# Was it really an EA?



## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Very long, but need help. Have been reading for a while, wish it had been sooner.

Wife doesn't have any real close friends, had a horrible childhood with child abuse from mom, sexual abuse from at least one step dad, heavy drug use in teen years, etc.

Wife finds a guy she new 20 years ago on facebook and myspace in early May. He knew her during the rough years. He is in Florida we are in Oklahoma. They begin talking on the sites and texting back and forth. I am unaware of this contact. May 22, we are on family vacation in a hotel room with our two kids. In the morning I plug in her phone to charge and find the end of a sexually oriented text stream. She says it is just a friend no big deal doesn't mean anything. I hate confrontation, I try to blow it off and play cool husband. I can't stand not knowing what is going on so I begin checking her email and face book. Every questionable thing I found was explained away and I half believed it. There were some pdf's sent as well of a sexual nature, but they were just "erotic stories". Although one of them was more specific in nature and mentioned them exploring their fantasies together and him imagining being "drained by her". His marriage is not that great from what my wife has told me. I truly feel he is in love with my wife.

After she learned I was checking on her accounts, he encouraged her to set up a G-Mail account and not tell me about it. I have never been able to get on the G-mail, but did find out about it. After learning they were talking on the phone I demanded that she not talk to him on the phone, but said the other contact could continue. Phone usage went up by about 320 minutes in may. Even though half of June she was not supposed to be talking to him, usage was 1,032 minutes. She says the sexual stuff (texts and pdf's had stopped, but I can't verify it. She clears her phone records daily. Text usage went from 584 to 3,389, to 2,461 (i found she had installed Text Free on her phone).

In 12 years of marriage, she had never paid to send a package to anyone I run them through our business. She sent him a package from the post office without my knowledge. I later found out it was a book.

Over two months, stuff would pop up, I would freak out, she would explain it away and I would buy it. I kept promising to stay out of her stuff, but I just couldn't do it.

I had her read about emotional affairs and she said well this is not the same. She didn't really plan their time together. She didn't want to spend time with him instead of me. Our relationship is great in every other way except this one issue. Our sex life has been the best ever and did not fall off once this problem started.

Saturday, I found he had sent her a picture of a hotel room. I was examining it trying to figure out the details on it. She stood behind me and watched for about 5 minutes while I did this. In her eyes it was my fault, I could have just closed the picture and not obsessed. This lead to an ultimatum. Facebook only, no texts, no phone, no pictures. She agreed. I also said I would stay out of her stuff one more time.

That night she was going out with friends. I got on her facebook and saw a conversation where he asked her for pictures from the bar and she told him to text her on her phone. She sent me one picture from the bar. I asked her the next day if she had any other pictures I could see. She said no.

I was home sick yesterday and checked the computer while she was working out in the garage. Find where she had sent him some pictures on Monday. I found she had googled skype and looked into it. I also found on her phone where she talked to him Saturday Night. I asked her if she had sent him pictures she said I don't think so. Told her I knew she had and also that she had talked to him on the phone. She said she talked to him to tell him what we had decided on Saturday. I told her she had to choose him or me. We couldn't go on anymore with her hiding contact with him and lying to me and me digging in her stuff. We would end up divorced if it continues so she needs to make that choice now. She asked you'll just leave. I said no you will, you are the one making the choice in this situation not me. She said me and the kids would have to find an apartment, I said no you will leave them with me. She said she didn't like me threatening her with the kids. I said you are the one making the choice here and if it ends up in divorce court we both know that I will get screwed. She will get 2/3 of my money and the kids and I will have squat.

She tells me of course I will choose you. She also tells me that this sucks because she doesn't have any friends. She tells me that she thought we had it ironed out on Saturday. She tells me he wanted her to get the email address so they could stay in touch no matter what happened. I tell her the lying and hiding crossed a line. I still think it was an EA and the amount of contact proves that to me. Am I wrong? Would anyone else have let the contact continue? What is next?


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

WAY inappropriate. I can tell you're a newbie. Gather some evidence and save it. You may need it in court. She can't get rid of this guy. She's addicted to him. Possibly in love. It is WAY bad. Protect yur finances and legal options. Talk to a lawyer. Protect yourself. 

DO NOT listen to her excuses. There are NO EXCEPTIONS to 100% no contact. She
s crossed a line that prevents her from being "just friends" with him.

Oh, and I forgot your main question. Yes, this is a TEXTBOOK emotional affair.


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## Chet8625 (Jul 13, 2010)

Yikes. Way over the line.

But what is missing in her life with you that would allow her to do this? 

No friends? Didn't she go to a bar with friends?

I know you were being a nice guy trying to compromise with her but I think your hard line stance is appropriate at this time.


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## definitelynotme (May 4, 2010)

I think sometimes the term "emotional affair" is tossed around way too lightly, but absolutely, yes, this is 100% inappropriate, and she needs to cut of ALL contact with this guy. Not even a Christmas card, seriously. She may need professional help to do so.

That said, you have GOT to stop getting into her phone, e-mail, Facebook, etc. I know you have every reason not to trust her, but that is always going to be a temptation to you anytime she says or does anything remotely suspicious, and maybe even if she doesn't, even if she cuts him off entirely immediately. The sooner you stop, the better.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Yes I agree, EA is tossed around too lightly, it's the prelude to a sexual relationship she's hooked and cares about nothing else, she is back in her past, but like you said, you avoid confrontation, so did I and it was a mistake, not in so much at finding out, but throughout the relationship, she knew you'd just blow it off, problem is, she doesn't care now, and you can't change her 'feelings'(at the moment) no matter what anyone say, but there will come a time when she will change, how long?, who knows, but it will come.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

She is having an EA. That gives you every right to snoop. It is now up to her to earn your trust again. The sooner the two of you see a marriage counselor the better. 

Next, both of you need to ditch your FB and MySpace accounts. Those things are bad news for the married couple.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I feel for you Okie, you’ve some ****e to go through mate. I too accepted my wife’s “explanations”. Then I thought she was “in denial” but later I came to realise she’s just a liar.

I reckon you've already proved to yourself that your wife's a liar. It takes some acceptance that, to let it really sink in and come to terms with the consequences.

If you feel the need to change anything about yourself, change your boundaries.

Be prepared to believe the unbelievable. Make good use of this forum and the people on it. Loads of experience here, much needed support and different ways of doing things.

Bob


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

By no means should you stop snooping. You began snooping because she gave you reason. You continued because she kept giving you reasons. Please don't allow anyone to convince you or guilt you into foolishly sitting there while your wife runs you over. It is absurd for anyone to suggest it. You will snoop until such time as you feel comfortable that she is not lying, sneaking, contacting him. Your urge to snoop will dissipate as you no longer find evidence of her infidelity. You will gradually learn to trust her again. In the meanwhile, continue protecting yourself.

Check out the Surviving Infidelity section at MarriageBuilders.com. This will guide you where to go from here.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

This is a full on EA and you need to break this ASAP.

Have a further very clear conversation with your wife, let her know this in not I am a just friends story, he is playing her and will ultimatley aim to destoy your marriage and her just for his own pleasure

Detail the time she spent communicatiing with him, show her how deceptive she has become with his encouragement. You have to get her to agree and want to cut off all contact with him. If needs be get hold of his wife, mother, sister etc.. and out him.

As per your side make sure you let everyone who cares know that she is deep in an Emotianal Affiar and that you are working with her help help solve this.

Some related threads from this site:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...guilty-dont-know-what-do-next.html#post168274

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ns-what-i-will-say-om-when-i-return-work.html


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...i-keep-laying-my-soul-out-trusting-her-2.html


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

I thank God everyday that he was in Florida and there was no chance of them getting together.

She has blocked him from facebook and told him that they are to have no further contact. I told her last night that I thought we should go to counseling, this is the second time I had mentioned counseling since this started. She said why this is all her fault and she doesn't need anyone else to tell her so. She recognizes she should never have lied to me. I told her I still thought maybe there was something wrong, something missing that he must have been giving her that I wasn't and we needed to find out what it was. She has always told me that she thinks we have a great marriage and she still does despite this. Before this came up, even when she was talking to him without my knowledge, I would say it was the happiest I have ever been in my marriage. Our kids are 8 and almost 10, we are finally being able to go out together and do many of the things we did when we first got together. Everyone else we know would say we have a great marriage.

She asked me if I really thought there was a chance she would choose him. I said very slight, but it didn't matter I couldn't go on like it was. We were hurting each other too much and too often. I told her I kept hoping she would see what this was doing to me and our marriage and end the contact, she said she kept hoping I would see it wasn't what I thought it was (here is where the absolute truth and transparency I asked for could have helped, but she would not give me the g-mail password). Everything she did in her eyes was done to try to protect my feelings and attempt to keep from losing what in her eyes is only a friend.

She is surely in denial about what it was. I have no doubts that the OM has been using her as a substitute for everything wrong in his marriage I just don't know how she couldn't see it for what it is. She thought she was helping him by being his friend. I had once said if she had told me at the start she had found an old friend and they had started talking it might have been different, but I have to admit finding the text in the hotel room would have started the same process or the sheer volume of contact would have made me uncomfortable. She doesn't know about the 1000 minutes last month I got that bill (company bill not personal) after the ultimatum. Does she need to know? Will she recognize in time as the fog lifts and withdrawals go away that it was more than she thought?

The only loose ends would be a No Contact letter which I know she will see as unnecessary, her Myspace account still has him as a friend (it is how she told him our decision) as far as I know and the gmail account is open as well. I am going to ask for the gmail account to be closed or deleted instead of getting the password, I should be able to verify that by sending an email, if closed it should bounce back.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Sounds to me that she’s keeping a foot in your camp and a foot in the OMs camp. As yet she’s not sure which camp to move fully into.

Bob


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

A no contact letter is a must, delete him from my space, yes a compromise is delete the gmail account, with you present – do not need to see the contents. Plus….

delete his contact details from her phone – record his number for your own future use. 

A further possible option if you wish is to obtain a new number for her if not bar his number, you can stop calls and text messages from being received and you can stop calls being made to his phone – speak to your vendor for openness I would say get your wife to buy into this

I would not normally say touch the phones but she is in denial and until there is acceptance then the pain will continue. 

It also let her know how serious you are.


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## hardcase119 (Jul 21, 2010)

I have to say that I agree with Susan2010. I would even go as far as to buy a tracking software that records key strokes to assure yourself that this has stopped. Once your spouse has broken your trust it has to be earned again. If an ultimatum has been given and it continues, then there is a serious problem because the marriage obviously is not as important as this other person. Once you have regained that trust, your "checking up" will completely stop.


