# This is my situation and is hearting me a lot



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

Hello everyone, new to the forum but I have read many post before. Anyhow so here is my situation and look for some feedback....

1 - 2011 wife goes back to work after having our third child which at this point is 1
2 - New boss is assigned to her areas, he seems to be very cruel to the team, wife starts having issues to the point of crying at home
3- I support her try to provide as much advise as possible
4- She calls me several times from a branch close to her saying that she had an argument with her boss, she feels really bad and came over this branch to talk to her co-worker as she doesn't know what to do
5- one day I take her shopping for work clothe to make her feel better, I've done this before many times
6- her schedule starts changing leaves very early, comes home late
7- phone calls are taken outside
8- the thing that trigger my full blown suspicion was the day of my older son birthday, the family meet at a restaurant to celebrate and she showed up an hour late - late conference call with her boss
9- not to mention that she is a woman that is not much into make up, hair and all that, well she started doing her make up every morning, ironing her hair etc.. she was getting up very early to be able to do all this....which I love at the moment as I was thinking that is a positive change for her, anyhow......
10- September holiday comes around, is a Monday, we are walking down the mall together and she get a call from her co-worker I mention before (the other branch manager), when she picked up the phone and saw the number I saw her face changed completely, then she said that he called because she left her glasses in his office, really? (call to say that on a holiday?)
11- from there on things when down hill until we went to counseling, after many session where we talked about many things I basically I told the therapist that I didn't care about what happen I wanted to move on and see how we can save the marriage, this was around the November time frame, how wrong I was  
12- so we worked on getting things better, some of the behavior changed, however, I did notice underwear went missing, now looking back, what happen about 4 months before this happen is that my wife came to me with a sex book that had games, it catch me complete by surprise as she is not that type of person but I though it was a great way to get closer.....now I realized that once what ever happened end it, she was not longer interested in the games, as of today she is not interested.......was all a diversion??? I read that many times when woman have EA have more sex with their H to avoid suspicion.....
by Feb of 2012 she gets fired from the bank right at the same time I get a promotion... few months later we moved to another state do to my promotion.

Anyhow, to make the story short, she started working again since the beginning of 2013, all same issues that happen previously with her old boss were happening again.....I could not believe how someone can be so unlucky.........then she get transfer to another bank, a few weeks back I start noticing small hints that I didn't like, for example, bank open at 10 AM, by 8:20 she is at the bank - not sure why - according to her is because of the work she has to do - then two day's ago I find a txt message in her phone from one of guys that work for her (male 25 years old) telling her "not sure if you heard me but I will miss you too ms V", she replies, " I did" he replies "Coo", NOW here is the context of the txt messaging -- he left the bank at 3:00 PM, he was going on vacation, his text was sent 30 minutes after he left the bank, this guy started working at this branch about 3 weeks ago and before that he used to go to the branch to assist on a regular bases until he apply to be full time in her bank...........after I saw this I could not hide my emotions, never could, next day, her phone was password protected, I call her on that, once the phone was unlocked all txt message were deleted...... what do you think??


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## SaltInWound

Serial cheater

DNA the kids.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

Thank you for the reply, DNA means do not abandon the kids?, sorry not big on acronyms


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## anchorwatch

She means do a paternal DNA test on your children and yourself, to prove you are their father.


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## anchorwatch

Your wife has loose boundaries with other men(OM). She is looking for attention from them. More than likely cheating too. Why? 

Don't you have enough self esteem, not to allow this in your marriage? How much attention do you give her? How many hours a week do you spend together, without interruptions?

Trust your gut. Hide a VAR in her car and monitor her calls. Check your phone bills and verify the times and numbers called. 

Move your thread or re post in the infidelity area of the site. You will get answers there on what to do, from those that have been in your shoes.

Start reading...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

No More Mr Nice Guy



BTW, Welcome, sorry about why you're here. You will find the help to sort this out, one way or another.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> Your wife has loose boundaries with other men(OM). She is looking for attention from them. More than likely cheating too. Why? Don't you have enough self esteem, not to allow this in your marriage?
> 
> Trust your gut. Hide a VAR in her car and monitor her calls. Check your phone bills and verify the times and numbers called.
> 
> Move your thread or re post in the infidelity area of the site. You will get answers there on what to do, from those that have been in your shoes.
> 
> Start reading...
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739
> 
> Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"
> 
> A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
> 
> No More Mr Nice Guy
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, Welcome, sorry about why your here. You will find help.


Thank you for your reply, I know I have only two reply as of now but this helps, the fact of getting some elses perspective as at time I had question my self and said that maybe it was me. I guess you tent to do this as is something really hard to accept, some that you though is your partner and is there to help you can do this to you.........

Thank you for the clarification on the acrynoms, regarding your last question, I do have self esteem, but to be honest when I think about the kids is where it hurts the most.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> Your wife has loose boundaries with other men(OM). She is looking for attention from them. More than likely cheating too. Why? Don't you have enough self esteem, not to allow this in your marriage?
> 
> Trust your gut. Hide a VAR in her car and monitor her calls. Check your phone bills and verify the times and numbers called.
> 
> Move your thread or re post in the infidelity area of the site. You will get answers there on what to do, from those that have been in your shoes.
> 
> Start reading...
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739
> 
> Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"
> 
> A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
> 
> No More Mr Nice Guy
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, Welcome, sorry about why your here. You will find help.


Not sure what happen with my previous post but it never showed, thank you for reply and input. I though I would need authorization from her as well to get A DNA test performed on my kids, is this the case?

Regarding your last question I do have self esteem, however when I think about my kids I tell my self I can put up with this until they get older, but from time to time I feel I can't take it any more.

How do I move the thread?


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

thank you anchorwatch for your post, to answer your questions, why? not sure why as I believe I try to do everything I can to make it a positive environment, I complement her many times during the week of how good she looks and how much I'm attracted to her, which is true not sure what else to do, regarding self esteem the issue that I have are my children the though just hurts, not sure what a VAR is so I will research.....I did start checking the phone bills, however, I think at this point she has told him to only call her at work when he is away so it won't show on the records or use the company email.......and thank you for the links....


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## anchorwatch

Your welcome.

VAR is a voice activated digital recorder. Pick one or two up at Walmart, BestBuy or another electronics store. Put it under the seat of her car with commercial grade Velcro. You may catch her speaking to her OM or a confident about what she's up to. 

She may use her phone or computer to communicate too (emails, text, messaging apps and programs and fbook). You could use a key logger on the computer. Spy ware programs are available for cell phones, they will record calls, text msgs and give gps locations. There are programs that can retrieve deleted text form phones too. These methods may verify if anything is going on or not. If your suspicions still persist or you want more, hire a PI. 

DO NOT CONFRONT HER AGAIN WITHOUT SOLID PROOF. Your early confrontation has her hiding it better. Again sorry your in this position. 

I understand you wanting to shield your children from all of these behaviors, but it's not you who put them there. Don't be a victim for them, that's not a good example. A good example is a dad who stands up for himself and leads his family, so they don't have to exist in a bad relationship another day. 

How does she react when you show her admiration and express affection? Does she act the same? Do you put her needs first?

Read the book 'No More Mr Nice Guy' I gave you first... 

Here's the site. Take the quiz. See where you stand.
No More Mr. Nice Guy


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## LongWalk

Do you have sex anymore?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

LongWalk said:


> Do you have sex anymore?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


as of two days ago right before this happen...she is having her period now, however, she asked as nothing has happen.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

"How does she react when you show her admiration and express affection? Does she act the same? Do you put her needs first?"

some time she smiles, some time she doesn't like it o reacts as I was bothering her.............Yes I do, however I have needs as well correct? this is not a one way street.....


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## LongWalk

How old are the both of you?
This WAW/WW problem seems to get bad at around the 7th year of marriage according to some posters.


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## tracyishere

If she is deleting texts and putting passwords on her phone then she has something to hide. Just Saying


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## anchorwatch

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> some time she smiles, some time she doesn't like it o reacts as I was bothering her.............Yes I do, however I have needs as well correct? this is not a one way street.....


Correct, it's not a one way street. If she doesn't respect you, she sees your affection as clingy and pathetic. So why would you continue to show her affection without her reciprocation? 

Read the book!


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

I just want to say that for a couple of days now I have read many post and is incredible how similar the stories and I found strength in the information provided on how to handle the situation.........I complete shift in side of me to the point that I almost don't have any anxiety at all, as a matter of fact a feel good in the sense that I can see the light at the end of the tune and how life can be changed for the better. I would still like to see what other folks have to say........one thing that I do realized that the steps I will be taking are not so much about the latest episode (txt messages) but for what happen in 2011 as that is the pattern that I'm seen in, she has seen a change in my attitude and today for example she did landry all day and stayed upstair...what do you make of this?


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## tracyishere

What is your plan?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

We had a conversation/argument last night as asked her the meaning of txt message and how inappropriate it was....as you can imagine the typical answer was provided and how she was tired of having to live like this, basically I told her that things don't just happen out of thin air. To every action there is a reaction. anyhow, after going back and forth and her telling me that there was nothing wrong with her and that it was all me, basically she said, prove it!! and left.....what that tells you? What I found strange is how calm I was


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## anchorwatch

That tells me she doesn't care how her behavior hurts the man she has vows with. 

