# Living the fake relationship life



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

This is 'feedback' from my EX WS after we recently returned from a short holiday. This was triggered when things went pear shaped on the return journey.

"Putting this in writing, because I currently feel that if I even try to talk to you about it, you will get defensive and start yelling.
Seriously, you need to go back to the doctor and get on some medication. It has got to the point where both me and the kids are walking on tenterhooks, because we are never sure what is going to annoy you next, all we know is that something will soon.

When it comes to me, apparently everything I do pi**es you off and most of the things the kids do or don’t do pi** you off.
In the car yesterday, when you turned out of McDonalds and kept driving, I felt like I used to feel when my own Dad did that. All the kids and I could do was shut up and hoped you would get over it.

I don’t know what is going on with you, but it really can’t be good for your health. Getting pi**ed off over things you can’t change is not like you and it just makes us all feel uncomfortable. Like the traffic jam the other day, you commenting on it and continually being pi**ed off did not help and was not going to help the situation, but obviously it made you feel better, while making us all feel uncomfortable, because there was nothing we could do to change it.

Your mood swings are huge and we are never sure what is going to set you off and that is why I have trouble getting close to you. I currently don’t feel like I can be vulnerable around you as I am never sure when you are going to “attack” me. You hate that I drink – too bad, that is who I am. I will not apologise for that and I don’t feel you have the right to constantly go on about it. Let it go will you.

I don’t hound you about stuff, but you are always making snide comments or remarks that always manage to hit home, even if I don’t let you see it. I am struggling to feel comfortable around you, just as I start to feel that we are doing okay, something “happens” that sets you off again.

You say that I need to talk to you, but you won’t let me, you just get the shi*s and defensive and won’t do anything to help yourself. 

I promised myself that my kids would never feel the way I used to around my Dad, walking on egg shells and I felt it yesterday in the car and I never want to feel that way again. 

The kids and I are people in our own right and we don’t deserve to be treated with contempt. You also need to understand that we won’t always fit into YOUR agenda and we don’t have to. If you want us to help you with something, ask for help, but don’t demand that it be done immediately. 

You do this a lot with our son and when he says “in a little while” you goad and nag him until he helps. Please, please get some medication to even out your “highs and lows” as your mood swings and angry outbursts are making us all feel uncomfortable in our own home.

I know that this will probably pi** you off, but I know of no other way to let you know – because right now you are not open to a frank conversation, it always just ends back at my faults and failings and I am getting a little sick of hearing about them. No, I am not perfect, yes I have issues and faults, but that doesn’t give you the right to constantly throw them in my face. It is very hard to get close to someone when they have been berating you for some failing five minutes ago.

I love you and I want to be with you – but we need to change things as I will not go through the horrible feeling that we had in the car yesterday, when what we (the kids and I needed) didn’t matter to you – you didn’t care if we needed a toilet break or were hungry, you just decided that it was too busy and moved on. That was not your decision to make alone as it affected us all."

So, that's that. I had dropped the medication again and I accept that this is a problem. There is much I need to repair about myself. The trouble is I haven't forgiven her affair - despite my moods an pedantic behavior I am still dogged by what she did. 

I realise that all this post affair time together (nearly 3 years) has continued to be, for all intents and purposes a relationship - even though I have told her to her face it is not; it is not what i want, it is a sham. A front for the kids and the greater family.

And of course I have not even started on the fact that she sees her drinking as normal and not to be questioned and that nothing has transpired in almost 3 years to attempt a genuine relationship repair. It is my moods, the struggle to live with me, which prevents her getting close to me. It's all me. I have issues, but there is something not quite right here.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Her affair and your anger are two different things. 

You need to get a hold of your anger for you and the kids, no matter how you feel about her. Acting angry in the car with your children in it? Not ok. Women need to be able to feel safe around a man and if he has a temper, a short fuse, we won't. One angry outburst can do a lot of damage for a long time. 
Angry Outbursts

If you don't want to stay with her, don't, but don't use her affair to justify bad actions on your part. You don't get a free pass to treat her badly because of something that happened 3 years ago.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

When I ask my kids to do something and the response is "in a little while" that's unacceptable. 

