# Once a cheater....always a cheater?!



## beachbabe (May 11, 2012)

*Curious? *Has anyone cheated once and never has again or ever will? And *WHY*?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

once a cheater always a cheater because you can't erase the past they already cheated.

will they cheat again.....the possibility is strong.

I know that for me if I find out the person I was dating cheated on a former lover then its a deal breaker. lots of fish in the sea and I'd rather be with one that dosen't already have a bad reputation as a cheater.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Former cheater here and I don't agree with this. Are some cheaters hopeless? I'd say so. But not all. If someone confesses to the BS without getting caught chances are they really are remorseful. Thats what I did.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Former cheater here and I don't agree with this. Are some cheaters hopeless? I'd say so. But not all. If someone confesses to the BS without getting caught chances are they really are remorseful. Thats what I did.


:iagree: People can and do change everyday. There are some people who cheat once and never do it again and others who cheat time and again. The cheater can absolutely change - the damage they have done can not.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> If someone confesses to the BS without getting caught *chances are they really are remorseful.* Thats what I did.


My ex confessed without being caught by me because he wanted to end our relationship. 

And no, he was NEVER remorseful. No apology. No nothing.

Vega


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Vega said:


> My ex confessed without being caught by me because he wanted to end our relationship.
> 
> And no, he was NEVER remorseful. No apology. No nothing.
> 
> Vega


I'm sorry. I wasn't thinking of that scenario. It is true that the motive of the confession could be to announce that they are leaving.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

The propensity to betray and the use of betrayal as a way to solve problems or get ones kicks is always part of you. However, that does not guarantee one actually physically betrays again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Once a cheater always a cheater does not apply in all cases.

I've read that for most it's one time bad thing they get caught up in.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

I cheated tons before marriage and have been faithful for 17 years now!! 

I do believe for many it requires a life event of some sort...I know for me it did.


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## havenrose33 (Aug 7, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Former cheater here and I don't agree with this. Are some cheaters hopeless? I'd say so. But not all. If someone confesses to the BS without getting caught chances are they really are remorseful. Thats what I did.


When my marriage hit a difficult time ten years into it, my husband had an affair. I would not have known, if he had not come to me and confessed and asked me to forgive him, and work on our marriage. I honestly thought that he would never cheat again. Now....here we are 20 years later, and he once again made the choice to have an affair. Because of poor communication he made a choice that has forever changed our lives. So....I am having a difficult time right now with the....once a cheater, always a cheater question. Part of me wants to believe that he will never do it again, but after 31 years....and several affairs, I find it hard to truly believe. I think it is possible for men to be faithful after an affair, I just think if they got away with it once, they may feel they can get away with it again...


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

I did . I have not again . I won't. But like an addict I still think about it.

So in the mind YES Once a cheater always a cheater


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> The propensity to betray and the use of betrayal as a way to solve problems or get ones kicks is always part of you. However, that does not guarantee one actually physically betrays again.


:iagree:


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> The propensity to betray and the use of betrayal as a way to solve problems or get ones kicks is always part of you. However, that does not guarantee one actually physically betrays again.


I agree with this. Cheaters have a charter flaw that can't be "cured". Controlled perhaps, but they ability to cheat will always be there.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Not qualified to say. But, you might consider asking any of the string of guys my ex cheated with what they think.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

In all cases no. But I imagine like most things in life if you cross that line even one time regardless of whatever reasons, you have a much higher propensity to do it again than those who haven't. To me someone who has cheated in the past is a HUUUUGGGEEE red flag, but not necessarily a deal breaker across the board. There are plenty of people out there who learn from the bad choices they make.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

havenrose33 said:


> I think it is possible for men to be faithful after an affair, I just think if they got away with it once, they may feel they can get away with it again...


Same applies to women.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

why take a chance being hooked up to a cheater or former cheater.

aside from it breaking up your family and having big finanical ramifications. if at all possible I think I would try to advoid having them in my life even if it were a male friend.

it shows poor moral charachter and judjment and lack of self control.

somebody with these qulifications most likley can't be counted on when you might really need them.


just calling a duck a duck.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> why take a chance being hooked up to a cheater or former cheater.
> 
> aside from it breaking up your family and having big finanical ramifications. if at all possible I think I would try to advoid having them in my life even if it were a male friend.
> 
> ...


Not really, this shows a very good lack of understanding, for some it is not about accountability or dependability and especially as a friend, either you are scorned and not over it or you have just met some real ar$e holes and they just happen to be cheaters too.

If you were to meet me today, not knowing this little snippet of information you would never think it possible that I could behave such a way.

SNIPPET= I had a comfort chick at home and banged anything with a pulse, this is cheating not by lying but by omission, carried on this way for over a year and a half. 

Please don't be so judge-mental.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

wranglerman said:


> Not really, this shows a very good lack of understanding, for some it is not about accountability or dependability and especially as a friend, either you are scorned and not over it or you have just met some real ar$e holes and they just happen to be cheaters too.
> 
> If you were to meet me today, not knowing this little snippet of information you would never think it possible that I could behave such a way.
> 
> ...


are you f***ing kidding me!!!!!!

please reread my post you make absolute no sence.


for me if I found out someone that I was in a relationship with had poor moral charachter like YOU did I would be gone. and thats my peroragitive. weather or not you are reformed or matures to not exhibit theses qualities any long would not matter to me. I would still be gone!


I teach my children to try their best to pick friends with good moral judjment and I myself try my best to do the same. so to advoid guilt by assoiation with people who use poor judjment.

no I also realise that this process of picking friend is not perfect but its the best we can do with what we know.

good day!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

quack,quack


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

wranglerman said:


> Not really, this shows a very good lack of understanding, for some it is not about accountability or dependability and especially as a friend, either you are scorned and not over it or you have just met some real ar$e holes and they just happen to be cheaters too.
> 
> If you were to meet me today, not knowing this little snippet of information you would never think it possible that I could behave such a way.
> 
> ...