That tells me she has no respect for you. Unless you're just a paranoid controlling jealous husband (cheater speak).

That tells me she is so self empowered and confident, that you won't do anything to rock the boat, she's willing to engage in a showdown with you. 

Will you blink?

YOU SHOULD HAVE GATHERED MORE EVIDENCE BEFORE YOU CONFRONTED HER AGAIN!

Put a VAR in her car now. She will be reaching out to the OM and confidants about your suspicions. 

Where did she go?

180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> Where did she go?
> 
> 180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group


To sleep....


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## anchorwatch

You don't have any evidence that something is going on. All you have is disrespectful behaviors. Be patient. Work on that.


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## Shaggy

So basically you suspect she was having an affair in her old job, possibly with her boss or with the other bank manager. That the OM was fairly possessive of her and would deliberately interrupt days off and family events to show his hold over her?

That the book of sex games wasn't entirely for you? That she'd loose underwear when she'd be hooking up?

I assume that the make up and care about her appearance stopped when she got fired? Or did it continue?

And now she's working again but her hours are start way before the bank opens and end way after it closes.

As I recall at a bank the manager needs to open and close the money for the tellers and to verify that the tellers balances are accurate at the end of the day.

I don't recall that taking more than a 1/2 hr extra at the end of the day, and a few minutes in the morning to open.

1. Has she started to put extra effort into her appearance again?

2. Have you verified that she's really at work in the morning and after closing?

3. Tracking her car via a GPS, or a phone with a GPS that you turn off the ringer and leave in her car for a few days might be interesting.

4. A voice activated recorder in her car and a pen recorder in her purse could be great tools to see what's going on.

5. Can you get her call/txt records from the cellphone provider? You should look at who she's contacting, but also the time of day.

The sex games book - what sort of games were they? Was it simple stuff for couples to do with each other , or was it more along the lines of things for the woman to do to please her man?


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## alte Dame

The red flags are all there and if you want to confront her such that you actually gain something from the confrontation, you need real evidence. Get the VAR as others have suggested and listen to it after a week. You will probably have your evidence at that point, at which time any confrontation will have her on the defensive rather than the other way around. You will also probably have some truth on which to proceed with any decisions you need to make.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

Replying in bold below...lots of questions  



Shaggy said:


> So basically you suspect she was having an affair in her old job, possibly with her boss or with the other bank manager. That the OM was fairly possessive of her and would deliberately interrupt days off and family events to show his hold over her? *No just the other bank manager....no solo I mention the call, not sure if when we we out and she was checking her phone it was because of this.....at that point I had no suspicion
> *
> That the book of sex games wasn't entirely for you? That she'd loose underwear when she'd be hooking up? *No to the first question, the book as for me to keep me happy and not wondering, as I said, I've heard many people talk about how the sex increases during and A*
> 
> I assume that the make up and care about her appearance stopped when she got fired? Or did it continue? *stopped*
> 
> And now she's working again but her hours are start way before the bank opens and end way after it closes. *mostly start time about two hours...*
> 
> As I recall at a bank the manager needs to open and close the money for the tellers and to verify that the tellers balances are accurate at the end of the day.
> 
> I don't recall that taking more than a 1/2 hr extra at the end of the day, and a few minutes in the morning to open.
> 
> 1. Has she started to put extra effort into her appearance again*? slowly.....*
> 
> 2. Have you verified that she's really at work in the morning and after closing? *sometimes....*
> 
> 3. Tracking her car via a GPS, or a phone with a GPS that you turn off the ringer and leave in her car for a few days might be interesting.
> 
> 4. A voice activated recorder in her car and a pen recorder in her purse could be great tools to see what's going on.
> 
> 5. Can you get her call/txt records from the cellphone provider? You should look at who she's contacting, but also the time of day. *I've already done this in 2011, that is how it exploded and did that as well now.....
> *


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

To be honest my intention is not to gather evidence to destroy her, that is not my purpose at all. Is trying to find the truth and move on.....



anchorwatch said:


> You don't have any evidence that something is going on. All you have is disrespectful behaviors. Be patient. Work on that.


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## anchorwatch

*Re: Re: This is my situation and is hearting me a lot*



lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> To be honest my intention is not to gather evidence to destroy her, that is not my purpose at all. Is trying to find the truth and move on.....


That should be your goal.

Have you ever discussed MC with her? 

You never told us what her thoughts on the state of the marriage are?


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

alte Dame said:


> The red flags are all there and if you want to confront her such that you actually gain something from the confrontation, you need real evidence. Get the VAR as others have suggested and listen to it after a week. You will probably have your evidence at that point, at which time any confrontation will have her on the defensive rather than the other way around. You will also probably have some truth on which to proceed with any decisions you need to make.


Thank you for the tip, I don't focus just on the physical aspect of the infidelity, I also focus on having no respect for me nor the family, when you don't feel that you are a unit and you have to care for everything otherwise things don't get done for the kids, is really, frustrating. As I said I'm not looking to destroy her or anything like that, I guess is trying to understand WHY


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## i hear you

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> Hello everyone, new to the forum but I have read many post before. Anyhow so here is my situation and look for some feedback....
> 
> 1 - 2011 wife goes back to work after having our third child which at this point is 1
> 2 - New boss is assigned to her areas, he seems to be very cruel to the team, wife starts having issues to the point of crying at home
> 3- I support her try to provide as much advise as possible
> 4- She calls me several times from a branch close to her saying that she had an argument with her boss, she feels really bad and came over this branch to talk to her co-worker as she doesn't know what to do
> 5- one day I take her shopping for work clothe to make her feel better, I've done this before many times
> 6- her schedule starts changing leaves very early, comes home late
> 7- phone calls are taken outside
> 8- the thing that trigger my full blown suspicion was the day of my older son birthday, the family meet at a restaurant to celebrate and she showed up an hour late - late conference call with her boss
> 9- not to mention that she is a woman that is not much into make up, hair and all that, well she started doing her make up every morning, ironing her hair etc.. she was getting up very early to be able to do all this....which I love at the moment as I was thinking that is a positive change for her, anyhow......
> 10- September holiday comes around, is a Monday, we are walking down the mall together and she get a call from her co-worker I mention before (the other branch manager), when she picked up the phone and saw the number I saw her face changed completely, then she said that he called because she left her glasses in his office, really? (call to say that on a holiday?)
> 11- from there on things when down hill until we went to counseling, after many session where we talked about many things I basically I told the therapist that I didn't care about what happen I wanted to move on and see how we can save the marriage, this was around the November time frame, how wrong I was
> 12- so we worked on getting things better, some of the behavior changed, however, I did notice underwear went missing, now looking back, what happen about 4 months before this happen is that my wife came to me with a sex book that had games, it catch me complete by surprise as she is not that type of person but I though it was a great way to get closer.....now I realized that once what ever happened end it, she was not longer interested in the games, as of today she is not interested.......was all a diversion??? I read that many times when woman have EA have more sex with their H to avoid suspicion.....
> by Feb of 2012 she gets fired from the bank right at the same time I get a promotion... few months later we moved to another state do to my promotion.
> 
> Anyhow, to make the story short, she started working again since the beginning of 2013, all same issues that happen previously with her old boss were happening again.....I could not believe how someone can be so unlucky.........then she get transfer to another bank, a few weeks back I start noticing small hints that I didn't like, for example, bank open at 10 AM, by 8:20 she is at the bank - not sure why - according to her is because of the work she has to do - then two day's ago I find a txt message in her phone from one of guys that work for her (male 25 years old) telling her "not sure if you heard me but I will miss you too ms V", she replies, " I did" he replies "Coo", NOW here is the context of the txt messaging -- he left the bank at 3:00 PM, he was going on vacation, his text was sent 30 minutes after he left the bank, this guy started working at this branch about 3 weeks ago and before that he used to go to the branch to assist on a regular bases until he apply to be full time in her bank...........after I saw this I could not hide my emotions, never could, next day, her phone was password protected, I call her on that, once the phone was unlocked all txt message were deleted...... what do you think??


It seem you have a lot issues that have never been resolved. 1 You have to man -up and not be so passive. Tell her that if she is involved with someone to be honest and admit it. Force her to lie or tell the truth. if she lies you now know you can't trust her to tell the truth about anything.Also you want to know what is missing in the marriage what she is seeking outside the marriage. perhaps you are boring and not happy to be with.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> That should be your goal.
> 
> Have you ever discussed MC with her?
> 
> You never told us what her thoughts on the state of the marriage are?


Yes we had MC 2 times and basically is all about her and her needs and why she would have to explain anything to me.......that is base on what she believes that she does everything that she needs to do. As you can see we have very basic differences, I mean, to the core...... One of the things that she accepted is the fact that she doesn't like to argue and because of that she stays quite and doesn't say anything, when you have issues, this is really hard as you are trying to engage the other person to understand what is happening and the other person wouldn't say anything...how do you resolve anything that way?

Her way of ending any argument is saying you are right (for me) and I'm wrong (for her)


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

i hear you said:


> It seem you have a lot issues that have never been resolved. 1 You have to man -up and not be so passive. Tell her that if she is involved with someone to be honest and admit it. Force her to lie or tell the truth. if she lies you now know you can't trust her to tell the truth about anything.Also you want to know what is missing in the marriage what she is seeking outside the marriage. perhaps you are boring and not happy to be with.


