# Confused and Conflicted



## RP49D22

After 21yrs of marriage I caught my wife having an affair with a 27 year old man child (she was 43 at the time) and when I confronted her, it was as if someone put a lit match to gasoline. The rhetoric, threats, and lies on her part escalated very quickly and before I knew it, I moved out (no idea why as I look back - she should have) met with an attorney, and we were divorcing (at her request) all within about 45 days. I Also ended up with an STD as she had been sleeping with the man child for at least 4 months prior.

I recollect asking her to go to counseling.....she attended four individual sessions and quit. I remember asking her repeatedly at the time if this is what she wanted or if she wanted to try to repair things. She's very manipulative and blamed the affair on me.

Two years later I am in a relationship with a wonderful women who loves me. The ex is still with the man child. She recently ended up with a DUI for taking sleeping pills and drinking wine. She has no relationship with our 19yr old son. I recently spoke to her and she claims she is more content and happy than when we were married. Says she doesn't have to answer to anyone.

I feel conflicted (even guilty at times) because it seems that things moved so fast and she didn't have a chance to swallow her pride and reconsider. I sent countless emails and texts even after moving out. These attempts were all rebuffed on the one hand, though on the other hand when I got into a relationship she would do things that seemed as if she wanted me back. I expected to grow old with this women and enjoy our 3 children and future grandchildren. Sometimes I feel as if I wasn't in a relationship we could put the family back together. 

I am posting here because I don't have family or friends that I can share my feelings with and I'm often confused, conflicted, and guilt ridden. I feel as if I could have prevented this.


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## MyTurn

RP,
I feel for you.
whatever you did or didn't do would never change the outcome.

<<I recently spoke to her and she claims she is more content and happy than when we were married. Says she doesn't have to answer to anyone.>>

She feels no remorse and takes no responsibility for the A.
It takes one spouse to divorce and two to R.
Don't be confused,you did the best you could .


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## RP49D22

Thank you, I've tried repeatedly and you're right.....she didn't and doesn't take responsibility for her actions. She even felt that having to do 48 hours of jail time for her DUI was unjust. Never mind that she was totally impaired and smashed into two vehicles on the interstate.


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## TexDad034

Talk about a midlife crisis. Hang in there bud. The 180 works wonders.


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## LongWalk

What does the OM want with his much older partner?


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## terrence4159

first sorry you are here, second dont talk to her unless it is about your son period. if she calls and says hey im on fire only you can save me laugh and hang up.


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## RP49D22

terrence4159 said:


> first sorry you are here, second dont talk to her unless it is about your son period. if she calls and says hey im on fire only you can save me laugh and hang up.


I am a lot better at the "no contact" than I was even 6-8 months ago, so I think time helps. As I said in my post, periodically I fall into this place where I think I can't get over her and "if only I would have done this or wouldn't have done that"......it makes it hard to move on mentally. 

She's never once said would you ever consider getting back together, so it's mostly me, I think, who's stuck in this "if only" mentality. I think I mostly miss the family unit and the structure of an intact family.


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## RP49D22

LongWalk said:


> What does the OM want with his much older partner?


I have no idea. It's not as though he brings much to the table, financially and she's no cougar with a bundle of cash. No clue. I think she was having her cake and eat it to, until she got caught and is cohabitation with him now out of convenience.


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## TexDad034

I know the same feeling RD. even though I was the one who filed it wasn't because I wanted to. We have to trust that life goes on. I'm a family man at heart and always will be. It doesn't help to think of what ifs though. Keep your head high. Be bigger and better.


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## RP49D22

TexDad034 said:


> I know the same feeling RD. even though I was the one who filed it wasn't because I wanted to. We have to trust that life goes on. I'm a family man at heart and always will be. It doesn't help to think of what ifs though. Keep your head high. Be bigger and better.


Yes, I'm told the best revenge is living well. I'm working on it one day at a time. When does the mental conflict stop though?


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## manticore

puff, perfect receipe for disaster.

