# You're talking about me here...



## cbd2010 (Aug 19, 2010)

For all those who post about how they are living in a sexless marriage/relationship, and their partner just doesn't want to have sex - you're talking about me. I'll freely admit it. 

Have been married for 12 years (together for 15). Got married right out of college. When we first met, and while we were engaged, the sex was frequent and pretty damn good. However, by the time the wedding took place, it wasn't happening very often. Slowly but surely, we've just stopped having sex. And I mean stopped. We haven't been intimate in over a year.

I will be completely honest and say it's pretty much entirely my issue. I am just not interested. I don't want him touching me, and I most definitely don't want to have sex with him. I am not attracted to him at all, and the idea of sex with him - well, honestly, it kind of creeps me out. For a couple of years we would have sex every so often - not because I really wanted to, but because I felt bad for not being interested. Not anymore. I think 'sympathy' sex is stupid (I KNOW I will get slammed for this). 

We talked about it a few months ago, and he said he didn't really care anymore. I'm not sure I entirely believe that, but of course, I'm not going to argue. He does work ridiculous hours, and we're never home or awake at the same time, but I rather doubt he's given up on it entirely.

Now - here's where things get complicated. For a number of years, I figured I just had the sex drive of a flowerpot - cold, hard, unyielding. Not only was I not interested in my husband - I wasn't interested in ANYone. Never saw a guy that I thought ‘ok, yeah, I'd sleep with him’. So, really figured it was just me, and that I was destined to go through life that way.

However. A few months ago I met someone - and the moment I saw him, it was like a bolt of lightning. Probably one of the most beautiful people I have ever seen in my life. Long story short (if you really want the gory details, they're in one of my other posts) we had a very brief EA. However, we realized we were playing with fire (he's also married) and so we said goodbye.

I swear, it was like a switch being thrown. All of a sudden I felt desired - and desiring. It's like my sex drive went from idle to being in the Indy 500. I've even dreamed about having sex. Unfortunately, I still don't want to have sex with my husband. Sometimes I'll start to consider it, and *wham* - it's like everything shuts down again.

Here's where things get really weird (yeah, I know - as if they weren’t already). I have almost never wanted children. We talked about it when we first got married, but I pretty quickly I decided I didn't want a family (he agrees on that point). Except that, in the past couple of months - I've started reconsidering. It's like my libido and biological clock all got turned on at the same time. Maybe I DO want kids. But I don't want them with him. I simply cannot imagine sharing parenthood with him. But, I guess that’s all really the subject for another post. 

Anyway. For numerous reasons – this being only one – we have been talking about separating. Am not sure how that will all work out. But in the meantime, we’re living completely w/out sex – and for the first time in a long time, I’m not sure how I feel about that. But I still am completely sure that I am not interested in him – which just makes things more confusing.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

You admitted this is all your problem and you have not mentioned that he has any issues (drinking, gambling, affairs, weight issues, etc...). 

Why wouldn't you at least give marriage counseling a try before trying a separation?


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## Boogsie (Aug 24, 2010)

I believe this is the most common type of sexless marriage. The male is missing sex, says something about it occasionally and the wife gives pity or STFU sex and the cycle repeats.

The wife says (like mine) that she doesn't care if she ever has sex again. However, time and time again, I read stories from women like my wife that finds something that lights the spark.

Its not that you don't want to have sex. You don't want to have sex with your spouse. 

Why would you. Your spouse doesn't turn you on, excite you, or make you feel all tingly.

What the spouse usually does do though, is provide a good husband, friend, is reliable and dependable. All the things you are told to look for in a husband. All the things boys today and from my generation were taught to be.

The problem is this type of husband is a doormat. The "Yes, dear. Whatever you want. Sure I can do that for you no matter how much it pisses me off" type of husband.

Women can not be turned on by someone they don't respect.

Sorry if I'm way off the mark, but I've seen this situation far too many times, with myself and my family members that it has become scary.


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## cbd2010 (Aug 19, 2010)

Chris Taylor,

I am currently seeing a counselor. I haven't brought up the idea to my husband yet. When we started talking about separating, he didn't really seem to care, which makes me wonder whether he's all that invested in the relationship either. And yes, I will certainly admit that the lack of sex may be part of the reason he's not. There are numerous other reasons we're considering separating, though - it's not just the lack of sex.