I dont understand the bold. Are you saying that you were a cheater in one of your previous relationship?


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Yes I did, it was the dating period post horrible divorce, found myself completely lost and broken after it all and finding out all kinds of gory details about her affairs in the latter years of our marriage, I kind of hit rock bottom as I couldn't understand how she could be so mean and selfish to deny me almost anything more than basic "duty sex" and yet was caught on cctv in the gym having a gang-bang with 4 guys and doing things that she would never do for me.

After I stopped moping around I was dating, I dated a nice woman she was never going to be long term but she made me laugh and accepted the kids when I had them, but the trouble for me was that I just had no real feelings, from the marriage and then EXWs infidelities, a real messy divorce, I was numb and I do mean numb, zero self esteem, zero self confidence and depression had set in, I was well on the road to extreme alcoholism and substance abuse during that time too.

I just didn't care about anyone and became extremely selfish, there was only what I wanted and the new GF was already accustomed to me being away all week and the fact that I went to bars and stuff so I was free to do as I wished, and being at that point selfish and self consumed I wished to bang anything with a pulse and a smile, it was only when I grew tired of it all and actually wanted a proper relationship that I actually left the unknowing GF who to this day knows nothing of what I did behind her back, but I feel no guilt for that, she is far better off not knowing how ridiculous I was then, she sees me now and again and always comments on how different I am now and how lucky my wife is, she really does not know the half of it.

I make no excuses for how I have behaved in the past but I know that it is the past that has made me who I am today and today I am more than I have ever been.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Yeah, my WS has made promises that nothing like this will happen again. However my older brother is very doubtful, he's trying to be supportive but I suppose is also trying to prepare me for what he thinks is inevitable.

When she starts this new job which includes OS travel how will I be any the wiser? It would be so easy to fall for temptation again. I have to live with that. Having cheated on me I'd have to say that the odds are that she will do it again.


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## Jackie1607 (Jan 22, 2013)

I have cheated once. At that time I wasn't having a great relationship with my boyfriend. I had avoided sex with him for 8 months because I had lost interested in him sexually. But it didn't occurred to me that I wanted to break up with him because all of my friends and family recognized us as a perfect couple, which somehow I never doubted.

But then I had an affair with a co worker. I got caught by my boyfriend. I told him that I would not see the other man again, but I continued the affair. At the end I broke up with him and chose the other guy.

Ever since I have never cheated, and I am sure I will not cheat again.

But ironically, God has punished me for my cheating. Since then, I have been cheated twice. One is in my current relationship. It happened quite recently. (I posted a couple of threads about this.) 

My current boyfriend who cheated on me is different from me in terms of the cheating situation. He always said he loved me, but still cheated. With my ex who I cheated on, I wasn't in love at all. So although I am considering giving my current boyfriend a second chance, I am truly afraid that he might cheat again.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

beachbabe said:


> *Curious? *Has anyone cheated once and never has again or ever will? And *WHY*?


I have cheated once and have (so far we're 5 years past D-day) not done it again, nor will I ever do it again. Why?

I don't cheat again because I don't want to. It's not who I am. I am someone who made a mistake, learned and moved on. I have no DNA malfunction, I'm not addicted to cheating, I'm not men-crazy. Do I want to make the same mistake again? No! To me, it's a conscious choice.


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## Hartbrok (Jul 16, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I agree with this. Cheaters have a charter flaw that can't be "cured". Controlled perhaps, but they ability to cheat will always be there.


I think I agree with that. A lot of alcoholics don't drink, but they're still alcoholics.

I have had several relationships with women who came out of "bad relationships", where they cheated on their partners, (including the one that was the love of my life). I bought into their stories, and looked past their sins, since they were "_abused_". In each case, they cheated on me as well, justifying it because of _our_ relationship "_problems_". (With one, I was "too sarcastic". So of course, bringing another man into our house, the house *I* bought, was the only answer....) 

I have no doubt each one has, or will cheat on their subsequent relationships, and it will also be their partner's "_fault_". In a couple of cases I _know_ they have, since it was with me, though without my knowledge of their new relationships. 

Today, if I heard about *any* cheating, I'd run away immediately.



wranglerman said:


> Yes I did, it was the dating period post horrible divorce, found myself completely lost and broken after it all and finding out all kinds of gory details about her affairs in the latter years of our marriage, I kind of hit rock bottom as I couldn't understand how she could be so mean and selfish to deny me almost anything more than basic "duty sex" and yet was caught on cctv in the gym having a gang-bang with 4 guys and doing things that she would never do for me.
> 
> After I stopped moping around I was dating, I dated a nice woman she was never going to be long term but she made me laugh and accepted the kids when I had them, but the trouble for me was that I just had no real feelings, from the marriage and then EXWs infidelities, a real messy divorce, I was numb and I do mean numb, zero self esteem, zero self confidence and depression had set in, I was well on the road to extreme alcoholism and substance abuse during that time too.
> 
> ...


I worry the exact same thing will happen with me. I have days where I feel like, why bother being a good man, since it didn't mean spit to the women in my life.......

Your story scares me, and I am going to try to do everything possible to make sure I don't become the monster you did. I hope your ex-GF never finds out the truth.


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## Hartbrok (Jul 16, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> I have cheated once and have (so far we're 5 years past D-day) not done it again, nor will I ever do it again. Why?
> 
> I don't cheat again because I don't want to. It's not who I am. *I am someone who made a mistak*e, learned and moved on. I have no DNA malfunction, I'm not addicted to cheating, I'm not men-crazy. *Do I want to make the same mistake again? No! To me, it's a conscious choice.*


I'm sorry, a "_mistake_" is pouring orange juice instead of milk on your cereal in the morning. 