 Hello Ihearyou, 

I agree with your first sentence.....I have asked this question many times (what is missing or what she would like to be changed) and usually I don't get much back....except the last time that she wanted me to do more around the house and I said NO as I've already do a lot, so I told her to cut back on playing candy crash and she could collaborate more.......Otherwise I will be doing eveything..... as of now provide the income, clean some, volunteer at my kids sports events (coaching, etc....) wash them, grocery shopping, etc.....


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## tracyishere

Sounds allot like how my H was. Immature. And in her mind she probably blames you for her actions. My H was always the victim and life was cruel to him. Everything happen to him, nothing happened because of his own actions. 

It's been a long road, but basically I have to call him on it every time he plays the victim. I have to challenge his thought processing and explain that this happened because of this. Sure, he got angry and defensive, being the victim allowed him to not take any responsibility. So ofcourse he wanted to remain that way. But, I always kept on it, and now, he catches me doing it and I get the lecture!! Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

If you are in a fault state then gather evidence but if not get your ducks in a row and file. If you want tell her you are taking her for a polygraph and see her reaction to this. you may get your answer that way.


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

tracyishere said:


> Sounds allot like how my H was. Immature. And in her mind she probably blames you for her actions. My H was always the victim and life was cruel to him. Everything happen to him, nothing happened because of his own actions.
> 
> It's been a long road, but basically I have to call him on it every time he plays the victim. I have to challenge his thought processing and explain that this happened because of this. Sure, he got angry and defensive, being the victim allowed him to not take any responsibility. So ofcourse he wanted to remain that way. But, I always kept on it, and now, he catches me doing it and I get the lecture!! Lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


how did you manage through the process to stay together? did you made concessions.... can you please elaborate, I'm really interested


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## LongWalk

Read Bagdon's thread ASAP. You must 180 and improve yourself. This is not East but you Will come out better, regardless of what becomes of your marriage. At this point disengage from all relationship talk. Do not act needy, beg, please or cling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Easy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

LongWalk said:


> Read Bagdon's thread ASAP. You must 180 and improve yourself. This is not East but you Will come out better, regardless of what becomes of your marriage. At this point disengage from all relationship talk. Do not act needy, beg, please or cling.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WOW thanks long walks I read the initial threads and some comments from various pages... good information. Thank you I will continue reading that thread. Currently purchasing the book no more mister nice guy


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

LongWalk said:


> Easy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


miss this one, easy what????


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## tracyishere

I had a little help from my psychologist friend but basically when he would say something irrational like "the house made him depressed." I would have to get him to explain that thought."How does a house make you depressed?" He would then have to think about it and reply with something that was more realistic like "when we purchased the house, you pressured me into buying it, since then I've never been happy." Then I would challenge his actions. " so you chose to buy a house with me even though you didn't want to?" And his response would something like "I did it for you." Then I would say " wow, that is really thoughtful of you, thank you, however, had I known how upset this would make you I would've never asked to purchase the house!" And that is where he would get his aha moment. Had he communicated better in the beginning he never would have felt this way. 

It's all about communicating. This was a huge problem for us as he was like your wife and would get angry and irrational or shut down completely. Talking was more harmful than helpful. But, he liked to text. So that is how we communicated throughout his affair. It really worked for us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

tracyishere said:


> I had a little help from my psychologist friend but basically when he would say something irrational like "the house made him depressed." I would have to get him to explain that thought."How does a house make you depressed?" He would then have to think about it and reply with something that was more realistic like "when we purchased the house, you pressured me into buying it, since then I've never been happy." Then I would challenge his actions. " so you chose to buy a house with me even though you didn't want to?" And his response would something like "I did it for you." Then I would say " wow, that is really thoughtful of you, thank you, however, had I known how upset this would make you I would've never asked to purchase the house!" And that is where he would get his aha moment. Had he communicated better in the beginning he never would have felt this way.
> 
> It's all about communicating. This was a huge problem for us as he was like your wife and would get angry and irrational or shut down completely. Talking was more harmful than helpful. But, he liked to text. So that is how we communicated throughout his affair. It really worked for us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for sharing!!:smthumbup:


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## happyman64

lovelife

You have to stop confronting your wife without evidence.

Why was your wife fired from her 1st bank? 

Her actions and nonaction should show you how little she respects you.

How old are you two and your children?

Are your communications with TAM secure?

Is her phone a personal phone? If yes do you have access to the bill?

HM64


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## anchorwatch

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> WOW thanks long walks I read the initial threads and some comments from various pages... good information. Thank you I will continue reading that thread. Currently purchasing the book no more mister nice guy


I gave you a pdf version in my first post. Here it is again. 

No More Mr Nice Guy


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

happyman64 said:


> lovelife
> 
> You have to stop confronting your wife without evidence. *Agreed*
> 
> Why was your wife fired from her 1st bank? *According to her, her boss was an ass, asking for unreasonable things, that she could not the deadlines, etc.....Things that usually a boss would ask *
> 
> Her actions and nonaction should show you how little she respects you. *Agree and is what I came to realize *
> 
> How old are you two and your children? in our late 30's, 4, 6 and 14
> 
> Are your communications with TAM secure? Yes
> 
> Is her phone a personal phone? If yes do you have access to the bill? Yes is a family plan...cheaper
> 
> HM64


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## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> I gave you a pdf version in my first post. Here it is again.
> 
> No More Mr Nice Guy


Thank you so much....

you know I was looking at the bill today and the activity on the phone when to a complete stop, wonder why? I'll keep on my 180 and read the book......


----------



## tom67

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> Thank you so much....
> 
> you know I was looking at the bill today and the activity on the phone when to a complete stop, wonder why? I'll keep on my 180 and read the book......


She has a pay as you go phone then.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

BINGO here is one of the things from the book I agree, "Nice Guys often try to be different from their fathers. Many Nice Guys report having unavailable, 
absent, passive, angry, philandering, or alcoholic fathers. It is not unusual for these men to make a 
decision at some point in their lives to try to be 180 degrees different from Dad." my dad married 4 or 5 times ........ This book is me man......I started laughing after the third page.....is great


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

tom67 said:


> She has a pay as you go phone then.


Could be!


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> I gave you a pdf version in my first post. Here it is again.
> 
> No More Mr Nice Guy


Page number 40 and is unreal the similarities in same of the cases......I will keep reading this afternoon and provide more feedback but I've already found several things that I need to change for ME!!!!!!:smthumbup:


----------



## anchorwatch

It's eye opening, isn't it? You start to realize that your own behavior has created your problems, and how you effected those around you. The key here is you can only control your own behavior. You can not control others.

Believe me, you'll read it twice...


----------



## anchorwatch

Take your time. There's more, Brother member Athol's book too.

Married Man Sex Life 

Along with the other links. Read them. Grasp them. Then formulate your plan to improve your life. As you improve your life, the lives of those close to you will be enhanced.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> Take your time. There's more, Brother member Athol's book too.
> 
> Married Man Sex Life
> 
> Along with the other links. Read them. Grasp them. Then formulate your plan to improve your life. As you improve your life, the lives of those close to you will be enhanced.


Thank you anchorwatch I will read this as well.

I was wonder if any else could share their part of their stories when implementing 180 degree divorce buster and NMMNG........


----------



## tracyishere

I personally took a very different approach. Not many here would agree with. I focussed on becoming a better spouse, giving more attention, more love and more affection. Making myself desirable and welcoming for my H to build back his trust and respect.


----------



## anchorwatch

That's the point, Tracy. Improving on yourself, will allow you to be a better spouse, father, friend, leader.


----------



## anchorwatch

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> Thank you anchorwatch I will read this as well.
> 
> I was wonder if any else could share their part of their stories when implementing 180 degree divorce buster and NMMNG........


Deejo compiled some good threads here in the sticky...
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Here too...
No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin

Good luck


----------



## tracyishere

anchorwatch said:


> That's the point, Tracy. Improving on yourself, will allow you to be a better spouse, father, friend, leader.


No. I found the 180 to be deceptive. It encourages you to disconnect from your SO and be attune to your own needs above your SO's. A healthy relationship requires both partners needs to be met. Just saying...


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

I was just looking at a video in youtube about infidelity and so on and I something just pop into my mind, a comment she made about a month a go wanting to join a gym close to work, it never happened....as I told her you 3 in less than a half a mile where we leave......incredible when the small things you start seen.....This comes to be, because the video I was watching talked about changes in routine..


----------



## anchorwatch

tracyishere said:


> No. I found the 180 to be deceptive. It encourages you to disconnect from your SO and be attune to your own needs above your SO's. A healthy relationship requires both partners needs to be met. Just saying...


I agree, it does take two to make a relationship. 

IMHO, one needs to work on correcting their own destructive behaviors before they can be a fulfilling partner. The 180 allows one to disconnect from conflict with an unwilling partner, while cleaning your own side of the street. None of these behaviors suggest one should be deceptive or a jerk. Those undesirable behaviors, among others, are what need to be corrected. And certainly one should apply what is relevant to their situation, from all these methods.


