# I met the love of my life but we are both married, Help!



## crazz2323 (Nov 14, 2015)

Let me give you some background: 

I have been married for 15 years (no kids). We are in our early 40's now. I am not a cheater or was ever out looking for an affair. I have always tried to be a good person and a good husband. We have had our ups and downs and almost split once about 7 years ago due to really bad financial issues and a bunch of other issues etc. I always thought our marriage was one of the ones that would last the test of time. We currently have good jobs, things are going well financially and somewhat emotionally.

I am content but not really happy. I could go the whole rest of my life that way but always will yearn for something more. She loves me and is a sweet girl but I don't think I love her anymore, at least not as much or ever really did. She can be very emotional, sometimes violently so (much yelling and anger no hitting) so talking honestly about my feelings never goes well. In every argument it is always me who backs down, apologizes just to keep the peace and get things back to normal. I just suppress even if I really didn't agree. I am normally a happy person and drama just isn't my thing.

I am a very patient person emotionally but over the years, things have worn me down. In some of our last big fights (been a little while), I found myself not backing down so quick but the emotional responses I get always push me to keep the peace. I am an open person and I do wish I could talk more about how I feel with my wife but it is just not possible without starting WWIII. We do communicate some and that has been what has kept us going this far.

She has had her issues with me some of them repeated over and over in arguments and I know she is picking up on small clues to my emotional state over the past few years, such as being less intimate, me more interested in what I'm doing then giving her full attention, not wanting to spend time with her, caring less about our arguments, etc. I know this all sounds horrible and trust me I feel horrible about it but know I am really a nice person and do not want to hurt anyone. So I just keep on trucking along. One big clue for me is when she is gone for any amount of time, even weeks, I am excited about having the time to myself and honestly don't miss her at all.... terrible I know.

So, now you have the backstory, time to queue in the drama....

I recently, accidentally, and unintentionally met someone who I have a very strong connection with. We both feel exactly the same way and have both never experienced feelings this strong in our entire lives. We have talked and talked about it about the situation we are both in and really don't know what to do. You see, she is married as well but her marriage is in a worse or more advanced stage then mine. She is the one who is not loved and they are basically roommates not lovers. No intimacy at all. She has kids who are leaving the nest soon and they will most likely be divorced after.

We feel like we have met each others soul mates. Our whole relationship is as if we have been together for years and it has only been a few weeks. I know I am filling a massive void she has but she has never felt this strongly for anyone ever, nor have I. It is as if there is part of us in each other and when we are together, those halves are trying rip right out of us and rebind. This all happened so fast, so unexpectedly and I really don't know what to do.

We have talked about this situation in length over and over and have decided to just see where it goes. What else can we do? We have both made sure there was nothing intimate happening between us, no kissing or worse! We are both not cheaters and I care about my soul! However, as of late this is becoming harder to resist. 

So, I am living a double life right now and I know that is a very dangerous path. It is only a matter of time before someone is caught but I want to see where this goes to be sure before I make any drastic moves. My worst fear is tossing in the towel for this new relationship and having that not work out. Well, then I just gambled my whole life away and lost.

We both do not want to hurt anyone and she does not want to put me in any situations that I am not comfortable with. We are very open about everything (there is that communication I am missing) and she has left the ball in my court to say yay or nay. She has many qualities I have yearned for in a wife that is not in my current wife and that only draws me more to her. At this point I know someone or someone's are going to get hurt. If I decide to stay put and end this, she will be crushed and I may regret and always wonder what could have been, if I try for the greener grass, my wife will be devastated, destroy families on both ends and everything I have worked for up to this point. I really have no idea how I got into this situation and really could use some advice!

Anyone go through this? What was the outcome? Did you make the bold move? Was it a disaster?


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

crazz2323 said:


> We are both not cheaters


Yes, you both are. You're having an emotional affair.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Life is a gamble and if you do it properly, you quit one table before you place a bet on another. You can win big, lose big or break even. If you "try out" this other woman while still holding onto your wife then that makes her your fallback or "B" plan. Unfair to her IMO. Would it not be nice if we could date while married and just keep trading up? Unfortunately there is that small matter of our vows, our integrity and our honor. Inconvenient incumberances would you not agree?


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Throw the dice. File for divorce since your marriage isn't doing it for you. Then see what the other woman does. The worst case is that you'll be free to find someone better, even if it's not this particular other woman.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

So if you don't love your WIFE, then divorce her.

But don't come here and attempt to say that you aren't betraying her. You are, you just don't think of yourself in those terms.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think, ethically, you need to each legally separate from your spouses, if not divorce, before "trying each other out." And you both need to realize, especially her, that you could decide the "connection" is not enough, and that you want to go back to what is familiar and at least somewhat comfortable. 

I am guessing a lot of people deal with this, meeting someone later in life that seems like a better fit, while having all the responsibilities and established connections that make it really inconvenient to having come across that better fit.


----------



## thebirdman (Apr 5, 2014)

Are you willing to face the consequences of ending your current marriage? 
How well do you know this woman that you are interested in? Are you ready to accept the fact that a relationship with her might not work out and certainly won't be "perfect" even if it does? 
Beware: feelings and emotions tend to cloud our decision making skills. 

Fighting is not the same as communicating. In a fight with your SO, no one wins. Fighting begins after the dialogue is over, when the emotional shields are up and the weapons are drawn. There is probably a reason why your wife explodes when you try to talk to her and it may not have anything to do with you. 
I would suggest you at least try IC and MC. 
I don't know what your outcome will be.

I do know that there was a time, not that long ago, that I would have rather slept at my office than come home to deal with the hostilities there. 
I was ready to move on. But, it didn't work out that way. Today I'm glad it didn't. 
I can't tell you it's going to work out. I don't know that. But you seem to be ready to let your feelings override your common sense. People do that all the time and it's very dangerous.

What ever you decide, have integrity in your decisions. You cannot be emotionally attached to another woman and believe for one second that it is fair to your wife. It's not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I am probably going to sound somewhat contrarian to most here. But personally, I think you need to be responsible to your self first. Yes you made a vow to your wife, but that isn't working for you. If it doesn't work for you it ultimately is not going to work for her either. Your comment "My worst fear is tossing in the towel for this new relationship and having that not work out. Well, then I just gambled my whole life away and lost." really raised a red flag with me. Earlier in your post you said "I am content but not really happy" and later you said "when she is gone for any amount of time, even weeks, I am excited about having the time to myself and honestly don't miss her at all.... terrible I know.' So two questions you need to ask yourself #1) are you being responsible to yourself and #2) is this fair to you or to your wife or the new woman?
Personally I think you need to find out who you are before jumping into a new relationship. What you may find is that the new other is simply filling in the voids where you are missing something now. You may find in the future, completely new voids are created in the absence of the other you are with now. You really need to take the alone time you have in your wife's absence and reassess exactly what it is that you want for your life in order to be happy. 
Sharing a misery, while miserable is not the same as having a connection. Once the perceived source of misery disappears often times that connection vanishes. A new misery takes it place because the real source of the misery was never dealt with.
You have shown that you are a good person in your struggle with your dilemma, but I don't think your answer lies with your either of two women, but within your self.


----------



## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

I think the feelings of finding your soulmate and never having loved someone like this before are standard for people in an affair. Its not real. It is chemicals that you haven't felt for a long time racing around your body and clouding your mind. 

Your "love" is not being put to any sort of life test- paying bills, having parental responsibilities, finances going south, picking up the dirty laundry, doing the dishes, arguments, disappointments in life…

All you have is the honeymoon infatuation period- of course it feels like you are perfect for each other- its like your relationship with her is conducted on vacation and the one with your wife is conducted while doing 2 jobs and in the middle of a work week.

FIRST quit seeing her -then go to marriage counselling and find out what you and your wife need from each other to feel happy.Try to give it to each other and if and when you have exhausted all avenues and you still feel unhappy you can get a divorce. It isn't fair to your wife to stay with her while pining after some illusion that she can't compete with.

If your feelings for the OW are real and true they should stand the test of time and she will be divorced by then and ready to try things out with you..


----------



## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Career woman here, 35 years married (first marriage for the both of us), and 57 years old. If you are not happy with your marriage, divorce your wife. Your wife deserves the truth.

You are cheating. You are willing to leave your wife for this woman. Tell her husband. Both your spouses deserve the truth of your affair. Ironically, I don't believe that your grass will be greener in the other side. Your Other Woman has children in her marriage. Even though grown up, you will find complexity with her children in this relationship when you end your marriage.

You need to see a psychologist. I believe that you are painting an ideal picture in your mind which is not a reality. You are in your 40s. You are in a stage where you are examining your life. Be realistic. Best of luck to you.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Yada yada yada, you are giving time to another woman which you are not giving to your wife, you even pointed this out, yah you are cheating, call it finding your soul mate, whatever, that is what all the cheaters say.

A real man would grow a pair, sit his wife down tell her he wants a divorce, get the divorce and move on to the next woman.
Of course you don't want to do that because your poor wife can unwittingly be Plan B if this new soulmate chick doesn't work out.

And you are trying to tell us here on a forum that is full of BSs, that this is somehow all above board. PLuzzzzzzz! I

Sorry I have no empathy for your dilemma it is self-inflicted. Be a man and do the right thing!


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I stopped reading at soul mate so I could puke. What are you, 15?

Geez, divorce your wife so she can find someone who loves her and see what happens with this "soul mate".

The thing to ask yourself is this: if your soul mate doesn't work out will you be happy to be free from your marriage? Because said soul mate likely won't work out. Maybe, but the odds are not with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Wow, she's your soul mate and the love of your life only after a few weeks! 

Have you two even done anything meaningful together? 

Gone on any long trips together? 

Has she washed your dirty underwear? 

Have you held her hair back while she's puking?


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

jld said:


> I think, ethically, you need to each legally separate from your spouses, if not divorce, before "trying each other out." And you both need to realize, especially her, that you could decide the "connection" is not enough, and that you want to go back to what is familiar and at least somewhat comfortable.
> 
> I am guessing a lot of people deal with this, meeting someone later in life that seems like a better fit, while having all the responsibilities and established connections that make it really inconvenient to having come across that better fit.


I strongly disagree with this concept of separation in order to try out a relationship with your affair partner is a disgusting and an unethical act. Your wife will be hurting enough and while you are off, while separated, testing a new relationship, she is suffering in pain over what you did to her and probably isn't looking for anyone else. Instead, she will be left questioning herself like many betrayed spouses. I do agree with the concept of divorce, amicably though and coming clean.

I am staunchly opposed to separation. You are either in or out. Separation doesn't fix problems. Sure, once in a while people will get back together and realize that they originally had it better but why did they have to test the market in order to find that out ? And why did they not work harder on making their original marriage better or at least be ethical enough to divorce before going into a limbo status ?

Separation is like getting a loan from a bank and then demanding after the fact that it be interest free. 

How would you like it if you were separated and this new woman turned out to be not what you expected, then you decided to try again with your wife just to find out that she has been with 15 different guys ? or is in a committed relationship herself and now has you on hold ?

Divorce or make your marriage better but stop cheating on your wife. That is my opinion


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> Wow, she's your soul mate and the love of your life only after a few weeks!
> 
> Have you two even done anything meaningful together?
> 
> ...


This^^^^

Especially the holding hair and puking part...cause..damn...drunk, crying puking girls are kinda the polar opposite of attractive

Plus....you are already married...trying pitting even a tenth of the energy you put into the fantasy girl...into your marriage


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You and this women are both cheaters. You are having an emotional affair. If they will cheat with you they will cheat on you and you will never trust each other if you do get together. Either work on your marriage or get a divorce before you start another relationship. We are only getting your side of the story about your wife faults, I'm sure she she would tell us about your part in your marriage failing like it sounds like you have stopped trying.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

The circumstances that often bring people together are usually only temporary. Once that common bond is no longer needed, then people actually see the other for who he/she is. They begin to see the magic fade and the reason is because they don't have a need to "fill that void" any longer. 

