# Im paranoid again... after almost a year



## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

OK... the best thing for me to do is plunge into my story. Been married over 20 years w/ two teen kids,and until recently we were both blissfully happy. I have been head over heals with my wife, and still am.

The problem started a few years ago when we met this couple at a party. They were a blast to be with... fun... great conversations, and lots in common. But, almost from the start I sensed something about them that was a bit off. It took about a year, but both my wife and I suspected that they might be closet swingers. Nothing we could put our finger on that was said directly, just thing we inferred and pieced together from dozens of conversations at parties throughout the year.

Also, at these parties, I noticed that the husband would corner my wife and get into these deep conversations. I have NEVER been jealous or suspected my wife in 20 years... she has been virtuous in every way. Now, I should say... my wife is gorgeous. Has done modeling in the past, and had even started doing some on the side again - after 20 years! But she never flaunted her beauty. She is very down to earth and NEVER used her looks in any way to take advantage. Thats what originally attracted me to her.

So, I noticed the husband chatting my wife up, we will call him ##@hole. No, I guess I should come up with a more mundane name... we'll call him John. At first, I didnt think anything of it. Then as the weeks and months went by I started seeing tiny signs of flirtation between them. Nothing to obvious, but there was a slight undercurrent of sexual tension.

Here is where the story gets a little bizarre... so I need to give some background. As I mentioned, my wife has always been very discreet. She can walk into a room and have heads turn, but not because she was trying... she just "had it". An amazing smile, a knock out body, and very feminine. She oozes class and sex appeal. Again, I dont want to come across as bragging, Im actually very average in every respect. I sometimes wondered when we were first married what she ever saw in me . I say all this to emphasize this point... she never flaunted these "God given gifts". If anything, she would dress very modestly and hated to show signs of affection in public less we draw attention. And, she always made me feel like I was her man. So, I never felt an ounze of jealousy... never!

Also, my wife and I didnt really drink... until we met this new couple. We actually were pretty boring  We had our friends and would have a glass of wine at at party... but never to excess. Then the wife of this couple, we'll call her Mary, offered my wife a fruity drink that had a lot of alcohol. Because it was a hot day, and the alchohol was watered down in fruit juice, my wife drank a few and got totally hammered. I had never seen her like this before. All these years she was always modest and the perfect saint in public. If anything she was what you might call too reserved. Always careful in her conversations and how people viewed her, making sure not to do anything that might embarrass her or I. She came across sometimes as a little boring... never risking anything or opening up to people. I on the other hand, tend to be the life of a party. I've never needed alcohol to have a good time. 

With a little liquid courage she started having fun... turned up the tunes and joined a couple other wives on the makeshift dance floor. I was in shock... I had NEVER seen her act this way. Now, along with being drop dead gorgeous, she can dance. But, it had been years since I had seen her on a dance floor. And she wasnt just dancing the waltz, she was moving her hips to the beat in seductive way that made me a little embarrassed. But... I had to admit, it was a total turn on! I think I actually went flush. That night, she was a different woman in bed. Now, we always had a pretty good sex life.. not as ofen as I would prefer and a a little tame for me, but I never really complained. But that night she was like an animal in heat  I think I had a perma press smile for 2 days after that!

Another night, after a party... John and Mary stayed after everyone had left. They brought more booze over, we cranked the tunes, and had way more to drink then we should have. I started to sense that John and Mary were playing some kind of game... a game to see if they could corrupt my wife. You see, they recgonized that she didnt drink, and that she was a bit of a goody two shoes, for lack of a better description. The sexual innuendo was thick that night, and my wife started to participate. Directing her quips at both of them. I noticed that Mary seemed to be coming on a little to my wife...wow... this was getting wierd. Once again, I found myself turned on at her reaction... but deep down... I was quite uncomfortable. As her husband, I should have stepped in and told them to tone it down. But, in my selfishness, I let it go. That night the sex was crazy good.. I was hooked.

This scenario would repeat itself a half dozen times over the next few months and I found myself totally enjoying this "new vixen" for a wife. I would look forward to parties and the evening that would follow. Fastforward to a party 6-8 months later. My wife once again had a little too much to drink. We were at a party and she was dancing with me alone...everyone had gone outside (it was a BBQ). She was flirting with me, rubbing her hips into me to the beat of a great marvin gaye song (you get the picture). Anyway, John walked in to grab his drink, and I instantly saw the look on his face, and that seeing my wife dance turned him on. A second later, I turned to my wife and caught a look in her eye that I had NEVER seen before... she was cranking that sex appeal to "11" and boring laser beams of lust directed at him. Holy Smokes... I couldnt believe it.