----------



## bagdon

tracyishere said:


> No. I found the 180 to be deceptive. It encourages you to disconnect from your SO and be attune to your own needs above your SO's. A healthy relationship requires both partners needs to be met. Just saying...


All I can say is if I hadn't stopped running behind my wife and started taking care of myself I believe we would probably be in terrible shape right now.

The 180 concept was instrumental in helping me better myself. I didn't follow every step to the letter but altered it to meet our specific situation; I learned to embrace the principle of the 180. (which I did not perceive as deceptive) Maybe it's different for a female.

My marriage was like the cabin pressure in a commercial jet flying at 30,000 feet. We were losing cabin pressure and oxygen. I had to first dawn my own oxygen mask before tending to my wife. Otherwise we both may lose consciousness.

I don't think we can really properly love anyone until we first love ourselves.


----------



## tracyishere

anchorwatch said:


> I agree, it does take two to make a relationship.
> 
> IMHO, one needs to work on correcting their own destructive behaviors before they can be a fulfilling partner. The 180 allows one to disconnect from conflict with an unwilling partner, while cleaning your own side of the street. None of these behaviors suggest one should be deceptive or a jerk. Those undesirable behaviors, among others, are what need to be corrected. And certainly one should apply what is relevant to their situation, from all these methods.


I agree it is very important to work on yourself. But that should be inclusive with your spouse after all he/she is your life partner.

I used the term deceptive in reference to acting or behaving uncharacteristcly of yourself to peek the interest of your spouse. 
Unless this is to be a permanent change I view it as being deceptive.


----------



## bagdon

tracyishere said:


> I agree it is very important to work on yourself. But that should be inclusive with your spouse after all he/she is your life partner.
> 
> I used the term deceptive in reference to acting or behaving uncharacteristcly of yourself to peek the interest of your spouse.
> Unless this is to be a permanent change I view it as being deceptive.


That's the key...it has to be part of a life changing process. Not just some technique. It has to be real.


----------



## tracyishere

By not saying I love you, by not buying gifts, by not showing affection,by not being intimate, I feel that you are denying yourself and your spouse the most important components in a marriage ie: the 5 love languages! How is denying your spouse your love going to help them love you?


----------



## anchorwatch

Tracy, I hear you. Yes the 5'll or HNHN can be of use as the situation allows. Yet if your partner is being deceptive and that deception won't allow for you fill their needs, you will only look pathetic invoke more contempt them. This ends this Neanderthal's part in this evenings debate, as I have my apron on and have to stuff a lamb, waiting for the oven. Lol


----------



## tracyishere

You go make supper!! Shhhhh. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

What could she be doing for 2 hrs before opening. Is anyone else there?


----------



## tracyishere

anchorwatch said:


> Tracy, I hear you. Yes the 5'll or HNHN can be of use as the situation allows. Yet if your partner is being deceptive and that deception won't allow for you fill their needs, you will only look pathetic invoke more contempt them. This ends this Neanderthal's part in this evenings debate, as I have my apron on and have to stuff a lamb, waiting for the oven. Lol


From my own experience I beg to differ. Yes, at first I probably looked desperate (and I was), he suspected the affection and devotion was not real. But after months of continuous dedication to being the best dang wife on the planet he learned otherwise and he chose to come back to me. It was not a decision based on lies. I had to prove to him I was worthy. And I did and always will. Love is not a right. It has to be earned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

Shaggy said:


> What could she be doing for 2 hrs before opening. Is anyone else there?


In theory she says that she is doing training, reports, etc.......


----------



## tracyishere

Sorry for hijacking your thread. Do you think your wife can change?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Pen var my friend, pen var.


----------



## matristar96

tracyishere said:


> I personally took a very different approach. Not many here would agree with. I focussed on becoming a better spouse, giving more attention, more love and more affection. Making myself desirable and welcoming for my H to build back his trust and respect.



I wish i could have you talk to my Hubby to open his eyes a little bit i understand his needs/wants but he doesn't even try to meet any of mine and if he does it is only to get into my pants. I'm sorry off topic but i wanted to let you know that i find everything you have said very informative and helpful.

In regards to the problem at hand It def. sounds like the wife is up to no good i'm a very open person so I'd probably end up leaving because it would be hey this is how I feel and if she chose to blow me off then i'd compile a bunch of evidence try to approach her again and then if she didn't address my concerns at that point i'd leave. it's a bit harder with kids but i've seen so many people stay married "for the kids" but honestly the kids suffer more because they see day in and out how a disfunctional family runs and it isn't setting up a good road for them. If your wife doesn't want to be with you and only you than find someone who does your better than that and you don't deserve to be lied to or cheated on. I hate cheating if you don't love the person anymore just have enough respect for them and yourself to say I'm feeling like because of "x" and well i don't think we should be together anymore. Will it hurt of course will it be hard of course but cheating in my opinion hurts more. I hope that your wife isn't cheating and I hope for you and your kids sake you can work it out. best of luck


----------



## tracyishere

matristar96 said:


> I wish i could have you talk to my Hubby to open his eyes a little bit i understand his needs/wants but he doesn't even try to meet any of mine and if he does it is only to get into my pants. I'm sorry off topic but i wanted to let you know that i find everything you have said very informative and helpful.
> 
> In regards to the problem at hand It def. sounds like the wife is up to no good i'm a very open person so I'd probably end up leaving because it would be hey this is how I feel and if she chose to blow me off then i'd compile a bunch of evidence try to approach her again and then if she didn't address my concerns at that point i'd leave. it's a bit harder with kids but i've seen so many people stay married "for the kids" but honestly the kids suffer more because they see day in and out how a disfunctional family runs and it isn't setting up a good road for them. If your wife doesn't want to be with you and only you than find someone who does your better than that and you don't deserve to be lied to or cheated on. I hate cheating if you don't love the person anymore just have enough respect for them and yourself to say I'm feeling like because of "x" and well i don't think we should be together anymore. Will it hurt of course will it be hard of course but cheating in my opinion hurts more. I hope that your wife isn't cheating and I hope for you and your kids sake you can work it out. best of luck


Well, thank you for the kind words. But, I only speak from my experience where as the 180 seems to have much more. I think everybody's approach varies depending on the circumstances and their own personalities. I knew I could never act like I didn't care for my H. I am horrible at hiding my true feelings. Therefore I chose to reflect my true feelings instead. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. Honestly, it took 1/2 year for him to even choose to be with me. That meant 1/2 year of constant love, appreciation, gratitude and affection with NOTHING in return.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

tracyishere said:


> Well, thank you for the kind words. But, I only speak from my experience where as the 180 seems to have much more. I think everybody's approach varies depending on the circumstances and their own personalities. I knew I could never act like I didn't care for my H. I am horrible at hiding my true feelings. Therefore I chose to reflect my true feelings instead. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. Honestly, it took 1/2 year for him to even chose to be with me. That meant 1/2 year of constant love, appreciation, gratitude and affection with NOTHING in return.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Did it make you feel diminished?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tracyishere

treyvion said:


> Did it make you feel diminished?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course it did. It was draining. I cried everyday. I had turned to faith for strength and had my friend to give me encouragement and support.

There were days I just wanted to give up. Giving up seemed so much easier. But, I'm stubborn  I wanted to give this marriage EVERYTHING I had before I gave up on it.

Not only was I getting nothing in return, I was getting put down, shunned, laugh at and rejected almost daily. The pain was almost unbearable. But, in this process I was learning and becoming stronger, wiser and a much more loving, caring person. I am who I am now because of what I went through. And I am a much happier person now, then I had ever been before.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

as you can imagine at this point, and bringing the conversation back to the thread, today I checked the cell phone statement online for the past few day and is like it went on mute...only a few number showed up compare to previous week even compare to the previous month.....if you don't have anything to hide this should not happen, or I'm missing something here?


----------



## anchorwatch

You're not missing anything. 

Did you get a VAR in her car?


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> You're not missing anything.
> 
> Did you get a VAR in her car?


I'm about to change the password to all my credit cards and separate bank accounts.........any recommendations?


----------



## anchorwatch

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> I'm about to change the password to all my credit cards and separate bank accounts.........any recommendations?


Not playing Mr Nice Guy anymore? Tired of living this way?

Speak to a lawyer today and find out your rights and responsibilities. 

Is this a shot across her bow or do you feel you must protect yourself? 

Are you taking action because of the way she is acting recently or have you found solid evidence? 

How do you expect her to react to this? Be prepared for what she will do in response to this action. Stick to the 180 and STAY CALM.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> Not playing Mr Nice Guy anymore? Tired of living this way?
> 
> Speak to a lawyer today and find out your rights and responsibilities.
> 
> Is this a shot across her bow or do you feel you must protect yourself?
> 
> Are you taking action because of the way she is acting recently or have you found solid evidence?
> 
> How do you expect her to react to this? Be prepared for what she will do in response to this action. Stick to the 180 and STAY CALM.


I was thinking about this on the way to work and I agree, should let thing stay the way they are at the moment......Keep reading the book, thank you so much for sharing.

Today we had the biggest exchange of words (via txt msg) about planning our daughters birthday

Some how since I started reading TAM and all the different cases we see hear, all the different points of views. I feel like we have disconnected so much that we may need to start all over again, meaning, fall in love again, gain the respect and trust.

