# Torn



## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

There are so many layers to this story, it's like peeling an onion! I will try to be as brief as I can. 

I met my husband when I was just 18 years old and he was 25. (He lied about his age.... I thought he was a bit younger.) Anyway, by the time I was 19 I was pregnant by him. He dumped me a few weeks before I found out I was expecting but we reconciled shortly thereafter. I caught him lying to me and seeing other women behind my back while I was pregnant. I tried to dump him but he begged me not to. What did I know? I was young, dumb, and "in love".
I turned 20 shortly after my daughter's birth and we started having serious relationship issues. We fought viciously over EVERYTHING-- from the cleanliness of the house to whether the wallpaper border was hung straight. We pretty much stopped having sex and it was all his doing. He'd make excuses, say he was tired, etc. I felt so unattractive and unwanted. I cried a lot and went through a pretty major depression. And yet I was still in love with him and wanted to be with him. So I began doing things to try to get his attention, including telling him I was going to cheat on him. Didn't really work the way I thought it would.
When our daughter was 8 months old I got a 3rd shift job because we were struggling financially. My boyfriend was working 12hr+ days at a bistro, so he couldn't get a second job. Daycare was too high, so working opposite shifts seemed to be the only solution.

Things got a little worse for us for a little bit, and then suddenly it was on an upswing. We had talked about marriage on and off between our big spats and I was still unsure about it. This wasn't the love I read about in books or saw in fairy tales and I didn't know how you could tell if a person is the one you are supposed to marry or not. Finally I just asked myself if I could ever see a time in my life where I would want to be without him. The answer was no. So we got married. I was 21, almost 22.

We decided to make some big changes: moved to a different state close to my family, and the hubby started going to school full time in addition to working. We added a new baby to our family 2 years after we got married. We certainly did have some ups and downs, but the valleys were always followed by peaks. I felt our relationship was stable and good. And yet every-once-in-a-while, things from the past would rear their ugly heads. I tried to keep the romance going... leaving emails or notes for my husband to make him smile, giving him a massage, etc. He wasn't into kissing and not much of a cuddler either. Pity. 

In the first 7 1/2 years of marriage I caught him several times emailing women inappropriately. What I mean by that is him saying things to women that a married man has no business saying to anyone who is not his wife. I threatened to leave over these incidents but I never had any intention of following through. 
He all but single-handedly killed the romance in our marriage over the years. He wanted sex, but no cuddling or kissing. What is that?? 
We added another member to our family via an unplanned pregnancy when I was 28. It was just before this pregnancy that I began to get resentful... he decided he wanted a career change. We spent $40,000 for him to get a degree in the field he is in. In my mind, he should not switch careers (which would entail a fairly significant pay cut) until his student loans are paid off. I supported him when he wanted to go to school. I have always supported his dreams. Now I feel like it's my turn. I made my point of view perfectly clear, and yet he went behind my back at least 3 times that I know of and tried to obtain a job in the new field of his choosing. 

So we finally get to the point where I've seriously just had enough. We've had 8 years of marriage by this time, I'm turning 30 and once again working a 3rd shift job because I always put what I want on the back burner to do what needs to be done for the good of the family. 
There is no romance left in my marriage, it's like I'm kissing my brother. I haven't been in love with him for at least 5 years. I'd try to go on dates with him but it always felt so contrived and fake. All we could talk about was our kids. Did we even have anything in common anymore? My dreams aren't supported, my opinion is not valued, And he's begun ignoring me. I would sit next to him on the couch while he was on his laptop and I'd watch tv, JUST so I could be close to him. Within 20-30 minutes he'd be upstairs in our room. I'd give him 20-30 minutes up there and when it became apparent he wasn't coming back, I'd go upstairs too. Sometimes he'd be in bed watching the most god-awful boring shows but I would stay and watch anyway, just to be next to him. Sometimes he'd be asleep. If it was one of those days he was still awake, within another 1/2 hour he would go downstairs again and not come back. Is it so awful that he can't even be in the same room with me? I tried to talk myself down and tell myself that it was just a coincidence (that every time I entered a room, he left it) and it had nothing to do with me, that he wasn't avoiding me, etc. But it certainly did hurt.

