# Want to Believe



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

To make a long story short, my husband posted on here back in December. I was blindsided by his 3 month affair. I brought up the topic that I thought we were in a rut many times and that we needed to work on things. He always said that he did not think we were that bad....then I took a trip for 4 weeks to be with a dying relative and the OW came out for 5 days (from another state). They had been talking for almost 2 months prior to my trip. If I was not preoccupied with thoughts of my relative, I would have seen the signs then. The night I came back I was hit with Divorce talk. I was floored. Then the next day my husband said he was sorry and that he was breaking it off w/other woman. He was an emotional wreck in his own mind and went back and forth between what he wanted. Only a few days before Christmas he decided to stay...however, I found out that he was telling me he loved me but was texting her that he missed her but that he needed her help to break it off. I was broken yet again. Then on January 3rd, things took a turn and the OW was still lookiing me up on the computer. Hubby flipped out and said that was it - he was done - he was not going to let her threaten his family anymore and that he was stupid and now saw her for what she really was. He sent her a final email telling her he was done and that he was going to fix his marriage and dedicate himself to his one true love, his wife. He told her that he saved everything she sent him (revealing pictures) too (she tried contacting me several times to tell me that she had hundreds of pages of text that I should see and emails they sent - so she saved everything), and that he was not threatening her, but should not ever try to contact him or me ever again. She replied back with pictures, trying to indicate that she tried to slit her wrists (looked like fingernail scratches - an attempt to get a response), and then he deleated the email account so she had no way to contact him anymore (phone numbers were changed). He told me that he made a complete 180 after this, and he has started to show some effection towards me again after I pointed out that I was lacking the same things he was in our marriage, but never dreamed of going outside of it. We can't talk about it, or he gets angry, and thinks we are taking a step back. It kills me not to be able to talk about it sometimes because it all caught me completely off guard. I want to believe he is on the road to recovery and that he can get through this without talking about it. I am swalliing my pride and biting my tongue to try to get through the days. Some days are good, but some days it is tough for me and I have a lingering doubt like he is going to run when the going gets tough. Considering the circumstances, I think I have handled it pretty well. We both work out more now and have plans for a couple of vacations this year. We realize that we need to spend more time with each other instead of just with the children. My question - can we really move past this without never talking about it again (I said we would not have to, but if she EVER popped into the picture for whatever reason - mail, email, in person), that he would have to let me know immediately. He just had an STD test done (one of my stipulations I would not budge on). He has bought me several things after I told him that if he gave me just 25% of the effort that he gave the OW we could start to move forward....but it is still awkward at times. I know it will take time.....is this normal for moving forward? I am not won over by material things, but want to believe the actions are a start. However, after so many times he went back and forth, could this be real and long term? I want to believe. I can't deal with one more switch. I won't. I don't believe in giving up on someone you love, so I am doing everything in my power I can. From all indications (I have become a detective), I don't see that there has been any further contact since the last email. Am I wrong to still be nervous? Could that really have been it and we are good just to work on us? Sorry this is so much. He sent me his original link when he sought out advice....to get a better idea, you can read his thread to. I appreciate your thoughts and experience in advance! http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/36942-need-advice.html


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

And let me also point out - I am not naive. I blame him 100%, but I do hate her too for adding to it and not considering that he was a married man with children and a wife of 15 years. I love him - he is my husband and the father of my children. I wanted a life with him. I never would have had children if I thought we would ever divorce. For better or worse. I just need to know that the worst is behind us. I am strong, but I am broken and can't deal with the crap anymore. It has to be done. I think he looks at me differently a little now - maybe I was not so bad before. One would have to believe that to justify an affair though, right? I am not out of shape and take care of myself, but work from home so I don't have to get dressed up every day - just open my laptop. I spend all extra money on home stuff and the girls. My priorities have always been my family, but now I need the love. I feel like I have been pushed to the edge and now I need him to step up big.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

for starters read my newbie link in my signature

next you need the following to have a successful R

1) NC- no contact with the OW- in fact he should hand write a letter to her that you can read and agree to and send it by registered mail. If she ever contacts him again then he must ignore it and tell you of it right away. Block her number from you and your husband's phones, facebook, email etc. Also if she is married or has a bf then tell him about right away. (I would say to not tell your husband you are doing this but he is likely reading this)

2) Your husband needs to be completely transparent- get all of his passwords, emails, phone, texts, etc. He must tell you where he is going and has been, etc. You should also continue to spy and don't feel guilty about it, verification not only helps you identify if the affair is continuing but helps you heal if you find nothing.

3) Your husband must show true remorse. The affair is 100% all his to own. He must do what it takes to help you heal which is a long process. He must not trickle truth, blameshift, gaslight or blame you for the affair. 

4) get to a doctor and both have std testing, also look into anti-depressants or anti-anxiety pills to help you thru the most stressful time for your life.

5) spend more one on one time together, 10-15 hours a week. Rekindle your bond and start talking to each other openly.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

wow the OW sounds like a peach to deal with. I do not think that he can work this out with out a MC or IC. I have spent years trying to deal with my H's affair alone and it has killed me. My H never got help either and reaffended (if you will).

