# Frustrated and Angry



## English1979 (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi all. 
Me and my wife have been together for 11 years married for 5 we have 2 young children. There has always been a mismatch sexually between us. We decided to schedule sex to try and stop arguing about it. 
My problem is I feel is always try's to avoid it if I make any advances any other day she'll say it's not the day then the day comes and she'll stay up as late as possible and then say she's too tired rarely does she offer any compromise like let's leave it til Tom etc. I need advice on how to handle this, before I used to try not to react but now every time it happens it really gets to me and I know my reaction doesn't help. We never go that long without it but l know we could go weeks/months if I didn't initiate. She says she loves me and still fancies me but it's hard not to wonder.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

The most direct answer to your problem is to work on improving her self confidence and at the same time make her feel respected. Then once you find yourself in a good place with her you can ask her to begin doing the same for you.

Most couples get into frustrating situations where one person's sexuality will be modeled after the other, and made to feel inadequate. Anything you do to make your spouse feel inadequate will cause serious problems. Never force her to feel something because you think that is how she should feel. Let her feel what ever she wants, and if something feels wonderful to you, simply share that with her, but don't expect for her to feel the same. Eventually your attraction to her will begin to boost her self confidence and she will start to enjoy it instead of feeling threatened by it for making her feel inadequate. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## English1979 (Nov 19, 2015)

Thanks for the reply. 
Self confidence is not an issue for my wife and she knows the attraction is there from my side. I just find it hard to understand that all she needs to do is make more of an effort in the intermicy department and things would be perfect but it seems like she refuses to ever change. I'm worried I'm doing more harm keeping bringing it up because my patience has gone and every time she refuses or plainly isn't interested I find it harder and harder to just lie there and say nothing and forget about it. Can the attraction be there from her side if she seems not to want sex at all?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

English1979 said:


> ...Every time she refuses or plainly isn't interested I find it harder and harder to just lie there and say nothing and forget about it.
> 
> Can the attraction be there from her side if she seems not to want sex at all?


#1 You should be a to tell her you are aroused and if she is not receptive (tired, stress, other), then the two of you should work out a way for her to cool you off in a loving way as opposed to you feeling frustrated. This can be a simple as her giving you back rub and a moment to talk to one another.

#2 Odds are her sexuality works very differently than yours. While this sounds extremely counter intuitive, think about this for a while. Many women desire nothing more than to please their man. This primarily includes her feeling attractive and you responding and _you getting aroused when she wants you to. _So if you come to the bedroom already aroused and worked up, it is as if you have taken away her joy of getting you aroused from scratch, AND she may feel threatened that your arousal came from somewhere else (such as watching porn or thinking about someone else) since she had no part in it. 

...so a physical attraction is only a small part of the "context" that causes a woman to become aroused. 

Next time she tells you "not tonight" try this... ask her if you put too much pressure on her for sex and if it would help her if you try to back off and cool down. Then tell her how beautiful she is and because of that, it makes it very hard for you to cool down but you want nothing more than for her to always feel loved, and never pressured. Also make it a point to tell her that it is OK for her to say no anytime she wants if things do not feel right and that you will be respectful of that. Then you may want to tell her that sometimes her beauty and you daydreaming about her causes you to become a bit overwhelmed at times and what would be the best way for her to help you with that? 

...seriously no woman can resist a very respectful man telling her that her beauty overwhelms him, while asking for help! 

*DO NOT SUGGEST ANYTHING! Let her decide how to help you.....*

If she asks you what you want, you can suggest something tame such as calm back rub while you allow your erection to speak for himself. 

If you want to mess with her head, even take her side about how annoying you feel about your erection sometimes can be and playfully ask her not to dress so attractive all the time. Then tell her she can put some ice on it, but that your wiener is so crazy for her that he will probably like it!

>

Badsanta


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Amplexor said:


> Any one that knows my story will recall that my wife and I were in a very bad place a few years back, hit bottom, damn near divorced but journeyed to a very long but successful recovery. We are very strong as a couple today, committed and loving.
> 
> However our sexual drives are still a mismatch. We deal with the problem better than we used to but had made little progress. I understand my wife is in menopause which has lowered her previously high-drive. With menopause has come an increase in weight lowering her self esteem. And her job is very stressful leaving her exhausted at the end of the day. I am very empathetic to her feelings on all three but there are two people in the marriage.
> 
> A few months ago we had "that talk" again and again it took a familiar path. Stress, weight, drive... With empathy and respect I told her I understood all those reasons but that quite frankly she has done nothing to try and address them and that I didn't see this ever improving much over where it was today. I told we were going to try a different path this time. "For the next 60 days, I want you to submit yourself to me when I want sexual intimacy." My wife is extremely strong willed and independent of soul. Her icie blues flashed for a moment then she took her stare off of me, thought about it and responded, "That's not an unreasonable request." Initially she found it a bit awkward ("knowing she had to") but we settled into a very good pattern. My wife does enjoy sex when we get started so she was not being "dutiful" during it. Keep in mind, I am in my mid 50s so I'm not swinging wood five times a day any more. 2 or 3 times a week is more than sufficient for me. It put us in a good rhythm that has continued on passed the initial period. She has also begun to work out regularly and watching her diet more closely. When we went though our R one of the things we did was rebuild the foundation of the relationship and two areas we became much more successful at then we had been previously were communication and empathy. Both had a strong part in helping us improve this area of the marriage.


I resurface this post every once in a while. Some of the elders here are probably tired of seeing it but it's worth reviewing for some that are in the same boat I was several years ago. I posted this in July, 2012 and have never had to have that conversation with my wife again. I could count on one hand the number of times she has declined sex since.

What worked? By finally stating that an active sex life was a requirement in the marriage. That I would no longer attempt to barter, beg or bribe sex from her. I don't perform "house duties" in exchange for sex. I don't wine and dine her in hopes of sex. If I want it, I expect it and she submits, even if it's not on the top of her to do list at the time. Now before the women readers dismiss me as a controlling ass-hat and the men start a pep rally for being alpha or MMSLP, there are two other parts to the equation that are not well explained in the quote.

1. Her Needs. After our melt down, I came to understand my wife's love languages. There are intangible needs she wants fulfilled in order to feel loved in the relationship. She needs to be valued in the marriage, family finances, parenting, professional life... For her that means when she is griping about work, a coworker, one of the kids, I do something very simply. I listen to her. I support her and I don't try and "fix it". So unless she is completely out in left field, I simply give her my undivided attention and support. It is almost a nightly event for us when we get home from work. It is followed with a hug and a kiss and a now let's get on with our evening. It took me over twenty years in the marriage to really understand this. 

2. My needs. Living in a sexless life was probably the primary factor in our disconnect, falling out of love and downward spiral culminating in her LT EA. When we reconciled and we had this conversation, she finally got that sexual intimacy was key in my happiness in the marriage. Sex is a "need" not a wish. If I didn't get it, I wouldn't keel over or have my **** drop off. But it is a need for my happiness within the relationship. She finally got it and because she now understands it, a lack of sex not an issue for me or the marriage.

We have both stated our needs, understood them and honor them. A simple solution that can be very difficult to implement but we managed it.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Amplexor said:


> I resurface this post every once in a while. Some of the elders here are probably tired of seeing it but it's worth reviewing for some that are in the same boat I was several years ago. I posted this in July, 2012 and have never had to have that conversation with my wife again. I could count on one hand the number of times she has declined sex since.
> 
> What worked? By finally stating that an active sex life was a requirement in the marriage. That I would no longer attempt to barter, beg or bribe sex from her. I don't perform "house duties" in exchange for sex. I don't wine and dine her in hopes of sex. If I want it, I expect it and she submits, even if it's not on the top of her to do list at the time. Now before the women readers dismiss me as a controlling ass-hat and the men start a pep rally for being alpha or MMSLP, there are two other parts to the equation that are not well explained in the quote.
> 
> ...


NICE!
I think your post says it all, in a nut shell.

To further this, I would add that as husband and wife, sex is supposed to be fun and exciting. I believe it is important not to be stagnant with sex. Always try something new, always make yourself more attractive, physically and emotionally toward the other partner. Always try to be understanding when things don't always go as planned and never lose hope.
The grass you already have can and does get greener, even when it's on your side of the fence. You just have to take care of it.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

English1979 said:


> Hi all.
> Me and my wife have been together for 11 years married for 5 we have 2 young children.* There has always been a mismatch sexually between us. *


So this is nothing new, and this is how things have always been between you, including the years before you proposed and before children. Why are you expecting her to be different now? 


> *We never go that long without it *but l know we could go weeks/months if I didn't initiate.


Read up on *responsive desire*, which many women have. Women with responsive desire aren't thinking about sex and do not experience spontaneous desire much. They need to be turned on and warmed up first, BEFORE they become interested in sex. Practice your seduction skills to get her turned on rather than expecting her to be turned on just because you want it or just because it's penciled in for the day. Stop expecting her to initiate and stop expecting her to be ready when you are ready. 



> She says she loves me and still fancies me but it's hard not to wonder.