I finally got to a breaking point and stopped caring. I decided that I was going to start doing me and doing what made me happy. Screw everything else. I began having an affair with a co-worker and just doing general things that were totally out of my character. Hubby noticed the changes, did some digging around and busted me. I told him I wanted a divorce. This was a year and 1/2 ago.
The affair was a wake up call for him. Not only did he forgive me for it, but he validated EVERYTHING that I had been thinking and was feeling. He understood WHY I did it. He WAS ignoring me. He WAS intentionally leaving the room when I would come in. When I would ask him why he did that he simply said he "didn't know" and that he "was just being stupid." ???? He DID recognize that his inaction in our marriage had caused the romance to fizzle out and that our marriage was on life support, only surviving because of MY continued efforts.
He went through a really tough time for the first couple of months after the affair. Stopped going to work, was leaving early constantly and almost got fired. It was a really tough time for both of us. I recommitted myself to him and our marriage and we made it through.

Present Day: we'll be celebrating our 10th anniversary later this year, IF we can make it. These last 2 years have been terribly troubling for me. This is more than just a slump. I think after all the years of giving all I had to this man and this marriage, I am just exhausted. I don't want to try anymore. I am entertaining thoughts of separation quite frequently and I have told him so. The reasons I hesitate are our 3 beautiful children... ages 11, 7, and 2. I also have a reasonable fear that I wouldn't be able to make it on my own. In our household my husbands income is about 66% of our expenses and mine is only 33%. We have a mortgage that I would never be able to afford on my own (much less the utilities) and he wouldn't be able to afford it EITHER if I took him for child support and alimony. We took a loss on the house when the housing market came crashing down, so we really have no choice other than to keep it. So then I am faced with having to do a 50/50 custody arrangement with no child support involved so he can keep the house for our kids. That would put me moving into a 1 bedroom apartment. Where will I put the kids when it's my 4 days to have them? 

I started telling my husband that I felt that our marriage was doomed... these last 2 years have really shown me the writing on the wall. I thought maybe we should have a trial separation. 
I thought maybe after I saw how difficult it was without him that I would have the desire to be with him again.
Then I started to feel like maybe I should get some counseling for myself. Why was I telling him we needed a trial separation? Because I felt like sometime in the FUTURE our marriage was going to implode? Ridiculous! Why am I worried about what may happen in the future? I need to focus on the here and now.

But this is the here and now, isn't it? And this is how I feel. I guess because we don't fight and I'm not completely miserable and unhappy I don't feel like I should leave. But why should I stay in a loveless marriage? The love is so, so far gone. It can't be recovered. We've grown SO far apart over the years, not to mention the fact that at almost 32 years old, I am a completely different person than the one I was at 18. We have a good friendship and I love him, but I have not been in love with him for 5+ years and life is so short.

I'm torn and confused. Any guidance or BTDT stories are welcomed. Thanks for reading this novel!


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## lonely_man98 (Jul 26, 2011)

Do you know if he is in Love with you or just with you because of the kids? Do you guys spend time away from the kiddos as a couple? Unfortunately , Us Men Mature way later than Women do. I kinda went through the Same thing with my wife. We worked all day and when we came home from work it was all about the kids. We then realized that we needed time away from the kids and work. We started to go on dates , spending time with each other " No Computers or TV unless we were watching the same shows." Little by Little the Love and Romance came back. Most spouses do not forgive a affair and end up divorcing. the fact that he forgave you , shows that he is in Love with you. after he found out about such affair, he then Realized what he had done and did not blame you for it, this means a lot. I'm wondering what kind of Marriage example did your Hubby have from his Parents when he was growing up? I would suggest you get some Counseling , due to the fact you probably feel like you have been robbed of your youth and blame it on your Husband. If you think you are still with him just because of the kids, you will be one miserable person. I hope you can find the Answers to your problems and hope to hear the outcome of it all. Take care.


