# Dirty talk makes me feel cheap



## chickenlittle (Mar 5, 2011)

The other night is a good example of what has been going on for a while. 
The "love-making" was nice at first. But it went from being nice to it being really dirty and rough. I thought (as usual when this happens), well, maybe he needs this. But afterwards, things just kept running through my mind, and I felt really panicky. I had to take medication to stop what felt like a full-on panic attack. I kept telling myself, don't over-analyze, because this happens when you are really tired. Just get to sleep and think about it later. Well, I woke up this morning with all of it still swimming. Maybe it isn't even each of the things individually, but all of them together. He pulled my hair, choked me a little, told me to tell him who was his b*tch, and in general was pretty demeaning. We have been together for a year and a half now, and although he always makes sure that in the moment I am "ok", I am trying to give him what he needs but it is making me feel like a wh*re. I have told him I don't like dirty talk, and yet I can only remember a few times when we slept together and he wasn't chattering away the entire time about dirty stuff. He is so explicit. The talking just takes me out of the moment, and I am only climaxing maybe 10% of the time. In the beginning it was amazing and I felt really connected to him (and the talk wasn't dirty until probably like, 6-8 months into it and progressed slowly but steadily) but now, I just feel objectified. I have no idea how to talk to him about this. Any suggestions???? I want to make it work, but I am worried this is an underlying part of his personality and the way that he wants to and does talk to me during sex is indicative of his respect for women, and/or the role he wants to play during sex. On the other hand, it could also be that he is watching too much porn, he is older than me by eight years and has had many single years to himself, and I know that he is a big porn watcher. This bothers me, and I have told him that, but he says it is just my insecurity. 

I love him very much and he is sweet and caring and attentive and treats me extremely well otherwise. I am just so confused and sad, watching my efforts in the bedroom becoming more of an act than genuine enjoyment.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I am sorry that you feel this way. 

But tell you honestly, most men like this kind of thing. They love dirty talks. If you let your husband do that, you win his heart. 

What do you want to have? His heart or his drifting away. A lot of men are frustrated that their wives don't talk dirty. 

If I slept around, that's cheap. If I don't have my husband's love, that's cheap. 

If he treats me like a queen in other areas, whatever he says and does in bed is only to make him feel horny and cum faster, I enjoy all the dirty talks and hair grabbing. I don't feel I am cheap, I actually feel I am very expensive. I have my man's heart!


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> What do you want to have? His heart or his drifting away. A lot of men are frustrated that their wives don't talk dirty.


Chickenlittle, please pay no attention to this. Under no circumstances should anyone try to convince you to forfeit your dignity and live with the way he degrades you and makes you feel just to be with a man. 

The only way to look at your situation is to consider the facts that you told him you don't like it and you asked him to stop, yet he continues. What do you think that is?

You are being abused in exactly the same manner batterers abuse their wives. The only difference is you don't end up with black eyes and visible bruises. However, abuse is not hardly limited to the physical aspects. Abuse is also verbal, mental/emotional, sexual.

Just like all other abused victims, you were duped into this abusive relationship. No man socks a woman in the eye when he meets her. He knows he has to be cunning and deceptive for the first while in order to gain her love and trust. He knows he has to wear the Mr. Wonderful facade to get you. And what did you state to us here? 



chickenlittle said:


> "In the beginning it was amazing and I felt really connected to him (and the talk wasn't dirty until probably like, 6-8 months into it and progressed slowly but steadily) but now, I just feel objectified.


Once he gets you to fall in love with him, he begins his abusive behavior. You are, by then, powerless to view the relationship objectively and unable to tear yourself away because you convince yourself you love him too much and that he is otherwise a nice person.

Another characterisitic of an abuser is to ignore or dismiss your concerns when you express them to him. He will turn your words to mush as being of much less importance than you are making the situation, try to convince you that you are overreacting or something. Sometimes, he might promise to change but doesn't ever change. Or, he will simply ignore you and continue the behavior that you complained about. 

