# Need some guidance



## Matthias (Jul 16, 2014)

My wife and I will have been married for 3 years in Oct. We've recently separated. 6 weeks now. The initial fight that caused this was her picking a fight with me for the fourth time that day. I had been recently medicated to control my anxiety and anger. I have/had a horrible temper in the last 6 months since she's moved back in. So for the month I had been medicated. I was calm, happy. No fight. No arguements. We both play and online game and she made friends with someone. This guy has been the part of our marital problems. She gives him more attention than she will me. I've made my feelings known in every way possible. He was passing through town and wanted to stop in and meet us both. I was against it because of the past. Back to the day of the arguement. She had picked a fight with me that morning, when she got home and then again 2 hours later. I walked away and sat outside she locked me out of the house. I finally snapped. The limits of my medication had been pushed. Things we're said. Stuff broken and thrown around, unfortunately in front of the kids. She calls the cops and leaves. She calls the next day wanting her stuff and says she is done. I am still lacking the understanding as to why all of this has happened, but one day I will figure it out. Prior to me going and seeking therapy and medication. She started a fight with me and I calmly said I had had enough and wanted a divorce. She attempted suicide and I had to call the cops and her taken to the hospital. It was there that she was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. They told her she didn't need medication, or to be locked up. She needed therapy. Which she refused to go to. I realized at that point that maybe I needed to make some changes, hence why I got the meds ect. Prior to this incident we have been separated twice. Once due to her mother and the 2nd, I can't even remember at this point. She has a full time career and degree in the cancer field. I have a measly part time job. I've tried very hard since August to find better employment but with no luck. She has supported us, probably 65-35 in all aspects of the marriage. 

Since the most recent separation I have attempted suicide. For the first time in my life. I really didn't want to be alive anymore. Had it not been for someone in Florida, yes another state, I wouldn't be alive right now. He contacted my wife who gave him my address and the number to dispatch. She wouldn't even call herself, but whatever. I've been an emotional wreck. I don't eat, I barely sleep. I've lost probably 14-17lbs since the first of last month. She said in the beginning she wanted a divorce. She filed a dvp against me, lying to the judge about what really happened just so she could get her belongings. Which I never denied her to begin with. I tried to get one and they denied me. They denied me a mental hygeine warrant and a second DVP against her. The judge gave her a 90 day restraining order and I was in tears. I told him that all I wanted was counselling and to fix things. He told us to cool off. We've had some contact. I've given her birthday gifts that I had bought prior to all of this happening. At first I tried very hard to be cool, patient, give her space. The longest I went without trying to contact her was 8 days. Recently I've been more emotional than usual. I called sobbing and begging her to come back in a voicemail, sent a few texts on how I felt. She's just ignored me. Blocked me on Facebook, taken her rings off, changed to her maiden name. After the dvp hearing I immediately filed for divorce. The next day after talking to several people, went and withdrew. They told me that she hadn't been served. Well they served her anyway....

My mother told me maybe she came to a realization that she didn't want to be done with me when she got those papers, but I am not so sure. She hasn't filed since then. She hasn't cut my phone off. I have made a few emotional mistakes since all of this, but now she acts like she hates me completely. Doesn't respond to any phone call, or text. 


Everyone around me tells me to give up, but I am having a hard time coming to terms with it. Out of every major relationship I've been in. This one hurts me the most. I have been able to get up and walk away from being cheated on so many times, and ****ed up in the head. This I just can't do so easily. I truly love this woman, despite all we've been through. 


At this point I have no idea what to do, or what she really wants in the endgame. Mutual friends say she doesn't have that same look in her eye she had when they first met us. She's happier, she's not happy. I saw a picture of her on her social media from her birthday party on Saturday. Maybe it was the alcohol, but I haven't seen her smile like that in a long time. She's telling people she hates me and I'll get over her eventually. 

I've since managed to find a second job and maybe a new one to replace my first job of 2 1/2 years. I've been medicated and calm for months now. Anger wise. I've gone a few anger management classes. I've spoke with someone and got a number for a marriage counselor, if we manage to get through this. 

I just don't know what to do. Our biggest problem seems to be communication. Always has been. I really just don't understand how someone can say...oh yeah, I forgot to mention that part. One day I told her we needed to have a chat after work. She worried all day. She dropped the kids off, so they wouldn't see us fight if it came down to it. We sat in a room and calmly talked to each other for an hour. It was wonderful! No insults, no screaming, no cursing, no throwing things. In that moment, I thought we had the foothold to push our marriage back in the right direction. Things went well for the next 5 weeks until the incident. I felt like she wasn't getting her way with meeting this guy and she pushed and pushed until I snapped and then she had a reason to leave me, go back to her mothers(again) and then visit with this guy. I have never been worried about her cheating. That wasn't my issue. It was that this guy got more attention than me, and I was supposed to "deal with it" long enough to hang out for a bit. 

I have so many regrets about that night. I wish I had stayed on the porch and not came back in. I wish I had just gone in the room before that and kissed her on the cheek and told her I was sorry for not paying attention(even though I don't really feel it was my fault). 