OM will get tired evetually and your wife will see that she had no patience to deal the rants of a immature Young adult whose idea of resposability probably is making his monthly payments for his car.

but well once that dopamine runs out of their system she will notice how sad her life had become.

Even if I am sure this will happen, by no means you should expect it to happen with the idea of catching her when she falls from her fantasy, move on man, the person you loved is dead so don't wait for her, your resposability is with your kids and your welfare, and of course that can not include a XWW who gave you a STD and just put attention to you when she was kicket out by her OM.


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## TexDad034

RP49D22 said:


> Yes, I'm told the best revenge is living well. I'm working on it one day at a time. When does the mental conflict stop though?


who knows man.


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## RP49D22

Thought I might post an update and some info in hopes that someone replies......that I can perhaps make sense or figure things out. 

Picked up my son on Xmas day and headed north to see family, friends, and girlfriend. Haven't had any communication from my ex-wife until the night before we're to head back....inquiring as to our safety on the return drive. Very unusual as she rarely gives a dam, much less inquires about my safety even when I have our son. Furthermore, wants to have lunch when I return t talk about positive changes for all 3 kids. Just doesn't make sense and way out of character. 

I drop my son off last night at her house, while her boyfriend is in the other room working (door closed) and basically leave him in the vestibule keeping it short and sweet. Afterward she sends me a text to the effect that more or less I should have stayed longer to converse. This is of course on the heels of Xmas where I had to attend a wedding with my girlfriend and my eldest daughter showed a pic of me and GF to the ex. 

She just seems like she wants to come out and talk about reconciliation and either doesn't know how or doesn't know what to say. It's hard for me to come out and directly ask her intentions as she's just used my inquires to hurt my girlfriend in the past by forwarding texts (a yr ago that happened) and trying to record me (also a year ago).

What do I do? Do I ask if she's had second thoughts and wants to reconcile? She has a boyfriend and I a girlfriend....so now there are other people involved who could be hurt. 

What do I do? Sometimes I want to gas up the car, leave and get away from everything and everyone and never come back.

I don't want to hurt anyone, but I don't want to hurt anymore. I miss my family and I didn't create this mess.


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## Thor

You can never have your previous family back.


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## RP49D22

Ironically in a brief conversation with my ex-wife, she said the exact same thing.....exactly as you stated it. 

I assume you say this because even if one was able to reconcile, the divorce changes the entire dynamic and all parties concerned. Obviously couples can reconcile, but things are different....like starting anew. 

I realize also that it takes two people to reconcile. Doesn't it make sense that of she truly wanted to reconcile that she would come right out with a statement such as that, rather than besting around the bush?


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## Thor

I tried to start a new marriage with my wife 2.5 yrs ago. I suspected an affair but didn't have hard proof. We had lots of issues. Anyhow after a couple of tough discussions we agreed to start over. Then we had several conversations, all started by me btw, about what marriage means, what is important within a relationship, and what the boundaries are.

My wife agreed with what I said, and she showed what the shrinks call "Level 1" changes. Those are simple behavioral changes but without deep real changes to the person's belief system. For example, a wife might learn to say "How was your day?" when the husband comes home. Level 1. But if the wife doesn't have a genuine interest in the answer it never gets past being a meaningless action.

So in reality the relationship remains the old one. It has a new coat of wax on it, but the wax dulls quickly.

Until your x demonstrates an understanding of what is needed to even attempt an R, she will _at best_ only be capable of Level 1 changes. I don't think your x is even at that point yet, to be honest.

My interpretation of what you've written is that your x wants is to disrupt you. You have described her as interfering with you moving on, not as coming to you a bawling snotty mess overcome with remorse for what she did. She does not come to you with clear direct desire for a new relationship, nor does she describe how she sees that new relationship.

Maybe she is punishing you for divorcing her. Maybe she can't stand the rejection, so she is keeping you from moving on. Maybe she is merely keeping you as a potential future Plan B if it should become necessary. Idk, but it reads to me like she is manipulating you to keep you from having your own separate life.


