# dazed and confused



## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

hi,me and my wife have been married for 9 years,we have a beautiful 2 year old boy,and i love her dearly.with that being said i do believe she has had at least 1 affair on me.i found out she was talking to her ex boyfriend for over a year almost on a daily basis,she had his number under a fake name his name was pete but she had the contact listed as"amber"to hide it from me.he lives halfway across the country but there was one"business"trip she went on where im pretty sure they met up,he lives close to where she went and he called when her plane landed but i was told not to because her plane was landing too late.anyways she claims it was purely friendship,and he was just giving her advice on how to deal with our marital problems at the time,and that they were merely "catching up".she denies any wrong doing and says im crazy,we have fought about this many times.im told that im not to bring it up,if i do she immediately goes on the defense and it turns into a huge fight,so i hold it all in but it consumes me to the point where i cant even function or enjoy life anymore,any advice or input will be appreciated thanks.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Start digging. VAR, keylogger, spyware on her phone, whatever it takes. She's lying to you. Do not confront her till you have evidence - if you do she will just lie her way out of it.

Have a look at the newbie link in my signature.

Is this guy married? Maybe contact his wife.

When you find out exactly what she's up to, what do you want? Reconcile or divorce?


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Start digging. VAR, keylogger, spyware on her phone, whatever it takes. She's lying to you. Do not confront her till you have evidence - if you do she will just lie her way out of it.
> 
> Have a look at the newbie link in my signature.
> 
> ...


Pretty much it. She has no right talking about or seeking advice for her marital problems to a member of the opposite sex unless it is a counselor. If she is unhappy regarding anything about you, she needs to let YOU know first.

Do not tolerate the mushroom treatment!


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Based on my experience, she's probably sealed the deal or at least planned to.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

yeah,i know shes not doing it anymore,after she got caught she deleted pretty much everything before i could get to it,facebook/myspace messages,text messages,phone numbers,ect.my problem is that she wont come clean and admit it,she wont even admit having an emotional affair,i mean who "catches up"everyday for a year? i did read one message where she was saying how"special"he is to her and how she doesnt have sex with me,which is a lie,however she claims it was purely friendship,but im sure there were more messages,but like i said they were all deleted before i could get to them,she says she is sorry and has been kissing my ass and being ms perfect wife,and says this was a wakeup call for our marriage,i just wish she would admit the truth so we can move on but if she cant tell the truth about this what else is she lying about?can i ever trust her again?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

You can't trust her until she's honest which from what you say she hasn't been. She's trying to rugsweep her affair which does not work. It's going to eat at you until it's resolved.

Have you laid down any consequences for her?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Offer her to take a polygraph and see her reaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

tom67 said:


> Offer her to take a polygraph and see her reaction.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How dare you, how could you even not believe me your wife. I have never done anything to make it seem like I was cheating.

Croc tears, croc tears, croc tears. I need time to think about us now....

Then you get the cold shoulder from her hoping you'll cave in and go groveling back to her to apologize for being such an @ss and it's all your fault. Then you need to work on your insecurity and jealousy.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

CH said:


> How dare you, how could you even not believe me your wife. I have never done anything to make it seem like I was cheating.
> 
> Croc tears, croc tears, croc tears. I need time to think about us now....
> 
> Then you get the cold shoulder from her hoping you'll cave in and go groveling back to her to apologize for being such an @ss and it's all your fault. Then you need to work on your insecurity and jealousy.


Ya I don't really get the point of asking for a polygraph when they're either still having the affair or won't even admit to having one period. They're just going to refuse. And you know what the reaction is going to be.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

CH said:


> How dare you, how could you even not believe me your wife. I have never done anything to make it seem like I was cheating.
> 
> Croc tears, croc tears, croc tears. I need time to think about us now....
> 
> Then you get the cold shoulder from her hoping you'll cave in and go groveling back to her to apologize for being such an @ss and it's all your fault. Then you need to work on your insecurity and jealousy.



Ding ding ding ! We have a winner


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I repeat:



Hope1964 said:


> Start digging. VAR, keylogger, spyware on her phone, whatever it takes. She's lying to you. Do not confront her till you have evidence - if you do she will just lie her way out of it.
> 
> Have a look at the newbie link in my signature.
> 
> ...


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> yeah,i know shes not doing it anymore,after she got caught she deleted pretty much everything before i could get to it,facebook/myspace messages,text messages,phone numbers,ect.my problem is that she wont come clean and admit it,she wont even admit having an emotional affair,i mean who "catches up"everyday for a year? i did read one message where she was saying how"special"he is to her and how she doesnt have sex with me,which is a lie,however she claims it was purely friendship,but im sure there were more messages,but like i said they were all deleted before i could get to them,she says she is sorry and has been kissing my ass and being ms perfect wife,and says this was a wakeup call for our marriage,i just wish she would admit the truth so we can move on but if she cant tell the truth about this what else is she lying about?can i ever trust her again?


Gee. Why would someone go through all the trouble of deleting facebook, myspace and text messages if nothing happened and there wasn't "even" an emotional affair? For that matter why would she put Pete's name as Amber? I mean, it's not like she had anything to hide at all because she told you nothing happened!

Brother, take 20 minutes and read through any number of threads here and unfortunately you're gonna see one thing: Every single story has the wayward spouse saying the same sh-t. It's in the script. A f'ng script that somehow they share through osmosis or something cuz they all say the same.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Originally Posted by Hope1964 View Post


> Start digging. VAR, keylogger, spyware on her phone, whatever it takes. She's lying to you. Do not confront her till you have evidence - if you do she will just lie her way out of it.
> 
> Have a look at the newbie link in my signature.
> 
> ...


That's a lot to throw at him at once, maybe. 

OP, which of those things can you start doing within the next few days? Are you ready to take those actionable steps? If not, why?


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

yup,i definitely heard all that crap from her,first of all im far from perfect but i hate when she blames her behavior on me,it was all my fault,as far as polygraphs go i really dont believe in them,i think they are inaccurate she says she will take one but she could be bluffing,but is it possible she didnt physically cheat? we all know she emotionally did and i would be willing to forgive that if she would admit it,she claims she is dishonest with me to avoid a confrontation,we went to two different marriage counselors and they both took her side and told me to move forward,and that im crazy,but i just cant ignore my gut feeling...this is torture


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Google how to recover deleted face book messages/chats. Many times they can be found.

Also, its possible to recover deleted texts from many smart phones, all this according to posters that have done it.

There is a thread here about how to do this type of thing.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...one-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html

Good luck


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok keyloggers on the computers then and get more info on the om.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> yup,i definitely heard all that crap from her,first of all im far from perfect but i hate when she blames her behavior on me,it was all my fault,as far as polygraphs go i really dont believe in them,i think they are inaccurate she says she will take one but she could be bluffing,but is it possible she didnt physically cheat? we all know she emotionally did and i would be willing to forgive that if she would admit it,she claims she is dishonest with me to avoid a confrontation,*we went to two different marriage counselors and they both took her side and told me to move forward,and that im crazy,*but i just cant ignore my gut feeling...this is torture


This is why Marriage counseling is such an awful idea. They have no freaking clue how to handle marriages on the rocks due to infidelity. You need to dump these two yesterday.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> yup,i definitely heard all that crap from her,first of all im far from perfect but i hate when she blames her behavior on me,it was all my fault,as far as polygraphs go i really dont believe in them,i think they are inaccurate she says she will take one but she could be bluffing,but is it possible she didnt physically cheat? we all know she emotionally did and i would be willing to forgive that if she would admit it,she claims she is dishonest with me to avoid a confrontation,we went to two different marriage counselors and they both took her side and told me to move forward,and that im crazy,but i just cant ignore my gut feeling...this is torture


Man, my wife had a five year long affair. When I first confronted her about it, do ya know what she told me? That I didn't give her enough intimacy.

Intimacy.

Are you f'ng kidding me?

Seriously, I gave her everything she ever dreamed of and always, ALWAYS gave her intimacy. The rewriting of marrital history is what she had done, and it's what your wife is doing right now.

The good news is I snapped her out of her affair fog within a couple hours and her false reality world came crashing down on her pretty hard. She has shown me remorse every day since. And Dday was 3/6/2012. Every day.

Don't let her gaslight you, brother. Don't let her trickle truth you. THAT is the stuff that kills marriages faster than the act of the affair itself.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Did you bring up to her if it was just a friend that she was catching up with, then why did she have to have a fake name ?

She is what is called rug sweeping. Hit swift and hit hard. She is yelling to make you back off. The more she yells, the more you have to be calm but stern. 

