# Reflections and an Update



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Even though I have been here for years I am not sure if posting this here makes sense but here it is. Since I joined this forum I’ve have learned so much about myself, my upbringing and my relationship with my W. I stumbled upon this site because there was something terribly wrong in our marriage and I had absolutely no grip on what it was. At this point I am quite convinced my W had an EA in the very least and possibly a PA. The red flags have been there all along but I have never found any hard evidence. I have experienced every emotion during this time frustration, anger, fear, humiliation, despair with some good old fashioned rage mixed in on occasion. 

Back in October I called her out for taking another weekend trip with her girlfriends after I had requested that she not go (she had already been on two trips with them that year). She stayed home and we had it out. I brought up a great deal of the crap she had pulled on me and said to me over the past four years. She, of course, acts like it never happened, vaguely remembers it or it was no big deal. While I am talking she goes on offense and brings up that I threatened to leave her 28 years ago. While this is true I felt it was an odd time to bring up that particular bit of history. 28 years ago I was complete a$$, not much of a husband and just an ok dad. Honestly much of it had to do with her lying to me about her past relationship that she really has not let go of to this day. Me being the nice guy that I am I rolled over and apologized. I was numb and let the blame shifting take over. She went on to say some things that I am still trying to reconcile. 

About a month later I heard her on the phone talking to her BFF referring to our October conversation and stating that there was a time in our marriage when she needed me but that was no longer the case. I sat in my chair and let that marinate for a bit. Much went through my mind and it was as if the past years of pain and disrespect flashed past me. Did I get mad? I think there was a bit of that for a split second but then came the flood of disappointment and I would say that has been the overwhelming emotion ever since. 

This was the first Valentine’s Day in 30 years that I gave her nothing. No card, flowers, jewelry etc. I did take her to dinner and we had a nice time but I could not stomach making that kind of a gesture. She got nothing for me which was fine.

Honestly I think she is perfectly content. She did whatever she did and got away with it. She knows I was on to her but she was a step ahead of me with technology and I have given up. The good news is I will be starting up with IC this month with a therapist I respect deeply. I am looking forward to her helping me sort out my thoughts and perspective. 

I do appreciate those of you that have reached out to help. I cannot imagine where I would be emotionally if I could not fall back here for support. That being said this place makes me sad. Every time I read a new thread where a spouse is lost because they have no clue what happened to their relationship it pierces me to the soul. For everything I have learned here I know I still have no clue regarding human nature particularly when it comes to relationships.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Sorry to hear that RC 

Did you confront her about what she said to her friend?


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Fozzy said:


> Sorry to hear that RC
> 
> Did you confront her about what she said to her friend?


I did not Fozzy. Honestly I am worn out emotionally. It will be something that I will discuss in IC of course. I am looking forward to a unbiased professional opinion at this point on how I approach all of this. I worked with her several years ago and have a great deal of respect for her counsel.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

RClawson said:


> The good news is I will be starting up with IC this month with a therapist I respect deeply. I am looking forward to her helping me sort out my thoughts and perspective.


That's not stepping up. You need to address the issue with her until you settle the issue. I'd look into a VAR and attach it to bottom of the seat of her car. I'd would also talk to her about not needing you anymore and what she meant about that. She had an affair, maybe it's time you had one to??


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> I'd would also talk to her about not needing you anymore and what she meant about that. She had an affair, maybe it's time you had one to??


Talk yes.
Affair no.

Tit for Tat games NEVER do anything good for a marriage.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

RC--how long do you suspect this affair has been going on, and do you think it still is?


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

jb02157 said:


> That's not stepping up. You need to address the issue with her until you settle the issue. I'd look into a VAR and attach it to bottom of the seat of her car. I'd would also talk to her about not needing you anymore and what she meant about that. She had an affair, maybe it's time you had one to??


Been down the VAR road before and came up empty with anything affair related. Your last sentence gives you no credibility.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Without going into any detail whatever happened is over. I suspect she was in contact with her old boyfriend and they hammered out their past history. She has to know that if I found out they were in contact at all our marriage would end.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

If you're convinced the affair happened, then lack of proof isn't ever going to ease your mind. For you, the affair happened. Period.

Do you think you can sustain a marriage with that in your mind for the rest of your life? With no way to ever have closure on the matter?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Fozzy said:


> If you're convinced the affair happened, then lack of proof isn't ever going to ease your mind. For you, the affair happened. Period.


:iagree:

As one of my counselors says, knowing in our heart, even without CSI scientific evidence, is still knowing. In many cultures it is considered every bit as good as photographic proof.

An alternative approach is to presume it happened and make your decisions based on that.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Thor/ Fozzy,

Thank you for your thoughts. They deserve consideration. Fozzy I know I cannot live the same way I have been forever because I am quite confident in time despair would lead to something quite worse. 

Thor I will be interested in hearing what my therapist has to say about my certainty that something took place.

