# Fiancee seems distant



## bk27 (Jun 25, 2018)

I'm a 54 year old guy, my fiancee is 46. We have been together 5 1/2 years, and officially engaged a little over a year. We have both been married before. I have three adult sons, but two of them (ages 24 and 20) are currently living with me. She has two sons (19 and 14) who both still live with her. Our engagement, by design, will be several years before actually getting married. She's not quite ready, and it was a huge step for her to say yes to my proposal last year. But I worded it in such a way that we both understood it would be several years before we got married. (I've been divorced from my first wife for 13 years. She's been divorced from her first husband about seven years, and she's honestly still a bit skittish about marriage--she was badly hurt in her first marriage and divorce. As was I, but it was longer ago than hers.)

Okay, that's the background. We have many interests in common, love doing things together and have a wonderful times together. Our work schedules are slightly different, though not radically so. We live about five miles from each other. (I moved last year to be closer to her--I had been about 20 miles away, within the same metro area.) Here's the thing: most weeks we only see other once a week, on the weekend. Sometimes we might see each other one evening during the week (but since I get off work later, it isn't for very long, since she still has to deal with her younger son's school, homework, etc.). I've brought up that I'd like to see each other a bit more often, but that I understand we both have responsibilities, etc. She likes things pretty much how they are, and said she doesn't want to feel like she has to "do something" every time we're together. I've told her that I don't expect to be "entertained"--we can eat chips and watch TV when we're together, if nothing else. We don't have to always "do something" (though, as I said, we enjoy some similar activities and have great times when we are together). That's where the topic was left, as she didn't seem inclined to discuss further.

Which brings me to the next point. She doesn't really like to talk about relationship issues, feelings, etc. Now, I'm an overly emotional, sentimental guy, and I realize this. She, not so much with the emotions. She rarely says "I love you" first. Sometimes she doesn't respond when I say it. This in itself is not that big a deal. But it's part of a larger pattern, in that she is very uncomfortable talking about relationship issues. I try to respect this and not push on it, but I'm a communicator, and I need to verbally talk about things. (If it helps, my love languages, for those familiar with the concept, are "words of affirmation" and "physical touch." I would say hers are "gift giving" and "acts of service." I work hard at helping her with things, performing acts of service. I'm not as good at gifting, but working on it.) Going on: lately she may or may not respond to a text from me. Yes, she's busy, yes, I'm busy, but I'll drop her a "thinking of you" or "how's your day" text now and then and will get no response.

One step further: she has very little interest in physical affection these days, and no interest in sex. I have a normal/average (whatever that means) sex drive for a man my age, I think. She had a hysterectomy three years ago and has had very little interest in sex since. I need physical intimacy. It is hugely important to me. Lately (over the last few months), she even has little interest just in kissing or lightly making out, or anything physical beyond quick kisses. Love kissing her, always have. And in the beginning, we had a very good sex life. We experimented and explored things neither of us had in our first marriages. But now it seems she just kind of tolerates me kissing her. The other night, as I was leaving her house, I was giving her a long goodnight kiss, and she actually sort of pushed against my chest and pushed me away, like "Okay, that's enough." (I should add, in fairness, that she will hold my hand if we're sitting on the couch, or in a movie, etc.)

I've tried discussing my frustration about these things, working hard to use "I feel" language, rather than aiming it at her, and she is soooo uncomfortable talking about it. She'll quickly want to change the subject to something lighter.

We've been through a lot together, and have always been there for each other: multiple health issues for each of us, issues with kids and families, unemployment, etc. I adore this woman with all my soul, and I have much love to give to her. But I am frustrated as I can be right now. Any insights from anyone would be appreciated. Most of the things online are geared toward younger couples, it seems, and don't necessarily apply to our situation.

Thanks in advance.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

There are a lot of red flags going on here. Are you colorblind by any chance?  It's pretty clear you guys are looking for different things out of a relationship. It sounds like she wants a low-commitment companion while you want a soulmate. I'm not sure she can become the partner you need. And her lack of passion at this point in the relationship is troubling. It typically just gets worse from here. I think you may need to decide if you want to be with her as she is today or if you want to find a different person who has similar relationship goals.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

To be honest it doesn't sound as if you are compatible, or that she wants a committed relationship/marriage. Thee really isn't any point in getting engaged if you are not ready for marriage. 

There are so many red flags here. It may help if you get some pre marriage counselling to see if this helps, but she seem so very different from you, and isn't making any effort to change or do the things that you want. If things are not good now, they will get far worse once you eventually move in together/get married, if she ever wants to do that.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

wilson said:


> There are a lot of red flags going on here. Are you colorblind by any chance?  It's pretty clear you guys are looking for different things out of a relationship. It sounds like she wants a low-commitment companion while you want a soulmate. I'm not sure she can become the partner you need. And her lack of passion at this point in the relationship is troubling. It typically just gets worse from here. I think you may need to decide if you want to be with her as she is today or if you want to find a different person who has similar relationship goals.