It is similar to what happen to me. They had the Emotional Affair and then sealed the deal with a Physical Affair, then of course went back to EA. They are just planning the next visit together or how she is going to leave. 

She deleted everything, so she is ashamed and embarrassed. 

You need to do the 180 steps. 

I would get divorce papers written up and an appointment with a marriage counselor and tell her its this ( show her the D papers ) or this and show her the appointment card. 

But I would blow her up and this guy up to everyone. You need to slap her in the face with it until she crumbles. Let her get inundated with phone calls from family and friend on wtf is going on. Let her family shame her and hopefully some rational friends. 

Then blow this man up if he is married or dating.. Make him busy enough with his own problems that he won't have time to deal with your wife. 

If she keeps denying just keep going with the divorce papers and show her your not fu.cking around. You really need to scare her into letting know your really ready to walk. 

I didn't do any of this and pretty much pus.sied out. 

This is why my wife is leaving me with my 2 kids. Because I didn't do this, it allowed her to walk all over me even more, which now has crushed any and all chances of making this work out, ever because now that I have gathered my senses I can see what a piece of work she is and my pride will not let me go through this again with her. 

Its retarded I know. You need to really make a very simple, strong statement its either me or we are done and you cannot blink at all in this staring contest, because it will cost you your marriage.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

wow,am i glad i found this site,its amazing how i didnt see this all before,trickle truth,rug sweeping,she is doing all that and more,i guess all cheaters have the same handbook,as far as spyware and tapping her phone goes,im not very computer savy when it comes to that kind of stuff,i tried to install spyware on her phone but i couldnt get it to work,im not really worried about my future im a good looking,successful guy,would have no problem getting a date if i were to be single,but i want to try to save the marriage if possible for my little boy,i never had a father growing up and i want to be here for him so im torn,i guess im in a state of limbo right now..


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

*I think she hooked up with her ex.boyfriend. That he is to far for it to be anything more than a one timer. She will never tell you the truth. She will keep him in the picture. Now she is doing better at hiding it from you.*


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

joseph242 said:


> wow,am i glad i found this site,its amazing how i didnt see this all before,trickle truth,rug sweeping,she is doing all that and more,i guess all cheaters have the same handbook,as far as spyware and tapping her phone goes,im not very computer savy when it comes to that kind of stuff,i tried to install spyware on her phone but i couldnt get it to work,im not really worried about my future im a good looking,successful guy,would have no problem getting a date if i were to be single,but i want to try to save the marriage if possible for my little boy,i never had a father growing up and i want to be here for him so im torn,i guess im in a state of limbo right now..


Take it from someone who wishes his parents divorced when he was younger, you can still be a father and not be married. A 2 parent household doesn't always equal a happy childhood. Especially when relations between the parents aren't good.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

I would tell her that I wanted to go to marriage counseling and bring it up there so she can't turn it on you.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Not all MC are good. Too many crappy ones. Research and interview MC to see if they specialize in infidelity. The others are in it for $


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

I'm really thankful for finding this site I thought I was going crazy but now I have a support network of people who know what I'm going through and know the hell I'm feeling inside.I have decided that there is no more reasoning with her she has totally shut down Im not to bring it up if I do I get the same automated response move on move forward its in the past nothing happened.if I push the issue she throws a child like tantrum and often get violent I've been punched kicked and spit on.she says she's done answering my questions..really why would she have a problem answering questions if there's nothing to hide.I would ultimately like to reconcile if at all possible if she had a physical affair then fine we can work through it but I need honesty and closure to move on.thanks for everybody's advice and support
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

I recommend reading the book, "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Both of you need to read it, your library may have a copy. 
You have been a victim of bad marriage counseling. If you wish to reconsider counseling in the future, and I think you guys needs it, then be sure to ask if the counselor has experience helping couples recover from affairs and are familiar with Not Just Friends. 

You can't heal the marriage as long as she continues to rugsweep it all and gas-light you.

Please keep a VAR on you, the next time she attacks you, call the police and have her arrested for domestic violence. Seriously.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Joseph---you have gotten this far----but basically you have done nothing

Your one and only weapon---is threat of D/D----do not hold them back because of your son---he is not in a good envirnonment now, if your wife is physically banging on you, and your fights get to that level

Has your wife been presented with the possibility of the reality of being on her own, as in D, single mother, who will scramble to work as many jobs as it takes to just "make it" each month---does she have any idea of how hard it is to live on your own, and raise a child----HAS ANY OF THIS BEEN PRESENTED TO HER

Why are you allowing her to physically attack you------you have come on here and moaned and groaned---gotten advice---now it's time for you to lay down the law

She doesn't get a say, she doesn't get to argue, she doesn't get to discuss---tell her what you want, DO NOT STAND AROUND AND LET HER ARGUE-----make your statement and leave

At this point, you go dark on her, tell her she is from now on responsible for half of all bills of every and any kind---mtg/car/insurances/necessities of life, also either you or her leave the marital bedroom, and you speak to her, only if it is out of necessity.

Stop coddling her---give her a very hard look at what reality will be if you D. her.----AND DO NOT HOLD ANY OF THIS BACK WITH YOUR SON BEING THE EXCUSE ---he will be way better off w/out all of this crap that is coming down around him everyday


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## skip76 (Aug 30, 2011)

Most important is if you can get deleted texts off phone. Hopefully she has I phone that hasn't been synced. I am also vindictive and would take her phone and text OM "my husband knows. We need to get stories straight" then hopefully you can have a text convo with him. When she finds out. 1 you don't care 2 deny the same way she is denying using the same phrases so she gets the point. Number one rule should be to never fear your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> I have decided that there is no more reasoning with her she has totally shut down Im not to bring it up if I do I get the same automated response move on move forward its in the past nothing happened.if I push the issue she throws a child like tantrum and often get violent *I've been punched kicked and spit on.she says she's done answering my questions*..really why would she have a problem answering questions if there's nothing to hide.I would ultimately like to reconcile if at all possible if she had a physical affair then fine we can work through it but I need honesty and closure to move on.thanks for everybody's advice and support
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hit her hard with reality, the whole ramifications:
Lawyer up and file. Go to the yugular.
Expose her to people who's opinion she respects.
Detach, focus on your self and your kids. Implement, live the 180. Dark on her. Stop demanding, stop asking, stop engaging. Don't explain, don't reason... black, dark on her. Standars asnwers are "I'm sorry tou feel this way" and "I'm not OK with this".

The Healing Heart: The 180
Just Let Them Go


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

I'd circle back again on the polygraph issue.

While not 100% accurate either way, they will definitely help get you going in the right direction.

You do need to find a good one though. As others here have said, ask your local police department who they use

Tell your wife :Honey, I have been thinking about your offer to take a poly to put my mind at ease and help me get over my feelings of insecurity. I have scheduled one for next Tuesday at 1 PM. If the results are as you say, I'll get some IC to try and discover why I have these issues of insecurity surrounding your fidelity"


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

i know this affair took place in 2009 but i just found out about it recently,we dont fight and argue about it anymore,as long as i dont bring it up,we get along fine.like i said since she got caught she has really been trying,she always said she hated sex and we would go months on end without it but since she got caught,shes like a pornstar in the bedroom..lol maybe shes just guilty.as far as her physical violence against me she says she is tired of being interrogated and cant control her anger,so as long as i dont bring it up were fine,plus im 6'5 and 280 lbs so i just laugh it off,still doesnt make it right i know.as far as a polygraph goes i dont need it,i know what happened,so does she..it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out.my problem is that she wont come clean about the affair she just continues to carpet sweep the whole thing.also this wasnt the only ex she was communicating with there was one other guy too who was local but she sticks to the "were just friends catching up"story..trickle down truth,ect..like i said i want to reconcile and save our marriage and family but frankly im insulted that she thinks im stupid enough to believe her b/s.i know i have to do some serious soul searching and take some action soon because until i get closure,this will eat me alive,and holding it in to avoid and arguement and carpet sweeping wont work for me.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Maybe you can send her to a nunnery, like king arthur did with fair guinevere

seriously, if she is/has been with multiple men-----and she has admitted to contact with both---let her have her "they are just friends", defense----the men as friends is way out of line, on its own,------ your comeback to that is MARRIED WOMEN DO NOT HAVE SINGLE, or MARRIED MEN AS FRIENDS---that is to be explained as follows---she can talk to single men, in passing, a quick how are you, what is going on---that conversation maybe a couple of minutes---ONCE OR TWICE EVERY 6 WEEKS----married women do not get to converse at length with other men---if they want those rights---they become single

You TELL your wife---you don't discuss, you don't argue, you DO NOT SHOW EMOTION---- You TELL your wife, that as a married wife and mother---she is way out of line just having these men as friends---and if, that is what she wants to do---then she CAN FILE FOR D., and talk to as many men as she wants

That is what you say in the beginning---then you come back with ACTIONABLE boundaries---she accedes to your wishes---there is no arguing, no discussion------you tell her, that, to stay in this mge., as a family unit, the boundaries, will be in place, and that is it---AND YOU WALK AWAY-----STOP GIVING HER ANY CHANCE TO GET IN A COME BACK-------As of right now she accedes to your wishes, or this mge., IS OVER

I am a betting man, and I am willing to bet---if you DO NOT ARGUE WITH HER, SHOW NO EMOTION---she will cave in.----She knows she has a he*l of a lot to lose if you D., her---and she needs to start fighting for her family, and stop fighting for her right to talk to strange men, who would crumble your family, and not think twice about it.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

jnj, your advice can be ott sometimes. And right now it is. 

