# Problem with OSF is not just a TAM phenomenon



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

There are dire warnings on TAM about not allowing opposite sex friends, and some posters who scoff at that. This is why you shouldn't.

Survey says half of all married women have a ‘backup husband’ in mind - Love & Sex in SF

1000 married women surveyed, 500 have a backup husband in mind, 250 have feelings as strong for the backup as for the spouse.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't agree with the conclusion that you shouldn't 'allow' opposite sex friends.

1) A backup is not necessarily going to replace a happy relationship. If the relationship fails and they get with an old flame, it's no longer your problem anyway.

2) Having clear expectations is different to dictating to your spouse what you expect from them. If you choose to date someone, then marry someone, who cannot meet your expectations, you just made a choice that will come with consequences. Trying to make your circle peg spouse fit into your square peg hole isn't going to work.

3) Take some responsibility for your choices and mistakes. If you're with someone and it's not working out, own it. He/she isn't the only person in the relationship. You chose to stay with them, you chose to accept less than you could live with. Your own choices led to a less than satisfactory relationship. People are so quick to blame everyone else. "It's their fault for wanting to be friends with every single person around them!" etc. No, there is no fault. You are making the choice to stay, you are making the choice be miserable. They aren't making you do anything. You could choose to change, or choose to walk away, but you can't choose to change them, it doesn't work.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

The most likely backup husband is an ex or close male friend. Tha dovetails with studies showing the most likely AP is an ex.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

#spock voice

Fascinating.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> There are dire warnings on TAM about not allowing opposite sex friends, and some posters who scoff at that. This is why you shouldn't.



If you are that worried about OSF, then you can't even allow women to have same sex friends. 

In their lifetimes, about half of women become lesbian or bisexual; that is, either actually becoming sexually involved with other women or at least desiring to. 

Me, I prefer to trust my wife with OSF (and same sex friends) unless I have a real reason not to.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

I have a nice list of backup husbands... George Clooney, Brad Pitt, the CEO of a former company, Paul Newman at 45. What of it??!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Thor said:


> The most likely backup husband is an ex or close male friend. Tha dovetails with studies showing the most likely AP is an ex.


"Backups" make a primary relationship difficult. It's almost the same as an OM. And she might even be sexual with the backup on a very periodic basis.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> There are dire warnings on TAM about not allowing opposite sex friends, and some posters who scoff at that. This is why you shouldn't.
> 
> Survey says half of all married women have a ‘backup husband’ in mind - Love & Sex in SF
> 
> 1000 married women surveyed, 500 have a backup husband in mind, 250 have feelings as strong for the backup as for the spouse.


Yes and then there was this shocking news piece as well:

Study: 73% Of Bedroom Closets Have Wife’s Boy Toy Crouched Naked Inside | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes and then there was this shocking news piece as well:
> 
> Study: 73% Of Bedroom Closets Have Wife’s Boy Toy Crouched Naked Inside | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


I almost snorted my coffee through my nose reading this, too funny.

As for the OP, what a load of rubbish, surely grown adults don't believe these sorts of studies?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

I think the problem with OSFs is that, when you hit a rough patch with your SO, you're more likely to jump ship or, worse, have an A instead of focusing on working through the problems.


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## Coco2014 (May 8, 2014)

Theseus said:


> If you are that worried about OSF, then you can't even allow women to have same sex friends.
> 
> In their lifetimes, about half of women become lesbian or bisexual; that is, either actually becoming sexually involved with other women or at least desiring to.
> 
> Me, I prefer to trust my wife with OSF (and same sex friends) unless I have a real reason not to.


So shocking! Half women become lesbian or bisexual? Who are those women? I have never heard any of them. In this case, I would imagine half men are gay or Bi too.


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## Coco2014 (May 8, 2014)

I'm not sure about the survey. But I do think married people should not have their own OSF. If they do have OSF, they shall be the couple's mutual friends and do things together. If one person needs to be with his/her OSF without his/her spouse and have some conversations that he/she does not feel comfortable to let his/her spouse know, then they are more than just friends.

The way people express their opinion sounds controlling " I don't allow...". Actually, I understand their meaning. People have the right to own their own believes. If you believe married people should not have OSF, that is perfectly fine. Then you just need to be with a spouse who has the same belief and value system, then you are compatible. People who believe married people shall have OSF freely, they shall be with the same people too. 

