# Trapped in a bad marriage, help!



## wrsteele1

My wife of 7 years had an emotional affair with another person, exchanging over 5,000 text messages in less than 2 months. She works with the person and has cut off non-work contact but will not leave her job. Asking her to leave her job would result in termination of my marriage most likely.

My wife has told the therapist our relationship was strong before the affair and that it started as "helping a friend through a difficult time" (his sister committed suicide last December when this started). My wife can offer me no suggestions as to anything I can do large or small to bring her joy and has told me that "she's sorry and I deserve to be with someone who makes me happy." Supposedly she wants things around the house but I have been moving the Earth at home for the past 5 weeks without so much as a positive blip as a result.

We have been going to counseling for over a month, but I am still unable to get her to say the words "I want our marriage to work and I will try my best." She has made some efforts to change, but is not doing enough of the right things nor is she interested in doing so. She has told me she doesn't love me, doesn't know if she has hope for us, and is basically just giving effort for the sake of our 2 kids. I feel that her family's strong christian background is also a reason she hasn't left (major disapointment to her family if she "quit").

I am maddened by her lack of effort and every day I feel further apart from her. There is basically 3 reasons I'm still here 1) my kids, 2) belief in marriage, and 3) she is who I want to be married too.

Complicating the situation is that she believes that there should always be romantic love in a situation. She tells me at least twice a week she does not love me. 3 times in the past week I've come so close to walking out. I have incredible difficulty controlling my anger and being patient. I feel near my breaking point due to her lack of effort.

HELP! Is there hope for us? Any suggestions?


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## warlock07

It is likely that the affair did not end.


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## lamaga

You are talking to a wall. You cannot save your marriage on your own.


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## Will_Kane

What you are doing is not working. You must do something different.

How do you know it is not a physical affair? Emotional affairs where the parties have physical access to each other turn into physical affairs very quickly - usually within weeks.

Is the other man single?


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## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> It is likely that the affair did not end.


Supposedly, the gentlemen in the affair thought I knew about the exchanges as she was his support during a difficult time. I confronted him cordially in a planned meeting and he told me he had no idea I didn't know or that this was a problem for my wife and that he would break it off from his end as well.

I don't know whether to believe. My wife is pretty convincing that she ended it.

Why do you think it is "likely" that the affair did not end? And how should I deal with that possibility?


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## lamaga

Oh, honey... *head::desk*


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> What you are doing is not working. You must do something different.
> 
> How do you know it is not a physical affair? Emotional affairs where the parties have physical access to each other turn into physical affairs very quickly - usually within weeks.
> 
> Is the other man single?


He is married with 3 kids. I don't know for sure I guess. But I believe it was not physical.

Supposedly, the gentlemen in the affair thought I knew about the exchanges as she was his support during a difficult time. I confronted him cordially in a planned meeting and he told me he had no idea I didn't know or that this was a problem for my wife and that he would break it off from his end as well.

I don't know whether to believe. My wife is pretty convincing that she ended it.

Why do you think it is "likely" that the affair did not end? And how should I deal with that possibility?


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> What you are doing is not working. You must do something different.
> 
> How do you know it is not a physical affair? Emotional affairs where the parties have physical access to each other turn into physical affairs very quickly - usually within weeks.
> 
> Is the other man single?


What are some "different" things I could try?


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## Will_Kane

The only way to save your marriage is to end the affair and have no contact with the other man.

Either he leaves the job or she does.

You say you will lose your marriage if you require this. You also will lose your marriage if you don't require this. My opinion, and experience on this forum has borne out, that you have a better chance of saving your marriage by requiring your wife to leave her job (or getting other man to do so) than by continuing to let them both work together. There is a zero success rate for that.


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## wrsteele1

lamaga said:


> You are talking to a wall. You cannot save your marriage on your own.


Any suggestions how to break down wall? This is exactly what is happening.


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## Will_Kane

Tell us more about the other man and their work relationship - i.e., superior-subordinate, co-workers, etc. Also is the other man single?


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## warlock07

Have you read their texts? Were they sexual in nature? You can recover them if she has a smart phone. 

Would he mind if you talked to his wife in a similar way? Yes, he would.
The "gentleman " is a snake. You have more to lose by trusting him than not anyway


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## Thorburn

Expose the EA to her family and anyone else that is close to you and her. I did not do this in 2010 and my IC told me my wife would do it again and if the guy was local it would become a PA. It did within a year. This dude works with your wife. She will not quit her job and is saying the things she is saying because she is in love with the dude at work. I suspect there was sex.

Expose it now. Get it over with and see what comes of it. Because right now you do not have a marriage and she wants out. Out her and she if her fantasy world crumbles.

Don't walk out. Stay in your home. Keep your anger under control. I didn't and it got bad. Vent here not on your wife. Go dark on her. 

There is always hope. The worse cases can R but right now you have a wife in the fog. Expose it as this is the quickest way for the fog to be lifted. Keep in mind that exposure does not always work the way we want it to but in many cases that is the formula. Don't plead or beg your wife. Go dark on her. She wants romance - tough shi* - stop doing stuff for her. Start doing stuff for you and your kids. Focus on you and your kids. Be polite to her but don't engage her other then kid stuff. 

Don't leave your house.


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> The only way to save your marriage is to end the affair and have no contact with the other man.
> 
> Either he leaves the job or she does.
> 
> You say you will lose your marriage if you require this. You also will lose your marriage if you don't require this. My opinion, and experience on this forum has borne out, that you have a better chance of saving your marriage by requiring your wife to leave her job (or getting other man to do so) than by continuing to let them both work together. There is a zero success rate for that.


My current strategy is to try to improve things marginally, then revisit this. If we can improve things some I would even move to a different city with my family if she will agree to get her out of the job situation. Is that a reasonable strategy. I'm afford if I force this before she is ready to start working on our marriage it would amount to a foolish ultimatum pushing a result I don't want. Is this reasonable thinking?


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> Any suggestions how to break down wall? This is exactly what is happening.


Stop talking to the wall and start taking action. Inform her Christian parents that she has been texting 5K messages to OM and trying to keep the relationship a secret from you. 

When did she first say she doesn't love you?


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> My current strategy is to try to improve things marginally, then revisit this. If we can improve things some I would even move to a different city with my family if she will agree to get her out of the job situation. Is that a reasonable strategy. I'm afford if I force this before she is ready to start working on our marriage it would amount to a foolish ultimatum pushing a result I don't want. Is this reasonable thinking?


No, my kids would call this an "Epic Fail."


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Tell us more about the other man and their work relationship - i.e., superior-subordinate, co-workers, etc. Also is the other man single?


He is an anesthesiologist and she is a nurse. It is a hospital chain and most days they have little meaningful contact (because they would be in different surgical rooms most days). Maybe once every 4 weeks they are in a room together with about 5 other people all day.

He is married with 3 kids.


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## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> Have you read their texts? Were they sexual in nature? You can recover them if she has a smart phone.
> 
> Would he mind if you talked to his wife in a similar way? Yes, he would.
> The "gentleman " is a snake. You have more to lose by trusting him than not anyway


I've not read the texts and do not know if they were sexual in nature. Does it mater at this point? What matters is whether it is over, correct? 

She had a blackberry but recently upgraded to an iphone. Don't know what she did with the old.


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## Will_Kane

To break down the wall, you may have to expose the affair to your family, her family, other man's family, and her employer. Very frequently this ends the affair - when everyone knows about it and the cheaters are pressured by those whose opinions matter to them to stop.

You also may have to file for divorce. Divorce is a long process and you can stop the process if she agrees to end the affair.

From your description, she definitely is continuing the emotional affair and it almost definitely has become a physical affair.

Cheaters follow a script. It really is remarkable how similar all these stories of cheaters are. Your wife is following the script to a T. The script is to lie and minimize and go underground and do whatever is necessary to stay in the affair until forced to end it.

Betrayed spouses also follow a script. The script is to be afraid that the cheating spouse will leave them if they take any action, like exposure or enforcing reasonable marital boundaries. You are following that script to a T.


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> I've not read the texts and do not know if they were sexual in nature. Does it mater at this point? What matters is whether it is over, correct?


Of course it matters. Tell her you want to read them.




wrsteele1 said:


> She had a blackberry but recently upgraded to an iphone. Don't know what she did with the old.


Then find out. Is her phone password protected?


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## wrsteele1

I exposed it to my family, her family; but not the other mans wife or the employer.

How do I expose it to her employer?


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## wrsteele1

Machiavelli said:


> Of course it matters. Tell her you want to read them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then find out. Is her phone password protected?


No. I have snooped and it seems clean. I watch on myverizon who she texts now and also have her e-mail password. My guess is she pitched the old phone, but I don't know.


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> I exposed it to my family, her family; but not the other mans wife or the employer.
> 
> How do I expose it to her employer?


Human Resources.


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## Will_Kane

Ask her to see the texts and not delete them. If she is being honest, why wouldn't she let you have access to all her communication devices and accounts? What secrets could be there that a husband shouldn't know about?

The reason no one here believes it has ended is because of how cold your wife is acting toward you. Your marriage was fine before, it would return to a much better state if she was not emotionally wrapped up in the other man. We say this because if you look at the other threads, when people come here saying what you say, and then they investigate, they find that the affair is still going on, and that it was physical, about 100% of the time.


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## Will_Kane

What has her family brought to bear on the situation? Did anyone ask her to stop the affair? Or are you all under the assumption that it has stopped?

In that case, you will have to find evidence.

Worst case, you could ask your wife to take a polygraph.


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## wrsteele1

Machiavelli said:


> Stop talking to the wall and start taking action. Inform her Christian parents that she has been texting 5K messages to OM and trying to keep the relationship a secret from you.
> 
> When did she first say she doesn't love you?


5 weeks ago. I've done what you suggested already. She said she didn't love me about the last 2-3 months.


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## JustWaiting

Don't be in a rush. 7 years and children. Sometimes one partner needs to be strong even when they can't see any hope or light at the end of the tunnel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

Machiavelli said:


> Human Resources.


And what will they/ can they do?


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## Jibril

wrsteele1 said:


> No. I have snooped and it seems clean. I watch on myverizon who she texts now and also have her e-mail password. My guess is she pitched the old phone, but I don't know.


She may have a "burner" phone - a throwaway phone she uses to contact the other man, which she can easily dispose of if she's caught. 

Check all her communications regardless. Ask for passwords and such if you don't already have them.

As Machiavelli stated, contact HR and inform them about the affair.

And seriously consider filing for divorce. As others have stated, if she shows genuine remorse and tries to make the marriage work, you can always stop proceedings. But be _prepared_ to bail. And be *committed* to bailing. Bluffing a divorce can easily blow up in your face - it's a way for you to escape the humiliation and the toxic environment and move on with your life, not a bargaining chip.


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## wrsteele1

JustWaiting said:


> Don't be in a rush. 7 years and children. Sometimes one partner needs to be strong even when they can't see any hope or light at the end of the tunnel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is what I'm trying to do, thank you. Do you agree with other posters that I should tell man's wife and her employer? And that I should ultimatum her to quit her job?


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> No. I have snooped and it seems clean. I watch on myverizon who she texts now and also have her e-mail password. My guess is she pitched the old phone, but I don't know.


She's put the iphone on her plan and maybe she's using the old BB under a side plan as an affair phone. 

Get a VAR and some upholstery grade heavy velcro and attach it to the underside of her driver's seat. You may get some voice traffic on her commute and lunch time.

Put a keylogger on her computer. You can get into her email and see if she's getting e-billed for a second phone plan.

In the meantime, dig around in her car and see if you can find her old phone. 

The surveillance will tell you if the affair is really over or if it's gone underground.


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## wrsteele1

Jibril said:


> She may have a "burner" phone - a throwaway phone she uses to contact the other man, which she can easily dispose of if she's caught.
> 
> Check all her communications regardless. Ask for passwords and such if you don't already have them.
> 
> As Machiavelli stated, contact HR and inform them about the affair.
> 
> And seriously consider filing for divorce. As others have stated, if she shows genuine remorse and tries to make the marriage work, you can always stop proceedings. But be _prepared_ to bail. And be *committed* to bailing. Bluffing a divorce can easily blow up in your face - it's a way for you to escape the humiliation and the toxic environment and move on with your life, not a bargaining chip.


What can HR do? I have not considered this angle.

I don't understand how filing for divorce makes anything better. I don't want divorce so this is a step towards an ending I don't want. Shouldn't I avoid that? Am I missing something?


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> 5 weeks ago. I've done what you suggested already. She said she didn't love me about the last 2-3 months.


Good work on the exposure. I'm guessing the affair went physical 2-3 months ago. The distancing usually starts when the "fluid bonding" starts.


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## Thorburn

wrsteele1 said:


> I exposed it to my family, her family; but not the other mans wife or the employer.
> 
> How do I expose it to her employer?


My advise is do not expose it to the employer yet. You have time and do not make a hasty decision yet on this one.


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> And what will they/ can they do?


Usually nothing, especially a hospital corporation. However, they may have some fraternization rules. Ask them.


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Ask her to see the texts and not delete them. If she is being honest, why wouldn't she let you have access to all her communication devices and accounts? What secrets could be there that a husband shouldn't know about?
> 
> The reason no one here believes it has ended is because of how cold your wife is acting toward you. Your marriage was fine before, it would return to a much better state if she was not emotionally wrapped up in the other man. We say this because if you look at the other threads, when people come here saying what you say, and then they investigate, they find that the affair is still going on, and that it was physical, about 100% of the time.


I understand. The coldness factor has me very suspicious. Is it possible this is b/c she is grieving the break of the relationship and has not yet moved on mentally? Or is this a very very very bad omen that it is continuing?


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## warlock07

wrsteele1 said:


> No. I have snooped and it seems clean. I watch on myverizon who she texts now and also have her e-mail password. My guess is she pitched the old phone, but I don't know.


Ok, this might be bad news. Iphone has lot of applications that let you chat over the data connection. So, her messages won't appear on the verizon account.(Example -Ichat, many games have inchat access in them that isn't obvious) The timing of acquiring the new phone is suspect. 

Has there been a spike in the data used on her plan?


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## wrsteele1

Thorburn said:


> My advise is do not expose it to the employer yet. You have time and do not make a hasty decision yet on this one.


When would you expose it to employer?


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## iheartlife

5,000 texts @ 15 seconds per text averages out to 20.8 HOURS of texting over 7 weeks.

Right now I think that's in the upper echelon of texting I've seen between emotional affair partners.

They probably exchanged I love you's. I say that because the spark for the emotional affair was helping him with the loss of his sister. But it's hard to imagine they spent 21 hours texting about that and only that.

Here is your dilemma:

You want to jump start your marriage and get it going in at least a slightly positive direction

Your wife is still in contact with the OM via work (at least)

You are not seeing any positive outcome from MC and all your efforts at restoring the marriage.

Here is why you're in the dilemma:

She entered into an escapist, hidden fantasy with the OM. Hard to say without reading the texts, but we can expect that they at least expressed some type of loyalty / devotion / I love you's. We can deduce that from the MASSIVE volume of texts, close to being unprecedented, as well as the ILYBINILWY speech to you.

Perhaps they took the relationship underground and are communicating some other way--that is extremely common and this relationship has many earmarks of a powerful infatuation.

But regardless, she still gets a "hit" from the OM just by being around him at work. She can't go through withdrawal from the compulsion of fantasizing about him because she still gets enough of a hit to stay attached.

MC is a fabulously pointless and wasted exercise when there are 3 people in the marriage. MC is hard work. It's rather unpleasant, frankly. Fantasy affairs, infatuation, that is probably the most fun she's had in a while. She's powerfully motivated to keep the flame alive for the OM and powerfully motivated not to work on the marriage with you.

I would try to confirm and verify they aren't in contact right now before taking the next step. I would also see if there was any way to read some of their texts. You are right that the volume is a betrayal to the marriage alone (when she should be working or spending time with YOU) but it will help you know better what you're dealing with.


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## Thorburn

wrsteele1 said:


> This is what I'm trying to do, thank you. Do you agree with other posters that I should tell man's wife and her employer? And that I should ultimatum her to quit her job?


exposure to the family is IMO a good move. Expose it to his family.

I would hold off on HR and her work place (my opinion only). You have time to do this but think it through first and wait.


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## warlock07

And why did you believe the OM if you did not see the texts? How did you even believe his words that he thought you were ok with it?


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## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> Ok, this might be bad news. Iphone has lot of applications that let you chat over the data connection. So, her messages won't appear on the verizon account.(Example -Ichat, many games have inchat access in them that isn't obvious) The timing of acquiring the new phone is suspect.
> 
> Has there been a spike in the data used on her plan?


Yes, there has been a spike in data. How do I find this out?


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## sandc

wrsteele1 said:


> I don't understand how filing for divorce makes anything better. I don't want divorce so this is a step towards an ending I don't want. Shouldn't I avoid that? Am I missing something?


It will show her you are serious. She knows you will cave in to her no matter what she does. Show her you are strong and will be fine no matter what she decides. Even if you wouldn't be fine. Don't let her know that.

The advice that these guys give can seem counter-intuitive but after reading so many threads just like yours, I'm seeing that these methods work. Listen to these guys.


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## warlock07

Don't inform the HR yet. You need better proof than this. Get some evidence first. You are being played by both of them.


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## warlock07

wrsteele1 said:


> Yes, there has been a spike in data. How do I find this out?


Any iphone experts here? I remember someone telling me that you cannot recover ichat texts. But that may have changed.

How competent is she technically?

What about you?


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## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> 5,000 texts @ 15 seconds per text averages out to 20.8 HOURS of texting over 7 weeks.
> 
> Right now I think that's in the upper echelon of texting I've seen between emotional affair partners.
> 
> They probably exchanged I love you's. I say that because the spark for the emotional affair was helping him with the loss of his sister. But it's hard to imagine they spent 21 hours texting about that and only that.
> 
> Here is your dilemma:
> 
> You want to jump start your marriage and get it going in at least a slightly positive direction
> 
> Your wife is still in contact with the OM via work (at least)
> 
> You are not seeing any positive outcome from MC and all your efforts at restoring the marriage.
> 
> Here is why you're in the dilemma:
> 
> She entered into an escapist, hidden fantasy with the OM. Hard to say without reading the texts, but we can expect that they at least expressed some type of loyalty / devotion / I love you's. We can deduce that from the MASSIVE volume of texts, close to being unprecedented, as well as the ILYBINILWY speech to you.
> 
> Perhaps they took the relationship underground and are communicating some other way--that is extremely common and this relationship has many earmarks of a powerful infatuation.
> 
> But regardless, she still gets a "hit" from the OM just by being around him at work. She can't go through withdrawal from the compulsion of fantasizing about him because she still gets enough of a hit to stay attached.
> 
> MC is a fabulously pointless and wasted exercise when there are 3 people in the marriage. MC is hard work. It's rather unpleasant, frankly. Fantasy affairs, infatuation, that is probably the most fun she's had in a while. She's powerfully motivated to keep the flame alive for the OM and powerfully motivated not to work on the marriage with you.
> 
> I would try to confirm and verify they aren't in contact right now before taking the next step. I would also see if there was any way to read some of their texts. You are right that the volume is a betrayal to the marriage alone (when she should be working or spending time with YOU) but it will help you know better what you're dealing with.


Thank you so much for this perspective. I will try again on the texts. What if I can't get the texts? I believe they are gone. How do I find out what I'm dealing with? What do you suggest I do next?


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## MattMatt

wrsteele1 said:


> He is married with 3 kids. I don't know for sure I guess. But I believe it was not physical.
> 
> Supposedly, the gentlemen in the affair thought I knew about the exchanges as she was his support during a difficult time.?


Now, why would the 'gentleman' in the affair think that you knew about the exchanges?

Could it be that your wife lied to him? Told him "Oh, my husband is perfectly happy with this whole thing! He gave me his permission!"

If that's so, what did she tell him you gave her permission to do? 

From what you say, your wife is waiting for you to leave so she can do whatever SHE wants as the poor abandoned woman.

Perhaps she thinks she can replace the OMs wife and children? That he'll say: "Yes! Of course I'll rid myself of my family so I can be with you!"

Some 'Christians' do not want to break the rules, but they'll bend them enough so they get what the want, no matter how many innocent people they hurt in the process.


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## warlock07

Don't confront her too early without any proof, ok?

Can you get access to her phone for some time or does she cling to it like it is her life?


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## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> And why did you believe the OM if you did not see the texts? How did you even believe his words that he thought you were ok with it?


because I'm stupid (no seriously)


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## wrsteele1

wrsteele1 said:


> because I'm stupid (no seriously)


Actually I guess it was because he was convincing and genuine.


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## Thorburn

Your wife is working with powerful ego driven men. I worked as a hospital chaplain for years. They have plenty of time to hook up. Your scenerio of them working in a room with 5 others for a day does not add up, believe me, this is not the typical day in all the hospital settings I worked. Your wife and the OM would have plenty of down time.

Don't file for Divorce. You are not ready or willing. That is OK. 

Go secret. VARs are great. I just used two over the past week to check up on my wife and it proved that she is living up to her promise to stay straight. You should know your wife's patterns. Where does she go in the house to talk on the phone? If she has a burner phone she is going to talk freely somewhere. Set some up around the house or outside if she likes to talk there. I know where my wife talked when she was staying at her brother's house over the past tow weeks. It was easy to set the VAR's to capture her phone conversations. She had a pattern of where she liked to sit and chat. I got it all. And fortunately for me it was nothing. I just needed to know if she was or not.

As to your wife I suspect a lot more and that it went physical.


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> What can HR do? I have not considered this angle.
> 
> I don't understand how filing for divorce makes anything better. I don't want divorce so this is a step towards an ending I don't want. Shouldn't I avoid that? Am I missing something?


It's like Viet Nam: you have to burn the village to save it.

Your wife says she doesn't love you, that's slightly worse than ILYBINILWY. You need to shake things up. To find out what's going on here with your wife's head, google this string: *brain sex dopamine norepinephrine*. Basically, any contact, but especially sex, with OM puts your WW on a cracklike high. She's addicted, which is mainly why it's unlikely she gave him up so easy.

Divorce filings, not threats of same, occasionally snap the WW out her dopamine induced high long enough to see reality.

If the A is really over and you want to keep your wife (probably more trouble than it's worth) you need to build attraction. A divorce filing works for this purpose as well.

You mention you wife's parents are Christian, what about you and your wife?


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## iheartlife

Machiavelli said:


> She's put the iphone on her plan and maybe she's using the old BB under a side plan as an affair phone.
> 
> Get a VAR and some upholstery grade heavy velcro and attach it to the underside of her driver's seat. You may get some voice traffic on her commute and lunch time.
> 
> Put a keylogger on her computer. You can get into her email and see if she's getting e-billed for a second phone plan.
> 
> In the meantime, dig around in her car and see if you can find her old phone.
> 
> The surveillance will tell you if the affair is really over or if it's gone underground.


This.

But again, just seeing him at work is enough of a "hit."

You would need to get her BB if that is what she used for texting and you wanted to try to see the old texts. Maybe she's saved it somewhere so she can peruse the texts and daydream?


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## MattMatt

wrsteele1 said:


> He is an anesthesiologist and she is a nurse. It is a hospital chain and most days they have little meaningful contact (because they would be in different surgical rooms most days). Maybe once every 4 weeks they are in a room together with about 5 other people all day.
> 
> He is married with 3 kids.


Oh, God! Not another 'God's Gift' Doctor and a nurse?! What IS it with these people? :wtf:

No boundaries, grumble, grumble...


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## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> Don't confront her too early without any proof, ok?
> 
> Can you get access to her phone for some time or does she cling to it like it is her life?


She clings. But I've looked at it occassionally. Nothing suspicious now on it. How do I get proof if she's using some app to communicate other than text? I can probably grab it at night. She might catch me but what's she going to do, get mad?

What if I can't get proof, what then?


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## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> This.
> 
> But again, just seeing him at work is enough of a "hit."
> 
> You would need to get her BB if that is what she used for texting and you wanted to try to see the old texts. Maybe she's saved it somewhere so she can peruse the texts and daydream?


She deleted the texts from the BB so I couldn't see them about a month ago. Even if she still has it there's nothing on it.


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## warlock07

Place like hospitals nurture bonds beyond the profession due to the nature of the jobs. Some take advantage of that


----------



## Complexity

MattMatt said:


> Oh, God! Not another 'God's Gift' Doctor and a nurse?! What IS it with these people? :wtf:
> 
> No boundaries, grumble, grumble...


Keko was right I guess, nurses are the biggest cheaters.


----------



## wrsteele1

Machiavelli said:


> It's like Viet Nam: you have to burn the village to save it.
> 
> Your wife says she doesn't love you, that's slightly worse than ILYBINILWY. You need to shake things up. To find out what's going on here with your wife's head, google this string: *brain sex dopamine norepinephrine*. Basically, any contact, but especially sex, with OM puts your WW on a cracklike high. She's addicted, which is mainly why it's unlikely she gave him up so easy.
> 
> Divorce filings, not threats of same, occasionally snap the WW out her dopamine induced high long enough to see reality.
> 
> If the A is really over and you want to keep your wife (probably more trouble than it's worth) you need to build attraction. A divorce filing works for this purpose as well.
> 
> You mention you wife's parents are Christian, what about you and your wife?


Non-practicing former Christian. Thinking of taking family back to church pronto.


----------



## warlock07

Some senior members can help you retrieve messages from the old phone even if they are deleted. Don't lose hope. If all fails, you can try bluffing.How competent are you technically?


----------



## warlock07

Can you jailbreak an iphone?


----------



## wrsteele1

Thorburn said:


> Your wife is working with powerful ego driven men. I worked as a hospital chaplain for years. They have plenty of time to hook up. Your scenerio of them working in a room with 5 others for a day does not add up, believe me, this is not the typical day in all the hospital settings I worked. Your wife and the OM would have plenty of down time.
> 
> Don't file for Divorce. You are not ready or willing. That is OK.
> 
> Go secret. VARs are great. I just used two over the past week to check up on my wife and it proved that she is living up to her promise to stay straight. You should know your wife's patterns. Where does she go in the house to talk on the phone? If she has a burner phone she is going to talk freely somewhere. Set some up around the house or outside if she likes to talk there. I know where my wife talked when she was staying at her brother's house over the past tow weeks. It was easy to set the VAR's to capture her phone conversations. She had a pattern of where she liked to sit and chat. I got it all. And fortunately for me it was nothing. I just needed to know if she was or not.
> 
> As to your wife I suspect a lot more and that it went physical.


What is a VAR? Where do I get one? She doesn't really talk on the phone, hardly at all to anyone. If she is talking on the phone to him car is my only guess.


----------



## Thorburn

wrsteele1 said:


> She deleted the texts from the BB so I couldn't see them about a month ago. Even if she still has it there's nothing on it.


Forget the BB.

Back off a little on her.

Start with VARs in car and around the house.

Put a GPS on her car.

What is her schedule like and what is her normal routine?

What is your responce to her statements that she does not love you?

Is she an OR nurse?


----------



## Jibril

wrsteele1 said:


> I don't understand how filing for divorce makes anything better. I don't want divorce so this is a step towards an ending I don't want. Shouldn't I avoid that? Am I missing something?


I'm going to be blunt (sorry) - it doesn't matter what you want. If she is truly having an affair, she has already made the decision _for_ you. Therein lies the rub - you've already been abandoned. The decision to divorce is an act that gives you control over your life. You need to be prepared to move on, because your wife may very well not _want_ to reconcile with you if she is having an affair.

This is bleak, and it may be entirely possible that she's not having an affair. However - considering her attitude, statements and general demeanor towards you, I think it's safe to assume she is having an affair in some form or another. 

Now, if you want to expose the affair with genuine data, consider getting a voice activated recorder and sticking it in her car (under her seat). You may catch her in compromising conversations with the device.

Ultimately, the decision is yours. I know you don't want to divorce, but you may have to go through it if she doesn't shape-up. You need to be prepared for that possibility.


----------



## TBT

warlock07 said:


> And why did you believe the OM if you did not see the texts? How did you even believe his words that he thought you were ok with it?


:iagree:

And where the heck was his wife if he needed a shoulder to cry on? She's probably clueless about the whole situation!


----------



## JustWaiting

You know she's twitterpated and in a fog. You can get intel through VAR and other methods, but you can't really do much right now; and you certainly can't really confront and should not do so until you have something incontrovertible. 

For background, if you ask my kids, they will tell you they walked in on my wife and best man/friend trying to kill me. So, when I tell you to be patient and that there really is hope, I'm not talking out of my a$$. My wife has no idea how we ever got there, and we are about to celebrate an anniversarysary tomorrow that I never believed would happen.

You may or may not have a future with your wife; you may be the only one right now who wants a future. It may all get worse before it gets better. That's reality. Sit back and respect yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

Thorburn said:


> Forget the BB.
> 
> Back off a little on her.
> 
> Start with VARs in car and around the house.
> 
> Put a GPS on her car.
> 
> What is her schedule like and what is her normal routine?
> 
> What is your responce to her statements that she does not love you?
> 
> Is she an OR nurse?


Put a GPS like a Garmin or something? Thurs and Fri she off. Fridays I've been spending with her. Sometimes takes kids to daycare Thurs, sometimes not.

Yes she is an OR nurse.

I generally don't respond to those statements. I do gripe at her plenty though. I know its counterproductive but controlling my anger and frustration is an ongoing process.


----------



## wrsteele1

TBT said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And where the heck was his wife if he needed a shoulder to cry on? She's probably clueless about the whole situation!


She is mostly clueless, knows some contact but not extent according to him. Sister committed suicide was mentally ill and sister had major issues with mans wife due to mental illness of sister and mans wife not wanting sister around kids due to risk to kids. Results in not being able to talk to wife.

No point in rehashing this point I guess. It was unforunate perfect storm but doesn't change the here and now.


----------



## wrsteele1

JustWaiting said:


> You know she's twitterpated and in a fog. You can get intel through VAR and other methods, but you can't really do much right now; and you certainly can't really confront and should not do so until you have something incontrovertible.
> 
> For background, if you ask my kids, they will tell you they walked in on my wife and best man/friend trying to kill me. So, when I tell you to be patient and that there really is hope, I'm not talking out of my a$$. My wife has no idea how we ever got there, and we are about to celebrate an anniversarysary tomorrow that I never believed would happen.
> 
> You may or may not have a future with your wife; you may be the only one right now who wants a future. It may all get worse before it gets better. That's reality. Sit back and respect yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for this. Any advice on how to stay when things are so bad and I want to leave every second of every day. Even though I want to reconcile with her?


----------



## Thorburn

wrsteele1 said:


> What is a VAR? Where do I get one? She doesn't really talk on the phone, hardly at all to anyone. If she is talking on the phone to him car is my only guess.


Voice activated recorder. I pick up two at radio Shack for about $80.00 each. 560 hours of recording time. Easy to set up. Two AAA batteries. Don't get the ones that you have to recharge. These were great for home and outside the home. I did not try them in a car. I would get more expensive ones for the car that eliminates some of the car sounds. Look online and you will see some good ones and more details.

Then set one up in the car. The house might not work for you if you feel she is not talking there. Keep this in mind. If she is cheating and has a burner phone she might be talking in the house. She will feel safe knowing her phone is not being checked or tracked. I don't know your wife and if you think she is not talking in the house then follow your instincts. 

Most cheaters will talk in their cars. So VAR in the car has good results.


----------



## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> Can you jailbreak an iphone?


what does that mean?


----------



## wrsteele1

JustWaiting said:


> You know she's twitterpated and in a fog. You can get intel through VAR and other methods, but you can't really do much right now; and you certainly can't really confront and should not do so until you have something incontrovertible.
> 
> For background, if you ask my kids, they will tell you they walked in on my wife and best man/friend trying to kill me. So, when I tell you to be patient and that there really is hope, I'm not talking out of my a$$. My wife has no idea how we ever got there, and we are about to celebrate an anniversarysary tomorrow that I never believed would happen.
> 
> You may or may not have a future with your wife; you may be the only one right now who wants a future. It may all get worse before it gets better. That's reality. Sit back and respect yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you believe I should tell the other wife?


----------



## wrsteele1

Does anyone know is there a way to check her Iphone how she is using her data?


----------



## Thorburn

wrsteele1 said:


> Put a GPS like a Garmin or something? Thurs and Fri she off. Fridays I've been spending with her. Sometimes takes kids to daycare Thurs, sometimes not.
> 
> Yes she is an OR nurse.
> 
> I generally don't respond to those statements. I do gripe at her plenty though. I know its counterproductive but controlling my anger and frustration is an ongoing process.


You need a GPS tracker. It worked for me. My youngest son installed it on my wife's (his mother's) car and that is how we busted her. We bought a cheap one that used a cell phone and hot wired it into her car. We had live feed as to where she was on line. The cheap one was not real time accurate but she was in a rural area and it worked for us. When she was in the city it showed her 4 blocks away from her real location so for city use it was not very good in real time. Once it populated the history then it was dead on.

I would spend more money on a GPS tracker if you are in a city or town environment. Location is also key. they can be found and sometime placement can effect the signal. Mine worked good under the dash. Funny, I can see it when I am in my wife's car and she is clueless.


----------



## warlock07

wrsteele1 said:


> what does that mean?


to install spying apps, you need to crack the phone. Oh Boy!!

Can you afford a PI?


----------



## Thorburn

wrsteele1 said:


> Does anyone know is there a way to check her Iphone how she is using her data?


keko had this link:

Way to retrieve deleted text messages from iphone - Truth About Deception


----------



## wrsteele1

what is a good spy app? There is no PW.


----------



## MattMatt

JustWaiting said:


> For background, if you ask my kids, they will tell you they walked in on my wife and best man/friend trying to kill me.


Oh... my... God!

How in the hell did you and your poor kids cope with that???


----------



## wrsteele1

On a different note: suppose it is either no longer physical or never was, and that the EA is cut off.

Then what? How long does it take for her to start reconnecting to me? And how do I promote that?


----------



## Machiavelli

Complexity said:


> Keko was right I guess, nurses are the biggest cheaters.


Yeah, and the docs they do.


----------



## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> On a different note: suppose it is either no longer physical or never was, and that the EA is cut off.
> 
> Then what? How long does it take for her to start reconnecting to me? And how do I promote that?


First question for you on this angle: Does she make more than you do?


----------



## TBT

wrsteele1 said:


> She is mostly clueless, knows some contact but not extent according to him. Sister committed suicide was mentally ill and sister had major issues with mans wife due to mental illness of sister and mans wife not wanting sister around kids due to risk to kids. Results in not being able to talk to wife.
> 
> No point in rehashing this point I guess. It was unforunate perfect storm but doesn't change the here and now.


You're right about not rehashing if you got the info about the OM's wife/sister relationship from a trusted source.I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation and trying to figure out which side is up.Take care.


----------



## Will_Kane

As long as he is "in her head" she will not re-connect. If she sees him periodically, she will not re-connect. 

Think about old girlfriends you broke up with. When you didn't see them for a few months, the memory faded and you moved on.

Expect the same from your wife. Anywhere from a few days to a few weeks until you start to notice her coming back.


----------



## wrsteele1

Machiavelli said:


> First question for you on this angle: Does she make more than you do?


Don't understand, but I'll play: no, not particularly close


----------



## wrsteele1

TBT said:


> You're right about not rehashing if you got the info about the OM's wife/sister relationship from a trusted source.I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation and trying to figure out which side is up.Take care.


Thank you very much. I'm undecided about whether to wreck their world again by telling his wife about this. But I'm leaning on doing it because as time goes on I suspect I may not have the whole truth.


----------



## wrsteele1

Should I contact the guy and tell him I will tell his wife unless he finds new employment? Or would I be better off just dealing with my wife and stay away from him?


----------



## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> Don't understand, but I'll play: no, not particularly close


That's very good. Guys who are SAHD or making less than WW are at an extreme disadvantage in building attraction.

Here's some counterintuitive stuff. 

Your wife already subconsciously, and perhaps consciously, devalued you before her A started. This is how she gave herself permission to cross lines in her behavior at several steps along the way. Once you knew about the A and failed to act forcefully to reclaim her or kick her to the curb, your stock of man value dropped again, in her eyes. Otherwise, she would have been on all fours begging you to take her. Her expressions of remorse would be ever before you. The more you behave in "reasonable and rational" mode after exposure, the greater her contempt for you will become. She's responding to limbic type cues and bad boy adulterous doctor rings more chimes than cuckolded husband trying to get things back to where they were. Your stock goes ever lower.

Women also take their attraction cues from other women. Does your wife see other women checking you out at parties, sporting events, concerts, etc? If not, she thinks you're desperate to keep her because you have no options. Men with options are more attractive. How's your shoulder/waist ratio? BF percentage? If you're not doing so already, start working out on a muscle mass building weights training plan. Update your wardrobe and do something different with your hair. This kind of stuff actually works, but it's only rarely successful if OM is in the picture. Start announcing your going out and leaving the house all spiffed up. This will probably send her into orbit. If you act like you have options and you're working yourself over to make yourself even more attractive to women, you will probably make yourself more attractive to her.

Google "No More MR. Nice Guy" by Glover and "Married Man Sex Life" by Kay. Get them and read them ASAP.


----------



## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> what is a good spy app? There is no PW.


Look up "iphone spy stick".


----------



## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> Should I contact the guy and tell him I will tell his wife unless he finds new employment? Or would I be better off just dealing with my wife and stay away from him?


No!!! Never reveal your battle plan to the enemy! Investigate first, get rock solid proof, then expose to the OM's BW like 12/7/41.


----------



## JustWaiting

Machiavelli has good advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

You need a cohesive plan. You are getting good advice, but you need to put it in the proper order. Different posters here will advise you to take different first steps.

For the time being, lay low, do not let on to your wife that your suspicions are raised, continue as normal, and investigate.

Don't do anything that she will catch you at. It will just make her take it further underground.

A good start is the voice-activated recorder in the car.

If you can get gps on the car or keylogger on the computer that will help. If you can recover texts, that will help. If you have hard evidence, that will make it easier as you deal with everyone else to break up the affair and establish no contact. Without it, your wife will continue to deny.

You are in a relatively good position, it appears, at this point. The other man has a wife and kids, thus, as far as you know, he cannot commit to your wife and it is much more likely that, when confronted, he will throw your wife under the bus. This will snap her out of her fog quick.

If you have the means, you could hire a private eye.

If you don't find anything in a week of investigating, then move on with the other steps without evidence. You already have the 5,000 texts in two months. That is an addiction. It did not just end. If you don't find additional evidence this week, you can start by telling the other man's wife about the number of texts exchanged, your wife's behavior, and your concern that their may be an emotional or physical affair ongoing, and ask for her help in watching what goes on from his end and helping you end it.

Do not talk to the other man again. Anything you say to him gives him an advantage over you, helps him to plan and hide the affair and undermine your efforts to expose the affair and have people believe you. Do not warn or threaten him or your wife about exposure.

You can't expose to their employer unless you have evidence to back it up, such as inappropriate use of hospital time or equipment. For example, if hours of texts occurred during work hours, you could bring that to their attention, if you learn from your investigation that they conducted a physical affair at work, you could expose that to them.

After you expose to the other man's wife, the next step would be to confront your wife. Tell her that her story does not make sense. Tell her that 5,000 texts in two months could not possibly be all about his sister's suicide, you refuse to believe it. Push hard on this and stand firm. Tell her she is a horrible liar and after seven years and having kids together at least she should have the decency to at least tell you a good lie. Tell her you know based on her behavior, how your marriage was fine before the so-called emotional affair and how it is now, how she deleted all texts so you couldn't see them, and how even now she hides everything from you, that you know there was much more to the affair and you know it must still be going on. Tell her you need the truth or you will divorce her. Ask her to take a polygraph. She might not like it, but certainly, based on the number of texts, her deleting them, and her behavior, she can understand why you wouldn't believe her. If the situation was reversed, and you really weren't still involved in the affair, wouldn't you submit to one just to prove to your wife that you were telling the truth?

If she refuses to submit to the polygraph, file for divorce. Yes, you are taking a step toward something you don't want. You also are taking a step toward something she doesn't want. If she wanted it, she would have gone for it already. She may plan to divorce you in the future. The other man probably is stringing her along, hinting or telling her that he has to do this or wait for that to occur, then he will be able to divorce his wife.

Your wife is not leaving you because she is waiting on the other man. When you expose to the other man's wife, coupled with filing for divorce after your wife refuses to meet your conditions, will result in your wife pushing the other man and he will throw her under the bus.

You will have to adjust this plan based on what you find as you investigate. I recommend investigating for a short time, about a week, to see what you can find before taking any other actions.


----------



## wrsteele1

Machiavelli said:


> That's very good. Guys who are SAHD or making less than WW are at an extreme disadvantage in building attraction.
> 
> Here's some counterintuitive stuff.
> 
> Your wife already subconsciously, and perhaps consciously, devalued you before her A started. This is how she gave herself permission to cross lines in her behavior at several steps along the way. Once you knew about the A and failed to act forcefully to reclaim her or kick her to the curb, your stock of man value dropped again, in her eyes. Otherwise, she would have been on all fours begging you to take her. Her expressions of remorse would be ever before you. The more you behave in "reasonable and rational" mode after exposure, the greater her contempt for you will become. She's responding to limbic type cues and bad boy adulterous doctor rings more chimes than cuckolded husband trying to get things back to where they were. Your stock goes ever lower.
> 
> Women also take their attraction cues from other women. Does your wife see other women checking you out at parties, sporting events, concerts, etc? If not, she thinks you're desperate to keep her because you have no options. Men with options are more attractive. How's your shoulder/waist ratio? BF percentage? If you're not doing so already, start working out on a muscle mass building weights training plan. Update your wardrobe and do something different with your hair. This kind of stuff actually works, but it's only rarely successful if OM is in the picture. Start announcing your going out and leaving the house all spiffed up. This will probably send her into orbit. If you act like you have options and you're working yourself over to make yourself even more attractive to women, you will probably make yourself more attractive to her.
> 
> Google "No More MR. Nice Guy" by Glover and "Married Man Sex Life" by Kay. Get them and read them ASAP.