Joseph, the advice given here, generally, is sound. You know she is bs'ing you and it is just a case of how you wrap this up. I would suggest a polygraph. Yeah they are inaccurate, but who cares. Might just scare her into giving you more. And the threat of divorce. That might make her wake up. As she is not continuing her affairs it seems this is your only way forward. You know the truth, she does. So if all you want is her to admit it, this is probably the only ammo you have seeing as it was so long ago. Shame you can't retrieve the info being so long ago. 

I would keep a close eye on all she does now though. Spyware, passwords to all email, phone logs etc.

And yes, no male friends. She cannot be trusted with them. No clubbing on her own, no parties on her own. She should happily agree to this if she wants to change and if she wants to keep you.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

*You may never get the complete story. A cheater is a lair who is very selfish. *


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you read the wayward wife instructions with her? They are in the newbie thread.

Also, have you read MMSLP yet? MMSLP is an absolute must.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

chapparal said:


> Also, have you read MMSLP yet? MMSLP is an absolute must.


What is MMSLP


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

yeah,so on to guy #2,i found his number on her cell phone too,however this time the number wasnt hidden under a fake name,i guess her and this guy never actually went out she says he was an old h.s friend and they had hooked up sexually a couple times before she knew me then they decided they would be better off as friends.i asked her then why do you still have his number? house number and cell number too i might add.her answer was she ran into him one day on a street corner and she took his number just to be nice but never called him..hmmmm sounds fishy..anyways long story short turns out that story wasnt true,so her new story was that she saw on facebook that he had a death in the family and sent him a message with her phone number in case he needed somebody to talk to.but she says he never called,oh but wait then she admitted to having one conversation with him,however i read the obituary,and the death occurred in 2008,so the dates dont match up if her story is true.hmmmm...then after months of fighting and agony she admitted to having 2 conversations with him..trickle down truth anybody??my question is if this was all so innocent as she says it is then why is there a need to lie? i have never been a jealous guy,she could have been like he had a death in the family and i called to say im sorry,i would have been fine with that but the fact that she is going to such great lengths to lie throws a red flag to me,and yes i did contact this guy myself he said they talked a few times but nothing happened,but then again if i screwed a married woman and her husband called,i would probably say the same thing,so who knows..


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> What is MMSLP


The Married Man Sex Life Primer...it's not just a sex book. There is some really good relationship info, it's not all alpha male chest thumping either.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I second the polygraph suggestion.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

i think its time for me to make a move here,i have gotten some good advise and i want to thank you all,i really do feel so much better by sharing my story and knowing there are others that are going through the same feelings as me.anyways i brought up the idea of a polygraph in marriage counseling,and the counselor said"thats an outrageous request"and he advises my wife not to do it and that i should take her word for it because after all without trust our marriage is doomed.so basically im crazy and obsessed,and theres something wrong with me,thats what everybody including her friends and family think,but i know im right,she is "considering"the polygraph at the moment..anyways one last thought..why does it seem that the nice guys always finish last and the a-hole always gets the girl..example i am a hard working man,great job,6 figure income,physically fit,attractive,provide for my family,treat her like gold..the ex she was chasing,ex con,no job,lives in trailer park with his mom at 35,cheated on her multiple times when they were together,and an overall piece of crap,all i ever heard about this guy was how horrible he was to her and how i "saved"her..but yet she still chases him?deep down i know she still loves him and that i can never compete,ill always be #2,or the guy she setteled for..just dont get it.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

joseph242 said:


> i think its time for me to make a move here,i have gotten some good advise and i want to thank you all,i really do feel so much better by sharing my story and knowing there are others that are going through the same feelings as me.anyways i brought up the idea of a polygraph in marriage counseling,and the counselor said"thats an outrageous request"and he advises my wife not to do it and that i should take her word for it because after all without trust our marriage is doomed.so basically im crazy and obsessed,and theres something wrong with me,thats what everybody including her friends and family think,but i know im right,she is "considering"the polygraph at the moment..anyways one last thought..why does it seem that the nice guys always finish last and the a-hole always gets the girl..example i am a hard working man,great job,6 figure income,physically fit,attractive,provide for my family,treat her like gold..the ex she was chasing,ex con,no job,lives in trailer park with his mom at 35,cheated on her multiple times when they were together,and an overall piece of crap,all i ever heard about this guy was how horrible he was to her and how i "saved"her..but yet she still chases him?deep down i know she still loves him and that i can never compete,ill always be #2,or the guy she setteled for..just dont get it.


You need to ditch that marriage counselor.



> why does it seem that the nice guys always finish last


Because they do.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Pretty much it. She has no right talking about or seeking advice for her marital problems to a member of the opposite sex unless it is a counselor. If she is unhappy regarding anything about you, she needs to let YOU know first.
> 
> Do not tolerate the mushroom treatment!


Actually, I think people *do* have a right to talk with people about their marital problems, no matter what their sex...

*However, a former lover, whose name is stored under a lie on her phone? That is not one of them who should be talked with on a regular basis if at all!*


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Jasel said:


> You need to ditch that marriage counselor.


Immediately, but not before telling him he doesn't have a fvcking clue as to what he is doing. God how I hate most MCs.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MC is an idiot
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

GET RID OF THAT MC. He is HARMING your marriage and you are wasting your money!!!!!

Did you tell your wife it's polygraph or the door???


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Your wife is a wonderful dancer. Dancing around the truth the way she does - she must be light on her feet as well as the truth. I wouldn't be too sure that she isn't seeing someone now. 

And that MC is a moron. According to him you (or anyone else he counsels) should just accept whatever is said and embrace it as the truth. Ridiculous.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

hi everyone,update had the polygraph test done.she agreed but it wasnt easy fighting,threats,ect but ultimately she agreed.ok on to the test.looked up a guy on the internet he had all the credentials and over 30 years experience.i did some research myself and it all checked out.paid him $500 bucks,and he said he would travel to our house,only 1 hour away.so he shows up,my wife is nervous as hell,twirling her hair,looking out the window every 5 seconds,tells me not to speak to her.anyways he does the "pre interview"asks questions,and formulates a list of questions.then im told to leave while they conduct actual test,i guess this is standard practice.so i take my son to get a happy meal,we are literally gone 10 minutes and i get a text to come back,wow that was quick,anyways i come back and he basically said she passed with flying colors and she definetly didnt cheat.now shes gloating and saying"i told you so".honestly im not convinced at all,i dont believe in polygraphs and i think i got duped out of 500 bucks,but i guess at this point i gotta let it go,but one question that will always haunt me is if she didnt cheat then why all the lies,and deleted texts,and fake phone numbers?guess ill never know.on a positive note since the test we have been reading the book"not just friends"that was suggested to read on here.it has done alot of good for both of us,she now acknowledges that she did have an emotional affair,the book opened her eyes to this and she never looked at it like that before,so at this point i think were going to try and reconcile,but from now on im going to be more careful and know the warning signs.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

I do think you got duped... very very badly.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

I've never heard of a polygraph testing where the spouse was required to leave the room? Is it really standard procedure?


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> *I've never heard of a polygraph testing where the spouse was required to leave the room?* Is it really standard procedure?


:scratchhead:

and you took your son for happy meal.REALLY?:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

Why you didnt waited out side the room?


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## Yessongs72 (Dec 6, 2012)

There's a simple rhyme for this situation (oh yes, and for my WW)...

it goes like this...

"Ex = Sex"

(fat b'stard!)