My main concern here is that out of the two times we had MC she has never admitted that she had aspects of her life that need it to be changed. How do you deal with that? Has any one dealt with this type of spouse? That is my concern or FEAR if you would. That for her, she is perfect, nothing is wrong....On the other hand I actually open to admit mistakes and move on from there, some time it hurts, I get upset but at the end of the day I know where is coming from and I can work on it.

I was reading multiple threads last night about H or W that received a confession, and I though to my self, how lucky they were, within all the misery to have this type of Closure at least it can be taken as a starting (whether is the end or the beginning) point. When you have all the red flag flashing but you have no way to prove it, is like having a needle stuck in your chest and someone is moving it around........

Again what gives me hope and strengh are the happy endings you find here, on either side of the spectrum. Have a wonderful day TAM!!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## alte Dame

Get the VAR in her car and you just might finally get the confession that you want.


----------



## happyman64

lovelife

Of course there are happy endings.

They all resulted from hard work.

By both parties.

Do not sell yourself short. Do your due diligence and get to the root of your issues as well as hers.

And if your wife is not communicating or willing to work with you then dig deep and find out the real reasons why.

Good luck and keep posting.

HM64


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

alte Dame said:


> Get the VAR in her car and you just might finally get the confession that you want.


I had a questions which I have not seen posted here in TAM, what happens if you VAR is found? Has this happen to anyone?


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

I just finish reading chapter 4 NMMNG and the empowerment this section provides is unreal. Lars and Shane stories in a way is what is wrong with me...I can now see it as clear as water

I guess by coincidence I've already started doing some of the things the book describes and others I'm starting today, however, I struggle with the part of telling people around me.... in reality the only person around me is W and we have only spoken a few time the past week......So I'll try to manage as much as I can on my own, thinking in my needs and how that affects everyone around me. For example my oldest son congratulate me for starting to do sports twice a week!!! 

How much we do, that we don't realized..... is like we have veil over our eyes

Hope everyone is having a great Friday!!


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

It now 9 days since the confrontation and she hasn't said anything....right now is in one of the bedrooms doing folding laundry watching a movie..........I doing all the work on myself, however, need advise on how to proceed. As it looks like she is not going to talk about the situation and let things be.........should I keep waiting for her to want to talk about it or should I just keep doing my thing?............


----------



## Shaggy

Hopefully you have deployed the Var, secured with Velcro under the car seat of her car!

It sounds like you are hoping to nice her out of cheating and back to you. Unfortunately that never ever works.

Any affairs must first be discovered and killed off before you have a chance.

Get that var deployed.


----------



## anchorwatch

If you had the var in place, you might be clearer about how to proceed. You have a fear of investigating her conversations, yet she has no fear of not showing you the text to her male friend. 

Stick to the 180. Keep reading. Keep improving yourself. 

Stay pleasant and don't engage. She knows what's up.

Did you finish NMMNG? 

Did you start HNHN or 5LL?


----------



## ocotillo

I don't disagree with the advice below. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

I do think this type of advice deserves a disclaimer. It should not be done without a prior consideration of potential risk. 

In most states of the U.S.:



> Hide a VAR in her car and monitor her calls. - Felony
> 
> Check your phone bills - Legal
> 
> Verify the times and numbers called. - Legal
> 
> You could use a key logger on the computer - Felony
> 
> Spy ware programs are available for cell phones...- Felony
> 
> If your suspicions still persist or you want more, hire a PI. - Legal


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> If you had the var in place, you might be clearer about how to proceed. You have a fear of investigating her conversations, yet she has no fear of not showing you the text to her male friend.
> 
> Stick to the 180. Keep reading. Keep improving yourself.
> 
> Stay pleasant and don't engage. She knows what's up.
> 
> Did you finish NMMNG?
> 
> Did you start HNHN or 5LL?


Anchorwatch I haven't finish the book yet and still working on 180. Like for example yesterday went to a friend house in the afternoon to hang out and from there the idea to BBQ came out, let her know, she join us as well as other couples and I hang with the man all evening we exchange a few comments and that is it....

Today we actually had more causal conversation about as we both like F1 and we watch part of the race together, exchange comments etc........we talked about a couple of things regarding the kids school and so on.... 

Is funny how I can feel old habits trying to come out, but I keep reminding me about the 180 and NMMNG and is helping, will see what happens in the next few weeks.. I'll keep you all updated.

Still if you have any suggestions, comments etc....I'm still listening  :smthumbup:

PS She has not approach the subject at all thus far........


----------



## bagdon

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> Anchorwatch I haven't finish the book yet and still working on 180. Like for example yesterday went to a friend house in the afternoon to hang out and from there the idea to BBQ came out, let her know, she join us as well as other couples and I hang with the man all evening we exchange a few comments and that is it....
> 
> Today we actually had more causal conversation about as we both like F1 and we watch part of the race together, exchange comments etc........we talked about a couple of things regarding the kids school and so on....
> 
> Is funny how I can feel old habits trying to come out, but I keep reminding me about the 180 and NMMNG and is helping, will see what happens in the next few weeks.. I'll keep you all updated.
> 
> Still if you have any suggestions, comments etc....I'm still listening  :smthumbup:
> 
> PS She has not approach the subject at all thus far........


It's good you're aware of old habits. Keep reading and patiently stay the course. Good job hanging with the men... I did the same thing at family gatherings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

bagdon said:


> It's good you're aware of old habits. Keep reading and patiently stay the course. Good job hanging with the men... I did the same thing at family gatherings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you Bagdon, and in half an hour I'm going to play soccer with a group of guys that I meet. We play twice a week, it is awesome.........I just can believe of all the things that I've miss doing for no reason at all...this is very healthy for me.


----------



## Shaggy

ocotillo said:


> I don't disagree with the advice below. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
> 
> I do think this type of advice deserves a disclaimer. It should not be done without a prior consideration of potential risk.
> 
> In most states of the U.S.:


Sorry, but this is just scare tactics -These are not felonies in most states especially when done in a car you own, a house you own, a computer you own, or a phone you own.


----------



## ocotillo

Shaggy said:


> Sorry, but this is just scare tactics -These are not felonies in most states especially when done in a car you own, a house you own, a computer you own, or a phone you own.



The belief that joint property law unilaterally trumps privacy law is completely false. You may very well own the phone in your home, but recording conversations that you are not a party to between other adults is illegal under 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510–2522 and is actionable both criminally and civilly. 

A seminal case in this regard is _MG vs. JC_. (254 N.J. Super 470 (Ch. Div. 1991)) Briefly, a man suspected his wife of having an affair. He tapped the phone in the marital home and recorded her conversations. Those conversations revealed a same sex affair. His wife subsequently brought a civil action against him and was awarded ten thousand dollars from the joint estate in compensatory damages plus fifty thousand more in punitive damages. Like Rupert Murdoch, I imagine he was pretty surprised. "What do you mean I can't spy on my wife without legal consequences?"

At the time, this was entirely a matter of New Jersey's wiretap statute. But the court was simply echoing what Federal Courts had been saying. That was twenty two years ago and since then, numerous other states have passed laws that extend the same privacy protections to other forms of electronic communication.

*To the O.P. *Don't listen to anonymous voices on the internet. People are currently serving prison sentences because they did. Two men in Texas in the last few years received four year sentences for installing eBlaster and SpyRecon (respectively) on jointly owned computers. This is serious, serious stuff and the legal climate has changed drastically in the last ten years.

Always, always, always talk to an attorney first and then make up your own mind.


----------



## happyman64

ocotillo

you bring up some good points.

The key is to be smart and keep control of your emotions.

I have been in the communications business for over 30 years. I have worked on the federal, state and local end of the business as well as in the private sector.

I have consulted on companies and individuals getting the evidence but not to confront the other parties whether it an employee or spouse.

I always recommend getting the advice of the attorney on how to use the evidence found in a legal manner.

Many times it is the hint of such evidence that brings these matters to a conclusion without legal issues.

Many of us recommend getting the evidence so the issues (truth) come to light.

But I agree with you that BS's need to be careful. They also need to get the truth. 

Evidence gathering will always walk the fine line.

Amazing how the average citizen can go to jail for spying on a husband or wife but the feds can now do it with no consequences whatsoever.

HM


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

happyman64 said:


> ocotillo
> 
> you bring up some good points.
> 
> The key is to be smart and keep control of your emotions.
> 
> I have been in the communications business for over 30 years. I have worked on the federal, state and local end of the business as well as in the private sector.
> 
> I have consulted on companies and individuals getting the evidence but not to confront the other parties whether it an employee or spouse.
> 
> I always recommend getting the advice of the attorney on how to use the evidence found in a legal manner.
> 
> Many times it is the hint of such evidence that brings these matters to a conclusion without legal issues.
> 
> Many of us recommend getting the evidence so the issues (truth) come to light.
> 
> But I agree with you that BS's need to be careful. They also need to get the truth.
> 
> Evidence gathering will always walk the fine line.
> 
> Amazing how the average citizen can go to jail for spying on a husband or wife but the feds can now do it with no consequences whatsoever.
> 
> HM


Thank you Both of you for advise, I think this is very useful......Kind Regards and have a great night

PS I scored two goals :smthumbup:


----------



## EleGirl

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> I had a questions which I have not seen posted here in TAM, what happens if you VAR is found? Has this happen to anyone?