^ all of this


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## bk27 (Jun 25, 2018)

Being "older," we actually talked about marriage for over a year before there was a proposal. At first she adamantly said she wasn't interested in marriage, but that if she were, I would definitely be the one she would marry, and she was happy to be with me indefinitely, married or not. I was patient and we talked about it a few more times, then out of the blue she started sending me pictures of engagement rings and saying "If you gave me one of these, I would wear it."

So we talked more, because I was confused by that point! She was coming around to the idea of marriage, she said, but only if it was still some years down the road. I bought a ring and very carefully considered how to frame the proposal to respect her feelings about a long engagement. She said yes, we told our kids, our families, etc., and have gone on about our lives. But when I (or anyone else) brings up marriage, she quickly says, "It's a long time from now, so I don't need to think about it." In some ways, it feels to me like she's not happy about the idea of getting married at all. Maybe she said yes just to keep me around because she knew it was important to me?

I understand what you are saying about the red flags, and appreciate the honest input. I do NOT want to break up with this woman. There are so many things I love about her. But these things I've mentioned have really made me concerned of late. But it's complex--we just had a little weekend getaway a few weeks ago. Had a wonderful time! We laughed, we road tripped (which we both love to do), went to a baseball game, had a lovely time. Ah, but there we were, in a hotel, no kids around, and she was too tired for any intimacy after the ball game. Okay, we were hot and sweaty and tired. I suggested a bit of intimacy in the morning, before we checked out of the hotel. She agreed, we slept, then in the morning, she didn't want to get up (she's kind of a notorious late sleeper), and then there was no time before we had to check out.

Full-on sex isn't everything. But, even though I'm an old guy, a little heavy making out is nice. And I need it. I am just feeling like my needs aren't being met--verbal, emotional, or physical.

And yet I don't want to lose her. Sigh. I and my sons adore her family and they have welcomed us as family even before it's "official." We had "family portraits" made last Christmas--the two of us, all of my kids, all of her kids. And it was her idea.

It's so complex! And frustrating!


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

She keeps you compartmentalized. To lessen the chance for future pain. There is baggage of past that has gone unresolved and is now bearing fruit in your relationship. The "flag" that worries me is ring bit...She doesn't want to talk about marriage, but she is A-OKAY with you buying her jewelry. When you propose to marriage, lingering doubt should not be present. You even said it...You were confused. 

Unfortunately, she isn't. She has put you in a box. You are the proverbial collectible on a shelf. Not the trustworthy partner to grow old with. You need intimacy and attention. She isn't giving it, because she doesn't WANT to.

Maybe you should start being back on the dating market again. Be upfront and honest about it of course, but let her know that your needs are not being met, and you are having serious doubts with the continuance of the relationship. It should be no problem anyways right? After all, you very rarely see her much anyhow! It wouldn't affect your time together and she wouldn't feel pressured to keep "entertaining" you as you put it....


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

bk27 said:


> (I've been divorced from my first wife for 13 years. She's been divorced from her first husband about seven years, and she's honestly still a bit skittish about marriage--she was badly hurt in her first marriage and divorce. As was I, but it was longer ago than hers.)


This is enough to step back and realize your fiance' probably holds the hurt a lot closer to her heart then you think. Self protection mode as you state she does not return terms of affection or physically as well. In short, it appears the relationship is dying on the vine with a weekend only time together, past marital resentment and hurt. None of these your doing. It appears you are doing your best to make it work.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

If she's not good at communicating about your relationship NOW, she won't be any better if you get married.
You really need some alone time with her and talk all of this out. If you aren't getting sex now, it's only going to get worse. Perhaps you can suggest counselling? She may be more comfortable talking it out with a neutral 3rd party mediating.

""It's a long time from now, so I don't need to think about it." In some ways, it feels to me like she's not happy about the idea of getting married at all. Maybe she said yes just to keep me around because she knew it was important to me?
"
Yeah, seems like maybe she agreed to placate you. REALLY sounds like she does NOT want to get married, and just wants the status quo with you. Someone to hang around and do things, but that's about it.


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## bk27 (Jun 25, 2018)

Oh, and I forgot to add, then even when we do kiss, she NEVER initiates it. I'm always the one who kisses her. Didn't seem that way a few years ago. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. I mean, I know we're past the "honeymoon" stage of the relationship.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

bk27 said:


> Oh, and I forgot to add, then even when we do kiss, she NEVER initiates it. I'm always the one who kisses her. Didn't seem that way a few years ago. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. I mean, I know we're past the "honeymoon" stage of the relationship.


