# Female Dominant (Sexual) Relationships? How normal?



## LetItHappen (Apr 30, 2015)

Is anyone out there in a more gentle or kind or normal flr? 

I was perusing Amazon tonight for some reading material that might make my relationship even hotter and I stumbled upon this: How to Set Up a Female Led Relationship and The Mistress Manual: Female Dominance

Although I'm not interested in something like this long term I think it might be fun to take turns being explicitly dominant in the marriage and having the other follow for a while. 

With that being said, when I looked into the subject of female dominance on google everything seemed either humiliating or basically reversing physiological sex roles (pegging with a strap-on). Different from say Are You a Loving Dominant? For Male Led Relationships, which I'm probably going to pick up.

Now, I will admit that I have very little experience in d/s relationships, but I know of the DDLG movement and other male dominant lifestyles that don't revolve around verbally humiliating or physically abusing the female submissive. One could even argue that many (especially religious) vanilla relationships are male led both in and out of the bedroom.

Is anyone out there in a female equivalent of this? Does such a thing even exist? Now I'm really curious.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

How do you define normal? My normal may be very different from yours.

Yes, a female led marriage does exist. From my limited experience, the female led marriage comes about through a sexual kink that both participants enjoy and want. 

There is a member here at TAM, though I think she might be banned, who promotes a female led marriage done through a sort of coersion/manipulation and not expressly discussed and agreed to. This is not a consensual relationship and I personally feel that makes it abusive. It's not consensual because she admits that she simply took over control of everything, little by little, until her husband didn't even have access to their money. If this had been done by a husband to his wife this would CLEARLY be abusive manipulating control.

I think the trouble with the female led marriage, unless expressly desired and agreed to by both husband and wife, is the matter of respect. A man who is submissive to his wife (unless they both get off on that dynamic) does not garner the respect she must feel toward him. It can sometimes feel like the wife is parenting the husband, and if this is not her kink she stops sexually desiring her husband.

However, if they both agree that this dynamic turns them on and they BOTH desire it, it can work just as well. Just as some women become sexually aroused at being dominated, so can men. When the male and female take turns being the dominant partner, it's called being a switch. Sometimes the male leads and sometimes the female leads. Again, if agreed to by both, it can work.

There is another member here, though he doesn't post too often, who is in a female led marriage and they are both very happy with it. He says he enjoys how turned on his wife gets in dominating him. Their dynamic was something they discussed at length and specifically agreed to, and he agreed to it because it is his wife's kink and it totally turns her on. She doesn't dominate him sexually. She demands that he dominate her sexually and if he doesn't sexually dominate her well enough, he gets punished. That's how they worked it out so they BOTH are happy.

The motto to remember is safe, sane, and consensual. As long as you have all 3, you're good to go!


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

It is vital that both of you are communicating and laying out expectations, what i have seen in my limited voyeuristic perspective, are healthy female lead relationships and ones in which it turns into a cuckold and the man is subjective to abuse and humiliation and ends up serving her and other lovers...that is extreme and yet it happens sometimes at the consent of the husband some times not. i do not believe any healthy relationship should debase either party but that is just me. But and this is really important the moment you see that she lose respect for you or you lose respect for yourself you need to stop and talk.


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## Resu (May 26, 2015)

If I may comment here if I am uderstanding this topic correctly it does seem to touch one one of the irksome strands of TAM concensus.

Is this topic about a specific consciously agreed role play arrangement or about gender role based power balance in a realtionship in general?

If the latter I have often got the impression that TAM blandly reflects a sort of American Judeo Christian patriarchal outlook as being naturally right.

I am sure there arre many progressive cultures where domestic work, reponsibility and income are more evenly disrributed and where relationships may be more balanced. My reading of the foregoing posts and other stuff on TAM is that this would destroy sex lives.

However for my part I am very aware of being in a relationship where my wife is vey much the dominant partner but if she heard me say that it might upset her and she might refute it. I do feel that little instances where you are routinely trampled make it hard to imagine a sexual desire for that aspect of the person. I take it the love bond or sexual thing is a glimmer from a greater inner self that touches. It is the loss of that touch that chills you slowly. As if degraded experience slowly extinguishes the light of hope. 