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## helpplease (May 20, 2010)

My wife was in a EA for 3 months before I found out. They can have an incredible hold on people. I am now 5 months out from when her EA started and it is still very difficult to deal with. 
A no contact letter is a must also, if she doesn't agree, that is a big problem. Also I hope you can see some emotional remorse from her. It was 5 weeks before my wife actually would show emotion on how sorry she was and wished it never happened. We are still in counseling.
You certainly cannot be blind to the possibility that he will never visit. I would hope not but when the emotions are high, people will do some crazy things.
You will eventually have to stop or severely reduce checking the communication devices, this will eat you up mentally, running to check what was said or what she did all the time. 
Bottom line is this: if she wants to contact OM or anyone for that matter, technology has made it very easy for people to do it and very difficult to track when it come to data only communication through cell phones. 

I truly feel for you and the pain you feel. I have been through every emotion under the sun.

Good Luck!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Here's a thought for you Okie,

You posted the question "Was it really an EA". It's past tense, sounds as though you've put it behind you. But you haven't.

Maybe the question "Is it really an EA" would work better for you at this point in time. It's a present and future oriented question, which sounds more applicable.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted?

Problem is the horse is still in the stable in body but it’s heart and mind is gone into the world of make believe and fantasy. What’s known is the horse has proven itself to be disloyal and deceitful, not good qualities, values, for a successful marriage.

It’s him or me. Which one do you chose? Tell me now, I need to know. If it’s him, take your body as well as your heart and mind out of my stable.

Bob


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would also:
install a keylogger on her computer
contact the phone company so she can't finagle a new phone or a way to keep you from seeing her charges
call the OM yourself and 'remind' him that this has stopped and if you find out he ever contacts her again, you'll be paying him a visit.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

It might already be too late, since there are severe issues well before an EA/PA even takes place, something in the marriage is amiss, you need to also do some self-reflecting as to why she would do it, honest self-reflecting at that, as has been posted many times before, the EA/PA is just the result of an unhappy marriage with both spouses having a major part in it, as Hunt Brown as stated 'let go and understand' that is right, it's just humanly improbable to NOT want to know why, at least in the beginning, after awhile, you'll slowly see why, and also the role you played, it doesn't make the EA/PA right, but at least you'll have UNDERSTANDING, just not right away...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Until the affair is confirmed over, the BS has a duty to snoop to know when to step in and fight the affair.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I think in many instances around here waterboarding is totally acceptable.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

I am willing to examine myself and my contribution, but mostly see this as growing out of boredom from a stay at home mom finding an old friend to talk to during the middle of the day and it getting way out of control. She recognizes how badly it has hurt me and has shown remorse for it especially the lying, she just doesn't think it was an EA. I have suggested counseling and she is not interested. She tells me all the time that her friends are jealous of what a good husband I am compared to theirs. The passion in our marriage has been at a point that it was not even at when we were newlyweds since she changed to Cymbalta for her depression early this year the old medication was a problem. I am willing to work to make myself better as much as I can without her input. I have lost some weight and am in the best shape of my life physically since this started. Spiritually I am trying to work with a breathing and meditation program. Any suggestions on specific books I should look into for relationship help knowing I am doing without her input?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

His Needs Her Needs


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Ordered both of these from Amazon this morning.

Talked with the wife about 1000 cell phone minutes last month, Myspace, and Gmail this morning. She had no idea how she used that many minutes, I checked her phone and his contact info was not there any longer. I was given the password to gmail and she said she would look into deleting the account, all of the emails had been deleted already (verified this) . Said she never goes to Myspace (she was on there yesterday) so she didn't think about deleting him from there but she would now. She says there are no other email accounts anywhere and I haven't seen any evidence of any over the last two months.

I told her I really didn't want to bring these things up, but I didn't want them weighing on my mind and coming out later. I told her I didn't want her to think I was going to be in her business forever. I told her I wouldn't bring this issue up again unless I thought there was something important we needed to discuss, but that if she needed to talk to me about it at any time I am open. She was crying and said "I don't want you to think I am crying for him, I am crying over the friendship, what you are going through won't be forever but my friendship will be gone forever"

If I tried, I don't think I could convince her that it was anything more than "just friendship", so I don't think it is worth the effort. I just really hope in time she sees it once the fog clears.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Let her read His Needs Her Needs when you're done. It will help her see things more clearly.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Okie said:


> If I tried, I don't think I could convince her that it was anything more than "just friendship", so I don't think it is worth the effort.


Maybe you didn't try reminding her of this. I'm trying to remember the last time I've traded erotic stories with a female who was "just a friend". Hmmm...Let's see now...Umm...Oh, wait...No, that's not right...Uhhh...Nope, cant think of any.

"There were some pdf's sent as well of a sexual nature, but they were just "erotic stories". Although one of them was more specific in nature and mentioned them exploring their fantasies together and him imagining being "drained by her"".


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Good on you.

You still need to wrap up the loose ends, a *no-contact letter *needs to be sent, better if she writes it, you read it, she signs it, scan it in and email to him.

Confirm for your self the gmail account is deleted do not let it wait,

Lastly you need to be clear about this friendship as mentioned … 

"There were some pdf's sent as well of a sexual nature, but they were just "erotic stories". Although one of them was more specific in nature and mentioned them exploring their fantasies together and him imagining being "drained by her.

I am inclined to show her the pdf’s – is this what you send to a friend so lets send this to all your Facebook contacts and see how these friends react. Main intent with this is to let the message sink in that this is an EA. This is your call, could be the fog and when she is over him she may have a different view. 

Time to repair the damage done … Best you start soon

Lots of luck


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

You wife is going to be in a world of pain.

I suggest you do some searches on recovering from an affair so as to provide the right support and guidance and help her though this what is to her going to be a very difficult period. Perhaps someone on this forum can provide some advice.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

If it is at all possible, this is the time for a vacation, just you two. And I don't mean, "Hey if you have extra money laying around this would be nice." I mean "The cost of a divorce is $10k to $100k+ and you lose half the time with your children, lose your house, lose your wife, and lose the hopes and dreams you've been building. If you do not want to lose all that, then FIND A WAY to get away with her!" 

Here's why. 

Right now, you two have negative associations with each other. You ignored her, controlled her, made her feel lonely...in her head. She cheated on you, lied to you, betrayed you...in your head. To her right now it feels like she is giving up someone fun who made her feel intoxicating, so she can go to someone who made her feel ignored, controlled and lonely. So yep--she'll be in a world of hurt! AND if she isn't thrilled to be back with you, loving, and apologetic, you will feel like she doesn't really want to be there! It's a recipe for disaster AND a recipe for adding more negative associations. She/He = negative

Soooo...in order to reconnect and start associating some positive with each other, now is a more than good time for a vacation. And I mean, you and her, alone together, going to a place you both love, doing something you both love. This is not "down time doing separate things" nor is it the Spanish Inquisition about her affair or relationship talks. This is you and her, at that cute little motel you always wanted to stay at, for 4 days (a long weekend) going to that buffet you always wanted to go to and never did, and getting tickets to see Jimmy Buffett together (because you've both said you wish you could go and never did). Get it? Then, in her new return to home, rather than returning to the guy who made her feel ignored, controlled and lonely--she's starting with the guy who took her to that CUTE motel, to the prime rib buffet, and to Jimmy Buffett. She/He = POSITIVE . And that is a building block on which you can start rebuilding a positive marriage. 

So make this happen. Do not say "We don't have time...don't have money...I can't get time off..." etc. Those are excuses. You need to do this to save your family, so do it!


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Or you can just go find a new girlfriend of your own. That's what I'd do.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Okie:

Did she do the no contact letter.

You may think that you may want to leave it, don’t to many have been hurt because this did not happen and the contact resumed again..


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

I got home from work Friday to an angry and hurt wife. She had gotten onto Amazon to look at a cookie cutter we had just ordered. (She has a side business making cookies. I have provided all the supplies.) I didn't think about it when I ordered "His Needs, Her Needs" and "getting the love you want" the day before, but if she needs stuff she gets on our Amazon account. She asked if I had ordered any new books lately. I said yes. She said "I am not going to spend the next 20 years wearing a scarlet letter for something I didn't even f***ing do". I said they are not for you. They are for me. She asked why do you need them? I said I still think there may have been needs of yours I have not been meeting and I want to make sure I am doing everything I can to be the best husband I can be. It took a while, but she settled down and we ended up having a really great weekend.

Wisp - We haven't done the "no contact" letter, but all the suspicious behavior has stopped. I don't have any hard evidence I can show her. She would still insist it didn't mean what I thought it meant. I have access to everything I need to verify as much as I can. I really feel like bringing anything up without any additional slip up or action on her part could be really bad.

cody5 - I started thinking of finding myself someone else as well and realized it was not what I wanted.

Affaircare - I know they sound like excuses, but getting away right now is not possible. We booked a 6 day trip over new years to a resort in Mexico for a friends birthday right at two weeks ago. That and having to put on a new roof in May really sapped our savings, we don't have any credit cards. We have some big milestones coming up over the next few months, our 12th anniversary in August. I am surprising her with a swimming with dolphins adventure for when we are in Mexico something she has always dreamed of. Her 38th birthday in September, my 40th in October, we always have a huge Halloween party for our kids.

My books should be here today. I am going to work on myself.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

“I got home from work Friday to an angry and hurt wife. She had gotten onto Amazon to look at a cookie cutter we had just ordered. (She has a side business making cookies. I have provided all the supplies.) I didn't think about it when I ordered "His Needs, Her Needs" and "getting the love you want" the day before, but if she needs stuff she gets on our Amazon account. She asked if I had ordered any new books lately. I said yes. She said "I am not going to spend the next 20 years wearing a scarlet letter for something I didn't even f***ing do". I said they are not for you. They are for me. She asked why do you need them? I said I still think there may have been needs of yours I have not been meeting and I want to make sure I am doing everything I can to be the best husband I can be. It took a while, but she settled down and we ended up having a really great weekend.”

You handled the above well



I like the NC option as it tells both parties that it is over. No chance or limited chance of going back. How did or does the OM know it is over, has she told him somehow or is he sitting waiting.

“I am surprising her with a swimming with dolphins adventure for when we are in Mexico” – some way off but she will love this.

All the best keep posting, suspect your wife is still tender and will be for a while.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

She had sent him a message last week telling him it was over. Hadn't seen the details till today when I received reason to look. (charge on checking account to post office). I didn't see the message out, but saw part of the reply. 1st one "If you are really going to try with Tim, it would be a good idea to get marriage counseling. A relationship where one spouse forbids the other from feeling or thinking something won't work for those girls for very long". Didn't see Wife's response, but that was followed with "I meant it when I said poor G poor Tim. I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable. I am sorry."

He sent her a message on G-Mail today inviting her to be in his professional network on LinkedIn. I don't even know what the hell that is. I now have a reason to ask for the no-contact letter and am going to do so this evening. I am also going to remind her that this is why I would like the account closed along with him blocked on My-Space if he is not yet. Whether she has contacted him or not, he does not seem willing to let her go without some more effort. Wish me luck.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Indeed use those two extracts as the supporting reasons

Linkedin is a site where "professionals" in various industries connect, it uses an email address as a login.. Don’t let her join.

