# Responsive desire



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

For a few possible reasons my strong sex drive, the desire and drive to have sex, has morphed into a responsive desire. Over the last 6-8 weeks or so I have slowly stopped initiating sex, slowly stopped initiating affection, slowly stopped insisting alone time. Not actually being aware of this fully until yesterday I skipped along not seeing this pattern in myself.

I quote MEM below because I feel like I carried our sex life based on my raw desire for sex. I did things to get my husband going because I WANTED sex! But for the last few weeks, I stopped doing all of it because my desire for sex just disappeared.


MEM's quote below kind of resonated with me because what I am left with is the desire to avoid displeasing my husband. However, this can't be a reason for sex as a rule. Because a woman who is having sex in order to avoid displeasing her partner is going to have minimal sexual fulfillment from sex, as a rule. And this has been happening with me lately. And it's Pissing me off!!!

This sets up a downward pattern making sex even less fulfilling because it is now *almost* turning into a chore._ I iron his shirts to make him happy and so that I don't make him displeased or feel unloved. I feel good about not being selfish and making him happy. But I don't get much enjoyment from ironing his shirts._ 



MEM11363 said:


> Long ago I wrote a post proposing that we differentiate between terms:
> 
> 1. Raw sex drive
> 2. Sexual desire for partner
> ...



So, my raw desire has turned into responsive desire. My ability orgasm fiercely has turned into an internal battle in which imagine every erotic scenario just to get a roller orgasm.

I'm losing my grove and I don't know what to do about because I'm not sure how much is organically driven by menopause or by the absence of the pattern of actions both my husband and I have counted on to keep our sex life alive. 

If the vast majority of our encounters were promoted by me in one form or another and I'm no longer doing them because I no longer have a drive to do them, what we are left with is "maintenance" sex.

Questions:

What suggestions can you offer for me and offer for my husband!?

Has anyone else been through this polar shift of sex drive and how did you handle it?

My H will read this so I'm hoping we both walk away from this thread with a bag of tricks to use to both bring back my sex drive and to cope with a responsive sex drive with a traveling husband who is tired when he gets home.

Today I'm going to think about sex all day and see if that helps bring my arousal to where I want it to be.

I want my raw sex drive back dammit!
I want my fierce orgasms back dammit!


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> For a few possible reasons my strong sex drive, the desire and drive to have sex, has morphed into a responsive desire. Over the last 6-8 weeks or so I have slowly stopped initiating sex, slowly stopped initiating affection, slowly stopped insisting alone time. Not actually being aware of this fully until yesterday I skipped along not seeing this pattern in myself.
> 
> I quote MEM below because I feel like I carried our sex life based on my raw desire for sex. I did things to get my husband going because I WANTED sex! But for the last few weeks, I stopped doing all of it because my desire for sex just disappeared.
> 
> ...



I feel for you, I really do.

Been there, done that.

I also have a strong sex drive. I always initiated and did things to try and get Mrs.CuddleBug more in the mood. But I remember I just started losing interest and my drive was disappearing. It wasn't all at once. It was over years. Then I noticed one day, the last time we had sex was over one month ago and I didn't care!!! And I am the HD adventurous hubby. 

With me, its use it or lose it, so if my LD wifee can go one month of no sex, eventually it will backfire on her and it did. She initiated sex one Saturday and I told her, I'm not in the mood. You should of seen the look on her face!!!! Shock, surprise, and you name it. She tried again the next day even more, nope I'm not in the mood and why do you always push for sex I said? Oh, you should of seen the look on Mrs.CuddleBug's face at that point. Then I finally agreed, we went to the bedroom but I had a hard time having an orgasm and I almost couldn't and it took me forever. 

I told Mrs.CuddleBug, either we have a healthy sex life or we don't. Use it or lose it. So sex 1x month means we are in big trouble and I'm getting older too. We'll, Mrs.CuddleBug initiates about 2x week now but lately, she is back to her old LD ways and its more like 1x to 2x month, like it was way back.

So right now, I don't desire sex like I would of if Mrs.CuddleBug had a healthy sex drive. But the downside is, I do my own thing alone. We sometimes eat together, talk, even cuddle and hug, etc., but we do a lot of stuff alone most of the time. If I don't get my needs met, I withdraw and do my own thing. She knows my love language is Physical rating 12, but that doesn't compute to a LD wifee.

I also do things that I know Mrs.CuddleBug appreciates without being asked for help. She just comes home and its done with not much for her to do and even on occasion surprise dinners. Doesn't compute to a LD wifee.

Now all that aside, Mrs.CuddleBug is caring, kind, loving, smart, frugal and a good woman. Everything I guy would want, but not in the sexual department. Can't win 'em all.

I have read that female body builders do take mild testosterone injections anavar with testosterone and their sex drives go way up, wanting sex every day. Actually, I know this is fact and they also lose most of their body fat.

I can have sex every day but I can live with sex once every second day at 3x to 4x week. Mrs.CuddleBug, 1x month to 2x week.

Nothing you can do. They have to want to change and take care of your needs and not their own.

If there only was a way to group all LD's together and then marry someone who is the same as yourself.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Did anything change 6-8 weeks ago? Did you go on a diet? Did you start or stop eating or drinking anything or make other changes in your eating? Did you start or stop any prescription or recreational drugs?

Did any emotional event happen?

Did a stressful event happen?

Did you receive wonderful or horrible news?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Did anything change 6-8 weeks ago? Did you go on a diet? Did you start or stop eating or drinking anything or make other changes in your eating? Did you start or stop any prescription or recreational drugs?
> 
> *Stopped taking narcotics and started taking muscle relaxers.
> *
> ...


No news either.

I noticed last year that when I got to bed and took a hydrocodone, as soon as it kicked in and the pain was no longer there and I felt totally relaxed...ahhhhhhhhh....that's when I felt a strong desire for sex.

Through PT and injections, the pain level has decreased and I now only take muscles relaxers 3 times a day. I rarely ever took a narcotic more than once a day at bed time so I could get comfortable enough to sleep.

My husband thinks this might play a role, but I'm skeptical in terms of the muscle relaxer, or lack of narcotic, affecting my orgasms. I'm convinced the narcotic helped "uncover" my sex drive because it's hard to want sex when you're in pain and uncomfortable. But how could the lack of narcotic affect my sex drive this much? How could the lack of narcotic affect my orgasms this much. It seems like the narcotic would inhibit an orgasm...?


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm thinking the same thing FW...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

People are different, our chemistry is different and affected by different things. Example: some people get horny from smoking weed, some people fall asleep, some people get paranoid, some people feel next to no difference. The same people may experience different results from edible marijuana versus smoking it.

I can see how muscle relaxers could inhibit orgasm. That just makes sense.

Also you may have just made a psychological association with that *ping* you felt when the narcs would kick in, associating it with being horny. Or it could be that the narcs lifted enough of your inhibitions to put you in pursuit mode for sex, and without them you are in response mode.

I'm going to guess that when you stopped initiating, he did too? I think this is part of the problem in the dynamic in your relationship. You want him to act a certain way and you are turned on when he does...but he doesn't do it naturally, you basically have to tell him how to do it and get on his back when he stops. Would you say that is somewhat accurate?

Eventually, HD men lose their desire in the same way. They get too tired of asking her to keep up with him and eventually they just mentally inhibit themselves so they won't have to bother with it.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Anon,

Is there a reason why you switched to muscle relaxers?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Generally speaking, I have a strong sex drive. I also have responsive desire, but it is secondary to my own.

However...in this relationship, my responsive desire is very high, almost higher than my own natural sex drive...and the reason for this is because my husband pursues me and my body in a certain way, consistently, that keeps me horny all the time. He has his hands on me all the time, we make out daily, his body comes at me with primal lust frequently, he has those magical hands that keep my skin alive with touch and pleasure....these things work with my mind and body keeping my sex drive alive with no effort of my own.

When these things stop, say if he is out of town (which he is right now  ) I can feel immediately the loss of the responsive desire. There's nothing here to respond to.

My natural sex drive kicks in to replace it, but I can either ramp it up or let it stay dormant for a bit, because I do not like feeling sexually frustrated.

I think you have tried getting your H to understand more of the touching and fun play (combined with loving and emotional displays, like dipping you in the kitchen) before. Has he taken any of that advice and put it to regular use?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> No news either.
> 
> I noticed last year that when I got to bed and took a hydrocodone, as soon as it kicked in and *the pain was no longer there and I felt totally relaxed...ahhhhhhhhh....that's when I felt a strong desire for sex.*
> 
> ...


What about before you were ever in pain and uncomfortable? Did you have a high sex drive then? If not, then no, Vicodin did not uncover your sex drive. It relaxed you enough and shut your brain down enough to feel _only _a sex drive. 