That's one of the reasons why rebounds don't last and why we tell people to divorce, heal for a while, and THEN think about a new relationship.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I know I'm going to get bashed here, but I can testify that it is *possible *for such a situation to work out *for the soulmates.*

Note that I'm not saying that it is a good idea to do this, because I know the odds are against it.

But I know it is possible, because my situation was similar to the OP's in many ways, and it has worked out well *for the soulmates*.

But how did it work out for the other spouses?

My ex-wife told me sometime later that she was sorry that she had mistreated me. We kept in contact and she actually asked me for dating advice, which I gave to the best of my ability.

She died about 10 years after I left, as I found out from the Social Security Administration.

My wife's ex-husband remarried soon after their divorce. He has told their daughter that is happy, but who knows if that is really true?

----------------------
Here's my story:

My wife S and I met online. I wasn't looking for anything personal, just someone to help me by acting as a "test reader" for a technical book I was writing. 

We spent about 6 months on that project, and for the first 3 months or so, I was enormously careful not to get into any personal discussions, since both of us were married and I took my vows seriously.

However, at some point in the project, S got annoyed at the fact that she was doing all this work for someone who wrote "like a robot", as she described it. She knew I had a pretty good sense of humor because I had used it in an apparently fairly successful attempt to keep the very technical material from being as dry as dust. So why was I being so "robotic" with her?

The answer, of course, is as I said before: I was being careful not to get into personal discussions because I was married and wanted to remain faithful.

But her sister egged her on to get some personal reaction to me, including getting her to send me a (perfectly safe for work) picture of her, and asking for some personal interaction with me.

So I sent her an essay that I had written about a college reunion, which was full of emotional reactions that I had experienced during the reunion. This made it clear to her that I was far from robotic, but nothing further developed for another month or so.

Then one night, I was having chest pains, and my wife said "Don't wake me up if you have to drive yourself to the hospital."

S is an RN, so I called her for advice, and after describing my symptoms, she said "It doesn't sound like a heart attack, but if you need anything, call me."

After I hung up the phone, it occurred to me that I was married to the wrong person.

So I called her back and asked her "If we were both single, would you be interested in a more personal relationship with me?"

There was a long silence, and I said "If that was the wrong question, forget I asked it." She said "No, it's okay. Yes, I would."

Then I went into the other room and told my wife I wanted a divorce. I proposed marriage to S the next day, if I recall correctly.

This probably seems a bit risky, especially considering that we had not met yet, although we had spoken on the phone a few times.

She said, "We have to meet first before I can answer that." So we made plans to meet, which were a bit complicated by the fact that she hadn't told her husband about this situation, although he knew about the book project.

We met a couple of months later, and things went very well. She wanted to wait to initiate her divorce until her daughter graduated from high school the next summer, but I didn't want to wait, and talked her into starting it right away, which I probably should not have done.

My divorce took about a year, as there was a waiting period and I got some resistance from my wife, although I didn't try to get any of her assets, which were much greater than mine. S also bent over backwards to be fair to her husband, with my complete support, since after all it wasn't his idea to get divorced. Why should it be worse for him than it had to be?

All this started 20 years ago, and we have been married for 18 years, at least as happily as anyone else I know.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MarriedDude said:


> This^^^^
> 
> Especially the holding hair and puking part...cause..damn...drunk, crying puking girls are kinda the polar opposite of attractive
> 
> Plus....you are already married...trying pitting even a tenth of the energy you put into the fantasy girl...into your marriage


What? You mean when I spent the night sitting in front of the toilet puking my guts up i wasn't attractive? I had no idea. ....(sarcasm)

Hb said I looked like a drunk sorority girl......except I wasn't drunk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

technovelist said:


> I know I'm going to get bashed here, but I can testify that it is *possible *for such a situation to work out *for the soulmates.*
> 
> Note that I'm not saying that it is a good idea to do this, because I know the odds are against it.
> 
> ...


appreciate your sharing your story. I am not going to bash although I feel badly for the betrayed in your case on both sides, especially your wife's ex who got blindsided. They didn't deserve that. However at least you both didn't try to destroy your spouses in court. And at least you are here trying to help people going through it now.

You do acknowledge it wasn't the best way to go in your case and I agree. At least you initiated the divorce first.

I am the type who is against cheating in any case. While it is possible for it to work out, I am a traditionalist and feel that nothing should be gained out of such circumstances like OP's situation here. 

That's all I'll say and again I appreciate your sharing your story. You are trying to use it to help people here and I am not trying to start issues with you here. 

However, if OP here decides to cheat, I am completely opposed.


----------



## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

You ARE cheating. 

Regardless of the state of your marriage, your wife expects you to only be emotionally involved with her. You are giving another woman your emotions.

I have cheated, and I am sorry sir, but you are trying to convince YOURSELF you are not.

There are many forms of cheating. The physical kind, the one time mistake, serial cheating, long term relationship cheating, emotional cheating......

You are emotionally cheating on your wife.

Before you do something physical, do your wife a favor and either tell her what is going on or tell her you want a divorce. 

As many cheaters are (myself included) you are being very selfish. 

Your wife may also not be happy, but most likely she's trusting and investing in this relationship on some level. 

If you want this "soul mate", in the very least, put your wife first and allow her to escape this with some dignity.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

#1 Come clean to your wife and see if your "soul mate" does the same.

#2 Take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself how this woman can be your "soul mate" when you've never actually been together. This isn't very grown-up, man.

#3 While you're looking in the mirror, ask yourself why another woman is the solution to your marriage and life. Hint: it starts with an "R" and ends with "ationalization."

You're already cheating, and you know that, so I won't even go there.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I have been the OP in a relationship. So I know something of what's happening with you and your AP. (I was the AP.)

So... what can I say based on my own personal experience and several years at TAM, plus my training in counselling and mental health?

*Don't make your wife into your plan b escape tunnel. It's not fair on her.*


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Tech, I wonder if after that horrible comment your ex made when you were having chest pains would've been the beginning of the end anyway? Even if your wife hadn't been in the picture at the time.? I know it would've made me reevaluate my marriage.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> Tech, I wonder if after that horrible comment your ex made when you were having chest pains would've been the beginning of the end anyway? Even if your wife hadn't been in the picture at the time.? I know it would've made me reevaluate my marriage.


I was already not terribly happy as a result of her mistreating me over the previous years, so it is possible. I had considered divorce but it hadn't gotten bad enough until that point. It's hard to say whether that would have done it in the absence of a seemingly better alternative, though.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I puked in my mouth. Didn't taste very good.

So this is easy. Just walk in hit your wife with divorce papers. I mean she just doesn't deserve you anyway so no problemo,

Then your cohort in crime can do the same. I mean she's so badly abused ya da, ya da. 

And you're together. Two cheaters together at last. A marriage for the ages. 

File tomorrow. Don't waste ant time. I'm sure your AP person will want to coordinate it with you. Hmmmmmm maybe.


----------



## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

You may notice we don't get a lot of posters here saying, "hey, I'm in an affair, I'm loving it, my life is awesome and if anyone here doesn't like it, go f-yourselves".

That's because those people have reconciled their actions with their value set. Others may not agree, but others don't have to live their life and their opinions don't matter.

Your honour is your own. You know how you are living now is wrong, *for your value set.* Others here may have similar, or quite different values. In the end, you have to live your own life, so what anyone else here thinks really doesn't matter, except the collective experience may help you to come to a decision more quickly.

1. What are your options for your situation?

2. Which of those options aligns with your values, and the kind of person you want to be?

3. Take those actions that will move you closer to becoming that person.

You may notice none of these things take into account your affair partner. I hope this helps. Ignore the mob and the haters. They are still working through their own issues.

- Sapi


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

If you want to be with this woman then file for Divorce. She have to do the same thing,especially because of her kids.

She told you she is not in love with her husband anymore,no sex etc... Well it does not matter,her husband deserves to know the truth,just like your wife.

Let me ask you-you told us your wife goes out for weeks from home.Where is she going ? Why did you not have any kids (sorry to ask) ?


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

For some reason, some people's basic morality becomes elastic when it comes to finding the 'love of their lives,' especially when they're married.

The excitement of love doesn't automatically negate everything you know about honor, kindness, and honesty, however.

You have lost your moral compass and you are excusing yourself because you believe that your new love transcends these other values.

It doesn't, though. What it does is give you a delusional pass to act like a liar and cheater. This is dishonorable and, at best, unkind to the wife, who, whatever her faults, has vowed to forsake all others & expects the same of you.

You need to save your soul here and find your honor again. Stop the emotional affair with this woman and either try to work it out with your BW or file for divorce.

Once you are in a position where you are not lying to your wife, then you can pursue this other relationship.

I even think that your honor requires you to be honest with your BW about what you have been doing. And no shifting the blame to her.

You are now a liar and a cheater. How does it feel? It is the truth. You still have time and opportunity to recover your honor and dignity. I would attempt to do that if I were you.


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Do your wife and yourself a favor: be honest with her, and ask for a divorce. If it's this easy for you to be so enamored with someone you barely know, you've clearly disconnected from your wife and shouldn't be married to her any longer.

Please at least recognize this about yourself: You're not keeping your affair, and that is what it is, a secret to protect your wife's feelings. You're doing that to protect yourself. If you truly cared about your wife's feelings, you wouldn't be mercilessly keeping her as a Plan B while you try on a whole other relationship outside the marriage and lying to her about it.

You and your AP are being selfish and cowardly by continuing this affair.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So I notice that OP hasn't been back. Perhaps this is a hit and run?


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

crazz2323 said:


> My worst fear is tossing in the towel for this new relationship and having that not work out. Well, then I just gambled my whole life away and lost.


This is what it really boils down to,a way to shore up your bet. Isn't being soulmates enough of a guarantee? 

No matter what weight your wife may or may not have pulled in your relationship,she deserves the respect of honesty and not being your plan B. My thinking is that your wife and your marriage can't be all that bad if you keep holding them in this position.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm having flashbacks to my buddy's wife.

She, too, found her 'soulmate' in the form of one of his best friends. She 'didn't mean for it to happen' and 'it was just meant to be' and 'he gets me in ways that my husband never did...'

He didn't buy it for a second and threw her out immediately.

Of course, six months beforehand, I told him that his wife had propositioned me (so much for soul mates) and two weeks after he threw her out, the other man went running back to his wife.

Then two weeks later, she was in tears because her husband 'won't even try to work on things.'

Sigh.

Soulmates.


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> So I notice that OP hasn't been back. Perhaps this is a hit and run?


Looks like it. Or, he didn't like the lack of validation he got for his bvll**** behavior and opinions, and high-tailed it outta here.


----------



## Unhappy_girl (Aug 19, 2015)

You are definitely having an emotional affair. You might not have chosen to have an affair and 'found your soulmate' but you are having an affair. Why didn't you bother working on your marriage? It's so convenient that this soul mate has come along at a time when you feel your marriage isn't working. If your marriage was that bad, you should have ended it ages ago. You owe it to your wife to sort out and save your marriage. You took vows.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> The excitement of love doesn't automatically negate everything you know about honor, kindness, and honesty, however.


