# Divorcing due to infidelity.. the kids?



## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Recently I've been spending a lot of time thinking about how to broach the subject of the infidelity-caused divorce to our little one.. a 5-year-old. Articles I've found so far are very little help, and I'm not even sure where we might go for proper advice. My concerns:

- Just saying 'Mommy and Daddy are just disagreeing too much and have to split up' sends a message at a young age to give up on relationships when things get hard.
- Saying nothing or very little leaves it wide open to have him blame himself.
- Saying something like 'Mommy did something very bad to Daddy, and we can't be together anymore' is kind of vague enough, and perhaps avoids the issue of giving the idea that you should split up over little things, but apparently also could poison their relationship. Plus, that'd be a pretty hard sell for us to present a united front on.

Anyone have any guidance as to expert ways to handle this matter? Experts who might be consulted? The thought that my W's inconsiderate actions could harm the trust and relationships of our child later is more difficult than finding out myself.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Mommy decided she loved somebody else more than she loves me? 

It made Daddy really sad at first to learn that, but the important thing is we both love YOU very much and will always try our best to be great parents.

ETA: Make sure he knows it's not possible for parents to decide they don't love their kids anymore like they can do with spouses.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Mommy decided she loved somebody else more than she loves me?


Yeah, hard part is here though, mommy decided she needed the self-esteem boost of screwing a whole bunch of other men, which is a turn of events I don't think I can put into 5-year-old terms...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

From another thread...



CTPlay said:


> Thanks guys. I talked with my IC and she said basically the same things. What my IC did say was that not to mention the affair because my STBX doesn't want to talk about it to my oldest. Her rationale is that unless both parents want to admit it (fat chance by the way) that means one parent is going against the other and it will cause the kids to be in the middle.
> 
> I agreed with that. I said what can we say to my oldest if he asks why? She said that mom and dad do not care for each other like before. But stress that it is not my oldest fault under any circumstances. This way my oldest won't realize that it was one parent who broke the marriage, but rather 2 people who mutually decided to leave. Sometimes people just separate, but mom and dad will always be with you (my son).





GusPolinski said:


> What a load of tripe.
> 
> Look, you don't have to be sh*tty about it. Just tell the truth in a very matter-of-fact type way...
> 
> ...


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

truster said:


> Recently I've been spending a lot of time thinking about how to broach the subject of the infidelity-caused divorce to our little one.. a 5-year-old. Articles I've found so far are very little help, and I'm not even sure where we might go for proper advice. My concerns:
> 
> - Just saying 'Mommy and Daddy are just disagreeing too much and have to split up' sends a message at a young age to give up on relationships when things get hard.
> - Saying nothing or very little leaves it wide open to have him blame himself.
> ...


From Dr. Harley at MB:



MelodyLane said:


> SEJ3 said:
> 
> 
> > What do I tell them? That mommy had a friend?
> ...


ETA: The last 2 links are broken. Sorry about that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

truster said:


> Yeah, hard part is here though, mommy decided she needed the self-esteem boost of screwing a whole bunch of other men, which is a turn of events I don't think I can put into 5-year-old terms...


Then change it to "Mommy does not love me anymore. So she does not want to live with me anymore."


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

truster said:


> Yeah, hard part is here though, mommy decided she needed the self-esteem boost of screwing a whole bunch of other men, which is a turn of events I don't think I can put into 5-year-old terms...


How about mommy decided she loved herself more then she loved daddy but reinforceing that mommy and daddy will always love you like god loves all his children

Very similar to what my dad told me 

We talked about later when I was older and my dad told me mom just got up one morning and decided she did not love him anymore and that sh*t happens we have no control over and what makes us great is how we deal with the things we do have control over

Have quick questions has your 5yo been to school? because I bet he or she has friends that has travel this road before 

as a child of devorce never once did I see my parents badmouth each other they were a coparent team no wiggle room for me to bs something

The end result of that and one example of that is this last year on mothers day was was my wife and I our two kids my mom and step dad my dad and stepmom 

I cooked the moms all steak and everyone got along had and had wonderful time 

When I was growing up I never did understand why other kids devorced parents were never civil to each other for their kids

