# MM and affair aftermath...



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

From blogs, to forums to books--you can read a ton of things about what happens to the Other Woman after an affair and the devastation, pain and the horrendous feeling of being used she experiences.
I'd like to know what happens to the MM in the aftermath?? If the affair is discovered and his wife knows...what happens for him? Is the OW someone who just suddenly disappears to him...never to be thought of again? Does the MM feel bad for duping and dumping the OW??
It seems to me that many MM pay a price for a time and then get on with their lives while it takes the OW many months to years to get over the ending of the affair.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It is a case-by-case thing.

Were you the OW?


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I agree case by case basis.

Right now irl I know of one OW and she's truly a homewrecking ho. Trust me this is a fact. The first MM went back to his wife never to be heard from again. He second MM also went back to his wife. Seems she is just good for sex but not good enough to leave the wife and kids for.

So far the only home she's been able to wreck though is her own.


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

I was the OW for a year. Dated my affair partner in high school...and 21 years later he found me on Facebook.


----------



## Anonymous_Female (Apr 16, 2011)

Tzu68 said:


> From blogs, to forums to books--you can read a ton of things about what happens to the Other Woman after an affair and the devastation, pain and the horrendous feeling of being used she experiences.
> I'd like to know what happens to the MM in the aftermath?? If the affair is discovered and his wife knows...what happens for him? Is the OW someone who just suddenly disappears to him...never to be thought of again? Does the MM feel bad for duping and dumping the OW??
> It seems to me that many MM pay a price for a time and then get on with their lives while *it takes the OW many months to years to get over the ending of the affair*.


Did she know he was married? Then...good. And if she didn't, then...I don't know. I still have trouble finding much sympathy, to be honest.


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Anonymous_Female said:


> Did she know he was married? Then...good. And if she didn't, then...I don't know. I still have trouble finding much sympathy, to be honest.


I know I feel the same way. When I was single I went out on dates with men that failed to mention that they were married. As soon as I found out though I cut off all contact. They might have been the greatest guy ever but if he's willing to do that while still married doesn't it stand to reason he'd might do it again? That was my logic anyway.


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

If you've been a woman betrayed by your husband--I'm really sorry for your pain. I made a choice (an extremely bad choice) to do what I did by having an affair and I wasn't looking for your sympathy. I'm here looking for some kind of help to what's going on in my head and since the ending was abrupt I have questions that I thought I'd throw out there.
If there are any men reading that have ended their affairs I'd like to hear what you have to say about your feelings in the aftermath...


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

I've read the book, thank you.
And I'd appreciate it if BS didn't reply to this post.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

The OW was married and obviously my H, but he stated from early on that he had no intentions of leaving me and the kids. His Dad left his Mom, so he couldn't see himself doing the same thing. The OW also had at least 2 previous EAs that were probably PA and more than likely numbered more than two. So, I have no sympathy for her situation that she helped create.

However, my H does feel bad. He realizes now that he was using her for an ego boost. He had said he loved her, but had only said it in the first place because she said it first. Easier to say it back then to disrupt the fantasy.

He does feel bad and has moments where he'd like more "closure", but to what purpose? Anything he could say to make her feel better, would make me feel worse. In this situation my feelings should take priority over hers. Plus, I think it's more of a desire to make himself feel like less of a bad guy. To make sure she doesn't think poorly of him or of herself for what happened. However, I can't condone this either. In a way, he was a bad guy by letting his selfishness allow an affair. Plus, if by some miracle she feels bad about choosing to pursue a married man, let her. Maybe then she won't do it a fourth time. *rolls eyes*

I'm glad you see it was a bad decision and it's hard to know what the MM is thinking. Some probably do feel bad, but I think most are more concerned about saving what they're already spent years building with their wives. I get the feeling that the sooner I let my H forget about the OW, he'll be happy to forget all about her and his fall from grace.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Tzu68 said:


> I've read the book, thank you.
> And I'd appreciate it if BS didn't reply to this post.


Oops, sorry just saw this and I had already posted. Feel like I spoke for my husband though.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I don't really think you get to pick and choose who responds to your posts.

However - having said that - I hope you're willing to suffer some slings and arrows and stick around a bit. Not often we get to hear from the other person.


----------



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> I don't really think you get to pick and choose who responds to your posts.


:smthumbup:

Pet thing of mine.


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> My apologies. It was not explicit.
> Please do make it explicit next time.
> Because BW do live with MM and know a lot about what his life is like after, you will probably get lots of posts from BW unless you are explicit.


I'm new here, so I apologize for not being more explicit when I posted.
I was an OW. I'm *NOT* now....and I had nothing to do with any of the BW's here. I don't expect a BW to condone what I've done or hand me a Kleenex while I boo-hoo or give an ounce of sympathy. I can't wear a BW's shoes but I will not lash out and cause a BW more harm than she's already gone through.
I appreciate hearing from all sides---but, just know that just because I was an OW doesn't mean that it's okay to be hurtful towards me.
I realize I was an ego boost. I realize that he dished out lies and gave me "hope" but was ultimately never going to "leave his kids". Through it all though...I am a woman and I have a heart and I have feelings. The regret that I've felt for what I've done to my husband is enormous. The thought of my MM's wife is never far from my mind.
The blame was all placed on her--and while I was in the affair I never once asked why she went "crazy" or why she "called him at work screaming and yelling"...or why "she turned the lights on at 1am and they stayed up fighting all night"---I had blinders on. I chose those blinders. When you feel "in love" you choose to look at the good and only the good in the one you "love". My MM was my first love...the one I lost my virginity to.
I will never give excuses for what I've done...all I know is that I'm not the only hurting soul in the mess that he and I both made.
Through counseling and books and blogs and boards I've read much about the OW and the devastation of the BW but haven't quite found anything to help understand the mind of the MM after the affair. I find it very hard to believe that a MM can snap and walk away from a year-long relationship without a care or thought in the world about the woman he had daily, sometimes hourly contact with. My affair was definately not just a "fantasy"---I was hurt more often than not and shed many tears trying to understand him and trying to figure myself out.
I've had to look in my husbands eyes and I KNOW and I've seen the horror and the pain of someone who was betrayed. I'm really sorry any of you have been there. My heart hurts and my life will NEVER be the same after what I've done.


----------



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tzu68 said:


> I'm new here, so I apologize for not being more explicit when I posted.
> I was an OW. I'm *NOT* now....and I had nothing to do with any of the BW's here. I don't expect a BW to condone what I've done or hand me a Kleenex while I boo-hoo or give an ounce of sympathy. I can't wear a BW's shoes but I will not lash out and cause a BW more harm than she's already gone through.
> I appreciate hearing from all sides---but, just know that just because I was an OW doesn't mean that it's okay to be hurtful towards me.


Who was hurtful to you?



> I realize I was an ego boost. I realize that he dished out lies and gave me "hope" but was ultimately never going to "leave his kids". Through it all though...I am a woman and I have a heart and I have feelings. The regret that I've felt for what I've done to my husband is enormous. The thought of my MM's wife is never far from my mind.
> The blame was all placed on her--and while I was in the affair I never once asked why she went "crazy" or why she "called him at work screaming and yelling"...or why "she turned the lights on at 1am and they stayed up fighting all night"---I had blinders on. I chose those blinders. When you feel "in love" you choose to look at the good and only the good in the one you "love".


That is called, by some, the fog. How you delude yourself. From what little I understand about affairs, nearly every person who engages in affairs suffers from the fog.

Have you been over to affaircare? It might be helpful to you.




> My MM was my first love...the one I lost my virginity to.
> I will never give excuses for what I've done...all I know is that I'm not the only hurting soul in the mess that he and I both made.
> Through counseling and books and blogs and boards I've read much about the OW and the devastation of the BW but haven't quite found anything to help understand the mind of the MM after the affair.


My main concern with regard to this need to understand what he is thinking is whether or not it stems from a pining to find out if he still has feelings for you. If so, that is dangerous water you are treading in. 

I am certain that there are other possible reasons. But that concern might be something to think about.



