# Heartbroken and Growing Impatient



## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

Hi Everyone, 

This is my first thread, besides my intro. I've been checking out this and other boards for a while and do see lots of people in similar situations, though mine seems a bit unusual. 

I am 36 and have been with my wife for 14 years 10.5 of which we have been married. We have three young children together, 8, 6 and 3 years old.

About 3 and a half months ago, after an argument one day, my wife told me she would like me to move out of the house, in a trial separation of sorts. I was taken a bit back by this. 

I did sense something was building with her. She had started a new job in May that was very demanding and required her to work late and travel. I stepped up and took over both drop off and pick up duties for the kids school/daycare as before it was more of a split. I typically do most of the cooking and cleaning anyway, plus we have an Au Pair so we do have help. 

The argument developed on the tail end of a business trip where she was gone almost a full week. Upon getting home she started complaining how things were messy and how I didn't care about the house and that the garage was a mess. I mistakenly got defensive, I mean she was gone an entire week, I was left with all of the responsibilities of the kids and the house. Did she expect I'd finally get to the garage while she was gone?

Then it progressed, there have been problems for years. She will always love me but doesn't feel in love with me. She isn't happy and this is not how she pictured her life. She thought we would be more financially secure by now and we are not. She doesn't think I care enough about her and she wanted me to leave. 

I told her I wasn't leaving. I spend most of the time with the kids, I do pick ups and drop offs and homework. They cry for me when they wake up in the middle of the night. She was free to go if she wanted. I work full time. She makes a bit more money than I do, but not when you divide by all the hours we work. I've never been unemployed and have consistently earned 6 figures throughout out marriage and managed to be a present parent and a present husband. 

In the end I decided to start sleeping upstairs in a spare bedroom as a compromise as we really can't afford a second apartment and all of my family is in New York and we live in Florida.

Rewind a bit: 

Have I been perfect? Hell no. We were in our mid twenties when we got married. I was young and naive. I may have ignored some early signs of turmoil inadvertently. There were times during the pregnancy where we both gained lots of weight and I didn't look very good. We had babies sleeping in our beds and we were not intimate very often. We did pump out 3 babies in 5 years so there were lots of ups and downs as far as intimacy, weight gains and losses as well as stress and arguments. I had a hard time getting childcare so we can have alone time. My parents couldn't or wouldn't help as much as my wife thought they should (financially and babysitting) which caused other stressors. The fact that I didn't demand more of them upset her. She is an only child and only grandchild so a bit spoiled. I have three siblings, my parents are not wealthy and my mother would later develop cancer. My other siblings are kind of deadbeats and I was the successful son and didn't want to burden them. 

In the end though I was always supportive of her. If she wanted to work, or stay home (she changed her mind a lot), what care she needed/wanted for the babies. I literally went to every OB appointment for all three pregnancies. I'd leave work or take off if she felt sick, woke up in the middle of the night to keep her company while she breast fed. Woke up myself and let her sleep so I can bottle feed and change diapers even though I had work the next day. Whatever it took to make her happy, or what I thought would make her happy I did. 

I have never cheated on my wife, never have come close. I would never put myself in a situation to even be tempted as my family is the most important thing to me. I've never ever hit her. I don't have expensive hobbies or gamble or have made financial decisions without consulting her. 

I routinely wake up early to help my wife get out of the house to her early gym class that she likes to take and sacrifice my own work to let her work. She is brilliant and currently a step away from becoming an executive at a large company. She has more potential for earnings, I admit it, so I do the best I can to help her achieve her goals and dreams while still earning a pretty good living where I can be flexible enough to pick up the slack with the kids. 

In early 2018, my wife was working with this personal trainer/ "life coach". The trainer was a female. My wife became a bit enamoured with her and was acting strangely. She was shutting me out and I noticed she started sleeping with her phone under her pillow. Going against my belief that she deserves privacy, I couldn't' help myself. I took her phone quietly one night and started reading texts with this trainer. It turns out there was a bit of an emotional affair with this person going on. SHe even kissed her once, on New Years Eve, which happens to be the anniversary we met. I must have been distracted (and a bit drunk) entertaining when it occurred.

I was devastated. She woke up in a panic and begged for the phone back and asked me to stop reading. So I did. I was hurt angry and demanded she stopped seeing the trainer. She wouldn't. SO I contacted the trainer which caused further strains. The trainer assured me that my wife just had a girl crush and that she was straight and not interested in my wife. 

We started seeing a therapist, though the therapist focused more on my wife and didn't require me to go very often. I started focusing on myself. I got a new better paying and more fulfilling job and started working out again. Dieting came easy as I was love sick and had no appetite. I got fit fast. I shed 50 lbs and added 15 in muscle. I shaved my head and let go of the few wisps of hair remaining and grew more confident.

At this point my wife and the "life coach" had a falling out and it got ugly. I'm talking this woman calling CPS making false claims and the cops at our house several times. My wife ended up being served a restraining order at work causing her to get fired. Legal fees ensued and the restraining order upheld preventing my wife from visiting our won HOA clubhouse during certain times for a year. Turns out this life coach specialized in ruining marriages. We had uncovered some other people hard done by her. The strange part is how she had a hold on my wife who is typically so strong and it was so out of character. Almost like she had a spell on her. 

I supported my wife throughout. I took her side and was determined not to let this woman destroy us. Along with my improved physical appearance this helped a lot. We started becoming more affectionate and planning date nights and little get aways. Things got really good and would remain so for nearly a year. 

During the good period my wife took a job which was relatively low stress compared to what she was used to. She didn't have much choice it was what she could find. Things were good. Then as mentioned this past May she took this more demanding higher paying job and that's when I started noticing things falling apart again. I tried to prevent another breakdown but maybe didn't do enough. I don't know I wish I could go back and try something else but I can't. She is more irritable. Seemingly blames me for all of life's problems.

I am confused and hurt. I thought she might be cheating on me again (she denies the trist with the trainer was cheating but it was). She insists she's not. Some snooping and her schedule make me believe she is not. I mean unless she is an evil mastermind I doubt she is. 

We are seeing a new therapist, but our joint sessions seems to strain things more so we have been doing solo sessions. Things seem to start getting better and progressing, then she regresses again. 

Its very hot and cold. She expects me to carry on doing everything a husband would do. She texts me when she gets yelled at at work and needs comfort. When she was sick recently I stayed home to take her to the doctor and make her soup. She locked her keys in the car and calls me. She asks for back or foot rubs when she is sore from the gym or wearing heels. We have our normal nightly routine where we watch TV together and chat. We do things together as a family (i.e. have a short Disney trip planned this weekend and a trip to NY for Christmas). But in the end she won't let me (or invite me because I've stopped asking) back into bed and obviously no sex or intimacy. Prior to 4 months ago we were pretty routinely getting it in at least 4 times per month, before her new job even more. 

She still undresses in front of me, showers in front of me. It's very difficult for me. I'm very attracted to her. I love her (or a version of her I know she can be when she is less stressed). I know 4 months without sex isn't that long, I've seen people posting going years without it. I'm trying to be patient and understanding and more helpful. The more I do though the more I am asked to do. I'm not perfect and mess some stuff up or forget stuff and she always uses it to confirm her feelings that I suck. Its hurting my confidence and affecting my performance at work. It's like I can do a million things right and the one mess up erases it all. She is hard on me and verbally so. I'm usually able to let it roll off my back, but I have Sicilian blood in me and when in the wrong mood I snap back sometimes making it even worse. 

She sometimes will come over and hug me, usually while I'm sleeping and plant a kiss on my head. Sometimes she kisses me hello and goodbye before work, sometimes she pulls away with a nasty look when I try to kiss her or hug her. That hurts. 

Strangely my wife would sometimes initiate sex with me in her sleep. When I was in bed with her and I'd be sleeping too it would sometimes turn to sex. She would remember that we had sex the next day but did not remember initiating it. Pretty recently I tried to wake her up (she fell asleep on the couch) to get her to bed and she started making out with me. I laughed it off woke her up more fully and put her in bed. If we're both sleeping that's one thing but I was awake and it would have been wrong, as nice as the kiss was, to try and get more out of it. It's almost as though there is a part of her deep inside that wants me and is trying to get out. I don't know it's confusing. 

I know the above is a lot. Any comments, advice or observations would be appreciated. I think just typing this all out was very therapeutic for me. 

Thanks All.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

SoccerDad15 said:


> I was devastated. She woke up in a panic and begged for the phone back and asked me to stop reading. So I did. I was hurt angry and demanded she stopped seeing the trainer. *She wouldn't. *


The bolded part is the issue. You don't command her respect, so you lose with this relationship. Also, red flags all over for an affair. All this comes down to respect. If you don't have it in a relationship, it's going to be a very long bumpy ride in which you will lose in the end.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

Thank you for your observation. I agree with you, it feels as though she does not respect me. I don't know what I can do to command it either. When I stand up for myself and push back it can get real ugly. 

Recently i had enough one night and told her that as much as I didn't want to break up the family we may need to divorce. We would need to sell the house in order to really separate. She kind of panicked when I really got down to the plan. She said I would pay alimony and she would keep the house. I laughed that off and said I did the research, even if she was awarded alimony *which she wouldn't because she earns more money than me, it would be a pittance and she still wouldn't be able to afford it. Not to mention how suing for alimony would effectively bankrupt us both. 

She started crying that she didn't want to break up the family and it was at this point she agreed to counseling again. Fast forward a few months she really hasn't made any effort, besides going to the meetings, to actually fixing the relationship.

Call me old fashioned, but I made vows and promises in front of our friends and family. I don't want to give up on her as I know without the stresses she is a good partner. We compliment each other and have achieved a lot together. She is a great mother, when she's not working. She is beautiful and intelligent and I love her. 

With all that being said I am terribly unhappy with the situation. I'm still a young guy at 36. I am in the best shape of my life and I have a lot to offer to somebody who is willing to accept my love. And my wife does seem willing to accept it, she just is not willing to reciprocate it at the moment. 