What I am trying to say is I appreciate my mom and dad and I really think my dad did a lot of heavy lifting early on to extend an olive branch and that is why my dad is my hero still to this day


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Truster,

Since you're wondering how to tell your kid about the divorce, I'm assuming that you've told your wife?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I would encourage the truth but I would only divulge minimum information and then stress to your child that any questions they may have should be asked at any time. Tell them that whenever they have a doubt or question to ask right away and that way you can guide the thought process as the child processes this information. A five year old cannot properly assimilate this level of information so be sure that you encourage questions so as to not leave it up to their 5yo mentality to assign answers, they would most certainly answer incorrectly perhaps negatively affecting them later in life. Allow them to process this slowly and in their own way and as they ask, you answer. Do not flood them with information but rather let them inquire as they feel motivated to do so.

They will digest this for years to come therefore you must be there to guide their mind as it tries to rationalize this situation. By answering their questions honestly and, as they mature, more frankly, you can, at least to some extent, guide them to an understanding they could never reach on their own.

I deeply regret your wife's decision to inflict this onto your 5yo child, I find it deeply troubling. Women and men may be physically capable of parenthood but sadly many are sorely lacking in the emotional and sacrificial qualities required to be a good mother/father. Good fortune to you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Maybe "Mom" should have given a little more thought about her family, more especially the 5 year old, before she started messing around with that "strange joystick" that she felt so entitled to play with!

Her priorities obviously lie with joysticks! Or do the joysticks lie with her?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

you need to go to divorce counseling and inevitably co-parenting counseling.



strange your 1st thread disappeared, did you have it removed?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

eastsouth2000 said:


> you need to go to divorce counseling and inevitably co-parenting counseling.
> 
> 
> 
> strange your 1st thread disappeared, did you have it removed?


It's been moved to the Private Members' Section forum.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I don't see anything wrong with your third option truster.

If she doesn't like it, she should have learned to keep her legs shut.

The truth almost always eventually comes out one day anyway.....and the more she tries to lie about and hide what she did to her BH and her kid's life....the more he will despise her when he finally does hear about what caused all the pain and drama in his family as a little boy.

And that insight I give you from personal experience.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

"I'm sorry honey but mommy is a lizard."

Seriously though. Letting your small child know that mommy wanted to have boyfriends as well as a husband is age appropriate.

Even small children can understand that having more than one boyfriend or a boyfriend and a husband is selfish and wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I personally would not recommend things like "Mommy doesn't love me anymore" or "Mommy decided she loved someone else" because essentially you are telling the child what someone else thinks/feels and you're not in their head. 

Instead, I suggest telling the truth and keeping it on YOU and what YOU believe and what YOU think/feel: 

"We are divorcing because we have a difference of beliefs that can not be fixed. I believe Mommies and Daddies should only love each other and not have boyfriends and girlfriends. Now, people sometimes do the wrong thing, but to fix the wrong thing, I believe you would stop doing it and start doing the right thing. I can't tell you what Mommy believes but she does have a boyfriend and doesn't want to stop having a boyfriend, so I'm really sad because that breaks our marriage."


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

"Mommy was abducted by aliens. The creature who calls herself your mommy is really an extraterrestrial mollusk in the guise of a human."


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

To answer questions:

- Yes, we had the conversation and it's over. She's surprisingly civil so far but obviously I don't feel there's any going back. Hoping for a speedy resolution.
- Will likely try to talk to a co-parenting or child counselor to come up with a common approach, as long as she stays civil. Definitely leaning towards the suggestions that simply mention that mommy decided she loved herself more, if a counselor doesn't think that'll scare him into thinking mommy will love herself more than him. That, or the alien story of course 



dash74 said:


> How about mommy decided she loved herself more then she loved daddy but reinforceing that mommy and daddy will always love you like god loves all his children
> 
> Very similar to what my dad told me
> 
> ...


Thanks, this story really helped quite a bit. I think pulling something like this is achievable, and it's reassuring to think that we can keep his view of relationships undamaged through this.

Thanks everyone, again.. the support has been a lifesaver. I don't think it could have gone this well so far without your advice, and certain professionals involved even remarked they weren't used to dealing with someone so prepared!


