# Question for women



## English1979 (Nov 19, 2015)

My wife says she loves me, fancies me, is happy with all aspects of our marriage and enjoys the sex that we have. So why not do it more often then?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
what does she say when you ask her?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

English1979 said:


> So why not do it more often then?


Need WAY more info.

How long have you been married?
Children? If so, ages?
How long did you date before marriage?
How was your sex life before marriage?
Does she work? If so, nature of job and how many hours per week?
Do you help with housework or does she do most of it?
Are you still totally attracted to her?
Does she still seem attracted to you? (Never mind what she _says_)
Are you equally happy with all facets of your marriage (besides sex)?
Do you show her plenty of affection without it always leading to sex?
Do you spend a lot of time together doing enjoyable activities?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

English1979 said:


> My wife says she loves me, fancies me, is happy with all aspects of our marriage and enjoys the sex that we have. So why not do it more often then?


Because she's having as _much _sex as she _enjoys _having. Any more would not necessarily be better because it might be too much.

Consider food. A great meal is a great meal, and thoroughly enjoyable. That doesn't mean they want another meal again right after they finished eating - it would be too much food and they're already stuffed.

Just because something is great when it happens doesn't mean people want it all the time. Some people put a lot of themselves into sex...it's very personal...and trying to do it more often means the quality of the sex wanes. And then sex goes from great to blah to none.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Easy answer, she wants to control the frequency and in so doing, have a way to control you.


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## English1979 (Nov 19, 2015)

We have 2 kids 2 and 4 both work full time about 50/50 on the housework. I genuinely think that she is happy, I still find her really attractive I think she feels the same but she's not as expressive. I want to believe that it's just due not needing it as much and tiredness or is there always more to it?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> Easy answer, she wants to control the frequency and in so doing, have a way to control you.


Um, ok. I didn't realize having your own preference for frequency translated to control. 

So maybe the fact that he wants to push for more amounts to him controlling her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Um, ok. I didn't realize having your own preference for frequency translated to control.
> 
> So maybe the fact that he wants to push for more amounts to him controlling her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure, he's trying. But the LD controls ultimately.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> Easy answer, she wants to control the frequency and in so doing, have a way to control you.


Or she just doesn't desireit as often as he does. Nothing wrong that. Or with what he desires. Human beings are allowed to differ on some things.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

If she loves you then she may be able to compromise. Have you discussed this with her and does she understand how you feel? It may be situational, your lives sound very busy. You can find a way to free up time so that you have more to spend with each other.


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## English1979 (Nov 19, 2015)

Yeah we are busy and she is generally more fatigued than me. We've talked about it and she always says she is just not as sexual as me and always really tired. Half the battle is to believe it and not to get paranoid thinking it's another reason.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Trenton said:


> Does your wife still do this to you at times?


Believe her. Your drives are mismatched.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Few couples are a sexual match over a long term. Hence at some point one or the other is going to want "it" more than the other. If you're getting it twice a week, you probably need to quit complaining. Nagging or worse, begging, for more sex ain't going to get you any more and will make you look weak.


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## James7936 (Nov 21, 2015)

English1979,

Does your woman have a high healthy self-esteem? (ie, great relationship with her father)


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

Fatigue is genuinely a mood killer for women. And with two small children and a full time job, fatigue is inevitable.

Something to keep in mind - many men want sex to help them relax. But many women need to relax before they want sex.

Instead of pressuring her for sex (which will only make things worse), help lighten her load for a bit. I've got kids about the same age as yours, and a simple gesture of "Let me take the kids to the park for a while... you don't need to clean or anything, just take some time for yourself" makes me feel very loved. Make her feel loved and appreciated, and she may want sex more often. 

Don't work towards a goal of more sex. Work towards making your wife feel genuinely loved and cherished. If she really is happy and attracted to you, then the sex will naturally follow.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

anonmd said:


> Sure, he's trying. But the LD controls ultimately.


So what? LD's can't win no matter what they do.....if they make effort just to make their spouse happy HD spouse is b!tching that it's not good enough and they want to be wanted and if they don't they're selfish and controlling.

HD's are never called controlling, they're always the poor victims whose needs aren't being met.

It's always assumed that LD's should change to suit HD, but never that HD should change to suit LD. Why?

The fact is that people have different preferences; if I didn't have a couple of days to recharge I'd never enjoy sex at all. If I had a hb who badgered me for sex more often to where I couldn't enjoy any of it that would make him extremely selfish. We're all entitled to some enjoyment.

That's called compromise and it's a chunk of what makes a marriage successful.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> HD's are never called controlling, they're always the poor victims whose needs aren't being met.
> 
> It's always assumed that LD's should change to suit HD, but never that HD should change to suit LD. Why?
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more!

Both partners' drives need to be considered and meet somewhere in the middle.

As a side note, For us HD folks -- we feel like we've won the lottery, literally hit the JACKPOT -- when we find an HD partner who we are completely compatible with, both in and out of the bedroom!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> So what? LD's can't win no matter what they do.....if they make effort just to make their spouse happy HD spouse is b!tching that it's not good enough and they want to be wanted and if they don't they're selfish and controlling.
> 
> HD's are never called controlling, they're always the poor victims whose needs aren't being met.
> 
> ...