This begs the question of why would this same statement not apply to his marriage? After all don't most people get married for precisely the excitement we have (at that time) for our SO? Perhaps in the excitement of love he married her against everything he knew (then) about honor, kindness and honesty. In fact these ideals may in fact have been fairly misunderstood or undeveloped relative to the point the OP is at now.
Honor, kindness and honesty are not absolutes in that they are hardwired into every person's thinking. Our understanding of them develops with each new experience we have in life. 
Just think of the experiences you have had just this very day! Now expand that view to include your whole life. Most if not all may have gone unrecognized in the moment. But it was the sum of each of them that has brought us to this point in lives.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

marduk said:


> I'm having flashbacks to my buddy's wife.
> 
> She, too, found her 'soulmate' in the form of one of his best friends. She 'didn't mean for it to happen' and 'it was just meant to be' and 'he gets me in ways that my husband never did...'
> 
> ...


Ahhh!-Soulmates...


----------



## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

soul mates is hog wash. It's the excitement of new.

BTW you are having an emotional affair. You are sneaking around and hiding this relationship behind your spouses back. You want to try before you buy. Thing is you can't afford to buy because you are already indebted to your current wife.

Get divorced, then go shopping for a soul mate.


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

You keep saying your not a cheater, while you state that you have talked with this other woman "at length" about your emotional affair, and how you see it playing out.

That "connection" you're experiencing is nothing more than what physical affair partners experience. Everything is "perfect" and the other person just "gets them". Being with each other is like an escape from all the problems that your evil spouse is the source of. The reason this other person is so refreshing is because you don't have to deal with all their dirty laundry. You don't have anything to fight about, because you don't live with each other. You don't have to handle the everyday stresses of life.

What you're entertaining, is leaving a woman who has been through hell with you, and is still by your side, for some woman that you hardly even know, that has lots of crud piled up that you don't know exists yet. To say nothing about the moral consequences of your actions.


----------



## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

marduk said:


> #1 Come clean to your wife and see if your "soul mate" does the same.
> 
> #2 Take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself how this woman can be your "soul mate" when you've never actually been together. This isn't very grown-up, man.
> 
> ...


#4 Spend the day with your soul mates mother and listen to her stories and see what she expects from you as a future son-in-law. 

(After this you might decide the OW isn't your soul mate after all.)


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Ynot said:


> This begs the question of why would this same statement not apply to his marriage? After all don't most people get married for precisely the excitement we have (at that time) for our SO? Perhaps in the excitement of love he married her against everything he knew (then) about honor, kindness and honesty. In fact these ideals may in fact have been fairly misunderstood or undeveloped relative to the point the OP is at now.
> Honor, kindness and honesty are not absolutes in that they are hardwired into every person's thinking. Our understanding of them develops with each new experience we have in life.
> Just think of the experiences you have had just this very day! Now expand that view to include your whole life. Most if not all may have gone unrecognized in the moment. But it was the sum of each of them that has brought us to this point in lives.


I have to be honest when I say that this isn't coherent for me.

I really doubt that his marriage challenged his sense of honor, kindness, and honesty at the time he entered into it. It is now challenging all of these, since he has not been open about his feelings with his BW.

Honor, kindness, and honesty are actually hardwired into us as social beings, although how they are manifested can be different and change from person to person. One person's white lie can be another's serious transgression, etc.

That being said, fundamental morality doesn't suddenly become 'unfundamental' as we live our lives. We can become more or less judgmental, but the actual qualities still maintain their core meaning.

Unless this OP hasn't told us the whole story, he wasn't cheating and lying to his BW when he married her. Now he is & he isn't at all comfortable with what he is doing, I would bet. He knows that what he is doing to his BW is wrong, but he justifies it to himself by saying that his feelings for his soulmate are simply more important.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> I have to be honest when I say that this isn't coherent for me.
> 
> *So you are saying that it is incoherent to you that your statement could not be just applicable to his marriage as it is now?*
> 
> ...


*Actually the OP is not justifying anything. It is very obvious that he is struggling with how he feels. In fact he is now currently engaged in that struglle. That was the reason that he posted here to begin with - to seek some clarity. I am struggling to understand why anyone would think it is a good idea to stay in a situation that does not make them happy on the basis of something they said or did when they were a whole different person. I guess it is the difference between accepting change as a fact of life and being responsible to your self or holding on to some perceived timeless ideal and being responsible to others. Before you can even think about loving another, being responsible to another, honoring another, being committed to another, you must first be all those things to your self. *


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

I've been on this board a while, and have never told this story; but if it will help you, then I'm willing to share.

I was in a similar situation 27 years ago. I was married to my first wife of 8 years (no children) and my current wife was engaged to another man. We met at work. We started out as friends. In fact, my first wife and I even went out to dinner one evening with my current wife and her fiance. I wouldn't have thought that later, I'd wind up in an EA with her; but I did. So I cheated on my first wife by having this EA, just like you're doing now.

So what next? I decided to move out of the house and take the plunge. I divorced my first wife in 4 months time - not knowing if my current wife would break off her engagement and not knowing for sure whether she and I would see it through together. I felt, like you do now, that I wasn't really happy in my marriage (I won't go into all the details)and had made a mistake in marrying her in the first place. Also, I thought if I could feel this way about another woman that we'd both be better off. So at least I wasn't a cake eater, not that it excused the EA.

My current wife and I married about 6 months later and my first wife re-married not long after. 

23 years later my current wife had a 2 year PA. Though it took a few years, the old saying of "if she will cheat with you she will cheat on you" turned out to be prophetic. So, I got hit by the Karma bus and I deserved it. We're currently 4 years in R.

So here's my take OP; you've already cheated. That said, my advice is don't sit on the fence. At least, don't physically cheat on your wife. Either divorce your wife and take your chances or end contact with this OW and re-commit to your marriage. 

Good luck. You will need it if you try the former.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Lol you guys can argue the meaning of life and original sin and nature vs nurture all you want.

Emotions and brain chemistry will foil your theories in the time it takes our neurons to fire. Keep encouraging the chemical response and it becomes its own feedback loop.

I recall stories in the '80's about rats that would hit a bar to keep getting cocaine until they died - no interest in food or sex. 

The OP does have a value system in place it seems and it also seems he has been presented with a bar that he can choose to keep pressing or no. Or does he really have a fighting chance? If you want to argue theories, argue whether he does have a choice to NOT press the bar once the brain chemistry starts.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

BTW OP - from my prior post you should know my feelings here.

To me you are that buddy who just drank a girl pretty, and it's last call and we're your friends trying to convince you this is a very bad idea.

I've been there too and could never get my buddies to listen. And they always woke up, and they always regretted it.


----------



## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

crazz2323 said:


> but know I am really a nice person and do not want to hurt anyone.


You're not a nice person, your a selfish coward. You're the one who had control of the situation, you're the one who knew if things were becoming too much, however instead of sitting your wife down like a man and talking about it, you got lost in the fairytale of this new shiny woman that comes with 0% interest.

Why don't you stop being a deceitful coward, grow some balls and sit down and talk to the woman you made your wedding vows too. Be a man, not a wimp.


----------



## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

TBT said:


> This is what it really boils down to,a way to shore up your bet. Isn't being soulmates enough of a guarantee?
> 
> No matter what weight your wife may or may not have pulled in your relationship,she deserves the respect of honesty and not being your plan B. My thinking is that your wife and your marriage can't be all that bad if you keep holding them in this position.


He's just a coward thinking with his organ, real men stay by there wives good or bad, they don't chase the first piece of skirt they see when the going gets tough. Love and marriage takes work...


----------



## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Ahhh!-Soulmates...


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

OP hasn't returned


----------



## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> OP hasn't returned


He was looking for a sycophant and did not find it


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

It's a shame OP likely won't return.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> Tech, I wonder if after that horrible comment your ex made when you were having chest pains would've been the beginning of the end anyway? Even if your wife hadn't been in the picture at the time.? I know it would've made me reevaluate my marriage.


Also sounds like a detachment statement that a lot of people might say if they know or suspect their partner is in love with someone else or when they can tell the partner doesn't love or even like them any more. But even when there's no suspicion, arguments in a relationship where there' a third person are not credible. There's just too much motive for the one wanting out to find fault and to bait the other partner into showing fault.

Statistically speaking Tech is the outlier. For every fifty marriages of two people who were both married when they met, only one of them last. And about all of the people think they will be the exception because they are so in love. That's a really low odds. About the same as pulling a card from a deck and guessing it right.

I guess a consolation is that all of them last for some period of time. Just not many are ever after lasting.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

In total my wife and I have been together for 26 years. It started out as an affair and we are still together.

So it can happen. But I admit that we may be in the minority.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> Also sounds like a detachment statement that a lot of people might say if they know or suspect their partner is in love with someone else or when they can tell the partner doesn't love or even like them any more. But even when there's no suspicion, arguments in a relationship where there' a third person are not credible. There's just too much motive for the one wanting out to find fault and to bait the other partner into showing fault.


Actually, that was not terribly out of character for my ex-wife, J. And I had been extremely careful to keep my vows up to that point. I had made no indication of interest to S of anything other than our work relationship.



Thundarr said:


> Statistically speaking Tech is the outlier. For every fifty marriages of two people who were both married when they met, only one of them last. And about all of the people think they will be the exception because they are so in love. That's a really low odds. About the same as pulling a card from a deck and guessing it right.
> 
> I guess a consolation is that all of them last for some period of time. Just not many are ever after lasting.


I know that I'm an outlier, and said so in the introduction to my story. So it is a risky endeavor that on rare occasions works out.


----------



## zackie (Aug 27, 2013)

All relationships have low odds regardless of the starting circumstances. 

I had an affair during my marriage and thought I was in love. Only when I did some research via internet digging did I find out what kind of guy he really was. I was shocked. You think you know this woman but there is more you don't know than what you DO know. I'm not saying you should stay with your wife if you are not happy with your marriage, but the decision should be made independent of your affair with this other woman.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Ynot said:


> *Actually the OP is not justifying anything. It is very obvious that he is struggling with how he feels. In fact he is now currently engaged in that struglle. That was the reason that he posted here to begin with - to seek some clarity. I am struggling to understand why anyone would think it is a good idea to stay in a situation that does not make them happy on the basis of something they said or did when they were a whole different person. I guess it is the difference between accepting change as a fact of life and being responsible to your self or holding on to some perceived timeless ideal and being responsible to others. Before you can even think about loving another, being responsible to another, honoring another, being committed to another, you must first be all those things to your self. *


Actually, anthropologists tell us that social values such as honor are in fact hard-wired. Societies all over the world exhibit the same basic set of values that are deemed to be supportive of social cohesion and thus survival, since we are social animals. We are *biologically* social animals. These universal similarities are not coincidences. No social scientist or anthropologist would assert so.

And I believe you are incoherent. His choices are not binary. They never have been. We all have to 'accept change,' but we can do it with honesty and honor. He could discuss all this with his BW and opt for a divorce before he starts an affair. No one has him chained down. His 'old' values don't have him imprisoned such that he can't be true to his 'new' self. HE CAN GET A DIVORCE BEFORE HE STARTS ANOTHER RELATIONSHIP. This is a choice that allows him to acknowledge that he is 'a different person,' but still allows his wife the respect of his honesty and vows.

And, make no mistake, this is at least an EA by standard definitions. He is definitely justifying with his feelings of having found his soulmate. That love feeling that he has is allowing him to justify cheating on his wife.

Finally - of course he's not a 'whole different person.' He's the same person who has evolved and grown up. Just like the rest of us. In my opinion, he can choose to do the HONORABLE thing, which is to be honest with his wife and decide how to proceed.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

technovelist said:


> I know I'm going to get bashed here, but I can testify that it is *possible *for such a situation to work out *for the soulmates.*
> 
> Note that I'm not saying that it is a good idea to do this, because I know the odds are against it.
> 
> ...


There are always exceptions to the rule.