It sounds like your husband does not want to face what happened and deal with it. I do not believe in cold turkey self help ideals(well not anymore). Hiding from it and thinking that working on things is a step back because it keeps everything in the front of ones mind is a mistake. He and you need help to recover.

You need to see someone to. Get into MC and IC and read the forum stickys. Start with you. Take care of your self first. 

and get a restrainning order if she keeps at her manipulations (faking suicid is creepy and wrong and does a major disservice to thoes who are really there. It makes people not believe them)
Infact take the pictures of this suicide attempt down to the police station and report that she is suicidal. They will check on her and if she is full of it then it will most likely end if she is seriously in need of help she will get it and it won't be from you or your husband. plus it puts it on the record that she has been harrassing you and your husband through trying to manipulate you and will help a restrainning order be granted because her bs will be public record.

Please just get some help "cold turkey self help" alone will not do you a bit of good...well that is my opinion from my experiance.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Thank you both. I have talked alot about it to friends and family...I am not keeping it inside, but it still hurts like no other. The thing about her - my husband was the one still pursuing her - and her responding back to make him jealous - that she is with other guys - he is going to buy her a ring and has a $100k sports car, blah, blah) - he could have stopped cold turkey but did not when he said he would), so that is null and void. At this point, I can only believe that there has been no contact. It kills me though....I think the affair itself was horrible, but I almost think the lies and going back and forth are what have caused me so much more pain. Yes - she sure is a peach - very psycho and self centered, but then again, my husband sought out his own needs/wants/desires without even trying to fix things or considering me or our children. I want to believe that he wants to fix things - he is making some motions to do so, but it is still hard. I know men are wired differently. May sound stupid (and sometimes I hate him and get so angry because I feel he should be the one bending over backwards to fix everything), but I know that I have to give him some space or I may push him over the edge. My intentions are not to hurt him (even though at times I had wished he got hit by a bus). Any man who cheated out there willing to share what you went through - anything similar - how did you deal with the fallout and healing process after. Did you go back and forth before you made your final decision? Did it take you a long time to get your head on straight and OW out of your mind?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

"We can't talk about it, or he gets angry, and thinks we are taking a step back."

I read his post

, "To my wife I pledge my heart and what i have left of a soul to you and you deserve to do whatever you wish with them. Ive hurt you and treated you bad. I dont deserve you but Im going to make US work if you want that too!

Guess it does help to talk even if its on a computer with strangers!!! "

WTH - 

You said, "My question - can we really move past this without never talking about it again"

He cheated, yet he dictates the rules of not talking about it. I would be yelling, hey ****weed, we will talk about it until I am satisfied, and oh dear ****weed, if I asked the same questions over and over and over again for the next two hundred years, you will answer me. I would yell futher and say, my sweet ****weed, tell me, what gives you the right to be angry and not talk about this?

Dear ****weed, we will talk about it when I want to talk about it, period. Yes you treated me bad and you continue to treat me bad by getting angry after you betrayed me. You have no right, none whatsoever, to get angry.

Tell your WS that his 20 + years of defending his country is no match for a guy (me) who has spent over 36+ years defending his and if he was in my unit I put a size 11 boot up his ass for what he has done. Tell him I am one pissed off Master Sergeant for the way he is acting. 

Your WS wrote, "YES! TIME TO BE A MAN AGAIN." 

My advise to him would be to give you what you want and be a man about. A wussy gets angry because they are not getting what they want. At this point your WS is not a man but a wuss.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Read his thread. He's not really serious or remorseful. He's playing you right now.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

No, you cannot get over it and move forward without talking about it openly and honestly, and for you to be able to talk about it whenever questions crop up. It is the only way to remove the hurt from your mind. I am in a similar situation. My man cheated, I found out some time after it was 'finished' and we both love each other very much. He did a lot of the hard work with me right after it 1st came out, we talked, I questioned, and the questions diminished. But we got to a point where he stopped answering, stopped talking. Said we'd gone over it enough times and it was now time to move on. We hadn't even gone through it that many times. Different aspects of it, less questions each time, about 5 times, maybe more. It was around 2 months when he stopped talking. I believe it was a point/question which I got to where he doesn't want to go down that rd. And he clammed up. Stopped talking. And we have been in this state of limbo for 6 months now. He has left me unable to move forward by not allowing me to talk about it anymore. And thus I don't trust him. And thus the questions remain. And I believe he is hiding the truth from me. We are now very close to the edge. We are now moments from the end. Due in part to my need to get issues out. I cannot, ever, brush under the carpet. And so I am very unhappy he won't allow me to talk, & I remain suspicious about what he has told me about the affair. Though he has suggested MC which pleased me greatly, I wanted it to come from him. It wasn't me dragging him along. He only suggested it though after I sent an answer him an article I found online to a woman going through similar issues. I think it said about MC in that, but I was pointing out that the woman cannot move forward til her husband comes completely clean. And that he needs to as it is damaging to not give me the brutal truth about his thoughts and feelings. I told him to read. He did.

It is impossible to rebuild a close & loving relationship, with trust, from a position of being unable to talk about something so major. And about something that they have done! They wronged us! They shld be happy to go over & over it with us, with patience & understanding, until we no longer want to or need to. And by God, it will not be forever! You get fed up of it yourself. You can only go over something so many times before it becomes a pointless exercise. I believe mine and yours, they don't go over it because they are hiding the reality of the situation. Why else would you not? It is not to mend the situation is it. They are hiding things.

