# My Story so far ... very much in the fog still



## Someday28#

Greetings , I am new to this board and have read some of the threads and there seems to be some wisdom here , let me share my situation not sure if it belongs on reconciliation but that is my hope so lets see what you think. 

My wife and I have been together for 28 years , married for 23 I am 50 she is 48 our son is 18 still at home but I have not been home since early may . Our relationship was amazing like something out of storybook and for all but the last 10 or so years just about perfect in every way . Over the last 10 years the stress of life .. work/buying a house/ providing for my wife and son with disability and some financial troubles wore me down and stressed me out and without realizing it I have became very cruel with my words and would hurt my wife with them . I have NEVER physically hurt her but my words were mean and hurtful . I was never screaming or threatening as much as I would call her lazy or slacker or some other demoralizing adjective and go on and on because of some irrelevant task she had not gotten to for the last 3 days . Over the years this wore her self esteem to nil and she became very depressed . I never realized I was hurting her so much and thought my words were justified because I was only listening to my own voice and looking at the world thru blinders and in denial of my issues. I would be good for a few days then would mess up and do it again then be good for a few more days . Finally it became to much for her and she filed a restraining order against me for emotional abuse and I left the house . A week or so after filing the order she modified it so we could communicate by text email or phone and could meet in public places with the concept of reconciliation. 

You would think if someone was treating you like that and it hurt your feelings that you would tell me hey WTF stop treating me like that but she never did , never really defended her self ... it just ate away at her , again I never hurt her physically or threatened her just was an ass with my words . She went thru a terrible childhood abused verbally , physically , and sexually for years by family members . That had reinforced that you don't argue or fight back or you will get hurt Physically or worse . She never put me in my place or let me know I needed to stop because she thought words would lead to action she feared it would be the same with me like it was with her family members ( it never would have) My issues had a perfect environment to fester and grow unchecked and gradually over time it became to much for her . 

I know I am completely at fault for the way I was with my words and I have been in IC for the last 3 months learning about my issues and how to cope better with my triggers and how to control my anxiety as well as voluntarily joining a Batterers Intervention program that folks are ordered to by court to go to usually . I joined it because nothing is more important to me then fixing me and earning back the Love and respect of my wife and son . I am have learned much and I will continue my IC until I have fixed my issues and most likely for some time after to help me maintain so I never hurt her again with my words like I was . Her own issues and her past played a part in this situation but I accept that I am the main culprit even though I was unaware of the damage I was doing and never meant to hurt her ever as she has been my Love and best friend for 28 years .

She is in IC atm as well and has been told she has C-PTSD because the stuff I was doing brought back the stuff from her past. Over the last 3 months we have been riding a roller coaster . Shortly after the separation she and I started contacting thru letters and right off she sent me one saying she wanted to fix our issues and make this work because she still loved me and wanted me in her life and that we just had to get our IC and then MC after we were thru IC enough to start MC . we exchanged letters on what we would require to move forward and began to implement them We have gone out on amazing dates and dinners had some tough days and good days adjustments here and there learning how to do what we never had enough of ... communication and thru the IC were using a limited contact 1 date somewhere public a week and texting or letters at the advice of her IC and it was going well steadily moving forward . after one date in particular at a carnival at the beach about a month ago she sent me a letter thru text at 5 am the next morning saying she woke up an couldn't get back to sleep telling me what an amazing time she had and but that the time spent walking back along the beach just talking to me without having to fear how I would react to what she said or criticizing her like I would have in the past was amazing and then she thanked me for finding the man she knew was hidden inside me ( the one she married ) and bringing him back to the surface .She thanked me for taking the situation seriously and not thinking she wasn't worth it and seeking help . She thanked me for realizing she deserved to be treated better and thanked me for making great strides to show her better treatment. She thanked me for proving that dreams could come true . She would often say in other texts or letters " I am healing and we are on the right path but please be patient with me I am healing but it will take time "

I felt as if we were doing fantastic ( her letters supported this ) it we were fixing it and saving our marriage and that I would be coming home at some point but then drastically the next week the day after her next therapy session she texts me and tells me that she wants only contact for financial or household matters because when she is talking to me or texting me or seeing me she tends to only focus on my wants or needs and it's preventing her from healing and that if she does not heal from the C-PTSD then we don't stand a chance so now we have had not had any contact for a month and only brief interaction on text about some bills and house sh*t. I asked her if we could talk some her reply was " I am not ready to reply yet because I am s Working thru a lot of sh*t" . I didn't reply to her and 45 mins later she replied "Sorry just trying to be honest . I feel that's the best thing for me to do, struggling with a lot of sh*t " . 