The muscle relaxers are taking care of the pain and are relaxing you, but they aren't enough to shut off your brain like the Vicodin did.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Im thinking too: change of meds = change in body chemistry.

it should come back once the body chemistry restores to physiological balance


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## CarlaRose (Jul 6, 2014)

You make all that conjecture about the narcotic, but how could you not see it's the muscle relaxer that is hindering you?

For that matter, maybe consider the narcotic had that affect on you, as opposed to the lack of it having the opposite affect. Which also would make sense.

Ginseng is your answer. At least it's worth a try anyway. I don't think it increases your sex drive. What it does is increase your sensitivity, so you feel more alive. Sex feels WAY better and orgasms are off the charts.

See if it can counter the effects of the muscle relaxer to perk up your nerve endings with the ginseng. Get some ginseng gum because it works faster. Chew one or two sticks just before bedtime.

Be sure to first read up and make sure there are not interactions between ginseng and the medicine you're taking.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> People are different, our chemistry is different and affected by different things. Example: some people get horny from smoking weed, some people fall asleep, some people get paranoid, some people feel next to no difference. The same people may experience different results from edible marijuana versus smoking it.
> 
> I can see how muscle relaxers could inhibit orgasm. That just makes sense.
> 
> ...



That ping association is probably right on. 

Yes, when I stopped, he stopped. True, he doesn't do it naturally and true I have to get on his back..or smack the **** out him him take your pick.

I can how the loss of desire akin to what many HD men here talk about might be true, but I'm not intentionally doing it. 

What I noticed first several weeks ago was that my orgasms, and this was before I switched from narcotics to muscle relaxers, seemed less fantastic and more difficult to reach. I could get there, but it took more effort and once there it wasn't as grand.




techmom said:


> Anon,
> 
> Is there a reason why you switched to muscle relaxers?


I guess it's not medically advised to live on narcotics? Wasn't my choice. My doc wanted me to switch so I did. As long as I'm not in too much discomfort to sleep, I don't care.




Faithful Wife said:


> Generally speaking, I have a strong sex drive. I also have responsive desire, but it is secondary to my own.
> 
> However...in this relationship, my responsive desire is very high, almost higher than my own natural sex drive...and the reason for this is because my husband pursues me and my body in a certain way, consistently, that keeps me horny all the time. He has his hands on me all the time, we make out daily, his body comes at me with primal lust frequently, he has those magical hands that keep my skin alive with touch and pleasure....these things work with my mind and body keeping my sex drive alive with no effort of my own.
> 
> ...


I agree and no he doesn't do those things on his own. It's almost like he has responsive desire too. And if I'm not pushing things he doesn't do it either. This is very frustrating.




norajane said:


> What about before you were ever in pain and uncomfortable? Did you have a high sex drive then? If not, then no, Vicodin did not uncover your sex drive. It relaxed you enough and shut your brain down enough to feel _only _a sex drive.
> 
> The muscle relaxers are taking care of the pain and are relaxing you, but they aren't enough to shut off your brain like the Vicodin did.


Before the constant pain my sex drive was through the roof! I wanted sex all the time and several times a day. In the past 6months or so, I noticed my orgasms were beginning to take a bit more effort and that my raw desire for sex was slowing a bit. It has been the last 2 months or so that my orgasms took a lot more effort and were rather tame. And the last maybe 3-4 weeks that my raw desire for sex has really begun to disappear.

So, while meds may be playing a role, our dynamic is playing a role, and menopause is playing a role. 




jorgegene said:


> Im thinking too: change of meds = change in body chemistry.
> 
> it should come back once the body chemistry restores to physiological balance



Do you think so? Do you think a new body chemistry without the narcotics will become normalized?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

CarlaRose said:


> You make all that conjecture about the narcotic, but how could you not see it's the muscle relaxer that is hindering you?
> 
> For that matter, maybe consider the narcotic had that affect on you, as opposed to the lack of it having the opposite affect. Which also would make sense.
> 
> ...



Thanks that might be an avenue for me. But I'm worried if the ginseng increases nerve sensitivity for sex it will also increase nerve sensitivity for pain.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Before the constant pain my sex drive was through the roof! I wanted sex all the time and several times a day. In the past 6months or so, I noticed my orgasms were beginning to take a bit more effort and that my raw desire for sex was slowing a bit. It has been the last 2 months or so that my orgasms took a lot more effort and were rather tame. And the last maybe 3-4 weeks that my raw desire for sex has really begun to disappear.
> 
> So, while meds may be playing a role, our dynamic is playing a role, and menopause is playing a role.


Vicodin is addictive. That's why your doctor wants to get you off it. You can't live on it all the time, because your body will adjust to it and will require more and more for the same effect.

That could be what was happening with you. You had a high sex drive before the pain. The pain then prevented you from feeling that sex drive, or anything else but the pain. Then the Vicodin killed the pain and relaxed you, so your sex drive could reassert itself.

However, while you were taking it, it started building up in your system and started having that narcotic effect on yoru body - orgasms harder to cme by. Now you are off that and on muscle relaxers, which dull the reactions of your muscles and make orgasms (muscle contractions!) even harder to come by.

Yes, menopause and your dynamic certainly make an impact, but it seems your medications are having their way with your body instead of you and your H.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Could there be a hormonal imbalance that was somehow masked by the narcotics? Progesterone in particular may be worth checking. It worked for my wife when her drive lessened due to hormonal changes.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Thanks that might be an avenue for me. But I'm worried if the ginseng increases nerve sensitivity for sex it will also increase nerve sensitivity for pain.


Please don't just start taking Ginseng, as it can be very dangerous for your heart. Ginseng is very powerful and can do a lot of damage. We did a few experiments with it in college and the risks are not something you want to take lightly. 

Your body is adjusting to a new medication and getting used to not being on narcotics. It takes time for you to adjust. It took months for my body to realize it's new normal when I went off narcotics years ago after major surgery. You have to give yourself some time before you think all is gone. If things are still not where you want them to be in about 4 or 5 months, then look into things more closely, but I wouldn't be so quick to try to change anything right now.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Muscle relaxants are well known to cause ED and low libido in men. So, it's not totally unreasonable to suspect it can have a similar effect on women.

In fact:Sexual Side Effects | Medication Side Effects - Consumer Reports


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

norajane said:


> Vicodin is addictive. That's why your doctor wants to get you off it. You can't live on it all the time, because your body will adjust to it and will require more and more for the same effect.
> 
> That could be what was happening with you. You had a high sex drive before the pain. The pain then prevented you from feeling that sex drive, or anything else but the pain. Then the Vicodin killed the pain and relaxed you, so your sex drive could reassert itself.
> 
> ...




That makes so much sense! 

My H and I did some research on physical responses today. More effort equals more response. 

Also, haven't taken the muscle relaxers today so maybe that helped.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

always_alone said:


> Muscle relaxants are well known to cause ED and low libido in men. So, it's not totally unreasonable to suspect it can have a similar effect on women.
> 
> In fact:Sexual Side Effects | Medication Side Effects - Consumer Reports


I didn't see that sexual side effects on the scare sheet from the pharmacy and I always read the scare sheets!

Gonna call my neurologist tomorrow and figure out something else. Cause... Hell no!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Could there be a hormonal imbalance that was somehow masked by the narcotics? Progesterone in particular may be worth checking. It worked for my wife when her drive lessened due to hormonal changes.


I'm going to look into progesterone too. Thanks!


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## CarlaRose (Jul 6, 2014)

No, ginseng doesn't make any pain worse. That's ridiculous. Maybe read up on it and you'll see that it helps nerve pain, muscle pain, and is also prescribed for fibromyalgia. 

It was a suggestion, so look into it if you want help, rather than dismiss it without knowing anything about it. The only thing that might be of concern are possible drug interactions. So, like I said, you can look into it if you want.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Ok, so you don't feel like having sex, and he does not initiate - on the surface it looks like you both should be happy....


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

To quote the oft said proverb of designers worldwide... "Fake it till you make it". 

If you feel that you can only have roaring sex or nothing, think again.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I didn't see that sexual side effects on the scare sheet from the pharmacy and I always read the scare sheets!
> 
> Gonna call my neurologist tomorrow and figure out something else. Cause... Hell no!


Going down the pharmaceutical road here...you might remember way back when my wife had ear surgery, and was on hydro for a couple of weeks. Within a couple of days of starting it, she suddenly lost the ability to orgasm. Like totally lost it. Not even with her toys. I immediately suspected the hydro, but could not find any listing of sexual side affects on any reputable drug sites. I finally found a couple of threads talking about it on a recreational use forum, and sure enough...the sexual side affects are all over the map  About the only common thing was that it changed the sexual responses.

With my wife, her desire was just as strong as ever, but her inability to orgasm frustrated her to the point of not wanting to actually have sex. Her desire to even try, in just that short amount of time started to wane.

