# Apprecation for Orgasm



## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

I have to wonder what creates a LD person.Is it the chemical make-up of their mind and body.Or is it they are not attracted to their partner.Does it have a bearing on they have no apprecation for orgasm.You ask them do you want a back rub.Answer.Not if its going to lead to sex.WTF.I personally beleive its in your jeans.I think you are born one way or the other?Its in your DNA.
Now how about this??So people are givers and some are takers is there any relationship to LD HD. ???


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

It's probably a combination of things. Physically, it's due to a lack of the right sex hormones, usually T. However, I think more of it is due to emotional or psychological issues that build up until the dopamine effect from sex with your spouse or SO doesn't release the chemicals anymore.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

I am a LD talking person, my wife loves to talk and I just dont. She gets pissed because I won't engage her in long drawn out conversations that repeat the subject matter over and over ad nauseum. I would prefer my appendix burst than to get drug into one of those conversations.

Maybe that's how she feels about sex


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Hooray for orgasm!!


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

okeydokie said:


> I am a LD talking person, my wife loves to talk and I just dont. She gets pissed because I won't engage her in long drawn out conversations that repeat the subject matter over and over ad nauseum. I would prefer my appendix burst than to get drug into one of those conversations.
> 
> *Maybe that's how she feels about se*x


With your attitude towards her, it's more than likely that is how she feels.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

That's like asking what makes people paralyzed. Many different reasons. Some people are paralyzed through disease. Some through accidents. Some by birth.

Some LD women are only LD for their husbands due to lack of attraction. Some are hormonally imbalanced. Some have sexual trauma in their pasts that affects their desire. Some are simply asexual for no identifiable reason.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Just Wondering said:


> I have to wonder what creates a LD person.Is it the chemical make-up of their mind and body.Or is it they are not attracted to their partner.Does it have a bearing on they have no apprecation for orgasm.You ask them do you want a back rub.Answer.Not if its going to lead to sex.WTF.I personally beleive its in your jeans.I think you are born one way or the other?Its in your DNA.
> Now how about this??So people are givers and some are takers is there any relationship to LD HD. ???


I think reasons for being LD are all over the place.so many things can be at play there can't be a one size fits all answer.
I was LD in the previous relationship because my needs weren't being met and I didn't feel emotionally safe with him.It wasn't because I was selfish either...he got oral just about every single day.I just didn't want him to reciprocate or try to have sex with me.

in my present relationship I need him near daily.

LD can be a medical issue,an emotional issue,etc. Too many variables to label all LD people as the same.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Just Wondering said:


> I have to wonder what creates a LD person.Is it the chemical make-up of their mind and body.Or is it they are not attracted to their partner.Does it have a bearing on they have no apprecation for orgasm.You ask them do you want a back rub.Answer.Not if its going to lead to sex.WTF.I personally beleive its in your jeans.I think you are born one way or the other?Its in your DNA.
> Now how about this??So people are givers and some are takers is there any relationship to LD HD. ???


Upbringing, trauma, attitudes, past relationships, societal expectations....a plethora of influences can affect whether a person is LD or not. Orgasm is irrelevant. It's just a sensation. It's nice and all but not worth engaging in something that causes a great deal of emotional trauma or stress. Or, perhaps some LD women don't O at all. This was never an issue for me though. I've always been multiorgasmic and still had little desire for it. I'd just as soon do it myself as involve DH.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Its easy to explain why I am H.D. To me its natural,No hang ups about sex.But it seems that with a wife that is LD she can't explain it.She can't build from it.I think its easier to explain being HD than it is LD.One reason is because I think there is shame that goes along with it.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I think most LD people just arn't that interested in sex with their partner. For what ever reason and they are in denial that they have fallin out of love with their partner.

they are scared to make the decission to leave because their are kids or finances or something else involved and they would just as soon stay in a sexless marriage rather that face an unknown!


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> I think most LD people just arn't that interested in sex with their partner. For what ever reason and they are in denial that they have fallin out of love with their partner.
> 
> they are scared to make the decission to leave because their are kids or finances or something else involved and they would just as soon stay in a sexless marriage rather that face an unknown!


It may be true. But it could just be an unisexual person. Who would rather do almost anything than sex. Like sex would feel like a personal violation.

There are people like this.

One of these may like you as a person, but may have tricked you and lured you in...


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> It may be true. But it could just be an unisexual person. Who would rather do almost anything than sex. Like sex would feel like a personal violation.
> 
> There are people like this.
> 
> One of these may like you as a person, but may have tricked you and lured you in...


I'm sure there are people like that but what % of peolpe are .......a tiny % 

the vast majority I BELIEVE fall into the catogory of my previous post!


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

I know that it is so much more complexed as this .But when you share a nice relationship with your wife.And yes I know there is a time for romance and dinning.But when you ask or show interest in getting hooked up and you have the ability to satisfy your wife.And she turns down a orgasm.I don't understand that.Or she puts forth no effort or even try to enjoy herself.What is that.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Orgasms just aren't a big deal to some people. You can't make them want them any more than you can make someone crave chocolate.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Just Wondering said:


> Its easy to explain why I am H.D.* To me its natural, No hang ups about sex.*But it seems that with a wife that is LD she can't explain it.She can't build from it.I think its easier to explain being HD than it is LD.One reason is because I think there is shame that goes along with it.


Then there is the other side of this coin.... I DID have hang ups about sex...for many yrs infact, some acts anyway... but still I loved & craved the Mighty orgasm.. Had to have it !! 

I agree...could be a MYRAID of issues affecting a lack of interest in sex.... Here are some at the top of my head....

*1*. Lack of *Testosterone *and /or *Dopamine* (One is the lust hormone, the other is the hormone of 
"I need to go get me some of that!!!)...

*2*. Drugs that interfere with these hormones - Birth control pills, Depression drugs...etc

*3*. Resentment build up -destroys intimacy 

*4*. Sexual abuse / Bad experiences with men ~ feeling used sexually ...

*5.* Loss of attraction to partner....

*6*. Repressed / inhibited / shame - guilt revolving around sex 

*7.* Being a Workaholic can suck your energies as well 

*8.* Ed in the man... a woman embarrassed of her body


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> I'm sure there are people like that but what % of peolpe are .......a tiny %
> 
> the vast majority I BELIEVE fall into the catogory of my previous post!


Well I know of some "lesbian" ladies, who hate men in the intimate aspects but they will have one as a boyfriend or husband. They will not desire him sexually, and he can be Tyson Beckford or Denzil it still wouldn't matter.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> With your attitude towards her, it's more than likely that is how she feels.


You really shouldn't assume that she has nothing to do with the way I feel about her because she is an innocent sweet little woman and I'm a big ol mean man. Fact is, she can go blather on and on with one of her girlfriends, I'm stuck, for now


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> I'm sure there are people like that but what % of peolpe are .......a tiny %
> 
> the vast majority I BELIEVE fall into the catogory of my previous post!