How do I command more respect? It's such a tightrope to walk. I need to be sensitive but strong, confident yet modest. I need to command respect without being a jerk or seeming possessive. It's a really hard game to win. Sometimes I want to throw in my chips, heal and start new. 

Then I think of my 3 year old and that he won't even remember having his family in tact if I left. Or my 8 year old who may remember and long for the times mommy and daddy were together. It breaks my heart. I don't know which is worse. At the end of the day all I really need is some love and affection from my wife and for her to take some responsibility for what is not perfect in our lives. At the end of the day it's a good life. We have a beautiful house, healthy children, nice cars and good, well paying jobs. There is every reason to be happy.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She wants out of the marriage, and she seems not to have the keys for this, her prison knell.

She is likely suffering from deep-seated depression.

She may have cheated with others, maybe men, on those past and longer trips.

She has tasted what she feels is missing in her marriage.
She likes the taste of others flesh, but not enough to go fully on any cheating diet.

Likely, those whom she 'may' have {prior cheated with} did not meet her expectations.
But, neither do you.

She is biding her time and 'looking', actively or passively for a way out. 
She unfairly blames you for her mental/chemical imbalance.

She remains in limbo, her back remains arched severely, while trying to get under the limbo escape bar.

Her biggest problem is that she is not honest with you, or with herself.
Help is available to most who seek of it, and those who know its blue hue and that cheating's venal view.

She is riding you as one does an ass. You get her to her destination, though not in the style she desires.



The Typist I-


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

Well you did a good job at pointing out all of my worst fears. 

She did swear to me she hasn't cheated. I mean she would have to be an excellent liar and great at covering her tracks. Typically she doesn't lie to me as much as avoid questions. 

I wish she did cheat on me with another man sometimes and that I'd find out. It would be easy then for me to just leave her, I couldn't accept that. 

I just really don't think she did. She would facetime me from bed almost every night on her trips. Flying doesn't agree with her and she becomes ill, very sinusy and drippy. She was also on her time of the month for the longer trip. The others have been short, just a day or two. I've flat out asked her. Her response is that sex and men aren't a concern for her right now. She's not interested in love, or so it would seem. She seems to be only interested in work and the kids. Its all she really talks about or thinks about. I asked our therapist and she doesn't think she is cheating or has recently cheated either. 

I do agree that she has depression, or anxiety or something. There is mental illness that runs in her family.


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## father_of_2 (Oct 27, 2017)

Something my therapist said to me (or maybe it was someone here) - it's better to be *from* a broken home than to be *in* a broken home.

Your wife sounds like she's checked out. It's really similar to my own situation (minus the many instances of psychosis!).

At some point, like me, you need to think about yourself. Think about how this affects you and your sanity long term, and how it affects your children to be in a home where your wife disrespects you.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

One aspect I am noticing here:



SoccerDad15 said:


> Whatever it took to make her happy, or what I thought would make her happy I did.
> 
> ...
> We started seeing a therapist, though the therapist focused more on my wife and *didn't require me to go very often*. ...
> ...


*You are not having effective couple counseling. * Are these people trained specialist couple counselors? I am wondering if they are therapists who are more trained and experienced in working with one person at a time. That can often make things worse. 

Obviously there are many other points that could be commented on.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

She has been cheating the entire time you have been aware of contact. It never stopped.

Nothing (NOTHING!) will change until you accept this fact.

Otherwise, the foundation of the your plan will be built on sand.

Can you accept it? If not, there is very little that anyone here can say to you that will help your situation. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

Thank you for your insight father_of_2. We don't really get into too many bust ups in front of the kids, but I do think I am setting a bad example for my sons, as my dad did when dealing with my mom's alcoholism growing up. 

I do think that my wife suffers from something that has gone undiagnosed. Its hard to tell somebody you think they are crazy and need help. I'm hoping the current therapist we use uncovers something and refers her to a psychiatrist. 

I am on the brink though. I've told her twice now that we may need to just sell the house and divorce. She always has a way of delaying. We'll talk about it more after the kids birthday or after the holiday or after this crazy work week. She just keeps kicking the can down the block. Then in the interim things start to get better for a while, seems like we're making progress, then she'll start to grow dark again and regress. 

And when I think of our relationship as a whole of 14 years. We have had maybe 3 or 4 periods of a few months each when it has been real bad. So for the most part the relationship has been good. Maybe i need an epiphany or maybe she does. I'm not sure. I'm hoping for the best but am prepared for the worst. I know I'll land on my feet. I'm fairly certain I'd be able to find somebody new who respects me one day.

I'm not so sure about her though. She is beautiful and plenty of guys will want to have sex with her. But as far as a relationship is concerned, I'm not sure many will deal with her baggage and the fact that she has three children, long term. I know she is in for a lot of hurt if I leave. I love her I don't want her to be hurt. I don't want to subject my kids to a parade of men (maybe woman?). I made a promise, for better or for worse. I have a hard time breaking my promises.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

The two of you seem to be at a deadlock, since even though she is going to MC with you she is not making any effort.

It is interesting that she reaches out to you in her sleep. She knows it is you, and doesn't push you away. I am thinking there is an emotional or mental health component going on with her.

Is she an either/or kind of person? Is she not able to juggle/reconcile having a career and a family? She can only do one really well in her mind? Did she start feeling dissatisfied with you only when she started working outside the home?

While it sounds like she had an affair with her trainer, there are no clear red flags that she is having one now.

It just seems that her job has gone to her head and she doesn't know how to do high flying job and wife too, so she is choosing the job.

I think you sound like a very supportive husband. In your case, with your wife, too supportive. You need to let some things go to your wife. She is going to balk and scream, but you have to get yourself out of the position of being her "fixer" and slave. She doesn't appreciate, much less respect you because of all that you do. Like you said, you already do a lot, she wants more.

She does seem spoiled and entitled, and she wants to be the princess in your family like she was in hers. She is like the wicked princess, not the gracious one. Because of that, she needs to be demoted to servant, just like you are.

There is a saying here on TAM. You have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. If you are afraid of losing it, you will be too afraid to do anything that might make her angry enough to divorce you, OR CHANGE so she can keep you.

Hold On To Your Nuts (Non-negotionable Unalterable Terms) might be a good book for you to read. When you know what your NUTS are you won't argue about the silly things when she tries to.

If you figure out your NUTS and draw your boundary lines your relationship might change.

ETA: Another book you may consider is The Way of the Superior Man.

If you sure that are the best man you can be, should you decide she is not changing and your best option is to divorce her, you will not have doubts or guilt that you could have done more.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

@Laurentium - Yes both are very experienced and have many board certifications. The plan with the new therapist is to continue joint sessions after a few solo sessions. 
@farsidejunky - I'm not quite sure what you mean that she has been cheating the entire time that I have been aware of contact. The only instance of cheating I noticed was with that woman trainer. I caught onto that pretty fast, within days of the occurrence. We spend lots of time together. She doesn't exhibit many signs of cheating. Not on her phone texting a lot, not on social media. As I mentioned when she travels for work she's usually a mess and stays in regular contact. Part of me wants her to be cheating. It'd be easy. I've asked bluntly. When she asked me to move out I said tell me your cheating or have cheated and I'll be gone. She didn't/wouldn't. I mean if that's what she really wants and all she has to do is admit to an affair, why wouldn't she?


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## Manny1400 (Dec 10, 2019)

This is the reality for a lot of guys in 21st century US --they find themselves in these marriages.

You did NOTHING wrong: you took care of the kids, drove your wife around town, supported her in her job, gave her (some) affection, and never once abused her in any way. You held down a job and tried to provide for your family, and none of that was enough.

And you know what? Even if you guys were worth 4 million, it still wouldn't be "enough", because she has this hot trainer giving her attention at the gym, a career that is more important than her kids (like is she even putting in any effort as a mother?), etc. She gives you the bogus line about not being "in love" with you, as if you are some 16 year-old kid that is going to fall for that?

In regards to her and the kids, you did nothing wrong, BUT in regards to yourself, you did several things wrong

1. You let your wife embarrass and cuckold you in front of the community. You never should have "supported" her in regards to this at all. If I went out and banged some girl who then made a stink on social media or made allegations against me, my wife would be out the door. You have to ask yourself why you allowed this?

2. You let your wife take control of the relationship, and you didn't assert authority--you became her maid and roommate. I see so many guys do this, and it always leads to disaster. If a woman does not respect you, she will disrespect you.

Quite honestly, you need to fix yourself and move on. Lose the weight, get into shape, improve your career and salary if needed, get some new clothes, and contact a divorce attorney. I would typically advise people with kids to try and work things out, but I see no future here at all. You are married to Miss Wrong.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

SoccerDad15 said:


> .
> 
> How do I command more respect? It's such a tightrope to walk. I need to be sensitive but strong, confident yet modest. I need to command respect without being a jerk or seeming possessive. It's a really hard game to win. Sometimes I want to throw in my chips, heal and start new.
> 
> .


You really want the answer? DIVORCE HER! 

Why don't you know Cheaters lie the best, and are able to convince the weak minded, "my spouse would never do that!" Your not the first to claim this and mostly all are wrong. Especially just as your wife informed you. The famous ILYBNILWY.... speech.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Then I can't help you.

Pick your analogy...the rabbit hole...the onion...the iceberg...it doesn't matter which one...

This goes far deeper than you are willing to even explore, so I will repeat my initial assertion:

Until you can accept it, there is nothing anyone here can say to you that will help.

Acceptance, brother. 

Your wife is shady. 

She is a liar.

You only have a small modicum of the truth. 

No truth=no legitimate reconciliation.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

OP, you are wasting your time...call an attorney now.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The best way for your partner to deny cheating ....... is to ASK them if they are cheating. THEY WILL DENY !!!!! THEY ALL DENY !!!!!!!

Now that I have that out my system there really is only one important thing for you to know: She is finished with you ..... it's only a matter of time before she finds the correct exit.

Stop holding on to what does not exist. Buckle up ..... fairy tales and love poems are not in your future with her. Accept this now.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

A bit different point of view: You want to keep your marriage, but you want her to change. This is sad because you can't change her, you can only change yourself. You did well--lost weight, are a good stable provider, are a good father which your children need because she doesn't sound very loving or caring--to anyone but herself. She sounds as if she thinks she is entitled, and her rules change regularly.

