# Car mechanical types please....question re: car maintenance and dealer service



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Do you take your car to the dealer for maintenance even when off of warranty? I find that my car is now off of warranty a lot of what I pay for is inspection..i.e. my next service the dealer said is 800.00..less than half of that amount is spark plug change and oil change...the rest is inspections! Seems ridiculous to me.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

$800.00 for what? Most if not all cars these days get 100,000 miles on a set of spark plugs. What does your manual state for spark plug replacement? 
Most if not all cars today do not have spark plug wires. So just what are you getting for $800.00? Oil, filter 4-6 spark plugs. About $30.00 for parts. The rest is labor? Are you driving a Lamborghini?


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

A newer VW...the manual does say that spark plugs should be replaced at 90000 km (Canada) and I am close to that so that is fine...hubby is going to change those. 

It is a 4 cylinder vehicle.

I agree with you the cost is ridiculous!


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## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

I do a lot myself on my commuter car, and what I can't do I take to a mechanic that I trust. I once took my car to the dealer for an oil change, and they called me up and told me all that I needed to have done. I declined everything when they said I needed a new cabin filter and wanted $95 to do it. The cabin filter costs $14 and takes literally 60 seconds to change.

I have never taken my car to the dealer when it was out of warranty again.

Spark plugs usually require very deep sockets and definitely a torque wrench, but those plus the parts you need can be had for less than $100, and then you'll have the tools for future work.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

800$
Holy cow.

Find a local mechanic and get their estimate.


I do all my own repairs. But i have acquired lots of tools over the years. Today I am replacing the speed sensors on the transmission.

Ordered the parts on line for 70$ 




auto zone wanted 300 buck for them.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Seppuku said:


> I do a lot myself on my commuter car, and what I can't do I take to a mechanic that I trust. I once took my car to the dealer for an oil change, and they called me up and told me all that I needed to have done. I declined everything when they said I needed a new cabin filter and wanted $95 to do it. The cabin filter costs $14 and takes literally 60 seconds to change.
> 
> I have never taken my car to the dealer when it was out of warranty again.
> 
> Spark plugs usually require very deep sockets and definitely a torque wrench, but those plus the parts you need can be had for less than $100, and then you'll have the tools for future work.


They even said the price included a sunroof inspection and maintenance...but...I don't have a sun roof


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

chillymorn69 said:


> 800$
> Holy cow.
> 
> Find a local mechanic and get their estimate.
> ...


They charge you mainly to "inspect" everything, engine scan and battery test included...to me unless something is wrong with the vehicle and there is not why bother?? Just a money making thing.

Hubby will change Spark plugs, he is an industrial mechanic so he has all the tools.

What about


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

There's not much that an owner can work on these days unless you have the electronic diagnostic tools. Especially a German car!

I take mine to an independent specialty shop. Yes, parts are expensive for a German car but this shop gets OEM parts for much less than the dealer charges. Dealers tend to charge full retail on parts, and then charge expensive maintenance at full book rate. Book rate is a list of how many hours it takes to do a job. It may say 2.4 hours but in reality the mechanic can rush through it in much less time. The dealer and/or mechanic pocket that difference! My independent mechanic typicallly costs me about half what the dealer would charge for the same job, parts + labor.

Things like spark plugs I like to change before the owner's manual suggests. Also be sure to get brake fluid and coolant replaced per the manual, if not a bit sooner. They degrade and can damage your vehicle.

Some things are masked by the electronics. Then suddenly something goes very wrong because the system can't make any further internal adjustments. This is where a good diagnostic evaluation can be worth it, but do research to see what kinds of problems your year/make/model is prone to. My mechanic recommended a complete transmission flush at 100k miles even though the manufacturer lists no service needed ever. 

Inspections, though, are generally not needed. If your sunroof was leaking or making noise, yeah it needs attention. Or if your doors are squeeking or not latching correctly. Light bulbs could be burned out. Brakes could be nearly worn out. My mechanic does a quick free check of all these kinds of things because sometimes he gets extra work from it. He never charges for such inspections!