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## RP49D22

Thor said:


> I tried to start a new marriage with my wife 2.5 yrs ago. I suspected an affair but didn't have hard proof. We had lots of issues. Anyhow after a couple of tough discussions we agreed to start over. Then we had several conversations, all started by me btw, about what marriage means, what is important within a relationship, and what the boundaries are.
> 
> My wife agreed with what I said, and she showed what the shrinks call "Level 1" changes. Those are simple behavioral changes but without deep real changes to the person's belief system. For example, a wife might learn to say "How was your day?" when the husband comes home. Level 1. But if the wife doesn't have a genuine interest in the answer it never gets past being a meaningless action.
> 
> So in reality the relationship remains the old one. It has a new coat of wax on it, but the wax dulls quickly.
> 
> Until your x demonstrates an understanding of what is needed to even attempt an R, she will _at best_ only be capable of Level 1 changes. I don't think your x is even at that point yet, to be honest.
> 
> My interpretation of what you've written is that your x wants is to disrupt you. You have described her as interfering with you moving on, not as coming to you a bawling snotty mess overcome with remorse for what she did. She does not come to you with clear direct desire for a new relationship, nor does she describe how she sees that new relationship.
> 
> Maybe she is punishing you for divorcing her. Maybe she can't stand the rejection, so she is keeping you from moving on. Maybe she is merely keeping you as a potential future Plan B if it should become necessary. Idk, but it reads to me like she is manipulating you to keep you from having your own separate life.


You may very we'll be correct and the way you described the level 1, was a good summation of my marriage and the depth or lack thereof, of her communication. Her mother is very much like this, which I can clearly spot a mile away....although it took the divorce for me to see my x like this.

She has not come to me bawling, she has not mentioned the actual word reconciliation, and perhaps I am her plan B in her mind. 

The recent round of communication only came after she thought I had gotten engaged....which hasn't happened as I'm not ready for that (obviously). You could be spot on. 

I just never had the luxury of her going to counseling. Had we been able to give that a shot and it didn't work, I would not be thinking "what if". She did a few sessions on her own when I discovered the affair, but then quit saying she didn't have the money ($20 co-pay).


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## cdbaker

Yeah I don't get the impression that, at least for the moment, she is fully interested in a genuine reconciliation. I keep thinking that she is maybe just a little jealous of your independence, you being happy with your girlfriend, maybe remembering a few happy memories due to the holidays, etc. She could also just be fishing for attention, just looking for someone new to deliver her a self esteem boost now that things have gotten a little more dull and boring with OM. I don't think I would remotely consider trying to rekindle anything with her unless I saw some far more drastic moves.


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## anchorwatch

A dog my have a new bone to occupy her, while she has no use for older bones laying about the yard. If another dog were to retrieve one of those bones, the display of growls and teeth would be forth coming.

Why would you torture yourself any further. You can't go back and change the mistakes of the past. You can move forward, making yourself a stronger person, and have a second chance at a good future with someone else. She's moved on. She got a new lover, and didn't want to do anything because she wanted him, not you. You should move on too. Enjoy your time with your new woman.


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## RP49D22

cdbaker said:


> Yeah I don't get the impression that, at least for the moment, she is fully interested in a genuine reconciliation. I keep thinking that she is maybe just a little jealous of your independence, you being happy with your girlfriend, maybe remembering a few happy memories due to the holidays, etc. She could also just be fishing for attention, just looking for someone new to deliver her a self esteem boost now that things have gotten a little more dull and boring with OM. I don't think I would remotely consider trying to rekindle anything with her unless I saw some far more drastic moves.


I have seen nothing drastic on her end other than periodic inquiries. As I said, little contact over the holidays despite me having our son up north in wicked weather.....until she thought I was engaged. 

At what point (I'm 2yrs out now) do you just forget what was the "family unit" and ignore the background noise of X and get into a deeper relationship, commitment, etc. with another women? This is part of what knows at me and is the only anchor that fully keeps me from moving on. Maybe I'm not making sense, I don't know.


