# Wife is emotionally detached



## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

We've been married for 17 years together for 19 years. From the beginning the relationship was great. Sex was great. Communication was great. For the last 7 years she's been slipping away emotionally. Right before our son was born it started. We moved to Florida 2.5 years ago and she was emotionally gone right after. Cold as ice to me. Hates sex. Doesn't show me any emotion. Does not do anything in a loving way towards me at all. She's nice to any animal or any other person. Very nice to anyone else. Neutral or mean sometimes towards me I could not take it anymore last August after numerous requests we try counseling. She would always ignore me and not even respond. I had to get her attention somehow. I signed up for a few dating sites and left my computer on so she'd see it. She did and boy was she upset and hurt. She figured it out that I never even talked to anyone on the sites and was only trying to get her attention. So we started counseling and I really thought things would get better. We didn't even have any serious issues like infidelity to fight over. Just her lack of everything a marriage needs. I come to find out after a few sessions of counseling that she was abused as a child for a long period of time by a relative. I thought part of me died inside when I heard. She didn't tell me a lot of details but enough for sure. She was born with a rare bone disease and has had surgeries since she was 3. Her mother treated her as an equal and not as a daughter. So there was no love from her mother at all. Her mom broke up the marriage and tried her best to hide the kids from the father. My wife has been through a hell i can't even imagine since she was 3. I found all this out soon after counseling started. It all started making sense. 

She constantly ignores any and all of my needs. She told me a month ago she just can't give me any affection anymore. It reminds her of her abuser. She said that after I asked her if she would hug me every now and then? I felt like I reminded her of her abuser. Which really cute me. I used to get mad and give her the silent treatment after she'd ignore me after while. My frustration builds and then I just stop talking to her in anger. Now that I known what she's dealing with it can handle it for longer periods but I always end up avoiding her and not talking. Not out-of anger but out of hurt and pain. She always thinks I'm mad because she wouldn't have sex on this or that night. I can go without sex. It's hard to go without any affection whatsoever though. No days she's glued to her phone or laptop. Sometimes even has headphones on all day. Very irritating. Some days she hardly talks to me. She doesn't work. She's disabled with knee problems. 

The counseling might be helping her but it's NOT helping us in the marriage. She's actually gotten worse towards me. She's added in yelling and swearing at me which I've never seen her do to anyone. It's only happened a few times but it really scared me I already thought she can care less about me and then you ad in yelling and swearing at me. I felt like running away forever. She also never apologizes for anything she ever does or says. She can't do that. She does however give excuses. It's always blamed on a flare up or the prednisone made me yell at you. Lame excuses but I foregive her. It's really hard to forget when they don't take any ownership or responsibility. I feel like my life is in turmoil. I feel isolated from her. She'll talk about things and be like this or that's "mine" never ours. It's always her not ours. It's like she doesn't know what marriage is about. At times she sounds selfish. I don't want to leave her. I can't leave her. With everything she's been through, if I left her it'd just be another betrayal in her life. I couldn't do that to anyone. Plus I made a commitment before god. The counselor explained how people who are abused like this that the spouse always takes a lot of heat from the one who was abused. I'm really not looking forward to 30 years of this behavior. It's so hard for me to deal with this. The nicest thing shes done or said to me in the last few years was "thanks for cleaning the house" via text message. The worst is how I remind her of her abuser. It's tearing me apart.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You are not required to live like this because of your vows.

Good times and bad? Lol, you were duped.

My thoughts:
You said she's on her phone or computer all the time-- red flag.
You said she once had great sex with you and now after years of good sex---- it's all because of childhood abuse?
I call BS.

Your wife is likely having online emotional affairs. Who else is satisfying her emotional needs for intimacy that every person has?

You are not loved by your wife. If that is love--- who'd want it?

Just divorce and find a woman that does love you. You are staying out of fear, not because of honor.

Don't be fearful. You've made every effort. It's time to break this off and let her be happy--- obviously you aren't doing it for her. Let her find someone that does (she won't, but YOU can).

JMO


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Btw, she was abused. Ok, I get it.

Does that give her the right to abuse you?

Escape your abuser bro! She did. You can, too.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

I'd think the same thing. She's not talking to men on her phone or on Facebook or anything else. I'm on her phone sometimes to send faxes. Her apps are always open and phone never locked so I can't see something. She's listening to this one show she used to watch as a child and she loves that show. Or watching videos or researching things. 

But I agree I can't let her abuse me because of what she went through. It's hard when you have a child. I don't wanna mess him up as well. 

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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Do you really want to live your life like this? I sure as hell wouldn't.

If she needs IC help great but IMO you tell her to get help and fix this with your help and blessing or you are out. 

Set a time limit.


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## curious234 (Jan 28, 2017)

Hope you are not unduely affected by this long running negativity as depression is contageous. Another person of her past experience may be really appreciating your attention and care. Could she be using her past as an excuse to hide her feelings towards you. Have you checked and excluded her spending all her emotional energy in an affair for the last seven years


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Yes we dealt with it last summer when I made her think I cheated. I was asking her but she swore there was never anyone. She's not working now and hasn't driven anywhere in 3 months. She had a knee replacement last month. I'm always using her cell. Texting from her cell. She hides nothing. If there's an affair then she's a magician at hiding it. 

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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Senor Moliverna,

When your wife is down the basement doing the clothes, tell her to stand still for a minute. Tell her not to move.

Turn out the light. 

Walk over to her carefully.

Bend down really low. Lift her robe.

Hah!

The pilot flame on her [marriage hot water] tank has gone out. The main burner is corroded from the constant dripping leak. The pilot will never re-light.

Your wife's mind has corroded beyond repair.

Time for a new [marriage hot water] tank. As luck would have it, the new women will deliver warm water to you.... on demand.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Moliverna said:


> I'd think the same thing. She's not talking to men on her phone or on Facebook or anything else. I'm on her phone sometimes to send faxes. Her apps are always open and phone never locked so I can't see something. She's listening to this one show she used to watch as a child and she loves that show. Or watching videos or researching things.
> 
> But I agree I can't let her abuse me because of what she went through. It's hard when you have a child. I don't wanna mess him up as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk


Him growing up seeing his father getting abused is going to mess him up much worse.

I don't think you have to divorce her yet, but you have to tell her either she changes or you are going to. You need to stand up for yourself if not for you for your son. He is learning patterns from your marriage. Just like your wife learned from her Mom. Is it any coincidence that a women whose mother hid her children from their father treats her own children's father like an after thought. One day you may watch your son's wife treat him like your wife treats you if you are not careful. 

I suspect you suffer from codependency, you might want to get a book or two on that. Right now you don't have a healthy relationship and if you don't change your wife isn't going to. 

You don't have to divorce her but you can separate for a while and let her decide if that is how she wants to live. She may divorce you and then you are not responsible. Or she may decide to finally get help. 

By the way the tricking her to think you were cheating was very passive aggressive way of dealing with your issue, attacking problems like that doesn't particularly make you attractive to women. The like men who are assertive even if it is with them. Weak men make women feel unsafe. Part of what we provide for them is safety, both physically and emotionally. You would do much better with your wife if you stand up to her. She will respect you more and it may change her attitude. There is a book that lots of people recommend here called "No More Mr. Nice Guy" you can find a pdf online. You might want to read it. 

Are you sure, SHE is sure you didn't cheat? You say here, I only did it to get her attention, but frankly that is like cheater speak 101. I wouldn't believe it if I were her. Why couldn't you just say, we go to counseling or I am done. 

Also why a few dating sites? One wasn't enough to get her attention? Something doesn't pass the smell test about that. Are you sure you are not being passive aggressive here with us about this? Like maybe you were thinking about cheating and just chickened out or got caught before you did. That seems more likely since it was more then one site. I wonder if this has been the dynamic in your relationship. You not directly addressing problems with her and in general. That will cause a women to lose respect for a man real quick.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

For her to just turn everything off is not normal. Only thing I can think of is her being unhappy with the move. Maybe she misses everybody back home. 