> I find it very hard to believe that a MM can snap and walk away from a year-long relationship without a care or thought in the world about the woman he had daily, sometimes hourly contact with.


Well I guess when I think about it, I would guess so since he was able to walk emotionally away from an x year long marriage without a care or thought in the world about the woman he had... children with.




> My affair was definately not just a "fantasy"---I was hurt more often than not and shed many tears trying to understand him and trying to figure myself out.
> I've had to look in my husbands eyes and I KNOW and I've seen the horror and the pain of someone who was betrayed. I'm really sorry any of you have been there. My heart hurts and my life will NEVER be the same after what I've done.


I would suggest affair care. I would also try to gently suggest you put your effort to understanding what happened wrong between you and your husband. Let the other man go.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Are you still married?



Tzu68 said:


> I'd like to know what happens to the MM in the aftermath?? .


Again, it is case-by-case. Some MM never leave their wives and cut off all contact (the wisest thing to do if they want to save their marriage). Some leave their wife for the OW. But no matter which way it shakes out, the MM destroys a lot of trust and a lot of lives no matter what. 




Tzu68 said:


> If the affair is discovered and his wife knows...what happens for him? .


One of two things happen as stated above: either he stays with his wife or he leaves the marriage.



Tzu68 said:


> Is the OW someone who just suddenly disappears to him...never to be thought of again? .


That would be up to the man. Maybe he doesn't remember her. Maybe he does. He could remmeber her wistfully or wonder "What if?" In those cases, they are the MMs who stay in their marriages so they don't know what the reality would have been w/ the OW, good or bad. The MM could also kick himself in the head every day for destroying his marriage or think of the OW as just a release for him sexually. No matter what though, I think the OW and OM are always an ego boost for the cheating husband or wife. I have seen some MM badmouth their mistress calling her "just a piece of meat." One of my good friend's brothers is married and some years back, talking about his OW, to his bro (my friend) saying it was nice to have free, easy sex but no woman of integrity would ever sleep with a married man, that he had no respect for the OW, that he would never trust her. The irony, of course, was he was married! He said the OW could not hold a candle to his wife in any way, shape or form. Then of course, are the ones who do leave for the OW. Some are happy in the end. Some are miserable in the end.



Tzu68 said:


> Does the MM feel bad for duping and dumping the OW??


Maybe? I am sure some do feel bad for inflicting any sort of harm on someone else, as most people feel hurt for someone they've made feel bad. Likewise, I am sure there are those who don't care either way if it was seen by them as a practicality (serving up an ego boost during a marital problem, free sex, etc).



Tzu68 said:


> It seems to me that many MM pay a price for a time and then get on with their lives while it takes the OW many months to years to get over the ending of the affair.


IMO, no MM or MW pays a price and then just moves on. Infidelity has long-lasting effects. Even if the marriage is saved, they have basically destroyed someone's love and trust in them. That is a HARD thing to deal with. So in your case, no doubt, he is still paying for it. Like you mentioned about seeing the hurt in your husband's eyes, he prob sees that in his wife's eyes and his childrens'. I think it is rare if a MM is just "forgiven" and faces no consequence for it. Some feel guilty for the rest of their lives. The ones that have no guilt or remorse probably didn't have an emotional attachment to their spouse.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I hope you didn't take anything I said as trying to be hurtful towards you. My H's OW is the only person I was thinking of if anything came out sounding mean spirited. She's the one that keeps having affairs with married men. At least you sound remorseful and are learning from your mistake.

Mommy 6547 made some great points. Probably not good to wonder what the MM is thinking, plus it might cause the temptation to reach out to him.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's gender differences that may allow the MM to move on faster than the OW. I've read that after an affair is discovered, woman loyals tend to dwell while men loyals want to stay busy and move on. Maybe it applies in this type of situation as well.


----------



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tzu, I am wondering if there is any subconcious something to your choice of labels. You call your self the OTHER woman and him the MARRIED man. Yet you are married. So aren't you also a MARRIED woman?


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Saffron said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it's gender differences that may allow the MM to move on faster than the OW. I've read that after an affair is discovered, woman loyals tend to dwell while men loyals want to stay busy and move on. Maybe it applies in this type of situation as well.


I can see both sides of the token here because some MW have an affair and when they are done with their sidepiece, move on and never look back.

BUT they do say that at the end of a relationship, men are way more likely to move on into another relationship quickly compared to women who tend to do a bit of healing first.

I agree with whoever told Tzu to not think about MM and focus on her own mariage. Trying to imagine what someone else is thinking will drive you nuts.


----------



## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Tzu68 said:


> I'm new here, so I apologize for not being more explicit when I posted.
> I was an OW. I'm *NOT* now....and I had nothing to do with any of the BW's here. I don't expect a BW to condone what I've done or hand me a Kleenex while I boo-hoo or give an ounce of sympathy. I can't wear a BW's shoes but I will not lash out and cause a BW more harm than she's already gone through.
> I appreciate hearing from all sides---but, just know that just because I was an OW doesn't mean that it's okay to be hurtful towards me.
> I realize I was an ego boost. I realize that he dished out lies and gave me "hope" but was ultimately never going to "leave his kids". Through it all though...I am a woman and I have a heart and I have feelings. The regret that I've felt for what I've done to my husband is enormous. The thought of my MM's wife is never far from my mind.
> ...


Two important things, Tzu. First, have you told your husband about the affair? If not, do so. Second, if you have truly ended the affair, what do you care what the MM is thinking or feeling? You sound like you would be inclined to get back with him , if you thought he was hurting, or that your trying to rebuild your self esteem by romanticising the affair. You made sure that we knew that mm was your first , (excuse maybe?) so it seems like you still have feeling s for this man, and want to know if he still has feelings for you. Your continued concern for him , shows that you are still in the affair (fog). Worry about your marriage, worry about regaining your husband's trust, worry about the damage YOU have done, but don't worry about the MM. If you are TRULY finnished with him , then he is no longer part of your world.


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> Tzu, I am wondering if there is any subconcious something to your choice of labels. You call your self the OTHER woman and him the MARRIED man. Yet you are married. So aren't you also a MARRIED woman?


I never know how to label things on these message boards, sorry. Yes, I am still married. My H knows about the affair...he discovered my "secret" email account. D-Day brought about an avalanche. There will be no reaching out to MM ever again. 

The affair has been over for 16 months with absolutely no contact. MM revealed a side of himself on d-day that I never imagined a "man" would reveal. I don't "pine" for him or to know if he still has feelings for me---I've just read so much about affairs and I'm curious to know if a MM can just "click" all thoughts of the OW he was with off the instant things are discovered. It's like not owning up to anything and placing blame on someone other than themselves. I'm feeling what I feel and thinking what I think this far out and I wondered if MM ever do the same??
I've researched all sides of this and I've come up short on the MM's thoughts. My MM blamed ME for pursuing him (he made the first contact, first call, asked me out to lunch and just days prior to the ending told me he "wasn't going to let me just walk away from our relationship")...he also told my husband in a face to face confrontation 2 weeks after d-day that he "just didn't know what he was doing" and "was trying to end things for months" and that he "couldn't believe he let himself go that far" (it was all about him to the very bitter end). My husband found my "secret" email account---he saw everything, he read everything...and to be lied to right to his face was bewildering. On d-day MM told me he "wasn't leaving me" while he was texting and calling my husband without my knowledge.
Same day, only hours later he sent me a goodbye email stating that he was at a "turning point" in his marriage. While have an EA/PA he was at a "turning point". All the sweet things and big hopes that he spoke of and I believed (like a lovesick idiot) were summed up to figuring out that I was used. Believe me, I struggled with what I was doing the entire time I was in the affair...it wasn't as pleasurable and blissful as some make affairs seem. I know the deep, dark, intense fog of the affair.
It's confusing to hear how "miserable" and "horrible" his marriage was and to know mutual friends that agreed that it was as bad as he said it was (his mother and sisters even spoke of how bad it really was)...and to have him speak so condescendingly about his wife was really tough to hear. I wish that in those moments I would've had the strength to tell him that I'M not the one he should be sharing how awful his marriage is with...I should've never thought I was strong enough to accept being "friends" with him again. Eh...I should, coulda, woulda---and I could really dive into those in great depths, but I'm trying to dig myself out of the avalanche that we both caused.
Anyway...I don't "pine" for him. It's hard to sit in disbelief at all he did and said in the ending...it makes me dizzy. He showed me his true colors. I realize how selfish he is. I realize that I held him up on a pedestal that he didn't belong on. I made SO many mistakes myself I get sick at the thought. I don't talk about it much but wanted to see if anyone would answer any questions I had. Sure, I'd love to be able to say that I've just simply moved on. I'd love to be able to say that I'm over it. I can't erase what I've done (as much as I'd like to)...I also can't wipe away the fact that he was someone I loved and a part of my life for a year---it's not easy to just turn it off and not think about it. Feelings don't just go away and although he isn't a part of my life any longer...he was a significant part of my life for a long time so that's what's difficult to deal with. 
I'm not "in the affair fog"---not at all!!! I'm really just asking questions and being completely honest here...


