# How do they forget the love so fast?



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Bit of an aside here....but I find it amazing reading the threads here (and books on the subject) and my own situation........

I used to wonder how on earth people got divorced - it just didnt make sense that you could love someone and then become the enemies you often see couples become.

Yet here I am.....no word from the X....like she just flicked of the love switch? I'd love to know what goes on in their mind!

It always seems to be one falls apart and the other just acts like they dont care....or if they do, its no way near the level of "care" they would have shown in previous years.

Just strikes me as so odd!


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It is odd, isn't it? 

I think for the one who is doing the leaving (or wanting the divorce and unwilling to participate in the marriage)--they have been emotionally divorced for awhile by that time so that is why it seems like they are so easy to cut ties.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

that makes sense - like we are playing catch up.

Yet I look back on emails/chats we had just a matter of weeks ago....and its like, all the love and caring just vanished!

In a way, it helps. I read a great comment on here "If she needed you she would be with you"

Bit of a wake up and smell the coffee moment really - its so true. In fact, when you realise you are pining for someone who isnt pining for you - it makes you feel a bit silly!


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

My ex wife would tell me that she loved me every day until the "love you but not in love with you reveal". (which she later told me that even that wasn't true...that she didn't love me at all anymore) She would constantly text me during the day when she and/or I was at work and we would joke around and/or get all mushy. She gave me a card on Valentine's Day this year signed just as it usually is, Love Always, J****. The moment she revealed to me her true feelings, all of that stopped. Cold. It's like when she was finally able to say it, it finally became real. Complete night and day transformation instantaneously. I haven't been apart from my wife that long...it hasn't even been 2 months yet and we went through the whole process already: ILYBNILWY, separation, and divorce. My world was gone from me that quickly. I'm really having a hard time accepting this. I just can't believe it.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Part of it is that they like to rewrite marital history. Makes it easier for them to do what they do.


----------



## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

Some people just fall out of love or lose feelings for the other person.

It happens.

Even if the marital history was excellent. It's called history because it's in the past.


----------



## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

Openminded said:


> Part of it is that they like to rewrite marital history. Makes it easier for them to do what they do.


This is my STBXH to a tee. He was telling me things about our past that had no basis in reality. Definitely the affair fog. He can find his way out by himself. Spends all his free time now at tacky bars and trying to hang out with girls half his age. So sad.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

I've got to say that in my opinion, our ever-changing norms and _mores_ pretty much dictate the type of fog that they are subjecting themselves to. There used to be at least an inate sense of remorse in the days of yore. But with rare exception, that really doesn't occur anymore.

More often than not, these straying people fastly "180," then emotionally abandon their marriage partner; then they confide in, flirt with, and then fornicate with the OP like they were newlyweds; usually occurring with the BS rarely ever finding out a damn thing regarding the WS sordid actions.

These days, it appears to be nothing more than just a shameful sense of self-entitlement that causes people to stray, with little to no remorse for the people that it ultimately comes to effect!


----------



## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

My stbxh lived that way...could be happy and love you one day...and want a divorce the next. My only explination is he was a head case. He lacked remorse and compassion and sympathy...empathy...and any other 'athy out there...

yep head case. It's the only conclusion that fits my situation..


----------



## philglossop (Apr 22, 2013)

Personally, I think the Fog has a lot to answer for. If the last 5 year were so damn bad in my case why did he stick around? Coward perhaps.

All I keep getting is ILUBINILWU and lets be friends. Whilst he's trying to get on with his new 17 year younger partner, who has no idea of just what hard work STBXH really is. I'm firmly of the idea that I'm Plan B, but STBXH doen't understand just how much stronger I am now.

Besides why would/should I trust them again?


----------



## Juicy (Nov 15, 2011)

I totally get where you're coming from. My H just left me recently and he seems all fine, he's got his job, all our 'friends' are on his side, and it is unfair. It's just like how can someone stop loving you and act like you never existed? In my case my H doesn't even want to talk to me anymore, like the past 5 years didn't happen
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

This fog comes on so quick that the WS's give so very little, if any time to actually think about the hurt they are causing to their BS counterparts and their loved ones, that all that really seems relavent anymore is the hurried emotional dissolution of the married relationship and the accendance into the illicit one.

I don't believe that it was in this particular thread, but someone else so aptly pointed out that the fog was so thick with the WS, that in rushing to consumate the illicit relationship, that far too often, the cheaters, without even giving it the least amount of thought, dive head first into having unprotected sex with their affair partner, richly thinking that this illicit relationship, is now their "new marriage or committment."

Then, while either doing the 180 on their spouse or just the routine cake-eating back at home, so as not to arouse any element of precursory suspicion from their spouse, they continue to deceptively have normal unprotected marital sex with the marriage partner, greatly ranging from the obligatory to the zealous.

Once the "cat is out of the bag" about the AP and/or the 180 is, or is nearing completion, then they won't give the BS the time of day!

Unless, of course, they want something!


