# Dating, sex, new relationship timing



## Begin again

separated 8 months now and hope to divorce in the next 4. I dipped my toe in the dating scene, but wasn't ready. Honestly, I had sex too soon. I did partly because I wanted it and partly because I think most men won't wait for it these days. When I was young I would make a man wait, but now I think if it got past date 3 without it he would walk.

Why is it that intimate friendships take time and we know it. We even find it very wrong when someone shares too much personal info right away, but sexual intimacy is almost demanded else the relationship is over before it starts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon1111

I think it's totally up to you to do whatever you're comfortable with. Not everyone will have the same perspective as you and that's OK.

Speaking as a guy, I would only want to be involved romantically with a woman where there was a clear interest. If she is making me wait too long, I would interpret that as her interest not be very high, no matter what she said.

I know that this would not be universally true. Some women just aren't like that, but unless you know someone well, it's not easy to tell whether anybody is really that way or if she's just stringing you along.

Unfortunately, making these types of judgment calls means that you'll inevitably end up taking a pass on people who might be great. But it works both ways and by keeping your boundaries, you would be doing the same thing.

The good news, I think, is that there are plenty of people in the world where your boundaries will line up.


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## Bananapeel

I think a lot of it has to do with how the sexual revolution, societal norms, and the age when people first get married have changed so dramatically. It is now expected that women desire and enjoy sex as much as men and they don't have the same stigma of engaging in casual sex that they used to. Most women also date and have sex with multiple men before they get married. These shifts brings with it a change in perception of sex as being something that people can engage in freely and for fun, even without necessitating the level of intimacy and commitment that was once a requirement. However, there is such a wide range of perceptions and experiences that even though this is becoming the norm it isn't universal, so if you are wanting intimacy and a relationship before sex occurs you can find someone with the same viewpoint.


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## NobodySpecial

Begin again said:


> separated 8 months now and hope to divorce in the next 4. I dipped my toe in the dating scene, but wasn't ready. Honestly, I had sex too soon. I did partly because I wanted it and partly because I think most men won't wait for it these days. When I was young I would make a man wait, but now I think if it got past date 3 without it he would walk.
> 
> Why is it that intimate friendships take time and we know it. We even find it very wrong when someone shares too much personal info right away, but sexual intimacy is almost demanded else the relationship is over before it starts?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think there is a "we" or a standard. Some of my best friends were best friends pretty much instantly. My fire for my husband, in all realms, was instant as was his for me.


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## jb02157

If I ever enter the dating scene again, I think I would make it plain that I certainly do NOT expect to move faster than she is comfortable with. I'm generally one who is very slow at developing a relationship, I want to make sure it's right before anything goes too far. I would rather have someone dump me for going too slow than have another relationship go too fast before I know anything about her.


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## Steve1000

Begin again said:


> separated 8 months now and hope to divorce in the next 4. I dipped my toe in the dating scene, but wasn't ready. Honestly, I had sex too soon. I did partly because I wanted it and partly because I think most men won't wait for it these days. When I was young I would make a man wait, but now I think if it got past date 3 without it he would walk.
> 
> Why is it that intimate friendships take time and we know it. We even find it very wrong when someone shares too much personal info right away, but sexual intimacy is almost demanded else the relationship is over before it starts?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A few years ago, I dated a lady who was upset with me because I didn't try to have sex with her on our third date. I didn't try because I wanted her to know that I was happy and willing to get to know her first.


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## SunCMars

Anon1111 said:


> I think it's totally up to you to do whatever you're comfortable with. Not everyone will have the same perspective as you and that's OK.
> 
> Speaking as a guy, I would only want to be involved romantically with a woman where there was a clear interest. If she is making me wait too long, I would interpret that as her interest not be very high, no matter what she said.
> 
> I know that this would not be universally true. Some women just aren't like that, but unless you know someone well, it's not easy to tell whether anybody is really that way or if she's just stringing you along.
> 
> Unfortunately, making these types of judgment calls means that you'll inevitably end up taking a pass on people who might be great. But it works both ways and by keeping your boundaries, you would be doing the same thing.
> 
> The good news, I think, is that there are plenty of people in the world where your boundaries will line up.