Don't wish another infidelity on her and then you will leave. Instead consider making a decision on whether you want the rest of your life to be like this or not. IMO: you must insist on a relationship that inculcates what you expect--set boundaries. Either she will or she won't agree. Stop threatening divorce and then not really meaning it. Remember you won't make her change by doing this. 

For example try, "Wife, I refuse to live in a marriage without intimacy. I love you and want to improve our connection and relationship, but I must have ___, ___, and___. " 

Sounds to me like both would like out, but 'maybe not.' You wait on the other to make a decision. Thinking you are making a decision to let the marriage die if things do not change. Best Wishes!!


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

@Adelais - Thank you for your response. It gives me hope. 

@Subsequent posters - I am not disagreeing with you all. Part of me is not really ready to give up hope on my marriage, part of me knows I may have to move on sooner or later. I am in good shape, I dress well, have lots to offer. I make plenty of money, though my wife's spending is why we are in trouble. I'm relatively modest in my spending. 

I will throw in the towel eventually, but I need to make sure I exhaust every avenue first. I know once we are seperated she will start to resent me more and make my life difficult in other ways. If we can get back to where we were last year, before she took this job and sustain that for a few years until the kids are a bit older... I don't know..


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

@SoccerDad15 I added another book to my post that might help you be the best man you can be, whether you stay with her or eventually decide to end the marriage.

These books are not to imply that you are not already being a great husband. They are to brush up some rough spots, and/or to reassure yourself that you are doing the best YOU can personally do. If she doesn't start doing her best, at least your own conscience is clear.

I'm really wondering if she is not emotionally equipped to have a high powered job and be an amazing wife and mother at the same time. This is not uncommon in men and in women. Their job demands so much that they neglect their family responsibilities. Their family won't fire them for not performing at their best, but their job will. Their family relationships suffer as a result.

Also, why do you need a nanny if you are doing all the work with your children? Your wife sounds like she has given up most of her familial responsibilities for her job. In that case, she should pay your spousal support, since money seems to be more important to her than spending time with and doing all the hard work it takes to have a family.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@SoccerDad15, 

I have been married 3 times. In my first marriage, my exH cheated on me--I found out--and I was a mess. We divorced, but I learned, picked myself up, and moved on. In my second marriage, we were middle-aged, had kids/step-kids, there were issues, and I was the one who cheated online. But again, I learned, I admitted I was wrong and took personal responsibility, and we reconciled and were lovingly married for 10 more years before he died. I'm currently married to Beloved Hubby 

The reason I share all this is because I've been on both sides of the infidelity coin: betrayed and disloyal. And as I was reading your posts, I saw MANY red flags that indicate an unfaithful mindset. Now...it is within the realm of conceivability that a penis has not yet penetrated her vagina, but her MIND and her thoughts are very clearly not thinking in faithful patterns. I recognize the way she's thinking! If I were to take an educated guess, I would say there is someone at work who has caught her eye...someone she has at least a crush on and is flirting with, if not at most has feelings for and WANTS to be free to be with him. Also, it is conceivable it's another female at work, so let's just call this the Other Person...okay? There is some Other Person who has caught her eye, who has thrown her some compliments, who flirts with her and makes her feel all tingly, and who she has considered the idea (maybe acted on it...maybe not) of kissing and sleeping with them. 

She probably thinks that adultery is wrong. Most people do. Some part of her knows she is playing with fire here, and in order to justify unfaithful thoughts and actions, she makes it so that YOU are the bad guy. You don't do enough. You have this and that fault. You don't make her happy. You haven't made her happy in a long time. She doesn't love you like a wife should. In fact, she may not have ever loved you. See how that sounds familiar AND how that progressed from one to the other? That's how a cheater thinks. 

And nope, if you ask a cheater to their face, "Are you cheating on me?" they are not going to tell the truth AND you can't tell by "looking her in the eye" even if she's a bad liar. Know why? Because she is justifying it to herself. She is taking a thousand teeny, tiny steps across the line until suddenly she's a mile across the line. They haven't "touched" yet so it's not cheating. They have touched but it wasn't a kiss yet, so it's not cheating. They kissed, but she pulled away, so it's not cheating. They kissed but it wasn't french kising with passion, so it's not cheating. They kissed with passion, but no genitals were touched, so it's not cheating. Genitals were touched, but it was through clothing, so it's not cheating. ETC. You get the point. So yeah--she can look you right in the eye and not blink and say "...it's not cheating" because she is justifying AND because you are the bad guy. She's not cheating if she doesn't love you like a wife should. She's not cheating if you two aren't in the same bedroom. She's not cheating if she isn't "in love" with you. She's not cheating if you two are in an in-house separation. She's not cheating if you don't make her happy. She's not cheating if she hasn't been happy in the marriage in a long time. She's not cheating if you don't keep the house clean and you have issues. She's not cheating if you are controlling and want to tell her who she can be friends with and who she can't! She's not cheating if YOU are abusive! 

Ah...there it is. The magic word that makes the ultimate justification. Abuse. 

And if she's done with you, why not just say "I'm kind of done here, honey" and divorce? I'll tell you why! Because YOU actually do meet some of her needs. You provide a home and pay some bills, you provide some disposable cash, you provide free cleaning services, and you provide free child care. If SHE had to take care of her own housing and bills, use only her money, clean and care for the maintenance of her own home, and take care of her kids on her own...why she'd have no time or means to fool around with the Other Person! So she doesn't want to lose you...she wants to keep you as long as she can so she can continue the fun fantasy of star-crossed lovers who overcame every obstacle to be together as soulmates (with Other Person). If she loses you, real life will insert itself into her fantasy and that's not nearly as fun or pretty. Nope, this way she is free.

Finally, in order to command her respect here is what I recommend (and note to self: my 2nd husband did this to me when he discovered I was cheating): 
1) Find the name of the Other Person and some form of contact information. My 2nd hubby found the OM's name and email, and Hubby sent him a letter that said, "She is MY wife and if you think for one second that I am just going to hand over my wife without a fight, you've got another thing coming! She is married, she is mine, and you are not wanted in our marriage. Cease and desist all contact right now." [Now I will say that I didn't know he was sending this, and when my OM told me, he was upset and his voice was shaking, and he didn't want any part of "a fight" no matter what that meant (legal, fist fight, whatever).]

2) Pack your wife's clothes into a couple big luggages, put them in the trunk, ask her to take a drive with you and go to the train station or bus station in your town, set her luggage on the curb and say something like: "Okay I know about the Other Person. I've written to them and told them you're married and that I would fight for our marriage. And I've told them to end all contact right now. Now it's up to you. I promised to forsake all others in front of our friends and family and I heard that same promise from you, and I expect you to uphold that promise. So right here, right now, you are completely free to decide if you are going to get on the bus/train and go be with Other Person or if you are going to end all contact and come back home with me. I WILL NOT SHARE. If you choose to go, I will miss you but I will move on and you will never, ever be able to come back. If you choose to come home, you will never, ever have direct or indirect contact with Other Person--not through mail, email, phone call, social media, meeting...nothing. It's up to you--100% to me or go."
[Now, she will likely try to stall, or try to guilt you with "I can't believe you're being so controlling" or "I can't choose between you or OP let me have some time"... but consider this. She made a promise (same as you) to love and honor YOU and forsake all others...so either she's going to choose to honor that right now, or she actually already HAS CHOSEN and just doesn't want to admit it. Either way, you are not controlling her or anything else she blameshifts onto you, because it is UP TO HER to make the decision and then live with the full natural results of the choice she made. This sitting on the fence stuff is mostly so she doesn't have to experience consequences!]

So there's my thoughts, @SoccerDad15. I am truly sorry you are here, but this is 100% where you are. Please act on what you know is true even though every fiber of your being doesn't want it to be true.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

SoccerDad15 said:


> [MENTION=97306]
> 
> I will throw in the towel eventually, but I need to make sure I exhaust every avenue first. I know once we are seperated she will start to resent me more and make my life difficult in other ways. If we can get back to where we were last year, before she took this job and sustain that for a few years until the kids are a bit older... I don't know..


I don't believe the job is the issue, like if she quits the job, everything goes back ''as it once was.'' As it once was, wasn't good, actually...and the job seemed to serve as a catalyst to revealing that. I admire that you want to stick things out, but stay true to yourself in the process. I'd hate to see you become a shell of a man, living with a wife who doesn't love you, just to keep it together for the kids and optics.

Offering some prayers your way, hope things get better, however that may play out in your life.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

SoccerDad15 said:


> Thank you for your observation. I agree with you, it feels as though she does not respect me. I don't know what I can do to command it either. When I stand up for myself and push back it can get real ugly.
> 
> Recently i had enough one night and told her that as much as I didn't want to break up the family we may need to divorce. We would need to sell the house in order to really separate. She kind of panicked when I really got down to the plan. She said I would pay alimony and she would keep the house. I laughed that off and said I did the research, even if she was awarded alimony *which she wouldn't because she earns more money than me, it would be a pittance and she still wouldn't be able to afford it. Not to mention how suing for alimony would effectively bankrupt us both.
> 
> ...



Marriage is definitely not easy, if it were, then we would have a lot less divorce. I am going through the same crap with my wife right now (she's your age) and haven't spoken to her in 5 days. My go to method is to analyze the situation and If i'm 100% certain I didn't do anything wrong, I will not break down and apologize or even approach her. Further, if and when she wants to talk, she will do so in a kind voice and even temperament. I don't care how ugly it gets because my conscience is clear and that's what I hold onto. I can always find another partner, but I can't always get my dignity back. You have to think of it like that or they'll run all over you and start disrespecting you; it will become an everyday thing. Always stand up for yourself IF your'e in the right, if not, be a man and apologize. I always give her the benefit of the doubt but sometimes she's just dead wrong and your wife was dead wrong if what you wrote was true. I have 3 kids as well but I know if I ever get divorced, I would still get to see them half the time so not to worried about that. 

