# If you love them let them go right?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What the F is this guy on?











Pretty much he's saying the opposite...

Here I was looking up videos to help me move on because if I love someone I would let them go right?
Then I come across this guy who tells me if I let them go I'm not loving them. What? 🤦‍♂️ 

Anyway, long story short, I mentioned I was lazy, selfish and took my partner for granted. I have a problem with emotional shutdowns but then I wonder if my emotional shutdowns are truly to blame for the end of our relationship or did I shutdown so that I could knowingly push her away to reach a void of emotion so that she can make her own informed decision for her life, because deep down, very deep down inside I knew that I did not want her to stay with me and be unhappy just because she didn't want to leave, with a persistent issue that we could not fix for 2 years; love languages/expectations/standards/effort/etc etc

That's exactly what I did before the break, she told me she could never leave me, I pushed her away and told her that I did not want her to stay with me just because she isn't able to leave me. I forced no contact on her until she makes up her mind and she cried for 20 hours straight. Was I being selfish then? Cold-hearted? Emotionally unavailable? Or was I doing it out of love? Real love because I actually worried for her future and I wanted her to re-access and make a decision based on her own happiness for her own damn future?

And yeah, duh she made the decision to split.

But is THAT even real love? Or is real love, as this guy says - commitment. Commitment to do whatever it takes to make it work? Not giving up and making excuses - like I did, the same commitment we both failed in, I gave up trying to change she gave up trying to make it work, meaning our relationship in the end wasn't even real enough despite our connection. In the end I apparently pushed her to the breaking point and taught her nothing but to be just as selfish as me and to give up because in the end we are both replaceable, yet a part of me feels pride in her for doing so?

If I don't love her by letting her go why do I feel so much pride? I am confused as ****. It's for the best right? Even if not - once a woman says she's done, she's done. Right? And "if you love me you will let me go find someone who can give me everything from beginning to end", right? What is love and what is selfish? To fight or to let her go? I say to let her go. Not to mention only so much dignity you can sacrifice. But my mind is a mess, so folks, tell me what you think.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

You do fight for a good relationship but that fight is in lieu of what you did. Once you made the decision to push her away you don't get to reverse course & try to fix it now. You broke it. She has zero reason to trust you. She's done crying. Leave her alone. 

Next time address the issues in the relationship Don't smash it to bits then try to fix it later.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

D0nnivain said:


> You do fight for a good relationship but that fight is in lieu of what you did. Once you made the decision to push her away you don't get to reverse course & try to fix it now. You broke it. She has zero reason to trust you. She's done crying. Leave her alone.
> 
> Next time address the issues in the relationship Don't smash it to bits then try to fix it later.


Why the hell should I, or anyone fight for a relationship when in the end she, or their partner isn't even happy and wants out?

In hindsight if I didn't push her away would we really have been able to sort out our issues over the last 2 years? She told her herself in the end that all the little things I didn't do made her slowly fall out of love until she reached her breaking point.

And after the breaking point the sheer number of crappy excuses she pulls out about why she wants out like 👍 the fk you stayed then?

So if anything we dodged a fking bullet when I forced her to cut loose. Our issues here: His needs, her needs, not good enough...

This is the endgame.

EDIT: Forgive my harsh tone, I am simply emotionally charged. I truly appreciate being challenged so lay it on me.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What the hell is truly selfish?

Keeping her tied down, when she keeps expressing her unhappiness and keep trying when we tried and failed for 2 years?

Or force her to harden her heart and make a non emotionally charged decision about her own happiness for her own future?

You know reading up on my dismissive avoidant attachment style and how it played a part in all this, the ability I have to emotionally detach even seems to work for crisis points so hell... I question if change is required or in the end did I do the right thing all along and gave her a damn backbone.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)




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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Let her go, man. You can't give her the "little things" she needs. She's done. Let her be done.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If you have to fight for a marriage or relationship you don’t have one.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

You mind ****ed her long enough. Learn let go.


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

I'm not sure what "fighting for a relationship" means. But it seems to also mean to harass the women that is trying to get rid. And sometimes by trying to drive all the habits that she's fed up with.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> What the hell is truly selfish?
> 
> Keeping her tied down, when she keeps expressing her unhappiness and keep trying when we tried and failed for 2 years?
> 
> ...