Do I give her space? Do I file for divorce again? Do keep trying? If so, how do I go about it the right way? I am completely lost for once in my life. 

Anyway, I am sure there are holes in my story. Feel free to ask me ANYTHING. I am open and honest and if it will help me get through this. I will gladly talk about it. 

Please though. I ask one thing. I am very fragile right now and I don't need total bluntness. I need support. Which is why I am here.


Thank you all in advance.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Matthias said:


> Please though. I ask one thing. I am very fragile right now and I don't need total bluntness. I need support. Which is why I am here.


I'm sorry for all you are going through. Please take this in the spirit it is intended (it will sound blunt, but not meant to BE blunt)... you are both in need of SERIOUS psychological treatment. Likely you need INPATIENT treatment, closely monitored by a psych team. You were suicidal. She has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder (no small thing) and is quite possibly suicidal.

Is this what you want for your kids?! 

Solving your "marital" problems is the LEAST of your worries right now. You both need to INDIVIDUALLY get well so someone can be there to support your kids.

Deal with your own issues first. Get well. Then deal with your marriage.

Frankly, your marriage sounds toxic, but maybe it would improve if you were both psychologically healing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree with HAAC, you need to be focusing on yourself. 

Your wife is not in a good place either but there is nothing you can do right now to help her.

Double up on everything you are doing to get yourself in a good place. 

For now interact with her, if/when you do interact with her according to the 180 (see link below). The reason for the 180 is for you to get stronger.

Not once in your post did you talk about the affect all the emotional drama has on your children. They need a stable parent. Become that stable parent.

If your relationship has any chance at all, it will only be after you get more in control of yourself and are more healed.


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## Matthias (Jul 16, 2014)

I appriciate all the feedback. The 180 list is really awesome. Thanks you both.


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

There are multiple problems in this marriage that would cause me to say that counseling is necessary in order to move forward. You continuously use the phrase (picked a fight with me" as though you had no choice in those situations. Marriage requires two willing participants who work through their issues and stay committed to one another. You cannot make choices for your wife. There is nothing magical you can do to change the situation or change her heart. I highly recommend the book _Love Must Be Tough: New Hope for Marriages in Crisis_ by Dr. James Dobson though. It gives some practical steps on how to move forward that I believe could really help you. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## Matthias (Jul 16, 2014)

WolverineFan said:


> There are multiple problems in this marriage that would cause me to say that counseling is necessary in order to move forward. You continuously use the phrase (picked a fight with me" as though you had no choice in those situations. Marriage requires two willing participants who work through their issues and stay committed to one another. You cannot make choices for your wife. There is nothing magical you can do to change the situation or change her heart. I highly recommend the book _Love Must Be Tough: New Hope for Marriages in Crisis_ by Dr. James Dobson though. It gives some practical steps on how to move forward that I believe could really help you. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


I did use that phrase. She DID pick fights with me. However I have been medicated for sometime to help with my anxiety anger. On the night that the separation happened it was the 4th time she had picked at me before I gave in. Prior to that night, for the past month things were great. We gained a small foothold, or so I thought. She had even admitted to being happy again to someone we both know. The other three times I just shrugged it off and told her I loved her and have a nice day at work, ect. I ordered the book from Amazon. It'll be here on Saturday. It seems like a good read. 

As for me being suicidal, it was a moment of weakness which, after/during the attempt I realized that it was stupid. I haven't thought of it since and it's the first time I've ever had said thoughts. Now that's not an excuse and I have since been to therapy and AM classes. 

The only thing I can't figure out is why she doesn't file? Why she only seems to ignore me on social media, by that I mean we play an online game together, and until recently. She engaged me with quests, groups ect. Last weekend I had sent her a few texts and left a voicemail crying and sobbing. Now that I've seen that it's the worst thing you can do. I feel like complete ****. 

She doesn't wear her rings, she changed her last name and marital status on social media(seems pointless, but it still bothers me) tells people she hates me and "He'll get over me".

I am still unclear as to what she really wants. Is there a chance of reconcilliation? I have since got a 2nd job. I've applied for a 3rd to replace my 1st job, which is better. I've lost weight. I've done everything I can think of to make things better, not just for the marriage, but for myself as well. Being completely alone, no money to go out, no local friends to hang out with. I sit on the computer and play games in my free time. I just wish I knew what the situation was. 

My mother and I had a conversation for over an hour the other night and she, along with pretty much everyone else suggested that I just completely have no contact with her. Most are saying she is toxic and that I should just file for divorce and move on, because if she does this once, she'll do it again knowing she can get away with it. However, when I said I do. I meant it. 

I haven't had any contact with her in 10 days now. After she tried to call me, which I missed, she hasn't talked to me since. Someone told me she had been drinking that night. 2 days later she is telling people she hates me and that I am her ex-husband. 

