# Friend suffering from anxiety/panic when SO can't be reached, advice?



## harlisondavidly (Jul 4, 2011)

Seeking some help for my best friend... I've known her for about 20 years.

Some background: She just turned 40 last year. She was married in 1998 and got divorced in 2008. She has not been married since but she and her ex husband have remained in contact and have still tried to work things out. About 2 or so years ago she finally broke it off. She did not date anyone in the meantime but had some strange ideas that dreams she was having were from God about a guy she knew that she thought was going to be her husband in the future (as she interpreted the dreams). That's a long story I won't really get into here now.

Fast forward to this past January. The thing with the "dream" guy tanked eventually for a variety of reasons and she is feeling despondant about this. Then she is impressed to contact her ex and re-establish communication. He is very happy to hear from her and they both think this is providence. She feels this is an opportunity to try and get complete on things that were wrong in their marriage and were the cause of her leaving and divorcing him. She tells me that he is the only man she has ever been in love with. I've lived through long discussions with her about what led to the divorce, etc. So I know a lot about her history. They go through several weekends of stressful reliving of past sins that she brings up and needs to get him to understand about the pain he caused her and make things right with her. I found out about this maybe 3 months after it all started.

One of the reasons she left originally and eventually divorced him is that she felt abandoned. Like he didn't care or it wasn't important that he be available. One example was that sometimes he would work out of town and she'd never hear from him for days. She'd leave voice mail messages and he'd not reply. Another area that caused major problems was gambling. He'd gamble away money from his business hoping to parlay it into greater gain. But he wasn't as good as he thought he was and lost money. This bothered her greatly over the years and he'd make promises to stop but didn't. Even after they were divorced she'd loan him money for his business and then he'd end up gambling some of that away too.

So over the past few months she's started to share a bit about her dilema. They are "dating" sort of. I'm pretty sure they are sleeping together (she as much as admitted it without really saying it). The situation can be summed up as follows:

He is self employed and his income is VERY sporadic. He has never had a real job (working for an employer). He and his brothers have been involved in a family business (individually) that is outdoors and labor intensive. Even though he worked occasionally for one of his brothers, he had his own interest in another trade that he learned from his dad. But he's never been able to take it past the tinkering or hobby stage. He doesn't make enough money from it to raise a family or even support a wife. They previously had money troubles that were compounded by his gambling. The only good report to come out of the years of separation it seems, is he has stopped gambling. But regardless, he is not making enough money to even take care of himself. He rents a warehouse type place for his "business" and lives there as well. But he has been unable to pay rent consistently and I hear he's 6 months behind. The landlord has given eviction notice.

They live in two different cities about 3 hours apart. On the weekends they try to see each other. Yesterday my friend drove to the city her ex lives to spend some time with him. We texted this morning while he was doing a quick job he had lined up for today. And she shared with me the following. This is the part I'm interested in getting feedback on.

She starts by saying she is her own worst enemy, she keeps getting triggered by something and it ruins everything when they get together. When she tries to reach him by text or phone call and he is not there to answer immediately she panics. Last night after she arrived where he lives, he wasn't there. So she decided to text him and he didn’t reply for 9 minutes, before he replied to the text, she called him and he didn’t answer, but then he called her back 2 minutes after. She tells me that by then she had already went into a delirium mentally. So that by time he called her back (after less than 10 minutes apparently) the damage had been done.

I remind her the waiting is only a few minutes and she understands that. But then she says that she has no control. Within what seems like seconds she gets buried under an avalanche of painful emotions. The fear that he has abandoned her and she won’t be able to find him overwhelms her. Or another anxious thought is that he’s neglecting her and she fights feelings that he doesn’t care. One thing compounds with another and she can’t control it. She goes straight into panic and delirium.

She says she has never felt this with anyone else and she qualifies this by saying she has also never been in love with anyone else. Once she's gotten into this feeling of panic she says it's hard to recover from. It can take days.

Because of all this it’s damaging his affections for her. It’s like he is on pins and needles waiting for the next bomb to drop. Or another way to describe it is that he retreats into a shell.

I'm starting to do some reading and trying to help her, but not sure I can really do anything. Once she gets into this downward spiral in her mind, even her ex's attempts to calm her and reassure her do not help. He tells her that they will work on it and he doesn't want her to leave. She is ready to call it quits (even though he's the only guy she's ever loved). Of course there is so much more history of how they got to this point. The marriage had trouble from the very beginning. It's like every circumstance they face causes them to bring out the worst in each other.