If there has always been a sexual mismatch between you, then why are you taking it personally now? She hasn't changed.



> Me and my wife have been together for 11 years married for 5 we have 2 young children.


Two young kids can take a lot energy out of a person, so be conscious of that. Plan some nights out where you arrange for a baby-sitter and can actually take the time to go on dates with your wife where you flirt and tease and don't talk about the kids. Don't discount how "touched out" she might feel from having 2 young kids hanging on her all day long needing things from her.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

norajane said:


> Two young kids can take a lot energy out of a person, so be conscious of that. Plan some nights out where you arrange for a baby-sitter and can actually take the time to go on dates with your wife where you flirt and tease and don't talk about the kids. Don't discount how "touched out" she might feel from having 2 young kids hanging on her all day long needing things from her.


Dates and money spent on baby sitting will make her feel pressured to perform, so be careful about that...

I'd advise you to bribe your kids to ONLY need you for the day, spoil them rotten, and make sure they brag about how wonderful you are to mommy.

..."somebody" will start feeling left out and turn to you for affection, and then you look at her and say you are tired and a bit "touched out" from the kids needing you so much. Ask her if she minds to reschedule for some intimacy later and tell her she is being a bit needy. 

...then wait for it!!!!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> Dates and money spent on baby sitting will make her feel pressured to perform, so be careful about that...


Only if he pressures her for sex after the date, or expects sex because they went on a date. This is a long term relationship maintenance thing, not a jump-start for sex.

If a couple never goes out and does anything fun together, the romance and intimacy in their marriage declines. If life is just work, clean, cook, take care of the kids and never spend couple time, date time together, sex is going to be last on the list.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
sometimes nothing you can do will help - some people just have a low interest in sex and nothing will change it.


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## English1979 (Nov 19, 2015)

She says she has no problem with her feelings towards me and for her everything is fine she's happy. She just hasn't got the energy in the week due to work and dealing with everything else. Let's see if she is more responsive at the weekends. I will try to take the knock backs less personal.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

English1979 said:


> I will try to take the knock backs less personal.


Keep in mind some rejections may be a shît test, and if you back off in a "playful" way she might just jump you! 

If you get your feelings all hurt and start to throw a temper tantrum, then she will not jump you.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

English1979 said:


> Can the attraction be there from her side if she seems not to want sex at all?



Simple answer....NO!


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

Divinely Favored said:


> English1979 said:
> 
> 
> > Can the attraction be there from her side if she seems not to want sex at all?
> ...


This answer might be a little too simple for a complicated situation. If she's working full time and caring for two small children, she could absolutely be attracted, but also exhausted.

OP, I like your idea of trying more on the weekends. But take a look at your family's weekend schedule and make sure there's some down time. If your family is anything like mine, weekends can get pretty busy, with fitting in all the stuff that doesn't get done during the week.

Make sure your wife gets some time for herself... Many moms of young children feel guilty for taking time out to relax, and their libido suffers for it. It might sound silly, but give her permission to do nothing sometimes, she might need the reminder. And the fact that you're looking out for her sanity will make her feel loved!


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## balor (Sep 12, 2010)

My wife would say "go [email protected] yourself" if I tried this tactic. Unequivocally that is what would happen. She would view it as a caveman mentality, but she does not have a submissive side at all, so no surprise to me. 


Amplexor wrote, "What worked? By finally stating that an active sex life was a requirement in the marriage. That I would no longer attempt to barter, beg or bribe sex from her. I don't perform "house duties" in exchange for sex. I don't wine and dine her in hopes of sex. If I want it, I expect it and she submits, even if it's not on the top of her to do list at the time". 





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

My take? Women who want to have sex with their husbands HAVE SEX WITH THEIR HUSBANDS.

All these excuses about a long week, too tired, kid care, housework, etc. are thrown out there to avoid sex you.

Actions speak louder than words. She can tell you all day long that everything is fine and she still "fancies" you, but her actions don't back that up at all.

IMHO, for whatever reason she's not attracted to you in that way right now. Can you get the spark back? Maybe, if it was truly ever there to begin with. Maybe not, if she just settled.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Happy is correct - if she wants sex with you she'll do so. Being tired, etc is just excuses. Mine always talks about how tired she is so I don't even bother her about sex. I take the kids a lot so she can go do things with friends so she can't complain she has them all the time. On weekends I usually take them out to play so she can go things or relax.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Happy is correct - if she wants sex with you she'll do so. Being tired, etc is just excuses. Mine always talks about how tired she is so I don't even bother her about sex. I take the kids a lot so she can go do things with friends so she can't complain she has them all the time. On weekends I usually take them out to play so she can go things or relax.