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Tzu68 said:


> It's confusing to hear how "miserable" and "horrible" his marriage was and to know mutual friends that agreed that it was as bad as he said it was (his mother and sisters even spoke of how bad it really was)...and to have him speak so condescendingly about his wife was really tough to hear.


I have read countless affair stories and have never once read or heard of a MM telling the OW that his marriage is great, his wife is awesome, his wife understands him, puts out when he wants her to, offers him emotional support, love and understanding.

Not one time.

So, will you stay married or divorce?


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Ouch! It sounds like he was a big @-hole!

My H has been very clear that his affair was 50/50. Sure she made the first move, but he didn't stop her. Also, when she emailed him a few days later saying she had fun and was "sorry" for kissing him while they were drunk, he didn't say "It never should've happened." Instead, he said he had fun too and not to worry about it. Within in two weeks she was telling him she was falling in love with him....after a handful of emails, a couple of IM, and two in person meetings. Instead of going with his gut that it was too soon to really feel this way, he just went with the flow and said it back. He wasn't thinking at the time, "I want to use her to make me feel good." However, the reason he didn't want it to stop was because she made him feel good. It wasn't for sex, but for the newness and excitement he felt he was lacking in his own self and life.


Sounds like the MM in your case was trying to make you take the full blame, which you can't. He was an active participant. It sounds like you had real feelings for him, but only for the man he portrayed himself to be, not who he really was. Whether or not he was only using you, you'll probably never know. But saving his own skin was far more important to him regardless.


----------



## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

I believe you that you are trying to be honest, Tzu, but if all you said is true, I ask again what do you care? Because IF you didn't care, and if you are truly sorry for the horrible thing that you (not MM) did to your husband, then why do you want to know what MM's feelings are? Because you're curious? C'mon girl, you are old enough to know better than that. If you truly love your husband, and are committed to rebuilding your marriage, then you need to stop this unhealthy dwelling on MM and start to focus on your marriage and the poor choices you made to allow it to get in this bad shape.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Saffron said:


> Sounds like the MM in your case is trying to make you take the full blame, which you can't. He was an active participant. It sounds like you had real feelings for him, but only for the man he portrayed himself to be, not who he really was. Whether or not he was only using you, you'll probably never know. But saving his own skin was far more important to him regardless.


I agree completely.


----------



## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Interesting post, not too much of it devoted to your husband though...


----------



## michelleM68 (Jan 22, 2011)

TZU, you had a connection is why its difficult, an attachment whether your the ow, bs or ws. 

my H ow decided to trash -talk me and complain about me cause i didnt want her around. she was being cheated on by her SO. imagine.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> That's my H's experience. 20 years of obsession more or less followed by some intense hots followed by discovery followed by NC followed by diminishing thoughts to nothing. Poof.


This made me :rofl: eventhough it wasn't meant to be funny.

"Poof."


----------



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tzu68 said:


> I'm not "in the affair fog"---not at all!!! I'm really just asking questions and being completely honest here...


I think you are doing your best. I have never been cheated on. I have no dog in this fight. But from an impassive observer, it looks like you are way more concerned about OM than your marriage, which makes me think yah you still are in fog. Further I think your victim mentality is misplaced. Regardless of what OM did to you, you did to you marriage. I don't say that to be mean. But until you put your focus there, your marriage is in dire peril.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It does sound like you have a lot of feelings for him still from the outside looking in by the way you talk about him and how you feel. And it does sound like you're still in the fog.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Tzu68 said:


> I was the OW for a year. Dated my affair partner in high school...and 21 years later he found me on Facebook.


Is it just me or did everyone miss this part? 

This person was dated the MM 21 years ago when she was in high school. At that time, 21 years ago, the man was married, and she may or may not have been married. Who knows. The thing I'm pointing out is that this was 

21 YEARS AGO. 

I don't mean this mean, but come on!! Twenty-one years and you're still in "agony" over your MM. Homie don't play that. 

If you are really have that much feelings over someone who left you 21 years ago, I would say your issues are WAAAAAY deeper than this board can deal with--see a counselor right away. And before you spout off a bunch of venom, I was a disloyal wife and you know how I got over the OM? All the time, energy, thoughts and emotions I was wasting on someone who didn't love me...I put into MY HUSBAND. Yeah, that guy who's stuck with you for 21 years!! Not the one who dumped you after 1 year because he was committing adultery with you. Send your husband all the googly emo stuff you want to send to MM and get over it already. 

Geez!


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I think she meant they dated 21 years ago, then split up and married different people. He contacted her on facebook a few years ago. They had a year long affair that ended 16 months ago.

Am I wrong?


----------



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Saffron said:


> I think she meant they dated 21 years ago, then split up and married different people. He contacted her on facebook a few years ago. They had a year long affair that ended 16 months ago.
> 
> Am I wrong?


That is what I read as well.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Saffron said:


> I think she meant they dated 21 years ago, then split up and married different people. He contacted her on facebook a few years ago. They had a year long affair that ended 16 months ago.
> 
> Am I wrong?


That's how I read it, too. 



Affaircare said:


> And before you spout off a bunch of venom, I was a disloyal wife and you know how I got over the OM? All the time, energy, thoughts and emotions I was wasting on someone who didn't love me...I put into MY HUSBAND. Yeah, that guy who's stuck with you for 21 years!!


I agree with this. This the only way.... she needs to totally detach and put all the energy towards her husband and marriage.


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

Saffron said:


> I think she meant they dated 21 years ago, then split up and married different people. He contacted her on facebook a few years ago. They had a year long affair that ended 16 months ago.
> 
> Am I wrong?


That would be correct Saffron. Maybe it's just me then...maybe I'm the only person on the planet that has a hard time getting over someone they loved??

The post is about questions in my head---it wasn't meant for me to delve into details about my marriage.

Sorry--NOT "in the fog"--just asking questions, curious to know what OM think after the affair.

I've owned up to my part in the affair...no holds barred with my husband--complete transparency in ALL aspects. I'm not a "victim" and don't have that mentality. I just gave the facts folks.

I guess it's not "right" to have the kinds of questions I have or to even ask on any board in Affairland, huh? You get the snarky know-it-all's and the BW's who think they know everything that their husband is thinking at all times...that are just being "honest" with an OW. 

I guess BW's can excuse their husbands and give them pardons for their behavior and lack of judgement and move on after an affair...it's just that easy I guess.


----------



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tzu68 said:


> I guess it's not "right" to have the kinds of questions I have or to even ask on any board in Affairland, huh? You get the snarky know-it-all's and the BW's who think they know everything that their husband is thinking at all times...that are just being "honest" with an OW.


Whom do you feel is being snarky? As I said, I have no dog in this fight. I gave you my read. My further read is that when people get massively over defensive, time usually reveals that they are feeling guilty. Just a thought.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Saffron said:


> I think she meant they dated 21 years ago, then split up and married different people. He contacted her on facebook a few years ago. They had a year long affair that ended 16 months ago.


Ah! Oh well in that case, my apologies. That is somewhat different then and I misread. 