It would always seem that the 2 to 3 days after therapy was always when we had tough days almost like a pattern and atm I have no Idea what to think . I want to reconcile very much so and I understand that she needs to heal and regain her self esteem enough before she can think about working on the marriage and I am working on my own therapy while she does but she has become so distant now I am trying to understand what might be happening and not assume the worst . Trying to avoid divorce and initially I thought she was as well , perhaps this is part of the healing process with C-PTSD Im not sure . I'm in this tough place between hanging on and thinking divorce may be unavoidable . There is nothing I can do atm to help fix this as the ball is in her court . I am thinking that I have been to desperate and needy as I felt so guilty about what I was doing to her and I fear it may have pushed her away . I am thinking about taking the 180 U turn approach what do you think ?


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## bobert

First off, I think it's great that you sought help and that you are taking steps to improve yourself. It is a step that you needed to take and that will benefit you whether or not you stay married to your wife.

Similar to your wife, my wife was abused as a child. She has spent most of this year as an inpatient in a mental health hospital to recover from that childhood abuse and everything that stems from it. If I were to simplify her diagnosis, PTSD (or C-PTSD, or DESNOS; not all doctors will use those terms) is in there. I also treated my wife like crap for a long time, in the same ballpark as yourself. Now, my situation is different than yours because my marriage fell apart after my wife's infidelity, however, this may still be of relevance to you.

My wife has said several times that maybe she would be better off alone or able to heal better if we were apart. She has never gone through with that, out of fear of losing me to someone else, but it has come out after therapy sessions. And you know what? It is probably true. I bet she WOULD do a lot better if the focus were 100% on herself. If she were stronger or had a guarantee that I would wait, I wouldn't be at all shocked if she wanted time alone. She is so focused on me and our marriage that her own recovery is placed on the back burner at times. So, maybe another way to look at it is being glad that your wife is willing and able to stand up for herself and what SHE needs for once. If anything, know that your wife isn't alone in saying that she needs time to be alone and it doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't want you. 

Another thing to note is that your wife probably doesn't trust you yet. Chances are she was starting to see the man that she married, but she doesn't trust that he's really back. And why would she? By your own admission, you treated her poorly for the past 10 years and many abusers will stop the abuse temporarily until they get their victim back. Your wife may know that cycle well. I can say that my wife knows the cycle of abuse very well, and she has expressed concern many times that she's worried I will go back to treating her the way I was. The one thing that you haven't done for the past decade is respect your wife. Well, now is your chance. She asked for space, so give her space.

My wife and I have been living separately for 6 months, so I understand that it is very difficult - if not impossible - to repair a marriage without being under the same room, let alone without communication. This is not a situation that calls for a 180, though IMO. It calls for patience. What you need to decide is how much time YOU are willing and able to give her, and that is a decision only you can make. There is no right or wrong answer. 

There are a few books that may help you. They are written for the partner/spouse of someone who experienced childhood abuse.

What About Me? by Grant Cameron
Allies in Healing by Laura Davis
Outgrowing the Pain Together by Eliana Gil


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## TJW

Someday28# said:


> I am thinking about taking the 180 U turn approach what do you think ?


The 180 is a terrific idea. Develop your independence from your wife. Your wife is developing her independence from you. She's becoming assertive in her own behalf, she is indeed healing. Perhaps, you can heal, too.

You don't bear the entire fault for what happened, I mean, yes, you have good insight as to how your behavior perpetuated a fear in your wife that she didn't know how to overcome. As a child, she was dependent upon her abusers. She continued this pattern into adulthood and became dependent upon you.

You should concentrate now upon the reasons why you behaved as you did toward your wife and how you failed in self-control. Healing will take time, for you, too..... and time to figure out why your behavior patterns were likely learned in your family-of-origin and perpetuated by you into adulthood.


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## Spicy

It sounds like she has already 180’d you...