But when your LD spouse comes up with reasons not to have sex every weekend and you're crawling out of your skin because you don't remember the last time you felt desired you DO feel like a victim.


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## 2020hindsight (Nov 3, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> But when your LD spouse comes up with reasons not to have sex every weekend and you're crawling out of your skin because you don't remember the last time you felt desired you DO feel like a victim.


But is the feeling any MORE victim-ish than the feeling of having your HD spouse badger you all the time for sex, so that you find yourself having sex way more than you want to, and you're "crawling out of your skin" because having sex constantly when you don't want to makes you feel like a broken sex robot?

Possibly not.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> So what? LD's can't win no matter what they do.....if they make effort just to make their spouse happy HD spouse is b!tching that it's not good enough and they want to be wanted and if they don't they're selfish and controlling.
> 
> HD's are never called controlling, they're always the poor victims whose needs aren't being met.
> 
> ...


You realize I did agree with you?

There are only three possibilities here. 

LD controls to a low level

HD controls to a high level, which won't last long, before you are back to choice 1

Both compromise on something in the middle, great. LD is still controlling.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I find these kinds of threads astonishing. More is not always better.

If the OP liked to drink a glass of wine with his wife at dinner and they both liked it, would he ask why she didn't want to drink her own bottle at dinner so he could have his own bottle of wine at dinner? Sometimes, enough is not as much as can be consumed.

As D. Schnarch says in in his book the Passionate Marriage there is not a "right" about of sex in a marriage. It is about a compromise that the two people in the marriage make and renegotiate as they grow and change over time. 

There was a famous couple who were interviewed by a Seattle newspaper reporter maybe a decade ago. They loved each other very much and felt that more sex was better, so they set off to "join the 700 sex club." They set a goal for themselves of having sex with each other 700 times in a 365 day year. When one was ready for sex he/she would ask the other if they wanted to go to Tukwila, which is a local community south of Seattle. This way if they were overhead, people wouldn't completely know what they were talking about, but that changed after the newspaper interview.

Few people would look at this couple and say that they should have sex more often than that. Personally I would be afraid of getting calluses or being rubbed raw.
:surprise:

Again, the key is finding a compromise that works for the couple and that each can comfortably live with. That is the key to any marriage, and any aspect of marriage, whether how much ice cream to eat for dessert, how much wine to drink, or how much sex to have. Good luck to the OP


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

2020hindsight said:


> But is the feeling any MORE victim-ish than the feeling of having your HD spouse badger you all the time for sex, so that you find yourself having sex way more than you want to, and you're "crawling out of your skin" because having sex constantly when you don't want to makes you feel like a broken sex robot?
> 
> Possibly not.


You have a right to say no. However, do you say no to allowing yourself to be aroused? Let's say you become aroused after a warm up period and enjoy the sexual encounter as much as your husband. Maybe it's not about sex but other things. 

If you felt good about your relationship with your husband wouldn't you want to get warmed up and have fun and be close to him? If you are unhappy with him, you would not want to take the trouble, right. 

No one should feel like a victim or that they are being controlled. Having sex is what people do, it's normal. I don't think it's normal to expect that serious and persistent unresolved issues will not effect the desire for sex.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> Again, the key is finding a compromise that works for the couple and that each can comfortably live with. That is the key to any marriage, and any aspect of marriage, whether how much ice cream to eat for dessert, how much wine to drink, or how much sex to have. Good luck to the OP


Here is the thing with "compromises" they sound fantastic when you have that nice sweet caring conversation but they don't always happen. 

Our compromise was sex once a week but in reality it's only once a month because there is always an excuse when the weekends come up. 

Sex is a primal hunger...either you have it or you don't. 

And I've got it.


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## English1979 (Nov 19, 2015)

Bang on. I think when you agree on once a week for example. Your thinking at least once a week she's thinking at the most.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

anonmd said:


> There are only three possibilities here.
> 
> LD controls to a low level
> 
> ...


I think in mismatched cases like this, both partners feel the other is controlling frequency. When I was the LD, and we compromised in the middle, I still felt my HD partner was controlling frequency, because he was the reason we were doing it as often as we were. If I was controlling it, there would have been less. But I think he would say I was controlling frequency because if it were up to him, we'd be doing it more.

Maybe you can only say one partner is in control of frequency when there is no compromise, like in your first two possibilities. The point of compromise is that both partners have a say.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

When you compromised in the middle did you sometimes do more and sometimes do less? 

Or did you sometimes do what you agreed to and sometimes less but never more?


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

For us, sometimes more, never less unless I was physically unable.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Then I'll agree with you


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## NorCalMan (Dec 14, 2011)

Once a week sounds fabulous to many of us who don't get any at all.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

NorCalMan said:


> Once a week sounds fabulous to many of us who don't get any at all.


But how much fun would it be to have sex with someone who has so many issues that they always seem to be acting like they're doing you a favor to have sex? Or, more so they seem to want it because they are always touching you in a sexual manner but sex time never happens?

