# Kids are great, work is great, and wife is a good friend, but not a lover...



## wantshelp

We dated for 2 years. During that time she couldn't keep her hands off me. She was affectionate and I felt wanted. I wanted her to be mine forever and remove any doubt that I was not fully committed to her. We got married and things immediately changed. She became anxious and less affectionate. We had been sexual 4-5 times a week. Within our first year of marriage that became 1 time a week. I was disappointed, but committed to finding a way to make her happy. I was supportive and loving and patient, never pressuring her, offering to do anything she liked. But, it just got worse. 

I got us to see a marriage counselor. We'd been married 2 years. I said, it feels like we are roommates and I even said that I felt she had broken her vow to me to love honor and cherish me. In the end, the counselor's recommendation was that my wife needed to try harder. Well, that didn't work. I stuck with it, while sex was less frequent every year. We had 2 kids. We'd wanted kids, and I thought it would make her feel more fulfilled and again demonstrate my commitment. Since then, we have sex less than 10 times a year and she is perfectly happy with that. I think that is the clinical level for a "sexless marriage". She rejects my advances 95% of the time. She doesn't even allow hugs or kisses, for fear, that may make me want to have sex, and lead to my disappointment because she would have to reject me. 

So, I'd had enough. I found the best sex/couples therapist in town and insisted that we go. We've been going for 18 months and little has changed. I now know that her mother pre-programmed her for failure by instilling her with the belief that all men are bad and are after only one thing - sex. Then, I had an accident and have a sexual dysfunction now. My wife was cold and didn't want to help me as I saw doctor after doctor. This injury became a catalyst, because, I'd always thought there was always more time to have fun in the bedroom. But now, I can't and I have a mountain of resentment toward her that is unshakable for all the lost opportunity over the years to just live life and have fun. I feel like she pulled a bait-and-switch on me. The only thing I wanted was her love and affection and I feel she gives me almost nothing. 

So after all that, I finally told her that I want a divorce. The "D" word has always been taboo. She was very angry. Saying she didn't understand my motivation, initially. I explained how hurtful her rejections have been and she admitted that she'd been unfair to me and apologized for neglecting me. From her perspective, I gave her everything she'd ever wanted. Love when she wants it (rarely), house, cars, kids, and work was optional because I made a lot of money. For her, life was perfection. But now, out of fear of losing it all (I believe), she says she wants to try, but I can't trust her anymore. When we had sex recently, it felt like there was no love, it was just to keep me from leaving. 

She is a great mother, and we have great kids and a nice house. We've got it made, but I can't do this anymore, because I didn't want any of that. I just wanted love. And that's the one thing I don't have. Should I tough it out for the kids (age 7,9) until they are 18 or divorce and live my life while I still can. We've been married 15 years now. 

Thanks for reading if you got this far! I'd love to hear some opinions from those that have stayed and those that have left. 

-Trapped


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## Married but Happy

I left. No matter what I tried (24 years of trying, BTW), nothing changed. She lost interest in sex as soon as we married. Finally, I was done trying. I decided that it was better for our child to see us both happy and having healthy relationships than continue the example of a loveless relationship. If the internet had existed sooner, I'd have found far more information and would have understood how it is nearly impossible to turn such situations around. A few do succeed, but there doesn't seem to be a common answer, and the spouse has to choose to change as well.

I was careful choosing my next relationship, and either I was smart, or got lucky! After 16 years, I couldn't be happier with the relationship and the sex. And it turned out that I became a good example for my son, who is in his own great relationship.


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## x598

its sad to me when one partner "keeps their end of the bargain" and gives the other what they need, want and desire in a relationship but it isn't reciprocated.

don't blame you for a moment for being skeptical about her suddenly understanding your needs aren't being met and turned over a new leaf. most likely she will put in a mild effort and let things slide right back to where they were.

you bare some blame in this for putting up with it for way too long.

I would simply tell your wife a healthy fulfilling sex life is a necessary part of a relationship you are not willing to live without. its your life and you only get one shot at this so you have to decide what you want and if she is capable of meeting your needs.


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## Evinrude58

I hate to say it, but this one has got to be all up to you.

But I would say that if sex is important, you're never going to get what you want with your wife.

I don't understand all this great sex until marriage stuff. That's foreign to me. I would be angry beyond reason if a woman did that to me--/ the acting like she liked sex when she didn't, just to get married.
That's wrong in so mAny levels.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wantshelp

x598 said:


> its sad to me when one partner "keeps their end of the bargain" and gives the other what they need, want and desire in a relationship but it isn't reciprocated.
> you bare some blame in this for putting up with it for way too long.


I do blame myself. I am a very patient person and I have so much invested in our life together. It is difficult to end my marriage for this, and yet I feel I have no choice. I want a happy and fulfilling life. The reality is that it is a near certainty to never happen in my current situation.


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## Lila

Is it correct to assume that the injury you experienced left you with some form of ed? Did I understand that correctly? If so, your wife's lack of interest in sex runs deeper than just the act, otherwise she'd be warmer towards you knowing that sex is not on the agenda. 

