# The give and take



## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

Ive been here in the past. Ive poste before. Id like to say today's issues leading me back are different but they really aren't. 
We've been married for 7 years with two kids nowm weve had some nice times together, its true. -and weve been through 
Some really difficult times together as well. 
In any case, oir problems all stem from (at least i believe) me being needy when it comes.to support and affection, and her being unwilling or unable to show love. 
Weve discussed it many times and she has put in some effort, but we always go back to 'this' within a week or two.
Most recently, when i tried to schedule counseling, she threatebed to leave, refused to attend, amd accused me of needing 'extreme affection'. 
Im not a dr but i would bet money she has mental health issues. She has social issues and goes through phases of depression and highes. She also has several family members on psych meds for similar. ...but she refuses.to see a dr.
I want to point out that she insists there is nothing wrong with our marriage and says i am the only one with a problem.
..but when i withhold affection from her, like i have for the last two weeks now, she starts making comments about how she feels like a roommate. ...when in reality all im doing is matching her level of affection.

Im tired of it. I can honestly say that i would be done already if not for the kids.
If we seperate, she will take kids thousands of miles away
Back to her moms house and i dont know how ill handle that.

I feel like nothing when i am with her. Shes put me down many times and refuses to show love. ...amd no im not talking about sex. Im talking about looks, kisses, words, touching,hand holding,hugs,etc. 
She says shes.not that type of person.
She says she is done trying to change

I say i should give up???
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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What do you mean by withholding affection? Do you mean no sex?

You cannot change her. You can change how you interact with her and yourself.

Since she will not go to counseling go yourself. You can champion a lot of changes in your marriage by you changing.

From what you have written we really have on way of knowing if you are expecting excessive support and affection. It's interesting you say that she is not affectionate and yet when you withhold affection she complains. This does not make sense.

You will need to give some examples.


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## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

EleGirl said:


> What do you mean by withholding affection? Do you mean no sex?
> 
> You cannot change her. You can change how you interact with her and yourself.
> 
> ...


It makes perfect sense. First of all, she readily admits to not being affectionate. Its not a debate for us. She wants me to sit by her and touch her and compliment her and encourage her amd cheer her up but she doesnt want to return any of those favors.
And no i dont mean i am with holding sex. ...id have togo alot longer
Than two weeks to be considered someone who is withholding sex. We go without sex for months sometimes.

She also has never liked when i did anything alone amd really seemed.to have kept me from developing any friends. Im not even allowed to be in the backyard for too long without her. But keep in mind she wants me near, but doesnt want to interact with me when i am. 

Ive considered going to counselling alone but she

Will take such offense to that that i dunno if it will be helpful. Whatever i try there will be such pushback.
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## ferndog (Dec 2, 2011)

We'll every relationship (and person) is different but your wife acts much as I did when I was married. For years I wouldn't show affection . My ex would complain a lot and I would try but always went back to the same place. She often said I was a roommate not a husband. She offered to go to concealing but I always refused because I thought we could work it out ourselves. Well communication broke down and she sent me an email wanting divorce. Once I stopped seeing her for a while I was able to see my lack of affection and deppresion problems (I honestly never knew I had them till I had time to focus on myself). I tried to tell her I was sorry an that I would change . Now divorced (no kids so that makes it easier). She never believed I would change. Truth is I have 
And I'm able to even admit that I need more work still . But in her eyes I'll always be the same old me. 

So basically maybe your wife just needs to realize her issues. Maybe she needs space side blinding to get her attention. 
Maybe the issue is that she doesn't love herself so how can she show you love? 
Maybe write her a note and leave for the weekend. 
Something like
"I'm not happy. I love you but I'm on the verge of no return this is the last chance for us. If you value our marriage join me in therapy because I need you there . I need you there for me and our kids. Do it for the promise we made each other, I love you and want to be happy with you. If you love me please go"

Something like that but in your words. I'm always looking for the bright side and I pull for marriages staying together since mine didn't ;(
I love my ex with all my heart so I just don't want this to end for you of there is still love there. 