We choose what we want to believe, make the decisions and then live with the consequences - no matter that's good or bad.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

I stepped off Facebook once. Over the next couple of weeks a few male friends noticed and assumed I was trying to avoid someone.

Women noticed within twenty-four hours and assumed I had blocked them in particular. My gf of the time explained it as the women checking up on their, presumably rather long, back-up list.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Every OSF I've had eventually hinted or straight out told me that they wanted to be more than "just friends." Unless the woman looks like a total troll, I think most men will always be up for sex with a friend.

My 19 year old daughter has also found this to be true. She has a big group of friends, guys and girls. She's found she can't be too friendly (not flirty) with any of the guys because they immediately take it as a green light.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

I was unhappy in my marriage for many years before it ended. Never had a backup, but did have OSF. It depends on the person I guess.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

P.S. I never once hooked up with any of the OSF after the marriage was over either.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

I want to clarify something. When I said this:



Nucking Futs said:


> There are dire warnings on TAM about not allowing opposite sex friends, and some posters who scoff at that. *This is why you shouldn't.*


I meant you shouldn't scoff at the warnings, not that you shouldn't have opposite sex friends. I frankly don't give a rats rosy red rectum if any of you have opposite sex friends or not. 

You need to understand that your personal experiences and boundaries are not passed down from on high, and scoffing at other people who have had different experiences and have different boundaries reflects poorly on you.

Speaking of which, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the following two posters for their well thought out and reasoned responses. You're brilliant analysis and irrefutable arguments will surely convince everyone who reads this of just what kind of people you are.



Faithful Wife said:


> Yes and then there was this shocking news piece as well:
> 
> Study: 73% Of Bedroom Closets Have Wife’s Boy Toy Crouched Naked Inside | The Onion - America's Finest News Source





Holland said:


> I almost snorted my coffee through my nose reading this, too funny.
> 
> As for the OP, what a load of rubbish, surely grown adults don't believe these sorts of studies?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Nucking Futs said:


> I want to clarify something. When I said this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bad day? lol


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes and then there was this shocking news piece as well:
> 
> Study: 73% Of Bedroom Closets Have Wife’s Boy Toy Crouched Naked Inside | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


I don't know which was funnier, the boy-toy in the closet survey or the report about the stagnant economy forcing more Americans to take jobs as infrastructure. With the accompanying picture of Americans stretched across a high wire.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

breeze said:


> Bad day? lol


Another example. ****ish answers don't move the discussion along.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Hmm


"Of 1000 women surveyed 500 were found to have low character. 250 had absolutely none"

This seems to make about as much sense to me


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Nucking Futs said:


> I want to clarify something. When I said this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have OSF and wouldn't give them up for my GF. It's a non issue for us. If it was an issue I wouldn't be with her.

Those who have that boundry that OSF should be be allowed that's fine so long as both parties agree. If that's what it takes for that couple to feel secure than have at it.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> I have OSF and wouldn't give them up for my GF. It's a non issue for us. If it was an issue I wouldn't be with her.


I bet that if your GF read the above statement, it WOULD become an issue. 
Maybe you should show it to her, so she knows where she stands on your list of priorities.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

I have some OSF friends. All of them I'm not attracted to. I care about them as persons, but none is more important than my spouse. I'd give them up for him, as I long as I know he does the same if I ask. 
We just try not to abuse this, and trust each other if there is no red flag to worry about. We can't become anti-social hermits.
Also, I also gave up some Not-Just-Friends that were hitting on me. The best thing is to honestly discern and admit the true friends from the Not-Just-Friends ones. You know who they are, in your life.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Hortensia said:


> I bet that if your GF read the above statement, it WOULD become an issue.
> Maybe you should show it to her, so she knows where she stands on your list of priorities.


My husband would be absolutely baffled by any worry over opposite sex friends. It can't become an issue when it never comes up.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I would never say never to OSFs. I would just consider their behavior around me and my husband. 

I do notice that other women are very careful. For example, I was at e meetup not long ago and introduced to a recently arrived American woman, here with her fiance. WE agreed that we should get together. 

So recently arrived she didn't have a cellphone yet. I offered to dial her fiance's number and then she would have my number. She instead asked me to write my number down and she would call me when she got a phone. 