What does your wife tell the MC is her reason for avoiding intimacy with you?


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## Blonde

She didn't cause the accident and she can't fix the damage. Some of your anger may be misdirected at her when it comes to that.

How serious/permanent is the damage? My ex had an injury once- trauma to his groin- with a priapism. This was years ago in the early 90's when there weren't adds on TV saying how dangerous a 4 hour erection is so he didn't seek medical attention and was pretty darn flaccid for awhile. a Urologist told him it was hopeless unless he got an implant (where you pump it up). But it healed up after awhile on its own- never to its former ability, but functional.

I'm concerned that if you dump her, it may be hard to find someone who wants to live without sex. She has demonstrated that she can handle it. And she is "a good friend" and the mother of your children. "not a lover" sounds like a match under the circumstances.


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## Marduk

You married someone that didn't want to have sex with you because she fooled you. 

But now you can't have sex and are resentful about all the sex you could have had but now can't. 

I get this.

But I would encourage you to consider the notion that what she wants and what you can do are now aligned. 

Why blow up the marriage when perhaps for the first time it will no longer be an issue?

By the way - can you not have sex forever now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GuyInColorado

Yeah, how serious is your injury? You can't have sex anymore? 

Man, I feel for you brother. I've been in your shoes with a wife you can't love and only have resentment towards. I ended up leaving, even with young kids at 5 and 3. Being miserable and praying to God that he take you or your wife to spare you from the misery is no way to live! Plus, how is living in a loveless marriage showing your kids how a marriage is supposed to be?


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## wantshelp

Lila said:


> Is it correct to assume that the injury you experienced left you with some form of ed?


My apologies. It's difficult to talk about the dysfunction, but I have been too vague. I do NOT have ED. I have PDOD. I had an accident (not involving sex) that damaged the nerve in my penis and now I can feel very little there. This has made it very difficult to orgasm for me. But I can still perform normal sex and I still have my sex drive. On her end, nothing has changed. It's just not as satisfying for me. Unfortunately, masturbation, which had worked before injury, no longer works. Sex works about a third of the time in getting me to have an orgasm now. Making sex far MORE important to me than ever. I can't just go off now and take care of things, I actually need a partner now for that. The doctors have told me I need to experiment and find a new way to orgasm, but the only way that has worked has been during really passionate, loving experiences and during oral sex. She has been very resistant to help me explore and figure this out. She seems overwhelmed by the idea of helping me have an orgasm. 

I spent years refining how to give her an orgasm every time. But, she won't help me now. 

Thanks for your thoughts...


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## Married but Happy

marduk said:


> You married someone that didn't want to have sex with you because she fooled you.
> 
> But now you can't have sex and are resentful about all the sex you could have had but now can't.
> 
> I get this.
> 
> But I would encourage you to consider the notion that what she wants and what you can do are now aligned.
> 
> Why blow up the marriage when perhaps for the first time it will no longer be an issue?
> 
> By the way - can you not have sex forever now?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The resentment will still be there, I think. If he can't have sex now, there's an even greater sense of loss given all the sex he could have had if not for a cold, passionless wife. In his shoes, I'd resent her all the more for creating this situation, and I'd also resent myself for stupidly staying when I should have left long ago. The only relief from this is to leave, and make as good a life as I can without the constant reminder of time lost or wasted. She wins be default? That wouldn't be in my nature. There would be consequences.


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## wantshelp

marduk said:


> But now you can't have sex and are resentful about all the sex you could have had but now can't.
> 
> I get this.


Exactly!!!!




> But I would encourage you to consider the notion that what she wants and what you can do are now aligned.


I thought the same thing when it happened. I thought, hey, maybe now I will lose interest in sex and everything will work out. But the opposite is true. I can't orgasm through masturbation, only through loving, emotional sex. And my libido is the same as always. Unfortunately, this makes us less aligned than ever.


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## wantshelp

GuyInColorado said:


> Yeah, how serious is your injury? You can't have sex anymore?


The injury is likely permanent, but I can still have normal sex. The only problem is that it is VERY difficult for me to orgasm.


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## Marduk

Ok so you can still have sex. 

It just has to be good sex for it to work. 

And your wife isn't interested. 

If she has to choose between a divorce and a good sex life with you, what would she choose?

Have you asked her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wantshelp

Married but Happy said:


> In his shoes, I'd resent her all the more for creating this situation, and I'd also resent myself for stupidly staying when I should have left long ago. The only relief from this is to leave, and make as good a life as I can without the constant reminder of time lost or wasted.


Exactly! Ya'll totally get me. I really appreciate the validation. Life isn't always fair, but I want to make the most of it.


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## Lostinthought61

Seems to me, you have two choices you can stay for the sake of the kids and tell her as much and tell her when they turn 18 you are gone, that as a partner in life she has significantly and emotionally let you down.
or you can cut your loses and find someone in the future who will be more open to truly sharing a life with you....remember you never get these years back, and being a martyr for your kids does not get you closer to heaven.