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## Someday28#

TJW said:


> You don't bear the entire fault for what happened, I mean, yes, you have good insight as to how your behavior perpetuated a fear in your wife that she didn't know how to overcome. As a child, she was dependent upon her abusers. She continued this pattern into adulthood and became dependent upon you.
> 
> You should concentrate now upon the reasons why you behaved as you did toward your wife and how you failed in self-control. Healing will take time, for you, too..... and time to figure out why your behavior patterns were likely learned in your family-of-origin and perpetuated by you into adulthood.


 TJW Thank you for that , I felt like it was not only my mistakes that led to this , if we had had the normal level of communication perhaps we both would have gotten into IC years ago and this could have been avoided . Thru this process as we have talked I have learned from my wife that when she was taken away from her family at age 11 ( the abuse started at age 4 ) she did not participate in therapy the state tried to provide her and never really dealt with all of the baggage from her past just put it in the back of her mind , which never works because eventually it comes back to haunt .

My IC is focused upon what caused me to become the way I became to her and It is showing me that it does seem that my behavior patterns were something I learned from my childhood . I was an only child My father was gone at age 3 and was a lifelong violent hardened criminal spent 95 percent of my childhood and then almost all of my adult life incarcerated so I never really developed a good sense of the right way to be a Husband and Father, my Mom was great and did the best she could but I never had the positive Male role model in my life . I did well at first but as stresses increased it broke me and I stop paying attention to what matters . I always worked hard and provided food shelter and support for my family but emotionally I failed as time went by . You feel the 180 is good Bobert says it calls for patience perhaps it calls for both . I suppose what happens next will depend upon her next interaction with me and how I respond to it and If I am willing to ride out this storm ( which I really want to ) , I am just unsure if she will decide to give up and I am getting 0 encouragement from her atm . The last time we had a dialog she said " please be patient with my while I work thru my issues , this isn't about you or us its about me and my healing and I need to heal before we can work on the marriage " 
Recently when she texted a mutual friend to wish him a happy birthday they started a dialog and he asked if she and I were okay and still moving in the right direction , she replied " we are okay I just need this time to heal myself , when I am around him or texting with him it leans me to focus on his wants and needs and I stop thinking about my own issues and healing " Last week she was having a brief messenger discussion with my mom and said " I need him to know this Can Be worked out because I do love him I am just afraid of him slipping into his old habits . " She is very broken from her past and my behavior . I just wish she would say encouraging things like that to me ... I suppose she knows that the stuff she said to them would get back to me so perhaps indirectly she has . She might not be able to be strong when it comes to me with her boundaries if she starts talking to me and so she is taking this hard stance when it comes to talking to me . I just wish I could know for sure but I suppose I never will until she decides to talk to me about us . I am just struggling between trusting her and self preservation atm 

I think the best thing I can do for now is to focus on the parts of my life that are not in turmoil and work on healing me . It's just very difficult and I am struggling but still holding some hope .


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## Someday28#

bobert said:


> First off, I think it's great that you sought help and that you are taking steps to improve yourself. It is a step that you needed to take and that will benefit you whether or not you stay married to your wife.
> 
> Similar to your wife, my wife was abused as a child. She has spent most of this year as an inpatient in a mental health hospital to recover from that childhood abuse and everything that stems from it. If I were to simplify her diagnosis, PTSD (or C-PTSD, or DESNOS; not all doctors will use those terms) is in there. I also treated my wife like crap for a long time, in the same ballpark as yourself. Now, my situation is different than yours because my marriage fell apart after my wife's infidelity, however, this may still be of relevance to you.
> 
> My wife has said several times that maybe she would be better off alone or able to heal better if we were apart. She has never gone through with that, out of fear of losing me to someone else, but it has come out after therapy sessions. And you know what? It is probably true. I bet she WOULD do a lot better if the focus were 100% on herself. If she were stronger or had a guarantee that I would wait, I wouldn't be at all shocked if she wanted time alone. She is so focused on me and our marriage that her own recovery is placed on the back burner at times. So, maybe another way to look at it is being glad that your wife is willing and able to stand up for herself and what SHE needs for once. If anything, know that your wife isn't alone in saying that she needs time to be alone and it doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't want you.
> 
> Another thing to note is that your wife probably doesn't trust you yet. Chances are she was starting to see the man that she married, but she doesn't trust that he's really back. And why would she? By your own admission, you treated her poorly for the past 10 years and many abusers will stop the abuse temporarily until they get their victim back. Your wife may know that cycle well. I can say that my wife knows the cycle of abuse very well, and she has expressed concern many times that she's worried I will go back to treating her the way I was. The one thing that you haven't done for the past decade is respect your wife. Well, now is your chance. She asked for space, so give her space.
> 
> My wife and I have been living separately for 6 months, so I understand that it is very difficult - if not impossible - to repair a marriage without being under the same room, let alone without communication. This is not a situation that calls for a 180, though IMO. It calls for patience. What you need to decide is how much time YOU are willing and able to give her, and that is a decision only you can make. There is no right or wrong answer.
> 
> There are a few books that may help you. They are written for the partner/spouse of someone who experienced childhood abuse.
> 
> What About Me? by Grant Cameron
> Allies in Healing by Laura Davis
> Outgrowing the Pain Together by Eliana Gil