Maybe men can deal with this better than women. But as a woman it really messes with my ego. This is how my cyber affairs started. My husband neglected our sex life and I thought it might be OK to flirt with men. I told him my feelings repeatedly about the situation prior to flirting with men. But he continued to pay no attention. I'm very attractive so I knew if I posted a picture I'd get what I wanted. But that became a big mess and now I'm back to square one. And who the fu*k want's to nag someone to have sex with you??? Not exactly good foreplay.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Heatherknows said:


> But how much fun would it be to have sex with someone who has so many issues that they always seem to be acting like they're doing you a favor to have sex? Or, more so they seem to want it because they are always touching you in a sexual manner but sex time never happens?
> 
> *Maybe men can deal with this better than women. But as a woman it really messes with my ego*. This is how my cyber affairs started. My husband neglected our sex life and I thought it might be OK to flirt with men. I told him my feelings repeatedly about the situation prior to flirting with men. But he continued to pay no attention. I'm very attractive so I knew if I posted a picture I'd get what I wanted. But that became a big mess and now I'm back to square one. And who the fu*k want's to nag someone to have sex with you??? Not exactly good foreplay.


I think the root of this is found in inaccurate generalizations. We're told that men always want sex, think about it every 17 seconds, will sleep with anything that walks. We're also told that getting a woman to have sex with us is some sort of accomplishment, hence the term "getting lucky" My personal experience has been pretty much the exact opposite of conventional wisdom, and I tend to believe my own experience over the generalizations.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> I think the root of this is found in inaccurate generalizations. We're told that men always want sex, think about it every 17 seconds, will sleep with anything that walks. We're also told that getting a woman to have sex with us is some sort of accomplishment, hence the term "getting lucky" My personal experience has been pretty much the exact opposite of conventional wisdom, and I tend to believe my own experience over the generalizations.


You've found that women want sex more than men??? IDK. When I had my pictures posted I had A LOT of men flirting with me and they were pretty sexually aggressive.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

anonmd said:


> Sure, he's trying. But the LD controls ultimately.


Yes, absolutely, the one who wants the least amount controls the amount that one who wants more actually gets. The one who wants more doesn't control the rate. It doesn't work the other way around. So, in my mind, that's control.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Heatherknows said:


> *You've found that women want sex more than men???* IDK. When I had my pictures posted I had A LOT of men flirting with me and they were pretty sexually aggressive.


At least as much, yes.

I suspect it wasn't simply your pictures that drew the flirting, it is likely that your persona, which was admittedly looking for validation, reinforced the images.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> At least as much, yes.
> 
> I suspect it wasn't simply your pictures that drew the flirting, it is likely that your persona, which was admittedly looking for validation, reinforced the images.


Not to mention, guys who are seeing photos of women already have sex in mind. The other guys aren't looking and won't say anything. Self-selecting sample.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> At least as much, yes.
> 
> I suspect it wasn't simply your pictures that drew the flirting, it is likely that your persona, which was admittedly looking for validation, reinforced the images.


Probably. But that wasn't the point. You suggested that women want sex more than men and I indicated that although my husband is LD most men aren't.

Also, my sexual needs are pretty tame, once a week with a passionate sexual partner is all I need..or want..I guess I don't need it because I've been surviving with sex maybe five times a year for a long, long time.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Heatherknows said:


> Probably. But that wasn't the point. You suggested that women want sex more than men and I indicated that although my husband is LD most men aren't.
> 
> Also, my sexual needs are pretty tame, once a week with a passionate sexual partner is all I need.


Conventional wisdom is that men want sex more than women. My experience is that women want sex just as much as men. Generally speaking.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> Conventional wisdom is that men want sex more than women. My experience is that women want sex just as much as men. Generally speaking.


OK...well...then that's good. I'm normal. :grin2:


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

English1979 said:


> Yeah we are busy and she is generally more fatigued than me. We've talked about it and she always says she is just not as sexual as me and always really tired. Half the battle is to believe it and not to get paranoid thinking it's another reason.


How often *do *you make love?

Women in general do not desire as much sex as men because we don't have as much testosterone. Think of it like hunger as someone above said. Something can taste delicious, but if you're full, you simply don't desire it at the time. It may be that simple.

But sexual desire in women also come from a more emotional place rather than testosterone. So if you wife is unhappy with aspects of your marriage, he sexual desire may be quick to go.

If she knows you'd like sex more often and that's important to you, and she's genuinely happy in the marriage and truly enjoying the sex, I'd think she'd be willing to do it more often - or at least pleasure you or do a quickie when you're hungry for it and she's not.

How much time are you spending together in intimate conversation and just being close and affectionate with each other? That is the fuel for most women's engines. If you're both busy and tired and just raising kids and working and not having good 1 on 1 time, you lose intimacy and with that a woman usually loses her desire for sex.

Also, how is the sex? Is it really good for her or is she just being polite? Are you doing things she likes the way she likes? Are you making sure she's satisfied when she wants to be and not working and working and working to satisfy her when she's said she's content and doesn't need an orgasm tonight? Just little things - like I'd like to make love in dim light or by candle light and my husband likes bright light which is not romantic to me at all. Every single time he wants to have it his way with the bright lighting. OK. Whatever. But I don't enjoy it as much as I would if it was more romantic to me sometimes, and I'm in no hurry.