It's not putting a different penis inside you..... 

_That_ was a conscious choice.


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## Eleftherios (Aug 15, 2013)

Not all people are bad eggs. So I say no to this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

My first wife cheated, swore it would never happen again and then lo and behold, three years later cheated again. 

After that, my default position has become "once a cheater, always a cheater". Truth is, if it happens once with my current wife I won't be around to test this question again.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Paulination said:


> My first wife cheated, swore it would never happen again and then lo and behold, three years later cheated again.
> 
> After that, my default position has become "once a cheater, always a cheater". Truth is, if it happens once with my current wife I won't be around to test this question again.


That's what worries me - that she'll do it again. She has sworn it will not happen "I guarantee it...." How do I believe that? I can't, that is the sad fact - I can't trust her. Our relationship hit the skids and this was the way she made herself feel better and made us virtually irreparable - I can't get passed it.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Is that what he told you? Only guessing that so sorry if you are just wondering about it and no one has actually said that to you. 
If someone has, be VERY careful because you are already wondering about it. Consider whether there might be someone out there for you who HASN'T cheated. Then you won't have to live with that little doubt in your mind - because it will always be there e.g. he/she goes on a business trip, seems a bit down or remote, starts talking a lot about someone they work with, starts paying attention to their appearance... the list goes on. You will even read up on what the signs of cheating so you are prepared.
It's surprising just how many people there are out there who won't cheat even if tempted. For me the world is divided into those who will cheat and those who won't. 
Finally it may be lonely being on your own but that sure beats the hell out of being with someone you think could possibly cheat.
Once a cheater always a cheater? Sadly most of the time especially when a relationship loses its gloss, kids, mortgage, lots of years together etc etc.......YES.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Hartbrok said:


> I'm sorry, a "_mistake_" is pouring orange juice instead of milk on your cereal in the morning.
> 
> It's not putting a different penis inside you.....
> 
> _That_ was a conscious choice.



I made a wrong choice. I didn't have a different penis inside me, thank you.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> I have cheated once and have (so far we're 5 years past D-day) not done it again, nor will I ever do it again. Why?
> 
> I don't cheat again because I don't want to. It's not who I am. I am someone who made a mistake, learned and moved on. I have no DNA malfunction, I'm not addicted to cheating, I'm not men-crazy. Do I want to make the same mistake again? No! To me, it's a conscious choice.



You made a mistake in using the word "mistake" to refer to your cheating (and you did it twice in this response). It was a choice, plain and simple. How come you now feel your need/ desire to NOT cheat is a "conscious choice", but your one time cheating was a "mistake"? By continuing to refer to it as a mistake, you show that you have not learned, you are still justifying and not owning up. It was the same "conscious choice" that you are now making not to cheat just in the opposite direction.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Anyone can cheat if the "wrong" set of circumstances arises. Even those who say they never would or could - actually, they have the lowest defenses and are more likely to succumb in those wrong circumstances because they aren't sufficiently aware.

You can't erase past cheating, but I do think people are capable of reforming and be at far lower risk, and their awareness of the risk factors is the best deterrent.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> once a cheater always a cheater because you can't erase the past they already cheated.
> 
> will they cheat again.....the possibility is strong.
> 
> *I know that for me if I find out the person I was dating cheated on a former lover then its a deal breaker. *


I don't believe that once a cheater, always a cheater and that's why I am not anti-reconciliation in a lot of cases. However, like chillymorn, it is/would be a deal-breaker for me too if I found out someone I just began dating had cheated in the past. Been there, done that, got burned so lesson learned. 

I didn't want to be judgmental when I met my WS and found out my XWS cheated in the past. So I asked him lots of questions about it and everything I heard him say told me that he had learned from the experience, was remorseful, had matured from it and wouldn't do it again. He swore up and down that he would never cheat on me and if we were unhappy, he'd do the right thing and work on us or leave. Well, we all know why I'm here - he did cheat on me.

I just couldn't knowingly do it with someone I have no real investment in beyond a few weeks/months of dating. Just like I wouldn't go with someone that told me they beat their wife in the past but changed now. I believe people can change but I don't want to risk that much anymore. I think it's more fear and being once bitten, twice shy than judgment.



thatbpguy said:


> The propensity to betray and the use of betrayal as a way to solve problems or get ones kicks is always part of you. However, that does not guarantee one actually physically betrays again.


This is also a big reason why I'm fearful of reconciling with XWS. He did it in the past, he did it to me. What's to say he won't do it again. Why should I believe him NOW? 

What's more are the stories where someone cheats, they're remorseful and have twenty years of good behaviour, only to fall of the wagon and do it again. I couldn't imagine the devastation of reconciling, healing and reopening old wounds with a fresh one. How do you come back from that?


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> You made a mistake in using the word "mistake" to refer to your cheating (and you did it twice in this response). It was a choice, plain and simple. How come you now feel your need/ desire to NOT cheat is a "conscious choice", but your one time cheating was a "mistake"? By continuing to refer to it as a mistake, you show that you have not learned, you are still justifying and not owning up. It was the same "conscious choice" that you are now making not to cheat just in the opposite direction.


A mistake is an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong.
I used the word mistake instead of the word wrong choice or bad choice. If I go back and replace mistake with wrong choice, it still means the same to me. In my native tongue I would use both words interchangeably. To me, making a wrong choice is a mistake. 

No, it was not a conscious choice to cheat. It was a clouded choice. I didn't not take months to think about it, analyze it, I didn't do any soul searching trying to figure how just how I would be able to become a cheater. It might have been different with the cheater in your life or yourself.

Not cheating is a conscious choice. It's taken me a long time to think about what I did and why. It has taken a lot of analyzing and soul searching to understand why I ended up being someone I didn't really want to be, so I could become the person my husband wants to be married to. Again, it might be different with the cheater in your life or yourself.

