# My infidelity concerns essentially confirmed



## Betterman (Dec 10, 2011)

For those of you moderately familiar with the ending of my two month marriage. I have suspected infidelity all along but she continuously denied it. She is severely alcoholic and she lies about certain things. She has been totally detached since the wedding.

Before me she dated the local celebrity drunk - the guy everybody loved to be around and he gets blind drunk every day. She struggled to get over him because he cheated on her - twice. Unfortunately, she drinks very heavily as well and she always goes to the places he hangs out - 30 minutes away. Yes, she drives drunk. Anyway, initially when we got together she stayed away from him - she was hurt - and that bar. Then she slowly lost the anger and she started going over there more - that was the end of her last dry period.

She had gotten more and more distant the last two-three months and she exhibited VERY closely the same characteristics when my ex-wife was cheating; cold, not interested in sex, mean-spirited, wanting to start fights, always on her smart phone, always finding a reason to go drink, etc. During our "talk" to split up, she was saying the usual, "you deserve someone better than me. We just don't fit. We're just not compatible. Our timing was just wrong. I have no ill will. I don't want to have any bad blood." Then there's this:

- I was warned by one of this other guy's best friends before the wedding to NOT marry her and that if she is not already cheating with him, she will, because he will never give up that conquest.
- Tonite, I was told by this man's ex-girlfriend that he was caught texting pictures of the two of them from when they were dating. this was right before the wedding. He said she asked for them, which is probably not true, but she obviously left the door open.
- I caught them several times in this bar whispering together and then quickly separating when I came in.
- the two of them left that bar together three weeks ago, apparently. After having been sitting very closely and whispering, he walked out alone and she walked out a minute or so later with no words. Everyone at the table was suspicious enough to check the parking lot. His car was there, hers was not. I was told this last week by someone else.
- I have confirmed that she lied to me twice about where she was last weekend while I was in Chicago.
- They have been "off the grid" from the usual haunts the last week or so at the same times - they are ALWAYS in that bar.
- Lastly, when we broke up early after our first dating, it was because I thought their interaction was too close and I told her to call me when she was done. I was told she showed up with him at the bar the very next day.

And what's crazy is that as I am sitting here I am still doubting myself. Did this guy's ex-girlfriend have an ulterior motive? Did the other girl who told me that as well? Could it be that she didn't lie on Sunday when we decided to split up and asked her if there was anything going on? I can't even believe I am still doubting this. She'll probably even turn it around on me as she does, she will deny it all and say that I am being crazy. Just wow.

Probably the truth is something deceitful. Maybe they weren't physically fooling around. Maybe in her mind she didn't lie that way "I didn't cheat on you" works. I know this, she will have herself convinced that if anything did happen, it was my fault because our marriage was so bad. I know it shouldn't matter, but right now tonite a totally unsolicited phone call from this guy's ex-girlfriend who I have never talked to at length before makes me think it is probably true.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

you know in your gut that she cheated...why are you second guessing yourself?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You need to step back and look at the big picture. Right now you seem lost in the details. So if one detail is wrong maybe she really did not cheat. This is how you sabotage yourself.

Look at the big picture. She's an hard core alcoholic who hangs with other hard core alcoholics.. and on in particular. She has been sneaking around an lying to you. She and that guy are adults with a history together. Of course she has been cheating with him. 

Let's say for a minute that she just hangs out with him and did not cheat. Does it matter? She has treated you with gross disrespect. She has humiliated you in front of a bunch of people. She does not really care that much about you. 

The big picture is enough. You don't' need the details. Stick with the big picture.

Is she wanting to stay married to you? The fact is that you do not need this in your life. Who needs a woman like that? Not you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Are you still living with her?

The that guy's now girlfriend the one he cheated on your wife with?


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## Betterman (Dec 10, 2011)

I know your both right. I think I am just having bad day. 

Xenote, you are right, I have known in my gut for a long time. 

EleGirl - We do not live together anymore. She moved out Tuesday. Your point about the big picture really hit home and, no, she had no interest in staying married (nor do I, of course,) or even counseling.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Dude. You need to fix your picker.


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## Betterman (Dec 10, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Dude. You need to fix your picker.


Ha! That's exactly the word my counselor uses! And it's true. I have started to work on what is obviously co-dependency issues for myself.

Of course, I'm early in the divorce process and this is when all of the untidy info gets back to a person, but I am trying to focus on the big picture and just let go of the details, thought it's not easy. Naturally, I don't want to be married to an alcoholic who is capable of lying, cheating, and a myriad of other things. HOWEVER, I will need to continuously remind myself that the real issue at hand isn't what she did or didn't do, it's why I selected her to begin with and getting myself to a better state so I can make better choices in the future.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

And as for the wedding dress...you might want to take a look at your options...My Ex-Wife's Wedding Dress


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Why did you marry her knowing she was a drunk?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Betterman (Dec 10, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Why did you marry her knowing she was a drunk?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When we first met, she was on what they call the "color program" from her 2nd DUI. I found out about her DUIs much later - she was evasive and deceitful about these, as I was told about them by her friend. As such, she wasn't drinking much at all at first (though she was smoking pot quite often).

I think the question really is, why didn't I move on from it WAYYYY before we even got married?? Clearly she was toxic for me (and I'm sure I wasn't good for her either), though we did have some really great times together when she would intermittently and temporarily get off the bar scene.

I think that most people have some degree of co-dependency tendencies - some degree. I am no exception. I believe that life conditions and stresses can magnify these tendencies. I was just recently coming off my last divorce (which involved cheating) when I met her and unfortunately for myself, I really hadn't done enough personal work to get myself back to a healthy place mentally and spiritually. Once I started dating her, and as is often the case with alcoholics with co-dependents, I adapted my life to hers FAR more than she did to mine. I also saw amazing potential in her and I guess I was banking on her living that way.