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## upset/confused (Jul 26, 2011)

I can relate somewhat to your husband's actions. Although I don't think the love is our marriage is completely gone. As we sat in the therapist's office the other day he told me that he didnt want me to hate him. We just started a separation on his request. I told him that I would resent him unless he tried everything to figure out what the problem is. Not save the marriage but to see if it was worth saving. We have two small kids. I know my problem, identified it, told him and have changed my behaviour. He hasnt' changed his yet. I told him to look at it this way. I was once your prized Truck that you love more than life. One day I came home with a huge dent in the door and the door became immobile. Now, do you feel that you should take it to the mechanic to see if it can be fixed or just go ahead and junk the entire vehicle. I feel that is you don't try everything possible with an open heart/mind then you will have regrets into your next relationship and they will surface again. This way, talking with a therapist, helps you figure your crap out, whether you stay or leave. Good luck to you.


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

Thanks for the replies!

lonleyman- My husband is the product of a broken home. His mother went through men like water. :-(

He definitely loves me. He actually pretty much worships the ground I walk on. But the feeling is in NO way mutual. That's one of the reasons I have tried to talk myself into staying. I will NEVER find a man who does all the things for me that he does. He'll wake up before me to make me coffee and lay out my uniform. He does the bulk of the household chores and I pay the bills/do the budget. He randomly buys me flowers and makes me my favorite foods. And he is a good dad. He was a piece of crap when we were young, straight up. But over the years he has transformed into a relatively decent person and spouse. He says he credits me for making him who he is.
I worry about how he would hold it together if we split. He almost lost his job when the affair went down, I can just imagine how it would be if I left. When I think about leaving, I feel like it would be so, SO easy for me to take that step out the door if it weren't for having to see his reaction.

I am a very logical thinker, but sometimes I struggle over big decisions. This being a case in point. I don't really think counseling can do anything for me that I can't do for myself. Communication is not our problem. But money to go to counseling would be hard to come by.

We have not had much time away from the kids at all over the course of our marriage. At the beginning it was because we couldn't afford any getaways so we didn't make it a priority or concern. Now we still can't really afford it and being hundreds of miles away from family we have no built in babysitting either.

I don't really think I feel robbed of my youth, I think it's more that I regret the (many) stupid decisions of my youth. I was too young to have a baby, I was too young to get married. I didn't know what was good for me and no one cared enough to play devil's advocate for me. I didn't make college a priority. Basically I feel like I did it all WRONG because I was too young and stupid to know better. No one told me marriage was a garden. My parents never went out anywhere and they struggle with their own marital issues.

Now I am here with 3 kids, no degree, and not much wiggle room. I'm tied down. I am constantly thinking about how I am going to advise my daughters strongly against the life I chose, I want better for them. So I guess you could say I have spent the majority of our marriage living in some level of regret.
I feel like I have outgrown him. I sort of looked up to him in a way when I was so very young and now It's more like I'm looking down on him.

upset/confused- I understand what you are saying, but in our case I feel like I have been pounding out that dent BY MYSELF for years, and because of the affair he is just now becoming present again in our marriage and putting forth the effort as well. But it really feels like a little too little, too late. 
I clearly communicated my thoughts and feelings repeatedly to him. I told him I felt isolated from him, ignored, unloved, etc. And he ignored it. He was totally unconcerned.
The affair snapped him out of whatever daze he was in, but it had 2 different meanings for us. While he perceived it as a wake up call and a call to action in our marriage, it was more like a "last rites" for me. I gave all I had for years and years, and THAT was me FINALLY throwing in the towel and saying you know what, I don't care anymore. So now it's as if we've traded places. He is making all these efforts on his part and I can't give 2 ****s on mine. I just think I am worn out from this marriage. I am drained. I'm just emotionally DONE.

I thank you all for being my sounding board.


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## lonely_man98 (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow, If you say he does all these good things like: Chores around the House, Helping out a lot etc. He is what a lot of women dream of. I'm so sorry you are going through this , and are so confused. The Grass is always greener on the other side and it's not till we walk over to the Grass, We notice that it's because it's over the septic Tank. If you don't think counseling will help at all, I suggest you then talk to him and tell him what you want to do. He's more than likely thinking one thing and worshipping you while you are on the opposite side towards him. so he's working towards something that is not there. I'm still shocked a little , he makes coffee for you and gets your clothes ready? you really don't see that nowadays. I'm wondering if his Father shows any emotions at all? Maybe, this is all he knows. either way I wish you the best and hope this gets resloved.


