# Living together : yes/no?



## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

So i've been reading a lot; and im just curious about what TAM members would say about living together before marriage?

is there any of TAM members have done it before?how did it work out (or not) for you?

how does that affect (or not) to your (later) marriage?


thank you


----------



## Tiberius (Mar 22, 2012)

My philosophy is this-you go into a store and you try on a dress that you will only wear a couple of times, so why should you not live together before getting married to see how compatible you are?
I have a teenage daughter and I have always said to her to live with someone first then get married. I did for a year before we got married.
Obviously, this does not work with religious people who consider sex before marriage as sin.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I think that it doesn't matter either way, because people who understand compatibility well won't live with or marry someone who is incompatible, and will be successful with a compatible person whether they tie the knot or don't.

People who don't know how to gauge compatibility well will end up splitting up or divorced regardless of which path they take, too.

The one thing I think does make a difference is that marriage makes it harder to walk away, which can be a good thing, but can also cost more when a breakup comes, which isn't so hot.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Everyone I know who is within ten years of my age and married lived together first. Many long term couples I know aren't married and have no plans to do so, although they are committed in every other way.

Among people I know, it would be very unusual to get married without spending a couple of years living together first.


----------



## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

I would say it's essential. You don't truly know someone until you live with them.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

It's my personal preference not to live with my future spouse. 

My husband did ask me to move in while engaged and a month before we married, but I declined. We are very compatible and get along exceptionally well.


----------



## Michelleinmichigan (Jun 26, 2013)

I say no. People have to go into marriages completely committed to making it work. Living together is like saying, "I'm not sure."

Women especially, need a man that loves them enough to marry them before they settle down. Women need a man who is strong enough to tell them they are willing to spend the rest of their lives with them no matter what. That is love.

I've seen girls leave their homes, move in with a guy, and change into something that resembled a cult victim. Their parents couldn't get through to them, and they were suffering and nobody knew why. They made silly decisions, with the wrong person, with the false sense of security that is wasn't a marriage. If they had thought in terms of marriage, it would not have happened. The bastard who messed up this poor girl emotionally was never willing to marry her, and her parents would not have approved. She knew he wasn't marriage material, but didn't know the damage that he could do.

Cohabitation is not easy, people who go into committed relationships seeing if it will work, are likely to separate at some point. It is a matter of time. why give precious time to somebody who doesn't want to commit fully. Real love is a decision, not a feeling. Feelings come and go.

If I were a man you bet I would want some chick to help pay bills, clean around, have sex, and cook. Then when I get tired, or she gives me any beef, it's an easy out. No divorce proceedings, responsibilities, duties, lawyers, paperwork, even if she dedicated the best years of her life to me, I will owe her NOTHING. There are plenty of fools willing to do this. They believe themselves to be the more clever and progressive women of course. To each his own.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Absolutely not. And really doesn't have much to do with religion. If you can't put a ring on it then we can just keep visiting each other. 

Of course I say this after the fact. My H totally shock me by proposing so the question of living together never came up. But now that we been married for 8 year I know I don't recommend it. Caring for a home cooking cleaning and taking care of H in the bedroom is hard work! H is totally worth it but I'm good to that man! No way I'm giving that much of myself without and you can walk whenever you want to no strings attached.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I think it's going to be different for everyone.It needs to be based on what works for your relationship.I don't need SO for his financial support or whatever so I'm fine to live with him without being married.He still has his own place and we stay at mine.We'll get married soon,mostly for the tax break and the thrill he'll get from saying I'm his wife we've been living together without marriage for 2 years.

A ring and a ceremony isn't going to keep my man with me any more than all of his stuff at my house would keep him.If a man really wants to leave you,he'll do it no matter what.For me and my life,to not live with someone before marrying them is not inside the realm of possibility.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

we lived together first so I could see how she would react to skid marks


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> we lived together first so I could see how she would react to skid marks


which of course is the ultimate test.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> we lived together first so I could see how she would react to skid marks


That's the true test.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> we lived together first so I could see how she would react to skid marks


If anybody can't do any better than skid marks then do your own damn laundry! And keep your nasty under wear in your own hamper


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Michelleinmichigan said:


> If I were a man you bet I would want some chick to help pay bills, clean around, have sex, and cook. Then when I get tired, or she gives me any beef, it's an easy out. No divorce proceedings, responsibilities, duties, lawyers, paperwork, even if she dedicated the best years of her life to me, I will owe her NOTHING. There are plenty of fools willing to do this. They believe themselves to be the more clever and progressive women of course. To each his own.


This is the man's exact thought process. 

Women should be aware of this before deciding to live with a man.


----------



## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Satya said:


> Dolly, I felt exactly this way until recently. Actually, I still completely agree with your sentiment, the issue is that I have 4 girlfriends who are each in this very situation presently. It's extremely telling. They are all looking for marriage, that is their hope. They've agreed to live with their partners feeling exactly as you do and they are all suffering with frequent fights, disagreements, threats of "I'll pack up and leave if you P me off and you won't have X anymore."
> 
> Now I agree that they might not have known the difficulty in living together until it actually happened so maybe finding out that arguments come frequently in this manner is a blessing in disguise. The trouble is that they are now so ingrained in these mens lives for having lived and shared each morning/night with them that it makes it harder for them to get a clue, detach and move on. These men are not going to commit. It's their life and up to them to grow a spine about it, but I look at their situations and think to myself, I wouldn't want to live with anyone who didn't really know that they *want *to be with me.
> 
> ...


I think that religious/moral oppositions to living together aside, that successful living together comes from making sure the expectations are the same on both sides.

Upset comes when (usually) women move in with a guy thinking that it will "prove" to him what a good wife she'll be. More of an audition than a true commitment. I think the next step of that is that it's harder to be successful living together when both partners aren't coming into the arrangement equally. If money or lifestyle is the goal for moving in, then the weaker partner is pretty much stuck in the situation. 

In my experience, the only difference between breaking up and divorcing was the court filing fee. Otherwise, it was just as expensive to get a new place and half a household of furniture and things as it would have been without a marriage certificate. I think I just wouldn't have wasted as much time in a dead relationship that only one of us was halfway interested in reviving if we hadn't had to go to court to dissolve the relationship.


----------



## captainstormy (Jun 15, 2012)

My wife and I didn't technically live together before we were married, but we basically did.

By that I mean, she kept her own place and all that, but did keep toiletries and clothes and such at my place and stayed there 4-5 days a week.

We probably would have moved into with each other after getting engaged but her family is ultra religious. We actually gave her parents a choice of us moving in together and paying for our wedding completely out of pocket ourselves or living apart and they paying for everything. They choose to pay for everything.

Course like I said she still stayed at my place most nights, which let us work out things as far as how our household would run for the two of us before we were married.