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## wantshelp

marduk said:


> If she has to choose between a divorce and a good sex life with you, what would she choose?


To be quite honest, I don't trust her to answer that honestly. After 15 years of rejection, I think I know the answer to whether or not she wants to have sex. The answer is no. She even yelled at me once, I never want to have sex ever again. But, under threat of divorce, her answer is yes, I'll have sex with you. We are seeing a therapist and she has said as much. But, I don't believe it's what she really wants and I am convinced it would not be lasting. Also, I don't know that I still love her after her neglecting me for so long. And if I don't love her, that "good sex" is not gonna be there. The trust issue is the problem at this point. And, I don't trust her words and I won't spend the next 1-2 years to see if she is genuine. Besides, I'm sure in her mind, normal is once a week. We're just not right for each other anymore and she it's committed to helping me be happy. She says she has her own "hang-ups" about sex and can't help me.


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## Marduk

wantshelp said:


> To be quite honest, I don't trust her to answer that honestly. After 15 years of rejection, I think I know the answer to whether or not she wants to have sex. The answer is no. She even yelled at me once, I never want to have sex ever again. But, under threat of divorce, her answer is yes, I'll have sex with you. We are seeing a therapist and she has said as much. But, I don't believe it's what she really wants and I am convinced it would not be lasting. Also, I don't know that I still love her after her neglecting me for so long. And if I don't love her, that "good sex" is not gonna be there. The trust issue is the problem at this point. And, I don't trust her words and I won't spend the next 1-2 years to see if she is genuine. Besides, I'm sure in her mind, normal is once a week. We're just not right for each other anymore and she it's committed to helping me be happy. She says she has her own "hang-ups" about sex and can't help me.


It doesn't sound like she loves you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wantshelp

Xenote said:


> Seems to me, you have two choices you can stay for the sake of the kids and tell her as much and tell her when they turn 18 you are gone...remember you never get these years back, and being a martyr for your kids does not get you closer to heaven.


I thought the same. Stay for the kids until they are 18 or not? My thinking leans toward not staying, for 2 reasons. 
1. I don't want the kids to learn from a sexless, unhappy marriage, just like my wife did and screw them up. 
2. I only have one life to live. I am 40 and the clock is ticking. If I don't live life now, when will I? 

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I really appreciate it.


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## wantshelp

marduk said:


> It doesn't sound like she loves you.


She says she loves me, but she says she doesn't show it through affection. She doesn't like to be touched. She says her love for me is expressed in taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, and doing the shopping. None of which I care about...


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## Runs like Dog

I'm always baffled by what the denying partner - especially if that person is the wife, gets out of this kind of deal. We're beaten over the head nonstop that what women want above all is emotional engagement first second third through tenth and physical attraction is somewhere near the bottom of the list. Fair enough, but how clueless can anyone be that they don't get you will resent even hate them eventually. No one's that good an actor. No one can maintain that kind of emotional engagement while denied. No one. So what does the world even look like to that partner? Are they that dull that they can't pick up on the fact that you're not 100% for them emotionally anymore? Or is that just another thing they really don't care about, and if they don't then how were THEY able to fake it that long.


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## Marduk

wantshelp said:


> She says she loves me, but she says she doesn't show it through affection. She doesn't like to be touched. She says her love for me is expressed in taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, and doing the shopping. None of which I care about...


That's not love. 

She hasn't been in love with you for a long time. 

That should be the central discussion in therapy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld

wantshelp said:


> She says she loves me, but she says she doesn't show it through affection. She doesn't like to be touched. She says her love for me is expressed in taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, and doing the shopping. None of which I care about...


Maybe you two could read about love languages?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lila

So OP, what's keeping you from filing for divorce? You sound done with the relationship. You can be excellent parents to your children......living apart from each other.


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## wantshelp

> Maybe you two could read about love languages?


Thanks. Perhaps that works for some, but not for me. At the start of therapy we talked about love languages and I listened to Harville Hendrix's Getting the Love You Want on Audible (she didn't). Her love language is acts of service and mine was physical affection. I expressed her love language by cleaning the house, cleaning her car, doing dishes, fixing up the house, etc. But she did not reciprocate in my love language. I think our love languages have shown me that we are incompatible.


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## wantshelp

Lila said:


> So OP, what's keeping you from filing for divorce? You sound done with the relationship. You can be excellent parents to your children......living apart from each other.


I'm afraid of not finding someone that would accept me. I'll be blunt. With respect to orgasms for me... Masturbation has a 0% success rate for me. Vaginal Sex is about 30% successful. Blow jobs are 75% successful. Give or take. I have VERY little data to work with here. And I have not been creative enough to figure out anything else that might work. Now I would do any sex act to please my partner with whatever frequency she desires (up to 2x/day). But if I want someone to give me a blow job 4 or 5 times a week, I don't know if I could find someone that would do that. I've asked a girl I know and she insists that there are women that genuinely love giving head. I thought yeah right. But look, I am not saying I only wants blow jobs. I am saying I want to have fun and explore what works for me and I want someone that won't give up on me. Look different things work for different people. Some women dont orgasm easily vaginally. If my wife gets the best orgasm when I go down and suck on her clit, I'm happy to do it. I want a women that will reciprocate. That's all. Am I asking too much?