A darkened window is still there. Often a warm room lies hidden behind it. There is a sense that the one I loved is still there and may still be loved even if by another even when the one I have known has killed the connection. Perhaps she was busy and did not see the one I loved within her at all.

Maybe love is too good for people and if it has touched us at all we should just be grateful and remeber that another may once have reached it through us. Kisses stale once certain still taste the memory. Yet if I am just this man all husk and no kernal maybe I could never live up to what she made glow. It is not gone but just deeper in winter safe and waiting.

What is dominated MUST still grow so dominance is doomed and dooms itself?
Perhaps that harms the dominator or frees them of that need? I wish I knew!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Resu said:


> If I may comment here if I am uderstanding this topic corrctly it does seem to touch one one of the irksome strands of TAM consensus.
> 
> Is this toapic about a specific consciously agreed role play sort of things or about gender power balance in general in a realtionship?
> 
> ...


That was extraordinarily well put, poetic even. You are a very eloquent writer!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Bugged said:


> Agree.
> 
> it's not clear to me why a man is supposed to respect a submissive woman. while a woman cant' respect a submissive man.
> 
> ...


Every time I see a man here complain that his wife does not initiate or does not show enthusiasm in bed, I think: male submissive. 

Jmo.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think its important to separate "play" dominance from "real" dominance. Wearing stiletto heels and a riding crop in the bedroom is completely different from controlling a marriage. Real dominance runs the risk of being abusive.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think its important to separate "play" dominance from "real" dominance. Wearing stiletto heels and a riding crop in the bedroom is completely different from controlling a marriage. *Real dominance runs the risk of being abusive*.


Dominance is often just another name for leadership. If one partner is the leader and the other partner willingly follows, then both parties are in agreement and it's not abuse.

Abuse is using mental or physical cruelty to force obedience from someone who otherwise isn't interested in obeying.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

jld said:


> Every time I see a man here complain that his wife does not initiate or does not show enthusiasm in bed, I think: male submissive.
> 
> Jmo.


Does everyone really fall into the dominant/submissive spectrum though? Can't some people just like to have an interested partner without it being some kind of power dynamic?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> Does everyone really fall into the dominant/submissive spectrum though? Can't some people just like to have an interested partner without it being some kind of power dynamic?


I think there is a power dynamic in every relationship, and certainly in marriage. Everyone has a dom score, your natural dominance on a scale from 1-100. If your female partner's is higher or too close to yours, it is going to be a problem. We see this all the time on TAM.

Unless, of course, she is a domme by nature. In that case, for her to be happy, she needs to have a higher score than yours, so she can comfortably dominate you. And you obviously have to be comfortable with this, too. If you are not, you likely need a partner with a lower natural dom score than your own. That will be easiest.

It is too bad people are not educated a bit on power dynamics before marriage. There is a lot of helpful info there.


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

jld said:


> Every time I see a man here complain that his wife does not initiate or does not show enthusiasm in bed, I think: male submissive.
> 
> Jmo.


Interesting. I never thought of it that way....heh.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I can accept that a power dynamic exists in all relationships to one extent or another, but it seems a bit of a broad brush stroke to label somebody one thing or another based on wanting a spouse to occasionally initiate sex.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> There is a member here at TAM, though I think she might be banned, who promotes a female led marriage done through a sort of coersion/manipulation and not expressly discussed and agreed to. This is not a consensual relationship and I personally feel that makes it abusive. It's not consensual because she admits that she simply took over control of everything, little by little, until her husband didn't even have access to their money. If this had been done by a husband to his wife this would CLEARLY be abusive manipulating control.



LadyMisato. I believe she's still around.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
It can be a fuzzy line. My mother in law completely dominated my father in law by becoming terribly unhappy / upset whenever she didn't get exactly her way. He couldn't stand to see her miserable, so he did whatever she wanted.

One can argue that he didn't stand up for himself, but the net effect was him being emotionally abused long term. When on partner cares about the happiness of the other, and that is not reciprocated, there is a power imbalance that can lead to abuse.

There are of course also people who are happy to be led. 