Actually as it has been pointed out already, even though in years you are sorta past the normal honeymoon stage, in stature, you are not. You haven't even had your technical honeymoon yet and the honeymoon stage is over.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I totally understand where your fiancee is coming from. If I were to be single in the future this is what I would want. Someone to be a friend to me, I can have companionship with no commitment. It would be an ideal situation. I can have someone to go to dinner with, watch a movie, go on outings and to call when I need to.

The reasons:
I am financially comfortable and don't need anyone to "help" me. I have control over my money and would hate to have someone tell me how to manage my resources. (Maybe her previous marriage had similar issues of money problems).

I have no attraction to this new man and just see him in a friendship capacity. So, the need to have sex with him is nil. 

I have no wish to share a household with anyone but my kids. I don't want to have to take care of another man. (I am not saying you need taking care of) 

I intend to leave all my assets to my kids and don't want to have to worry about how having a husband will affect what I leave to my kids.( again not saying you want her money)

I don't need all the lovey dovey touching and conversations because that is not how I see or expect from this new relationship.


I hope you see where I am going with this. Her expectation is quite different from yours. You expect this soul connection and a marriage that will be filed with affection. She just wants companionship. That is why she accepted the ring, to keep you where you are now, with the promise of getting married years from now.

A woman who is mad about you would want to get married soon and would act as if the sun rises and sets on you. 

You two are the polar opposites in this relationship. She is just keeping you around because you fulfill one of her needs.

You will have to decide what you can live with and without. 

What was your previous marriage like?


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## bk27 (Jun 25, 2018)

Yes, I feel increasingly this way as well. And how does a couple go backward from being engaged to "just dating?" I don't know that I could do that, as much as I love this woman. If she would just show some glimmer of positive reaction to the idea of getting married rather than anxiety and worry... I was overjoyed at her saying "yes." We called our closest family members and friends immediately, but then I wanted to announce it via Facebook to our broader circles--and she wanted to delay several days doing that.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

bk27 said:


> Being "older," we actually talked about marriage for over a year before there was a proposal. At first she adamantly said she wasn't interested in marriage, but that if she were, I would definitely be the one she would marry, and she was happy to be with me indefinitely, married or not. I was patient and we talked about it a few more times, then out of the blue she started sending me pictures of engagement rings and saying "If you gave me one of these, I would wear it."
> 
> So we talked more, because I was confused by that point! She was coming around to the idea of marriage, she said, but only if it was still some years down the road. I bought a ring and very carefully considered how to frame the proposal to respect her feelings about a long engagement. She said yes, we told our kids, our families, etc., and have gone on about our lives. But when I (or anyone else) brings up marriage, she quickly says, "It's a long time from now, so I don't need to think about it." In some ways, it feels to me like she's not happy about the idea of getting married at all. Maybe she said yes just to keep me around because she knew it was important to me?
> 
> ...


It's not complex at all.

And you've been told what the deal is.

Now sit there and argue around the point all you want, you'll just get more of the same from her.

Up to you, deal with it, or live with it.


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## bk27 (Jun 25, 2018)

Thanks for your insight. We both have careers and are financially independent (though the field she works in pays better than mine - it's never been an issue, though). It does seem like she wants companionship and I want a soulmate, as another commenter put it. Also,FYI, her first husband was the only man she had ever dated (they knew each other in high school). After her divorce, she had one or two dates with other guys before we met. I've been a bit more experienced, I guess. I dated a few other girls before getting married, and I had two other relationships post-divorce before meeting her.

My first marriage (19 years) was a sham. The woman I was married to, and who is the mother of my children, was never "into it." She basically faked it for all the years we were together in order to fulfill a self-image of the "long-suffering good little wife." (Her words, not mine.) Our entire relationship was a lie. She also admitted at the end that she'd had romantic attractions to many men for the entire length of our marriage. I don't believe she committed physical, sexual adultery, but certainly she committed emotional adultery. After our divorce, we had joint custody of our sons, and we fashioned a functional, cordial, co-parenting relationship. I wouldn't quite call us friends, but we've worked together for the benefit of the boys.

PS. I definitely don't need "taking care of." I've been taking care of myself all my life, during my first marriage and since my divorce.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

bk27 said:


> Oh, and I forgot to add, then even when we do kiss, she NEVER initiates it. I'm always the one who kisses her. Didn't seem that way a few years ago. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. I mean, I know we're past the "honeymoon" stage of the relationship.


The honeymoon of a relationship...one should attempt to keep that in the relationship. In short, keep dating. 