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

This is interesting. My son's counselor (he just turned 15) advised to tell as little as possible. Maybe because he was vulnerable and just coming out of a very deep depression (not related to our separation or any specific event, it just happened) and he was slipping back into it with this new change. My other son is 16.

We tried to be vague, but both boys figured it out. In fact, my youngest has made comments about money spent on hookers. He inferred that all on his own. So I know at this age they are not dumb and you can't really hide things. 

It is hard because you don't want them to think you give up on people just because times are hard, yet you want to teach them healthy boundaries. I also didn't want to be the family the kept secrets.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

where_are_we said:


> This is interesting. My son's counselor (he just turned 15) advised to tell as little as possible. Maybe because he was vulnerable and just coming out of a very deep depression (not related to our separation or any specific event, it just happened) and he was slipping back into it with this new change. My other son is 16.
> 
> We tried to be vague, but both boys figured it out. In fact, my youngest has made comments about money spent on hookers. He inferred that all on his own. So I know at this age they are not dumb and you can't really hide things.
> 
> It is hard because you don't want them to think you give up on people just because times are hard, yet you want to teach them healthy boundaries. I also didn't want to be the family the kept secrets.


15 and 16?

Yeah... at their age, they're more likely to resent you for not telling them the truth. You don't have to be overly venomous about it, or go into extraneous detail, but what you tell them should be the truth.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> It's been moved to the Private Members' Section forum.


Loose lips sink ships.0


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

Best be civil about it. Since this is all civil No alimony and child support I hope. Clean break since she cheated ask her there should be no alimony.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

If your counselor tells you not to divulge infidelity to your child, fire the counselor. 
Kids are far more intuitive and observant than most adults like to admit. Your child already knows something is going on, and until he gets the truth he will start thinking and believing it is all about him/her. That's not a knock on your kid, its just how the young mind works. The entire world is about them, which is how its supposed to be and how children have survived for eons. The worst decision I ever made when my ex and I broke up was thinking that our youngest (then 9) didn't have to know the details. The best thing I ever did was disclose the truth. Keep reassuring them, every single day.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

eastsouth2000 said:


> Best be civil about it. Since this is all civil No alimony and child support I hope. Clean break since she cheated ask her there should be no alimony.


We shall see. Seems very civil at the moment currently, just after the big conversation, but obviously if she wasn't capable of putting on a civil face and then pulling rash actions in the background we wouldn't be here. I seriously doubt there will be alimony, but child support is likely unavoidable (and not as big a point of contention, as long as I can see it being put towards the child).


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

We just told the kids that it was a mommy and daddy problem that had nothing to do with them and that we loved them more than anything in the world. When they asked for an explanation we told them that we weren't happy together anymore and that not being married would allow us to be happy and get along much better. Then we asked them if they wanted us to be happy and they said yes. 

I don't think it is beneficial to give details to kids that age. At 5, your job is to protect them and give them the best childhood you can. If you take a parenting class (most states require that as part of the divorce) they focus on how to make decisions that are in the kid's best interest. Disclosing an affair to a kid that is at an age where they don't comprehend what sex is, seems bizarre to me. 

The other thing we did is told them that mom will be moving out shortly and they would need money for new toys so they had enough toys at both places. We then gave each of them plenty of cash to go shopping and started asking about what toys they've wanted but haven't gotten yet. Kids are self centered and that helped reframe the discussion from a sad one to a positive one in their eyes. I can still tell my kids aren't thrilled with the situation but they feel like they are loved and in a stable environment at both places and aren't acting out (at least not yet).


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Forgot to mention. We talked with a marriage counselor about how to broach the subject with kids and how to co-parent after divorce. You might want to go that route.

As far as child support goes, that is a requirement based on state law. Can't get around it or even really negotiate the amount. Just gotta pay it based on the state formula.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

truster said:


> We shall see. Seems very civil at the moment currently, just after the big conversation, but obviously if she wasn't capable of putting on a civil face and then pulling rash actions in the background we wouldn't be here. I seriously doubt there will be alimony, but child support is likely unavoidable (and not as big a point of contention, as long as I can see it being put towards the child).


ok so no alimony. that's great!

why is child support unavoidable? if you go 50/50. judges these days opt for 50/50 unless you want her to have the kids.

at least what you can get is pretty much a clean break here.

believe the kids will grow-up fine! studies have shown little to no effect of divorce on kids when it comes to successful careers in their future.

believe your not alone in this experience thousands of kids across the country have parents going through divorce.

time to focus on yourself. your happiness will translate to your children's happiness.

the sooner your happy with another woman the sooner the wife will realize what she is missing the sooner your getting back at her.

go out there, have some fun you are free.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

eastsouth2000 said:


> why is child support unavoidable? if you go 50/50. judges these days opt for 50/50 unless you want her to have the kids.