Also, NEVER expect love and affection from anyone. Your wife doesn't owe you anything. The only person you need to love is yourself. If you can do that, everything else kind of falls in place.

Good luck out there.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Dont kid yourself, you can come up with every excuse in the book (and you have..) about how she isnt/couldnt be cheating, and you'd be wrong. We see it here constantly. Either way, your wife has decided that she is done with you. I am glad you didnt leave, but she should have been the one to leave your bedroom. She really should leave since she is the one who wants out.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Can anyone link to the the investigative thread?

You need to put a VAR in her car. Pretty much every thread that starts like this turns to end up with cheating. 

Google signs of cheating. Check her underwear drawer for fancy things she doesn’t wear around you. Look for a burner phone. Check every corner of your house, shoes, pockets, boxes etc. 

However, if it’s a workplace affair that is a difficult affair to catch because they can restrict communication to the workplace. 
Another must is to GPS her vehicle. 

Withholding sex BTW is a huge red flag. 

Get the MMSLP book linked to below immediately. Pulling to much of the load has negative results.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

SoccerDad15 said:


> Thank you for your observation. I agree with you, it feels as though she does not respect me. I don't know what I can do to command it either. When I stand up for myself and push back it can get real ugly.
> 
> Recently i had enough one night and told her that as much as I didn't want to break up the family we may need to divorce. We would need to sell the house in order to really separate. She kind of panicked when I really got down to the plan. She said I would pay alimony and she would keep the house. I laughed that off and said I did the research, even if she was awarded alimony *which she wouldn't because she earns more money than me, it would be a pittance and she still wouldn't be able to afford it. Not to mention how suing for alimony would effectively bankrupt us both.
> 
> ...


You may just have to ask her to leave. It sounds like she's checked out, waffles only when she may have a little anxiety, but has long since moved passed that.

With compassion here - it does sound like she doesn't respect you anymore, her mistake, but perhaps a fact nonetheless. 

So let her own her position fully. Put it on her, start watching out for your own future, likely not with her.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

SoccerDad15 said:


> Well you did a good job at pointing out all of my worst fears.
> 
> She did swear to me she hasn't cheated. I mean she would have to be an excellent liar and great at covering her tracks. Typically she doesn't lie to me as much as avoid questions.
> 
> ...


OK, all that may be true.

During this trip, did she tell you she was on her period or is this something you know for a fact.
If you asked her if she cheated and she said, "No, I didn't and I was on my cycle".

That answer is a weak feint. Meaning, if I was not on my period I could/might have.

Her saying she has no interest in sex, or cheating {at this time in her life}, is patently false. 
She just cheated with her trainer. 

Sex with someone other than your spouse is cheating. 

Eh?

She might be saying this to you, to justify her lack of intimacy, of late. 

Is this Gaslighting? 

I don't know, at this point. 

It very well could be.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

She's playing games with you, because it works. The sex and the changing and the showers is about power and ego trips, which coincidentally are what affairs are about, too. She's on an ego trip and loves to torment you. And it works! The only threat she really has is her financial comfort: you're her ATM and retirement plan. You're a financial vehicle for her to use.

So she gets everything she wants, you get nothing you want, and you're afraid to do anything. So why should she change?

"Wife, this marriage is no longer working for me, and it's clearly no longer working for you because you're cheating on me and telling me you want a divorce. So here's the deal: there's the door, here's my lawyer's number, now GTFO of at least our bedroom, preferably the house, ideally my whole life."

First she'll be indignant, then she'll try to bargain, then she'll rage and make you the bad guy. So what? Or she'll just be relieved. Again, so what?

When she swears she's not cheating, then just respond with "well, you're doing a great job of making it look like you are."

There's a very small chance... maybe 1% or something, that this will shock her back into reality, and she'll work on the marriage. I'd probably still be out, but maybe then it could work. Being the carpet she walks on isn't going to work.

The end.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Chaparral said:


> Can anyone link to the the investigative thread?
> 
> You need to put a VAR in her car. Pretty much every thread that starts like this turns to end up with cheating.
> 
> ...


Yes, get back to basics. Check her communications and follow the advice above.

She lost her job, due to the RO being served on her at work. Or, so she said. She may have already been on probation for 'other' reasons.
So, any co-worker involvement becomes a continued activity with a {former co-worker}. 
So, any ongoing chicanery will now become easier to discover.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Does she do anything for you? Back rubs, make you soup when your sick? Etc.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> OK, all that may be true.
> 
> During this trip, did she tell you she was on her period or is this something you know for a fact.
> If you asked her if she cheated and she said, "No, I didn't and I was on my cycle".
> ...


She mentioned off hand that she had mentioned off hand prior to leaving she was getting her period. She was also a bit sick with a cold and complaining how bad her skin looked and unattractive she felt. That's a reason I do believe that no cheating occured. 

I don't doubt on the other hand that maybe somebody caught her eye or she found somebody who was more successful than me who she wishes she could pursue. I've gone through her phone a few time, her work phone too. I want to know if she's cheating on me. All thes eposts have me super paranoid now that she is some sort of spy mastermind who can cover up the affair.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

SoccerDad15 said:


> @Laurentium - Yes both are very experienced and have many board certifications. The plan with the new therapist is to continue joint sessions after a few solo sessions.
> 
> @farsidejunky - I'm not quite sure what you mean that she has been cheating the entire time that I have been aware of contact. The only instance of cheating I noticed was with that woman trainer. I caught onto that pretty fast, within days of the occurrence. We spend lots of time together. She doesn't exhibit many signs of cheating. Not on her phone texting a lot, not on social media. As I mentioned when she travels for work she's usually a mess and stays in regular contact. Part of me wants her to be cheating. It'd be easy. I've asked bluntly. When she asked me to move out I said tell me your cheating or have cheated and I'll be gone. She didn't/wouldn't. I mean if that's what she really wants and all she has to do is admit to an affair, why wouldn't she?


Cheaters lie, the end.

You are doing everything you can to look the other way.

Type all of the excuses you want, it is what they do.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> Does she do anything for you? Back rubs, make you soup when your sick? Etc.


She'll buy me stuff sometimes fi I mention offhand something broke or is falling apart. 

Other than that no. I work out 6 days a week and at 36 it takes its toll. I complain of pain sometimes but don't get offers of back rubs. I mean I don't flat out ask for them like she does though.

She isn't very thoughtful towards me though. For our 10 year wedding anniversary this past summer, she ran out and bought a card that morning, but didn't fill it out. It sat on her nightstand for several weeks until we had an argument and I brought up that she couldn't even bother to fill out a card for our 10 year wedding anniversary. 

I really do think there is a mental health issue, which is why I haven't threw in the towel yet. But the more I think about it the more I think I may have to. I feel so bad for my little babies. The thought of not seeing them everyday kills me. I'm their dad. I need to be there to protect them. Every day and Every night. If they wake up scared they look toward me. My oldest thinks I'm a superhero. I sacrifice my happiness for them. I know I shouldn't but they're so young.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

There ISNT a mental health issue! Infidelity and selfishness are character issues, not a mental health problem. Stop trying to make excuses for her being a crappy-ass person.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Whatever it is she's been suffering from will "clear up" the minute she's served. Guaranteed!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

SoccerDad15 said:


> She mentioned off hand that she had mentioned off hand prior to leaving she was getting her period. She was also a bit sick with a cold and complaining how bad her skin looked and unattractive she felt. That's a reason I do believe that no cheating occured.
> 
> I don't doubt on the other hand that maybe somebody caught her eye or she found somebody who was more successful than me who she wishes she could pursue. I've gone through her phone a few time, her work phone too. I want to know if she's cheating on me. All thes eposts have me super paranoid now that she is some sort of spy mastermind who can cover up the affair.


I agree, it could be true.

Unless there is blood seen in the shower water, the fact remains in doubt, as in no blood evidence seen to back up her words.

Her guilt could have inspired her farewell crimsom story.

She steered your mind from following this/that possible trail.

"Have no worries, I couldn't have sex with a man because I am on my period".
"And I am feeling sick".

To be honest, I hope I am wrong. 
Yes, I have been wrong more than once, though, not too often.


TT I-


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

[small threadjack]

Easy there, @SunCMars...

You very nearly admitted out loud in front of all of TAM that you were (once, in a galaxy far, far way) WR...
WRO....
WRON...

Well... you know ... "not right"  

[/small threadjack]


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SoccerDad15 said:


> She'll buy me stuff sometimes fi I mention offhand something broke or is falling apart.
> 
> Other than that no. I work out 6 days a week and at 36 it takes its toll. I complain of pain sometimes but don't get offers of back rubs. I mean I don't flat out ask for them like she does though.
> 
> ...


Go for full custody or primary. 

Document what you do every day for them. 

Show the court that you are the one doing everything.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

SoccerDad15 said:


> She mentioned off hand that she had mentioned off hand prior to leaving she was getting her period. She was also a bit sick with a cold and complaining how bad her skin looked and unattractive she felt. That's a reason I do believe that no cheating occured.
> 
> I don't doubt on the other hand that maybe somebody caught her eye or she found somebody who was more successful than me who she wishes she could pursue. I've gone through her phone a few time, her work phone too. I want to know if she's cheating on me. All thes eposts have me super paranoid now that she is some sort of spy mastermind who can cover up the affair.


You don't need to be a spy mastermind to cheat, just a wilingness to lie. She blamed her period for her actions? lol

I think that at the very least, perhaps separating would be a good idea, if you're not ready to divorce. I think it might give you some mental clarity of your own, it seems you are codependent in a way, reading through your posts. It's scary of course, but in the end, it might be scarier to live with someone who's cake eating. 

You seem like a caring guy, I'm sorry you're broken up over this, and have to expose your kids to all the drama too. 

And, look up narcissistic personality disorder...and having a relationship with a narcissist. It might really open your eyes to who and what you're dealing with, for she sounds like she could be a narcissist. There usually is no ''cure,'' they just keep taking, and eventually she will be this way towards her own kids. Narcissists are all about them, and they usually attract empaths, which you seem like an empath. (which is a good thing, unless you marry a narcissist lol)

I hope things get better!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

SoccerDad15 said:


> She'll buy me stuff sometimes fi I mention offhand something broke or is falling apart.
> 
> Other than that no. I work out 6 days a week and at 36 it takes its toll. I complain of pain sometimes but don't get offers of back rubs. I mean I don't flat out ask for them like she does though.
> 
> ...