Most abusers try to turn your complaint into something that is your fault to exempt himself and make you feel like the guilty party in order to create the ideal situation for himself so he can continue abusing you. What could be better for him than you allowing/putting up with his abuse, while you are the one feeling guilty or feeling somehow inadequate or unwilling to please him? If he hasn't done it already, be prepared for him calling you a prude or making sure you know all his other girlfriends enjoyed his methods. He will be lying of course, but what does that matter to him? He knows and fully expects you will believe him to make sure you end up feeling like there is something wrong with YOU and not him. Once he has convinced you of that, you will allow him to continue without complaint.



chickenlittle said:


> I am worried this is an underlying part of his personality and the way that he wants to and does talk to me during sex is indicative of his respect for women, and/or the role he wants to play during sex.


You give him too much the benefit of doubt and have convinced yourself there is something "underlying" in his personality. Do you not live the blatant, outward expressions every time you have sex with him?



chickenlittle said:


> On the other hand, it could also be that he is watching too much porn, he is older than me by eight years and has had many single years to himself, and I know that he is a big porn watcher. This bothers me, and I have told him that, but he says it is just my insecurity.


See what I mean how easily he turned it into being all your fault??? He completely dismissed your complaint and blamed it all on you. 

And.....he's still abusing you.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Firstly I will say that I personally would have no problem with the sex you had, but that kind of thing turns me on.

However this is because I know my SO loves me and he spends a lot of time hugging me and kissing and making me feel loved (plus we mix it up).

If you are not comfortable and are also not climaxing, this is a big problem and he should care about that. My SO loves it when I cum too. He cares about my needs as well as his. 

Lastly the porn. It is a huge issue in a lot of relationships. It seems to me that rather then worry about your needs or treat you like a real person he is treating you like a sexual object, just like the women he views in porn. 

It is not because you are particularly insecure, in fact i think that's a ridiculous statement. Porn should make women uncomfortable and insecure, because it commodifies women, turns them into purely F&*kable objects, uses women who are barely (if even) out of their teens, has women doing things and in positions that most women are not comfortable with, and it does change how men view women and sex. besides most insecure people go along with things they don't like and know aren't right in an effort to please. It shows you as being the opposite and really knowing your self and your value when you say no to something that bothers you like porn.

Here are some links to some other threads where I have posted some links to articles and info about the harm porn can do to sexual intimacy.



Syrum said:


> Studies do show that porn makes sex worse not better for a lot of people, and that men even subconsciously compare their wives to the women they watch.
> 
> How Porn Is Affecting the Libido of the American Male -- New York Magazine
> Heres just one interesting article.
> ...


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/23714-porn-perception-11.html

If he cares about you, he will stop watching porn and focus on you and your needs too. f you felt really connected and loved and cared about, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't mind the dirty talk etc sometimes.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

If I understand correctly, early in the relationship the sex was loving and mutually satisfying and slowly became rough and dirty. In addition, you have made it clear that this is not what you want. Moreover, having sex with this man makes you feel badly and you are getting no pleasure out of it 90% of the time, he is 8yrs older than you and he is a porn addict. Is that right? 

I have a question - why are you still having sex with him? He makes you feel dirty, he ignores what you want, he is concerned with his pleasure only and he did a bait and switch. He did not reveal himself until he thought you were into him enough that you would let him do you any way he wants. Please don't give the standard answer because you love him, love is not enough as you can see. He is not having sex with you, he is using you as a live porn doll. 

It not the dirty talk or hair pulling, many men and women like that, and some don't. But you notice I said both like it. What ever is going on here it is not love or intimacy no matter what he says. When a man is in love he is concerned about making the woman happy sexually and wishes to feel connected to her. Your man is using you for his pleasure, he has slowly groomed you to this point. 