Could she be having an affair with someone very locally. Someone that she doesn't have to call or text. Don't dismiss a possibility of an OM because you don't think she has time.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Something is here that you're missing. You say that this problem occurred rather quickly 7 years ago. It's been 7 years and you've been living like this?
Then 2.5 years ago when you moved, it got even worse?

Either figure out what it is, tell her to help you fix whatever it is and as said, give her a time limit.

You are just giving up your life for a person that seems to not give a flip about you.
It's a totally ridiculous thing to do.

It's simple: she either starts treating you like a husband, or you find someone who will.

Honestly, 7 years????????
What's YOUR problem?
Geez, do something. It doesn't matter if she's cheating or whatever............ if this is how it is, you set her free. Do you love her so little you don't want her happy? Do you hate yourself so much that you think you don't deserve happiness?

Move forward. Whether it's right or wrong, move forward. Do something. Doing nothing has gotten you here.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Him growing up seeing his father getting abused is going to mess him up much worse.
> 
> I don't think you have to divorce her yet, but you have to tell her either she changes or you are going to. You need to stand up for yourself if not for you for your son. He is learning patterns from your marriage. Just like your wife learned from her Mom. Is it any coincidence that a women whose mother hid her children from their father treats her own children's father like an after thought. One day you may watch your son's wife treat him like your wife treats you if you are not careful.
> 
> ...


We've been in counseling for a year almost now. How could anyone be totally sure she didn't cheat but I'm pretty sure. I'd be a miracle for me not to see any texts or calls or emails or something. 

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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Divorce. This is neglect and abusive. Sorry, that is the reality of your situation. She is what she is at this point in time but if you detach, learn to let go of the things that cause you pain that you have no control over, you can restart. This is a learning process for you. Failure is not learning a lesson when life throws you a wrench. 

Look at the facts. The marriage is worse, she needs you and not that she wants you. She is likely to be this way towards anyone. She is causing you to develop unhealthy coping mechanisms.

Your vows can supercede your long-term health, the possibility of having your children have healthy role models for guidance and to be around, you as a person. I am willing to stay with someone through the good times and the bad as long as they put effort into it or they are simply using me. You are the giver and her the taker. She does not respect you. Your pain from her lack of love and neglect shows that. You are a possession to make her feel safe. You can feel sorry for her, but don't martyr yourself and your life for her. There should be ahealthy balance. There is support and there is you that is sacrificing too much that it becomes detrimental to your mental and physical health. Who will support you if your spouse is unable to be there for you.

These are things you need to ask yourself. Lots of people are hurt as children. Would you feel sorry for a drug dealer that does it originally to find food an shelter, knowing they were dealing since adolesence? Fact is, many dysfunctional people have levels of dysfunction you just happen to know more intimate details about this particular person.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

When a marriage has hit the rocks, cutting the rigging is sometimes the only way to save the ship. You and your kid are the ship. See a lawyer and get yourself out of this shipwreck.


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## crocus (Apr 8, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> Something is here that you're missing. You say that this problem occurred rather quickly 7 years ago. It's been 7 years and you've been living like this?
> 
> Then 2.5 years ago when you moved, it got even worse?
> 
> ...




Because it's passive aggressive to accept unacceptable behaviour for long periods of time and then blame someone else 7years later. Just how it works. Now, time to deal with it. 


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Whose idea was it to move? Could she be resentful about it?

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Moliverna said:


> We've been in counseling for a year almost now. How could anyone be totally sure she didn't cheat but I'm pretty sure. I'd be a miracle for me not to see any texts or calls or emails or something.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk


I didn't ask about her cheating I ask are you sure she doesn't think YOU cheated. Again if you were trying to scare her why did you need more then one site?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Whether she is talking to other men on her phone is irrelevant at this point.

Hurt people hurt people. She is a prime example.

This won't change.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Moliverna said:


> We've been in counseling for a year almost now. How could anyone be totally sure she didn't cheat but I'm pretty sure. I'd be a miracle for me not to see any texts or calls or emails or something.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk


Maybe she doesnt believe you about the dating sites. Are you being 100% up front that you didnt actually use these sites to contact women? 

Im sorry, Im not dismissing the abuse she went through, but for her to be fine at one point in your relationship then suddenly turn into a total cold fish just doesnt add up. Either, she doesnt believe your story about the dating sites, she resents you for the move, or she has her eye on someone else. Her blaming the past abuse is bull.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

TinCanSailor said:


> *Good Afternoon. I am new on this site and still struggling to find where I fit here.
> 
> ...
> 
> Now, I wonder, at 78, where do I go from here?*


Your own dedicated thread, perhaps? Preferably minus the loud fonts...


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> Maybe she doesnt believe you about the dating sites. Are you being 100% up front that you didnt actually use these sites to contact women?
> 
> Im sorry, Im not dismissing the abuse she went through, but for her to be fine at one point in your relationship then suddenly turn into a total cold fish just doesnt add up. Either, she doesnt believe your story about the dating sites, she resents you for the move, or she has her eye on someone else. Her blaming the past abuse is bull.


I offered her to log into those accounts and see there were no messages in our outgoing. She really didn't care after 2 days of drilling me for information about that. Shes never brought it up again. I printed my cell records as well. She knows all the numbers I called and texted. I was and am being totally up front with it never even said hi to another woman on those sites. After this fight is when I found out about the abuse. I wonder if she's blaming me for making her deal with her past? 

Shes hardly changed at all since I replied to my post last time. We bought a house on an island off the florida coast last week. We both love it and the island. We paid cash so there's no mortgage payment stress. The house is only a few years old so little if any work to do on it. 2900 sq ft so plenty of room. 

I've been talking more when she upsets me with her attitude towards me. When I've had enough of her being cold and distant I start avoiding her and she knows exactly why and when its boiled over for me. She then tries talking to me more and hugging me each morning. When i finally come around hoping shes going to stay this nice to me she immediately flips back to being cold. Like clockwork. She does it to get me back to the state of excepting her new nice demeanor towards me and then flips right back. I know exactly how its going to work out. It's so irritating. Wish I knew how to change this. Last time it boiled over I told her how her demeanor towards me is really burning me out. It hurts and its depressing me. She right away says I'm really sorry I cant do anything right. I tell her it's not that you're not doing anything right its like your not trying at all. It seems You're going to counseling for yourself and not for the marriage. All the things for the marriage we're supposed to be doing and trying I've been doing since day one. You've done NONE of them. I said you go to counseling and say things are ok and the tips and things we're supposed to be doing is helping but you're not doing any of them. Not one. I said you need to be honest with yourself and the counselor if you want this to work. She can't help us with the wrong information from you. I don't deserve any of this ****. I'm the only one thats been there for her. Everyone else in her life damn near has abandoned her in one way or another. And I get to take the heat for her past. It's not fair. I told her I felt like I've been paying the price for what other have done to her. She said lots of people who were abused go through this. That's something that someone like the counselor told her and shes using it as an excuse to treat me like ****. Ugh i pray we can get through this. 



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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> I didn't ask about her cheating I ask are you sure she doesn't think YOU cheated. Again if you were trying to scare her why did you need more then one site?


Thats a good point! Thinking back i wonder myself why i did. I think because she never even pays attention to anything I do. I think I wanted to make sure she saw something. That's why I left my computer on I cant remember though. That's all I can think of though. I coukdnt even remember all the sites when she was grilling me about it. I think it seemed like i was lying because I couldn't remember all the details. If I was actually trying to meet people I would have been interested in what i was signing up for lol. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

lucy999 said:


> Whose idea was it to move? Could she be resentful about it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


We both wanted to it was a 5 year plan of ours and the previous winter was so cold that we both wanted to get to a warm coast fast. However we just bought a house on an island off the West coast of Florida. We both love it and the island. It's only a few years old so the house is in like new condition. No stress since there's no mortgage. I paid cash for it. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

crocus said:


> Because it's passive aggressive to accept unacceptable behaviour for long periods of time and then blame someone else 7years later. Just how it works. Now, time to deal with it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It didn't just flip like this 7 years ago. It slowly manifested into this. I'm sure a lot of its my fault for excepting it for so long. Ugh damn it. Seemed that as soon as we moved here her ****y attitude kicked into high gear. 