Fortunately, within a day or so of being off the hydro, her body was back in full force, but I can easily see that if she had to be on them for any extended period of time, it would have wrecked our sex life.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

> For a few possible reasons my strong sex drive, the desire and drive to have sex, has morphed into a responsive desire. Over the last 6-8 weeks or so I have slowly stopped initiating sex, slowly stopped initiating affection, slowly stopped insisting alone time. Not actually being aware of this fully until yesterday I skipped along not seeing this pattern in myself.


Sorry you are having to deal!

I find this interesting. The fact that OK you are more responsive now but also even affection has stopped. Someone has to at least initiate a little affection. Maybe try putting that back on hubby, you aren't asking him to initiate sex but at least once or twice a day some sort of skin to skin contact for a couple minutes to give you something to respond to. 

Menopause is such a treat. my wife and I have had a little mini-burst of good times lately, 3 times in the past 11 days. I was about to comment on how nice it was she was really making an effort lately when she announced that "aunt flow" seems to be arriving this morning after being absent for 7 or 8 months. Now I'm wondering if there is a little temporary hormonal restoration involved in the last 2 weeks:scratchhead:. I think we'll be having a little convo this evening.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm going to look into progesterone too. Thanks!


Anon... progesterone cream has done wonders for me, not only as far as sex drive but just feeling better in general.

Unlike estrogen, progesterone is ONLY produced in the ovaries. So as we age, we have less and less available and start to feel like crap. 

Cream is better than oral progesterone (oral goes through the liver before it gets to the bloodstream and is drastically less effective). Also, I would recommend getting it from a compounding pharmacy as opposed to buying some of the over-the-counter products which have been shown to often contain far less progesterone than claimed on the label. And don't bother with the "wild yam extract" creams which cannot be converted to progesterone in your body. 

If you do buy over the counter, make sure the label clearly states "USP Progesterone" which is the real deal. Interestingly, OTC usually ends up being more expensive than prescription strength through a compounding pharmacy.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> Ok, so you don't feel like having sex, and he does not initiate - on the surface it looks like you both should be happy....


Yes, on the surface it might look thtpat way. But I worked too freaking hard to get where I am in terms of sexuality in general and my sex life in particular. Now that I've seen this pattern getting worse it's time to fix it, not allow it to continue. My sex life, sex drive and sexual satisfaction are too important to me to just let it go. 



john117 said:


> To quote the oft said proverb of designers worldwide... "Fake it till you make it".
> 
> If you feel that you can only have roaring sex or nothing, think again.


I will never fake it when it comes to sex. I will never settle for mediocre when fantastic is within reach.

I'm not talking about every single time..but most times.




samyeagar said:


> Going down the pharmaceutical road here...you might remember way back when my wife had ear surgery, and was on hydro for a couple of weeks. Within a couple of days of starting it, she suddenly lost the ability to orgasm. Like totally lost it. Not even with her toys. I immediately suspected the hydro, but could not find any listing of sexual side affects on any reputable drug sites. I finally found a couple of threads talking about it on a recreational use forum, and sure enough...the sexual side affects are all over the map  About the only common thing was that it changed the sexual responses.
> 
> With my wife, her desire was just as strong as ever, but her inability to orgasm frustrated her to the point of not wanting to actually have sex. Her desire to even try, in just that short amount of time started to wane.
> 
> Fortunately, within a day or so of being off the hydro, her body was back in full force, but I can easily see that if she had to be on them for any extended period of time, it would have wrecked our sex life.


Yes I remember Sam. Taking Vicodin 24/7 would certainly screw up the ability to orgasm. But taking it once a day, perhaps 4 days per week hadn't had that effect until many months into taking it. So I didn't make the connection. And it wasn't until the muscle relaxer that it got really bad, so I didn't really make the connection. 

Also, my H has a tendency to "rest" with regard to effort and he has been extremely busy with lots of traveling so it's easy to slide back into a disconnected pattern. Giving him "rest" time is reasonable, so it's not until I feel the distance between us, via irritation with him, that I start smacking him around. Hey! Pay attention to me!!!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Like design, faking it may result in mediocre results at first but as you remove the mental blocks you may find the results get better. If you expect fantastic 24/7 it may set unrealistic expectations of performance, anxiety, and the like. 

Think men, ED, and so on. It's a natural function.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

anonmd said:


> Sorry you are having to deal!
> 
> I find this interesting. The fact that OK you are more responsive now but also even affection has stopped. Someone has to at least initiate a little affection. Maybe try putting that back on hubby, you aren't asking him to initiate sex but at least once or twice a day some sort of skin to skin contact for a couple minutes to give you something to respond to.
> 
> Menopause is such a treat. my wife and I have had a little mini-burst of good times lately, 3 times in the past 11 days. I was about to comment on how nice it was she was really making an effort lately when she announced that "aunt flow" seems to be arriving this morning after being absent for 7 or 8 months. Now I'm wondering if there is a little temporary hormonal restoration involved in the last 2 weeks:scratchhead:. I think we'll be having a little convo this evening.


7-8 months and she gets her period! OMG I would be so pissed! I'm crossing my fingers because it's been since September since I got my period. I'd really really like to be done finally and for good!

Yes, most women do feel a surge in their sex drive before they get their period and also a few days into it. You should bring her a bouquet of flowers tonight, and a new red towel for period sex!





happy as a clam said:


> Anon... progesterone cream has done wonders for me, not only as far as sex drive but just feeling better in general.
> 
> Unlike estrogen, progesterone is ONLY produced in the ovaries. So as we age, we have less and less available and start to feel like crap.
> 
> ...


Really good to know thanks!

Who prescribes it?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> Like design, faking it may result in mediocre results at first but as you remove the mental blocks you may find the results get better. If you expect fantastic 24/7 it may set unrealistic expectations of performance, anxiety, and the like.
> 
> Think men, ED, and so on. It's a natural function.


John, now I know you know that the issues in my marriage were disconnect and distance due to an emotionally stunted and emotionally undeveloped (to put it nicely) husband. 

What exactly are you suggesting I fake? I cannot fake interest in sex or being with my husband when his tendency to man cave it 24/7 leaves me angry and hurt. I will not fake interest in sex when the only time he shows interest or affection is when he wants sex...that was how our marriage got so bad in the first place!

So Hell to the NO.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> John, now I know you know that the issues in my marriage were disconnect and distance due to an emotionally stunted and emotionally undeveloped (to put it nicely) husband.
> 
> What exactly are you suggesting I fake? I cannot fake interest in sex or being with my husband when his tendency to man cave it 24/7 leaves me angry and hurt. I will not fake interest in sex when the only time he shows interest or affection is when he wants sex...that was how our marriage got so bad in the first place!
> 
> *So Hell to the NO*.


Word to your mother.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, I was referring to your side of the equation only, assuming his side did not change. Which it did as you indicate. So the approach I suggested would not work as it will simply perpetuate the status quo. 

What caused his retreat to the man cave world and overall complacency?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Who prescribes it?


Your gynecologist or family doc can prescribe it. A typical formulation is 100mg per ml, but can be written for any strength depending on what you and your doc decide you need.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon, 
I'm not joking here.
If you are in a state that allows recreational or medical use of Marijuana, you might want to try it. With your medical conditions, you would have absolutely NO problem getting a medical card.
Marijuana is a MONSTER aphrodisiac.

BTW: If I had to pick ONE thing to absolutely kill my sex drive it would be ANY narcotic. This is a well documented fact.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> Well, I was referring to your side of the equation only, assuming his side did not change. Which it did as you indicate. So the approach I suggested would not work as it will simply perpetuate the status quo.
> 
> What caused his retreat to the man cave world and overall complacency?


A slow return to default? 

As my sex drive, raw desire for sex, slowed I stopped initiating sex by flirting, by sending dirty texts, and by seeking his touch-overt signals that I wanted sex. Left to himself to initiate sex, he'd be fine with once a week. My initiating sex several times a week reminded him to not only respond but to BE affectionate with me. So without those reminders, he forgot and went back to his default.

As he went back to his default, and since I wasn't burning for sex, I stopped cuddling up to him, stopped reaching out to him, stopped flirting etc. and all this lack of movement on my part allowed him to easily go back to man cave mode 24/7 until Saturday night when it had been 8 days since we had sex, 8 days since he showed any meaningful interest in me, and 8 days since either of us showed affection toward the other. It was then that I realized that my lack of sex drive severely affected our marriage, and not just the lack of sex. It affected me seeking attention, *which meant he didn't show or give attention which meant when he wanted sex Saturday night I was totally not interested AND rather pissed that he so easily ignored me all week but when he wanted sex he could reach out in affection. *<----- and this is exactly what a LOT of men do then get pissed when she's not interested!


