# Unforgiven and Out of Options...



## Un4given (9 mo ago)

Hello. I hope this message finds you all well. I'm submitting this because I have a deep need for some advice. I am admittedly out of gas, and I do not know what to do. 

I feel as if divorce is a growing option for me. 

Here is my story.

In October 2010, I had an emotional affair with another woman. Within the month, my spouse came into the knowledge of it, and I knew that it would take everything that I had to mend the relationship back with her. I did everything I could think to do at the moment of her finding. I got checked for STDs; I entered into counseling, and I even submitted to a lie detector test. At this time, I understood that I needed to change and improve if I could ever secure the relationship with my wife again. I had never cheated in my relationship before, or even in any relationship before. And this decision was contrary to all I knew and believed. I offer no excuses, I was wrong, and I have committed myself to live better. 

I tried everything I could to regain my wife's affection from that time. However, she has stated that she would never restore me, and she has proven true to this point. She won't divorce me; however, she will neither love me, sleep with me, nor undergo counseling. It has been over ten years since that event, and I can't think of anything else I can do to repair my bond with my wife. I don't want to divorce; however, I am so numb and neglected that I need new life and air. Please, help me. Any advice would be good. I'm desperate. Thanks for all you can do. 

Desperately Submitted,
Unforgiven


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Un4given said:


> Hello. I hope this message finds you all well. I'm submitting this because I have a deep need for some advice. I am admittedly out of gas, and I do not know what to do.
> 
> I feel as if divorce is a growing option for me.
> 
> ...


Reconciliation takes two. It is a long, hard journey that takes years and no one can answer the "how long should I try" question for you. However... if there has been zero progress in 11½ years, it's time to end it. You aren't reconciling, just torturing yourselves.


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## Un4given (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Reconciliation takes two. It is a long, hard journey that takes years and no one can answer the "how long should I try" question for you. However... if there has been zero progress in 11½ years, it's time to end it. You aren't reconciling, just torturing yourselves.


Thanks, Bobert. I went and read your post from 2018, and it floored me. If you don't mind me asking? How are things with you all now? Did you finally divorce? And if so, how did you carry on afterward? I'm new to this, so I pray not to be too intrusive. I know that I am desperate.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Honestly, I can't understand individuals like you. I mean, I don't want to sound condescending or mean to you, but dude, come on. I can understand 2-3 years trying to mend the relationship, but staying for over 10? that's pathetic. Regardless if you ****ed up the relationship or not, your wife left the relationship long time ago and you are still like a pathetic idiot trying to get her back. Dude, that's so beta. 

What you never understood is that she lost all respect for you, all emotions for you other than contempt, and here you are, still after over 10 years being/acting like the supplicant, pathetic beta male trying to get her back. Don't you understand that when you become the "pick me dance" guy, women don't like that and lose all respect? 

A relationship requires two individuals, here we only have you. Now is the time to stop wasting you life in a miserable fool's errant. It's time for you to man-up, grab your balls, and just present her with divorce papers. It's over get that down. I bet you that when you present her with the papers she won't even bat an eye. Have some pride dude and end it.


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## Un4given (9 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> Honestly, I can't understand individuals like you. I mean, I don't want to sound condescending or mean to you, but dude, come on. I can understand 2-3 years trying to mend the relationship, but staying for over 10? that's pathetic. Regardless if you ****ed up the relationship or not, your wife left the relationship long time ago and you are still like a pathetic idiot trying to get her back. Dude, that's so beta.
> 
> What you never understood is that she lost all respect for you, all emotions for you other than contempt, and here you are, still after over 10 years being/acting like the supplicant, pathetic beta male trying to get her back. Don't you understand that when you become the "pick me dance" guy, women don't like that and lose all respect?
> 
> A relationship requires two individuals, here we only have you. Now is the time to stop wasting you life in a miserable fool's errant. It's time for you to man-up, grab your balls, and just present her with divorce papers. It's over get that down. I bet you that when you present her with the papers she won't even bat an eye. Have some pride dude and end it.


That was tough, and in all honesty, I admit that I needed to hear it. I stay for a few reasons. For starters, I'm a pastor and I have 2 kids. I provide for my family this way and divorce are all but career-ending for me. I know God is able to provide for me; however, I do enjoy the life that my kids are able to have with us together and I do hate the thought of it ending. All in all, your words are important, true, heart jarring, and honest. Thanks for your honesty, Rob.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It’s not uncommon for people to stay in situations like this.
You stay because you want to. It’s been 10 years. Where do you want to be in the next 5 years? 
It’s your choice. She has told you and more importantly shown you what you need to know.
There is no magic fix. Life isn’t necessarily fair. You ether deal with it or not.


