# Gutpunch's Journal



## GutPunch

DDay Oct 12, 2012

My wife and I were married in 2001 and had our first child in 2006 and another in 2009. However, after the second child was born, I think she may have had some depression and an illness creep in around the time she went back to work. She being in healthcare, she had easy access to presciption opiates and stimulants. This is where she became addicted right under my nose.

This continued for two years... i thought it was caused by some unrelated illness she has. Then Feb of this year its off to the ER because she run out of pills. What a disturbing site the shaking and seizure like symptoms. However, I am still clueless. ER just gives her more pills.

She finally tells her family (DAD is a doctor) and she comes clean to me. Begs me not to leave her. Dad gets her thru the withdrawls and she begins seeing a counselor. Well...In my feeble little mind everything is fixed.

As you could imagine, someone on drugs for that long is not emotionally meeting my needs or her own for that matter. Here comes the depression. I swear my wife got to a point where everything in the world including me and the kids were depressing. It was like the drugs took her ability to be happy away. I just wait patiently for her to snap out of it. 

September I discover the text messages and finally put 2 and 2 together that she is having an EA with online guy at drug rehab site. Oct 12 I discover they are to meet and tell her to stop and do the right thing for her kids sake. She leaves with toddler screaming "Don't go Mommy" ...and I go into shock!


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## the guy

Sounds like abandonment so act occurdingly by packing her things up and either store them or bring them to her fathers. When she gets back tell her she is no longer welcome and make her face the consequences for walking away in the hopes it doesn't happen again. Once you can confirm that all contact has stopped with other man, then she can return home.

Sure it sounds over the top but isn't leaving her babies over the top? You can't nice your way out of this affair. It needs to be exposed and do the research on OM and if he has a family then expose the affair.

Start making this affair inconvienent and uncomfortable. Until OM is out of the picture the marriage is toast.


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## GutPunch

She came back the following Sunday and I put her up in a hotel and she has since leased a new apartment. Went bought all new furniture, tvs, computer, bed and bunk beds for the kids. The posOM seems to be out of the picture as she told me it wasn't real. However, I quit spying when I read the 180. I have pretty much stuck to that since after the first week. Doesn't seem to get her attention though. I think she really is excited about bachelorette pad, no husband, no kids, no responsibility. At least I have my self respect right.


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## Hermes

I am sorry that you are here. You will find this forum to be very helpful during this time. A lot of us are going through very similar situations as you. Be prepared for a lot of advice that is going to be VERY counter intuitive to what you think you should do.

A few questions:

1. Did she move out, or are you both still living together?
2. Did you confront her about the text messages? I know you said you told her to stop. 

To me, she went from one drug to the next. She was addicated to prescription medicine to now being addicted to the "high" that the affair brings. 

I hate to say it, but you will be in for a long ride here. There is not much you can do. 

Is this guy single? Married? Do you know him?

First thing is to start the 180. This is for you, not her. 

Next, get evidence of the affair. Get a VAR, put it in her car. Check her phone, email, facebook, etc. Once you have enough evidence, expose the affair to everyone. Family, friends, coworkers, etc. 

Read the following, as well.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html


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## Dewayne76

This is true. I've spoken privately to many members here and elsewhere, you'd be surprised how many turned things around by just letting go. However, most of them, it was when they TRULY let go. So you have to be serious with it. 

Don't do it to get them back however, it's all about you. YOU!! You will not be able to handle this alone. Get books. Get some friends closer, stay on here for support. Get counseling if you can. 

It's gonna be a long haul but we're here for you GP.


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## Hermes

She is going to be excited. She is acting like a teenager again. She gets to go out, have fun, no responsibilities. Of course, she will be happy. Let her go. You can not do anything to change her mind about this. Work on you and be the best father you can be. Your kids need at least one parent looking out for them. Let her go. She will see the grass is not greener. 

There are a few things that I do when ever I talk to my stbxw. Make it a habit to think these things during each interaction.

1. Will what I am about to say/do push her away, bring her closer or be neutral?

If push her away, do not do it.

2. Be calm, cool and dispassionate. 

You do not need her. Act like it.


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## GutPunch

She has moved out. I agree the affair was another way to get high. I do not know him personally but I do know his name. Put phone number in facebook and pop there he was. I have collected tons of evidence (drugs/PA) and have paid my retainer to the attorney. I have been on the 180 pretty much the whole time. Only a few slip-ups in the very beginning. Sharing a blanket at my sons football game cause it was cold....Barf!


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## NoWhere

Drugs and a OM. I'm sure two went hand in hand. I think alcohol was partly to blame for the situation I'm in. Just try and do the 180, hold your head up high and be strong. How anyone can put themselves and 'feeling good' ahead of children is beyond me.


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## Hermes

GutPunch said:


> She has moved out. I agree the affair was another way to get high. I do not know him personally but I do know his name. Put phone number in facebook and pop there he was. I have collected tons of evidence (drugs/PA) and have paid my retainer to the attorney. I have been on the 180 pretty much the whole time. Only a few slip-ups in the very beginning. Sharing a blanket at my sons football game cause it was cold....Barf!


I think you got this. 

Let her own her chaos. 

Are you in counseling?


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## the guy

Push that divorce thru and get out there and find a good women, I think your owed one after the crap you went thru. Now is the time to go out and do all the things you couldn't when the old ball and chain was holding down. 
Please don't tell me you still have the frilly trow pillows on the bed? LOL. Start working on fixing up the place the way you want it and raise that attraction level by working on your self.

You got some real young kids there....what kid of support do you have with regards to having someone watch them so you can go out and start meeting poeple?


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## GutPunch

Counseling every Wed. I could have never imagined the pain being so bad for so long. It's worse than a death for me. She is a train wreck, Why do I miss her so? She does now get the kids ever Wed. 3-7 and every other weekend. HA HA she will now be the fun grandparent


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## the guy

Stop letting your wifes crap define you, get out and see there are alot of good and emotionally healthy poeple out there.

Let me guess daddy bought the apartment?


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## GutPunch

Actually the STBXW very successfull dealing with pills. One for me one for you. LOL She will be able to live it up with no mortgage, bills, kids, etc. She already pays me good faith child support. Its gonna be a lot harder for her to hit rock bottom. She is also super attractive and makes a lot of money.


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## lostinspaces

Sounds like my stbxw - attractive, excellent income and loving the excitement of having no marriage responsibilities, just no kid and mine is having a EA/PA. 

What I'm learning is that all I can do is let go. Nothing I do will *make* her change her mind. If she does it will because she found out the grass wasn't greener. I just hope I won't want anything to do with her when/if that moment comes. 

With your kids I would just tweak the above to say: concentrate on yourself and them. Be an awesome father and man. Your kids will idolize you for your strength and one day a woman who deserves you will as well.


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## Hermes

How are you doing today GP?


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## GutPunch

I have had a rough couple of days. See my IC at 11:00 today. Went to the dentist for a six month check up decided to get teeth whitening done. I would not of done that if I was still with the ex. 

The hardest part for me is letting go. I have always been a type A personality and this drama is causing my body to redline in car speak. 

I did go out with an old girlfriend on a strictly platonic date. Man did we have a blast. However, when it was time to go home I got really really down. Don't know if I was ready for that.

STBXW meeting this evening to exchange kids. She doesn't know what the 180 is but she is a Bruce Lee like zen master of it without even knowing. I have got to quit holding on.


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## angelpixie

I hate to suggest this, GP, but you may not know the whole story on her behavior. You should get a full STD test done. Sorry you're dealing with this. It's really hard to see them acting like they're enjoying 'freedom' when your heart is breaking and you're trying to be the responsible parent. Just don't do what I did and keep the home fires burning. Take care of yourself and your kids first.


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## Dewayne76

Now you're talking my language GP. Cars and Mr. Lee, Bruuuce Lee. 

We all have to quit holding on. You're not alone brother.


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## GutPunch

I am so glad for counseling. I suggest nobody go thru this without counseling. She turned my whole day around.


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## Chuck71

GP-Always keep in mind, the higher the high....the farther the fall. I'm sure she has this idea she has everything under control. When the walls come down, everything crumbles. No amount of money, medical knowledge or attractiveness can stop it from occurring. Have yourself ready when she returns.....then choice will be yours


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## GutPunch

We will see about that Chuck. She seems to have things right where she wants them (no responsibility or kids). All the blame centered in the correct place (me I'm the reason shes miserable). And to top it off, all this madness occurred after she had gotten clean (maybe) for 6 months. Immediately, I went dark and have been hovering 180 ever since. To me it seems that ordinary life is an emotional death sentence to her. However, to me having 2 children ages 3 and 6 is the most precious gift I could have ever received. I lived with a drug addict for 2 years and was still happy cause of my kids.


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## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> We will see about that Chuck. She seems to have things right where she wants them (no responsibility or kids). All the blame centered in the correct place (me I'm the reason shes miserable). And to top it off, all this madness occurred after she had gotten clean (maybe) for 6 months. Immediately, I went dark and have been hovering 180 ever since. To me it seems that ordinary life is a emotional death sentence to her. However, to me having 2 children ages 3 and 6 is the most precious gift I could have ever received. I lived with a drug addict for 2 years and was still happy cause of my kids.


GP, your def. not alone brotha. I have 2 kids 3 & 1.5, my W just quit the M 9/18/12. Decided she was done. She blames me for everything, of course. Now she is living with mom. Her mom bought her new car for $24K, she has her business (which i and my family funded to start), she can go shopping and spend spend spend whenever she wants, she can go party with her freinds when i have the kids, she is free to enjoy the single life.

I am like you, 180 and NC, planning on going REAL dark soon. 

At some point she will hit rock bottom after flying so high for so long. Just recently a close friend of mine W decided to come back after a little over a year! She had A for the 2nd time. He said HELL NO!


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## GutPunch

Good for him! HELL NO is right.


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## Too Little Too Late?

HiRoad said:


> GP, your def. not alone brotha. I have 2 kids 3 & 1.5, my W just quit the M 9/18/12. Decided she was done. She blames me for everything, of course. Now she is living with mom. Her mom bought her new car for $24K, she has her business (which i and my family funded to start), she can go shopping and spend spend spend whenever she wants, she can go party with her freinds when i have the kids, she is free to enjoy the single life.
> 
> I am like you, 180 and NC, planning on going REAL dark soon.
> 
> At some point she will hit rock bottom after flying so high for so long. Just recently a close friend of mine W decided to come back after a little over a year! She had A for the 2nd time. He said HELL NO!


Do you guys really think they all come back at some point? Mine seems to flying on cloud 9 with the rebound posUm. We have 3 kids. posUm has none. says she is in love with him after 3 mos.


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## HiRoad

absolutely! My friends XW told him over dinner on a halmark card that she was having an A. She ended up moving out, and saying she loved the OM.! He filed all the paperwork, got the D moving and final 8 mnths ago. 

Big suprise the OM did not work out!! Shocker. THen what did she do, go out and find another OM, 15 yrs older than her. 

So 2 wks ago she shows up at his door step, she is crying and they talk, she asks to come home. My friend asks about her new BF that is 15yrs older she said she has not told him what she is doing yet. He sees right through her BS and tells her to kick rocks!! Lol. She says fine and goes back to her BF, who does not know what the h*ll happened!


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## Chuck71

If we examine closely, a major connection in cheaters is insecurity. The want that safety net. Almost every single one who walks away, for whatever reason unless abuse or cheating, will return. Yeah I can't solve my own S/pile but I can anyone elses. Over the past 25 years I have seen it done, like clockwork. 99.9%....And the one who is lost, are in a way, chasing something new to believe in (like religion) but if you can't believe in yourself how will you know how to believe in anything?


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## Too Little Too Late?

Chuck71 said:


> If we examine closely, a major connection in cheaters is insecurity. The want that safety net. Almost every single one who walks away, for whatever reason unless abuse or cheating, will return. Yeah I can't solve my own S/pile but I can anyone elses. Over the past 25 years I have seen it done, like clockwork. 99.9%....And the one who is lost, are in a way, chasing something new to believe in (like religion) but if you can't believe in yourself how will you know how to believe in anything?


We have been separated for 2 years separate homes but living as if. Dinners, dates vacations etc. But as soon as she announced D was with posOm maybe before. Still think she comes back?

Has told her aunt she knew this guy wasn't good for her. Told me just about the same. Then a week later announces that she is in love. 

Sorry for the thread heist..the topic interested me because of my current sitch.


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## Chuck71

Feel free to IM me, I'm not sure how you do it here. But I will say with full clarity, they will return if you showed love and kindness. The emotions that carried her away will bring her back. I have seen it too many times with others. I had a friend who had a .22 ready to end it. Seven months later he was happy and found a woman who loved him in ways he never imagined. As for the ex, she came back, four times.....even offered "free love"....he told her to depart because I found someone....a woman who has my heart and cherishes it. The cheater won the battle, but lost the war.


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## BigMac

Too Little Too Late? said:


> We have been separated for 2 years separate homes but living as if. Dinners, dates vacations etc. But as soon as she announced D was with posOm maybe before. Still think she comes back?
> 
> Has told her aunt she knew this guy wasn't good for her. Told me just about the same. Then a week later announces that she is in love.
> 
> Sorry for the thread heist..the topic interested me because of my current sitch.



Have you gone completely dark ? Have you changed your old habits ?

If she's going to dates and vacations with you means she want you back BUT something is stopping her ! 

Can you find what ? Is she with the posOM still ?

And 2 years - you need the jealousy card my friend !


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## GutPunch

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Do you guys really think they all come back at some point? Mine seems to flying on cloud 9 with the rebound posUm. We have 3 kids. posUm has none. says she is in love with him after 3 mos.


Mine confessed her love after just one weekend. LOL At least yours has scruples That POS sure must text message really good to have my wife fall in love that fast.


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## Chuck71

what goes up really fast, will come down really fast.
impulsive, reckless, unthoughtful=emotional wasteland
find highground, watch other drown in own lake


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## HiRoad

Chuck71 said:


> what goes up really fast, will come down really fast.
> impulsive, reckless, unthoughtful=emotional wasteland
> find highground, watch other drown in own lake


This is soo true, my STBXW out of the blue went to court and filed for a D served me in two days and was on the fast track to get everything split-up. 

Fast foward 2.5 months, she is slowed down alot and thnksgvng was really hard on her. 

Insitute 180,NC,and let em go, and watch from 50k ft.


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## BigMac

> We have 3 kids. posUm has none. says she is in love with him after 3 mos.



Ah, we all know what will happen - as soon as they get close and responsibilities starting knocking on the door he'll dump her and she'll understand how hard it is to find a valuable man while having 3 kids at home.

But you have to find out what is she liking in him so you can work on your self !


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## BigMac

HiRoad said:


> This is soo true, my STBXW out of the blue went to court and filed for a D served me in two days and was on the fast track to get everything split-up.
> 
> Fast foward 2.5 months, she is slowed down alot and thnksgvng was really hard on her.
> 
> Insitute 180,NC,and let em go, and watch from 50k ft.



Same here , not even 3 months and divorced already .

I know she'll be back ... she started already 

Just stay on 180 as you say and don't bother.


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## GutPunch

Well...STBXW called last night asking to keep our daughter today. I told her I would drop her off this morning and did. She gave me a tour of the apartment. I hugged my little girl and got out of there in strict 180 fashion. What makes this unusual is that today is not an agreed upon visitation today. The consensus on here is to let the other parent see their kids when they want to right? I don't feel she is in any danger.


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## BigMac

GutPunch said:


> Well...STBXW called last night asking to keep our daughter today. I told her I would drop her off this morning and did. She gave me a tour of the apartment. I hugged my little girl and got out of there in strict 180 fashion. What makes this unusual is that today is not an agreed upon visitation today. The consensus on here is to let the other parent see their kids when they want to right? I don't feel she is in any danger.



Why did you got inside ? Why she gave you the tour ? You don't need that !

Friends give tours of their new appt to friends !

Friends doesn't divorce friends !


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## soca70

Well if your kids are there, I think it's best to know that it is safe, clean, etc. for peace of mind. I just got the "tour" yesterday but I requested it.


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## Chuck71

She wants to give you mind movies of all the rooms she will be getting bonked in. But.....lol......they're also the rooms that will have the cuss fights and the words "i want out". It's ironic how human behaviour can shield itself from the forthcoming aftermath. Anyone who has the present is everything and who cares about the future should be required to have the following bumper sticker:

FAIL TO PLAN PLAN TO FAIL


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## GutPunch

Wife wants my daughter again today. Strange behavior for her. Two days in a row but whatever. I dropped her off this morning at her apartment anyway. Maybe she is starting to miss the kids? When we lived together she would put our daughter in daycare so she could "clean the house" actually "get high on pills".

Man my emotions are like a roller coaster. Having a shi**y couple of days I guess. Why do I still want her back? She betrayed me and the kids. Pathetic. Two weeks ago I hung out with an old college girlfriend who recently divorced and lives about 90 miles away. Man did I have alot of fun. Spent the night (no funny business though). Came home sent flowers to her work. Texted back and forth a few times. Noticed she only texted me (no phone call!) about the flowers. Has since gone dark. I know she had a good time must have a bf and I do live pretty far away. Just what I needed another gutpunch to my self esteem. I dont think I was ready for that. One date and flowers reeks of pathetic desperation don't it? Oh well haven't dated in 15 years. 

Glad I see the IC today. Maybe she will get me out of this funk.


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## BigMac

GutPunch said:


> Wife wants my daughter again today. Strange behavior for her. Two days in a row but whatever. I dropped her off this morning at her apartment anyway. Maybe she is starting to miss the kids? When we lived together she would put our daughter in daycare so she could "clean the house" actually "get high on pills".
> 
> Man my emotions are like a roller coaster. Having a shi**y couple of days I guess. Why do I still want her back? She betrayed me and the kids. Pathetic. Two weeks ago I hung out with an old college girlfriend who recently divorced and lives about 90 miles away. Man did I have alot of fun. Spent the night (no funny business though). Came home sent flowers to her work. Texted back and forth a few times. Noticed she only texted me (no phone call!) about the flowers. Has since gone dark. I know she had a good time must have a bf and I do live pretty far away. Just what I needed another gutpunch to my self esteem. I dont think I was ready for that. One date and flowers reeks of pathetic desperation don't it? Oh well haven't dated in 15 years.
> 
> Glad I see the IC today. Maybe she will get me out of this funk.


He he , slow down buddy ! She just got D , by sending her flowers you're acting needy ! I'm sure she just got rid of one needy hubby , why do you think she need another one that soon ?


If dating and interaction with other woman makes you feel better just do it then. 

I know how it feels to been needed , appreciated , affected etc .


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## GutPunch

BigMac said:


> He he , slow down buddy ! She just got D , by sending her flowers you're acting needy ! I'm sure she just got rid of one needy hubby , why do you think she need another one that soon ?
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> What was I thinking? Lost control:scratchhead:


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## BigMac

GutPunch said:


> BigMac said:
> 
> 
> 
> He he , slow down buddy ! She just got D , by sending her flowers you're acting needy ! I'm sure she just got rid of one needy hubby , why do you think she need another one that soon ?
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> What was I thinking? Lost control:scratchhead:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you didn't made the wedding plan already
Click to expand...


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## NoWhere

GutPunch said:


> Wife wants my daughter again today. Strange behavior for her. Two days in a row but whatever. I dropped her off this morning at her apartment anyway. Maybe she is starting to miss the kids? When we lived together she would put our daughter in daycare so she could "clean the house" actually "get high on pills".
> 
> Man my emotions are like a roller coaster. Having a shi**y couple of days I guess. Why do I still want her back? She betrayed me and the kids. Pathetic. Two weeks ago I hung out with an old college girlfriend who recently divorced and lives about 90 miles away. Man did I have alot of fun. Spent the night (no funny business though). Came home sent flowers to her work. Texted back and forth a few times. Noticed she only texted me (no phone call!) about the flowers. Has since gone dark. I know she had a good time must have a bf and I do live pretty far away. Just what I needed another gutpunch to my self esteem. I dont think I was ready for that. One date and flowers reeks of pathetic desperation don't it? Oh well haven't dated in 15 years.
> 
> Glad I see the IC today. Maybe she will get me out of this funk.


Don't beat yourself up too bad. You should text her and ask if she got the card with the flowers that had the marriage proposal in it.  At this point what do you care. Make fun of the situation and have a good time. Just the fact she went out with you should make you feel good. You can't do everything right and its expected to make a few missteps considering what you are going through. She could be upset that she spent the night and you didn't make a move on her and she wanted you to.


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## GutPunch

NoWhere;1262440 She could be upset that she spent the night and you didn't make a move on her and she wanted you to. said:


> I can assure you thats not it. :lol:


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## NoWhere

GutPunch said:


> I can assure you thats not it. :lol:


 It doesn't hurt to dream!


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## GutPunch

OK people talk some sense into me as I sure do miss my ex. She has made no attempt to reconcile. Could she possibly be waiting for me to try just a little? I need Conrad to slap me around a little. Sure does hurt being married so long and then poof over a weekend it's gone. This is one helluva roller coaster ride.


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## NoWhere

You will have moments where you miss her, but just think about all the things she has done and put you through. If she wanted to R she would have texted you by now. If not she's playing some game and its not worth it. You can do better and be happier.


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## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> OK people talk some sense into me as I sure do miss my ex. She has made no attempt to reconcile. Could she possibly be waiting for me to try just a little? I need Conrad to slap me around a little. Sure does hurt being married so long and then poof over a weekend it's gone. This is one helluva roller coaster ride.



I am going through the same thing right now see my thread http://http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/62405-questioning-nc-w-stbxw.html My STBXW has made no attempt either. Like you we need to stay on the 180 and NC/LC for now, we cannot back slide, no begging, pursinng, chasing, convincing, try to change thier minds, promising change, ILU's. etc. We have to be strong independet aplha males that know what we want in life and will not let our women control our feelings!


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## GutPunch

Boy I don't feel ALPHA with my harem of zero.


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## HiRoad

_Posted via Mobile Device_ 1 day at a time


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## GutPunch

I hate not having my kids for an entire weekend. Thx alot Bit$$.


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## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> I hate not having my kids for an entire weekend. Thx alot Bit$$.


I feel you! I went a full 5.5 days without seeing my kids, freaking sucked. 

I p/u weds - fri
then p/u thurs - su

That is a long stretch, i plan on chaning it in mediation.


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## GutPunch

I am lucky that I keep the kids except on wed 3-7 and every other weekend. I do not think I could be as tough as I have been on the exterior (around her) otherwise. If she had the kids, I probably would have folded like a tent.


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## HiRoad

Wow.. you are lucky!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08

I don't see mine for 2 weeks at a time except for a few phone calls and one visit.

You learn to deal with it and move on.


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## Stella Moon

GutPunch said:


> OK people talk some sense into me as I sure do miss my ex. She has made no attempt to reconcile. Could she possibly be waiting for me to try just a little? I need Conrad to slap me around a little. Sure does hurt being married so long and then poof over a weekend it's gone. This is one helluva roller coaster ride.


Must be in the water..

I'm going through the same thing... 

Where is Conrad...I need to be slapped around too...I need Chuck and Angelpixie...and the lotta ya... 

Havin a low night with Gutpunch here...doesn't help I'm working with the douchcanoe...I hear him on the work radio... see him on occasion..etc... 
he hates me.


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## Stella Moon

GutPunch said:


> I have had a rough couple of days. See my IC at 11:00 today. Went to the dentist for a six month check up decided to get teeth whitening done. I would not of done that if I was still with the ex.
> 
> The hardest part for me is letting go. I have always been a type A personality and this drama is causing my body to redline in car speak.
> 
> I did go out with an old girlfriend on a strictly platonic date. Man did we have a blast. However, when it was time to go home I got really really down. Don't know if I was ready for that.
> 
> STBXW meeting this evening to exchange kids. She doesn't know what the 180 is but she is a Bruce Lee like zen master of it without even knowing. I have got to quit holding on.


Gutpunch...

the 180 is hard for me also...I always told the people here my STBXH wrote it...meaning...he 'lived' the 180 while married to me...just null on communication...he was sooo good at it...and the 180 wasn't needed...it was 'time' to communicate...yanno...deal with disagreements etc...

but yea...180 is hard...I try and keep my texts strictly dealing with the bills related...
my STBX...shows zero signs of R.... and I mean zero...and he loves every minute of it because he knows the NC torments me.. 
since he's walked out...he won't even talk to me on the phone...
anyway...my story is on a different thread but yea...I hear you...


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## Chuck71

Stella I'm here but I have my own personal he!! I am riding. But you are not forgotten. My prayers are with you.


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## Conrad

Stella Moon said:


> Must be in the water..
> 
> I'm going through the same thing...
> 
> Where is Conrad...I need to be slapped around too...I need Chuck and Angelpixie...and the lotta ya...
> 
> Havin a low night with Gutpunch here...doesn't help I'm working with the douchcanoe...I hear him on the work radio... see him on occasion..etc...
> he hates me.


I'm back.

Spun's already in the lumberyard and needs company.


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## GutPunch

I swear the loneliness is terrible. I don't think I have spoken to an adult today. It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone. I see the world happening all around me but no one speaks to me. I would say FML but I do got two awesome kids.


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## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I swear the loneliness is terrible. I don't think I have spoken to an adult today. It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone. I see the world happening all around me but no one speaks to me. I would say FML but I do got two awesome kids.


We are not adults?


----------



## GutPunch

LOL Conrad you are one witty fellow.


----------



## Chuck71

It's tough at times. I need to post an update of mine but I just have not had enough time. It's trivial anyway. BTW The Obsolite Man is one of the greatest TZ epi's ever


----------



## NoWhere

GutPunch said:


> I swear the loneliness is terrible. I don't think I have spoken to an adult today. It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone. I see the world happening all around me but no one speaks to me. I would say FML but I do got two awesome kids.


I feel ya. Didn't think of it, but I've not spoken to hardly anyone all weekend.
Kind of makes it hard to keep a positive attitude when your just all alone all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stella Moon

Conrad said:


> We are not adults?


Lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

NoWhere said:


> I feel ya. Didn't think of it, but I've not spoken to hardly anyone all weekend.
> Kind of makes it hard to keep a positive attitude when your just all alone all the time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're never alone.

You just choose to be.

Being 'alone' isn't a bad thing either.

Perspectives need to change in order to see things for what they are.

The hard part is, it's completely up to you.


----------



## lostinspaces

NoWhere said:


> I feel ya. Didn't think of it, but I've not spoken to hardly anyone all weekend.
> Kind of makes it hard to keep a positive attitude when your just all alone all the time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Same thing here so I picked up the phone yesterday and chatted with a few friends. The trick is finding a crowd you can hang out with though.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Actually the STBXW very successfull dealing with pills. One for me one for you. LOL She will be able to live it up with no mortgage, bills, kids, etc. She already pays me good faith child support. Its gonna be a lot harder for her to hit rock bottom. She is also super attractive and makes a lot of money.


Gut 

I know you are hurt. You have every right to be. 

Of course she will live it up. She is sick.
Of course she will hit rock bottom. It is inevitable for a drug addict not to hit rock bottom.
Money and looks will get eaten up by the drugs, booze and posom. It will not happen today or tomorrow but it will happen.

But none of that is your concern.

You and your kids should be your only focus. The 180 is for you. To get well. To heal. To become strong and move forward in your life with your children.

Why? Because Mommy is sick aka a loser.

You got dealt the short stick pal.

But what you do with it is what counts and will define you as a man!

I am glad you have the kids. Now get your life moving and go find a nice gal who will love your kids just as much as you......

HM64


----------



## happyman64

HiRoad said:


> absolutely! My friends XW told him over dinner on a halmark card that she was having an A. She ended up moving out, and saying she loved the OM.! He filed all the paperwork, got the D moving and final 8 mnths ago.
> 
> Big suprise the OM did not work out!! Shocker. THen what did she do, go out and find another OM, 15 yrs older than her.
> 
> So 2 wks ago she shows up at his door step, she is crying and they talk, she asks to come home. My friend asks about her new BF that is 15yrs older she said she has not told him what she is doing yet. He sees right through her BS and tells her to kick rocks!! Lol. She says fine and goes back to her BF, who does not know what the h*ll happened!


She wants to come home?

I hope your buddy said this "This has not been your home since the day you left. You have no home to go to. Goodbye..."


----------



## happyman64

Time for you to get out Gut.

Go do something you always wanted to do and make sure there is a chance of making new friends while out there.

And no, teeth whitening does not count!


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> LOL Conrad you are one witty fellow.


Figured I'd post a pic for all of you.


----------



## GutPunch

Thanks Happy it's rants like that help me get thru this mess. I guess it really isn't loneliness getting to me as much as the change. I clearly do not accept change well. Why do I have to assume change is bad? I been on the 180 for a while but STBXW is better at it than me. She has been on the 180 ever since she started on the drugs.


----------



## lostinspaces

Yes, but only one of you is 180ing your way to a better life.

I know it's hard to watch them go down a destructive path, mine is doing the same (with alcohol and poor decisions), but the only thing you can really do is remove yourself from situations where you have to watch/know that they are doing these things. 

It's sad, but you can't help them anymore.


----------



## Chuck71

By stepping away they will crash and burn quicker. Maybe that would be a good thing for you. You have to hit bottom to realize


----------



## GutPunch

Well Chuck I am pretty sure she is not on the drugs anymore. She quit taking them while we were still together. However, her mental state went south when she quit. I have never seen someone so miserable as she was when she got off the drugs. All that misery is of course attributed to "the marriage". She probably thinks rock bottom was when she was married to me. I think the drugs did some damage otherwise I cannot explain the internet affair or walking away from her kids. Our kids are both angels too. She has already ended the affair but no attempts at R.


----------



## Chuck71

Drug w/d can be very messy. People have to find something or someone to blame and....... As far as her A, if she is coming out of the fog....she may be scared chitless. Reality has a way of knocking the holy crap out of ya. IF...IF...she comes around, she needs to help herself internally first. A quick fix w/o help is just band aiding a problem that will 99% reoccur within a year or two.


----------



## GutPunch

Little girl cried for 15 minutes after kid switch. I swear this woman hates me. She has cool ice water running thru her veins.


----------



## Chuck71

Those actions will haunt her....bet the farm.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Little girl cried for 15 minutes after kid switch. I swear this woman hates me. She has cool ice water running thru her veins.


There is no difference between cool ice water in her veins and F'D up brain waves.

You know she is not functioning correctly.

So be prepared to deal with it.

It sucks, but you have no other options right now.

Patience.

HM64


----------



## HiRoad

happyman64 said:


> She wants to come home?
> 
> I hope your buddy said this "This has not been your home since the day you left. You have no home to go to. Goodbye..."


Yup, she showed up at his doorstep and was asking to come home like nothing happened. But she still had her OM. 

He told her to kick rocks!Essentially. He is in such a better place that he told her no.


----------



## HiRoad

happyman64 said:


> There is no difference between cool ice water in her veins and F'D up brain waves.
> 
> You know she is not functioning correctly.
> 
> So be prepared to deal with it.
> 
> It sucks, but you have no other options right now.
> 
> Patience.
> 
> HM64


Yes patience and a consistent 180 is the key. My STBXW appears to be letting up on her wrecking ball path a little but she is starting to reap the decisions that she is making.

They all fall, it is a matter of time. And the more i read and hear frineds talk, the more i see they almost always they want to comeback.

I have learned to love her from 50k feet, watch and observe her behavior, lies, deciet, and you stay positive. IShe cannot trash someone who is making/doing positive things.


----------



## GutPunch

Every time I see my STBXW she has a short skirt and them giant boots. Never dressed like that for me. lol


----------



## Chuck71

That's to hide the facade she is walking through.


----------



## HiRoad

my STBXW wife has stopped smiling around me, i have noticed lately. I guess her new life isnt all that it is cracked up to be!


----------



## Chuck71

Reality bites......hard. But it is poetic justice, them being the one who wanted out.


----------



## HiRoad

Guilt, remorse, and the look on our childrens faces is a MF'er, especially since she did this.

It is starting to set in slowly, like being paper cut 1 million times, slowly.


----------



## jameskimp

You need to try harder for another girl. Hit the bar scene, try online, go out and do something. You need that self esteem boost. 

You go the whole day without talking to another another? That shows that you don't put yourself out.

If you continue down this road, you will get desperate and go back to your cheating and unremorseful wife.


----------



## GutPunch

It's hard when I have the kids 85% of the time. I have secured a couple of dates. Hopefully, they will go well. I could use a self esteem boost. No question about that. I will say that I have not been a PU$$ in this situation and i am proud of that. STBXW has no idea whats going on with me emotionally. I am glad I found this sight early.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> It's hard when I have the kids 85% of the time. I have secured a couple of dates. Hopefully, they will go well. I could use a self esteem boost. No question about that. I will say that I have not been a PU$$ in this situation and i am proud of that. STBXW has no idea whats going on with me emotionally. I am glad I found this sight early.


Hey Gut

Enjoy the dates. Just have fun and they will go fine.

And bring your sense of humor. That is all you need.

HM64


----------



## GutPunch

STBXW texted again to get the kids early tomorrow. Ohh the guilt must be setting in or she just might miss her kids. LOL


----------



## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> STBXW texted again to get the kids early tomorrow. Ohh the guilt must be setting in or she just might miss her kids. LOL


alright stay cool, calm, collected, and distant!


----------



## GutPunch

you mean just copy her LOL


----------



## HiRoad

lol! I am with ya, i hate this battle of wills, if you can call it that! 

My freakin STBXW i think is doing NC wiht me as well!


----------



## happyman64

Patience Gut. Patience.

She needs to feel the guilt and the loss of the kids. She also needs to deal with it on her own.


----------



## GutPunch

Well today is my two month anniversary of DDAy. Feel better today than I did that day. Still do not understand how someone can choose drugs, affairs, etc. over a loving family. The next woman I find better not mention the she tends to be a little selfish. I'll be like this date is over. So I get on my facebook account and bam the STBXW has joined the world of Facebook. I bet alot of good is going to come from this. I wanted to punch the PC when I see that big ole grin on her face! My FB page just went from public to private.


----------



## GutPunch

Well another Wed and another tear filled switch for my daughter. Each one of these is agonizing for me. To here her cry out for her Mommy is heartbreaking. I am still hurting today from last nights switch. Again, How do you walk out on a loving family for some man you have never met. How people put there own selfish needs in front of their children is inexplicable to me.


----------



## HiRoad

agreed, thiere ir-rational, she will crash and it will hurt


----------



## GutPunch

HiRoad I just don't see her crashing and feeling one tenth of the hurt I am going thru. Maybe some guilt and regret tops.


----------



## HiRoad

i am on the same boat, i relly think that it may be over with me too. I dont see my STBXW getting herself some help, or self-reflecting ever.

Sad, she destroyed something beautiful, her loss someone elses gain.


----------



## Chuck71

Usually when one person hurts, the other does not. As in the case you are saying, you hurt and she does not. When you heal is when she will hurt. That's the way I have seen it with people I know over the years


----------



## lostinspaces

I would warn anyone who is waiting for a specific action from the X (in this case for them to hurt) to concentrate on themselves instead. 

Maybe the X will hurt one day, maybe not. Chances are you'll never know if they do, so you can't focus on it. It is just a way of focusing on them. At this point, one of the best things any of us can do is to stop worrying about how they currently feel or will one day feel. 

We all want that validation, trust me I know, but really, what difference would it make?


----------



## happyman64

You know Gut a woman like yours who has her addictions is just not right in the head.

Drugs, OM, 

That type of person keeps looking for the next high for the rest of their lives sometimes.

All you can do is be the best man and Dad.

And find someone else to fill the void.

Because your wife does does not deserve you.


----------



## GutPunch

Shouldn't I be getting over this by now? I still harbor so much pain and anxiety. I get tired way too early these days. I miss her so much. I feel pretty pathetic too miss someone who cheated on me.
My poor children also. Not a good weekend.


----------



## HiRoad

*!*



GutPunch said:


> Shouldn't I be getting over this by now? I still harbor so much pain and anxiety. I get tired way too early these days. I miss her so much. I feel pretty pathetic too miss someone who cheated on me.
> My poor children also. Not a good weekend.


Hang in there. How is your 180 going? Go out, go to the gym, do something! Do not sit alone for one sec, it allows your mind to focus on the pain. It is a sickness, the way we focus on the pain, its masochistic. 

This is not healthy either, there are chemicals that are realesed in your body when you have anxiety and pain. You MUST get out of pain.

Here is what I have done that really helps. When I start to obsess or think about STBXW:

Work out, run (this is really good almost imediate for me at least), think about STBXW negative traits, talk to family, go out, talk to other women, TAM, etc.


----------



## GutPunch

My problem working out is that I worked out six days a week prior to wife flipping out. Ironically right around the time she began her drug usage. Coincidence? You are correct in that my mind is my worst enemy right now. The pain is still very much a part of me. I have had this wierd crick in my neck for two months (probably stress). 

I have not broken down on the NC portion of the 180. I know that nothing I say will bring her back. Her problems are of her own creation. She is not happy with herself so is now struggling for an identity. I am pretty sure she is probably blaming me for her unhappiness. When in reality, her stopping the drugs (painkillers) put her in a deep depression.

I do have a date Sat. Hopefully I will not squeeze the life out of this one with my neediness like I did the last. No flowers after one date. lol


----------



## HiRoad

Good, you are rationalizing! A rational person looking at your situation from the outside in would look at it like, "what are you doing with this women!" Keep doing this, share you thoughts with someone close to you or here.

This is not a healthy warm women, she has some problems that YOU cannot solve. Focus on your kids and you.


----------



## Chuck71

Her unhappiness is her own danm problem. She made her bed, lie in it. You want to see a spiral? Watch her when she DTs, realizes what she did to her child and who she gave away. Dude I promise you, it will not be pretty. 

My spiraling W told me today she can't remember anything from one day to the next. LOL hate it for ya!


----------



## Chuck71

Gut-If you need to talk.................PM me. Can PM or phone. If you read my latest blog........I luckily turned the corner!


----------



## GutPunch

I'm ok I will read your blog. The pain and sorrow are killing me. I know it takes time. I miss the woman I married. She had her faults but she was a good wife until the drugs. I still love her and am having trouble turning the corner myself.


----------



## Chuck71

The woman you married and the woman she is now are different as night and day. Once you realize that, it gets a lot easier. That woman you knew will one day reappear. Just be very glad you are not her because what she will feel is going to be devestating


----------



## GutPunch

OK Got some text messages saying she has to work this weekend. Happens to be her weekend with the kids. Could she have the kids tomorrow thru thursday. I tell her im not ok with it b/c the kids always stay with me on school nights. Melt down follows. I call her to try to arrange some sort of visitation this week for her. She is obviously distraught (first showing of emotion). I ask her if she is ok and I get "No I am not OK I miss my f#$%king kids"

Don't know how to handle this? She should see her kids but should have communicated all of this sooner.


----------



## Chuck71

fog lift


----------



## GutPunch

Think so? She might just miss her kids as I have them 85% of the time.


----------



## happyman64

Let her miss the kids.

She needs to feel consequences for her actions.

Definitely tough.

See if she comes up with a plan that you two agree on.


----------



## Chuck71

Why are you even asking if she is ok? Do you think she cares enough to ask you? Your children's routine is more important than her needs. Her needs should not even be on your radar. Let her feel miserable....it's called "ACCOUNTABILITY"


----------



## DDGresham1

My wife just left me and while she was correct in that I was negative at times and had an anger issue I have to believe that her pill use was a big part of the reason that she left me. I think she was depressed after she quit and 4 years of popping pills has changed her.


----------



## GutPunch

DD I am sorry to here that. I hope it wasn't opiates cuz that will take a long time to recover from. My wife got so depressed when she quit nothing made her happy. You are absolutely right the pills have something to do with it. She will probably even try to blame you and you alls relationship for taking the pills. Watch out for the A cuz that will get her "high" again.


----------



## GutPunch

Dropped the little girl off this morning with my new clothes on and a new cologne recommended from the TAM ladies. I noticed her visibly start tearing up. UGGGG Again I ask her if she was OK. Somebody slap me. Realized it right when it came out of mouth. However, she muttered I'm OK so I well I'm off too work and got out quickly. I need to think about the pain I endured on DDAy. The 20 lbs that evaporated in 3 weeks.


----------



## DDGresham1

Gutpunch,

Hang in there. Sorry to hear you are going through so much as well.

DD


----------



## NoWhere

GutPunch said:


> My problem working out is that I worked out six days a week prior to wife flipping out. Ironically right around the time she began her drug usage. Coincidence?


 I'm interested in what you said here. I was working out 6 days a week and it took a lot of time to warm up, lift weights for about a hour, cool down, stretch then make a healthy meal. This made me wonder if all that time I spent doing that if she didn't actually resent it as it was less time I spent with her. Plus I would become upset if anything came up to deviate me from my schedule. That would be ironic that in trying to look good for her I inadvertently pushed her away.


----------



## Chuck71

opiates are a killer high but then you have the fall. they call it happy Saturday and depressed Sunday. it runs out your dopamine. please stop asking if she is okay. let HER ask YOU. but never count on it. you are a free agent, you are open to "anyone". you are not sitting around waiting on her. the moment she sees you have the game, she will turn her TV on. Take that to the bank dude


----------



## Chuck71

NoWhere-But would she complain if you sat on the couch watching tv and drinking a 12 pack? You did something for you. If it harmed her ego there was already something there to fester it. You worked out to better your health. In the end what is more important, her or your health?


----------



## GutPunch

Yea, my working out had nothing to do with her. Her drug usage was due to access/postpartem/intestinal illness. I really just worked out to lower my BP and cholesterol.


----------



## Chuck71

opiates are a heck of a ride but you fall like you rise. i used to use those when i wrote papers in college. i can see the base for the use. but it is no means to an end, for anything


----------



## GutPunch

I do believe she detoxed herself probably about 9 months ago. However, the depression during these nine months is what made her run. I hope and do believe she is clean for my kids and her sake. She's just messed up in the head from taking 20 lortabs a day for 2 solid years.


----------



## Chuck71

i went through a period of depression when i could not find work. but i didn't use that as an excuse to cheat. i drank more than i should have but i owned my emotions. as you see on TAM boards, many do not


----------



## HiRoad

GP & chuck - i too went through a period of depression and anxiety when my STBXW and I opened a new business. Also my STBXW's sister, H, and niece moved in, and we had no $$$. I was the sole bread winner. I had panic attacks, anxiety, and drank more. 

Got to a point that i got on lexapro and i was drinking to boot. Quite lexapro, drank more, ate bad, and yet the last thing on my mind was to cheat on me STBXW!


----------



## Chuck71

I can't get over the fact mine joined two paid dating sites and is now home every night. The day I let her go, she started coming home. Yeah weird. It's almost like it was before but we don't talk. She doesn't know how to communicate and it would take a miracle to save us even if she started. I don't know if she was seeing someone or not, it does not matter. She wanted out so I dropped the D. My thing is trust. And for that one reason, I can't see it working out.


----------



## whitehawk

Chuck71 said:


> I can't get over the fact mine joined two paid dating sites and is now home every night. The day I let her go, she started coming home. Yeah weird. It's almost like it was before but we don't talk. She doesn't know how to communicate and it would take a miracle to save us even if she started. I don't know if she was seeing someone or not, it does not matter. She wanted out so I dropped the D. My thing is trust. And for that one reason, I can't see it working out.


were you guys married chucky or ? are you still in the same house by the sounds of it yea ?
can't believe you get to see her still alone , you lucky [email protected]

l reckon if people realized and remembered just how hard it is to find your match they'd be a bit more realistic.
there's 1,000's of people in those sites.
and like l said to mine , we were a rare couple , neither of us will find this again and were together 18ys yet look what's happened to us. 
so she'll have to be with someone else from now until she's 60 before she knows if it's gonna pass us or blow up like we did.

lt's one thing walking down the street or going out and copping a few flirts , but another turning that into the rest of your life isn't it.


----------



## Chuck71

WH-Yes we still live in same house. My house, she can leave whenever she wants. We were married in '99 and met in '97. She is leaving with nothing, of course I get to keep the debt she run up. It seems too many people just think D will solve all their problems and do not realize what it inflicts. Do I think she regrets it now? Kinda. Will she? He11 yes.


----------



## GutPunch

Well I guess the fog may have lifted for the kids. Not seeing her kids has obviously caused her some grief. She seems to want them more. I have also seen and heard some crying. Too bad she doesn't miss me like that. I know I shouldn't think like that but I do. Well I'm off to see the IC.


----------



## NoWhere

GutPunch said:


> Well I guess the fog may have lifted for the kids. Not seeing her kids has obviously caused her some grief. She seems to want them more. I have also seen and heard some crying. Too bad she doesn't miss me like that. I know I shouldn't think like that but I do. Well I'm off to see the IC.


 Don't feel bad. I wish I had some sign my wife missed me or regretted her decision. I don't think it would affect my current trajectory, but the thought gives me pause.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Well I guess the fog may have lifted for the kids. Not seeing her kids has obviously caused her some grief. She seems to want them more. I have also seen and heard some crying. Too bad she doesn't miss me like that. I know I shouldn't think like that but I do. Well I'm off to see the IC.


Patience Gut Patience.

Rome was not built in a day.

Keep the focus on you.

Time to heal. And she needs to feel reality. Keep looking good, acting good.

For yourself.


----------



## Chuck71

HM is right! Let her relive what she caused. Your kids should be wanted by her more than you. I know that's tough. But if she was a great mother, you would have some degree of respect from her as a mother. Wife no but at least.....when the boomerang drops, the choice will be yours and yours alone. But never forget, it's always your choice, if you see it for the reality.


----------



## whitehawk

Chuck71 said:


> WH-Yes we still live in same house. My house, she can leave whenever she wants. We were married in '99 and met in '97. She is leaving with nothing, of course I get to keep the debt she run up. It seems too many people just think D will solve all their problems and do not realize what it inflicts. Do I think she regrets it now? Kinda. Will she? He11 yes.



yea i've got the house too. l'd almost have rathered move though l think now. lt's so depressing without the family in it now . gonna sell in 12 mths if poss ' but there'll be so much loneliness between now and then , l'm dreading it.

i hope she does regret it chucko , mine to . i dunno if l'll get to win that one she can't seem to put a foot wrong with her whole new family destroying crowd but she should live to regret it , it was so wrong , so quitting , gutless.
hope one of us at least gets to see it .


----------



## Chuck71

WH-I sympathize with you about the empty house and the fact you have children. Your ex will one day seek redemption but the key is not waiting around for it. If you do....you really won't be ready to make a valid judgement on if you want to re connect or not. Better yourself and when the day comes.....you can make a concise decision. And in many cases, the one cheated on will refuse to take them back. And the cheater will have to live with the fact, s/he destroyed a family.


----------



## whitehawk

thanks chuck and all the very best for you eh.

l 've often thought this in life , even about girls , but so often the hurt people are the best people a round. and the people through this place even with their own pain yet still supporting and time, just backs it up.


----------



## Chuck71

WH-The best advice you can get in this situation is from people who had been there or are currently. In life I always like to think two moves ahead. From the talk to around a week and half ago, I was not thinking that way. I am now and things are falling into place. She knows it by my tone and mannerism. I control my emotions. I dictate who I am. My life will resume without her


----------



## NoWhere

whitehawk said:


> yea i've got the house too. l'd almost have rathered move though l think now. lt's so depressing without the family in it now . gonna sell in 12 mths if poss ' but there'll be so much loneliness between now and then , l'm dreading it..


Have you tried rearranging everything, redecorate and paint. It will help to make the place different, plus if you plan on selling eventually its best to get started updating now. Also it has the benefit of keeping you busy and keeping your mind off things.

I know where you are coming from on the loneliness thing. It can be very depressing. Best to keep busy and not give yourself the time to sit around and dwell on these things.


----------



## GutPunch

I agree. My parents and I did a total makeover of our (my) house. Bought the little girl a new bed, cleaned carpets, changed pictures. I mean we fixed it up nice. I know she notices too but doesn't say anything on kid swaps


----------



## whitehawk

NoWhere said:


> Have you tried rearranging everything, redecorate and paint. It will help to make the place different, plus if you plan on selling eventually its best to get started updating now. Also it has the benefit of keeping you busy and keeping your mind off things.
> 
> I know where you are coming from on the loneliness thing. It can be very depressing. Best to keep busy and not give yourself the time to sit around and dwell on these things.



hi nowhere and thanks for that.
yea the properties a serious renovation number , we were together about 1/4 through . so there's lots to do inside and out.
it's hard with changes so far though because if l change them , then she was no longer there and l'm not ready for that yet , just can't.
but it's a big property and there's lots and lots all over that l can handle going on with so it's so sad doing it alone now but after work at least it keeps me busy.
if we didn't get back together l wanna sell it late next yr if poss' and get the f'k out because it's just not the type of spot l like living like this.
but , life can change for us all hey and the time gives things a bit of space , see what happens l guess.

youknow the bedroom kills me . l feel so sad at night in bed , sometimes l wake up and reach for her.
my daughter and me often crash in the lounge over dvd's and l often just give up and go back to the lounge.

all the best to you nw.


----------



## GutPunch

Merry Christmas to all the TAMers. Hopefully the new year will be a little less painful.


----------



## GutPunch

Well...I am really angry at the STBXW. I missed work today to accomodate her work schedule as she agreed to take the children this weekend. I figured I could go in fri and this weekend and play catch up. She calls me to tell me she has switched shifts so I could go out New Years Eve. She really just wants out of keeping the kids to go party with her friends out of town. I realize what she is doing and tell her if you don't want the kids this weekend then tell me don't act like you are doing me any favors. I should have not shown my emotion but this really inconveniences me and my family. I didn't raise my voice but I did get a little passive aggressive.

I feel like texting her saying you owe your S and D an apology when you do decide to see them again. That is probably a violation of the 180 I have been sticking too. Can I use this in court against her? How do I handle this? Hurting me I can take but my kids makes me furious. What kind of woman walks out on a 3yo D and 6yo S. The epitome of selfishness.


----------



## Chuck71

Do not accommodate her. Would she you?
Let her get her boogie on, keep your kids. Kids will remember that (and the many more to come)
Document all times you keep them. Her needs concern her only.
She is hurting herself, just not realize it yet.

Children begin by loving their parents; after a time they judge them; rarely, if ever, do they forgive them.
Oscar Wilde


----------



## GutPunch

I am thinking since she bailed on the kids this weekend, I am not going to negotiate with her till after the holidays. If she gets mad, I just tell her you gave up your time with the kids. I am not giving up mine to accomodate you. Think of how the kids felt when I told them they were not going to see you this weekend as they were told.


----------



## Chuck71

Tell her "I am not comfortable with your erratic behavior. Our children are my only concern."
She is digging her own he!!hole. She does not need any help. Love your kids and be thankful, you are not her.


----------



## GutPunch

I do know one thing. I am lonely. The holidays are over the family is gone. I am feeling really lonely. Wife just bailed on her kids to go live it up. I have got to get to a happy place. I need some friends really bad. I wish my wife and I had not moved from our hometowns. How do you make new friends when your 40 with 2 young kids? I guess I am just having a bad day. I need to reach a state of indifference but it just seems so far away.


----------



## HappyKaty

GutPunch said:


> I do know one thing. I am lonely. The holidays are over the family is gone. I am feeling really lonely. Wife just bailed on her kids to go live it up. I have got to get to a happy place. I need some friends really bad. I wish my wife and I had not moved from our hometowns. How do you make new friends when your 40 with 2 young kids? I guess I am just having a bad day. I need to reach a state of indifference but it just seems so far away.


Are your kids involved in any extra-curricular activities?

It's quite possible you could meet some parent friends, that way.

What about meet-up groups in your area?

Do you socialize with any of your co-workers?


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## GutPunch

> HappyKaty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are your kids involved in any extra-curricular activities?
> 
> Yes, but not during the holidays. Son plays three sports and daughter needs to start something soon.
> 
> It's quite possible you could meet some parent friends, that way.
> 
> I hope so. I definitely have my eyes open.
> 
> What about meet-up groups in your area?
> 
> I live in a pretty small town
> 
> Do you socialize with any of your co-workers?
Click to expand...

I own a small business. No luck there.


I tried one of the online dating sites and I believe no one will talk to me b/c of the separated status. Hell I don't blame them.


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## HappyKaty

GutPunch said:


> I own a small business. No luck there.
> 
> 
> I tried one of the online dating sites and I believe no one will talk to me b/c of the separated status. Hell I don't blame them.


From what I understand, the online dating sites are usually a bust.

Meetup.com is pretty great, though. 

I used it to keep myself busy, at first.


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## Stella Moon

Even if your status is separated isn't' there a place you can put pending divorce...my gf are encouraging me to join a service...I'm nervous about it though...dunno if i'm ready for 'that'...I'm lonely...but 'dating'... ugh....lol...


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## GutPunch

LOL My online profile reads, I'm really bummed will you go out with me. Need someone to lay on sofa with me. Do you like kids cuz I got a couple of strong willed ones for ya. Stella, thanks 1st time I laughed all day


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## HappyKaty

Stella Moon said:


> Even if your status is separated isn't' there a place you can put pending divorce...my gf are encouraging me to join a service...I'm nervous about it though...dunno if i'm ready for 'that'...I'm lonely...but 'dating'... ugh....lol...


If you're not ready, don't let 'em talk you into doing it.

You'll just find the same type of d0uchenozzle to start all over with.


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## HiRoad

i have to disagree a little bit, i think that dating is essential for healing. 

Builds confidence, get you out of pain, and keeps you busy, and who knows you may meet someone great out of it


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## HappyKaty

HiRoad said:


> i have to disagree a little bit, i think that dating is essential for healing.
> 
> Builds confidence, get you out of pain, and keeps you busy, and who knows you may meet someone great out of it


I agree that dating is good.

But, if you aren't ready, and haven't fixed your own issues yet, what do you think is gonna happen?

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.


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## HiRoad

i am not saying jump right in to the deep end. 

Just to enjoy the opposite sex, w/o the sex.

Go out on dates, movies, cook dinner. 

If it leads to and encounter, then it does.

The goal is to see what is out there.

How are you going to see what is out there if you are sulking on the couch.


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## HiRoad

Part of fixing your issues is dating. Just like as hard as it is to go out, you must go out.

Same premis, go date.


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## lee101981

Dating 😁

Mother of two girls here and I am not ready but lonely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty

HiRoad said:


> Part of fixing your issues is dating.


I respect your opinion.

But, I don't agree with it.


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## HiRoad

@happy - i am not ready neither, but that does not mean that i am not open if something comes my way. 

Maybe, just putting yourself out there, to see what happens.


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## GutPunch

I just ate a whole bag of chocolate chip cookies.Thank goodness for the 22 lbs I lost after DDAy. I can eat what I want.


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## GutPunch

Getting ready for a big night out with the S & D. Chick-Fila and maybe bowling if we have time. Happy New Year!


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## HiRoad

Happ new year GP! I hope 2013 is a better year!


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## GutPunch

I am amazed at my STBXW's level of detachment from me and the kids. I found TAM after a couple of weeks and went hardcore 180 on her. I thru her out immediately after discovering POSOM. The affair died within a week. However, she is silent and strictly kid business only.

I mean the EA/PA occured and ended in less than 1.5 months. 

Maybe the 2 years of painkiller addiction prior to all this helped her detach. Once you start the lying and deceiving it snowballs.

Now she's out there chasing that next "high" While I am at home taking care of our kids. So, So Sad. My STBXW had it all. Big house, doting husband, beautiful healthy kids, cadillac, six figure job, zero debt. WTF?

I know, where's my focus?


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## GutPunch

OK Holidays are over. Nice to see you start parenting again from 4-7PM. Must not be any thing to do on a Wed. night or somebody feels guilty! SMH


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## HiRoad

in the same boat GP, stbxw comes in tonight, maybe she will start being a mom again, but have not heard from her yet..... may not happen.


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## GutPunch

STBXW drops S&D off an hour late last night but they have had their tubbies.  I mention to the fact I was disappointed in the whole New Years fiasco.

I shouldn't take pleasure in this but a minute later she becomes very emotional and quickly hugs her kids and high tails it out of her former home. IDK if she just misses her kids, her home or what. 

HAHA Somebody is regretting something. However, she is way to stubborn to ever let me know what it is. I'm too stubborn to ask.

Anyways she needs to become more self-aware. I nor the kids can make her happy. We both take work!


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## HiRoad

My kids were excited to see thier mom last night, but it will be short lived she is scheduled to only see them today and i pick the up tomorrow as she leaves to LA till mon or tues.

GP, you are strong man and dad.


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## VFW

GP don’t be surprised at the blame shift your ex is playing on you, her only other option is to accept responsibility and she certainly is not going to do that stuff. The loss of a relationship is much like the loss of a person to death. Denial, guilt, anger, depression are all part of the grieving process, so your feelings are perfectly normal. At some point you will start to recover and ultimately reach a point of acceptance of the past and have hope for the future. In the meantime there are many things that you need to address. 

Schedule: Establish a schedule and stick to it as much as possible. Ex seems to want the world to revolve around her, don’t let that happen. A schedule gives the kids stability and allows you to leverage your time off more effectively. You need GP time to explore the new you.

Legal: You need to incorporate the schedule as part of a legal separation agreement/divorce. You seem to have verbal agreements on some financial issues, these will be included as well.

Exercise: This is to help relieve stress and make a healthier you. I recommend that on days you don’t have the kids to push yourself. Don’t know if your regiment includes running, but this can be good way to meet new people.

Hobbies: If you have a hobby, explore deeper into them. If you do not look to do something that you have always wanted to do, but have put off before now. Also volunteer work is a good way to get your focus off of you and onto helping others. Some volunteer programs can include the kids as well. It is a good way for them to learn service to others. 

You seem to be a little impatient with your progress, but you appear to be doing well to me. Don’t allow your ex to have your time and thoughts. You have too many things to offer a much more deserving partner to dwell on her. Allow yourself to explore new things, particularly where you can add the kids to the mix. Life has way too much to offer to stand still, time to boldly go forward.


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## GutPunch

Well written, VFW. I think I have most of the above covered except for hobbies. I would like to start playing golf again. I quit six years ago when my son was born. 

I also am adjusting to my new life as a single father. I seem to be emotionally drained at the end of every day. I think once I get the routine down of handling the kids needs, I will be strong enough to
explore new things. Right now I am adjusting to my new normal. 

I like the volunteering option, 3 year old probably too young?

I run alone, maybe doing some of these local runs would be a good idea. 

VFW have you been thru this before, lol


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## VFW

GP, I went through this many years ago. Unfortunately there were no TAM's at the time, so I was left with learning the lessons the hard way. So people learn by reading books, some learn by watching others and some of us just have to pee on that electric fence for ourselves. Now in all three instances you can learn, its just that some approaches are more painful than others.


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## Chuck71

GP-You're on the right course. Her tactic was more for show. Mine is watching her walls close in. I sit by and let it be. She is home every night and I'm gone most nights. As for emails she sends, I have a three day waiting period before answering or even opening. Hope your kids had a great Christmas / New Year


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## GutPunch

My STBXW has the kids this weekend. My son's 1st basketball game is tomorrow. Do I stay dark or do I go to the game? She knows how i always go to everything. Torn. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

My STBXW has the kids this weekend. My son's 1st basketball game is tomorrow. Do I stay dark or do I go to the game? She knows how i always go to everything. Torn. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> My STBXW has the kids this weekend. My son's 1st basketball game is tomorrow. Do I stay dark or do I go to the game? She knows how i always go to everything. Torn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would go to the game if it was me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

Watch the game, treat her as you would a complete stranger. She dug her own pooppile, not you. Show the kids who the real grown up is.


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## GutPunch

Well folks, I had a large setback today. Sat by my ex at the game and chit chatted mostly. Hard not to sit by her when she has my 3 year old daughter. 

During our conversation she asks me if I want to hear something strange. I say what "she says her ex-husband has reached out to her on facebook and wants to meet up to talk". She said that his wife wants them to talk. WTF!

Anyways after DDAY I wrote on facebook messenger to that dude that STBXW got addicted to drugs, cheated on me, and walked out on her children. How about warning somebody next time.

I thought it was funny, but regretted sending it as soon as I hit send. I told STBXW in the parking lot of the BBAll game what I had done. She was visibly upset. I feel terrible! I told her I was sorry and that I was angry at the time and regretted sending it. She clearly didn't want to talk any more.

Seeing her just makes me hurt! My stomach is in knots. What a setback. I just want to call her and reach out so bad. To see her hurt - it hurts me worse.


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## HiRoad

GP- its aright it is a set back not the end. Just get on the 180 again and NC. We all make mistakes it is how we deal with them that makes us who we are. Remember you are better than this you desrrve better and she is/has been selfish in her own ways.

You must take the high road here as hard as it is.

Ignore her. She wants to get you sucked into a convo. It will only hurt you.

Hang in there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

GP-She is seeking a reaction. She is sizing you up. As for what you sent, so what? Everyone backslides. Remember, Neo didn't make it on his first jump. Set your boundaries as if it is a playground. Your playground, your rules. She wants to play in the sandbox, follow the rules or find another playground.


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## GutPunch

Wife tells me she is eating dinner tomorrow with ex-husband before me? She says his wife is fully aware and suggested the meeting? 


Do I contact her and make sure she knows? They have small kids. I could easily facebook message her.


Do I say to myself my wife's gone and that's their problem?


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## HiRoad

Do nothing, any behavior that is other wise would be a sign a weakness and that you still want her. 

Try to think what a healthy ego would do?

Come from a place of strength. Do nothing, if anything if she mentions it tell her " thats nice" or "Good" short sweet and happily.


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## Chuck71

DO NOT DO A DAMN THING! That's her actions. I can almost promise it is smoke n mirrors but in the end.......why should you even care? What does that mean? She will have H #3 and one day have lunch with you? She is trying to play you like a violin......yank back the instrument. He!! she tries to play you with the kids, that just means she will resort to anything to push your buttons. STOP IT!! She spends more time trying to a drama queen than spending time with her kids? He!! no......she is trash. Let the city pick her up. You're better than that and you know it.


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## GutPunch

OK you guys are right. Do nothing. I just felt sorry for the other wife.


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## Chuck71

His wife is not of your concern. He is of no concern. Your wife is of no concern. Your children, are your only concern. Read it, live it.


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## HiRoad

I back Chucks statement.

Worry about what you have control over, which is YOU and your children.

My stbxw is in LA for work, but she may have brought her posOM with her.

I have the kids and she keeps telling me to let SIL or MIL pick them up, i say NO.

If she cant be with them then I WILL.

Control what you can, be happy, enjoy life, and let go of the negative.

What will be.... will be. 

Read the Secret, the power of postivity is real. Live it.


----------



## VFW

This girl is jerkin' your chain. If this dude was such a good deal, you would have never even been in the picture. Right now you need to be like a duck, flat footed don't give a f**k. Don't sit with her, sit behind her and to your daughters side. You can waive and blow kisses to the little one. Only talk to her about the event. If she tries to engage you in other events, evade and tell her to talk to you later, this isn't the time. Then only talk to her about legal, children or money. Right now you don't give a flip what she is doing today, who she is with, work, nothing. She is not a priority right now, you have more important things in your life. For the next 30 days she is merely your children's mother, nothing else.


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## GutPunch

I know guys, I feel so strong most of the time. I still haven't detached enough. I can't help I loved my wife. She's had close to 3 years to detach from me. I am sure everytime she lied and hid the painkiller addiction from me; she detached. You lie to somebody every day then they become the enemy. Easy to detach then.


I was just simply a doting and loving husband concerned for his wife. Sigh


----------



## Chuck71

All that means is you are the better person. My son, step son who I raised as my own, chose the wrong path. You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. I try my best not to stick my fat arse into situations with kids, I have none. But take care of you, your kids, to he!! with her.......


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## HiRoad

GP - you know me, i have two little ones right know, it hurts like he11 but she is not the woman you married anymore. She is the devil in disguise.

do not get to close to her
do not let her control the convo
do not let her talk to long to you
do not open you heart to her 


She is only the surrogate that carried your children, nothing else.

She will have to face the music in the end, not you.


----------



## devastated3343

Gut, it's painful to read this journal. My situation was very similar, and I can feel what you're going through with every post. Especially the drop-offs with your kids, the pain of watching her make bad decisions and when you said:

"The pain and sorrow are killing me. I know it takes time. I miss the woman I married. She had her faults but she was a good wife until the drugs. I still love her and am having trouble turning the corner myself."

I don't have any answers, at all. But sometimes it helps to know other people are going through something similar. 

I tried dating, maybe 6 months into our separation. A very nice woman took a very strong interest in me, and it really didn't work out. I just didn't have the ability to have strong feelings for her, and the imbalance became really obvious. I liked going to dinner with her, seeing a movie, going to a comedy club, but when it started to get serious, and romantic, I just couldn't match her feelings. I wanted to feel better, and for a while I let her make me feel better about myself, but there's a difference between ego-reinforcement and self-esteem. Everyone's different, but I wouldn't rush into dating. I have to trust that when I'm ready, and happy and healthy that those opportunities will be there for me. And of course it's different with my STBXW, who was able to date right away, but it's not a race, and I think my decisions will be better in the long run.

tldr; if you're ready to date it's a sign you're healthy, but if you're not healthy dating isn't going to fix anything.


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## HiRoad

that is a great poitn devastated, most women check out way before men do.

Most womend once then emotionally check out which is usually during the relationship, they are able to move on mucg quicker than men.

Men take a lot longer usually b/c it is out of the blue.


----------



## keepthefaith

I disagree with the comment 

"most women check out way before men do. Most womend once then emotionally check out which is usually during the relationship, they are able to move on mucg quicker than men. Men take a lot longer usually b/c it is out of the blue."

I think it more depends on how gets left behind. My stbxh detached long ago...left me 6 months ago, and been in new relationship for 5 1/2 months. Me on the other hand I believe in "til death do us part" and I have a very difficult time detaching! Even though he left me, I can't find it in me to be a b to him. I still want him to be happy and I want him to have a great life. (I want the same for me too)


----------



## GutPunch

OK I am lying on the bed with my 6 year old son and he becomes emotional. He asks me "why don't you love Mommy anymore?" I say who told you this? He says Mommy said it. She said this happens with grownups.

UGGGH! Way to put the blame on me you lying, cheating, drug addict POS. Aren't you out on a date with your ex(ex) husband. 

Man I hate to see my son become emotional for solid reasons. I can take go to timeout tears but not these and I surely don't want the blame.


----------



## Chuck71

If she has another prospect, why is she using the child to get at you? As I stated before, she is a drama queen and is using the child as her running board. OK let's review.....cheating wife, neglectful mother, a mother who manipulates her children for her own gain. Are we at the 7th ring of he!! yet Dante? The drain on her tub was pulled, it is draining, she will grab anything she can. Let her drain. That is the only reality she would realize.


----------



## GutPunch

Really? Could my son just asked her a question and she just answered it in a way that she doesn't look bad? IDK if she would intentionally manipulate my boy just to get me stirred up. I just feel she can't look in the mirror and see the truth. 

I guess I don't even mention this too her, correct? I don't like being the blame for my busted family. Sure I'm not perfect but I didn't do drugs or cheat or lie. She better own it. 

I told my son that I did love his mother but we had grown up problems that make it where we cannot live together right now. 

Ugh! I wish I didn't care so much.


----------



## Chuck71

She knows you know and doesn't care. She is setting you up to be the a-hole. Through your kids. Morals? oh he!! no....


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> She knows you know and doesn't care. She is setting you up to be the a-hole. Through your kids. Morals? oh he!! no....


I don't engage in this right?


----------



## Chuck71

i say no, moms always get benefit of doubt. so do not set yourself up. do not explain moms issues, a 6 y/o will not understand. if you do, she will paint you as the a-hole. trust me......same game.....you're above this.....she isn't


----------



## Chuck71

Any mother who would put their child's well being after their own, would you want that? A mother's love is what fractured us, at least my psycho did put her child before me....think about it......


----------



## GutPunch

I wasn't talking about engaging with my son. LOL I was thinking about asking her to watch what she says to our kids. Explaining what happened and how it paints me to be a bad guy. I was thinking it may have been an innocent mistake. 

Daddy doesn't love Mommy anymore. Really? Is that what happened? If I remember correctly, I got the ole ILYBNILWY speech. Or how about I respect you as a person and father but we have drifted apart. Or I just can't give you want you want right now. SMH

Or Maybe you are smack dab right in the middle of an EA thats fixing to go physical with another drug addict. Maybe that could be the problem! I dunno!


----------



## GutPunch

STBXW came into my work today and gave me a child support check. We had talked about splitting son's baseball registration. 

She screams at me heres your check and thats all you are getting a$$ hole and storms out. WTH? 

I feel like texting her to find out what the problem is. Bad idea right. She never gets mad like that. I want to know what happened.

How do I handle this? Help please!


----------



## HiRoad

Why would she do this? Is this abnormal for you?

Document this, and her behavior at your work. Could furhter your case. 

Why not just have a garnishment? OR have her mail you a check?


----------



## HiRoad

You must ignore, her, feeding into it will only makes things worse.

you know that GP.


----------



## GutPunch

She is usually not a drama queen and rarely ever has she raised her voice at me. I am curious as to what she is mad about. I think though the correect route is to ignore her and stay out of the drama. Everytime I see her my stomach turns into knots. This sux.

As usual, my first inclination is to try to fix it. No more!


----------



## Chuck71

By her actions, are you sure she is not the child? As I said, the drain has been pulled. Funny she speaks to you in that way when she bowed to white circular god from a pharmacy. She reminds me of Demi Moore from St Elmo's Fire. Next time she screams at you say "i'm sorry you feel that way'. As for engaging with her about what she told your son......why? She knew it was wrong. It would be like jabbing your eye with a thumb tac and somehow expecting it not to hurt.


----------



## GutPunch

Drive her more crazy if I just ignore her. She knows I am the type of guy to go chasing her down to try and fix the problem. Maybe I did do something wrong, but if you don't tell me what it is then i don't have to worry about it. I am getting there folks, slowly getting there.


----------



## HiRoad

Yes, as hard as it is do NOTHING. 

This will help you stay strong and out of her head mess.

You got it man!


----------



## Chuck71

Nothing you did wrong, her playhouse is collapsing. She can not accept the fact you will not come in to fix it. She started all this, now she is getting to see it. I will sport you 10:6 odds her first love from junior high will be the next guy in line to fancy her interest.


----------



## HiRoad

Chuck71 said:


> Nothing you did wrong, her playhouse is collapsing. She can not accept the fact you will not come in to fix it. She started all this, now she is getting to see it. I will sport you 10:6 odds her first love from junior high will be the next guy in line to fancy her interest.


I will take those odds on a parlay that her elementary BF is next followed by neighbor, and some poor store clerk. 

You cant think about fixing her, she has to deal with this on her own. 

You = Calm, cool, and dispassionate.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> Nothing you did wrong, her playhouse is collapsing. She can not accept the fact you will not come in to fix it. She started all this, now she is getting to see it. I will sport you 10:6 odds her first love from junior high will be the next guy in line to fancy her interest.


:lol::rofl:


I may have told someone the truth about her using drugs and cheating and leaving and it may have gotten back to her? What am I supposed to tell folks when they ask me why I've lost so much weight? P-90X NO, i Tell them I got back stabbed and gut punched in my sleep.


----------



## HiRoad

> I may have told someone the truth about her using drugs and cheating and leaving and it may have gotten back to her?


Do NOT try to figure this out, you cant.

Leave her be.

She made her bed, and I am sure it wont be her last episode.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-Look at it this way.....you are most likely the greatest guy she has ever know. Odds are....best one she will ever know. She lost her kingdom.....go mingle with the serfs. GP you on the other hand can break away with no regret.....and have a chance at having what you thought you had with her.


----------



## HiRoad

Why do you want to be with a woman like this anyhow?

Think about it, even if she is the mother to your children.

Is this the type of woman you want for your kids?

Detach, let her go, if she comes back .. its on your terms and hopefully she has done her own 180. 

But dont count on it, get on with your life.

I am trying to do the same thing, hard as hell. But must be done.


----------



## happyman64

Hey Gut

CHeaters always hate the truth. Keep telling it.

HM64


----------



## GutPunch

Phone Call From STBXW ...... I don't answer

Text Message: I know you are busy. I would like to apologize to you if you'll let me and not justify but share what has been going on and how I am dealing with it?

How do I deal with that? We haven't really talked in 3 months.


----------



## Chuck71

Mrs. GutPunch: "I am really glad you are reflecting on these issues. I would enjoy to discuss this with you but I request you seek IC first and if you wish, I will attend with you."


----------



## Chuck71

GP.......she may have overplayed her hand and she has no more chips left. Trust me on this dude, guy to guy......her last option is to throw her 'snatch' at you. DO NOT FALL for it. Please......... she is considering throwing up the white flag.......therefore you have the ability to call the shots. Don't let this chance slip away.


----------



## GutPunch

I know better Chuck, in my state the act of snatch taking is equal to forgiveness in the eyes of the court. My lawyer has already warned me on this and to be truthful right now I don't want it. 

I like how everything is about her. What I am going thru how I am dealing with it. 

She probably just wants to apologize and get that off her chest or she may want to apologize for the outburst at my work. Who knows


----------



## Chuck71

I sense in an abstract way, mine will resort to snatch when the clock gets close to zero. I can't accept what I don't want. She does not gravitate all arond my heart anymore. MC may save it or kill it. But at least there.....there's a chance. But no....like the way I saw her Sunday (yet to post) my heart still pulls toward her but my head says 'oh he!! no'. 

If you choose to meet her....be very cautious. Fix your eyes on a street sign and listen to how she presents it more as what she says. This lol was exactly the way my 2nd love tried to get back with me after a great deal of time apart. Result: we did date but she never came close to "the one" she carried inside me for years in the past


----------



## HiRoad

GP, this is all a part of the process. 

The game is starting to change and the control is starting to shift (maybe)

Strategize, make the convos about you, what you want, what she needs to do for you.

If she appoligizes, great, your response is "ok" or "I understand that feeling"

Chuck is right, dont let your heart get in the way of your head. She has alot or a$$ kissing to do before R is even mentioned by her.


----------



## happyman64

So Gut

Are you prepared to listen to her apology?

Are you willing to listen to what has been going on since she left and how she is dealing with your Separation/Divorce?

The next call is yours to make......

HM64


----------



## GutPunch

I listened .... She seems to be reaching out to me. I kept my life preserver on board my boat. Told her she needed to do any heavy lifting as I have some pretty high walls built up.


----------



## happyman64

Good for you.

I am glad you listened and held onto the life preserver.

Patience.

Watch her actions.


----------



## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> I listened .... She seems to be reaching out to me. I kept my life preserver on board my boat. Told her she needed to do any heavy lifting as I have some pretty high walls built up.


Well done! Hold the hi ground, it is going to HAVE to be on your terms.

Even then there is no guarantee.

If she varies on bit, give her "das boot", ok.

Your strong, you have been through h3ll and back, you got this.

Do not falter.


----------



## GutPunch

Well folks ..... I get a phone call at work today. The fog has lifted. You people know your stuff. I went to her apartment and she is in pain. I even felt bad for her. 

And yes Chuck she tried to put it on me ... and I respectfully declined. I told her I wasn't there. She asked me to see a marriage counselor with her and for me to put the divorce on hold. 

She asked if we could have a family night tonight. I declined saying I do not want to put the kids thru any kind of false hope. Agreed to go on a date with her on Sat. night.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Well folks ..... I get a phone call at work today. The fog has lifted. You people know your stuff. I went to her apartment and she is in pain. I even felt bad for her.
> 
> And yes Chuck she tried to put it on me ... and I respectfully declined. I told her I wasn't there. She asked me to see a marriage counselor with her and for me to put the divorce on hold.
> 
> She asked if we could have a family night tonight. I declined saying I do not want to put the kids thru any kind of false hope. Agreed to go on a date with her on Sat. night.


You agreed to a date. Did you agree to MC with her and to put D on hold?


----------



## HiRoad

GP - remember you values, morals, and you deserve better.

She needs to do the majority of the work here.

I am glad the fog has lifted, I am happy for you, but be cautious.

This may be a ploy to get to see your D6.

Keep coming here, we are here to help.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> You agreed to a date. Did you agree to MC with her and to put D on hold?


Agreed to see marriage counselor. Have not put the D on hold.


----------



## Chuck71

D goes on as planned, wake her arse up.
what do YOU want
is this a temp smoke n mirrors
accept date 1, reject 2 and 3
wanna work, show me
show don't tell-Rush (band) listen to it


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Agreed to see marriage counselor. Have not put the D on hold.


Personally I would make her go to MC and show progress before going on a date. Otherwise the date will likely become an M discussion, which should happen in MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> Personally I would make her go to MC and show progress before going on a date. Otherwise the date will likely become an M discussion, which should happen in MC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Zillard, Nice input. I will tell her this is a date only. All discussions of M and R are for MC session.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> D goes on as planned, wake her arse up.
> what do YOU want
> is this a temp smoke n mirrors
> accept date 1, reject 2 and 3
> wanna work, show me
> show don't tell-Rush (band) listen to it



Living in the limelight the universal dream....for those who wish to see.

Neil Peart best drummer ever


----------



## HiRoad

Could it be that she is coming down from her "high" and possibly slipping into a depression GP?

Just lookin out, be careful.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-Rush......Big Wheel 1991 from Roll the Bones.......
when the dust settles, what do you want, YOU


----------



## GutPunch

Sigh....to go back in time


----------



## GutPunch

HiRoad said:


> Could it be that she is coming down from her "high" and possibly slipping into a depression GP?
> 
> Just lookin out, be careful.




Hi, she may be starting to "feel" again. She hit the depression when she detoxed herself. Her body lost the ability to produce dopamine and melatonin and all those other important sleep and feel good drugs. She rewrites history thinking its the marriage. 

Her problem is the you can't love someone else unless you love yourself scenario. She definitely needs work in this department.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Zillard, Nice input. I will tell her this is a date only. All discussions of M and R are for MC session.


Actually why not kill a bird with two stones.

Go on a date. Somewhere nice and quiet. Pull out your laptop/ipad and review marriage counselors in your area. Preferably someone with infidelity experience.

Narrow down your choices and pick a few.

Then let her schedule it.

Watch her actions. Make her show effort.

How is that for a date???


----------



## HiRoad

Thats using your head HM!


----------



## Chuck71

The MC is a must. If she does not go, no dates. Be careful she knows your weak points and she will exploit them or attempt to. She will bring up some of the happiest times the two of you had. Don't take the bait. She will talk about the kids and all the good times, don't take the bait. She will try to guilt you back. She will not ask you on the first date but she will after a few and a couple of MC's....to move back in. I would not recommend that. That would shift too much control back to her. Zillard made a good point as did HM....on the date centralize the topic to MC. This will be a long and drawn out process and can not be fixed after two months. You may have problems dealing with her PA. There's a place on lost in space's thread where a few of us listed excuses females usually use. Check it out, you will probably hear most of them. The post was right before Christmas I believe.


----------



## HiRoad

GP i cant say this enough, you are in dangerous waters.

Becareful she may be a succubus.


----------



## devastated3343

I know so little, and am going through this for the first time so I have little right to give advice. 

There are times when one person tries to start a new life, but they later realize that their new life takes effort in ways they never expected. Change is a violent, destructive act that leaves nothing of what was in its wake. Sometimes after the change people get overwhelmed by everything they have to rebuild. A person may run back to what is familiar and try to regain some control over their lives by removing some uncertainty. This is often why people will quickly jump into new relationships. 

The point is that sometimes the motivation isn't always to fix what was originally broken, but just to feel better for a while before slipping back into the same routines, the same arguments, the same bad behaviors or boundaries. 

There are countless relationships where people got back together after a split, made it work for six more months and then broke up again, because there is no mechanism for change. 

Just a word of warning. Real growth happens AFTER real change. Wish you the best.


----------



## GutPunch

STBXW comes to son's Bball practice and has made dinner for all of us. It's a roast all packaged up for me to take home. Wow! What is going on? So atypical of her. She also told me that she has been going to Narcotics Anonymous meetings and seeing an IC. 

My family and IC think I should attend MC with her. I am scared. Could I ever trust her as I did. Help?


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> STBXW comes to son's Bball practice and has made dinner for all of us. It's a roast all packaged up for me to take home. Wow! What is going on? So atypical of her. She also told me that she has been going to Narcotics Anonymous meetings and seeing an IC.
> 
> My family and IC think I should attend MC with her. I am scared. Could I ever trust her as I did. Help?


Will she do what it takes to prove that she is worthy of that trust? You can't blindly. If you decide you want to try, you need to seriously gauge her level of commitment and decide what you must SEE in order to trust. 

It can be rebuilt. But not without disclosure, transparency, and her willingness to stop any behaviors that led to the trust being broken. For as long as you need.


----------



## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> STBXW comes to son's Bball practice and has made dinner for all of us. It's a roast all packaged up for me to take home. Wow! What is going on? So atypical of her. She also told me that she has been going to Narcotics Anonymous meetings and seeing an IC.
> 
> My family and IC think I should attend MC with her. I am scared. Could I ever trust her as I did. Help?


She is putting her best foot foward.

This is the time for YOU to decide what it would take for her to get better.

A few sessions of IC are not going to cut it. She has been harboring these problems a long time. It is hard to un-doo bad habits.

Talk is cheap, attend with her if you feel enclined. 

Trust but verify. 

Trust is not given easliy, it is earned over time, lots of time.


----------



## happyman64

Of course you should go. She is the mother of your children.

And you can verify her willingness to fix her issues.

Seeing is the start to believing.

And who knows, you might learn something.


----------



## Chuck71

I will reserve my thoughts until later except for, yes attend with her MC.....NA if she asks. But at the same time you best begin to search within yourself about forgiveness. You may want to start a thread in CWI. If you do, let me know....I've followed your journey awhile.


----------



## HiRoad

Yes please let us know, i am still following you.


----------



## GutPunch

STBXW comes to son's bball game at 8:00AM this morning before she went to work. Brought me breakfast. :smthumbup:

Tonight is date night .... Wish me luck!


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> STBXW comes to son's bball game at 8:00AM this morning before she went to work. Brought me breakfast. :smthumbup:
> 
> Tonight is date night .... Wish me luck!


I wish you strength, composure, and resolve. 

You don't need luck.


----------



## Chuck71

Spot on Zillard! I'm just hoping GP doesn't fall for the snatch. She knows him like a book........

Zillard-the funeral i mentioned, she didn't show (thank God)


----------



## GutPunch

OH Chuck! I think I fell for it. Now what do I do. She's just so attractive. Help me please. She seems truly remorseful wants counseling attends NA meetings and has been clean for almost a year. That snatch wields all kind of power over me. I feel it sucked all my power and control out of me. I feel helpless and out of control.


----------



## VFW

GutPunch said:


> OH Chuck! I think I fell for it. Now what do I do. She's just so attractive. Help me please. She seems truly remorseful wants counseling attends NA meetings and has been clean for almost a year. That snatch wields all kind of power over me. I feel it sucked all my power and control out of me. I feel helpless and out of control.


This is why I recommended a separation to allow for both parties to gain perspective. You would have had a chance to heal and she to show her true strips. As is there are less consequences for her actions. Now that you have gone fast track with the reconciliation that is all OBE. 

You now are flying by the seat of your pants and have to make a gut feeling call. You just have to do the best you can, you could get hurt, but f' it, no guts no glory. I wish you well.


----------



## GutPunch

We are still separated and I have know plans on letting her move into the family home. I do plan on attending MC with her and I do plan on removing her from the 180. I do plan on making an attempt to spend time with her and our kids. I feel as though I have lost some control but I will not rugsweep this. Now is the time for me to be cordial and loving (while watching from above 50,000 ft).


----------



## GutPunch

I told my best friend and he verbally abused me. He thinks that in know way way I should even consider working things out. She had her opportunity to work things out and she chose to cheat. 

Input?


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

GutPunch said:


> I told my best friend and he verbally abused me. He thinks that in know way way I should even consider working things out. She had her opportunity to work things out and she chose to cheat.
> 
> Input?


Its your life Gut. If you are like me you know she shouldn't get another opportunity but it doesn't mean you don't want it. If I had the shot I would take albeit very carefully. She would have to have some pretty serious remorse and a great apology ready. Jumping right back in like nothing ever happened is not the way to go. Good luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> She had her opportunity to work things out and she chose to cheat.


Sounds accurate to me. 

But ultimately depends on what you want and are willing to work with.


----------



## GutPunch

STBXW is now officially pulling back. I cannot take this emotional rollercoaster anymore  Says she is not well and needs to get better and work on herself. Its more anxiety for me. She just is a basket case. 

Man this sux back to the pity party for me. I think I just need to divorce her


----------



## Chuck71

Snatch cloud judgement
Slow down the 2012 Ford GP reconnection
You show pain for 8 years
She show remourse for same
Accountability


----------



## Chuck71

She's cast her web. Back away, return NC. But she DOES need to work on herself. She knows you want to attend MC with her so let her set them up and let you know, do not ask her when. That makes you appear needy.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> She's cast her web. Back away, return NC. But she DOES need to work on herself. She knows you want to attend MC with her so let her set them up and let you know, do not ask her when. That makes you appear needy.


Back to square one. I guess. Why do I love her so much? My poor kids need their mother. Sigh! I shouldn't push her for the MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

She needs to push MC.....not you. You didn't screw around. She thinks she has you back by the snatch. Give it three days of NC.....she'll realize her web didn't catch you. If she swoops in again, you need to be more Rambo......and let her know......no more freaking head games.


----------



## GutPunch

Tha pain and anxiety are back. Why would she reach out like that? That doesn't make any sense. Hey we reconnected time to get all weird. 

My kids need their Mother. I am dying here. No support group hardly, owning my own business (clients don't care about my problems), kids homework and extracurricular activities. 

I don't want a nervous break down. Can she not imagine what I'm going thru. Told me it would be selfish of her to come back now. That she would be using me as a crutch to take care of her.

I cannot handle my load. Haven't had time to pay bills or get groceries. I am suffering.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Can she not imagine what I'm going thru.


Sorry GutPunch, but at the moment she is too self absorbed to even try to care.



GutPunch said:


> Told me it would be selfish of her to come back now. That she would be using me as a crutch to take care of her.


Yes, playing the martyr makes her feel better. She thinks she is doing you a favor. Best thing for you to do? See it as a favor and start moving on! You deserve better.



GutPunch said:


> I cannot handle my load. Haven't had time to pay bills or get groceries.


Step up and find a way. I know you can. If you can come here you can pay bills.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-Reclaim your life. You do not live through her. Let her return to spinning out of control. That seems to be what she does when you aren't in the picture.


----------



## angelpixie

GP -- Zil is right on. Make a schedule for yourself of a few things you HAVE to do each day. Not too much while you're still getting on your feet. Set up automatic bill pay for whatever you can. It's a life-saver, especially now, when the stress of all this makes your memory work like crap. Take one day and make that your task. One time, and it's done.

Next day, look at your fridge and cupboards and see what you need to get by. Don't go crazy buying stuff, especially if you're not eating much. But buy some healthy snacks. One thing that helped me out a ton in the early days were the lower-calorie meal replacement shakes with the extra protein and vitamins (not the high calorie ones). I could grab and drink one of those a day and at least I knew I was getting some good stuff in me. 

If you set yourself up to do too much at one time, and you don't accomplish it all, you end up feeling worse. Set your goals low, and work on one thing at a time. 

We've been through these same things, GP. You can do this. The emotion part takes time, but when you can start taking some control in your day-to-day life, it actually helps in the emotional department, too.


----------



## old timer

Gut - get to the doc and get some anti-depressants. STAT


----------



## HiRoad

GP although this is a temp backslide, you MUST go NC

Do not engage her, act indifferent and aloof.

Do not show her that this bothers you, if she pulls back, fine your ok with it.

Have some resolve not to let her get to close to you.

You have the strength to do this, i know you do 

Go back to your 180.


----------



## GutPunch

Anti-depressants really? I am kinda scared of them. What makes you think I need them.


----------



## HiRoad

HiR's presription - a 3+ mile run, go out, get support, meditate.

I was on lexapro and it sucked, a handful of cashews works as well for depression too, look it up

**also if you drink alcohol, smoke, eat bad, or drink caffeine STOP, this does not help**


----------



## angelpixie

I have to disagree, Hi -- everyone is different. Not everyone needs an A/D, but for some people, they do help. And I dearly love cashews, but I've never felt a mood boost, no matter how many I've eaten.  

But I totally agree on your last point about the alcohol, smoking, eating poorly (bad choices, too much or too little), etc. Self-medicating doesn't help. Keep yourself sharp.


----------



## HiRoad

angelpixie said:


> I have to disagree, Hi -- everyone is different. Not everyone needs an A/D, but for some people, they do help.


Your right, I am not a big fan of meds.

I try at all costs to go natural.

If a caveaman got depressed he went out killed something ate it and found a new mate. It was called "Caveman therapy"

Im not condoning this behavior, but it says alot!


----------



## angelpixie

Mmm, yes, but what?


----------



## HiRoad

angelpixie said:


> Mmm, yes, but what?


If a caveman can do it so can I!!


----------



## old timer

What do you think the caveman's life expectancy was?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## K.C.

As someone that has battled long term major depression, I have to say do not discount medication.

I am taking Fluoxetine (Prozac) atm and while I credit a change in mindset as much as the meds, they have definitely been a big help to me. There are different types of AD meds that work differently and have different side effects.

If you have been feeling depressed for a while there is no harm in seeking help. Let the profesionals do what they are trained for and take their advice, this may or may not be to take meds but I ignored medical advice in the past and regret it so much. My life could have been in such a better place right now if I had listened.


----------



## angelpixie

True, K.C. Meds aren't going to fix things by themselves, but they just might help.


----------



## HiRoad

old timer said:


> What do you think the caveman's life expectancy was?
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, but depression was not the reason


----------



## GutPunch

Got a letter from my lawyer asking me to set up an appointment. Thus it begins. I'm so sad. She cheated. I have to divorce her. If I try to reconcile, she could change her mind and then I'm the one alone in an apartment. 

Man I wish I didn't let her manipulate like she did this past week.


----------



## GutPunch

OK TAM friends, I am at a crossroads. Everyone knows my situation with the walkaway wife with drug issues. My heart still longs for her and her latest attempt at reconciliation has really taken an emotional toll on me.

It is a rare occasion that a man would get primary custody of two children. If I divorce, I would probably get this without a fight. Child support would be in the $1500 to $2000 a month range. 

I love my children more than anything. I could not bear to not tuck them into bed every night. I love my wife but I would be an idiot not to divorce her. She could come back and flip the situation on me. My heart and brain are fighting.

Then I think what would R teach my kids. It's OK to be a doormat or am I teaching them forgiveness. Hell, she has pulled back anyway.


----------



## angelpixie

GP -- have you gone to any type of counseling/support group for family members of people with drug or addiction problems? It might be helpful to interact with people who are dealing with some of those same types of emotional pulls towards someone with a dependency problem.

The heart is not always right, contrary to movies and novels. Unless she is cleaned up and has proven that she is totally committed to do whatever it takes for R, don't even consider it. The chaos is worse for your kids than a divorce will be. I'm a little confused by what you're saying in the second paragraph -- you're saying you think you would be able to get primary custody? If so, why would you have to pay child support? 

You can teach your children about forgiveness without R. You don't have to R in order to forgive; forgiveness (when/if you want to) can also be a part of moving forward on your own.

The part about not being with your kids every night is, for me, the worst and most unfair part of this entire divorce process. That the walkaway has the power to disrupt the type of parent the 'left behind' spouse gets to be is the hardest part to deal with for many of us. There's no easy answer, except to make the most of the time you do have with your kids, and to arrange as much time with them as you possibly can. We've been able to still see our son almost every day. It means we see each other more often, it meant that I had to start dealing face to face with OW many months ago, but my son is worth all that.


----------



## GutPunch

angelpixie said:


> GP -- have you gone to any type of counseling/support group for family members of people with drug or addiction problems? It might be helpful to interact with people who are dealing with some of those same types of emotional pulls towards someone with a dependency problem.I see an IC that is all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heart is not always right, contrary to movies and novels. Unless she is cleaned up and has proven that she is totally committed to do whatever it takes for R, don't even consider it. The chaos is worse for your kids than a divorce will be. I'm a little confused by what you're saying in the second paragraph -- you're saying you think you would be able to get primary custody? If so, why would you have to pay child support?
> 
> 
> 
> She would have to pay the support. She seemed totally committed to the R and I think I got a little needy and she pulled back. She said she needed to work on herself and it wouldn't be fair to me. This all happened in less than a week I might add.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can teach your children about forgiveness without R. You don't have to R in order to forgive; forgiveness (when/if you want to) can also be a part of moving forward on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wanted her back so bad and to see her trying was awesome. When she pulled back, the pain was akin to DDay ALMOST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The part about not being with your kids every night is, for me, the worst and most unfair part of this entire divorce process. That the walkaway has the power to disrupt the type of parent the 'left behind' spouse gets to be is the hardest part to deal with for many of us. There's no easy answer, except to make the most of the time you do have with your kids, and to arrange as much time with them as you possibly can. We've been able to still see our son almost every day. It means we see each other more often, it meant that I had to start dealing face to face with OW many months ago, but my son is worth all that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is why I feel lucky to have my children as much as I do. She gets them every other weekend and wednesdays 3-7. If I reconcile, she could possibly strip that away from me. A frightning thought to me. However, like you said, she is not 100% into the R therefore I must move on.
Click to expand...


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Then I think what would R teach my kids. It's OK to be a doormat or am I teaching them forgiveness. Hell, she has pulled back anyway.


I've come to believe that what this ultimately teaches your children highly depends on how you handle either situation. 

If you rugsweep and take her back without true remorse and commitment... doormat; give in. 

If she comes back with true remorse and commitment, and you work on forgiveness while she works on rebuilding trust... with hard work you can overcome and achieve! 

If you don't take her back and you wallow in sadness and succumb to bitterness and anger without ever really moving on... lack of strength; give up.

If you don't take her back and move on to be a happy individual and never speak ill of their mother... healthy boundaries; strength; and respect for yourself and others.


----------



## VFW

You have answered your own question, think big picture here. What is the most important thing? The children are the obvious answer here. Deal with that first and then deal with yourself. You are addicted to this drug called your exwife. I am not throwing rocks at you cowboy as I did the same thing for 5 years of roller coaster rides. I hope that you do not expose your children or yourself to this process as it is very painful and unproductive. You need some time and distance away from her to wean yourself off the drug.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-Refer to my posts from the other day. Do you want to be swept up in her cycle of pulling closer and pulling away? She is desperate to find some power in this situation. She had none until recently. You lost a battle.....not the war. Return to how you were composing yourself a couple weeks ago. Cut out the dates until she progresses in MC / NA. Attend if she asks. You were doing really good before her spider web attempt. You can again.


----------



## GutPunch

I saw that Chuck she really makes her self vulnerable. LOL


----------



## GutPunch

Dear XXXXXXX,

I enjoyed the time we spent together over the past week. I can really see why I fell in love with you so long ago. However, I am holding on to what used to be and what could have been. The reality is our marriage is irrevocably damaged. I will never again be able to look at you as I did many years ago. I must move on.

Should I send it or go back to staying dark. I hate the feeling that my ex is all smug over at her apartment thinking she's in control because she pulled her skirt up and boo hoo'd. I'm such a sap. 

I want my power back. Will sending the above give it to me? Probably should just go dark again and avoid her at all costs?

I know I have to let go but why is it so hard? She cheated, should be cut and dry.


----------



## angelpixie

Do NOT send it. If you feel you really need to, type it up in a word doc and save it. 

You can always send it later.

Stay dark.


----------



## angelpixie

It's hard for a number of reasons. You're not just letting go of a person, you're letting go of a life plan. You thought you'd be with her 'forever' having a 'typical' family life. You're mourning that.

It happens to all of us, and it takes a while to grieve, just like it does when someone dies. And this involves feelings that aren't even there when someone dies, like rejection, confusion, etc.

Keep working on detaching -- Keep reminding yourself of why you shouldn't be with her and focus on that. Focus on you and your kids and going forward. That will help with the detachment process.

In a lot of cases, what the left behind spouse discovers is that there was more than love going on. There was probably a good-sized portion of codependency and other unhealthy attachment there, too.


----------



## Chuck71

DO NOT SEND! Angel is right. And the letter would let her know she got in your head. She will try it again. How's this......night before D is final she shows up in an overcoat with not much under it. Honey drop the D.............yeah......I know of people who did it and had it done to. Dig your trenches........let her run on spin cycle. Sit back and watch.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Dear XXXXXXX,
> 
> I enjoyed the time we spent together over the past week. I can really see why I fell in love with you so long ago. However, I am holding on to what used to be and what could have been. The reality is our marriage is irrevocably damaged. I will never again be able to look at you as I did many years ago. I must move on.
> 
> Should I send it or go back to staying dark. I hate the feeling that my ex is all smug over at her apartment thinking she's in control because she pulled her skirt up and boo hoo'd. I'm such a sap.
> 
> I want my power back. Will sending the above give it to me? Probably should just go dark again and avoid her at all costs?
> 
> I know I have to let go but why is it so hard? She cheated, should be cut and dry.


And Gut,

Why do you think your ex is feeling smug and thinks she is in control?

I think she is terribly mixed up and hurting too.

Not justifying her actions but take it for what it is.

She is messed up and has messed you up in the process.


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> And Gut,
> 
> Why do you think your ex is feeling smug and thinks she is in control?
> 
> I think she is terribly mixed up and hurting too.
> 
> Not justifying her actions but take it for what it is.
> 
> She is messed up and has messed you up in the process.



Your right I am assuming. She could have had one of those NA people tell her that she wasn't ready for all this and that she needed to fix herself first.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Your right I am assuming. She could have had one of those NA people tell her that she wasn't ready for all this and that she needed to fix herself first.


Possible. Also possible is you caved, which is what she thought she wanted, but didn't really respect you for it. 

She is in a fragile state. You exhibited strength with your 180. She tested it. You stumbled. 

Doesn't mean you are weak. Means you are human. Dust off and get back on the path!


----------



## GutPunch

My wife brought the kids home as customary on Wednesday night. She then tries to talk to me about my visit with the IC. I told her the IC 
told me that I was just trying to hold onto what was and what could have been. She asked about marital counseling I told her I didn't think
It would do me any good. I told her that she crossed a line that you don't cross and I have to move forward. I could not live my life lookingover my shoulder. I felt she was reaching out again but not as strongly. She then tells me she loves me and understands and respects my wishes.

Why do I feel so bad? Is this how my beautiful family ends?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

I feel as if I let my family down last night.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I feel as if I let my family down last night.


Is fidelity one of your core values? Is respect?

Think like so:

I treat people with respect 
I am always supportive of my family
I am honest in all my dealings with others
I am faithful to my spouse 
*... and I expect the same.*


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I feel as if I let my family down last night.


I can understand how you feel though. I had given in on so many of my core values that I lacked healthy boundaries. When I started improving on my communication of them and defending them, it was easy to feel as though I was being stubborn and hard nosed... The bad guy in the situation. 

But you are reacting to a bad situation for the sake of yourself and your children... In order to create a better one. Correct?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

I agree Zillard. I am reacting to a bad situation. I just know my wife is in there somewhere. The drugs stole her from me. We just had such a good relationship for 10 years before she decided to try a pain pill. I am not codependent, my world did not revolve around her. I just loved my wife and had alot of hopes and dreams for our family.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I agree Zillard. I am reacting to a bad situation. I just know my wife is in there somewhere. The drugs stole her from me. We just had such a good relationship for 10 years before she decided to try a pain pill. I am not codependent, my world did not revolve around her. I just loved my wife and had alot of hopes and dreams for our family.


I don't think one has to "be a codependent" in order to fall into codependent behaviors and thought patterns. 

From Wikipedia: It also often involves placing a lower priority on one's own needs, while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others.

From WebMD: “Codependency, by definition, means making the relationship more important to you than you are to yourself,” she tells WebMD. “It’s kind of a weird phrase, and it doesn’t sound like it means a one-sided relationship. But that’s what it is. It means you’re trying to make the relationship work with someone else who’s not.”

I think a vast majority of BSs fall into this after Dday.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> I think a vast majority of BSs fall into this after Dday.



The HUGE majority of Betrayed Spouses fall into codependent patterns LONG BEFORE D-Day.

The loss of respect from their partner is one factor that promotes cheating.


----------



## zillard

The dumper tells the other spouse that the relationship is over (infidelity or no) or gives the ILYBNILWY speech. 

The dumpee then starts the grieving process. 

Until the dumpee reaches the stage of acceptance, they often fall into a codependent state of mind.

This is where the 180 comes in and why it is so important for the dumpee. 

Being honest with myself, I see that when I first tried to implement the 180 I was doing it in order to get a response and attempt to save the relationship. This made it frustrating, confusing, and difficult to maintain.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> The HUGE majority of Betrayed Spouses fall into codependent patterns LONG BEFORE D-Day.
> 
> The loss of respect from their partner is one factor that promotes cheating.


This is also correct. But not always. Cheating does happen in good marriages too.


----------



## 06Daddio08

GutPunch said:


> The HUGE majority of Betrayed Spouses fall into codependent patterns LONG BEFORE D-Day.
> 
> The loss of respect from their partner is one factor that promotes cheating.


The individual themselves are the ones who promote cheating.

No other outside 'sources' can promote such a thing.

Either they have the morals to never cheat.

Or they don't.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-You made a choice. Nothing says you can't change your mind sometime down the road. But for the present, you do not feel you want to be around her. She knows why. That does not mean she should stop NA or MC. You work on you, she works on herself. Maybe down the road.......have a date night.


----------



## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> LOL My online profile reads, I'm really bummed will you go out with me. Need someone to lay on sofa with me. Do you like kids cuz I got a couple of strong willed ones for ya. Stella, thanks 1st time I laughed all day




I got two strong willed ones to that test me daily


----------



## GutPunch

lee101981 said:


> I got two strong willed ones to that test me daily


Probably got it from their Mommy. lol


----------



## 06Daddio08

lee101981 said:


> I got two strong willed ones to that test me daily


Oh boy.

My daughter can be a Diva.

My son can be a hard head.

The joy!

:rofl:


----------



## HiRoad

GP, find you inner strength, core values, and stick to them

Create your own set of rules to live by.

I can attest that there are pleny of W out there that are capable of loving you the way you deserve to be loved.


----------



## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> Probably got it from their Mommy. lol


I have to admit being a single parent with no back up is hard sometimes... I look forward to being able to soak in the tub without hearing fighting...

I am the first one to admit I am a strong, hard headed female... and very independent.


----------



## Stella Moon

zillard said:


> I don't think one has to "be a codependent" in order to fall into codependent behaviors and thought patterns.
> 
> From Wikipedia: It also often involves placing a lower priority on one's own needs, while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others.
> 
> From WebMD: “Codependency, by definition, means making the relationship more important to you than you are to yourself,” she tells WebMD. “It’s kind of a weird phrase, and it doesn’t sound like it means a one-sided relationship. But that’s what it is. *It means you’re trying to make the relationship work with someone else who’s not.”*I think a vast majority of BSs fall into this after Dday.



Ya...that was me...for sure...

Don't mean to hijack...ya know when your reading along and a word or phrase just jumps at you...


----------



## GutPunch

Well...dropped the S6 off at first grade and took D3 to his Mommy's 
F'n apartment this morning. Looks like I'm back to square one with her. I think everyone is right about her only responding to strength. I just hope my telling her that the divorce is inevitable and I didn't want MC will wake her up. Doesn't seem to have worked, but my old lady can be one stubbborn mule. Do you believe she really wantsa this time to work on herself? Could be true. I am certain that is all she hears at the Narcotics anonymous meetings. 

No kids this weekend. No plans. 


Man that one week of reconcilition set me back.


----------



## zillard

It doesn't matter what is in her head or what her motives are. The more we bang our heads against that wall the more bruised WE get. Not a lesson easily learned.

I feel for you man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lee101981

I thought u had a profile up on a dating site?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Well...dropped the S6 off at first grade and took D3 to his Mommy's
> F'n apartment this morning. Looks like I'm back to square one with her. I think everyone is right about her only responding to strength. I just hope my telling her that the divorce is inevitable and I didn't want MC will wake her up. Doesn't seem to have worked, but my old lady can be one stubbborn mule. Do you believe she really wantsa this time to work on herself? Could be true. I am certain that is all she hears at the Narcotics anonymous meetings.
> 
> No kids this weekend. No plans.
> 
> 
> Man that one week of reconcilition set me back.


Then make some plans.......

THe only person that loses is you. But only if you let it happen.

Do not let it happen.


----------



## GutPunch

lee101981 said:


> I thought u had a profile up on a dating site?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea did you read it? Lonely and depressed 40 year old man with two high maintenance babies needs companion to lay on sofa with and wallow in self pity and long for ex spouse.

Remarkably...No takers


----------



## lee101981

No where is it? Why do you have it up if you want it to work out with your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

lee101981 said:


> No where is it? Why do you have it up if you want it to work out with your wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Bahaaa That was sarcasm. No I don't have one up. I'm not ready. Thinking about it though.


----------



## lee101981

Hard to read sarcasm on a screen
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Why does my wife refuse to fight for me? She shows me a glimmer of hope and then pushes me away. Can you not work on yourself and help raise the kids? Just a very blue Friday for me.


----------



## lee101981

You need to quit letting her get to you and focus on you and the kids! You are giving her the power. Make some plans this weekend .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lee101981

Do me a favor listen to the words in this song....

and tell me what you think

Titanium David Guetta ft. Sia Lyrics - YouTube


----------



## GutPunch

Great song! Sounds like a place we need to get to. Strength I need to find. 

I get blue every other Fri. when i have to give the kiddos up. Especially hard this fri with everything that happened this last week.


----------



## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> Great song! Sounds like a place we need to get to. Strength I need to find.
> 
> I get blue every other Fri. when i have to give the kiddos up. Especially hard this fri with everything that happened this last week.


You will find the strength you are looking for as soon as you let go... You know what you have to do....I sent you a pm


----------



## NoWhere

GutPunch said:


> Bahaaa That was sarcasm. No I don't have one up. I'm not ready. Thinking about it though.


Don't feel bad. i went to put one up and looked around and ended up just comparing every women I saw to my ex wife and none of them looked as attractive to me. Even though there were a few very attractive women. Just made me miss her more. Plus once I had a few people interested the thought of actually going through with a date with someone else scared me. I guess I'm not ready.

I don't think anyone out there could love my ugly mug like she did.


----------



## lee101981

NoWhere said:


> Don't feel bad. i went to put one up and looked around and ended up just comparing every women I saw to my ex wife and none of them looked as attractive to me. Even though there were a few very attractive women. Just made me miss her more. Plus once I had a few people interested the thought of actually going through with a date with someone else scared me. I guess I'm not ready.
> 
> I don't think anyone out there could love my ugly mug like she did.


You will never know if you don't try!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

NoWhere said:


> I don't think anyone out there could love my ugly mug like she did.


Not true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NoWhere

lee101981 said:


> You will never know if you don't try!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I did try and just ended up measuring everyone interested up against my wife who I obviously still hold up on a pedestal. Made me take two steps back when I had been doing rather well lately. To someone else my ex probably looks like a nice looking girl, but to me she was beautiful and wonderful. I'm average at best.

Sorry about yet another thread hijack Gut. Forgive me?


----------



## GutPunch

Well...Nowhere you were able to get your wife. So you must have it in there somewhere.


----------



## GutPunch

OK people who been following me. Do I need to go back dark again and only answer texts about the kids and stop answering the phone. Remember, there is no POSOM in the picture. We are on good terms I would say but her mind is scrambled eggs. I need to make her miss me more. Need some advice TAM pros.


----------



## zillard

well... you told her no MC and D is moving forward, yeah?

So treat her like an ex. Or you're just gonna scramble her eggs further. And yours.


----------



## Chuck71

Dark, there was a posom in beginning, cut her off unless kids are topic. if she calls for anything else, 'i'm not comfortable discussing anything with you but the children.' When she squeals out, 'i'm sorry you feel that way.'


----------



## GutPunch

I am in a really bad place. Went out by myself last night. Drank way too much. Feeling really blue today. Why can I not let go? I still love my wife so much. I was doing so good until she pulled that escapade last week. 

I want to reach out to her so bad. I know that she needs me to be the strong one. I just am having a hard time being strong after betrayal. Damn, I hate feeling sorry for myself.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I am in a really bad place. Went out by myself last night. Drank way too much. Feeling really blue today. Why can I not let go? I still love my wife so much. I was doing so good until she pulled that escapade last week.
> 
> I want to reach out to her so bad. I know that she needs me to be the strong one. I just am having a hard time being strong after betrayal. Damn, I hate feeling sorry for myself.


Correction. YOU need you to be the strong one. 

So do your kids. 

She needs to sort out her own ****e. Cuz you can't do that for her.


----------



## Chuck71

She spun her web......everyone slips. Starting now.......be the way you were before the web. You were doing just fine, you can do it again.


----------



## 06Daddio08

GutPunch said:


> I am in a really bad place. Went out by myself last night. Drank way too much. Feeling really blue today. Why can I not let go? I still love my wife so much. I was doing so good until she pulled that escapade last week.
> 
> I want to reach out to her so bad. I know that she needs me to be the strong one. I just am having a hard time being strong after betrayal. Damn, I hate feeling sorry for myself.


Allow yourself to feel bad today.

It will happen.

Recognize it and accept it.

Tomorrow is a new day.

Hang in there.


----------



## old timer

GP - Currently separated myself. I went out last night by myself, but surrounded myself with friends and a bunch of attractive ladies. Had that "just right" amount to drink. Slept in today. I feel great. 

Don't deny yourself the pleasure of going out and having a few drinks - just try to be with friends if at all possible, and remember : "Everything in moderation".

Sorry you're feeling down. Hang in there, brother


----------



## lee101981

Had my blue day today
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

lee101981 said:


> Had my blue day today
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


((HUG))
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

GP- please get out and treat yourself good. You deserve happiness in your life. Try to go out and meet women and make new freinds. 

This will help build your self esteem and confidence and get you out of that dark place.

Like yoda said " you must face your fears" accept the pain and face it. Feel it.

You will get through it. It is something we all face, how we deal with it makes us who we are men or mice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lee101981

HiRoad said:


> GP- please get out and treat yourself good. You deserve happiness in your life. Try to go out and meet women and make new freinds.
> 
> This will help build your self esteem and confidence and get you out of that dark place.
> 
> Like yoda said " you must face your fears" accept the pain and face it. Feel it.
> 
> You will get through it. It is something we all face, how we deal with it makes us who we are men or mice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What if this girls does not want to be a mice or men
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

lee101981 said:


> What if this girls does not want to be a mice or men
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Point taken 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

HiRoad said:


> GP- please get out and treat yourself good. You deserve happiness in your life. Try to go out and meet women and make new freinds.
> 
> This will help build your self esteem and confidence and get you out of that dark place.
> 
> Like yoda said " you must face your fears" accept the pain and face it. Feel it.
> 
> You will get through it. It is something we all face, how we deal with it makes us who we are men or mice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just hate that I am in limbo. Sometimes I wish my wife would just run off with some posom at least that has some finality to it. I look at her and see she is in pain from all this. I know she still loves me. She is working on getting better with IC and NA meetings. I am torn.


----------



## lee101981

You are allowing yourself to stay in limbo. You do have the power to move forward. You can make a decision!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I just hate that I am in limbo. Sometimes I wish my wife would just run off with some posom at least that has some finality to it. I look at her and see she is in pain from all this. I know she still loves me. She is working on getting better with IC and NA meetings. I am torn.


IC and NA do not work overnight. And they do not work in the long run unless the participant is truly committed to healing and growth. 

Question is: Are you willing to stay in limbo for as long as it takes, knowing that it may never happen?

You are still looking for finality through her. 

I really do get it. I fall into the same trap. Mine is now in IC too and I also know that she cares and has feelings for me. But the fact is she's a mess. I can't trust her. When angry or feeling hurt she does not treat me with respect. She has closed herself off from her daughter... even though I do see awesome moments of her breaking through that. 

But we have to ask: Is that enough for me?

My answer is no.


----------



## GutPunch

I do not know what I willing to do Z. I know I need to toughen up and at least start the divorce process. She needs to feel consequences for the pain she has caused the children and I.

I am also afraid of losing the kids if I take her back. It is rare for us men to get custody. I guess after everything that has happened, I still haven't seen her fight to keep her family intact. Without that, I have got to move forward. 

We can always remarry with a prenuptial agreement stating she cannot take the kids from me.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I know I need to toughen up and at least start the divorce process. She needs to feel consequences for the pain she has caused the children and I.


If you start D process do it for you and the kids, not to punish her. Same result but different focus. 



GutPunch said:


> I am also afraid of losing the kids if I take her back. It is rare for us men to get custody.


There you go. D is important to protect them from a negative probability. 



GutPunch said:


> I guess after everything that has happened, I still haven't seen her fight to keep her family intact. Without that, I have got to move forward.


Yes. *Without that*, taking her back would not be moving forward.



GutPunch said:


> We can always remarry


Acknowledge the possibility... ok. Hold out hope for that and moving on will be very difficult.

I did the same thing for a bit. Even voiced it to her before she moved out. But the more I think about that possibility, the worse I feel.

Of course getting back together is possible. But so is space travel. I'm not going to be doing that anytime soon and must be realistic about it.


----------



## Chuck71

Until she makes connection with child............you should be no concern. D means nothing, just keeps lawyers in business. You can still date after D if you want. D is for you and to protect D.......in some ways, you're in a better position if you D. Just my take.


----------



## GutPunch

Meet with my lawyer today at 2:00. She is going to ask me what I want to do. I guess I can't tell her it's complicated.


----------



## Chuck71

You're filing.......nothing changes between you and her............secure your stance with child and custody. This is for her.........and you but her first. This step lets W know.........yeah I'm not pi55ing in a dry creekbead anymore.


----------



## GutPunch

Well I met with the lawyer yesterday and decided to still try and go the uncontested route. So I did not file and the lawyer said she would handle it. She definitely soothed my nerves like an IC.

Received a text from STBXW to call her after I put the kids to bed. I think about it and say ok since she has to pick the kids up from school on today. She asks me to bring D3 over to her in the morning and follow her to an auto garage too have her car worked on. I agree not any inconvenience and actually saves me time.

However I mention seeing the lawyer and talk to her about the D. She seems to deflect the subject and says we don't have to talk about that now. She then asks me again if it's what I want. I tell her it is and from then on she acts like she is in total agreement. 

Don't know what I was expecting but it still hurts. How does a woman go from crying and begging me back to ok with divorce a week later? :scratchhead:


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> How does a woman go from crying and begging me back to ok with divorce a week later? :scratchhead:


The same way you went from accepting date night to seeing a lawyer. Ambivalence. Nothing about this is easy for either of you. But you've got to do right by yourself and your kids. Her situation and happiness are her responsibility.


----------



## familyfirst09

Why did you say it was what you wanted when she asked?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

"Don't know what I was expecting but it still hurts. How does a woman go from crying and begging me back to ok with divorce a week later? "

Why do you even question yourself about her actions???