My question... is there some psychological term for what she's going through? I have come up with "adult seperation anxiety". But not sure if that is the correct term or not. Looking forward to what comments/advice will show up here.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I believe the term you're looking for is 'nucking futs' (sorry to the poster of the same name).

Separation anxiety sounds as good as any. It's easy to see why your friend's ex wants to get back together - a steady paycheck. But, what's in it for your friend? Her gut is screaming for very good reasons.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

She needs to see a therapist, there are many things you pointed out that are red flags:

Poor choice in men
Separation anxiety as blondilocks points out
I'm not sure about her "dream interpretations" but if she's overly obsessed or this gets out of hand, it may be a symptom of a mental disorder or her way of coping with the unknown future. So, I can't say this is a red flag or not.


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## harlisondavidly (Jul 4, 2011)

As far as the "steady paycheck" being a motivator for the ex to get together, that's actually not it. He actually won't move in with her or remarry her unless he can take care of her. She told me that this is one of the "why is life so F'd up?" things that goes through her mind. She wants to be together with him, but everything conspires against it. He's won't let her take care of him. She has a dream of being a wife. She wants to stay at home and manage the home, have everything ready for him when he comes home at night, be adored by him, feel loved and cared for. She is only working because she has to take care of herself. She resents it, to be honest. 

Personally, I think her choice to start seeing him is a mistake. I know what she went through in round one and I don't see anything different in round two. He didn't provide a proper home for her before. They always lived either in a RV, in a small bungalow on a family member's property, etc. It's only when she got on her own that things got a little bit better. She eventually went to school and got a career going, and now works in a hospital. Her emotional dysfunction with him is just like it was before. I guess it's the dynamics of their marriage that caused her to start having this anxiety to begin with. I think she's hoping it will change somehow and things will be different. But she's now afraid that it's she who is damaged and she can't fix it. She hates that she gets this way (panic, anxiety) when he's unavailable, even though he has a legitimate reason. And I told her too that it's unreasonable to think someone can be available any time you want to reach them. In fact she herself chooses at times to ignore her phone, and "check out" for the night or the weekend, or whatever. Then I can't reach her. 

As far as her dreams go, they have been going on for years. I don't remember them all. But I've heard them all in great detail. One of them was about her ex before she married him. At least she interprets it that way. She felt that she begged God to let her marry him and finally God "relented" and told her that although she would get him, her life would be hard. And eventually they would not be together. And recently she recalled something about that dream and a lightbulb went on. She somehow calculated that in 2014 her marriage would be restored. But before that in her other dreams she knew this other man would be her husband. I mean she had trauma about this guy because things weren't moving forward like she thought they should. She even told him about the dreams. Just a couple weeks ago she found out this other guy got married.

When she first married her ex, she confided to one of her sisters the night before or the day of, that she knew she was making one of the biggest mistakes of her life but she didn't know what else to do. Her first marriage was an escape out of her home life. And she has told me that she felt somehow he needed her to rescue him for the Lord. She also felt that because of her situation at the time, she didn't want to impose her situation/drama/baggage, whatever on someone more stable and mature. He was all she deserved or was worthy of. And by then she "loved" him.

And the final little piece to the marriage puzzle was that both of her sisters also had fallen in love with 2 of his brothers. In fact she had dated one of the other brothers (out of the 6) when she was younger, but that didn't work out and he eventually died in a tragic accident. However the one she ended up marrying, she was fixated on him for several years off and on until they finally eloped (and a few months later had a church wedding). In the end all three girls were married to brothers. The other two are doing ok. Their men have managed to create careers for themselves and are more stable with income, etc.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does he ever answer back txts immediately?

Does he ever answer the phone when she calls?

What she's having are panic attacks. She's having them because she knows that he will never be there for her.

Him not answering back quickly has a lot of meaning to her in that he will never be there for her in the ways that are the most meaning full to her... supporting her in a good marriage.


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## harlisondavidly (Jul 4, 2011)

intheory said:


> Why are you so invested in this. I'm not saying it's bad. But, geez, you're even reading books for her?!


I don't recall saying I'm reading books for her. I've read books for myself and I'm much more interested in emotional health than I used to be. I've known her for some 20 years. We've gotten to be very good friends. But I love her whole family dearly. She and her 2 sisters consider me their big brother. It just breaks my heart to see her in such emotional upheaval. She's a very sweet person. But this one part of her life is just sapping all her vitality and joy.

I think you're right about her getting bored to bits. She's a very creative person. And she does have things she'd like to be involved with, at a level that matches the amount of energy she has available. Working 40 hour weeks is draining on her. She comes home many nights after work and just wants to go straight to bed. Summer is better than winter though. So right now it's not as bad. She has health problems that she has become aware of and hopefully changes she makes will help rebuild her strength and energy.

