# Seeking guidance



## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

My story is like many others. My wife and I have been together for 12 years, married for 9. We have a 6 year old little girl that is the sole focus of my wife and I both. Our issues are that we have become disconnected from each other both emotionally and physically over the last few years. My biggest problem is that I love to argue. That is a revolving conflict that my wife and I have. I am often hypercritical of everything and everyone. My wifes issue is loves to party and socialize with friends, either with me or without me. She has several single friends that she likes to go along with on "girl nights". We butt heads on these two problems very often. Along with those two big obstacles, my wife also feels that I do not validate her or boost her self image. She says she no longer feels love or has love for me to give. She feels she is all alone in our relationship. We have had many fights, emails and conversations about things needing to change, but neither one of us has made an active effort. All we have done, up until now, are stomp out feet, beat our chest and say "things have to change". 

About a month ago my wife said she had been doing some soul searching and realized that she may want to separate. I instantly went into survival mode, trying to talk her out of it, booking sessions for marriage counseling, anything I could to save our seemingly perfect life. Originally she was reluctant, saying that it might be too little too late. I know that is a sign of possible infidelity, but I have scoured every person, every contact and directly spoke to her about that very possibility. I think, at least at this time, that there are no posOM. 

During our first counseling session my wife stated that she was 95% through with the marriage because she thought we had both changed so much and wouldn't be able to reconnect in the way we once were. Our MC suggested that we go home, build a line of communication on happy things, just be nice to each other and avoid any conflict for the time being. I tried very hard for one week, my wife did not based on the fact that she felt she would be "pretending" to like/love me. After the first 5 days, I felt resentful of her not trying and I started to lash out. I would follow that up by being extremely nice. Making her breakfast, shopping, flower, basically kissing her tail end and begging for her forgiveness. That scenario has become a revolving door over the last few weeks. I am overly nice, she doesn’t respond, I get angry and lash out, she closes off more and more. It's totally destructive and I realize that.

We separated two weeks ago....kind of. We decided to leave our 6 year old in the house full time, to give her some stability through all of this. When I have my time with our daughter, I live in the house. When my wife has her time with our daughter, she stays in the house. None of our finances or marriage dynamic has changed, other than we sleep and eat in other locations. I will drop in often to our house when my wife is staying there. She doesn’t do the same, but the option is open to her to do so. We speak on the phone often and text several times a day. My wife set in place a 3 month separation plan, with no real plan or goals, to work on individual counseling. We are both now in IC, and we have stopped the marriage counseling all together, after the second visit when I moved out.

So I am at a crossroads. Just like every spouse on here it seems, I am codependent, want my life back, love my wife and can’t imagine not coming back to the way things were. I know I can change my ways in our relationship. My issues are built on insecurities that I know I can conquer. I mean how hard can it really be to tell my wife she is beautiful and be more supportive. She is beautiful and I want to tell her that. I just haven't in the last few years because I feel like we have been in this constant score keeping event. I didn't want to open myself up. She on the other hand seems fairly firm on her conviction that our marriage may not be savable. Her constant reply to my begging and pleading for answers is, "I don't know". She is not ready to divorce me yet, she isn't ready to try reconciling and she doesn't know where she wants to head with this. She's completely lost.

I have read a bit about the marriage 180. I have read a book by Homer macDonald called' Stop your Divorce. I have read a book called, The relationship cure by John Gottman. I watched a movie called fireproof, that seemed like it was documenting parts of our relationship. All of it makes sense, but I am not sure what approach to take. I realize I have to work on myself and I am already making strides to do that. I am giong to make myself happy, been spending lots of quality time with my daughter and trying to be more positive with my life. 

I KNOW my wife and I can change our dynamic and make this relationship work. Our issues seem so minute in comparison to some things married couples are faced with. I just need to get her to open up just a little bit, and I feel she wants to deep down. If she would just come around a little bit, we would be able to work forward. I just don't know how to reach her before it's too late.

Looking forward to some advice on how to handle my interactions with her for the time being. I do not want to do any unintentinal damage, at least not more than I have already done. I am keeping up hope that ours will be one of those, "Success stories".


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

I reached out to Divorce busters, and went through my first telephone coaching session. It was pretty insightful and gave me hope that we can reconnect. I am also going to indidual counseling to work on myself.....crossing my fingers and keeping an open mind.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

suckerpunch said:


> I reached out to Divorce busters, and went through my first telephone coaching session. It was pretty insightful and gave me hope that we can reconnect. I am also going to indidual counseling to work on myself.....crossing my fingers and keeping an open mind.