That's not how it works. If one parent makes more than the other, there can still be child support in 50/50 custody.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

truster said:


> Recently I've been spending a lot of time thinking about how to broach the subject of the infidelity-caused divorce to our little one.. a 5-year-old. Articles I've found so far are very little help, and I'm not even sure where we might go for proper advice. My concerns:
> 
> - Just saying 'Mommy and Daddy are just disagreeing too much and have to split up' sends a message at a young age to give up on relationships when things get hard.
> - Saying nothing or very little leaves it wide open to have him blame himself.
> ...


 A five year old doesn't need to here the gory details about an affair. He wouldn't understand and why should he have someones load of dirty laundry hung around his neck.

Just tell him that you and mom need to be apart because of grown up things and leave it at that. Just make sure you let them know that they are not the cause and both mom and dad love them. 

Let the kid be a kid. If not all your doing is putting a heavy load on the kids back and he doesn't need that.

This issue is between you and her, nothing more.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

6301 said:


> A five year old doesn't need to here the gory details about an affair. He wouldn't understand and why should he have someones load of dirty laundry hung around his neck.
> 
> Just tell him that you and mom need to be apart because of grown up things and leave it at that. Just make sure you let them know that they are not the cause and both mom and dad love them.
> 
> ...


It certainly wouldn't be a detailed explanation, should we go that route.. more something vague like 'Mommy was very bad to daddy and now... something'. Idunno. I think the advice to consult separation/co-parenting counselors will be the route I use to work out the details. Just want to make sure that it's not so vague he blames himself, doesn't give the impression that relationships are just things you give up on when you disagree, but also not scar the poor kid.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

At 5 years of age you don't need to say much. And, as you said, definitely reassure him that it has NOTHING to do w/ him and that the both of you love him very much and always will.

When he gets older, though, he WILL have questions, and he'll want answers to them.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

truster said:


> It certainly wouldn't be a detailed explanation, should we go that route.. more something vague like 'Mommy was very bad to daddy and now... something'. Idunno. I think the advice to consult separation/co-parenting counselors will be the route I use to work out the details. Just want to make sure that it's not so vague he blames himself, doesn't give the impression that relationships are just things you give up on when you disagree, but also not scar the poor kid.


I would be very careful about telling the child that "mommy did something very bad to daddy." A child's mind is not going to come up with anything that an adult would think of. They have a limited experience. I think what Affaircare posted is perfect. It doesn't hurt the child, but gives enough information to be able to process what is happening. 



Affaircare said:


> I personally would not recommend things like "Mommy doesn't love me anymore" or "Mommy decided she loved someone else" because essentially you are telling the child what someone else thinks/feels and you're not in their head.
> 
> Instead, I suggest telling the truth and keeping it on YOU and what YOU believe and what YOU think/feel:
> 
> "We are divorcing because we have a difference of beliefs that can not be fixed. I believe Mommies and Daddies should only love each other and not have boyfriends and girlfriends. Now, people sometimes do the wrong thing, but to fix the wrong thing, I believe you would stop doing it and start doing the right thing. I can't tell you what Mommy believes but she does have a boyfriend and doesn't want to stop having a boyfriend, so I'm really sad because that breaks our marriage."


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Truster

Just be level headed when dealing with your WW.

If she even starts pulling nonsense stop it right there and tell her you will not deal with any nonsense.

Remind her your goal is to have an amicable divorce and good coparenting relationship.

Tell her that how she behaves now and going forward will contribute to a smooth and fair divorce.

And if you need to remind her do so. "If you continue to throw AM or AFF affairs in my face I will expose you to every family member and friend to the real reason I am divorcing you."

Hold it over her head to be cooperative and fair.