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

i was told by the polygraph examiner that this was standard procedure for me to leave the premises,otherwise the person being questioned may become nervous or distracted,im no expert on polygraph tests so i figured i would comply.i took my 2 year old son to get a happy meal for lunch.we didnt even get out of the drive through and i got a text to come back,the test was done.seemed awful fast to administer a thorough test (10-15 minutes tops)but like i said im no expert.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

I don't think you changing rooms or going out of state would make a difference.

I'm no expert either, that in fact may be the case and they may be telling the truth... But we need more info from poly experts of TAM.

Don't panic. If it turns out it was a scam, you can always dismiss these poly results and insist for another poly.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

And if your wife slipped him a hundred to say she passed? If she made him feel guilty for breaking up a family?

Nothing has really changed and you need to reckonize this. She still was way too deep with an ex. She lied about it to her husband. She trickle truthed you. Under these circumstances it is only logical to assume the worst happened.

Why does she go from cutting you off from sex for months to turning into a pornstar with you? The reason this happens is because she was involved with another man in some manner. Why again lie to you about her other ex?

Let her win and tuck tail if you want, but this will not go away until you force the issue. Force her hand.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

10, 15 min huh? perhaps just enough time to satisfy the testers needs?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

I remember another poster where they made him get out as well only to call him back shortly. Guess what the results were from that?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Maybe your wife greased his palms....and his c0ck. Don't ask for another poly. Wait for a week or a fortnight, let the dust settle a bit. Make the mood at home comfortable and loving , give her a chance to let her guard down. Meanwhile have a PI tail her and do the recon work for you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

joseph242 said:


> i think its time for me to make a move here,i have gotten some good advise and i want to thank you all,i really do feel so much better by sharing my story and knowing there are others that are going through the same feelings as me.anyways i brought up the idea of a polygraph in marriage counseling,and the counselor said"thats an outrageous request"and he advises my wife not to do it and that i should take her word for it because after all without trust our marriage is doomed.so basically im crazy and obsessed,and theres something wrong with me,thats what everybody including her friends and family think,but i know im right,she is "considering"the polygraph at the moment..anyways one last thought..why does it seem that the nice guys always finish last and the a-hole always gets the girl..example i am a hard working man,great job,6 figure income,physically fit,attractive,provide for my family,treat her like gold..the ex she was chasing,ex con,no job,lives in trailer park with his mom at 35,cheated on her multiple times when they were together,and an overall piece of crap,all i ever heard about this guy was how horrible he was to her and how i "saved"her..but yet she still chases him?deep down i know she still loves him and that i can never compete,ill always be #2,or the guy she setteled for..just dont get it.



Because birds of a feather flock together. Trite but true. At least she knows her place.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Bjorne. Nothing seems to show she is cheating now. You think he will find anything?

I think his best bet would have been to pay that money to a pro who could hack into her phone and recover emails and texts. Getting a var and tracking software on her phone email should be his top priority.

If she still won't fess up I think you gotta consider putting a divorce on the table to smoke her out.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Oops, just saw the results of the poly. Not Just Friends is great.

Now download or get the book MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER, and you can let the other nice guys worry about finishing last.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

wow,and i thought getting a polygraph would put and end to this hell,but it didnt and im out 500 bucks.as far as doing sexual favors for the polygraph examiner to manipulate the test as some of you suggest i highly doubt it.the guy was like 400 pounds and smelled like he hasnt showered in a week,if she did that,well thats her problem i guess..lol..who knows what really happened,maybe the guy felt guilty about breaking up our family,maybe shes telling the truth,or maybe the test was inaccurate,im more confused now than ever,polygraph was a bad idea.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

UP FRONT: I don't know jack about polygraphers. 

However, a polygrapher going home to home instead of having an office seems off to me. IMO it's kind of like a dentist coming to your home to extract teeth. Possible but unlikely. And if possible - speaks to the lack of professionalism. 

Did you have an option of going to his office - if he even had one? IMO lack of an office, making house calls, etc reduces his professionalism and increases the shady factor by several magnitudes. 

Still, you've accepted the results (what else could you do?), she "passed" (one way or another), is being sexual again, not suspicious - then give the issue a rest unless you have cause to suspect something is currently going on. 

Just assume she dodged a bullet. She now knows you won't take things lightly. You have a son to look after - make that the priority.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Maybe your wife greased his palms....and his c0ck. Don't ask for another poly. Wait for a week or a fortnight, let the dust settle a bit. Make the mood at home comfortable and loving , give her a chance to let her guard down. Meanwhile have a PI tail her and do the recon work for you.


:iagree:


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> hi everyone,update had the polygraph test done.she agreed but it wasnt easy fighting,threats,ect but ultimately she agreed.ok on to the test.looked up a guy on the internet he had all the credentials and over 30 years experience.i did some research myself and it all checked out.paid him $500 bucks,and he said he would travel to our house,only 1 hour away.so he shows up,my wife is nervous as hell,twirling her hair,looking out the window every 5 seconds,tells me not to speak to her.anyways he does the "pre interview"asks questions,and formulates a list of questions.then im told to leave while they conduct actual test,i guess this is standard practice.so i take my son to get a happy meal,we are literally gone 10 minutes and i get a text to come back,wow that was quick,anyways i come back and he basically said she passed with flying colors and she definetly didnt cheat.now shes gloating and saying"i told you so".honestly im not convinced at all,i dont believe in polygraphs and i think i got duped out of 500 bucks,but i guess at this point i gotta let it go,but one question that will always haunt me is if she didnt cheat then why all the lies,and deleted texts,and fake phone numbers?guess ill never know.on a positive note since the test we have been reading the book"not just friends"that was suggested to read on here.it has done alot of good for both of us,she now acknowledges that she did have an emotional affair,the book opened her eyes to this and she never looked at it like that before,so at this point i think were going to try and reconcile,but from now on im going to be more careful and know the warning signs.




Joseph:

She either handed him (the polygraphist) money, or did a sexual favour.

(Less likely scenarios: 1) she pleaded with him to save her marriage and he conceded out of the goodness of his heart (yeah. I believe THAT). 2) She actually cheated the polygraph).

You should have had a hidden camera or a VAR in the room. But then, you didn’t know he would ask you to leave the room.

Now, all you can do is: pretend to believe the polygraph results, pretend to apologize profusely, pretend to become a newly committed spouse, and then, wait for her to believe you have lowered your guard completely, and do something of this sort again. And catch her then with evidence.

But all that will make your marriage an utter farce.

What a pity that good men such as you have to be debase themselves to that level, just because the spouse cannot practice good boundaries.


and the irony: you end up acting like a jerk spouse, forced to be jealous of men who are way below you in human or social quality.


Leave alone the infidelity, just this - this extraneous (because you didn't do it yourself, she forced it on you) debasement of you as a man and a human, is reason enough to walk.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Summer4744 said:


> Bjorne. Nothing seems to show she is cheating now. You think he will find anything!
> 
> I think his best bet would have been to pay that money to a pro who could hack into her phone and recover emails and texts. Getting a var and tracking software on her phone email should be his top priority.
> 
> If she still won't fess up I think you gotta consider putting a divorce on the table to smoke her out.


You bet they will. The OP could dig up credit reports and phone bills. Meanwhile, do all the spade work with your lawyer. Shore up your finances. Do the amateur spy work that's generally recommended here but if that becomes too stressful, a detective is more than competent enough to do the dirty work, if the OP can afford one. 

Meanwhile, on the home front act like the perfect pvssy husband and let her start feeling like the entitled princess. If there is an AP involved, she'll go crawling back to him to get her fix. Or she'll start searching for new studs. Either way the OP's will become enlightened. I'd give a window of say six months where you do all of the above.

And if you're going to hit her with the big D, OP, shock her with it. And that means no warnings.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> And if you're going to hit her with the big D, OP, shock her with it. And that means no warnings.


This. So frustrating watching BS (not talking about OP specifically) make empty threats and set ultimatums they don't back up. Not to mention giving the WS a choice in how to proceed. Don't say "WS you do A or I will do B". You do B regardless and they'll either take you seriously because they see you're capable of taking action and do A on their own accord or they won't. And if they won't then they most likely wouldn't have done A with an ultimatum anyway.

And don't tell them you're going to file, just file and let them find out the hard way.

But back to you joe, what is your next step? Any ideas?


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Okay, really? Just shock her with D? Because he suspects that the poly was fixed? What will that accomplish? If she is telling the truth, she won't be able to give him what he needs. If she isn't telling the truth, she may take the truth to the grave.