Also, when do you approach her for sex? Men can go from another activity to sex instantly. Most women need to warm up, ease into the idea. My H will pass me in the hallway when I'm in the middle of things and say "do you feel like making love..." I'm like HUH? Now? WTF? Um no..... But if he just took a couple minutes and hugged me, rubbed my shoulders, kissed me - got my mind shifted away from whatever else I was focusing on, I'd be much more receptive.

As a woman with a lower sex drive than my husband, I have no problem giving him a BJ or something to satisfy him that doesn't take too long inbetween the full on sex "events." I love him so I enjoy making him happy, and he doesn't take it personally that I don't want sex as often as he does. If your wife is truly happy in the marriage and understands you need it more often, I'd think she'd happily do this. It would take the pressure off her to have full on sex more often than she wants and make you a happier husband.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> As a side note, For us HD folks -- we feel like we've won the lottery, literally hit the JACKPOT -- when we find an HD partner who we are completely compatible with, both in and out of the bedroom!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Same with LD - though maybe it's more a feeling of winning a stipend or vacation. Not as exciting as a huge jackpot perhaps but something that fills you with a sense of peace, security, and relaxation. Utter contentment.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> Conventional wisdom is that men want sex more than women. My experience is that women want sex just as much as men. Generally speaking.


It's not just conventional wisdom. It's the result of studies. If you put a testosterone patch on a woman for a few days, she will start to desire sex the way men do.

With that said, certainly there are women who like sex as often as men. And some men who don't want it often. I know when I was young I wanted it all the time. Not so much now (but my dr. did a blood test and is putting me on a tiny bit of testosterone so who knows, that may change soon!) 

The main thing I've noticed affecting my sex drive negatively though is being unhappy in relationships. So (assuming you're a guy) maybe you're just a super great guy/awesome partner and that has drawn out the sex cravings in your partner(s).


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> Here is the thing with "compromises" they sound fantastic when you have that nice sweet caring conversation but they don't always happen....
> 
> Our compromise was sex once a week but in reality it's only once a month because there is always an excuse when the weekends come up.....





Heatherknows said:


> But how much fun would it be to have sex with someone who has so many issues that they always seem to be acting like they're doing you a favor to have sex? *Or, more so they seem to want it because they are always touching you in a sexual manner but sex time never happens?
> *
> Maybe men can deal with this better than women. But as a woman* it really messes with my ego.* This is how *my cyber affairs started. My husband neglected our sex life and I thought it might be OK to flirt with men*. .... But that became a big mess and now I'm back to square one. And who the fu*k want's to *nag someone to have sex with you???* Not exactly good foreplay.





Heatherknows said:


> ....Also, my sexual needs are pretty tame, once a week with a passionate sexual partner is all I need..or want..I guess I don't need it because I've been surviving with sex maybe five times a year for a long, long time.



Let's try this again. 

May I suggest MW Davis book the Sex Starved Wife. Get a copy and read it. MW Davis has a variety of things that you can do to change yourself that changes the dynamic in your marriage. Think of your marriage as a high stakes game of trial and error. You have had a lot of mistakes, learn from then and figure out what works. MW Davis is great at making suggestions on doing 180's (trying something else when what you have been doing doesn't work).

I would recommend two more books for you. The first is Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight. Touch is a primal need and a form of communication, it isn't always about sex. Chapman's book the 5 Languages of Love also helped my wife and me in our sex starved marriage. My primary love language is touch. Touch doesn't even register as a love language with my wife. When I want to say to her that I love her I touch her arm, massage her back etc. When we were in a sex starved marriage she interpreted my reaching out and saying I love you as constantly pawing at her body. You may need to learn the difference between your husband touching you to say "I love you" and I want sex with you. They are not the same thing.

Cyber affairs?!!! Are you certain that Hubby has no lingering resentment or anger toward that and that isn't coloring any of his feelings toward you? 

As the HD person who was in a Sex Starved Marriage, I know what you are saying when you say that nagging for sex is not sexy and is a big hit on the ego. I really do know what you are feeling. However, I also know that in my case I was part of the problem. I had to learn to fix myself, make my wife feel loved and cherished, before she had the comfort and confidence to want to change herself. I had to learn that I couldn't change her and that she wasn't broke We were just in different places in our life in terms of sex and intimacy. Eventually we were able to negotiate a frequency of sex (now twice a week, a lot better than never again (her words) or maybe once every month or so. It took a lot of change on my part in rebuilding her love for me, before she was willing to try to change herself to save our marriage. A sex therapist really helped us after we started the process.

Good luck. Cyber Affairs, could be some emotional baggage you haven't yet settled and contributing to the problem.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> Let's try this again.
> 
> May I suggest MW Davis book the Sex Starved Wife. Get a copy and read it. MW Davis has a variety of things that you can do to change yourself that changes the dynamic in your marriage. Think of your marriage as a high stakes game of trial and error. You have had a lot of mistakes, learn from then and figure out what works. MW Davis is great at making suggestions on doing 180's (trying something else when what you have been doing doesn't work).
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the book recommendations. I did take out "The Sex Starved Wife" read a couple of pages and brought it back to the library. It seemed good. I'll take a look at the others. 