If you want to believe that I haven't learned anything, that I'm making excuses for cheating, that I'm not owning up....you are entitled to your opinion.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> A mistake is an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong.
> I used the word mistake instead of the word wrong choice or bad choice. If I go back and replace mistake with wrong choice, it still means the same to me. In my native tongue I would use both words interchangeably. To me, making a wrong choice is a mistake.
> 
> No, it was not a conscious choice to cheat. It was a clouded choice. I didn't not take months to think about it, analyze it, I didn't do any soul searching trying to figure how just how I would be able to become a cheater. It might have been different with the cheater in your life or yourself.
> ...


You can continue to justify and change things to fit any situation as you desire and this is what you are doing here. The difference between the mistake and bad choice are the initial intent behind them and not the outcomes, as you tend to classify them by. With a mistake the original outcome intent was for something good/ positive to happen yet the opposite occurred for whatever reason beyond your control. There is no way that anyone can ever expect anything good to come out of cheating on someone else, therefor it can never be a mistake and has to be a bad choice/ decision (and to call it a mistake repeatedly is just gas lighting the action and not owning it, no matter what your native language is the intent behind the action doesn't change). 

I can play the same definition and semantic game with your definition of conscious, which means to be awake and aware of one's surroundings and environment. Hence a conscious decision would be one made with those situations in mind and not based upon lengthy thoughts and pondering like you suggest. Stop justifying and own your actions. You are again trying to downplay the cheating by insinuating that you didn't ponder it for a length therefor the decision was not consciously made, which again is wrong. Unless one is under the influence of some drug to change their state of mind or they are temporarily found mentally incompetent the decisions we make and the actions we perform are all consciously made, be it an impulse purchase or a long term pondered choice and everything in between. You can try and continue to gas light by changing the meaning of things and saying that maybe it is different for others than for you, but the same rules and assessments apply to you as they do to others. By changing the rules as they apply only to you is deflecting and not owning your actions. 

I am just saying own your actions and choices and that shows you are learning from them. To constantly blame shift and gas light just shows you are thinking more about defending yourself and your appearance than actually taking responsibility. Do you truly believe that all cheating is nothing more than a mistake, because if we use your definition then it is so (the same could be said for all types of abuses as well and no one ever thinks abuse was a mistake)?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

beachbabe said:


> *Curious? *Has anyone cheated once and never has again or ever will? And *WHY*?


There are a number of examples here on TAM. People cheat for a wide variety of reasons.

Drunken one night stands, damaged by a rape when they were a child, feeling hurt by the fact their spouse cheated on them or treated them like rubbish.

Not everyone who cheats will cheat again.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

beachbabe said:


> *Curious? *Has anyone cheated once and never has again or ever will? And *WHY*?


Yeah....my hubby is an example...but he was a serial cheater. He always thought there was something out there he was missing...he didn't think he could lose me. We have been together sine childhood, we grew up together. Until he realized I was willing to let him go....he didn't have the motivation. It was the hardest thing I had to do...he is my lover and hubby but he has always been my best friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> You can continue to justify and change things to fit any situation as you desire and this is what you are doing here. The difference between the mistake and bad choice are the initial intent behind them and not the outcomes, as you tend to classify them by. With a mistake the original outcome intent was for something good/ positive to happen yet the opposite occurred for whatever reason beyond your control. There is no way that anyone can ever expect anything good to come out of cheating on someone else, therefor it can never be a mistake and has to be a bad choice/ decision (and to call it a mistake repeatedly is just gas lighting the action and not owning it, no matter what your native language is the intent behind the action doesn't change).
> 
> I can play the same definition and semantic game with your definition of conscious, which means to be awake and aware of one's surroundings and environment. Hence a conscious decision would be one made with those situations in mind and not based upon lengthy thoughts and pondering like you suggest. Stop justifying and own your actions. You are again trying to downplay the cheating by insinuating that you didn't ponder it for a length therefor the decision was not consciously made, which again is wrong. Unless one is under the influence of some drug to change their state of mind or they are temporarily found mentally incompetent the decisions we make and the actions we perform are all consciously made, be it an impulse purchase or a long term pondered choice and everything in between. You can try and continue to gas light by changing the meaning of things and saying that maybe it is different for others than for you, but the same rules and assessments apply to you as they do to others. By changing the rules as they apply only to you is deflecting and not owning your actions.
> 
> ...


What you think of me doesn't matter to me. I do not owe you anything, I do not have anything to explain to you. 

I did not engage you in any conversation nor did I ask for your advice or lecturing and I'm kindly suggesting we leave it at that. Thank you.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> What you think of me doesn't matter to me. I do not owe you anything, I do not have anything to explain to you.
> 
> I did not engage you in any conversation nor did I ask for your advice or lecturing and I'm kindly suggesting we leave it at that. Thank you.


Never asked you to explain anything just realize your cheating was not a mistake but a choice, but when you replied, you did engage me in a conversation. You then began a lecture and kept trying to insinuate that I was doing something based upon my situation only as it is so much different than yours or anyone elses. The fact is cheating is not a mistake and i called you on that, nothing more. I have no preconceived notion or judgement of you and have never said otherwise. I would have the same argument for a BS that calls cheating a mistake as I would for a WS. No judgment there. I am just saying that you haven't owned your actions if you still feel it is a mistake. That is the same view that all cheaters have when they are justifying. Once they realize it was not a mistake but a decision or choice that is when they are owning their actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> Never asked you to explain anything just realize your cheating was not a mistake but a choice, but when you replied, you did engage me in a conversation. You then began a lecture and kept trying to insinuate that I was doing something based upon my situation only as it is so much different than yours or anyone elses. The fact is cheating is not a mistake and i called you on that, nothing more. I have no preconceived notion or judgement of you and have never said otherwise. I would have the same argument for a BS that calls cheating a mistake as I would for a WS. No judgment there. I am just saying that you haven't owned your actions if you still feel it is a mistake. That is the same view that all cheaters have when they are justifying. Once they realize it was not a mistake but a decision or choice that is when they are owning their actions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have corrected my wording already yesterday saying I made a wrong choice. I went on to explain to you that English is not my first language and that in my native tongue both words are used interchangeably. That doesn't mean I'm changing the definition, it means I used the wrong word and should have been aware of it or consulted a dictionary. I understand that went right over your head.
You addressed me first, you started the conversation. You went on to explain to me that I'm gas lighting, blame shifting and not owning up to what I did since I continue to use the word "mistake", a wording I did correct before you addressed me the first time. 