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## lifeistooshort

I'll be honest, I do think it's going to be a little challenging for you to find someone who'll be able to deal with your issues long term. Sounds like your really need oral to finish and it's going to be exhausting for most women to blow you 4-5 times per week. 

Have you explored why your wife is so turned off by the thought of sex with you? I'm of the opinion that most women have sex drives, she just isn't hot for you. When did your accident happen in relation to the dropping off of your sex life? Sorry if you addressed it and I missed it.

How long does it take you to finish with oral? I'm happy to give it but that much would just be exhausting for me.....I have a small mouth and jaw and I just can't do it for long periods of time.

I think you have to ask yourself if you don't find someone that you can make this work with will you still be glad you left your wife and family? That answer might be yes because being lonely in a marriage is the worst kind of loneliness.

I'm a little curious how BJ's have so much success and masturbation doesn't work at all. I thought with masturbation you had the most control over what you like? I probably just don't understand men this way.


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## Blonde

Sounds very difficult. Doctor's are wrong sometimes and there might be a bit of performance anxiety wrapped up in it (the 1/3 success rate). With time, your rate will improve- probably dramatically as you learn some strategies (IOW what is going on between your ears is a big obstacle at the moment).


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## wantshelp

Blonde said:


> Doctor's are wrong sometimes and there might be a bit of performance anxiety wrapped up in it (the 1/3 success rate). With time, your rate will improve- probably dramatically as you learn some strategies (IOW what is going on between your ears is a big obstacle at the moment).


I appreciate the feedback. First off, I have spared no expense to see the top doctors in the U.S. to understand the problem. I could go into excruciating detail about how unmyelinated nerve fibers do not heal well if at all. But rest assured, the doctors have it right and largely agree. 

With respect to performance anxiety, it really isn't. I've learned, and perhaps we all know that orgasms are way better when it's hot and you're totally into it. For me the threshold just to have an orgasm is now higher, so it takes an exceptionally pleasurable experience just for me to have any orgasm. Also, orgasm is triggered by a combination of the physical stimulus, the visual, and the excitement. So for me, i want someone that wants to do exciting and interesting things in bed because the stimulation has to rely less on the physical and more on the visual and mental stimulation. I hope that makes sense. And i realize i have a part in that, but with my current partner, it is a rare event. Very rare.


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## wantshelp

lifeistooshort said:


> I'll be honest, I do think it's going to be a little challenging for you to find someone who'll be able to deal with your issues long term. Sounds like your really need oral to finish and it's going to be exhausting for most women to blow you 4-5 times per week.
> 
> .


Oh my god, that is amazing feedback. I really needed a woman's perspective on this. I cannot thank you enough. 

First, her sex drive was this way for a decade prior to the injury, so it's not related. With respect to oral sex, it usually takes me 2-5 minutes, usually closer to 3 minutes, if there was other activity preceding the blow job. 

I have limited time for more of a response...


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## Blonde

How long since you quit the porn?

Porn alone can cause ED (apart from the other issue) because real women are no competition for porn. High Fructose Porn Syrup | Married Man Sex Life

When I said your performance will improve, I didn't mean the nerves or the feeling but your ability to mentally be "present" with your partner and "get there" most of the time rather than 1/3 of the time. 

"Getting there" is a mental hurdle now rather than strictly physica1 - developing the ability to really let go.


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## Happilymarried25

Yes, you should stay until your children are grown. You had those children knowing you weren't happy with your sex life and probably never would be happy. It's not their fault that you aren't happy with your sex life. Should they grow up in a broken home because of your decision? Besides even if you did divorce what makes you think you will find a women with the qualities your wife has and wants a lot of sex? Difficult to find especially as you get older. Plus in your case that women has to spend a lot of time trying to get you to have an orgasm. You may just end up alone with an angry ex wife and angry children because you left them.


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## FrazzledSadHusband

Did she have any bad past relationships, have her read this - Unbearable Lessons - The Forgiven Wife

General overall gate-keeping - New to this blog? Start here. - The Forgiven Wife

Bad upbringing in regards to sex - Official Site for Shannon Ethridge Ministries The Sexually Confident Wife - Official Site for Shannon Ethridge Ministries

If you are both christian - tell her you want to discuss this 

- But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Then if she doesn't want to talk about it, follow this verse 

- "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.…

There was a good video done by Mark Gungor regarding divorce because of lack of sex, can't seem to find link at the moment.

Before you push to hard, own your crap. Make yourself best person you can be, then move ahead.


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## wantshelp

Blonde said:


> How long since you quit the porn?
> 
> Porn alone can cause ED (apart from the other issue) because real women are no competition for porn.