Plus you did it the right way. You openly left your wife and divorced her.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

technovelist said:


> Actually, that was not terribly out of character for my ex-wife, J. And I had been extremely careful to keep my vows up to that point. I had made no indication of interest to S of anything other than our work relationship.


I'm guessing you would deviate the route you took if you had it to do over. At least I know I would change quite a few things about how I let some treat me on occasion when I was younger. Plus starting a relationship like that must add baggage to be dealt with.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> I'm guessing you would deviate the route you took if you had it to do over. At least I know I would change quite a few things about how I let some treat me on occasion when I was younger.


Yes, I would definitely have done quite a few things differently if I had known then what I know now.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up (Jan 11, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Wow, she's your soul mate and the love of your life only after a few weeks!
> 
> Have you two even done anything meaningful together?
> 
> ...



And that is just the courtship phase!


----------



## crazz2323 (Nov 14, 2015)

Wow thanks all for the replies. I didn't leave, just been really busy at work and had not had time to sit down and respond or read through the posts until now. I really am looking for advice as my brain is clouded and I know that. What I really would like to have heard was more about what others did in a similar situation and if they took the plunge, what was the outcome? 

Believe me, I know what I am doing is so wrong, and yes I am scared to make a move either way. Part of it is that I do not want to hurt anyone. I really hate hurting people and its one of the reasons I'm in the situation with my wife that I am. Once we fight, I lose all care for what I was thinking about or what I wanted to say, just had to make peace and get things back to normal. I really wanted to talk to my wife about my struggles and maybe even work through them with her but I am hesitant to bring this new person into the mix at all because if things did go the way of divorce, I do not want her to be the reason. I do not want the start of a new relationship to be soured by everyone knowing she was a "mistress" of sorts or think she was the reason we split. 

Just throwing this out here but maybe some of these relationships that were started before, during or after a divorce don't work out because of all the negativity and hostility surrounding the new relationship. Once the cats out of the bag, everyone knows, family friends etc. No one would ever accept the new woman if things did work out with her and all the negativity would definitely hurt the new relationship. It would hurt any relationship I think. 

What I am trying to do is separate my feelings for my wife from this other relationship. I need to know if I am just unhappy and divorce was inevitable anyway or that this new relationship is the driving force instead. Hard to do when your head is clouded. That is exactly why I am not doing anything rash, including getting more involved with the new woman. I also thought, flawed as my crazy logic maybe, that if the topic with my wife did come up, it would be worse to hear you slept with someone else and were emotionally involved vs just hearing you were emotionally involved but never "cheated". 

The new woman and I have talked a lot and nothing more. We talk about work, our spouses and family and friends, just getting to know each other. She has been very open about her flaws and the mistakes she has made and does not want any surprises. She is also willing to wait for me to decide what I want in my life and will accept whatever I choose. I am not under any pressure by her to move forward. Yes, we have talked about the strong feelings for each other as well. That is the hot topic because it puts us in a tough situation. I am 90% sure she is in a divorce spiral. She has tried everything she could to make her marriage work over many years but her husband just doesn't care. I can't just walk away, the feelings are too strong (rat at the bar I guess) but I also am trying to learn more about how I really feel about my marriage. It is nice to have someone to talk to about my situation to try to sort it all out. I figure if I can even fall into this type of situation, then maybe that is a sign that I am not happy. 

So, I made a move, of sorts, after my wife has been rather unpleasant lately and had one of her violent fits, I decided I want to get out for a week to think. This is after being threatened for me to get out or she will (that is nothing new when her tempers flare). So here I am away from home and I am enjoying the freedom, really not missing her (it’s only been two days though), but also feeling extremely guilty and confused. She wants me to come back, which I was not expecting hence the guilt. This is the first time I ever called her bluff in 15 years by not trying to make peace and suppress my own feelings. Now, the tables have turned. I was shocked, never thought it was possible, she can be so headstrong. I am so lost right now.... oddly though if she was still angry vs sad, I would not have any regrets at all but instead she got sad. Another sign that maybe I give up and should move on? I do not think I am ready yet for divorce; we have more to sort out and talk about first. If she and I see eye to eye on where our marriage is now, the divorce may be a smoother and accepted agreement vs a you cheated on me and I am crushed divorce.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

crazz2323 said:


> Wow thanks all for the replies. I didn't leave, just been really busy at work and had not had time to sit down and respond or read through the posts until now. I really am looking for advice as my brain is clouded and I know that. What I really would like to have heard was more about what others did in a similar situation and if they took the plunge, what was the outcome?
> 
> Believe me, I know what I am doing is so wrong, and yes I am scared to make a move either way. Part of it is that I do not want to hurt anyone. I really hate hurting people and its one of the reasons I'm in the situation with my wife that I am. Once we fight, I lose all care for what I was thinking about or what I wanted to say, just had to make peace and get things back to normal. I really wanted to talk to my wife about my struggles and maybe even work through them with her but I am hesitant to bring this new person into the mix at all because if things did go the way of divorce, I do not want her to be the reason. I do not want the start of a new relationship to be soured by everyone knowing she was a "mistress" of sorts or think she was the reason we split.
> 
> ...


The more you run away from what you must ultimately face, the more difficult it will become.

You probably found her anger to be a convenient way to escape for a week. No one should have to tolerate verbal abuse, but I wonder if you haven't emotionally reached out to the OW this week, telling her all about your row with your wife? Maybe every so slightly opening the door to invite her over? 

What you needed to do was tell your wife you will not tolerate being berated any longer and if you are done with her, be done. You say you don't want to hurt anyone, well sorry but avoiding hurt is not possible. You've already hurt your wife, she's just ignorant of it. You'll have to own your choices and grow a thicker skin. 

What do you care what people think of you and the OW? People talk,.... Haters hate. They aren't living your life, you are. Just do the thing honorably as another poster said, and your personal guilt will be far less.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*What you've so aptly described is nothing more than a ubiquitous license to cheat with no honor by either of you for the noble institution of marriage!

What feelings, if any, do you have for your respective legitimate spouses and other family members?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crazz2323 (Nov 14, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *What you've so aptly described is nothing more than a ubiquitous license to cheat with no honor by either of you for the noble institution of marriage!
> 
> What feelings, if any, do you have for your respective legitimate spouses and other family members?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is not her family I am worried about, never been that close to them, it's mine. If things were to end, and they knew all the circumstances behind it, I could never just have her over for dinner with parents or friends without an awkwardness. I want this to be clean. If I do decide, the marriage is over then I will end it but first I need to talk more about the issues with my wife first. I am not ready to make that move. Me moving out for a week was to help me think alone and kind of test (I know its only a week) being out on my own again. Also, the OT has not been over yet. 

Honestly, I have been thinking about it regardless of meeting someone else, this is more of a catalyst for it but I am trying to separate the two. I need more time to sort things out before I do anything, that's why we are keeping it just talking. I am not looking for sex or a quick fling. I am looking for what I have been missing and needing all these years in a spouse, I am looking for real love and me to really love back. 

This person, in many ways meets that but I also know her flaws and she knows mine, no one is perfect and we are trying to put it all out there to make sure I am doing this not just for a fantasy but for real.

I have never been in a situation like this in my entire life. When I was 19, I had to girls like me alot at the same time, one an ex and another new. I told them both the situation and I had to make a choice. There were no secrets on either end and I spent a lot of time thinking of which way to go. Again, caught in the fear of hurting someone, I really do hate to do that.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Look, if your wife is as fiery as you say she is, she's going to talk smack about you to your family no matter what. You could date 5 years from now and be a total monk before then. 

My dad was previously married with 3 kids before he met my mom. He'd been divorced for 5 years and still his ex wife told their kids that he dumped her for a younger, hotter model (my mom). To this day, my mom still gives them money for their own children's college funds out of kindness, and never held anything against them for being poisoned by lies for many years. 

So your family is gonna think what they're gonna think initially, but time heals many things.


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

A relationship built on the ashes of 2 destroyed marriages is not a good foundation. You're letting your emotions control you. The excitement of a new woman, that is obviously using you as an exit affair, is clouding your thinking. If you truly have tried everything to revive your marriage, then the proper course is to divorce and live by yourself for sometime in order to detach. To go from one marriage straight into another is a mistake. 

Also a woman that is willing to betray her marriage/family in such a manner is NOT marriage material. You're letting your lower head do your thinking. If you were thinking logically, you would know that a woman that wants to betray her husband and father of her kids for a man she barely knows is not a catch. A woman like that is only worth a couple of bangs at the most, not even worthy of a short term relationship.

Members of TAM's CWI are a pro-marriage lot. If you're looking for moral support on betraying your wife for this newly found "soulmate," you will disappointed. Here, you'll rightly get 2x4 for your despicable behavior.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So...you are a Nice Guy and because you are a Nice Guy, your relationship got lopsided and you started feeling unloved, unappreciated, and uninspired. Note that I am not blaming this on your wife, although you like to blame her 'anger' for your unhappiness. Had you gotten help for your being a Nice Guy, she would have stopped with the anger.

And along comes a cute bubbly personality with NO BAGGAGE - no holding her head over the toilet when she's sick, no arguing over paying bills, no compromises to make yet - and she is all rainbows and unicorns. Because you're high on your addiction - the PEA chemicals coursing through your brain and body - you are SURE that you are in love, that this is the love of your life, that nobody could ever compare to her. 

The only problem is that IT IS FAKE. It is a drug addiction. You are no longer thinking clearly or logically. Because you are ADDICTED to the high of the PEA chemicals.

Therefore, any decision you make to 'choose' this unicorns and rainbows girl will ruin your life.

http://affaircare.com/articles/what-is-disloyal-fog-2/

This is what you SHOULD be focusing on:


> Glover's premise is that nice guys have been conditioned by their childhoods and by society to believe that they will be successful only if they make everyone happy and never cause any problems for others. However, this desire for approval results in self-loathing. In other words, nice guys want approval, but don't think they deserve it. This creates internal frustration, since nice guys never try to obtain what they want in life. In addition, the nice guy's desire to obtain approval from everyone (especially women), causes him to actually behave in very un-nice ways. This includes dishonesty (about themselves) and passive-aggressive behavior ("being unavailable, forgetting, being late, not following through...").
> 
> Dr. Glover's prescription involves getting nice guys to recognize that their needs and desires are important, and that to make others happy they must first learn to make themselves happy. One of the primary ways advised in the book to remedy this is for nice guys to learn to embrace and develop their masculine traits, instead of fearing and suppressing them.


http://www.drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy.html

And btw, if she cheats WITH you, she will cheat ON you.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I know a couple who met eleven years ago while married to other people. There was strong attraction. After a few months of frequent interaction, and a week of sex while his wife was out of town, they each decided to leave their spouses. 

Today they have two kids and seem to be loving life together. Some things may just be meant to be, regardless of societal disapproval.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

What's that ? You want to cheat on your wife with a woman who wants to cheat on her husband, you say ?


Well then, both of you ---- DON'T !!!


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Oh sorry - just saw it - I missed the "love of my life" bit. Ah now I get it.




But still ------- DON'T!!! Seriously!


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

crazz2323 said:


> So, I made a move, of sorts, after my wife has been rather unpleasant lately and had one of her violent fits, I decided I want to get out for a week to think. So here I am away from home and I am enjoying the freedom, really not missing her


Tell the truth. Now that you aren't around your wife, how many times have you contacted the OW? Any in person?


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Why didn't you and your wife have children?

Clearly you don't love your wife. Divorce her. 

As to the other woman, you should end it. Tell her that it is wrong for you to be involved with a married woman.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, I said it from the get go - work on yourself before you even think about a relationship with anyone else. You have to be some thing yourself before you can be any thing to others. You are setting yourself for the next series of disasters in your life - your divorce followed by your unhappiness in the new relationship. Fix yourself first.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

OP, how did you accidentally meet this woman? Do you work together?