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> This fog comes on so quick that the WS's give so very little, if any time to actually think about the hurt they are causing to their BS counterparts and their loved ones, that all that really seems relavent anymore is the hurried emotional dissolution of the married relationship and the accendance into the illicit one.
> 
> I don't believe that it was in this particular thread, but someone else so aptly pointed out that the fog was so thick with the WS, that in rushing to consumate the illicit relationship, that far too often, the cheaters, without even giving it the least amount of thought, dive head first into having unprotected sex with their affair partner, richly thinking that this illicit relationship, is now their "new marriage or committment."
> 
> ...


Really well put. It's why The 180/Detachment is key for any BS. 

It's the only way to lessen the damage and the time to sort yourself out; before a decision can be made.


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Well I'm the partner who wants to walk away and initiate divorce, but I'm staying to work on it. I can tell you that it's tremendously difficult to work on a marriage that you don't want to be in. 

I don't know how someone's feelings can flip so quickly. My guess is that they didn't, the walk-away spouses just didn't own to to themselves what was going on, and therefore couldn't own up to you. Or some of them are probably just entitled and self-centered, honestly. No matter how miserable you are in a marriage, looking outside of it is wrong. I feel entitled to say that, because I've been miserable and still 100% faithful.

I can say that there is a while when you start to realize that you're losing feelings that you just keep it to yourself, on the hopes that it's just a temporary slump and you'll come out of it on your own. Then you start to realize that it's more than that, and in my case at least, you spend a few months worried that a serious talk will hurt your spouse's feelings, so you delay. Meanwhile things get worse and worse. Then, if you don't have good communication skills, I can imagine how things would really start to tank... feeling like you are communicating something that you're really not, building resentment... then without good boundaries, it seems like it'd be really easy to ease into an EA, then a PA... but for the walk-away spouse, if they have normal, human feelings, it was a process that you just didn't know about.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

I remember all too well that when our "trial separation" officially began, STBXW walked me to the back door and kissed me, internally, unilaterally, and deceptively knowing (unlike myself) that I would not be coming back!

Several days later when she had a load of my furniture delivered to my new rental abode, I tried to kiss her "goodbye," and she violently turned her face away from me.

A day or two later, I and my two sons showed up at our joint home to pick up more of my personal items, and all she kept vociferously mimicking was the term "Awkward!!!" 

Fast forward a year and her response to a mutual friend was, "He's a nice guy, but needs to get a clue. I don't wish him bad, let's be done and just be friends." Seemed so very placating and self-justifying, all at the same time.

And then coming around full circle, I think back to her written remark to one of her BF's not even two full months prior to the separation, "And that 'talking thing' that leads to that 'non-talking' thing is what I call verbal foreplay. When that's great, you can only imagine that the other will be too!"

All of this while I'm very much still at home serving as the Man of the House! And happily sleeping in the very same bed with her!

From this example, "the fog" set in very early, and never really burned-off," serving my STBXW's sordid activities so very well! It literally sickens me to my stomach to have to even verbally relive that deception of hers!


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

northernlights said:


> Well I'm the partner who wants to walk away and initiate divorce, but I'm staying to work on it. I can tell you that it's tremendously difficult to work on a marriage that you don't want to be in.
> 
> I don't know how someone's feelings can flip so quickly. My guess is that they didn't, the walk-away spouses just didn't own to to themselves what was going on, and therefore couldn't own up to you. Or some of them are probably just entitled and self-centered, honestly. No matter how miserable you are in a marriage, looking outside of it is wrong and it's cowardly. I feel entitled to say that, because I've been miserable and still 100% faithful.
> 
> I can say that there is a while when you start to realize that you're losing feelings that you just keep it to yourself, on the hopes that it's just a temporary slump and you'll come out of it on your own. Then you start to realize that it's more than that, and in my case at least, you spend a few months worried that a serious talk will hurt your spouse's feelings, so you delay. Meanwhile things get worse and worse. Then, if you don't have good communication skills, I can imagine how things would really start to tank... feeling like you are communicating something that you're really not, building resentment... then without good boundaries, it seems like it'd be really easy to ease into an EA, then a PA... but for the walk-away spouse, if they have normal, human feelings, it was a process that you just didn't know about.


Northern: At least nowadays, you are the true exception much rather than the rule. You are trying to ethically, play by the rules and not doing anything of a deceptive nature. There's nothing "foggy" about you in my opinion. You've fought the good fight, think that moving on is a viable option, but choose to stay and try just one more time to offer rights to the wrongs! For that, I cannot help but commend you!

Conversely, I cannot help but think that those who have so voluntarily entered into that infidelic "fog field," while self-justifyingly thinking that they are richly entitled to their deceptive activities and to further have the inalienable right to reap whatever dividends that they can derive from it, regardless of the hurt and the pain that they may either, knowingly or unknowingly, convey to others through their own selfish actions!


----------



## mrtickle (Jan 29, 2013)

Interesting thread.

I think the key reasons for the switch off has been covered, and are mainly :

1) The 'checking out' of the marriage happens long before the BS is aware of the seriousness of the situation, giving the WS the opportunity to adjust gradually to the idea and appear lacking in emotion post-split.

2) The rationalising of the situation by way of re-writing history and convincing others (including the OM/OW and themselves) that their actions are completely justified, and the faults lie with the BS and not themselves.