It is not about them. It is about us. We did NOT cause the problem, and yet we are willing to find a solution with them! Yet they are not! How does that work? I think maybe he is unwilling to shares his true feelings with you, because that will leave him a single man (I have read his post, I believe he thinks he has fallen out of love with you & in love (is he still in love with the bunny boiler) with her. And that he and her are fated to be together. I think he is blinded by lust and that once he realises their excitement will fade he will desperately regret & want u back) He is deluded by the lust of a new relationship.


"but I know that I have to give him some space or I may push him over the edge"

You are allowing him to remain torn and wishy washy. U need to be firm with him. Decide what you want out of the future of your marriage, how you are going to get it, and put it to him in no uncertain terms. Stand firm. The less work he puts in, the more you give him space to 'decide', the less respect he will have for you and his marriage. And if he cannot stand the OW anymore, it is only a matter of time before another one comes and takes her place. The more he has to fight for you and his marriage, the more he will value it and the less likely he will repeat this episode. Make him fight for it, because then you will see what he really truly wants too...hopefully.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Remains said:


> No, you cannot get over it and move forward without talking about it openly and honestly, and for you to be able to talk about it whenever questions crop up. It is the only way to remove the hurt from your mind. I am in a similar situation. My man cheated, I found out some time after it was 'finished' and we both love each other very much. He did a lot of the hard work with me right after it 1st came out, we talked, I questioned, and the questions diminished. But we got to a point where he stopped answering, stopped talking. Said we'd gone over it enough times and it was now time to move on. We hadn't even gone through it that many times. Different aspects of it, less questions each time, about 5 times, maybe more. It was around 2 months when he stopped talking. I believe it was a point/question which I got to where he doesn't want to go down that rd. And he clammed up. Stopped talking. And we have been in this state of limbo for 6 months now. He has left me unable to move forward by not allowing me to talk about it anymore. And thus I don't trust him. And thus the questions remain. And I believe he is hiding the truth from me. We are now very close to the edge. We are now moments from the end. Due in part to my need to get issues out. I cannot, ever, brush under the carpet. And so I am very unhappy he won't allow me to talk, & I remain suspicious about what he has told me about the affair. Though he has suggested MC which pleased me greatly, I wanted it to come from him. It wasn't me dragging him along. He only suggested it though after I sent an answer him an article I found online to a woman going through similar issues. I think it said about MC in that, but I was pointing out that the woman cannot move forward til her husband comes completely clean. And that he needs to as it is damaging to not give me the brutal truth about his thoughts and feelings. I told him to read. He did.
> 
> It is impossible to rebuild a close & loving relationship, with trust, from a position of being unable to talk about something so major. And about something that they have done! They wronged us! They shld be happy to go over & over it with us, with patience & understanding, until we no longer want to or need to. And by God, it will not be forever! You get fed up of it yourself. You can only go over something so many times before it becomes a pointless exercise. I believe mine and yours, they don't go over it because they are hiding the reality of the situation. Why else would you not? It is not to mend the situation is it. They are hiding things.
> 
> ...


Yeah this pretty much sums it up. He probably hasn't told you everything and you can't heal without his coming clean. You do have a right and a need to talk to him about what he did and why, over and over again; for as long as necessary. You have suffered great harm from these two sneaky, selfish people and he owes you the truth. If he wants this marriage he will start talking, and if you want it, you will require that he does. It is very likely to happen again if his behaviors and motives goes unexamined by him. My H gave half truths for nearly a year, and when I asked questions he often had a memory problem.He started talking when I made plans to move out. He could not understand the harm he had done to our marriage until he was forced to see it through my eyes and those of an IC. Even with complete honesty it is an uphill battle to repair a relationship that has been damaged by betrayal. Only about a third survive, and those that do, do so as a result of damned hard work and soul searching on the part of both people. You cannot do this by yourself while he waits in regal spender for you to " just get over it".