Your wife became addicted to prescription drugs. She is an addict. She had an EA with OM.

She is messed up. Period.

You do what you need to do to heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Why did you say it was what you wanted when she asked?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Because she is not fighting to save her family FF. She is 100% at fault for the affair and drug addiction. Of course I tell her I want a divorce, Plan B is not in the cards for me. 

She wants to work on "herself" while still being married to me while I struggle daily with my business and our two small kids.

She needs to work on herself. She needs to get well but keeping me on a string is not healthy for me or the kids. 

If she doesn't want me to divorce her then she better at least let me know it. That is a small price to pay for what she has done.


----------



## familyfirst09

I agree and from what I have read, you are doing the right thing for you and your kids. 
But from a womans point a view, a woman who has screwed up herself, maybe she wants you to fight for her, to fight for the woman that you love. My H never fought for me, sometimes women need their knight in shining armour to rescue them. I know, very silly, and I'm not trying to change your mind or anything, but usually, IMO, when women ask questions like that, they want you to fight for them. She sounds like a very sad and confused woman. You stay strong for your kids. She already regrets what she has lost.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

My convictions say you do not fight for a woman who betrays you. What does fight for mean anyway (essentially beg and plead) my way back into her life. Is that fighting for someone? If you are saying she wants me to reachout, I bet she does. I think she needs me to be a strong man based on principle. 

I cannot let my heart or emotions make my decisions any more. All that does is get me hurt.


----------



## zillard

familyfirst09 said:


> maybe she wants you to fight for her, to fight for the woman that you love. ...sometimes women need their knight in shining armour to rescue them.


If this is what a damsel wants then she shouldn't reach into the knight's armor and shove a dagger into his side. 

The knight can't ride until he pulls it out himself. Because she isn't going to do it. She's too busy feeling guilty and running away in shame. She knows where the castle is.


----------



## familyfirst09

Yes, I meant reach out. I know you can't beg and plead to get someone back or make them see the error of their ways. and it sounds like you've done an excellent job. And you make a great point zillard. I guess I'm just a softy, romantic at heart, which is why my H tromps all over me. There is a saying I heard "you let people treat you the way they want to treat you". So if we don't let them, then they won't. Sounds pretty simple eh?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

You're the second person I have heard that from. Is there a training manual??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

Start by saying no and being consistent. 

I previously had trouble getting D6 to say please when she asked for things. I wasn't as consistent as I should have been and her mother rarely ever said it to either of us. 

Now that it's just D6 and me most of the time I just started saying no to everything unless she said please, and was consistent with my pleases. It only took a few days and now she's saying it regularly and actually holding me to the same standard.


----------



## familyfirst09

Thanks. These are good lessons to learn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

UpnOver said:


> No one can ever be rescued.
> 
> No one should ever NEED someone to be a certain way to remain 'healthy'.
> 
> You cannot fix someone.
> 
> They have to fix themselves.
> 
> * She's got work to do in this department *
> 
> 
> You can help someone, but you cannot fix them.
> 
> *Helped her take her car to the mechanic today and helped her pick it up.*
> 
> There is nothing wrong with being a supporting spouse through hard times.
> 
> To give advice.
> 
> Guidance.
> 
> Opinions.
> 
> But ultimately it's not up to you and if you are not in a good place to deal with such things then all it will do is further harm yourself.
> 
> 
> They are the ones who have to say so though.
> 
> Not you.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-I'll still post on others, just not mine. As for her wanting you to reach out and fight for her........complete BS. This is not high school and 'chase me'. She screwed everything up and she should be the one to fix it. Most people who are at the courthouse hearing it being final, still have love for each other but egos get in the way. Well that is an issue each must address on their own.

When she was agreeable about the D, from what you've told me about her, trust me she was putting up a front. Observe her over the next week, you'll see the truth. If she wants to talk or anything, neutralize the dates and her web can't be spun. Remember what we spoke about that day.......it still holds true. 

She needs to address her own limitations before she could even mount a solid case for not D. Right now she knows if things caved on her, you would step in to help. Now that a D is in progress she is not sure anymore. This is what she needs to face. The possibility of Mr. GP not being there to pick up the pieces. She is having a crash course in accountability. Sounds like it was long overdue.

If she moves mountains to wish a R and save the family....everything will be on her and her alone. She does not want to take responsibility and that should tell you already how the R will turn out. She wishes to rugsweep in a major way. Hide the broom.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> GP-I'll still post on others, just not mine. As for her wanting you to reach out and fight for her........complete BS. This is not high school and 'chase me'. She screwed everything up and she should be the one to fix it. Most people who are at the courthouse hearing it being final, still have love for each other but egos get in the way. Well that is an issue each must address on their own.
> 
> When she was agreeable about the D, from what you've told me about her, trust me she was putting up a front. Observe her over the next week, you'll see the truth. If she wants to talk or anything, neutralize the dates and her web can't be spun. Remember what we spoke about that day.......it still holds true.
> 
> She needs to address her own limitations before she could even mount a solid case for not D. Right now she knows if things caved on her, you would step in to help. Now that a D is in progress she is not sure anymore. This is what she needs to face. The possibility of Mr. GP not being there to pick up the pieces. She is having a crash course in accountability. Sounds like it was long overdue.
> 
> If she moves mountains to wish a R and save the family....everything will be on her and her alone. She does not want to take responsibility and that should tell you already how the R will turn out. She wishes to rugsweep in a major way. Hide the broom.




I agree with your post 100% Chuck. Thank you for your posts as they help me keep focus. All the love that my children and I have for my wife cannnot fix this. Only she can take this bull by the horns.


----------



## NoWhere

UpnOver said:


> You train people how to treat you.


 Yep. I've started carrying around bags of bacon treats and when someone does something good I give them a piece. Working pretty well so far. Now if I can just get my boss to roll over and fetch :smthumbup:


----------



## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> I just hate that I am in limbo. Sometimes I wish my wife would just run off with some posom at least that has some finality to it. I look at her and see she is in pain from all this. I know she still loves me. She is working on getting better with IC and NA meetings. I am torn.


I was in limbo for many months until stbxw confirmed that she was dating and with posOM.

YOU hold the key getting yourself out of state of limbo. 

You must move on, as hard as it is to let go, it is vital you do.Do 

Do not let her pain control what you do in your life. 

She cannot be in a M or relationship until she fixes herself. 

You are better than that!


----------



## GutPunch

No calls, texts, or emails since wed. It's music to my ears.


----------



## familyfirst09

Good on you GutPunch 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> No calls, texts, or emails since wed. It's music to my ears.


Keep up the great work
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## devastated3343

Gut, I check in on this journal from time to time and try to catch up on how you're doing, but I find it really hard to follow.  It's somewhat illuminating when I think back to how I felt at the beginning of my separation/divorce, and how painful and confusing it was.

I remember months of torturing myself asking 'why is it so easy to forget me and move on? What was that decade of my life worth? Doesn't she value any of the amazing times we had together? How can she have strong feelings for someone else when they didn't carry her through years of depression, hold her hand and look into her eyes when she had two beautiful babies, have her back when no one else did?'

I did all those things and they just don't matter???

I don't wrestle with it as much as I used to, and reading someone else's journey helps me understand what I felt then and what I'm feeling now.

All that said, I can't really tell what you're hoping to accomplish here. Sometimes it sounds like you're trying to use this threat of divorce as a catalyst for change, as in 'if you don't resolve to change in all the ways I think you should then we're getting divorced!' It sounds like you want her to realize her mistake and promise that it will all be better and she'll never let it happen again and she'll make it all better and please oh please let's just forget everything and go to bed and in the morning it will be magical again.

If that's how you feel you're entitled, but is it realistic?

It also sounds at times like you don't want to blame her for her decisions, just the drugs and depression. As though if you could separate them you would take her back and filter out the parts you don't want. Is that realistic? 

There are some simple, powerful exercises you can do to get hold of your life and start doing the hard work to get better, get healthy.

You're as addicted to her as she ever was to drugs, and you're going through withdrawal. And every time you open the door to her you get another fix, and have to start all over again. 

You're going to go through shattering, withdrawal, internalizing, rage and finally acceptance. Usually in that order, and often you'll just back and forth. 

Whatever happens, it's going to hurt for a long time, you'll probably never be completely over her, and when you start the next part of your life you'll be a very different person.

I'm not judging you, before you can ever get better you have to decide what you ultimately want. What is the long term solution. Where are you a year, or 5 years from now, and start doing the work, every day, to get there. This day-to-day should I text her should I talk to her what do I tell the lawyer is bull****. It goes nowhere, because you can't decide where you want it to go.

What do YOU want?


----------



## familyfirst09

I think a lot of us are confused about ultimately what we want, I feel in the same position as GutPunch. Altho much stronger than me. 
You say "There are some simple, powerful exercises you can do to get hold of your life and start doing the hard work to get better, get healthy"
- what would these be?

At this point, I don't think what GutPunch wants matters, in a way, he wants his loving wife back, but just because he wants this doesn't mean he will get it. But if he decides that is truly what he wants, what can he do about it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

devastated3343 said:


> Gut, I check in on this journal from time to time and try to catch up on how you're doing, but I find it really hard to follow. It's somewhat illuminating when I think back to how I felt at the beginning of my separation/divorce, and how painful and confusing it was.
> 
> I remember months of torturing myself asking 'why is it so easy to forget me and move on? What was that decade of my life worth? Doesn't she value any of the amazing times we had together? How can she have strong feelings for someone else when they didn't carry her through years of depression, hold her hand and look into her eyes when she had two beautiful babies, have her back when no one else did?'
> 
> I did all those things and they just don't matter???
> 
> I don't wrestle with it as much as I used to, and reading someone else's journey helps me understand what I felt then and what I'm feeling now.
> 
> All that said, I can't really tell what you're hoping to accomplish here. Sometimes it sounds like you're trying to use this threat of divorce as a catalyst for change, as in 'if you don't resolve to change in all the ways I think you should then we're getting divorced!' It sounds like you want her to realize her mistake and promise that it will all be better and she'll never let it happen again and she'll make it all better and please oh please let's just forget everything and go to bed and in the morning it will be magical again.
> 
> If that's how you feel you're entitled, but is it realistic?
> 
> It also sounds at times like you don't want to blame her for her decisions, just the drugs and depression. As though if you could separate them you would take her back and filter out the parts you don't want. Is that realistic?
> 
> There are some simple, powerful exercises you can do to get hold of your life and start doing the hard work to get better, get healthy.
> 
> You're as addicted to her as she ever was to drugs, and you're going through withdrawal. And every time you open the door to her you get another fix, and have to start all over again.
> 
> You're going to go through shattering, withdrawal, internalizing, rage and finally acceptance. Usually in that order, and often you'll just back and forth.
> 
> Whatever happens, it's going to hurt for a long time, you'll probably never be completely over her, and when you start the next part of your life you'll be a very different person.
> 
> I'm not judging you, before you can ever get better you have to decide what you ultimately want. What is the long term solution. Where are you a year, or 5 years from now, and start doing the work, every day, to get there. This day-to-day should I text her should I talk to her what do I tell the lawyer is bull****. It goes nowhere, because you can't decide where you want it to go.
> 
> What do YOU want?




What I want has been taken from me. I have to develop a new story. You are correct in that my mind and heart are in a constant tug of war. I have ultimately decided to divorce my wife as painful as this is to me and my kids. You are correct that I do hope it is a catalyst for change. However, rationally I have to protect myself and the kids. I do not believe I have the personality for reconciliation. 

When she made the attempt at R, I did not like how it made me feel. Paranoid, hyper-vigilant, needy, and intense anxiety. I will divorce this woman unless she is ready to move mountains to get her family back. Even then I would not let her back in my home for fear of the kids getting hurt. It just seems all roads lead to divorce 

I do tend to blame the drugs maybe more than I should. We had such a happy marriage for ten years. Drugs destroyed it and her. I know that it was her choice to self medicate and she must live with the consequences. 

Ultimately, I must break free of this woman. Let go of the pain and get divorced. Thank you so much for your input as that is why I come here.


----------



## zillard

familyfirst09 said:


> At this point, I don't think what GutPunch wants matters, in a way, he wants his loving wife back, but just because he wants this doesn't mean he will get it. But if he decides that is truly what he wants, what can he do about it?


This ultimately depends on what we want most.

Do we want our spouses back?
Do we want to be in healthy marriage?
Do we want to be treated a certain way?
Do we want to be happy?

In many of our situations we need to realize that the combination of all 4 of those may not be possible. 

So we have to prioritize.


----------



## familyfirst09

1. Being happy
2. Being treated a certain way
3. Being in a healthy marriage
4. Get our spouses back. 

Maybe 3 and 4 could be reversed....

It really is an addiction...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lee101981

Trust me when I say that this is not an easy thing to do. We have both been with our spouses along time. This is not going to be and easy thing to do, but it is something that we must do for your children. We have to be stong and set and emample. Letting go of the pain is going to be one of the hardest things we will ever have to do... it will be a tough road but please rememer that you are not alone.


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> 1. Being happy
> 2. Being treated a certain way
> 3. Being in a healthy marriage
> 4. Get our spouses back.
> 
> Maybe 3 and 4 could be reversed....
> 
> It really is an addiction...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I think you got the order right. I just confuse #1 and #4.


----------



## familyfirst09

Yeah me too...it feels like it goes hand and hand....and in my case I don't remember being truly happy before my H was in my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

GP-I'm just a state away.....want me to show you where the lake is? In many ways the lake has always been my IC, I just wasn't aware. A D is not a death blow. It can be stopped as you enter the courtroom for it to be finalized. You can re-marry a year later if you choose. Done more often than most realize. 

A D will protect the kids. Less stress and anxiety for GP. Once GP sees the clouds and fog fade away, clear eyes can see if exW is truly making progress. Harder for her to cast webs. D can be a wake-up call for some who think you are just using the threat of D to see results


----------



## familyfirst09

How does a D protect kids??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> How does a D protect kids??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because it is rare for a father to get primary custody. A reconciliation with my wife could jeapordize that. I am way more attentive to my children's needs than my wife ever was. 

I do not want to be the one alone in an apartment not kissing them goodnight everynight. The weekends I don't have them are bad enough.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> GP-I'm just a state away.....want me to show you where the lake is?



Really....N,S,E or W


----------



## familyfirst09

I have a guy friend who has primary custody of his kids, I think its very honorable and you should be very proud of yourself. Most men run away (no offense meant). 
How often does your STBXW have the kids?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> I have a guy friend who has primary custody of his kids, I think its very honorable and you should be very proud of yourself. Most men run away (no offense meant).
> How often does your STBXW have the kids?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Wednesdays 3-7 pm and every other weekend.
Proud...No I just love my kids. Normal I would say.


----------



## devastated3343

familyfirst09 said:


> You say "There are some simple, powerful exercises you can do to get hold of your life and start doing the hard work to get better, get healthy"
> - what would these be?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some of the exercises seem silly, because you're negotiating with your own subconscious. But I've heard and, in some limited ways, experienced some of the changes in thinking that can result.

But, again, before Gut can decide what he wants to do to heal he has to decide if he's going to live his life trying to 'fix' his STBXW and hope for a reconciliation or if he's going to cut bait and move on. 

Some exercises:
Mindfulness - it's like a simple meditation, and it's meant to strip away stress and stop you from thinking over and over about your situation or your ex. You sit still, in a comfortable place and just listen and be aware. Be aware of all the sounds, all the feelings, the temperature, the air, the noise from the fridge, the noise from the traffic, and as you relax you'll hear more noises, quieter noises that you couldn't hear before, your mind will start to separate the layers. As you do you'll be more relaxed and you'll push out the internal converstations you have with yourself and you can bleed off some stress.

You can find a list, or I can provide one, of 'outer child' behaviours. Negative actions or thoughts that the selfish, petulant part of yourself engages in. The part of yourself that wants to fight back, hurt someone, sabotage someone, sabotage, neglect or hurt yourself. Read the list every day and catch yourself before you act out.

Keep a journal, like this one, of your feelings, but be sure to go back and read it and mark your progress. Your feelings will grow and change and the change is worth paying attention to.

Lastly, one of the most amazing exercises, and one that far too few people actually sit down and do. Write a letter to your spouse. The last letter, the final letter. Say everything you need to say. Call her every name. Accuse her of every short-coming, every way she was selfish and failed you, every way she took advantage of you. Hold nothing back. DON'T send the letter. Put it away, and then write another letter, from her, back to you. Have her apologize, express regret, and acknowledge the amazing person she betrayed and left behind. Have her tell you your great qualities and express her guilt and regret that she destroyed what should have been great. 

Then, and this is the most important, read that apology letter to yourself every night(or day, but usually before bed for best effect) for about a week or maybe two. Amazingly, staggeringly, your mind will begin to react as if that conversation actually happened, and will start to respond in kind. The key here is that when you remember something, you're not remembering the event you're remembering the last time you remembered it. It's a powerful tool and can help you get closure on stressful relationships. 

It's not really a tool for reconciling with a partner, more about letting one go and not carrying the depression and fear along with it.



familyfirst09 said:


> At this point, I don't think what GutPunch wants matters, in a way, he wants his loving wife back, but just because he wants this doesn't mean he will get it. But if he decides that is truly what he wants, what can he do about it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know, honestly. It's almost a year for me and I'm still broken. I miss my wife, my best friend, and the knowledge that she's with someone else kills me. My kids tell me this new guy, who is an old friend of ours, hangs around the house and sometimes sleeps over eats at me.

And for all that if she came crawling back I'd be really torn. I hate her for everything she's done this past year but I can so easily remember looking at her face and being totally in love. It's painful to talk about, and I hope that soon I can start over in a new relationship and start feeling good. But I had to decide if what I wanted was to wait and hope she'd find her way back, or start acting like our marriage was over and her life simply doesn't have anything to do with mine. I see her almost every day when we exchange the kids, I'm still attracted to her, still miss her. And I remind myself we're not together, we're not buddies, we're not here to trade jokes or talk about movies or share stories. She's got her own life, she doesn't miss me, she doesn't need me, I have to move on - alone, uncertain, self-conscious, wondering if I'll ever fall in love again, and will someone ever love me back.

So I relate to everyone on this board, and react with compassion for their struggle. The exercises help, time helps, the rest is just getting by. But Gut needs to decide if he's trying to fix something that might never be fixed - and examine why he wants to do that - or if he's ready to start the next part of his life. I hate my situation, I'm sure a lot of us do, I hope one day to look back and be amazed that it was ever this dark.


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## Chuck71

GP-Run 59 N to 24 N to 75 N, exit 20E, take 64E exit..........you're there!!


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## GutPunch

I got the state narrowed down.


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## DavidWYoung

Gut, I do know what you are going thru......BUT.......
Your old wife is dead. 
Your old marriage is very dead.
This new person that looks like your wife, everytime she opens her mouth, she is lying to you and your children.
DIVORCE this new person and try to get the children.
The pain that you are setting yourself up for is worse than death, you will not be able to look at yourself if you keep up the course you are on. I know, I did it. Don't make my mistake. Please.


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## familyfirst09

I wouldn't mind seeing this list of outer child behaviours. These exercises seem really great, I'm going to print them off. I don't want to hijack Gut's thread so if Gut doesn't mind you posting list, that would be great. Or if you could PM it to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

Post away. I value everyone's input on here.


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## Chuck71

GP-David is right......guard yourself....reason I say a D is not "forever" but it gives you stronger footing. Any D is hard on the children but how would it be if their parents kept riding the 'crazy train' and constantly having power struggles or years? And GP if you think your nerves are bad now, imagine after eight years of the roller coaster?


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## GutPunch

Radio silence has broken. Just got a text can I come over tonight? I miss
the kids. WTF. Ignore or text back we aren't home and won't
Be back til later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

See this is the kind of stuff that gets me...if you say no are you impeding on her parental rights? Are you home? Are you busy? Would it interrupt yours and yours kids schedule for her to come over?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

I miss not being on anxiety medication. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lee101981

Why not go back to the doc?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

*TEXT BATTLE - VENT POST*

STBXW - Hey. Can I come over tonight? I miss the kids.

GP - I'm sorry we aren't home.

STBXW - Oh. OK. Are you not coming home?

GP - Later tonight.

STBXW - I have to work next weekend. Can we work something out?

GP - Did you work this weekend? 

STBXW - No

GP - Then this discussion is over. You didn't even come to his BBAll game on Sat. Your instant gratification is not my responsibility.

STBXW - You didn't come to his game the week before. It's not instant gratification. They are my children too. 

GP - Please stick to our mutually agreed upon schedule. If you need to swap weekends due to your work schedule, I will gladly oblige given adequate time to make arrangements.



This basically boils down to my wife not wanting to give her weekend up for the kids. I would gladly swap weekends with her but I'm not letting her mess these kids weekday schedules all up because of her selfishness. End of rant.


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## lee101981

Well played!!!!
Good job!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Very well done! Gotta be the full moon, my H just tried the same thing on me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## devastated3343

Whenever my STBXW and I get into a text battle it ends up escalating and gets really angry. I don't know how to handle it and it gets very stressful. We blew up at each other again today. I find it hard to relax afterward, and I really question whether I was right or if I'm being an a-hole. 

I feel for you gut, it feels like lose-lose. You stand your ground and it's a fight, if you give in you'll be letting her dictate your schedule at her whim.


----------



## familyfirst09

Is that you??? Handsome devil 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

That would be me and STBXW on our wedding day. I worked at a car wash in college so that explains my sweet tan. 

That photo makes me sad. 


I think I could employ the MAP all day long and not be that young again. So full of hopes and dreams. We achieved them
too. 

Time to stop looking at these.


----------



## familyfirst09

Yes stop looking at them. I got rid of all of H's pics in my house. I couldn't take staring at them every day. I don't know if he's ever noticed, if he did he hasn't said anything, but that's normal for him. Total "rug sweeper". 

What's MAP??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## devastated3343

I started writing them out, then found them on line. It's too long to write them all out, but I strongly encourage you to read them. In fact, print it out, put it up somewhere and read it often. Seeing these bahaviours will help you identify them, and with practice can help you reject these negative choices and make positive ones.

Here is a better copy of the list:

Outer Child Inventory - Susan Anderson


----------



## devastated3343

GutPunch said:


> That would be me and STBXW on our wedding day. I worked at a car wash in college so that explains my sweet tan.
> 
> That photo makes me sad.
> 
> 
> I think I could employ the MAP all day long and not be that young again. So full of hopes and dreams. We achieved them
> too.
> 
> Time to stop looking at these.


Wouldn't it be easier if they just got ugly and old the minute you split? Instead of having to see them and have that lingering attraction.


----------



## familyfirst09

Thanks D3343, I'm going to print the list tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> What's MAP??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Male Action Plan - Talked about in the Married Man Sex Life Primer 

Book recommended on here for us men to read. Supposed to make us more attractive to our spouses.


----------



## devastated3343

Another exercise you can do is called Big and Little. It sounds absurd, but it's part of the journaling exercise.

You imagine a 5 year old version of yourself. Actually imagine them. Picture them standing just out of arm's reach, on your left. This person's name is Little, and in Little you pour all of your anger, your insecurity, your venom, your scared, lonely, child. Little is scared, and angry, and blames you for the bad things that have happened.

On your other hand, you have Big. Big is the adult you, and the best part of yourself. The loving, caring, protecting, nurturing part of yourself. Big's job is to reassure and love Little, and make the pain go away. Just like you would a child.

So you start a dialogue. You don't have to write it down, you can sit quietly and let them talk it out. If you let the conversation just go where it wants you might be surprised what Little says, and how you comfort them.

Little - You never loved her enough and that's why she left, you never tried hard enough. If you had she'd still be here. And now you're too old, too fat, too lazy to take care of me, and no one is ever going to love you. We're going to be alone forever.

Big - I know things are hard right now, but I promise I did my best, and sometimes relationships have to end. I know it's scary, but I promise we're going to be happy, and things are going to be ok. It's always hard to change, but I deserve to be happy, and every day is another chance to find happiness. I'll always love you and take care of you, you're very special to me, and we're going to be ok.

And so on and so forth. The conversation will kind of draw out some of the things you don't like about yourself or that you regret, and sometimes will really surprise you. And how you react will go a long way towards easing the pain and getting you moving towards a better life.

At least, that's what the books say. I did this exercise quite a bit. I found I felt better, and eventually I drifted away and got caught up in the fights.


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## Chuck71

GP-Job well done on the text! Your life is not to be put on hold for her. Awesome pic! I should post one of mine.....after all this is over I planned on posting a few from our glory days anyway. Pictures never bothered me until I went to the bottom. But they are what pulled me out of the hole. I took the ones I wanted.....I will always remember who she was when I fell in love with her. Will she ever have a feeling as that again? No......will I? Probably not. But......life goes on.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> A Long Time Ago In A Galaxy Far Far Away


Dude - 
why do you torture yourself by looking at these pics? 

The beautiful, loving lady pictured is not the woman you know now. 

Sorry, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

devastated3343 said:


> I feel for you gut, it feels like lose-lose. You stand your ground and it's a fight, if you give in you'll be letting her dictate your schedule at her whim.


I have to establish some boundaries with her. She knows that I will watch the kids if she has to work. Uses that fact against me. Come over to my house Sunday night, really? She has already lured me into her spider web once this month.


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## familyfirst09

I need boundaries too...but what are they??
Where do you live GP? Family home?
Do you have a lawyer? I lawyered up today. H doesn't know but its time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> I need boundaries too...but what are they??
> Where do you live GP? Family home?
> Do you have a lawyer? I lawyered up today. H doesn't know but its time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I live in the family home. My wife does not have a key. I have a lawyer. My wife has a lawyer. But here I am still married.

Boundaries are what is acceptable behavior too you. They have nothing to do with him. 

Would you accept this behavior from a stranger? Then do not accept it from an ex. We are not here to make sure their needs are met anymore.


----------



## familyfirst09

So when it comes to your home, what boundaries do you set? I worry about the legal implications about forbidding access to the home. I don't want him in my home while I'm not home (he's got a key still, he gave me his back I thought we were good, but he's got a front door key now, the neighbor gave it to him). I've asked him for it and he won't give it to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Nothing you can do. My wife surrendered hers voluntarily. If she resisted, I was gonna ask for a key to her apartment since we are still legally married. Never came to that. 

Laws differ from place to place. Tell the attorney your scheduling difficulties and boundary issues. They will know what to do.


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## familyfirst09

Yeah that's what my lawyer already told me. If he won't give it to me I can't force him and I can't change the locks. Probably why he gave up the first key so easily, I didn't know he had another one. 

Hehe, wouldn't that be a hoot to ask him for a key to "his" place!!! (He lives with POSOW and its her home. He doesn't even pay rent there).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

GP-Glad to see you are watching the nature around you.


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## GutPunch

Over my head Chuck


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## Chuck71

Spider webs lol


----------



## GutPunch

Found out today that the wife lied to me about hiring a lawyer. She only had a free consult.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Found out today that the wife lied to me about hiring a lawyer. She only had a free consult.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does that even surprise you?

Do you really think she wants a divorce?


----------



## Chuck71

Agree..........that is no real shock. Now she wants to guilt you into doing all the leg work. Yes it would be so easy not to follow through with things but.....you need to...for the kids and you. Stick to your guns.


----------



## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> Found out today that the wife lied to me about hiring a lawyer. She only had a free consult.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How did you find that out?


----------



## GutPunch

My lawyer told me. I am not surprised in the least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

How did your lawyer know?
And my H did the same thing, told me he talked to a lawyer but then slipped up and told me it was a counsellor through his work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

My lawyer was trying to get things done through him but he would never respond. Finally she picked up the phone and called him. He said that she never came back.


----------



## GutPunch

Since I still have an outside shot at an uncontested divorce, I sent a text this morning saying that I dropped all spousal support from the settlement. Please contact my Lawyers office to sign the agreement and finalize the divorce. 

It 's really gutwrenching to send that to someone I used to would die for. However, I got custody of two beautiful kids, an awesome house on 5 acres, and a very substantial child support payment to help me maintain the kids where they are at. 

I can hold my head up high and keep moving forward.


----------



## lee101981

Great job!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Anyone taking bets?

Even Money - She hires her Lawyer and puts the brakes on everything. Stalls the divorce another 6 months.

100 - 1 She signs the papers

5 - 1 She just ignores the text and does nothing

50 - 1 She tries to spider web once again


----------



## lee101981

At least you have an idea what is to come. Don't let her mess with your head
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

But does your wife really want a divorce?


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> But does your wife really want a divorce?


I don't think my wife knows what she wants Happy. 

I want somebody who knows they want to be with me!


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I don't think my wife knows what she wants Happy.
> 
> I want somebody who knows they want to be with me!


Right!

If you don't know what you want, how can you ever expect to get it?


----------



## familyfirst09

How did you end up with full custody anyway?
And what is "she tries to spider web again"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> How did you end up with full custody anyway?
> And what is "she tries to spider web again"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



DDay my wife got tossed out. She never took the kids. My wife had a painkiller addiction and knows I would fight her to the ends of the earth for custody. She knows she can't handle the responsibility either.


I purchased some spider repellant. LOL Hopefully, I learned my 
lesson the last time.


----------



## GutPunch

WOW! No answer to my text. She always responds instantly to my texts. Those of you who picked she would just ignore it are looking pretty good.


----------



## Chuck71

I will take spider webs and $500 Alex! She can't communicate so what is her next alternative? Nice seeing things without the clouds isn't it! 5 acres! how cool. i have 2 and even though i have a riding mower, i still push mow every inch. to me that is my therapy. even when things were great with us....it was my 'get in touch with your soul' time. With my books, it was the best time, hands down, to capture yourself in the characters. BTW-you have fish in the pond? I'll bring fishin poles n ribs for the grill LOL


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> I don't think my wife knows what she wants Happy.
> 
> I want somebody who knows they want to be with me!


So are you willing to give her that time or has your BS meter reached the red mark?


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> So are you willing to give her that time or has your BS meter reached the red mark?



My BS meter is redlining. After she screwed the kids for a third time on visitation, and then tells me she didn't know swapping weekends was an option for the third time. Same excuse same answer three straight times. 

I have too much to lose to trust this woman. I am not seeing the remorse. I see guilt but not remorse.


----------



## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> My BS meter is redlining. After she screwed the kids for a third time on visitation, and then tells me she didn't know swapping weekends was an option for the third time. Same excuse same answer three straight times.
> 
> I have too much to lose to trust this woman. I am not seeing the remorse. I see guilt but not remorse.




I am glad that you see what you have to lose. You need to stay focused on the kids and yourself. You can do this...


----------



## familyfirst09

You'll know remorse when you see it and don't fall for her guilt trips. I've been living with those for 5 months now. Our kids are too important for all this crap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> I will take spider webs and $500 Alex! She can't communicate so what is her next alternative?


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> My BS meter is redlining. After she screwed the kids for a third time on visitation, and then tells me she didn't know swapping weekends was an option for the third time. Same excuse same answer three straight times.
> 
> I have too much to lose to trust this woman. I am not seeing the remorse. I see guilt but not remorse.


Gotcha. Then you know what you have to do.

It is a shame when a spouse screws over not just you but her children.


----------



## familyfirst09

As a mom, I don't know how any mother can do that. And I'm sure you men feel the same way. And she may have screwed your kids over but it sounds like they got the better part of the deal. Sad to say, but true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

No the kids are getting screwed too. No way I can be a mother and father. All I can do is my best and that's what I'm gonna do.


----------



## K.C.

Screwed in that they won't have 2 good full time parents I guess. They are better off with a fab full time loving Dad than if they ended up with her just because she has a mum label though.


----------



## familyfirst09

Agreed KC, that's what I meant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Todays boring update. Took STBXW to the mechanic to get her car out of the shop. Today is her day with kiddos. She never mentions the sign the papers text I sent her yesterday. 

She does ask me if I have been out with the girl from Birmingham again? 

WTF do you care?
I say no, she is not my type, I am not dating until the papers are signed. 

I felt pretty disconnected from her. The children make the 180 so damn hard.

IC explored my childhood today. I felt like I flushed my money there today. 

She said according to my profile that I need a woman who is very loving caring and affectionate because my parents were not. Well no shi*! Who doesn't want that.


----------



## K.C.

Loving and affectionate? Wow that's deep man. Presumably there are people who don't need that then??


----------



## zillard

Maybe if she ignores it, it will go away.

Or better yet you can file default and get whatever you want.


----------



## GutPunch

K.C. said:


> Loving and affectionate? Wow that's deep man. Presumably there are people who don't need that then??


I know really. I just gave her $80 to tell me basically I need to find a girl that loves me.


----------



## zillard

There are different types of lovers and different ways of showing affection. Adaptive relationships due to childhood experiences are very real. Exploring this may not be a waste of time. 

See Rebuilding, 5 Love Languages, etc.


----------



## familyfirst09

I'm starting to feel the same way about my therapist, I need action!!
Why did you take her to pick up her car?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Why did you take her to pick up her car?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Her day with the kids. She lives less than a mile from my work and the auto shop and it's pouring down rain. I just try to be pleasant yet aloof at the same time.


----------



## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> I know really. I just gave her $80 to tell me basically I need to find a girl that loves me.


I could of told you that for free...


----------



## familyfirst09

Did she ask or did you offer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Did she ask or did you offer?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She asked last week. I said no problem. Believe me I am not gonna go very far out of my way for her anymore.


----------



## Chuck71

GP We could have told you that for a grilled cheese, bag of chips and a six pack LOL

Just my thoughts since I study in that field..........

But all being serious........the more you are clear headed with conviction......the more erratic she is. KEEP IT THAT WAY

You are seeing time with no first or second hand. Instead of reading your own ending you are now writing it yourself. Job well done!


----------



## GutPunch

GutPunch said:


> Anyone taking bets?
> 
> Even Money - She hires her Lawyer and puts the brakes on everything. Stalls the divorce another 6 months.
> 
> 100 - 1 She signs the papers
> 
> 5 - 1 She just ignores the text and does nothing
> 
> 50 - 1 She tries to spider web once again



Looks like she is taking the ignore it route. I have seen her several times with kid exchanges and nothing. How do I nudge her to sign the papers. 

I am afraid of filing just yet as having her served may scare her into hiring the Lawyer she spoke too. 

I guess I'll wait to see what my Lawyer says.


----------



## lee101981

Why are you scared if she hires a lawyer?
You could just simply ask her about the papers?


----------



## Chuck71

Don't hesitate........gives time for opponent to regroup. She's not the type to ignore for long......she likes the drama. I still want spider webs for $1600 Alex.


----------



## familyfirst09

Its the fear of the unknown....not knowing what she is thinking or doing or planning that is scary...it is for me anyway. I'm filing tomorrow, never been so scared.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

lee101981 said:


> Why are you scared if she hires a lawyer?
> You could just simply ask her about the papers?


Nothing good could happen if she hires a lawyer. That means it's a fight and it's gonna cost money. I know I would win that fight but at what cost. I don't want this to drag out either.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Nothing good could happen if she hires a lawyer. That means it's a fight and it's gonna cost money. I know I would win that fight but at what cost. I don't want this to drag out either.


Once it was clear mine was done, wanted out, and not willing to meet my requirements for R I did the paperwork. But I knew that if I had her served without going over custody she'd see it as an attack and retaliate. It's just who she is and that part of her hasn't changed. 

So I told her what I was going to put in the paperwork. Then I put it in the paperwork. She agreed. When complete I gave her the opportunity to sit down and go over it WITH me before I filed. 

This kept the situation from exploding, plus I got a signed custody agreement in my hands before I even filed. 

You need to move strategically based on what you do know about your stbxw and how she responds to certain situations. 

BUT, if she is uncooperative and won't go over it, what choice do you have but to just get it done.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> Once it was clear mine was done, wanted out, and not willing to meet my requirements for R I did the paperwork. But I knew that if I had her served without going over custody she'd see it as an attack and retaliate. It's just who she is and that part of her hasn't changed.
> 
> So I told her what I was going to put in the paperwork. Then I put it in the paperwork. She agreed. When complete I gave her the opportunity to sit down and go over it WITH me before I filed.
> 
> This kept the situation from exploding, plus I got a signed custody agreement in my hands before I even filed.
> 
> You need to move strategically based on what you do know about your stbxw and how she responds to certain situations.
> 
> BUT, if she is uncooperative and won't go over it, what choice do you have but to just get it done.



You are spot on Z. I know my wife and I need to approach like you did. If she feels threatened, she will get emotional and make rash decisions. She is cooperative but I feel that she is emotionally unstable. If she hires a Lawyer, she has deep pockets and we have lots of assets. Lawyers licking their chops.

When we worked out our custody arrangement, I would try to explain things to her and she was incapable of understanding. Too emotional. I have to be delicate but firm. 

I am not sure she knows what she wants and I am delicately trying to show her it's not up to her.


I also think I may be trying to be too friendly with her. In my mind, I am trying to project I am happy without her. I probably need to stop the chit chat and be a little more darker?


----------



## lee101981

I believe that I am lucky not having to deal with this.


----------



## zillard

lee101981 said:


> I believe that I am lucky not having to deal with this.


I believe that I am lucky to have been able to file uncontested and still get my daughter. 

Things would be so much worse otherwise.


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> You are spot on Z. I know my wife and I need to approach like you did. If she feels threatened, she will get emotional and make rash decisions. She is cooperative but I feel that she is emotionally unstable. If she hires a Lawyer, she has deep pockets and we have lots of assets. Lawyers licking their chops.
> 
> When we worked out our custody arrangement, I would try to explain things to her and she was incapable of understanding. Too emotional. I have to be delicate but firm.
> 
> I am not sure she knows what she wants and I am delicately trying to show her it's not up to her.
> 
> 
> I also think I may be trying to be too friendly with her. In my mind, I am trying to project I am happy without her. I probably need to stop the chit chat and be a little more darker?


I think it depends on how the chit chat is. Do you initiate? Can you or do you show "indifference" (I can't).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

familyfirst09 said:


> I think it depends on how the chit chat is. Do you initiate? Can you or do you show "indifference" (I can't).


No chit chat. But don't be a jerk, either. 

While reviewing our D papers mine pretty much sat in my lap. Throwing her leg over me on the couch. Kept going off on tangents - mindless chit chat, work gossip, even crying and self pity, etc. 

I let her sit close. I listened to her chit chat a bit and then softly diverted back to the topic at hand each time. When she cried I validated but turned it back as soon as possible. 

Once I got the signature I calmly got off the couch and went to bed. No goodnight, just "ok, I'm tired and going to bed". 

Show no anger, no frustration, don't be dismissive, just don't engage in it. Acknowledge what she says but don't keep the chatting going.


----------



## lee101981

zillard said:


> No chit chat. But don't be a jerk, either.
> 
> While reviewing our D papers mine pretty much sat in my lap. Throwing her leg over me on the couch. Kept going off on tangents - mindless chit chat, work gossip, even crying and self pity, etc.
> 
> I let her sit close. I listened to her chit chat a bit and then softly diverted back to the topic at hand each time. When she cried I validated but turned it back as soon as possible.
> 
> Once I got the signature I calmly got off the couch and went to bed. No goodnight, just "ok, I'm tired and going to bed".
> 
> Show no anger, no frustration, don't be dismissive, just don't engage in it. Acknowledge what she says but don't keep the chatting going.




You make it seem so effortless.....


----------



## zillard

lee101981 said:


> You make it seem so effortless.....


This was very difficult. But much easier when there is a clear goal in mind. Mine was *signature*. 

With no clear goal in mind, if she had came and sat in my lap like that... I would have started rubbing her leg and inching closer. 

Now when we meet there are no big goals. But I don't have to put up with the chit chat anymore. So I stop it with the "you fired me" line. No sense wading into deep waters if there aren't any fish left to catch.


----------



## familyfirst09

I seriously cannot WAIT to use the "you fired me" line!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

familyfirst09 said:


> I seriously cannot WAIT to use the "you fired me" line!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Me either!


----------



## BFGuru

Me either


----------



## GutPunch

STBXW just texted "Is your dad coming to Son's basketball game tomorrow?"

Too ashamed to show up are you. I don't blame you. He's going maybe I should tell her No and bring my video camera


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> STBXW just texted "Is your dad coming to Son's basketball game tomorrow?"
> 
> Too ashamed to show up are you. I don't blame you. He's going maybe I should tell her No and bring my video camera


don't respond and see what happens.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> don't respond and see what happens.


Really, It is about her son. I should just tell her yes we are both going.


----------



## HiRoad

GP stay dark, indiffernt and aloof.

Make her sit in the hot seat for a little bit.

Only speak to her in regards to the children and their well being.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Really, It is about her son. I should just tell her yes we are both going.


If it's about her son she will go regardless.


----------



## GutPunch

I promise she will not go if my Dad's there.


----------



## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> I promise she will not go if my Dad's there.


Who cares about what she does or does not do.

You do what makes you and your kids happy, she will accept or reject it, but it does not matter to you.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I promise she will not go if my Dad's there.


Her showing up is not your responsibility. That's mom's job. 

She is going to have to face uncomfortable situations sooner or later. 

It's no longer your job to worry about her level of comfort. That's what the text is about. Her comfort... not your son.


----------



## happyman64

What you should say is Yes a d it would mean a lot to me and our son if you sat with us...
She has to start wearing her big girl panties sooner or later.

Step up to the plate GP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

happyman64 said:


> She has to start wearing her big girl panties sooner or later.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yup...


----------



## familyfirst09

Hard one...but I don't think that email is about your son, if you say she won't go if your father is there, its about her. You can always respond and say "not sure yet".....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lee101981

I would not respond either if she wants to see y'all's son she will regardless of who is there
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

So tired of this sh**! She don't answer my sign the paper texts I dont answer the please don't make me uncomfortable texts.

Thanks guys. I see things a whole lot clearer when I read other people's threads.


----------



## happyman64

GP

I do not agree with you. Non communication tit for tat just makes matters worse.

Communicate. 

Be straight with her. Play no games.

Sometimes it is not about you or her. It is about your son. It is about your family.

Make it clear to her that is how you see it and do not allow her to make excuses.

That is where it starts.

When it comes to the divorce you can both ignore each other all you want.

Or you can be the adult, call her out on it in a mature fashion and engage her to tackle the issues in an adult matter.

Who knows? She might surprise you.....

HM64


----------



## familyfirst09

Its not about their son.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

If a woman can abandon her kid or kids guess what? It is about their son.

Because that is what her son will think no matter what anyone tells him.

She needs to grow up and act like a Mom. She cannot hide from the rest of the adults forever.

And GP needs to convey that message to her no matter how much he does not want to.


----------



## condave

zillard said:


> Her showing up is not your responsibility. That's mom's job.
> 
> She is going to have to face uncomfortable situations sooner or later.
> 
> It's no longer your job to worry about her level of comfort. That's what the text is about. Her comfort... not your son.


dude l think you are very intelligent, you see things that most people would not be able to see, good on you, was reading your thread too and i'm impressed, you seem to be on top of the situation, you seem to be turning your life around too and improving from childhood imprints

maybe this situation is actually a good thing that happened to your life whether you get R or not


----------



## zillard

condave said:


> dude l think you are very intelligent, you see things that most people would not be able to see, good on you, was reading your thread too and i'm impressed, you seem to be on top of the situation, you seem to be turning your life around too and improving from childhood imprints
> 
> maybe this situation is actually a good thing that happened to your life whether you get R or not


Thanks Condave. I do see this as a catalyst for change. Devastating, certainly but the greater the event the greater the opportunity for progress.


----------



## devastated3343

zillard said:


> No chit chat. But don't be a jerk, either.





zillard said:


> Show no anger, no frustration, don't be dismissive, just don't engage in it. Acknowledge what she says but don't keep the chatting going.


I still don't know how to do this. I've read the 180, and I remind myself all the time, but I can't find the balance between being aloof but hospitable or rude and dismissive. 

My situation is different from yours, my STBXW doesn't try to be close to me or win my affection or try to call back to better times. She doesn't think about me at all, and I think is glad I'm gone, which is really hurtful. I think I was a very nice person, who loved her completely and took care of her as well as I could. 

She doesn't want me, she just wants my help. So she's constantly asking for something, some favour, some way I can make things easier for her. So when she asks for help or when she breaks our agreement I try to set firm boundaries, but then we fight and I'm accused of being rude or condescending.

Sorry Gut, not trying to hijack your thread, just saying it can be hard to figure out the 180. It seems like the secret isn't to 'act happy' but to actually BE happy, and therefore unaffected by your former partner. Not sure how to do that.


----------



## zillard

devastated3343 said:


> I still don't know how to do this. I've read the 180, and I remind myself all the time, but I can't find the balance between being aloof but hospitable or rude and dismissive.
> 
> My situation is different from yours, my STBXW doesn't try to be close to me or win my affection or try to call back to better times. She doesn't think about me at all, and I think is glad I'm gone, which is really hurtful. I think I was a very nice person, who loved her completely and took care of her as well as I could.
> 
> She doesn't want me, she just wants my help. So she's constantly asking for something, some favour, some way I can make things easier for her. So when she asks for help or when she breaks our agreement I try to set firm boundaries, but then we fight and I'm accused of being rude or condescending.
> 
> Sorry Gut, not trying to hijack your thread, just saying it can be hard to figure out the 180. It seems like the secret isn't to 'act happy' but to actually BE happy, and therefore unaffected by your former partner. Not sure how to do that.


It takes time. I don't have it mastered yet. My X hasn't touched me in any way since we signed papers, nor me her. She has not asked to come back. She has apologized somewhat and said she cares about me still, but that's it. These mixed in with F you emails and such.

The thing you need to remember though, is when someone who had no healthy boundaries start defining, communicating and enforcing boundaries, 2 things happen. 

We feel like jerks.
Those who previously walked freely on us think we are jerks. 

But we are not. As long as we enforce our boundaries respectfully. 

Don't just walk away if someone is talking to you. That's rude. 

Don't ignore all emails/texts... unless you've clearly communicated a NC/LC boundary and they are violating it.

Don't be snippy. Don't use "You" statements (blame), use "I" statements.

I feel ____ when you do ____ because of _____. I would prefer if you did _____ when _____. What do you understand me to be saying? Will you please take my preference into consideration. 

If an argument happens. Don't just leave the room. 

I am going to step outside until THINGS calm down. 
Not
I am going outside until YOU calm down. 

Acknowledge their feelings. I'm sorry you feel that way. I understand that when I do ____ you probably feel ____. Is that correct? What I'm really trying to do is ____. Would you prefer I do ____ in a different way?

If you focus on these communication techniques, you will be calmer. And it will be noticed.


----------



## familyfirst09

I've been trying those but I just get hatrid spewed at me. I just keep saying "I understand that you feel that way". 
How do you know which emails to respond to and ones not to? And what if you don't agree with the way they want to do things?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

If they get nasty, remove yourself. "I will not accept that type of treatment. Please let me know when you want to discuss things." 

If you don't agree with a decision, you handle it like an adult. Be willing to compromise on preferences but never compromise your core values.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Basketball game and no Mommy. Not shocked there. Guess she couldn't take a chance on my Father being there. Such a shame.


----------



## lee101981

That's is sad!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Basketball game and no Mommy. Not shocked there. Guess she couldn't take a chance on my Father being there. Such a shame.


GP

For the unenlightened why is she afraid of your Dad?

HM


----------



## GutPunch

Plain and simple. She is ashamed of what she has done.


----------



## happyman64

But not too ashamed to do the right thing by showing you some respect the kid some attention.

I can see how she got addicted now.

Very sad GP.

Only she can fix things.......


----------



## GutPunch

Ugh. I keep wanting to contact my wife and tell her to sign the papers. I guess my best bet is to mention it casually at a kid swap rather than call or text her. 

Feeling blue today. Probably cause I have had to work 14 straight days. I think I am going to have a hard time meeting someone new. I am just too busy with my business and kids to put the time and effort to meet someone and then date. 

I really need some male friends here locally. I wish I never moved from my hometown.

This just plain sux.


----------



## lee101981

Don't contact her!
Just bring it up in a non threatening way!!!

Focus on you and the kids, the right person will walk into your life at the right time!!!!

Have a great day!!!
Take the kids to the park!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

I felt that way yesterday. I don't have a lot of girlfriends but I'm slowly making more. Have you heard of meetup.com? You should check it out. Its not a dating site. 

Why do you think you want to contact her? Is it just to reach out or for the papers?

When you're ready to date, that right person will accept your busy lifestyle. I'm in the same boat, I have my daughter all the time except saturday night every 2 weeks right now. It could change, I hope it doesn't but it could.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

GP-Things are unfolding in front of your eyes. Wiggle easy until your head is out of the lion's mouth. Be reactive, let her spin. She is hollow inside. No one can help her but her. Wish her success in recovery and.....exit stage left.


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> I felt that way yesterday. I don't have a lot of girlfriends but I'm slowly making more. Have you heard of meetup.com? You should check it out. Its not a dating site.
> 
> Why do you think you want to contact her? Is it just to reach out or for the papers?
> 
> When you're ready to date, that right person will accept your busy lifestyle. I'm in the same boat, I have my daughter all the time except saturday night every 2 weeks right now. It could change, I hope it doesn't but it could.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I looked at meetup. Nothing really perked my interest. Too small of a city I guess. Most of the stuff was for women only. No fair!
I am also time deficient. 


I hope it's only about the papers. However, my mind does play tricks on me at times. Think I'll just stay dark and slowly wratchet up the pressure.


----------



## happyman64

Of course it is not just about the papers.

I have a suggestion for you.

Call her.

You have nothing to lose.

And after you talk to her or see her ask yourself if it was worth it? Or do you feel any better?

You might be surprised by your answer.

But be cool and collected.no whining or begging.


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Of course it is not just about the papers.
> 
> I have a suggestion for you.
> 
> Call her.
> 
> You have nothing to lose.
> 
> And after you talk to her or see her ask yourself if it was worth it? Or do you feel any better?
> 
> You might be surprised by your answer.
> 
> But be cool and collected.no whining or begging.



I am just venting. The reasons for a wanting to contact
her is an issue I need to solve within myself.

She cheated plain and simple. She's not trying to move
any mountains to put her family back together. Any attempt
to contact her is weakness on my part. I need strength.

I know what I have to do. Worry about me and the kiddos.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

I've given in to that weakness a few times and it doesn't make you feel any stronger, just weaker.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## C-man

GutPunch said:


> I am just venting. The reasons for a wanting to contact
> her is an issue I need to solve within myself.
> 
> She cheated plain and simple. She's not trying to move
> any mountains to put her family back together. Any attempt
> to contact her is weakness on my part. I need strength.
> 
> I know what I have to do. Worry about me and the kiddos.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gutpunch - know what you're going through. Going through the exact thing right now. This has been the worst weekend for me since DD. 

Kids are with her. Stbxw is taking them to a "friend" for a Superbowl party. When I asked which "friend" my stbxw said I didn't know this "friend". She wants to bring them back later than usual. And she asks right after I asked about bringing them back later than usual next Sunday. It's killing me that she might be taking them to the POSOM2's place. And she's not stupid enough to introduce him as anything other than a "friend".

Kids didn't look happy when they came and picked up some clothes for "high tea" - yeah, my stbxw took them to high tea this afternoon (my sister already took them as a Christmas gift - so my stbxw is trying catch up and to make it look like she's a Supermom). Cramming all these activities into one weekend as if that makes up for all the previous neglect. 

The kids seemed sad and it breaks my heart.

I want to send her a letter to resolve some issues too - but just can't seem to get the energy to write it. She probably wouldn't read it anyway.


ETA: My stbxw has never watched a full football game in her entire life. Now she's going to a Superbowl party.


----------



## old timer

CM. 

Although you obviously wont like it, could be best for her to take the girls to Om's place. 

A. You can't stop her

B. the girls will see right through her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## C-man

old timer said:


> CM.
> 
> Although you obviously wont like it, could be best for her to take the girls to Om's place.
> 
> A. You can't stop her
> 
> B. the girls will see right through her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're right. And you're also right - there's nothing I can do about it. Keeping my fingers crossed about my girls. The danger is, POSOM2 is a former preacher - very smooth. 2nd or 3rd generation "minister". I guess he forgot the part about coveting thy neighbor's wife. (They met in August before we separated and when I thought we were in R). He's a natural born liar. Hope my girls are smarter than my stbxw....


----------



## GutPunch

Cedarman said:


> You're right. And you're also right - there's nothing I can do about it. Keeping my fingers crossed about my girls. The danger is, POSOM2 is a former preacher - very smooth. 2nd or 3rd generation "minister". I guess he forgot the part about coveting thy neighbor's wife. (They met in August before we separated and when I thought we were in R). He's a natural born liar. Hope my girls are smarter than my stbxw....


They are. Work on yourself. No letters.


----------



## familyfirst09

I've written letters in the past, even ones about D, finances, our marital home and assets and have never gotten a response. It just makes things worse. I had an uge tonight, like you all, so I posted it on TAM instead. It felt better getting the words out. 

I'm still dying to tell POSOW what a POS she is tho. I'll have my day eventually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rickster

Stay strong my man. We have a saying here in scotland. "It swings in roundabouts".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

And in the SE USA......it all comes out in the wash


----------



## GutPunch

Dropped my D off at STBXW's apartment. Gave her a nudge about signing the divorce papers. She told me that she has appointment with her Lawyer this Thursday morning to go over them. 

I was hoping she would just sign them. Now she has got a greedy Lawyer involved. I don't won't this to turn into financial armageddon. 

Definitely don't understand how you go from wanting to R a couple weeks ago to divorce attorney this week. I guess my overinflated ego keeps thinking she will break down and plead with me. I know that either way, Divorce is my only viable option to insure I keep my kids. I just have to keep telling myself this. She is not the same person I married. She is not the same person I married. She is not the same person I married.

I think I am more afraid of being alone than anything. That gives me hope. It's not her. I just don't want to be alone. I had a very lonely childhood with no brothers and sisters. Parents who were really uninterested in me. So I had to spend alot time in my imagination. 

Speaks to why I am so affectionate withi my two kids.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-In most cases, the spin cycle spouse does see the light. The key is not to wait around for it. The more you are away from the wreckage the better off you are. The farther she has to reach. The more times she must reassess 'is this worth it'. That takes away a fake R. You would not want that. 

As for the D and $ lawyers $....sit her down and be blunt. It will cost $$$....the kids will suffer...you and I will suffer. Sit down and tell me what you want.....I will tell you what I want. Let the lawyers suck off another couple. And reason to her "do it for the sake of the kids."


----------



## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> Dropped my D off at STBXW's apartment. Gave her a nudge about signing the divorce papers. She told me that she has appointment with her Lawyer this Thursday morning to go over them.
> 
> I was hoping she would just sign them. Now she has got a greedy Lawyer involved. I don't won't this to turn into financial armageddon.
> 
> Definitely don't understand how you go from wanting to R a couple weeks ago to divorce attorney this week. I guess my overinflated ego keeps thinking she will break down and plead with me. I know that either way, Divorce is my only viable option to insure I keep my kids. I just have to keep telling myself this. She is not the same person I married. She is not the same person I married. She is not the same person I married.
> 
> I think I am more afraid of being alone than anything. That gives me hope. It's not her. I just don't want to be alone. I had a very lonely childhood with no brothers and sisters. Parents who were really uninterested in me. So I had to spend alot time in my imagination.
> 
> Speaks to why I am so affectionate withi my two kids.




Maybe she is just blowing smoke to make you sweet!
Try not to let it get to you.


----------



## zillard

She could just be doing what I did. I hired a lawyer for document review only. No retainer, just an hourly fee to review the documents and make sure all is in order.


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## HiRoad

Yes tell her what you want.

Let her go through the process a little bit to see what it is really about.

Once my stbxw started to go through the process a little bit she quickly started to play nice.

Now she wants to agree to everything so that it is easy.


----------



## workingatit

> I think I am more afraid of being alone than anything. That gives me hope. It's not her. I just don't want to be alone. I had a very lonely childhood with no brothers and sisters. Parents who were really uninterested in me. So I had to spend alot time in my imagination.


OMG this is ME!!!!!!!!! It is part of what I am tryin got figure out myself...if I really want HIM back or just someone here because I do not want to be alone....starting to not be able to make the distinction right now. I have always been alone....and hated it...and now losing my daughter for half the week makes it all worse.....

I am so sorry for all the crap you have been going through...but this line just totally struck a chord with me....I sometimes think I am the only person in the world who kind of has "no one" so to speak.....


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## Chuck71

aka spin cycle.............ready for the dryer?


----------



## GutPunch

workingatit said:


> OMG this is ME!!!!!!!!! It is part of what I am tryin got figure out myself...if I really want HIM back or just someone here because I do not want to be alone....starting to not be able to make the distinction right now. I have always been alone....and hated it...and now losing my daughter for half the week makes it all worse.....
> 
> I am so sorry for all the crap you have been going through...but this line just totally struck a chord with me....I sometimes think I am the only person in the world who kind of has "no one" so to speak.....



You are not alone. Coincidentally, there is alot of us here on this website.


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## familyfirst09

workingatit said:


> OMG this is ME!!!!!!!!! It is part of what I am tryin got figure out myself...if I really want HIM back or just someone here because I do not want to be alone....starting to not be able to make the distinction right now. I have always been alone....and hated it...and now losing my daughter for half the week makes it all worse.....
> 
> I am so sorry for all the crap you have been going through...but this line just totally struck a chord with me....I sometimes think I am the only person in the world who kind of has "no one" so to speak.....


Welcome to our co-dependant world workingonit 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workingatit

In some ways it makes me feel better to know others are along...but yet sad at the same time. It is something I struggled with my whole life...not having a family or a strong support system is a hard thing to deal with. I also hate that I only have 1 child....I really wanted to have another child for her and for me.....I hate thinking she will head down the same lonely road I have.....

so glad to know there are many out there like me...when I see all these big fmailies around me I think sometimes I am the only one alone.....


----------



## GutPunch

workingatit said:


> In some ways it makes me feel better to know others are along...but yet sad at the same time. It is something I struggled with my whole life...not having a family or a strong support system is a hard thing to deal with. I also hate that I only have 1 child....I really wanted to have another child for her and for me.....I hate thinking she will head down the same lonely road I have.....
> 
> so glad to know there are many out there like me...when I see all these big fmailies around me I think sometimes I am the only one alone.....


I always told my wife that I wanted a big family. She said two and that's it. Ironically, my second child was probably one of the main factors that turned her to take drugs.


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## Chuck71

Her loss..........................Mr. Reality and Mrs. Karma will see to that


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## GutPunch

Having a really sad morning. The 180 is so hard when children are involved. My ex is steadily wanting to see them more and more. I vowed to myself to be accomodating for the kids sake. 

However, she decides to tag along to basketball with me last night. This morning I see her again as I drop my D off at her place. Too much time with her makes me very blue. I hardly speak to her and I see her try to make small talk to break the uncomfortable silence. Mourning the loss of my wife again this morning.


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## Chuck71

Be open to talks but cut them off when you are uncomfortable. She knows why you took the road you did. She is not ready to admit it. You're looking for something like I was, the non-negotiable. Stay firm.....if she smells sadness on you, the webs will be spun. Watch for the claws......threats of running things through the courts, her bankroll...........100/1 it's a hollow threat. Call her on it.....she will most likely back off of it or realize.....GP means business....oh sh!t


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## heartbrokephobia

Hang in there GP. This is the hardest thing I have ever dealt with in my life too. People say that it will get easier as time goes by, but in all honesty my wife and I have been separated for over 60 days and it hasn't gotten any easier for me. I am trying the 180 too in an attempt to heal myself and secretly hoping that we remain married but my hopes of R are very very low.

She sent me an email telling me that she is sorry for the pain she has caused but she can't change any of it. And that the love required to stay my wife isn't there and the D is the best path to continue to follow, and that her feelings for me have not changed. This broke my heart even more when I read this and I sent her a let go email pretty much telling her that I am no longer an option and I am moving on with my life without her. 

I am thankful though that this site is here, without I honestly don't know how I would begin to deal with this nightmare. It continues to rip me apart.


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## Chuck71

HBP-I was where you are not too long ago. You can read my last two threads and see it clearly. There is a better place for you....keep up the good fight. It's tough but the greater the challenge the sweeter the victory....if it can be called such. Do you have a thread here?


----------



## heartbrokephobia

Chuck, Yes I do, it's a long one but it's pretty much a diary of what has happened. It's http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/64932-phobia-nightmare.html


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## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Having a really sad morning. The 180 is so hard when children are involved. My ex is steadily wanting to see them more and more. I vowed to myself to be accomodating for the kids sake.
> 
> However, she decides to tag along to basketball with me last night. This morning I see her again as I drop my D off at her place. Too much time with her makes me very blue. I hardly speak to her and I see her try to make small talk to break the uncomfortable silence. Mourning the loss of my wife again this morning.


I know this feeling well. 

Am trying to see it this way though: If there were no children I could just go NC and be done with her. It would be so much easier. But if I can really heal, work through this, become skilled at co-parenting, and move on with her still in my life... I will be that much stronger! I will have grown, much, much more than the former scenario.


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## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> Having a really sad morning. The 180 is so hard when children are involved. My ex is steadily wanting to see them more and more. I vowed to myself to be accomodating for the kids sake.
> 
> However, she decides to tag along to basketball with me last night. This morning I see her again as I drop my D off at her place. Too much time with her makes me very blue. I hardly speak to her and I see her try to make small talk to break the uncomfortable silence. Mourning the loss of my wife again this morning.


Yes Z is right there will be days like this.

You must let go, work at it, you can do it!

Your feelings are like drugs, they make you do stupid things, learn to control them.


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## Chuck71

UTube styx days like these 1990


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## GutPunch

On a lighter note, I can't cook for sh**. I need a website for single dads for easy quick meals. Hot dogs and pizza are not gonna get it every night. I am just so deficient in time with work and sports. I need help.


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## zillard

GutPunch said:


> On a lighter note, I can't cook for sh**. I need a website for single dads for easy quick meals. Hot dogs and pizza are not gonna get it every night. I am just so deficient in time with work and sports. I need help.


Do you like burritos? 

I do this once a month or so. Fill a crockpot with dry pinto beans and water. Throw in chopped bacon onion and some spices. Cook on low overnight. Then smash.

Throw some rice in a pot with some tomato, onion & spices or salsa and water (spanish rice). 

Wrap a bunch of burritos and freeze em. I make about 30 each time.


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## GutPunch

zillard said:


> Do you like burritos?
> 
> I do this once a month or so. Fill a crockpot with dry pinto beans and water. Throw in chopped bacon onion and some spices. Cook on low overnight. Then smash.
> 
> Throw some rice in a pot with some tomato, onion & spices or salsa and water (spanish rice).
> 
> Wrap a bunch of burritos and freeze em. I make about 30 each time.


Thanks Z ....that's a start. That kind of stuff is exactly what I'm looking for.


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## C-man

GutPunch said:


> On a lighter note, I can't cook for sh**. I need a website for single dads for easy quick meals. Hot dogs and pizza are not gonna get it every night. I am just so deficient in time with work and sports. I need help.


I'd recommend a slow cooker. Easy to use and you can turn it on when you go to work and when you come home the meal is ready. It's great for my kids too.

An easy pulled pork recipe for a slow cooker - 

get a Pork Shoulder or Butt (ahhhh God, can't say Butt without triggering..) Trim off excess fat.

Chop up one medium size onion. Brown the onion.

Put onions in Slow Cooker - put Pork on top. Pour in one large bottle of ROOT beer.

Cook it on low for the day.

When you get home - take out the pork - put into a large pan or dish and pull it apart using two forks. Put excess into baggies and freeze for another day if you have too much.

Serve on buns with a good Barbecue sauce (I like it with coleslaw - kids just like it with just BBQ sauce.)


You can also do Ribs really easily. Slow cook them on low and if you have a grill - throw them on to brown it. - or just eat them as is. Tons of recipes on the web for slow cookers.


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## C-man

GutPunch said:


> Thanks Z ....that's a start. That kind of stuff is exactly what I'm looking for.


Might be a good topic for a thread - easy single parent recipes.


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## HappyKaty

GP - 

The crock pot is a life saver.

Throw in all the ingredients for spaghetti sauce, before work, and when you get home, just cook the pasta.

Pot roast is a one-pot dinner - roast, potatoes, carrots and onions.

Another thing you could do is prepare a couple of casseroles on Sunday and refrigerate them. When you get home from work, just slide 'em into the oven to heat up, and dinner is served.


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## zillard

I use this one for burrito filler too, but is good on it's own (goes further in burritos though):

Brown a chopped onion, bell pepper and garlic.
Toss in a can of black beans, can of diced tomato, cup of frozen corn.
Add 2/3 - 1 cup of rice + a can of V8 or tomato juice and a little water. 
Spices (italian, cumin, s&p)

Once hot, put in casserole dish with 3-4 chicken breasts on top (maybe some paprika on top). 
Cover w/foil and put in oven for 1 hour. 

After that I pull the chicken apart, mix it and wrap burritos. 

Can you tell I like burritos?


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## HappyKaty

Z - 

Your burrito recipes rock.

I'm on the way to the grocery store, now.


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## zillard

HappyKaty said:


> Z -
> 
> Your burrito recipes rock.
> 
> I'm on the way to the grocery store, now.


For the chicken one you throw it in at 375 for 50-60mins. The chicken comes out awesome!


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## GutPunch

C-man said:


> Might be a good topic for a thread - easy single parent recipes.


Beats talking about my wife. :smthumbup:


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## familyfirst09

Hey its not just men who can't cook, I suck at cooking for just 2 and to make things worse, my D is getting "chubby". Campbells soup!! Tons of recipes on the cans! I make a lot of casseroles so I can freeze left overs. Also, website calls bestrecipes.com (I think) lots of good ideas there too. 

Sorry you are having a down day, its so hard when you have to see them a few times in a row. That was me on saturday/sunday, had to see him 3 different times. But now I don't have to see him again til tuesday so I'm trying my hardest with the 180s and NC. 

Remember the goal is your kids, when you have to look at her and talk to her, remember she did this, not you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

Need recipe for homemade chili???? throw me a pm.... spaghetti? cube steak? i know about 12 things and am really great at it, outside that.........i'm kinda lost. ex was dynamite cook. luckily mom is too 8>)


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## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> Need recipe for homemade chili???? throw me a pm.... spaghetti? cube steak? i know about 12 things and am really great at it, outside that.........i'm kinda lost. ex was dynamite cook. luckily mom is too 8>)


One of my big problems is that dinner time is a power struggle with my son. A battle I used to rage nightly. I have since surrendered to him on this one. Some battles just aren't worth it and man is he strong willed. I quit caring and now he is slowly opening to variety. 

And then my little girl will eat sardines out of a can. :scratchhead:


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## Chuck71

iT IS MOST LIKELY TIED TO HIS COPING WITH THE d. hE WANTS TO CONTROL SOMETHING...sorry caps..........i see this very often in boys and girls. sad though many girls in their teens become anorexic. for now....."let him win".....


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> iT IS MOST LIKELY TIED TO HIS COPING WITH THE d. hE WANTS TO CONTROL SOMETHING...sorry caps..........i see this very often in boys and girls. sad though many girls in their teens become anorexic. for now....."let him win".....



No, he has always been this way. Slowly improving.


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## GutPunch

Really...Bring my daughter home to me early with a giant splinter in her a$$. Thanks a bunch hun. NO nap today either .... Great! Didn't look to see if son had homework ...Outstanding.


BTW Next time they come to your house ... they are getting a 5 hour energy and pixie sticks for breakfast.


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## lee101981

Smart a$$!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

Looks like I got nothing. Absolutely nothing to bit$$ about. Kind of disappointed. We are busy at work. Any broken hearted engineers need a job? Oh wait I need productive people. Not losers like me reading TAM when they should be working.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stella Moon

HappyKaty said:


> GP -
> 
> The crock pot is a life saver.
> 
> Throw in all the ingredients for spaghetti sauce, before work, and when you get home, just cook the pasta.
> 
> Pot roast is a one-pot dinner - roast, potatoes, carrots and onions.
> 
> Another thing you could do is prepare a couple of casseroles on Sunday and refrigerate them. When you get home from work, just slide 'em into the oven to heat up, and dinner is served.


Yep!!! 
Seriously...get a crock pot...toss stuff in it...you come home...it's done...you can get ideas off of the internet to toss in the pot...


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## Chuck71

Still waiting for your road trip to the lake! They need engineers here TRUST ME lol! Nothing like steak......drinks.....2AM....shooting the sh!t.....I'll have a seat saved!


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## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> Still waiting for your road trip to the lake! They need engineers here TRUST ME lol! Nothing like steak......drinks.....2AM....shooting the sh!t.....I'll have a seat saved!


I'm there if I could ever get caught up at work. This weekend will make 21 straight days without an off day. I am happy to be busy because my business took a hit back in 2009. Maybe this is the year we get back to the 2008 levels of business. Construction has been decimated by the recession.


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## Bullwinkle

GutPunch, where are you, amigo, you okay? Hope you're not throwing a frozen pizza into the oven....


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## GutPunch

I'm fine and I'm getting stronger. Getting to the point where indifference is setting in. Saw her several times over the weekend with basketball and baseball tryouts and such. Starting to notice flaws. She just doesn't seem to be as beautiful as she once did. 

Yea, I definitely need some cooking classes or my own kids are gonna divorce me. 

Did I mention on here that my ex actually divorced her own parents at 16 and her first husband at 20. By George, I think we got a runner. Married me at 22. 

I also noticed a big ole rash on her chest. Don't know what that was. Hope it's stress.


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## Bullwinkle

Don't recall the divorcing her own parents thing. A basic Psych 101 class would do a case study on that. 

I envy your indifference. Last time I saw mine, she's never looked better. You know the drill, weight loss, new makeup, cleavage. 

Fried Spam, you can't go wrong, no recipe necessary.


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## GutPunch

Well the indifference comes with time and the 180. I am not eating fried spam. Does not follow the 180 guideline of taking care of yourself and it's gross.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Was joking about the spam. 

Hang tough, sounds like you are making progress.


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> Well the indifference comes with time and the 180. I am not eating fried spam. Does not follow the 180 guideline of taking care of yourself and it's gross.


Hahahahaha 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> I'm fine and I'm getting stronger. Getting to the point where indifference is setting in. Saw her several times over the weekend with basketball and baseball tryouts and such. Starting to notice flaws. She just doesn't seem to be as beautiful as she once did.
> 
> Yea, I definitely need some cooking classes or my own kids are gonna divorce me.
> 
> Did I mention on here that my ex actually divorced her own parents at 16 and her first husband at 20. By George, I think we got a runner. Married me at 22.
> 
> I also noticed a big ole rash on her chest. Don't know what that was. Hope it's stress.


I need to start looking for flaws....I just think "damn he looks good!". I bet he now probably looks at me and sees my flaws in disgust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

FF who cares what he thinks? What do YOU think? I think your awesome. So does everyone else on TAM. Sure you got codependency issues like most of us on here. I say that's a whole lot better than being a selfish a$$.


----------



## K.C.

:iagree:


----------



## Bullwinkle

FF, GutPunch is right. 

And your H's wake up moment I coming.


----------



## familyfirst09

Aww thank you (I have to write this down and show my therapist haha, part of my "self esteem" homework ha!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

GP - do you ever think that your W won't have her wake up moment? Or do you just not give a sh!t anymore? I think I need to realize that H is not going to have his wake up moment. That he truly is happy with subservient POSOW (she has no friends no life outside of H and their work) and being a sh!tty [email protected]@ father. He always said he wanted a simple life. He can't have that with me, its not possible being a full time husband and a full time father with responsibilities and bills and a house to take care of etc. 

The life he has chosen will also NOT be simple but he doesn't see that....yet...when he realizes that I'm pretty sure D and I will be long gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

She has already had that moment once. I did not think I was seeing the kind of remorse I should be seeing. I told her no when she suggested marriage counseling. I told her she should have recommended that before cheating on me. 

Some people don't like the stresses of work, household, and kids. Our spouses seem to be two that are not capable. They are into "me" time. 

I wish my wife could show the kind of remorse it would take to win me over. I think she is too selfish to sustain it.


----------



## familyfirst09

Well then her loss I'd say. 
Its funny, I seem to be the exact opposite. My IC said she has not met anyone as determined as me to "right my wrongs" in a very long time. I know I still hope (there's that word again) that he will notice and care but regardless I know I still have to make my inner changes for me and D. I think that's why I read EI's thread a lot, because her H actually cared enough to stick around through thick and thin. I dispise the person I was and I never want to be that way again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I told her no when she suggested marriage counseling. I told her she should have recommended that before cheating on me.


Right!



GutPunch said:


> Some people don't like the stresses of work, household, and kids. Our spouses seem to be two that are not capable. They are into "me" time.


Add another one to that list. X wanted me to get a vasectomy because she didn't want any more kids after D6. I went through with it because I didn't think she could handle another one.


----------



## familyfirst09

zillard said:


> Right!
> 
> 
> 
> Add another one to that list. X wanted me to get a vasectomy because she didn't want any more kids after D6. I went through with it because I didn't think she could handle another one.


You can get that reversed....ouch!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

Yea...I told my wife no thanks. She asked me to get it done.


----------



## heartbrokephobia

GP, You are my idol, I hope I have the strength to cope with this sh!t the way you do one day. I am still in the pain and sorrow phase.


----------



## familyfirst09

heartbrokephobia said:


> GP, You are my idol, I hope I have the strength to cope with this sh!t the way you do one day. I am still in the pain and sorrow phase.


Agree!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

Glad to hear you're getting past things. It's all stages. It's hard to comment on posts when you log in at 4am......every sane person is asleep (hint)! You pulled out of the web about a month ago. Stay on track. When you serve D papers.....look for more rashes.....and irrational behaviour.


----------



## GutPunch

heartbrokephobia said:


> GP, You are my idol, I hope I have the strength to cope with this sh!t the way you do one day. I am still in the pain and sorrow phase.




I've been here a while longer than you HBP. I know your pain. It gets better with time. It's a process that you cannot weasle out of. Don't think I don't still think about it constantly. I just tell myself I don't deserve what she has to offer.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> She has already had that moment once. I did not think I was seeing the kind of remorse I should be seeing. I told her no when she suggested marriage counseling. I told her she should have recommended that before cheating on me.
> 
> Some people don't like the stresses of work, household, and kids. Our spouses seem to be two that are not capable. They are into "me" time.
> 
> I wish my wife could show the kind of remorse it would take to win me over. I think she is too selfish to sustain it.


When did she suggest marriage counseling?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> When did she suggest marriage counseling?


On page 17 and 18 of my thread approx. one month ago. She had called me boohooing wanting her family back. She wanted to R and rugsweep everything. Unfortunately I was too weak and vunerable. I slept with her. I was needy and unattractive. She then pulled away from me. Told me she wasn't ready for this and would be using me as a crutch to solve her problems. I lied but I told her I agreed totally. Broke my heart. 

She brought the kids home to me a few days later and suggested the marriage counseling. I declined.

I felt at the time I needed to be in control. A man about it. The week we tried to reconcile, she was not showing the remorse I think would be necessary for R. I felt like plan B. 

If she wants to be with me, shouldn't she be giving it her all?


----------



## Conrad

Is she doing any IC?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Is she doing any IC?


Yes, has been for a while. She is also in NA meetings. Clean for one year this month.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Yes, has been for a while. She is also in NA meetings. Clean for one year this month.


Ask her about that.

Is the therapist confronting her?

What is she learning?

If she sounds like she's starting to take responsibility for herself, the cool, firm, and dispassionate thing for you to do is schedule and MC appointment.

Tell her when it is.

If she doesn't attend, you go.

And, never say a word if she skips it.


----------



## GutPunch

She has been in IC since before the A. She shows me no desire to want to work things out. Told me that her Lawyer was reviewing the D settlement. Have not heard back. Never talks to me about relationship or divorce.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> She has been in IC since before the A. She shows me no desire to want to work things out. Told me that her Lawyer was reviewing the D settlement. Have not heard back. Never talks to me about relationship or divorce.


I'm giving you a way to see where she's at without looking weak.

If you're interested, take it.

The other road is to just proceed with the divorce and see if she cracks.

It just sounded like you were conflicted over the counseling offer.


----------



## GutPunch

She has been in IC since before the A. Nothing has changed. She had a weak moment last month and reversed. She said she is reviewing the divorce settlement with her Lawyer. I do not want to reach out to her. She does not show any interest in R. 

I deserve better. She should be working hard to fix this. She is not. She clearly does not think it is worth fixing or fighting for. I am better than that. I am getting better C, not quite so sure I want her back. I am definitely sure that she would have to move mountains to win me over. Is she capable?


----------



## old timer

GutPunch; said:


> I am getting better C, not quite so sure I want her back.


You're getting there, GP. 

I realize it is much harder to let go when there are kids at home involved. 
Been there years ago. 

But you're getting there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

I am glad to see Conrad back on here. He has officially got me second guessing myself. What do I want?


----------



## familyfirst09

What is it that you want to see from her? What do you need for her to do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

I would like for her to reach out first. Accept responsibility for what she has done. Effort is what I want to see. Lots and lots of effort.
Remorse would be good to. Not that boohooing crap she did last month cause SHE was lonely over the holidays. I am talking regret for the pain she caused ME and especially the pain my precious son and baby girl have endured. 

I don't think she's capable. Not the greatest childhood. Never has been the affectionate type. She legally divorced her own parents for Christs sake.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I would like for her to reach out first. Accept responsibility for what she has done. Effort is what I want to see. Lots and lots of effort.
> Remorse would be good to. Not that boohooing crap she did last month cause SHE was lonely over the holidays. I am talking regret for the pain she caused ME and especially the pain my precious son and baby girl have endured.
> 
> I don't think she's capable. Not the greatest childhood. Never has been the affectionate type. She legally divorced her own parents for Christs sake.


Read what I told That Girl about rough childhoods.

Are you up for that?


----------



## GutPunch

I don't think she was abused or anything. I believe from what I have observed is that her parents were not very loving or attentive to her. Hell her brothers were never taught how to ride a bike catch a ball. Nothing. Uninvolved parents. Similar to mine. My Mom grew up in an extremely abusive house and my Dad is an alcoholic. Not a very loving situation. I was a lonely only child. Never at home unless I had to be. Thank goodness for my Grandmother who gave me the uncondiotional love I needed and craved as a child.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP -

I agree with Conrad. Set up the MC appt in a cool dispassionate way. See if she shows up. 

This is a simple way to hang on to your cajones and pride and hurt, yet leaving the door open just a crack. 

To me you got nothing to lose at this point. And she might surprise you.


----------



## Chuck71

Keep in mind 1 MC may merit 1 spider web. ALWAYS expect a "booby" trap, no pun intended.....well maybe a little 8>)


----------



## GutPunch

I am not reaching out to this woman. Maybe my pride will be the death of my marriage but I am not reaching out. She cheated on me with drugs and then another man. I am done. I need to see letters like HappyKaty got yesterday for me to even think about reconsidering. I don't know if I have even got it in me to get over infidelity, but it's real easy when she is not even trying.


----------



## GutPunch

STBXW has now gone dark. Is she going to sign the papers? I think I'll email the Lawyer and see what's going on. This process is taking too long. I want her to sign uncontested but I may just have to file.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> STBXW has now gone dark. Is she going to sign the papers? I think I'll email the Lawyer and see what's going on. This process is taking too long. I want her to sign uncontested but I may just have to file.


When has she followed through on anything?

C'mon Punch.

50,000 feet brother.


----------



## GutPunch

Well she did go see the Lawyer. Her Lawyer wrote my Lawyer a letter. Wants me to change some things in the Divorce settlement. Fixing to go home and look at it. 

Why am I so sad. I guess part of me thought that she was bluffing.

I guess this is it.


----------



## GutPunch

I thought I was at 50,000 feet but those divorce papers knocked me down to Earth.


----------



## Bullwinkle

You're like the rest of us, GP. 

You did everything you could, you did the 180, you read the books. 

But deep down what you yearned for was she would come to you, apologize, be truly repentant, tell you she loved you.

We all feel your pain.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> You're like the rest of us, GP.
> 
> You did everything you could, you did the 180, you read the books.
> 
> But deep down what you yearned for was she would come to you, apologize, be truly repentant, tell you she loved you.
> 
> We all feel your pain.


That's all I want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## heartbrokephobia

Hey GP, I have had some setbacks today too. I saw my STBXW in the arms of another man today. It really hit me hard and you know what, I didn't have the balls to confront her or him, I opened the door to the bar and saw them, closed the door and left. I keep holding onto hope that she will express regret, come back to me etc, but nothing could be further from the truth right now. She is living it up at the bars and I don't think she gives me any thought. I will never know if I jumped the gun on the divorce, I second guess my actions everyday. Right now, I think it was the worst mistake I have ever made.


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> That's all I want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its what we all want my brother, but as you or some other wise person on TAM said, we don't always get what we want, but we get what we NEED.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Seeing the papers really set me back.
It's the end game. My marriage is over. 
I get primary custody, home, child support but
what I don't get is a loving wife. 

HBP hang in there. This stuff is like a roller
coaster. If you saw her in another man's arms
then divorce is your only option. You can't share.
It just plain sux. I wish my wife had OM then l
could move on easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## devastated3343

heartbrokephobia said:


> Hey GP, I have had some setbacks today too. I saw my STBXW in the arms of another man today. It really hit me hard and you know what, I didn't have the balls to confront her or him, I opened the door to the bar and saw them, closed the door and left. I keep holding onto hope that she will express regret, come back to me etc, but nothing could be further from the truth right now. She is living it up at the bars and I don't think she gives me any thought. I will never know if I jumped the gun on the divorce, I second guess my actions everyday. Right now, I think it was the worst mistake I have ever made.


I know *exactly* how you feel.


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> but
> what I don't get is a loving wife.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But that is not what you would get with HER. You will with someone else tho when the time is right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, I hear you about almost wishing W had OM, that it would be traumatic but actually might hasten closure. If like previous poster I opened the door to the bar and saw W in the arms of another man, then I could go home with a clear mind, tear up the wedding pictures once and for all.


----------



## K.C.

Same feeling about OM here. It made me go looking for one even though I didn't actually suspect anything. I found what I thought was evidence and the anger made me feel for a few hours I could move on. Then I calmed down and dug some more and got the whole picture which wasn't what I had thought and I was back to square one but now certain she hadn't cheated.

Infidelity from either of us would be a deal breaker and when I thought I had found some, it felt strangely good as well as crushing. I think it was just that it would have let me play the whole blame-shifting thing. Would have made it easier but at least this way, I really am facing my demons. If I had an affair to blame, maybe I wouldn't be looking so closely at myself.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Seeing the papers really set me back.
> It's the end game. My marriage is over.
> I get primary custody, home, child support but
> what I don't get is a loving wife.
> 
> HBP hang in there. This stuff is like a roller
> coaster. If you saw her in another man's arms
> then divorce is your only option. You can't share.
> It just plain sux. I wish my wife had OM then l
> could move on easier.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gut
Your wife is broken. You know that.
She has addictions and sadly you are not the one addiction she should have.

But you know what Gut? You will be ok. Because your wife knows one thing. You are the best parent for your kids.

And that truly shows you just how messed up she is.

Give it time. For yourself. Because your wifes future is very dim.
Yours is not.

HM64


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Gut
> Your wife is broken. You know that.
> She has addictions and sadly you are not the one addiction she should have.
> 
> But you know what Gut? You will be ok. Because your wife knows one thing. You are the best parent for your kids.
> 
> And that truly shows you just how messed up she is.
> 
> Give it time. For yourself. Because your wifes future is very dim.
> Yours is not.
> 
> HM64




Your right! Your right! Your right!

I know all of this. I should be happy to get this sweet deal uncontested. 

My heart mourns though. I still love what used to be.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Your right! Your right! Your right!
> 
> I know all of this. I should be happy to get this sweet deal uncontested.
> 
> My heart mourns though. I still love what used to be.


Stick with what is.

And, realize much of what we thought "was" existed only in our delusions.


----------



## Chuck71

At this point, always call her bluff......she may be feeling you out about the D. Be a rock..........trust me.....she will fold every time.


----------



## GutPunch

Picked the kiddos up. Hammered out the last couple of obstacles her lawyer
objected to. She gave me what I wanted. Looks like it's all over but the signing. 

I am one lucky dude to keep my kids and house. Still sad but relieved that this isn't
going to get nasty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

GutPunch said:


> Picked the kiddos up. Hammered out the last couple of obstacles her lawyer
> objected to. She gave me what I wanted. Looks like it's all over but the signing.
> 
> *I am one lucky dude to keep my kids* and house. Still sad but relieved that this isn't
> going to get nasty.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's great to hear!


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I am one lucky dude to keep my kids and house.


2nd best case scenario. 

Many things to be thankful for and many reasons to be proud of yourself.


----------



## Chuck71

A concession from knowing you are the better person. her admitting this....is more than you realize.


----------



## K.C.

Thats great to hear GP. Onwards an upwards.


----------



## familyfirst09

As Z said, its the second best scenario. 
What does "full" custody entail?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

The kids live with me. They visit Mommy every other weekend and on Wed. 3-7.

Here is a picture of my adorable six year old son that my idiot wife is giving up. Sometimes prayers are answered. Made the 7 & 8 year old All Star team as a 6 year old.


----------



## GutPunch

Can't decide who's more adorable.


----------



## familyfirst09

They are both adorable and both fortunate to have you as their dad. 

Not only are we clones, I think our spouses are as well. Sad...but better days ahead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Ahhhh GP

Nice pics my man. I have 3 kids to and will never understand a woman who can walk away or spend less time with their own children.

But I do know your STBXW is sick. You know it too.

As bad as the custody looks I am glad you have them and she was smart enough to give custody to you.

She knows they are better off with you.

That is good and sad at the same time.

Keep moving forward.

HM64


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> The kids live with me. They visit Mommy every other weekend and on Wed. 3-7.
> 
> Here is a picture of my adorable six year old son that my idiot wife is giving up. Sometimes prayers are answered. Made the 7 & 8 year old All Star team as a 6 year old.


Headed for a stellar career with the Crimson Tide


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Ahhhh GP
> 
> Nice pics my man. I have 3 kids to and will never understand a woman who can walk away or spend less time with their own children.
> 
> But I do know your STBXW is sick. You know it too.
> 
> As bad as the custody looks I am glad you have them and she was smart enough to give custody to you.
> 
> She knows they are better off with you.
> 
> That is good and sad at the same time.
> 
> Keep moving forward.
> 
> 
> Your right. She absolutely knows this. Has even admitted it to me. It is good and sad at the same time. Nice post.
> 
> 
> HM64


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

Just checking in. I know it's very sad for you but you really have some great kids. 

Hang tough.


----------



## BFGuru

Your kiddos are adorable.


----------



## zillard

awesome


----------



## devastated3343

Painful stuff. Signing the papers has this ring of finality to it, something monumental and violent that you can't ever un-know. You didn't ask for this, and even taking action still leaves you feeling less than you were. 

You're not, of course, but it hurts. They ("they") say you'll meet someone new and that this will all seem foreign to you, like someone else's life. The period in between is hard, when you've been with your partner for so long it just feels strange to be on your own. 

I wish you the best. Feel free to get inslopsticated when the papers are signed (or, if you're meeting to sign them, arrive in such a state) as a method to commemorate the occasion. I'm planning such. I only drink one or twice a year anyway, may as well make a memory.

Anyway, if "they" can be believed, happier times will come and this will seem like a dream - you'll remember the events but less so the pain or despair. I wish it for you (and for myself, frankly).


----------



## 06Daddio08

GutPunch said:


> Can't decide who's more adorable.


Clearly, it's Spider-Man.

Cute kiddos!


----------



## Chuck71

Kids are cute....take after dad i guess. Quote me on this....."your wife/ex is a complete moron"......

Karma is nowhere near the term when they (kids) grow older and judge her. Dante's 8th ring of he!! comes to mind.

What would be karma is she falls madly in love with a guy who has 7 kids.....and each child is a chatter box.....


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> What would be karma is she falls madly in love with a guy who has 7 kids.....and each child is a chatter box.....



No way that happens. He won't have enought time to make sure everything is 100% about her with the seven kids and all. She couldn't handle the two she had. 

She did come to his basketball game this morning with doughnuts. Mom of the year. Seven kids she'd jump off a bridge first. lol


----------



## happyman64

> She did come to his basketball game this morning with doughnuts.


Hey GP, at least she did that.

All you can do now is encourage her to be their mother.

And encourage to be a good person.


----------



## GutPunch

I don't know what's going on with me but it seems I have lost my ability to keep my thread updated. What does it mean when you run out of stuff to say?


----------



## familyfirst09

It means that things are returning to normal...that you have mastered the art of "meh"

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

Clarification: the NEW normal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## K.C.

Damn I wish I would run out of things for my thread.

Sounds like a good thing so long as you still hang out.


----------



## familyfirst09

Of course he is, he has to help pick out my next husband 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

You've run out of things to say because you've got an inkling of closure. 

But in a day or two she will do or say something so outrageous that you'll be back so you can vent and not school the life out of her.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I meant to say choke, not school.


----------



## old timer

familyfirst09 said:


> It means that things are returning to normal...that you have mastered the art of "meh"
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha, so true ff09. 

Just dawned on me I've made only a couple of posts to my journal thread in the last week or so. And the last post was only to post some Mardi Gras pics.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

I don't think I am quite Meh just yet. I still think about her too much. However, life goes on. I need to hangout with Hi Road or Z and maybe catch some scraps.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I don't think I am quite Meh just yet. I still think about her too much. However, life goes on. I need to hangout with Hi Road or Z and maybe catch some scraps.


Gut, you're in AL, right?

I'm in the Bham area.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

old timer said:


> Gut, you're in AL, right?
> 
> I'm in the Bham area.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You boys need to head to New Orleans for a guys weekend.


----------



## old timer

Conrad said:


> You boys need to head to New Orleans for a guys weekend.


Ive been in NOLA twice over the last month. Last weekend for Mardi Gras, but I'm ready to go back anytime 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

We can have a damn good "guys weekend" right here in Alerbamy, btw
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I don't think I am quite Meh just yet. I still think about her too much. However, life goes on. I need to hangout with Hi Road or Z and maybe catch some scraps.


No table scraps for you, brother! You deserve a steak.


----------



## Conrad

old timer said:


> Ive been in NOLA twice over the last month. Last weekend for Mardi Gras, but I'm ready to go back anytime
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My favorite city


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Gut, you're in AL, right?
> 
> I'm in the Bham area.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


90 miles south on I-65


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> My favorite city


I go to NO about once every two years. Love it! Nothing beats a crawfish breakfast burrito.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I go to NO about once every two years. Love it! Nothing beats a crawfish breakfast burrito.


I believe Janie and I will be traveling there later this year.

I'll keep you guys in the loop.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> No table scraps for you, brother! You deserve a steak.


I love steak just don't know if I'm ready for steak. A girl with a big ole tiger tatoo would intimidate the shi* out of me.


----------



## GutPunch

Different day same ole vent post.

6:30AM Text - EX: I have to work this weekend.

ME: Please tell the children on Wednesday. I will keep them for you this weekend. I have plans already made with the children for the next weekend. 

The last sentence isn't true but screw her. This again is about wanting her weekends to be kid free. Now she will be the victim of me keeping her away from her kids. She has her fricken work schedule like a month in advance. She could have kept them this weekend. She thinks I am here to serve her. Those days are over. I got fired as husband!


----------



## zillard

She'll keep doin it to until you put a stop to it. 

You rescued her without her even asking for your help.


----------



## Chuck71

Drop the "please"
her world is not including the kids
good for you
btw-SE TN has the "country gals"
wild n crazy....just like NO but less congested 8>)
try finding moonshine on Burbon St lol


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Different day same ole vent post.
> 
> 6:30AM Text - EX: I have to work this weekend.
> 
> ME: Please tell the children on Wednesday. I will keep them for you this weekend. I have plans already made with the children for the next weekend.
> 
> The last sentence isn't true but screw her. This again is about wanting her weekends to be kid free. Now she will be the victim of me keeping her away from her kids. She has her fricken work schedule like a month in advance. She could have kept them this weekend. She thinks I am here to serve her. Those days are over. I got fired as husband!


You have plans every weekend from here on out.

Ever been to Missouri? I've got a spare bedroom.

I'm serious.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> 90 miles south on I-65


Just came thru twice last week. Picked up a friend in Mobile and then dropped her off on the way to and from NOLA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

old timer said:


> Just came thru twice last week. Picked up a friend in Mobile and then dropped her off on the way to and from NOLA.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like a great weekend.

You visit Frenchman Street?


----------



## old timer

Conrad said:


> You visit Frenchman Street?


Yessir, sure did. I like Frenchman...more local peeps.

This is one of my faves:


----------



## Conrad

old timer said:


> Yessir, sure did. I like Frenchman...more local peeps.
> 
> This is one of my faves:


The Dude who plays the washboard down there is unforgettable.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> You have plans every weekend from here on out.
> 
> Ever been to Missouri? I've got a spare bedroom.
> 
> I'm serious.



I am happier when I have the kids. She doesn't want to keep them then I will. She wants me to give up the following weekend. I call it custody cake eating. I have in the past, this time it's a big NO! I have warned her twice to avoid this situation by looking at her work schedule ahead of time but she doesn't listen. This time there is consequences.

That's a good little drive to Missouri. I appreciate all of your support thru this guys. No man should have to endure that kind of pain. I remember I saw a thread that asked would you rather be beat up or cheated on. Easiest question I have ever seen. A$$ wuppin stops hurtin in a few days. Infidelity is a gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## GutPunch

I just got the finalized divorce settlement emailed from my Lawyer to her Lawyer and I. Should I be a nice old chap and forward it to her? Tell her it's signing time.


----------



## Chuck71

gametime.................


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I just got the finalized divorce settlement emailed from my Lawyer to her Lawyer and I. Should I be a nice old chap and forward it to her? Tell her it's signing time.


Cool

Firm

Dispassionate


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Cool
> 
> Firm
> 
> Dispassionate




You are right. No need to even contact her. That's her 
Lawyers job.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> You are right. No need to even contact her. That's her
> Lawyers job.


Any contact by you will be interpreted as clinging.


----------



## GutPunch

I don't like having 666 replies so I will say this.

Dolly Stanford is HOT HOT HOT

Makes me want to swim across the ocean.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I don't like having 666 replies so I will say this.
> 
> Dolly Stanford is HOT HOT HOT
> 
> Makes me want to swim across the ocean.


Join the club of those having an EA with her avatar.


----------



## GutPunch

Wife just checked my Match.com profile out. That bothers me for some reason. That means she is on there looking.

Here's the kicker. In her profile, honesty and integrity are important to her. WTF? Are you kidding me? 

I almost sent her a message but decided not too. Got my heart racing. So sad.

UGGGGHHHH! This really hurts!


----------



## zillard

she wants someone like you.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Wife just checked my Match.com profile out. That bothers me for some reason. That means she is on there looking.
> 
> Here's the kicker. In her profile, honesty and integrity are important to her. WTF? Are you kidding me?
> 
> I almost sent her a message but decided not too. Got my heart racing. So sad.


I had the lumber ready.


----------



## GutPunch

She also said that her two children were her world.
Really? Where are you? I can't believe it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> She also said that her two children were her world.
> Really? Where are you? I can't believe it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For dwelling on it.










You know better.


----------



## spun

GutPunch said:


> She also said that her two children were her world.
> Really? Where are you? I can't believe it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Heard it too, Gut.

From a woman who peels out with posOM for up to a week at a time and won't even return a voicemail from her little girls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Wife just checked my Match.com profile out. That bothers me for some reason. That means she is on there looking.
> 
> Here's the kicker. In her profile, honesty and integrity are important to her. WTF? Are you kidding me?
> 
> I almost sent her a message but decided not too. Got my heart racing. So sad.
> 
> UGGGGHHHH! This really hurts!


Maybe she wants to date you. She will be a single woman with no children soon.......


----------



## Chuck71

Kids are her world?
WTF world is that? Pluto (not even planet now)
My ex did that and caused her 8 NSF charges
flying blind is cool when you are 17
you are Neo, bullets no longer hurt
good bet shes realizing this


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

Just catching up on your thread. Loved the entry about her looking for a man with honesty and integrity. I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry. 

I was telling my lawyer yesterday that it's the little stuff that seems to hurt the most. Mine brought the big wedding picture she kept on her desk at work back and threw it in the trash. She changed her return address labels back to her maiden name. 

Hang tough, you're on the homestretch.


----------



## familyfirst09

BW, that's just plain sad and cruel. She will regret that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Maybe she wants to date you. She will be a single woman with no children soon.......


Wants to date anyone but me. She is a stubborn a$$.


----------



## GutPunch

Why is that internet dating site bothering me so much. Was it the fact I was still waiting on her Oh Shi* moment. Got my stomach in knots again. She's moving on and it is out of my control.


----------



## happyman64

Because GP you love your wife. The one you married.

This is normal and if you did not feel hurt r upset then you would not be human.

She is no good to you r the kids at this time.

You know it.

Be strong.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Why is that internet dating site bothering me so much. Was it the fact I was still waiting on her Oh Shi* moment. Got my stomach in knots again. She's moving on and it is out of my control.


Because you are still attached. 

Still looking at her as a possible source for your happiness. 

If you love her let her go. Drop that attachment. She needs to find her own happy. 

And her coming back won't make you happy. Only you can.


----------



## GutPunch

Seeing her grovel and me telling her no would make me happy. Is that too much too ask for. Her children are her world makes my blood pressure boil. 

She means her children are her world for 4 hours on Wednesday and every other weekend (if she don't have better things to do.)


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Seeing her grovel and me telling her no would make me happy.


why?


----------



## Bullwinkle

The internet dating thing would bother me a lot too, GP, can't deny it. But these other guys are right, let her go. She has a great husband and wonderful children and she's prowling the Internet. Just sad.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> why?


My overinflated ego, I guess.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> My overinflated ego, I guess.


No, because you're still codependent.

Most everyone following your story realizes she's currently an amoral idiot - and a rotten mother.

And, think of it... you want vindication by way of an amoral idiot/rotten mother.

That's going to make you feel better?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> No, because you're still codependent.
> 
> Most everyone following your story realizes she's currently an amoral idiot - and a rotten mother.
> 
> And, think of it... you want vindication by way of an amoral idiot/rotten mother.
> 
> That's going to make you feel better?



I keep forgetting that. Starting to think there might be some truth to the codependency thing. :smthumbup:


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> My overinflated ego, I guess.


I don't think its an ego thing at all. I think its a self esteem thing (or maybe that is ego?). I dunno but I tell ya, I'd love to see H grovel at my feet. I doubt anyone who has a WS would deny wanting that, some just say it outloud.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

Gut- I know it's much harder when there are young kids involved - especially so if they're with you and you have a constant reminder of your W at almost every moment.

You'll eventually detach. When you finally really do - that may be when you see some groveling - or you may not. Either way, it will be too late.


----------



## GutPunch

What FF said!


----------



## GutPunch

Text Message From Ex

X: I have friday off. I will get them Friday and bring them to you Saturday morning. Also would you mind dropping D at my house Thursday and Friday am. I work until 5 on Wed and will get them after work. Thanks.

Since I am clearly too codependent to make a rational decision, I need your help. My gut says to just say ok and run with it cause the papers are ready and I guess are just days away from being signed. Don't rock the boat until she signs the line which is dotted.

However, I feel like I am still catering to her whims. I want my kids to see there Mom. They love her and she loves them (as good as she knows how). I need some boundaries for the kids sake.


----------



## Conrad

Punch,

What do YOU want to do?


----------



## GutPunch

Go with the flow, Kids see their Mom and I get the uncontested Divorce and custody of my babies.


----------



## Chuck71

BW-I offered my ex $100 to take her maiden name back.....or even her 1st Hs name. EGH...


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Go with the flow, Kids see their Mom and I get the uncontested Divorce and custody of my babies.


Then do it and feel good about it.

BUT... if that still small voice in your head will hate you for giving her extra time with posOM (or whoever), don't do it.

Tune in.


----------



## Chuck71

Calm and steady.....stay the course
If it does not bother you, agree to change of agenda
You have the gift....you just have to believe you do
Oh....the 26 y/o gals.....they hate rap
more Zeplin, Skynard, Eagles
just a thought lol


----------



## GutPunch

chuck71 said:


> bw-i offered my ex $100 to take her maiden name back.....or even her 1st hs name. Egh...



love it!


----------



## GutPunch

I agree. Stay the course. My objective is to not rock the boat. When I get the D, then I will establish some tougher boundaries.


----------



## zillard

Nothing wrong with being strategic during D. As long as you don't compromise your core values.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I agree. Stay the course. My objective is to not rock the boat. When I get the D, then I will establish some tougher boundaries.


We're going to hold you to this.

Or, we're not only going to send the 2x4's, we'll send the entire lumber yard.


----------



## Chuck71

2x4s with nails in them lol


----------



## devastated3343

GutPunch said:


> Seeing her grovel and me telling her no would make me happy. Is that too much too ask for. Her children are her world makes my blood pressure boil.
> 
> She means her children are her world for 4 hours on Wednesday and every other weekend (if she don't have better things to do.)


This is a real feeling, and shouldn't be ignored. I know exactly what you mean, and I think the root is that she's the one that left you. She effectively said that there's something wrong with you, and that you can't have her any more. And if the positions were reversed, and she told you what a horrible mistake she made and she can't live with what she gave up, that would be very empowering. 

Maybe you've gotten to the point where you wouldn't take her back anyway, but to have the person who's been in your life this long acknowledge your value would probably feel better. But don't confuse an ego boost with self-esteem. You can't rely on her making some gesture that makes you feel better. You can't wait for her to miss you to believe that you are worth being missed. You have to believe in yourself. 

Personally, I've been really hesitant to try online dating. It sounds stupid, but part of the process is selling yourself with your profile, and if my STBXW or one of her friends saw it I feel like they would laugh. It shouldn't matter, but I don't feel good about being exposed to my ex that way. 

Good for you for putting a profile up. I know lots of people who have found their soul mates that way. The past is prologue, your ex-wife's path is separate from yours. You can't change her, you can't correct her lies and misdirections, you can't make her face her failings and expose them to the world. You can only live for yourself.

One day you'll be happy, and when that time comes you'll want her to be happy too. Because you loved her.


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> I agree. Stay the course. My objective is to not rock the boat. When I get the D, then I will establish some tougher boundaries.


Agree!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Reading other of your replies in this thread and others Gut I gotta ask cause this qualifies as one of the most effed up things I have seen here and that is saying something. 

Is this right???

Wife meets some drug dude at rehab. They have an EA. You catch her RIGHT BEFORE she gets into her car to make her EA a PA--LITERALLY. You tell her not to go to the hotel to consumate the deal threatening divorce... She goes anyway AND to top it off not only ignores you ignores her maternal instinct when her child cries for mommy not to go to some "bad place". You spend the evening being cuckolded and you know it...

If roughly right. How did you find out? Did she say anything as she was leaving? Her excuse? Even any regret in the eyes?

Hope the best for you man. just WOW. Sorry you are here.


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> I agree. Stay the course. My objective is to not rock the boat. When I get the D, then I will establish some tougher boundaries.


Good plan.

Whatever's not in writing is for you to decide since you have primary custody.


----------



## weightlifter

Read most of this thread Gut. Random things.

1 read the top thread in my sig and SEE yourself there in a month or two.
2 It sounds like your circle of friends is smallish. More friends or being the "cool guy" friends of friends and house parties gets you three things. a) distraction get your mind off it b) the possibility of random poon and it WILL mend your shattered ego. Wont do squat for your heart but hey 1 is better than none. c) (yes I know in the future)The more friends you have the more chances you have of some friend going "Hey I know this dude who is uber cool" to Mrs. futuregutpunch. Yes you wont know it at the time but you will find love again.

Cant say I argue too much about being semi nice until the D is final. After that you dont have to be nearly so nice. When IS it final?


----------



## Chuck71

Mrs. GP Order of Importance
1-her self
2-her friends
3-her delusions
4-her kids

WTF else needs to be said?

Curbside for you lil lady
she lost husband and two kids

I hope your nirvana is as plesant as you anticipated
honestly....nirvana is exactly what she needs
unless sh!t flows upstream
karma is Medusa on her period!


----------



## GutPunch

weightlifter said:


> Reading other of your replies in this thread and others Gut I gotta ask cause this qualifies as one of the most effed up things I have seen here and that is saying something.
> 
> Is this right???
> 
> Wife meets some drug dude at rehab. They have an EA. You catch her RIGHT BEFORE she gets into her car to make her EA a PA--LITERALLY. You tell her not to go to the hotel to consumate the deal threatening divorce... She goes anyway AND to top it off not only ignores you ignores her maternal instinct when her child cries for mommy not to go to some "bad place". You spend the evening being cuckolded and you know it...
> 
> If roughly right. How did you find out? Did she say anything as she was leaving? Her excuse? Even any regret in the eyes?
> 
> Hope the best for you man. just WOW. Sorry you are here.



Yep...you just summarized my life the last few months. I caught her thru the massive amount of text messages and was suspicious of the girl's weekend she had planned. Finally got a face with the OM number on DDAY. When she left, she said "I have to know if it's real?" Her excuse - We just drifted apart. Classic revisionism. 

No regret. After the holidays, she was lonely and tried to R but I just think she was crying cause she was lonely. No true remorse.


----------



## GutPunch

weightlifter said:


> Read most of this thread Gut. Random things.
> 
> 1 read the top thread in my sig and SEE yourself there in a month or two.
> 2 It sounds like your circle of friends is smallish. More friends or being the "cool guy" friends of friends and house parties gets you three things. a) distraction get your mind off it b) the possibility of random poon and it WILL mend your shattered ego. Wont do squat for your heart but hey 1 is better than none. c) (yes I know in the future)The more friends you have the more chances you have of some friend going "Hey I know this dude who is uber cool" to Mrs. futuregutpunch. Yes you wont know it at the time but you will find love again.
> 
> Cant say I argue too much about being semi nice until the D is final. After that you dont have to be nearly so nice. When IS it final?



I do need friends. Approaching 40 and have been married most of my adult life. I have lots of friends in my hometown. However, I moved away with the wife about 5 years ago and have not made any guy friends. Something that needs to be at the top of my priorty list.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I do need friends. Approaching 40 and have been married most of my adult life. I have lots of friends in my hometown. However, I moved away with the wife about 5 years ago and have not made any guy friends. Something that needs to be at the top of my priorty list.


And shortly afterward there will be women with tiger tattoos.


----------



## Chuck71

married to 40 sh!t jack excuse...............
sponsered by Women's Home and Garden


----------



## GutPunch

Why did I write approaching 40 when I am 40. LOL


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I do need friends. Approaching 40 and have been married most of my adult life. I have lots of friends in my hometown. However, I moved away with the wife about 5 years ago and have not made any guy friends. Something that needs to be at the top of my priorty list.


Sounds like an OT road trip to LA...
(Lower Alabama)

I can bring some tattooed wimmen


----------



## weightlifter

GutPunch said:


> I do need friends. Approaching 40 and have been married most of my adult life. I have lots of friends in my hometown. However, I moved away with the wife about 5 years ago and have not made any guy friends. Something that needs to be at the top of my priorty list.


Random thought. She gave you a FRONTAL EGO ***AND*** HEART ASSAULT. It is not just your heart. She completely crushed your ego. The reason it is so hard for you to move on is you are trying to repair both. 

Dude you CAN do this. You read that thread at the top of my sig right?

Go to the mirror and PICTURE YOURSELF on May 4, 2013:
1) You are at a house party. 
2) You see a medium attractive 32 year old with some friends. You do a ring check. NONE!
3) She sees you and gives you that shy smile.
4) She is only with one friend so you boldly go over and talk. (Your weenie wont fall off if she politely says no. Your weenie wont fall off if she says you are the ugliest POS she has ever seen. If she gave you a flirt smile there is a probability that she will at least talk to you which will up your confidence... and she might just fvck your brains out!
5) She's in to you but broke up 2 mos ago and is not ready to have a relationship.
6) You are all buff from going to the gym and she is horny.
7) One thing leads to another and you have sex.
8) Suddenly you feel like a new man JUST LIKE THAT THREAD. EGO repair COMPLETE! YES you are attractive, yes you are worthy. Now only having to heal your heart it will go MUCH faster... 

9) Nov 2, 2013 Heart repair complete. There are a few triggers but they are rare now. Days are mostly good and you love your sons Football.
10) You are at another house party. 
11) You notice a pretty 31 year old. You smile, she smiles back.
12) Her name is whatever your favorite name is and you cant help but love her smile and her eyes not just the good stuff that is covered by a bikini. There is JUST SOMETHING ABOUT HER that attracts you to her but you cant figure out what exactly (Its basic chemistry at work, you are very compatable. That is your gut giving you the green light)
13) Shes a single mom of 1. Divorced due to her husband cheating 4 years ago but has healed.
14) She is smart, funny, has a job, makes decent money, and her child has given her a good grounded personality...
blah blah blah
21) Having been here on these boards helping men timewise behind you just like you recover, with you now at 8000 posts you make an announcement. In 8 months you are getting married. Take note betrayed spouses you can recover.
22) You marry her on May 2, 2015. You fvck 9 times a week. Your balls sometimes ache from over use. She is totally into you and loves you with surreal but not clingy intensity. Since TAM boards has made you a far stronger man... She dies at old age as your wife never having given serious thought to cheating.
23) You die as an old man. Your last thoughts. Except for a rough year back 2012... My life was good, no regrets.

Picture it. You are happy... Tell yourself this everyday and MAKE it happen. You are NOT too old. Get going on expanding your friends circle. Baseball, camera clubs.. Take a non-club dance course at the local CC where women usually massively outnumber the men. Take a cooking class.

I also get the feeling once you get some random poon and it WILL heal your ego, your heart will heal faster because it is the last thing left.

???So this woman basically said "I am going to a hotel to fvck Fred Flintstone to see if it is real, leaving you with thoughts of "is she naked yet? Has he penetrated her yet?"????

I think I would have had to go to that doc.... site to find much sicker than that. You probably have some PTSD going on for such a frontal ego and heart assault.

BTW sorry to say and lets be very clear. MOVE ON, going to consumate an EA IN FRONT OF YOUR husband with you !!!KNOWING!!! and child is just sickening. She is broken. Get her the hell out of your life.

RUN FOREST RUN!!!!! Finish the D. Go to the gym. Buff up and follow the plan.


----------



## coachman

Could be my all time favorite post.


----------



## familyfirst09

weightlifter said:


> Random thought. She gave you a FRONTAL EGO ***AND*** HEART ASSAULT. It is not just your heart. She completely crushed your ego. The reason it is so hard for you to move on is you are trying to repair both.
> 
> Dude you CAN do this. You read that thread at the top of my sig right?
> 
> Go to the mirror and PICTURE YOURSELF on May 4, 2013:
> 1) You are at a house party.
> 2) You see a medium attractive 32 year old with some friends. You do a ring check. NONE!
> 3) She sees you and gives you that shy smile.
> 4) She is only with one friend so you boldly go over and talk. (Your weenie wont fall off if she politely says no. Your weenie wont fall off if she says you are the ugliest POS she has ever seen. If she gave you a flirt smile there is a probability that she will at least talk to you which will up your confidence... and she might just fvck your brains out!
> 5) She's in to you but broke up 2 mos ago and is not ready to have a relationship.
> 6) You are all buff from going to the gym and she is horny.
> 7) One thing leads to another and you have sex.
> 8) Suddenly you feel like a new man JUST LIKE THAT THREAD. EGO repair COMPLETE! YES you are attractive, yes you are worthy. Now only having to heal your heart it will go MUCH faster...
> 
> 9) Nov 2, 2013 Heart repair complete. There are a few triggers but they are rare now. Days are mostly good and you love your sons Football.
> 10) You are at another house party.
> 11) You notice a pretty 31 year old. You smile, she smiles back.
> 12) Her name is whatever your favorite name is and you cant help but love her smile and her eyes not just the good stuff that is covered by a bikini. There is JUST SOMETHING ABOUT HER that attracts you to her but you cant figure out what exactly (Its basic chemistry at work, you are very compatable. That is your gut giving you the green light)
> 13) Shes a single mom of 1. Divorced due to her husband cheating 4 years ago but has healed.
> 14) She is smart, funny, has a job, makes decent money, and her child has given her a good grounded personality...
> blah blah blah
> 21) Having been here on these boards helping men timewise behind you just like you recover, with you now at 8000 posts you make an announcement. In 8 months you are getting married. Take note betrayed spouses you can recover.
> 22) You marry her on May 2, 2015. You fvck 9 times a week. Your balls sometimes ache from over use. She is totally into you and loves you with surreal but not clingy intensity. Since TAM boards has made you a far stronger man... She dies at old age as your wife never having given serious thought to cheating.
> 23) You die as an old man. Your last thoughts. Except for a rough year back 2012... My life was good, no regrets.
> 
> Picture it. You are happy... Tell yourself this everyday and MAKE it happen. You are NOT too old. Get going on expanding your friends circle. Baseball, camera clubs.. Take a non-club dance course at the local CC where women usually massively outnumber the men. Take a cooking class.
> 
> I also get the feeling once you get some random poon and it WILL heal your ego, your heart will heal faster because it is the last thing left.
> 
> ???So this woman basically said "I am going to a hotel to fvck Fred Flintstone to see if it is real, leaving you with thoughts of "is she naked yet? Has he penetrated her yet?"????
> 
> I think I would have had to go to that doc.... site to find much sicker than that. You probably have some PTSD going on for such a frontal ego and heart assault.
> 
> BTW sorry to say and lets be very clear. MOVE ON, going to consumate an EA IN FRONT OF YOUR husband with you !!!KNOWING!!! and child is just sickening. She is broken. Get her the hell out of your life.
> 
> RUN FOREST RUN!!!!! Finish the D. Go to the gym. Buff up and follow the plan.


Friggin awesome. Will you do my horoscope next please :smthumbup:


----------



## old timer

weightlifter said:


> RUN FOREST RUN!!!!! Finish the D. Go to the gym. Buff up and follow the plan.


:iagree:


----------



## GutPunch

Great Post Weightlifter.....FYI my doctor told me after it happened, that my body had literally gone into shock. Had to immediately medicate me.


----------



## weightlifter

coachman said:


> Could be my all time favorite post.


which post? 

Anyway I want you to do that exercise every damn day. Visualize yourself as that man then make it happen. This healing time is perfect for buffing up mentally and physically.

IF you read that thread from beginning to end I mentioned you get to see the transformation. Yes you got hit ALOT harder. I get it. Im trying to think of worse anticipated thoughts than "Is my wife naked yet" and "has he penetrated her yet?" Which I assume you had. All I can come up with is family dieing. So yes your road is longer. 

Try places like alphagameplan and sosuave. Dont read everything into it but they do contain nuggets. LOTS OF THEM. Just do not overuse to the point of being cheesy.

edit 444. You sound like you have some money and more rooms than you need. Hit Sears for a real weight set (~2" bar not 1") and hit it hard.