To label it nagging is quite dismissive of her as their mother. 

How would you feel if next time they ignore you and you get upset she tells you to stop nagging? 

Even labeling her concern nagging shows complete disregard for whatever was bothering her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

That's a good point - thanks. It's the feedback I need. I thought I was on the right path by and large but I was wrong. I have gone even further down the wrong road. My behavior is my responsibility - I don't have a right to punish her, even if she has never accepted the damage she created. I have to find a way to get out of this jam. I don't think reconciliation is possible. I admit it has remained with me, the idea that we could, but I think I am just too angry and too hurt. Yeah, I've been putting my pain out there in every facet of my life for too long. You know it's amazing how one comment here can have more 'cut through' than hours and hours of talking to therapists.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

And that's a big one for me - she doesn't see where I feel my 'authority', so to speak, is being undermined. In fact there have been numerous times over the years where I have had to specifically ask her not to undermine my parenting in front of the kids. And par for the course this has lead to an argument. I mean I have to draw the line somewhere. There is no doubt her 'Daddy' issues have lead to a distinct distrust and contempt for men.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

If she sees your anger around the kids, it's instinct to go and protect them even if it means undermining you. 

Read through this thread, a woman who has issues with her husband being too angry and snide with the kids http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...unicating-emotional-immaturity-my-spouse.html

Do you feel you do the same kinds of things? I go through this with my H when he's being too harsh on them. Stop, they don't need it. There's no need to get upset and as soon as you do, you've lost all credibility and control. I have to remind him to treat them how he wants to be treated. Does he like to be dictated and army Sergent-ed around or does he respond better to asking nicely and respectfully?


If none of them are comfortable around you, it's going to make it hard for any of them to open up to you and get the respect you are wanting back from them. 

If you have no interest in repairing the marriage then you should just divorce. It's not better for the kids to be in a broken marriage. 
If you do want to repair things, you'll have to let go of your anger and put the past in the past and work on things from now on.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Her affair and your anger are two different things.
> 
> You need to get a hold of your anger for you and the kids, no matter how you feel about her. Acting angry in the car with your children in it? Not ok. Women need to be able to feel safe around a man and if he has a temper, a short fuse, we won't. One angry outburst can do a lot of damage for a long time.
> Angry Outbursts
> ...


Relationships only work when individuals have and act out of good intentions. It isn't fair for either individual to remain preoccupied with the past. Indeed, either get over it or end the relationship. Forgiving and forgetting is not easy, but it is certainly feasible when approached in a healthy manner.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Oops, i misunderstood. I read it as you calling your wife naggy...... but I do still think it's disrespectful for her to label you naggy because you don't want to be told "in a little while" by your kids. 

But yes, you need help with the anger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

I don't express myself in aggressively in tangents over my frustrations, but I am like you in that two years after her affairs I am still emotionally hung up it on what she did. And I have come to accept I am not going to get over it and I am just going to have to leave her if I want to be happy. I wish I did this when I was really angry two years ago.

When I read her words it makes you sound like a raging NPD butthole. But when I add your context I see a man that just can't forgive his wife and is having trouble processing that to a conclusion with or with out her. Fortunately in my case there are no children.

Good Luck.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

The fact is that I did a lot, particularly in that first year - changed the way I dressed and cut my hair, worked out and have found almost full time work hours in the last 18 months. But it meant nothing as far as a genuine recon went (it was false recon for the first 12months - I was stupid). This woman has been saying since day one that she doesn't have to change a thing about her life and that remains the case.

She's like her Father was, she can't admit culpability - it's beyond her. It has never occurred to her that her affair is at the root of some of my behavior. She simply cannot mention cheating or alcoholism for that matter. And another thing - I spent weeks and weeks distancing as well. No snide comments, no mention of the affair, no criticism, nothing - Mr Neutral and for what. 