What about ones who need to be with different ones or who their friends like? "Can't taste the same flavor all the time"?


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

okeydokie said:


> You really shouldn't assume that she has nothing to do with the way I feel about her because she is an innocent sweet little woman and I'm a big ol mean man. Fact is, she can go blather on and on with one of her girlfriends, I'm stuck, for now


Your sex-starved, and current wife is using leverage on the bedroom activities for control and empowerment?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Your sex-starved, and current wife is using leverage on the bedroom activities for control and empowerment?


Jeez man, I've been on here for years, I'm way past all that crap. Sometimes there is no fixing the sexless thing ya know. I'm not looking for solutions, just giving two cents


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

okeydokie said:


> Jeez man, I've been on here for years, I'm way past all that crap. Sometimes there is no fixing the sexless thing ya know. I'm not looking for solutions, just giving two cents


Instead of asking about your situation, I will look at threads that you started.

I was wondering if you would be as so kind as to give me links to your threads, perhaps some of the ones which started it all and that give the history.

So you have gotten out of that situation and into another?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

It's funny because people with higher drives are at times accused of being selfish, "all you want is sex" types.

I think the LD ones are the selfish people. They don't want to share themselves.

SO and I are both HD, we make love passionately, we give ourselves to each other. It is not a taking situation, it is a giving one, both of us are willing to forgo or put off our own pleasure to make sure the other is satisfied, our pleasure is seeing the other blissed out.

Personally it is not the pursuit of the O that drives me, it is the whole experience, the closeness, the at times crazy passion or other times the overwhelming feelings of love, it is making him happy and letting him make me happy.

LD people are selfish, they don't want to give or share. I think a lot of it comes from their upbringing, uptight parents, lack of love and affection shown to them etc.

No one is right or wrong but the biggest problem of all is being with an incompatible person. HD should be with HD, LD should be with LD.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Holland said:


> It's funny because people with higher drives are at times accused of being selfish, "all you want is sex" types.
> 
> I think the LD ones are the selfish people. They don't want to share themselves.
> 
> ...



Selfishness has nothing to do with it, and saying it does is ignorance. Not all LD people are selfish, just as not all HD people are open and honest and just want to share warm and fuzzy feelings with their spouse. 

Take my case as an example. I was extremely LD for many years but I wasn't "selfish". I thought Dh was selfish for wanting to fulfill his urges on me all the time. Why couldn't he go rub himself and leave me alone? My personal autonomy was at stake....why did he keep wanting to take that from me? Why did he keep wanting to use me and degrade me and hurt me? Was it selfish to not want to have sex when all those issues are attached? 

Flip the situation around. The HD person knows the LD person is totally uninterested in sex and yet keeps begging for it anyway. They make a pest of themselves, make themselves look pathetic, cause their partner to lose respect for them. They pout and whine and sulk and carry on like a petulant child. Isn't that selfish? To put their own wants above the good of the relationship?

"Selfish" is a broad brush to be painting so many different people with. I think in discussions like this, a lot of prior bias comes into play.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Selfishness has nothing to do with it, and saying it does is ignorance. Not all LD people are selfish, just as not all HD people are open and honest and just want to share warm and fuzzy feelings with their spouse.
> 
> Take my case as an example. I was extremely LD for many years but I wasn't "selfish". I thought Dh was selfish for wanting to fulfill his urges on me all the time. Why couldn't he go rub himself and leave me alone? My personal autonomy was at stake....why did he keep wanting to take that from me? Why did he keep wanting to use me and degrade me and hurt me? Was it selfish to not want to have sex when all those issues are attached?
> 
> ...


Actually no, a lot of prior experience means that I can discuss this with a clear understanding of the issues. I stand behind everything I said in my post and yes there is a real selfishness with LD people even your description above of your LD past spells that out. 

Your eg with the HD person pestering for sex may be your experience with your husband and I can see why that would be offputting but it is not my experience. In my past life I silently suffered, never whined or complained, never begged for sex but at the same time I gave everything I could to the marriage and our family. I continued to give, give give.

It is merely stating the reality of the situation, LD people are not giving of themselves therefore the word selfish can be used.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Selfishness has nothing to do with it, and saying it does is ignorance. Not all LD people are selfish, just as not all HD people are open and honest and just want to share warm and fuzzy feelings with their spouse.
> 
> Take my case as an example. I was extremely LD for many years but I wasn't "selfish". I thought Dh was selfish for wanting to fulfill his urges on me all the time. Why couldn't he go rub himself and leave me alone? My personal autonomy was at stake....why did he keep wanting to take that from me? Why did he keep wanting to use me and degrade me and hurt me? Was it selfish to not want to have sex when all those issues are attached?
> 
> ...


LadyOfTheLake,

Your post felt like a utter slam dunk breaking backboard of a rejection that killed my EQ and shredded my libido through words alone.

With the HD's, the desire, the need has to be satisfied. It's an irritant, and then it becomes painful, and then it cuts into your sexual energy. Masterbation does not cure it.

Human beings are supposed to be in contact with other human beings.

Perhaps if your HD spouse is just too HD, and you are not well under the average sexual rate for a married American, then they need to go find something to do other than worrying about sex with you. By not pestering and pressuring you, it can give you time to find it acceptable ( I could've said "for you to want it" ).

But if you have a spouse shut down to the very low end of a sexual and intimacy rate ( kissing, touching, holding, being next to, kind words and guestures ), then the onus is not all on them.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Holland said:


> Actually no, a lot of prior experience means that I can discuss this with a clear understanding of the issues. I stand behind everything I said in my post and yes there is a real selfishness with LD people even your description above of your LD past spells that out.
> 
> Your eg with the HD person pestering for sex may be your experience with your husband and I can see why that would be offputting but it is not my experience. In my past life I silently suffered, never whined or complained, never begged for sex but at the same time I gave everything I could to the marriage and our family. I continued to give, give give.
> 
> It is merely stating the reality of the situation, LD people are not giving of themselves therefore the word selfish can be used.


It's possible these LD's are not very "giving" in many many ways, and for them to give it's calculated and rationalized and still a contrived and very painful process. Almost like being violated.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> It's possible these LD's are not very "giving" in many many ways, and for them to give it's calculated and rationalized and still a contrived and very painful process. Almost like being violated.


Very possible and if that is the case then it is very sad indeed. I don't think for one second that anyone is better/worse than the other, the problem is the bad combo of people with differing drives and the potential for tricking another into a relationship.

Would be less likely for a HD person to pretend they are LD to get someone in a relationship and more likely for a LD person to pretend for some time that they had a higher drive to get a partner.

It would be like a person saying they wanted kids one day just to hook a partner, all the while knowing they really didn't want them. Or a person declaring undying fidelity to get someone and all the while knowing they were not capable of monogomy and would stray one day. 

People need to be of similar drives or problems will occur.