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## tbk (Apr 22, 2014)

Narcotics can be tricky. In some ways they drop inhibitions and a "Desire" for sex can be pretty high. However, arousal and orgasm are difficult. After quite awhile, your brain could not be associating sex as a reward if orgasms are tougher or absent. 

Depending on the length of time you were on narcotics, it is pretty common to go through some depression. Muscle relaxers can sometimes make it worse because it can dampen mood and make you tired.

Narcotics diminish many signaling hormones in relation to sex. They all normalize in due time.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> Anon,
> I'm not joking here.
> If you are in a state that allows recreational or medical use of Marijuana, you might want to try it. With your medical conditions, you would have absolutely NO problem getting a medical card.
> Marijuana is a MONSTER aphrodisiac.
> ...


I tried medicinal pot over the summer, for 3 weeks. Did nothing for the pain and actually kept me awake following my paranoid thoughts. I've never reacted well to pot. It made me very passive in bed but sure as hell heightened my orgasmic ability! Damn! One night in particular.... Hmm hmm hmm!

I was prescribed 60 Vicodin per month. It would take me two months to go through a bottle during the worst of the pain before I got back into PT.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I tried medicinal pot over the summer, for 3 weeks. Did nothing for the pain and actually kept me awake following my paranoid thoughts. I've never reacted well to pot. It made me very passive in bed but sure as hell heightened my orgasmic ability! Damn! One night in particular.... Hmm hmm hmm!
> 
> I was prescribed 60 Vicodin per month. It would take me two months to go through a bottle during the worst of the pain before I got back into PT.


I've taken Vicodin several times in my life after surgeries. Not only is it big time ADDICTIVE, but it killed my sex drive. If at all possible, ditch the narcotics (forever) please.

If you must take a pain killer, try Tramadol. It does not work the same as an opiate based narcotic, does not kill sex drive, but is supposed to help pain. Down side, it's still addictive in the same way an SSRI is. "discontinuation syndrome"


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> I've taken Vicodin several times in my life after surgeries. Not only is it big time ADDICTIVE, but it killed my sex drive. If at all possible, ditch the narcotics (forever) please.
> 
> If you must take a pain killer, try Tramadol. It does not work the same as an opiate based narcotic, does not kill sex drive, but is supposed to help pain. Down side, it's still addictive in the same way an SSRI is. "discontinuation syndrome"


Tried tramadol. Make me so sick to my stomach. Couldn't tolerate it at all.

I'm off the narcotics and have a follow up this week with neurologist. 

But this marital issue remains. My husband's natural state is one of distance. He does not do affection naturally. He does not seek connection naturally, not in word or deed. Without my reminders to do this, he doesn't do it. This makes me feel a distinct lack love and desire for him. 

How can anyone stay in love when they don't feel loved?

This is what we've been working on for a few years and he knows this. Yes, he has improved a great deal but the fact remains that without a push and a poke from me he goes right back to default.

You get tired of pushing and poking you know?


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

UMP said:


> If you must take a pain killer, try Tramadol. It does not work the same as an opiate based narcotic, does not kill sex drive, but is supposed to help pain. Down side, it's still addictive in the same way an SSRI is. "discontinuation syndrome"


It's certainly worth talking to a doctor about Tramadol, but many people have serious problems with it. In my case, it has no pain relieving effects at all. I won't touch a potentially addicting drug if the damn thing doesn't work!

Anon Pink, I'm not trying to push cannabis, but is it possible that your previous experience might be related to the strain that you used? I tried some powerful edibles after surgery about a year ago and experienced similar unpleasant effects. I am now recovering from a knee replacement (ouch!) and find that smoking a powerful indica strain does in fact allow me to back off the oxycodone almost entirely. Of course, I'm really stoned a lot of the time and have no clue how it might be affecting my sex drive.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Big Dude said:


> It's certainly worth talking to a doctor about Tramadol, but many people have serious problems with it. In my case, it has no pain relieving effects at all. I won't touch a potentially addicting drug if the damn thing doesn't work!
> 
> Anon Pink, I'm not trying to push cannabis, but is it possible that your previous experience might be related to the strain that you used? I tried some powerful edibles after surgery about a year ago and experienced similar unpleasant effects. I am now recovering from a knee replacement (ouch!) and find that smoking a powerful indica strain does in fact allow me to back off the oxycodone almost entirely. Of course, I'm really stoned a lot of the time and have no clue how it might be affecting my sex drive.


I don't live in an MM state and know nothing about pot. I know enough people to know who to ask for some pot, but have no idea what to ask for. I didn't even use the little "single hit" thing right and was burning the hell out of my lungs until I got a lesson on it.

So I should ask for an indica strain? Will people know what I'm talking about?


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I didn't see that sexual side effects on the scare sheet from the pharmacy and I always read the scare sheets!
> 
> Gonna call my neurologist tomorrow and figure out something else. Cause... Hell no!


Yes, sexual side-effects are often not considered "scary" enough to warrant mentioning, as I suppose, they won't typically land you back in the hospital.

And, of course, there is a huge double standard, with a veritable mountain of documentation on sexual side-effects for men, but barely a whisper for women.

Definitely, explore your options!


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I don't live in an MM state and know nothing about pot. I know enough people to know who to ask for some pot, but have no idea what to ask for. I didn't even use the little "single hit" thing right and was burning the hell out of my lungs until I got a lesson on it.
> 
> So I should ask for an indica strain? Will people know what I'm talking about?


It's too bad you can't really access cannabis in a legally regulated market. In Colorado, I just walk into a dispensary and have a conversation with a knowlegable clerk about strains bred for pain killing.

I know nothing about the reliability of the black market where you live, so it might be irresponsible to suggest talking strains with a local dealer. Still, most people with a journeyman's understanding of weed recognize the difference between sativa and indica strains.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Yes, sexual side-effects are often not considered "scary" enough to warrant mentioning, as I suppose, they won't typically land you back in the hospital.
> 
> And, of course, *there is a huge double standard*, with a veritable mountain of documentation on sexual side-effects for men, but barely a whisper for women.
> 
> Definitely, explore your options!


I found a lack of information regarding sexual side affects across the board...for men and women. My guess is that many of these drugs, there was no specific call for people to report them because many of the narcotics were never intended for long term use, so were never studied in that capacity. In the short term, what they were intended for, chances are, if a person is legitimately needing oxy, sex is likely the last thing on their mind.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> 7-8 months and she gets her period! OMG I would be so pissed! I'm crossing my fingers because it's been since September since I got my period. I'd really really like to be done finally and for good!
> 
> Yes, most women do feel a surge in their sex drive before they get their period and also a few days into it. You should bring her a bouquet of flowers tonight, and a new red towel for period sex!


LOL! She WAS fairly pissed this morning. This is the second or maybe third return after a considerable absence. There were a few years of very erratic, 2-3-4 months between then a few of almost hitting the magic year but not quite. 

Might take the first piece of advice. The second piece, ehh, might be counter productive. Best to listen -


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I don't live in an MM state and know nothing about pot. I know enough people to know who to ask for some pot, but have no idea what to ask for. I didn't even use the little "single hit" thing right and was burning the hell out of my lungs until I got a lesson on it.
> 
> So I should ask for an indica strain? Will people know what I'm talking about?


Use a vaporizer. Much better for lungs.
Firefly Portable Vaporizer | Firefly - Instant Vapor. Pure Flavor.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> Use a vaporizer. Much better for lungs.
> Firefly Portable Vaporizer | Firefly - Instant Vapor. Pure Flavor.


What? $300.00!!!! I don't think so!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> I found a lack of information regarding sexual side affects across the board...for men and women. My guess is that many of these drugs, there was no specific call for people to report them because many of the narcotics were never intended for long term use, so were never studied in that capacity. In the short term, what they were intended for, chances are, if a person is legitimately needing oxy, sex is likely the last thing on their mind.


You have a point about not originally intended for long term use. But chronic pain is not new. Arthritis and spinal problems have always existed. So I kinda take offense to "legitimately needing oxy."


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> You have a point about not originally intended for long term use. But chronic pain is not new. Arthritis and spinal problems have always existed. So I kinda take offense to "legitimately needing oxy."


No doubt long term, chronic pain has existed for a long time, and pain management is necessary. Oxy, and other high powered, highly addictive narcotics are not intended for that use, however are frequently prescribed for it. My use of the word legitimate was not intended to be a slight against you, or any other chronic pain sufferer, rather indicating that it is often used far beyond it's scope.

Official studies don't generally include information, side affects, and such with regards to medication being used beyond the intended purpose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> This sets up a downward pattern making sex even less fulfilling because it is now *almost* turning into a chore._ I iron his shirts to make him happy and so that I don't make him displeased or feel unloved. I feel good about not being selfish and making him happy. But I don't get much enjoyment from ironing his shirts._


You.....iron his shirts?


Tell me more....


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

On a serious note--there's a lot of focus on this thread about a pharmacological cause/solution. Don't neglect the relationship side of it.

