# He has sexual chat with other women



## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

I hope I'm allowed to post here...I'm a woman after all...but I am seeking thoughts from men because I want to understand my man a bit better.

My guy posts erotic ads and has erotic chats with other women. I confronted him about it 2 months ago, he denied it and claimed his account was hacked. Without him knowing I have kept tabs and have come to my own conclusions which have left me NOT upset/hurt but more confused than anything.

It seems to me that he is posting these with absolutely no intention of following through. It's like the 2010's version of a peep show or something -- just for stimulation. I know it could be a self confidence thing, or it could be a way of distances himself a bit from us when he feels too deep with us, or it could even be simply a masturbation tool. I don't know the exact reason but I am convinced it has nothing at all to do with wanting to cheat. I'm not going to go into detail and share his secrets but I am certain he has no plans to cheat and in fact he seems to have been posting ads like these for a couple years at least before meeting me.

What I am confused about is why he would not tell me? Especially after I brought it up more than once, giving him a chance to correct his original lie -- telling him that if it is I wouldn't care, etc. We are very open with each other and I have never been judgemental with him. I would like to hear from men who have done something similar. 

It is my issue, I know, that I have this burning desire to understand but I just can't shake it. If you can add anything to help me understand more why he would lie when I ask him directly, I would really appreciate it. I accept him for him, I trust that he is not cheating nor wants to, sometimes when I know he does this it does make me question if I am enough for him but then I tell myself that I can't be his everything and even I love reading r-rated dime novels...but I can't just forget about it because I am one of those that needs to understand.

I'm sure also there will be some people that just think what he is doing is wrong, no matter the reasons. I am not one of those people, I don't think it's wrong, I think it is his way of coping with something I don't quite understand, so if you are one of those people, you don't need to waste your breath by replying here.

I have read tons and tons of letters, columns, etc about guys cheating and how they hide it. I know for a fact that some people (men and women) do this kind of behaviour for reasons other than cheating or wanting to leave a partner or trying to replace a partner. I talked at length with a good male friend who did this exact thing with his ex-gf of 5 years. But he is only one person and I really want to hear from other people who have also. I don't believe everyone is inherently bad...just because they are talking sexually does not mean they are wanting/planning to cheat.


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## turkish (Jun 24, 2012)

Do you feel you are satisfying his sexual needs? That is my first thought, that maybe he isn't having his needs met and he finds this as his way of mentally stimulating his needs. Another thought would be maybe it's some form of fetish. We males are sexual animals and often have some weird and wonderful things that get us going, maybe this is his and he finds it too much to tell you.

I don't think anyone here will be able to tell you exactly what is giving your man the urge to do this. I think you may well have to sit him down, explain that you know he is doing it, that you are not going to freak out, but you just want to understand why because it is effecting you do long as you don't understand why.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm curious as to why you think he is only posting ads but never following through. 

Have you put a keylogger on the computer so that you can see everything he's doing on line?


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

turkish, I know people can't tell me exactly why he is but replies like yours are helpful because it's hard for me to relate and so I want to know how others think to give me some ideas of what may be behind this for him.

I'm pretty sure I'm satisfying him sexually. We are very sexually active and I have introduced quite a bit of kink into the bedroom since this first happened and I realized he had more kink in him than he was letting on.

I don't think he is unsatisfied...


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Some people do get a bit of a thrill of the chase, to have a woman seek them out. A close gf.. her husband was on dating sites for years. He claims he never met anyone, but he got some sort of ego boost from having women try to pick him up. It was more often when he was struggling with work or life.. it was his way of "coping" and getting a shot to his confidence. It made him feel like he was wanted. 

Not sure if that was a healthy way to do it, but the point is he must be getting something out of it if he is doing it. Maybe the ego boost?


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I'm curious as to why you think he is only posting ads but never following through.
> 
> Have you put a keylogger on the computer so that you can see everything he's doing on line?


He is very rarely not with me or at work and his work is in a manufacturing setting so unless he is sneaking off with a coworker (who are all men) I can't see it happening. Logistically speaking it would be very very very difficult, and probably too much effort for him since he knows I am okay with us doing all kinds of stuff (even a 3some if he wants)...with much less effort.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

He is lying to you because he knows he's doing something wrong that you disapprove of.

He continues to lie to you because he lied in the first place and to tel the truth now would be admitting to the original lie.

How do you know he isn't following through with any of these 'meetings'?