Edit 445. add 17) She made you wait for sex for 5 weeks but showed up at your place wearing a coat which made no sense as it was warm out. It turns out she only was wearing the coat and a smile. 2 minutes later only a smile.... 4 exhausted hours later, you are holding her naked body as she dozes in your arms. It was different. Better... more intense...


----------



## staystrong

Great post. There is hope for the future


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

Weightlifter that was hilarious. Got a good laugh for the day just what I needed. Thank you.

GutPunch I'm right there with you about needing male friends right now. I have a few but they are married constantly busy with their own lives, which I completely understand. 

Hang in there you will get through this and remember don't blame yourself for this, it's the life she chose. I'm pretty sure my wife has got an OM also. But of course she gets mad at me for every little thing I do. Walking on eggshells not knowing which one will break. Meanwhile back at the bunny ranch she's having her cake and eating it too. 

I really don't want to get involved with a woman now. I feel like it would just complicate things. So I'm really looking for new male friends maybe who can relate. This forum has definitely been helpful. Thanks everyone.


----------



## familyfirst09

weightlifter said:


> which post?
> 
> Anyway I want you to do that exercise every damn day. Visualize yourself as that man then make it happen. This healing time is perfect for buffing up mentally and physically.
> 
> IF you read that thread from beginning to end I mentioned you get to see the transformation. Yes you got hit ALOT harder. I get it. Im trying to think of worse anticipated thoughts than "Is my wife naked yet" and "has he penetrated her yet?" Which I assume you had. All I can come up with is family dieing. So yes your road is longer.
> 
> Try places like alphagameplan and sosuave. Dont read everything into it but they do contain nuggets. LOTS OF THEM. Just do not overuse to the point of being cheesy.
> 
> edit 444. You sound like you have some money and more rooms than you need. Hit Sears for a real weight set (~2" bar not 1") and hit it hard.
> 
> Edit 445. add 17) She made you wait for sex for 5 weeks but showed up at your place wearing a coat which made no sense as it was warm out. It turns out she only was wearing the coat and a smile. 2 minutes later only a smile.... 4 exhausted hours later, you are holding her naked body as she dozes in your arms. It was different. Better... more intense...


Ummm, I have a feeling you could write a Really good book 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

weightlifter said:


> which post?
> 
> 
> edit 444. You sound like you have some money and more rooms than you need. Hit Sears for a real weight set (~2" bar not 1") and hit it hard.
> 
> 
> I've been lifting weights for about five years. Already have that room in my house.
> 
> QUOTE]


----------



## familyfirst09

Hurt Odyssey_DK HL said:


> Weightlifter that was hilarious. Got a good laugh for the day just what I needed. Thank you.
> 
> GutPunch I'm right there with you about needing male friends right now. I have a few but they are married constantly busy with their own lives, which I completely understand.
> 
> Hang in there you will get through this and remember don't blame yourself for this, it's the life she chose. I'm pretty sure my wife has got an OM also. But of course she gets mad at me for every little thing I do. Walking on eggshells not knowing which one will break. Meanwhile back at the bunny ranch she's having her cake and eating it too.
> 
> I really don't want to get involved with a woman now. I feel like it would just complicate things. So I'm really looking for new male friends maybe who can relate. This forum has definitely been helpful. Thanks everyone.


Same here, very few "single" friends. Its hard to make new friends at this age. I'm trying tho, feels so stupid lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

familyfirst09 said:


> Same here, very few "single" friends. Its hard to make new friends at this age. I'm trying tho, feels so stupid lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How hard is it to walk up to a stranger and introduce yourself?

It's as easy as that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

familyfirst09 said:


> Same here, very few "single" friends. Its hard to make new friends at this age. I'm trying tho, feels so stupid lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


All you have to do is act interested in them.


----------



## zillard

Yes. 

Just go where you normally would go and start conversation with a stranger - male or female. Cafe, bar, restaurant, gym, park, etc. Go alone. 

A little over a month of doing this just on Saturday nights and I now know two recently divorced guys in my neighborhood, a cute bartender, a waitress, two single moms at the school, and have numbers from 4 different women, 22-38.


----------



## Conrad

One other thing.

Make a habit of learning names.

People love it when you remember them.


----------



## familyfirst09

zillard said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just go where you normally would go and start conversation with a stranger - male or female. Cafe, bar, restaurant, gym, park, etc. Go alone.
> 
> A little over a month of doing this just on Saturday nights and I now know two recently divorced guys in my neighborhood, a cute bartender, a waitress, two single moms at the school, and have numbers from 4 different women, 22-38.


You stud you 
Guys seem to be able to do that sooooo much easier than women! I used to be a way more outgoing person than I am now, something to work on again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

Conrad said:


> One other thing.
> 
> Make a habit of learning names.
> 
> People love it when you remember them.


^^^This is a REAL nugget right here^^^

Nothing more important when making new acquaintances


----------



## zillard

familyfirst09 said:


> You stud you
> Guys seem to be able to do that sooooo much easier than women! I used to be a way more outgoing person than I am now, something to work on again.


Ha! 

I've always been shy. That's why I'm forcing myself to do this. Plus I work from home so if I don't I'll just turn into a recluse. 

It gets easier every single time.


----------



## old timer

zillard said:


> *It gets easier every single time.*


^^^Another golden nugget^^^

..
.


----------



## familyfirst09

Well why wait! Lol. Right at this moment I'm sitting in a pub all by myself and am going to have some supper all by myself while D is at one of her activities. I don't feel weird at all! Lol 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Ive got a business vendor comeing by and we are hitting the pub as well.


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Sounds like an OT road trip to LA...
> (Lower Alabama)
> 
> I can bring some tattooed wimmen



I'm all for it! Just make sure I don't have the kids.


----------



## familyfirst09

Awesome have fun!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Why did I write approaching 40 when I am 40. LOL


Because in your mind you are 30, single and need to get over your lousy wife so You can mingle....

Say that really fast 20 times or until you believe it.


----------



## familyfirst09

40 is the new 20 so I'm told 

GP - you have young kids right? How have they adjusted? Have you notice or did you deal with any behavioural changes? What about after they came back from being with mum?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> 40 is the new 20 so I'm told
> 
> GP - you have young kids right? How have they adjusted? Have you notice or did you deal with any behavioural changes? What about after they came back from being with mum?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My kids handled it better than me. 
I am there rock. I made sure their schedule
was consistent as possible. No changes in
behavior. Lots of sad sad questions from them
however.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

Yep, same here, but I'm noticing D's attitude is getting worse lately...I think she has adjusted well but I really don't like the attitude. Not sure if its because of all of this or the fact that's she's almost 6 lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

familyfirst09 said:


> Yep, same here, but I'm noticing D's attitude is getting worse lately...I think she has adjusted well but I really don't like the attitude. Not sure if its because of all of this or the fact that's she's almost 6 lol


Some of it could certainly be normal - they get cranky whenever they hit those developmental milestones. They suddenly know/understand more and push limits to see what will happen.

But watch it closely. I'm glad you have a child psychologist that you speak with about her. My D7 has been getting a little more testy lately too, due to anger she is feeling toward me and her mother.


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> due to anger she is feeling toward her mother.


Smart kid


----------



## Chuck71

GP / old timer.....I have a buddy in panama city beach who rents out condos. If you go....let me know.....could get you reduced rate. Club La Villa.....is on front beach road. was there labor day weekend '97........there he was....the moe howard look alike........donald trump LOL


----------



## weightlifter

zillard said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just go where you normally would go and start conversation with a stranger - male or female. Cafe, bar, restaurant, gym, park, etc. Go alone.
> 
> A little over a month of doing this just on Saturday nights and I now know two recently divorced guys in my neighborhood, a cute bartender, a waitress, two single moms at the school, and have numbers from 4 different women, 22-38.


Where is your number one place you get these contacts? Details may well be useful to others.

Glad y'all like my posts. 

Hilarious?:scratchhead: er uh ok not sure they were supposed to be funny but Ill take it. 

The idea is I present an image I want him to image in his head every day as a goal. I like seeing the "I just got poon" post after the betrayal. (so far I know of 2) I like good news, and that one is often the one that turns the corner. I would like the "I'm in love and getting married" posts even more, but understand I lurked here a while before but I registered Dec 2012. Any of the threads I have been a participant on... Love and marriage from just that point in time would seem kinda desperate.

So GP, what do ya bench?


----------



## familyfirst09

I'm still waiting for my horoscope 
My problem is I don't really go to a lot of places....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> OK I am lying on the bed with my 6 year old son and he becomes emotional. He asks me "why don't you love Mommy anymore?" I say who told you this? He says Mommy said it. She said this happens with grownups.
> 
> UGGGH! Way to put the blame on me you lying, cheating, drug addict POS. Aren't you out on a date with your ex(ex) husband.
> 
> Man I hate to see my son become emotional for solid reasons. I can take go to timeout tears but not these and I surely don't want the blame.


I may be way out of line here so I ask your forgiveness in advance. 

I had to stop at page theirteen and check something out.

Why did you start the 180 so soon. Applied properly the 180 is to get rid of the the wayward spouse NOT to win her back. When I first came here, the 180 was always recommended with this caveat.

The 180 can have the effect of making the WW jealous and wnat to come back. Doesn't usually happen that way though.

The first thing, if one wants to reconcile with a wayward wife is to break up the affair. 

From reading the first pages of the thread, your wife has no idea what you want and you have no idea what she wants.

She told your son, and probably believes, you want nothing to do with her. After al, it would ba natural assumption.

BTW the lady that invented the 180 has a website linked to in my signature.


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> angelpixie said:
> 
> 
> 
> GP -- have you gone to any type of counseling/support group for family members of people with drug or addiction problems? It might be helpful to interact with people who are dealing with some of those same types of emotional pulls towards someone with a dependency problem.
> 
> I see an IC that is all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She would have to pay the support. She seemed totally committed to the R and I think I got a little needy and she pulled back. She said she needed to work on herself and it wouldn't be fair to me. This all happened in less than a week I might add.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted her back so bad and to see her trying was awesome. When she pulled back, the pain was akin to DDay ALMOST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is why I feel lucky to have my children as much as I do. She gets them every other weekend and wednesdays 3-7. If I reconcile, she could possibly strip that away from me. A frightning thought to me. However, like you said, she is not 100% into the R therefore I must move on.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY?
Click to expand...


----------



## GutPunch

weightlifter said:


> I'm built like a basketball player. Tall and thin. My bench is only 245 lbs and it took alot of work to get there. I guarantee I prolly can't get that up after the weight I lost on Dday. 6'-1" 205 lbs to 6'-1" 180 lbs in 3 weeks. Sure I lost some muscle there. It's all good though. Any belly fat I had just evaporated.
> 
> 
> So GP, what do ya bench?


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> GutPunch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY?
> 
> 
> 
> I have read MMSL but not the other. I don't think of myself as a Nice Guy. I pretty much let my wife know what was ok and what was not ok. We had a good happy marriage until she became addicted to drugs. Now, I don't know who she is anymore. Our sex life never waned either until the drugs and especially when she came off the drugs. Depression, I guess
Click to expand...


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> Well I met with the lawyer yesterday and decided to still try and go the uncontested route. So I did not file and the lawyer said she would handle it. She definitely soothed my nerves like an IC.
> 
> Received a text from STBXW to call her after I put the kids to bed. I think about it and say ok since she has to pick the kids up from school on today. She asks me to bring D3 over to her in the morning and follow her to an auto garage too have her car worked on. I agree not any inconvenience and actually saves me time.
> 
> However I mention seeing the lawyer and talk to her about the D. She seems to deflect the subject and says we don't have to talk about that now. She then asks me again if it's what I want. I tell her it is and from then on she acts like she is in total agreement.
> 
> Don't know what I was expecting but it still hurts. How does a woman go from crying and begging me back to ok with divorce a week later? :scratchhead:


Head slap, maybe its because she listens to you.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> GP / old timer.....I have a buddy in panama city beach who rents out condos. If you go....let me know.....could get you reduced rate. Club La Villa.....is on front beach road. was there labor day weekend '97........there he was....the moe howard look alike........donald trump LOL


I'm headed there next weekend. Got a free place then. I'll keep that in mind for the future.


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> Head slap, maybe its because she listens to you.


She cheated, I am looking for some kind of remorse. I get nothing. She looked me in the face and pretty much told me I'm off to bang some dude for the weekend. I know she was just chasing another high but man come on.


----------



## staystrong

chapparal said:


> Head slap, maybe its because she listens to you.


I agree.

Chapparal also said earlier that it doesn't seem clear to either of you what the other wants.

GutPunch, are you continuing with D to secure custody in case your WW is not sincere? But you'd like to R with her afterwards?


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> She cheated, I am looking for some kind of remorse. I get nothing. She looked me in the face and pretty much told me I'm off to bang some dude for the weekend. I know she was just chasing another high but man come on.


Okay, I missed that part. You said she begged and pleaded. But there was no real remorse then.

She sounds like she doesn't know what she wants still, so yeah, your path is clear.


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> I agree.
> 
> Chapparal also said earlier that it doesn't seem clear to either of you what the other wants.
> 
> GutPunch, are you continuing with D to secure custody in case your WW is not sincere? But you'd like to R with her afterwards?



I don't know what I want. I do know my wife is broken. She needs a man to make her happy. 

I know I don't want to lose custody of my kids ever. I love them more than anything. Risk vs reward?


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> She has already had that moment once. I did not think I was seeing the kind of remorse I should be seeing. I told her no when she suggested marriage counseling. I told her she should have recommended that before cheating on me.
> 
> Some people don't like the stresses of work, household, and kids. Our spouses seem to be two that are not capable. They are into "me" time.
> 
> I wish my wife could show the kind of remorse it would take to win me over. I think she is too selfish to sustain it.


Up to this point, you have desperately wanted you family back to gether. Yet you refused MC. That makes no sense at all. You have a communication problem, you get help.


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> Up to this point, you have desperately wanted you family back to gether. Yet you refused MC. That makes no sense at all. You have a communication problem, you get help.



I was just following the 180. She just got thru ripping my heart out again with the false R. She cheated on me then pushes me away. Yea, I was a little angry. Yea, my walls were up. It's a defense mechanism from getting gutpunched a couple times.


----------



## K.C.

GutPunch said:


> Risk vs reward?


Risk? Losing the custody arrangement you have in place.

Reward? Getting someone you just stated is broken and needs fixing but that it seems has no intention of fixing herself.

I've not been posting so much here as I feel you are way past me in this process now but I still read it and that is how it appears.

Would it be fair to say you would only entertain R, post divorce on that basis, especially having been stung once already or are you actually set on it being final but not able to quite settle on that?


----------



## GutPunch

K.C. said:


> Risk?
> 
> Would it be fair to say you would only entertain R, post divorce on that basis, especially having been stung once already or are you actually set on it being final but not able to quite settle on that?


I don't know what the future holds in store for me. However, do I have feelings for her? Yes.

Did she betray me? Yes.

My problem is I want the girl I married back. This new one looks like her but has drug altered brain chemistry. Lose Lose for me


----------



## K.C.

GutPunch said:


> My problem is I want the girl I married back.


She will never be that person again though.

That's not to say she couldn't turn herself around and become a decent caring and loveable person again, but these experiences will have changed her. Even in the best possible outcome that could be hoped for, she wouldn't be back to what she was. Same as you will never be quite the same man she married or betrayed. 

Experiences alter us. Good ones can affect us negatively ( a 'good' and 'happy' marriage leading to complaisance for example) and even very bad ones can alter us for the better (at least I sure hope so - I intend to come out of this a better stronger person for sure); the only certain thing is that change will happen.


----------



## weightlifter

GutPunch said:


> I was just following the 180. She just got thru ripping my heart out again with the false R. She cheated on me then pushes me away. Yea, I was a little angry. Yea, my walls were up. It's a defense mechanism from getting gutpunched a couple times.


Agree with you Gut. Yours is the worst Ive seen here since I started lurking ?Early Nov?? Yes I am sure there ARE worse here but I have not seen them. OTOH some of the stuff they quoted from that doc... cheating site of unrepentent WS... gets into the truly evil category. So yeah, Ive seen worse but not here.

Random idea. D then if she TRULY earns it. Date her. Advice is dont R but for those that insist on R when it looks that bad...


----------



## Chuck71

GP-In other words too much damage is done to just 'return to before DDay'. Your objective is to secure the children and finalize the D. Maybe........just maybe.....sometime down the line, you and Mrs. GP can try a reconnect. At the moment....you do not trust her as far as you could throw her. That kinda sum it up?


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> GP-In other words too much damage is done to just 'return to before DDay'. Your objective is to secure the children and finalize the D. Maybe........just maybe.....sometime down the line, you and Mrs. GP can try a reconnect. At the moment....you do not trust her as far as you could throw her. That kinda sum it up?


Chuck knows the deal. Kind of naive to assume she even wants back. If a beautiful home, two babies, and an attentive husband and father doesn't do it for you. Then,....WTF does.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Chuck knows the deal. Kind of naive to assume she even wants back. If a beautiful home, two babies, and an attentive husband and father doesn't do it for you. Then,....WTF does.


Have I ever told you that when people don't understand how to claim their own happiness, they often blame others for their "suffering?"


----------



## GutPunch

No doubt....I believe it. I saw how miserable my wife became when she came off the painkillers. That misery was all channeled as a disconnect between me and her. All of that suffering was due to our relationship. Bunch a BS.


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> Up to this point, you have desperately wanted you family back to gether. Yet you refused MC. That makes no sense at all. You have a communication problem, you get help.


I was hoping to have a wife that would fight to save her marriage rather than get on dating websites.


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> I was hoping to have a wife that would fight to save her marriage rather than get on dating websites.


Haven't had the chance to finish your thread yet. 

You are an engineer, correct? She is a caregiver?

Expecting a wayward wife to come crawling back is great. It rarely happens. The biggest reason is they don't think of it, they think its too late. 

There are leaders and followers, some people take charge and others do not.

From the posts I have read, the 180 was incorrectly used. It would have been far better to have posted in the infidelity section. Ironically, the affair did not last that long. There are so many variables here, drugs, withdrawal, depression, previous marriage, divorced her parents(why? abuse?).

At least there has been counseling. The problem with that is from the experiences from other posters, there aren't many good counselors.

A big part of this may be that you think like an engineer.

If I were to give you any advice, it would be to contact the counselors at the Marriage Builders website ran by Dr. Harley.

There is a thread in CWI where the BH wanted and tried R, he also refused MC and it has also been a disaster. After 6 mos she just gave up.


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> Haven't had the chance to finish your thread yet.
> 
> You are an engineer, correct? She is a caregiver?
> 
> Expecting a wayward wife to come crawling back is great. It rarely happens. The biggest reason is they don't think of it, they think its too late.
> 
> There are leaders and followers, some people take charge and others do not.
> 
> From the posts I have read, the 180 was incorrectly used. It would have been far better to have posted in the infidelity section. Ironically, the affair did not last that long. There are so many variables here, drugs, withdrawal, depression, previous marriage, divorced her parents(why? abuse?).
> 
> At least there has been counseling. The problem with that is from the experiences from other posters, there aren't many good counselors.
> 
> A big part of this may be that you think like an engineer.
> 
> If I were to give you any advice, it would be to contact the counselors at the Marriage Builders website ran by Dr. Harley.
> 
> There is a thread in CWI where the BH wanted and tried R, he also refused MC and it has also been a disaster. After 6 mos she just gave up.




Help people, Is this true? I should not have used the 180? What should I have done? I can't save a marriage when there is no remorse. Why is th onus on me? UGGGH!


----------



## Chaparral

I am not trying to blame you for anything. The 180, for example is NOT a technique for saving a marriage. It is to allow the betrayed spouse to get over the wayward spouse and move on, not reconcile.

Reconcilliation is a whole other animal. This isn't the coping with infidelity section. Its not the reconcilliation section. Its the dump thier ass section and divorce.

From the first half of this thread I got the impression you would like to save your marriage.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Help people, Is this true? I should not have used the 180? What should I have done? I can't save a marriage when there is no remorse. Why is th onus on me? UGGGH!


While I admire chapparal's eloquence _*"it's the dump their ass section and divorce,"*_ I take some exception to that characterization of our work here.

This is the "connect with yourself" section.

BEFORE you can make any sort of reasonable decision about what you want, you must first acquaint yourself with a stranger you've likely thought little about - you.

Once you do that, the path in front of you becomes clear.

Punch... you're still working.

There is no magic bullet that can make anyone else want to be with you.

BUT.... they're MUCH more likely to want to be with someone who is authentic, masculine, decisive, and cool headed.

Be that man and take note of what happens.

I do some telephone work with a few of you and there IS a juncture at which it makes sense to drop the paperwork on their heads.

IF they are involved with posOM and you wish to wait for the inevitable crash and burn, you can. You do the 180, improve yourself, quit doing the things that cause you pain (to please others), and observe. In other words, become the interesting well-rounded man that got subsumed in "the relationship"

You attracted her once.

It may work again.

Of course, her attraction to you "may" have been for some reason other than your fantastically hard pecker. In other words, women sometimes marry for security, companionship, to have a family, whatever.

So, you don't know.

But, if you observe, you can pretty easily figure out what to do.

AND, I would say this, once posOM is gone and she starts interviewing for posOM2, there is no earthly reason to wait around. The affair fog was broken and she's merely looking for another fix.

She needs papers at that point.


----------



## GutPunch

Chapp my brain was in a tug of war. Emotionally I had not detached but logically I knew I had to let her go. I still have not detached. I am slowly getting stronger. Each day I see her for what she is. A liar and a cheater. I did employ the 180 to help detach. It just doesn't happen overnight. 

However, she has shown very little interest in R. I just need to get a Divorce, move on and get over it. Easier said than done. Takes time.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Chapp my brain was in a tug of war. Emotionally I had not detached but logically I knew I had to let her go. I still have not detached. I am slowly getting stronger. Each day I see her for what she is. A liar and a cheater. I did employ the 180 to help detach. It just doesn't happen overnight.
> 
> However, she has shown very little interest in R. I just need to get a Divorce, move on and get over it. Easier said than done. Takes time.


Punch,

Look - your common sense is telling you what it meant that she's out on dating sites.

She's looking for posOM2.

That means you need to move on.

Still not impossible, but it's the next move.

Papers make it real. It's emotional communication. In her hands, she'll see them and say, "This is the end"

It's a language she understands.

Play time is over.


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> Chapp my brain was in a tug of war. Emotionally I had not detached but logically I knew I had to let her go. I still have not detached. I am slowly getting stronger. Each day I see her for what she is. A liar and a cheater. I did employ the 180 to help detach. It just doesn't happen overnight. * Thats fine, as long as you know the 180 will speed up a divorce not bring about a reconcilliation*
> 
> However, she has shown very little interest in R. * Have not seen the details where and how much you have discussed it. She wanted MC and you refused, no?*I just need to get a Divorce, move on and get over it. Easier said than done. Takes time.


Good luck and prayers for you all.

I sincerely apollogize for the "dump their ass remark".


----------



## Conrad

chapparal said:


> Good luck and prayers for you all.
> 
> I sincerely apollogize for the "dump their ass remark".


It was truly funny.


----------



## Chaparral

Conrad said:


> Punch,
> 
> Look - your common sense is telling you what it meant that she's out on dating sites.
> 
> She's looking for posOM2.
> 
> That means you need to move on.
> 
> Still not impossible, but it's the next move.
> 
> Papers make it real. It's emotional communication. In her hands, she'll see them and say, "This is the end"
> 
> It's a language she understands.
> 
> Play time is over.


I know I am probably wrong, but having read OP's posts, I see nowhere that he has let his wife know he wants to save the marriage. If I did what she did, I would assume my wife never wanted to see me again after kicking me out. Some people will come slinging snot begging to come back. For every one of those there is another person who just tucks their tail and gives up thinking they are not worthy. And then there are the multitudes between those extremes.

I find it extremely odd she wanted to reconcile and did an about face. Are there more details? 

Why were you so adamant against MC GutPunch?


----------



## Conrad

chapparal said:


> I know I am probably wrong, but having read OP's posts, I see nowhere that he has let his wife know he wants to save the marriage. If I did what she did, I would assume my wife never wanted to see me again after kicking me out. Some people will come slinging snot begging to come back. For every one of those there is another person who just tucks their tail and gives up thinking they are not worthy. And then there are the multitudes between those extremes.
> 
> I find it extremely odd she wanted to reconcile and did an about face. Are there more details.
> 
> Why were you so adamant agaist MC Gut punch?


Didn't let her know?

They spent the good part of a weekend banging each other's brains out, then she withdrew and told him it wasn't going to work.

Did you miss that part?


----------



## Chaparral

Conrad said:


> Didn't let her know?
> 
> They spent the good part of a weekend banging each other's brains out, then she withdrew and told him it wasn't going to work.
> 
> Did you miss that part?


Thats what I don't understand. Why would she do that? Did GP say something? Did he read MMSLP before that? I can see it not working out , but that quickly? Bad breath?


----------



## Chaparral

She wanted to come back, why did she change her mind so quickly?

Am I right, she still hasn't signed the papers?


----------



## Conrad

chapparal said:


> Thats what I don't understand. Why would she do that? Did GP say something? Did he read MMSLP before that? I can see it not working out , but that quickly? Bad breath?


She has this issue with follow-through.


----------



## GutPunch

No the papers are not signed. I don't know why she did what she did. She asked me last night how I was doing. I said fine. Part of me still thinks she needs OM2 so she can feel the high again.

Chapp could be right and she took me for my word. How many WS just quit after the first no?

I don't even know if I want her back? 

I did act extremely needy when she attempted the R. You know the Do you love me texts?

My biggest regret was sleeping with her so easily. Should have made her jump thru some hoops first. Would have kept my emotions in check and also seen if it was true remorse or not.


----------



## familyfirst09

Try not to dwell on the past hun, you can't change it right?
And of course you don't know, you're in limbo and will be for a while. I'm there with you. 
What are you doing for YOU? Have you read co-dependent no more yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Try not to dwell on the past hun, you can't change it right?
> And of course you don't know, you're in limbo and will be for a while. I'm there with you.
> What are you doing for YOU? Have you read co-dependent no more yet?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not yet, been a busy day on my thread. Got me worked up a little. Questioning myself. Chapp brought up some interesting points.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> No the papers are not signed. I don't know why she did what she did. She asked me last night how I was doing. I said fine. Part of me still thinks she needs OM2 so she can feel the high again.
> 
> Chapp could be right and she took me for my word. How many WS just quit after the first no?
> 
> I don't even know if I want her back?
> 
> I did act extremely needy when she attempted the R. You know the Do you love me texts?
> 
> My biggest regret was sleeping with her so easily. Should have made her jump thru some hoops first. Would have kept my emotions in check and also seen if it was true remorse or not.


I heard you were a cheap piece of ass.


----------



## K.C.

He may have a point on some of it. Maybe if the R had been handled differently this or you did this that instead... You could do that all night and be none the wiser.

All that matters right now are YOU going to be ok. Pretty damn sure that will be yes. If not now some day in the not too distant future.

Why should YOU have jumped through hoops to fix HER mistakes?

You do whats right for you my friend. The past cannot be changed. The future will be what it is. Live in the now as much as you can.

Ler her own her own mistakes. Stop trying to carry that for her.


----------



## familyfirst09

What are you questioning yourself about. And to answer your question: how many WS give up after one "no"? None if they are remorseful and actually regret what they did. Think about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

K.C. said:


> He may have a point on some of it. Maybe if the R had been handled differently this or you did this that instead... You could do that all night and be none the wiser.
> 
> All that matters right now are YOU going to be ok. Pretty damn sure that will be yes. If not now some day in the not too distant future.
> 
> Why should YOU have jumped through hoops to fix HER mistakes?
> 
> You do whats right for you my friend. The past cannot be changed. The future will be what it is. Live in the now as much as you can.
> 
> Ler her own her own mistakes. Stop trying to carry that for her.


KC,

Is that you?


----------



## K.C.

Hah yeah its me.

I know what your thinking Conrad lol.

I know I'm a fine one to talk with what I am doing re her. You have to remember what caused my seperation though.

Minus the cheating.. I could be the "bad" guy in a lot of the threads you see on TAM. Thats why I know mine is salvageable IF she lets it be. We talk about the betrayed owning their own issues and not carrying the POSX burdens.. Although I didnt cheat I did let Mrs.C carry my load for too long. If Mrs C was here second guessing herself I have no doubt I would have a dolly/angel esque nickname..

Only difference is I am owning my mistakes. If Mrs.C was here instead you would be telling her to drop my loafd and leave it to me asap while she focussed on hers.


----------



## weightlifter

GutPunch said:


> I'm built like a basketball player. Tall and thin. My bench is only 245 lbs and it took alot of work to get there. I guarantee I prolly can't get that up after the weight I lost on Dday. 6'-1" 205 lbs to 6'-1" 180 lbs in 3 weeks. Sure I lost some muscle there. It's all good though. Any belly fat I had just evaporated.


Back in the day I could rep 315. At the beginning of college I weighed 125 lbs soaking wet and had a hard time at 135 repped once. By Sr year I could rep 315 about 8 times and do 345 once.

LOL if sad skinny me can do it basketball player you can do it. Cant do it now (Finances prevent gym membership and this dump i rent has no space) But I wanna get back to it. Benching was my fave. Shrugs were next.

The good news is I had one of those epiphany moments about the beginning of Nov. Went to the doc for ear infection and they weighed me. 218 lbs closing in on 220. I cut my soft drink consumption by about 75% and am down to.... I just decided to. Now 191! and still dropping slowly. I have not weighed this little since well the year number started in 1. (Like about 1998 Ill guess)

LOL sorry for the hijack. Er Sleeping with the stbxw is prolly better than Mr Hand??? OH NM. 2 bad choices


----------



## zillard

weightlifter said:


> Where is your number one place you get these contacts? Details may well be useful to others.


For women and men, locally owned bar & grill combos and cafes. This is where your neighbors stop off for a burger, a beer or a coffee.


----------



## staystrong

chapparal said:


> Haven't had the chance to finish your thread yet.
> 
> You are an engineer, correct? She is a caregiver?
> 
> Expecting a wayward wife to come crawling back is great. It rarely happens. The biggest reason is they don't think of it, they think its too late.
> 
> There are leaders and followers, some people take charge and others do not.
> 
> From the posts I have read, the 180 was incorrectly used. It would have been far better to have posted in the infidelity section. Ironically, the affair did not last that long. There are so many variables here, drugs, withdrawal, depression, previous marriage, divorced her parents(why? abuse?).
> 
> At least there has been counseling. The problem with that is from the experiences from other posters, there aren't many good counselors.
> 
> A big part of this may be that you think like an engineer.
> 
> If I were to give you any advice, it would be to contact the counselors at the Marriage Builders website ran by Dr. Harley.
> 
> There is a thread in CWI where the BH wanted and tried R, he also refused MC and it has also been a disaster. After 6 mos she just gave up.


I know I don't have much authority on the subject, but I think this post has a lot of merit. I read all of the ones following this and I get what Conrad is saying, but I also like what Chap is saying here.

It's as if you GP are holding onto the 180 like it's the sacred text. Sleeping with your wife is a clear violation of the 180 so then what is it you are really trying to accomplish?

She had sex with you so that's obviously a good sign. She's not repulsed by you. From what I've read, the true WAW is typically done, done, oh so done. If anything, you've become repulsed by her but it's not to the point you couldn't work through it. What you require - and you've repeated it - is remorse. But you continue to judge her and it probably comes through in your communications with her. Judging her will push her away. She's not clearheaded enough yet to accept the judgement, even if it is warranted.

In her head, she may still feel justified by her actions. She may feel she learned something about herself or what's missing in her marriage. Therefore, she doesn't feel real remorse. Not yet. But she's frightened, because she doesn't know how to integrate what she has experienced. She's lost. She's not able to be an integrated person until she's reconciled with herself what she has done. How can she approach you with remorse until she's had a breakthrough? The drugs have changed her. It's changed her conception of right and wrong. She needs her core values back. 

Maybe others are correct when they say the divorce papers may shock her into understanding, but I wonder at this point (a lot of time has passed since DDay) it might just tell her you are truly done with her.. which you are not.

She needs to feel she can be "good" again first. She's not clear enough in her head to tally up the benefits (home, family, financial stability, etc.). Like Chapparal said, you are thinking like an engineer, she is not.

I like Dr. Harley's approach as well, and if you want to help your wife get back on the path, maybe you should consider contacting the MB resource Chap mentioned. The onus is on her, though.. you can only lead her to water.


----------



## devastated3343

This thread is starting to move in a few directions, but it's the same questions everyone was asking weeks and months ago. 

GP, what do YOU want. You have to choose whether or not you want to be with this person, whether a healthy, stable, fulfilling relationship is possible. You have to know this before you can understand her choices. If you separate the emotion of the breakup, the violent change, and reduce your situation to a rational choice, do you want to be with this person?

And keep in mind that if you're hoping that getting back together will change her into the person you want her to be, you're doomed to failure. 

Like any good engineer, you have to identify the problem before you can find the solution. Is this the person you want to spend your one and only life with?

And if it helps, imagine I'm describing a relationship between me and a person who acts just like your wife, who has all the same faults and flaws, and who has done the things to me that yours has done to you. Imagine I've written page after page describing everything that's happened, and then imagine what you'd tell me as a friend. I don't know if that will help, but sometimes separating the emotion from the rational can give clarity.


----------



## Chuck71

Things will never be the same...D3343 summarized that. You can have a new beginning. But here is the elephant in the room.....to start over means a clean slate. It may work for a month but the old saying is 'I forgive but not forget'.

To consider a healthy 2nd run....you have to be baptized from every emotion. Good luck on that. Run data searches on couples trying this....not promising. If the thought continues to occupy the mind....a re-run is not a wise idea at the time.


----------



## GutPunch

devastated3343 said:


> This thread is starting to move in a few directions, but it's the same questions everyone was asking weeks and months ago.
> 
> GP, what do YOU want. You have to choose whether or not you want to be with this person, whether a healthy, stable, fulfilling relationship is possible. You have to know this before you can understand her choices. If you separate the emotion of the breakup, the violent change, and reduce your situation to a rational choice, do you want to be with this person?
> 
> And keep in mind that if you're hoping that getting back together will change her into the person you want her to be, you're doomed to failure.
> 
> Like any good engineer, you have to identify the problem before you can find the solution. Is this the person you want to spend your one and only life with?
> 
> And if it helps, imagine I'm describing a relationship between me and a person who acts just like your wife, who has all the same faults and flaws, and who has done the things to me that yours has done to you. Imagine I've written page after page describing everything that's happened, and then imagine what you'd tell me as a friend. I don't know if that will help, but sometimes separating the emotion from the rational can give clarity.


I can't separate the emotions out. That's my number one problem. I know what I'd tell you do. I would tell you to drop her like a load of bricks.


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> I know I don't have much authority on the subject, but I think this post has a lot of merit. I read all of the ones following this and I get what Conrad is saying, but I also like what Chap is saying here.
> 
> It's as if you GP are holding onto the 180 like it's the sacred text. Sleeping with your wife is a clear violation of the 180 so then what is it you are really trying to accomplish?
> 
> 
> Detachment and my emotional well being. I have children so the 180 is not a sacred text. Spent an hour with her yesterday at baseball practice yesterday. Chatted a little the whole time. She told she had her clean one year celebration and I told her how proud I was of her and the children too. I try to be cool calm and dispassionate around her.
> 
> 
> She had sex with you so that's obviously a good sign. She's not repulsed by you. From what I've read, the true WAW is typically done, done, oh so done. If anything, you've become repulsed by her but it's not to the point you couldn't work through it. What you require - and you've repeated it - is remorse. But you continue to judge her and it probably comes through in your communications with her. Judging her will push her away. She's not clearheaded enough yet to accept the judgement, even if it is warranted.
> 
> I don't think this is accurate. I have been aloof and nonjudgemental. I saw her yesterday and she still holds my emotions. Who gets all dolled up for baseball practice? Ugggh! Still attracted too her for some reason.
> 
> In her head, she may still feel justified by her actions. She may feel she learned something about herself or what's missing in her marriage. Therefore, she doesn't feel real remorse. Not yet. But she's frightened, because she doesn't know how to integrate what she has experienced. She's lost. She's not able to be an integrated person until she's reconciled with herself what she has done. How can she approach you with remorse until she's had a breakthrough? The drugs have changed her. It's changed her conception of right and wrong. She needs her core values back.
> 
> Can't help her there.
> 
> 
> Maybe others are correct when they say the divorce papers may shock her into understanding, but I wonder at this point (a lot of time has passed since DDay) it might just tell her you are truly done with her.. which you are not.
> 
> Are you really ever. The divorce is to protect my interests more than anything.
> 
> She needs to feel she can be "good" again first. She's not clear enough in her head to tally up the benefits (home, family, financial stability, etc.). Like Chapparal said, you are thinking like an engineer, she is not.
> 
> Do you mean I am thinking logically and her emotionally?
> 
> I like Dr. Harley's approach as well, and if you want to help your wife get back on the path, maybe you should consider contacting the MB resource Chap mentioned. The onus is on her, though.. you can only lead her to water.


Again I would love it if my wife was like CSS or rookie4's wife but alas she is not. She is trolling the internet right now for another man. What I want isn't even relevant.


----------



## Chuck71

Eh...you put your kids before you
Chick magnet
mom with two kids......run with skid marks
guy with two kids......stability 101


----------



## zillard

mom with kids but dad has them... scream and run with skid marks - never looking back.


----------



## staystrong

Chit-chat for an hour doesn't sound very 180 to me. Seems like it will just hurt you more, seeing as you are still attracted to her and she "holds your emotions". Your call, though. I just remind you that you slept with her and then regretted doing it so easily.


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Chit-chat for an hour doesn't sound very 180 to me. Seems like it will just hurt you more, seeing as you are still attracted to her and she "holds your emotions". Your call, though. I just remind you that you slept with her and then regretted doing it so easily.


Exactly...The 180 is hard with kids. I don't call or text her unless about the kids. I don't talk relationship. I try to stay cool calm and dispassionate. Hurts a little but life goes on. I got kids to worry about.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Exactly...The 180 is hard with kids. I don't call or text her unless about the kids. I don't talk relationship. I try to stay cool calm and dispassionate. Hurts a little but life goes on. I got kids to worry about.


Yes. Remaining friendly when the kids are around is more important. But you can easily distract yourself if you like. Divert the convo back to "look what DS just did!"


----------



## familyfirst09

I try that myself..when H is around, no talk at all unless about D. He sucks at actually asking about D but I try my best to tell him things, and she does as well. He talks more about himself and I just kinda sit there, with the "uh-huh" nod.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

I'm glad you're on fairly good speaking terms with your wife. I can tell you though that it is hard when relationships are strained. My wife and I don't even talk on the phone anymore, only email. My kids know their parents don't like each other, and I feel awful about that. Kids are resilient but I know it has to be damaging to their psyche.


----------



## GutPunch

I think I am past the 180 stuff. If she wants to talk, I talk. I don't open up like I used to. Cool Calm Dispassionate. Thats my motto. Hurts a little but it is so infrequent no need to be an a$$. I have detached enough to where I can communicate with her.


----------



## staystrong

That's good. That's real progress.

It's a lot easier when there's no OM on the scene.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I think I am past the 180 stuff. If she wants to talk, I talk. I don't open up like I used to. Cool Calm Dispassionate. Thats my motto. Hurts a little but it is so infrequent no need to be an a$$. I have detached enough to where I can communicate with her.


Even during 180 you should never be an a$$.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> Even during 180 you should never be an a$$.


When someone calls you three times and you don't call them back. That's being an A$$.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> When someone calls you three times and you don't call them back. That's being an A$$.


Not if you said, "don't call me"


----------



## BFGuru

Chuck71 said:


> Eh...you put your kids before you
> Chick magnet
> mom with two kids......run with skid marks
> guy with two kids......stability 101


Well this just increases my hope for finding a date :rofl:


----------



## staystrong

zillard said:


> Even during 180 you should never be an a$$.


Some of us have anger issues now.


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Some of us have anger issues now.


LOL...I thought you got those out!


----------



## zillard

staystrong said:


> Some of us have anger issues now.


Absolutely. I'm in the processes of learning how to deal with my anger in a healthy way. 

When I'm an a$$ it just comes back around eventually and bites me in mine. Then it repeats. The cycle of anger.


----------



## ReGroup

I talk and I act pleasant - to the point where it bothers Mrs. ReGroup.

I definitely do not disclose what I am feeling or at least... I don't try to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

Sharing your feelings is great. If you want a relationship.

If you don't, just make sure you get them out somehow. Don't bottle.


----------



## Bullwinkle

SS

With you on the anger issues right now. Can't see or focus on much of anything except blind rage.


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> LOL...I thought you got those out!


It's true, I did get a lot out recently. But I carried it around for a long time. Some things just stick in your head for a while. Her moving OM into our home with our kids after I left? How could they be so stupid?


----------



## staystrong

zillard said:


> Sharing your feelings is great. If you want a relationship.
> 
> If you don't, just make sure you get them out somehow. Don't bottle.



So true.

GutPunch, are you close to any of her family? Sorry, I don't recall from the thread.


----------



## zillard

Hold it in > Build Up Phase > Blow Up > Feel Guilty/Embarrassed > Honeymoon/Nice Phase > Hold it in

Best place to break the cycle is in between Hold it in and Build up.


----------



## staystrong

Bullwinkle said:


> SS
> 
> With you on the anger issues right now. Can't see or focus on much of anything except blind rage.


I tell you, I really got a lot out of my system. I don't advocate violence in most cases but it did feel good to pound that weasel. Thankfully it didn't escalate, and thankfully there have been no legal repercussions thus far.

The sad thing is that he may very well see himself as a white knight. I don't know the man he is, but most likley he will be my children's stepfather. It's too creepy.. I have to stop thinking about it. More power to you dad's who have primary custody.


----------



## ReGroup

Don't jump ahead of yourself SS. Let things play out. Be patient.


----------



## staystrong

ReGroup said:


> Don't jump ahead of yourself SS. Let things play out. Be patient.


It's over, ReGroup. She's with him now, and for a long time I presume.


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> So true.
> 
> GutPunch, are you close to any of her family? Sorry, I don't recall from the thread.


I am not. We live in another city.


----------



## Chaparral

Gp , have you and your wife sat down with a third party and talked about what you both want , why you both are doing what you are doing.

I get the feeling you are both driving off a cliff with youreyes closed. 

Your wife has been damaged but appears salvageable.
You seem like your hurt has made you inflexible to the point that your pride comes before your family.

I know intelligent people that have fell into the painkiller trap. I don't even blame them that much because of what they have been through.

As a Christian my number one responsibility is my wife.Children second. 

Although you now have the kids agreat majority of the time, I will be surprised if that is always the case. After a while I feel certain she will want to revisit this issue. Perhaps sooner than later. In other words, your kids, specifically your daughter will have a step dad. Are you confident that you have done everything in your power to keep your kids safe?


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> Again I would love it if my wife was like CSS or rookie4's wife but alas she is not. She is trolling the internet right now for another man. What I want isn't even relevant.


Have you asked her out? Have you tried romancing her? Did you romance/date her throughout your marriage?

I am not trying to bug you, but from reading your posts, I don't see where you are done with the marriage.


----------



## old timer

Gut - aren't there some attractive single ladies at the ball park? 

That's where I'd be concentrating my attention.


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> Have you asked her out? Have you tried romancing her? Did you romance/date her throughout your marriage?
> 
> I am not trying to bug you, but from reading your posts, I don't see where you are done with the marriage.



I fully understand where you are coming from. My pride may be hindering a reconnection. Is it foolish pride or is it being fair to myself. Why do I have to wine and dine a woman who went outside the marriage? Do I not deserve better. Why do I have to do the heavy lifting? 

The marriage was finished when she gave herself before God to another man. Do I still have an emotional bond that I can't seem to shake? Yes! I dedicated 13 years to her and she gave two beautiful children. 

Did I hire a babysitter as much as I should have. Probably not. Why is the burden on me. I was already toting my load of rocks and half of hers. Time for me to let her tote her own rocks.

She cheated, if she doesn't want a D then she should let me know that. I am nothing but cordial and friendly to her. Even told her how proud I was of her for being clean one year. 

TBH...I don't know if I could get over the "Infidelity" issue. I am afraid it would eat at me for the rest of my life.


----------



## Chaparral

That's cool, there is nothing wrong with divorcing a cheater. I was just confused about what you wanted.


----------



## Chaparral

At this point, why do you care she is looking at dating websites. She as well as you, needs to move on.


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> That's cool, there is nothing wrong with divorcing a cheater. I was just confused about what you wanted.


So am I. My heart and head are in a tug of war of monumental proportions. As long as she doesn't make an effort then my problem is solved.


----------



## Chuck71

My ex wants me to take her out
I would not take her to a pig sale
really? it's funny....a marriage is duality
cheating S is singular
i'm not an english major
but the nouns do not match
like many....my cards were on the table
if she could not read them, sue the school board
but....who am i to say....i can be a loving romantic
or a cold blooded sob
they pick their hand
not you

as for anger
it can be used as a tool
1988 surgery
yeah let it burn
helped me get two degrees, third in wings
but WTF do i know?


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> At this point, why do you care she is looking at dating websites. She as well as you, needs to move on.


Because I do.


----------



## Chuck71

love does not die overnight
i still love mine, always will
but she owns her own issues
i checked out and took route 66


----------



## staystrong

Do you still see her as your equal?


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Do you still see her as your equal?


She sure isn't my equal morally.


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

Gut I feel for you. Some moral compasses are just broken. I'm seeing if my W's is broken too. Today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> Because I do.


Youde be a selfish prick if you didn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> I fully understand where you are coming from. My pride may be hindering a reconnection. Is it foolish pride or is it being fair to myself. Why do I have to wine and dine a woman who went outside the marriage? Do I not deserve better. Why do I have to do the heavy lifting?
> 
> The marriage was finished when she gave herself before God to another man. Do I still have an emotional bond that I can't seem to shake? Yes! I dedicated 13 years to her and she gave two beautiful children.
> 
> Did I hire a babysitter as much as I should have. Probably not. Why is the burden on me. I was already toting my load of rocks and half of hers. Time for me to let her tote her own rocks.
> 
> She cheated, if she doesn't want a D then she should let me know that. I am nothing but cordial and friendly to her. Even told her how proud I was of her for being clean one year.
> 
> TBH...I don't know if I could get over the "Infidelity" issue. I am afraid it would eat at me for the rest of my life.


Well said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Hurt Odyssey_DK HL said:


> Gut I feel for you. Some moral compasses are just broken. I'm seeing if my W's is broken too. Today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE
> 
> I wish you luck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> Because I do.


Then ask her out with no relationship talk.

I don't recommend this lightly. But in this case, I could give her some slack because of her pain, drug ajd thus depression.
ITs better to risk a bit more distress than have to wonder your whole life if you could have done better by your family. Just don't rush things.


----------



## familyfirst09

Before you can consider what Chap is saying, you have to first ask yourself is it worth the rejection if she says no. Maybe there's a better way of going about it? When you were in false R, she backed off saying she had to work on herself more. Maybe ask her how she is making out with that?
And the other thing you have to ask is whether YOU are ready emotionally to R. I don't think you are.... The thing about putting your pride before your family stings a bit for me because that is what H has done. He even said this just 2-3 weeks ago. He's letting his pride and his ego interfere with his family. BUT I also know I would not be ready for R if the opportunity presented itself (not going to happen but just a realization that I have lots of work to do regardless of him). 

So...knowing where you are at right now in your head, how you felt and how you acted during false R, are you ready to try it all over again??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Before you can consider what
> 
> 
> So...knowing where you are at right now in your head, how you felt and how you acted during false R, are you ready to try it all over again??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I don't know if my nerves could take it. I still think she needs to reach out to me. I am detached enough to where I think I can talk to her. I just stay away from anything "Relationship". I am to the point where I am not sure what I want anymore. I guess that's a normal process for the BS. Takes some longer than others. LOL


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hey, GP, for whatever it's worth, I really understand about the pride thing. And the infidelity thing. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see myself EVER being able to get past it. 

Some people are more forgiving, I guess.


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> I don't know if my nerves could take it. I still think she needs to reach out to me. I am detached enough to where I think I can talk to her. I just stay away from anything "Relationship". I am to the point where I am not sure what I want anymore. I guess that's a normal process for the BS. Takes some longer than others. LOL


Well its a daily struggle that's for sure. But only you know what you NEED. What is it that you need? Can she provide that for you at this time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Well its a daily struggle that's for sure. But only you know what you NEED. What is it that you need? Can she provide that for you at this time?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am sure she could provide some of it. She did for 10 years. Then there is the trust thing and it's a big one.


----------



## warlock07

chapparal said:


> Then ask her out with no relationship talk.
> 
> I don't recommend this lightly. But in this case, I could give her some slack because of her pain, drug ajd thus depression.
> ITs better to risk a bit more distress than have to wonder your whole life if you could have done better by your family. Just don't rush things.





> Oct 12 I discover they are to meet and tell her to stop and do the right thing for her kids sake. She leaves with toddler screaming "Don't go Mommy" ...and I go into shock!


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> I am sure she could provide some of it. She did for 10 years. Then there is the trust thing and it's a big one.


With some people, when trust is broken, it can never be prepared. Are you one of those people?

"The one way you know if you can trust some one is to trust them"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> With some people, when trust is broken, it can never be prepared. Are you one of those people?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I Don't Know. Possibly. How about you?


----------



## GutPunch

My best friend told me to think about that night anytime I thought about Reconciling. He told me he could feel the hurt through the telephone.


----------



## warlock07

I read the thread way too late to make a comment but the moment she wanted to R, you were ready to take her back even before she completed the sentence. Maybe because I am not involved emotionally but I could see it clearly that it was bad move and would end up in disaster( which it eventually did but Much faster than I expected though).

maybe read your posts, now that you are more than a month after the incident... Just notice what you are doing


----------



## GutPunch

warlock07 said:


> I read the thread way too late to make a comment but the moment she wanted to R, you were ready to take her back even before she completed the sentence. Maybe because I am not involved emotionally but I could see it clearly that it was bad move and would end up in disaster( which it eventually did but Much faster than I expected though).
> 
> maybe read your posts, now that you are more than a month after the incident... Just notice what you are doing



You are spot on. I caved way to easily. I exuded neediness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> My best friend told me to think about that night anytime I thought about Reconciling. He told me he could feel the hurt through the telephone.


It's a good thing to keep at the forefront of the mind, whenever you start to get too "comfortable" with how you think about her. She did a truly awful thing that day. Did she ever apologize for it?

My new thing is to remind myself that STBXW had sex with POSOM in our home. They violated our private space, our home where our children are.


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> You are spot on. I caved way to easily. I exuded neediness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you think that's the reason it didn't work? Because she didn't have to work at it?

Or are you simply regretful that you didn't protect your emotions by setting up defenses against a false R?


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Do you think that's the reason it didn't work? Because she didn't have to work at it?
> 
> Or are you simply regretful that you didn't protect your emotions by setting up defenses against a false R?



In my opinion, both statements are true.


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Quote:
> Oct 12 I discover they are to meet and tell her to stop and do the right thing for her kids sake. She leaves with toddler screaming "Don't go Mommy" ...and I go into shock!


I understand this but I am in deep water over this one. 

Drug withdrawal leading to depression, seems to me to be a different case. The only thing I know about long lasting depression is that it is an illness. I don't believe in many cases the sufferer will/can make rational decisions.

I am curious as to how much GP was able to empathize and support his wife during this time. Does he understand depression and its ramifications.

My biggest brush with a similar problem ws with a beautiful woman in my church with bipolar problems. When I first met her she was a real beauty, energetic to a fault and great to be around. I ran into her and her daughter at a dept store one day and thought she would never stop talking. She also worked a lot of extra time at the school she taught at taking time away from her family.

When she went into a depressive stage(lasted years), she became an entirely withdrawn, sad woman that I could barely recognize mentally and physically. Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide comes to mind as to how different the two side of her were.

Now I am not suggesting GP wasn't there for her. I don't know if she irrationally blamed her for her problems. But, if the unfaithfulness was the result of a disease, whatever the cause, I think a spouse has more responsibility to care for their mate.

I know that we men are defficient in understanding how these things work. I am constantly bewildered by my wife thinking I can read her mind.

The glaring point that sticks out in this thread and can'tthinkstraights thread, is the husband's absolute refusal to go to Marriage counseling. This is just throwing it in their face that all the problems are hers and the husband is the squeaky clean, example of perfection. And how hard is MC going to be? Obviously, the refusal to go is actually just an oppurtunity to send their wife a message, no matter how much they protest that they want to work on the marriage. 

I am not at all fond of reconcilliation in most cases, but there are always exceptions, especially when your kids are going to end up living with another man at some point. Abuse by step parents isn't rare or just a stereotype actually it is very common.


----------



## Chaparral

For every person that gets down on their knees and begs to come back to the marriage there is one that doesn't have the strength/confidence to do that. Then there are others who are to proud/stubborn and would rather go down with the ship. A person can have too much strength of will or maybe its really inferriority rearing its head.


----------



## staystrong

chapparal said:


> I understand this but I am in deep water over this one.
> 
> Drug withdrawal leading to depression, seems to me to be a different case. The only thing I know about long lasting depression is that it is an illness. I don't believe in many cases the sufferer will/can make rational decisions.
> 
> I am curious as to how much GP was able to empathize and support his wife during this time. Does he understand depression and its ramifications.
> 
> My biggest brush with a similar problem ws with a beautiful woman in my church with bipolar problems. When I first met her she was a real beauty, energetic to a fault and great to be around. I ran into her and her daughter at a dept store one day and thought she would never stop talking. She also worked a lot of extra time at the school she taught at taking time away from her family.
> 
> When she went into a depressive stage(lasted years), she became an entirely withdrawn, sad woman that I could barely recognize mentally and physically. Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide comes to mind as to how different the two side of her were.
> 
> Now I am not suggesting GP wasn't there for her. I don't know if she irrationally blamed her for her problems. But, if the unfaithfulness was the result of a disease, whatever the cause, I think a spouse has more responsibility to care for their mate.
> 
> I know that we men are defficient in understanding how these things work. I am constantly bewildered by my wife thinking I can read her mind.
> 
> The glaring point that sticks out in this thread and can'tthinkstraights thread, is the husband's absolute refusal to go to Marriage counseling. This is just throwing it in their face that all the problems are hers and the husband is the squeaky clean, example of perfection. And how hard is MC going to be? Obviously, the refusal to go is actually just an oppurtunity to send their wife a message, no matter how much they protest that they want to work on the marriage.
> 
> I am not at all fond of reconcilliation in most cases, but there are always exceptions, especially when your kids are going to end up living with another man at some point. Abuse by step parents isn't rare or just a stereotype actually it is very common.


Again, good insight Chapparal.

GP, did Mrs. GP ever bring up MC? I think I remember you saying 
MC's can makes things worse more often than not, and that's why you weren't interested. I now ask "How much worse could it get?". Do you think the time has passed for you to bring it up, i.e. you should have brought it up during that brief R period?


----------



## GutPunch

Excellent post Chapparal. I do believe the drug use, depression, and really deep depression after quitting the drugs played an enormous role in her decision making. My wife's infidelity was never even a concern my entire marriage. She didn't flirt, rarely ever a GNO. We had a good happy marriage. 

When she tried to reconcile, I agreed to see marriage counseling. She cried that we couldn't throw 13 years away without trying. Here's the kicker, six days later (sex 3 times and me doing the opposite of MMSLP)she says it's not fair to me and she doesn't want to use me as a crutch to her recovery. I am devastated again. I believe my wanting to work things out pushed her away. Three days later when she returns the kids to me after a visit she casually mentions the marriage counseling thing again. This time I declined and said I have got to move forward. That's that. Mid January.

So now I really just look and watch her actions. I am cordial and friendly and go out of my way for her when the CHILDREN are involved. Her actions, flaking on visitation, no reaching out to me at all out even when I compliment, online dating profile; show me that she just isn't willing to do the hard work necessary or that she is even interested in reconciling at all. 

I almost think the opiates have made her a little bipolar. I am at a loss as to what I can do. I don't think asking her on a date is the answer. I did this once and got hurt again during the R. I do admit that she and I are both stubbon as mules. 

My codependency for her is as strong as ever and I am sure you can feel my pain through my words. However, how much punishment can I take? Why can't she try? The online dating profile really hurts. Tells me she doesn't want to try. Tells me she is still searching for that "high".


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> I Don't Know. Possibly. How about you?


I am not. I am a very trusting person, probably too much. I know I am going to struggle with trusting anyone that comes into my life now because of what has happened, not only with STBX (his new name) but with the girlfriends I had as well. But I strongly believe that trust can be re-built if both people are willing. IF there is remorse and a desire from the other person to work hard to re-build that trust. I would want someone to do that for me so I would give another person the same respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

staystrong said:


> It's a good thing to keep at the forefront of the mind, whenever you start to get too "comfortable" with how you think about her. She did a truly awful thing that day. Did she ever apologize for it?
> 
> My new thing is to remind myself that STBXW had sex with POSOM in our home. They violated our private space, our home where our children are.


Now this may seem kind of gross, but someone on TAM told me the next time I get a "craving" to reach out to STBX, to just picture where his lips have been, his hands, his ****, and possibly are right at this very moment....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> Excellent post Chapparal. I do believe the drug use, depression, and really deep depression after quitting the drugs played an enormous role in her decision making. My wife's infidelity was never even a concern my entire marriage. She didn't flirt, rarely ever a GNO. We had a good happy marriage.
> 
> When she tried to reconcile, I agreed to see marriage counseling. She cried that we couldn't throw 13 years away without trying. Here's the kicker, six days later (sex 3 times and me doing the opposite of MMSLP)she says it's not fair to me and she doesn't want to use me as a crutch to her recovery. I am devastated again. I believe my wanting to work things out pushed her away. Three days later when she returns the kids to me after a visit she casually mentions the marriage counseling thing again. This time I declined and said I have got to move forward. That's that. Mid January.
> 
> So now I really just look and watch her actions. I am cordial and friendly and go out of my way for her when the CHILDREN are involved. Her actions, flaking on visitation, no reaching out to me at all out even when I compliment, online dating profile; show me that she just isn't willing to do the hard work necessary or that she is even interested in reconciling at all.
> 
> I almost think the opiates have made her a little bipolar. I am at a loss as to what I can do. I don't think asking her on a date is the answer. I did this once and got hurt again during the R. I do admit that she and I are both stubbon as mules.
> 
> My codependency for her is as strong as ever and I am sure you can feel my pain through my words. However, how much punishment can I take? Why can't she try? The online dating profile really hurts. Tells me she doesn't want to try. Tells me she is still searching for that "high".


Well to me it sounds like you gave her a chance with MC. STBX did the same thing. He suggested MC (and also Sex therapist) and I said yes. Then when it came time to go, he refused. But I guess POSOW was in the picture by then I just didn't put 2 and 2 together then, I thought it was his pride getting in the way. 

The online dating thing, I can see how that hurts. But...you have one too right? Who's was up first? Maybe she did it cause she saw yours??? Defense mechanism?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> My codependency for her is as strong as ever





GutPunch said:


> The online dating profile really hurts. Tells me she doesn't want to try.


Makes sense to me. 

Good that you are aware, GP.


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> Excellent post Chapparal. I do believe the drug use, depression, and really deep depression after quitting the drugs played an enormous role in her decision making. My wife's infidelity was never even a concern my entire marriage. She didn't flirt, rarely ever a GNO. We had a good happy marriage.
> 
> When she tried to reconcile, I agreed to see marriage counseling. She cried that we couldn't throw 13 years away without trying. Here's the kicker, six days later (sex 3 times and me doing the opposite of MMSLP)she says it's not fair to me and she doesn't want to use me as a crutch to her recovery. I am devastated again. I believe my wanting to work things out pushed her away. Three days later when she returns the kids to me after a visit she casually mentions the marriage counseling thing again. This time I declined and said I have got to move forward. That's that. Mid January.
> 
> So now I really just look and watch her actions. I am cordial and friendly and go out of my way for her when the CHILDREN are involved. Her actions, flaking on visitation, no reaching out to me at all out even when I compliment, online dating profile; show me that she just isn't willing to do the hard work necessary or that she is even interested in reconciling at all.
> 
> I almost think the opiates have made her a little bipolar. I am at a loss as to what I can do. I don't think asking her on a date is the answer. I did this once and got hurt again during the R. I do admit that she and I are both stubbon as mules.
> 
> My codependency for her is as strong as ever and I am sure you can feel my pain through my words. However, how much punishment can I take? Why can't she try? The online dating profile really hurts. Tells me she doesn't want to try. Tells me she is still searching for that "high".



I may be mistaken, but the online dating thing sounds more like a lonely desperate women than anything.

I just get the feeling you two are tiptoeing around each other.

Maybe you could sit and talk with her when dropping off the kids..

Make a list of questions. I know it is hard when you are putting yourself on the line, even small heartbreaks add up.

I would ask her if she still would consider MC. Even if it doesn't work it could help bring closure.

I would ask her if divorce is what she really wants. 

Ask her how she feels about you dating now.

My point is, you need to know these answers to move on. And answers to other questions.

The depression, the bolting out the door, the sshort length of the affair. Saying it wasn't fair to use you as crutch. It just seems to much has gone unsaid.

Good luck from one who has also been gut punched. I took mine back but after a couple of years l decided our interests had totally grown apart and ended it. (She became an obsessed horsewoman.)


----------



## staystrong

"I took mine back" means she was the one who pushed to come back, right?

Gut Punch, it sounds like you are afraid to let yourself get vulnerable in front of her. Totally understandable. Let me ask you, in your words what are the objectives of MC at this point?


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> "I took mine back" means she was the one who pushed to come back, right?
> 
> Gut Punch, it sounds like you are afraid to let yourself get vulnerable in front of her. Totally understandable. Let me ask you, in your words what are the objectives of MC at this point?


SS

I am tired of pain. You know the exact feeling. I've been following you since the beginning. You know the pain I speak of. 

MC, IDK, just let them do what they do. Figure out what needs to be worked on and hammer away. 

Infidelity, yikes, what a big elephant in the room.


Another worry is, we R and I slowly die inside. WHo knows what would happen?


----------



## staystrong

I know your pain brother.

"Figure out what needs to be worked on and hammer away." 

I think this is how most people approach counseling. I know I did. Find the problem and fix it. Resolve conflicts and so on. The thing here is it makes it sound like a chore. Who wants that? What you really want is to have good experiences with you wife again, right? I think that's why chapparal suggested you ask her on a date. Neither of us is advocating rugsweeping, but hell man if it's too heavy it's not going to work.


----------



## GutPunch

HA! All this touchy feely the last few days makes me wanna puke. I go in to town today to get grocery shopping done. Ex ain't at work. Remember....this is her weekend with the kids. So I am babysitting. 

Captain.....set course for straight ahead. Engage.


----------



## zillard

Her priorities have not changed. Still selfish.

Good thing those kids have an awesome dad.


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> HA! All this touchy feely the last few days makes me wanna puke. I go in to town today to get grocery shopping done. Ex ain't at work. Remember....this is her weekend with the kids. So I am babysitting.
> 
> Captain.....set course for straight ahead. Engage.


Holy fvck some people are idiots! Don't you have the kids because she said she had to work??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

chapparal said:


> Good luck from one who has also been gut punched. I took mine back but after a couple of years l decided our interests had totally grown apart and ended it. (She became an obsessed horsewoman.)


Chap - Sorry, I don't know your story. Your TAM profile still shows you as married.

Have you divorced?


----------



## devastated3343

familyfirst09 said:


> Now this may seem kind of gross, but someone on TAM told me the next time I get a "craving" to reach out to STBX, to just picture where his lips have been, his hands, his ****, and possibly are right at this very moment....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This... this sounds like really bad advice. The minute my mind starts to drift to what my STBXW is doing on the nights my kids are with me I force my mind to something else - for my own sanity.

The approach you mentioned sounds more like self flagellation, causing yourself pain to associate that pain with her memory. But it's also like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die. 

I read someone else write that the next time you get a craving to reach out to your STBX, go masturbate. It's likely the sex you're missing.


----------



## Chaparral

old timer said:


> Chap - Sorry, I don't know your story. Your TAM profile still shows you as married.
> 
> Have you divorced?


Ha ha, my story goes back to the middle seventies. I came here because I had very bad trigger a couple of years ago. It happened long enough ago that the timeline I rdmember can't even be correct. The weird thing is that when I think about it, I still have moments where I realize something new. We had been together four years and after two years of reco I decided not to marry her.


----------



## old timer

chapparal said:


> Ha ha, my story goes back to the middle seventies. I came here because I had very bad trigger a couple of years ago. It happened long enough ago that the timeline I rdmember can't even be correct. The weird thing is that when I think about it, I still have moments where I realize something new. We had been together four years and after two years of reco I decided not to marry her.


Your 20-30 yr marriage on your profile is with another?


----------



## GutPunch

Feeling a little angry that the Ex was not at work yesterday. I almost want to say something. Feel like disabling the texting function on her phone. She is still carrying my health insurance so probably don't need to get petty and start a pi$$ing contest.


----------



## zillard

Respectfully bringing up what troubles you rather than bottling it up is healthier than taking the passive agressive road and getting 'even' by disabling her phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

devastated3343 said:


> This... this sounds like really bad advice. The minute my mind starts to drift to what my STBXW is doing on the nights my kids are with me I force my mind to something else - for my own sanity.
> 
> The approach you mentioned sounds more like self flagellation, causing yourself pain to associate that pain with her memory. But it's also like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.
> 
> I read someone else write that the next time you get a craving to reach out to your STBX, go masturbate. It's likely the sex you're missing.


No, its not meant to be bad advice. But I was missing him and wanting to hold him and kiss him and him to come home...those images are meant to help me not want those things from him and make me angry for what he is doing. Then I can put my thoughts elsewhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Feeling a little angry that the Ex was not at work yesterday. I almost want to say something. Feel like disabling the texting function on her phone. She is still carrying my health insurance so probably don't need to get petty and start a pi$$ing contest.


Starting to believe that anger is a huge part of codependence?


----------



## weightlifter

GutPunch said:


> Feeling a little angry that the Ex was not at work yesterday. I almost want to say something. Feel like disabling the texting function on her phone. She is still carrying my health insurance so probably don't need to get petty and start a pi$$ing contest.


OUCH. Health insurance. the 9999999999999 pound gorilla.


----------



## staystrong

Conrad said:


> Starting to believe that anger is a huge part of codependence?


I am. For myself that is.


----------



## Conrad

staystrong said:


> I am. For myself that is.


The term I like best is "secretly seething"


----------



## staystrong

zillard said:


> Respectfully bringing up what troubles you rather than bottling it up is healthier than taking the passive agressive road and getting 'even' by disabling her phone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Totally agree. I've spent a lot of time on that road and have paid some serious toll fees.

Stay cool, GutPunch.


----------



## staystrong

Conrad said:


> The term I like best is "secretly seething"


That's an apt description. It's like having a boiling cauldron inside you that is constantly being stirred.


----------



## Conrad

staystrong said:


> That's an apt description. It's like having a boiling cauldron inside you that is constantly being stirred.


When we let someone cross our boundaries, our body and mind react to it - even if our mouth doesn't.

It's fuel for pent-up rage.


----------



## GutPunch

I sure wish I was one of those people who just don't give a sh!t. I know they exist, I married one.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I sure wish I was one of those people who just don't give a sh!t. I know they exist, I married one.


No you didn't. She just goes out of her way to make sure everybody thinks she doesn't - because she won't admit to herself that she really does. Weak and frightened puffing up to scare potential threats away. 

Just like a blowfish.


----------



## GutPunch

Yes...I am a big ball of pent-up fiery rage. I never got a chance to ever even get mad at her. So afraid of doing anything that would hurt my custody case. Now I am dealing with anxiety issues from all of this. Terrible feeling when your wife tells you she going to OM's hotel for the weekend and there is nothing you can do to stop it.


----------



## staystrong

zillard said:


> No you didn't. She just goes out of her way to make sure everybody thinks she doesn't - because she won't admit to herself that she really does. Weak and frightened puffing up to scare potential threats away.
> 
> Just like a blowfish.


I don't know. It depends on the woman, doesn't it? My wife seems very self-secure about where she is and what's she doing. She just seems to accept that she's done what she's done, it wasn't a great thing, but we have to go on. Full speed ahead. She's not bat sh!t crazy, she's not making divorce difficult, and she cut me some slack about beating up her boyfriend even though she was traumatized by it (I, uhm, pulled out a kitchen knife and told him GTFO of the house.)


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> Yes...I am a big ball of pent-up fiery rage. I never got a chance to ever even get mad at her. So afraid of doing anything that would hurt my custody case. Now I am dealing with anxiety issues from all of this. Terrible feeling when your wife tells you she going to OM's hotel for the weekend and there is nothing you can do to stop it.


Man, what a slap in the face. She could have kept that to herself. 

When you say you never got mad at her, are you referring to this weekend or a longer time span?

Have you considered medication to help with the anxiety and thus the anger?


----------



## zillard

staystrong said:


> I don't know. It depends on the woman, doesn't it? My wife seems very self-secure about where she is and what's she doing. She just seems to accept that she's done what she's done, it wasn't a great thing, but we have to go on. Full speed ahead. She's not bat sh!t crazy, she's not making divorce difficult, and she cut me some slack about beating up her boyfriend even though she was traumatized by it (I, uhm, pulled out a kitchen knife and told him GTFO of the house.)


Of course it depends on the woman. 

This is what I observe in mine, ReG's, GP's and Garry's though. The attempts to reach out - the actions that don't match their words.


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> Of course it depends on the woman.
> 
> This is what I observe in mine, ReG's, GP's and Garry's though. The attempts to reach out - the actions that don't match their words.


That's the thing.

"Reach out" - but for what?

Throw Soca's in there too.

A "cordial friendly co-parent" thing, where I get to chat with you about my new a-hole posOM and you support me - in a platonic way, of course!"

Such a deal!

You mean, you guys aren't interested in that?


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Man, what a slap in the face. She could have kept that to herself.
> 
> When you say you never got mad at her, are you referring to this weekend or a longer time span?
> 
> Have you considered medication to help with the anxiety and thus the anger?


She couldn't keep it to herself. I busted her that day. 
On medication. lol
The whole time frame. I have always been pretty much cool and calm on the outside.


----------



## zillard

staystrong said:


> Man, what a slap in the face. She could have kept that to herself.
> 
> When you say you never got mad at her, are you referring to this weekend or a longer time span?
> 
> Have you considered medication to help with the anxiety and thus the anger?


I think a bit of it is to test your reaction. Somewhere along the line they lost respect. Letting you know what they are going to do see if you'll put up with it (weak) or put your foot down (strong). 

Mine did similar, GP. Stayed over at posOM's house. Promised never to again. Did again. Finally one time texted me to TELL me she was going to - said he asked her to take him beer because he hurt his back. 

It was bs though. She offered and he said he already had some. She went anyway. Part infatuation, part testing my response. Previously I failed. Not that night. Gave her an ultimatum - cut off contact completely and go to MC or D. She chose D.


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> I think a bit of it is to test your reaction. Somewhere along the line they lost respect. Letting you know what they are going to do see if you'll put up with it (weak) or put your foot down (strong).
> 
> Mine did similar, GP. Stayed over at posOM's house. Promised never to again. Did again. Finally one time texted me to TELL me she was going to - said he asked her to take him beer because he hurt his back.
> 
> It was bs though. She offered and he said he already had some. She went anyway. Part infatuation, part testing my response. Previously I failed. Not that night. Gave her an ultimatum - cut off contact completely and go to MC or D. She chose D.


And is still living with that choice.

And, none too serenely.


----------



## GutPunch

Well she got my reaction alright. Could not do anything that day but her a$$ was out when she came home. My situation was weird as it was a one time thing. 

Did you say he asked her to bring him some beer? Please. I know we are better off without them but it sure isn't easy.


----------



## zillard

Conrad said:


> That's the thing.
> 
> "Reach out" - but for what?





Conrad said:


> And is still living with that choice.
> 
> And, none too serenely.


Yep. Reach out for the kids? No. Reach out due to love for hubby? No. 

Reach out for validation. 

"Help me feel better about myself." <-- note I left the question mark off on purpose.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Did you say he asked her to bring him some beer? Please.


She said he asked. After I reviewed their correspondence I saw she offered. He tried to deflect (he'd already gotten what he wanted). She pushed it and went anyway. Of course he let her. 

As soon as he saw she was consciously letting it ruin her M and relationship with kiddo, and was more interested emotionally than he, he began pulling back.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> She said he asked. After I reviewed their correspondence I saw she offered. He tried to deflect (he'd already gotten what he wanted). She pushed it and went anyway. Of course he let her.
> 
> As soon as he saw she was consciously letting it ruin her M and relationship with kiddo, and was more interested emotionally than he, he began pulling back.


So just 75% scumbag!


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> So just 75% scumbag!


"I wish you two could meet. I think you'd be good friends - he's just like you."

:bsflag:

That stung - badly - for quite some time. Not anymore though. Now I see she was once again speaking emotionally and not rationally. This was all about her feelings for both being on a similar level. 

75 scum / 25 good + 25 scum / 75 good = awesome cake.


----------



## staystrong

zillard said:


> "I wish you two could meet. I think you'd be good friends - he's just like you."


Ugh. I got this line, too, Z. The friends part but not the just like you part. She even told me they'd wished he and I had met earlier so that perhaps the affair never would have happened. Thanks, that's what I needed to hear.



zillard said:


> This was all about her feelings for both being on a similar level.


Exactly.


----------



## Conrad

staystrong said:


> Ugh. I got this line, too, Z. She even told me they'd wished we'd met earlier so we would've been friends and the affair would never have happened. Thanks, that's what I needed to hear.


As if it wouldn't have happened had you been friends...

The old line, "My wife just ran away with my best friend, and DAMN, I'm sure gonna' miss him!"


----------



## zillard

What she likely meant was - I wish there was a way I could have both of you in my life with no guilt.


----------



## Chaparral

old timer said:


> Your 20-30 yr marriage on your profile is with another?


Yes thats correct. Ironically, her brothers and sisters have a terrible track record when it comes to marriage. The day of my wedding I was pondering how much my odds were than the 50 50 average. We definitely beat those odds.


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> She couldn't keep it to herself. I busted her that day.
> On medication. lol
> The whole time frame. I have always been pretty much cool and calm on the outside.


Okay, so that's "On medication. lol" as in "are you kidding me?". 

I think I would have snapped when Mrs GP took off in the car and left you with crying daughter in your arms (sorry to bring that up; I admire your strength). 

Myself, I was fairly good on the anger part until she false R'ed me and left. Then I started losing it. The yelling, the judgements, the name calling at times. I basically started snapped after she told D5 that "Mommy has a boyfriend" and then tried to introduce D2 and D5 to OM less than 3 weeks after she left the house. It's a good thing you can't own guns in the country I live in.


----------



## spun

zillard said:


> "I wish you two could meet. I think you'd be good friends - he's just like you."


They read this crap from the same play book, I swear.

I got "He's a really nice guy, just like you".

The insanity of it all?

She told me she left me because "I was never nice to her".


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> They read this crap from the same play book, I swear.
> 
> I got "He's a really nice guy, just like you".
> 
> The insanity of it all?
> 
> She told me she left me because "I was never nice to her".


And, think of the futility of building a logical case in the face of this.

It's exactly how you would talk to a man.

In this situation?

What good could possibly come from it?


----------



## staystrong

zillard said:


> What she likely meant was - I wish there was a way I could have both of you in my life with no guilt.


Here's a laugh for you.

She actually told me that several times. She told me that even as she was about to move in with him. She told me they had found a great place and maybe it would be our place if it didn't work out with him! I told her I'm no one's Plan B. It was even to the point where she told me she would have sex with me one last time to help me (i.e. a pity ****) but she would have to ask her boyfriend first. I thought about throwing out the window at that point. In hindsight, I should've agreed to get her to ask him. He would've loved to be asked that, I'm sure.

The fog was thick with this one.


----------



## Conrad

staystrong said:


> Here's a laugh for you.
> 
> She actually told me that several times. She told me that even as she was about to move in with him. She told me they had found a great place and maybe it would be our place if it didn't work out with him! I told her I'm no one's Plan B. It was even to the point where she told me she would have sex with me one last time to help me (i.e. a pity ****) but she would have to ask her boyfriend first. I thought about throwing out the window at that point. In hindsight, I should've agreed to get her to ask him. He would've loved to be asked that, I'm sure.
> 
> The fog was thick with this one.


You should have had her ask him - then turned her down.


----------



## staystrong

Conrad said:


> And, think of the futility of building a logical case in the face of this.
> 
> It's exactly how you would talk to a man.
> 
> In this situation?
> 
> What good could possibly come from it?



Did you say logical? :rofl:


----------



## familyfirst09

Conrad said:


> That's the thing.
> 
> "Reach out" - but for what?
> 
> Throw Soca's in there too.
> 
> A "cordial friendly co-parent" thing, where I get to chat with you about my new a-hole posOM and you support me - in a platonic way, of course!"
> 
> Such a deal!
> 
> You mean, you guys aren't interested in that?


Hey it applies to men too...my STBX, while discussing custody arrangements for D told me things were going great with POSOW and they were getting along fine. Then in the next instance telling me I should stay in our family home for another year (just in case right?). Seriously I don't want to hear how great you are getting along with the tramp who invaded my life like a long term illness I will never heal from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

Conrad said:


> You should have had her ask him - then turned her down.


I absolutely agree. I almost did but I'm sure she would've changed her mind once she met up with him.

Sadly, I actually did assertively persuade her to have sex with me previously while we were separated but still living under the same roof for a couple of more weeks. I say sadly because it demonstrates how f'ed up our relationship was at this point. Her heart was with OM but I figured but I might well try to have sex with her one last time to see if it would have any effect on her. Well, that, and because I wanted to have sex with her. It's twisted I know but listen that whole time period was insanity. It felt like a competition for her and it was. She had us both by the balls. (Can you say co-dependence?) Anyhow, she agreed but with some conditions. Long story short, I made sure that she and I would enjoy it immensely. Afterwards, while we were laying in bed, after a long pause of neither of us saying anything, she quietly said to me "Staystrong, if you want to have sex again before I leave, I think that would be okay." The game was afoot.


----------



## staystrong

familyfirst09 said:


> Hey it applies to men too...my STBX, while discussing custody arrangements for D told me things were going great with POSOW and they were getting along fine. Then in the next instance telling me I should stay in our family home for another year (just in case right?). Seriously I don't want to hear how great you are getting along with the tramp who invaded my life like a long term illness I will never heal from.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



And what does the 180 tell you to do there? I never really figured it out. I always felt like laughing when she told me stuff this crazy. It's not the appropriate response, though.


----------



## Conrad

staystrong said:


> And what does the 180 tell you to do there? I never really figured it out. I always felt like laughing when she told me stuff this crazy. It's not the appropriate response, though.


Laughing is not a bad response.


----------



## familyfirst09

180 my [email protected]@ ha! It was on the phone. My response was I don't want to hear your stupid sh!t and you're a fvcking idiot for putting her before your kid. And then to tell him he was a stupid *********. I think I said something about her having him wrapped around her finger like a whipping boy. I may have something like he was more interested in getting his **** sucked then his kid....lol...I was mad!!! 180 went out the window. he also made the comment of how he wanted his "simple life" and D was at the bottom of the list. 

This has nt happened very often, I have been very well controlled with my emotions around him. But once in a while he deserves an earful. 

He may get it tomorrow night if he shows up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

I think the logic of it is simply "Well, I've lost my chance at R, I feel disrespected so why not let them know what I think? I can 'heal' later on, I just need to get this off my chest.

It's very short-sighted but an easy trap to fall into when emotions are running high.

Zillard posted something about the anger cycle and at which step to cut it off so it doesn't bottle up. 

Meanwhile, GutPunch keeps his cool. What did you say to her GP?


----------



## familyfirst09

staystrong said:


> Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
> 
> I think the logic of it is simply "Well, I've lost my chance at R, I feel disrespected so why not let them know what I think? I can 'heal' later on, I just need to get this off my chest.
> 
> It's very short-sighted but an easy trap to fall into when emotions are running high.
> 
> Zillard posted something about the anger cycle and at which step to cut it off so it doesn't bottle up.
> 
> Meanwhile, GutPunch keeps his cool. What did you say to her GP?


Lol, you got it. But as much I would love to give him a piece of my mind all the time, I've only done it under very high emotions. I'm not going to give him anything to use against me and as much as I know I'm not supposed to care what other people think, I really don't want people to think I'm a nut job caused I freak out all the time. I want to be seen as the better one in all of this because frankly I am 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

And yesi read what Z posted...swirl or something. It was a great read. I have no idea where I'm at on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Meanwhile, GutPunch keeps his cool. What did you say to her GP?



Nothing! Still bothering me though. I should not be babysitting the kids for her. What's the consensus here on what I should do? If she was not at work, she should have gotten her kids. How do I tell her such or do I just drop it. Stay dark and wait for the papers to be signed.


----------



## familyfirst09

They're your kids tho, how can you say no?
Maybe I will think differently about this once I have someone in my life but right now, I still think you did the right thing by taking them. You didn't know she wasn't working. And I would also wait for the papers to be signed as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Nothing! Still bothering me though. I should not be babysitting the kids for her. What's the consensus here on what I should do? If she was not at work, she should have gotten her kids. How do I tell her such or do I just drop it. Stay dark and wait for the papers to be signed.


You - yourself - told me last week you wanted to wait for the papers when I encouraged you to take this up with her.

Which is it?


----------



## zillard

I for one have 1 free night a week. I need that time for me. 

I will take D7 if I don't have plans - and have. I will not if I have plans or just really need some me time - I've done this too. 

"I have plans Saturday night". Simple as that. 

Do you have a formal parenting schedule yet, even a temporary one?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> You - yourself - told me last week you wanted to wait for the papers when I encouraged you to take this up with her.
> 
> Which is it?


That was when I thought she had to work.
I believed her for some reason. 
I swear she's got some chemical imbalance now.
Who does that? Selfish liars.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> I for one have 1 free night a week. I need that time for me.
> 
> I will take D7 if I don't have plans - and have. I will not if I have plans or just really need some me time - I've done this too.
> 
> "I have plans Saturday night". Simple as that.
> 
> 
> Do you have a formal parenting schedule yet, even a temporary one?


We have a plan in the divorce papers that we adhere
too. She hasn't signed yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I believed her for some reason.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's showing you who she is.

You still don't want to believe her.


----------



## familyfirst09

"Who does that?". I just wrote the same words in my thread. 
How can they do these things and not feel guilt? Or do they and ignore it? (My "who does that" is the fact that STBX hasn't called or contacted D in a week). Seriously, who does that??

What is wrong with these people?!?! One time when STBX was still living here and he was supposed to be with D, he told me he was gonna be late cause he had to go buy his hunting licenses. I belived him. He didn't show up until after D was in bed. I later found the receipt for his hunting license, time stamped in the afternoon....he spent his evening/night with POSOW. 

And don't blame yourself for believing her, that's on her not you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> She's showing you who she is.
> 
> You still don't want to believe her.



I really don't want to believe. She just lost her
dam mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I really don't want to believe. She just lost her
> dam mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do realize that weekend of false R could merely have been a weekend where she and posOM hit a bump in the road.

And, her subsequent pullback may have been him apologizing.

It's likely none of it had a thing to do with you.

(Other than the codependent part


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> You do realize that weekend of false R could merely have been a weekend where she and posOM hit a bump in the road.
> 
> And, her subsequent pullback may have been him apologizing.
> 
> It's likely none of it had a thing to do with you.
> 
> (Other than the codependent part


_Posted via Mobile Device_

I don't think so. Posom was over super fast.
I do believe she is desperate to find posom2.
She needs one so she can be happy again.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> I don't think so. Posom was over super fast.
> I do believe she is desperate to find posom2.
> She needs one so she can be happy again.


Punch,

Mark this well.

It's so she can distract herself from what she is.


----------



## familyfirst09

Maybe you're not the only one who is CD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

Gut,
I feel like I'm walking in your shoes. MSTBX wants ME to watch our 3 children while she spends time this Saturday with her POSOM. She asked me to meet her halfway between states so she could drop them off with me. She says it's because her parents will be on their vacation home this weekend so I can't stay there. I responded with "well why don't you stay with them. I'll stay at the house we are renting (the one I HELP to pay the bills). She said she needs her SPACE and PRIVACY. That I go through her things. She wants to dictate if I can stay at the house I help to pay for? REALLY? What planet is she one? 

I really think she has a chemical imbalance. Ever since she started taking medication for her supposed ADHD she has dramatically changed. No morals whatsoever. 

Ugh!


----------



## Conrad

Hurt,

Practice this phrase:

"I'm not ok with that"

She does NOT make the rules, no matter what you taught her before.


----------



## spun

Hurt Odyssey_DK HL said:


> She wants to dictate if I can stay at the house I help to pay for? REALLY? What planet is she one?


She lives in entitled princess land.

But only because you allow her to.

Why are you paying her to leave you?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> She lives in entitled princess land.
> 
> But only because you allow her to.
> 
> Why are you paying her to leave you?


Damn good question spun.

I likely could use some help in the lumber yard with that one.


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

Thanks Conrad. I will definitely practice that phrase. I need to change my way of thinking from R to survival mode. Quick.


----------



## Chuck71

Hurt-When she gets frustrated with that phrase and spouts off...try this one from Conrad

"I'm sorry you feel this way" but try to have a $5k smile when you do


----------



## GutPunch

BIG....UPDATE

Around lunch today I get a phone call. It's the wife. Come to counselors office please it is really important.

I found out why she wasn't at work this weekend. 

She has been terminated as a pharmacist and her license pulled. I 
am going to enter her into rehab tomorrow. We will tell the kids tonight that mommy is sick and needs to go to the treatment center to get better. 

So sad. She will miss both kids birthdays. I know I don't owe her anything...but I need to help her for the children's sake. I could not live with myself if I just abandoned her.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> BIG....UPDATE
> 
> Around lunch today I get a phone call. It's the wife. Come to counselors office please it is really important.
> 
> I found out why she wasn't at work this weekend.
> 
> She has been terminated as a pharmacist and her license pulled. I
> am going to enter her into rehab tomorrow. We will tell the kids tonight that mommy is sick and needs to go to the treatment center to get better.
> 
> So sad. She will miss both kids birthdays. I know I don't owe her anything...but I need to help her for the children's sake. I could not live with myself if I just abandoned her.


Punch....

Support and rescue are two different things.

Restrain yourself!

Cool, firm, and dispassionate.

If she wants to spill it, let her.

BUT DO NOT SMOTHER


----------



## familyfirst09

You are not abandoning her...you are entering her into rehab and taking care of your kids. Seems like the right thing to do....what more would you be doing? Once she's in rehab she had to do the work, you can't do it for her. 

So what the "one year anniversary" false? Sad 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

CONRAD

I here you. Do not rescue. Just do what has to be done.

FF

One year clean was a lie. Appears that she started again shortly after false R. Man my life is a soap opera.


----------



## zillard

Oi. Sorry GP.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> CONRAD
> 
> I here you. Do not rescue. Just do what has to be done.
> 
> FF
> 
> One year clean was a lie. Appears that she started again shortly after false R. Man my life is a soap opera.


Only if you allow it.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Appears that she started again shortly after false R.


Yes. SHE started again. You did not do this. This is her.

Worry is fine but don't sink into guilt here.


----------



## Chuck71

Be a friend.....not a messiah.......


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

Sorry Gut. Be strong for the children.


----------



## GutPunch

Anybody think I'll miss the $1700 a month in child support and the nice health insurance. SMH


----------



## Chuck71

BE CAREFUL.........SHE MAY WANT RESCUED 

spider web in cognito


----------



## HappyKaty

This is good, GP. Your kids need a healthy mom.

Chin up, sweetie. 

It's time to do work, son - on YOU!


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> BE CAREFUL.........SHE MAY WANT RESCUED
> 
> spider web in cognito


It IS a chance for him to show her something different.

Niceguy rescuing is showing her "same"


----------



## Chuck71

hence friend / messiah comment


----------



## Conrad

Look how we are all worried about the same thing.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Look how we are all worried about the same thing.


Ok then... how do I go about this? Strong and silent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Ok then... how do I go about this? Strong and silent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Absolutely nothing about you.

Empathy for what she's saying.

No convincing.

Read the words to the song I posted, "Learn to Be Still"


----------



## happyman64

Wow Gut!

Does it really surprise you that she lost her job, requires legal counsel and has to go to rehab?

You are too good a man.

She is sooooo lucky that you are still there for her.

I just hope she realizes that someday when she is not in a drug induced stupor.......

HM64


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Absolutely nothing about you.
> 
> Empathy for what she's saying.
> 
> No convincing.
> 
> 
> Read the words to the song I posted, "Learn to Be Still"



Convincing of what?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Convincing of what?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


About how she really needs you.

Or about how the kids need both of you together.

None of that crap. Zero - nada - zilch


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Wow Gut!
> 
> Does it really surprise you that she lost her job, requires legal counsel and has to go to rehab?
> 
> You are too good a man.
> 
> She is sooooo lucky that you are still there for her.
> 
> I just hope she realizes that someday when she is not in a drug induced stupor.......
> 
> HM64


Thanks Happy
It's all about my kids now.
What do my kids need me to do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> About how she really needs you.
> 
> Or about how the kids need both of you together.
> 
> None of that crap. Zero - nada - zilch


_Posted via Mobile Device_

I know you can't tell from my posts but I have never
really did this.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> I know you can't tell from my posts but I have never
> really did this.


Point taken.

This would be so easy to lapse into that now. She's totally vulnerable and the LAST thing she wants is paternal pity.

Be the rock.

Talk less.

Do more.

When she asks (if she asks - don't volunteer if she doesn't), you simply handle everything going on outside of rehab.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sorry to hear about this latest twist, GP.


----------



## Stella Moon

Your very supportive gp...shes lucky yanno. I hope she's appreciative.


----------



## Chuck71

long night for you GP...............how are things in Bama


----------



## staystrong

How did it go, GP?


----------



## GutPunch

Wife came over last night after baseball practice. I fixed dinner for her and the kids. She gave the children baths and helped the oldest with his homework. Before they went to bed, we told them that Mommy was sick and will be going to a hospital to live for a while. That I would be picking them up from school on wednesdays now. I told them we could go see Mommy when the doctors allow it.

My six year old kinda got it but the three yold was oblivioius as expected. 

Getting financials in order this morning. I am about to go and get her. She has to be there at noon today.


----------



## zillard

It's good for the kids that you were able to tell them together.


----------



## K.C.

You are a good man GP. Lots of respect to you. stand strong and tread carefully.


----------



## GutPunch

I get to her place and she just got out of the shower
all vulnerable. All I could do to fight my primal
instinct. Went and got breakfast lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

It's a series of tough tests. That's a real tough one there!


----------



## Conrad

staystrong said:


> It's a series of tough tests. That's a real tough one there!


We all know that THIS is the moment where Punch shows her his masculine mettle.

He's going to handle everything.

Plenty of time for talking and emotion later.

She's likely going to have difficulty finding any kind of job.

There is no more pharmacist shortage and let's just say that addict pharmacists aren't in high demand.

Everything is on the table now.

Punch - remember - women interpret restraint as strength.


----------



## GutPunch

Well we are here. Place looks like camp. Spending time
with her brings back old feelings. She has been quiet
for most of the trip so I left it at that. I really had to fight
urges to reach out to her. I wanted to grab and hold her hand
but I didn't . I think I did good but it sure doesn't feel
like I did good. A little counter intuitive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I think I did good but it sure doesn't feel like I did good. A little counter intuitive.


Odd because it's different for you? But good.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-You did excellent. You must act like you did in junior high in PE class when you had to be seen in your undies around 50 other guys. Throw that persona out. Let the beard grow....don't wear deodorant every day....just don't blow your nose the old southern way LOL.


----------



## K.C.

So you are there to support her but feeling the urge to carry her instead?

Sounds like you did good to me.


----------



## GutPunch

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Awesome update


----------



## GutPunch

What an emotional day. I did good. No relationship
talk at all. Just did what I needed to. Hurts to spend 
such a long time with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> What an emotional day. I did good. No relationship
> talk at all. Just did what I needed to. Hurts to spend
> such a long time with her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay the course.

Overcome your neediness.


----------



## GutPunch

Working on it. Man do I feel it when I am around
her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

GP-Completely normal

It's what you had always felt

The new intuitive you sees whole picture

Much better view from here isn't it?


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> What an emotional day. I did good. No relationship
> talk at all. Just did what I needed to. Hurts to spend
> such a long time with her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bravo GP. Hang in there.


----------



## K.C.

GP, you did more than good.

Time spent with them is incredibly hard, especially when it's just "natural" and there is no fighting. Man I have been doing that for the whole duration of my split and though I am getting better.. i still cracked last night and screwed up.

Sounds like you have started off on the right foot though, bravo!


----------



## GutPunch

OK folks ... the admissions coordinator said Insurance will not cover the inpatient therapy. We are talking $39,000.00. Wow! Just wow!
Of course my wife is clueless in these situations so I had to take charge. So now I am scrambling to figure out a way to get the money for her. She has it but I have to get to it. Sell stock or retirrement or whatever. Maintain all her bills while she is gone.

I am in a lot of pain today. My desire to just reach out and comfort and hold her was all I could handle yesterday. I didn't do it but I am feeling the emotional pain of not doing it. 

How do I handle care packages and visits. She needs to see her kids. She needs support but how much from me? Letters from the kids? Letters from me? What do I do? How do I support but not smother?


----------



## ReGroup

Thinking of you GP and your family.

Do what ever feels right to you. 

Let the professionals do what they have to do; while you take care of the external stuff that you can control.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> OK folks ... the admissions coordinator said Insurance will not cover the inpatient therapy. We are talking $39,000.00. Wow! Just wow!
> Of course my wife is clueless in these situations so I had to take charge. So now I am scrambling to figure out a way to get the money for her. She has it but I have to get to it. Sell stock or retirrement or whatever. Maintain all her bills while she is gone.
> 
> I am in a lot of pain today. My desire to just reach out and comfort and hold her was all I could handle yesterday. I didn't do it but I am feeling the emotional pain of not doing it.
> 
> How do I handle care packages and visits. She needs to see her kids. She needs support but how much from me? Letters from the kids? Letters from me? What do I do? How do I support but not smother?


Is she checked in?


----------



## old timer

Damn buddy. I was feeling down about my sitch last night, but this really puts things in perspective for me. 

God bless and good luck, Gut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Is she checked in?


She is in. I gave them $3000.00 yesterday. 
I am an emotional mess this morning.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> She is in. I gave them $3000.00 yesterday.
> I am an emotional mess this morning.


Learn to be still.

Do nothing today except love your children.

I think having them write get well cards/letters to mommy is a great idea.

That will open communication and she will let you know what she wants.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I am in a lot of pain today. My desire to just reach out and comfort and hold her was all I could handle yesterday. I didn't do it but I am feeling the emotional pain of not doing it.
> 
> How do I handle care packages and visits. She needs to see her kids. She needs support but how much from me? Letters from the kids? Letters from me? What do I do? How do I support but not smother?


How would you help a friend under these circumstances?

That could be a way to approach it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> How would you help a friend under these circumstances?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I would tell him to get his sh!t together and to call me when he
gets out. lol


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I would tell him to get his sh!t together and to call me when he
> gets out. lol


I don't think so...


----------



## GutPunch

Just wrote my wife a letter in rehab basically stating that the children and I support and love her. We pray for her a full and speedy recovery. 

I then tell her that I cannot get thru to the finance people at the facility and give her the number and extension of who to contact concerning her retirement account. I told her that she would have to speak to them directly for security reasons.

This ok should I jerk it out of the mailbox?


----------



## Conrad

What are you expecting from her in return?


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Just wrote my wife a letter in rehab basically stating that the children and *I support and love her*. We pray for her a full and speedy recovery.
> 
> I then tell her that I cannot get thru to the finance people at the facility and give her the number and extension of who to contact concerning her retirement account. I told her that she would have to speak to them directly for security reasons.
> 
> This ok should I jerk it out of the mailbox?


Sounds fine to me, except the bold seems questionable. How true is it? Is it love or attachment?


----------



## Conrad

Part of enhancing attractiveness is doing away with unsolicited "I love you's" until you start hearing some.


----------



## GutPunch

Out of the mailbox even before I read your posts. Decided to wait for financial people to call me back and I will relay the information to them. Somebody will call me about that kind of money in question. I will provide info then. Less talk more action, right.

I guess any mail I send to her needs to be related to the kids. Pictures they drew for her or pictures of them. This way I am giving her support thru her crisis but maintaining my "attractiveness?"


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Out of the mailbox even before I read your posts. Decided to wait for financial people to call me back and I will relay the information to them. Somebody will call me about that kind of money in question. I will provide info then. Less talk more action, right.
> 
> I guess any mail I send to her needs to be related to the kids. Pictures they drew for her or pictures of them. This way I am giving her support thru her crisis but maintaining my "attractiveness?"


And giving her space to "miss you"


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> And giving her space to "miss you"


She's had that since October.

I should take the kids to visit her when allowed, right.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> She's had that since October.
> 
> I should take the kids to visit her when allowed, right.


I would. They'll likely want to see their mother. 

Also, she has had space to miss you, and she did. Attempted to R. But that was hard and confusing so she turned back to her preferred method of escape. Since then the drugs have been in control... not her.

Just something to think about.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> She's had that since October.
> 
> I should take the kids to visit her when allowed, right.


I wouldn't rush it.

Have them write letters and cards.

Don't rearrange anything to "make time"


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> But that was hard and confusing so she turned back to her preferred method of escape. Since then the drugs have been in control... not her.


No way to say this better.

Everything is in play now.


----------



## Chuck71

The use of drugs explains a lot

she partly expects you to save the day

nothing wrong with that

but do it in a c/f/d way...not the way

where you appear to seek her approval


----------



## old timer

Chuck71 said:


> The use of drugs explains a lot
> 
> she partly expects you to save the day
> 
> nothing wrong with that
> 
> but do it in a c/f/d way...not the way
> 
> where you appear to seek her approval


c/f/d ???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> Also, she has had space to miss you, and she did. Attempted to R. But that was hard and confusing so she turned back to her preferred method of escape. Since then the drugs have been in control... not her.
> 
> Just something to think about.



Now that I think about it ... the timing is uncanny.


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> c/f/d ???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


cool firm dispassionate


----------



## GutPunch

Is me seeing her so vunerable the reason why I am triggering so hard? My instinct and my newly acquired c/f/d knowledge are doing battle.


----------



## zillard

more broken than before. kicking your fix it reaction into overdrive


----------



## Conrad

39 grand for rehab? Sheesh.

I need to switch businesses.

Punch, I'll be blunt.

The next "relationship conversation" you have with her simply MUST be initiated by her.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> 39 grand for rehab? Sheesh.
> 
> I need to switch businesses.
> 
> Punch, I'll be blunt.
> 
> The next "relationship conversation" you have with her simply MUST be initiated by her.



Agreed.


----------



## Chuck71

If you can come up with $39k that fast.......you don't have a problem yet-Sam Kinison. lol

Did they say how long the stay will be? Had she been attending NA since the attempted R?


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> If you can come up with $39k that fast.......you don't have a problem yet-Sam Kinison. lol
> 
> Did they say how long the stay will be? Had she been attending NA since the attempted R?



Probably 3 months

NA meetings while on drugs....smh


----------



## Chuck71

Her actions....DDay to attempted R and post attempted R to now. Did you notice any comparisons / contrasts? Tie her behaviour into possible use and it should make a lot of answers uncovered. A big part will come out in rehab.....maybe some things you do not want to hear.


----------



## Awakening2012

GP - What has the rehab told you about their plans to communicate with you and rules for communicating with her while in treatment? 

I have been to a rehab myself (luckily my insurance covered it), and I can tell you if they are charging that kind of money, they ought to have a family support and engagement component to their program. The way it worked where I went, each client was assigned to a counsellor who was in communication with the client's family (spouse, s/o or parent as the case may be). It is part of their job to inform you about their clinical assessment and tratment plan and answer questions and concerns you may have. Clients were only allowed one 5 minute phone call per day on the facilities own cellphones, and otherwise had no access to phones or internet. Clients could receive mail, of course all of it opened and checked by staff. Family visits were held on Sunday afternoons. 

How far away is this place -- e.g. are visits logistically an option?

I want to echo others in saying that she is VERY LUCKY to still have your love and support. Addiction is a wretched destroyer of intimacy and of trust, and many a marriage has gone down the tubes because of it. If she "gets it" and stays clean and sober, she will one day appreciate the way you stood by her. Not every husband does, as I can attest -- so I envy her, I truly do.

Hang in there and take care of yourself and the kiddos.

Best, - A12


----------



## K.C.

Being the dolt i am right now, I can't really offer advice but I think you're doing great GP, and I am pulling for you. 

Your kids need a strong hand on the tiller right now so it's a good job they have you there.


----------



## GutPunch

Awakening2012 said:


> GP - What has the rehab told you about their plans to communicate with you and rules for communicating with her while in treatment?
> 
> I have been to a rehab myself (luckily my insurance covered it), and I can tell you if they are charging that kind of money, they ought to have a family support and engagement component to their program. The way it worked where I went, each client was assigned to a counsellor who was in communication with the client's family (spouse, s/o or parent as the case may be). It is part of their job to inform you about their clinical assessment and tratment plan and answer questions and concerns you may have. Clients were only allowed one 5 minute phone call per day on the facilities own cellphones, and otherwise had no access to phones or internet. Clients could receive mail, of course all of it opened and checked by staff. Family visits were held on Sunday afternoons.
> 
> How far away is this place -- e.g. are visits logistically an option?
> 
> I want to echo others in saying that she is VERY LUCKY to still have your love and support. Addiction is a wretched destroyer of intimacy and of trust, and many a marriage has gone down the tubes because of it. If she "gets it" and stays clean and sober, she will one day appreciate the way you stood by her. Not every husband does, as I can attest -- so I envy her, I truly do.
> 
> Hang in there and take care of yourself and the kiddos.
> 
> Best, - A12



Yes all of the above are true. I plan to participate when asked. My wifes IC said I needed to be there right in front of my wife.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> My wifes IC said I needed to be there right in front of my wife.


SHE may need you to be there right in front of her. 

You need to assess your own needs.


----------



## staystrong

Sorry, I think I asked before but where's her family throughout all this?


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Sorry, I think I asked before but where's her family throughout all this?


I'm sure they will visit when the time comes. They all got there own problems. Dad
is a little strange. They are not close. She divorced them at 16 remember.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I'm sure they will visit when the time comes. They all got there own problems. Dad
> is a little strange. They are not close. She divorced them at 16 remember.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Geezus Gut. You're all alL alone on this deal. 

Hang tough for the kids. 

I'm really, truly, seeing a road trip in my future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Geezus Gut. You're all alL alone on this deal.
> 
> Hang tough for the kids.
> 
> I'm really, truly, seeing a road trip in my future.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hell she along with my parents are in Bham


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Hell she along with my parents are in Bham


Ok. Cool. You make the road trip, then. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

Not much I can add, I think you're doing what needs to be done
**hugs**
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

3 months of in-patient rehab? That's long, no? No wonder it is so expensive.


----------



## GutPunch

SS

She's got herself a big problem that's hard to break.


----------



## old timer

Sent you a PM, Gut
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Sent you a PM, Gut
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hadn't got it?


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Hadn't got it?


I'm mobile, so might've screwed it up 

I'll resend from puter in a bit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

At the beach with a good friend this weekend.
Stayed out way to late and lost my phone.

Wife calls from rehab and we talk
for 10 minutes. Asks me to send her
a coat. At the end I get an unsolicited
I Love you. I did not say it back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Wow, GP, that's huge. I don't know what I would say to that either. 

But it is nice to feel wanted by those we love. No matter what.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> At the beach with a good friend this weekend.
> Stayed out way to late and lost my phone.
> 
> Wife calls from rehab and we talk
> for 10 minutes. Asks me to send her
> a coat. At the end I get an unsolicited
> I Love you. I did not say it back
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Send the coat.

Enclose a card with something funny on it - guaranteed to make her laugh.

Sign it...

Love, Gutpunch


----------



## zillard

Humor. the best tool in the chest.


----------



## happyman64

Glad you got out GP.

Stay strong.


----------



## Shaggy

A least the rehab is tax deductible. Make sure to get a receipt.

You might be able to use IRA to pay for it without penalty.


----------



## GutPunch

LA LA LIMBO
LA LA LIMBO
Por Ti Sere
Por Ti Sere


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> LA LA LIMBO
> LA LA LIMBO
> Por Ti Sere
> Por Ti Sere


Dislike...

Stay strong brother.


----------



## spun

GutPunch said:


> LA LA LIMBO
> LA LA LIMBO
> Por Ti Sere
> Por Ti Sere[/
> 
> You didnt choke on the bone she tossed you, did you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

No I didn't choke. Just some humor cuz divorce is postponed for at least 3 months.

She is throwing bones but I cool firm dispassionately dodge them.


----------



## Chuck71

La Bamba.........Los Lobos....Sept '87


----------



## spun

GutPunch said:


> No I didn't choke. Just some humor cuz divorce is postponed for at least 3 months.
> 
> She is throwing bones but I cool firm dispassionately dodge them.


Good.

Stay on course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

How have the children reacted to everything?


----------



## staystrong

Thinking about you and your fam. Hope all is well dude.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> How have the children reacted to everything?


They are doing good. They made cards for her last night that we are going to send with some candy.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> They are doing good. They made cards for her last night that we are going to send with some candy.


Will you be coming up anytime soon, Gut?

I'm serious about getting together, if possible. 
(and if you want to, of course). 

I'll understand if you don't. I really don't have much to offer other than being a friend. 

I could possibly be of help doing something up here for you that might save you a trip. 

Anyway - just know the invite is always open.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Will you be coming up anytime soon, Gut?
> 
> I'm serious about getting together, if possible.
> (and if you want to, of course).
> 
> I'll understand if you don't. I really don't have much to offer other than being a friend.
> 
> I could possibly be of help doing something up here for you that might save you a trip.
> 
> Anyway - just know the invite is always open.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I got your number!


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I got your number!


Check your PM's.

Now you *REALLY* got my number


----------



## weightlifter

GutPunch said:


> They are doing good. They made cards for her last night that we are going to send with some candy.


Reading between the lines. Good for you for not alienating your kids from their mother more than them simply knowing it was her that strayed not you.

MOM is important now matter how fu(ked up she is.


----------



## Chuck71

You can have a thousand lovers yet one mother. Hopefully she will repair this, if not....Dante's 9th ring awaits. You are the caretaker....the keeper. Right now, you are both mom and dad. How good is this? You will reflect on this in 2043 and smile...........as your grandchildren drive you to heavy drinking LOL


----------



## GutPunch

I agree Chuck and Weightlifter. I wil not use this as a tool to take these kids away from their Mother. She is wounded but not a danger to her kids. I have heard addicts cannot love but I don't agree. My father is an alcoholic and yet I know he loves his grandkids. My wife is an addict and I know she loves her kids.

She needs my support now more than ever.


----------



## Chuck71

They love, just not the way we expect. Treatment will help. Her love for children is far beyond hers for you. That is a real man's way. You are aware......


----------



## GutPunch

Rehab family counselor just sent me Codependent No More. HAHA
I guess I will have to read this thing.


----------



## familyfirst09

LOL, what made them send it to you??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> LOL, what made them send it to you??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think all family members of addicts get the book.


----------



## familyfirst09

Makes sense. Well you know you should read it and you didn't have to pay for it. 

How are you holding up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

Oh, he paid for it!

That's like saying the drink on the flight is "free".


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Oh, he paid for it!
> 
> That's like saying the drink on the flight is "free".


That's the truth. I don't think I could pay anymore than what I have given in this mess.


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Makes sense. Well you know you should read it and you didn't have to pay for it.
> 
> How are you holding up?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I am limbo still. I feel that the final chapter has not been written yet. The divorce is on hold and I am going to handle her affairs while she is gone. 

I am in a position that nobody wants to be in. The I don't know what is going to happen. I will try to live for today. 

I'll end it with my favorite Conrad saying.

It is what it is until it isn't.


----------



## Chuck71

The entire process is slow, AL and children within marriage. You are in no hurry. Take your time. Sunburn your thinning haired head @ 50k ft. I did......hands spf-12,000


----------



## GutPunch

Well...the wife has been calling every night to talk to the kids and I. I guess limbo is where I am going to stay for a while. I for some dumb reason believe that she still loves me although she only let it slip once.

50,000 ft is where I am going to hover for a good while. Just watch what she does. Hopefully, she will let me know. I think the frequent phone calls and so good to talk to you messages say a lot. 

And just think divorce papers were finalized and ready to sign this week. Isn't life funny. Just not quite ready to give up on her yet.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Well...the wife has been calling every night to talk to the kids and I. I guess limbo is where I am going to stay for a while. I for some dumb reason believe that she still loves me although she only let it slip once.
> 
> 50,000 ft is where I am going to hover for a good while. Just watch what she does. Hopefully, she will let me know. I think the frequent phone calls and so good to talk to you messages say a lot.
> 
> And just think divorce papers were finalized and ready to sign this week. Isn't life funny. Just not quite ready to give up on her yet.


Stay with the US Mail for custom coloring jobs and cards of support


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Well...the wife has been calling every night to talk to the kids and I. I guess limbo is where I am going to stay for a while. I for some dumb reason believe that she still loves me although she only let it slip once.
> 
> 50,000 ft is where I am going to hover for a good while. Just watch what she does. Hopefully, she will let me know. I think the frequent phone calls and so good to talk to you messages say a lot.
> 
> And just think divorce papers were finalized and ready to sign this week. Isn't life funny. Just not quite ready to give up on her yet.


Gut

It is only limbo if you put yourself there.

There is nothing wrong with still loving your wife. She is a sick, addicted woman.

I am glad you made the effort to get her into rehab. That shows everyone how much you care. I hope your wife is able to comprehend your positive actions and at least acknowledge that you have stood by her.

Does she deserve it? Only you can answer that.

But while her rehab is working on her and her addiction I hope you keep working on you and your family.

To get yourselves to a better place with or without her.

Your entire family is in my prayers Gut. Including your wife....

HM64


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Gut
> 
> It is only limbo if you put yourself there.
> 
> I think it's where I need to be.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with still loving your wife. She is a sick, addicted woman.
> 
> I know and that's why I cannot quite give up on her just yet. I do believe she would be there for me if the roles were reversed.
> 
> I am glad you made the effort to get her into rehab. That shows everyone how much you care. I hope your wife is able to comprehend your positive actions and at least acknowledge that you have stood by her.
> 
> She see's it and even her friends have noticed. They are now communicating witih me to offer their help. Some are attached to my kiddos. They now see thru wife's fog picture.
> 
> Does she deserve it? Only you can answer that.
> 
> I can't answer that. I do know we were both extremely happy for the first 10 years until another baby and a terrible disease got the better of her. Broke her down and she turned to drugs.
> 
> But while her rehab is working on her and her addiction I hope you keep working on you and your family.
> 
> I am doing my best to be the best that I can be. I do admit that is harder to do when you are alone and a single parent. I definitely feel a lot weaker than say one year ago.
> 
> To get yourselves to a better place with or without her.
> 
> Your entire family is in my prayers Gut. Including your wife....
> 
> Happy I appreciate you and all that you have done for me here!
> 
> HM64


----------



## Awakening2012

Hi GP - 

Reading your thread today made me cry, becasue I am so moved by the way you are standing by her. You are a great husband and father, and I hope one day your W gets to show her appreciation and make a living amends by showing you she can be the wife you deserve. I am so envious of her and of all those whose spouses do not give up on them and their marriages.

Single parenting and keeping it all together while she's away has got to be hard, but you are doing a heroic job of it. Sending prayers for you and your family.

Warmly, - A12


----------



## staystrong

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'd be mad at you if you WEREN'T supporting your wife. That's not an insult! It's a compliment. Because I think someone with less integrity would do so only begrudgingly, and you are not that man. You do so because you have sincere concern for her well-being. Whatever happens, she will appreciate this, your daughter will appreciate this (when she's older) and you will appreciate this yourself.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I agree with all of the above, GP. You're doing this for the right reasons. 

If it turns out that this latest episode was somehow the catalyst for driving you and your wife back into each others arms, then hallelulia.


----------



## GutPunch

A12, SS & BW

Thank you for the kind words. It's a long process and I am going to sit back and be still. Whatever happens is what happens. 

She clearly is reaching out to me. I just tell her that everything is going to be fine and that she needs to focus all of her energy into the treatment program and getting better. The children and I will support her all the way thru it.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> A12, SS & BW
> 
> Thank you for the kind words. It's a long process and I am going to sit back and be still. Whatever happens is what happens.
> 
> She clearly is reaching out to me. I just tell her that everything is going to be fine and that she needs to focus all of her energy into the treatment program and getting better. The children and I will support her all the way thru it.


Yes, she needs to focus on herself and her treatment. M, D and R talk can wait.


----------



## zillard

In a way I am happy for you GP, and a little jealous to be honest. 

Circumstances have it that she hit her rock bottom and is getting help before things were finalized.


----------



## K.C.

Your doing an awesome job GP.

Support but no empty promises.

You are well on the way to owning and healing your problems. It would be fantastic if she comes through her own process doing the same.

Youre doing the right thing in the right way. What more could any one ask.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> In a way I am happy for you GP, and a little jealous to be honest.
> 
> Circumstances have it that she hit her rock bottom and is getting help before things were finalized.



Jealous, haha, Don't be. I wouldn't wish the pain you and I have experienced thru all of this on my worst enemy. We are a long away from R. Hell, I'm jealous of the level of detachment and awareness you have reached. You also write better than me. Engineers do not make good writers.


----------



## Chuck71

True GP but you build a pretty damn good deck around the pool! I tried that once, resembled busted Tinker Toys


----------



## staystrong

Obviously we can't see it from the inside, but the story has hope. Your wife has the possibility of a real path to redemption.


----------



## Conrad

staystrong said:


> Obviously we can't see it from the inside, but the story has hope. Your wife has the possibility of a real path to redemption.


Yet, Punch needs to remain @50,000

We're not able to call it for someone else.

From the outside, she appears to have "bottomed"

BUT... the power of victimhood is strong.

You have no idea if she's still lying to herself.

Admittedly, this development holds more promise for their future than her lying and skipping work to bang posOM.


----------



## zillard

Conrad said:


> Yet, Punch needs to remain @50,000
> 
> We're not able to call it for someone else.
> 
> From the outside, she appears to have "bottomed"
> 
> BUT... the power of victimhood is strong.
> 
> You have no idea if she's still lying to herself.


Yeah, good point. 

Rehabs often have repeat customers. But this is a good opportunity for her.


----------



## Chuck71

GP you can see more than you realize. Imagine if it was one of your children in rehab. In a certain way....she is one of your children. View it from a parental role.....After all these years mom can just look at me and say...'you're full a crap'. special parent powers


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> Yeah, good point.
> 
> Rehabs often have repeat customers. But this is a good opportunity for her.