If I have a daughter someday, I'd tell her that I think it's probably a fairly good idea to move in once your engaged. It isn't a good idea to live with every single boyfriend you ever have though.


----------



## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

I don't think there's a need. Living together is like dipping one toe in halfheartedly while keeping your options open. If you're not sure about your partner, fine. But then it's probably not a good idea to get married. Just my opinion...


----------



## captainstormy (Jun 15, 2012)

Laila8 said:


> I don't think there's a need. Living together is like dipping one toe in halfheartedly while keeping your options open. If you're not sure about your partner, fine. But then it's probably not a good idea to get married. Just my opinion...


I dunno, I guess I can see why people could view it that way. Personally I think it's more of a way to find out if someone truly is the right person for you.

I think we pretty much all agree it would be silly to marry someone without doing things like:
Talk about kids
Talk about finances
Talk about Goals
Talk about roles in the family
etc etc

I think of it along the same lines. Making sure your compatible with each other in the same living space (and sexually but that's a different topic) to me is just part of the process of finding the right partner.


----------



## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

I'm pro. You don't get to know someone until you live with them in the same house. When dating, you only see the bright side, because they are on their best behavior. Living together reveals their true colors. If there is anything that is a deal breaker for you - such as nasty habits, irresponsability toward household duties or finances, a not as nice attitude as when dating, etc - then this is the chance to recognize it and your option to get out. It saves you the trouble and the heartache of a marriage started unaware of not visible things.
and yes, there's the sex also ! I'd rather know if we're sexually compatible or not, coz if not, we better part ways or stay friends. Especially if sex means a lot to one or both partners. Sexual incompatibility leads only to frustration, misery, adultery, and ultimately, divorce. Just for the claim of being a "saint" not having sex before marriage? I'd say no. 
Try before you buy !


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> This. I've lived with three men that I was serious about. The last one was a keeper. Married him and we will celebrate 22 years next month.
> 
> The key to this is put a time limit on it. Mine was 2 years. If you don't many men won't commit because they don't have to plus its just as easy to get stuck in this as it is married. I had drama leaving because the other guys wanted to get married and I didn't. Don't drag this out hence my two year limit.
> 
> In that 2 years keep your independence, make your own money, don't buy, rent only what you can afford on your own, don't get pregnant, and be willing to leave if its not working.


:iagree::iagree:

Adding to it,everyone needs to realize marriage isn't the ultimate goal for all people.It's so annoying when you're living with a man and everyone insists on asking When's the wedding??? Well,not everyone needs to be married.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Just my opinion but I hate that whole "Try before you Buy" argument. I'm not some piece of furniture where you can just "Get your money Back" if you're not satisfied. If any thing it's no refund or exchanges. And I know several people that live together for a test drive (like they a damn car or something) decided to keep it and then still split up after marrying. 

That being said I have no credibility in this area because I never live with any body nor had to make a decision whether or not to do so.


----------



## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

I'm not "playing house" with anyone. Either we're in all the way, or not at all.

Break ups are hard enough when just dating. Why add a household and joint accounts and bills and having to move out and divide up all the crap into the mix too? Plus some couples adopt a pet together--if you split up after living together, who gets to keep the pet?


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Laila8 said:


> Break ups are hard enough when just dating. Why add a household and joint accounts and bills and having to move out and divide up all the crap into the mix too? Plus some couples adopt a pet together--if you split up after living together, who gets to keep the pet?


It's a roommate situation. No joint accounts, no combining bills, no adopting pets either.

I'm grateful I didn't marry my first love that I did live with. 

Turns out he was an overgrown man child with no ambition and he was a slob. I would have not known this about him had we not lived together. I got his best date side.

Guy #2 was an angry drunk who hit me. To say we weren't compatible living together is an understatement. Lol


----------



## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

I always thought I wouldn't live with my boyfriend before I got married. But now I'm planning to move in. Only because I'm moving to his country, and it's so much easier for him to be there with me, to help me get settled, learn about his culture, etc. if we met while living in the same city, no way I would more in before getting married. 

Before I thought, "not in any circumstances!"

Now I think it depends on each couple's situation and maturity/commitment level.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

kokonatsu said:


> I always thought I wouldn't live with my boyfriend before I got married. But now I'm planning to move in. Only because I'm moving to his country, and it's so much easier for him to be there with me, to help me get settled, learn about his culture, etc. if we met while living in the same city, no way I would more in before getting married.
> 
> Before I thought, "not in any circumstances!"
> 
> Now I think it depends on each couple's situation and maturity/commitment level.


Now this I won't do.

Too risky.

I won't give up my life (aka move long distance) for a boyfriend who I have no legal ties with.

What happens if he dumps me or heaven forbid dies?

Unless I was independently wealthy I'd have to pass on this arrangement.


----------



## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Now this I won't do.
> 
> Too risky.
> 
> ...


Well, I prefer to not live in Canada, and I spent a couple years abroad already. So moving to another country is not that big of a deal for me. I almost jumped at the chance to move there. And not just because of him, there are other factors that play into my decision to move there. And I do have enough to support myself if something happens, so I can get back to Canada if I need to. I'm taking a risk yes, but I am not being naive about it. 

different strokes for different folks I guess.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

kokonatsu said:


> Well, I prefer to not live in Canada, and I spent a couple years abroad already. So moving to another country is not that big of a deal for me. I almost jumped at the chance to move there. And not just because of him, there are other factors that play into my decision to move there. And I do have enough to support myself if something happens, so I can get back to Canada if I need to. I'm taking a risk yes, but I am not being naive about it.
> 
> different strokes for different folks I guess.


As long as you can support yourself that's all that matters.

When my now husband wanted me to move several states away I had nothing and no immediate way to support myself in the new location so I said no. We were living together at the time.

He married me first then we moved.


----------



## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

thanks everyone; i see many point of views; and the insights are interesting.

but why -correct me if im wrong- i feel like the women are the 'victim'? what if the woman also wants the 'try before you buy' experience? what if both parties want to move in and not keeping score [i read about 'and he owes her nothing'] - scenario?

because i was married once [didn't live together or did any sleepovers during the dating phase either],and he DID owe me everything and he's not paying me back for whatever that is he owed me and this carved a huge hole in my chest.

yes i admit that marriage is scary to me now, but that's not going to stop me to commit to someone (again) in the future.the notion that 'ppl who only want to live together but not getting married' is somewhat inaccurate -well, at least from where im standing-

anyway, i read abt the marriage satisfaction level on couples who lived together first before they tied the knot versus couples who didn't. and im not going to talk about that research ; any real life experience? is there any different level of 'satisfaction'? 

thank you all for the insights


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

stopandmakecoffee said:


> thanks everyone; i see many point of views; and the insights are interesting.
> 
> but why -correct me if im wrong- i feel like the women are the 'victim'? what if the woman also wants the 'try before you buy' experience? what if both parties want to move in and not keeping score [i read about 'and he owes her nothing'] - scenario?
> 
> ...