That cannot be the path in this.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Okay, really? Just shock her with D? Because he suspects that the poly was fixed? What will that accomplish? If she is telling the truth, she won't be able to give him what he needs. If she isn't telling the truth, she may take the truth to the grave.
> 
> That cannot be the path in this.


Read my post again pup. Six months, six months to weed out the truth. Then its up to him to drop it or drop the bomb. So what if he can't get the truth out? The truth is his wife has shown all the signs of a two bit wh0re in the middle of an affair. Having the libido of a nun during her A and after parts of it come to light boom a pornstar.

Look at it this way a D bomb can put the WW into marriage saving mode. Meaning, she'll likely take another polygraph test if he asks for it and this time the OP can make sure that it isn't rigged. 

Well what he does is up to him. But dropping this issue is in many ways rugsweeping. I wouldn't be able to sleep well at night with all these doubts. And there is nothing I hate more than losing sleep. But that's just me.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> Well what he does is up to him. But dropping this issue is in many ways rugsweeping. I wouldn't be able to sleep well at night with all these doubts. And there is nothing I hate more than losing sleep. But that's just me.


I don't think that dropping the issue should be choice either.

But, time fades criticism. If he divorces without knowing an irrefutable truth, in the future if he starts to think "what if"si what will happen then?


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Okay, really? Just shock her with D? Because he suspects that the poly was fixed? What will that accomplish? If she is telling the truth, she won't be able to give him what he needs. If she isn't telling the truth, she may take the truth to the grave.
> 
> That cannot be the path in this.


Shock her with D because she cheated on him. The poly is irrelevant. I dont think she offered sex to the poly guy, but what's a thousand dollars to her to grease some palms when she could lose her meal ticket for life? Why would this poly guy refuse a grand to lie to you?

When a woman texts daily, withholds sex, and trickle truths she is hiding something. You don't have anything concrete on her but because of her deception she is forcing you to assume the worst. 

For the opening poster your problem is that you are making everything about you discovering the truth when you shouldn't have to. She has done enough for you to assume the worst so the onus is on her to prove her faithfulness to you. 

If she doesn't respect you enough to recognize that, you will have to force her hand. Otherwise quit complaining about it and move on.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Look, in statistics when something is presented, it is supposed that something is true for +/- 2 Standard deviations of a population(which is %95).

When a woman is doingsomething that is considered "a big red flag" it is clear that she is %95 a cheater. But there is a reality of %5 that she hasn't cheated. Now it may not be as high as %5, it may be %1 or less considering there is a lot of stuff pointing that way.

If OP can overcome the potential "what if"s, then he should go for it. I know I would. But if he isn't sure of himself, if he's gonna look back in time and say "Damn those TAM fckers, they really screwed me over.", I think he should be looking at another path here.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I think I saw this in a movie once.

You tie her up and throw her in a pond.

If she sinks and dies, she's innocent.

If she floats, she's guilty, and you burn her at the stake.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I agree the whole coming to the house thing, a 400-pound stinker, doesn't sound too professional. For all you know, maybe he just has a fancy gadget that looks like a lie detector and actually doesn't do anything.

I agree there are a lot of red flags. She did now admit to the emotional affair. It is possible that she did not meet up with the guy and was just hiding her communications from you, maybe the communications were pretty bad, maybe pics.

Option 1: Re-do the poly until she fails.

Option 2: Tell her unless she admits to cheating, you'll divorce her. If she really didn't get physical with the guy, tell her she has to make something up.

Option 3: Chalk it all up to experience and move on as if you were reconciling with her. Do the His Needs Her Needs stuff. Drop the stinky counselor. Talk with your wife about what is acceptable with members of the opposite sex, talk about NEVER deleting anything because it breeds distrust, if she needs anything deleted, let you do it; and talk about how you both should have complete access to each other's communication devices and accounts. Talk about how you shouldn't hide anything from each other or lie about who you were talking to or where you've been. Whatever goes for her goes for you, too.

If it happens again, you will be better able to detect and you will know how to better deal with it.



Some options


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> I think I saw this in a movie once.
> 
> You tie her up and throw her in a pond.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Option 3 seems the best(maybe because of the ridiculous way Will_Kane put the other two options  ) But, you cannot change what she did. Even if she confesses, it will be of no use to you, now that your blind trust has already been broken. The best approach, if you select this option, would be to go about having full transparency both ways and communication about what is appropriate and what is inappropriate, boundaries etc.

But the option 1 is what I would choose to be honest. If you choose this option: Tell her that you have read about poly but never about the polygraphist coming to the home and requiring the spouse to step out of the room(we still haven't heard from the polygraph experts in TAM about whether or not these things are real stuff). You need to clear your head about it once and for all, and this guy didn't do it. But if you choose this road, don't back down. If you do, she will lose respect in you, regardless of whether or not she cheated... In the next poly, if it turns out she cheated, now you know. If it turns out she has not, don't go all apologetic. Act responsibly, and tell her thank you, this was what I needed to clear my head yadda yadda.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

This could be a good thing. No one should have total belief in another persons honesty. Thats a fantasy no one should rely on.

The most common advise here is to find out who a good polygrapher is from area police depts. Where did you get your recommendations from? I mean, who would know a good tester form another besides a police dept.

I think your wife , like most of us, did not even know what an emotional affair was. Now she seems to be a good wife. Keep tabs on her always, as she should be keeping tabs on you. You can lower the level of vigilance as time goes by but everyone should remain watchful for trouble, thats life. There is always someone that wants what you have and there are pros that can flip most people in a heart beat.

One predator that posted here said that married women were easier to pick up in bars/clubs than unmarried women. Thats the way he liked as the married ones were less demanding.

It looks like you can make this work if you both want it and you both do due diligence.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

i think at this point im going to let it go,what i think happened was she went crazy when facebook came along,she found all her old ex boyfriends and started chit-chatting with them,how far it went-ill probably never know.she swears up and down on our kids life ect that it never went physical,but i just dont buy it.at this point i really dont even care anymore.the thing that gets me is that it changed me as a person.i was always a trusting,easy going guy.in almost 10 years we have been together i never even looked at her phone,computer,or ever asked about her whereabouts,we had a trusting relationship and it was a beautiful thing,or so i thought.now im a jealous prick,constantly watching her every move,questioning everything,looking through her phone,computer,and basically being a detective,and thats just not me,its no way to live,i hate doing it,so for my own sanity im going to let it go,ill never totally trust her again and ill always keep a watchful eye,i truly think she is sorry and deep down knows she screwed up,she has really been trying hard to fix our marriage so i think we are going to try and reconcile.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

we all come here as idiots but few leave as such, however, there is always the exception.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> i think at this point im going to let it go,what i think happened was she went crazy when facebook came along,she found all her old ex boyfriends and started chit-chatting with them,how far it went-ill probably never know.*she swears up and down on our kids life ect that it never went physical*,but i just dont buy it.at this point i really dont even care anymore.the thing that gets me is that it changed me as a person.i was always a trusting,easy going guy.in almost 10 years we have been together i never even looked at her phone,computer,or ever asked about her whereabouts,we had a trusting relationship and it was a beautiful thing,or so i thought.now im a jealous prick,constantly watching her every move,questioning everything,looking through her phone,computer,and basically being a detective,and thats just not me,its no way to live,i hate doing it,so for my own sanity im going to let it go,ill never totally trust her again and *ill always keep a watchful eye*,i truly think she is sorry and deep down knows she screwed up,she has really been trying hard to fix our marriage so i think we are going to try and reconcile.


Even if you had hard evidence or a confession of her cheating, you probably would have reconciled. Take this as an opportunity to improve your marriage in a way that, if not for the suspected cheating, you may not have taken.

Please look at my earlier post about setting up the ground rules about what is and what is not acceptable behavior with the opposite sex and with access to each other's communications devices and with not deleting anything.

joseph, it's a running joke on this forum that when an (alleged) cheater swears on the lives of his/her children that they didn't cheat, it always turns out in the end that they did cheat. So much so that for some of us here, that alone seems like evidence of guilt.