If she chooses to seize it.

Sound familiar?


----------



## GutPunch

Good points everyone. I have definitely got a wait and see attitude. She pretty much asked me if there was any way when she gets out to fix this. I told her that no doors are ever closed but that she needs to embrace the program and focus on herself and getting better. She need not worry about me or the kids. We will be there to support her thru the program.


----------



## Chuck71

Be as in a hurry as Congress is......well not 'that' hesitant


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Good points everyone. I have definitely got a wait and see attitude. She pretty much asked me if there was any way when she gets out to fix this. I told her that no doors are ever closed but that she needs to embrace the program and focus on herself and getting better. She need not worry about me or the kids. We will be there to support her thru the program.


Time to study up on your sex rank and all that good stuff.


----------



## GutPunch

NO I don't want to wait for them to balance the budget. That's for sure.


----------



## Chuck71

5/27 mid-term. 3 essay, 20 fill in the blank. cheat sheets at areyouserious.net - areyouserious Resources and Information.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Time to study up on your sex rank and all that good stuff.


This subject worries me as I am 40 she 34. I pontificate that I am around the 7 ballpark. Wife is a clear nine or 10. I'll give her a nine with all those addiction issues. I saw her email from her online dating profile. She literally gets 50 emails from dudes a day. 

My weaknesses are 40 and balding. Not much I can do about that. I am in good physical shape. However, this whole ordeal has taken its toll on me. Lost alot of good weight. 

Dressing nicer is something I could improve on.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> This subject worries me as I am 40 she 34. I pontificate that I am around the 7 ballpark. Wife is a clear nine or 10. I'll give her a nine with all those addiction issues. I saw her email from her online dating profile. She literally gets 50 emails from dudes a day.
> 
> My weaknesses are 40 and balding. Not much I can do about that. I am in good physical shape. However, this whole ordeal has taken its toll on me. Lost alot of good weight.
> 
> Dressing nicer is something I could improve on.


Dress nice, smell nice, be active and interesting.

A game everyday.

Are you funny?

So often, people in this type of mess totally lose touch with their sense of humor.

Women love men that make them laugh.


----------



## Chuck71

But what do the emails suggest?

I'm 41 and thinning......but I have game

remember the hottie gals in your graduating class

lukewarm at best now

@ 40 people search for different things than at 20

can I still close a bar? He!! yes!

is it as important? No

I am the same person I was in 1993, just wiser


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Dress nice, smell nice, be active and interesting.
> 
> A game everyday.
> 
> Are you funny?
> 
> So often, people in this type of mess totally lose touch with their sense of humor.
> 
> Women love men that make them laugh.


Yes, she enjoys my sense of humor. Probably how I won her over way back when. Even in college the guys would be like dam you are one lucky dude. How did you swing that? 

Of course, I would say she just wouldn't leave me alone so I gave in.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Yes, she enjoys my sense of humor. Probably how I won her over way back when. Even in college the guys would be like dam you are one lucky dude. How did you swing that?
> 
> Of course, I would say she just wouldn't leave me alone so I gave in.


That's the spirit. Seriously.


----------



## familyfirst09

zillard said:


> In a way I am happy for you GP, and a little jealous to be honest.
> 
> Circumstances have it that she hit her rock bottom and is getting help before things were finalized.


This is what I meant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

GutPunch said:


> This subject worries me as I am 40 she 34. I pontificate that I am around the 7 ballpark. Wife is a clear nine or 10. I'll give her a nine with all those addiction issues. I saw her email from her online dating profile. She literally gets 50 emails from dudes a day.


OP from what I saw in your pic some pages back, I think you are selling yourself short, compared to your wife. If we think of 5 as average, 7 is solid. 

You might get pissed, but your wife is not a 10... 10 is supermodels and such. Maybe 7-8... maybe. And don't forget what constitutes as a high SR in the hookup market doesn't always translate to high quality in marriage. Your wife loses a lot of good beta qualities due to sexual infidelity and addiction, that drops SR a lot.



> My weaknesses are 40 and balding.












Balding didn't stop this guy from creating a style that works for him(works extremely well,too).


----------



## old timer

40???

Ha - get in the game, grasshopper


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

old timer said:


> 40???
> 
> Ha - get in the game, grasshopper


Indeed.

40 is the new 39.


----------



## K.C.

How was the weekend GP? Was it Mother's Day over there?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chopsy

at one point I put ads up on a few dating sites (now taken down) and the amount of emails and messages I got was crazy and I am maybe a 5 or 6 on a good day. and the people who were messaging and what they were messaging? lets just say not alot of quality, certainly no one I messaged back! I mean, there are alot of freaks out there so dont be too impressed with piles of messages from dating sites. I'm sure there are some folks out there, but I had alot of creeps and freaks messaging me.


----------



## GutPunch

Haha not much to complain about when the wife is locked up. 

She calls daily usually twice. We talk about the kids and
such and her treatment program.

Just taking one day at a time. Trying to remain as cool calm and dispassionate as I can.

She does throw a lot of feelers out there that I usually deflect.

My son turned 7 on Sunday and next Sunday is the big visit to Mommy's hospital. 

Finally my son is possibly on the worst baseball team ever. Practice game we lost 25-0 but who's keeping score.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Yo, GP. 

Still following your thread, my man. Whatever the hell you're doing, keep it up. 

This is probably just wrong to say, but maybe you can pay the rehab guys to keep your wife longer....


----------



## GutPunch

Chopsy said:


> at one point I put ads up on a few dating sites (now taken down) and the amount of emails and messages I got was crazy and I am maybe a 5 or 6 on a good day. and the people who were messaging and what they were messaging? lets just say not alot of quality, certainly no one I messaged back! I mean, there are alot of freaks out there so dont be too impressed with piles of messages from dating sites. I'm sure there are some folks out there, but I had alot of creeps and freaks messaging me.


How come every email I get is from
some guy in Nigeria wanting my credit 
card numbers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

BW 

Not financially feasible.
But a good idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Haha not much to complain about when the wife is locked up.
> 
> She calls daily usually twice. We talk about the kids and
> such and her treatment program.
> 
> Just taking one day at a time. Trying to remain as cool calm and dispassionate as I can.
> 
> She does throw a lot of feelers out there that I usually deflect.
> 
> My son turned 7 on Sunday and next Sunday is the big visit to Mommy's hospital.
> 
> Finally my son is possibly on the worst baseball team ever. Practice game we lost 25-0 but who's keeping score.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cards and letters still flowing?


----------



## happyman64

I hope you told your son that sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

But no matter if you win or lose what matters is how you play the game and tried your hardest.

Kinda like your marriage GP????

Maybe God is sending you a message.........

And of course she is sending you feelers. You are the rock.

Maybe in time you will be her rock. But of course it is to early for that to be even considered.

And that choice is yours GP.


----------



## Chuck71

Well remember the Bad News Bears? It's early in the season. Prep for the big visit. Mention to W something she can get son for birthday, something hand made by her. C-F-D....stay the course. W knows you care....she just may be trying to communicate she is desiring to change. But as Rush sang, "show me don't tell."


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Cards and letters still flowing?


Yes, and they are working.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

What page is his wife pic on?


----------



## Chuck71

p-27


----------



## weightlifter

Gut. Please dont be offended... (And here comes the offending)

10s marry royalty and billionaires. Not random guys in Alabama
9s are full time models and marry millionaires with 250K plus plus incomes. Not random guys in Alabama.
8s are the highest pull a normal man normally gets.

Shes a 6 or 7 on a 5 median bell curve. Above average? Yep. Not the highest pull a normal man gets tho. Sorry again.

/e ducks incoming fire

Cant judge you unless you are under a three or over an eight. Im hetero and cant tell much in the median on male looks.


----------



## K.C.

I don't know about scoring these things but if I recall the wedding pic wasn't one of those "how the hell did "he" manage to land "her" pics. Not because she isn't attractive but because you aren't so bad yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

K.C. said:


> I don't know about scoring these things but if I recall the wedding pic wasn't one of those "how the hell did "he" manage to land "her" pics. Not because she isn't attractive but because you aren't so bad yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was a young man in that pic.


----------



## K.C.

Men don't get old just distinguished!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Six my a$$. lol Maybe if you factor in internal beauty. I could be prejudiced though as I love long legs and she's 6' tall.

Please don't call her a six cuz....that makes me a 4.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> Well remember the Bad News Bears? It's early in the season. Prep for the big visit. Mention to W something she can get son for birthday, something hand made by her. C-F-D....stay the course. W knows you care....she just may be trying to communicate she is desiring to change. But as Rush sang, "show me don't tell."


Well...this team needs about five of those 8 year old hoodlums riding a motorcycle cuz we can't get anybody out. or hit for that matter.


----------



## weightlifter

Dude I call em as I see em. A SIX IS ABOVE AVERAGE!!!!!

And I still cant tell how good looking you are. Ask the females.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Yes, and they are working.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay the course.


----------



## staystrong

She's a very attractive woman.

Damn, if she's 6' then that makes you a giant. 

Some notes...

- People tend to mate with their physical matches. You guys did. There's no mismatch there.
- She cheated down, from all we can tell. Way down, right?
- The helping profession, the drug addiction - both frequent markers to an affair. 
- POSOM 2 / Dating sites - more manifestations of temporary disillusionment, no real direction
- The affairs did not last. She's hit rock bottom. 
- Who helps her to the rehab. Who's there for her? The Husband. Not a white knight, but a rock.
- Her 'abandonment' of your daughter - a symptom of a deeper problem. In this case, not a core marker of bad mother. She didn't leave the State to go be with someone else or anything like that. 

I think she will re-discover herself in therapy, and when she does she will have real come to Jesus moment with herself. A come to balding Jesus moment, if you catch my drift. 

Not to get your hopes up, I'm just calling it as I see it.


----------



## GutPunch

POSOM was 5'-5". LOL funniest part of the whole ordeal. Her father was even like What? However, he was a doctor. Dude preys on women going thru drug problems. 

Needless to say but if I was that pipsqueak I would stay far away from me. 

One bearhug from me could squeeze the life out of him.


----------



## weightlifter

You could squeeze the life out of him? All those voting Gut bearhugs OM 5 times?

AYE!


----------



## Bullwinkle

What? Wait! Stop the presses! 5'5"? Are you shytting me?

I've heard enough, GP, I'm coming to Alabama, itf there's an airport down there, bringing this little dude back to DC to be my lawn gnome.


----------



## GutPunch

BW, I think he'd fit in an overhead compartment. No need to pay the extra $25.00.


----------



## Tron

staystrong said:


> I think she will re-discover herself in therapy, and when she does she will have real come to Jesus moment with herself. A come to balding Jesus moment, if you catch my drift.
> 
> Not to get your hopes up, I'm just calling it as I see it.


GP, I've been following your thread for about 6 weeks and been through it twice. I am with SS on this. And, I am really interested in seeing how your visit goes this weekend. I'm guessing 6 to 8 weeks from now, right before she is due to come out you are going to get everything you wanted several weeks ago.



GutPunch said:


> I would like for her to reach out first.


 *She already has.* 



GutPunch said:


> Accept responsibility for what she has done. Effort is what I want to see. Lots and lots of effort.


 * She is working on it.*



GutPunch said:


> Remorse would be good to. Not that boohooing crap she did last month cause SHE was lonely over the holidays. I am talking regret for the pain she caused ME and especially the pain my precious son and baby girl have endured.


 *She may already be way ahead of you on this. I have a feeling she was overwhelmed with this and that is what sent her over the edge and put her back in rehab.*



GutPunch said:


> I don't think she's capable. Not the greatest childhood. Never has been the affectionate type. She legally divorced her own parents for Christs sake.


 *No doubt she has some bad history, but I hope you're wrong about this and that she finally comes around.*

In the meantime, keep doing what your doing, because it is all good. You're a good and honorable man...and if everyone didn't know it before, they know it now.



As far as Weightlifter's attractiveness ratings, I honestly don't think that you can just look at what's on the outside. I gotta believe that you have to average out the inside with the outside. So...let's assume than W is a 8 on the outside...and maybe a 2 or 3 on the inside. I don't totally understand the male attractiveness scale either but I gotta believe you're at least a 5 or 6 on the outside and say a 9 or 10 on the inside. Your an engineer, you do the math... But it looks to me like you married down just a little.


----------



## familyfirst09

How tall are you GP?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Over head compartment, LOL.

The first POSOM in TAM history to be used as carry-on luggage.


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> How tall are you GP?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


6'-2" Lean Mean Faithful Machine


----------



## zillard

She definitely affaired down. 

9 inches down. But who doesn't want a cute lil' munchkin in a doctor costume? ahhhh


----------



## Chuck71

Most POS-APs are several notches below the spouse. Wonder why...I always saw it as an insurance policy in regards to the attempted ego-boosting affair.


----------



## GutPunch

Well...No visit this weekend. Rehab will not
let her. Not been there quite long enough. 
The I love you's have slipped the last couple
of phone calls from her. I just act like I don't
here them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> 6'-2" Lean Mean Faithful Machine


Lol, love it 
Sigh...I've always wanted to be with a man that I have to stand on my tippy toes to kiss...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> Well...No visit this weekend. Rehab will not
> let her. Not been there quite long enough.
> The I love you's have slipped the last couple
> of phone calls from her. I just act like I don't
> here them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do hear them tho...what does it make you think?? Gosh you seem to be holding up so well with all of this. How are your kids doing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> You do hear them tho...what does it make you think?? Gosh you seem to be holding up so well with all of this. How are your kids doing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I here them I say to myself.

Don't do what you did last time.

I am clearly showing her how i feel thru action.

Who knows if she means it or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

My kids hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> My kids hurt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 sorry. They're lucky to have a dad like you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

And what will you say if she asks you if you still love her?


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> And what will you say if she asks you if you still love her?


I would say what do my actions tell you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Need help. Probably will need to bring the lumber.

Rehab had to have six grand yesterday. I ended up 
putting it on my credit card interest free until
April 2014. Maybe I could borrow, sell stocks, and
empty savings in order to avoid her imploding her
401k.

Financially a better option for us. Key word US.

Is this the fixer in me risking every thing to come to the rescue. If I borrow 
money she could really screw me over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Is there no way you can ask her a dad to help out and defray some of the costs?


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Is there no way you can ask her a dad to help out and defray some of the costs?


No...He is a financial idiot. He's a dam Dr. and is so bad with money he 
actually lives paycheck to paycheck.

Tax problems.. Yada Yada Yada
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> No...He is a financial idiot. He's a dam Dr. and is so bad with money he
> actually lives paycheck to paycheck.
> 
> Tax problems.. Yada Yada Yada
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Uhhhh. I think I know where some of your wife's bad reasoning come from.

Oh well.


----------



## staystrong

What possessions of HERS can be sold? Car, computer equipment, jewellery, etc. 

When she gets out, she's going to have to rebuild her life. Psychologically, materially, etc.


----------



## familyfirst09

Her 401k is her retirement fund correct? (That's not what they call it here). Why not dip into that. It makes her accountable for her actions. 

What is best for YOU and your children financially?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

GP-From a sole financial point of view.......what will the additional funds cover which the original $40k did not? I would press the issue as "hidden costs." But the rehab has the golden arrow......she MUST complete rehab to get..........Meaning you must comply. If you choose to inquire with the rehab....drop a hint about notifying the state about the charges.


----------



## old timer

She may be able to use monies from her 401k w/o penalty for medical expenses such as this. 

But you already know the answer to your question:
Even if there is a penalty, this expense should be on HER. 
You are enabling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Looks like everyone here thinks I should nuke the retirement account. Deep down I tend to agree. May not be the best decision financially but we are not the same couple we were a year ago. 
For me to carry that burden would be a completely blind leap of faith that she has not earned from me.

What say you?


----------



## soca70

GP - you can have her take a loan out (like 5 years) on her 401K - usually up to 50% without penalty if you repay directly back into it in future paycheck deductions. This is easily done with the 401k administrator.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Looks like everyone here thinks I should nuke the retirement account. Deep down I tend to agree. May not be the best decision financially but we are not the same couple we were a year ago.


See? You already know the answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Looks like everyone here thinks I should nuke the retirement account. Deep down I tend to agree. May not be the best decision financially but we are not the same couple we were a year ago.
> For me to carry that burden would be a completely blind leap of faith that she has not earned from me.
> 
> What say you?


Punch,

She has to pay for this.

It's a pure #3 if you do it.

Think of it.

You pay for rehab.

She leaves.

#3


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> For me to carry that burden would be a completely blind leap of faith that she has not earned from me.
> 
> What say you?


You've already said it.

You pay for it > she gets out > you divorce > where are you?


----------



## familyfirst09

What has she said about how to pay for all of this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

happyman64 said:


> Is there no way you can ask her a dad to help out and defray some of the costs?


^I don't think this is proper either^
It's still enabling her


----------



## GutPunch

She is in over her head. She is in treatment. This is not her cup of tea. 

I know what to do just needed some reassurance. I cannot enable her. I can't save her. I can't fix her problems.

I cannot leave myself so vunerable.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> She is in over her head. She is in treatment. This is not her cup of tea.
> 
> I know what to do just needed some reassurance. I cannot enable her. I can't save her. I can't fix her problems.
> 
> I cannot leave myself so vunerable.


You would be opening yourself up for an elephant stomp of epic proportions.


----------



## old timer

Conrad said:


> You would be opening yourself up for an elephant stomp of epic proportions.


Yup


----------



## Tron

soca70 said:


> GP - you can have her take a loan out (like 5 years) on her 401K - usually up to 50% without penalty if you repay directly back into it in future paycheck deductions. This is easily done with the 401k administrator.


:iagree:

Option 1 - borrow from 401K. If Option 1 not feasible then nuke it. Can probably do it without penalty anyway. I think she'll come around but the risk reward to you just isn't there and this is her burden to carry.


----------



## GutPunch

Considering she no longer works there, carpet bombing the 401K seems to be the way to go. I could save this from happening but an elephant stomp of epic proportions does not sound all that appealing to me.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Considering she no longer works there, carpet bombing the 401K seems to be the way to go. I could save this from happening but an elephant stomp of epic proportions does not sound all that appealing to me.


This is her doing. Her rehab. Her job loss. Her 401k.


----------



## Chuck71

Allow her to own her own emotions / chaos / aftermath

Everything which happens has an equal and opposite reaction


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Considering she no longer works there, carpet bombing the 401K seems to be the way to go. I could save this from happening but an elephant stomp of epic proportions does not sound all that appealing to me.


The mother of all GutPunches


----------



## GutPunch

Yes...and if I lose another 30 lbs. I'll slide down the shower drain.


----------



## GutPunch

No phone call last night. Why does this bother me? I talked to her 
twice yesterday. 

Am I getting sucked back in emotionally? SMH

I need some emotional armor to protect me.


----------



## familyfirst09

You are getting "sucked back in" but not sure if that is the best way to say it. 

You're a good guy, its showing through. Whether or not she is taking advantage...not sure...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

I don't think anybody here would expect you to not be anticipating that call and kind of missing it if it didn't happen. It's just important that you recognize it and not let it guide your actions. 

How did the calls end yesterday? Was the rehab payment the discussion?


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> I don't think anybody here would expect you to not be anticipating that call and kind of missing it if it didn't happen. It's just important that you recognize it and not let it guide your actions.
> 
> How did the calls end yesterday? Was the rehab payment the discussion?


One call was with her and her family counselor concerning step one of the NA program. Something about who she hurt the most. We all know who that is! 

We mostly just chit chat about her day and the children. We talk about finances, insurance, taxes etc. She keeps calling but 
I am not clear on her intentions. Could she be manipulating me? I hope not but it is possible.

How do I get her to communicate what she wants?


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> How do I *get her to* communicate what she wants?


You don't. You let her figure out what she wants. Be still and listen if she does decide and chooses to communicate.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> One call was with her and her family counselor concerning step one of the NA program. Something about who she hurt the most. We all know who that is!
> 
> We mostly just chit chat about her day and the children. We talk about finances, insurance, taxes etc. She keeps calling but
> I am not clear on her intentions. Could she be manipulating me? I hope not but it is possible.
> 
> How do I get her to communicate what she wants?


Be patient GP. When she is ready, she will communicate with you. She is only 2 weeks into rehab, with another 2.5 months to go. She hasn't figured it all out yet. It is a process, and a process she has to go through herself. All you can do is listen, be kind, be patient and try to be understanding. 

As far as what to do with the "I love you's"...that has to be gut wrenching. Is it reaching out or spinning webs? She has spun webs before, but the process requires you to be honest. I gotta believe she is really reaching out to you. How to acknowledge or respond without getting sucked in? Maybe a compassionate "I know you do WW" and leave it at that. Chip will probably recommend you be silent, but I don't really know what she needs to hear right now to get better. Good question for her counselor maybe without her there. You still have to protect you.

I suppose she knows the D is on hold for now? 

Looking ahead GP, unless you are able to internally compartmentalize/rug-sweep or blame everything on the pills, R with her is going to be particularly difficult, especially when you trigger. Are you going to feel like you have to hold back on releasing the pain for fear that the full brunt may send her off to pop a pill to escape? Is she strong enough to handle it? I don't know how you successfully hold it in and deal with that long-term. Another question for the counselors when the time comes.

How hard on her were you before October?


----------



## Chuck71

Very tough call. A situation where it is easy to fall into the "I would rather not be wrong than right"


----------



## familyfirst09

Is POSOM still in the pic?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Is POSOM still in the pic?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, that ended after one encounter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> Be patient GP. When she is ready, she will communicate with you. She is only 2 weeks into rehab, with another 2.5 months to go. She hasn't figured it all out yet. It is a process, and a process she has to go through herself. All you can do is listen, be kind, be patient and try to be understanding.
> 
> As far as what to do with the "I love you's"...that has to be gut wrenching. Is it reaching out or spinning webs? She has spun webs before, but the process requires you to be honest. I gotta believe she is really reaching out to you. How to acknowledge or respond without getting sucked in? Maybe a compassionate "I know you do WW" and leave it at that. Chip will probably recommend you be silent, but I don't really know what she needs to hear right now to get better. Good question for her counselor maybe without her there. You still have to protect you.
> 
> I suppose she knows the D is on hold for now?
> 
> Looking ahead GP, unless you are able to internally compartmentalize/rug-sweep or blame everything on the pills, R with her is going to be particularly difficult, especially when you trigger. Are you going to feel like you have to hold back on releasing the pain for fear that the full brunt may send her off to pop a pill to escape? Is she strong enough to handle it? I don't know how you successfully hold it in and deal with that long-term. Another question for the counselors when the time comes.
> 
> How hard on her were you before October?


She asked me about the D. I told her
it was on hold. 

Before Dday what do you mean hard on her?

The visit this weekend is back on. Its 
gonna be interesting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> She asked me about the D. I told her
> it was on hold.
> 
> Before Dday what do you mean hard on her?
> 
> The visit this weekend is back on. Its
> gonna be interesting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was the right answer.

Remember.... 2/3


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> She asked me about the D. I told her
> it was on hold.
> 
> Before Dday what do you mean hard on her?
> 
> The visit this weekend is back on. Its
> gonna be interesting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For the next couple months you are going to have some time to mull things over without the stress of the separation, the D, lawyers, kid exchanges, seeing her every day, etc. It is going to be reasonably calm for a while...a good time for you to slowly reflect on the past couple of years. 

I was curious about how things were between feb and oct last year right before the EA. You mentioned her dealing with depression/withdrawal, unhappy and unsatisfied with you and the family, disconnect etc. and that you waited for her to come around. Was it just the depression, the drug withdrawal, or what else that might have set her on that path. Did taking care of the kids wear her down? Did you guys argue much? Just curious if there were any other stressors at home or work during that time that could help you to gauge how she might handle things when she gets out. 

Family visit is back on? That is encouraging news. How you feeling about it?


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> For the next couple months you are going to have some time to mull things over without the stress of the separation, the D, lawyers, kid exchanges, seeing her every day, etc. It is going to be reasonably calm for a while...a good time for you to slowly reflect on the past couple of years.
> 
> I was curious about how things were between feb and oct last year right before the EA. You mentioned her dealing with depression/withdrawal, unhappy and unsatisfied with you and the family, disconnect etc. and that you waited for her to come around. Was it just the depression, the drug withdrawal, or what else that might have set her on that path. Did taking care of the kids wear her down? Did you guys argue much? Just curious if there were any other stressors at home or work during that time that could help you to gauge how she might handle things when she gets out.
> 
> Family visit is back on? That is encouraging news. How you feeling about it?


I read that her depression and inability to cope with ORDINARY life is the textbook script for an opiate addict in recovery. They become instant gratification seekers, have problems with their own identity, often become addicts of other things including high risk behavior (POSOM). The Dr. stated that a routine life is boring and mundane to them, almost unberarable. ... and yes both of us working full time jobs and raising two small kids definitely were stressors.

I am excited about the visit. I am trying to remain still and not get too emotionally involved. She calls everyday but again it's mostly chit chat about our days.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I am excited about the visit. I am trying to remain still and not get too emotionally involved. She calls everyday but again it's mostly chit chat about our days.


On the upside, this opens a dialogue between you and a now sober person - something you haven't had in some time.

My father went through rehab at a facility just north of Bham years ago (chronic alcoholism). I know being sober helped open his eyes about what his addiction had done to our family over the years. I saw true sadness and remorse from him for the first time in my life.

Hopefully the same will happen for Ms. Gutpunch.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

.


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> On the upside, this opens a dialogue between you and a now sober person - something you haven't had in some time.
> 
> My father went through rehab at a facility just north of Bham years ago (chronic alcoholism). I know being sober helped open his eyes about what his addiction had done to our family over the years. I saw true sadness and remorse from him for the first time in my life.
> 
> Hopefully the same will happen for Ms. Gutpunch.
> 
> My thoughts and prayers are with you.
> 
> .



My Dad could use a visit there too. Sadly, I cannot control what he does.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I read that her depression and inability to cope with ORDINARY life is the textbook script for an opiate addict in recovery. They become instant gratification seekers, have problems with their own identity, often become addicts of other things including high risk behavior (POSOM). The Dr. stated that a routine life is boring and mundane to them, almost unberarable. ... and yes both of us working full time jobs and raising two small kids definitely were stressors.
> 
> I am excited about the visit. I am trying to remain still and not get too emotionally involved. She calls everyday but again it's mostly chit chat about our days.


When you're with her. Be still. Let her talk to you.

Look at her... let her see your eyes.

Rock of Gibralter.


----------



## K.C.

GutPunch said:


> I am excited about the visit. I am trying to remain still and not get too emotionally involved. She calls everyday but again it's mostly chit chat about our days.


Just chit chat is probably the right thing for a while anyway. Doubt she is in a position to be 100% about what she wants so anything deeper than that I would guess is probably unhelpful.

Good luck with being still. It is so damn hard when they are right there but I believe you can do it.


----------



## Bullwinkle

They're right, GP. Let her talk. Be still. 

She may reveal al kinds of things.


----------



## Awakening2012

Good luck with the family visit, GP. Thinking of you, and hoping it goes well  

Cheers,- A12


----------



## staystrong

Practice in front of the mirror.

And good luck.


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Practice in front of the mirror.
> 
> And good luck.



:rofl: What Flexing?


----------



## Bullwinkle

Did the visit come together, GP?

How did it go?


----------



## Chaparral

This reminds me of something I read when researching meth addiction. The drugs destroy the ability to experience pleasure unless on the drug. It burns out the part of the brain that experiences emotions. The drug isvstrong enough to bring back good feelings.

I hope your wifes treatment works. I have seen many people, over the years, beat addiction and many that have failed.

Prayers for your family.


----------



## GutPunch

Thanks everyone for the kind words. The big family visitation is later today. I am just going to enjoy the moment. I refuse to analyze what this or that means. 

She calls on average about twice a day. I mostly listen and be humerous when the situation allows it. I hope she gets better.


----------



## happyman64

I hope she gets better GP.

Your family is in my prayers.


----------



## Tron

happyman64 said:


> I hope she gets better to GP.
> 
> Your family is in my prayers.


Ditto. Good luck today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

Same from me 
Hold your heart with two hands. I hope it goes well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## K.C.

I hope the visit goes well and that she can get better. Stay stromg GP.


----------



## staystrong

Looking forward to your next post GP. Hope all is well.


----------



## GutPunch

Visit is done. Mostly playing with the kids.

Did not get too heavy. She did get a little

emotional. Told me she was messed up in the head.

No Sh!t
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## K.C.

First step for all of us was to see that we were (for me "am" hehe) too in our own way though!

Sounds like it went well.

I admire your restraint fella. To be there with support but not jump into the old patters that must be tempting is huge.


----------



## happyman64

> Told me she was messed up in the head.


Is that a good sign that she realizes how messed up she is???

You keep being you GP.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hang tough, GP. 

One day she will wake up from this fog.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Hang tough, GP.
> 
> One day she will wake up from this fog.


Oh she is aware alright!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

Bigger step than you realize GP! She seems to be taking ownership!!!


----------



## GutPunch

Just got off the phone with overly attractive battle axe.
She was definitely reaching out big time. Definitely asked
for another chance for her to show me she could be a good 
wife and mother. I again told her the D has been postponed 
and to focus on getting better.

Is Conrad still banned cuz I'm fixing to
write my congressman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

Conrad got banned? I didn't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Conrad got banned? I didn't know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes and I'm in withdrawals. No offense to my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I again told her the D has been postponed and to focus on getting better.


:smthumbup: Keep this up.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Just got off the phone with overly attractive battle axe.
> She was definitely reaching out big time. Definitely asked
> for another chance for her to show me she could be a good
> wife and mother. I again told her the D has been postponed
> and to focus on getting better.
> 
> Is Conrad still banned cuz I'm fixing to
> write my congressman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he were allowed back, I think Conrad would agree that no 2x4's necessary today. . Good job!


----------



## staystrong

Looks like she is in a good environment for introspection.

GP, do her doctors give you reports of any kind?


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good line, GP, about the withdrawals. 

Shows you're still among the living.


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Looks like she is in a good environment for introspection.
> 
> GP, do her doctors give you reports of any kind?


Family Counselor calls me about once a week.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-Do not fall into the rugsweep.....it is ok to say you still care but she has a long road ahead. See when you and her "went to battle" you had a clear objective. When you are forced to dig in....you did. But going on the roller coaster was not what you wanted.

Example, during the Civil War, some people were not keen on killing. But for the "Old South" they were stirred up. But on the field...they walk up to a wounded enemy and had opportunity to finish them off. They did not want to....deep down. You would love to end all of this.....it has been around six months. You should not give her the easy out.......and you should not take it either. Listen to the vets here when they say....if you rugsweep....we will see you back here in a year.

No one 100% knows what you want to occur.....but we have a clue. You think......I'm 40, two kids....he!! do you realize how hard it would be to start over??? Completely understandable....you would rather fix what you had, if possible. 

What can you promise her...at this time? GP you know the answers to this.....no need to go any further. Consider Conrad as our #4 hitter and he has a pulled hamstring. Weunz gotta hold it together until he completes his stay on the disabled list.


----------



## GutPunch

I can't promise her anything Chuck.

Rugsweep will not occur. She's on lockdown.

I am just sitting back and watching.

She was on drugs back when she snared me with
Her spider web back in Jan.

We will see Chuck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

Observing is excellent choice. How is she repairing the bond with kids? Her accepting fact she put round white pills above her children and spouse will be a huge reality check. Being a sub par wife will bother her but feeling she put other things above her kids will wake her up at 4AM in a cold sweat. 

I hope she realizes she can impress the he!! out of you by bonding with kids. It would be a stepping stone. The day will come she will comprehend you want, actions not words. It would be nice to be decorating the tree this December and seeing your posts in R. It will be slow....tedious...nerve wrenching....but if it is what both of you want, the battle is already half won.

Patience sux.....but it works.


----------



## GutPunch

She is good with the kids. That's why I never interfered with 
her seeing them despite her problems. 

I am torn emotionally. Part of me just wants to walk away. 
I worry that I will be one of thoose people who die a little inside 
every day trying to R. Then 5 years laer just snap.

I am going to take this real slow.


----------



## VFW

Gut, first let me applaud you for putting your money where your mouth is in dedicating funds to helping this women. Not many many men in your position would do that, when push came to shove. *The most important thing* is that she recovers so that she can again become a viable mother to her children. Regardless of whether you reconcile or not, you are doing what is best for the children (take one attaboy). 

She obviously is stressed and concern what is going to happen in the long run, but she can't concern herself with that right now. You have told her that the divorce is on hold. When she asks you about the relationship, you need to remind her that she needs to keep the most important thing the most important thing. She can't be distracted from that by anything else. If that part of the recovery plan fails, then everything will fail, she has to stay focused. That is more than enough for anybody to accomplish. Be positive, supportive, let her know that all of you need her to get better.


----------



## staystrong

Chuck dishing out the deep thoughts today. 

But where do you see the rugsweeping occurring? It seem like GP will be well-prepared with a full set of conditions for Mrs. GP should they choose to reconcile. 

GP, you got to know if you take her back you are taking back an addict. You'll be part of her support team for the rest of her life and it's likely she could relapse. And that it could involve an affair again. All that being said, I think if you're in it for love and the long haul, then you have to take calculated risks. I for one am hoping for a Hollywood ending here.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I'm with SS on this one. Hollywood ending, all the way. 

Just when the downtrodden hero and the audience believes it's over and you're just about to leave to beat the rush, the surprise ending. Brad Pitt and Jennifer Anniston reunite. 

Just keep doing what you're doing, GP.


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> And that it could involve an affair again. QUOTE]
> 
> FTS!


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> She is good with the kids. That's why I never interfered with
> her seeing them despite her problems.
> 
> I am torn emotionally. Part of me just wants to walk away.
> I worry that I will be one of those people who die a little inside every day trying to R. Then 5 years later just snap.
> 
> I am going to take this real slow.


GP, I think everyone is on the same page with you here in that you are doing the right thing...by her, by your kids and by you. Being slow, steady, calm, observing, supportive emotionally and financially...all of it! You are a rock for her and your kids. Take your pat on the back because you deserve it.

As far as the emotions...you're a smart guy, it won't take you 5 years to figure this out. It took my W less than a year to figure out if she wanted me back or not and she probably has a lot more baggage over trust issues than you. 

I don't know what you have talked about with the family counselor so far, but you have a couple of months to think about what R is going to need to look like for you. Take note of your thoughts, organize them and when the time comes with your W and her counselor(s), you break out the list and lay it out there. There will be no rug-sweeping from her, no relapse, whatever else that you require. Understand that you have the benefit a lot of folks on here do not...your W has an effective built-in support system at the rehab center and she will hopefully have a sponsor when she gets out. In those final weeks those counselors, her sponsor and your W can work together on preparing her for what comes next. 

If you want R but can't stand the thought of staying in perpetual limbo, set a deadline for yourself and give her 3 months...6 months...12 months, whatever you decide. Your D paperwork is already done. Talk to your lawyer, but I think that you can keep it on hold as long as you want and D can be revisited and completed with relative ease at this stage. Also keep in mind, the thing that you were most concerned about previously and that forced your hand to divorce quickly, i.e. her getting custody of the kids, is a NON-ISSUE now! She is a confirmed addict who has gone through withdrawal and rehab twice, she has abandoned her kids, you will have been their custodial parent for 9 months and she has lost her pharmacist license because of her addiction. No judge in their right mind is going to give her custody of your kids over you. It will never happen. And if you still need some peace of mind then make her sign a post-nup specifically addressing that issue (or any other issue you might think of). Bottom line is that R or D will be on your schedule and on your terms. 

I like Hollywood endings too and I am hopeful for you two.


----------



## Awakening2012

Great post, Tron -- agree 100%.


----------



## Tron

staystrong said:


> ... and it's likely she could relapse. And that it could involve an affair again.


Geez SS, your gonna send him off the deep end...or to go beat the garden gnome to a pulp.

GP has been through this before. If she relapses, I am confident he will recognize the signs. Full transparency, no job around prescription meds, etc. It is going to be much easier in the future to monitor what she is up to.


----------



## staystrong

Wonderful post up there Tron!

I agree with all you said but it would be wrong to trivialize her addiction.

You said "There will be no rug-sweeping from her, no relapse, whatever else that you require." 

You can't prevent a relapse 100%. You can create safeguards, but he's going to have two big plates in front of him: addiction recovery and affair recovery. For years...

I think GP's a champion and can handle it and I believe that both he and Mrs. GP could grow from these experiences.


----------



## zillard

SS is right. While relapses are not inevitable, they usually happen. Life is a long time. But MrsGP is hopefully learning tools to prevent them, and GP is learning tools to protect himself and his kids.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-If you feel you can not just walk away......stick around and observe. Feelings can change. But it is all up to you. You keep thinking....I have ten plus years invested. Absolutely normal. Remember.....most marriages can be saved. She is a good mother, per you saying, and at one time....a great wife.

We are like children in more ways than is realized....as noted pleasure seekers. Seeking affirmation from spouse and children are paramount. She knows you still care but the rugsweeping ain't happening. To obtain her job, she has to be quite cerebral, she knows your stance. She may be doing a role reversal and understanding more of what you see.

Either way, I honestly hope things turn out what ever way you want them to. Do not look for a Hollywood ending....that is make believe. As are most of the ones playing the part. Do you really want to live out Sweet Home Alabama? lol i thought not. 

C/D/F @ 50k


----------



## Tron

staystrong said:


> I agree with all you said but it would be wrong to trivialize her addiction.
> 
> You said "There will be no rug-sweeping from her, no relapse, whatever else that you require."
> 
> You can't prevent a relapse 100%. You can create safeguards, but he's going to have two big plates in front of him: addiction recovery and affair recovery. For years...


Definitely did not mean to trivialize it but put it out there more as a potential deal-breaker...and I mentioned to GP a couple of days ago that this R could be particularly difficult...for those very reasons. It's going to require a special kind of H to successfully deal with both. Not impossible. 

And she is going to have a lot to do with it too. She definitely loves him, but who knows where she is going to finally be mentally when she gets done with rehab. Maybe she isn't cut out for R. Maybe she comes out fighting for the M like tears or Rookie4's W. Maybe she can put some of that battle axe mentality to some good use. Just won't know that for a couple of months.


----------



## GutPunch

Thanks guys for the thoughtful comments.

There will be no Officer and a Gentleman moment leaving rehab.

This thread isn't moving to the R thread anytime soon either.

I need to figure out what I want.

I am lucky though as I read most of these threads and most BS do not
get this opportunity as the WAS has 
checked out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crb

I would like to say that I am new to this forum and I am going through a very difficult time right now. My wife of 10 years has in the last month told me she is not happy and has left. I married my wife who had two kids from a previous relationships but was never married to them and a couple years into our marriage we had a beautiful baby boy. Living in a blended family is certainly not easy and I made my fair share of mistakes with her two kids. I always loved them but hindsight I was probably harder on them then I should have been. Their fathers were not in their lives and they look at me as their dad. When we met I was almost graduated from college and worked different jobs and went to school to support my new family. After graduation I got a good job and did all that I could to make my family happy. When my son was born I told my wife she did not have to work and could stay home with our son. All seemed well but over time she became bored and wanted to go back to work now that our son was in school. She dropped some little hints that she was depressed but went to the doctor and they got her on some prozac. All seemed to be well but I noticed that she didn't seem to have me as a priority an longer. She said she loved me and acted like she did but I just knew this isn't the way a wife is suppose to treat her husband. In the last year my step son decided he wanted to go live with his real father and this totally devastated my wife. She basically started blaming me for my step son wanting to live with his dad. My wife sunk into a deeper depression. She started not hanging out with me and would withdraw to our bedroom to watch tv or just fall asleep. Sex was non existent and when we did she basically would just lay there kind of like can you get this over with. I even contemplated maybe asking her for a separation but was just hoping this was a phase. We rarely kissed any longer or even said goodnight, again I was hoping this was just a phase and she would snap out of it. She did tell me about 6 months ago that she needed to see a counselor about her depression. The doctors prescribed her two new drugs that I don't know what they are and she said she is probably bipolar or manic. She was never good at taking her pills and the distance between us grew. I took the family on a vacation with my parents to Florida the week of Valentines day this year and I had a crazy feeling that after this trip she was going to leave me. Sure enough the next day after we got back she told me she can't do this anymore and that she is not happy and just doesn't love me like that any longer. That was my worst fear realized and in an instant my family was turned upside down. My thoughts went directly to my son and how I didn't want this for him, as I grew up in a divorced family, I didn't want that for my son at all and told her I would do whatever to save our marriage. I made a commitment to her for better or worse. She said it was to late and she had just given up. She has since moved in with her grandparents waiting to get her own apartment. My step daughter is completely beside her self and is still leaving with me and my son. She won't speak to her mother because she is so upset that she left me. My step daughter and I have not had the best relationship over the years but I have always loved her and gave her some tough love when she needed it, her father was a meth addict who for most of her live has been in jail. So I have been her father for most of her life. Just like in the first post from Gut Punch my wife too seems to be happy to be a free. Going out and partying and she started smoking cigarettes again and just liking not having any responsibility. This is still so fresh that I can't even tell my 8yr old son that his mother and I will probably be getting a divorce. We are telling him right now that mom is staying with her 93yr old grandparents to help them because her grandpa is truly really sick and she is helping them. I just want to wait until the school year is over before trying to tell him. It absolutely breaks my heart to think about it and brings tears to my eyes. No more family or mom and dad together during his birthdays or christmas. This has been the biggest emotional issue for me. She does however know that at this time my son is better off living with me and his sister and has not demanded him to be with her. My son means the world to me and he is all I have and it would kill me if he wasn't in my life everyday. In the last couple weeks I have gone from being extremely sad, depressed to angry and resentful. I keep catching myself looking out our windows hoping my wife pulls into the driveway and comes into the house and says to me I am sorry I made a huge mistake and I want to work things out. I understand this is not going to happen but I want to so badly try to save our marriage but she just seems to want to move on. I can't express how much I did for my wife and I was for the most part a really good husband. I get the kids ready for school every morning make them breakfast and take them to school. I do dusting and vacuuming and pick up after myself and her and do all the dishes. The only thing my wife really had to do was laundry. I have so many thoughts going around in my head and I am sorry to lay this all out here. In a way it does feel good to just write this. I truly love my wife and would like to work things out but I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. Thank you for letting me vent as I do believe it has made me feel a bit better today at least.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Thanks guys for the thoughtful comments.
> 
> There will be no Officer and a Gentleman moment leaving rehab.
> 
> This thread isn't moving to the R thread anytime soon either.
> 
> I need to figure out what I want.
> 
> I am lucky though as I read most of these threads and most BS do not
> get this opportunity as the WAS has
> checked out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, but we've always suspected which side of that divide you are on.

I have to reiterate.

The physical part of Punch's relationship was one of mutual attraction - his own self-effacing comments notwithstanding.

Women often scoff at the idea that it "comes down to sex"

Well, quite often, it does come down to sex.

I say that unapologetically.

Punch is in that zone where his wife rocks his world - and he hers.

So, it's always been "more likely" that they could end up together.

People often ask how one "can tell" if it will work out.

The most reliable barometer is the temperature in the bedroom.

Yes, all signs indicate she misses it.


----------



## zillard

boom


----------



## Conrad

crb said:


> I would like to say that I am new to this forum and I am going through a very difficult time right now. My wife of 10 years has in the last month told me she is not happy and has left. I married my wife who had two kids from a previous relationships but was never married to them and a couple years into our marriage we had a beautiful baby boy. Living in a blended family is certainly not easy and I made my fair share of mistakes with her two kids. I always loved them but hindsight I was probably harder on them then I should have been. Their fathers were not in their lives and they look at me as their dad. When we met I was almost graduated from college and worked different jobs and went to school to support my new family. After graduation I got a good job and did all that I could to make my family happy. When my son was born I told my wife she did not have to work and could stay home with our son. All seemed well but over time she became bored and wanted to go back to work now that our son was in school. She dropped some little hints that she was depressed but went to the doctor and they got her on some prozac. All seemed to be well but I noticed that she didn't seem to have me as a priority an longer. She said she loved me and acted like she did but I just knew this isn't the way a wife is suppose to treat her husband. In the last year my step son decided he wanted to go live with his real father and this totally devastated my wife. She basically started blaming me for my step son wanting to live with his dad. My wife sunk into a deeper depression. She started not hanging out with me and would withdraw to our bedroom to watch tv or just fall asleep. Sex was non existent and when we did she basically would just lay there kind of like can you get this over with. I even contemplated maybe asking her for a separation but was just hoping this was a phase. We rarely kissed any longer or even said goodnight, again I was hoping this was just a phase and she would snap out of it. She did tell me about 6 months ago that she needed to see a counselor about her depression. The doctors prescribed her two new drugs that I don't know what they are and she said she is probably bipolar or manic. She was never good at taking her pills and the distance between us grew. I took the family on a vacation with my parents to Florida the week of Valentines day this year and I had a crazy feeling that after this trip she was going to leave me. Sure enough the next day after we got back she told me she can't do this anymore and that she is not happy and just doesn't love me like that any longer. That was my worst fear realized and in an instant my family was turned upside down. My thoughts went directly to my son and how I didn't want this for him, as I grew up in a divorced family, I didn't want that for my son at all and told her I would do whatever to save our marriage. I made a commitment to her for better or worse. She said it was to late and she had just given up. She has since moved in with her grandparents waiting to get her own apartment. My step daughter is completely beside her self and is still leaving with me and my son. She won't speak to her mother because she is so upset that she left me. My step daughter and I have not had the best relationship over the years but I have always loved her and gave her some tough love when she needed it, her father was a meth addict who for most of her live has been in jail. So I have been her father for most of her life. Just like in the first post from Gut Punch my wife too seems to be happy to be a free. Going out and partying and she started smoking cigarettes again and just liking not having any responsibility. This is still so fresh that I can't even tell my 8yr old son that his mother and I will probably be getting a divorce. We are telling him right now that mom is staying with her 93yr old grandparents to help them because her grandpa is truly really sick and she is helping them. I just want to wait until the school year is over before trying to tell him. It absolutely breaks my heart to think about it and brings tears to my eyes. No more family or mom and dad together during his birthdays or christmas. This has been the biggest emotional issue for me. She does however know that at this time my son is better off living with me and his sister and has not demanded him to be with her. My son means the world to me and he is all I have and it would kill me if he wasn't in my life everyday. In the last couple weeks I have gone from being extremely sad, depressed to angry and resentful. I keep catching myself looking out our windows hoping my wife pulls into the driveway and comes into the house and says to me I am sorry I made a huge mistake and I want to work things out. I understand this is not going to happen but I want to so badly try to save our marriage but she just seems to want to move on. I can't express how much I did for my wife and I was for the most part a really good husband. I get the kids ready for school every morning make them breakfast and take them to school. I do dusting and vacuuming and pick up after myself and her and do all the dishes. The only thing my wife really had to do was laundry. I have so many thoughts going around in my head and I am sorry to lay this all out here. In a way it does feel good to just right this. I truly love my wife and would like to work things out but I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. Thank you for letting me vent as I do believe it has made me feel a bit better today at least.


crb,

You're in the right place.

Copy your post and start your own thread.

We'll work with you as long as you like.


----------



## crb

Thanks Conrad. I just added a new thread. I apologize for not knowing what to do here.


----------



## Conrad

crb said:


> Thanks Conrad. I just added a new thread. I apologize for not knowing what to do here.


We were all rookies once.

Glad you're here.


----------



## GutPunch

Vacuuming I know where I'm gonna start.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crb

Sorry Gut Punch I didn't mean to get in your thread with my issue. I apologize.


----------



## GutPunch

I'm sorry your here! This place sux. Especially
At first
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crb

Please tell me in time it does get better?


----------



## familyfirst09

I really don't have anything to add, but I've been following along. You must be in an internal hurricane GP. Glad to hear you seem to be holding it together so well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

crb said:


> Please tell me in time it does get better?


Depends on you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

crb said:


> Please tell me in time it does get better?


Absolutely. If that is what you choose.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Vacuuming I know where I'm gonna start.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell him.

Teach it.

Internalize it.

Live it.


----------



## Chuck71

Z, I mentioned you, Group, GP and for him to read your threads. I didn't say mine, no children were involved. So mine does not offer that much help.


----------



## GutPunch

Feeling a little blue this morning. I kind of feel like my
wife has imploded and has nowhere to turn but to me. 
The Garden Gnome has moved on to another lawn.

I don't want to be anyone's last option. I just remember 
those emails and texts. Like a couple of high school kids.
Uggh. It turns my stomach. 

I don't know up from down anymore. I know I've got game as
I have already convinced one of my sons friends 27 year old mom into a FWB situation. However, I quit pursuing it. I couldn't do it. Couldn't deal with the it. I just F'n can't do it.

Can't handle all the dam texting these kids do. What r u doing. Cleaning the house. Im doing dishes. Geez...I can't take it.

I think all this holding out for my wife is some sort of character flaw in me.


----------



## Chuck71

LMAO on the texts. Reason I have yet to text. All this is normal. Take your time.....she will be in there for a couple months. And keep in mind.....she has to win you back. You can't just walk away from a 10plus year marriage and never look back unless, it was ALL a lie. Your old marriage died. But it can have a 2nd one. My parents did (well sorta).

We all know most marriages can be saved. Evaluate where you stand. Read up on the CWI section. I'm sure there are a plethora of people willing to speak with you one on one about their situation. Just take your time.......be in no hurry.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I hear you, GP, so much of what you says rings true to me, same kinds of anguish, the lack of interest in moving on.... But you're doing your best, all you can do.


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> Feeling a little blue this morning. I kind of feel like my
> wife has imploded and has nowhere to turn but to me.
> The Garden Gnome has moved on to another lawn.
> 
> I don't want to be anyone's last option. I just remember
> those emails and texts. Like a couple of high school kids.
> Uggh. It turns my stomach.
> 
> I don't know up from down anymore. I know I've got game as
> I have already convinced one of my sons friends 27 year old mom into a FWB situation. However, I quit pursuing it. I couldn't do it. Couldn't deal with the it. I just F'n can't do it.
> 
> Can't handle all the dam texting these kids do. What r u doing. Cleaning the house. Im doing dishes. Geez...I can't take it.
> 
> I think all this holding out for my wife is some sort of character flaw in me.


Im my humble opinion, it is not a character flaw but a sign of strong character. Who would you rather have in your foxhole, a guy that bailed when times get tough or someone that has your back under all circumstances.

I may be wrong but, an addict ie. your wife, is not the person you married. Addiction is a slippery slope that great people are falling into by the millions. The addict you have seen is not the person you married. Many can never be cured. However, if your wife can be cured, she could once again be the person you fell in love with and be the mother she used to be. Would that person be worth you taking a chance on? There may be other issues that you simply no longer care to deal with. Maybe it would be less risky to try and start a new life with someone else. But there is a lot of risk on that path too.

Be comforted, you have shown the character to hold your family together without your wife. You can do what needs to be done.

Have you seen the Wayward Spouse instructions? I think you should read them and consider if your wife would agree to the conditions that the two of you would have a good chance at R. Here is a link, it is post number 11.

There is no shame in having to walk away from a cheater, otoh there is a reason 80% of the couples that divorced, because of infdelity, wished they had figured out a way to make it work.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...sided-need-perspective-please.html#post534068

As always good luck and prayers

Chap


----------



## staystrong

> Im my humble opinion, it is not a character flaw but a sign of strong character. Who would you rather have in your foxhole, a guy that bailed when times get tough or someone that has your back under all circumstances.


^ What Chap said. 


No one said this would be easy. You're not at the point of no return yet and neither is she.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Feeling a little blue this morning.
> I kind of feel like my wife has imploded and has nowhere to turn but to me.
> The Garden Gnome has moved on to another lawn.
> 
> I don't want to be anyone's last option. I just remember
> those emails and texts. Like a couple of high school kids.
> Uggh. It turns my stomach.
> 
> I don't know up from down anymore. I know I've got game as
> I have already convinced one of my sons friends 27 year old mom into a FWB situation. However, I quit pursuing it. I couldn't do it. Couldn't deal with the it. I just F'n can't do it.
> 
> Can't handle all the dam texting these kids do. What r u doing. Cleaning the house. Im doing dishes. Geez...I can't take it.
> 
> I think all this holding out for my wife is some sort of character flaw in me.


You made a life commitment to her 10 years ago and you haven't moved on. You haven't detached. You still love your wife. That isn't a character flaw. It's just where your heart is right now. Your W never really treated you like crap, she just walked out and is irresponsible. It is harder to detach when you can't get really really angry. In spite of the drugs and mixed up wiring, she still loves you and wants you...that is what you're dealing with. BTW, you're not her backup plan, you're her only plan. She was getting all kinds of attention on Match, so it's not like she doesn't have options. They are all just crap compared to you. 

Are you still losing weight? It sounds like you need to try to focus a little on getting healthy and working out a bit. Have a buddy over for a drink or something. Make it a priority to take a little time (even a few minutes) every day to just step away from the craziness and kids to take your mind off to someplace else and relax. What are you doing for you?


----------



## old timer

tron said:


> what are you doing for you?


this^^^


----------



## staystrong

Maybe I'm living vicariously through you, GP ... yes, stop and think about that ... there are many people who would like to trade places with you. Maybe it's co-dependency, maybe it's love or people holding onto traditional values in an ever-changing world, but you've still got a chance to have everyone around the family table who belongs at the family table. You've got a chance for years down the road to be able to look at your wife with a knowing smile that you made it through some rough shyt. Where you are over the mind movies and affair details because hey that's been worked out and it's now in the past. You have something more solid (and precious) than you might have imagined. The kind of thing that only comes hard-earned.


----------



## happyman64

> I think all this holding out for my wife is some sort of character flaw in me.


Do you think still being in love with your wife is a character flaw?

Some men walk away when their wives cheat.

Some men walk away when their wives are battling an addiction.

There is nothing wrong with that if they do not have the intestinal fortitude to weather that kind of storm. Sometimes a BS needs to leave to save themselves or save what remains of their family.

But every once in a while we see someone that has very deep character and is madly in love with their spouse.

They are not white knights. They are someone that believes that their damaged spouse can be a good person again. They believe that their wayward spouse can be faithful again.

No matter what decision you make GP you have told us your wife is a good Mom. She will be in your life and the lives of your children forever.

It is up to you what other titles you let her keep. Friend, Lover, Wife.

So which is it GP? A flaw in your character or a very deep love for your wife.

I cannot wait to find out.

Love you GP. 

HM64


----------



## GutPunch

Thank you for challenging me ... I feel better from all of your comments.

I just had a I don't want to be a doormat moment this morning. 

50,000 ft and soaring

2 more months to be patient and watch


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> I just had a I don't want to be a doormat moment this morning.


GP, I AM SURE EVERYONE HERE WILL CONCUR, BUT NOT BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION ARE YOU A DOORMAT! 

Get out and enjoy the weather, it is fantastic out right now. Make some plans for Easter weekend, get something going to occupy your time and your mind. It will be good for you.


----------



## Awakening2012

happyman64 said:


> Some men walk away when their wives are battling an addiction.
> 
> But every once in a while we see someone that has very deep character and is madly in love with their spouse.
> 
> They are not white knights. They are someone that believes that their damaged spouse can be a good person again.


Yes, indeed, many men walk on an addicted spouse, even when they recover -- why do you think the rooms of Al-Anon are filled with far more women than men? GP, I know you are justifiably wary and taking it slowly and prudently, but the way you have stood by her so far makes you my HERO! And I am among those hoping my H turns out to be among the latter, in terms of opening his heart to me again and giving me a chance to win back his trust.

I am rooting for you and your family to have a happy, healthy and enduring new beginning! :smthumbup:

Cheers, - A12


----------



## GutPunch

Codependency rearing it's ugly self. Yesterday was the
first time in over three weeks where she has not called
me. Why does this bother me? I've got to figure out a way
to overcome these kind of thoughts and useless anxiety.

She probably would like me to call her for a change. 
Since I've only called once since she's been there. I am always questioning my toughness.

Fitness test? I'm crazy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Codependency rearing it's ugly self. Yesterday was the
> first time in over three weeks where she has not called
> me. Why does this bother me? I've got to figure out a way
> to overcome these kind of thoughts and useless anxiety.
> 
> She probably would like me to call her for a change.
> Since I've only called once since she's been there. I am always questioning my toughness.
> 
> Fitness test? I'm crazy!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's safe to call her 2x for every 3x she calls you.


----------



## happyman64

And Gut,

With the type of treatment your wife is going through for her substance abuse it is safe to assume she has her own fitness tests going on a daily basis.

Call her.

There is no show of codependence or weakness if you are concerned for her well being.


----------



## Chaparral

And she could use the support. She is bound tobe lonely. She is bound to have bad/hopeless days, too.


----------



## Chuck71

in rehab....you have zero defense mechanisms. the DM is what got them there. fight or flight. simply ask how treatment is


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

GP I totally feel like we are in the same boat with regard to our Ws knowing they really ruined a good thing and us being their only hope right now. Today I've considered looking for a FWB but I don't think I could bring myself to do it. I think its the anger talking wanting to do it just to make her see how it feels. I know in my heart though I could not go through with something like that. 

Is it a sign of weakness? How in the world do I still have any feelings for WS? I know right now I have no desire for R. I don't know how long that feeling will last but I'm waiting it out like you. 

I know a lot of WS just up and leave not giving any chance for R. I guess in that regard we are lucky? No that's not the right word. Ugh Does your stomach churn with emotions like mine does? 

Want to hear something sick and absurd? I actually feel a little better when she is here with me. Not that it makes me desire R. I guess its the presence of this person I've known for 18 years. There must be some sort of cosmic connection that I just can't explain (definitely not calling it love). I guess I have not fully gotten over her yet.


----------



## Chuck71

Not sick nor absurd at all. Fifteen years here but it is over. I still love the person she was. If she was now what she was then....yes I would consider R greatly. It was magical. Magic is gone though. I was not perfect, she thought she was. But once history was written, she still wants to see me. Wonder why?

No kids, I got off easy. FWB....never works. My second true love and my first high school love eventually became friends WB.....did I care...of course. Was it the same? Not in any way. Sex was great but emotionless afterwards. Empty.....as if should I been out with the guys closing a bar at 3AM


----------



## GutPunch

Hurt Odyssey_DK HL said:


> GP I totally feel like we are in the same boat with regard to our Ws knowing they really ruined a good thing and us being their only hope right now.
> 
> I will not be a white knight and neither should you.
> 
> Today I've considered looking for a FWB but I don't think I could bring myself to do it. I think its the anger talking wanting to do it just to make her see how it feels. I know in my heart though I could not go through with something like that.
> 
> I wasn't looking it literally fell into my lap. Now I'm scared to get on facebook. Don't do it!
> 
> Is it a sign of weakness? How in the world do I still have any feelings for WS? I know right now I have no desire for R. I don't know how long that feeling will last but I'm waiting it out like you.
> 
> I don't believe you and you better not rugsweep as I did the first time. Follow Conrad's instructions. Cool Firm Dispassionate
> 
> I know a lot of WS just up and leave not giving any chance for R. I guess in that regard we are lucky? No that's not the right word. Ugh Does your stomach churn with emotions like mine does?
> 
> Lucky....No they are lucky. Limbo is painful. I bet R is painful too.
> 
> Want to hear something sick and absurd? I actually feel a little better when she is here with me. Not that it makes me desire R. I guess its the presence of this person I've known for 18 years. There must be some sort of cosmic connection that I just can't explain (definitely not calling it love). I guess I have not fully gotten over her yet.


It's natural to not want change. She is what you know. I am in the same boat.


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> Not sick nor absurd at all. Fifteen years here but it is over. I still love the person she was. If she was now what she was then....yes I would consider R greatly. It was magical. Magic is gone though. I was not perfect, she thought she was. But once history was written, she still wants to see me. Wonder why?
> 
> No kids, I got off easy. FWB....never works. My second true love and my first high school love eventually became friends WB.....did I care...of course. Was it the same? Not in any way. Sex was great but emotionless afterwards. Empty.....as if should I been out with the guys closing a bar at 3AM


I've always thought FWB would work better with a bang "before" you went out.

Then there's no pressure the rest of the night.

If something happens out, that's great too.

But, I'm just a guy.


----------



## old timer

Guess I'm wired different. FWB suits me just fine. 

And I'll take the bang before or after, Conrad. 

Actually, before AND after works, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

old timer said:


> Guess I'm wired different. FWB suits me just fine.
> 
> And I'll take the bang before or after, Conrad.
> 
> Actually, before AND after works, too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Old Timer,

"After" will cramp your style that evening.

All a matter of preference.


----------



## staystrong

Gut, you're doing great. Try not to be too rigid with The Rules or too hard on yourself. Were you surprised when Conrad said call her 2x for her every 3x? Were you thinking you should not call her at all because that would be a sign of weakness?


----------



## GutPunch

Don't tell me what I'm thinking! OK your right. I guess I am just trying to make sure that she wants ME and she knows what she wants. I definitely do not want to appear weak.

I guess I am waiting for the moment where she truly lets me know how she feels.


----------



## staystrong

We're all waiting for that moment with you, GP.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hollywood ending.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Don't tell me what I'm thinking! OK your right. I guess I am just trying to make sure that she wants ME and she knows what she wants. I definitely do not want to appear weak.


Totally understandable and is how most if not all of us men on here feel.



GutPunch said:


> I guess I am waiting for the moment where she truly lets me know how she feels.


Why not ask her the next time you talk? Then do it again in a couple of weeks and couple of weeks after that...and see if the story stays the same or changes.


----------



## GutPunch

People....I just have doubts. I definitely have some large trust obstacles to overcome. I cannot escape them. She has not had a drop to her hands and knees moment. I fear I will get sh!t on again. I believe she would take the garden gnome over me if she could. 

My mind just constantly thinks she is calling other dudes while she is in rehab. I wouldn't wish this stuff on anybody.

How do I get rid of this anxiety robbing me of my energy. I used to be so full of life and energy.


----------



## familyfirst09

What have you done for yourself since she entered rehab? Are you working out? Meditating? Getting out on your own time?
I don't wish you a hollywood ending, they divorce every 2 days. If you don't trust her yet, just give it time. She is not going anywhere and there is no rush. Just stay at 50k feet like you said. Let her come to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

Her work to prove that she can be trustworthy in a relationship comes after rehab - should she choose that path. 

Meanwhile you have time to work on letting go and becoming comfortable with yourself. So that you can reach a point where trust and forgiveness are possible.


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> What have you done for yourself since she entered rehab? Are you working out? Meditating? Getting out on your own time?
> I don't wish you a hollywood ending, they divorce every 2 days. If you don't trust her yet, just give it time. She is not going anywhere and there is no rush. Just stay at 50k feet like you said. Let her come to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Anxiety and time constraints have robbed most of my me time. 

I used to work out 6 days a week. I haven't in 3 weeks. I feel weak.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> Her work to prove that she can be trustworthy in a relationship comes after rehab - should she choose that path.
> 
> Agree
> 
> Meanwhile you have time to work on letting go and becoming comfortable with yourself. So that you can reach a point where trust and forgiveness are possible.
> 
> Difficult for me


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> Anxiety and time constraints have robbed most of my me time.
> 
> I used to work out 6 days a week. I haven't in 3. I feel weak.


Well I completely understand that. But working out will help relieve some of that anxiety. Take 5 minutes before bed to meditate. Try to slip it in whenever you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Try to slip it in whenever you can.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She's in rehab. Isn't that rugsweeping? lol


----------



## familyfirst09

Ha, you really are my brotha from a differnet motha...I had the same thought when I wrote it 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> People....I just have doubts. I definitely have some large trust obstacles to overcome. I cannot escape them. She has not had a drop to her hands and knees moment. I fear I will get sh!t on again.


Also totally understandable and actually very healthy for you to feel this way. Look, by asking her how she feels about everything, you can get a sense for where she is at mentally. Nothing more. You are not committing to anything. And if she asks you the same, you give her the same canned answer: "we can talk about that later, you need to focus on you and getting better." Bottom line is that you are going to need information in order to make an intelligent decision that you can live with and won't regret.

I thought that she pretty much dumped the garden gnome less than a week into that deal. As far as calling other guys...you can ask her that too. I guess she could always lie about it. I know that the rehab counselors are going to push that she not engage in any new relationships for a while (1 year or so). Recovering addicts need to focus on themselves and recovery, not new romantic relationships... If she is taking this seriously she will follow the steps.


----------



## zillard

Tron said:


> Also totally understandable and actually very healthy for you to feel this way. Look, by asking her how she feels about everything, you can get a sense for where she is at mentally. Nothing more. You are not committing to anything. And if she asks you the same, you give her the same canned answer: "we can talk about that later, you need to focus on you and getting better." Bottom line is that you are going to need information in order to make an intelligent decision that you can live with and won't regret.
> 
> I thought that she pretty much dumped the garden gnome less than a week into that deal. As far as calling other guys...you can ask her that too. I guess she could always lie about it. I know that the rehab counselors are going to push that she not engage in any new relationships for a while (1 year or so). Recovering addicts need to focus on themselves and recovery, not new romantic relationships... If she is taking this seriously she will follow the steps.


Divorce is already on hold though. Asking her how she feels about it does distract from her and her recovery.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Anxiety and time constraints have robbed most of my me time.
> 
> I used to work out 6 days a week. I haven't in 3 weeks. I feel weak.


Dislike


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Dislike


Me too C. I lifted three days a week. Played
Ball three days a week. 

No more time. Kids and work now
are all consuming. Ball is done as two hour lunches
are not feasible anymore. I need to start lifting
again.

All that anxiety for not calling was unwarranted. Power out at facility and
no phones. See the problem with codependency.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> All that anxiety for not calling was unwarranted. Power out at facility and
> no phones. See the problem with codependency.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep. The unnecessary whatifs. Worrying about things we can't control. Stressing about things we can't fix anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Me too C. I lifted three days a week. Played
> Ball three days a week.
> 
> No more time. Kids and work now
> are all consuming. Ball is done as two hour lunches
> are not feasible anymore. I need to start lifting
> again.
> 
> All that anxiety for not calling was unwarranted. Power out at facility and
> no phones. See the problem with codependency.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You still have time for therapy?

Like I've said, "giving back" 2/3 won't hurt a bit.

And, it won't be seen as overdoing it.


----------



## GutPunch

Still in therapy. Just monthly now Preparing for
the financial blow that has hit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Still in therapy. Just monthly now Preparing for
> the financial blow that has hit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you decide to pay for it?

It was supposed to come from the 401k


----------



## GutPunch

I paid some bit only b/c 401k check
isn't here yet. I lost health insurance 
and child support. Those two are $2800/month
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I paid some bit only b/c 401k check
> isn't here yet. I lost health insurance
> and child support. Those two are $2800/month
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok - talk to us more.

I realize this is a really tough time.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> All that anxiety for not calling was unwarranted. Power out at facility and
> no phones. See the problem with codependency.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep....she's right here by me, Gut. Remember I'm just a call away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Yep....she's right here by me, Gut. Remember I'm just a call away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just got off phone with her. I knew I heard some man in
the background. I guess your OK.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Just got off phone with her. I knew I heard some man in
> the background. I guess your OK.


You know what I mean, ditwad


----------



## GutPunch

Well my business just landed a seven story hotel in Birmingham. We have really took off since the start of the new year. I know it's a blessing and a long time coming but it will be definitely be stressful on top of the personal life drama and single parenthood and the new one money problems. Job will help with the money problems long term.

Wife will get an 8 hour pass with us tomorrow. Think we will take the kids to the zoo or the science center.


----------



## happyman64

Just enjoy the day as a family.

And do not let her disappear....


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good for you on your business, Gut. I know times have been tough.

If you go to the zoo, my money is on her saying, look at that poor bear locked up in that cage, no freedom, just like me....


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> And do not let her disappear....
> 
> 
> 
> LOL....Honey why were you in the bathroom 45 minutes?


----------



## old timer

Gut - is the hotel new construction or rehab?


----------



## GutPunch

New Construction downtown
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Anyone think GutPunch should go ahead with the divorce once she gets out ? I certainly think he should regardless. She can be a good mother regardless of whether they are married or not. Gut can date her again once she shows enough changes for thee better.

Gut, have you found out the true extent of her addiction ? How frequent and serious it was ? And the reasons on why she was fired from her job ? Or did you get some vague details ?


----------



## happyman64

warlock07 said:


> Anyone think GutPunch should go ahead with the divorce once she gets out ? I certainly think he should regardless. She can be a good mother regardless of whether they are married or not. Gut can date her again once she shows enough changes for thee better.
> 
> Gut, have you found out the true extent of her addiction ? How frequent and serious it was ? And the reasons on why she was fired from her job ? Or did you get some vague details ?


No. I think GP should just hold off until treatment is complete even if he wants to D her.

Let her get her feet under her.

Narcotics addiction can be triggered by different events. Divorce might likely cause that to happen.

I would rather see the mother of my children be healthy for my kids. That. Would be more important than making her my ex.

Again, she needs to be healthy and she needs to have healthy boundaries in place when she gets out.

But that is just my opinion.

HM64


----------



## staystrong

It's too early to say. She's slated to be there 90 days.


----------



## zillard

If my x had gone into an inpatient program like the ic and I suggested before the divorce, I would have put it on hold and reevaluated afterward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012

staystrong said:


> It's too early to say. She's slated to be there 90 days.


Only GP can make that call, but I don't think dumping her right out of treatment is fair or helpful for giving a chance to see if she is serious about turning herself around. You would be justified not staying with her only out of duty or loyalty if you see that she is not getting it together -- if it becomes apparent you have to cut your losses, but giving her a chance is the honorable thing to do. I am biased in my view, because my H did not stand by me after I got better -- so I have utmost respect for the way GP has not abandoned her without first seeing if the potential is there for rebuilding.

Best, A12


----------



## GutPunch

A Letter From My WS

GP,
I am writing you this letter to try and tell you how I feel. I know I am not the best at expressing myself, so I am hoping I can better express myself in a letter. First of all, I want to tell you how truly sorry I am for hurting you. I know right now these are just empty words, but I hope with time I can show you through my actions how remorseful I am. 

My addiction has caused me to act in ways that go completely against all of my morals and values. I have lied, cheated, and stole. I am by no means making any excuses for my actions. I am just trying to let you in to my sick mind. I have been sick for a long time, and felt I completely lost my way for a long time. 

I want to make amends to you and our children. The word amend means to change and I am working very hard to do just that. I can feel some changes within start to take place and I hope at the end of this journey I can be a person that you, myself, and the children can be proud of.

Now that I am in a safe place, I can finally see just how destructive the path I was on. I was doing anything to not feel what I was feeling. I am working hard every day to dig deep into my issues that led to my addiction. I have an excellent counselor who is holding my feet to the fire and forcing me to look at things that are very uncomfortable for me. I hate it at the moment, but I know it is a catalyst for change. That's what I want more than anything is to change. 

I have truly loved talking with you everyday and reconnecting with you. I miss that feeling terribly. Right now, I know what I want to happen after this, but I'm trying desperately not to manipulate or control you. I am also trying not to make any major decisions while my brain is still healing. I also know 50% of that decision depends on you and what you want.

I have a lot of issues to work through, but we also have a lot of issues to work on together. Just like you feel I don't open up to you, I feel the same about you. I need some verbal affirmations from you too. There were a lot of times I felt I was walking on egg shells around you. I never felt I measured up to your high expectations. I felt our marriage became a type of business agreement. I kept having horrible visions of sending D3 off to collegeand us shaking hands and saying, "Well it was a pleasure doing business with you. See you around." That killed me inside.

I asked you repeatedly to get a babysitter so we could go out and your response was always I don't want to pay the money for someone else to watch our kids. That's our job. That really made me shut down and feel unimportant. When I approached you about counseling you said "Why? I never did anything wrong." I felt so defeated after that. Like why should I even try. I'm not telling you these things to hurt your feelings or deflect attention from my actions to yours. I'm telling you these because I want things to change.

I want our relationship to be closer and stronger than it ever has been. Whatever form that relationship decides to take, I know if we both work hard we will be so much happier and connected. I think we owe this to ourselves and our children to leave no stone unturned. I'm willing. Are you?

Love Mrs. GP


----------



## ReGroup

GP!

That's awesome! Their needs to be at least one happy ending on this damn forum.

I know their is much work to do - but hell, that's a positive sign if I ever saw one.

Stay at 50K... know that I am excited about the possibilities.

You are doing awesome brother. Keep it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

The Rebuttal by GP (She will never see)

Do you think maybe the walking on egg shells and the distance had anything to do with the drugs? I do. We were happy before. Do you think lying every day to your husband didn't create a little distance between us. You were stoned for a couple of years, of course we lost our connection and no you were not living up to my expectations.

...And the MC was suggested after my heart was ripped out again with a false R. Turns out you were getting high then too. 

Love GP


----------



## Chaparral

I think as in most case in these forums there was missed communications long before you think there was. 

The babysitter remark really rang a chord with me for example.

After you had kids ,did you still have date night every week, did you stop romancing your wife. It really could be that simple.


----------



## staystrong

GP,

This is a great start. 

By the sound of it, a therapist probably helped her craft that letter.

How will you respond to it on your next call?


----------



## zillard

This is a great letter but would be better without paragraph 6 & 7. 

Apology with remorse is nice.
Even better with no needs or blame.


----------



## Tron

I thought she might just have a long talk with you, but this letter is so much better. And kind of speeds up the process a bit.




zillard said:


> This is a great letter but would be better without paragraph 6 & 7.
> 
> Apology with remorse is nice.
> Even better with no needs or blame.


Z, While my initial impression was the same, that it would have been better without paragraph 6 or 7, I reread it twice and think the jist of it is that she is sorry, she is remorseful and she is preparing for some heavy lifting. She would like some affirmation and support from GP and has spelled out for him what she would like for that to look like. Take out the couple of gripes at the end and she has given him her roadmap:

1. I need some verbal support and affirmation from you
2. I want to be more than just a mom, I want to be your wife/GF, I need alone time with you, take me out on a date once in a while


GP, 

If she is being 100% honest here, what she is asking of you sounds pretty reasonable. And frankly not particularly unusual. My W desires the same and she didn't get much of it during the first 3 or so years after each child was born. Babies and toddlers are fun sometimes, but they can suck the life out of a marriage. For someone with her issues it may have been doubly difficult, especially if you weren't as supportive as you say you were. 

Item #2 should be pretty easy, but can you deliver on #1? Because your response indicates that this one is where you may have issues. 

Either way, you have an opportunity and invitation now to respond in kind with your letter and list of demands. Take your time with it and get it right. 

Do you want to attempt R with her?


----------



## happyman64

So GP are you going to write a real response? 

We could all critique her letter to you till we die but I hope you put forth a well thought out response......


----------



## oregonmom

Hi GP

I hope you don't mind me jumping in on page 89, but I just read your thread and it really spoke to me.

My H is also a pill addict, been clean a year now and in AA/NA, had an affair to get his pills this last time, first went to rehab 6 years ago, lots of relapses since, 5 yo son.

First off, you are doing a great job with your W. I admire your strength and resolve. I know how hard it is to find time for yourself, but it is really, really important to do. It is easy to keep skipping time for yourself once it happens that first time. There are a few things I do each week that are scheduled in pen. I feel I MUST do those things in order to be the best I can be for my son, and all that other stuff I need to do can get done around those times. When I skip them, I have noticed my anxiety, stress, irritability, goes thru the roof. I always said I didn't have the time, but reality was I wasn't looking very hard. Even if it is just an hour a few nights a week working out at home after the kids are asleep, make yourself do it. I like to think of it as a business meeting with my most important client 

I have to agree with staystrong and zillard on the letter. It sounds crafted with the help of a therapist or councilor at the rehab. It is a very common activity done with patients. That doesn't mean it is not sincere tho. That is your call to make, you know her better than anyone here. It seems like an amends letter...maybe I missed it but do you know if she is actively doing 12 step work while there? I don't want to get all 12 step nazi on this, but if she is doing her 9th step, she should not be including any of your faults or short comings while she is doing it. It is VERY clear in the big book not to cast any blame even if the other person has dirty hands. It is supposed to be about taking responsibility for your own actions regardless of outside circumstances. 

Your response she will never see is exactly the way I feel...my H had an OW long before the real OW showed up, drugs. I did not cause him to use just like I didn't cause him to cheat. What she chooses to do is her choice alone. Of course things affect someone's choice to use or have an affair, but there should be no rationalization or placing blame. I don't think those few paragraphs would be acceptable from a WW with no addiction apologizing for an affair, and I think most posters here would agree. I honestly don't think there is a difference. It's great for her to express things she needs from you to make your marriage better, but that seemed much too close to the blame game IMHO.

Sorry I went off on a tangent, hit a little close to home. I really am a nice, sweet woman 

All the best to you and your kids. You are a great dad, don't forget it!


----------



## K.C.

That is huge GP. Seems like an honest appraisal of how she is seeing things. The shared blame bit did read a bit as wtf stop casting about..

But if she has struggled to express this sort if stuff before it could in fact be as much a breakthrough for her as the rest?

I have no idea how you respond to a letter like that but one thing you do have is time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. 

I am clueless on how to respond. 

I did not like the list of grievances at all. Oregon Mom stated it well.

However, she has to tell her self something so she can look in a mirror. 

I don't think writing a letter with a list of demands for R is the way to go right now. I will just tell her that I appreciate the letter and that I believe in her and want her to focus all of her energy into getting better. 

I was not perfect. To this day I wish I had more time with my kids. However, she checked out on me way before we started having problems. Chapp...you are right I did stop romancing her. A toddler and a baby are demanding. I stopped spending time with her. She was checked out emotionally. The drugs were truly the OM. I started working out and playing basketball every day to fill the void.


----------



## GutPunch

oregonmom said:


> I have to agree with staystrong and zillard on the letter. It sounds crafted with the help of a therapist or councilor at the rehab. It is a very common activity done with patients. That doesn't mean it is not sincere tho. That is your call to make, you know her better than anyone here. It seems like an amends letter...maybe I missed it but do you know if she is actively doing 12 step work while there? I don't want to get all 12 step nazi on this, but if she is doing her 9th step, she should not be including any of your faults or short comings while she is doing it. It is VERY clear in the big book not to cast any blame even if the other person has dirty hands. It is supposed to be about taking responsibility for your own actions regardless of outside circumstances.
> 
> She just finished step one
> 
> Your response she will never see is exactly the way I feel...my H had an OW long before the real OW showed up, drugs. I did not cause him to use just like I didn't cause him to cheat. What she chooses to do is her choice alone. Of course things affect someone's choice to use or have an affair, but there should be no rationalization or placing blame. I don't think those few paragraphs would be acceptable from a WW with no addiction apologizing for an affair, and I think most posters here would agree. I honestly don't think there is a difference. It's great for her to express things she needs from you to make your marriage better, but that seemed much too close to the blame game IMHO.
> 
> I agree totally
> 
> Sorry I went off on a tangent, hit a little close to home. I really am a nice, sweet woman
> 
> All the best to you and your kids. You are a great dad, don't forget it!


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> I think as in most case in these forums there was missed communications long before you think there was.
> 
> The babysitter remark really rang a chord with me for example.
> 
> After you had kids ,did you still have date night every week, did you stop romancing your wife. It really could be that simple.



Yes you are correct. However, her version isn't 100% true. We did hire a babysitter a few times. My contention was we need to find someone we trust. She would ask to get one and I would say line it up and she would drop it.


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> The Rebuttal by GP (She will never see)
> 
> Do you think maybe the walking on egg shells and the distance had anything to do with the drugs? I do. We were happy before. Do you think lying every day to your husband didn't create a little distance between us. You were stoned for a couple of years, of course we lost our connection and no you were not living up to my expectations.
> 
> ...And the MC was suggested after my heart was ripped out again with a false R. Turns out you were getting high then too.
> 
> Love GP


Hi GP - It makes sense you would feel this way. And there will be time for this to come out. You should have the opportunity to get all your feelings out about how her addiction negatively affected you. She should acknowledge (and seemed to do so?) that she is solely responsible for her behavior -- it cannot be blamed on anything going on with you or the marriage. It is very early on in her brand new recovery process to be doing a full fledged 9th step -- she'll need to focus on steps 1-3 for at least the 1st year, most AA/NA sponsors would tell their sponsees. But the letter is a good initial attempt to convey her remorse for the way her addiction and related behaviors have harmed you, and her desire to make amends. Actual making of amends can only happen over time by her showing you that she will continue to actively work a program of recovery and stay on the clean and sober path. 

It may have been premature for her to raise the concerns she had about what wasn't working for her in the marriage -- could come across as blame shifting. Also asking if you are willing to "work" too. My H had so much anger, any mention that he should have to "work" rubbed him the wrong way -- like "this is YOUR problem, what does it have to do with me?!". You will have time to sort these things out later. You don't have to tackle all the issues at once -- take it in baby steps.

It is your call, but I am a big believer in taking things a day at a time. So you decide a day at a time -- based on how things go -- whether to stick with this, whether to let her continue to rebuild the trust. I would think the counselor would want you to have the opportunity to express your fears and concerns to her -- and to have a game plan as to boundaries as well as consequences if she does not hold up her end. But if you can (and I know anger and resentment may make it hard) it will help her immensely to hear some words of assurance and affirmation: "I am glad you are getting help and working on yourself," "It may take some time for me to be able to trust you again, but I will support your recovery as long as you continue to do the work," etc...

When she gets out, a key sign of sincerity about recovery will be if she takes it on herself to get a sponsor and regularly attend 12 step meetings, study the literature, start living the program of recovery by applying the principles in her life (her coping skills, her manner of relating to others, her attitudes and actions).

It is a big bold journey that holds so much potential for healing. I am praying for you guys!

Hugs, - A12


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> . I will just tell her that I appreciate the letter and that I believe in her and want her to focus all of her energy into getting better


Perfect!

Hugs, A12


----------



## Conrad

Punch,

For what it's worth, I think her issues have some validity.

A man who is focused on being attractive to his woman calls the babysitter and sets up the night on the town.

He then tells her she's going.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Punch,
> 
> For what it's worth, I think her issues have some validity.
> 
> A man who is focused on being attractive to his woman calls the babysitter and sets up the night on the town.
> 
> He then tells her she's going.


Agreed

Something I have learned on TAM and will pass to my son.

What is your take on the letter and how I should respond.


----------



## GutPunch

In my defense, my Mom is a recluse and my Father is an alcoholic. 

I grew up in an environment where my Mom and Dad didn't even vacation together. I can't even remember a family vacation. I am what I know. My mom never required this sort of validation. 

Probably why I have had lots of two year relationships that fizzle out prior to the wife.


----------



## Awakening2012

Re: Conrad's comment -- agree: For a femme woman who is grounded in her Yin, is nothing hotter than a Yang man with a plan, who cherishes his woman's feelings but leads the waltz like the lion king that he is, and doesn't let her step on his toes


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> In my defense, my Mom is a recluse and my Father is an alcoholic.
> 
> I grew up in an environment where my Mom and Dad didn't even vacation together. I can't even remember a family vacation. I am what I know. My mom never required this sort of validation.
> 
> Probably why I have had lots of two year relationships that fizzle out prior to the wife.


GP - Good on you, starting to take a look at this stuff! Applauding your candor, nothing to defend. It is not that you have done anything wrong or bad, you have just been programmed to an extent (as we all have) by your conditioning. Through this sort of self awareness and mutual compassion, you'll both start to live more mindfully and intentionally, build on your strengths and ditch the things that aren't working  Enjoy the rest of your weekend!

Warmly, Kim


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> In my defense, my Mom is a recluse and my Father is an alcoholic.
> 
> I grew up in an environment where my Mom and Dad didn't even vacation together. I can't even remember a family vacation. I am what I know. My mom never required this sort of validation.
> 
> Probably why I have had lots of two year relationships that fizzle out prior to the wife.


Well GP, it seems you already see this as something within you that you know you need to work on. And she is telling you she needs that validation. Most women do. 

As far as your response, I think you can do better than a short and sweet "I believe in you". It sounds too much like the businessman she was talking about. If you are ready to step up to Conrad's 2/3, you can do more. You can help build her up without committing yourself. Acknowledge what specifically she has done well to ID about herself in the letter, compliment her and acknowledge that you aren't perfect and you understand that those are issues you need to work on. If you do that then hopefully she wont mention it again in any future correspondence.


----------



## Conrad

Punch,

I want you to think about her take on you turning down counseling.

She saw you angling for the victim seat - subconsciously.

It's a turn-off no matter how you package it.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Punch,
> 
> I want you to think about her take on you turning down counseling.
> 
> She saw you angling for the victim seat - subconsciously.
> 
> It's a turn-off no matter how you package it.


Ouch! I did just get gut punch number two that week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mavash.

GutPunch said:


> Ouch! I did just get gut punch number two that week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not so fast. I'm all to familiar with the way women like her think and how men like you think and I read this whole thread. Yes you likely both contributed to the breakdown of the marriage however please don't forget SHE chose OM over you. She chose drugs over you. She chose fun over being a mother. She walked away from you and your kids to get her next fix. She's now lost her job, is in rehab, and you're supposed to feel bad because you didn't plan enough dates for her or didn't react immediately to her request for MC?

Sorry not buying it. I applaud you for supporting her while she heals but please don't forget what happened. There is no excuse for her behavior and don't let anyone let you lose sight of that.


----------



## GutPunch

Mavash. said:


> Not so fast. I'm all to familiar with the way women like her think and how men like you think and I read this whole thread. Yes you likely both contributed to the breakdown of the marriage however please don't forget SHE chose OM over you. She chose drugs over you. She chose fun over being a mother. She walked away from you and your kids to get her next fix. She's now lost her job, is in rehab, and you're supposed to feel bad because you didn't plan enough dates for her or didn't react immediately to her request for MC?
> 
> Sorry not buying it. I applaud you for supporting her while she heals but please don't forget what happened. There is no excuse for her behavior and don't let anyone let you lose sight of that.


I would like to argue with you ... but alas I cannot.


----------



## Conrad

Mavash. said:


> Not so fast. I'm all to familiar with the way women like her think and how men like you think and I read this whole thread. Yes you likely both contributed to the breakdown of the marriage however please don't forget SHE chose OM over you. She chose drugs over you. She chose fun over being a mother. She walked away from you and your kids to get her next fix. She's now lost her job, is in rehab, and you're supposed to feel bad because you didn't plan enough dates for her or didn't react immediately to her request for MC?
> 
> Sorry not buying it. I applaud you for supporting her while she heals but please don't forget what happened. There is no excuse for her behavior and don't let anyone let you lose sight of that.


I'm in total agreement with this.

BUT... if he's to choose reconciliation, Punch has to be aware enough to bring his A game everyday to the relationship.

And, that would include setting up the babysitter and romancing her occasionally.

It's easy to worry about cost when we're trying to climb the ladders. Yet, we tend to lose touch with each other.

Life really is difficult for those that are sleepwalking.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I would like to argue with you ... but alas I cannot.


Just because I'm advising you to up your sex rank with her doesn't mean she's no responsible for some despicable behavior.

And, your pattern has been to take it all on you.

Read the War Stories thread.

It's for you now.


----------



## Mavash.

GutPunch said:


> I would like to argue with you ... but alas I cannot.


I was an awful wife and I own that. Majority of our problems were caused by me. He however isn't completely blameless. He wasn't exactly the model husband and I believe he contributed to my depression if not caused it. I'm mindful however that the damage I did to him was worse than what he did to me. He had self control and I didn't. That alone put him ahead of me. I consider that each and every time I bring up something he does that I don't like. I also worked hard to earn his trust back before I expected him to give back. No I didn't cheat but I was plenty mean.

Your wife needs to have this mindset. No free passes.


----------



## GutPunch

Any psycho girls wanna hang out? 

Just text me 5000 times and let me know!

Jeez.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Any psycho girls wanna hang out?
> 
> Just text me 5000 times and let me know!
> 
> Jeez.


Need to unburden yourself Punch?


----------



## GutPunch

Seems like when you don't answer the first thousand texts you would get the point. I'm fixing to give this girl a job and let her head up the sales department.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Seems like when you don't answer the first thousand texts you would get the point. I'm fixing to give this girl a job and let her head up the sales department.


You might want to re-think that.


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

Mavash. said:


> Not so fast. I'm all to familiar with the way women like her think and how men like you think and I read this whole thread. Yes you likely both contributed to the breakdown of the marriage however please don't forget SHE chose OM over you. She chose drugs over you. She chose fun over being a mother. She walked away from you and your kids to get her next fix. She's now lost her job, is in rehab, and you're supposed to feel bad because you didn't plan enough dates for her or didn't react immediately to her request for MC?
> 
> Sorry not buying it. I applaud you for supporting her while she heals but please don't forget what happened. There is no excuse for her behavior and don't let anyone let you lose sight of that.



Gut,
I don't buy it either. My W has mentioned from time to time about what I did during the M, things I said during disagreements, as if to excuse her behavior. I will not accept an ounce of responsibility for what she did during S (You should not either). It was her choice.


----------



## staystrong

Her point about the lack of romance is certainly valid, but it shouldn't be in the Big Apology letter.

I guess he should think of it as the first draft. She's still whittling herself down.


----------



## GutPunch

The beauty is I can sit back and do nothing. 

Understand, it must be difficult to look in the mirror and take all the blame. She has to feel good about something. 

We shall see. The big question for me is can she stay clean?


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> The beauty is I can sit back and do nothing.
> 
> Understand, it must be difficult to look in the mirror and take all the blame. She has to feel good about something.
> 
> We shall see. The big question for me is can she stay clean?


or... could you handle it again if she does not. 

You are never going to know if she will stay clean. Relapse could happen 5, 10 years later.


----------



## oregonmom

MHO is rehabs are doing a disservice having their patients write these types of letters so early in the process. Their brain is still functioning in addict mode, sometimes for years. They do not yet understand the gravity of what their addiction has done and are still in rationalization mode. It takes time, and rushing it does no good.

My H was in rehab locally and he read me his letter in person in front of his councilor. I wrote one too. I went first and cried the whole way thru, he read his very matter of factly. That should have been my first clue he didn't "get" it yet and all it was all just words. I was in full codependent mode and wanted to believe it so badly I closed my eyes to what was really happening.

Eta: not saying this is the case for you at all GP, just my own experience


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> or... could you handle it again if she does not.
> 
> You are never going to know if she will stay clean. Relapse could happen 5, 10 years later.


A second time and I hope I am done. That would be enabling imo.


----------



## GutPunch

oregonmom said:


> MHO is rehabs are doing a disservice having their patients write these types of letters so early in the process. Their brain is still functioning in addict mode, sometimes for years. They do not yet understand the gravity of what their addiction has done and are still in rationalization mode. It takes time, and rushing it does no good.
> 
> My H was in rehab locally and he read me his letter in person in front of his councilor. I wrote one too. I went first and cried the whole way thru, he read his very matter of factly. That should have been my first clue he didn't "get" it yet and all it was all just words. I was in full codependent mode and wanted to believe it so badly I closed my eyes to what was really happening.
> 
> Eta: not saying this is the case for you at all GP, just my own experience


This letter believe it or not was all her. She has been getting counciling for a while now. Making it seem it was constructed with the IC terminology.

She still has to write the rehab letter you are talking about and I as well telling her the damage she has caused our family.


----------



## oregonmom

I like that she wrote it all by herself . That is a good sign.


----------



## devastated3343

Hiya GP, I was trying to keep up to date with your journal but things got busy and the last time I checked in you had just found out your wife had to go into rehab. I'm very sorry to hear that. Regardless of the dynamics of our relationships I think most of us wouldn't want to see our exes suffer like that. 

I read the letter you posted. I didn't realize she was calling you GP. That's a bad sign...

Seriously though, if I may be so bold, a few of your posts after addressed how you should respond to her letter, or what you should think now. I would humbly suggest that you not let yourself get caught up in a move/counter-move situation. She writes a letter, stirs up some old feelings, good and bad, does a little finger pointing, takes a little blame, and then you feel like you have to make a next move, to respond somehow and either fight or capitulate or give in to lingering feelings. You don't. No matter what happens in the future you don't really have a relationship right now. She's getting the help she needs, so let her. 

Thank you for your letter, I'm really glad you're getting the help you need, and I hope it's for the best. 

It's not your job to fix things, address previous shortcomings, win arguments, be right, sacrifice your pride, any of that. Just let it be for a while. She's sick, hopefully she'll do the work and get better. But right now she's in a dark place, and she's naturally reaching out to a time when life was easier, and someone was taking care of her. That's perfectly normal, just don't let her force you into being the other half of a relationship. Healthy people can choose to be together for the right reasons, broken people cling to others for dear life. 

Wish you the best, GP.


----------



## GutPunch

devastated,

That is exactly what I told my Dad this morning when he asked me what I was gonna do. I told him nothing. 

That's the beauty of all this. I don't have to do nothing. I told her that I appreciated the letter and I felt that it was heartfelt and left it at that. 

She calls everyday and I see her on weekends when I bring the kids. We really don't talk relationship and that's good for me. She did sit in my lap and she is grabbing my hands too hold and such. 

Not this weekend but next she has a 48 hour pass and it has me a little worried. If I was a betting man, she is probably gonna want to bang. Could be wrong though.


----------



## K.C.

Should i point at Bwinks or is that rude? 

I think you may be right about intent, doesn't mean you have to go there.

Though I imagine resisting is a damn site harder than just saying it.

Has she spoken about where she plans to stay etc on the 48 hr pass? have you spoken to the centre about what advice or whatever she might get prior to it?


----------



## GutPunch

K.C. said:


> Has she spoken about where she plans to stay etc on the 48 hr pass? have you spoken to the centre about what advice or whatever she might get prior to it?


Nope...I am just along for the ride. I do not discuss us.


----------



## K.C.

Didn't think you would have but wondered if she had brought it up.

you expecting her to show up in a nightie with her toothbrush or you think she will go elsewhere?


----------



## GutPunch

K.C. said:


> Didn't think you would have but wondered if she had brought it up.
> 
> you expecting her to show up in a nightie with her toothbrush or you think she will go elsewhere?


IDK...I will have to pick her up. Gonna be interesting.


----------



## K.C.

Wow, I do not envy you that tbh

I hope she can realise she isn't ready for any of that but like you say, could be very likely.

Not that i like to advocate 'using' the kids but it is a great opportunity for her to spend some quality time with them. might be best way of handling it?

Regardless though, good luck man. Just makes sure whatever happens you can be ok with you afterwards.


----------



## GutPunch

K.C. said:


> Wow, I do not envy you that tbh
> 
> I hope she can realise she isn't ready for any of that but like you say, could be very likely.
> 
> Not that i like to advocate 'using' the kids but it is a great opportunity for her to spend some quality time with them. might be best way of handling it?
> 
> Regardless though, good luck man. Just makes sure whatever happens you can be ok with you afterwards.



I know MMSLP says a man should never turn his wife down when she wants too bang.

Interested as to what the TAM heavy hitters got to say.


----------



## GutPunch

F it ... just bought me a rolex with the wife's retirement money I nuked. Thanks honey. I hope we work things out 

40 years old time to do something for me


----------



## soca70

GutPunch said:


> F it ... just bought me a rolex with the wife's retirement money I nuked. Thanks honey. I hope we work things out
> 
> 40 years old time to do something for me


Did the remainder cover the cost of the rehab? Was it still $30K or so?


----------



## GutPunch

Yes it's covered. I wouldn't take my wife's money.

Not the kind of person I am.

Really just reimbursing what I already paid out of my pocket
for her to be in there until now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> I know MMSLP says a man should never turn his wife down when she wants too bang.
> 
> Interested as to what the TAM heavy hitters got to say.


If you still have feelings for your wife, are still attracted to her then why not?

I think you deserve it!


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I know MMSLP says a man should never turn his wife down when she wants too bang.
> 
> Interested as to what the TAM heavy hitters got to say.


I haven't.

Most I've done is to tell her I won't be joining her in the shower as I'm scheduled to exercise while I work on "being still"


----------



## GutPunch

So then where did BW go wrong? 

Is it cause he forgot the sandwich?

Frostine flexed her boobers 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> So then where did BW go wrong?
> 
> Is it cause he forgot the sandwich?
> 
> Frostine flexed her boobers
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He went wrong by believing the sex meant he'd get respect.

It meant the opposite.

When she started in on him, he wasn't prepared - he was caught off guard.

He began an explanation of his position that was worthy of a younger version of Lifescript.

She tore him to bits.


----------



## GutPunch

I see but I am sure his speech
Would have charmed her.

So she sensed his vulnerability and neediness?

He was probably all clingy like I was that first time.
Frostine ain't got time for that.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I see but I am sure his speech
> Would have charmed her.
> 
> So she sensed his vulnerability and neediness?
> 
> He was probably all clingy like I was that first time.
> Frostine ain't got time for that.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


More basic than that.

She let him back in (to bed), so she assumes she has control.

She hates being a single parent - wants to bring him to heel.

Subconsciously, she now thinks he'll do whatever she wants to get back in.

I'm betting she's wrong.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> More basic than that.
> 
> She let him back in (to bed), so she assumes she has control.
> 
> She hates being a single parent - wants to bring him to heel.
> 
> Subconsciously, she now thinks he'll do whatever she wants to get back in.
> 
> I'm betting she's wrong.


So this fitness test ain't over
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> So this fitness test ain't over
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They've just begun.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I know MMSLP says a man should never turn his wife down when she wants too bang.
> 
> Interested as to what the TAM heavy hitters got to say.


Dude - you're still married, right?

I say go for it, if you wanna. Relieve some stress.

Just remember what she's shown to be capable of and forget "I love you".


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> I know MMSLP says a man should never turn his wife down when she wants too bang.
> 
> Interested as to what the TAM heavy hitters got to say.


I think they mean under normal circumstances.

If I was you, I probably wouldn't pass up the opportunity, though.

Footnote: I think the only times I turned my wife down was during her affair. Something just wasn't right between us, and I was very stressed out and tired during this period. (Hmm.. wonder why)


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

My older brother once told me, never ever ever under ANY circumstances turn down sex, even if it's with someone you hate, even if you've been shot or have a fever of 105. The only true disqualifyer is she's a beached whale.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> GP
> 
> My older brother once told me, never ever ever under ANY circumstances turn down sex, even if it's with someone you hate, even if you've been shot or have a fever of 105. The only true disqualifyer is she's a beached whale.


Ha! Beached whales need lovin too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I see but I am sure his speech
> Would have charmed her.
> 
> So she sensed his vulnerability and neediness?
> 
> He was probably all clingy like I was that first time.
> Frostine ain't got time for that.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's also now confirmed she's ovulating.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Ha! Beached whales need lovin too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep...just not from me


----------



## staystrong

Conrad said:


> He's also now confirmed she's ovulating.


Look up to the sky, my friends. It's the full moon. 

Wear your good boxers this weekend, GP


----------



## zillard

Philips Bodygroom Man - YouTube


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, Conrad is right, wear the good boxers, not the ones like I wear that are Cofederate gray.


----------



## GutPunch

I bought one already. I'll trim some
hedges but the chest hair stays.

Too much hair to try and shave the ole
chest. My wife likes it anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I bought one already. I'll trim some
> hedges but the chest hair stays.
> 
> Too much hair to try and shave the ole
> chest. My wife likes it anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't shave sh!te. I trim.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> I don't shave sh!te. I trim.


Me neither. I got a guy friend. Muscle head.
Man he shaves everything. Who's got that kind of time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> I bought one already. I'll trim some
> hedges but the chest hair stays.
> 
> Too much hair to try and shave the ole
> chest. My wife likes it anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:The older you get the longer your chest hair gets. If you have barber clippers, and good oves are cheap, you can trim the hair in about three minutes using the attachements that hold the cutters away from your skin. Looks like it did back in the day.


----------



## GutPunch

Since the wife got locked up

my thread has gotten boring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> Since the wife got locked up
> 
> my thread has gotten boring.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks


----------



## GutPunch

Nope...I believe it's her fault. She can't do anything stupid to get my blood pressure up. 

I guess i'll read BW and ReGroup! Their wives are still entertaining.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Since the wife got locked up
> 
> my thread has gotten boring.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


GP

Boring is good.

Rest. Conserve energy.

Because before you know it your wife will be back.


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> GP
> 
> Boring is good.
> 
> Rest. Conserve energy.
> 
> Because before you know it your wife will be back.


Plenty of "non-boring" thread starters would trade places with you.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I can't speak for ReGroup but I would surely trade threads with lots of the ones I've read. And while I would never make light of your wife's terrible addiction issues, GP, I would give my left n*t if someone would come and lock mine up for a few months.

I could breathe.


----------



## GutPunch

My son has fell victim to Daddy ball. His little league team has four asst. coaches and a head coach. Their sons are 1B, 2B, 3B, SS and catcher. The blatant favoritism is infuriating. Even my laid back father says it isn't right. I overheard a seven year old teammate tell my son that he should be playing in the infield. Even they no better.

Lesson to Dad's.....Coach if you can but please be fair. 

S7 is gonna be the best center fielder in the league.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> My son has fell victim to Daddy ball. His little league team has four asst. coaches and a head coach. Their sons are 1B, 2B, 3B, SS and catcher. The blatant favoritism is infuriating. Even my laid back father says it isn't right. I overheard a seven year old teammate tell my son that he should be playing in the infield. Even they no better.
> 
> Lesson to Dad's.....Coach if you can but please be fair.
> 
> S7 is gonna be the best center fielder in the league.


Move him to LF.

Many more balls come that way - especially when you're 7.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> I can't speak for ReGroup but I would surely trade threads with lots of the ones I've read. And while I would never make light of your wife's terrible addiction issues, GP, I would give my left n*t if someone would come and lock mine up for a few months.
> 
> I could breathe.



You could breathe if you just get your head out from between the shanks and come up for air.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Move him to LF.
> 
> Many more balls come that way - especially when you're 7.


He is arguably the best player on the team. 

Center Field?

HE has to back up the LF and RF cuz they are so slow.


----------



## K.C.

GutPunch said:


> Since the wife got locked up
> 
> my thread has gotten boring.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only as you seem to be handling it so well though man.

Maybe we need to make this the almost (So the mods dont banhammer) naked mud wrestling thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

Conrad said:


> Plenty of "non-boring" thread starters would trade places with you.


Agreed!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

I guess my son (hereafter to be referred to as the best player on the team) will take the field tonight. I guess he will be in centerfield picking flowers because not one of our FIVE coaches is going to put his son in the outfield. What a joke! 

Spent two hours at rehab with the wife and kids. Drama free week and weekend again. The 48 hour pass starts on Fri. I am definitely interested in what she has got planned in her head. I am just going with the flow.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sounds like the best possible plan, GP, go with the flow. 

Regarding your son, do what my father would have done, show up drunk for the game and punch the coaches.


----------



## old timer

Bullwinkle said:


> do what my father would have done, show up drunk for the game and punch the coaches.


Are we twins separated at birth, BW?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Sounds like the best possible plan, GP, go with the flow.
> 
> Regarding your son, do what my father would have done, show up drunk for the game and punch the coaches.


Great idea except I don't have a wife that can bail me out of jail.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Maybe so, Old Timer. Yeah, the Old Man woulda got a snoot full, then come down to the ballpark, punched the coach and then called his son a Mama's Boy who only gets to play cause Daddy's the coach. Otherwise the son be at home with his butterfly collection. 

Good point, GP, maybe not so good if Mama is in Rehab and you're in County lock-up.


----------



## happyman64

Enjoy the flow GP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Sounds like the best possible plan, GP, go with the flow.
> 
> Regarding your son, do what my father would have done, show up drunk for the game and punch the coaches.


My father is a big drinker and is already been to some practices. He has already noticed and let loose some nice inebriated comments. Mt. St. GP's Dad is gonna erupt before the season is over.


----------



## Awakening2012

Good luck to junior GP in his game tonight!


----------



## Bullwinkle

Yo, GP, did your dad dad show up and make a scene at the game last night? you been quiet today, I hope the two of you didn't spend the night in a holding cell.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Yo, GP, did your dad dad show up and make a scene at the game last night? you been quiet today, I hope the two of you didn't spend the night in a holding cell.


No he didn't come. He lives an hour and a half away. Son played pitcher last night as one of the kids were sick. Struck out three times at the plate. He was extremely disappointed. He has a flaw in the mechanics of his swing but ole GP is on it. 

Having a hard time dealing with the trust thing. How about you?

I don't know if I have the fortitude to make this work.

I don't know how committed she is to this process.

This limbo truly does suck. I know I owe it to my kids to try. They are just so young. I don't want to be a guy that slowly gets more and more resentful over time. Trying to just live in the moment and not forward think. Goes against my nature big time not to plan.


----------



## Conrad

It's really lonely when you're waiting - and have zero control

Mailing stuff every day still?


----------



## Bullwinkle

Yeah, between the trust thing and the Limbo Land, it's the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. That and trying to be cool and calm all the time when my nature is to yell and curse and want to punch somebody. All this freaking calmness is going to be the death of me. 

And like you, iDK if my wife has what it takes to make this work. It's all well and good for me to have changed and become a better person, when I fear she will always be a couple drinks away from some other guys arms or bed.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> It's really lonely when you're waiting - and have zero control
> 
> Mailing stuff every day still?


Kind of slacked off here recently. Been busy at work and have been speaking to her on the phone daily. I also have seen her each weekend with a 48 hour pass coming this weekend.

I have a strong urge to press her for more. I am fighting that urge cuz now is not the time. Now is the time for her to beat her addiction. Just trying to live in the moment and yes it really is lonely.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> when I fear she will always be a couple drinks away from some other guys arms or bed.


Uggh! That turns my stomach too. I'm in the same boat.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Uggh! That turns my stomach too. I'm in the same boat.


The key is to get your wives in a healthy place and make them "fear" being an arms or drinks length from some other guy.

Patience Gentlemen. Patience.

And while you are waiting keep working on yourselves and your children.......

Now is when they really need you more than you realize.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Kind of slacked off here recently. Been busy at work and have been speaking to her on the phone daily. I also have seen her each weekend with a 48 hour pass coming this weekend.
> 
> I have a strong urge to press her for more. I am fighting that urge cuz now is not the time. Now is the time for her to beat her addiction. Just trying to live in the moment and yes it really is lonely.


Keep fightin' it GP. Don't press. 

Make a note to have the kids send something special every couple of days. Even if its just a picture of your boy in his baseball uni or your girl in her ballet outfit...whatever.

What do you have planned for the weekend?


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> Keep fightin' it GP. Don't press.
> 
> Make a note to have the kids send something special every couple of days. Even if its just a picture of your boy in his baseball uni or your girl in her ballet outfit...whatever.
> 
> What do you have planned for the weekend?


Nothing really. We do have a baseball game to go to. 

She says she doesn't want to do anything. 

I should plan something shouldn't I?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Nothing really. We do have a baseball game to go to.
> 
> She says she doesn't want to do anything.
> 
> I should plan something shouldn't I?


Of course you should.

Do what she always truly loves to do every... single... time

And, make it a surprise.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Of course you should.
> 
> Do what she always truly loves to do every... single... time
> 
> And, make it a surprise.



Do drugs?

IDK what that is.


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> Uggh! That turns my stomach too. I'm in the same boat.


GP and BW - 

Fear of relapse. That's what my H struggled with, too -- his fear that he could never trust me again, that I would "always be one drink or drug away from ruining our lives." There was not infidelity in the mix in my case, and we did not have children, so your situations are slightly different, but with kids there is a strong incentive to give it every chance to work. I go to many meetings, and have heard of husbands who stayed with their wives through mutliple (!) rehabs, and they are stable andhappy today. I envy those with addiction problems whose spouses do not leave them and give up on them and the marriage. I know there are techniques for re-building the trust and that it takes time and patience. Ii know my H struggled with his decision, and did not take it lightly, but for him that fear that I might relapse was apparently too much for him to handle -- layered on top of his own childhood and depression issues. 

I wish you both strength and courage, and hope the best for you. As GP wisely told me, it is what is is until it isn't.

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Do drugs?
> 
> IDK what that is.


C'mon brother - where's your game?

You guys simply have to have a favorite restaurant where the kids behave and the food is great.

That's a start.

Think about the crap they've been shoveling her in that place.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Do drugs?
> 
> IDK what that is.


Damn GP. :rofl:

Son of a *****. I spit my coke all over my screen when I read that.


----------



## Tron

Conrad said:


> C'mon brother - where's your game?
> 
> You guys simply have to have a favorite restaurant where the kids behave and the food is great.
> 
> That's a start.
> 
> Think about the crap they've been shoveling her in that place.


:iagree:

NM just re-read your post up there. Family outing at fav restaurant definitely the way to go.


----------



## GutPunch

Just found out that the wife is part of the trauma group at rehab. Supposedly she has blocked out portions of her childhood due to physical abuse. IDK maybe it's true. I am a skeptical type person. 
That's not good if it is true. 

48 hour pass tomorrow. I hope she's been doing her Kegel exercises. lol


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Just found out that the wife is part of the trauma group at rehab. Supposedly she has blocked out portions of her childhood due to physical abuse. IDK maybe it's true. I am a skeptical type person.
> That's not good if it is true.
> 
> 48 hour pass tomorrow. I hope she's been doing her Kegel exercises. lol


The way she's behaved in your relationship, I believe her.

She acts like she has zero self love.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Nice one, GP, the Kegels. Now I'm the one who spit Coke on my screen.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> The way she's behaved in your relationship, I believe her.
> 
> She acts like she has zero self love.



I think that is accurate.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I think that is accurate.


Forgive me for not remembering.

Has she had any IC?

I mean, aside from what she's getting in rehab.

Because, she's sure getting it now.


----------



## Tron

Conrad said:


> She acts like she has zero self love.


C, this worries me about my D15. She has a learning disability, so I understand why she has these issues. Besides therapy, is there anything specific we can do as parents?


----------



## Conrad

Tron said:


> C, this worries me about my D15. She has a learning disability, so I understand why she has these issues. Besides therapy, is there anything specific we can do as parents?


Self love comes from security

Even with a learning disability, is she able to express her needs?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Forgive me for not remembering.
> 
> Has she had any IC?
> 
> I mean, aside from what she's getting in rehab.
> 
> Because, she's sure getting it now.



Yes, she has a IC she has been seeing ever since she came clean about the drugs. Not impressed with her. She doesn't seem to challenge her. Watched her life implode and did nothing to hold her accountable.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Yes, she has a IC she has been seeing ever since she came clean about the drugs. Not impressed with her. She doesn't seem to challenge her. Watched her life implode and did nothing to hold her accountable.


Touch base with the people at rehab about this - behind the scenes.

Get them to refer her to a good counselor for aftercare.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Touch base with the people at rehab about this - behind the scenes.
> 
> Get them to refer her to a good counselor for aftercare.


Excellent idea. She will resist. Firing her "friend".


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Excellent idea. She will resist. Firing her "friend".


A good counselor is never really your friend.

They're your safe person.


----------



## zillard

Conrad said:


> A good counselor is never really your friend.
> 
> They're your safe person.


A trap many people fall into. Really opening up emotionally to someone you trust can lead to feelings of attachment.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> A trap many people fall into. Really opening up emotionally to someone you trust can lead to feelings of attachment.


Especially if there hot like my counselor. Mine does me no good but I keep going.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Especially if there hot like my counselor. Mine does me no good but I keep going.


Like Soprano with Dr. Melfi


----------



## GutPunch

I don't like redheads but every once in a while there's one that blows the curve.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Especially if there hot like my counselor.


I'm quite sure I've never had those thoughts about D7's IC. 

I'm also a liar.


----------



## Tron

My W would love to get her Masters in Psychology and go into counseling. Starting to think that would be a REALLY BAD IDEA.

Sounds like she is going to regret the day I ever found TAM.


----------



## Conrad

Tron said:


> My W would love to get her Masters in Psychology and go into counseling. Starting to think that would be a REALLY BAD IDEA.
> 
> Sounds like she is going to regret the day I ever found TAM.


She will think she regrets it.

Years down the road, when she finally realizes how happy she became in the relationship, you can break the news.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I don't like redheads but every once in a while there's one that blows the curve.


I have a hard spot for redheads. 

How about PMing me her contact info. 

]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> I have a hard spot for redheads.
> 
> How about PMing me her contact info.
> 
> ]
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't share. I'm working on how to get rid of all her male clients.


----------



## Tron

Conrad said:


> She will think she regrets it.
> 
> Years down the road, when she finally realizes how happy she became in the relationship, you can break the news.


I know, I know. This "happy" of which you preach has already started. We had a very nice lunch today BTW. I admitted that I had failed a fitness test on Easter. Then admitted to failing another one Tuesday when discussing the first one...I'll get the hang of it one of these days.  A Missouri mule...that's me. 

As for the rest of you, just keep it up guys. I have a serious weakness for redheads with green eyes. The W has made it happen a few times, but I didn't realize that it garnished her this much outside attention. I am not sure right now if "I am OK with it."


----------



## happyman64

Tron said:


> I know, I know. This "happy" of which you preach has already started. We had a very nice lunch today BTW. I admitted that I had failed a fitness test on Easter. Then admitted to failing another one Tuesday when discussing the first one...I'll get the hang of it one of these days.  A Missouri mule...that's me.
> 
> As for the rest of you, just keep it up guys. I have a serious weakness for redheads with green eyes. The W has made it happen a few times, but I didn't realize that it garnished her this much outside attention. I am not sure right now if "I am OK with it."


My cheating ex fiancé was a smoking redhead with green eyes.

My rebound girl who drove herself insane over my exfiance was a curly redhead with green eyes. Awesome in the sack, great GF but just plain crazy and possessive.

So I meet my wife, cute brunette, red highlights and awesome big blue eyes.

A few years or so later, When she is Pregnant just a few days before delivery she has her hair dyed a brighter red.

She comes home, all a glow and says what do you think?

I tell her I like her natural color and she is starting to look like some crazy girls I know.

She gets mad and says she did the dye job to make herself feel better.

Well delivery day comes up. My wife is just about ready and the young day nurse walks in, slaps a glove on, looks at my wife and says "I need to check on how dilated you are honey".

She lifts up my wife's gown, plunges in, looks down at my wife's crotch and says "Wow"!

My wife goes asks what's wrong.

The nurse responds " I just thought you were a natural redhead with that pale skin and blue eyes. But now I know you are not after seeing the dark bush".

She covers my wife up and leaves the room laughing.

My wife looks at me and tells me to shut up. I never said a word.

And my wife never colored her hair that red again..........


----------



## Tron

Great story HM! :lol:


----------



## GutPunch

Bahaha! Amazing how people will listen to strangers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mallycoo

Well I've just read this thread right the way through and wow what a trip!

I'm glad that there are positive things happening for you now, it looks like you have a fair degree of control over your destiny at this point.

I find your commitment to being a good parent humbling and I admire the restraint and self control you have displayed under tough circumstances, it must be hard to try and stay level headed knowing your wife is tantalisingly close, I'm glad you're keeping a grip of things, you've managed to be supportive without caving in to romance and I think it will pay off big time, the longer you can wait on things the better and the clearer the picture will be.