Well that's the thing.Lots of women want say they're equal and everything should be equal.They demand it.Then they present women as victims who,without marriage,will perish and end up penniless,homeless,and hopeless.


----------



## captainstormy (Jun 15, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Well that's the thing.Lots of women want say they're equal and everything should be equal.They demand it.Then they present women as victims who,without marriage,will perish and end up penniless,homeless,and hopeless.


I agree, a lot of people (especially women) are very hypocritical about women these days. On the one hand they say how there isn't any difference between men and women but then in the same breath will turn around and talk about how weak and vulnerable women are.

FWIW, it's easy for anyone to end up penniless and homeless male or female with or without marriage. It only takes a few bad choices to end up there.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

captainstormy said:


> I agree, a lot of people (especially women) are very hypocritical about women these days. On the one hand they say how there isn't any difference between men and women but then in the same breath will turn around and talk about how weak and vulnerable women are.
> 
> FWIW, it's easy for anyone to end up penniless and homeless male or female with or without marriage. It only takes a few bad choices to end up there.


Of course we are equal. But we're different and have different area of vulnerability. 

I'm not a PC woman at all and don't subscribe to feminist thought pattern. But most women on TAM do. I think there is room for both sides and men who prefer both. Problem here on TAM seem to be men who end up with a feminist but can't handle it.


----------



## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> Women want equality and when they get in too deep they cry victim. This would include say putting a man through medical school only to have him dump you after he graduates. Assuming of course that said woman did so thinking this was her future, her investment to be cared for forever neglecting her own life in the process.
> 
> Women tend to be more romantic and idealistic. They believe in a man taking care of them forever which could happen but all women should be able to provide for themselves.
> 
> Expect the best but prepare for the worst.


If nothing else, I'm a big fan of the "hit by the bus" theory of life management. Even in the best relationship, any of us could be gone tomorrow. Then what would the other partner do? In the best case, it secures the future of yourself and any progeny in case of an unplanned tragedy. Especially in the early years when it's less likely that couples can afford or access significant assets and insurance to set their partner up for life. In the worst case, it gives you the wherewithal to walk away from a toxic or failed relationship.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Michelleinmichigan said:


> If I were a man you bet I would want some chick to help pay bills, clean around, have sex, and cook. Then when I get tired, or she gives me any beef, it's an easy out. No divorce proceedings, responsibilities, duties, lawyers, paperwork, even if she dedicated the best years of her life to me, I will owe her NOTHING. There are plenty of fools willing to do this.





Hicks said:


> This is the man's exact thought process.
> 
> Women should be aware of this before deciding to live with a man.


Here is one woman's exact thought process:
It's great to have a man around to help pay the bills, take care of household chores and have sex with. But no way am I going to hitch my cart to this horse without clear demonstration that he is capable, mature, trustworthy, respectful, loyal, responsible, caring, and a great lover. At first sign that he doesn't measure up, I will be out of there, and will owe him absolutely nothing.

Should men be aware of this before deciding to live with a woman? Would they be fools too?


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

I am an advocate of living together before marriage. It is the best way to find out about a person and whether or not you are truly compatible.

And by compatible, I mean can you really work things out. It is a learning opportunity for you (general you) about yourself and also about the other person.

Since you asked for experiences, I'll share mine. In my twenties, when I knew I didn't want to get married, I lived with a few boyfriends (not at the same time, LOL!). It was discussed and understood that the relationship was not going to lead to marriage. Living with the boyfriend was fun and economical. 

When I got older and decided I wanted to settle down, I told my guy we could get a place together, but I was doing so because I was looking to get married and have a family. He was in agreement on all counts, and I had a ring around 8 months in. 

Unfortunately, that relationship did not work out. However, I don't think it had anything to do with our status- he had an illness and was prescribed opiates, and he became addicted. It was terrible and he recently died, likely as a (direct or indirect) result of the addiction.

I also lived with my now-husband prior to getting married. I had known him for a long time and had actually lived with him as a platonic roommate, along with several friends, back when I was in college. 

Again, prior to moving in, we had discussion and agreement on where the relationship was headed. My now-DH was a bit gun-shy, as he was divorced after his first marriage ended in a horrific mess of addiction and infidelity. We found out that we are very compatible. We were married less than two years after we moved into together.

My SIL has been with her guy for 19 years. They live together, have a house together, but are not married. At first, her guy told her he would not agree to get married until they had a child. Now, he has told her that he doesn't want to get married, period. She will not have a child until she is married, so they are at a standstill in this area. 

However, she has consciously made a decision that her relationship with her guy is more important to her than being married. Her guy's boundary on marriage is acceptable to her. 

I don't understand the "milk for free" philosophy as it relates in 2013. Women have options now. Especially pre-marriage, there is no reason why the average woman can't stand on her own two feet and walk out the door if she is not happy with her situation. It doesn't take long to figure out if you are with someone who is primarily a Taker. 

People, men and women, claim Victim Status all the time. Just because one claims it doesn't make it so.


----------



## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

My ex turned out to suffer from BPD. I realized that after we lived together for some time. 

I can't imagine how broken would I become if I had married her.

So yes, try before you buy.


----------



## VeggieMom (Jun 25, 2013)

I'll tell you what-- I got married way too early after dating for too short a time. I have two daughters. I will strongly and wholeheartedly encourage them to live together for 2 years at least before getting married and deciding to have children with their chosen partner. Hands down.


----------



## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

I used to be against the idea (from living with a very conservative mother), but now, I really believe that you don't know somebody until you live with them.

I wouldn't marry or get engaged to someone without living with them first...BUT I'd need to make sure that we were on the same page about our expectations.

Also agree with the separate accounts and not adopting pets or getting pregnant...in case it doesn't work out, you need to be able to get out and stand on your own two feet.


----------



## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

another interesting posts here from TAM members  thank you everyone 

i found this article : http://www.psychologytoday.com/collections/201306/moving/the-most-basic-freedom

and while i read it,i was thinking about 'commitment' and why is living together before getting married is not quite right because 'everybody (or he) could leave anytime he likes because the commitment level is significantly different from the commitment level in marriage'.

i was thinking like this:
how serious is this so-called marital commitment ? how a piece of paper and and 'I dos' make any difference? i've been there too, and there was no 'commitment' to fight for the relationship from his side.i am the victim of a bad marriage.

and if being a left behind wife is 'understandable' why is being 'left behind domestic partner' is not?
in my opinion, living together gives the woman more security than being married.


----------



## yours4ever (Mar 14, 2013)

why buy the cow when you can get free milk? 

Marriage is hard work and there will always be conflict in ANY relationship, so "trying before commiting" doesn't prove anything except what is already natural events in all relationships.

why buy the cow when you can get free milk?