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## 33N 96W (Aug 25, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> ...
> *1*. Lack of *Testosterone *and /or *Dopamine* (One is the lust hormone, the other is the hormone of
> "I need to go get me some of that!!!)...
> 
> ...


A possible #9 POOR MEMORY 

By that I mean...
I may not "feel" horny or may be be too tired 
but then I remember how great an O feels . 

I guess I wasn't that tired after-all.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

33N 96W said:


> A possible #9 POOR MEMORY
> 
> By that I mean...
> I may not "feel" horny or may be be too tired
> ...


We need to become dopamine generators in the opposite sex. Almost a machine at it.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Orgasms just aren't a big deal to some people. You can't make them want them any more than you can make someone crave chocolate.[
> 
> 
> Interesting


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Well I know of some "lesbian" ladies, who hate men in the intimate aspects but they will have one as a boyfriend or husband. They will not desire him sexually, and he can be Tyson Beckford or Denzil it still wouldn't matter.


what % of women or lesbians?

a small %


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> What about ones who need to be with different ones or who their friends like? "Can't taste the same flavor all the time"?


their called sl*ts and if you got one of those then you would be better off divorcing!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Orgasms just aren't a big deal to some people. You can't make them want them any more than you can make someone crave chocolate.


what % of people don't like orgasms? raise your hand if you don't.

yes there are people who don't like them. especially from someone who can't give them one, or someone they resent, or someone who got fat. or someone who got lazy, or someone who lost their job, or someone who charged up their credit cards!


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> what % of women or lesbians?
> 
> a small %


Lesbians.

Feminist, you know its a range of feminist, but a hardcore Nazi one would not give the guy the pleasure of being desired or loved.

So more than 5% for sure...

Add onto it:

Resentful ones

Ones who like to fight

Power struggle, and any nugget of any resource which helps husband is a pain to her.

Etc.

So more than 20%


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Orgasms just aren't a big deal to some people. You can't make them want them any more than you can make someone crave chocolate.


I agree with that. When it comes to the actual orgasm, I can give or take that. It is not really a big deal. Sometimes I want to get to that point just so that the feeling of being horny goes away and I can move on to something else. I care more about looking at and being with someone who is visually stimulating than I care about the actual orgasm.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

^^ yup. A whole lot of fuss over a couple of seconds. Not worth the angst IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I would think that if someone is TRULY a low drive person, where it is just part of their nature, their makeup, their genes or whatever...that should be pretty obvious from the beginning of a relationship. I remember reading a woman's thread on here about her husband, they were both virgins until they got married. They even lived together for years and didnt have sex until they married! Now that they tied the knot, he STILL never wants to have sex with her. That man sounds to me like someone who is just naturally low drive, just not interested in sex.

Someone in this thread mentioned chocolate. There ARE people out there who just dont like sex, just like there are actually people out there who dont like chocolate! lol! Think about it, when you hear someone say they dont like chocolate, dont you get that WHAAAt?? look on your face?? 

Me personally, I lean toward being higher drive. I have been through issues in my first two marriages where I turned LD because I was being treated like dirt by my partners. Its the strangest thing when you are in the midst of it, because you dont realize that THAT is what is causing your lack of interest in sex. It kind of creeps up on you over time. Then it doesnt help and only drives you further away when your partner is being nasty to you about how you never want sex and that there is something wrong with you, and they throw insults and demands at you.(I am not saying every higher drive partner does that, but this is based on my experience.) Trust me, the last thing you want to hear when you are already dreading/avoiding sex is that there is something wrong with you. I even made my wants known, and those were ignored as well. 

So anyway, seems to me like there is more than one type of LD, I guess thats what I'm getting at here.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> ^^ yup. A whole lot of fuss over a couple of seconds. Not worth the angst IMO.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LadyOfTheLake,

The deal about it though, is for many of us, sex builds an increase amount of pleasure, and confidence in yourself along the way. Dopamine is generated and so is serotonin.

Did you know during the sex act, pain is diminished in a male and female? It's true. I had a serious contused thigh that made it very stiff and painful to position, but during the sex, I could not feel that pain.

So for a large amount of us, the ride towards the orgasm is much more than the orgasm itself. The orgasm is a release, but when the sex is good you want to hold that off as long as possible, because it feels so good.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> LadyOfTheLake,
> 
> Your post felt like a utter slam dunk breaking backboard of a rejection that killed my EQ and shredded my libido through words alone.


I don't understand. What is EQ?



> With the HD's, the desire, the need has to be satisfied. It's an irritant, and then it becomes painful, and then it cuts into your sexual energy. Masterbation does not cure it.


It seems to me that HDs have too much of their own self worth, their own validation, whatever it is that makes them happy, invested in other people. The only person you can control is yourself. . So don't be so invested in what you can get from other people. That is so needy.



> Human beings are supposed to be in contact with other human beings.


Well unless you are a hermit...you are in contact with people everyday.



> Perhaps if your HD spouse is just too HD, and you are not well under the average sexual rate for a married American, then they need to go find something to do other than worrying about sex with you. By not pestering and pressuring you, it can give you time to find it acceptable ( I could've said "for you to want it" ).


This is true. If HD's expended their energies in other ways, rather than pursuing unwilling spouses, eventually wouldn't everyone be happier?




> But if you have a spouse shut down to the very low end of a sexual and intimacy rate ( kissing, touching, holding, being next to, kind words and guestures ), then the onus is not all on them.


I don't know what this means?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

EQ is emotional intelligence.

Sex for many is a positive emotional experience, the denying of sex to that person can feel like a stab in the heart. 

3X's I agree that there are different types of LD people and also think there are different types of HD people.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I don't understand. What is EQ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It means if your spouse is able to have sex and intimacy at the lowest to no amount because you have regulated them due to your wants.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Perhaps a better question would be, "what makes LD people enter into a mating situation when they have no intention of mating or they intend to give only the barest of minimums?" There is no law requiring people to be married.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Perhaps a better question would be, "what makes LD people enter into a mating situation when they have no intention of mating or they intend to give only the barest of minimums?" There is no law requiring people to be married.


There are different levels of LD. Some people here who want to have sex every day or close to it would think once a week or once every two weeks is low. Others may say that once a month is low. To me it just depends on your perspective.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Holland said:


> EQ is emotional intelligence.
> 
> Sex for many is a positive emotional experience, the denying of sex to that person can feel like a stab in the heart.
> 
> 3X's I agree that there are different types of LD people and also think there are different types of HD people.


With my use of EQ I was meaning "Erection Quality".


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> With my use of EQ I was meaning "Erection Quality".


Opps so sorry about that. For some reason I am now having a little laugh. So now I can say Mr H has a high EQ and mean he is emotionally intelligent and has excellent Erection Quality. That has made my day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

gbrad said:


> There are different levels of LD. Some people here who want to have sex every day or close to it would think once a week or once every two weeks is low. Others may say that once a month is low. To me it just depends on your perspective.