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

deejov said:


> Some people do get a bit of a thrill of the chase, to have a woman seek them out. A close gf.. her husband was on dating sites for years. He claims he never met anyone, but he got some sort of ego boost from having women try to pick him up. It was more often when he was struggling with work or life.. it was his way of "coping" and getting a shot to his confidence. It made him feel like he was wanted.
> 
> Not sure if that was a healthy way to do it, but the point is he must be getting something out of it if he is doing it. Maybe the ego boost?


This is exactly the situation I see happening...though I'm open to ideas that it is purely fantasy and not ego / confidence / etc. But from what I have observed since we've been together the ads seem to get posted when things are tough in his life or when we have some kind of disagreement or maybe I get hormonal on my period and get all clingy (lol).

I have also considered that not telling me could be because a) embarrassed or b) it wouldn't be fun any more. 

How was your gf and her husband overall? I feel like nothing is missing from our relationship and if I didn't know about this everything would be perfect.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

mountains said:


> He is very rarely not with me or at work and his work is in a manufacturing setting so unless he is sneaking off with a coworker (who are all men) I can't see it happening. Logistically speaking it would be very very very difficult, and probably too much effort for him since he knows I am okay with us doing all kinds of stuff (even a 3some if he wants)...with much less effort.


Are you aware of all his internet activity? My husband was also rarely not with me except for work, but he managed (see link to my story in my sig). He started out by just surfing porn and escalated from there. It is very possible to have a full blown sexual affair on line.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> He is lying to you because he knows he's doing something wrong that you disapprove of.
> 
> He continues to lie to you because he lied in the first place and to tel the truth now would be admitting to the original lie.
> 
> How do you know he isn't following through with any of these 'meetings'?


I agree with you but I wish he didn't feel he had to.  I would be totally okay if he would just tell me.

It would be logistically very difficult for him to follow through. Also I have kept tabs on the messages and nothing seems to indicate a meeting. After a couple messages it's more like them replying "hey, you still want to do this?"


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Well, the husband of my gf has some confidence issues, and she feels it is not a healthy way for him to feel like a "man", mainly because in her case it is opening the door to other options. Like sooner or later just chatting won't be enough, and he will progress to meeting someone. He needs to learn to like himself. He's trying. But still lying about being on websites.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Are you aware of all his internet activity? My husband was also rarely not with me except for work, but he managed (see link to my story in my sig). He started out by just surfing porn and escalated from there. It is very possible to have a full blown sexual affair on line.


To be honest I don't care much if he has a sexual affair if it is online. I've even told him I don't care if he sex chats as long as it isn't a replacement for me. But he still won't admit to it...I realize he may not believe I am being sincere and thinks I will get mad anyway.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

He could be taking things to another email address that you don't know about, or doing it via cell phone.

I really hope he isn't, but the fact he feels the need to act out sexually when he's upset sounds similar to my husband, and that was a red flag for sexual addiction with him.

I also agree about him escalating sooner or later. It's a very real possibility.

If you have evidence, confront and do not let him rugsweep, then go from there. He is basically cheating on you.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

He's hiding it and not going along with you saying it's okay because it crosses HIS personal boundary. He doesn't feel right about it. You have differing views on this being acceptable.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

mountains said:


> To be honest I don't care much if he has a sexual affair if it is online. I've even told him I don't care if he sex chats as long as it isn't a replacement for me. But he still won't admit to it...I realize he may not believe I am being sincere and thinks I will get mad anyway.


  You don't care? Ok then, I take it back.

Why do you not care if he cheats on you


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mountains said:


> He is very rarely not with me or at work and his work is in a manufacturing setting so unless he is sneaking off with a coworker (who are all men) I can't see it happening. Logistically speaking it would be very very very difficult, and probably too much effort for him since he knows I am okay with us doing all kinds of stuff (even a 3some if he wants)...with much less effort.


Well we do have women who come here and post that they have found out that their husbands are meeting up with men on their lunch breaks or on the way home from work for a quick bj or something like that (not to make you paranoid or anything).

The guy thing aside, he could be doing the same thing with meeting women from those ads on his luch break and or on the way to/from work. There are plenty of women who post or reply to those ads who only want quick hook-ups, no relationship.

My husband was meeting women on line and having sexting sessions with them. He had ads out as well. He had secret email accounts for communicating to them. The only way I found these things were with a keylogger.

there is usualy fire where there is smoke.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> My husband was meeting women on line and having sexting sessions with them. He had ads out as well. He had secret email accounts for communicating to them. The only way I found these things were with a keylogger.