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Provided you want to be with "the love of your life" eternally, then just do the honorable(or possibly dishonorable) thing with your W first, and legally release her per the process of divorce!

And once that task is duly performed, find yourself a nice quiet venue to be alone with God, offer up prayer, and see if He even remotely agrees with your conscience that what you two did was indeed the right thing and that you both handled it to His exacting specifications!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ok OP let's leave the OW out if this for a second.

You stood up to your wife and what happened? She woke up. She felt threatened maybe for the first time ever. And she felt sadness and maybe even regret.

This is your opportunity to work on your marriage. Maybe now you can learn to man up and speak your mind before you get to the point of anger and resentment. And maybe now she'll listen.

Your marriage could change for the better


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Idk, truth. I think feeling threatened is an unhealthy basis for working on a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Feeling threatened is a far cry from BEING threatened, and is a temporary fixture. He's spent the whole marriage kissing her ass and doing what she wants, while she gets angrier and angrier at his weakness. Now, when he finally sees a way out and actually agrees with her, she's taken aback and thinking WTH just happened? THAT IS GOOD. 

Truth is right - NOW is the time when he can say 'this isn't working for me, what are we going to do about it?'


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Feeling threatened might in reality be the same as being threatened. Her marriage is threatened right now, no doubt.

I guess it is hard for me to have sympathy for controlling spouses, whether male or female. I know I would not want to live with a controller. And neither would my husband. We both think marriage should be a free will experience. I would say that is especially true without any kids involved.

OP, how likely do you think your wife is to change, really change?

If you think this could be a whole new ballgame, then stay and work it out with her.

If not, then I think you know what you need to do. And realize that you would be freeing up your wife to meet someone she is more naturally compatible with, too.

Just want to say, too, OP, that I am sorry you are going through this. I am sure you feel a great weight on your shoulders. I wish you the best as you take a serious look at the best interests of all involved.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jld said:


> Feeling threatened might in reality be the same as being threatened. Her marriage is threatened right now, no doubt.
> 
> I guess it is hard for me to have sympathy for controlling spouses


WTH are you even talking about?

SHE threatened HIM with leaving, which he says is typical for her, and this time he took her up on it and left!

THAT'S IT!

How is that threatening? How is that controlling?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think she feels her marriage is threatened. That is the threatening part.

Iirc, he feels she has been controlling. That is the controlling part.

Like I said, I would not want to live with a controller, and neither would my husband. If OP's wife is controlling, I don't blame him for wanting to leave her.


----------



## Unhappy_girl (Aug 19, 2015)

what have you actually ever done in the past to ever work on/save your marriage?


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Lol could not open thread - kept generating errors. I think it's a bug in the mobile version because I have JLD on my blocked list and maybe she was the last poster. I find her posts to be out of left field and they tend to start arguments. I happened to see a quote of her post but she was confused - thought OP was the controlling one when it is OPs wife with the control issues... Oh well


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

jld said:


> I know a couple who met eleven years ago while married to other people. There was strong attraction. After a few months of frequent interaction, and a week of sex while his wife was out of town, they each decided to leave their spouses.
> 
> Today they have two kids and seem to be loving life together. Some things may just be meant to be, regardless of societal disapproval.


maybe so.. these stories still make me want to puke though. Not just this one, but others as well.


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Right there with you, TheGoodGuy.

And OP, your Affair Partner IS the reason you want to divorce your wife right now. If you had never met your AP/didn't know she existed, would you still want to leave her right now.

For fvck sake - at least be honest with yourself.


----------



## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

This isn't that hard. Controlling, threatening that's all crap.

You met someone you are attracted to and now you believe the grass is greener. Maybe you never noticed before, but now you do. So either leave your marriage, or work to fix it. 

Just don't start one relationship until you've finished the first.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> I agree with JLD in this instance.


Call me surprised.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

turnera said:


> Call me surprised.


Made me LOL, too


----------



## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Aaaaargh I blocked JLD but she keeps showing up cause you guys keep quoting and referring to her. Aaaargh


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

OP, let me get this right...

you stand up for yourself for the FIRST time in your 15 YEAR marriage, and your wifes response is something you never thought would happen?


are you kidding me! have you done ANYTHING AT ALL to fix your marriage, EVER?


basically, what im getting from this is that you have never stood up for yourself and not only accepted her angry outbursts, but encouraged them by constantly trying to placate her. 


should you choose to leave your wife for your AP, you better hope that you never have any issues whatsoever with her, because if you dont learn how to deal with them, you are going to end up in the same situation again. only next time, you wont be the only one who considers cheating to be a viable option.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

As'laDain said:


> OP, let me get this right...
> 
> you stand up for yourself for the FIRST time in your 15 YEAR marriage, and your wifes response is something you never thought would happen?
> 
> ...


Like I said. You're a Nice Guy and because of that, your marriage was becoming more and more UN-fun and along comes a cute, fun girl whom you think will NOT be like your wife and instead of taking a hard look at your role in your marriage and maybe needing to change some things, you're picking the easy way out - running, to try something new.

Problem is, whereever you go, there you are. You'll just bring your same problems to your next relationship.

lol, I'm sure you didn't intend to get this onslaught of 'advice.' But that's because when someone comes here wanting to know how best to do something so horrible, nobody's gonna hand you that cigarette, kwim?


----------



## crazz2323 (Nov 14, 2015)

Thanks again for the replies; this is actually helping me sort things out some. I am not expecting candy and praises based on what I am doing so I understand the harshness. Understand this is really out of character for me and I am still amazed I am even in this situation, it is surreal. I guess in the right situation at the right time, anyone can screw up. 

Yes, Satya, in the back of my mind, I knew an explosive fight would come as it always does but was surprised one came so quickly over hardly anything, so yes, I found her anger to be a convenient way to escape for a week but I did want to get away to think as well. I do care about what others think, that’s part of my problem! Why would anyone want bad feelings invading a new relationship? There is a big difference when a family accepts your partner vs when they don’t. In the long run will it matter? Maybe not but it sucks and will suck the joy out of some of the relationship. I really do want to tell my wife all about my situation but I just can’t too much bad blood will come of it. 

The other woman has tried for years to fix her marriage before coming to this point. Once her kids move out, she was already planning divorce long before meeting me. Her husband doesn’t even want to try. I, on the other hand, was not so advanced as her in my troubles. Since I suppressed all these feelings for so long, I have a callous over my heart for my wife. I was always big on communication but could not communicate with her without results that are not worth the effort. So in reality, I have not really worked on fixing my marriage much except in my own head which is one of the reasons I am not jumping ship so fast.

Turnea, thanks for the articles that was a good read. I have never been addicted to anything so it’s hard to say if I am of sound mind and body here but I do not feel I am addicted. I have tried to be logical, and deal with my issues in my own mind and I recognize that what I am doing is wrong but I also want to make sure I am not lost in a fog, hence the taking time to think things through and talk more with the wife before making any hasty decisions.

The other woman has never cheated before and never planned to. Her marriage is already over and she has given up on fixing it, just a matter of time now. She is however very nice, caring and from what I have seen so far, the ideal wife. Personally, I think her husband is crazy for losing her. She has been very willing to pull the plug at any time with us if I say so and has made every effort to not pressure me, and she hasn’t. That is not really the sign of someone trying to use me as an out and get me out. The only reason she would ever have let this happen is because she has tried for years to fix her current marriage but the husband has no interest. She is emotionally spent, but accepted it is what it is. She has even told her husband she is leaving once the kids are gone and he gives no reaction, doesn’t believe her. This is all before me. Considering the circumstances, this is why I do not feel that she will just cheat on a whim. She has tried everything to fix her marriage already, that’s not a sign of someone who jumps ship at the drop of a dime. She was always a very dedicated wife. So my fear is not with that once a cheater, always a cheater mentality. Me on the other hand, I am still trying to figure out.

Jld, I hope if this all goes down, that that positive story you posted does come true. I would really be happy to see my wife with someone more compatible with her and happy for myself as well.
I just figure the fact that since I let this happen, it is a sign things are not right with my current marriage. So I am trying to do some soul searching as to the root cause of her anger and my failure. If it is an addiction, then wouldn’t time and the wearing off of those brain drugs help you see more clearly? I would imagine, if I waited instead of acted so fast based on emotion, I would see more clearly right? Maybe the other woman and I would come to some realizations. Either way she is getting divorced, it’s almost a no question. 

Some good advice from Ynot:
OP, I said it from the get go - work on yourself before you even think about a relationship with anyone else. You have to be something yourself before you can be any thing to others. You are setting yourself for the next series of disasters in your life - your divorce followed by your unhappiness in the new relationship. Fix yourself first.

I am trying to do just that, instead of quickly divorcing or changing the status with the new woman, I am trying to figure out myself first. 
TheTruthHurts is right, this is my opportunity to work on my marriage but I don’t really want to at this point. I don’t know if it’s the callous in my heart, the addiction you all say is common, or the fact that I just don’t love her. You would think if you wanted to stay married you would want to try to fix it. I have a tendency that once I get fed up with a situation or person, a switch flips and all emotion towards that subject is gone. I am very patient up to that point and can go on for a very long time but once that switch flips and I have had enough, it’s done. I am afraid my switch may have flipped in this situation.

Nomorebeans, who said: And OP, your Affair Partner IS the reason you want to divorce your wife right now. If you had never met your AP/didn't know she existed, would you still want to leave her right now.
I don’t know for sure and that is a question I have asked myself. I would probably have still suppressed it all like before at least for now but I know I have been running out of patience. In times prior to me meeting anyone, I was starting to resist giving in and of course that made things much worse but I was starting not to care. I think this new relationship is a catalyst to move me forward on it all but I was already on that path.
You are right As'laDain, but I have learned from my past mistakes and the new woman is quite the opposite of my wife, very open, put out all her flaws, and let me know the truth. I already have been able to discuss my concerns and talk about the difficult stuff easily without a bomb dropping. We really seem to have much more in common and just gel well together. I do not foresee history repeating itself in that case.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

crazz2323 said:


> Yes, Satya, in the back of my mind, I knew an explosive fight would come as it always does but was surprised one came so quickly over hardly anything, so yes, I found her anger to be a convenient way to escape for a week but I did want to get away to think as well. I do care about what others think, that’s part of my problem! Why would anyone want bad feelings invading a new relationship? There is a big difference when a family accepts your partner vs when they don’t. In the long run will it matter? Maybe not but it sucks and will suck the joy out of some of the relationship. I really do want to tell my wife all about my situation but I just can’t too much bad blood will come of it.


When people get mad at you, it shows that they still care. If she were stonewalling you and generally ignoring you, it'd probably mean she's done. So, the reason I tell you to drop the other shoe and actually be done is because YOUR behavior indicates that you are there and have been there for a while.

If you're insisting you not tell her, then accept at least that she's going to find out the truth someday. Maybe she won't care at that point, maybe she'll go ballistic 10 years from now. It's no one's business what happens between you two, but she will not have the same support and comfort you've had in the knowledge you are so adamant about denying her. She will be surprised that you wanted to pull the plug I suspect, because her anger was likely a very childish and misguided way of holding on.

My mother didn't approve of my first husband, didn't approve of my current SO, and despite being one of the most overly logical minds I know, has softened regarding my SO over time. That's because when she talked [email protected] about him for no reason, I told her that she was welcome to her feelings, but that I would not tolerate her berating him to my face when in fact he'd done much to help her out of kindness. That I wouldn't tolerate her seeing with clouded eyes and telling me I'm WRONG for clearly being happier than I had in a long time. That I wouldn't tolerate her telling me to date more when I'd spent 2 years dating, broken up by one 8 month long relationship. That I wouldn't tolerate her projecting onto me her own issues, failings, and anger because I don't need that kind of negativity in my life. And when she chose to stomp all over my boundaries with a tantrum, I stayed the dutiful daughter, helped her during a stressful move, but I stayed emotionally distant and focused on enjoying my life with my SO. 