Boogsie,

I understand what you are saying. In this situation, though, I'm often the doormat - I am the reliable, dependable one who takes care of everything (and trust me - he is NOT the type to be treated as a doormat - if he doesn't want to do something, he makes no bones about it, and I have no problem with that). He goes to work, earns a paycheck, comes home. That's it. I take care of everything in the household. Because of his work schedule (and mine) I don't see him during the week, and on the weekends he's so exhausted he sleeps until noon (I'm usually up at 6). So we don't really see each other much.

Don't get me wrong - I am definitely not blaming him for any of this... just pointing out some other factors.


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

Boogsie said:


> Women can not be turned on by someone they don't respect.
> 
> Sorry if I'm way off the mark, but I've seen this situation far too many times, with myself and my family members that it has become scary.


Agreed. You can still be a good husband, father and lover and not be a doormat. My wife is fond of saying I am the nicest a$$hole she knows. You just have to learn how to balance the nice guy with the a$$hole. Whenever we have any issue that bothers me, I bring it up to my wife and we discuss what we need to do to fix the issue. I don't let the issue slide or get sweeped under the carpet. 

Most importantly I never whine, cajole or beg. I simply state what I need/want and work with her to find a common ground. I will compromise on resolutions, but I will NOT compromise on an issue when nothing gets done about it. She does the same thing for me.

In our decade + of marriage, I can't think of any type of issues that went unresolved for more then a few weeks. It's because we refuse to let an issue just die on the vine. It's when these issues are allowed to fester is when they grow and take over a marriage. Nip in the bud quickly, it's always easier to deal with an issue when it's new!


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

cbd2010 said:


> We talked about it a few months ago, and he said he didn't really care anymore. I'm not sure I entirely believe that, but of course, I'm not going to argue. He does work ridiculous hours, and we're never home or awake at the same time, but I rather doubt he's given up on it entirely.


He doesn't care for sex anymore or he's given up trying to get sex from you? If it's the 1st one then you both need help to see what the problem is.

If it's option #2 then he's already said F*** this and I'll just find it somewhere else.

You're in a downward spiral of death for your marriage. For my wife, I always think back to when we were both 18yrs old and going at it like rabbits. I remember what excited me about her, smell, touch or whatever she did that would set my hormones off and make me hunt her down like a shark sensing blood in the water.

Wife used to give the pity sex when we were down to having sex once a month not too long ago. I would get on, finish up or not even go at all cuz her just laying there wasn't cutting it. Talked it out, found out the problems that was causing her to resent me and making her start to slowly withdraw from me emotionally which affected our sexual life also.

Once we resolved those issues, I changed some of my more irritating traits and she toned down a little on her sharp tongue (Chinese wife, and yes it's true what they say about them. Those stories are based on some truth lol). Now we have sex at least 2 times a week, have introduced sex toys into the mix also and she soaks up the sheet after every encounter. Heck sometimes after 30 minutes or more she's yelling uncle. But she's a trooper at times and will let me go until I can finish up.

Communication is the key to a healthy marriage. Coming from an Asian background it was very, very tough for the both of us to open up to each other about our problems. We grew up with parents who showed little emotion towards each other and that was just the way it is. Well that just doesn't work anymore in the modern age.


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## Boogsie (Aug 24, 2010)

cbd2010 said:


> Boogsie,
> 
> I understand what you are saying. In this situation, though, I'm often the doormat - I am the reliable, dependable one who takes care of everything (and trust me - he is NOT the type to be treated as a doormat - if he doesn't want to do something, he makes no bones about it, and I have no problem with that). He goes to work, earns a paycheck, comes home. That's it. I take care of everything in the household. Because of his work schedule (and mine) I don't see him during the week, and on the weekends he's so exhausted he sleeps until noon (I'm usually up at 6). So we don't really see each other much.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I am definitely not blaming him for any of this... just pointing out some other factors.


Ok, so this isn't a case of "nice guy" this appears to be "nice girl". Same advice though. If you want it to work you are going to have to stand up for yourself and clearly state your needs. If you want out, then get out. If he's not willing to meet your needs, don't stay or you will just end up miserable and wasting years of your life.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

cbd2010, nothing wrong with you. You are behaving exactly like a woman is going to behave. I hope all good men on this board having sexless issues will read your post to understand the woman perspective.

Sympathy sex, no slamming here, that is dishonesty only.

Boogsie is right on the mark, with no respect there is no sexual atraction, and that starts with a man not being a doormat. But the point is, that is only where it starts.