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## cdbaker

Well gosh, the divorce has been final for two years, it sounds like there hasn't been any real notable effort on her part in that time to indicate that she is interested in changing course, so I'd say you are well beyond the time to give up and move on. In fact, I think that would be the best thing for you to do even if you do still harbor a notion of your family being together again.

I say that because focusing on yourself and your future will result in a better outcome no matter how it plays out. Maybe you'll marry your girlfriend and create a new extension of your family. Maybe you'll marry someone else. Or maybe your showing that you are intent on finding happiness with someone else will further wake your ex up to the fact that she is going to lose you permanently and she could make some changes to her life and reevaluate her goals. But in any case, waiting around for her to do that or worse, constantly inquiring about the possibility and indicating that you are open to it, will only PREVENT that possibility, no matter how small a chance it actually is. Plus, in doing so you'll miss out on opportunities with other women who might be really great for you. Women can figure it out eventually if a guy is reserving a part of himself for someone else, realizing they are plan B.


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## RP49D22

cdbaker said:


> Well gosh, the divorce has been final for two years, it sounds like there hasn't been any real notable effort on her part in that time to indicate that she is interested in changing course, so I'd say you are well beyond the time to give up and move on. In fact, I think that would be the best thing for you to do even if you do still harbor a notion of your family being together again.
> 
> I say that because focusing on yourself and your future will result in a better outcome no matter how it plays out. Maybe you'll marry your girlfriend and create a new extension of your family. Maybe you'll marry someone else. Or maybe your showing that you are intent on finding happiness with someone else will further wake your ex up to the fact that she is going to lose you permanently and she could make some changes to her life and reevaluate her goals. But in any case, waiting around for her to do that or worse, constantly inquiring about the possibility and indicating that you are open to it, will only PREVENT that possibility, no matter how small a chance it actually is. Plus, in doing so you'll miss out on opportunities with other women who might be really great for you. Women can figure it out eventually if a guy is reserving a part of himself for someone else, realizing they are plan B.


You are some very good points. I do need to move on and every time I get in a good place even without contact it's as if the X knows it and plays some game to draw me back in to a mental quandary. 

I know there's no real answer here other than to move on. As everyone knows it's tough and I've just got to press on. 

I don't have anyone separated from the fry who I can talk to, so the comments here are helpful. Based on what I've heard, it doesn't seem like I'm missing anything....with respect to the X's lack of true effort. She hasn't come balling her eyes out, imagining us getting back together and what it would look like or what she could do to change. I suppose I'm misreading the queues which are really just manipulation.


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## honcho

2 years after the divorce is final you have been patient long enough. You asked in a post what do I do? Well what do you want? If she called you tomorrow and said she had enough of the boytoy and the new life she has and wants to come back to try to work it out what would you truly do? Or are you more driven out of fear at this point that she may actually ask to try and reconcile?

You have started a new life, you have a girlfriend, any attempt at reconciling you would have to leave what you have now. You have the family unit picture in your head but will all it ever will be a picture, your children have grown your x has been living a life you don’t understand for over 2 years. It will not and cannot ever be “the family unit” you envision.

You were married a long time and obviously the divorce was heartbreaking to you. I think you are trying to read more into your x actions than are really there. I also think that if she would ask you for another chance your answer would have to be No. I do think her motives at this point may be more out to hurt you more than anything or the boytoy relationship is failing and she is on the hunt again. I think you would have to sacrifice too much and she hasn’t sacrificed at all.


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## RP49D22

honcho said:


> 2 years after the divorce is final you have been patient long enough. You asked in a post what do I do? Well what do you want? If she called you tomorrow and said she had enough of the boytoy and the new life she has and wants to come back to try to work it out what would you truly do? Or are you more driven out of fear at this point that she may actually ask to try and reconcile?
> 
> You have started a new life, you have a girlfriend, any attempt at reconciling you would have to leave what you have now. You have the family unit picture in your head but will all it ever will be a picture, your children have grown your x has been living a life you don’t understand for over 2 years. It will not and cannot ever be “the family unit” you envision.
> 
> You were married a long time and obviously the divorce was heartbreaking to you. I think you are trying to read more into your x actions than are really there. I also think that if she would ask you for another chance your answer would have to be No. I do think her motives at this point may be more out to hurt you more than anything or the boytoy relationship is failing and she is on the hunt again. I think you would have to sacrifice too much and she hasn’t sacrificed at all.