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## Un4given (9 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> It’s not uncommon for people to stay in situations like this.
> You stay because you want to. It’s been 10 years. Where do you want to be in the next 5 years?
> It’s your choice. She has told you and more importantly shown you what you need to know.
> There is no magic fix. Life isn’t necessarily fair. You ether deal with it or not.


Very true, thanks for this reminder, Marc. Very needed.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Un4given said:


> Thanks, Bobert. I went and read your post from 2018, and it floored me. If you don't mind me asking? How are things with you all now? Did you finally divorce? And if so, how did you carry on afterward? I'm new to this, so I pray not to be too intrusive. I know that I am desperate.


My wife and I are still together. 

I would say that we have made progress in reconciling, albeit very slowly - or at least that's how it feels. There is no roadmap to know how long it should take or where you should be at what point. Our circumstances played a role in delaying things, but a lot of the reasoning is on me. I didn't want to do the work that was necessary as a betrayed spouse and as a messed up human being, and I also went and made everything worse by cheating on her more than once which sort of restarts the clock each time. I think we would be farther along if I didn't do that. 

My wife's therapist used to tell her to wait until the two year mark, and if nothing changed it was time to end it. I think we just barely scraped by that requirement (though she wouldn't have left anyway), and I know her therapists and psych doctor tell her to end the marriage. Maybe she should, I don't know but at least we're making progress even if it's slow, stops and starts, and keeps taking several steps back. If you aren't moving at all, there is likely only one move left for you to make...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

bobert said:


> My wife and I are still together.
> 
> I would say that we have made progress in reconciling, albeit very slowly - or at least that's how it feels. There is no roadmap to know how long it should take or where you should be at what point. Our circumstances played a role in delaying things, but a lot of the reasoning is on me. I didn't want to do the work that was necessary as a betrayed spouse and as a messed up human being, and I also went and made everything worse by cheating on her more than once which sort of restarts the clock each time. I think we would be farther along if I didn't do that.
> 
> My wife's therapist used to tell her to wait until the two year mark, and if nothing changed it was time to end it. I think we just barely scraped by that requirement (though she wouldn't have left anyway), and I know her therapists and psych doctor tell her to end the marriage. Maybe she should, I don't know but at least we're making progress even if it's slow, stops and starts, and keeps taking several steps back. If you aren't moving at all, there is likely only one move left for you to make...


It’s sounds like the marriage ended. You just have what’s left on paper.
If it’s a deal breaker for her you can’t fix that.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Un4given said:


> That was tough, and in all honesty, I admit that I needed to hear it. I stay for a few reasons. For starters, I'm a pastor and I have 2 kids. I provide for my family this way and divorce are all but career-ending for me. I know God is able to provide for me; however, I do enjoy the life that my kids are able to have with us together and I do hate the thought of it ending. All in all, your words are important, true, heart jarring, and honest. Thanks for your honesty, Rob.


My words are not intended to put down a man that is already down, but like a 2x4 to try to shock the intended to the core, in the hope that that wakes them up and makes them get some senses and and a dose of reality. Having said that, since I have no dealings at all with organized religion, and therefore I'm ignorant to their wheeling's & dealings, but one thing I know is that pastors divorce all the time, so I'm curious to understand how divorce would be a career's ending for a pastor. I've read about much, much worse things being done by some of those religious leaders and most of them as far as I know they are still there. 

To me, it sounds as you being afraid. Moreover, divorce does not means losing your kids, not if you're a responsible parent. 50/50 is the standard these days.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I've known a few people who were cheated on in their marriages, and it's like it became their mission to not divorce but rather ''punish'' their spouses for the rest of their days. It's not a way to live your life, and if your wife is not able to forgive you, that isn't healthy on her part either...to stay in a marriage for convenience and money. (from the sounds of it) I don't know you or her of course, only what you're sharing, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to seek legal counsel ...never know, your options might be encouraging. You don't need to feel like you deserve punishment for the rest of your life. You sound contrite, sorry this is happening.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Assuming your wife is also a Christian she must know that forgiveness isn't optional. She clearly hasn't forgiven you and seems to want to give you a lifelong punishment. Ok the emotional affair was very wrong but it wasn't physical presumably and was very short. If she won't forgive and can't or won't do anything to improve things it's hard to see how the marriage can ever be healed. If that is the case it would have been better if she had ended it back then. 
Have you sought help/guidance from someone you trust in the church or in another church? 
The children are getting a terrible example of what a marriage should be as well. 