HM


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

truster said:


> It certainly wouldn't be a detailed explanation, should we go that route.. more something vague like 'Mommy was very bad to daddy and now... something'. Idunno. I think the advice to consult separation/co-parenting counselors will be the route I use to work out the details. Just want to make sure that it's not so vague he blames himself, doesn't give the impression that relationships are just things you give up on when you disagree, but also not scar the poor kid.


 You still don't get it do you? That's his mother. She did you wrong granted but the kid doesn't need to know that "Mommy was very bad to Daddy" All you'll do is fill this kids head with questions that he doesn't need to know at five years old. 

You want to unload and spill the beans on her then tell an adult who will listen but leave the kid out of it. I'm telling you this from experience. My wife cheated and the last thing I wanted was my kid in the middle of something ugly. Your the parent and your job is to protect your kid not hurt him. Wise up.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

6301 said:


> You still don't get it do you? That's his mother. She did you wrong granted but the kid doesn't need to know that "Mommy was very bad to Daddy" All you'll do is fill this kids head with questions that he doesn't need to know at five years old.
> 
> You want to unload and spill the beans on her then tell an adult who will listen but leave the kid out of it. I'm telling you this from experience. My wife cheated and the last thing I wanted was my kid in the middle of something ugly. Your the parent and your job is to protect your kid not hurt him. Wise up.


While I agree with this to a point, I do think the children need to have some idea of what is going on. They form their world view and opinions based on how they see things happen and what the outcome is. As another poster said, children need truth. They don't need truth that is over their heads, but in order to form their values, they need the truth about what is happening to them as much as they are able to understand and process. No they don't need to hear that mommy did something terrible to daddy, but they do need some kind of rational explanation for what is going on. Telling the child that mom and dad just decided to call it quits because they fell out of love or some other such nonsense isn't really true. It is very complicated how children develop their view of the world and it is important that it is based on truth at their level of understanding.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> While I agree with this to a point, I do think the children need to have some idea of what is going on. They form their world view and opinions based on how they see things happen and what the outcome is. As another poster said, children need truth. They don't need truth that is over their heads, but in order to form their values, they need the truth about what is happening to them as much as they are able to understand and process. No they don't need to hear that mommy did something terrible to daddy, but they do need some kind of rational explanation for what is going on. Telling the child that mom and dad just decided to call it quits because they fell out of love or some other such nonsense isn't really true. It is very complicated how children develop their view of the world and it is important that it is based on truth at their level of understanding.


This is what I'm thinking, but as others have mentioned, it's a tight-rope. Even "Mommy did something bad to Daddy" has its drawbacks, and it may just have to be a boilerplate "we disagree" statement and deal with details later as he ages and they're asked. We're going to consult with a child counselor and see if we can't get the best idea to go with.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

truster said:


> This is what I'm thinking, but as others have mentioned, it's a tight-rope. Even "Mommy did something bad to Daddy" has its drawbacks, and it may just have to be a boilerplate "we disagree" statement and deal with details later as he ages and they're asked. We're going to consult with a child counselor and see if we can't get the best idea to go with.


Right. That's why AffairCare's example makes sense. It explains clearly what happened without placing a judgement on what your wife did. It does not tell your child that you hate Mommy or that Mommy is a terrible person. It tells the child that there was a serious deal breaker and exactly what it was without going into graphic detail. It is in words a little child can understand, but it won't put a burden on him that he cannot bear. It answers questions so his immature mind doesn't try to fill in the blanks with nonsense and confusion.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Agreed AffairCare

Your thpughts if the child says what if the child asks what is she wants to fix it?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

My kids were 5 and 7 when I divorced... Maybe I sheltered them too much but sorry, I had no intention of telling my kids their mom was a cheating POS. 

All I said was, "Mom did something that hurt Dad very much and I can't forgive her for it. Mom and Dad can't get along anymore and we fight too much. But we love both still love you VERY much and its better if we live apart so we don't fight anymore. You will always be our children and we will still see you all the time and we will never stop loving you ever."

The kids will eventually ask mature questions and when they're older, I'll be more than happy to explain what a wh0re their mom is but it's not worth ruining their childhood over. I don't see how that could possibly have a positive impact on a 5 yo. Unfortunately, they still think the world of her.


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