Fozzy said:


> Dominance is often just another name for leadership. If one partner is the leader and the other partner willingly follows, then both parties are in agreement and it's not abuse.
> 
> Abuse is using mental or physical cruelty to force obedience from someone who otherwise isn't interested in obeying.


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## Resu (May 26, 2015)

Post removed. Fid not add amything.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Bugged said:


> why the famale partner and not the partner? Why can't this be the other way round..I know I seem dumb but I don't understand this...do you foster patriarchy jdl? I'm asking because marriage is still the basis of most societies... (in Europe it's completeley declining though)


Read the rest of my post. If the woman is a domme by nature, she needs a man who is a male sub by nature. Otherwise they are not going to be happy together.

My husband (who is from France, btw) says most women, even those with high dom scores, will submit to a man with a higher score. The trick for them is finding a man with a higher score. They may not be satisfied without one.
@Fozzy: I think it is on a scale. If you have a dom score of 45, and your wife's is 37, and you both want a male-dominated marriage, you are fine. But if your wife dies, and you remarry a woman with a dom score of 55, and you both want a male-dominated marriage, I think you will have trouble. You would have to up your dom and she would have to lower hers, and that can be challenging in the long run. We all tend to revert to our natures in times of stress. And stress is pretty likely to happen, at least at times, in a LTR.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> It can be a fuzzy line. My mother in law completely dominated my father in law by becoming terribly unhappy / upset whenever she didn't get exactly her way. He couldn't stand to see her miserable, so he did whatever she wanted.
> 
> One can argue that he didn't stand up for himself, but the net effect was him being emotionally abused long term. When on partner cares about the happiness of the other, and that is not reciprocated, there is a power imbalance that can lead to abuse.
> ...


Did he see her as the dominant in the relationship? Did she see herself that way? Were they both okay with that?

I think there has to be a misuse of power for there to be abuse, not an imbalance. If there was just an imbalance, then I would not say it was abuse. Unkindness, for sure. But not abuse, imo.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Bugged said:


> How can a dominant woman be satisfied submitting, if she does it means she's not dominant?:scratchhead::scratchhead:
> 
> I think I'll just drop the subject...it's too complicated for me
> >


It depends on her dom score. Rather than seeing a label as an absolute, like Fozzy said, you can think of it on a scale from 0-100.

And it is just an idea my husband has. I am sure there are some dommes who would never submit to a man, ever. Maybe their score is 100.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Bugged said:


> mmmmhhh
> Sorry but I dont' think it's very logical..if a woman is dominant it means she wants to 'dominate' and if she's straight, it means she wants to dominate a man. If she 's dominant she can't be satisfied being dominated...
> but again..I'm not at all sure what we're talking about here...mine is a very egalitarian relationship so I find it hard to translate these concepts in rl.


I think you are arguing that there are absolutes. I think that is interesting, but I think more in terms of scores. I don't think all dominants have the same amount of dominance. Jmo.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I suspect he felt henpecked and trapped, though he didn't complain. I don't think she thought in terms of dominance, just wanted as much as she could get. Whether she consciously controlled him through emotional outbursts, or just had outbursts when she didn't get what she wanted wasn't clear. 

I remember when he got her a beautiful diamond ring for Christmas. birthday. She got terribly upset with him and wouldn't say why for days. Finally she let him know that he should have known to give it to her on Christmas eve so that she could show it to her friends at dinner.

She would never ask for anything, people just had to guess what she wanted, and face days of sulking and outbursts if they guessed wrong. When we went out to dinner, she would say she didn't care where we went, but would create a scene and make the meal miserable if we didn't go where she wanted. 

She was a pretty horrible person, but he stayed with her their entire lives, and he was with her when she died. Sadly his freedom didn't last long, he died soon afterwards. 


A completely different example: I know a couple who had always enjoyed some BDSM activity. Over time though the husband's dominant interest increased until this was the only type of sex he wanted. The wife was OK with it as an occasional game but felt more and more like she was being pressured to do things she really didn't want'. The change was so slow though that she never felt she could leave. He would become upset when they didn't have sex the way he wanted, so to avoid conflict she catered to his kinks.

Technically it was completely consenting - safe word and all. She had her own job, could easily leave whenever she wanted. But she felt trapped by emotion? love? tradition? - and put up with with a situation she didn't want for a very long time. 