What do you feel God is saying to you about it?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Why would you get tested for STDs after an emotional affair?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Un4given said:


> She won't divorce me; however, she will neither love me, sleep with me, nor undergo counseling.


This is not a marriage -- this is her continuing to punish you for your EA. This is NOT a reconciliation AT ALL.
Since she clearly does not want to ever forgive you, but instead torture you for this, is it really worth it to stay in this non-relationship?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Why would you get tested for STDs after an emotional affair?


Maybe his wife didn't believe it wasn't physical and demanded it?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Un4given said:


> Hello. I hope this message finds you all well. I'm submitting this because I have a deep need for some advice. I am admittedly out of gas, and I do not know what to do.
> 
> I feel as if divorce is a growing option for me.
> 
> ...


I think you pretty much covered it. Either live with your life as it is or divorce. Those are your choices, I don't think anyone here can help you because it's all up to your wife.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Jesus ain’t gonna save ya dawg. You gotta man up and do it yourself. You can assign your complete lack of action to Jesus, pastor, church, solar flares, high tides, locust, full moon, vampires, the devil or worst yet Democrats but the bottom line is you are the problem because you are stuck in fear. You are accepting a life of garbage because of that fear. Anyways aren’t you god fearing people supposed to hate yourselves for eternity due to your sins?? Looks like you are half way there….

The Bottom Line: There is no magic pill or words. Either get it done… or don’t.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

is it possibly because you failed twice?

You broke your marriage vows to her, and she is still mad/sad about that.
But you also broke your religious convictions, by having an affair even though you were supposed to be a Pastor and should have been able to resist that moral temptation. So in that, you were proven to not be the truthful and righteous man she THOUGH she had married. It might be that 2nd thing that is preventing her from reconciling...you are not the man she married. 

Have you done anything in the past ten years to prove her wrong? Such as going on sabatical to help starving children in Haiti for two years, etc? Something to allow her to look at you again with proud eyes?

I get it, we are all human, and subject to human temptations. So DO something to prove to her you deserve forgiveness!


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Do both of yourselves a favor and get a divorce. Your wife can't be that happy either, she doesn't want to be the one to initiate it.

As someone else said, I can't believe it's been 10 years. Think of all that time of your short life wasted. Don't waste another day. Start your plan NOW!


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

You are going to have to divorce. Cheating is tantamount to mental abuse because the thoughts of the betrayal will never go away unless divorce happens. I'm not saying that people can't reconcile, but make no mistake, even if you did, she'd relive what you did in her mind once in a while.

If you say you want to divorce, she might try to forgive and go to counseling if divorce is not something she wants to go through. I don't say this as a way to blackmail her into doing what you want, because honestly, what you want after what you did is not the primary consideration is. Her healing is. To set her free, you might be the one that has to initiate it. She doesn't want to divorce, but she isn't thinking clearly and likely doesn't know what is best for her.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

You haven't had sex with her for ten years?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I think you have to sit her down and say that unless she can finally forgive you and move on after 10 years it's best that the marriage ends. I mean she cant be happy. Hanging on to unforgiveness and bitterness is so damaging. Punishing someone for 10 years is just pointless. If she can't or won't forgive it's probably best that you both move on. 
I hope that if she realizes you are serious she may agree to MC and working on improving things.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Maybe his wife didn't believe it wasn't physical and demanded it?


That was what I thought too. I'd like an answer from him, I think it will be telling.

I have a friend who had an emotional affair. (I love her like a sister, but I don't believe her, I think she slept with him). She and her (serially unfaithful) husband stayed together because "Catholics don't believe in divorce." He has made every moment of her life a living hell ever since it happened. She is miserable, he is cruel, his family is cruel. She is cut off from everyone, she can't go on girl's nights, when she comes to my house to spend time with me he's texting her constantly, picking fights to make her leave. He cheats on her, still, constantly, because "it's different when men do it." It sounds like this guy's wife is doing that to him, except she's probably not sleeping around.

When someone is unfaithful, I don't see a path back. I know many people recover from it, and I respect their strength and willingness to forget what someone has done to them. But it takes specific people with a specific kind of relationship and a lot of mutual work, and I'm certain I couldn't ever get over it. 

