# Kids and porn



## calamityjim

My oldest is 11 and just started middle school. As such, he has some brand new alone time in the afternoons. Obviously he's going to be experiencing some self-discovery soon. Thing is, we're pretty open-minded parents. We realize that our children are going to do all the things that are forbidden. We plan on providing condoms and birth control when the time comes. We plan to preach responsibility rather than abstinence. Bottom line, I realize that any attempt to prevent his porn viewing will be met with some form of circumvention, possibly going so far as to source it from friends.

I didn't have internet access until my late teens. I saw some freaky stuff then, but I don't think it really had any effect on me. When I was 12/13, all I had access to was friends' dads' Playboy stashes, which as we all know is almost PG compared to the internet stuff.

I should also mention that we've not had "the talk," which I realize is overdue.

How do I keep my impressionable son away from internet donkey porn while realizing that he's not going to stop seeking porn in general? My greatest fear is that he will become one of the husbands I've read about in the SIM forum that doesn't enjoy sex with a living woman and will turn to his hand every time.

Thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks.


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## EleGirl

Look up porn addiction. Many young guys today have used porn for so long that when it comes time for a relationship with a real female they cannot perform. 

Sure you cannot always prevent him from getting porn from their friends. But you can limit the amount of time and access he has.

I had key loggers on all the computers when my kids were teens. They knew that the keyloggers were there. The rule was that if I caught them on porn sites or doing inappropriate things they lost internet privileges for some period of time.

My two sons were fine and only crossed the line once when they had some friends over.

It was my step daughter who was the problem. And it was not porn. It was meeting older men at the mall with her girlfriends. It was some pretty scary stuff.

My kids were not harmed by this. But who knows what would have happened to my step daughter and her friends had we not found out what they were up to.


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## Miss Taken

My ten year old came across porn on the Internet last year via YouTube. I was naive. I'm not computer illiterate by any means but I was naive that I had to worry about porn for my 9 year old. I also didn't realize that he'd find porn on YouTube of all places. When he found the YouTube videos, he clicked on the links and saw even more unfortunately. 

We now have parental control and porn-blocking software on his computer so he can't access any inappropriate content. We also have keyword blocking through our modem for his computer only so even if the web protection stuff isn't working, he can't access most of it because he can't search certain words. YouTube also has the option to turn off/on safety controls which makes the searches more appropriate. 

I am not against porn but I don't want to make it easy for my kids to view it either. Especially because the stuff that was on the net in the mid 90s and early 2000s is a different animal to what is on there now. Seeing a nudie magazine is one thing but today's Internet porn is much different from that as you know. 

After the porn incident, we talked to our son together. We told him it was normal to be curious about sex and women's bodies but it's not good to look at porn right now because of his age, it's for adults only and that it's not a representation of what sex is actually supposed to be like for two adults who care about each other. We took the computer away for two weeks and now check on him even more when he's on the computer. 

Honestly, I think it's okay for kids ten+ to see a little nudity/sex but NOT porn. Women/men in flyers/advertisements for underwear, National Geographic article about tribes people, a topless scene or a PG-13 love scene in a movie etc. are not a big deal. After the porn incident at our house, I eased up about him seeing those kinds of things (I used to get embarrassed and reach for the FF button on the remote). I think those kinds of things go a long way with satisfying normal curiosities about sex/the naked body without over-sexualizing kids by exposing them to porn.


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## calamityjim

Miss Taken said:


> We now have parental control and porn-blocking software on his computer so he can't access any inappropriate content.


I'm not calling you a liar, but that's just not true. Having worked in IT with various types of enterprise-grade filtering hardware/software for 12 years, I can say that nothing is perfect. Even saying it blocks 90% of stuff is overstating it.

I have two goals that are in competition. On the one hand, I want to restrict access to adult material, but on the other, I want him to have deep technical understanding of networking infrastructure. And that would allow him to get around anything.


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## Miss Taken

calamityjim said:


> I'm not calling you a liar, but that's just not true. Having worked in IT with various types of enterprise-grade filtering hardware/software for 12 years, I can say that nothing is perfect. Even saying it blocks 90% of stuff is overstating it.
> 
> I have two goals that are in competition. On the one hand, I want to restrict access to adult material, but on the other, I want him to have deep technical understanding of networking infrastructure. And that would allow him to get around anything.