Get recommendations before selecting a new shop. Some are horribly incompetent or use crap parts to be cheap.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Personally?

I never take cars to the dealership for service. I like my hard earned $$ way too much to give it away like that!

I grew up around cars, my dad and I have changed plenty of air filters, spark plugs, brake pads and rotors, simple jobs like replacing an alternator I can do myself. 

That said.... I care for my cars with benign neglect HA! So far, so good. The Mitsubishi has 260,000 and is still hummin' the Ford has 190K, and the youngster, our Honda has 160K. 

In my experience often dealerships will charge you as much as double of what an honest mechanic would. We have a trusted shop the family has been going to for 25 years now, and they always come in WAY WAY under dealership quotes. We take our cars there for major work or service like timing belt changes. I have refereed a ton of friends there, and they are so pleased to be able to save money, while supporting a family run business.

(edited to add... course, my cars are not German, specifically avoid them due to the high cost of parts and work. We owned a VW once, after that experience (with their sealed, couldn't be services transmission) vowed to never own one again).


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

highwood said:


> They charge you mainly to "inspect" everything, engine scan and battery test included...*to me unless something is wrong with the vehicle and there is not why bother*?? Just a money making thing.
> 
> Hubby will change Spark plugs, he is an industrial mechanic so he has all the tools.


Because they WILL find things wrong..... and take unsuspecting customers MONEY! The scams these places pull, they are counting on the fact that most car owners these days are not mechanically inclined or knowledgeable.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

highwood said:


> A newer VW...the manual does say that spark plugs should be replaced at 90000 km (Canada) and I am close to that so that is fine...hubby is going to change those.
> 
> It is a 4 cylinder vehicle.
> 
> I agree with you the cost is ridiculous!


Well, VW is trying to pay off the billion dollar fine for sending out diesels with compromised computer programming. Your $800.00 is sorely needed!!!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

highwood said:


> They even said the price included a sunroof inspection and maintenance...but...I don't have a sun roof


No worries. Will change that part of in the inspection to the muffler bearings. Make sure the muffler bearings are greased. Plus, they will switch the blinker fluid from winter to summer. All set!


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

I (husband of the owner of this account) work at a dealer and can confirm that many dealers are not honest. But to say that every one is dishonest is unfair. The dealer I work for prides itself on its honesty, and we do not rip people off. Our services are price checked against other local businesses, and are only more expensive due to the cost of using oem oil and parts(which we are to use because that is part of the point of being a dealer). Further, we only recommend services that are listed in your manual, and offer to show people how and why something is wrong if they don't believe us. Also, we do free inspections.

Now, that being said, a woman came to me last night wanting to change dealers. She brought her entire history over and said, "please check this over and make sure I am up to date." She had about 48000 miles on her car, and, seeing as we have 6000 mile intervals, she had more than a couple invoices. Well, lets just say this other dealership took her for a ride. Alignment every other service? every 3rd had a throttle body clean (this manufacturer does not suggest them unless experiencing an issue, as too much will screw the cat). and my favorite bit was that they never once suggested replacing the air filter, which, by manufacturer spec, should be done at 30k.

Another story, an older gentleman came to me with a receipt from the "quicky lube" (name changed to protect the imbecilic) for over 500 on his car with 18k on it. services included just about everything not due until 60k, plus that damn throttle body cleaner. Well, he came to me because he had a check engine light on, and it was a P0420. Cat efficiency below standard. I wonder why?

My point is, dealers aren't dishonest. Some are, but others aren't. The important thing to know is that every dealer is a local company who is licensed from the manufacturer to perform warranty work and sell that car. What this means is its a local business. Some are shady, some aren't. Do your research, and get second opinions. Maybe that dealer isn't honest. Maybe the one in the next town is?