As I said, I can only orgasm with a woman. I have tried porn and masturbation and it doesn't come close to a real woman for me. If porn was better than women, I don't think men would get married. Although, maybe you're suggesting that I expect my wife to do what I see in porn videos. There is truth to that. But honestly, doggie style would be boring to me if I'd seen porn or not. Besides, i dont think most people would consider blow jobs something only seen in porn.


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## wantshelp

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> If you are both christian - tell her you want to discuss this
> 
> - But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband.


 Believe me those who know me know that I already own my crap. My wife would be the first person to tell you that I am the best, most patient and kind husband imaginable. Problem is that I was too patient. I am a pushover. 

And I don't think showing her the bible and telling her that the bible says you have to have sex with me is gonna fly.


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## wantshelp

Happilymarried25 said:


> Yes, you should stay until your children are grown. You had those children knowing you weren't happy with your sex life and probably never would be happy. It's not their fault that you aren't happy with your sex life. Should they grow up in a broken home because of your decision? .


My children are growing up learning that neglecting daddy and not being affectionate is normal. And she is not affectionate with the kids too. Honestly, the kids would be better off when I am happily married to a loving person. The kids will not be my reason to stay. Thanks for all the discouraging comments. Everyone deserves to be happy and if my marriage fails it will be the fault of my wife and only my wife. I have done everything i could imagine to get her to participate in our marriage. I have given her everything for 15 years and it just wasn't good enough for her. She is the one that broke her marriage vow. Let me be clear, she rarely has sex with me at all. She abandoned me.


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## tech-novelist

wantshelp said:


> My children are growing up learning that neglecting daddy and not being affectionate is normal. And she is not affectionate with the kids too. Honestly, the kids would be better off when I am happily married to a loving person. The kids will not be my reason to stay. Thanks for all the discouraging comments. Everyone deserves to be happy and if my marriage fails it will be the fault of my wife and only my wife. I have done everything i could imagine to get her to participate in our marriage. I have given her everything for 15 years and it just wasn't good enough for her. She is the one that broke her marriage vow. Let me be clear, she rarely has sex with me at all. She abandoned me.


You should get a divorce. Divorce is hard on children, but seeing one parent abuse another (which is what she is doing to you) is hard on them too.


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## Yeswecan

wantshelp said:


> She says she loves me, but she says she doesn't show it through affection. She doesn't like to be touched. She says her love for me is expressed in taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, and doing the shopping. None of which I care about...


Yeah...I tried the same crap with my W. My love is working for home stability, bills paid and utilities on. That sh!t did not fly with my W. I was fortunate to be able to turn it around. 

Your W appears to have a deeper seated issue with sex that she has not told you about.


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## DanielleBennett

Did you tell her that you felt like your sexual encounters with her have not felt intimate? I can understand why your situation is tough...I mean yeah, you and your wife are in a good place but when there is no love in the relationship, it can really bring a person down. Some people stick it out until the kids are older, some don't. Personally, my parents made things so awkward for me and my siblings because we knew they were fighting all of the time and things just weren't the same. I remember when I didn't want to come home because I didn't want to deal with my parents' crap. I was really upset too when they split up but in the end it was better because I got to see my mom and dad happy apart which was better than being miserable together. It was a big adjustment but over time things got better and my parents co-parented and were civil and us kids grew up just fine. My point is, you do what you feel like is right. Make yourself a priority too.


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## wantshelp

DanielleBennett said:


> My point is, you do what you feel like is right. Make yourself a priority too.


Thanks so much for the supportive comment. And yes, I have told her that I felt our interactions felt like they were coming from a place of obligation rather than love or affection.


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## wantshelp

Yeswecan said:


> Your W appears to have a deeper seated issue with sex that she has not told you about.


Yeah, actually there is more to her background about BJs, but out of respect for her, I will not say anything other than that. The issue is in the open though and has been discussed in Therapy. 

There is no question that she has her issues and I, unfortunately have my own and they are colliding. She has issues with BJs and I have issues that seem to be ameliorated by BJs. It's tragic.


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## KJ_Simmons

wantshelp said:


> Problem is that I was too patient. I am a pushover.


Have you read MMSLP? This may be one of your issues. Not saying "manning up" and being more alpha would fix your issue, but it may help.

Also, kudos to you for considering D over just going out and cheating on her. That is rare. Through it all, remember you can always hold your head up high in that regard.


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## wantshelp

KJ_Simmons said:


> Have you read MMSLP?


No, but I'll check it out. But, I will say that I have and always will respect my wife's choice whether or not she wants to do something. I think it's the right thing to do. At some point though, if we don't want the same things, it's hard to make it work... 



> Also, kudos to you for considering D over just going out and cheating on her. That is rare. Through it all, remember you can always hold your head up high in that regard.


I REALLY appreciate that. Going from 250+ orgasms (sex + masturbation) a year to 5 a year certainly will make someone with a high sex drive think about cheating. But I know I would never forgive myself for cheating. I take it a day at a time. When I get to the point that I cannot wait for her anymore, that's when I will move forward with divorce.