And he is dissing you using nice words (like you are the third party) with her knowledge, if she says not where are her mails to him. If it was so innocent WHY delete the snet and received mails. The mails suggest she has told him something of your relationship. 


Suggest you prep for the long haul this guy is deceptive and will play on your wife.

EA's take a long time to break, be patient

Hopefully you read this post before you speak to your wife. ....Be very calm , no anger , this is a tender time for your wife and she needs to be on your side for this.


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## aedilis (Jun 28, 2010)

Okie said:


> Ordered both of these from Amazon this morning.
> 
> Talked with the wife about 1000 cell phone minutes last month, Myspace, and Gmail this morning. She had no idea how she used that many minutes, I checked her phone and his contact info was not there any longer. I was given the password to gmail and she said she would look into deleting the account, all of the emails had been deleted already (verified this) . Said she never goes to Myspace (she was on there yesterday) so she didn't think about deleting him from there but she would now. She says there are no other email accounts anywhere and I haven't seen any evidence of any over the last two months.
> 
> ...


I'd like to weigh in on this. First thing. You can actually log into Gmail and check in the Trash, Sent Mail, and look for other folders. Sometimes people like to keep mementos that they can't stand to leave so they'll forward those messages onto another private account.

As for the crying and that statement, yeah man, she's totally trying to project that guilt onto you. Making you sound like the bad guy who is taking away her only friend. Justification so that when she doesn't change and you do pull the trigger on separation, that she can tell herself that it was all your fault.

I know you might not want to hear this, but seriously, you need to man up. You need to take ownership for your life and your children's lives. You have given this woman chance upon chance upon chance and all she has done is act like a teenage girl whose parents are being too strict with her. 

She clearly needs to see someone about these issues. You clearly need to do the same. Here is what I would do. I would lay down the law in a not-so-harsh way:

- Absolutely 100% no contact period with the OM. You both will sit down on a speakerphone and contact this person and let them know that if there is even 1 more contact, you will contact the OM's spouse and inform her of what has been going on.
- Inform her that this relationship, as it stands, it very unhealthy. For you, for your kids, and for your wife. Let her know that you still love her and that you are dedicated to getting things back on track. However, for yours and your children's well-being, you will not stick around for someone who doesn't wish to be helped.

- Stick to your guns. Go to counseling. Take the kids if you think they are showing signs of depression.

- Show you are serious. Go to see an attorney to discuss divorce options. Let her know you are going to be doing this. Let her know that there are consequences to her behaviour.

I know it's EXTREMELY difficult to say these things and even more to stick by it, but you have to realize that sometimes people who are in a fog of depression and living in a fantasy EA don't snap out of it until they are given real consequences.

Stick to your guns man, tell yourself everyday that this is what is best for you, your kids, and even her. I won't tell you that it will end happily ever after, but what I can tell you is that you won't be left in this emotional limbo.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Sometimes telling them the consequences doesn’t get them out of their fog. It’s only when they start living the consequences and they see the mess they’ve created that they wake up. But they wake up to find their partner has moved on and their world has taken a dramatic turn for the worse. And what was ever there before has gone forever.

I told my wife if she keeps repeating the same things I will no longer share my life with her. It’s now nine months out from when we split and I know for a fact she’s having a much harder time of it than I am. All her planning and scheming came to nothing for her.

Bob


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

I am not sure this is over.. 

Your wife is in a full EA without even knowing it, the man has played her well


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Talked about the post office thing and G-Mail last night. She got really mad. Damn near yelling at me mad. Said she had done everything I had asked, but I was still looking at her stuff. I Explained that without the post office trip yesterday (paid out of our joint checking account, which was to return some stuff to overstock that she didn't want to bug me with), I would not have been looking. She had been unable to close the G-Mail, and had not checked it since last weekend. The OM new she was not going to be checking this account. She told me to close the Gmail if I could figure out how to do it (did that this morning). I told her it seemed to me that he was not going to leave us alone and we needed to send him a letter stating that he was to have no contact with her. She said the email must have been a mistake, something he sent to everyone in his contact list. I said he encouraged you to lie to me and hide things from me and that I did not trust him at all. I said for my sanity and the health of our relationship, he can not be a part of our lives.

This morning I found out why she was so mad last night. Over the weekend I had told her I just wanted to put it all in the past and move on. She told me she had gotten the delusion into her head that in a few months, I would tell her she could start talking to him on Facebook again and that if he ever came to town to see his step dad, that him and I might be able to meet. What I told her last night, smashed that fantasy to pieces. I left this morning for work with her crying and upset, but she told me to go she didn't want to talk anymore. When something as small as a post office trip gets me digging, she doesn't know how to win my trust back. I told her to tell me in advance of something like that or to let me send them like I always have in the past. She refuses to acknowledge that it was anything other than a friendship. Anything I say to the contrary will be a huge love buster, forcing the issue on the no contact will be the same. At least, she now is clear as to where I stand in regards to him.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Please keep an eye open and be very careful not to push her over the edge, you must however take the recommended steps, they are mandatory 

This is a steady journey, small steps and love your wife

Here is a link that may help if you when you sit with her, make sure she knows you trust her but *not him* as he led her on before, both of you need to push him away. 

Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity


How do you do get her to do the no contact? It is very dependant on her reaction and you may end up going on a very difficult journey.

I need some time to mull on the last item 

“When something as small as a post office trip gets me digging, she doesn't know how to win my trust back. I told her to tell me in advance of something like that or to let me send them like I always have in the past. She *refuses to acknowledge* that it was *anything other than a friendship*. Anything I say to the contrary will be *a huge love buster*, forcing the issue on the no contact will be the same. At least, she now is clear as to where I stand in regards to him.”

The key word is *force* and you do not want to do that.. If she is in a good frame of mind then do the letter and no love buster issue but .. let me think…


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

The saving grace in all this is that our sex life has not changed any since he entered the picture in early May. It has been on an very active and highly passionate cycle since about the start of the year. This is the one fact that in her mind makes this not an EA.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

The challenge here is try getting the win for you and your wife and not having to take the rough road, which is difficult to say the least.

We all agree that the no contact letter is needed.

A couple of thoughts below….

She knows you ordered the books to help yourself become a better husband so 

bring this up in the conversation with her and in support of what has happened use the link I sent you to identify where she is in the EA. (Reading your post again you may choose not to use the link)

It maybe help at this stage to not use the word EA, lets call it an “emotional link” for the time being. Say you won’t use the “A” word as you are aware it hurts her. 

Perhaps using other key words puts her in a good position and helps you get her to deliver the goods. ie the NC letter

Using the words like: -- you’re a *wonderful woman* he took advantage of your *good nature, manipulated you* by using his previous knowledge of your *open and honest personality* to abuse your friendship and led you down a path that caused you to adopt behaviours that are contrary to who you are. 


Mention that you noticed a change for the worse in her behaviour when this was all secretive and did not realise what was happening until you found the XX sorry can’t remember how you found this out.

Be open and say you went online to research what was happening, and all the ticks were in the box, so this is not your opinion. 

I would say don’t mention this forum as you may need further support just in case, the link I sent you has no correlation. 

I think the way forward is how you talk to her, but you must stick to your guns and hold the line on this.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

I wont try to update the post above; I keep on messing up the insertion.

What I was trying to add is:

It helps if you call on her emotions at this point and say you felt sick to the stomach when you found out what happened, you thought you had done something terribly wrong and that you had lost her.

All the above is probably true you just need to express it to her. 

This is one of the few times I suggest doing this is shows your gentler side, but do not let it be seen as sign of weakness and that you are wavering


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Have you given some thought as to your next steps?


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

I have reread all your posts an extracted below a history:

*In the morning I plug in her phone to charge and find the end of a sexually oriented text stream

There were some pdf's sent as well of a sexual nature, but they were just "erotic stories".

he encouraged her to set up a G-Mail account and not tell me about it.

Phone usage went up by about 320 minutes in may.

Even though half of June she was not supposed to be talking to him, usage was 1,032 minutes

She says the sexual stuff (texts and pdf's had stopped, but I can't verify it. She clears her phone records daily. Text usage went from 584 to 3,389, to 2,461 (i found she had installed Text Free on her phone).

She sent him a package from the post office without my knowledge. I later found out it was a book.

Over two months, stuff would pop up, I would freak out, she would explain it away and I would buy it. I kept promising to stay out of her stuff, but I just couldn't do it.

found he had sent her a picture of a hotel room

This lead to an ultimatum. Facebook only, no texts, no phone, no pictures. She agreed. I also said I would stay out of her stuff one more time.

got on her facebook and saw a conversation where he asked her for pictures from the bar and she told him to text her on her phone.

Find where she had sent him some pictures on Monday. I found she had googled skype and looked into it.

also found on her phone where she talked to him Saturday Night. I asked her if she had sent him pictures she said I don't think so*

After reading this I strongly suggest you need to go in hard, this is a full EA and the fact he still has her mobile number clearly says they will be in contact soon if not already. She has lied to often 

Grit your teeth and deliver the ultimatum tonight, shows her the trail as described she has done more that deceive you. 

*Privacy is going to the bathroom secrecy is deceit*
Use the WORDS EA it must sink in, 

I even suggest a call to her parents to let them know of the dialema. If she sends *the NC letter tonight* OK if not escalate.. 

Do you know his step father – get his address and let them know what is happening, send him a letter such as the one complied on this thread

Land2634 Today, 07:13 PM 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/14064-wife-having-emotional-affair-how-handle-8.html

You are going to have to be tough, I guess you have had a lot of stress in the past but we are with you...


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Remember to check myspace has been deleted and check that Linkedin account.. Sounds like mischief to me..


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Yer wife’s in love with you and you are in love with your wife. I had more then 4 decades of being in love with my Carol. Enjoy Okie.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

I think I need to back off for now. She claims she has asked him to stop contact and despite the lying that has taken place so far, I believe her. My prying and digging is only making this worse right now. Even if I found additional proof, her mom was abusive and an alcoholic for years (she inherited the abuse from my wife's grandma). Their relationship is ok now, but not enough to matter. In fact it was during these years that she knew the OM. She has talked to her father once in the 12 years we have been married. So I don't know who I could go to for support anyway.

What little I do know and have read is that his marriage is bad anyway and if I split them up, he could end up being more aggressive. He may actually even have permission from his wife for "friends to talk to". He has been using my wife to fill in all the things missing from his marriage. She just thinks she has been being a friend.

The only indication I have gotten from my wife about something that could be missing is she has told me that I never talk to her about my day at work. I am a part owner of a small business that is struggling very much in today's economy and I prefer to leave that stress at the office and not worry her about the fact that I am not sure how we are going to meet payroll next week, much less still be in business in 6 months. Guess I am going to have to find a way to get her more involved in my work than I have been able to do so far, while at the same time not freaking her out about just how hard the struggle has been.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Okie

It will help to share all issues with her then she can at least understand the challenges you are going through. Your business is your families’ bread and butter and she needs to understand the issues and together you can work through this. 

Hang in there; I am certain you will find a way forward in both your marriage and business.