Use adhesive backed Velcro strips to keep the VAR from sliding around in the car, or stuck to the bottom of a sofa, etc.

Do you think that she will be crawling around her car looking to see if you have a VAR in her vehicle?

You can wipe off finger prints and act shocked if it's found. Just deny it.


----------



## KanDo

And listening to a conversation that is audible to anyone around is not the same as wiretapping.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

KanDo said:


> And listening to a conversation that is audible to anyone around is not the same as wiretapping.


Kando my man, what a story you have......... I hope I don't find so much s...t like you did. Today is a BAD day for me...... Trying to take deep breaths.......


----------



## ocotillo

happyman64 said:


> ocotillo
> 
> you bring up some good points.
> 
> The key is to be smart and keep control of your emotions.
> 
> I have been in the communications business for over 30 years. I have worked on the federal, state and local end of the business as well as in the private sector.
> 
> I have consulted on companies and individuals getting the evidence but not to confront the other parties whether it an employee or spouse.
> 
> I always recommend getting the advice of the attorney on how to use the evidence found in a legal manner.
> 
> Many times it is the hint of such evidence that brings these matters to a conclusion without legal issues.
> 
> Many of us recommend getting the evidence so the issues (truth) come to light.
> 
> But I agree with you that BS's need to be careful. They also need to get the truth.
> 
> Evidence gathering will always walk the fine line.
> 
> Amazing how the average citizen can go to jail for spying on a husband or wife but the feds can now do it with no consequences whatsoever.
> 
> HM


I appreciate you comments. This is my profession too, although I might be on the 'other side' of it. Computer forensics in divorce proceedings has become commonplace. 

What this means for the average person depends to a great degree upon where they are in life. A young couple living in a rental property and in debt up to their eyeballs is one thing. But the situation changes for couple in their forties, with twenty years worth of contributions into 401Ks and whose sixty thousand dollar house is now worth better than half a million. Throw in a rental property or two and there is now a lot at stake. 

It's really nothing to me if people on TAM want to believe this or not. Working for family law attorneys has become a lucrative niche market for me. I would like to see people better informed on the dangers of gathering information illegally, but in the end, I'm just salving my own conscience.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

ocotillo said:


> I appreciate you comments. This is my profession too, although I might be on the 'other side' of it. Computer forensics in divorce proceedings has become commonplace.
> 
> What this means for the average person depends to a great degree upon where they are in life. A young couple living in a rental property and in debt up to their eyeballs is one thing. But the situation changes for couple in their forties, with twenty years worth of contributions into 401Ks and whose sixty thousand dollar house is now worth better than half a million. Throw in a rental property or two and there is now a lot at stake.
> 
> It's really nothing to me if people on TAM want to believe this or not. Working for family law attorneys has become a lucrative niche market for me. I would like to see people better informed on the dangers of gathering information illegally, but in the end, I'm just salving my own conscience.


Well I guess I don't have to worry about that.... 2008 took everything we had...


----------



## KanDo

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> Kando my man, what a story you have......... I hope I don't find so much s...t like you did. Today is a BAD day for me...... Trying to take deep breaths.......


I hope you don't either..... And I hope that if you D that it ends much more quickly than mine


----------



## anchorwatch

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit, 

Hope the legs are holding up for the games? Does you son watch?


----------



## moto164

Any updates lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

moto164 said:


> Any updates lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit





anchorwatch said:


> lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit,
> 
> Hope the legs are holding up for the games? Does you son watch?


No he plays as well......

We had a conversation/argument the other day and we agree to do MC...........This time I'm not holding anything back, either everything comes out or its over.....meanwhile I keep doing my thing.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

Good morning everyone, I away for a while and now I'm back...... I'm still in the process of looking for MC.....

I was away for training for about a week and this training was sequestered, so it was good to get away and re focus. When I got back I decided to stop by her work place to say hello and see how things were going with the kids and maybe have lunch. When at the bank I was introduced to some of her staff and one of the people that I was introduce to was the guy that had sent her the text message that I refer to at the beginning of my post..... to my surprise the guy has similar characteristic as the guy she was in contact with during 2011. I mention this as is something that lingers in my mind since that day...... There's definitely a pattern, more so I found another txt where he reply to a question that she made (work related) saying how great of a boss she is etc, etc. I think under different circumstances this would have not have any meaning what so ever, but given what happen it takes on a different light.

I believe she has an issue that she needs to obtain constant feedback, no matter what that is, ladies can you comment on this? 

more to come.


----------



## anchorwatch

Has MC started?

Did you decide to use the VARs or not?


----------



## alexm

My 2 cents (which aren't worth that much, because my post count is low, lol!):

You won't like this much, but this is one of two things - either she's a serial cheater and a narcissist (which is exactly what she sounds like, judging by your description of events) OR, the part you won't like, you are oblivious to the marriage, her needs, etc. and she is going outside the marriage to get what she needs because she's not getting it from you. She may have even tried over many years to clue you in, but you just haven't "got it".

This is absolutely not meant to be insulting to you, in any way. I find that, throughout my experiences in life, there are always two sides to every story.

You have a forum, here, in which people only ever get ONE side of a story, and it's usually never glowing praise for their spouse/partner.

In the relatively low number of posts I've made here, I usually try to balance it out, to the point where people accuse me of defending my spouse (or ex).

Point is, we always see what we want to see, or in some cases, what we DON'T want to see. Depends on your personality, I guess.

Anyway, on the assumption that everything you have written here is as exactly as it sounds, then you DO need proof of something. You really do.

However, do not go about it by using less-than-savoury methods. VARs under the seat of the car, key loggers and spyware on the computers, GPS tracking on her (or your) phone, left in the car, etc.

If you do discover something using these methods, she (or her lawyer, if it gets to that) will make anything and everything about THAT, not the actual issue at hand. Especially stay away from spyware - bad bad bad idea.

If you absolutely HAVE to use one of those methods, then a VAR in the car would be the least traceable method. As long as you take what you hear (if anything), and keep it to yourself. Never bring it up to her, or anyone else. Use it ONLY for your own knowledge or confirmation.

If you do discover something through these methods, use that information to follow her, or whatever. If you "overhear" her talking about meeting somebody at some place, then you can use that information to your advantage, and head her off, or wait for her. Catch her in the act. At that point, you can take pictures of her exiting wherever it is she's coming from, for example.

It would be unlikely that she'd even ask how you caught her, and if she did, there are a million different answers to that that could be perfectly acceptable by her. "I saw you driving down this street when I thought you were supposed to be at work, so I followed you." Perfectly legal, and she wouldn't challenge that response.

As for my other possibility, in that perhaps it is you, or your behaviour (or lack thereof) within the marriage that quote, unquote "drove" her to this, then you have some work to do. However, if this is the case, then this marriage is much much easier to fix than trying to convince a woman who is a serial cheater, or who just doesn't want to be married, to stay with you. So there's that.

My advice on that front would be to talk to her, communicate with her. Tell her you feel that she's "checked out" and that you fear that it is you who has something to do with that. Tell her you love here, and that you only want her to be happy. Do not talk about your happiness, or your needs or desires at this point. It is about her. Perhaps she does not feel that she is as important to you as she once was. Making this about her can help her open up, and could be the start of a turning point.

Don't take this the wrong way, but nobody here knows how you treat your wife, consciously or subconsciously. We will assume you treat her fine, and it certainly sounds like it. But for all we know, you could have, or do, tell her she's fat for example, or make her otherwise feel bad about herself in some way. Even if you didn't intend for something to be mean, it can come across that way, know what I mean? Most people (not just women), can be sensitive about certain things. Nobody is 100% confident about everything about themselves. Perhaps she doesn't feel good about one or more aspects about herself that you haven't helped with, and she's being reassured by somebody else. Not an accusation or an assumption, just throwing that out there.
As I said, though, you need to keep in mind that everyone here is hearing one side of a much bigger story, and that your wife's viewpoint on this may be completely and utterly different than what we're hearing.

A lot of the responses here (and rightfully so) are only based on what YOU are writing. Occasionally, they are being answered by people who have lived through the same thing you are describing, and often they did not end well. You need to sift through the responses, and find which one(s) best reflect YOU and your situation, not necessarily the situations of others. There is a lot of bias here (justified, of course). But this bias may not be the best advice for YOUR situation. Most of the time, it is an expression of what the person wishes THEY could have done in their situation, and they feel they need to warn you. Sometimes they can be right, sometimes it could be the worst advice possible.

Do what feels right to YOU, in YOUR situation, and don't take any advice (including mine) as the be-all, end-all.

I do have to say you seem to be handling this rather well, though, so that's a good sign!