She doesn’t love you.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

She wants all the good that comes from being your wife with none of the sacrifices. You need to start pulling back. She can’t have the good without the bad. Stop doing all these great things for her. Show her how hard her life will be if she wants to be single, but make sure she knows what your doing. It takes two to make a marriage work and tell her once she starts putting in effort then you will too.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

It shouldn't be this hard. You can do better. And in the end you will with someone, your wife will end up with worse.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

3xnocharm said it before I could. Your wife is a the very least selfish. A stereotypical only child. And you would be a middle child if I had to guess. People pleaser. Always trying to smooth the waters. Make everyone happy.

As Marduk said, she doesnt love you. Probably the scariest thing many can hear on this site. But Im sure deep down you already knew that.

Sounds like the kids are closer to you. Sounds like you make enough to be comfortable. Maybe you'll be lucky and she'll continue to be her selfish self and you'll get the kids uncontested. 

Either way you probably need to have the tough conversation with her. Not are you cheating on me. Ask her to be honest. Does she love you. Does she want her own life to chase all she thinks she wants.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

From what I have read about your wife and my experience with mental issues, your wife may very well be bipolar. 

This is very hard to diagnose because No One likes these type of labels. Her behavior is classic. Her emotional instability towards her loved ones is classic too. She takes and takes and takes. She can't give because it causes inner stress in her (classic bipolar syptoms).

You keep giving because if you don't, she falls apart, your whole family falls apart ( in your case your three kids). Welcome to living with a spouse who has emotional issues! It is hard. You end up picking up their emotional slack because that is what they are deficient in: they are emotionally challenged. She needs help. The professional kind or she will destroy her relationships. She will destroy her marriage. She will destroy her relationship with her children as well if she continues untreated.

Look up these illnesses. Your wife will be a poster child to one of these disorders. Some posters have stated narcissistic tendencies, but in my experience, I honestly see bipolar disorder. 

Please readup and get informed. This is probably the only thing you can do for her. She may not believe you. Most people with mental/emotional disorders don't accept that there is anything wrong with them. Yet you are devastated pretzeling yourself to accommodate her lack of putting in her fair share in her relationships.

Don't fool yourself. She is not a good mom. She is not a good wife either. You have taken almost everything regarding home and family because she can't!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Mental illness is all about emotions or lack of them. Your wife functions really well at work, but she is emotionally lacking a lot in you and your children's lives. Educate yourself and be there for your children. 

People with mental/emotional illness wreak havoc on their loved ones. 

She has been honest with you. Believe her from the first time she told you she didn't love you. This has not changed. That is why you take a beating emotionally every time for a long time now. This comes off as desrespect because it is.

If she is not able to emotionally attach to you, she will seek that attachment in others. It is just a matter of time before that emotional affair shows up in your lives again. Without professional help this will happen again and again. It will escalate to physical affairs. It is where most end up and when the breaking up of the family unit inevitably happens.

My X did it. My daughter did it. My marriage didn't survive it. My daughter's is still a rough work in progress.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

We can cut cancer out of people, we cannot cut out an erratic and cold heart.

The hardest disease to cure are those caused by those lost and run amok, neurons.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

Thank you all for the great advice. 

I have looked in to narcissistic personalities and bi-polar disorders. She does exhibit signs of both. 

Her uncle is a diagnosed schizophrenic. Her mother is definitely something too and verbally abuses her husband often. I've had to ask her to refrain from doing so in front of my children. Her mom definitely screwed her up. She was basically raised by her grandparents and bounced around as a child. She doesn't know her biological father. There are also some hormonal issues. I do believe she isn't mentally well. Maybe one of the above, maybe just large amounts of stress and anxiety. I wouldn't leave her if she had cancer, so I'm not going to give up on her for this reason, yet. 

I do believe that she hasn't recently physically cheated on me. There are no signs of emotional cheating, yet. I do agree if I don't turn things around soon it will likely happen. I'm trying to get her help. I'm hoping our therapist will find something and refer her. The period story is true. We share a bathroom, and until that trip we were being intimate fairly regularly and I kept track of her cycles so I had a sense of when I'd get some action. (I am a dude afterall). 

She does love the kids and plans lots of fun stuff for them. She coordinates tutors and birthday parties. It's her way of contributing right now. There were times when I was working full time and finishing up a Masters degree where she had to take on a bit more, so I am ok with taking it on now. It's only fair. (She gave me more grief then I give her, but thats her personality).

She gave birth to my three children, 3 c-sections. I was there for every minute of it and saw what she went through. It's easy to recommend leaving somebody. But when you love that person and you've been through so much and share so much together it's not easy to decide to do so. 

I'm not worried about being alone. I get plenty of attention from woman since I've gotten in shape. I of course always stammer something about my wife and kids when I feel like I'm being hit on or flirted with, but I know I can meet new woman if I wanted to. I'm not concerned about being alone. 

I really want to try and keep out lives in tact. That's why I put up with it. Over a 14 year period there has been more good than bad, at least that's how I choose to remember it. I like my house. I don't want my kids to have to move into smaller apartments. We worked so hard to achieve what we have and I don't want to throw it away yet. I don't want to bleed my life's work to divorce lawyers and rent. 

I do love my wife. We haven't been intimate but we still spend time alone together on the weekends. Maybe it's just food shopping while my inlaws have the kids and we work out together usually on Saturday mornings. But we do enjoy each others company still. She does tell me she loves me sometimes. True or not I don't know. Once during a heated discussion she said she did love me. My response was, well yea, I love my sister too, but that's not the kind of love I'm looking for. She's just to stressed right now to be able to feel that kind of love. As much as she contributes financially, I wish she would quit or lose the job and go back to her old place where she was a big fish and seemingly more happy and comfortable. 

Lets see how our road trip goes tomorrow and the holidays at my parents in NY in 2 weeks. I'm curious to see how the 14th anniversary of the day we met goes on NYE. After the new year I'll reassess. If I'm still in the same situation, I'll likely go to a lawyer and start the paperwork to see if that spurs her into getting help. If it doesn't than at least I can look my kids in the eye one day and tell them I did everything I could.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

SoccerDad15 said:


> I do love my wife.


That is your problem right there. You are lying to yourself. 

You don't love yourself enough to love anyone else. If you loved yourself, you would have long since stopped loving her.

Get yourself individual counselling. Find out why you are willing to accept such abusive behavior. Find out why you love someone who is peeing on your face. Find out why you are opening your mouth to let more pee in. Until you learn to close your mouth and move your head out from being underneath her when she squats, there is no hope of improvement for you.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

So she had an emotional affair, if not physical, with her female trainer? Is it possible this affair has awakened her desires and she is now realizing she is gay? Perhaps she doesn't want to break up the family and does enjoy having you as a husband but doesn't want the sexual part of that relationship? 

I've lived it...my STBXH swore up and down he wasn't gay but couldn't bring himself to have sex with me. But he also didn't want to give up our family. But, in an attempt to keep me at bay sexually, he also kept me at bay emotionally. If I ever mentioned divorce he freaked out saying that was not something he wanted and would never happen. This sounds a lot like what your wife is doing. Can't even give you a card for your anniversary? Sounds very familiar to me. Even now, a year after I've left him he is still pining away for our family. I am seeing someone new and he is jealous...the gay ex husband is jealous. It's a mind **** for sure. 

And your story sounds like a mind **** as well. She may be hetero-romantic but homosexual which means she wants a husband, family, 2 car garage, white picket fence, etc. but she also only desires women sexually. Have you ever asked her about it? I f not, ask her if her little "infatuation" with the trainer opened up any new desires?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

SoccerDad15 said:


> Thank you all for the great advice.
> 
> I have looked in to narcissistic personalities and bi-polar disorders. She does exhibit signs of both.
> 
> ...


I think you'll find when you remove your wife from the pedestal you have placed her on, your life will start to improve. Your marriage might even improve. But, I've read stories that sound exactly like yours on here, and all have this same theme - husbands placing their wives on pedestals. Hormones, genetics, stress, anxiety, etc all become excuses because they just can't see this person they idolize, as an abuser. 

That would mean you'd have to admit you're in love with an abuser, which is hard to do. I've dated abusers, I see the same patterns with your wife...and your wife is learning that you will tolerate abuse. That is all that she is ''learning.'' She throws you crumbs of ''I love you,'' because she sees that it works. You continue to keep her on the pedestal, and she likes being there. She doesn't want to be your equal, she wants to be above you...controlling you and the relationship and you allow it.

You could live together for 50 years with this dynamic, if this is what you want, but you sound like you want something different. Your wife may be going through a myriad of things, but that doesn't give her the right to emotionally abuse you.

NYE and the holidays in general, will create a temporary utopia, as you get ready to see relatives, and get lost in good food, and spiked egg nog. Maybe she'll even have sex with you if she's had a few too many drinks. And you'll think there's hope, but once Jan 2nd comes, it'll be back to her on the pedestal, and you bowing down to her.

At the end of the day, this is your decision, and if you're not ready to divorce, then don't. But, I highly recommend that you take your wife down off the pedestal, because then you can see her for who she is, and how she is actually treating you.

And ask yourself, if you're in love with the idea of being in love. I don't think your wife loves you, not because you're not worthy of her love, but she doesn't sound capable of true love, in the purest sense of the word.