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

He IS what a lot of women dream of. Through reading and research we discovered that his love language is "acts of service". He is trying to show me he loves me by doing all this stuff for me but it gets lost in translation. My love language is "Quality Time"... something I seldom get from him. While I APPRECIATE all that he does in our home, It does not make me FEEL LOVED. It is not a SUBSTITUTION for putting the time in with me.

I know he loves me because he tells me he does. But there is such a fundamental disconnect in our marriage... I doubt it is repairable. At this point I just feel like I don't have the energy to devote to this "lost cause". I am so indifferent. 
I think all of the different things we have been through over the years have slowly beat me down. I feel like someone should shake me by the shoulders and make me see reason. But am I being unreasonable? I'm not so sure.

I don't necessarily think that the grass is greener on the other side. It's about settling for mediocrity in a marriage. Should I? Should I just accept it for how it is or is it ok to want more? I feel like this relationship is just going to continue to decline.


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## lonely_man98 (Jul 26, 2011)

just wondering how things were going?


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

wonder_woman said:


> He IS what a lot of women dream of. Through reading and research we discovered that his love language is "acts of service". He is trying to show me he loves me by doing all this stuff for me but it gets lost in translation. My love language is "Quality Time"... something I seldom get from him. While I APPRECIATE all that he does in our home, It does not make me FEEL LOVED. It is not a SUBSTITUTION for putting the time in with me.
> 
> I know he loves me because he tells me he does. But there is such a fundamental disconnect in our marriage... I doubt it is repairable. At this point I just feel like I don't have the energy to devote to this "lost cause". I am so indifferent.
> I think all of the different things we have been through over the years have slowly beat me down. I feel like someone should shake me by the shoulders and make me see reason. But am I being unreasonable? I'm not so sure.
> ...


You are a slave to your emotions. Until you fix that, you will never find a marital relationship that will stand the test of time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rfAlaska (Jul 28, 2011)

I don't believe you are a slave to your emotions. I do believe you are emotionally gone and you simply can't figure out how to flip whatever switch needs to be flipped in order to re-attach. In my mind, that's the fundamental problem and I honestly have no clue how to fix that. I do know that it's beyond challenging. I have done pretty significant individual counseling and the guy I am working with says that when he sees two people come in madder than hell at other, he can work with it because at least they feel SOMETHING. When he sees indifference, there's nothing to work with. The bottom line is that you're already mentally and emotionally long gone and if you could figure out the logistics (you're broke and you can't afford to walk) you would be physically gone as well.

The love language thing is interesting in that we tend to show love the way we want to receive it. He is clearly showing you that he loves you in ways that work for him, but he may not be astute enough to figure out that he needs to show you love the way that YOU want to receive it. Have you had that discussion with him? What about you? His love language is acts of service, yours is time. Do you have the energy or the desire to go out of your way to show him love the way that HE wants to receive it? What would happen if you did? You can only control yourself and how you act. 

The real "elephant in the room" here is what would happen if he truly started working to meet your emotional needs. Do you even want him to? From my perspective, the answer to that question is a big one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

rfAlaska said:


> I don't believe you are a slave to your emotions. I do believe you are emotionally gone and you simply can't figure out how to flip whatever switch needs to be flipped in order to re-attach. In my mind, that's the fundamental problem and I honestly have no clue how to fix that. I do know that it's beyond challenging. I have done pretty significant individual counseling and the guy I am working with says that when he sees two people come in madder than hell at other, he can work with it because at least they feel SOMETHING. When he sees indifference, there's nothing to work with. The bottom line is that you're already mentally and emotionally long gone and if you could figure out the logistics (you're broke and you can't afford to walk) you would be physically gone as well.
> 
> The love language thing is interesting in that we tend to show love the way we want to receive it. He is clearly showing you that he loves you in ways that work for him, but he may not be astute enough to figure out that he needs to show you love the way that YOU want to receive it. Have you had that discussion with him? What about you? His love language is acts of service, yours is time. Do you have the energy or the desire to go out of your way to show him love the way that HE wants to receive it? What would happen if you did? You can only control yourself and how you act.
> 
> ...