Oh for sure, nothing is perfect. However, I'm pretty confident that my son is not that technically inclined. 

We have two installed, password protected parental control software programs on his computer, password protected extensions for chrome and firefox in addition to the Windows Parental controls and the keyword restrictions on the router for his MAC address. I have searched for every porn-related term and website I can think of on his computer since installing the programs and it blocked me from access to those. We also check his web-history and get emailed any time a blocked or restricted term is typed (he doesn't look at inappropriate content anymore). 

I'm sure that an IT professional like yourself could find a way to view porn on his computer but I'm pretty sure my ten year old is now pretty safe from coming across it again.


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## richardsharpe

Good afternoon all
this is a really difficult problem. I don't think children are harmed by pictures of naked people, but there is some pretty extreme stuff on the web (though it is fairly uncommon). You can block porn on your own computer, but they are very likely to be able to find something from friends.

Personally I think the best defense is to get there first. Have "that talk". Not just the mechanics of sex, but talk about human relations, intimacy. Give them access to good but detailed information about sex. I'd much rather a child read the modern equivalent of the (quite explicit) "joy of sex", than have them learn about sexuality from some of the porn they might find on the web. 

Talk about addition. I would make the parallel that porn is like alcohol. Too much and it can do real harm. Compare the image of the drunk on the streets, with the pervert who can no longer relate to women but watches extreme, disgusting stuff. 

Later in life it is fine for people's sexual interests to turn towards fetishes, or extreme behavior, but that shouldn't be the introduction.


I don't think you can prevent them from seeing porn. In fact the more you try, the more it becomes the "forbidden", something that is almost irresistible to most teenagers.


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## calamityjim

Miss Taken said:


> Oh for sure, nothing is perfect. However, I'm pretty confident that my son is not that technically inclined.
> 
> We have two installed, password protected parental control software programs on his computer, password protected extensions for chrome and firefox in addition to the Windows Parental controls and the keyword restrictions on the router for his MAC address. I have searched for every porn-related term and website I can think of on his computer since installing the programs and it blocked me from access to those. We also check his web-history and get emailed any time a blocked or restricted term is typed (he doesn't look at inappropriate content anymore).
> 
> I'm sure that an IT professional like yourself could find a way to view porn on his computer but I'm pretty sure my ten year old is now pretty safe from coming across it again.


Well... I wasn't just talking about technical circumvention. I can go create a website right now and fill it with all the filth you can imagine, send the link to your son, and bam, there it is. Filters rely on lists of known sites and keywords.

But it's a moot point.


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## calamityjim

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon all
> this is a really difficult problem. I don't think children are harmed by pictures of naked people, but there is some pretty extreme stuff on the web (though it is fairly uncommon). You can block porn on your own computer, but they are very likely to be able to find something from friends.
> 
> Personally I think the best defense is to get there first. Have "that talk". Not just the mechanics of sex, but talk about human relations, intimacy. Give them access to good but detailed information about sex. I'd much rather a child read the modern equivalent of the (quite explicit) "joy of sex", than have them learn about sexuality from some of the porn they might find on the web.
> 
> Talk about addition. I would make the parallel that porn is like alcohol. Too much and it can do real harm. Compare the image of the drunk on the streets, with the pervert who can no longer relate to women but watches extreme, disgusting stuff.
> 
> Later in life it is fine for people's sexual interests to turn towards fetishes, or extreme behavior, but that shouldn't be the introduction.
> 
> 
> I don't think you can prevent them from seeing porn. In fact the more you try, the more it becomes the "forbidden", something that is almost irresistible to most teenagers.


Right. I want to avoid putting porn on a pedestal of being something forbidden and making it more desirable. Also, heh, as a young teen, I stole a copy of Joy of Sex from one of my parents' friends' houses and, er, _looked at it_ many times.


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## Miss Taken

calamityjim said:


> Well... I wasn't just talking about technical circumvention. I can go create a website right now and fill it with all the filth you can imagine, send the link to your son, and bam, there it is. Filters rely on lists of known sites and keywords.
> 
> But it's a moot point.