Apparently she doesn't care if he does these things.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

To be blunt, as open minded as you are, the harshness is maybe he is wanting to do some things, but not with you. He's looking for someone else.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

deejov said:


> Well, the husband of my gf has some confidence issues, and she feels it is not a healthy way for him to feel like a "man", mainly because in her case it is opening the door to other options. Like sooner or later just chatting won't be enough, and he will progress to meeting someone. He needs to learn to like himself. He's trying. But still lying about being on websites.


If this was just porn magazines, he would not lie because they are more socially accepted. I feel like this type of sexual stimulation and validation is still new but that in a decade or so we will consider this kind of common (especially in the younger generations where they are growing up chatting). I want to just forget about it and let him do whatever it is he needs to do but I can't shake it  Part of me feels like it is because I'm not good enough but I have seen that these ads were posted for a couple years before meeting me so it's obviously nothing to do with me.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The day it becomes socially acceptable to cheat on your spouse is the day I want out of society. Frankly, it's attitudes like yours that MAKE it socially acceptable.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mountains said:


> To be honest I don't care much if he has a sexual affair if it is online. I've even told him I don't care if he sex chats as long as it isn't a replacement for me. But he still won't admit to it...I realize he may not believe I am being sincere and thinks I will get mad anyway.


People often think that because it's online it's impersonal and not real. This is not true. 

Very often these unline affairs turn into real life affairs. I've seen cases of people leaving their spouse and children for someone they met online. This is someone that they never met in person. But the emotional attachment gets so strong that they leave their life for that person.

Much more common, especially if the online person is local, are quicky meetups to take the online affair into real life and to up the anty on the excitement.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

EleGirl, I do indeed know this is all possible and have seen it happen with someone (not my relationship). 

I have looked at further messages and I am confident that nothing has come of it. I have not used a keylogger but I am a computer person and he is not and I hacked all his accounts so... 

-----

Anyway, back on topic: I don't want to spend this thread defending or trying to give reasons why he is not cheating. Sure maybe he is, that's not why I posted. I posted because I talked with a male friend about this and he had done the same thing (with no intention of cheating and did not cheat). I got his perspective about why he was doing it and am interested in hearing others. I know this is not as uncommon as it sounds. I think people are just too embarrassed to admit it.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

deejov said:


> He's hiding it and not going along with you saying it's okay because it crosses HIS personal boundary. He doesn't feel right about it. You have differing views on this being acceptable.


This is a good comment. Right. It doesn't matter what I say if he thinks it is wrong, then it is wrong and worthy of being hidden. 

This is just hard for me because I'm a no secret kind of person. Like, from anyone. I'm totally open and honest always.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Well, you're probably one of the only people here who will define what he's doing as not cheating. Whatever. He most likely DOES define it as cheating, and is doing it because he's a cheater. Call it titillation, whatever, but if he's sex chatting with other women, you can bet that he wants to do it in person, he just hasn't got the guts yet.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> The day it becomes socially acceptable to cheat on your spouse is the day I want out of society. Frankly, it's attitudes like yours that MAKE it socially acceptable.


I totally respect your opinion but as per my original post I'm not looking for replies like this...there is already quite a bit of literature and forum posts out there I could read with this line of thinking. I personally don't believe it is wrong. What I believe is wrong is hiding it, now it becomes a secret and it is wrong.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> People often think that because it's online it's impersonal and not real. This is not true.
> 
> Very often these unline affairs turn into real life affairs. I've seen cases of people leaving their spouse and children for someone they met online. This is someone that they never met in person. But the emotional attachment gets so strong that they leave their life for that person.
> 
> Much more common, especially if the online person is local, are quicky meetups to take the online affair into real life and to up the anty on the excitement.


Ahhh yes, I guess that is definitely a situation where things can get bad. With him though it is multiple people, almost all strangers. He exchanges a few emails and then one or the other stops messaging. Then there is another post months later and a new slew of messages from different people. This is not a relationship that he is building with someone. That would definitely be a cause for concern for me.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I've done this... put an ad on a website looking for a date. Nothing sexual, just a no pic 2 paragraph bs one.
Not while I was married, though. When I was dating someone, and knew it was over, and I didn't want much to do with him. I broke up with him shortly afterwards.

I even stated "attached" in my profile. 
I got a zillion emails. From married men looking to hook up. Long drawn out emails, pages long. My wife doesn't understand me. I just need someone to fulfill my fantasies.

And I will admit I left that ad up for a good month. I was sooo amazed by all the emails I got. And almost all of them asked the same question -- have you met anyone on here? They all claimed NO they hadn't. Most of them were too scared to make the next move, but were looking for someone who would "understand" what they were going thru and had experience with "how" to do this sort of thing.

Meh, I went to confession. I'm good with myself for what I did. 