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## RosaParks

So, I'm a little late to this post, and I greatly empathize with your situation. Married 30 + years and early 50's here. I felt like my hubby always had some hang ups about sex, but we were sexually compatible before marriage. As soon as we were married, he just went into "do what I please" overdrive with his golf, work, hunting, shooting, skiing, man cave, cars, sex drive, etc. He was rarely home and when he was he just wanted sex ~ no tenderness, no 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." He was not there for me emotionally, but like you, he had a good income, flexible job, & provided a nice home, though I worked full time also. I suspected porn, too, but this was before internet. So, I just didn't feel a lot like giving him unlimited sex from the start. He had an affair while I was pregnant, and I never thought we would make it together, but we have. Sex got a little better, but enter the internet. He got so hooked in porn & masturbation, that now he is the one with no desire for real sex. He says he has trouble getting started. It's rare for us. Now I have more unfulfilled sex drive than he does. I chalk it up as too late t get our sex drive in sync. 

I would just like cuddle, soft music, candles, caring and putting me first. Then, I'd gladly make him and our sex life a priority. I miss it, but more importantly I miss being truly cared for and loved in a way that makes me feel special. I'm willing to experiment ~ watch porn together, toys, trips, nude beach, etc. - and BJs are fine any time. I just don't like to taste a mouthful or swallow! (Is that workable or do you need BJ right til ejaculation?) In my opinion, 3 -4 minutes is very manageable as often as you want, if I don't swallow and you make me feel like the most special person in your life that you can't live without.

Good luck, just wanted to give another perspective.


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## Holland

OP I ended my sexless marriage about 6 years ago and the short version is that it was the best thing for everyone concerned. I am very happy and have re partnered with a compatible man, in and outside of the bedroom. My ex was relieved that I took control and ended our misery as he was too gutless to do it.
I did not want my kids to see our passionless marriage as normal. My ex's parents live the "till death do us part" life, they both died after wasting many years in their loveless marriage and this was the example my ex had lived with so he perpetuated this dysfunctional dynamic, I had to save my kids from this, I want them to go on in life and know that they have the right to a meaningful, happy, healthy, sexually satisfying life.

Divorce is one of the hardest things people can do but it is a valid option, life is too short to be miserable.

As for the sex issues you have I am sorry to hear you have had this accident. It is possible to find a wonderful and compatible woman, there will be plenty that are also from sexless/passionless marriages and looking for compatibility. Be honest, upfront and open about what you are looking for in a partner.

If it helps one thing my partner loves is an oral PIV combo, I ride him then give him oral, ride him, oral and repeat until he can't contain himself any longer. Sorry to be so graphic but this combo might be useful in your situation.


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## wantshelp

Holland said:


> OP I ended my sexless marriage about 6 years ago and the short version is that it was the best thing for everyone concerned....
> 
> If it helps one thing my partner loves is an oral PIV combo, I ride him then give him oral, ride him, oral and repeat until he can't contain himself any longer. Sorry to be so graphic but this combo might be useful in your situation.


Thanks for the graphic details. I would love it if my wife would do that for me. Your partner is very lucky and it's encouraging to hear about these happy endings. Thanks.


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## Hicks

wantshelp said:


> She says she loves me, but she says she doesn't show it through affection. She doesn't like to be touched. She says her love for me is expressed in taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, and doing the shopping. None of which I care about...


This is super important.

You wife's LL is Acts of Service so thats what she does for you.

So your wife does love you, she just does a bad job of making you feel loved. So it's wrong for you to claim and believe your wife does not love you.

You need to spend some time on this exact point. Not a one and done conversation. Basically you say things such as:

Wife, if I feel loved through sex, and as a result only tried to show you love through trying to have sex with you, instead of meeting your needs by cleaning, working, providing... How would you feel?

Wife, this is how I wired. You can spend all the energy you want cleaning but it will not make me feel loved. How about you spend less energy on that and more energy on what's important to me?

The basic themes are this is how you feel loved, you are wired this way, it's normal and natural, and if you met her needs the way she meets your needs that she would not appreicate it.


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## MachoMcCoy

marduk said:


> She hasn't been in love with you for a long time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


One guy gets it. Said it twice, and was ignored twice.

OP. If she loved you she would work with you. My wife will "give" me sex any time I want it, but I don't ask any more. It feels a little too much like rape, or sex slavery.

My wife hasn't loved me for a long, long time.

But I WILL give the gang credit. We're on the 4th page and NOT ONE poster yet has screamed "SHE'S CHEATING!!! VARS! KEYLOGGERS! PI!!!"


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## wantshelp

Hicks said:


> This is super important.
> You wife's LL is Acts of Service so thats what she does for you.


I get that. 



> So your wife does love you, she just does a bad job of making you feel loved. So it's wrong for you to claim and believe your wife does not love you.


I agree that she thinks she loves me and I don't recognize it because it's not expressed physically. She did a love language switcheroo on me after I married her. Switching from Physical affection to acts of service. 



> You need to spend some time on this exact point. Not a one and done conversation. Basically you say things such as: ...