Over time, she saw that I wasnt telling her to change her feelings, but that I was going to do what I wanted regardless of them so she could keep feeling them all she wanted, bit I wouldn't accept her passive aggressive jabs at a person I care about deeply. It's basic disrespect and I won't tolerate it. 

My cousin on the other hand, knows how I feel and is enormously happy for me. The difference is like night and day when you have someone who understands and supports the relationship. I get it. My mom is still my mom, though, and since I put my foot down with her our relationship has been miles better. Not only that, she has accepted my SO and her tune has greatly changed. She actually sees and acknowledges my happiness now that the cloud has lifted. 

My mom has learned that I have balls, more balls than her, and that unlike many people, I have no fear of losing face or contact with loved ones due to my decisions. It is not meant as a scare tactic at all, it's just the way I am. They will either take me as I am or not, and I freely give them that choice without influence or hard feelings. They don't live my life, they don't know the path I've walked, and they aren't going to magically provide me my happiness. I also don't hold them responsible for my mistakes. I am the owner of my own destiny.

I don't know if any of the above means much to your situation, but I used to really care what people thought. I'd defend my actions constantly. I realized I don't owe them an explanation, but I owe it to me to do what I believe to be right and live by it. It's surprising how differently family and friends look upon me now.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Your feelings for this OW are transient. Have you seen one of her tirades? Ask her H why they are divorcing and why he does not want to try and save the marriage. One does not casually discard a precious gem. You have heard her side and she is wonderful. She is soulmate material, until she is no longer. You would be well served to work out your marital issues separate and away from the feelings for the OW. She is much farther from perfect than you currently perceive her to be.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

my wife and i couldnt stand each other when we first got married. we were not under any crazy delusions either, we both were fully aware of the fact that we barely knew each other. 


well guess what? my wife IS my soul mate today. we are because we both wanted to be and we were both willing to do the hard work of obliterating the old status quo in order to improve our marriage. 


so, you can leave your wife for another woman, but the problem is that you are letting your feelings dictate your actions, rather than your design of who you choose to be. 
your feelings will always change. that thing you are calling love is transient.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

OP, 16 years ago my bil divorced my sister after 20 years of marriage. Six weeks after their divorce was final, my sister met her second husband. Immediately her first husband wanted her back. She refused. 

She has been happily and peacefully married to the second husband for the last 15 years. She is still amazed at how much easier and fulfilling marriage is when there is natural compatibility between the partners.

Just food for thought, OP. Keep working through your concerns. It sounds like your lady friend has her own plan she is following, with or without you.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

jld said:


> I know a couple who met eleven years ago while married to other people. There was strong attraction. After a few months of frequent interaction, and a week of sex while his wife was out of town, they each decided to leave their spouses.
> 
> Today they have two kids and seem to be loving life together. Some things may just be meant to be, regardless of societal disapproval.


That's a lovely story where 2 people without integrity find each other. Bully for them. Where are their ex spouses in this so-called happy ending? Or do they not really factor in once they have been tossed aside.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

joannacroc said:


> That's a lovely story where 2 people without integrity find each other. Bully for them. Where are their ex spouses in this so-called happy ending? Or do they not really factor in once they have been tossed aside.


His wife was very upset. I don't know about her husband.

Do you think they should have stayed out of obligation?

That view certainly has its justifications. It is how marriage has probably always worked, up until more recent times.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

joannacroc said:


> That's a lovely story where 2 people without integrity find each other. Bully for them. Where are their ex spouses in this so-called happy ending? Or do they not really factor in once they have been tossed aside.


Sadly, life doesn't work out like you want it too. Despite the statistics some cheaters do live happily ever after with their AP's.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

jld said:


> His wife was very upset. I don't know about her husband.
> 
> Do you think they should have stayed out of obligation?
> 
> That view certainly has its justifications. It is how marriage has probably always worked, up until more recent times.


Not at all. Their ex spouses deserve better. But I have noticed a pattern in this type of "happy ending" and it is that the BS rarely factors into the narrative at all. It's as though they cease to exist in order for the unfaithful spouses to be able to tie up a story with a nice little bow.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

ButtPunch said:


> Sadly, life doesn't work out like you want it too. Despite the statistics some cheaters do live happily ever after with their AP's.


Now they think so, but I have to wonder if many of them will choose to cheat again when things get tough. After all, presumably they loved and chose their first spouses. Then when things didn't work out, suddenly the vows they exchanged didn't matter anymore and they spent their emotional and/or physical energy on their AP instead of their spouse. That kind of decision making doesn't just disappear for most people, I would think.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

crazz, did you get the book No More Mr Nice Guy and read it yet? 

Moving from one woman to another because she 'feels' better is NOT working on yourself. If you really mean it when you say you want to work on yourself, then do so. 

BY yourself.

Leave this poor woman alone and let her divorce her husband under some level of dignity, not under a cloud of shame.

Maybe down the road, after you both are legally divorced, you can look each other up and see if there's still something there.

But if you go through with this now just because you're jonesing for her, you'll live the rest of your lives under that cloud of shame.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

joannacroc said:


> Now they think so, but I have to wonder if many of them will choose to cheat again when things get tough. After all, presumably they loved and chose their first spouses. Then when things didn't work out, suddenly the vows they exchanged didn't matter anymore and they spent their emotional and/or physical energy on their AP instead of their spouse. That kind of decision making doesn't just disappear for* most *people, I would think.


Most but not all. My grandma was a cheater and met her a MM and they did live happily ever after until he died. Turns my stomach but it happens.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

turnera said:


> crazz, did you get the book No More Mr Nice Guy and read it yet?
> 
> Moving from one woman to another because she 'feels' better is NOT working on yourself. If you really mean it when you say you want to work on yourself, then do so.
> 
> ...


Exactly. You said in your first post you're "not a cheater." However, you now ARE a cheater. You're a cheater. You're a cheater. If you're OK with being a cheater, by all means, keep doing what you're doing. If you're not ok with being a cheater, knock it off.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think any time you go against societal norms, you risk disapproval. 

You have to live with your own conscience. Decide accordingly.


----------



## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Exactly. You said in your first post you're "not a cheater." However, you now ARE a cheater. You're a cheater. You're a cheater. If you're OK with being a cheater, by all means, keep doing what you're doing. If you're not ok with being a cheater, knock it off.


Simple. If you're going to be a crusty person it's better just to own up to it.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

What you and your affair partner are BOTH doing is making sure you have a soft landing before exploding your marriages. This is the ultimate in selfish behaviour that displays ZERO respect or fairness for the person you vowed to love and protect. You have basically both chosen to end your marriages and are now USING your unwitting spouses as tools for your personal comfort for what could be years until divorce can happen. Is that really the kind of person you are, and how you want to behave?



joannacroc said:


> That's a lovely story where 2 people without integrity find each other. Bully for them. Where are their ex spouses in this so-called happy ending? Or do they not really factor in once they have been tossed aside.


Same deal with that story. Those people both made sure they had soft landings before ending their marriages. That selfishness probably did huge damage to each of their spouses as the marriages were ending.



joannacroc said:


> Now they think so, but I have to wonder if many of them will choose to cheat again when things get tough. After all, presumably they loved and chose their first spouses. Then when things didn't work out, suddenly the vows they exchanged didn't matter anymore and they spent their emotional and/or physical energy on their AP instead of their spouse. That kind of decision making doesn't just disappear for most people, I would think.


Clearly, both people involved are the selfish type of people who prioritize their own needs above those of everybody around them. They are making unilateral decisions that their own security is of much greater importance than the security of the spouses they swore to protect.

They will be taking that attitude into their next relationships. Maybe there are other issues that were in their original marriages that aren't present, and maybe the second marriage will be a better one, but that won't retroactively justify what they did to their first spouses as having been ethical. They will just be people of poor character in a better marriage instead of people of poor character in bad marriages. And certainly none of that can ever be worth the suffering and indelible damage they will do to their first spouses' psyches.

All you are telling yourself, and trying to get us to tell you, is that your potential future happiness is worth the unhappiness you would be causing your current spouse.

It never is. Don't use people up and throw them out later when you are done with them.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

joannacroc said:


> Not at all. Their ex spouses deserve better. But I have noticed a pattern in this type of "happy ending" and it is that the BS rarely factors into the narrative at all. It's as though they cease to exist in order for the unfaithful spouses to be able to tie up a story with a nice little bow.





Hopeful Cynic said:


> What you and your affair partner are BOTH doing is making sure you have a soft landing before exploding your marriages. This is the ultimate in selfish behaviour that displays ZERO respect or fairness for the person you vowed to love and protect. You have basically both chosen to end your marriages and are now USING your unwitting spouses as tools for your personal comfort for what could be years until divorce can happen. Is that really the kind of person you are, and how you want to behave?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


QFT!! You two are my new favorite posters. take that for whatever it's worth, but y'all are spot on!


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

crazz2323 said:


> Nomorebeans, who said: And OP, your Affair Partner IS the reason you want to divorce your wife right now. If you had never met your AP/didn't know she existed, would you still want to leave her right now?
> 
> I don’t know for sure and that is a question I have asked myself. I would probably have still suppressed it all like before at least for now but I know I have been running out of patience. In times prior to me meeting anyone, I was starting to resist giving in and of course that made things much worse but I was starting not to care. I think this new relationship is a catalyst to move me forward on it all but I was already on that path.


I can't believe you just used that word: "catalyst." My ex used the exact same word - in fact, he used the exact same words, almost verbatim, in your response above when I pointed it out to him that he would not be leaving me right now if not for her.

Is there a Cheaters' Handbook you guys follow?

Have you told the OW you see her as just a catalyst for leaving your wife, and that, basically, if it weren't for her, it would be for someone else?

I'm gonna take an educated guess that you haven't.

Tell her that, and then you can tell me you really believe that.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nomorebeans, there IS a Cheater's Script. We watch it happen all.the.time. Over and over. Verbatim. That's why whenever someone is told "I love you but I'm not in love with you" - the ILYBINILWY speech - we KNOW their partner is cheating.


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

turnera said:


> Nomorebeans, there IS a Cheater's Script. We watch it happen all.the.time. Over and over. Verbatim. That's why whenever someone is told "I love you but I'm not in love with you" - the ILYBINILWY speech - we KNOW their partner is cheating.


Oh, you and I know there is one - most of here do. It's also known as "Stupid Sh!t Cheaters Say." And the OP is following the script to a tee without even realizing it.

When his wife finds out about the OW, and she will, whether he tells her or not - that's when the *really* idiotic "rationalizations" will start coming.

My heart hurts for her and the OW's husband. As has been said here, they have ceased to exist in their current spouses' eyes. They are only being held onto now as safe haven by two people who are petrified of being alone, and so need to use another person as a "catalyst" for leaving their unhappy marriages.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

crazz2323 said:


> Nomorebeans, who said: And OP, your Affair Partner IS the reason you want to divorce your wife right now. If you had never met your AP/didn't know she existed, would you still want to leave her right now.
> I don’t know for sure and that is a question I have asked myself. I would probably have still suppressed it all like before at least for now but I know I have been running out of patience. In times prior to me meeting anyone, I was starting to resist giving in and of course that made things much worse but I was starting not to care. I think this new relationship is a catalyst to move me forward on it all but I was already on that path.