In that instance although the way to move forward is the same (aka "...All the time, energy, thoughts and emotions I was wasting on someone who didn't love me...I put into MY HUSBAND. ...") I do realize that feelings can linger somewhat, and also can appreciate some wondering. Again, I do apologize for my mistake in misreading. 

I do kind of wonder one thing though--it's been 16 months. That's nearly a year and a half. It's just not healthy to hang on and on and on to a relationship that is over. From what I can tell you have two choices. 1) Continue to hang on and put your thoughts and energy into a MM you can not have and who doesn't want you or 2) Go a new route and build the kind of love and relationship you want with the man you married who DOES want you. In the end you can choose where to put your thoughts and time--and I'd recommend building your marriage.


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> Whom do you feel is being snarky? As I said, I have no dog in this fight. I gave you my read. My further read is that when people get massively over defensive, time usually reveals that they are feeling guilty. Just a thought.


Defensiveness doesn't mean guilt...
I'm feeling attacked for asking a question that I'm sure many others think but don't dare ask on any forum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LuvMyH (Nov 11, 2009)

Has your husband been forgiving and loving to you since D-Day? Or has he held it over your head?

I know you said you didn't want to talk about your marriage, but I'm wondering if you might still be thinking about the MM so much because your marriage hasn't recovered well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I feel for your husband and wish him all the peace, healing, and happiness he can find.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I told my H outright after his affair that if my ex-boyfriend from college was single I'd call him up and cry on his shoulder. Granted I was hurt, angry, and wanted H to hurt.... but of course old feelings and "what if's" are always there when you have really loved someone. Kind of hard not to think about the past on occasion, especially during difficult times.

I was just talking to my H about your story and he wanted me to point out that the MM is choosing between the life he's created and lived for years against the unknown. Plus, divorce can be devastating financially and to destroy everything he's spent years building with his wife seems foolish. Of course he wishes he would've thought about all of this _before_ his affair, but he says selfishness made him focus just on what felt good at the time.

Also, mid-life crisis may sound cliche but oh so true.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry if you are feeling attacked. That is certainly not the intention.

You asked questions, people answered. It's an open forum. You ask us questions, sometimes the board will ask you questions. It happens.



Tzu68 said:


> I guess it's not "right" to have the kinds of questions I have or to even ask on any board in Affairland, huh? You get the snarky know-it-all's and the BW's who think they know everything that their husband is thinking at all times...that are just being "honest" with an OW.


Yes, sometimes you get snarky, compassionate, empathetic, sad, happy -- some will wish you good luck, others may tell you to die in a fire. It happens.

All jokes aside... the only person who knows how he feels post-affair is him. He may think of you and miss you, he may not. He may have flashes of the affair in his mind and feel bad that he hurt you. Or he may regret the affair with every fiber of his being.

All you can go on is what the state of your relationship is now: over. He ended it. So you need to try to get your own closure. And that closure might be accepting you may never get any closure.


----------



## Squiffy (Oct 26, 2010)

> I'd like to know what happens to the MM in the aftermath?? If the affair is discovered and his wife knows...what happens for him? Is the OW someone who just suddenly disappears to him...never to be thought of again? Does the MM feel bad for duping and dumping the OW??


Back to the original question, I'm a BS (I know you didn't want BS opinions but there are a lot of us on this board!), and this is something I wonder about a lot!

After my husband finally 'came out of the fog' 4 weeks post d-day and wrote the no contact letter, I was alarmed at the sudden shift in his attitude towards the OW. He claimed that he felt like he was someone else during the affair, didn't know what he was doing, that he was shocked by his behaviour, and he used some pretty derogative terms about the OW.

This makes me feel a bit strange. If he was so in love with her during the affair (they sent emails professing their love for each other, talked about him leaving me etc), how could he just suddenly dump her like that and 'apparently' switch his feelings off? How could his adoration turn to dislike so quickly?

Maybe he is lying to me about his feelings towards her to make me feel better. On the other hand, it he did manage to switch off his feelings for her so easily, what does that say about what kind of person he is? It seems a bit callous and cold to me.  And almost makes me feel sorry for the OW.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Okay I was disloyal and I'll tell you what it was like for me. 

My H found out and sent the OM a note that basically said, "She is married and I do not intend to let our marriage end without a fight. I'm asking you to end this" and he basically did not want to "deal with all that hassle." At that point I was also thinking "This is wrong, I just can't do this anymore!" so we just did not contact anymore. A little while after that (and seriously I don't remember if it was 3 days or a week) I also ended all contact with every person whom I knew through or because of him or who know of "us" as an "us." So that was completely OVER. 

Even though at that time I had 100% made the decision and was 100% in agreement "in my head"--in my heart I felt bad the first day and maybe for the first few days. I felt sort of numb and just "got through" the days. During the first week, I worked HARD to think of H every time the thought of OM popped into my head. Every time I would have sent a chat-note to OM instead I sent one to H. We worked hard and after the first week I felt a little bit better and on the occasion the thought of OM popped into my head but I just got rid of it right away. 

I can honestly say that I did not pine for him and I purposely tried to just get him out of my thoughts. I also worked very hard to look at him realistically, but more importantly to look at my HUSBAND realistically. I didn't switch off feelings. I just determined to stop them and do my best to point them where they were deserved. Make sense?


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

The thing with my affair is that it didn't end because either one of us made a decision to end it--it ended because my husband found out. MM got scared and ran. He turned into the biggest coward and showed his true colors on d-day.
Six days prior to d-day I wanted to end things and told MM that I was tired of being temporary. I heard the lines that I wasn't just temporary to him and how much he cared about me and didn't want to be without me.
For 2 years when we were teenagers I was the one that he could count on, the one that was always there for him no matter what. I got tired of the cat/mouse game and when I met my H things ended and I moved on. We moved 1,900 miles away and I heard from him once. I was always close with his mom and she said the day I left he came home and sobbed in her arms. That was the night I said my final goodbye to him...the one where he looked at my engagement ring and said "I would've gotten you a bigger diamond". 
Two decades later came the friend request. I thought I was strong...I had my act together...life was "good". My marriage wasn't horrible at all. I was just discontent. 
For months I heard nothing but negative things about his wife. I also heard HIM tell me about the night I left and he said "it was one of the worst days of my life". Oh, I heard so many lies and lines and I bought them all---for him to open up to me and trust me with such intimate details about his life was overwhelming to me. We "clicked"...the sleeping giant that I laid to rest 2 decades before was awakened and I didn't nail things shut and run like I should have. My decision, my problem to deal with now--I totally get that, it's on me, not my H. I always thought about him through the years and heard through the grapevine that he married a gorgeous woman that was a b****. 
The difficult thing to move on from and what I've had a tough time dealing with in counseling is jumping right back into a marriage I removed myself so far from for a year and the loss of someone that I believed in and trusted and felt very connected to emotionally as well as physically.
Affaircare--I totally get your point and I totally agree with you.
Squiffy---those are the exact same questions that run through my brain all the time and the ones I get stuck on. I often wonder about MM's wife with all she knows (she knows what my H knows--which is everything) and how she deals with things. I challenged a male blogger about this one and he said that he told his wife lies to make her feel better---but, he said, in the end what he did ws hurt he more because, like you she was intelligent enough to see past his lies. She wanted the truth. My H knew I loved MM. He would've wondered why I did what I did if I didn't even care about him at all.
The BW got bashed...and I never questioned him on why she went off or why she was angry much of the time until I found out my H was speaking to another woman about our marriage and how devastated it made me feel (yep--I got the whole Karma thing, thank you). A woman doesn't just "go crazy" for nothing. MM made me feel so sorry for him and his life of "misery". I ached for him...then I questioned things and when I asked him why he stays in such a horrible relationship all he came up with is "I'm scared". He was scared to leave his house and didn't want to leave his kids. 
So--if it really was as bas as he made it out to be...I'm happy he's where he's at because he made a choice to be there. 
I need to do what Affaircare said and be more purposeful on getting him out of my thoughts.
I just wish I could stop wondering, but my mind hasn't clicked with that yet. If I told you all about the other crazy things in the ending your heads would spin...