So, here I am dancing alone with my wife, and John sits on a bar stool.. and just watches us, drinking his beer. My wife moves in and we now are in an intimate slow dance, but as we rotate, I sense them looking at each other. Im confused and are you ready... here is where it gets tough for me... Im turned on! Im not angry... Im not jealous... Im turned on by another man turned on by my wife. I know, I know, this sounds like it belongs a Sex Stories.com site.. but its the truth. Granted, I had too much to drink (a rare time), so perhaps that played a role.

We are alone, just the 3 of us. My wife grabs a pool cue, and starts hitting the balls around, and then asks the two of us to join her. Then it all came into focus... I wasnt just imagining it... my wife started flirting with him right in front of me. Its almost like she sensed I liked it. She would stroke the pool cue seductively and try and hit a ball into a pocket where he was standing. When the ball went in right by his crotch she made some suggestive comment and my jaw figuratively dropped. My head was spinning... i didnt know what to do. I was scared and exhilarated at the same time. It was like I was on some kind of super high you get from cocaine or something... endorphins were bouncing in my skull, my heart was pounding so hard I thought it was gonna break through my rib cage.

We went home that night and made love with even more intensity than before. I woke up the next day and had to shake the cobwebs out, wondering if what had happened really happened. Eventually, it all came tumbling back into my mind... and I was embarrassed for my wife, shocked at her behaviour, and for how I had reacted. I looked at her for a sign of recognition from the night before. Nothing... like it never happened.

fast forward to the next party... once again, my wife had one to many mohjito's (whipped up by Mary) and I saw John flirting with my wife. And, again, I found myself turned on by the spectacle. It was a big party, with everyone dancing... and I saw them dancing in the corner, totally in their own world. My wife was dancing the way she had with the other wives, seductively. Holy cow... is anyone else seeing this! 

So, that night we went home, and once again she is revved up. We go into our closet and ( I will keep this as G rated as possible, Im not trying to be titalating... just detailed as it all relates) she starts kissing me. Now, our bedroom looks over a greenbelt where people can view in if they are high enough on a bluff. Now, being that its midnight and our light is on in the closet, anyone back there would have a front row seat into the closet. Sometimes John walks his dogs back there and I thought I had recently seen him trying to look into our bedroom window. Also, he had recently started walking the dog late at night, using a flashlight to see as its pitch black on the walking path. 

While Im in the closet getting changed, my wife strips down to her thong, and no top, light on and blinds wide open. Once again, let me remind you... 8 months earlier this would have been UNTHINKABLE. She closes every door, blind and barely reveals her naked body to me. I have a tendency to walk around naked when the kids are gone.. and this used to totally embarrass her... so she would run around trying to dress me 

Anway, I mention that the blinds are open as she is standing there... and you know what she says... " I dont care!" My reaction... total turn on! Once again... I found myself zooming to the stratosphere of turn ons! I grab her and whisper jokingly into her ear... "John might be walking the dogs?". She responds "Lets give him a show". And that was where we go down the rabbit hole...sigh.

Im sorry if this is too long... I just feel that you need to know the full story in order to give me the counsel I seek. Im not really a writer... and my hands are cramping at this moment. I've written more today than i have in the last 5 years. Back to the story...

After that night... I dont know who started it first, but we added something new to our sexual routine. The fantasy of my wife having sex with two men... a menage trois. (Sorry if i mispelled that). It completely turned her on... and I was enjoying "her turn on". At first, this 2nd man was nameless. But, slowly... this 2nd man got a name... can you guess! And it escalated with my wife frequently calling his name during sex. I know, I know... what an idiot I am. (Before you flame me... trust me... I have been through numerous counselling sessions with a licensed therapist, dealing with this dangerous fantasy)
But thats just it... it was nothing more than a fantasy... in our bedroom just the two of us. 