3) The dopamine rush they get from a new emotional partner prevents rational, empathetic or balanced behaviour. Everything is exciting, new and shiny and the boring or unpleasant realities of life do not exist any more. It's a roller-coaster they don't want to get off and the last thing they want to do is invest emotional energy in feeling bad about stuff.

4) At the point where the decision is made to split by the WS (regardless of whether at this point in time the BS is even aware of the situation), their 'commitment' is towards their new partner. If the BS were to have sex with the WS after this point, the over-riding emotion from the WS would be guilt, but not guilt in how they are treating - or about to treat - the BS, but guilt for not staying faithful to their new partner. The day of the big reveal to the BS generally allows the WS to drop their pretense and act, and move headlong towards formalising their relationship with OM/OW, regardless of whether it will end up lasting or not. They therefore, don't need to pretend any more and instead look like they are switching-off.

All have certainly been true in my case, although my STBXW often looks like she is not having a 'fun' time when I do see her and is often tearful (although not tears for me, I don't think). The one time I managed to spend a few afternoons in succession with her since she left in February, we started bonding rapidly and were emotionally connecting in a surprising way. I put this down to a problem in her relationship with OM, and sure enough a day or two later once she was back at work and in contact with him again, she pulled back again to almost 'dark' communications.

I think the one thing that keeps surprising me about all this stuff, is how predictable and scripted it all seems.


----------



## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

mrtickle said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> I think the key reasons for the switch off has been covered, and are mainly :
> 
> ...


I agree entirely, Mr T - but then again our stories are quite similar.

One of the things that my STBXW keeps saying to me is that I am not at the same stage of giving up on the marriage and I need to catch up with her. She was already done when DDay came around. The only thing I'm not entirely certain about is what stage the relationship with OM was at at that point. I think he was the focus of her fantasies of a new life and he quickly became a reality. 

As others know, my STBXW is absolutely shameless in her relationship with OM. She sees absolutely nothing wrong with hopping straight from DDay into a relationship with another man within days - whilst she is still married. She genuinely does not understand why this should be a problem. If I say anything at all about it she thinks that i am the one with the problem. 

OTOH, she's getting the divorce she wanted, she's got the relationship she wanted with POSOM and yet she looks miserable. She says she is living llife "one day at a time". And that's living the dream? I hate to think what's going to happen when reality bites.


----------



## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Wow, have to chime in in this one. Great thread. I like arbitrator's perspective & some others as well. 

It's a mystery to me how people can walk away like the marriage meant nothing. The kids "will be fine," and then the WASs move into new relationships like we did back when we were all dating and single. 5,10,15, even 20 years and greater of marriage and no remorse, looking back, nothing. 

Odd indeed. 

My xW & I were prolific picture/ video takers. It's interesting now that I know about NPD that she always wanted to take a picture of just herself too. No husband or even kids. I never thought it was odd at the time but now I realize it was the NPD. I can count the pictures of just me at about a dozen out of over 7,000 pictures in 13 years. I cannot even count just the pics of her. Maybe about 1,000. 

The reason I mention this is because the selfish behavior seems to be a bit of a pattern by those who leave & never look back. Others have said that the WAS was probably unhappy for awhile & once they decided to leave, it was easy. I guess there could be something to that but I look at it from my perspective. What would I have done if I started to fall out of love with my spouse?

Well, that's a tough one because unless my x was doing something repeatedly that was turning me off, I don't think it would be possible for me. I took my wedding vows seriously. My xW did not. If I did start falling out of love, I would have made it super clear. I would have formally confronted her, I would have wanted counseling, etc. 

This adds to the mystery, IMO. Why wouldn't the WAS let their feelings be known in order to work on the marriage?? Weird. 

I honestly think there is a psychological dysfunction that takes over, really. Something overrides their common sense & decency. I mean, my xW was with me for 14 years. Now she was far from perfect but I think I would have noticed a change in how she acted in stressful situations. This flight mentality that controls their behavior might be their ego run amok. The ego, encouraged by the media, the culture, etc. convinces them that somehow their spouse and/ or their marriage us keeping them from the happiness they deserve. 

Once this occurs, I believe they begin to devalue their spouse, children, etc. to the point where walking away totally makes sense. And, it appears to me that most of these WASs will be bound & determined to find this elusive lost "happiness". Rarely will they ever admit they made a mistake. There are exceptions, like if they hit emotional or financial rock bottom but typically they convince themselves they are far better off away from the marriage. Strange.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

ExisaWAW said:


> I honestly think there is a psychological dysfunction that takes over, really. Something overrides their common sense & decency. I mean, my xW was with me for 14 years. Now she was far from perfect but I think I would have noticed a change in how she acted in stressful situations. This flight mentality that controls their behavior might be their ego run amok. The ego, encouraged by the media, the culture, etc. convinces them that somehow their spouse and/ or their marriage us keeping them from the happiness they deserve.
> 
> Once this occurs, I believe they begin to devalue their spouse, children, etc. to the point where walking away totally makes sense. And, it appears to me that most of these WASs will be bound & determined to find this elusive lost "happiness". Rarely will they ever admit they made a mistake. There are exceptions, like if they hit emotional or financial rock bottom but typically they convince themselves they are far better off away from the marriage. Strange.


