# Marriage On the Verge of Imploding - Need Guidance/Advice



## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

So where to begin... I'm 39 years old, male. Currently married to my wife (younger 30s) with 2 kids (7 and 4). We've been together for 12 years, married for 8. I'll try not to make this too long, as people sometimes stop reading if it's a wall of text.

*Backstory*
We both worked, had successful jobs, got married, lived a great life, then had kids. Throughout the relationship, we've argued off and on, sometimes minor, other times really bad blowouts. Sometimes about her, sometimes about me, sometimes about us, sometimes about the kids or our blood-relatives. It's gotten worse over time. When it gets really bad, she would withhold sex/intimacy and I would threaten to divorce (although I don't mean it at all). Rinse, repeat. I never thought things were bad. Despite the fights, I forget about it and move on. Apparently, she never forgets and she has mentally taken a tally of every time it happens and it seems to have taken a toll on her. She's asked me to go to couples' counseling in the past, only for me to dismiss it. Call it pride, not realizing it was bad, etc. For me, my mentality of a counselor/therapist is when you hit rock bottom. She lost her job roughly 3 years ago and decided to be a stay at home mom. I never supported her in that decision up until last fall. Since COVID spiked, I was forced to WFH since March. This exacerbated our problems and that's when it went DEFCON-50. We hit rock bottom. I guess going to work was an "escape" for both of us but being in close quarters 24/7 did not bode well. We argued during the time I was home and she finally laid it out and said she didn't want to keep trying anymore.

In April, wife said she was not in love with me anymore. She felt we had no connection and in turn, there was no reason to continue being together. I got scared and I didn't want the marriage to end and I agreed to couples counseling. Because of COVID, it took me a long time to find a counselor who would see us. She focused mostly on personality tests (Myers-Briggs & enneagram) to show our personalities. I'm an ISTJ-T via Myers-Briggs and an enneagram Type 1w9. My wife is an ENFP (MB) and enneagram Type 7. We did counseling for 2 months. From the beginning it was more of the counselor listening and providing suggestions on how to grow as a couple. As it progressed, my wife had an extremely hard time trying to rekindle a relationship. For her, there was a block that she didn't want to do anything with me. Her happiness was gone when interacting with me. She would prefer to be alone the majority of the time, reading her book or watching TV. All my attempts were shut down (I even tried to go on dates again). I started to suspect something was up, but couldn't find any evidence of adultery/cheating. When looking for a laptop charger cord did I find a new vibrator toy that she never had before. It was quite elaborate. I got very angry about it. We argued about it and she said it was none of my business and it was for her to get her "release". It was a pain point for me, but what can you do?

Personally, I grew during the 2 months of counseling. The counselor was proud of me because of the progress I’ve made in not being angry, being more supportive, and being a better person all around. Despite all this, nothing changed. During the last month of counseling, it would get to a point where she said she couldn't try anymore, tears were shed, my heart was destroyed, only for her to come back and say she wanted to try a couple days later. She did this 3 times over the course of the month. The last time was the nail in the coffin, she said she needed to tell her parents (which she said she hasn't told them) and I told her to (thinking it would give her relief). But for her, it was a point of no return. We spent our last session with the counselor with me finally accepting it was the end and I needed to move on with my life. Wife said she wanted to move out-of-state to go back home and was wanting me to give her primary custody. I didn't respond and the next day, I took the kids to see my brother at the end May. My wife ended up going to see her parents to iron out next steps. During the time away, I talked to a lawyer since in divorce, she was going to take half of everything. The only thing I was concerned with was that I get a fair share of custody of the kids and that she didn't try to take the kids and move back home to her parent's city (over 3.5 hours away).

When I came home on May 31st from my brother's, wife said she wanted to give it one more shot. One more go for the sake of us. I was scared, reluctant, but hopeful. But things were not different. If you're wanting to give it 1 more go, you give it your all. She still had a hard time finding time for us. Her emotion wasn't there. When I asked her about it on several occasions, she said she was trying internally to come to the table and she was trying. But to me, there was no progress. Day after day, I tried to do things to gain her interest. She still wanted to be alone and she still used her vibrator about once a week. To me, it was no different than when my heart was hurting in counseling. As each day went by, I got more frustrated. There were no efforts (at least visible to me) of love/affection/intimacy. I didn't expect the intimacy thing since she said she couldn't have sex with someone she had no connection with. To her though, she said she was trying by cooking dinner and talking during meals.

*Most Important Detail*
By the 2nd week of June, I started to doubt us and the marriage. This is why I started this post and this account. I created an account on a dating site. If my wife said I'm not desired by her and she doesn't find me attractive, was it me? Did I have a chance if we split? Within a couple days, I got a match here and there. I learned the hard way that on dating sites (and by friends who used it) that there are a lot of times you get a match but the person will never respond. Well that's what happened. When I'd match, I'd send a message. On the 3rd week of June, I matched with a really pretty girl. My shock was more along the lines of, does a girl like that really like me? I asked her to coffee just based on curiosity sake. Would I have ever met someone in person? Probably not because I’m a coward. I never get a response. 2.5 weeks went by and I only matched with 5 people, 1 who I talked to (but quit talking to near the very beginning) and the other 4 were just me sending a single message. The only one I asked to meet was the pretty girl I mentioned earlier. Again, nobody responded to me.

Well a funny thing happened. The last week of June, we started hanging out more. Then on July 1st, my wife wanted to have sex with me. This blew my mind as it was my assumption that her statement of no sex = no connection meant that we were building one. At least that was what I thought. All the evidence I was looking for, for things getting better all happened that week. So fast forward to July 5. My wife already planned a trip to the beach with the kids to meet up with her immediate family. I wasn't going due to me having to work. She wanted to spend the day packing and relaxing before the trip and asked me to take care of the kids. I agreed and while spending time outside the home with the kids, I thought to myself.... "hey this is what you've been waiting for, you should delete that dating profile". Well those of you with kids know they are demanding and to delete the dating profile is more than just deleting the app. You have to go in and delete the account permanently. I ended up not getting to it and that evening was then my wife found out. She had to use my phone to call the airline since hers was dead and saw a notification of the dating app pop up. She got angry and demanded to see it. She read all my messages and my profile. She left for the airport the next day.

*My Admission*
It is now 7 days ago that this all happened. First and foremost, I acknowledge that I cheated. I acknowledge I made a mistake and it was one that I should have never ever have done. It shouldn't have even crossed my mind. My wife has a wide range of emotions right now. I wrote her a letter admitting guilt and my weaknesses (impatience with the reconciliation process, insecurity about her vibrator). I apologized in that letter and said I want us to work and I will work on rebuilding her trust. She ripped up the letter after reading it and told me at this point, she needs to figure out what to do next. Since we can't afford a full-blow separation with one of us moving out, I am locked upstairs in my home and I'm not allowed to talk/see her. We are to split taking care of the kids and we are not to eat meals or do anything together. This is until further notice. I spent yesterday and today with the kids. We had a good time, but I've been sad. Remorseful.

*Comments/Advice/Suggestions?*
So for those of you who read my post, thank you for reading. I know it was a lot to read but I ask for any kind of advice. I have talked to my brother and my 2 friends nearly every day on it and they are all telling me to be patient. On the flipside, they have mentioned that I never committed adultery, but she is treating it like I did. But I told them I'm not going to downplay it and I just want to reconcile. But at this point, I don't know if it will happen. My wife has already told me "everyone I've talked to about this says you're a cheater".

Where do I go from here??
I didn't commit adultery, although I did cheat. The past few months have been awful thinking my marriage was over, but it seems like we are back to square one.
I'm so lost... I don't eat, I have trouble staying focused for work. I don't know how much longer I can be like this (since March).
I want it to work so badly.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

... let’s have it dude !


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

Can you see it? I posted it and it says pending approval before being displayed publicly.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

RuckaMuckaSand said:


> Can you see it? I posted it and it says pending approval before being displayed publicly.


Yes I see it


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Ok so yeah... Dating profile = very bad idea. Obviously that would piss her off quite nicely but hey .... you were curious and out in the cold...whatever.
So there is a really “common truth “ about women and it is said here all the time ..... and is pretty dang accurate.
When a woman is done ..... she is done. She has most likely been calculating this for a very very long time. I’m not saying this is a evil thing....I’m saying it’s a women’s brain thing. When she loses that interest in you like your wife has .... dude it is like game over.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

And further:

Men are stupid. I’m a man so I get to say that. They will hold on like grim death thinking that one day “she will love me again”. Men think that women are like men .... or can think like men. Men fall in love and spread there man ego all over and think life is great.... meanwhile her brain is calculating life love and happiness on 37 different levels and loves you for WHAT you are just as much as WHO you are.