How does Mr Pink feel about this change of the tides?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> On a serious note--there's a lot of focus on this thread about a pharmacological cause/solution. Don't neglect the relationship side of it.
> 
> How does Mr Pink feel about this change of the tides?


For sure...the relationship side of things. Though most of us regulars know about that aspect of things, and Anon is very aware of them too, and what her husband responds to, and how long he has been that way, and how it is unlikely to change.

I think for me, the saddening part of this thread is, knowing her story, she's been the one carrying things for so long, and really needs him to step up and take the load for her, and I am not sure he is capable


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

AP--I've seen you mention on a number of occasions (including this thread) that you're unwilling to give up your sex life principally because of the amount of work you've invested in it. 

The work you've put in is admirable and something I think a lot of people could stand to emulate, however is that really the only thing keeping you focused on it? In other words, when does this become something like an example of the sunk-costs fallacy, where you keep investing in something that's no longer giving you returns--solely for the reason that you've already invested so much in it?

I'm NOT suggesting you just throw it all to the wind, but maybe examine what's your underlying reason for wanting to hold on to that sex life. Is it for 'you' plural or 'you' singular?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> You.....iron his shirts?
> 
> 
> Tell me more....


Does that get you hot Fozzy...want me to go into detail about how I organize his sock drawers too? That special way I fold his boxers and lovingly caress... You get the idea. 

:rofl:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

My marriage has improved a great deal since I first came here. I've learned to communicate better, to identify my feelings better, to claim and communicate my needs wants and desires better. 

On Mr. Pink's side, he has stopped being defensive as his first line of response. He has taken on board a lot of things I've asked him to. In fact up until two months ago we was just as affectionate as I could wish him to be, charming, funny, clever...all of those things that made me fall in love with him. 

But as is so often the case, a no action can be an action. If my nonaction (dwindling sex drive means I stop seeking sex) can be an action than his reaction is to also distance.

We talked about this for a bit yesterday and I showed him the thread up until NoraJanes response. I'll show him the rest of the thread later tonight and we'll talk more.

I think what would be helpful is for him to find ways to remember to show affection even when he is dog tired and stressed out. And I think that is something many people could benefit from. 

If you're tired and stressed what's your go to response? Do you seek mental escape with TV or a book? Do you seek physical comfort in affection from or with others? When you've got a lot on your mind how do you remember to be affectionate to your wife, especially if this isn't something that comes naturally.

I don't think he is doomed to always be distant and uncommunicative. I think he can learn to communicate, because he wants to, and I think he wants to.

ETA: my sex drive is important to me because it makes me feel good. I like being a highly sexual person. I like being a horny wh0re! Secondarily, my sex drive has kept my H and I connected enough to even try saving this marriage. My sex drive has brought me good things and its absence has brought me negative things.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> Anon,
> I'm not joking here.
> If you are in a state that allows recreational or medical use of Marijuana, you might want to try it. With your medical conditions, you would have absolutely NO problem getting a medical card.
> *Marijuana is a MONSTER aphrodisiac.*
> ...


Drugs don't work the same on everyone. What works for some of us has the opposite effect for others.


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## Ntsikzo (Apr 12, 2015)

Wow AP thanks for starting this thread. Wifey and I are not at that "age" yet, but all the responses and advice are very informative. As a guy I sometimes forget to be touchy and affectionate if I'm not looking for some action later on. 

So this thread is a real eye-opener


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Ntsikzo said:


> Wow AP thanks for starting this thread. Wifey and I are not at that "age" yet, but all the responses and advice are very informative. As a guy I sometimes *forget to be touchy and affectionate if I'm not looking for some action later on.*
> 
> So this thread is a real eye-opener


The biggest dumbest mistake that sooooo many men make its funny. The Catholic Church she include an admonishment about this in the 10 commandments!

Thou shalt not ignore your wife's need for affection until you want to get laid!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon, 
Does your husband take any testosterone replacement?
I know when I started taking it my sex drive went through the roof.
Since your husband is reading this, that might be a good option.
Also, Viagra, in my opinion, is an aphrodisiac in and of itself. I don't really need it, but I WANT it. VERY easy to get a prescription for it.

You might want to go to a female hormone replacement center, walk in and demand they increase your sex drive. 

If your husband knows you need physical attention, why doesn't he give it to you? You're a very open, non inhibited person. I'm sure he knows EXACTLY what you want and what you need. Certainly he is able.

Tell him he better get with the program cause there are a multitude of men that would grab you for themselves in seconds.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> Anon,
> Does your husband take any testosterone replacement?
> I know when I started taking it my sex drive went through the roof.
> Since your husband is reading this, that might be a good option.
> ...



He had his T checked a few years ago, 430 if I recall. Within the normal range. He does have a script for Cialis and on occasion he takes it, which I think is admirable because it gives him a sinus headache. Seems kinda counter productive to me, who would want sex with a sinus headache? I think the trouble is his weight and he is working on that.

I am over due for my yearly GYN so my next appointment will include a conversation about that.

Yes, he knows exactly what I want and need from him. He tries. He just forgets and falls back into his old patterns very easily. Unless I'm doing something to smack him out of it, his patterns will emerge stronger and longer.

Threats only work if they're real. He works better with a carrot than a stick.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon, 
I was much like you a few years back in that I was petrified that my sex drive was leaving me. I went to the doctor and basically said "fix this, NOW." Within days after starting the testosterone cream I was ripping my wifes clothes off. She was so shocked she suggested that I lower my dose because she could not keep up. Now, she's happy. Happy because I became a much more intense, better, and considerate lover. Her orgasms are much more intense and she's just generally a happier person. I believe the testosterone is the main reason why I changed. It's as if my sexuality went from a 50 year old man to a 20 year old in a week. I'm telling you and your husband, regardless of what his testosterone number is, at least have your husband try the stuff for a couple months.

I know of NO man that would not want to feel 30 years younger. It also helped me lose weight, feel stronger and generally more virile.
Testosterone is basically what makes a man a man.
What man would not like to feel more manly?

Get the f$cking prescription, some how, some way.

Edit:
I would go with VIAGRA. Comparing Cialis with Viagra is like comparing a little low calorie soft serve on a cone to a half gallon of the best cookies and cream ice cream. Viagra hits MUCH harder and faster.
I don't eat anything for 3 hours before I take it and wash down 
50mg with some orange juice. After about 20 minutes I feel this rush of sexual energy that hits me like nothing I have ever experienced. It's quite a rush!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I'll try again.

I would LOVE for him to have the vitality of a younger man. Come to think of it, I would love to have the vitality of a younger woman.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Before restoring vitality a man needs to restore attitude. Otherwise he will still be an old man full of vitality.... 

It's the attitude that makes a man a man, not chemicals


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I'll try again.
> 
> I would LOVE for him to have the vitality of a younger man. Come to think of it, I would love to have the vitality of a younger woman.


My wife is now going through menopause. The testosterone and Viagra keeps me persistent and patient. My wife is almost 100% responsive desire. With all this stuff fueling me, I can take my time and do whatever it takes to rock her world. If I have to, I'll go down on her for an hour. No matter what, by the end of our session, regardless of how she felt BEFORE the encounter, I guarantee you she'll feel better and younger AFTER we're done.
Get your husband testosterone and Viagra. He'll make YOU feel younger too.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

john117 said:


> Before restoring vitality a man needs to restore attitude. Otherwise he will still be an old man full of vitality....
> 
> It's the attitude that makes a man a man, not chemicals


Well, 
Then there must be a healthy dose of attitude in my testosterone cream with the Viagra chaser. What came first, the chicken or the egg?
Hell if I care. I got both.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

That's because you have the underlaying desire . At that point chemistry or not you're good to go.

I'm just objecting to the "testosterone is what makes a man a man" part of the program. I see way too many of my contemporaries whither away in old-man-land to know it's not testosterone but attitude.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

john117 said:


> That's because you have the underlaying desire . At that point chemistry or not you're good to go.
> 
> I'm just objecting to the "testosterone is what makes a man a man" part of the program. I see way too many of my contemporaries whither away in old-man-land to know it's not testosterone but attitude.


I cannot say it's one or the other. The chemicals are simply a tool to do a job with. If my goal is to dig a trench, I can have all the attitude in the world, but if I don't have the right tools, I'm wasting my time. My sex drive was without a doubt diminishing. If it were 30 years ago, I would be sh$t out of luck. In this day in age, I would be remiss if I did not avail myself to every possible option to correct a problem. I am simply suggesting to at least TRY everything available. You never know what might work UNLESS you try. The testosterone may indeed give enough zip to bring that attitude to the forefront. Sometimes we just need a little boost to get us where we need to be.