I do have a daughter that is at risk and she has finally gotten in therapy and is doing great. Her goal is to get herself straightened out so she can move out in the summer and start her life. She is headed in that direction and I cannot do anything that would minimize her goal. If she does not then I will have to begin to consider my own emotional health.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

RClawson said:


> Thor/ Fozzy,
> 
> Thank you for your thoughts. They deserve consideration. Fozzy I know I cannot live the same way I have been forever because I am quite confident in time despair would lead to something quite worse.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you have a good plan. Definitely do what you need to do to support your daughter's recovery. I'm glad you're also pursuing IC in the meantime. Once your daughter is on her feet, don't beat around the bush--take whatever action you need to take to restore your life.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

To RC and others - it seems that RC has reached the end of the road. From what he is saying it sounds as if he has given all he has to give, there is nothing left. His wife no longer needs him.

I hope seeing an IC will help him plan and cope with leaving, for that is what I think, deep down, he wants to do.
He's been hurt too much for there to be any hope of reconcilliation.

RC...chin up and good luck.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Askari there is always hope but I do think intimacy has been so damaged that it is likely beyond repair. She is very content with our life that to me has been friend zoned. 

You are correct about the hurt. I think about her attitude towards me over the past 6 - 7 years, the things she has said to me and I know if I said similar things to her she would not be here now.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm curious, what do you think your wife would say about your marriage and how it got there?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm curious, what do you think your wife would say about your marriage and how it got there?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well she should have her middle name changed to Wisk because she is a classic rug sweeper. 

I think she would tell you it is "great". I think she would tell you it has always been "great".

I think a good charade is just fine with her. Me........not so much.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

RClawson said:


> Thor I will be interested in hearing what my therapist has to say about my certainty that something took place.


For you, it did take place. If we had a time machine and video camera we could make a true factual discovery, but we can't do that. But in your heart you believe it, so it is so.

What I mean by that is your ground rules include it as a fact that something happened. Your future actions and your future reactions will be based on that reality.

As an example, I am in pretty much the same boat as you with much circumstantial evidence but nothing irrefutable. If I laid it out, 99% of TAMers would say yes there were probably 2 or 3 affairs, maybe more. I believe 2 or 3 is probably what happened, but I will never know unless someone comes forward with evidence. My wife denies anything happened.

A while ago I got a blister on my lip in a place I never have before. There was tingling, too. Three years ago I tested negative for herpes 2 but positive for herpes 1 (the cold sore version of herpes). I haven't had a cold sore for at least a decade. 

My emotional reaction is that this could be herpes 2 caught from my wife. See how that works? If I didn't believe she'd strayed I wouldn't have even thought it a possibility this was anything but a regular cold sore.

So for you it is reality that your wife did stray even though you don't have the photos or emails to prove it.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

RClawson said:


> Well she should have her middle name changed to Wisk because she is a classic rug sweeper.
> 
> I think she would tell you it is "great". I think she would tell you it has always been "great".
> 
> I think a good charade is just fine with her. Me........not so much.


I think my wife would say the same thing. Probably for two reasons; 1) she thinks everything is fine. 2) if she admitted things were not good it would mean she would have to face up to it and deal with it.

There are alot of women out there for who what people SEE and what people THINK of them is far more important than real life.
For them a decent car, nice home, gym membership, golden retriever, two successful children etc etc is FAR more important than what goes on behind the front door or even bedroom door.

It takes a 'strong' woman to amdit to having marital problems and an even stronger one to admit that SHE is partly (50%) to blame.

We all accept that having an affair or extra marital sex is 'wrong'.
If a wife denies her husband sex because he is smelly, bad breath, a slob etc etc you can understand why.

But if a husband is a generally good husband (no one is perfect!) buys his wife flowers, helps round the house etc etc
...but his wife rejects his sexual advances - basically denying him what is for him the way he shows love and bonding.....he is far more likely to 'wander' than a husband in an emotionally and sexually fulfilling marriage.

It doesn't make it right....but I can understand why men (and indeed women) seek solace outside the marriage.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

If she said that there was time when she needed you, but not anymore, that would suggest to me, that at one point she had felt abandoned by you. You said you were not that great husband and dad at the beginning. You did grow up and mature, but chances are it was too late. She has already withdrawn, accepted that you were not part of her emotional life and had created her life without you.

I do not know your whole story, it might be completely off the mark. It is just based on that one sentence you've quoted.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> If she said that there was time when she needed you, but not anymore, that would suggest to me, that at one point she had felt abandoned by you. You said you were not that great husband and dad at the beginning. You did grow up and mature, but chances are it was too late. She has already withdrawn, accepted that you were not part of her emotional life and had created her life without you.
> 
> I do not know your whole story, it might be completely off the mark. It is just based on that one sentence you've quoted.


Your right Wanda you don't know. I was not great husband because I found out she was not honest with me about her past relationship before we got married. I am not rehashing this story again on this site. I got my act together and I would say I atoned for that brief moment in our marriage.