You are not WHAT she needs anymore, no matter how much you want her to love you for WHO you are.

All this is to say .... she is done and it is only her fear of the unknown that has her not wanting to jump off the high diving board ..... not WHO you are.


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

...


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> Ok so yeah... Dating profile = very bad idea. Obviously that would piss her off quite nicely but hey .... you were curious and out in the cold...whatever.
> So there is a really “common truth “ about women and it is said here all the time ..... and is pretty dang accurate.
> When a woman is done ..... she is done. She has most likely been calculating this for a very very long time. I’m not saying this is a evil thing....I’m saying it’s a women’s brain thing. When she loses that interest in you like your wife has .... dude it is like game over.





Mr.Married said:


> And further:
> 
> Men are stupid. I’m a man so I get to say that. They will hold on like grim death thinking that one day “she will love me again”. Men think that women are like men .... or can think like men. Men fall in love and spread there man ego all over and think life is great.... meanwhile her brain is calculating life love and happiness on 37 different levels and loves you for WHAT you are just as much as WHO you are.
> 
> ...


I guess the question I have if she has been done, why didn't she do it before the dating profile thing? The mental and emotional toll it took on me to hear she was done 3 times earlier in the spring was so unbearable. You mentioned her fear of the unknown.

Maybe this dating profile thing was the last bit to push her off the diving board?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Just so it’s clear .... because it probably sounds like I’m bashing you .... but I’m not....
It sounds strange to think about but a lot of wounded guys like you find there way here. Men get their emotions busted up when they realize there wife isn’t into them anymore and then they do all kinds of really strange sh!t.

For example.... you really think the dating profile deal is the cause? Look at the big picture ! Every divorce is a progress of steps usually but people hang to one thing. She isn’t leaving because of the profile.... that is just the push off the diving board. She is leaving because she has fallen out of love. That is the tough truth


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Leave her alone about her vibrator..... that is sex shaming her and a terrible idea. That’s a whole different topic but do yourself a favor and leave it alone.


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> Just so it’s clear .... because it probably sounds like I’m bashing you .... but I’m not....
> It sounds strange to think about but a lot of wounded guys like you find there way here. Men get their emotions busted up when they realize there wife isn’t into them anymore and then they do all kinds of really strange sh!t.
> 
> For example.... you really think the dating profile deal is the cause? Look at the big picture ! Every divorce is a progress of steps usually but people hang to one thing. She isn’t leaving because of the profile.... that is just the push off the diving board. She is leaving because she has fallen out of love. That is the tough truth


No, I get it. I haven't taken any offense to it. I think I realized it too late. Especially if she said the emotional abuse of the fighting and not supporting her (aka her wanting to be a stay-at-home mom) has been going on for years. So I guess if you look at the stages of grief, I've come to that acceptance that she's fallen out of love.

But bottom line is, it hurts. It hurts bad. I just am looking for a shred of hope that I can win her back.



Mr.Married said:


> Leave her alone about her vibrator..... that is sex shaming her and a terrible idea. That’s a whole different topic but do yourself a favor and leave it alone.


As for that, I have but it wasn't without an argument a couple times in the past. It wasn't until the last argument she made me realize it wasn't as big of a deal as I thought it was. But like I said, maybe it's too little too late for me. As I sit here in the middle of the night, alone in the guest bedroom... if it's come to this, I just want her to rip the bandaid off instead of just letting me agonize on when she's going to do it.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

RuckaMuckaSand said:


> . It's gotten worse over time. When it gets really bad, she would withhold sex/intimacy and I would threaten to divorce (although I don't mean it at all). Rinse, repeat. I never thought things were bad. Despite the fights, I forget about it and move on. Apparently, she never forgets and she has mentally taken a tally of every time it happens
> She lost her job roughly 3 years ago and decided to be a stay at home mom. I never supported her
> 
> In April, wife said she was not in love with me anymore. She felt we had no connection and in turn, there was


the fighting got worse .... she tallied up every fight .... you didn’t support her staying home. BOOM ..... you didn’t listen to what SHE WAS SAYING !!!

SO WHAT HAPPENS...... emotionally disconnects .... falls out of love

Tell me about April again ...... yeah she tells you she isn’t in love with you.

Dude ..... she is already done.

When you don’t emotionally support a woman ... it’s just a matter of time


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Ya know each person has some parts in a divorce..... but it is important to try to listen to what your partner is trying to tell you. A lot of times they can’t come out and say it because they don’t know themselves.... women are fickle creatures... they like to be cared for.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The sun will come up tomorrow and it will be a new day. She is probably done for good but I suggest you do the following:

Tomorrow you will sit down with her and tell her: As I look back on our past I realize I have made some mistakes. These mistakes have led to the place we are today and has caused my wife to fall out of love with me. I never intended for it to come to this. I’m sorry.

After that.... never argue or raise your voice again. You did would you could to apologize.
You need to be smart .... I promise you ... woman are.

Your brain would hurt less if you let go of that last shread of hope ..... that’s that grim death grip thing that dudes do. And to be honest ... woman can smell that desperation like a dirty diaper in an elevator..... it’s the opposite of attractive if you know what I mean.
Your still attracted to your wife ... she is probably cute... it’s tough... I get.
No one will deny that what your going through is tough


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

I agree that she was done awhile but a couple things were holding her back:

1) Thought of being a single mom and how hard that is on a number of levels. Financial, responsibility for things you’re doing now, zero kids help, being alone while kids are with you. Dating as a single mom.
2) Avoiding looking like the bad guy by filing first.
3) Comfort. Right nice she gets what she wants and has to put in nothing, soon she’ll be 100% on her own... that’s foreboding.
4) Financial loss. Her future finances will be on her alone. Besides divorce is expensive.

Biggest problem is you gave her the rope to hang yourself with. The issue is no longer incompatibility or irreconcilable difference... it’s that you cheated. From here on out, you divorced because you cheated.... period. Sucks but that’s how this will play out. She has been absolved off any wrong-doing in your marriage in the eyes on everyone but you.

Here’s the truth, in most cases, cheating both partners are to blame. Yes you set up a dating profile and actually met someone in person. But she cut you off emotionally and physically long before that yet still wanted all the benefits of being married. She put you in the spot of “you can’t have me or anyone else and should you try I’ll burn your life to the ground.” Meanwhile, she is having her cake and eating it since you’re coparents with everything but sexual benefits. Ideally, there would be humility on both sides like “what you did was wrong but I am partly to blame because I weaponized sex.”

I would do what another poster said... give an honest, humble, sincere apology for closure then move to protect yourself. Tell her the door is still open and the divorce can be called off anytime.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

So. Years of threatening to divorce your wife while with every argument while also ignoring her pleas for MC. And then you got so impatient with 2 MONTHS of MC that you started a dating profile to find her replacement? It doesn't sound like your relationship was ever all that healthy. And that's every bit as much your fault as your wife's. You're hurting now because your ego is bruised, you're worried about the money, and you're panicking at the thought of divorce.

Dude. Just get an amicable and equitable divorce. Yes, you'll be financially strained for a while. No, she cannot just take your children and move away without considering you. No, your relationship with your wife isn't salvageable - certainly not with the years of hurt between you and your _very_ obvious lack of patience for the real work required to rebuild the current train wreck into a healthy relationship.

I strongly suggest that you spend a good amount of time as a single man learning what a healthy relationship actually looks like. Get into IC to figure out how to be a healthy partner. Do that all before you decide to start dating again. You'll then be in a much better position to find, and be, a healthy partner in a healthy relationship somewhere down the line.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

RuckaMuckaSand said:


> I just want her to rip the bandaid off instead of just letting me agonize on when she's going to do it.


Is your hand broken? You can call the shots just as easily as she. 