We've been in Imago therapy for 18 months! You don't think that is enough time to see improvement? Believe me, we have talked about love languages ad nauseam. I bent over backwards to express my love in her love language, but she would not budge on expressing her love in mine. In fact, it felt more like she became LESS affectionate when I did acts of service. I believe that she saw the acts of service as just a new way to get her into the sack, so she resisted. Our therapist and myself were very clear about what my love language was and she understood. 

In fact, I believe that her inability to reciprocate with my love language is more of an indicator that she does not truly love me. At least by my definition of love. And that's the rub. If we have different definitions of love, from a practical perspective, we do not love each other.


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## wantshelp

MachoMcCoy said:


> One guy gets it. Said it twice, and was ignored twice.


I assure you, I did not ignore those comments. 



> OP. If she loved you she would work with you.


I agree.


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## Hicks

wantshelp said:


> We've been in Imago therapy for 18 months! You don't think that is enough time to see improvement? Believe me, we have talked about love languages ad nauseam. I bent over backwards to express my love in her love language, but she would not budge on expressing her love in mine. In fact, it felt more like she became LESS affectionate when I did acts of service. I believe that she saw the acts of service as just a new way to get her into the sack, so she resisted. Our therapist and myself were very clear about what my love language was and she understood.
> 
> In fact, I believe that her inability to reciprocate with my love language is more of an indicator that she does not truly love me. At least by my definition of love. And that's the rub. If we have different definitions of love, from a practical perspective, we do not love each other.



If you've been trying for 18 months and you have determined that 
a) you are meeting her emotional needs / she is happy with you
b) she fully understands that sexual fulfillment is an emotional need of yours (same as her needs of X,Y.Z acts of service)
c) she knows all this but still refuses to reciprocate

Then I agree with you. She does not love you at least in the sense that love is a verb.


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## wantshelp

Hicks said:


> If you've been trying for 18 months and you have determined that
> a) you are meeting her emotional needs / she is happy with you
> b) she fully understands that sexual fulfillment is an emotional need of yours (same as her needs of X,Y.Z acts of service)
> c) she knows all this but still refuses to reciprocate
> 
> Then I agree with you. She does not love you at least in the sense that love is a verb.


Interesting...

a) From her perspective, I am the perfect husband. She is definitely happy with me. She says that I am the only man she could ever love. 
b) She does understand that sexual fulfillment has always been a priority for me. 
c) You're on to something here... Actually, she does reciprocate. She is always obsessed with treating everyone fairly (except me). The kids always have to have an equal number of presents at the holidays. She is the one that sends a thoughtful thank you card to people. She is the one that is tuned in to how everyone feels and comforts them. She always tries to be balanced and fair. But with me, it's like she feels she doesn't have to for some reason. I think she would reciprocate, even in the bedroom, but I think since she doesn't want to have sex, she tries to avoid it so that she won't feel obligated to reciprocate what I am willing to do for her. So, it's not that she won't reciprocate, she avoids becoming indebted so that she won't have to reciprocate. Does that make any sense? It does in my head...

Thanks for you thoughts.


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## Hicks

Eventually you have to bring things to a point where SHE chooses to be sexual inside her marriage to you, or she loses all the benefits that come with a marriage to you. Interpret that how you will.

You see, before marriage she new that being sexual was important to attain marriage. After marriage, being sexual was not required to keep marriage and associated benefits.


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## wantshelp

Hicks said:


> Eventually you have to bring things to a point where SHE chooses to be sexual inside her marriage to you, or she loses all the benefits that come with a marriage to you.


I feel like we have passed her opportunity to choose to be sexual. Now, I am in a mode where I intentionally interact very little with her, but it's less to show her the benefits lost, but rather to prepare myself for the separation. 



Hicks said:


> You see, before marriage she knew that being sexual was important to attain marriage. After marriage, being sexual was not required to keep marriage and associated benefits.


I see what you're saying. I believe being sexual always was required. My threshold was just high. I have reached that threshold now and the consequence is materializing now. She just mistook my patience for acceptance. Believe me, I NEVER accepted it and she was made aware of it, she just chose to ignore my obvious disappointment.


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## Hicks

This is where you are starting to contradict yourself.

If she was happy, and you have been the perfect husband, why would she become sexual? That would not make any sense. She would logically keep things the same as what is making her happy.


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## wantshelp

Hicks said:


> This is where you are starting to contradict yourself.


I'm not sure what is contradictory, but I am happy to clarify any aspect to help folks understand. 



> If she was happy, and you have been the perfect husband, why would she become sexual? That would not make any sense. She would logically keep things the same as what is making her happy.


Before I said I wanted a divorce, she was happy and didn't realize how resentful I was becoming from the rejections. Yes, apparently my expressions of disappointment were never enough to concern her much. She worked when she wanted, she bought what she wanted and she did what she wanted, all enabled by my support of her. So yes, no reason for her to change. Since I said I am considering divorce (a month ago), it was a shock for her (no longer happy) and she has since decided that now she will try to change. 

