is worth, it sure sounds like you have gotten handed a raw deal. I'm sorry you find yourself in this position.

Set her free and let her chase her BetaBoy while you find someone to be with who you can actually trust, and be [email protected] glad you aren't actually married. My .02 and worth what you paid for it.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> In my opinion too much is made of the alpha and beta stuff on this forum. It is a useful model, but humans are more complicated than all that.
> 
> There is nothing that screams 'loser' louder than someone try to force themselves to be something they just aren't. In my opinion you should just be true to yourself and respect yourself. That is what being a man is all about.


Yes. That is what an Alpha does. LOL. 

Seriously though this is indeed what it is about. Too often the guys who are acting "too Beta" are not being themselves. They are trying to do the right thing. So they are overly influenced to not be controlling and so on. Most of us are saying, be yourself. have respect for yourself and do not allow others to force you to be that too Beta guy. It is a balance. Mostly it is about having self respect. No one will respect you if you do not respect yourself.

In addition when communicating with a WS one has to remember there is fog and the history rewriting. So no doubt things were not 100% with her. BUT, be aware they might have been. You can be in avery solid relationship and your spouse can fall into an EA without meaning to. This usually is related to poor boundaries. Then the disatisfaction starts. The OM feeds that. The WS needs start getting met. They stop meeting the needs of the BS. The BS reacts to this in subtles ways that only push the WS further away and so on. The 50 / 50 split is not a stable state. Once the momentum swings towars the OM it is tough to reverse without some drama. Essentially you have to break the affair, have the WS go through withdrawal and then work on the relationship in earnest. Otherwise you get the fog and the history rewriting.

Again see His Needs Her Needs. This is less about Alpha / Beta and focuses on meeting emotional needs.


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## itgetsbetter (Mar 1, 2012)

Her reaction to your proposal should have been great joy. Nothing less is acceptable. If she doesn't have that excitement NOW about being married to you...when the brand new sparkly ring is gleaming anew on her finger...getting to tell all her friends about the engagement and plan a wedding (things most of us ladies LOVE to do)...it's not going to get anymore positive from here. 

I would take her answer - to carry on with this man over texts, listen about how he loves her and wants her and withhold all affection from you - as a BIG FAT NO.

I know you have years into this relationship. Perhaps waiting 7 years to propose was unwise, but I suppose that's neither here nor there at this point. 

Her answer was a resounding NO though. She didn't have the guts to say no. She took the cowards way and SHOWED you no. 

I'm sorry


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