Laid some ground work for this. Lost 20 lbs in last 5 weeks by 6-7 days a week of exercise and going on the 1st diet of my life (at 29 y/o). Can't go anywhere without getting compliments. I announced a few days ago that I was no longer wearing my wedding ring until she made some basic committments. I told her I couldn't guarantee if I found some hottie that I would be able to resist her. I can turn up the heat on this strategy if you think it could work (minus the threatening to cheat), but it has proved fruitless so far. My wife swears she DOES find me attractive.

However, if you asked 100 people to describe me in one word 95 of them would either say "smart" or "rational"


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> You need a cohesive plan. You are getting good advice, but you need to put it in the proper order. Different posters here will advise you to take different first steps.
> 
> For the time being, lay low, do not let on to your wife that your suspicions are raised, continue as normal, and investigate.
> 
> Don't do anything that she will catch you at. It will just make her take it further underground.
> 
> A good start is the voice-activated recorder in the car.
> 
> If you can get gps on the car or keylogger on the computer that will help. If you can recover texts, that will help. If you have hard evidence, that will make it easier as you deal with everyone else to break up the affair and establish no contact. Without it, your wife will continue to deny.
> 
> You are in a relatively good position, it appears, at this point. The other man has a wife and kids, thus, as far as you know, he cannot commit to your wife and it is much more likely that, when confronted, he will throw your wife under the bus. This will snap her out of her fog quick.
> 
> If you have the means, you could hire a private eye.
> 
> If you don't find anything in a week of investigating, then move on with the other steps without evidence. You already have the 5,000 texts in two months. That is an addiction. It did not just end. If you don't find additional evidence this week, you can start by telling the other man's wife about the number of texts exchanged, your wife's behavior, and your concern that their may be an emotional or physical affair ongoing, and ask for her help in watching what goes on from his end and helping you end it.
> 
> Do not talk to the other man again. Anything you say to him gives him an advantage over you, helps him to plan and hide the affair and undermine your efforts to expose the affair and have people believe you. Do not warn or threaten him or your wife about exposure.
> 
> You can't expose to their employer unless you have evidence to back it up, such as inappropriate use of hospital time or equipment. For example, if hours of texts occurred during work hours, you could bring that to their attention, if you learn from your investigation that they conducted a physical affair at work, you could expose that to them.
> 
> After you expose to the other man's wife, the next step would be to confront your wife. Tell her that her story does not make sense. Tell her that 5,000 texts in two months could not possibly be all about his sister's suicide, you refuse to believe it. Push hard on this and stand firm. Tell her she is a horrible liar and after seven years and having kids together at least she should have the decency to at least tell you a good lie. Tell her you know based on her behavior, how your marriage was fine before the so-called emotional affair and how it is now, how she deleted all texts so you couldn't see them, and how even now she hides everything from you, that you know there was much more to the affair and you know it must still be going on. Tell her you need the truth or you will divorce her. Ask her to take a polygraph. She might not like it, but certainly, based on the number of texts, her deleting them, and her behavior, she can understand why you wouldn't believe her. If the situation was reversed, and you really weren't still involved in the affair, wouldn't you submit to one just to prove to your wife that you were telling the truth?
> 
> If she refuses to submit to the polygraph, file for divorce. Yes, you are taking a step toward something you don't want. You also are taking a step toward something she doesn't want. If she wanted it, she would have gone for it already. She may plan to divorce you in the future. The other man probably is stringing her along, hinting or telling her that he has to do this or wait for that to occur, then he will be able to divorce his wife.
> 
> Your wife is not leaving you because she is waiting on the other man. When you expose to the other man's wife, coupled with filing for divorce after your wife refuses to meet your conditions, will result in your wife pushing the other man and he will throw her under the bus.
> 
> You will have to adjust this plan based on what you find as you investigate. I recommend investigating for a short time, about a week, to see what you can find before taking any other actions.


Thank you. I think that is helpful. It is at least an actionable plan.


----------



## wrsteele1

wrsteele1 said:


> Thank you. I think that is helpful. It is at least an actionable plan.


If I do exactly as you say, and if she does submit to a polygraph, she is still working with this person. Then what?


----------



## Will_Kane

It is tough to compete with the other man.

Many women refer to the feeling of "infatuation" as being "in love." It's the butterflies in the stomach feeling, when you're first with someone, trying to learn about them, you like them and are trying to get them to like you. It's exciting. The secrecy of the affair adds A LOT to that excitement.

No way she can feel that way with you. You have become dependable, reliable, she feels safe with you, but it no longer is a challenge for her to get you to like her.

The infatuation stage, what she probably calls "in love" feeling, usually doesn't last more than a year or two, maybe three.

*When you compete with the other man, you are competing with a fantasy*, someone who, as she sees him, doesn't really exist. With you, there are chores, housework, raising kids, cleaning bathrooms, wiping butts, etc. With the other man, there is nothing but I love you's, sex, and dreams of an idyllic life together with no hardships and no responsibilities.

*The only way to compete with a fantasy like that is to destroy it.* Let her see that the other man will throw her under the bus and won't fight for her the way you will. Let her face the real consequences of the affair, the reality of divorce, thinking about dividing up assets, finding a new place to live, and dealing with the other man as he makes excuses why he can't help her. Not long into that process, she will start to realize what she is throwing away, and for what? The other man will start to have the same blemishes that you and I and all other real people do.

You can always stop the divorce process after you start it. When cheaters are resistant to ending the affair and in the situation yours is in, sometimes divorce is the only thing that wakes them out of it.

You must be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it.

You also must start to accept that no matter what you do, you may not be able to save your marriage. You cannot control your wife. You can only control yourself and how you handle yourself, what kind of treatment you are willing to accept and for how long, and how you react to it.


----------



## Will_Kane

*If I do exactly as you say, and if she does submit to a polygraph, she is still working with this person. Then what?*

It depends what comes out in the polygraph or before the polygraph. I do not have a lot of confidence in polygraphs, usually the cheater will break down when pushed hard with how their story doesn't make sense, or they break down under fear of the polygraph, or they slip up and you find out the truth.

If the affair involved I love you's, sexting, or was a physical affair, your wife must leave the job or the other man must leave. You may, depending on the situation, have some leverage to get him to leave. Otherwise, she should leave if that's what 's needed to save your marriage. The key is that after getting the truth and exposing, that your wife starts to come out of the fog and return to wanting the marriage.

If allowed to work together, the affair has a good probability of continuing. The affair eventually will run its course. That could take about three years. Usually by that time, the affair partners lose that "in love" feeling for each other. Then, they may continue the affair out of habit, just like they had been continuing their marriages. Or they find another affair partner.


----------



## wrsteele1

Will I forgot to ask: the texts did occur at work. Would I risk causing her to leave me from anger if I revealed that to her employer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

Yes, her leaving you is always a risk. Usually, that's the first thing they do is leave. Run to the other man. Stay with a family member. Then they come back and start to snap out of the fog when they see the other man is saving his own butt and throwing them under the bus.

You are not at the point of exposure yet.

When you expose, you will expose to everyone you are going to expose to in short order. Each exposure will be short and sweet, that your wife is involved in an affair, with whom, a brief description of the new details, how she has been lying about it and you believe continuing it, and ask for support in ending the affair and saving your marriage. Her employer will be the final exposure in that chain. It will make the affair very difficult to continue.

I know you said you've exposed to her and your family, but I'm assuming that they all think she has ended it but is still having doubts. You will re-expose when you find out more of the truth, such as it was sexting, I love you's, sex, or still is ongoing. I am pretty sure you will find out these details either through investigating a little or from pushing her on how her story doesn't make sense, or even asking for a polygraph.


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Yes, her leaving you is always a risk. Usually, that's the first thing they do is leave. Run to the other man. Stay with a family member. Then they come back and start to snap out of the fog when they see the other man is saving his own butt and throwing them under the bus.
> 
> You are not at the point of exposure yet.
> 
> When you expose, you will expose to everyone you are going to expose to in short order. Each exposure will be short and sweet, that your wife is involved in an affair, with whom, a brief description of the new details, how she has been lying about it and you believe continuing it, and ask for support in ending the affair and saving your marriage. Her employer will be the final exposure in that chain. It will make the affair very difficult to continue.
> 
> I know you said you've exposed to her and your family, but I'm assuming that they all think she has ended it but is still having doubts. You will re-expose when you find out more of the truth, such as it was sexting, I love you's, sex, or still is ongoing. I am pretty sure you will find out these details either through investigating a little or from pushing her on how her story doesn't make sense, or even asking for a polygraph.


I will accept this advice. Only problem is that it is going to be difficult to catch. even when they were texting thousands of times per month they would only phone talk like 10 minutes per month. So VAR is no slam dunk. And I know there is no texting on her iphone because I monitor who she texts which was how I caught her the first time. All I can do is try though.

I will try though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> I will accept this advice. Only problem is that it is going to be difficult to catch. even when they were texting thousands of times per month they would only phone talk like 10 minutes per month. So VAR is no slam dunk. And I know there is no texting on her iphone because I monitor who she texts which was how I caught her the first time. All I can do is try though.
> 
> I will try though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She knows you monitor texting, right? There are endless apps for messaging and she may be using one of them, I don't think these would show up as texts but rather as data usage.


----------



## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> Laid some ground work for this. Lost 20 lbs in last 5 weeks by 6-7 days a week of exercise and going on the 1st diet of my life (at 29 y/o). Can't go anywhere without getting compliments. I announced a few days ago that I was no longer wearing my wedding ring until she made some basic committments. I told her I couldn't guarantee if I found some hottie that I would be able to resist her. I can turn up the heat on this strategy if you think it could work (minus the threatening to cheat), but it has proved fruitless so far. My wife swears she DOES find me attractive.



Your instincts are good, except for the cheating threat. Keep it all up. If she truly found you attractive she would behave differently, but that's probably all tied up to the fact she is still in contact with OM. Keep changing your appearance by body recomposition (less fat, more muscle). Start going out in the evening and let her deal with the kids.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> She knows you monitor texting, right? There are endless apps for messaging and she may be using one of them, I don't think these would show up as texts but rather as data usage.


this never occurred to me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

wrsteele1 said:


> this never occurred to me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Will a spy app catch this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

Does your wife agree that everything was fine with your marriage before the emotional affair?

Did she give any indication to you of what the content of the texts were?

Were they mostly during working hours or were a significant portion after hours?


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> Will a spy app catch this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It should.

On my Blackberry, which is very different from an iphone, I can choose from windows live messaging, google talk, yahoo messenger, aim, and blackberry messenger. Never used any of them, I just use texting.

You could also use a secret email account via phone, like gmail, that you could access from any computer. But a messaging app is much easier and more direct.

I'm sure there are others, I'm just telling you what my own phone has pre-loaded.


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## warlock07

wrsteele1 said:


> this never occurred to me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You might need a PI. He might help you with the forensics. Can you afford one? (Or you can get help through the board but it might be a bit difficult as a beginner)


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Does your wife agree that everything was fine with your marriage before the emotional affair?
> 
> Did she give any indication to you of what the content of the texts were?
> 
> Were they mostly during working hours or were a significant portion after hours?


Yes she agrees everything was fine. At least she did. As time goes on shes telling me she had a frustration building. But she told the therapist everything was generally good. She says the content of the texts was generally a bunch of nothing. They were 2 minutes apart for months, so they had to be short. Many many were during working hours but it was pretty much all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GTA06

Don't understand why are you holding yourself back.Feels like both of you are in confused state waiting for one of you to walk out.You said you're banging your head on to a wall .Well never try to reason with idiots they will bring you down to their level and beat you with their experience.
VAR's are a good option to begin with after all how long do you think a person is going to rely on text and msg'ing without breathing a word about it.


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## snap

wrsteele1 said:


> She says the content of the texts was generally a bunch of nothing. They were 2 minutes apart for months, so they had to be short. Many many were during working hours but it was pretty much all the time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really? Can you ever come up with five thousand text about "nothing"? There's only so much effort people would spend on discussing weather.


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## iheartlife

Well, the "nothing" part just means that they are sending filler texts around the important parts, e.g.:

Hi!

Hey!

How r u 2day?

Not good.

oh no! bad nite?

Yes. so glad u r here 4 me.

I M ALWAYS here 4 u!

What would I do w/o u?

U will NEVER B w/o me!!


etc etc....ad nauseum (meant literally)


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## Will_Kane

*Only problem is that it is going to be difficult to catch. even when they were texting thousands of times per month they would only phone talk like 10 minutes per month. So VAR is no slam dunk. And I know there is no texting on her iphone because I monitor who she texts which was how I caught her the first time. All I can do is try though.

I will try though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartlife 
She knows you monitor texting, right? There are endless apps for messaging and she may be using one of them, I don't think these would show up as texts but rather as data usage. 

this never occurred to me

Will a spy app catch this?*

Any luck getting a VAR in place? 

GPS? 

Have you looked at data usage on her phone for a spike since supposed "no contact"?


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> *Only problem is that it is going to be difficult to catch. even when they were texting thousands of times per month they would only phone talk like 10 minutes per month. So VAR is no slam dunk. And I know there is no texting on her iphone because I monitor who she texts which was how I caught her the first time. All I can do is try though.
> 
> I will try though.
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by iheartlife
> She knows you monitor texting, right? There are endless apps for messaging and she may be using one of them, I don't think these would show up as texts but rather as data usage.
> 
> this never occurred to me
> 
> Will a spy app catch this?*
> 
> Any luck getting a VAR in place?
> 
> GPS?
> 
> Have you looked at data usage on her phone for a spike since supposed "no contact"?


VAR yes, GPS no, data use is inconclusive. Swiped her cell late at night, no additional messaging app. Absolutely nothing suspicious on phone with one exception: deleted browsing history. In her texts to confidants she cites my over bearing behavior as a seperating force. My behavior has been over bearing in response to her distant nature and absent sex life. The more I think about it I wonder if all this is its her having significant contact with OM at work. If that is the case, I may be able to get her to fess to that but not sure what I will be able to change. The browser history is a big question, obviously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

This is precisely why, over and over and over again, maintaing work contact with an affair partner is a failure.

Just on the main two pages of the forum I can think of at least three or four OTHER threads where the husband is fairly sure the wife's affair has ended. The husband can't find much evidence of contact. But, oh, yeah, they see each other at work...

You really have to think of the OM has a drug. Interacting with him even at a minimal level is pleasurable to your wife. This "hit" is experienced as pleasure to her brain. Compulsions actually alter brain physiology--you actually would be able to demonstrate a difference 'before' and 'after.' They don't rise to the level of an addiction but anyone who has struggled mightily with a bad habit will tell you that they still exert a lot of power.

Anyhow, even a little hit prevents withdrawal, which she must fully experience before her infatuation will lessen and end.

It may help you to know that one-sided obsessiveness can sometimes be WORSE than if he is in full-on affair mode with her right now. Just a smile across the room fuels this type of thinking. There is a short discussion of this issue in my favorite book about the nature of affairs from a terrific researcher on infidelity, Shirley Glass (link to excerpts from her book in my signature). 

Let's turn to your being overbearing. This is because you do not trust her. WHY don't you trust her? Are you a paranoid, abusive control freak? Hardly! No, you are trying to protect your marriage. You are in a bind: you know you need to move to get her away from the OM. You can work on the marriage now and show here there is a marriage worth fully returning to. But that work will not amount to much while the OM is in the picture. You dont want to move if the marriage is going to fail anyhow, whether the OM is gone, or not.

No matter how hard it is for you to accept the advice in this thread, it boils down to this: complete separate from the OM is the last shot you have at her recommitting to the marriage and returning to you fully as the love that you married. Spying really has little value when the OM is a daily / weekly PHYSICAL presence that you cannot prevent or avoid.


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> On a different note: suppose it is either no longer physical or never was, and that the EA is cut off.
> 
> Then what? How long does it take for her to start reconnecting to me? And how do I promote that?


Married Man Sex Life Book and blog Gives you a MAP to follow ( no,its not a sex manual)


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> This is precisely why, over and over and over again, maintaing work contact with an affair partner is a failure.
> 
> Just on the main two pages of the forum I can think of at least three or four OTHER threads where the husband is fairly sure the wife's affair has ended. The husband can't find much evidence of contact. But, oh, yeah, they see each other at work...
> 
> You really have to think of the OM has a drug. Interacting with him even at a minimal level is pleasurable to your wife. This "hit" is experienced as pleasure to her brain. Compulsions actually alter brain physiology--you actually would be able to demonstrate a difference 'before' and 'after.' They don't rise to the level of an addiction but anyone who has struggled mightily with a bad habit will tell you that they still exert a lot of power.
> 
> Anyhow, even a little hit prevents withdrawal, which she must fully experience before her infatuation will lessen and end.
> 
> It may help you to know that one-sided obsessiveness can sometimes be WORSE than if he is in full-on affair mode with her right now. Just a smile across the room fuels this type of thinking. There is a short discussion of this issue in my favorite book about the nature of affairs from a terrific researcher on infidelity, Shirley Glass (link to excerpts from her book in my signature).
> 
> Let's turn to your being overbearing. This is because you do not trust her. WHY don't you trust her? Are you a paranoid, abusive control freak? Hardly! No, you are trying to protect your marriage. You are in a bind: you know you need to move to get her away from the OM. You can work on the marriage now and show here there is a marriage worth fully returning to. But that work will not amount to much while the OM is in the picture. You dont want to move if the marriage is going to fail anyhow, whether the OM is gone, or not.
> 
> No matter how hard it is for you to accept the advice in this thread, it boils down to this: complete separate from the OM is the last shot you have at her recommitting to the marriage and returning to you fully as the love that you married. Spying really has little value when the OM is a daily / weekly PHYSICAL presence that you cannot prevent or avoid.


So thankful for this post. Just bought two copies of the book on Amazon. From the contents I can tell its right up our alley. This post embodied a lot of what I'm feeling.

Since I started this thread my wife has began reading "5 Love Languages" as our therapist recommended and seems to be starting to be a little more cooperative.

At times she is nice for several days at a time but it usually breaks down when I get insecure about things, for example "deleted browsing history" and "where were you today" and "why are you not experiencing an attraction to me after all this effort from me, is HE still in the picture" etc etc etc.

I am starting to realize she has to leave her job. Only problem is I don't know how that's going to go. Sounds like I have to issue ultimatum on that point. But as we all know an ultimatum could work, or it could go totally sideways. And if it goes sideways then what? Would I really move out even though that's not what I want? Or would I accept her at her word that she's working on and stay as long as possible?

What do you do with a family member you love who has a drug problem but won't quit and instead tries to "moderate" their drug use. Would you really disown them?


----------



## iheartlife

Give a copy of the book to your therapist while you're at it, if they've never read it. The author was one of the foremost researchers into infidelity, how it starts, functions, and ends, and how marriages reconcile or break up as a result.

Is there no way she can do work in her field at a different location? That is simply out of the question?


----------



## sandc

wrsteele1 said:


> What do you do with a family member you love who has a drug problem but won't quit and instead tries to "moderate" their drug use. Would you really disown them?


I would. But I'm kind of a hard a$$ that way. I will do everything I can to help but I won't do it for them. They have to work at it too. If they refuse, I would... I have disowned them. I won't stand by and watch them slowly kill themselves. 

My situation is much different though. It wasn't my wife and there were no children involved.


----------



## domah

wrsteele1 said:


> My wife of 7 years had an emotional affair with another person, exchanging over 5,000 text messages in less than 2 months. She works with the person and has cut off non-work contact but will not leave her job. Asking her to leave her job would result in termination of my marriage most likely.
> 
> My wife has told the therapist our relationship was strong before the affair and that it started as "helping a friend through a difficult time" (his sister committed suicide last December when this started). My wife can offer me no suggestions as to anything I can do large or small to bring her joy and has told me that "she's sorry and I deserve to be with someone who makes me happy." Supposedly she wants things around the house but I have been moving the Earth at home for the past 5 weeks without so much as a positive blip as a result.
> 
> We have been going to counseling for over a month, but I am still unable to get her to say the words "I want our marriage to work and I will try my best." She has made some efforts to change, but is not doing enough of the right things nor is she interested in doing so. She has told me she doesn't love me, doesn't know if she has hope for us, and is basically just giving effort for the sake of our 2 kids. I feel that her family's strong christian background is also a reason she hasn't left (major disapointment to her family if she "quit").
> 
> I am maddened by her lack of effort and every day I feel further apart from her. There is basically 3 reasons I'm still here 1) my kids, 2) belief in marriage, and 3) she is who I want to be married too.
> 
> Complicating the situation is that she believes that there should always be romantic love in a situation. She tells me at least twice a week she does not love me. 3 times in the past week I've come so close to walking out. I have incredible difficulty controlling my anger and being patient. I feel near my breaking point due to her lack of effort.
> 
> HELP! Is there hope for us? Any suggestions?


Hello,

I'm sorry to hear about this. Right now, realize you cannot think rationally due to the emotional investment you made in your wife, and her emtional affair. For all you know, it could be more than an emotional affair, but that doesn't matter at this point.

I'm going to think clearly for you and tell you the following:

The fact your wife will not commit to your marriage is the death-knell in your marriage. I know you don't want to hear that, and I'm sorry to say it, but there is no hope at this point if she hasn't committed. You cannot convince her that she cares. Just the fact that you have to keep an eye on your wife, just to make sure she's not cheating on you tells any non-biased rational observer that your relationship is in a death-spiral.

The three reasons you state for staying in the marriage are just wishful thinking. No amount of wishful thinking will change your wife's beliefs. I'm really sorry too that your children, who are certainly innocent parties in all this, are going to be affect either way. You need decide if staying in a marriage, where your wife will likely be cheating on you in the future will benefit your children or not. My belief is, either way your children will be hurt. They are likely to be less hurt if you leave your wife.

So what can you do at this point? Well, you have two options, and in order to choose the best option, you will need to think rationally, which you readily admit you cannot do at this point. 

The first option is to stay with her, and hope that you can convince her to work on your marriage. I'll tell you right now, this will never work. I don't know how much more clear I can be, but this option will cause you much more pain than you are going through right now.

The second option is to leave the marriage. If you do it quickly, while she is not so angry with you, you might even be able to come to an agreeable separate agreement with her and not have to pay her much in alimony. The longer you wait, the less emotional attachment she will have in you, and the more likely it is she will not feel bad about getting as much alimony and child support from you as possible. I know this isn't what you want to hear, and I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news. 

I do hope you can let go of your anger for at least a while so that you can make a good judgment.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Give a copy of the book to your therapist while you're at it, if they've never read it. The author was one of the foremost researchers into infidelity, how it starts, functions, and ends, and how marriages reconcile or break up as a result.
> 
> Is there no way she can do work in her field at a different location? That is simply out of the question?


She's a nurse, she could have 10 job offers tomorrow (I think).


----------



## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> The more I think about it I wonder if all this is its her having significant contact with OM at work. If that is the case, I may be able to get her to fess to that but not sure what I will be able to change. The browser history is a big question, obviously.


Bingo. As long as they're around each other and a broom closet or a parking lot is nearby, close encounters can be achieved. Time for a new job for wife.


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> She's a nurse, she could have 10 job offers tomorrow (I think).


Can you help me out (I'm just confused). Are there no other nursing jobs in your town, or is the town so small that essentially you'd have to move away to ensure No Contact? If you think it would be easy for her to get a new job without moving, is there a reason now why you wouldn't request it (I realize she won't like the idea, but other than that why would the request be unreasonable)?


----------



## ladybird

You can start by checking her phone records. Do you have access to them?That will tell you right there if she is still talking to him.


----------



## iheartlife

ladybird said:


> You can start by checking her phone records. Do you have access to them?That will tell you right there if she is still talking to him.


I think he does, I think he's been able to see she isn't texting via the phone that she openly carries with her. The biggest issue is that they still work together.


----------



## Will_Kane

*In her texts to confidants she cites my over bearing behavior as a seperating force. My behavior has been over bearing in response to her distant nature and absent sex life.'

it usually breaks down when I get insecure about things, for example "deleted browsing history" and "where were you today" and "why are you not experiencing an attraction to me after all this effort from me, is HE still in the picture" etc etc etc.*

Totally understandable how you feel and are acting, but you have to stop this. Easier said than done, I know. 

For one thing, it is not productive. It will not get her back with you. For another thing, while she thinks you are watching her like a hawk, she is on her guard. If she thinks you got tired of watching her so closely, she may let her guard down a little. Keep your suspicions and your frustrations over the red flags to yourself at this point, let her think that you're not watching so closely, do not let her know what you know or how you know it.

Show her only peace, calm, confidence. Like you could live with her, or live without her, and it wouldn't make much difference. Do not broach the subject of the other man or her behavior or feelings. Be polite, try to look your best at all times, be on your best behavior, meaning do not let your hair down and let it all hang out like you might have done with the wife you used to know, more like you're sharing the house with an acquaintance and want to do your fair share and make a decent impression.

Lay low for a few more days, see if you can uncover any hard evidence. If not, you can confront your wife with how unbelievable her story is about remaining in no contact in light of going from 5000 texts to zero, her not showing you the texts, her deleting the browsing history, how cold she is, and you can ask for the polygraph and/or for her to leave her job or you will have to file for divorce and move on without her. If you push her hard about how unbelievable her story is and stand firm, there is a good chance she will admit to additional details about the affair. You can also expose to the other man's wife and to the hospital.

You mentioned at least a couple of time that you've come close to walking out or are still considering it. I would ask her to move out, she cheated and caused this, not you. If you move out, it could look like you're giving up on her, and not the other way around, and it might look like you're leaving your kids and family while she's still trying to work it out.


----------



## Will_Kane

Some suggestions for when you confront your wife about the marriage:

_I am very, very seriously considering filing for divorce. I am giving you one last chance. How you act in the next 15 minutes will determine whether or not I file for divorce.

I know you have been cheating on me.

I love you. I have always loved you. I want to work on our marriage. I want our marriage to be better. I want to be a better husband. I want to make you happy. I will work at being a better husband.

There have been problems in our marriage. Our problems have been the fault of both of us. We have communicated very poorly. You may believe that I am more at fault for the problems in our marriage. I may believe you are more at fault for the problems in our marriage. THE CHEATING IS 100% YOUR FAULT. You chose to cheat rather than come to me and tell me what was wrong or how unhappy you were.

Your willingness to immediately choose me over your cheating partner will go a long way toward me being able to decide not to file for divorce. By choose me I mean you give up all contact with him forever, including leaving your job immediately.

Your willingness to tell me the entire truth immediately will go a long way toward me being able to decide not to divorce you. If you do not tell me the entire truth immediately, yourself, I will file for divorce.

Your willingness to throw your cheating partner under the bus will go a long way toward me being able to decide not to file for divorce.

First, you will hand-write a letter to your cheating partner telling him that going forward the two of you will have no contact. Your letter will include your expressing how sorry you are for hurting your husband and putting the happiness of your children at risk. Your letter will include that if he ever tries to contact you again, in any way, shape or form, you will not respond to him. Your letter will include that if he tries to contact you again in any way, shape or form, you will file harassment charges against him. Your letter will NOT include any expression of concern or warmth toward your cheating partner. You will show the letter to me and I will send it via certified mail to your cheating partner.

You will immediately cease any and all contact with your cheating partner. You will never communicate with your cheating partner again for the rest of your life. There will be no last message to your cheating partner for closure. You must inform me immediately of any attempt by your cheating partner to contact you or any attempt by you to contact him. This includes leaving your job immediately.

You will tell me of any means you used to communicate with your cheating partner and give me passwords to all accounts or devices. You will block him on all of those devices and accounts. At my option, you will delete those accounts or surrender those devices until I feel comfortable. There will be no secrecy going forward. You will not delete any email messages, phone messages, or internet history from any device.

I love you. I have always loved you. I want to work on our marriage. I want our marriage to be better. I want to be a better husband. I want to make you happy. I will work at being a better husband. BUT I CAN LIVE WITHOUT YOU AND I WILL FILE FOR DIVORCE IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE CONDITIONS. I DO NOT INTEND TO LIVE THE REMAINDER OF MY LIFE IN AN UNHAPPY MARRIAGE WHERE MY WIFE IS CHEATING ON ME.

Your attitude in accepting these conditions is important. Your agreeing to them whole-heartedly and enthusiastically will go a long way toward me being able to decide not to file for divorce. I want you to accept them enthusiastically as a chance to renew and improve our marriage. _


----------



## iheartlife

Also, almost forgot--you brought up 5 Love Languages. Do you know your wife's love languages yet? Does she know yours? This is a fast jump start toward improving the relationship.

If she is willing to read that one, the next book to get her is His Needs / Her Needs (free questionnaire on the website) and Love Busters (free questionnaire on the website).



chapparal said:


> Married Man Sex Life Book and blog Gives you a MAP to follow ( no,its not a sex manual)


Chap's suggestion sort of got lost in the mix, this and No More Mr. Nice Guy many men around the forum have found extremely useful.

As has already been drummed into your head, you can't fix a marriage with 3 people in it, but if you are seeing some positive response then start reading and sharing what you read with her.

If you seem to lose ground after some positivity, however, you'll know the most likely reason why....


----------



## Chaparral

iheartlife said:


> Also, almost forgot--you brought up 5 Love Languages. Do you know your wife's love languages yet? Does she know yours? This is a fast jump start toward improving the relationship.
> 
> If she is willing to read that one, the next book to get her is His Needs / Her Needs (free questionnaire on the website) and Love Busters (free questionnaire on the website).
> 
> 
> Chap's suggestion sort of got lost in the mix, this and No More Mr. Nice Guy many men around the forum have found extremely useful.
> 
> As has already been drummed into your head, you can't fix a marriage with 3 people in it, but if you are seeing some positive response then start reading and sharing what you read with her.
> 
> If you seem to lose ground after some positivity, however, you'll know the most likely reason why....


These two books are for you. Other books mentioned are for you both.

If it comes to separating(almost always leads to divorce) make her leave if possible. If you leave her lawyers will use it against you as child abandonment.

What state do you live in, you very well may be able to tell her you will put reason for divorce as adultery even if it is a nofaukt state.

Follow Will Kanes very sound advice. Ask her for nothing. Asking for attention love etc, whinning, pleading, arguing, makes your wife think of you with disgust. Its the signs of a weak man and makes the OM her knight in shining armour. And for God's sake do not cry in front of her even if you have to leave the house. You have to convince her you will be fine leaving her and demanding 50% or more custody of your children.

Are the two of you doing any family things together?

Is she showing you any affection at all?


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Can you help me out (I'm just confused). Are there no other nursing jobs in your town, or is the town so small that essentially you'd have to move away to ensure No Contact? If you think it would be easy for her to get a new job without moving, is there a reason now why you wouldn't request it (I realize she won't like the idea, but other than that why would the request be unreasonable)?


Not a small town. I actually made it clear in the beginning that the situation was not acceptable (5 weeks ago). We started going to MC. My starting point was no non-work related contact thinking we could make some repairs. I never took asking her to leave her job off the table. In fact, I had actually told her it was fully on the table but I was using this starting point because I wanted to lay some foundations for repair (again 5 weeks ago).

5 weeks later (today), she is nicer to me and talks to me more, etc. however still ILYBNILWY and the things she claims to want still having no impact on her love barometer. Which is why I started this thread in the first place. I needed help with a new path.

I told her no contact quit your job or I'm leaving (told this morning). She refused. I hope she will change her mind. My plan is to stand firm. I am driving 2.5 hours to tell her family in person tomorrow unbeknowst to my wife, and I have called OM's wife but no answer didn't leave message.

Treading down a new strategy. I think it's going to lead to divorce. I don't expect she will leave her job. I hope I am wrong. It is now too late to turn back without being castrated.


----------



## keko

wrsteele1 said:


> I told her no contact quit your job or I'm leaving (told this morning). She refused. I hope she will change her mind.


You have to stand firm on your ultimatum's, not hope for her to change. 

When you get back from a visit to her families, pack your wife's crap in garbage bags and place them on the front lawn, tell her she isn't welcome in this house and close the door on her face. You want this to be a wake-up call not a goodbye so don't lock the door, let her come in by herself to start a conversation. At that point you will tell her your boundaries once again.....


----------



## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> Treading down a new strategy. I think it's going to lead to divorce. I don't expect she will leave her job. I hope I am wrong. It is now too late to turn back without being castrated.


If it does in divorce, it won't be because of this strategy, it will be because of your wife's adultery and her refusal to return to you, body and soul.

If her parents are religious (I mean for real, not the usual) this exposure is one of the best moves you can make.


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> These two books are for you. Other books mentioned are for you both.
> 
> If it comes to separating(almost always leads to divorce) make her leave if possible. If you leave her lawyers will use it against you as child abandonment.
> 
> What state do you live in, you very well may be able to tell her you will put reason for divorce as adultery even if it is a nofaukt state.
> 
> Follow Will Kanes very sound advice. Ask her for nothing. Asking for attention love etc, whinning, pleading, arguing, makes your wife think of you with disgust. Its the signs of a weak man and makes the OM her knight in shining armour. And for God's sake do not cry in front of her even if you have to leave the house. You have to convince her you will be fine leaving her and demanding 50% or more custody of your children.
> 
> Are the two of you doing any family things together?
> 
> Is she showing you any affection at all?


Yes, showing some affection, because she read 5 Love Languages, yes, still doing family stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Also, almost forgot--you brought up 5 Love Languages. Do you know your wife's love languages yet? Does she know yours? This is a fast jump start toward improving the relationship.
> 
> If she is willing to read that one, the next book to get her is His Needs / Her Needs (free questionnaire on the website) and Love Busters (free questionnaire on the website).
> 
> 
> Chap's suggestion sort of got lost in the mix, this and No More Mr. Nice Guy many men around the forum have found extremely useful.
> 
> As has already been drummed into your head, you can't fix a marriage with 3 people in it, but if you are seeing some positive response then start reading and sharing what you read with her.
> 
> If you seem to lose ground after some positivity, however, you'll know the most likely reason why....


Supposedly her language is "Acts of Service." I've bet the farm on this the last 5 weeks with minimal/non-existent results. Just to be safe I also spread into quality time and gifts. But I'm pretty sure its acts of service. Mine is physical touch: she has done some effort from her end but our sex life and intimacy is non-existent so I definitely have a "net negative" every day.

I bought "Not Just Friends" thats going to take me some time. What should I read first?

Of course, ultimately at this point she has a decision to make whether to leave her job, so a lot is out of my hands right now.


----------



## Chaparral

Don't forget to inform Hospital HR dept. Let them know you will be following up on possible legal remedies.


----------



## wrsteele1

Here's a question I really need advice on: I've told her she must leave her job or I will leave. She said "I am not leaving my job." I'm doubling down on this strategy by sharing with her family: and sharing that my intentions are to get her away from OM so we can rebuild, and that if I leave her it will be because of a choice my wife made. This way I can hopefully get her family to say "Liz you really need to choose your family."

So my question is: what do I do now? She won't move out. If I move out I've been suggested by someone who's been there it will amount to giving up custody of my kids if it goes to divorce. So where do I go from here? Please don't say file for divorce unless theres nothing else. I don't want to do that unless I absolutely have too.


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> Don't forget to inform Hospital HR dept. Let them know you will be following up on possible legal remedies.


Is getting my wife fired really going to help my marriage? I can see lots of negative consequences in my wallet if I pull this one.


----------



## GTdad

wrsteele1 said:


> Is getting my wife fired really going to help my marriage? I can see lots of negative consequences in my wallet if I pull this one.


A subject of at least a couple of arguments here that I've been involved in. I'd put it like this: her losing that job could very well go a long ways towards helping your marriage. Her losing her job could very well hurt you financially in a divorce. So, I guess it depends on what you want, and how you see this working out.


----------



## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> Here's a question I really need advice on: I've told her she must leave her job or I will leave. She said "I am not leaving my job." I'm doubling down on this strategy by sharing with her family: and sharing that my intentions are to get her away from OM so we can rebuild, and that if I leave her it will be because of a choice my wife made. This way I can hopefully get her family to say "Liz you really need to choose your family."
> 
> So my question is: what do I do now? She won't move out. If I move out I've been suggested by someone who's been there it will amount to giving up custody of my kids if it goes to divorce. So where do I go from here? Please don't say file for divorce unless theres nothing else. I don't want to do that unless I absolutely have too.


You don't move out. If she won't quit after some date known only to you, you file.


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> Is getting my wife fired really going to help my marriage? I can see lots of negative consequences in my wallet if I pull this one.


Is there a difference in quiting and getting fired? 

If she won't drop contact with OM, ie her job, she is not going to come back around.

It might be time for the 180. I'm on vacation and don't have the link.


----------



## keko

wrsteele1 said:


> So my question is: what do I do now? She won't move out. If I move out I've been suggested by someone who's been there it will amount to giving up custody of my kids if it goes to divorce. So where do I go from here? Please don't say file for divorce unless theres nothing else. I don't want to do that unless I absolutely have too.


*DO NOT* move out of the home. You did nothing wrong why should you move? Want to take a guess who will fill your place once you move out? 

You can't legally kick her out but do as I said earlier and that might be her last wake up call or if she leaves for good it'll help you in child custody if it goes to D.


----------



## Chaparral

What is your wife saying about divorce? She doesn't love you but she wants to stay married?

Maybe you should download your states divorce packet and leave it where she can see it. You mayhave to pick the packet up at the court house if its not available online.

You should also open a separate bank acct. 

Do you think it will help you sitch if she sees you are serious about moving on?


----------



## moxy

wrsteele1 said:


> Supposedly, the *gentlemen* in the affair thought I knew about the exchanges as she was his support during a difficult time.


This guy is NOT a gentleman, he's a slimeball.
-- He should have been leaning on HIS wife for support, not on yours. If he can't talk to his wife, he should be talking to a counselor.
-- He's trying to make it seem like you're jealous and petty to throw you off the scent and make it about your complicity, when it isn't. He knows he was over the line and is now trying to say that you were okay with it so it was your responsibility. Bull-S***.
-- He's used his so-called grief to bond with your wife; that's really skeezy (and sadly, it isn't uncommon). Maybe he feels sad about losing his sis, but he's using that as an excuse to bond with your wife. 





wrsteele1 said:


> I don't know whether to believe. My wife is pretty convincing that she ended it.
> 
> Why do you think it is "likely" that the affair did not end? And how should I deal with that possibility?


Cheating spouses lie, even when the cheating is just an emotional affair. They behave like addicts. She says that before this guy came along, you guys were fine. However, she is clinging to her crush instead of feeling love for you. She is emotionally and romantically checked out because she has bonded with this guy. Being someone's savior is a powerful feeling and she likes feeling important to this guy. Whether or not she is still in active communication with the guy, the bond is still there and until that bond is broken, she can't bond with you and will only see you as the wet blanket and killjoy of her fun.

Do not take her word or his word about whether or not it's over. They would most likely lie to protect their "friendship". You should read "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass. You should do some independent surveillance to see if they are still in communication or not. While she is still attached to the OM, it will be very difficult to restore your marriage. 

Stay in counseling. Figure out what was missing for her that she chose to attach to this guy; did she not feel she was important to you or needed by you in a way that she does with OM? Figuring out why she strayed is the first step to preventing it from happening again or from remaining a source of conflict. Figure out whether you can forgive her for what she's done. Most of all, find out for yourself if she is truly no longer in touch with this guy. Only after she has let him go will you guys be able to rebuild. She needs to go full No Contact, be transparent about her intentions, and if she isn't really in the marriage or remorseful about her behavior then you should let her go because if she feels like you're trapping her in the marriage, she will want to go after OM even more. 180.

Good luck, buddy. I'm sorry you're in this situation. I know what it feels like and it doesn't feel nice.


----------



## Will_Kane

Look at this from your wife's point of view.

Put yourself in her shoes.

If you did what she admits to doing, would you agree to look for another job elsewhere in order to save your marriage?

Cheaters lie. Believe their actions, not their words.

Your wife says she wants to work on the marriage and is going through the motions, but she is taking no real actions.

Again, if the roles were reversed, wouldn't you try to have sex with your wife if you knew that might help save the marriage, even if you weren't "in the mood" or didn't "feel it"? Wouldn't you try it just for the sake of the marriage, especially with nothing else working and your spouse saying that it would help?

She is saying one thing to you, but doing another. Her actions don't support her words.

She won't quit the job because that's where she is able to see the other man.

She won't have sex with you because that would be a violation of her fidelity to the other man.

SHE SAYS SHE WANTS TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE, BUT SHE REALLY STILL WANTS THE OTHER MAN AND IS RESISTING ALL TANGIBLE ACTIONS THAT COULD HELP SAVE THE MARRIAGE.

I can almost guarantee that the other man is stringing your wife along, telling her that someday he will divorce his wife and he will be together with your wife, but first he has to get his financial ducks lined up in a row, wait until his oldest graduates grammar school in June, wait for this, wait for that, etc.

Your wife is planning in her head to be with the other man, but until that day comes, she is waiting it out. Her affair with the other man is all fantasy, no real life hardships or responsibilities, just her and him together forever in an idyllic future that doesn't really exist.

Your most potent weapon against the affair at this point is exposure to the other man's wife. If the other man's wife can find evidence of the affair or turn up the heat on her husband to get him to end contact with your wife, your wife will start to come out of the fog when she sees the other man has thrown her under the bus.

Your second most potent weapon against the affair, if the first one doesn't work, is filing for divorce. After you file, your wife will be forced to start planning for the future. You will talk of splitting up assets, new living arrangements, child custody issues, etc. Your wife will begin to see the reality of the situation, that life will not be so idyllic with the other man after all. This could start to snap your wife out of the fog.

There is no guarantee that any of this will work. You may lose your marriage no matter what you do. You could do nothing, just go on as you have been before posting here, and still lose your marriage. The choice is yours. The collective experience of the posters here seems to be the actions we've recommended. I don't think anyone has recommended staying the course you were on before coming to this forum.


----------



## Chaparral

She won't believe it but you need to keep reminding her that men go into affairs for one thing, a piece of a$$. Also remind her that only 1 in 10 cheating relationships make it past three years. On top of that 97% of cheater relationships break up eventually.

Tell her to google infidelity statistics for her self.

Also ask her if she doesn't know nurses and doctors are among the top five proffesions that cheat. I asked a nurse friend if it was as bad as "Greys Anatomy" portrays it and she said real life was way worse, especially on the night shift whe things get slow.