But, the million dollar question is, do I trust her to truly change her fundamental behavior toward me under threat of divorce?


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## Hicks

Women are taught that sex is bad. Thus they sometimes need to rationalize letting their sexuality be unleashed. One way this happens is when they realize that their husband will not put up with non sexual marriage. In other words you went from being nice and swallowing your frustration to voicing it.


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## lifeistooshort

Have you asked your wife how she would feel if you went outside the marriage for sex? 

I'm curious what her response was because the response to that question can be quite telling regarding how someone feels about you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wantshelp

lifeistooshort said:


> Have you asked your wife how she would feel if you went outside the marriage for sex?
> 
> I'm curious what her response was because the response to that question can be quite telling regarding how someone feels about you.


She has a very conservative/traditional view on marriage and has a very negative view on cheaters. Honestly, I have a similar view. But it did come up in a way. Our therapist asked if we would consider a sex surrogate. I think she was suggesting that to help me figure out my sexual dysfunction. She was concerned that my pursuit to figure out how to have an orgasm in ways other than oral sex, was wrecking sex for my wife. She said it is similar to how couples with fertility problems have to have sex all planned out and it takes the romance out of it. I think she was well aware that that was a risky suggestion. Well, whatever the reason, my wife put her head down and said you guys can talk about it, and she covered her ears and started sobbing. That was the end of that discussion. Later, I privately told our therapist that I understood the intent, but that was probably too big of a leap for us.


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## farsidejunky

Mem has a saying, something similar to this:

"Wife, it is unreasonable to expect me to be both monogamous and celibate."

It really clarifies the problem.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Tron

farsidejunky said:


> Mem has a saying, something similar to this:
> 
> "Wife, it is unreasonable to expect me to be both monogamous and celibate."
> 
> It really clarifies the problem.


This!

OP, what would her reaction be to a trial separation?


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## wantshelp

Tron said:


> OP, what would her reaction be to a trial separation?


She would not want that. Certainly, she wants me to stay. But, honestly, I am not sure what the benefit of a separation is over divorce. I really need to research my options more. 

I am just getting tired of thinking of all of this. We had a counseling session today and it went badly. The therapist wanted to avoid talking to me because we already know what my position is. Instead we focused on the EMDR progress with my wife. That actually does seem to be working. I wish I could encourage her, but I can't bring myself to do it. Then, the therapist tried to tell me that you can't have everything and you can't expect your wife to meet your unfulfilled needs from your childhood. She said I have to let that go. Unfortunately, it just made me mad. It felt like she was trying to temper my expectations of how much change the EMDR would evoke, but I wasn't having it. She had poked the bear! I said it like this - I have given in to her LD (Low Desire) for 15 years. The only acceptable compromise at this point is for her to do the same for my HD (High Desire) for 15 years. I also said that I didn't want her to touch me anymore. That made her cry and the therapist asked if she could do that for the time being. And then I said, I don't know how we can fix this because I am too resentful and angry to engage anymore... Our therapist suggested that we should come separately for a while... Honestly, I don't know why I keep going... actually, I do. I keep hoping that the therapist will miraculously fix everything... All I want is the woman I married. I just can't seem to let her go. I'm gonna go off and cry now...

And by the way, our therapist is great, it's just that our situation likely has no good solution. Although, I do have one regret. I felt like we lingered too long on the cause of my wife's hangups and on my injury. I really needed her to push my wife to change before I pulled out the divorce card. But hey, I can't blame her. I wasn't able to do get her to change either.


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## wantshelp

Tron said:


> OP, what would her reaction be to a trial separation?


Oops, I read "trial" separation and thought "legal" separation in my last response. Although, she wouldn't like either. Although if it's that or divorce, maybe. But, I was told you should never leave the kids before or during a divorce, because that impacts custody. So, a trial separation seems risky for that reason, but I am unsure if that's reasonable.


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## Tron

If this went to D, what would you hope to get by way of custody? 

Have you had a consult with a lawyer? What state do you live in? Rules vary.

I'm just thinking a break with some IC might reduce the tension and resentment. Secondary benefit might be that it will provide some additional motivation for your W.


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## wantshelp

Tron said:


> If this went to D, what would you hope to get by way of custody?


I am hoping to share custody 50/50, one week with each parent. I have no clue what to expect. My fear is that the process will not be fair. 

I live in a no-fault, no-alimony state. I did have an initial consult with a lawyer, but he wanted to be ruthless, and I didn't like his attitude. My wife and i still like each other and i want to keep it that way, so I am thinking of arbitration.


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## john117

farsidejunky said:


> Mem has a saying, something similar to this:
> 
> "Wife, it is unreasonable to expect me to be both monogamous and celibate."
> 
> It really clarifies the problem.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Unreasonable is a very open ended proposition. 

Depending on how, ehem, motivated to not have sex the LD partner really is, carrying out the perceived or implied threat could also be a disaster.

Start by understanding the LD partner's motives and rationale. Without that it's a waste of time.


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