 Thank you Bobert for the reply , Its nice to know I'm not the only one in this " ballpark " . She had suggested that having herself checked in would be a probably be a faster way to this but then she would loose her job most likely and she is a department manager and has done very well with her career in the last 6 years and it is a source of pride for her and her self image . I have always encouraged her and expressed pride in this regard as she built this job up from nothing working from home . She has said that she still struggles with trusting me fully given the circumstances that brought us here and I can understand that . You are right The best way I can show her respect is to give her what she is asking for which atm is space to allow her to heal . 

I just worry that she is playing me because of the sudden shift in behavior in the last month and is just staying in the house for free while she build up her finances and escape plan . She has never been the devious type over the last 28 years . I know that's a trust issue on my end but in light of the lack of communication and distance of late , it's easy to think that way and trust can be hard to come by . I just need to focus on improving myself but I think I may still consult with a Lawyer this week just to wrap my brain around my rights and options and start preparing for the worst while I hope for the best .

I will check out those books thank you for listing them .


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## Someday28#

Spicy said:


> It sounds like she has already 180’d you...


 Can you elaborate the 180 can be done for more then one reason , what do you think ?


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## Mr.Married

It sounds like you should let your wife go her own direction...which ever her choice. You have not provided the kind of safe Harbor required for her own healing. Her constant doubt of you (sounds well earned) will only leave her in a constant state of floudering around in her mind. She will always question herself about you returning to your previous self.


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## StarFires

Yes it was entirely your fault. Please don't believe anyone telling you it wasn't. There is nothing about her, nothing she did, nothing she said, and nothing in her childhood that made you become abusive to her. That is all - one hundred percent - on you. It might relieve you a little bit of guilt for someone to say it wasn't your fault, but it's a false statement. Completely false.

And, you say now that you wouldn't have become physically abusive, but the greater likelihood is you would have. You were verbally, emotionally, and mentally abusive to your wife. It's all intimidation. You fell short of physical abuse for the reasons you stated - that she didn't challenge you or try to take up for herself. The same narcissism or whatever personality disorder that made you think it was okay to intimidate her with your verbal, emotional, and mental abuse would also have prompted you to be physically abusive for the same reasons that other abusive men abuse by intimidation and then escalate to physical violence - their spouse/girlfriend challenge them by trying to take up for themselves. Your domestic violence only fell short and didn't escalate to the physically violent aspect because she cowered. 

She is right to back off, and it's probably because of therapy like you suspect. The more she learns about herself and about your disordered behavior, the more she understands she really shouldn't trust you. You stated yourself that your abusive tendencies would cycle, and that's one of the things she is learning about - that abuse cycles. Another one she's probably learning about is the hysterical need to bond, which was your desperate need to get her back and restore the relationship. It's all so very typical of abusive people, the abusive man in your case. The cycle of abuse is insidious and repetitive, particularly when the abuser realizes they are losing something as the price to pay for their actions: abuse - apologize - make promises to never do it again - be good for a short period of time - abuse - repeat. She has already experienced you cycling, so learning about the cycles of abuse lets her know not to trust that you won't go through the whole course of the cycle in the future. 