Face it, if you had valued the relationship you would have taken action to fix your problems way before the final countdown. Right now, you're scared that no other woman will want you and are desperately trying to hang on to her because you don't want to be alone. Don't let fear rule your life.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

You have quite the mess here.
I think your best path forward is divorce, but I will present am alternative possibility, as well.
It doesn't sound like you had a healthy marriage. You had communication problems and she used sex as a weapon.
She was done in April. You got scared and went to counseling.
You made some progress. She couldn't handle it. She bailed. She got some pressure from family. That's why she came back on May 31.
I know what I would have done if I were you at that point. I'd have told her that the only way that I would reconcile would be with a post nup, that is favorable to me *but that also lists specific benchmarks in regard to counseling, communication, and marital operation with specific responsibilities identified by spouse. *At that point, I'd say that this was warranted because she was jerking you around, even after you stepped up, got counseling, and was making successful progress.
Then you blew it. You had to know that regaining marital normalcy was going to be a process, not an event. She was still leaving you hanging. That's where the agreement I mentioned would have been useful, and would have provided you both structure in repairing the damage. However, you overcome the odds and start to make some progress; then, you undermine yourself by a need for instant gratification. If you truly wanted to revitalize your marriage, how did you think that registering on a dating app would be helpful? If you were that pent up, do what your wife did and go buy a toy.
She now has the high ground. The only thing that you have in your favor is she doesn't seem to want you gone, otherwise you and your bags would be at the curb. If you truly want to save things (and I'm not sure why, but that is your call) delete the app, use the time you are being shunned to put together a persuasive argument and an action plan for fixing your relationship. Present it to her at the right time with some sincerity and remorse, and you may stand a chance at starting a new relationship that might be better than the one that you have now. The one you have is dead.
You both need some intensive IC as well as MC. You both have a lot of work ahead of you.
You both might need to end it. If that is the case, focus on being the best parents you can be. Your kids deserve that.
Best of luck.


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

aaarghdub said:


> Here’s the truth, in most cases, cheating both partners are to blame. Yes you set up a dating profile and actually met someone in person.


Just for clarity, I never met anyone but no excuses. Cheating is cheating. The app/profile has since been deleted too.

Anyway, thanks everyone. The outsider's perspective is refreshing to hear/see. My brother and my friends are taking the stance of "try and salvage" it but rightfully so, they are my friends/family. But sometimes, friends/family tell you what you want to hear rather than what you should do.

I guess a part of me this time around kinda knows it's the end. I'm not as sad as I was when I learned she wanted it over the first time around. I don't think my mind/body can take that kind of toll again. So maybe it's some kind of mental block?



Blondilocks said:


> Is your hand broken? You can call the shots just as easily as she.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess I don't do it because I'm afraid of the same bullet points that another member wrote but with things that apply to me.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

She went home to mommy and daddy’s , right? The. Comes back and says...”Let’s try again!” 
Nah.....She saw you as the plan B and room mate she had to get along with. Not as a valued life mate and lover. 
I don’t think you “cheated” per se. she left the marriage long before. You were just picking up after her the whole time and not keeping score. 
You need to find yourself and be comfortable before you go looking for others to parry up with. You should start the 180. And start making yourself truly happy. You will find that you really don’t need her or anyone. You will be much more attractive to others when self confidence is around!


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> She went home to mommy and daddy’s , right? The. Comes back and says...”Let’s try again!”
> Nah.....She saw you as the plan B and room mate she had to get along with. Not as a valued life mate and lover.
> I don’t think you “cheated” per se. she left the marriage long before. You were just picking up after her the whole time and not keeping score.
> You need to find yourself and be comfortable before you go looking for others to parry up with. You should start the 180. And start making yourself truly happy. You will find that you really don’t need her or anyone. You will be much more attractive to others when self confidence is around!
> ...


Right now I'm battling internally. If kids weren't involved, it would be much easier. I know they are resilient and can adapt, but I hate for them to grow up in split households.

With that said, I'm debating on talking to my attorney. He gave me advice and is just waiting for my retainer fee, which is $3500. He said with the stay at home mom thing and not working and 8 years of marriage, I will owe about 2 years of alimony at least. So I have a good amount in my retirement and a good amount in equity of the house. I think I'm going to go with lump sum so I can just cut ties altogether. I'm still trying to figure out how to divvy it up.

The only thing I'm concerned with is her dad has been coaxing her for years to move back home. She sends him updated resumes every couple months. I talked to my lawyer and he said I can stop her from leaving the state. But looking it up online, I found this, which doesn't bode well for me.






Supreme Court Allows Dad to Take Daughter to AZ for New Nursing Job


TN Supreme Court allows dad to move to AZ with daughter for new nursing job because objecting parent has the burden of proof to show unreasonableness.




memphisdivorce.com


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@RuckaMuckaSand , 

Super short response to that article: the family in this case is a lot different than your case. In this case, mom had primary custody, kids spent more time with her than him, he was an "equal or better" earner for the family (it didn't mention if the mom worked or not), and as non-residential parent, he got a job out of state and wanted to take his kids with him. [NOTE: this law was written to protect the non-residential parent in the event that the residential parent wants to move out of state.] In this case, according to the law, he was "permitted to move" unless the mom showed proof that moving was unreasonable--both the trial court and the appellate court acting like the dad had to prove it WAS REASONABLE and that "reasonable" meant "significant or substantial" in difference. The TN Supreme Court just said "NOPE! The dad is permitted unless MOM proves in a court of law that it is NOT REASONABLE. 

In YOUR case, there is no custody yet set (but it's reasonable to assume at least 50/50), kids would spend equal time with the two of you, you are THE ONLY earner for the family, and as an equal residential parent, in order for her to move the kids out of state, it would have to be "reasonable" and she would have to prove why. 

Now, the article indicates that Tennessee parental relocation statute is the one they were contesting. Here is Tenn. Code Ann. 36.6.106 (law about TN Child Custody) and 36.6.108 (law about TN parental relocation) http://www.lrcvaw.org/laws/tnrelocation.pdf Read those laws, get familiar with what those laws tells you about custody, and study those laws!! Knowledge is power!! In YOUR case...there wouldn't be a "primary residential parent" because it would be 50/50. She would have to stay within *50 miles of you*, and if she does plan to move more than 50 miles away, she would have to LEGALLY notify you by certified mail 60 days before the move. If you disagree, she would have to file to modify the custody and the location IN COURT. She is forbidden to move the kids until she gets direct approval from the court. And if it is heard by a judge, you will have your chance to show why moving the kids to another state, away from their current home, school, friends and life, with the NON-earning spouse, is unreasonable.


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

Affaircare said:


> @RuckaMuckaSand ,
> Now, the article indicates that Tennessee parental relocation statute is the one they were contesting. Here is Tenn. Code Ann. 36.6.106 (law about TN Child Custody) and 36.6.108 (law about TN parental relocation) http://www.lrcvaw.org/laws/tnrelocation.pdf Read those laws, get familiar with what those laws tells you about custody, and study those laws!! Knowledge is power!! In YOUR case...there wouldn't be a "primary residential parent" because it would be 50/50. She would have to stay within *50 miles of you*, and if she does plan to move more than 50 miles away, she would have to LEGALLY notify you by certified mail 60 days before the move. If you disagree, she would have to file to modify the custody and the location IN COURT. She is forbidden to move the kids until she gets direct approval from the court. And if it is heard by a judge, you will have your chance to show why moving the kids to another state, away from their current home, school, friends and life, with the NON-earning spouse, is unreasonable.


Thank you so much for this. With so much unknown right now, this gives me some peace for my wandering mind. One question I do have though is before the dating profile mistake, when she said she was ready for divorce (end of May), she was job hunting. However she explicitly stated she was _not_ job hunting locally, but in the city where her family is. I asked her, what would she do if she got a job, she said she would take the job and expect the kids to come with her. Whether I would live with her (or another apartment) was up the in the air. I then asked what about me and my job, she said you can quit, follow us and then find a job later. The problem is her hometown is small, not very big. The are large metro areas about an hour to 1.5 hours away. My profession requires me to be in a relatively large market to make a good amount of money. So I proposed if I got a job first but in one of the metro areas, she said I would have to commute.

Please keep in mind everything I wrote was when things were at its worst (she wanted the divorce at the end of May). I told her that while reconciling, I would do my best to find a job in her hometown. I had a job interview last week but didn't get it. I think she had hope that with reconciliation, we would eventually move back.

If I understand correctly, will the current situation of potential divorce will screw up her chances of moving back to her hometown? Unless she wants to give up custody of the kids (which I expect she won't).

Final question too, is her moving back to her hometown with all her immediate family (sisters, father, mother, grandparent) and having a job lined up be enough reason to trump staying where we are? I guess I'm scared that's not reason enough (we have no family here, just friends). The only thing keeping us here is my job, and my daughter has established education (she will be in the 1st grade).

With that, I bring up this where the mother won against a father's objecting to her relocation w/ child to Texas. 
http://www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/stringer.opn_.pdf


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You are playing into her game: you must move and she is getting the kids.
Your fears are based in ignorance of the law. She can’t do that.... unless you are playing along with it and believing that she can. Right now you actually believe she can......