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Besides explicit details (which I can and do imagine...I know what a new relationship is like - I had one 16 years ago and was blown away), I know pretty much the whole picture. I have seen and heard more than a spouse probably would want to know. I know it got flirty fast and exploded from there. I know that she fed his ego very well, send him hundrends of reminders, songs, pictures of herself even before they met up for the physical affair. I know that he saw no going back, so planned to marry her right after he divorced me. She was going to move out to where we are 6 months later. I know that he has been soulless and hateful to me - she has tried to talk to me on multiple occasions - posted nasty grams on my fathers facebook page, called my mother-in-law, and found work emails. I have never responded, don't care to, and I know it ticks her off. There is nothing she can say that will hurt me - it is all on him. He did this. I do hate her for playing her role, and can't understand why he defended her, still wanted her, etc, after he saw her nastiness come out and just for the fact that she was ok with breaking up a family. My husband has never been one to talk about his feelings when it gets tough. When his dad died 3 years ago, he completely shut down on me, and the last 3 years have been the toughest - not for my lack of trying. I know this is killing him too, but I need to know that in the end it is for the reasons it should. I guess that is what pains me - all I can do is take his word and try to put my heart out there, but I will not take any more backsliding. I am in this too, and for the right reasons. I know talking about it or not, he has feelings to get over, even though he said he is completely done. Let me share you the last email (as far as I know) that he sent her. After that, she threatened to slit her wrists by sending a picture of a scalpal, sent some pictures of scratched wrists and said the scalpal was too dull...now, if she really wanted to do it......anyway, just another one of her games that she has been playing and he falling - hopefully this did it...here is the email - please tell me your thoughts... (it all came about one day when she tried contacting me through a social network. I told him about it. We had been working on us (as far as I knew) but when I told him, he told me that he had been texting her again to try and break it off slow so neither of them hurt. He had 2 bins of military awards that he had recieved over his 20 years active duty, and took out his anger on that (thus the picture he took - he knew her from the army too so she knew the importance of them).... "(name) it has all been crazy and today I opened my eyes to see what you really are. The photo is of every army award I was ever given that meant something to me. I destroyed them all the same way I did my life when I met you. I dishonored everything a true veteran could and today I dishonored my word to my wife my true love for the last time! I felt something for you and wanted to ease your pain and mine. I contacted you to talk to you and you decided to reach out for my wife again and tried to contact her! For what? To say what to her? I told her how I felt about you and that I still missed you. All those feelings for you went away the minute she said you were still trying to get in touch with her! So I'm telling you (name), I'm done with you and everything about you. I know you save everything so just remember what you emailed to this account over that time talking to me it's all saved too (just in case). I'm not threatening you (name), I'm asking you to walk away the same way I'm about to do with you. End it, forget me and I'll forget you. I've messed my life up with you and now I'm going to fix it. I'm asking you to stop because I'm going to cease communication with you. You can move on with your life if you want to or dwell on this forever. Notice I only sent this to you (name). We can end this now! Don't pursue my wife or me ever again. I tried to be civil with you and you still want to cause pain. This is it (name)! I want my life back and you destroyed it. Your life can go on just leave mine alone and I'll stay out of yours. Goodbye."

Then he wrote to me after he sent this: "Im your husband if you still want me. To build a Soldier or make one you have to break them down and then rebuild them. Im at the bottom and im ready to rebuild me and us."



Now, since this, he says that I have no idea that he has done a 180 and he is done...that he was so stupid. He has slowly been making efforts, but it is still slow (understandably). Thing is he does not want to talk about it - he always does things on his own - always has, but I just don't know that he can handle this one by himself. I told him that I am not the person that can help him. I can help work on us, but he has his own demons he has to deal with, and I know it kills him to even think about it so he pushes it aside. He tells me that whatever I want, whatever I need, he is there, but talking about it - just is not happening or it puts a big cloud over us for 2 days. Sinc it is all still so new, 2 days is like an eternity. Could this have been it, and now he just needs to heal himself, but until he does, we can't truly put this past us?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Wow! That is a good email. I wish I had that given to the OW by my man. I would feel safe & secure right now, 9 months after finding out. He did this by himself...I assume...with no input or request from you? Even if you did request it, he wrote it without you. And they were feelings he wrote down. through and through. And as you say, he is a man who struggles to be open with his feelings. He wrote those to her.

So, it is kind of understandable why he doesn't want to discuss, he is that personality as you say...esp so if he just shut down following his dad dying. He is also a soldier, probably the kind of personality that is right for that kind of job. I imagine he has seen (and done) some unimaginable things in the role of his job. If he has come clean with you, and you believe that, time will heal. 2days and it is turmoil, hell. Give it a few weeks and you will feel slightly better. Slightly being the operative word. Give it longer and things become a bit more in perspective. Once things are more in perspective, things become clearer. You will know what you need. Ask him kindly and lovingly to give it in order to save your marriage and to repair the damage he has done to you. He has to reverse the torture he has put you through. He wronged, and so now he has to deal with your pain in order to right. I really hope he does.

It sounds to me, with what little I know, that he has realised by that email. An epiphany. An awakening to the shallowness of lust. He just needs a kick up the ass to the importance of marriage.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains - I did not help him or request that email. It was after she tried contacting me again that he came to this. He got very drunk that night, but this was at the beginning. Then he just sat there, waiting for her to respond. He said that if she made any threats after this, that was it - he would not let her get away with it - said he was not going to let her threaten his family. So even if he had an awakening, could he still be dealing with the feelings he had for her or is it all about his feelings of himself?


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## xrayz (Aug 8, 2011)

Uh...yeah.....you talking about it as many times as you need to, whenever you need to is part of what he now gets to deal with due to HIS cheating. My husband cheated on me 2 years ago and I STILL am triggered by things and find myself bringing it up. One way I know he has changed is he continues to be supportive of me and understanding when I have these relapses into hurt and anger. If he began to get defensive I would immediately become suspicious. Tell dude (your cheating lowlife husband) to put on his big girl panties and take it like the scumbag ( I mean man) that he thought he was when he was with the other ho-bag and deal with the emotions, hurt, anger and questions that HE has now caused you to have!!!! He brought it and now he has to deal with the consequences! You call the shots now my sista, not him!