I have to ask again, how do you allow your body to be used by this man? What do you get? You feel dirty, disrespected, disregarded and used, yet you continue to let him use your body!!! Stop having sex with him and strongly consider finding someone more compatable. that will cure the problem. Examine wheater you want to deal with a man with his problems - porn addicted, relationship challenged, objectifies women. If you stay don't expect change addicts promise but you don't want to base your future on the promises of an addict. 

You have not been in the relationship long and the man he reveals himself to be now is the real him. If you stay he will role out more of himself, he probably has plans to use you sexually for other more extreme porn fantasies. These are serious problems, any woman in a relationship with him will have to deal with them. It is early on, why not get out now and not 10 years from now when you are totally beaten down from trying to get him to treat you like a human and not a set of holes. 

I don't know why he was alone for so long but, his porn addiction may have affected his ability to sustain a relationship. You should know something about his relationship history. Don't expect your relationship to be any different. There are many good, sexually healthy men out there. You have to ask yourself why you did not leave when he first showed signs of sexual problems so many months ago. 

You are not helpless, it is your body you are not required to provide a man pleasure using it. It is mutual or it does not happen. Women up, stop giving up control of your body, there is no reason why you should feel degraded while he is using you that's ridiculous, why do you let it happen? Is his pleasure more important than you feelings of degradation? He thinks so but I hope you don't. Stop letting yourself be used by a porn addicted loser.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

If you aren't in to it, tell him no more in no uncertain terms. Me however, I love everything but the ***** part. I'm not anyone's birtch. I just like it rough. Cue Gaga song.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chickenlittle (Mar 5, 2011)

I am going to talk to him about it today, we'll see what happens. I am going to try the clear line-drawing approach, but also see if we can find a compromise that we both are satisfied with. I guess his response will tell a lot.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I wouldn't put up with that. I don't like any demeaning talk towards me it's just not who I am. It would make me extremely uncomfortable. I'm not some live porn doll. If I say I don't like it...it means stop don't keep doing it.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

chickenlittle said:


> I am going to talk to him about it today, we'll see what happens. I am going to try the clear line-drawing approach, but also see if we can find a compromise that we both are satisfied with. I guess his response will tell a lot.


Yes, your husband should tone down a little bit if that bothers you so much. But it is really a guy's thing. They like to play like this. 

But you also should work on your mindset, if you want to keep your bedroom life fun and interesting, you have to loosen up a little bit. 

Whatever happens in your bedroom starts and stops in your bedroom, you can feel dirty, you can feel joy, it all depends on you. Sex is important for a relationship, after the passionate period is over, you have to be creative in this area.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

chick,
I suggest you do it to him, it sound like it may be out of character for you ,but it would be interesting to see how he likes it.

I'm quessing he calls you dirty names along with the dirty talk? Well throw it out there and and see what happens. Most likely it will be uncomfortable and weird for you to be the dom, it just would be interesting to see how he reacts...most likely turn him on, until you tell him to "get on your knees wimp boy and lick" LOL


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> Yes, your husband should tone down a little bit if that bothers you so much. But it is really a guy's thing. They like to play like this.
> 
> But you also should work on your mindset, if you want to keep your bedroom life fun and interesting, you have to loosen up a little bit.
> 
> Whatever happens in your bedroom starts and stops in your bedroom, you can feel dirty, you can feel joy, it all depends on you. Sex is important for a relationship, after the passionate period is over, you have to be creative in this area.


Why should she do something that obviously makes her uncomfortable? She feels used and degraded so she should just "lighten up"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reader27 (Apr 26, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> Yes, your husband should tone down a little bit if that bothers you so much. But it is really a guy's thing. They like to play like this.


SOME guys like to do things like that. There are also plenty who don't. If she hates that sort of thing then she should find a guy who doesn't feel the need to treat her in such a degrading fashion.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

pidge70 said:


> Why should she do something that obviously makes her uncomfortable? She feels used and degraded so she should just "lighten up"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sex is fun, dirty talk enhances the fun, I don't know why it is so difficult for her to lighten up. It is obvious that her husband enjoys this. 