What if you went online and had an affair with him? Fastest way to find out if he's willing to meet!


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

deejov said:


> What if you went online and had an affair with him? Fastest way to find out if he's willing to meet!


hahaha yes but then again he would probably be able to tell it was me. I could get someone else to maybe but honestly I don't believe that he is wanting to meet...I don't feel any need to try to prove this. Which shows me that I do actually believe he is faithful


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

btw are there any MEN reading this forum? lol


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

To you he's faithful, but he's missing something in your relationship and he's not talking to you about it. Which means he cannot be completely happy. 

So what's he getting out of it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mountains said:


> If this was just porn magazines, he would not lie because they are more socially accepted. I feel like this type of sexual stimulation and validation is still new but that in a decade or so we will consider this kind of common (especially in the younger generations where they are growing up chatting).


Online sexting/affairs have been going on for 15 years or more. You might think that they are something new. But they are not. You just do not understand the damage they can do to a marriage. The social ramifications of online relationships have been known for some time now. They are mentioned in something like 25% of all divorces these days.

I disagree about the younger generation. My children are D23, S23, S25. I have discussed with very topic with them and their friends. They have all engaged in some kind of online relationship, meeting people online, sexting, etc. So they understand it all too well. Their response to my questions about how they would react if they found their spouse/bf/gf was sexting or carrying on an online relationship was that the relationship was over. They would seek a divorce.

I do understand because I've been dealing with it for over 15 years. I have lost my husband largely because in the beginning I thought the way you do... I thought it was just a kind of interactive porn. That is until I found the secret emails and online accounts and found that that he had 10 women he was doing this with and some of them were willing to meet up with him and have quick encounters.

I also found out that he was so busy sending them things like e-cards and even real cards for Valentine’s Day that he forgot that he had a wife that would have loved something for Valentine’s Day.

How would you feel if your husband spent time every week going to a place where a lot of people mingle socially and he went around picking up on women, flirted with them and did a bit of sexual stuff with the women? Would you be ok? Now what is the difference between this and what he's doing online?



mountains said:


> I want to just forget about it and let him do whatever it is he needs to do but I can't shake it  Part of me feels like it is because I'm not good enough but I have seen that these ads were posted for a couple years before meeting me so it's obviously nothing to do with me.


You are starting to feel the damage that this sort of thing does. The fact is that you are not all he needs. Even as open minded as you are he wants something that does not include you. At the least they are him expressing this desire to have relationships and/or sexual encounters that exclude you.

What he is doing is already hurting you. And you have yet to find out if this is all he is doing. Until you put the key logger on the computer all you know is what you have seen. It could be the tip of the iceberg.

You are trying way to hard to be 'open minded'. Unless of course you are ok with an open marriage and your husband having sexual and emotional relationships with other women.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

deejov said:


> To you he's faithful, but he's missing something in your relationship and he's not talking to you about it. Which means he cannot be completely happy.
> 
> So what's he getting out of it?


This is what I am hoping to figure out with this post, so thanks for dialoging with me. 

I don't think it's sexual at all. So to move past that...

He has some things going on in his life since before I met him. I have watched his happiness increase over time quite substantially but there are still some things that are being worked through. I want to make everything better, but I can't, not just at the drop of a hat. Things take time. 

I want to know what it is he is getting from this so that I can work over time at helping him find it through other avenues. Whatever it is he will not admit it to me...either because he feels the actual act of these messages is wrong, or because he is not ready to talk to me about whatever emotional void is being filled or massaged by these interactions. 

I'm really hoping a few men reply to give me a bit of insight into this, to share their personal experiences so I can relate what is appropriate to him. He's had a really rough few years on various fronts and I just want to be the support that he needs.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mountains said:


> btw are there any MEN reading this forum? lol


You will find that almost 100% of the men on here will agree with what we women are saying.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

mountains said:


> I don't think it's sexual at all. So to move past that...


So why did you call your post "He has sexual chat with other women??"

Seriously. We ARE answering your question, you just don't want to hear it.

I REALLY hope you read all of Elegirls long post above because it is BANG on.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> So why did you call your post "He has sexual chat with other women??"
> 
> Seriously. We ARE answering your question, you just don't want to hear it.


No...you don't understand what I meant. People can do things that are sexual but have the motivations NOT be sexual. That's what I mean. I don't think the motivation is sexual, it's just the most effective delivery method so to speak.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you want to know if he thinks he is cheating on you... you go and do the same thing he's doing (or at least make it look like you are) and then after a while let him know you are doing it. Watch his reaction.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Okay, then would you say that "how" he is dealing with his issues (whatever they are) is not appropriate? That there might be a better way for him to deal with it? He's acting out, so to say.