I think that it is actually a change of perspective rather than an dysfunction per se. They gradually get fixed into the mindset where they are unhappy, they pin the blame for that on spouse or marriage, and conclude that something other than spouse or mariage (an affair or a divorce) is what they need to make them happy and whole again. 

Then they suffer cognitive dissonance - this view conflicts with their moral beliefs and their good feelings and memories of the marriage and the spouse. So those have to change to get rid of the dissonance (which we know humans can't sustain for long). This is the fog - changed morals, changed priorities, rewritten history, spouse deemed to be the worst person in the world, affair seen as the only option (so justifiable), AP (real or imaginary) seen as angel/knight who has come to rescue them.


----------



## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I also don't understand how the love is lost without a fight. I tend towards thinking it's just something in their personalities that means that they can't fight for what they want. Or maybe they were never attached in the first place, in which case, you don't want them anyway.

I mean, you're married, you've built a life together on love and connection and shared plans and dreams, and then when one of you feels a little less love, you jump right into "it's over"?

I mean, that's what their minds have to do, right - I think my x was so black and white that at the moment he had his first doubt, he may not have even thought it was possible to change that, work on it, communicate with me, etc.

Marriage is about two people - how can one person feel a shift in the relationship or in their feelings without communicating it? I'm sorry, but there's no way keeping that huge stuff to yourself is helpful unless you are positive you want a divorce from the get go. And then, you're just a jerk, cause at the get go is when it's supposed to be most together.

Sorry for the harshness, but really. We live in a culture now where yes, marriage is disposable, self-fulfillment is number one (and believed by some to be incompatible with marriage and commitment) - but we also live in a time when there are no black and white situations. There are so many books and watered-down sitcoms focusing on the topic of marriage - the complexities and stresses of modern life, with kids, the juggling act - that if you've shared vows with someone and then later think that, because you "changed your mind" or "feel differently" or "don't know what you want anymore", you're allowed to just leave that marriage? You're wrong. Do your reading. 

Marriage takes work. Life takes work. Understanding yourself is a path, a way forward that many of us don't want to do alone, and when you commit to doing with with another, especially when you accept the responsibility of bringing children into the world, you have a HUGE responsibility to walk beside that person through thick and thin. DO the work. Communicate. Fight, **** up, apologize, get help, repeat. 

It's the highest calling there is. If you're with someone who doesn't get it, or have been left by someone who doesn't get it - IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, AFTER YOU'VE TRIED EVERYTHING!!! - then I guess you have to accept that they aren't a match for you, they aren't rising to the challenge, and that you can do better.

I think this is where the kids will be fine, in the end, if they realize that you are a person of substance and if you can ease up on the bitterness and anger in order to pass on to them your beliefs about commitment and growth and fulfillment. 

Tall order, for sure. And as always, all my "you"'s are really directed at myself.

Make it a good day, friends. You have the power!


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> Conversely, I cannot help but think that the those who have entered into that infidelic "fog field," self-justifyingly think that they are richly entitled to their deceptive activities and have the inalienable right to reap whatever dividends that they can from it, regardless of the hurt and the pain that they may knowingly or unknowingly convey to others through their own selfish actions!


Thank you for the compliment! I wish my H saw it that way, but he's still in a fog of his own. 

I do have a secret weapon against infidelity that I have to share. I don't shave my legs or armpits. H doesn't mind, and I swear it's totally a man-repellent. I'm a decent-looking lady and can still rock a bikini after two kids (if you go for the way too skinny look anyway!), but one flash of armpit hair and the men go running. You gotta do what you gotta do, you know?! Marriage is hard and fidelity doesn't happen by luck!

So, now you know my secret.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

NL: The men don't really seem to have problems with that in Europe either!


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> NL: The men don't really seem to have problems with that in Europe either!


My H is European! If we can't make this work, I'll definitely have to start shaving again (we're in the US). Ugh! But I'll take motivation wherever I can get it.


----------



## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Voltaire, I think we are saying the same thing, really. I say dysfunction, you say change of perspective, followed by cognitive dissonance followed by fog. I mean, the fog, as we call it, is pretty darned dysfunctional. One thing is for sure, it's not logical. I don't recognize my xW anymore. She's a completely different person. It's like an alien invaded her brain. 

She doesn't think the way she used to, doesn't have the values she used to, etc., etc. I just want to get out if this funk & get her out if my mind completely. I'm doin the 180, lookin for another high-paying job (challenging in this economy), etc., etc. but it's a slow recovery. We'll all make it back to "normal" in our own time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_I mean, you're married, you've built a life together on love and connection and shared plans and dreams, and then when one of you feels a little less love, you jump right into "it's over"?


Marriage takes work. Life takes work. Understanding yourself is a path, a way forward that many of us don't want to do alone, and when you commit to doing with with another, especially when you accept the responsibility of bringing children into the world, you have a HUGE responsibility to walk beside that person through thick and thin. DO the work. Communicate. Fight, **** up, apologize, get help, repeat. _

You sum it up well. I think most of the cheaters have emotionally checked out well in advance of an affair. They don't want to do the work, to choose to love their spouse, let us know there's a problem.