Okay. I suppose that may be true. Like I said, no system is perfect. However, we monitor his email and this hypothetical situation is unlikely to happen but I'm not saying it's impossible despite our monitoring and strict spam filters.


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## sh987

EleGirl said:


> It was my step daughter who was the problem. And it was not porn. It was meeting older men at the mall with her girlfriends. It was some pretty scary stuff.


You have a gift for understatement. lol

That's scary stuff indeed. Like... "To Catch a Predator" scary.


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## DoF

The answer is good Router with Parental controls.


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## richardsharpe

Good afternoon DoF
I"m not so sure. Kids learn computer skills at an early age and may soon learn to bypass that. Otherwise they may get access through friends, cell phones, libraries, schools etc. 

Also nothing is more interesting than the forbidden. Difficult as it is, I think it is better to talk to them about the issues.

Its a lot like drugs and alcohol - you can't keep your kids from getting them if they really want to - I think your best approach is to make them not want to.



DoF said:


> The answer is good Router with Parental controls.


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## clipclop2

You can use group policies to lock down the computer if you want to, he would not be able to get around it.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening clipclop2
It becomes an arms race. He can get a linux boot image on a USB stick, unless you use secure boot. Even then secure boot allows some linux variants. You may be able to lock down the bios to prevent USB or DVD booting...... but I'm sure there are work-arounds for that too.

He can buy a crappy used laptop for almost nothing and route through his phone, or get a signal at starbucks. 

At 11 he won't know how to do these things, but he will learn. 



clipclop2 said:


> You can use group policies to lock down the computer if you want to, he would not be able to get around it.


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## reboot

We use OpenDNS Family Shield which are just DNS servers you program into your router. This forces every device using that router to use the OpenDNS name servers, which are preconfigured to filter out millions of domains associated with porn and other categories.

This is a strong blanket solution to prevent accidental porn or curious children you don't want seeing things that would otherwise never have occurred to them.

YouTube, on the other hand, is not filtered via this method. And sites like tumblr which have tons of porn pages on them are not always blocked.

You can customize the blocking by signing up for a free OpenDNS account and then use their hidden updater on your computer (so OpenDNS knows who you are) and that way you can customize the block list and even include/exclude domains.

For more robust blocking on PC we found the K9 web filter very good at filtering YouTube by blocking comments and adult content and forcing Google safe search, etc.


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## DoF

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon DoF
> I"m not so sure. Kids learn computer skills at an early age and may soon learn to bypass that. Otherwise they may get access through friends, cell phones, libraries, schools etc.
> 
> Also nothing is more interesting than the forbidden. Difficult as it is, I think it is better to talk to them about the issues.
> 
> Its a lot like drugs and alcohol - you can't keep your kids from getting them if they really want to - I think your best approach is to make them not want to.


There is no going around router unless they have admin password etc.

You can't expect perfection, like you said they will see it elsewhere.

You can ONLY worry about what's within your control. What's within your control is setting up healthy/good environment in your own home (something that MOST parents fail to do). 

And the best way to do it is by a router + parental controls. 

OS/Software based systems have flaws and are expensive. Much easier to get around than router.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening DoF

Maybe if you block all the ports that could be used for tunneling - but not many people know how to do that. (SSH, VPN, TOR, etc). Still its an arms race. (heck, what keeps them from physically replacing or bypassing the router when you are not home?) That still leaves the cell network and starbucks. 

I think you do need to do more that block your home. If they wind up sneaking around somewhere else to get porn that seems even worse to me than seeing it at home. 





DoF said:


> There is no going around router unless they have admin password etc.
> 
> You can't expect perfection, like you said they will see it elsewhere.
> 
> You can ONLY worry about what's within your control. What's within your control is setting up healthy/good environment in your own home (something that MOST parents fail to do).
> 
> And the best way to do it is by a router + parental controls.
> 
> OS/Software based systems have flaws and are expensive. Much easier to get around than router.