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

alexm said:


> My 2 cents (which aren't worth that much, because my post count is low, lol!):
> 
> You won't like this much, but this is one of two things - either she's a serial cheater and a narcissist (which is exactly what she sounds like, judging by your description of events) OR, the part you won't like, you are oblivious to the marriage, her needs, etc. and she is going outside the marriage to get what she needs because she's not getting it from you. She may have even tried over many years to clue you in, but you just haven't "got it".
> 
> This is absolutely not meant to be insulting to you, in any way. I find that, throughout my experiences in life, there are always two sides to every story.
> 
> You have a forum, here, in which people only ever get ONE side of a story, and it's usually never glowing praise for their spouse/partner.
> 
> In the relatively low number of posts I've made here, I usually try to balance it out, to the point where people accuse me of defending my spouse (or ex).
> 
> Point is, we always see what we want to see, or in some cases, what we DON'T want to see. Depends on your personality, I guess.
> 
> Anyway, on the assumption that everything you have written here is as exactly as it sounds, then you DO need proof of something. You really do.
> 
> However, do not go about it by using less-than-savoury methods. VARs under the seat of the car, key loggers and spyware on the computers, GPS tracking on her (or your) phone, left in the car, etc.
> 
> If you do discover something using these methods, she (or her lawyer, if it gets to that) will make anything and everything about THAT, not the actual issue at hand. Especially stay away from spyware - bad bad bad idea.
> 
> If you absolutely HAVE to use one of those methods, then a VAR in the car would be the least traceable method. As long as you take what you hear (if anything), and keep it to yourself. Never bring it up to her, or anyone else. Use it ONLY for your own knowledge or confirmation.
> 
> If you do discover something through these methods, use that information to follow her, or whatever. If you "overhear" her talking about meeting somebody at some place, then you can use that information to your advantage, and head her off, or wait for her. Catch her in the act. At that point, you can take pictures of her exiting wherever it is she's coming from, for example.
> 
> It would be unlikely that she'd even ask how you caught her, and if she did, there are a million different answers to that that could be perfectly acceptable by her. "I saw you driving down this street when I thought you were supposed to be at work, so I followed you." Perfectly legal, and she wouldn't challenge that response.
> 
> As for my other possibility, in that perhaps it is you, or your behaviour (or lack thereof) within the marriage that quote, unquote "drove" her to this, then you have some work to do. However, if this is the case, then this marriage is much much easier to fix than trying to convince a woman who is a serial cheater, or who just doesn't want to be married, to stay with you. So there's that.
> 
> My advice on that front would be to talk to her, communicate with her. Tell her you feel that she's "checked out" and that you fear that it is you who has something to do with that. Tell her you love here, and that you only want her to be happy. Do not talk about your happiness, or your needs or desires at this point. It is about her. Perhaps she does not feel that she is as important to you as she once was. Making this about her can help her open up, and could be the start of a turning point.
> 
> Don't take this the wrong way, but nobody here knows how you treat your wife, consciously or subconsciously. We will assume you treat her fine, and it certainly sounds like it. But for all we know, you could have, or do, tell her she's fat for example, or make her otherwise feel bad about herself in some way. Even if you didn't intend for something to be mean, it can come across that way, know what I mean? Most people (not just women), can be sensitive about certain things. Nobody is 100% confident about everything about themselves. Perhaps she doesn't feel good about one or more aspects about herself that you haven't helped with, and she's being reassured by somebody else. Not an accusation or an assumption, just throwing that out there.
> As I said, though, you need to keep in mind that everyone here is hearing one side of a much bigger story, and that your wife's viewpoint on this may be completely and utterly different than what we're hearing.
> 
> A lot of the responses here (and rightfully so) are only based on what YOU are writing. Occasionally, they are being answered by people who have lived through the same thing you are describing, and often they did not end well. You need to sift through the responses, and find which one(s) best reflect YOU and your situation, not necessarily the situations of others. There is a lot of bias here (justified, of course). But this bias may not be the best advice for YOUR situation. Most of the time, it is an expression of what the person wishes THEY could have done in their situation, and they feel they need to warn you. Sometimes they can be right, sometimes it could be the worst advice possible.
> 
> Do what feels right to YOU, in YOUR situation, and don't take any advice (including mine) as the be-all, end-all.
> 
> I do have to say you seem to be handling this rather well, though, so that's a good sign!


This was a pleasure to read and thank you for taking the time, it means a lot. 

I think I do need to work on things from my end, is always a couple problem. The issue that I have is that she never talks nor wants to talk. It actually bothers her that we even have to talk or go to counseling as she has nothing to fix. I'm not just saying this, she basically told me that. 

Now for example, she is acting like nothing happened and is business as usual. Saturday night we went out with a few friends, had a good night but I stay with the guys. I really had nothing to share with her.

During her most difficult times I was always there, listening, asking family for money when she need it a car to go back to work after being fired. My family watched the kids so she could work, etc, etc and the list goes on..... none of it counts? Nothing matters?

I've always told her how beautiful she was, even when she was really overweight, I still wanted her, I've always looked for her, gave everything I had, but I guess for some people is never enough.


----------



## 6301

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> My main concern here is that out of the two times we had MC she has never admitted that she had aspects of her life that need it to be changed. How do you deal with that? Has any one dealt with this type of spouse? That is my concern or FEAR if you would. That for her, she is perfect, nothing is wrong....On the other hand I actually open to admit mistakes and move on from there, some time it hurts, I get upset but at the end of the day I know where is coming from and I can work on it.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I think your problem is that your wife doesn't have any fear of you if she would do something inappropriate and have a EA or PA. She knows your a nice guy and she pretty much has your number so she feel like she can do as she pleases and get away with it. That's a lousy situation to be in.
> 
> I think it would be a great idea that when you both go to the MC that you let it all hang out and get whatever is on your mind out in the open and if she doesn't like it, no doubt she will let you know on the way home. IMO, she will expect you to try to smooth things over and take the fall for it. Don't. She's the one causing the problem and she's the one that either needs to correct it or except the fact that she will be the one that ruins the marriage.
> 
> If that happens. Do what you were going to do in one of your posts. Give her a wake up call that she will remember and change the passwords to the bank accounts and open your own account and let her know that if she doesn't wise up and fly straight, then the price will be high. You can't keep rolling over and playing dead or be the pacifier in the marriage.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

Wanted to provide a quick update. getting everything arranged for therapy and not really showing feelings for her at the moment. Not doing this on purpose or trying to hurt her, I just can do it.

Also I wanted to post a question, I was thinking in calling the guy and confront him.......any thoughts? FYI I'm referring to the guy back in 2011.......


----------



## nogutsnoglory

tracyishere said:


> By not saying I love you, by not buying gifts, by not showing affection,by not being intimate, I feel that you are denying yourself and your spouse the most important components in a marriage ie: the 5 love languages! How is denying your spouse your love going to help them love you?


you are missing the real idea of the process IMO. It is about showing someone who has thrown your marriage in the sh&&&er that you will be fine with out them if need be. It is about strengthening the you that was taken away by the betrayal cast upon you. It is about making the betrayer realize the person they are losing. 180 is not meant to be a permanent reflection of the actual relationship, it is meant to right the ship. The person doing the betraying has the ship so far to the left that you must over correct the ship to get it to straight. Once the relationship is back on course then of course you can buy gifts and express love. To act that way immediately following discovery of a betrayal makes you a doormat and a fool, not a good marriage partner.


----------



## anchorwatch

lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit said:


> Also I wanted to post a question, I was thinking in calling the guy and confront him.......any thoughts? FYI I'm referring to the guy back in 2011.......


Meh... Isn't it a bit late for that? If it were current I'd have confronted him in a second. What will come of it now? What would you ask? Wouldn't he just deny anything incriminating or tell you you're nuts. 

I guess you could strike up a conversation and tell him you've wondered all this time what exactly he was doing all that time, he spent with your wife. Do you really think he would tell you if something happened? I say you're looking for closure in the wrong place. 

Have you read NMMNG yet?


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

nogutsnoglory said:


> you are missing the real idea of the process IMO. It is about showing someone who has thrown your marriage in the sh&&&er that you will be fine with out them if need be. It is about strengthening the you that was taken away by the betrayal cast upon you. It is about making the betrayer realize the person they are losing. 180 is not meant to be a permanent reflection of the actual relationship, it is meant to right the ship. The person doing the betraying has the ship so far to the left that you must over correct the ship to get it to straight. Once the relationship is back on course then of course you can buy gifts and express love. To act that way immediately following discovery of a betrayal makes you a doormat and a fool, not a good marriage partner.


Sorry not sure I follow your post as I'm taking care of myself, etc........and never said anything about buying gifts or anything else...


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> Meh... Isn't it a bit late for that? If it were current I'd have confronted him in a second. What will come of it now? What would you ask? Wouldn't he just deny anything incriminating or tell you you're nuts.
> 
> I guess you could strike up a conversation and tell him you've wondered all this time what exactly he was doing all that time, he spent with your wife. Do you really think he would tell you if something happened? I say you're looking for closure in the wrong place.
> 
> Have you read NMMNG yet?


The thought process behind this questions is that since the subject came to surface again do to the recent findings still a valid subject to be addressed. 

I found out the co worker keeps texting her, kissing her .... as to how a good of this, how good of that, so I confront him using her phone to make the message clear I'm not backing down anymore....... she went to work today and came back and never said a word.....waiting to see what happens. If you don't enforce limits, I will, until the final decision is made.


----------



## anchorwatch

You confronted her new would be suitor? Bully! 