It really appears she has detached from you. I think conversation is in order. The rudder has fallen off this boat.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

bk27 said:


> Thanks for your insight. We both have careers and are financially independent (though the field she works in pays better than mine - it's never been an issue, though). It does seem like she wants companionship and I want a soulmate, as another commenter put it. Also,FYI, her first husband was the only man she had ever dated (they knew each other in high school). After her divorce, she had one or two dates with other guys before we met. I've been a bit more experienced, I guess. I dated a few other girls before getting married, and I had two other relationships post-divorce before meeting her.
> 
> My first marriage (19 years) was a sham. The woman I was married to, and who is the mother of my children, was never "into it." She basically faked it for all the years we were together in order to fulfill a self-image of the "long-suffering good little wife." (Her words, not mine.) Our entire relationship was a lie. She also admitted at the end that she'd had romantic attractions to many men for the entire length of our marriage. I don't believe she committed physical, sexual adultery, but certainly she committed emotional adultery. After our divorce, we had joint custody of our sons, and we fashioned a functional, cordial, co-parenting relationship. I wouldn't quite call us friends, but we've worked together for the benefit of the boys.


Time for a serious conversation about what you need and get from her what she needs. You might have to force this because this needs to be discussed in depth. Do not let her hide from this conversation. One way to do it might be to make an appointment for a mc and take her to it. Inform the therapist before hand what you would like to discuss so that you can go to the heart of the problem immediately.

Good luck.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I almost think you shouldn't talk about this with her. Either accept who she is or move on. I'm sure a discussion will cause some short-term change, but that will only give you false hope. You'll be energized by any change she makes, but it will slowly trickle back to the way it was. You'll then repeat this cycle as long as you can take it.

Based on your past marriage, I'm not sure why you're still trying to make this work. From my perspective, it seems like she is also just going through the motions. It looks like a marriage with her would be a repeat of what you just had.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I'll give you my 2 cents on this from my perspective as a woman. I'm pretty independent. I like having my own space. I also am not big on having "I feel" conversations. It's just my nature. I don't think she's interested in marrying you. In fact, I'm pretty sure she'd be just fine keeping things status quo. 

That's her nature. It's who she is. You are getting frustrated because you are trying to get her to meet needs you have. Quit trying to get blood from a turnip. Accept her for who she is, and you will alleviate a great deal of your frustration. If you are feeling unfulfilled - and it sounds like you are - then you have to make a decision. 

I don't see her wanting to change. Seriously.


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## bk27 (Jun 25, 2018)

Thank you, everyone. A question about myself: does it seem as though I am being "needy?" No one likes a needy guy, after all. I understand the difference between having needs and being needy, and I also understand it is a fine line at times.

I really appreciate the honest perspectives. I have talked to a couple of friends, but I wanted to find someplace I could get input from people who don't know me, don't know her, don't have preconceived ideas. This is very helpful.

I also fear a painful conversation coming. Painful for everyone concerned.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bk27 said:


> A question about myself: does it seem as though I am being "needy?"


In a nutshell, yes.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

bk27 said:


> Thanks for your insight. We both have careers and are financially independent (though the field she works in pays better than mine - it's never been an issue, though). It does seem like she wants companionship and I want a soulmate, as another commenter put it. Also,FYI, her first husband was the only man she had ever dated (they knew each other in high school). After her divorce, she had one or two dates with other guys before we met. I've been a bit more experienced, I guess. I dated a few other girls before getting married, and I had two other relationships post-divorce before meeting her.
> 
> My first marriage (19 years) was a sham. The woman I was married to, and who is the mother of my children, was never "into it." She basically faked it for all the years we were together in order to fulfill a self-image of the "long-suffering good little wife." (Her words, not mine.) Our entire relationship was a lie. She also admitted at the end that she'd had romantic attractions to many men for the entire length of our marriage. I don't believe she committed physical, sexual adultery, but certainly she committed emotional adultery. After our divorce, we had joint custody of our sons, and we fashioned a functional, cordial, co-parenting relationship. I wouldn't quite call us friends, but we've worked together for the benefit of the boys.
> 
> PS. I definitely don't need "taking care of." I've been taking care of myself all my life, during my first marriage and since my divorce.


Isn't this kind of the same situation. Again you pick a women who is not into it the way you are into her. It seems like you pick women like this, which means in all likelihood your picker is broken.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I don't think your needy your looking for a healthy relationship and everything your looking for is not out of the question, but you will not find it in her and she will not change...so why settle for less. Time to move on.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

OP, it is obvious that although you are asking for advice, you are reluctantly not wanting to take it. 

You come off as a needy guy, who's picker is broken, and keep picking the same woman: that one that is not really into you; but will think: you will do to an extent until the "one" comes along, if..

Myself, even when I was at the early teen's life stage I was somehow acutely sensitive to females cues as to how interested they were in me. Anything, short of me being the only one in their radar, was sufficient justification for me ghosting them. I've never, ever deviated from that. It has served me well. Take heed. It seems based on your posts, that you are one more time wasting your time. Life is short, get someone that is in the up and up with you emotionally. Good luck, but it needs more of you coming along with it.


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## bk27 (Jun 25, 2018)

Yes, I suppose my "picker" is defective.


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