They're lacking something within. Once they check out, they are now open to advances from the opposite sex, especially someone who will listen to the story of their "terrible" marriage.

Many will tell you they love you right up to ILYBIDLY (like my ex did). It's very hard to accept.


----------



## mrtickle (Jan 29, 2013)

To be honest, I'm sure there are some genuine walk-away spouses who leave because their relationship really is abusive, they have been deeply unhappy for some time and no amount of discussion counselling has fixed it, or there really is mental illness behind the irrational behaviour.

But from my own situation, and just about everyone elses I read about here, it seems that if a spouse CLAIMS unhappiness, especially if over a short time frame, and REFUSES to work properly on fixing things or claims its 'Too Late' and then leaves the relationship with what appears to be little in the way of emotion and they are just 'switching the love off', then I think its only really one of two reasons :

1. They have won the lottery and haven't told you

or

2. They have started a relationship with someone else

I'm only saying this because in the context of the question on this thread, I think the relationship *with the other person* is far more critical in the WAS ' behaviour than the relationship with the BS.


----------



## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

mrtickle said:


> To be honest, I'm sure there are some genuine walk-away spouses who leave because their relationship really is abusive, they have been deeply unhappy for some time and no amount of discussion counselling has fixed it, or there really is mental illness behind the irrational behaviour.
> 
> But from my own situation, and just about everyone elses I read about here, it seems that if a spouse CLAIMS unhappiness, especially if over a short time frame, and REFUSES to work properly on fixing things or claims its 'Too Late' and then leaves the relationship with what appears to be little in the way of emotion and they are just 'switching the love off', then I think its only really one of two reasons :
> 
> ...


In my case what I believe is that my ex decided at some point in the past that I have a mental illness - he would mention it occasionally, or to friends, or take out books from the library on borderline personality disorder, etc. For me to get upset at these things seemed like it would prove his point, though I did often try to talk through the issues we had, explain why I was upset. He never really got it.

I think he was always on guard for any "irrational" behaviour from me...when things seemed good, it was like he was just waiting, and then, the next time I expressed any emotion, like frustration with him or sadness or even despair (because he would do things like suggest we break up, or pull back from plans we had already made)...he would BAM! accuse me of being unreasonable. 

Why, oh why didn't we address these things properly? I tried. I constantly talked to him about seeing a counsellor, and we did, for short periods, and then things seemed to get better so we (stupidly) stopped going. I think he may have been bluffing all along. 

Anyway, just breaks my heart to think about being so misunderstood, and how I tried and was ready to keep trying, but he wasn't. And now he's moving on thinking, perhaps, that he's some kind of hero for escaping the clutches of such a mentally ill woman...

Oh well, I guess he'll never know what kind of commitment I had to our lives and how much I wanted to be happy together - and was prepared to do the work as well.

Thanks for allowing me to vent a little.


----------



## GettingBetter (Mar 7, 2013)

ExisaWAW said:


> My xW & I were prolific picture/ video takers. It's interesting now that I know about NPD that she always wanted to take a picture of just herself too. No husband or even kids. I never thought it was odd at the time but now I realize it was the NPD. I can count the pictures of just me at about a dozen out of over 7,000 pictures in 13 years. I cannot even count just the pics of her. Maybe about 1000.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Man, we were married to the same person!!!! I read most of your posts and all I can sa is WOW!!!!...too many similarities between our exes.


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Lewis1973 said:


> Bit of an aside here....but I find it amazing reading the threads here (and books on the subject) and my own situation........
> 
> I used to wonder how on earth people got divorced - it just didnt make sense that you could love someone and then become the enemies you often see couples become.
> 
> ...



Me too . Although as I just finished talking about in another thread , I guess x thought my love switch was off.
And really , it was for 18 mths but it just goes to show because around our separation time I had a light bulb moment and realized I did still love her more than anything. Week later I get the letter . Apparently I switched hers off.

Thing is , she originally switched mine of yet it went back on . So will hers ?


----------



## philglossop (Apr 22, 2013)

ExisaWAW said:


> Voltaire, I think we are saying the same thing, really. I say dysfunction, you say change of perspective, followed by cognitive dissonance followed by fog. I mean, the fog, as we call it, is pretty darned dysfunctional. One thing is for sure, it's not logical. I don't recognize my xW anymore. She's a completely different person. It's like an alien invaded her brain.
> 
> She doesn't think the way she used to, doesn't have the values she used to, etc., etc. I just want to get out if this funk & get her out if my mind completely. I'm doin the 180, lookin for another high-paying job (challenging in this economy), etc., etc. but it's a slow recovery. We'll all make it back to "normal" in our own time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh this Fog is certainly dis-functional. As I said to my BIL just after the split date, it's like watching a very slow car crash which you can't stop happening.

I can honestly say, I'm the same, I just don't recognize my STBXH anymore. It's very sickening to hear stories of how his life has moved on and that the last 11 years just never happened. The OM is clearly the knight in shining armor.