In each of these cases the "sub" person has the power to change things but doesn't. I still think though that this is abusive. 


So, some power imbalance is fine, some is abusive. I think you need to look at each particular situation. 







jld said:


> Did he see her as the dominant in the relationship? Did she see herself that way? Were they both okay with that?
> 
> I think there has to be a misuse of power for there to be abuse, not an imbalance. If there was just an imbalance, then I would not say it was abuse. Unkindness, for sure. But not abuse, imo.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Bugged said:


> Agree.
> 
> it's not clear to me why a man is supposed to respect a submissive woman. while a woman cant' respect a submissive man.
> 
> how come that they (men) often want their SO to initiate and take charge?


That's an answer the ladies would have to provide, but in the majority of cases, that's the way it works. 

On the second part, its like my cousin who is a cowboy down on a south Louisiana ranch would say, "I want the horse cutting the cattle, but I want to be holding the reins."


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Bugged said:


> Well my problem with scores is that..unless they can be scientifically measured..are like the alpha/beta traits...
> I mean it's an explanation that always works because ...it's not an explanation..example:
> 
> A man acts alpha
> ...


You are right; it cannot be scientifically proved. It is just an idea to describe what might be happening. To the extent it is useful, great. If not, then feel free to ignore.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I suspect he felt henpecked and trapped, though he didn't complain. I don't think she thought in terms of dominance, just wanted as much as she could get. Whether she consciously controlled him through emotional outbursts, or just had outbursts when she didn't get what she wanted wasn't clear.
> 
> I remember when he got her a beautiful diamond ring for Christmas. birthday. She got terribly upset with him and wouldn't say why for days. Finally she let him know that he should have known to give it to her on Christmas eve so that she could show it to her friends at dinner.
> ...


I think we have to look at the relative strength and weakness of each person in the relationship. Not all relationships are composed of two equally capable people. If the stronger person willingly takes on the responsibility of a relationship with a weaker person, and leaves them, I think that might prove more damaging in the long run than staying in the relationship and shaping the other person's attitude and actions in a healthier, more positive direction. 

And one might say they have some sort of moral responsibility to do that, even if it is as simple as holding up a mirror to their partner, refusing to enable them (by enabling, I mean the less vulnerable partner helps the more vulnerable partner do something that ultimately harms the more vulnerable partner, something the more vulnerable partner could not do without the help of the less vulnerable partner), but not abandoning them, either.

It is not like I think there are right and wrong ways of seeing this, btw. It is just interesting to look at it from different angles. Challenges our thinking, especially in terms of absolutes (the idea that certain behaviors are automatically abusive, for example, instead of just unhealthy).


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

I haven't read through this thread entirely, but from a lot of what I have read on the internet usually men will beg their wives to be more dominant or in other situations men will pay mistresses to dominate them... Then you scratch your head and read about "topping from the bottom" which I have to think is the case in many FLR.

Only once did I read about this guy that had a girlfriend into FLR. Problem was she only enjoyed (really enjoyed it according to the poster accounts) doing things to him that cause him genuine discomfort or emotional distress. He really struggled to get her to dominate him in ways that he really desired and enjoyed, but she never would. He wanted advice for anyone who could help him, but everyone else told him that he was living the dream. To be honest I think this was the only account of a sincere FLR that I have ever read about among the 1000s of similar things I read when in my nefarious moods. 

Good luck, and be careful what you wish for!

Badsanta


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## longhair2908 (Sep 15, 2015)

I have been married for 10 years and we have a Female led Relationship. I am very submissive by nature and my wife dominant by nature. So when we met in college something just clicked with us. At the time neither one of us at heard the term FLR but both of us wanted that type of relationship from the beginning. You might think the key to this working is that I am willing to submit to whatever she wants but the key is my wife knowing how to be responsible for another person. It took her many years to figure out how to be comfortable being dominant and punishing me when necessary while still loving me. Once she figured that balance out our relationship blossomed and has evolved. I am not her slave by any means but sometimes I am punished like a slave because I lost focus or respect for her and needed to be punished. When I am being punished I, of course, don't want it but understand why I am being punished and accept it.