Apparently, you don't know what being a slave to your feelings or emotions is. When you allow your indifference or feelings dictate your actions, then you are a slave to your emotions. When you start to allow biblical action or selflessness dictate your feelings, then true love can flourish. True love is defined in servanthood and a lowering of self. When both people can grasp this, true love can be built and be much stronger than anything you can imagine. It's not easy. Don't mistake that. But, it is the road less travelled and is tremendously rewarding. In our "microwave" society, people want things NOW. The OP is broken from within. That must be fixed first before any relationship can flourish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rfAlaska (Jul 28, 2011)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Apparently, you don't know what being a slave to your feelings or emotions is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At the risk of hijacking her thread ....

I would agree that I don't truly understand what it means to be a slave to your emotions. You have me thinking .... a lot .... thank you.

If marriage partners (together) took biblical action or selflessness seriously, neither one of us would be typing anything here.

The challenge from my perspective is two-fold: what happens if neither partner is willing (or able) to act as you suggest? Is there hope? I'm not so sure (though I know there is ALWAYS hope in God). Further, what if one party is willing to behave in this manner (and is) and the other is not. When do you give up?

I absolutely agree that your scenario is ideal, I'm just not convinced that it's possible unless the two people are equally committed to living that that way. THAT doesn't happen very often. You can only control yourself and anyone can choose to live the way you suggest. My point is that if the sentiment isn't reciprocated, it grows nearly impossible to not let your emotions influence how you feel. If you can put up with a lifetime of that and maintain a level of contentedness, you're a far better person than me.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Let me give you an example: My wife is a SAHM. We are 10 months since when finally told me "I'm detached from you and I love you, but I'm not in love with you." It has been an interesting road to say the least. (there has been zero intimacy or affection) This week, she admits that she is still in a very "negative" state of mind regarding us. How anything that happens it sends her into anxiety and it feels like the marriage is closing in on her. 

I walk away. Spend a few hours thinking about the conversation. I come back to her and tell her that I will take the children (we have 4) everyday after work and leave the house for at least three hours. I will feed them dinner, take them to my son's football practice, bring them home, bathe them, brush their teeth, and get them into bed. She has NO child responsibilities for 5 days. 

See, things changed for me when my wife took the kids to see her mom for a week in February. I was home alone to think and pray. I want her to have the same opportunity. This action makes me feel very good. My emotions are subservient to biblical action. This would not have been my action 3 months ago. I have definitely allowed my emotions and feelings to dictate my actions most of my life. Finally, things are changing. 10 months of NOTHING from your wife can wear you down, but its the ability to focus your emotions in certain ways that makes it really amazing. 

Now, I admit. This is a much harder process if the man does not lead it. Men are relatively detached from their emotions and really have a problem with allowing pride to affect their way of thinking. Because women are such emotional beings, it's harder for them to do this. The man was designed to sacrifice everything for oneness with the woman. (that is how Christ loves the church) Without that submission from the man, the relationship is out of balance. However, it seems from the OP that her husband has figured this out and started to apply it by her post. If she is patient, my bet is that the feelings slowly return. Also, with the RIGHT marriage therapist, he can learn to give her what she wants.


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

Dedicated- I think you nailed it... I am broken from within. I couldn't have said it better.



rfAlaska said:


> I have done pretty significant individual counseling and the guy I am working with says that when he sees two people come in madder than hell at other, he can work with it because at least they feel SOMETHING. When he sees indifference, there's nothing to work with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


when we started having our major issues and I couldn't even muster up the energy to voice my feelings, I knew that was a bad sign...and I told him so.

Thanks for checking on me (lonely  )and everyone for all the insights. 
I'm still hanging in there. I had a few really bad days but I am ok. I am still mulling over the possibilities, but I have pushed them to the back of my mind for the time being.
I decided to put one foot right after the other and keep on marching... our anniversary is in Sept and I am determined to celebrate it, come hell or high water. 
It's not exactly smooth sailing though. The trust issues I have from our past are flaring up like crazy right now. Because of his past actions, I "check up" on him every now again. I accidentally signed onto his facebook account while he was having a conversation in chat-- with a female, in Spanish. My Spanish is not good at all, and the contents of this conversation could not be fully translated by babelfish. It could be something or nothing, I didn't get enough to tell. What got me is that he deleted the conversation (but not before I copied it!) and all his chat history with her. He mentioned talking to her tomorrow at work...?? Not really the actions of an innocent man. Really, if he wants to carry on a relationship behind my back I'd like to know now so I can just flee already. And if he's not, It'd be great if he'd stop acting so shady.
Got to find myself a Spanish interpreter that doesn't know him!