I'm just going to give up on the idea of having weekly sex. I'll probably have it once a month maybe less.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

English1979 said:


> Hi all.
> Me and my wife have been* together for 11 years* married for 5 we have 2 young children. There has always been a mismatch sexually between us. We decided to* schedule sex to try and stop arguing about it*.
> My problem is I feel is *always try's to avoid it if I make any advances any other day she'll say it's not the day then the day comes and she'll stay up as late as possible and then say she's too tired rarely does she offer any compromise* like let's leave it til Tom etc.
> 
> ....*I need advice on how to handle this*, before I used to try not to react but now every time it happens it really gets to me and I know my reaction doesn't help. *We never go that long without it but l know we could go weeks/months if I didn't initiate.* She says she loves me and still fancies me but it's hard not to wonder.



A few thoughts. Do you understand what performance anxiety is? Does she feel that when the day roles around she has to peform? That can kill libido in some people. Sex should ideally be about adult play with each other.

You have been with this woman for 11 years. I bet she can read your facial expressions, body language, tone of voice like a book. I will bet that she knows when you are angry with her, pissed at her and when you think she will once again disappoint you, to say nothing about when you are thinking here we go again the big rejection. Do you always approached these scheduled days of sex and visualized success and been greatful and loving in your facial expressions, tone of voice, body language? Or are you telling her she is a sexual failure and you think this is just a waste of time on your part? Think about how you might feel if you read such non-verbal message from your wife. Oh, that right those are messages you are feeling, even though she says she fancies you. It doesn't feel good does it. 

One of the things I needed to do in my sex starved marriage before it got better was to drop all my anger I had toward the woman who refused to ever have sex with me again. I felt trapped in a marriage to a frigid woman and a victim of her. It was very hard to learn I was part of the problem, totally drop my anger at her, apologize, give her unconditional love, make her feel loved and cherrished, transform myself into someone she could love. When that happened she started to come around. It was hard work.

You may think she has excuses, but you should really listen carefully to her to find out what she is telling you. You might be surprised that to her they are reasons, maybe not reasons you think are valid, but they are still reasons to her. Figure out what is really behind those reasons. 

Oh yes, and after having schedule sex, what part of "its not the day" don't you get? If you can bend the rules, as to when, why can't she? I understand you feel entitled or she missed the "last time" and you feel you are entitled to a make up, but she probably doesn't feel that way. A schedule is a schedule; live with it and don't pout, its not sexy.

May I suggest three books you might read that I found very helpful for me in my sex starved marriage: MW Davis the Sex Starved Marriage; Golver's No More Mr. Nice Guy; Chapman's the 5 Languages of Love. 

Goof luck to you.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

balor said:


> My wife would say "go [email protected] yourself" if I tried this tactic. Unequivocally that is what would happen. She would view it as a caveman mentality, but she does not have a submissive side at all, so no surprise to me.
> 
> 
> Amplexor wrote, "What worked? By finally stating that an active sex life was a requirement in the marriage. That I would no longer attempt to barter, beg or bribe sex from her. I don't perform "house duties" in exchange for sex. I don't wine and dine her in hopes of sex. If I want it, I expect it and she submits, even if it's not on the top of her to do list at the time".
> ...


Oh, I was fully aware my wife could have told me to ****-off. She's Irish! :smile2:

The point of the exercise was not to become a controlling knuckle dragger, but to set the expectations within the marriage so that we'd both be happier. For too long the sex life had become a bartering system. Do more house work in exchange for sex, watch her favorite "Chick Flick" in hopes of sex, get her drunk for sex.... In that scenario, who is the submissive one. Me, reduced to a performing ****ing puppy begging for a treat once in a while. It's a recipe for disaster and that's what we got. She lost respect for me and I became resentful and detached from her. That went on for years until we finally scuttled the marriage.

It's about meeting each others needs, it's expected. Physical and sexual intimacy with the woman I love is expected by me as part of a fulfilling relationship. Quality time and conversation is expected by her to be happy in the relationship. No one is being submissive in this model. We have many other expectations with each other besides these two. Expected to be home at a reasonable time, expected mutual respect, expected chores based on talents and desires, expected support when one of us is having a rough time. Many seem to understand these types expectations in the marriage until it comes to sex, then it seems to be acceptable to look at it as some kind of option. It's not, its the same as any other requirement by a partner. And that is where we found a common understanding. Stating and requiring my needs in the marriage did not cause an upheaval in the marriage, it improved it.


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