----------



## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Definitely still in the affair "fog". When you talk about being curious, and all the "crazy", things going through your head, don't you realize that this is still the ' fog",talking? Why don't you tell your husband about your thoughts about MM and see if he feels that they are only curiosity. I'm sorry Tzu, but I don't believe that you are completely over your affair, and are not truly remorseful at all. Instead of putting your husband's feelings first, you are still moping about the MM, and still thinking about how YOU feel instead of how can YOU be a better, more honest person, and how YOU can do your part in re-building your marriage. Personally I think you need to see a counselor to discus your issues.


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

Dowjones said:


> Definitely still in the affair "fog". When you talk about being curious, and all the "crazy", things going through your head, don't you realize that this is still the ' fog",talking? Why don't you tell your husband about your thoughts about MM and see if he feels that they are only curiosity. I'm sorry Tzu, but I don't believe that you are completely over your affair, and are not truly remorseful at all. Instead of putting your husband's feelings first, you are still moping about the MM, and still thinking about how YOU feel instead of how can YOU be a better, more honest person, and how YOU can do your part in re-building your marriage. Personally I think you need to see a counselor to discus your issues.


Sorry Dow...but if asking a question and giving anyone who reads some background is "the fog" then I don't think you get what "the fog" really is!! I am NO longer IN "the fog"--but, thanks. My H knows exactly how I feel and what I've been thinking--he actually wonders the same things as I do. Our marriage and the hurts from what I've done make us both wonder if MM and his wife ever experience what we do. I'm not "moping" btw---I asked a question for pete's sake. Sometimes people read into things waaaaaay more than they need to and start spouting things off without knowing the full story or background.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Tzu68 said:


> The thing with my affair is that it didn't end because either one of us made a decision to end it--it ended because my husband found out. MM got scared and ran. He turned into the biggest coward and showed his true colors on d-day.


So what was the plan if it only ended because your husband found out? Were you going to leave your husband? Was the plan to keep it going as long as no one found out? Thing is, it partially ended because MM axed it. Which is why he "got scared and ran" as you said. It's my personal belief that if a man wants to leave his wife to be with another woman, he will, no matter what stands in his way. We see it all the time all over this board. Famous example: Brangelina. And it's not gender-specific either. You can see all across this board women who leave their husbands to be with the OM. 

Your H finding out and exposing it prob did bring to reality a lot of things for both you and MM. Then you had a choice too: work on your marriage or leave your husband. Exposure does change the dynamic of an affair. This is a prime example.



Tzu68 said:


> Six days prior to d-day I wanted to end things and told MM that I was tired of being temporary.


Were you planning to marry him? 



Tzu68 said:


> The difficult thing to move on from and what I've had a tough time dealing with in counseling is jumping right back into a marriage I removed myself so far from for a year and the loss of someone that I believed in and trusted and felt very connected to emotionally as well as physically.


This makes total sense to me. You're having a hard time because it sounds like you're still very much in love with MM.



Tzu68 said:


> I often wonder about MM's wife with all she knows (she knows what my H knows--which is everything) and how she deals with things. .


She probably deals with it the same way your husband is dealing with it. 



Affaircare said:


> During the first week, I worked HARD to think of H every time the thought of OM popped into my head. Every time I would have sent a chat-note to OM instead I sent one to H. We worked hard and after the first week I felt a little bit better and on the occasion the thought of OM popped into my head but I just got rid of it right away.
> 
> I also worked very hard to look at him realistically, but more importantly to look at my HUSBAND realistically.


This is the way to do it :iagree:



Tzu68 said:


> Sorry Dow...but if asking a question and giving anyone who reads some background is "the fog" then I don't think you get what "the fog" really is!! I am NO longer IN "the fog"--but, thanks.


It definitely sounds like you're still in the fog and still in love with MM. The words you use to describe your situation definitely sound like you're still pining over MM and the fact you've barely mentioned your husband does sound like you're still deep in it. You should consider counselling to find out why you're still stuck, 16 months post-affair. The more you keep dwelling, the worse for your marriage. 



Tzu68 said:


> My H knows exactly how I feel and what I've been thinking--he actually wonders the same things as I do. *Our marriage and the hurts from what I've done make us both wonder if MM and his wife ever experience what we do*.


No doubt they are prob dealing with residual effects from the fallout of MM having an affair with you and betraying his wife and family. That is not something that just "goes away." Some couples can deal with infidelity better and faster and eventually get past it, with their marriage coming out stronger, and some couples can't do that it all. It just depends on the couple. Your affair with MM will forever be a black spot on both of your marriages. It's just a matter of how each married couple deals with it that determines the future. 



Tzu68 said:


> Sometimes people read into things waaaaaay more than they need to and start spouting things off without knowing the full story or background.


Tzu... our responses are based on the "story or background" you share with us. So if something else paints a better picture, feel free to share.

It'd be nice if any of the dudes who've had affairs & did not leave their wife for OW on TAM came in here to share so you could get some answers... 

Sending out the bat signal!


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So what exactly is the question? I had an affair, didn't leave my family over that. You can PM me if you prefer.

In my case, it was mostly physical, not emotional. There was never any talk about leaving my wife for her. In the end, it died off because she wanted a "regular" relationship (she was separating at the time I met her), not just a friend with benefits. I understood and accepted that, and stayed friends with her until she found her new match. We still chat even now, but it's much reduced. I let her drive the contact, as I have no desire to make waves for her.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

I know you said that you didn't want BS here, but I have to ask anyway- You say that the affair ended because your husband found out, right? So how can you now come and say that you want to be with your husband if the only reason you cut it off WAS because he found out. I think that's what most here are saying that you're still in a "fog"- see what I mean. I'm not here to bash you in any way either. You also printed this-"The thought of my MM's wife is never far from my mind." Was she in you mind while you were intimate with her husband? Why is it that now that you've been caught, you see the despicable behavior you AND him indulged in- because you did indulge in it, right? Ask yourself this- If I wasn't caught would we still be in such an illicit relationship? If so, it means you still want to be with him, no matter how much you want to tell yourself otherwise. The only reason you both terminated it was because you got caught, nit because of actual remorse.


----------



## findingmyway (May 25, 2011)

TZU68, PM sent to you answering your question, from my perspective.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Actually ahhhmaaaan, it is a little more confusing than you may think, and this may be what Tzu68 is getting at. 

See, during the affair, the way the disloyal thinks is very similar to the way a drug addict would think--in fact that's because sometimes people who have affairs become addicted to the brain chemistry of being infatuated: amphetamines. So rather than thinking, "Here is a rational person in their correct state of mind able to make clear-headed decisions about love and being with someone"--instead envision an amphetamine addict. Would you trust a drug addict to make clear, level-headed choices? OR does a drug addict pretty much make choices based on continuing the fix AT ALL COSTS (who cares if someone gets hurt)? 

In the moment, when you are in the affair, I'm not saying that a person suddenly becomes incapable of personal responsibility. Nope. Just like a drug addict they are STILL responsible for the choices made and for living with the consequences. But when a person is clear-headed and in their right mind and rational and they say "I love you" it means something different than when a person is clouded by affair addiction, out of their mind and irrational! A person out of an affair says "I love you" and it includes things like "I want to treat you in a loving and caring way" "I consider your thoughts and feelings" "I enjoy you" "I will work hard to make a safe, secure home for us and our family", etc. When a person IN AN AFFAIR says "I love you" it means usually "I enjoy the amphetamine high I get from your attention and the subsequence ZING of excitement. That feeling feels like attraction to me." 

Make sense? 

When a sober person says "I promise; you have my solemn word" it likely means that they realize all the potential benefits and costs and do not intend to break their promise. When a blasted drunk person says "I promise; you have my word" it likely means that they want something right now and tomorrow when they wake up with a hangover they will claim they don't remember and will break their promise. Right? 

TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Affaircare said:


> In the moment, when you are in the affair, I'm not saying that a person suddenly becomes incapable of personal responsibility. Nope. Just like a drug addict they are STILL responsible for the choices made and for living with the consequences. But when a person is clear-headed and in their right mind and rational and they say "I love you" it means something different than when a person is clouded by affair addiction, out of their mind and irrational! A person out of an affair says "I love you" and it includes things like "I want to treat you in a loving and caring way" "I consider your thoughts and feelings" "I enjoy you" "I will work hard to make a safe, secure home for us and our family", etc. When a person IN AN AFFAIR says "I love you" it means usually "I enjoy the amphetamine high I get from your attention and the subsequence ZING of excitement. That feeling feels like attraction to me."


That is a perfect way to describe it, AC. Excellent post.


----------



## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

So... what you're saying is that WS spouse is "drunk" of the relationship, right? You know what they say when you speak while drunk- "The truth REALLY comes out." As I said before- This is what you truly feel!


----------



## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

"I'm not saying that a person suddenly becomes incapable of personal responsibility."- This is exactly my point. I'm so sick and tired of people making excuses for their bad behavior. How about some personal accountability for once. We live in an age where every move we make is justified because we need some kind of self affirmation, or what not- What a load of ****. You ****ed up- NOW OWN IT! Then you have the PC police everywhere... and you're justified in your despicable behavior because- "You're only human. GIVE ME A BRAKE. We all have choices. I didn't cheat on my wife, even though I had plenty of chances to do so. Now I'm supposed to take the high road- **** THAT!


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> So... what you're saying is that WS spouse is "drunk" of the relationship, right? You know what they say when you speak while drunk- "The truth REALLY comes out." As I said before- This is what you truly feel!



Hmmmmm, must say I disagree that the truth comes out when you're drunk. I spent many a college night hanging out with loads of drunk people. Don't believe there was a whole lot of truthfulness going on in many of those conversations. Picture drunk guys picking up drunk girls.... lies lies lies and more lies. On both ends.

I know, besides the point. Just knew more lying drunks than truthful ones.


----------



## snowstorm (Nov 3, 2010)

You pose a good question. I believe a MM goes on with his life...taking blows from BS that he deserves after being discovered. I believe he continues to lie about his affair...not being completely transparent. And I believe most BS are okay with this :scratchhead: Does he smile? Go on trips with her? Of course. He did that while having affair, why not continue? I believe he tries to earn trust from BS. Whether it's hell or not at home, he will continue to stay...most likely lay low until he does it again. But it may be years that he continues to walk a chalk line until straying. 
Does he ever forget what he has done? No. Does he ever forget OW? Of course not. Did the OW mean anything to him? Depends. Not enough to stay with her. Did his marriage mean anything to him? Absolutely not. He was caught. A thief is sorry to be hanged, but not sorry that he is a thief. 
During my seperation/pending divorce, I got mixed up in the "I am getting divorce syndrome" of a MM a year ago. I will never understand how a woman that knows her spouse has had an affair stays...yes, I know, many say out of love or investment. How do you love someone that "invested" time with another. Or told another woman "I love you" while making love and staring into their eyes. How does one stay after being bad mouthed by their spouse...and gaslighted. How does one stay when their spouse opened up their soul to another when being married is about being "one...united." How does one stay when their soulmate has a heart to do this? Or to even hurt another woman by lying to her as well. When I discovered his lies, I stepped away immediately. They decided to "repair" their marriage...and I was fine with that. I wanted no part of their life. Yes, it hurt to lose someone I loved. And to be lied to someone that begged me to have faith in them. To trust them with my heart. Until this day, I feel like he died. Like my best friend truly died. But, in death, you move on...and live your life. You are still among the living  I still think of him, but in no way "want" him. I understand your question isn't related to a fog...more or less just curiousity I am sure. I will get flamed for all of the above as I am sure. But, I am so happy to be able to not have the MM in my life. And I feel so unhappy that she still does...I believe that she can do better. I dodged a bullet. Bottom line, in majority of cases their is some factor in their marriage(whether BS or WS) that nudged one to take the cowardly road and stray. In most cases, marriages fight to live for a few years...and sadly disintergrate. Or the spouse may even stray again. It is no easy road for MM or BS that decides to stay.
Always know that until the ink is dry...he/she isn't divorced. 
btw- many BS do stay for the kids...I DO understand this.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

snowstorm said:


> How do you love someone that "invested" time with another.


Probably the same way you did.



snowstorm said:


> Always know that until the ink is dry...he/she isn't divorced.


Very true.


----------



## snowstorm (Nov 3, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Probably the same way you did.
> 
> 
> 
> Very true.


But Jelly...I did not use investment as a _reason_ for me to hang onto him. This is a common statement from BS.

Besides, the time invested with me was "time" that he was supposedly "leaving." Leaving as in...lease in hand walking out of the door...or so he said. Big difference. I never had a life, a yard, a marriage vow with him...to say _I _was "invested." I wasn't the one making promises to someone besides my wife. He chased. He lied to me just like he lied to her.

But he had a life with her. Couldn't a BS say...wow..."I" invested time in this marriage...and he checked out a year ago. When a BS says this it sounds as if she/he is saying "I put so much in this marriage that I am going to make you love me!?"

Investment of time means nothing when love is not there...or in question...or one is cheating. Why would BS say this...while during this "investment" he wasn't truly investing.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

But you did invest time with a married man. Your time. Your time with him was an investment that you made which is why you say _"Yes, it hurt to lose someone I loved. And to be lied to someone that begged me to have faith in them. To trust them with my heart." _ So clearly you "invested" your emotions, heart, and faith. That was your "investment." I'm assuming the end result you wanted from your "investment" was to end up with him. 

It just didn't shake out that way. Because he chose his marriage over his affair. 

Did his wife tell you specifically the reason she hung onto him was solely because she had an "investment?" That there was no love, it was just an "investment?" 

At the end of the day, nobody stuck a gun to his head and made him stay in his marriage. That was a choice he made. All across the boards you can read the infidelity stories. Most spouses don't refer to "an investment" as being the reason why they still want their marriage. It's usually because of love.

Your original statement was: _How do you love someone that "invested" time with another. _

Ask yourself the same question. How did you love a man who had "invested" time with another (specifically the wife he is in a marriage with)?

You said it best when you said _"Did the OW mean anything to him? Depends. Not enough to stay with her."_

Now, I'm not discounting your feelings at all. But you'd be remiss to think you didn't "invest" as well. It's just that your "investment" didn't pay off.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Snowstorm, you're making a lot of blanket statements. Does a thief care that he's a thief? Maybe he does care. Maybe he steals to feed his starving children or support an ailing family member. Every situation is different and until one's motives for their bad decisions are known one shouldn't assume.

I don't agree that a MM's marriage meant absolutely nothing to him. Did it mean more than his selfish wants? No. But absolutely nothing? If that's the case, why even stay? The marriage and BS does mean something to the MM or he wouldn't stick around. 

Perhaps it takes being with someone else to open a DS's eyes and remind him why he loved his BS in the first place. Affairs can open the eyes of the BS too. People become complacent after years together and stop appreciating what they have. Both the DS and BS. It's when the possibility of loosing what you've taken for granted becomes reality that you start to appreciate it.

That being said, I'm sure there are some MM who are just @holes and continue lying and will cheat again. Jury is still out on whether or not my DS is one of them. I like to think not, but only time and his actions will tell. 

Jellybeans is right when she says love is a big reason the BS sticks around. I still love my H. He says knowing that I love him enough to try and rebuild makes him feel more loved than ever. He's never felt so loved by anyone than he does by me right now.

It's still hard and I admit if we didn't have our history or children to consider, I might have walked away right after discovery. The pain is just too overwhelming. Now that a few months have passed, I can see how and where we became weak in our marriage for the A to happen. 

To be honest, I was vulnerable last year and could've been susceptible to an EA. My H had the opportunity and I did not. Would I have made the right choice given the opportunity? I'd like to think yes, but I'm not so sure. I see the slippery slope, the justifications, and the rewriting of history on these threads. I feel it could happen to anyone given the right circumstances.


----------



## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

TZu - please don't feel attacked and stop coming here. There are just as many affair victims who get attacked on their first visits here. This is truly a rough crowd sometimes.