Even though that's not necessary with me, I do think she made a smart move as a matter of habit.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

soccermom2three said:


> Every OSF I've had eventually hinted or straight out told me that they wanted to be more than "just friends." Unless the woman looks like a total troll, I think most men will always be up for sex with a friend.
> 
> My 19 year old daughter has also found this to be true. She has a big group of friends, guys and girls. She's found she can't be too friendly (not flirty) with any of the guys because they immediately take it as a green light.


:iagree:

I agree with the OP and some others. OSF's are playing with fire.

It's one thing to have an OSF as part of a couple - where you double date with the couple and all four people are friends. It's quite another to have an OSF where you go on 1-on-1 meetings/excursions. 

There is one exception. If the OSF and married person honestly do not find each other physically attractive in any way, then it can work. But we all know this is rare.

My wife told me 100 times that her OSF was not her type, would never be boyfriend material, was way too short, etc, etc. And then, after 20 years of a platonic friendship, fell in love with him.

For those who think OSFs are no big deal, proceed at your own peril.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> There is one exception. If the OSF and married person honestly do not find each other physically attractive in any way, then it can work. But we all know this is rare.


That your spouse might have sex with his / her OSF is not the only problem with OSFs. I'm pretty certain a couple of women who wanted to befriend my exH weren't interested in sex or dating him. I think some women prefer having male friends........ the usual thought is because women are so catty. I guess they hadn't looked in the mirror lately.

I made the mistake of thinking that we could be one happy family. But a couple of women made it clear that I was nothing without my husband. These days I am sensitive to the early warning signals of that kind of woman / frenemy.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Nucking Futs said:


> Another example. ****ish answers don't move the discussion along.


:iagree:

Oh wait, did you mean mine or yours?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

breeze said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Oh wait, did you mean mine or yours?


You might note that you were not one of the two people I was calling out. You are now. Your first post was a good example of the kind of response I was hoping for on this thread. The next two are not addressing the thread topic but rather attacking me. "Bad day? lol" is dismissive to the point of insult. I am offended by your response and while I would appreciate any further input you have on the thread topic, I would prefer you take your snide comments somewhere else.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Discussion is just that......conversations always evolve. Just because someone says something you don't want to hear doesn't mean its a crap statement. 

Anyway, I will still hold my opinion that having OSFs in a marriage or relationship vastly depends on the people involved. I had OSFs in my previous marriage with ZERO problems. Most of them were the husbands of my girlfriends, but we all got along and hung out. I have arms length OSFs in my current relationship, and I know that some would be willing to "hit that" if I let them. (YUCK, ZERO attraction as far as that goes on my end.) Some of them don't. My BF has OSFs too and I am not worried.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think your response to the answers doesn't show that you want to discuss it at all, you just want to shake your finger at people and tell them what's what, and when they don't agree with your point of view, you want to shoot them down saying it's reflecting poorly on them. Disagreeing with someone else's point of view is inevitable on a forum, and doing doesn't necessarily mean you are terrible.

You just show a lack of regard for anyone with an opposing point of view, and heaven help anyone who throws in a little levity here and there.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

breeze said:


> I think your response to the answers doesn't show that you want to discuss it at all, you just want to shake your finger at people and tell them what's what, and when they don't agree with your point of view, you want to shoot them down saying it's reflecting poorly on them. Disagreeing with someone else's point of view is inevitable on a forum, and doing doesn't necessarily mean you are terrible.
> 
> You just show a lack of regard for anyone with an opposing point of view, and heaven help anyone who throws in a little levity here and there.


I wasn't taking them to task for their opinion, I was taking them to task for the way they expressed it. There was no respectful give and take there, it was at first two people, later joined by you, who used snide comments to denigrate the posters who disagreed with them rather than making an argument to support their positions.

I appreciate your first post on this thread. Your later posts were rude and directed at me rather than the thread topic. Now you are accusing me of what you are actually guilty of. So for the last time I ask you: PLEASE DIRECT YOUR RESPONSES TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND RATHER THAN BASHING ME OR ANY OTHER POSTER.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

soccermom2three said:


> Every OSF I've had eventually hinted or straight out told me that they wanted to be more than "just friends." Unless the woman looks like a total troll, I think most men will always be up for sex with a friend.
> 
> My 19 year old daughter has also found this to be true. She has a big group of friends, guys and girls. She's found she can't be too friendly (not flirty) with any of the guys because they immediately take it as a green light.