Marriage makes it a lot more harder for breakups. You think twice after a huge ceremony which tied both sides of the families, you get more support for the children from relatives and yes, it is a very deep decision that shouts "I love and trust you wholeheartedly" ...

A marriage teaches you to be patient with many flaws and yet give yourself loving your partner n family.


----------



## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

but i think the free milk is reciprocal?


----------



## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

No, we didn't live together. It was a possibility, but we didn't move in together. We lived so close to each other and did so much together every day that FOR US, it felt like we were already living together. I already knew we were very compatible, so I didn't see the need to actually live together before we got married.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

We had a unique situation..... Due to my way of viewing Marriage, living together before marriage would have been taboo..(this was a good 28 yrs ago now)... 

Yet due to some unfortunate circumstances .. My step Mom having my Bed & belongings packed on the porch when I returned from a date on my 18th Birthday .....Anyway....I was looking forward to being on my own... lived with a few girls for a time - then found myself living in a camper in another's back yard for a summer ...in between looking for another place to stay closer to my job....

Had my own car, enough $$ to get by.... My husband's dad didn't think that was OK...those crazy living arrangements I was in.... he insisted I come live with their family... giving me a spare room upstairs... .My husband's little brother's room separated us . (at that point we were dating 3 full yrs).... 

I lived there for 3 yrs.... paid my share ...always thankful for their kindness...by then, we had much $$ saved, we moved into a little house on the hill together....so excited.... it all just seemed to fall into place, the timing was right...we planned our Big Wedding...walked down the aisle 8 months later... we always talked about getting married from when we met in our teens...we were inseparable... 

He never "test drove" me - as in "all the way" intercourse ...though we still had plenty of touching going on....so we didn't go stark raving mad... our compatibility was evident from early on..we waited till he got health benefits, so we could start a family..that "nesting" was going on - one might say.. ducks lined in a row. 

I don't feel our living together would have made a difference...one way or another...this just happened due to how our circumstances played out.... 

I can hardly say that living together is something I feel is wrong since we did...& it had no effect on us not getting married. 

Though I do feel if a woman WANTS marriage very strongly down the line...unless that BF is the die hard "marrying type", honorable in his promises.... that many times this can bite her -as he may become too comfortable & change his mind a couple yrs in....It happens far too often.


----------



## yours4ever (Mar 14, 2013)

stopandmakecoffee said:


> but i think the free milk is reciprocal?


You mean, you will care for the cow, clean the poops, invest time and effort but wouldn't want to claim ownership? And when the cow becomes sick and couldn't give milk, you just leave it? 


If you don't see a prob for premarital sex, then yes, no prob to cohabitation before marriage. Vice versa, if you are a believer of sex after marrying, cohabitation will most likely lead to sex.

I believe marriage is a package you get, it has sex, flaws, stress and joy and love. Once you give out sex and "play house", marriage no longer becomes special. As to why people get married, I guess that is another discussion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

yours4ever said:


> Marriage makes it a lot more harder for breakups. You think twice after a huge ceremony which tied both sides of the families, you get more support for the children from relatives and yes, it is a very deep decision that shouts "I love and trust you wholeheartedly" ...
> 
> A marriage teaches you to be patient with many flaws and yet give yourself loving your partner n family.


i was married before; and from where im standing, it is hard allright [i never lived together with my SO] and all in all i understand perfectly what is commitment, deep decission, think twice , the whole shebang; but all i got is just a huge disappointment because the other party wasn't on the same page.

*i think i have to repeat myself that i don't take living together as my cup of tea as i never did it before;i made this thread to explore all opinions and personal experiences from real people *  



yours4ever said:


> You mean, you will care for the cow, clean the poops, invest time and effort but wouldn't want to claim ownership? And when the cow becomes sick and couldn't give milk, you just leave it?


just to be the devil's advocate and for the sake of the argument's : yes i will take good care for the cow, clean the poops and every dirty job there is. *BUT* i dont want to claim ownership. my personal experience taught me that that piece of paper didn't guarantee anything, at all; and i was the cow. the fact that my farmer did that after promised all those on the altar and signed the paper even make things worse; heightened the pain, don't you agree?




yours4ever said:


> If you don't see a prob for premarital sex, then yes, no prob to cohabitation before marriage. Vice versa, if you are a believer of sex after marrying, cohabitation will most likely lead to sex.


no, i dont see a problem for premarital sex. and why is it a problem?



yours4ever said:


> I believe marriage is a package you get, it has sex, flaws, stress and joy and love. Once you give out sex and "play house", marriage no longer becomes special. As to why people get married, I guess that is another discussion.


so sex is some sort of leverage? i dont think so. oh yes i've been married before without the try before you buy -phase. was my marriage special? every marriage is NOT special.


----------



## Tufluv (Oct 27, 2010)

Stopandmakecoffee- My opinion from hindsight is to definitely live together prior to marriage for 2 years minimum. This is coming from someone who is old fashioned and is on her second marriage. I only moved in with them once we were engaged(me trying to be proper). Thought I was being wise to live together first but I didn't do it long enough. By the 2yr mark I would have know that I would not have been happy with either husband.

It hurts to type that but it's true. I actually sensed it within the first month of living with each of them but went against my instinct and just chalked it up to getting used to each others habits, etc. I wish I had lived with both husbands for at least 2yrs. I could have run then and I would have been fine. Hope my personal experience helps you.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Interesting question.
But I have another question.
Why would a woman want to give up her freedom so easily to a man without him making a LEGALLY BINDING commitment to her?

You're done schooling, start your career and real single life. You meet a guy and fall in " like" or love. You live at your own home, you are your own boss , you have your own keys , you can go clubbing all night and return home drunk at 5 Am without having to answer to any man. You can hop a plane with your girlfriends and go to Vegas, or Jamaica for the entire weekend without having to seek permission from a man,
Why would you give up your freedom for a man who is not interested in marrying you or even putting an engagement ring on your finger?

Ok.
So you think a " test drive " will allow for compatibility assessment.
Er, no.
Compatibility is not a fixed attribute and people change with time.
being compatible with someone today is no guarantee that five years later , they would be the same person , or both of you will not drift apart.

That's the problem with these constructs. There's absolutely no science or logic behind them, just anecdotal evidence.

So here's the thing.

You want to purchase a new or used vehicle , so you ask for a test drive. Sure, they will allow you a test drive, but you cannot test drive that car for more than a few minutes. They will never allow you to take that vehicle to the beach, grocery store, work or your home.

You want to rent a nice little apartment or fancy condo , or purchase a new house. Sure, they will let you into the condo / house , feel the walls , enjoy the view for a few minutes. But they will NEVER let you live in the house for two years free or even move in your bed, pyjamas , toothbrush and mobile phone just to spend one night free , to " see" if you like it. 