----------



## Chaparral

Nurse doctor cheating has become so common I never look at them like I used to.


----------



## Acabado

Don't back off on the job.
Dont move out.
Cut the MC, hard 180 and start D procedings.


----------



## warlock07

wrsteele1 said:


> Is getting my wife fired really going to help my marriage? I can see lots of negative consequences in my wallet if I pull this one.


Last case option. She is going to divorce you any way. Might as well give her enough time to think clearly about the marriage without the OM in picture. It might also create some stress between them

What is her reason for not quitting the job? Any genuine reasons?


----------



## Machiavelli

chapparal said:


> Nurse doctor cheating has become so common I never look at them like I used to.


My bro's XWW was a nurse first, then became a doctor. Guess she wanted to experience both sides of that adulterous equation.


----------



## wrsteele1

So a lot has happened. I had lots of (tasteful and moral) fun on Friday and got myself purposefully tagged on FB. Had fun and had some success in generating a little jealousy too. Then I had a intervention with her family and told everyone everything and how bad it was.

Then I called OM's wife: and that's when s*** hit the fan. I found out lots of details about ongoing issues, continuous lies, and unbelievable yet undeniable facts about an ongoing relationship with OM, including several bold faced lies from my wife being exposed from just 2 DAYS AGO (initial confrontation was 5 weeks ago).

So I did what anybody would do when they learn their spouse has had an affair. I confronted her. Catch is: she was at work when I found out. She wouldn't let me give it to her tactfully by leaving with me during the workday. So I shouted the story at the top of my lungs at the hospital and got myself escorted out by security.

I want everyone to know that I AM NOW CALM. I know this has now changed and that I must control my emotions for my kids. There is a different spin now. I intend to file for divorce. I'm not saying she couldn't stop me from divorcing her but I give her no guarantees.


----------



## keko

wrsteele1 said:


> There is a different spin now. I intend to file for divorce. I'm not saying she couldn't stop me from divorcing her but I give her no guarantees.


After you file for divorce make sure to notify your family/friends and most importantly people that care about your wife and have influence over her. It'll be hard to say the same thing over and over again but write a simple paragraph and read the same line for every person you call/text. Hopefully this will be a wake up call for her.


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> So a lot has happened. I had lots of (tasteful and moral) fun on Friday and got myself purposefully tagged on FB. Had fun and had some success in generating a little jealousy too. Then I had a intervention with her family and told everyone everything and how bad it was.
> 
> Then I called OM's wife: and that's when s*** hit the fan. I found out lots of details about ongoing issues, continuous lies, and unbelievable yet undeniable facts about an ongoing relationship with OM, including several bold faced lies from my wife being exposed from just 2 DAYS AGO (initial confrontation was 5 weeks ago).
> 
> So I did what anybody would do when they learn their spouse has had an affair. I confronted her. Catch is: she was at work when I found out. She wouldn't let me give it to her tactfully by leaving with me during the workday. So I shouted the story at the top of my lungs at the hospital and got myself escorted out by security.
> 
> I want everyone to know that I AM NOW CALM. I know this has now changed and that I must control my emotions for my kids. There is a different spin now. I intend to file for divorce. I'm not saying she couldn't stop me from divorcing her but I give her no guarantees.


I am so, so sorry.

I know there are various BSs on the boards right now in various stages of denial about whether or not their spouses are still in contact with their APs. 

I know that you have gone from a bit of denial, because your wife (JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S SPOUSE, SHE WAS NO DIFFERENT!) was a very good liar, to investigating and not being able to ascertain the truth. But you kept at it.

No one wants to expose, but you can see how it was the right thing to do. You see how timing it ensured the best outcome--you told the family FIRST so she could not spin this against you, then you told the OMW...and now the truth comes out.

Those jobs where the OMs and WSs still meet up are a f*cking b*tch. I hope that the MANY people on the boards in this situation read what happened to you because maintaining contact is a FAIL in emotional affairs. Again, console yourself that your situation is no different, your wife wasn't in any way unusually weak nor the OM especially attractive or anything of that nature.

As you realize, getting arrested is not a way to help your kids. But none of us is going to sit in judgment over the very human way that you reacted.

I am so sorry. Get the papers to her as quickly as possible.

For whatever reason, I am still rooting for R for you, but for that to happen the OM needs to throw your wife under the bus. That may not happen. And if that were to happen and she comes crawling back, you have to think long and hard about what exactly you've "won."

I hope you called the therapist and kept them up-to-date. If the therapist expresses deep surprise after this I'd fire them on the spot, because it means that they just aren't up to snuff when it comes to handling infidelity in a marriage.


----------



## warlock07

Just remember what the slime ball told you when you confronted him. Just don't trust a word both of them say unless you can verify it yourself, ok? And remember, you don't want to be in jail. Your kids need you. Start the 180 and proceed through with the divorce unless she gives you a reason not to.

Also update friends and family regarding the situation.


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> So a lot has happened. I had lots of (tasteful and moral) fun on Friday and got myself purposefully tagged on FB. Had fun and had some success in generating a little jealousy too. Then I had a intervention with her family and told everyone everything and how bad it was.
> 
> Then I called OM's wife: and that's when s*** hit the fan. I found out lots of details about ongoing issues, continuous lies, and unbelievable yet undeniable facts about an ongoing relationship with OM, including several bold faced lies from my wife being exposed from just 2 DAYS AGO (initial confrontation was 5 weeks ago).
> 
> So I did what anybody would do when they learn their spouse has had an affair. I confronted her. Catch is: she was at work when I found out. She wouldn't let me give it to her tactfully by leaving with me during the workday. So I shouted the story at the top of my lungs at the hospital and got myself escorted out by security.
> 
> I want everyone to know that I AM NOW CALM. I know this has now changed and that I must control my emotions for my kids. There is a different spin now. I intend to file for divorce. I'm not saying she couldn't stop me from divorcing her but I give her no guarantees.


Does this mean POSOM told you Doctor Feelgood was having a physical realtionship with your wife?

Can you afford a billboard? 

http://www.cheaterville.com/ Is your friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> I am so, so sorry.
> 
> I know there are various BSs on the boards right now in various stages of denial about whether or not their spouses are still in contact with their APs.
> 
> I know that you have gone from a bit of denial, because your wife (JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S SPOUSE, SHE WAS NO DIFFERENT!) was a very good liar, to investigating and not being able to ascertain the truth. But you kept at it.
> 
> No one wants to expose, but you can see how it was the right thing to do. You see how timing it ensured the best outcome--you told the family FIRST so she could not spin this against you, then you told the OMW...and now the truth comes out.
> 
> Those jobs where the OMs and WSs still meet up are a f*cking b*tch. I hope that the MANY people on the boards in this situation read what happened to you because maintaining contact is a FAIL in emotional affairs. Again, console yourself that your situation is no different, your wife wasn't in any way unusually weak nor the OM especially attractive or anything of that nature.
> 
> As you realize, getting arrested is not a way to help your kids. But none of us is going to sit in judgment over the very human way that you reacted.
> 
> I am so sorry. Get the papers to her as quickly as possible.
> 
> For whatever reason, I am still rooting for R for you, but for that to happen the OM needs to throw your wife under the bus. That may not happen. And if that were to happen and she comes crawling back, you have to think long and hard about what exactly you've "won."
> 
> I hope you called the therapist and kept them up-to-date. If the therapist expresses deep surprise after this I'd fire them on the spot, because it means that they just aren't up to snuff when it comes to handling infidelity in a marriage.


OM told his wife about my wife and that he has TWO women he's been talking too. They have talked to lawyers and he has been telling her he doesn't love her for 6 months. No doubt thats where seeds got planted for my wife.

OM wife wants to R but things look bleak to say the least.


----------



## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> Just remember what the slime ball told you when you confronted him. Just don't trust a word both of them say unless you can verify it yourself, ok? And remember, you don't want to be in jail. Your kids need you. Start the 180 and proceed through with the divorce unless she gives you a reason not to.
> 
> Also update friends and family regarding the situation.


Yes all the way around.


----------



## iheartlife

So does your wife know now that he's been 'disloyal' to her too with ANOTHER woman (if I understand you correctly, the OM has TWO women)?


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> So does your wife know now that he's been 'disloyal' to her too with ANOTHER woman (if I understand you correctly, the OM has TWO women)?


I don't know. This also isn't the 1st time he's cheated on his wife.

I have a feeling my wife isn't coming home tonight.


----------



## wrsteele1

Actually she just got home, I'm surprised.


----------



## keko

Make sure to clean your internet history so she doesn't find out about this site.


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> Actually she just got home, I'm surprised.


Talk about a cliffhanger.


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> Actually she just got home, I'm surprised.


Is this the normal time for her to come home?


----------



## Chaparral

Let her know she is just the last or next to last in a string of women. Tell her to get an STD test. Tell her his wife hinte he may have something.


----------



## iheartlife

jinx, keko


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> Is this the normal time for her to come home?


Yes .... told her filing for divorce. She doesn't care she wants one to. She's fuming about me showing up at her work.

Says she's not leaving her job. Told her OK then its definitely over. Told her if she lets the devil go, chooses God, and leaves her job maybe I could work toward forgiveness. She refuses.

Headed to divorce. :-( Most certainly not what I wanted.


----------



## wrsteele1

wrsteele1 said:


> Yes .... told her filing for divorce. She doesn't care she wants one to. She's fuming about me showing up at her work.
> 
> Says she's not leaving her job. Told her OK then its definitely over. Told her if she lets the devil go, chooses God, and leaves her job maybe I could work toward forgiveness. She refuses.
> 
> Headed to divorce. :-( Most certainly not what I wanted.


You know, I love her. I totally regret this is happening. I miss her from the good times. Hard to comprehend never having sex with her again. I'm going to miss her.


----------



## keko

It seems she checked out of the marriage for some time.

Start telling family before she starts twisting the story and tells before you.


----------



## warlock07

Does she know about his cheating history?


----------



## warlock07

Inform the HR. What state are you in?


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> You know, I love her. I totally regret this is happening. I miss her from the good times. Hard to comprehend never having sex with her again. I'm going to miss her.


Again, I am sorrier than I know how to say. But you can see how she didn't have the nerve to ask you for a divorce. She just strung you along, went to MC, all the while in contact with this man. There is no way on god's green earth that she was putting in one quarter of the effort it takes to get anything out of MC. MC (as I think I said once or twice before) is HARD WORK and affairs are fantasies untested by reality.

Know that if she is throwing in the towel, she is giving her loving family up for an OM who probably has a variety of women on a string. She will find out soon enough.

I cannot predict the future but do not be shocked if she comes running back. She has had very few, if any consequences from her affair. We already know the OM is POS several times over. She is not going off into the sunset with that man.


----------



## Chaparral

Don't date any more nurses either. Have you told her what his wife told you about him being a serial cheater?

Let her cool off for a while, at this point she hasn't had time to cool off and actually have a thought. 

This is the time for the 180 however.

Its copywrited so here is a link.

The Healing Heart: The 180

Put him on cheaterville.com and use their annonymous email app to let him and your wife know he is on it. He will despise the drama.

Can you find out who else he is fooling around with? You may be able to find an ally. More drama to throw in his path.

Also contact HR dept now ..........yes,more drama. Make him squeal like the pig he is.


----------



## iheartlife

Yes, expose all known OW's to each other. Get the OMW's help if she will give it. She is probably emotionally in a very tough place right now but she may cooperate because she's sick of his lies.


----------



## Chaparral

iheartlife said:


> Yes, expose all known OW's to each other. Get the OMW's help if she will give it. She is probably emotionally in a very tough place right now but she may cooperate because she's sick of his lies.


This, tell her you are trying to get your wife out of his life.


----------



## Will_Kane

*from iheartlife: Yes, expose all known OW's to each other. Get the OMW's help if she will give it. She is probably emotionally in a very tough place right now but she may cooperate because she's sick of his lies.*

This is a great idea. His wife would be happy to help because she wants to save her marriage. This may help your wife snap out of it.


----------



## Affaircare

I'm sorry to hear this, but I will remind you that you can lead a horse to water, but you can not make them drink. 

I too had an ex whom I was willing to forgive and work toward R, but the price was that he had to give us his cheating and actually face and work on his anger issues and his health issues ON HIS OWN. He tried to make some promises and then do nothing different, then got very angry that I ACTUALLY expected him to do what he promised! I couldn't make him stay in the marriage, and we are divorced because he just Would. Not Stop.


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> Don't date any more nurses either. Have you told her what his wife told you about him being a serial cheater?
> 
> Let her cool off for a while, at this point she hasn't had time to cool off and actually have a thought.
> 
> This is the time for the 180 however.
> 
> Its copywrited so here is a link.
> 
> The Healing Heart: The 180
> 
> Put him on cheaterville.com and use their annonymous email app to let him and your wife know he is on it. He will despise the drama.
> 
> Can you find out who else he is fooling around with? You may be able to find an ally. More drama to throw in his path.
> 
> Also contact HR dept now ..........yes,more drama. Make him squeal like the pig he is.


Can contact HR but thats my last effort I think. She is not in it so nothing I can do. Don't know any OW. Don't care to look. Time to start focusing on me. Going to be hard because she won't leave.  She has nowhere to go. Id like to string out the divorce but how do I ease the pain of her living in my house. And what do I tell my kids?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

chapparal said:


> *Don't date any more nurses either*.


 Not fair!!


----------



## warlock07

Alienation of affections - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See if you are in one of these states(Alienation is, however, still recognized in Hawaii, Illinois, North Carolina, Mississippi, New Mexico, South Dakota, and Utah)

If you are, the OM will be a liability at the work place and will let him go


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> Can contact HR but thats my last effort I think. She is not in it so nothing I can do. Don't know any OW. Don't care to look. Time to start focusing on me. Going to be hard because she won't leave. She has nowhere to go. Id like to string out the divorce but how do I ease the pain of her living in my house. And what do I tell my kids?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ask the OMW to expose the women to each other. No effort required from you except one last phone call.

But I understand if you're done. I totally understand.


----------



## Will_Kane

Do not despair. You can still save your marriage.

After the initial exposure, it is normal for the cheater to blow up in anger, tell you that she was thinking of coming back to you, but now you blew it, you have no chance, and then storms out.

This anger usually blows over. She will try to work it out with the other man. Now, the other man has to really do what he was promising to do - leave his wife.

If the other man doesn't leave his wife, your wife realizes that the other man is a liar who is throwing her under the bus.

If the other man does leave his wife, reality will start to encroach on their fantasy. Your wife will start to have to deal with financial issues, custody issues, living arrangements, and pressure from family and hopefully their employer. Your wife will start to see the other man's blemishes and she will start to realize she didn't have such a bad marriage after all.

Your wife finding out that the other man is a serial cheater and this is business as usual for him will go that much further to getting her to see what scum he really is.

When you talk to your wife about exposure and how could you hurt other man's poor innocent wife like that and traumatize her poor co-workers with your loud display at the hospital, tell your wife that you are fighting for her and fighting for your marriage. Tell her that you can move on without her, you will not accept her having an affair, if she doesn't stop you will divorce her, but all of your actions have been to get to the truth, which she wouldn't tell you, and to get her to end the affair, because you are fighting for her and fighting for your marriage.


----------



## keko

Don't let it go without one last battle. Do a hard exposure right now. Seriously go nuclear on her, use any and every means of letting people know family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, etc.


----------



## warlock07

Entropy, he found proof of the affair and is planning to divorce


----------



## Will_Kane

You've been through too much already, *don't quit now, see this thing through*. At least give it another week.

Start securing your finances. Talk to a lawyer and file for divorce. Find out what you should do to secure the best divorce arrangement, financially and custody-wise, for yourself. Do not tell your wife you are doing any of this yet.

Don't give up. Give yourself at least the opportunity to reconcile. You may realize later that you don't want to stay married, but don't quit - fight for a short time more to give yourself that option.

Don't beg, plead or whine around your wife. Be strong, confident, calm, at peace with the situation. You would like to go on with her, but you can and will go on without her. Be on your best behavior, meaning don't let your hair down like you normally would with someone your married to for years. Dress well, try to look your best, be polite, talk only about the kids and finances and living arrangements to the extent necessary. Do not do family things with you, her and the kids. Do stuff with the kids without her. Let them keep you occupied.

Let her discover the other man's faults. He will be scrambling now with pressure from his wife and your wife and hopefully his employer. You staying calm and confident and being at peace will make you much more attractive all of a sudden.


----------



## Entropy3000

warlock07 said:


> Entropy, he found proof of the affair and is planning to divorce


Yeah I am deleting my posts. I hate when I do what i just did. Sorry folks.


----------



## Will_Kane

Start taking your kids to church again. Start this weekend. Without her. Let her see you do this, but don't initiate a discussion with her, let her ask you about it when she sees you doing it.


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Start taking your kids to church again. Start this weekend. Without her. Let her see you do this, but don't initiate a discussion with her, let her ask you about it when she sees you doing it.


Ok
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BigLiam

Sorry your abusive, a-hole wife has done this to you and the kids.
Expose and then prepare to divorce her. There is , really, nothing more you can do.
Take care of yourself and the kids.


----------



## Chaparral

You feel beat down now. Take a break, get a second wind and come out swinging for your self your kids and your wife. Its time to lead, be strong and start kicking some a$$. It is not the time to lay down and roll over. If you think that go take a look at your kids. 

DO NOT LET A HOTSHOT WOMANIZER DESTROY YOUR FAMILY


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> You feel beat down now. Take a break, get a second wind and come out swinging for your self your kids and your wife. Its time to lead, be strong and start kicking some a$$. It is not the time to lay down and roll over. If you think that go take a look at your kids.
> 
> DO NOT LET A HOTSHOT WOMANIZER DESTROY YOUR FAMILY


How
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> How
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Reread what the posters have been telling you to do. Number one , no more MR NIce Guy. Bring the drama home to him. Call HR tomorrow, then talk to your lawyer, in that order.

Have your lawyer subpoena his and your wifes text messages.

And put him on cheaterville.com.........................he's a predator.


----------



## Chaparral

Read this now and make it your bible for now.

The Healing Heart: The 180


----------



## t_hopper_2012

chapparal said:


> Reread what the posters have been telling you to do. Number one , no more MR NIce Guy. Bring the drama home to him. Call HR tomorrow, then talk to your lawyer, in that order.
> 
> Have your lawyer subpoena his and your wifes text messages.
> 
> And put him on cheaterville.com.........................he's a predator.


Do these things first thing tomorrow - no matter how much sh*t and guilt your wife rains down on you. Be absolutely sure to involve HR at the hospital. Be absolutely sure to talk to a lawyer and be absolutely sure that your wife knows that you are not taking this laying down. Stand up for yourself; stand up for the sanctity of your marriage; stand up for the integrity of your family. Your kids deserve it. You deserve it.

That's how you do it.

Show your kids that while you love your wife and your family, behavior like your wife's is not to be tolerated. There are consequences.

If you are meek and mild; if you try to placate your wife or go easy on the situation, she will continue to walk all over you. In the long run, setting this terrible example for your kids will be far more damaging than any disruption (even if it is permanent) to the marriage.

Once you've taken these steps; focus on the 180 - as others have advised - and focus on being a great dad to your kids.

You can do it! (You must do it)


----------



## iheartlife

keko said:


> Don't let it go without one last battle.


Listen, if keko thinks you have a shot at this, you better take that shot! He is as pro-D as they come.

Everyone is supporting you because the OM is such an ass. He is never going to be the stepfather of your children and he is never going to marry her. He is a serial cheating LOSER and your wife is going to see this sooner rather than later.

If she gets mad one more time about your visit to her job, you tell her--I did it because I LOVE you. But I'm not going to beg you when you've lied up one way and down the other, pretending to work on our marriage while staying loyal to this man who's cheated on you as much as he's cheated on all the women in his life.


----------



## warlock07

I am not sure if the cheaterville thing would be good right now


----------



## t_hopper_2012

warlock07 said:


> I am not sure if the cheaterville thing would be good right now


Agreed. Sounds like this guy would be likely to sue. You don't need that kind of stress right now.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Listen, if keko thinks you have a shot at this, you better take that shot! He is as pro-D as they come.
> 
> Everyone is supporting you because the OM is such an ass. He is never going to be the stepfather or your children and he is never going to marry her. He is a serial cheating LOSER and your wife is going to see this sooner rather than later.
> 
> If she gets mad one more time about your visit to her job, you tell her--I did it because I LOVE you. But I'm not going to beg you when you've lied up one way and down the other, pretending to work on our marriage while staying loyal to this man who's cheated on you as much as he's cheated on all the women in his life.


The ********* actually called me today to "make sure I was alright" and to "make sure my kids and I were alright". I'm sure he did this bc my wife was upset somewhere behind the scenes, but how big of an EGO would you have to have to do this. I think my marriage is over. My wife is a brick wall.

However, I did succeed in making her jealous last weekend, I could probably continue that.

I live in Indiana btw. No fault state.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> I am not sure if the cheaterville thing would be good right now


I think the drama would be a great way to make Dr Feelgood throw wife under the bus. He can't sue because its true.

What reason would he have for not posting. People aways get wimpy here when it comes to getting tough with the affair partner. What's up with that? And I don't want to hear any of that no vows with affair partner BS, thats just an excuse for not having any ba!!s.


----------



## BigLiam

You need to F this guy up, seriously. Mess with him professionally. Report him to the hospital and his professional responsibility board. Out him to the community , somehow.
Lots of docs are exceeedingly dumb and egoists. Think creatively and try to rain something down on him.


----------



## keko

wrsteele1 said:


> My wife is a brick wall.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Once you take hard actions she'll start breaking down. 

I'm hoping you have a proof of OM calling you, make sure to provide that to his HR.

Have you exposed her affair to the family? If you use fb, that'll be a good initial way to start some drama.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> The ********* actually called me today to "make sure I was alright" and to "make sure my kids and I were alright". I'm sure he did this bc my wife was upset somewhere behind the scenes, but how big of an EGO would you have to have to do this. I think my marriage is over. My wife is a brick wall.
> 
> However, I did succeed in making her jealous last weekend, I could probably continue that.
> 
> I live in Indiana btw. No fault state.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And what exactly did you tell him.

You are the one that should be the brick wall at this point. Don't let yourself be caught in the same room with her. Don't run out of the room, leave with dignity and memorize the 180. Right now she is mad as a hornet and loving your pain. Smile and act like you knew it all the way along.

Eat breath and sleep the 180, as a matter of fact its bedtime.


----------



## iheartlife

keko said:


> Have you exposed her affair to the family? If you use fb, that'll be a good initial way to start some drama.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He drove out and told them in person.


----------



## Acabado

What a shame a solid, good marriage to the garbage in just two months of foolish EA. GRRRRRR


----------



## keko

iheartlife said:


> He drove out and told them in person.


Thanks iHeart, must have missed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

*I found out lots of details about ongoing issues, continuous lies, and unbelievable yet undeniable facts about an ongoing relationship with OM, including several bold faced lies from my wife being exposed from just 2 DAYS AGO*

What are the details you found out from the other man's wife? Perhaps if you give us some specifics we can help you use them to end the affair.


----------



## Thorburn

Sorry this happened to you. Like Will Kane wrote there were specifics that were left out can you at least give us an overview.

I wanted to write earlier but could not as I was home with the wife this weekend and could not get on.

One of the reasons your wife will not leave her job is very common. She felt like the marriage is over and if she quit her job she would have no means of supporting herself. My wife started working a few months ago. She is a cosmetolgist and never worked in the field PT or FT ever. She kept her liscense current over the years and did friends and family hair so she did keep up her skills. She got excited when she got hired and is now working as a hair stylist. D-day was Nov. 29th 2011. She started working in early April. She asked me early on to let her get on her feet first if I planned on leaving her as she had no income. As we R she said that she loves her job and when we move she wants to keep it. I understand, my wife's position started out as security and now that we are in R she now loves it and I watched the changes from, "I have to work to support myself", to "I see the marriage is working and I love my job". . In one way it was about her secruity and I imagine that this is your wife's take (even without the OM). Add the OM and she (in her mind) has even more reason to stay.

I will put this upfront. I am pro R and pro marriage. Your marriage can work out, BUT, I would suggest the following no matter what the outcome is.

1. You stop flirting with other women. If you D there will be time for that. If you D this could be used against you. If you find yourself in R (stranger things have happened here on TAM) it will not help that process as your WS will have doubts about what you did. 
2. Get back to church. Ok, I was a pastor and a chaplain in a past life. This will help you with your spiritual bearings and give you and your kids a routine. It will also help you focus on some important things that you need right now. Your healing is important and I do believe that the church offers that healing in ways that I have yet to understand.
3. Don't leave the house. DON'T LEAVE THE HOUSE.
4. Go slow on D. File but you can always change your mind. I would set a time somewhere in the future say October 20th and see where things are in the marriage. You have time. At the beginning of your posts you did not want D. You may come to that same conclusion over time. Some of us do and give R a try (like me) and others D. I am not sure what your wife did as there were not enough details. I know she had an EA. If it was an EA it is difficult to work through it. In my profession as a counselor an EA is harder to work through then being raped. Your wife is out there and if you want to give her a chance then let her make the move.
5. Don't beg or plead with her. Stay matter of fact and talk kid stuff with her. I would not give her any more information.
6. Don't blow up at her. You are angry. The thing at her work site is very understandable but you do not want to do anything else to show that you are unstable. Take it from an expert. I lucked out. I broke into the meatplant (drunk) where the OM worked and not one soul was in the building. It was around Noontime and they were all (everyone) was offsite at a holiday party. I would be in jail otherwise. I am talking a fairly large building with admin offices etc and no one was there.
7. Put your finances in order.
8. Get tested for STD's.
9. I still say leave HR alone. If you R it will make things even more messy. If you R then her leaving the job pronto is essential. If you D then all bets are off and have at it.
10. See an attorney.
11. Watch what you say around the kids and anyone else. Don't bad mouth her, as much as you want to it could hurt you in court.
12. Take it slow with the kids. How do you tell them? You give them little details and talk about mommy and daddy not being able to stay together. It sucks. 
13. Be aware that your wife will spin this and more than likely make it your fault.
14. Again, be careful of what you share with friends and family members. You want to come out clean then guard your words and your actions. The temptation to make her look like the evil witch is easy but you need support and remember there are many people who have a different history with her and have seen her in a different light for years and those relationships will ebb and flow during your emotional upheaval. So be careful with family. Alegiences can change in a second.

Take care of yourself.

Praying for you.


----------



## wrsteele1

Caught my wife giving OM a blowjob on tape. HELP!!!!! I'm a wreck.


----------



## iheartlife

say what?


----------



## baldmale

wrsteele1 said:


> Caught my wife giving OM a blowjob on tape. HELP!!!!! I'm a wreck.


Sorry man, I know that hurts. I caught my wife having sex via the accidental pocket dial on her phone... What was heard cannot be unheard. Ugh.

Time to go dark and get an IM as a go between. It has to be about taking care of yourself from this point forward.


----------



## wrsteele1

What is IM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

I think he means an intermediary.

The trouble is, she is still in the house I believe.

I'd pack all her things up and have them sitting on the lawn for her to get when she comes home from work. Let her fend for herself financially.


----------



## keko

When your wife is in the shower send it to her phone, then send it to all of her contacts.


----------



## keko

After that send the video to the hospital where they work.


----------



## Thorburn

Slow down. You got time to sort this out. I mean it slow down. Don't go balistic (yet). Can you go talk to someone? 

Don't do anything hasty.


----------



## Thorburn

keko said:


> When your wife is in the shower send it to her phone, then send it to all of her contacts.


keko, come on. He needs a better stategy than that. He is in shock - we all would be. I think we need to help him with a better way to out this then on her stupid phone.


----------



## keko

Thorburn said:


> keko, come on. He needs a better stategy than that. He is in shock - we all would be. I think we need to help him with a better way to out this then on her stupid phone.


I agree it is childish but I don't think he'll have the momentum to go 100% if he backs off for now.


----------



## Shamwow

wrsteele1 said:


> Caught my wife giving OM a blowjob on tape. HELP!!!!! I'm a wreck.


Holy balls, that's horrible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thorburn

Sorry to ask but what quality is the recording? Is there any doubt that it is her and the OM? Believe me she may deny it is her. I remember one poster who caught his wife (a nurse) being filmed having sex with the OM at the hospital. That is how he found out. The quality was clear and she denied it even then. She made a freaken porno and denied it even with the proof.

How far do you want to go with this evidence? Because you can post it on FB, cheaterville.com, phone, etc. Remember what you post online can be there forever.


----------



## Shamwow

Just go dark on her man. Vent your rage to a counselor, try not to see her at all if you can. Try to get her out of the house, even for a few days (friend's house/hotel, whatever). 

Go to the gym and destroy yourself, it'll help with the rage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thorburn

For many of us we have mind movies. You have the image on recording. That will be with you for a long time. Like Shamwow go dark. Do not show your hand right away. It will take effort not to show her what you have on her. I would want to slam it in her face but step away and plan out your next move.

You are hurting and have the hard evidence don't go postal.


----------



## wrsteele1

Thorburn said:


> Sorry to ask but what quality is the recording? Is there any doubt that it is her and the OM? Believe me she may deny it is her. I remember one poster who caught his wife (a nurse) being filmed having sex with the OM at the hospital. That is how he found out. The quality was clear and she denied it even then. She made a freaken porno and denied it even with the proof.
> 
> How far do you want to go with this evidence? Because you can post it on FB, cheaterville.com, phone, etc. Remember what you post online can be there forever.


Not prepared to do anything with it. Yet. But its audio only. Unmistakable who it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## snap

You can not nice her out of it. All your civility only serves is to wrench your guts while she's sucking off to a stranger.

You know what to do. Do it.


----------



## Thorburn

wrsteele1 said:


> Not prepared to do anything with it. Yet. But its audio only. Unmistakable who it is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry. It must really be tough.


----------



## anonymouskitty

Shamwow said:


> Just go dark on her man. Vent your rage to a counselor, try not to see her at all if you can. Try to get her out of the house, even for a few days (friend's house/hotel, whatever).
> 
> Go to the gym and destroy yourself, it'll help with the rage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## MrK

wrsteele1 said:


> She tells me at least twice a week she does not love me...I feel near my breaking point due to her lack of effort.
> 
> HELP! Is there hope for us? Any suggestions?


I hate it when people do this but I'm going to do it anyhow: respond to an 11 page thread after only reading the first page. Not much changes over the course of a few days and I can just about GUARANTEE that over those 11 pages all of you are hounding him to "expose the affair" and "it is surely still going on" and "it's surely gone physical" and "you'll never fix your marriage while she's in the fog" and "spy, spy, spy" and "blah, blah, blah".

It's over dude. Women fall out of love with their husbands all the time. They rarely come back. And the ones that come back don't tell you they hate you twice a week and show ZERO effort in reconciliation. My wife is exhibit A. You had three reasons to stay? Your kids are the only one you have left, and they are resilient. Your religion failed you and your wife ain't coming back. 

So go ahead. Listen to these otherwise smart people and stay miserable for years, fighting for affection that will never come, only to fail later and have you misery compounded when she walks on HER terms.

Screw this. I'm tired of women giving up on their marriages and thinking it's OK to walk out w/o effort.

Yes. WOMEN!!!!!! I'm little rusty on the walk away husband syndrome. So before you crucify me for not being aware of it, educate me. 

Men. Listen to me. If women aren't going to educate their daughters about the greater than not odds that they will hate their husbands after 5 years of marriage, it's up to us to educate our sons. TAKE A STAND FOR GODS SAKE!!!!

You've got something about the sanctity of marriage? Does your wife share the same feelings?

Screw her. You've got ONE SHOT at this world. DO NOT waste it pining over a women who broke her vows. And I'm not talking about the infidelity. I'm talking about marrying you then leaving you. But not even having the decency to leave you.

Screw women. Screw wives. Screw marriage.


----------



## Will_Kane

What's gone on between you and your wife since she came home last night?


----------



## iheartlife

We know you're in shock and it hurts like hell. We hurt right there with you.

Let us know what's going on when you can gather your thoughts.


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> What's gone on between you and your wife since she came home last night?


I had a bad moment w/ her yesterday where I acted a little pathetic. Right now she just got home and I am determined not to make the same mistake. Texted her today told her I wanted to talk custody and finances tonight, and that if we could come to a confirmed written agreement I would be moving out possibly as soon as this weekend. After what I've discovered I feel now like I don't want her back. So treating her cold should not be a problem. A lawyer I consulted told me if I have something from wife signed that will not impact custody case.

Spent the day in church today. The funny thing is because of this I believe in God for the first time in 15 years. I hadn't been to church in 2 years and my first sermon back was about honesty in marriage.

She told me via text that she "is not asking or telling me to move out.". Not sure if that qualifies as the most tentative of requests that I not move out. I've made up my mind on this. Unless I can be convinced otherwise by you all I'm moving out, provided no impact on custody case. Find it hilarious wife is blowing OM yet telling me not to move out.

Rereading some advice then confronting custody and money. Custody in particular. Want her to see she can go 5 days at a time without seeing her kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

I could not resist telling her there is no way I could stay in the same house as her after what she did to the POSOM in the car. Then ask her to brush her teeth.


----------



## keko

chapparal said:


> I could not resist telling her there is no way I could stay in the same house as her after what she did to the POSOM in the car. Then ask her to brush her teeth.


..and some listerine.


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> And what exactly did you tell him.
> 
> You are the one that should be the brick wall at this point. Don't let yourself be caught in the same room with her. Don't run out of the room, leave with dignity and memorize the 180. Right now she is mad as a hornet and loving your pain. Smile and act like you knew it all the way along.
> 
> Eat breath and sleep the 180, as a matter of fact its bedtime.


When this happened I told him he's not my friend and the planet might not be big enough for his ego for him to call me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> When this happened I told him he's not my friend and the planet might not be big enough for his ego for him to call me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is not a power on earth that would keep me from putting him on cheaterville.com now. Thorburn put the om on cheaterville and I think the hits are over a million!!!!

Dr. Feelgood,,,,,,,,,,, paging Dr. Feelgood,,,,,,,,,,, you have a message on cheaterville.com,,,,,,,,,,,,, code blue


----------



## iheartlife

You are the one who has to live with that audio tape ringing in your ears for life. Just like I have to live with my husband telling someone else she was the love of his life and his soulmate and she understood him like no one else. No one can tell you what you can live with, and what you can't.

Men are very visual. You are going to picture this now and then for the rest of your life. Can you handle that, even if she suddenly turned around and said you were the only one for her and she never stopped loving you?

You have to want to stay married to her for YOU. Not for the kids, not for Christianity, not because you're a good person. She has done something beyond violating her marriage vows--she has lied to you about it repeatedly. Some spouses would even deny what was on the tape even if you played it to them. It happens more often than you would think.

You have a shot at R because this man is such a sleazeball and however much she threw herself at him she's been somewhat taken in by a player. As I've said several times now, this man is NOT going to marry her and he is NOT stepfather material. There is no sweet lovestruck romance going on in the broom closet behind the operating room. I would be shocked it she didn't come to her senses rather quickly if she got the boot, had to fend for herself financially and saw how the OM turned around and cheated on her (as he probably has done already).

She is eventually going to come crawling back. Obviously no one can promise that but those are the odds given your set of facts. So it's not so much if, but when. There are men who have taken their wives back after all of that. They have to live with this every day. Only you can know if you think you can be--or want to be--one of them. It's not for us to say.


----------



## Chaparral

Lawyers love to sue doctors. Although you live in a state that does not allow alienation of affection lawsuits, cheaters can be sued for intentional infliction of emotional distress. You may even be able to get this done pro bono if you found the right lawyer. Look for an ambulance chasing firm that advertises on tv. You might be able to get a nice hunk of change.  I'm sure you can tell I'm in the paybacks are hell school of thought when it comes to messing with my family and kids.


----------



## warlock07

Be pissed off. Stay pissed off.


----------



## Acabado

Good Lord, I'm so sorry, man.
To the curb with her!


----------



## warlock07

Gather evidence and expose them at the office. Contact OMW and get as much evidence as you can. I would be tempted to call the POSOM and tell him if he thought you were okay with your wife giving him blowjobs like he did earlier.


----------



## wrsteele1

The support of this forum has been overwhelming. I can't be in counseling 24/7 so it really has been supportive to me. I honestly can't imagine going thru without it. It may not save my marriage but compressed the time period my pain will be worst by several months. Thank you all. I can't say 100 percent there is a 0 percent chance I will R, but knowing her and knowing how I feel I think divorce is imminent. Certainly filing is. It helped going to visit my pastor today as well. I did not know there was a bible verse permitting divorce free from sin in instances of infidelity. If divorce in this circumstance is so allowable that even God can understand it, then I feel about 95 percent comfortable heading down that path. I'm a stubborn SOB, but 5percent of me would forgive her. Maybe less than 5 percent. His **** will always be in her mouth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

chapparal said:


> Lawyers love to sue doctors. Although you live in a state that does not allow alienation of affection lawsuits, cheaters can be sued for intentional infliction of emotional distress. You may even be able to get this done pro bono if you found the right lawyer. Look for an ambulance chasing firm that advertises on tv. You might be able to get a nice hunk of change. I'm sure you can tell I'm in the paybacks are hell school of thought when it comes to messing with my family and kids.





warlock07 said:


> Gather evidence and expose them at the office. Contact OMW and get as much evidence as you can. I would be tempted to call the POSOM and tell him if he thought you were okay with your wife giving him blowjobs like he did earlier.


Agreed.

Going after the doctor/hospital might not save your marriage but you'll have a chunk of cash to spend with your kids. Counsulting an attorney might be insightful in your future steps. Please be pro active in pursuing this, you'll be in my prayers.


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## wrsteele1

Ohhhhh **** .... Things just took a turn for the worse .... We had talked about civilly discussing money and custody. Liz didn't want too discuss without lawyering up first. I told her if she thought I didn't know it was physical she underestimates me, that she disgusts me, and that I wouldn't touch her with gloves on. Told her to stay out of my bedroom that it is my personal space. That I want a divorce not R. And that as soon as we could agree on custody I am out the door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

Also told her that she isn't my friend, that I won't be watching tv shows or movies with her, that my relationship with her has changed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> I did not know there was a bible verse permitting divorce free from sin in instances of infidelity. If divorce in this circumstance is so allowable that even God can understand it, then I feel about 95 percent comfortable heading down that path.


That's because God, who likened Himself to a husband with two wives, was "divorced" for a reason He equated with an adulterous wife.

"I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries." Jeremiah 3:8 NIV


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## Chaparral

Ask her if Dr Feelgood was to cheap to get a room.


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## keko

Make sure to place the voice recorder back in her car. You'll know if she is getting divorce advice from her friends or is contacting lawyers.


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## warlock07

How is she reacting to you after the recent revelation? Proceed with divorce unless you have reason not to.


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## wrsteele1

I don't want access to another word spoken in her car. Also I gave a snide hint that I had ears in the car, told her to tell her "boyfriend" I said hi. He calls himself her boyfriend. At this point she'll either get a lawyer or she wont. I mostly hope we don't get into a costly battle that will have the same end as if we worked it out ourselves.

Before the revelation she was hostile. After she was hostile with a hint of fear of what I might know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Then there is more then just a BJ.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam

chapparal said:


> Lawyers love to sue doctors. Although you live in a state that does not allow alienation of affection lawsuits, cheaters can be sued for intentional infliction of emotional distress. You may even be able to get this done pro bono if you found the right lawyer. Look for an ambulance chasing firm that advertises on tv. You might be able to get a nice hunk of change. I'm sure you can tell I'm in the paybacks are hell school of thought when it comes to messing with my family and kids.


No, they really do not. Those cases are incredibly hard to win.
Just google this tort as it relates to infidelity.
Many states do not allow it in an infidelity situation unless the OM has some type of fiduciary duty to the betrayed spouse.


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## Chaparral

Here's a hint for her, tell her to go wash her mouth out with soap before she gets around you or the kids.


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## Acabado

Of course, read your first post, she was not responding becuase she never stopped the affair which by the way was likely PA from the start. She was cake eating since you busted her, she tried to save face probaley because family, etc, she had to go to MC with you to put the show. Thats why she wans't into it.
And what's more sad is she knows this is not going to last either.
Lawyer up, protect your self and let her go.


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## Chaparral

BigLiam said:


> No, they really do not. Those cases are incredibly hard to win.
> Just google this tort as it relates to infidelity.
> Many states do not allow it in an infidelity situation unless the OM has some type of fiduciary duty to the betrayed spouse.


I'm guessing that he would be considered her superior. 

Difficulty is why I suggested an ambuance chaser that knows how to settle. Lots of deep pockets here.


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## BigLiam

keko said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Going after the doctor/hospital might not save your marriage but you'll have a chunk of cash to spend with your kids. Counsulting an attorney might be insightful in your future steps. Please be pro active in pursuing this, you'll be in my prayers.


Look, this will never be sued out by any lawyer that knows what seh or she is doing.
Your best use of the audio will be in setlement negotiations re $$ and custody.
You need to be careful how you use this evidence. You cannot make explicit threats to gain leverage, as that is extortion, a crime.
But, you can have your lawyer, subtely reference the evidence and that it may be relevant to custody if this goes to trial.
You want your wife to fear having a public record made of her blowing the guy, like a trial transcript. '
I and one of my friends used this type of unspoken threat to get our wives to abandon spousal maintanence.
Agai, have your lawyer plant the seeds of fear, non-explicitly.


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## keko

OP, would you pursue trying to get visual evidence?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam

chapparal said:


> I'm guessing that he would be considered her superior.
> 
> Difficulty is why I suggested an ambuance chaser that knows how to settle. Lots of deep pockets here.


Yes, but the duty has to be owed to the husband, not the participating wife.He has no cause of action agaisnt the hospital. She might if there was undue influence and he was her superior.
See the husband here has no relationship with the doctor and no standing to sue the hospital under the sexaul harrassment theory.
The only cases I have found where a BH can sue the OM using the emotional disterss torts are those where the OM was in some type of counseling relationship with the BH, as well as the cheating wife.
Bottom line, from a lawyer who litigates(me): no use even looking into this. I wish it was not so, but he cannot win a suit against this doctor and I am pretty sure that an ambulance chaser want to make lots of $$ settling auto, dog bite and slip and fall cases etc, not pursuing complex, and non winning litigation.