Sorry dude but dismissive avoidants are the worse, they pull in even the most secure and then push and then withdraw in an endless cycle. Its exhausting to be with someone like you, in my experience, dismissive avoidants are the destroyers of self worth. When coupled with an anxious it can be dam near abusive. Do yourself and your future partners a favour and do the hard work on yourself.

Its not your job to toughen someone up. I was in a relationship with a dismissive and they made me doubt my sanity in the end. Thankfully for me, they moved on to someone else before I was totally destroyed.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm not sure you should lay all the blame at OP's feet.

His ex seemed to expect things that are probably unreasonable, and definitely not sustainable.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I'm not sure you should lay all the blame at OP's feet.
> 
> His ex seemed to expect things that are probably unreasonable, and definitely not sustainable.


Im not laying blame at ops feet, just asking him to work on his unhealthy attachment style. If his wife was/is an anxious, it would explain a lot of her unreasonable expectations also. Its a common c codependant dynamic.

Dismissives suffer too, just in a different way. However, due to their formative experiences, they very rarely suffer the same level of emotional pain others do, due to their learned ability to shutdown emotions


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’m concerned about how much ownership you take, words like ‘forcing her to harden her heart’ ‘giving her a damn backbone’, how many times you talk of a ‘fight’, feeling ‘pride’ because if it.

This is a person, she is who she is, not a puppet that you can turn into this or that. She came to her own conclusions and she is who she is. You probably didn’t play a part in her construction all that much. Please leave the girl alone, she can feel pride in her decision, or not, if that’s what she wants. She’s the master of herself.

Turn the focus more on you and who you are, not what you think you successfully turned her into. Be angry sure, but not at her. It’s a breakup, after all. You’re allowed to lose. Losing’s ok.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Jamieboy said:


> Im not laying blame at ops feet, just asking him to work on his unhealthy attachment style. If his wife was/is an anxious, it would explain a lot of her unreasonable expectations also. Its a common c codependant dynamic.
> 
> Dismissives suffer too, just in a different way. However, due to their formative experiences, they very rarely suffer the same level of emotional pain others do, due to their learned ability to shutdown emotions


I think a lot of her unreasonable expectations were because she was 21. I think 18ish when they met. Do you know OP's history?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I've already let her go and I haven't spoken to her for two weeks now so what the hell?

And hell I let her go before she even broke up with me and forgot why the hell I did that until weeks later.

I'm not mad at her all why would I be? And why shouldn't I be proud of her? She finally decided to end it for herself!

Saved us more years of BS


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jamieboy said:


> Sorry dude but dismissive avoidants are the worse, they pull in even the most secure and then push and then withdraw in an endless cycle. Its exhausting to be with someone like you, in my experience, dismissive avoidants are the destroyers of self worth. When coupled with an anxious it can be dam near abusive. Do yourself and your future partners a favour and do the hard work on yourself.
> 
> Its not your job to toughen someone up. I was in a relationship with a dismissive and they made me doubt my sanity in the end. Thankfully for me, they moved on to someone else before I was totally destroyed.


You're not answering the question.

Even if I switch to secure attachment style how would I have handled the situation and what difference would it have made?

Affirmed her feelings, not shut down, don't have fears that she is unhappy. The last part how the F? I would have to be in denial to be secure.

Now I paint myself as some monster it seems by admitting I am dismissive avoidant however I did become vulnerable, I did allow myself to depend on her and her to depend on me, we were very intimate, and even though I failed to have the initiative to kiss her which was her love language I did not deny it to her and if I did it was to play.

But YES, when the fights happen boom. All that goes out the damn window. It's all accusatory with her, always, never, nothing I ever did was ever good enough.

Don't baby her enough, don't show that I care, don't start enough topics, didn't text in time, don't show enough effort, look at what this guy did for his girlfriend why aren't you doing that for me, nearly four years of this crap how much can one take after knowing deep down she just wants out?