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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You teach people how they can treat you but manipulation tactics get you nothing.

She's learned from your acceptance she can do what she wants. Your lack of boundaries of what you will not accept enables her.

Hence, you need to fix you first. You can't fix her.

Read up maybe this will help
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

curious234 said:


> Hope you are not unduely affected by this long running negativity as depression is contageous. Another person of her past experience may be really appreciating your attention and care. Could she be using her past as an excuse to hide her feelings towards you. Have you checked and excluded her spending all her emotional energy in an affair for the last seven years


I wish she did have one or there was evidence where I coukd easily guess she had one. There is nothing. Nobody shes even kinda close to. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> You teach people how they can treat you but manipulation tactics get you nothing.
> 
> She's learned from your acceptance she can do what she wants. Your lack of boundaries of what you will not accept enables her.
> 
> ...


You're totally right!

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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

My money is on perimenopause/menopause


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Thound said:


> My money is on perimenopause/menopause


Could be a big part of it. If it is then I HATE menopause!

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## TheRealMcCoy (Apr 13, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Good times and bad? Lol, you were duped.
> 
> My thoughts:
> You said she's on her phone or computer all the time-- red flag.
> ...



Here's what I don't get about the "SHE'S CHEATING" crowd. You write the above garbage, then think a little about it, THEN write THIS:




Evinrude58 said:


> Something is here that you're missing. You say that this problem occurred rather quickly 7 years ago. It's been 7 years and you've been living like this?
> Then 2.5 years ago when you moved, it got even worse?
> 
> Either figure out what it is, tell her to help you fix whatever it is and as said, give her a time limit.
> ...


We get it. She could be cheating. Just skip that part and get to the REAL advice.


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## hylton7 (Jan 24, 2017)

if not cheating it might be menopause


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Moliverna said:


> We've been married for 17 years together for 19 years. From the beginning the relationship was great. Sex was great. Communication was great. For the last 7 years she's been slipping away emotionally. Right before our son was born it started. We moved to Florida 2.5 years ago and she was emotionally gone right after. Cold as ice to me. Hates sex. Doesn't show me any emotion. Does not do anything in a loving way towards me at all. She's... Very nice to anyone else. So we started counseling and I really thought things would get better ... I come to find out after a few sessions of counseling that she was abused as a child for a long period of time by a relative ... It all started making sense.


This actually makes no sense to me. If abuse long ago truly explains her behavior, why wasn't your wife consistently mean to you, all the while you were dating and before your son was born? Why isn't she mean with others?

It's hard for me to believe that abuse years behind one's wife could trigger her oscillations between nice and mean, with selective meanness toward her husband. 

You might want to talk to her, to better understand what's really wrong. Seems like you're both silently assuming motives for each other's behavior that might not be wrong; you act of these assumptions, leading to a non-ideal outcome for everyone. 

For example, suppose you and your wife want to talk to each other about a marital problem, but silently assume the other person is mad and doesn't want to talk. Off of those assumptions, neither of you will talk, despite both of you wanting it.



Moliverna said:


> She constantly ignores any and all of my needs. She told me a month ago she just can't give me any affection anymore. It reminds her of her abuser. She said that after I asked her if she would hug me every now and then? I felt like I reminded her of her abuser. Which really cute me. I used to get mad and give her the silent treatment after she'd ignore me after while. My frustration builds and then I just stop talking to her in anger. Now that I known what she's dealing with it can handle it for longer periods but I always end up avoiding her and not talking. Not out-of anger but out of hurt and pain. She always thinks I'm mad because she wouldn't have sex on this or that night. I can go without sex. It's hard to go without any affection whatsoever though. No days she's glued to her phone or laptop. Sometimes even has headphones on all day. Very irritating. Some days she hardly talks to me. She doesn't work. She's disabled with knee problems.


This doesn't add up. I couldn't see anyone not wanting affection (a hug?) unless there was serious sexual abuse in his or her past. 

It almost sounds like she's addicted to social media, online games, or something of the sort. Could be her irritation with being interrupted from these vices that's causing her to act the way she does.

Please tell me that she's at least taking care of your son.



Moliverna said:


> The counseling might be helping her but it's NOT helping us in the marriage. She's actually gotten worse towards me. She's added in yelling and swearing at me which I've never seen her do to anyone. It's only happened a few times but it really scared me I already thought she can care less about me and then you ad in yelling and swearing at me. I felt like running away forever.


Stay calm when this happens. Tell her that this is not the way husband and wife talk to each other, and there is no excuse for yelling at one another. Stress that it's bringing you two no closer together, and if it's done in front of your kid, it's even worse. Be firm with her, set boundaries, and consistently enforce them. 

I encourage taking a walk or leaving the room when something like this happens; you have to let her know that you won't stand for this.



Moliverna said:


> She also never apologizes for anything she ever does or says. She can't do that. She does however give excuses. It's always blamed on a flare up or the prednisone made me yell at you. Lame excuses but I foregive her. It's really hard to forget when they don't take any ownership or responsibility.


Should you decide to stay in the marriage, it's going to be a long one for you if she can't learn to say "I'm sorry". Don't set a precedent for unconditional forgiveness without changing the behavior. Screaming at you or snubbing you (and thereby leaving your emotional needs unfulfilled) are both forms of abuse, so these behaviors need fixing on a longer-term basis. It's silly to think that she can ignore you the rest of the marriage, and that would be tolerated.



Moliverna said:


> I feel like my life is in turmoil. I feel isolated from her. She'll talk about things and be like this or that's "mine" never ours. It's always her not ours. It's like she doesn't know what marriage is about. At times she sounds selfish. I don't want to leave her. I can't leave her. With everything she's been through, if I left her it'd just be another betrayal in her life. I couldn't do that to anyone. Plus I made a commitment before god. The counselor explained how people who are abused like this that the spouse always takes a lot of heat from the one who was abused. I'm really not looking forward to 30 years of this behavior. It's so hard for me to deal with this. The nicest thing shes done or said to me in the last few years was "thanks for cleaning the house" via text message. The worst is how I remind her of her abuser. It's tearing me apart.


From how this post reads, it's like this phantom "abuser" came out of nowhere, years into your relationship, and now is blamed for everything, just like the prednisone. Again, not adding up. And by the way, unbelievable that she had the audacity to say "you reminded her of your abuser".

Has your wife's behavior really changed so drastically since moving to FL? Does she happen to hate FL, or did she have something in your prior location that she gave up, upon moving? These things might explain a sudden change in behavior. The whole abuse story leaves more questions than answers, for me at least.

Other things: If the counseling is making things worse, you might consider seeing another counselor. 