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## jh52

The one thing I would buy is a VAR to carry on you just in case she is being coached and tries the "he hit me" crap.

Try to remain cool no matter how confrontational and upset she gets -- you don't need to get thrown in jail during this difficult time.

I think you stated the OMW was trying to R with OM -- what are your plans about telling her you have proof of PA. I wouldn't tell her how you know -- just that you are 100% certain.


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## warlock07

Get the VAR out of the car. And don't throw hints about what you know or don't.


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## warlock07

BigLiam said:


> You want your wife to fear having a public record made of her blowing the guy, like a trial transcript. '
> I and one of my friends used this type of unspoken threat to get our wives to abandon spousal maintanence.
> Agai, have your lawyer plant the seeds of fear, non-explicitly.


How did you go about doing that?


----------



## BigLiam

warlock07 said:


> How did you go about doing that?


well, during discovery and any negotiations, his lawyer does things to let the other side know that blowing guys from work will , somehow , get into evidence.
Off the top of my head, he can depose her and inquire re this subject(it may be objected to, and her lawyer may instruct her not to answer), but it lets them know that it is an area of inquiry. His lawyer makes an argument that it is relevant to the issue of parental fitness.
Then, you subpoena the guy, as a witness and depose him.
You ask fo a custody eval, and point the evaluator in this direction.
Lots of ways to let her know that if this case is tried, evidence of her infidelity may be put on the redcord via testimony from various sources
Let her know that you do not want to go this route if your terms are acceptable to her.
This is what my friend did, exactly. His wife os 24 years, a stay at home mom with no career, agreed to no alimony. And, this was in California.


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## Will_Kane

Start divorce proceedings.

Do not talk to your wife except to finances, custody, and living arrangements. Try to stay calm, cool, confident, indifferent. Stay strong, like a rock. Don't let her see you upset or depressed. Like a rock. Be polite. Take care of yourself and your appearance. Dress and groom yourself in private. Let her only see you fully dressed, hair combed, neat and clean. Clean up after yourself. Nothing will bother her more than this.

Spend time with your kids, focus on protecting them from this mess. Do not badmouth her to them, let them know they are loved by both of you, that they will be cared for no matter what. Do not give them more information than they ask for or they need.

Do things with your kids without her. Play games, take them to the movies, bowling, etc., without her. Don't tell her what you are doing, just do it and let her ask you what you are doing and where your are going. Answer politely and let her know if she asks, do not let her come along, even if she asks to.

Talk no more of her infidelity with her. If she asks, and only if she asks, tell her, "you know what you did and I know what you did. You know it was physical and I know it was physical. I have proof." Then smile at her and tell her from now on you only want to talk to her about finances, custody, and living arrangements.

Don't drop any more hints and don't tell her what evidence you have. Leaving her in the dark worrying what you have on her while you stay calm and cool will drive her crazy and will get you more truth from her than any other actions you can take. Don't talk to the other man again ever. Talking to your wife or the other man at this point is like talking to the enemy, anything you tell them, even if it gives you short-term satisfaction, they will find a way to use it against you or undermine your efforts. The less they know about your methods of finding out info or your future plans, the better.

If you haven't already done so, let your and her family and friends know that now you have proof that she is in a physical affair with the other man and she has no intention of ending it. Do not tell them what the proof is. Ask for their prayers and support for you and your children.

Don't let your wife find out about this site. Take care not to leave your phone or computer open for her to peruse.

Post back here if anything comes up. Your situation is not unique, we've seen it many times here.

Cheaters follow a script, your wife is following the script to a T. It's fairly predictable. The other man was OK as a distraction for your wife, the affair provided excitement, and she fogged up and even thought she was in love with him, but now that the affair is exposed (important to expose new facts to your and her family and friends), the affair will die out pretty quickly. Your wife will be feeling you out for reconciliation within a week, two at most. 

The other man is not marriage material, he is not stepfather material, he is not even steady relationship material. He is affair material only. Now that you are proceeding with divorce it no longer will be an affair, it will now be a regular relationship and your wife's expectations of the other man will increase to more than just giving blowjobs in cars. Other man is not interested in anything more than that. Wifey will be coming out of the fog soon.


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## keko

BigLiam said:


> This is what my friend did, exactly. His wife os 24 years, a stay at home mom with no career, agreed to no alimony. And, this was in California.


Big props to your friend but how stupid can that women be to not accept an alimony after 24 years of staying home?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam

I agree with most of Will's advice. But, I would not bother even mentioning that you know about the physical nature of this. I think you will do better if she wonders if you know.
I handled my XW this way and it led to her lying to her lawyer as she did not know if I knew and was trying to portray herself as a victim to her lawyer.
When my lawyer sprung the evidence on her lawyer, he was so pissed at her he was less inclined to be such a zealous advocate.


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## BigLiam

keko said:


> Big props to your friend but how stupid can that women be to not accept an alimony after 24 years of staying home?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are orthodox Jews and she did not want her reputation sullied, so she could vicitmize another husband in the future(she had 7 affairs during the 24 year marriage).
Her reputation meant more to her than $$.
Non-explicit threat of exposure can scare folks into settling if they are highly invested in keeping up their facade.


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## warlock07

7 affairs? My God!!! He should have exposed once the divorce was through


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## iheartlife

Will_Kane as usual has come through with sage advice.

I am writing only to support what he said and to concur, DO NOT communicate with the OM which I know you said you wouldn't but it is mighty tempting. OM's and OWs as you can see are smug and arrogant because they think they've accomplished what you can't, which is make your spouse happy. There is nothing you can say that will dislodge this idea from their minds, it is a wasted effort.

Please re-read Will_Kane's post carefully, it is fully of detailed ideas and will give you a plan and a purpose.


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## Thorburn

wrsteele1 said:


> The support of this forum has been overwhelming. I can't be in counseling 24/7 so it really has been supportive to me. I honestly can't imagine going thru without it. It may not save my marriage but compressed the time period my pain will be worst by several months. Thank you all. I can't say 100 percent there is a 0 percent chance I will R, but knowing her and knowing how I feel I think divorce is imminent. Certainly filing is. It helped going to visit my pastor today as well. I did not know there was a bible verse permitting divorce free from sin in instances of infidelity. If divorce in this circumstance is so allowable that even God can understand it, then I feel about 95 percent comfortable heading down that path. I'm a stubborn SOB, but 5percent of me would forgive her. Maybe less than 5 percent. His **** will always be in her mouth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yes Matthew 19 states that D is allowable under your conditions. I glad you went to speak to your pastor. Malachi 2:16 states that God hates D. We all can underdstand why. It is a horrible thing to go through.

Forgiveness does not mean you resolve to save your marriage. You can forgive your wife and still D. Forgiveness does not mean we allow the person who offended us to come back into our lives. We can forgive and move forward from the person who offended us. There are several people who offended me in a large way. I was an associate pastor in a Presbyterian church and the pastor lied to me big time. He resigned and 70% of the members left. I was left holding the church together and then the leaders of the Presbytery came to me and said I have to leave and take a position in another church as it was policy. I did nothing wrong yet due to an old policy I had to be reassigned and the new assignment sucked big time. My wife left the Presbyterian church as she could not stand the new church and without my wife being a member in good standing I had to resign. Funny thing is that this happened almost 20 years ago and the Presbyterian church still wants me back, they loved me.

My advice is file for D. Give it a few months and see where things are. I am not saying you should try to R with your wife but things can take dramatic twists and turns. And like they say, never say never. I thought D was my only option after D-day but my thinking has changed.

Since you are in the state you are in I would take it a day at a time.

i pray for wisdom for you. God gave me peace to D my wife back in December and I felt that I had either option to D or R. You do as well. Both choices are difficult. For me when we look at R in our situations it should be largely due to what the wife does. If she does not repent, show remorse, etc then move on and D her. Even if she does these things as your pastor said, you have grounds to D.

Praying for you.


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## turnera

Are you asking her to move out?


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## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> It helped going to visit my pastor today as well. I did not know there was a bible verse permitting divorce free from sin in instances of infidelity. If divorce in this circumstance is so allowable that even God can understand it, then I feel about 95 percent comfortable heading down that path. I'm a stubborn SOB, but 5percent of me would forgive her. Maybe less than 5 percent. His **** will always be in her mouth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm also glad you spoke to your pastor. Somehow I missed your reference to this last night.

Have you shared these verses with your wife? How religious is she, and her family, compared to you?


----------



## BigLiam

warlock07 said:


> 7 affairs? My God!!! He should have exposed once the divorce was through


He did. And, now, she is putting pressure on him, via kids and rabbis to give her a "Get", a jewish release from the marriage so she can go on jewish dating sites , prowling for another victim.
He has refused and it is incredible that the clerics in his religion expect him to give her one.
She even enlisted the services of some orthodox Jewish arbitration firm in NYC, and he was contacted repeatedly, by one of the lawyers on the board just about insistng that he give it to her.
They picket in front of the houses of what they term recalcitrant husbands who will not give the get.
I called this young lawyer, a bright guy who graduated with honors from Columbia. I explained that it was our position that since his wife cheated repeatedly, he could not , in good conscience, unleash her on some other poor , unsuspecting member of their faith.
The guy blew me off, telling me they did not concern themselves with protecting future victims.
I went to a second rate night law school, and even i could see that this made no sense.


----------



## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> Get the VAR out of the car. And don't throw hints about what you know or don't.


Thanks Warlock, good advice, I did this yesterday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Start divorce proceedings.
> 
> Do not talk to your wife except to finances, custody, and living arrangements. Try to stay calm, cool, confident, indifferent. Stay strong, like a rock. Don't let her see you upset or depressed. Like a rock. Be polite. Take care of yourself and your appearance. Dress and groom yourself in private. Let her only see you fully dressed, hair combed, neat and clean. Clean up after yourself. Nothing will bother her more than this.
> 
> Spend time with your kids, focus on protecting them from this mess. Do not badmouth her to them, let them know they are loved by both of you, that they will be cared for no matter what. Do not give them more information than they ask for or they need.
> 
> Do things with your kids without her. Play games, take them to the movies, bowling, etc., without her. Don't tell her what you are doing, just do it and let her ask you what you are doing and where your are going. Answer politely and let her know if she asks, do not let her come along, even if she asks to.
> 
> Talk no more of her infidelity with her. If she asks, and only if she asks, tell her, "you know what you did and I know what you did. You know it was physical and I know it was physical. I have proof." Then smile at her and tell her from now on you only want to talk to her about finances, custody, and living arrangements.
> 
> Don't drop any more hints and don't tell her what evidence you have. Leaving her in the dark worrying what you have on her while you stay calm and cool will drive her crazy and will get you more truth from her than any other actions you can take. Don't talk to the other man again ever. Talking to your wife or the other man at this point is like talking to the enemy, anything you tell them, even if it gives you short-term satisfaction, they will find a way to use it against you or undermine your efforts. The less they know about your methods of finding out info or your future plans, the better.
> 
> If you haven't already done so, let your and her family and friends know that now you have proof that she is in a physical affair with the other man and she has no intention of ending it. Do not tell them what the proof is. Ask for their prayers and support for you and your children.
> 
> Don't let your wife find out about this site. Take care not to leave your phone or computer open for her to peruse.
> 
> Post back here if anything comes up. Your situation is not unique, we've seen it many times here.
> 
> Cheaters follow a script, your wife is following the script to a T. It's fairly predictable. The other man was OK as a distraction for your wife, the affair provided excitement, and she fogged up and even thought she was in love with him, but now that the affair is exposed (important to expose new facts to your and her family and friends), the affair will die out pretty quickly. Your wife will be feeling you out for reconciliation within a week, two at most.
> 
> The other man is not marriage material, he is not stepfather material, he is not even steady relationship material. He is affair material only. Now that you are proceeding with divorce it no longer will be an affair, it will now be a regular relationship and your wife's expectations of the other man will increase to more than just giving blowjobs in cars. Other man is not interested in anything more than that. Wifey will be coming out of the fog soon.


I hope you're right. I don't intend to take her back but I don't want my kids around OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Will_Kane as usual has come through with sage advice.
> 
> I am writing only to support what he said and to concur, DO NOT communicate with the OM which I know you said you wouldn't but it is mighty tempting. OM's and OWs as you can see are smug and arrogant because they think they've accomplished what you can't, which is make your spouse happy. There is nothing you can say that will dislodge this idea from their minds, it is a wasted effort.
> 
> Please re-read Will_Kane's post carefully, it is fully of detailed ideas and will give you a plan and a purpose.


Began employing most the advice yesterday before written even. Getting myself into a better place mentally, though progress is fragile. But it looks tough on the outside. Should have read forum earlier, slipped up and sent OM an email. Passed him a nice cryptic bible passage, told him I pity him, that someday I would try to forgive in my heart, that I would pray for his kids, and that my wife is ****t because she's out the door to the curb. But that he should go back to his.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

wrsteele1 said:


> I hope you're right. I don't intend to take her back but I don't want my kids around OM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OM doesn't your wife to be near your kids. Your wife is only a temporary fun to him. She'll be dumped before you know it or she'll always be number 2,3,4 to him for years to come.


----------



## wrsteele1

turnera said:


> Are you asking her to move out?


I have but she won't. I moved her upstairs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

You're human. It happens.

I confronted the OW in person myself. What I learned is that they are, to the last, arrogant to a fault. What other type of person would enter into such a relationship with someone who is sworn to another?

But the men on here will tell you, you are inches away from finding yourself in jail. If you engage with him, it could send you into a rage that you don't find your way out of. Let that be the last of it.

Just repeat to yourself: the best revenge is indifference. He is an empty shell of a man, not worthy of the least of your emotions.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> I'm also glad you spoke to your pastor. Somehow I missed your reference to this last night.
> 
> Have you shared these verses with your wife? How religious is she, and her family, compared to you?


I took our marriage gift bible from her Aunt who is a nun out highlighted this passage and left it on her pillow. Liz claims to be religious. I on the other hand have loathed church and not believed in God since 17 years ago. For he past two years I've mostly only said one prayer: god if you exist please grant me the strength to believe in you. I went back to church last Sunday for the first time in years and I kid you not the topic of the day was hurt caused by dishonesty in marriage. I wept thru the sermon. My wife later called that "ironic". I called it the moment I regained my faith in God. How ironic is it that he answered years of my prayers while my marriage was shattered in the same moment.

I'm not taking her back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

keko said:


> OM doesn't your wife to be near your kids. Your wife is only a temporary fun to him. She'll be dumped before you know it or she'll always be number 2,3,4 to him for years to come.


Hope so. Hard for me to see this now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

wrsteele1 said:


> Hope so. Hard for me to see this now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


but on the flip side she will possibly take her anger out of the kids when she does get dumped. You might want to keep a video recorder and/or voice recorder on yourself and at the home when you're away. These will greatly help you in divorce scenario for a decent child custody.


----------



## iheartlife

keko, you are a one-man James Bond and you never let up. You crack me up sometimes.


----------



## Thorburn

wrsteele1 said:


> I took our marriage gift bible from her Aunt who is a nun out highlighted this passage and left it on her pillow. Liz claims to be religious. I on the other hand have loathed church and not believed in God since 17 years ago. For he past two years I've mostly only said one prayer: god if you exist please grant me the strength to believe in you. I went back to church last Sunday for the first time in years and I kid you not the topic of the day was hurt caused by dishonesty in marriage. I wept thru the sermon. My wife later called that "ironic". I called it the moment I regained my faith in God. How ironic is it that he answered years of my prayers while my marriage was shattered in the same moment.
> 
> I'm not taking her back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My faith though wounded is keeping me through this. The sermon topic was ironic. God will see you through this and sometimes when you feel he is not there it may be that at that moment he is carrying you and you do not even realize it.

Again, I am sorry you are going through this.


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Start divorce proceedings.
> 
> Do not talk to your wife except to finances, custody, and living arrangements. Try to stay calm, cool, confident, indifferent. Stay strong, like a rock. Don't let her see you upset or depressed. Like a rock. Be polite. Take care of yourself and your appearance. Dress and groom yourself in private. Let her only see you fully dressed, hair combed, neat and clean. Clean up after yourself. Nothing will bother her more than this.
> 
> Spend time with your kids, focus on protecting them from this mess. Do not badmouth her to them, let them know they are loved by both of you, that they will be cared for no matter what. Do not give them more information than they ask for or they need.
> 
> Do things with your kids without her. Play games, take them to the movies, bowling, etc., without her. Don't tell her what you are doing, just do it and let her ask you what you are doing and where your are going. Answer politely and let her know if she asks, do not let her come along, even if she asks to.
> 
> Talk no more of her infidelity with her. If she asks, and only if she asks, tell her, "you know what you did and I know what you did. You know it was physical and I know it was physical. I have proof." Then smile at her and tell her from now on you only want to talk to her about finances, custody, and living arrangements.
> 
> Don't drop any more hints and don't tell her what evidence you have. Leaving her in the dark worrying what you have on her while you stay calm and cool will drive her crazy and will get you more truth from her than any other actions you can take. Don't talk to the other man again ever. Talking to your wife or the other man at this point is like talking to the enemy, anything you tell them, even if it gives you short-term satisfaction, they will find a way to use it against you or undermine your efforts. The less they know about your methods of finding out info or your future plans, the better.
> 
> If you haven't already done so, let your and her family and friends know that now you have proof that she is in a physical affair with the other man and she has no intention of ending it. Do not tell them what the proof is. Ask for their prayers and support for you and your children.
> 
> Don't let your wife find out about this site. Take care not to leave your phone or computer open for her to peruse.
> 
> Post back here if anything comes up. Your situation is not unique, we've seen it many times here.
> 
> Cheaters follow a script, your wife is following the script to a T. It's fairly predictable. The other man was OK as a distraction for your wife, the affair provided excitement, and she fogged up and even thought she was in love with him, but now that the affair is exposed (important to expose new facts to your and her family and friends), the affair will die out pretty quickly. Your wife will be feeling you out for reconciliation within a week, two at most.
> 
> The other man is not marriage material, he is not stepfather material, he is not even steady relationship material. He is affair material only. Now that you are proceeding with divorce it no longer will be an affair, it will now be a regular relationship and your wife's expectations of the other man will increase to more than just giving blowjobs in cars. Other man is not interested in anything more than that. Wifey will be coming out of the fog soon.


Update:

I have been following this advice pretty much to a T. With a few exceptions: 1) I told about 60 of my friends and family, 2) she was in strong denial about what I knew and continuing to lie to me, and I stopped this by telling her about the tape. She denied at first as many said she would, but relented when she realized hope was lost. She committed to 'try' to stop the lying.

I'm filed for divorce and she's looking for apartments. I tell her everyday this is taking too long and I want her out faster. I tell her I don't care about OM b/c our relationship is over and so she is free to do whatever she wants. She has responded by being less secritive about the relationship: she talks and texts with him late into the night every night in the upstairs bedroom I booted her too. He still has yet to leave his wife as far as I know, though I do wonder how he so freely texts and talks to my wife unless things are as bad there as they are in my house.

Last night she got emotional for the first time and "apologized for hurting me." She did not mention reconcile but I did tell her that after hearing the tape there is no chance for reconcile.

We are cordial now, but still only talking business.

This is hard because I love her and miss her, but I'm still standing strong on moving her out of the house and trying to be the alpha-male and be strong.


----------



## wrsteele1

wrsteele1 said:


> Update:
> 
> I have been following this advice pretty much to a T. With a few exceptions: 1) I told about 60 of my friends and family, 2) she was in strong denial about what I knew and continuing to lie to me, and I stopped this by telling her about the tape. She denied at first as many said she would, but relented when she realized hope was lost. She committed to 'try' to stop the lying.
> 
> I'm filed for divorce and she's looking for apartments. I tell her everyday this is taking too long and I want her out faster. I tell her I don't care about OM b/c our relationship is over and so she is free to do whatever she wants. She has responded by being less secritive about the relationship: she talks and texts with him late into the night every night in the upstairs bedroom I booted her too. He still has yet to leave his wife as far as I know, though I do wonder how he so freely texts and talks to my wife unless things are as bad there as they are in my house.
> 
> Last night she got emotional for the first time and "apologized for hurting me." She did not mention reconcile but I did tell her that after hearing the tape there is no chance for reconcile.
> 
> We are cordial now, but still only talking business.
> 
> This is hard because I love her and miss her, but I'm still standing strong on moving her out of the house and trying to be the alpha-male and be strong.


Some of the other things she said 1) she never meant to hurt me, 2) that it started out innocent and she doesn't know how it got to this, 3) that if she had it to do over again she's not sure if she would have left her job, 4) that I am not the only one that is hurting here, 5) that she still doesn't feel I understand this was partly my responsibility that caused this and its not all her fault and finally 6) that she partly didn't cut off the affair because she didn't feel like she "deserved to be forgiven."


----------



## keko

wrsteele1 said:


> Some of the other things she said 1) she never meant to hurt me, 2) that it started out innocent and she doesn't know how it got to this, 3) that if she had it to do over again she's not sure if she would have left her job, 4) that I am not the only one that is hurting here, 5) that she still doesn't feel I understand this was partly my responsibility that caused this and its not all her fault and finally 6) that she partly didn't cut off the affair because she didn't feel like she "deserved to be forgiven."


Do you see any remorse in these?

Keep pushing her to move out fast. 

Also expect crocodile tears as her time runs out, but don't give in to these.


----------



## wrsteele1

keko said:


> Do you see any remorse in these?
> 
> Keep pushing her to move out fast.
> 
> Also expect crocodile tears as her time runs out, but don't give in to these.


Yes I saw remorse/guilt. She has bags under her eyes and looks like she's carrying the weight of the world on her shoulders. But still playing her emotions close to the vest.


----------



## jh52

keko said:


> Do you see any remorse in these?
> 
> Keep pushing her to move out fast.
> 
> Also expect crocodile tears as her time runs out, but don't give in to these.


Look at #5. Still blaming you for her affair. She is totally 100% responsible for her actions and the affair.


----------



## jh52

wrsteele1 said:


> Some of the other things she said 1) she never meant to hurt me, 2) that it started out innocent and she doesn't know how it got to this, 3) that if she had it to do over again she's not sure if she would have left her job, 4) that I am not the only one that is hurting here, 5) that she still doesn't feel I understand this was partly my responsibility that caused this and its not all her fault and finally 6) that she partly didn't cut off the affair because she didn't feel like she "deserved to be forgiven."


This is the #5 reponse I was talking about. She is 100% responsible for the affair -- and don't let her tell you otherwise.


----------



## keko

jh52 said:


> Look at #5. Still blaming you for her affair. She is totally 100% responsible for her actions and the affair.


Oh I know it, just the poster seemed to have fallen for her crap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

Thanks for the update. I was also appalled that she is blaming you for the cheating. I mean, she was lying straight through MC. If it had not gone PA, she might have a psychological leg to stand on, even though an EA is still a massive betrayal. 

I sense reality setting in, however.

I can't help but wonder what would have happened if she had learned there were other OWs. But her delusions are still deep about the POSOM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

iheartlife said:


> Thanks for the update. I was also appalled that she is blaming you for the cheating. I mean, she was lying straight through MC. If it had not gone PA, she might have a psychological leg to stand on, even though an EA is still a massive betrayal.
> 
> I sense reality setting in, however.
> 
> I can't help but wonder what would have happened if she had learned there were other OWs. But her delusions are still deep about the POSOM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In her mind -- in this "fog" she is in -- I am sure she will think she can change him !! NOT !!!


----------



## jh52

WOW -- from a "good" marriage to divorce in 2.5 months. Unbelievable -- what the fu** was she thinking ??:scratchhead:


----------



## wrsteele1

keko said:


> Oh I know it, just the poster seemed to have fallen for her crap.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I pushed back strong on that actually. Was just passing along what she said, not that I was buying it.

Told her I could have done more, but it was her responsibility to speak up when she was unhappy and that I would take no responsibility for the consequences of her behavior.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Thanks for the update. I was also appalled that she is blaming you for the cheating. I mean, she was lying straight through MC. If it had not gone PA, she might have a psychological leg to stand on, even though an EA is still a massive betrayal.
> 
> I sense reality setting in, however.
> 
> I can't help but wonder what would have happened if she had learned there were other OWs. But her delusions are still deep about the POSOM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes.... his you know what doesn't stink.


----------



## keko

Are you still open for reconciliation? If she asks for forgiveness and apologizes?


----------



## Chaparral

Bags under her eyes. Bless her heart. Guess the POSOM is as much fun as she thought. Think he would run into a burning buliding for her. If she gets sick you think he will be there for her? Ask her that.

She did come up with one small truth, though what she was really doing was fishing, she doesn't deserve to be forgiven. 

Good luck and prayers


----------



## Chaparral

Do they know about all this at her work?


----------



## wrsteele1

keko said:


> Are you still open for reconciliation? If she asks for forgiveness and apologizes?


Repeating in my mind (the answer is no, the answer is no, the answer is no, the answer is no).

If she asks I think I would tell her "leave your job, get an apartment, and I'll think about it. I make no guarantees."


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> Do they know about all this at her work?


First, I think they probably knew before I did even if wife and OM never said anything. Second, if they didn't before they do now since I blew up and nearly got arrested at her job 7 days ago. And Third, they do not know they are fooling around together in the work parking lot.


----------



## warlock07

wrsteele1 said:


> Yes I saw remorse/guilt. She has bags under her eyes and looks like she's carrying the weight of the world on her shoulders. But still playing her emotions close to the vest.


Self pity. They aren't for you or the marriage. All her responses reek of self entitlement and blaming you for all the mistakes. Move on


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> First, I think they probably knew before I did even if wife and OM never said anything. Second, if they didn't before they do now since I blew up and nearly got arrested at her job 7 days ago. And Third, they do not know they are fooling around together in the work parking lot.


OOps, LOL, forgot about the scene at the hospital. Props to you and a fist bump on that one. I hate it when people just lay down and roll over. 

As a matter of fact, I love that song where Carrie Underwood uses a Louisville 
Slugger on cheatin boyfriends car. And the r&b song "I bust the windows out your car". I know I would end up in jail but worse things could happen. Haha

Jazmine Sullivan - Bust Your Windows - YouTube


----------



## warlock07

I think you should inform the HR in any case. Looking at the first post pisses me off even more. She did not know how she got here? By continuously lying to the OP and the therapist. The OM lured her emotionally through the death of his sister. What a piece of scum. Don't worry, she will get her just desserts soon enough


----------



## Acabado

Lying since the beginning, she was all hooked up in a full blown affair since the very beginning, she never had te intentio to stop it, MC was a total waste, she destroyed her solid marriage in 2-3 months and will likely destroy APs. She know it won't last but she gives a sh!i about it. She's a junkey now. What matters is the NOW.


> My wife has told the therapist our relationship was strong before the affair and that it started as "helping a friend through a difficult time"





> 5( that she still doesn't feel I understand this was partly my responsibility


Rewritting and blameshifting all they way. Not owning her sh!t = no remorse.
A junkey mind at work.


----------



## iheartlife

warlock07 said:


> The OM lured her emotionally through the death of his sister. What a piece of scum.


If he even has a sister. 



wrsteele1 said:


> 6) that she partly didn't cut off the affair because she didn't feel like she "deserved to be forgiven."


If you read other threads, the "I don't deserve you" line is pretty common. Sometimes particularly religious WSs will say this. But in any case it means, I plan on continuing the affair, even though it's fully out in the open.



Stay strong.


----------



## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> I think you should inform the HR in any case. Looking at the first post pisses me off even more. She did not know how she got here? By continuously lying to the OP and the therapist. The OM lured her emotionally through the death of his sister. What a piece of scum. Don't worry, she will get her just desserts soon enough


I think I'd still be divorced but would succeed in worsening my child support. I don't see how his would help?

Not only did OM lure through death of sister, when I confronted him 6 weeks ago he used his dead sister to hide the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

You are doing well. Continue on the same path. Do not weaken.

Your wife is very stubborn and very deep in the fog, but she is coming out of it.

You can see her deterioration.

The closer she gets to moving out, being forced to see how lousy it will be financially and the issues involved with seeing and caring for her children, and the fact that the other man is only interested in her as a sex toy, the more she will come out of the fog.

It may need to reach the point where she actually moves out and she sees the other man is not doing the same before she comes back.

Whether or not you want her back is not something you have to decide now. Your goal at this point is to keep that option open.

Having all family and friends know helps ensure she feels the pressure from all angles. They are not in the fog and they can see it for what it is. If her parents question whether or not the affair is physical, let them know you have a tape of her giving the other man a blowjob in the parking lot and let them know the other man is using her as a sex toy.

If she brings up the affair again, ask her does she think the other man is going to leave his wife for her or does she think the other man maybe just likes to text her about having sex and then get blowjobs in the parking lot and maybe is just stringing her along.

If you let her stay in the house and do not force the issue, she would be perfectly happy to continue the affair the way it was forever. Had you not found out and forced the issue, who knows how long your wife would have let you continue on in the pain you were in, wondering what was going on?

Do you feel better about yourself following the path your on now as opposed to where you were a few weeks ago before you knew the truth?


----------



## turnera

chapparal said:


> And the r&b song "I bust the windows out your car". I know I would end up in jail but worse things could happen. Haha
> 
> Jazmine Sullivan - Bust Your Windows - YouTube


I like the Glee version better:
Glee - Bust Your Windows (Full Performance) HD - YouTube


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> You are doing well. Continue on the same path. Do not weaken.
> 
> Your wife is very stubborn and very deep in the fog, but she is coming out of it.
> 
> You can see her deterioration.
> 
> The closer she gets to moving out, being forced to see how lousy it will be financially and the issues involved with seeing and caring for her children, and the fact that the other man is only interested in her as a sex toy, the more she will come out of the fog.
> 
> It may need to reach the point where she actually moves out and she sees the other man is not doing the same before she comes back.
> 
> Whether or not you want her back is not something you have to decide now. Your goal at this point is to keep that option open.
> 
> Having all family and friends know helps ensure she feels the pressure from all angles. They are not in the fog and they can see it for what it is. If her parents question whether or not the affair is physical, let them know you have a tape of her giving the other man a blowjob in the parking lot and let them know the other man is using her as a sex toy.
> 
> If she brings up the affair again, ask her does she think the other man is going to leave his wife for her or does she think the other man maybe just likes to text her about having sex and then get blowjobs in the parking lot and maybe is just stringing her along.
> 
> If you let her stay in the house and do not force the issue, she would be perfectly happy to continue the affair the way it was forever. Had you not found out and forced the issue, who knows how long your wife would have let you continue on in the pain you were in, wondering what was going on?
> 
> Do you feel better about yourself following the path your on now as opposed to where you were a few weeks ago before you knew the truth?


I think I'm done talking to her family. They have enough of their own pain, I've talked to them in an "intervention" like fashion, and I just don't have the desire to do it again. Even if they don't know the full truth.

My plan is to take your advice and keep pushing her out. But I'm not doing it to promote R, I'm doing it because I don't want my wife in my house when she is not committed to our marriage. At this point even if she did commit to our marriage (unfathomable), I would still want her out. When I see her I wish everything was OK, so I would rather just start a new chapter and adjust to a new reality.

Yes I feel better about my path. I got the closure I needed, and I might not know all the answers (ie when did this start), but I know enough. I wish I knew more, but I do know enough to take care of my own psyche.

In taking the path I've taken, I feel I've regained myself. I can allow myself to have fun again (first time in 6 weeks). I can successfully redirect my thoughts when appropriate. I can enjoy my time with my girls. I know she screwed up royally and I know she will regret what she's thrown away. I have pride in the way I've handled the situation. The five darkest days of my life have all happened in the last 6 weeks, yet I'm still alive, and even well.


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> In taking the path I've taken, I feel I've regained myself. I can allow myself to have fun again (first time in 6 weeks). I can successfully redirect my thoughts when appropriate. I can enjoy my time with my girls. I know she screwed up royally and I know she will regret what she's thrown away. I have pride in the way I've handled the situation. The five darkest days of my life have all happened in the last 6 weeks, yet I'm still alive, and even well.


I still look back in shock to where you were on May 29 and now it's only June 13.

I know it was hard to verify what she was really up to. I know that it was nothing short of traumatic. But this is why, if you can be brave enough to do it, verification is the way to go. Many people don't "get" it. Those are people who would D her over texting; or D her over half-heartedly reconciling. But she was never going to D, or else she was only going to do it when she was good and ready. And she was going to lie to everyone, including her own children, about why you would D her if you couldn't prove the truth. Some people wouldn't care about that, but I know I would.

A lot of people think that cheating is about sex. But it isn't--it's about cruelly lying to you so they can have it all. It takes a level of consciousness and premeditation that takes your breath away when you contemplate it.

The only explanation for it is the psychological compartmentalization that's required to manage this. She is not insane (she knows it's wrong) and she can function in society. If the two halves of her brain met up and fully contemplated what she's done, it would cause something approaching mental breakdown. I may be wrong--but I see that in her future. She's still inside the bubble so the full impact hasn't hit.

On a personal note--I can see my time on CWI winding down. I wondered for a while why stick around at all. But it's been very healing. Many times all it comes down to is someone realizing, as you have, that you ARE a good person and that you WILL come out the other side. There are still more tough times ahead, but you are stronger than you think.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> I still look back in shock to where you were on May 29 and now it's only June 13.
> 
> I know it was hard to verify what she was really up to. I know that it was nothing short of traumatic. But this is why, if you can be brave enough to do it, verification is the way to go. Many people don't "get" it. Those are people who would D her over texting; or D her over half-heartedly reconciling. But she was never going to D, or else she was only going to do it when she was good and ready. And she was going to lie to everyone, including her own children, about why you would D her if you couldn't prove the truth. Some people wouldn't care about that, but I know I would.
> 
> A lot of people think that cheating is about sex. But it isn't--it's about cruelly lying to you so they can have it all. It takes a level of consciousness and premeditation that takes your breath away when you contemplate it.
> 
> The only explanation for it is the psychological compartmentalization that's required to manage this. She is not insane (she knows it's wrong) and she can function in society. If the two halves of her brain met up and fully contemplated what she's done, it would cause something approaching mental breakdown. I may be wrong--but I see that in her future. She's still inside the bubble so the full impact hasn't hit.
> 
> On a personal note--I can see my time on CWI winding down. I wondered for a while why stick around at all. But it's been very healing. Many times all it comes down to is someone realizing, as you have, that you ARE a good person and that you WILL come out the other side. There are still more tough times ahead, but you are stronger than you think.


What is CWI?


----------



## keko

Coping With Infidelity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

She its treating me like crap but won't move out. Wants to move out on July 8. I really don't want her in the house 3 more weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> She its treating me like crap but won't move out. Wants to move out on July 8. I really don't want her in the house 3 more weeks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have read and studied the 180, correct? Now is the time to employ it. Only cheerful self-confidence (but indifference) toward her. It's you time now, being the best person you know how to be, living your life as you will need to anyhow whether she stays or goes.


----------



## turnera

Yeah. Just pretend she's not there. Don't make her food, don't wash her clothes, don't include her in any activities. Go out and have fun every night when you get off work. Let her see what she's created.


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> She its treating me like crap but won't move out. Wants to move out on July 8. I really don't want her in the house 3 more weeks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Out of curiosity, what is magical about July 8?


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Out of curiosity, what is magical about July 8?


First Saturday her family is available to move her. She won't let me move her. Or my friends. And since I get most all the friends in the divorce, she really has nobody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

Why doesn't other man help her move out?

She's giving him blowjobs in her car. Helping her move seems like the least he can do.


----------



## Jibril

Will_Kane said:


> Why doesn't other man help her move out?


I think the obvious answer to this is - because he wants to $%&* her. Not take care of her.


----------



## Will_Kane

Does she have an apartment? Paying everything for herself?

What are the custody arrangements?


----------



## Chaparral

The Healing Heart: The 180

Read it live it breath it. Your wife will hate it. Show her no emotion or anger. She is just someone you used to know and don't care for.


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Why doesn't other man help her move out?
> 
> She's giving him blowjobs in her car. Helping her move seems like the least he can do.


I pointed this out to her, you should have seen the non verbal communication she sent back. It said something along the lines of "he would NEVER do that and the idea of asking for it makes me sick to my stomach."

Can't say whether he's left his wife but I don't think so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Does she have an apartment? Paying everything for herself?
> 
> What are the custody arrangements?


Yes, deposit down 30 days to move in. Yes but on tight budget. She canceling gym membership that she uses religiously and has for years.

She gets Wednesday Thurs and every other fri sat sun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BigLiam

wrsteele1 said:


> She its treating me like crap but won't move out. Wants to move out on July 8. I really don't want her in the house 3 more weeks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nair in the shampoo.


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> The Healing Heart: The 180
> 
> Read it live it breath it. Your wife will hate it. Show her no emotion or anger. She is just someone you used to know and don't care for.


Trying but I'm failing at the apathy. At least every other day I tell her to get out faster. My wife on the other hand has been a Jedi master at these tactics her whole life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> I pointed this out to her, you should have seen the non verbal communication she sent back. It said something along the lines of "he would NEVER do that and the idea of asking for it makes me sick to my stomach."
> 
> Can't say whether he's left his wife but I don't think so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Has she said a peep about R? Does she think it's a hopeless cause? It sounds like she's very angry. Does she say why, or has she shut down all communications?

Sounds like the POSOM is behaving as expected right on schedule. 

It is too bad she can't go sooner. That is one ice-cold dump of reality coming her way when she leaves the house.


----------



## wrsteele1

BigLiam said:


> Nair in the shampoo.


Haha ... Wouldn't resort to this but did piss her off yesterday. She asked why I was being such a **** by being so insistent she move out now. So I thought if being a **** would work maybe I should actually show her what that looks like. Her bedroom is upstairs and we had a battle where I continuously set the thermostat to 76 degrees. It really made her mad. She has absolutely no concept of how selfish it is that she won't leave. She thinks she should be able to carry out her affair and live in the house at the same time and that I should just be ok with that. And that is not going to happen without a battle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> Trying but I'm failing at the apathy. At least every other day I tell her to get out faster. My wife on the other hand has been a Jedi master at these tactics her whole life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Someone else already said it, but you need fun plans to get you out of the house. With all those friends, I'd be getting together with someone different every night for happy hour or something. Or taking the kids out to the movies or what have you. You need a good hair cut and a new shirt, pair of jeans. Like you're going on a blind date. The point isn't to attract women but to feel good about yourself.

Maybe you wake up in the morning and read the 180 and think about how to plan your day so you can live it. It's really about occupying your time just so and then you aren't stuck in the same room with her. Plus plans keep your mind occupied.

Start eating healthy if you aren't already, get lots of sleep. Exercise. Really, it's like a training plan. There are any number of ways you can improve yourself and now is the time to throw yourself in whole-heartedly. It is very hard--everyone knows this. But keep your concentration on the moment at hand, the past is over and the future may not ever arrive. Fake apathy until you make it.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Has she said a peep about R? Does she think it's a hopeless cause? It sounds like she's very angry. Does she say why, or has she shut down all communications?
> 
> Sounds like the POSOM is behaving as expected right on schedule.
> 
> It is too bad she can't go sooner. That is one ice-cold dump of reality coming her way when she leaves the house.


She looks ANGRY. I actually asked her today what her problem is. She is being a word that rhymes with witch, and it is actually mind boggling. I have no idea what is going on with her. To say she's shut down communication is the understatement of the decade. Nothing on R, LOTS of anger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Someone else already said it, but you need fun plans to get you out of the house. With all those friends, I'd be getting together with someone different every night for happy hour or something. Or taking the kids out to the movies or what have you. You need a good hair cut and a new shirt, pair of jeans. Like you're going on a blind date. The point isn't to attract women but to feel good about yourself.
> 
> Maybe you wake up in the morning and read the 180 and think about how to plan your day so you can live it. It's really about occupying your time just so and then you aren't stuck in the same room with her. Plus plans keep your mind occupied.
> 
> Start eating healthy if you aren't already, get lots of sleep. Exercise. Really, it's like a training plan. There are any number of ways you can improve yourself and now is the time to throw yourself in whole-heartedly. It is very hard--everyone knows this. But keep your concentration on the moment at hand, the past is over and the future may not ever arrive. Fake apathy until you make it.


Other than apathy doing good with this. Lost 25 lbs last 6 weeks with diet and exercise, but actually can lift more and run faster with better endurance. My abs look better than they did 14 years ago when I played high school sports. I can't go anywhere without someone saying WTF I just saw you a month ago what happened! Doing fun stuff with friends now too. Honestly, life is as good as it can be under the circumstances, but I need her out of the house to move past a certain point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Has she said a peep about R? Does she think it's a hopeless cause? It sounds like she's very angry. Does she say why, or has she shut down all communications?
> 
> Sounds like the POSOM is behaving as expected right on schedule.
> 
> It is too bad she can't go sooner. That is one ice-cold dump of reality coming her way when she leaves the house.


I do think she thinks it is a hopeless cause
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> She looks ANGRY. I actually asked her today what her problem is. She is being a word that rhymes with witch, and it is actually mind boggling. I have no idea what is going on with her. To say she's shut down communication is the understatement of the decade. Nothing on R, LOTS of anger.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, she is angry because fantasyland is getting ruined. If you want to f*ck with her mind, don't play games with the thermostat. Seriously, you have about a billion things to do that will make you a better person. It sounds like you are well on your way, kudos for that :smthumbup:

just repeat to yourself: the best revenge is indifference


----------



## Acabado

The bubble just vanished. Not she gets a huge hangover.


----------



## Chaparral

You and the kids need to be out of the house a lot. She needs lots of alone time. 

Be a nice guy and go buy her a bunch of boxes. Have you gotten ALL her stuff out of your room? Have you taken down any pictures with her in them? Replace them with pictures of you and the kids.

Sorry, I don't think anyone could live with me if I turned on them.

Also its none of her business where you are now or what you are doing.


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> You and the kids need to be out of the house a lot. She needs lots of alone time.
> 
> Be a nice guy and go buy her a bunch of boxes. Have you gotten ALL her stuff out of your room? Have you taken down any pictures with her in them? Replace them with pictures of you and the kids.
> 
> Sorry, I don't think anyone could live with me if I turned on them.
> 
> Also its none of her business where you are now or what you are doing.