You need a loan from your finance company/ bank. Sure , they will lend you the money , and maybe even interest free for a few months. But they will NEVER lend you that money without you signing a few LEGAL papers guaranteeing that you would repay, and if you default, they have the power to levy on whatever you used as security.

Nothing in life is free. Guarantee , commitment, security and trust are what makes business possible, in that order. It is how the world runs

Sorry ladies, if a man doesn't value you enough to put a ring on your finger before you start cooking his meals,doing the dishes, doing his dirty laundry, tolerating his snoring , smelly feet, stinky farts , pissing on the toilet seat , sometimes overbearing male ego and generally , all his bad habits,then it will take a miracle for him to do so two years later.
And there's lots of science behind that.

_Human beings are reward oriented._

My silly advice is, ladies , get you own. Finish your education. If possible, get that dream job/ career, get your car, get your own apartment/ house _first_ and you will have a never ending stream of eligible bachelors wanting to marry you. You now have the power of choice and more leverage. 

In business its called adding value to increase your customer base.

But even with all of this, I still think it comes down to the people involved because situations may vary.
However, please don't fool yourself into thinking you need to live with someone in order to test compatibility. 
Don't give up your freedom without a commitment.
Don't invest your life and money on losers.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Interesting question.
> But I have another question.
> Why would a woman want to give up her freedom so easily to a man without him making a LEGALLY BINDING commitment to her?
> 
> ...


Good advice to all the men out there CarribeanMan. I presume it's also good advice to date as many women as possible at the same time to find the best choice.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

If you're going to do it, don't make the mistake of purchasing large assets together, have a joint bank account or combine your income. The law doesn't protect people who aren't married, and a Cohabitation Agreement is the way to go, IMO.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> If you're going to do it, don't make the mistake of purchasing large assets together, have a joint bank account or combine your income. The law doesn't protect people who aren't married, and a Cohabitation Agreement is the way to go, IMO.


:iagree:

That's the point I was getting at.
Protect yourself.
Life is full of uncertainty, and the law only offers certain guarantees in marriage . If you are prepared to sacrifice your freedom of movement, part of your income and your present future prospectives, an honourable man will reward your sacrifice with a legal guarantee.

I've seen lots of young women get caught in that trap. They entangle their finances with furniture , vehicle , lease and all sorts of things , so when red flags appear, their rationalization hamster goes into overdrive .
They end up loosing out.

I've personally known a couple living together for years, woman decides she wants to get married because they have children.
they get married and all hell breaks loose.

There are no guarantees that even a marriage would work out.
But if a marriage does not work out, some kind of financial settlement can be expected.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That's the point I was getting at.
> Protect yourself.
> ...


Not only young women, CM. My son came badly unstuck after purchasing a home with his long term SO... Even though he'd put so much work and effort into the house (gutting it and lovingly re-modernizing it), because his SO's father had given them the deposit, and there wasn't any equity in the house at that stage, he ended up having to walk away. To add insult to injury, the day he moved out, her new man (a work colleague of theirs, no less) moved in!

My hackles rise just typing this!


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

If the point of living together before marriage is to determine marital compatibility, forget about it. The statistics of divorce are clear that it does no such thing. 

The cohabitation effect even has its own name - whereby living with someone before marriage correlates with higher marital dissatisfaction.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/opinion/sunday/the-downside-of-cohabiting-before-marriage.html?pagewanted=all


----------



## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I guess it depends on the couple, I just would add it seems to take the romance from the wedding. I just attended a wedding the couple lived together for 3 years. To me it made no sense to have a traditional wedding. But, that is my opinion. 

To me the wedding is more romantic when its the start of a new life together to wake up to a new life. It just seems that after the wedding this couple just goes back to the same old lifestyle. 

Can anyone shed any light, I hate to feel like such a downer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Good solid open and honest communication seems to be what breaks down and causes cohabitation before marriage to result in divorce where the couples got married. It seems as though it lulls many into a state of euphoria based in sexual and dream fulfillment. Makes a lot of sense. Good article. I guess we all need to learn how to communicate better before marriage?


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Good solid open and honest communication seems to be what breaks down and causes cohabitation before marriage to result in divorce where the couples got married. It seems as though it lulls many into a state of euphoria based in sexual and dream fulfillment. Makes a lot of sense. Good article. I guess we all need to learn how to communicate better before marriage?



Communication _is _the key.
But we have expectations, and don't communicate them, so everything falls apart.
I believe if two people want to cohabit, I see no problem. But they must know realistically, that it guarantees nothing,and they should protect their assets.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Not only young women, CM. My son came badly unstuck after purchasing a home with his long term SO... Even though he'd put so much work and effort into the house (gutting it and lovingly re-modernizing it), because his SO's father had given them the deposit, and there wasn't any equity in the house at that stage, he ended up having to walk away. To add insult to injury, the day he moved out, her new man (a work colleague of theirs, no less) moved in!
> 
> My hackles rise just typing this!



my goodness!

Sorry to her about that situation.
She seemed to have everything well planned out.
But she could have been a whole , lot more considerate!


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Communication _is _the key.
> But we have expectations, and don't communicate them, so everything falls apart.
> I believe if two people want to cohabit, I see no problem. But they must know realistically, that it guarantees nothing,and they should protect their assets.


I always knew this. I just enjoyed the eye opening article since it gets to what many, all over this site forget and seem to overlook. It's ALL about good communication. 

When someone comes on here early with a situation they do not like, and they know what they will tolerate, their boundaries are in place, and they look for help, it seems they can pull out of difficulties in most cases.(sorry for the run-on sentence) Not all situations are solved. They have the very best chance early. They know themselves and their spouse. They see the signs and communicate with their spouse early about boundaries and get into counseling if one of them does not understand. It seems the very best route to a healthy relationship.

I do believe it is possible to live together if communications are good and the two are level headed and honest. I also believe that finances and thing should be kept separate. Yes, it's a benefit in the area that there is a steady supply of supposedly monogamous sex, which is not likely outside of a relationship like this. It is a benefit for both partners. So, learn while you are young how to communicate. Stay away from living together until you can communicate. Decide what your boundaries are and stick to them and keep your finances separate until a contract is signed allowing for punishment of one partner or the other. I think a better word would be consequences.


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> My silly advice is, ladies , get you own. Finish your education. If possible, get that dream job/ career, get your car, get your own apartment/ house _first_ and you will have a never ending stream of eligible bachelors wanting to marry you. You now have the power of choice and more leverage.


:iagree:
Could not agree with this more.


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm actually all for living with someone before marriage, it's a lot easier for someone to mask their true personality and keep up appearance when they have breaks away from you. Living together gives you the opportunity to notice little changes in behavior.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> I'm actually all for living with someone before marriage, it's a lot easier for someone to mask their true personality and keep up appearance when they have breaks away from you. Living together gives you the opportunity to notice little changes in behavior.