Good luck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

there was a poster here who rugswept his wife's affair and finally decided to end it after 10 years of pain and misery. He wasted 10 years of his life living a loveless marriage unhappy because it was the less difficult option to choose at that point. Don't do the same mistake. The pain never really goes away.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> how she doesnt have sex with me


:slap:


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I don't know how anyone could R when the WS does not admit to the full affair. It's a huge crack in the foundation. What would you talk about in MC? I think you'd blow up at her one day from your pent up anger about her lying and cheating.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

joseph242 said:


> like i said since she got caught she has really been trying,she always said she hated sex and we would go months on end without it but since she got caught,shes like a pornstar in the bedroom.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

its a tough situation for sure.i guess the problem is that i dont have any concrete evidence.innocent until proven guilty right?she passed the"polygraph"test as shady as it seemed,but i did my research and the guy really checked out,has all the credentials,references,ect..nypolygraph.com if anyone wants to check it out.
my wife has really been trying and seems sincere,she is a great mother to our son and everything she has been doing lately has been all about our family.the last time the om texted her a few months back she showed me the text and then texted him back to not contact her again.she gets angry when i keep on her about this because in her mind she done everything i have asked and i wont let it go..
so where do i go from here? despite all this my gut is telling me somethings not right here.i dont want to get into whole spying thing,to me its mentally exhausting,time consuming,and not to mention very expensive.the affair took place a long time ago and everything has been deleted so im pretty much screwed in that respect.
i guess my only option is to put this behind me and move on at this point,i truly love my wife and family hopefully shes turned over a new leaf and is sincere about it,we have a new set of rules now no opposite sex friends,full transparency with phones,passwords,ect.its all about rebuilding trust thats going to be the hard part.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

As another poster, ihearlife, suggested, call some sex addiction/therapy therapsits. Explain your situation and see if they can recommend a good counselor that has experience with PTSD and reconcilliation after affairs.

I don't think your wifes affair was near as bad as most on here or she could not have passed a poly test. It looks like she may have been in a mild EA though. People don't realize what they are doing is so damaging to their spouse.

Have you read any of the recommended books, especially MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What questions did she have to answer?


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

chapparal said:


> What questions did she have to answer?


I don't know...that's the shady part.I was asked to leave the premises for the actual test.when I got back he said she passed with flying colors and did not cheat, but I didn't get a rundown of actual questions and answers.I guess there was no need for that because she was innocent right? Anyways we are reading the book "not just friends"and it is helping both of us and she now admits to having an emotional affair but says it never went physical ..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> i don't know...that's the shady part.i was asked to leave the premises for the actual test.when i got back he said she passed with flying colors and did not cheat, but i didn't get a rundown of actual questions and answers.


Dude!!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Call the guy and get the questions from him, this is more thsn fishy. Get in touch with whatever association is out there and see if this is kosher. No one here has said this is the way it works.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

If your going to be lazy and passive about it, then you will be forced to take whatever it is that fate has planned out for you.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> I don't know...that's the shady part.I was asked to leave the premises for the actual test.when I got back he said she passed with flying colors and did not cheat, but I didn't get a rundown of actual questions and answers.I guess there was no need for that because she was innocent right? Anyways we are reading the book "not just friends"and it is helping both of us and she now admits to having an emotional affair but says it never went physical ..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_












She's pulling your strings and you seem only too happy about it.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

ok,let me clear up one thing,as far as me being lazy or passive about this.i have spent countless hours,and tons of money on searching internet,phone records,facebook,texts,reverse phone number lookups,polygraph tests,and so on.i have lost 40 lbs from not eating or sleeping,i almost lost my job because of missed time and poor performance because all i do all day everyday is think about this and it makes it hard to concentrate on work,i am now on anti depressant meds and spent 3 days in the mental ward at my local hospital.
so whats next? another polygraph? another 500 bucks? another round of madness?do i really have enough evidence to justify a divorce,selling the house,breaking up my family,going through court,lawyers,more money,child support,weekend visits,watching another man raise my child?
i know we have all been betrayed and its natural to assume the worst,chances are that she did cheat and i know that,however an emotional affair doesnt always lead to a physical one..after d-day for me i had an emotional affair of sorts,i confided in a gorgeous blonde that i work with,i began telling her about my problems with my wife,i think she felt sorry for me.we began texting and calling,and even went out for lunch a couple of times.she also told me about her problems with her boyfriend.i however didnt hide this from my wife,i rubbed her face in it,i wanted to give her a taste of her own medicine,i was out for revenge,immature i know.anyways my point is that i didnt sleep with her and i could have,i have self control,so not all emotional affairs lead to physical affairs,and based on the evidence i have i cant 100 percent prove that she had sex with anyone.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Was not trying to troll you but I was being serious. You have to take matters into your own hands. 

If you know your wife cheated on you deep down, you can be the guy that eats it and moves on with his life. Or you can do something about it.

Why would you spend $500 for a poly but not put some cash for data recovery on her phone/computer or at the very least put some spyware on her now?

If you still don't have anything, what then? Force her hand. Let her know she f'ed up and your not going to take it. You know for a fact she lied to you and you know for a fact that this guy did something highly irregular. Being that your wife has a history of lieing to you, you have no other choice but to assume the worst.

If she doesn't respect you enough to come clean divorce and move on.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

yeah,i am definitely interested in data recovery but heres my problem,i dont know what to do.most of her dirtywork was done through facebook messaging and im sure i would find proof there but she deleted everything before i could read them all.i read some probably 10 percent,then she wiped everything clean before i could read the rest,i've been researching how to recover deleted fb messages and i guess theres no way,once theyre gone thats it.

i know she has been behaving herself since shes been exposed so theres no sense in spying on her now,shes been superwife lately.it kind of like after a drug dealer gets busted they usually wont continue to deal if they know there being watched.so shes on her best behavior and maybe she really wants to change.regardless i need to know the truth in order to reconcile,and i know shes hiding something.

as far as trying to recover deleted texts she gets a new phone every 2 years so i couldnt get texts from when the affair happened and she threw out her old phone,so im pretty much screwed,any suggestions??


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Take her computer to a professional. You could have some data recovered.

A question, give me an honest answer. Since she doesn't respect you, why stay with her? Let's say you stay married, are you OK being married to someone whom you'll never be able to trust or you always have to wonder if she went back to her old ways or not, where you'd have to snoop on her regularly to relieve yourself?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

There's a slight chance that you can recover some facebook chats. 

*Fchat 1.20*

_Fchat is a small and easy to use application that can search your hard drive for Facebook chat messages or silently captures Facebook chat as it occurs. An HTML report file is created containing the located/captured messages, sorting them by date and time. Unicode is supported (i.e. different languages) and converted to the original text._

And get some computer monitoring software like a keylogger. Webwatcher, SpyAgent, Spector Pro are some examples.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Joseph. Your position should be that you have put in enough work to get the truth. It is your wife that needs to step up and prove her faithfulness.

You should get what info you can get, but once you reach a point drop it. Let her prove her faithfulness to you.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

i think i may be in denial,i want to believe her so bad.we have a great life together,everything we could ever want,beautiful family,nice home,great jobs.i cannot fathom that the woman that i have spent the last 11 years with,the mother of our child,the woman i took to the alter and said our wedding vows with could do this.im not perfect but i treat her like gold,im the type of guy that brings home flowers for no reason,buys her nice gifts because i want to make her smile.

i want to believe that it was only an emotional affair,i believe we could work through an EA.if it turned physical,i couldn't reconcile because of risk of pregnancy,diseases,and its just plain nasty.i also had a paternity test done for our son and turns out he is mine,thank god.

her newest excuse for her behavior is that she was struggling with her weight at the time of her affair.my wife gained alot of weight at one point during our marriage.i always stood by her through this,totally supported her and said i know you will lose the weight.she has been dieting and excercising and has lost 80 lbs since.

she said she was so disgusted with herself during this time that she contacted her old boyfriends on facebook because the last time they saw her she was skinny,and that she would have been embarrased to see them much less take her clothes off.also she said this is the reason she cut me off from sex too.she also said she wanted them to see how great her life turned out even though they treated her badly and dumped her.

sounds good right? but why was she talking to the one guy for over a year? what were they talking about? why all the lies? why the fake phone contacts?why did she delete everything? is it possible that maybe she only had an EA or am i in denial??


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

You're in denial.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why isn't she answering these questions?