Is she being used? Is she being degraded? Does her husband treat her poorly in other areas? No, she said her husband loves her in other areas! 

We really have to distinguish being treated poorly in general and having sexual fun in bed.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I am sorry that you feel this way.
> 
> But tell you honestly, most men like this kind of thing. They love dirty talks. If you let your husband do that, you win his heart.
> 
> ...


I love dirty talk too, but not all the choking and "who's the little *****" stuff. That would be way too much for me.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

reader27 said:


> SOME guys like to do things like that. There are also plenty who don't. If she hates that sort of thing then she should find a guy who doesn't feel the need to treat her in such a degrading fashion.


Reader, they are married! 

You know it very well, if a man likes this stuff, he will feel deprived if he can't do it anymore. It is only dirty talk, and it only stays in the bedroom, it is not like that he is disrespectful in other areas and other places. 

My husband cherishes me a lot because I really make his sex life fun and enjoyable. And there is another big reason. I don't complain, neither do I whine. I don't have all these. If he cheated on me, then I would feel cheap, if he neglected me, then I would feel I am a woman he didn't desire.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Mrs.G said:


> I love dirty talk too, but not all the choking and "who's the little *****" stuff. That would be way too much for me.


That's why I said her husband should tone down a little bit.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Sex is fun, dirty talk enhances the fun, I don't know why it is so difficult for her to lighten up. It is obvious that her husband enjoys this.
> 
> Is she being used? Is she being degraded? Does her husband treat her poorly in other areas? No, she said her husband loves her in other areas!
> 
> We really have to distinguish being treated poorly in general and having sexual fun in bed.


My sweet Greenie, just because she isn't as open as you, it doesn't mean that her concerns are not valid. You and I have a lot in common, but I think that you are a lot more obedient than I am. That is just fine, but most women do not think like you. 
The husband is being degrading in my eyes. Mr.G and I talk dirty, but it's more like "You like that? You like my big..." Aww, never mind.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Mrs.G said:


> My sweet Greenie, just because she isn't as open as you, it doesn't mean that her concerns are not valid. You and I have a lot in common, but I think that you are a lot more obedient than I am. That is just fine, but most women do not think like you.
> The husband is being degrading in my eyes. Mr.G and I talk dirty, but it's more like "You like that? You like my big..." Aww, never mind.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I am more concerned about their future. 

I have been reading for so long here, very often I see men complain that their wives don't talk dirty, don't give BJ, don't wear sexy lingerie, and the worst, don't have sex. We know sex is important for a relationship, when sex is not a problem in a relationship, we are quite positive that this relationship can last. The biggest reason people divorce is sex incompatibility. 

The OP's case is like catch 22. If he talks dirty, she feels cheap. If he doesn't talk dirty, we know he is going to struggle. 

So they have to meet in between. Maybe your way of talking dirty is better!


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> If I understand correctly, early in the relationship the sex was loving and mutually satisfying and slowly became rough and dirty. In addition, you have made it clear that this is not what you want. Moreover, having sex with this man makes you feel badly and you are getting no pleasure out of it 90% of the time, he is 8yrs older than you and he is a porn addict. Is that right?
> 
> I have a question - why are you still having sex with him? He makes you feel dirty, he ignores what you want, he is concerned with his pleasure only and he did a bait and switch. He did not reveal himself until he thought you were into him enough that you would let him do you any way he wants. Please don't give the standard answer because you love him, love is not enough as you can see. He is not having sex with you, he is using you as a live porn doll.
> 
> ...


What does the age difference have to do with the sexual abuse?? Not all older men are manipulative and controlling; only the worst ones are. My husband is 8 years my senior and he treats me like gold. 

When you say "why do you let it happen?" it sounds like victim blaming. It doesn't seem compassionate to the fact that constant abuse lowers self esteem, which is what leads a woman to continue to allow the mistreatment. I know this because I have been there. 