I could be more of a **** no doubt, but that's really not who I am. The pictures thing is a thought. We still have wedding pictures hanging and I hate to admit it, but I don't want to take them down bc they remind me of a better time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> I could be more of a **** no doubt, but that's really not who I am. The pictures thing is a thought. We still have wedding pictures hanging and I hate to admit it, but I don't want to take them down bc they remind me of a better time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That ain't helping you. Take them downand put them on her bed. 

Buying her some boxes isn't mean. Its showing her you are strong and she has to live with her decisions. All this anger is really for her self and Doc Feelgood. 

Weakness in you makes her feel like she has done the right thing. She compares everything you do to the doc, a man who takes what he wants. Every time you show weakness it disgusts her.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you read Married Man Sex Life?


----------



## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> Did you read Married Man Sex Life?


No
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

Start making the changes in the house you will need as a single parent. Don't bother about what she might think.
The wedding photos need to go out already. Put them in a box.

Help yourself with detachment by actually moving on


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> No
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This will explain a lot to you about what has happened and why. It is must reading for every male. You need it before you start dating again too.

Also, read No More Mister Nice Guy.

BTW the title is somewhat mis leading. It souunds like a sex manual, its not.


----------



## Chaparral

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


No More Mr. Nice Guy


----------



## Will_Kane

*She looks ANGRY. I actually asked her today what her problem is. She is being a word that rhymes with witch, and it is actually mind boggling. I have no idea what is going on with her. To say she's shut down communication is the understatement of the decade. Nothing on R, LOTS of anger.*

You are ruining her life. She always counted on you being there for her after she was done with other man. It was very comforting for her to know that she always had you, no matter what happened with other man.

She is angry now because her fantasy is not working out the way she had pictured it in her mind and, to her, YOU are the cause. She was counting on you crying and weeping and begging her to stay, not pushing her out the door. The fact that you look good, seem like you are ready to happily move on without her, everybody knows she is a cheater, and other man is NOT leaving his wife for her are all salt in her wounds.

If she wanted to move out, she would have found a way. She doesn't want to give you up. Expect more foot-dragging as move-out day approaches.

The way your wife is acting is the way the cheaters act when they really are sure their spouse will always take them back. In the past, did you always let her have her way before this, always give in to her and agree she was right even when she was wrong? In other words, were you kind of a doormat to her before this?


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> *She looks ANGRY. I actually asked her today what her problem is. She is being a word that rhymes with witch, and it is actually mind boggling. I have no idea what is going on with her. To say she's shut down communication is the understatement of the decade. Nothing on R, LOTS of anger.*
> 
> You are ruining her life. She always counted on you being there for her after she was done with other man. It was very comforting for her to know that she always had you, no matter what happened with other man.
> 
> She is angry now because her fantasy is not working out the way she had pictured it in her mind and, to her, YOU are the cause. She was counting on you crying and weeping and begging her to stay, not pushing her out the door. The fact that you look good, seem like you are ready to happily move on without her, everybody knows she is a cheater, and other man is NOT leaving his wife for her are all salt in her wounds.
> 
> If she wanted to move out, she would have found a way. She doesn't want to give you up. Expect more foot-dragging as move-out day approaches.
> 
> The way your wife is acting is the way the cheaters act when they really are sure their spouse will always take them back. In the past, did you always let her have her way before this, always give in to her and agree she was right even when she was wrong? In other words, were you kind of a doormat to her before this?


I don't know. I wouldn't say so but maybe I'm missing something. I can't recall her ever telling me "no" even once in our 11 years. The only thing we ever fought about was the occasional battle about our sex life, which I often got bored with. She's never done anything that was bad enough for me to have "too soft" a response too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> I don't know. I wouldn't say so but maybe I'm missing something. I can't recall her ever telling me "no" even once in our 11 years. The only thing we ever fought about was the occasional battle about our sex life, which I often got bored with. She's never done anything that was bad enough for me to have "too soft" a response too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, you need to read the books.


----------



## wrsteele1

So it's 8 am. She went out with friends last night. She never came home nor did she text me she wasn't coming home. So the gameplan really is pretend like I don't care about this? How inconsiderate! A perfect example of her recent behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

I don't care what she does but GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

*So it's 8 am. She went out with friends last night. She never came home nor did she text me she wasn't coming home. So the gameplan really is pretend like I don't care about this? How inconsiderate! A perfect example of her recent behavior.*

Yes, pretend like you don't care. Don't even bring it up. Act like you didn't notice.

I would suggest not even being home when she gets home. If you can, take the kids and go out for the day. Go to the mall, go to a playground, have some lunch, go to a movie, come home tonight.


----------



## Will_Kane

And don't tell her where you're going or what you're doing. If she texts you and asks, let her know, but don't initiate telling her.


----------



## wrsteele1

Thanks Will. I would be making so many more mistakes if not for this forum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Take the kids out. You all don't have to come home either. When she texts you tell her you did not want you and the kids to be around her on fathers day.


----------



## MattMatt

Could you book an overnight stay at a theme park or something for you and your children?


----------



## Chaparral

HaHa, if it were me, my kids and me would be on a plane to Disney World if I had to charge the whole trip.


----------



## happyman64

Will_Kane said:


> *She looks ANGRY. I actually asked her today what her problem is. She is being a word that rhymes with witch, and it is actually mind boggling. I have no idea what is going on with her. To say she's shut down communication is the understatement of the decade. Nothing on R, LOTS of anger.*
> 
> You are ruining her life. She always counted on you being there for her after she was done with other man. It was very comforting for her to know that she always had you, no matter what happened with other man.
> 
> She is angry now because her fantasy is not working out the way she had pictured it in her mind and, to her, YOU are the cause. She was counting on you crying and weeping and begging her to stay, not pushing her out the door. The fact that you look good, seem like you are ready to happily move on without her, everybody knows she is a cheater, and other man is NOT leaving his wife for her are all salt in her wounds.
> 
> If she wanted to move out, she would have found a way. She doesn't want to give you up. Expect more foot-dragging as move-out day approaches.
> 
> The way your wife is acting is the way the cheaters act when they really are sure their spouse will always take them back. In the past, did you always let her have her way before this, always give in to her and agree she was right even when she was wrong? In other words, were you kind of a doormat to her before this?


Will Kane hit it right on the head. 

And I know you love your wife still and probably wnat her to come to you to offer R.

But in my opinion she has to leave and get her kids part time and feel what it is like to be on her own.

I do not think she is going to like separation one bit. She isnot going to like 50/50 custody as well.

But she needs to live with these consequences for her crappy actions.

And who knows, she might want to come back and work on the marriage. But you must not be her Plan B. You must be Plan A.

And that is why she needs to go!!!

Take care of yourself and have a great Fathers Day with your girls.....

HM64


----------



## happyman64

Will_Kane said:


> *She looks ANGRY. I actually asked her today what her problem is. She is being a word that rhymes with witch, and it is actually mind boggling. I have no idea what is going on with her. To say she's shut down communication is the understatement of the decade. Nothing on R, LOTS of anger.*
> 
> You are ruining her life. She always counted on you being there for her after she was done with other man. It was very comforting for her to know that she always had you, no matter what happened with other man.
> 
> She is angry now because her fantasy is not working out the way she had pictured it in her mind and, to her, YOU are the cause. She was counting on you crying and weeping and begging her to stay, not pushing her out the door. The fact that you look good, seem like you are ready to happily move on without her, everybody knows she is a cheater, and other man is NOT leaving his wife for her are all salt in her wounds.
> 
> If she wanted to move out, she would have found a way. She doesn't want to give you up. Expect more foot-dragging as move-out day approaches.
> 
> The way your wife is acting is the way the cheaters act when they really are sure their spouse will always take them back. In the past, did you always let her have her way before this, always give in to her and agree she was right even when she was wrong? In other words, were you kind of a doormat to her before this?


Will Kane hit it right on the head. 

And I know you love your wife still and probably wnat her to come to you to offer R.

But in my opinion she has to leave and get her kids part time and feel what it is like to be on her own.

I do not think she is going to like separation one bit. She isnot going to like 50/50 custody as well.

But she needs to live with these consequences for her crappy actions.

And who knows, she might want to come back and work on the marriage. But you must not be her Plan B. You must be Plan A.

And that is why she needs to go!!!


Ignore her when she gets home, she just wants a rise out of you. 


Take care of yourself and have a great Fathers Day with your girls.....

HM64


----------



## anealka

She has to end the affair or he needs to leave the job. They are seeing each other at work every day. This is not good for your marriage. You need to take action. Get some one to be the middle person to sort things out between both of you. In this case, i think the best would be parents.


----------



## anealka

anealka said:


> She has to end the affair or he needs to leave the job. They are seeing each other at work every day. This is not good for your marriage. You need to take action. Get some one to be the middle person to sort things out between both of you. In this case, i think the best would be parents.


----------



## turnera

wrsteele1 said:


> So it's 8 am. She went out with friends last night. She never came home nor did she text me she wasn't coming home. So the gameplan really is pretend like I don't care about this? How inconsiderate! A perfect example of her recent behavior.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A Nice Guy would bug her about it. A Real Guy would ignore this woman who will soon be out of his life and treat her like any other person he doesn't want to deal with: HE WOULDN'T DEAL WITH HER. She's just a freeloader who will soon be leaving his home.


----------



## Chaparral

She's angry , she's baiting you, don't bite.


----------



## Will_Kane

*She's angry , she's baiting you, don't bite.*

It's very likely this is what is going on, very likely she is trying to get you to return to the days when she knew you would be there for her in case her affair didn't work out. 

As you continue to play it cool, *expect her to ramp up her bad behavior to get a reaction from you. Don't give her one*.

Her miscalculation with you is that she pushed you too far, and now you are reaching the point where you really don't care if she comes back. As it is, if she ended all her cheating and lying immediately right now and begged you to take her back, you would consider it. If she keeps this up much longer, you will reach a place where you will no longer consider it. 

I think she eventually will be begging you to take her back, but by that time, she may have done so much damage to you that you will no longer be willing to give it any consideration whatsoever.


----------



## Acabado

> I think she eventually will be begging you to take her back


I have no doubts about it. Reality still didn't hit her. She has to hide from real friends, her family pissed off, the finances, the shared custody... it will hit her like a wall of bricks.

Keep detaching, hard 180, don't engage her any form. Don't give her any kind of emotional response. She's just a ghost there. Don't wait for her to move out. Start changing now.


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> *She's angry , she's baiting you, don't bite.*
> 
> It's very likely this is what is going on, very likely she is trying to get you to return to the days when she knew you would be there for her in case her affair didn't work out.
> 
> As you continue to play it cool, *expect her to ramp up her bad behavior to get a reaction from you. Don't give her one*.
> 
> Her miscalculation with you is that she pushed you too far, and now you are reaching the point where you really don't care if she comes back. As it is, if she ended all her cheating and lying immediately right now and begged you to take her back, you would consider it. If she keeps this up much longer, you will reach a place where you will no longer consider it.
> 
> I think she eventually will be begging you to take her back, but by that time, she may have done so much damage to you that you will no longer be willing to give it any consideration whatsoever.


Hard to imagine her asking this. She still deep in the fog i think. Reason i think so is what happened yesterday plus the continuous correspondence. Thousands of texts per month i bet. Playing it more cool and will try to keep this up. Yesterday had her watch the kids while I had a "jogging date" with a "new friend." I let her believe what she wanted to believe about this. However as I left the last thing she told me was "have fun" and she actually seemed happy I was doing this. I didn't lie to her, just let her believe the worst, but my jogging friend is a man I met at church support group.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Good. Now let go and say what you want without thinking about it being a way to get her back.


----------



## Will_Kane

"I think she eventually will be begging you to take her back "

*Hard to imagine her asking this. She still deep in the fog i think. Reason i think so is what happened yesterday plus the continuous correspondence. Thousands of texts per month i bet.*

Right now, she is in essentially the same position she was before you knew, except now she can be more open about it. She can carry on her affair, you are there to take care of the house and kids. All good for her.

I wouldn't expect anything to change until the date for her moving gets closer and the reality of the new situation begins to sink in. Maybe July 1, maybe July 5, maybe when she moves out July 8.

Her having an apartment of her own ready to move to, having offers of help from you to move her stuff there, but her not wanting to go there, speaks volumes. She is very happy with the status quo. Her attitude will not change until the situation changes.

*continuous correspondence. Thousands of texts per month i bet*

This is the sign of a very immature relationship. Her mind is in "teenage" mode. If you could see what they were texting, you would be shocked at how immature all the messages are. She is totally consumed by him, in a very childish, immature way. A lot of drama and excitement. A lot of "you're so hot's," a lot of "I love you's," a lot of "you're xxck is perfect's," and unfortunately probably some level of poking fun at your and his wife's predicament, "he's acting so pathetic now," "he's making believe he has a date now," etc. From other man's end, he's texting your wife about how his wife is unattractive, he never touches her, he will be leaving her soon, school will be out soon, right after my youngest's birthday, etc., and how hot your wife is, how sexy, how good at sex. He probably doesn't initiate the "I love you" and "I want to be with you forever" stuff, but just replies in kind to her texts. For him, it's all about the sex. For her, it's all about an exciting new relationship with her soulmate. Just in case you wanted to know what they're texting each other.

*I had a "jogging date" with a "new friend." I let her believe what she wanted to believe about this. However as I left the last thing she told me was "have fun" and she actually seemed happy I was doing this. I didn't lie to her, just let her believe the worst*

As you can see, in her current state, this had the opposite effect of what you wanted. Not only is she glad you're moving on, it helps her to justify in her mind that her affair is legitimate since you're now having one, too. Don't be surprised if she brings up that you're cheating on her, too, just based on that one "date." I don't recommend playing that game.

It's better to just keep her in the dark about where you're going, what you're doing, who you're seeing. Let her know only as much as you have to in order to arrange for care of your children. If you're going out in the evening and she's home, just a simple, "I'm going out, I don't know when I'll be back." If you need to make plans in advance, "I'm going out Thursday night, I need you to watch the kids." If she asks where you're going and with whom, tell her she can reach you on your cell if she needs you, tell her, "I'd rather not say" and stick with that if she pushes for more info.


----------



## Will_Kane

*continuous correspondence. Thousands of texts per month i bet*

Her: just woke up. how r u? miss me?

Him: im hard. wish u were here.

Her: ur xxck is perfect.

Her: do u think of me when im not with u?

Him: always.

Her: is it just b/c of sex or b/c im so awesome?

Him: ur awesome and smokin hot.

Her: i saw u talking to sara at work. she wants u. do u think she's hot?

Him: ur the hottest.

You get the idea. On and on. All day. All night. Whenever they're apart. Many of your wife's texts are related to her insecurity in the situation, seeking affirmation from the other man that he really loves her, is not in it just for the sex, wants to spend his life with her, thinks she's pretty, thinks she's sexy, isn't losing interest in her, seeking affirmation that she is still #1 to him when she sees him flirting with other nurses. She is thrilled that other man chooses her over the other one or two or three nurses who flirt with him, but this also keeps your wife on the hook and working hard to keep other man's interest. Other man is only interested in putting in enough work to get what he wants from your wife - sex. He also likes that he can so easily manipulate her. It's a game to him, and he enjoys playing.


----------



## iheartlife

Will_Kane said:


> Not only is she glad you're moving on, it helps her to justify in her mind that her affair is legitimate since you're now having one, too.


This was my reaction to her 'happiness' ; it just relieves her guilt some.

Nothing has changed. She was a cake eater before, and she still is. She sees the kids, she's in the house, there's no financial reprocussions. She isn't experiencing reality. 

That guy--let's say he leaves his wife. He's got a woman in every broom closet. I almost feel sorry for her; but she will only get what is coming from having a **** for a BF.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Update?


----------



## BigLiam

Will_Kane said:


> *continuous correspondence. Thousands of texts per month i bet*
> 
> Her: just woke up. how r u? miss me?
> 
> Him: im hard. wish u were here.
> 
> Her: ur xxck is perfect.
> 
> Her: do u think of me when im not with u?
> 
> Him: always.
> 
> Her: is it just b/c of sex or b/c im so awesome?
> 
> Him: ur awesome and smokin hot.
> 
> Her: i saw u talking to sara at work. she wants u. do u think she's hot?
> 
> Him: ur the hottest.
> 
> You get the idea. On and on. All day. All night. Whenever they're apart. Many of your wife's texts are related to her insecurity in the situation, seeking affirmation from the other man that he really loves her, is not in it just for the sex, wants to spend his life with her, thinks she's pretty, thinks she's sexy, isn't losing interest in her, seeking affirmation that she is still #1 to him when she sees him flirting with other nurses. She is thrilled that other man chooses her over the other one or two or three nurses who flirt with him, but this also keeps your wife on the hook and working hard to keep other man's interest. Other man is only interested in putting in enough work to get what he wants from your wife - sex. He also likes that he can so easily manipulate her. It's a game to him, and he enjoys playing.



Schmoopies?


----------



## iheartlife

BigLiam said:


> Schmoopies?


Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't picture him telling her she's his soulmate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

iheartlife said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't picture him telling her she's his soulmate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do. I picture him telling her the moon is made of green cheese if it keeps her hooked. For a while that is.

I heard a nurse on a radio call in one time and she was asked if things were as bad as in the TV show Grey's Anatomy. ( That was not the main topic, just an aside) and she said real life was way worse, especially for the night shift when things were slow and there are plenty of empty beds. 

I turned a corner going to the cafeteria when my wife was in the hospital and saw two hospital workers groping each other. They both had on wedding rings and looked as ashamed as hell when I gave them a cold stare. It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. But I was p!ssed and they knew it.


----------



## jnj express

Hey Chap---karma would have been, if you had told them, I am reporting this to your supervisor, and the hospital ownership, and I am going to call your spouses, and tell them what you are doing----obviously none of it would have happened---but you certainly would have changed their lifestyle, real quick.


----------



## Chaparral

Well there was that big scene in the hospital. And, I've been wondering if he has had any further contact with Dr. Feelgood's wife. I'm the sort that would have taken the doctor out in every way I could imagine, but that's just me. The good doctor would be regretting this until the day he died.


----------



## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> Well there was that big scene in the hospital. And, I've been wondering if he has had any further contact with Dr. Feelgood's wife. I'm the sort that would have taken the doctor out in every way I could imagine, but that's just me. The good doctor would be regretting this until the day he died.


There are many OM's who have nothing to lose. I've always gathered that he isn't one of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

A doctor on cheaterville .com and a billboard too. Picket line at the hospital, not to mention the song in my signature.


----------



## turnera

update?


----------



## LostWifeCrushed

All I can say after all this?

His initially calling the OM a "gentlemen" is a reflection of HIS character, not a sign of respect to the OM.


----------



## turnera

LostWifeCrushed said:


> All I can say after all this?
> 
> His initially calling the OM a "gentlemen" is a reflection of HIS character


Or intrinsic weakness and need for professional therapy.


----------



## LostWifeCrushed

turnera said:


> Or intrinsic weakness and need for professional therapy.


Ouch. Point taken. Still, good character, though.


----------



## wrsteele1

turnera said:


> update?


There isn't much to update. Shes still a ***** and still isn't moved out. I'm doing the 180 and looking forward to the lifestyle of a single person. I'm ready to kick her to the curb but so long as shes out of my house I'm satisfied, whether separated or divorced. Other women are flirting with me and I like it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

turnera said:


> Or intrinsic weakness and need for professional therapy.


I hope the earlier. Remember in the beginning I thought he was a poor sole who lost his sister to suicide and was innocent of being a d0uchebag. When I found out the truth I went ballistic and fortunately didn't see OM or I would be in jail today. Though I have had a major personal change through this. Though I am still the same moral, ethical person I always was, I now care so much less that everyone has that opinion of me. I have an "edge" that I did not possess before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> There are many OM's who have nothing to lose. I've always gathered that he isn't one of them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wouldn't think so. He makes over 1000000 per year and is a partner in a doctor owned hospital. He definitely has things to lose. Only thing is, so do I. Would prefer not to get my wife fired because I intend to divorce get and I don't want her depending on me for support more than is necessary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57

Thats what you need that edge. Believe me, no one will ever call me nobel. I do good things for peeps, but most know not to cross me. So edge is good. Just don't let it define you.


----------



## keko

Haven't you started the divorce yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

Yes I have keko. There is a 60 day cooling off period. She is wanting to fight me for a true 50/50. She might get it, but I'm self employed and need health insurance. So if I want I can quibble over the 500 worth of stuff she wants to argue over, or better yet ignore her, but during that period I'll save 500 puter month for each month I drag it out. So I haven't decided if I want to expedite or just get her out and milk it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

Does your wife show any interest in your children?


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> I wouldn't think so. He makes over 1000000 per year and is a partner in a doctor owned hospital. He definitely has things to lose. Only thing is, so do I. Would prefer not to get my wife fired because I intend to divorce get and I don't want her depending on me for support more than is necessary.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, that was exactly what I meant, he has a lot to lose. But you are sure about D now and that does change your course of action. Keep us updated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Does your wife show any interest in your children?


She is a team player, but also has given me kids over 50/50 so far.	But custody agreement will be 50/50. She does stuff with them but is always texting or talking to OM when she has them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

wrsteele1 said:


> She is a team player, but also has given me kids over 50/50 so far.	But custody agreement will be 50/50. She does stuff with them but is always texting or talking to OM when she has them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WR,

Your wife is going to crash and crash hard.

On July 8th help her pack her stuff on that day so she never has to come back to your home. Do it with a big smile that says "What a dumb Bi*ch you turned out to be!!!".

That way when she does crash the flames will not burn you and hopefully not your children.

And I hope you find peace. It is amazing how bad these waywards get with their behavior. And so sad when the fantasy ends and reality smacks them in the middle of their forehead and their wallet.

HM64


----------



## turnera

You ought to rent a storage unit for 2 months, move all her crap in it, so that she's living out of a suitcase for now. That way, you don't have to deal with her 'move' - whoever is then in her life will.


----------



## wrsteele1

Thanks HM. I hope you're right on the crash. Everybody seems to think that. It's a little hard to see from my perspective. You're right it is amazing how wayward my WS has gone. It's unbelievable because it is so against the grain of who she was the first 10.5 years I knew her.

I do know one thing for sure: I will find peace. That said though, I will always be different than I was before.


----------



## wrsteele1

turnera said:


> You ought to rent a storage unit for 2 months, move all her crap in it, so that she's living out of a suitcase for now. That way, you don't have to deal with her 'move' - whoever is then in her life will.


Luckily, we're talking 11 days, not 2 months. I appreciate comments like these, not because I would take the advice, but because I need to make myself think like this a lot more.


----------



## iheartlife

Are you going to be able to keep the house, do you think?


----------



## keko

Are you keeping the VAR on yourself, at all times? Considering her departure date is nearing I would highly expect her to make a false domestic violence claim.


Have a look at bigtimemess's thread.


----------



## wrsteele1

UPDATE: she lured me into an e-mail battle yesterday by accusing me of lying to her about my supposed private conversations with our kids (supposedly trying to turn them against her). I got suckered and took the bait. Didn't say anything inappropriate but definitely came across as having a rough edge. Today, she sent those e-mails to her lawyer, her lawyer sent an e-mail to my lawyer, and I get a "what's going on Wes" call from my lawyer. Reread my e-mails, and fortunately I wasn't too out of line. Not going there again (with the e-mail). All her correspondence with me is e-mail or text, she does not actually TALK to me at all. Not that I really care. But she is such a b!tch!


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Are you going to be able to keep the house, do you think?


I hope so. I will keep it if I can afford it. I can afford it by keeping it on an interest only loan (effectively renting my own house from the bank) but not on a 30 year mortgage. Her name is on the mortgage, so she should ask I refinance it, but she hasn't thought of it yet.


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## wrsteele1

keko said:


> Are you keeping the VAR on yourself, at all times? Considering her departure date is nearing I would highly expect her to make a false domestic violence claim.
> 
> 
> Have a look at bigtimemess's thread.


Thanks Keko. I'll strongly consider this advice. I don't think she would do that, but then we've been down the "she wouldn't do that to me" road before now haven't we.


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## jh52

WR -- You have to get smarter than sinking to her level. She will do and try anything to get you to respond like you did in the email thread. STOP responding to this crap from her.

As July 8th gets closer -- she will get more desparate.

This is not easy -- and it will not get any easier -- but you have to step up and show your kids that you are a good man and a great father.

Since all her communication is text or email -- one or two word answers would be the best !!

Good luck !!


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## Will_Kane

_She is a team player, but also has given me kids over 50/50 so far. But custody agreement will be 50/50. She does stuff with them but is *always texting or talking to OM when she has them.*_

This is typical for many cheaters. I never did understand the need to for continuous contact. It is symptomatic of a very powerful addiction. They can't go an hour without getting a fix.


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## Will_Kane

_UPDATE: she lured me into an e-mail battle yesterday by *accusing me of lying to her about my supposed private conversations with our kids *(supposedly trying to turn them against her). I got suckered and took the bait. Didn't say anything inappropriate but definitely came across as having a rough edge. Today, she sent those e-mails to her lawyer, her lawyer sent an e-mail to my lawyer, and I get a "what's going on Wes" call from my lawyer. Reread my e-mails, and fortunately I wasn't too out of line. Not going there again (with the e-mail). All her correspondence with me is e-mail or text, she does not actually TALK to me at all. Not that I really care. But she is such a b!tch!_

It appears she wants to document all your contact so she can use it against you later.

She's mad that you get to be the victim; she wants to be the victim, but it's too late because you exposed early and now no one who matters to her can be fooled (except maybe the judge).

She may have been coached by her lawyer or the other man on how to let you think she is being amicable while secretly planning on how to make you slip up so she can get a better deal. Be ready for anything. Carrying a VAR around with you is probably a good idea. She is not the wife you knew before, even though you may catch a glimpse now and then. She is like a drug addict. She might be able to put on an act or be nice to your face, but all it's really about for her at this point in time is the other man. She is addicted to him.

Besides you allegedly turning the kids against her, what else is she mad at you about at this point?


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## Chaparral

Will_Kane said:


> _UPDATE: she lured me into an e-mail battle yesterday by *accusing me of lying to her about my supposed private conversations with our kids *(supposedly trying to turn them against her). I got suckered and took the bait. Didn't say anything inappropriate but definitely came across as having a rough edge. Today, she sent those e-mails to her lawyer, her lawyer sent an e-mail to my lawyer, and I get a "what's going on Wes" call from my lawyer. Reread my e-mails, and fortunately I wasn't too out of line. Not going there again (with the e-mail). All her correspondence with me is e-mail or text, she does not actually TALK to me at all. Not that I really care. But she is such a b!tch!_
> 
> It appears she wants to document all your contact so she can use it against you later.
> 
> She's mad that you get to be the victim; she wants to be the victim, but it's too late because you exposed early and now no one who matters to her can be fooled (except maybe the judge).
> 
> She may have been coached by her lawyer or the other man on how to let you think she is being amicable while secretly planning on how to make you slip up so she can get a better deal. Be ready for anything. Carrying a VAR around with you is probably a good idea. She is not the wife you knew before, even though you may catch a glimpse now and then. She is like a drug addict. She might be able to put on an act or be nice to your face, but all it's really about for her at this point in time is the other man. She is addicted to him.
> 
> Besides you allegedly turning the kids against her, what else is she mad at you about at this point?


And the OM has to have a certain amount of fear in what you may do/reveal.


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## iheartlife

I wouldn't put it past her, now that she tried this email escapade, to get her OWN VAR and to bait you in a live conversation. She is playing a bit of hardball here. Time to be five steps ahead of her.


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## Acabado

The good thing about this she played her card too soon. She's not that bright. Those emails amount nothing. But you now know she more than willing to f!ck you every way she can.


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## happyman64

WR,

Of course you will never be the same after this situation.

The key is to come out better! 

All the crap she has pulled is not your fault. 

She is toxic through her own choices. ANd I know this still hurts you but you have no control over her actions. And WR, she is out of control.

Take care of you and your kids. THat is what you can control.

Life will get better. And one day she will wake up. And that is the day you really need to be on top of your "A" game.

Keep moving forward. Get her out of your personal space. You will be better off and I honestly think so will your family. She is no good to anyone with her behavior.

HM64


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## Chaparral

This is her way of making you the bad guy and making her feel good about what she is doing. Don't help her out.


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## turnera

wrsteele1 said:


> UPDATE: she lured me into an e-mail battle yesterday by accusing me of lying to her about my supposed private conversations with our kids (supposedly trying to turn them against her). I got suckered and took the bait. Didn't say anything inappropriate but definitely came across as having a rough edge. Today, she sent those e-mails to her lawyer, her lawyer sent an e-mail to my lawyer, and I get a "what's going on Wes" call from my lawyer. Reread my e-mails, and fortunately I wasn't too out of line. Not going there again (with the e-mail). All her correspondence with me is e-mail or text, she does not actually TALK to me at all. Not that I really care. But she is such a b!tch!


Well, now you know.


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## lordmayhem

Live and learn from your mistake. I know it's difficult, but don't respond to her provocations, as you know now that she will use everything against you that she can. She's making this ugly and playing dirty.


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## wrsteele1

Talked to her for about an hour tonight. First time talked to her in a week or longer. She went from straight aggressive over last month to borderline cordial tonight. Got almost all personal property settled. She said she was tiring of fighting over it and ended up giving me most everything I asked. She also volunteered to give me kids Friday so I could see them some this weekend before she goes out of town for the weekend for family reunion. Who knew she could turn the niceness back on, lol. I know not to trust her still, but going to bed which means one more day closer to moving day. PS: I asked her and confirmed Doc hasn't left his wife yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Forget about her, the doc and his wife, you need to focus 100% of your attention to getting the most out of this divorce with the least amount of damage.

Considering she's is trying to trick you into a bad spot with emails/texts, you need to stop responding to her unless its about the kids. If she wants to talk to you just keep the recorder on and nod your head.


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> _UPDATE: she lured me into an e-mail battle yesterday by *accusing me of lying to her about my supposed private conversations with our kids *(supposedly trying to turn them against her). I got suckered and took the bait. Didn't say anything inappropriate but definitely came across as having a rough edge. Today, she sent those e-mails to her lawyer, her lawyer sent an e-mail to my lawyer, and I get a "what's going on Wes" call from my lawyer. Reread my e-mails, and fortunately I wasn't too out of line. Not going there again (with the e-mail). All her correspondence with me is e-mail or text, she does not actually TALK to me at all. Not that I really care. But she is such a b!tch!_
> 
> It appears she wants to document all your contact so she can use it against you later.
> 
> She's mad that you get to be the victim; she wants to be the victim, but it's too late because you exposed early and now no one who matters to her can be fooled (except maybe the judge).
> 
> She may have been coached by her lawyer or the other man on how to let you think she is being amicable while secretly planning on how to make you slip up so she can get a better deal. Be ready for anything. Carrying a VAR around with you is probably a good idea. She is not the wife you knew before, even though you may catch a glimpse now and then. She is like a drug addict. She might be able to put on an act or be nice to your face, but all it's really about for her at this point in time is the other man. She is addicted to him.
> 
> Besides you allegedly turning the kids against her, what else is she mad at you about at this point?


Good question. Over past couple weeks I have confronted her family, blown up at her work, and sent her an email telling her amongst other things that her soul was in danger of being [email protected] to hell. So that could be most of it. But she also claims to be hurting because she never thought she'd be going thru this. And I got to think doc not leaving his wife yet has to be a stressor as well. Maybe I'm even getting some of the blame for that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Take an opinion on burning the doctor and your wife. She will get another job fast enough since she is a nurse.


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## the guy

I kind a wished you saw her in person, I wonder how big those bags under her eyes are getting. LOL

@warlock, I think OP should leave work alone. R is out of the question, beside why would he want to kiss that mouth after what OP heard.

Stay on course! 

Remember it takes fire to make steel and your STBXW just forged you.


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## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> Take an opinion on burning the doctor and your wife. She will get another job fast enough since she is a nurse.


If she takes a $10k pay cut it would cost me thousands per year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> If she takes a $10k pay cut it would cost me thousands per year.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's a gamble. Realize warlock is only suggesting it because of potential R. Once you are committed and sure about D, your financial analysis and getting what you want out of the divorce comes into focus.

When you asked if the doc has left his wife, how did she respond? What was her body language, voice inflection?

Really, how can she be choosing this sack of sh** of a guy over a texting / backseat / broom closet "romance" with someone who won't even come help move her stuff. They say people trade down when it comes to affair partners--she is no different, his salary and position mean NOTHING when you look at how he treats her.


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## warlock07

Some women are content even if they remain mistress to the OM. His position of power sure was attractive to his wife. 

OP, are you sure about that? Did you get professional advice regarding that? Get a 2nd opinion if you can. Burning her temporarily might be worth it in the long term(Separating your wife from OM, OM resenting your wife, wife coming out of fog(good for the kids if she is in decent, healthy relationships. Also they can poison the kids against you.) even if you aren't reconciling)


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## Acabado

> Some women are content even if they remain mistress to the OM. His position of power sure was attractive to his wife.


 It seems the choice WW toke, to be the permanent mistress. It's not rare. It doesn't mean they renounce to finnaly break up MOM's marriage but deep within they accept the crumbs and rationalize the status quo. Being an OW is a full time profession, search the OW's websites.


ETA
It's unlikely MOM will get a D (unless he's forced by her BW), he's a cake eater. Reputation, money, custody... To much to lose.


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## iheartlife

I guess I always pictured permanent mistresses as consorts, i.e., "kept" men and women. Also, I could see this coming from someone who was never married or who was currently unattached (willing to take crumbs from the table). I just don't get it in this situation. She must really hate herself that she is putting up with this slimeball.

Can you imagine her wanting a guy like this for her daughters?? I would think it would make her vomit.


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## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> It's a gamble. Realize warlock is only suggesting it because of potential R. Once you are committed and sure about D, your financial analysis and getting what you want out of the divorce comes into focus.
> 
> When you asked if the doc has left his wife, how did she respond? What was her body language, voice inflection?
> 
> Really, how can she be choosing this sack of sh** of a guy over a texting / backseat / broom closet "romance" with someone who won't even come help move her stuff. They say people trade down when it comes to affair partners--she is no different, his salary and position mean NOTHING when you look at how he treats her.


The body language said "i don't know if or when he will leave his wife"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

She is in a fantasy that she is trying to hold together now and has big cracks.

Here is a list of infidelity statistcs, print them off and leave them or show them to your wife, especially the ones that show what her chances of marrying Dr. Feelgood are, how likely he is to divorce his wife etc.

22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives. 
14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives. 
Younger people are more likely candidates; in fact, younger women are as likely as younger men to be unfaithful. 
70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity. 
5 percent of married men and 3 percent of married women reported having sex with someone other than their spouse in the year1997. 
22 percent of men and 14 percent of women admitted to having sexual relations outside their marriage sometime in their past. 
90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong. 
50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man,'' according to a Time-CNN poll. 
61 percent of Americans thought adultery should not be a crime in the United states; 35 percent thought it should; 4 percent had no opinion. 
17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity. 
Source: Associated Press 
Up to 37% of men and 22% of women admit to having affairs. Researchers think the vast majority of the millions of people who visit chat rooms, have multiple "special friends”. Dr. Bob Lanier, askbob.com 
Recent studies reveal that 45-55% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their relationship (Atwood & Schwartz, 2002 - Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy) 
Only 46% of men believe that online affairs are adultery. DivorceMag 
80% think it's Ok to talk with a stranger identified as the opposite sex. 75% thinks it's ok to visit an adult site. 
About 60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an affair at some point in some marriage "Monogamy Myth", Therapist Peggy Vaugn 
About 24 percent of men and 14 percent of women have had sex outside their marriages, according to a Dec. 21, 1998 report in USA Today on a national study by the University of California, San Francisco. 
Affairs affect one of every 2.7 couples, according to counselor Janis Abrahms Spring, author of After the Affair,as reported by the Washington Post on March 30, 1999. Ten percent of extramarital affairs last one day, 10 percent last more than one day but less than a month, 50 percent last more than a month but less than a year, but 40 percent last two or more years. Few extramarital affairs last more than four years. 
A lesser known fact is that those who divorce rarely marry the person with whom they are having the affair. For example, Dr. Jan Halper’s study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers. 
Frank Pittman has found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75 percent. The reasons for the high divorce rate include: intervention of reality, guilt, expectations, a general distrust of marriage, and a distrust of the affairee. 
One-third of divorce litigation is caused by online affairs. This Is An Internet E-Mergency, The Fortino Group 
Approximately 70% of time on-line is spent in chat rooms or sending e-mail; of these interactions, the vast majority are romantic in nature. Dr. Michael Adamse, PhD., co-author of Affairs of the Net: The Cybershrinks' Guide to Online Relationships 
Because of the anonymity, affordability, and accessibility of Internet sexual resources, the computer can accelerate the transition from "at risk" to "addicted," as well as the progression of sex addiction in those with a history of prior sexual compulsivity. Cooper et al Survey 
8-10 percent of Internet users become hooked on cybersex. Dr. Bob Lanier, askbob.com 
Spouses who get hooked on Internet porn are a growing complaint among spouses filing for divorce, according to a survey of 350 divorce attorneys. "If there's dissatisfaction in the existing relationship, the Internet is an easy way for people to scratch the itch," said lawyer J. Lindsey Short, Jr., president of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, which conducted the study. 
57% of people have used the Internet to flirt. 
38% of people have engaged in explicit online sexual conversation and 50% of people have made phone contact with someone they chatted with online. 
Evidence proves there is a high correlation between on-line infidelity and subsequent real-time sexual affairs. 
Evidence supports the existence of disinhibition, accelerated intimacy, and hyper-sexual online behavior that can easily lead to real-time infidelity 
31% of people have had an online conversation that has led to real-time sex. 
It is estimated that 53% of all people will have one or more affairs during their lifetime. 
Look at the numbers from Playboy Magazine: 
-2 out of 3 women and 3 out of 4 men admit they have sexual thoughts about co-workers. 
-86% of men and 81% of women admit they routinely flirt with the opposite sex. 
-75% of men and 65% of women admit to having sex with people they work with. 
The fact is that human beings are NOT monogamous by nature. That means they cheat. 
Experts say that a gut instinct is the most powerful indicator of a cheating lover. Adultery statistics state that 85% of woman who feel their lover is cheating are correct. 50% of men who feel their lover is cheating are right. The first clue is seldom obvious. Typically, it's a "feeling" that something is different. 
Cheating spouse statistics confirm that 50 and 70 percent of married men (between 38 and 53 million men) have cheated or will cheat on their wives. One study found that 2/3 of the wives (26 to 36 million women) whose husbands were cheating had no idea their husbands were having an affair - largely because they failed to recognize the telltale signs. 
According to Annette Lawson, author of Adultery, published in 1989 by Basic Books. "The various researchers arrive at a general consensus…suggesting that above one-quarter to about one-half of married women have at least one lover after they are married in any given marriage. Married men probably still stray more often than married women—perhaps from 50 percent to 65 percent by the age of forty." According to Maggie Scarf, author of Intimate Partners, first published in 1987 by Random House, re-issued in 1996 by Ballentine. 
"Most experts do consider the 'educated guess' that at the present time some 50 to 65 percent of husbands and 45 to 55 percent of wives become extramaritally involved by the age of 40 to be a relatively sound and reasonable one." According to Peggy Vaughan, author of The Monogamy Myth, first published in 1989 by Newmarket Press (third edition published 2003). 
Conservative infidelity statistics estimate that “60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an extramarital affair. These figures are even more significant when we consider the total number of marriages involved, since it's unlikely that all the men and women having affairs happen to be married to each other. If even half of the women having affairs (or 20 percent) are married to men not included in the 60 percent having affairs, then at least one partner will have an affair in approximately 80 percent of all marriages. With this many marriages affected, it's unreasonable to think affairs are due only to the failures and shortcomings of individual husbands or wives." 
Note that the above adultry statistics of the prevalence of affairs were made more than a decade ago; so based on changes in society during the intervening years, the current percentage of the population who have had affairs is probably somewhat HIGHER. For instance, the continuing increase of women in the workplace and the increase of women having affairs on the Internet means that the numbers for women having affairs is probably similar to those for men—about 60%.


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## Almostrecovered

53% of TAM readers skipped over that wall of text


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## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> 53% of TAM readers skipped over that wall of text


Just pick out what you like. It didn't look that big.


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## Affaircare

I think that number was more like 83% AR.


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## wrsteele1

2 days from her move out day. Been looking forward to this a long time. Have looked at it with excitement and tried to make it come faster. But now that its here, it sucks. At least for now. A symbolic end to 11 years. Having a lot of "feelings." For example: "how could she still not know what she's thrown away." And "how could she still not have fully repented." And "how is she not begging me to take her back."

I'm going to miss her, but not the her she is now, rather the her she was the past 11 years. 

I just want to grab her and shake her and say "WTF are you doing, don't you realize what you've done?"

I've had lots of fun the past few weeks, and I'm OK. But I also have a total lack of interest in other people. There is actually someone beating down my door trying to get into a relationship with me and I just have zero intererst. 

Definitely a tough period of time for me here.

Obviously I'm keeping with the 180. Any advice for me other than that? And what about dealing with her? All business still?

The way she's treating me doesn't say "I've moved on." Rather it says "you're a piece of dogsh!t and I'm a lieing coldhearted b!tch."


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## happyman64

Wrsteele,



> The way she's treating me doesn't say "I've moved on." Rather it says "you're a piece of dogsh!t and I'm a lieing coldhearted b!tch."


I understand you are mourning the loss of your marriage but your wife's body has been inhabited by an alien.

An alien that:

lies to you.
cheats on you.
that has sex with om and not you.
that gives bj's outside in cars to OM and not you.
treats you like crap.
and acts like a cold hearted *****.

So again I understand why you are mourning but your wife that you loved for those years is dead. And in 2 days you can bury her.

You did everything you could to get her out of the A and away from married posom.

Feel good that you gave your 120% percent to save your marriage and preserve your family while your wife continued to lie and cheat.

She does not deserve you!!!! And you better never forget it. Not ever......

So hug your family but kiss her butt goodbye. And she does not even deserve that kiss from you.