To me "LD" isn't about frequency as much as it is about interest. If someone exhibits basically no interest at all in having a physically intimate relationship, it doesn't matter much whether they are dragged unwillingly to bed once a week, once every two weeks, once every 6 months, or every other year. 
If a person enters into a contract in which they agree to have sex with only one other person for the rest of their life, it's presumed that the other party consents to taking care of their partner's reasonable sexual needs. Otherwise, it'd be a promise to be celibate. Whether a person thinks about sex every day or not at all, their partner is a living human being who deserves to feel loved. If a person chooses to be married, they either naturally feel attracted to their mate or they learn how to fake it convincingly. 
Most here would agree it would be abusive for a husband to call his wife "ugly" every day. Whether the words are spoken or not, that's the message withholders give their partners. Those who can't show love and unselfishness have no business being in a marriage situation and they certainly don't need to be parents. 
If a husband or wife can't trust their partner to meet very reasonable, basic needs that don't cost a red cent and require only a tiny fraction of their time, how can they be trusted with anything? Without trust, there can't be love. Those in relationships with withholders are on their own. They have no reason to trust their partners will ever do anything but consume.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> To me "LD" isn't about frequency as much as it is about interest. If someone exhibits basically no interest at all in having a physically intimate relationship, it doesn't matter much whether they are dragged unwillingly to bed once a week, once every two weeks, once every 6 months, or every other year.
> If a person enters into a contract in which they agree to have sex with only one other person for the rest of their life, it's presumed that the other party consents to taking care of their partner's reasonable sexual needs. Otherwise, it'd be a promise to be celibate. Whether a person thinks about sex every day or not at all, their partner is a living human being who deserves to feel loved. If a person chooses to be married, they either naturally feel attracted to their mate or they learn how to fake it convincingly.
> Most here would agree it would be abusive for a husband to call his wife "ugly" every day. Whether the words are spoken or not, that's the message withholders give their partners. Those who can't show love and unselfishness have no business being in a marriage situation and they certainly don't need to be parents.
> If a husband or wife can't trust their partner to meet very reasonable, basic needs that don't cost a red cent and require only a tiny fraction of their time, how can they be trusted with anything? Without trust, there can't be love. Those in relationships with withholders are on their own. They have no reason to trust their partners will ever do anything but consume.


I will be honest, I'm not exactly sure how to interpret what you said when it comes to determining the difference between LD and not LD.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Holland said:


> Opps so sorry about that. For some reason I am now having a little laugh. So now I can say Mr H has a high EQ and mean he is emotionally intelligent and has excellent Erection Quality. That has made my day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And if Mr H was:

1. Ballbusted
2. Henpecked
3. Stripped of rights
4. Rejected
5. Low or poor attitude towards
6. No positive attention received

By his wife, and if he did not get it from somewhere else his EQ would also be diminished.

On the other hand if Mr H was:

1. Praised
2. Empowered
3. Strongly desired like a magnet
4. Put on a pedestal
5. Could get it when he wants
6. Receiving high amounts of enthusiasm

The EQ would go up, should even be a bit bigger.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Did you know during the sex act, pain is diminished in a male and female? It's true. I had a serious contused thigh that made it very stiff and painful to position, but during the sex, I could not feel that pain.


 We do a certain position that is a bit awkward on my legs...could be 10 -15 minutes ..not a pain in my body.....building up to the .....then WHAM....as soon as the finale is over...I suddenly feel some discomfort in my legs... I've said this to my husband a handful of times...it's so bizarre...



> So for a large amount of us, the ride towards the orgasm is much more than the orgasm itself. The orgasm is a release, *but when the sex is good you want to hold that off as long as possible, because it feels so good*.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> And if Mr H was:
> 
> 1. Ballbusted
> 2. Henpecked
> ...


Luckily this is the reality of our situation and it is all good


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There is a huge difference between behavior according to a whim and acting according to one's oath or promise. Marriage involves a voluntary commitment much like joining the military. The decision is made before the ceremony and subsequent to the ceremony, one's personal feelings become pretty much irrelevant. They are expected to "do" what they promised. You will notice that no marriage vows include the words "if I feel like it" or "if he doesn't piss me off" or "if she doesn't gain weight". We don't need a legal contract or a ceremony to function according to our changing emotions. If I adopt a child, it is expected that I will function as a parent every day, regardless of how I happen to feel. If the kid is hungry, I'll feed it, whether I am personally hungry or not. Without knowing anything else about any woman on earth, I could just randomly pick any one and expect that she'd show me affection if she happened to feel like it. That's not the level of commitment expected of a wife or a husband. That'd be just another example of a person acting according to their own selfish interest. A squirrel can muster up that much commitment. 
If I marry, it is my job to take care of my wife's reasonable sexual needs. It would be unreasonable to push her away more often than I concede. It would be unreasonable (and cruel) for me to expect her to live in loneliness, feeling perpetually undesirable, because I had a screw loose or my libido was in the basement, or my parents yelled at me as a child, or my boss is a jerk, etc. I'd be the guy who made the commitment. I either take care of business, get help until I can take care of business, or I bow out of the relationship and free her to find a real husband. Starving an adult emotionally and sexually is no more acceptable than watching one's child slowly die of starvation or dehydration. I expect almost all these cruel withholders would come unglued if their partners went outside the marriage to have their neglected sexual needs met. If you are married, your spouse's sexual well-being is your business and it really doesn't matter whether you feel LD, HD, ADD, ADHD, or whatever. When you say "I do" it implies that you can and that you will. 
I expect the hard truth of the matter is that most spouses who are tardy with sex are just as tardy with any other form of intimacy.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

waiwera said:


> I have several low drive female friends...they all say sex is boring and that their husband are useless in bed and that O's are hard to cum by....pun intended!
> 
> End of story.
> 
> ...


Oh I can believe that, too bad they apparently don't do much to help and would rather shut down and criticize, but such is the nature of some people

It also makes one wonder why they married these useless men in the first place, or were they all virgins?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> Oh I can believe that, too bad they apparently don't do much to help and would rather shut down and criticize, but such is the nature of some people
> 
> It also makes one wonder why they married these useless men in the first place, or were they all virgins?


they went for plan B

because plan A guy figured out what a bi*ch they were! LOL


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Why wouldn't someone communicate to their partner about their needs not being met?
At least give the other person a chance to try.If they don't bother trying then the relationship is doomed.If they give it their best try and still can't meet your needs,perhaps you should have some introspective thinking time...
But damn,at least give them a chance!


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Why wouldn't someone communicate to their partner about their needs not being met?
> At least give the other person a chance to try.If they don't bother trying then the relationship is doomed.If they give it their best try and still can't meet your needs,perhaps you should have some introspective thinking time...
> But damn,at least give them a chance!