Nothing has worked before and over the last year I've spiraled into this place where I'm here in this house with her and our kids and it's a grind. When there is no love or intimacy, just a kind of companionship, it's pretty ordinary. And yet, she is quite content to have this unmentioned 'arrangement'. Drag out the vibrator once a week and all is complete.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

If you need to leave her, that's one thing. I'm ready to finally check out of my marriage. Not for it's problems, but for her refusal to help me through them. To TALK to me. So if that's what you want to hear, stop reading. It's probably for the best.

But what are your intents on reconciling? You say it's been hard and you don't think you can. Understandable. But do you want to at all? Because if you do, you may be surprised that her next letter is on the refridgerator with a magnet, attached to divorce documents and an iron clad legal description of what visitation will be like until it's all settled.

Would that surprise you?

Shock you?

The a-hole crap that you've been pulling lately. Is it just your normal a-hole behavior on steroids or is it something new? If the latter, work on it. Get help. Maybe save your marriage. If the former, it's been pushing her away for a lot longer than you know. She's probably already gone. SURELY will be if you don't take this letter seriously and get your **** together.

I know YOU'RE done. I heard about her affair. I couldn't get over an affair. Nobody REALLY does, from what I understand. And you've got the high ground. SHE did wrong. Everyone can expect and understand if YOU leave. I just wonder if you will be prepared when she does first.

Good luck to you.

We're talking about "walk-away-wives" when we should be talking about push-away-husbands.

Don't take it personally OP. I was one too. Most of us were/are. Most of us just don't know it yet. And when they find out, it's usually too late.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Horizon said:


> The fact is that I did a lot, particularly in that first year - changed the way I dressed and cut my hair, worked out and have found almost full time work hours in the last 18 months. But it meant nothing as far as a genuine recon went (it was false recon for the first 12months - I was stupid). This woman has been saying since day one that she doesn't have to change a thing about her life and that remains the case.
> 
> She's like her Father was, she can't admit culpability - it's beyond her. It has never occurred to her that her affair is at the root of some of my behavior. She simply cannot mention cheating or alcoholism for that matter. And another thing - I spent weeks and weeks distancing as well. No snide comments, no mention of the affair, no criticism, nothing - Mr Neutral and for what.
> 
> Nothing has worked before and over the last year I've spiraled into this place where I'm here in this house with her and our kids and it's a grind. When there is no love or intimacy, just a kind of companionship, it's pretty ordinary. And yet, she is quite content to have this unmentioned 'arrangement'. Drag out the vibrator once a week and all is complete.



You get a letter like that and that's your response. She's trying to give you a second chance. You WILL blow it.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Horizon said:


> The fact is that I did a lot, particularly in that first year - changed the way I dressed and cut my hair, worked out and have found almost full time work hours in the last 18 months. But it meant nothing as far as a genuine recon went (it was false recon for the first 12months - I was stupid). This woman has been saying since day one that she doesn't have to change a thing about her life and that remains the case.
> 
> She's like her Father was, she can't admit culpability - it's beyond her. It has never occurred to her that her affair is at the root of some of my behavior. She simply cannot mention cheating or alcoholism for that matter. And another thing - I spent weeks and weeks distancing as well. No snide comments, no mention of the affair, no criticism, nothing - Mr Neutral and for what.
> 
> Nothing has worked before and over the last year I've spiraled into this place where I'm here in this house with her and our kids and it's a grind. When there is no love or intimacy, just a kind of companionship, it's pretty ordinary. And yet, she is quite content to have this unmentioned 'arrangement'. Drag out the vibrator once a week and all is complete.



These emotions and circumstances are really familiar to me. In my case my wife has deeply flawed father who is an expert illustrating his own version of the reality on his relationships and has plenty of adultery in his past and she even admires him for this, while leveling faux criticism over these things. Fathers can leave a strong imprint on their daughter's character I have noticed.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

And I'm not saying she's right. The alcohol has to slow down and she needs to finally help you through the affair. Those are some BIG hurdles you can put in front of her if you want. See how serious she is about fixing things. She doesn't want to address those elephants? You're better off without her. And she may even lose her kids.