Seven years ago I remember watching the emergency heart surgeon stuffing some stents in me during my heart attack. He was telling me that I had a bunch of other arteries that were 50%, 60% blocked. I asked "why aren't you putting stents in those." He responded with "don't worry, the Lipitor will clear all that up.'
Again, 20 years ago, I would have been dead. Modern science has availed me modern medicine and now I feel better than I have in 20 years. I for one, will take advantage of EVERY possible medication, providing I see results. At the very least, I'm going to give it a try.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> That's because you have the underlaying desire . At that point chemistry or not you're good to go.
> 
> I'm just objecting to the "testosterone is what makes a man a man" part of the program. I see way too many of my contemporaries whither away in old-man-land to know it's not testosterone but attitude.


But John don't you think there is a complimentary reaction with testosterone? Obviously Viagara (yes I know a vasodilator is different from testosterone) doesn't creat desire but it allows desire to evidence itself. Testosterone doesn't create vitality in and of itself but it sure can allow vitality to evidence itself.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Agreed with all of this. Here in the context of the thread we are talking more mental block, lack of attitude, and lack of desire, not necessarily physical issues.

I take medicine for high blood pressure - definitely not a DIY fix. But I hate exercise so there isn't a pill in the world to make me go out jogging. So I bought a bicycle which really showed me what fun can be had out there, not for the physical benefit only but largely for the mental benefits. 

The people in this thread whose desire / attitude towards intimacy are below par need to have that moment of clarity first, then decide on a fix.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> But John don't you think there is a complimentary reaction with testosterone? Obviously Viagara (yes I know a vasodilator is different from testosterone) doesn't creat desire but it allows desire to evidence itself. Testosterone doesn't create vitality in and of itself but it sure can allow vitality to evidence itself.


EXACTLY.
It took what I had and enhanced it.
It took what was dormant and exposed it.
It took what I was apprehensive in showing and enabled it to overflow.
It took my awkwardness and turned it into an aggressive balls to the wall action.

Sometimes you just need a little confidence. That confidence turns into action and if that action produces positive results, the sky is the limit.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

john117 said:


> Agreed with all of this. Here in the context of the thread we are talking more mental block, lack of attitude, and lack of desire, not necessarily physical issues.
> 
> I take medicine for high blood pressure - definitely not a DIY fix. But I hate exercise so there isn't a pill in the world to make me go out jogging. So I bought a bicycle which really showed me what fun can be had out there, not for the physical benefit only but largely for the mental benefits.
> 
> The people in this thread whose desire / attitude towards intimacy are below par need to have that moment of clarity first, then decide on a fix.


I think Anon2 just needs a little boost. Men can sometimes feel overpowered by an HD woman. It might make him feel less of a man and therefore more apt to take a back seat on initiation. Anon Pink seems to be in the drivers seat (as it were).
These "chemicals" might give him what he needs to overcome and even surpass Anon Pink.

Although, that would take some doing


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

UMP testosterone is hard to get. Doctors aren't quick to prescribe it.

You can't just go out and pick it up at the store.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> Anon Pink seems to be in the drivers seat (as it were).
> 
> *These "chemicals" might give him what he needs to overcome and even surpass Anon Pink.*
> 
> Although, that would take some doing




Your lips to God's ears.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TheCuriousWife said:


> UMP testosterone is hard to get. Doctors aren't quick to prescribe it.
> 
> You can't just go out and pick it up at the store.


This is true, but if you can't have a conversation with your doctor in which you state your desire to make improvements in your life and feel strongly that testosterone would not harm and only help...

That being said, I'm not sure T therapy is even recommended for men on blood pressure and cholesterol lowering drugs.

Anyway, he tried a couple of years ago and I think it's worth another discussion with the doc. Unless of course he just doesn't want to go on T therapy and is placating me in order to avoid a conflict.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

While GP's can be reluctant to hand out testosterone, a lot of major cities have those hormone clinics where they specialize in that stuff. They'd be much easier to convince.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> While GP's can be reluctant to hand out testosterone, a lot of major cities have those hormone clinics where they specialize in that stuff. They'd be much easier to convince.


Why is that, Fozzy? Can testosterone be dangerous?

I'm always suspicious of "clinics" that are in business just to make money rather than provide healthy medical care.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I think it's a combination of bad literature informing GP's combined with the fact that they now have guys coming out of the woodwork asking for it (as a result of ads they hear from the clinics probably).

The "normal" range was established by averaging levels from men in their 20's and up in to their 80's, thus bringing down the average. So when a doc sees a level in the "normal" range, they're reluctant to prescribe.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> While GP's can be reluctant to hand out testosterone, a lot of major cities have those hormone clinics where they specialize in that stuff. They'd be much easier to convince.



And the heck with side effects and the like....


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

side effects are the best part of any medication!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> This is true, but if you can't have a conversation with your doctor in which you state your desire to make improvements in your life and feel strongly that testosterone would not harm and only help...
> 
> That being said, I'm not sure T therapy is even recommended for men on blood pressure and cholesterol lowering drugs.
> 
> Anyway, he tried a couple of years ago and I think it's worth another discussion with the doc. Unless of course he just doesn't want to go on T therapy and is placating me in order to avoid a conflict.



I am on SSRI (daily), blood pressure meds (daily), Lipitor (daily), Plavix (daily), Tramadol (4x day), Nexium (2x day), Ativan (daily), Aspirin (daily) AND I take testosterone cream (daily) AND Viagra.
I feel like a champ !! Seriously, I feel awesome. I have 3 doctors. One world (literally) renown cardiologist, a heart electrophysiologist and a GP. All of them are OK with the combo.

Edit:
I have had one SEVERE heart attack
3 heart oblations for Atrial Fibrillation 
7 Electro Cardioversions.
2 in situ melanomas
1 Basal cell cancer operation on my face. (scar looks cool )
If anyone should NOT be taking testosterone, it would be me.
No problem.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I'm on a simple blood pressure med, Propecia (gotta keep the Einstein hair), and copious amounts of liquor . The last is key!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

john117 said:


> I'm on a simple blood pressure med, Propecia (gotta keep the Einstein hair), and copious amounts of liquor . The last is key!


I'm a walking pharmacy with a very STIFF third arm :smthumbup:


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> This is true, but if you can't have a conversation with your doctor in which you state your desire to make improvements in your life and feel strongly that testosterone would not harm and only help...
> 
> That being said, I'm not sure T therapy is even recommended for men on blood pressure and cholesterol lowering drugs.
> 
> Anyway, he tried a couple of years ago and I think it's worth another discussion with the doc. Unless of course he just doesn't want to go on T therapy and is placating me in order to avoid a conflict.


There is a very good reason Testosterone isn't given out like candy, because it does have some very dangerous side effects. It shouldn't be given to those who have a normal decline in Testosterone due to aging. It's only meant to treat an actual medical condition of low T due to other reasons. The risk to benefit ratio isn't good. 

For what ever reason, people think all drugs are "safe", but they're not. If you can avoid medication, you absolutely should. Look at other ways to raise T if that is what you want him to do. You can naturally help raise T levels through exercise, plenty of sleep(not getting enough can lower levels), keeping a healthy weight, taking control of stress levels, etc. We're working on that for my husband.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> There is a very good reason Testosterone isn't given out like candy, because it does have some very dangerous side effects. It shouldn't be given to those who have a normal decline in Testosterone due to aging. It's only meant to treat an actual medical condition of low T due to other reasons. The risk to benefit ratio isn't good.
> 
> For what ever reason, people think all drugs are "safe", but they're not. If you can avoid medication, you absolutely should. Look at other ways to raise T if that is what you want him to do. You can naturally help raise T levels through exercise, plenty of sleep(not getting enough can lower levels), keeping a healthy weight, taking control of stress levels, etc. We're working on that for my husband.


Here's the way I figure it. I'm 53 and feel like I'm 30. I almost died 8 years ago. Even with all the boat load of meds I take, I get harder than hard, which is a miracle in and of itself. I mean, how much longer can I live? Maybe 15 - 20 years, Maybe.
I'll take every medication they can give me and be damn glad I can.

Before my heart attack at 44 years of age I took ZERO meds and felt like sh$t. Now, I take everything under the sun and feel awesome.

Will some medicine I take kill me sooner? I don't know, but at least I have a smile on my face.

Just my 2 cents.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Just like my Courvoisier


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

UMP said:


> Here's the way I figure it. I'm 53 and feel like I'm 30. I almost died 8 years ago. Even with all the boat load of meds I take, I get harder than hard, which is a miracle in and of itself. I mean, how much longer can I live? Maybe 15 - 20 years, Maybe.
> I'll take every medication they can give me and be damn glad I can.
> 
> Before my heart attack at 44 years of age I took ZERO meds and felt like sh$t. Now, I take everything under the sun and feel awesome.
> ...


The whole "Live fast, die young" thought process? I know many teens who think that way, but not a whole lot of adults who do. 