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## calamityjim

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening DoF
> 
> Maybe if you block all the ports that could be used for tunneling - but not many people know how to do that. (SSH, VPN, TOR, etc). Still its an arms race. (heck, what keeps them from physically replacing or bypassing the router when you are not home?) That still leaves the cell network and starbucks.
> 
> I think you do need to do more that block your home. If they wind up sneaking around somewhere else to get porn that seems even worse to me than seeing it at home.


Thank you, richardsharpe, for backing me up.

DoF, clipclop2, reboot, I appreciate the discussion, but these are not solutions. If you think that a router password or group policy (which you can't even effectively enforce without domain membership) are going to stop a horny teenager from getting at porn, you're mistaken. 

Bottom line, I need to have a discussion. I should also do some monitoring so I can discuss things after the fact if necessary. I have a Cisco ASA5505, I could set a monitor port and dump the output, but that seems like overkill.

I currently use OpenDNS's filter fwiw, but like you said, it's fairly ineffective. Sure, it'll block Playboy and other big sites, but not Youtube, Vimeo, Tumblr, etc.


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## richardsharpe

Good afternoon all
I'd also add that porn is not the only, or the most damaging material out there.


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## DoF

calamityjim said:


> Thank you, richardsharpe, for backing me up.
> 
> DoF, clipclop2, reboot, I appreciate the discussion, but these are not solutions. If you think that a router password or group policy (which you can't even effectively enforce without domain membership) are going to stop a horny teenager from getting at porn, you're mistaken.
> 
> Bottom line, I need to have a discussion. I should also do some monitoring so I can discuss things after the fact if necessary. I have a Cisco ASA5505, I could set a monitor port and dump the output, but that seems like overkill.
> 
> I currently use OpenDNS's filter fwiw, but like you said, it's fairly ineffective. Sure, it'll block Playboy and other big sites, but not Youtube, Vimeo, Tumblr, etc.


Plenty of routers now days have above sites blocked. Labeled "time wasters" and that's EXACTLY what they are too.

You guys are correct, they can get access from neighbor wireless and on the road so....perhaps device monitoring or security is in order.


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## tacoma

I monitor nothing.
I block nothing.

My own childhood is enough evidence for me to understand that monitoring and blocking is useless.

If they want it they will get it and that which is forbidden to the point of blocking is the most desirable.

Viewing pornography is harmless no matter how extreme it is.

You're better off empowering your kids by teaching them what porn is (fantasy) and making sure they understand it is nothing like reality while making them aware how it can affect their reality.


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## calamityjim

tacoma said:


> I monitor nothing.
> I block nothing.
> 
> My own childhood is enough evidence for me to understand that monitoring and blocking is useless.
> 
> If they want it they will get it and that which is forbidden to the point of blocking is the most desirable.
> 
> Viewing pornography is harmless no matter how extreme it is.
> 
> You're better off empowering your kids by teaching them what porn is (fantasy) and making sure they understand it is nothing like reality while making them aware how it can affect their reality.


How old/what genders are your kids?


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## tacoma

calamityjim said:


> How old/what genders are your kids?


My two boys are grown.

I have a 13 year old girl still at home.

If she wants to view porn I am unabke to stop her.

I can lock down the router, she'll go cellular or ride the neighbors wifi.

If I monitor her devices she'll go incognito or simply use a temp browser.

It's an excercise in defeat even trying.
Succeeds at nothing but breeding resentment, building walls between us, and ultimately harming our relationships.

Informing her of the realities of life and then letting her live it is the best I can do.


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## mablenc

"Viewing pornography is harmless no matter how extreme it is."

I disagree with this. Now days younger women think that all the crap they put is the norm.

As someone said earlier images are powerful, there is porn out there that has beastiality. 

While I get that if there's a will there's a way. I'm out to protect my child. When he's older we will
Have the talk, for now I don't want him finding these things my accident which is easy.

We have Parental controls and I don't think kids need to be online of you are not home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Taken

Just because kids will do or try to do xyz, whether it's porn, drinking, drugs or teen sex, doesn't mean you have to spoon feed those things to them yourself. I believe in having boundaries with my kids, I am not a "cool mom" and not afraid of being a little lame when it comes to certain rules in MY home. Like others have said, you can't control what they do outside of the home.