Read the first 10-15 pages of your thread and you will know you tried and she did not.

Let us know how you make out.

HM64


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## happyman64

And WR with the way she has been treating you and the divorce she really needs to go.

She needs to go be another mans piece of meat so she can get sucked up, spit out and treated like dog crap.

She needs to be treated just the way she has treated you.

And it will happen. And she will learn this lesson.

It does not mean she will be a good christian or person again.

And it certainly does not mean she will be your wife again.

But she definitely needs to learn this lesson.

Sadly at your families expense. But isn't that what selfish people do. They earn at our expense.

Keep your chin up.

Hm64


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## iheartlife

Thanks for the update. 

She might never come back from the low to which she has sunk. But the truth is, she hasn't sunk low enough to feel any repercussions for what she's done.

If she is leaving a loving family for this POS, it speaks volumes to HER lack of self-respect. What was exciting as fun on the side will get quite old when this man continues to stay with his wife and use her. 

It is also time for you to look in the mirror and ask what you could ever do to deserve this. The answer: nothing. So then you must start to accept that maybe she has fundamentally changed. Or else you never really knew the real her. Either way, you deserve to be loved and cherished, and somewhere there is a woman who will give this back to you as strongly as you give it to her. You don't need to act on this for a long time, give yourself permission to mourn. But you do deserve so much better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli

wrsteele1 said:


> The way she's treating me doesn't say "I've moved on." Rather it says "you're a piece of dogsh!t and I'm a lieing coldhearted b!tch."


That's the way it's got to be. First they beta-ize you to semi-detach enough to permit the affair, but once exposed they have to demonize you to keep the affair going and to justify the divorce. At that point, it's about reducing the "toxic shame" so they can live with themselves after the decision is made to not back down.


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## wrsteele1

Machiavelli said:


> That's the way it's got to be. First they beta-ize you to semi-detach enough to permit the affair, but once exposed they have to demonize you to keep the affair going and to justify the divorce. At that point, it's about reducing the "toxic shame" so they can live with themselves after the decision is made to not back down.


Exactly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

Do you remember your first post?


> My wife has told the therapist our relationship was strong before the affair and that it started as...


I can garantee you that in last two months she has completely rewritten the story and demonized you. Surely she was already unhappy the last two years, wait not, the last SIX years!... actually she never loved you and you guys never should got married to begin with, you got married for the wrong reasons, likely her parents fault. Also you has changed so much it's no wonder she was forced to blow her married boss in parking lots, which is obviously the man she was meant to be with. All her friends know he's her soulmate already.

Hang tough man. Two more days and she will be gone. Then you can go completely dark and fully detach without her presence as a constant reminder. If necessary you can use email, texts. If she goes "b!tch" on the phone you just hung. You are going to be OK.


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## Chaparral

My guess is that your wife has always been damaged. It happens a lot that people overlook the sings. I would bet she has aleays been on the lookout for what she has found, a rich doctor. The doctor has also found what he was looking for, a temporary bit of fun.

From what we have heard, my wifes knee doctor , married several times and currently divorced, is an aging player. Teaching and the medical field is rife with this, just wish we could figure out why.


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## Will_Kane

*"how could she still not know what she's thrown away." And "how could she still not have fully repented." And "how is she not begging me to take her back."*

I think she will come around to this after she moves out. It might take a month or two after she's out. The affair lasted many months and apparently your wife was in deeper than you realized at the start.

She has dragged her feet on moving out. She did not want to move out. I would not be surprised if something happens at the last minute that further delays her moving out. I think she will be looking for any excuse to stay. 

Part of her anger is at you for making her move out. She would have been perfectly happy to cake eat, live with you in the security of the marital home, presenting the picture of a happily married family to the world, while continuing to carry on her affair. That is what she wanted. You are not allowing her to have that. So, she is angry at you. She has not really behaved like a mature adult since you confronted her about the affair. She has been acting very childish.

*I just want to grab her and shake her and say "WTF are you doing, don't you realize what you've done?"*

If you want to ask her this to see what her response is, go ahead. I don't recommend getting into any long, heated arguments about it. I would guess that her response would be that YOU are the one FORCING her to leave, she would have been happy to stay and continue her affair, but YOU didn't want that. I have seen this enough times, but it still amazes me how distorted and selfish the cheater's thought process becomes.

*The way she's treating me doesn't say "I've moved on." Rather it says "you're a piece of dogsh!t and I'm a lieing coldhearted b!tch." *

Machiavelli is correct. Not all cheaters choose this path, but your wife, at least for now, apparently has: _"once exposed they have to demonize you to keep the affair going and to justify the divorce. At that point, it's about reducing the "toxic shame" so they can live with themselves after the decision is made to not back down."_

Your wife is an adult mature married woman with children who was, and maybe still is, furtively giving blowjobs to a married man in her car in the parking lot. He is a high earner, but he doesn't even take her to a hotel. He uses her as a sex toy at his convenience. Put yourself in her shoes. She can't be too happy with herself with how far she has fallen. Most of her anger is directed at herself. If she was truly happy with her choices, she would be happily moving on and moving out and not spewing venom at you any longer. The opposite of love is not anger, it's indifference.


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## wrsteele1

Well wife has been out since Saturday. It has been a rollercoaster to say the least since then. Saturday her family moved her and they were all in tears as I was leaving the house to let her move. I went out Saturday night and let my parents watch the girls while I dealt with a tough day in my life. Though I went home by myself, I did realize while out that meeting girls isn't going to be as hard as I thought. I'm happy about that. It seemed easier at 29 than it did at 18 last time I dated. To be clear I'm not dating anytime soon.

Wife's sister and dad told me they are getting mixed signals from wife and made me promise not to sign papers until I was sure that's what I wanted. Wife not sending ME any mixed signals though. Last I saw her she was still texting OM every minute and spewing hate my direction.

I've now had the girls since last Friday and will through tomorrow afternoon. I did let my kids talk to my wife on the phone. I did not talk to her at all but listened on speakerphone. My 5 year old seems to be doing OK but my 3 year old twice told wife that "I am mad at you because you are not coming home." This actually amazed me, I didn't think she really understood what was going on. I could tell these conversations with the kids are really tough on wife.

My dad told me that my mom called mother-in-law to say goodbye (I was aware she might and told her she could do whatever she wanted). This was a mistake for me to let this happen for now, set off a new wave of emotion I could have done without. When I confronted her family I only knew it was EA not PA and her family has been led to believe was EA only and that she has been unhappy for years. 

This misperception set off a wave of anger that was followed by a sudden onset of a debilitating acute but short (one hour) depression. To top it all off, a big customer looks ready to not renew my contract at work and I've got some job stress in there too. Her work as a nurse was stable and reliable and always helped iron out the ups and downs of my volatile work.

I'm kind of a mess today.


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## turnera

Her parents don't know it's a PA?


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## OldWolf57

hang in there man. ask that customer what it will take o secure the contract, maybe a 5 to 10% reductions of your fee will work, but only if it allow you to stay in the black.


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## wrsteele1

OldWolf57 said:


> hang in there man. ask that customer what it will take o secure the contract, maybe a 5 to 10% reductions of your fee will work, but only if it allow you to stay in the black.


Thanks for this. Unfortunately a 12 year customer hired a new HR manager who I think intends to bring in "her person." Hypothetically, it should make it easier to swallow when its not a referendum on your work, but losing customers is NEVER fun.


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## wrsteele1

turnera said:


> Her parents don't know it's a PA?


I found out it was PA not EA 2 days after I exposed to her family. Then I decided I didn't want to R and so I lost motivation to expose to her family. 

I figured they might kind of know though. I told her family I was leaving on a "date certain" that only I knew if she didn't quit her job by then. I told only 1 person the date, which was August 10, and the 1 person I told was wife's dad. Figured that would be compassionate to tell him b/c I'm tight with him and I didn't want him worrying every day if today was the day. However, given that I left wife 2 days after talking to him (late May/early June-ish), I just figured they knew something really bad happened. I guess I was wrong. I don't think they know it's PA.


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## turnera

Tell them. At least maybe there's a tiny sliver of a chance that they might give her a kick in the rear and maybe help her out.


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## warlock07

I think you should let them know that it was a physical affair with her married boss


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## happyman64

WR,

It will get better and I agree with the crew.

Tell her parents that she was doing the OM and that is why you needed to leave the marriage.

Keep it together. You are doing great which is the best you can do when dealing with this kind of mess.

Keep an eye on the kids too since Mommy has her head up her A*S or in her phone.

HM64


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## Acabado

> Wife's sister and dad told me they are getting mixed signals from wife and made me promise not to sign papers until I was sure that's what I wanted.


Man, you missed an great oportunity here. You could tell her she's not sending mixed signals, this is a ongoing full blown EA-PA, she won't stop, she never stopped despite the fake MC, she's not only breaking her marriage but OM's, she's degrading and making a fool of herself blowin this douchebaag at parking lots and trying her best to wreck another marriage. You lost any inch of respect for her as a woman. She's not who she portrays herslef to be. She changed.
Tell her you don't want to be informed of anything outside childrens matter. You are moving on into someone deserving of you. Tell her you pity her sister.
If SIL or another member of her family contacts you you just tell them the above. You are sad about this but she's digging her grave without no remorse at all.


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## happyman64

Acabado said:


> Man, you missed an great oportunity here. You could tell her she's not sending mixed signals, this is a ongoing full blown EA-PA, she won't stop, she never stopped despite the fake MC, she's not only breaking her marriage but OM's, she's degrading and making a fool of herself blowin this douchebaag at parking lots and trying her best to wreck another marriage. You lost any inch of respect for her as a woman. She's not who she portrays herslef to be. She changed.
> Tell her you don't want to be informed of anything outside childrens matter. You are moving on into someone deserving of you. Tell her you pity her sister.
> If SIL or another member of her family contacts you you just tell them the above. You are sad about this but she's digging her grave without no remorse at all.


Actually Abocado I think WR could have gone there with his wife's family and played the recording for them.

I just think he is done with his evil wife.

Stay strong WR.


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## iheartlife

Tell them. Don't play the VAR.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Acabado said:


> Man, you missed an great oportunity here. You could tell her she's not sending mixed signals, this is a ongoing full blown EA-PA, she won't stop, she never stopped despite the fake MC, she's not only breaking her marriage but OM's, she's degrading and making a fool of herself blowin this douchebaag at parking lots and trying her best to wreck another marriage. You lost any inch of respect for her as a woman. She's not who she portrays herslef to be. She changed.
> Tell her you don't want to be informed of anything outside childrens matter. You are moving on into someone deserving of you. Tell her you pity her sister.
> If SIL or another member of her family contacts you you just tell them the above. You are sad about this but she's digging her grave without no remorse at all.


 I agree.


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## wrsteele1

Acabado said:


> Man, you missed an great oportunity here. You could tell her she's not sending mixed signals, this is a ongoing full blown EA-PA, she won't stop, she never stopped despite the fake MC, she's not only breaking her marriage but OM's, she's degrading and making a fool of herself blowin this douchebaag at parking lots and trying her best to wreck another marriage. You lost any inch of respect for her as a woman. She's not who she portrays herslef to be. She changed.
> Tell her you don't want to be informed of anything outside childrens matter. You are moving on into someone deserving of you. Tell her you pity her sister.
> If SIL or another member of her family contacts you you just tell them the above. You are sad about this but she's digging her grave without no remorse at all.


I didn't come across quite this strong. But what I did say was that I was tired of being cheated on, lied to, and treated like dogsh!t. That the door to R was 99% closed because I don't believe WS capable of significant effort towards R, and that I felt bad for the kids but that she underestimated me and that I was fine before her and will be fine after her.


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## turnera

You told her sister that?


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## wrsteele1

Her family is under the impression "she has been unhappy for years." I have a ILYBNILWY letter from her May 7 that says in her own words that she has been unhappy the "last couple months." Re-reading the letter now you can see the undertones of "I love someone else" all throughout the thing. HMMMM I wonder how she became unhappy. Was it really that I didn't do enough dishes? Or could it be that it was because she was having s.e.x with someone else.

Bottom line though, why do I care to fight the battles to pit her family against her? They already don't approve of her behavior. I'm 99% sure I don't intend to take her back. And on the 1% chance I did decide to take her back ..... it would be because of a Herculean effort on her part. And to tell the truth, if she succeeded I would be disapointed in myself for taking her back because now I see that I deserve better. I would feel castrated, embarrassed to tell my friends, and like I let myself down (no self-respect). I'm 99% sure I'm not taking her back.

So given all that, why not just stick with the 180 and not use her family as a weapon?


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## wrsteele1

turnera said:


> You told her sister that?


Yes. Almost word for word.


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## warlock07

> So given all that, why not just stick with the 180 and not use her family as a weapon?


Your wife as a mistress to a married man is not good for the kids when growing up. That is only reason I can see.


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## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Your wife as a mistress to a married man is not good for the kids when growing up. That is only reason I can see.


If it comes up this is the word you need to get out. Just tell anyone who asks that she's the mistress of a rich, married doctor now.


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## turnera

And that you don't want you kids being taught by her that adultery is acceptable behavior.


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## Will_Kane

Your in-laws are going to be part of your life forever. They are forever tied to your children, when your kids have kids, they will still be there.

It will make a huge difference in how they perceive you:

1-Call her dad and tell him you want to set the record straight, that you thought they knew the truth, but you now realize that they probably don't.

2-Tell her dad that your wife wrote you a letter stating she's been happy for a couple months, the same thing she's been saying to you and the marriage counselor. Offer to show him the letter.

3-Tell her dad that she has been having a physical affair with a married man for quite a while now and that you have proof. If he asks what the proof is, tell him you will not reveal it to spare his feelings but that the proof is indispuatable.

4-Tell her dad that, as far as you are concerned, the problems in your marriage began at the exact same time that your wife began her affair and that, before that, you were unaware of any problems, that your wife never told you there were any problems before that.

Trust me that this will make a huge difference in how you are treated by them going forward.

I know that it seems like it doesn't matter to you now, but *you probably will have to deal with these people for another 40-50 years or longer and it will make a great difference in the long run in how you are treated, how your future wife and any other kids you have are treated by them*. There's no reason for you to put up with worse treatment because you are covering for your wife.

In effect, you are covering up for your wife by not telling them the truth.

As it stands now, even though they are not happy with your wife's actions, your wife is looking better than she deserves to in their eyes at your expense, and you are looking worse than you deserve to in their eyes.

One 15-minute phone call will set that right.


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## iheartlife

Please listen to Will Kane's sage advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> Your in-laws are going to be part of your life forever. They are forever tied to your children, when your kids have kids, they will still be there.
> 
> It will make a huge difference in how they perceive you:
> 
> 1-Call her dad and tell him you want to set the record straight, that you thought they knew the truth, but you now realize that they probably don't.
> 
> 2-Tell her dad that your wife wrote you a letter stating she's been happy for a couple months, the same thing she's been saying to you and the marriage counselor. Offer to show him the letter.
> 
> 3-Tell her dad that she has been having a physical affair with a married man for quite a while now and that you have proof. If he asks what the proof is, tell him you will not reveal it to spare his feelings but that the proof is indispuatable.
> 
> 4-Tell her dad that, as far as you are concerned, the problems in your marriage began at the exact same time that your wife began her affair and that, before that, you were unaware of any problems, that your wife never told you there were any problems before that.
> 
> Trust me that this will make a huge difference in how you are treated by them going forward.
> 
> I know that it seems like it doesn't matter to you now, but *you probably will have to deal with these people for another 40-50 years or longer and it will make a great difference in the long run in how you are treated, how your future wife and any other kids you have are treated by them*. There's no reason for you to put up with worse treatment because you are covering for your wife.
> 
> In effect, you are covering up for your wife by not telling them the truth.
> 
> As it stands now, even though they are not happy with your wife's actions, your wife is looking better than she deserves to in their eyes at your expense, and you are looking worse than you deserve to in their eyes.
> 
> One 15-minute phone call will set that right.


I really don't want to do this, but you've been so wise to this point so I feel I would be a fool not to accept this advice. But I can't tell him that over the phone. I can make an excuse to see him first weekend of August. I will do it then. Not only will it be difficult, but it also goes against my instincts, which is to protect her family, and especially her dad, from more hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> I really don't want to do this, but you've been so wise to this point so I feel I would be a fool not to accept this advice. But I can't tell him that over the phone. I can make an excuse to see him first weekend of August. I will do it then. Not only will it be difficult, but it also goes against my instincts, which is to protect her family, and especially her dad, from more hurt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a sad situation to be in but you did not bring this down on your wifes family, she did. She is compounding it by lying about you. Her lies hurt her family more than if she had trully just fell out of love and divorced. Its not possible to help her sleep in the bed she has made. By letting her off the hook you would be her co-conspirator.


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## Acabado

That's why I told you you missed the oportunity with her sister. It wasm't even against the 180. She's fooling also her family and demonizing you. As Will_Kane wrote they will be part of your family forever. If you put her sister in the know you are defending your reputation. I can garantee you she will keep demonizing you.

Also, killing this affair will pay no matter the outcome of your marriage. To be honest the last man on earth I wanted to help my wife tuck my children was OM. If I decided on divorce on my DDay, i'd prefer another man, a new legit BF, involved with my children than original cheater of POSOM.


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## Will_Kane

I put myself in everyone's shoes to see it from their point of view. If I were her father, I would want to know the truth about my own daughter, even if it was painful. Same thing if I were her mother, sister, brother-in-law, etc.

You will have to preface your telling him with, "I'm not doing this to hurt you or be vindictive but I tried putting myself in your shoes and I thought if I were you I would want to know the truth, even if it is not pleasant."

*No one will be upset with you if they can see you are being honest and sincere and are not doing it to be hurtful.*

*The only one who does not want the truth to be known is your wife.*

*It may seem easier to sweep this under the rug and move on, but you will be tripping over that bump in the rug for a long time to come.*

You may feel that her family are sympathetic enough to you now with just the EA on her, but believe me, their sympathy for you will wear off, especially as time goes by and your wife realizes you are not telling them what really happened. Your wife will feel freer to make up stuff about how horrible you were to live with, how controlling, and she will exaggerate your every fault. They are her parents, she knows how to manipulate them. Any good feelings they have for you will wear off.

Also, older people are less likely to understand EAs and texting. It often is more black and white to them, either she cheated or she didn't, what do you mean she talked on the phone to him a lot, so what?

They are much more likely to understand the seriousness of what she's done if it's a physical affair. 

As a parent yourself, wouldn't you want to know the truth of what was going on with your daughter?


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## Acabado

Her "2 months unhappy" letter (The time she was already cheating) is a wonderful weapon against her lies. You can even be "understanding" about her need to justify herself, you can tell is very typical as you sadly had to educate yourself about infidelity the last months. Don't appear vindivative, just putting the story straight.

The demonizing won't stop. She may even blame you for the whole divorce, specially becuase:


> Wife's sister and dad told me they are getting mixed signals from wife and *made me promise not to sign papers* until I was sure that's what I wanted.


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## iheartlife

I agree with Acabado about her letter. I also agree with Will_Kane about her dad. This man is using your wife in the worst way. (One thing I wondered, how much older is he than your wife?) but anyhow, he is such scum and you surely don't want him around your girls. Let your inlaws know the nature of the relationship, surely this can gain some help from them toward shielding your kids from this awful person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> I agree with Acabado about her letter. I also agree with Will_Kane about her dad. This man is using your wife in the worst way. (One thing I wondered, how much older is he than your wife?) but anyhow, he is such scum and you surely don't want him around your girls. Let your inlaws know the nature of the relationship, surely this can gain some help from them toward shielding your kids from this awful person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just 3 years older


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## turnera

If my daughter were doing what she's doing, I would be FURIOUS at her husband for NOT telling me!


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## wrsteele1

Not much new to report. I went dark on her and vice versa. She texts me every now and then about kids stuff. I'm kind of a rollercoaster. At least once a week I go out with friends and have a blast. In between I'm lonely. My mind often wonders to WW. I wonder if I'm building attraction back thru the 180, whether she has regrets, whether OM and OW are still together, whether WW is still mistressing, whether I could bed WW if I wanted. I know most of this doesn't really matter since my plan is D anyway, but the thoughts are unavoidable. I drunk texted WW about a week ago (oops) and told her I decided against taking the hot Latina chick home since I was still loyal to her for some unknown reason. No response from her nor did she bring it up later.

I know it's not advisable, but I do find myself flirting with other women. This is coming from anger and loneliness only and is addicting. Though I take pride every time when I can go have fun but then go home by myself.

I'm pretty screwd up I guess. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

Wrsteele

Stay single until your D from your WW. I know how lonely it is but keep doing the right thing.

By the way, I agree with Others. Tell your inlaws the full truth so they fully understand what you have been up against.

They can also keep an eye on your family with a better view of what their daughter is up to.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

_*I wonder if I'm building attraction back thru the 180,*_

Yes and no. She is not thinking about you too much right now. She is just about the same as when you last saw her, texting with the OM, giving blowjobs in her car in the parking lot. She is being strung along by the other man. Eventually she will get sick of this. 

Telling her parents about the true state of affairs also will help move her along. She will want to prove to them that the other man loves her, too, but it will be tough when other man won't leave his wife, and your wife may start to come around about then. That's when you will see the effects of staying dark now. When she does leave the other man, the fact that you have been dark will pique her interest in you and she will respect you for maintaining your dignity and taking care of your family. She will be sorry for what she's lost. 

To your wife, receiving your text about you being able to pick up a hot chick probably made her feel a little sorry for you, maybe made her think you're still pining for her and trying to make her jealous. You picking up some strange in a bar is not going to make your wife jealous. You getting into a serious relationship with another woman (in other words, replacing your wife with another woman) would make your wife jealous.

Your wife still thinks of you as the backup plan. She still thinks she can come back to you when it doesn't work out with the other man.

*whether she has regrets,*

Yes, she regrets how she's acted, how she's hurt you and her family. But she still feels she is in love with the other man and overall she does not regret her deep love for him, which she feels is much deeper than any love she's had for you. He is still stringing her along, and she believes every word he says like it comes down from on high, though she may be starting to have some doubts. Someday soon she will have a very rude awakening about how he really feels about her.

*whether OM and OW are still together,*

When your wife's affair ends, you will find out very quickly. It will not take her too long to realize how foolish she's been. She's probably starting to place more demands on other man's time. It will frustrate both her and him. He also probably has a few replacements for your wife lined up.

*whether WW is still mistressing,*

Probably still giving blowjobs in the car in the parking lot; that's more convenient for the other man, who has no intention of leaving his wife and may have trouble accounting for his time to his wife if he goes to your wife's place.

*whether I could bed WW if I wanted.* 

In the right circumstances, probably. Your wife's respect for how you are handling this is growing.


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## wrsteele1

When does this get easier? How long will it take before I can go a few hours without this on my mind? How do I let go of denial and hope and start moving on?

My kids last week were asking me why mommy doesn't stay at the house anymore. I told them because mommy and daddy don't love each other anymore and that now mommy will live somewhere else. They cried of course and this has been difficult on them. Told them its ok to cry, ok to be sad, etc. Today kids were at my house and out of the blue my daughter says "daddy mommy says she still loves you and that you are separated. She really did." To my kids I just changed the subject a little bit and didn't really acknowledge this.

Geez this process is hard. I know I shouldn't but I wonder what if anything I could have done to prevent this. I feel grief and even some guilt, that I couldn't protect my kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> I know I shouldn't but I wonder what if anything I could have done to prevent this. I feel grief and even some guilt, that I couldn't protect my kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is 100% understandable that you would ask this question. The fact that you are primarily asking it on behalf of your children shows that you love them very much and you are processing your grief over all of this, you are trying to sort out whether or not you've failed them.

Do you honestly, truly believe that there was anything on earth that you could do to persuade your wife that letting a married man use her like a rag doll was immoral, hurtful, selfish, and setting just about the most horrible example for young women on how to behave? If she didn't believe it, no one else was going to manage to get it through her brain. I keep returning to how low her own self-respect and self-esteem must be, that on some level she doesn't believe she deserves a good and caring partner, that she must think that she is unloveable. Okay, let's say you emotionally neglected her. So this prize of a pig is how she compensated for that? There is no way that can be true.

In my own life I struggle daily with the "but for" issue. If only I had been kinder to my husband, if only I had chosen not to vent, if only I had managed to redirect my frustration away from him, etc. etc. But he still would have worked with that woman. He still would have developed a crush on her, I expect. And she was still a selfish person whose husband married her for love while she married him for status, connections, money. She still had many predator qualities (she had been spending inappropriate time with another male co-worker when she took up my H).

Your wife's AP is the same. Always on the hunt and scavenging. We both sit here knowing your wife was not his first, and will not be his last.

Inexperienced lay people think that affairs are about the quality of the marriage. But they happen in good marriages and bad. They are not a good measure of the quality of a marriage, unfortunately. But they do speak volumes about the person willing to break the marriage vows.

A lot of your pain is grieving for the person she was, or the person you thought she was. For your family unit and the good times you had. It is entirely right and appropriate to grieve for that loss. It is like a death, and you should be very gentle and understanding with yourself.


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## Will_Kane

*When does this get easier? How long will it take before I can go a few hours without this on my mind? How do I let go of denial and hope and start moving on?*

After Hank Aaron failed to hit a home run in the last game of the 1973 season to end the year with 713 career home runs, one short of Babe Ruth's record of 714, Aaron said his only fear was that he might not live to see the 1974 season. Aaron had been receiving thousands of death threats and a large assortment of hate mail from people who did not want to see a black man break Ruth's record.

Looking back at that time, Aaron said, "_My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging_."

Just keep swinging. I know it's hard. I'm sorry I can't offer any more useful advice than that.


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## Acabado

> out of the blue my daughter says "daddy mommy says she still loves you and that you are separated. She really did."


Tell her she needs to stop confussing the children with her lies. Tell her she can lie to you, to her family, to everyone, but stop messing up with the childrend's head already!!. I will hurt them. Maybe you can set up a MC session to agreed to certain rules about how to manage this with the children. Selfish woman.


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## warlock07

She is manipulating the children now? now they might think the family isn't together because of you. You guys need to take a united stand before the children


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## happyman64

wrsteele1 said:


> When does this get easier? How long will it take before I can go a few hours without this on my mind? How do I let go of denial and hope and start moving on?
> 
> *You take it one day at a time like you are doing right now. There is no easy answer or solution. *
> 
> 
> Today kids were at my house and out of the blue my daughter says "daddy mommy says she still loves you and that you are separated. She really did."
> 
> *I know your kids are young and your wife should not use your children as messengers. Did you say under your breath "She says she still loves me??? She has a strange way of showing it..."*
> 
> Geez this process is hard. I know I shouldn't but I wonder what if anything I could have done to prevent this. I feel grief and even some guilt, that I couldn't protect my kids.
> 
> *Only your wife could have prevented this by ending the A. She was not willing to do it. Hence the situation you find yourself in now.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Tell your wife to tell the kids the truth. If she will not, tell the kids if your wife loved you she would still be home.

Tell your wife if she doesn't come clean you will eventually tell your kids everything.

I hope you are getting PTSD counseling. Your kids need counseling too.

Try to get her parents to put pressure on her to quit snowing the kids.


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## Acabado

> Tell your wife to tell the kids the truth. If she will not, tell the kids if your wife loved you she would still be home


I don't go even there. I have my own ideas about it but it's not the moment to write them.
The main issue here is not WW's cheating here. The issue is the children don't need the confussion, they need clear answers about future, certaincy, stability, even it's about separation and divorce. False hopes can be sooo damaging. They don't need to different voices pulling them from two sides. They need protection.

Imagine they divorce and later decided to give each other a last chance. It happens sometimes, right? Well the answer then is to wait for a long time untill things are perfectly clear they are going to make it before telling them anything. The same issue here. Certaincy.

The above comment is about to place blame. Why the hell do they need that? To hate her mom?


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## warlock07

Looks like the separation is starting to affect the kids now. Did you guys get them into counseling of some sort?


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## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> Looks like the separation is starting to affect the kids now. Did you guys get them into counseling of some sort?


No they are not in counseling. Should they be? Anyone aware of any good resources to read about helping your kids cope?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> She is manipulating the children now? now they might think the family isn't together because of you. You guys need to take a united stand before the children


I don't know that she's trying to manipulate them. Maybe this is a misguided attempt to protect them. Maybe she even feels this way to some extent, i dont know (still wanting to cake eat). I suppose I need to talk to her about what she's telling the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Children and Divorce: Helping your kids cope with the effects of separation and divorce

Ask your IC.


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## Will_Kane

*I don't know that she's trying to manipulate them. Maybe this is a misguided attempt to protect them. Maybe she even feels this way to some extent, i dont know (still wanting to cake eat). I suppose I need to talk to her about what she's telling the kids.*

I think you're right - probably at least a little bit of all of these things. Still thinking about you as the backup, that she can come back to you when she's done with other man.

Talk to the kids' pediatrician, see what he/she says about whether they should get some kind of counseling.

Consult with your wife about this first.

You should talk to your wife about what you both should be telling the kids. Talk to the pediatrician first and see what he/she says about that also.

The pediatrician is not an expert in this area, but he/she sees this situation a lot more than you do and should be able to give you some guidance, and refer you to a counselor if needed.


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## wrsteele1

Doc left his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

wrsteele1 said:


> Doc left his wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't believe that for one second. 

His wife left him after finding out what a piece of sh!t she was married too. Hope she takes him to the cleaners in the divorce.

BTW -- if he and your exw get together -- then the doc just created a job opening for a new OW !!


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## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> Doc left his wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How did you find out?

Also, I hope your joint custody agreement specifies she can't let your kids be around him.


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## wrsteele1

I Talked to wife outside today when she swapped kids back. She clearly didn't want to talk. But we talked maybe 5 minutes. I told her amongst other things that I wish I could understand why she would be so OK with causing so many people so much hurt (5 kids, OM wife, 4 families) not even addressing my own hurt. She blamed me for the affair. I told her to think again about her own words w marriage counser where she had been unhappy for a couple months. She said whatever and was storming off. I didn't appreciate and dropped an F U, which stopped her. I said yes you heard me right, you made the wrong choice, the better man is standing right here.

I have mixed emotions about this exchange. I'd like her to just own up to everything and I'm done rolling over. I like the fight that I have. But I also clearly have a lot of anger. At OM but at the moment more at my wife. I'd like to cut her out of my life completely, which I would do immediately and permanently right now except it impossible with the kids. She is probably on phone with her bf right now dramaticizing what happened and villianizing me. She probably also call her lawyer and tell her I said F U on the exchange so I'm likely going to be dealing with this again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

I found out from OM wife
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

No such language in joint custody agreement
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jibril

Wrsteele1, as much as you want her to own up to her stupid choices and take responsibility, you need to move on with your life assuming that she _wont_. Because she may very well _never_ admit she made the wrong choice. I don't know if it's pride, shame, mental disease or outright stupidity, but there are some people out there who simply _cannot_ fault themselves, or refuse to. Your wife may change her tune when she hits rock bottom. She may not. I know people who so deluded and narcissistic that they'll blame the world itself for their plight, rather than the gamut of stupid choices they (repeatedly) make throughout their lives.

Just stop talking to her, as best you can. You are going out of your way to let her get under your skin.


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## iheartlife

What did the OMW say? Any other details she had to share?

I would call your lawyer and get the language added in, say that circumstances have changed and you don't want that man around your girls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Near the end of your divorce, look into the possibility of outing them to HR.


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## wrsteele1

We have exchanged a few notes on Facebook. I'd prefer not to air her laundry since she is also a victim. Let's just say she's having a really hard time and as bad as I'm hurting I wouldn't trade places emotionally. Circumstance wise hers is a mirror image of mine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

WR

I know how hard it is for you and that you are very angry at her.

But you need to let go of the anger for your own well being.

Life can get better but only if you let it get better.

Screw her and the OM. Just worry about you and your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theroad

wrsteele1 said:


> When does this get easier? How long will it take before I can go a few hours without this on my mind? How do I let go of denial and hope and start moving on?
> 
> My kids last week were asking me why mommy doesn't stay at the house anymore. I told them because mommy and daddy don't love each other anymore and that now mommy will live somewhere else. They cried of course and this has been difficult on them. Told them its ok to cry, ok to be sad, etc. Today kids were at my house and out of the blue my daughter says "daddy mommy says she still loves you and that you are separated. She really did." To my kids I just changed the subject a little bit and didn't really acknowledge this.
> 
> Geez this process is hard. I know I shouldn't but I wonder what if anything I could have done to prevent this. I feel grief and even some guilt, that I couldn't protect my kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stop lying to your kids. They need the truth so as not to take any of the blame on themselves.

In an age appropriate way tell the kids that WW has a boyfriend and is dating OM. That married people do not have BF/GF.

This is why mom is not home she wants to be with the OM.


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## warlock07

This is heart breaking. Exposed to her family yet? I think you should reconsider informing the HR


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## warlock07

wrsteele1 said:


> I Talked to wife outside today when she swapped kids back. She clearly didn't want to talk. But we talked maybe 5 minutes. I told her amongst other things that I wish I could understand why she would be so OK with causing so many people so much hurt (5 kids, OM wife, 4 families) not even addressing my own hurt. She blamed me for the affair. I told her to think again about her own words w marriage counser where she had been unhappy for a couple months. She said whatever and was storming off. I didn't appreciate and dropped an F U, which stopped her. I said yes you heard me right, you made the wrong choice, the better man is standing right here.
> 
> I have mixed emotions about this exchange. I'd like her to just own up to everything and I'm done rolling over. I like the fight that I have. But I also clearly have a lot of anger. At OM but at the moment more at my wife. I'd like to cut her out of my life completely, which I would do immediately and permanently right now except it impossible with the kids. She is probably on phone with her bf right now dramaticizing what happened and villianizing me. She probably also call her lawyer and tell her I said F U on the exchange so I'm likely going to be dealing with this again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't expect any closure from her. You think she will say something and suddenly everything will make sense? She is sh!tty person trying to just!fy her sh!tty behavior. I won't make sense


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## Chaparral

She found her rich doctor, she is just doing what gold diggers do. Good riddance is what your mantra needs to be.


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## iheartlife

warlock07 said:


> This is heart breaking. Exposed to her family yet? I think you should reconsider informing the HR


Are you still waiting until your August deadline now to tell her family what has really been going on between her and the OM?


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## Chaparral

Waiting to expose her has, as always, been total foolishness.


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## iheartlife

He drove out to see her family at least a couple of times to expose the affair when it was "just" emotional as far as he knew (if I recall correctly). Then he gave at least the FIL (if memory serves) the deadline of August for her to get out of the EA before he'd file for divorce, to some extent based on the ILs' request, if I understood right. Until now, based on OP's posts, he has not informed the family of the sexual nature of the affair. Not sure why.


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## Will_Kane

iheartlife said:


> He drove out to see her family at least a couple of times to expose the affair when it was "just" emotional as far as he knew (if I recall correctly). Then he gave at least the FIL (if memory serves) the deadline of August for her to get out of the EA before he'd file for divorce, to some extent based on the ILs' request, if I understood right. Until now, based on OP's posts, he has not informed the family of the sexual nature of the affair. Not sure why.


He said that he thought based on how bad the situation had become, that he thought her parents knew it was a physical affair, but when they came to help her move out in early July, he realized that they probably didn't know. As far as telling her father the affair was physical, this is what he said: _" I can't tell him that over the phone. I can make an excuse to see him first weekend of August. I will do it then. Not only will it be difficult, but it also goes against my instincts, which is to protect her family, and especially her dad, from more hurt."_

I don't think there is anything wrsteele could have said or done that would have made much of a difference. wrsteele has commented several times about how suddenly and profoundly his wife had changed in just a few months. As soon as she knew that he knew that it was an ongoing physical affair, she has been enraged at him, has barely spoken to him, and has continued to text the other man around the clock.

His wife was a faithful loving spouse for 10 years, then had a few months where she acted distant and lied about the relationship with the other man but kept saying that everything had been fine with the marriage until a few months prior, however, once she was confronted with proof by wrsteele, she said she had never been happy and refused to give up the other man. wrsteele exposed the emotional affair to the parents and the physical affair to the other man's wife, and wrsteele's wife's place of employment found out when he loudly confronted her there.

The only thing wrsteele didn't do was let her parents know that it was a physical affair as opposed to emotional. The parents have been no help at all; I don't think it would have mattered too much as far as getting their daughter to come to Jesus even if they knew it was physical. They have sided with their daughter all along. She has them all believing that she was never happy and, by inference, that wrsteele was a lousy husband.

It is still important to expose the true nature and length of the physical affair to her parents because wrsteele has young children and will have to deal with them for a long time to come, and it WILL make a huge difference in how he is treated if they know the truth.

Even if she came back at this point, or had come back a little earlier, I don't know if wrsteele would have wanted her back. After all the cheating and lies and mis-directed anger, I know I couldn't have taken her back and ever had anything resembling a good marriage after that. wrsteele has been one of the few betrayed spouses I've seen come to this site with good self esteem and a healthy amount of self respect, who refused to allow the cheater to walk all over him like a doormat.

We tell betrayed spouses that no matter what you do, you may not be able to save the marriage. I think this has become one of those cases.


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## Machiavelli

chapparal said:


> She found her rich doctor, she is just doing what gold diggers do. Good riddance is what your mantra needs to be.


I know there are some fine women who are nurses...somewhere. My bro's XWW wasn't one of them, nor was the XWW of one of my very good childhood friends. It's a stereotype.


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## Machiavelli

iheartlife said:


> Are you still waiting until your August deadline now to tell her family what has really been going on between her and the OM?


The problem with exposure is that it might make the WW mad enough to find a new guy...

Oh, wait a minute...


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> He said that he thought based on how bad the situation had become, that he thought her parents knew it was a physical affair, but when they came to help her move out in early July, he realized that they probably didn't know. As far as telling her father the affair was physical, this is what he said: _" I can't tell him that over the phone. I can make an excuse to see him first weekend of August. I will do it then. Not only will it be difficult, but it also goes against my instincts, which is to protect her family, and especially her dad, from more hurt."_
> 
> I don't think there is anything wrsteele could have said or done that would have made much of a difference. wrsteele has commented several times about how suddenly and profoundly his wife had changed in just a few months. As soon as she knew that he knew that it was an ongoing physical affair, she has been enraged at him, has barely spoken to him, and has continued to text the other man around the clock.
> 
> His wife was a faithful loving spouse for 10 years, then had a few months where she acted distant and lied about the relationship with the other man but kept saying that everything had been fine with the marriage until a few months prior, however, once she was confronted with proof by wrsteele, she said she had never been happy and refused to give up the other man. wrsteele exposed the emotional affair to the parents and the physical affair to the other man's wife, and wrsteele's wife's place of employment found out when he loudly confronted her there.
> 
> The only thing wrsteele didn't do was let her parents know that it was a physical affair as opposed to emotional. The parents have been no help at all; I don't think it would have mattered too much as far as getting their daughter to come to Jesus even if they knew it was physical. They have sided with their daughter all along. She has them all believing that she was never happy and, by inference, that wrsteele was a lousy husband.
> 
> It is still important to expose the true nature and length of the physical affair to her parents because wrsteele has young children and will have to deal with them for a long time to come, and it WILL make a huge difference in how he is treated if they know the truth.
> 
> Even if she came back at this point, or had come back a little earlier, I don't know if wrsteele would have wanted her back. After all the cheating and lies and mis-directed anger, I know I couldn't have taken her back and ever had anything resembling a good marriage after that. wrsteele has been one of the few betrayed spouses I've seen come to this site with good self esteem and a healthy amount of self respect, who refused to allow the cheater to walk all over him like a doormat.
> 
> We tell betrayed spouses that no matter what you do, you may not be able to save the marriage. I think this has become one of those cases.


This.

Also, I did expose to the sister (best friend) and I not absolutely sure I didn't expose to parents as well. I believe they knew/know.

And this weekend is when I'm traveling to see her family (actually to run a 5k with her dad who has lost 30 lbs by taking up jogging over last 6 months) so whatever ambiguity was there will be squashed.

But it won't matter. It's not going to change my WW, and even if it did, I've gone from 90% sure I wouldn't take her back to 97% sure I wouldn't take her back. And that was IF she did all the right things beginning immediately today, which clearly isn't going to happen.

Considering the terrible person she's become I don't see how it would be possible. I always thought I would do ANYTHING for my kids. Turns out I was wrong. I would not remain married to a terrible person, even for my kids.

FWIW, I don't think this is a gold-digger situation from my WW. Rather I think 1) sexual humor all day at work, 2) toxic work environment for marriages, 3) unethical/immoral predator OM, and 4) a WW who made bad choices and chose temptation and selfishness over family values, morality, and decency.

I knew about the sexual humor at work and never liked it. I knew my wife occassionally exchanged text messages with OM (during past 2 years) and I didn't like it. I did know him personally and considered him a friend/acquaintance. And I never did was was necessary to get her out of the situation. Why, you ask? I should've, you say? Well, I trusted her completely. COMPLETELY. Well, almost completely. I would've disaproved of certain behaviors that any reasonable husband woud've disapproved of, but she never gave me any reason to suspect she would be anything other than a moral, awesome, hot, dedicated wife and a great mom. She was my best friend, and I was hers. She had some undesirable traits, and I accepted them. I work too much and don't do enough around the house, she accepted that. It worked for us. I firmly believe these things were NOT the downfall of our marriage. The downfall was, as I said, her succombing to temptation and making bad choices. Nothing more, nothing less. Temptation is present in good marriages and bad marriages alike. I've certainly been exposed to it. I might even at times have made some bad choices but was always with friends who I knew would disapprove and I never created an opportunity to make those bad decisions absent of people who would stop me. Alcohol was always involved and I was always thankful the next day after each opportunity I passed up temptation.

I think I would get over this pretty quickly (a few months) if I could sever all ties to her immediately, delete her facebook, delete her number, tell all my friends and family to lose her contact information, and exorcise her from my life. But I can't. We have 2 kids together. Every point of contact with her is a new stab into my heart. Considering I have to see her I have no idea how I'm going to overcome this. I'm filled with anger.