I used the wrong word, corrected myself and then explained why. If you want to lecture me on my usage of the English language, I'm listening. Other than that this is the end of the story.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> I have corrected my wording already yesterday saying I made a wrong choice. I went on to explain to you that English is not my first language and that in my native tongue both words are used interchangeably. That doesn't mean I'm changing the definition, it means I used the wrong word and should have been aware of it or consulted a dictionary. I understand that went right over your head.
> You addressed me first, you started the conversation. You went on to explain to me that I'm gas lighting, blame shifting and not owning up to what I did since I continue to use the word "mistake", a wording I did correct before you addressed me the first time.
> 
> I used the wrong word, corrected myself and then explained why. If you want to lecture me on my usage of the English language, I'm listening. Other than that this is the end of the story.


I can oblige that since you are being condescending and insulting by insinuating I am not reading correctly or to dense to catch and understand things. 

You admitted that you may have used the wrong word but also said that they were interchangeable in your native tongue and you would continue to use the word mistake as you previously Had used it. That is not correcting yourself, that is acknowledging the difference yet continuing with the previous action. 

I did quote you first (never has once denied that or stayed otherwise) and then you responded this engaging as I stated. I never claimed you engaged first, just that by responding you engaged. This is a truth and fact, or did that go over your head???? Stop changing everything to fit your point of view. Your English is very good and your diction and usage seems better than 90% of the native English speakers out there, so stop making excuses and justifying everything. I also must have missed where you "corrected" it as the original quote is still there and still says the original statements. How again is that correcting???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

End of story


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

FourtyPlus, just wanted to tell you to keep hanging there.
As i've been following your story for a while and I have no doubt you own fully your stuff I have no problem at all with this discusion mistake/choice.
I'm more than three years ahead of this and happyly reconciled so this is not a hot bottom for me anymore. Squeakr is not in the same situation, still getting a lot of blameshifting and the wound is very recent so I get how this recurring subject is so painful for him. Hopely his wife will become accountable of her choices so he can heal.

Peace everyone.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm trying to stay away from threads from BS as I don't have much to add or offer as a WS. I should have taken the time to read Squeakr's story. Had I done that, I probably wouldn't have continued the discussion.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Hartbrok said:


> I worry the exact same thing will happen with me. I have days where I feel like, why bother being a good man, since it didn't mean spit to the women in my life.......
> 
> Your story scares me, and I am going to try to do everything possible to make sure I don't become the monster you did. I hope your ex-GF never finds out the truth.


You have this gift I have come to know as TAM, I didn't have this luxury of being able to talk about my real and true inner feelings without being judged and ridiculed, you can do it here anonymously, I was broken, I know what my problems were and I know who I am.

If you know who you are then you know that you need worry not due to the due diligence of knowing what fate beholds you if you travel down that path!!!


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

Nope. I don't believe that statement.

You get two types of cheaters. Serial cheaters are the ones to avoid because they cannot help themselves. Others cheat because of their circumstance and it doesn't mean that they turn into serial cheaters. It can be a one off


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

hibiscus said:


> Nope. I don't believe that statement.
> 
> You get two types of cheaters. Serial cheaters are the ones to avoid because they cannot help themselves. Others cheat because of their circumstance and it doesn't mean that they turn into serial cheaters. It can be a one off


until the next set of circumstance comes along?

I'm sure there are people who only cheated once and then self reflected and didn't again. But In all honesty how do you really know until the test of time. 

once burned twice learned!

and this isn't just about physical affairs this includes emotional and finacial infidelity.

you know what the say about reputation. hard to over come a reputation of being untrust worthy.


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> until the next set of circumstance comes along?
> 
> I'm sure there are people who only cheated once and then self reflected and didn't again. But In all honesty how do you really know until the test of time.
> 
> ...


Chillymorn some people wont cheat again. 

I cheated in my early twenties( I am in my early forties now). Infact I was 24 when I last cheated.My life back then was dysfunctional and crazy. I will never be that person again. Never. And I say that with conviction.

Look at my current circumstance. I could so easily cheat as I have my "justifications".
My partner cheated so why didn't I have a rebound affair? Because I don't see the point in it. We have been in R since last December and we have zero sexlife (my partner has no sex drive). I think we have had sex 6 times in the past ten months. I meet single men all the time and have had offers to cheat. But I have no desire to. I don't see the point in that either.

All I want is a healthy and loving one to one relationship. Have always thought that after I learnt my lesson when I was 24. A life changing lesson. People can change.


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## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

I cheated for two and a half years, D day was April 2012 and my wife and I have been in R since then.

I chose to cheat and had been thinking about it for some time before it actually happened. I chose to do it for a number of reasons:

- It was a thrill

- To passively aggressively 'punish' my wife for percieved slights

- Because the AP met my emotional needs in ways I had stopped allowing my wife to do.

- My 'Mr Nice Guy' destruction of our marriage over many years allowed me to convince myself that my wife no longer cared and this therefore 'validated' the cheating.