Not to mention her admittance at the end. Also why the F she pushed me for engagement while still hoping secretly I would change is beyond me and now I have a damn diamond to resell. I should have stuck to my guns in the past when I said I wanted us to resolve all our issues first but for her, not being engaged was an issue in itself 🤦‍♂️ but I did it anyway because I loved her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

NTA said:


> I'm not sure what "fighting for a relationship" means. But it seems to also mean to harass the women that is trying to get rid. And sometimes by trying to drive all the habits that she's fed up with.


Exactly, so what's wrong with just letting her go?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> You're not answering the question.
> 
> Even if I switch to secure attachment style how would I have handled the situation and what difference would it have made?
> 
> ...


These behaviors of hers are not healthy for a relationship. If she treats a future partner the same way, that nothing he does is good enough (extreme demands and chastisement when you aren't doing these things to her liking), there will be the same issues. 

She wasn't happy, she should have ended the relationship.

She may learn, in time, with more relationships, that her demands and expectations are unreasonable and that the way she reacted to you about it was pretty ****ty.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

If your gut says your partner wants out, and my gut which kept me alive in my difficult youth - was fking right in the end as per her admittance, then why am I the monster for forcing her to make the decision? 

I guess I could be the 'gentleman' and dump her myself but I loved her for who she was not who I wanted her to be and wanted it to be her choice. Besides she made me promise I won't leave her bc I didn't feel like I was good enough, that it was to be her decision so hell I kept my promise.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Exactly, so what's wrong with just letting her go?


I don't know your whole story, so I'm basing this only on what I've read here. 

My impression is you didn't let her go because you loved her. You let her go because you are unwilling or incapable of working on yourself. You let go because you didn't want to do what was needed to fix the relationship.

I think the guy in these videos has it exactly right. Isn't something you love worth fighting for? Especially if you are losing it due to something you have done and can control. 

In your case the woman didn't even want to leave. You didn't set her free, you pushed her away. You were just exhibiting your self admitted lazy and selfish qualities. She wasn't worth the effort needed to fix yourself. 

Again, I don't know what part your GF played in your relationship issues, but I get the impression you let her go as much for you as you did for her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Livvie said:


> These behaviors of hers are not healthy for a relationship. If she treats a future partner the same way, that nothing he does is good enough (extreme demands and chastisement when you aren't doing these things to her liking), there will be the same issues.
> 
> She wasn't happy, she should have ended the relationship.
> 
> She may learn, in time, with more relationships, that her demands and expectations are unreasonable and that the way she reacted to you about it was pretty ****ty.


Or she can find her dream boat 🚢 as "I want someone who can give me everything from beginning to end"

Who knows really, she's a wonderful person despite these issues and she just needs to find her unicorn 🦄


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't know your whole story, so I'm basing this only on what I've read here.
> 
> My impression is you didn't let her go because you loved her. You let her go because you are unwilling or incapable of working on yourself. You let go because you didn't want to do what was needed to fix the relationship.


I didnt even know it was possible until all this.

Could I have put in more work if I knew maybe? Perhaps.

Did I realistically have the energy to do so with all the stressful changes to my work due to the lockdown and covid? No.



> I think the guy in these videos has it exactly right. Isn't something you love worth fighting for? Especially if you are losing it due to something you have done and can control.
> 
> In your case the woman didn't even want to leave. You didn't set her free, you pushed her away. You were just exhibiting your self admitted lazy and selfish qualities. She wasn't worth the effort needed to fix yourself.
> 
> Again, I don't know what part your GF played in your relationship issues, but I get the impression you let her go as much for you as you did for her.


******** she didn't want to leave, she wanted to leave she just didn't want to go through the pain of doing what she has to do. What she told me after all this reaffirmed the facts.

Not to mention all the nitpicking and starting who knows how many fights when I can count the number of fights I started over the course of our relationship with one hand.

But yeah, I let her go as much for myself as I did for her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

All the things I did for her, it's expected. All the things I didn't do for her, she slowly fell out of love until I also had enough and then she reached her breaking point.

Meh


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Letting them go if they want to go is fine. Passive-aggressively pushing them away because you're unsure of what you or they want is the opposite of love and empowering them.