Sounds like you love your wife despite all of these things, which is truly commendable of you. You do deserve happiness though and your wife should be meeting your needs, but she's not. It seems your marriage has become one of mistreatment and neglect, so I have to ask if it still qualifies as a marriage. Think about it. Good luck!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The Why Fors:

a) Pain. Real pain. She is hurting.
b) Depression. She is sick, seriously sick and she is in real pain. This is ninety percent of your problem. Get her on anti-depressive medicine or
whatever the doctors recommend. Get her mind and body evaluated. Being nice in the morning after a good nights rest is common...then the pain returns.
c) Is she already on some medicine that has ice cube side effects.
d) Anxiety. She must constantly sit or be rather immobile. This now bothers her.
e) Memories. She remembers the good times, that are now memories.
f) Resentment. She is angry and ticked off because her life went south in her youth. The bloom is off the Rose, way too early.
g) Sex is the last thing she wants. Too bad, that could be the only thing that gives her pleasure at this stage.
h) Does she suffer from chronic headaches?
i) Childhood abuse? May be true. I suspect it is now a diversion, an excuse.
j) Spectrum disorders, ASD? that she can no longer hide from.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Yes shes a great mother! Our son loves her dearly. I'm telling you it doesn't ad up. You're correct. It's complex. Abuse as a child for a long period really messed her up. But why did she just flip a switch in me a few years back? Why not like this all along and why not towards Everyone? Because I'm the one shes intimate with I'm guessing. Shes on anti depressants and other meds. She hates narcotics so rarely takes those. Yes shes online all day but not like you or I would think. Shes always reading about something. Most the time regarding her bone disease. Rarely talking to someone specific online or even in a comment section on Facebook. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

She loves Florida. We just bought a house in an island. We love it and the island. It hasn't really changed how she is at all. Even with no rent anymore and no mortgage. No affection. Hates giving any towards me in any way. Blames it on her abuse. Says she thinks she's broke. The only affection I get is sex but it's like pulling nails to get her to agree to it. I hardly enjoy it anymore so i dont feel like making her do anything she doesn't wanna do. So it's very hard for me to go on with nothing from her. I've told her this. She just says I'm sorry and I'm broke. Never tries to do it ever. It's her way take it or leave. It really hurts but I know she's hurting as well. I just wish there was something between us thats the problem so we can deal with it instead we're dealing with someone else from her past that hurt her. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Yes I've been really poor with boundaries in the past which is part of the whole problem. I've allowed this to manifest. However thats come to a stop now. I don't allow it. Shes only yelled at me a few times. But I've never heard her tell or swear at anyone ever so it was shocking and hurtful. I can tell shes happier in the new house. Only a few years old so like new condition and no mortgage. It's just not enough for her to be happy inside. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Whether she is talking to other men on her phone is irrelevant at this point.
> 
> Hurt people hurt people. She is a prime example.
> 
> This won't change.


Well I'm praying it changes. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> I didn't ask about her cheating I ask are you sure she doesn't think YOU cheated. Again if you were trying to scare her why did you need more then one site?


I don't know why I used 3 sites. I think because she never pays attention and I could see her easily not even noticing. Pretty sure that's what I was thinking. I asked her a couple weeks ago if she thought I cheated on her and she didn't respond. I then said I never have in any way. Pretty sure she didn't think I did. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

lucy999 said:


> Whose idea was it to move? Could she be resentful about it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


She loves Florida. Plus we just bought a houss on an island. It's very peaceful here. Everyone's nice. No ren't or mortgage payments anymore so no stress there. 

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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I realize she was cold and unresponsive before you purposely went on those dating sites and made sure that she saw, but, man, that was the wrong thing to do. Which I'm sure you're aware of now. I think this just compounded the whole problem. I think there are two separate issues. Possibly her past abuse and also the fact that you went on dating sites. She could be holding a lot of resentment about the latter.

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

lucy999 said:


> I realize she was cold and unresponsive before you purposely went on those dating sites and made sure that she saw, but, man, that was the wrong thing to do. Which I'm sure you're aware of now. I think this just compounded the whole problem. I think there are two separate issues. Possibly her past abuse and also the fact that you went on dating sites. She could be holding a lot of resentment about the latter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Very true. It's possible. I just think shes mention that in counseling. If she tells the counselor about the abuse as a child which is one of the worst stories of abuse I've heard. Then why not mention shes still upset about the sites I went on? I showed her all in box outbox and sent folders for those sites. Nothing was there. I wonder if she didn't make a profile and try to message me and never got a response? Because she waited 4 days to say something after she noticed. She was at her mom's 1700 miles away texting me what I was doing on the sites. 

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Moliverna said:


> I don't know why I used 3 sites. I think because she never pays attention and I could see her easily not even noticing. Pretty sure that's what I was thinking. I asked her a couple weeks ago if she thought I cheated on her and she didn't respond. I then said I never have in any way. Pretty sure she didn't think I did.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk


Let me ask you a question. You find out your wife signs up for 3 dating sites. You confront and you tell her and she says I was just trying to get your attention? You going to believe that? I have a hard time believing it and you have no reason to lie on here. 

You say yourself she didn't answer. Even so if it was just to motivate her it's kind of a passive aggressive ****ty way to do it. Just saying next time say what you need, say how you feel. Detach if necessary. Don't leave clues because you are afraid to confront. 

Personally I think you should try to really work hard to repair the bond. There is a lot of water under the bridge.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Moliverna said:


> Very true. It's possible. I just think shes mention that in counseling. If she tells the counselor about the abuse as a child which is one of the worst stories of abuse I've heard. Then why not mention shes still upset about the sites I went on? I showed her all in box outbox and sent folders for those sites. Nothing was there. I wonder if she didn't make a profile and try to message me and never got a response? Because she waited 4 days to say something after she noticed. She was at her mom's 1700 miles away texting me what I was doing on the sites.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk


She was abused by an adult in her life as a child, which probably means she has a hard time trusting. It also probably means she learned not to confront issues like not trusting you husband, but keep silent about it, counseling or not. 

Take the bull by the horns tell her you full thinking. Be vulnerable about it, give her complete access to your media devices and try to give her some confidence about it.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Good idea. You could be Right! She already has full access to my cell. I'd show her things from my cell and she'd have it for a half hour at times. Same with me and her cell. Those things we are pretty open about. Oh I just remembered that how she found me on the sites was she saw the welcome emails the day I signed up. I left my computer email on and open. So really I had like 5 hours to go cheat before she saw it. But waited a few days to say anything. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Let me ask you a question. You find out your wife signs up for 3 dating sites. You confront and you tell her and she says I was just trying to get your attention? You going to believe that? I have a hard time believing it and you have no reason to lie on here.
> 
> You say yourself she didn't answer. Even so if it was just to motivate her it's kind of a passive aggressive ****ty way to do it. Just saying next time say what you need, say how you feel. Detach if necessary. Don't leave clues because you are afraid to confront.
> 
> Personally I think you should try to really work hard to repair the bond. There is a lot of water under the bridge.


I would never believe that line!


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Let me ask you a question. You find out your wife signs up for 3 dating sites. You confront and you tell her and she says I was just trying to get your attention? You going to believe that? I have a hard time believing it and you have no reason to lie on here.
> 
> You say yourself she didn't answer. Even so if it was just to motivate her it's kind of a passive aggressive ****ty way to do it. Just saying next time say what you need, say how you feel. Detach if necessary. Don't leave clues because you are afraid to confront.
> 
> Personally I think you should try to really work hard to repair the bond. There is a lot of water under the bridge.


Yes. That sounds like really good advice. Thank you for your thoughts. 

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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Moliverna said:


> She loves Florida. We just bought a house in an island. We love it and the island. It hasn't really changed how she is at all. Even with no rent anymore and no mortgage. No affection. Hates giving any towards me in any way. Blames it on her abuse. Says she thinks she's broke. The only affection I get is sex but it's like pulling nails to get her to agree to it. I hardly enjoy it anymore so i dont feel like making her do anything she doesn't wanna do. So it's very hard for me to go on with nothing from her. I've told her this. She just says I'm sorry and I'm broke. Never tries to do it ever. It's her way take it or leave. It really hurts but I know she's hurting as well. I just wish there was something between us thats the problem so we can deal with it instead we're dealing with someone else from her past that hurt her.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk


The anti-depressants kill her sex drive. 
Until she gets healthy, you're screwed, or rather, will not get screwed.

If she never gets healthy/--well...,

No, I don't go for psychobsvble.
Abuse? Years and years of good sex and suddenly " I was abused as a child"!!! Yeah, I call bs.

She's on AD's and has zero sex drive. The thought of sex repulsed her. It probably isn't you.

Ask yourself if you're willing to take this forever. That may be your fate. Give her a time limit for It being a wife? I would. 
Adultery and mental illness are two pretty sound grounds for divorce. You should be patient, but I think you HAVE..... what's it got you? Any progress?