When the Fog will clear it's going to be very interesting to see actually what is left of the person that I loved and worked hard in our Civil Partnership is. I honestly think (and to a degree) hope that it's a shell of that person I fell in love with some 11 years ago.

But I somehow doubt it.

The lyrics of this song ring so true

I'm a deeper shade of blue
And there's nothing I can do
You're so far, far away
Yeah, I'm a darker shade of me
And I just can't be free
You're so far, far away
You're so far away


Read more: STEPS - DEEPER SHADE OF BLUE LYRICS


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

Is it always because they've found someone else or is it just because they've already gone through the detatchment process? I mean, at this point in my case, it doesn't really matter but I'm just curious. My ex claims that there is no one else and that she just wants a break from relationships because she doesn't want to be hurt anymore. Looking back at how I treated her a lot of the time and speaking to other women on this forum who have filed for divorce from their husbands for similar reasons, I can sort of see where she's coming from. She would ask me to do certain things throughout the course of our marriage and I would be successful for a short period of time then I would revert back to my old ways. She just doesn't trust me in that the changes will stick. Again, I get that. My track record isn't great. I just feel so helpless. I know exactly what to do to make things better and she won't give me the chance.


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

I can't shake eminem's - 
love the way you lie.

The rest doesn't match but the title sure does .


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

mrtickle said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> I think the key reasons for the switch off has been covered, and are mainly :
> 
> ...


So MT , how do you actually feel about spending that time with her when she's done this and has an om ?


----------



## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

hank_rea said:


> Is it always because they've found someone else or is it just because they've already gone through the detatchment process?


Effectively the same thing, isn't it? When you fall for someone else isn't detachment almost instant in most cases - leaving only a bit of guilt that you have detached so quickly, which quickly fades.


----------



## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> Effectively the same thing, isn't it? When you fall for someone else isn't detachment almost instant in most cases - leaving only a bit of guilt that you have detached so quickly, which quickly fades.


Not for me. I can look back to every LTR I ever had & still have fond memories. Each woman I dated for a long period took awhile to get over. Now, if I was just dating, I detached quickly because there wasn't much emotionally invested. I may be the exception, but if I was with someone for say 6 months, I didn't jump right into another relationship. There was a brief grieving process before moving on. Just me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

ExisaWAW said:


> Not for me. I can look back to every LTR I ever had & still have fond memories. Each woman I dated for a long period took awhile to get over. Now, if I was just dating, I detached quickly because there wasn't much emotionally invested. I may be the exception, but if I was with someone for say 6 months, I didn't jump right into another relationship. There was a brief grieving process before moving on. Just me?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


good point. I guess I was talking about rebound or fog-bound relationships when someone rushes into a new relationship to escape the old. That's not healthy, unlike your measured approach.


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> Effectively the same thing, isn't it? When you fall for someone else isn't detachment almost instant in most cases - leaving only a bit of guilt that you have detached so quickly, which quickly fades.


I wouldn't know. I've never fallen for someone else while currently in a relationship.


----------



## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Me neither Hank. Great point. We are a different breed, apparently. Nowadays it seems to just be accepted that people might up & leave without regret. Very strange for ppl like us to even fathom. That's why we're here, searching for answers. I don't think we're ever going to find them though, really. 

There are a lot of different reasons why ppl do/ act the way they do. The memories I have of my 13 yrs of marriage were nothing short of magical; the year of dating my xW before, the beautiful girls we brought into the world, even the less important materialistic stuff like awesome vacations, houses, etc, etc.. What helps me carry on is that something clearly changed in my xw's mind where none of these memories mattered anymore. And, I really don't want to be in a relationship with someone who could so quickly devalue our dreams and the beautiful life we worked so hard to build.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

I really wish I could see my ex wife in a negative light....the way she's been treating me lately certainly should give me plenty of reasons to. All I feel, though, is regret....it feels like it's all my fault. And all I want is to make it up to her. I know she's got me being her doormat and that the failure of our marriage is on her as well, but I just remember how poorly I treated her and how I legitimately DID NOT appreciate her. It just seems like I'm being punished for not valuing my wife when she was there...now she's not and she no longer values me.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> Effectively the same thing, isn't it? When you fall for someone else isn't detachment almost instant in most cases - leaving only a bit of guilt that you have detached so quickly, which quickly fades.


Even if there is a scintilla of any inherent guilt on the part of the WS, it would only tend to come up when they are out of the presence of their new love interest and back into the presence of their marriage partner ~ and that's largely contingent upon whether or not that their biological "dopamine high," derived from their newfound illicit relationship, has effectively worn off or not!


----------



## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Arb, that's an interesting point. I'm finally at the stage where my fog is lifted & I can honestly say I don't love my ex anymore. I have had veteran moderators on this site & others tell me to to be careful because my xW may try to come back one day! WTF?! Now I will believe that when I see it. Actually, no, even if I see it I won't believe it, lol. 