Good! Keep us informed how things go. :smthumbup:


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Suckerpunch,

Regardless of the outcome with your wife, keep working on yourself!

As it is often said here, the only ones we have the power to change is ourselves!

Good luck!


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

I truly understand that, but it is difficult for me to even breath at the moment. The emotions and feelings that I am experiencing are so much stronger than I ever thought they could be. Mostly, I am struggling with the confusion over why my wife has such a strong conviction to leave. She is not even willing to consider trying at this point. We have an open line of communication, but her mind is made up. She is pushing away her close friends, family and anyone that doesn't support her wish to run away. That hurts more than words can express. I am sure you all know this from your own experiences.....working on myself...or anything...seems like an impossibility.


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

I spoke with a pastor from the church my wife and daughter recently started attending. I am going to see him about some counseling for myself. I know pursuing reconiliation with my wife is only pushing her away more. It is time to start focusing on building ME into a better person, for myself and for my daughter.

Here is an email example of where we are at.



> WIFE: I want you to know I don't hate you and I never will. You are a good man and a great Dad. You and I just lost our way and grew apart into two people that aren't compatible. I hate seeing you hurting and wish I could take that away from you. Unfortunately I can't offer you what you want from me  I hope you understand that. I am working on me and trying to be happy. I know that the things I need to change about me to make "us" work, I am not ready or wanting to change. I am really sorry. I see you trying. The little things you are doing for (daughter) are huge. The fun times, new experiences, right down to the flowers. That is the stuff Taylor needs to see from her Daddy. When I am around she doesn't get that


My reply to her was basically me stating that I am working on myself and that she she could also work towards fixing our issues. They really are not big obstacles. I also expressed that should consider the best actions for our entire family. She wasn't very responsive to that.


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## Dewayne76 (Sep 26, 2012)

I feel ya SP. Let me itterate what my wife said. 

"I love you, I will always love you. You're a good man and a great daddy. But sometime between our blow up and my cheating, something happened and I'm not attracted to you anymore. I don't want you. I don't want a life with you. I don't want this anymore. Not right now" 

When things were great and we were building a great future for us, suddenly a small argument about who we're spending time with (that was the argument, for real) and her cheating with a 19 yo changed 11 years. 

They're not gonna be very responsive. Not until they realize things. And it's my understanding it can be a long time before they do. 

Hope you start feeling better soon.


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

Here is my actual reply if anyone likes long reads....



> I am working on me. The new niceties I am doing for (daughter) are because of that. I have so much more clarity on how I need to treat the ones I love and care for. I got very negligent with my family, thinking that love is just something that is there and needed no work to keep. I feel stupid even saying that now. Don't get me wrong, you have your issues too, I would be lying if I said I wasn't upset that you are unwilling to work on our compatibility. It is great however that you are working on your own happiness.. That is something that NO person can offer you. That has to come from within. If our family is never to come together again, I am willing to accept that. That is not to say that I would prefer to have our family unit split up. I don't, but if you feel that you and Taylor would have a happier life without me, then that is a choice you have to make. I just ask that you please make the best choice for all of us. If you are willing, do some research on couples that lose connection and still decide to stay in the relationship. 68% that do actually rate their marriages as being "very good" when asked 5 years later. Life and family dynamic is always changing. We could very easily be happy and in love by this time next year, but perhaps not. The only for sure gurantee is moving on with separation or divorce. I personally don't want to look back in a year, 3 years or even 10 and realize that we made the wrong choice. Soooo many people that split realize that later on. Don't take any of this as a sales pitch. Its a decision you have to make for yourself. I just want you to know that I am willing to change my actions, not who I am, but how I handle how I show the love for the people in my life. You can do the same. Actually, you would have to if you ever wanted happiness. There is a great question that a group of psychologists asked children when asked whether it was better for mom and dad to be unhappy and married or to be happy and divorced. The kids would not choose, and they would provide their own answers. I want mommy and daddy to be happy and stay married.....that's something to think about. We can be happy. I KNOW we can. I just hope you can be open to that way of thinking....good luck on your journey of self discovery. I want what is best.
> 
> I read back through your message. I really don't understand what core fundamentals about you, that you feel you would have to give up or change to make me happy? I feel that is a huge miscommunication between us. I don't want you to change the person you are. I just want us both to be willing to change how we treat each other. Those are actions and will actually help support happiness. They aren't changes to who we are. I think you believe I need you to stay home, cooking and cleaning. That couldn't be any farther from the truth. The day you stop dancing and wanting to socialize will be the day I know I lost the real you. I don't want a different Bobbie. I just want a happy you. Running away from our family unit will not make you happy. This is something I am absolutely positive about. You will have to find your own happiness, whether its in this marriage or your next one. If you don't, nothing will ever change and you will be in this position over and over again. I need to do the same, and I KNOW that changing my family dynamic, providing a lesser life for you and Taylor, all of the sorrow that EVERY divorced couple experience, isn't the magic bullet to find my happiness. It will more than likely make my future worse......anyway, I just wanted to be clear that i do not have those expectations from you