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## xrayz (Aug 8, 2011)

Trust me, if you dont get the closure you need, which comes by you talking, talking and more talking about it...it will continue to eat at you and drive you nuts! This is the ONLY way for you both to be able to move on is by him coming completely clean and continuing to go over and over it as many times as you need him to. It's a way of you answering all the questions inside your head of where did you go wrong..how did this happen...what could you have done differently, etc...just like if someone has died. You must talk about it until you feel at peace in your head that you did nothing here. You will know when you have closure...if he truly wants to work it out he will swallow his pride and selfishness and help you heal by taking responsibility for the destruction he has caused and doing what he needs to do to help you heal.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Sunny, I believe the best approach is for your husband to write a NC letter and send it certified mail. I would also contact an attorney to see if a restraining order might be in order here. She is a type of person that will not give up at this time and seems unstable. If she is active duty I would call her commander. Adultery is a punishable offence in the military and perhaps this type of pressure is what is needed at this time.

Stay alert and strong.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Thorburn - she is not military any more. I really don't want my husband to go back and resend another letter, since we both know she got the last email. And about a restraining order, until she does something now after his last email to her, we don't have a leg to stand on. I know this because in the very beginning I called the sheriff, had him come to our house, and showed him that she was harassing my family, me, and I was concerned she may fly out here and do harm to my children. He recorded right then when my husband called her, left a voice mail and told her to leave us alone or we would file harassment charges...that all became null and void when my husband started texting her again. I think I could have come out of this ok if it ended then. Made me feel like an idiot. I was not taking chances though...even went to my childrens' schools and told them that my family was being harrassed by a female and to take extra measures...that was one of the hardest things I did - I was embarrassed, enraged, and devestated. I did not stop shaking for 1/2 hour after I left the principals office....it was then that I realized that my life and my childrens world had been shattered by the man who was supposed to protect us from harm, and that he was the one who knowingly caused it. They don't know, and as long as we can work through it, they never will. I know my 9 year old is aware of things going on, and she may well have picked up on it - she is way too wise beyond her years and strong. I pray that she does not. Her dad is her world.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Remains - I did not help him or request that email. It was after she tried contacting me again that he came to this. He got very drunk that night, but this was at the beginning. Then he just sat there, waiting for her to respond. He said that if she made any threats after this, that was it - he would not let her get away with it - said he was not going to let her threaten his family. So even if he had an awakening, could he still be dealing with the feelings he had for her or is it all about his feelings of himself?


I believe if he still had strong feelings for her he would not have written such a strong worded letter. And I believe if he had any feelings for her he would not have written what he did. That letter was all about his family, him, and more importantly the love he has for you. He would have softened it considerably if there were still feelings. However, love is close to hate, he hated what she did to you, to him, to his family...and he was drunk. Ask him if he still feels the same as when he wrote that letter. Ask him if he feels the same with time passed since it and now sober. I also agree somewhat with the last posts. He needs to make the damage better as he caused the damage. He needs to do what it takes. If it is painful for him, it doesn't touch the pain he has caused you. Try to get him to see that opening up is the way forward. And time.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

If he started txting again AFTER he sent the email, then it looks like the email was sent in anger. Get him to talk. About his feelings for you, for her, and so on. 

Another thing to consider, he never talked about his Dad. When you don't talk about things, those things screw with your head. If you don't let them out in order to make sense of them, they grow and turn into other things. Make ripples on your life without you knowing. If you don't deal with the sh*t the sh*t deals with you. In ways that are twisted and very very faulty. What is the way forward? We know the best way I guess, but can we do it? We are a product of our experiences, and our personality. I hope you can get him to see that the only way forward is to talk. Brutal & honest. I am still in that process, my man is generally very closed, he opened at 1st but when I got to a certain point/question, that was it. I have tried to make him feel safe, tried to let him know that is the only way forward, tried to let him kniw that whatever it is & how bad it is, it doesn't matter. At least if it is out there we can deal with it. We cannot deal with bullsh*t. Because that is not real. I am not sure if he gets it, if he can. I am going to have another go tonight once my kids are in bed. We will see.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains - good luck tonight. Stay strong. As for the email and texts, this was the last contact he made that I am aware of. He texted earlier (December) after he said he made his choice, but this email (Jan 3) was the last I know about. My heart tells me it is the last contact, but my heart was wrong before and my brain tells me that there is always a possiblility it is not. That is what I am having issues with. I want to trust and believe, but after going back and forth like he did, it is out of my control right now to be 100%...that will have to come with time and his actions. I love him, but I am so damn angry. I hate feeling like this and get angry with myself for letting myself down for not being stronger. I want a life with him - always have, but don't want this...am angry that this happened. I like me, and that is not a problem. I don't feel jealous of the OW - I am just angry and hurt. I have triggers, and that makes me mad too. I know all of this is normal, but the situation is not. It is crap. I wish I had a crystal ball that could tell me this would never happen again and that in 50 years we will be old, happy, and relieved that we worked through this mess. If I knew that, I think I could honestly never talk about it again.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