Thoughts are with you


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Okie,
It’s good that you’ve been protecting your wife from problems with the business. That’s very honourable.

Just maybe if you share the problems with your wife she’ll get some understanding of where you’re at. They do say and I found it true, that a man can handle problems at work and he can handle problems in the home. But big problems both at home and at work are immensely difficult for a man to handle.

I have a little story about that. I was given three weeks off work, fully paid etc. after I had a nervous breakdown. I was at home when my wife came in from work and I told her what had happened. Her response? You think you’ve problems at work you’ve problems at home as well as I’m thinking of leaving you.

So please be careful if you do share your business problems with your wife. When I got back to work two VPs had a meeting with me, they’d lined up five new functions for me and I could chose which one I wanted. I felt far more needed and wanted at work than I did at home.

Tread carefully and good luck.

Bob
PS: Your wife is being emotionally intimate with another man. That is the reality of an EA. That other man needs to get counselling about his marriage either in a place like this or with a counsellor. It is not your wife's business while she is with you.

It would of course be very different if your wife's friend were a woman.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Wife was pretty cold when I got home, could tell she was upset. As evening went on, she warmed up, but still felt distant. Didn't talk about anything relationship wise last night, but I did try to talk more about work.

We talked a little this morning, I told her I used to get home from work and be able to see the stress just melt away and you get relaxed, last night it seemed that you were upset and I couldn't make a difference. She said I won't be able to see it for long. I said if you dread me coming home from work, this isn't good. She said that is not what she meant, she has been in that relationship and would not do that to either of us. She said she meant she will get over it.

I told her I don't like leaving and her being sad all day. Said I understand you miss talking to him and getting his texts. Said I have read it is almost like withdrawal. She said it is not like that, she is morning the death of a friendship that she will never get back. She said she has always had more guy friends than girl friends and I knew that.

I said you see this as just a friendship, but it got out of control you spent over 1000 minutes on the phone last month and you hate talking on the phone. She said twenty years leaves a lot of catching up to do. I told her there are many people who love you and if you put the effort into it with them that you did with Him, you would have that deep friendship. She said do we have to go over this again. I said no and I am sorry about the way this all happened.

Then the doorbell rang and the conversation ended because we had company. She is taking our kids and two bonus kids to a water park for the day so at least she will be occupied today.

Started reading His Needs, Her Needs yesterday. Probably will read it at work. Not sure about taking the book home after the discussion when she found out I had ordered it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Definitely take it home. Her seeing it is just part of your new total honesty with her. You're now an open book, ok? She needs to be able to say anything to you, and vice versa. It takes work, but it will pay off.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Sounds to me like you need to either focus on your business or your marriage. Both are in “trouble” and because of that both may go belly up if you don’t truly focus on one or the other.

Why not just say to your wife something like “I realise you’ve been through a lot by yourself with this other relationship and for one reason or another we’ve been through a lot together because of it. I trust you in these things. You said you will no longer contact him because of the affect on our marriage and I believe what you say. I want you to know that you have my 100% trust”.

Then leave it all alone for three months, get your head down and get that business humming like it should be. Or find another way of earning money.

There's a "balance" that the bread winner has to find, somehow.

Bob


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Definitely take it home. Her seeing it is just part of your new total honesty with her. You're now an open book, ok? She needs to be able to say anything to you, and vice versa. It takes work, but it will pay off.


I agree with Turnera here - that book is a great one. Leave it lying somewhere. She might pick it up and leaf through it - it may very well catch her eye!

And I also agree about the transparent honesty - I'd be very open with her - let her know you have spent a lot of time not talking to her about things that bother you because you didn't want her to get upset - but that you realized that in a way, that is a means of controlling her - you were editing data that she received so that her responses would be favorable to you. And when you figured that out, you realized how much that you really wanted her input - apologize for keeping it away from her - and let her know that you want her to be a part of all of your life from now on...

See how she reacts to that...


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Had an interesting evening. The wife rear ended a Firetruck (yes a very large, very red firetruck) at an intersection yesterday afternnon. They were on the way home from the water park and she thought the light turned green and she hit the gas. No one hurt, enough damage to the bumper on her van that it will be need to be replaced, maybe a broken taillight on the firetruck. The firetruck drove through the intersection and then pulled over. Wife followed and pulled in next block down. The firemen were very gracious, but the policeman that came was a real jerk. Ended up with two police cars, two firetrucks, one fire marshall truck, and one news helicopter. Wife got two tickets, one for no insurance which will be fixed when she shows her insurance today. The other for leaving the scene of an accident. Don't know what will happen with that one. She texted and then called me while the policeman was back in his car and talking to the firemen about the accident. She seemed ok, but I knew she would be a mess later. She had to keep it together while the bonus kids we had were picked up. I grabbed dinner on the way home about an hour later.

It is going to suck being out the money, but this gave me a chance to give her the unconditional support and love from me that no one else can. She is incredibly embarrassed by the accident, kept talking about how she can't do anything right lately, how she didn't deserve me and my love. I kept telling her everything will be all right, accidents happen, it's only money, and that I love her no matter what happens.

Later in the evening, I was able to surprise her with tickets to Big Head Todd and The Monsters. We saw them in Reno on our honeymoon, if they had not been touring it is possible we might not have gotten married when we did. They just announced yesterday they were playing in Tulsa about 1 1/2 hours drive from home. We had talked about going to see them for our anniversary in Kansas City (we went there when we were dating to see my Chicago Cubs), but had booked the New Years Mexico trip instead.

Tonight, we go to Curling. Last week was the first week I have participated in a league and she watched from the stands and took pictures. It was fun, felt like having a girlfriend in the stands back in high school. Felt the same for her from what she said.

Feels like we are getting back on the right track.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Absolutely marvellous. 

Let the healing begin, sometimes it takes little external help to get her to realise who is the most important person in her life is. 


Best wishes


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Plus while she did not say it directly her round about words do show admission .."kept talking about how she can't do anything right lately, how she didn't deserve me and my love". She knows what was happening with the OM was inappropriate.

A good start for you and your wife...


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

I figured something out yesterday. I had gotten out of the habit of telling my wife how beautiful she is. She really has the most amazing smile and the most beautiful Hazel eyes. She usually would scoff at my compliments, make gagging sounds, tell me I have to say that because I am her husband, etc. After ten years of having my compliments shot down, they just sort of stopped. I talked to her about this and told her I needed her to accept them as how I truly feel.

I left her a simple note by the coffee pot this morning telling her I love you. Got a call later in the morning just to say thanks for the note.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Had a setback over the weekend. Saturday, we were in the hospital visiting her grandfather bout 2 1/2 hour drive. Wife was using phone updating facebook and playing games for what seemed like a long time. I must have gotten that look because she came over and talked to me and told me what she was doing. I apologized for my reaction. The rest of the day went ok, next morning we were intimate (in her mom's bedroom no less she was at work, kids in the living room asleep). Lounged around (I slept for about 2 hours) then went to the hospital again in the afternoon. I was tired and cranky, my wife took it as being upset about about us and told me she was worried about me and sick about what this has done to us. She also said she was worried about doing things that would make me mad. We found out her grandpa was going to be ok, made her mom leave the hospital and took her and the kids to see Despicable Me. We had seen it already, but we wanted her mom to have a break. Finally got home at 9:30 and got ready for bed. Asked her to come over to cuddle and she did. 

She told me if I wanted us to go to therapy she would consider it, if her being on the phone is going to make me react, she thought that maybe our relationship was not as strong as she had thought. I tried to explain some of the feelings I have been having. How physically sick this has made me. How the 20 lbs I have lost were more from that than working out (which was a huge mistake by the way). How I just don't understand how she doesn't think it was inappropriate. How I felt I had been leaving her out of real conversation about my work fears and that the need for communication was one area which I thought I had fallen short of what is needed. How I didn't think I had been complimenting her enough (she said you do that all the time, I just reject them).

This morning I checked her iphone. She had been on LinkedIn last monday. Claimed she went after I told her about it to see what it was, not because she had seen his gmail to her. She created an account thinking she could use it for her cookie business, then decided to delete it. She said she sent him an email telling him about the gmail I found and he said it was an accident and got sent to everyone on his mail list. (Which was followed with a hah I was right) I also found a link to something that had been visited many many times over the week in history (some days the only site opened) the page was "Untitled". I clicked on it and found something called Squirrel Mail and it said you have to be logged in to view this site. She denied having an email account there. Said she didn't know how it got on her phone, must have opened from something else. Said Squirrel Mail sounded so stupid she couldn't have made anything up that bad. I told her I am not sure I believe her.

She reiterated that she thought there had been nothing wrong with our marriage before this, said she has had bad experiences with counseling, but she was willing to try, but would prefer to try to do it when the kids start school in three weeks. They are unaware we have been having problems. Said I should probably go by myself even if she doesn't, I agreed with that. She said she thinks I am looking for a way out. By reading the books I ordered and posting/reading on the internet, I am trying to find problems with our marriage even where there were not any in the past. Told me I have started saying some things that are mean and hateful (like the weight loss comment and telling her that if she really wanted the court would give her the kids and half my money and there was nothing I could do anyway - this one was a few weeks ago). I keep telling her I want to be there and not somewhere else. She said she hates that and it sounds like I am trying to convince myself not her.

I said I am not sure how to move forward when we view what happened so differently. You reject my compliments, but printed out pages from your conversation's with him on facebook because you thought they were sweet (I found these after they had been ripped up two weeks ago). She said it's easier to take compliments from someone you don't think is obligated to do it. He was using you as a substitute for everything wrong in his marriage and that is not appropriate. She said I know that, but I haven't gone anywhere and am not doing the same. I am still here with you, loving you, cuddling you, having sex with you even in my mom's room after I swore I wouldn't. I said I don't want you to resent me for killing what to you was just a deep friendship, but I can't view it the same way you do. She said I don't resent you for it. She has one good friend that she can talk kid school related stuff with, and one good friend that she can talk scrap booking with, but not much else because she would feel judged by her (she is a minister on sabbatical). I asked about her girl friend that she went out with two weeks ago, and she said she is not that kind of friend.

She offered to let me take her phone to work today. I told her to keep it, I can't control what you do (she didn't like this and said it was mean). She asked what if I got an old style phone with out internet and stuff. Should I take her up on it and get her an old style phone?

She doesn't understand that my reactions to this situation are quite normal and I am not sure she would believe me if I told her. I have tried to not dig in her stuff, but just don't buy that he is really out of the picture. I had left everything alone since the gmail incident, but I had a gut feeling that her protesting my reaction over the weekend was a sign that she had been doing something. I can't prove that she is still lying to me, but I think she is. I really don't know what to do. I wish I could just pretend nothing happened and that I know he is out of the picture which is what she wants, but I can't.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You’re in a bit of a pickle. It’s an English expression for you haven’t a clue which way is up. You’re in a bit of a spin, like being in a washing machine.