I also disagree with all porn not being harmful. There is gore porn, rape porn, child porn and as mentioned bestiality out there. I do think watching those kinds of things regularly, especially as a kid when you're still developing socially, emotionally, intellectually etc. Is harmful.

Where do all of you live that neighbours leave their wifi open?


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## tacoma

Miss Taken said:


> Just because kids will do or try to do xyz, whether it's porn, drinking, drugs or teen sex, doesn't mean you have to spoon feed those things to them yourself. I believe in having boundaries with my kids, I am not a "cool mom" and not afraid of being a little lame when it comes to certain rules in MY home. Like others have said, you can't control what they do outside of the home.
> 
> I also disagree with all porn not being harmful. There is gore porn, rape porn, child porn and as mentioned bestiality out there. I do think watching those kinds of things regularly, especially as a kid when you're still developing socially, emotionally, intellectually etc. Is harmful.
> 
> Where do all of you live that neighbours leave their wifi open?



It's only harmful if you don't "spoon feed" it to them.

If they have no clue what they just stumbled upon they are far more likely to misunderstand the content and context.

If they have some idea of what they're looking at they're more likely to think "oh, that's that messed up porn stuff dad was talking about."

No need for details, I simply teach my girl that porn is a parody of real sex.
I think the term I last used was "porn is to real sex what Hogwarts is to real school".

It's always better to give important knowledge than to purposely hide it from them


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## naminagupta

Sorry, but she's 13. She still needs to be told what's what.

Confiscate all phones with wifi she has, even a computer, or get somebody to control what she can download on her machine (which is not that difficult). She can have wifi access, but only you would know the password to change the settings.


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## naminagupta

tacoma said:


> I monitor nothing.
> I block nothing.
> 
> My own childhood is enough evidence for me to understand that monitoring and blocking is useless.
> 
> If they want it they will get it and that which is forbidden to the point of blocking is the most desirable.
> 
> Viewing pornography is harmless no matter how extreme it is.
> 
> You're better off empowering your kids by teaching them what porn is (fantasy) and making sure they understand it is nothing like reality while making them aware how it can affect their reality.


I wouldn't agree. Though it depends on how harm is defined.

Porn gives children and adults a false view of sex. Not every woman likes nor should like a facial, for instance. It may depict sex, but then it's for entertainment and not supposed to be a tutorial. And some people are more sensitive to even milder forms, so it's not and never is a black and white case. We're all different and perceive/respond to things uniquely.

That said, the OP is right to feel aggreived, but then her daughter is nearing/reaching puberty age, so it's understandable she is curious.


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## Unique Username

tacoma said:


> My two boys are grown.
> 
> I have a 13 year old girl still at home.
> 
> If she wants to view porn I am unabke to stop her.
> 
> I can lock down the router, she'll go cellular or ride the neighbors wifi.
> 
> If I monitor her devices she'll go incognito or simply use a temp browser.
> 
> It's an excercise in defeat even trying.
> Succeeds at nothing but breeding resentment, building walls between us, and ultimately harming our relationships.
> 
> Informing her of the realities of life and then letting her live it is the best I can do.


Should anything go really wrong - YOU will be held accountable
at the very least financially - since she is a minor

Let things go without monitoring and without your having boundaries and guidelines of behavior WITH RAMIFICATIONS of breaking said rules...then she is in line for many problems.....such as teen pregnancy, sexting which can lead to not only herself but those she shares the photos with being convicted of Federal Offenses (kiddie porn) resulting in being not only a felon but a sex offender felon...severely limiting future job potential (being the least of the issues)

Of Course you can remove ALL internet devices...phone, tablet, computer, laptop, tv, xbox, playstation
those are all privileges

what are privileges? rewards for good behavior...not a given, not an entitlement


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## naminagupta

DoF said:


> The answer is good Router with Parental controls.


I'd agree.

As well as confiscating all computers in her room.


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## tacoma

naminagupta said:


> I wouldn't agree. Though it depends on how harm is defined.
> 
> Porn gives children and adults a false view of sex. Not every woman likes nor should like a facial, for instance. It may depict sex, but then it's for entertainment and not supposed to be a tutorial. And some people are more sensitive to even milder forms, so it's not and never is a black and white case. We're all different and perceive/respond to things uniquely.
> 
> That said, the OP is right to feel aggreived, but then her daughter is nearing/reaching puberty age, so it's understandable she is curious.