Also, benefits of going to a quality dealer which you trust. Many have techs that have worked on only your car and those like it, for 30 years or more. What your warranty covers might surprise you. Active recalls, extensions... Try finding a local shop that can accurately find these things out. OEM parts, which are literally the best part, with the lowest failure tolerance. Sure it can be gotten cheaper elsewhere, but should it?

All this being said, I work on my own car with whatever cheapest parts I can find. But, I bring my wife's car to the dealer, and get a new one for her every three years. Yay leasing! 

There are benefits and issues with going to a dealer. But overall, honesty and trust is what separates one dealer (or local shop) from another. 

In direct response to OP, RUN. Charging for inspections? Inspecting things you car isn't even equipped with? That's super shady. Run away. Then when you are away, find the manufacturers customer service phone number, and let them know what these guys did to you. Most manufacturers take this stuff quite seriously.


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=s_0THARUP9A

Listen to the whole thing. This is great. But also educational. Also a prank.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

highwood said:


> Do you take your car to the dealer for maintenance even when off of warranty? I find that my car is now off of warranty a lot of what I pay for is inspection..i.e. my next service the dealer said is 800.00..less than half of that amount is spark plug change and oil change...the rest is inspections! Seems ridiculous to me.


*I have an older car, a 2003 Nissan Altima SL(6 Cylinder).

Two very expensive things that I had recently done to it were (1) it needed the sensor warning codes recalibrated, and (2) the check engine light came on and another sensor code indicated that one of the original spark plugs was all but worn out, as the manufacturer said that they'd never require changing! All of this supposedly required getting up under the car and working on it from underneath a grease rack. As you may recall, in yesteryear, spark plugs were easily changed from the very top of the engine!

Notwithstanding, that first procedure cost some $550-600. The second one ran $550. And yes,- 95% of the costs were strictly labor! 

And it was done by a local mechanic. Had I taken it to the Nissan dealership, either of these procedures would have been in the thousands! And almost all of it in labor costs!

With increasing regularity, automakers are building cars to the point that they want to be the only ones to be able to effectively repair or to do maintenance on them!

They absolutely do not want to share the wealth! Not with their buyers or with the independent mechanics!*


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I knew someone that owned a dealership...he stated all the money is in service...not sales.
The Acura dealer charged us over $500 to change transmission fluid...the next time I did it myself for $90
after watching one youtube video. At 80K they wanted to change sparkplugs. It now has 130 and the plugs
never got changed.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Just open up the manual and keep up with the scheduled maintenance and you'll be fine.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

To me it seems so silly to put it on the computer to look for codes...seriously in my experience if the check engine light comes on then fine that is when you do that. The vehicle is running fine no reason to do an engine scan on it.

I agree about the fines they are paying for the emissions scandal I think that is why they are trying to make more money out of doing service....although I did phone a couple of independent garages about oil change price and honestly they charge the same or more than VW does to change the oil.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

I am a retired fixer. I changed my camshaft position sensor today for the cost of the part from eBay, $9.00.

Here are some quotes: Local auto parts store $45 for the cam position sensor.

The average cost for a sub compact Chevrolet ******, Camshaft Position Sensor Replacement is between $113 and $234. Labor costs are estimated between $70 and $167 while parts are priced between $43 and $67. Estimate does not include taxes and fees. (the fees are charges for shop supplies).

My speedometer didn't work several years ago. The dealer estimate was ???? and up to $525. I fixed it for $14.

My car needs the timing belt replace at 60,000 miles. Really bad things happen if the belt breaks so I changed it at 50,000 miles. The dealer cost is over $500. 

I replaced the timing belt, the idler puller, and the water pump for $60. Again eBay and all of the parts were as good as OEM. I also replaced a few other parts because where I live, the next very small town might be 50 to 75 miles away when I am on the road. Small towns don't have auto parts stores. 

www rockauto com is another good place to buy auto parts online. Sometime www 1aauto com has better part prices, especially when compared to AutoZone and the part is exactly the same.