I am a stay at home dad which made since for a marriage so we can outwardly express our relationship more without being as offensive to other people as they seem to understand more because of my role in the household.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

longhair2908 said:


> You might think the key to this working is that I am willing to submit to whatever she wants but *the key is *my wife *knowing how to be responsible for another person*.


Truth.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

LetItHappen said:


> Is anyone out there in a more gentle or kind or normal flr?
> 
> I was perusing Amazon tonight for some reading material that might *make my relationship even hotter*....
> 
> ...





richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think its *important to separate "play" dominance from "real" dominance*. Wearing stiletto heels and a riding crop in the bedroom is completely different from controlling a marriage. Real dominance runs the risk of being abusive.


Dear LetItHappen;

Your initial post is a little confusing for me, as you indicate you want to explore something (femdom and Mf DS relationships) to make your relationship hotter, but you don't want to do this long term and yet you refer to lifestyle concepts. (P.S. I think that the Queen/Knight thing is the FLR gentler concept you might be looking for) (P.P.S. typical mild role playing power exchanges can include teacher/student, boss/employee, police officer/criminal, etc.)

You need to figure out what you want: lifestyle change or role playing with occasional role reversals. 

If role playing, then talk to your wife (and assuming she is OK with it) start with an hour or two at a designated time and an agreed upon scene plan with a safeword for each if something crosses an unstated boundary. You can gradually build up to longer timespans

If you want lifestyle, then that is something totally different and will require a lot of education and practice on the part of you and your spouse. Lifestyle changes can be tough, because people like to avoid change. Familiarity of roles can provide comfort and safety. Even in a role playing environment that can be unsettling, but much more so if one partner (say your spouse) is afraid of change and isn't sure if you will get "hooked" on the role being tried out.

I am not a submissive in any sense of the word. My wife is not a femdom. However, my wife is a very strong willed person. She has a doctorate, is the supervisor of many people, etc. We have an interesting and constantly changing power dynamic between us.

I will get all David Schnarch on you. Marriage is very hard and requires each partner to strecth, self-soothe, grow and reach a compromise on every aspect in the marriage over the life of the marriage.

For the first decade of our marriage I paid all the bills and directed where our saving went. Later in our marriage my wife started paying the bills and figuring out how much discretionary money we had. Now she pays the bills, I do the taxes and we jointly determine where to invest our money. Some guys like financial domination by a woman. It can be a form of D/s. I think it is better to share some critical marital roles. Sex is also a critical marital role. Marital roles change over time and need to be constantly renegotiated.

What part of being dominated or dominating seems to race your motor? Is it power control by her or you? Is it sexual domination (who initiates, who determines the position or what happens, who determines who gets to climax)? Is it the corporal punishment that excites you? Is it not having to be responsible for anything or responsible for everything? 

Figure out what aspect it is that seems to excite you, then do some introspection on it. Once you understand your own motivations and expectations, then set up a time to talk to your wife. Even for role playing you need to figure out what are the limits on the roles you will be playing.

In your discussion tell your wife you have some feelings that you would like to explore with her and see how she feels about them and if any of them sound interesting to her or if they cross some kind of boundary that she has. Don't be surprised if your spouse doesn't want to do this kind of role playing game. If so, accept it and figure out something else that will race both your motors.

Rather than reading books on D/s relationships, I would suggest reading/researching role playing based on what you have posted.

Good luck to you. The mind is the largest sex organ and it can be easily tricked into pleasure.


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## Tony Conrad (Oct 7, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I can accept that a power dynamic exists in all relationships to one extent or another, but it seems a bit of a broad brush stroke to label somebody one thing or another based on wanting a spouse to occasionally initiate sex.


I understand where you are coming from. Some men do find it erotic to be spanked but this doesn't mean the dynamic of the marriage changes as though it was a dom and a sub. A lot of men who lead in marriage like this but are embarrassed to confess it because of being seen as being subject to the wife when it is not the case. Things can happen in the bedroom where both consent but the marriage relationship is not changed. It is just a sex thing. Wives are happy to confess it but husbands cannot because of being seen like some of those subjective sissies one reads about on some websites.


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