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Major update. Just found out she has aspergers. It really sucks. Devastating. At least I'm not confused anymore. Here's a link that describes her for the last 8 years or more. http://heartlessaspergers.com/how-to-spot-a-man-with-aspergers-syndrome/

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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

"We've been married for 17 years together for 19 years. From the beginning the relationship was great. Sex was great. Communication was great. For the last 7 years she's been slipping away emotionally. Right before our son was born it started. We moved to Florida 2.5 years ago and she was emotionally gone right after. Cold as ice to me." 

So... was this a new form of sudden onset Aspergers?


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

dadstartingover.com said:


> "We've been married for 17 years together for 19 years. From the beginning the relationship was great. Sex was great. Communication was great. For the last 7 years she's been slipping away emotionally. Right before our son was born it started. We moved to Florida 2.5 years ago and she was emotionally gone right after. Cold as ice to me."
> 
> So... was this a new form of sudden onset Aspergers?


No it is exactly as described in that link. Except saying strange sht in public. She doesn't do that. This fits her perfectly. Amazing it took this long to figure it out. 

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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Moliverna said:


> No it is exactly as described in that link. Except saying strange sht in public. She doesn't do that. This fits her perfectly. Amazing it took this long to figure it out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


How was she diagnosed? Is there any treatment, or therapy to help?


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

The point I'm trying to make is that you said her lack of sex and communication was something that appeared only in the past 7 years of your 19 year relationship. I'm no expert, but I would think these traits would be apparent from day 1 with something like Aspergers.


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## Template 2 (Feb 16, 2017)

Did you not see any symptoms of personality issues before your son was born? Was she ever affectionate with you? Was she ever supportive and really interested in your life? Did she become really obsessively involved with your child? The reason I am asking is that Aspergers is something you are born with. It does not suddenly manifest in middle age. More often these days, adults are diagnosed with Aspergers but they generally have life long problems relating in a meaningful way with others.

Given her age, she may have some significant hormonal issues going on that are producing Asperger like behaviors. Other mental issues produce very similar behaviors (borderline personality disorder). In addition, you may want to look at her medications. A combination of meds and/or long term use of some meds can alter mood and behavior. Much of behavior is determined by chemistry and given she did not show signs of Asperger's until fairly recently, I would look to other things that could be causing her issues. I think a full workup with a really good primary care physician and possibly a neurologist and endocrinologist might help.

If she does have Asperger's or a personality disorder, she can work with a therapist with special training to do cognitive behavior therapy. It can really work and help the person develop the skills necessary to empathize with others and think about and even fulfill the needs of others. And for some, it can provide a certain measure of relief that they can get along with others in the world, experience and give love, and be happier than living in their limited world.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Template 2 said:


> Did you not see any symptoms of personality issues before your son was born? Was she ever affectionate with you? Was she ever supportive and really interested in your life? Did she become really obsessively involved with your child? The reason I am asking is that Aspergers is something you are born with. It does not suddenly manifest in middle age. More often these days, adults are diagnosed with Aspergers but they generally have life long problems relating in a meaningful way with others.
> 
> Given her age, she may have some significant hormonal issues going on that are producing Asperger like behaviors. Other mental issues produce very similar behaviors (borderline personality disorder). In addition, you may want to look at her medications. A combination of meds and/or long term use of some meds can alter mood and behavior. Much of behavior is determined by chemistry and given she did not show signs of Asperger's until fairly recently, I would look to other things that could be causing her issues. I think a full workup with a really good primary care physician and possibly a neurologist and endocrinologist might help.
> 
> If she does have Asperger's or a personality disorder, she can work with a therapist with special training to do cognitive behavior therapy. It can really work and help the person develop the skills necessary to empathize with others and think about and even fulfill the needs of others. And for some, it can provide a certain measure of relief that they can get along with others in the world, experience and give love, and be happier than living in their limited world.


Dude I know that's what I thought as well. It all started to change very slowly maybe a year before she got pregnant. I know it's long but if you read that article it's as if I wrote it about her except for being rude in public. She was not like this at all before that from when I met her. Highly sexual. Mkre than me even. In the article it says they learn how to act to be with a man. Then says no one can keep up the act forever. Could be from a movie or something else. She was just telling me the day before I came to this conclusion that she's not being herself when we go out with friends which is rare to begin with. She said she has to try to be normal and she's not herself. That was from a fight we were just in. Then a few months ago i was really fed up with her and the attitude and she was crying about me saying she has no affection. She said she can't do it and doesn't know how. She said "he broke me" talking about the man who molested her for years as a child I found out last year. I don't think all cases of asp are the same. Now that I'm thinking about it she does say borderline rude things. Just the other day at our friends they have a child who seems always unhappy or sad and my wife was referrring to the child in a negative way describing her negativity. The parents our friends started defending their 3 year old s little. I remember thinking of be a little irritated with her. 

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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You're still are in a crappy life. This new revelation doesn't change much.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> You're still are in a crappy life. This new revelation doesn't change much.


***na! I wasn't posting this as if it's great news. It's actually bad news. It would seem it's hopeless that any good changes woukd happen. Only good thing is the understanding why. Very bitter and little to no sweet!

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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

Hiya,

Been married for 23+ years. My wife was diagnosed with ASD in adulthood.

I remember being full to the brim with bitterness. I remember what it was like to hear her diagnosis and having to re-frame every memory with the new understanding.

Is there anything I can do to help?

BT


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Along with the ASD, you may want to look into SA victims transferring their resentment of their abuser on to their spouse. I've read numerous cases of this here, so hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can help you out with it. This sounds to me to be exactly what happened, and the ASD is adding another component. You're going to need some good professional help with this. Best of luck to you with whatever you choose and make sure you take care of your child and your best interests.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Along with the ASD, you may want to look into SA victims transferring their resentment of their abuser on to their spouse. I've read numerous cases of this here, so hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can help you out with it. This sounds to me to be exactly what happened, and the ASD is adding another component. You're going to need some good professional help with this. Best of luck to you with whatever you choose and make sure you take care of your child and your best interests.


Wow you know it sure feels like I'm taking the heat for her abuse. I've been saying that for a year now. I'd love to try a different counselor. It seems like she just gave up on counseling last week. She stopped going weekly to deal with her past and we only went when I let her behavior build up for to long. Maybe enabling....it was hard for me to set boundaries with someone who seemed like didn't give a ****. Now I know she just didn't understand I think. She can't process feelings. Hers or others. I'm not giving her excuses trust me. It's bull****. Not much i can do about it. Knowing now that it's probably hopeless for any good changes. She doesn't want change. She's fine with herself and doesn't like people trying to change her or even tell her how wrong she is. It's a battle I can't win. I doubt I'll last long. Knowing she can't change. A year of counseling and she hasn't used any of the tools. Not once. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Big Tree said:


> Hiya,
> 
> Been married for 23+ years. My wife was diagnosed with ASD in adulthood.
> 
> ...


Wow. How do you deal man? This is a total mind fuq for me. She knew years ago and never told me. I've been trying to get the woman I met and married back and that personality wasn't even the real her. It's like I never even knew her. It helps to understand the WHY but it hurts a lot more to realize it'll never get better. I won't last long. As soon as I give up and try to leave she'll come back and pretend to be the woman I met years ago but as we know she can't keep that act up forever. I wouldn't want someone to pretend to be someone their not just for my feelings and well being. If it's fake then it's not reality and I'd know it's not real. Doesn't seem worth it 

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Did a Psychologist make the diagnosis on this? It seems strange that this changed over a long period of time.


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

Moliverna said:


> Wow. How do you deal man? This is a total mind fuq for me. She knew years ago and never told me. I've been trying to get the woman I met and married back and that personality wasn't even the real her. It's like I never even knew her. It helps to understand the WHY but it hurts a lot more to realize it'll never get better. I won't last long. As soon as I give up and try to leave she'll come back and pretend to be the woman I met years ago but as we know she can't keep that act up forever. I wouldn't want someone to pretend to be someone their not just for my feelings and well being. If it's fake then it's not reality and I'd know it's not real. Doesn't seem worth it
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk



How did I deal?...

I had to gain an understanding of ASD.

I had to forgive her for playing a role instead of revealing the "real" her.