In my case, there have been plenty of chances


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> It means if your spouse is able to have sex and intimacy at the lowest to no amount because you have regulated them due to your wants.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


HD is about "wants" not LD. LD just "is". It is a lack of want. And since morally and legally, you can't force a person to forgo personal autonomy, the LD person wins in these struggles. I agree that really must suck for the HD person, but the alternative would be a loss of dignity, self respect, and integrity for the LD spouse and that is far worse than the HD spouse not being able to have as much sex as they want.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> There is a huge difference between behavior according to a whim and acting according to one's oath or promise. Marriage involves a voluntary commitment much like joining the military. The decision is made before the ceremony and subsequent to the ceremony, one's personal feelings become pretty much irrelevant. They are expected to "do" what they promised. You will notice that no marriage vows include the words "if I feel like it" or "if he doesn't piss me off" or "if she doesn't gain weight". We don't need a legal contract or a ceremony to function according to our changing emotions. If I adopt a child, it is expected that I will function as a parent every day, regardless of how I happen to feel. If the kid is hungry, I'll feed it, whether I am personally hungry or not. Without knowing anything else about any woman on earth, I could just randomly pick any one and expect that she'd show me affection if she happened to feel like it. That's not the level of commitment expected of a wife or a husband. That'd be just another example of a person acting according to their own selfish interest. A squirrel can muster up that much commitment.
> If I marry, it is my job to take care of my wife's reasonable sexual needs. It would be unreasonable to push her away more often than I concede. It would be unreasonable (and cruel) for me to expect her to live in loneliness, feeling perpetually undesirable, because I had a screw loose or my libido was in the basement, or my parents yelled at me as a child, or my boss is a jerk, etc. I'd be the guy who made the commitment. I either take care of business, get help until I can take care of business, or I bow out of the relationship and free her to find a real husband. Starving an adult emotionally and sexually is no more acceptable than watching one's child slowly die of starvation or dehydration. I expect almost all these cruel withholders would come unglued if their partners went outside the marriage to have their neglected sexual needs met. If you are married, your spouse's sexual well-being is your business and it really doesn't matter whether you feel LD, HD, ADD, ADHD, or whatever. When you say "I do" it implies that you can and that you will.
> I expect the hard truth of the matter is that most spouses who are tardy with sex are just as tardy with any other form of intimacy.


So then, how do you feel about duty sex? If caring for a child is the same as caring for a spouse's needs then what would be wrong with the LD spouse putting out? What's wrong with "faking it until you make it"? Because you cannot affect how the person feels inside, they can only act to please the spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

techmom said:


> So then, how do you feel about duty sex? If caring for a child is the same as caring for a spouse's needs then what would be wrong with the LD spouse putting out? What's wrong with "faking it until you make it"? Because you cannot affect how the person feels inside, they can only act to please the spouse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Apparently, duty sex is a big ol kick in the nards too. If you have to fake it, aren't just a hot little siren all tarted up for him, well then it's no good. He's got to feel like a sex god dontchaknow.... :rofl:


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> This is true. If HD's expended their energies in other ways, rather than pursuing unwilling spouses, eventually wouldn't everyone be happier?


Sure. 

But that is only as long as the HD continues to meet the needs of the LD. But since the LD has decided that they don't need to do that for the HD, there is certainly less of an incentive to do that.

In fact, if an LD is ignoring a need of an HD, the HD is likely to start looking after their own needs and stop devoting quite as much time and effort into looking out for the needs of the LD.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

techmom said:


> So then, how do you feel about duty sex? If caring for a child is the same as caring for a spouse's needs then what would be wrong with the LD spouse putting out? What's wrong with "faking it until you make it"? Because you cannot affect how the person feels inside, they can only act to please the spouse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How do you define "duty sex"?

Because if it is done grudgingly, with eyes rolling and attitude, it is awful.

But if it is done to show love to the HD spouse and to keep a closeness, even if the LD spouse is not completely into it, then I don't see that as a problem, as long as it is not only this way.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Apparently, duty sex is a big ol kick in the nards too. If you have to fake it, aren't just a hot little siren all tarted up for him, well then it's no good. He's got to feel like a sex god dontchaknow.... :rofl:


Well he certainly wants to feel like he is worth the effort. But if the LD spouse believes that using their hand would be better (or is an equivalent), than it probably is an issue.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> HD is about "wants" not LD. LD just "is". It is a lack of want. And since morally and legally, you can't force a person to forgo personal autonomy, the LD person wins in these struggles. I agree that really must suck for the HD person, but the alternative would be a loss of dignity, self respect, and integrity for the LD spouse and that is far worse than the HD spouse not being able to have as much sex as they want.


I think they are equally as in loss of dignity and self respect,

after awhile the HD person will realise that they are lossing dignity and self respect for haveing desire for someone who dosn't have desire for them and then the light bulb goes off and the end of the marriage is near!


JMO


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

okeydokie said:


> Oh I can believe that, too bad they apparently don't do much to help and would rather shut down and criticize, but such is the nature of some people
> 
> It also makes one wonder why they married these useless men in the first place, or were they all virgins?


There's two sides to every story. I wonder what these "useless husbands" stories were.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> I think they are equally as in loss of dignity and self respect,
> 
> after awhile the HD person will realise that they are lossing dignity and self respect for haveing desire for someone who dosn't have desire for them and then the light bulb goes off and the end of the marriage is near!
> 
> ...


Why would you put your confidence in the hands of someone who diminishes it? I mean com'on, this is your better half - and of course we aren't supposed to put our self worth in someone elses hands. But our second half, to not be able to trust them with it?


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> HD is about "wants" not LD. LD just "is". It is a lack of want. And since morally and legally, you can't force a person to forgo personal autonomy, the LD person wins in these struggles. I agree that really must suck for the HD person, but the alternative would be a loss of dignity, self respect, and integrity for the LD spouse and that is far worse than the HD spouse not being able to have as much sex as they want.


I mean com'on.

If you are getting less than the average customer in walmart. Not even LESS than the average customer but on the low end to no end of it.

We are agreeing that LD, is too concerned about their wants and how they see it to make the situation more balanced.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Whats nice about this forum?Others put into words the way I really feel.And then it makes more sense to hear it from someone else.What I read about its not the orgasm its the path to the orgasm that counts is so true.I use to think I am horny I want to have a orgasm.I need to get off?? Not it at all.I now would trade all the affection,Cuddling,Feeling loved,Being kissed,For the orgasm.I think that must be why sometimes my wife does not really care if she comes or not??
What I don't understand about our relationship is I think of myself as a good guy.My wife is my life.I adore her.I want to make passionate love to her all the time.Towhich she rejects my addvances on a regular basis.Because she says she does not need it..So I have two idenitys So when I get turned down for a period of time.I change into someone I don't like.I remove the love,The friendship,We become two unhappy roomates.I don't want to be around her.she can have me eather way.But its a cycle we can't seem to break.Sometimes I think she enjoys me being a **hole to her.I don't get why she would chose being happy and giving up alittle .At my age its not about getting laid.Its about a well balance relationship and the two of you know whats expected of each other to keep both happy.But my wife chose's the off again on again life.She truly knows the difference.Thats why I feel I am taking something from you she does not want to give up?