Irregardless of that you don't have a solid marriage for 23 more years, treat your spouse like crap for 3 straight and then one day say well it was because you threatened to leave me 25 years ago. 

It was weak sauce and I let it slide because of my nice guy ways. The time is coming soon when this will all be dealt with once and for all. 

By the way the word "abandoned" is a gross exaggeration.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

RClawson said:


> Even though I have been here for years I am not sure if posting this here makes sense but here it is. [...] That being said this place makes me sad. Every time I read a new thread where a spouse is lost because they have no clue what happened to their relationship it pierces me to the soul.


I have to be honest with you... I've only been here a couple of weeks, mainly because my future fiance reads and contributes to this forum quite a bit, and she often shared postings with me which we would discuss on our various drives, etc. and would occasionally link them to me in email to read and we would often discuss.

I've often asked her why she bothers, because, as the holder of a psychology degree, being very level-headed about relationships and what it takes to make them work, etc., I would normally fully expect this forum (well, not the men's forum specifically, but the site in general) to poison her view of relationships, as a significant portion of the traffic are people lamenting about how sh*tty their relationships are, etc. 

IMO, it is very easy to become jaded about relationships reading this forum, because all you really see is the negative, and never the positive, about the type of loving relationship you can experience with someone you connect with at a deeply personal level.

This is why I don't take anything seriously, especially myself, when it comes to stuff I post or comment about, and why I limit my reading/posting activity to this forum exclusively, where collectively us men and b*tch and moan about not getting enough blow-jobs. 

The way I look at it, that b*ching and moaning about not getting enough head isn't all that much different than what men b*tch and moan about in person with their other male friends.




> While I am talking she goes on offense and brings up that I threatened to leave her 28 years ago.


Yes, this is very common. Women are like camels when it comes to things you have done in the past to "hurt" them. They will store events for centuries (if they had lifespans that long) and bring them up when necessary as a self-defense mechanism to feign outrage that you are calling them out on their ****. Slather some Androgel on your balls and throw it right back in her face with "I should have, because I'd be banging a hot supermodel today rather than looking at an Italian sub in your fat-rolls during sex".




> For everything I have learned here I know I still have no clue regarding human nature particularly when it comes to relationships.


99% of the postings my SO and I have discussed from this forum fall into the category of "no-brainers". When the facts of the discussion are laid out, the course of action is clear, but then, it always is when you are emotionally removed from the situation at hand. When you "live" though it, emotion clouds your judgement. The unfortunate reality is though people will allow themselves to be used as door-mats, if they don't have a spine and stand up for themselves.

No matter what you may think about relationships, you can really never know, because relationships take two people, and unless you are Mr. Spock, you cannot mind-meld with your partner and really know what is going though his or her mind. This is why when I find the magnetic GPS tracker attached to the underside of my truck, I ensure it is not an IED or other explosive device before simply replacing it and going about my otherwise normal day.

Instead, all you can do is watch, observe, and draw conclusions from your partner's actions. Based on those conclusions, you need to determine the course of action which is best for yourself and what you want in your life. If your partner isn't going to fulfill those needs, then she or he is not the right person for you.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

RClawson said:


> Your right Wanda you don't know. I was not great husband because I found out she was not honest with me about her past relationship before we got married. I am not rehashing this story again on this site. I got my act together and I would say I atoned for that brief moment in our marriage.
> 
> Irregardless of that you don't have a solid marriage for 23 more years, treat your spouse like crap for 3 straight and then one day say well it was because you threatened to leave me 25 years ago.
> 
> .


Was it really that solid for 23 years? You both started on the wrong foot, and had to go from there. Her saying she doesn't need you anymore, it does indicate that there were issues that were bothering her enough to emotionally check out. Not saying that she was right, or that you did something wrong at this point. But apparently from her point of view there was something, and that something was probably swept under the rug.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> Was it really that solid for 23 years? You both started on the wrong foot, and had to go from there. Her saying she doesn't need you anymore, it does indicate that there were issues that were bothering her enough to emotionally check out. Not saying that she was right, or that you did something wrong at this point. But apparently from her point of view there was something, and that something was probably swept under the rug.


I am reading her statement differently. To me she is saying that he has outlived his usefulness to her, that she stuck around all these years because he provided for her and the kids. Now due to whatever circumstance (older kids, she has a good job, whatever) he is of no use to her any more. It sounds like she was stuck on someone else for a good number of years, and that RC was not really who she wanted to be with but he served a purpose for her. 

RC, that statement is more than enough to propel you out the door.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> I am reading her statement differently. To me she is saying that he has outlived his usefulness to her, that she stuck around all these years because he provided for her and the kids. Now due to whatever circumstance (older kids, she has a good job, whatever) he is of no use to her any more. It sounds like she was stuck on someone else for a good number of years, and that RC was not really who she wanted to be with but he served a purpose for her.
> 
> RC, that statement is more than enough to propel you out the door.


:iagree: Amen!


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