# I just learned



## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

through a "talk" hubby and i had that one of my main grips in our almost 17 year marriage, was a F*CKING misunderstanding and i dont know how to feel or what to think. If he is silent when i am discipling the kids then that equates agreement. Well how is that! for a f*cking, howdayado!!. Many times agonizing, crying to myself, feeling like a single parent, unsupported and alone. If i had JUST known that silence equaled agreement. Cause his ACTIONS certainly didnt equate support or agreement Im totally blown away. Cause guys, really, this is one of the biggest contentions.

Why didnt I know that. I feel like ive been walking in a fog all these years with glasses on that only let me see in front of me and didnt allow me to see the sides. Information from him would have allowed me to see the sides so i could make better choices based on the right information instead of my filling in the blanks by myself, which is alsways the worst scenario.

dont even know what to say. i posted in here because.....well...yall are men...dont even know what im looking for in terms of responses. it doenst even really matter. im questioning my negative feelings for the past 17 years and wondering where else have i been totally wrong and blind. makes me wanna totally say f*ck it all. 

but i love this dude


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Keep asking him for information. And as part of that communication, encourage him to offer you information when it's apparent one or both of you are struggling.

If he answers you - even if you don't find it 'complete', give him some credit for trying if this is something he struggles with - that way you will keep him engaged in trying ... and importantly, communicating.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

Deejo

I asked him how the hell was i supposed to know that. He brings up lots of examples of things he knows about me without me telling him. Well, sh8t, im not that observant of human behavior especially adults. I counsel kids, adults i dont get. I need him to f*cking talk and communicate with me about important stuff about what he thinks and feels.

Ive been working on my responses and checking myself so that im not getting in my own way because I have definately been getting in my own way.

his response: you know im not comfortable talking about my feelings. WTF am i supposed to do with that???


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Not beat him up over not doing the thing you would like him to willingly do.

'I'm not comfortable talking about my feelings' isn't limited to men.

Trust me ... I understand and appreciate your frustration. I can only
imagine that your being a counselor, who practices and advocates communication
makes it all the more difficult.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Not beat him up over not doing the thing you would like him to willingly do.
> 
> 'I'm not comfortable talking about my feelings' isn't limited to men.
> 
> ...




you have no idea. i cant understand why i cant fix this. I help people work on their relationships with their kids for a friggin living and dont understand why i cant get a handle on this. i truely feel like a failure. 

He is often left with feeling like "what the hell is she talking about" after we have a TALK. Im really trying to make what i say very concrete and not so abstract. I need to be doing something diffeent because what ive been doing aint working.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Life between men and women, it is attractive to us as humans.

It is attractive because we are all not the same, and these discoveries of our differences, it is often blissful, but it is also often frustrating!

Try not to be angry at your man for his withholding.

As well, try not to be angry at yourself for your own assumptions.

Men, it is not just talking about feelings, it is that we as men, we do not always frame our world as feelings, or define situations by our feelings. 

Therefore, "feelings", as men "feelings" simply are not our native tongue. 

Want to know what a man is "feeling?" 

Then subtley phrase your question using men's native language, which is more "cause/effect", more pragmatic, more nuts and bolts.

Not "how do you feel about" some issue. No no no.

Instead, "what do you want to do" about some issue.

Or "what are your ideas to improve" some issue.

Then you are speaking much more in his native tongue, and in the process of dialogue framed this fashion, then he is likely to communicate his "feelings" anyway, whether it be framed more like his "opinion", his "wants or needs", or his "plan", etc etc etc.

Most important, keep on loving your man!

I wish you well.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jane,
When you think back to all the times you disciplined them and he was physically present:
- How often was he silent vs
- How often did he either disagree with you in front of them "in the moment" or tell you afterward that he disagreed

Before reading my "stream of consciousness brain dump" below I have a different question for you. After you would discipline a child and we was silent. Did you typically ask him directly "did I do the right thing"? If so, how would he respond to that question?


The reason I ask is this. If he was "always" silent than I call b.s. on what he is currently saying. Because we have kids and I think we are both decent parents. That said, at least 1/3 of the time after one of us unilaterally disciplines them in front of the others - the "observer" provides some feedback in the moment or immediately after on what might have been a better approach to take regarding either tone, or content. 

And when we "do" agree - at minimum we convey that to the kids and each other with a "nod" or a "your mother/father is right about this" at the end. 

So if he never provided feedback, he was just disengaged and is now rewriting history. 

Either way, going forward he is responsible for participating in parenting. If he watches you discipline them and agrees he should at minimum project body language concurrence by standing next to you, or "nodding" while you are talking. This "strengthens" the message for the kids. 