Some people can have the strongest connection and lust in the world... But they simply CANNOT live together. It doesn't mix in close quarters, they are too selfish and set in their ways to accomidate each others space.

You cannot know this without living together. Hence, I'm of the belief you live together first so you don't find out after going through an expensive marriage, that you simply cannot share space with the person.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> :iagree:
> Could not agree with this more.


Should a man follow the same advice? My question though, is... If someone cannot be with you during tough times and while you have to earn your way up, how are they worthy of your time and accomplishments?

Shouldn't it be a person supportive of your efforts, while you don't have much or working on it?


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

mablenc said:


> I guess it depends on the couple, I just would add it seems to take the romance from the wedding. I just attended a wedding the couple lived together for 3 years. To me it made no sense to have a traditional wedding. But, that is my opinion.
> 
> *To me the wedding is more romantic when its the start of a new life together to wake up to a new life. It just seems that after the wedding this couple just goes back to the same old lifestyle*.
> 
> Can anyone shed any light, I hate to feel like such a downer.


In our situation.. we had 1 new and beautiful anticipated thing to bring to our Union..the Romance of it all ....GOING ALL THE WAY... the fusion / penetration...finally... Most would find that impossible to believe (not like we were going to announce it).....if others learned this ..they would seriously think something was wrong with us...call us prude low drivers or something)...

I shared this with the Pastor who gave us Pre-marital counseling...I can only imagine what he thought with us living together (after all that = banging together).... but we knew... that's all that mattered..

We had an ordeal with my hymen after those vows too.... our story is a little NUTS....but I'll keep it . 

As far as relationships go (choosing to live together or not)... experts say the Romantic RUSH lasts about 18 months... if a couple is still going strong, content.. still feeling in love, bonded after this time frame....they have beat the odds.... 

It's all about hands on...much time together.... knowing how to resolve conflict, effective INTERdependent communication is huge here.....understanding each others quirks, temperaments.... house-keeping habits (can we hang with those)....beliefs, do you share similar dreams, do you laugh together, Enjoy doing things together....miss the other when away......

Do you know each others love languages & strive to fulfill ....it's so many many things.


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

treyvion said:


> *Should a man follow the same advice? * My question though, is... If someone cannot be with you during tough times and while you have to earn your way up, how are they worthy of your time and accomplishments?
> 
> Shouldn't it be a person supportive of your efforts, while you don't have much or working on it?


Definitely, I think for both it's a good idea.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Caribbean Man;2944593
My silly advice is said:


> first[/I]
> 
> 
> 
> This is part of what I taught my daughter. I wouldn't expect less from any other man or woman.


----------



## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> In our situation.. we had 1 new and beautiful anticipated thing to bring to our Union..the Romance of it all ....GOING ALL THE WAY... the fusion / penetration...finally... Most would find that impossible to believe (not like we were going to announce it).....if others learned this ..they would seriously think something was wrong with us...call us prude low drivers or something)...
> 
> I shared this with the Pastor who gave us Pre-marital counseling...I can only imagine what he thought with us living together (after all that = banging together).... but we knew... that's all that mattered..
> 
> ...


That's a great story. We both married virgins and left our family homes for the first times. But I can see the benefits on both sides.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Interesting question.
> But I have another question.
> Why would a woman want to give up her freedom so easily to a man without him making a LEGALLY BINDING commitment to her?
> 
> ...


Bravo!! Great advice!

:iagree::smthumbup:


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

TiggyBlue said:


> I'm actually all for living with someone before marriage, *it's a lot easier for someone to mask their true personality* and keep up appearance when they have breaks away from you. Living together gives you the opportunity to notice little changes in behavior.


It's really a shame so many people are LIKE this though...one shouldn't have to do a "trial living together" to discover this ...

After being on this forum for over 3 yrs & reading countless relationship woes.... one thing that appears being a real breakdown is the sheer *FEAR of vulnerability*... this is taking that MASK OFF.. exposing who we are, deeply to another and finding connection....many times BOTH fear it. 

Where does THIS come from..our upbringings... we learn to hide/mask our real selves.... Sometimes even this does not come out in sweet time, as we just mask other ugly behaviors still trying to avoid it ..... 

I'm all for sharing the Good, the Bad, the UGLY..while being humble enough to our own screw ups / faults before each other......we all have them, irritating quirks...F*** up moments... What else is new under the sun. 

If our partners can't find some of this even a little endearing/ have a laugh or 2.......well then best to move along ...If we can't recognize our own flaws..apologizing, doing better - when we have a selfish moment/ screw up....we will make Horrible partners to anyone, co-habitation or none.



> *mablenc said*: That's a great story. *We both married virgins and left our family homes for the first times*. But I can see the benefits on both sides.


 I LIKE your beginning story Mablenc  ..I don't know if that all panned out well for you both... (I hope)... As from the thoughts on this thread ....that would be doing everything WRONG...not being on your own 1st, gaining independence, some experince under the man's belt-many would suggest. 

We wouldn't have chosen to do it this way (the living together)... I just had a rough home life with my step Mother ....(ironically we get along fabulously today)...

I've always looked upon my husband as my White Knight per say..., walking into my life when he did, he made every hardship "LIGHT" during that time... 

I was one of those Hopeless Romantics that dreamed of young love... College wasn't on the radar, I struggled so bad in Math I might have needed 5 tutors to get through it.. I was an independent enough THINKER - and good with $$, I wasn't worried about proving myself in that way either....My passion was to share my dreams with another who shared the same... we'd work hard together to build them.. take our sweet time...to have kids while we were young so we could grow with them. No regrets .


----------



## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

SimplyAmorous;2948449
I LIKE your beginning story Mablenc [URL=http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/overrunwithsons/media/ANIMATED%20SMILEYS/winking-thumbs-up-smiley-emoticon_zps715c3d74.gif.html said:


> [/URL] ..I don't know if that all panned out well for you both... (I hope)... As from the thoughts on this thread ....that would be doing everything WRONG...not being on your own 1st, gaining independence, some experince under the man's belt-many would suggest.
> 
> We wouldn't have chosen to do it this way (the living together)... I just had a rough home life with my step Mother ....(ironically we get along fabulously today)...
> 
> ...


It worked out great, I gained independence and self value. I married a man who believed in me even when I could not see the real me. My parents did not let me get a degree, they were not for independence. So it went the opposite for me. It took getting married to be independent.but I did marry for love, this was a blessing added.

I can't say it was easy but no regrets.