The lack of sex started prior to the cyber affairs so it might be a contributing factor but not the whole problem. I'm getting tired of working on stuff. I just want to enjoy my life already.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

As for those arguing about who has more control in a HD/LD mismatch I would argue that BOTH statements are true:

• HD could control the LD spouse by offering less pressure to have sex in exchange for a certain behavior.
• LD could control the HD spouse by offering more receptiveness for sex in exchange for a certain behavior. 

Unfortunately most of the time for people on this forum the HD thinks he/she can somehow use that control for more sex and the LD thinks he/she can use it for less, and they BOTH end up feeling rather powerless and this has a negative impact on intimacy.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

badsanta said:


> As for those arguing about who has more control in a HD/LD mismatch I would argue that BOTH statements are true:
> 
> • HD could control the LD spouse by offering less pressure to have sex in exchange for a certain behavior.
> • LD could control the HD spouse by offering more receptiveness for sex in exchange for a certain behavior.
> ...


QFT. However there are many more HDs who post here, so we always hear the"I have to do xyz to get them to have sex".


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Some people see sex as an _entitlement_ of marriage. Others see it as a_ privilege_. If we believe that we are entitled to sex…and our spouse sees sex as a privilege, sparks are going to fly. No wonder why so many people are walking around both sexually and emotionally frustrated.

The one who thinks of sex as an entitlement is going to DEMAND sex. They'll see it as more of a requirement; a duty. A responsibility. An "expectation". Something that their spouse "owes" them. 

If we look at sex as a _privilege_, we tend to be a more grateful about it. We don't "expect" it, so we are grateful when our partner is willing to voluntarily give it to us. 

Maybe it's our attitude about sex that needs to change...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's neither a privilege nor an entitlement. It's a component of marriage, as important as any.


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## Christina777 (Nov 13, 2014)

"We have 2 kids 2 and 4 both work full time" It's sounds like she is tired. Make a list of chores and who does them if you want more sex help her more hire a cleaning lady get a sitter do a month trip or date night. Tell her you will do the dishes and clean up and put the kids to bed. My husband says he helps out 50/50 but this means him watching football and me cooking , cleaning washing chores and all he does Is mow the front yard. If he helped me more he would get more. Just HElp her you have two small children. It will get easier as they get older. Especially when they go to school.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

john117 said:


> It's neither a privilege nor an entitlement. It's a component of marriage, as important as any.


A "component" that if missing or "denied" to our partner causes many of us to be very upset. 

Why?

Because we expect sex as a "component" of marriage. We feel entitled to it as a "component" of marriage.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Judging from prevailing attitudes its a gift to be bestowed rather than an integral part of marriage...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

techmom said:


> QFT. However there are many more HDs who post here, so we always hear the"I have to do xyz to get them to have sex".


Also, an HD is trying to get someone else to do something. Whereas an LD is trying to be left alone or have them not do something, so it "seems" like the HD is more "controlling" - but I can see how both are frustrated and both are not satisfying their partner. (IOW, we're all screwed!)


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> Also, an HD is trying to get someone else to do something. Whereas an LD is trying to be left alone or have them not do something, so it "seems" like the HD is more "controlling" - but I can see how both are frustrated and both are not satisfying their partner. (IOW, we're all screwed!)


...or not screwed so to speak.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Vega said:


> Some people see sex as an _entitlement_ of marriage. Others see it as a_ privilege_. If we believe that we are entitled to sex…and our spouse sees sex as a privilege, sparks are going to fly. No wonder why so many people are walking around both sexually and emotionally frustrated.
> 
> The one who thinks of sex as an entitlement is going to DEMAND sex. They'll see it as more of a requirement; a duty. A responsibility. An "expectation". Something that their spouse "owes" them.
> 
> ...


Great post, Vega. 

I think sex as a requirement of marriage is okay if duty sex fits the requirement. If you want actual passion, you have to inspire it. 

It is thinking you are entitled to passionate sex without inspiring it that seems controlling to me. 

And if being able to inspire it seems impossible, then it is likely a sexual mismatch. Divorce may need to be on the table.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

jld said:


> Great post, Vega.
> 
> I think sex as a requirement of marriage is okay if duty sex fits the requirement. If you want actual passion, you have to inspire it.
> 
> ...


Inspiring passion when you've known someone for 20 years is difficult.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Heatherknows said:


> Inspiring passion when you've known someone for 20 years is difficult.


Especially if that passion was never truly there to begin with.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

techmom said:


> QFT. However there are many more HDs who post here, so we always hear the"I have to do xyz to get them to have sex".


As would LD spouses also feel "I need to do xyz to get them to back off and stop being so sexually needy." Thus the abundance of spouses that will give in with compassionate pity sex and eventually start feeling used.