The man is needing to stand for himself, but more important, in his relationship to light his woman on fire, and not to neglect this to his misery, and that is simply this: A woman is going to only be as sexual to her man, as he is making her feel.

If the man is neglecting this, not lighting her fire, showing he is content to live without sex from his woman, this is much worse than any doormat, it will build contempt and resentment in a woman, so terrible that she will not even want him to touch her or be in the same room as her. 

A woman is expecting her man to show he desires her, finds her attractive and sexual. And woe be such a man when he drops the ball on this, and the fire in a woman is not light but instead dry and neglected, when some other man does come along to show interest. What a fire in such a woman will he light!

So this situation is just this exactly. 

THese scenarios, I have dozens and dozens of times, even to the point of a woman questining whether she is even any more going to feel sexual to a man, and instead will be content to be as a nun, only to have her switched indeed thrown by some other man to make her head over heels absolutely on fire! Do not miss this.

So the solution, not just for the husband to stop being a doormat, but to identify and overcome his own resentment, or confusion, as to why he is not interesting in communicating to his woman his sexul appetites, and then work on the actions, behavior, and attitude to communicate this to his woman.

Somewhere in this relationship there is resentment in the man towards his woman. Find it and kill it to start to fix this.

I wish you well.


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## cbd2010 (Aug 19, 2010)

cheatinghubby,

His response , the last time we talked about it, was, and I quote - "Whatever - it's really not a big deal anymore. Maybe 5 years ago, but it doesn't really bother me now. I'm too tired anyway to worry about it" (the latter referring to his work schedule).

You're right about communication - which is not something he does really well, at least not about serious things. He tends to treat anything really important as a joke - unless it's important to him. We do talk, though...

BigBadWolf, I appreciate your thoughts. The only thing that's difficult here is that he has expressed his interest (well, until recently) - I know he's attracted to me, but even when he does express it, it doesn't light that fire. It hasn't for years.

I am definitely not saying he's a bad person - hardly. I'll freely shoulder my portion of the blame. But I am just not physically attracted to him - not in the least bit - and that has, I think, taken its toll on both of us.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I don't view it as sympathy sex at all. When I make love to my wife, my principle object isn't to please myself but to please her. I get a lot more out of getting her off than getting off myself. What's more caring than doing something for your partner even when you don't feel like it (as long as it's done in a spirit of love without resentment) If both partners consistently viewed sex as something they did to serve their partner, both would be well taken care of. 
I guess in my mind, when I got married I assumed the responsibility for my wife's sexual fulfillment (among other things). If I don't want to do that "job", who would I prefer do it?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Yeah, I get what unbelievable has said, even though it's a subtle point.

I too get off on having my partner get off. . .so I read the OP's post and it's really just kinda foreign to me, like saying, 

"*I* don't feel like having sex. *I* am not attracted to him. *I* don't get pleasure. *My* drive is nil."

And honestly, I am not saying the self-centered perspective is necessarily wrong. . .this isn't meant to sound like a criticism. . .it's just not something I really identify with in thinking. I don't orgasm every time I have sex now but I genuinely care if my partner was/is interested, whether she was pleased, and the whole "quong", from beginning to end. I suppose if years drag on, yes, finally, I can and did show some selfishness.

I can recall all the years in my ending marriage we would discuss this and she would say how she wasn't getting her needs met (a common deflection) - really, I look back and it was all about her and if I gave into her demands (which I admit, I didnt'), well, then she'd be horny.

But I didn't think like that. I mean, there were times she was a marginal mother, a marginal housekeeper, a spendthrift vs. a saver, everyone who knows her says she's downright spoiled and all these reasons I could point to her being a bad wife. . .but I didn't want to not have sex with her either.

I still loved her.

You see the disconnect? It was about me wanting to connect with her as a person, not as her "role" (mother, spouse, housekeeper)?

Do you see how it's hard for the sexual and asexual to connect with the 

"You aren't meeting my needs" argument?

My needs totally weren't met but I didn't not desire my wife.


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## Boogsie (Aug 24, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> I don't view it as sympathy sex at all. When I make love to my wife, my principle object isn't to please myself but to please her. I get a lot more out of getting her off than getting off myself. What's more caring than doing something for your partner even when you don't feel like it (as long as it's done in a spirit of love without resentment) If both partners consistently viewed sex as something they did to serve their partner, both would be well taken care of.
> I guess in my mind, when I got married I assumed the responsibility for my wife's sexual fulfillment (among other things). If I don't want to do that "job", who would I prefer do it?