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Just Wondering said:


> Whats nice about this forum?Others put into words the way I really feel.And then it makes more sense to hear it from someone else.What I read about its not the orgasm its the path to the orgasm that counts is so true.I use to think I am horny I want to have a orgasm.I need to get off?? Not it at all.I now would trade all the affection,Cuddling,Feeling loved,Being kissed,For the orgasm.I think that must be why sometimes my wife does not really care if she comes or not??
> What I don't understand about our relationship is I think of myself as a good guy.My wife is my life.I adore her.I want to make passionate love to her all the time.Towhich she rejects my addvances on a regular basis.Because she says she does not need it..So I have two idenitys So when I get turned down for a period of time.I change into someone I don't like.I remove the love,The friendship,We become two unhappy roomates.I don't want to be around her.she can have me eather way.But its a cycle we can't seem to break.Sometimes I think she enjoys me being a **hole to her.I don't get why she would chose being happy and giving up alittle .At my age its not about getting laid.Its about a well balance relationship and the two of you know whats expected of each other to keep both happy.But my wife chose's the off again on again life.She truly knows the difference.Thats why I feel I am taking something from you she does not want to give up?


The truth is empowering. It's not about leverage over anyone at all, but to know what's even reasonable when you aren't even getting crumbs. And you don't have to take it.

Well what's messed up is some of them do enjoy the power games much more than sex, to some of them it gets them hot. Your their step stool beta provider, and the real Alpha is in their league, not you.

Another reason is they may be getting the sex from somewhere else. They have compartamentalized you, and since their needs for intimacy and closeness is met elsewhere they don't need you for it. So they are cold with respect to you.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

A true LD is not getting it from somewhere else because they DON'T WANT IT. From anyone. They don't want to be touched or fondled kissed or stroked or f*cked. They want you to keep you and your needs to yourself. Take care of yourself. Don't be needy and whiny and pathetic. YOU can't make them want what you want when what you want is anathema to them. Don't try to rationalize the situation to make it something YOU can understand by saying they are getting their needs met elsewhere. They aren't because they DON'T need that stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> A true LD is not getting it from somewhere else because they DON'T WANT IT. From anyone. They don't want to be touched or fondled kissed or stroked or f*cked. They want you to keep you and your needs to yourself. Take care of yourself. Don't be needy and whiny and pathetic. YOU can't make them want what you want when what you want is anathema to them. Don't try to rationalize the situation to make it something YOU can understand by saying they are getting their needs met elsewhere. They aren't because they DON'T need that stuff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I absolutely agree that this is the case for a true LD. 

I am surprised, however, when the LD is genuinely surprised that the HD quits meeting all the needs of the LD.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Apparently, duty sex is a big ol kick in the nards too. If you have to fake it, aren't just a hot little siren all tarted up for him, well then it's no good. He's got to feel like a sex god dontchaknow.... :rofl:


Now why would you want to be with a man who makes you feel 10" tall instead of 10 ft tall especially if you may not be 10 ft tall, but if you feel like you are you are able to obtain more out of your life?

And if a man can't make you feel 10" tall, why would you want to even encounter the static of someone who intends to make you feel this way?


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I absolutely agree that this is the case for a true LD.
> 
> I am surprised, however, when the LD is genuinely surprised that the HD quits meeting all the needs of the LD.


True that.

LD needs to learn that part of the pleasure is in the GIVING.

It is about the life you breath onto the ones you value and what it brings to them, and in turn what they bring into you.

There's a lot of needs that the HD meets, that aren't helping them out, and some of them they may not like to do if they were doing it for someone who wasn't a friend or who doesn't help them in any way.

A HD's needs are not NEEDY. 

At below the 1 to 2 times a week level, which even the average person in walmart receives, there is a problem.

If the LD could accept that they have needs which aren't exactly the HD's needs and aren't adding to the HD, and the HD has some needs which the LD could do without, and doesn't necessarily add to the LD then it would be a correct understanding.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I absolutely agree that this is the case for a true LD.
> 
> I am surprised, however, when the LD is genuinely surprised that the HD quits meeting all the needs of the LD.


So LD could say:

"I'm not kissing you. I'm not hugging you. I'm not going to dote you. And were definitely not going to have sex"

to the HD.

And say to the HD, if you need it that bad, then go and get it somewhere else.

HD thinks. Well if I have to go get it somewhere else, barring physical injury and there are still things you can do - then why am I married to you and why are you not just some sort of plutonic friend?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> A true LD is not getting it from somewhere else because they DON'T WANT IT. From anyone. They don't want to be touched or fondled kissed or stroked or f*cked. They want you to keep you and your needs to yourself. Take care of yourself. Don't be needy and whiny and pathetic. YOU can't make them want what you want when what you want is anathema to them. Don't try to rationalize the situation to make it something YOU can understand by saying they are getting their needs met elsewhere. They aren't because they DON'T need that stuff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So why should they care if you indeed sought out an f buddy? Would that be considered taking care of oneself?

Or perhaps you are saying that LD is a form of a mental disorder that should be treated.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

okeydokie said:


> So why should the care if you indeed sought out an f buddy? Would that be considered taking care of oneself?


After a reasonable time period of trying to work it out, this would be a humane solution.

It's not that HD prefers to have FB. HD prefers that they can be intimate with their husband or wife.

HD has adjusted their "need" down to even a "regular" amount that the average joe is getting and LD still thinks its too much.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> How do you define "duty sex"?
> 
> Because if it is done grudgingly, with eyes rolling and attitude, it is awful.
> 
> But if it is done to show love to the HD spouse and to keep a closeness, even if the LD spouse is not completely into it, then I don't see that as a problem, as long as it is not only this way.


Kinda like a foot fub, back rub, head massage, pampering by drawing the bubble bath, the romantic dinner.

Received pleasure due to the pleasure given.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Now why would you want to be with a man who makes you feel 10" tall instead of 10 ft tall especially if you may not be 10 ft tall, but if you feel like you are you are able to obtain more out of your life?
> 
> And if a man can't make you feel 10" tall, why would you want to even encounter the static of someone who intends to make you feel this way?


And this is the crux of the matter that I honest to goodness do not get. How does someone having sex with you make you feel 10 ft tall vs 10 inches tall? How does *anything* another person does have any bearing at all on your own self view? I don't understand the connection? 
Do you mean to say that you derive your identity or sense of self worth from what other people think of you, or what they want of you? Why? That doesn't make any sense. No one can "make" you feel anything. You have to allow it. Only you are in charge of you.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And this is the crux of the matter that I honest to goodness do not get. How does someone having sex with you make you feel 10 ft tall vs 10 inches tall? How does *anything* another person does have any bearing at all on your own self view? I don't understand the connection?
> Do you mean to say that you derive your identity or sense of self worth from what other people think of you, or what they want of you? Why? That doesn't make any sense. No one can "make" you feel anything. You have to allow it. Only you are in charge of you.