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## MateHoney57 (Sep 14, 2021)

You do fight for a good relationship


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You are torturing yourself with all of this over-analyzing. You knew fairly early in that she had expectations that you were unable or unwilling to meet. You were not compatible.

Accept that it wasn't meant to be.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Married but Happy said:


> Letting them go if they want to go is fine. Passive-aggressively pushing them away because you're unsure of what you or they want is the opposite of love and empowering them.


She would not have left without that push and I was not in the position anymore to pull the plug myself because of the promise I made. 

Never making that promise again.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> You are torturing yourself with all of this over-analyzing. You knew fairly early in that she had expectations that you were unable or unwilling to meet. You were not compatible.
> 
> Accept that it wasn't meant to be.


I am, I'm on my last legs.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I just want to say that loving her has been good for you. You have definitely grown as a result of her love and your ability to love.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> I just want to say that loving her has been good for you. You have definitely grown as a result of her love and your ability to love.


How so? I seem to be coming full circle.

As much as I have learnt, I am becoming as cynical as I was before I met her, realising the fairy tale that it was.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> How so? I seem to be coming full circle.
> 
> As much as I have learnt, I am becoming as cynical as I was before I met her, realising the fairy tale that it was.


You have matured and are not as bitter or flighty. You have a better sense of your place in the world. You now know that you are capable of love and *will* find it again.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> You have matured and are not as bitter or flighty. You have a better sense of your place in the world. You now know that you are capable of love and *will* find it again.


Maybe, and right now I'm thinking to be able to find love again I have to break a promise and unfriend her from FB, get rid of all reminders and momentos and stop looking back.

Including a 1 month ban from TAM so I dont find myself back on the hamster wheel when now I know what I need to do to get off it. I need to move on.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> How so? I seem to be coming full circle.
> 
> As much as I have learnt, I am becoming as cynical as I was before I met her, realising the fairy tale that it was.


Don't be cynical. Maybe be more discerning, and willing to let go of a relationship that isn't working. You two should probably have terminated the relationship long ago when she kept at you on and on about how you weren't living up to her (very unrealistic and unreasonable) expectations.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Livvie said:


> Don't be cynical. Maybe be more discerning, and willing to let go of a relationship that isn't working. You two should probably have terminated the relationship long ago when she kept at you on and on about how you weren't living up to her (very unrealistic and unreasonable) expectations.


Thats the problem with love, it's blind.

High chemistry low compatibility relationship, the chemistry was intense from the moment we laid eyes on each other and that's the source of our happiness despite the fact that in the end there was no real future with our issues.

Its bloody tragic if you ask me, I don't regret it because I can't, but I find it difficult to see the light at the end of all this as I age and see my options.

Granted, I've only been single 2 weeks but based on my past with my exs and now from like maybe 40 new contacts majority being so meh I'm a tad disillusioned if I can find such chemistry again.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Granted, I've only been single 2 weeks but based on my past with my exs and now from like maybe 40 new contacts majority being so meh I'm a tad disillusioned if I can find such chemistry again.


Overwhelming chemistry is fun. Everyone should get to try it at least once in their life.

But a little chemistry with a lot of compatibility and an average amount of willingness to both try for the sake of the relationship and ignore the inconsequential is a better recipe for long term success.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> If your gut says your partner wants out, and *my gut which kept me alive in my difficult youth - was fking right in the end* as per her admittance, then why am I the monster for forcing her to make the decision?
> 
> I guess I could be the 'gentleman' and dump her myself but I loved her for who she was not who I wanted her to be and wanted it to be her choice. Besides she made me promise I won't leave her bc I didn't feel like I was good enough, that it was to be her decision so hell I kept my promise.


This is the source of some of your self-defeating coping skills, in my opinion...THIS might be where to start when trying to examine how to move forward in a loving relationship -- some people might say you subconsciously created the very situation that you were terrified of having happen. 

The problem is, a survival mechanism IS NOT usually the right way to relate in a loving relationship. It's possible that your inner self, that had to be very reactive and suspicious to protect you in your formative years, perceived dangers when presented with unconditional love and reciprocal expectations that caused your shut downs and detachment.