I would argue that if one person needs sex so much that they can pressure their spouse to have sex when they would rather not out of compassion, that one of the two is being a bully and controlling the other. Sad to say most people in this situation never see themselves as the bully and accuse the other of being inadequate. 

Odds are an HD person will follow up with a question needing clarification as to who is being the bully...

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Badsanta, I think I just said it last week, but I will say it again: You make brilliant posts. I hope the folks who most need them are listening.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Vega said:


> Some people see sex as an _entitlement_ of marriage. Others see it as a_ privilege_. If we believe that we are entitled to sex…and our spouse sees sex as a privilege, sparks are going to fly. No wonder why so many people are walking around both sexually and emotionally frustrated.
> 
> The one who thinks of sex as an entitlement is going to DEMAND sex. They'll see it as more of a requirement; a duty. A responsibility. An "expectation". Something that their spouse "owes" them.
> 
> ...


Ok well let's look at this is a different way. Sex isn't the only thing that is assumed in marriage as either an entitilement or a priviledge. What about provision for the family. Most of the time it is just assumed that this responsibility falls onto the man. Most of the time, women see it as an ENTITLEMENT and demand their husband to do this as if it is owed to them. The courts also see it this way. If a man leaves a marriage, he "owes" provision for the family. Don't women have any responsibility to the family or to her husband? 

If there are legal responsibilities that men have to live up to, what about the same for women? Women don't necessarily have to do anything, if they don't want to give their husbands sex, they don't have to, if they don't want to help support the family they don't have to. They are perfectly able however to play the divorce card and get half of everything without having ANY responsibilities. I think that women ought to be viewed as an equal legal partner in a marriage and should have legal obligations as men do. 

Sorry, it just gets me a little rattled when folks start talking about marital expectations.


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## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Ok well let's look at this is a different way. Sex isn't the only thing that is assumed in marriage as either an entitilement or a priviledge. What about provision for the family. Most of the time it is just assumed that this responsibility falls onto the man. Most of the time, women see it as an ENTITLEMENT and demand their husband to do this as if it is owed to them. The courts also see it this way. If a man leaves a marriage, he "owes" provision for the family. Don't women have any responsibility to the family or to her husband?
> 
> If there are legal responsibilities that men have to live up to, what about the same for women? Women don't necessarily have to do anything, if they don't want to give their husbands sex, they don't have to, if they don't want to help support the family they don't have to. They are perfectly able however to play the divorce card and get half of everything without having ANY responsibilities. I think that women ought to be viewed as an equal legal partner in a marriage and should have legal obligations as men do.
> 
> Sorry, it just gets me a little rattled when folks start talking about marital expectations.


Women are held accountable in court. They have to pay child support if custody is given to the husband. I know some women who pay alimony as well if they made more money than their husband or if their husband was a SAHD. If she did not have a job (due to a mutual agreement for her to become a SAHM) then she is expected to educate herself, if necessary, and start contributing financially, combined with usually being the primary carer for the children. She is given a time limit to do so. This will all depend on the number and age of children who need caring for, of course. 

Please don't say women do not have ANY responsibilities.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think most women work now. The whole provider thing is getting turned upside down.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

SARAHMCD said:


> Women are held accountable in court. They have to pay child support if custody is given to the husband.


Ok so in the very few instances when custody is given to the father, women are held resposible, but this is probably in less than 1% of the cases. Any man that has had a divorce will tell you it's almost impossible to get full custody. I know here in the East there is a rule of thumb, if you have breasts, you get custody. 

For the most part then, we can say that women have no legal obligation.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

As a lawyer I consulted a few years so succinctly put it, in our very conservative county's family court system the mother would have to be "Susan Smith" to not be awarded custody...


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## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Ok so in the very few instances when custody is given to the father, women are held resposible, but this is probably in less than 1% of the cases. Any man that has had a divorce will tell you it's almost impossible to get full custody. I know here in the East there is a rule of thumb, if you have breasts, you get custody.
> 
> For the most part then, we can say that women have no legal obligation.


Then women have the time-consuming and difficult responsibility of raising the children. This means they either can't work or are restricted in the kind of work they can get if they have primary custody (again, depending on ages, health and number of children). They end up paying the majority of the financial cost of raising that child. The man is very rarely mandated a child care payment that covers 100% of costs, or most times even 50%. Some men chose to step up and do that, but the court does not mandate the full cost of raising a child to one parent. 

Please don't make it out like women just take and never give. Is there some inequality in the court system? It depends on how you look at that. And I'm sure there are cases where it is unfair - one way or the other. But to say woman do not have ANY obligation is ridiculous.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

To me, most of the "compromises" are misguided. If she wants it 5 times per week and he wants it once a week, and they compromise on 3 times per week, both of them are unhappy all the time. He has more sex than he wants every week and she has less sex than she wants every week.

A better compromise is to trade who is in control each week. One week he is. One week she is. That way, each is happy half the time and each is unhappy half the time. And each gets to be in control half the time.

Yes, this can be abused by a selfish or cruel spouse but that is true of any system. Let us assume both spouses mean well they simply desire different amounts of frequency.