Good for setting the marriage boundaries you're willing to live within. This should be the core of your plan. Imagine the relationship you want. Express a commitment to have that relationship. Accept nothing less. You can have this with or without her. You are in control of you happiness. You can want it with her, but if she doesn't want it too, you can find someone else who shares that desire.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> You confronted her new would be suitor? Bully!
> 
> Good for setting the marriage boundaries you're willing to live within. This should be the core of your plan. Imagine the relationship you want. Express a commitment to have that relationship. Accept nothing less. You can have this with or without her. You are in control of you happiness. You can want it with her, but if she doesn't want it too, you can find someone else who shares that desire.


Thank you, I was scare sh.tless when I did but I did it and I feel more confident now.....feel strange saying this.....anyhow..... I finish the book and I went to amazon and bought the hard cover to keep with me at all time, incredible, so many things I have to work on that I'm really excited!

On another front, I have the appointment for this Thursday with the therapist and I have changed tactics....is not longer about US is about ME this time, so I'm going by my self first then she will join, if she wants to. I need to fix my self first before I can confront a couples session, otherwise it will be trying to build a house on top of rubble


----------



## anchorwatch

Bravo!!! 

You sound so much more in control now, than your first post. It's going to take time, but you've set a good course for yourself. You are right to see that you have to be whole to have a good foundation. You will encounter set backs. Just remember, the new you can handle what ever happens.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> Bravo!!!
> 
> You sound so much more in control now, than your first post. It's going to take time, but you've set a good course for yourself. You are right to see that you have to be whole to have a good foundation. You will encounter set backs. Just remember, the new you can handle what ever happens.


Thank you, I'm starting to feel better. I do feel from time to time those waves of frustration, resentment, etc but I'm able to control them more at the moment. I was able to have a good night sleep last night.....

Quick question for the forum, at this point we haven't had sex for about 12 days now, we talk but very briefly, and some time I see her very frustrated and some times more relax.......in your experience how did you take the relationship to a point where is not business as usual but more cordial keeping in mind that there still a lot be resolved, specially when you have kids in the mix


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

*UPDATE!!!!*

OK I had my first therapy session, it was a bit difficult at the beginning to talk about everything that has happen AGAIN but then things moved a lot smoother........

Basically (please take this as just me presenting my side of the story, the therapist, she still has to work with her if my wife wants to, of course) basically she thinks:

1- She has a lot of secrets and is not inclusive of me into her life
2- The way she behaves in the house with candy crash, or facebook or anything else other than the family is to ESCAPE reality
3- the texting and these "relationships"with other man could be exactly the same thing as number 2, a way to get away from it all as she can't handle the reality of the moment
4- at least this can be consider as an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR (I've already new this, however it kill me when she said it!)
5- It seems that she being depressed for a long time (again based on me providing history on things that happen to her)
6- She completely agrees with the approach I've taken to work on me first and then will see, as she said, we need to first find out what your bottom line! (liked this )
7- She has the book NMMNG in her office, totally cool, and she support of me using this forum for support

*an update on the texting:*
Since I sent this guy the text a few days ago not a single text from that number and she has not said anything to me.

The day after I sent the text I was expecting a BIG fight and nothing!.........more to come.


----------



## anchorwatch

Lovelife, how are you progressing?


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> Lovelife, how are you progressing?


Hello anchorwatch, hello forum as you can see I've disappear for little while but now I'm back.

So far I have bought the NMMNG hard cover book and reading it again and highlighting a ton of information. I'm truly learning a few things about me that I don't like. The good thing is that I can correct them 

I've had my second session and it was very interesting. I've received positive feedback on some of things that I was doing and then the conversation turn back into the whole hiding of txt messages, etc.....and basically she ask me very cold, how do you see your wife now? now that you have all this information, regardless of the fact that you don't have the gun (figure of speak) .....what do you want to do? then she ask me, what if she where to come today and said, YES, I had an affair.......what would you do?..........It made me stumble a bit....as these were very direct questions....and I said that at this point I didn't know and that I was here to resolve my internal issues to be able to come to a conclusion....

So as you can see, it was a hard session, but I really enjoyed it. Is allowing me to release these feeling out in the open instead of keeping them all inside and be able to deal with them.

On the house front, things are OK. I've decided to create a positive environment for ME and the KIDS, so things are moving along. The difference now is that I'm looking at everything that I'm doing from a distinct angle and knowing what I'm working for..............is not like before where everything was swept under the rough and pretend like nothing happened.

Another update, the co-worker was fired for a bad check of thousands of dollars......there is justice after all.

I had told her a while back that she need it to seek help, as she was depressed...in my opinion very depressed.....so now she said she will go and see the therapist. Hopefully that helps....one of things my therapist told me is that she could be depressed and maybe a little BP, which after reading several threads here a lot of the symptoms do fit. I little scary to say the least..........Lets see how long it takes her to setup the appointment.

so far that is it........

Anyone that had to deal with BP disorder???


----------



## anchorwatch

Sounds like your IC has a head on her shoulders. It is all about you and creating what you want! Good, keep at it. Glad your W is agreeing to go herself.

So, that OM got fired for fraud. Just more proof men that openly engage married women have little morals. A real snake in the grass. 

As far as her having some personality discorded you might read the threads in Physical & Mental Health Issues area. Take a look at this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/135834-quiet-bpder.html Brother member Uptown has a lot of information on the subject, as he has lived in that hell. I'm sure he would lead you to the research and discuss the patterns with you. Reach out for him.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

anchorwatch said:


> Sounds like your IC has a head on her shoulders. It is all about you and creating what you want! Good, keep at it. Glad your W is agreeing to go herself.
> 
> So, that OM got fired for fraud. Just more proof men that openly engage married women have little morals. A real snake in the grass.
> 
> As far as her having some personality discorded you might read the threads in Physical & Mental Health Issues area. Take a look at this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/135834-quiet-bpder.html Brother member Uptown has a lot of information on the subject, as he has lived in that hell. I'm sure he would lead you to the research and discuss the patterns with you. Reach out for him.


Thank you for the tip, at this time I'm working on a document where I set the boundaries that I want in my marriage. I will present this to the therapist and get her input, and then sit her and go over it, lets see what happen.... more to come!!


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

Hello Group, back after an impasse...... just wanted to provide a quick update.... still working personally through a few things. I keep going and will go a while to therapy..and keep making progress, its really helping. 

One of the things that I've found through therapy is that I hear answers to the challenges that my wife have presented to me whenever I confronted her about a situation for which I had not response (mainly do to frustration, emotions clouding the mind, etc)

I guess one of the learning experiences that I can take out of this process is HOW to better handle situations. Another positive aspect is that I can apply these same techniques under any circumstances.

Please don't take this as everything is ROSE, as that is not the case, I'm just talking about the feeling that you get when a new door opens, a new piece knowledge is found, etc.....

I keep having my difficult days.....struggle with some of the decisions I make, and I keep making from time to time the same old mistakes. However, as I said before, now I have the ability to see them , forgive my self (BIG THING TO LEARN) and move on....

As the W is concern still hasn't schedule her appointment, and she is starting to fall back into her old ways. Lets see how far we can take this, as now, I'm different.

Hope everyone is doing great!!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## LongWalk

The coworker was kissing her?

How did you find out?

Does your wife know that you know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

LongWalk said:


> The coworker was kissing her?
> 
> How did you find out?
> 
> Does your wife know that you know?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hello LongWalk, I did not catch her in the act. There were several red flags and then this year the behavior started happening again. I believe I cough it right before it went any further.

A lot of the things that happened are describe in the first post if you would like to get the details.


----------



## lovelifeandwanttoenjoyit

Hello forum, I can't believe it has been since September of 2013 that we started this journey 

So I wanted to share the culmination of such journey which has being enlightened by many things that happen along the way....

So first me, through therapy I discover that I have abandonment issues from childhood.....long story however that define some of the patterns in my life and make me not love my self and respect myself....Always looking for outside of me instead of inside of me and I came to that understanding fairly quickly which has enable to heal from the inside out. No point in trying to see what is out there if what is inside is not working.

Second my wife was diagnose with "Daddy issues", I will assume most of you know what that means and how it can affect someone at many levels......so it came to the realization (by facts) that is not only one but many man in my STBEW, which stem from the necessity of seeking man approval all the time, that couple with the fact that she though that I need it salvation. That if she would ever leave I would not survive.....

Once I explain what was going on to me which took several months and working on my self (understanding and carring about my self) that if I was here was because I do love her, not because I NEED her.... her world pretty much came crumbling down, that structure that supported her doing, I saving you so I can save my self and for that matter I'm entitle to do whatever I want was LONG GONE.......

She is now going through a period of depression, has not clue what to do....etc, etc, etc......meanwhile she keeps her behavior, which in my opinion is the only thing that keeps her in her two feets.....

So as you can imagine you know what the end is.......I do not hate her and I do not feel sorry for her, is what it is.

I was able to put the ME inside of ME and not out there for anyone to crash..... I look forward to this new journey and the new adventures that it may bring, good and bad as this situation has allow me to grow as a person and for that I thank life.

Hope everyone is doing well and thank you for all the support......most of your posts were dead on!!!:smthumbup:

If I may for anyone out there, I would recommend a few books that have help me thought this process, send me a private message..... :smthumbup:


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