----------



## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

Tufluv said:


> Stopandmakecoffee- My opinion from hindsight is to definitely live together prior to marriage for 2 years minimum. This is coming from someone who is old fashioned and is on her second marriage. I only moved in with them once we were engaged(me trying to be proper). Thought I was being wise to live together first but I didn't do it long enough. By the 2yr mark I would have know that I would not have been happy with either husband.
> 
> It hurts to type that but it's true. I actually sensed it within the first month of living with each of them but went against my instinct and just chalked it up to getting used to each others habits, etc. I wish I had lived with both husbands for at least 2yrs. I could have run then and I would have been fine. Hope my personal experience helps you.


hi there Tufluv; thank you for sharing 
at this moment i dont plan to date let alone live together with a man; this thread existed because i was curious about this social phenomenon 

once again, thank you  much appreciated


----------



## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

hi CM, thank you for the exploratory post you wrote there :smthumbup:




Caribbean Man said:


> But I have another question.
> Why would a woman want to give up her freedom so easily to a man without him making a LEGALLY BINDING commitment to her?


i really have no idea.but i will try to put myself in another pair of shoes here.
lets say that a real marriage scares the heck out of me, but i want to live together with my SO; so living together kinda does the trick [ok, i frown while writing this; but i couldn't think anything better. im role playing here]



Caribbean Man said:


> Why would you give up your freedom for a man who is not interested in marrying you or even putting an engagement ring on your finger?


because that kind of 'bond' scares me? it's like the mob business: just do it, but dont make it official - type of thing?



Caribbean Man said:


> Ok.
> So you think a " test drive " will allow for compatibility assessment.
> Er, no.
> Compatibility is not a fixed attribute and people change with time.
> ...


Agree; people change every time in every phase of relationship. 2 year mark is the time frame of all the hormones fiesta in our brain:



> The feelings of passionate love, however, do lose their strength over time. Studies have shown that passionate love fades quickly and is nearly gone after two or three years. The chemicals responsible for "that lovin' feeling" (adrenaline, dopamine, norepinephrine, phenylethylamine, etc.) dwindle. Suddenly your lover has faults. Why has he or she changed, you may wonder. Actually, your partner probably hasn't changed at all; it's just that you're now able to see him or her rationally, rather than through the blinding hormones of infatuation and passionate love. At this stage, the relationship is either strong enough to endure, or the relationship ends.


quoted from here.
originally from here.

but is it really them, or is it us? because we could always hijacking our brain because we're all addicts. just a thought, though 




Caribbean Man said:


> My silly advice is, ladies , get you own. Finish your education. If possible, get that dream job/ career, get your car, get your own apartment/ house _first_ and you will have a never ending stream of eligible bachelors wanting to marry you. You now have the power of choice and more leverage.
> 
> In business its called adding value to increase your customer base.
> 
> ...


this is also true, nevertheless.well said, CM


----------



## wife1981 (Jul 5, 2013)

I lived with my husband before we were married. Living together and getting use to each others ways was hard at first. But I don't think it would be any different if we were first married. You can move in together and work things out as you go, or get married and work it out then. What I liked myself about my relationship before we lived together was, I had my own place to go to. I like my alone time and as my as I love my husband, it was nice to have my own space and enjoy it then. My friends were over whenever I wanted, I went out whenever I wanted to, I also came home whenever I wanted to. If you are ready to give that up, than I think you will be okay living together.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> ...please don't fool yourself into thinking you need to live with someone in order to test compatibility.
> Don't give up your freedom without a commitment.
> Don't invest your life and money on losers.


:iagree:


----------



## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Satya said:


> Dolly, I felt exactly this way until recently. Actually, I still completely agree with your sentiment, the issue is that I have 4 girlfriends who are each in this very situation presently. It's extremely telling. They are all looking for marriage, that is their hope. They've agreed to live with their partners feeling exactly as you do and they are all suffering with frequent fights, disagreements, threats of "I'll pack up and leave if you P me off and you won't have X anymore."
> 
> Now I agree that they might not have known the difficulty in living together until it actually happened so maybe finding out that arguments come frequently in this manner is a blessing in disguise. The trouble is that they are now so ingrained in these mens lives for having lived and shared each morning/night with them that it makes it harder for them to get a clue, detach and move on. These men are not going to commit. It's their life and up to them to grow a spine about it, but I look at their situations and think to myself, I wouldn't want to live with anyone who didn't really know that they *want *to be with me.
> 
> ...


I have a slightly different take on this: 

I think it's a darn good thing all your friends have been living with their boyfriends. Apparently by doing so they are finding out things about them that they really don't like, and are finding this out now instead of after saying "I do". Luckily for them, they can move on with minimal drama and get back finding someone more compatible and suitable for them. You say that it's going to be difficult for them to detach and move on, but I guarantee it's a whole lot easier for them to do it now, than it will be after getting married.

This is something I think both Men and Women should do - get to know the other person deeply before saying "I do" or even beginning the planning for a wedding. And that means if you feel the relationship has got "I do... forever" potential, do the living together thing for a while and see what you learn by taking it to that next stage. With that knowledge and experience, you'll be confident and certain when you walk down the isle. 

When you're seeing someone for only a few hours each week, you're seeing them always prepared and on their best behavior. You're not getting glimpses into what Wednesday morning 17 years from now is going to be like with them. That (dating behavior) was enough for your friends to decide "they could be the one" and move in to learn more. Now they are seeing some ugly issues, that as you said, are leading to disagreements, fights, and tantrums with threats. In my book that's a lot of flashing red signs saying "No girl! Not for you!" 

When you live with someone 24/7, after a while you get to see their entire range. At their best, at their worst, On stage, and in unguarded moments. After a while, most people can't keep up their game face 24/7 and revert back to they actually and more honestly are. You learn what it's like to interact with them in all the less exciting areas of life. Nothing wrong with someone putting on best face for dating, but if you're talking about decades as a legal union, why wouldn't anyone want to do so without knowing what the other moments and challenges of a shared life are going to be like?

Both sexes are wanting a lot more out of modern marriage, and aren't as willing to endure a bad marriage as generations before. Seeing 'committing before living together' as 'willing to work through the sticky points' is looking at it the wrong way. The degree to which a person is going to be committed to working things through comes from a lot of things, but doesn't suddenly materialize by saying 'let's get married before living together' And as for "come what may, whatever may surface"... it's far, far better to learn early about the skeletons in the closet and deal breakers than after being entangle and possibly even obligated for them ("Oh dear, it must have slipped my mind to mention the $50k debt to the IRS while were dating... you know, I didn't want to spoil the mood.")

None of this means either partner is less committed. More information and data usually means better decisions and fewer unpleasant surprises. If you're going to promise the next 50 years of your life, and trust someone to have your back (to say nothing of your children's), why wouldn't you do due diligence?

With all that said, I have to ask one question: Are your friends more interested in being married or finding the right guy to spend a life in loving partnership with? Depending on which, they're going to have different focuses and blind spots in their relationships.


----------



## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

I lived with my first husband before marriage. I lived with my current husband before marriage.

I don't know whether it helps the longevity of a marriage or not, but I felt good about it. I never felt it was a hindrance at all.

It just feels so odd to be me - to go from dating and living separately to *bam* living together and married the very next day.