The only way to deal with an abusive person is to leave them, so don't be surprised if she learns that's the only way to deal with you. Divorce might, and really should, be inevitable. Even though you are regretful and say you want to save the marriage, are dealing with your own issues, and won't be abusive to her anymore, it's usually not be trusted because, frankly, that's what they all say. If she does decide to restore the marriage, then I hope you actually do mean what you say. So far, her therapist seems to be doing a great job, and I hope s/he continues.

If you decide to do the 180, I hope you won't be doing it as a ploy to further manipulate her and get her back, which would mean you are not at all sincere about your recovery or understanding of your own actions. It would just be a scheme and plan for making sure you get to continue the cycle. Also very typical.


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## Marc878

At this time she has asked for separation. Filed an RO. You should listen to what she's telling you and showing you.

In essence give her what she's asked for.


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## Red Sonja

Your opening post is full of victim-blaming and minimization of your abusive behavior.

You don't have any hope of improving yourself until and unless you fully own your behavior. Stress, money problems (etc.) don't cause people to abuse others ... how do I know this? Because abusers don't abuse their friends, their co-workers or others in their life, no, they choose to abuse their loved ones ... the ones who are most likely to "take it" because of the vulnerability that exists inside a love-relationship and, because it is shocking to have someone who is supposed to love you in your face while angry/yelling/criticizing/name-calling/blaming/etc. Abusing is a _choice_ on the part of the abuser, full stop.

For unknown reasons you _chose_ to not emotionally regulate your own self when life caused you stress and so, you felt entitled and safe in dumping on your wife (and son as fallout).

My advice is to let her go, let her heal and; pray that your 18 yo son _does not_ use you as an example of how to behave inside a relationship.


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## Blondilocks

Engaging the 180 and consulting with an attorney shows that it is still all about you. 

Yes, you are 100% responsible for this ****-show so take your lumps and allow your wife the time to heal enough to determine if she has what it takes to be married to you. It hasn't been a walk in the park for her for ten goddamn years so surely you can spare a few months or a year to save your marriage.


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## StarFires

Red Sonja said:


> Because abusers don't abuse their friends, their co-workers or others in their life, no, they choose to abuse their loved ones ... the ones who are most likely to "take it" because of the vulnerability that exists inside a love-relationship and, because it is shocking to have someone who is supposed to love you in your face while angry/yelling/criticizing/name-calling/blaming/etc. Abusing is a _choice_ on the part of the abuser, full stop.


That deserved repeating. I've always wondered why abused women don't see that for themselves. If a man were truly abusive, they would try to abuse their boss, co-workers, friends, siblings even, their wife's much bigger brothers. But no, they only abuse their wife and in some cases their kids too. They know those people are too weak to defend themselves and that those are the people who depend on them.


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## personofinterest

Red Sonja said:


> Your opening post is full of victim-blaming and minimization of your abusive behavior.
> 
> You don't have any hope of improving yourself until and unless you fully own your behavior. Stress, money problems (etc.) don't cause people to abuse others ... how do I know this? Because abusers don't abuse their friends, their co-workers or others in their life, no, they choose to abuse their loved ones ... the ones who are most likely to "take it" because of the vulnerability that exists inside a love-relationship and, because it is shocking to have someone who is supposed to love you in your face while angry/yelling/criticizing/name-calling/blaming/etc. Abusing is a _choice_ on the part of the abuser, full stop.
> 
> For unknown reasons you _chose_ to not emotionally regulate your own self when life caused you stress and so, you felt entitled and safe in dumping on your wife (and son as fallout).
> 
> My advice is to let her go, let her heal and; pray that your 18 yo son _does not_ use you as an example of how to behave inside a relationship.


I completely agree


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## personofinterest

Blondilocks said:


> Engaging the 180 and consulting with an attorney shows that it is still all about you.
> 
> Yes, you are 100% responsible for this ****-show so take your lumps and allow your wife the time to heal enough to determine if she has what it takes to be married to you. It hasn't been a walk in the park for her for ten goddamn years so surely you can spare a few months or a year to save your marriage.


Exactly


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## ConanHub

How is your individual counseling going OP?