There's a very easy fix for this. At some point in every friendship I have, both male and female friends, I make the following very direct statement:

If I want others to respect my relationship, I must respect theirs. I will never cheat and I have no respect for cheaters. I have told my H that if he wants to cheat, please just tell me first and I will gladly let him go.

The males all got the message. Pretty simple.

[Added note] I have had two married men I worked with over the years proposition me, once when I was single and once when I was married. I gave them a version of this line and they headed for the hills.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Meh. If an OSF becomes a problem, kick them to the curb.

Both my wife and I have been in the position of eliminating an OSF who crossed a boundary. The ending was swift, thorough, and complete. 

Guess what? Both of us likewise have had to end relationships with same sex friends who went crazy or crossed lines. It happens, regardless of sex.

But both us still have a couple great, awesome OSF. We're not going to penalize all because of the issues of a severe minority.

If you can't handle OSF, don't have them. But don't assume your weakness is a universal weakness.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

SurpriseMyself said:


> If I want others to respect my relationship, I must respect theirs.


This is similar to how we operate, but with one caveat:

_If I want others to respect my relationship, I must respect *my own relationship*._

Here's the reason why both my wife and I can handle OSF, both prior to marriage and now.

We love each other immensely. We both cherish our relationship incredibly. We talk about each other constantly. And we do not run to OSF to complain about our relationship. *Ever*.

We're that couple that people in our lives often uphold as doing it the "right" way. Why? Because they either see us being constantly affectionate or hear us constantly talking positively about each other. My wife's father even sarcastically said once "Oh right, I forgot, you have a perfect marriage".

If you have OSF who secretly wants to jump your bones they need an in road. They need to hear you complaining about your spouse, belly aching about your marriage, or opening up to them about your matrimonial problems.

But you know what will almost always shutdown an OSF from even attempting to go there? You being in a constant state of positive affirmation regarding your spouse and your marriage. Seal up any cracks, and there is no place for a lusting affair partner to slip in.

And you have zero tolerance policy about friends, opposite sex or otherwise, denigrating your wife. The quickest way to get cut out of my life is to disparage my wife. 

A relatively new female friend, a sister from church actually, just found that out the hard way two weeks ago. She got cut off in the time it took me to write her a text telling her she crossed a line with me she should never have even thought about crossing and goodbye. 

Zero tolerance.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Hortensia said:


> I bet that if your GF read the above statement, it WOULD become an issue.
> Maybe you should show it to her, so she knows where she stands on your list of priorities.


I don't need to. We had this discussion long before we even put on the title of boyfriend and Gf.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Meh. If an OSF becomes a problem, kick them to the curb.
> 
> Both my wife and I have been in the position of eliminating an OSF who crossed a boundary. The ending was swift, thorough, and complete.
> 
> ...


The bigger problem is when your partner has OSFs but has weak boundaries. That's when the situation becomes very tricky.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> The bigger problem is when your partner has OSFs but has weak boundaries. That's when the situation becomes very tricky.


Agreed. And in those situations I think OSF should be off limits in most cases.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The problem is that he is not respectful of his wife's feelings and concerns, and should almost always invite her to come along if she wishes. 

We both have OSF. Occasionally we'll go out with them alone if one of us doesn't want to come along - even to dinner and a movie. The key is that there is always the option to join, and we both know each other's friends quite well, so we have trust.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Hortensia said:


> I have some OSF friends. *All of them I'm not attracted to.* I care about them as persons, but none is more important than my spouse. I'd give them up for him, as I long as I know he does the same if I ask.
> We just try not to abuse this, and trust each other if there is no red flag to worry about. We can't become anti-social hermits.
> Also, I also gave up some Not-Just-Friends that were hitting on me. The best thing is to honestly discern and admit the true friends from the Not-Just-Friends ones. You know who they are, in your life.


*That* is the key to avoiding serious trouble.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Gabriel said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I agree with the OP and some others. OSF's are playing with fire.
> 
> ...


*QFT*.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

I have more male friends than female ones (I'm a girl).

It's been that way since I was a kid when I was the only girl on our street.

What has gender got to do with friendship?


Oh, and "allow"....Really?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


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