I need the intermediate step myself lol


----------



## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> Just my opinion but I hate that whole "Try before you Buy" argument. I'm not some piece of furniture where you can just "Get your money Back" if you're not satisfied.


That's why analogies are almost never useful. Living together is for far longer than you "test drive" a car precisely because it is so much more important to be sure about a spouse, rather than a mere commoddity.

I should have done it longer both times. The first, our parents both went ballistic and demanded we get married. We should not have listened to them. We ended up doing just the opposite of what we had intended, which was not to get married. 

The second only lived with me immediately prior to getting married. It should have been more like a year. I would never have married her.


----------



## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> This. I've lived with three men that I was serious about. The last one was a keeper. Married him and we will celebrate 22 years next month.
> 
> The key to this is put a time limit on it. Mine was 2 years. If you don't many men won't commit because they don't have to plus its just as easy to get stuck in this as it is married. I had drama leaving because the other guys wanted to get married and I didn't. Don't drag this out hence my two year limit.
> 
> In that 2 years keep your independence, make your own money, don't buy, rent only what you can afford on your own, don't get pregnant, and be willing to leave if its not working.


Thank you for bringing that up Mavash.

Having time limits is something I heartily recommend. Life doesn't slow down and it's good to know if someone else is of the same mind as you about how to spend those future years.

And having a minimum time limit may be just as important as having a maximum time limit. 

Seriously. Nearly everyone knows a couple that got married after way too short a time (2 weeks, 2 months, 1 year) that was ill-advised ended badly but they were caught up in the 'New Relationship Energy' dopamine rush.

After my divorce I set a time limit before I would allow myself to remarry. For me it was 5 years post-D on an absolute calendar and 2.5 years after first meeting. I told every woman that I dated (not first date, but as soon as it looked like a regular thing) Some were cool with it (good  ), some were all "Oh no, I'm not going to wait that long" and I was "Ok, bye, hope you find what you're looking for" and moved on. Some told me they were cool with it, but soon started poking to see if I 'was just saying' that and really didn't mean it, and then got disappointed to learn I had firm boundaries. I think by having that out there I dodged a few bullets, and they can't say that I wasn't honest and upfront about it.

And I don't think my limits were out of line. I've been living with the future Mrs. A for over 2 years now and I'm really confident that I'm going to enjoy the decades ahead with her ( she's starting to stress over wedding preparations though  )


----------



## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

stopandmakecoffee said:


> thanks everyone; i see many point of views; and the insights are interesting.
> 
> but why -correct me if im wrong- i feel like the women are the 'victim'? what if the woman also wants the 'try before you buy' experience? what if both parties want to move in and not keeping score [i read about 'and he owes her nothing'] - scenario?
> 
> ...


There is absolutely nothing wrong with women wanting the 'try before you buy' experience. Men and women are approaching each other as independent equals more than ever before. Both parties should be doing some serious due diligence before entering into a contract with the state. It's called being responsible to ones self and any future offspring.

Sure, marriage can scary, but your not alone. It's scary to a lot of men too (Current divorce laws anyone?) The beauty of it is when two people overcome the fears and build something lasting together that enriches the both of them.

As for research, this might be interesting: Cohabitation no longer a predictor of divorce

As for real-life experiences, as I just posed above, I've been cohabitation and we both feel it's helped us understand what we're getting into for the next several decades (or longer I hope).

Btw, Men can be the 'victim' and taken advantage of just as easily as women can. My brother's second wife neglected to tell him that she hadn't filed any tax returns (state and federal) for the last 3 years, and quickly got pregnant and said "You take care of it". (I should talk about that in the 'working two jobs' thread).


----------



## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

Anubis said:


> Sure, marriage can scary, but your not alone. It's scary to a lot of men too (Current divorce laws anyone?) The beauty of it is when two people overcome the fears and build something lasting together that enriches the both of them.


well, im currently in the middle of divorce process, so i perfectly understand it, lol.



Anubis said:


> As for research, this might be interesting: Cohabitation no longer a predictor of divorce
> 
> As for real-life experiences, as I just posed above, I've been cohabitation and we both feel it's helped us understand what we're getting into for the next several decades (or longer I hope).
> 
> Btw, Men can be the 'victim' and taken advantage of just as easily as women can. My brother's second wife neglected to tell him that she hadn't filed any tax returns (state and federal) for the last 3 years, and quickly got pregnant and said "You take care of it". (I should talk about that in the 'working two jobs' thread).



im sorry to hear what you've been through; and that's why i said 'i thought the free milk is reciprocal'. i thought to get to this kind of decision [to live together]; both side are fully informed and stand on the same ground before they proceed.the 'problem' arises if the couple stand on the different grounds; i.e one wants to tie the knot meanwhile the other doesn't after some times.

i have no personal experience on this; but having myself on the team Soon To Be Divorced ;the idea of "'I do' is forever' is somewhat an illusion we create; an ideal matrimony; the sacred bond. people aren't that noble anymore. well, im sure that there are few lucky and hardworking couples who can maintain their marriage throughout the hellfire, but that piece of paper , all of those rituals and the complicated stuff between families; why have to get through all that if the same commitment, familiarity and all could be achieved by some other method -let's put it this way.

but that's just my silly mind talking.

and thank you for the link. will read it


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

stopandmakecoffee said:


> i really have no idea.but i will try to put myself in another pair of shoes here.
> lets say that a real marriage scares the heck out of me, but i want to live together with my SO; so living together kinda does the trick [ok, i frown while writing this; but i couldn't think anything better. im role playing here]


Ok.

I fully understand your position!
You have been married before and are past a certain age so its quite understandable if you prefer to cohabit instead of getting married.

My post was based on young " first timers."

I personally would not get remarried if my present marriage failed.
Lol, I too ,might just cohabit!

But I fully understand how you feel.


----------



## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

I am a woman, and I lived with both my husbands first before marrying. I never had to talk a man into marrying me or put a time limit on the cohabitation. I had to be dragged into the marriages by the men lol I would be horrified if I had to cajole my fiance/boyfriend into marrying me, and I would not do it. If he's not pleading to be your forever...lose him.


----------



## Miss Metta (Jan 27, 2013)

kokonatsu said:


> I always thought I wouldn't live with my boyfriend before I got married. But now I'm planning to move in. Only because I'm moving to his country, and it's so much easier for him to be there with me, to help me get settled, learn about his culture, etc. if we met while living in the same city, no way I would more in before getting married.
> 
> Before I thought, "not in any circumstances!"
> 
> Now I think it depends on each couple's situation and maturity/commitment level.


I actually did this. Once Mr Wonderful got me half way around the world and away from my family, friends and right to work or access to welfare, he turned into a nasty, controlling man that I had to escape from. I had initially thought the same thing: "I wouldn't be doing this if we were in the same country, I"d still be dating..."

Metta


----------