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Rowan said:


> So. Years of threatening to divorce your wife while with every argument while also ignoring her pleas for MC. And then you got so impatient with 2 MONTHS of MC that you started a dating profile to find her replacement? It doesn't sound like your relationship was ever all that healthy. And that's every bit as much your fault as your wife's. You're hurting now because your ego is bruised, you're worried about the money, and you're panicking at the thought of divorce.
> 
> Dude. Just get an amicable and equitable divorce. Yes, you'll be financially strained for a while. No, she cannot just take your children and move away without considering you. No, your relationship with your wife isn't salvageable - certainly not with the years of hurt between you and your _very_ obvious lack of patience for the real work required to rebuild the current train wreck into a healthy relationship.
> 
> I strongly suggest that you spend a good amount of time as a single man learning what a healthy relationship actually looks like. Get into IC to figure out how to be a healthy partner. Do that all before you decide to start dating again. You'll then be in a much better position to find, and be, a healthy partner in a healthy relationship somewhere down the line.


What's Rowan said.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

WandaJ said:


> What's Rowan said.


Funny you said that .... I was about to say the same thing 😛


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

RuckaMuckaSand said:


> I asked her, what would she do if she got a job, she said she would take the job and expect the kids to come with her.


She may EXPECT the kids to go with her, but if YOU don't she can't. TALK with your lawyer on this. She can't take them just because she wants them. She may be trying to get YOU to move before the divorce so that if YOU want to move away, she will get to have the kids near HER.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

RuckaMuckaSand said:


> So where to begin... I'm 39 years old, male. Currently married to my wife (younger 30s) with 2 kids (7 and 4). We've been together for 12 years, married for 8. I'll try not to make this too long, as people sometimes stop reading if it's a wall of text.
> 
> *Backstory*
> We both worked, had successful jobs, got married, lived a great life, then had kids. Throughout the relationship, we've argued off and on, sometimes minor, other times really bad blowouts. Sometimes about her, sometimes about me, sometimes about us, sometimes about the kids or our blood-relatives. It's gotten worse over time. When it gets really bad, she would withhold sex/intimacy and I would threaten to divorce (although I don't mean it at all). Rinse, repeat. I never thought things were bad. Despite the fights, I forget about it and move on. Apparently, she never forgets and she has mentally taken a tally of every time it happens and it seems to have taken a toll on her. She's asked me to go to couples' counseling in the past, only for me to dismiss it. Call it pride, not realizing it was bad, etc. For me, my mentality of a counselor/therapist is when you hit rock bottom. She lost her job roughly 3 years ago and decided to be a stay at home mom. I never supported her in that decision up until last fall. Since COVID spiked, I was forced to WFH since March. This exacerbated our problems and that's when it went DEFCON-50. We hit rock bottom. I guess going to work was an "escape" for both of us but being in close quarters 24/7 did not bode well. We argued during the time I was home and she finally laid it out and said she didn't want to keep trying anymore.
> ...


Sounds like a real sticky one. Feel free to read my mess in mens clubhouse (emotional affair plus confusion).

All you can really do is apologise for what you feel you should, then safe gaurd yourself financially and make sure your healthy and driven. Do the 180 and if you still want to reconcile then leave a place open in your heart and keep abit of hope for aslong as you feel happy with.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

jlg07 said:


> She may EXPECT the kids to go with her, but if YOU don't she can't. TALK with your lawyer on this. She can't take them just because she wants them. She may be trying to get YOU to move before the divorce so that if YOU want to move away, she will get to have the kids near HER.


A buddy of mine has been living this nightmare for three years now and is having to deal with it again. I can’t stress this enough... you need to explore your legal options... NOW! Each state is different but you may need to file for a court order prohibiting her taking the kids out of state. Could take a number of forms (restraining order, emergency custody order, etc). Depending on the state, it can come coincidental with a divorce filing.

The problem is one parent thinks they can just take the kid and since “they’re married” it’s cool. Not every state sees it that way. In my buddy’s case, she up and left and it was almost a year before a separation was filed. By then, the kids we’re established and he lost custody. Now she’s trying to move even further away so now he has to go back to court. 

She had a good deal. She had the kids full-time, moved in with the boyfriend, no divorce so she has access to his finances and credit, and the Army even garnished wages for support. Then out of spite, she weaponized the kids against him. The divorce aside, DO NOT gladly rollover on this!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

I spoke w/ my wife yesterday. I felt that despite it all, we have to talk at some point. Plus me being banished to a separate room upstairs with no contact isn't improving (or worsening) the general atmosphere. If anything, she was/is still brooding over anger. I was composed and calm, but she was angry and didn't want to talk. What she did say though, is that her plan is to find a realtor, sell the house because we can't live in the same roof anymore and to get a job (not necessarily in any particular order.) She said she would use the money from the house being sold to buy her own. 

Now I'm not a lawyer, but I live in Tennessee and we are not a community property state but both our names are on the title. First and foremost, I would have to agree to sell the home and secondly, any money she uses from our bank account is considered both of ours. What I read online is she can do what she says, but in the event of a divorce, her making this big purchase prior to finalizing would her alimony payments.

Anyway, that's where we are and that's her plan. As @DTG stated, I just want to safeguard myself and work on improving myself, wherever this is headed. I just think I'm screwed in the financial department.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

It sounds like you haven't had a consultation with a lawyer yet. So you're in an equity state with a marriage of less than 10 years. No, you aren't necessarily screwed financially, which is why you need to see a lawyer ASAP.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

aaarghdub said:


> A buddy of mine has been living this nightmare for three years now and is having to deal with it again. I can’t stress this enough... you need to explore your legal options... NOW! Each state is different but you may need to file for a court order prohibiting her taking the kids out of state. Could take a number of forms (restraining order, emergency custody order, etc). Depending on the state, it can come coincidental with a divorce filing.
> 
> The problem is one parent thinks they can just take the kid and since “they’re married” it’s cool. Not every state sees it that way. In my buddy’s case, she up and left and it was almost a year before a separation was filed. By then, the kids we’re established and he lost custody. Now she’s trying to move even further away so now he has to go back to court.
> 
> ...


And don't underestimate the sneak-factor -- that's how I escaped my abusive first husband, I just LEFT in the night, and stayed "off the grid" for over a year, which meant my new state considered our kids residents by then, and ALL custody hearings would have to go through them, not the state where we were married or where they were born.

It worked perfectly to keep us safe from him, but it could also be misused, so talk to a lawyer right away.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

There wasn't much marriage there since she detached probably due to not being heard for years thus building resentment. If there was a chance to get it back you probably blew that up with dating. I mean come on......

But now that you know that you really should come up with a plan if you want to try to save it. You list out what you may have realized in the last couple months, changes that you think you need to make and ask her if she is willing to give it a go. She probably won't but maybe. If she isn't willing then you need to just go ahead and file for divorce. You need to talk with her about what is a fair split, let her know in no uncertain terms that you aren't just going to let her do whatever she wants. Tell her what you feel is an equitable split (base it on the conversation you already had with the lawyer). Then let her know you two can split things amicable and you both get more or you can both get lawyers and spend most of the money on lawyers.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You are awfully worried about your wife.

I am far more concerned about you. 

What does it say about you that you needed to set up a dating profile while trying to rekindle with your wife?

It makes me question your character and your self esteem. 

A man of character ends his marriage before he dates another.

A man with self esteem. doesn't need to monkey branch partners.

You need to get your **** together, sir. Whether you lose your marriage or not, a healthy you is crucial in your ability to build and sustain a healthy life.

I would like to suggest a book for you: Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s by Wayne Levine. It is a simple yet deep book about identifying and prioritizing what matters in your life, then building upon it. It shows how to build self love and character.

Start there. Until then, focus on what matters: self improvement, your children, and preparing yourself for divorce as it sounds like that is where you are heading. 




Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

aaarghdub said:


> A buddy of mine has been living this nightmare for three years now and is having to deal with it again. I can’t stress this enough... you need to explore your legal options... NOW! Each state is different but you may need to file for a court order prohibiting her taking the kids out of state. Could take a number of forms (restraining order, emergency custody order, etc). Depending on the state, it can come coincidental with a divorce filing.
> 
> The problem is one parent thinks they can just take the kid and since “they’re married” it’s cool. Not every state sees it that way. In my buddy’s case, she up and left and it was almost a year before a separation was filed. By then, the kids we’re established and he lost custody. Now she’s trying to move even further away so now he has to go back to court.
> 
> ...


This. At a minimum, an injunction can be put in place until a thorough judicial review can be completed.