So here I am today - just having a bad day - no particular triggers - just sadness. I think hearing other stories over the last few days has helped, but it has also made me think more. Fast forward to this afternoon. Hubby tells me that he was called in at work and told that he needs to fix whatever is going on and get the numbers up.....so he feels like a dirtbag, and I do what I always do - comfort - just my nature for anyone I care about and even those I don't. What I said and what I wanted to say were 2 different things...basically told him that he just has not had focus the last few months and that he needed to concentrate on work while at work, nothing else....to stay late and get caught up/ahead for the next few weeks, and that I will take care of things at home. What I wanted to say was "It takes a lot of energy, sanity and time to have a mistress on the side. Should have thought about that 4 months ago when you were texting back and forth every 5 minutes and foregoing sleep so you could plan your future with the hoochie while your wife and kids slept in the other room. See why affairs are a bad idea?" wow - that felt good to say, even if I didn't  Good news - STD tests came back negative yesterday. I did not give him the respose he wanted, so he was upset (sad/hurt). I pointed out how I was happy, but it was bitter sweet - the point is I have been scared for us and him, and the fact that he had to have tests done at all makes it less than a joyful celebration. Was I wrong to not do cartwheels? What is wrong is having to use a condom with your wife of 15 years, in my opinion. So I reassured him that I was happy about it, and that was that.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I wish I had a crystal ball that could tell me this would never happen again and that in 50 years we will be old, happy, and relieved that we worked through this mess. If I knew that, I think I could honestly never talk about it again.


Yes, I have very much wished for a crystal ball. It is difficult to trust, difficult to know he will be decent no matter what, as he has already shown what he us capable of. And that is not pleasant. A crystal ball would solve all issues & answer all questions.

The talk the other night went well. It was calm & he was open & honest with me I feel. All good at the moment. Though now I feel he is going to allow me to talk again, I feel the need to much more. All those unanswered questions that keep cropping up, & the answers creating new questions. I hope he remained open to discussion.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains - I am happy that things went well for you and that he was decent during time of questioning. I posted on another thread last night. I questioned myself - what questions do I need to ask now that would make me feel any better? I know it was all about sex at first - he could/would not let the opportunity pass him by, and then got emotionally/lustfully attached - then they hooked up, lied, lied, lied....planned a future with no regard to me or our children (so just that there I know he is f***ed up because he loves our daughters. I know he is weak and does not like to be alone. I saw emails, texts, and at one point we even texted her together to get her to go away, but he is the one who kept at it because he was addicted. I know that he is here and working on things, but I still have doubt as to his motives at times and wonder if he really does love me like he says he does. There are times when I fume and swear out loud at him when no one is around because it makes me feel better. There are times that I hate him and question myself and what I am still doing with the bastard. Then there are times when I know that he is my husband...I love him...he is my girls' father, and I want us to live happily ever after. My motto for a long time has been - if it is meant to happen it will, but sometimes not without a lot of hard work. I am working harder emotionally than I ever did before. There is no good reason or acceptable reason why he had the affair. I know that even as he tried to explain through it he lied. I know that he was lying to the OW to....he just wanted something and his hormones took over - very weak. That is an issue with me. Maybe as I am typing this I am crating my own list of questions to ask next. Mainly, I don't need to know details. I am comfortable and happy with who I am, so whatever they may have talked about me, I don't care. Of course the OW would want to portray me in the most negative light she could - and she never even met me. My biggest concern now is where my husband is at emotionally, and has there been any further contact. I know that at some point there has to be a time that there is no contact (even by her). She already sent a book to his work the night I came back from my trip, so she has that address....home and work addresses are easy to look up. We are at 24 days of last contact that I know of, and I have doubts because of the lies before that it was over. I have doubts because it is not like her to just drop it. I asked husband a week ago if there was any contact from her and that I found it hard to believe that she would not do something, and told him that I worried she might send something to his work - he said no, but he had thought of that too - but I don't believe he would tell me. He told me after the last contact "goodbye" email that he really needed me to trust him now. I get that he wants that to feel like I am giving him this shot or some other reason maybe, but I can only give so much. I want to be able to trust him, but I really don't have control over that right now and I think that 24 days is too soon. (sorry for the rambling - feels good to get it out there). So, maybe ask yourself what questions you want to ask, and what questions will really make you feel better about asking. You may find that you don't need to know so much about what happened, but want to know more of what is going to happen...that is just my thoughts and how I feel today...you know how that goes. I wish you the best.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Thankyou Looking. I agree with you about the questions. I have written many down over the last 8 months. Many. Not asked all of them, but most. Most are questions due to his explanations not making sense. A lot of them about the details of when and why. That is all I want to know really. Not the details of their time together, just Why. Why he would do that to me while declaring love to me, what made him do that, what was going through his head, what were the causes and so on. I just want to know the triggers really, his motives, why they were there and will they ever be there again. And more to the point, how will he deal with them. And of course his feelings for me, about me, and his feelings for her. I need to know to be able to understand. Once I understand, I can get over it. Once I know the answers to those questions, and believe what he tells me, I can then decide whether he is a risk worth taking.