At times like these take yourself away. Think, contemplate. After some time, two hours at least, maybe four, five or more, listen to your gut. Listen and try and make sense of what it’s telling you.

Bob


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

I forgot to add earlier, we had attended a funeral Saturday morning for a man from our old church we both loved. He was 90 and had been married for 60 years to his surviving wife. We were both pretty shaken up about it. I had a dream Saturday Night that my wife had died. It was a pretty ****ty dream, and life sure seemed to suck in the dream. My wife's main response was, Oh you'll be fine, I know several people who would probably divorce their husbands in a second to scoop you up as good as you are to me.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Okie~

Is this the SquirrelMail that you saw: SquirrelMail Wikipedia page. If so let me tell you what this is. 

SquirrelMail is an email application that is open source (written in PHP) and web-based. So it's a free email program like gmail or hotmail or yahoo that you can access on the web (in other words, not like Windows Outlook which is a. Here's a link to their site's screenshot page: SquirrelMail. Thus if you see a link SquirrelMail that is visited many, many times -- and some days it's the only site opened -- and if it leads you to a login page or says "You have to be logged in to see that page" that means she has an email account there and in order to see the messages. you have to be logged in as her.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Sorry, but it sounds like no matter what you do (a) you will never trust her and (b) she may never be trustable.

You an take her phone, OM will just buy her one and pay for it. She will go to the library and set up an email account and email from there.

it just sounds like you are fighting a losing battle.

Sorry.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Yes, it was squirrel mail. I didn't see that page, I saw an error page. I guess she is still lying to me even though I can't prove it.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

It is hard for the EA person to break all contact.

She emailed him once already about the gmail account why?.. looked at linkedin, has squirrelmail history links, these are indicators either she is fishing as part of the withdrawal or she has opened an account somewhere.

Gut feeling is you need to work with her to heal the rift, you have little option but to move forward and show her you trust her, you cannot watch her 24 hours a day.

She offered you the old style phone - a smart call on her side, testing your trust perhaps.. Decline the offer as for now you must trust her. 

My concern is the compliments she gives..” I know several people who would probably divorce their husbands in a second to scoop you up as good as you are to me.”. …In a normal conversation this would be fine but as she is in an EA withdrawal its almost feeling the waters. 

The intimacy in her moms room.. it seems she is trying to hard. It could be guilt or a cover up. 

Do not spy on her; it will cause further distrust between the two of you.

You will see the signs, phone face down, history links or the lack history links as they are being cleared down. Perhaps access a site you know not a common one a supplier and use it as a marker. I suspect your wife is quite savy so normal checks are not going to catch her out. 

Drop the topic completely and move forward even though in your heart you do not feel like it. Make sure she knows that it is your intent to grow old with her and look after the grand kids type stuff.

Start to laugh, change the mood between you, do not appear to be trying to hard, Yip it will be hard on you but you need to get her to focus on the good side of you and forget him.

Just know in your heart you love her, if she is engaging in a conversation with him again and you can evidence it go mad.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

My fiirst post was before I read the previous items..

How about this for a suggestion..

Deep breath.

Have a script ready to say to TOM, make sure this is you doing the talking no debate no answer back. 

When you and your wife are alone, take her phone put it on speaker call his number

Go though your script, YOU are going to bollock him in front of your wife in the nicest of ways., this is you talking and then saying goodbye. 

Any suggestions Guys


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

FYI ..

SquirrelMail - Webmail for Nuts!

It looks like you have to download the product

Extract below

"SquirrelMail configuration is file based. If you've installed SquirrelMail directly from source you'll find the configuration file in config/config.php, but if you're using a SquirrelMail package from your OS distribution the actual configuration file may be located somewhere else (such as /etc/) - usually with a symbolic link from config/config.php. Read the documentation that came with the distribution package to find out more about OS distribution specific details. The rest of these instuctions assumes that you've installed SquirrelMail from source"


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

No way to call him. She doesn't have his contact information in her phone any longer. She clears her call lists and her text messages. If I were to ask for his number she wouldn't give it anyway.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

More info .. for Iphone specificaly 

It is possible to set up the free Squirremail on an iPhone but you need get some information first as Incoming and Outgoing Mail Server  Host Name (SMTP), and of course the user name and password from the Squirremail account you already created:

This is a general how to configure an email account on your iTouch/iPhone.

Choose Settings / Mail, Contacts, Calendars / Accounts and choose Add Account....
Choose the email account type you need. In the Mail section select Add Mail Account and enter account information. Then click Save. 
On the next screen enter your account details. If you are on a (ss) Shared-Server or (dv) Dedicated-Virtual Server you can use mail.////server.com as your incoming and outgoing mail server. (dv) users may also use the IP Address as well. Incoming Mail Server  Host Name: s////.server.com  User Name: [email protected]/////.com  
Password: 
Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP)  Host Name: s////.server.com  User Name: 
[email protected]
Password: 
Save the entered information. Your iPhone will then verify your account information. If successful you will be taken back to the Mail Settings screen. You will still need to configure your folders. Select your newly created account and enter the Advanced section.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

"No way to call him. She doesn't have his contact information in her phone any longer. *She clears her call lists and her text messages*. If I were to ask for his number she wouldn't give it anyway."

If this is still happening I see your concern. Do you have access to a call log from the mobile provider or can you activate one for incomming and outgoing calls as well as text messages.

My bill shows everything including the numbers called and texted. Plus the vendor can bar certain web sites for you.. 

It may close this down quickly, if there is nothing there then OK if there is then..


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

You will know the answer best but are we just being suspicious for the sake of being suspicious.

Your gut feel


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Okie said:


> No way to call him. She doesn't have his contact information in her phone any longer. She clears her call lists and her text messages. If I were to ask for his number she wouldn't give it anyway.


Don't leave it too late to declare your boundaries. The behaviour you will no longer tolerate. The behaviour you have zero tolerance for.

If you do that a whole new world will open up for you, an unknown world.

Reckon she's manipulating the hell out of you because she knows you too well. You're just beginning to discover who she is. She's deceiving you and lying to you. You just haven’t understood and accepted that fact. When you do you’ll accept that she’s a liar. Was tough for me that one. You’ve been very loving, patient, tolerant and compassionate and she’s using it to her advantage. Yes that sweet woman you know as your wife.

Bob


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Okie~

Here is a reality check for you. You may not know this but at one point in my life I was a disloyal spouse. I learned a lot about disloyals that way, including that I shouldn't judge and that anyone can slip into it without meaning to! But when I came to my senses and really did come back to work on the marriage here is what I did:


My Dear Hubby did send OM a letter and once I agreed to no contact, I never contacted him again...ever! 

I deleted all emails, forums, chats, IMs etc. which I had been using to contact him. I mean I uninstalled the software from my computer...with him watching. 

I faced my PC monitor toward him so that it's visible to all and he can see whatever I'm doing any time. I don't close screens quick. 

I have one email account for personal and one for professional (and one for spam, newsletters, etc.). To this day my Dear Hubby knows all my emails and passwords and on the occasion goes in to read/look/see that I'm being honest. I am okay with that because it's a good way to reassure him. 

To this day I also have his emails and passwords

Any site that I go on, I talk to him first and I sign up when and/or if he agrees. 

I don't have a cell phone so that's not happening. 

Any time he wants to just look I let him--all of my life and PC life is open to him. 

When I say I'm going to do something or be somewhere, I do that and only that OR I call him ahead of time and let him know.

(BTW--he doesn't/didn't ask for all this, but I do it voluntarily to help him and to protect me...both!)

See, Okie, I tell you this because when one person is dishonest with the other, the way to rebuild trust is to have your words and your actions MATCH. If I am where I say I'm going to be...if I come back when I say I'm going to...if he goes 3 or 4 or 5 months without seeing any contact then trust is built because my words are matching my actions. If he can periodically check, when HE feels like it, and knows I am open then he feels secure. Right? Get that?

Now what disloyals love to do is to ACT dishonest but then tell you that YOU are acting suspicious, or YOU are making a mountain out of a molehill, etc. In other words, the words and actions don't match. In words they say "I want to work on the marriage. I want to end the affair" but their actions say they still hide things, still lie, and still continue the contact with their affair partner! When words and actions DON"T match, that does NOT build trust...and it is natural-normal that you would not trust them! So what do they do? They blame YOU for having a trust issue!!!  Well...actually you don't have a trust issue. You *trust *them...to be dishonest! In fact you 100% trust their lack of honesty! :lol: 

No. Don't fall for it. It's a trick. REAL trust is when a partner is OPEN to you, willing to let you see all of their emails and private messages and cell phone calls and texts. When the words and the actions match ... and you STILL are suspicious, then you may have an issue believing in someone's honesty. Until then, you don't feel trust because your disloyal is not behaving in a trustworthy way!


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Hi Okie

At this moment you are probably feeling a low and need to take a little time to get your head in order and plan the next steps. Plus you have a business to run.

The correct route to follow is to gather the evidence, talk to your wife, she stops the affair , sends a no contact letter, provides open access to all information to rebuild trust and you then rebuild the marriage.

The position you are in is you have evidence to date, you confronted, mails and friends have been deleted and she “I think” has said she would not contact him again

there are some big missings.

The indication on your posts is she will not do a number or key steps to close this down and you do not have the confidence that she has stopped all communication with him.


There is still the possibility that your wife may be playing a straight bat, the words you have written do not imply it but your actions to your wife must be one of trust, she must know you are there.

I was following the sequence of events in your posts
1. linkedin was read on Monday last week 23rd July
2. She told you “ She claims she has asked him to stop contact” - during the week I assume, how - by mail , phone call or text.
3. She has history on her Iphone for Squirrel Mail - again I assume this was from before her mishap at the end of the week
4. This one it the big event. She rear ended a fire truck at the end of the week – you supported her on this and she said -- “she is incredibly embarrassed by the accident, kept talking about how she can't do anything right lately, how she didn't deserve me and my love.”
5. There is a possibility by the end of the week she had come round especially after the accident. 

You have had a busy week and she has had a number of shocks and initial boundary setting. 

Keep an open mind, she does love you, perhaps it’s the doubt from the lies she has told you before, follow the sequence of events logically and see if you come to the same conclusion. 

***


If in doubt 

Track down his parents address and send them a letter.. be brave on this I believe it will help you..

An thread of the letter from land 2634 is below,, it is a good template for you to use, change the words to be specific to your circumstances. The format of the letter is fine. Remember this is to TOM’s folks where as “lands” was to her grandparents.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/14064-wife-having-emotional-affair-how-handle-8.html


If TOM contacts your wife then show her the letter, the content will be factually correct including the parts where you love your wife and are protecting your marriage etc… 

Be prepared to tackle his wife plus as I am assuming the contact between your wife and him is happening during the day then, as he is working he must be using company time and tools to do this, you will need actual mails or call logs to prove this. If your position at home does not improve and the affair is ongoing then go to his HR department with it.. 