I would rather try to be around longer for my family instead of just throwing caution to the wind. Yes, the medication will have an effect on your life expectancy, as it alters your cells and the way your body reacts. They may help short term, but harm you in the long term. It's always better to look for natural ways to change things before medications(try to lose weight and eat healthy to lower blood pressure, instead of just popping a pill, etc.). I watched my step-grandpa highly medicate himself and he passed away at 66. My great-grandma avoided medications and kept active, and she passed away at 101.

I have a rare medical condition(birth defect) that has required a number of surgeries. There are many days that I'm in pain, but I avoid medication when I can. I look for alternative ways to deal with it. I've found different ways to help(hot/cold packs, acupuncture, certain exercises, massage, etc.) and feel so much better than when I was popping pills.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> The whole "Live fast, die young" thought process? I know many teens who think that way, but not a whole lot of adults who do.
> 
> I would rather try to be around longer for my family instead of just throwing caution to the wind. Yes, the medication will have an effect on your life expectancy, as it alters your cells and the way your body reacts. They may help short term, but harm you in the long term. It's always better to look for natural ways to change things before medications(try to lose weight and eat healthy to lower blood pressure, instead of just popping a pill, etc.).


"live fast, die young" What? I'm just trying to stay "alive". If it were not for the medication I take, I would be stone cold dead years ago. That's a fact.

I tried the holistic natural approach for cholesterol years ago. That ended with me in the hospital with my heart stopped.
No thanks.
I'll take the meds.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

UMP said:


> "live fast, die young" What? I'm just trying to stay "alive". If it were not for the medication I take, I would be stone cold dead years ago. That's a fact.
> 
> I tried the holistic natural approach for cholesterol years ago. That ended with me in the hospital with my heart stopped.
> No thanks.
> I'll take the meds.


You have a medical reason to take most medications, which is different. I'm talking about taking Testosterone or other medications just because people want to feel younger/like they used to. That's not what medications are for. They aren't supposed to be used that way.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> I'm on a simple blood pressure med, Propecia (gotta keep the Einstein hair), and copious amounts of liquor . The last is key!


John, you bicycle for regular exercise, right? Have you noticed a difference in your energy level? If so, at what point? Have you noticed an pay other...um differences? Don't want to intrude on your privacy there...l


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> You have a medical reason to take most medications, which is different. I'm talking about taking Testosterone or other medications just because people want to feel younger/like they used to. That's not what medications are for. They aren't supposed to be used that way.


As a 53 year old man who loves his dear wife and loves sexing her up, I will take anything that the doctors give me to help.
Honestly, sex with my wife is THE most pleasurable thing I do in life, bar none. If I can enhance that experience,(for both of us) even if it cuts some years off my life, I'm all in.

It's not like I have a clean bill of heath. Every day I get is gravy for me.

I'm not going to lie on my death bed thinking, "sh$t I wish hadn't wanted to F$ck my wife so much and taken testosterone and Viagra all those years"


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

UMP said:


> As a 53 year old man who loves his dear wife and loves sexing her up, I will take anything that the doctors give me to help.
> Honestly, sex with my wife is THE most pleasurable thing I do in life, bar none. If I can enhance that experience,(for both of us) even if it cuts some years off my life, I'm all in.
> 
> It's not like I have a clean bill of heath. Every day I get is gravy for me.
> ...


You have kids? 

I just think you're looking at things in a very short term manner, which I don't agree with. 

I almost died at 16(flat lined during surgery), so I get wanting to live life to the fullest, but I also don't want to do anything that can cut my life short. I want to watch my son grow up and grow old with my husband.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> That being said, I'm not sure T therapy is even recommended for men on blood pressure and cholesterol lowering drugs.
> 
> Anyway, he tried a couple of years ago and I think it's worth another discussion with the doc. Unless of course he just doesn't want to go on T therapy and is placating me in order to avoid a conflict.


I'm on blood pressure and cholesterol lowering drugs.

T therapy gave me more "want", Viagra more "can". 

Turns out that my wife's libido, which she was afraid was fading, is back stronger than ever. Use it or lose it.

True, clinics will give it out like candy, GPs are much more reluctant. Sometimes you've got to be involved in your own health decisions. Doctors don't actually know everything.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

norajane said:


> Why is that, Fozzy? Can testosterone be dangerous?
> 
> I'm always suspicious of "clinics" that are in business just to make money rather than provide healthy medical care.


I hate to break it to you, but all businesses exist to make money.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I hate to break it to you, but all businesses exist to make money.


That's not true. Non-profit organizations aren't there to make money, as most barely make ends meet, with many having to close as they just are not making it. 

Now big pharmacy has a bad reputation and much of that is with a good reason(although some is false). They make good money from getting people to ask for different drugs, one being testosterone replacement. I wouldn't go looking for it without a doctor overseeing the treatment.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I guess it all depends on your life philosophy. Is good enough good enough? For some the answer is absolutely. For others the answer is no, good enough is not good enough, they want great. I prescribe to the wanting great in life.

I also think those of us who want great, need to be balanced by the good enough spouse. A symbiosis of philosophies that keep the greatness from burning and the good enough from getting boring.

But sometimes, Geeshe sometimes it would be nice to switch it up!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> That's not true. Non-profit organizations aren't there to make money, as most barely make ends meet, with many having to close as they just are not making it.
> 
> Now big pharmacy has a bad reputation and much of that is with a good reason(although some is false). They make good money from getting people to ask for different drugs, one being testosterone replacement. I wouldn't go looking for it without a doctor overseeing the treatment.


Well, that'll teach me to be non-specific (I don't really consider non-profit enterprises to be businesses).

If non-profits are, by nature, better because they aren't trying to make money, why are health care costs rising so fast when 62% of hospitals are non-profit (and 20% are government owned)? Why would any for-profit hospitals exist (when, presumably, they're only about making money)? Mostly, being non-profit just removes the incentive to make operations more efficient.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> You have kids?
> 
> I just think you're looking at things in a very short term manner, which I don't agree with.
> 
> I almost died at 16(flat lined during surgery), so I get wanting to live life to the fullest, but I also don't want to do anything that can cut my life short. I want to watch my son grow up and grow old with my husband.


Yes, I have children, 3.
I have 3 great doctors looking after me. They are ALL agreeable with what I take. It's not a given that this stuff will kill me faster than life itself. The fact is, no body knows when.

A funny story: I had applied for a 500K life insurance policy. Insurance companies don't give out 500K to 44 year old men without looking into the their health. They actually sent someone to my office to do a full physical and requested all my medical records. They OK'd the policy and the day my insurance agent picked up my first payment, I had a heart attack TWO HOURS after I physically handed him the check. You cannot count on anything in life. I do my best. The rest is in Gods hands.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I guess it all depends on your life philosophy. Is good enough good enough? For some the answer is absolutely. For others the answer is no, good enough is not good enough, they want great. I prescribe to the wanting great in life.
> 
> I also think those of us who want great, need to be balanced by the good enough spouse. A symbiosis of philosophies that keep the greatness from burning and the good enough from getting boring.
> 
> But sometimes, Geeshe sometimes it would be nice to switch it up!


There are ways to get to great with less risks/side effects. It just takes some more work to get there, as there is more effort involved. It may be a lot easier to just go through weight loss surgery, but it's healthier to actually put in the work to exercise and eat right. Both ways get you to drop the pounds, but one way has more benefits/less risks. 

When my husband picked up jogging and went almost every day, it made a big difference in our marriage. He handled stress better, testosterone was up, he felt better physically, and I was more attracted to him(super sexy watching him go running with our son in the stroller - rawr ). I want great, but there are different ways of getting there.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I hate to break it to you, but all businesses exist to make money.


Yes, but I'd be far more willing to pay an endocrinologist to mess around with my hormones than I would be for a "clinician" in some storefront testosterone mill.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> John, you bicycle for regular exercise, right? Have you noticed a difference in your energy level? If so, at what point? Have you noticed an pay other...um differences? Don't want to intrude on your privacy there...l



I usually ride 12-16 miles a day at 10-12 mph (a pretty leisurely pace). 25 or more on weekends - each day. I always have lots of energy so it's not like cycling would reduce my energy. Biggest difference has been mental clarity - I like to simply enjoy the sights and sounds of the bike paths. Our city has lots of bike only paths where one encounters no vehicles so I can really unwind.

That's key. When I come home I'm beat but recover quickly. I drink a lot of coffee so energy wise I'm always chipper 

In terms of - ehem - side effects, not much. First few months one comes back with numbness that is quite annoying, but proper fitting of the bike, posture, and clothing help.

Fwiw my wife rides with me and the extra dopamine hasn't done anything so....