All of these were wicked, selfish and wrong and the pain and suffering i have caused my wife have been off the richter scale. It is the one and only time i have been unfaithful although i have fantasised sexually about other women in the past. 

I will never cheat again and therefore refute the notion that 'once a cheater .... always a cheater'.

Why will i not cheat again?:

- Through the process of reconciliation I have realised how much i love my wife and how black life would be without her. The delusions I had created about our relationship stemmed from my own character flaws and insecurities. I know absolutely that another affair would be the end.

- Again through the process of reconciliation i have gained an insight into the reasons for the affair including the boundaries that I crossed that enabled me to have the affair. Knowing these reasons and boundaries will stop me from ever getting to the point again where i wish to have an affair. I now know the behaviours and thoughts that led me to make the horrendous choices that i made and can do something about them if i see them recurring.

- Hard as it may be to believe I never thought during the affair
about the pain i would cause beyond a superficial level. Partly this was a blocking out of reality (you have to do this in order to continue the deceit) and partly it was a ridiculous belief that i could live a double life without being caught (what she doesn't know won't hurt her). Both were wicked and cruel. Living through a year and a half of seeing the intense pain and suffering I caused a person that i truly love means that I could never do antyhing again to inflict such pain.

- Living a life with no secrets is a blessed relief after a long period of deceit (including trickle truthing following the affair).

I have no doubt that there are many cheaters for whome the thrill, excitement and sexual adventure mean that they will repeat the cheating. But those who see the suffering they cause AND come to understand what made them make those terrible choices will not be able to do so and live with themselves and their consciences.


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

Lister said:


> I cheated for two and a half years, D day was April 2012 and my wife and I have been in R since then.
> 
> I chose to cheat and had been thinking about it for some time before it actually happened. I chose to do it for a number of reasons:
> 
> ...


I applaud you


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

hibiscus said:


> Look at my current circumstance. I could so easily cheat as I have my "justifications".
> My partner cheated so why didn't I have a rebound affair? Because I don't see the point in it. We have been in R since last December and we have zero sexlife (my partner has no sex drive). I think we have had sex 6 times in the past ten months. I meet single


Hi Hibiscus,
I have a question about your situation. Feel free to not answer if you don't feel comfortable (and if it bothers you, I apologize in advance). If your fiancee has no desire and drive, then why has he cheated on you and a prior GF? DO you question this discrepancy and have you addressed this in any counseling? Your statement about serial cheaters are the type that don't change earlier would fit his description in this case. Would he not be a candidate that fits this statement? I am not trying to stir the pot, but was just wondering your opinion on this and how much you have thought about this?


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Hi Hibiscus,
> I have a question about your situation. Feel free to not answer if you don't feel comfortable (and if it bothers you, I apologize in advance). If your fiancee has no desire and drive, then why has he cheated on you and a prior GF? DO you question this discrepancy and have you addressed this in any counseling? Your statement about serial cheaters are the type that don't change earlier would fit his description in this case. Would he not be a candidate that fits this statement? I am not trying to stir the pot, but was just wondering your opinion on this and how much you have thought about this?


Squeakr I love questions. My fiancé has no drive as a consequence to his ONS. Before this happened we had a very passionate sexlife. His shame from his ONS has basically killed it and triggered alot of old insecurities he has of his body. This led him to have ED and we are battling with this ever since.

Initial I did think he was a serial cheater. This is why we split up for five months after dday. He couldn't even give a valid reason as to why he would destroy our future with a ONS. It was clear as day that he was bad news. But in the five months he showed so much remorse. He sent me Text after text of how ashamed he was. He was beside himself for being so stupid..Text after text of his shame for hurting me and destroying the best thing he has ever had in his life. He wrote letters to my friends and family asking for forgiveness. He said he would do anything to prove that he can change.Even said that he needed to do IC.

I took him back on the condition that we did MC. Alot was discussed during MC...mainly about his commitment issues...why he has the desire to cheat...understanding the way he ticks etc

Like I mentioned before he cheated before in the previous relationship but there were no consequences. He got found out and his girlfriend didn't seem to mind. This time when he cheated on me he confessed because he knew he needed help. That is not the way a serial cheater thinks.

Lister has explained it quite well in his post.

Are you in R with your wife?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Thanks for the clarification. I don't know where I stand with my wife. It is hard to explain or for me to understand. I feel that she is done cheating (I have found no proof of it since D-Day, and I periodically check and verify, and she is not repeating her old habits and had lost most of her friends). Still I don't know. I (like your BFF's H) have strong moral convictions and it is hard for me to fully commit to R I think, because I see nothing from her that says she wants to R (not saying she isn't trying but I don't think I see it and maybe it is just me and my expectations). I still feel the effects of the trickle truthing. This is why I said your BFF's H has a choice. The issue is that I have to decide over my moral obligations and whether I feel that I will be dumped on again in the future. If I give up my moral obligations to be with a cheater and she cheats again, then I have nothing left and have abandoned my convictions for her. It is hard when I have kids an know that I will possibly lose their respect and will definitely lose time with them if I do D. Without die hard commitment to the R from her, I just have a hard time seeing it work and think, why should I waste anymore years of my life, when it just might not be the right fit for me and this is hard to say after 15 years of marriage). It is harder when she says things that make me do a double take (we have a friend that is doing to her H what my WW has done to me. This weekend my WW was telling me about it and said how wrong she thought the friend was and how bad the friends supporters were for telling her she deserved better. I thought I was seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, as this is what happened with my WW. When I asked her about it, she stared blankly and made some reference to how it wasn't really the same, she could see how I would say that, and that she didn't want to talk about it and just blew it off the rest of the night. I thought i was seeing a change and then the denial stepped up to the plate and hit it out of the park, so I don't know what to think as she has changed in some respects.)