This

And because of this expectation, women who want to wait a little longer should simply state: "I really enjoy intimacy with a man. But I need to have feelings and chemistry with that man." I am slowly getting that feeling with you. Be patient" !

Of course, never say this if it is not the case. Keep your values, but do not lose a good man....or a good time! 

This will buy you time. It will buy you respect from your dates.

Having "somewhat" casual sex is new to you. Participate without guilt. Do not lose your values, however.

On promiscuity:
Word travels fast. Not good for a women....less harmful for a man. Not fair...but is reality. 

If you are looking for a new LTR and maybe marriage, don't fool around *too much *in your own backyard. For fun, date men in other areas........ if you are ready for adventure.

You have said that you are not ready for this...OK, good, also.


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## Begin again

For me, sex comes with emotions. I've had casual sex and it did nothing for me. It almost felt like I was faking at having a good time. So I guess as long as there are still some men out there willing to wait a bit, then I'm not destined to be an old maid. Seriously, I feel like I got the casual sex thing out of my system and want there to be real feelings there next time. I know there are people who have sex early and it works out, but you know so little about a person after just a date or two. Better to know something about his values than assume because you like the way he looks and flirts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy

These days, I find casual sexual intimacy is easy, and for both sexes it's often about scratching an itch, rather than something deeply meaningful. It's much harder to be emotionally vulnerable and open to sharing our innermost thoughts and feelings, I think, and that takes far more time to achieve.


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## jb02157

Steve1000 said:


> A few years ago, I dated a lady who was upset with me because I didn't try to have sex with her on our third date. I didn't try because I wanted her to know that I was happy and willing to get to know her first.


This would drive me nuts. You try to do the right thing, to get to know the person first...and you get slapped across the face. This is probably one of the reasons I hope I never have to enter the dating scene again, my ways are just too old fashioned for everyone.


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## Begin again

Married but Happy said:


> These days, I find casual sexual intimacy is easy, and for both sexes it's often about scratching an itch, rather than something deeply meaningful. It's much harder to be emotionally vulnerable and open to sharing our innermost thoughts and feelings, I think, and that takes far more time to achieve.


For many women, sex makes you emotionally vulnerable. It's the release of bonding hormones that happens. Not a choice in the matter when it happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy

Begin again said:


> For many women, sex makes you emotionally vulnerable. It's the release of bonding hormones that happens. Not a choice in the matter when it happens.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's often true, but of course, not always.

How you feel may not be a choice, but what you do about your feelings IS a choice. You can choose to move on when you start to have feelings, if you know - intellectually - that they can't or won't lead to anything more. And this is true for both men and women, despite some who don't seem to be able to do so.


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## Begin again

Married but Happy said:


> That's often true, but of course, not always.
> 
> How you feel may not be a choice, but what you do about your feelings IS a choice. You can choose to move on when you start to have feelings, if you know - intellectually - that they can't or won't lead to anything more. And this is true for both men and women, despite some who don't seem to be able to do so.


I think you miss the point. When the bonding hormones kick in due to sexual contact and orgasm, but you don't feel those emotions otherwise, it's a bad feeling. Empty. I've looked it up and found that its effects can be negative as well as positive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy

Begin again said:


> I think you miss the point. When the bonding hormones kick in due to sexual contact and orgasm, but you don't feel those emotions otherwise, it's a bad feeling. Empty. I've looked it up and found that its effects can be negative as well as positive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, what? If you find you are prone to negative feelings that don't synchronize with your normal feelings, then change your behavior. You learned something, now apply it. 

We are always going to experience some kind of positive or negative emotion - we can then choose how to deal with it, either by pursuing, modifying, or avoiding the experiences that produced it.