Wishing you the best of luck. Hey hears another idea. Don't even talk to her about how you need affection. Maybe take her out to eat and take your photo album. Show her your wedding photos etc. buy her flowers talk about old times, tell her why you love her. Maybe her eyes. Her smile etc . 
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## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

ferndog said:


> We'll every relationship (and person) is different but your wife acts much as I did when I was married. For years I wouldn't show affection . My ex would complain a lot and I would try but always went back to the same place. She often said I was a roommate not a husband. She offered to go to concealing but I always refused because I thought we could work it out ourselves. Well communication broke down and she sent me an email wanting divorce. Once I stopped seeing her for a while I was able to see my lack of affection and deppresion problems (I honestly never knew I had them till I had time to focus on myself). I tried to tell her I was sorry an that I would change . Now divorced (no kids so that makes it easier). She never believed I would change. Truth is I have
> And I'm able to even admit that I need more work still . But in her eyes I'll always be the same old me.
> 
> So basically maybe your wife just needs to realize her issues. Maybe she needs space side blinding to get her attention.
> ...


Thanks for the post. Your story does sound similar and i like your suggestion..
Having said that i am now naturally going to poke holes in it.
Ha
I cant really go anywhere. Shes a serious codependamt. She doesnt even
Want me to go to work much less away for a weeken
I know shes not supposed to like it, but i can tell u wjat will happen...and maybe u can tell me if this is 
Good or bad... She will read the letter i left, call her mom, and start packing for her trip back home with the kids.

It will still give her time away, but she wont be alone to think about it. Shell be at her moms livingthere
Most likely being told everything she wants to hear. ...and who knows if wed ever recover from that.
I have thought of writing my feelings down because god knows i cant 
Discuss it with her anymore. She gets defensive and starts packing.

We have tried date nights and ive tried flowers and other romantic gestures. The problem isnt me not being romantic though. Nothing changed. Weve established thst she wants me to continue showing love..she just isnt the type of person to show it back (her words). 
As i mentioned, she has also put me down several times in words that one doesnt tend to forget..so we have that hanging over our marriage as well. 
Not sure if there is a fix until she has that moment where she wakes up as u did.
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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do you live in the USA? If so you can stop her from taking your children out of country.

As long as you allow her to set all limits in your life you are a willing participant in what is going on. No can help you if you find a reason why every bit of advice you are given cannot be achieved.

Go to counseling. You have two choices, do not tell her and work it in around your work shedule. Or do tell her and do go. If she gets upset tell her that she will simply have to deal with it.


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## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

EleGirl said:


> Do you live in the USA? If so you can stop her from taking your children out of country.
> 
> As long as you allow her to set all limits in your life you are a willing participant in what is going on. No can help you if you find a reason why every bit of advice you are given cannot be achieved.
> 
> Go to counseling. You have two choices, do not tell her and work it in around your work shedule. Or do tell her and do go. If she gets upset tell her that she will simply have to deal with it.


I live in usa and she would be moving to other side of usa and i know from experience there isnt alot i can do about that as a man. More often than not the judge is going to side with female. 

I guess u r right about counselling. Even me mentioning it has her packing bags though,bluff or not, so itd have to be a secret
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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> I live in usa and she would be moving to other side of usa and i know from experience there isnt alot i can do about that as a man. More often than not the judge is going to side with female.


You're making a LOT of assumptions.

1.) GO see a divorce attorney NEXT WEEK. Explain your situation; see what the liklihood is that a judge would order your wife NOT to take the children out of state. Find out EXACTLY what you can/cannot expect from a divorce in YOUR state with YOUR situation.

2.) If it seems likely that your wife WOULD be allowed to move the children cross-country, then start NOW looking for a new job in the area that your children will be living in. Just because you're splitting, does NOT mean you should be "OUT" of your children's lives (especially as you suspect she has a mental disorder). Do NOT tell your wife, just start looking into building a new life for yourself and your children.

3.) When you decide you've had ENOUGH and you want a REAL marriage with someone who VALUES you, you'll find a way to tell your wife you want a divorce, and you won't give a DAMN how angry she becomes. And, when she packs up, so what! You will have already been a step ahead of THAT move (either with a court-order forbidding it, or a new job in that area).

You are allowing yourself to feel like a "victim" of your wife's behavior. That is NOT true. You have been a WILLING PARTICIPANT in letting her have her way ALL THE TIME because it's easier than confronting and requiring change. You accept her excuses/behavior/decisions and fume about them silently. You're passive/aggressive (you're talking to the 'queen' here!)

YOU will NEVER be treated better until you DEMAND it. Unfortunately, your children are learning how to be men/women, husbands/wives by WATCHING YOU AND YOUR WIFE. Is *THIS* the correct idea you want them to have of marriage? If NOT, then GET OUT, FIX YOURSELF, find someone who treats you right, and SHOW YOUR KIDS how a good healthy marriage is SUPPOSED to look.


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