# Can't STAND the thought of having to writer her checks for the next 20 years



## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

How do you get past that??? The thought of giving her money for 20 years just pisses me off to no end.

In my case, child support would cut in half in 5 years and go away completely in 8. Alimony is a crap shoot and when I sit and think I'll be giving her money every payday....well...it's just enough to make me stay and be miserable.

I think there is zero chance she'd re-marry anytime soon. And I know the system is supposed to be fair but I also know I could be ordered to pay alimony to her forever. Been married 20+ years.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Not necessarily. Alimony is usually for 5 years or less (or so I've read). And child support ends at what age 18?

Where are you getting 20 years from? Your kids aren't babies.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Alimony in Florida is for life - unless you can negotiate a shorter term.

Should alimony laws be changed?


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I have followed your threads, beach, and I feel bad for you. I guess growing up in an almost non alimony state has shaped my opinion. I believe alimony is only for extreme cases. 

I would suggest talking to an attorney and finding out if alimony can only be given for a short time while she gets back in the workforce. Surely she is going to have to get a job. Do you know the laws in your state?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

tennisstar said:


> I have followed your threads, beach, and I feel bad for you. I guess growing up in an almost non alimony state has shaped my opinion. I believe alimony is only for extreme cases.
> 
> I would suggest talking to an attorney and finding out if alimony can only be given for a short time while she gets back in the workforce. Surely she is going to have to get a job. Do you know the laws in your state?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


All the lawyers I've talked to say the same thing; it's an unknown. Either the two sides lawyers negotiate it or it goes to the judge and he/she makes the decision. And while common sense dictates they would not order it long term, the possibility that they could is also true.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> Not necessarily. Alimony is usually for 5 years or less (or so I've read). And child support ends at what age 18?
> 
> Where are you getting 20 years from? Your kids aren't babies.


Wasn't talking about child support. I know exactly how much that will be. Talking only about alimony. In FL, it could be for any length of time.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

BeachGuy said:


> How do you get past that??? The thought of giving her money for 20 years just pisses me off to no end.
> 
> In my case, child support would cut in half in 5 years and go away completely in 8. Alimony is a crap shoot and when I sit and think I'll be giving her money every payday....well...it's just enough to make me stay and be miserable.
> 
> I think there is zero chance she'd re-marry anytime soon. And I know the system is supposed to be fair but I also know I could be ordered to pay alimony to her forever. Been married 20+ years.


Do you have to pay alimony if you're legally seperated not divorced? I can see why you wouldn't want to divorce in this situation, not that it makes things easier as you want to be completely free of her.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Well if it's any consolation, most states have determined that lifetime alimony awards are unfair and outdated and have passed legislation that favors shorter term awards, and there's a bill pending in Florida according to the link you posted.

Even if it doesn't pass in the near future, it probably will somewhere down the line. 

It's not much but hey it's something.

Odds are you'll settle your case before trial and you'll know what you're in for.



A Bit Much said:


> Do you have to pay alimony if you're legally seperated not divorced? I can see why you wouldn't want to divorce in this situation, not that it makes things easier as you want to be completely free of her.


Yes the courts can order temporary , or "pendente-lite" support.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Alimony in Florida is for life - unless you can negotiate a shorter term.


Ouch. Sorry Beachguy that stinks.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Yes the courts can order temporary , or "pendente-lite" support.


Well that sucks.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> Well that sucks.


What's even worse is that more often than not, any temporary support paid prior to the filing of a divorce action is not usually counted towards the total amount to be ordered.

Courts tend to go back to the start of the divorce action when giving credit for spousal support payments but like anything else this can vary too.

The biggest problem is negotiating a settlement is that you really don't know what a court may do, so it's like the "Lets Make a Deal" of your life.. do you take door number 1 or take your chances on door number 2, having no clue what's behind it?