A few weeks go by and we still havent talked about any of this outside the bedrrom. Then, my wife and I are driving along heading to dinner. I turn to her and bring up the subject for the FIRST TIME! I tell her I feel bad, but Im totally turned on by seeing her "turned on" by another man. I told her I felt bad, and that we should stop bringing John into the bedroom. I got ready to have her say "Your Kidding, what a perve!". Instead, she says she has sensed it for months. She than says something that I still cant believe to this day... "What do you think about us having a 3 way". Im too shocked to speak... I stare out the car window for a few moments absorbing the full impact of her words. I have NO intention of doing it... but I want to know if she is kidding... so I goad her on..."Are You Serious?" "Yes" she says. How would go about arranging this I said in a half joking tone, barely able to keep the car on the road. She goes on to say that we could invite him over one afternoon (He has a flexible job) while his wife is at work and I would come down in a robe with a negligee on underneath. And she goes on to explain what she would do. Im breathless... and now for the first time...very scared for my my marriage. This has gone completely too far. It was a game for crying out loud... just some fun between two adults... that we kept in our bedroom. For me, it was fantasy that I was partaking in, but for my wife, she is actually talking about doing it! This is insane... she isnt really saying this. Not my discreet, reserved little wife.

Anyway, I told her NO, I was not interested... but suddenly like a fist to the solar plexus it hit me... Has she had sex with him? My whole world was unravelling in seconds. Had she fallen in love with John! Then, all those conversations they had at parties flooded my brain, and I tried desperately to piece together the evidence of a possible affair.

So, that night, I came up with a plan to coax information out of her. While alone in our bed... I brought up the topic of John and our conversation earlier in the day. Slowly but surely, and it took about 2 hours of conversation... It leaked out that something had happened. Then, after playing around the edges for awhile.. she became very quiet.. I begged her to speak. She just stared at me, saying nothing... and I started feeling my heart ripping apart. In that silence, we both stared at each other, her too scared to say more, and me dying a slow death. I began to cry... then sob uncontrollably. She stared to cry and we laid on our bed for several minutes in a river of tears. And I had this moment of absolute clarity... I had just thrown away my marriage! I was so foolish to think i could play with fire and not get burned. I had let that "Sexual High" lead me to the cliff of destruction, and now I was about to fall over. 

Nooooo... I just lost two hours of writing! I was almost done the story...saved what I had, took a break.. came back later...and everything from this point is gone. Dont know what happened. Aarrgghhh... I dont really want to rewrite everything. Sigh... will do my best...

So, my wife begged my forgiveness, saying she loved me so much. I told her I loved her and that I was partially to blame for everything that had happened. She told me that she fell into the affair because I wasnt paying enough attention to her. She said he made her feel great about herself. I didnt think I was doing that bad of a job, but perhaps I had dropped the ball. 

We had a horrible sleep, and when I awoke the next day... a dreariness hung in the air. I was depressed. Guilt, shame, fear, anger, pity.. all competed for space in my brain. I told my wife she had to tell him it was over. So, I arranged for him to come over under a false pretext. Once we were all around our kitchen table... I told him I knew. He looked down, then at my wife for confirmation, and then into space. I told him everything, our fantasy, about me getting off on watching my wife turn him on (I was sure my wife had told him already). It was humiliating for everyone. But, once I had said my peace, I felt a relief, and rather confident that I had done the right thing. I started to feel like we could do damage control, and put everything back. 

I then turned to my wife and beckoned her to give the speech we had rehearsed earlier. She was to say..."John, its over, I dont want to see you anymore". She opened her mouth... and nothing came out. I prodded her... "Don't you have anything to say?". She just stared at him, and then the tears welled up and she said "It's hard". My guts curled into tight knots. She actually had feelings for the guy. I had thought this was just a flirty thing that got out of control... and I could put the genie back in the bottle. To my horror... she then actually said... "I dont know who to choose?" My whole world became unglued. This girl that I had dated since 17, who never gave me a second of concern, who made me feel so good about myself... so virtuous... loved another man. My shoulders started heaving uncontrollably and I blubbered like a baby saying, "Im so sorry, Im so sorry for what I have done." Then they started to cry and we all cried. John looked over and said he was so sorry, my wife said she was sorry, and we sat their in silence. Then my wife said, "It wont work John, I still love my husband". I felt such a relief. He agreed and said he wanted to save his marriage.

Both of them immediately said that she must never know. In the back of my mind I thought, "OK, I will keep this info as an ACE up my sleeve". I told John that if I ever saw him near my wife I would immediately tell Mary what happened. But, I was a little concerned if Mary found out, she would blab it to the world... she has a mean streak in her, and was a little vindictive. I wanted to protect my kids.So, we all agreed to move on as if nothing had happened. Boy, was I about to get educated!