I can only hope that if I ever find my wife gravitating towards me again I can display the same control and play the long game too because it is surely the best way to handle the opportunity.

Whatever happens I think you should be proud of yourself, you've coped with this whole scenario amazingly well from start to finish, we are all human but few have as much control and dignity under fire as you do.


----------



## GutPunch

mallycoo said:


> Well I've just read this thread right the way through and wow what a trip!
> 
> I'm glad that there are positive things happening for you now, it looks like you have a fair degree of control over your destiny at this point.
> 
> I find your commitment to being a good parent humbling and I admire the restraint and self control you have displayed under tough circumstances, it must be hard to try and stay level headed knowing your wife is tantalisingly close, I'm glad you're keeping a grip of things, you've managed to be supportive without caving in to romance and I think it will pay off big time, the longer you can wait on things the better and the clearer the picture will be.
> 
> I can only hope that if I ever find my wife gravitating towards me again I can display the same control and play the long game too because it is surely the best way to handle the opportunity.
> 
> Whatever happens I think you should be proud of yourself, you've coped with this whole scenario amazingly well from start to finish, we are all human but few have as much control and dignity under fire as you do.


Thanks for the kind words. Believe me every day is still emotionally tough on me but I take solace in the fact that I haven't once lost my cool and that I have everything I need to be happy with or without her.


----------



## mallycoo

GutPunch said:


> Thanks for the kind words. Believe me every day is still emotionally tough on me but I take solace in the fact that I haven't once lost my cool and that I have everything I need to be happy with or without her.


I'm sure it is tough and it shouldn't be any other way, it's how you deal with it that makes the difference.

And I firmly believe that your journey down either road will be all the more successful for the way you are handling things.

The chance to reconcile is all to often squandered by moving too fast and rushing, your approach is about as close to ideal as I could imagine and also means that if you choose to go it alone you will be successful with that too.

I've really learned a lot from this place but perhaps you have been one of the biggest inspirations, even though we are from very different walks of life the feelings we all go through can be very similar.


----------



## GutPunch

mallycoo said:


> I'm sure it is tough and it shouldn't be any other way, it's how you deal with it that makes the difference.
> 
> And I firmly believe that your journey down either road will be all the more successful for the way you are handling things.
> 
> The chance to reconcile is all to often squandered by moving too fast and rushing, your approach is about as close to ideal as I could imagine and also means that if you choose to go it alone you will be successful with that too.
> 
> I've really learned a lot from this place but perhaps you have been one of the biggest inspirations, even though we are from very different walks of life the feelings we all go through can be very similar.



These type feelings are primal. Go back to caveman days. Doesn't matter what color your skin is or where you are from or how much money you got.


----------



## GutPunch

Someone A$$ getting laid TONIGHT!

A scene from the movie "Grandmas Boy"


----------



## Tron

Enjoy yourself GP! 

Don't forget the romance. A little goes a long way.


----------



## Stella Moon

*evil wide grin coming from me...


----------



## happyman64

So GP

How is her hall pass working out for you?


----------



## zillard

I'm sure he'll let us know after puttin the sheets though the wash and cooking breakfast with a ship eatin grin on his face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Sh!t eating grin check.

She can cook breakfast.

Thank you MMSLP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Arendt

Read this whole journal over the past few days. You've ahndled things well.

GP: I went through rehab 20 years ago, and have been clean ever since. It is possible. I recently started back to AA meetings because the stress of this separation has caused me to want to drink again. But it is possible to stay clean. A person really has to hit bottom though, and then have some capacity for honesty. Sounds like your wife may have had both.


----------



## weightlifter

Random poon or stbxw?


----------



## GutPunch

She's gone to a NA meeting this morning. Whew! Gonna wear me out. I am definitely on the emotional rollercoaster again. Not gonna be all needy this time. 

I am really concerned if I can put the past behind me. I just keep telling myself one day at a time. Whatever happens, I am going to be OK.


----------



## weightlifter

so it was stbxw?

confuzzled.


----------



## GutPunch

weightlifter said:


> so it was stbxw?
> 
> confuzzled.


Correct
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012

That's great she's getting herself to a meeting! Hope she keep it up and continues to show you she is serious about her recovery, re-claiming herself and re-building trust and intimacy with you


----------



## mallycoo

GutPunch said:


> She's gone to a NA meeting this morning. Whew! Gonna wear me out. I am definitely on the emotional rollercoaster again. Not gonna be all needy this time.
> 
> I am really concerned if I can put the past behind me. I just keep telling myself one day at a time. Whatever happens, I am going to be OK.


One day at a time like you say pal, at least you know the both of you are now in a similar place in many ways, compared to where you were at the start of this thread you are both certainly closer to the going in the same direction.

I would say just try and let her take the lead in terms of how much affection you dish out, just go with the flow. Don't be needy but don't give nothing either unless it's unreciprocated. 

Perhaps a time to let actions do the talking!   :smthumbup:

But ultimately YOU decide what you are comfortable with.

Putting the past behind is surely a major challenge, some people say you should try to treat a reconciliation as a totally new thing and not a continuation of the old with only the positive things carried over but stuff like that is easier said than done!

And make sure to keep that threshold of how hard she needs to try, don't be tempted to reach too far for her, it has to be the other way around but I already know that you need that from her and quite right too.


----------



## Chaparral

GutPunch said:


> She's gone to a NA meeting this morning. Whew! Gonna wear me out. I am definitely on the emotional rollercoaster again. Not gonna be all needy this time.
> 
> I am really concerned if I can put the past behind me. I just keep telling myself one day at a time. Whatever happens, I am going to be OK.


When you are in the peaks its great, when you hit a valley "fake it till you make it."

Keep the MMSLP handy no matter how the road forks.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Take it slow, GP. We're all rooting for you.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> She's gone to a NA meeting this morning. Whew! Gonna wear me out. I am definitely on the emotional rollercoaster again. Not gonna be all needy this time.
> 
> I am really concerned if I can put the past behind me. I just keep telling myself one day at a time. Whatever happens, I am going to be OK.


If you're too worn out, remember I'm a pharmacist.


----------



## GutPunch

48 hour pass .... check
rampant hysterical bonding ..... check
two aspirin and a bag of ice .... check

Did not need a pharmacist's help .... priceless


----------



## Bullwinkle

The word hysterical sums it all up, GP.


----------



## familyfirst09

Just caught up...sooo happy for you...one day at a time like you said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> 48 hour pass .... check
> rampant hysterical bonding ..... check
> two aspirin and a bag of ice .... check
> 
> Did not need a pharmacist's help .... priceless


Really glad you had a good weekend GP!


----------



## GutPunch

Proud Daddy of a homerun hitter tonight.

Prestigious club his Daddy never joined.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

Opposite field shot with a home run trot?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

ReGroup said:


> Opposite field shot with a home run trot?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Inside the park he just turned seven.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Proud Daddy of a homerun hitter tonight.
> 
> Prestigious club his Daddy never joined.


Sweet!


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good for you and good for your son, GP. Was this the son who wasn't getting the playing time before?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Good for you and good for your son, GP. Was this the son who wasn't getting the playing time before?


He got playing time but it was in the outfield.
Outfield no fun at his age. He's been moved to pitcher
since then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

I had forgotten. That's great, though, good for a kid's ego.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> He got playing time but it was in the outfield.
> Outfield no fun at his age. He's been moved to pitcher
> since then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When the other kids get rocked, the best kid always ends up pitching. Even stupid coaches want to win.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Just checking in, GP. How you holding up?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Just checking in, GP. How you holding up?


Holding up great. Read your thread at night before going to bed. Definitely got more action than stupid tv. I am proud of you for getting your power back from her.

I lost my uncle yesterday to COPD. The man who taught me how to play baseball. Smokers who read this need to stop. Ugly way to go.

The wife still calls everyday and says the right things. I don't know what the future holds. I just know I will never be able to love her like I used to. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe we are only supposed to love our kids that much or maybe not. Lots of parents enable their children cause they love them so much.

If I do reconcile, I bet I'll be hiding money in jars in the backyard. I don't believe my wife is as selfish and self centered as most of the DS I see on TAM. I do believe the drugs made her that way. Here's the million dollar question, Can she stay clean?


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> The wife still calls everyday and says the right things. I don't know what the future holds. I just know I will never be able to love her like I used to. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe we are only supposed to love our kids that much or maybe not. Lots of parents enable their children cause they love them so much.
> 
> If I do reconcile, I bet I'll be hiding money in jars in the backyard. I don't believe my wife is as selfish and self centered as most of the DS I see on TAM. I do believe the drugs made her that way. Here's the million dollar question, Can she stay clean?


Good update, a lot of positive going on. I think your attitude on this is great. You are absolutely correct in that the relationship will never be the same and you won't ever love or trust her the same. In a way, that is good, because as you've gone through this process and had time to reflect on the relationship you hopefully realize what is/was healthy, what is/was unhealthy, how things failed and how things can be better. All these things are important in moving forward for you...with or without your W. 

And I hope she stays clean too.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sorry about your uncle, GP.


----------



## familyfirst09

Sorry about your uncle. My mom has COPD, been battling with it for years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Sorry about your uncle. My mom has COPD, been battling with it for years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Brutal disease. Lost my grandmother too it in 2010.


----------



## GutPunch

Funny story. The icing on my sh!t sundae is I also got a jury duty summons. Just what I need right. So I go down there and tell the man let me give you a story of my last six months on this earth. I gave him the whole story and ended with oh yeah my uncle died this morning. 

His response....Don't worry about jury duty and if you ever need someone to talk to give me a shout. 

lol


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good story GP, but remind me not to ask for an ice cream sundae at your house.


----------



## Chuck71

When some one is addicted, it is a prison without walls

Odd how things stand now, you love her but are not in love with her

that phrase ring a bell?

take all the time you need to even consider a R

she has a great deal to prove to you


----------



## GutPunch

24 hour stomach virus. Ugggh! Someone shoot me. 

Not good to be fighting with D3 over wet wipes.


----------



## zillard

A gut punch for real.

Just got over similar bug. Sure was fun cleaning d's spaghetti spew out of the carpet hours before showing the house. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Nice image, Zill-Man.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hey, Punch, you been quiet on your thread, you okay?


----------



## GutPunch

Thread is quiet. Not much to vent about while she is on 24 hour lockdown. She calls everyday to chit chat and tells me she loves me and blah blah I get sick at my stomach when I say it back. 

I am still angry and have trust issues. I deserve better than her but being realistic the chances of finding a woman my age or younger that wants small kids, makes six figures, extremely high on the sex rank meter, are slim at best. And my kids love her to death. My cousin said she had me a date and I told her great but she has to be an improvement looks wise over the wife. She laughed and said good luck with that. 

I still have some anger concerning the garden gnome also. Never really got a chance to pee on his parade. I don't think I can get thru life with him getting off scott free. I would really like to choke the life out of him but my children are too important for me to do that. Thinking about cheaterville and such. Should I make my wife put him on there when she gets out. Any ideas? Do the spokeo websites let me know if he is married and such? I do know he has a criminal record and is an ex drug addict preying on other drug addicts in an online recovery forum. What a weak POS.


----------



## Conrad

Get a user account as a female and get him to hit on you.

You'll have his info soon enough.


----------



## familyfirst09

GutPunch said:


> Thread is quiet. Not much to vent about while she is on 24 hour lockdown. She calls everyday to chit chat and tells me she loves me and blah blah I get sick at my stomach when I say it back.
> 
> I am still angry and have trust issues. I deserve better than her but being realistic the chances of finding a woman my age or younger that wants small kids, makes six figures, extremely high on the sex rank meter, are slim at best. And my kids love her to death. My cousin said she had me a date and I told her great but she has to be an improvement looks wise over the wife. She laughed and said good luck with that.


LAME!!!!!
Stop doubting yourself and the people you can meet. I am a woman that fits that description. Don't know if more attractive than your wife but there's lots of "me's" out there. 

You shouldn't be telling her you love her if you don't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

And above all else focus on you and your anger.

Your kids have only you to depend on so do not jeapordize your family over any confrontation.

The POSOM is such a loser is he really worth any of your time.

You have plenty of time to decide how you feel about your wife, your marriage and your future.

So focus on you.


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> And above all else focus on you and your anger.
> 
> Your kids have only you to depend on so do not jeapordize your family over any confrontation.
> 
> The POSOM is such a loser is he really worth any of your time.
> 
> You have plenty of time to decide how you feel about your wife, your marriage and your future.
> 
> So focus on you.


And, realize that anger is the jet fuel of codependence


----------



## ReGroup

GutPunch said:


> realistic the chances of finding a woman my age or younger that wants small kids, makes six figures, extremely high on the sex rank meter, are slim at best


:scratchhead:

Who hacked into GP's account?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Get a user account as a female and get him to hit on you.
> 
> You'll have his info soon enough.


I love you man. You think even better than me.

What do I get him to talk about? Wife? No way he cops to that. I think he's divorced anyway.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> And, realize that anger is the jet fuel of codependence


Falling out of love now....

This one stops me cold.

She cheated on me not him.

F him right


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> LAME!!!!!
> Stop doubting yourself and the people you can meet. I am a woman that fits that description. Don't know if more attractive than your wife but there's lots of "me's" out there.
> 
> You shouldn't be telling her you love her if you don't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


One problem...You live in CANADA. Maybe I'll come up there and catch a RUSH show.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I love you man. You think even better than me.
> 
> What do I get him to talk about? Wife? No way he cops to that. I think he's divorced anyway.


All you need to be able to do is google him - then dig in.

Do you know his name and address?

He can tell you what he does for a living - and where


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> All you need to be able to do is google him - then dig in.
> 
> Do you know his name and address?
> 
> He can tell you what he does for a living - and where


Is this just feeding my codependence. Or is getting him back the manly thing to do. What do I do with the info? 

Should I just let it go with him? I can't pummel him so whats the use? I still like your idea though.


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> And above all else focus on you and your anger.
> 
> Your kids have only you to depend on so do not jeapordize your family over any confrontation.
> 
> The POSOM is such a loser is he really worth any of your time.
> 
> You have plenty of time to decide how you feel about your wife, your marriage and your future.
> 
> So focus on you.


I agree.

but I was like to fight guy in college. Shocked my best friend when I told him I let her go and did nothing. He said that dude better be glad it wasn't 1995. 

Kids change everything.


----------



## Awakening2012

Conrad said:


> All you need to be able to do is google him - then dig in.
> 
> Do you know his name and address?
> 
> He can tell you what he does for a living - and where


Hi Conrad and GP - I have a question. If anger is the jet fuel of codependence, how does GP going after the AP help? Doesn't that just stoke and fuel more anger? That seems contradictory and counter-productive IMHO.

GP, your anger and trust issues are exactly what I saw in my H, even after I returned from rehab -- in fact super magnified due to his repression of those feelings for so long during my active addiction. We did not have kids in the mix, so it was easier for him to leave, which he did. Also byproducts of his anger, he completely and adamantly refused MC and dragged out our separation for a year. So I totally get your anger, but if you want to get past it and give R a chance, you'll have to proccess it in IC, Al-Anon or somehow. Letting it fester will destroy prospects of R, if you still want to keep that possibility open.

Best Wishes,- A12


----------



## Conrad

Exposing his activity to those around him is a public service.

While Gut is waiting for his own life to unfold, this is admittedly a diversion, but one that is well deserved.


----------



## old timer

Conrad said:


> And, realize that anger is the jet fuel of codependence


*^^^???^^^*

:scratchhead:

.


----------



## GutPunch

Had a breakthrough with the fair skinned ginger IC of mine. She says to never defend myself when the wife is trying to express her feelings. As the son of alcoholic, my entire childhood involved defending myself to my Dad. Good point. When wife asked for MC should not have defended myself. When she expressed her feelings in the letter should not have defended myself. Good points earned her money for real today instead of just sitting there looking all pretty.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Had a breakthrough with the fair skinned ginger IC of mine. She says to never defend myself when the wife is trying to express her feelings. As the son of alcoholic, my entire childhood involved defending myself to my Dad. Good point. When wife asked for MC should not have defended myself. When she expressed her feelings in the letter should not have defended myself. Good points earned her money for real today instead of just sitting there looking all pretty.


Very important insights.

Sit with them awhile.


----------



## GutPunch

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi Conrad and GP - I have a question. If anger is the jet fuel of codependence, how does GP going after the AP help? Doesn't that just stoke and fuel more anger? That seems contradictory and counter-productive IMHO.
> 
> GP, your anger and trust issues are exactly what I saw in my H, even after I returned from rehab -- in fact super magnified due to his repression of those feelings for so long during my active addiction. We did not have kids in the mix, so it was easier for him to leave, which he did. Also byproducts of his anger, he completely and adamantly refused MC and dragged out our separation for a year. So I totally get your anger, but if you want to get past it and give R a chance, you'll have to proccess it in IC, Al-Anon or somehow. Letting it fester will destroy prospects of R, if you still want to keep that possibility open.
> 
> Best Wishes,- A12


I don't want to be angry or jealous.


----------



## old timer

Conrad said:


> And, realize that anger is the jet fuel of codependence


Conrad, I'm trying to understand your meaning here.


----------



## Conrad

old timer said:


> Conrad, I'm trying to understand your meaning here.


Old Timer,

I like the new avatar. Donald is one of my faves.

Codependence is characterized by an endless parade of #3's (stuff that we do to give others pleasure that make us feel bad/doormat about ourselves)

Our logical emotional response to not getting the appreciation/love or whatever we expected back from the "givee" fuels righteous anger.

We then lash out at them for not going along with our covert contracts.


----------



## old timer

Conrad said:


> Old Timer,
> 
> I like the new avatar. Donald is one of my faves.


Thanks - it came about from the Reconciliation thread where we're supposed to read each others' posts in the voice of their avatar. I want to be read as DD.

Lotta Star Trek characters and even one poster wants to be read in Steven Hawking's computer generated voice, lol.



Conrad said:


> We then lash out at them for not going along with our covert contracts.


^^^ This clears it up. :iagree:

.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Old Timer,
> 
> I like the new avatar. Donald is one of my faves.
> 
> Codependence is characterized by an endless parade of #3's (stuff that we do to give others pleasure that make us feel bad/doormat about ourselves)
> 
> Our logical emotional response to not getting the appreciation/love or whatever we expected back from the "givee" fuels righteous anger.
> 
> We then lash out at them for not going along with our covert contracts.


What's that got to do with the garden gnome?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> What's that got to do with the garden gnome?


You're angry as all get out at your wife for cheating on you and wish to take it out on the Gnome - as your wife is currently not available to rip.

Perfectly understandable.

You saw yourself as busting ass for your wife and kids and your sacrifice was repaid by her giving herself to posOM.

And, as the relationship got more strained, you gave MORE of what you thought was missing - which became a #3.

She betrayed you - with him.

And, you're pissed.

I would be.

And, what makes it worse?

He's preying on addicts that were hoping for a "safe place" to work on their issues.

Lower than whale shix.


----------



## Shaggy

Gut punch

If the OM is using an online forum to Prey on addicts you will be doing a great public service to not only get his details and expose him in real life, but also to expose to the forum.

Do you have your wife's login info? If so log in and share her story and what he did.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> You're angry as all get out at your wife for cheating on you and wish to take it out on the Gnome - as your wife is currently not available to rip.
> 
> Perfectly understandable.
> 
> You saw yourself as busting ass for your wife and kids and your sacrifice was repaid by her giving herself to posOM.
> 
> And, as the relationship got more strained, you gave MORE of what you thought was missing - which became a #3.
> 
> She betrayed you - with him.
> 
> And, you're pissed.
> 
> I would be.
> 
> And, what makes it worse?
> 
> He's preying on addicts that were hoping for a "safe place" to work on their issues.
> 
> Lower than whale shix.


Yep, that pretty much sums up how I feel. 

Especially when he is a Dr. and knows exactly what he is doing.
Its called 13th stepping.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Yep, that pretty much sums up how I feel.
> 
> Especially when he is a Dr. and knows exactly what he is doing.
> Its called 13th stepping.


There's some street justice due here.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> There's some street justice due here.


There is a police mug shot of him on the internet.

I want to put it on a billboard near the doc in the box he works at.

DRUG ADDICT / FELON / ADULTERER / YOUR FAMILY DR.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> There is a police mug shot of him on the internet.
> 
> I want to put it on a billboard near the doc in the box he works at.
> 
> DRUG ADDICT / FELON / ADULTERER / YOUR FAMILY DR.


cheaterville.com


----------



## Shaggy

Cheaterville and the state ethics board.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> cheaterville.com


Shouldn't I wait until she's out to monitor the aftermath. Am I just wasting my time on a loser? Thought about making her do post it on cheaterville? What's your thoughts on this? This would give me a good idea on how she truly stands.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

Send me the link. I gotta see this garden gnome.


----------



## Shaggy

Actually have you thought about suing him for malpractice?

If he ever in anyway engaged her under his "professional " persona, especially if he ever wrote her a prescription , then he's liable for malpractice .


----------



## Shaggy

GutPunch said:


> Shouldn't I wait until she's out to monitor the aftermath. Am I just wasting my time on a loser? Thought about making her do post it on cheaterville? What's your thoughts on this? This would give me a good idea on how she truly stands.


No. You do this on your schedule and without even mentioning it to her.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> GP
> 
> Send me the link. I gotta see this garden gnome.


Send me Frostine dancing and you got a deal.


----------



## GutPunch

Shaggy said:


> Actually have you thought about suing him for malpractice?
> 
> If he ever in anyway engaged her under his "professional " persona, especially if he ever wrote her a prescription , then he's liable for malpractice .


That makes my mouth water but alas I don't think I can get him on that one.


----------



## Bullwinkle

LOL. You had to bring that up, so to speak. I guess not all of her drunken episodes were all bad.


----------



## GutPunch

Here you go BW

NO need to private this.


----------



## GutPunch

I know a garden gnome when I see one.


----------



## Shaggy

How does that troll have a license to practice medicine with his history?

Cheaterville awaits. Don't fear your wife's reaction to you taking action.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Holy SHYT, GP, he looks like Kramer from Seinfeld! Why is this puke still breathing?


----------



## zillard

ahaha. One tattoo. 

On his butt. What a tool.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Holy SHYT, GP, he looks like Kramer from Seinfeld! Why is this puke still breathing?


Only two feet shorter.


----------



## Bullwinkle

That cuts it. I'm flying down there and after I beat him to within an inch of his life, I'll stick him in my front yard with a little lantern in his hand.


----------



## soca70

OK - that guy looks scuzzy. A garden gnome would be an upgrade (a la Travelocity). What kind of Dr is he?


----------



## K.C.

Bullwinkle said:


> That cuts it. I'm flying down there and after I beat him to within an inch of his life, I'll stick him in my front yard with a little lantern in his hand.


And a fishing rod. Chop off his penis it can be the bait on the hook.


----------



## familyfirst09

ReGroup said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> Who hacked into GP's account?


That's what I was thinking!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012

Deleted,per request.


----------



## GutPunch

Please don't post the link in a reply. I am not going to leave it up. I do not want people finding this thread when they search him.


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> That's what I was thinking!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh it's me. Just starting to get my self-esteem back.


----------



## familyfirst09

That's good. Cause I'm in the same boat yanno. What would you say to me if I said something like that?! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> That's good. Cause I'm in the same boat yanno. What would you say to me if I said something like that?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You already know.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, I've deleted the link too. And I really liked KC's comment about using his little wiener for bait.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Had a breakthrough with the fair skinned ginger IC of mine. She says to never defend myself when the wife is trying to express her feelings. As the son of alcoholic, my entire childhood involved defending myself to my Dad. Good point. When wife asked for MC should not have defended myself. When she expressed her feelings in the letter should not have defended myself. Good points earned her money for real today instead of just sitting there looking all pretty.


Wow.

She is smart, pretty and you like her.

Is she interested in a guy with kids???


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Wow.
> 
> She is smart, pretty and you like her.
> 
> Is she interested in a guy with kids???



YES! Her husband.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> YES! Her husband.


Well that sure is a safe boundary!

And her points were good. Very insightful.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> YES! Her husband.


It really is a shame when those hot, insightful therapists that see into your soul and are still impressed are married, no?


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> It really is a shame when those hot, insightful therapists that see into your soul and are still impressed are married, no?


I know right. I think mine was choking back tears today talking to me. Too bad I know what boundaries are or I may have offered some comfort.


----------



## ReGroup

You are a stronger man than I am... I am a sucker for the tears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

ReGroup said:


> You are a stronger man than I am... I am a sucker for the tears.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I got a big hug from mine. While she was in tears.

... I was too though, so it wasn't hot.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Ditto on the tears, GP. Once the waterworks start, all my resolve crumbles, I'll agree to anything.


----------



## GutPunch

Do post nuptial agreements hold up?


----------



## old timer

Sounds like a question for your lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Odaat

> .. I was too though,


I haven't been able to le tmyself cry in front of my IC (also married and attractive) yet.



> Do post nuptial agreements hold up?


This is NOT legal advice in any way, nor should it be construed as such in any fashion, manner, or reading.

I think most courts are recognizing their validity, be sure talk to your lawyer. I believe, if done correctly, they can be as binding as a pre-nup. 

All I know is, I have to know them for my domestic relations final as well as for the GA bar exam.


----------



## old timer

Odaat said:


> All I know is, I have to know them for my domestic relations final as well as for the GA bar exam


Ahhh, a budding shyster in our midst. 

J/K Odaat - good luck in your legal career.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

my ex was just nailed by the IRS

i cried tears......from laughter


----------



## GutPunch

I just got a chuckle from that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Do post nuptial agreements hold up?


In most states, yes, including Alabama. But there are formalities that need to be followed and the process needs to be completed in such a way that it can't be thrown out later if/when you ever wind up back in divorce court. I recommend you get your D lawyer to work one up for you.

Is your W on board with it?


And just in a general question...how are you holding up GP? 

She has another month or so to go. How are you feeling about it? Have they started talking about bringing you in for any sessions, or is that going to happen after?


----------



## zillard

Tron said:


> Is your W on board with it?


She will be if she wants back in.


----------



## Chuck71

years filing married but separate to claim HoH

to claim her then under 18 child

tax guy said never sign with her

now she files it BOOM

here's a funny thought

she tells me about it

free comic relief?


----------



## GutPunch

Odaat said:


> I haven't been able to le tmyself cry in front of my IC (also married and attractive) yet.
> 
> 
> 
> This is NOT legal advice in any way, nor should it be construed as such in any fashion, manner, or reading.
> 
> I think most courts are recognizing their validity, be sure talk to your lawyer. I believe, if done correctly, they can be as binding as a pre-nup.
> 
> All I know is, I have to know them for my domestic relations final as well as for the GA bar exam.


lol Sure sounds like legal advice.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> She will be if she wants back in.


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> years filing married but separate to claim HoH
> 
> to claim her then under 18 child
> 
> tax guy said never sign with her
> 
> now she files it BOOM
> 
> here's a funny thought
> 
> she tells me about it
> 
> free comic relief?



She just wanted to try out ReGroups soda machine.


----------



## Chuck71

Son met with me to re sign papers

asked for a hug and babbles

listen / observe

they forget this is my job

Chuck wants a trip to Bimany

ex wants all the $$

guess who wins this!


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> In most states, yes, including Alabama. But there are formalities that need to be followed and the process needs to be completed in such a way that it can't be thrown out later if/when you ever wind up back in divorce court. I recommend you get your D lawyer to work one up for you.
> 
> Is your W on board with it?
> 
> 
> And just in a general question...how are you holding up GP?
> 
> She has another month or so to go. How are you feeling about it? Have they started talking about bringing you in for any sessions, or is that going to happen after?


I'm holding up fine. Getting stronger every day. 

We have sessions on conference call every week.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> I'm holding up fine. Getting stronger every day.
> 
> We have sessions on conference call every week.


That's great! :smthumbup:

Just curious about the process, did those sessions start right from the start or pick up somewhere along the way?


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> That's great! :smthumbup:
> 
> Just curious about the process, did those sessions start right from the start or pick up somewhere along the way?


From the very beginning.


----------



## warlock07

there was recent case where the pre nup was invalidated(sfter more than a decade) because it was signed under duress


----------



## Tron

warlock07 said:


> there was recent case where the pre nup was invalidated(sfter more than a decade) because it was signed under duress


This is definitely the kind of thing you need to be concerned about. There are a few things that could potentially invalidate a pre or post nup. Duress is one of them and is the one circumstance that would be the most applicable with you IMO. There are also a few others you need to discuss with your lawyer. Be careful about conditions that you might want in it that would trigger the post-nup. Whatever is in there needs to be reasonable because you also don't want your W to feel imprisoned in a marriage because of some document she had to sign to get to see her kids on a daily basis. Lots of considerations...money, property, child custody, etc. Put some thought into it. Also very important that her attorney represent her on it and review it beforehand. They aren't always so simple.


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> This is definitely the kind of thing you need to be concerned about. There are a few things that could potentially invalidate a pre or post nup. Duress is one of them and is the one circumstance that would be the most applicable with you IMO. There are also a few others you need to discuss with your lawyer. Be careful about conditions that you might want in it that would trigger the post-nup. Whatever is in there needs to be reasonable because you also don't want your W to feel imprisoned in a marriage because of some document she had to sign to get to see her kids on a daily basis. Lots of considerations...money, property, child custody, etc. Put some thought into it. Also very important that her attorney represent her on it and review it beforehand. They aren't always so simple.


I would want the divorce agreement turned into a post nuptial agreement. Same custody arrangement, financials, everything.
Definitely no prison sentence for her just what she has already agreed to although she was on drugs when she agreed to it.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Damn, GP, you're a good guy, I'm trying my best to get my WS some jail time.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Damn, GP, you're a good guy, I'm trying my best to get my WS some jail time.


or you could wear a helmet. Problem solved.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Ouch. At least she had the decency to clock me with a full wine bottle so we could drink it afterwards.


----------



## familyfirst09

Bullwinkle said:


> Ouch. At least she had the decency to clock me with a full wine bottle so we could drink it afterwards.


LOL! I am obviously missing something!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## soca70

Bullwinkle said:


> Ouch. At least she had the decency to clock me with a full wine bottle so we could drink it afterwards.


Like that's a good thing?


----------



## Bullwinkle

No, not a good thing. I was just being facetious.


----------



## Chuck71

hands BW first aid kit

and a cork opener


----------



## Bullwinkle

Thanks, Chucky. Maybe it's just me, you're bleeding on the kitchen floor, who could criticize you for a glass of good wine?


----------



## Chuck71

to dull the pain i would assume


----------



## GutPunch

BW

I real Alpha guy would have taken the lick. Opened the wine bottle with his teeth. Chewed on the glass in front of the wife. Then told his wife to go freshen up and get in the bed cuz she was fixin to pay Papa. Instead you ruin the moment with stitches and police.


----------



## ReGroup

The real GP is back... Lol!

BTW, where's CHIP???!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> BW
> 
> I real Alpha guy would have taken the lick. Opened the wine bottle with his teeth. Chewed on the glass in front of the wife. Then told his wife to go freshen up and get in the bed cuz she was fixin to pay Papa. Instead you ruin the moment with stiches and police.


Best. Post. Ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

any one know how stay strong is doing? did he leave tam??


----------



## Bullwinkle

StayStrong checked in this morning. Seemed okay.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> BW
> 
> I real Alpha guy would have taken the lick. Opened the wine bottle with his teeth. Chewed on the glass in front of the wife. Then told his wife to go freshen up and get in the bed cuz she was fixin to pay Papa. Instead you ruin the moment with stiches and police.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're on a roll today!


----------



## GutPunch

Well...I spent Saturday with the wife and kids while she was on work release from the funny farm. Took the kids to a trampoline place. Whoever came up with that idea was brilliant. Then we visited the Gardens where we got married. TRIGGER! Finally capped it off with dinner at a nice restaurant and ice cream afterwards. 

On the way home and I get this text. 

Mrs. GP: I'm walking back to the funny farm. I had a wonderful time with you and the kids. I am grateful for every second of it. I love you so much. Thank you. I really mean it.


----------



## Chuck71

GP-Your thoughts?


----------



## old timer

What'd you do - drop her off on the highway?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> GP-Your thoughts?


My Lawyer better find a way to protect my a$$.

Be careful what you wish for all you BH's. Sometimes the
180 brings them back and then what?


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good point, GP. Ive thread a million threads about all these poor saps out there trying to do the 180. But I can't recall one where they then knew WTF to do when the WS actually came back....


----------



## Stella Moon

GutPunch said:


> BW
> 
> I real Alpha guy would have taken the lick. Opened the wine bottle with his teeth. Chewed on the glass in front of the wife. Then told his wife to go freshen up and get in the bed cuz she was fixin to pay Papa. Instead you ruin the moment with stiches and police.


Omg! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> What'd you do - drop her off on the highway?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's all about respect now. A little stroll thru North Bham never hurt anybody. Well...except for those few exceptions I saw on the First 48 on A & E.

No More Mr. Nice Guy


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Good point, GP. Ive thread a million threads about all these poor saps out there trying to do the 180. But I can't recall one where they then knew WTF to do when the WS actually came back....


I know what you should have done.


*DUCK!*


----------



## happyman64

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Very good GP.

But since you cannot duck have you given any thought if your wife acts remorseful, is remorseful and wants you, the kids and the marriage back???

Just your thoughts....

HM64


----------



## K.C.

*Re: Re: Gutpunch's Journal*



GutPunch said:


> I know what you should have done.
> 
> 
> *DUCK!*


Haha, love it.


----------



## Chuck71

Spins Alice Cooper "No More Mr. Nice Guy" for GP

the great 459 B'ham wrap....I swear I hate the curve

getting to I-65S

Gardendale is where the girl's friend lived

in my first novel 

.....I hope my ex never comes back

the NFL schedule for 2013 came out

Pittsburgh will be on tele roughly ten times

I felt like I just has sex with a super model!


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> It's all about respect now. A little stroll thru North Bham never hurt anybody. Well...except for those few exceptions I saw on the First 48 on A & E.
> 
> No More Mr. Nice Guy


Dissin' my childhood neighborhood are ya, Gut?

Homie don't play dat...

.


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Very good GP.
> 
> But since you cannot duck have you given any thought if your wife acts remorseful, is remorseful and wants you, the kids and the marriage back???
> 
> Just your thoughts....
> 
> HM64



She is very remorseful. I want her to stay clean and off drugs. Statistics are not on her side as far as addiction. Thus, I am considering the post-nuptial agreement. I cannot afford to take chances with my kids. I do know I am much stronger than I was in October. I feel like my kids and I deserve better but she is their Mom and my wife and I guess she deserves a one and only second chance. 

She has already agreed to be an open book, marriage counseling whatever it takes. I am hopeful but reserved.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I want her to stay clean and off drugs. Statistics are not on her side as far as addiction.
> 
> I am hopeful but reserved.


It can be done, GP. There is hope, but definitely reason for caution.

I was once into some pretty heavy drugs. Got me into a heap of trouble. Saw some real close friends die or get locked up. Most are now worse off then they ever were before, because they haven't kicked the habit. 

I just passed up 10 years. She CAN do it. With proper motivation and focus. Know that an addict will usually replace one addiction for another. This is normal. The key is for that replacement to be a healthy hobby which is moderated.


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> It can be done, GP. There is hope, but definitely reason for caution.
> 
> I was once into some pretty heavy drugs. Got me into a heap of trouble. Saw some real close friends die or get locked up. Most are now worse off then they ever were before, because they haven't kicked the habit.
> 
> I just passed up 10 years. She CAN do it. With proper motivation and focus. Know that an addict will usually replace one addiction for another. This is normal. The key is for that replacement to be a healthy hobby which is moderated.


Good points Z.

Maybe sex with GP could be a new hobby.

Working out and running would be two good ones.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Maybe sex with GP could be a new hobby.


I know this is mostly joking, but watch out for that one. 

It's what I did. X became my new addiction. Notice the 10 year time frame ran parallel to my relationship with X. 

Exit dependent Z and enter codependent Z. It worked to keep me clean. Did not work for happiness and a healthy M.


----------



## GutPunch

Good point Z

Hot sex out. Emotional bonding in. 

Wait! What? Cancel that Z. I'll just get 
more counseling to get thru it.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Good point Z
> 
> Hot sex out. Emotional bonding in.
> 
> Wait! What? Cancel that Z. I'll just get
> more counseling to get thru it.


Hot sex is great. Always. 

Codependent validation-seeking coupled with duty sex... not hot.


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> Hot sex is great. Always.
> 
> Codependent validation-seeking coupled with duty sex... not hot.


Needy and weak.


----------



## K.C.

Sounds like my marriage.. certainly not "hot"!


----------



## zillard

The validation-seeking partner doesn't end up feeling any more loved and the duty partner feels cheap and used. 

Terrible all the way around.


----------



## K.C.

Exactly.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, when does WS get out of Stir, I forget.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> GP, when does WS get out of Stir, I forget.


May 22nd


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> May 22nd


9 weeks down, 4 to go.


----------



## GutPunch

Been very slow in these parts. BW and RG occupy my time. 

Son's baseball team is 0-7 and he is now the starting first baseman. Batting slump since he hit the homerun.  

I go back and forth from wanting the wife back to saying to myself that I deserve better.

My uncle died. My dog died.  

At my Uncle's funeral, an old junior high/ high school gf shows up out of the blue. We talked a bit about old times and kids and such. Weird cuz we hadn't spoke in decades. Now she's texting me. Nothing weird yet. I got an eery feeling though. She's married with two kids so she might just be naïve and think nothing of it. A whole lot of anything I can do texts.

On a good note, my business is slammed.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Aside from your sons batting slump, I'm hearing all good stuff here. You're on the gravy train with biscuit wheels.


----------



## old timer

Bullwinkle said:


> You're on the gravy train with biscuit wheels.


Bwahahaha...sounds like something we'd say down here in Alerbamy

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Aside from your sons batting slump, I'm hearing all good stuff here. You're on the gravy train with biscuit wheels.


All good stuff? WTF? Did you miss the part about my uncle and dog dying? 

More like fried spam on moldy bread.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Oh.... Well..... I've experienced a recent head trauma.....

Sorry, GP. Okay, SOME good stuff.


----------



## familyfirst09

Sorry to hear about your dog  and your uncle too of course but I think that was earlier on. 

Why are you feeling so conflicted. She does seem to be making strides in her recovery. I assume you are having trust issues still? Any thought to marriage counselling after rehab?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Sorry to hear about your dog  and your uncle too of course but I think that was earlier on.
> 
> Why are you feeling so conflicted. She does seem to be making strides in her recovery. I assume you are having trust issues still? Any thought to marriage counselling after rehab?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Marriage counseling is a definite our near future unless things take a turn for the worse in the next month. 

Trust issues .... YES I have them but I'm sure with a little counseling and 30 years I'll bounce back.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Marriage counseling is a definite our near future unless things take a turn for the worse in the next month.
> 
> Trust issues .... YES I have them but I'm sure with a little counseling and 30 years I'll bounce back.


Have you followed up with G. Gnome?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Have you followed up with G. Gnome?


Nope, Slammed at work. I want to so bad but on the list of have to dos it is a backburner item. Thinking about it makes my mouth water though. I did get a picture of a beautiful woman I was going to use as a profile picture on the rehab website.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Nope, Slammed at work. I want to so bad but on the list of have to dos it is a backburner item. Thinking about it makes my mouth water though. I did get a picture of a beautiful woman I was going to use as a profile picture on the rehab website.


Have I told you how much you make me smile?

Nothing like the original "GutPunch" that logged on here.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Have I told you how much you make me smile?
> 
> Nothing like the original "GutPunch" that logged on here.


Thanks, means alot coming from a TAM powerhouse like yourself.

I hope my progress is due to me realizing the kids and I are going to be just fine with or without her.

I hope it is not because she is begging to come back and I was able to let go of my anxiety and fear.


----------



## ReGroup

I agree with Chip - seeing where you are now as oppose to back then is quite the turn around.

I'll take plenty of pleasure when you strike back at the G. Gnome.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

ReGroup said:


> I agree with Chip - seeing where you are now as oppose to back then is quite the turn around.
> 
> I'll take plenty of pleasure when you strike back at the G. Gnome.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It may not happen tomorrow, but bet your a$$ my day will come.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, my original offer stands, I'll fly down to Alabama, fetch the G. Gnome and stick him in my front yard, but not before you beat him senseless. 

I thought StayStrong's music teacher was the guy I most wanted to help in a beat down but after I saw the picture of this guy, Kramer from Seinfeld is Working in Alabama, I just knew.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Punch, my original offer stands, I'll fly down to Alabama, fetch the G. Gnome and stick him in my front yard, but not before you beat him senseless.
> 
> I thought StayStrong's music teacher was the guy I most wanted to help in a beat down but after I saw the picture of this guy, Kramer from Seinfeld is Working in Alabama, I just knew.


You got a deal. He is in Florida not Alabama. Thought about luring him to a hotel with a false identity on the rehab website. When he knocks on the door, open it, and operation beat down has begun. 

Then take him to a nice cement mixer and have him coated and painted. Now he's a legitimate lawn decoration and I can let my dog pi$$ on him every morning.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Wow. Sounds good. 

What I like about this is the realization you have apparently thought this through. 

I'm on board.


----------



## K.C.

I love this. Nothing to do with stbx but it is possible for a revenge fantasy to be fleshed out and become a bona fide plan.

I worry a little I may one day carry mine out but I really dont want to spend the rest of my life in prison! :FIREdevil:


----------



## Bullwinkle

Agreed, KC.


----------



## K.C.

They wouldn't even have to take me far if I acted mine out.

What you're out of prison today, so nice to see you, looking forward to feedom? BLAMM.

50 yard walk to my new home haha!

eta I do have an alternate where i might actually get away with it, but I prefer this one for effect!


----------



## Chuck71

Maybe drag the G-gnome's ass to wife's relatives and work. "This is the sack of $hit she almost / possibly threw her family away for." Compose a summary of his actions and tie him naked to the I-459 and I-20 exchange.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> And I'm not sharing the royalties like I shared my wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know you were joking around, but these thoughts appear to be eating at you.  They are certainly at the forefront. Have you discussed it with your (hot) therapist? 

JMO, but your thought process needs a reset. You haven't shared anything.


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> I know you were joking around, but these thoughts appear to be eating at you. They are certainly at the forefront. Have you discussed it with your (hot) therapist?
> 
> JMO, but your thought process needs a reset. You haven't shared anything.


Hell yeah they eat at me. I don't know if it's foolish pride or what. I feel like less of a man for giving her a second chance.
I also feel like less of a man for never getting the chance to pummel the Garden Gnome.

Not a day goes by where both of these don't pop into my head multiple times.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP 

Some might argue that you're MORE of a man for giving her a second chance.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> GP
> 
> Some might argue that you're MORE of a man for giving her a second chance.


Blah Blah Blah

That's TAM Speak


----------



## Chaparral

I personally think it does take more to reconcile, in the short run. The downside to divorce however, is the children. I heard one counselor speak on the radio and he said it was imperative to keep children, especially a daughter from being raised by amna that wasn't a blood relative. On top of that, even after divrce you have to deal with the other parent for a long time. What a dilemma.


----------



## Bullwinkle

OK, fine. I didn't really believe it either.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Blah Blah Blah
> 
> That's TAM Speak


GP

When you hang around long enough you will realize it is much more than TAM speak.

It is much harder to forgive a WS than just walk away.

It is much harder to want to fight to keep your family together when you look at your WS's horrible choices that could destroy your family.

So do not be so quick to say Blah! Blah! Blah!

Because you are taking the harder road. And while the reward might be greater so might be the hurt.

There are no easy choices GP. Especially when you have a family in the mix.

HM64


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

GP It would definitely take much more to make that choice to fight and keep your family together.

I have some of those same feelings churning in me knowing that WS made terrible choices and your left to salvage as best as you can because only YOU were and are thinking about your children. 

Right now my WS keeps wavering back and forth as if I'm going to sit around forever waiting for her to choose to keep her family together. 

GP At least you have that option right now but I can completely understand your struggle.


----------



## GutPunch

My children....sigh! They are my everything.


----------



## Conrad

Hurt Odyssey_DK HL said:


> GP It would definitely take much more to make that choice to fight and keep your family together.
> 
> I have some of those same feelings churning in me knowing that WS made terrible choices and your left to salvage as best as you can because only YOU were and are thinking about your children.
> 
> Right now my WS keeps wavering back and forth as if I'm going to sit around forever waiting for her to choose to keep her family together.
> 
> GP At least you have that option right now but I can completely understand your struggle.


Expose the sleazy cheaters


----------



## GutPunch

Hurt Odyssey_DK HL said:


> GP It would definitely take much more to make that choice to fight and keep your family together.
> 
> I have some of those same feelings churning in me knowing that WS made terrible choices and your left to salvage as best as you can because only YOU were and are thinking about your children.
> 
> Right now my WS keeps wavering back and forth as if I'm going to sit around forever waiting for her to choose to keep her family together.
> 
> GP At least you have that option right now but I can completely understand your struggle.


Hurt Odyssey,

The only reason I have a choice is because I went scorched Earth on my WW. Immediately threw her out, took the kids, exposed her to her family friends etc. Saw a lawyer the next day and started divorce proceedings. I went dark too. Absolutely did not communicate with her unless it was about the kids. She had to trick me to talk to me. 

Long story short. EXPOSE YOUR WIFE!


----------



## Shaggy

I hope you plan on including scheduled drug testing for your wife as part of R to help catch any slips on her part.


----------



## GutPunch

Shaggy said:


> I hope you plan on including scheduled drug testing for your wife as part of R to help catch any slips on her part.


Mandatory 5 years of drug testing to keep her license.


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

I hear ya GP. Or I can keep doing the same thing I've been doing which is NOT working. You took control of the situation. Kicked her out of the driver's seat! I have nothing but admiration for you!


----------



## GutPunch

Hurt Odyssey_DK HL said:


> I hear ya GP. Or I can keep doing the same thing I've been doing which is NOT working. You took control of the situation. Kicked her out of the driver's seat! I have nothing but admiration for you!


Don't admire me. I'm a wounded bird like the rest of us. I'm 
just a little further along in the process.

Listen to the advice you get. Filter thru it. Believe it. 
Show your wife who the man is. She'll get mad of course.
Don't engage her when she does. This will make her more mad.
Next thing you know the anger turns into respect and next 
thing you know there is a knock on your door. 

However, be careful what ye wish for.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Don't admire me. I'm a wounded bird like the rest of us. I'm just a little further along in the process.


Don't sell yourself short. You're further along in the process due to your choices, integrity, motivation, and willingness to work on yourself. 

Many get stuck and don't make it through the healing process (though the self-improvement process should be ongoing).



GutPunch said:


> Listen to the advice you get. Filter thru it. Believe it.
> Show your wife who the man is. She'll get mad of course.
> Don't engage her when she does. This will make her more mad.
> Next thing you know the anger turns into respect and next
> thing you know there is a knock on your door.
> 
> However, be careful what ye wish for.


Excellent advice from someone worth listening to.


----------



## Chuck71

GP you may never fully forgive her. All you can do is try. You can not promise anything. You told me once you still have feelings for her, of course you always will. I still have them for my ex but an R with she and I is as unlikely as gas dropping back to under $1. How would you handle this if you did not have children? Weigh how much the children are involved in the decision. You may try R for a year and say to he!! with it....you have that right. If things do not work out always remember, it was not your fault it blew up. No one forced her to cheat and abuse opiates.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> GP you may never fully forgive her. All you can do is try. You can not promise anything. You told me once you still have feelings for her, of course you always will. I still have them for my ex but an R with she and I is as unlikely as gas dropping back to under $1. How would you handle this if you did not have children? Weigh how much the children are involved in the decision. You may try R for a year and say to he!! with it....you have that right. If things do not work out always remember, it was not your fault it blew up. No one forced her to cheat and abuse opiates.


Chuck,

My children are the number one factor in this decision. They need their mother and financially they will have a better life and more opportunity if we stay together. 

I have read a lot of threads on this website. I do not think that my wife is a GNO serial cheater type woman that I read so much of here on TAM. She is a drug addict. 

As I have said so many times, we were so happy for so long and then all of a sudden we weren't. My problem now is that I just don't feel special anymore. Sounds silly don't it. When I married her, I was the luckiest man in the world. Now...I feel empty.


----------



## Awakening2012

GP - 

When you say you feel empty...does that mean you have no feelings for her, or you still love her but don't feel "in love" with her? Addiction is a destroyer of trust and of intimacy, and it will take time and effort to rekindle both -- but I believe it can be done IF she stays clean and committted to working a program of recovery. Yes, you have the added incentive of at least attempting R, for the sake of the children. 

I admire you for your willingness to at least give R a try, and I truly hope your marriage is one of those that can be healed.

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## Arendt

Have you thought about Al Anon? Maybe connecting with some folks who have been through terrible times with loved ones who are addicts would be beneficial to you. Just a thought.

As a few others have posted in this thread...recovery is possible. I've been clean 16 years. from alcohol and drugs. I attend AA.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> My problem now is that I just don't feel special anymore.


Because of her view?

Or, because of yours?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Because of her view?
> 
> Or, because of yours?


Definitely, would be my view.


----------



## GutPunch

Arendt said:


> Have you thought about Al Anon? Maybe connecting with some folks who have been through terrible times with loved ones who are addicts would be beneficial to you. Just a thought.
> 
> As a few others have posted in this thread...recovery is possible. I've been clean 16 years. from alcohol and drugs. I attend AA.


Yes, attended one meeting. Had to get a sitter for my two babies as they meet at the most inconvenient time in the world for me. Little league or Alanon. I chose little league baseball.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> I have read a lot of threads on this website. I do not think that my wife is a GNO serial cheater type woman that I read so much of here on TAM. She is a drug addict.


I agree with you. It is a serious flaw, but not one that I think is so fundamental as to make her unlovable to you or one that would kill whatever respect you have for her. It is a disease that she is getting treatment for.




GutPunch said:


> As I have said so many times, we were so happy for so long and then all of a sudden we weren't. My problem now is that I just don't feel special anymore. Sounds silly don't it. When I married her, I was the luckiest man in the world. Now...I feel empty.


I understand this and my heart hurts for you. What your feeling isn't silly, but be patient. Emptiness isn't all you can feel. 

It took me almost 1 year solid together after separation for my W to get back those feelings. Daily reinforcement for a year. She is a black/white thinker too. There are no shortcuts. 

Realistically, how much personal time have you spent with her in the last 6 months since DDay? Not much...maybe a week? You have been effectively separated for 6 months straight. How are you supposed to rebuild what you had and how is she supposed to help you feel the way you used to in that short period of time? It's not possible...not for anyone.

She loves you and wants to do this for you. Obviously, there are no guarantees, but my suggestion is just to be patient. If not for her then for your kids.


I didn't mean to be flippant yesterday, I apologize if it came out that way. I didn't want you to blow up, I just got the feeling you needed to get some $hit off your chest.


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> I didn't want you to blow up, I just got the feeling you needed to get some $hit off your chest.


I am under a lot of stress to put it mildly.


----------



## GutPunch

Wife called my parents today. Would have loved to have been a fly
on the wall there. They said she didn't cry but was on the verge the whole time. 

That sure took some cajones on her part.


----------



## Chuck71

Was it to apologize?


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> Was it to apologize?


One big apology.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> I am under a lot of stress to put it mildly.




If it's that bad and you can still see humor in so much heartache on this forum...that bodes well for you...and her. I think she needs that Gutpunch too...not just the rock.

Kudos to her for trying to set things right with your folks. 

3 more weeks...


----------



## familyfirst09

chapparal said:


> I personally think it does take more to reconcile, in the short run. The downside to divorce however, is the children. I heard one counselor speak on the radio and he said it was imperative to keep children, especially a daughter from being raised by amna that wasn't a blood relative. On top of that, even after divrce you have to deal with the other parent for a long time. What a dilemma.


What's amna?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

Is she further along in her recovery than the last time she was sober? Sounds like she is really making progress. Gosh you must be so torn, I really feel for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> What's amna?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


a man
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> One big apology.


Yes GP. Your wife found her cajones and some remorse.

That is a very good step in the right direction.


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> Is she further along in her recovery than the last time she was sober? Sounds like she is really making progress. Gosh you must be so torn, I really feel for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She never was really sober. 
It was all lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

GutPunch said:


> I have read a lot of threads on this website. I do not think that my wife is a GNO serial cheater type woman that I read so much of here on TAM. She is a drug addict.


Does it make it better or worse ?


----------



## GutPunch

warlock07 said:


> Does it make it better or worse ?


Neither really. 

I do think the entitled princess makes 
a difficult marriage. She is not that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GP

You are absolutely right about being married to a drug addict. It adds to the issues at hand.

Not insurmountable issues but it effects all of you. I know you understand this.

As to the feeling "special". I get that to. But I feel that feeling first comes from within you.

Yes you got the girl of your dreams. Now the real question is "Is that girl still inside off her?"

Only the two of you will know that answer if she s honest with herself and you.
and if you GP are willing to give her and your marriage that time to find out.

I know many BS's say they are sticking it out or the kids and that is honorable.

But how many BS's really stick around to see if their WS's are truly remorseful?

I admire your resolve GP.

HM64


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hey, GP. 

I liked your choice - baseball or Al Anon. I'd have opted for baseball too.

WS still getting paroled on the 22nd?


----------



## GutPunch

Yep, 48 hour visit this weekend too.

Appointment with Lawyer on Monday to
see what I can do to legally protect myself.

Are you going to meet the Leprechaun?
I don't think I could do that.
Cool Calm Dispassionate

More like angry hostile and violent

I'd probably be OK until 
one word came out of g gnomes mouth.
Then I'd lose it. You can only take so 
much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good luck with the 48 hour visit. and, yeah, the visit with your lawyer sounds like a good idea. 

Yeah, plan is to meet Leprechaun at three for drinks. I am curious what he wants to tell me. We shall see.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, how about an update. Baseball tonight? 

What's the plan for the 48 hour kitchen pass?

Dinner out?


----------



## GutPunch

48 hour pass complete

I had the boundaries talk. 

No male friends. No texting males. 

She is fine with this. 

I mentioned the legal separation. She burst into tears. 
Told me you don't work on a marriage by seeing your Lawyer.
I told her she was thinking with her emotions. She says she
doesn't want a legal separation she wants to be married to me. 

My son's baseball team is 0-9. Next year I buy my way into the small town clique. Not fair that because I am not from here my son don't get to play on a decent team. Next year my company sponsors a team and we get to decide who we play for.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> 48 hour pass complete
> 
> I had the boundaries talk.
> 
> No male friends. No texting males.
> 
> She is fine with this.
> 
> I mentioned the legal separation. She burst into tears.
> Told me you don't work on a marriage by seeing your Lawyer.
> I told her she was thinking with her emotions. She says she
> doesn't want a legal separation she wants to be married to me.


People thinking with their emotions don't want to be told that they are doing so. 

Try to stick to "I" statements and get rid of "you".


----------



## Chuck71

It's for the kids and she knows it

good bet deep down she understands what you are doing

she has yet to process 'she is getting a second chance'

All small towns are that way, if ya ain't frum here, ya nuthin'

here you must attend "the" church, use "the" bank, be a GOP

I'm not any of the three, may be that's why I am a black sheep


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> It's for the kids and she knows it
> 
> good bet deep down she understands what you are doing
> 
> she has yet to process 'she is getting a second chance'
> 
> All small towns are that way, if ya ain't frum here, ya nuthin'
> 
> here you must attend "the" church, use "the" bank, be a GOP
> 
> I'm not any of the three, may be that's why I am a black sheep


It's cool to be the black sheep as long as you are not
on a winless baseball team. Losing sucks.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Damn, GP, that sounds so benign, don't text males. No drunken lunches? No out for drinks after work with a "colleaugue"? 

Your son's baseball team - you said it, next year you buy your way into a decent team. Small Town USA, money talks and bullshyt walks.


----------



## GutPunch

I know I'm such a controlling a$$.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Make us proud, brother.


----------



## old timer

Has our buddy Conrad gotten a permanent vacation?


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Has our buddy Conrad gotten a permanent vacation?


Week long hiatus from what I saw on another thread.


----------



## old timer

Roger that


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> I mentioned the legal separation. She burst into tears.
> Told me you don't work on a marriage by seeing your Lawyer.
> I told her she was thinking with her emotions. She says she
> doesn't want a legal separation she wants to be married to me.


GP, is the reason you are going for the legal separation so that she cannot stall the D if that is what you decide to do or by doing that are you able to maintain status quo on everything that you two agreed to right before she went into rehab?

Is this in lieu of the post nup, or are you getting one of those too?


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> GP, is the reason you are going for the legal separation so that she cannot stall the D if that is what you decide to do or by doing that are you able to maintain status quo on everything that you two agreed to right before she went into rehab?
> 
> Is this in lieu of the post nup, or are you getting one of those too?


Post nup cannot involve kids. Therefore is useless to me. 
Legal separation can maintain the status quo. Don't know if I want to spend the money though. The wife is balking cuz she cannot see things rationally. She hears the words "Legal Separation" and freaks. Should there be a problem say in the near future, I stand a extremely good chance of getting the same deal I got now anyway. I'm leaving myself vunerable a little bit but it comes down to either I take her back or I don't.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Post nup cannot involve kids. Therefore is useless to me.
> Legal separation can maintain the status quo. Don't know if I want to spend the money though. The wife is balking cuz she cannot see things rationally. She hears the words "Legal Separation" and freaks. Should there be a problem say in the near future, I stand a extremely good chance of getting the same deal I got now anyway. I'm leaving myself vunerable a little bit but it comes down to either I take her back or I don't.


Do they ever see things rationally???

Your such a softie for taking her back. We'll forgive you as long as you don't ever go buying her flowers. That guy we wouldn't recognize...and Conrad would hit with a 2x4.


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> Do they ever see things rationally???
> 
> Your such a softie for taking her back. We'll forgive you as long as you don't ever go buying her flowers. That guy we wouldn't recognize...and Conrad would hit with a 2x4.


She is due flowers in approx. nine years and four months.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Post nup cannot involve kids. Therefore is useless to me.
> Legal separation can maintain the status quo. Don't know if I want to spend the money though. The wife is balking cuz she cannot see things rationally. She hears the words "Legal Separation" and freaks. Should there be a problem say in the near future, I stand a extremely good chance of getting the same deal I got now anyway. I'm leaving myself vunerable a little bit but it comes down to either I take her back or I don't.


It is time for mercy, if that's what you want.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> It is time for mercy, if that's what you want.


Yes....In a meeting with her family counselor today, it was obvious that the legal separation meant more to her than it does me. I let up.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> She is due flowers in approx. nine years and four months.


Don't go overboard now. 




Conrad said:


> It is time for mercy, if that's what you want.


If it isn't going to possibly cost you anything on custody then :iagree:

Welcome back Conrad.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Yes....In a meeting with her family counselor today, it was obvious that the legal separation meant more to her than it does me. I let up.


You're the rock, the anchor and if you're "legally separated" what is there for her actually hold onto, to hang her hat on? She wouldn't even have an idea of a marriage. 

You did good.


----------



## GutPunch

Looking for Mothers Day cards is pretty tough.
I cannot find any your a shi**y wife and OK
mother cards. I guess I'll go with the funny ones.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Northern Monkey

Made me chuckle!

Glad to see you can take that approach to it. Seems to be going pretty much to plan.

I hope she can stay in recovery.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hey, Punch, let me know if you have any luck finding an appropriate card.

I'm looking for one in a similar vein, maybe reads, "D and I were going to make you breakfast in bed but the guards wouldn't allow it."


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I cannot find any your a shi**y wife and OK
> mother cards. I guess I'll go with the funny ones.





Bullwinkle said:


> I'm looking for one in a similar vein, maybe reads, "D and I were going to make you breakfast in bed but the guards wouldn't allow it."


You guys are killing me. 

I'm looking for one, too:

"Was getting a fancy card - but I'll let your boyfriend do that"

.


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> You guys are killing me.
> 
> I'm looking for one, too:
> 
> "Was getting a fancy card - but I'll let your boyfriend do that"
> 
> .


How about, "For you on Mothers Day, How about I cut the grass with my fancy lawnmower"


----------



## zillard

Do they sell mini cards for 20% Mother's?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> How about, "For you on Mothers Day, How about I cut the grass with my fancy lawnmower"


Or, "I went to marriage counseling, and all I got you was this lousy T-Shirt"


----------



## GutPunch

How about the passive aggressive route "My counselor thought I should get you a card."


----------



## Bullwinkle

This is some good stuff. Conrad, I particularly liked the crummy t-shirt reference.

Punch, you may have struck a nerve here, there may be a huge niche market out there in the greeting card business for all the BSs looking for that perfect card for the wife currently in the arms of another man or in Rehab or jail, or in my case, all three.


----------



## GutPunch

bullwinkle said:


> this is some good stuff. Conrad, i particularly liked the crummy t-shirt reference.
> 
> Punch, you may have struck a nerve here, there may be a huge niche market out there in the greeting card business for all the bss looking for that perfect card for the wife currently in the arms of another man or in rehab or jail, or in my case, all three.


lmfao!


----------



## zillard

Happy other's Day. 

Beg if you want the "M" back.


----------



## Bullwinkle

LOL. There's only one thing she ever begged for.


----------



## old timer

Hey guys - I got such a kick out of these, I started a thread in CWI soliciting "creative messages" for Mother's Day cards. 

I used GP and BW's from this thread - I hope you don't mind. If you want, I'll delete them over there. 

Here's the link to that thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/73577-humorous-mothers-day-cards-ww.html#post1717833

It's already gotten some hilarious suggestions.

.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Just looked at it - there's one from a SLATER that tickled me - 

"Happy Mother's Day. Let's keep the charade alive for the kids for another year!"


----------



## GutPunch

I liked Slater's 

"Until the kids are old enough to know who you really are, Happy Mother's Day."


----------



## old timer

Ovid said:


> "To the mother of what could potentially be my children."


----------



## Bullwinkle

Nothing like Mother's Day to bring out all the warmth and compassion I'm feeling right now.


----------



## old timer

Bullwinkle said:


> Nothing like Mother's Day to bring out all the warmth and compassion I'm feeling right now.


No bull, BW.

In that spirit (from the other thread):



SomedayDig said:


> ...the kids said they'd make you breakfast in bed, but I didn't feel like driving them to the motel.
> 
> Happy Mother's Day!!


.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Just shot Diet Coke out one nostril involuntarily....

That's my favorite so far.


----------



## Chuck71

My WW can kick your WWs ass

Reminds me of a guy at UTC who got crapped on by his g/f. He sent her and her friend box of doughnuts. Couple days later sent pictures of them hanging from his wanker. That was priceless.

They never got back together. But he did date two of the girls that ate doughnuts


----------



## familyfirst09

Omg....I just spit my coffee out, thank you for this....

GP - glad to see you're doing well 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

Robsia needs a case of beer and a hooker obviously


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> Robsia needs a case of beer and a hooker obviously


Newly fresh wounds would be my guess.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Newly fresh wounds would be my guess.


Yep. Only about a month out, I think

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

So, Punch, no call to the florist, I'm assuming?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> So, Punch, no call to the florist, I'm assuming?


Ha! Lost my diet coke on that one.

Uggh! It's burning my nose.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sorry. I forget it's like another eleven years till you buy some. And by then you'll have already served ten years on the life sentence you got for running her down in the parking lot at the Little League field.


----------



## GutPunch

Visited the funny farm with the kids yesterday. 

Nurse Wratchet took my diet coke? 

All the wifes got flowers from their husbands except for mine. Kinda felt bad until she sorta said something. I gave her the I bought you flowers not too long ago and you saw how that turned out. 

I noticed she is sporting her wedding rings now. 

My son struck out Sat in his game and had an emotional melt down. I think losing every game is getting to him. He is highly competitive and extremely emotional. He refused to even come out the dugout and finish the game. This season has been a nightmare. 

I tore his butt up for quitting on his team. I truly understand when my Dad would tell me this hurts me worse than it does you. 

I will say the wifey was looking good in the summer dress and boots. She has gained a few pounds now that she is not eating lortabs for breakfast anymore. I like thin just not addict thin.

Nine more days and she will be living in my house again. 
I hope I can get over this.


----------



## Chuck71

losing sux but it builds character

i pitched a b!tch on a bad call in 1983

Coach A sat me for rest of game and next

"you are one of if not the best on the team

but NOT the team. ride the pine hot shot"


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, I like that - just not addict thin. Too bad about your son - hopefully next season you'll have put together a team of ringers.

Nine days, wow. I was going to send flowers, attach a card with Garden Gnome's name on it as a joke, thought, no, better not.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> losing sux but it builds character
> 
> i pitched a b!tch on a bad call in 1983
> 
> Coach A sat me for rest of game and next
> 
> "you are one of if not the best on the team
> 
> but NOT the team. ride the pine hot shot"


I remember pitching one in 1st grade myself. The school square 
dance. I was not happy. It came time to do si do and I slung that
poor girl half way across the gym. 

I got the this hurts me way worse than it does you speech that night.


----------



## Chuck71

LOL i had plenty of those but....... i still honestly believed

he secretly enjoyed it..... a bit 

like the Little Rascals episode where dad gave Jimmy the speech

he replied "yeah but not in the same place though"


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> Nine more days and she will be living in my house again. I hope I can get over this.


Hi GP - 

Thinking of you and wishing the best for you and your family. I am so envious of the wives whose husbands stand by them -- I know it is not without struggle and some possible emotional landmines, so I admire your courage. And I hope she knows how lucky she is that you are giving her this chance to redeem herself. As long as she stays clean, I'm hopeful you guys can have a good shot at re-building the marriage and keeping your family together.

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## GutPunch

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi GP -
> 
> Thinking of you and wishing the best for you and your family. I am so envious of the wives whose husbands stand by them -- I know it is not without struggle and some possible emotional landmines, so I admire your courage. And I hope she knows how lucky she is that you are giving her this chance to redeem herself. As long as she stays clean, I'm hopeful you guys can have a good shot at re-building the marriage and keeping your family together.
> 
> Kind Regards,- A12


I think I will have an ongoing battle with resentment. That's why MC will be a must. My pride keeps telling me I deserve better.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I think I will have an ongoing battle with resentment. That's why MC will be a must. My pride keeps telling me I deserve better.


Actually, you do.

I'm glad you didn't get her flowers.

She's starting to see how big the hole she dug actually is.


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> I think I will have an ongoing battle with resentment. That's why MC will be a must. My pride keeps telling me I deserve better.


Hi GP - 

I can tell you, my STBXH had LOADS and LOADS of resentment, so that sounds par for the course. MC for the two of you after she completes rehab is definitely a great idea, and I hope you identify a good one who is the right "fit" for you. However, even before MC, while she is still in rehab shouldn't part of the facility's family outreach efforts include giving you the opportunity to express all the ways in which her addiction issues have negatively affected you and your family? Either in person or over the phone, facilitated by one of their counselors? I thought that was kind of standard practice, but maybe not? 

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> I think I will have an ongoing battle with resentment. That's why MC will be a must.


Wise man, I agree. MC will be an absolute must. I think you weren't dealing with that pent up resentment before dday too. You've gotta work to win that battle daily, 'cause it will kill the R, sure as $hit, if you don't.




GutPunch said:


> My pride keeps telling me I deserve better.


You aren't necessarily unique GP, my W's pride still tells her the same after 10 years. Just an idle thought for you: pride and self respect are not the same. By all accounts, you aren't lacking in the self respect department and that is a great thing. Pride...there's a reason it's the most serious of the seven deadly sins. It leads to all other vices and will prevent you from living a life of grace and virtue.


----------



## GutPunch

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi GP -
> 
> I can tell you, my STBXH had LOADS and LOADS of resentment, so that sounds par for the course. MC for the two of you after she completes rehab is definitely a great idea, and I hope you identify a good one who is the right "fit" for you. However, even before MC, while she is still in rehab shouldn't part of the facility's family outreach efforts include giving you the opportunity to express all the ways in which her addiction issues have negatively affected you and your family? Either in person or over the phone, facilitated by one of their counselors? I thought that was kind of standard practice, but maybe not?
> 
> Kind Regards,- A12


Yes, I get weekly phone calls from her and the funny farm counselors. No it doesn't make me feel any better. I said I would try and that's what I will do. My kids deserve that much.


----------



## Bullwinkle

All you can do, Punch, give it your best shot. Maybe if you didn't have the kids you'd look at things differently but you're doing the right thing.


----------



## GutPunch

Only seven kids at practice.

My boy is in the outfield. 

Serenity Now! 

I know he's getting punished but I still need to vent.


----------



## Chuck71

Nothing worthwhile in life comes easy.

She dug the hole and will have to climb out herself

No life rafts or ropes thrown

She has ten years invested in you and two kids

you are the best thing going for her, and yes she is fully aware

any female can wear boots and short skirt, is meaningless

can you initiate MC right before she is released

may be the MC can meet you and her at the looneybin?


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, I like this whole Looney Bin part of your on-line persona, Nurse Ratched, the supervised visits. 

I know Ive intimated at it before but I have come to believe every man should have to endure his wife being incarcerated to fully appreciate a marriage. 

There's an old song about momma working on a chain gang.


----------



## Bullwinkle

And that old country song, "Mama's in the graveyard, Papa's in the pen."


----------



## GutPunch

Great job coaches.
Way to punish a seven year old.
He's emotional. Get over it.
Maybe he's tired of losing.
But hey maybe putting your best player
in the outfield will help you win.

I wanna quit so bad but it's not what I want
to teach my son.

End of rant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Great job coaches.
> Way to punish a seven year old.
> He's emotional. Get over it.
> Maybe he's tired of losing.
> But hey maybe putting your best player
> in the outfield will help you win.
> 
> I wanna quit so bad but it's not what I want
> to teach my son.
> 
> End of rant.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Punch,

That was me when younger. Imagine me challenging umpires?

Anyway, right around the time he hits 1st-2nd year midgets, the "faux" pitchers will fade away and become hit-n-run victims.

That will be his big chance.

They'll turn to him because they'll have no alternative other than to do the right thing.

I likely threw 65-70mph from 47 feet.

Thought I was Bob Gibson.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Punch,
> 
> That was me when younger. Imagine me challenging umpires?
> 
> Anyway, right around the time he hits 1st-2nd year midgets, the "faux" pitchers will fade away and become hit-n-run victims.
> 
> That will be his big chance.
> 
> They'll turn to him because they'll have no alternative other than to do the right thing.
> 
> I likely threw 65-70mph from 47 feet.
> 
> Thought I was Bob Gibson.


I'm just furious that the coach is just
using my boys bit*h fit as reason to
justify his favoritism for his friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I'm just furious that the coach is just
> using my boys bit*h fit as reason to
> justify his favoritism for his friends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good lesson for him about being married.

Make sure he learns it.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hey, Punch, just checking in, thanks for the support last night, I took the walk to the dark side of the forest.


----------



## GutPunch

You love her....nothing wrong with that.

She must own her problems and fix herself.

Without BW for now.


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> You love her....nothing wrong with that.
> 
> She must own her problems and fix herself.
> 
> Without BW for now.


It's ok to turn your back on someone you love. 

Because sometimes that's exactly what both of you need.


----------



## Chuck71

BW i never caught up on your thread but it sounds as if you are taking back the night. 5 star bud! Hang in there....you have pros on this site working with you!


----------



## GutPunch

Where's the Coping with Little League forum?

0-11


----------



## Awakening2012

"We admitted we were powerless over the Little League, and that our lives had become unmanageable."


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Where's the Coping with Little League forum?
> 
> 0-11


You should find some support for going winless. These guys should be able to advise you:

Chicago Cubs


----------



## GutPunch

My poor cousin called today said hubby asked for D.

I asked if he guards his phone. She said yes.

Next step text records. He's busted. 

Six year old D & 5 year old S.

SMH


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> My poor cousin called today said hubby asked for D.
> 
> I asked if he guards his phone. She said yes.
> 
> Next step text records. He's busted.
> 
> Six year old D & 5 year old S.
> 
> SMH


How old are they?


----------



## GutPunch

mid to late 30s


----------



## Bullwinkle

Great line, A12. Thanks, Chucky. 

Punch, great advice, she has to own it. 

How much longer till this Little League season is mercifully over?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Great line, A12. Thanks, Chucky.
> 
> Punch, great advice, she has to own it.
> 
> How much longer till this Little League season is mercifully over?


May 30th if I can make it with out stroking out.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Great line, A12. Thanks, Chucky.
> 
> Punch, great advice, she has to own it.
> 
> How much longer till this Little League season is mercifully over?


May 30th if I can make it with out stroking out. 

These poor kids haven't even been taught how to grip a bat.

I tried to help one the other day and got called out for not being a coach. Seriously, 0-11 and you are calling the parents out
for not being a coach. Your record speaks for itself.


----------



## Tron

Conrad said:


> You should find some support for going winless. These guys should be able to advise you:
> 
> Chicago Cubs


Do you ever miss an opportunity to dig that knife in just a little bit deeper. Typical Cards fan. Ugh!

I also like A12's idea of starting a 12 step program for little league moms and dads. I think GP has the perfect scorched earth temperament to develop something like that...on second thought, if Step 1 is burning down the clubhouse with all the coaches in it there wouldn't be a need for the other 11 steps. Hmmmm.


----------



## Chuck71

Last call for Steve Bartman!


----------



## Bullwinkle

Afternoon, Punch. What's the countdown till Loving Wife comes home? I've lost count.


----------



## GutPunch

Seven days. 

If I don't go to jail for strangling little
League Dad posing as a baseball coach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Seven days.
> 
> If I don't go to jail for strangling little
> League Dad posing as a baseball coach.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Must.control.your.vessel.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> mid to late 30s


Get him a user account.

The sooner the better.


----------



## Bullwinkle

This should get interesting, GP. I guess it boils down to who you will choke first, WW or Little League coach. 

Don't take this the wrong way but it would be kinda funny if you're going to jail just as WW is paroled, you do sort of a hand-off of the kids.....


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Get him a user account.
> 
> The sooner the better.


He is a she. I told her about this place. 

When I saw Ovary Punch pop up I thought it was her.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Ovary Punch? You gotta be Shytting me.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> He is a she. I told her about this place.
> 
> When I saw Ovary Punch pop up I thought it was her.


I'd actually send her a link to this subforum.

Sometimes a gentle shove is best.


----------



## GutPunch

Just got beat 21-0.

BRUTAL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Just got beat 21-0.
> 
> BRUTAL!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you log on to the Flubs' forum?

Sounds like your son's team is right about here:

"And That's The Cubs? My ****in' Ass!": Lee Elia's Famous Rant Is 30


----------



## old timer

Too funny, Conrad
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Damn, GP, that's gotta be demoralizing. Some leagues have a cap on how many runs one team can run up....


----------



## Chuck71

I think it's the five inning rule. Any team up by ten or more after five, game called.

GP, next year link with a team who has a few bankers kids on it. You can bet your ass that team will be stocked


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Did you log on to the Flubs' forum?
> 
> Sounds like your son's team is right about here:
> 
> "And That's The Cubs? My ****in' Ass!": Lee Elia's Famous Rant Is 30


Too funny. This is exactly how I feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Damn, GP, that's gotta be demoralizing. Some leagues have a cap on how many runs one team can run up....


Seven per inning. We played 3 innings and they called it.

My son and one other still being punished.

All I can do is go 180 on them stupid coaches.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, It'll all be over soon.

My sister said to tell you you need to be the bigger man with these coaches and avoid a confrontation - and then she'll come down and slash their tires.


----------



## old timer

Chuck71 said:


> I think it's the five inning rule. Any team up by ten or more after five, game called.


We call it the "Stop the Bleeding" rule.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Punch, It'll all be over soon.
> 
> My sister said to tell you you need to be the bigger man with these coaches and avoid a confrontation - and then she'll come down and slash their tires.


She would do that for me?

I think I'm blushing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

She said, sure she'll do it, you gotta throw in a dinner, but no Southern stuff like catfish.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> She said, sure she'll do it, you gotta throw in a dinner, but no Southern stuff like catfish.


How about homemade venison chili, fried okra and collard greens.

jeez...what do you yanks eat? Corned beef and cabbage.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> How about homemade venison chili, fried okra and collard greens.
> 
> jeez...what do you yanks eat? Corned beef and cabbage.


That's why they're so full of "hot air"


----------



## Chuck71

lol ask a Yank how to make cornbread


----------



## Bullwinkle

LOL. Venison chili sounds damn good to me. 

Sister says as long as they sell Jim Beam in Alabama that all other cultural differences are negotiable.


----------



## Chuck71

thank you BW but Scotch is very important too LOL


----------



## GutPunch

Well...I blew it. Got a text from baseball 
coach pretty much saying if you got something 
to say tell ME!

One character flaw of mine is I do not respond well
in these situations. lol

I told him exactly how I felt. I felt that the coaches
had given up on the kids etc. etc. etc.
I mean I didn't hold anything back.

Text back says you might should have sent that to coach privately.

Doh! I sent it to the whole team. Stupid group texts. Baseball wives not happy with GP.

Jeez...I messed up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Well...I blew it. Got a text from baseball
> coach pretty much saying if you got something
> to say tell ME!
> 
> One character flaw of mine is I do not respond well
> in these situations. lol
> 
> I told him exactly how I felt. I felt that the coaches
> had given up on the kids etc. etc. etc.
> I mean I didn't hold anything back.
> 
> Text back says you might should have sent that to coach privately.
> 
> Doh! I sent it to the whole team. Stupid group texts. Baseball wives not happy with GP.
> 
> Jeez...I messed up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here's a sample of the next step.

"I'm issuing a heartfelt apology to the coaches of the team. My concerns should have been kept between me and them and I am sorry for any angst caused by my impertinent words. I will remain silent the rest of the season."


----------



## GutPunch

Just sent it C. I feel terrible cause I held nothing back.

Even though I feel this way I should not have put it on the
scorched earth text to the team.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Just sent it C. I feel terrible cause I held nothing back.
> 
> Even though I feel this way I should not have put it on the
> scorched earth text to the team.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just remember (d)anger

Us southern types need to blow it up a few times before it sinks in. It applies across the board.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Just remember (d)anger
> 
> Us southern types need to blow it up a few times before it sinks in. It applies across the board.


I thought anger is a proper response between men
just not between man and woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I thought anger is a proper response between men
> just not between man and woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not on a blast fax to soccer moms


----------



## GutPunch

Uggh! I know! Coaches wives were furious.

However, those coaches absolutely quit trying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Uggh! I know! Coaches wives were furious.
> 
> However, those coaches absolutely quit trying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They know it, but now YOU are the bad guy.

Take the lesson

No one will remember how hideous they were.

Recognize the dynamic?


----------



## GutPunch

Everyone can now be just in dumping their anger on me.

Where's ReGroup and Mavash?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Everyone can now be just in dumping their anger on me.
> 
> Where's ReGroup and Mavash?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They're working on a similar issue involving some Argentinian voodoo dolls


----------



## zillard

GP. Everyone has done that at one time or another. 

'Rad's apology note is good. 

Own it when it is your's. It builds and shows character. 

And quit hitting reply all!


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Well...I blew it. Got a text from baseball
> coach pretty much saying if you got something
> to say tell ME!
> 
> One character flaw of mine is I do not respond well
> in these situations. lol
> 
> I told him exactly how I felt. I felt that the coaches
> had given up on the kids etc. etc. etc.
> I mean I didn't hold anything back.
> 
> Text back says you might should have sent that to coach privately.
> 
> Doh! I sent it to the whole team. Stupid group texts. Baseball wives not happy with GP.
> 
> Jeez...I messed up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OOPS! I hope that doesn't get you put on the "troublemaker" list next year. Hope it doesn't cost you a bundle next year. Live and learn. 

Be glad you got this one out of your system early on. Your babies are still young. Many more years of kid sports ahead of you.

W gets out of the looney bin in a week. I suppose the worst thing that can happen is you have to deal with the dirty looks for this upcoming week, then she can take over.


----------



## zillard

with a season like that it's likely many were thinking exactly what you wrote, but didn't have the stones to do so.

just sayin. 

you could get some respect from it down the road. 

GP the Coach Destroyer!


----------



## Tron

Or this whole thing works out where GP winds up as the coach next year. Still trying to figure out how that happened to me. :scratchhead:

GP the new coach!!


----------



## Chuck71

GP trust me the wives n moms were already 

stringing the coaches up in secret

but as long as their "Johnny" got to play, they didn't complain

if it were me, I may have sent it to everyone on purpose

your son enjoys baseball, I loved it as a kid

the year before I met Coach A, I almost quit

I had coaches like the ones you are dealing with

but Coach A taught me the game the first year

the second he turned me loose

just make sure he gets a coach who loves the game next year

not one who coaches so his son makes the All-Star team


----------



## GutPunch

Our coaches son is one of the worst
players on the team. I think he's
just a good Dad who never picked up
a baseball in his life. He said picked 
his friends kids. Didn't work out. My
wife was their pharmacist. My beef was
they quit putting in the effort to instruct these boys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

the only people who should coach 

are ones who love the purity of the game

if it is for dog n pony show

it shows quickly


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck, 

You nailed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Our coaches son is one of the worst
> players on the team. I think he's
> just a good Dad who never picked up
> a baseball in his life. He said picked
> his friends kids. Didn't work out. My
> wife was their pharmacist. My beef was
> they quit putting in the effort to instruct these boys.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They likely didn't know how.

When you coach the team to please mom instead of bond with your son, the results are never there.


----------



## GutPunch

At the beginning of the season, they tried. 

Broke the kids up into groups with the
different coaches. Everyone working.

A couple weeks later, two coaches work and
the rest just stand there arms folded chit chatting.

They quit. What I did was wrong but they quit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

quitters never win

winners never quit

i have coached in the past

half love me, other half hate me

but i be danmed if i ever bowed once to a parent

the child is the player, not mommy or daddy


----------



## happyman64

Very wise words Chuck.

You apologized GP. So make sure You And your boy are at the next game.

Never quit! nor take anyone's Sh!t!


----------



## GutPunch

I'm not quitting. I will be an outcast.

I don't care. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

ala black sheep, you'd rather it be this way


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> A Long Time Ago In A Galaxy Far Far Away


Really beautiful. No wonder the snatch date worked. Must be painful as héll to look at the picture. She'll probably cry if she looks at it.

note: click on the little photo icon to see pic from Gut's wedding

Brokenshadow is in a situation similar to yours. Nurse wife opiate addict started affair with narcotics therapy group member


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> Really beautiful. No wonder the snatch date worked. Must be painful as héll to look at the picture. She'll probably cry if she looks at it.
> 
> note: click on the little photo icon to see pic from Gut's wedding
> 
> Brokenshadow is in a situation similar to yours. Nurse wife opiate addict started affair with narcotics therapy group member


I believe I'll read it. Thanks LW.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I believe I'll read it. Thanks LW.


Another victim of the Garden Gnome....


----------



## GutPunch

Yea...I just read it. No kids involved. He is not reacting as swiftly as I did. I am too close to his story to offer to much advice. He needs to come down much harder. 

Too afraid to lose the marriage I guess.


----------



## old timer

Which thread, GP?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

old timer said:


> Which thread, GP?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Brokenshadow's EA, at least, and my anxiety won't let go


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> Yea...I just read it. No kids involved. He is not reacting as swiftly as I did. I am too close to his story to offer to much advice. He needs to come down much harder.
> 
> Too afraid to lose the marriage I guess.


He doesn't have a job right now. If she is busted, they end up in street. Tough situation.

re: your thread
I was amazed that once your wife was calling from the rehab camp and saying she loved you, you managed not to say it back because, I gathered, you wanted to hear it many times, to know that it was a strong enough emotion to stand up to the addiction.

Hard to imagine the loneliness she experienced in the apartment. She couldn't feel it entirely because the drugs numbed the pain but somewhere in her conscious mind she must have felt completely cornered and isolated. A new white knight must have been a fantasy, but inside she must have known that any new relationship was doomed from the start.

She may not want to tell you how many she answered but I'll bet that every time she tried to write something she would have found her mind spinning. She may not have been able to answer them at all for the most part.

Must also be horrible to have plan your drug use around your children. You want to feel just perfect and be the perfect parent and have perfect high all at the same time, while all the while plotting to score more dope from the system, which sooner of later will catch you.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hey, GP, I'm back from brief hiatus. 

I've lost track again - when does Loving Wife get paroled? 

You've got to start out on the right foot this time - the night she comes home, lie on the couch and yell, Hey, beer me out here.


----------



## zillard

Bullwinkle said:


> Hey, GP, I'm back from brief hiatus.
> 
> I've lost track again - when does Loving Wife get paroled?
> 
> You've got to start out on the right foot this time - the night she comes home, lie on the couch and yell, Hey, beer me out here.


If you say it. Beer will come.

Tiger offered to help me move boxes when I get to my new place. 

I told her no way, that's man work. But you can bring me a beer.

She will.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Damn, Z.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Hey, GP, I'm back from brief hiatus.
> 
> I've lost track again - when does Loving Wife get paroled?
> 
> You've got to start out on the right foot this time - the night she comes home, lie on the couch and yell, Hey, beer me out here.


Wednesday.

I bought her a beagle dog.

If it lives, I will take the kids out of daycare.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Wednesday.
> 
> I bought her a beagle dog.
> 
> If it lives, I will take the kids out of daycare.


I knew it! 

Under that hardass exterior is a real softie. That's nicer than flowers Gutpunch.


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> I knew it!
> 
> Under that hardass exterior is a real softie. That's nicer than flowers Gutpunch.


No, I don't want her killing my kids. 

Once the experiment is over. I'll take the cute little dog out back
and put a bullet in it's head and the wife can watch.


----------



## zillard

Bullwinkle said:


> Damn, Z.


Bw, do you think any woman wants to carry heavy boxes? No. 

So I let her know that I am strong and capable. I do not need her help. But if she wants to please me, here is a way to do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Z's got the stuff figured out. 

You need a green dot by your forum name.


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> Bw, do you think any woman wants to carry heavy boxes? No.
> 
> So I let her know that I am strong and capable. I do not need her help. But if she wants to please me, here is a way to do that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sure she can think of additional ways.


----------



## zillard

Conrad said:


> I'm sure she can think of additional ways.


Yes. she offered "dinner" with my beer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> No, I don't want her killing my kids.
> 
> Once the experiment is over. I'll take the cute little dog out back
> and put a bullet in it's head and the wife can watch.


I don't know if you have to kill it right away. Since you can't really kick your W to let off steam, go get a dog you can kick around. I get it now. Smart thinking. The gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## LongWalk

Funny but I think I mentioned getting a dog to Shadow. And I suggested he watch The Panic in Needle Park because the heroin addicts buy a love puppy on Staten Island. Happy day until on the ferry back to Manhattan they get high and allow the dog to fall off the end of the boat into the ocean. Oops

You cannot see the scene with dog in trailer but at 5:29 the junkie wife slaps her junkie husband (Al Pacino) in the face for his carelessness. The whole film was on YouTube a couple of years ago, but now there just a few bits.

The dog test.

If you wife has too much time on her hands with the beagle add a lab puppy.

GP, I realize you are probably sick of analysing this what happened, but the failed R when your wife said you didn't deserve to be her crutch. That was actually honesty on her part, but she couldn't bear to tell you that she fallen back into addiction. Is that correct?

You must have asked her about it. Moving and painful. What a misunderstanding.


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> No, I don't want her killing my kids.
> 
> Once the experiment is over. I'll take the cute little dog out back
> and put a bullet in it's head and the wife can watch.


I'm not OK with animal cruelty talk 

Also, please consider doing her a favor and not having beer or any other alcohol in the house when she is fresh out of rehab. I know her main thing was pills, but alcohol can easily be substituted or elicit cravings that take them back to whatever drug of choice.

Not to be Debbie Downer, but this addiction stuff is no jokey. I realize you have every reason not to sympathize (and you may still have resentments to work through), but being supportive of her recovery is the best gift you can give her. 

Sincerely, A12


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> Funny but I think I mentioned getting a dog to Shadow. And I suggested he watch The Panic in Needle Park because the heroin addicts buy a love puppy on Staten Island. Happy day until on the ferry back to Manhattan they get high and allow the dog to fall off the end of the boat into the ocean. Oops
> 
> You cannot see the scene with dog in trailer but at 5:29 the junkie wife slaps her junkie husband (Al Pacino) in the face for his carelessness. The whole film was on YouTube a couple of years ago, but now there just a few bits.
> 
> The dog test.
> 
> If you wife has too much time on her hands with the beagle add a lab puppy.
> 
> GP, I realize you are probably sick of analysing this what happened, but the failed R when your wife said you didn't deserve to be her crutch. That was actually honesty on her part, but she couldn't bear to tell you that she fallen back into addiction. Is that correct?
> 
> You must have asked her about it. Moving and painful. What a misunderstanding.


I have asked her about it.

I thought she was clean. 

She lied. She was far from clean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Awakening2012 said:


> I'm not OK with animal cruelty talk
> 
> Also, please consider doing her a favor and not having beer or any other alcohol in the house when she is fresh out of rehab. I know her main thing was pills, but alcohol can easily be substituted or elicit cravings that take them back to whatever drug of choice.
> 
> Not to be Debbie Downer, but this addiction stuff is no jokey. I realize you have every reason not to sympathize (and you may still have resentments to work through), but being supportive of her recovery is the best gift you can give her.
> 
> Sincerely, A12


Roger that no animal cruelty jokes.

Just feeding my Alabama stereotype.

No booze in the house. Roger that.

Not a prob until alcoholic dad comes and visits.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

Awakening2012 said:


> I'm not OK with animal cruelty talk
> 
> Sincerely, A12


My apologies, A12. I would never really hurt an animal. 

I was just thinking I hoped no ASPCA folks were seeing this thread. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> I have asked her about it.
> 
> I thought she was clean.
> 
> She lied. She was far from clean.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That must have been one of the darkest days of her life. Hurts just to think about it.

re: the South
Live in Europe but grew up in Michigan. While visiting last summer I took my two daughters on my only every trip South. Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee. We drove on the back roads among the shacks and churches. Stopped to look at the dead snake in the road. Cumberland gap. Knoxville sure looked nicer than a lot of cities in the rust belt.

Wish I were younger so I could travel all over the US.


----------



## Bullwinkle

God, I love this thread. 

Women getting beers for men. Buying a beagle for Loving Wife and then shooting it out in the yard. 

No TAMSPEAK. 

GP, the only thing that would make this better is you're at the baseball field right now cold-****ing coaches.


----------



## GutPunch

I'm at the ballfield now. It's the wives that 
worry me. As Conrad would say, they hate me but 
subconsciously they want to sleep with me. 

Either that or they really do hate me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> I'm at the ballfield now. It's the wives that
> worry me. As Conrad would say, they hate me but
> subconsciously they want to sleep with me.
> 
> Either that or they really do hate me.


Not necessarily mutually exclusive.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Indeed, Z. 

What you want is for the wives to call you terrible names and then beat the absolute SHYT out of you, but then make you their love slave. You know, under the bleachers with the potato chip bags and cigarette butts.


----------



## ReGroup

The women find something dark and mysterious about GP.

I say go on a tangent. Intrigue them more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, it's dark there now, you're either at Dairy Queen with your boys or in a holding cell.


----------



## GutPunch

I am washing a$$es right now. 

Getting these turds ready for bed.

So what do I do with this dog. I tried to
feed it my leftover fried chicken livers and it
culled them. What do you feed these things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Beats the SHYT out of me, GP. If it were a Boston dog we feed em broken glass and cigar butts. 

Thought you were goona shoot him anyways.


----------



## GutPunch

When I was a kid we just scraped our plates
off the deck into the yard.

What's she me want me to do?

Grill her a steak. These dogs are getting
spoiled these days.

I bet you if I don't feed her all week 
she'll eat chicken livers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Agreed after a few days that sumbytch will eat ANYTHING. I'd grill the steak and then eat it in front of the dog.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> I'm at the ballfield now. It's the wives that
> worry me. As Conrad would say, they hate me but
> subconsciously they want to sleep with me.
> 
> Either that or they really do hate me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude every woman has a little crazy in them. We all know that by now.

Those mothers hate you and want to sleep with you. That is just normal for them.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> I am washing a$$es right now.
> 
> Getting these turds ready for bed.
> 
> So what do I do with this dog. I tried to
> feed it my leftover fried chicken livers and it
> culled them. What do you feed these things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's easy.

Feed the kids to the dog. That threat will get the kids in bed real fast.


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> That's easy.
> 
> Feed the kids to the dog. That threat will get the kids in bed real fast.


This little beagle isn't going to scare anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

What did your wife name it? Male or female? To remove gonads or not, that is the question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> What did your wife name it? Male or female? To remove gonads or not, that is the question.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lucy...Wife doesn't get here until tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> So what do I do with this dog. I tried to feed it my leftover fried chicken livers and it
> culled them. What do you feed these things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Umm, dog food?


----------



## GutPunch

What's dog food?

They have special food just for dogs.

What's next, dog grocery stores.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

there was a class offered in animal psychiatry when i was at UTC

SMH


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> there was a class offered in animal psychiatry when i was at UTC
> 
> SMH


Hmmm...Dog smells steak and dog salivates.

Let's take the rest of the day off and think about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, after Wifey returns, feed that dog what I use to give WS's dog when he pissed me off - a jar of salsa and a 16 oz can of Old Milwaukee, then lock it in the house.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> GP, after Wifey returns, feed that dog what I use to give WS's dog when he pissed me off - a jar of salsa and a 16 oz can of Old Milwaukee, then lock it in the house.


Dog will be begging for the bullet. No can do....hardwood floors.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Understand. 

Remember Psych 101? Pavlov's Dog? You were on to something yesterday with the starvation diet.

Special plans for tomorrow? You taking her out to dinner?


----------



## LongWalk

What happened to her lonely apartment? Could do Lucy's house training there.


----------



## GutPunch

Im still footing the bill. Full of brand new furniture too. Wonder who's gonna pick up payments on that too. Shyt I don't even no what to do with it. Nice stuff however.

I guess if she doesn't submit to my truth wand I'll put her back in it and marry the beagle.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I guess if she doesn't submit to my truth wand I'll put her back in it and marry the beagle.


Glad you got a female beagle. 

Course, when referring to the biyatch at home, you'd be technically correct. 

.

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

She comes home tomorrow, right, GP?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> She comes home tomorrow, right, GP?


LOL...BW. yes tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> What's dog food?
> 
> They have special food just for dogs.
> 
> What's next, dog grocery stores.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I know you will be a good steward to that sweet innocent dog, no matter what -- as for your your wife? We'll find out how thigs go very soon with her homecoming tomorrow -- praying for you both and you family  

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

I was going to suggest you be a good Beta male and make her a lovely dinner of cracked crab and French green beans, followed by a foot rub and then listening to her for three hours. 

But now I think you should order a pizza.


----------



## Tron

Bullwinkle said:


> GP
> 
> I was going to suggest you be a good Beta male and make her a lovely dinner of cracked crab and French green beans, followed by a foot rub and then listening to her for three hours.
> 
> But now I think you should order a pizza.


...and finish all the beer in the house.


----------



## GutPunch

She can fix dinner. duh!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> She can fix dinner. duh!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Make me a pot pie byatch!!!


----------



## old timer

Make me a pot pie - or get out...
and take your damn dog with you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

On a serious note, how are the kids with the imminent return of their mother?

Happy, sad, apprehensive?

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

Wait until Mrs. GP catches wind of this rebel who's been terrorizing Lil' League Parks everywhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> On a serious note, how are the kids with the imminent return of their mother?
> 
> Happy, sad, apprehensive?
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Super happy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, tomorrow, you have to give us a blow by blow (pardon the expression) account of what transpires. 

Her pissing you off in the first five minutes. You bringing up the Garden Gnome. Her saying she wishes she was back at Rehab. You kicking the beagle.


----------



## Stella Moon

Don't kick the beagle... lol


----------



## Stella Moon

kick the garden gnome...thems things should be kicked...I have a couple...thinkin' bout kickin' 'em...or doin..the bat... 
they were stbxh's....


----------



## Tron

old timer said:


> On a serious note, how are the kids with the imminent return of their mother?
> 
> Happy, sad, apprehensive?
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



On a serious note, how is Gutpunch with the imminent return of his former WW?

Happy, sad, apprehensive?


----------



## LongWalk

Usually when BS does nice things for a WW posters rush forth with admonishments, denouncing WW for her lack of remorse. When Dday 2 came and GP went all out to save his wife, no one uttered a word . All of his cynical humor was facade. The question now is whether FWW can or will work as a pharmacist again. Will she be a SAHM? Dare they have more children? Will the beagle be a sniffer dog.

Yes, GP, you might with your dour baseball dad face tell your wife that Lucy can smell drugs. I vote for Lucy to keep her ovaries and make any unplanned puppies WW's responsibility. If the litters look different, she must explain to the kids that Lucy cannot remember who her boyfriends are. That's the difference between dogs and people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Tron...I would say that I am happy for my kids. For me..the word still
comes to mind.

LW...I don't feel like I rescued her. I dumped her sorry butt
off at rehab. She is the Mother of my kids. They did the rescuing.

Drug sniffing dog now that's brilliant.

One thing I have learned from this process is that sometimes stuff doesn't
go to plan. Don't let your fears for the future ruin the present.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dollystanford

Don't fear the future darling - grab it by the balls and give it a cheeky squeeze


----------



## GutPunch

Sweet. Love me some Dolly.

I've hit the big time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dollystanford

It's Dolly's birthday, she's spreading the love


----------



## GutPunch

I'll put my WW back in her apartment if you'll come 
to backwoods Alabama and be my British nanny.

Happy Birthday, Dolly!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

Stella Moon said:


> kick the garden gnome...thems things should be kicked.......


Stella you're from the Windy City. Which one of these Southern guys been teachun yous how to tawlk Suthurn?

'ol timer grins and walks to water cooler


----------



## Dollystanford

GutPunch said:


> I'll put my WW back in her apartment if you'll come
> to backwoods Alabama and be my British nanny.
> 
> Happy Birthday, Dolly!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you want your kids to learn how to mix the perfect martini, dance to disco tunes, swear with style and drive a manual car properly then sure


----------



## Chuck71

Wonders if Dolly can tease her hair up, wear tight top and cut off blue jeans and dance to Southern rock such as 

38 Special -1983 If I'd Have Been the One - YouTube


----------



## Dollystanford

There's an awful lot of hair in that video


----------



## Chuck71

that was the 80's, southern gals had a saying

higher the hair, closer to God

keep in mind, that is Baptist talk

LOL


----------



## Dollystanford

I was talking about the guys haha
Sorry GP you can have your thread back, promise!


----------



## Bullwinkle

Best of luck today, GP.

Chucky, fabulous song choice! What the hell ever happened to Southern rock? Everytime I turn on the radio it's Beyonce or Shakira moaning.


----------



## GutPunch

Dollystanford said:


> If you want your kids to learn how to mix the perfect martini, dance to disco tunes, swear with style and drive a manual car properly then sure


I can do all those things but dance. Would you be patient enough to teach me?


----------



## Dollystanford

Hey I thought you wanted a nanny for your kids, not for you!

I was gonna go all Mary Poppins on their ass


----------



## GutPunch

That's right....the kids.

I forgot about them. 

I must have got caught up in the new nanny fog.


----------



## Dollystanford

You realise there's a difference between a nanny and a french maid right?


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Tron...I would say that I am happy for my kids. For me..the word still
> comes to mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"Still" is indeed progress. 

I like that very much. 

That bodes well if it can be maintained.


----------



## Pbartender

Dollystanford said:


> If you want your kids to learn how to mix the perfect martini, dance to disco tunes, swear with style and drive a manual car properly then sure


I've already taught my kids all that... Damn.


----------



## old timer

Dollystanford said:


> You realise there's a difference between a nanny and a french maid right?


Not so much since the Chunnel. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Nannies. French maid. I need a cold shower.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Nannies. French maid. I need a cold shower.


I thought French maids were fictional and only came out on Halloween here in the states.


----------



## Bullwinkle

On Halloween and in porn. Not that I've ever watched it, I'm just hearing this.


----------



## Dollystanford

Two pages to get to French maids
:smthumbup:


----------



## Chuck71

compromise..............french nanny


----------



## zillard

Chuck71 said:


> compromise..............french nanny


Zut Alors!


----------



## GutPunch

I think this wife thing is going to cut into my TAM
time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

The newbies need you.

Whats the atmosphere like?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> I think this wife thing is going to cut into my TAM
> time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ya think?

Enjoy the evening. Enjoy the HB while it lasts. I've got high hopes for you two. 

Come talk to us when you need to vent. Or go kick the dog.


----------



## Stella Moon

Chuck71 said:


> Stella you're from the Windy City. Which one of these Southern guys been teachun yous how to tawlk Suthurn?
> 
> 'ol timer grins and walks to water cooler


Might be from that dang farmer down the street who keeps coming over to mow my lawn...:scratchhead: nice guy...but talks weird...


----------



## Bullwinkle

Damn, Punch, WTF! 

We're all dying here for some details. You go out to dinner? Wild monkey sex on the kitchen floor?

Come on...


----------



## Chuck71

wild thought but any one think a TAM wife swap would bring good ratings?


----------



## Bullwinkle

I'll swap Frostine right now with any takers.


----------



## Chuck71

:rofl:

Even Mrs. ReG?


----------



## old timer

Bullwinkle said:


> I'll swap Frostine right now with any takers.


You're on. 

BFH isn't that good in the sack, tho

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Northern Monkey

Omg, could be so funny, except they would all put their public face on and make it seem we're the nuts ones.

Sorry I mean like we're the only nuts ones. I embrace my nuttiness, not gonna lie.


----------



## GutPunch

Day one complete. 

I'm kind of numb to everything.

She has to call every morning to see 
if she has drug test for 5 years.

Imagine thats gonna suck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Northern Monkey

I'd imagine so.

Has she said how she feels about it?


----------



## GutPunch

About coming home? 

She seems happy. I hope it's
true. 

I don't want to live with a Debbie Downer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

You made it through, you are a good man GP. 

And please don't kick the dog 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> Day one complete.
> 
> I'm kind of numb to everything.
> 
> She has to call every morning to see
> if she has drug test for 5 years.
> 
> Imagine thats gonna suck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Peeing into that cup provides jobs to the pathology lab techs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> She seems happy. I hope it's true.


Come on GP, she has wanted this since the day you kicked her out.



GutPunch said:


> I don't want to live with a Debbie Downer.


She doesn't either...

Live in the moment a bit, appreciate what you have and get started rebuilding.


----------



## Chuck71

Numb is to be expected. It was what, last fall when your house was on a 'daily routine.' To put this in perspective, your children went a school year in this 'up in the air' setting, beginning to end. Slowly things will begin to resemble normalcy.

But there is the question of how normal. She is already aware you have set boundaries. It will be smart to define those as the days go on. There is the instinct things will more quickly go back to normal if we just go back to the way it was. Works for a couple years, then the cycle is re-born.

Focus, day by day. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

Best of luck, lotts a people here rooting for you


----------



## GutPunch

Wife swap....We are the last people on earth who need to swap wives.

I'm pretty sure our new wives would charm our pants off all while texting some other dude about what a piece of sh*t we were.

Uhhh...No thanks. Don't plan on actively participating in that dynamic.

Despite that, BOOBERS do intrigue me.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch -

All these esoterics and musings are admirable but I think I speak for most of us when I ask - did you get some.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Punch -
> 
> All these esoterics and musings are admirable but I think I speak for most of us when I ask - did you get some.


She got some.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, best answer of all time.


----------



## LongWalk

GP is a dopamine pusher, but you knew that already
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

On a forum awash with Beta males, GP remains a shining beacon for the few Alphas still breathing.


----------



## old timer

Hmmphh. 

Make beg like dog. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Bullwinkle said:


> On a forum awash with Beta males, GP remains a shining beacon for the few Alphas still breathing.


Death of the alpha male

Our current socio-economic set up allows most people to survive and have children without being all that challenged by nature. This ensures that there will be more and more beta males. Many attributes that might have been fatal are now given an evolutionary passing grade.

Maybe socio-biologists a 500 years from now will study this thread and discuss GP's statistical status as a trend fighter.


----------



## Awakening2012

LongWalk said:


> Death of the alpha male
> 
> Our current socio-economic set up allows most people to survive and have children without being all that challenged by nature. This ensures that there will be more and more beta males. Many attributes that might have been fatal are now given an evolutionary passing grade.
> 
> Maybe socio-biologists a 500 years from now will study this thread and discuss GP's statistical status as a trend fighter.


LongWalk, thanks for the laughs -- I know it is not funny, but somehow I could not help giggling at this caption: "Chimp leader assassinated by gang of underlings"


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good one, A12 and LongWalk.

I hope that in my dying breath they peel the apron off me and pry the cake pan out of my grasp.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> On a forum awash with Beta males, GP remains a shining beacon for the few Alphas still breathing.


I don't think Alpha's take cheaters back.

I sure don't feel Alpha for taking mine back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Northern Monkey

Alpha vs beta is bullshyt anyway. It's about balance between them if you want to use the labels at all.

I do think you have your traits in better balance than many though GP.


----------



## zillard

Northern Monkey said:


> Alpha vs beta is bullshyt anyway. It's about balance between them if you want to use the labels at all.
> 
> I do think you have your traits in better balance than many though GP.


Yes, MMSLP is about balancing the two. 

Too much of one or the other is no bueno.


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> I don't think Alpha's take cheaters back.
> 
> I sure don't feel Alpha for taking mine back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


GP when you pushed aside the D papers and drove her to the clinic, I thought you were going to take a lot of grief from TAM. But I don't think anybody dared to run your cheating, drug addict, part time mom, wife down at all because she was still your woman. So even over the Internet, you could project your values and integrity. That counts for something if you ask me.

If you had said you forced to sign the D papers while getting coffee at Wendy's on the drive to the camp, maybe some would have cheered.

The only question is how much harm has she done to herself with the drugs? How long will it take to heal? Will she feel whole enough to meet your demands? For if she doesn't feel that she measures up, she might want to numb the pain somehow.

I suppose her sense of humor might be the best measure. If she can laugh and joke as she did before the morphine took over, then maybe she'll be ok.

Still can't imagine her sitting in that apartment by herself. Those hours without her children, planning to be high enough to be "happy" but not too high to get caught. Reading the dating site replies must have been a utterly degrading since she wanted someone who was honest and had integrity when she had lost hers.

When that little ***** Lucy has puppies with some gangster German shepherd let me know. We'll drive down and get one. Gonna give it to my sister-in-law who doesn't like dogs.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

Time will tell if you did the right thing. 

You took a chance, you risked it all, that you could forgive this SHYT. See it through. 

Then if she kicks you to the curb again, no mercy whatsoever. Like a true Alpha.


----------



## happyman64

Bullwinkle said:


> GP
> 
> Time will tell if you did the right thing.
> 
> You took a chance, you risked it all, that you could forgive this SHYT. See it through.
> 
> Then if she kicks you to the curb again, no mercy whatsoever. Like a true Alpha.


It is a true Alpha that can forgive her and love her. It is called a second chance.

It is also that same Alpha that makes his boundaries/conditions for this marriage quite clear to the WS.

Then enforces them.

That Alpha is one and the same my friends.

HM


----------



## Tron

happyman64 said:


> It is a true Alpha that can forgive her and love her. It is called a second chance.
> 
> It is also that same Alpha that makes his boundaries/conditions for this marriage quite clear to the WS.
> 
> Then enforces them.
> 
> That Alpha is one and the same my friends.
> 
> HM


Punch,

Happyman comes through with another excellent post. If there is anything that you take from your thread moving forward, it is this.

Your W may relapse but this is not a false R. Forgiveness needs to happen for you to have a successful reconciliation. It is going to be difficult enough living with her on a daily basis and dealing with everything that runs through your mind on a hourly/daily basis. 

IMO, you don't need constant reminders of what you have been through. At some point those events, those memories will need to be put away and you will need to move forward.

I hate the idea of losing you from the board, but I am going to suggest that sometime soon you close this thread and, if you think you need to, move to or start a thread on one of the other boards.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GP. Just finished reading your thread. Took me a few days like it did with BW's thread. I'm really happy for you. You are an inspiration. My situation is not exactly like yours but similar. You have a great sense of humor. I used to. Need to get that back. I wish you the best good sir. Can you tell me something? Did your WS decide to go to rehab or was it some sort of legal obligation? I'm not in the medical field (IT for me, geeks unite!), so I don't know if there is some clause somewhere that says "to keep your license, you must immediately check into rehab or risk losing it".. 

I don't think my WS will choose to take any action in my situation, so I'm 99.9% sure we're done. Like I said our situations are not exactly alike, but I am there with you on being the stable one and getting custody of my D7. My stepson13 will likely go live with his dad. I'm looking up to you (and plenty of others). Hope you stay on TAM for a while and keep us posted.

*Look for "The Emotional Rollercoaster" on this subforum if you want to see my history.


----------



## GutPunch

TheGoodGuy said:


> GP. Just finished reading your thread. Took me a few days like it did with BW's thread. I'm really happy for you. You are an inspiration. My situation is not exactly like yours but similar. You have a great sense of humor. I used to. Need to get that back. I wish you the best good sir. Can you tell me something? Did your WS decide to go to rehab or was it some sort of legal obligation? I'm not in the medical field (IT for me, geeks unite!), so I don't know if there is some clause somewhere that says "to keep your license, you must immediately check into rehab or risk losing it"..
> 
> I don't think my WS will choose to take any action in my situation, so I'm 99.9% sure we're done. Like I said our situations are not exactly alike, but I am there with you on being the stable one and getting custody of my D7. My stepson13 will likely go live with his dad. I'm looking up to you (and plenty of others). Hope you stay on TAM for a while and keep us posted.
> 
> *Look for "The Emotional Rollercoaster" on this subforum if you want to see my history.


Thanks for reading my story. My wife got cold busted at work and had to go to rehab to maintain her pharmacy license. 

I will definitely give your thread a read. 

And if it wasn't for humor, I would just be angry.....really angry.


----------



## Shaggy

GP, the only rule about what alphas would do is this:

They only do what they choose to do, and they don't look back, and they don't look for approval from anyone.


----------



## GutPunch

Shaggy said:


> GP, the only rule about what alphas would do is this:
> 
> They only do what they choose to do, and they don't look back, and they don't look for approval from anyone.


Sounds like a good way to live.


----------



## LongWalk

GP,

Are you going to let your wife rush back to a full-time job?
By all means she should keep her credentials and license current. But you seemed to dislike those weekend shifts when she couldn't take the kids. Those weekends without them weren't good for anyone. I wonder it was easier to steal drugs on Saturdays and Sundays.

The random drug tests may be blessing.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Shaggy, good line. I keep thinking how really Alpha I am, while I'm shampooing D3's hair and getting my roast out of the oven.

Punch, how goes it with WS?


----------



## HappyKaty

Bullwinkle said:


> I keep thinking how really Alpha I am, while I'm shampooing D3's hair and getting my roast out of the oven.


Awesome trumps Alpha.

Every. Single. Time.


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> GP,
> 
> Are you going to let your wife rush back to a full-time job?
> By all means she should keep her credentials and license current. But you seemed to dislike those weekend shifts when she couldn't take the kids. Those weekends without them weren't good for anyone. I wonder it was easier to steal drugs on Saturdays and Sundays.
> 
> The random drug tests may be blessing.


She will be stay at home mom for now. 

My dislike for the weekend shifts concerned her blatant cake eating. She would manipulate the custody arrangement to her benefit with no concern for the children.


----------



## GutPunch

HappyKaty said:


> Awesome trumps Alpha.
> 
> Every. Single. Time.


When you pulled the roast out, Did you wear an apron and two pot holders?


----------



## HappyKaty

GutPunch said:


> When you pulled the roast out, Did you wear an apron and two pot holders?


I think an alpha, in an apron, would be hot!


----------



## Dollystanford

GutPunch said:


> When you pulled the roast out, Did you wear an apron and two pot holders?


So many jokes, so little time


----------



## GutPunch

British Franny....I mean Nanny was not a joke.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Pulling the roast out, the lowest of low Freudian slips.

Yes, GP, I was wearing an apron, big oven mitts. I had some wildflowers in a vase, was reciting nursery rhymes with D3. The only thing missing wwere big pink fuzzy slippers. I had to do a quick "pants check" to remind myself which set of genitalia I was sporting.


----------



## LongWalk

Bullwinkle, what happened to your original thread?

re: alpha
Alpha behavior exists in business and sports. Professional and college athletes have become demi gods, a warrior caste who are adulated openly by beta males. Machiavelli says that sport has taken the place of war. You can see the edge very clearly. Hockey actually allows fighting to be part of the entertainment. MMA is pure alpha male.

One way that the super rich business man can up his sex ranking, as if he needed it, is to buy a soccer club or baseball team.

Do you consider Tiger Woods an alpha male. How did he survive the media trashing? Was that an example of Shaggy's definition of a guy who doesn't care?

I wouldn't define myself as alpha. With aging body I am playing a contact sport. A couple of months ago I brushed a guy's head, but pulled back because it's against the rules. I still went after the ball and he gave a hard elbow to the ribs. I punched him and the ref blew the whistle on me. He lost his cool and chucked the ball right at my head. I went after him to fight. I'm over 50, crazy, right.

I got 2 minutes and our team captain argued that the other guy committed a foul after the whistle blew. So we both sat out and my team wasn't hurt.

My 17-year-old daughter was watching. Afterwards everyone was asking what happened. It interested folks. There were no negative consequences. Just the opposite. Teenagers are often embarrassed by the stuff their parents do. But I don't think my daughter came away with anything but viseral respect. Dad's no weakling.

Sort of like GP's care too much baseball dad.

Not sure if roast meat is beta or alpha. But inviting a woman to dine out on bloody red steak probably gets more sex than going to vegetarian buffet.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Pulling the roast out, the lowest of low Freudian slips.
> 
> Yes, GP, I was wearing an apron, big oven mitts. I had some wildflowers in a vase, was reciting nursery rhymes with D3. The only thing missing wwere big pink fuzzy slippers. I had to do a quick "pants check" to remind myself which set of genitalia I was sporting.


I hope you did a little twirl or spin move before you set the roast on the table.


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> She will be stay at home mom for now.
> 
> My dislike for the weekend shifts concerned her blatant cake eating. She would manipulate the custody arrangement to her benefit with no concern for the children.


Did she ever tell you how she stole the pills? I'll bet she volunteered for the shıt†y shıƒts to get the management to like her more. She filled in the weekends and that gave her more of a free hand.

She was concerned about your kids and felt bad, but she took pills so that she couldn't feel it.


----------



## old timer

I maybe missed it, Gut, but was she stealing the tabs from the pharmacy, or getting them from the street?
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Stealing from the pharmacy. Got caught and shipped to rehab.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Yeah, Punch, I did a litle twirl with the roast, had The View on in the background.

Hey, I really hope WS stays clean, but if she does start thieving from the pharmacy again, you think she could mail some Oxy up here to D.C.? Just sayin....