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

New Jersey still has lifetime alimony in certain cases. The thinking is that if the woman has more than 20 year old skills and has had no work experience for the same 20+ years, she gave up what she could have had to the advantage of her family. She is now unemployable so as the head of the family, he owes her support whether they live together or not.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

BeachGuy said:


> How do you get past that??? The thought of giving her money for 20 years just pisses me off to no end.
> 
> In my case, child support would cut in half in 5 years and go away completely in 8. Alimony is a crap shoot and when I sit and think I'll be giving her money every payday....well...it's just enough to make me stay and be miserable.
> 
> I think there is zero chance she'd re-marry anytime soon. And I know the system is supposed to be fair but I also know I could be ordered to pay alimony to her forever. Been married 20+ years.


Why not move to a non-alimony state and then divorce?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

southern wife said:


> Why not move to a non-alimony state and then divorce?


I thought about that too but there are kids involved. I live near 2 other states so this is a common thing where I live. People establish residency in a bordering state because where I live you have to prove fault to get a divorce unless both parties agree to it.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Do you have to pay alimony if you're legally seperated not divorced? I can see why you wouldn't want to divorce in this situation, not that it makes things easier as you want to be completely free of her.


There is no such thing as a legal separation in Florida.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

kindi said:


> The biggest problem is negotiating a settlement is that you really don't know what a court may do, so it's like the "Lets Make a Deal" of your life.. do you take door number 1 or take your chances on door number 2, having no clue what's behind it?


This is exactly my point. Is it worth the crapshoot.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

your biting your nose off to spite your face with your logic.



instead think of it as the price of happiness. rool the dice you might be plesently suprised and if not the karma buss will come into play.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> instead think of it as the price of happiness. rool the dice you might be plesently suprised and if not the karma buss will come into play.


I've yet to meet someone in real life who is divorced male or female that regrets it. Most are just happy to be free of the misery that drove them there in the first place regardless of the 'cost'.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

I don't know your story, but don't let this stop you for one second if you want out.

I'd gladly give up my house and go live in a 1BR apartment to leave a complete shyte marriage. Mine isn't quite there yet.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> This is exactly my point. Is it worth the crapshoot.


I've been down this road. 

It comes down to what sort of a settlement you can agree on. 

If she's completely unreasonable and won't entertain any offers other than what you might get in a worst case scenario, then it probably pays to leave it to the courts. If she comes back with numbers that are somewhere in the middle of your comfort zone based on your own research and expectations as to what a court might do, then it probably pays to settle, and you'll save on legal expenses too. Factor those legal expenses into whatever support amount she's asking for, you just might come out ahead by settling for a slightly large support amount. 

Who knows maybe she'll ask for less support than you think she will, and it will be an easy decision to make.

You have nothing to lose by trying to get this done through mediation and working together in a civil way and a lot to lose by going the way of a heavily contested highly litigated divorce.

At some point you'll either settle or come to the conclusion that she's so unrealistic that it makes sense to roll the dice with the courts.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> I don't know your story, but don't let this stop you for one second if you want out.
> 
> I'd gladly give up my house and go live in a 1BR apartment to leave a complete shyte marriage. Mine isn't quite there yet.


Wouldn't bother me either. But I really don't want to be handing her money 20 years from now either.

Honestly, in all likelihood, it wouldn't be terrible. She has a degree, worked for 8 years after we got married until we had our first kid. It's been 13 years since she worked but all she ever did was clerical type stuff which she certainly still has the skills to do today.

But...there's no guarantees on anything.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

BeachGuy said:


> Wouldn't bother me either. But I really don't want to be handing her money 20 years from now either.
> 
> Honestly, in all likelihood, it wouldn't be terrible. She has a degree, worked for 8 years after we got married until we had our first kid. It's been 13 years since she worked but all she ever did was clerical type stuff which she certainly still has the skills to do today.
> 
> But...there's no guarantees on anything.