Months went by, and we started to put our life together. We had ups and downs, but overall it was getting better. I honestly thought that we had it beat. Then one day, I came home early from soccer (it had been cancelled). My wife was not home, and the kids said she left for a friends house as soon as I went to soccer. Hmmm.. she didnt say she was going anywhere. I grew suspicious. I called this friend who told me my wife was running very late (45 min). Now I was in full panic mode... I raced to my car and dialed my wife's cell. She answered the phone in a very casual, friendly manner.. "Hi Hon, how's it goin?" That put me at ease, but I thought I better push on. I asked, "Where are you?" She said,"Just heading to so and so's house". "Oh, well werent you supposed to be there 45 min ago?". Yea, but I went to the store first to get some stuff." she said. I was feeling a little better... but... still....hhhmm... strange that she took 45 min to pick up a few things and was this late going to her friends. So I asked her "What store?" That did it... she got mad... yelled something about me not trusting her, and hung up. I knew then... and it hit me like a punch to the face. I called her back... no answer. I kept dialing, over and over. Finally she picked up... and said.. Oh, such and such store... why?"... as if nothing was wrong. I thought, nice try. Meet my right now at this intersection. She agreed, and we met. I got into her vehicle and started quizing her about where she was. She said the store... so I said where are the groceries... and she said she didnt get anything. It went on like this for 20 min..till finally she relented and said she had seen him again... and that they had had sex in her vehicle less than an hour before. I freaked... swearing at her... calling her every name under the sun. She sat their, taking it all. Then she started to cry, telling me how much she loved me and that she didnt want to break up the marriage. I told her it was over... got out of the vehicle and rushed home to pack. 

While packing, my wife burst in screaming, begging me not to leave. I walked by her and down the stairs telling her I was going to stay with my dad. She rushed out to the car and said if I left she didn't think she could go on. I backed out, and drove off. As I drove further away, I thought about what she said... what did she mean she couldnt go on. Was that a veiled threat of suicide? I panicked and rushed back to make sure she wasnt going to do anything drastic. She wasnt home, and I went into full on panic. I discovered later that she had gone to a friends. Anyway, through my guilt and shame from my role in this affair, I wound up staying. I felt I couldnt blame the whole thing on her.

But, we did go to counselling, confessing everything to the therapist. What a relief that was. But, as the months went by I was in full on paranoia... never trusting her. I would spy on her continually, sometimes following her, driving by where she worked to make sure her car was there... I was in rough shape. It was ok for a few months, and then she started to change. She became very depressed. We stopped having sex.. I was slowly going nuts. I felt such anger and resentment, but guilt as well. It was a living hell. She would tell me that she loved me, but was working through things. Sometimes I wanted to tell Mary what happened. We would still see them at parties, and I would want to rush over and spill the beans. But then I would think about Mary telling everyone, my kids finding out, and the whole humiliating story getting around to our friends and family. I felt trapped.

All this time, my wife would tell me she loved me very much, and would never leave me. But, I knew she struggled with thoughts. It was excruciating. Month after month this went on. Then one day, several months after finding out about the 2nd time, I caught them in a grocery store together. My wife said it was a mere coincidence. I didint believe her and flew into a rage. There were other times that I would see his vehicle drive by the neighborhood... and I would wonder what would have happened if I wasnt home. 

That was all last year. There were many more things that happened but Im not writing a novel, and you get the point. Things have gotten better this year. We have been working on better communication. We try and date more often, get away for the odd weekend to bond, etc. Generally, things were getting better.

So now we come to this month, and the reason I found your site. I drove by John the other day. Not a huge event, I seem him semi regularly around town. But, I was driving my wife's vehicle and he craned his neck to look. When he discovered it was me he snapped his head away. I didnt think too much of it, till it happened again a few days later. You see, I have driven by him a half dozen times prior to that, and he never looked at her vehicle while I was driving...always looked the other direction. My fears came flooding back. Now my paranoia is ramped up again after all these months.