----------



## old timer

They gotta come through Bham first, BW...j/s
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Nice touch with The View. I thought the painkillers were for the pounding she took from me in the bedroom but my counselor said that probably wasn't the case. Who knew?


----------



## Bullwinkle

Just when I thought I couldn't love this thread any more..... 

And yes, on today's episode, Joy Behart was explaining how for women, size apparently DOES matter! Made me go over and puke in the kitchen trash can to think of somebody hitting that.


----------



## old timer

Easy for her to say, there are so many sizes available in dildos. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

Hmmm...is the plural of dildo supposed to contain an "e"?

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HappyKaty

old timer said:


> Hmmm...is the plural of dildo supposed to contain an "e"?
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Hmmm...is the plural of dildo supposed to contain an "e"?
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dolly knows her English, ask her.


----------



## Shaggy

Size does matter, I wouldn't date a girl with a big behind.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Dolly knows her English, ask her.


Yeah, but she'll likely say she knows nothing of dildo(e)s, or some such rubbish. 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

Shaggy said:


> Size does matter, I wouldn't date a girl with a big behind.


Oh, you're missin out Shag.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch -

The other night, someone was saying, it's all about the BALANCE between the Alpha and the Beta. 

So If you're at the baseball field knocking some coach's teeth down his throat, you need to follow that up with cooking WS a nice dinner and telling her you want to get in touch with your feminine side.


----------



## GutPunch

Hey bi*ch bring me a beer and let me massage your feet while I drink it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Hey bi*ch bring me a beer and let me massage your feet while I drink it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Think higher.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> Hey bi*ch bring me a beer and let me massage your feet while I drink it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol awesome
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Think higher.


Even more awesome
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pbartender

Conrad said:


> Think higher.


Hrm...



GutPunch said:


> Hey bi*ch bring me a joint and let me brush your hair while I smoke it.


Is that better?


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch 

Your first weekend together with Loving Wife. 

Baseball field? Yard word together? If nothing else, give us some inappropriate sexual details.


----------



## GutPunch

I'm hanging in there BW. 

One day at a time. 

I can already tell this won't be easy.

I think I am my own worst enemy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> I'm hanging in there BW.
> 
> One day at a time.
> 
> I can already tell this won't be easy.
> 
> I think I am my own worst enemy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is hard GP when you realize half of the battle is with yourself.

I have been there.

Patience.

HM


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I'm hanging in there BW.
> 
> One day at a time.
> 
> I can already tell this won't be easy.
> 
> I think I am my own worst enemy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's easy to get used to being by yourself.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hang tough, Punch. 

Remember how excited your boys were that mama was finally coming home.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> I'm hanging in there BW.
> 
> One day at a time.
> 
> I can already tell this won't be easy.
> 
> I think I am my own worst enemy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And some days will be better than others. 

Patience.


----------



## LongWalk

You shot Lucy already?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

How goes the Married Life, Punch?

I hope she's not in the trunk of your right now as you cross the Mississippi line....

BW


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> How goes the Married Life, Punch?
> 
> I hope she's not in the trunk of your right now as you cross the Mississippi line....
> 
> BW


We are at a minor league baseball game tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Celebrating our marvelous 0-16 little league team.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Hang in there GP. How much longer is this little league season?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch

Sorry about the depressing baseball season but, like this episode with your wife, it will all just be a bad memory soon. 

I know this is classic TAMSPEAK but it's true.


----------



## GutPunch

My humor definitely resonates more with men than it does women. 

I also understand that I am a lot further along in the healing process. The gut wrenching pain and sleepless nights have faded away. 

However.....THIS IS MY THREAD. 

Don't come on a thread with a bunch of dirty ole men and tell them not to be a bunch of dirty ole men. I'm crude please don't try to change me.


----------



## Awakening2012

Old? Who said anything about old? Nuthin but a bunch of stud muffins in these parts ;-)


----------



## GutPunch

Awakening2012 said:


> Old? Who said anything about old? Nuthin but a bunch of stud muffins in these parts ;-)


Amen!


----------



## Dollystanford

Was it the French maid?


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Don't come on a thread with a bunch of dirty ole men and tell them not to be a bunch of dirty ole men. I'm crude please don't try to change me.


Us change? Not holding my breath waiting for that. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

Dollystanford said:


> Was it the French maid?


Naw, Dolly. Some broad who said we were a bunch of misoggynists. I googled it. She thinks we hate wimmen. 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

What? Hate women?

If I hated women, I wouldn't be on this stupid website. 

I love me some women.


----------



## Chuck71

Good bet this gal V is accustom to going to a bar in a low cut top

and spewing 5th grade rhetoric knowing she can get away with it

because 'she got da snatch'.........may work in a bar

this does not resemble a bar

you can tell VVV hasn't been called out many times


----------



## Chaparral

What she meant to say is that the folks on this thread are not politically correct. What she misses is that modern, progressive thinking is what got us where we are. When I think of how happy my grandparents were compared to people nowadays it is truly a revelation. My grannie did not have running water until very late in her life, she raised ten loving children and was the happiest and Godly women I ever met. I am so proud to be her grandson.

Washing clothes on Monday in cold water with a ringer washer, raising a garden the size of Texas by herself, raising chickens, babysitting multitudes of grandchildren and making them all mind, cooking like I haven't seen since, etc. etc. ad infinitum

Veronica, (_The misogyny on this thread takes my breath away._), thinking about my grandmother makes me feel sad for you that this thought even comes from your mind. Happiness comes from with in.


----------



## old timer

And, for the record, I'm not getting old - my children are 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## veronicawalls

I am sorry. I came in here and picked a fight because I was getting a lot of **** on my thread from GP.


----------



## Chaparral

Re, Little League

My son had a great coach his first year of machine pitch. Ditto that fall for fall ball. Both coaches told me they would not coach the next year so I volunteered the next spring. I did not have a lot of confidence but I new I could do better than most of the volunteer dads. We had tryouts where you drafted your kids the next day.

To make a long story short, we did great. Mainly by practicing more that the other teams and focusing on simple fundamentals. BTW, both coaches kept coaching and were disappointed they could not draft my son. I was like, dude, you told me you weren't coaching.

One of the coaches had a terrible season though he was a great coach (bad drafting though). The other coach and I had great teams, way better than any of the other 7 teams.

I coached all the way through Babe Ruth League and also basketball, all due to the lack of more experienced fathers not having time, lol. ALL my teams did great, including some undefeated seasons. (It does get harder as the players mature and become more independent). Many of my kids got to play high school sports and were great athletes. 

My son became a high school all star and his play amazed me. Best player on his team, many awards. One 14 game winning streak against much bigger schools. Beat every good team in the region but came up one pitcher short in the finals to go to state.

Soooooo, try coaching fall ball or next spring, I have no regrets and would not have guessed how much I loved it. Just be patient and focus on the fundamentals. You can teach a kid to catch and hit and be a decent player in one season, never give up on one.

The parents, my first year, gave me $100 dollars in gift certificates to Tony Roma's restaurants. I was truly touched and knew I was so lucky.


----------



## old timer

V, I've only glanced over your thread, could be you and I share a common story.

I'll check it out in more detail later.

One thing for sure - we really don't hate women here. Far from it.

.


----------



## familyfirst09

I guess I'm not a regular women (ha so true!) But I don't find anything offensive at all, hell this is one of my fav threads!!

And I don't know why mysgony or whatever that word was anyway 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch

My wife called me a misogynist once and looking back, it was about 24 hours later that I got a picture of her lavender panties drying on OM's shower rod. 

An old country song comes to mind, 

"Get Your Buscuits in the Oven and Your Buns in the Bed".


----------



## LongWalk

Σχεδόν σε κάθε γάμο, υπάρχει μια εγωιστική και μια ανιδιοτελής εταίρος. Ένα πρότυπο που έχει συσταθεί και σύντομα γίνεται άκαμπτη, από ένα άτομο κάνει πάντα τις απαιτήσεις και ένα άτομο δίνοντας πάντα τον τρόπο.

Iris Murdoch

Όταν δύο άνθρωποι είναι κάτω από την επιρροή της η πιο βίαιη, πιο τρελό, πιο απατηλή και πιο παροδική από τα πάθη, που είναι υποχρεωμένοι να ορκιστούν ότι θα παραμείνουν σε αυτό το ενθουσιασμένοι, ανώμαλη και κουραστική κατάσταση συνεχώς μέχρι το θάνατό τους κάνει μέρος.

George Bernard Shaw

If it's written Greek, it must be true. Link


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> Σχεδόν σε κάθε γάμο, υπάρχει μια εγωιστική και μια ανιδιοτελής εταίρος. Ένα πρότυπο που έχει συσταθεί και σύντομα γίνεται άκαμπτη, από ένα άτομο κάνει πάντα τις απαιτήσεις και ένα άτομο δίνοντας πάντα τον τρόπο.
> 
> Iris Murdoch
> 
> Όταν δύο άνθρωποι είναι κάτω από την επιρροή της η πιο βίαιη, πιο τρελό, πιο απατηλή και πιο παροδική από τα πάθη, που είναι υποχρεωμένοι να ορκιστούν ότι θα παραμείνουν σε αυτό το ενθουσιασμένοι, ανώμαλη και κουραστική κατάσταση συνεχώς μέχρι το θάνατό τους κάνει μέρος.
> 
> George Bernard Shaw
> 
> If it's written Greek, it must be true. Link




Huge GB Shaw fan here, nice touch LW!


----------



## LongWalk

Chuck71 said:


> Huge GB Shaw fan here, nice touch LW!


Thank GP for The Great thread
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

So, Punch, I'm sitting here trying to think of something moderately offensive to put on your thread, try to piss somebody off. 

And when is your wife going back to work, I'm running low on Oxys up here.... might have to hold up a 7-11 soon.


----------



## GutPunch

I'm just sitting in the lobby of the MC's office.

Oh joy! What has come of my life?

I hope she's hot too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> So, Punch, I'm sitting here trying to think of something moderately offensive to put on your thread, try to piss somebody off.
> 
> And when is your wife going back to work, I'm running low on Oxys up here.... might have to hold up a 7-11 soon.


She's gonna be a stay at home mom for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> She's gonna be a stay at home mom for a while.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Free childcare for the Summer. Nice!

I actually like this...for a lot of reasons.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> She's gonna be a stay at home mom for a while.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe she'll actually appreciate it.


----------



## GutPunch

Well she's not hot...however

MC...Do you always use humor to cope with your anger?

GP...Why yes I do.

She's a keeper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Bullwinkle said:


> Punch
> 
> My wife called me a misogynist once and looking back, it was about 24 hours later that I got a picture of her lavender panties drying on OM's shower rod.
> 
> An old country song comes to mind,
> 
> "Get Your Buscuits in the Oven and Your Buns in the Bed".


If anyone can make a man a "hater of women" then Frostine is that person BW.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Can't argue it, Haps. Sometimes I think castration and life as a eunuch woulda been so much easier....

Punch, this is working out great, the wife's at home cooking dinner and you meet MC for a coffee.


----------



## staystrong

I'm a massagynist myself.


----------



## staystrong

"Get Your Biscuits in the Oven and Your Buns in the Bed".

^ Ha! I'll have to remember that one.


----------



## GutPunch

Well I'm struggling folks. We met with first session with MC yesterday. I was open and honest. My wife was very emotional to
put it mildly. She owned her mistakes and was extremely remorseful.

Here's the problem....I just sat there and really DGAF.

I have got to see past my anger and resentment or we are doomed.

She also picked up smoking at the funny farm. F'n yuck.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Well I'm struggling folks. We met with first session with MC yesterday. I was open and honest. My wife was very emotional to
> put it mildly. She owned her mistakes and was extremely remorseful.
> 
> Here's the problem....I just sat there and really DGAF.
> 
> I have got to see past my anger and resentment or we are doomed.
> 
> She also picked up smoking at the funny farm. F'n yuck.


I won't 2x4 you yet.

Realize this, she will likely need "some" addictive behavior to kick the narcotics. It's a substitute.

She can quit smoking later.

Have you two read "His Needs Her Needs"?


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> Well I'm struggling folks. We met with first session with MC yesterday. I was open and honest. My wife was very emotional to
> put it mildly. She owned her mistakes and was extremely remorseful.
> 
> Here's the problem....I just sat there and really DGAF.
> 
> I have got to see past my anger and resentment or we are doomed.
> 
> She also picked up smoking at the funny farm. F'n yuck.


Hi GP -

I think you are dead on about the anger and resentment -- it will be hard for you to emotionally connect with her and rekindle the love if you can't shake those feelings. For my XH, he directly attributes his inability to get over those negative emotions to our undoing, in terms of R ever even being in the cards. An excerpt from my XH's final rejoinder last evening:

"I can't explain why I wasn't able to get past the anger and resentment. Al-Anon is helping me understand and cope. Maybe time will be our friend."

He told me he is still going once a week to a men's Al-Anon meeting, and it seems has actually found ithelpful (for his own healing -- too late for our marriage). I don't know if this is something you could consider, but hearing from other men who have gone through (or are going through) the same thing could be helpful for you. And it would provide a supportive place to vent your anger with men who have walked in your shoes.

Just a thought. Hang in there, and be well.

Best Wishes, - A12


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> I won't 2x4 you yet.
> 
> Realize this, she will likely need "some" addictive behavior to kick the narcotics. It's a substitute.
> 
> She can quit smoking later.
> 
> Have you two read "His Needs Her Needs"?


I have got the book. I have not read it. Should we. 

I start breaking out self-help books, Mrs. GP will ask what I
have done with her husband.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I have got the book. I have not read it. Should we.
> 
> I start breaking out self-help books, Mrs. GP will ask what I
> have done with her husband.


You might be surprised by her reaction to it.

It is time.

There's much insight in there. You'll be able to map out where it went wrong.

Now, it's not a magic pill.

If you can imagine a young Conrad getting his hands on that info - and figuring it's the playbook for a happy life.

So, I immerse myself in it every day.

My ex confessed she "finally" read it about six months before I walked out (TEN YEARS LATER).


----------



## GutPunch

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi GP -
> 
> I think you are dead on about the anger and resentment -- it will be hard for you to emotionally connect with her and rekindle the love if you can't shake those feelings. For my XH, he directly attributes his inability to get over those negative emotions to our undoing, in terms of R ever even being in the cards. An excerpt from my XH's final rejoinder last evening:
> 
> "I can't explain why I wasn't able to get past the anger and resentment. Al-Anon is helping me understand and cope. Maybe time will be our friend."
> 
> He told me he is still going once a week to a men's Al-Anon meeting, and it seems has actually found ithelpful (for his own healing -- too late for our marriage). I don't know if this is something you could consider, but hearing from other men who have gone through (or are going through) the same thing could be helpful for you. And it would provide a supportive place to vent your anger with men who have walked in your shoes.
> 
> Just a thought. Hang in there, and be well.
> 
> Best Wishes, - A12


Thanks A12,

My time is maxed out at the moment. I went to one meeting in the beginning a sobbed like a baby. The affair is where I am struggling. I am constantly resisting the urge to persecute. However, this anger just builds up inside me.


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> Thanks A12,
> 
> My time is maxed out at the moment. I went to one meeting in the beginning a sobbed like a baby. The affair is where I am struggling. I am constantly resisting the urge to persecute. However, this anger just builds up inside me.


Gotcha, makes sense. FWIW, my XH said he sobbed at his first Al-Anon meeting, too (broke my heart to hear it, but I was glad he let his hurt feelings out -- I think it is so difficult for guys to be vulnerable!). It doesn't excuse anything to realize she wasn't in her right mind when she made that huge mistake and committed a betrayal. But now her remorsefulness plus staying clean, being a good wife and Mom are the only ways she can re-build trust, if you let her. If you give it time and start to open up in MC, let your anger out in a mediated setting, maybe it will help. 

Fingers crossed for you -- you are truly heroic the way you have handled everything, and I know it is draining! With her now home with the kids, I hope that will free you up to start doing some things for YOU. Such as getting to a sports event with a buddy, working out, etc. 

Hang in there!

Best Wishes, A12


----------



## Conrad

A12,

The issue isn't vulnerable.

It's vulnerable with boundaries.

The whole "niceguy" garbage is a response to the idea that women want us to talk about our feelings.

Of course, some guys hear that and start angling for the Victim Chair.

That never works.


----------



## Chuck71

It would have been easier for you to forgive her if she cheated and walked away. Your anger is awash because you are trying to forgive. Emotions run in pairs. You want to, for yourself, the kids and the person she was at one time. But this anger circles, as does your pride. Do you find yourself wondering if you did forgive, would you hate yourself for it six months from now? Exact thing which happened to me years ago.

How will you address the one year ann. of DDay, Thanksgiving w/o her, Christmas w/o her. Dates are triggers, or were for me. Today would have been our ann. Twenty four years ago, I graduated high school, fourteen I was married. Which means nothing about my future from here on but definitely defined who I was in the past.

You're a smart guy GP, I know you have already ran this through your mind. It's just the outcome you are not sure on.

with people who have serious drug issues, a switch from pills or hard drugs to a cancer stick is seen as a win from a rehab's POV


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> It would have been easier for you to forgive her if she cheated and walked away. Your anger is awash because you are trying to forgive. Emotions run in pairs. You want to, for yourself, the kids and the person she was at one time. But this anger circles, as does your pride. Do you find yourself wondering if you did forgive, would you hate yourself for it six months from now? Exact thing which happened to me years ago.
> 
> How will you address the one year ann. of DDay, Thanksgiving w/o her, Christmas w/o her. Dates are triggers, or were for me. Today would have been our ann. Twenty four years ago, I graduated high school, fourteen I was married. Which means nothing about my future from here on but definitely defined who I was in the past.
> 
> You're a smart guy GP, I know you have already ran this through your mind. It's just the outcome you are not sure on.
> 
> with people who have serious drug issues, a switch from pills or hard drugs to a cancer stick is seen as a win from a rehab's POV


Chuck,

You are spot on as to how I'm feeling. My self esteem and pride have always been healthy. She has disturbed this with her actions. 

My sub-conscious keeps saying.....she cheated...walk away.

What is sad here is that I see all the other WAW's on these threads and their husbands pining for a second chance that never comes. Here I'm getting it and a beating myself up for taking it.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Chuck,
> 
> You are spot on as to how I'm feeling. My self esteem and pride have always been healthy. She has disturbed this with her actions.
> 
> My sub-conscious keeps saying.....she cheated...walk away.
> 
> What is sad here is that I see all the other WAW's on these threads and their husbands pining for a second chance that never comes. Here I'm getting it and a beating myself up for taking it.


And, I know how you were feeling when you DIDN'T think you were going to get that chance.

Bet you remember that as well.


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> What is sad here is that I see all the other WAW's on these threads and their husbands pining for a second chance that never comes. Here I'm getting it and a beating myself up for taking it.


You're not getting the second chance, you're giving it -- so maybe that's part of what you resent (e.g. questioning whether you should be giving her this second chance).


----------



## Chuck71

This decision will define your future. You can't 'phone a friend', 'use a cheat', or 'google an answer'. You close your eyes and see you and her in a memorable moment.....then you FF to what she did. You think about the kids being born....then you FF to what she did.

The GP who desperately wanted a second chance was short lived. Lil GP was eradicated quickly. The new GP is a senior at Alabama U and are seeing the incoming freshman girls. They look at you and mutter under their breath, 'you must think you're the sh!t". Deep down you are answering with, 'I am the sh!t, and the toilet paper baby!'

Group A wants you to take her back and 'return to camelot'
Group B wants you to kick her to the curb and toss her a $4 off carton of smokes as you go.

Neither group matters in the end. At 6PM...you leave work and go home to (fill in blank). The outcome belongs to you and only you. But as fate has it....you are torn. 

Your decision will shape your children's lives forever. And this concerns you. You played the poker hand perfectly.....but why are you sitting at the table wishing you were somewhere else?


----------



## Chuck71

GutPunch said:


> Well folks, I had a large setback today. Sat by my ex at the game and chit chatted mostly. Hard not to sit by her when she has my 3 year old daughter.
> 
> During our conversation she asks me if I want to hear something strange. I say what "she says her ex-husband has reached out to her on facebook and wants to meet up to talk". She said that his wife wants them to talk. WTF!
> 
> Anyways after DDAY I wrote on facebook messenger to that dude that STBXW got addicted to drugs, cheated on me, and walked out on her children. How about warning somebody next time.
> 
> I thought it was funny, but regretted sending it as soon as I hit send. I told STBXW in the parking lot of the BBAll game what I had done. She was visibly upset. I feel terrible! I told her I was sorry and that I was angry at the time and regretted sending it. She clearly didn't want to talk any more.
> 
> Seeing her just makes me hurt! My stomach is in knots. What a setback. I just want to call her and reach out so bad. To see her hurt - it hurts me worse.




This is your post #178 on 1/5/13. FF four months


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> This is your post #178 on 1/5/13. FF four months


Turmoil.

Your feelings today are likely every bit as real as those of 4 months ago.

Sit with it awhile brother.

Get to know yourself.


----------



## Chuck71

:iagree:


----------



## GutPunch

Learn to be still, eh?


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> I have got to see past my anger and resentment or we are doomed.


It has only been 1 week. Give it some time. Be patient. You can get there. 

_His Needs Her Needs_ is a good read. What you will find is that the more good things she does that you appreciate, relate to, and enjoy the better you will feel about her and the M. If she reads it too then all the better because she will understand what the goal is.

No guarantees obviously, but hopefully the anger and resentment slowly dissipate. 




Chuck71 said:


> It would have been easier for you to forgive her if she cheated and walked away. Your anger is awash because you are trying to forgive. Emotions run in pairs. You want to, for yourself, the kids and the person she was at one time. But this anger circles, as does your pride. Do you find yourself wondering if you did forgive, would you hate yourself for it six months from now? Exact thing which happened to me years ago.


This is really spot on. The W went through these same exact emotions...and still does on rare occasion even 10 yrs later. She blows through them now pretty quickly.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Learn to be still, eh?


Always 





GutPunch said:


> She also picked up smoking at the funny farm. F'n yuck.


I am with you on this too. Maybe ask her to try one of those electronic cigarettes as an alternate. Looks like a cigarette and gives the jolt of nicotine without the horrible smell, tar in the lungs and other bad chemicals.


----------



## staystrong

Tron said:


> It has only been 1 week.


Think of it as a baseball season that you've only just begun.


----------



## staystrong

Tron said:


> Maybe ask her to try one of those electronic cigarettes as an alternate. Looks like a cigarette and gives the jolt of nicotine without the horrible smell, tar in the lungs and other bad chemicals.


This is a great idea.

I just picked up smoking again after many years of not smoking. It relaxes me but I hate that I am smoking. I am going to switch to an e-cig. My buddy has an e-pipe and loves it. No noxious smell, no second hand smoke worries with the kids, no tar, no cancer.


----------



## old timer

staystrong said:


> Think of it as a baseball season that you've only just begun.


After a 0-13 record in Little League?

Not sure that's a good analogy, lol.

.


----------



## staystrong

It's redemption time, OT!


----------



## Tron

old timer said:


> After a 0-13 record in Little League?
> 
> Not sure that's a good analogy, lol.


I was gonna say...

Hey! Football season is around the corner.


----------



## old timer

And GP's coaching this team. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

If GP is coaching a TAM football team, can HappyKat be our "tight end"?


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> If GP is coaching a TAM football team, can HappyKat be our "tight end"?


I'll ask her when she gets back.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> I have got the book. I have not read it. Should we.
> 
> I start breaking out self-help books, Mrs. GP will ask what I
> have done with her husband.


Her asking where her husband is can be a good sign GP!!!!

Read the book. Both of you.


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> And GP's coaching this team.
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How did you know. I will be roaming the sidelines, slapping some sense into some bright eyed 5,6 & 7 year olds. 

I think my title is Asst. Coach/Recruiting Coordinator


----------



## staystrong

It was only of when, not if.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> How did you know. I will be roaming the sidelines, slapping some sense into some bright eyed 5,6 & 7 year olds.
> 
> I think my title is Asst. Coach/Recruiting Coordinator


Well this is a complete turnaround from little league.

As far as the recruiting goes...lessons learned there. Picking the best kids for your team, friends be damned. I'm thinking you are going to have fun this Fall.


----------



## GutPunch

Football is his sport. He loves it. 

Made the 8 year old all star team at 6. 

He plays with a lot of raw emotion and anger.

Man...I love that boy.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Football is his sport. He loves it.
> 
> Made the 8 year old all star team at 6.
> 
> He plays with a lot of raw emotion and anger.
> 
> Man...I love that boy.


A chip off the old block, eh?


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> A chip off the old block, eh?


LOL...When I first got on TAM, they told me to DNA test the kids. My response was that it wasn't necessary. Sometimes you just know.


----------



## Tron

So, that begs the question, Bama or Auburn?


----------



## Chuck71

or........Troy State LOL


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> He plays with a lot of raw emotion and anger.


Wonder where he gets that?


----------



## Bullwinkle

Morning, Punch, how goes it?


----------



## GutPunch

Plundering thru my wife's facebook looking for a smoking gun that doesn't exist. Life is good, I think? I love living like a parole officer or warden. I guess it beats listening to Spank the Monkey by myself. 

She's off putting her counselors kids thru college. 

There's gonna be a boom in the local economy with all the money we've dropped on counseling.


----------



## Bullwinkle

LOL. 

Beats the sounds of Spank the Monkey - bound to offend someone, Punch (I hope).


----------



## old timer

Tron said:


> So, that begs the question, Bama or Auburn?


Considering GP is an engineer, I'm guessing AU


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Considering GP is an engineer, I'm guessing AU


Correct
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

Class of '75 here, Gut.

*WDE!!!*

.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Plundering thru my wife's facebook looking for a smoking gun that doesn't exist. Life is good, I think? I love living like a parole officer or warden. I guess it beats listening to Spank the Monkey by myself.
> 
> She's off putting her counselors kids thru college.
> 
> There's gonna be a boom in the local economy with all the money we've dropped on counseling.


The bitterness is eating you alive, isn't it?


----------



## Bullwinkle

When you two get done with The Class Reunion, I'd like to steer this conversation back where it belongs, about sex and drugs.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> The bitterness is eating you alive, isn't it?


I'm having some issues.

Have not persecuted though. Well...maybe a little at MC office.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I'm having some issues.
> 
> Have not persecuted though. Well...maybe a little at MC office.


How is that helpful?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> How is that helpful?


Not following....How is what helpful?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Not following....How is what helpful?


Persecuting her.


----------



## old timer

Conrad said:


> How is that helpful?


Because it just feels good?


----------



## old timer

Bullwinkle said:


> When you two get done with The Class Reunion, I'd like to steer this conversation back where it belongs, about sex and drugs.


You forgot hating wimmen and abusing animals...

.


----------



## Chuck71

I hope you address it soon GP. My ex's EA was in 2007 and after I uncovered it, she did not want to disclose any information. In truth, that was when it started to crumble. Yes it was a high school type EA, some of the emails were so "made up" I got a laugh out of it. But it was the first brick to leave 'the wall'. Had she addressed it properly....who knows.

I never fully got past that. Maybe I turned cold against her for it. I just hope your M does not end up like mine did.

Humor is good. Your thread has become hilarious 'at times'.

BW-Come down to TN and I can take you to a Lynard Skynard concert at Riverbend! There they have all the sex and drugs you would ever need!


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Persecuting her.


It's not...that's why I haven't done it. 

I would have never known these things without TAM.

I believe the old me would have handled it this way.....

GP....Would you get me a glass of water?

Mrs. GP.....Not right now. I'm kinda busy folding laundry.

GP....Not to busy to go F someone else though R U. You F'n piece of worthless sh!t.



I guess I am going to start eating Grey Poupon on my sandwiches I've matured so much.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I guess I am going to start eating Grey Poupon on my sandwiches I've matured so much.


Don't forget to raise your pinkie whilst having your tea.
.


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> How did you know. I will be roaming the sidelines, slapping some sense into some bright eyed 5,6 & 7 year olds.
> 
> I think my title is Asst. Coach/Recruiting Coordinator


Team is going to win.

You're gonna to have to moderate the irony with 6-year-olds. 

(The TAM spell check suggested "gonna" instead "going")


----------



## Bullwinkle

Damn, GP, your suggested line about not being to busy to F the Garden Gnome - I have used that line a couple of times and you know what? I meant it that time and I stand by it now. Too busy to check on me when I'm home injured? But not too busy to be washing out the lavender panties in OM's sink.


----------



## Bullwinkle

And Lynard Skynard, doesn't get any better than that.


----------



## GutPunch

Last game...We haven't won a game all season.

Down two runs in the last inning. Man on first 

my boy is at the plate. POW! Two

run hr to right field.

Umpires meet send my boy back to first 
and call the runner on first out.

The ball had grazed the runner on first leg.

R U kidding me. FML
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

And of course they ask the parents at this age to stay the F out of it.. Hang in there GP. At this point it's just par for the course right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Perfect season.

He made contact with ball. For a kid that is the most important thing.


----------



## Chuck71

30 years ago, I had my best season in baseball

I was pretty danm good but only because "the Coach"

GP this month, May, took me back those years, 1983

he taught me and others more than the game itself

your baseball stories may have had a bit to do with my reflection

will not do it without your ok, but I'd like to post the 

article on your thread.


----------



## GutPunch

Post away Chuck. I didn't protest the call. 

I know the rules. Just broke my heart. 

Some weird voodoo curse on that team.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

At least it's over, Punch. Now on to football.


----------



## staystrong

Bullwinkle said:


> At least it's over, Punch. Now on to football.


Exactly. 

GP, you going to try and coach next fall?


----------



## GutPunch

IDK...depends on my work and wife
situations.

I am helping with football.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> It's not...that's why I haven't done it.
> 
> I would have never known these things without TAM.
> 
> I believe the old me would have handled it this way....
> 
> GP....Would you get me a glass of water?
> 
> Mrs. GP.....Not right now. I'm kinda busy folding laundry.
> 
> GP....Not to busy to go F someone else though R U. You F'n piece of worthless sh!t.
> 
> 
> I guess I am going to start eating Grey Poupon on my sandwiches I've matured so much.


First, thank you for the Grey Poupon joke. I almost spit out my drink, I wasn't expecting a zinger at the end of that post. Now that you've matured, you could change your username to Grey Poupon and still be called GP. 

Your anger is there, just dormant. Part of you still really WANTS to persecute her but is holding back. The tests will come if either of you start slipping back into old habits, if a fight ensues, you come across triggers, .. well, you know this already. You could be sitting taking a crap one day and it could all come back in a rush. Hope you're finding a physical outlet for your anger.


----------



## Chuck71

Mean Coach, Great Coach



We all recall the handful of teachers we did not like in school. We also remember the handful who inspired us. Others come into our lives during our childhood and only stay a brief moment. But what they leave are foundations of learning we will carry with us for decades. The year was 1983, thirty years ago. Ron Kittle was the new sensation in baseball, Pac-Man was 'the bomb', and stores began selling some crazy new music thing called compact discs.

I had moderate success playing baseball as a youth. My first three years were spent at Fullbright Park, now a multi-story bank across the street from xxxxx High School. My first year at Fullbright I saw one home run hit, by Scott G. I remember thinking he was going to be the next Babe Ruth. Most coaches were willing to teach the game to all the children who were present. In my last year playing at Fullbright, I was picked by the Cardinals. One coach was Ralph Cxxxxx. 

He always could tell I was stepping away from the ball as I swung. No one wants to get hit by a pitch but you can not be afraid of the ball. He placed a large tire behind me. If I stepped away, I would fall. I fell a few times. But it did not take too long to realize, straighten up your swing or have fun dusting yourself off constantly. Another drawback I brought to the team was my inability to pay attention in the outfield. Being, then, someone with undiagnosed ADHD, Coach C would have a fit with me.

 Coach C had an assistant coach in the summer of 1982 who worked extensively with the younger players. At the time, the league was a two-year one and the upcoming players had to fight and claw for playing time. I did not get to play as much, granted the older players were quite a bit better than I. The other coach taught us how to field properly, to throw correctly, and how to utilize pitch selection when at the plate. And to beat it all.....after practice, he would make us run!

As the season wore on, the best record was on the line between a few teams. Two of them were, the Cardinals....and the Cubs. I kid you not, the Cubs pitcher (then) resembled Randy Johnson as a child. Excellent control and a fastball which screamed. The best I recall, K Geren hit a home run off of him and came back to the dugout telling us to keep our eye on the ball, it's not that fast. The game entered the last inning tied and I was the fifth player to bat. I was placed in the game late and to be honest, was not expected to have an at-bat. If you asked me that day, it would have been fine with me.

As karma likes to do, two players reached base, two did not. Yeah....there I walk my nervous butt up to the plate. Thanks a lot karma. I tried to dig in and not look scared to death. On the third pitch I eyed the ball best I could and swung. I felt the bat hit the ball and I knew....run to first. I never saw where the ball landed (was told it was a liner to right field) but I was mobbed at first base. Cardinals win! Coach C gave $1 to the 'star of the game' and I can't remember if that was my first hit the whole year. But it was nice to be the hero for a change. The other coach mentioned to me after the game, it was a great swing but I still stepped a tad away from the plate. At first it was a buzz kill but it let me know, he expected more from me. 

The next season was at the 'then' new complex, Industrial Park. Dudley Sxxx was one of the coaches and I will never forget, if you lagged on a play, he would call us a "washwoman". The coach from the year before returned and expected better things from all of us who returned. The mental errors and not giving 110% was not accepted. 100% was good last year, not 1983. He convinced us we are now the leaders of the team since the older players advanced to an older league. Coach gave a lot but he expected a lot from us.

I was hesitant to buy into his system at first. After the first game, I realized....he knew what he was talking about. At this time, me getting a hit in a game was awesome! Getting three....unheard of. He told us that no one will believe in us until we believe in ourselves. Fast forward to May 13, the Cardinals were playing the Braves. Coach stressed us to stay focused and keep out eye on the ball. I hit my first home run with (as Coach S said)....with fifty feet to spare. I ran the bases like I was running on clouds. I thought to myself, this is what Hank Aaron and Dale Murphy feel like.

1983 was the best year I had in baseball by far. Coach C from the year before and Coach S did a lot to help me along but the other coach, held me accountable. He saw the potential in me and the other players from the year before. After hitting a home run in our next game, I got a little 'big headed'. After showboating on a couple of plays, Coach pulled me from the game. I was flabbergasted! At first he would not tell me why but he eventually come over and said, "You are a good player, you're a leader for this team. You think you're better than everyone else and you may be. But you are not bigger than the team. So ride the pine hotshot." 

He sat me for the rest of the game and most of the next. At the time, I was appalled at his action. Later I was so glad he did. No matter what you did in last week's game or the game which just ended, baseball is a team sport....not individual.  He taught us how to be winners, how to give everything we had, and to accept defeat in grace and victory as humble as possible. Personally I learned about teamwork, sacrifice hits, being a leader, and always believing in yourself. At the end of the season, I was told I made the City All-Stars. Not bad for a kid who went from a few hits a year to a few hits in one game. Yes I was a year older, taller but if it had not been for Coach, none of this would have been possible.

It's depressing to realize, this was thirty years ago. I remember when being thirty years old meant you are old. I ran into Coach about ten years later, all dressed in heavy metal attire, long hair. He probably did not recognize me or I'm sure he would have told me to cut my hair (LOL). I was brought up to say yes sir and yes maam....especially to people who shaped who you became. I ran across my home run baseballs recently as I was cleaning out a room. I never forgot them but as John Lennon once stated 'life is what happens when you're busy making plans.' I reflected on that summer with nostalgia and the childhood innocence....then my aching knees brought me back to reality.

It may have been thirty years ago but the summer of 1983 will always hold a place in my memory. Reflecting on things never entered my mind until I was older....well the setting of The Wonder Years on reruns did help a bit. For the first time I went to a game thinking, not will we win (being a horrible hitter and fielder) but how can I help the team win tonight. Coach C and Coach S would call anyone out in a heartbeat for not giving it our all. Each left positive impacts over those two years but one coach was there both years. He taught me dedication and a solid work ethic. His lessons I carried with me and still incorporate to this day.



Thank you Coach A......Arnold xxxxxx.


----------



## GutPunch

Great Story Chuck...I love this kind of stuff.

I wish I could paint a picture with a pen as you do.


----------



## staystrong

Wow. Thanks for sharing that piece of you, Chuck. That was pretty dang awesome and it just shows how certain people can really help shape a boy into a man. 

"But you are not bigger than the team"

I know this story wasn't about why we are on these boards, but I wish our waywards had learned this lesson.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Ditto, Chuck.

A great read. I liked it even better than the image of your X getting her big azz stuck in your window.


----------



## Chuck71

BW, way back when everything went down, I had the only key to the house. If I came in first, doors locked. She banged on the door and rang the doorbell over and over, I was playing Madden football and ignored her. When I did let her in.....

Ex-It's about time you let me in. I was going to try and climb through the garage window.

Me-(pictured her a$$ and the garage window) Ok! (I could not help but smile at that thought)

Ex-Think it's funny don't you?

Me-Yeah, I did.

She stampeded off as the house shook. But that was the first time I had smiled in maybe a month.


----------



## Bullwinkle

LOL, Chucky. Stampeded off, LOL. 

Here's my question - is this the same woman that ran up huge credit card bills buying clothes?


----------



## Chuck71

How'd you know that???? LOL


----------



## Bullwinkle

You mentioned in a different thread, i think StayStrong's. You made a comment something about you footing the bill for her new clothes so she could go bonk POSOM. Made me laugh.


----------



## Chuck71

nooooo that was for CJ, his W was buying up clothes. I left him a suggested Conrad-esque comment to say. My ex's clothes buying were on her CC.....and after D, she owned it. I refused to pay for it. But.....I am an ashole!


----------



## Bullwinkle

Fair enough, Chuck. Im not playing with a full deck these days.


----------



## Awakening2012

Bullwinkle said:


> Fair enough, Chuck. Im not playing with a full deck these days.


Not least because you must be severely sleep deprived  Hope you get some relief!


----------



## staystrong

Bullwinkle said:


> Fair enough, Chuck. Im not playing with a full deck these days.


The queen of clubs is missing.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Seriously sleep deprived. I fell asleep in my own briefing today.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Seriously sleep deprived. I fell asleep in my own briefing today.


You got to fix this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

BW, can you get any help with D3 this weekend? You need to rest up, buddy.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I know. My brother says the only cure is sex with a really fat woman


----------



## staystrong

You're not making any sense there, Family Bacon Pack. Go sleep!!


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sorry, Punch, Victoria or whatever her name was is gona be mad, I shouldn't have said that.


----------



## GutPunch

I patched things up with Veronica.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Glad to hear it. Like you said, I'm my own worst enemy.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Chuck, now the hell do you check for PMs, I can't remember.


----------



## LongWalk

GP, BrokenShadow, the guy whose nurse wife was busted for opiate addiction and then cheated on him, has managed to turn things around. He feels that TAM has turned him into what he was and should have [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYKjGvVSTGA]been[/URL].

He was begging for R and now she is the one who is afraid of being dumped.


----------



## GutPunch

I'm watching his thread. 

He is definitely a quick learner.

Hopefully he does not go back to old ways and she 
follows through on her recovery from opiates.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Just checking in, GP. How goes it? You settling in to Mamma being home?


----------



## GutPunch

Another day of sex and anger.

All stars were selected. More anger.

Coaches sons were picked. My son will
have to take his highest batting average on
the team home for the summer. One of the two
kids isn't even a good player.

I'm just ready for football.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

How can you have the highest batting average and not be picked as an All Star? WTF is wrong with these people?

And even angry sex is better than no sex.


----------



## GutPunch

LOL...think it may have something to do with the you
coaches suck text I sent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Yeah, well, f**k them. If they had a beef with you, okay, but you don't take it out on a kid.


----------



## old timer

Bullwinkle said:


> And even angry sex is better than no sex.


Grudge-fvckIng rules. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

coaches kids always make it...... most are good players

some could not hit a ball with an oar


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> LOL...think it may have something to do with the you
> coaches suck text I sent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Isn't there another team?

What are your favorite sports? What do you want them to try before they commit to one or two?

I have a cousin who was a gifted athlete. He was good any sport he tried. His father was a university professor scientist who thought that America's love of sport was stupid and primitive. He had zero interest in his son's achievements.

My cousin taught himself to play tennis made the varsity team in high school with zero professional coaching. When he got to college (Big Ten school) he made the varsity tennis team in his junior year, although he did not have a topspin backhand or good serve. He picked them up quickly. In his senior year he had full scholarship.

His father, teaching at the same university, only watched one of his matches. That hurt my cousin.

Oh yeah, my uncle was a cheater. Aunt divorced him. Selfish husband, selfish dad.


----------



## GutPunch

Could a moderator move my thread to the private
members thread as I have been compromised.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Could a moderator move my thread to the private
> members thread as I have been compromised.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Will make for some interesting conversations.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Will make for some interesting conversations.


You think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

Let us know where you end up.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> You think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you stay cool, firm, and dispassionate, I know it.

Remember how to end drama - and let her talk.


----------



## Conrad

A user account (for her) may also be in order.

Face it head on - with courage.


----------



## Pbartender

Due to the nature of internet-based communication, I'm not entirely sure whether or not you are joking, BW, but...



Bullwinkle said:


> And even angry sex is better than no sex.


No it's not... Bad sex is bad. And any sex in a bad relationship is bad sex.


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> Could a moderator move my thread to the private
> members thread as I have been compromised.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How much she did read? And starting from what date?


----------



## happyman64

Let us know what her username is so we can welcome her.

How about "PunchedHimRightInTheGut"


----------



## percy

Hello Gutpunch, I have just finished reading your thread & wanted to thank you for posting it.
I have been separated from my husband for just over 2 months. He has an alcohol problem & we finally split when I discovered he had been cheating and asked him to leave. Your journal has helped me enormously. It has also made me smile at times when I thought nothing would.
Thank you again, I wish you happiness, laughter and clarity of thought.


----------



## LongWalk

Although there are some sentimental passages in this thread about a man's refusal to give up on his WW, for the most part it is about baseball, garden decorations, etc.

It will take a week for a newcomer to read all of GP's posts on other threads.

Without TAM would GP have survived? GP's sense of humor has helped a lot of people.

If there were a CWI cheating spouse beauty contest GP's wife would probably win. Am curious to see Frostine in a dominatrix outfit.


----------



## percy

LongWalk said:


> Although there are some sentimental passages in this thread about a man's refusal to give up on his WW, for the most part it is about baseball, garden decorations, etc.


This is exactly why it has been so helpful.


----------



## Conrad

LongWalk said:


> If there were a CWI cheating spouse beauty contest GP's wife would probably win. Am curious to see Frostine in a dominatrix outfit.


Pervert


----------



## warlock07

LongWalk said:


> Although there are some sentimental passages in this thread about a man's refusal to give up on his WW, for the most part it is about baseball, garden decorations, etc.
> 
> It will take a week for a newcomer to read all of GP's posts on other threads.
> 
> Without TAM would GP have survived? GP's sense of humor has helped a lot of people.
> 
> If there were a CWI cheating spouse beauty contest GP's wife would probably win. Am curious to see Frostine in a dominatrix outfit.


BW hyped Frostine and her boobers quite a bit..I would be interestinf, along with Chucky's exw


----------



## Conrad

warlock07 said:


> BW hyped Frostine and her boobers quite a bit..I would be interestinf, along with Chucky's exw


Pervert


----------



## Conrad

warlock07 said:


> BW hyped Frostine and her boobers quite a bit..I would be interestinf, along with Chucky's exw


Chucky's exW ass wouldn't fit through the bathroom window.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Come on, guys, I didn't exactly hype her boobers, though I made it clear that I had an unnatural, clearly obsessive attachment to them. 

GP, if you're still out there and not lying in a field in Alabama with gunshot wounds, I know you would understand.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I am more of an a$$ guy myself (not big, but tight) but I always loved my stbx chest too. Why the hell am I saying this here lol!

GP, give us an update when you can..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

If GP's forces him to delete the thread, will we exist anymore?


----------



## warlock07

Conrad said:


> Pervert


You too are interested, right ? Come out of the closet Conrad..


----------



## LongWalk

Dear Mrs. Punch,

Thank you for sharing this amazing love letter that your husband has been writing for so many months. It is a literary triumph inspired by you. Although there is some male humor nominally at your expense, we wouldn’t dream of being disrespectful of you online or IRL because we wouldn’t want to let your husband down. We wouldn’t want to earn his disrespect.

If you insist that he take it down, you should at least save a copy for yourself. I don’t think you’ll ever tire of reading it. It ought help you laugh through any dark moments in the future, assuming of course that you two save your marriage. And we are rooting for you.

I wrote in the thread earlier that when GP drove you to the detox camp, not a single person said that he should abandon ship; so impressive is his your commitment to your family.

Good luck quitting smoking. Hope you become addicted to running. GP will come here to brag about you doing 10km races.

Best regards,

LongWalk
54, divorced dad of two teenage girls


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good job, LongWalk.


----------



## LongWalk

Tks, BW easy to write the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

I'm alive....busy weekend.

Life has gotten easier for me since the wife is pulling her weight. 

She just finished reading Boundaries and has started reading His Needs Her Needs. I guess I should read them too. I just hate reading this sh*t. 

Triggering is going to be an issue with me. The wife put on a bra I didn't recognize and I loaded the family up for a shopping trip. Hopefully, that will solve that. 

My poor cousin is serving her WS this morning. Met up with her yesterday to give her my VAR I never used. So sad, two kids 6 and 5 years old.


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk
54, divorced dad of two teenage girls 


You are in my thoughts! TOUGH years!


----------



## Chuck71

GP......Never dodge the truth. It eventually comes out in the wash anyway. In time, my posts here will be exposed. No worries here. I wrote the truth. LW was right when he spoke, no one here blasted you for staying by her side. Every one here is pulling for you. As I stated I guess in January, it would be nice to see you with a R thread around Christmas. 

I think you have passed the mountains and thunder storms. It is flatlands until you reach the coast. But there will be bumps in the roads, maybe a flat tire. Stay focused. When the coastline is within sight, the Garden Gnome will appear. That I can promise.


----------



## Conrad

The Garden Gnome clearly does not need all those teeth.


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> GP......Never dodge the truth. It eventually comes out in the wash anyway. In time, my posts here will be exposed. No worries here. I wrote the truth. LW was right when he spoke, no one here blasted you for staying by her side. Every one here is pulling for you. As I stated I guess in January, it would be nice to see you with a R thread around Christmas.
> 
> I think you have passed the mountains and thunder storms. It is flatlands until you reach the coast. But there will be bumps in the roads, maybe a flat tire. Stay focused. When the coastline is within sight, the Garden Gnome will appear. That I can promise.


Chuck,

If that happens, I am done. I will not compete with drugs, OM or any of that nonsense. This is her second chance at life, not mine. My tolerance level for BS is zero. She knows this all too well.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> The Garden Gnome clearly does not need all those teeth.


My first inclination. I would start smashing face. I'm on the edge even today of setting that man up, getting a hotel room, and me in the room waiting.


----------



## Chuck71

Allow me to clarify, the GG will appear as the last hurdle. In no way did I reference GG as to come back into the picture physically. Well if he did, it would only be to get his arse dragged from one end of the state to the other by GP


----------



## staystrong

The last mental hurdle? How so, Chuck?


----------



## GutPunch

One more mental hurdle, and I am flipping the monopoly board.


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> I'm alive....busy weekend.
> 
> Life has gotten easier for me since the wife is pulling her weight.
> 
> She just finished reading Boundaries and has started reading His Needs Her Needs. I guess I should read them too. I just hate reading this sh*t.
> 
> Triggering is going to be an issue with me. The wife put on a bra I didn't recognize and I loaded the family up for a shopping trip. Hopefully, that will solve that.
> 
> My poor cousin is serving her WS this morning. Met up with her yesterday to give her my VAR I never used. So sad, two kids 6 and 5 years old.


Hi GP - 

Glad you had a good weekend, and that life has gotten easier with your wife putting in the effort -- I hope it continues to go smoothly. Sorry for the news about your cousin, this crap seems to be epidemic.

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP -

I've said it before and I'll say it again - 

Just when I thought I couldn't love this thread more you mention hating to read the books, your wife's new bra and smashing face in the same couple of posts.

God love you, I thoght we'd lost you last night.


----------



## Chuck71

GP is being honest on the board. That is a plus


----------



## LongWalk

Chuck71 said:


> LongWalk
> 54, divorced dad of two teenage girls
> 
> 
> You are in my thoughts! TOUGH years!


Thanks.

Actually my girls are pretty ok, doing well in school. But as a father you need to know more, understand more. I didn't have sisters – dad, four boy and my mom – I didn't know much about girls. Got packed off to the prep school, first year it was all boys. Talk about sadism. That's why the Brits conquered some many countries. Their elite were twisted by same sex school system. But I digress.

My 15-year-old just had her school trip cancelled midway because the kids smuggled in vodka and one boy drank himself unconscious. Two 15-year-old girls managed to buy 7 liters of vodka for a class of under 25 kids. My daughter said two unopened bottles were under the boat and no one dared fetch them when they were deported back to the city.

So any parent can feel secure, but who knows what can happen. Suddenly a kid who was insecure but could have got through the tough teens OK, is smoking drinking, smoking, having sex.

Sports is one way to keep them grounded.


----------



## Chuck71

I strongly disagree about same sex boarding but, WTF am I? It's hard relating to you but they are at an age where your re-connect with them will appear. A good father will always, always have his daughters. They value your opinion more than you realize. Do I have daughters, no. But I have studied this area hands on. Your approval is very important to them. A female will back me on this, to make it more legit. But trust me, you mean more to them than you realize. It's not just for a few years, it is a lot longer.


----------



## Awakening2012

Chuck71 said:


> I strongly disagree about same sex boarding but, WTF am I? It's hard relating to you but they are at an age where your re-connect with them will appear. A good father will always, always have his daughters. They value your opinion more than you realize. Do I have daughters, no. But I have studied this area hands on. Your approval is very important to them. A female will back me on this, to make it more legit. But trust me, you mean more to them than you realize. It's not just for a few years, it is a lot longer.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## staystrong

Chuck71 said:


> I strongly disagree about same sex boarding but, WTF am I? It's hard relating to you but they are at an age where your re-connect with them will appear. A good father will always, always have his daughters. They value your opinion more than you realize. Do I have daughters, no. But I have studied this area hands on. Your approval is very important to them. A female will back me on this, to make it more legit. But trust me, you mean more to them than you realize. It's not just for a few years, it is a lot longer.


Spot on, Chuck.

My STBX never got the full approval she was seeking from her father. He left her mom for his affair partner, and he never wanted to assist STBX financially because for him his kids had to learn how to 'make it in the world'. Meanwhile, he does really well for himself and asked his kids to lie to their mom to protect his assets. And he wonders why his daughter was anorexic-bulimic and twice divorced from cheating. It's partly because of YOU, dude. Sadly, she has started to identify with him since our divorce, and even said to her mom "Well, I guess I'm my father's daughter". Sad, sad, sad.


----------



## LongWalk

Chuck, you are right parents good, bad or in between have a huge affect. That's why teens rebel. They start to recognize that relationship and say it cannot go on. Of course, if the relationship is good the rebellion is just a stage. But if the relationship is lacking, then they go and look for something to fill the hole.

And as Staystrong's stbx shows how it can go wrong.


----------



## Chuck71

I tried the full out rebellion stage. Pop put a stop to it.............in about three months LOL

How can you talk a good game with no car, no job and 15.......LOL

I was whipped sometimes when, I really did not understand why

but this was one where he let me skate, or we'd have went behind the woodshed

guess who'd have won that round!


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punchy, where are you, man?

You realize that neither you nor I have said something inappropriate in like 48 hours?

Yo, Chucky, hope you're well.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Punchy, where are you, man?
> 
> You realize that neither you nor I have said something inappropriate in like 48 hours?
> 
> Yo, Chucky, hope you're well.


Surely it hasn't been that long. 

I'm just sitting at the office working with one hand and playing
pocket pool with the other. 

Nothing inappropriate going on over here. How about you?


----------



## Chuck71

BW, doing well, spending lot more time in the bathroom

new gal has Playboy subscription, I was never aware

the have great articles, and Mz May's hobbies are writing

and hiking. Mine too! What a shock!!!!


----------



## Chuck71

GutPunch said:


> Surely it hasn't been that long.
> 
> I'm just sitting at the office working with one hand and playing
> pocket pool with the other.
> 
> Nothing inappropriate going on over here. How about you?


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

freaking priceless!


----------



## old timer

"Playing pocket pool" reminds me of the Christmas I got a new pair of jeans with a hole in the pocket...

Dad said it was something to wear and something to play with.

He was cheap, but clever.

.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Surely it hasn't been that long.
> 
> I'm just sitting at the office working with one hand and playing
> pocket pool with the other.
> 
> Nothing inappropriate going on over here. How about you?


You better hurry back, your thread is turning into a barbershop of male war stories.


----------



## Chuck71

I have the highest bid on Bigguns, Al Bundy's collection. Anyone care to sub-let the "magazines"


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> I have the highest bid on Bigguns, Al Bundy's collection. Anyone care to sub-let the "magazines"


I'd rather share toilet paper than magazines.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sigh....

Pocket pool at the office. Copy of Playboy in the bathroom.

I knew you guys wouldn't let me down.

No one can ever accuse us of being classless.


P.S. Chucky, remember the episode where Al Bundy buys the original 1962 issue of Bigguns and Peg finds it under the couch cushion and throws it out?


----------



## Chuck71

LOL i have the full 11 season run!!! 

you can't say we are classless, that would scream Karl Marx


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> LOL i have the full 11 season run!!!


Christina Applegate still looks fine.


----------



## Bullwinkle

She does look greart.

My favorite episode of all time was where Al and the other men were trying to install a TV antenna on the roof and they all kept falling off the roof.


----------



## Chuck71

Always liked Peg.......her sisters from the Double Mint comm

were hot too. Marcy was a complex mor or less on

see her on Fraternity Vacation 1985


----------



## Chuck71

mine was 1989 Christmas, Sam Kinison LOL

ARRRGHHHHHH


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sam Kinison, yes! Poor, Sammy, he died too young....


----------



## Chuck71

WAY too young......Bill Hicks too

great people die young

I see I have until 2087 until I die LOL


----------



## Bullwinkle

I hear you, Chuck. 

GP, you get a home-cooked meal tonight?


----------



## LongWalk

So, GP, your wife read some of the thread and found it so boring that she didn't have the patience to get to the good parts.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> I hear you, Chuck.
> 
> GP, you get a home-cooked meal tonight?


That's a big negative. She has intensive outpatient therapy at night. So another night of canned tuna fish and ramen noodles for me.


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> So, GP, your wife read some of the thread and found it so boring that she didn't have the patience to get to the good parts.


She did not read much. Maybe a page or two.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> That's a big negative. She has intensive outpatient therapy at night. So another night of canned tuna fish and ramen noodles for me.


Good protein


----------



## Pbartender

GutPunch said:


> That's a big negative. She has intensive outpatient therapy at night. So another night of canned tuna fish and ramen noodles for me.


For something a little different, here's an old cheap college student trick...

Instant Ramen + Chunky Peanut Butter + Sriracha Sauce = Poor Man's Pad Thai


----------



## Bullwinkle

So GP, what was it tonight, not more tuna and Ramen noodles.


----------



## GutPunch

Wifey fixed me some pork chops before she left.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Yeah? Things are looking up. 

And I will show restraint by making no comment about her getting the pork.


----------



## LongWalk

> Originally Posted by LongWalk View Post
> So, GP, your wife read some of the thread and found it so boring that she didn't have the patience to get to the good parts.





> She did not read much. Maybe a page or two.


Are you surprised, disappointed, relieved?

I would have thought she'd be really interested to know

1) how you survived
2) whether you had any affairs

Is she interested in your building projects? Did you used to drive her by them earlier in your relationship and say:

"Honey, I built that, hope it's not going to collapse (trying to imagine a little bit of GP humor)".

Does she get excited at the little league games?


----------



## Chuck71

I received a hand smack by the "Lords of TAM"

I offered a mid-year nomination of the greatest

A hole, male and female

all I asked for was nominees

they rolled in like an Alerbami thundur stoorm


----------



## ReGroup

Chuck71 said:


> I received a hand smack by the "Lords of TAM"
> 
> I offered a mid-year nomination of the greatest
> 
> A hole, male and female
> 
> all I asked for was nominees
> 
> they rolled in like an Alerbami thundur stoorm


I was gearing up for that thread.

Then I noticed it disappeared... I knew what happened.

I checked if you got banned. Thank god you didn't get sent to The Gulag.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

LOL you are not a true TAMer until you get banned once LOL

it is either the wording or a spiteful person, one head will show

lol count on it


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> I received a hand smack by the "Lords of TAM"
> 
> I offered a mid-year nomination of the greatest
> 
> A hole, male and female
> 
> all I asked for was nominees
> 
> they rolled in like an Alerbami thundur stoorm


LOL...I had just posted. Went to look and the thread was gone.


----------



## Chuck71

I will PM you when it re-appears, it will re-appear


----------



## Conrad

ReGroup said:


> I was gearing up for that thread.
> 
> Then I noticed it disappeared... I knew what happened.
> 
> I checked if you got banned. Thank god you didn't get sent to The Gulag.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey, if it's good enough for me and HappyKaty, it's certainly good enough for Chuck


----------



## LongWalk

Chuck71 said:


> I received a hand smack by the "Lords of TAM"
> 
> I offered a mid-year nomination of the greatest
> 
> A hole, male and female
> 
> all I asked for was nominees
> 
> they rolled in like an Alerbami thundur stoorm


A WW called her former affair partner's wife a loser. That word "loser" won her ban.


----------



## Chuck71

I better send my email out LOL

was raised to call spade a spade

as long as it is done tasteful 

a tad of humor never hurt anyone

I hear George Will talking in the other room EKKK


----------



## Bullwinkle

I like to think I hold the recorod for the earliest ban - I went to the Gulag one day into TAM.


----------



## Chuck71

I was called out on my first post (serious)

I was sarcastic and was sent an email by the main office

some things............never change


----------



## Bullwinkle

First post? Hat's off to you, Chucky. But I would agree, if you haven't been to the Gulag at least once, you ain't earned your stripes.


----------



## Chuck71

BW how is your appetite lol


----------



## old timer

I've never had so much as a hand slap email from the TAM gods. 

Guess I'm hangin w a bunch of rebels. 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Chuck, I'm starting to eat solid food again but someone was eating a bacon sandwich today and I had to puke in my office trash can. 

Old Timer, it will get you when you lease expect it. Like love or a terrible rash.


----------



## Chuck71

BW, In all respect.....she was a country gal hottie 'back in the day'

numerous medications just 'deadened' her, loved her for who she was

was, past tense

told me one time 'i have large breasts'

I thought to myself "so would I if I wore 46 blue jeans (guy size)

she posts on FB how happy she is in new state, but get this

had three loves, ex is 3rd, my 1st love is the one who informs me what she posts

the irony. my 2nd ask me to friend her exactly on what would have been

our 22nd ann. had we stayed together.

I have said since day 1 on TAM, all things come full circle, almost always

for me, this is a Crossroads, not to choose but to learn

one day, ex will do a Taylor Dane "love will lead you back' spill

as heart warming and romantic as it may seem, it will fall on deaf ears


----------



## Bullwinkle

Couldn't agree more, Chucky, whatever goes around comes around.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, where are you, man? 

When you go silent, we always fear for the worst, that you're driving to Florida with a shovel and some lime.


----------



## GutPunch

Any lime I use at the beach will be in my ****tail. 

I'm not into burying anyway, too much evidence. Five miles out in the Gulf of Mexico with concrete boots would be more my style.


----------



## Chuck71

dem boots are made for walkin'


----------



## Bullwinkle

I'm partial to the wood chipper personally.


----------



## GutPunch

MC appointment today.

Triggers are eating me alive and are stealing my happiness away.

This has got to get better. No way that I want her stupid actions in the past dictate my happiness. 

My energy levels are still way below what they were before DDay. This frustrates me.


----------



## veronicawalls

GutPunch said:


> MC appointment today.
> 
> Triggers are eating me alive and are stealing my happiness away.
> 
> This has got to get better. No way that I want her stupid actions in the past dictate my happiness.
> 
> My energy levels are still way below what they were before DDay. This frustrates me.


Forgive me for asking, as I don't want to be too nosy, but are you on any meds at all? I know that without my SSRI, I would be lost right now.


----------



## GutPunch

veronicawalls said:


> Forgive me for asking, as I don't want to be too nosy, but are you on any meds at all? I know that without my SSRI, I would be lost right now.


No meds. I just feel weak and think about the betrayal an unhealthy amount.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Same for me, Punch, don't like the idea of any meds, but am obsessed with the betrayal.


----------



## zillard

How about IC?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> MC appointment today.
> 
> Triggers are eating me alive and are stealing my happiness away.
> 
> This has got to get better. No way that I want her stupid actions in the past dictate my happiness.
> 
> My energy levels are still way below what they were before DDay. This frustrates me.


I hear the Garden Gnome needs some dental work.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> MC appointment today.
> 
> Triggers are eating me alive and are stealing my happiness away.
> 
> This has got to get better. No way that I want her stupid actions in the past dictate my happiness.
> 
> My energy levels are still way below what they were before DDay. This frustrates me.




Is she doing anything to help you with the triggers or are you bottling it up?

I take it you aren't working out much either.

The hot redhead counselor might help you with it too.


----------



## LongWalk

GP, it is no wonder that you are enervated. You were a single dad for three months while providing telephone support for your injured wife. You should accept that you will feel down for a while. At the same time that your wife was in detox, you had to make your business profitable while your wife's income fell to zero. You've got to be fatiqued. It will pass.

Your problems will remain, but your perspective will change.

The two years that your wife hid her addiction must have drained you without you even being fully aware of what was going on.

... maybe its time to give Lucy a kick.


----------



## GutPunch

Fatigued is a good description. I guess I have been on a roller coaster ride for the last 6 months. I just want my energy and drive back. 

I remain in IC. 

& yes I dream of opening a dental practice in Florida with only one client.


----------



## LongWalk

Gut Punch as caring oral surgeon


----------



## Chuck71

it will hurt the most just before you move past it


----------



## staystrong

GP, 

There was talk at one point about moving your thread to the Reconciliation section. Just thinking you might benefit from getting support from other people going through R.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, this is where you get the TAM speech - "You need to channel this negative energy into something positive, rescuing injured puppies or feeding winos downtown, learn to accept your wife's human foibles, forgive the garden gnome, he's a human being, blah, blah, blah...."


----------



## mallycoo

You've been through so much it's only inevitable you're going to feel exhausted both physically and emotionally, thinking about the betrayal is only natural even if it is counter productive it's fully understandable, like all things the odds are you will get over it and feel fine eventually but when you're there in the eye of the storm people telling you that doesn't exactly make you feel much better about it, I've been in that situation often enough!

For what it's worth I think you have coped with this entire situation admirably and I think everyone can see that, we are only human at the end of the day but you have been incredibly strong through this and now some inevitable fatigue is starting rear it's head.

I hope that soon you will find peace and that you will feel content enough that your body and soul, thoughts and feelings will be able to take a well deserved rest.


----------



## GutPunch

Thanks everyone.

I think you all are right. I need time to process the last 6 months.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> I think you all are right. I need time to process the last 6 months.


Process it??

You need to take the time to process it, kick it, beat it to death and then truly decide how to deal with it so you can move forward in your life in a positive manner.

Take all the time you need GP.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> I think you all are right. I need time to process the last 6 months.


It was like a punch to the gut.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, are the kids happy mom's home?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> GP, are the kids happy mom's home?


Extremely.....kind of jealous she has stolen some of the kiddos attention.


----------



## GutPunch

Wife was pulled over for speeding last night and carted off to jail. 
Had to bail her out. More consequences. This whole mess is now a financial gutpunch. $2400.00 to bail her out. Have to get a Lawyer....again. I hope she can cope.


----------



## Northern Monkey

It never rains..

Is it her first driving offence? You know why and by how much she was speeding?


----------



## GutPunch

Northern Monkey said:


> It never rains..
> 
> Is it her first driving offence? You know why and by how much she was speeding?


Speeding was the minor issue. She was hurrying to outpatient therapy. The stealing drugs from former employer is the kicker. Felony charge.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Damn, Punch, the last thing you needed. Take the ring off again!

Just kidding, but yes, I hope she can cope.


----------



## old timer

What? This is a new theft event?

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> What? This is a new theft event?
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


NO....The event that put her in rehab just now caught up with her.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Is she home now?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Is she home now?


Yep...I had her out in about 45 minutes.


----------



## Northern Monkey

So the previous theft affects how hard her ass gets kicked for speeding?

Any sign of how she is taking it?


----------



## GutPunch

Northern Monkey said:


> So the previous theft affects how hard her ass gets kicked for speeding?
> 
> Any sign of how she is taking it?


Speeding ticket is just a speeding ticket. $200 and it's gone.

Now the felony theft charges that's a whole new ball of wax.

She seems to be handling it just ok. Some anxiety and tears, said she felt ashamed. I asked her if she was the same person she was 4 months ago. She said no. I told her then worry about tomorrow and leave the past behind her.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good one, GP. You've learned too. The old Punch woulda said, yeah, that's nice, now run down the store and get me a 12-pack.


----------



## Tron

Good man.


----------



## LongWalk

Can she go to the prosecutor and get the charge reduced? Will this doom her lic?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

I assume she has a good attorney?

And if she wasn't speeding she would never have been sent to jail?

That woman of yours needs to think before she acts even if it is putting her foot on the gas pedal.

I know it happens but man you both could do with a little less drama....

HM


----------



## Conrad

Just not her year.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Just not her year.


No it is not. Road construction lowered the speed limit by our house. We will definitely have to try and keep the felony charges off her record. 

Her license will be restored as long as Bear Grylls can drink her pee and not get high.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Nice visual.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> NO....The event that put her in rehab just now caught up with her.


There's been an outstanding warrant on her this entire time?
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> There's been an outstanding warrant on her this entire time?
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope, Grand jury indicted her last week.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Nope, Grand jury indicted her last week.


Was she aware she was indicted?

Did the police see a warrant for her arrest on file when they ran her drivers license?


----------



## Conrad

Punch,

Quite often, when a medical professional is involved - and it's a first offense - they find some way to get rid of it.

I hope you two are similarly blessed.

What a terrible time for a ticket.


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Was she aware she was indicted?
> 
> Did the police see a warrant for her arrest on file when they ran her drivers license?


She had no idea. Was even calling people to try and find out if there were
any criminal charges. Yes warrant showed when they ran her drivers license.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

"Just found out about the indictment, Your Honor. 
I was in a hurry to turn myself in."


.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

You keep using emergencies to overcome fatigue.

Getting close to the border of Norway. IPhone battery is reaching
End. Will your wife have go before a judge zoo ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> You keep using emergencies to overcome fatigue.
> 
> Getting close to the border of Norway. IPhone battery is reaching
> End. Will your wife have go before a judge zoo ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I imagine so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Border of Norway....That is a Long Walk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

GutPunch said:


> At the beach with a good friend this weekend.
> Stayed out way to late and lost my phone.
> 
> Wife calls from rehab and we talk
> for 10 minutes. Asks me to send her
> a coat. At the end I get an unsolicited
> I Love you. I did not say it back
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gut, I'm slowly but diligently getting through you're thread. Just want to say you're a fantastic father, husband and just a good dude. 

I've picked up clues in other threads as to where you are now. I'm pulling for you brother.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, get up and make your Old Lady some pancakes. She'll be nice to you the rest of the day.


----------



## GutPunch

Thanks guys. I'm battling. Need to stop living
in my head. F'n triggers all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HappyKaty

Happy Father's Day, GP! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> Thanks guys. I'm battling. Need to stop living
> in my head. F'n triggers all the time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Happy Father's Day, GP! Hang in there -- and, yes, get outta yer head. That zone is behind enemy lines  Sending vibes of courage and strength.

Cheers,- A12


----------



## old timer

Gut - I don't know why, but I thought about you several times on the golf course today. 
(Farm Links outside Sylacauga - wonderful course)

Happy Fathers Day, my friend. 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Gut - I don't know why, but I thought about you several times on the golf course today.
> (Farm Links outside Sylacauga - wonderful course)
> 
> Happy Fathers Day, my friend.
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Farm Links....ALERT...High Roller on TAM.

OT Happy Fathers Day to you!


----------



## Bullwinkle

How was fathers day, GP?

Wifey do something special?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> How was fathers day, GP?
> 
> Wifey do something special?


Not really ... but she was real frisky at bedtime. 

My parents watched the kids and we went to dinner and a movie.

Hangover 3 was not very good. 

Got MC today and I hate that sh*t.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Frisky at bedtime? I'd trade that for any card or new tie any day.

I hated MC too. The mistake I made with two different counselors was I was honest.


----------



## ReGroup

GutPunch said:


> Got MC today and I hate that sh*t.


LOL... 

I'm sure it's painful. EXPRESS YOUR SELF GOD DAMMIT!

I'll never attend another MC session... ever. I don't think I have recovered from the bashing I took last Summer and Fall. 

What's your current counselor like?


----------



## GutPunch

She makes us sit in chairs facing one another. Then we have to start talking about are feelings. Then when I say something the wife has to mirror it back. New age kind of stuff. 

It makes me feel like a big ole PU$$Y. It is like pulling teeth to get me to talk in there.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sounds awful.

Take it from someone who has been there twice - keep your real feelings to yourself because it just things worse. Women always say it's all about communication and then when you really communicate, they get enraged.


----------



## ReGroup

Bullwinkle said:


> Sounds awful.
> 
> Take it from someone who has been there twice - keep your real feelings to yourself because it just things worse. Women always say it's all about communication and then when you really communicate, they get enraged.


3 years ago - we went to a counselor and I did everything that she told me to do... And Mrs. RG was still fuming.

I was like, WTF!

I was getting Fitness Test'd to death.

Next time, lets make sure we all keep our traps shut and do more.


----------



## GutPunch

ReGroup said:


> 3 years ago - we went to a counselor and I did everything that she told me to do... And Mrs. RG was still fuming.
> 
> I was like, WTF!
> 
> I was getting Fitness Test'd to death.
> 
> Next time, lets make sure we all keep our traps shut and do more.


LOL....Mrs. RG fuming. Never would have guessed.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Exactly. I honestly believe that if I had kept my trap shut in the MC sessions, things would not have gone south so quickly.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Exactly. I honestly believe that if I had kept my trap shut in the MC sessions, things would not have gone south so quickly.


Again BW I don't think you or anything you did would have prevented this from happening. Frostine is emotionally not fit to be in a relationship right now. 

Until she fixes herself which seems highly unlikely atm, you must continue moving and thinking forward. You'll get there.


----------



## HappyKaty

Bullwinkle said:


> Women always say it's all about communication and then when you really communicate, they get enraged.


I agree, 100%.

MC is for the birds. All you do is rehash the past, which results in a huge fight that exacerbates the desire to divorce.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Thanks, Punch, I agree. HappyK, you realize this will anger some of the TAM Kool-Aid drinkers....

GP, when you go into the session today, just be thinking about sex or your favorite movie or if you can get the old lady to make you those pork chops again. But nothing about FEELINGS!


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Farm Links....ALERT...High Roller on TAM.
> 
> OT Happy Fathers Day to you!


Hahaha, I wish. 

My son is the high roller - it was his treat. Actually, son and SIL's treat. We play every Fathers Day. 

On a side note, this is S32, and I am actually his stepfather. Adopted him, D28 and S30 over 20 years ago. They (along w my 3 kids) have taken a neutral, hands off position towards the sh!t between their mom and me. They have all shown through words and actions that they still love me and they want what is best for us - whatever that turns out to be. Bottom line, IMO, is they know their mom can be a real handful to deal with. They just want us to act like adults and arrive at a solution with the least possible bloodshed and animosity. This has been a source of great comfort for me through all of this. 

*** Threadjack over - back your regularly scheduled program ***

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Excellent post BW!

Why don't we talk about pork chops!

Counselor......Punch tell Mrs. Punch what you are feeling atm.

Punch.....I sure would like some pork chops for dinner tonight.

Mrs. Punch.....Punch said he would like some pork chops for dinner tonight.

Counselor.....Please make it out for $90 to XYZ counseling

Punch.....mutters "I could have had steak and shrimp for $90"


----------



## HappyKaty

Bullwinkle said:


> Thanks, Punch, I agree. HappyK, you realize this will anger some of the TAM Kool-Aid drinkers....


Mmmmmm...Kool-Aid...

And pork chops...


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Not really ... but she was real frisky at bedtime.
> 
> My parents watched the kids and we went to dinner and a movie.
> 
> Hangover 3 was not very good.
> 
> Got MC today and I hate that sh*t.


You should have gone to see "Man of Steel".

It was awesome.

Then you could have snuck home and given her some of your steel..


----------



## Bullwinkle

LOL. Sounds like a great plan, GP, but no muttering! Women hate muttering!

But much more importantly, is there gravy and mashed potatoes with the chops? Washed down with purple Kool-Aid.


----------



## zillard

HappyKaty said:


> I agree, 100%.
> 
> MC is for the birds. All you do is rehash the past, which results in a huge fight that exacerbates the desire to divorce.


I'm not so sure about that. Not with a good counselor anyway.


----------



## HappyKaty

zillard said:


> I'm not so sure about that. Not with a good counselor anyway.


Just my opinion, based on my own experiences (with different MC's).


----------



## old timer

zillard said:


> I'm not so sure about that. Not with a good counselor anyway.


Here we go. 

Break out the popcorn. 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Agreed. Just based on my experience too.


----------



## zillard

HappyKaty said:


> Just my opinion, based on my own experiences (with different MC's).


I feel that MC will not work as well as it could unless both parties are committed. 

My experiences with joint sessions with X influenced my perspective. Although they were with my daughter's therapist for co-parenting purposes, I saw a lot of potential there. 

The relationship with X improved quickly. I really feel that had she been committed to working toward R, the type of sessions we had would have been immensely helpful through that process.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I hear you, Z, but you're right, both parties have to want it.

Frostine was fine dumping on me but when the counsleor agreed with me on a couple of points, for example, that most men don't like other men calling their houses on a Sunday to chat with their wives, it enraged her and she stormed out.


----------



## HappyKaty

zillard said:


> I feel that MC will not work as well as it could unless both parties are committed.


I absolutely agree with your perspective.

In my situation, though, there was a time when my STBX was committed to making our marriage work. MC ruined the entire notion. 

Life coaching, on the other hand, is a God send (in my opinion, of course).


----------



## zillard

Bullwinkle said:


> I hear you, Z, but you're right, both parties have to want it.
> 
> Frostine was fine dumping on me but when the counsleor agreed with me on a couple of points, for example, that most men don't like other men calling their houses on a Sunday to chat with their wives, it enraged her and she stormed out.


My X walked out of our first joint MC session and refused to go back. 

Does that mean MC didn't work? On the contrary. I think it worked perfectly. 

It showed me her level of commitment and helped me see that I was not crazy.

The best sessions are upsetting.


----------



## zillard

HappyKaty said:


> I absolutely agree with your perspective.
> 
> In my situation, though, there was a time when my STBX was committed to making our marriage work. MC ruined the entire notion.
> 
> Life coaching, on the other hand, is a God send (in my opinion, of course).


How committed was he, really?  I know what you're saying though, HK.

Our intake forms were very telling. 

The field "What do you hope to accomplish?":

Z - Fix the marriage if possible. If not, cope.

X - Successful separation


----------



## HappyKaty

zillard said:


> How committed was he, really?


Not this last time. 

In 2011, we separated because of my issues. He was very committed to fixing our marriage. In fact, even after MC failed us, he walked on egg shells for several months, kissing my ass, so as to not upset me. 

This last time...Ha. No committment at all.


----------



## HappyKaty

zillard said:


> The field "What do you hope to accomplish?":
> 
> Z - Fix the marriage if possible. If not, cope.
> 
> X - Successful separation


That's why I love LC.

The first question is, "How do YOU like to be treated?"


----------



## LongWalk

lostLove77's wife has been with 4 or 5 OM since she left him. Finally, they started going to MC after she promised to stop seeing other men.



> Default Re: Lost's Story/Journal
> *That fn counselor told me to fight last week. Ugh!*!
> Posted via Mobile Device


He then saw her in photo (probably on FB) with POSOM 3 celebrating her birthday.

He called her up and she said she would drop the guy in 2 weeks. She also, after declining to divorce for 6 months, finally told him she is "not in love" anymore.

They have session two on Wednesday.

If were taking 90 bucks from people for such advice, I would keepa pistol handy.


----------



## BWBill

You need to be careful with that emotional stuff.

From an interview with Brené Brown, Ph.D., LMSW, who has spent the past decade studying vulnerability, courage, worthiness and shame:

_"What Brown also discovered in the course of her research is that, contrary to her early assumptions, men's shame is not primarily inflicted by other men. *Instead, it is the women in their lives who tend to be repelled when men show the ****** in their armor.*

"Most women pledge allegiance to this idea that women can explore their emotions, break down, fall apart—and it's healthy," Brown said. "But guys are not allowed to fall apart." Ironically, she explained, men are often pressured to open up and talk about their feelings, and they are criticized for being emotionally walled-off; but if they get too real, they are met with revulsion.”"_


----------



## GutPunch

Thanks Bill

I think I agree with you.

I think the ole therapist and wife are gonna
have to keep banging their head against the wall.

I definitely feel like a big ole pu$$
talking about my feelings. I suck at it too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Feelings. Nothing more than feelings. 

Teardrops. Rolling down on MY face. 

Sob. Sniffle.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Feelings. Nothing more than feelings.
> 
> Teardrops. Rolling down on MY face.
> 
> Sob. Sniffle.


Gutpunch cry. No way ain't cried once through
this whole process.

Heck I haven't cried since I watched Marley and Me.

Oh yeah. I cried when I watched Rudy.

Those St JUDES hospital infomercials are rough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> Gutpunch cry. No way ain't cried once through
> this whole process.
> 
> Heck I haven't cried since I watched Marley and Me.
> 
> Oh yeah. I cried when I watched Rudy.
> 
> Those St JUDES hospital infomercials are rough.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're a stronger man than me GP. Bawled as much through this as I did when I lost my son. Wish I had that kind of resolve naturally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

GutPunch said:


> Gutpunch cry. No way ain't cried once through
> this whole process.
> 
> Heck I haven't cried since I watched Marley and Me.
> 
> Oh yeah. I cried when I watched Rudy.
> 
> Those St JUDES hospital infomercials are rough.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol... I am the same way.

I feel like a heartless robot.

I just said OK... You sure about that?

I suffered in silence though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

BWBill said:


> You need to be careful with that emotional stuff.
> 
> From an interview with Brené Brown, Ph.D., LMSW, who has spent the past decade studying vulnerability, courage, worthiness and shame:
> 
> _"What Brown also discovered in the course of her research is that, contrary to her early assumptions, men's shame is not primarily inflicted by other men. *Instead, it is the women in their lives who tend to be repelled when men show the ****** in their armor.*
> 
> "Most women pledge allegiance to this idea that women can explore their emotions, break down, fall apart—and it's healthy," Brown said. "But guys are not allowed to fall apart." Ironically, she explained, men are often pressured to open up and talk about their feelings, and they are criticized for being emotionally walled-off; but if they get too real, they are met with revulsion.”"_


In some circumstances, sure. Doing so with a disloyal spouse, with pos lurking in the background... yes, yes, yes. 

Other circumstances, not so much. 

I have been very open about my emotions, fears, and past mistakes with Tiger. And it has reeled her in more than I ever expected. 

Perhaps because it has been balanced with confidence. It is not whiny. It is not needy. Because I am willing to look in the mirror, and am actively working on the things I do not like. It is awareness and shows strength.

But straight up cry baby victim chair crap is for the birds and will get you nowhere... fast.


----------



## old timer

I cry myself to sleep every night...


.


.


.


.



.



...not. 


Must be an Alerbamy thing
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

I teared up during Maley and Me too. And I recall sniffling a little when Robert Redford hit that final homer run in The Natural. 

But tears for Frostine? Never. Pure, white hot rage and frustration, especially when I hear D3 crying HERself to sleep most nights. 

Though I did drop my anchovy pizza face down earlier on the carpet, the whole F ing pie, and almost wept. I still ate some but kept crunching on sand.


----------



## old timer

Everyone needs a little grit in their craw. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> I cry myself to sleep every night...
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...not.
> 
> 
> Must be an Alerbamy thing
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think we hillbillies have evolved quite yet into the modern man. Anytime I cried when I was a kid, my Dad said "Cut it out or I will give you something to really cry about."


----------



## Pbartender

Bullwinkle said:


> Though I did drop my anchovy pizza face down earlier on the carpet, the whole F ing pie, and almost wept.


 *sniffle*



Bullwinkle said:


> I still ate some but kept crunching on sand.


You need to buy a better vacuum cleaner.


----------



## Awakening2012

Bullwinkle said:


> I teared up during Maley and Me too. And I recall sniffling a little when Robert Redford hit that final homer run in The Natural.
> 
> But tears for Frostine? Never. Pure, white hot rage and frustration, especially when I hear D3 crying HERself to sleep most nights.
> 
> Though I did drop my anchovy pizza face down earlier on the carpet, the whole F ing pie, and almost wept. I still ate some but kept crunching on sand.


No! Not the anchovy pizza -- how tragic! :circle: Sorry you had such a rough day yesterday, and hope today is better.

Cheers, - A12


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> I don't think we hillbillies have evolved quite yet into the modern man. Anytime I cried when I was a kid, my Dad said "Cut it out or I will give you something to really cry about."


Yours too, huh?

Thinking I have evolved. Years ago, after pulling BFH into the cave by the hair of her head, I gave her a pair of shoes. 

Even if they were my ex's shoes, at least she wasn't barefoot. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

you're right, I do need a better vaccuum cleaner, God knows what I was crunching on last night off that pizza, sand, dog fur, toenails.


----------



## old timer

Bullwinkle said:


> God knows what I was crunching on last night off that pizza, sand, dog fur, toenails.


Isnt it kind of hard to distinguish between toenails and those crunchy little fish?

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

It is, OT.

I'm hiding out here on Punch's thread, last bastion of the unreformed.


----------



## HappyKaty

Bullwinkle said:


> you're right, I do need a better vaccuum cleaner, God knows what I was crunching on last night off that pizza, sand, dog fur, toenails.


Human toenails, or dog toenails? :scratchhead: Eh, I guess they're one in the same when they're a pizza topping.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I think I actually crunched down on both, not to mention the usual dust bunnies, and there was old band-aid from D3's old toe cut that was stuck on the crust but I got to that in time.

My sister is coming down this weekend and she said she was going to help me clean the house after she kicks my azz.


----------



## BWBill

_*Fr Zillard:*
In some circumstances, sure. Doing so with a disloyal spouse, with pos lurking in the background... yes, yes, yes. 

Other circumstances, not so much. 

I have been very open about my emotions, fears, and past mistakes with Tiger. And it has reeled her in more than I ever expected. 

Perhaps because it has been balanced with confidence. It is not whiny. It is not needy. Because I am willing to look in the mirror, and am actively working on the things I do not like. It is awareness and shows strength.

But straight up cry baby victim chair crap is for the birds and will get you nowhere... fast. _

I agree with everything.


----------



## LongWalk

Went out to dinner with friends. They live in France and hate the French. I told them about my discovery of TAM and they said everyone in France cheats on their spouse. Wonder if there is a French equivalent of TAM? Anyway the husband, German, admitted French cooking is good. They know how to make steak right, we agreed on that.

We had gotten our food when a third friend called to say he would make it after all. He is wife dumped him and he has aged 10 years. He used to be gregarious. A big strong guy. But now he lost a lot of weight.

I don't think his wife was cheating on him. She inherited a lot of money, got religion and became a Christian happiness guru. She didn't give fig about her husband, he was just an annoyance. I didn't ask about the last years of his marriage, but I'll bet sex ended long ago.

My friend may be drinking, he may be dying but I can't imagine him crying. Men just aren't wired that way.


----------



## GutPunch

I didn't cry but I grieved through insomnia 
and anxiety.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Insomnia and anxiety! My closest companions! 

Night after night up walking around at three in the morning eatiing a chicken wing and looking for naked people on cable.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Insomnia and anxiety! My closest companions!
> 
> Night after night up walking around at three in the morning eatiing a chicken wing and looking for naked people on cable.


I remember rubbing one out at 3:00 AM. Not because I wanted to.

But because it may help me go back to sleep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old timer

I had problems sleeping the first month or two after moving out. 

I could drink myself to sleep, but I'd wake up around 3 am, not being able to sleep, you know, thinking about it all. I started taking an OTC sleep med, sometimes 3x the normal dose. But I slept. Soundly. If I woke up in the middle of the night, I took a couple more. OT needs his sleep. OT gonna get his sleep, or OD trying. 

After abt 2 months, I accepted it was over, and I rarely take sleep meds now. Usually when I'm having DOMS from working out. GP never had the luxury of accepting it was over. Thats not the case for you, Wink. Sorry buddy, but when you accept it, things do get easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Nice visual, GP. 

OT, I hear you. Here it 4 in the morning and I'm up walking around, obsessing. I hope the day comes when I can accept it.


----------



## old timer

Bullwinkle said:


> Nice visual, GP.
> 
> OT, I hear you. Here it 4 in the morning and I'm up walking around, obsessing. I hope the day comes when I can accept it.


Either accept it or allow it to slowly destroy you. 

Your choice

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

I have thoroughly enjoyed this past week reading up in the manliest thread around only to catch up with MC, crying and vacuum cleaners? WTF?

How disappointing. 

Come on now, sports, sex, kicking teeth out of garden gnomes is where this needs to go.


----------



## GutPunch

Ceegee said:


> I have thoroughly enjoyed this past week reading up in the manliest thread around only to catch up with MC, crying and vacuum cleaners? WTF?
> 
> How disappointing.
> 
> Come on now, sports, sex, kicking teeth out of garden gnomes is where this needs to go.


Your right, since Mrs. GP moved back in, I think I have repu$$ified. I'll be glad when football season starts so I can scream at my son to take his dress off and hit somebody.

Proud Papa Alert

Yesterday while playing catch with my seven year old he flat missed the ball and I caught him square in the head. He dropped like a sack of potatoes. 

He cried for a couple of minutes and then got back up and started throwing again. I have never been prouder. No way I would have kept throwing at his age. I would have ran into the house scared. Love that boy.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Your right, since Mrs. GP moved back in, I think I have repu$$ified. I'll be glad when football season starts so I can scream at my son to take his dress off and hit somebody.
> 
> Proud Papa Alert
> 
> Yesterday while playing catch with my seven year old he flat missed the ball and I caught him square in the head. He dropped like a sack of potatoes.
> 
> He cried for a couple of minutes and then got back up and started throwing again. I have never been prouder. No way I would have kept throwing at his age. I would have ran into the house scared. Love that boy.


Alright GP. My boy is 4.5. Pretty tough little guy too. 

So when does all the athletic stuff really start? 

We still just run around, wrestle a little and throw softy balls.

I had 2 girls first and gotta make sure he isn't "pu$$ified".


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> Alright GP. My boy is 4.5. Pretty tough little guy too.
> 
> So when does all the athletic stuff really start?
> 
> We still just run around, wrestle a little and throw softy balls.
> 
> I had 2 girls first and gotta make sure he isn't "pu$$ified".


My boy was playing t-ball at 4 and football at 6.

Little girl is 4 and we just enrolled her in gymnastics.


----------



## Ceegee

Tron said:


> Alright GP. My boy is 4.5. Pretty tough little guy too.
> 
> So when does all the athletic stuff really start?
> 
> We still just run around, wrestle a little and throw softy balls.
> 
> I had 2 girls first and gotta make sure he isn't "pu$$ified".


They can start at different ages, if at all.

S12 is top 1% height and weight (5' 8" @ 165 lbs) and solid as a rock. He's always been in sports but is focused solely on football now. Y coach told the rest of the team to watch for him on Saturday afternoons in about 6 years. Extremely proud of him.

I'm equally proud of S9 who has absolutely no interest in sports but is exceptionally smart. All A's in school and wants to join a chess team and start creating his own APP for iPhone.


----------



## old timer

It is very gratifying to watch your kids mature and branch out in their own particular direction. 

Funny how they can grow up in the same environment and develop totally different interests. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Sports are the best thing you can share with your kids. My father did almost zero sports with us. When I was about 7 or 8 he started playing chess with me and my brothers. He offered us hundred dollars if we could beat him two games in a row.

He was a very good at school work. After he got and MD he went and got a MA in electrical engineering. So even if he was not gifted he always worked so hard at chemistry and math that he always got straight A's. But he could not play chess for squat. He could have but his ego was too frail.

So when I beat him at chess I was really happy for half a second, until he exploded with rage. Instead of being proud that I beat him he face was dark at héll. I couldn't win the second game because I was so anxious and fearful. He refused to play more with me and when my younger brother beat him once, he quit playing completely.

I don't think I was more than 10 when chess ended for him.

We lived a town with a Big Ten football team. He only took us to one or two games. One professional baseball game. Nothing else ever. He said the US was a primitive society. He did understand that if you don't play catch with kids, they won't be able to play with other kids or get picked for teams at school.

Sports should be one of the first places in life where you can fail and get encouraged and still be loved.

Your wife will love you more for playing sports with your boys. You ought to get good sack time if your kids are happy playing ball.

The football heroes when I was kid were Bart Starr, Jerry Kramer, Deacon Jones. Guess OT remembers those days. Not living in the US, I only follow football a little. Seems like folks are scared about brain damage now.

BW's going raise a swim star.


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> Sports are the best thing you can share with your kids. My father did almost zero sports with us. When I was about 7 or 8 he started playing chess with me and my brothers. He offered us hundred dollars if we could beat him two games in a row.
> 
> He was a very good at school work. After he got and MD he went and got a MA in electrical engineering. So even if he was not gifted he always worked so hard at chemistry and math that he always got straight A's. But he could not play chess for squat. He could have but his ego was too frail.
> 
> So when I beat him at chess I was really happy for half a second, until he exploded with rage. Instead of being proud that I beat him he face was dark at héll. I couldn't win the second game because I was so anxious and fearful. He refused to play more with me and when my younger brother beat him once, he quit playing completely.
> 
> I don't think I was more than 10 when chess ended for him.
> 
> We lived a town with a Big Ten football team. He only took us to one or two games. One professional baseball game. Nothing else ever. He said the US was a primitive society. He did understand that if you don't play catch with kids, they won't be able to play with other kids or get picked for teams at school.
> 
> Sports should be one of the first places in life where you can fail and get encouraged and still be loved.
> 
> Your wife will love you more for playing sports with your boys. You ought to get good sack time if your kids are happy playing ball.
> 
> The football heroes when I was kid were Bart Starr, Jerry Kramer, Deacon Jones. Guess OT remembers those days. Not living in the US, I only follow football a little. Seems like folks are scared about brain damage now.
> 
> BW's going raise a swim star.


My son is a chess player too. I never let him win. When he does, I will be his number one fan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> My son is a chess player too. I never let him win. When he does, I will be his number one fan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I used to play my dad as well. Good times.


----------



## LongWalk

> I'm equally proud of S9 who has absolutely no interest in sports but is exceptionally smart. All A's in school and wants to join a chess team and start creating his own APP for iPhone.


Same here eldest daughter is into sports. She's 15, plays the guitar. Your doesn't like them much. Love does not depend on that.


----------



## BWBill

When I taught my kids chess I spotted them pieces to keep the games fair. As they started to win I put more of my pieces back on the board. Kept the games interesting for both of us.


_The football heroes when I was kid were Bart Starr, Jerry Kramer, Deacon Jones._

Yeah, back when players who danced in the end zone got maimed on the next play.


----------



## GutPunch

Tony Dorset Danny White Bo Jackson Dan Fouts
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

I remember Fran Tarkenton pulled a quarterback sneak and ran one in on the Patriots. He danced around the end zone like a monkey on crystal meth. 

Next set of downs, the Pats got charged three times for roughing the passer. My only regret was he walked off the field and wasn't carried.


----------



## Ceegee

GutPunch said:


> Tony Dorset Danny White Bo Jackson Dan Fouts
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Loving the Cowboy references. 

Participating in sports teaches kids so many things like teamwork, commitment, hardworking, etc. 

Pro sports also serve a great purpose. Talking about sports stories with my dad is something I still do. Particularly the Cowboys. He'd tell me stories about Bob Lilly, Don Meredith and Bob Hayes. We share memories of Roger Staubach, Ed Jones and "The Manster" Randy White. 

As long as we have the Cowboys we always have something to talk about. It's something we can bind over forever. 

I hope to have these same conversations with my kids when I get older. They are special.


----------



## LongWalk

BWBill said:


> When I taught my kids chess I spotted them pieces to keep the games fair. As they started to win I put more of my pieces back on the board. Kept the games interesting for both of us.
> 
> 
> _The football heroes when I was kid were Bart Starr, Jerry Kramer, Deacon Jones._
> 
> Yeah, back when players who danced in the end zone got maimed on the next play.


America was a different country back then. Americans in Europe talk about getting foreign citizenship. A lot of them have become ashamed of our country. All the dancing in the end zone is sort of symptomatic.

Imagine that Tiger Woods could be exposed as a cheater, then come back and be publicly rehabilitated. I am a not a TW's hater, but it shows how society is different. His ex wife put a hard 180 on him. Thought a few months, then divorced his aßß. Now he's got an even hotter, richer babe. Go figure (that's a new expression for me, feels sort of phony, but am using it.... go figure.)


----------



## Chuck71

Greene, Greenwood, White, Furness, Ham, Russell, Lambert, Blount, Shell, Winston.......Steel Curtain.....and that's just the D


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> Greene, Greenwood, White, Furness, Ham, Russell, Lambert, Blount, Shell, Winston.......Steel Curtain.....and that's just the D


Hated those guys. They were awesome.


----------



## LongWalk

I remember them. Now pro football means nothing to me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

if you took players from the all-decade D from 1960s and 70s and put them on teams today..........they would be thrown out of the league for giving Tom Brady a "boo-boo"


----------



## Bullwinkle

You're right, Chucky.

You remember Conrad Dobler? Used to bite everybody?


----------



## LongWalk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_UnitasRemember Johnny Unitas?


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> if you took players from the all-decade D from 1960s and 70s and put them on teams today..........they would be thrown out of the league for giving Tom Brady a "boo-boo"


Players from that era were tough, no doubt. Do you really think any of them could get past these 350+ lb dudes today? I don't know. These guys are much bigger, faster and stronger.


----------



## Northern Monkey

Same deal with proper actual football.. 

Modern sportsmen are wusses because of the pampered environment. 

I just look at ability. An old star with modern training would still be a star in most cases. Most modern wusses would have a harder time adjusting to when physical contact meant CONTACT imo.

NFL is still a genuinely physical sport unlike soccer. I miss the days of players having to earn the physical right to have skill by being tough enough in the first place.


----------



## GutPunch

The way they protect qb's and wr's has fundamentally changed the game. Defensive players are at a extreme disadvantage these days.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Getting misty-eyed thinking about how long till football season starts.


----------



## Northern Monkey

I'm gonna need help picking a team at some point.

Love watching it and have a de ent grasp of the game for a brit but you can't beat a bit of tribalism to really get going!


----------



## Bullwinkle

It's all about tribalism, NM. Brings out the worst in us. Why I love it.


----------



## GutPunch

Nothing makes me prouder than to see my son on the bottom of the pile driving his elbow into the back of the opponent while they lay there helpless.

To the ladies....(or maybe the one lady) that reads my thread....

I am joking.


----------



## Northern Monkey

Amen.

Hard to get into it from here. Really enjoyed watching the Redskins last season from the games we het over here. I like seeing the ball ran with so RG3 fits I guess, but I don't have an attachment to the team.


----------



## Ceegee

Northern Monkey said:


> I'm gonna need help picking a team at some point.
> 
> Love watching it and have a de ent grasp of the game for a brit but you can't beat a bit of tribalism to really get going!


NM, I suggest watching College football over pro. More intense play and rivalries. They play the game the way it should be played and players aren't out to just make a name for themselves. 

There are a lot of SEC guys on this thread. That's where the best teams are at. 

If you want to follow a real good one I'd recommend the Texas A&M Aggies. They beat Bama pretty good last year.


----------



## Northern Monkey

It's getting the games though. We get double header of NFL on Sundays and not much else.


----------



## Ceegee

I thought you guys in Alamabama would be jumping all over me for the A&M comment.


----------



## GutPunch

Ceegee said:


> I thought you guys in Alamabama would be jumping all over me for the A&M comment.


Auburn Fan. I was probably cheering harder than you were.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch

I hope you're reading a good self-help book right now. I think that's a very Alpha thing to do, your wife is feeling frisky after a couple of wine coolers and you say, give me a minute, I'm reading DeMello about self-transfiguration.


----------



## just got it 55

GutPunch said:


> Don't admire me. I'm a wounded bird like the rest of us. I'm
> just a little further along in the process.
> 
> Listen to the advice you get. Filter thru it. Believe it.
> Show your wife who the man is. She'll get mad of course.
> Don't engage her when she does. This will make her more mad.
> Next thing you know the anger turns into respect and next
> thing you know there is a knock on your door.
> 
> However, be careful what ye wish for.


GP I am going to stop right here and introduce myself to the thread, PG 108.I think I am going to write a novel based on your story. ( I will donate the proceeds to the Alabama LL for coaching training to recognize talent) When I catch up I am hoping the story ends well I will know more. You have made some really important friends here. I am sure you are thankful for that. 

To be able to share your challenge with others that can relate is invaluable. Their incite may save your sole. I hope for the best. It will break my heart if when I catch up it does not go your way. But I can see you will survive one way or the other


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Auburn Fan. I was probably cheering harder than you were.


Same here

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

old timer said:


> Same here
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then we're all friends here.


----------



## just got it 55

GutPunch said:


> Chuck,
> 
> You are spot on as to how I'm feeling. My self esteem and pride have always been healthy. She has disturbed this with her actions.
> 
> My sub-conscious keeps saying.....she cheated...walk away.
> 
> What is sad here is that I see all the other WAW's on these threads and their husbands pining for a second chance that never comes. Here I'm getting it and a beating myself up for taking it.


Ambivalence by definition.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Ceegee said:


> Then we're all friends here.


Not so fast. I'm a Gator.

I have a hierarchy for who I'll root for:

1 Gators over all
2 Any SEC team over any non-SEC team
3 Any SEC East team over any SEC West team (hasn't worked out well lately.)
4 Any team from Florida except Florida State.
5 Anybody playing against Notre Dame
6 Anybody except Notre Dame playing against Florida State.

I have a little pity for Ohio State. They're not really tough enough to hang with SEC teams, but I kind of feel bad for them since Florida beat them in the national championship games in football and basketball in the same year. Sucks to be them.


----------



## old timer

Ceegee said:


> Then we're all friends here.


I'm a bit different than a lot of Auburn fans. 

I pull for AU, then UA, then SEC. 

I wanted UA to win the game against A&M. But Johnny Football was just too much for UA to handle last year. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

When UT would play Florida......everyone had the flags out and on antennas 

you didn't have to watch the game to know the score

the more orange flags you saw being taken down LOL

you knew, Florida had to be up by 28


----------



## Nucking Futs

Chuck71 said:


> When UT would play Florida......everyone had the flags out and on antennas
> 
> you didn't have to watch the game to know the score
> 
> the more orange flags you saw being taken down LOL
> 
> you knew, Florida had to be up by 28


I think Florida is in the same boat now. I don't think we have that elite coach we need to push to the championship. I'm not impressed with his recruiting. I wish we could steal Dan Mullen from Mississippi State.

ETA Lol, ever sentence starts with I.


----------



## just got it 55

GutPunch said:


> I don't think we hillbillies have evolved quite yet into the modern man. Anytime I cried when I was a kid, my Dad said "Cut it out or I will give you something to really cry about."


As a child when I cried my MOTHER would put me in front of a mirror to show me what I looked like :scratchhead:


----------



## just got it 55

GutPunch said:


> Your right, since Mrs. GP moved back in, I think I have repu$$ified. I'll be glad when football season starts so I can scream at my son to take his dress off and hit somebody.
> 
> Proud Papa Alert
> 
> Yesterday while playing catch with my seven year old he flat missed the ball and I caught him square in the head. He dropped like a sack of potatoes.
> 
> He cried for a couple of minutes and then got back up and started throwing again. I have never been prouder. No way I would have kept throwing at his age. I would have ran into the house scared. Love that boy.


I know that feeling my oldest son was a star BB player and gymnast .In LL he went 3 years without an error. He also was small and overlooked I had to fight for him to play on the traveling all-star team. His coach went to bat for him in the selection committee.

More to the point, at a meet he crashed and burned in warm ups on high bar. Doing double back tucks. This is a move he had done for years. He had just lost his release point. He would go through his entire routine and just drop and release. This lasted about a month. Finally one night at the gym he and his coach decided to work through it.

Here he is 12 years old. Over and over he works through his release only to release about 12 ft. in the air above the bar hit his shins on the bar each time crash to the floor roll up in the corner until the pain to go away and doe’s it again. He finally worked through his fear and gets it done after several attempts.

In Las Vega at a national meet with 48 states 4 countries and 3600 gymnast he won the all-around .Proud Papa moment ,but in no way did it match the pride I felt in him that night at the gym.

When you face up to it you are never beaten even if you fail.

The lesson for you as his Dad is when he gets put in the outfield not being recognized for his skill & talent and he feels the frustration, the teaching moment is

“The Cream Always Rises to the Top”

The life lesson for you is

When you face up to it you are never beaten even if you fail.


----------



## Conrad

old timer said:


> I'm a bit different than a lot of Auburn fans.
> 
> I pull for AU, then UA, then SEC.
> 
> I wanted UA to win the game against A&M. But Johnny Football was just too much for UA to handle last year.
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That play where he got hit... ball popped up in the air... he got it back turned and threw back across his body for the touchdown?

That may have been the best single play I've seen a quarterback make.

The amount of composure necessary to pull that off?

Inhuman


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> That play where he got hit... ball popped up in the air... he got it back turned and threw back across his body for the touchdown?
> 
> That may have been the best single play I've seen a quarterback make.
> 
> The amount of composure necessary to pull that off?
> 
> Inhuman


Defining Heisman moment.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> That play where he got hit... ball popped up in the air... he got it back turned and threw back across his body for the touchdown?
> 
> That may have been the best single play I've seen a quarterback make.
> 
> The amount of composure necessary to pull that off?
> 
> Inhuman


He has definitely got the it factor.

You can't coach that kind of stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

just got it 55 said:


> I know that feeling my oldest son was a star BB player and gymnast .In LL he went 3 years without an error. He also was small and overlooked I had to fight for him to play on the traveling all-star team. His coach went to bat for him in the selection committee.
> 
> More to the point, at a meet he crashed and burned in warm ups on high bar. Doing double back tucks. This is a move he had done for years. He had just lost his release point. He would go through his entire routine and just drop and release. This lasted about a month. Finally one night at the gym he and his coach decided to work through it.
> 
> Here he is 12 years old. Over and over he works through his release only to release about 12 ft. in the air above the bar hit his shins on the bar each time crash to the floor roll up in the corner until the pain to go away and doe’s it again. He finally worked through his fear and gets it done after several attempts.
> 
> In Las Vega at a national meet with 48 states 4 countries and 3600 gymnast he won the all-around .Proud Papa moment ,but in no way did it match the pride I felt in him that night at the gym.
> 
> When you face up to it you are never beaten even if you fail.
> 
> The lesson for you as his Dad is when he gets put in the outfield not being recognized for his skill & talent and he feels the frustration, the teaching moment is
> 
> “The Cream Always Rises to the Top”
> 
> The life lesson for you is
> 
> When you face up to it you are never beaten even if you fail.


Great story....heck I was feeling proud
for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

Thanks I have minimal athletic acomplishments in my life I worked so hard just to be average. I was the first on and last off the ice at 04:00 (Thats the origional zero dark thirty )But I was on a National Champion Pee Wee Hockey team.That grit and effort earned me the last spot on it.

We teach our children so much through athletics and team sports.The victory is in the strugle to achive not to achive greatness.I can see you are a special man and father I am proud of YOU


----------



## LongWalk

Conrad said:


> That play where he got hit... ball popped up in the air... he got it back turned and threw back across his body for the touchdown?
> 
> That may have been the best single play I've seen a quarterback make.
> 
> The amount of composure necessary to pull that off?
> 
> Inhuman


YouTube, at about 5 minute mark

When he leaves the pocket his moves are deceptive.


----------



## Ceegee

LongWalk said:


> YouTube, at about 5 minute mark
> 
> When he leaves the pocket his moves are deceptive.


He's deceptively fast.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

You get some today?


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> GP
> 
> You get some today?


LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

http://toqonline.com/archives/v7n2/v7no2_Devlin.pdfHave you seen this?

This report says that most WAW never return, willingly and sincerely.


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> http://toqonline.com/archives/v7n2/v7no2_Devlin.pdfHave you seen this?
> 
> This report says that most WAW never return, willingly and sincerely.


My question is that good or bad?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

LongWalk said:


> http://toqonline.com/archives/v7n2/v7no2_Devlin.pdfHave you seen this?
> 
> This report says that most WAW never return, willingly and sincerely.


I read that a year ago.

It's very telling.

The stories on this board all sound the same because we have all have been fed the same lie.

My buddy just got married and I tell him, "don't lose yourself"... 

We must keep what made us authentic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

ReGroup said:


> I read that a year ago.
> 
> It's very telling.
> 
> The stories on this board all sound the same because* we have all have been fed the same lie.*
> 
> My buddy just got married and I tell him, "don't lose yourself"...
> 
> We must keep what made us authentic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


By the time the average guy figures out what makes women tick, it's often too late. He believes that in exchange for being grown up and responsible, i.e., pvssy whipped, he will lose his freedom but at least get laid and have a loyal friend. May not be true all the time.


----------



## Conrad

LongWalk said:


> By the time the average guy figures out what makes women tick, it's often too late. He believes that in exchange for being grown up and responsible, i.e., pvssy whipped, he will lose his freedom but at least get laid and have a loyal friend. May not be true all the time.


More likely to be totally untrue.

But, it makes sense - if you're dealing with a man.


----------



## GutPunch

Well....sh*t hit the fan last night. My humor came back to bite me. 

While watching Snow White and the Huntsman, there came a scene where Snow White dances with one of the dwarves.

Mrs. GP states something like "Gross! They smell like cabbage"

GP responds "Hell...How is that any different than your midget?"

Needless to say I think I hurt her feelings real bad. She accused me of being checked out and I know she's right. Told her I wanted to separate this morning. She pleaded for us not to and here I am typing this up while she is at an AA meeting. 

I told her if things are going to work, I need to fall in love all over again. That what I had is dead and gone. For the sake of my kids I will persevere a while longer. Rage is bottled up inside of me. I have got to channel it positively.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> More likely to be totally untrue.
> 
> But, it makes sense - if you're dealing with a man.


Most likely total BS. 

But, hey, everybody loves Raymond.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Well....sh*t hit the fan last night. My humor came back to bite me.
> 
> While watching Snow White and the Huntsman, there came a scene where Snow White dances with one of the dwarves.
> 
> Mrs. GP states something like "Gross! They smell like cabbage"
> 
> GP responds "Hell...How is that any different than your midget?"
> 
> Needless to say I think I hurt her feelings real bad. She accused me of being checked out and I know she's right. Told her I wanted to separate this morning. She pleaded for us not to and here I am typing this up while she is at an AA meeting.
> 
> I told her if things are going to work, I need to fall in love all over again. That what I had is dead and gone. For the sake of my kids I will persevere a while longer. Rage is bottled up inside of me. I have got to channel it positively.


It might not be channeling that you need for the rage but a way to get it out.

After my life changing event I did a number of spectacularly stupid things to get out the rage.

Almost killed myself in the end.

My Mom & Dad were quite worried about me.

After I realized that if I did not stop I would be dead soon I found that some martial arts, gym and just getting my ass kicked in a number of physical ways helped calm the rage.

You have to try something different GP.

Or it will cost you your marriage.

You might say "What marriage HM64?"

But I will remind you that you are there and Mrs GP is still there so "That marriage my friend".

Keep trying I know you want to get to a better place.

Hm


----------



## Bullwinkle

Rage! Incredible anger and resentment. Sounds vaguely familiar, Punch. 

Here is my advice, for whatever that is worth - short of killing her, let the anger out. 

Don't let these TAM Kool-Aid drinkers talk you into yoga or Tai Chi or some other horseshyt.


----------



## Conrad

Punch,

You need to talk?

Let me know.


----------



## Ceegee

GutPunch said:


> Well....sh*t hit the fan last night. My humor came back to bite me.
> 
> While watching Snow White and the Huntsman, there came a scene where Snow White dances with one of the dwarves.
> 
> Mrs. GP states something like "Gross! They smell like cabbage"
> 
> GP responds "Hell...How is that any different than your midget?"
> 
> Needless to say I think I hurt her feelings real bad. She accused me of being checked out and I know she's right. Told her I wanted to separate this morning. She pleaded for us not to and here I am typing this up while she is at an AA meeting.
> 
> I told her if things are going to work, I need to fall in love all over again. That what I had is dead and gone. For the sake of my kids I will persevere a while longer. Rage is bottled up inside of me. I have got to channel it positively.


You say your humor came back to bite you. It would seem you regret what you said. Maybe; but you shouldn't dwell on it. It's probably going to happen again. Don't beat yourself up about it. 

What are you compelled to do about it, if anything?


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> You say your humor came back to bite you. It would seem you regret what you said. Maybe; but you shouldn't dwell on it. It's probably going to happen again. Don't beat yourself up about it.
> 
> What are you compelled to do about it, if anything?


The gallows humor associated with sarcasm and the death of the relationship isn't constructive.

BUT.. pain does need an outlet.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Punch,
> 
> You need to talk?
> 
> Let me know.


Thanks...I got to find an outlet. 

Stupid dwarves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> The gallows humor associated with sarcasm and the death of the relationship isn't constructive.
> 
> BUT.. pain does need an outlet.


Sure it does. It's a normal human response. It's a knee jerk reaction therefore easy (at least for us) to excuse. 

I'm curious what GP feels right now. Where his thoughts are leading him.


----------



## GutPunch

Ceegee said:


> Sure it does. It's a normal human response. It's a knee jerk reaction therefore easy (at least for us) to excuse.
> 
> I'm curious what GP feels right now. Where his thoughts are leading him.


I will try to write my feelings in the morning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Thanks...I got to find an outlet.
> 
> Stupid dwarves.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If it will help, I'm here.

Let me know.


----------



## LongWalk

GP,

A while back you thought that your TAM space was busted by your wife, but then you said that she only read a couple of pages. It is impossible that she would be uninterested if she is fully functioning. We assume that she is not lying on the sofa in a state of depression or anything like that. Either she has read much more of this thread or she doesn’t dare to. In either case, it is because she has very afraid that you will leave her. And her feminine intuition has not let her down.

You cannot be in love with a doormat wife. You aren't that sort of guy. It is hard to imagine falling in love if you don’t have some sort of other environment, a vacation somewhere but presumably with all the challenges, speeding ticket, etc. your economic situation is strained. Not good for your marriage.

Probably it doesn’t help anymore to intellectualize about the percentage that her drug addiction was responsible for versus the biological itch for strange (that both men and women have) she made decisions. BW's wife drunk or not brained him with a bottle. Her decision.

All I can think is that having a lot of sex can help, but you’ve been doing that and still is there is a risk that is sets off bad thoughts.

Perhaps, in a few days time you'll see her with your children or something and there will a love trigger instead of an affair reminder. Have you had any moments of affection for her that surge through the pain? Or is everything stone dead inside?

The gnome probably was a real disappointment to her... but then just like LL's wife she looked for a new replacement instead of coming straight home with her tail between her legs. And then when that failed she self medicated. You have reason to be pissed. The limbic brain is by definition a mind-fvcker.

I sent the article about psychology female infidelity to a couple of TAM women, they said hormones and genes are all BS excuses. It's all conscious decision making process, according to one of them.


----------



## Chaparral

Reconcilliation is a long process, not measured in weeks or even months.

Betrayed spouses need counseling with a good counselor experienced in infidelity and especially ptsd whether reconciling or not. Severe trauma MUST be treated. There are only a few things more severe than adultery.


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> http://toqonline.com/archives/v7n2/v7no2_Devlin.pdfHave you seen this?
> 
> This report says that most WAW never return, willingly and sincerely.



allow me three days to gather info and I can debunk that article

ps who wrote it? might be, a hint


----------



## Chuck71

GP some way or another you have to get this out

if you had cheated on her, would she take 'pot shots' at you

everything takes time, just like it took time for you to fall in love with her

I felt the same thing when I went back to g/fs years ago


Guns N' Roses - Estranged - YouTube


----------



## Bullwinkle

Interesting article. But I was hoping for explicit illustrations.


----------



## GutPunch

OK....here goes.

I am emotionally and physically tired. Mrs. GP can sense my disconnect from her. She pretty much told me that she can see I don't love her anymore. Not entirely true but it is partly true. 

Back in September before the start of this mess, I was in a good place. I lifted weights three days a week and played full court competitive basketball another three days a week. I ate healthy six times a day. I was active with my children. Most importantly, I was happy with myself.

DDay knocked me to my knees. Now many months later, I eat garbage, quit exercising, stay constantly tired. I can hardly even stay focused at work. I have constant negative triggers concerning the A. They seem to be devouring my energy. This has really increased since Mrs. GP has come home. 

The stress of my detachment is now effecting Mrs. GP's health. Her Ulcerative Colitis is flaring due to the stress of my detachment. I feel terrible for this and question if it's worth it. 

I have to get right with me before I can give her what she wants. I have to love myself again and recover from this emasculation I experienced. I hate pity parties and what I am writing sounds like one to me. If I just had the strength to fight, I would. Maybe there is something to this PTSD. I have got to find a way to muscle thru this.


----------



## ReGroup

GutPunch said:


> OK....here goes.
> 
> I am emotionally and physically tired. Mrs. GP can sense my disconnect from her. She pretty much told me that she can see I don't love her anymore. Not entirely true but it is partly true.
> 
> Back in September before the start of this mess, I was in a good place. I lifted weights three days a week and played full court competitive basketball another three days a week. I ate healthy six times a day. I was active with my children. Most importantly, I was happy with myself.
> 
> DDay knocked me to my knees. Now many months later, I eat garbage, quit exercising, stay constantly tired. I can hardly even stay focused at work. I have constant negative triggers concerning the A. They seem to be devouring my energy. This has really increased since Mrs. GP has come home.
> 
> The stress of my detachment is now effecting Mrs. GP's health. Her Ulcerative Colitis is flaring due to the stress of my detachment. I feel terrible for this and question if it's worth it.
> 
> I have to get right with me before I can give her what she wants. I have to love myself again and recover from this emasculation I experienced. I hate pity parties and what I am writing sounds like one to me. If I just had the strength to fight, I would. Maybe there is something to this PTSD. I have got to find a way to muscle thru this.