Where in TN are you?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

RuckaMuckaSand said:


> I spoke w/ my wife yesterday. I felt that despite it all, we have to talk at some point. Plus me being banished to a separate room upstairs with no contact isn't improving (or worsening) the general atmosphere. If anything, she was/is still brooding over anger. I was composed and calm, but she was angry and didn't want to talk. What she did say though, is that her plan is to find a realtor, sell the house because we can't live in the same roof anymore and to get a job (not necessarily in any particular order.) She said she would use the money from the house being sold to buy her own.
> 
> Now I'm not a lawyer, but I live in Tennessee and we are not a community property state but both our names are on the title. First and foremost, I would have to agree to sell the home and secondly, any money she uses from our bank account is considered both of ours. What I read online is she can do what she says, but in the event of a divorce, her making this big purchase prior to finalizing would her alimony payments.
> 
> Anyway, that's where we are and that's her plan. As @DTG stated, I just want to safeguard myself and work on improving myself, wherever this is headed. I just think I'm screwed in the financial department.


Pay the retainer. She has no legal basis to do any of this without your consent. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> This. At a minimum, an injunction can be put in place until a thorough judicial review can be completed.
> 
> Where in TN are you?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I'm in Nashville.

I've been trying to be helpful to my wife, getting her lunch/dinner, putting the blanket on her when she took a nap. But she's been snippy with me. I started my first individual therapy session today. Plan on continuing regardless of what happens.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Of course she is snippy with you. She had sex with you (a big thing for women) only to find out before and after you were on a dating website. Plus you two are married. YOu don't date until you are divorced.

You can't just nice her. NIce helps but you need real conversations that involve your reflections hopefully hers and a path forward. The first conversation may not create path forward. It's a process. In the mean time you really should get the lawyer going. Don't sneak let her know you are doing it to protect your custodial rights as she doesn't have the right to make unilateral decisions.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Dragging your feet ......


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Of course she is snippy with you. She had sex with you (a big thing for women) only to find out before and after you were on a dating website. Plus you two are married. YOu don't date until you are divorced.
> 
> You can't just nice her. NIce helps but you need real conversations that involve your reflections hopefully hers and a path forward. The first conversation may not create path forward. It's a process. In the mean time you really should get the lawyer going. Don't sneak let her know you are doing it to protect your custodial rights as she doesn't have the right to make unilateral decisions.


I have talked to a lawyer, but any further consultation requires me to pay them the initial retainer fee of 3500$. I feel as if I started that process, it will push her over the edge. If there's one thing going for me (the therapist said it today) is if she wanted to file, she would have done it by now. But as far as I know (and the bank account) can tell, she hasn't done that yet.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Have you had the conversation about her ideas on moving and custody?
Cause some women just wait until the time is right and spring it all at once. We are planners.
So maybe she hasn't filed because she is willing to give it a go or maybe because she isn't ready yet to leave. Maybe she wants to get a job lined up put away some money have her own FREE consultations with attorneys.

You really need to communicate with her. I'd start by not just being nice but admitting what you did here. That you realize you haven't taken her concerns as serious as you should have. Then sit down and think about what she has told you in the past. Or present, plan for how you can address her concerns. If there are ones you don't plan on addressing say why offer an alternative you can actually stick with. Nothing is more disappointing then getting all geared up to do a thing (like divorce for her) then deciding you'll wait because something has changed (you and your actions) then two weeks later you realized you've been a smuck cause nothing really changed.


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Have you had the conversation about her ideas on moving and custody?
> Cause some women just wait until the time is right and spring it all at once. We are planners.
> So maybe she hasn't filed because she is willing to give it a go or maybe because she isn't ready yet to leave. Maybe she wants to get a job lined up put away some money have her own FREE consultations with attorneys.
> 
> You really need to communicate with her. I'd start by not just being nice but admitting what you did here. That you realize you haven't taken her concerns as serious as you should have. Then sit down and think about what she has told you in the past. Or present, plan for how you can address her concerns. If there are ones you don't plan on addressing say why offer an alternative you can actually stick with. Nothing is more disappointing then getting all geared up to do a thing (like divorce for her) then deciding you'll wait because something has changed (you and your actions) then two weeks later you realized you've been a smuck cause nothing really changed.


We had that conversation this morning. I think it was productive to have because at this point, we haven't had a serious talk. We pretty much talked about everything from what happened, my atonement, how we both feel, what our plans were (at least for now), etc. Tears were shed (from me).

Her plan is still the same, to move on life without me. She's conceded to the fact that because of what we're going through (and custody) she will never be able to move back home to be with her immediate family (all her family live in her hometown - parents, sisters, nieces, nephew, cousins, aunts/uncles, etc).

She said her first thing is to be independent so she can live without me. She hates the fact that she quit working because it made her become reliant on me. Also by not working, she lost her purpose, self-esteem, and self-worth (she was always career driven). She after that, she will take steps to start living separately. She didn't specifically state divorce (maybe separation)? She said whatever the decision, it must be for her and the kids. She says I can be optimistic and hopeful and do all these things, but she feels she doesn't want to be married anymore with everything that's happened over the past 3 years. The dating app was the nail in the coffin.

Just summarizing, I told her my plan to salvage the relationship, work on myself, and be a better person (regardless of where this is going). I started seeing a therapist (which she retorted wasn't for her) but I argued it was not only for me, but my wife, my kids, my friends, all people around me. If the therapist can help me realize things and identify things to work on, help me improve ... then I would have this new self-awareness of everything I've done wrong. I ended with I know I won't be forgiven in a week, a month, or even 6 months. But I'm staying optimistic.

She said she can't read the future but for now, she is working on her plan and said she didn't want to talk anymore.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You need to read post #5 & #6 again. Dude she is done. You are in the emotional inferior position... you have to let it go.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> the fighting got worse .... she tallied up every fight .... you didn’t support her staying home. BOOM ..... you didn’t listen to what SHE WAS SAYING !!!
> 
> SO WHAT HAPPENS...... emotionally disconnects .... falls out of love
> 
> ...


Plus the repeated threats to divorce will kill anyones love.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Plus the repeated threats to divorce will kill anyones love.


You are 100% correct !!!! Probably even more so than the things I listed.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Mate, she is done. It's over. There's nothing left to save.

Take control of the situation and stop flogging a dead horse. Get all your ducks in a row, organise shared custody of the kids and file for divorce.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Let me tell you something about repeatedly threatening someone with divorce, so that you don't do it in your next marriage, should you ever remarry.

My husbands ex wife would do that to him ALL the time. One day she said it one too many times. They were in the kitchen doing the dishes, an argument started and she threatened it again. My husband didn't pause in stride, he simply said "Ok". She got the shock of her life and said "What? You want me to leave?". He replied "Yep" and from that moment on, she was out of his head.

He remarried (me, lol) 3 years later and we've now been married longer than he was married to her. We're happily married and best friends. She's a bitter old dried up shrew. I forsee crazy cat lady in her future.


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

You guys (and gals) are probably right that its over but one thing I don't think you're right about (at this point) is calling it quits. Not for the sake of salvaging the marriage, but financially. I already talked to a lawyer the first time she wanted out and he gave me some sound advice. I won't go into that but any further discussion requires a non-refundable $3500 retainer fee.

Secondly, I talked to our financial advisor (who is also a CDFA - Certified Divorce Financial Analyst). He said that it would be in my best interest to wait. Since she's a stay at home mom, she makes 0$. Meaning if she stayed jobless at the time it was finalized, her spousal support/alimony would be considerably higher than if she was working.

Right now, she's *hardcore job hunting *simply to be able to support herself without my income. She has her Master's Degree so she should be able to get a decent job. It's just a matter of time until she finds a job. Comparatively speaking, a rough estimate calculation shows the difference between her working vs a stay at home mom would be 500-1000$ a month. Given the current length of our marriage, the lawyer/financial advisor both said said spousal support is estimated to be a minimum of 2 years to a max of 4. I'm already looking at around ~$2000 a month as a baseline. When she gets a job, it can drop from anywhere to $1000 to $1500 month. That's a huge money difference over the span of 2-4 years. If I'm going to start over like this financially, it also means the difference of being able to buy a new/smaller home vs renting an apartment for a few years. On top of the spousal support, I'd have to pay child support as well to some degree.

I understand I truly f***ed up and I'm owning up to it. But if if I'm to start living on my own and pay spousal support and pay child care, I need to be able to get some sort of help in the financial area.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

RuckaMuckaSand said:


> On top of the spousal support, I'd have to pay child support as well to some degree.


If you have shared 50/50 custody I don't believe you'd pay child support. Or are you going to leave the primary responsiblity for your kids on your wife's shoulders?


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> If you have shared 50/50 custody I don't believe you'd pay child support. Or are you going to leave the primary responsiblity for your kids on your wife's shoulders?