Speaking of spark plugs, I found out a long time ago the deal with then is the gap gets larger more so than they wear out. I just usually re-gap my old style spark plugs if the electrodes look half way decent and reinstall them. I don't know if I could do that and have it work with the platinum and other rare metals spark plugs.

When it comes to a check engine, ABS, etc light coming on, most or several auto parts stores will do a free scan for you. It takes all of 5 minuets to connect their OBD-2 scanner to the cars OBD-2 port. Some dealers charge $50+ to do this. I have my own OBD-2 scanner and use it on my and my friends cars and light trucks. It saves me several hours of guess work but it isn't full prof. There is usually a youtube video that explains most car repairs if I need a little extra help.

In the defense of some car dealerships, the car manufacture sends the repair shop tools, manuals, training material and the dealer gets billed a very high price for this stuff. It can't be refused. The cost of insurance, workers compensation, utilities, seemed astronomical to me when I was working for a dealership. I know those costs are a lot higher now.

In general I am not a fan of dealership repairs because of usually higher costs. Get several referrals from friends about repair shops they use and trust.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

We've never had a vehicle that had a warranty ... we specifically look to buy older vehicles that my husband can work on... this has saved us a tremendous amount of money over the years, which is very helpful with a larger family to raise.... we have 2 suburbans (a 1997 @ 1999) that have 200,000 + miles... still running good, very faithful... Love those 350 engines... 

And we favor Hondas....(have 2 older CR-V's) due to their ability many times to last up to 300,000 miles before the engine / Tranny goes... We do our own body work also, paint jobs... 

My husband won't rebuild a motor or Transmission but pretty much everything else.. he can do it himself... but again.. we prefer the older vehicles.. as this is getting increasingly more difficult with newer .


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

highwood said:


> Do you take your car to the dealer for maintenance even when off of warranty? I find that my car is now off of warranty a lot of what I pay for is inspection..i.e. my next service the dealer said is 800.00..less than half of that amount is spark plug change and oil change...the rest is inspections! Seems ridiculous to me.


It is ridiculous. I was a Ford and ASE Master tech. I was continually getting in trouble for not up selling enough. 

If there are local vehicle inspections required in your location, can they be completed by a independent garage? They are normally less expensive then the dealership. 

Also find a mechanic you can trust and knows what they are doing. 

When I as turning wrenches, the service department paid the bills. That is where the money is made.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> No worries. Will change that part of in the inspection to the muffler bearings. Make sure the muffler bearings are greased. Plus, they will switch the blinker fluid from winter to summer. All set!


Don't forget that the L10 cap will probably need serviced as well. Easily a $250 job.

I have seen countless times where someone takes their car into for a service that always includes a full inspection. It never fails that they haven't always found something that if it isn't fixed is going to be very dangerous to you, your family and your car.

Some examples:
My sister had an old car, she was in college, it started making this noise. So she took it in to a dealer. The dealer said she had thrown a rod and would need a complete engine overhaul and if that didn't work, an engine replacement (they of course wouldn't know until they got into it). Turns out the fan belt was frayed and a piece of it was slapping against the fan bracket as it rotated. Their price was $2000 to start (more than the price of the car). Her price was something like $20 for a new belt.
A woman that worked with me took her car to a nationally known tire store for routine maintenance. Always thinking she would have about $100 in the job. Inevitably she would get a call telling her some most distressing news. Then $1000 later she got to pick up her car. She never did see the pattern. Later I took my car in to the same shop to get new tires. Sure as sun rise, about two hours later I get the call - my master cylinder on my brakes is shot. The only repair is complete replacement. They could get me one and do the repair, but it was going to cost $1500. I had just had the brakes done at a mom and pop place down the street. They hadn't said anything about it. So I picked up the car and took it back to them to see what they had to say. Turns out I had a bad brake pad, that they replaced free of charge. 100,000 miles later I still didn't need that master cylinder.
I would find a good shade tree mechanic, perhaps the husband or brother of a friend and take my car to them before I would ever take it back to one of those money pits.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

ABHale said:


> It is ridiculous. I was a Ford and ASE Master tech. I was continually getting in trouble for not up selling enough.
> 
> If there are local vehicle inspections required in your location, can they be completed by a independent garage? They are normally less expensive then the dealership.
> 
> ...