And loving relationships are NOT supposed to be teaching points for how to detach and maintain space - they are supposed to challenge us with how to connect and be giving and be vulnerable with another person (and sometimes that includes meeting needs for space and detachment). 

You aren't a monster at all, and I don't see that you forced her to make a decision. She was very clear with you about what she needed and wanted to feel loved. She was hopeful that you would be the man who wanted to give that to her. It's ok that you didn't want to and/or couldn't...but when she lost her hope and trust in you, she closed the door of her heart to you, so she could now detach and move on.

You didn't meet EACHOTHER'S needs...but the problem with that for you is that very few healthy women who are trying to connect in a loving way with a partner are going to be happy with how you are unwilling to stop shutting down emotionally when there is a conflict. That type of coldness blocks love and damages trust and respect.

You need to work on that, because her expectations with that weren't unreasonable.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cletus said:


> Overwhelming chemistry is fun. Everyone should get to try it at least once in their life.
> 
> But a little chemistry with a lot of compatibility and an average amount of willingness to both try for the sake of the relationship and ignore the inconsequential is a better recipe for long term success.


 haha yeah

Not to mention cradle robbing! Nope, once per lifetime is enough lol

I dunno if I can settle with just abit of chemistry, it took overwhelming chemistry to finally shatter my walls and make me vulnerable so think my luck is fked for the future mate hahaha


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> This is the source of some of your self-defeating coping skills, in my opinion...THIS might be where to start when trying to examine how to move forward in a loving relationship -- some people might say you subconsciously created the very situation that you were terrified of having happen.
> 
> The problem is, a survival mechanism IS NOT usually the right way to relate in a loving relationship. It's possible that your inner self, that had to be very reactive and suspicious to protect you in your formative years, perceived dangers when presented with unconditional love and reciprocal expectations that caused your shut downs and detachment.
> 
> ...


The problem right now is that my gut was still right. My shutdowns had nothing to do with her expectations and standards of what she needed, it did not create a self forfilling prophecy, it simply identified the danger and rightfully so.

But I kept at it, I stayed vulnerable for the most part if I didn't I wouldn't have invested so much in our relationship to the point of a diamond ring. Yes, eventually I did shutdown multiple times during conflict.

And she did not connect in a loving way, she nagged like she nagged her dad in their dysfunctional marriage, several of my exs approached conflict alot better but the issue was I never loved them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I bet if we knew the whole story, we'd find that you pushed her away for your own benefit, not hers. 

Love is not worth fighting for if you're actually fighting! Love is not worth fighting for if you have discovered you are on completely different life paths you each feel strongly about. Love is not worth fighting for if neither of you has respect for the other anymore. In your case, you didn't have enough respect for her to let her make up her own mind whether to leave or keep working on it, to weigh her own priorities. As you said, you shut down. That's you. You didn't want to deal with it anymore. And that's fine, but don't spin it that it was an unselfish act for her. Although I do generally agree that if a person tells you anything that conveys he's not good enough for you, you should believe them. Because otherwise, they wouldn't be saying it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I dunno if I can settle with just abit of chemistry, it took overwhelming chemistry to finally shatter my walls and make me vulnerable so think my luck is fked for the future mate hahaha


So why is that not a lesson to take forward? A lot of chemistry shattered your walls. And your world didn't end (even if it feels right now like it did). What about this whole process would make you say it wasn't worth it for a more compatible partner?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

DownByTheRiver said:


> In your case, you didn't have enough respect for her to let her make up her own mind whether to leave or keep working on it, to weigh her own priorities.


Didn't I? If I just let her go on about how she can't leave me despite the fact that she kept showing me how I'm not good enough how is that letting her make up her own mind?



> As you said, you shut down. That's you. You didn't want to deal with it anymore. And that's fine, but don't spin it that it was an unselfish act for her. *Although I do generally agree that if a person tells you anything that conveys he's not good enough for you, you should believe them*. Because otherwise, they wouldn't be saying it.


Exactly.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cletus said:


> So why is that not a lesson to take forward? A lot of chemistry shattered your walls. And your world didn't end (even if it feels right now like it did). What about this whole process would make you say it wasn't worth it for a more compatible partner?