To add to all this, I asked my wife to make love the othe rday. She said "IS that all you think about". She thinks Im too demanding! We hadnt had sex in 8 o r9 days, I dont think it was an abnormal request. Normally it wouldnt be a huge deal, as our frequency of sex has been an issue since the first year, make that... 2nd year of marriage.  But I had been thinking about this other stuff, so I took it hard and walked away in anger. As the week progressed, I grew more and more irritated with her as she wouldnt come apologize for her harsh word. She seems to be pulling away from me... very wierd. Combined with my encounters with John... and now my radar is on red alert. . Finally by Friday, my thought life had gone into the toilet. So, I went to a friends house, and he advised me to write a letter, telling her I have not been doing well lately with thoughts of John and her, and that her comments about sex were very hurtful. I told her I loved her... but was going to wait for her to come talk to me. She hasnt responded... and now Im beginning to wonder if something is goin on.

Thats my story... sorry for being so long winded. Im numb from writing. Can anyone relate with what Im going through? Would love to hear your feedback and advise.

Cheers.

Vandelay


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

It's obvious your WW is still in the A with her OM, you neighbor. You need to decide for yourself if you want to continue sharing her. And if you do, there are things you are going to have to do to save it, drastic measures that you may not feel comfortable doing, like exposing the A to OMW (Mary). Then there is the detective work that you are going to have to do to verify that the A is over. Can you do this?


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

When you used her sexual interest in john to get your own sexual satisfaction, she lost all respect for you. You used your own wife. You were suppose to love her and protect her. 

I think you are done.

If you had high roaded it, you might have had a chance. But I think it is unlikely that she will forgive you for using her like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

Wow, that's quite a story. I'm not sure how to guide you except it doesn't sound like your wife is ever going to get over John. You never said whether John and Mary were swingers or not. Assuming they are, Mary may not be very concerned about John having an affair. If they are not swingers, Mary may dump John at the news and thereby free him up to pursue your wife without you having an "ace up your sleeve" to hold over him.

Things seem such a mess and in this case I would fall back to my old philosophy that the problem is not with John, but your wife. If it wasn't John involved it would be someone else, and since you cannot "correct" the behavior of every man in the world who might want to pursue your wife, you have to correct the behavior of your wife.

While her initial drinking of alcohol might have lowered her inhibitions, I suspect she has been "confused" about what she wants for a long time and has simply been keeping those feelings at bay out of duty to you and the family. On the one hand she tells you that she is going to tell John it is over, but on the other hand when the time comes to do it she can't put the words out. When she did finally tell him, it was just temporary.

At this point she is a cheater and a liar, and you are justified not to trust her. Whether you can learn to trust her again, I don't know. I think you did the right thing by going home, packing, and leaving. I also think you did the wrong thing by going back so quickly. She needs to understand that it is you, and you alone, or you will make her dreams come true and ensure she becomes available for John.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you have many choices here.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Holy wall of text. U took the 'partying' way too far and kept at it after u found out she cheated. Bad move. She's still having an affair which means u have no marriage. Tell Mary the truth. Don't let John or ur wife know ur telling her beforehand because they will try to get the stories straight and work up a defense. Tell mary asap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

His WW is so hot and sexy, and he puts her up on a pedestal. I don't think he can expose the A to the OMW.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow. Either get into an EXPENSIVE HIGHLY RATED THERAPIST now, or just divorce.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

ClipClop said:


> When you used her sexual interest in john to get your own sexual satisfaction, she lost all respect for you. You used your own wife. You were suppose to love her and protect her.
> 
> I think you are done.
> 
> ...


No offence, couldn't finish whole story, felt like I was reading Penthouse fantasies or something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cherokee96red (Apr 23, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> No offence, couldn't finish whole story, felt like I was reading Penthouse fantasies or something.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:iagree::iagree::iagree: Dear Penthouse, I've never done this before...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Frankly the damage is too great and your wife is no longer the woman you knew. Her words have no value. If she truly loved you she would not have betrayed you. She only values you as the father of her children and nothing more.

Etch this into your brain.

*Love cannot take the place of trust and a marriage without trust is doomed*

I too was once in your shoes but unlike you I made the decision to divorce my wife after I found out about her affair. It was the second most painful experience - her affair being the first - of my life. As much as I loved her, I do not regret my decision to leave her.

There is life after divorce, and in many cases, a much better one.


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

OK... after I got a certain way in, i reread my message, and I agree... I almost took stuff out so it didnt sound so "Penthouse Forumish". Trust me, I left out a dozen other lurid details that would not add anything to the story, so didnt bother.