One thing I definitely do with our most challenging child is I come and literally stand next to my W, shoulder to shoulder facing our kid, when my W is arguing with her/punishing her. She is WAY less aggressive facing 2 parents than one. 





janesmith said:


> Deejo
> 
> I asked him how the hell was i supposed to know that. He brings up lots of examples of things he knows about me without me telling him. Well, sh8t, im not that observant of human behavior especially adults. I counsel kids, adults i dont get. I need him to f*cking talk and communicate with me about important stuff about what he thinks and feels.
> 
> ...


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

to be fair im trying to be as honest as possible. when im discipling the kids he is silent. I have asked for some show of support, like, your mom is right, or i agree with your mom. If he is in the room when this is hapening, he is literally silent.

He has said he has conversations with the kids when im not there, which is more often because i work late. He says when im not there he does discipline correct and direct them in ways i dont know about. Then my response is....why is this a secret and you dont talk about it. But when im there its on me. I see when we are all togetherr he just lets me handle it. When we are together he seems to avoid it. Im usually "there" first because i learned he isnst going to adddress it. He says he is amazed at how intune i am to the kids and will here or feel something is wrong that he doesnt clue into. I guess thats a compliment but i gained that skill out of necessity


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

Like when my sons moved my car, ran into the porch and busted my light and no one ****ing told me. when i saw it i went totally ballistic. omg im getting angry just thinking about it. So as im rightfully diggin into there @sses, he is silent until he tells me not to get so upset. whooooooo it was ON!!! later he said he was trying to be supportive. I was angry at them but angryy at him because he didnt dig in their @sses with me.

he told me later he doesnt handle things the same way i do and i dont accept that about him. sigh


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Jane,
> When you think back to all the times you disciplined them and he was physically present:
> - How often was he silent vs
> - How often did he either disagree with you in front of them "in the moment" or tell you afterward that he disagreed
> ...


its gotten better since the kids have gotten older. when they are acting up there are times i just get tired, check out go to my room, smoke a doobie, say [email protected] it and let him handle it the best way he knows how.

not the right think i know but that is something i am currently working on. i totally check out when i feel no matter what i do i cant get it right, gethim to understand, or get what i need.


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

I don't know you. Plus I'm new here.

Does this lack of communication extend to the rest of your marriage / relationship? From what I said - I'm thinking so.

Now - I don't like to place people in roles - but My wife works with Children - All her buddies, All her psychologist friends - they all seem to have issues with control.

Is your husband scared to talk around you?

When he has in the past - do you fight him on it?

Does he avoid conflict? or does he like to just keep the peace.

Maybe he doesn't feel comfortable talking around you? Maybe he's on eggshells around you for fear of your reactions? Have you ever used the " i work with children for a living" phrase with him? 

I know you're mad - so I don't know if your outbursts here are at all normal - or isolated to this situation . . .

I'm speaking from experience on the guys side with my wife. It's been easier to just let her do what she does - tiptoe around her - not question her as to not get an explosion.

Though the explosions still happen, over many stupid things.

and not so stupid things.

So - maybe food for though - again - I don't know the relationship, but even if a guy doesn't tell you about his feelings - if he feels safe or confident - when he sees something he disagrees with he would interject.

unless he's scared to. Or feels it wouldn't be wise to rock the boat in anyway.

So it's been 17 years, what are you going to do - break up with him? Have you communicated that you wished he would give his opinion on the matter in the past?

If you have - I think I mentioned this above. Did you like it and respect it and go with it - or did it not change your mind in the first place.


My wife wanted to paint the living room a different color - She asks me which one I like - I know it makes no ****ing difference, but I pick one to appease her anyway. She goes with something different. I say it's pretty well the exact color the living room currently is.

I paint the room.

No one can tell it's different.

She's pissed at me for letting her paint it that color.

When her mind is made up - my opinion doesn't really matter - even if she trys to convince herself it does. Once a guy has seen this enough times - he just says " **** it - it's not worth it."

maybe I'll get a day of peace.


Wow - this all sounds like I'm putting it on you. I'm not. haha. If none of this rings familiar - then I'm not sure what to say.

Except to open the communication on both sides.

BigBadWolfs comments are good. get him involved. but if you do - and you shoot his ideas down - be prepared for lockdown again . . .

you might have to "take a few for the team" to get him comfortable giving an opinion.

Even if you don't fully agree with his answers.

good luck!

You sound firey. lol - you a redhead? my wife is. haha.


-----------------------

I read a couple of your posts - you seem pretty open and wanting to work on your side of things as well - so that's cool. you asked a question in one of your threads :

<QUOTE>I would like us all to ask our spouses what it is like to live with us and come back and share.</QUOTE>

What happened when you asked your hubby that?

If my wife asked me that - The normal me would've probably lied to get out of the conversation as soon as humanly possible. lol
The new me i'm trying to build - will be able to answer that more honestly.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

jonny said:


> I don't know you. Plus I'm new here.
> 
> Does this lack of communication extend to the rest of your marriage / relationship? From what I said - I'm thinking so.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

A memory. 