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> There are ways to get to great with less risks/side effects. It just takes some more work to get there, as there is more effort involved. It may be a lot easier to just go through weight loss surgery, but it's healthier to actually put in the work to exercise and eat right. Both ways get you to drop the pounds, but one way has more benefits/less risks.
> 
> When my husband picked up jogging and went almost every day, it made a big difference in our marriage. He handled stress better, testosterone was up, he felt better physically, and I was more attracted to him(super sexy watching him go running with our son in the stroller - rawr ). I want great, but there are different ways of getting there.


I really appreciate your train of thought and I know exactly where you are coming from. However, I could exercise, lose weight, eat right, (all, which I do)
Nothing, I repeat NOTHING will give you the boost that testosterone and Viagra give. (especially at my age)

My age and health are also a factor. I used to be anti meds, BIG time. When I started having all my health problems and realized that these meds were what was KEEPING me alive, I changed my thought process. I now see medication as an opportunity that is given me. I don't take things willy nilly. I do speak to professionals, do research and make my own decisions.
Next to Lipitor, I will say that testosterone and Viagra have been the most beneficial and exceeded all my expectations.

Will I pay a price for those decisions? Maybe yes, maybe no.
All I do know is that I feel fantastic and am enjoying life to its fullest.

What more can I ask for?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I just googled T therapy.

Is testosterone replacement therapy safe? Take a look at the latest evidence in the February 2014 Harvard Men's Health Watch - Harvard Health


Seems the jury is still out and evidence is contradictory on whether the health side effects of T therapy are harmful or not.

A07, of course you are right. Diet and exercise are vital for vitality and people shouldn't "take a pill" when there are other things they can do to alleviate symptoms or suffering. But pills can and should be used in conjunction with those other things. If my spine or pelvis are acting up, doing PT and stretching will help a little but also taking the ibuprofen and muscle relaxers help more. However, T therapy is not really something you can try. My understanding is that once you begin with T therapy you have to continue because your body makes less and less naturally as a result of the synthetic testosterone.

So, Buddy and UMP, if the zombie apocalypse comes you guys are a gonna in terms of boners.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> So, Buddy and UMP, if the zombie apocalypse comes you guys are a gonna in terms of boners.


Being that zombies are corpses, wouldn't they always be stiff?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

:rofl:




Faithful Wife said:


> Being that zombies are corpses, wouldn't they always be stiff?


Badda bing!


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## Seasong (Mar 1, 2012)

Hi,

I also take muscle relaxers, and over the years have been on different ones due to side affects. Not all of them caused sexual side affects.

I also use an rx compound cream that has muscle relaxers and two other ingredients ground up and it works well. You could ask your neuro if that could be an option for you. Helps with pain but not as many side affects.

I'm also on narcotics, as well as other meds that can interfere with my already limited sex life. When we do make love we both want to enjoy it. I have learned how to hold off on certain meds, but it makes for a narrow window so that's where the compound cream helps. 

I have a neuro- degenerative disease, and a past history of spinal issues. I am in my upper 40's and even though my brain and body don't connect very well anymore, I still think about sex a lot. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with my husband. He has learned to read me well. My brain is fine, by the way. 

I hope you find meds that work for you.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Seasong said:


> Hi,
> 
> I also take muscle relaxers, and over the years have been on different ones due to side affects. Not all of them caused sexual side affects.
> 
> ...


Hi Seasong, that's great information to have. Thanks so much for posting! 

Do you have difficulty reaching orgasm as a result of the meds? If you hold off on some meds, do you have pain that bothers you enough to not want sex or pain that prevents positions or a full body response? I arch my back in response and in certain positions and if I start in pain I prohibit myself from fully responding.


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## Seasong (Mar 1, 2012)

Hi Anon Pink,
Yes!! After the last med add on, I kind of gave up trying to "chase" an orgasm. That was last September! Oh, we tried. But there was much going on so I opted to just enjoy the closeness of intercourse, which still felt good on the inside. It seemed to bother him more than me back then. I just didn't want to give up on sex but truly, my desire was responsive. 

I rarely comment here but do read, and started doing other research after awhile, wondering if it was my disease, meds or could a vibrator help. I had a small on that a gyno had suggested and it was annoying. I decided to wait until after I had a procedure done since by Nov-Jan I was recovering and extra pain dragged on.

I'm still on that same med, plus many others but stopped taking another seemingly innocent one.... Zantac and the level of how I thought about sex and a reaction between my legs came back. It was still not enough to get me there. But I knew with some extra help I probably could!

Maybe doing all the research helped too, as I wanted to find a vibrator. One that I could trust my husband to hold, for external use only, since I can't hold on to it more than a minute or two. I kept debating whether to ask for help here but in the end we found
the Embrace body wand massager. The handle doesn't vibrate too much and it's lightweight but got me there.

That was just about a month ago and my husband actually laughed and cried at the same time. I had to time it so I didn't have my pain med or muscle relaxer much in my system, and before it was time to take other meds that are also libido killers. Orgasms aren't quite as strong anymore but I had two great ones since then and then my health kind of got in the way so hopefully soon. This wand is awesome.

I can't arch my back but tuck a goose down throw pillow kind of lop-sided under my butt. 

The compound cream helps. I also get lidoderm patches.
Have you ever tried biofreeze gel? Non prescription but I used to use it a lot.

I hope this makes sense!!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Seasong said:


> Hi Anon Pink,
> Yes!! After the last med add on, I kind of gave up trying to "chase" an orgasm. That was last September! Oh, we tried. But there was much going on so I opted to just enjoy the closeness of intercourse, which still felt good on the inside. It seemed to bother him more than me back then. I just didn't want to give up on sex but truly, my desire was responsive.
> 
> I rarely comment here but do read, and started doing other research after awhile, wondering if it was my disease, meds or could a vibrator help. I had a small on that a gyno had suggested and it was annoying. I decided to wait until after I had a procedure done since by Nov-Jan I was recovering and extra pain dragged on.
> ...


Thanks again Seasalt. Do you have MS? Is that why you had difficulty finding a vibrator that you could hold? I'm so glad you shared your story. It really helped to remind me to put things in perspective. I'm sorry for your troubles but I'm so glad you've felt comfortable sharing here. 

Congrats on getting that orgasm! I bet your H was very happy, as were you! I'm not a vibrator gal, too intense or it just causes numbness. Although maybe I should have brought out my magic wand "massager" and given it another chance. 

I think chronic pain is a complication to having, keeping or maintaining a great sex life, or great enough. And it's damned annoying!

I've tried the lidoderm patches but they were to numb the horrible itching "bugs under the skin" sensation. They worked okay for that but not so much for bone pain. They're super expensive too!

Had my neuro appointment today and I'm going to stop the muscle relaxers except for rescue. Upped the dose of a different med that works well enough on nerve pain but for me, doesn't interfere with sexual sensation, lyrica. The spinal injection has helped a good bit.

I'm really glad you posted. There have been some threads, not too many and all from husband's, about chronic pain and sex. I hope you stick around because you would be a great contributor on those threads and others.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

In bed at night: 

Whether watching: Mad Men, The Good Wife or Nashville
Or reading mostly quietly

We are either holding hands or lying pretzled together...

That's a good 1-2 hours of contact almost every night. 






Anon Pink said:


> My marriage has improved a great deal since I first came here. I've learned to communicate better, to identify my feelings better, to claim and communicate my needs wants and desires better.
> 
> On Mr. Pink's side, he has stopped being defensive as his first line of response. He has taken on board a lot of things I've asked him to. In fact up until two months ago we was just as affectionate as I could wish him to be, charming, funny, clever...all of those things that made me fall in love with him.
> 
> ...


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## Muse1976 (Apr 25, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Questions:
> 
> What suggestions can you offer for me and offer for my husband!?
> 
> Has anyone else been through this polar shift of sex drive and how did you handle it?


!. Your husband is just going to have to step up to the plate and carry the load for a while until you find out the cause of your responsive desire and can find you old drive. I think you have received a lot of good responses. Medications can wreck your drive, but so can pain.

2. Yes. My drive has dropped to the lowest it has ever been. I fell like its nonexistent, and it sucks. It makes you question everything.

I feel for you and hope you find the answers to get your drive back.


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## Muse1976 (Apr 25, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Questions:
> 
> What suggestions can you offer for me and offer for my husband!?
> 
> Has anyone else been through this polar shift of sex drive and how did you handle it?


1. I am going to echo some of the other posters and suggest that its a medicine induced problem. You have gotten very good advise on this already. The other suggestion is that your husband is going to have to step up to the plate and "carry the load" for a while until you find your desire again. That's just what we have to do when our spouses are in a bad spot.

2. Yes. This will be the second time.
First was wife and birth control (DEPO). A lovely and stunning woman went from high drive to NO drive. I didn't help thing by being an idiot about it.

Second time is me. The wife has mentioned the lack of initiation and with her help I realized that it not what it should be, and I am looking for solutions.


Hope you find it! Sorry you're in this situation.


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