I'm fighting for 50/50 right now, at least that's what I want. However she is fighting for more than that (at least that's what she said in prior discussions) and to be the primary custodial parent. I mentioned her job hunting in the previous post. If she were to get a job that matched her income potential of what she had before she got laid off, then I would likely not have to pay child support because we would make near the same amount. However I know that she won't want that kind of job because of the stress and time it took on her away from the kids (60+ hour weeks). Based on our previous discussions also, she's just looking for a salary-based job that just pays a decent amount that's ideal for a single-mom so she can be rid of the financial dependence.

So with all that said, since she's eyeballing a lower paying job just to get out, then of the discrepancy of what I make now vs what she makes will force me to pay her some amount of child support.

Again, it's in my best interest to just wait.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

At least your starting to make sense now. Play the game....not your emotions.


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## RuckaMuckaSand (Jul 13, 2020)

Well guys. It's a done deal. I initiated the divorce although I said I wouldn't be the one to do so. I have been continuing to go to counseling and continued to try and make it work with my wife. However over the past 2 months, she has grown to be more aggressive and resorting to mock me, call me names, putting me down. Over the past 2 months, I've continually been battered and beaten, constantly reminded by my wife that I'm not attractive, I'm weak, she's not loved me for years, etc.

At first, I took it as her continued pain of me having an online dating profile. I admitted fault to that. But as I started reflecting on things, she became more glued to her phone and her Kindle. Come to find out, she's paid probably hundreds of dollars into books like these:








Carian Cole


Author of Don't Kiss the Bride, Torn, and Tied



www.goodreads.com









All Book Series by Renee Rose


Renee Rose has 200 books on Goodreads with 451958 ratings. Renee Rose's most popular series is Bad Boy Alphas



www.goodreads.com





I understand there are romance books, but the books she's reading is kink/smut books. Again, not judging, but when I asked her about this, she would resort to putting me down. Throughout the past 2 months, I've resorted to keeping myself distracted while focusing on being a better person, husband, father, brother, friend. But it all came crashing down...

On one of the weekends I was away with my kids, I got notification that $150 was spent at a lingerie store. Particularly, it was a store that my wife _never_ bought from. When I asked her about it, she was confrontational about it. I avoided the argument and let it go. Yet I couldn't let it go. On the way home, something didn't sit well with me. I started looking at the cell phone records and found that she was texting an out-of-state from the time I left to about 2 AM every day until I got back home. I ended up calling the # and it went to voicemail and it was a man. He texted me shortly after asking "who is this".

When I got home, she ignored me completely and talked to the kids. I took the liberty of unpacking and trying to check her phone (because I have no proof). Lo and behold, she changed the password on her phone. I then looked at her Apple Watch and that's where I saw the entire text message thread. She met with a man, with flirty chat and everything included. She sent him pictures of lingerie and they met up earlier that day. She told him she couldn't host but she wanted to get hot and freaky. My hands were trembling. I know I betrayed her via the dating profile, but I _never_ went as far as to committing adultery. If anything, I knew how she felt.

When I confronted her, she told me with a straight look on her face "I don't have to tell you anything, how did you find out"? As angry as I was, I had self-restraint. Maybe it was 4+ months of counseling that has changed my whole demeanor. There was some yelling and I called the guy. He answered and I confronted him on the phone. He told me she said she was divorced, no kids, etc. At the same time, she was screaming at me to get off the phone. As I continued to talk to the guy, she assaulted me, hit me in the back, scratched my face and attempted to break my phone. In self-defense, I held my arm out to keep her from hitting me and she fell to the floor. I called the police afterwards but they didn't arrest anyone.

I filed for divorce the next day, but something told me there was more to the story... I scoured the cell phone logs and found another out-of-state number. I looked at the family computer and saw her history of how to use a "flexdisc", which is a device to reduce the amount of blood from sex while on her period. I also found an address that was over 35 minutes away in the heart of downtown. Then I looked at her email and found a deleted email, to herself, about an encounter with someone from FetLife. Cross-referencing notes, it was clear she had 2 different partners while I was out-of-town. The email pretty much was a "trophy" email to herself, with details from how they met, what they did, how she felt, her deepest desires, how many times she had an orgasm, how deep his penis was inside her. What choked me up is that she said she wanted to be an exhibitionist, wanted to have sex with multiple men at the same time, she wanted to try sex with asphyxiation, etc. All I had was the guy's name and where he was from. I called the # and talked to the guy. He was surprisingly open. He confirmed all the details (name, where he's from, how they met, and the sexual encounter). 

When I confronted my wife again, she refused to acknowledge anything. She did however say there was no difference between what she did and what I did with the dating profile. I pointed out I never committed adultery, I just was looking for an emotional connection. She then proceeded to put me down, calling me stupid, delusional, etc.

What came next is something that rocked my world. She had her lawyer file an emergency restraining order later that day. As I was picking up my child from school, I was detained and served with the restraining order papers. She told the judge that I grabbed her and threw her to the floor. She told the judge that my kids and herself are deathly scared for their lives. She told the judge I'm a child abuser. What was also in the restraining order was "evidence" of my anger issues. Come to find out, she has been secretly recording fights we have had for at least 2-3 years. We have security cameras in the home and she was saving clips of the fights onto her cloud storage. Now I question if she has been planning this all along. When you want a relationship to work, you don't save things like that for a "**** hits the fan moment". For those of you that know anything about these restraining orders, you don't get a chance to defend yourself. I have been homeless since then and by the time I get to go to court, it will be 3 weeks.

So right now, I have a great support system of friends and family. Although they are doing their best, I'm battered and broken. My lawyer says I have to prove I'm not any of those things she claimed on the restraining order. My therapist is going to be subpoenaed to testify on my behalf.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

RuckaMuckaSand said:


> Well guys. It's a done deal. I initiated the divorce although I said I wouldn't be the one to do so. I have been continuing to go to counseling and continued to try and make it work with my wife. However over the past 2 months, she has grown to be more aggressive and resorting to mock me, call me names, putting me down. Over the past 2 months, I've continually been battered and beaten, constantly reminded by my wife that I'm not attractive, I'm weak, she's not loved me for years, etc.
> 
> At first, I took it as her continued pain of me having an online dating profile. I admitted fault to that. But as I started reflecting on things, she became more glued to her phone and her Kindle. Come to find out, she's paid probably hundreds of dollars into books like these:
> 
> ...



@RuckaMuckaSand, sorry you are going through horrible experience, I would like to remind you of a fellow member who posted this long ago:



Mr.Married said:


> Ok so yeah... Dating profile = very bad idea. Obviously that would piss her off quite nicely but hey .... you were curious and out in the cold...whatever.
> So there is a really “common truth “ about women and it is said here all the time ..... and is pretty dang accurate.
> When a woman is done ..... she is done. She has most likely been calculating this for a very very long time. I’m not saying this is a evil thing....I’m saying it’s a women’s brain thing. When she loses that interest in you like your wife has .... dude it is like game over.


@RuckaMuckaSand, I don't like to beat someone who is already on the ground, I must say something, you let this hell of a marriage drag on for to long, thus you got smacked in the face by an evil wife who played things very carefully years before..
You see, lots of men failed to see things straight, when you see your spouse not in love with you, and not attracted to you, what you should have done is lick you wounds and move on, don't make excuses like kids, house, cars ..etc
If someone doesn't love you, not attracted to you, you need to have the dignity, self respect and pride to move on and find someone who will!
that is the difference between strength and weakness!
If you had the strength to be willing to move on, and worked on yourself, to be a better version of yourself in action (gym, hobby, healthy diet .. etc) and showed her you are moving on, you maybe could have a shot at saving your marriage, or at least you would have been ready for you next relationship!
You see women are extremely attracted to men with strength and decisiveness!
You showed no strength, you glued to her trying to fix things from one side over and over, showing her you had no other options and that she is the best that you can do = = not attractive!
Even she saw the dating app and went through the messages, and how you were ghosted by all the girls = not attractive!

By trying many times to work on your marriage and accepting her request for one last shot while known that she really wasn't into you, showed her your weakness and desperation = not attractive!
The other men you called had no fear and spelled the beans, they are confident, brave and didn't care, they have options, and they get what they want!
That's why she was attracted to them!