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

she has answered these questions but i guess im not satisfied,she seems to have an answer for everything.
for example;

if you didnt cheat then why did you feel the need to lie?
because i was afraid you would flip out.

why was your ex bf's phone number hidden under a fake girls name?
because i was confiding in him as a friend to discuss our marital problems and i knew you wouldnt understand.(for over a year i might add almost every day)she now admits it was an EA.took her about a year to admit it.

why did you totally wipe out and delete all your facebook messages?
because i was sick of you harrassing me.(i was able to read about 10 percent of her fb messages before she deleted them)read one where she told om that hes "so darn special"to her and how she doesnt have sex with me.
so yeah,she has an answer for everything..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, they make sense, in an entitled fog-riddled way.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

just wanted to say that i really enjoy tam and im glad i found it.i have learned so much and really wish i knew about it before.i know now what i did wrong and what to look for.

my biggest mistake is that i found out about om and immediately confronted her.she then had the opportunity to go into damage control and delete all the evidence.knowing what i know now i would have sat back and gathered more evidence before i confronted her.lesson learned i guess.

another thing,it seems that everyone including her and her family thinks im crazy,even my own mother is on her side.i told them about tam and they said you cant believe everything on the internet and that its probably fake,or im probably talking to a bunch of serial killers or something,so i asked them before you judge tam why dont you check it out for yourselves?Not one of them will..they say im beyond obsessed,and mentally ill,and need professional help,wow so i guess im the bad guy in all this huh?My wife has everybody snowed and has turned everyone against me to take the focus off of herself.

anyways,my plans for the near future are to take the computer to a professional and to see what they can retrieve,its probably a long shot at this point but worth a try,i cant wait for the day when the truth finally comes out and everyone will see that i was right the whole time.thanks for all the help and support and ill keep you guys updated.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> just wanted to say that i really enjoy tam and im glad i found it.i have learned so much and really wish i knew about it before.i know now what i did wrong and what to look for.
> 
> my biggest mistake is that i found out about om and immediately confronted her.she then had the opportunity to go into damage control and delete all the evidence.knowing what i know now i would have sat back and gathered more evidence before i confronted her.lesson learned i guess.
> 
> ...


I'm late to this party but hell 

Listen my friend 

1/ There's nothing crazy about you 

2/ In the history of mankind 'gut feeling' is about the most reliable and accurate feeling that one can rely on. It's been proven about a zillion times

3/ Your wife has been secretive evasive and lied to you 

When given the opportunity to clear it up she has come up as clear as mud - sure she has answers but do they satisfy anybody? No - would they satisfy her were it reversed ? No

You have to be clear about a number of things Joe. 
How does the future pan out if you d not get the full answers to satisfy you? 
Will you simply forget about it and move on? Extremely doubtful.

Here's the more pertinent question - will it be in the back of your mind that ultimately she will feel she got away with this? YES

What will that do for her and her boundaries? Nothing - there wont be a boundary so from her perspective this was a hammer that should have fallen before but lo and behold - it did'nt and she'll be likely to push that thin boundary even more. Paradoxically and this you will be surprised at - y_ou not nailing her for this will make her lose respect for you_ 

That's what my stxw did - She was surprised that I did 'nt nail her and took full advantage of that time and again.

We are all different but for me in my experience, with my wrong choices and not being able to know this place was here, I would absolutely come down like a ton of bricks - divorce papers the lot

Simplistic "I know something big happened here and if you're not going to volunteer the info then fk it we are done" " I do not intend being a detective for the remainder of our marriage spending thousands on finding out eventually you fked around" Talk now or this is the end"

Whilst she won't lose anything, especially the love of her life - YOU, she'll just happily truck on

If you make the first real serious moves to do this her response will tell you everything

_______________


Anyone who thinks your mad - sit them next to you by your pc and go through some stuff on here for an hour or two. In fact sit two or three of them down together as a group and do it

I guarantee you after 15 minutes they will not think you are mad at all


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Joseph. You shouldn't care what others think, for yourself.


It is still relevant though because your wife will never come out of the fog if everyone has her back. It's how women work.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

joseph why would you mention them about this website?

now they'll have their excuse ready everytime you catch her.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

keko said:


> joseph why would you mention them about this website?
> 
> now they'll have their excuse ready everytime you catch her.


I told her about tam because I basically started to call her out on her behavior, the rug sweeping, trickle truth, gaslighting,ect. She wanted to know
where I was coming up with"this crap"so I told her.she said because it's on the internet it must be fake, or a bunch of crazys, she told everybody and they are taking her side of course. I think they are upset because I'm becoming empowered and they don't like it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Did you mention "internet" or "talk about marriage?"

If you named the website, definitely message a moderator and ask them to move your thread to the private forum. Even if you didn't, it's not a bad idea if you think they are coming here.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Did you mention "internet" or "talk about marriage?"
> 
> If you named the website, definitely message a moderator and ask them to move your thread to the private forum. Even if you didn't, it's not a bad idea if you think they are coming here.


Didn't mention tam specificly just said it was a forum of people like me who have been in my shoes and are going through the same thing, a support group more or less. I really don't care either way if any of them do read my thread because I stand behind what I say on here 100%.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

i havent updated this in a while so i figured i would check in.my wife and i have been doing quite well lately.going to a new mc who doesn't seem like a complete moron.we are working on reconciling and she has been great.she has agreed to total transparency with everything,she even changed her cell phone number voluntarily i didn't ask,says she's sorry for her actions and admits she was sad and pathetic,and our sex life has never been better and we are closer than we have ever been in our marriage.

now for the bad part,i threatened to bring the computer to a professional to retrieve all the messages/emails that she deleted.wasnt really gonna do it because its very expensive and i dont want to spend the money right now but i told her i had an appointment to get it done so she better tell me if shes hiding anything because im gonna find out.so she tells me that she sent her phone number to ANOTHER ex on facebook well call him OM#3.claims that hes married with kids and she just wanted to "catch up"with him.heard that one before.

so she finally breaks down and said she has a problem with her body image and self esteem and she was contacting these men because she craved male attention that i wasnt giving her,she swears that it was in no way sexual and she would never meet up with any of these guys.sounds like typical cheater excuses right?

but in some way i kind of believe she may be telling the truth.when we got married she was 125 pounds.she had a problem with eating and gained alot of weight 250 at her heaviest.i will admit after she cut me off from sex i grew distant and wasnt very attentive.i never criticized her about her weight i was very supportive and told her i know you will lose the weight and she has(100 lbs)so far.she claims she hated sex not because of me but because she hated her body.she was so ashamed of her weight if we were out in public and she saw somebody she knew say at the grocery store for example she would try and hide from them.

she claims she was only talking to these guys because the last time she saw them she was skinny and pretty,and she would never meet up with any of them because she was so ashamed of her weight,and she was living a fantasy over the phone of being the skinny girl and it felt good to be wanted and to get male attention that i wasnt giving her at the time.i want to believe her so bad,i want to move on and be the happy little family again..i want to believe that it never went physical..so what do you guys think.should i believe her or do you think its a crock?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Since you asked, yes. I think it is a crock. Sounds like you are being trickled truthed to me.

Excuse the blunt response.

Good Luck
WD


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I have heard people do this a lot. Women gaining weight, and then losing it...you know how men are all about the size of their...private part? Women are the same way about their weight. It's that big of a deal.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Your still in denial.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

So you're up to OM #3 and you're still buying her story?

Good luck in denial land.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

Joseph:

If you choose to be a fool (out of the goodness of your heart / for old times sake / out of love / because she deserves a second chance), at least let her know that *you choose to be so.
*
Please don't let her think that she has fooled you. Because in that case, she is more likely to re-enact the scenario once the dust settles. With the same quirky rationale - for every 25 pounds lost / gained, an affair to re-validate femininity / regain self-esteem / recharge sex appeal?

Best of luck.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

OM1 OM2 OM3

You don't send a phone number to a married man to "catch up"

You can catch up through a nice email "Oh I've been doing this so X and X years yep things are great yadda yadda" So obviously they've been in conversion for a while, comfortable enough to then proceed to talking over the phone.

Only when you threatened to get the computer checked did more come out. How is that transparency? Seems to me it's opaque.

It's funny how body issues are to blame. Never I messed up or I did wrong. Blame culture is fine in specific instances, but when you're cheating with three men on your husband and not being truthful afterwards...that's not your body..that your mind.

I'm guessing OM3 is still not a deal breaker?