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## bobert

Someday28# said:


> Thank you Bobert for the reply , Its nice to know I'm not the only one in this " ballpark " . She had suggested that having herself checked in would be a probably be a faster way to this but then she would loose her job most likely and she is a department manager and has done very well with her career in the last 6 years and it is a source of pride for her and her self image . I have always encouraged her and expressed pride in this regard as she built this job up from nothing working from home . She has said that she still struggles with trusting me fully given the circumstances that brought us here and I can understand that . You are right The best way I can show her respect is to give her what she is asking for which atm is space to allow her to heal.


Another suggestion is to find a support group for partners of CSA survivors or PTSD. It can help to realize that you are not alone in your marital problems. I find comfort in hearing others talk about their situations and being able to relate.

Residential treatment can be great for those who need it, but there are challenges with it as well. There are facilities that offer short term residential (under 30 days) or outpatient programs specific to your wife's issues that can be very helpful in kickstarting healing. There may also be a PHP/IOP/OP program near you that is flexible enough to work around your wife's work schedule (some are 3 days a week, 2-3/hours a day). It is very understandable that your wife doesn't want to give up her job, nor should she have to. It sounds like you have supported her career, if so great, keep on doing that!



> I just worry that she is playing me because of the sudden shift in behavior in the last month and is just staying in the house for free while she build up her finances and escape plan . She has never been the devious type over the last 28 years . I know that's a trust issue on my end but in light of the lack of communication and distance of late , it's easy to think that way and trust can be hard to come by . I just need to focus on improving myself but I think I may still consult with a Lawyer this week just to wrap my brain around my rights and options and start preparing for the worst while I hope for the best .


As hard as it is, I wouldn't judge a shift in behavior. If it makes you feel any better, I get into my head too, in a similar way. Your wife probably wouldn't be telling other people that she loves you, wants you, intends on being with you, etc. if it were not true. Sure you can conjure up theories but that isn't going to do you any good. All you can do is work with the information that you have right now and make the best decision you can with the information available. At some point, as your wife goes through therapy, she may decide that she is no longer willing to accept your treatment of her. That is something that you have to accept and if she makes that choice, respect it.

The 180 is done for YOU. It is not done to manipulate your spouse into coming back to you. I could be wrong, but the impression that I am getting from you is that if your wife doesn't respond how you want her to at the next communication, then you want to do the 180 to manipulate her into coming back to you. That is not acceptable. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with consulting a lawyer to know your own rights should things go sour. Don't you dare tell your wife that you saw a lawyer or try to use that as a manipulation tactic though. Do not dare give her an ultimatum right now. Trust me, it won't do you any good.

You do need to understand why you are the way you are and it is great that you are digging into it with IC and taking steps to better yourself. Many people don't seek help, so good job on that. However, don't ever blame your actions on your wife or marital problems. That is on you and only you. There is absolutely nothing that your wife did, could have done, or had done to her that made you verbally or emotionally abuse her. There is a good chance that if she had stood up to you that you would have become physically abusive. You may not like that, or even believe it, but chances are it's true. There is absolutely nothing that anyone can do to make you abuse them, or that can make it okay to treat someone that way. Nothing. Even if they themselves are abusive, you are still 100% to blame for your own actions.

Stop trying to control the situation and just let it be. Work on you and give your wife the respect that she deserves. That is all that you can do at this point.


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## 3Xnocharm

Honestly you are lucky she stuck around as long as she has and even speaks to you. Had this been me, I would have said to go **** yourself and filed for divorce long ago. Please give her space and let her go, give her that much respect at least.


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## personofinterest

3Xnocharm said:


> Honestly you are lucky she stuck around as long as she has and even speaks to you. Had this been me, I would have said to go **** yourself and filed for divorce long ago. Please give her space and let her go, give her that much respect at least.


Yes, exactly


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## Affaircare

@Someday28#,

Rather than being one of the ladies who joins the "Big Bad Man" chorus, let me share with you a few thoughts from a lady's point of view. 

It does sound to me like you are minimizing your side some, but my guess is that rather than being malicious intent, it's that it wasn't important to you at the time and thus you are just learning how much your actions contributed to the downfall of the marriage. Thus, I would recommend that rather than saying something along the lines of "... I was never screaming or threatening as much as I would call her lazy or slacker or some other demoralizing adjective ... " I bet it was a LOT more than a less-than-loving adjective! I recommend NAMING out loud to your own self and the world exactly what it was. Speak like it truly was. For example, if you were actually an ******* to her, then use that term. Don't be shy. 