When you nag and she gives in to you. Its pity / Sympathy / SFTU and stop bothering me sex. Don't kid yourself. You don't have sex with her to please her. Pleasing her would be NOT having sex with her. The sex having is for you. How can you make someone happy by giving them something they obviously don't want? I'll agree that in a good, healthy marriage, both partners would want to see the other fulfilled and satisfied. You go out of your way a little for that one that you love because you love them.

You really need to stop the care taking and let her fend for herself at times. Really, how can you expect to take care of her needs and keep her happy when you can't even look after your own?

If you really want to help youself, go pick up a book call No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover. Don't be dismayed by the title. It doesn't teach you to be an ass.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> It doesn't teach you to be an ass.


Yes, I have the rights to that book.


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## cbd2010 (Aug 19, 2010)

I can certainly see how what I wrote seems (and, to some degree, probably is) selfish and self-centered. Don't get me wrong - I completely understand that he's on the losing end of this one. I feel bad - I honestly do - but not enough to have sex. Because, in part, in my mind it would be just that - sex. Not making love, not something intimate - just sex. And I don't think that's fair. Is that selfish? Probably, but it's how I feel. 

It definitely doesn't have anything to do with my needs not being met - at least, I don't think it does (we'll deal with subconscious stuff later). I am not deliberately withholding, nor do I ever feel or think that if he did x, y, or z that all of a sudden I'd want to have sex w/him, or that if he changed who he was or how he acted I'd want him more. There are times (not always, admittedly) when we have a lot of fun together, when we enjoy each other's company, and when I'm thankful for his friendship and love. But those things don't translate to a physical attraction for me.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

cbd,



> I can certainly see how what I wrote seems (and, to some degree, probably is) selfish and self-centered.


You are being honest and I appreciate that.

I know sex and mating is a complex subject anyway. 

Did you know they did a study and women have more orgasms from rich men than from middle class/poor men? One woman wrote, "Makes sense to me."

To a guy working on erections, foreplay, oral, whatever. . .it makes no sense. 

But it *does* on a superficial level.

Guys are no better.

It's like the guy saying after the wife has had 3 kids and put on some weight, "I'm not attracted to you anymore." It's self-centered and superficial - "I need xyz to feel desire."

So. . .it is what it is too.

So I am honestly not blaming you for your self-centeredness in this. I only note it's hard for me to identify. . .maybe it's because I work healthcare so I am thinking about others all day. . .not sure. 

And like you note, I wouldn't really want to be having pity sex anyway. I know you can't help it.

So. . .if you feel this way, why doesn't one of you just end it? Especially with no kids?

So, if it is what is, why dont you just do the both of you a favor and just end it?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

You know. . .I have to say something. . .being here has really helped me grow as a person. I want to thank EVERY poster for their contributions to this as I exited my marriage. It's made me all the wiser.

This discussion, and I don't know why, gets me to thinking about teh complex relationship between love and respect between spouses.

I used to love and respect my wife. I had her on a pedestal like unbeleivable. But I was a puppy dog like he was and it got me no where. Certainly no respect or love back.

I am sure she loved me on some level (like cbd does love her husband on some level) but didn't respect me. I think this showed by how often she complained about the lack of respect from me (and I would pull my hair out trying to figure out what I was doing. . .it became a subtle form of abuse after awhile).

Anyway, now that I have left her and I showed her I mean absolute business, she has shown me a lot of respect. She may not Love me, she may even hate me. But the respect *is definitely there.* I can sense it when she talks to me and addresses me.

It's nice. Almost, no. . .actually just as good as sex.

But now. . .here's the funny thing. . .I don't respect her any more. Like you, cbd, I know I should (like you should want to have sex with your husband) resepct her.

I even can hear the forum here saying, "But Scannerguard. . .you HAVE to respect her. . .she's the mother of your children."

But I don't. 

And I don't know why either. To just hear authorities/society say that. . .well, it's not enough.

It's like I just think, "Gee whiz. . .any woman can spread her legs and give forth my offspring. It doesn't take a lot of talent." Ugly, huh? Ouch, huh? Well, it's the way I feel.

Believe me, like you, I feel guilty for thinking that. . .but I just do. But lately, those feelings have been easing up and I respect the job she does. At times, I don't. Maybe it's the anger but that is 60-70% better honestly. . .it's just the respect went to 0 and is now only at 20% maybe.