After 9 mos of a relationship with her current BF, I would have expected the dopamine high to have subsided by now. My sitch may be different because my x exited with over half a million & I still haven't found another high paying job. I was told they once I am back on my feet, I will look more attractive to her (the 180 is in full swing). I suppose anything is possible but that's the farthest thing from my mind these days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> Effectively the same thing, isn't it? When you fall for someone else isn't detachment almost instant in most cases - leaving only a bit of guilt that you have detached so quickly, which quickly fades.


I would imagine in their mind , fog , bs state , it's almost instant at the time but , I just can't believe it's instant 12 mths later when the real world kicks back in , would you ?


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> Not for me. I can look back to every LTR I ever had & still have fond memories. Each woman I dated for a long period took awhile to get over. Now, if I was just dating, I detached quickly because there wasn't much emotionally invested. I may be the exception, but if I was with someone for say 6 months, I didn't jump right into another relationship. There was a brief grieving process before moving on. Just me?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've always been like that too. One reason I just can't even comprehend destroying a marriage , a family , your children and years together yesterday and being with someone else today.
I will never get that.


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> Me neither Hank. Great point. We are a different breed, apparently. Nowadays it seems to just be accepted that people might up & leave without regret. Very strange for ppl like us to even fathom. That's why we're here, searching for answers. I don't think we're ever going to find them though, really.
> 
> There are a lot of different reasons why ppl do/ act the way they do. The memories I have of my 13 yrs of marriage were nothing short of magical; the year of dating my xW before, the beautiful girls we brought into the world, even the less important materialistic stuff like awesome vacations, houses, etc, etc.. What helps me carry on is that something clearly changed in my xw's mind where none of these memories mattered anymore. And, I really don't want to be in a relationship with someone who could so quickly devalue our dreams and the beautiful life we worked so hard to build.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



It just gob smacks me that the women seem even better and colder at it than men. With the children and everything, doesn't even seem to faze them


----------



## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

whitehawk said:


> I would imagine in their mind , fog , bs state , it's almost instant at the time but , I just can't believe it's instant 12 mths later when the real world kicks back in , would you ?


I have an opinion here about those women who are technically WAWs. These women, IMO, build up a wall around themselves that doesn't allow anything to penetrate it that goes against the decision they've made. Right or wrong, they've convinced themselves that they're not happy & their spouse and/ or their marriage is to blame. Period. These WAWs often NEVER feel remorse or doubt their decisions. 

Now, WSs sometimes come back. Most do because they realize the grass is not greener (break up w/ Mr. Wonderful, etc.), or they suffer financially, or they see their ex spouse moving on nicely with another woman or just looking good. But for the most part, neither WSs or WASs ever really look back. It's probably a good thing for us anyway because in our weakened emotional state, we'd probably take them back, only to be cheated on later when they get another chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> I agree entirely, Mr T - but then again our stories are quite similar.
> 
> One of the things that my STBXW keeps saying to me is that I am not at the same stage of giving up on the marriage and I need to catch up with her. She was already done when DDay came around. The only thing I'm not entirely certain about is what stage the relationship with OM was at at that point. I think he was the focus of her fantasies of a new life and he quickly became a reality.
> 
> ...



Yeah mine looks worse than ever when I saw her tonight.
Her health is worse and worse to yet in our finale two years her bad health was suppose to be from our stress so it must be even more stressful now.She also text me one night admitting how she'd just totally fkd up so many things so badly.
I'm not sure what was going on that night , never did ask.

My response in my mind was , yep you sure fkg have ! Never said it though.


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> I have an opinion here about those women who are technically WAWs. These women, IMO, build up a wall around themselves that doesn't allow anything to penetrate it that goes against the decision they've made. Right or wrong, they've convinced themselves that they're not happy & their spouse and/ or their marriage is to blame. Period. These WAWs often NEVER feel remorse or doubt their decisions.
> 
> Now, WSs sometimes come back. Most do because they realize the grass is not greener (break up w/ Mr. Wonderful, etc.), or they suffer financially, or they see their ex spouse moving on nicely with another woman or just looking good. But for the most part, neither WSs or WASs ever really look back. It's probably a good thing for us anyway because in our weakened emotional state, we'd probably take them back, only to be cheated on later when they get another chance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yeah right .
The wall was my x to a T. I just could not believe how unaffected she seemed , even by my 11yr old d. NOTHING , was going to change her mind. 18 yrs was just not even there.
But later the guilt was way different and only the other night she admitted the guilt was still unbearable . That's the 3rd or 4th time she's spoken of her guilt.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hawk,

How are you doing?

We hear about her all the time.

We really don't care about her - one bit.


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

hank_rea said:


> Is it always because they've found someone else or is it just because they've already gone through the detatchment process? I mean, at this point in my case, it doesn't really matter but I'm just curious. My ex claims that there is no one else and that she just wants a break from relationships because she doesn't want to be hurt anymore. Looking back at how I treated her a lot of the time and speaking to other women on this forum who have filed for divorce from their husbands for similar reasons, I can sort of see where she's coming from. She would ask me to do certain things throughout the course of our marriage and I would be successful for a short period of time then I would revert back to my old ways. She just doesn't trust me in that the changes will stick. Again, I get that. My track record isn't great. I just feel so helpless. I know exactly what to do to make things better and she won't give me the chance.