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## dontKnowMe (Jun 1, 2011)

How about translate.google.com?


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

Thanks for the suggestion! 

I tried it and I am still not 100% clear if they are talking about loving each other or loving someone else. :scratchhead:


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> The trust issues I have from our past are flaring up like crazy right now. Because of his past actions, I "check up" on him every now again. I accidentally signed onto his facebook account while he was having a conversation in chat-- with a female, in Spanish. My Spanish is not good at all, and the contents of this conversation could not be fully translated by babelfish. It could be something or nothing, I didn't get enough to tell. What got me is that he deleted the conversation (but not before I copied it!) and all his chat history with her.


No way on this earth I would do this as a husband. Not good. Maybe nothing, but it isn't good. Talking to females you don't know on a chat. No way.


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

I try my best not to control him. I let him know that I don't like it, but I wont tell him that he can't be friends with females or talk to them, because I wouldn't want him to do that to me.
That said, I don't seek out friendships with men I don't know, nor do I spend hours looking up people from my past. Both of which he appears to do.

Because of the past, he agreed to a level of transparency. We both have each other's facebook and email account passwords. But when everything is in Spanish, it sort of defeats the transparency. Him deleting that conversation history really made me question things. He has had interactions with this female on FB before that have been questionable. She lives in another country, so she is not an immediate threat, but there is always the chance of an emotional affair I suppose.


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

SO, I finally broke down and sent the message to be translated to someone on facebook. he immediately messaged me to let me know that he had read my message, and he could have translated the whole thing for me, "sweetie". OMG I am so pissed. Why is he reading my messages that are not to a male, first of all. And second why does he get the 200% transparency and I get about 40%? I am SO furious. I don't have a right to know what is going on in his life, but he has the right to let me know that he not only knows what is going on in mine, but also rubs it in my face that I am ATTEMPTING to know what's up in his, but failing. 

I think I am done here.


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

Oh, and it gets better! So I asked him why he deleted his chat history with her and this is what he says:

Because this Person keeps bothering me telling how much she loves me. I don't know if u have seen that I have not talked to her in a long time, She always messages me about how much she loves and I have never leading her on. she was getting very ****ing annoying and every time she left me a Message , I would delete it.
I have kept my FB chat offline because of this ****. Everytime I was online , she would start bombing me with messages. I took her off my FB last night. I have never had an Affair with this Woman nor did I planned 2.
I kept erasing her messages because I did not want you to see them. but I never changed my Password. you think I never knew u were going to eventually log in to my page at some point? Of course I did, But I thought she would stop by now.
If you see I did not initiate the Convo last night and I told her that i had to go because you were coming out of the shower.. Because I did not want to talk to her.


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## dontKnowMe (Jun 1, 2011)

I must admit, that's a pretty clever story. It's *almost* believable. But not really.


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

yeah, I'm not buying it. He is claiming total innocence here. MAN UP ALREADY.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Yes, I talk to people of the opposite sex all the time. Especially, if I don't want to. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

So this is the translation of the convo they were having. Thoughts?

and why the smile
does it make you happy to know i feel for you

I am happy to know we still feel love

If you only knew
???

Tell me

It hurts me to love you and i dream with you


how bad.

I never thought it would hurt
but what can you do
no one told me to trust


Same here
I never thought about this

If it hurts you then why did you let me go

Because I did not want to keep involving you in this nightmare

I was already there
Ever since you came into my life
Love is not a nightmare

I know. But I felt really bad
I left this morning for work and I can talk to you from work


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## dontKnowMe (Jun 1, 2011)

Is she in red and he in blue?