Now I suggest this as someone who is not perfect myself by a longshot. I committed adultery in my second marriage, and my Dear Hubby and I were able to reconcile and recover from it (thank God)--but we didn't do it by minimizing and manipulation! Nope! I called my adultery by its name, and did not use a euphamism to make the turd smell nicer. Part of my job was to admit to myself and others right out loud EXACTLY what I had done and take full responsibility for it. No more minimizing--just NAME IT!

Taking personal responsibility means that my Dear Hubby had every single right on the planet to not trust me, to act like he didn't trust me (because he didn't), and to treat me like an UNTRUSTWORTHY person because--hello--I had acted in a way that not only didn't build trust, but tore it to shreds!! Another part of my job was to take the time and make the effort to REBUILD TRUST. That means I had to eat a lot of crow pie and let him determine how long it would take and what I had to do in order for him to trust me! Now, it was most definitely not instantaneous and it wasn't even close to quick. I figure if you were an ass for 10 years, expect it to take 10 years before she really, truly, full-weight trusts you again. That's just how it is. I cheated for less than a year, and I would guessitimate it took two or more years before my Dear Hubby really, truly, full-weight trusted me again, and that's only because for two years straight my words and my actions matched AND he could verify it. For two years, I actually acted in a TRUSTWORTHY way! And my Dear Hubby was the one who determined what I had to do and how long I had to do it. (By the way, after he did trust me, it's not like I was "Whew! I can stop doing that now!" Nope! I learned a new way to think and act...) It's the same for you--you were an ******* to your wife, and not she has every single right on the planet to believe you are an ass, to act like you're an ass, and to treat you like an ******* because--hello--you treated her like an *******! Part of your job is to learn why but also to realize that you need to now take the time and make the effort to rebuild RESPECT. That means you have to eat a lot of crow and let her determine what SHE NEEDS in order to feel respected. Thus for the next two or three years, she's not gonna listen to a promise you make or a word you say--she's gonna look at your actions and how you treat her and whether she can VERIFY that you respect her or not. 

Another thought from a lady's point of view--specifically a lady who was previously married to a verbally abusive man--when she says she is dealing with some ****, that **** may have little or nothing to do with you. I went to counseling for more than five years regarding my physically abusive childhood, and while I was going through it, my thoughts and efforts were not on my spouse or my marriage or even how to deal with his verbal barbs! My thoughts were on working through the trauma of being locked in the basement for a week by my own mother...or being hit from my shoulders to my knees so bad that I'd bruise...etc. Those were traumas I had to remember, relive, and then deal with the emotions...and that left little or no thought for "Gee I wonder of my verbally abusive husband feels ___." So your wife's request for space may not mean anything other than "I only have so much of my self to share, and right now I need all of that FOR ME. I can't deal with you right now too...and for all this time we have not worried about what all this was doing to me. Well...time for me to focus on what I need to focus on, which is my own self preservation." 

So if I were you, rather than thinking about 180 or not 180 or leaving or not leaving, here's my recommendation: do your own thing. Be YOU. Be a better version of you. Be the BEST version of you, all by yourself, all on your own, without her. Get mentally healthy and give her the room to do that too. Get physically healthy and give her the room to do that too. Because in the end, either she will stay or she won't--and either you'll stay or you won't. But playing games and trying to use tactics and techniques to "get your way" or make something happen when YOU want it, does not show respect. Respect would be "I want you to know that I do love you and I do miss you, but you requested space and I'm going to honor your request because I respect you and trust you." The end. Then you can determine for yourself how long you're willing to wait, frankly. Some people think "OH MY GOD, I have to wait two weeks!? No way! I can't survive two weeks without some kind of reassurance!" and they create drama; others are more calm and can say, "I can see that I was the one who did the damage for ten years...but in reality I'm not willing to wait ten years. I think it's reasonable to give it two or three years though. At the end of two years, I'll re-evaluate if we've moved forward/made progress or if we are still stuck. If we've progressed, cool, I'm willing to wait while we make progress. If not, I will call it and be done."


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## Blondilocks

As a member of "The Big Bad Man Chorus"; I will say that if the OP should return, then EB's input would be invaluable in helping this guy navigate recovery.


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