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## cantdecide

wrsteele1 said:


> I think I would get over this pretty quickly (a few months) if I could sever all ties to her immediately, delete her facebook, delete her number, tell all my friends and family to lose her contact information, and exorcise her from my life. But I can't. We have 2 kids together. Every point of contact with her is a new stab into my heart. Considering I have to see her I have no idea how I'm going to overcome this. I'm filled with anger.


I'm right there with you. I have very little contact with my STBEW but when I do, it takes me a few days to get over the anger I feel towards her. My kids are teenagers so things will get better soon. Wish I had a good answer for you.


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## jh52

There are no answers -- good or bad.

You just have to take it one day at a time --- every encounter at a time. 

Can you have have someone else pick up the kids and drop them off for a while for the exchange ?? Just a thought -- wishing you the best in this horrible situation.


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## wrsteele1

cantdecide said:


> I'm right there with you. I have very little contact with my STBEW but when I do, it takes me a few days to get over the anger I feel towards her. My kids are teenagers so things will get better soon. Wish I had a good answer for you.


Older kids might be easier in that way but would also present it's own challenges. Sorry you're there with me; I wish you weren't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

jh52 said:


> There are no answers -- good or bad.
> 
> You just have to take it one day at a time --- every encounter at a time.
> 
> Can you have have someone else pick up the kids and drop them off for a while for the exchange ?? Just a thought -- wishing you the best in this horrible situation.


Appreciate you bringing this up. I've thought about it, especially since the possibility of R is nearing zero. I think I would propose this to wife if we could agree on the right person and they were willing. At this time I'm not sure who the right person would be. Ideally it would be a family member for sake of comforting the kids I think, but her family is not near and she has completely alienated mine. I'm not giving up on this idea, just need to process it.

The other thing that stops me from this strategy is possibility of R. WW is sending mixed signals: a slight signal that she realizes there exists a possibility she is making the wrong choices. I figure there is a 95% chance WW does not ask for forgiveness and reconcilliation in the next six months, and a 97% chance I wouldn't accept her even if she did. Extrapolate those #'s and there is a 1.5 in 1,000 chance we'll be married two years from now. I feel like I should give that 1.5 in 1000 odd a chance to play itself out. Am I stupid for that?


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## OldWolf57

YES, Is this the same woman you heard giving a bj in the parking lot ?? This is the person you would really think of getting back with ???

Your family if you think about it, will probably be more than willing to to help out, now that they see you ridding yourself of her. Have you talked to ANY FAMILY member lately ??


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## wrsteele1

OldWolf57 said:


> YES, Is this the same woman you heard giving a bj in the parking lot ?? This is the person you would really think of getting back with ???
> 
> Your family if you think about it, will probably be more than willing to to help out, now that they see you ridding yourself of her. Have you talked to ANY FAMILY member lately ??


I would not get back with her. I realize when most people say theres a 97 percent chance they wouldn't take WW back they really mean the opposite. But not me. I really mean the door is totally closed and would have to be pried open with a nuclear explosion, and that even that probably wouldnt be enough. I'm just leaving myself an ever so slight out to keep my options open.

My family might help, but they've also sworn her off completely and their is a cold bitterness between them and wife. Getting family to agree to meet with wife, and conversely wife to meet with family, might not be the easiest feat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Its not about your family and your wife, its about the kids and the emotional torture your wife is bringing you.

Don't assume family will not help you, this is not some social event that curdicy must be shown, it about exchanging the kids, it about helping out a son or brother that is in a bad spot and needs a hand so he can see his children with out dealing with the crap from his STBXW.

Go ask and find a family mediator that can help with the kids. you would think they would have no problem in seeing the niece or grandchild.


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## Will_Kane

I understand your anger toward her. What I can't understand is her anger toward you.

In many cases like yours, the wayward wife, once the decision to divorce has been made and your maintaining separate residences, at least apologizes for hurting the betrayed spouse. Come to think of it though, in those cases, the guys were doormats and endured a much longer time in "limbo" of being lied to, gaslighted, trickle-truthed, and cake-eaten than you.

I think Shamwow's story is a lot like yours, minus the kids. I think his wife went from faithful to extreme wayward in 6.2 seconds flat, he was very proactive in finding the truth and not tolerating the lies, and his wife had a lot of anger toward him.

Does she ever say why she is so mad at you? Do you think it's because you pushed for separation, exposed the truth, and made waves in her affair, rather than allowing her to just continue living the lie?

By the way, I agree with you about your wayward wife not being a gold digger. My take on the situation is that other man is the big man on campus, he flirted with a lot of women, and a lot of the other nurses have their eyes on him. I think there was, and probably still is, a bit of a "competition" for his attentions. Your wife is winning the competition. It makes your wife feel very special that someone so sought after as the other man has chosen her. At the same time, however, other man continues to flirt with the other nurses. 

Your wife can't let her guard down or she fears other man will pick someone else. This keeps your wife from getting too comfortable about having bagged him and keeps her focused on maintaining her advantage over the other nurses. Thus, the continual texting of the other man, the blowjobs in the parking lot, etc. If this is the case, it will hit her someday what a fool she's been. It hit Shamwow's ex-wife, but I don't think she ever came begging back to Shamwow.


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## wrsteele1

the guy said:


> Its not about your family and your wife, its about the kids and the emotional torture your wife is bringing you.
> 
> Don't assume family will not help you, this is not some social event that curdicy must be shown, it about exchanging the kids, it about helping out a son or brother that is in a bad spot and needs a hand so he can see his children with out dealing with the crap from his STBXW.
> 
> Go ask and find a family mediator that can help with the kids. you would think they would have no problem in seeing the niece or grandchild.


You're right. Probably. I don't like asking for help. But you're still right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> I understand your anger toward her. What I can't understand is her anger toward you.
> 
> In many cases like yours, the wayward wife, once the decision to divorce has been made and your maintaining separate residences, at least apologizes for hurting the betrayed spouse. Come to think of it though, in those cases, the guys were doormats and endured a much longer time in "limbo" of being lied to, gaslighted, trickle-truthed, and cake-eaten than you.
> 
> I think Shamwow's story is a lot like yours, minus the kids. I think his wife went from faithful to extreme wayward in 6.2 seconds flat, he was very proactive in finding the truth and not tolerating the lies, and his wife had a lot of anger toward him.
> 
> Does she ever say why she is so mad at you? Do you think it's because you pushed for separation, exposed the truth, and made waves in her affair, rather than allowing her to just continue living the lie?
> 
> By the way, I agree with you about your wayward wife not being a gold digger. My take on the situation is that other man is the big man on campus, he flirted with a lot of women, and a lot of the other nurses have their eyes on him. I think there was, and probably still is, a bit of a "competition" for his attentions. Your wife is winning the competition. It makes your wife feel very special that someone so sought after as the other man has chosen her. At the same time, however, other man continues to flirt with the other nurses.
> 
> Your wife can't let her guard down or she fears other man will pick someone else. This keeps your wife from getting too comfortable about having bagged him and keeps her focused on maintaining her advantage over the other nurses. Thus, the continual texting of the other man, the blowjobs in the parking lot, etc. If this is the case, it will hit her someday what a fool she's been. It hit Shamwow's ex-wife, but I don't think she ever came begging back to Shamwow.


Spot on I think. Before we quit therapy she was angry about exposure to her family. That was before the work exposure which was as bad or worse for her. I think she's angry I chose not to be a doormat.

I think there's more to it though. Maybe even some deep rooted psychological stuff. I.e. she has a terrible situation at work, and her life is ruined, and if I had just been a better husband and not caused her to have this affair then she would have such a better life.  Maybe not.

She's a hard one to read, always has been. Many my friends and family have complained over the years that they don't really know her, that she didn't let them in. In reality she was just very private and internalized. Poorest communicator on earth. I accepted these things, but now I'm boxed out. Is it anger? Apathy? Or just boxed out? I ont know.

We haven't had one conversation since the exposure. We haven't had one conversation that didn't involve lies since ilybnilwy in late April. It would be fair to say she hasn't talked to me since April. And it's not like she's itching to start either. When I tried to inverse w her Monday, first time since she moved out July 7 hat I've even tried, she couldn't get away fast enough.

I sent her a funny text here, a provocative you screwed up and lost an a-list husband email there, and she never so much as acknowledged receipt. I let a gf of mine read the email, and asked her what she thought Liz reaction was, and my gf said she probably cried. I bet she deleted it within 30 seconds and never gave it a second thought. It baffles me how she could be so cold hearted. The cold hearted ness and lack of care for the pain he has caused 2 spouses, 5 kids, and 4 families is the reason I could never take her back. What a terrible person she is. And it came from nowhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

> What I can't understand is her anger toward you.


I know of a totally unremorseful WW who was so angry towars her "little men" of a BH to force the D beacuse she thought it was not that big deal, he should have been more "evolved" and let the affair run it's curse, it was a matter or not over react and be more sophisticated. Of course she rejected the idea of stopping the affair once busted. She was angry he divorced her for so little.


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## bandit.45

wrsteele1 said:


> ..... What a terrible person she is. And it came from nowhere.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No.

It was always there brother.

She has always been terrible. She was just a good actress and good at covering up her real personality. Dysfunctionals like her are very, very good actors. 

I know because I was married to one just like her for 21 years.


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## wrsteele1

Acabado said:


> I know of a totally unremorseful WW who was so angry towars her "little men" of a BH to force the D beacuse she thought it was not that big deal, he should have been more "evolved" and let the affair run it's curse, it was a matter or not over react and be more sophisticated. Of course she rejected the idea of stopping the affair once busted. She was angry he divorced her for so little.


Liz was happy I divorced her bc it gave her the freedom to pursue her OM. She was not the least bit weary of potential D. She actually thinks I deserved to be divorced based on my exposure, which in her mind was sooooo far out of bounds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo

bandit.45 said:


> No.
> 
> It was always there brother.
> 
> She has always been terrible. She was just a good actress and good at covering up her real personality. Dysfunctionals like her are very, very good actors.
> 
> I know because I was married to one just like her for 21 years.


:iagree:


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## cantdecide

wrsteele1 said:


> Spot on I think. Before we quit therapy she was angry about exposure to her family. That was before the work exposure which was as bad or worse for her. I think she's angry I chose not to be a doormat.
> 
> I think there's more to it though. Maybe even some deep rooted psychological stuff. I.e. she has a terrible situation at work, and her life is ruined, and if I had just been a better husband and not caused her to have this affair then she would have such a better life. Maybe not.
> 
> She's a hard one to read, always has been. Many my friends and family have complained over the years that they don't really know her, that she didn't let them in. In reality she was just very private and internalized. Poorest communicator on earth. I accepted these things, but now I'm boxed out. Is it anger? Apathy? Or just boxed out? I ont know.
> 
> We haven't had one conversation since the exposure. We haven't had one conversation that didn't involve lies since ilybnilwy in late April. It would be fair to say she hasn't talked to me since April. And it's not like she's itching to start either. When I tried to inverse w her Monday, first time since she moved out July 7 hat I've even tried, she couldn't get away fast enough.
> 
> I sent her a funny text here, a provocative you screwed up and lost an a-list husband email there, and she never so much as acknowledged receipt. I let a gf of mine read the email, and asked her what she thought Liz reaction was, and my gf said she probably cried. I bet she deleted it within 30 seconds and never gave it a second thought. It baffles me how she could be so cold hearted. The cold hearted ness and lack of care for the pain he has caused 2 spouses, 5 kids, and 4 families is the reason I could never take her back. What a terrible person she is. And it came from nowhere.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your wife sounds a lot like my soon to be ex. My family has always felt like they never knew who she really was. She's a very good actress around others.

Mine thought I'd roll over, forgive her and welcome her back with open arms. She got very angry when I filed for divorce. Waiting for the papers to be delivered any day now and she is furious with me anytime we have contact. She initiates contact asking something about the kids and the next thing I know she's found something to be mad about. I think she's just miserable because I refuse to be her doormat anymore.

Mine is the same as yours I think. She's accepted that divorce is coming and won't allow any emotion that will show her vulnerability.


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## wrsteele1

Yeah, there's some similarity. My wife never wanted to be forgiven. At least not if that meant she had to stop cake eating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

it just goes to show you that you cannot reason with someone that is crazy. 

Nor will you see remorse from a crazy selfish person.


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## iheartlife

Yes, I started to say yesterday that I bet she was angry over exposure. Especially the workplace part but it sounds like with her family too (they are religious, I think?). 

Now that you describe her as so hard to read it makes me think she has much more serious issues than you ever let on. A person who is blaming you for not fulfilling their needs (because they are extremely uncommunicative and expect you to be a mind-reader); who doesn't shed a tear over the breakup of their family and hurting their children; that sounds like someone very self-centered, self-entitled. (By which I mean, narcissistic.) 

Of course, who knows what drives her? She may, on the other hand, have experienced rape or abuse at some time in her past, and so she has learned not to trust anyone. Just out of curiosity, have you read any descriptions of Borderline Personality Disorder or Narcissistic Personality Disorder? But it sounds like she is so intensely private that no one knows for sure what is going on in her head.

What is really sad--this is just my prediction--is that she has mistaken infatuation and the attention from the OM for "love." Perhaps she has only rarely experienced the butterflies and "passion," etc. in her life because she is so private. But that stuff is so fleeting. I cannot imagine basing a relationship on that, especially with a man who's going to get extremely bored with her in fairly short order. I've always pitied her profound foolishness, but some people have to learn the hard way.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Yes, I started to say yesterday that I bet she was angry over exposure. Especially the workplace part but it sounds like with her family too (they are religious, I think?).
> 
> Now that you describe her as so hard to read it makes me think she has much more serious issues than you ever let on. A person who is blaming you for not fulfilling their needs (because they are extremely uncommunicative and expect you to be a mind-reader); who doesn't shed a tear over the breakup of their family and hurting their children; that sounds like someone very self-centered, self-entitled. (By which I mean, narcissistic.)
> 
> Of course, who knows what drives her? She may, on the other hand, have experienced rape or abuse at some time in her past, and so she has learned not to trust anyone. Just out of curiosity, have you read any descriptions of Borderline Personality Disorder or Narcissistic Personality Disorder? But it sounds like she is so intensely private that no one knows for sure what is going on in her head.
> 
> What is really sad--this is just my prediction--is that she has mistaken infatuation and the attention from the OM for "love." Perhaps she has only rarely experienced the butterflies and "passion," etc. in her life because she is so private. But that stuff is so fleeting. I cannot imagine basing a relationship on that, especially with a man who's going to get extremely bored with her in fairly short order. I've always pitied her profound foolishness, but some people have to learn the hard way.


The way you describe the way she states her expectations are accurate. Only thing is her "stated" expectations now are no more than coping mechanisms, they were never her expectations at all. So whether she was communicative or not, her so called expectations weren't the downfall of the relationship. That she had EA then PA was the downfall.

BPD doesn't describe her at all. Whether she has a disorder or not clinically with her narcissism I couldn't say. But she has displayed extrordinarilly narcissistic behavior. Of the 10 symptoms of NPD she displays 7, some pretty hardcore. And this isn't the first time I've seen these traits cause a problem. I can think of one other example in our marriage when she was extrordinarilly narcissistic and it took me about two years to completely forgive her: our oldest was born when my wife took herself off birth control when she knew I wasn't ready to have a child. She told me after three days, but apparently I have really good swimmers. That was about 6 years ago (my oldest is 5.5 years).


----------



## iheartlife

Wow. When she wants something, get out of her way, apparently.

If she is a narcissist (and a measurable number of cheaters are), then she's the type of person who blames others for her own problems. She's never late, it just so happened there was bad traffic, etc. On the bigger issues, it someone else's fault, not hers. As you can imagine, it's hard for a true narcissist to change, because their problems are all externalized. Deep anger at rejection could be part of the picture. All of this is worth the paper it's written on, I'm sure you realize.

Have you investigated why you loved someone who was so emotionally withdrawn? Has the counselor talked about this with you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Wow. When she wants something, get out of her way, apparently.
> 
> If she is a narcissist (and a measurable number of cheaters are), then she's the type of person who blames others for her own problems. She's never late, it just so happened there was bad traffic, etc. On the bigger issues, it someone else's fault, not hers. As you can imagine, it's hard for a true narcissist to change, because their problems are all externalized. Deep anger at rejection could be part of the picture. All of this is worth the paper it's written on, I'm sure you realize.
> 
> Have you investigated why you loved someone who was so emotionally withdrawn? Has the counselor talked about this with you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well I haven't investigated per say but I know why I loved her. It started because she was head turning gorgeous. Physical touch is my love language and for the first 6 months we used to have sex 3-5 per day. It was daily until after the children were born. Once the relationship matured and after kids there were lots more reasons. She was a great mom, runs a tight ship at home, common hobbies, our incomes (combined with low cost of living Indy) allowed us some fine amenities such as NFL season tickets and 3-5 vacations per year. She sometimes complained I didn't help enough, I sometimes complained our bedroom life had gone downhill, especially after the birth of our second child. We took a Greek Isles vacation last summer that both us describe as the best time of our lives. She was attracted to me that I make friends easily and pull her into social networks. I was attracted to her that she was the hottest 32 year old around and a great mom and provider to boot. And that doesn't even get into her family. Which is one of the greatest families on Earth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

One thing I did forget though, when I eventually start dating (and I will expect to date a lot without real 'serious' relationships), empathy and outgoing-ness will most definitely be on my radar as desirable traits. Wife's lack of empathy (and treatment of her mother in particular) always bothered me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

the guy said:


> Its not about your family and your wife, its about the kids and the emotional torture your wife is bringing you.
> 
> Don't assume family will not help you, this is not some social event that curdicy must be shown, it about exchanging the kids, it about helping out a son or brother that is in a bad spot and needs a hand so he can see his children with out dealing with the crap from his STBXW.
> 
> Go ask and find a family mediator that can help with the kids. you would think they would have no problem in seeing the niece or grandchild.


I just accepted this advice. I also sent her what is the equivalent of a NC letter. I cried my eyes out when I wrote and sent it. Then I deleted her Facebook and asked my family to do the same. I let her go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

wrsteele1 said:


> I just accepted this advice. I also sent her what is the equivalent of a NC letter. I cried my eyes out when I wrote and sent it. Then I deleted her Facebook and asked my family to do the same. I let her go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My heart goes out to you WR. I know you did not want this but you really have no choice.

I hope you can begin your healing soon.

I had a buddy go through a very similar situation.

He divorced his wife in a little over 90 days. She was not remorseful. She did give up her job as well as rights to the home during a false R. His 2 young girls (6&3) live with him and their mom watches them everyday.

His exwife has just come to realize that she has lost everything, but most of all her family. She is terribly depressed. 

She is so ashamed of what she has done she does not even go out in public. 

You might find yourself in this position in the future. Good Luck.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Hopefully, down the line, you will end up like most of us here. You will find someone better, be happier than before and wonder how you got so lucky.

Don't settle.


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## Remains

Wow, just finished reading most of this thread. So sorry it all ended this way, I was hoping to read a happy ending, I am sure one will come soon, in whatever form that takes, once the difficulties subside... And I am still rooting for u in your own personal recovery of what has got to be up there amongst the most devastating personal disasters. I would rather lose all I own than go through that again. Hope the end of the world begins again for you soon. A very sad story. 

Chin up and look for an interesting hobby, learn a language, something to satisfy & keep u busy  I know, I know, mundane advice. Sounds like u need some mundane enjoyment in your life again tho. Wishing u well


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## member2012

Wrsteele1, I have been following your thread and I am so sorry to hear you are at this point. For some reason I feel like it isn't over yet, but i feel for your situation. The best of luck for you in the near future that details work out the way you hope them to.


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## wrsteele1

Remains said:


> Wow, just finished reading most of this thread. So sorry it all ended this way, I was hoping to read a happy ending, I am sure one will come soon, in whatever form that takes, once the difficulties subside... And I am still rooting for u in your own personal recovery of what has got to be up there amongst the most devastating personal disasters. I would rather lose all I own than go through that again. Hope the end of the world begins again for you soon. A very sad story.
> 
> Chin up and look for an interesting hobby, learn a language, something to satisfy & keep u busy  I know, I know, mundane advice. Sounds like u need some mundane enjoyment in your life again tho. Wishing u well


Thanks for the support. Hopefully I will regain interest in my hobbies soon. : )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

member2012 said:


> Wrsteele1, I have been following your thread and I am so sorry to hear you are at this point. For some reason I feel like it isn't over yet, but i feel for your situation. The best of luck for you in the near future that details work out the way you hope them to.


Thanks. Hopefully the success of my business will match my ambition, and my stbxw will look at my new amazing wife, more kids, and vast wealth someday and say "wow I really messed that up." That's the new dream, at least for now. : )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jlock111

wrsteele1 said:


> My wife of 7 years had an emotional affair with another person, exchanging over 5,000 text messages in less than 2 months. She works with the person and has cut off non-work contact but will not leave her job. Asking her to leave her job would result in termination of my marriage most likely.
> 
> My wife has told the therapist our relationship was strong before the affair and that it started as "helping a friend through a difficult time" (his sister committed suicide last December when this started). My wife can offer me no suggestions as to anything I can do large or small to bring her joy and has told me that "she's sorry and I deserve to be with someone who makes me happy." Supposedly she wants things around the house but I have been moving the Earth at home for the past 5 weeks without so much as a positive blip as a result.
> 
> We have been going to counseling for over a month, but I am still unable to get her to say the words "I want our marriage to work and I will try my best." She has made some efforts to change, but is not doing enough of the right things nor is she interested in doing so. She has told me she doesn't love me, doesn't know if she has hope for us, and is basically just giving effort for the sake of our 2 kids. I feel that her family's strong christian background is also a reason she hasn't left (major disapointment to her family if she "quit").
> 
> I am maddened by her lack of effort and every day I feel further apart from her. There is basically 3 reasons I'm still here 1) my kids, 2) belief in marriage, and 3) she is who I want to be married too.
> 
> Complicating the situation is that she believes that there should always be romantic love in a situation. She tells me at least twice a week she does not love me. 3 times in the past week I've come so close to walking out. I have incredible difficulty controlling my anger and being patient. I feel near my breaking point due to her lack of effort.
> 
> HELP! Is there hope for us? Any suggestions?


Leave her trial separation or whatever absence makes the heart grow fonder if she doesn't really care then it's for the best. Kids would rather come from a broken home than live in one.


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## KanDo

OP,

I for one am happy for you that you have come to this point. I believe you have made the best decision for you family's well being and I *KNOW* you will find that life will be better on the other side of this tragedy. In the future, you will get to a point where the revenge motive will be gone and there will just be indifference; but, for now, if thinking of your STBXW lamenting her poor choices seeing your future happiness gets you moving forward, Have at it!

Good luck.:smthumbup:


----------



## Chaparral

Sooner than later, the feelings for your wife will be pity. She has screwed the pooch. Doctor Dumba$$ is unlikely to care a hoot about her kids. Or her for very long for that matter.

The way you've described her lately, I expect you will move on quicker than you think.

Get out and have some fun with friends.

Do not be her weekend baby sitter for any reason.


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## iheartlife

Wondering if you have any updates, you mentioned you would be talking to her dad this weekend. Hope that cutting off contact with her has been helping.


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## wrsteele1

Cutting off contact is helping. For some reason a light switch went off as I sent her the NC letter and I've been pretty fine since I did it. Conversation with dad and sister went well. I wasn't as graphic as some have advised, but I don't have to be. Its pretty clear to all how this ended. WW and OM being less secretive on Facebook I hear. I wouldn't know bc I deleted WW as a friend. OM wife has been calling me, om found out, freaked out, stole her phone. Can't share much about that without violating her confidence, but take my word this loved triangle between my wife, om, and om wife is messed up. The story in its entirety including OM's side reads like a best selling novel. The drama doesn't have to include me much longer though, i'm 97% agreed on a settlement! And its been 60 days, so i'm guessing this could be final in a month our so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wrsteele1

Divorce wasn't what I wanted but I now can't get her out of my life fast enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

wrsteele1 said:


> Divorce wasn't what I wanted but I now can't get her out of my life fast enough.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We all know that.

And your wife left you no choice.

Wait till the OM dumps her then you will see drama.

It is inevitable.

Get your D done and make yourself as scarce as possible.

I am glad you spoke to your STBXW's family so there is no BS regarding the D.


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## Jibril

In my own experience, ending contact with the WS helped tremendously in moving forward. I still think about her (a lot, I won't lie), but not having her buzz around me gave me time to reflect, particularly on all the rot the relationship had. I couldn't really see that (or maybe I refused to) when she was still contacting me.

That, and deliberately severing contact gave the breakup a _finality_ that helps me move forward, without looking over my shoulder to think back to the "good old times."

Good luck, and stay dark.


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## iheartlife

I think there are lots of reasons why the OM will dump her, some of them include (per your descriptions):

--cheated before--he's a serial cheater, always bad news
--he was stringing yet _another_ woman along in addition to your wife at the same time
--he has 3 young children
--his wife doesn't sound like she's giving up, she's going to fight for him and is ready to take him back despite his past
--his sister committed suicide not long ago, perhaps some of his actions since then have been out of depression / mourning--he may wake up and decide it was all a mistake

I was also re-reading your earliest posts, and recalling how she claimed that she wanted more help around the house from you--FAT CHANCE this man is going to lift a finger in that direction. I expect she will find he is extremely self-absorbed when all is said and done.

But as you say, this is neither here nor there. You have held your head high from the beginning, and did what you could.


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## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> I think there are lots of reasons why the OM will dump her, some of them include (per your descriptions):
> 
> --cheated before--he's a serial cheater, always bad news
> --he was stringing yet _another_ woman along in addition to your wife at the same time
> --he has 3 young children
> --his wife doesn't sound like she's giving up, she's going to fight for him and is ready to take him back despite his past
> --his sister committed suicide not long ago, perhaps some of his actions since then have been out of depression / mourning--he may wake up and decide it was all a mistake
> 
> I was also re-reading your earliest posts, and recalling how she claimed that she wanted more help around the house from you--FAT CHANCE this man is going to lift a finger in that direction. I expect she will find he is extremely self-absorbed when all is said and done.
> 
> But as you say, this is neither here nor there. You have held your head high from the beginning, and did what you could.


He doesn't do anything re: house. His wife had surgery days ago, and can't lift kids, yet he left her there alone with 3 kids hardly able to change a diaper while he spends the night with my wife. What a winner huh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> He doesn't do anything re: house. His wife had surgery days ago, and can't lift kids, yet he left her there alone with 3 kids hardly able to change a diaper while he spends the night with my wife. What a winner huh.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The doctor is lucky this stuff doesn't end up on cheaterville.com.

Hell I would out him on Jerry Springer though.

Actually there was a radio scam the other day where the DJ called a dude and asked him to come on that Maurry whatever show and freaked the dude out. His girlfriend threw him under the bus for laughs. He was innocent but he still freaked.:rofl:


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## jh52

wrsteele1 said:


> Divorce wasn't what I wanted but I now can't get her out of my life fast enough.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are getting stronger and detaching more everyday.

Keep up the good work --

You will have moments -- but they will come less and less.


----------



## turnera

You may want to contact OMW and let her know about places like this. If you don't want to send her here, send her to marriageadvocates.com; they're a great resource for betrayed spouses. It sounds like she could use a plan.


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## Shaggy

Also, why not post OM to cheaterville.com ? he certainly qualifies for membership.


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## happyman64

wrsteele1 said:


> He doesn't do anything re: house. His wife had surgery days ago, and can't lift kids, yet he left her there alone with 3 kids hardly able to change a diaper while he spends the night with my wife. What a winner huh.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WR,

Just curious, how did you know about [email protected] leaving his recovering wife unattended to spend time with your STBXW?

HM64


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## lordmayhem

happyman64 said:


> WR,
> 
> Just curious, how did you know about [email protected] leaving his recovering wife unattended to spend time with your STBXW?
> 
> HM64


I think he mentioned the OMW has been calling him until the OM found out and took her phone.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Shaggy said:


> Also, why not post OM to cheaterville.com ? he certainly qualifies for membership.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## iheartlife

lordmayhem said:


> I think he mentioned the OMW has been calling him until the OM found out and took her phone.


They prob also message via FB


----------



## wrsteele1

happyman64 said:


> WR,
> 
> Just curious, how did you know about [email protected] leaving his recovering wife unattended to spend time with your STBXW?
> 
> HM64


I had found this out from OM wife.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> They prob also message via FB


I believe that they do, however my closest friends, family and self deleted her fb several weeks ago.


----------



## warlock07

How are you coping w?


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## wrsteele1

Two and a half weeks since checking in. Things have been getting easier. Completely accepted that my marriage is over and finding contentment with that. Learning to live alone has been an adjustment. I'm 29 years old and hadn't really thought about it, but had roommates in college then moved in with gf/stbxw, and so amazingly this is the first time I've ever lived alone. Getting into routines with myself and the kids, and hitting my busy time at work. Fortunately I'm finding myself able to concentrate on work again, and that has began only over the past week or so. 

The biggest thing I'm struggling with lately is anger. Specifically anger at my stbxw for destroying my views on honesty, integrity, trust, and marriage. I believe that I will never trust again like I did with stbxw. Also, anger that she inflicted the pain she did on me. I'm actually not angry at her guiltlessness and remorseless ness, because in my view that doesn't matter anymore since its after the point the irreparable damage was done.

I'm still having IM drop kids off and having almost zero contact with stbxw. She is trying to be nice to me but I've gone dark and cold on her. I'm still not interested in even pretending to be her friend. The concept of acting like nothing happened and moving forward is foreign to me. What has been done cannot be undone and I don't feel ready to forgive.

I took the advice of a poster and ended contact with OM wife.

Lastly, I'm early in the stages of something many of you may classify as a mistake. There's this girl .......


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## jh52

"Lastly, I'm early in the stages of something many of you may classify as a mistake. There's this girl ....... "





*NO NO NO ---*


There is no way you are ready to date after everything you have just gone through !!!


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## warlock07

Let the girl know the truth of your situation. She will be a rebound


----------



## wrsteele1

I actually laughed out loud a little jh when I read your post. I had a feeling that sentence would provoke a pretty strong reaction.

So almost everyone I spend time with is either a dude, married, or family. I figure it's time to start changing that. So I gave a couple girlfriends permission to start introducing me to their single friends. I did very specifically tell them in no uncertain terms that this was not for dating, and really in the interest in beginning to widen my social circles. JH is right, I'm not remotely close to being ready to "date."

That said, however, I do have a romantic interest. I've known her for 10 years. She is also just out of a breakup (few months ahead of me), and lives 190 miles away. Sure, there is risk. But she is drop dead beautiful and very fun and despite that we don't talk about it at all we are keenly aware of each others circumstances. I find it hard not to want to hang out with a beautiful and fun single woman.

I haven't had any sex in 4 months and haven't had good sex in I honestly don't know how long. I'm not in to the one night stand thing and I definitely don't want to begin an actual relationship starting with courting someone I know nothing about. So this is where I find myself. With a scheduled weekend to hang out with an old friend in September. And I'm looking forward to it. As far as I can tell, the only risk is a messy ending, and like I said, I'm willing to take a risk.

Drop dead gorgeous this girl, I'm way out of my league here.


----------



## happyman64

wrsteele1 said:


> I actually laughed out loud a little jh when I read your post. I had a feeling that sentence would provoke a pretty strong reaction.
> 
> So almost everyone I spend time with is either a dude, married, or family. I figure it's time to start changing that. So I gave a couple girlfriends permission to start introducing me to their single friends. I did very specifically tell them in no uncertain terms that this was not for dating, and really in the interest in beginning to widen my social circles. JH is right, I'm not remotely close to being ready to "date."
> 
> That said, however, I do have a romantic interest. I've known her for 10 years. She is also just out of a breakup (few months ahead of me), and lives 190 miles away. Sure, there is risk. But she is drop dead beautiful and very fun and despite that we don't talk about it at all we are keenly aware of each others circumstances. I find it hard not to want to hang out with a beautiful and fun single woman.
> 
> I haven't had any sex in 4 months and haven't had good sex in I honestly don't know how long.  I'm not in to the one night stand thing and I definitely don't want to begin an actual relationship starting with courting someone I know nothing about. So this is where I find myself. With a scheduled weekend to hang out with an old friend in September. And I'm looking forward to it. As far as I can tell, the only risk is a messy ending, and like I said, I'm willing to take a risk.
> 
> Drop dead gorgeous this girl, I'm way out of my league here.


To be honest WR, the way you have conducted yourself through this whole mess no woman is out of your league!!

Have fun with the friend. She knows the risks. And please tell us the look on your STBXW face when she asks you about it.

It will happen sooner or later.

Good Luck

PS
I got rid of my baggage too a long time ago. Just remember that just because you were forced to trade her in does not mean you cannot trade up!!! Make the next one an 11!!!


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> The biggest thing I'm struggling with lately is anger. Specifically anger at my stbxw for destroying my views on honesty, integrity, trust, and marriage. I believe that I will never trust again like I did with stbxw. Also, anger that she inflicted the pain she did on me. I'm actually not angry at her guiltlessness and remorseless ness, because in my view that doesn't matter anymore since its after the point the irreparable damage was done.


You know about the stages of grief, right? Whenever you experience a loss, there is denial, bargaining, anger, depression, and acceptance. One misconception about these different stages of grief is that you should experience all of them. Another is that you go through them in an orderly fashion one by one. The truth is you will slide back and forth amongst them, retreating back a bit and then moving slowly forward.

Anger, you can see, in the 'traditional' model of the grief stages, is quite a ways along toward acceptance. It is good to hear that you feel you're making some progress. Of course, holding on to that anger rather than working past it is not a good thing. But obviously it's a natural part of being betrayed. I can understand why you feel that resentment.

I have to ask out of curiosity, about your comment about the bizarre triangle between your STBXW, the OM, and the OMW. I assume you mean that OMW is still fighting for the OM and not letting go. But I also guess that this is playing out on FB where you have made the wise choice to bow out for your own sake. And I'm glad to hear that the IM thing is working out in terms of exchanging the children. I bet that's helped you out a lot.


----------



## wrsteele1

I assume OMW is fighting and not letting go. Haven't had any correspondence for a couple weeks though so I'm not sure. I no longer care beyond the empathy expected of a friendly acquaintance. I wish her well but she is fighting an uphill battle. She is hurting bad I have a feeling.

I am still bewildered by stbxw behavior, but I look at it with a funny perspective now. Almost amusement. It's ludicrous. Sometimes I think about flirting with her and I catch myself and stop prior to. The danger isn't rejection any more, in fact it's just the opposite. She can never have me again.

Stbxw hates the intermediary exchange, which I regret to admit gives me satisfaction.


----------



## happyman64

> Stbxw hates the intermediary exchange, which I regret to admit gives me satisfaction


Just let us know when the intermediary is your hot new GF.

I would really appreciate a photo of your wife's new face when that happens.

Sorry, I must be in revenge mode right now.


:FIREdevil::FIREdevil:


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

wrsteele1 said:


> The danger isn't rejection any more, in fact it's just the opposite. She can never have me again.


WR, isn't that a great feeling? To finally be in control of your emotions. Sometimes I want to tell my ex that 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' just to let her get a sense of how it felt when she said it to me. But I don't want to engage her beyond things related to the kids and the two dogs.

Actually, I find myself feeling sorry for her - which is probably a sign that healing is taking place.


----------



## wrsteele1

Yes it is a great feeling. When I think about her the phrase "damaged goods" comes to my mind. I feel bad for her that she destroyed something good, but it was her choice.


----------



## lordmayhem

wrsteele1 said:


> Yes it is a great feeling. When I think about her the phrase "damaged goods" comes to my mind. I feel bad for her that she destroyed something good, but it was her choice.


:iagree:


----------



## wrsteele1

I don't know if this is the right place for this anymore since I'm more coping with divorce than infidelity at this point. But I digress...

Been doing fine the past month overall. More broke than I've been in a while, shorter temper, more independent. Confident and more or less happy.

Realize a lot of things that took me a while to realize, such as for stbxw to make as many and as deep of bad decisions as she had, this has to be the person she always was. And therefore, I never should have married her in the first place. Sure I got some good things out of it, such as knowing her family and my kids, but overall I never should have married her. But how do you ever know that about somebody?

On the developments front: probably a finalized divorce in November sometime at the latest. Also, talked to stbxw about what happened for the first time (incredibly) this past week. She is remorseless to this day. Today, stbxw purposefully took her bf to a football game she knew my parents would be at and sat next to my dad and sister w/ her new bf. Yes, her bf is the doctor that wrecked my marriage. Incredible.

I'm not angry with her though, apathetic mostly. Was hard for my family. My only regret is the family dynamic my kids are stuck with.


----------



## wrsteele1

What kind of man destroys a marriage then rubs it in the nose of the bs's inlaws? This man is a doctor and supposedly a contributing member of his community and society. What a d0uchebag. Who does that? It's the kind of thing that is so far out there that there is no point in even being angry .... Clearly a sign of a deranged person.


----------



## happyman64

wrsteele1 said:


> What kind of man destroys a marriage then rubs it in the nose of the bs's inlaws? This man is a doctor and supposedly a contributing member of his community and society. What a d0uchebag. Who does that? It's the kind of thing that is so far out there that there is no point in even being angry .... Clearly a sign of a deranged person.


They are both d*uchebags. Not only that they are Narcissistic AssH*les.

Your STBXW should be ashamed of herself.

But WR, it does not surprise me. If it was my Dad or Sister they would have been beaten in the stands.

It will be over shortly for you. And believe this. They will be repaid in kind. Maybe not in 10, 20 or 30 years but it will happen. I have seen it with my own eyes and Karma is real.

Stay strong, love your children and after your D is final spit in her face just one time. 

*You have earned it and she certainly deserves it.*

HM64


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## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> What kind of man destroys a marriage then rubs it in the nose of the bs's inlaws? This man is a doctor and supposedly a contributing member of his community and society. What a d0uchebag. Who does that? It's the kind of thing that is so far out there that there is no point in even being angry .... Clearly a sign of a deranged person.


No doubt he is scum. I think the part that I found most disgusting was the gall he had to actually call you and lie to you personally about the nature of their relationship. And then after you learned the truth, he had the nerve again to try to act like the two of you could continue with some form of friendship. Not enough adjectives in the dictionary for that low-life.

But the truth is, if I understood you correctly, he doesn't know your parents from Adam. He should have some shame, but they are basically strangers to him. 

(What did they do--use your season tickets? Time to figure out a way to make sure that never happens again, even if it means selling your seats and splitting the $ with her. Or sell one ticket, to a family member, and tell her she can keep the other one.)

Your wife on the other hand, I can only say wow. Ice water runs in her veins. If I'd broken up two marriages, shattered the hearts of grandparents and any number of siblings, and wrecked the lives of no fewer than 5 tiny children, I wouldn't be able to live with myself, let alone rub it in to two people who were like second parents to her. 

He sounds like such a messed up person. This is going to sound extremely harsh, but you have to wonder about him and his family of origin. His sister committed suicide, and he found solace with your wife over that tragedy apparently, destroying his marriage in the process. Except that from what you said, he was _already_ a player. He is no prize, and even if it takes years, there is no doubt in my mind that she will eventually regret ever having met him.​


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## Shaggy

And how is it you family didn't spill their drinks on ********* bf?

Or even a nice hot coffee?


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## warlock07

Yeah, if you had a little bit of self-doubt about your own contribution to this situation, it should be cleared up now. They are just sh!tty people. Actually, they deserve each other.


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## Chaparral

Well, if I remember correctly, you did not expose him far and wide. Instead he just looks at you as a chump and he got everything he wanted with no muss and no fuss.

Put him on cheaterville and send him the annonymus email they offer.

Out him to the hospital board where he works and put a smile on your face.


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## OldWolf57

So your ww is so shameless that she actually took her married bf and sat next to your parents, and you have not said anything to her about that ???

Does your family know this guy is married ???
If so, then I see why you have NEVER followed the advice here.

My DAD would have stood up and announced to everyone there that here is my soon to be exd and her MARRIED bf that broke up her family. 
Then called them so many names they would have slunk away like the lowest slime they are.

YOU need to take a stand, that if she must come with her pos, that she stay away from your family.


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## OldWolf57

Man I said I would never post on your thread again, but YOU just don't get it.

She has no respect for you are your family.
When are YOU going to set some boundries ??


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## Acabado

OldWolf they are not R'ing, the are d'ing, living separately and STBX (maybe already XW) is dating openly her AP who also left BW.
He can't enforce any boundarie. She's now a free woman, with no morals but free.


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## iheartlife

I agree with chap's advice to post him on cheaterville and to write to the hospital board, but since he wants D now and has said several times he will never take her back, I'd wait until after D to do it, which is just a few weeks away now per wr.

To his credit, he's said he's cut off all contact with her, she doesn't live with him any more, and he uses intermediaries to drop off the kids. Part of the reason they just spoke about the affair so recently is that he took all that time to go totally dark on her and as you can see he's quite emotionally detached considering.

I suspect his parents were surprised, perhaps they expected her to bring her sister or a friend rather than the POSOM. I bet that in spite of wr's rather clear position to his family that he wanted them to cut off contact with her, that they may not have done as he wished. So while these two jokers showed themselves to be the narcissists that they are, it may not be altogether a bad thing for OP that his family had a full-on personal realization of who their ex-daughter and ex-sister truly has become--or always was.


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## wrsteele1

I can handle criticism, but it's based in misperception in this case. I followed every piece of advice I received on this board with two exceptions: 1) posting to cheaterville and 2) outing to human resources.

I investigated when I initially thought EA only. After DDay1 I exposed far and wide, I did the 180, I went dark on her. I lost 25 lbs and am in the best shape I've been in in 11 years. After DDay2 I didn't expose initially, mainly bc I had at that point decided on D and I wanted to tell father in law, who I was very close to, in person. I finally got her to move out on July 7, a momentous day in my life. So it took me a couple weeks but I'd decided on D so what difference did it make? I don't regret waiting so I could tell him in person.

Regarding boundaries: I don't understand. I kicked her out that's really all I could do. I would have liked R but she didn't make that an option bc wouldn't stop the affair or express regret and remorse.

I have 4 season tix. 2 I sell to my parents. The others are WW and mine. I have 5 games WW has 5. WW skipped the first game she had tix too. If she had class she could have sold her tix and sat elsewhere in stadium. Or held her head high and went, but taken someone other than AP. But she chose to take AP. I feel her reasoning was to give me the middle finger bc she is jealous that I am dating, but she would never admit that.