I think I am reading into her actions far too much. I've always had a habit of doing that, so you are probably right on all counts. I guess it helps to hear it from someone else.


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## forumman83

RP

Don't be a fool. She is only feigning interest in you right now because you have a girlfriend and you seem happy.

She doesn't care about you on any sort of deep level and if you reconcile then the relationship will fail again.

Don't screw things up with your girlfriend for someone who doesn't deserve it....trust me, you will regret it.


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## RP49D22

forumman83 said:


> RP
> 
> Don't be a fool. She is only feigning interest in you right now because you have a girlfriend and you seem happy.
> 
> She doesn't care about you on any sort of deep level and if you reconcile then the relationship will fail again.
> 
> Don't screw things up with your girlfriend for someone who doesn't deserve it....trust me, you will regret it.


I hear you and understand what you're saying. You sound as if you've been burned yourself by an attempt at reconciliation. 

I got a text from the X the other day, telling my that I'm blind. Very cryptic, asked her to elaborate, yet she didn't. Am I supposed to see this type of communication as some attempt on her part to reconcile? I'm not stupid, this half assed text doesn't constitute any level of effort whatsoever. Am I blind and missing something or confused because she's playing games? 

If someone wanted to reconcile it seems they would be falling all over themselves with communication to their former spouse and not in a cryptic manner either. 

I should preface my mention of the text by the fact that if came after she knew I was going to see my girlfriend up north.


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## forumman83

This is classic MANIPULATION. She is manipulating your feelings and keeping you in limbo so that you continue to do as you are doing now: pine over every word and action that she communicates to you.

Her calling you blind...what does that mean? It means nothing. It means that she wants you to think about what it means and, more importantly, think about her. She wants to keep you in her back pocket. Not because she loves you, but because why not have your cake and eat it too? That is what she is doing. 

Yes I have been burned by an attempted reconciliation and I've also been a member on here long enough to be able to tell you how something is going to end after simply reading a few posts. I think the general consensus on this thread would be to agree with my analysis but often times we are too stubborn to listen to those who have the experience to show you things that you can't see yourself. 

My friend, either you let your ex go now and move forward with your new GF (who actually loves you) or you screw up the relationship with both women by hanging on to a past that no longer exists.


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## cdbaker

My "off the cuff" thought is that this reminded me of my last girlfriend. We hit it off well after our first date, I knew I liked her a lot, and so I wanted to "do it the right way" and be a perfect gentleman. I didn't try to rush anything, didn't try to get her into bed or anything like that. In time, she started acting strange, acting very frustrated, even demanded to know if there was something wrong that she couldnt' see, etc. Of course the issue was that she was trying to drop little feminine clues that she wanted me to pursue her further, specifically physically, take it to the next level, etc. I was so caught up in being a gentleman that I didn't want to assume and misinterpret anything. She told her friends that I must be blind or a fool or both.

Ultimately though her goal was to get ME to initiate her seduction, for me to "put myself out there" for her, because women HATE to do that first. We guys don't like to get rejected but women REALLY hate to get rejected. So I'm willing to bet that she wants you to put yourself out there and show that you're willing to pursue her.

The problem is, you really don't know why for sure she might feel that way. Is she falling for you again? Is she just between men at the moment? Is she just looking for a lay? Is she just lonely? Or is she just testing you to make herself feel better by seeing if she's still "got it" and can make you dance on command? Normally I am all for the guy making that first move, but in this case, no way. She wanted the divorce, she got it, if she wants to reconsider then she needs to prove it to you by showing you she has changed, is committed to that change and put herself out there FIRST, before you consider derailing your new life for her.