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## sokillme

Begin again said:


> separated 8 months now and hope to divorce in the next 4. I dipped my toe in the dating scene, but wasn't ready. Honestly, I had sex too soon. I did partly because I wanted it and partly because I think most men won't wait for it these days. When I was young I would make a man wait, but now I think if it got past date 3 without it he would walk.
> 
> Why is it that intimate friendships take time and we know it. We even find it very wrong when someone shares too much personal info right away, but sexual intimacy is almost demanded else the relationship is over before it starts?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not everyone feels this way. I'm a guy and I wasn't into casual sex. It meant more to me then that, it was too personal. I had lots of fun but it was always with someone who I had an emotional connection to. I am married now so those days are long gone.


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## Begin again

sokillme said:


> Not everyone feels this way. I'm a guy and I wasn't into casual sex. It meant more to me then that, it was too personal. I had lots of fun but it was always with someone who I had an emotional connection to. I am married now so those days are long gone.


Right there with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sokillme

Begin again said:


> Right there with you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So don't settle. You can be honest and just say this. If anything if the guy really likes you he will be willing to wait. It will let you know their motivation. Better to keep your priorities then get a man. 

Remember if you start a relationship by compromising your priorities you set a dangerous precedent for everything that goes after that.


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## *Deidre*

If a guy would walk before you're ready for sex, let him walk. You're not doing yourself any favors by sleeping with jerks.


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## DustyDog

Begin again said:


> separated 8 months now and hope to divorce in the next 4. I dipped my toe in the dating scene, but wasn't ready. Honestly, I had sex too soon. I did partly because I wanted it and partly because I think most men won't wait for it these days. When I was young I would make a man wait, but now I think if it got past date 3 without it he would walk.
> 
> Why is it that intimate friendships take time and we know it. We even find it very wrong when someone shares too much personal info right away, but sexual intimacy is almost demanded else the relationship is over before it starts?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know who "we" are, but...

As a man, I often feel uncomfortable with the kinds of things women share on the first date. I remember one date where she went into huge detail about not trusting the system and that's why she became her own divorce attorney and even though three levels of courts had found against her, she knew she would prevail and...wow, what a turn-off! And I really don't think 'first date' is a good time to let me know about your ex-husband's sexual fetishes, particularly since it's been 8 years since you were divorced, are you not over it yet? And then there's the woman who complained that she disliked herself because she always had sex too soon...and then tried to lead me into into it that first date.

On the other hand, we guys aren't innocent. Most of us have encountered women who we can see for weeks and it seems to be going well, and about when it seems we've bonded emotionally, mentally and spiritually, the fourth element starts and she chooses then to say "Oh, I don't do that, not with anybody." 

Sidenote: Per the Greeks there are four kinds of love, and these equate to the four Hindu auras of life, and we can also find four quarters of life contained in Judeo-Christian writing. They are:

1) Physical. The obvious one, Greek word is Agape
2) Mental. The intellectual connection you form with someone when you know each other well enough to understand how the other person thinks.
3) Emotional. When you automatically feel happier just knowing you'll see them again...and they the same.
4) Spiritual. From an ancient word meaning "your personal breath of life", this represents the love you feel for a person represented by simply feeling like a better person, more altruistic, and more capable as a pair, doing more for the world than if the two of you remained separate and altruistic. It may or may not have anything to do with mysticism or religion.

Anyway, I have certainly found the majority of women capable and reasonably willing to engage in #2,3 and 4...if there's one of them that they refuse, it'll be #1. Since I desire a complete relationship, I have an inner drive to find out quickly if #1 is on or off the table. 

Also, I've played it cool and slow a few times, then had her just quit being intereted...finding out later that some women have a pre-conceived notion that if the guy hasn't made a sexual move by date #3, then he's "just not into you".

So, what I try to do is bring up the topic early on, but without any attempt to start the activity "this date". Unfortunately, it has, too often, begun the activity right then and there.