Why would you even deal with a man who continually intends to make you feel 10" tall vs 10 feet tall?

I know how you believe in yourself, what if your spouse or boyfriend was stuck in this view point so all of your communications was from this viewpoint?

Would you continue to deal with the static even though you don't believe it to be true?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And this is the crux of the matter that I honest to goodness do not get. How does someone having sex with you make you feel 10 ft tall vs 10 inches tall? How does *anything* another person does have any bearing at all on your own self view? I don't understand the connection?


My wife does not define my self worth. But she does demonstrate how much she values me and our relationship. 

So if she shows she does not value me or it, then so be it. Of course, I will then act accordingly (as would she if I ignored her needs).



> Do you mean to say that you derive your identity or sense of self worth from what other people think of you, or what they want of you? Why? That doesn't make any sense. No one can "make" you feel anything. You have to allow it. Only you are in charge of you.


Sounds great in theory, but not really in practice. Are you saying your husband never hurts you through his words or actions? That if you feel hurt, that is on you because you allow it? I tend to doubt it.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Why would you even deal with a man who continually intends to make you feel 10" tall vs 10 feet tall?
> 
> I know how you believe in yourself, what if your spouse or boyfriend was stuck in this view point so all of your communications was from this viewpoint?
> 
> Would you continue to deal with the static even though you don't believe it to be true?


Are you postulating that LD's are *trying* to make their HD spouses feel bad about themselves? I highly doubt that is the case in most instances. I'm sure there are marriages where the LD spouse uses sex as a weapon to hurt the HD spouse....but then the issue isn't really LD/HD but a power struggle or deep emotional pain that is causing the one spouse to want to hurt the other. If that issue were resolved, likely the LD issue would be too. So it isn't really a REAL LD case, with a total lack of desire, but rather a case where desire is superseded by hurt. 

Now, I would never be with a man who didn't think the sun shines out of my arse. I am firmly aware of my own worth and my own faults and failings. I don't need to convince anyone else that I am worthy. If he can't see it for himself, I don't have the patience or interest in showing him. So I have no experience in being disrespected or treated badly by a partner. I simply wouldn't tolerate it. But then my version of disrespect or foul treatment is much more severe than just not getting laid.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Sounds great in theory, but not really in practice. Are you saying your husband never hurts you through his words or actions? That if you feel hurt, that is on you because you allow it? I tend to doubt it.


That is exactly what I am saying. He can offend me, or make me angry, or happy or sad. But he can't affect my core perception of myself. No one can. He can't make me think I'm better than I am, because I am very well aware of my shortcomings and my bad traits. He can't make me feel worthless or bad because I know I'm not. Nothing HE does or says changes who *I* am. I don't know how else to explain it?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> That is exactly what I am saying. He can offend me, or make me angry, or happy or sad. But he can't affect my core perception of myself. No one can. He can't make me think I'm better than I am, because I am very well aware of my shortcomings and my bad traits. He can't make me feel worthless or bad because I know I'm not. Nothing HE does or says changes who *I* am. I don't know how else to explain it?


I completely understand what you are saying. Again, it is great in theory. But if you are subjected to a steady stream of that, things might change for you. Your husband can make you feel things. Too much of it could make you change the way you view yourself. Hopefully, you would get out before something negative occurred, but things like kids or the like might keep you around too long.

And sometimes it is a good thing. Our partner can show us our strengths and our short comings. They can help us reconfigure how we view ourselves. They can give us confidence or humility.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> HD is about "wants" not LD. LD just "is".


And this is the crux of the problem in a HD/LD in marriage. My needs are legitimate and yours are not. I get to be the arbiter of what is considered reasonable. If you don't like it, tough.

Sex is a need in marriage. It just is. You might not like that fact, but you can't change it.



> I agree that really must suck for the HD person, but the alternative would be a loss of dignity, self respect, and integrity for the LD spouse and that is far worse than the HD spouse not being able to have as much sex as they want.


In most marriages, the HD spouse, suffering constant rejection is more humiliated than the LD spouse, who may have to suffer the inconvenience of doing something pleasurable for a few minutes.

Now, most of these marriages are cases of what you would consider "fake" LD spouses. These are people who used to have an average sex life with their spouses, but then steadily withdrew until they are sexless. I agree that the people who have made clear from day one that sex is off the table, even after marriage, have behaved much more ethically than the bait-and-switchers.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Are you postulating that LD's are *trying* to make their HD spouses feel bad about themselves? I highly doubt that is the case in most instances.


I doubt that is the case. I think the more common scenario is where the LD spouse just honestly doesn't know or doesn't care how their actions affect their spouse.



> Now, I would never be with a man who didn't think the sun shines out of my arse.


This seems inconsistent. You have said that your husband can have absolutely no affect on you. So, why hold out for a man who thinks you're wonderful? As long as you think you're wonderful, why not marry the richest man you can find? Or the man who has a house nearest your office, for the convenience factor?

Why would you (presumably) date several men, weighing each as a prospective husband, until you found a man that you (again, presumably) fancied, and who thinks you're wonderful? For most of us, the answer is that we derive satisfaction from a spouse who thinks we're wonderful. But that isn't true for you.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

I don't buy the whole LD just doesn't know stuff. How can any thinking breathing living adult not know that lack of sex may be hurting their spouse? Are they stupid, no, they are in denial, but they know


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> That is exactly what I am saying. He can offend me, or make me angry, or happy or sad. But he can't affect my core perception of myself. No one can. He can't make me think I'm better than I am, because I am very well aware of my shortcomings and my bad traits. He can't make me feel worthless or bad because I know I'm not. Nothing HE does or says changes who *I* am. I don't know how else to explain it?


yes, but if he continually made you angry, sad or offended you, your self perception could change and if it didn't change your emotional state would change.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> This seems inconsistent. You have said that your husband can have absolutely no affect on you. So, why hold out for a man who thinks you're wonderful? As long as you think you're wonderful, why not marry the richest man you can find? Or the man who has a house nearest your office, for the convenience factor?
> 
> Why would you (presumably) date several men, weighing each as a prospective husband, until you found a man that you (again, presumably) fancied, and who thinks you're wonderful? For most of us, the answer is that we derive satisfaction from a spouse who thinks we're wonderful. But that isn't true for you.