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## RP49D22

forumman83 said:


> This is classic MANIPULATION. She is manipulating your feelings and keeping you in limbo so that you continue to do as you are doing now: pine over every word and action that she communicates to you.
> 
> Her calling you blind...what does that mean? It means nothing. It means that she wants you to think about what it means and, more importantly, think about her. She wants to keep you in her back pocket. Not because she loves you, but because why not have your cake and eat it too? That is what she is doing.
> 
> Yes I have been burned by an attempted reconciliation and I've also been a member on here long enough to be able to tell you how something is going to end after simply reading a few posts. I think the general consensus on this thread would be to agree with my analysis but often times we are too stubborn to listen to those who have the experience to show you things that you can't see yourself.
> 
> My friend, either you let your ex go now and move forward with your new GF (who actually loves you) or you screw up the relationship with both women by hanging on to a past that no longer exists.


My gut tells me that it is manipulation because that's her typical way of operating. At the same time I guess I just don't want give up, although I realize that I risk screwing up a good relationship.

If not for having children together, there would probably be zero contact and no opportunity for her to know what's going on in my life and therefore unable to manipulate me. Only through the kids that she knows anything about what goes on in my life.


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## RP49D22

cdbaker said:


> My "off the cuff" thought is that this reminded me of my last girlfriend. We hit it off well after our first date, I knew I liked her a lot, and so I wanted to "do it the right way" and be a perfect gentleman. I didn't try to rush anything, didn't try to get her into bed or anything like that. In time, she started acting strange, acting very frustrated, even demanded to know if there was something wrong that she couldnt' see, etc. Of course the issue was that she was trying to drop little feminine clues that she wanted me to pursue her further, specifically physically, take it to the next level, etc. I was so caught up in being a gentleman that I didn't want to assume and misinterpret anything. She told her friends that I must be blind or a fool or both.
> 
> Ultimately though her goal was to get ME to initiate her seduction, for me to "put myself out there" for her, because women HATE to do that first. We guys don't like to get rejected but women REALLY hate to get rejected. So I'm willing to bet that she wants you to put yourself out there and show that you're willing to pursue her.
> 
> The problem is, you really don't know why for sure she might feel that way. Is she falling for you again? Is she just between men at the moment? Is she just looking for a lay? Is she just lonely? Or is she just testing you to make herself feel better by seeing if she's still "got it" and can make you dance on command? Normally I am all for the guy making that first move, but in this case, no way. She wanted the divorce, she got it, if she wants to reconsider then she needs to prove it to you by showing you she has changed, is committed to that change and put herself out there FIRST, before you consider derailing your new life for her.


I am inclined to agree, that she should make whatever move necessary to reconcile not me. At the same time I may be living in a fantasy land for the past, she hasn't made any sincere moves to reconcile. Even come right out and asked what she meant by calling me blind. I said if you have something to say just please come out and say it. I also said what do you mean blind?? Her response was Yep. 

The point of an earlier post, I got feel is that it's manipulation, But I can't be sure. I also can't wait to hold my life in limbo either.... Dance the confusion and conflict in my head.


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## RP49D22

All of these posts have been very helpful. There really helping me to sit back and take pause and think.


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## Blindsided13

Just a female perspective, your wife sounds like my husband he only communicates through email and text. 2 kids, 11 & 16. Everything he says is vague, it is so he can keep his options open, I guess if things don't work out with the chick he moved in with. We've only been separated 9 weeks, after 23 yrs of marriage I have no clue who he is, I don't think he does either. You need to focus on you. It has been two years. It's hard, but she DOESN'T CARE about you. Her actions has proven it over and over. Take care of yourself, live your life don't waste another minute on her. Be happy. A divorce didn't shock her out of craziness. There is nothing you can do, it's her problem. Leave it to her. You deserve to be happy, there is a woman out there that will be blessed and grateful to have such a loyal, loving man.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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