I've got serious misgivings about her dreams and putting too much importance on them. And I'm finally starting to share my true feelings about that with her. It's been hard for her because she has put so much faith in her interpretations and now thinking about them not being what she thought they were after investing so much time journaling and trying to understand them, it's made her very upset and frustrated.

She has not seen a mental health professional. The fellow who she thought was to be her husband (who is now married himself to someone else) once told her that he believes she needs some kind of counseling or other help to get stabilized. In their relationship he thought of himself more as a mentor to her, while she was looking at him as her future husband. One of the first times she mentioned him to me she said she had woken at night feeling anointed from God (oil was on her forehead like in the Bible stories) with a clear impression that he was to be her husband.

So as you can see, there are some strong, strange events that have gotten her all mixed up and anxious. When she couldn't get a relationship started with him, she often would wake at night panicked and her heart racing. She was unable to find peace or sleep and this took several days to go away. She would write him long letters describing what she was going through and why she felt they were to be together. One time when he started to make a "move" on her by making a comment on a photo she had posted on Facebook, she completely freaked out and had flashbacks to her ex-husband. She shut him down and unfriended him on Facebook, wrote him a very strong letter of rebuke. And then a day or two later she came to her senses, realizing he was trying to complement her as a woman, not just a friend, and she wanted to take it back but it was already gone. They continued to stay in communication after some down time but she felt she had blown it. A few months later the friendship between them did blow up. 

Well my answers are getting long, I remember details as I start to type and maybe some thing will trigger someone who reads to make a comment that will be helpful.


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## harlisondavidly (Jul 4, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Does he ever answer back txts immediately?
> 
> Does he ever answer the phone when she calls?
> 
> ...


EleGirl, your last point seems very pertinent. I think you are right, this is something that has great meaning to her and if he would just make this one change, it could help her start to trust him and eventually her need to be able to reach him right away would be lessened. I'm not an expert, but that could be an outcome.

She texted me yesterday and described him as "the absent minded professor". He's oblivious to how important this is to her and what it does to her. Not intentionally she feels, but to her he doesn't get it. And she wants to change him. 

He's in his mid 40's. Unless he takes major drastic steps to change, he's not going to change. He's had this as part of his personality as long as I can remember. I knew them both 20 years ago. Not as well as now but back then I thought he was a flake and had no motivation or plan for his life. In fact when I found out she was going to marry him, I could hardly believe it. But I support her and I do want her to be happy and to have joy. I can't choose who she will love. It's her decision.

Yesterday I told her that I think she will have to come to a point of decision. Can she live with his behavior or not? The answer will determine what she needs to do. To me there is more here than panic attacks. Even if she solves those there is not much to build a future on. The other stuff still looms.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"My question... is there some psychological term for what she's going through? I have come up with "adult seperation anxiety". But not sure if that is the correct term or not. Looking forward to what comments/advice will show up here."

I believe the term is "drama queen" and the best way to treat it is to not feed it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I suggest that she get two copies of the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters". 

She give one to him and keeps one herself. They both need to read the book and do what the books say to do.

She has a need for him to pickup the phone when he calls and/or reply to calls/txts as soon as possible.

He has a need for her to not pressure him about this.

They can negotiate and arrive at a compromise.

He answers quickly when he can. Surely it can be more than 50% of the time.

When she calls and he cannot answer, he can probably send back a txt saying that he'll call her as soon as possible.

My cell (android) has a function that lets me send a text to calls that I cannot answer. I use the one "I'm in a meeting" all the time.

Then she needs to stop the overreacting. If she needs to see a counselor about this, she sees a counselor.

Or she just needs to end the relationship. It does not seem like he gives her a lot of support. He'll never give her what she wants. If she were my friend (like a very close friend) I'd suggest to her that she moves on from this nonsense.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"harlison, I honestly thought you were a female friend."

Ditto.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

harlisondavidly said:


> My question... is there some psychological term for what she's going through? I have come up with "adult separation anxiety".


Perhaps she does suffer from ASAD, Harlison. Of course, you cannot diagnose your friend's issues. Only a professional can do that. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the warning signs for a disorder such as ASAD. Indeed, it is the laymen's ability to recognize these warning signs that explains why hundreds of mental health centers list and discuss these signs on their public websites. I therefore applaud your resolve to read about ASAD in an attempt to help your friend.