You do say you want to help him with it, and help him find other avenues. 

You are right, there is only so much you can do. I would honestly say that maybe he wants you to get mad about this. 

Tell him it's unacceptable, and he needs to get help. But realise that he still might not turn to YOU for that help. Tell him he should seek counselling. It's unacceptable to you because he's not dealing with the "issue" that is driving him to do this. 

I have a feeling if you told him you didn't like it, he might say something.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

mountains said:


> No...you don't understand what I meant. People can do things that are sexual but have the motivations NOT be sexual. That's what I mean. I don't think the motivation is sexual, it's just the most effective delivery method so to speak.


Seriously?? Wow.

Did you read Elegirls post??

Anyway, what YOU think doesn't matter - it's what HE thinks. HE thinks he's cheating on you (He IS cheating on you, even though you won't admit that to yourself, but whatever). Maybe once you realize that, the answers will come.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

Elegirl,

Without giving really specific details about him I can say that the situation we are in is a bit different. I am not discounting that eventually it could lead to something like that...definitely it could. But right now it is happening for some reason...low confidence, maybe, I don't know. And it is not specifically with one person, it's all over the map, he is not developing a relationship with anyone. He also has not waned in his devotion to me. Nothing has changed.

I am not discounting what you are saying though...you're right, I am feeling the beginnings of this damage. 

But right now I am looking for ways to resolve this, not for more lists of signs he is cheating or more doomsday predictions of what it means for us. Right now I am looking for some ideas of what could be causing this because I understand him quite well and I have helped him through a lot and I feel like if I can understand at least partly what is going on here, I have a shot at helping him. 

If this didn't stop eventually, and he continued to deny it, that is a real problem and maybe the relationship wouldn't last. We're not there right now. Right now we are somewhere that I can be an understanding, caring partner with knowledge of the bad stuff in his life that he is overcoming and I can be loving and supportive and slowly work through this as I have been as he works through other stuff.

The issue right now isn't whether his actions are right or wrong, the issue is: what could be causing this and where can we go from here. Blanket statements that it is because he wants to cheat are false, he was doing this before he met me when he had no one to cheat on. Perhaps it could lead to cheating later, but that's not the direct motivation and it's not where he is (yet?).

I can feel your anger and hurt and I really do thank you for sharing these warnings with me. I'm ready to move past my worst-case-scenario thinking (which I have been doing for the last 2 months) and instead move onto something more productive. To see if this is something that we can work on. If not, we may need to talk about the relationship ending but I've got a lot of energy left in me to work on it 

And yes, I repeat, I do not think the motivations for this are sexual even if yes, one day, they could become that way. Right now this is giving him something different and I want to understand what it could be.

My male friend who I talked with about this told me that when he was with his ex (for 5 years) that he had very bad self confidence. He was scared he wasn't good enough for her and asking her over and over just made the insecurity worse. He would post ads on CL and talk with and flirt with strangers that way. Talking about hooking up, trading photos, etc. It boosted his self confidence, made him feel worthy. He said that he did it when he was feeling extremely insecure in his abilities in the relationship. He hid it from her because he felt it was wrong. This is just one example of a guy doing this type of thing with no intention of cheating, with it not being a sexual thing. But I'm sure there are reasons other than insecurity in the relationship and I'm interested in hearing them


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

deejov, ahh yes I believe it is an inappropriate or at least ineffective way to deal with it. 100% I brought it up twice...that first time and then again. He got very angry that I would't trust him, etc etc. It was obvious a gut reaction to "getting caught" but he completely denied it and continues to. I'm not going to bring it up again for a long time. I don't think he wants me to know or wants me to get mad about it. I think it's a private thing (he's a very private person) and that he is trying to work on it himself -- I think that is why he reacted so strongly.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

One thing that he might be getting out of it is that on-line a person can be whoever they want to be. The online relationships are also free of pressures and obligations. These things are very attractive to many people.

I saw the web of untruths, or more accurately, half-truths, that my husband told the women he met on line. Like your husband it was several women and all strangers. It’s so easy to be who you want to be with a stranger. I only wish that he had been the man with me that he told all those women he was.

This might be a sign of several things in your husband.
He might be AD/HD. This is very common with men with that affliction. (My husband is).

He might have a problem with the pressures/responsibilities of a real life relationship. So this is an out for him to have some relationships that require very little from him.