Those vehicle inspections are another racket. I had a body beat the insides out of a gummed up catalytic converter so all that was left was the exterior shell. He took the car into an inspection station and it passed no issues


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

IMO Dealers for warranty work only. Non warranty work to a specialist type shop.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> I knew someone that owned a dealership...he stated all the money is in service...not sales.
> The Acura dealer charged us over $500 to change transmission fluid...the next time I did it myself for $90
> after watching one youtube video. At 80K they wanted to change sparkplugs. It now has 130 and the plugs
> never got changed.


Hahahah my poor Mitsubishi (I abuse that car) has 260,000+ miles - and still has the original spark plugs. I am sure those suckers are seized in there by this point.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Ynot said:


> Don't forget that the L10 cap will probably need serviced as well. Easily a $250 job.
> 
> I have seen countless times where someone takes their car into for a service that always includes a full inspection. It never fails that they haven't always found something that if it isn't fixed is going to be very dangerous to you, your family and your car.
> 
> ...


I'm cut from a different cloth. I started as a tire spinner(mounting tires) at a tire shop. Used my brains to learn alignments. Obtained certifications in ASE. Suspension and brakes, transmissions, engine performance. Worked as technician and finally promoted to service manager. I did this by being honest with my customers. Only performed what was needed. Never looked to hang new parts were it was not needed. I had many returning faithful customers. I did experience car owners who only authorize the minimum only to bite them in the butt. Example: I quoted new master cylinder and completed brake overhaul on a Volvo. Brake peddle on the floor. Pads shot. Customer asked for new pads only. Following day the owner drove the car into a 7-11 store. Master cylinder failure. Customer attempted to claim it was my fault. Records(estimates) show a master cylinder was recommended just the day before. Customer declined. 

Anyway, what I learned over my years as a mechanic has paid for itself many times over. I do not work on friends or families cars. I found if I do every noise, rumble or whatever is now my problem.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Bananapeel said:


> Just open up the manual and keep up with the scheduled maintenance and you'll be fine.


This typically is all you will ever need to do. Every so often you will find a component that goes bad, but not until you get in the higher mileage range (usualy).



highwood said:


> To me it seems so silly to put it on the computer to look for codes...seriously in my experience if the check engine light comes on then fine that is when you do that. The vehicle is running fine no reason to do an engine scan on it.


For a lot of cars, you are correct. But I have found with VW that the computer will store specific VW codes that require a special program to read. But hooking up the computer and running the program only takes about 5 minutes....



highwood said:


> I agree about the fines they are paying for the emissions scandal I think that is why they are trying to make more money out of doing service....


I was the recipient of a nice check from VW for my diesel. I got 177k miles out of it and they paid me double the NADA value


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Like many stereotypes, the ones related to auto dealerships have some truth to them.

For me I do like to take the time to look into where I take my cars if needed and usually go with the well reviewed ones if I really need to.


Inspections are tricky as you are counting on the dealer to know what to look for and you assume they will do a good job - usually NOT.

I had a Jeep a few years ago that I took in for a "full inspection" and one item they came back with was the radio antenna needed replacing (visually obvious there is no antenna) - after listening to their full report of where thing are 'wrong' and needed repair I asked to see the manager.

The manager comes over and asks me what he can help with. I tell him I'm not comfortable with the level of "inspection" done and he goes on to tell me how much time goes into each inspection, how everything is tested and tried out, etc.

I then walk over the Jeep, start it up and turn on the radio - pow - the automatic power antenna works just great and extends like it always had.

So I never go back there for anything anymore.


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