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

Thanks Dewayne,

I have one thing in the posititve; neither one of us have been unfaithful....at least not yet. I am pushing her so hard because I don't want that possibility to become a reality. I am learning now, the more I push, the farther away we will become. But at the same time, I figure the longer we are apart, the more the chance of that happening. I can't control my patience or my fears :-(


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

suckerpunch said:


> Here is my actual reply if anyone likes long reads....


Sounds too much like you are begging and pleading. I know I wrote a similar email to my wife when this all happened. If her mind is made up this kind of pleading will only make you appear weak and push her further away.

My wife was going out a lot with her friends and told me she didn't want to be married anymore. Didn't want to seek help. Just goodbye thanks for the last 13 years. Anyway I tried to do the 180, tried pleading not to break us up and finally figured out no matter what I did her mind was made up. 

The 180 is suppose to make you into a better person and make her realize what she is losing and who she originally fell in love with. In my case I know there is another man. Though she says he's only a friend. She may not have done anything with him, but just the thought in her head that she wants to pursue a new relationship I think was enough for her to want a divorce. Its always easier to run into the arms of someone else then work on marital problems. A great and happy long term marriage takes hard work and dedication. 

There are many reasons to why someone wants to leave a marriage. I'm not saying your wife has someone in mind nor do i pretend to know why she has made this choice. 

Just take care of yourself and work on bettering yourself as a man and a person is the best advice I've seen on these forums. Over analyzing stuff will leave you just as confused as when you started.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

suckerpunch said:


> I truly understand that, but it is difficult for me to even breath at the moment. The emotions and feelings that I am experiencing are so much stronger than I ever thought they could be. Mostly, I am struggling with the confusion over why my wife has such a strong conviction to leave. She is not even willing to consider trying at this point. We have an open line of communication, but her mind is made up. She is pushing away her close friends, family and anyone that doesn't support her wish to run away. That hurts more than words can express. I am sure you all know this from your own experiences.....working on myself...or anything...seems like an impossibility.


SP,

This story sounds like so many her on TAM, inlcuding mine, my W is out partying with her friends when she does not have the kids. She only surrounds herself with friends that support her decision. She does NOT want to talk about our marriage at all. She blames me for everything. She has said essentially that she is "done" that she tried for the last 1.5years, feels that was enuff. 

You have to understand that there is no reasoning with them, you only make things worse. Your best bet is to do NOTHING. Yup, NOTHING. Walk away, do not talk about you M. Make her intiate contact with you. I know it is hard, i struggled with this too, but as many on her will attest, this serves mutliple purposes.

Also go the the gym or excersise, it really helps with the stress and anxiety. Alot of people her say focus on yourself, i cannot emphasize this enuff. You need to gain your confidence back, become the alpha, become attractive to the market. Hard as heck, but has to be done for YOU. 

In time you will see why this helps. At some point you will be ok with the breakup, becasue a confident person knows that when one door closes another opens. 

You are not alone, many of us here are going throught the same thing. Myself, my W walked out on me and my 2 little boys, made every excuse possible how this was better. Once i realized that i cannot change someones feelings, but i can make my self the best me that i can be, then you see from a different paradigm. You will understand that hey i am better than that and i and my children deserve better. Not saying if you R that is great, but it must be on YOUR terms. Dont be a doormat!

I hope this helps, come here to vent. Do not fall into her trap, give her what she wants. Trust me you will be better in the long term no matter what happens.


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I know I need to focus on myself and improve. I am sure with a little time that will be easier. The reality of this all is only a few weeks in, so I am still swimming with emotion. I feel that my wife is just tired of the lack of affection I have showed her the last several years....plus we argue, then the arguing and neglect gets worse. I think most of our problems stem from that circle of conflict. I am still holding on to high hopes of her snapping out of her fog. However, the more I read on here, that sounds like it is pretty unlikely. That's discouraging. I never realized how fragile love was until now.