I really do respect and appreciate some of the wisdom I see in this forum. But, I find some people awfully quick with the DIVORCE trigger. Maybe if I thought my wife didnt love me, I would feel the same. If I had played NO role in this mess, perhaps I would feel differently. I helped create this Frankenstein regrettably.


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

Clip Clop, you are so right. She did lose respect for me... and I have been paying dearly for my sins ever since. But, remember... it was she who made the advances towards John initially... I just happend to see it. So, I plead guilty as charged... but neither of us come out smelling like a rose. BTW... this is a point her and I went around and around on for almost a year... who was to blame!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

vandelay said:


> OK... after I got a certain way in, i reread my message, and I agree... I almost took stuff out so it didnt sound so "Penthouse Forumish". Trust me, I left out a dozen other lurid details that would not add anything to the story, so didnt bother.
> 
> I really do respect and appreciate some of the wisdom I see in this forum. But, I find some people awfully quick with the DIVORCE trigger. Maybe if I thought my wife didnt love me, I would feel the same. If I had played NO role in this mess, perhaps I would feel differently. I helped create this Frankenstein regrettably.


There is nothing wrong with fantasies between spouses as long as they stay fantasies. Your wife went above and beyond the fantasies and turned them into reality.

*Your wife did not ask for your permission to have an affair. She made that choice on her own.* 

So stop trying to take responsibility for a decision she made of her own free will.


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm not saying that this isn't a true story, but it DOES sound like Penthouse forum or Playboy advisor... believe me, I've read them. Also, you seem to write it as if though your kind of turned on by it... are you? Were you? There is no way in hell I would've let my wife take it that far... NO ****ING WAY! This guy's your neighbor... what did you do to him, or tell him? You didn't even expose to HIS wife? I don't know about you, but you seem pretty passive given the circumstances you just jotted down.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Did your wife show you how much she loved you when the two of you confronted the OM in your home and instead of her telling him that it is over, she said she didn't know who to choose?

Did your wife show you how much she loved you when you caught her in a lie about going to the store when she had actually been having sex with the OM?

Are you that delusional?


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

Ahhhmaaan!,
I have been reading in this forum for a the last month... and I see what happens to spouses that play the doormat... they get hammered. So I was fully expecting the reaction Im getting. 

Agreed, it sounds like a sex letter. Was I turned on writing it... not really... but... in truth... I do still have trouble with fantasies of my wife another person. I never had this problem prior to meeting this couple and heading down this path... and Im in my 40's. Also, my wife now has issues... she still finds the thought of doing a 3some attractive. SO, I guess Im here to learn and hopefully help others who are thinking about goiing down the road I just went.

Vandelay


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

"she still finds the thought of doing a 3some attractive." This is VERY scary. Especially with this guy being your neighbor and all. If she has this in her head still, you got a loooong road ahead of you, bro. So did you expose to BW, because if you didn't your leaving the door open for them to start up again.


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

BigToe,

Its responses like yours that attracted me to this forum. 

As far as John and Mary being swingers... I think they dabble in it. THere are too many things that have happened, including Mary coming on to my wife more than once.

Your point about John not being the problem... that totally scares me. How do you explain the fact that there was Never a problem in the past. And Im not an idiot when it comes to women giving off the signs. My wife NEVER did. I just dont believe this is her character.

vandelay


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

ahhhmann!, 

Her desire for a 3some is not like something that comes up. As a matter of fact she hasnt mentioned it since last summer. 

No, I havent mentioned anything to BW. Will see what happens over the next while

Vandelay


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

morituri,

I have to believe that my wife can get over this. For the sake of the kids, dont you think its worth a try? She doesnt have a track record of cheating before this... ever. Again, she is not a serial cheater. And remember, I played a role in this thing. I have read elsewhere that an emotional affair can be extremely tough to get out of. So, I realize it may take some time.

Vandelay


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

morituri said:


> Did your wife show you how much she loved you when the two of you confronted the OM in your home and instead of her telling him that it is over, she said she didn't know who to choose?
> 
> Did your wife show you how much she loved you when you caught her in a lie about going to the store when she had actually been having sex with the OM?
> 
> Are you that delusional?


Morituri,

I understand your comments... but my wife was in an emotional affair. Its like being a meth addict, you arent functioning sanely. Im not trying giving her a pass... but I do now that she wasnt acting rationally.