By the way, in cultures other than Western, there is no preconceived notion that a relationship must develop all four forms of love in any particular order..a lifelong relationship can begin with a mental connection, sex, or spiritual and it has no more or less chance.


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## Wolf1974

It's all about finding people in the same mindset you are.

After divorce I was trying to feel good about myself after being cheated on. I slept with women casually which isn't really my style but the temptation and avaialbality was tempting. And yes if we weren't having sex after a date or two I did walk

Once I got sorted and started looking for a real relationship that all changed and I did sometimes turn women down who wanted sex before I was ready.

Point is figure out what you want and stick to it and you'll find the right sort.


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## Begin again

DustyDog said:


> I don't know who "we" are, but...
> 
> As a man, I often feel uncomfortable with the kinds of things women share on the first date. I remember one date where she went into huge detail about not trusting the system and that's why she became her own divorce attorney and even though three levels of courts had found against her, she knew she would prevail and...wow, what a turn-off! And I really don't think 'first date' is a good time to let me know about your ex-husband's sexual fetishes, particularly since it's been 8 years since you were divorced, are you not over it yet? And then there's the woman who complained that she disliked herself because she always had sex too soon...and then tried to lead me into into it that first date.
> 
> On the other hand, we guys aren't innocent. Most of us have encountered women who we can see for weeks and it seems to be going well, and about when it seems we've bonded emotionally, mentally and spiritually, the fourth element starts and she chooses then to say "Oh, I don't do that, not with anybody."
> 
> Sidenote: Per the Greeks there are four kinds of love, and these equate to the four Hindu auras of life, and we can also find four quarters of life contained in Judeo-Christian writing. They are:
> 
> 1) Physical. The obvious one, Greek word is Agape
> 2) Mental. The intellectual connection you form with someone when you know each other well enough to understand how the other person thinks.
> 3) Emotional. When you automatically feel happier just knowing you'll see them again...and they the same.
> 4) Spiritual. From an ancient word meaning "your personal breath of life", this represents the love you feel for a person represented by simply feeling like a better person, more altruistic, and more capable as a pair, doing more for the world than if the two of you remained separate and altruistic. It may or may not have anything to do with mysticism or religion.
> 
> Anyway, I have certainly found the majority of women capable and reasonably willing to engage in #2,3 and 4...if there's one of them that they refuse, it'll be #1. Since I desire a complete relationship, I have an inner drive to find out quickly if #1 is on or off the table.
> 
> Also, I've played it cool and slow a few times, then had her just quit being intereted...finding out later that some women have a pre-conceived notion that if the guy hasn't made a sexual move by date #3, then he's "just not into you".
> 
> So, what I try to do is bring up the topic early on, but without any attempt to start the activity "this date". Unfortunately, it has, too often, begun the activity right then and there.
> 
> By the way, in cultures other than Western, there is no preconceived notion that a relationship must develop all four forms of love in any particular order..a lifelong relationship can begin with a mental connection, sex, or spiritual and it has no more or less chance.


All very interesting, although you may want to google "agape love." To quote The Princess Bride, "You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor

As a man about to enter the dating pool, the whole dating scene is a mystery to me. We're not 19 yrs old anymore, and things have changed a lot, too. For me, sex has always involved an emotional connection. While I have nothing against the concept of a casual encounter, to me that is in a different realm than an ongoing relationship.

So if a woman is interested in a casual hookup or a FWB arrangement, I'm not morally opposed.  But it would only be scratching an itch as someone else posted earlier.

If I were dating someone it seems to me that the sex is a very personal thing to get involved in. It takes a lot of trust. I think I want to feel there is some good chemistry and we're likely to have a serious relationship continue for a while. If we're just casually friendly so far after only a couple of dates, we can't know if we're likely to have a happy relationship that's going to last 6 months or more. Sex then seems like a complication at date #3. Am I happy just because she's good in bed? Is she putting out just to keep me from walking?