I had to let go of the illusions that I created ("the woman I met and married").

I had to find acceptance of the "real" her.

I had to make the choice to stay or go.

------------------------

Do you have the time to work through forgiveness and acceptance?

I found that my wife is different but not less than I'd imagined. That makes me lucky and grateful.


Let me know what you think. --BT


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Big Tree said:


> How did I deal?...
> 
> I had to gain an understanding of ASD.
> 
> ...


She never took counseling serious. Sure we went through forgiving in counseling but last week the last time I got upset I asked if she wanted to go to counseling? She said "spiritually I'm fine but you can go" so she was never there for the marriage. She hasn't gone in 3 months. I can forgive anyone but staying on the basis of she's got asp and I need to understand and except it and let myself be miserable the rest of my life from her rude and uncaring behavior won't work for me. It's not enough for me to stay. Things she said in the past makes sense now. When I met her she had a great personality. When our child was born she did not have enough energy to keep the act up for 2 people. It was either me or my son that gets her good version. 2 years ago I was asking for more attention from her. She said "my plate is full now" she wasn't even working. She doesn't have the energy to keep up a "I'm a nice caring person " act for 2 people everyday. She never will until I make a decision to leave for a better life. Then she'll pretend to change but she's done that before. It lasted 3 minutes. No longer. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Did a Psychologist make the diagnosis on this? It seems strange that this changed over a long period of time.


Yes. If you read that article it explains it. I know it's long. 

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Moliverna said:


> Yes. If you read that article it explains it. I know it's long.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Yes a Psychologist made the diagnosis?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Moliverna said:


> Yes. If you read that article it explains it. I know it's long.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Many mental health issues share symptoms and behaviors. Additionally, sometimes people may appear to be mentally is when the truth is they are just jackasses or simply don't like you. You can't diagnose a mental health issue from some article. What people are asking is did your wife go to a psychiatrist or psychologist and receive a diagnosis?


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> Many mental health issues share symptoms and behaviors. Additionally, sometimes people may appear to be mentally is when the truth is they are just jackasses or simply don't like you. You can't diagnose a mental health issue from some article. What people are asking is did your wife go to a psychiatrist or psychologist and receive a diagnosis?


Yes she was diagnosed years before we met. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Yes a Psychologist made the diagnosis?


Well it was years before we met. She didn't say what type of Dr diagnosed her but A Dr diagnosed her. It's all I know and she doesn't like talking about it. 

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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

Moliverna said:


> her rude and uncaring behavior won't work for me. It's not enough for me to stay.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk



I've stood where you stand now. Please forgive this 2X4 to the head...


Your wife wants direct, blunt, and honest behavior. You give her indirect, subtle, and passive-aggressive behavior. To her, this is rude and uncaring. To me, this is the critic censuring his own behavior in another...the pot calling the kettle black.

How about taking the time to fix yourself instead of focusing so much on her?

If you are going to go, why not leave the neediness and co-dependency behind?


--BT


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

She does NOT want direct, blunt and honest behavior lol. She wants me to like her behavior and go along with it. I also think it's hard for you to see the full picture. You're only getting my point of view. I am in no way uncaring to my Wife. I do everything for her even when I'm not happy with something She did or said. I think my behavior now is from years of abuse from her. I never yell or swear at her and I do everything around the house. She's living the dream. You act like I'm an ******* to her. I think if I'm that far in the wrong that one of the two counselors we've seen would have said something by now. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not perfect by any means. You go ahead and tell me what I need to do to fix myself. I'll taken it to my counselor Wednesday and see what I can do to fix it

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Not that this is an excuse for my negative responses to her behavior but I've got severe chronic pain from a car wreck I deal with everyday









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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Moliverna said:


> Yes she was diagnosed years before we met.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


So, you're married to a person with a mental health disorder and your options are to stay with her "as is" or to divorce. You're going to have to choose one because she is who she is and she's not going to change into who you thought she was or who you want her to be.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> So, you're married to a person with a mental health disorder and your options are to stay with her "as is" or to divorce. You're going to have to choose one because she is who she is and she's not going to change into who you thought she was or who you want her to be.


I've heard that there are some types of counseling that may help us. I'll never get the loving woman I married but it could help. 

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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Moliverna said:


> I've heard that there are some types of counseling that may help us. I'll never get the loving woman I married but it could help.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Therapy requires two things. 1) complete honesty between patient and therapist and 2) dedication and hard work on the part of the patient. You've clearly stated your wife is NOT interested in seeking the help and/or doing the work.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> Therapy requires two things. 1) complete honesty between patient and therapist and 2) dedication and hard work on the part of the patient. You've clearly stated your wife is NOT interested in seeking the help and/or doing the work.


Correct. Shows no interest. I was trying to think positive lol. I know if I ever decide I've had enough and leave she'll all of a sudden want counseling again. She'd not be wanting to do it so it probably wouldn't work for us. 

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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Moliverna said:


> Correct. Shows no interest. I was trying to think positive lol. I know if I ever decide I've had enough and leave she'll all of a sudden want counseling again. She'd not be wanting to do it so it probably wouldn't work for us.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Meaning you either accept her as is or divorce.


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> Meaning you either accept her as is or divorce.


Essentially yes.


My wife's ASD traits have not changed one bit. Her behaviors have changed substantially since diagnosis.

Accept the woman. Work on the behavior.


Or...divorce and work on the Co-dependency / "Nice guy" stuff before hitting the dating scene.

BT


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

CSA creates huge problems as an adult. You at least need to find an IC with experience in the field to help you cope. Some femle CSA marry the guy they should but resort to adultery with those types of men who abused her and abuse her as the original abuser did. Yours has instead frozen her emotions and isolated herself. 

You cannot fix her, but you can gain a better understanding of her.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

JohnA said:


> CSA creates huge problems as an adult. You at least need to find an IC with experience in the field to help you cope. Some femle CSA marry the guy they should but resort to adultery with those types of men who abused her and abuse her as the original abuser did. Yours has instead frozen her emotions and isolated herself.
> 
> You cannot fix her, but you can gain a better understanding of her.


Agreed 

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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Also most of the advise given to BS here is wrong in your case. Following it will make the situation worst. Which is why you need an IC with the proper background one mostly with a PhD. 

There is a question of nature vs nurture at work. How much is the nature of your wife's Behavior is simply hardwired vs has nutureimg re-enforced the pre-disposition of her hardwire. 

Again you, need an IC. 

Please read Uptowns posts about BPD. There is overlap. You will notice many things that do not apply but because of the overlap you will see things that do apply. You wil also notice the same with cluster B personalities. 

Be well and trend softly.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

My counselor told me she remembers my Wife telling her that she was right on the line for asp. This is all a lot to process....

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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Asp ?


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

JohnA said:


> Asp ?


Yea 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Ugh another update. We can add borderline personality disorder to the list. I don't know if I can take anymore damn surprise grenades thrown at me. This is so much to deal with. 

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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

At some point you have to stop playing Wheel Of Diagnosis and recognize that, even with years of therapy and hard work, she will still be broken and decide if you're staying or going.

I recommend going and soon.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> At some point you have to stop playing Wheel Of Diagnosis and recognize that, even with years of therapy and hard work, she will still be broken and decide if you're staying or going.
> 
> I recommend going and soon.


choosing to up and leave is not that simple for me. It's a complex situation for me at the moment. If there was no child, no house, no cars and no money to split in half it would be as simple as you make it seem. Also if she had no mental disorders I just found out about it would be a simple choice. Trust me I understand I only get one chance at life and I need to make it the best I can. 

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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Um, you didnt just find out about her mental disorders, you have known about them all this time. They were just given a name now. No, leaving isnt simple, but that doesnt mean it isnt the right decision. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life walking on eggshells? Being treated as less than? You said yourself, you get one life, and you cannot fix her. 

See my signature.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

It's not as simple for me as it would be for you. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

I am not planning on staying in this situation as is though. Things will change one way or another for me. 