On the flip side, I ran into an old GF online, not a real romantic interest (never even kissed), just a girl I hung out with for a bit. I initiated a conversation and come to find out she is going through a very similar thing. Actually, no...her situation sounds even worse. Anyway, we spoke for a while about life and separation. We shared a couple old stories. Afterwards, I actually felt really good for most of the day. Just speaking with a woman going through something similiar seemed to really pick my spirits up. I hope it did the same for her. We are going to stay in touch and share our experiences as we go through this. Might be a bad idea; I don't know. I am open for input on that.


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

It's been a while since I posted. Things haven't changed much, if at all. My wife still is non-interested in working on our relationship. I did approach her and expressed that I was a changed man, which I am, and that I would be able to be the husband that she has always wanted. Of course, she was skeptical of this and unbelieving. I understood that, even expected it, but I told her that it was the truth and gave her my word. I asked that she really think about what I was saying for a few days to let it soak in. She agreed to think about it. She expressed that she was scared to open her heart to me in fear that life would go back the the way it has been for the last few years. She is worried about getting hurt even deeper, yet she continues to hurt me so horribly. She says she hates hurting me, but she is not in a place to want to come back to the relationship. She says she doesn't know if that will ever change. With that said, I am going to back way off and let her work things out in her own time. I feel this is my only reasonable approach. She is currently making plans to go off and party all weekend, while I watch our daughter. It saddens me that she has not fully considered (or possibly just disregarded), the implications that my daughter will experience if we are to permanently separate or divorce. All she says is, "kids are resilient, she will be fine". I cannot believe my life has come to this....


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

> I feel this is my only reasonable approach. She is currently making plans to go off and party all weekend, while I watch our daughter. It saddens me that she has not fully considered (or possibly just disregarded), the implications that my daughter will experience if we are to permanently separate or divorce. All she says is, *"kids are resilient, she will be fine"*. I cannot believe my life has come to this



Lol, this is crazy, it proves that W are all alike, my STBXW said this *same* thing!! It is bull crap. Plus my W has been parting while i have the kids on the weekend. 

SP - please listen carefully, you must stop trying to convince her that your have changed, making promises, and reassuring her that it will be different! 

You are surrendering all your power, and she knows that. You must gain confidence and no matter what happened SHOW her that you are a better man.

I have the same feelings that you have, "what about the kids". You must stop thinking that way, as it will cause more pain. 

This will take time and you must be consisitent. It is time to retreat, regroup, and rebuild.

180, NC/LC, work on you, gym, excerise, keep in the dark of what you are doing, redo yourself, move on, get a life, go out, act happy, let her go (very hard), ... it is time! 

Now get to work!


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

My W is running a 1/2 marathon this weekend. My daughter and I had planned to go out with "Go Mom" signs, to support her from the sidelines. However, given our circumstances I am not sure if it's a good idea or not. I would love to hear some input.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Do not go!


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

Yes, do not go.


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

Not even from a distance, huh? I thought we could just do the signs, then get in the car and leave.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

Sp, she is divorcing you correct? 

If so, then why would you support her decision to do so, she wants a life w/o you?

Let her go. I know its sounds crazy, but let her go.


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

Welll...she's never threatened to divorce me. We are currently doing a 3 mo. trial separation, and I feel that is mainy because I forced her hand in making a decision. In all honesty, I am the only one who has ever threatened Divorce....I regret that every minute of every day.

Point taken though, we will keep our distance and concentrate on my 180's


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

Don't give her so much power! Although seperations, if used correctly, can be beneficial are not to be taken lightly.

She needs to miss you and know what life would be like as a single mother.

Dont blame yourself!


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## suckerpunch (Nov 25, 2012)

Well, that's just it. I agreed to this arangement without really considering the logistics. We are sharing our home. When I have my daughter, I stay in the house. my wife stays in a nice studio apartment I have over my business, roughly 500 feet away. When my wife has my daughter she stays in the house and I move in with my Mom, roughly 300 feet away. Our finances haven't changed. My wife is still paying the bills from our joint checking account. In retrospect, I realize this was stupid of me to agree to, but I did it and I can't really go back on my word now. With that being said, my wife has a pretty kickass lifestyle. Comfy living conditions, plenty of money and nobody to answer to. Her days without our daughter, she has a built in baby sitter (me) so she can go out and play with her single friends. It's just a matter of time before she awakens to a scary reality. Jan. 10th and the rules change DRAMATICALLY.


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