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

thanks for the input guys,yeah bob great point if we're supposed to be having a legit R,and part of that deal is 100% transparency then why am i still finding out more info and only after i threaten to check the computer? she will only tell me the bare minimum of what she thinks i know,or what she absolutely has to.truth is i can prove she was talking to at least 3 ex's but i know there were many more men she's not gonna tell me about.

my wife is one of those girls that has tons of guy friends,and remains friends with all her ex's,i'm sure we all know the type.when i was single and i would be dating if i encountered one of these girls i would run for the hills because these type of women are usually a disaster when it comes to a committed relationship.the problem is that i didn't know she was like that or else i would have never married her.it was only after the huge myspace/facebook social media boom that things went downhill.

she reached out to pretty much every guy she ever knew ex's,friends,guys she went to school with,sent them all messages including her phone number.she claims to be curious as to how everybody's life turned out.to me a simple email would have sufficed and the sending of the phone number was crossing the line for a married woman.after all SHE IS SENDING HER PHONE NUMBER TO MULTIPLE MEN ON THE INTERNET.

do i think she had an EA or two or three,absolutely...do i think she was sexting and having inappropriate conversations..oh yeah..do i think she met up with anybody for a PA...probably not and ill tell you why.

when this was going on she was extremely obese(250 lbs) the last time these guys saw her she was 120 lbs and super hot.now put yourself in her shoes do you think she would meet up with an ex being so overweight? this is the same girl that would hide from people in the supermarket or refused to get her picture taken in family portraits out of embarrassment.now put yourself in the ex's shoes,imagine going to meet up with your old gf and seeing her twice the size that she used to be,i mean who would want to sleep with an obese person?me personally i would probably run for the hills.i don't know maybe i'm wrong.

my wife has made great progress with her weight since then she is on a strict diet and goes to aerobics class 3x a week and has lost 100 lbs without surgery so far and looks great,she says the only reason she acted out in this way is because of her low self esteem and being over weight,also she claims to need constant attention from men due to her father abandoning her at an early age,i want to save my marriage more than anything,i love this woman,is it possible she was just living the fantasy of being the skinny pretty girl over the phone and computer and it wasn't a PA? because a PA is the deal breaker for me because of the risk of disease and/or pregnancy.thanks for the advise everybody..


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Is she going to _individual _counseling? Also I'd be worried if being that heavy was what you think kept her from pursuing a PA and now you're saying she's lost most of that weight while apparently still lying, hiding things from you and trickle truthing.

Maybe it's because I'm a glass half empty kind of guy but besides changing her phone number I'm not really seeing how this comes off as a legit R unless you left out some other details which makes you think she's TRULY changing as a person for the better besides weight loss and some guilt.

I'd take that computer in anyway if you can afford it. Especially if you're saying she's only admitting to what she thinks you can prove. She could have thrown you a bone just to keep you from looking for the steak under her bed. It's not like we haven't seen that before in this section.

Also I don't remember too much of your story but did you see her write non-consent letters to these men or have her do so??


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

yeah we have both been going to IC,and were going to a MC together as well.my counselor is basically telling me that i'll probably never know the truth,and that i need to either stay in the marriage or move on.but if i decide to stay i need to drop it for good for my own sanity.her counselor has helped her realize some of the reasons why she acted out this way and for her need for constant male attention,they talk about her body image issues and also her father abandonment issues.turns out she was also sexually molested as a child by her creepy uncle too,may explain some of our sexual problems too.

a few months ago she got a text from om#1 who was the main guy she was talking to.she immediately showed me the text and said"what do you want me to do?"it was basically a hey stranger haven't heard from you in a while type of thing.i mentioned the NC letter,she didn't do the letter but did sent a NC text right in front of me,i thought that was a positive step.she also blocked his number and deleted/blocked him on facebook.

she now acknowledges that she was in a deep fog and was mentally ill at the time.she seems to be really sorry and seems sincere.however i do believe the only reason if it didn't go physical was her weight,if she was skinny she would have been humping away like a rabbit.

as a man the problem i'm having is why she needs the constant male attention from other guys,i'm a big strong guy,very much the alfa type,i have a great physique,work out a lot,do typical guy things,so why am i not enough to fill her need for "testosterone"as she says? really crushing to my manhood to say the least.

i do believe this marriage can be saved,she apologizes every day for her actions and says she was pathetic,and says she loves me more than anything,were going to marriage counseling tonight,i think i'm going to discuss what i think a true R and what true transparency should be.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

About the alpha thing. It is more a mental/attitude thing than physical.

Are you following the MAP plan in MMSLP?


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

hey chapparal,i haven't had a chance to read the book yet but i went on the website and heard great things about it.i got the day off from work so ill definitely be ordering it.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> as a man the problem i'm having is why she needs the constant male attention from other guys,i'm a big strong guy,very much the alfa type,i have a great physique,work out a lot,do typical guy things,so *why am i not enough to fill her need for "testosterone"as she says?* really crushing to my manhood to say the least.


Nothing to do with you not being "enough". You can't fill a glass with a hole in the bottom. Ever. It doesn't matter how much do you try to fill it. It won't ever be enough. Nothing of this is talk about your manhood or whatever insecurity broight up in you. Nothing.
As they say you can't fix a bottomless pit of needyness.
It's her issue and her task to fix. She needs to watch very closely, identify, research what this hole looks like and fix it. And she has to learn to validate from within, don't "depend" on anyone, not even you. And she must commit to strong personal boundaires, for her own sake given she's vulnerable. She's her worse enemy.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Good, if you get mmslp and follow the MAP plan, it will at least take you to place that will let you decide what you want.

There is a warning that what works may not include your current wife.

One of the most important lessons learned here is how important it is to be willing to dump a bad wife and how that fact helps to make a wife a better mate and lover. When she can't take you for granted, she has to try harder.


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## joseph242 (Feb 4, 2013)

so we went to a new MC last night making this our 3rd counselor.I swear they are all the same,i give up.Every single one of them have the same exact script.

1.Rug sweep the affair don't talk about it,its in the past and she's not doing it anymore so it doesn't matter.I don't need to know details,and if she says she didn't physically cheat,then i should believe her.

2.He DISAGREES with the total transparency concept,thinks its a bad idea"why don't you just mount a camera on her head"he actually said that.

3.Thinks i'm crazy and obsessed,said i'm mentally ill and suggested that i be put on medication.

4.Explained a few concepts that i learned here such as trickle truth,affair fog,rug sweeping,and so on.He looked at me shaking his head with his smug grin,and said"thats absurd"

im just really disappointed,this guy came highly recommended,and actually has a PHD not just a regular social worker like the other two so i was hoping he wasn't a complete moron.They must all follow the same script.

maybe i got it all wrong,maybe i'm missing out on the fun,maybe i'll join the party,i should go out and get every girls phone number i can and screw around,after all i got no problem meeting women at all,i can get laid easy.Then when i get caught ill deny,deny,deny and delete,delete delete..then we can go to Mc and they will just say"Its in the past so it doesn't matter,he's not doing it now,so let it go"I guess if you cant beat em...join em..


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> so we went to a new MC last night making this our 3rd counselor.I swear they are all the same,i give up.Every single one of them have the same exact script.
> 
> 1.Rug sweep the affair don't talk about it,its in the past and she's not doing it anymore so it doesn't matter.I don't need to know details,and if she says she didn't physically cheat,then i should believe her.
> 
> ...


What a pompous idiot. I hope you walked on him.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Why are you wasting your time and money on MC while your wife hasn't even given you the full truth?

You're in false R.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

joseph242 said:


> so we went to a new MC last night making this our 3rd counselor.I swear they are all the same,i give up.Every single one of them have the same exact script.
> 
> 1.Rug sweep the affair don't talk about it,its in the past and she's not doing it anymore so it doesn't matter.I don't need to know details,and if she says she didn't physically cheat,then i should believe her.
> 
> ...






Joseph:

This MC’s counsel seems so lopsided, that I wager:

•	The MC himself is in an affair, and is offering your WW all the lopsided support that he would want his OW to have, when her BH finds out.

•	Or he has a daughter / sister who is cheating on her husband / SO, and is offering your WW the same kind of selfish support he would give his daughter / sister against her husband who would react similar to you, and make similar demands from the WW, while sweeping aside your trauma and concerns as the Betrayed Husband.

Just as many judges are dismissive of affairs as due cause for divorce, because they themselves are in affairs, or someone related to them (sister / daughter) is, and they would protect THEM in a similar manner.

Now what, you have to find an MC who has been a BS, so that your side is also taken into view?

I can feel your frustration.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

joseph242 said:


> so we went to a new MC last night making this our 3rd counselor.I swear they are all the same,i give up.Every single one of them have the same exact script.
> 
> 1.Rug sweep the affair don't talk about it,its in the past and she's not doing it anymore so it doesn't matter.I don't need to know details,and if she says she didn't physically cheat,then i should believe her.
> 
> ...


Sounds like he talked to your wife BEFORE you showed up. You need to be medicated? Wow, what an idiot.


Are these guys random, or are you picking them together? I'd find one by myself and then tell her we have a MC on this day be ready. I wouldn't giver her name or address.


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