****


Best wishes


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

First words out of my wife's mouth to me last night were "did you have a chance to find a counselor today?" We barely spoke after that until the kids were in bed. The kids had said she had been sick all day and she looked sick. I asked her if she had a fever and needed aspirin, she said no it is not that kind of sick. She said she felt like she was dying. She has been upset at various times through this ordeal and apologized for the lying, but I don't think she has ever reacted this way. I have at times gone through this feeling myself along with some pretty heavy anxiety.

She said she has been trying to go back to what it was before, back to normal. I have told her previously that this is what I want. Every time we start to get closer, something happens and she gets "slapped down". She said every time it takes longer and is harder to get back. I keep telling her I am going to stay out of her stuff, but just can't seem to make myself do it. I don't trust that he is gone. She sees this as me lying to her and she is right. By telling her I will leave it be and then looking anyway, no matter the reason, I am breaking her trust in me. She knows I have her passwords and has said I am free to look, but when I find something it still gets her upset. She didn't know I had checked her phone on occasion until yesterday.

I have done very poorly in following the steps since I found this site in the middle of my struggle and appreciate all the input I have received from you all. My biggest problem is lack of evidence. Should I try to explain to her that it is normal for me to desire to check up on her? Go ahead and start counseling and bring that up in a safer environment?

I have been given all his information by a friend on the board and could send a letter to TOM & his wife myself, but don't know how she would react. I am really at a loss.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You have a right to tell OM to back off. You have a right to fight for your marriage. If your wife somehow 'knows' that you contacted him, then you will also know that she is lying about no longer being in touch with him.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Perhaps you should do the following.

I sense you do not want to lose ground with you wife on this or take a step back. 

Write a letter address it to both TOM and TOM's wife. 

Write it in such a way that what you are saying is factually correct without mentioning the affair word, but do mention the history, length of time on the calls, movement to g-mail, linkedin invite, compliments he wrote to your wife, his comments about you. The story starts in say XX May when he contacted her etc..State clearly that there is to be no contact going forward. 

Post the letter on the site for comments.

Thereafter because you are being open with your wife you sit with your wife and show her a copy of the letter and explain it is to help bring closure to this and both of you can then look forward only. 

Post the letter before she reads the copy.

If she calls Tom and he intercepts the note he will either get the message or not, the letter will have an implicit understanding that there will be an HR impact on him at work. If he does not get the message and you are aware of this then you send a second one to his wife recorded mail (not sure of the US terms) and to his work.

If the letter is written correctly he will be aware it is not only exposure at home but at work as well.

Thoughts.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks to Wisp for working with me on this. Please let me know your thoughts.

I am going the no contact letter route this evening. If she won't send it, she isn't serious. I am printing a sample along with the explanation that to close the door and move forward I need this. I really fumble over my words talking to her right now. Here is what I plan on giving her.

"For me to feel closure on this and take away my concern that Carl is still pursuing you, I would like for us to compose a letter to Carl and mail it to him. If you can do this for me I will assume that there is no contact between you two unless you tell me otherwise. After this, I will not check up on you any more. If what I have written below doesn’t work we can write something else together, both sign it, and I will mail it.

TOM,

As you know the nature of the friendship between you and My Wife has caused some distress within our household.

In order to heal our marriage and move on, My Wife and I have decided and are in agreement that there is to be permanent no contact between you and My Wife.

We ask that you please respect our wishes.

Okie and Okie's Wife"


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Go for it, look at her reaction when you say it..

Nothing worse than doing nothing...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Okie said:


> ... I am going the no contact letter route this evening. If she won't send it, she isn't serious. ... Here is what I plan on giving her.
> 
> "For me to feel closure on this and take away my concern that TOM is still pursuing you, I would like for us to compose a letter to TOM and mail it to him. If you can do this for me I will assume that there is no contact between you two unless you tell me otherwise. After this, I will not check up on you any more. If what I have written below doesn’t work we can write something else together, both sign it, and I will mail it.


I would recommend rewording this part: _"If you can do this for me I will assume that there is no contact between you two unless you tell me otherwise. After this, I will not check up on you any more."_ to say this: "If you can do this for me it will be a big step forward in rebuilding trust in the honesty that was destroyed by dishonest actions. I do volunteer to check less often as I see that your words and actions match and as I see that there honestly is no contact. When you say no contact and I can actually confirm there is no contact...that's when trust is rebuilt." 

I would STRONGLY SUGGEST that you do not volunteer to "assume there is no contact" as that is like burying your head in the sand and basically gives her permission to carry on her affair! "If we mail this together, you can tell your lover to just sort of ignore it and then I volunteer to look the other way while you continue!" *NO!!! * 

I also STRONGLY SUGGEST that you do not volunteer to not check up on her anymore. That is a recipe for crazymaking right there! The way to build trust in her honesty is for her to say there is no contact and then freely allow you to check to your heart's content to prove to yourself she means it! To say that you will stop checking on her basically says, "I volunteer to be used by you and you can lie to me all you want because I won't face the truth." 




> TOM,
> 
> As you know the nature of the friendship between you and My Wife has caused some distress within our household.
> 
> ...


I'll be honest. If I were the OM and I got this letter I would say to myself, "Yep this is Okie forcing his wife to do something she doesn't want to do" and it would be more ammo for how he doesn't try to control her and you do. Thus you are walking right into their trap if you write the no contact letter. This letter NEEDS to be written by your wife to the OM because SHE is the one who had the inappropriate relationship. SHE has to be the one to put her foot down and police herself and stop herself from contacting him, so this really does need to be from her...not you. After she has written it, if you want to add a P.S. that would be cool. 

So:

TOM~

As you know the closeness and intimacy of our relationship has caused distress within my marriage. When I married Okie, I volunteered to give 100% of my affection and loyalty only to him, and I have been giving it to others--namely you. 

In order to heal my marriage and move on, I have made the decision and agree with my husband that there is to be no contact between you and I ever again. 

Please respect my wishes for no contact. Okie has all the details of our relationship and he will also be told of any attempts at contact.


~ Okie's Wife


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

An update for everyone who has helped me. This is kind of a summary and a reposting of some PM's so it may not flow real well.

Didn't get the no contact sent. She says it has stopped. I did get agreement that if he contacted her, we would work together to send one.

We have had two emotionally intense discussions (one I started and one she started) about it over the week and think I have gotten her to understand why it hurt me so much. 

We talked about deception and what a killer it is for a marriage. She pointed out to me that I had a few pretty good lies early in our marriage and that I was not perfect. I told her I know fully well my shortcomings and I apologized for my lies in the past (I had friends and coworkers who went out to strip bars alot I didn't go as often as they did, and made fun of them for doing so, but had dated a stripper myself) and explained that when she found out the truth, I didn't sneak around behind your back and go to strip clubs. You knew every time I went it and it was always business related or for a bachelor party and in 12 years you can count on two hands the number of times.

I explained that what he was doing (replacing the bad from his marriage with my wife) was not fair to his wife, me, or even my wife for that matter. I think she realized she would not want me talking to another woman the way he talked to her when I asked her if she would be good with me having that relationship. I told her, part of the problem is that you think other than lying you did nothing wrong. I think you view me as an ogre who killed your friendship. She said I don't think you are an ogre, if she had a female friend in the same situation who I thought was a bad influence and I told her to stop talking to them, she would have probably done the same thing. I said it is still different. She said if we call it what you think it was (even though I never had bad feelings about you or thought anyone could understand me more than you) will it make a difference? I said only if you understand what I went through the last two months. I tried to explain it. Knowing that he was in love with her how much it hurt me. Told her you are my best friend and it felt like he was trying to replace me as your best friend. He told you things you thought were sweet enough to want to print and save them and hide them where I couldn't find them. Asked her if she ever told him she loved him she said no. Told her that there are things no other man has the right to tell her and that there are comforts she shouldn't get anywhere else.

Told her every time she had her phone out while we were watching a movie at home, I was sick worried that she was checking to see if he had sent her g-mail (I know for a fact at least once she did). Told her I still couldn't believe she lied about the g-mail in the first place, and knowing that she had it made that lie hurt every day. I told her I never had told her she couldn't email him until recently, she said yes but you were checking my emails that is why I created it. I said he encouraged you to do that, you are not a liar. I did not marry a liar and we are past the point where I think I could just blow it off if there is any more contact and I find out. She said there is not. She said I want to be with you. If I wanted to leave and go to Florida I could have at any point. She said I want to finish fixing up our house together, go to watch curling with you, watch while you get your tattoo, go to Mexico for Todd's birthday, raise our kids.

She offered to get a different phone with no internet or texting available, but I declined the offer. Seemed like a really bad idea to take her up on it. Told her I was not going to punish her for what has happened. I have checked the usage on her phone and it is down to where it was before TOM came into the picture. There has also been no suspicious cell phone behavior.

Short of installing a keylogger or monitoring software, I am confident that the contact is gone. She is still concerned that I am reading the books. Says I am looking for problems where there weren't any and that there really isn't anything about me she would change.

Maybe her being a Stay At Home Mom was / is our biggest problem. She had a great job before we had kids she did Auto Cad, but it was her choice to leave that job. She volunteers at the kids school one day a week and was babysitting 2 days a week up until the start of the summer this year when baby sitting ended. I have encouraged her to go back to school in the past, and have done everything I can to help her get her cookie business started. I guess he could spend time talking to her driving to work and back and text her during the day instead of working and that is how it got started. School starts next Friday so hopefully the schedule change will help keep her busy. I am trying to find time to text her in the middle of the day just to say hi, but feel like she may see it as me checking up on her.

I haven't let my guard down by any means, but am feeling more confident everyday that it is getting better.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds hopeful. Good work.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Here is a lengthy update, I am pretty sure you all knew I would be back with news that it really wasn't over yet.

There had not been any red flags or anything obvious to show it was still going on, but I had that feeling in my gut that it was still happening. I have been looking at installing monitoring software, but have not had a chance to do it when I was alone in the house. My kids always want to know what I am doing on the computer.

On Monday I got last months phone bill. Finally have phone bill details. Shows long text conversation on 07/28 starting at 3:10 and ending at 4:37 last day of the billing cycle. Well after this was supposed to be stopped. No phone calls since 07/18 that one was the one I found out about from where she called him from the bar and for the month she has only used 2 minutes of anytime vs 257 last month. I now have TOM's cell phone number and a record of very long text conversations during working hours. Not details of the conversations, just a listing of the times on the texts.

I was going to try to wait and not spoil our anniversary which was yesterday, but she always knows when there is something wrong. I don't seem to have the ability to lie to her about it.

I saw an email right before I went home about a Journal that she had ordered that was delayed. She was needing by Friday to resend to someone for their birthday. He is a Virgo so his birthday is coming up.

Told her I knew about the long text conversation she had on the 28th, she admitted to it. It was the day she hit the firetruck. I told her I now had detail on what happens with the phone. She said you were going to stop looking, I said I tried getting this set up immediately after I found the first texts and was told it couldn't be done, but here it is.