I think more along the lines of why waste time with someone who doesn't agree with me, or who doesn't see things the way I do? And obviously, if the man I chose thinks I'm wonderful, he has excellent taste 
I chose hubs because we are compatible and share similar views and values. We get along very well. We just can never work together lol. 
My point is, whether hubs wants to have sex with me or not doesn't really matter to me. It doesn't make me feel "10" or 10' tall" either way. Why would it? His choices are all on him, it has nothing to do with me. Honestly, I've been propositioned many times and I know it has nothing to do with me, as a person. It's just men looking for an easy lay....that's just the way men are. I don't derive any sort of esteem from it cause its not about me. It's just a man wanting to get his rocks off.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I think more along the lines of why waste time with someone who doesn't agree with me, or who doesn't see things the way I do? And obviously, if the man I chose thinks I'm wonderful, he has excellent taste
> I chose hubs because we are compatible and share similar views and values. We get along very well. We just can never work together lol.
> My point is, whether hubs wants to have sex with me or not doesn't really matter to me. It doesn't make me feel "10" or 10' tall" either way. Why would it? His choices are all on him, it has nothing to do with me. Honestly, I've been propositioned many times and I know it has nothing to do with me, as a person. It's just men looking for an easy lay....that's just the way men are. I don't derive any sort of esteem from it cause its not about me. It's just a man wanting to get his rocks off.


Why can't you guys work together?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

waiwera said:


> The others ...I'm not sure...they all have smiling wedding photos around their houses, they must have been happy once.



Cause they had given their last bj?


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

okeydokie said:


> Cause they had given their last bj?


Doh!

I wonder if they announced it first?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Why can't you guys work together?


Because we are both pretty set on having our own way and neither is good at taking instruction from the other. The times when we have done reno's have been way more stressful than necessary just because we are always butting heads.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> HD is about "wants" not LD. LD just "is". It is a lack of want.


With deep respect to you, LadyOfTheLake, you're channeling through a narrow definition that no English dictionary anywhere supports. 

'Needs' are not just the objective and material. The term as it applies to humans includes the subjective and psychological as well. 

For example, the effect of human contact and affection on developing infants is very well documented and there is a wealth of literature on the subject. In another thread, I pointed out that Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and Alexander Dolgun both described how people were broken mentally simply by locking them up and not letting them see or talk to another human being for a protracted period of time.

You sound like you might be a person who has little in the way of emotional need and that's okay. You're probably a stronger person in some respects because of it. But emotional needs in a relationship are generally defined by the person who is in need, not the person who is not.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Because we are both pretty set on having our own way and neither is good at taking instruction from the other. The times when we have done reno's have been way more stressful than necessary just because we are always butting heads.


Why would you guys rather have a "boss" force you to do what they want versus being able to slightly compromise for a greater good?

I've always wondered this question not on you but in general, why would someone want to listen to a micromanager of a boss, who doesn't care what you think what your comfort is, what great ideas you have, why would you rather listen to this, than your spouse?


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> With deep respect to you, LadyOfTheLake, you're channeling through a narrow definition that no English dictionary anywhere supports.
> 
> 'Needs' are not just the objective and material. The term as it applies to humans includes the subjective and psychological as well.
> 
> ...


Right, to not have feelings or much need in human interaction would provide a benefit in certain environments.

I'm sure if the husband was stripped of his needs long enough, that he would become numb to his needs and they would dull and die. Perhaps never to awaken. But in going this path, I'm willing to bet $1,000 that he loses a sense of himself and a huge sense of living, and personal satisfaction, and confidence.

He could likely find much of this in other ways. But in the back of his human mind, he would wonder "why me?", "why should I sacrifice this element which is so common in our society?", "why should people who abuse it be able to do it and not me?". It must be a large amount of pain over a long period of time to deaden it down...


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Why would you guys rather have a "boss" force you to do what they want versus being able to slightly compromise for a greater good?
> 
> I've always wondered this question not on you but in general, why would someone want to listen to a micromanager of a boss, who doesn't care what you think what your comfort is, what great ideas you have, why would you rather listen to this, than your spouse?


Who said anything about a boss? We muddle our way through or things just get left undone. I lose my temper and he shuts down so nothing gets done. Hence, I am learning to use tools and have had some of my guy friends show me a thing or two and hopefully I'll just be able to do what needs done on my own. 

Case in point: Last week we were getting ready to go file our taxes and on the way out the door he realizes he is missing two important papers. He asks me what did I do with them. I said I haven't touched any of the tax stuff he set out. So then he starts harping about my messy filing system and we start looking for the papers. I tell him they will be in a certain box. He looks, says they aren't there. I say I don't know where they are then, everything important goes in that box. He starts harping about my filing, I tell him if he can do it better to have at it. I start going through every piece of paper one by one looking for those two papers. He checks the box again. And WOW....it was RIGHT where I said it was. He gets all blustery and starts joking about it....I just say next time use your head instead of your mouth! 
So, he doesn't listen to me very well and I don't have patience at all with any perceived stupidity. So, no, we don't work well as a team. I'd rather do it myself, or assign him tasks. But once I've asked him to do something, I don't micromanage. If it's his job, he can do it as he sees fit. 



I typed up that whole paragraph thinking I was on the submission thread. :scratchhead::lol:


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Why do people equate sex with basic human touching and feeling? Sex is way more involved, even asexuals enjoy cuddling, just not sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

But I remember earlier in threads in the last two weeks that LadyOfTheLake admitted to even though being a true LD, in being more considerate of what her husband is going through and meeting some of those needs, that through her viewpoint she doesn't see as necessary, but she understands how it can hurt someone who looks at it like he does and she does not want him to hurt.

That brightened my soul a bit to hear it.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

techmom said:


> Why do people equate sex with basic human touching and feeling? Sex is way more involved, even asexuals enjoy cuddling, just not sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Even with basic human touching and feeling there are various levels of intimacy. A handshake is less intimate than an arm around your shoulder which in turn is less intimate than an arm around your waist, which in turn is less intimate than a full embrace, which in turn is less intimate than a kiss on the lips, etc., etc., etc.

That's a little wide of the point though. The point is not to equate less intimate forms of human contact with far more intimate forms and claim they are all equal. They're clearly not and we all know that. 

The point is that when it comes to human beings, absolute necessity (i.e. Will you die without it?) is not a valid criterion in sorting 'Wants' from 'Needs.'


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> Even with basic human touching and feeling there are various levels of intimacy. A handshake is less intimate than an arm around your shoulder which in turn is less intimate than an arm around your waist, which in turn is less intimate than a full embrace, which in turn is less intimate than a kiss on the lips, etc., etc., etc.
> 
> That's a little wide of the point though. The point is not to equate less intimate forms of human contact with far more intimate forms and claim they are all equal. They're clearly not and we all know that.
> 
> The point is that when it comes to human beings, absolute necessity (i.e. Will you die without it?) is not a valid criterion in sorting 'Wants' from 'Needs.'


Without some you will have increased stress. It's a known fact. Not saying its all sex, but receptive human contact and that includes those hand shake guestures, a positive eye contact and affirmation, a touch on the shouder, a helping hand etc.

You nailed it in that there are different levels of it.


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