Van


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

vandelay said:


> morituri,
> 
> I have to believe that my wife can get over this. For the sake of the kids, dont you think its worth a try? She doesnt have a track record of cheating before this... ever. Again, she is not a serial cheater. And remember, I played a role in this thing. I have read elsewhere that an emotional affair can be extremely tough to get out of. So, I realize it may take some time.
> 
> Vandelay


I respect your choice to fight to save your marriage and your family. It is an admirable goal.

But don't kid yourself that your wife's lack of substantive actions in ending all contact with the OM after her affair have not played a role in your emotional state. 

If she is truly serious about repairing the damage she's caused then she has to do everything in her power to forever avoid the OM and be more than willing to become an open book for your wellbeing. She has to realize that it may take years - 2 to 5 according to the experts - before you can put it to rest. Is she willing to do this?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

vandelay said:


> Morituri,
> 
> I understand your comments... but my wife was in an emotional affair. Its like being a meth addict, you arent functioning sanely. Im not trying giving her a pass... but I do now that she wasnt acting rationally.
> 
> Van


Understood but just like a drug addict, she won't become a well person until she commits to ending contact forever with 'her drug' the OM.

Has she finally done this?


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

morituri said:


> If she is truly serious about repairing the damage she's caused then she has to do everything in her power to forever avoid the OM and be more than willing to become an open book for your wellbeing. She has to realize that it may take years - 2 to 5 according to the experts - before you can put it to rest. Is she willing to do this?


Yes, I truly believe she is in it for the long run. We have wept so many times in the last couple of years. But, we have our moments. Now is one of them. 

She finally responded tonite by saying that she appreciated my note... and wanted to meet after kids went to bed I was encouraged...after a week of not talking. 

But she got caught up watching a movie with my daughter... now IM downstairs answering everyones comments and its after 11. She isnt going to talk to me tonight... sigh. 

Im feeling the anger again.. feeling that she just doesnt see my pain. Is she callous or just unaware.

Van


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

I should clarify... my note told her I was not going to come to her. I told her that her comments were hurtful, and did not come at a good time considering my headspace. I told her to come and talk to me when she is ready. That was 3 days ago. Im still waiting.

Van


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

morituri said:


> Understood but just like a drug addict, she won't become a well person until she commits to ending contact forever with 'her drug' the OM.
> 
> Has she finally done this?


Yes, she has committed to not seeing him again. And its been good for a year. But, with John all of sudden acting differently (looking into the vehicle, after looking the other way for months) and her rebuff sexually and finally not talking for a week...its sent me into my first tailspin in quite awhile.

van


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You are not doing the one thing that could/would/may help you the most

You need to tell Mary what has been going on

She deserves to know, so she can decide her own future with full knowldege-----and----

She can/will be your ally in making sure the A., ends and there is no more contact

I know you feel guilt in allowing this to happen, in front of your eyes, when you could have stopped/prevented the A. from happening, and I believe that guilt has kept you from laying out tuff boundaries, and harsh consequences---to continued cheating and contact

At this point what are your boundaries, and consequences if any???????


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

So what have you done to verify that there is indeed NC? Did she even send him a NC letter in your presence? Her cold behavior and cutting you off sexually doesn't seem to indicate that she has been NC with OM, in fact, it shows the opposite. It looks like they just took the A underground. Your gut is screaming at you that something is going on again, which is a good indication that it has. It's quite common for the APs to break NC and restart the A when they think the dust has settled.

Do you have a keylogger monitoring the computer? Do you have a VAR monitoring your bedroom or her vehicle? Do you have software monitoring her phone? 

If you've been reading this forum like you say you have, then you should know that there is no way in the world that you can even attempt R while she's still in the A. R is only possible if she is truly remorseful, and that means she's empathic to your feelings, not just hers. And a truly remorseful WS will want to regain your trust and do anything to rebuild trust with you. That means being transparent in everything she does. Is she doing this? Or do you simply believe she does?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you checking the phone records? Do you have a keylogger on her computer?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

jnj express said:


> You are not doing the one thing that could/would/may help you the most
> 
> You need to tell Mary what has been going on
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

From your first post and insinuating comments about there being more, your wife gets a thrill from cuckolding you than the actual sex she has with the OM. She cuckold you in plain sight of others during those get togethers with the OM and his wife and later on those nights when she was in bed with you.