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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Moliverna said:


> choosing to up and leave is not that simple for me. It's a complex situation for me at the moment. If there was no child, no house, no cars and no money to split in half it would be as simple as you make it seem. Also if she had no mental disorders I just found out about it would be a simple choice. Trust me I understand I only get one chance at life and I need to make it the best I can.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


So if you're staying, with a dysfunctional wife, there is only one right path: educate yourself, get yourself to a therapist who will arm you with the right actions to take in specific circumstances. It will help you learn how to deal with things without going crazy.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

turnera said:


> So if you're staying, with a dysfunctional wife, there is only one right path: educate yourself, get yourself to a therapist who will arm you with the right actions to take in specific circumstances. It will help you learn how to deal with things without going crazy.


That's where I started today. Started seeing someone who specializes in this. He said one way or another it will get better for me or us depending on the outcome. 

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Moliverna said:


> That's where I started today. Started seeing someone who specializes in this. He said one way or another it will get better for me or us depending on the outcome.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Well that at least sounds better. Why are you staying might I ask?


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Well that at least sounds better. Why are you staying might I ask?


I'm staying because I have faith it may work out. I put too much into this to just give up. I also dont feel like splitting everything I have in half. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Ok well I don't did it! I thank God I decided to leave her. Told her the other day I'm filing for divorce. Oh my god I felt so good ever since. It's a sign that it was the right move and well overdue. I also didn't need to worry about splitting up a lot of things I was worried about. I have an annuity I set up from a car wreck 20 years ago and it matures in 3 weeks. But I won it and invested it before we met so she can't touch it. She was so mean yesterday and i had enough. It crossed the line for me. Thank you everyone who pushed me to leave and choose happiness. 

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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Hi Fellow Floridian

I'm 65 yrs old and been around the horn a few times. I got divorced when my two boys were 7 & 11. Let me tell you. That was the dumbest thing I've ever done. I thought of me and not those two boys by getting divorced. Stupid Stupid on my part. But, at the time the wife was a ***** and you can see a better life on the other side. Yes, I will agree life is more fun on the other side. But, it wasn't for those two boys. Even though I saw them every weekend and I went to every ball game, life wasn't the same for them. Only when I got older did I realize I made a mistake and they were a victim of circumstances.

Now, I will tell you what I should have done. I should have stayed in the relationship & sucked it up. It's just as easy to ignore her as it is for her to ignore you. In reality who cares about her. In fact give her an antler hat & white gloves during hunting season and take her for a walk in the woods. Get the picture?

Your children are the most important thing right now, not your sex life. Raise your family like they are supposed to be until emancipation. Then when the time is right dump the ***** old lady like a hot potato. The bond you will create with your children will be priceless for years. If you get divorced there will always be resentment.

It took me years after my boys were grown and gone to gain there respect as their father. Let me tell you it was twice the work than if I stayed with the *****.

Trust me I'm not wrong

Tom


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> Hi Fellow Floridian
> 
> I'm 65 yrs old and been around the horn a few times. I got divorced when my two boys were 7 & 11. Let me tell you. That was the dumbest thing I've ever done. I thought of me and not those two boys by getting divorced. Stupid Stupid on my part. But, at the time the wife was a ***** and you can see a better life on the other side. Yes, I will agree life is more fun on the other side. But, it wasn't for those two boys. Even though I saw them every weekend and I went to every ball game, life wasn't the same for them. Only when I got older did I realize I made a mistake and they were a victim of circumstances.
> 
> ...


Hey Tom. My case is pretty severe. What you're suggesting I stay with and just put up with is almost insanity. I totally understand what youre saying though. I am not even thinking about other women and sex right now. Haven't been on my mind at all. When your spouse is so ****ed up that it's affecting your health in a negative way it's deffinatley time for a break. She's been going off on me now here and there in the last year and also brought the son into the middle of it once. That was a line she crossed where I almost left right there. I actually feel bad for her. She's not all there mentally. And every fight we have messes her up even more. She's got borderline personality disorder, aspergers and a narscassist. Those three things makes anyone fit for the fuqin circus. Google those 3 things and read what it's like living with someone that just has one of these fantastic conditions. I'm really worried about my son and I'm not sure what to do. He's home schooled by her! God help us! Anytime I tell her in a soft quiet way how she's hurting me she'll turn it around, blame me and attack me with emails. You can't not like her messed up behaviors or else you get the offensive from her. I'm not a fragile little dip**** but I do have limits and ahes broken past them all. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Moliverna said:


> Hey Tom. My case is pretty severe. What you're suggesting I stay with and just put up with is almost insanity. I totally understand what youre saying though. I am not even thinking about other women and sex right now. Haven't been on my mind at all. When your spouse is so ****ed up that it's affecting your health in a negative way it's deffinatley time for a break. She's been going off on me now here and there in the last year and also brought the son into the middle of it once. That was a line she crossed where I almost left right there. I actually feel bad for her. She's not all there mentally. And every fight we have messes her up even more. She's got borderline personality disorder, aspergers and a narscassist. Those three things makes anyone fit for the fuqin circus. Google those 3 things and read what it's like living with someone that just has one of these fantastic conditions. I'm really worried about my son and I'm not sure what to do. He's home schooled by her! God help us! Anytime I tell her in a soft quiet way how she's hurting me she'll turn it around, blame me and attack me with emails. You can't not like her messed up behaviors or else you get the offensive from her. I'm not a fragile little dip**** but I do have limits and ahes broken past them all.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Also when my son who's 9 grows up and has any resentment towards me I'll be informing him what I went through. I'll show him emails of her attacking me if he wants proof. I would never do this when they're to young to understand and I'd never do it to turn him against his mother. I'd explain how she was abusing me and offer proof if need be but I'd also ask him to not hold any grudges against her if possible. I'd tell him how she had a rough childhood and it affected how she acted as an adult but I'd never give him specifics on her abuse. I'm not choosing a party life full of women and sex over a happy marriage. Because it's anything but loving and happy. She's a miserable [email protected] that will bring anyone else around down with her. 

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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

golfer6760 said:


> Hi Fellow Floridian
> 
> I'm 65 yrs old and been around the horn a few times. I got divorced when my two boys were 7 & 11. Let me tell you. That was the dumbest thing I've ever done. I thought of me and not those two boys by getting divorced. Stupid Stupid on my part. But, at the time the wife was a ***** and you can see a better life on the other side. Yes, I will agree life is more fun on the other side. But, it wasn't for those two boys. Even though I saw them every weekend and I went to every ball game, life wasn't the same for them. Only when I got older did I realize I made a mistake and they were a victim of circumstances.
> 
> ...


This is a terrible thing to tell this OP. Did you even read the thread?? He has been abused, and NO ONE should stay in a situation like his.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> This is a terrible thing to tell this OP. Did you even read the thread?? He has been abused, and NO ONE should stay in a situation like his.


Very true. It's been hell. Pure hell and I'll bet a thousand I stayed longer than %80 of the average man would have. Oh yea and she just replied to my question about if she had a preference if I file this or next year for tax reasons. She said I don't want a divorce. 3 days of talking **** to me about me and that's her bull**** reply. I asked how in the **** could you want to stay with me after the hell you claim I put you through? She says I made an appt with a mental health professional on Monday and our counselor Tuesday and said it was the quickest she could make an appt. Meaning the last 6 months they been booked or she was too busy to call for an appt. She's so full of ****. 

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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If you're smart you'll stay on your current course.

Quit wasting your life and setting a bad example for your son. Would you want him staying in something like this?

You are teaching him whether you know it or not.


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## Camper292000 (Nov 7, 2015)

Hey OP, very sorry to hear your story. Maybe read some things on the forum at jebkinnison. Com. Hang in there and be the best dad you can be. 

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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

What you are describing is totally consistent with a Borderline.

What have you read about it? 