Anyway, like you, I do understand the ability to only control your feelings so much.


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## cbd2010 (Aug 19, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> I even can hear the forum here saying, "But Scannerguard. . .you HAVE to respect her. . .she's the mother of your children."


This is interesting - because I absolutely would not say that. That's not enough of a reason to respect someone, in my opinion.

I respect my husband, but only partly. I respect him for his intellect - he's incredibly smart - and for the work he does, 'cause he is really good at it and is making a name for himself in his field. Which is awesome, in my opinion, and I'm thrilled that he's found something he enjoys doing and that is rewarding to him. However, I don't respect his personality (if that makes sense). He's conceited - he knows he's smart, and likes to show off - and while that doesn't bother me personally, 'cause I'm frankly pretty darn smart myself - it really annoys me when he does it to other people. He also has no respect for others - for their situations or troubles or viewpoints - which makes me respect him less. It's almost as though the things he does that annoy me personally may be obnoxious at the time, but they don't tend to get to me long-term (I am definitely not the type to carry grudges), yet if he can't be respectful and considerate of others - well, then... (and this goes for anyone - if you can't be openminded and at least HEAR what people have to say, then I am going to have a very hard time respecting you).

Ok - there were just too many "respects" in that paragraph, and it was a bit OT, but your comment did get me thinking...

As for just ending it - well, we've talked about it. Like many of our conversations/issues, he didn't seem to take it too seriously. But we did discuss it. It's possible we will. It's also possible we will work through some of the other issues we face. But I don't know if we can work through this one. I mean, if I'm not attracted to him - if I don't want to have sex with him - wouldn't that frustrate him just as much as it does me? Is that something that we both would want to live with for the next 35-40 years? I just don't know.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

T/J here.....

Scannerguard,

You are the reason I became a member. I lurked for a while and decided to join after reading a post you wrote. I have tremendous respect for you and the struggles you have gone through. 

I do have a question though...as a woman, what you wrote stung a bit. The part about any woman can open her legs. I opened my legs because I love him. During the really dark times of our marriage my husband treated me with sort of the same "respect" if you will. Kind of like, well you had them....so what? Does that make you special? It really hurt. At that time my friend told me about a great quote: "A man shows ultimate love to his children by honoring their Mother". I have no idea who wrote that. I guess I am curious about your take on this. What I mean is, isn't showing or giving respect part of honor? Isn't honoring your childrens mother what is best for them? Please don't take that the wrong way as I am not trying to antagonize you in any way. I just wanted your thoughts on this as it has been hard for me to understand. We are in a MUCH better place now (nearly 17 years later) but parts still sting.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

CBD,
What caused you to transition from frequent - good sex before marriage to loss of attraction? 

I ask this because unless his appearance changed a lot during that time - maybe he gained a lot of weight - it seems likely your attraction to him died as a result of your interaction with him. Or more directly as a result of his behavior. 

For example - I am exceptionally funny. However I do not joke/make light of subjects that are serious or important to my W. Sometimes I will use self deprecating humor to break the tension but frankly I do that because it works - not to entertain myself. 

So my question for you is this. Did he behaviorally "kill" your desire for him and if so how? I believe that often it is the behavior outside the bedroom that kills love/passion more completely than the lack of a 12 inch "wand" or the stamina of a marathoner.... 

Perhaps answering this question this can help you select a more compatible partner to breed with. 




cbd2010 said:


> cheatinghubby,
> 
> His response , the last time we talked about it, was, and I quote - "Whatever - it's really not a big deal anymore. Maybe 5 years ago, but it doesn't really bother me now. I'm too tired anyway to worry about it" (the latter referring to his work schedule).
> 
> ...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

cbd,

I guess I don't "get it". You are obviously physically able to engage in many different forms of sexual activity with your husband but you don't wish to. How is that not deliberately withholding? 