I offer this advice in hope that you start taking care of yourself, too...because your wife will just keep taking from you, if you let her.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> So she had an emotional affair, if not physical, with her female trainer? Is it possible this affair has awakened her desires and she is now realizing she is gay? Perhaps she doesn't want to break up the family and does enjoy having you as a husband but doesn't want the sexual part of that relationship?
> 
> I've lived it...my STBXH swore up and down he wasn't gay but couldn't bring himself to have sex with me. But he also didn't want to give up our family. But, in an attempt to keep me at bay sexually, he also kept me at bay emotionally. If I ever mentioned divorce he freaked out saying that was not something he wanted and would never happen. This sounds a lot like what your wife is doing. Can't even give you a card for your anniversary? Sounds very familiar to me. Even now, a year after I've left him he is still pining away for our family. I am seeing someone new and he is jealous...the gay ex husband is jealous. It's a mind **** for sure.
> 
> And your story sounds like a mind **** as well. She may be hetero-romantic but homosexual which means she wants a husband, family, 2 car garage, white picket fence, etc. but she also only desires women sexually. Have you ever asked her about it? I f not, ask her if her little "infatuation" with the trainer opened up any new desires?


I have asked her. She said that her fling, attraction, whatever it was had nothing to do sexually. I do know she "experimented" with woman before we met. Perhaps she's bi-sexual. I've told her several times, if she tells me she is in love with someone else, or wants to date other people, or wants to date woman that I would throw the towel in. Until she stops wearing her wedding ring and or tells me she desires someone else, I still have something to fight for.

She usually climaxed when we were being intimate. She always seemed to enjoy herself. If she didn't (nobody bats 1000) she certainly let me know. She is not the type to fake it to make me feel better as you can see from my previous posts. She even initiated once and a while or gave me strong signals that she wanted me to. So I know she enjoyed sex with me until fairly recently (4 months 4 days but who's counting). 

Thank you all for the words of confidence. I'll continuing to go to therapy. I've read a ton of books and will read those recommended to me by responders. 

I am usually a happy go lucky guy. I'm very competitive and usually pretty confident. In fact when we first started dating she chased me harder than I had chased her. I was dating two other woman when we met and I didn't instantly drop them. It's hard to stay confident though when your own wife won't sleep with you and give affection. She's like my kryptonite. Her along with thinking about potentially hurting my kids. 

I don't always put her on the pedestal. We've had some fights and I've said some not so nice stuff and have told her how I feel. It usually makes things worse, but everyone has their limits.I do continue to do nice things for her. But I don't do them out of expectation of anything or because she'll get mad if I don't. I do them because I want to. 

I'm an Italian American raised in Brooklyn. I grew up scrapping. It's not like I'm some soft dude. I just have a soft spot for her and my kids. Honestly a lot of its for my kids. Maybe it's an Italian thing. Maybe I watched my stubborn Italian father deal with an abusive alcoholic wife (my mom) all my life. They are still together.

One thing that does get to my wife, when she says something mean to me or treats me unkind, I ask her how she would like it if one of our son's wives treats him like this one day. She doesn't like that one.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

SoccerDad15 said:


> I have asked her. She said that her fling, attraction, whatever it was had nothing to do sexually. I do know she "experimented" with woman before we met. Perhaps she's bi-sexual. I've told her several times, if she tells me she is in love with someone else, or wants to date other people, or wants to date woman that I would throw the towel in. Until she stops wearing her wedding ring and or tells me she desires someone else, I still have something to fight for.
> 
> She usually climaxed when we were being intimate. She always seemed to enjoy herself. If she didn't (nobody bats 1000) she certainly let me know. She is not the type to fake it to make me feel better as you can see from my previous posts. She even initiated once and a while or gave me strong signals that she wanted me to. So I know she enjoyed sex with me until fairly recently (4 months 4 days but who's counting).


Well, I won't belabor the point except to say that my STBXH initiated 2-3x a week for the first 14 years of our marriage. I could get him ready from across the room. He always had an orgasm and by all accounts seemed to enjoy our sex life. So much so that I was SHOCKED when I found evidence of his homosexuality. He then admitted to "experimenting" prior to our marriage. After a certain number of years I think he had an experience that caused him to start craving men more and more until he couldn't have sex with me anymore. After 6 years of a sexless marriage he still was devastated when I told him I was leaving him. He would have continued on with our farce of a marriage until we died if I hadn't finally put a stop to it. 

If your wife isn't ready to admit she is gay then she will never tell you she wants to leave you but she also won't want to have sex with you. 

I could be way off base but your post just sounded so familiar to my own situation. Just something for you to keep an eye out for I guess. I wish you well and I hope you don't spend years trying to get her attention back on you...it's soul crushing when the person who is supposed to want you and love you just doesn't. I don't even know you and I wouldn't wish that on you.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Brother, your posts show the you are not stupid. 

However, you long drawn out post also show the you are bending yourself into a pretzel to make excuses for your cheating wife. 

Yeah, I said cheating. I will eat my hat if 1) she is not cheating with someone currently, 2) the relationship with your woman was sexual, and 3) this is neither the first, second or 3rd time she has cheated. 

I am betting, based on YOUR posts, that she has been cheating off and on your entire marriage. 

The fact that you actually think she deserves ANY Privacy is completely laughable. 

It really is time to wake up, reattach your balls, put your big boy paints on, and move on with your life, and as far away from her as you possible can, except for the kids. 

Do you realize this yet or are you still smoking the hopium pipe?

Please don't waste your life and wake up...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

People stay married for lots of reasons besides love. You are obviously the only one who can decide whether or not to live with the situation you’re in.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

When she tells you she doesn't love you, watch her actions.

When her actions follow her words, believe her.

Her place in this right now appears purely logistical, whether it is because of an unbalance in her biological chemistry, and emotional narcissism, or a contribution or both, she cares less about the relationship than you and as such holds the power.

She makes the rules in your relationship, better toe the line or you get nothing back.

When you accept that in her mind you've become just an asset, your power for change will return.

When we treat people like things, things get abused... respect is thrown out.

Your truth is not what you want it to be, see it for what it is or choose to live a lie.

It happens, it's ok to recognize it... be hurt by it... understand it.

What is not ok is to keep accepting it.

When you show in words and actions this is not acceptable you will either get a violent storm of emotions because power is now in your favor or she will openly give up realizing you now have the strength she feared.

Both are really just that... fear.

Stop contributing to it, this is an unmindful investment.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

SoccerDad15 said:


> Maybe I watched my stubborn Italian father deal with an abusive alcoholic wife (my mom) all my life. They are still together


 So you think you are screwed up because of your dysfunctional childhood and your parents staying together when they shouldn't have. Because of that, you plan to stay in a dysfunctional marriage for your kids. Think about that a second and tell me what is wrong with that logic.




> She woke up in a panic and begged for the phone back and asked me to stop reading. *So I did*.


How does that even happen, especially with a self-proclaimed tough Italian NYer? Did you not want to know the truth? You may be a tough guy to everyone except your wife but you are showing great weakness to her and it will only exacerbate her loss of feelings for you.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

SoccerDad,

You fit the mold of so many other posters that come here.

Spouse cut off sex.
Signs of cheating.
Opportunity to cheat.
Pre-emptive excuses (she happens to mention she is starting her period as she leaves for a trip...You are kidding that you fell for this right...)
You have her on a pedestal in your mind.
You make more excuses for her behavior than she does.
For you, her being a cheater is not actually an option in your mind.
You talk about your vows as a reason she isn't cheating.

You need to wake up. She has been and likely is cheating on you. 

Here is an exercise for you.... put as much effort into convincing yourself that she is a cheater as you have convincing yourself she is not a cheater and then compare the two sides. You'll see what we are saying....


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

re16 said:


> SoccerDad,
> 
> You fit the mold of so many other posters that come here.
> 
> ...


I get it man. I am trying to find more signs and am trying to convince myself, to the point where I feel like I'm chasing shadows. 

The thing is, if she is cheating, she is really good at it. She is getting it done with not a lot of time. She isn't like dressing up or wearing lots of makeup. If i could catch her cheating I think I'd have an easier time letting go. 

She has put on some weight lately, and is constantly complaining about her skin and how ugly she feels. 

So I really don't think she is sleeping with somebody else. 

There is a better chance it is emotional cheating. She certainly isn't holding up to her end of the bargain of our vows. She has broke them and I won't be surprised if she continues to break them. I mean she is neglecting her duties as a wife ( I don't mean sex). She is not holding up to the "thick and thin" portion of our vows. Maybe she is seeking other methods of coping. Maybe she has her eye on somebody and has some fantasy in her head. All of this I don't know. 

All of it is probably just as bad as sleeping with somebody else and is divorceable anyway. 

My point is, if she is cheating on me physically or not is irrelevant. She is being a ****ty wife either way and I probably should divorce her. 

The kids are the reason I'm willing to work with her and find the happiness we had together last year and for many of the years we were together. I may not be able to. If I do find out she is physically cheating on me, that would likely be the last straw to make me give up. I've tried to uncover it. I've had no luck so far. I will keep you all posted if I do. I'm not afraid of the truth. 

Honestly we had a very volatile weekend together on a short family trip. I looked very close for signs of her cheating. She is an emotional wreck right now and I think she wouldn't be able to handle an affair on top of everything else going on. 
She does need help though. I'm trying to help her. Even if I divorce her, she is still my children's mom, and I want to make sure she is mentally sound. 

I am not 100% sure of anything. I think there is a good chance she is cheating, or has cheated more than I know. But I also think there is an equal chance she is just really messed up in the head right now. 

At this point I am trying to get past next week with my mind in tact. I don't want my kids to associate the holidays with "when dad decided to throw in the towel on the family".

I've decided that after the holidays I am going to a lawyer for some advice and to understand my rights and approach her with a divorce plan. I still have the hope it will be an eye opener for her to get the help she needs so we can keep our family in tact. If not, then we go through with the plan and one day I can tell my kids honestly that I tried everything I could to keep it together. 

I find myself getting used to the idea of separation. I'm trying to visualize a new life, a new apartment, even a new girlfriend (eventually). My biggest weakness right now is my children. I am willing to sacrifice my happiness for theirs. Most parents are.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

OP, dude... she is cheating more than likely... 