You didn't read what I wrote.

They will see porn, you can't stop it.
Parents have been trying to stop it for centuries and kids still hide it under the mattress (hypothetically).

It's more effective to teach your child that porn is a false view of sex.
That way when they do see it (and they will) they will already know it's false and not to take it as reality.

That's the reason for my telling my girl that "porn is to sex what Hogwarts is to high school".

Now she "knows" the deal and there will be no confusion or false expectations/misunderstandings when she does see it.


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## larry.gray

naminagupta said:


> As well as confiscating all computers in her room.


Don't forget tablets and smart phones too.


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## tacoma

Unique Username said:


> Should anything go really wrong - YOU will be held accountable
> at the very least financially - since she is a minor


Indeed, and that's exactly why I've taken the route I have with her.
I've spent a lifetime watching parents fail again and again and again when they try to lock away the world from their precious little snowflakes sight.
It always fails.
Purposely withholding knowledge of the world from your child will leave them defenseless against the world when they do indeed encounter what has been hidden from them.
However, teaching them to know the difference between what's right and real and what's wrong and false empowers them to make the right decisions when faced with those situations.



> Let things go without monitoring and without your having boundaries and guidelines of behavior WITH RAMIFICATIONS of breaking said rules...then she is in line for many problems.....such as teen pregnancy, sexting which can lead to not only herself but those she shares the photos with being convicted of Federal Offenses (kiddie porn) resulting in being not only a felon but a sex offender felon...severely limiting future job potential (being the least of the issues)


Y'all should read before you reply
I specifically stated that I've spoken with and taught my child about boundaries and what's right and wrong.

The problems you speak if are far less likely to happen to my girl because I have hidden nothing of the real world from her.
I immerse her in it all, the good, the bad, and the very ugly.
This is the only way she'll truly learn how to cope with it.

Hiding the "bad" from them as OP and most in this thread suggest is exactly the mistake that leads to the problems you speak of.
The evidence for this fact is overwhelming.



> Of Course you can remove ALL internet devices...phone, tablet, computer, laptop, tv, xbox, playstation
> those are all privileges


That'll work, that's exactly the recipe for the disasters you speak of above.
Good luck with that.


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## tacoma

naminagupta said:


> Sorry, but she's 13. She still needs to be told what's what.
> 
> Confiscate all phones with wifi she has, even a computer, or get somebody to control what she can download on her machine (which is not that difficult). She can have wifi access, but only you would know the password to change the settings.


Why?

Why would I do this?

I mean unless of course I want to alienate her and breed resentment in our relationship why would I do this?

She's done nothing wrong and I believe she's done nothing wrong because of the way I've raised her.

She's a stellar kid in every imaginable way.
Why should I punish a child who has done nothing but given me every reason to take pride in her character?


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## Lon

*Re: Re: Kids and porn*



calamityjim said:


> Thank you, richardsharpe, for backing me up.
> 
> DoF, clipclop2, reboot, I appreciate the discussion, but these are not solutions. If you think that a router password or group policy (which you can't even effectively enforce without domain membership) are going to stop a horny teenager from getting at porn, you're mistaken.
> 
> Bottom line, I need to have a discussion. I should also do some monitoring so I can discuss things after the fact if necessary. I have a Cisco ASA5505, I could set a monitor port and dump the output, but that seems like overkill.
> 
> I currently use OpenDNS's filter fwiw, but like you said, it's fairly ineffective. Sure, it'll block Playboy and other big sites, but not Youtube, Vimeo, Tumblr, etc.


I think you are quite correct that a horny teenager will find a way to get to porn, if he is looking for it. But why not at least make it a bit of a challenge so that when you catch them there is a chance for a serious discussion about their actions.

I also think parental controls can help prevent younger children from accidentally stumbling upon something potentially very disturbing and graphic, something they are not ready to know about and something they did not go looking for.


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## richardsharpe

Good morning all
My concern is that the more effort you make to keep children from seeing porn, the more appealing it will be - the forbidden is irresistible to teenagers (and some adults).

I love the hogwarts analogy.


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