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## beachbabe (May 11, 2012)

Lister~ your reasons for not cheating again are the same as my husbands, almost verbatim. He too, did not think of the pain and suffering it would cost me, and said the look on my face and the hurt in my eyes; is something that he never wishes to see again. (especially from something he's has done.) 
Thanks for sharing, you made it more real for me...that he is telling me the truth.


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## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

Glad it helped. It's not easy though dealing with the pain you have caused and how on earth you could have been so callous. No doubt your partner feels the same. Last two days have been really tough, my wife really struggling with what I did. I just feel shame.


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## beachbabe (May 11, 2012)

Lister...I read your first thread and you sound very sincere. 
Just remember; from this day forward you have a chance to prove to your wife that you will always love her more than anyone else. 
We always need to know that...ALWAYS~


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

Lister said:


> Glad it helped. It's not easy though dealing with the pain you have caused and how on earth you could have been so callous. No doubt your partner feels the same. Last two days have been really tough, my wife really struggling with what I did. I just feel shame.


Lister how long ago was Dday?


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## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

hibiscus said:


> Lister how long ago was Dday?


April 2012. But I spent a long time trickle truthing, in my head trying to 'minimise' the damage but just making things worse. Now the truth is all out but the damage is done and my wife doesn't know what to believe which is no surprise. She knows the AP has been long gone but still wonders if i miss her, I think, and can't understand why i chose to stay and not go with the AP.

Answer is because (callous and selfish as it was) my affair was an adventure and i justified it in my head as being a meaningful relationship. In fact i don't miss the AP ( and stopped missing her quickly after D Day) and know that my wife is the one i need and want to be with. Cannot imagine life without her.

Lots of triggers for her and i'm still bad at dealing with these, still have an instinct to go into 'defence' mode rather than 'care' mode and have to completely change the way i behave and react to her pain. Will keep trying, for me and for her.


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

Lister said:


> April 2012. But I spent a long time trickle truthing, in my head trying to 'minimise' the damage but just making things worse. Now the truth is all out but the damage is done and my wife doesn't know what to believe which is no surprise. She knows the AP has been long gone but still wonders if i miss her, I think, and can't understand why i chose to stay and not go with the AP.
> 
> Answer is because (callous and selfish as it was) my affair was an adventure and i justified it in my head as being a meaningful relationship. In fact i don't miss the AP ( and stopped missing her quickly after D Day) and know that my wife is the one i need and want to be with. Cannot imagine life without her.
> 
> Lots of triggers for her and i'm still bad at dealing with these, still have an instinct to go into 'defence' mode rather than 'care' mode and have to completely change the way i behave and react to her pain. Will keep trying, for me and for her.


You must keep trying. Its the key to healing for both of you. My partner is brilliant when I trigger. He always has time to listen and he always reassures me that he will never hurt me. I need to hear that


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## beachbabe (May 11, 2012)

I love that you both use the word "trigger" (Lister and Hibiscus) In another thread I wrote "can I ever go back to be the naughty girl in bed". My intent was to find out if I could in fact, trigger a memory or event that "he shared with her". THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE FOR ME!! 
I am afraid to go back to be that sexually adventurous wife that I was, cause apparently he was having contact with her and others at the same time (via computer and cell)
Like I said Lister...he has 'walked the walk', but we lately we don't talk about it anymore...I think because it has been over a year that it is something he wants to forget. Here's and deal...for some reason, I am reverting back to my suspicious days. He really hasn't given me any reasons but I have doubts about him other than we are drifting apart and that is what it felt like when he had the need to leave...mentally. 
I wonder....WHEN IS THIS EVER GOING TO END??!!


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

IMHO, it depends on what point in their life and marriage they cheated and whether or not they still love the spouse they cheated on, stopping the affair and going no contact immediately after exposure, without hesitation or regret. 

Why is meaningless really. The why is selfishness and the hope that they won't get caught. 

Yes. You can love someone and still be selfish enough to want a sidepiece.


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

beachbabe said:


> I love that you both use the word "trigger" (Lister and Hibiscus) In another thread I wrote "can I ever go back to be the naughty girl in bed". My intent was to find out if I could in fact, trigger a memory or event that "he shared with her". THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE FOR ME!!
> I am afraid to go back to be that sexually adventurous wife that I was, cause apparently he was having contact with her and others at the same time (via computer and cell)
> Like I said Lister...he has 'walked the walk', but we lately we don't talk about it anymore...I think because it has been over a year that it is something he wants to forget. Here's and deal...for some reason, I am reverting back to my suspicious days. He really hasn't given me any reasons but I have doubts about him other than we are drifting apart and that is what it felt like when he had the need to leave...mentally.
> I wonder....WHEN IS THIS EVER GOING TO END??!!


Beachbabe you need to communicate with him and tell him how you feel. There is no point trying to forget an affair. It will always be there. But you can live with it. Communication is so important


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## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

beachbabe said:


> I love that you both use the word "trigger" (Lister and Hibiscus) In another thread I wrote "can I ever go back to be the naughty girl in bed". My intent was to find out if I could in fact, trigger a memory or event that "he shared with her". THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE FOR ME!!
> I am afraid to go back to be that sexually adventurous wife that I was, cause apparently he was having contact with her and others at the same time (via computer and cell)
> Like I said Lister...he has 'walked the walk', but we lately we don't talk about it anymore...I think because it has been over a year that it is something he wants to forget. Here's and deal...for some reason, I am reverting back to my suspicious days. He really hasn't given me any reasons but I have doubts about him other than we are drifting apart and that is what it felt like when he had the need to leave...mentally.
> I wonder....WHEN IS THIS EVER GOING TO END??!!


As Hibiscus said you really should communicate how you feel. I have no doubt that he doesn't want to talk about it as it will be a very painful memory I suspect, and he won't want to do or discuss anything to see the pain he has caused you. I say this because I am the same and the natural inclination is to avoid discussion and act as if all is well.