Quote "He told me after the last contact "goodbye" email that he really needed me to trust him now." 
My man said the same to me. It was over, and I just need to trust him. That translates into 'it is over and I don't want to talk about it'. Trust doesn't just reappear! Don't they get it. If they want trust, they have to earn it. Trust was there, they abused it, broke it, there4 they have to fix it. And that is where the hard work comes into it. If they don't want to work at it, it is not important enough to them. Sometimes they need a bit of help with that too. My man, like yours, is not a 'feelings' man. I don't know really deep down what goes on inside him, and if I ask I am not sure I would get a truthful answer. I do believe he is getting there though. I think he is beginning to see. And to see that it is healthy. It is what makes a couple closer. It is the basis of a good relationship. To be able to talk about anything and to be able to be open. To be there to lean on and look after each other when needed. To be able to say that you are unhappy and why, to bring up issues as they arise. To say that things are not right because they are finding they are looking outside the relationship and are worried in case it goes further than looking. These are problems in the relationship and need to be sorted within. I hope my man will be able to say that to me if he ever feels that way. I think that may be a step too far in his ability to be honest though  I just hope he is genuine in that he will come to me with issues before they turn into something with someone else.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

It has been 24 days since last contact - I still find it hard to believe that the OW has not attempted further contact. I only hope that my husband would tell me - not sure he would still. I see a car parked out front of my house for about 20 min (I work from home). I go out to get the mail, and it speeds away. Coincidence, probably, but still keeps me on high alert. OW lives in another state, but remember the story of the astronaut who put on Depends so she would not have to stop and drove cross country to get to her EA partner.....that is a stretch, I know, but this OW is a bit dramatic and crazy to begin with. This is the type of stuff that I hate dealing with - because one never knows. You always hope that nothing comes of it once it is over, but you don't know what other people are capable of and if they have moved on and you are just left being paranoid for awhile. Has anyone else experienced this? I sent a text to husband, and he just said that he would make sure security cameras were on at all times - does he think I am paranoid or does he think there could be anything to this - I don't know. I just told him that I debated whether to say anything, but after getting my daughter from school, it suddenly seemed more important to mention - coincidence or not.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

OK - so I have been posting recent things of my story on another thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/38778-looking-advice-men-who-cheated-their-wives.html.

As of now, we have been doing much better, but still do not discuss things. I told WS last month that I forgave him, so that I could move on. When things do pop up on occassion, usually because of a trigger, he gets angry - he says at himself for what he did. Yesterday I had a moment, and he said about himself, "even though I don't think about it, I need to remember that it happened". And he sent me a song by Tim McGraw, Better Than I used to Be, and said that it was as if the song was written for him. WS has been doing better. I don't believe he does not think about things, but that is his way of dealing with it. My situation - I am angry. I never responded to the OW when she posted horrible things on my father's Facebook page, when she called my mother-in-law saying she was my husband's misteress, or when she contacted me several times by phone and email to leave explicit details. I was not going to give her the satisfaction...but now I am so angry and want to lash back out at her. I know it would not do any good, but I am so filled with hurt and anger right now, probably just a stage of healing (3 months since DD and 2 months since last contact (as far as I know). Is this normal? Do I tell my WS how I am feeling? Do I keep it all inside like most everything else? I have taken so much crap and have taken the high road, but now I feel almost as if I have been defeated - like I never got the chance to fight for myself because given the situation, I felt that being silent said even more about me and my strength and determination. I still have questions that I know answers would do no good to our marriage healing....mostly "what the heck was going through your mind...how could you just toss your family aside and do you still feel anything positive for her?" I want to cause her as much pain as she did me - as much embarrassment as she did me. I hate feeling like this, but I hate feeling defeated after all that I have been through already. What do I do to feel good - I know my husband is with me - but that is not enough. I am angry at him still. I want us to be good, and we have been, but the last few days I have been consumed with anger. What do I do - is this normal - will this pass?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

For me my anger is more piece meal. Last week I was focus on the pursuit, who pursued who? As I have most of the information my mind just goes in different directions and focuses on things that may or may not even be important. I guess part of it is I live in an apartment during the week and my WS is not around so I have time to think. 

As I looked at what my WS did it dawned on me last week that the OM did nothing to come after my wife (other than online). She drove our car to pick him up, take him to the motels, drive him to church parking lots, etc to have sex. I called my WS last Thursday and asked her, who pursued who? She said, it was mutual. I asked her what did the OM do? How many times did he drive his car? She said, never. Who drove to the motels? I did.

Heck, I could go on. Right now the anger does not pass, it is just not there all the time. I hope in time it goes away. At least now I have it under control and when it pops up I can sit on it for a while and let days pass. If the issue of the anger is important enough to me I will bring it up to my WS but not immediately.