Fix you self and read more about women behavior!
What red flags you need to watch for (like no sex and a vibrator) 
When they say they are not in love with you, or not attracted ..etc


She knew exactly how to play you, and you fill into the trap!
Now you are homeless!
Away from your own house!
She probably inviting men in to your bed right now!
*Work with your lawyer, build a plan and strike back!*

At the end, she is not the woman you thought she was!
*
Work on your self, and be a better version of you self, then start looking for relationships!*

I'm so sorry that you are in this position, it's horrible, your xwife is evil, she made you homeless, she didn't even care that you are the father of her children!
*Believe it or not, if you stand up now, and let your anger guide you to set some goals in your life and work on your self, and your lawyer, things will turn around for you!*


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Wow, this thread should be in the men's section, titled "learn from this"......I was going to tell you what was going to happen, but it already did. Her 'reconcile time" was actually her planning time to work up the perfect strategy. The good news is when they do this, it helps cut the emotional cord. You probably won't, but I am telling you, you NEED to!!! The closer you can get to hate right now, the better you will help yourself. 

Let me tell you, she has initiated an all-out attack on you and your finances, and she will probably get it all, because the system is rigged like that. 

I swear, there are piles of people here that want to excuse the cold truth about relationships and act like they will be "great".... No, statistically they probably WON'T. Men need to plan for the end from day ONE! Women fight for custodial parent because there is no money in 50/50. When that won't work, they use the abuse card. Then we look at modern society. Men are primarily child support machines, and fathers only if it suits mom. 

Dude you need to take a HUGE step backwards so you can see the ball, and you need to grab your bat and helmet. This is not a dance, it is a fight, and she has taken it to the extremes. 

You did nothing wrong with the dating app. She was done, wasn't putting out, and you wanted to know if you still had game. I probably would have done the same back then. Hell, maybe I did. 

BUT PLEASE! If you are able to get control and beat her ass in court, and I mean beat it down GOOD! She very possibly might try to suck you into reconcile. You do NOT take the bait!!!!!!!! You stay away from that venomous being. If you need proof, look at the forum. See how many threads in the divorce section. Then look at the reconcile section! LMAO!!!!! It WILL NOT work. You stay away. 

What I will advise from here on out as I am a legal person. You should record EVERY communication with her from here on out. Even the dumbest stuff. Voice, text, ALL of it. You start stacking up lie after lie, then you file for a hearing. I cannot tell you how many people cannot understand this! Your Ex obviously does!!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@RuckaMuckaSand So your wife was cheating on you, probably for a long time?

I am saddened by this, but not surprised.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@RuckaMuckaSand I have moved your thread to Coping With Infidelity.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

bobsmith said:


> Wow, this thread should be in the men's section, titled "learn from this"......I was going to tell you what was going to happen, but it already did. Her 'reconcile time" was actually her planning time to work up the perfect strategy. The good news is when they do this, it helps cut the emotional cord. You probably won't, but I am telling you, you NEED to!!! The closer you can get to hate right now, the better you will help yourself.
> 
> Let me tell you, she has initiated an all-out attack on you and your finances, and she will probably get it all, because the system is rigged like that.
> 
> ...


Nice attack on all women, @bobsmith. Actually, disgusting.
OP, you really have to lawyer up. I’m sorry what has happened to you.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Yeah the mommy smut books. Hence the new toy to help in the fantasizing about being a character in the books she was reading. I know of several women who started reading Shades of Gray. Hubbys were excited about the uptick in bed....right up to point they started screwing other guys also.
I wanted to tell them "You realize in her mind she is screwing the guy in her fantasy, you are just the real dildo she is using to get the job done"

When those books came out i was dumbfounded at all the women who were addicted to them. I was thinking WTH. Women say they want a good guy that treats them good....well apparently not. Listen to what they do, not what they say sure sounds about right. My view of alot of women i know sure took a hit.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> Yeah the mommy smut books. Hence the new toy to help in the fantasizing about being a character in the books she was reading. I know of several women who started reading Shades of Gray. Hubbys were excited about the uptick in bed....right up to point they started screwing other guys also.
> I wanted to tell them "You realize in her mind she is screwing the guy in her fantasy, you are just the real dildo she is using to get the job done"
> 
> When those books came out i was dumbfounded at all the women who were addicted to them. I was thinking WTH. Women say they want a good guy that treats them good....well apparently not. Listen to what they do, not what they say sure sounds about right. My view of alot of women i know sure took a hit.


Ummmm. I don’t think reading makes women have affairs. Do people who read murder mystery go out and kill people? Do people who read sci fi put on their space suits with laser guns and eradicate invading aliens? 
This reminds me of something, oh yeah history. Maybe we should revert back to the times when women weren’t allowed to read because they might get “ideas” and start “thinking” and that’s a man’s job. 
Sorry, I take offense to this, personally. Because I am a nerd and read everything in just about every genre, I even read a gay romance book once and I didn’t turn gay! Interesting that. That we can decipher real life from fiction.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

This marriage is dead. She killed it. Then you poured the dirt on the grave. Just accept that and move on.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

18 years ago I got the im not in love with you speexh. I begged and coerced her into staying. It's been a long miserable 18 years. She said she wanted a divorce. Give it to her and move on. You'll thank me.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Thound said:


> 18 years ago I got the im not in love with you speexh. I begged and coerced her into staying. It's been a long miserable 18 years. She said she wanted a divorce. Give it to her and move on. You'll thank me.


Yikes man, why don't you just end it now?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Meh. Im old and don't care anymore


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

QuietRiot said:


> Ummmm. I don’t think reading makes women have affairs. Do people who read murder mystery go out and kill people? Do people who read sci fi put on their space suits with laser guns and eradicate invading aliens?
> This reminds me of something, oh yeah history. Maybe we should revert back to the times when women weren’t allowed to read because they might get “ideas” and start “thinking” and that’s a man’s job.
> Sorry, I take offense to this, personally. Because I am a nerd and read everything in just about every genre, I even read a gay romance book once and I didn’t turn gay! Interesting that. That we can decipher real life from fiction.


But someone who is susceptible to deviant behavior it it can be the weight that shifted the scales. 
Someone who is prone to alcoholism saying ah its only 1 beer.
There is a reason we restrict our sex offenders from watching porn. It it to try and break the cycle before it gets to another victim. Porn adds fuel to the cycle and speeds it up. 
It does not in itself cause anyone to commit adultry but it fuels the thoughts of an individual with weak moral fiber.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> But someone who is susceptible to deviant behavior it it can be the weight that shifted the scales.
> Someone who is prone to alcoholism saying ah its only 1 beer.
> There is a reason we restrict our sex offenders from watching porn. It it to try and break the cycle before it gets to another victim. Porn adds fuel to the cycle and speeds it up.
> It does not in itself cause anyone to commit adultry but it fuels the thoughts of an individual with weak moral fiber.


I think the OP wife did these things because she felt like it and wanted to. I don’t believe she was coerced to the dark side with her kinky fiction books. She sounds like a total and complete beotch and now it’s gone to psycho territory. Those poor kids are probably being subjected to brainwashing now too. 

Sorry this is happening to you OP. Hoping your lawyer can dig you out.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Guy deserves an apology or two. He flailed. To be expected. I thought the advice was good, but the harshing on him for flailing was misplaced. Sorry, dude. At least you have some clarity.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@RuckaMuckaSand, seriously dude, I stopped reading when you said you went on a dating site though you were still trying to work on the marriage with your wife. I think the problem lies with you and the way you have treated your wife throughout the marriage. Any man whose ego is so fragile that he needs to support it by going on dates in the middle of what was a life changing event of a marriage collapse, does not deserve to be married. 
You really ****ed up. In addition, from reading through what you wrote, you have overruled her in everything, not supported her when she needed you, threatened divorce when you didn't get what you wanted, you have basically destroyed any love she had for you. Then she finds the app which confirms everything she was already thinking, that you don't love her and are willing to move on so quickly. Actions say everything and your actions have basically but a bomb in an already fragile marriage.
You need serious counselling so you own your own **** and move on.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

QuietRiot said:


> I think the OP wife did these things because she felt like it and wanted to. I don’t believe she was coerced to the dark side with her kinky fiction books. She sounds like a total and complete beotch and now it’s gone to psycho territory. Those poor kids are probably being subjected to brainwashing now too.
> 
> Sorry this is happening to you OP. Hoping your lawyer can dig you out.


WTF! have you actually read the OP's statement. He treated his wife like ****

1. no support when she lost her job
2. no MC when she asked for it
3. Gives her grief about a dildo, look at how fragile his ego is
3. goes on dating app in the middle of marriage crisis

He has no respect nor love for her, he is just protecting his fragile ego and is scared to be a lone. When a woman is neglected by her spouse and not supported then she withdraws, this is what happened here.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

aine said:


> @RuckaMuckaSand, seriously dude, I stopped reading when you said you went on a dating site though you were still trying to work on the marriage with your wife. I think the problem lies with you and the way you have treated your wife throughout the marriage. Any man whose ego is so fragile that he needs to support it by going on dates in the middle of what was a life changing event of a marriage collapse, does not deserve to be married.
> You really ****ed up. In addition, from reading through what you wrote, you have overruled her in everything, not supported her when she needed you, threatened divorce when you didn't get what you wanted, you have basically destroyed any love she had for you. Then she finds the app which confirms everything she was already thinking, that you don't love her and are willing to move on so quickly. Actions say everything and your actions have basically but a bomb in an already fragile marriage.
> You need serious counselling so you own your own **** and move on.