Maybe I'm just looking at the odds and getting disillusioned because hell I joined this forum when I was in my 20s. I'm now almost 36 and have a long track record of failed relationships and ONLY learnt what the lovey dovey feeling was at 32 and it took me that long to actually find high chemistry. 

I dont know how I can even dare the stars align again.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hey Dude, good to see you still posting brother. I've been breezing in and out over the last few years. Been battling cancer for the last year, and happy to say, I've won.

As for your post; I've had this discussion with LOTS of people. Now that I am twice divorced, and the second was a perfect illustration of my cardinal rule:

"Never, ever, fight for someone who is not willing to fight for you."

If they want out? 

Godspeed. Go find your grace and happiness, elsewhere.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> Thats the problem with love, it's blind.
> 
> High chemistry low compatibility relationship, the chemistry was intense from the moment we laid eyes on each other and that's the source of our happiness despite the fact that in the end there was no real future with our issues.
> 
> ...


High Chemistry isn't love it's a movie cliche.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> I'm now almost 36 and have a long track record of failed relationships and ONLY learnt what the lovey dovey feeling was at 32 and it took me that long to actually find high chemistry.
> 
> I dont know how I can even dare the stars align again.


I was younger when I met DH, but before him I had a string of lovely men I had low to medium chemistry with and 2...count 'em, 2 ... that I had high chemistry with. 2. Out of over 30. I figurd my odds weren't good of finding that again. Then I met DH and the chemistry was intense. Still is over 20 years later.

It will happen or it won't. Live your best life and who knows? Maybe it happens again and with someone more compatible.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Been battling cancer for the last year, and happy to say, I've won.


Yay! Let's hear it for the man! 🥳 👏👏👏


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This is more of a philosophical belief rather than any nuts and bolts points or advice but I think men in general are the gatekeepers of relationships and set the tone, parameters and objectives of relationships.

(Conversely, women are the gatekeepers of sex but that’s for another topic)

As men we decide The Who, what’s, when, where and how’s of relationships and women decide if they will go along with that or not. 

In other words a man will decide if he will enter a relationship at all or not and if so, what the terms and conditions will be for him to be in said relationship.

He presents those terms and conditions and the woman decides if that is for her and if she will agree to that or not.

That can be anything from a ONS behind the dumpster outside the strip joint to a FWB arraignment, to proposing marriage/home/family. 

I have never formally broken up with anyone in 57 years. 

For a couple women in my past, I wanted to have a serious, exclusive relationship and they ...shall we say... declined ( ie dumped me or cheated or whatever)

There’s been a number of others that when they asked the “where are we going with this?” I was open and upfront that I was not looking for serious LTR and they opted out.

A number of people I haven’t contacted them in 30 years and I haven’t heard from them since. 

Where I am going with this is as men, we need to set the conditions and parameters of what WE will accept and what we will do in a relationship and women will either decide to come into that frame or they won’t. 

If our terms and conditions and parameters are not what they want, what they do from there is their choice.

I think we have an obligation to be honest about our conditions and objectives so they can make an informed decision.

But I do not believe we need to either dump them or remain with them for their own good.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MateHoney57 said:


> You do fight for a good relationship


If one needs to “fight,” then it’s not a good relationship. 

People only fight for relationships that aren’t working. 

Therefor if they “win”, That means they have won a dysfunctional relationship. Woo hoo!


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Maybe I'm just looking at the odds and getting disillusioned because hell I joined this forum when I was in my 20s. I'm now almost 36 and have a long track record of failed relationships and ONLY learnt what the lovey dovey feeling was at 32 and it took me that long to actually find high chemistry.
> 
> I dont know how I can even dare the stars align again.


Dude, you seriously need to get out of your own head. 
Stop pontificating and wallowing in your failures and doubts and wondering what’s in her head and what you should do about it, etc.

Figure out what you want your life to look like and what kind of marriage you want, based on the kind of man you want to be. 
And start improving yourself to be in a better position to take control of your situation and move it towards what you want.

You need an action plan to improve yourself to be the kind of man that’s capable of leading the kind of marriage you want.

Then stop thinking and start doing.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> What the F is this guy on?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with the idea that, if they are threatening to pack their bags, help them pack their bags.


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