I Hate You - Don't Leave Me! https://www.cappcny.org/home/media/i-hate-you-dont-leave-me.pdf


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Moliverna said:


> Hey Tom. My case is pretty severe. What you're suggesting I stay with and just put up with is almost insanity. I totally understand what youre saying though. I am not even thinking about other women and sex right now. Haven't been on my mind at all. When your spouse is so ****ed up that it's affecting your health in a negative way it's deffinatley time for a break. She's been going off on me now here and there in the last year and also brought the son into the middle of it once. That was a line she crossed where I almost left right there. I actually feel bad for her. She's not all there mentally. And every fight we have messes her up even more. She's got borderline personality disorder, aspergers and a narscassist. Those three things makes anyone fit for the fuqin circus. Google those 3 things and read what it's like living with someone that just has one of these fantastic conditions. I'm really worried about my son and I'm not sure what to do. He's home schooled by her! God help us! Anytime I tell her in a soft quiet way how she's hurting me she'll turn it around, blame me and attack me with emails. You can't not like her messed up behaviors or else you get the offensive from her. I'm not a fragile little dip**** but I do have limits and ahes broken past them all.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
> Double post sorry


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Tron said:


> What you are describing is totally consistent with a Borderline.
> 
> What have you read about it?
> 
> I Hate You - Don't Leave Me! https://www.cappcny.org/home/media/i-hate-you-dont-leave-me.pdf


Yep I've read that one. She's got parts of borderline personality disorder and narscassist as well. But she's not an exact match for those. As well as aspergers. It's very complex. 

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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

Well finally the end is coming. She kicked me out of the house 6 weeks ago for a few days. Then a week ago she did again because I refused to listen to her abuse me I said I won't talk about this until her therapy. She said fine get out and we'll talk about that in therapy. When she kicked me out the first time I decided to sell my annuity to jg wentworth so I could live if she kicked me out again. I just got it and she was furious I bought a newer truck. She wanted that money. She was attacking me verbally , email and in texts for 6 days. So I been in a motel for a week. She agreed to spend d 3 weeks apart then talk about what to do with the future. I've already decided what I'm doing. I'm looking for a house to buy. I refuse to go homeless on a whim. I got a lawyer for men as well. My money I won befkre we met is untouchable to her and I have a roggt to buy a house she can't touch either. SHE is kicking me out for no reason. I need a place to live. It will not be able to be touched as a marital asset.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

WHY have you allowed her to kick you out of your home??


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> WHY have you allowed her to kick you out of your home??


Well it's complicated. I sold an annuity I had for a few hundred thousand and I'm ready to move on. She doesn't have rights to that money. I invested befkre we met. If I allowed her to kick me out twice now than in the courts eyes they'll understand even more that I need to buy my own place with my money. It was more aboit showing the court that I'm homeless. She's not made any sort of home let alone happy home for her family. It's more aboit proving my case in the event that there's a big court case with custody or alimony and what not.


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## Moliverna (Apr 9, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> WHY have you allowed her to kick you out of your home??


Also she paid for our house with her ira last year. That's pre tax dollars. So the 300k she spent is now considered income in the irs eyes. I can gift anything I want in a divorce. I want to gift my half of the house to her including the full 108k in taxes she'll owe from the 300k she spent. She's told me and made me feel that this is her house. Not our house. Not our families house. Just her house. Well, she can have it plus the race on the 300k


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

You said you got a lawyer, did he tell you about your finance distribution. Make sure she can't touch anything your cashing out and make sure that she can't claim anything you buy. You probably need a separation agreement to break the 'marital assets' before you buy a house, but ASK YOUR LAWYER EVERYTHING and follow his advice!


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Moliverna said:


> We've been married for 17 years together for 19 years. From the beginning the relationship was great. Sex was great. Communication was great. For the last 7 years she's been slipping away emotionally. Right before our son was born it started. We moved to Florida 2.5 years ago and she was emotionally gone right after. Cold as ice to me. Hates sex. Doesn't show me any emotion. Does not do anything in a loving way towards me at all. She's nice to any animal or any other person. Very nice to anyone else. Neutral or mean sometimes towards me I could not take it anymore last August after numerous requests we try counseling. She would always ignore me and not even respond. I had to get her attention somehow. I signed up for a few dating sites and left my computer on so she'd see it. She did and boy was she upset and hurt. She figured it out that I never even talked to anyone on the sites and was only trying to get her attention. So we started counseling and I really thought things would get better. We didn't even have any serious issues like infidelity to fight over. Just her lack of everything a marriage needs. I come to find out after a few sessions of counseling that she was abused as a child for a long period of time by a relative. I thought part of me died inside when I heard. She didn't tell me a lot of details but enough for sure. She was born with a rare bone disease and has had surgeries since she was 3. Her mother treated her as an equal and not as a daughter. So there was no love from her mother at all. Her mom broke up the marriage and tried her best to hide the kids from the father. My wife has been through a hell i can't even imagine since she was 3. I found all this out soon after counseling started. It all started making sense.
> 
> She constantly ignores any and all of my needs. She told me a month ago she just can't give me any affection anymore. It reminds her of her abuser. She said that after I asked her if she would hug me every now and then? I felt like I reminded her of her abuser. Which really cute me. I used to get mad and give her the silent treatment after she'd ignore me after while. My frustration builds and then I just stop talking to her in anger. Now that I known what she's dealing with it can handle it for longer periods but I always end up avoiding her and not talking. Not out-of anger but out of hurt and pain. She always thinks I'm mad because she wouldn't have sex on this or that night. I can go without sex. It's hard to go without any affection whatsoever though. No days she's glued to her phone or laptop. Sometimes even has headphones on all day. Very irritating. Some days she hardly talks to me. She doesn't work. She's disabled with knee problems.
> 
> The counseling might be helping her but it's NOT helping us in the marriage. She's actually gotten worse towards me. She's added in yelling and swearing at me which I've never seen her do to anyone. It's only happened a few times but it really scared me I already thought she can care less about me and then you ad in yelling and swearing at me. I felt like running away forever. She also never apologizes for anything she ever does or says. She can't do that. She does however give excuses. It's always blamed on a flare up or the prednisone made me yell at you. Lame excuses but I foregive her. It's really hard to forget when they don't take any ownership or responsibility. I feel like my life is in turmoil. I feel isolated from her. She'll talk about things and be like this or that's "mine" never ours. It's always her not ours. It's like she doesn't know what marriage is about. At times she sounds selfish. I don't want to leave her. I can't leave her. With everything she's been through, if I left her it'd just be another betrayal in her life. I couldn't do that to anyone. Plus I made a commitment before god. The counselor explained how people who are abused like this that the spouse always takes a lot of heat from the one who was abused. I'm really not looking forward to 30 years of this behavior. It's so hard for me to deal with this. The nicest thing shes done or said to me in the last few years was "thanks for cleaning the house" via text message. The worst is how I remind her of her abuser. It's tearing me apart.



- married 17 years, been together 19 years

- beginning sex and communication were great

-suddenly, last 7 years her sex drive and emotional closeness to you starts quickly disappearing

- she got pregnant

- right before your son was born is when this all suddenly started

- Now there is no sex, cold as ice and distant emotionally

- Turns out she was abused as a child by a relative and never got help

- She has never been close with her mother

- She has bone issues that required surgeries

- you've pretty much allowed her to kick you out of your house?!


(01) Either her hormones were badly changed when she had the baby and are really off and she requires meds

(02) Her latent abuse come out when she had the baby and now she needs counseling and help

(03) This is not your child and she had an affair


I agree with the marriage vows but when married, you both aren't you own anymore. You are to take care of each others needs as your own and not yourself. Otherwise, that's a deal breaker in my books.


You could temporarily separate, she gets help and then get back together.


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## UniversityDude (Dec 27, 2017)

Buddy if that is what you are thinking of doing regarding your plan for the court to allow you to purchase a house, dont post it here. remove your comment. just saying..


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It sounds to me like you're doing thinks with great legal ramifications because you "think" you can.

You aren't thinking clearly. Before you do anything regarding money, get a property settlement and divorce. That's all there is to it. You are setting yourself up to get totally screwed.
It makes no difference what you want or what you think she'll do.

Only thing that matters is what the judge says.


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