From your other posts, it sounds like she has refused to work. Have you demanded she work or you will divorce her? If you could get her to get a job before divorcing her, that would show she was capable of working. 

I can't understand lifetime alimony. Unless one is disabled or mentally ill, why can't one work? Now maybe one cannot make as much money as desired, but hey, join the crowd! I can't fathom working hard to give most of my money away. If I were you, I would be tempted to take a crap job just to pay less. Child support is your responsibility, but she is not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Sorry, BeachGuy. I guess I'm on the other side of your problem. My situation is a lot different from your wife's though. But, I'm wondering about something. Do you know approximately how much you will be paying her? Would your wife be able to live on that? Perhaps a reduction in her living standard would push her back to work.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

tennisstar said:


> I can't understand lifetime alimony. Unless one is disabled or mentally ill, why can't one work? Now maybe one cannot make as much money as desired, but hey, join the crowd! I can't fathom working hard to give most of my money away. If I were you, I would be tempted to take a crap job just to pay less. Child support is your responsibility, but she is not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The problem is that some people are not qualified to make enough money to support themselves. They could work all their waking hours and still not make enough. Older women with no job skills fall into this category. Alimony makes up the difference so they can rent an apartment and buy food. Otherwise they would be on government assistance and remember it is the government that runs the family court system.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Sooooooooooo.... what if you "unofficially" separate? I did that in Florida. No court, just what ex and I agreed on for child support. And it was called child support. Has she done any homework/research about divorce law in Florida? 

I eventually moved to TX.... where you can establish residency in 3 mos. and if separated for 3 years can divorce easily. That's not WHY I moved here.... but it worked out well.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> The problem is that some people are not qualified to make enough money to support themselves. They could work all their waking hours and still not make enough. Older women with no job skills fall into this category. Alimony makes up the difference so they can rent an apartment and buy food. Otherwise they would be on government assistance and remember it is the government that runs the family court system.


I guess I feel like that is the problem of the people who can't support themselves. It sounds like beach's wife knows he is unhappy (from hid other threads). If I was a SAHM and I knew my husband was unhappy, I had better get out and find a job. I understand alimony for a year or two until she's established, but her whole life? Ridiculous. Totally punishing the person who works. 

Some people feel strongly about staying home with kids. That's fine. Buy they have to be ready to face the consequences if they ever divorce. 

I was divorced and had made little income. I had only worked in the school office and believe me, the salary didn't even cover childcare. After my divorce, I moved to the city and struggled to move upwards in my new job for years. I received no alimony or child support ( child support was ordered but never paid. Court wouldnt enforce). My child and I struggled for years. But finally, we came through it. Today, I make almost 6 figures. 

I always figure if I have to get up and go to work each day, why should somebody stay home and think they deserve the same things I have. Anyways, guess this subject just touches on a pet peeve in mine, people wanting something without working.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

Let me see if I’m smart enough to respond to all the questions with various quotes.



tennisstar said:


> From your other posts, it sounds like she has refused to work. Have you demanded she work or you will divorce her?


Now that she’s very well aware I’m planning on filing, it would be dumb of her to go get a job before the alimony amount is established. I’m sure her parents have informed her to not get a job. As for taking a crap job…I can’t do that either. I have two kids to support. Plus as I understand it, judges don’t play that game. They’d see I’ve made good money all my life and would easily figure out I took a lower paying job just for the divorce. I know of a man (in FL) who was fired from a six figure job, his wife kicked him out and filed, and he was ordered to pay based on what he “used to make” before losing his job. While he was unemployed.



827Aug said:


> Do you know approximately how much you will be paying her? Would your wife be able to live on that? Perhaps a reduction in her living standard would push her back to work.


I know what I’d be paying in child support but no idea on alimony. Completely depends on if we could mediate or what the judge decides. But yes, she would get enough to live off of. Somewhere close to $3,000 a month probably. As for her reducing her standards…the way the law reads is she gets enough to “maintain the standard of living” she’s had up until the divorce. Real fair, huh?