He might have a self-esteem problem. So he can go online and be who he wants to be, not who he seems himself as being. It’s very easy to get a lot of stroking from online relationships. So now he can be the Don Juan, or knight in shining armor or whatever his image of the perfect him is.

Or he just might want sex with more people that do not include you.
If you are able to read his emails with the women, you might see a trend between all of them.

For example my husband was the knight in shining armor. He found women who had a hard time in their life and spent a lot of time talking to them, giving them support emotionally. This is something none of them got from their real life relationships. And in turn the women gushed all over him about what a wonderful man he was, yada yada yada. He would tell these women that their husbands were mistreating them by not helping out at home, by ignoring their pleas for an emotional connection, etc etc… all the while he was doing worse at home then their husbands where. But he could talk a good line and be the good guy in his own mind without putting out any real effort.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

Elegirl, thanks for all this insight. I have seen conversations and they are sexual fantasies only. No personal talk at all. There have been themes on the talks but when we talk about sexual fantasies (our own) I have a few times brought up ones that are similar and he really honestly doesn't seem interested -- I mean we're naked and he gets hard with some talk and not others. I'm not going to detail the fantasies but they definitely lean towards validation / self confidence type stuff where he is desired. 

I'm also curious if you could expand on the ADHD thing. He has Generalized Anxiety.


Anyway, I guess what I really want to know most of all is if guys that do this still love their partners. I mean, like if there is a reason outside of me not being good enough, that he could be doing this. A reason outside of me completely. I have insecurity sometimes and I work really really hard on it because it's always been an issue in all relationships for me (including friendships and coworkers) so this is really hard for me. Since it is so personal I have only talked to that one friend about it so I don't have my usual network of male friends to go to this time around. -- which is why I was looking for replies from guys. I've got a pretty strong group of friends and I'm not used to talking to ONLY one of them about something.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mountains,

You are absolutely right that sex is most likely not the motivation with your husband. It’s something else, something within himself that he is having issues with. Most affairs are not about sex. They are about a person looking for something that they are not getting within their marriage or to deal with personal issues. The affairs, online or offline, are usually a misplaced attempt to seek out a ‘cure’ for the issues.

It is a reasonable approach to look for what is driving him and try to help him resolve that or find a healthier outlet for his emotional needs. It’s one of the many approaches I took with my husband (I’m calling him my husband but we are divorced. However he’s still living in my house. He will not leave and I have not gotten mean yet to kick him out.)

After years of pursuing this with my husband I know so much more about him and what makes him tick. I even took him to doctors, counselors and psychiatrists. He got on meds, off meds, etc. etc. Nothing has fixed the issue. He still has his online sex life. He eventually abandoned our real-life sex life for the online one. I am as open about sex as you are. I’m very HD so there was no shortage of good hot sex in our life. But the sex life ended by his choice. The more I tried to help him find what was wrong.. I think the more our relationship became mother and 15 year old naughty teen. And that is where we are stuck. I divorced him because he’s no longer being a husband to me.

If you are going to take the approach to help him be careful how you do this. In retrospect it would have been better for me, and defiantly better for his mental health, if I had drawn a hard line and told him to stop the online nonsense and go get help with his mental health issues on his own. If I failed, that is where I failed… in being too ‘understanding’ and trying too hard to help him. I believe that’s called enabling and being co-dependent.



mountains said:


> But right now I am looking for ways to resolve this, not for more lists of signs he is cheating or more doomsday predictions of what it means for us. Right now I am looking for some ideas of what could be causing this because I understand him quite well and I have helped him through a lot and I feel like if I can understand at least partly what is going on here, I have a shot at helping him.


The point about my encouraging you to look for more things that might be going on is that you cannot solve a problem if you do not know the full extent of that problem. If you spend your energy on “y” and it never quite gets solved, it might be because the problem is “xy”. But since you did not know about “x” you will never get to the bottom of things.


mountains said:


> If this didn't stop eventually, and he continued to deny it, that is a real problem and maybe the relationship wouldn't last. We're not there right now. Right now we are somewhere that I can be an understanding, caring partner with knowledge of the bad stuff in his life that he is overcoming and I can be loving and supportive and slowly work through this as I have been as he works through other stuff.


This is reasonable. And it’s a very different message than the one you originally gave which was that you do not care if he has online relationships/sexting. You do care but you want to understand and see if there is as way to help him get beyond this.



mountains said:


> The issue right now isn't whether his actions are right or wrong, the issue is: what could be causing this and where can we go from here. Blanket statements that it is because he wants to cheat are false, he was doing this before he met me when he had no one to cheat on. Perhaps it could lead to cheating later, but that's not the direct motivation and it's not where he is (yet?).