Like you said, at least emotionally. Brother, you just have to wake up...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

SoccerDad15 said:


> I am not 100% sure of anything. I think there is a good chance she is cheating, or has cheated more than I know. But I also think there is an equal chance she is just really messed up in the head right now.
> 
> 
> I've decided that after the holidays I am going to a lawyer for some advice and to understand my rights and approach her with a divorce plan. I still have the hope it will be an eye opener for her to get the help she needs so we can keep our family in tact. If not, then we go through with the plan and one day I can tell my kids honestly that I tried everything I could to keep it together.
> ...


Hi, I'm one of the resident dirty, dirty, cheaters. I was a wayward wife with multiple AP's. I have also been cheated on. Both during my first marriage. Funny thing about being a cheater, especially if you're fairly open about it as I was, is that other cheaters come out the woodwork to talk to you. Relationships and human behavior fascinate me, so I was always willing to talk. I hope I learned some things and can be of some use.

Can I say I know she's cheated more than you know? No. I wasn't there. Can I say that everything you've related here says to me that she had an emotional and sexual relationship with her trainer? Yes. Classics signs are there including her trainer melting down when it ended. If you want my guess, the other marriages the trainer tried to ruin weren't her so much seeking to ruin marriages as her losing her damn mind every time one of her affair partners chose their spouse, which made her look crazy, which made it easier for the married couple to close ranks, pretend, and rugsweep like it's their job.

Her actions and her words match. Your wife, whatever her mental health status, does not love you. However, being married to you benefits her. You comfort her when she's upset, you are her fixer, you provide childcare, cleaning service, and you divorcing her would severely inconvenience her in addition to the fact she'd have to get herself sorted and function independently. If you present her with divorce papers or even just a plan, I can guarantee you she will beg and cry and do whatever necessary to prevent it. At least, for a while. Kinda half-assed, too, but you'll be so desperate you'll take it and make excuses for her. That seems to be the established pattern and she's counting on it continuing. In short, she doesn't want to remain married because you're her husband and she loves you. She wants to remain married because divorce would be scary and a huge bother.

She may have mental health issues or you may be reading into things because you want something to blame. It could be she's a hot mess because she wants out, but can't make herself leave. Either way, it doesn't excuse her behavior. Even if she is bi-polar or a narc she still knew right from wrong and chose wrong. She's still selfishly taking and taking from you without giving anything tangible back. In other words, she could be nutty as a fruitcake and it still wouldn't be to blame for her cheating or her selfishly using you. And, mentally healthy or not, she still doesn't love you.

This brings me to the children. Your wife parents marriage sounds like it was a poor example for her and she's perpetuated the cycle. You mention your parents marriage and mothers alcoholism and you perpetuated the bad marriage cycle. Children live what they learn. If you stay, you're saying to your kids that a dysfunctional marriage is normal and it will be familair to them, so guess what kind of marriage they will subconsciously seek out?

A few random thoughts.

Your wife doesn't have to be an evil mastermind to conceal an affair. It's fairly easy. Especially if she has an experienced cheater or just someone with common sense to show her how. Stupid easy if they plan and communicate verbally only. Ridiculously easy if it's a co-worker or someone she crosses paths with on business trips such as someone from a related industry, a supplier, etc. I've seen people use in game chats because they don't save conversations. I've seen people use code in emails to co-workers. I've seen people hide AP's under different names. I've seen same sex AP's disguised as friends. Secret emails and social media accounts are common, too. People, when motivated, can be clever. You caught her trainer affair because she screwed up and left evidence accessible on her phone. She wouldn't be likely to make the same mistake.

She may be showing signs of cheating currently or she may just be checked out. The two are similar in symptoms. If she's cheating, her loyalty is with her AP. If she's not, she simply doesn't want you unless/until she's...well...feeling particularly needy and you're both familiar and available. When I was married to my exH I still had sex with him after I long since realized I didn't love him, didn't want to be married to him, and was between affairs or in an affair and hadn't seen my affair partner in a while. Why? Partially because of obligation. Partially because sex. Partially to keep him pacified and not in my personal business.

Sleep sex doesn't mean she wants you. It means she wants someone, but not necessarily you.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

SoccerDad15 said:


> I get it man. I am trying to find more signs and am trying to convince myself, to the point where I feel like I'm chasing shadows.
> 
> The thing is, if she is cheating, she is really good at it. She is getting it done with not a lot of time. She isn't like dressing up or wearing lots of makeup.


If...., if she's cheating it may be the sort of cheating which is all about the sex. No feelings, no romance , no lurve.

My XW (early 1980s) pursued her best friend's serial cheat husband. My guess is that her motivation went something like "He's screwing other women who are average-looking like me - I've got to prove I'm as sexy/desirable/capable as them." There may also have been an element of satisfaction in having the husband of a woman much better looking than she.

Whatever - he worked shifts and she was a SAHM. Apparently sometimes he would ring as he left night-shift to check I was at work and turn up a few minutes later at our house. She would take him to the kitchen, give him a beer (another military alcoholic) and when he had finished his drink they would do the deed on the sitting-room carpet. He was usually out of the house no more than 15, sometimes 10, minutes after he arrived.

She didn't preen herself for him, she had no time and he didn't care. Special clothes - no, but sometimes she'd go commando. In truth I don't think she cared who he was - it was an itch and anyone daft enough to scratch it would have done, and, apparently, in later years quite a few did.

What I'm saying is don't assume that, because you take more than ten minutes she would insist that anyone else did. We were at it for 40 minutes plus every night but she still got a kick out of an extra ten minutes two or three times a month.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SoccerDad15 said:


> Well you did a good job at pointing out all of my worst fears.
> 
> *She did swear to me she hasn't cheated.* I mean she would have to be an excellent liar and great at covering her tracks. Typically she doesn't lie to me as much as avoid questions.
> 
> ...


Only she did. Cheat on you. The emotional affair withe the personal trainer was cheating.

It's like someone who robs a bank using fraud looking down on an armed bank robber. 

And without justification, because when you get down to it, they are both thieves. They only vary in the methodology they use. 

Your wife doesn't respect you, which is something she needs to address, as it's her issue.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

SoccerDad15 said:


> I get it man. I am trying to find more signs and am trying to convince myself, to the point where I feel like I'm chasing shadows.
> 
> The thing is, if she is cheating, she is really good at it. She is getting it done with not a lot of time. She isn't like dressing up or wearing lots of makeup. If i could catch her cheating I think I'd have an easier time letting go.
> 
> ...


I swear this is in the Book of pretzel logic of thinking. This is not an insult, it is extremely common. People do not want their invested time to be wasted. So, they take the obvious and do everything to make it seem small. 


There is always time to cheat. 

ALWAYS.

Do yourself a favor and cruise through the CWI forum. Bathrooms, cars, lunch breaks, trips with goodnight and wake up phone calls, SAHD, SAHM, nurses, doctors, people with two jobs, with the kids in the house, gyms, masseuse, personal trainers etc etc etc.

You’ll be shocked at how many people believe their is “no time.”

I have kids, four of them, if we made time for sex in a house full of kids and both parents working...........


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

All valid points I just really don't think she is in another physical relationship right now. She has way too many emotional issues. She also has menstrual issues, where she develops cysts and has very irregular period cycles and pain when ovulating. It used to get in the way of us being intimate when we were doing it regularly and I had to choose my spots carefully. 

Her obsession is with work. I can see its all she thinks, cares and talks about. If she is having an affair of sorts it's that she is pouring everything she has into her job and neglecting me and to a degree the kids. She overcompensates with them when she has the chance out of guilt but continues to neglect me. Our therapist said the same thing. She highly doubts there is an affair going on, but did say that my wife is having a hard time being a mom, a superstar at work and a wife, so she cut out the wife part. Sucks for me. 

She's always on her work phone looking at and answering emails.(I've been through her work phone regularly and peek over her shoulder and it is always legit work.) She comes home and brings her crap with her. It all sucks and is unfair but from all of my investigations and snooping I really highly doubt she is sneaking off for sex.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

All of this started after she started her new job in May. Then she comes home from a week long work trip and tells you to get out. No sex in 4 months. She is constantly at work or focused on work phone.

This sounds like a classic workplace affair. 

There has to be someone there that she has been confiding in and talking to about how bad your relationship is. There are guys out there that see that sort of weakness a mile away and swoop like a knight in shining armor with all kinds of compliments and reiterating how bad you treat her. At that point, it is over....


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

I've had the same suspicions. Trying hard to confirm them for my own sanity. I've had no luck. Could be she is just really focusing on her career. As I said, her sexual appetite isn't the same as it was since we had kids. She gets her kicks from work presentations and overachieving. 

I've seen who and what she works with. Mostly dorky older fat dudes. I suppose anything is possible. I'm in amazing shape right now, 185 lbs, 11% body fat. So if it's her prerogative to trade me in for a bulkier older model that's fine by me. I'd have a lot easier time moving on to a newer more sleek model myself. That's not what I want though. I just want my family to stay in tact.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

SoccerDad15 said:


> She will always love me but doesn't feel in love with me.


The old 'ILYBINILWY' speech. Almost always means there is someone else. I'd put money on it (ask me how I know).

And stop waiting for her to invite you back into your own bed. Get back in your own damn bed tonight. If she doesn't like it she can go sleep somewhere else. Your wife may longer respect you, but show yourself some respect. Stop allowing yourself to be treated like a doormat.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

SoccerDad15 said:


> I've had the same suspicions. Trying hard to confirm them for my own sanity. I've had no luck. Could be she is just really focusing on her career. As I said,* her sexual appetite isn't the same as it was since we had kids. She gets her kicks from work presentations and overachieving. *
> 
> I've seen who and what she works with. Mostly dorky older fat dudes. I suppose anything is possible. I'm in amazing shape right now, 185 lbs, 11% body fat. So if it's her prerogative to trade me in for a bulkier older model that's fine by me. I'd have a lot easier time moving on to a newer more sleek model myself. That's not what I want though. I just want my family to stay in tact.


She's a woman and she's alive, don't kid yourself for the sake of your sanity. That doesn't work.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

Tex X said:


> The old 'ILYBINILWY' speech. Almost always means there is someone else. I'd put money on it (ask me how I know).
> 
> And stop waiting for her to invite you back into your own bed. Get back in your own damn bed tonight. If she doesn't like it she can go sleep somewhere else. Your wife may longer respect you, but show yourself some respect. Stop allowing yourself to be treated like a doormat.