This mirrors exactly the way I feel sometimes.

I think more than anything you're disappointed that DD interrupted that rhythm you had going for yourself.

You feel drained. 

You need to get it going again brother.


----------



## staystrong

GP, you hate pity parties but that probably means you need to have one once in a while. I am prone to pity parties so that means I need to man up like GP more often. It's all about balance. 

How do you react to the triggers and what does Mrs GP do to help you?


----------



## Bullwinkle

We hear you, GP. But you know there's no easy answer. All of it is just going to take time.

The problem with separating is I believe most separations end in divorce. Is that what you really want? For you and those boys?

Is there any way you can get away by your self for a couple of weeks? Go to a beach or up into some mountains?


----------



## Chuck71

GP you are on the right path, you may not think so but you are


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> How do you react to the triggers and what does Mrs GP do to help you?


Let's see....I internalize and let it fester like a volcano. Then I erupt and say something really mean. She gets hurt and withdraws. Pretty much the opposite of what we need to be doing.


----------



## GutPunch

ReGroup said:


> This mirrors exactly the way I feel sometimes.
> 
> I think more than anything you're disappointed that DD interrupted that rhythm you had going for yourself.
> 
> You feel drained.
> 
> You need to get it going again brother.


We'll get there again, Group.


----------



## staystrong

The PTSD thing is effing real. PISD is the newly coined term ("I" stands for infidelity). This **** haunts our lives daily, even hourly and by the minute. Your ego and male pride are both shattered. I'm right there with you. Many of us here are. Nothing hurts this bad; you feel your wife is tainted. You feel your whole damn life is tainted. It is. I'm not in your position and I can certainly see where some BS's feel that they just can't do it, too much has changed. Have you given yourself a time commitment to seeing how you feel?


----------



## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> Let's see....I internalize and let it fester like a volcano. Then I erupt and say something really mean. She gets hurt and withdraws. Pretty much the opposite of what we need to be doing.


Yep, pretty much. 

What is she doing pro-actively? And does it help?


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> The PTSD thing is effing real. PISD is the newly coined term ("I" stands for infidelity). This **** haunts our lives daily, even hourly and by the minute. Your ego and male pride are both shattered. I'm right there with you. Many of us here are. Nothing hurts this bad; you feel your wife is tainted. You feel your whole damn life is tainted. It is. I'm not in your position and I can certainly see where some BS's feel that they just can't do it, too much has changed. Have you given yourself a time commitment to seeing how you feel?


No time commitment, I am going to battle this daily. First, get myself back on track.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Let's see....I internalize and let it fester like a volcano. Then I erupt and say something really mean. She gets hurt and withdraws. Pretty much the opposite of what we need to be doing.


I did this for awhile.

Look up Pandora's Box.

It's actually normal.

http://thefascinatingwoman.blogspot.com/2008/01/pandoras-box-effect.html


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> I did this for awhile.
> 
> Look up Pandora's Box.
> 
> It's actually normal.
> 
> the fascinating woman: the pandora's box effect


Normal. I'll take it.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Normal. I'll take it.


Several times... not just once.

We'd be having a discussion... and I'd trigger into this stuff.

Out in the backyard screaming into the phone @1:30AM.

Yes, it hurts - and you need to work through it.

(I don't recommend screaming)


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> Several times... not just once.
> 
> We'd be having a discussion... and I'd trigger into this stuff.
> 
> Out in the backyard screaming into the phone @1:30AM.
> 
> Yes, it hurts - and you need to work through it.
> 
> (I don't recommend screaming)


How did your wife react? 

Did her reaction help or hurt?


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> How did your wife react?
> 
> Did her reaction help or hurt?


She somehow managed to get off the phone.

We spoke about it the next day or two.

She told me she wasn't ok with it.

Frankly, neither was I.


----------



## GutPunch

Just now got my taxes back.

Uncle Sam wants $8000.00.

R U kidding me? 

Another $5k for bail and to get a Lawyer started on Mrs. GP's case. 

I'm fixing to go buy some scuba gear jump in the ocean and start searching for the lost city of Atlantis. 

I broke even last year and nothings really changed. WTF?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Just now got my taxes back.
> 
> Uncle Sam wants $8000.00.
> 
> R U kidding me?
> 
> Another $5k for bail and to get a Lawyer started on Mrs. GP's case.
> 
> I'm fixing to go buy some scuba gear jump in the ocean and start searching for the lost city of Atlantis.
> 
> I broke even last year and nothings really changed. WTF?


This belongs in the politics forum, but I bet you didn't realize you were one of those rich guys, did you?


----------



## ReGroup

GutPunch said:


> Just now got my taxes back.
> 
> Uncle Sam wants $8000.00.
> 
> R U kidding me?
> 
> Another $5k for bail and to get a Lawyer started on Mrs. GP's case.
> 
> I'm fixing to go buy some scuba gear jump in the ocean and start searching for the lost city of Atlantis.
> 
> I broke even last year and nothings really changed. WTF?


I am a federal employee - so lord knows I don't make tons of money - yet... I have a bill from the IRS. 

S*cks!


----------



## Conrad

ReGroup said:


> I am a federal employee - so lord knows I don't make tons of money - yet... I have a bill from the IRS.
> 
> S*cks!


Another one of those rich guys.


----------



## GutPunch

I just don't understand what was different from last year to this year. 2013 is now officially the worst year ever. 

Anybody got Wesley Snipes' phone number? I need some tax advice.


----------



## Ceegee

GutPunch said:


> I just don't understand what was different from last year to this year. 2013 is now officially the worst year ever.
> 
> Anybody got Wesley Snipes' phone number? I need some tax advice.


Tax preparers often make mistakes. If you have last year's return go through them both line by line. There weren't any changes in the tax code to affect it that much.


----------



## GutPunch

Ceegee said:


> Tax preparers often make mistakes. If you have last year's return go through them both line by line. There weren't any changes in the tax code to affect it that much.


I will definitely be hitting the books tonight. I'm speechless. 

If it turns out Mrs. GP did this it will take all seven dwarves and the entire hobbit nation to hold me back.


----------



## Chaparral

2013 we lost the social security tax break too. People with withholding saw this in January.

I heard a blurb last week on the radio about a person being treated with ptsd and he said the treatment turned his whole life back around.

Weight training gives me an immediate morale and physical boost. Some times you just have to force yourself, its getting started that's the hard part, not the lifting. As a matter of fact it doesn't take that much lifting to help a lot, especially with my mood.


----------



## GutPunch

chapparal said:


> 2013 we lost the social security tax break too. People with withholding saw this in January.
> 
> I heard a blurb last week on the radio about a person being treated with ptsd and he said the treatment turned his whole life back around.
> 
> Weight training gives me an immediate morale and physical boost. Some times you just have to force yourself, its getting started that's the hard part, not the lifting. As a matter of fact it doesn't take that much lifting to help a lot, especially with my mood.


I know....I lifted religiously until DDay hit. I will lift again. I will be me again. However, I will be lifting broke.


----------



## tom67

You could call them up and work on a payment plan I did that about 6 years ago.


----------



## staystrong

Does weightlifting take away the rage or add to it? I could see the testosterone boost going both ways.


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Does weightlifting take away the rage or add to it? I could see the testosterone boost going both ways.


I imagine it's a good outlet for the rage. The T boost will only make you feel better. I don't think the slight increase will make you go roid rage on anybody.


----------



## LongWalk

You need the endogenous morphine fix, daily... Basketball... has your wife quit smoking? Order her to start running. 

Be strong GP, TAM is selling advertising spots to therapists based on the traffic you are generating.


----------



## just got it 55

GutPunch said:


> No time commitment, I am going to battle this daily. First, get myself back on track.


GP Just try to remember that your wife is not a serial cheater she is and addict. Remember people turn to stealing, selling their own children for sex to get the fix from dope sickness. I know the adultery hurts like hell. I am sure in the support groups they have told you all this. Just try to keep in in mind.


----------



## GutPunch

just got it 55 said:


> GP Just try to remember that your wife is not a serial cheater she is and addict. Remember people turn to stealing, selling their own children for sex to get the fix from dope sickness. I know the adultery hurts like hell. I am sure in the support groups they have told you all this. Just try to keep in in mind.


On a rational level, I see and agree with this. However my emotional side takes over sometimes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

GutPunch said:


> On a rational level, I see and agree with this. However my emotional side takes over sometimes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


GP You’re an engineer. Think logically & calculating like one it's your nature that's what engineer’s do


----------



## GutPunch

Got my caffeine pills and water bottles ready. Today is the day I begin to kick my Diet Coke addiction.


----------



## veronicawalls

Just be careful with those pills and don't become like Jessi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bflYjF90t7c
Thought it would give you a giggle. I loved this show as a kid.


----------



## GutPunch

veronicawalls said:


> Just be careful with those pills and don't become like Jessi.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bflYjF90t7c
> Thought it would give you a giggle. I loved this show as a kid.


LOL...We must be around the same age.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Got my caffeine pills and water bottles ready. Today is the day I begin to kick my Diet Coke addiction.


Let me know how it goes. I have a Coke Zero addiction
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

happyman64 said:


> Let me know how it goes. I have a Coke Zero addiction
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Me too HM. I think it must have crack in it or something.


----------



## Conrad

Have you guys seen those new soda fountains?

ANY flavor of Coke you've ever heard of - all at once.

I think they're called "Freestyle" soda fountains.

8 different flavors of Coke Zero Happy!

Eat your heart out.

Mike Bloomberg might let you have one of those machines in the next century.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> Have you guys seen those new soda fountains?
> 
> ANY flavor of Coke you've ever heard of - all at once.
> 
> I think they're called "Freestyle" soda fountains.
> 
> 8 different flavors of Coke Zero Happy!
> 
> Eat your heart out.
> 
> Mike Bloomberg might let you have one of those machines in the next century.


Conrad's a coke pusher...


----------



## GutPunch

You guys suggest cutting back or cold turkey?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Garry2012

So GP, im late to this thread...what is your status these days?


----------



## GutPunch

Garry2012 said:


> So GP, im late to this thread...what is your status these days?


I am trying to reconcile with my WS. 

She is a pharmacist with "childhood trauma" issues and got
hooked on pain killers etc. Real fun times.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> You guys suggest cutting back or cold turkey?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cutting back.


----------



## Ceegee

GutPunch said:


> You guys suggest cutting back or cold turkey?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Replace with a healthy alternative - green/mint teas are good.


----------



## GutPunch

Ceegee said:


> Replace with a healthy alternative - green/mint teas are good.


That doesn't sound appetizing. Is that yankee hot tea? Do I have to go to an incense shop to buy it? Do I need to sit on the floor and fold my legs indian style to drink it?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> That doesn't sound appetizing. Is that yankee hot tea? Do I have to go to an incense shop to buy it? Do I need to sit on the floor and fold my legs indian style to drink it?


No, but it doesn't hurt.


----------



## zillard

Ceegee said:


> Replace with a healthy alternative - green/mint teas are good.


Water. 

Fruit/veggie juice.


----------



## GutPunch

I drink like 3 liters a day. Nothing healthy about that. Thinking about joining Coca-Cola Anonymous.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I drink like 3 liters a day. Nothing healthy about that. Thinking about joining Coca-Cola Anonymous.


Turns your prostate into a prune


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Turns your prostate into a prune


I would call that a good reason to quit.


----------



## Garry2012

IM not a coke drinker (gave them up), but my son is a junkie...he gets lectured alot lol.


----------



## Chuck71

mom put Coke in my passy at 6 months

I was screwed from the start


----------



## Ceegee

GutPunch said:


> That doesn't sound appetizing. Is that yankee hot tea? Do I have to go to an incense shop to buy it? Do I need to sit on the floor and fold my legs indian style to drink it?


Yankee? Them's fighting words. I'm a boot-wearing Texas *******. 

Green tea is good and healthy. Although, right now I'm by the pool with the kids drinking a couple of cold ones checking out the single moms.


----------



## LongWalk

Real green tea is healthy. That's why at work we have an expensive high class Italian espresso machine. Everyone who gets tired goes and drinks a double so their eye bug out like on those inbreed Chinese goldfish that can hardly swim.

I am sure to be addicted and my contract is running out.

If you start working out again, the Coke addiction will be easy to beat.

Yesterday I ran into a couple summer training buddies at the 50m pool. They weren't very good shape either but we pushed ourselves and at the end we tried to swim with flippers and two of us had incapacitating calf cramps. Do a few more days like this and I'll be on the road to getting in better shape.

It's so much harder to hold on to muscle once you pass 50. Feels like you just get sore but the muscles remain stringy and weak. Testosterone is diminishing. Getting old sucks. I advise you to enjoy your beautiful wife while the going is good. Besides, what woman can understand you like she can?

Have her put out her cigs butt out in the Coke bottles.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Chuck71 said:


> mom put Coke in my *passy* at 6 months
> 
> I was screwed from the start


Careful! The mods will ban you for bypassing the filter. Besides, I thought you were a guy.


----------



## GutPunch

Nucking Futs said:


> Careful! The mods will ban you for bypassing the filter. Besides, I thought you were a guy.


LMAO...Nucking Futs I hope the mods don't figure out your user name filter bypass.

Passy is slang for pacifier. We called them binkies in our house.

...And nobody likes a hairy passy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good one, Punch. But I'm partial to the Landing Strip.


----------



## old timer

I got off the soft drinks while wrestling in HS. I may drink 6/year. 

I drink lots of water. Water w almost every meal. 
Milk w breakfast. 

And beer/vodka of course. Since I stopped smoking, I've really cut down on the beer and vodka. Go figure. 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Good one, Punch. But I'm partial to the Landing Strip.


I was talking about when you drop a pacifier on the floor and it gets hair on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pbartender

Giving up soda at work, and instead drinking black coffee when I needed a caffiene kick was how I lost my first 15 pounds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

GutPunch said:


> I was talking about when you drop a pacifier on the floor and it gets hair on it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your kids would have hated me, when a pacifier fell on the floor I wiped it off on the dog and gave it back.


----------



## happyman64

Garry2012 said:


> IM not a coke drinker (gave them up), but my son is a junkie...he gets lectured alot lol.


My nephew was too.

By the time he turned 16 he had an ulcer and his teeth were rotting out of his head.

He has not had a drop since then.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sorry I misunderstood. I hate a hairy passy too. I stand corrected.


----------



## Chuck71

Nucking Futs said:


> Careful! The mods will ban you for bypassing the filter. Besides, I thought you were a guy.


not much i could do as infant

no it was not meant as female repro

get mind from gutter

:rofl:


----------



## Bullwinkle

I prefer the gutter.


----------



## Chuck71

BW do i need to dip you in chocolate

and ship you to my ex's house?


----------



## GutPunch

Nucking Futs said:


> Your kids would have hated me, when a pacifier fell on the floor I wiped it off on the dog and gave it back.


When out and about, I would actually put the pacifier in my mouth to clean it if there wasn't a sink around. How gross is that. 

Well I'm not obsessing about POSOM so much now that I'm obsessing about a Diet Coke. Chugged four bottled waters and two caffeine pills already this morning.


----------



## Chuck71

Hands GP a fifth of JD.....makes the pain go away


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> Hands GP a fifth of JD.....makes the pain go away


You know what goes good with JD......Coke


----------



## Chuck71

When I was a senior in high school, I worked at pop's business. He would always keep a few 1.75L of Vodka in the back where mom couldn't see it. Anytime he sent me to the store for grapefruit juice...I knew he was starting the night 'a bit early.'

I decided I would be "an adult" and try the Vodka at work too. To sneak it by him, I did it when he was drinking and I mixed it with water. No harm, no foul. Until he said, "Here's a $10, go pick us up (insert cheap fast food)." It wasn't cute any more. I made it back but I never drank it at work again. But in hindsight, I was 17, I knew everything :rofl:


----------



## Bullwinkle

Chucky, just now saw your comment about dipping me in chocolate and sending me to your X's house. 

I'm usually game for anything but Im picturing her stuck in the window again. Sorry.


----------



## Chaparral

Ginger ale and Wild Turkey. Or a scalpel/sponge, shot of bourbon (real) and chase it with ginger ale, Schweppes is the best. Water is good too if it comes from the right place.


----------



## LongWalk

Chuck, did you change your profile pic?


----------



## Chuck71

LW yes I did.....tribute to a German heavy metal band


----------



## LongWalk

Which group? Here's a crazy German chick for you.


----------



## Chuck71

was that a paintball vid?


----------



## Bullwinkle

Best German band of all time - Ramstein. Their song Du Hast.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Bullwinkle said:


> Best German band of all time - Ramstein. Their song Du Hast.


Agreed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, where are you, bud, how's about an update?

Set down that Moon Pie and tell us the scoop.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Punch, where are you, bud, how's about an update?
> 
> Set down that Moon Pie and tell us the scoop.


Working hard to escape the negative triggers. Mrs. Punch is doing all she can to stay on a good path. I just feel like an emotional wasteland. Progress is slow. I struggle with negative thinking while at work. I'm just not happy. 

Going to the beach this weekend. Maybe that will cheer me up. This whole ordeal was so emasculating. It's hard for me to get back to where I was. I almost resent the fact that this episode has set me back so far.


----------



## staystrong

GP, do you have any specialized counseling e.g. CBT to help you with the triggers?


----------



## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> GP, do you have any specialized counseling e.g. CBT to help you with the triggers?


I have an individual counselor but honestly I haven't read a single thing she has given me to read. My fault. I have been so busy with work blah blah blah excuses.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GP, I'm not sure i have anything to add. Getting back in the gym sounds like an important step for you. How are your kids handling mom being back home? That's the part I'm struggling with right now. We're not in R but I fear they will resent me for not trying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, the beach sounds good, a nice break. Away from work and daily stresses. Hope it does you well. 

I guess all the initial anxiety and anger were just precursors to what you're dealing with now. Hang in there, it will all be with it in the end.


----------



## Awakening2012

GutPunch said:


> I have an individual counselor but honestly I haven't read a single thing she has given me to read. My fault. I have been so busy with work blah blah blah excuses.


Hi GP - 

Good to know you have some beach reading! Seriously, I hope the vacation gives you a nice break and helps you relax and have fun as a family. 

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## GutPunch

I just intercepted my wifes facebook message from the Garden Gnomes's girlfriend asking why there is a package from her in his garage. 

Holy Jesus ...... There is a God. 

Somebody is finally getting exposed. PLease tell me they were dating during the time frame. I am more excited than a kid in a candy store right now.


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> I just intercepted my wifes facebook message from the Garden Gnomes's girlfriend asking why there is a package from her in his garage.
> 
> Holy Jesus ...... There is a God.
> 
> Somebody is finally getting exposed. PLease tell me they were dating during the time frame. I am more excited than a kid in a candy store right now.


OOOPS! Guess the karma bus came to town.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I just intercepted my wifes facebook message from the Garden Gnomes's girlfriend asking why there is a package from her in his garage.
> 
> Holy Jesus ...... There is a God.
> 
> Somebody is finally getting exposed. PLease tell me they were dating during the time frame. I am more excited than a kid in a candy store right now.


Did you answer?

Let us help you with a response.


----------



## GutPunch

HER....Would u happen to know why your wife's name and address are on a package at my boyfriends house??

GP.....My name is GP. I saw the pic of the package on my wife's facebook account. That was sent from my wife. She had an affair with Matt from Sep. 2012 to Feb. 2013. My wife is a recovering opiate addict and he successfully 13th stepped her. My wife has been in in-patient rehab for 3 months and just got out. Your boyfriend knew she was married and had a six year old son and a three year old daughter at home. I apologize if you two were dating during the time period of the affair. I know too well the pain associated with betrayal. I hope this isn't the case.


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> HER....Would u happen to know why your wife's name and address are on a package at my boyfriends house??
> 
> GP.....My name is GP. I saw the pic of the package on my wife's facebook account. That was sent from my wife. She had an affair with Matt from Sep. 2012 to Feb. 2013. My wife is a recovering opiate addict and he successfully 13th stepped her. My wife has been in in-patient rehab for 3 months and just got out. Your boyfriend knew she was married and had a six year old son and a three year old daughter at home. I apologize if you two were dating during the time period of the affair. I know too well the pain associated with betrayal. I hope this isn't the case.


Professional perfect to the point.:smthumbup:


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> HER....Would u happen to know why your wife's name and address are on a package at my boyfriends house??
> 
> GP.....My name is GP. I saw the pic of the package on my wife's facebook account. That was sent from my wife. She had an affair with Matt from Sep. 2012 to Feb. 2013. My wife is a recovering opiate addict and he successfully 13th stepped her. My wife has been in in-patient rehab for 3 months and just got out. Your boyfriend knew she was married and had a six year old son and a three year old daughter at home. I apologize if you two were dating during the time period of the affair. I know too well the pain associated with betrayal. I hope this isn't the case.


ROFLMFAO... yes, yes, yes...!

(Of course you hope it is the case, but that won't hurt anyone)


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> ROFLMFAO... yes, yes, yes...!
> 
> (Of course you hope it is the case, but that won't hurt anyone)


Om isn't gonna know what hit him.


----------



## ReGroup

(Smiling Here)

Dishes and utensils will be flung around at his residence tonight.


----------



## ReGroup

GP, 

Leave lines of communications open to her in case he tries to lie.


----------



## Conrad

ReGroup said:


> GP,
> 
> Leave lines of communications open to her in case he tries to lie.


In case?


----------



## tom67

ReGroup said:


> GP,
> 
> Leave lines of communications open to her in case he tries to lie.


She may want to "chat" with Mrs. GP and have questions.


----------



## GutPunch

Damn I can't talk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> Damn I can't talk.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because you're laughing too hard.


----------



## Ceegee

Sounds like someone else is getting gut punched tonight.


----------



## GutPunch

Lol...She just messaged me.

"God Da**it"

All I can say is SWEET.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> Lol...She just messaged me.
> 
> "God Da**it"
> 
> All I can say is SWEET.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll get the popcorn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Lol...She just messaged me.
> 
> "God Da**it"
> 
> All I can say is SWEET.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The FB equivalent of an uppercut to the breadbasket.

AND, it doesn't carry the legal risks

Great job Punch.

You were patient and you persevered.

A little street justice delivered to our good buddy the Garden Gnome.

Celebrate tonight.


----------



## Chuck71

Wasn't fireworks due to be set off Thursday? LOL

Long time coming GP :smthumbup:


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> Wasn't fireworks due to be set off Thursday? LOL
> 
> Long time coming GP :smthumbup:


The blasting zone comes early for the Garden Gnome.


----------



## GutPunch

Is it normal to skip thru the house at 40 years old?

I've got even money this hospital nurse
is a recovering addict herself. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Is it normal to skip thru the house at 40 years old?
> 
> I've got even money this hospital nurse
> is a recovering addict herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do remember how bad you've been feeling lately?

Didn't think so.


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP

The other guys were right, you persevered, the chickens are coming home to roost. 

But this doesn't preclude you from still beating the absolute SHYT out of this walking turd.


----------



## GutPunch

My wife has gone to an AA meeting.

I made her leave her phone with me.

I hope this co*k-knocker calls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> My wife has gone to an AA meeting.
> 
> I made her leave her phone with me.
> 
> I hope this co*k-knocker calls.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do too.

But, once he hears you "answered" her correspondence, he won't.


----------



## LongWalk

GP, what exactly was the package? When was it sent? Did your wife ever tell you about it?


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> GP, what exactly was the package? When was it sent? Did your wife ever tell you about it?


XMAS present. Santa on my side to Bi*ch.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> XMAS present. Santa on my side to Bi*ch.


She meant so much to him, he didn't even open it.


----------



## LongWalk

Conrad said:


> She meant so much to him, he didn't even open it.


The man had his priorities. Busy watching PBS reruns of a Christmas Carol.


----------



## Brokenshadow

A fell wind blows when hell descends. 

All my best, brother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Brokenshadow

GutPunch said:


> My wife has gone to an AA meeting.
> 
> I made her leave her phone with me.
> 
> I hope this co*k-knocker calls.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Man, I hope so too. Who wouldn't want a nice late night meeting, in a dark parking lot? I've thought of trying to set the OM up for such an encounter. I wonder, would he wet his pants when he sees me, or just when he feels my hand close around his throat as the light fades from his eyes?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Brokenshadow said:


> Man, I hope so too. Who wouldn't want a nice late night meeting, in a dark parking lot? I've thought of trying to set the OM up for such an encounter. I wonder, would he wet his pants when he sees me, or just when he feels my hand close around his throat as the light fades from his eyes?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Broken

I like the way you talk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Brokenshadow

GutPunch said:


> Broken
> 
> I like the way you talk.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha, thanks. I've heard that before. Deep voice accompanies a silver tongue. If I ever find myself back in the dating pool, I think I'll be ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

A quick hit is okay but there are better ways

a slow, melodic torture, think TN Williams

when you are over it....let him go

2 hours, 2 days, 2 weeks, etc your call


----------



## TheGoodGuy

LongWalk said:


> GP, what exactly was the package? When was it sent? Did your wife ever tell you about it?


I too want to hear what was in the package
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, haven't you learned on TAM that thoughts of revenge are counter-productive, that you need to turn the other cheek, that you need to channel your energy towards cooking your wife a nice souffle and blah blah blah....


----------



## tom67

Bullwinkle said:


> GP, haven't you learned on TAM that thoughts of revenge are counter-productive, that you need to turn the other cheek, that you need to channel your energy towards cooking your wife a nice souffle and blah blah blah....


BW lives by this motto:biggrinangelA:


----------



## Ceegee

Bullwinkle said:


> GP, haven't you learned on TAM that thoughts of revenge are counter-productive, that you need to turn the other cheek, that you need to channel your energy towards cooking your wife a nice souffle and blah blah blah....


There's good revenge and bad. 

This is stellar.


----------



## tom67

Who was that one guy on tv Dr Leo Bascalia mr. love everybody of course he was divorced when preaching this dribble Hmm.


----------



## Shaggy

I'm never against revenge, but its gotta be revenge that doesn't burn you too


----------



## ReGroup

Shaggy said:


> I'm never against revenge, but its gotta be revenge that doesn't burn you too


Winkle would nuke an entire city to get his target.

I love that guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

GutPunch said:


> I made her leave her phone with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing to hide. She seems on the straight and arrow. Good job GP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

ReGroup said:


> Nothing to hide. She seems on the straight and arrow. Good job GP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to agree with this.

She's playing it completely straight.

Bright future.

BTW, I was on weather.com earlier. I saw a puff of greasy smoke over central Florida


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> I just intercepted my wifes facebook message from the Garden Gnomes's girlfriend asking why there is a package from her in his garage.
> 
> Holy Jesus ...... There is a God.
> 
> Somebody is finally getting exposed. PLease tell me they were dating during the time frame. I am more excited than a kid in a candy store right now.





GutPunch said:


> HER....*Would u happen to know why your wife's name and address are on a package at my boyfriends house??*
> 
> GP.....My name is GP. I saw the pic of the package on my wife's facebook account. That was sent from my wife. She had an affair with Matt from Sep. 2012 to Feb. 2013. My wife is a recovering opiate addict and he successfully 13th stepped her. My wife has been in in-patient rehab for 3 months and just got out. Your boyfriend knew she was married and had a six year old son and a three year old daughter at home. I apologize if you two were dating during the time period of the affair. I know too well the pain associated with betrayal. I hope this isn't the case.


GP, I am a bit confused by this sentence. "U" and "your wife's" would seem to address you, but she wrote to your wife via Facebook. She actually just asked your wife, right?


----------



## GutPunch

It was on my facebook too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Brokenshadow

TheGoodGuy said:


> I too want to hear what was in the package
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


All I can see is Brad Pitt in Seven....what's in the box???????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Brokenshadow said:


> All I can see is Brad Pitt in Seven....what's in the box???????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Buttplug, dildos, hand cuffs, lube, and some dynamite.

Or just a shirt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

> She had an affair with Matt from Sep. 2012 to Feb. 2013.


Hadn't had my head around the length of time. Horrible. I realize much of this was an EA but that makes it even more disgusting, given that he was playing two women at the same time.

He is/was doctor former addicts who was guru to others struggling with addiction, is that right? What a scum bag... has morals of middle aged man going on the web and pretending to love confused teen aged girls.

Will this GF come as surprize to your wife?

New pain GP but maybe some closure, too.


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> He is/was doctor former addicts who was guru to others struggling with addiction, is that right? What a scum bag... has morals of middle aged man going on the web and pretending to love confused teen aged girls.
> 
> Will this GF come as surprize to your wife?


Well it's hard for a midget to pick up chicks in a bar. He has found his niche. 

Total surprise to my wife. 

No pain from me as I am giddy.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Buttplug, dildos, hand cuffs, lube, and some dynamite.
> 
> Or just a shirt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Damn, you are feeling better.


----------



## GutPunch

I haven't been at work with a big ole grin on my face in a long time. I hope he wasn't able to lie and spin his way out of it. I hope this woman loves herself and not the we'll get thru it type. 

I noticed her facebook account has been shut down. 

I told my best friend and the first words out of his mouth were 
"What she look like, cuz you could probably..........."

Dude is a pig, that's why I love him.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Damn, Punch, good things come to those who wait.

But I must tell you that I coulda gone the rest of my life without hearing mention of a buttplug. That's why I got my azz tattooed years ago with 'EXIT ONLY".


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I haven't been at work with a big ole grin on my face in a long time. I hope he wasn't able to lie and spin his way out of it. I hope this woman loves herself and not the we'll get thru it type.
> 
> I noticed her facebook account has been shut down.
> 
> I told my best friend and the first words out of his mouth were
> "What she look like, cuz you could probably..........."
> 
> Dude is a pig, that's why I love him.


FWIW, I really do believe we're not quite as evolved as them.

But, I'm totally ok with that


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> FWIW, I really do believe we're not quite as evolved as them.
> 
> But, I'm totally ok with that


That's a good thing and I am OK with it too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

GutPunch said:


> Buttplug, dildos, hand cuffs, lube, and some dynamite.
> 
> Or just a shirt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Acme RPG seeking undersized Gnomes


----------



## warlock07

GP, she relapsed with her addiction in Jan but did the affair continue until Feb? I thought you said it was a few weeks after the D-day..

Your first post still breaks my heart..


----------



## GutPunch

warlock07 said:


> GP, she relapsed with her addiction in Jan but did the affair continue until Feb? I thought you said it was a few weeks after the D-day..
> 
> Your first post still breaks my heart..


Mine too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Hang tough, Punch. 

Any news? Things any better between you and the old lady?


----------



## GutPunch

Mrs. GP admitted to sneaking and reading my entire
journal. Came clean when I questioned data usage on
her phone. I think she feels bad about it but couldn't
resist.

Garden Gnome's girlfriend blew up her Facebook account.
He has removed all pictures of her off of his. Sounds like 
trouble in paradise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> Mrs. GP admitted to sneaking and reading my entire
> journal. Came clean when I questioned data usage on
> her phone. I think she feels bad about it but couldn't
> resist.
> 
> Garden Gnome's girlfriend blew up her Facebook account.
> He has removed all pictures of her off of his. Sounds like
> trouble in paradise.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup: Told you it was not a good sign if wasn't interested in reading your journal. You'd better give her an eye massage that was a lot of reading. She has a lot of reading to go, RG, BW, Chuck, etc.

The revenge plans aren't secret either now.

Who are her favorite characters in the story? Are you going to have to unfriend anyone?


----------



## Bullwinkle

Wow, GP. I'm just trying to imagine her reading your journal. Flying to Florida to strangle the Garden Gnome. Rubbing one out at three AM to help you sleep. LOL.


----------



## Chuck71

After reading your journal, give her a twenty question pop quiz. 

See if she comprehended the information

As for the Garden Gnome

I would see if I could get his license revoked

If GG is in FL, I am heading there very soon

if he is near panhandle, PM me where he is (smiles)


----------



## Shaggy

GP, since gnome was a dr. Can you go after him professionally and sue him for $$$ for ethics violations?

Bye, how is your wife reacting to the news of the gnomes getting caught?


----------



## LongWalk

GP, maybe now your wife will now recognize your true calling and volunteer to go back to work so that you can devote yourself to writing. I see you as a diverse talent. Perhaps the first published work could a piece of noir fiction: _The Mystery of the Garden Gnome Murder_.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Damnit, I'm starting to not like the acronyms we throw around here. I'm Good Guy (GG) and there's Garden Gnome (GG).. I don't like the association lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Damnit, I'm starting to not like the acronyms we throw around here. I'm Good Guy (GG) and there's Garden Gnome (GG).. I don't like the association lol!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, but you still have all your teeth.


----------



## Ceegee

TheGoodGuy said:


> Damnit, I'm starting to not like the acronyms we throw around here. I'm Good Guy (GG) and there's Garden Gnome (GG).. I don't like the association lol!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perhaps we should use gg instead of GG. Seeing how he's a midget and all.


----------



## LongWalk

GP, is the Garden Gnome's girlfriend also a former addict?


----------



## GutPunch

Shaggy said:


> GP, since gnome was a dr. Can you go after him professionally and sue him for $$$ for ethics violations?
> 
> Bye, how is your wife reacting to the news of the gnomes getting caught?


Probably not. He was not her Dr. A civil suit for alienation of family would probably not be worth my time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> GP, is the Garden Gnome's girlfriend also a former addict?


She is an RN. I would be willing to bet she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> GP, maybe now your wife will now recognize your true calling and volunteer to go back to work so that you can devote yourself to writing. I see you as a diverse talent. Perhaps the first published work could a piece of noir fiction: _The Mystery of the Garden Gnome Murder_.


Lot better writers on TAM than me.

Chuck, BW, you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch

I'm really liking this civil suit idea.

This is the kind of stuff the smart guys tell us to consider when all we want to do is rip the OM's head off and pizz down his throat.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Ceegee said:


> Perhaps we should use gg instead of GG. Seeing how he's a midget and all.


That works for me ceegee
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

GutPunch said:


> Probably not. He was not her Dr. A civil suit for alienation of family would probably not be worth my time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He was in a forum posting as an MD? He may have very much crossed the line.

Still be nice to worry him, Right?


----------



## LongWalk

GP can you used Cheaterville. Disenchanted got 1.8 million hits. As D got closer his now ex sent out a feeler. One she cried on the telephone and said life was hard. A day or two later she asked his daughter to invite him to meet up at restaurant to eat like family again. Too little, too late.

Cheaterville is trashy and it works when used correctly


----------



## GutPunch

Shaggy said:


> He was in a forum posting as an MD? He may have very much crossed the line.
> 
> Still be nice to worry him, Right?


I might do this. Just the threat of legal action would make him uncomfortable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> GP can you used Cheaterville. Disenchanted got 1.8 million hits. As D got closer his now ex sent out a feeler. One she cried on the telephone and said life was hard. A day or two later she asked his daughter to invite him to meet up at restaurant to eat like family again. Too little, too late.
> 
> Cheaterville is trashy and it works when used correctly


I have pondered this one over and over.

I do not want to do this. If gg retaliates and puts Mrs. GP on Cheaterville my kids may suffer some
ridicule. They are just too young to be 
bombarded from school friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

GutPunch said:


> Lot better writers on TAM than me.
> 
> Chuck, BW, you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


GP Having a sit down with the RN....may open many avenues

he could be writing Oxy prescriptions in FL as a 

"legal form of drug trade" ...... thousands of people travel to FL

to doctor shop......an RN has authority to write them as well

I hope you see where I am going with this


----------



## happyman64

What I would do is write a complaint to the States Medical Review Board.

That is your right as well as Mrs GP's.

The GG's 14th step is the reason for the complaint.

Hit him where it will hurt him the most.

The GG deserves a black mark on his record.

HM64


----------



## Ceegee

Nothing better than revenge with a purpose and a point. You'd be doing the public a favor.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch

These are all really great suggestion, I endorse them heartily. 

On the other hand, if you want to just drive to Florida and simply beat the SHYT out of him and toss him in a dumpster behind a CVS, I'm in. 


BW


----------



## GutPunch

What about renting a billboard by the doc in a box
he works at? Put the mug shot of him up. Then say 

Criminal...Drug Addict...13th stepper...
Your family doctor!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> What about renting a billboard by the doc in a box
> he works at? Put the mug shot of him up. Then say
> 
> Criminal...Drug Addict...13th stepper...
> Your family doctor!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As long as you rent the billboard under a corporate name and not personally......


----------



## Shaggy

GutPunch said:


> What about renting a billboard by the doc in a box
> he works at? Put the mug shot of him up. Then say
> 
> Criminal...Drug Addict...13th stepper...
> Your family doctor!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do hope you've already posted that info on the forums he used to rope your wife in.


----------



## Chuck71

When I write about PED use....I can not say

"Barry Bonds was using PED in 2001"

I have no proof, my boss would skin me alive

"In my opinion, Bonds used PED in 2001"

wiggle words

if you write third person you get familiar with them quick

new gals parents have a lot of rental apartments

they were going to be sued when a tenant "fell"

they went corporate, saved their assets .....HM64 is spot on!


----------



## warlock07

GP, your wife needs you now, right? How do you differentiate it from wanting to continue the relationship with you?

Or do you not care about it this point?


----------



## GutPunch

warlock07 said:


> GP, your wife needs you now, right? How do you differentiate it from wanting to continue the relationship with you?
> 
> Or do you not care about it this point?


This is Mrs GP. (One of TAM's most hated I'm sure) You are right I do need my husband, but not for the reasons you may think. For 10 years GP and I had a wonderful marriage and we have two beautiful children. My addiction and deplorable actions almost cost me both. I can not offer any excuses for my behavior other than drug fueled insanity. I am doing everything in my power to be healthy. I love my husband dearly and hate myself for what I've put him through. If I have to spend the rest of my life making it up to him, then I am honored and grateful for the opportunity.

So to answer your question, yes I do need him. Because with him I see the potential to have the happy family I have always wanted but never had.

P.S. He knows I'm responding under his name.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> This is Mrs GP. (One of TAM's most hated I'm sure) You are right I do need my husband, but not for the reasons you may think. For 10 years GP and I had a wonderful marriage and we have two beautiful children. My addiction and deplorable actions almost cost me both. I can not offer any excuses for my behavior other than drug fueled insanity. I am doing everything in my power to be healthy. I love my husband dearly and hate myself for what I've put him through. If I have to spend the rest of my life making it up to him, then I am honored and grateful for the opportunity.
> 
> So to answer your question, yes I do need him. Because with him I see the potential to have the happy family I have always wanted but never had.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


While GP may be one of our favorite posters, I assure you Ms. GP, you are NOT one of TAM's most hated WAW's. For the very reasons you set forth and for the fact that it was clear that you realized what you were losing very early on and finally did what you needed to do. 

Whether you were forced by circumstance or came to it on your own, really makes no difference to me. You have done just about everything right since February and should be commended for it. 

Keep up the good work and keep working on yourself. I hope things work out and you are able to keep straight.

Why is anyone surprised that she read the thread in its entirety? Was there ever a woman that wasn't nosey about their man? I don't think I have ever met one. 

No offense TAM ladies, but just sayin'.


----------



## GutPunch

Mrs GP again..
In my defense, I did try for a long time to resist reading it, but given my experience with an internet sociopath my fear overtook me. Had it been a notebook, I probably would have left it alone.

BTW. How do some of you guys come up with your screen names? From a female perspective, some of them evoke images of pimply faced teenagers masturbating to dungeons and dragons every night. Just sayin... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Brokenshadow

GutPunch said:


> Mrs GP again..
> In my defense, I did try for a long time to resist reading it, but given my experience with an internet sociopath my fear overtook me. Had it been a notebook, I probably would have left it alone.
> 
> BTW. How do some of you guys come up with your screen names? From a female perspective, some of them evoke images of pimply faced teenagers masturbating to dungeons and dragons every night. Just sayin...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exact reason why I had my thread moved to the private section. One day I may share, but would rather not atm. Mrs GP, you have a good man in your husband. My wife is also an addict, and GP was gracious enough to read my thread and offer some wisdom. He deserves your best. 

Haha, there are some interesting names on here. Came up with mine since a shadow is the darkness that's behind every man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

GutPunch said:


> This is Mrs GP. (One of TAM's most hated I'm sure) You are right I do need my husband, but not for the reasons you may think. For 10 years GP and I had a wonderful marriage and we have two beautiful children. My addiction and deplorable actions almost cost me both. I can not offer any excuses for my behavior other than drug fueled insanity. I am doing everything in my power to be healthy. I love my husband dearly and hate myself for what I've put him through. If I have to spend the rest of my life making it up to him, then I am honored and grateful for the opportunity.
> 
> So to answer your question, yes I do need him. Because with him I see the potential to have the happy family I have always wanted but never had.
> 
> P.S. He knows I'm responding under his name.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi, welcome to TAM.
You are not even close to the most hated. Haven't visited the CWI section, did you ? That said, why don't you create your own account ? Shouldn't take much time.. 



> You are right I do need my husband, but not for the reasons you may think.


I think you still need him financially. You may need him for other genuine reasons(family,kids marriage and love). Not meant to offend you or cause you grief, but how does GP know?


----------



## warlock07

GutPunch said:


> Mrs GP again..
> In my defense, I did try for a long time to resist reading it, but given my experience with an internet sociopath my fear overtook me. Had it been a notebook, I probably would have left it alone.
> 
> BTW. How do some of you guys come up with your screen names? From a female perspective, some of them evoke images of pimply faced teenagers masturbating to dungeons and dragons every night. Just sayin...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Picking up a screen name is serious business.


----------



## Awakening2012

Good on you, Mrs. GP! You have an amazing husband and family, and I keep you all in my prayers 

Take care and all best wishes for you and your marriage and family to heal and thrive.

Hugs, A12


----------



## GutPunch

Me again...
I don't think I will get my own screen name. Mr gp and I are on our way back from a beach trip and the traffic is horrendous. Besides, my days of internet chat rooms are over.

To answer your question, unfortunately there is nothing I can do to reassure anyone of my true intentions, and I accept that my actions are the cause. However, I do have a secondary retirement account I could use if gp was not interested in reconciliation. But we both decided that me being a stay at home mom right now was the best decision for our family and my recovery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

I got a funny TAM email this evening from a user by the Name of Mrs GP sating that GP is hung like a horse.

Can you confirm GP this is in fact your wife?

Or

Could this be the garden gnome wishing he was hung like you?

If your wife is on Tam it would be nice if she had her own user Id.

And she is certainly not hated.

I kinda like her sense of humor.......


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck and prayers for you both. You have a difficult time ahead. I hope you both have/develop the character to see you through it.


----------



## GutPunch

She got permanently banned on her first post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> She got permanently banned on her first post.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well she certainly got my vote!

And kudos to you for walking with a big stick.

The horses must go crazy when you walk by.....

😂🐴


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Well she certainly got my vote!
> 
> And kudos to you for walking with a big stick.
> 
> The horses must go crazy when you walk by.....
> 
> 😂🐴


:smthumbup::rofl::rofl::rofl: Ugh good one!


----------



## tom67

I got deleted too :wtf:


----------



## Chuck71

capital punishment and animal cruelty all rolled into one

only in Alerbami

HS graduation requirements:

barefoot

pregnant

carton of Winstons on kitchen table

8>)


----------



## Conrad

And Punch thought his thread had gotten boring.

Hello Mrs. GutPunch.

You two have been through quite a bit.

We've actually been helping him - and also serving as a sounding board when he's down.

Verbal reassurance won't do much for him.

But, if you read "His Needs Her Needs", you'll see what he's after.

Willard Harley is the author.


----------



## Conrad

tom67 said:


> I got deleted too :wtf:


It's about time.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> It's about time.


Yea good morning to you too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pbartender

GutPunch said:


> BTW. How do some of you guys come up with your screen names? From a female perspective, some of them evoke images of pimply faced teenagers masturbating to dungeons and dragons every night. Just sayin...


Oh, Mrs. GP.

As a man who still plays Dungeons & Dragons, let me just say that you need to update your stereotype... Masturbating pimply faced teenagers play World of Warcraft nowadays. The stereotypical D&D player is now middle-aged, morbidly obese, with an unkempt neck-beard and living in his mother's basement and smells of corn chips.

:smthumbup:

My screen name, by the way, is a nickname I earned at work, back when one of my primary responsibilities was operating, maintaining and repairing machines that made antimatter.

...Which, I think, just goes to show how much of a geek I really am. :rofl:


----------



## Ms. GP

Pbartender said:


> Oh, Mrs. GP.
> 
> As a man who still plays Dungeons & Dragons, let me just say that you need to update your stereotype... Masturbating pimply faced teenagers play World of Warcraft nowadays. The stereotypical D&D player is now middle-aged, morbidly obese, with an unkempt neck-beard and living in his mother's basement and smells of corn chips.
> 
> First of all I want to apologize for the offensive post last night. Gp was pplaying a joke on me. We both have a very dark, sophomoric sense of humor. ( probably because we both grew up in alcoholic homes) We both deflect pain with humor. Needlessly to say it has been a regular comedy act around here!!
> Secondly, I apologize for the d&d faux paux. Won't happen again. I love nerds! I went to pharmacy school and married an engineer for goodness sakes!!
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> My screen name, by the way, is a nickname I earned at work, back when one of my primary responsibilities was operating, maintaining and repairing machines that made antimatter.
> 
> ...Which, I think, just goes to show how much of a geek I really am. :rofl:


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Nice interesting post....Ms. GP


----------



## Ms. GP

First of all I want to apologize for the offensive post last night. Gp was playing a joke in me. We bboth deflect pain with humor. Probably because we both grew up in alcoholic homes. Needlessly to say it has been a regular comedy act around here.
I love nerds I went to pharm school and married an engineer for goodness sakes!!

I have read his needs her needs. It is an excellent book. I wish I could have read it a decade ago. I do think women get off kinda light in it. All we have to do is put out, clean the house, hang out with you, and not gain 100 pounds!" Ha ha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

Ms. GP said:


> First of all I want to apologize for the offensive post last night. Gp was playing a joke in me. We bboth deflect pain with humor. Probably because we both grew up in alcoholic homes. Needlessly to say it has been a regular comedy act around here.
> I love nerds I went to pharm school and married an engineer for goodness sakes!!
> 
> I have read his needs her needs. It is an excellent book. I wish I could have read it a decade ago. I do think women get off kinda light in it. All we have to do is put out, clean the house, hang out with you, and not gain 100 pounds!" Ha ha
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't forget the cooking.


----------



## Ms. GP

No. Nothing about cooking. Sorry GP. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

Men however, have to listen to the boring tiny minutia of our day and feign interest. They also have to learn to hug us without popping a boner!! Your in trouble GP. Ha ha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

"Why can't you ever just hold me without it having to turn into sex?"


King of Unused Boners


----------



## Ms. GP

I didn't write the book dude. I just crudely paraphrase it because I know GP will never read it.

You guys also have to buy us lots of jewelry whilst rubbing our feet. 
Now I'm craving corn chips. Thanks a lot pb!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Damn Gut... she's showing us some humor.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Damn Gut... she's showing us some humor.


Yea....She thinks she's funny.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Yea....She thinks she's funny.


In 100 posts, she'll be right up there with Mrs. ReGroup in our collective stone cold hearts.


----------



## Ms. GP

Yeah. I need to brush up on my cursing ability to hang with her. Man. She's good!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Yeah. I need to brush up on my cursing ability to hang with her. Man. She's good!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We've been hanging with Punch for awhile, but if he's got "FAN" tendencies, they're well concealed.

I'm betting he's not a show-stealer either.

BUT... are you into voodoo?

That usually seals the deal.


----------



## LongWalk

Hello Ms GP,

Welcome. 

Thank goodness GP couldn’t bear to nuke his journal. He must have figured that if you could fool the pharmacy, you could beat the TAM privacy restrictions. He was helpless to stop you.

He reported that you read three pages and got bored. As his muse, you were naturally curious to see if he was doing a good job. The fib about Internet sociopaths was good but when you hang out here, you’ll have to raise your game. GP’s standards are pretty high.

With this document in hand you know where to drill for water when the air is hot and dry. If GP ever clicks delete this thread it’ll mean the end of something. Let’s hope he writes on for a few more years at least.

About me: I am a 54-year-old divorced dad, father to two teenaged girls. My father, an angry psychiatrist, emotionally abused me as a child. That has left me with an addictive personality. Emotionally abused and addictive are not words I ever used to identify myself until I started reading TAM intensively. I am a few months into it.

I am curious to know more about your time while separated. I gather that when your EA turned into the PA it was a letdown. gg was not an exciting guy in real life. Is this correct? GP also tracked down an ad you placed on a dating site. It said something about wanting a guy who sounded pretty much like GP. It also mentioned your children, whom you didn’t see much at the time.

You must have had a huge response to your ad, given your good looks. What did you think about the men who wrote you? How many did you correspond with?

It seems that you concentrated on drugs instead of dating. What was going through your mind at the time? I understand this may have been complex. No word limit here.

Also, were you angry or disappointed that GP did not discover your two-year-long addiction until you suffered physical symptoms of withdrawal?

Did you ever feel that if GP had dumped you, you might have ended up on the streets, strung out on heroin? Do pharmacist trade horror stories about colleagues who go down the tubes?

When you were on the phone saying from the detox center and you called home every night and told GP that you loved him, did you? Or did it take time to recover your sense of self, to actually feel love.

GP mentioned that you had suffered some health problems. Hope you are feeling better. Have you quit smoking and taken up running or something to get in shape. Do you and GP ever play one-on-one basketball? How many points do you spot him?


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Yea....She thinks she's funny.


I think she is funny!:smthumbup:


----------



## happyman64

LongWalk said:


> Hello Ms GP,
> 
> Welcome.
> 
> Thank goodness GP couldn’t bear to nuke his journal. He must have figured that if you could fool the pharmacy, you could beat the TAM privacy restrictions. He was helpless to stop you.
> 
> He reported that you read three pages and got bored. As his muse, you were naturally curious to see if he was doing a good job. The fib about Internet sociopaths was good but when you hang out here, you’ll have to raise your game. GP’s standards are pretty high.
> 
> With this document in hand you know where to drill for water when the air is hot and dry. If GP ever clicks delete this thread it’ll mean the end of something. Let’s hope he writes on for a few more years at least.
> 
> About me: I am a 54-year-old divorced dad, father to two teenaged girls. My father, an angry psychiatrist, emotionally abused me as a child. That has left me with an addictive personality. Emotionally abused and addictive are not words I ever used to identify myself until I started reading TAM intensively. I am a few months into it.
> 
> I am curious to know more about your time while separated. I gather that when your EA turned into the PA it was a letdown. gg was not an exciting guy in real life. Is this correct? GP also tracked down an ad you placed on a dating site. It said something about wanting a guy who sounded pretty much like GP. It also mentioned your children, whom you didn’t see much at the time.
> 
> You must have had a huge response to your ad, given your good looks. What did you think about the men who wrote you? How many did you correspond with?
> 
> It seems that you concentrated on drugs instead of dating. What was going through your mind at the time? I understand this may have been complex. No word limit here.
> 
> Also, were you angry or disappointed that GP did not discover your two-year-long addiction until you suffered physical symptoms of withdrawal?
> 
> Did you ever feel that if GP had dumped you, you might have ended up on the streets, strung out on heroin? Do pharmacist trade horror stories about colleagues who go down the tubes?
> 
> When you were on the phone saying from the detox center and you called home every night and told GP that you loved him, did you? Or did it take time to recover your sense of self, to actually feel love.
> 
> GP mentioned that you had suffered some health problems. Hope you are feeling better. Have you quit smoking and taken up running or something to get in shape. Do you and GP ever play one-on-one basketball? How many points do you spot him?


LongWalk

Are you going to ask her for her records from her last gynecological appt. as well? Or maybe ask if you can attend one of her therapy sessions?

Let the woman breathe a little......

She has been kicked off in record time. That makes Bandit45 look like a little kid riding a pony stick around here.



HM


----------



## Ms. GP

Aww man. In hindsight, I can see why you would think that. Honestly this journal has opened up some lines of communication with us and it feels great. I guess I got a little overzealous. Neither one of us is very good at expressing our emotions. Really my intentions were just to make gp laugh. I'll back off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Aww man. In hindsight, I can see why you would think that. Honestly this journal has opened up some lines of communication with us and it feels great. I guess I got a little overzealous. Neither one of us is very good at expressing our emotions. Really my intentions were just to make gp laugh. I'll back off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're still a rookie at this.

I've been banned 3 times.

You're tied with Bullwinkle.


----------



## Ms. GP

Did any of y'all get a lifetime ban in 2 posts? Gp thought it would be funny to post something about his genitalia under my name.

LW. I have spoken with gp and asked his permission to answer your questions. I don't want to offend the tam guys by nuking his thread. Ican pm tthe answers if you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

Just caught up!


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Did any of y'all get a lifetime ban in 2 posts? Gp thought it would be funny to post something about his genitalia under my name.
> 
> LW. I have spoken with gp and asked his permission to answer your questions. I don't want to offend the tam guys by nuking his thread. Ican pm tthe answers if you want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like the beginning of an EA to me

We all know what a stud LongWalk is.


----------



## Ms. GP

Man, I can't win. If I answer the questions, I'm show stealing. If I pm them, then I'm starting an ea. 

On my husband's tam thread too. Man even I'm not that nuts!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Man, I can't win. If I answer the questions, I'm show stealing. If I pm them, then I'm starting an ea.
> 
> On my husband's tam thread too. Man even I'm not that nuts!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We're a SWAT Team.

We're behind every rock.

Don't mess with us


----------



## ReGroup

Damn, I want to tip off my account here on TAM.

It'll cause a server meltdown.


----------



## GutPunch

Ms. GP said:


> Man, I can't win. If I answer the questions, I'm show stealing. If I pm them, then I'm starting an ea.
> 
> On my husband's tam thread too. Man even I'm not that nuts!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You got something to say.....say it here.

You start private messaging all these newly single divorced guys.... your phone may magically lose it's internet capability


----------



## Conrad

ReGroup said:


> Damn, I want to tip off my account here on TAM.
> 
> It'll cause a server meltdown.


I don't think a profanity-filter has been made that could survive such an assault.


----------



## Ceegee

ReGroup said:


> Damn, I want to tip off my account here on TAM.
> 
> It'll cause a server meltdown.


Please do.


----------



## Ms. GP

Alright LW. You asked for it. It is very hard for me to make sense of of my drug fueled insanity, but here goes. Bear in mind, none of this excuses any of my actions but if my story can help someone else I will share it.

I too grew up the child of an angry, abusive, and alcoholic psychiatrist. (what is up with that anyways?) and a mother with boderline personality disorder who would threaten suicide at the drop of a hat. To sum up my childhood in two words it would be sadistic chaos. I have been caring for my 3 younger brothers since I was 8 years old. My final diagnoses in treatment were PTSD and disassociative amnesia. To be quite honest, I don't remember large parts of my childhood but my oldest brother does, and what I do remember is really bad. I actually think the amnesia now is a blessing in disguise, because I was able to keep it together until I was 30. 

I spent my entire childhood living in fear and internalizing all of my parents chaos as my fault. I thought if I could be perfect the chaos and abuse would stop. I felt everything was my fault and that I could not depend on anyone. Besides, who was going to believe a kid over a doctor? I actually ended up running away at 16 and my parents ended up actually losing custody of me at 17. Why not my brother's you ask? I have no idea and the guilt of leaving them still haunts me to this day.

I had no idea of how to be a part of a healthy relationship and felt very undeserving of one anyways. Along comes along GP and I was like one of those crazy foster kids that self destructs when they finally get placed with a happy family. I spent my entire life wearing this mask of perfection because inside I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I did however feel I put on a good show for GP for 10 years, but I never felt I could let him know what was going on inside of me for fear he would reject me. I never even told him how crazy my family was for the same reason.
Fast forward until our daughter was born. I was working 12 hour shifts on my feet, breast feeding a baby all night long, caring for a 3 year old, and trying to do all the domestic chores. All in my pathetic attempt to appear "perfect". One day I just snapped, and picked up what was in my face all day long. I felt I had found my secret weapon to keep everything going, and thus begun my downward spiral.
I tried to stop on my own and went through 5 days of excruciating drug withdrawls before I finally cracked. I was never angry with GP for not knowing. I was terrified he was going to leave me after finding out I was an addict. I desperately needed inpatient treatment but was terrified to self report to the board. I completely underestimated just how sick I was and so did GP. Like me, GP was scared of people finding out I was an addict because we live in a small town. He didn't want me going to meetings, getting a sponsor, going to treatment, etc. 
So I turned to an internet chat room to try to get better on my own. This is where I met gg. I absolutely hated myself and felt I was married to someone who didn't understand me or support my recovery. In a word, I was Insane!! He flodded me with compliments and could speak all of the "recovery talk" really well. In my sick depressed mind, I really thought this man would keep me clean. (Nuts, I know). The irony is I actually ended up relapsing over the guilt and shame of what I was doing to GP and my children. I became addicted to the compliments but eventually I saw him for what he was and dumped him. However, I was left with a void and one night I saw GP's profile on a dating website and became very jealous and started one of my own hoping he would see it. However, it backfired and I was overwhelmed by all of the attention. I was only on the site for 1 week and went on two lame dates. I couldn't keep up the dating and the drugs so I chose drugs. I don't expect this to make sense to anyone else.

The turning point came for me when the man I was on the verge of divorce from actually loved me enough to drive me to treatment and take care of all of my affairs while I was there for the sole reason of seeing the mother of his children get healthy. He even took out a loan to help pay for treatment and brought the children to see me at every possible opportunity. So to answer your question, when I told him I loved him. I meant it with all my heart. I have never felt more loved and accepted in my entire life and I know I don't deserve it.
Yes, I too have an addicitve personality but I am trying to use it now towards my recovery, husband , and children. I don't expect any of this to make sense, because it really doesn't make sense to me but it is the truth.


----------



## GutPunch

Is there more?


----------



## Conrad

For anyone who has read for content on this board, it makes all the sense in the world.


----------



## Ms. GP

Oh yeah. I'm still smoking like a chimney but I do intend to quit when the legal stuff calm down. I have however really gotten in to yoga.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Oh yeah. I'm still smoking like a chimney but I do intend to quit when the legal stuff calm down. I have however really gotten in to yoga.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There's plenty of resources here for that!


----------



## old timer

Ms GP:

Thank you for sharing - it took a lot of courage, imo.

I do not know what the future holds for you and GP, but you do indeed have a good man - of course, you realize this. That is good.

Having cheated myself, forgiveness comes more easily for me for my WW/STBX than for other betrayeds on TAM.

Keep the faith.

.


----------



## LongWalk

My angry psychiatrist father did not drink, but he smoked a cigar and pipe for a few years to be like Freud. Turned the red Olds Vista Cruiser station wagon into a gas chamber. The Vista Cruiser was an expression of sympathy for Communism. My father never felt comfortable in the US. If my father had been an alcoholic, I could have realized it was a disease.

I used to worry that I posted about you in a too sympathetic tone for GP or the rest of the followers, but I guess it is no coincidence — I was just feeling sorry for myself through you because I sensed your confusion. If only we had been able figure out our childhood problems in our 20s. However, when you are young you think you have escaped the demons. Who could have guessed we would seek them out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

Thanks LW. Man that's weird my dad used to smoke a pipe too but he drove a Buick station wagon. Guess he wasn't afraid to buy American. I relate to the gas chamber . Ha ha. 

Not to steal your thunder, but we briefly had a foster sister who told me a few years ago she had been in foster homes and been beaten, starved, and molested but my family was the worst. 

We got her because they wanted to give back to society. Sick!!

Yes. In my 20s I thought I had escaped the demons as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Thanks LW. Man that's weird my dad used to smoke a pipe too but he drove a Buick station wagon. Guess he wasn't afraid to buy American. I relate to the gas chamber . Ha ha.
> 
> Not to steal your thunder, but we briefly had a foster sister who told me a few years ago she had been in foster homes and been beaten, starved, and molested but my family was the worst.
> 
> We got her because they wanted to give back to society. Sick!!
> 
> Yes. In my 20s I thought I had escaped the demons as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After kicking it around here for awhile, we've kind of settled on 33 being a key age.

If you have figured out you need to root that crap out by then, you have a fighting chance.


----------



## GutPunch

Hey...I'm the son of an alcoholic. 

My childhood sucked big time.

I didn't choose to engage in self destructive behavior.

I focused on the good things. 

I'm not a big fan of all this daddy sucks talk.

Excuses.....imo
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Hey...I'm the son of an alcoholic.
> 
> My childhood sucked big time.
> 
> I didn't choose to engage in self destructive behavior.
> 
> I focused on the good things.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of all this daddy sucks talk.
> 
> Excuses.....imo
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You really wanna do this?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> You really wanna do this?


No
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> No
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I remember talking with you on the phone. And, I've traded - literally - hundreds of posts with you.

And, I can tell you for certain that childhood messes with you.

Those deep emotional centers effect all of us in different ways.

I wish we were all savvy enough to observe ourselves and extinguish idiotic behaviors before we act out.

But, it comes to some people long before others.

And, to some, it doesn't come at all.

I admire her for logging on here and taking LongWalk's questions on.

Does it erase what happened?

Of course not.

Do you get any guarantees in life?

I can give you one.

You've got her attention now and are going to get her best effort. You also know there are dozens of guys here who've lost theirs that would trade places with you in a heartbeat.

Get to 50,000 feet and observe that.


----------



## GutPunch

Looking back I was self destructive as a teenager and young adult.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

GP, TAM is good when the participants motivate each other to change their lives by taking action. It can help if people who share a common or related problem realize they are not alone. It is no good if degenerates into a pity party. You, BW and others made me laugh. Eventually, I began for the first time in my life to face my problems in some logical way. If somebody was molested by a parish priest and said nothing about it, can they just get over it? If some guy on TAM discovers that none of the grown children he raised are his and it is too late to start a new family, I think person is not going to recover. Of course if he starts to drink himself to death that is a bad choice.

I think I am in a better place than I was. I am addicted to working out. Half consciously I know it is an addiction. If I quit swimming I will be drawn to nicotine. Now I more aware of why I am I am afraid to miss training. I even became a swim coach for awhile. My daughter, now 18, called me the Saadam Hussein of swimming. I learned to love the kids I coached. I never imagined I had in me. We can turn our problems into something positive. 

Re: Ms GP's post
You must have wondered if your wife was seeing other men after gg. What exactly happened probably only she knows, but I suspected that mostly she was wasting time figuring out how much she could steal, how much she could take. Holding it all together was like an extra part time job. She neglected your children. And yet you did not kick her when she hit bottom. In your disappointment you knew that you could come to your thread and get a boost. Can she come here and get the same? Maybe not on your thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Ms GP,
Quit swimming tomorrow and start running. Show GP that when psychiatrists' children meet it doesn't have a communion of the rationalizers
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Brokenshadow

LongWalk said:


> GP, TAM is good when the participants motivate each other to change their lives by taking action. It can help if people who share a common or related problem realize they are not alone. It is no good if degenerates into a pity party. You, BW and others made me laugh. Eventually, I began for the first time in my life to face my problems in some logical way. If somebody was molested by a parish priest and said nothing about it, can they just get over it? If some guy on TAM discovers that none of the grown children he raised are his and it is too late to start a new family, I think person is not going to recover. Of course if he starts to drink himself to death that is a bad choice.
> 
> I think I am in a better place than I was. I am addicted to working out. Half consciously I know it is an addiction. If I quit swimming I will be drawn to nicotine. Now I more aware of why I am I am afraid to miss training. I even became a swim coach for awhile. My daughter, now 18, called me the Saadam Hussein of swimming. I learned to love the kids I coached. I never imagined I had in me. We can turn our problems into something positive.
> 
> Re: Ms GP's post
> You must have wondered if your wife was seeing other men after gg. What exactly happened probably only she knows, but I suspected that mostly she was wasting time figuring out how much she could steal, how much she could take. Holding it all together was like an extra part time job. She neglected your children. And yet you did not kick her when she hit bottom. In your disappointment you knew that you could come to your thread and get a boost. Can she come here and get the same? Maybe not on your thread.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its interesting, the lengths an addict will go. My wife put her career, hell her freedom at risk, by diverting meds. But she was always keen enough to not short change the patients. If they needed two, she would take three. Counting out her pills, in a parking lot, made her feel safer, since she knew she was ok for x days. It hurts, knowing now that she was going through all that, but never asked for help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

Hi GP and welcome Ms GP. I haven't posted in awhile but have been following your thread still. 

I think there is a double edged sword when it comes to talking about why the affair or the addiction happened. On one hand, it can be rationalization or blame shifting. On the other hand, generally good people don't just go out and engage in those things for sh!ts and giggles. I think it is important to get to the root of the problem in order to fix it. It doesn't make the actions ok or justifiable. 

I personally thought your post Ms GP was very honest and not excuses. My H is a pill addict and I really appreciated reading that as he is not that open with me, so thank you. To me, it was the lack of "buts" in your post. I hate buts 

People deal with childhood trauma different ways. GP, you are one of the strong ones you make life better, which is part of what makes you so awesome. Some people cling to excuses, and some think they have made things better until something triggers them back into their bad place. Ms GP sounds like she is trying to get to where you are IMHO. I know it's hard but patience and compassion can go a long way, as long she is taking responsibility. The worst part for me in all this is was my H's secrecy, lying, keeping things from me, not willing to share his feelings or what is bothering him. Ms GP is trying to tear that down, don't shut her off.


----------



## GutPunch

Some lumber....I haven't had any in good long time.

Please understand that I also am a work in progress. 

While rationally, I see things for what they are. However
emotionally I am far from healed. Emotionally, I am hurt
and angry. I trigger daily. 

I came to TAM because i am not capable of discussing "feelings" with people I know (family, friends,etc.). It's just not in my wiring. I can talk thru a computer though.

I realize now that my wife is merely trying to use TAM to connect more with me. I appreciate that. 

Sometimes reading posts that talk about specific events can trigger negative emotions inside of me. You know cuz they actually happened to me. It's hard to read sometimes.


----------



## Conrad

You can talk on the phone also.

I'm a witness to that.

You needed something to open this up so you can wrestle with it and put it to bed.

I'm actually glad she's here.

It will be a catalyst for good.


----------



## oregonmom

GutPunch said:


> Some lumber....I haven't had any in good long time.
> 
> Please understand that I also am a work in progress.
> 
> While rationally, I see things for what they are. However
> emotionally I am far from healed. Emotionally, I am hurt
> and angry. I trigger daily.
> 
> I came to TAM because i am not capable of discussing "feelings" with people I know (family, friends,etc.). It's just not in my wiring. I can talk thru a computer though.
> 
> I realize now that my wife is merely trying to use TAM to connect more with me. I appreciate that.
> 
> Sometimes reading posts that talk about specific events can trigger negative emotions inside of me. You know cuz they actually happened to me. It's hard to read sometimes.


I totally get it GP. I can objectively listen to others when they talk openly about it, but not with my H. I don't outwardly say or act like what he is saying is a load of excuses and BS, but inside I'm boiling. It's my default reaction to assume he is feeding me a pile of sh!t since that is what he has always done before. It's tough to have compassion when you feel like you have been treated with such little regard, but it does help.

You are doing great. You'll never be perfect, but you have good self awareness and aren't afraid to admit when you're not perfect. That is pretty good in my book. 

I haven't bugged you in awhile about Alanon, and that is all I will say about that


----------



## Ms. GP

Thanks GP. I was just trying to connect with you. Mabye I should have waited until a day we didn't have marriage counseling. 

Understanding my past has been very helpful to me. It has helped me come to a place of understanding and forgiveness for my parents and myself. My parents Are not evil people. They are sick. Just as I was sick. Sick people do terrible things. I know with drugs and alcohol on board I become just like them, but today I have a choice with my behavior. I really hope that one day people can learn from both my parents and my mistakes and find some healing just as I have done. I was not trying to rug sweep or manipulate the tam board( like that is possible).
BTW gp . What are you doing talking to these freaks on the phone for?
Kidding Conrad!!! Thanks for listening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

GP, some time back we all cheered when you threw the D papers on the desk and drove your WW to the detox clinic. Even though many are against R because of their own experiences, no one said made a single peep. Now when you said your love had died we all groaned inside.

If the irreverent good ol boy from Alabama with the beautiful wife, two loved kids and a beagle can't make it, what hope is there for the rest of us.

My father is 83. I don't hate him for things he did to me. He has Alzheimer's and is a helpless old man. I am nice to him. When I gave my mom a break I took care of him. Tried to talk to him, revive his memories. Fed him. Changed his diapers. Bathed him.

I also ignored him because it's a disease that makes for one way conversations. He is going to die this year or next. He just cannot go on that much longer.

I never got the urge to push him down the stairs. In fact, what bothers me is that I feel so little. I am afraid that when he dies I will just IDGAF.

I am also felt the love that I had for my mother begin to die out. She is a potter, a very good one at that. She does so little to teach my daughters. She has her favorite grandson and loves the others less. She actually likes mine more than one of my brother's two kids because those two are very indifferent and disrespectful to my parents.

Anyway my mother consciously and maliciously destroyed a pot my daughter made. When she did that I felt my love for her suddenly vanish like dew under a hot sun. I don't want to not love my parents. It feels horrible.

That is why it bothers people to read these TAM stories in which love just fvcking disappears. We want to love the people we're suppose to love. What is wrong with us. With a WS you can at least have sex and create a new bond.

But are some people just dead inside. Frostine was 13 when she started getting used by men because her mother did not give her love. Later Frostine mastered men (became the mistress of men) and medicated her pain with alcohol. And now after many years of that is she even capable of love?

She wrote to Bullwinkle something like I hate you and hope you die, now come and give me a good screwing (so we can forget just how bad I feel).

ReGroup's wife, crazy as she is, is full of feelings. That's folks still ask him if he want to R. 

I think I feel like Chuck does. He is a smart, witty guy with a lot of self-knowledge but it sounds like he has given up on trying to connect with women. It depresses me.

Another poster whom I respect a great deal – and I know he has helped many people – wrote of a WW


> Hopefully her tubes are tied off and vag!na is sowed shut.


. WTF:scratchhead:

TAM has a lot of raw emotion. 

I wish I had your sense of humor. I feel like a tour guide in Dante's Inferno, trying to collect enough tip money to get a Hieronymus Bosch painting tattooed on my back.

I am going copy and paste this to my own thread. I am lazy.


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> BTW gp . What are you doing talking to these freaks on the phone for?
> Kidding Conrad!!! Thanks for listening.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I captured part of the call with GutPunch on my phone:

Officer and a Gentleman DVD I Got Nowhere Else to Go - MovieWeb.com


----------



## LongWalk

GP, some time back we all cheered when you threw the D papers on the desk and drove your WW to the detox clinic. Even though many are against R because their own experiences, no one said made a single peep. Now when you said your love had died we all groaned inside.

If the irreverent good ol boy from Alabama with the beautiful wife, two loved kids and a beagle can't make it, what hope is there for the rest of us.

My father is 83. I don't hate him for things he did to me. He has Alzheimer's and is a helpless old man. I am nice to him. When I gave my mom a break I took care of him. Tried to talk to him, revive his memories. Fed him. Changed his diapers. Bathed him.

I also ignored him because it's a disease that makes for one way conversations. He is going to die this year or next. He just cannot go on that much longer.

I never got the urge to push him down the stairs. In fact, what bothers me is that I feel so little. I am afraid that when he dies I will just IDGAF.

I am also felt the love that I had for my mother begin to die out. She is a potter, a very good one at that. She does so little to teach my daughters. She has her favorite grandson and loves the others less. She actually likes mine more than one of my brother's two kids because those two are very indifferent and disrespectful to my parents.

Anyway my mother consciously and maliciously destroyed a pot my daughter made. When she did that I felt my love for her suddenly vanish like dew under a hot sun.

I don't want to not love my parents. It feels horrible. That is why it bothers people to read these TAM stories were love just fvcking disappears. We want to love the people we're suppose to love. What is wrong with us. With a WS you can at least have sex and create a new bond.

But are some people just dead inside. Frostine was 13 when she started getting used by men because her mother did not give her love. Later Frostine mastered men (became the mistress of men) and medicated her pain with alcohol. And now after many years of that is she even capable of love?

She wrote to Bullwinkle something like I hate you and hope you die, now come and give me a good screwing (so we can forget just how bad I feel).

ReGroup's wife, crazy as she is, is full of feelings. That's why folks still ask him if he want to R. 

I think I feel like Chuck does. He is a smart, witty guy with a lot of self-knowledge but it sounds like he has given up on trying to connect with women. It depresses me.

Another poster whom I respect a great deal – and I know he has helped many people – wrote of a WW


> Hopefully her tubes are tied off and vag!na is sowed shut.


. WTF:scratchhead:

TAM has a lot of raw emotion. 

I wish I had your sense of humor. I feel like a tour guide in Dante's Inferno, trying to collect enough tip money to get a Hieronymus Bosch painting tattooed on my back.

I am going copy and paste this to my own thread. I am lazy.


----------



## Conrad

Walk,

I think you pasted it to this thread.

It was just as good the second time.


----------



## Ms. GP

thanks LW. I have wondered what my emotions will be when my parents die. Probably pity. I'm not sure.
BTW. GP just asked what irreverent meant. I told him it's a dum drum who needs to go back to ninth grade!!
Couldn't resist!!
He might be a little mad at you. Sorry. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Northern Monkey

I've just caught up with here with a massive grin on my face. 

From the outside it's great to see you here being open an honest Ms.GP.

I too have large swathes of childhood blocked out. I really don't need to recall details. Our childhoods dont excuse anything we do as adults. But they sure do explain and give reason to much we do. It's up to us as "want to be healthy" adults to then tackle things.

Demons can be beaten but not by running imo. You have to turn around and see if you can kick them in nuts hard enough to score a field goal to get ahead. You seem to have had a similar realisation on your journey.

Finally I have to say, when I saw Ms.GP posting I had a tickle of deja vue... I'm glad it hasn't been born out.


----------



## LongWalk

re: foster child
Rdmu's thread

Ms GP,

If you want to know more about your husband you will flit like a bee to the threads that he has tapped into. If you read his comment, then you will wonder how much of this story did he read and why did he post. He empathized enough to post. Do you find those people similarly worthy of attention?

ReGroup's is the best place to go for an education.

Above there is a link to Rdmu. I have offered by two bits to him, mentioning GP's success in building support through friendship.


----------



## Chuck71

I think I feel like Chuck does. He is a smart, witty guy with a lot of self-knowledge but it sounds like he has given up on trying to connect with women. It depresses me.

LongWalk........ what was that about? 

Been dating urology gal since January


----------



## Ms. GP

LW. It won't let me access the link. I am curious to read it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> I think I feel like Chuck does. He is a smart, witty guy with a lot of self-knowledge but it sounds like he has given up on trying to connect with women. It depresses me.
> 
> LongWalk........ what was that about?
> 
> Been dating urology gal since January


LongWalk just needs wider windows in his place.


----------



## Conrad

Northern Monkey said:


> I've just caught up with here with a massive grin on my face.
> 
> From the outside it's great to see you here being open an honest Ms.GP.
> 
> I too have large swathes of childhood blocked out. I really don't need to recall details. Our childhoods dont excuse anything we do as adults. But they sure do explain and give reason to much we do. It's up to us as "want to be healthy" adults to then tackle things.
> 
> Demons can be beaten but not by running imo. You have to turn around and see if you can kick them in nuts hard enough to score a field goal to get ahead. You seem to have had a similar realisation on your journey.
> 
> Finally I have to say, when I saw Ms.GP posting I had a tickle of deja vue... I'm glad it hasn't been born out.


Ms GP actually does sound "happiernow"


----------



## Chuck71

Conrad said:


> LongWalk just needs wider windows in his place.


:rofl:

:rofl:


----------



## Shaggy

I'm struck by how mrs. Writes about her drug addiction, while gp writes about your cheating.

I point this out because if you want to help go you need to put that addictive personality to work helping him. 

I'd suggest for starters helping him destroy gg.


----------



## ReGroup

Chuck71 said:


> Been dating urology gal since January


Can't keep a great man down.


----------



## ReGroup

Shaggy said:


> I'd suggest for starters helping him destroy gg.


GG has his own problems right now. 

Though, if more can be done... I say they do it.


----------



## Ms. GP

The point I was trying to make by all the addiction talk is the fact that with drugs and alcohol on board, I make extremely poor decisions. I carry a lot of guilt and shame for those decisions and in no way wish to minimize their impact. But the fact is that for 10 years GP and I had an extremely happy marriage. ( which is probably why the impact of my actions is so hurtful to him). But for me(and hopefully others) there is hope there. Because without drugs and alcohol involved I make really good decisions. I did convince GP to marry me after all!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

This whole thread is an excellent reminder of just how important my sobriety is to me. I truly believe had I kept going, I would have been dead in a short period of time or have made myself so miserable that I would have wished every day for death.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

I again would like to mention, I once used the power of opiates

to write papers in college. Should I be on meds, maybe but

the ones available for me, I do not care for

the rush from the pills was a killer high

once I tried to replicate the desired emotion the next night

far far different results

I learned then, never take them less than a week apart

Last time I used, was knowing in advance my back was going to be out

after moving furniture from the rooms that were flooded 

would have went to Dr any way....and gotten same thing

I dodged the addiction but can clearly see how it is attractive

The day after I used them, I was drained emotionally, lifeless

the high vs. the drop, even out....best to avoid


----------



## LongWalk

Chuck71 said:


> I think I feel like Chuck does. He is a smart, witty guy with a lot of self-knowledge but it sounds like he has given up on trying to connect with women. It depresses me.
> 
> LongWalk........ what was that about?
> 
> Been dating urology gal since January


Good for you. Maybe there's hope for me?


----------



## LongWalk

Ms. GP said:


> LW. It won't let me access the link. I am curious to read it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You must post 30 times to earn your security pass. You can also lean over GP's shoulder and read it together.


----------



## LongWalk

Chuck71 said:


> I again would like to mention, I once used the power of opiates
> 
> to write papers in college. Should I be on meds, maybe but
> 
> the ones available for me, I do not care for
> 
> the rush from the pills was a killer high
> 
> once I tried to replicate the desired emotion the next night
> 
> far far different results
> 
> I learned then, never take them less than a week apart
> 
> Last time I used, was knowing in advance my back was going to be out
> 
> after moving furniture from the rooms that were flooded
> 
> would have went to Dr any way....and gotten same thing
> 
> I dodged the addiction but can clearly see how it is attractive
> 
> The day after I used them, I was drained emotionally, lifeless
> 
> the high vs. the drop, even out....best to avoid


I have friend, a writer, who dabbled in heroin in LA. His father used beat him. I am going to ask him if he thinks that influenced his attraction to drugs.

He paid a high price. Hepatitis. He has survived two liver transplants. The second was gift from his son. Surviving a that procedure is an ordeal. You cannot eat for a very long time after the operation and thought of food is sickening. But at certain point you must begin to eat or die.

They had a good doctor and bad doctor. One tells you, oh shı†, you worthless SOB, still not eating after all the work we did. You're going to die. And another that is understanding. For him an assistant nurse was the key. She formed the emotional bond that motivated him to eat again.

But now he is paying a price. His son is very successful, married a famous singer has a good job, made him a grandfather. But his daughter, 25, is doing poorly in university, she lacks direction and is constantly changing boyfriends. Currently she wants to drop out of school for a while and go to poor developing country, paying to for the privilege of volunteering to do goodism.

He said that his two liver transplantations had of course affected her.

After my first year of college I realized I'd better not experiment further with drugs.


----------



## LongWalk

Ms. GP said:


> This whole thread is an excellent reminder of just how important my sobriety is to me. I truly believe had I kept going, I would have been dead in a short period of time or have made myself so miserable that I would have wished every day for death.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, you answered one of my earlier questions.

How did you measure the doses to feel good and yet function at work? It must require the training of a pharmacologist.


----------



## Ms. GP

Dude. I was insane!! I would mix opiates with stimulants to function at work, and use benzos and alcohol to come down at night. Nuts!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Ms. GP said:


> I became addicted to the compliments but eventually I saw him for what he was and dumped him. However, I was left with a void and one night I saw GP's profile on a dating website and became very jealous and started one of my own hoping he would see it. However, it backfired and I was overwhelmed by all of the attention. I was only on the site for 1 week and went on two lame dates. I couldn't keep up the dating and the drugs so I chose drugs. I don't expect this to make sense to anyone else.
> 
> The turning point came for me when the man I was on the verge of divorce from actually loved me enough to drive me to treatment and take care of all of my affairs while I was there for the sole reason of seeing the mother of his children get healthy. He even took out a loan to help pay for treatment and brought the children to see me at every possible opportunity. So to answer your question, when I told him I loved him. I meant it with all my heart. I have never felt more loved and accepted in my entire life and I know I don't deserve it.
> Yes, I too have an addicitve personality but I am trying to use it now towards my recovery, husband , and children. I don't expect any of this to make sense, because it really doesn't make sense to me but it is the truth.


Ok, some hard stuff down here.

Does GP exactly know what happened the day you left him (his first post) and the day you left OM ? Not "It did not work out and I saw his true nature". What did you tell yourself when you were leaving your family ?


I read the first few pages once you started posting. I am not sure how much GP would agree with the stuff you posted. Maybe it is because of the perspective but I get a feeling you did a lot of rationalization in hindsight these few months in recovery.

Drug addicts relapse a lot. How can he trust you again when you blame everything on drugs ? How about taking more accountability that you do now ?

Maybe that feeling you have for him after taking care of you since Feb is extreme gratitude. how do you know it is love ?

Ok,I think this is enough to scare her off for now..


----------



## Conrad

warlock07 said:


> Ok, some hard stuff down here.
> 
> Does GP exactly know what happened the day you left him (his first post) and the day you left OM ? Not "It did not work out and I saw his true nature". What did you tell yourself when you were leaving your family ?
> 
> 
> I read the first few pages once you started posting. I am not sure how much GP would agree with the stuff you posted. Maybe it is because of the perspective but I get a feeling you did a lot of rationalization in hindsight these few months in recovery.
> 
> Drug addicts relapse a lot. How can he trust you again when you blame everything on drugs ? How about taking more accountability that you do now ?
> 
> Maybe that feeling you have for him after taking care of you since Feb is extreme gratitude. how do you know it is love ?
> 
> Ok,I think this is enough to scare her off for now..


I'm betting on her.

She's got game.


----------



## LongWalk

Dday, whose wife had an affair with opiate addict, is in R. He started a URL="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/74745-why-how-5.html"]thread[/URL] to explore the questions: "Why did she do this and how could she do this?"

He was on methadone while the affair was going on.

Could be good place to look for answers about addictive personalities and the attraction that affairs exert on them.

One thing that comes through in this thread, Broken Shadow and Dday's is this sense of deadened feelings. The betrayed spouse reaches out and says "I love you, hello, I said I love you, are you there?"

And the WW spouse answers back faintly in the affirmative but without total conviction. Not all of the pistons are firing.

I feel that way myself. When I was a kid and my father abused me emotionally, I just clicked switch inside, telling myself to not feel, I just needed to survive, for one hour or three. But once you click that switch it is hard click your feelings back on.

Later in life, drugs, alcohol, porn, cheating, working out, computer games, gambling, etc. all provide an on switch. That switch you control yourself. You don't have to relate to your spouse or anyone else you just indulge in the addiction and escape.

At some level there is a lack of trust. You only trust yourself, although you know others care about you.

re: TAM user names
Ms GP may I kindly suggest that you choose a new name that better reflects your individuality and responsibility. Being Ms GP is a little bit of a hiding place. People will hesitate to to speak honestly if they feel they are offending GP's wife.

Also, until I came to TAM I never admitted that I have an addictive personality. Dealing with this is something entirely new in my life.

I am sure that one of the reasons my marriage collapsed was because our sex life disappeared. There were a number of reasons for it. I am the person who is responsible for them. I have never owned up. We've been divorced a while now, but maybe I should apologize.

One thing that must have turned her off was my tobacco habit. I went into a war zone to work. My partner used this powdered tobacco and I thought: "What the there are people with guns all over the place, might as well try this smokeless nicotine. Bang. Super rush. Much more powerful than cigarettes. Went home and couldn't stop.

Shı† was disgusting. Smelled bad. Made my breath stink, loosened my teeth. Why did I give my then wife and extra reason to kill our sex life. Stupid. :scratchhead: My own fault. Did I have to indulge that addiction? No, I substituted nicotine with endogenous morphine (endorphins).

It sucks taking responsibility. I want to blame everything on my fvcked childhood and teens. But GP doesn't allow pity parties. GP, sometimes you're not such a funny guy. 

For that matter, GP did you manage to kick the diet coke?


----------



## LongWalk

Conrad said:


> I'm betting on her.
> 
> She's got game.


It's not going to be easy.


----------



## Ceegee

LW, no one will ever call your posts short and to the point but I sure do enjoy them.


----------



## ReGroup

Ceegee said:


> LW, no one will ever call your posts short and to the point but I sure do enjoy them.


Agreed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## torn2012

I'm interested to know how Mrs GP feels when she reads the first post in this thread. I don't know the guy but that OP breaks my damn heart.

He clearly doesn't want a pity party but it's obvious that this still hurts like hell.

I've noticed the sport, GG bashing, dog kicking and general borderline inappropriate commentry has died down since the missus entered the thread. I'm concerned that the journal is no longer an authentic account of current thoughts. I hope this isn't detrimental to GP's progress.


----------



## Ms. GP

Alright guys. I just returned from a 10 hour day trip trapped in a car with four children ages 4-6. I'm exhausted!! I ain't skeered to answer your questions as I am an open book these days. I plan on doing service work in the future when my sponsor thinks I'm ready by speaking to various women's recovery groups and I consider your questions good practice but right now I'm so tired I can barely see straight.
As for the content of GP's journal, I can assure you GP has never used any filter around me. I grew up with three brothers and have heard more than my fair share. Heck your talking to the gal who got a lifetime ban in 2 posts!!

I like my screen name. Seeing as I'm here to connect with my husband and mabye give him a chuckle or two, I think I'll keep it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

torn2012 said:


> I'm interested to know how Mrs GP feels when she reads the first post in this thread. I don't know the guy but that OP breaks my damn heart.
> 
> He clearly doesn't want a pity party but it's obvious that this still hurts like hell.
> 
> I've noticed the sport, GG bashing, dog kicking and general borderline inappropriate commentry has died down since the missus entered the thread. I'm concerned that the journal is no longer an authentic account of current thoughts. I hope this isn't detrimental to GP's progress.


If I could I'd perform some unauthorized dental work on the Garden Gnome.

What a putz.


----------



## old timer

And I'll kick the dog...
She's a little b!tch anyway. 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Ceegee said:


> LW, no one will ever call your posts short and to the point but I sure do enjoy them.


Thanks.
Just wait till I start telling the truth


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> I have friend, a writer, who dabbled in heroin in LA. His father used beat him. I am going to ask him if he thinks that influenced his attraction to drugs.
> 
> He paid a high price. Hepatitis. He has survived two liver transplants. The second was gift from his son. Surviving a that procedure is an ordeal. You cannot eat for a very long time after the operation and thought of food is sickening. But at certain point you must begin to eat or die.
> 
> They had a good doctor and bad doctor. One tells you, oh shı†, you worthless SOB, still not eating after all the work we did. You're going to die. And another that is understanding. For him an assistant nurse was the key. She formed the emotional bond that motivated him to eat again.
> 
> But now he is paying a price. His son is very successful, married a famous singer has a good job, made him a grandfather. But his daughter, 25, is doing poorly in university, she lacks direction and is constantly changing boyfriends. Currently she wants to drop out of school for a while and go to poor developing country, paying to for the privilege of volunteering to do goodism.
> 
> He said that his two liver transplantations had of course affected her.
> 
> After my first year of college I realized I'd better not experiment further with drugs.


Most prolific writers have a 'hidden he!!'

King, TN Williams, Hemmingway to name a few


----------



## LongWalk

Chuck71 said:


> Most prolific writers have a 'hidden he!!'
> 
> King, TN Williams, Hemmingway to name a few


Wonder how many people on TAM are writers in real life... guess we all are. A lot of tough critics here, too. God dämn fact checkers all over the place.


----------



## Chuck71

to have a critic one has to be an eloquent writer


----------



## Ms. GP

Ok Warlock. You asked for it....

First of all, I want to say Dday was the absolute rock bottom moment of my life. When I was sitting in jail, one of the officer's was trying to encourage me and kept saying let this be your rock bottom moment so you can rebuild and move on from here. I told him my rock bottom moment is 100 times worse than this. I could go to prison for the rest of my life and dday would still be my rock bottom moment. That being said yes GP does know what happened that day I left. At that moment in time, I was floundering so hard. I was trying to change everything externally about myself in an insane attempt to stay clean. When what really needed to change was an internal change. To be honest, in that moment I didn't have any internal dialogue whatsoever. I reacted completely on impulse and pushed everything out of my mind. When I finally did allow myself to think about what I had done, I was so overcome with guilt and shame of what I had done to GP and my children I relapsed over it. 

I don't feel I am trying to rationalize anything. I accept full responsibility for my actions, but for me I am trying to understand what lead to these awful behaviors so I'm not doomed to repeat them. It's like Mya Angelelou said, " when you know better, you do better."

As far as trust goes, I don't expect GP to trust me right now ( or anyone else for that matter) when it comes to drugs or other men. Since I have been home, I have been a complete open book. GP can check up on me whenever he wants and has and I don't care.
I have no male contact with any males whatsoever besides my brothers. I have switched from NA to AA because in my area they seem to have a stronger healthier group in my opinion. The men and women do not socialize whatsoever and do not even sit together during the meetings. In treatment, there were very strict rules about fraternization that people broke all the time and were written up. I never broke one of those rules and had no desire to do so. I know rebuilding trust with GP is a slow process, but I am up to the task.
As far as drugs go, ( here comes the recovery talk),I know I have a disease and that I am only given a daily reprieve contingent on my continuing spiritual progress. I truly beleive this is a one day at a time program. I know what I had to do to keep myself clean and sober yesterday and the day before, and I plan on doing the same things tomorrow and the next day and the day after that. I have a lot of accountablity measures in place as far as drugs go and am very grateful for them. I must submit to random drug screening for the next 5 years. I must also attend IC and MC and attend mandatory AA meetings for the next 5 years. I have a wonderful sponsor that I call daily and we are actively working the steps together. I plan to include service work in the future as well.

I know that what I feel for GP is love because love is a commitment not a feeling and I am 100% committed to GP and my family, and in time I think my actions will prove that. GP's actions already have.


----------



## GutPunch

warlock07 said:


> Ok, some hard stuff down here.
> 
> Does GP exactly know what happened the day you left gg ? Not "It did not work out and I saw his true nature"



Hmmmm........


----------



## Chuck71

Things That Make You Go Hmmmm.... - YouTube


----------



## Ms. GP

Sorry guys. I have been extremely busy this morning and, I seem to have forgot one. Not on purpose I promise.

This one is a little trickier. First of all, let me explain that I was on the mother of all benders when this conversation took place and the detail are a little fuzzy. However, the conversation took place via email and GP is welcome to read it whenever he wants.

I think I finally asked him what we were doing. Were we in a relationship and his reply was that he had been so busy that he hadn't had time to think about it. I had a moment of clarity and immediately knew the answer was no and that I was being used. I told him that what he was doing was absolutely cruel and called him a coward and never spoke to him again. 

I know this is very hurtful to GP and makes him feel like he is plan B. But GP had pulled a sucessful 180 on me, and I knew in my addicted state that I was undeserving of him. My next insane move was to set up a match.com profile out of jealousy over GP's profile and to fill a sick need for attention. It wasn't until I went to treatment and began to come out of my drug induced fog that I realized that I had loved GP the entire time and desperately wanted to get better and attempt reconciliation with GP.

This may come as a shock to you guys but gg was not the first unhealthy relationship I have had with a man in my life ( I know. Insert collective eye roll here) I just realized as I typed this that gg's tactic was very similar to the tactic employed by the abusive boyfriend I had in high school who was 6 years older than me. Not making excuses, but the similarities are so eerily similar that it literally sent a shiver down my spine. How I ended up with GP I will never know, but I have completely accepted the fact that I will probably never be able to have a friendship with a man for the rest of my life and am completely ok with it. I hope that gives more clarity and doesn't appear like I'm vying for the victim seat, but it is the truth to the best of my ability.


----------



## Chuck71

Agreed MsGP we seek only what we are familiar with


----------



## warlock07

I hope I am not coming off as trying to attack you. Please feel free to answer when you can.



> I think I finally asked him what we were doing. Were we in a relationship and his reply was that he had been so busy that he hadn't had time to think about it. I had a moment of clarity and immediately knew the answer was no and that I was being used. I told him that what he was doing was absolutely cruel and called him a coward and never spoke to him again.


When did you have this discussion ? Did you not discuss anything before you left your family ? 

One more thing. Have you read anything that helps you understand GP's current emotional situation ? There are couple of threads around here that can help you understand his mental state better. Not trying to make GP a victim or anything.


----------



## Ms. GP

I think the conversation happened about 2 1/2 weeks before I went to treatment. The match thing lasted about a week after that then I went to treatment. To the best of my recollection, there was no future talk with gg ever. Everything was very impulsive.
I don't see you as trying to attack me, I see you as looking out for a friend.

I have read a few other threads but with caring for 2 small children 24/7 I only have so much time. I don't see GP as a victim and I don't think any one else does. He's hurt and I'm trying desperately to do everything in my power to repair the damage I have done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> I think the conversation happened about 2 1/2 weeks before I went to treatment. The match thing lasted about a week after that then I went to treatment. To the best of my recollection, there was no future talk with gg ever. Everything was very impulsive.
> I don't see you as trying to attack me, I see you as looking out for a friend.
> 
> I have read a few other threads but with caring for 2 small children 24/7 I only have so much time. I don't see GP as a victim and I don't think any one else does. He's hurt and I'm trying desperately to do everything in my power to repair the damage I have done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was on the phone with him after he discovered your match.com profile.

To say the least, he was shaken.

Worst case scenario... so, now the Garden Gnome is out of her life and she's interviewing for posOM#2?

If you read many of the threads here, you'll know that the entrance of posOM#2 is basically the end of all hope.


----------



## warlock07

Wait, the affair ended in Feb ?


----------



## GutPunch

...and that my friend is when GP began pushing
the divorce thru. 

Sounds like Mrs. GP thought the gnome was her KISA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

warlock07 said:


> Wait, the affair ended in Feb ?


Yep...they were 600 miles apart however.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> ...and that my friend is when GP began pushing
> the divorce thru.
> 
> Sounds like Mrs. GP thought the gnome was her KISA.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I remember talking about the meaning of posOM#2 with you on the phone.


----------



## warlock07

GP, do you think she can deal with the affair now ? Ms.GP mentioned that the guilt of the affair was why she got worse.


----------



## GutPunch

warlock07 said:


> GP, do you think she can deal with the affair now ? Ms.GP mentioned that the guilt of the affair was why she got worse.


I think Mrs. GP has a lot to reconcile with. Herself for starters. As long as she continues to stay clean, protect her family, and enjoy what life offers, she will be fine. 

She must let go of the guilt to accept me back.

I must let go of the hurt and anger to accept her back.

Looks like I get the short end of the stick or do I?


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> I think Mrs. GP has a lot to reconcile with. Herself for starters. As long as she continues to stay clean, protect her family, and enjoy what life offers, she will be fine.
> 
> She must let go of the guilt to accept me back.
> 
> I must let go of the hurt and anger to accept her back.
> 
> Looks like I get the short end of the stick or do I?


Just like her but for different reasons you have to take it one day at a time. She has to forgive herself and in time you have to forgive her. I wish both of you the best.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I think Mrs. GP has a lot to reconcile with. Herself for starters. As long as she continues to stay clean, protect her family, and enjoy what life offers, she will be fine.
> 
> She must let go of the guilt to accept me back.
> 
> I must let go of the hurt and anger to accept her back.
> 
> Looks like I get the short end of the stick or do I?


How do you figure?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> How do you figure?


What? The short end of the stick?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> What? The short end of the stick?


Would you really rather be her in this scenario?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Would you really rather be her in this scenario?


Point taken.


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> I think Mrs. GP has a lot to reconcile with. Herself for starters. As long as she continues to stay clean, protect her family, and enjoy what life offers, she will be fine.
> 
> She must let go of the guilt to accept me back.
> 
> I must let go of the hurt and anger to accept her back.
> 
> Looks like I get the short end of the stick or do I?


GP,

This is sums it up pretty well.
The search for POSOM2 was just momentum carrying her the wrong direction. Ms GP had already destroyed her life and wanted to see if another bet on a miracle savior might hit the jackpot but she probably already had a negative feeling about men.

She knew what a good man was because she measured others against you and they came up short. There were good ones but they were taken or they would not be interested in her.

GP, your wife is not going to look for other men now. She has spent enough wretched hours incarcerated and in the company of people in trouble that she will certainly be wary of drugs.

Smoking, though, is a good example of how weak the addictive personality is under certain situations. The other members of the group went out for a cig. They offered the smoking gang camaraderie and off Ms GP went. The emotional reward of that company measured against the displeasure of GP kissing cigarette breath – this trade off was a bad one.

So the addicts mistakes don't have to be big. They can be small and harmful.

It's easy to laugh at addictions. How many hours have I wasted on Internet chess? And now TAM? Neither chess nor TAM are bad. They are good but not when consumed obsessively.


----------



## torn2012

Just want to make a quick suggestion for you Mrs GP. Take it or leave it.

We all know that drug use and your poor decisions are linked. There's no need for the constant reference to being "on the mother of all benders" and in a drug induced haze. It is an important factor in all that has happened but it comes across as (just my opinion) a blame shifting mechanism (perhaps on a subconscious level) and an easy cop out.

If I was the great man, aka your husband, I'd much rather see you write statements like the following

I made poor decisions. 

I let my husband down.

I let my children down.

No qualifications. Just accountability.

As someone mentioned earlier, you write mostly about the drug problem. GP seems focused on the Affair.

Again, just a suggestion.


----------



## Ms. GP

Thanks for the feedback torn. I will keep this in mind. The point I was trying to make is that the details are fuzzy to me not that I am trying to not accept responsibility for my actions. I apologize for seeming insincere. I will definitely keep this in mind .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Brokenshadow

Ms. GP said:


> Thanks for the feedback torn. I will keep this in mind. The point I was trying to make is that the details are fuzzy to me not that I am trying to not accept responsibility for my actions. I apologize for seeming insincere. I will definitely keep this in mind .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Forgive me, both my friend GP and Mrs gp, but have you acknowledged his support of you during your recovery? To have an addict for a spouse is so damn hard. This wasn't just your problem, it was his to. A problem, a burden, he never asked to carry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Arendt

Wow just caught up on this thread and now the Ms. GP is posting. Sounds like you are on the right track staying clean. It is an internal thing; your mindset and outlook. Hopefully you are taking the steps seriously. Not drinking and drugging is only a small fraction of the healing (Only 1 step mentions drugs or alcohol after all).

My wife and I are in counseling again and have been separated 5 months now. It is extremely hard to connect with each other again on any meaningful level. Seeing the two of you give it a try is a real sign of hope.


----------



## Arendt

Oh and I think you are right about NA and AA. NA in my area is kind of wacky. In AA they are pretty strict about men sponsoring men and women sponsoring women. That really is the way it should be.


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Thanks for the feedback torn. I will keep this in mind. The point I was trying to make is that the details are fuzzy to me not that I am trying to not accept responsibility for my actions. I apologize for seeming insincere. I will definitely keep this in mind .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You keep being this gracious, I'm going to step in and defend you.


----------



## torn2012

For what it's worth I don't think you are being insincere.

We just want to see GP heal as much as is possible. This small change might help achieve that.


----------



## Ms. GP

Yes. Broken shadow. I am eternally grateful for his support. The thought of it actually brings tears to my eyes sometimes. His parents were also equally supportive and forgiving. My own parents didn't call me one time for the entire time I was in treatment.. GP's parents participated in family counseling and wrote a letter with the closing, " please come home. We just want our happy family back" (I sobbed when I read that.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Yes. Broken shadow. I am eternally grateful for his support. The thought of it actually brings tears to my eyes sometimes. His parents were also equally supportive and forgiving. My own parents didn't call me one time for the entire time I was in treatment.. GP's parents participated in family counseling and wrote a letter with the closing, " please come home. We just want our happy family back" (I sobbed when I read that.)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When Punch and I spoke, he mentioned the artwork the kids were doing for you.

That brought tears to my eyes.


----------



## Ms. GP

My 2 favorites were a card from our son that said, "Daer Mom. I love you and I miss you ." (In his little first grade handwriting) and a picture of a happy face written by our daughter with a caption written below it by GP, "WTF is this? A gumdrop taking a crap?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I love GPs dark humor, even in the middle of it all.. Looks like you appreciate it too Ms. GP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Yes, GG, that was a Punch classic.


----------



## Ms. GP

Yeah. I love it too. My favorite card from GP said, "Just remember, some of the most beautiful flowers grow out of the biggest piles of crap." Ha ha. Ain't that the truth!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

I agree Arendt. Yes I take the steps very seriously. I worked through step 5 in treatment but had to start over with my new sponsor when I got out. (The reason I changed sponsors was because she hasn't worked all the steps after 3 years. Long story) My sponsor now wants me to work all 12 in about 7 or 8 months and I think that is good for me. I feel the steps are really just a step by step process to becominga bbetter person. My sponsor says they are designed to bring you closer to a higher power. Yes, I agree drugs and alcohol are just a symptom of many underlying problems. I have a ton of character defects that need to be addressed as well as clearly demonstrated in this thread! Oh well. One day at a time. Ha ha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Just I began to question the amount of time I've been spending on TAM, I have made some important realizations. Somebody wrote something that is true of me and probably Ms GP. Paraphrase:

_*A person who is abused by their closest in childhood will not know how to cope with healthy love later in life.*_

This explains to me why I longed to write an letter to the teacher in high school who gave me positive emotional support. I felt ashamed to write him. Why? It's very illogical. Around 12 years ago I once wrote his wife an email. She was very happy to hear from me and said that her husband had worried that I'd never grow up.

But you see I never did grow up, or to be more precise, I never began to feel good inside. I still don't know what do when people like me or say you did a great job. I feel confused. Failure and being yelled and told that I was going to "kill my father and marry mother" and other such nonsense that my psychiatrist dad spewed out in rage seems normal.

Of course, addiction is a solution to these feeling.

I think Ms GP didn't feel comfortable having a great life with a great guy, so she destroyed to get back to normal, i.e., being abused and criticised.

So, GP is right on when he says Ms GP must get rid of the guilt and accept herself so that GP doesn't have to bear the burden fixing her.

I have to do things well and accept that I deserve to succeed.


----------



## Chuck71

Consider yourself lucky, my senior English teacher thought

he would read about me in the paper, jail dockets to be exact

we ran into each other twenty years later LOL

my how time moves on to some

but stands still to others


----------



## Bullwinkle

LongWalk, another great post.

I'm with you, Chucky, my teachers voted me, "Most Likely to Be Incarcerated".


----------



## Ms. GP

Hey BW. I have a theme song for you to for when Frostine moves back in. It's called, "Kiss with a fist." By Florence and the Machine. BTW I'm a big fan of too soon jokes. Hope I didn't offered you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

LOL, no offense taken, Mrs GP, great song choice. My rule of thumb is nothing is cruel if it's funny enough. Like I always say, life is a combination of happy and sad, like lighting a clown on fire.


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> Just I began to question the amount of time I've been spending on TAM, I have made some important realizations. Somebody wrote something that is true of me and probably Ms GP. Paraphrase:
> 
> _*A person who is abused by their closest in childhood will not know how to cope with healthy love later in life.*_
> 
> This explains to me why I longed to write an letter to the teacher in high school who gave me positive emotional support. I felt ashamed to write him. Why? It's very illogical. Around 12 years ago I once wrote his wife an email. She was very happy to hear from me and said that her husband had worried that I'd never grow up.
> 
> But you see I never did grow up, or to be more precise, I never began to feel good inside. I still don't know what do when people like me or say you did a great job. I feel confused. Failure and being yelled and told that I was going to "kill my father and marry mother" and other such nonsense that my psychiatrist dad spewed out in rage seems normal.
> 
> Of course, addiction is a solution to these feeling.
> 
> I think Ms GP didn't feel comfortable having a great life with a great guy, so she destroyed to get back to normal, i.e., being abused and criticised.
> 
> So, GP is right on when he says Ms GP must get rid of the guilt and accept herself so that GP doesn't have to bear the burden fixing her.
> 
> I have to do things well and accept that I deserve to succeed.


LW....Nice post. I believe that Ms. GP would not allow herself to be happy. I used to lie in bed and wonder. She has it better than 95% of the women on this planet but yet she is miserable. She's got the looks, the house, amazing kids, the GP, the six figure income. I would think to myself WTF? Her f'd up childhood may have have stolen her ability to feel joy.

I think Mavash said that one's ability to experience joy is directly proportional to the amount of pain they allow themselves to feel. Addicts/Alcoholics do not allow themselves to feel the pain. They try to numb it out. Recipe for a miserable life. No pain. No joy. No happiness. 

And yes LW my fixing days are over. I no longer want to carry or shield Ms. GP from pain. She has to walk her own path now and it appears like she wants to still come along with me and the kids.


----------



## ReGroup

GutPunch said:


> yes LW my fixing days are over. I no longer want to carry or shield Ms. GP from pain. She has to walk her own path now and it appears like she wants to still come along with me and the kids.


How wrong THIS felt once upon a time.

Little did we know it is the right approach.


----------



## LongWalk

My father will die within a year or two at most. My mother has an lung condition, akin to TB. Schizophrenic brother is dead. My youngest brother is in Italy with family. My other brother is buying a house down the road from Disenchanted. My eldest daughter 18 with her friend on a beautiful island; they are both chasing the same boy. Daughter, 15, baked a berry pie at my ex's. I just ate a quarter of it. We are going for a bike ride in the evening sun. With daughter only. Don't know where ex is, don't care.

Lot of sugar in blood right now.

Daughter 15 what are you doing?

Make sure to log out. Actually my kids are cool, they could cope. Raised them pretty well. Haven't fvck up everything.


----------



## Bullwinkle

LongWalk, yet another great post. becoming legendary.

Loved your post, Punch, especially when you aknowledged, And she had the GP!".


----------



## Conrad

ReGroup said:


> How wrong THIS felt once upon a time.
> 
> Little did we know it is the right approach.


Mine is so chatty and sexy.

I just wanted her to hang out at home enjoying herself - pursue whatever interests she had, raise the kids, etc. - and anticipate my return home after work.


----------



## Northern Monkey

The level of feeling comments really hits home.

I worked so hard at not feeling the pain from my childhood that not only did I struggle to feel real happiness at all, I failed to feel the shyt that went on with stbx.

When you have been subjected to deep pain and betrayal, numbness can be such a relief.

It may be a needed survival mechanism but it's no way to live beyond that immediate need. Kicking out of the rut of numbness is so hard. It's hard to believe the alternative could actually be better. It is.


----------



## Conrad

Northern Monkey said:


> I worked so hard at not feeling the pain from my childhood that not only did I struggle to feel real happiness at all, I failed to feel the shyt that went on with stbx.


And it was a torrent.


----------



## Ms. GP

I think this is a very fair assessment GP. I did have everything I had ever wanted and it took me almost losing everything to force me to get the help I so desperately needed. That is why I tell everyone that the extensive inpatient treatment saved my life. I was emotionally abscessed for a very long time. In treatment, I was able to flesh all of that stuff out and am a million times happier as a result. You guys are right one has to feel the pain to feel the joy. Live life on life's terms without trying to numb any of it out. I truly feels I have the life tools to do this now and it is not GP's responsibility it is only my own.

How'd you get so smart GP? Jk
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Ms. GP said:


> How'd you get so smart GP?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I droppped a lot of acid in high school.


----------



## Ms. GP

Ha ha. But it's true. Now I'm able to find gratitude in difficult situations. For example, when I got arrested my thoughts were thank God the kids weren't with me, thank God this didn't happen before treatment, and this is nothing compared to the pain of dday. I even met some ladies from the Aa group I attend and got invited to a women's only meeting and was very grateful for that because it is now my favorite meeting. Also, as soon as I got out my first thought was I need a meeting asap. I had GP drop me off at one and I felt better. Had that happened before treatment there is no telling how many chemicals I would have dumped in my body to make that anxiety go away. I shudder just thinking about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

You can shudder all you want as long as it is not from chemical substances ingested into the body.

I am glad you able to deal with life head on.

How is your own long term perception of your issues?

Are you thinking that far? or more dealing with issues day by day?


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: Gutpunch's Journal*



Bullwinkle said:


> Loved your post, Punch, especially when you aknowledged, And she had the GP!".


My favorite part too. Just casually slips it in there.

Funny but also very true.


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## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> Well she certainly got my vote!
> 
> And kudos to you for walking with a big stick.
> 
> The horses must go crazy when you walk by.....
> 
> 😂🐴


That's why they call me GutPunch. I bet you thought it was for something else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ms. GP

That's a good question Happy man. I think I am dealing with them more day by day with the mind set I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I have decided to create a lot of loving distance with my parents, but I think my borderline mother is starting to catch on. I don't answer the phone because I feel I am not strong enough to deal with her. I know my return to work will be difficult but one day at a time right now. I may feel totally different in a few months. Who knows?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch

Still my favorite thread, you and my man SoCa, and it's gotten even better since Mrs GP waded in to these muddy waters. 

I wish you two lovebirds nothing but the best but If God forbid you two start beating the crap out of each other, we want details and pictures. 

And Mrs GP, GP likes his pork chops at least once a week.


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## tom67

BW your w sounds somewhat hot as you describe and RG's sounds hot just from her entitled dimented side. I said it before, we need a cage match in jello. It will be therapeutic for them to release the anger-no?:rofl: Sorry gf laughing her arse off going to bed bye!


----------



## Ms. GP

I think in straight up hand to hand combat, Mrs. RG would kick her FAN all over town!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ms. GP

Too bad I'm out on bail or both those bi**he's would be going down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pbartender

Ms. GP said:


> Too bad I'm out on bail or both those bi**he's would be going down.


Tag us in, then... There's plenty of guys here who would be more than happy to jump into a jello filled pit with Mrs. RG and Frostine while they go down.

Wait... What?


----------



## Ms. GP

Pork chops once a week. Got it. I like to stand over the stove with a cigarette hanging out of my mouth, Peg Bundy style, while I'm cooking them. Then we like to play a fun little game at the dinner table called,"Is that Pepper."

Mwah ha ha ha!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

tom67 said:


> BW your w sounds somewhat hot as you describe and RG's sounds hot just from her entitled dimented side. I said it before, we need a cage match in jello. It will be therapeutic for them to release the anger-no?:rofl: Sorry gf laughing her arse off going to bed bye!


:iagree:

RG described his wife a bit and he admitted she is very attractive... I mean it would just be impossible to imagine going on so long about her just for the pure beauty of her craziness. Her earnestness must be appealing as well.

Imagine how after she was burned by the cousin's prank she told RG that she lay sleepless half the night (next to POSOM?) and thought about RG finally chasing her. That alone is sex fantasy material.

BW's wife is more enigmatic and sophisticated. Her British accent is probably a mixture of received pronunciation with some sort of Franco tinge, which she can modulate to excite male attention. She probably talks dirty in bed in French if necessary.

As for the jello fight, I have feeling Frostine has been in fights before. A Benjamin Franklin says she has destroyed at least one ex boyfriend's apartment before his eyes. On the other hand a Latina woman from NYC who could call her husband a show stopping ****** (urban dictionary) sounds like she could hold her own.


l


----------



## Bullwinkle

Upon reflection, I think you are all correct, it would be a classic cage match a la jello of all time. I have no doubt as to Mrs RG's pugnacious nature and background and fiery temper. But Frostine, while seemingly sophisticated and cool, has throughout her life initiated bar fights, punched a flight attendant, gotten into scuffles over seating in restaurants. How could you not love this in a woman?

Mrs GP, nice image, cigarette ashes on GPs pork chops.


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## LongWalk

Not cigarette ashes, that's white pepper.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I stand corrected.


----------



## LongWalk

Here is a TV skit of Swedish White trash. Observe the cig.

The woman is divorced tattoo artist who is telling her gf that she picked a guy for wild monkey sex. She sends her son into wake him while telling gf it is good for kids to meet new people.

"Call him Pappa," she tell her son.

The actress is a comic genius


----------



## Ms. GP

Happy day. For me anyways. GP and I are moving my stuff from that awful apartment. I'm sensing a little resentment from GP. Perfectly understandable. But for me, today I'm the one skipping through the house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Happy day. For me anyways. GP and I are moving my stuff from that awful apartment. I'm sensing a little resentment from GP. Perfectly understandable. But for me, today I'm the one skipping through the house.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Congrats.

Let him work through his triggers.

I'm sure you can think of something to make him feel better.


----------



## Ms. GP

Yeah. You're right Conrad. It'll probably won't include pork chops.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

Another interesting turn of events, one of GP's friends wives stopped me at the store because they were going through a similar situation. I gave her my number. Who knows? Mabye shell call.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Ms.GP, I don't really buy the jealousy line on your reasons to why you created a dating account(you did that twice). I believe you were truly trying to leave GP at that point. In fact, from what you posted about your last conversation with OM, it looks like you were the one that were dumped, albeit indirectly. He already made the choice for you.

My intention is not to pile up more hurt or make you feel worse .. there are several layers and levels of serious betrayal and hurt GP was put through which cannot be simply explained through drug addiction. It simply isn't enough at any level. I think it will take you some more time to really understand what you did to GP. Right now you are occupied by your own recovery, your kids and the move. The marriage is not going to repair itself. At some point, you need to make it a priority.

Did you read anything about what a betrayed spouse goes through after infidelity ? People here can help you with some links if you haven't already.


----------



## Ms. GP

Your right warlock, the marriage isn't going to heal itself. Both GP and I are actively participating in IC and MC. I have to respectfully disagree that I am not making my marriage a priority. I have read the book His needs, her needs. How to build an affair proof marriage, and I welcome any suggestions of threads and other books. Your right things can not simply be explained away through drug addiction, and I apologize if I made it appear so. It will take time, but I assure you I am more than willing to do the work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

I don't think things are fixed with GP, but it seems that for the last 2 weeks we have hit a patch of calm waters. Does that mean we won't hit rough waters in the future? Absolutely not, and I'm sorry if I made it appear so with some of my silly jokes. But for right, I'm really enjoying this present moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

I know it seems like I have a lot in my plate, but I'm a little obsessive compulsive by nature(big shock I know!) In fact, GP teases me about it all the time. In the past, I have been able to harness this crazy for good with academics, sports, etc. Right now my priorities are my recovery, my marriage, my children, and the move. In that order. I know some of you may question this but if I don't put my recovery first I will lose the rest. If I don't put my marriage second, I will lose the stable loving home I'm trying to provide for my children. Hope this makes sense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> I know it seems like I have a lot in my plate, but I'm a little obsessive compulsive by nature(big shock I know!) In fact, GP teases me about it all the time. In the past, I have been able to harness this crazy for good with academics, sports, etc. Right now my priorities are my recovery, my marriage, my children, and the move. In that order. I know some of you may question this but if I don't put my recovery first I will lose the rest. If I don't put my marriage second, I will lose the stable loving home I'm trying to provide for my children. Hope this makes sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Makes perfect sense.