I was cheated on but I think I can offer you fairly simple answer to your question. Men( I am one) are way too logical and analytical and always want to fix things. They are not nearly as emotional as women up to a point where they disintegrate. FOr a man cheating, I think it's first and foremost about the sex. Emotions come into it later. The analytical/logical and fix it side comes out with a vengence when they are caught. Lie, cover their tracks and fix it with their wives before they lose everything especially financially and with a women they probably never stopped loving. You were attractive and exciting to him. But from the logical side, brought only baggage he's have to care for in addition to responsibilities he couldn't walk away from in court. He lied to you about how much he wanted you to keep you in the picture in case he got dumped or in hope that he could still have his candy somehow in the future - at least until his wife dropped the hammer on him. My wife's OM also repeatedly said he loved her. His texts showed all he was after was a piece of a$$ and gave two ****s about her feelings when she got caught. His only concern was that his wife would find out. It wasn't until months afterward when my wife read some their texts before I destroyed them that she could see this and it really pissed her off. To have an affair you have to be only concerned about yourself - not your spouse and not his wife. Both of you are in for one thing initially - sex and the thrill. Love may creep in but it's fantasy that's easily shattered when brought into the light of day, reality and the consequences that go with it. Your OM wsa a bum that was totally self centered. Faced with the firing squad, he pushed you in front and ran.


----------



## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

And - he got the same things you did from the affair though in reverse order. You got someone who showed interest in you other than your husband and made you feel adored. It was nice for you to know someone other than your H could feel that way for you. It made you wanted and needed and good about yourself, that you still "had it". You made him feel attractive and still a man (hoohah). Yours turned into love much faster than his lust did and much deeper.

I hope you are taking this the right way and not as an attack. I think the wayward husbands can probably lend creedence to what I'm saying.


----------



## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

"I spent many a college night hanging out with loads of drunk people."- Yeah, me too. I was a dumb kid. Now we're adults though.


----------



## snowstorm (Nov 3, 2010)

8yearscheating said:


> TZu - please don't feel attacked and stop coming here. There are just as many affair victims who get attacked on their first visits here. This is truly a rough crowd sometimes.
> 
> I was cheated on but I think I can offer you fairly simple answer to your question. Men( I am one) are way too logical and analytical and always want to fix things. They are not nearly as emotional as women up to a point where they disintegrate. FOr a man cheating, I think it's first and foremost about the sex. Emotions come into it later. The analytical/logical and fix it side comes out with a vengence when they are caught. Lie, cover their tracks and fix it with their wives before they lose everything especially financially and with a women they probably never stopped loving. You were attractive and exciting to him. But from the logical side, brought only baggage he's have to care for in addition to responsibilities he couldn't walk away from in court. He lied to you about how much he wanted you to keep you in the picture in case he got dumped or in hope that he could still have his candy somehow in the future - at least until his wife dropped the hammer on him. My wife's OM also repeatedly said he loved her. His texts showed all he was after was a piece of a$$ and gave two ****s about her feelings when she got caught. His only concern was that his wife would find out. It wasn't until months afterward when my wife read some their texts before I destroyed them that she could see this and it really pissed her off. To have an affair you have to be only concerned about yourself - not your spouse and not his wife. Both of you are in for one thing initially - sex and the thrill. Love may creep in but it's fantasy that's easily shattered when brought into the light of day, reality and the consequences that go with it. Your OM wsa a bum that was totally self centered. Faced with the firing squad, he pushed you in front and ran.


Well said 8yrs...you are right.


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

I spent a year blogging...I got it all out and reading the exchanges helped me a lot--it was unbearably painful, but it helped. I guess when you're spun so violently around like I was--trying to make sense of something that never will has been the hardest thing to deal with.

If the lies weren't compounded and the hurts didn't add up so fast on d-day and if he would've treated me like a human being...a woman with a *heart* (yes, betrayed wives--OW DO have feelings)...things may not be so confusing for me now. Flipping feelings on and off like a switch was cruel....and realizing how used I was hasn't helped.

I'm soaking up everything that everyone has posted. I'm not just breezing through and forgetting about it--I'm learning. I'm a work in progress in my healing. I truly appreciate the time everyone has put in to respond.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Another thing to keep in mind Tzu68 is if the MM chooses his wife over the OW, the wife's feelings will have to come first to save his marriage. Even if he does feel badly over how things ended with the OW, he's in no contact and to break it might be the final straw that breaks his marriage.

The night of discovery, while I was just finding out the extent of my H's affair, we were discussing no contact and how he would'nt get a final good-bye. He wondered allowed if the OW would be okay, because he was concerend about how she was handling everything. I tore him a new @hole. Those first few weeks it's like a stab to the heart if the DS even hints at considering the OW's feelings when the LS's feel like live wires ready to trigger an explosion at any moment.

So probably the best situation is when the MM keeps to no contact and says nothing. Some MM might be unusally cruel to the OW to "prove" that they meant nothing to them. Doesn't mean it's true, just that the MM are probably still lying in the moment. My H mentioned getting "closure" a few weeks ago and I asked what he would say if she asked, "Did you really love me?" His respose, "I'd have to tell her no, that it was just the fantasy of something new I loved." He realized then that it was better to leave it alone, he would probably just make her feel worse by finally being honest.


----------



## Tzu68 (May 9, 2011)

Thanks Saffron--that makes total sense. On d-day MM did the switcheroo and immediately started placing blame on me---it was ALL MY fault and he "just didn't know what he was doing". He literally spoke those words to my H's face. It took everything inside of my H to hold back from killing him. Blatant lies instead of just owning up was ridiculous. If he did it to me and my H, I bet he was playing the game with his W. He sent "warnings" to my H telling him "I'm not sure what my W will do...she's going crazy"--it was a scare tactic. He smeared her name so badly to me that I was fearful. His W was searching for answers because he was still playing the game.
I totally get the instant no contact for all involved--it just feels so strange that the person you were so intimate with (not just sexually, but emotionally) vanishes. It's like a death...and being used to relying on that person for comfort was now the cause of major discomfort. That kind of "closure" confuses people--but, I know that any explanations or apologies would be futile. There really is nothing more to say. In the aftermath of an affair OW and OM hold open their hands and have nothing to hold...nothing. And it seems so strange that a relationship would take a hit such as adultery to open the eyes of each spouse to be better. I hate that I was such a lazy ass and strayed instead of just speaking up more and fixing things. The "easy way out"---HA...that "easy way" only wreaked havoc on hearts and minds of unsuspecting people. I'm ashamed.
Your H at least has a heart. I know it stings that he had an affair--but, at least he didn't just screw someone and not care about them--that speaks volumes about his character (I know, I know--adultery is disgusting and wrong, etc..but my affair partner wins ********* Of The Year for the hell he put everyone through and the hatred he showed). So, no contact and a myriad of questions and thankfully a board like this to learn from.
Thank you for your time and logic and help--I seriously appreciate it.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Affairs are mostly fantasy. They usually aren't reality-based. If the MM goes back to his wife or gets divorced and doesn't end up with the OW, my bet is he probably does think about OW, feels bad about the way he dumped/cut the OW off and rejected her, but not enough to want to be with her. He has decided she isn't a part of his long-term plan.

It's one of those cases where "actions speak louder than words." I truly believe that if a man/woman wants to be with someone, they will do anything and everything to make it happen. Brangelina is the perfect example. He did not wait one second before leaving his wife for his mistress. I read once that if a MM/MW doesn't leave their spouse within the first 3 months of the affair, it's unlikely they will at all. 

PBear talked about the OW in his case... said he left his marriage but not for the OW. The OW had an emotional attachment to him but he didn't want a relationship with her.

I don't understand why OW is so shocked if there is a fall out from an affair (it ends) or when the MM stays in his marriage. It's hard for me to comprehend how they feel so wronged and betrayed and used and lied to when in fact, their entire relationship was based on the ultimate betrayal/deception. 

Affairs, in essence, are betrayal. 

How does the OW think the wife feels? If the OW is married or were to marry, would she want her husband to cheat on her with someone? This doesn't absolve the MM -- he is the one who made a vow and chose to have the affair. He is the one who chose to cheat.

The OW is lied to (as the BS is) but that goes hand-in-hand with what an affair is: It's a betrayal. You can't have an affair without betrayal. It doesn't work that way. 