I wonder if there is 1. more to the story than Mr. Pastor is sharing and 2. if there isn't a sense of martyrdom in his staying. If he truly does feel guilty about what he did, he could be staying because he doesn't feel he deserves happiness after what he's done. I feel bad for both of them, because he betrayed her and now both their lives are miserable.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Un4given said:


> Hello. I hope this message finds you all well. I'm submitting this because I have a deep need for some advice. I am admittedly out of gas, and I do not know what to do.
> 
> I feel as if divorce is a growing option for me.
> 
> ...


How long have you been married altogether? Infidelity is hard to work through as a couple. Respect, Love and trust are all broken with that one act of selfishness...whether it happened one time or for several years. My H cheated on me while each time I was pregnant with our kids..the first time I know was physical and the 2nd time I only had proof of an emotional affair but I wouldnt doubt he slept with her too. The 1st time was over 12 years ago and that wound still runs deep, it left a massive scar and destroyed the unconditional love I had previously had for my H.. We both decided to work things through but for many years I put no effort on my end and our marriage became empty and hollow feeling. One night after a fight H said to me "are you going to punish me forever?" I felt no sympathy for him at all..but when I stepped back and looked at how I was also punishing myself by living like this..I then told myself it was time I either "let that **** go or let him go". I do not forgive him, I do not forget what he is capable of doing and it has forever tainted my love for him...but I have decided that I will let it go, it is in the past and I will not punish myself by reliving his infidelities in my head every other day. In THAT area of our marriage we have now made significant strides..tho there are other issues and dynamics that cause problems and unhappiness within it. My point is..is that I had to choose if I wanted it to work or not...he was already trying to fix what he destroyed..I was not and we were getting nowhere. You appear to be the only one fighting to save or work on things and it requires the both of you. I would talk to her about this, maybe even get some Marriage counseling..because if she is not willing to try then you are spinning your wheels and wasting both your lives.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Un4given said:


> That was tough, and in all honesty, I admit that I needed to hear it. I stay for a few reasons. For starters, I'm a pastor and I have 2 kids. I provide for my family this way and divorce are all but career-ending for me. I know God is able to provide for me; however, I do enjoy the life that my kids are able to have with us together and I do hate the thought of it ending. All in all, your words are important, true, heart jarring, and honest. Thanks for your honesty, Rob.


Since you're a pastor I think you can understand why your wife can never restore you, as you put it. Her faith in you has been destroyed. Her faithful love has been destroyed. I'm assuming that to let you back in her bed would be against her principles under those circumstances. 

If I were either of you, I would get a divorce. Seems you both feel strongly in staying married, and I'm assuming that has to do with your religious beliefs in addition to the children. 

Maybe getting a divorce would be easier for you if you considered a change in career. You just have to decide what your priority is.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Un4given said:


> a) I provide for my family this way and divorce are all but career-ending for me.
> 
> b)I know God is able to provide for me;


Which career, the one that gives you a title and a pulpit?
Or, one that pays the bills and physically sustains you in life.

If you remain a Pastor in that church, you will be fired if you divorce.

If you remain in your marriage, you will be forever miserable, you will be a very minor, an unknown Martyr, a Prophet for the Weak, not for the Meek. 

If you divorce you will have to get another job.
You will be like the rest of the poor souls that sit in your pews.

I get it, a job is a job, being a Pastor is a calling.
Those looking in, from our vantage point see this fool trapped by his love for status.

Human Justice calls out for you to be happy.
By God, you have done your penance, and you have earned your freedom from oppression.

You were not put on the Earth to be miserable, in your case, that is on you, it has been your call.

Give life a chance, your wife has no giving left in her (for you).

Move on from your wife.

Do not berate her, she simply cannot forgive, she too, is trapped in the past.

Never think your life is over due to a career change.
Other churches may take you on.

Or, go into some field that interests you, one that you can enjoy.

Life goes on, so does misery, if you let it.


_Are Dee-_


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That was what I thought too. I'd like an answer from him, I think it will be telling.
> 
> I have a friend who had an emotional affair. (I love her like a sister, but I don't believe her, I think she slept with him). She and her (serially unfaithful) husband stayed together because "Catholics don't believe in divorce." He has made every moment of her life a living hell ever since it happened. She is miserable, he is cruel, his family is cruel. She is cut off from everyone, she can't go on girl's nights, when she comes to my house to spend time with me he's texting her constantly, picking fights to make her leave. He cheats on her, still, constantly, because "it's different when men do it." It sounds like this guy's wife is doing that to him, except she's probably not sleeping around.
> 
> ...