I actually have. Not every night, but I just get a better nights sleep in my bed. So I stay on my side and make a barrier of pillows and sleep there. 

I'm really struggling to get through these holidays. We have a trip booked to stay with my parents. They have no idea what's going on and I'm not going to tell them anything until everything is finalized. Just need to get to the 27th so she doesn't ruin our trip. 

I plan on speaking to a lawyer the week after the trip. Get all my eggs lined up and approach my wife with a plan for a divorce. If it's what she really wants I will set her free.

Part of me hopes it will spur her to get her **** together and actually try to fix our marriage. 

There is a part of me, that is growing everyday, who is sick of the abuse and is looking forward to a new chapter in my life. I don't deserve to be in the situation I am in. It will suck, especially for my kids, but they will understand one day.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

SoccerDad15 said:


> I've had the same suspicions. Trying hard to confirm them for my own sanity. I've had no luck. Could be she is just really focusing on her career. As I said, her sexual appetite isn't the same as it was since we had kids. She gets her kicks from work presentations and overachieving.
> 
> I've seen who and what she works with. Mostly dorky older fat dudes. I suppose anything is possible. I'm in amazing shape right now, 185 lbs, 11% body fat. So if it's her prerogative to trade me in for a bulkier older model that's fine by me. I'd have a lot easier time moving on to a newer more sleek model myself. That's not what I want though. I just want my family to stay in tact.


A lot of men make the mistake of thinking because they look good and keep fit that means their wife wouldn't stray with the charismatic dad bod who has thinning hair at the office or wherever. Truth is, looks often have little to do with sexual attraction. It's a chemical thing. You ever see those couples where one is smoking hot and the other is anywhere from mediocre to straight troll? Yeah, that's thanks to attraction. So, yes, a charming dad bod with game that you're attracted to > the fit guy you are not attracted to.

Besides, the affair you know about was with a woman, so it's not just the dad bods she may be playing with.

Do I think she is currently having an affair? Meh, could be. Could be you're right and she's not currently having an affair, but that doesn't change the fact that she has said she doesn't want you and she has shown you with her actions that she doesn't want you.

Also, may I point out your family isn't currently intact? You're sharing a home, yes, but she has openly stated she doesn't love you, treats you as if she doesn't love you, and you're either sleeping elsewhere or with Ft Pillow between you. You're only an intact family on technicality.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

Hi All,

It has been a rocky few weeks. The plot has certainly thickened. 

Our road trip was kind of disastrous. My wife was not well, you could see it in her eyes. I was thinking it was the stress of the pending holidays and couple of trips we had planned. 

Then, I went to grab one of her sundrie bags and out fell a vial of Phentermine. All of a sudden everything is starting to make more sense. This crap makes her crazy. 

I approached her about it which caused a huge fight. She is 5'3" 130 lbs maybe up to 135, but certainly nowhere near obese for that kind of controlled substance. 

After all the fighting she said she would take half a day and stop. I didn't believe her and was right. We got through our trip from NY with few issues and through Christmas.

Yesterday I found a vial dated for a week after the first vial I found and then another in her bag from this week. Again we fought about it. I sent her articles on the dangers and what it can do to your psyche, she didn't read them.

So I took matters into my own hands yesterday and called the doctor from the pill bottle. He referred me to the weight loss center downstairs from him. So I asked that he was not aware of a prescription for a controlled substance in his name? And was he aware that my wife is not obese and that they are essentially dealing drugs in his name. I also said if I found another vial with his name on it I'd be paying him a visit which he would not like.

The weight loss manager called me and started talking HIPPA. I stopped him dead in his track and told him phentermine was dangerous and for obese people. My wife is not obese and If I find another pill bottle I'll contact every agency possible until his store is shut down and the quack upstairs loses his license. 

My wife caught wind of what I did and was super pissed. Things haven't been good. But I stand by what I did. We have three children together. I'm the patriarch and it's my responsibility to make sure my family is safe. I told her that even if she ends up leaving me or I end up leaving her I want to make sure she's off this **** and has a clear head and is not going to drop dead on our babies. 

So no, all indications are that she is not cheating on me. She is just lying to me and taking drugs behind my back. GREAT!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Indeed, as the mother of your children and someone you are living with, it is a good thing you are concerned about the drug and that you are taking some action about it.

Beyond that.... your marriage isn't really a marriage anymore. There are NO signs that there is interest on her part to participate in a close, loving, mutual, happy relationship with you. 

Is it your plan to remain in this marriage? Why?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Sorry to hear of the drug use. Side effects are decreased sexual desire. Beyond that, what is driving your W to take this diet drug when she she is 135 pounds as you have stated? What has your W said is the reason for what she is doing? Glad on intervened.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

SoccerDad,

I don't disagree with what you did, but do realize that you can only control your actions, not anyone else's.

If your wife has dangerous behaviors, lies to you, won't discuss issues rationally, and has cut off intimacy, those are major issues that ONLY SHE can fix, and she has to want to fix them for it to work.

The only thing you can do is try to create a situation where she actually wants to fix them. It may be the threat of losing you that accomplishes that, but you have to truly be ready to walk away so when you threaten it, you mean it. I wouldn't tolerate such behavior, life is too short, and there are plenty of great woman that can replace her, so tell her to get it together and what you need her to do to keep her marriage.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

I flip flop a lot. Sometimes I want out, then I think about not seeing my kids everyday and having to explain to them why I can't and I lose my nerve. Things were really good early 2019. Then she changed jobs and started taking these pills. 

She thinks she is fat and has this goal weight in her head that she'll do anything to get and maintain. Its stupid. She takes these appetite suppressants, then smokes pot and eats chocolate. 

I've told her she could be 150 and I'd still be insanely attracted to her. She works out a lot and is very muscular, and I try to explain that eight comes from muscle too!

If she can get off these drugs which are increasing her anxiety levels and making her crazy then I think we'll have a chance. Last time we had issues two years ago she had to hit rock bottom before she started making an effort in our relationship. I think I'm dealing with multi-faceted issues. Drugs, mental disorder and possibly depression. 

Honestly, it'd be easier if she was cheating. Then I can blame her that she is a terrible person. But I said vows and promised thick and thin sickness and health. I do love her still even though she is abusive currently. So I stick it out. I know without me she will fall completely apart. I don't want to see that happen to her. I don't want the kids to see that happen either. 

I've thought about leaving 1000 times. But I can't leave them. Not with her in her current state. She won't leave. So we are in a stalemate.
1AM marks 14 years together for us as we met at an NYE party after the ball dropped. This is the first time that I'm really doubting we make it another year.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Phentermine? I didn't know that was still prescribed--I thought that was taken off the market bc it caused heart valve problems. 

This is going to be an uphill battle for you. Don't be surprised when her "doctor" cuts her off, she'll go to another and feign ADD or ADHD to get a rx for ritalin or adderall. It's the speed du jour. And she will have to increase the dosage every so often to get that speedy effect/appetite suppressant she obviously loves. It's not a static drug. She will get more and more agitated, hateful, and all around nasty.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Turn the doctor in. Talk gets you nothing.

Don't think because you now know it'll end.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> Phentermine? I didn't know that was still prescribed--I thought that was taken off the market bc it caused heart valve problems.
> 
> This is going to be an uphill battle for you. Don't be surprised when her "doctor" cuts her off, she'll go to another and feign ADD or ADHD to get a rx for ritalin or adderall. It's the speed du jour. And she will have to increase the dosage every so often to get that speedy effect/appetite suppressant she obviously loves. It's not a static drug. She will get more and more agitated, hateful, and all around nasty.


Its not easy to get. Her plastic surgeon gave her a script after a tummy tuck about two years ago while she recovered and then cut her off once she could work out again. She got it in her head again earlier this year and found a quack who prescribed it to her.

She of course says its not a problem and she's in total control. I said that's what all the addicts say. 

I know its banned in the UK. This is the Phen part of Fen Phen. 

Yep I know I'm in for a long uphill battle. She still blames me for all of her problems and says its not the drug. She is very volatile and yes nasty. We were in Disney World and she was literally the only person in the park not smiling. She calms and is nice when the effects wear off. Even affectionate a bit as she will give me hugs and tell me she loves me. its like Jekyll and Hyde. I can tell now when she is on it. Her face changes. It reminds me of my mom when she drinks. Growing up I had two moms, the nice one and the evil one who would become a monster after 2 glasses of wine. 

She was never into uppers. We've been together a long time. in our Twenties, before kids, we experimented with some stuff but mostly stuck to pot. We still smoke it, she seems to function well on it. too well. Like she can smoke and go to work. I can't muster much besides snacking and staring at the TV when I smoke. 

She was pissed when I called the doctor and threatened him. But it feels like on some level she was happy I did it too.


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## SoccerDad15 (Dec 10, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> Turn the doctor in. Talk gets you nothing.
> 
> Don't think because you now know it'll end.


YES! I think I will. Googling how to file a complaint with the AMA right now.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

SoccerDad15 said:


> Its not easy to get. Her plastic surgeon gave her a script after a tummy tuck about two years ago while she recovered and then cut her off once she could work out again. She got it in her head again earlier this year and found a quack who prescribed it to her.
> 
> She of course says its not a problem and she's in total control. I said that's what all the addicts say.
> 
> ...


i think you’re incorrect about your wife functioning well on pot. It’s not that she can “handle” it. It’s that she’s become tolerant to it. I think you’re essentially helping to legitimize her drug seeking by smoking pit yourself. Stop toking. Don’t let her create equivalence in her mind.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

SoccerDad15 said:


> YES! I think I will. Googling how to file a complaint with the AMA right now.


You should be focusing on how to divorce this woman instead of worrying about this stuff.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I would make a mental deadline for myself if I were you. Say you give her 6 months to stay clean and get back on track. Did you find out when she started the meds? Does it coincide with the work trip she took when she suddenly decided that she didn't want you anymore? Is she desperate to lose weight FOR someone? Honestly, the timing of her change of heart is very suspicious.


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