Your comparing a dating app with what she did?!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Kaliber said:


> Your comparing a dating app with what she did?!


What did she do exactly? Fell out of love with him after all his divorce threats and decided to shut down................that is what happens when a spouse is emotionally abused. Enough of the victim blaming.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

aine said:


> What did she do exactly? Fell out of love with him after all his divorce threats and decided to shut down................that is what happens when a spouse is emotionally abused. Enough of the victim blaming.


It was a mess, to be sure. It seems to my read that by the time they got to counseling, she was at the point of saying there is no point to this, laid out her plans for divorce, custody, separation of assets, moving out of state, and so on and understood he had to accept that. Then the dating site thing, which seems like it was a bit of misfire. I am not clear on when her extramarital sex life began. Went from 0 to 60 pretty fast if that was only after the dating site thing.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

aine said:


> WTF! have you actually read the OP's statement. He treated his wife like ****
> 
> 1. no support when she lost her job
> 2. no MC when she asked for it
> ...


Well, I am assuming he didn’t assault her and she’s doing false accusations... in that alone I feel like she has surpassed anything that happened prior, the marriage was doomed anyhow but I don’t think kids should be turned against any decent father. And romance novels don’t make people cheat. Those were my points, not saying the OP behavior was great.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Harken Banks said:


> It was a mess, to be sure. It seems to my read that by the time they got to counseling, she was at the point of saying there is no point to this, laid out her plans for divorce, custody, separation of assets, moving out of state, and so on and understood he had to accept that. Then the dating site thing, which seems like it was a bit of misfire. I am not clear on when her extramarital sex life began. Went from 0 to 60 pretty fast if that was only after the dating site thing.


😱


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

_"When looking for a laptop charger cord did I find a new vibrator toy that she never had before. It was quite elaborate. I got very angry about it. " _

is this the male version of the "i caught my husband masturbating, and feel he was cheating on me" story?

Yes, you two being apart while at least one of you worked outside was a coping mechanism that let you two skid along. now that you are in solitary confinement together....there is not release of any pent up anger...no time outs for one or both of you to calm down.

How about going to Adam and Eve, and buying her a new EXPENSIVE sex toy. at least it will make up for you going off the deep end when you found her vibrator. I hear the Lelo vibrators are good.

You are going to need to give her personal space. Do you have an at-home office area? If so, work from there all day. only come out for lunch and coffee. And when you are coming out of the office, make some noise so she knows you are coming...in case she is...otherwise busy....

Let her do what she wants, but when the work day is over really come up with some new fun things to do with her. Spend some quality time with her.

Consider too....she might have been depressed about losing her job 3 years ago, and with coronavirus going on and NOBODY hiring...she is even more depressed that she can not even look for a job. Does she have some talent that she could make money at? Encourage her to start her own business from your garage....

Sounds like if you two can keep out of each other's space for most of the day, you could get back to enjoying each other in the evenings.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

aine said:


> "her extramarital sex life" don't you mean "his extramarital"?


I didn't, but maybe I am not reading this right. It seems to me that there had been communication problems and rising tension. He was frustrated with lack of intimacy (quite possibly linked to poor communication) and reacted immaturely by saying if we're not going to have sex I want a divorce. It doesn't seem like he is proud of that and seems to admit that was childish. He opposed her decision not to work outside of the home after she lost her job. Communication and marriage problems mount, tensions rise. We place all of this on him, and maybe that is fair. She had suggested counseling and he did not think it was necessary. Things get to a point where he finally realizes the marriage is in jeopardy. Shame on him, guys can be dumb like that. Asks for counseling, she seems to feel its too little, too late, and maybe it is. Tensions and lack of intimacy continue. He possibly thinks lack of intimacy is because she is not feeling sexual. Finds the vibrator as evidence that he is wrong about that, she is just not interested in being sexual with him, and he is hurt. Reacts badly again. Guys can be dumb like that. So, at this point, if you want to say, this guy was an idiot about the problems in his marriage and failure to be attuned to the needs of his wife, that may be fair. He seems to set that up in the backstory, so it doesn't seem he is denying that he has a role in the breakdown. He does seem to say that once he got into the counseling process, he began to appreciate how he had been coming up short. Seems to acknowledge that his awakening may not be enough at this time to fix the damage, but wants to try. Maybe naively. Wife at this point is saying this isn't working, the marriage is dead and she is making plans regarding custody, assets, and relocating, possibly taking the children out of state when she goes. Some hot and cold in this process, but mostly stark cold I want you out of my life punctuated by a few possibly confusing episodes of swinging 180 degrees back to I want to try on our marriage. But then back to a very clear and deliberate and express intention of plan of action to divorce. He resigns to that and does the dating site thing, albeit badly, it seems. She 180s back in a big way with the intimacy and warmth and happiness he had been missing and things are looking up briefly until she finds out he was on a dating site and interacting with other women during the period after she had begun to execute on her seemingly final and seemingly inexorable plan of separation and divorce. She explodes. Do I have that right? Wacky things happen. Then there is the abuse allegation or whatever and restraining order. It's ugly. He discovers that she seems to have a very colorful sex life. At this point, that is her business. Clearly he was blind to a lot, specifically including as to her sexuality. Again, shame on him, I suppose. I may have missed the part of the story about his extramarital sex life, unless that is where after she seemed to have made it clear they were getting divorced and he was persona non grata he did the hapless dating site thing. In any event, she seemed to have been involved in some robust sexual activity. If the marriage is over, as it seems to be, that is her business at this point, in my view. He started out his narrative suggesting he was concerned about possible infidelity and there were intimacy problems. It came to light, those intimacy problems were not on account of her lack of interest in sex, just lack of interest in sex with him. Maybe quite understandable as to why. I don't really know, but he points to some mistakes he believes he made. It may be that the sex she was having with other men and not with him began all after she discovered he had been on a dating site (which was after she seemed to have laid down pretty clearly she was out and working on the custody, assets, get out of my life and stay in your room out of sight plan until you can get out of the house plan). It wasn't clear to me.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

aine said:


> What did she do exactly? Fell out of love with him after all his divorce threats and decided to shut down................that is what happens when a spouse is emotionally abused. Enough of the victim blaming.


She banged two guys while he was out of town, and then when he filed for divorce she got a restraining order claiming physical and child abuse and had him detained in front of his kids school. Interesting the timing there.
You can see her as a victim, but I do not believe he deserves this.
I don’t believe any man deserves this regardless of being a cheater, or bad husband, I would never do this to my kids father.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

As for his dating site adventure, that was after she had declared the counseling attempts a failure and the marriage is dead. More, she seemed to have made clear he was dead to her as she had ceased communication and banished him from the living areas of his house. She said she was going to sell their house and use the proceeds and their savings to buy a new house as they could no longer live in the same house. The guy seems to have been resigned to accept that she had decided the marriage was over and she was divorcing and taking what she could. So he does something that might be viewed as healthy, and starts looking toward managing that process financially and otherwise and to life beyond the failed marriage. He chatted with some women on a dating site. I do not judge him harshly for that given his understanding of where things were and that his efforts to work things out were pointless exercises in self-flagellation. So, it doesn't ring all that convincingly to me when someone says he had this coming because he cheated first. His first choice was the marriage. It was made clear that was not an option. Shame on him for saying, OK, I don't like it, but let's take a look at what the future may look like.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

I am all for reconciliation, but after reading this thread, it appears it is time for you to move towards an amicable divorce (if there is such a thing). From what I glean from your posts it appears unhealthy for each of you and no telling the impact it is having on your children.

The dating site was a bonehead move for certain. You both deserve better.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

QuietRiot said:


> She banged two guys while he was out of town, and then when he filed for divorce she got a restraining order claiming physical and child abuse and had him detained in front of his kids school. Interesting the timing there.
> You can see her as a victim, but I do not believe he deserves this.
> I don’t believe any man deserves this regardless of being a cheater, or bad husband, I would never do this to my kids father.


I seem to have missed that specific post. time to move on


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

aine said:


> I seem to have missed that specific post. would you point me to the post number where she “banged 2 guys.”


#52


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