Just cut the pissed off hurt guy act. It's pushing her away.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Horizon said:


> The fact is that I did a lot, particularly in that first year -* changed the way I dressed and cut my hair, worked out and have found almost full time work hours in the last 18 months. *But it meant nothing as far as a genuine recon went (it was false recon for the first 12months - I was stupid). This woman has been saying since day one that she doesn't have to change a thing about her life and that remains the case.


These are things for you and are very important but not reconciliation for the marriage. 

Recovery After an Affair
Read through Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery at the bottom. 

1. The Rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness. (note that angry outbursts are a no-no here)
2. The Rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs. 
3: The Rule of Time: Give each other your undivided attention a minimum of 15 hours every week. 
4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse. 


Are you both willing and able to do those things? If she doesn't want to try, there's no point. If you don't want to try, there's no point. 
You could always start the process yourself, stop love busters, start meeting her needs and see if she eventually comes around to join you, but unless you're willing to do it all and have little to nothing in return for a while it's not going to do much, IMO. 

You say she doesn't want to change but her letter does express that she loves you and wants to be with you. If she truly does, that might be enough to get her on track.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If I recall correctly, Horizon, your WW is a serious alcoholic. This isn't some background irritant. This is the elephant in the room. It is stressful to be a spouse of an alcoholic, not to mention the spouse of an alcoholic who cheats.

Are you in Al-Anon? Have you drawn a line in the sand about her getting sober?

If she won't help herself, you have to be the one to take care of you and the children. In my opinion, until you truly address her problem, issues like the one you've posted here are ancillary.


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## KJ_Simmons (Jan 12, 2016)

You either need to forgive and forget the affair and treat your family better, or accept that you can't or won't get over it and move on. 

I hate hearing about folks staying in loveless and tense relationships with their spouses "for the sake of the kids". Not realizing how much the relationship spills over to their treatment of their children. Ask yourself, would you be a better Dad living in the same house and continuing with your current pattern of behavior, or moving on and regaining your sanity and inner peace? You could be the cool parent who gets to have all the fun with the kids. And they will actually grow much closer to you as opposed to resenting you which is what this pattern of behavior will result in.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

OP, 3 years later you still have the hurt from her affair. She is a drunk. It's hard to fix a relationship after affairs in the best of times and she has alcohol issues. The odds that you two are ever a successful couple is near zero.

My advice is protect yourself and your kids and start planning on life without her and divorce. You tried but at this point staying just means you are resigning yourself a lifetime of internal suffering. 

You're anger probably won't change with her. You need to fix that for YOU. Living like that will be hell over and over again.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

I put this out there because it's very easy to keep looking at things through the same specs. The advice and commentary is appreciated. I would love to move out but it's just not possible now. 

Clearly we are not going to reconcile and make it as a 'happy couple' - the sort of couple I see from time to time. 

I am going to try my best to stop the blame game - to stop the private seething and just get on with my life.

Since I opened this thread I have just been as 'level' as I can. Not demanding the kids do stuff to help, just asking them and not going on with it if they don't or want to do it in their time. I thought I could command them, so to speak, but I'm wrong. You are right, it doesn't work. In my defence I would say that my own anxiety and anger / frustration is depressive behavior and perhaps learned from my upbringing - a way to control my environment. 

I thought they might get it at their age and pitch in more, as I did when I was young, but there are more distractions now. Plus my EX WS / fake partner simply does not support my desire to get them to 'pull their fingers out' as we say down under. To be fair she has not completely abandoned my wishes for them but it's support that I just should not rely on.

I have been neutral with my EX WS, not stupidly so, with a hidden agenda, but just trying to be level - take the emotion out of it. And hopefully avoid coming across as someone who has had a lobotomy. 