Can someone tell me if I am crazy for continuing to wear my ring and be faithful? I feel like Frodo from LOTR. The weight of it is becoming unbearable. However, when I take it off. My finger begins to spasm and feels weird. It's like a part of me now. 


I am still open to all interpretations and suggestions.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You two BOTH need counseling to have two healthy individuals before you can try working on the marriage. If she's not willing to do that, this cycle won't be broken. And you need a lot more help than you can hope to get in an anonymous Internet forum where we're getting bits and pieces. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Your last post sheds more light on your situation, and now your relationship sounds even worse than your first post.

Listen to your mother -- it sounds like she is giving you good advice.

Time to pull the plug on this marriage.

"I do" only works if BOTH people are "doing." A one-sided vow is meaningless.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Matthias said:


> I did use that phrase. She DID pick fights with me.


I believe you, Matthias. BPDers are notorious for picking fights with a loved one. One reason is that they have such fragile egos that they quickly become engulfed -- during intimacy -- with strong feelings that the partner is controlling them and that they are losing their self identity. They therefore will create arguments -- over nothing at all -- to push the partner away so they can have breathing space. 

A second reason for creating frequent arguments is their strong desire to "validate" their false self image of always being "The Victim." Because a BPDer has a weak sense of who she is, she typically will maintain a death grip on that false image.

I nonetheless agree with Wolverine that the toxicity in your marriage is not something your W does to you. Rather, it is something you BOTH do to each other. Her role in the toxicity (i.e., her abusive behavior) is easy to see. Your role, however, is much harder to spot. In trying to protect her from the logical consequences of her own bad choices, you are enabling her to avoid confronting her own issues.


> We gained a small foothold, or so I thought.


With high functioning BPDers, it is common to see dramatic improvements in behavior every month or two. Like smokers who are always "quitting" every few weeks, BPDers are usually seen dramatically improving. With rare exception, what you're actually seeing is just another upswing on the endless roller coaster ride. The result is that a BPDer typically will flip -- in only ten seconds -- from perceiving you as "all good" to "all bad." And, five hours or five weeks later, she can flip back just as quickly. This black-white thinking is one of the hallmarks of BPDers.


> As for me being suicidal, it was a moment of weakness which, after/during the attempt I realized that it was stupid.


Of the 157 disorders listed in the AMA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. The result is that psychologists see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves. It is extremely disorienting and confusing to live with a BPDer for a year, much less for three years as you have done. Because you know that the BPDer must have real love for you, you mistakenly believe that -- if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong -- you can restore her to that wonderful woman you saw at the beginning. Trying to accomplish the impossible is a prescription for driving yourself crazy.


> I have since been to therapy and AM classes.


Smart decision.


> The only thing I can't figure out is why she doesn't file? ...I am still unclear as to what she really wants.


Because BPDers are emotionally unstable, they don't know what they really want much of the time. And, even when they do, that goal will be kicked aside as soon as she experiences a strong mood change. Being unable to regulate her emotions, she will experience feelings so intense that they will distort her perceptions of your true intentions and motivations. Hence, even if you do manage to "figure out" what she wants today, that goal likely will be ancient history in a few weeks.


> She filed a dvp against me, lying to the judge about what really happened.


Consider yourself lucky that you haven't been hauled off to jail yet -- the fate of many men married to a BPDer. At the end of my 15-year marriage, my BPDer exW had me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing" her so she could kick me out of my own home. While I was in jail for 3 days, she obtained a restraining order barring me from returning home for a year and a half (the time it takes to get a D in this state). Importantly, BPDers usually _believe_ the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths. And, a week later when they are saying the exact opposite, they will be firmly convinced it is true too. This conviction makes them very persuasive to the police when they show up.


> However, when I said I do. I meant it.


If your W is a BPDer, she has the emotional development of a four year old child. This is why you are seeing a grown woman who is unable to control her own feelings and who has a weak, fractured sense of who she is. This means your "marriage" is not a husband/wife relationship but, rather, a parent/child relationship. I therefore ask whether -- when you were saying "I do" -- you knew you were agreeing to a lifelong parent/child relationship instead of a true marriage between two mature adults?



> She is telling people she hates me and that I am her ex-husband.


As I said above, BPDers do black-white thinking with respect to people who are close to them. This is why they can flip in seconds between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (hating you). And this is why they can become extremely cruel and vindictive, i.e., a BPDer will perceive of you as Hitler and treat you accordingly.


> Can someone tell me if I am crazy for continuing to wear my ring and be faithful? I feel like Frodo from LOTR. The weight of it is becoming unbearable. However, when I take it off. My finger begins to spasm and feels weird.


Having your finger spasm and feeling weird is far preferable to ending up in jail and losing your rights to see your own children. If you're living with an untreated BPDer, you are playing with fire. The chance of her having the self awareness and ego strength necessary to do well in therapy is very low.


> I am still open to all interpretations and suggestions.


I suggest you read the book Wolverine recommended. I also suggest that, while you're waiting for the book, you take a look at my description of what it's like to live with a BPDer. My post about it is in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, Matthias.


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