I walk in the door from work and just as I come in my W starts World War 3 with our most difficult child. I am quiet and say nothing. AND I don't like what my W is saying/doing.

We walk into the bedroom to speak one on one. She is livid that I didn't back her up. I erupt and point out that it was not time sensitive and what I would like in the future is for her to pull me aside - explain the situation - mutually agree to an approach and THEN go take care of business. I told her I would back her play fully but I had to know what it was. 

She has done that more often since then. And sometimes we fight over what the message should be. But usually we quickly get on the same page. And then we act as one.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

I don't understand at all not even a little!! I have 3 children and have been a parent for over 12yrs how did you not know this years ago?

I really wonder what other couples talk about sometimes. You guys don't talk about discipline before it happens? That way even if you are the messenger for whatever reason at least you guys are on the same page right?

If the wife/husband aren't doing well, acting in unison, on the same page how does the family won't be functioning at it's best, right?

Glad it's out in the open now......I hope the rest of your marriage is a open book and this was just a "whoopsie".

Communicate, talk, share, be open, encourage the same, plan, live each others dreams, make it happen, you only get one shot at life.....you're a counselor so you know this stuff!! 

Just have to live it!!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sounds so easy.

Why are you here?


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

OhGeesh said:


> I don't understand at all not even a little!! I have 3 children and have been a parent for over 12yrs how did you not know this years ago?
> 
> I really wonder what other couples talk about sometimes. You guys don't talk about discipline before it happens? That way even if you are the messenger for whatever reason at least you guys are on the same page right?
> 
> ...


Hiya and nice to meet you. Married almost 17 years and Successful parent for 21 years (5 children, two adopted, on special needs) here. I didnt know because it wasnt communicated to me and i couldnt "see" it. You dont have to understand and i wouldnt expect you too because you arent us. I dont understand how women dont give blow jobs when ever their husbands want it, but i havent shared their lives or experienes so it makes sense that I dont understand that dynamic.

we are working on the communication


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> A memory.
> 
> I walk in the door from work and just as I come in my W starts World War 3 with our most difficult child. I am quiet and say nothing. AND I don't like what my W is saying/doing.
> 
> ...


I assumed silence meant disagreement in how i was handling it, as it the situation you described above. But i was wrong


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I guess I can only relate with my experiences.

It's a crap shoot when my wife was disciplining or arguing with our kids. If I joined in, I got a "I'm handling it!"

If I remained silent, I would get "Couldn't you say something?" or "Couldn't you back me up?"

it wasn't really about whether or not the discipline was right or whether or not I agreed with her, it was about the constant friction and incessant bickering between my wife and I that any tension just escalated the tension between us.

It there usually tension between the two of you?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Chris there is no reason that your wife should be so combative. You might approach and ask her what is the goal of parenting to teach the kids self discipline and to squire the skills to make something of themselves. How is contention between their parents advancing that goal? 

Based upon that, I think you ate justified to inform her that you will not engage in discussions with her that are disrespectful and inconsistent. It is unfair to you and is the worse thing for parents to do with children. The next time she is disrespectful talk over her, may say "when you are ready to speak to me without raising your voice and being unreasonable I will be in my office and walk away. Be warned, she will try to up the ante by getting worse but just repeat that you are no longer going allow this contention it bad for the kids and it gets us nowhere"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

Chris Taylor said:


> I guess I can only relate with my experiences.
> 
> It's a crap shoot when my wife was disciplining or arguing with our kids. If I joined in, I got a "I'm handling it!"
> 
> ...


no not usually. there has to be an issue going on for there to be tension. Its weired, when we are communicating working well together it doesnt matter what happened in the past because the moment is so much more important. But when i am angry all those things come to the forefont that didnt really matter when i was happy. working on that

I am being more cognizant of my reactions to make sure that I am not getting in the way of what i want. I know there has been times in the past when he has played monday morning quarteback (or at least that is my perception) and ive totally shut him down. I took it as a critique after the fact when he got to sit around and watch me do the work. I need to and am working on letting him do things HIS way and not assuming that just because I do it one way doenst make it THE way. and shutting up and listening. I have definately in part helped to sustain this problem. 


Recently our girls were fighting and he chose not to take them to dance. He told me about it in the car when he picked me up from work and I was like...cool. When we got home, i started dinner and he called the girls down and read them the riot act. I continued with dinner and didnt say anything because he SO totally handled it. Then I thought, is this what he meant by silence meaning support?! Totally had a eureka moment.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

we dont disagree about parenting in front of the kids. he rarely disagrees about how i handle things in private. its usually me wanting him to be more involved and supportive when im handling things but those terms were too abstract and I had to list the behaviors i wanted to see in order to feel supported with disclipline with the kids and he has come a long way from when the kids were young


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