For me I feel I have a little more control over my anger.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Well - I brought up why I was angry last night because he could tell something was wrong. I told him matter of factly that I was angry at her and wanted to cause her as much pain as she caused me and my family - not even considering the affair itself, but her contacting them, posting nasty stuff and tainting the memory of my brother who I have yet to properly grieve over losing. I told him that I have been thinking of my brother the last week, and she pops in my head over what she did, and I want her to suffer emotionally for what she did to my parents who were also grieving the loss of their only son. He told me that I should have been honest about where I was at and thought I was lying about how far we have come. Then he went into how he hates himself and I told him to stop feeling sorry for himself for once and that what I was feeling was not about him but was about me - to let me feel what I needed to feel...and it all went down hill from there. After he leaves the house and miraculously avoids a DUI, we talk quietly in the kitchen. Him about what a piece of **** he is, asking me what I would say to our daughters if their future husbands ever did this to them, how he knows how much he hurt me. He said that he knows I am griving for my brother, and I have every right to be angry, but I will never understand what it is to be him, knowing that he did this to me, and at such a low point in my life, and how he just wants to forget who he is. I asked him if he would ever love me like he did a long time ago and he said that he does and has been - and he has been trying. I then asked him what he wanted. Did he want to be with me or not, and if not, to tell me then and not give me false hope. He said he did, that he wanted to be with me, with the girl he married a long time ago. I tried to tell him again that my anger that I have been feeling was not at him, it was at her, and that yes, I wanted him to hate her too. He said he did, and every time he sees me upset, he hates her more. But he also said that he brought all of this, he ruined a good thing. I told him that he still had a good thing, that I was still here and right in front of him, that I still loved him, and I told him not to screw it up again, because what just happened was not helping us. He said he can make it better, and I told him to do it. I told him that each day is getting better, but I still have feelings that I never knew I could have suddenly happen. I told him that I would have moments and I could eithet tell him and him give me a few minutes and support, or I could walk away. When we first started arguing, he walked away into another room. I tried talking to him and he would not acknowledge me. I knew he did not want to talk, but I felt the need to. He said that I was not being honest, and that set me off. So I told him that all of the letters, and emails and little gifts that he has given me don't mean anything then and he can have them all back. That is what really set him off....I was wrong for saying that. I was hurt...I did not know how much it would hurt him. So I apologized for it in the kitchen, and he told me that I did not have to apologize for anything for the next 50 years...that I did not do anything wrong. That I was a good person...how he hopes that our daughters grow up to be like me, but that he is scared that our youngest will grow up to be like him (because of how feisty she is and stubborn). I told him that they will both turn out fine, but that he always needed to love them and be there for them. I told him that if it made him feel better, that there were times that I wished he got hit by a bus....that I did have anger at him. He said that he he has thought about that too and how at least he would leave the girls and I financially set. I told him to never say that again or I would kill him myself (not seriously of course, but to drive a point). He hates himself, says he wants us to be happy, and that I have nothing to be sorry for. He owns it. He knows it almost destroyed me. Where do I go from here? We can't fight like that again. He knows he almost got caught screwing up (drinking and driving), and that scared him - he asked - "what the hell am I doing? I almost screwed up everything." And yes, that would have been bad. He acknowledged that his actions have caused a chain reaction of bad events and bad choices. I think we have had some major serious crap go on all because we have not been thinking clearly. It is time to get past that. He also said that he thought we got to where we are too fast and that things that were brought up last night should have been talked about before....yes, I agree that we should have dealt with things before, but that is when he was not talking at all - I told him we needed to hash through things, but he did not want to...now he sees it. However, I was sad and scared and any anger I did have at the time was at him. Now, I have been focusiing on our recovery, and my anger is at her...so I had no way of knowing back then what I would be feeling now. I keep my feelings in check as much as possible, but sometimes it just comes out - no fault of mine and he knows that - it is hard for him to see, and I guess it should be. This morning, he went to work, sent me a text asking if I could pick up our youngest from preschool/daycare. I told him yes, asked if he could pick up something for me on his was home or if he was going someplace and could not. I was trying to give him some space. He texted back saying to nevermind and he would pick up our daughter. I texted back that I would, told him to not dismiss how far we have come in a short time and that we have no clock or timetable to follow, and that I loved him, and if he didn't belive anything else, to at least belive that. He has not responded. SORRY SO LONG! Had to get that off my chest. Thorburn, I know about the pursuit thing. Same story here. She contacted hi m first on teh internet, but he kep it going and picked her up at the airport, drove her around while she came for her visit and took her back. He could have said no at anytime, but did not. To move forward, I know that. I accept it, even if I don't understand it, and it happened...can't change it. What is important now is what he does for us, and that this never happens again.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Wow. Good to get things off your chest Sunny. I too get mad at the OM but remember this Sunny.

Your husband is the one at fault. I think your anger is really towards your husband and you are transfering it to the OW. In reality the OW is not to blame for most of it. Your husband and my wife planned things out, took effort and time to do what they did. I did what you did in blaming the OM but as I piece together the events it is like HOLY SHI* Batman, look at what she did and the OM did not force her.

At the beginning of January I was driving home early from where I work (it takes me several hours to get home). I got drunk on bourbon and ended up at the plant where the OM works. There were 30 cars in the parking lot but no one was in the building. The doors were locked. I broke into the plant. I was shouting. The place was large but no one was in the building. I searched every room, every closet, all the meat lockers, no one. They must have been off site at a holiday party. I even checked the security room and saw that where I broke into the building there were not cameras. I sat there at the OM's work desk (computer was locked) and did nothing. I went and checked the security room again and rewound the system to make sure that I was not "caught". Even in my drunken state I looked fairly normal, knocking at the doors. I finally called a good friend of mine who served in Vietnam that I worked with at my previous job and he talked me out of doing anything more stupid and told me to go home. He talked to me the entire time to make sure I made it safe.

I am fortunate not to be in jail.

I tell you all this to say that we get angry at the OM or OW but our WS's are the ones that betrayed us.


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