She admitted the second mail package was sent to him after I told her I wanted to see the return credit from it. It was a meditation pillow. She tried to say the journal was for her on her trip, but I told her I saw the note about the birthday.

She said that he has texted her a few times, and she responded when he did, but they were not long conversations. She still insists it was not "love" for her. I told her that he has been taking advantage of her kindness and knows that she would not ignore him or be mean.

She admitted she just craves the male attention from someone who doesn't "have" to give it to her. Daddy abandonment issues. She had counseling about this and depression early in our marriage and has been on anti-depressants for years. I think that realization hurt her more than anything else. She has always been flirty with my friends, but it is different, I know and trust them and it happens when I am there not behind my back.

I told her that if she wanted to stay, there had to be no more contact and asked about the no contact letter. She doesn't want to send it because that would mean that it was an affair. I said an email could be ok as long as I was able to read it and agree with it. She said she doesn't know his email address. I said I can get it at the shop. I asked again if she would have been good with me having the kind of relationship she has had with him, she said no I don't think I could believe it was just friendship.

I told her I worked my ass off to give her everything she has ever wanted and I didn't deserve to be lied to and I would not tolerate it any longer. I was going to be checking her phone and her computer and that if it didn't stop, I would tell his wife, his boss to get his ass fired, and all of our friends about this. I said if it is going to ruin my life and my marriage, I would ruin his and hers as well.

In the conversation, I used several of the lines from here. "Privacy is for the bathroom", and "I still trust you, I trust you to lie". Not exactly my best husband moments, but I needed to make sure she understood that this was it.

Later, she said she was surprised I would want to take revenge like that and asked how I could even do it. I told her I had all his information. She asked if it was a Private Investigator, I told her a friend from a message board found it. I told her about my experience here and how it kept me from going insane over the last three months. She said she doesn't even have his address or phone numbers that he always called her or initiated the text messages. I asked so you sent his packages to work? She said yes. She couldn't believe a random stranger found all his details.

She said if we are going to bury this and put it behind us, I want you to delete his details. He can't be out of our lives if you are hanging on to that. Said now I am the one with the choice to make. I told her having the information was like a security blanket for me. It gave me protection. I took some time to think about it and told her I would do it. Told her that tomorrow is our anniversary and that any contact after that must be told to me and that he has to be gone if we are starting over.

I am installing the key logger for a while she does not know that I am, but I did tell her I wanted permission to check the computer I just didn't say how, and she knows I can see who texts. I also said she can not delete her phone internet history any longer or I will take her iphone away and she will get a different phone.

There were lots tears Tuesday morning (our 12th Anniversary). She apologized repeatedly. I told her I love her and that our marriage is not over. She said I shouldn't love her. I said she deserves love and so do I. This can be lucky year number 13 of our marriage. I told her that she would just have to make do with the attention I give her. She said I have always given her plenty. I told her she couldn't beat herself up over this, it will go away if he does and as long as there are no more lies we will be awesome again.

Last night went ok. We had back to school meetings with my daughters teacher. Wife told me I didn't have to go, I said I haven't missed one in 7 years why start now. On the way home I told her I still wanted to be involved with everything I can for the kids school. She said I know how much you love them. It is probably why you are still with me. I told her it is much more than that. She cried every time I hugged her or said anything at all. The dolphin adventure tickets went over well. She said "I bet you wish you had not bought this now because I don't deserve it". I told her she did deserve it. She said she didn't deserve me because I am perfect. I said no I am not and everyone deserves love. I told her as long as he was gone we could move forward. She said I wish you would quit saying that.

This morning she forgot to make coffee. No big deal I grab cappuccinos from 7-11 instead sometimes so I asked if she wanted one. She started crying said this is not what I needed to do right now. I said I have never freaked out about coffee not being made before and I won't now, she said it is different and it is not about me, it is about how she is feeling.

This morning I saw he had sent her a gift on Mafia Wars on Facebook. They send email notifications. He is blocked on Facebook, but i guess not from an application they were friends on before. I called my wife and told her I wanted him removed from her mafia and then figured out how to make it happen while we were on the phone. She said what are you digging through now, I said I told you I was going to be monitoring your email and I found the notification in there. I said he is not going to leave you alone, we talked about sending an email, but have not done it. The conversation ended.

She called back about two minutes later and asked if I had his email address. I remembered it as either XXXXXXXX or XXXXXXX. She asked if I had deleted his information. I said yes I have, and that is true, I deleted the message I was sent with the links. I said I need to know what the email says, she replied in a fairly irritated voice "I know". There was a little bit of silence and then she said I have to go and got off the phone.

About 20 minutes later, I was copied in the email she sent him.

"My contact with you is damaging my marriage. There will be no further communication of any kind. Please respect my marriage and my choice."

We will see how it goes from here. I have finished His Needs, Her Needs, and am getting ready to start Getting the Love You Want. I got quite a bit out of the first one, and am trying to do what I can with what I have read. She still insists I have not failed her in any way.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow, you did great!

The only thing I would change is I would still call his wife. So she can monitor him from her end. And she deserves to know.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

She had sworn that the sexual aspects of the relationship had stopped long ago. She was trying to "wean herself" from the affair, that the present she sent him (she canceled the one last week and ordered a new one to ship direct and tried to hide it) was a good bye and that after his birthday on Sept 1 that she was done. Received bad news when I finally got access to the 2nd hidden email. It never had stopped only gone further underground. She was sending him emails and he sending back sexual emails (even on the morning of my last update), trading the word love. Imagining their future together. She had warned him of the no contact email and apologized for it, and had even emailed him yesterday to tell him the present was on the way. She swears it was just fantasy no basis in reality, asked me not to call his wife. I said I wouldn't unless I got one more thing. I told her you realize that everything he told you could have been lies. He encouraged you to lie to me and lied to his wife, how do you know that she really did the things he said. He is a scumbag. She wanted to leave, but I asked her to stay.

Last night between bed and this morning, the internet record on her I phone was cleared. She swore she didn't do it, but I don't know any other way it could be done. She asked me to see if it clears automatically. I took her phone with me and I checked when I got to work and it does not. 

So I called his house his wife answered and I told her everything. I could hear him beside her he denied it. Told her to check his cell phone bill the last three months for calls and texts from the number I called from. She said how many texts I said thousands. Told her that TOM had told my wife their marriage was terrible and that she had had two affairs. She said that is a lie. I told her I had proof of the affair if she wanted it to let me know. After hanging up I forwarded 12 of the emails so that he cant weasel out of it with her. Sent an email to his work address and his personal one telling him if he contacted my wife again I was going to send copies of the phone bill showing texts and phone calls during business hours.

She is pissed. Said I did the one thing she asked me not to do and I did it out of revenge for something she didn't even do. Told her yes revenge was a factor, but his wife deserved to know. Told her TOM's wife said the affair thing was a lie. Wife said well she could be lying to you.

She said she didn't know how she could live with herself knowing that so much has been destroyed by her stupid acts. I didn't tell anyone else but my boss at work. The other guy I work with knew and I updated them both. I am going back home. I am worried about my wife. If you pray, pray for us please.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

You did the right thing, she did go underground and yes the tracking software helped.

Not sure the EA will be over soon, they still may want to get to keep in contact.

Best for you to be firm, strong and loving to your wife.

Your disclosure is not revenge this is exposing the affair. They should not be shy about their deception.


Do not stop with the exposure. Tell one of her good friends that your wife is having an affair and that you are trying to save the marriage.

Thoughts and prayers are with you


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Exposure is NOT revenge. It is SAVING your marriage. The only way to get OM out of your lives is to let his wife know. So SHE can stop him on her end.

You ABSOLUTELY did the right thing. You may have saved your wife from herself. She may thank you some day. Maybe. For now, just keep repeating that you're saving the marriage from the fog.

I agree, tell her best friend or her mother or father, someone who she can now talk to honestly about it.


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## hope4us (Dec 11, 2008)

Wow...what can I say. I feel your pain because I am going through this myself. Texting, emails and pms. I want to trust and yet I find myself gravitating to snooping. 
My husband is being prety good about letting me know that he is ending these, with multiple women. Better for you that yours is far away. I have one that he was secretly meeting at his gym.
I know that he loves me but the problem is he still has this insatiable need to for attention. How is you wifes personality? Is she needy? 
We can pump them up and boost their egos but how long before it happens again? How long before its not enough? 
This is not the first time for me that this has happened. 
I doubt ayone here will give advice on when enough is enough. I can honestly say that I do not have it in me to do what you are doing with the contracts and confronting the other man. Good for you. Dont get me wrong. I am not giving up. 
I told my husband. I am willing to let him go if he feels that he could be happier with somebody else. I love him too much not to want him to be happy, even if it means letting him go. I also let him know that this being said, I too deserve to be with someone who feels the same for me as I do for him. I keep wondering how long before I am being unfair to myself. We both play vital roles in our small business and I wonder if this is why he wants to work things out...does he just needs me? 
I wonder how much of your wifes willingness to work on things with you is that she needs you more than you need her. Maybe you should consider having her help at your business. This might give her something to feel good about and it could be good for you too. 
I know that my relationship is in trouble but I know everything about his day as he does with mine. We share in the joys and fruits of our labor together. I wish you the best.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

I did stay home from work the rest of the day. We talked about this off and on. When she went to pick up the kids from school, she confided in a friend that has kids the same age as ours. Surprisingly, her husband had a two year affair with his boss eight years ago so she had some insight to offer. Wife was strongly considering leaving yesterday morning because of how bad she has hurt me (her words), but the friend told her she should stay. The friend told her of all the couples she knows, she can tell how much Wife and I love each other more than the others, she can see it in our eyes when we look at each other. Wife told her the thing with the phone internet history being cleared is just a giant karmic kick in the ass for all the stupid decisions she has made in this. Friend agreed. Friend also said I may not have taken TOM's wife feelings into enough consideration. Told wife she deserved to know so she can help make it stop and make an informed decision about her own marriage. I hope they work it out, but it is not my main concern. Friend talked about how distant and mean her husband had been during and right after his affair. Told her about the "script" and how they all seem to follow it.

Wife understands that what they were sharing was all fantasy and would never translate to reality and she swears she never wanted it to. I think I cast some pretty heavy doubts about TOM and his truthfulness with her. She said she didn't really know how or when it crossed over into affair territory and she never meant for it to do so. I told her what she did is very common and damn near epidemic in the world today. She asked if she had been distant or mean to me during this and I said except when we were fighting about this everything has been fine. I told her I know she didn't do any of this to hurt me asked her why it couldn't have stopped earlier, she said she didn't want to admit to herself that I was right and it was an Emotional Affair.

She asked about how I found the email, I told her there are programs that you can run that will pull stuff out of the computers memory. She knows I read all the emails and printed some of them off and sent some of them to his wife. She said it makes her sick to her stomach to know I read the nasty ones. She is convinced now that I will find out if she tries to hide anything again. I am not letting my guard down. She knows what I expect from her phone. She said this morning she hates the phone and computer and wishes we could move to the middle of nowhere and just be together.