It's possible, though unlikely, that they were discussing a Tim Burton movie. Just sayin'. Consider all angles.


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## ProfJ (Jul 28, 2011)

Gosh...


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

yeah, she's red. he's blue.

he fessed up about it, sorta. you know, nothing is his fault, it was all her. She initiated it and he never said he was going to leave me for her. blah, blah, blah.


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## xArielle (Aug 2, 2011)

Oh, I've heard so many weak-a** excuses for exchanges like this from my H. At some point you just have to laugh.

I feel like I'm trying to put together all the factors you are dealing with to suggest a way out for you.

Sounds like he still wants to be married to you, at least for now, at least that's how he's playing it. Given that he's getting supported through school, he could be using you on some level, conscious or not.

I'm also hearing that you are completely out of love with him, but still bothered about being deceived, possibly cheated on, on some level. Who wouldn't be, especially if you feel used? But it sounds like your heart isn't really on the line if you've been out of love with him for 5+ years, so maybe you're just wasting energy by monitoring him. On the other hand, and I know I'm starting to sound like I've watched too much "Alias" (guilty), but take screen shots of this stuff and save it to a password locked file, especially if you think they demonstrate that he's making the marriage unsustainable. If you can file for divorce for cause, it usually helps to have that kind of evidence, I think. I know he's got some things to say about you, but the way you describe it, it's done and forgiven.

Do you have some schooling or training you'd like to do that would give you more earning power? If he wants to stay married, why can't it be his turn to support you while you school up? Kill your FB account and let your emotional detachment provide a good foundation for focusing on getting yourself some leverage through education or training. He can defer paying his school loans while you go, if money is an issue. Then, if you're not back in love by the time you've got yourself into a better situation financially, you'll be in a better position to split?

You're still young, girl. I know it's messy and complicated and can't imagine how much more so with the kids involved. But if a marriage ends that doesn't mean it was a waste of time or a failure. People change (or don't). If you can start building a life for yourself while still in this marriage, it may be much easier to do what you seem to want to do - leave him for someone else (you! wonder woman, phase II!) On the other hand, it may create respect between the two of you that could revitalize things. 

Just brainstorming. As miserable and heartbroken and "torn" I have been about my own marriage, I am grateful every day that I can support myself if I have to. I feel enormous sympathy for women who feel trapped by their responsibilities and limited by their resources.


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

xArielle- thank you for the kind words. I have really been going through hell the last few days. I exploded over that who exchange. BIG time. We had it out like we haven't had it out in years! While he was busy trying to reassure me that his exchange with this woman was oh-so innocent, he kinda threw himself under the bus on the other times I have busted him. NEVER have I sought out a translation and now I am wishing I had. Apparently he was leading the other women to believe that he wanted to be with them and was going to leave me for them. (Which he says he did NOT do with this one) He says he would never have the balls to do it, but he made them think that. So it's worse than I ever thought.
I am sorry, what happily married person does stuff like that? And why would he toy with women's emotions like that?
I asked him why he did it. What I wasn't giving him that he was looking for? All those times he has done this, I have been happy as a f'ing clam. NEVER suspecting that he was unhappy or trying to get with someone else. He has NO ANSWERS for me. And all he can say is he is sorry and he doesn't want to see me like this. Did he really think his actions would have no repercussions? That no one would be hurt? 

He said he was going to delete all these random people from FB. Did he? No. And I feel like he owed that girl an apology and an explanation. At NO point did he tell her outright that he had a wife that he supposedly loves and that he wasn't interested. So by omission of those crucial details, he led her on. I thought in the very least after getting busted again he would be busting his hump to do whatever he could to show me he was getting on the right track as quickly as possible. That has not happened.

I think this marriage has been one big sham. Me, blissfully ignorant and devoted..... and him.


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## wonder_woman (Jul 26, 2011)

I discovered after joining this board that I am the very definition of co-dependent...



> Three simple questions can help you identify a codependent relationship, the experts tell WebMD.
> 
> Question 1: Is this relationship more important to me than I am?
> 
> ...


This is me to a T. What really hit me was the fact that my affair was the turning point in our marriage. That was when he knew I had given up. Just like Web MD said... the person has to give up and say their through before the other person says,"Hey, wait a minute...."