Now, to the extent that there is a systemic difference in the power struggle between LDs and HDs, to me it comes down to this: I believe the overwhelming majority of HDs would accept the "trade weeks" compromise in a heartbeat and the overwhelming majority of LDs would reject it outright. Yet it results in the couple having the same amount of sex "on average". Just timed differently. To the extent that the LD rejects this arrangement (and in over a decade on many forums I have never seen a posting where any LD agreed to this), it seems clearly an issue of control and not fairness.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Heatherknows said:


> Probably. But that wasn't the point. You suggested that women want sex more than men and I indicated that although my husband is LD most men aren't.


I am certain that samyeager's experience is exactly what it is for *him*, in his particular case.

But stereotypes usually have some reality behind them. It would be weird if they didn't; how would they have arisen? Stereotypes are generalizations which by no means says that they are accurate in every case. Stereotypes can, of course, be wrong or were correct once upon a time and no longer are. But, usually, there's something to them.

However, before you let everyone convince you that you're crazy and that men and women's sexual desires are exactly the same; know that plenty of educated people people disagree with this. Why I Don't Only Give Gender-Neutral Advice - Dr. Psych Mom


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

When I was the LD, I wouldn't have liked the "trade weeks" deal at all.

From my perspective, that would look like two days of good sex, and then three or four days of struggling to perform and seem enthusiastic when I was really feeling touched out. Then my week, which would be a few days of needing space and not wanting to be around him much. Then a few days of just not having sex because I knew there was a lot more coming.

From his perspective, it would be two days of good sex, and then three or four days of duty sex. Then me being grumpy and distant for a few days, then a few more normal days with no sex.

He would probably take care of himself on any days with no sex. But I wouldn't really have anything I could do on his days, to relieve that touched-out feeling. At least when we met in the middle, we could both be content, even if we weren't absolutely happy.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I am certain that samyeager's experience is exactly what it is for *him*, in his particular case.
> 
> But stereotypes usually have some reality behind them. It would be weird if they didn't; how would they have arisen? Stereotypes are generalizations which by no means says that they are accurate in every case. Stereotypes can, of course, be wrong or were correct once upon a time and no longer are. But, usually, there's something to them.
> 
> However, before you let everyone convince you that you're crazy and that men and women's sexual desires are exactly the same; know that plenty of educated people people disagree with this. Why I Don't Only Give Gender-Neutral Advice - Dr. Psych Mom


Stereotypes and generalizations are often at least semi accurate when applied to large populations. The problems people run into with them is when they try and apply them to individuals.

Many people cling to what they have been learned with regards to stereotypes, and just can't bring themselves to put them fully aside when faced with an individual that doesn't fit them.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> Ok well let's look at this is a different way. Sex isn't the only thing that is assumed in marriage as either an entitilement or a priviledge. What about provision for the family. Most of the time it is just assumed that this responsibility falls onto the man. Most of the time, women see it as an ENTITLEMENT and demand their husband to do this as if it is owed to them. The courts also see it this way. If a man leaves a marriage, he "owes" provision for the family. Don't women have any responsibility to the family or to her husband?
> 
> If there are legal responsibilities that men have to live up to, what about the same for women? Women don't necessarily have to do anything, if they don't want to give their husbands sex, they don't have to, if they don't want to help support the family they don't have to. They are perfectly able however to play the divorce card and get half of everything without having ANY responsibilities. I think that women ought to be viewed as an equal legal partner in a marriage and should have legal obligations as men do.
> 
> Sorry, it just gets me a little rattled when folks start talking about marital expectations.


You are mistaken! Both parties finances are looked at, in my state anyways. Support is considered based on the income of both parents. In my recent divorce, my husband could have asked for and I would have been ordered to pay for spousal maintenance. We have a large gap in our income. Luckily, he didn't ask for it. 

But why is this OK? I have a vagina, it is so wrong! I am female and not capable of supporting myself or my children. In fact, I only got married so that some guy could buy me my dream house, give me some babies and then I would kick him to the curb and take him for everything he is worth!

Sorry, it just gets me a little rattled when people assume that we are still living in the 1950s. Not "all" or "most" women think this way you know. 

I bought my own damn house, on my own damn income. So I guess I bought him the dream house. ha ha


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> Ok so in the very few instances when custody is given to the father, women are held resposible, but this is probably in less than 1% of the cases. Any man that has had a divorce will tell you it's almost impossible to get full custody. I know here in the East there is a rule of thumb, if you have breasts, you get custody.
> 
> For the most part then, we can say that women have no legal obligation.


Please cite your source for 1%.

In my state, they try to grant 50/50 physical custody. This is what I have had for 13 years. Although we have changed living arrangements on our own throughout the years, that is the legal standing. Joint legal and Joint physical. Child support based on BOTH incomes and time spent at each home. Child support turned out to be ZERO. I did not owe him and he did not owe me. Yes, it can go both ways. It is extremely difficult to change that custody unless EITHER of the parents is found unfit. I can only speak for my experience in my county of my state though. 

I know a woman in another state, who pays her ex over 2K/month to help support her 3 children. Should she be pissed about this? No! He has full custody, she has visitation. She has no problem supporting her children that happen to live with their dad. 