I note, however, that the abandonment fear that underlies ASAD is one of the key defining symptoms for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Specifically, the ASAD fear of separation closely matches the _“frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment”_ that is one of nine criteria used in diagnosing BPD. ASAD is classified in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM5) as one of the "anxiety disorders," which 81% of female BPDers suffer from. 

An important issue, then, is whether your friend strongly exhibits most of the other 8 BPD traits (in addition to the abandonment fear trait). Not having met her, I certainly don't know the answer to that question. It may be worth your while, however, to read about the BPD red flags to see if most sound very familiar.



> One of the reasons she left originally and eventually divorced him is that she felt abandoned. ...The fear that he has abandoned her and she won’t be able to find him overwhelms her.


As I noted above, BPDers have a great fear of abandonment. They also have a strong fear of engulfment, i.e., the suffocating feeling of engulfment that occurs when a loved one becomes intimate with them. Unfortunately, these two fears lie on the _very same_ spectrum. This means that, as you back away a BPDer to avoid triggering her fear of engulfment, you necessarily are drawing closer to triggering her abandonment fear. Moreover, there is no safe midpoints position in the middle where you can stand so as to avoid triggering both fears. I know because I wasted 15 years looking for that Goldilocks position.



> They live in two different cities about 3 hours apart. On the weekends they try to see each other. Yesterday my friend drove to the city her ex lives to spend some time with him.


Although BPDers have a great fear of abandonment, they often do the best job of sustaining a LTR when their partners are just out of arm's reach. The reason, as I noted, is that they avoid the pain of engulfment by pushing their partners away -- usually by creating an argument over something so minor that they cannot even recall what it was about a week later. The result is that most BPDer relationships are characterized by numerous breakup/makeup cycles due to the BPDer's alternating push-you-away and pull-you-back behavior.



> She says she has never felt this with anyone else and she qualifies this by saying she has also never been in love with anyone else.


That likely would be true for both ASAD sufferers and BPDers. The vast majority of BPDers, for example, get along fine with total strangers, casual friends, and business associates. As long as those folks do not try to draw close in a loving LTR, they pose no threat to a high functioning BPDer. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to cause engulfment. This is why a BPDer can be caring and generous all day long with complete strangers and then, at night, go home to abuse the very person who loves her.



> Because of all this it’s damaging his affections for her. It’s like he is on pins and needles waiting for the next bomb to drop. Or another way to describe it is that he retreats into a shell.


BPDers are notorious for making their partners feel like they have to walk on eggshells most of the time to avoid triggering another temper tantrum or cold sulking period. This is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to those abused partners) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._



> Once she gets into this downward spiral in her mind, even her ex's attempts to calm her and reassure her do not help. He tells her that they will work on it and he doesn't want her to leave.


If she suffers from ASAD, the anxiety is based solely on intense feelings and thus cannot be addressed through rational discussion. A person who is deathly afraid of elevators, for example, knows perfectly well that she is safe inside the elevator. She nonetheless experiences a powerful fear that is triggered when entering an elevator.

Similarly, the BPDer's fear arises from intense feelings that are so strong she feels they MUST be true. Moreover, a BPDer never matured enough at an emotional level to be able to intellectually challenge her intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts."



> She is ready to call it quits (even though he's the only guy she's ever loved). ...The marriage had trouble from the very beginning.


This behavior is characteristic of both ASAD and BPD. As I noted above, the push-you-away and pull-you-back cycle is a hallmark of BPD relationships.



> I'm starting to do some reading and trying to help her, but not sure I can really do anything.


If your friend suffers only from ASAD, you may be able to motivate her to see a psychologist by showing her the symptoms (i.e., warning signs) listed online by well-known mental health centers.

If you decide that you are seeing most of the BPD traits, however, it would be unwise to tell her the name of the suspected disorder. If she really does have strong BPD traits, she almost certainly would project the accusation right back onto you -- with the result that she would be convinced YOU are the one suffering from it. It therefore would be prudent to simply suggest she see a psychologist and not mention the pattern of warning signs.

Based on what you've said so far, Harlison, my best guess is that you are describing ASAD symptoms -- as you suspect. I don't see you describing most of the BPD red flags. The anger issues and fragile self-identity, for example, seem to be missing. Also missing is any mention of verbal abuse against her ex. Granted, you do mention the Ex waiting "for the next bomb to drop," but it is unclear whether your friend verbally abuses and blames him during those explosions. If she were a BPDer, she likely would be convinced she is always "The Victim" and he nearly always is the cause of her problems.

Yet, if you are interested in reading about BPD traits to see if most sound familiar, I would suggest you start with my list of these red flags in my post at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my post in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Harlison.


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