I'll let you know my perspective after I do start dating sometime after the divorce goes through.


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## Begin again

Seems there are enough men out there who would respect my decision. I always felt it was the right and smart thing to do when I was young. Guess I need to get back to the morals I had when I was younger... Better to have him walk than do the walk of shame!  

And all kidding aside, I really do want a real relationship. If he can't wait a bit, then we aren't on the same page. Thanks, guys!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingWife

Anon1111 said:


> Speaking as a guy, I would only want to be involved romantically with a woman where there was a clear interest. If she is making me wait too long, I would interpret that as her interest not be very high, no matter what she said.


Speaking as a guy, would you be ready/willing to be exclusive as soon as you're ready to have sex with someone assuming there is a clear interest? Should I ever end up in the dating world again, my concern with sex after just 3 dates is that it is too soon to know someone well enough to commit to them, but I would not want to be sleeping around or sleeping with a guy who is sleeping around.


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## Thor

Exclusivity is another issue which was brought up in a different thread. Back in the old days there was generally an implied exclusivity once you started having sex within a dating relationship. ONS and FWB excluded. But nowadays it seems that it is considered normal to have more than one sexual partner going on even within dating relationships, meaning a person is dating and having sex with more than one person at a time. And it seems to be expected that both people in the relationship can be doing that unless there has been a very specific agreement to exclusivity.

Times have changed! I've read that most men over about 45 or 50 have no desire to get married again, though they do desire relationships with women. I can see how this can then lead to the idea that it is fine for a girlfriend to also have other men, because the man doesn't ever want life long exclusivity with her. Thus he feels free to play the field and doesn't care if she does too.

Whether women are generally looking for a new marriage idk. I've seen how younger divorced women seem to test drive everything they can find at first after their divorce.

It's a brave new world out there which after 34 years of marriage doesn't make sense to me.


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## Anon1111

WorkingWife said:


> Speaking as a guy, would you be ready/willing to be exclusive as soon as you're ready to have sex with someone assuming there is a clear interest? Should I ever end up in the dating world again, my concern with sex after just 3 dates is that it is too soon to know someone well enough to commit to them, but I would not want to be sleeping around or sleeping with a guy who is sleeping around.


I would not be ready to be exclusive with anybody at that point. It would not be a personal judgment regarding the woman, I just would not be ready at that point.

I would understand if a woman wanted exclusivity and would not blame her if she decided to take a pass on me for that.


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## DustyDog

Anon1111 said:


> I would not be ready to be exclusive with anybody at that point. It would not be a personal judgment regarding the woman, I just would not be ready at that point.
> 
> I would understand if a woman wanted exclusivity and would not blame her if she decided to take a pass on me for that.


In my dating days, while there was never a stated commitment...once the physical intimacy began, I could not see myself trying to be "there" enough to be connected to two women at the same time. Relationships require emotional energy, and perhaps I simply didn't have enough to spread around.

However, at no point would I have felt that once the physical part began, that this meant, in any way, that we were committed to each other, and were expecting to attempt to make this last forever. In my younger years, there was no doubt that we were all trying to figure out what we wanted, and as with the rest of life, the best learning is experiential.


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## DustyDog

Thor said:


> As a man about to enter the dating pool, the whole dating scene is a mystery to me. We're not 19 yrs old anymore, and things have changed a lot, too.


Don't I know it!!!

From the start of my adult sex life through college, everybody I dated was green, just like me, and we made our way very, very carefully. Sex on the third date? More like the third month! And...in my college days when money was scarce, somehow I just knew that getting a girl pregnant could create irreversible changes in my ability to select my future...so, I held a strict boundary of "no intercourse". In retrospect, that helped me learn about women's bodies more, since it made us figure out different ways to please each other. I didn't have dozens of GFs in college, just a few, but those few were enough to show me that every woman is different and to appreciate each person for their own unique values, sensitivities, and preferences, whether sexual or otherwise.