He will need constant reminders (as i do) of how devastating for you his betrayal was to keep him walking the walk and walking the talk. I have to constantly remind myself of what i need to do otherwise i could revert to old behaviours (I'm not talking about the affair here but behaviours within our relationship that caused so much damage in the first place and led to me 'justifying' the affair). I need these reminders not because i don't love my partner but because my own selfish nature needs to be constantly challenged and moderated to ensure i can demonstrate my love for her. I have a long way to go but without regular communication i could easily lapse into old ways i think , and that would be the end.

tell him how you feel and remind him of his responsibilities to you.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

imo, once a cheater always a cheater...the ones who never do it again are probably the minority

I have witnesses a few friends go through it, catch the wife cheating, seperate, counseling, reconciliation...they are happier than EVER...when she looks at him, she is beaming with so much love it hurts, their sex life is better than ever, they are closer, they thank god every night for each other...then, it goes to hell and she cheats again

I have witnessed one where they DIVORCED, she came crawling back, they remarried..and she cheated again...phhttt...men are no better, dont get me wrong...maybe, if their spouse is lucky, they get better at hiding it


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

I believe once a cheater, always a cheater. You can't take back a POS thing like that and be free and clear. And why should you be when you make decisions that destroy lives? 

Oh, and I forgot, cheating is one of the most low-life, despicable things you can do (definitely true when married) to someone else. The pain is searing and unforgettable. My wife made excuses and more recently even blamed me ~ I truly wish those who have cheated at ANY point had "cheater" stamped across their forehead so you can avoid them like the plague that they are. I'm not bitter though


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

I have read so much of this "beach babe" and what you express is almost normal, you say you feel you are beginning to drift apart again and that there is distance between you, you say you are reverting back to the snooping and being suspicious of him, but what you are not doing is talking to him about these issues, why you feel there is a distance growing, what is changing in your situation that is allowing this distance to grow? 

Or is it more a case of, you are now coming to terms with the betrayal and are now thinking that R is not what you want with your H???

I understand that, I also know that after more than a year I too was ready to throw in the towel, ok my wife never had a PA, but the fact remains that she was having her needs met by another man, but in these last few months things have gained a much greater clarity, I now no longer cling to the marriage that I had, it died a most stagnant and stale death, but I now embrace the new marriage, a partnership where we talk, if I feel there are unresolved issues then we talk some more, my wife does not get the chance to say "I'm done talking" she knows that is cue suitcase and followed by leave your keys when you walk out the door. I have made life that simple now, she understands what happens in this marriage, stay within the boundaries or get out of town, there out no dangling a leg the otherside of the line.

Maybe you need to take this approach? Or you could go the whole other direction and separate from your H, this maybe more what you want but are too frightened to admit defeat or too scared of what the future holds for you alone, neither should worry you, life will move on whether you like it or not, embrace your life you have only got this one!!!!

I deal with the crap that used to rift through my head when asking myself "why?" and that was to say to my self when every "why" came up, "why think about something that no longer matters" and then carry on with my work or think about something else.

I hope you find peace inside as I have now, with or without him you will survive.


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## Kaori (Sep 18, 2012)

14 years ago, I cheated on my exh, then left him soon after for reasons unrelated to my affair. In fact, my exh never found out about my affair, yet I could not stand the feeling of self-loathing my actions caused me and I resolved myself to never do that again for my own mental health, as it feels so much better inside to do the right thing than the selfish thing.

I have been in 2 ltr's since then and never cheated on either of them. In my last ltr before my current one, my live-in bf of 8.5 years was a porn & masturbation addict who sorely neglected me, and emotionally abused me, yet I never cheated on him. 

It's ironic that I am now living with my current bf of 2.5 yrs who considers me his best friend and early-on confessed to me of cheating on his exw with 2 diff. women: 1 was a one-time thing when he was in his 20's, when he was living with, but not yet married to his exw, and the other was at the end of their marriage in his mid-30's after his exw had shut him out emotionally, which was just 4 or so years ago. He also knows of my past indiscretion from when I was married as well. 

My bf's last indiscretion is way more recent than mine which does give me pause, but because we are so similar in our thought processes and I am a reformed cheater, I'm taking a chance on him having the integrity to be one too. We've discussed it in-depth and I've shared my views on the virtues of doing the right thing which he totally agrees with. I even posted about my doubts here, then spoke with him about it more after that and he did express regret for his actions and said he hated himself for what he did to his exw who is also unaware of his affairs, just as my exh was unaware. 

I know I may be naïve in having this faith in him, but it's a gamble I'm willing to take at this point in my life, since at my age (42), it's tougher to find someone who hasn't cheated in the past, plus I have that red badge upon myself as well which makes me unsavory to those non-cheaters my age anyway. 

I accept that this is all my reaping of the seeds sewn 14 years ago.


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

Kaori said:


> at my age (42), it's tougher to find someone who hasn't cheated in the past


This is profoundly disturbing to me. I may be in the minority, but nothing in this life could ever make me cheat on my spouse - no woman in this world, nor any amount of money. Period. Now that I am near the tail end of my own marriage (because of a cheating spouse), my abilty to trust anyone ever again is simply non-existant. Of course, since I am also in the "waiting until marriage" camp, I might as well just swear off women entirely!


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I don't think once a cheater always a cheater... my dad cheated on my mom and married his AP. He hasn't cheated. 

I think that there are reasons beyond pure selfishness that lead a person to believe that cheating is a good decision. Some of those reasons include emotional immaturity, mental issues, poor coping skills... mostly it is an escape for some reason or another.


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## sammysosad (Sep 24, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree: People can and do change everyday. There are some people who cheat once and never do it again and others who cheat time and again. The cheater can absolutely change - the damage they have done can not.



Do you believe this to be true if the cheater was caught first and then confessed?


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