Apparently , so someone was telling me who did truckloads of reading trying to save his marriage . Women wait until they've found someone else to leave the marriage , 9 times out of 10 they reckon.
He reckon is the women wants to leave you can almost guarantee they have an om.


----------



## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

whitehawk said:


> Yeah right .
> The wall was my x to a T. I just could not believe how unaffected she seemed , even by my 11yr old d. NOTHING , was going to change her mind. 18 yrs was just not even there.
> But later the guilt was way different and only the other night she admitted the guilt was still unbearable . That's the 3rd or 4th time she's spoken of her guilt.


Wow, I'm going to have to search for your thread. It's mind-blowing that she admitted that to you!! Again, every sitch is different & not all WSs will always act the same (but the similarities are uncanny, right?). There's a world of distance between admission if guilt to you (helps her clear a bad conscience) and true remorse & an offer to reconcile though, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Hawk,
> 
> How are you doing?
> 
> ...


Con , your back . Was this for me ?
Have I been going on too much about x ?


----------



## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

whitehawk said:


> Apparently , so someone was telling me who did truckloads of reading trying to save his marriage . Women wait until they've found someone else to leave the marriage , 9 times out of 10 they reckon.
> He reckon is the women wants to leave you can almost guarantee they have an om.


I've heard this too. In my sitch tho, once I exposed her affair, she still wanted out. She quickly dated other guys (she's drop dead gorgeous) but didn't have one lined up before she filed. 

I have also heard what your friend said. The way I've heard it described is it's like Tarzan, swinging from the trees. You don't let one vine go until you've got a firm grip on another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

whitehawk said:


> Con , your back . Was this for me ?
> Have I been going on too much about x ?


It's what's on your mind.

I want you to move forward for you.

If you want to talk about her, talk about how the dynamic changes between you when you take affirmative steps on your own behalf.

How are those coming along?


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> Wow, I'm going to have to search for your thread. It's mind-blowing that she admitted that to you!! Again, every sitch is different & not all WSs will always act the same (but the similarities are uncanny, right?). There's a world of distance between admission if guilt to you (helps her clear a bad conscience) and true remorse & an offer to reconcile though, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah I dunno . She was always , well before this , very good natured . Maybe that's still in there somewhere so the guilt moreso than others .


----------



## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

whitehawk said:


> Yeah I dunno . She was always , well before this , very good natured . Maybe that's still in there somewhere so the guilt moreso than others .


Good point. Mine was always unemotional & kept her feelings bottled up. Yours is probably is still somewhat good natured. But they can change, a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It's what's on your mind.
> 
> I want you to move forward for you.
> 
> ...


Yeah you are right Con , it's been too long. But I had some hope though of rec though you see so basically I'm still fishing, sussing . Should have had a thread actually , save a hell of a lot of repeating. 

At the same time though and thanks for asking , I'm not doing bad.
Any steps I take don't seem to change a thing with her but for me , big plans . Well not so big but nice . 
I've put the house up , my d and I have worked out where I'll move to and we both love the idea. It's a great decision and new start.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

whitehawk said:


> Yeah you are right Con , it's been too long. But I had some hope though of rec though you see so basically I'm still fishing, sussing . Should have had a thread actually , save a hell of a lot of repeating.
> 
> At the same time though and thanks for asking , I'm not doing bad.
> Any steps I take don't seem to change a thing with her but for me , big plans . Well not so big but nice .
> I've put the house up , my d and I have worked out where I'll move to and we both love the idea. It's a great decision and new start.


Exercise?

IC?


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> I've heard this too. In my sitch tho, once I exposed her affair, she still wanted out. She quickly dated other guys (she's drop dead gorgeous) but didn't have one lined up before she filed.
> 
> I have also heard what your friend said. The way I've heard it described is it's like Tarzan, swinging from the trees. You don't let one vine go until you've got a firm grip on another.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Oh Jesus , pretty well sums it up doesn't it. Not a nice thought really , sad.


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Exercise?
> 
> IC?


Well that's a funny thing . Apart from still smoking , I'm looking pretty damn good these days , new clothes and stuff too, eating well .
And someones been noticing , tiny piece of karma for me speaking of dynamics .
Seems to be a slight undertone to about my move and new area , I like to call it envy


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

PS , damn nice to see you back to btw C.


----------



## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

philglossop said:


> Personally, I think the Fog has a lot to answer for. If the last 5 year were so damn bad in my case why did he stick around? Coward perhaps.
> 
> All I keep getting is ILUBINILWU and lets be friends. Whilst he's trying to get on with his new 17 year younger partner, who has no idea of just what hard work STBXH really is. I'm firmly of the idea that I'm Plan B, but STBXH doen't understand just how much stronger I am now.
> 
> Besides why would/should I trust them again?


Ugh I know this feeling all too well. My STBXH is so high maintenance. Even in the "love" letters I read between them he was very self-centered. I was totally plan B while he cultivated this new relationship. 

"The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places." - Hemingway


----------



## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

"The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places." - Hemingway

Thanks for this, BNW.


----------