You sound like a very bitter man who hates women and has now lumped all women into the same category as your wife.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

norajane said:


> Because she's having as _much _sex as she _enjoys _having. Any more would not necessarily be better because it might be too much.
> 
> Consider food. A great meal is a great meal, and thoroughly enjoyable. That doesn't mean they want another meal again right after they finished eating - it would be too much food and they're already stuffed.
> 
> Just because something is great when it happens doesn't mean people want it all the time. Some people put a lot of themselves into sex...it's very personal...and trying to do it more often means the quality of the sex wanes. And then sex goes from great to blah to none.


This is pretty hard to grasp for a HD person. They've never exxperienced the feeling if too much sex. For many, there is no such amount. At least for me, I don't think it exists. My minimum is around 3 times a week to be happy. I would consider daily ideal. I could handle multiple times a day if my partner wanted it.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Where the analogies fail for me: 

Too much food makes you fat, and sets you up for diabetes and heart disease.

Too much alcohol pickles your liver.

What does too much monogamous sex do? For most of our marriage my wife and I were matched HD. We've had mire sex than the vast majority of people. Neither of our nether-region's are falling apart.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

English1979 said:


> My wife says she loves me, fancies me, is happy with all aspects of our marriage and enjoys the sex that we have. So why not do it more often then?


My husband and I have sex every night. Sometimes I fantasize about going to bed without having sex. It's not because I don't love him or find him attractive...it's because I am tired. SOOOOO bloody tired. And when we do go to bed without having sex...he wakes me up in the middle of the night. Oh lord I just want a nap! So don't feel bad. Your wife probably loves you but is just a bit tired.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Or she just doesn't desireit as often as he does. Nothing wrong that. Or with what he desires. Human beings are allowed to differ on some things.


so what does he do about the unfulfilled need?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> so what does he do about the unfulfilled need?


My opinion is that they respect each other's differences as being totally OK, and then try to come to a compromise.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

larry.gray said:


> Where the analogies fail for me:
> 
> Too much food makes you fat, and sets you up for diabetes and heart disease.
> 
> ...


It takes an emotional toll. Everyone has a different definition of how much is too much. If I'm pressed to have a lot more sex than I want, it makes me feel like a blow up doll being used for someone else's pleasure. And after the second or third day in a row, it physically doesn't feel good to me anymore, until I have a couple of days to recover.

Sure, too much sex won't kill me. But it will quickly kill a lot of my romantic feelings toward my partner, if he's using me for his pleasure without considering my feelings about it.

I think this can hard for some HDs to understand, because the feeling of being overloaded on sex doesn't happen to them often.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

NoSizeQueen said:


> It takes an emotional toll. Everyone has a different definition of how much is too much. If I'm pressed to have a lot more sex than I want, it makes me feel like a blow up doll being used for someone else's pleasure. And after the second or third day in a row, it physically doesn't feel good to me anymore, until I have a couple of days to recover.
> 
> Sure, too much sex won't kill me. But it will quickly kill a lot of my romantic feelings toward my partner, if he's using me for his pleasure without considering my feelings about it.
> 
> I think this can hard for some HDs to understand, because the feeling of being overloaded on sex doesn't happen to them often.


I WANT to be the blow up doll! >

But seriously, I get your point and appreciate hearing the perspective from the other side of the spectrum. I never really considered this point of view before when I was with my ex husband who did not want a lot of sex and thought he was simply LD. 

I thought he was just being selfish and controlling. I went through all the "he is LD" discussions here. Turns out our problem was not a HD/LD dynamic. I learned he wanted and was having plenty of sex, just not with me.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

NoSizeQueen said:


> I think this can hard for some HDs to understand, because the feeling of being overloaded on sex doesn't happen to them often.


That was the point I was making, it is hard for me to empathize because I've never felt that way.

If I was being used for one sided sex, with little concern for my own enjoyment then maybe I would feel that way. In fact I have felt that way.... But sex with both giving and receiving? Never. It's simply never happened to me. I'd throw out numbers, but I guarantee you'd call me a liar.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> That was the point I was making, it is hard for me to empathize because I've never felt that way.
> 
> If I was being used for one sided sex, with little concern for my own enjoyment then maybe I would feel that way. In fact I have felt that way.... But sex with both giving and receiving? Never. It's simply never happened to me. I'd throw out numbers, but I guarantee you'd call me a liar.


Yes. This! I would never want it to be one sided. For me, I think there should always be mutual enjoyment. 

I also have never felt "over used." No one would probably believe me either. If I had my way it would be daily at a minimum. When I am on vacation then multiple times. That is why I go on vacation. To spend time together, reconnect and explore each other..all. day. long.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

where_are_we said:


> I also have never felt "over used." No one would probably believe me either. If I had my way it would be daily at a minimum. When I am on vacation then multiple times. That is why I go on vacation. To spend time together, reconnect and explore each other..all. day. long.


Ditto for us. 

One of the funnest times we've ever had is going on vacation when we were trying to get pregnant. My wife was "using" me with a certain goal in mind, and I enjoyed every second of it.


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