Boogsie,

Let's see how I explain this... I have been deployed twice and am living proof that I can go without sex for 14-15 months, at least with no real ill effect. My problem is I have sense enough to know our marriage isn't going to be happy and fulfilling without it. If I just wanted to get laid, that'd be the easiest thing in the world. I want to have a long, peaceful, successful marriage and that requires intimacy. If my wife didn't feel hungry for days on end, I'd still see that she ate something because it's important for her survival. Anyone who doesn't have a screw loose craves intimacy, so when we don't crave intimacy, something is wrong. Ignoring it doesn't make it better. 
I do things for my wife not because I'm scared of her or because I expect a payoff but because she's my wife. It's my job. She doesn't expect it from me but I expect it from me. I do things for my kids, too. I'm "dad" whether they are being nice or not. Likewise, I'm a husband and caring for my wife is more of a statement about me than a statement about her. I don't withhold food from my dog if she soils the carpet. I care for what's mine because it's my job. Even out here on the job, I treat everyone with respect and that includes those who cuss me. It's what I expect of myself. My wife made promises, too. Whether she lives up to her end or not is completely up to her and she'll have to answer to the Allmighty someday the same as I will. Certainly, there is a point beyond which I'm not willing to go. I finally reached that point with my ex. Right now, my wife is either unwilling or unable to give more than maybe 30%. To keep things going, I have to step up and fill in the gap. Someday, I may be weak and my wife will have to step up. I think those who have been married 50+ years didn't get that way because they married perfect people but because they weathered difficult times and were just too stubborn to quit.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Unbelievable - I can really relate to the last part of your post. 

My husband said something in the car when we were with his brother and nephew that really stuck with me and echo's your sentiment in closing your post.

He told his brother "I've run my marriage into the ground and the only reason I still have one is because of her and the fact that she has weathered all of my issues and is too stubborn to give up and quit. I wouldn't have a marriage without her."

Now of course, being a man's man (as he likes to call it), he would never had said that directly to me - but he did say it in front of me and he's right. There have been a lot of issues, especially recently with his major health problems, brain injury, etc., and I am TOO DAMN stubborn to quit - I love that man and I'm not going to just quit and walk away - I can't.

And I am trying hard to weather the "sex issue" that has reared its ugly head (his lack of passion towards me). I think it too, is what has been happening outside of the bedroom that is affecting things within the bedroom. I also believe he has pulled away some emotionally and has to get that closeness back to feel more connected. A lot of men like to make us believe that it's all about the physical act of sex, but I'm finding out that they also need and want some emotional connection, but don't want to admit it or put it out there as it shows weakness.

Damn that male ego - it sure would make things easier on us gals if it wasn't in the way sometimes!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

So you don't want your husband, actively cheat on him, and actually believe him when he tells you he is too tired?

What I think is going on is that he knows you don't want him so he is not even going to let you know you are wounding him. so he expresses complete disinterest in you.

Not so hard to see why.

I think you ought to grant him some mercy for your lack of interest and set him free.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> T/J here.....
> 
> Scannerguard,
> 
> You are the reason I became a member. I lurked for a while and decided to join after reading a post you wrote. I have tremendous respect for you and the struggles you have gone through.


Wow. What a nice thing to say. I really appreciate it and thank you. 

I am sure though that my struggles are only typical of what any man or woman goes through in a painful divorce.



> I do have a question though...as a woman, what you wrote stung a bit. The part about any woman can open her legs. I opened my legs because I love him. During the really dark times of our marriage my husband treated me with sort of the same "respect" if you will. Kind of like, well you had them....so what? Does that make you special? It really hurt. At that time my friend told me about a great quote: "A man shows ultimate love to his children by honoring their Mother". I have no idea who wrote that. I guess I am curious about your take on this. What I mean is, isn't showing or giving respect part of honor?


Well, you are right. . .what I wrote, although true (at times. . .sometimes I don't feel that way - the feelings in divorce are incredibly pendulous). . .is UGLY.

I have no way of sugarcoating it - my sudden disrespect for her is ugly of me. But it is what it is. 

Just like cbd wrote, "The idea of having sex with my husband creeps me out." (I may be paraphrasing, not sure). . .strikes me as rather ugly too.

But it is what it is. I am sure she's not happy about feeling that way and honestly, neither am I. I don't like walking around feeling this way about the mother of my children or my stb-x.

I am slowly working through it.



> Isn't honoring your childrens mother what is best for them? Please don't take that the wrong way as I am not trying to antagonize you in any way. I just wanted your thoughts on this as it has been hard for me to understand. We are in a MUCH better place now (nearly 17 years later) but parts still sting.


Yes, intellectually I know that. . .and actually even part of my heart knows that. Maybe the anger needs to be washed away for the respect to build back up. I am not sure.

I am still working through it.