Do more than just ponder on this crazz because it's important. You formed a lot of bad dynamics that are now habit. They are type of thing that will sabotage your future relationships. You're not gaining the strength that comes from facing your fears because you have a crutch that makes it less scary. That's why this type of relationship is statistically risky. It's two people leaning on each other and not learning to stand up on their own.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

crazz2323 said:


> It is not her family I am worried about, never been that close to them, it's mine. If things were to end, and they knew all the circumstances behind it, I could never just have her over for dinner with parents or friends without an awkwardness. I want this to be clean. If I do decide, the marriage is over then I will end it but first I need to talk more about the issues with my wife first. I am not ready to make that move. Me moving out for a week was to help me think alone and kind of test (I know its only a week) being out on my own again. Also, the OT has not been over yet.
> 
> Honestly, I have been thinking about it regardless of meeting someone else, this is more of a catalyst for it but I am trying to separate the two. I need more time to sort things out before I do anything, that's why we are keeping it just talking. I am not looking for sex or a quick fling. I am looking for what I have been missing and needing all these years in a spouse, I am looking for real love and me to really love back.
> 
> ...


You keep talking about what is missing in your W but you may be surprised that there is things missing in your OW too. As my grandmother used to say "come and live with me, then you'll know me'. 
The OW is probably only showing the best side of her, any woman who would engage in an EA with an OM has already negative brownie points and a major flaw in her character as she seems to have no regard or empathy for your W and maybe one day will do the same to you. 
As I heard in church one day, men leave their wives because they are missing 20% and move onto another relationship and soon discover they found the 20% but a different 40% is missing, but too late they have messed up their families, etc all for a selfish desire to get what they want. This is what you are doing. 

Instead of trying to work on your marriage, get IC for wife, MC for both etc you are prepared to follow your little head basically, same old same old story.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You are hearing a great sob story from the OW about the death of her marriage, how do you know it is the truth and you are not merely her potential knight in shining armour to take her away from her boring life?
It would be interesting to get the BH's take on their marriage, may be an entirely different story.


----------



## crazz2323 (Nov 14, 2015)

Actually, yes Nomorebeans, I did tell the OW that she is a catalyst for this. As I stated earlier, the OW and I have openly and honestly talked about everything to make sure there are no surprises. She has not been just telling me how great she is, she has been telling me all her flaws and even blames herself for her situation now. I have been telling her my flaws as well. She has tried for many years doing everything she could to reignite what her current husband and her had including counseling, he always refused to go so she went herself. He has not even been intimate with her in 3 years! She tried everything with that too. She is giving, beautiful, thin, athletic and passionate, there is no reason that should have happened. She has even asked her current husband if he loves her anymore and he never gives a straight answer. I really feel it is safe to say they are done. 

The thing that keeps me thinking I am done is not because of the OW but because I just lost the loving feeling with my wife. I feel the only thing keeping me from calling it quits now is that I don't want to hurt her. I know look what I am doing, I am an idiot that is for sure but it is really hard to give the final blow. I feel that if I knew she would be happy tomorrow, I could end it tonight. I am going to enjoy the holidays with my wife, and have lots of heart to heart talks (not afraid to say whats on my mind anymore) and all without the OW around and see how I feel.

So in all my soul searching, I have come to these facts: 
1) I do not miss my wife when she is gone on business trips, to visit parents etc. I actually look forward to it. This feeling has been going on for years long before I met the OW. Even if she was gone for months, I feel it would not phase me. 

2) The only thing really stopping me from pulling the plug is my guilt for hurting her. I hate to see a woman cry. Ending a marriage is like a death and I have the knife... horrible. 

3) I would like to be on my own again, even during this weeks outing, it was nice and peaceful. I am not very versed on abuse but to some degree, I feel my wife is a bit abusive, verbally. In some of her fits, she would throw things (not at me), break things or tear down stuff making a mess. She even made holes in our walls a few times before. To me that's just immature and very unnecessary. She can be sweet and usually is but she has a whole other side to her. 

4) The thought of her with someone more compatible and her happy makes me feel good. I do not feel jealousy or anger, just glad she could find someone more like her.

5) The same old discussions never die even 15 years later most of which is from being so opposite. Opposites may attract but they sure don't always work well together.

6) I let this OW situation happen.

So all these facts really tells me I am not in love anymore and honestly, I don't think I ever was. I feel I would enjoy my wife more as a friend then a wife. I think the switch has flipped and my patience for our issues has met the saturation point. Unless things change over the next few months, I think I know the route I will go. I feel like I am finally getting some focus. Thank you all for your help. I will update you if anything changes.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

" I am an idiot that is for sure but it is really hard to give the final blow. I feel that if I knew she would be happy tomorrow, I could end it tonight".

I love the way you mimimise what you are about to do, you are far from an idiot, a self centred man who wants to pursue what he wants, maybe

have you ever stopped to think your wife reacts the way she does because you have brought her to that point of frustration, with your cool reserve and pragmatic approach. i have a feeling that your "giving, beautiful, thin, athletic and passionate" OW will get fed up of the giving and giving passion but soon discover that it is all one way!


----------



## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

crazz2323 said:


> So all these facts really tells me I am not in love anymore and honestly, I don't think I ever was. I feel I would enjoy my wife more as a friend then a wife. I think the switch has flipped and my patience for our issues has met the saturation point. Unless things change over the next few months, I think I know the route I will go. I feel like I am finally getting some focus. Thank you all for your help. I will update you if anything changes.


So get a divorce ASAP and make sure you financially take care of your ex-wife and children. 

Done.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Guys, he is working on what he thinks to be the best solution. I don't think he's giving up on his wife, if he's been unhappy for a length of time yet stuck around. The ladies of TAM know that when a woman is done, she's done. When a man is done, I don't feel it's fair we tell him to get his wife and he into MC... As we know, it takes 100% investment from the two parties for that to be at all successful. He seems done to me, just not confident about how to end it. 

We've got more objective thinking behind our responses. He's in the mess. At least he has been open and hasn't run away like many other posters do. I'm all for the 2x4s because most of us have some different perspectives, but let's not forget at the end of the day it's his life and he will have to live with his choices.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

crazz2323 said:


> So all these facts really tells me I am not in love anymore and honestly, I don't think I ever was. I feel I would enjoy my wife more as a friend then a wife. I think the switch has flipped and my patience for our issues has met the saturation point. Unless things change over the next few months, I think I know the route I will go. I feel like I am finally getting some focus. Thank you all for your help. I will update you if anything changes.


Was there ever any doubt? You didn't come here for advice, only for vindication and lessening of your guilt.

Well, I'll tell you what I tell every OTHER cookie-cutter cheater who comes here for permission to cheat: If your marriage is SO dead, and you are SO justified in leaving your marriage, then do so - WITHOUT YOUR AFFAIR PARTNER.

Try to salvage SOME sense of integrity in this clusterfluck and vow - to yourself, to your wife, and to your family - that you may be leaving, but it won't be BECAUSE OF the OW. Because you are GIVING UP your affair partner. You are setting her free to divorce her husband and start a new life WITHOUT her affair partner so she can retain a shred of dignity.

That is the only way you will be able to look back at this part of your life, on your deathbed, looking at your family around you, and not feel total utter shame at what you did to them out of your selfishness.

What's that you say? There's no point in divorcing if you can't have this woman?

Then you're just a common, everyday selfish cheater.


----------



## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

turnera said:


> What's that you say? There's no point in divorcing if you can't have this woman?
> 
> Then you're just a common, everyday selfish cheater.


This is a little heavy handed and cruel.

The OP is just like everyone else. He wants love, passion and fulfillment in his one and only life. Right now he feels if he stays with his wife then he's missing out on something fantastic. In essence, he feels his current wife his holding him back from him having a better life.

Fair enough.

He owes his current wife financial compensation for these turn of events and needs to let her go so she can find someone else.

He may or may not stay with the OW. Once he's divorced he might think the OW is holding him back. Only time can tell.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am surprised OW would still want him after hearing he is trying to work things out with his wife.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Heatherknows said:


> This is a little heavy handed and cruel.
> 
> The OP is just like everyone else. He wants love, passion and fulfillment in his one and only life. Right now he feels if he stays with his wife then he's missing out on something fantastic. In essence, he feels his current wife his holding him back from him having a better life.
> 
> ...


Only heavy-handed and cruel if you are currently cheating.
From the BS point of view, it is absolutely true.

Love your spouse, or leave. But don't ever try to convince yourself there is honor in lying, cheating and betraying another person.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

crazz2323 said:


> So all these facts really tells me I am not in love anymore and honestly, *I don't think I ever was.* I feel I would enjoy my wife more as a friend then a wife.


Script, script, script. You're all the same.


----------



## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Only heavy-handed and cruel if you are currently cheating.
> From the BS point of view, it is absolutely true.
> 
> Love your spouse, or leave. But don't ever try to convince yourself there is honor in lying, cheating and betraying another person.


Wow - posters are harsh here. 

OP is at a confusing turn in his life and looking for advice, not looking to be called names. He's feeling conflicted between his commitment to his wife and his feelings for someone new. He hasn't physically cheated, however, the fact alone that he is feeling such a strong connection to another woman is an EA. 

OP, it sounds like you've already made up your mind about your marriage being over, you're just trying to figure out a gentle way to rip off that bandage. There is no easy way. Your wife will be hurt, unless she's been feeling the exact same way as you, then she may be relieved. If you know its over, than end it sooner rather than later. Face the music. Stay firm in your decision, don't draw it out for her by going back and forth. 

Also understand that you may end up alone. You have to be content with that thought. Your OW may not end up being a safe place to land.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

SARAHMCD said:


> Wow - posters are harsh here.
> 
> OP is at a confusing turn in his life and looking for advice, not looking to be called names. He's feeling conflicted between his commitment to his wife and his feelings for someone new. He hasn't physically cheated, however, the fact alone that he is feeling such a strong connection to another woman is an EA.
> 
> ...


Listen, I'm as empathetic as the next person, more so, most of the time. But the OP's inner angst was self-created and the sooner he sees that, the faster he can try to learn and avoid the same trap in his next relationship. Lying to himself about his motivations would not help a bit.


----------



## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

jld said:


> I am surprised OW would still want him after hearing he is trying to work things out with his wife.


Perhaps she doesn't know.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Heatherknows said:


> Perhaps she doesn't know.


I thought he told her?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hey, I'm all for him leaving a marriage he's not happy in.

As long as he doesn't leave it for his AFFAIR partner.

If he divorces, never contacts his AP again, and goes on to live a happy, fulfilling life, finding a NEW person AFTER he's divorced, then I'm right there on his side.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

How do you know that she is telling the truth about her husband and the marriage? Relationship problems are usually shared. She is unlikely to be the perfect match you imagine. 

You don't know her, you are together under ideal circumstances in a dreamy fog. There are some things you do know though, she is deceptive, a cheater, and user. She is using her husband until she finds someone to use to get out of her marrige.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

aine said:


> You keep talking about what is missing in your W but you may be surprised that there is things missing in your OW too. As my grandmother used to say "come and live with me, then you'll know me'.
> The OW is probably only showing the best side of her, any woman who would engage in an EA with an OM has already negative brownie points and a major flaw in her character as she seems to have no regard or empathy for your W and maybe one day will do the same to you.


Yes crazz. Aine isn't saying your OW is being fake on purpose but just that we get the best side of people when they're smitten with us and when we're new. It's important to pay attention to how they treat others. She's getting the best side of you too for the same reason. She takes away a lot of fear, anxiety, and uncertainty about starting over so just the thought of her is comforting. 