----------



## warlock07

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse | AFFAIRCARE


----------



## warlock07

I copied this FAQ list from somewhere(survivinginfidelity.com) else but does GP have an answer to all the relevant questions.

What did your affair partner have or offer that your spouse didn't?

Did you talk down about your spouse/partner to your AP?

How long were you in the fog and what did it take to snap you out of it?

How Could You Do This If You Loved Your BS?

What were you thinking?

Did you compare us?

Do you think about OP when you are intimate with me?

Am I second choice?

Is it Always the Fog? Do they Always come out of It?

Did you even think of me or our children while you were with him/her?

What if my WS is saying all of the right things but my gut is telling me something different?

Why didn't you trust me enough to share your dissatisfaction before you looked elsewhere?

What is it you fear most about the future of your relationship with BS after confessing or being caught?

How do you know you won't cheat again?

Were you more adventurous (sexually) with the OP? And if you denied your spouse those activities what was it about the A that allowed you to be that way with OP and not your spouse?

Why would a WS continue an A, and demonstrate more loyalty to an OP than the spouse they've hurt so deeply?

How do you heal when you are both the WS and BS?

Why would a WS demonstrate more loyalty to an OP than the spouse they've hurt so deeply?

What if the OP was your soulmate?

How could you not think of the consequences, to A spouse, children, family, friends?

Was it real love???

What were you like when you were with op? How were you different or were you?

What are some of the needs you had and wanted from your BS or WS that helped you feel that R was real or a real possibility?


----------



## Ms. GP

Alright dude. I call uncle. GP and I are moving this weekend and the move has been triggering painful memories for both of us. I need a break, and I think these questions should probably be answered in front of a marriage counselor too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Progress not perfection you two will do fine.


----------



## Shaggy

Out of curiosity, since you've been through treatment for drugs,

Why do they let you continue to smoke? Isn't that letting you continue a drug addiction? I would have thought they would want you to get fully clean, not just clean of the controlled stuff.


----------



## Ms. GP

Actually some of the counselors recommended smoking in early sobriety. Seeing as most people don't get thrown in jail over smoking. I think they look at is a sort of step down process. I wiil quit soon. I'm thinking when I hit six months of sobriety. Actually most people in treatment did do some kind of addiction transfer with food, exercise, and a lot of the women even developed eating disorders too. It's a slow process but not impossible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Childhood trauma almost requires from sort of self-medication, until it all gets sorted out.

Just use lots of Scope.

I'm sure GP will be fine with it


----------



## Ms. GP

Actually now that I think about it. Food and smoking was the only thing that was not regulated in treatment. I did gain some weight there too because I was self medicating with food too. I don't know how much but all of my clothes were tight. But before I left things calmed down and I am now down to my normal weight without any real effort on my part. I think smoking will probably go the same way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Ms. GP said:


> Actually now that I think about it. Food and smoking was the only thing that was not regulated in treatment. I did gain some weight there too because I was self medicating with food too. I don't know how much but all of my clothes were tight. But before I left things calmed down and I am now down to my normal weight without any real effort on my part. I think smoking will probably go the same way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you are a bit in denial about the smoking. It's a very strong addiction for the brain, very strong. The drug hit isn't as debilitating to the rest of your life, so it's not going to get you jail of course, but it's not going to just slip away one day and be gone, especially for some one with addiction problems.

I would have thought part of treatment was to learn to be honest with yourself on stuff like this!


----------



## Ms. GP

No. I don't think it will slip away. I plan on buying some nicotine patches and gradually stepping down. The point I was trying to make is coming off of opiates is such a shock to one's system that some addiction transfer is normal and it is a slow process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

One thing I will say to warlock. GP didn't fail to meet any of my emotional needs. I was being incredibly selfish at the time, and it was wrong and immature and I am deeply remorseful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Actually now that I think about it. Food and smoking was the only thing that was not regulated in treatment. I did gain some weight there too because I was self medicating with food too. I don't know how much but all of my clothes were tight. But before I left things calmed down and I am now down to my normal weight without any real effort on my part. I think smoking will probably go the same way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You could ramp up on food when you quit cigarettes.

It's been known to happen.


----------



## r0r0bin

This man is tough, i guess his love for his children made him wants to reform the family. And his love to this woman is in low percentage(small). He deserves a new conscious, caring, kind and the tough one for a wife. GP i am glad that there is still a man like you in this world although i have zero respect to the woman that you took back into the family.


----------



## Conrad

r0r0bin said:


> This man is tough, i guess his love for his children made him wants to reform the family. And his love to this woman is in low percentage(small). He deserves a new conscious, caring, kind and the tough one for a wife. GP i am glad that there is still a man like you in this world although i have zero respect to the woman that you took back into the family.


That's a bit rough, don't you think?

Have you been cheated on?


----------



## GutPunch

r0r0bin said:


> This man is tough, i guess his love for his children made him wants to reform the family. And his love to this woman is in low percentage(small). He deserves a new conscious, caring, kind and the tough one for a wife. GP i am glad that there is still a man like you in this world although i have zero respect to the woman that you took back into the family.


I do love my children.

I do love my wife.

I do deserve better.

Life isn't fair, is it?
She is not a bad person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## r0r0bin

Damn ... suddenly, i am melting by reading your story. Your wife actions took my symphathy to her, i hate cheating wife but by this story i am slowly humble to throw my anger toward cheating wife. Your wife is the first CW that got my attention and i feel she is on the serious self-reformed road and her way to prove you she is not doing her games anymore she is in yours. 

MY Hope for you GP and the Ms: Go for this

ouh i feel like that i am the betrayed husband here.


----------



## Conrad

r0r0bin said:


> Damn ... suddenly, i am melting by reading your story. Your wife actions took my symphathy to her, i hate cheating wife but by this story i am slowly humble to throw my anger toward cheating wife. Your wife is the first CW that got my attention and i feel she is on the serious self-reformed road and her way to prove you she is not doing her games anymore she is in yours.
> 
> MY Hope for you GP and the Ms: Go for this
> 
> ouh i feel like that i am the betrayed husband here.


I've been involved with Punch over the good part of the last year.

His love for Ms GP is deep, abiding, and strong.

His love for himself has been tested through this.

But, it remains intact.

Feelings come and go... faith and courage are what gets us through.

I don't see either of them as cowards or shirkers.

Their future is bright, if they're willing to claim it.


----------



## Ms. GP

Thank you both for the kind words. It means a lot. Rorobin my first thought when I read your post was that you were a very hurt woman. I didn't want to respond in anger and add to your hurt. I wish you well in your journey of healing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

just got it 55 said:


> GP Just try to remember that your wife is not a serial cheater she is and addict. Remember people turn to stealing, selling their own children for sex to get the fix from dope sickness. I know the adultery hurts like hell. I am sure in the support groups they have told you all this. Just try to keep in in mind.


MGP You can read what I have posted here a few weeks back Stay on your path of sobriety and time will give you both all you need.The best thing God ever made was another day


----------



## GutPunch

So I get home from the grocery store and there is a small step ladder set up in the kitchen. Instant TRIGGER!!!!!!

Either somebody has been cleaning or the Garden Gnome needed a glass of water. Better check the VAR.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> So I get home from the grocery store and there is a small step ladder set up in the kitchen. Instant TRIGGER!!!!!!
> 
> Either somebody has been cleaning or the Garden Gnome needed a glass of water. Better check the VAR.




Still in a good mood!


----------



## Arendt

Ms. GP said:


> No. I don't think it will slip away. I plan on buying some nicotine patches and gradually stepping down. The point I was trying to make is coming off of opiates is such a shock to one's system that some addiction transfer is normal and it is a slow process.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've been clean 16 years of drugs and alcohol. However, my experience is that I just overall tend to overdo things. In recent years work has been the dominant thing in my life. I became a workaholic and very career focused. I guess "addictive personality" would be the way to describe it. So I always have to strive for some balance and just watch that I don't become too focused on some one thing to make me happy or whatever. It is really easy to transfer addiction to drugs to addiction to some other thing. There are even some forms of treatment that play on that...I've heard of folks using workouts and such as their way of trading addictions. There is a group in NYC that does that. Whatever works I guess, but for me it kind of skirts the really great, but very hard, work that 12 Steps of AA call for and the growth it allows for us.


----------



## Ms. GP

Wow Arendt! I had no idea you were in recovery too. 16 years that's awesome!! I agree. I tend to overdue things too. Now that the move is over, part of me wants to obsessively clean and organize the house. I will do this but I need to remember to always strive for balance. I agree with you, whatever works for others. But for me, I am trying to avoid being a dry addict and alcoholic
, and I think actively working the 12 steps with a sponsor is the key. I just finished step one last night with my sponsor. One of the meetings I go to every week is a step study meeting where others share their experiences with working certain steps. I really like it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

So I am at the MC's office with Ms. GP.

The counselor asks for each of us to write down things the other can do or has done that makes you feel special.

I write down unsolicited hugs and affection, little notes from her etc.

Ms. GP writes expensive jewelry, cruises, fine dining and a spa day.

I want my list back so I can get a do over.


----------



## old timer

GutPunch said:


> Ms. GP writes expensive jewelry, cruises, fine dining and a spa day.
> 
> I want my list back so I can get a do over.


This is her flip sense of humor surfacing, right?
.


----------



## Ms. GP

He's exaggerating. I was listing the nice things he had done in the past. We went on a cruise one time. It was fun. He bought me some beautiful jewelry after the kids were born. I appreciated it. I had other stuff on their too. What was cool was some of the things on our lists were the same.
But hey. A girl's got needs. She might as well shoot for the stars!! Ha ha

On a serious note. Today was the first time I heard GP say he was feeling hopeful about everything. I was so happy I started crying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

I'm sure he neglected to tell everyone that he had things on there like, make a sex tape.

Ha ha. I keed. I keed.!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

Ms. GP said:


> I'm sure he neglected to tell everyone that he had things on there like, make a sex tape.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Ms. GP said:


> I'm sure he neglected to tell everyone that he had things on there like, make a sex tape.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Blah Blah Blah

I can't imagine the jealously fueled tongue lashing I would get after I became an international superstar overnight. If there is one thing I have learned from ReGroup's thread, is don't become a show stealer.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Blah Blah Blah
> 
> I can't imagine the jealously fueled tongue lashing I would get after I became an international superstar overnight. If there is one thing I have learned from ReGroup's thread, is don't become a show stealer.


Cheap, balding show-stealers are worse.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> Cheap, balding show-stealers are worse.


Yea they become azz notches


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Cheap, balding show-stealers are worse.


TBH...I'm tight with the funds and low on hair count.


----------



## warlock07

Ms. GP said:


> Alright dude. I call uncle. GP and I are moving this weekend and the move has been triggering painful memories for both of us. I need a break, and I think these questions should probably be answered in front of a marriage counselor too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not asking you to post your replies here. it is none of our business. But in time GP will need to know the answers to most of them and believe them to be true. And that is what I meant by making marriage a priority.


----------



## Tron

Warlock, I am sure all of those questions and many more have run through GP's mind for the past 9 months. And I am sure Ms. GP has pondered them to some degree as well. It is a pretty clear that they are working through it and seem to be making some good progress. The process takes time. Our job as I see it is support and to not try to create more stress and more triggers.

With that in mind, and disregarding GP being a cheap, mildly balding, hung, show stealing FAN...on behalf of all the hounds, what we really want to know is when and where to show up for the pre-screening before the video goes viral.


----------



## Ms. GP

I see what you mean Warlock. Thanks for the list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

And yes, please don't steal my thunder GP or I will have to burn you with cigarettes like I do the children. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Ms. GP said:


> And yes, please don't steal my thunder GP or I will have to burn you with cigarettes like I do the children.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"mommy dearest"


----------



## Ms. GP

After all I've done for them!!!!

Wire hangers???!!!!! Ahhhhhhhh!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Blah Blah Blah
> 
> I can't imagine the jealously fueled tongue lashing I would get after I became an international superstar overnight. If there is one thing I have learned from ReGroup's thread, is don't become a show stealer.


No, No, No Mrs GP. You misunderstood GP about the sextape.

That was not for his personal enjoyment.

That is his insurance policy....
:lol:


----------



## Bullwinkle

A balding show stealer.


----------



## tom67

Bullwinkle said:


> A balding show stealer.


I resemble that remark.


----------



## Tron

Bullwinkle said:


> A balding show stealer.


A bunch of these around these parts apparently.


----------



## Conrad

Bullwinkle said:


> A balding show stealer.


Cheap, balding, show stealers are thrice blessed.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> Cheap, balding, show stealers are thrice blessed.


There's a surprisingly large market for cheap, balding show-stealers.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> There's a surprisingly large market for cheap, balding show-stealers.


Confident, centred, cheap, balding, show-stealers most of all.


----------



## Ms. GP

Thanks CCF. Yes there is a plan for counseling for the kids in the works. As of now, our kids are very young. ( 4 and 7). They have been remarkably resilient through everything. They don't appear to have any behavioral issues at the present moment, but that doesn't mean they don't need to process a lot of things. Thanks for the input.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Struggling today. My self love is gone and I feel I am about 50% of the man I used to be. I used to workout six days a week. Now none. With all that has happened, it is hard for me to hold my head up high. I need my energy back.My pride. My ego. I'm a pity party and I hate it. Maybe it is a stage of depression? Who knows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Struggling today. My self love is gone and I feel I am about 50% of the man I used to be. I used to workout six days a week. Now none. With all that has happened, it is hard for me to hold my head up high. I need my energy back.My pride. My ego. I'm a pity party and I hate it. Maybe it is a stage of depression? Who knows.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You always been hard on yourself?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> You always been hard on yourself?


Without a doubt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Start exercising GP. Just do it. Ms GP smoking leads to premature menopause. But you lnew that. Run one hour tmw. Mad shrink son's prescription.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Star pupil. Star athlete. Alcoholic father I was never good enough
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

GP,
TAM made me realize that I've suffered depression my whole life. Sucks. But now I see things clearly. 

It is a beautiful sunny day in Sweden. I am fixing my garden up. I have a new neighbor. She is a drag. First time I've met and she telling I am using too much water. Demanded I cut my hops down to give her more sun light. She talks too much but now I understand she is testing. I do not have to invest emotional energy into deciphering her. Her husband, if she has one must be happy when she's not around. The weeds are doomed. My hops will live on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Star pupil. Star athlete. Alcoholic father I was never good enough
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Time to root that stuff out.


----------



## Conrad

LongWalk said:


> GP,
> TAM made me realize that I've suffered depression my whole life. Sucks. But now I see things clearly.
> 
> It is a beautiful sunny day in Sweden. I am fixing my garden up. I have a new neighbor. She is a drag. First time I've met and she telling I am using too much water. Demanded I cut my hops down to give her more sun light. She talks too much but now I understand she is testing. I do not have to invest emotional energy into deciphering her. Her husband, if she has one must be happy when she's not around. The weeds are doomed. My hops will live on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Walk,

Look at it this way, if you weren't in the process of recovery, you might take the dingbat seriously.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Time to root that stuff out.


Where do I start?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Where do I start?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


IC

This link really really helped me:

http://www.selfleadership.org/about-internal-family-systems.html


----------



## LongWalk

Conrad said:


> IC
> 
> This link really really helped me:
> 
> About Internal Family Systems


Thanks, Conrad. Really interesting.

I wonder if TAM itself could be a cause of depression. It causes us to look at the managers, exiles and firefighters. That must cause anxiety since the unhealthy system is being constantly exposed to scrutiny.

My first take is:

You're messed up because of x, y and z

You hide this trauma from yourself

When it gets exposed you block it out by engaging in unhealthy behavior


----------



## Conrad

LongWalk said:


> Thanks, Conrad. Really interesting.
> 
> I wonder if TAM itself could be a cause of depression.


If know of one guy who gets depressed just reading my posts.


----------



## GutPunch

4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy.

No matter what the child of an alcoholic or addict does, they cannot "fix" their parent or their family. They may be able to take care of the addict or other members of the family, but they are unable to fix the root of the problem: the addiction and relating family dysfunction. No matter how well the child does is soccer, how high their school grades, no matter how clean they keep the house, how "good" they are, they still can't fix the addict. Everything they do falls short.

Additionally, the child of an alcoholic or addict may blame him/herself for bad things that happen in the family, and are frequently guilt-ridden for reasons beyond their control. Perfectionism is very common in ACOAs.

5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun.

Growing up with an addicted parent is not fun. Kids are not allowed to be kids. When the kids are not given this joy, the adult usually does not know how to simply enjoy life. The ACOA is constantly worrying about their addicted parent, or is in trouble for things they should not be responsible for, or compensating in some other way for the addict. The usually carefree, fun time of being a child often does not exist if the parent is an addict.

The addict is the "child" in the relationship. Because of this, the child does not know how to be a child.

6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously.

Due to the gravity of their roles in their families growing up, adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously. The weight of the family, and thus the world, is on their shoulders.

11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible.

Once the child from an addicted family gets older and forms their own identity, the ACOA may either strictly follow a schedule and wants everything in order, controlled- perfect. These adult children often struggle with anxiety, OCD, perfectionism, and eating disorders.

The opposite result is the ACOA who is a party animal. This adult child may develop an alcohol, drug, or other behavioral addiction. This ACOA may live a life very much like their addicted parent, or they may "shape up" and get their life together, with appropriate support.

12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.

"Why do you put up with him?" Adult children of alcoholics/addicts are used to dealing with just that- an addict. They are used to either taking care of an addict or seeing others take care of an addict. Drunken fights and broken promises is normal to the ACOA. Growing up, the child of an alcoholic was probably told "it isn't his fault" or "he didn't mean it, he was drunk."

Because of these lowered expectations, an adult child of an alcoholic/addict frequently ends up in a relationship with another addict, abusive partners, or otherwise unhealthy relationships.


These hit home with me.

I got some work to do.


----------



## LongWalk

Tough reading


----------



## happyman64

> These hit home with me.
> 
> I got some work to do.



And just the fact that you can see these issues in yourself is very good.

And remember one other thing.

We all have work to do on ourselves. You are not alone.....

HM


----------



## GutPunch

Your right Happy.

At least I got somewhere to start.

Conditioning for little league football starts today. 

I'm excited.


----------



## Chuck71

ROLL TIDE ROLL :lol:


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, WTF. You know we can't go more than a day without a post from you or The Old Lady.


----------



## Ms. GP

Bullwinkle said:


> Punch, WTF. You know we can't go more than a day without a post from you or The Old Lady.


Well I can't speak for GP, but these days I'm pretty boring. I've been super busy doing fun stuff with the kiddos. I don't think the people of TAM care about our adventures at the splash pad, local pool, parks, and the creek. ( it's super hot down here so we are usually by some body of water.) The boy just started football and the girl is in gymnastics. 

I did get asked to speak at the treatment center I went to and that was a very surreal experience, but nothing exciting to report. Sorry. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> I did get asked to speak at the treatment center I went to and that was a very surreal experience, but nothing exciting to report. Sorry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Doesn't the Garden Gnome still work there?

I would have thought Punch would like to come along to live up to his name.


----------



## Bullwinkle

And what the hell is a splash pad?


----------



## Pbartender

Bullwinkle said:


> And what the hell is a splash pad?


Dude... Learn how to use Google... 

Splash pad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Ms. GP

Conrad said:


> Doesn't the Garden Gnome still work there?
> 
> I would have thought Punch would like to come along to live up to his name.


No. I think you have me confused with someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

Bullwinkle said:


> And what the hell is a splash pad?


Splash pads are awesome. They are like giant sprinklers.

Oh, one more thing. GP got asked to coach football, and because I'm not working he can do it while I watch the girl. Oh snap!! I can hear him now, " Hey kids!! How about taking your dress off and hitting somebody!!"

GP seems to be doing better. He started working out again and has quit diet coke again. I think the coaching gig is just what he needs to snap out of his depression. (Fingers crossed!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pbartender

Ms. GP said:


> I think the coaching gig is just what he needs to snap out of his depression. (Fingers crossed!)


Heh. In the year before AXW and I separated, I coached my son's Robotic Club team. And it really did help...

Until AXW starting hitting on the single Dad of one of the other kids on the team. 

Don't do that.


----------



## LongWalk

Do you call GP, "Punch" or "GP" in real life now?


----------



## Pbartender

LongWalk said:


> Do you call GP, "Punch" or "GP" in real life now?


No... she just hits him the stomach every time he walks by.

Remember, it's the WS's _actions_, not their _words_ that are important.


----------



## Bullwinkle

PB, I googled Pbartender, nada.

Now I know what a splash pad is, Mrs. GP. Us Yankees call them water parks. Two years ago I got drunk and passed out in one.


----------



## Pbartender

Bullwinkle said:


> PB, I googled Pbartender, nada.


I was talking about Googling "splash pad".


----------



## Ms. GP

Man!! You guys are in fire today!! Ha ha. 
Splash pads are like mini water parks. Passed out at one that sounds like something the old me would have done. 

I gave him a lamo nickname a long time ago. I just add a y to his real name. Mabye I could call him punchy now? Ha ha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

I prefer my old college nickname of "Tripod".


----------



## Pbartender

GutPunch said:


> I prefer my old college nickname of "Tripod".


Your legs are that short?


----------



## Ms. GP

GutPunch said:


> I prefer my old college nickname of "Tripod".


I'm not calling you that. At least not in public. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Pbartender said:


> Your legs are that short?


Ouch PB, that was cold.. But I laughed out loud so I guess I'm not any better!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Ouch! 30 damage points according to the
D&D guide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, Tripod one of best college names of all time. I had a sign on my door that said, This Log Is Legendary. Class act, huh?


----------



## GutPunch

Yes....Finally!


----------



## GutPunch

So I am sitting with Ms. GP at the MC's office. Ms. GP is laying it all out, sobbing and crying, really getting deep. I'm sitting there thinking this is pretty intense. 

We get done and the wife is still bawling and we get up to leave. The MC looks at me and says three times about the great and wonderful job I did. I'm thinking huh?

LOL....my poor wife was sobbing and I get the kudos. WTF....I was just sitting there giving the MC the ReGroup stare and listening to it all.

Maybe there is something to get from this technique. I just want to tell everyone how great the Buffalo Bills did in their four straight super bowls.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> So I am sitting with Ms. GP at the MC's office. Ms. GP is laying it all out, sobbing and crying, really getting deep. I'm sitting there thinking this is pretty intense.
> 
> We get done and the wife is still bawling and we get up to leave. The MC looks at me and says three times about the great and wonderful job I did. I'm thinking huh?
> 
> LOL....my poor wife was sobbing and I get the kudos. WTF....I was just sitting there giving the MC the ReGroup stare and listening to it all.
> 
> Maybe there is something to get from this technique. I just want to tell everyone how great the Buffalo Bills did in their four straight super bowls.


Sorry Bills fans, but GP, you've got folks here that think a lot more of you than those sorry azz Buffalo Bills. 

All I can say is hold her in your arms until she is ready to get up. You got this!


----------



## Chaparral

I think that's good. He was telling you how much she has seen how foolish she has been and realizes what she has risked/is risking.

Two years after my, I thought, future wife messed up,
I was done. It ain't over till its over. It takes time to figure it all out and what the next chapter will be. Good luck to you both.


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> Sorry Bills fans, but GP, you've got folks here that think a lot more of you than those sorry azz Buffalo Bills.
> 
> All I can say is hold her in your arms until she is ready to get up. You got this!



....and all I can say to you is grab yours by the back of her head and well just ask Stella.


----------



## mallycoo

Sounds like she's definitely aware of the enormity of the situation which is a good thing, perhaps you did a good job just by listening and allowing her to get it all out?

It's good to see that there's plenty going on though, a lot being said and done and it seems positive to me, a lot more than when you started this thread look at it that way!


----------



## GutPunch

The particular session revolved around her childhood and she really layed the painful truth out there. Tough to listen too and more tough for her to have to relive it thru the MC.


----------



## mallycoo

I always hope for people come out of counselling with a better knowledge of themselves and their partners, a better understanding of who they are and why they do things and perhaps more control over themselves and their lives. It sounds like there's something being achieved here at least. I never got the chance to go to counselling unfortunately (or fortunately looking back lol)


----------



## LongWalk

All this stuff in MC is just prepping you for your first season of being a coach. Those kids will feel that you love them win or lose. If any of them are on the same baseball team as your son, by the time the season starts, they'll have your back.

Is Mrs GP going to watch the games?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> The particular session revolved around her childhood and she really layed the painful truth out there. Tough to listen too and more tough for her to have to relive it thru the MC.


I want to echo your therapist and congratulate you. Hard to listen to, but simply being present and supportive - without trying to fix... is the absolute best thing you can do.

She's lucky to have you.


----------



## Northern Monkey

Reliving childhood trauma never "gets old". I consider myself very lucky to have had a very small Number of people I could trust to unburden myself to (all but one even managed to not stab me in the back later lol).

If you have managed to be a source of support to her in laying out her past you deserve the kudos.

As hard as it has been for me to let he skeletons out, I don't imagine having those skeletons to deal with was a walk in the park for others either and I have a huge amount of respect for those that were able to hear it and not think less of me. Funny that the one person that absolutely should have fallen into that category was the one that didn't.. It's always a risk to open up like that.

Seems to me kudos were given where due. I've not been ousting so much of late but I have a lot of respect for how ms.gp has been approaching this too, doesn't mean you don't get what's yours.


----------



## LongWalk

Ms GP and GP have both taken the sharp axes of their intellects to go at the Jack and the Beanstalk weed of Ms GP's addiction and infidelity. The horrible plant will never completely die. They must chop and chop for years to come. However, their live has other beautiful plants so that they can enjoy each other and renew themselves.

Maybe someday the weed will just be something dry and stunted. 

The important thing is that Ms GP should never seek absolution and clean slate. And GP should always leave a crack in door so that she knows she can come into the light when he is down.

Appearances can be deceiving but the old photo buried way back in the thread shows GP with his ironic witty smile, scarcely believing his has such a handsome gal. And so, happiness turned out not to be something without real suffering. Hansel and Gretel suffered horribly. Yet they survived their terrible childhoods. We can do it, too, even if we become suspicious of houses made of free gingerbread.

When GP and I first met we did not know shyte about ourselves. I have come further thanks to you guys.

In my atheistic way I am praying for BW, RG, Angstire, et al.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, keep this SHYT up, you're doing great, really happy toy you, bro. LW, another great analogy.


----------



## GutPunch

Sunday will be our 12th wedding anniversary. For some reason, it is causing me some pain and anxiety. I almost want a new anniversary to celebrate. Is this normal?


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Sunday will be our 12th wedding anniversary. For some reason, it is causing me some pain and anxiety. I almost want a new anniversary to celebrate. Is this normal?


I dont remember celebrating anything that first anniversary after dday; it was about 7 months later.

So yeah, totally normal. Neither one of us felt like we had much to celebrate at the time. 

Time healing will change that.


----------



## GutPunch

Well it looks like I survived our 12th anniversary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

Congrats GP... You survived another mile stone.

Time to unzip my brother - you deserve it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Well it looks like I survived our 12th anniversary.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You but did Mrs GP?

And congratulations to you both. It takes two....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

Yes I did. Great weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Then good for both of you. Keep at it.


----------



## Ms. GP

Well it's official tomorrow I celebrate six months of sobriety. I' m quitting smoking and GP is quitting diet coke. God help us!!


----------



## tom67

Ms. GP said:


> Well it's official tomorrow I celebrate six months of sobriety. I' m quitting smoking and GP is quitting diet coke. God help us!!


Oh boy just kidding good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012

Ms. GP said:


> Well it's official tomorrow I celebrate six months of sobriety. I' m quitting smoking and GP is quitting diet coke. God help us!!


Congrats, Mrs. GP keep on trucking, you are doing great!

Maybe GP can do caffiene-free diet coke in a pinch  

Rooting for the two of you and your family  

Hugs, -A12


----------



## Chaparral

Ms. GP said:


> Well it's official tomorrow I celebrate six months of sobriety. I' m quitting smoking and GP is quitting diet coke. God help us!!


Don't be surprised if he gets caffiene withdrawal headaches. Nicotine withdrawal and caffiene withdrawal. Maybe you should have a withdrawal duel. Maybe an oiled up wrestling match...........boxing gloves..........Wild Turkey shots?


----------



## Ms. GP

Which one of you guys are gonna bail us out of the pokey after the fist a cuffs ensue?


----------



## Awakening2012

Chaparral said:


> Wild Turkey shots?


No,sorry but ix-nay on the booze shots. Maybe they can take up Yoga together  

Warmly, - A12


----------



## ReGroup

Congratulations to you both.

You know GP was the person to post on my thread? The GPs hold a special place in my heart.

Keep at it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

At the same time huh? The tension is going to be thick.

Don't like fisticuffs...think...hysterical bonding.


----------



## GutPunch

ReGroup said:


> Congratulations to you both.
> 
> 
> You know GP was the person to post on my thread? The GPs hold a special place in my heart.
> 
> Keep at it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's right I'm the original FAN.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

Yes you are.


----------



## Chaparral

I would pick ball room dancing, I hear those yoga instructors can be shady. Especially if you hear Machiavelli' s explanation of how yoga got started.
Unless of course Mrs. GP would like to lift weights...


----------



## Ms. GP

That's funny we actually do lift weights sometimes with our son. It's hilarious the boy and I use the same weights. He is seven and can squat more than me, but I can still bench press more than him ( for now). But me and GP argue over what music to listen to.


----------



## happyman64

Ms. GP said:


> Well it's official tomorrow I celebrate six months of sobriety. I' m quitting smoking and GP is quitting diet coke. God help us!!


I quit drinking Diet Coke to GP. My wife was so proud of me.

I switched to an alternative drink....










:lol:


----------



## Tron

OK, I guess will be the first to say I think it is kinda cool that you guys are doing it together. :smthumbup:

Good luck!


----------



## LongWalk

GP are you playing basketball again?
Are you going to allow Ms GP to get into endogenous morphine?
If you go out running together, who sets the pace?


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> GP are you playing basketball again?
> Are you going to allow Ms GP to get into endogenous morphine?
> If you go out running together, who sets the pace?


I quit bball when I became overloaded at work. Still hasn't slowed down. I set the pace running. She can't hang with me. 

I'm 2 and 0 as a youth football coach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I quit bball when I became overloaded at work. Still hasn't slowed down. I set the pace running. She can't hang with me.
> 
> I'm 2 and 0 as a youth football coach.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A young Nick Saban.


----------



## LongWalk

GutPunch said:


> I quit bball when I became overloaded at work. Still hasn't slowed down. I set the pace running. She can't hang with me.
> 
> I'm 2 and 0 as a youth football coach.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BW would be happy to hear about the good start.


----------



## Conrad

LongWalk said:


> BW would be happy to hear about the good start.


Mr. Winkle hit the road?


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> BW would be happy to hear about the good start.


All BW would want to know is if there were any fights at the games.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Mr. Winkle hit the road?


Afghanistan
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

For all you baseball enthusiasts, I just saw a no hitter live for a AA team.


----------



## Ms. GP

Yeah yesterday was awesome. GP and the boys won both of their games. The boys played really well. I was surprised how well actually. I picked up my six month chip and then we got to see a no hitter from the front row followed by some cool fireworks. 

On the downside quitting smoking sucks. The patches give me pretty bad nausea for about an hour after I put one on and the cravings for nicotine are much stronger than for opiates in my opinion. I had one this morning that woke me up out of a sound sleep. The crazy thing was I was still wearing a patch!! I had to change patches asap. 
A
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Yeah yesterday was awesome. GP and the boys won both of their games. The boys played really well. I was surprised how well actually. I picked up my six month chip and then we got to see a no hitter from the front row followed by some cool fireworks.
> 
> On the downside quitting smoking sucks. The patches give me pretty bad nausea for about an hour after I put one on and the cravings for nicotine are much stronger than for opiates in my opinion. I had one this morning that woke me up out of a sound sleep. The crazy thing was I was still wearing a patch!! I had to change patches asap.
> A
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Premedicate with 300mg of Ranitidine for the nausea.


----------



## Pam

I love Coke Zero! Need to give it up, but it's hard to quit.

A young woman who works for me is using Chantix to quit smoking. So far, so good; it has been about a week and a half. But she doesn't sleep much.


----------



## GutPunch

Pam said:


> I love Coke Zero! Need to give it up, but it's hard to quit.
> 
> A young woman who works for me is using Chantix to quit smoking. So far, so good; it has been about a week and a half. But she doesn't sleep much.


There needs to be a patch for diet coke.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> There needs to be a patch for diet coke.


:iagree:

We all have our addictions GP.

Glad the Mrs is quitting smoking.

HM


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> We all have our addictions GP.
> 
> Glad the Mrs is quitting smoking.
> 
> HM


Me too! 

Our little football team scored three touchdowns on their first three plays from scrimmage. The last was called back on a hold (referee sympathy). 

They gave up zero first downs in both games.


Not bad for a bunch of kids who still can't line up right.


----------



## Ms. GP

Hey Conrad. Thanks for the tip about ranitidine. It helps. The nausea and dizziness felt like motion sickness. I contemplated taking dramamine, but then I remembered it's not on my approved list of drugs through the drug testing folks. I thought I was s.o.l.. Didn't think about zantac. Still get the dizziness but the nausea is greatly reduced. It only lasts about an hour no big deal. Thanks man.


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> Hey Conrad. Thanks for the tip about ranitidine. It helps. The nausea and dizziness felt like motion sickness. I contemplated taking dramamine, but then I remembered it's not on my approved list of drugs through the drug testing folks. I thought I was s.o.l.. Didn't think about zantac. Still get the dizziness but the nausea is greatly reduced. It only lasts about an hour no big deal. Thanks man.


We take care of our own


----------



## Ms. GP

I just picked up the boy from school and one of his assignments was to draw a picture of his family. I asked what we were doing in the picture and he said, " Mommy is doing dishes, my sister is in bed, I'm playing video games, and Daddy is on the toilet taking a crap."

Ha ha. Out of the mouthes of babes GP!!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Ms. GP said:


> Hey Conrad. Thanks for the tip about ranitidine. It helps. The nausea and dizziness felt like motion sickness. I contemplated taking dramamine, but then I remembered it's not on my approved list of drugs through the drug testing folks. I thought I was s.o.l.. Didn't think about zantac. Still get the dizziness but the nausea is greatly reduced. It only lasts about an hour no big deal. Thanks man.


It is so great to have a pharmacist in the family. And two don't hurt as well.


----------



## Chaparral

Quiting smoking is easy..............I've quit at least a hundred times. About two months this time.


----------



## Ms. GP

Chaparral said:


> Quiting smoking is easy..............I've quit at least a hundred times. About two months this time.


Ha. Ha. That's funny man. Congrats on the two months. Please don't tell me you went cold turkey.


----------



## just got it 55

Ms. GP said:


> I just picked up the boy from school and one of his assignments was to draw a picture of his family. I asked what we were doing in the picture and he said, " Mommy is doing dishes, my sister is in bed, I'm playing video games, and Daddy is on the toilet taking a crap."
> 
> Ha ha. Out of the mouthes of babes GP!!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Holy Sh!t

Thats Funny


----------



## Tron

I was wondering myself about your boy. 

Do you really spend that much time on the crapper GP or are you on his $hit list right now cause Coach is making the boys run too many wind sprints?


----------



## zillard

Ms. GP said:


> Hey Conrad. Thanks for the tip about ranitidine. It helps. The nausea and dizziness felt like motion sickness. I contemplated taking dramamine, but then I remembered it's not on my approved list of drugs through the drug testing folks. I thought I was s.o.l.. Didn't think about zantac. Still get the dizziness but the nausea is greatly reduced. It only lasts about an hour no big deal. Thanks man.


I heard zantac can cause a false positive for meth. Might keep that in mind if you are doing UAs.


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> I heard zantac can cause a false positive for meth. Might keep that in mind if you are doing UAs.


40 mg of Famotidine would work the same magic.

I have had a workplace drug urinalysis while on Zantac with no issues.


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> I was wondering myself about your boy.
> 
> Do you really spend that much time on the crapper GP or are you on his $hit list right now cause Coach is making the boys run too many wind sprints?


Crapper? You mean my Fortress of Solitude!


----------



## GutPunch

42 - 0 I may have found my calling.

No mercy in my Dojo.


----------



## LongWalk

Excellent


----------



## Ms. GP

Well the boy got five 100% on his tests last week. I think I found mine too.


----------



## Tron

Awesome job GP...and Ms. GP too.

You two doing well otherwise?


----------



## oregonmom

How is the giving up smoking/diet coke going? I think it is awesome you guys did it together


----------



## GutPunch

oregonmom said:


> How is the giving up smoking/diet coke going? I think it is awesome you guys did it together


Smoking good.

Diet coke not so good. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

Good work on the smoking Ms GP!

I confess, I am both a Dr. Pepper/cherry Coke fiend and a smoker (yuck). I can see myself becoming an ex smoker for sure, but you'll pry my soda out from my cold dead hands . So I'm with you GP


----------



## Ms. GP

GutPunch said:


> Smoking good.
> 
> Diet coke not so good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well in a nutshell. That about sums it up, but if anyone cares for the extended version here goes. I was on the patch for about five days. The nausea in the morning from the patch was horrendous. I tried taking pepcid with it, but it was still rough. The cravings were still terrible too. At day five I was looking at other people's cigarette butts on the ground and contemplating picking them up (man, that's gross!!!) So, I cracked and bought a pack. I was really beating nyself up about it, and then having thoughts of if I can't quit this, then how am I gonna stay clean and sober. That freaked me out, but I talked about it at my continuing care group and with my sponsor. The group leader said, "first things first. Don't worry about it." My sponsor told me to quit whining and being such a baby and get some Chantix. (She said it a lot nicer than that  ) Well I listened to her, because I really wanted to quit right now, and telling me not to worry about something is like telling the sky not to be blue. I called my doc the next day, and it has worked like a miracle. Well in between this time, I told GP what happened and he was like well screw it, I'm getting a diet coke and has been guzzling them ever since. I don't give him any static about it. I know how hard it is, and I think he will quit when he is ready. He has to do it for himself, and I think he will.
As far as how are things going otherwise, I think we are in the middle of a long slow process. Overall, things are very calm, peaceful, and fun. We do lots of fun family things with the kids like going swimming. GP's football team is doing really well, and I love taking pictures of GP and the boys during the games. After the kids go to bed, most nights GP and I willwatch movies and eat ice cream on the couch which is fun. We also love that show Impractical Jokers.

But I'm not going to lie, we still have bad days. GP still struggles with being happy, but he is about to try something new, and I am super optimistic that this is the key that will unlock the door. I don't want to say what it is because I haven't asked his permission yet, and it may be something he doesn't want to talk about.
Overall, I think we are on a good path, but these things just take time.


----------



## happyman64

I was going to joke with you and say "Don't tell us, let me guess?" About what GP is going to try.

Then throw an image of a guy whipping himself on here. But when I went to google and saw all the sick pics my joke lost all meaning to me.

I am glad you are quitting smoking. Take one addiction at a time.

I am also glad gP has a winning team this year.

Keep working at it and not too much ice cream you two.....

HM


----------



## old timer

Ok, GP - fess up...
Are you finally gonna take belly-dancing lessons?
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

old timer said:


> Ok, GP - fess up...
> Are you finally gonna take belly-dancing lessons?
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No.....Maybe I could start a lawn mower theft ring? Need a good experienced partner.


----------



## oregonmom

I have heard from a lot of people that chantix is the way to go with smoking, and that is what I would like to do myself one day. (Warning, here come my excuses ) I'm currently uninsured and I know it costs an arm and a leg if you don't have it and I just don't have the proper motivation. It would help if my H stopped chewing. Hmmmm, maybe I'm a bit resentful about that 

It is a long slow process. I like that you two can enjoy simple stuff together, that really is big as silly as that sounds . Why am I not surprised you guys like that show?

I can't get a vision of you belly dancing out of my mind now GP. I hear it's great for the abs  Maybe it could be a great warm up for the football team, you know, suicides, hitting, then some belly dancing. Totally psyche the other team out, not that they need it winning 42-0


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> No.....Maybe I could start a lawn mower theft ring? Need a good experienced partner.


I hear the riding ones are in especially high demand these days.


----------



## Tron

Ms. GP said:


> But I'm not going to lie, we still have bad days. GP still struggles with being happy, but he is about to try something new, and I am super optimistic that this is the key that will unlock the door. I don't want to say what it is because I haven't asked his permission yet, and it may be something he doesn't want to talk about.
> Overall, I think we are on a good path, but these things just take time.


Yes they do. 

If it is any consolation, you two have a lot of folks around here praying for you.


----------



## GutPunch

happyman64 said:


> I was going to joke with you and say "Don't tell us, let me guess?" About what GP is going to try.
> 
> HM


Happy,

As usual you are all over it. After 25 years I was thinking of switching to the left hand.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Happy,
> 
> As usual you are all over it. After 25 years I was thinking of switching to the left hand.


:lol:


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Happy,
> 
> As usual you are all over it. After 25 years I was thinking of switching to the left hand.


Gotta even out the masturbatone


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Gotta even out the masturbatone


Is this some sort of band joke? Conrad did you play the masturbatone in high school?


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Is this some sort of band joke? Conrad did you play the masturbatone in high school?


Urban Dictionary: masturbatone


----------



## ReGroup

GP is trying to learn how to switch hit at his age?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Urban Dictionary: masturbatone


ROFLMAO....beats the gym. and I mean beats the hell out of it.


----------



## ReGroup

Just clicked on the link... My goodness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> ROFLMAO....beats the gym. and I mean beats the hell out of it.


Stealth wAnking gotta love it.


----------



## Ms. GP

Men are funny. You guys will remember to masturbate for an hour, then forget to floss your teeth.

I might wanna quit. I've heard people get banned for weiner jokes around here!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Conrad said:


> Urban Dictionary: masturbatone


Oh that is so clever....

Conrad your knowledge continues to astound me.


----------



## happyman64

Ms. GP said:


> Men are funny. You guys will remember to masturbate for an hour, then forget to floss your teeth.
> 
> I might wanna quit. I've heard people get banned for weiner jokes around here!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And how do you know we aren't flossing for that entire hour???

No peeking Ms GP..


----------



## Ms. GP

happyman64 said:


> And how do you know we aren't flossing for that entire hour???
> 
> No peeking Ms GP..


Good one. Ha ha. I hope your wife checks your internet history. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

You have to switch hands every once in a while, doesn't that make it crooked if you don't?


----------



## Ms. GP

I too believe in good oral hygiene. 

GP knocking on the door- What is that buzzing sound?

Me- Uhh. My tooth brush.

GP- Hey???!! You don't have an electric tooth brush!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

Ms. GP said:


> I too believe in good oral hygiene.
> 
> GP knocking on the door- What is that buzzing sound?
> 
> Me- Uhh. My tooth brush.
> 
> GP- Hey???!! You don't have an electric tooth brush!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Weird that she brushes her teeth in bed at 2 am while I'm trying to sleeping. Who does that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch, where the hell are you?

Football can't be taking ALL your time. You know I live my life through vicariously.

I hope that the kids are in bed and you and Mrs. GP are playing a session of Little Bo Peep meets the angry traffic cop....

BW


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Punch, where the hell are you?
> 
> Football can't be taking ALL your time. You know I live my life through vicariously.
> 
> I hope that the kids are in bed and you and Mrs. GP are playing a session of Little Bo Peep meets the angry traffic cop....
> 
> BW


Moose Man, 

I don't post on the TAM as much anymore. Old faces disappearing and my life is moving on. I am still patiently waiting for Mrs. ReGroup to get served. Definitely will stick around for that. I do occasionally try to help some sad sap from time to time on here. 

You know the guy. My wife left to go to work this morning wearing fishnet stockings and crotchless panties. I know she would never cheat on me but I think she may be having an emotional affair with her boss at work.

My little football team is special. I don't know what happened but this team is going all the way. In two games and two scrimmage games they have yet to be scored on and every little boy has got to play. Amazing that we only won three games last year. I guess this makes up for that sh*tty baseball team my son had to endure. If you don't believe in Karma, I don't know how to convince you. Could be my coaching. IDK?

I hope you and Frostine can come to some kind of civil solution for your sake. I couldn't imagine what you are going thru being away from the Penguin. 

Remember BW if you ever want to shoot women and children from a helicopter DO NOT LEAD THEM AS MUCH.


----------



## old timer

Even less if it's some dude riding a lawnmower

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Great advice, GP. LOL, OT.

I hear you, Punch, I of course WAS that guy whose wife was going to work in the fishnets and having an EA/PA with boss man.

Congrats on your football acumen, Karma is real.

GP, best of luck with all of it, don't blow it now.

BW


----------



## Conrad

old timer said:


> Even less if it's some dude riding a lawnmower
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't you mean stealing a lawnmower?


----------



## old timer

It's my flipping lawnmower. 



.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

That's not what she said.


----------



## GutPunch

If wasn't for that lawnmower, Assad probably wouldn't have had to use chemical weapons against his own people.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> If wasn't for that lawnmower, Assad probably wouldn't have had to use chemical weapons against his own people.


In his interview with Dennis Kucinich, I distinctly heard Assad mention that lawnmower as part of his decision-making process.

The sneer that curled his lips when Kucinich mentioned Donald Duck was simply priceless.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> In his interview with Dennis Kucinich, I distinctly heard Assad mention that lawnmower as part of his decision-making process.
> 
> The sneer that curled his lips when Kucinich mentioned Donald Duck was simply priceless.


quacked me up!


----------



## GutPunch

Son says girls keep chasing him on the playground. He asks me what he should do.

RUN I said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Ms. GP's refusal to talk to me about the affair is becoming unsettling to me. I ask she shuts down and says I have already talked about this and I'm moving forward.

Is this lack of remorse, protecting herself from her own shame or me living in the past.

What say you?



Garden Gnome is on cheaterville finally.


----------



## Tron

A couple of questions first.

How much have you discussed already?

Why and what else do you want to know?

How are you likely to react? Be honest. And how much more detail do you want?

How does she think you are going to react?

I think I understand her shutting down on this subject. Try and start slow. First ask her why she won't discuss it with you. Give her some time to collect her thoughts. And then she absolutely will have to explain that to you. 

MS. GP, if you are reading..."We have already discussed this" is not enough. It is avoidance. This is a first step to a process that absolutely has to happen. As painful as it is going to be FOR BOTH OF YOU, it simply has to happen. There are some things out there that will eat away at the love you two have and eventually destroy it. This is one of those things. I am sorry, it just is. 

There may be a way for GP to get past it without all the gory details, but that is an individual thing and different things work for different people.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Ms. GP's refusal to talk to me about the affair is becoming unsettling to me. I ask she shuts down and says I have already talked about this and I'm moving forward.
> 
> Is this lack of remorse, protecting herself from her own shame or me living in the past.
> 
> What say you?
> 
> 
> 
> Garden Gnome is on cheaterville finally.


----------



## familyfirst09

I reiterate Tron's questions...what all do you know?
I can't imagine what you are going thru, I hope your kiddos are doing okay. Ummm was the comment about the crotchless panties a joke? Lol. 

Congrats on cheaterville, bout damn time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

Hi GP,

What won't she talk about exactly? What do you feel like you don't know about yet? Do you feel like she is still lying about things?

My H doesn't like to talk about it either. I get "I don't remember" a lot which is really frustrating for me. I admit, I was an awesome detective and it pissed me off that I could know more than the person who was there. Wtf, right? Just talking in general terms, addicts want to forget what they are ashamed about so they can, we are obsessed (or at least were at one point if we aren't anymore) and remember everything. And all that sh!t that didn't make sense at the time does now and quite frankly pisses us the hell off. Idk, that's how I feel about it at least. A lot of times I'm more mad at myself than I am at H for how I behaved, reacted and the denial I was in.

I kind of wonder why you decided to post him on cheaterville now? Not saying he didn't deserve it by any means. Was it because you are feeling like she doesn't want to talk about it or...?


----------



## BK23

Yeah, I happened to see him while checking out JS's posting there. Yikes. I know it's cold comfort, bud dude looks like complete sh!t.


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> A couple of questions first.
> 
> How much have you discussed already?
> 
> Some
> 
> Why and what else do you want to know?
> 
> IDK
> 
> How are you likely to react? Be honest. And how much more detail do you want?
> 
> IDK
> 
> How does she think you are going to react?
> 
> IDK


I tell you even in the beginning she would shut down. She is not telling me something and it is eating away at me. I guess the shutting down and refusing is what bothers me the most.


----------



## GutPunch

oregonmom said:


> Hi GP,
> 
> Do you feel like she is still lying about things?
> 
> Only about the bacon.
> 
> I kind of wonder why you decided to post him on cheaterville now?
> 
> In the beginning, I was just too busy and tired to put the effort in. I remember DDAy night wanting to physically intervene in the situation but my rational brain telling me don't you may lose your kids. I chose the kids. Now I am stronger. Now I am less tired physically and emotionally and I was in between jobs at work.
> 
> Not saying he didn't deserve it by any means. Was it because you are feeling like she doesn't want to talk about it or...?
> 
> Absolutely not.....People who know me here know this was a long time coming


The best way to describe it is this. Reconciliation is like a roller coaster. In my case when all is well with me everythings great. When I hit a low point....she shuts down and is distant. Is that fair to me?


----------



## oregonmom

Only about the bacon, lol 

Understood about why now. Makes sense. I've never been that angry with my OW. She's just a fvcked up nutter. So I've never had that urge to post her...I know I'm in the minority on that.

I saw a lot of idk's to Tron's questions, I feel that way a lot too. I just know I still feel sh!tty about it sometimes so there must be more H needs to do. Maybe explore that more with your IC and MC. If you have more specific questions they might be easier for her to talk about. Like I said tho, I am in that same place a lot so I'm just tossing out ideas.


----------



## Tron

First of all, I am sorry for you that she has not been forthcoming about things. 

I was hoping that she could get her thoughts wrapped around it on her own. I think that is important for her to be able to look at herself in that way but not critical. I thought about PMing this to you, but might as well let you know what this is about.

1st. : SHAME. This guy was a huge step down and she got duped. He isn't even on the same planet as you. I know it, you know it, and she knows it. That plus she was high. She is probably absolutely disgusted with herself and the whole ordeal. She would just as soon not have to remember the details. Do you want to go there or make her go there? Honestly, that should be up to you to decide, not her. And to be fair you may need to go back to it any number of times and hear the same story to have it finally process. That is natural. Thing is, I don't know if going there and forcing her to deal with details is something that could cause relapse or not. Or how you handle the fact that you two were separated for part of that time. There may have been multiple men??? Weigh that for yourself and maybe discuss with her IC. Bottom line is that she should be forthcoming until you are satisfied...it is the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

2nd. : FEAR AND TO PROTECT THE RELATIONSHIP. I am confident that she feels that if she gives you all the details, or if you make her go through it 10 times or 50 times, knowing how and who you are, that you won't love her or want her any more and this R that she so desperately wants and prays for will end in failure. She will be less in your eyes. It may not be so much that she did wild and different things with him or that they F'd like rabbits for one brilliant night. Whatever happened, it was over QUICKLY and it happened at the absolute lowest point of her life. If she gives you the details that you want and you reject her, that low that she had last year will be Mt Everest compared to this. Contemplate starting this R with such hope and and then having everything collapse, knowing that she has completely and finally lost you (and maybe the kids) for good. That is a heavy burden.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> The best way to describe it is this. Reconciliation is like a roller coaster. In my case when all is well with me everythings great. When I hit a low point....she shuts down and is distant. Is that fair to me?


An Overview of the Drama Triangle

Be careful of this.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> An Overview of the Drama Triangle
> 
> Be careful of this.


Point taken.....Please retract the persecutional language from the above post.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Point taken.....Please retract the persecutional language from the above post.


I'm sure she's afraid when distant.

What makes her feel safe?


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> The best way to describe it is this. Reconciliation is like a roller coaster. In my case when all is well with me everythings great. When I hit a low point....she shuts down and is distant. Is that fair to me?


Conrad caught it, but yes you two need to stay out of the drama triangle. It really can be viscious...and destructive. 

You need these things from her in order to fully process what has happened, but let's face it, she doesn't want to disappoint you GP. She knows that going there and discussing these things will do that. I am not going to lie to you. It is going to hurt you! And by hurting you it hurts her. 

When you go low, she senses that the relationship is back on shaky ground and she goes into self preservation mode and pulls back. That is fear...and that comes from her FOO.

Be supportive, firm, and give her the reassurance she needs. For her, she needs to be honest with you and remorseful, and be your emotional support, because you are gonna need a shoulder to cry on. 

I hope she can do it for you and not think less of you when it's done. 

Living proof here that it is possible and that you wind up with something a lot stronger and a lot more meaningful than when you started.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> Ms. GP's refusal to talk to me about the affair is becoming unsettling to me. I ask she shuts down and says I have already talked about this and I'm moving forward.
> 
> *Is this lack of remorse, protecting herself from her own shame or me living in the past.
> *
> What say you?
> 
> 
> 
> Garden Gnome is on cheaterville finally.


I think from what I have seen of Mrs GP she shows remorse differently or maybe a better word is privately.

And yes she is probably protecting herself from further shame and only you can decide if you are living in the past.

You both have to give yourselves more time GP.

These issues take time to resolve, to improve and to finally forgive.

HM


----------



## GutPunch

Tron said:


> Conrad caught it, but yes you two need to stay out of the drama triangle. It really can be viscious...and destructive.
> 
> You need these things from her in order to fully process what has happened, but let's face it, she doesn't want to disappoint you GP. She knows that going there and discussing these things will do that. I am not going to lie to you. It is going to hurt you!
> 
> Believe me, there is nothing she could say that could possibly hurt more than the anguish I felt for my children that day almost one year ago. Akin to finding out Santa isn't real. A piece of innocence is lost to never return.
> 
> When you go low, she senses that the relationship is back on shaky ground and she goes into self preservation mode and pulls back. That is fear...and that comes from her FOO.
> 
> Don't know what a FOO is but yes this is her patented response. That fear is irrational and stems from things in her past.
> 
> Be supportive, firm, and give her the reassurance she needs. For her, she needs to be honest with you and remorseful, and be your emotional support, because you are gonna need a shoulder to cry on.
> 
> That is what is missing I think. I support her recovery leaving work watching kids for the meetings. My recovery is fake it til you make it. I have no shoulder to cry on. I need my Grandmother back.
> 
> I hope she can do it for you and not think less of you when it's done.
> 
> Living proof here that it is possible and that you wind up with something a lot stronger and a lot more meaningful than when you started.


----------



## Conrad

You need some telephone time?


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> I think from what I have seen of Mrs GP she shows remorse differently or maybe a better word is privately.
> 
> And yes she is probably protecting herself from further shame and only you can decide if you are living in the past.
> 
> You both have to give yourselves more time GP.
> 
> These issues take time to resolve, to improve and to finally forgive.
> 
> HM


Does this sound a little similar to brokenshadow's situation? One day at a time friend.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> You need some telephone time?


On the way to football!


----------



## GutPunch

tom67 said:


> Does this sound a little similar to brokenshadow's situation? One day at a time friend.


Tom

Ms. GP. is in much better shape than Broken Shadow's wife. Their elevators are headed in different directions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Tron said:


> First of all, I am sorry for you that she has not been forthcoming about things.
> 
> I was hoping that she could get her thoughts wrapped around it on her own. I think that is important for her to be able to look at herself in that way but not critical. I thought about PMing this to you, but might as well let you know what this is about.
> 
> 1st. : SHAME. This guy was a huge step down and she got duped. He isn't even on the same planet as you. I know it, you know it, and she knows it. That plus she was high. She is probably absolutely disgusted with herself and the whole ordeal. She would just as soon not have to remember the details. Do you want to go there or make her go there? Honestly, that should be up to you to decide, not her. And to be fair you may need to go back to it any number of times and hear the same story to have it finally process. That is natural. Thing is, I don't know if going there and forcing her to deal with details is something that could cause relapse or not. Or how you handle the fact that you two were separated for part of that time. There may have been multiple men??? Weigh that for yourself and maybe discuss with her IC. Bottom line is that she should be forthcoming until you are satisfied...it is the nature of the beast, unfortunately.
> 
> 2nd. : FEAR AND TO PROTECT THE RELATIONSHIP. I am confident that she feels that if she gives you all the details, or if you make her go through it 10 times or 50 times, knowing how and who you are, that you won't love her or want her any more and this R that she so desperately wants and prays for will end in failure. She will be less in your eyes. It may not be so much that she did wild and different things with him or that they F'd like rabbits for one brilliant night. Whatever happened, it was over QUICKLY and it happened at the absolute lowest point of her life. If she gives you the details that you want and you reject her, that low that she had last year will be Mt Everest compared to this. Contemplate starting this R with such hope and and then having everything collapse, knowing that she has completely and finally lost you (and maybe the kids) for good. That is a heavy burden.


:iagree: I would have written something along these lines. Whatever happened during this period was nothing beautiful for her. And if there was any pleasure it was short lived and disgusted her.

I think if you simply ask her to tell you all with complete honesty at some point in the future she will make and keep the promise. However, she will fulfill it either when she is feeling down at the age of 62 and it will sink you both down again, not forever but for a long time. Or perhaps in the future you will be both be so strong, especially since your kids are going to do well in life, that one day she will tell you some part of it that once pained her and but now makes her laugh.

You will also laugh, but you will later be sad again and then forgive her and not probe for more. You'll be content.

I asked you a couple of times about Cheaterville. Your fear of the possible consequences is rational. I don't think he'll dare reply in kind. I hope it stings him professionally and socially, but I imagine a lot of people know he is slimy and has six or seven small hearts that pump cold green blood.

For a second I thought, "Wow, gonna ask GP for the link, but in the same moment I lost my desire to see it." I don't even plan to search for it. I know you both too well to enjoy the read. Maybe if it is a resounding success and and there are many witty comments, flaying him alive and then rolling him in salt, I'll change my mind.

I think you will find peace. You first and then Ms GP.


----------



## Conrad

LongWalk said:


> :iagree: I would have written something along these lines. Whatever happened during this period was nothing beautiful for her. And if there was any pleasure it was short lived and disgusted her.
> 
> I think if you simply ask her to tell you all with complete honesty at some point in the future she will make and keep the promise. However, she will fulfill it either when she is feeling down at the age of 62 and it will sink you both down again, not forever but for a long time. Or perhaps in the future you will be both be so strong, especially since your kids are going to do well in life, that one day she will tell you some part of it that once pained her and but now makes her laugh.
> 
> You will also laugh, but you will later be sad again and then forgive her and not probe for more. You'll be content.
> 
> I asked you a couple of times about Cheaterville. Your fear of the possible consequences is rational. I don't think he'll dare reply in kind. I hope it stings him professionally and socially, but I imagine a lot of people know he is slimy and has six or seven small hearts that pump cold green blood.
> 
> For a second I thought, "Wow, gonna ask GP for the link, but in the same moment I lost my desire to see it." I don't even plan to search for it. I know you both too well to enjoy the read. Maybe if it is a resounding success and and there are many witty comments, flaying him alive and then rolling him in salt, I'll change my mind.
> 
> I think you will find peace. You first and then Ms GP.


Not so for the Gnome


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Believe me, there is nothing she could say that could possibly hurt more than the anguish I felt for my children that day almost one year ago. Akin to finding out Santa isn't real. A piece of innocence is lost to never return.


I hope that is true. She needs to hear this and be reassured that whatever she does tell you won't make you think about her any differently. I think she feels that what she is hiding is going to make things worse between you two. 




GutPunch said:


> That is what is missing I think. I support her recovery leaving work watching kids for the meetings.


That in my mind is more like material support, the kind of support that we men give ourselves credit for, but that our women simply expect but don't always appreciate. The support you give her, that she needs, in order to feel comfortable sharing those details with you is emotional. 

I am not quite so talented with the prose as LW. But what he is talking about is emotional security. The type of security that shows that you are strong enough to handle it without buckling. That you are too invested, too committed, too secure to let it break your bond.

I sense this may be where your disconnect is. Understandably so.




GutPunch said:


> My recovery is fake it til you make it. I have no shoulder to cry on. I need my Grandmother back.


I am so sorry GP, that really makes me sad. You need a "safe person".

I know that NMMNG and MMSLP are kind of like a bible around here and this goes against what it preaches, but can MS. GP become that shoulder for you? Is there any way that can happen? At least temporarily or until you guys are on firmer ground. It could bring you two closer. 

Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part, and maybe also a little worrisome because we are getting into that shady area bordering on co-dependence...


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Not so for the Gnome


Funny you should say that because I think him weasling back his girlfriend is what triggered me into the cheaterville post. I saw that big smile on his gnome face with his old gf in tow and I just wanted to smash it. I swear societal rules can be such a burden.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

I think murderous fantasies are a normal part of the male human psyche. Even those stupid Harry Potter books are full of revenge, torture and death. In the back of him mind, the gnome has a little fear that you are some good old boy who will sneak up and whale the life out of him.

You should send him a Halloween card at Christmas every year.


----------



## oregonmom

GutPunch said:


> Funny you should say that because I think him weasling back his girlfriend is what triggered me into the cheaterville post. I saw that big smile on his gnome face with his old gf in tow and I just wanted to smash it. I swear societal rules can be such a burden.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey GP,
I guess this is what I was trying to get at with my earlier post - it never left your mind and you always wanted to, but something triggered it. Nothing wrong with that! GG is a predator, I get that. I wasn't trying to question you or say what you did was wrong, just trying to figure out if there was a bit of a deeper thing behind it. Makes total sense. If I found out something like OW was in another affair or she started contacting my H again, all hell would probably break loose.


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> Funny you should say that because I think him weasling back his girlfriend is what triggered me into the cheaterville post. I saw that big smile on his gnome face with his old gf in tow and I just wanted to smash it. I swear societal rules can be such a burden.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How does that song go "a log haired leaping gnome"


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Funny you should say that because I think him weasling back his girlfriend is what triggered me into the cheaterville post. I saw that big smile on his gnome face with his old gf in tow and I just wanted to smash it. I swear societal rules can be such a burden.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He got her back?


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> He got her back?


Yep
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

All joking aside, I know everyone on CWI espouses full disclosure, but some psychiatrists/psychologists don't necessarily. And those that don't are not necessarily worthless counselors. I guess it may depend somewhat on circumstances.

Knowing that there are two strategies, for me, by the time I got to IC we had been in trickle truth mode for a month or so already. Coincidently full disclosure had already happened by the time I went into IC (at about 6 weeks past dday) and there wasn't any more to tell. Maybe the psych suggested I stop off hand because he understood the damage of trickle truth. I don't really know. It was a long time ago and I never asked.

I do know that when the pressure is on and you disclose, it is best to go ahead and disclose it all. A story that changes every other day is infinitely more damaging to trust and to healing.

You married a divorcee with a lot of psychological baggage, so your views about what is acceptable or not may not be as rigid as you or she make out.

Maybe Longwalk's suggestion will work for you guys. It wouldn't have worked for mrs Tron. Regardless, there has to be some dialogue. Stonewalling just won't cut it. The long term damage is too great and too certain.


----------



## tom67

That doesn't say much about her, sad. Small threadjack Conrad the rams really suck.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Yep
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:cussing:


----------



## tom67

Gut last I looked almost 20,000 hits.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Yep
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Send her the Cheaterville link.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> Send her the Cheaterville link.


:lol::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## tom67

20,193 hits and counting.:smthumbup:


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Send her the Cheaterville link.


I told her once that's all I owe her.


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> I told her once that's all I owe her.


I'll send the link if you want. I don't care I helped disenchanted and cantthinkstraight doing that the replies were quite amusing


----------



## GutPunch

tom67 said:


> 20,193 hits and counting.:smthumbup:


lol....he'll be between McConaughey & Damon on google search.


----------



## GutPunch

tom67 said:


> I'll send the link if you want. I don't care I helped disenchanted and cantthinkstraight doing that the replies were quite amusing


She made her bed.


----------



## Ms. GP

Well I screwed the pooch tonight. I waited until the kids went to bed to discuss things and a big fight ensued. The reason I didn't want to discuss things earlier was because I didn't have the time to devote to it right then and I didn't want to discuss things in front of our daughter. There have to be some boundaries here in my opinion. Both the IC's and the Mc are saying not to discuss things over and over and not to discuss intimate details. I have answered everything many times over. I admit I don't have all the answers here. I'm far from perfect and learning as I go. This is hard. I don't always say and do the right things but I am trying.

I'm worried GP is engaging in some unhealthy behaviors. I think the cheaterville thing is just inviting chaos into our lives. Yes I realize I set that ball in motion, but why keep it going? I think looking up the man on Facebook is unhealthy. What good can come out of it? I'm notprotecting this man. I ddon't give a rats azz about the website, but how can we move forward with the constant chaos? I also think GP has been hanging with some of "the misery loves company" crowd here on tam and it is bringing him down. I'm not referring to everyone on tam but we have all seen the small percentage here content to wallow in their own misery. I'm not trying to point the finger at him. I'm just concerned. I do want to help him recover. I have tried to do that. I watch the girl while he coatches football. I go to Mc and try really hard to be an active participant. I would gladly watch the kids if he ever decides to attend another alanon meeting. It's all very confusing. I'll be honest, I don't know what to do but I am trying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

We didn't discuss shyt. She's mad I posted him on cheaterville. Says I'm this miserable person and you all know me, I haven't been miserable since this time last year. I literally got a Just Get Over It speech. That my IC sux and I lie to her and that I refuse to do any work to heal.

I left and I'm speechless. 

All because I posted that schmuck on Cheaterville.


----------



## Ms. GP

I'm sorry you feel that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Ms. GP said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:lol:

Did Conrad yell you to say that???

Come on you two.

Talk. To. Each. Other.

Face to face and not over TAM.

You both have valid concerns. Air them out in a healthy way.

No yelling. No screaming. No threatening and No Posturing.

You both have the same goals in the end so work together.

And while I understand MS GP's comment about not wanting the OM in your lives in anyway sometimes the BS has to take a shot at exercising the demons out of their marriage in their own way.

So talk to each other and work it out. Reconciliation is about compromise, honesty and opening up to the issues at hand.

And both of you remember that tomorrow is another day.

HM


----------



## GutPunch

Ms. GP said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I AM NOT OK WITH THIS.


----------



## tom67

If it helped you posting him I don't see why she would have a problem with that. Like HM said communicate.


----------



## GutPunch

tom67 said:


> If it helped you posting him I don't see why she would have a problem with that. Like HM said communicate.


I don't understand it either. I was giggling like a school girl when I did it. 

She's either protecting the OM or hiding from the shame of it all.


----------



## Ms. GP

GutPunch said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> I AM NOT OK WITH THIS.


That's your opinion! 

I don't care about the post. I just want to keep moving forward. Things are good. Don't screw it up GP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Hmm well can you get a relative to babysit the kids this weekend for a little alone time it's just a suggestion maybe hit a holiday inn or something.


----------



## tom67

Roll tide!


----------



## GutPunch

tom67 said:


> Roll tide!


We college edumacated

War Eagle
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

Ms GP,

Ugh, I hope I am not one of those sad sacks. 

Let him go blow off steam. He needs it.

You need to let the cheaterville thing go. He has been stewing over this very thing for a long time. If it is now finally out of his system then this is one less negative thing occupying his thoughts. That will be healthy IMO. You may think it brings chaos, I think it may be cathartic to exact his pound of flesh out of that azzhole. I am sure he dreams about doing a lot worse.

Your insistence on boundaries and timing IS healthy. GP needs to respect that. These things shouldn't be discussed in front of your DD. She will have a tough enough time dealing mentally with the separation and your rehab time as it is. 

You also have to know that any statement by you that even sounds like "just get over it" will not be well received. Regardless of what you actually may have said tonight that is what he heard. So...

Ahhhh. Details. No easy answer for you there. My W asked too and it was just an ONS. You should understand that without them and just the fact that they are being intentionally withheld will lead him to think the worst of the worst. That is human nature.

As far as rehashing, you two have been together under the same roof again for what, 4 months now? Not very long. Been in your shoes and I know it feels like forever. R is hard and healing is a process. It takes time.

Oh yeah, and what HM said!


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> That's your opinion!
> 
> I don't care about the post. I just want to keep moving forward. Things are good. Don't screw it up GP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Own it dear.

It's a process.

There are no free passes.


----------



## LongWalk

Ms GP, I wonder if JS's thread may have been a trigger. Background: JS is pretty accomplished professional. His wife is an attorney. Their marriage has been dead for a year, with her sleeping in another room. During this sexless at war marriage, which did not end because they have small children and are ambitious parents, she began to cheat with a Princeton University tax expert.

So BS came to TAM, and being college educated and smart, took the coaching and alphaed up. He decided to Cheaterville the lover, a very vulgar move for people in this socio economic class. It worked like a dream. No, they have not successfully reconciled but the lover, who wanted the wife to divorce and marry him, had to back off.

JS managed to up his sex ranking, despite being an poor husband. Sadly he has not been able to say that he loves his wife. We can only see that he is jealous and hates the idea of losing him. The romantic in us want see that he can find his love and express it successfully to her. This is the type of TAM story that excites people because of its rapid dramatic progress.

GP may be feeling regret at not playing the Cheaterville move more deeply than ever after reading this thread. Go read it and think about it a bit.

As to Cheaterville, well men are always thinking of sex. That's the way we are and the desire for revenge is enormous. The Count of Monte Cristo is enormously satisfying to read, even for a little boy. Boys/men play over their victories and defeats, trying to learn.

The things GP did that he considered failures, I did not see. He explained why and I accepted that he is bit of a perfectionist. I am sure that whatever projects he works on he double checks the math and checks again. Be happy that he is the guy who would naturally become a leader in military situation. That is the guy you married.

Also, don't forget people who quit Coke Zero can be erratic for awhile. Hope you are still off the cigs and running.


----------



## Tron

Ms. GP said:


> That's your opinion!
> 
> I don't care about the post. I just want to keep moving forward. Things are good. Don't screw it up GP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here's the rub dear. Every so often, I ask GP how he is doing. He readily gives you credit for working hard. But where he is concerned, the answer is always 'fake it til you make it'. Not 'better', not 'chugging along', not 'making progress'...

After 6 months, this should be a concern to you. It is to me. While you may be working hard, it isn't necessarily working well. Not for him. It is an indication that things are not 'good'. There are doors that remain closed to you. That needs to change. 

Cheaterville put him in a good mood. Let's see where that goes.

If things come to a standstill again, a different approach may be warranted.


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> The Count of Monte Cristo is enormously satisfying to read, even for a little boy.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> My favorite book I read as a child.


----------



## torn2012

Are you happy GP?


----------



## Ms. GP

No Tron, I do not think you are a misery loves company person. I appreciate your feedback. I will let the Cheaterville thing go. I still don't think it's the healthiest thing in the world to do, but there are far worse things that could happen. I don't have to be right about this one. If it helps him then great. I just wanted to express to him that mabye he should protect himself from triggers a little more. I guess it came out like get over it. I understand that many can't be avoided, but to maybe look at some of the one's that can. Like for me, I think going to a bar might be a trigger for me to drink, so I don't go. Yes there are alcohol advertisements everywhere, but I still try to avoid what I can. 

The problem that has plagued our entire marriage is we have never learned to successfully resolve conflict. Problems are either swept under the rug and ignored or we fight and hurt each other's feelings. When a problem occurs, he appears to me to be very angry and defensive and I shut down and try to escape. Either by physically removing myself from the situation or escaping with drugs( in the past). This of course feels very cold to GP. So I have been trying to force myself to hang in and fight because I desperately want to change this pattern of my behavior. However, it feels to me things just escalate and I am being handed a lot of low blows. ( comparisons to my mother, threats of divorce, etc) I don't know what to do anymore. I just feel lost and horribly inadequate.


----------



## Conrad

Do you understand codependence and what it is?

Have you and Punch ever discussed "#3's"?


----------



## Ms. GP

I feel I have a working understanding of codependency. Don't know what the other one is.


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> I feel I have a working understanding of codependency. Don't know what the other one is.


Then I apologize for not talking of it earlier. I really enjoy seeing you two banter back and forth, but I tend to forget you showed up with your penis jokes only 50 pages back

In his book Awareness, Anthony DeMello speaks of the ways we interact to give pleasure (now, this isn't going to be steamy, so don't panic).

1) We give pleasure to ourselves - this may involve pursuing a hobby, exercise, making a purchase of something we want. This makes us feel good to care for ourselves.

2) We give pleasure to others - best example is Mother Theresa. A life given to others from dawn to dusk. Keep in mind, for it to qualify as a #2, giving pleasure to others MUST make us feel good about ourselves. If nothing comes in return, we're still ok doing it.

3) We give pleasure to others and it makes us FEEL BAD about ourselves. Quite often, we justify this by dreaming of some future payoff - perhaps appreciation, increased love, etc. COMING FROM SOMEONE ELSE. When that anticipated result does not materialize, resentment, anger, shutting down, etc. is often the result. This is the very essence of codependent behavior and poor personal boundaries.

Eliminate #3's from your relationships and they improve almost overnite


----------



## zillard

Ms. GP said:


> That's your opinion!
> 
> I don't care about the post. I just want to keep moving forward. Things are good. *Don't screw it up GP.*


I can't speak for GP, but for me that last sentence was a trigger. 

It is a command, not a request. 

When I first read it I heard my X's voice. My first thought was, "how dare you issue commands - you are in no position to do so. If anyone should here, it is ME, damit!"

Communication is very important. There are many subtleties that should not be overlooked. How we frame a statement and the punctuation and inflections we use have more impact than we realize. 



Ms. GP said:


> it feels to me things just escalate and I am being handed a lot of low blows.


^ This is better. You share your feelings, inform him of something you don't like. That should give him something to focus on, should he choose to do so. An area to improve. 

Commands, demands and blame dump you into the drama triangle.

But pulling back and not communicating can do more damage. 

If concerned about D hearing, how about: "I would like to discuss this after D goes down. Is that ok?" But be careful of tone of voice as it is very easy to sound snide and sarcastic when emotions are high. 

Absent that statement and REQUEST, silence could easily be interpreted as indifference or apathy.

Like the Tool song:

Cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion between supposed lovers.


----------



## Ms. GP

Thanks for the feedback Zillard. 

Note to self - sarcasm does not convey through a computer screen. Doh!!!

GP and I trade sarcastic banter back and forth all the time. We have pet names for each other like doofus and turd munch. Heck, I call one of the kids Pooter. 
But I will admit my communication skills definitely have room for improvement. I didn't even think to say let's wait until the kids go to bed and talk about this later. What came out was more like,' I can't talk about this.' I see in hindsight how hurtful this appeared. I'm a work in progress here. This whole communication thing is new and I'm trying to learn as I go and not beat myself up too bad when I stumble. Hope this makes sense.


----------



## zillard

Ms. GP said:


> I'm a work in progress here.


Me too! That's the best anyone can be.

'Two steps forward, one step back' is a great place to be. 



Ms. GP said:


> This whole communication thing is new and I'm trying to learn as I go and not beat myself up too bad when I stumble. Hope this makes sense.


It makes perfect sense. I feel the same way.

It took a lot of pain for me to realize I sucked at communicating. Not easy for me to accept, especially having a degree in communication. :slap:

I incorrectly applied the 'less is more' principle to my personal relationships. It looked more like 'pull back and shut up/down'.

The objective of 'less is more' is to simplify by removing the unnecessary garbage (even if it looks/sounds important at the time). But you have to keep the meat - the one important thing that needs to be communicated. 

Otherwise you have so many condiments slathered on that you couldn't even taste the meat if it was there.


----------



## Tron

Ms. GP said:


> *Don't screw it up GP.*


I caught that too Z. Those statements/orders won't be well received. It's blameshifting in disguise and will cause things to escalate.




zillard said:


> Communication is very important. There are many subtleties that should not be overlooked. How we frame a statement and the punctuation and inflections we use have more impact than we realize.
> 
> You share your feelings, inform him of something you don't like. That should give him something to focus on, should he choose to do so. An area to improve.
> 
> But pulling back and not communicating can do more damage.
> 
> Be careful of tone of voice as it is very easy to sound snide and sarcastic when emotions are high.


:iagree: I like this a lot! 


And it is so funny Z that you should mention "keep the meat". I was working on a similar post when this popped up. The cleaned up version is that TAM for me has been an eye opening experience in communication.

Arguments with the W prior to 6 months ago were always loaded with old superfluous crap. I feel I am now able to remain calm and listen. Like Z, I tune right in to the nature of the grievance, "the meat", as soon as I hear it. Deal with the meat and the rest just goes away. 

The W and I used to have arguments that lasted days, weeks even. Absolutely miserable.


----------



## oregonmom

Communication is huge here. So I'd assume that you guys don't have boundaries firmly in place, not that it is an easy thing to do . You are in MC though, and I think that that would be a perfect place to start making them. A moderator is very helpful for that. 

A good example of one is Ms GP doesn't want to talk about stuff in front of the kids. I understand this, I don't like to in front of mine either. You guys can talk about why each of you feel one way or the other in front of your MC, come to an agreement, then when something comes up a gentle reminder will suffice instead of either giving a million reasons why or why not or shutting down. Sometimes it just can't wait. Waiting makes the anger boil up then all hell breaks loose. If that is the case, communicate I'm just going to get more angry about this if we don't talk now, and have a plan to keep the kids occupied for a little while while you talk about it. 

You can't plan for everything, but there are probably patterns of things each of you don't like and that come up more often than others. If you have a plan and boundaries in place for when that stuff comes up and it's much easier to handle. Have you guys seen the skit with Ross Matthews, I think it was from Leno, and when he was uncomfortable he'd say his safe word pineapple? It's funny as sh!t, but it works . I like having the silly word with it too, it takes the edge off.

I am well versed in sarcastic banter lol. My H and I do it all the time and I don't care if he calls me PITA or whatever cause I know it's not coming from a bad place. If we just had a fight tho, I do not take kindly to it. He'll say, geesh, I was just joking, well I don't see it that way. I see it as a passive aggressive way to get that final jab in and if I don't take it in a joking manner, then I'm the bad guy. I love sarcastic banter, just be careful with it when emotions are running high.


----------



## zillard

oregonmom said:


> I am well versed in sarcastic banter lol. My H and I do it all the time and I don't care if he calls me PITA or whatever cause I know it's not coming from a bad place. If we *just had a fight* tho, I do not take kindly to it. He'll say, geesh, I was just joking, well I don't see it that way. I see it as a *passive aggressive way to get that final jab in and if I don't take it in a joking manner, then I'm the bad guy*. I love sarcastic banter, just be careful with it when emotions are running high.


:iagree:

Z - that's not funny

X - well fvck you then. I was just trying to lighten the mood, grumpy pants

= my feelings are only important enough to take seriously when she decides


----------



## Awakening2012

Learning healthy ways of dealing with conflict is a biggie, as most will attest. On the flip side, to affirm the positives how about also making daily deposits in the "love bank"? That is, each day make a point of telling each other something you appreciate about your beloved  I'm pulling for you guys, and commend the hard earned progress you've made!


----------



## GutPunch

oregonmom said:


> A good example of one is Ms GP doesn't want to talk about stuff in front of the kids.


FWIW....My daughter was not in the room when I asked these questions. Ms. GP anticipated that she would come soon. She did not however voice the concern to me. No boundary needed as I am in full support of this.


----------



## oregonmom

GutPunch said:


> FWIW....My daughter was not in the room when I asked these questions. Ms. GP anticipated that she would come soon. She did not however voice the concern to me. No boundary needed as I am in full support of this.


Awesome, so you are most of the way there on that one . I get that feeling my S5 could come in at any moment sometimes and I'll say, hold on, let me make sure he's fully occupied. Done, conversation can continue


----------



## Tron

zillard said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Z - that's not funny
> 
> X - well fvck you then. I was just trying to lighten the mood, grumpy pants
> 
> = my feelings are only important enough to take seriously when she decides


Yes! 

At some point maybe about 5 years ago, I just decided that the humor and sarcasm wasn't worth the aggravation or hard feelings that may or may not be left behind. 

I stopped joking around at any hint of an argument or hurt feelings. 

We don't argue about that any more. 

I have seen on TAM though that this is an area where one size does not fit all.


----------



## Conrad

Yet, humor is the absolute best method of responding to Fitness Tests.


----------



## Tron

Conrad said:


> Yet, humor is the absolute best method of responding to Fitness Tests.


It is you sorry b'tard.  I almost wish I didn't know that now. 

Me being sarcastic, and she not, makes responding appropriately especially challenging. Humor without sarcasm is a fine art.

But I'm getting there.


----------



## helpandadvice

Ms. GP said:


> Alright LW. You asked for it. It is very hard for me to make sense of of my drug fueled insanity, but here goes. Bear in mind, none of this excuses any of my actions but if my story can help someone else I will share it.
> 
> I too grew up the child of an angry, abusive, and alcoholic psychiatrist. (what is up with that anyways?) and a mother with boderline personality disorder who would threaten suicide at the drop ofo a hat. To sum up my childhood in two words it would be sadistic chaos. I have been caring for my 3 younger brothers since I was 8 years old. My final diagnoses in treatment were PTSD and disassociative amnesia. To be quite honest, I don't remember large parts of my childhood but my oldest brother does, and what I do remember is really bad. I actually think the amnesia now is a blessing in disguise, because I was able to keep it together until I was 30.
> 
> I spent my entire childhood living in fear and internalizing all of my parents chaos as my fault. I thought if I could be perfect the chaos and abuse would stop. I felt everything was my fault and that I could not depend on anyone. Besides, who was going to believe a kid over a doctor? I actually ended up running away at 16 and my parents ended up actually losing custody of me at 17. Why not my brother's you ask? I have no idea and the guilt of leaving them still haunts me to this day.
> 
> I had no idea of how to be a part of a healthy relationship and felt very undeserving of one anyways. Along comes along GP and I was like one of those crazy foster kids that self destructs when they finally get placed with a happy family. I spent my entire life wearing this mask of perfection because inside I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I did however feel I put on a good show for GP for 10 years, but I never felt I could let him know what was going on inside of me for fear he would reject me. I never even told him how crazy my family was for the same reason.
> Fast forward until our daughter was born. I was working 12 hour shifts on my feet, breast feeding a baby all night long, caring for a 3 year old, and trying to do all the domestic chores. All in my pathetic attempt to appear "perfect". One day I just snapped, and picked up what was in my face all day long. I felt I had found my secret weapon to keep everything going, and thus begun my downward spiral.
> I tried to stop on my own and went through 5 days of excruciating drug withdrawls before I finally cracked. I was never angry with GP for not knowing. I was terrified he was going to leave me after finding out I was an addict. I desperately needed inpatient treatment but was terrified to self report to the board. I completely underestimated just how sick I was and so did GP. Like me, GP was scared of people finding out I was an addict because we live in a small town. He didn't want me going to meetings, getting a sponsor, going to treatment, etc.
> So I turned to an internet chat room to try to get better on my own. This is where I met gg. I absolutely hated myself and felt I was married to someone who didn't understand me or support my recovery. In a word, I was Insane!! He flodded me with compliments and could speak all of the "recovery talk" really well. In my sick depressed mind, I really thought this man would keep me clean. (Nuts, I know). The irony is I actually ended up relapsing over the guilt and shame of what I was doing to GP and my children. I became addicted to the compliments but eventually I saw him for what he was and dumped him. However, I was left with a void and one night I saw GP's profile on a dating website and became very jealous and started one of my own hoping he would see it. However, it backfired and I was overwhelmed by all of the attention. I was only on the site for 1 week and went on two lame dates. I couldn't keep up the dating and the drugs so I chose drugs. I don't expect this to make sense to anyone else.
> 
> The turning point came for me when the man I was on the verge of divorce from actually loved me enough to drive me to treatment and take care of all of my affairs while I was there for the sole reason of seeing the mother of his children get healthy. He even took out a loan to help pay for treatment and brought the children to see me at every possible opportunity. So to answer your question, when I told him I loved him. I meant it with all my heart. I have never felt more loved and accepted in my entire life and I know I don't deserve it.
> Yes, I too have an addicitve personality but I am trying to use it now towards my recovery, husband , and children. I don't expect any of this to make sense, because it really doesn't make sense to me but it is the truth.


I just broke down after reading this. I wish my wife would freaking wake up too. I would give anything for this to happen. Read my thread I am in the early stages of your story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Ms GP

You just made my eyes water.

But just so you know you are not crazy. Your story is not crazy and GP is not crazy.

Glad you are getting help and finding the love.

Now use your personality to protect it, cherish it and nurture it.

HM


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> Ms GP
> 
> You just made my eyes water.
> 
> But just so you know you are not crazy. Your story is not crazy and GP is not crazy.


It only seems that way


----------



## GutPunch

Why is my thread moving?

My son's football team is 5-0

Points for: 190 Points Against: 13

Turnovers: 0 that's right six and seven year olds and 0 turnovers

Pizza Party Tonight


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Why is my thread moving?
> 
> My son's football team is 5-0
> 
> Points for: 190 Points Against: 13
> 
> Turnovers: 0 that's right six and seven year olds and 0 turnovers
> 
> Pizza Party Tonight


A bit better than baseball season.


----------



## Ms. GP

Oh I'm crazy. No doubt about it, but I think normal is really just a setting on a dryer anyways.  Actually I posted that back in the summer, but if it helps someone else that's great!! Helpandadvice, I hope your wife wakes up too. Just know it's not your fault. If there is anything I can do to help, just let me know. 

Thanks hm. We are still actively working on ourselves and our marriage through counseling. I am still working my recovery program and regularly attending AA. I have almost 8 months clean and sober, and I feel great! GP and I still have our struggles, but for the most part things are pretty calm and serene these days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> A bit better than baseball season.


Agreed


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch -

Just checking in to say hi and to say, don't blow it now.


BW


----------



## GutPunch

GutPunch said:


> DDay Oct 12, 2012
> 
> My wife and I were married in 2001 and had our first child in 2006 and another in 2009. However, after the second child was born, I think she may have had some depression and an illness creep in around the time she went back to work. She being in healthcare, she had easy access to presciption opiates and stimulants. This is where she became addicted right under my nose.
> 
> This continued for two years... i thought it was caused by some unrelated illness she has. Then Feb of this year its off to the ER because she run out of pills. What a disturbing site the shaking and seizure like symptoms. However, I am still clueless. ER just gives her more pills.
> 
> She finally tells her family (DAD is a doctor) and she comes clean to me. Begs me not to leave her. Dad gets her thru the withdrawls and she begins seeing a counselor. Well...In my feeble little mind everything is fixed.
> 
> As you could imagine, someone on drugs for that long is not emotionally meeting my needs or her own for that matter. Here comes the depression. I swear my wife got to a point where everything in the world including me and the kids were depressing. It was like the drugs took her ability to be happy away. I just wait patiently for her to snap out of it.
> 
> September I discover the text messages and finally put 2 and 2 together that she is having an EA with online guy at drug rehab site. Oct 12 I discover they are to meet and tell her to stop and do the right thing for her kids sake. She leaves with toddler screaming "Don't go Mommy" ...and I go into shock!



Just another day.....


----------



## BK23

I'm shocked you let this woman back into your life. Glad to see that she seems to be living up to the second (third, fourth?) chance you've given her.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Just another day.....


Happy Anniversary


----------



## LongWalk

GP,

You wrote on somebody's thread that your wife had snuck back in and was eating your food and playing with your children. After all the self help books...

By the way, what did you bet in that first game of barroom pool? You said you were going to whip her azz.

Do you remember any particulars of the banter? Name of the bar?

You went home thinking that went pretty good. Little did you know how right you were. 

This D18 and I are going to play underwater ruby all weekend. Our club has entered two teams and I will probably come up against her if my body holds up. It is hard to go full out against your own DNA.

I keep telling her she has to strength training. Sooner or later she will and then she'll start ripping the ball away from me.

GP,

The parents of your players must be inviting you and the missus to all their barbecues now.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Happy Anniversary


Made me chuckle


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> GP,
> 
> You wrote on somebody's thread that your wife had snuck back in and was eating your food and playing with your children. After all the self help books...
> 
> By the way, what did you bet in that first game of barroom pool? You said you were going to whip her azz.
> 
> That was a statement of fact not a bet.
> 
> Do you remember any particulars of the banter? Name of the bar?
> 
> TCs was the name of the bar.
> 
> You went home thinking that went pretty good. Little did you know how right you were.
> 
> This D18 and I are going to play underwater ruby all weekend. Our club has entered two teams and I will probably come up against her if my body holds up. It is hard to go full out against your own DNA.
> 
> Makes me play harder
> 
> I keep telling her she has to strength training. Sooner or later she will and then she'll start ripping the ball away from me.
> 
> GP,
> 
> The parents of your players must be inviting you and the missus to all their barbecues now.


----------



## Chuck71

Be a year for me soon.....dike started cracking year ago 

this past weekend.....funny it seems more as if it was 2002

you live it, learn from it, move on

what else is there to do

and sometimes....everything is laid out and you see 

nothing but unrecognizable figures and stray thoughts

you trek to the lake with best friend JD V

experience a Neo night

the moment you are aware things are going to be fine

it all falls away, rain from tin roof

things can be better, IF ones chooses them to be

hope.....doesn't sound like much

but when everything is divided down, it's all humanity has


----------



## GutPunch

I'm 41 years old today. Hopefully this year is a little better than the last.

The football team finished the season undefeated. Bring on the playoffs. Go Lions!


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> I'm 41 years old today. Hopefully this year is a little better than the last.
> 
> The football team finished the season undefeated. Bring on the playoffs. Go Lions!


Happy birthday!:smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## Tron

Happy Birthday!


----------



## familyfirst09

Happy birthday!!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Ms GP,

Did you suggest going to TC's on the anniversary to buy GP a Coke Zero?

Did the football team have celebration party or barbecue?

Tom,
Do you mean as in the Detroit Lions?

Chuck,
You are a craft MF tricking people into reading poetry when they come to gaze train wrecks.


----------



## Ms. GP

I think TC's has been shut down. Probably because their bathrooms were biohazards. It was kinda a dive bar, but since it was cheap and they didn't ID, it was the perfect college kid bar. 

Actually I fixed some homemade lasagna and birthday cake last night. 

LW-, I resent the train wreck comment. I think we have at least downgraded to a car wreck. Mabye a motorcycle wreck I'm not sure. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

I don't think of you guys as a wreck at all. Downgraded to a Winnebago parked in a sheltered spot on the beach. If a storm comes you'll just drive inland and ride it out.

You and GP don't even read TAM that much anymore. That is a statement in itself. Chuck might feel the same way.

There is actually a super popular poster named Rosie 1. Sadly she nuked her first thread.


----------



## ReGroup

Happy belated birthday brother. And, congrats on another anniversary - it's a special day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

Just wanted to say Hi!! Things must be going well 
I don't get a computer very often so don't get to see threads unless im on one.
Best wishes


----------



## LongWalk

Football update?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

cute therapist update?


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> cute therapist update?


Now you are talking.


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> Football update?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


9 Wins - 0 Losses

Points for 314 - Points against 20

Now I'm helping coach the all star team.


----------



## happyman64

GutPunch said:


> 9 Wins - 0 Losses
> 
> Points for 314 - Points against 20
> 
> Now I'm helping coach the all star team.


Sweet revenge GP. Motto of the story: Stay away from baseball.


----------



## Chuck71

GutPunch said:


> 9 Wins - 0 Losses
> 
> Points for 314 - Points against 20
> 
> Now I'm helping coach the all star team.


steroids

I file motion all kids be drug tested

LOL wink GP


----------



## LongWalk

Through work I once came into contact with a steroids crime story. An elite swimmer (butterfly) in Sweden retired and not so long afterwards was arrested with her boyfriend for selling steroids to body builders and others who wanted muscle. She herself never used. Her body showed no signs of abuse.

She actually graduated from U of Nebraska on a swimming scholarship. Her time was good enough to go to the Olympics but sadly they wouldn't include her because her chances of winning a medal were too weak. Her best friend, who swam in the Olympics three times and still plans to go again, dropped her drug dealer buddy as a friend. (Did she have any choice?)

How this woman get mixed up in this? Her father was an abuser and smuggler. He supplied her with the stuff. He was arrested twice. Now, Ms GP, get this. Her mother, who had split from the swimmer's dad, was a... psychiatrist. Her mother's second husband was a carpenter.

So this poor woman grew up with dad shooting up steroids.


----------



## GutPunch

No steroids for this bunch. Too good without them.

Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## LongWalk

Happy Turkey Day to you, Ms GP and the kids


----------



## GutPunch

War Eagle!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Yes sir!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

My red headed counselor has given me my release. Only took a year of counseling to realize I didn't need any counseling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> My red headed counselor has given me my release. Only took a year of counseling to realize I didn't need any counseling.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The state board should revoke her license to practice


----------



## ReGroup

Damn, ain't that something.

The difference a year makes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

What's up Group. I bet the cubs win the world series before you get divorced.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

GutPunch said:


> What's up Group. I bet the cubs win the world series before you get divorced.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The humor is still in tact I see.

I am crawling through the prison sewer system like Andy Dufresne. A couple hundred yards to go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

ReGroup said:


> The humor is still in tact I see.
> 
> I am crawling through the prison sewer system like Andy Dufresne. A couple hundred yards to go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You'll get there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

is Conrad back or on parole

I may need him as an advocate soon


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> What's up Group. I bet the cubs win the world series before you get divorced.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am very comfortable with that remark.

About the cubs not Regroup.


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> is Conrad back or on parole
> 
> I may need him as an advocate soon


He graduated from the "reeducation" camp comrad.


----------



## Chuck71

The Cubs win the World Series when Bud Selig gets a proper haircut


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> The Cubs win the World Series when Bud Selig gets a proper haircut


Perhaps when he's horizontal.


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> The Cubs win the World Series when Bud Selig gets a proper haircut


Theo Epstein not Juan Epstein the puerto rican jew was on a local sports talk show tonight and was he ever the smooth talking politician maybe I'll find the link.
HERE
Epstein: 'We can't make time move faster' | CSN Chicago

Or like Ed Lynch said once "hope springs eternal"


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> Perhaps when he's horizontal.


Isn't the used car salesman retiring after this year? I hope?


----------



## tom67

Theo sounds like Al Gore


----------



## Chuck71

tom, if you get bored check out my blog.

wrapping it up since my story is told

posted a pic of the X on the dating site after D

LOL

Conrad's Window Cork is fitting with the photo


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GP its been a while. Post an update!


----------



## LongWalk

Where is that, Chuck?


----------



## GutPunch

Here's an update for the few who are still here and remember me. The wife and I are still reconciling and in marriage counseling. Everything is going well ie. more good days than bad. The wife is really working hard to conquer her addiction (meetings, IC, etc.). 

Money is tight right now as we purchased our home based on two incomes and we still have a large student loan payment. I am lucky to have had a good year at work to alleviate some of the financial burden. I do worry about the wife going back to work. Anyway, I could not afford to go to Pasadena and watch Auburn play for the NC like I did in 2010 when they played Oregon . War Eagle!

I really enjoyed coaching and watching my son's football team win the championship. Baseball signups are this weekend and I hope I haven't been black balled for my tirade last year. Rest assured I know one team I won't be on. 

I still lurk on TAM from time to time and chime in on some threads occasionally. Wishing everyone a happy 2014.

All the Best
GP


----------



## Chuck71

LW I posted it on my old Crossroads II: The Way blog last month

WC has one more "come around"....when...who knows

no kids.....nothing more to post. still seeing urology gal

keeping it "not serious" after the summer meltdown

but I have to hand it to her, she's put up with me a year LOL


----------



## Chuck71

GP.....weathered the storm...sail on friend

thanks to your War Eagles we now get to hear

Saban whine and complain until September


----------



## LongWalk

Good update GP. Hope your wife can handle working again, at least part time and not a place that will cause her to trigger.

The two of you have a great sense of humor. This will see you through to the end.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> Good update GP. Hope your wife can handle working again, at least part time and not a place that will cause her to trigger.
> 
> The two of you have a great sense of humor. This will see you through to the end.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


I hope so too. She says she has a plan and I trust that she does. Otherwise we need to do some downsizing stat.


----------



## Chuck71

great game....hard to see either team lose

after 21-3, I thought it was a wrap


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> great game....hard to see either team lose
> 
> after 21-3, I thought it was a wrap


I knew better. FSU had a just a few too many blue chippers. Auburns special teams had been good all year but not last night. I am still proud for the this team which only won 3 games last year. 

Anybody else see Mario Edwards Jr. run down Nick Marshall. Amazing. He has got be 300 lbs and Nick has 4.4 speed.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch -

I've been off TAM most of the time too, miss your posts but really glad to hear things are working out for you. Best of everything and I hope the old woman is still cooking you pork chops.

Winkle


----------



## GutPunch

Moose Man,

Good to hear from you. I hope things are going well for you. Send me some money as you are probably making bank over there with nothing to spend it on. 

The wife and I are doing real good. I do find it strange that she wears crotchless panties and spends the night at these AA meetings. Anybody ever heard of this? I'm sure it's nothing. She told me it was normal so I believe her.


----------



## Chuck71

they are studying banking

deposits and withdrawals


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> The wife and I are doing real good. I do find it strange that she wears crotchless panties and spends the night at these AA meetings. Anybody ever heard of this? I'm sure it's nothing. She told me it was normal so I believe her.


Hmmm. :scratchhead:

There are some gaps in this story that you may want to explore a little deeper.


----------



## GutPunch

Explore her gaps deeper......got it......will do.


----------



## LongWalk

Even though the kids you coach are too young to appreciate irony, GP. I'll bet they smile without knowing why exactly.


----------



## oregonmom

GutPunch said:


> The wife and I are doing real good. I do find it strange that she wears crotchless panties and spends the night at these AA meetings. Anybody ever heard of this? I'm sure it's nothing. She told me it was normal so I believe her.


This is totally normal, we do this at Al-Anon too. I just wish there were more men there to share my... um, experience, strength and hope with.


----------



## Ms. GP

I was told you must be willing to go to any lengths to stay sober. I thought it was weird too. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ICLH

GutPunch said:


> Moose Man,
> 
> Good to hear from you. I hope things are going well for you. Send me some money as you are probably making bank over there with nothing to spend it on.
> 
> The wife and I are doing real good. I do find it strange that she wears crotchless panties and spends the night at these AA meetings. Anybody ever heard of this? I'm sure it's nothing. She told me it was normal so I believe her.


The crotchless panties? What's that all about? And what's the point of crotchless panties?


----------



## oncehisangel

gosh, I might have to go back and read a few pages....after coming into the last post....

who's wearing crotchless knickers? what? Where?


Ps. Good to see you're in good humour Mr and Mrs GP xxx Hang tight you two!


----------



## ReGroup

ICLH said:


> The crotchless panties? What's that all about? And what's the point of crotchless panties?


It's GP Humor.

Funniest couple on this forum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

GP, I love it, some things never change. And for whatever it's worth, I'm wearing a pair of crotchless panties right now myself. Better air circulation, etc.

BW


----------



## Chaparral

15 degrees in KY this morning, who carries crotchless long underwear?


----------



## GutPunch

The people on TAM that know me are aware of the fact that I love to laugh. WIth that being said, I have also enjoyed the pleasures and ultimately the sorrow associated with the sugar free gummy bear.

The reviews on Amazon literally had me crying and gasping for air I was laughing so hard. Here's the link.

Amazon.com: Haribo Gummy Candy, Sugarless Gummy Bears, 5-Pound Bag: Grocery & Gourmet Food

Please read the cutomer reviews.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> The people on TAM that know me are aware of the fact that I love to laugh. WIth that being said, I have also enjoyed the joys and ultimately the sorrow associated with the sugar free gummy bear.
> 
> The reviews on Amazon literally had me crying and gasping for air I was laughing so hard. Here's the link.
> 
> Amazon.com: Haribo Gummy Candy, Sugarless Gummy Bears, 5-Pound Bag: Grocery & Gourmet Food


Rumor has it that gummy bears have crotchless panties


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## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Rumor has it that gummy bears have crotchless panties


You will need assless panties if you eat these devil bears.


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## ICLH

LMAO. I just read about those gummy bears the other night.


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## Tron

Nice find GP! 

W and I couldn't stop laughing last night.


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## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> The people on TAM that know me are aware of the fact that I love to laugh. WIth that being said, I have also enjoyed the pleasures and ultimately the sorrow associated with the sugar free gummy bear.
> 
> The reviews on Amazon literally had me crying and gasping for air I was laughing so hard. Here's the link.
> 
> Amazon.com: Haribo Gummy Candy, Sugarless Gummy Bears, 5-Pound Bag: Grocery & Gourmet Food
> 
> Please read the cutomer reviews.


Gotta love it when the sphincters scream.


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## GutPunch

Tron said:


> Nice find GP!
> 
> W and I couldn't stop laughing last night.


Tron

I experienced this at work many years ago. I ate an entire small bag. I paid the price too. They go down sweet and come out screaming. FDA missed the boat on these things. The bag literally had a warning on it I did not see. Do not eat more than 5.

I literally had to stop reading periodically because my laughter was hurting my side too much.


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## warlock07

GP, saw some of your posts in other thread. 

When do you and Ms.GP plan to start dealing with her infidelity ? Or did you already ?(I don't exactly remember)/ Until now, I think the main focus for both of you has been her addictions and her rehab.


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## GutPunch

Baseball season is here and I am throwing my hat in the coaching carousel. I cannot endure another 0-16 season so I hooked up with the other football coach and started a baseball team. We look pretty good to. Maybe not as good as the year round baseball boys but we will win our fair share this year.

Good News! Ms. GP is eligible to go back to work. She has done everything asked and has been reinstated. Takes a load off of me as I was keeping the Titanic afloat with one broken paddle. 

Thank you to all the people who coached me thru my fear and anxiety. I truly appreciate each and every one of you. Conrad, Happyman, Chuck, Regroup, Tron, BW, Zillard, FF, Warlock, LW, SOCA and even Oregonmom. 

All the Best
GP


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## Chuck71

I heard about this corn fed kid down in Prattville, AL

think his name is Roy Hobbs

can hit the ball a mile

has a fastball like Walter Johnson

GP when you get the chance, buy Long Gone at Amazon

great baseball move from the 1950s


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## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> I heard about this corn fed kid down in Prattville, AL
> 
> think his name is Roy Hobbs
> 
> can hit the ball a mile
> 
> has a fastball like Walter Johnson
> 
> GP when you get the chance, buy Long Gone at Amazon
> 
> great baseball move from the 1950s


Sounds like a natural.


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## AFPhoenix

I left the Prattville/Millbrook area in June 2013.


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## Chuck71

Prattville was just pulled outta nowhere...well not really

key destination for lead characters, a halfway point

he lives in TN, her AL coast

just used small AL town for post to GP, an AL guy


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## AFPhoenix

I'm an AL guy as well! The Auburn side of Al. War Eagle.


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## GutPunch

War Eagle AFP!

I'll have to read your thread. 

I bet I can guess the jist of it already.


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## LongWalk

How does the little League season look GP? Is your daughter going to softball?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

LongWalk said:


> How does the little League season look GP? Is your daughter going to softball?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The baseball team looks pretty good. Offensively for sure, and offense wins at this age group. 

Little girl does gymnastics.


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## Chuck71

how is Mrs. GP's job search going? finding a job with her craft

is easy, will the hiring company overlook her transgressions?


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## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> how is Mrs. GP's job search going? finding a job with her craft
> 
> is easy, will the hiring company overlook her transgressions?


I think someone will overlook it but not all. I imagine if she goes against a bunch of applicants she will lose out. However, there is never a bunch of applicants. So I'm pretty confident she will land a job just maybe not the best job at first.


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## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I think someone will overlook it but not all. I imagine if she goes against a bunch of applicants she will lose out. However, there is never a bunch of applicants. So I'm pretty confident she will land a job just maybe not the best job at first.


There's this local company that makes lawn decorations. You want the address?


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## Chuck71

I was "mowed" by that statement


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## GutPunch

I smite all prejudices against people of height. This includes most of your lawn decorations.


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## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> I smite all prejudices against people of height. This includes most of your lawn decorations.


Smite me, oh mighty smiter!


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Smite me, oh mighty smiter!


I'm sorry you feel that way.


----------



## happyman64

I cant wait for those baseball pictures this season GP.

Glad your wife can work again.

Where should I mail the whip? 

HM


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## GutPunch

Congrats to Ms. GP for one year clean and sober today. In honor of this momentous occasion, I am going to quit drinking diet coke...again.


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## Ms. GP

Thanks honey. I appreciate the solidarity but I understand that you are powerless over diet coke. Just do the best you can. Today I am overwhelmed with gratitude. Most of all I am grateful for you GP. Not a lot of men would have stuck around and I know that. I'm grateful for the second chance to try to be the wife you deserve. I love you and our family with all my heart. You are a good man. I really love our life together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

well GP..... out of the four of us from last year

you're the one that made the Road Home

congratulations to you and Mrs. GP

if you ever renew your vows

how about the four of us doing.... Hangover IV


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> Congrats to Ms. GP for one year clean and sober today. In honor of this momentous occasion, I am going to quit drinking diet coke...again.


Progress, not perfection.


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## Heartbroken84

Wow well done you!!!

This gives me some hope  my H is 4mths into recovery and has said ILYBINILWY... How did addiction/recovery affect your emotions & love Mrs GP if you don't mind me asking?


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## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> well GP..... out of the four of us from last year
> 
> you're the one that made the Road Home
> 
> congratulations to you and Mrs. GP
> 
> if you ever renew your vows
> 
> how about the four of us doing.... Hangover IV


Hangover IV, I'm in. 

I think all four of us made the road home. My road home was
just a different path.


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## Chuck71

GutPunch said:


> Hangover IV, I'm in.
> 
> I think all four of us made the road home. My road home was
> just a different path.


of the four females involved in our treks last year

three of them had internal issues 

yours (Mrs. GP) was more external


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## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> of the four females involved in our treks last year
> 
> three of them had internal issues
> 
> yours (Mrs. GP) was more external


IDk....I think the drug use was MS. GP's way of coping with her internal issues. I think rehab brought these issues to light. From there, she was able to work on them full time with counselors.

The other females could not own their issues.....or should I say would not own them or were completely unaware they had any issues at all.


----------



## Chuck71

GutPunch said:


> IDk....I think the drug use was MS. GP's way of coping with her internal issues. I think rehab brought these issues to light. From there, she was able to work on them full time with counselors.
> 
> The other females could not own their issues.....or should I say would not own them or were completely unaware they had any issues at all.


we all have heard about Tiger and urology gal

notice Group hasn't said a thing

I'm sure we would need a scorecard to keep up

but he needs to throw us some crumbs :lol:


----------



## Ms. GP

GutPunch said:


> Hangover IV, I'm in.
> 
> I think all four of us made the road home. My road home was
> just a different path.[/QUOTEI
> 
> 
> If you need a DD I'm in. I'll pick you up at whatever roach motel you wind up at and help you bury the dead tiger in the bathroom.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

Ms. GP said:


> GutPunch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hangover IV, I'm in.
> 
> I think all four of us made the road home. My road home was
> just a different path.[/QUOTEI
> 
> 
> If you need a DD I'm in. I'll pick you up at whatever roach motel you wind up at and help you bury the dead tiger in the bathroom.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give shots?
> 
> We will need to drug Tyson.....I'm not going toe to toe with him
> 
> yes I'm crazy but not stupid
Click to expand...


----------



## Ms. GP

Chuck71 said:


> Ms. GP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give shots?
> 
> We will need to drug Tyson.....I'm not going toe to toe with him
> 
> yes I'm crazy but not stupid
> 
> 
> 
> I can actually. Please don't let GP get any face tattoos. That's all I ask. Missing teefers are fine. We do live in the south.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


----------



## Ms. GP

Heartbroken84 said:


> Wow well done you!!!
> 
> This gives me some hope  my H is 4mths into recovery and has said ILYBINILWY... How did addiction/recovery affect your emotions & love Mrs GP if you don't mind me asking?


Thanks honey. That means a lot. Feel free to PM me anytime. Ask anything I'm an open book. GP and I were talking this morning and I said I felt guilty for giving some people a false sense of hope. It took me going to treatment to realize what I stood to lose. We have both poured a lot of hard word into ourselves and our marriage with a whole team of professionals. We had to repair our damaged self esteems first before we could work on the marriage. So my question to you is what are you both doing for yourselves?
,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

I wonder if you two remember the first joke you managed to crack after Ms GP was busted and heading for rehab. I gather GP wasn't very chatty in the car. Who told the first joke on the phone or during a visit? What was it?

When your children have grown up they'll only have the vaguest memories of tough times (crossed fingers).


----------



## Heartbroken84

Ms. GP said:


> Thanks honey. That means a lot. Feel free to PM me anytime. Ask anything I'm an open book. GP and I were talking this morning and I said I felt guilty for giving some people a false sense of hope. It took me going to treatment to realize what I stood to lose. We have both poured a lot of hard word into ourselves and our marriage with a whole team of professionals. We had to repair our damaged self esteems first before we could work on the marriage. So my question to you is what are you both doing for yourselves?
> 
> ,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



He came out of rehab completely broken & laid bare, he said he loves me more than ever & begged me to give him a chance to prove himself - I was reluctant but agreed to spend some time together & see what happened as I didn't know if I loved him cos of all the hurt/pain. 

I began to forgive his wrongs & my feelings began to come back but we quickly fell back into the same cycle because we hadn't addressed any of the issues in our relationship, we'd just taken away the drink/drugs  5 weeks ago he said he "needs space" and "ILYBINILWY" and at first I was heartbroken but I now see that we couldn't continue like that and it was for the best so we can both work on ourselves.

He's still "on the fence" and loving his freedom, he said he doesn't know what he wants and isn't ready to deal with anything so I'm sort if in limbo - I'm focusing on working on myself.

He's got lots of very deep resentments towards me, I know how bitter resentments can make a person so I don't know if dealing with them will help him. Who knows - one day at a time at the mo!!

Thank you for taking the time to reply it's very much appreciated!


----------



## Ms. GP

LongWalk said:


> I wonder if you two remember the first joke you managed to crack after Ms GP was busted and heading for rehab. I gather GP wasn't very chatty in the car. Who told the first joke on the phone or during a visit? What was it?
> 
> When your children have grown up they'll only have the vaguest memories of tough times (crossed fingers).



I can't remember the first joke. It definitely was a quiet ride up. I was still withdrawaling so I was in and out of consciousness on the ride up. I think the first joke was over the phone when GP asked when he was allowed to make conjugal visits and that conjugal visits were on his bucket list. I also remember the first family visit at the place he kept staring at my boobs because I had gained some weight and my boobs were bigger. I said, "hey dude, I'm up here." And he said, "your down there too. Leave me alone."

Yes I think our senses of humor have been our saving grace. I do however want everyone to know I didn't just go to treatment and then everything was perfect. We didn't want to broadcast our fights over tam ( especially the friggin three day bacon fight). I think it can be a little passive aggressive to try to bring others in to your fights. We both did seek wise tam council via PM. (You know who you guys are  ) We both did IC and MC and still are. We are by no means perfect but we do try to end our arguments with I see your point now and I think that's pretty darn good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Whoa, how did I miss this post? Bigger boobs? 

Good on you two. GP, don't blow it now. 


BW


----------



## Conrad

Bullwinkle said:


> Whoa, how did I miss this post? Bigger boobs?
> 
> Good on you two. GP, don't blow it now.
> 
> 
> BW


Yes, let her do that.


----------



## Heartbroken84

Just read through most of this thread, wow what a journey!!!


----------



## Ms. GP

Update- Here's what ones arguments look like after too much TAM/therapy

Backstory- Today was pajama day at our son's school. He has recently went through a growth spurt and not a lot if hid pjs fit. GP was worried about it. Since I do the laundry I was 90% sure he had some in his drawer.

Me- I found some pajamas that fit. He looks cute.

GP- yeah. My love language is satisfied. I forgot to take the trash to the road. I was too busy taking you to dinner last night.

Me- Whatever dude. I'll take it out. You don't have to get all passive aggressive about it. 

Gp- Your comments are unnecessary.

Me- I'm sorry you feel that way.

Somewhere I think the TAM gods are smiling!! Ha ha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

have the kid take it out lol


----------



## Tron

Ms. GP said:


> Update- Here's what ones arguments look like after too much TAM/therapy
> 
> Backstory- Today was pajama day at our son's school. He has recently went through a growth spurt and not a lot if hid pjs fit. GP was worried about it. Since I do the laundry I was 90% sure he had some in his drawer.
> 
> Me- I found some pajamas that fit. He looks cute.
> 
> GP- yeah. My love language is satisfied. I forgot to take the trash to the road. I was too busy taking you to dinner last night.
> 
> Me- Whatever dude. I'll take it out. You don't have to get all passive aggressive about it.
> 
> Gp- Your comments are unnecessary.
> 
> Me- I'm sorry you feel that way.
> 
> Somewhere I think the TAM gods are smiling!! Ha ha
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup: Music to our ears!


----------



## LongWalk

Are your kids going to ask each other what do daddy and mommy mean when they say they are not okay with each other's POS tendencies?


----------



## Ripper

This has the making of a Greek tragedy.

I believe OP can finally come to terms with his wife having an emotional affair, abusing drugs, abandoning her family, possible felony record, losing her job and nuking their finances. But the physical affair........that physical act of betrayal by his wife will destroy a man's soul every time.


----------



## Chuck71

this is one of the happier endings....


----------



## LongWalk

If we all stay here long enough, GP will be a college football coach.

Ms. GP, are you getting ready to work again? Even part time could be good to keep your credentials current.


----------



## GutPunch

Ripper said:


> This has the making of a Greek tragedy.
> 
> ........that physical act of betrayal by his wife will destroy a man's soul every time.


Only if he let's it.


----------



## Ripper

GutPunch said:


> Only if he let's it.


Gotta say OP, you are a credit to our species.


----------



## LongWalk

Wonder how the football season went?


----------



## Chuck71

they finished 2nd in state tourney over Thanksgiving


----------



## LongWalk

Thanks, Chuck. GP should be appointed the new head coach of University of Michigan.


----------



## Chuck71

inside sources say Harbaugh will leave 49'ers for it after the season


----------



## jim123

LongWalk said:


> Thanks, Chuck. GP should be appointed the new head coach of University of Michigan.


I thought you liked GP


----------



## Chuck71

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## LongWalk

I figure he needs a change of weather.


----------



## Chuck71

and underwear. Al Bundy was funny, not GP LOL


----------



## DayOne

Why is the zombie GTDS thread of a banned member being used for a sports chat?


----------



## LongWalk

This is one of the best threads of TAM.

GP has spies here who can can communicate on his behalf.


----------



## Chuck71

here's LW going Star Wars on us :rofl:


----------



## Coffee Amore

If you want to discuss sports, please open a thread in the Social Spot.


----------