SunnyT said:


> Sooooooooooo.... what if you "unofficially" separate? I did that in Florida. No court, just what ex and I agreed on for child support. And it was called child support. Has she done any homework/research about divorce law in Florida?


Tried that already. I supported two households for three months and she would not agree to split my paycheck so we could keep it that way. I can’t afford to perpetually support two places so I had to go back home. She doesn’t want to divorce and will do pretty much anything to prevent it, which includes not agreeing to anything. Anytime I asked her about it she’d just say “I don’t want to divorce”. If I forced the issue and just re-directed my paycheck to my account and only give her half, then I risk a judge hitting me with abandonment down the road.



tennisstar said:


> I always figure if I have to get up and go to work each day, why should somebody stay home and think they deserve the same things I have.


I couldn’t agree with you more. I had no problem her staying home when we had babies but we both always said she’d go back to work once they were in school all day. She “likes being a SAHM”. Duh…who wouldn’t. What I don’t get is why she thinks she’s so special. Every woman in her family and mine always worked. She graduated from college but she sees the world through the eyes of a teenager. Thinks it’s her lot in life to be taken care of without having to give anything in return. Just like my kids. Would be different if she did all the things a SAHM is supposed to do like take care of ME, the house, meals, etc. She doesn't do crap.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

No offense, but the way I see it, you're likely on the hook for supporting her one way or the other. Either you stay in the marriage and house with here and she sponges off you indirectly, or you live separately from her and you cut a check for her every month. The advantage to the second one is you get a chance to rebuild your life.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

BeachGuy said:


> I know what I’d be paying in child support but no idea on alimony. Completely depends on if we could mediate or what the judge decides. But yes, she would get enough to live off of. Somewhere close to $3,000 a month probably. As for her reducing her standards…the way the law reads is she gets enough to “maintain the standard of living” she’s had up until the divorce. Real fair, huh?


That's not entirely the case. The amount of alimony can't exceed a certain percentage. I get $3000 monthly for alimony and $800 monthly in child support. I'm definitely not enjoying my previous standard of living. I can get by, but it's a tight budget now. 



BeachGuy said:


> If I forced the issue and just re-directed my paycheck to my account and only give her half, then I risk a judge hitting me with abandonment down the road.


From what I've gone through, abandonment is a nil factor in Florida. My estranged husband walked out and left me with everything (including all the bills) and no money. Giving her half of your paycheck is more than fair. She's not going to get anymore than that in alimony and child support.

Do you have an attorney? I'm not familiar with the details in your situation. However, I am in Florida and offer insight as to what I've encountered in the courts. Good luck finding something workable.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

PBear said:


> No offense, but the way I see it, you're likely on the hook for supporting her one way or the other. Either you stay in the marriage and house with here and she sponges off you indirectly, or you live separately from her and you cut a check for her every month. The advantage to the second one is you get a chance to rebuild your life.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A man with a clear view of reality. In my humble opinion, the only reason to proceed with option 2 is when you are ready to get remarried. Stop by the court and pick up your divorce papers then go to another floor and get your new marriage license


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Sorry, I accidentally put my thoughts in quotes above.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

What about trading marital assets in exchange for reductions in alimony? i.e. you give up more than you should now in exchange for lower or shorter duration alimony payments. She may jump at that. It gives her a little more security up front. 

It means it will take you longer to rebuild your personal net worth however at least more of what you're earning is going towards your assets rather than going to her lifestyle.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

MaritimeGuy said:


> What about trading marital assets in exchange for reductions in alimony? i.e. you give up more than you should now in exchange for lower or shorter duration alimony payments. She may jump at that. It gives her a little more security up front.
> 
> It means it will take you longer to rebuild your personal net worth however at least more of what you're earning is going towards your assets rather than going to her lifestyle.