I have to face the fact that I don't have it in me to reconcile It seems we both don't. I think deep down a part of me wants to but it may be the child in me fearing going it alone - or something like that. And let's face it - no matter what the blocks may be for whatever reason, she is not able to even talk about it or anything remotely linked to 'us'. And that's all the info I need to go on. It's not my job to work out. If she was going to bring it, she would have brought it long ago.

I thought she had to do all the work after what she put me through and yet I can put myself in her shoes and see that she feels much the same way. A good place to start recon you think? I'm too tired.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'll just offer a few things... From my pov:

1.) You've become a d1ck Captain. You are trying to lead by ways of severe fear and uncaring, while thinking it's some kind of acceptable 180. If you're done with your wife that's one thing, but your attitude is spilling over to your kids... Not good. You are responsible for your own well being first, so you can be able to support & look out for theirs. If women feel afraid for them or their child's physical or emotional safety, they will remove themselves & kids to be safer. She is being crystal clear, no hintese. This is serious. 

2.) You have a drunk First Officer that can't trust the Captain to not toss her and kids over the side so he can drive the boat all on his own. He's not leading by good example, so why should she not find it desirable to numb herself? Yes she needs to fix the alcohol problem, but why bother when the Captain won't get himself help first? 

You're dreading the heck out of your relationship and it's working too well. Someone has to start first in the improvement department and her letter is a plea for it to be YOU. 

Work on your aggression TODAY if you want this relationship. LEAVE if you don't. She's going to end it soon in either case, seems like. It's your choice, no one else's.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> These are things for you and are very important but not reconciliation for the marriage.
> 
> Recovery After an Affair
> Read through Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery at the bottom.
> ...


Thanks SGC -

I can meet number 1 and I have been doing that. I have also applied that to our children. Please note that I'd hate anyone to think I walk around the house raging. It's not that - I'm pedantic about keeping the house tidy (within reason and I'm also the only one who feels that way, except my young son to a degree). The women are slobs - no offence meant. However I have pushed it too far and yes, it has been in part driven by my own highs & lows / anxiety. I'm working on it. ps: Just being more conscious of my interaction has helped me - still deciding whether I need to get back on the happy pills.

I don't have it in me to do much from the other 3 points. I do some of it naturally eg: since I posted I am conscious of not pursuing any of the previous 'attacks' modes when triggers arise or the offhand remarks or criticisms. So I am in a sense meeting her emotional needs. Overall I'm trying to be a better role model / leader for my children and a more stable presence. And of course I try to be as honest as possible.

The simple fact is that my EX WS cannot express her deepest feelings or fears. Occasionally she will reveal a bit when she is inebriated but generally it is about her estranged siblings and stuff from when she was young or the way her siblings acted 15 years ago when our relationship was younger and the kids came on the scene. 

I think we just went too far. Things were off the boil well before her affair and her answer eventually was to have an affair to feel better. I have lost the desire to put in more effort directly for us beyond what I have said - I'm a companion and Father. That's my role. 

I'm not trying to seek pity here, it's a fact. We are struggling to meet bills and I am right now trying to negotiate more credit from our bank. The existing debt is huge but our house has increased substantially in market value. We are going to have to do it because my EX WS's contract ends very soon and she has not been able to secure a replacement job at this stage. My income will not meet our outgoings. We have dramas with our son's extreme anxiety, our daughter's health issues, I have Diabetes and anxiety and my 'companion' is a functioning alcoholic

Which leads to an example of our interaction. I have correspondence from the bank which she has to counter sign. While having her morning coffee before heading off to work I said to her i wanted to run something by her about it. Her response? "It's a little early in the morning".

Seriously, do I have to be that sensitive that I know not to discuss stuff with her in the morning? I didn't need a big sit down. And yes, I do know that she's not at her best in the morning and I have seen this for years - but one thing to consider? Come on !

Oh, I get it - she wants me to lead ! My negotiate / let's talk about it routine is viewed as co-dependent. Right !! I finally get it !!!!


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

How are things going these days? 

Also, how much does she spend of alcohol every month ?


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