I guess I feel that I have little respect for her because she chose to not love the father of her children, that she chose to not work on the marriage for their sake, for a lot of choices she made in the marriage so because of those choices (most of all, the choice to just be happy), I simply don't respect her. (well, like I said, it's slowly coming back - I would say 6 months ago, it was at 0, it's slowly coming back, mainly by treating me with respect, she's getting it)

I don't think our kids are mistreated in any way, shape or form, she provides for them physically, intellectually, and emotionally to a great degree (although they seem to crave the emotional stability from me) but I don't know. . .she's "supposed to do that." No?

It's would just be like me saying, "Hey, I post date 13 checks every quarter to my wife so she never goes without any child support. She can just go over to her desk, whip out a current check, and she has the money. Now. . .give me a cookie."

Well. . .I am *supposed *to do that, right? She's not supposed to ask me every single week for a check, right? I don't get any more respect from the courts or society because I make my child support payments even though, what is it, 30-40% of dads are late/default on child support? Would that earn me points with the Judge? I sincerely doubt it. And I don't expect any more respect. I even think Father's Day is a farce in a way. I am supposed to get recognized for what I am supposed to do? Father my children? I suppose it's okay to celebrate our fathers though and our love for them and I do beleive in gratitude.

I don't know. . .those are my thoughts, the good, the bad, and I am sure, the ugly.

I can see how it can sting, just like hearing a wife (cbd) saying having sex with her husband creeps her out, like he's some kind of pervert touching her or something. I don't like reading that as a man so I just thought I would share some of the opposite gender-like thoughts and open up.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

cbd2010 said:


> As for just ending it - well, we've talked about it. Like many of our conversations/issues, he didn't seem to take it too seriously. But we did discuss it.


1. Be honest with yourself and figure out all the things you don't like in your husband. All of them, everything that you find unattractive. If you know what attracts you in a man, compare those qualities to what your husband has to offer.

2. Did he ever hurt you, humiliate you with anything? Any deep down wounds that your unconscious mind recorded yet you haven't consciously held as a grudge?

3. If you say that sex with your husband creeps you out, this is not lack of attraction....it's actually close to disgust. A feeling that powerful is clearly inspired by something. Rules of nature are simple....we are repulsed by anything that we perceive bad for us(that hurt us, that isn't compatible with us), attracted to anything that we find good. You mentioned earlier that him being a smart guy all the time doesn't affect you personally because you know you're smart yourself. But do you feel like he believes you're smart? Does his opinion of you affect you in any way? 
If you were bored for example, and didn't find him that attractive, you'd possibly avoid sex but not be creeped out by it. You'd have probably used the word 'chore' for it. Makes sense?

4. Get him to treat discussions as serious. He has a lot of resentment stacked. Because you're depriving him of something quite important, his respect is probably low for you too. You don't make a lot of effort for someone you perceive as not giving anything in return (when i say 'not giving anything' i mean, people are completely focused on problems and they forget their partners are giving something because they can only see what's lacking). Unless you reach a point where he respects conversations with you, nothing will change. You could even try to be straight to the point and not polite at all, explain how you simply dislike him and want to work on your marriage. That might freak him out and cause him to pay attention. 

My husband has about the same issues you have, yet he claims he's not attracted to anyone at all (while i fear he'll run across a special someone who'll open his mind, just like you did). We made huge progress mainly because i started listening to what was bothering him. It helped a lot that he was open minded and decided to notice that i was changing. Turns out most of the things that were bothering him came out of my resentment and weren't part of my personality per say. Which is why at the beginning we got along fine then along the road some frustrations set in and we started behaving differently. Also went from sex once a 'year' to sex three times the last month. Still have tons of work to do, obviously and i can't help but frequently ask him whether he's enjoying or simply doing it because i kept asking for it. Another interesting twist is that the less sex is a problem, the less i'm desperate for it, which gives me the time to actually want to form a bond with my husband, take care of him, get to know him better etc. Damage that we did to this marriage during several years, will be fixed in most likely several years. But it's quite possible and worth it, at least for some people. You have to figure out if it's worth it for you.


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## cbd2010 (Aug 19, 2010)

MEM11363,

You asked what caused the transition from frequent-good sex before marriage to the loss of attraction - and the honest answer is, I don't know. His appearance did not change all that much, so yes, it's probably more of a behavioral thing. However, I quite frankly don't know what has changed behaviorally.