I have told her about "Getting the Love You Want" and that I want us to read it together she seemed open to this. She had no interest in "His Needs, Her Needs". We are approved for some counseling sessions together and or separate for her to work on her father abandonment / male attention issues.

Through it all, in my gut I never really believed that it was over yet. This time I think it is.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

I received the weirdest email from TOM.

"Okie,
Do I need to respond to this? I am not in contact with Your Wife. I want you guys to be happy and have a good marriage. I don't know how you will verify all that? As your marriage fails please do not blame me or get us involved. I honestly think you are over reacting and certainly threatening, this is not the way to deal with this and I am not your problem. You will have to deal with insecurity and so will I so let's leave out the threats. I will act in my family's best interest and that can include you or not, I hope it does. If you want you can call me XXX-XXX-XXXX."

Told wife about it. She said he really is pretty weird and hard to understand isn't he. Told her I was not replying to him. Strange huh.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Nice update. I had a post ready but you have answered everything I would have asked

Do not let your guard down, the EA will take some time to kill in her mind and your wife is going to be tempted to contact TOM.

Have a plan ready if TOM contacts her.

A thought below:

Your good wife needs to write a new NC letter, take the toughest one you can find and add a paragraph..(sample below) 

“You need to be aware that I have provided my husband with all the information regarding the emotional affair and we are in agreement that should you in any way shape or form contact me or attempt to do so I will take the necessary steps as advised by our legal team.”

Do this while she is in cooperation mode. For Tom this will be a clear message.

*** Posted this before I read your very last post.. NC letter choice is yours. 

TOM is trying to make out he is the good guy here, guess he has lied to his wife and convinced her it is all your fault.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree - new No Contact letter.

I LOVED TOM's email! Hilarious! Threatening? Yeah, more like his wife was threatening HIM with a frying pan! lol

"As your marriage fails"...what a laugh.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Okie said:


> I received the weirdest email from TOM.
> 
> "Okie,
> Do I need to respond to this? I am not in contact with Your Wife. I want you guys to be happy and have a good marriage. I don't know how you will verify all that? As your marriage fails please do not blame me or get us involved. I honestly think you are over reacting and certainly threatening, this is not the way to deal with this and I am not your problem. You will have to deal with insecurity and so will I so let's leave out the threats. I will act in my family's best interest and that can include you or not, I hope it does. If you want you can call me XXX-XXX-XXXX."


Yeh right he wants you guys to be happy and have a good marriage and he may well have wrecked your marriage.

I see what he's written as an absolute lie in every word and concept.

No apologies, no remorse = a guy without empathy = a psychopath or narcissist. Probably a narcissist, they can be extremely sexually alluring and magnetic.

There are threats in his message to you. Don’t worry those guys can be bullies but back right down when they see an immoveable Man in front of them. I banged one on the nose, didn’t get a squeak out of him after that.



Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Okie said:


> She asked about how I found the email, I told her there are programs that you can run that will pull stuff out of the computers memory.



_“She asked about how I found the email, I told her there are programs that you can run that will pull stuff out of the computers memory”._

You told her how you knew what was going on!!! What was that, a demonstration of being "clever"? The rest in the paragraph is just smoke and mirrors, at least that’s how I see it. You still haven’t got the fact that your wife is a liar and has and maybe still is manipulating the heck out of you to get what she wants, how many times do you need to prove it to yourself?

I still think your wife is playing you Okie and you are still being naïve, sorry mate. I could of course be wrong but that is how I see it.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Okie said:


> She had no interest in "His Needs, Her Needs".


Why on earth does she have No Interest? Does she truly not want to know what it is you need to feel loved by her? And does she truly not want to tell you what she wants from you to feel loved by you?


I think this is a massive red flag. She should be pulling out all the stops to keep you Okie, she should at least try everything single thing that you suggest. Sure some aren’t going to succeed but she should still try.

Bob


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This is the one time where YOU should be calling the shots. She has lost your respect and your trust; she needs to earn it back, hopefully in return for you staying married to her. If she has no 'interest' in HNHN, then you need to tell her you may not remain 'interested' in giving her a second chance.

Now is when you have to show some cajones, my friend.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

I have told her one more contact, or one more act of deception and it is over. I have told her I want no facebook chats or messages or texts to other men period not just TOM. She doesn't know exactly how I found the information just that it can be done.

We had lunch today, I had her read the email he sent me, and clued her in to something that a friend on here told me he found in his earliest searches concerning TOM. There was a married woman he blocked on myspace after her H accused him of sending her inappropriate emails. I told her that someone on here said he is either a psychopath or a narcissist. W says narcissist very full of himself. Says she hated talking to him about anything but the fantasy stuff and in no way could live with him in the real world. She laughed at the "can include you or not, I hope it does" line. I asked her why in the world would he want me to call him and how could his family's best interest include me? She said I have no idea.

She is writing and we are going to send a No Contact Letter to his house. His wife already knows what he has done, what more can sending a letter there do than calling his wife?

Yesterday, she gave to me and I destroyed a tshirt and first edition signed comic book he had sent her. She also gave me and I destroyed a scrapbook page that she had made a long time ago that had a picture of him on it from back in high school. This one seemed the hardest, but she let it go.

I've got cell phone, home phone, computer, and laptop covered. Short of standing on top of her 24 hours a day there is not a lot more I can do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You haven't discussed the counseling/reading issue.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

We are going to read Getting The Love You Want. I have not brought back up HNHN, it was discussed quite a while ago when she was denying that it was an affair. She has agreed to get counseling for her father abandonment / male attention issues. She had counseling in the past, but refused to talk about her father despite her counselor telling her she needed to. We are approved for 20 sessions each (can be joint or individual 40 total) through our insurance but don't have anything scheduled yet. It will get scheduled next week.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Okie said:


> I have told her one more contact, or one more act of deception and it is over. I have told her I want no facebook chats or messages or texts to other men period not just TOM. She doesn't know exactly how I found the information just that it can be done.


Okie,
I appreciate you're going through one heck of a lot. When/if you have a quite moment I'd appreciate knowing how you felt when you set the above boundary and consequences. Also your wife's "immediate" reaction on hearing the boundary and consequences.

Bob


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

If you post again can you let us know what the final NC letter said, it helps others that may be in the same position.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

She just went with letter # 2 from Affair Care's site.

AFEH - I felt like a man for the first time in months. I had tried making rules in the past, but this time I meant it no doubt in my mind. I have had a hard time reading her reactions for a while now, and I wasn't sure how she reacted but it seemed to have a pretty strong impact. I know it has on me. I have been in much better control of my emotions since that moment.

She was out of town for the last 5 days on a spiritual retreat which involved 3 days of total silence. She was able to text me occasionally, but no talking to anyone. I told her of all the fun things the girls and I were doing while she was gone just to show we could survive without her (even though it was only 5 days). One of the places we went was a water park and I have not been to one without my wife since we married. It felt good. I caught several ladies checking me out, I mean girls/ladies in their twenties and thirties looking at me in ways they never did when I was their age. Gave me quite a confidence boost. I met with the friend she had disclosed the affair to and she advised I give my wife a letter to make sure she understood exactly what my expectations were so there would be no confusion. Our friend didn't think that my wife understood how close to walking away I had been. I gave her the letter right after we had a misunderstanding within 5 minutes of getting the kids in bed after picking her up from the airport. One of our cats was going insane and he tried to trip me. I sternly told him "Well you are just full of it aren't you." She thought I was talking to her and she nearly lost it.

Here is the letter. I borrowed heavily from the Consequence Letters on Marriage Builders.

"I regret the situation we have found ourselves in. I know neither of us expected to be here. We have talked about this, but I need to make sure that you fully understand my expectations moving forward and I have a hard time with getting emotional when we talk about us. I really thought when we sent the No Contact email that this was over. This last discovery of the hidden email account was very close to the end of the line for me and I will not tolerate one more instance of lying or deceit. You asked me not to throw away 12 years of marriage over this and I am not going to. I love you more deeply than I ever thought possible and I want to be your husband. I want to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, share the joy of raising a family with you, and I want to grow old with you, but I can’t and won’t do that if you are not honest with me. 

After the texts were first found in Texas, I told you I didn’t mind and that I thought we could use them. I meant read them together later, act them out make the fantasy come to life together. I thought I told you that same thing at a later time; I didn’t mind you talking to TOM as long as I could read what was going on. It has been a very confusing time for me and I have not been consistent. That is my fault; I don’t guess I was really ever good with it at all. I was trying to be the open minded cool husband and give you freedom to have these fantasies and it got out of control.

I do understand your desire to end things with TOM on your own terms. I don’t think I have ever tried to control anything you do except for ending the affair and if you had discussed this with me and disclosed the fact of the hidden email account, I might have agreed to wait until after his birthday. I expect going forward for there to be absolutely no contact of any kind with TOM ever. I also expect there to be no chatting, texting, emailing, or phone calls with other guys unless you make me aware of what is going on. I am going to live with these same rules as well. Neither of us should be saying things to a member of the opposite sex that we wouldn't say in front of each other.

There is to be full and open honesty between us. No lies, no deception, no hiding things. Good, bad, or ugly, we have to be open with each other even if it might hurt the other person’s feelings.

Everyone says we have a great marriage and I agree with them, I want it to be an even deeper connection. I know we have discussed His Needs Her Needs and you really don’t like the idea of the book, but I want you to read it. I also want us to read Getting The Love You Want. The primary goal of both these books is to help us meet each others emotional needs (even needs that we do not currently recognize we have) and build an even stronger connection than we have now. We are approved for counseling through our insurance and I want us to go meet with a counselor and see what their recommendations are. I also think we need to get the girls back to Sunday School and start attending Church services as well.

We can move on and have a deeply loving and committed marriage, we just can’t pretend that nothing happened. These are the things we need to fully commit to in order to put our marriage back on solid ground. 

You are my soul mate and I love you as only a husband can. I will do anything necessary to save and protect our marriage and family now and in the future."

She was very emotional as she read the letter. Said that she did understand all of that, that I had been very clear when I talked to her and she was willing to do whatever I wanted her to do to prove that she means it and is willing to work on our marriage. The retreat she had gone on was about dealing with emotional baggage and letting go and living in the present and I do think it helped her get a lot of fog out of her mind.

She has had the realization that TOM was probably doing this with other girls at the same time since I told her of the evidence of him doing it before. She said it makes her feel even dumber for falling for his line.

Tonight is Skate Night for my kids school. Usually I would just take the kids and she would stay home. I told her "I think you should come with us tonight, you don't have to skate if you don't want, but our friends will be there and it will be good for us to be around them together. People like you and want to be around you." No argument, just an OK we will go.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yay! So proud of you!


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

Wishing you and your good lady a wonderful future together.


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## stillalive (Sep 9, 2010)

I found out my husband had EA for 6 months with a woman, It has been 3 months and I am still angry. How to you get past this and move on with your life?


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