And my family did give her a piece of their mind, in point of fact. I am thankful they did not get themselves arrested.


----------



## wrsteele1

OldWolf57 said:


> So your ww is so shameless that she actually took her married bf and sat next to your parents, and you have not said anything to her about that ???
> 
> Does your family know this guy is married ???
> If so, then I see why you have NEVER followed the advice here.
> 
> My DAD would have stood up and announced to everyone there that here is my soon to be exd and her MARRIED bf that broke up her family.
> Then called them so many names they would have slunk away like the lowest slime they are.
> 
> YOU need to take a stand, that if she must come with her pos, that she stay away from your family.


OldWolf that is exactly what happened. I can tell her to stay away from my family but at the end of the day I have no control. What I DO have control over is who sits in MY seats. So the best I can do is send friends and family to the game in my seats and instruct them to make sure to let the entire section know what is happening.

But, at the end the day, that is necessary but unuseful. All I can really do for ME is divorce this terrible woman.


----------



## happyman64

wrsteele1 said:


> OldWolf that is exactly what happened. I can tell her to stay away from my family but at the end of the day I have no control. What I DO have control over is who sits in MY seats. So the best I can do is send friends and family to the game in my seats and instruct them to make sure to let the entire section know what is happening.
> 
> But, at the end the day, that is necessary but unuseful. All I can really do for ME is divorce this terrible woman.


WR

You are right. All you can do is D her and separate yourself from her.

And I am glad you are dating.

Just make sure the next Mrs. WR has no narcissistic traits and is not selfish.

I hope your kids are adjusting as best they can.

HM64


----------



## Acabado

> I feel her reasoning was to give me the middle finger bc she is jealous that I am dating, but she would never admit that.


Really? Really? :smthumbup::rofl:


> And my family did give her a piece of their mind, in point of fact. I am thankful they did not get themselves arrested.


C'mon, please tell us, tell us.


----------



## OldWolf57

Ok Ws. if you say so. Good job your Sis and Dad.

But don't you see how he is being so DAMN smug. That S**t won't fly with me, Outing him would have hurt him pro and socially.
And no, it wouldn't have been revenge. It maybe would have saved someone else from the same thing because of him. 

I remember he was also seeing other women, and was NOT leaving his wife. You outing him would maybe give some other hubbie the idea to checkup on his wife working late at the hospital.

Either way, GOOD JOB with the new lady.


----------



## wrsteele1

You might be right Wolf, metaphorically, I hit my wife with everything I had. I could have hit him harder. I exposed to his wife but she did nothing. My wife was a brick wall, but I actually think if OMW had followed the blueprint she could've R'd. I'm actually not certain she still couldn't. But I'm not sad I've lost my w now that she's been exposed for who she is. So I can't say I'm sorry how it played out. It's for the best.


----------



## wrsteele1

Acabado said:


> Really? Really? :smthumbup::rofl:
> C'mon, please tell us, tell us.


Not much to tell. Everyone 4 rows up and 4 rows down knew who WW and AP were and that they were wrecking 2 marriages w/ 5 kids and had the gall to come to a FB game and sit next to stbx inlaws. I think my family was stupefied they showed up at all, let alone together.

I talked to OMW about it, she thinks WW didn't tell AP the seats were next to my family. I find that hard to believe but if true would be HILARIOUS.


----------



## OldWolf57

You can still expose him Ws.

But thats your decision and I respect that.

I'm not a nice person when crossed, so I will sink so low I would need a latter to kiss a worm a**, if that is what it takes to get even.

I don't expect you are anyone else to be me, just explaining why I post a certain way sometime.

All the Best to You Man.


----------



## wrsteele1

OldWolf57 said:


> You can still expose him Ws.
> 
> But thats your decision and I respect that.
> 
> I'm not a nice person when crossed, so I will sink so low I would need a latter to kiss a worm a**, if that is what it takes to get even.
> 
> I don't expect you are anyone else to be me, just explaining why I post a certain way sometime.
> 
> All the Best to You Man.


I still might. If I do it will be after D. 2 reasons I choose not to 1) OMW asked me not to and 2) if I get WW fired it would most likely hit me in my own pocket book. Therefore, most likely I will close this chapter. But I haven't made a final decision yet.


----------



## turnera

Love your parents!


----------



## turnera

Put a sign up somewhere that says 'ask me about my cheating stbx.' lol


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## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> Not much to tell. Everyone 4 rows up and 4 rows down knew who WW and AP were and that they were wrecking 2 marriages w/ 5 kids and had the gall to come to a FB game and sit next to stbx inlaws. I think my family was stupefied they showed up at all, let alone together.
> 
> I talked to OMW about it, she thinks WW didn't tell AP the seats were next to my family. I find that hard to believe but if true would be HILARIOUS.


That last part made me laugh out loud. I also agree that it's a stretch but it's nice to think that he was rather blindsided by the icy cold reception they received.

I also wouldn't count out the OMW. While she seems to be going about things the wrong way, it sounds like she's willing to wait out this relationship. If she has HIS family in her corner, you never know...it just might work. I feel very sorry for her that she would even consider this option, because he is such a troubled soul. Has he moved out of his home? Have they moved in together? But I take it he still hasn't filed for divorce? 

Your stbxw certainly burned her bridges. Assuming that by some miracle you changed your mind, I could see your family never forgiving her. I was thinking back to what you said, that she seems to believe very firmly in the butterflies you get when you first fall in love--that she thinks that if you don't feel that way any more, you're perfectly entitled to abandon the relationship. And if you feel that way about someone new, then it was "meant to be." 

So childish, so immature, so foolish, so stupid. I just keep thinking of the long list of people lying in the wake of this affair--and I'm sorry, it simply disgusts me.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> That last part made me laugh out loud. I also agree that it's a stretch but it's nice to think that he was rather blindsided by the icy cold reception they received.
> 
> I also wouldn't count out the OMW. While she seems to be going about things the wrong way, it sounds like she's willing to wait out this relationship. If she has HIS family in her corner, you never know...it just might work. I feel very sorry for her that she would even consider this option, because he is such a troubled soul. Has he moved out of his home? Have they moved in together? But I take it he still hasn't filed for divorce?
> 
> Your stbxw certainly burned her bridges. Assuming that by some miracle you changed your mind, I could see your family never forgiving her. I was thinking back to what you said, that she seems to believe very firmly in the butterflies you get when you first fall in love--that she thinks that if you don't feel that way any more, you're perfectly entitled to abandon the relationship. And if you feel that way about someone new, then it was "meant to be."
> 
> So childish, so immature, so foolish, so stupid. I just keep thinking of the long list of people lying in the wake of this affair--and I'm sorry, it simply disgusts me.


I agree I'm not counting out either OMW b/c she is determined to wait it out. But the cards are stacked against her. I forgot that part of the update. OM filed for divorce. However, it's weird. OM still shows emotional attachment to his wife. He texts his wife while sitting with mine at the football game. He shows some regret at least verbally, stringing her along. And OM stays with my wife half the time. When my WW has the kids, OM stays at home with his wife and they still sleep in the same bed.

OM stands to lose a lot financially, and also stands to lose a lot of convenience with his kids. I think there are 3 possible ends there 1) status quo: OM maintains a wife and a mistress, 2) OM D's and counts on my STBXW to fill that convenience void, or 3) OM abandons his kids and sees them, for example, every other weekend. If I had to bet it'd be #3 but none would surprise me.


----------



## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> He texts his wife while sitting with mine at the football game.


That makes me think that he likely was surprised to see who they were sitting with. Because OMW says he didn't know, and she is also saying he contemporaneously contacted her--so that would add up. We're just speculating, but that probably put his relationship with WS into context--that the two of them really are breaking up much more than their immediate families. Also if true, that level of coldness by your WS might not reflect so well on her--I know it would give me a giant pause. But he's so full of himself, he probably spent a nanosecond thinking about it...



wrsteele1 said:


> He shows some regret at least verbally, stringing her along. And OM stays with my wife half the time. When my WW has the kids, OM stays at home with his wife and they still sleep in the same bed.


From what you said before, I wondered if this was the case.

I will tell you why this method (OMW's) for keeping a spouse isn't recommended on TAM--it takes an overwhelming amount of strength to play the waiting game. For most people, doing this erodes their self-respect so much that they eventually start to not only hate themselves, but also hate their cheating spouse for subjecting them to this. And who's to say it works in the long run? Say he D's, regrets it, and gets back with his wife (he has this written all over him)--he will likely stray again, it's in his nature as a serial cheater with issues inside that he isn't addressing directly, he's just assuaging them by stealing other men's wives. I keep drawing the analogy between him and his sister who committed suicide because I don't think their internal issues are so very different. He is on some path of self-destruction and who knows where it will lead.



wrsteele1 said:


> OM stands to lose a lot financially, and also stands to lose a lot of convenience with his kids. I think there are 3 possible ends there 1) status quo: OM maintains a wife and a mistress, 2) OM D's and counts on my STBXW to fill that convenience void, or 3) OM abandons his kids and sees them, for example, every other weekend. If I had to bet it'd be #3 but none would surprise me.


He's really in a pickle, isn't he? There is not going to be any pretty endings to this one. Your WS is going to resent the hell out of him eventually, because whether they marry or not, I expect he will force her to share him with the OMW/kids on some level.

As much as I'm curious about what happens to them and obviously I asked so you answered, just keep in mind what is BEST for you and what has gotten you so far down the road--emotional detachment. Don't use your (or our) fascination with this train wreck as an excuse to stay plugged in to their 3-way drama. It's not healthy for you.

Speaking of health, I haven't weighed in on the dating, but just want to mention dingerdad's thread as an example of why dating so soon after your marriage implodes (and especially when you're young like dingerdad and probably have never spent time on your own) may not be the best idea. A woman your age is looking to marry and have a family of her own and she's not interested in playing around no matter what words come out of her mouth. So just be kind.


----------



## wrsteele1

My kids are doing OK overall. I'm worried about the 3 year old b/c of her disinterest in being social with other kids and hates going to pre-school. Leaving her was OK before the separation but getting out of there now requires her to be pried off of me. She just has some separation issues that hopefully she will outgrow. My 5 year old seems to be doing fine. Although I'm sure she's hurt, she's handled it with great adaptability. My stbxw is in denial about the affects on the kids. But at least things have been amicable as far as kids know. We've never disputed custody and only once argued in front of the kids (and stbxw definitely had it coming that time... I wasn't home and she wasn't watching the kids and kids painted the garage floor with puffy paint.... and when stbxw realized it she didn't give a you know what because she knew it was no longer her house.... I came home to a painted front door, sidewalk, garage floor, and driveway hours later. Obviously that was pre-July 7 move out. Needless to say she knew I wasn't happy as did neighbors within a block radius and before I was done stbxw was scrubbing the sidewalk with muratic acid).

OM/OMW's kids are not as good. Their 9 year old throws up every day.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Also if true, that level of coldness by your WS might not reflect so well on her--I know it would give me a giant pause.


Thought about this. Like you said, speculative. But from the tone of my conversation with OMW I think this is a distinct possibility.

From what you said before, I wondered if this was the case.



iheartlife said:


> As much as I'm curious about what happens to them and obviously I asked so you answered, just keep in mind what is BEST for you and what has gotten you so far down the road--emotional detachment. Don't use your (or our) fascination with this train wreck as an excuse to stay plugged in to their 3-way drama. It's not healthy for you.


Thanks. I'm mindful of this. After the football game incident I called OMW first time in a month. Once I get my story up to date I'll drop back into the abyss for a while until there is new major updates. Hopefully next update will be a finalized D. 



iheartlife said:


> Speaking of health, I haven't weighed in on the dating, but just want to mention dingerdad's thread as an example of why dating so soon after your marriage implodes (and especially when you're young like dingerdad and probably have never spent time on your own) may not be the best idea. A woman your age is looking to marry and have a family of her own and she's not interested in playing around no matter what words come out of her mouth. So just be kind.


I will read his thread. I'm a little worried about this. I'm having fun and have been totally up-front with a great girl. And she has a lot of things that rationally appeal to me (great family [that I have not met], never married, no kids, knows I have kids, willing to meet my kids when I'm ready, good looking, fun, great friends, independent, etc etc etc). I could warm to the idea of spending time with her, but I'm worried b/c I think she wants to marry me. The idea of saying "until death do us part" again just seems out the question to me. And I have had some this conversation with her, and even told her that she may be better off cutting me loose. I've told her to keep her eyes open for other people (she said no). But these words seem to build attraction more than they kill it. I'm not sure what to do with this, because I want to keep going, but I don't want to hurt someone else in the process. So for now, we're taking things a week at a time. Going very slow. No kid introductions, not talking every day. It's complicated anyway by the fact that she lives 180 miles away, has a busy life, works, and I have custody considerations to work around. So going anything but slow isn't really an option anyway. I don't know. This could be a big mistake. Problem is, it doesn't feel like a mistake and if it is, it's a mistake I'm really enjoying making.


----------



## turnera

wrsteele1 said:


> My kids are doing OK overall. I'm worried about the 3 year old b/c of her disinterest in being social with other kids and hates going to pre-school. Leaving her was OK before the separation but getting out of there now requires her to be pried off of me. She just has some separation issues that hopefully she will outgrow.


Your kids need counseling. Kids do NOT outgrow abandonment issues. It shapes the person they become.


----------



## iheartlife

That is just heartbreaking to hear about the kids. Yes, she's in denial. I imagine both your families (the grandparents and aunts and uncles) are very good people who will not badmouth your stbxw to your children. However, as time goes on it will become painfully clear to the kids precisely how this all played out, that she walked away and destroyed so much.

Have you and your wife looked into professional counseling for how to parent kids through a divorce? They actually have classes like this to encourage the parents to be on the same page. Even if your stbxw won't go, you can.


----------



## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> That is just heartbreaking to hear about the kids. Yes, she's in denial. I imagine both your families (the grandparents and aunts and uncles) are very good people who will not badmouth your stbxw to your children. However, as time goes on it will become painfully clear to the kids precisely how this all played out, that she walked away and destroyed so much.
> 
> Have you and your wife looked into professional counseling for how to parent kids through a divorce? They actually have classes like this to encourage the parents to be on the same page. Even if your stbxw won't go, you can.


Wife and I have been to the class. It seems paradoxical to say she has been good with handling the kids (since she created the problem to begin with), but really I wouldn't ask wife to do 1 thing different than she has related to kids.

Older child is getting counseling via support group at school. Have not done any counseling with the younger. Do 3 year olds do counseling?


----------



## turnera

Sure they do. It looks like a play date, and the psychologists get them to play out their feelings so the doctor can talk about it.


----------



## Shaggy

It might be worth a few dollars just to file a damages lawsuit against the OM for the financial loss he has caused you.

Not specifically alienation of affection, but outright damages.


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> It might be worth a few dollars just to file a damages lawsuit against the OM for the financial loss he has caused you.
> 
> Not specifically alienation of affection, but outright damages.


From what I understand, in any state, you can file a suit for intentional infliction of emotional distress which could include your children.


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## iheartlife

Wondered if you had any updates--I think your divorce was supposed to become final this month.


----------



## wrsteele1

Not sure where to even start. Yes, my divorce finalized on 10/27. I found out a few days later. I am happy again and my kids are doing great. XW wants to be my friend but I refuse. I know from OMW (who I chat with once a month or so on Facebook) that OM is having EA (at least) with someone else.

I refuse to engage XW in anything beyond what is required at least until the breakup with OM, whether that takes a month, a year, or 30 years. I fear he could be around my kids but as far as I an tell he hasn't been yet. Re-engaged some relationship with XW family. They hope XW and I can become friends. I'm polite to the suggestion but it isn't happening.

It's weird to be in the dating world. A serious relationship is impossible for me for I don't know how long. I was only supposed to be married once and I don't ever intend to marry again. I bet lots of people say that, and I reserve the right to change my mind, but I'm steadfast in that conviction at least for now. I can't see myself trusting someone unconditionally or making a complete emotional investment ever again.


----------



## warlock07

Is your wife still seeing the OM? Does she know about his EA too? you should probably expose the OM to HR, now that you are done with the divorce settlements..Your wife will find another job easily.

Also, does her family know the complete truth?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

wrsteele1 said:


> I was only supposed to be married once and *I don't ever intend to marry again. *I bet lots of people say that, and I reserve the right to change my mind, but I'm steadfast in that conviction at least for now.


I feel the same way.

BTW, if you ever get the urge to remarry, just send me half your money - it won't hurt as much as a divorce and you won't mind that we never had sex.


----------



## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> Is your wife still seeing the OM? Does she know about his EA too? you should probably expose the OM to HR, now that you are done with the divorce settlements..Your wife will find another job easily.
> 
> Also, does her family know the complete truth?


The short answer to these questions is that I don't care. But yes she is seeing OM and no she doesn't know about EA.

I don't care if her family knows the complete truth or not. They are her family not mine, and I could give a sh!t if I win the PR battle. Since I don't even know the complete truth, I'm sure they don't. They know enough where I can hold my head high around them.

I know some may say that I should keep fighting to break them up for the sake of my kids, but I feel I did just about everything I could've, and at some point they are my wife's kids too, and I can't be blamed for her continuously poor choices. 

Grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.


----------



## iheartlife

Well, no one who has read your thread can be even remotely surprised that the OM is probably in another EA. I suspect he has several of these women going at the same time in various stages of "friendship." He is a very sad, messed up individual. 

Thank you for the update. I'm glad you've made what peace you can of the situation. Your kids need that so much.

Stop in from time to time and let us know how you and your family are doing.


----------



## walkonmars

Love your outlook.


----------



## Will_Kane

I am sorry things turned out the way they did. It is very sad to me that your ex-wife destroyed a happy family for such a lying piece of scum. I think you are doing the right thing by keeping the kids out of it. They come from both of you and they will derive their value from both of you, so it will be no good if they despise one of you. All they need to know is that it was not their fault in any way and that both of you always will love them no matter what.

Less than a year ago, your wife's affair had not even started and by her own account, everything was fine with your marriage. This is from your first post on May 29:

_My wife of 7 years had an emotional affair with another person, exchanging over 5,000 text messages in less than 2 months. She works with the person and has cut off non-work contact but will not leave her job. Asking her to leave her job would result in termination of my marriage most likely.

*My wife has told the therapist our relationship was strong before the affair *and that it started as "helping a friend through a difficult time" (his sister committed suicide *last December when this started*).​_
Looking back, in hindsight, knowing what you know now, is there anything major that you would have done differently, that you either regret doing or regret not doing?


----------



## wrsteele1

Will_Kane said:


> I am sorry things turned out the way they did. It is very sad to me that your ex-wife destroyed a happy family for such a lying piece of scum. I think you are doing the right thing by keeping the kids out of it. They come from both of you and they will derive their value from both of you, so it will be no good if they despise one of you. All they need to know is that it was not their fault in any way and that both of you always will love them no matter what.
> 
> Less than a year ago, your wife's affair had not even started and by her own account, everything was fine with your marriage. This is from your first post on May 29:
> 
> _My wife of 7 years had an emotional affair with another person, exchanging over 5,000 text messages in less than 2 months. She works with the person and has cut off non-work contact but will not leave her job. Asking her to leave her job would result in termination of my marriage most likely.
> 
> *My wife has told the therapist our relationship was strong before the affair *and that it started as "helping a friend through a difficult time" (his sister committed suicide *last December when this started*).​_
> Looking back, in hindsight, knowing what you know now, is there anything major that you would have done differently, that you either regret doing or regret not doing?


In hindsight, she was lying and this started in November before his sister died. But alas, I'm off point, to your questions. Major things I would differently might include some combination of 1) not marrying her, 2) trusting her a lot less, 3) picked a huge fight from the early warning signs (which I did not know were warning signs at the time), and 4) attacked ferociously at the early signs of trouble (though I never would have suspected cheating in my wildest dreams), and 5) made her quit her job years ago when she came home telling me about sexual humor in the OR, which I never liked.

I suspect that as much as anything else, a toxic work environment contributed to the circumstances that made this possible.


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## warlock07

You are doing great..Good on you for not falling for her "Let us be friends" bullsh!t!! It would be nice karma when she finds out about his other EA. But you proably shouldn't care though. What about your dating life?


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## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> You are doing great..Good on you for not falling for her "Let us be friends" bullsh!t!! It would be nice karma when she finds out about his other EA. But you proably shouldn't care though. What about your dating life?


Is he still with his wife, is that how she knows he is in another emotional affair? I would never be able to resist telling your wife he was playing other women. Hell, I would rub it in.


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## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> Is he still with his wife, is that how she knows he is in another emotional affair? I would never be able to resist telling your wife he was playing other women. Hell, I would rub it in.


OM filed for divorce. OMW takes it hard and is taking a couples R class by herself without OM. Yes that is how I found out, as OMW still investigates. They still sleep in same bed and are in D negotiations just to get him to move to the spare bedroom.

I've insinuated it before, but the problem is W chooses not to believe me. I don't have the motivation to try harder to expose, it is her problem not mine. Sometimes the best revenge/justice is in standing by and watching something self destruct on its own.

I do hope it happens fairly soon though, for numerous reasons. Remarkably, one of the reasons I want it to happen fairly soon is that, while I look forward to watching her karma, I'd rather not see her get hurt TOO bad. It's hard to stop loving someone, and while I've let her go, I still hope she has a good life (without OM).


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## Count of Monte Cristo

chapparal said:


> Is he still with his wife, is that how she knows he is in another emotional affair? I would never be able to resist telling your wife he was playing other women. Hell, I would rub it in.


Patience, dear Chap. He should let her get more and more emotionally invested in this creep before spilling the beans. Then maybe - just maybe - she'll experience a fraction of the hurt that she has put him through.


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## happyman64

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Patience, dear Chap. He should let her get more and more emotionally invested in this creep before spilling the beans. Then maybe - just maybe - she'll experience a fraction of the hurt that she has put him through.


I disagree.

WR should do nothing but observe. As painful as it will be to watch his ExW implode this is a cheater that needs to fall, and to fall hard.

A person that has made terrible choices with no consideration for her marriage, no consideration of her husband nor any consideration for her family, needs to fell the full consequences for her horrible actions.

Karma comes. And sometimes a cheater needs to feel the full effect of karma. This woman will. Not today, not tomorrow but in a few months or a year Karma will show its face.

The best thing WR can do is not be friends with his ExW. 

She does not deserve his friendship nor should he have to be a friend with someone that has gone out of their way to e exceptionally cruel to him.

That would be torture.

I know you still love her WR.

But I believe some people need to learn a hard lesson once in a while.

Let your ExW learn her lesson on her own.

Take care of yourself and protect your kids as best you can.

And do not fear marriage. You have shown exceptional qualities that an equal partner would consider a treasure.

You my man will be great in time.

HM64


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## wrsteele1

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Patience, dear Chap. He should let her get more and more emotionally invested in this creep before spilling the beans. Then maybe - just maybe - she'll experience a fraction of the hurt that she has put him through.


Right now I can hardly look her in the eye, because I know she feels no true remorse. She may be sorry people got hurt, but she has no idea the damage she actually did and feels no true remorse. Perhaps, if she did experience a fraction of that pain, she would realize how badly she screwed up, have some sense of the damage she did, and feel actual remorse. Then, and only then, would I begin to look at her with respect again.

And since she is the mother of my kids, I would prefer to respect her. So yes, I'm looking forward to her crashing and crashing hard. But not from vengence, but rather because that is what has to happen for her to remove from the "fog" (hate that concept since it's cliche, however it is true), and only after she completely and fully exits that fog will I be able to a) go to parent teacher conferences with her in partnership for the kids, b) stand her presence at my girls softball games, c) enter her house when I drop the kids off, d) say something nice about her when her name comes up with my family and friends, etc.

I do still love her, but do not misunderstand, I have let her go (completely and finally and without regret).


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## wrsteele1

warlock07 said:


> You are doing great..Good on you for not falling for her "Let us be friends" bullsh!t!! It would be nice karma when she finds out about his other EA. But you proably shouldn't care though. What about your dating life?


She hasn't actually said "lets be friends." She just invites herself in and stays 10-15 minutes when she drops the girls off, seems to want me to come in when I drop at her house, goes out of her way to do me small favors, talks to me like a person, every now and then I'm exceptionally mean to her about something that irrates me and she seems to be sorry that she irritated me, and she doesn't get upset that I'm mean to her. She forgives me immediately and is still nice. She has helped the girls buy me a Christmas present already (which they told me of course). When she had the girls on Halloween she made it a point to go trick or treating in my neighborhood and asked if I want to come with, she easily conceded letting me have the girls on Christmas Day when we both wanted them, etc. etc. etc. etc. She answers the phone every time I call without exception. She would talk to me seemingly forever if I didn't make it a point to terminate conversation. So she hasn't said "lets be friends" but her actions are clear. However, as I've said, I have ZERO interest in being friends with my wife (ex-wife, hard to call her that). I appreciate some of what she is doing, but that shouldn't be misconstrued as wanting to be friends.


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## iheartlife

happyman64 said:


> A person that has made terrible choices with no consideration for her marriage, no consideration of her husband nor any consideration for her family, needs to fell the full consequences for her horrible actions.


I agree.

This is a woman who essentially broke up her family because she got some butterflies (or tingles) from a boss who made ribald jokes at work. A man who "courted" her by whisking her off to HER car in the hospital parking lot. She mistook the feelings of "being in love" as some sort of signal from the universe that she was meant to be with this train-wreck of a man. There is little doubt in my mind that the universe has another message in mind. But at such a terrible, terrible cost.


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## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> Is he still with his wife, is that how she knows he is in another emotional affair? I would never be able to resist telling your wife he was playing other women. Hell, I would rub it in.


The best way I could describe my dating life would be to say "it's complicated."

Since I don't even know what's going on with it, it's hard to tell you. There is a girl who is quite awesome. Super nice, good looking, never married, no kids, great family. She would happily meet my kids if I were to let her, she is interested in them when I talk about them. She lives 180 miles away and I've known her about 10 years, mostly as a friendly acquaintance. I talk to her about twice a week, see her one weekend per month, and we have fun when we're together. I've been totally up front and honest about where I am in life and how I don't have a timetable for a committed relationship. HOWEVER, although she hasn't brought it up for a couple months, I sense that she is getting attached and wants a relationship. So I am torn about whether to have another "this is where I'm at conversation" or perhaps to let her go as the "best thing for her." Problem is, I do like her, and I don't want to let her go. However, there is no committed relationship in my future for (I would think) 1 year minimum.

A couple other girls I know are interested as well, but frankly I have been so busy with work (10-14 hour days, 5-7 days per week since October 1), plus the fact that I don't want to hurt this other girl, has caused me to keep the masses at arms length, HA!

Plus, for the most part I find myself unable to flirt with girls I actually like. Reason: I'm not very "emotionally available" and so the idea of flirting feels painful (fear success but has no future).

Also, on some level, I find fault in everybody.

I predict a long bachelorhood for me. The only two girls I need and trust already live with me in the bunkbeds down the hall.


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## river rat

wrsteele1 said:


> Not sure where to even start. Yes, my divorce finalized on 10/27. I found out a few days later. I am happy again and my kids are doing great. XW wants to be my friend but I refuse. I know from OMW (who I chat with once a month or so on Facebook) that OM is having EA (at least) with someone else.
> 
> I refuse to engage XW in anything beyond what is required at least until the breakup with OM, whether that takes a month, a year, or 30 years. I fear he could be around my kids but as far as I an tell he hasn't been yet. Re-engaged some relationship with XW family. They hope XW and I can become friends. I'm polite to the suggestion but it isn't happening.
> 
> It's weird to be in the dating world. A serious relationship is impossible for me for I don't know how long. I was only supposed to be married once and I don't ever intend to marry again. I bet lots of people say that, and I reserve the right to change my mind, but I'm steadfast in that conviction at least for now. I can't see myself trusting someone unconditionally or making a complete emotional investment ever again.


Steele ( I modified your name deliberately), I'm glad to see that your life is on a good track. As far as future relationships, I think you have to rethink your view of what it is to trust someone else. David Richo, in his book "The Five Things You Cannot Change", lists one of those things as "people are not loving and loyal all the time." Not you, not me, none of us. Just a crappy fact of the human condition. I think that as you move forward and find trust in yourself that you will be able to accept others for what they are, warts and all. Trust in yourself that you can deal with it, as you have shown throughout this entire ordeal. Good luck to you, friend.


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## tom67

Nothing wrong with some fwb relationships for you now no need to get serious.That's what I'm doing 2 years out.


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## Acabado

Great update, sounds you are in a good place.

I love the way you look at this. No "friends" untill OM is completely out of the picture. But I'd expect more. She needs to "understand" (once OM is out of the picture) the reality of the damage she inflicted and express it to you in a way you believve she "got it". I don't thinks there's a way for her to reach out this realization unless she really get burned by OM. Then and only then she can possibly stay alone with her self for a while and evaluate her decisions. Still there's no garantee she "get" a thing even things with end once way or another.


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## Chaparral

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Patience, dear Chap. He should let her get more and more emotionally invested in this creep before spilling the beans. Then maybe - just maybe - she'll experience a fraction of the hurt that she has put him through.


My personal philosophy is to help karma along the way, as in greasing the skids. My favorite statistic is the failure rate of relationships born of adultery.


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## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> She hasn't actually said "lets be friends." She just invites herself in and stays 10-15 minutes when she drops the girls off, seems to want me to come in when I drop at her house, goes out of her way to do me small favors, talks to me like a person, every now and then I'm exceptionally mean to her about something that irrates me and she seems to be sorry that she irritated me, and she doesn't get upset that I'm mean to her. She forgives me immediately and is still nice. She has helped the girls buy me a Christmas present already (which they told me of course). When she had the girls on Halloween she made it a point to go trick or treating in my neighborhood and asked if I want to come with, she easily conceded letting me have the girls on Christmas Day when we both wanted them, etc. etc. etc. etc. She answers the phone every time I call without exception. She would talk to me seemingly forever if I didn't make it a point to terminate conversation. So she hasn't said "lets be friends" but her actions are clear. However, as I've said, I have ZERO interest in being friends with my wife (ex-wife, hard to call her that). I appreciate some of what she is doing, but that shouldn't be misconstrued as wanting to be friends.


Holy smoke, have you forgotten, a vampire cannot come into your house unless you invite them? Plus they use mind tricks to get you to get you to let them in. Put a cross on your door.


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## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> I agree.
> 
> This is a woman who essentially broke up her family because she got some butterflies (or tingles) from a boss who made ribald jokes at work. A man who "courted" her by whisking her off to HER car in the hospital parking lot. She mistook the feelings of "being in love" as some sort of signal from the universe that she was meant to be with this train-wreck of a man. There is little doubt in my mind that the universe has another message in mind. But at such a terrible, terrible cost.


Yes, terrible cost. But worse things could've happened. My bro is in military, I pray for his safety. I have my health as do my kids. I am thankful for what I do have, nobody should feel sorry for me or my family. We stick together and we're not just fine, we are well, great even.


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## iheartlife

wrsteele1 said:


> Yes, terrible cost. But worse things could've happened. My bro is in military, I pray for his safety. I have my health as do my kids. I am thankful for what I do have, nobody should feel sorry for me or my family. We stick together and we're not just fine, we are well, great even.


I'm very glad to hear it. But it's still hard for me to shake the image you gave of his little daughter vomiting every night over the stress and anxiety he's causing his family. You'd think someone whose sister succumbed to the tough things in life at a fairly young age would think about how his behavior is affecting his kids. No matter what gloss is put on it, they've made some appalling choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

wrsteele1 said:


> Yes, terrible cost. But worse things could've happened. My bro is in military, I pray for his safety. I have my health as do my kids. I am thankful for what I do have, nobody should feel sorry for me or my family. We stick together and we're not just fine, we are well, great even.


Ah WR. You have come a long way.

And if you like the girl keep her. And if she thinks you are worth it she will stay.

Just keep being honest with her and the masses......

And the next time you see your ExW just spill some holy water on her to see if she burns.....Lol


And she should be nice to you till the day she dies. Because she played very dirty and she knows it.


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## wrsteele1

Thanks, Warlock, for caring to check in. That was about 3 weeks ago, and I was fortunate to be on a white, sandy beach in Mexico when I read your note! Been meaning to check in since, and only now getting around to it.

First, thank you to the many of you that helped me through my darkest days. Having a free resource like TAM and yourselves was a tremendous blessing. I would say it helped me more than you could ever know, except that I know you do know.

My kids are doing great. My oldest lost her first tooth last weekend, and my youngest is pumped up for her fourth birthday party at Chucke Cheese tomorrow. I'm looking forward to coaching their coach pitch softball team this Spring. A divorce will always be a part of their story, but they are great kids.

I've kept off the 25 lbs I lost and I'm probably in the best physical shape of my life. Still working out 3-4 days a week and trying to eat healthy. Just got a tax return and I'm using part of it to hire someone to deep clean my house, lol! I'm clean for a man but sure could use a woman's touch around the place! Since a new Mrs. Steele is definitely out of the question, I'm just going to have to pay a friend to help me out.

I remember when this first happened and I went to a support group at church within 2 days of Dday 1. I remember how some of the people at group were divorced years ago, and how I thought "that is definitely not going to be me. I'm not grieving for years. I got to spend some time getting my sh!t together then I'm going to be fine." Well, I definitely didn't understand at that point the difficult path that was going to lie ahead.

I'm doing well, but my idea of what love and marriage are supposed to be are forever altered. I have trust issues, and for the first time in my life there is a person on this earth that I genuinely dislike (OM), and while it might inhibit my healing, I have no desire to let that go. In my personal opinion, a man who sleeps with another mans wife should be shot. Not in anger, but in justice. I just come from a family with deep rooted values and in my world that's just not OK.

My XW is disrespectful to me, but not on purpose. In fact, she tries to be respectful but she just isn't a good person. Fortunately, she is a loving and hard working mother, so her less desirable traits will hopefully not prevent us from raising great kids.

Wow, as I write this I'm imagining you might think I have a lot of venom! Well, fortunately, I only have to see XW 5 minutes every other week, and I never have to see OM. So I don't carry that venom with me, save the rare instances when I have to think or talk about them. Most of the time I live in my own world with either just myself or my kids. And, by the grace of God, I have the best friends and family on Earth. And I'm not just saying that, either. I literally do have the best friends and family on Earth.


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## wrsteele1

It's roughly 11 months past Dday, 8.5 months past ex moving out, and 4 months past divorce.

I have a lot of cool opportunities to do stuff, so I am blessed with that. In some ways I have more opportunities to do certain things BECAUSE I'm divorced. I definitely have an independence and self sufficiency I never could have had if not for this situation.

This is admittedly a terrible analogy (hope not to offend any military folk) but in a way I kind of feel like a military person after they've had combat experience. I have gained skills that make me more proficient at dealing with tough situations, but I gained those skills at a difficult price, and I better liked the naive version of myself that didn't possess that life experience.


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## Will_Kane

wrsteele1 said:


> It's roughly 11 months past Dday, 8.5 months past ex moving out, and 4 months past divorce.
> 
> I have a lot of cool opportunities to do stuff, so I am blessed with that. In some ways I have more opportunities to do certain things BECAUSE I'm divorced. I definitely have an independence and self sufficiency I never could have had if not for this situation.
> 
> This is admittedly a terrible analogy (hope not to offend any military folk) but in a way I kind of feel like a military person after they've had combat experience. I have gained skills that make me more proficient at dealing with tough situations, but I gained those skills at a difficult price, and I better liked the naive version of myself that didn't possess that life experience.


You sound like you are doing very well. Only four months past divorce, you sound like you are doing all the right things. There are good women out there who don't cheat. Your experience hopefully will make it easier for you to find one. Time heals all wounds. I would recommend staying away from a romantic relationship for at least a year after the divorce is final. Then, when the time comes, be picky.

Coaching the kids is great. Being with family and friends who love you and support you is the best medicine.


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## happyman64

Good to hear your update WR.

It sounds like you surrounded yourself with your family and friends.

And I get your feelings about the OM. I still check out a few of the OM to this very day.

And their lives have not gotten any better after all these years.

Funny, this does not make me happy because I feel bad for them.

Stay on the right track, focus on you, your kids and the dog!

And stay in touch.....


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## Chaparral

Did you ever consider putting Dr. Love on cheaterville.com? Posters here that do that really relish the experience.

Good luck and prayers

Chap


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## iheartlife

Thanks for the update! It's beyond understandable that you would have trust issues when she blatantly lied to both you and the marriage counselor about the nature of her "friendship". You might still be in the dark if you had not had the courage to verify.

Glad to hear your kids are doing so well. I hope that this vile man is not in their lives in any way. What's the deal with his long-suffering wife? Has she divorced him yet? There is a special place in hell for people like him, no doubt about it.

Things do get better, they truly do. Keep on your path.


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## wrsteele1

chapparal said:


> Did you ever consider putting Dr. Love on cheaterville.com? Posters here that do that really relish the experience.
> 
> Good luck and prayers
> 
> Chap


Yes I considered it, and I decided not to. He's not worth the energy.


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## wrsteele1

iheartlife said:


> Thanks for the update! It's beyond understandable that you would have trust issues when she blatantly lied to both you and the marriage counselor about the nature of her "friendship". You might still be in the dark if you had not had the courage to verify.
> 
> Glad to hear your kids are doing so well. I hope that this vile man is not in their lives in any way. What's the deal with his long-suffering wife? Has she divorced him yet? There is a special place in hell for people like him, no doubt about it.
> 
> Things do get better, they truly do. Keep on your path.


They are undergoing a divorce more or less against her will. But she finally moved out and got herself a job. She has a long healing path ahead of her I think. I expect their divorce to be a long process. Wouldn't trade places with her, that's for sure.

He will be in my kids life in some way all too soon I expect. I've just kind of come to accept that there is nothing I can do about it and I don't want to hold that anger or fear. Unfortunately, XW is their parent too and I can't protect kids from their own mom, who is by any neutral account trying to be a good mom, despite her own personal failures. I've told XW to keep him away from me though. Any time I see him there is danger of a fight.


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## Chaparral

wrsteele1 said:


> Yes I considered it, and I decided not to. He's not worth the energy.


I must have a lot more energy than you HEHE. After i was done with him, every time he thought of me or my family he would have to reach for the Rolaids.

My favorite poster kept up with the principle that was banging his teacher wife. He ran him out of town with exposure. There after, every time he moves to a new district, he lets the school board know what he has done.

Another current poster exposed the lawyer invloved with his wife, he no longer practices law.

Letting cheaters go without consequences just encourages more of the same.

I'm sure the good doctor appreciates your hands off policy among other things.


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## keko

How much energy is involved in typing a few sentences on cheaterville?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH

Guess you're no longer trapped, being free feels good doesn't it.


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## wrsteele1

keko said:


> How much energy is involved in typing a few sentences on cheaterville?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok... Fair. I have the energy but I don't want to. I feel whining on the Internet would reflect more on me than it would him. If I were going to do something, it would be kick the **** out of him, not write something, and since I don't want to go to jail, that seems like a bad idea.


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## wrsteele1

CH said:


> Guess you're no longer trapped, being free feels good doesn't it.


Well, better to be free than listening to your wife on tape banging another dude in her car. But I can't say I love being divorced either. That definitely wasn't in the plan.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

wrsteele1 said:


> Ok... Fair. I have the energy but I don't want to. I feel whining on the Internet would reflect more on me than it would him. If I were going to do something, it would be kick the **** out of him, not write something, and since I don't want to go to jail, that seems like a bad idea.


Looks like the good doctor got away scott free.

I appreciate what you're saying but the bastard might one day be stepDAD to your kids.

Me personally, I would want to ruin him. But that's just me.


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## wrsteele1

I can see how this is turning into a blame the victim forum. Well, count me out.


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## Will_Kane

wrsteele1 said:


> I'm doing well, but my idea of what love and marriage are supposed to be are forever altered. I have trust issues, and for the first time in my life there is a person on this earth that I genuinely dislike (OM), and while it might inhibit my healing, I have no desire to let that go. *In my personal opinion, a man who sleeps with another mans wife should be shot. Not in anger, but in justice. I just come from a family with deep rooted values and in my world that's just not OK.*


Everybody feels like this. We all would like to see OM get what he deserves.


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## Will_Kane

wrsteele1 said:


> *My XW is disrespectful to me, but not on purpose. In fact, she tries to be respectful but she just isn't a good person.* Fortunately, she is a loving and hard working mother, so her less desirable traits will hopefully not prevent us from raising great kids.


What is your ex-wife doing that's disrespectful? Still bringing OM with her to places where she will see you and the family?


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## Chaparral

Not at all. I yhink you are just the victim of modern, "progressive" thought. When I grew up, a man's honor was one of the most important things to him. 8bviously, in this feminized society, that is no longer the case.

If I were in your position, thebg9od doctor would never think of me eith a smirk or a smile on his face. It would be a scar, mentally or even physically.

He has damaged you, your wife, most importantly your children, his wife, his family and he has proved yet again that nurses belong to doctors to do with as they wish. There is a reason that health care providers are at the top of the adultery lists and that's because people that have been hurt sit back and take it.

A simple thing like cheaterville, that has been used very satisfactorily according to posters that have used it, can tell every soul that googles doctor feelgood'sname what a real peace of trash he is. How that would make the roynds at the hospital. Instead, he is going to reap your and your kids benefits and enjoy the fruits of your labors. He also gets to enjoy your children half the time as his own.

Good luck and prayers

Chap


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## Doyle

Hi steele ive read your thread but i've never posted because you were geting such good advice anyway.

I just wanted to wish you well and hope you update from time to time as I think ultimately your story is inspirational, mostly about how someone can deal with this and not end up leting bitterness ruin them.

Good luck you deserve it.


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## barbados

wrsteele1 said:


> In my personal opinion, a man who sleeps with another mans wife should be shot. Not in anger, but in justice.


:iagree:


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## Count of Monte Cristo

wrsteele1 said:


> I can see how this is turning into a blame the victim forum. Well, count me out.


I'm not blaming you.

On the contrary, I'm blaming Dr. Feelgood.


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