Right after college, it was a bit different...the tentative early stages happened a bit more quickly, but intercourse was an absolute expectation. I dated a few single moms, and they were very upfront about "having needs". Those who'd never been married/had kids were not quite so pushy about it, but made it evident that there were physical expecations and don't take too long.

I hooked up with an LTR from age 25 to 33, then split from her. Now it was TOTALLY different. Women had apparently tired of men not asking early enough and I was actually seduced by a few of my dates without me initiating a darned thing. It was the 1990s, and maybe it was just a meme at the time, but women all seemed to want to demonstrate their oral prowess...very early.



Thor said:


> If I were dating someone it seems to me that the sex is a very personal thing to get involved in. It takes a lot of trust.


Not for everybody. I've had one "sex on the first date" experience...don't want to do that again. Why was she willing, and in fact, led the activity? She told me once "I don't like sex, but I'm good at it, so it's what I can offer." In other words, she didn't value herself as anything other than a supplier of sex, and that was what she offered...immediately. I am glad I had the experience, because it taught me I didn't want it again.

I tend to implicitly trust everybody...I view life as 99% good, so good that I don't really protect myself against anything except things that would be permanent...to link to this thread, no unprotected sex, ever.

But I'm not inclined to begin the physical part of the relationship until I understand how it fits in the woman's view of relationships. 



Thor said:


> I think I want to feel there is some good chemistry and we're likely to have a serious relationship continue for a while. If we're just casually friendly so far after only a couple of dates, we can't know if we're likely to have a happy relationship that's going to last 6 months or more. Sex then seems like a complication at date #3. Am I happy just because she's good in bed? Is she putting out just to keep me from walking?


I don't have a problem with FWB situations, as long as we're both clear that's what it is. Because - if it's up-front that it's FWB, then there's nothing keeping either of you from walking...either of you will walk if you find someone with potential for LTR...and you have up-front agreed to this. Can it happen? Yes. Do I think most people are able to handle it well? No. Can I? I doubt it. I can, however, mentally grasp the concept.



Thor said:


> I'll let you know my perspective after I do start dating sometime after the divorce goes through.


As I stare at a likely D, I'm just trying to remain open-minded...whatever it is, it is.


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## hope4family

I find humor in this. Currently in a relationship I am ok with. Been dating 5 months. No sex. Am I ready for sex? Well physically yeah anytime anyplace. She isn't ready, and really if she isn't I really ain't. When that becomes a problem we will let each other know and make the next step or go our separate ways. 

My point is, there are good men, and women out there who will work with the pace because they have a true interest in wanting to get to know you.


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## Buddy400

SunCMars said:


> This
> 
> And because of this expectation, women who want to wait a little longer should simply state: "I really enjoy intimacy with a man. But I need to have feelings and chemistry with that man." I am slowly getting that feeling with you. Be patient" !
> 
> Of course, never say this if it is not the case. Keep your values, but do not lose a good man....or a good time!
> 
> This will buy you time. It will buy you respect from your dates.
> 
> Having "somewhat" casual sex is new to you. Participate without guilt. Do not lose your values, however.
> 
> On promiscuity:
> Word travels fast. Not good for a women....less harmful for a man. Not fair...but is reality.
> 
> If you are looking for a new LTR and maybe marriage, don't fool around *too much *in your own backyard. For fun, date men in other areas........ if you are ready for adventure.
> 
> You have said that you are not ready for this...OK, good, also.


Simply saying "I love sex and I'm getting the feeling that I'd love to have sex with you, but I need a little more time to feel more comfortable about our relationship" ought to buy a woman at least a few more dates.


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## Navy4

The first sex between man and woman should happen when they both feel that time has come. It's not about 2,3 or 10 dates. If you don't feel doing it say him about it directly. Don't abide your principles only to satisfy a man.


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## EleGirl

This is a thread from 2014-2016. The OP has not been online since then.

Zombie thread. It's cosed.


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