Here's the problem. The strength you needed in order to take care of business and either fix things or leave your wife is the same strength it takes to see a new love objectively. If you turned a blind eye out of fear with your wife until you had someone else lined up then you're turning a blind eye now as well. If this works out then you have a horse shoe up your butt.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> How do you know that what she is telling the truth about her husband and the marriage? Relationship problems are usually shared. She is unlikely to be the perfect match you think.
> 
> You don't know her, you are together under ideal circumstances in a dreamy fog. There are some things you know, she is deceptive, a cheater, and user. She used her husband until she found someone to use to get out of the marrige.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You must have missed that part where she's already told him about all of her flaws, so quite obviously he's not in a fog.........

LOL


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> You must have missed that part where she's already told him about all of her flaws, so quite obviously he's not in a fog.........
> 
> LOL


Well at least we know she (the ow) is honest too! :grin2:


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Maybe I'm just naive, I don't know...but I see so many threads on TAM about cheating, and you hear of it irl too...I just can't wrap my head around the mindset of a cheater.

I mean, surely, even if your marriage isn't at it's best or you've fallen out of love - or whatever other excuse they come up with, surely in the back of your mind is the fact there is a person in your life whom AT ONE POINT you loved enough to commit yourself to them in every way, for the rest of your life. 

Doesn't it even register that as your spouse, you owe them at the very least, the most basic level of respect as a human being and your spouse, to at least not cheat? If you're that miserable just end the marriage?

What do cheaters tell themselves each time they lie to their spouse, and then skulk off to meet the EA/PA (is one really worse than the other? I doubt it). Surely it rips at you inside if you have even a sliver of conscience??

I'm far from perfect, and I certainly don't mean this to sound as though I am...I just can't wrap my head around this...I really can't.


----------



## Lots to Learn (Aug 21, 2015)

frusdil said:


> Maybe I'm just naive, I don't know...but I see so many threads on TAM about cheating, and you hear of it irl too...I just can't wrap my head around the mindset of a cheater.
> 
> I mean, surely, even if your marriage isn't at it's best or you've fallen out of love - or whatever other excuse they come up with, surely in the back of your mind is the fact there is a person in your life whom AT ONE POINT you loved enough to commit yourself to them in every way, for the rest of your life.
> 
> ...



I've come to understand many things through my own journey, but your point above is one I don't think I will ever understand. In my mind you would have to hate someone in order to do this. How can this be?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

SecondTime'Round said:


> You must have missed that part where she's already told him about all of her flaws, so quite obviously he's not in a fog.........
> 
> LOL


I missed nothing, you did. It's sometimes endearing to be naive and believe everything you hear but sometimes its unwise. I hope you view revelations by lier's with some skepticism IRL. Unlike you, I am a cynic so I don't believe lier's. 

She revealed all to a man she does not know and hopes to keep around for excitement. However, she lies to a man who she knows and, at one time at lest, loved. A man who provides for his family, and fathered her children and she enjoys the support he is offering. 

If she is so unhappy that she sulks around with a married man, she could at lest be as honest with her husband as she is with this deceptive stranger.

EDIT: I'm not the most preceptive person on the planet. STR was being sarcastic and I didn't get it.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> What you and your affair partner are BOTH doing is making sure you have a soft landing before exploding your marriages.


Selfish? Yes. Still, it's practical and beneficial for THEM. Even if they'd divorced first before getting involved with someone else, it would make no practical difference to the ex - they'd still be history.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> I missed nothing, you did. It's sometimes endearing to be naive and believe everything you hear but sometimes its unwise. I hope you view revelations by lier's with some skepticism IRL. Unlike you, I am a cynic so I don't believe lier's.
> 
> She revealed all to a man she does not know and hopes to keep around for excitement. However, she lies to a man who she knows and, at one time at lest, loved. A man who provides for his family, and fathered her children and she enjoys the support he is offering.
> 
> If she is so unhappy that she sulks around with a married man, she could at lest be as honest with her husband as she is with this deceptive stranger.


I was being sarcastic, @Catherine602 .


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I was being sarcastic, @Catherine602 .


:rofl: Sorry I mistook you but I'm gullible.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> :rofl: Sorry I mistook you but I'm gullible.


Lol! 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

crazz2323, be prepared for some bad times ahead.

Upset spouses, crying children. Maybe you'll have a gun pointed at you? That tends to make you concentrate. *Really* concentrate!

Some people will cut you dead, others will look at you like they never knew you.

Be prepared for tough times no matter what you decide to do.

Oh, yeah. If you really are going to do the dirty on your clueless spouses, do try to keep your financial demands to a minimum.

After all, you are gutting their heart, no sense in gutting their bank account, too.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Selfish? Yes. Still, it's practical and beneficial for THEM. Even if they'd divorced first before getting involved with someone else, it would make no practical difference to the ex - they'd still be history.


Respectfully ending an unsuccessful marriage before getting involved with someone else is one thing. Sure, it hurts the ex, but it's recoverable.

Selfishly keeping the unsuccessful marriage overlapping with the new relationship by deceiving the spouse as long as possible so that there's a smooth transition for you and you alone is a completely different beast. It causes much more psychological harm to the ex.

Believe me, it makes a HUGE difference to the ex in how to recover from the end of the marriage.


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I know of what Hopeful Cynic speaks.

Last October (2014), my then-husband gave me the ILYBINILWY speech and said he'd been unhappy for a long time, thought we should separate ("no need to rush into a divorce," he said), there was no chance for working it out, he'd made up his mind, didn't want to go to counseling, etc., etc. Swore there was no one else. Acted indignant, in fact, that I would think such a thing.

That hurt tremendously. But I was willing to accept it and let him go, and I started working on moving on, myself.

By January, he revealed he'd been talking with a lawyer behind my back and they'd already worked up a draft settlement. Still swore there was no one else. I still was hurting, but I was on the way to healing.

February 20, 2015. D-Day. And not because he told me or wanted me to know. I found out. He admitted to it (gradually, by trickling the truth over several days).

I was devastated. I could barely breathe. Couldn't sleep. Couldn't eat. Cried so hard every day, I thought the violence of the crying itself might kill me.

Still struggling to get past this even now, when the divorce was final in July and he moved her in with him in September.

Had he been telling the truth early on and there hadn't been an OW, even if he met this one or another one he wanted to be with after we divorced, it would not be nearly as difficult as dealing with the fact that he lied to me, the person he vowed before God and all our family and friends to love, honor, and protect from harm, FORSAKING ALL OTHERS, until death do us part.

Only one of us took those vows seriously.

I'll never marry again, because marriage didn't turn out to be what I believed with all my heart it was. I may never trust again, let alone love again.

Believe us all when we tell you, crazz, that you will do irrevocable damage to your wife and family if you continue to cheat, and if you leave her and your kids for this other woman. You say your only hesitation is not wanting to hurt her.

THEN STOP HURTING HER. End it with the OW. You're wrong, no matter how you slice it. If you can't work things out with your wife, then TRULY leave her honorably. Otherwise, you'll never forgive yourself for the damage you will do. She certainly never will. And you need to consider that your children might not, either.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Nomorebeans said:


> I know of what Hopeful Cynic speaks.
> 
> Last October (2014), my then-husband gave me the ILYBINILWY speech and said he'd been unhappy for a long time, thought we should separate ("no need to rush into a divorce," he said), there was no chance for working it out, he'd made up his mind, didn't want to go to counseling, etc., etc. Swore there was no one else. Acted indignant, in fact, that I would think such a thing.
> 
> ...


You will never marry again. Whilst that is true, a new you may well marry again.

When the first long term love of my life left me for another woman, I was sure I'd never date again.

And it's true, that me never dated again. But the new me? Well, dating happened and I eventually met the woman who became my wife.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

NoMoreBeans, MattMatt speaks the truth. The old you is gone, replaced by a new you. Do not give up on your life because of the actions of anybody else. You deserve to be happy. You owe it to yourself.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Heatherknows said:


> This is a little heavy handed and cruel.
> 
> The OP is just like everyone else. He wants love, passion and fulfillment in his one and only life. Right now he feels if he stays with his wife then he's missing out on something fantastic. In essence, he feels his current wife his holding him back from him having a better life.
> 
> ...


It is far from heavy-handed! He owes his wife HONESTY full stop. He doesn't appear to have that amount of integrity though, he is kidding himself and trying to get some sort of vindication from the posters on TAM. But heck, what would we know, they are in love! As has been said over and over

1. deal with wife first, talk to her, say how it is, divorce her

2. move on then with OW (blowing up her marriage and family is also an issue but heck they are in love, so collateral damage so be it!)

3. But be a bloody man and do the right thing instead of *****footing around and using wifey as Plan B, that is the MO of a coward plain and simple.


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Selfish? Yes. Still, it's practical and beneficial for THEM. Even if they'd divorced first before getting involved with someone else, it would make no practical difference to the ex - they'd still be history.



I disagree with this. There's something called morals,ethics and vows that get in the way. 

Many people can deal with an ex finding someone new after they are an ex much easier than getting cheated on, either during or after the fact


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

aine said:


> It is far from heavy-handed! He owes his wife HONESTY full stop. He doesn't appear to have that amount of integrity though, he is kidding himself and trying to get some sort of vindication from the posters on TAM. But heck, what would we know, they are in love! As has been said over and over
> 
> 1. deal with wife first, talk to her, say how it is, divorce her
> 
> ...


I agree Aine but will elaborate on point 2. Blowing up a second amrriage makes this whole concept two times worse. It's bad enough to be an immoral individual as it is but now you wrap up some other guy into the betrayed group and that is every bit as evil. I am elaborating, not because you don't agree with me, but just to add my own spin to it


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Heatherknows said:


> This is a little heavy handed and cruel.
> 
> The OP is just like everyone else. He wants love, passion and fulfillment in his one and only life. Right now he feels if he stays with his wife then he's missing out on something fantastic. In essence, he feels his current wife his holding him back from him having a better life.
> 
> ...


No it's not cruel. I agree with Turnera 100%


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

frusdil said:


> Maybe I'm just naive, I don't know...but I see so many threads on TAM about cheating, and you hear of it irl too...I just can't wrap my head around the mindset of a cheater.
> 
> I mean, surely, even if your marriage isn't at it's best or you've fallen out of love - or whatever other excuse they come up with, surely in the back of your mind is the fact there is a person in your life whom AT ONE POINT you loved enough to commit yourself to them in every way, for the rest of your life.
> 
> ...




I agree completely. Very well put


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

wmn1 said:


> I agree Aine but will elaborate on point 2. Blowing up a second amrriage makes this whole concept two times worse. It's bad enough to be an immoral individual as it is but now you wrap up some other guy into the betrayed group and that is every bit as evil. I am elaborating, not because you don't agree with me, but just to add my own spin to it


He's already rationalized this by believing that she's going to leave her marriage either way because it's a horrible marriage. So she says. And so he believes.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

wmn1 said:


> I disagree with this. There's something called morals,ethics and vows that get in the way.
> 
> Many people can deal with an ex finding someone new after they are an ex much easier than getting cheated on, either during or after the fact


You are right, of course - I wasn't disputing or saying anything to the contrary. Still, for the cheater, it IS pragmatic, whether or not it causes additional harm to the left/betrayed spouse, and even if their pragmatism is unethical.

I divorced my ex cleanly, as ethics matter to me. She had an EA some time earlier, and it would not have bothered me in the slightest if I'd retaliated for that by bridging to a new relationship - she'd have deserved it. And I don't think I deserved her neglect and contempt for many years while I was trying to make the relationship work. However, while no longer caring about her feelings, _I cared about how I would feel about myself_, and so I took the moral path in leaving her.


----------



## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Zombie thread


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Tilted 1 said:


> Zombie thread


And SPAM


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Thread closed


----------