I wonder if it is my codependency that is keeping me here now. I am sure my parents would let me stay with them, but they are a state away so that would be a big move and I'd have to find another job. I want to do this the right way. That's what I am telling myself. But is it really just an excuse to stay here with him?


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## xArielle (Aug 2, 2011)

You don't have to figure that out in order to decide what you want to do about your marriage though. And you think you might be codependent? Hi, I've got 'Breaking Free' and 'Codependent No More' on my bookshelves right now. Nice to meet you.  And all that drama with him, he's not happily married (if nothing else, you did say he knew you'd given up once you the had affair), whatever, bottom line - you can't trust him and you want to do something about it. If you want to try to work it out, according to what you quoted, your giving up "nudged the relationship toward healthy change" already. (Awesome, right?) Just go to school while the two of you are working on it. ; ) But only you know when you're done.


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## kitkat1 (Sep 14, 2011)

I find it interesting that no one mentioned or brought up the fact that you did have an affair years ago and how it may relate to his current behavior. Did he truly forgive you....like mind, body and soul forgiveness or has he been harboring some sort of resentment all of these years and feels justified that it's okay for him to flirt with women on facebook because you actually acted on it with a real affair (even though it was years ago).....just a thought....I don't know but men seem to think that way.Then you throw in the fact that you have been struggling for years and you've told him a few times that you were dis-engaged from the marriage. Maybe he too has "checked out" and is feeling trapped as well. I guess the bigger question to ask yourself is - if you leave and he finds someone else are you going to be okay with that? Or are you going to melt down, realize you had a good thing going with a husband who was actively involved by cooking and making you breakfast every day, taking care of the kids, being a good provider and husband, laying your work clothes out for you every day, telling you he loves you.....really?


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I know what you mean.. I had my first child at 15.. Met and married my husband at 19... I am not the same woman i was at 19,(H is 10 years older) i was only a child let to make adult decisions. 

I am 33 now. Don't get me wrong I love my husband deeply and we are going through our share of problems right now. 

You have to do what is right for you. If you want to try to work out your marriage, it will be a long road. If you still love him and he you it will be worth it.. 

Never stay for children. Children are smarter then we give them credit for.. They may not understand completely what is going on between the two if you, but they know. Never stay because you aren't financially able to leave.. you would find a way.. Stay because you want to, because you love your husband.. And if things don't work out then go your separate ways.. then you will never have to say what if.


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## SoHO (Sep 19, 2011)

I think you need time to sort things out. get away for a couple of days with your H and try to reconnect. He is the head of the house but you are the "neck" that guides it. So the answer is: if you want your marriage to work YOU have to make efforts to make it work. Get back in the same carriage and ride the horses where ever YOU want. After all at the end of the day the most important thing is that you have someone to share your life with, someone that deep down loves/loved you and you can say goodnight to. I know it sounds easy to say it and hard to do it but I am telling you women can do miraculous things. At 40 you will think at this like a midlife crisis. Picture this: you divorce, get the kids and re-marrie. Are you sure it's going to work? Who knows....If it's not gonna work, will YOU make it work? This one is working and you are having a bump along the way. That's all. Good luck! SoHo


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

kitkat1 said:


> I find it interesting that no one mentioned or brought up the fact that *you did have an affair years ago* and how it may relate to his current behavior. Did he truly forgive you....like mind, body and soul forgiveness or has he been harboring some sort of resentment all of these years and feels justified that it's okay for him to flirt with women on facebook because you actually acted on it with a real affair (even though it was years ago).....just a thought....I don't know but men seem to think that way.Then you throw in the fact that you have been struggling for years and you've *told him a few times that you were dis-engaged from the marriage. Maybe he too has "checked out" and is feeling trapped as well.* I guess the bigger question to ask yourself is - if you leave and he finds someone else are you going to be okay with that? Or are you going to melt down, realize you had a good thing going with a husband who was actively involved by cooking and making you breakfast every day, taking care of the kids, being a good provider and husband, laying your work clothes out for you every day, telling you he loves you.....really?



I was kind of wondering about these things when I was reading this. Go figure that he might be detached a bit. :scratchhead:


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