What are you going to do if they're still in contact with one another? If recent history is a predictor, you'll do nothing of true consequence but simply rant and rave like a 3 year old. Eventually your wife will lose all respect for you - if she hasn't done so already - and will no longer fear you leaving her and when that happens, she'll openly cuckold you. You'll be getting sloppy seconds - that is if you aren't getting them right now.

I hope I'm wrong, for your sake.


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> So what have you done to verify that there is indeed NC?
> 
> A. R is only possible if she is truly remorseful, and that means she's empathic to your feelings, not just hers. And a truly remorseful WS will want to regain your trust and do anything to rebuild trust with you. That means being transparent in everything she does. Is she doing this? Or do you simply believe she does?


Yes, we did the No Contact letter last year. But, she gave it to him. (This happened before I read about how it should be handled). 

As far as her being empathetic to my feelings... no she is not. We are now in the 10th day of our stand off (not talking). So, Im ready to do a 180 and make my life busy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Come up with some 'requirements' for your marriage. In my marriage, we do not...

Show her your list. Tell her that - with a little wiggle room - this is the marriage you want, and if she doesn't want to go along for the ride, you'll help her pack.

She needs to see some backbone.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

jnj express said:


> *You are not doing the one thing that could/would/may help you the most
> 
> You need to tell Mary what has been going on*


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing I don't understand is that even after all this went down, you STIL hung out with John and his wife, Mary at their "parties" multiple times.

Why??? 

Your wife giving you the silent treatment is childish. 

Tell her it ends with him or you're done. Yes, those are the two options. Unless you want to stick around in an open marriage.

This entire story is sickening.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

turnera said:


> Come up with some 'requirements' for your marriage. In my marriage, we do not...
> 
> Show her your list. Tell her that - with a little wiggle room - this is the marriage you want, and if she doesn't want to go along for the ride, you'll help her pack.
> 
> She needs to see some backbone.


Greatness. Simple but this is it.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Lets see....... Art Vandelay .......... Jerry Seinfeld ....... smells like grad student!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

kenmoore14217 said:


> Lets see....... Art Vandelay .......... Jerry Seinfeld ....... smells like grad student!


Yup


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## vandelay (Jun 27, 2011)

kenmoore14217 said:


> Lets see....... Art Vandelay .......... Jerry Seinfeld ....... smells like grad student!


Hi Kenmoore,

You are correct... it is named after Seinfeld... but no... not a grad student. I definetly see how people come to the same conclusion you did though. Im thinkin about editing my original post so that people will take it more seriously. I just wanted people to understand how we got to this point and my intimate thoughts through this whole process. 

Ya know, people in this forum say things so flippantly, not having any comprehension of my life. If you knew me in real life, and I told you this story... you would say you didnt believe it. I am as straight laced as they come. As a matter of fact, we really have lived dual lives the last 4 years. Most of my family and long term friends dont know John and Mary.

Its been a rough couple years. Only 3 people know the whole sordid tale (my wife and I, and our therapist) Im glad this is anonymous and I can unload. I havent even told my closest friends. Thats the toughest part. Anyway... I have receieved some good advice in the last couple days... Im greatful for that.

Van


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

Don't take it the wrong way, dude. Its just that its totally inconceivable that this got to the point of where it is- presently- without you putting the brakes on it. Then, you go on to describe it in what another poster has opined as salacious. Furthermore, you kept on hanging around these people. As a BS myself, there is no way I would've let this go on the way it has- RIGHT UNDER YOUR NOSE. First, if you've read my thread, I would've implemented a "scorched earth" policy of laying into her like HELL; then I would've opened up a can of "whup ass" on John right in front of his wife, while telling her that he just ****ed my wife. Maybe I'm going a bit overboard here, but that's just me. At least do something other than just sit around and wait for the next time you find them together again. As of right now- You're a getting cuckolded by your wife and neighbor... MAN UP!


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

Dare I say it... TROLL???


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## cherrypie18 (Feb 21, 2010)

This thread reminds me of that one huge thread where the OP's wife would not stop contacting the other men and getting in their cars.. and even though he got a zillion responses and advice, he still wasn't sure what to do... I forgot his username. 



Why would a person spend so much time and effort to come up with a fake "novel" and post on a forum??


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why was 'Gay Girl in Damascus' an American guy?

But seriously, vandelay, what are you going to do? Are you going to tell Mary?


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