Honestly your friend should just start doing her own thing -- ignore her H, and start cheating herself. What her H is doing is absolutely abusive, and if she won't get out, then she needs to retaliate. What's good for the goose, etc..
She needs to seek help from her Church to understand about divorce.... The Church wouldn't want her to be in such an abusive relationship...


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> Honestly your friend should just start doing her own thing -- ignore her H, and start cheating herself. What her H is doing is absolutely abusive, and if she won't get out, then she needs to retaliate. What's good for the goose, etc..
> She needs to seek help from her Church to understand about divorce.... The Church wouldn't want her to be in such an abusive relationship...


They have children, and he convinced her to quit her job so she couldn't leave. (with me freaking out and telling her don't do it) And please, the church does not help women in abusive relationships. She's his submissive and they blame her, since she was unfaithful. The church is the biggest reason why she stays, because they told her everything is her fault, including his infidelity. She won't listen to me, she won't leave him. She knows if she showed up at my house with her girls and one tiny bruise, my husband would make him VERY sorry he touched her. VERY sorry. He'd do it to keep me from shoving a shotgun up his ass as much as anything, that POS isn't worth my spending my life in jail. He's emotionally abusive and unfaithful, but he isn't hitting her. She is choosing to stay and all I can do is be there for her in every way I can.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Well, since it's been ten years, stay with her and keep the family together until your youngest child turns 18. After that, if you and your wife want to split, then do so. But your kids had nothing to do with this issue so don't trash their lives on top of yours and your wife's.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The church is the biggest reason why she stays, because they told her everything is her fault, including his infidelity.


This is CERTAINLY not the stance of the Catholic Church. She should go to the bishop of the diocese if that is what she is getting from her parish priests. That is flat out BS.
So, let her go back and get a job NOW. Either that or start squirreling money away for herself....


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> So, let her go back and get a job NOW. Either that or start squirreling money away for herself....


If she wants out, she knows we are here. She is an adult. Not only will we keep them here but we will protect them. 

He is very sweet to his three girls. He's not a bad father, he just has that traditional view that kids are the woman's responsibility so he does nothing practical with them. He will play with them here and there but is largely absent, so the girls are in no danger.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If she wants out, she knows we are here. She is an adult. Not only will we keep them here but we will protect them.
> 
> He is very sweet to his three girls. He's not a bad father, he just has that traditional view that kids are the woman's responsibility so he does nothing practical with them. He will play with them here and there but is largely absent, so the girls are in no danger.


I do have to say that he is NOT a good father. A good father wouldn't do that sh*t to his wife. What a GREAT example of a H he is showing his girls....


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> I do have to say that he is NOT a good father. A good father wouldn't do that sh*t to his wife. What a GREAT example of a H he is showing his girls....


I very specifically didn't say he was a good father, I said he's not a BAD father. Because he's not a good father. But this is a threadjack, so let's stop here.


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## Un4given (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Why would you get tested for STDs after an emotional affair?


The response given was correct; she didn't believe me. These posts have been convicting; they have been a lot to process and take in. Thanks to all who shared.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Un4given said:


> The response given was correct; she didn't believe me. These posts have been convicting; they have been a lot to process and take in. Thanks to all who shared.


I don’t defend what you did, but I also don’t defend her. Reconciliation is just that. She neither forgave nor forgot. I understand her feelings, but it is wrong to have spent the last decade torturing both you and herself. And there is no way the children don’t know their mother doesn’t love their father any more.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

thunderchad said:


> Do both of yourselves a favor and get a divorce. Your wife can't be that happy either, she doesn't want to be the one to initiate it.
> 
> As someone else said, I can't believe it's been 10 years. Think of all that time of your short life wasted. Don't waste another day. Start your plan NOW!


10 years is a chunk of life. Probably 10%.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

No threadjacks please


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Un4given said:


> That was tough, and in all honesty, I admit that I needed to hear it. I stay for a few reasons. For starters, I'm a pastor and I have 2 kids. I provide for my family this way and divorce are all but career-ending for me. I know God is able to provide for me; however, I do enjoy the life that my kids are able to have with us together and I do hate the thought of it ending. All in all, your words are important, true, heart jarring, and honest. Thanks for your honesty, Rob.


If you are a pastor, what are your biblical reasons for divorce? You are the one who committed adultery. I would be interested to know the answer to this difficult question. What has your wife done that is grounds for divorce? not loving you, not sleeping with you, not forgiving you? None of those are in the bible. Sadly neither is emotional neglect or emotional abuse.


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