Actually, that's not entirely true. In some ways I feel like he has not changed at all from before we got married. When he was 20, he seemed pretty mature for his age. However, to me, he seems to be stuck at 20. I know that I have changed significantly over the past 15 years - I can name a lot of differences in my outlook and behavior (both good and bad) that have come about over that time. But it often seems like he's just the same - and that while his behavior and attitude didn't bother me then, it does now, because of my own changes. I know that's not true (that he's not changed) - everyone changes over time, and certainly as they go through their 20s - but sometimes it sure seems that way.

Nekko, 

You raise some good points. I have actually sat down and tried to list the things that I do and don't like about my husband, and what other things attract me in a man. It's not easy to do, especially since I haven't really thought about it (at least, not consciously!) for so long!

He has never hurt me physically, ever. However, yes, he does put me down sometimes - certainly not maliciously, nor has he ever said anything that's outright cruel or harsh - but he will often make jokes at my expense in front of other people - and yes, that bothers me a lot, for two reasons: 1) needless to say, I don't appreciate being made fun of by my spouse, and 2) I don't care for ANYONE who makes fun of other people, or stereotypes, or says nasty things about others. I cannot stand people who won't consider the feelings of others. 

For example: some months ago, his office had an all-staff dinner; spouses were invited. During the dinner, some of the younger members of the staff started making snide remarks about people who lived in a certain part of town (the 'wrong side of the tracks', if you will). What made me ABSOLUTELY furious is that there were three wait staff in the room, and it is quite possible, and even likely, that one or more of them might live in that neighborhood. And absolutely no-one there gave a damn about the fact that someone might be offended by what they said - nor, in fact, did they think that what they said was even offensive. When I tried to explain to him later that evening why that made me so angry, he just didn't understand, and rolled his eyes at me.

Which, in some ways, gets at your fourth point - getting him to treat discussions as serious. Trust me - I have tried. That has never been his way - even before things started degrading between us. While you may very well be right, and some of it is due to his own resentment, it's also just part of his personality - as it is for a number of members of his family (I think it's genetic). You should see them interacting with each other - yeesh.

I've spent some time over the past couple of days reading Hendrix's "Getting the Love You Want", and I may ask my husband to read it too. It's been interesting to gauge my own reaction to the book - some of it completely makes sense, and some of it makes me say "are you kidding? I don't THINK so!".

Anyway - while this thread has gotten a bit off the original topic, I appreciate everyone's comments - thank you!


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## cbd2010 (Aug 19, 2010)

Scannerguard,

You are absolutely right - saying that the idea of sex with my husband creeps me out IS ugly - horribly so. But it's honest. And no, I absolutely am not happy about feeling that way. If I didn't care, it would be a lot easier - I'd probably just walk away. But I do care. 

It probably bothered me less when I believed that I just didn't have any sort of libido, because I wasn't attracted to anyone at all. However, once I realized that someone out there DID light that fire, it really made me start wondering what was happening between my husband and I, and whether it was something that could be fixed - or if I wanted to fix it at all (and yes, I realize it's not as simple as that). That's something I am still working through.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard,
Thank you for your response. I do get it. Respect is double sided. I still hurt a bit in my marriage (right now alot in fact) so feeling so much of the past kind of brought up bad memories in me. It's MY issue. I thank you for your candor. 

cbd2010,
You never felt attraction for your husband? Why did you marry him? Is this a lacking in physical attraction or is it his personality?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

CBD2010,

Just because some guy seems attractive to you today doesn't mean he still will 5-10 years from now. You won't be the same person and neither will he. People change, their needs change, and love does change. "New" sex is really exciting, probably because both parties are able to focus only on that and don't depend on each other for anything else, really. "Old" sex can sometimes be less about physical animal attraction and more about appreciation and nurturing. One's not necessarily better, just different. I'm in sort of a drought at the moment and even on my best day, I'm not any kind of expert. Just saying...I wouldn't compare an unknown with a known and make value judgments based on how tingly someone makes you feel from afar today. There are lots of very sexy women in the world but could I live with them? This guy might look or seem pretty good, but he's got flaws just like everyone else. 
You probably look really good to this guy, too, but you have flaws, too. Wish I had a nickle for every person I've met who left a relationship, thinking they deserved a better deal and then later regretted it. There is no ball, no pumpkin, no Prince Charming, no glass slippers. No luck or magic involved. I think all successful relationships are the result of two people struggling to make it work.


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