His doing it now is very different from him doing it before you met him. I understand your desire to look for the root cause and to try to work with him to solve it. But he is working very hard to hide a part of himself from you. And it involves sex with other people. Hence he is making a choice to cheat on you and lie to you on some level. It’s a conscious choice. This is something that you have got to understand to put things in perspective.

One thing to remember is that behavioral therapy/counseling is the most affective form of therapy. Psychiatric therapy has largely failed…to spend ones time mulling over root causes usually does not fix anything… it just makes the person constantly wallow in the root cause. With a behavioral approach a person decides what the end result is that they want and they start behaving in that manner. After about 3 weeks of consistent behavioral changes the root causes usually no longer matter. And any root causes that do matter will come to the surface in a way that they can be handled.

I have read as advice for overweight people… “If you want to find out what is eating you, stop eating”. In other words a person who eats to calm their emotions will have to face their daemons if they stop over eating.

If you want to see what is bugging your husband, get him to stop doing what he’s doing. His actions are a release valve for your marriage. Like the steam vent on a crock pot.


mountains said:


> I can feel your anger and hurt and I really do thank you for sharing these warnings with me. I'm ready to move past my worst-case-scenario thinking (which I have been doing for the last 2 months) and instead move onto something more productive. To see if this is something that we can work on. If not, we may need to talk about the relationship ending but I've got a lot of energy left in me to work on it


I am trying to be more than a doomsday profit here. My first posts were in response to yours that made it seem like you did not get the depth of damage this can do to your marriage. But now as you write more it’s clear that you do get it. I hope you can get to the bottom of this and he settles his own issues. Your marriage will be much stronger if you do because the two of you will have a much deeper understanding of each other.



mountains said:


> And yes, I repeat, I do not think the motivations for this are sexual even if yes, one day, they could become that way. Right now this is giving him something different and I want to understand what it could be.


Again, sex is seldom the motivation. Like you I’m very computer savvy so I was able to get most of my husband’s past emails, chats, etc. going back a long time. I saw how his relationships evolved. In every one of them they started out as him being the supportive shoulder to these women. He used to have as many as 5 chat windows open at a time carrying on 5 chats simultaneously (did I mention his ADD, lol). In every single case it was the woman who started the sexual relationship. And in every case he pretended to be reluctant and shy about it. He does not have a shy bone in his body so I know he was pretending.


mountains said:


> My male friend who I talked with about this told me that when he was with his ex (for 5 years) that he had very bad self confidence. He was scared he wasn't good enough for her and asking her over and over just made the insecurity worse. He would post ads on CL and talk with and flirt with strangers that way. Talking about hooking up, trading photos, etc. It boosted his self confidence, made him feel worthy. He said that he did it when he was feeling extremely insecure in his abilities in the relationship. He hid it from her because he felt it was wrong. This is just one example of a guy doing this type of thing with no intention of cheating, with it not being a sexual thing. But I'm sure there are reasons other than insecurity in the relationship and I'm interested in hearing them


Yep, it’s seldom about getting off sexually. Infidelity is about a person going outside of the marriage to get their needs met. Your friend did that. He could have chosen to go to counseling. 

He could have chosen to let his wife know what he needed and in the best of all possible worlds she would have bent over backwards to meet them. But this is not the best of all possible worlds. And often one’s spouse does not bend over backwards to meet our needs… instead as we seen in these forums, many spouses are either incapable or refuse to meet the other’s needs. 

Then there are spouses who never share their needs with the spouses… your husband is doing this… he has not come to you and told you what is eating him and why he’s going on line. In a healthy marriage he would tell you. But first he needs to know what is eating him. I don’t think he knows…. Instead he acts out online and that acting out somehow creates brain chemistry changes that calm him down or make him feel that the need is met.

You might be interested in some books written by Dr. Harley. His theory is that the root of most infidel is unmet needs. I have links to 3 of his books below for building a passionate marriage (no not misread ‘passion’ to mean only sexual) . The book of the 3 that might be the most interesting to you right now is _*“His Needs, Her Needs”*_. There is another by him that might give you some insight, *“Surviving an Affair”*. His work is mostly about how to affair proof a marriage by find out and meeting each other needs.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

Elegirl, that was a great reply! Very thorough and you gave me a lot to think about.

When I say I don't care if he chats online I mean it...but with some stipulations that I didn't mention. If he is chatting ongoing with the same person(s) and developing something that would definitely be a problem. Mostly it is the lying that bugs me. In fact, if he told me that he is bisexual and he really needs to have sex with a man every few months or something that out of left field I would be okay with that. I don't consider these kinds of things cheating if there is open discussion about them. The lying though...ugh!