Now, if the OW/OM *did not know * the MM/MW was, in fact, married, that is totally different. But if the OW/OM had an affair knowing that the person was married or found out later and still actively participated in the deception and betrayal, then it's incredulous that they're baffled and confused as to how the MM/MW could do this. How do they think they even had an affair? 

Also, about MM bashing his wife to you, Tzu, not uncommon at all. I have read countless affair stories and I have never heard about the MM saying their spouse was magnificent, wonderful, the best of the best, the perfect woman. Not once. 

In the cases the spouse leaves and marries the OW/OM, totally different ballgame. In those, I believe there is an emotional attachment if it goes as far as leaving one spouse for another, going through divorce and getting married again, despite the odds and how it affects everyone involved (spouses, famlies, kids, in-laws, friends, colleagues, etc). 

The OW/OM have feelings and no doubt some of them fall in love with the MM/MW. But if the affair ends and isn't pursued further, to believe the MM/MW "wouldn't do this to" to them goes against the very nature of their relationship with the MM/MW. Hence, what an affair is: a betrayal.


----------



## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Tzu - I know it hurts to be betrayed when you thought someone loved you and I'm sorry you have to feel that pain. I saw my wife go through withdrawl and while I hated what she did to me, I could see her pain and hated that as well - I did not want to see the woman I loved going through what she was. It was real mixed emotions for me but I still felt empathy for her. I hate to say it, but men who have affairs on their wives and vice versa are too arrogant and self centered - men much more so than women because women do form an emotional bond. With men, all the blood goes south and never comes back to thinking end! I'm sorry the MM was such a heel to you. I hope you are looking inside yourself to understand why this happened, what made you vulnerable to this and trying to find ways to never be in that position again. As someone who was 30 years loyal, married 26, on the road a lot out of the country with numerous drunken and non-drunken chances that were very hard to walk away from but I always did. Now that my wife has had an affair, we have agreed that any time a man approaches her in any way - if it's it's just friendly, she is to let me know immediately. She now understands why I never believed friends of the opposite sex were possible. I can go too far too fast. I never put myself in the position of going out alone with another woman, even with women I worked with. Believe it or not, I had two young Chinese translators come after me together, first with a dinner invitation and later with a lunch invitation to one of their apartments with the promise of a great afternoon. I drove them off telling them how great my wife was and much I treasured her and was proud of her. I NEVER discussed problems my wife and I were having with any other woman - that is the first step toward disaster and comiserating. So I hope you are building walls around yourself and looking inward. Making a commitment to being 1000% honest with your husband. Please don't ever rip his heart out again, divorce him first.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I agree 8years that it's crucial to keep yourself out of dangerous situations. I used to talk to my H about it, but he never really believed me that it was such a big deal. Now he gets it. 

H catches himself now when he's noticing an attractive woman acting a tad too interested in him. He says it's totally different than before, now it's like alarms go off in his head saying "Beware-danger ahead!". Before, if an attractive woman showed a little interest, he encouraged it. Maybe smiled and engaged her a little more. The man was full of insecurity and any attention he received was a surprise and a boost to his ego. With his A, it was all about having a woman fawn over him. The PA portion was actually minimal, he craved the verbal attention much more. Before his A we joked that my H was the "woman" and I the "man" in our relationship. He always craved the emotional connection more than me. Here you'd think most guys would be thrilled that I'd rather watch tv after sex rather than snuggle. Not my H. Like it's been said before, every situation is different and nothing should be taken for granted or assumed.

Tzu- thanks for not running away from this thread. It's actually comforting to know that not all OW's are unremorseful. Maybe my H's OW does have a heart, but sadly I think she's too young and immature to really learn anything from this experience. I'm convinced she'll do it again until she finally get's whatever it is she's searching for with these affairs. Until she starts looking inward for what she feels is missing from her life, she'll never be happy. Sounds like you've done some soul searching and self realization since your A. That's crucial to personal growth and finally finding happiness within yourself. Same goes for us LSs!


----------



## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Great post Saffron!


----------



## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

"at least he didn't just screw someone and not care about them--that speaks volumes about his character"- Huh? Yeah... it tells you what a ROYAL douche-bag he was. This is the lamest thing I have ever heard. OMFG... So you mean to tell me that if a cheater displays genuine emotion to affair partner- they're stand-up people. UN****INGBELIEVABLE! Do you know how atrocious that sounds? It seems to me that you're still hung up on this guy, and can't seem to get over that you were just a piece of ***** for him. WAKE UP! Sorry, but this really set me off.


----------



## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

I'm really sorry for you, Tzu, you still don't get it. You still believe that AP is a good person, and still have feelings for him, but I mostly feel sorry for your husband, what is he getting? A loyal , loving, honest wife? No... Someone who still is not giving all of her love and attention to him, and still is thinking about the OM. After my wife's EA, she moved mountains to show herself as the kind of wife a man could be proud of. She has never in thought, word or deed showed the slightest interest in co-worker since.


----------



## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

I guess she's pretty much done posting on her own thread. What a joke.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Tzu,

2 things for you to etch forever into your mind:

1. Betrayal begets betrayal.

2. Most OM are sc*mbags.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Tzu68 said:


> From blogs, to forums to books--you can read a ton of things about what happens to the Other Woman after an affair and the devastation, pain and the horrendous feeling of being used she experiences.
> I'd like to know what happens to the MM in the aftermath?? If the affair is discovered and his wife knows...what happens for him? Is the OW someone who just suddenly disappears to him...never to be thought of again? Does the MM feel bad for duping and dumping the OW??
> It seems to me that many MM pay a price for a time and then get on with their lives while it takes the OW many months to years to get over the ending of the affair.


Tzu - your story is frighteningly similar to mine. I've got a thread on here about this same thing. I can tell you 1. that I did feel bad about leaving the OW a mess 2. that it has taken work to stop thinking about her - I focus on my wife, and 3. that you aren't going to get a lot of sympathy from the BS here. In my experience they have very little patience for the WS doing anything other than instantly vanquishing the OM/OW from their mind. I can certainly understand this but it may be a little easier said than done. 



Jellybeans said:


> I have read countless affair stories and have never once read or heard of a MM telling the OW that his marriage is great, his wife is awesome, his wife understands him, puts out when he wants her to, offers him emotional support, love and understanding.
> 
> Not one time.
> 
> So, will you stay married or divorce?


Jellybeans - I hate to break your streak but I actually never bad mouthed my wife to the OW and spent a lot of time telling the OW how wonderful my wife is. Does that make my whole EA even a little more sick and twisted - probably but it is what it was.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I should add before I get ostracized that completely vanquishing the OW/OM is unquestionably the right thing to do and what all of us WS should do.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Jellybeans - I hate to break your streak but I actually never bad mouthed my wife to the OW and spent a lot of time telling the OW how wonderful my wife is. Does that make my whole EA even a little more sick and twisted - probably but it is what it was.


Yeah it does add a layer of ? to your EA. But then you also mentioned you only did it for "fun" so that made it atypical as well. The thing is you didn't have to talk badly about your wife to her. You showed OW through your actions that your wife wasn't #1 at the time, and that you were willing to throw it away by continuing to engage OW, even after your wife found you out. So right then and there, OW saw you as fair game, she saw a man who wasn't into putting his marriage first and she could play with him and have an EA.

I am happy to know you and your wife are working it out and you're committed to not doing it again.



morituri said:


> Tzu,
> 
> 2 things for you to etch forever into your mind:
> 
> ...


Too true. OM/OW do not respect the spouse's marriage. Though how can they if the spouse doesn't respect their own marriage? It's a crap situation all around.

It just goes with my way of thinking: if you don't respect yourself, nobody else will.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Yeah it does add a layer of ? to your EA. But then *you also mentioned you only did it for "fun"* so that made it atypical as well.


In hindsight I really flubbed that post. It was more fog than anything else - something I hadn't identified and a concept I was unfamiliar with when I posted that. Doesn't change anything though. It was still a lousy thing to do regardless. 

Back to the OP's thread.


----------