Sadly, every time she tried to move away from the bar scene, she grew increasingly uncomfortable, irritable, and ultimately very stressed out. She would always go back within a week or two at the most. Further, her ex was pursuing even more than I realized and she clearly was not fully blocking his overtures, though we argued about their interaction often. She would always say that I was being possessive and a jerk. My gut was telling me otherwise.

I made some classic co-dependent mistakes here and that is the focus of my personal growth from this point forward. Recover my true esteem, address the childhood sources of my co-dependency tendencies, and get myself back into meditation and spirituality, which I haven't practiced regularly in several years. 

I'll be ok. I still hurt at times, and I still think she has an amazing side to her. But I need to remember that any addict that is capable of lying so skillfully (and probably believing her lies to be true) and with no remorse, and at the same time thinks she has no accountability in life and that it's always the other person's fault, is HIGHLY unlikely to ever change or even think that she needs to. For her, it's going to take a catastrophe and even then her childhood baggage as I came to learn about is extremely extensive. The thing is, she doesn't think she carries any baggage from it.

All a tangent. I know how this goes. There will better days and there will be worse days. I'll go through the process and I'll be fine. This time, however, my follow up actions will be better.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Better, 
i want you to consider this.....yes you are hurting and some days are going to be really hard but slowly you are also getting better...little by little you will get better, but the demons that are chasing her are will make her sicker, driving her to self destruction and you can not save her, not until she is ready to save herself and she is not ready for that either, i bet without even knowing her history she had a record of running away from people, situation, solutions.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Obviously you're better off without her but it's never easy. 

Take time to reflect -- lots of time -- before getting into another relationship. Less chance of repeating this situation (because there are unfortunately more out there just like her).


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Betterman said:


> When we first met, she was on what they call the "color program" from her 2nd DUI. I found out about her DUIs much later - she was evasive and deceitful about these, as I was told about them by her friend. As such, she wasn't drinking much at all at first (though she was smoking pot quite often).
> 
> I think the question really is, why didn't I move on from it WAYYYY before we even got married?? Clearly she was toxic for me (and I'm sure I wasn't good for her either), though we did have some really great times together when she would intermittently and temporarily get off the bar scene.
> 
> ...



I think it's good that you can recognize this and reflect. Others might languish in anger and victimhood.....sure you ignored red flags but it happens. 

And it sounds like you weren't ready to move on after your divorce, that happens too.

You've shown capacity for self reflection and growth, you'll be ok. Move on from this train wreck. 

Her path is much tougher.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Betterman (Dec 10, 2011)

Xenote - Yes, she does have such a record. Many times over. She also casually backs out of things with no regard to consequence. She will also dump friends if they get on her too much about drinking for example. Two examples come to mind of note: when she first moved in, she stayed away from that bar scene and she wanted to start a non-profit, which I helped her with. We had two fund-raisers and raised several thousand dollars. We helped about three families and then she just blew it off and didn't bother with it ever again. She just walked away with no regard to those that believed in her. A second incident really hit home, when we were in her favorite bar and one of her best friends was in tears over something in the middle of the bar. My STBX, rather than comfort her, immediately left her and went inside to the main bar area. When I pressed her on why she wasn't helping she said it was the other girl's problem and it's inappropriate to cry in a bar anyway. Just unbelievable capacity back out of things, walk away from people, etc., with no apparent remorse of any kind. Whenever things get tough, just walk away from them. She told me that she never had "talks" with other guys and that she absolutely hated it to the point of physical discomfort when I wanted to address issues and feelings and "talk."

Openminded - reflection and meditation are going to be important now. Time alone - though very hard for me right now - will also be critical. 

lifeistooshort - I still have moments where I get angry - it is still very recent. However, I also have good, light moments. This morning as I got up to let the dogs out, I found myself cheering "the nightmare is over!!!" It was a brief moment of genuine elation and it faded, but I'm grateful it's in me and I look forward to those moments being more prevalent over time. It is really a nightmare trying to related in a meaningful way to someone who just can't do it and then who blames the other person for trying instead of just letting her go be drunk every day. 

Her path is definitely harder and she doesn't even believe there is a problem (she has herself convinced that she is just not done having "fun"), so I don't know if she will ever actually have the capacity to get better. I believe the thing that has made it tougher for me is that she is such a skilled deceiver/liar, manipulator, and actor (which is characteristic of an addict) that she continuously had me blaming myself for things and doubting myself, lowering my own belief system and esteem, and actually believing her about things that my gut was telling me were lies. I can even remember conversations where she would say that she doesn't know how to lie, it makes her uncomfortable (though I and her friends caught her in lies frequently) and that she has never cheated. It's just tough for me to just simply accept that another person can lie, cheat, and manipulate so casually and so skillfully - and while looking you right in the eye. She must somehow twist the truth in her mind. Like her frequent "lies of omission." On cheating, I just don't know how she could ever say that to me, unless she doesn't consider emotional affairs cheating. I guess some people feel like cheating only counts when it involves intercourse. Anyway...I still have trouble accepting all of that.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*She had gotten more and more distant the last two-three months and she exhibited VERY closely the same characteristics when my ex-wife was cheating; cold, not interested in sex, mean-spirited, wanting to start fights, always on her smart phone,*

Every time I read these signs from posters I get a sick feeling. It's like a template for a cheating spouse, and I went through this for three months before she left. 

You've helped me recently, so I'm just going to say you've got to really analyze everything and be sad and know in your heart that her cruelty will only damage you more. You know she's checked out, and you know that it can never be the same again...place clichéd advice here. I am sorry betterman, but you will be a "Better Man" when this stuff begins to wane.


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