I've got lots to think about, thanks again for all that. <3


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mountains said:


> Anyway, I guess what I really want to know most of all is if guys that do this still love their partners.


You ask about guys who do this… remember that not only guys do it. Just as many women do. 

Not everyone who does this still loves their partner. Some do.
But they do not trust their partner enough to tell their partner their own personal issues.


mountains said:


> I mean, like if there is a reason outside of me not being good enough, that he could be doing this. A reason outside of me completely. I have insecurity sometimes and I work really really hard on it because it's always been an issue in all relationships for me (including friendships and coworkers) so this is really hard for me. Since it is so personal I have only talked to that one friend about it so I don't have my usual network of male friends to go to this time around. -- which is why I was looking for replies from guys. I've got a pretty strong group of friends and I'm not used to talking to ONLY one of them about something.


The issue is not good enough. There is no perfect person in this world. We are all flawed. If you are willing to hear your partner out on his needs and work towards filling the reasonable ones then you are as good as anyone can be.

The issue here is that your husband is not sharing with you all of his problems and needs. He is not even giving you the opportunity to meet all of his needs.

Part of this might be that there are needs he has that he knows you can never meet, for example if he needs to have encounters (sexting) with other women so that he can experience sexual pleasure that has not pressure to stratify a partner… you cannot meet that need by definition.

In a marriage, there is an obligation to tell one’s spouse what we need. If we do not, we cannot hold that person responsible for not meeting our needs.

We see this all the time on these forums.. a wife/husband who has an affair because their needs were not met. Yet the WS has never articulated to the BS about the unmet needs and how the BS can fill them. In these cases the BS is not responsible for not meeting needs they never even knew existed. 

Do not beat yourself up for what he is doing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mountains said:


> Elegirl, that was a great reply! Very thorough and you gave me a lot to think about.
> 
> When I say I don't care if he chats online I mean it...but with some stipulations that I didn't mention. If he is chatting ongoing with the same person(s) and developing something that would definitely be a problem. Mostly it is the lying that bugs me. In fact, if he told me that he is bisexual and he really needs to have sex with a man every few months or something that out of left field I would be okay with that. I don't consider these kinds of things cheating if there is open discussion about them. The lying though...ugh!
> 
> I've got lots to think about, thanks again for all that. <3


The lying is huge. 

Since he is not looking to establish relationships as my husband was it looks like your husband is looking for easy, short term sexual sexting. You say that he suffers from anxiety. My take at this point is that he feels a lot of pressure in your relationship and it’s causing him anxiety. So these casual online hookups relieve that anxiety. They are short term, require very little from him. So he gets to feel good and sexually attractive in an environment with little to no pressure on him. It’s easy. It relieves some anxiety he has.

Sometimes the reason for a behavior changes when our environment changes. So the reason for him doing this now could be different from the reason he did it before he married you.

You say that often feel like you are not good enough. Could it be that you are putting pressure on him to assure you that you are good enough? 

I do not want to put this on your shoulders because he’s responsible for his choice to continue this activity after he married you and not handling it in a healthier manner. But this might give you some place to start looking.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

Elegirl, I've been thinking a lot and have had a few pm conversations and I am going to try to just move forward as if I didn't know. And by that I mean the whole deal...that means no more acting insecure, etc. It is possible that my insecurity can cause it but that for me is something that comes and goes not an all-over thing. I think it's more likely an escape, maybe a bit of a fetish and a validation/ego boost thing...as well as what you mentioned about feeling pressure in the relationship. 

I'll continue to keep tabs...if it doesn't escalate then maybe it is just something he needs right now and I can approach him about it again later when I feel he is at a better place emotionally to start making progress. 

It's hard for me because of the lying but I have to remember that this could be something exceptional and the only thing he would lie about because it could be something he is ashamed of. I just have to put some "cautious" trust in him...& what I mean by that is I will check again every few months just to be sure but otherwise I am going to let him deal with it and only bring it up again if it becomes a problem.

The last week my upset about this has definitely affected things. He is acting different, closing browser windows and stuff when before he wouldn't. He's obviously picking up my unease so I'm going to just move forward like I didn't know... if I can lol


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

EleGirl has some great posts here. Well said, EG! Best of luck, MTNS.


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## EverRain (Jun 6, 2012)

Yes, thanks Elegirl

I believe that my WH was also getting some kind of self-esteem, ego boost from his online EA/Flirting (not sure what to call it yet), and for what its worth, he claims that this is the only thing he wanted.


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