I tried that too. Gave her two options with the house and length of alimony. Long story short she got the opinions of lawyers in another state who are friends of her family and they pretty much said h*ll no and wanted me to sign my life over to her. That's why I backed off on uncontested and will file contested this time. I tried to play nice. She just stalls and says "I don't want to get divorced". Of course she doesn't....she has it made (other than putting up with me).


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

A couple I know is splitting up. She's a self employed professional, he was just forcibly retired from his corporate job. She's going after half of his pension. She'll get it too. Also she was on his health plan so its likely he'll have to pay to insure her too even though he has only expensive COBRA coverage now. She cheated on him, got caught.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

BeachGuy said:


> I tried that too. Gave her two options with the house and length of alimony. Long story short she got the opinions of lawyers in another state who are friends of her family and they pretty much said h*ll no and wanted me to sign my life over to her. That's why I backed off on uncontested and will file contested this time. I tried to play nice. She just stalls and says "I don't want to get divorced". Of course she doesn't....she has it made (other than putting up with me).


Unfortunately, you are just going to have to go through this and try to get your best deal. This is sad, and I just can't imagine giving an ex part of my paycheck. Women like this make me angry! They feel so entitled and I just can't understand it. 

At least divorce her and get your life back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> I tried that too. Gave her two options with the house and length of alimony. Long story short she got the opinions of lawyers in another state who are friends of her family and they pretty much said h*ll no and wanted me to sign my life over to her. That's why I backed off on uncontested and will file contested this time. I tried to play nice. She just stalls and says "I don't want to get divorced". Of course she doesn't....she has it made (other than putting up with me).


You have certainly done your research and considered all your options. 

The biggest problem here is that you want the divorce and she doesn't, and if the court awards her legal fees, you are going to be in for a long expensive fight and she has no reason to settle for anything.

Eventually it will be over but you might have to give her more than would be considered even remotely fair. 



Runs like Dog said:


> A couple I know is splitting up. She's a self employed professional, he was just forcibly retired from his corporate job. She's going after half of his pension. She'll get it too.


She'll get it because the laws in most states are clear on splitting the retirement assets obtained during the marriage regardless of whose "fault" it was that the marriage failed. At the same time if she put any money aside for retirement, he'd be entitled to half of that.

Hey at least she's employed.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Alimony in Florida is for life - unless you can negotiate a shorter term.
> 
> Should alimony laws be changed?


Maybe they should name this the "let's cut down the number of people who murder their spouses instead of divorcing act."


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Dave Foley (kids in the hall) has a clip on YouTube about the insane Canadian child support laws. They are determined at the point of separation and can never go down even if they exceed your current income.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Dave Foley (kids in the hall) has a clip on YouTube about the insane Canadian child support laws. They are determined at the point of separation and can never go down even if they exceed your current income.


I wish. My ex voluntarily quit his 85000 a year job and successfully got child support to $197 a month.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Pfft. I'd quit working until after the divorce was finalized, even if it meant sleeping in a cardboard box for a year.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> I tried that too. Gave her two options with the house and length of alimony. Long story short she got the opinions of lawyers in another state who are friends of her family and they pretty much said h*ll no and wanted me to sign my life over to her. That's why I backed off on uncontested and will file contested this time. I tried to play nice. She just stalls and says "I don't want to get divorced". Of course she doesn't....she has it made (other than putting up with me).


Sorry to hear that. I hold lawyers largely to blame for a lot of this. No one wants to give up something they're entitled to. Some lawyers take advantage of this sentiment and tell their clients they're entitled to more than is reasonable to make sure there is a long drawn out court battle. If you settle with something reasonable out of court they don't stand to make near as much in fee's. It really sucks when you're trying to be reasonable and the other side is not.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

golfergirl said:


> I wish. My ex voluntarily quit his 85000 a year job and successfully got child support to $197 a month.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Some people let their emotions get the best of them and in their anger do things that hurt everyone...including themselves.


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