When I finally disclosed childhood sexual abuse, I was blamed for not being "strong enough to say no". I was also told that it was "only an allegation" and the woman who gave birth to me fed my abuser Christmas dinner. I no longer have contact with those who reacted in this manner.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Originally Posted by Mrs.G 
I love dirty talk too, but not all the choking and "who's the little *****" stuff. That would be way too much for me. 



greenpearl said:


> That's why I said her husband should tone down a little bit.


GreenPearl, I wish you would leave this thread alone. You are not helping at all. What you keep telling this woman, ChickenLittle, is she has to be degraded in order to keep her husband. That is an awful message to send to any woman. You are redefining what she wrote to tailor it to mean what you want it all to mean. But dirty talk never, ever has to be and never, ever should be degrading to anyone. What you call toning down may well still be degrading to her. So, being called a bi*ch (and other things he says) 4 times might be toned down in your book but is not better than calling her those names 6 times or 8. We enjoy talking dirty also, but more like the way Mrs.G describes. There is nothing degrading about that. It is fun and serves to enhance the experience for him. You should stop trying to determine and define what it is, what it means to her, and how it makes her feel. You should also stop trying to tell her how she should feel about it. You are not in their bedroom. She already has the man in her life dismissing and minimizing her concerns and blaming her for the outcome of his actions.

The bottom line is no one should do ANYTHING that makes them feel uncomfortable or belittled. If she does not like his manner, no one should encourage her to tolerate it, much less tell her in so many words to get with his program, as if she should value him more than herself, her own worth, and her own self esteem. That is ludicrious.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Not to mention she stated it was causing her anxiety issues. If her H is unwilling to see it has such an impact on her then he is just selfish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mrs.G said:


> What does the age difference have to do with the sexual abuse?? Not all older men are manipulative and controlling; only the worst ones are. My husband is 8 years my senior and he treats me like gold.
> 
> When you say "why do you let it happen?" it sounds like victim blaming. It doesn't seem compassionate to the fact that constant abuse lowers self esteem, which is what leads a woman to continue to allow the mistreatment. I know this because I have been there.
> 
> When I finally disclosed childhood sexual abuse, I was blamed for not being "strong enough to say no". I was also told that it was "only an allegation" and the woman who gave birth to me fed my abuser Christmas dinner. I no longer have contact with those who reacted in this manner.


But that's just it - if she considers herself a victim then she will never set boundaries and say no. That is a big problem for many women. Her low self esteem most likely predated her relationship with this man. 

A women with high self esteem would have stopped this creep mid-stork. My message to this lady and tp all women, you are not powerless. 

Your body is yours and you should never let anyone near you because you can't say no. 

The men have "Man up" message; women need a "women up" message. We are not powerless, 
* our bodies are ours we have say over what we do 
* no sexual contact unless you want it 
* no to coercion or shaming to have sex or do sexual acts 
* don't let any man touch you because you want to be liked

I was not compassionate because she does not need that. She needs a kick in the butt to remind her of her power to make this horror stop. Can you imagine having intimate relations with a man who degrades you month after month!! 

All she needs to do is tell him no more sex, if he wants to live out his porn fantasies he can go find someone. 

Compassion goes to those that are helpless abuse victims.There is nothing in any post that I have ever written on this forum that would indicate that I blame victims of child abuse or that I lack compassion. 

I am sincerely sorry for the horrible experience that you suffered, you were a victim and your lovely child's innocence was used by the predator who did this. You my dear, will get the most tender compassion of God and good women and men.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> But that's just it - if she considers herself a victim then she will never set boundaries and say no. That is a big problem for many women. Her low self esteem most likely predated her relationship with this man.
> I agree that the self esteem issues keep her with this man and were there before.
> 
> A women with high self esteem would have stopped this creep mid-stork. My message to this lady and tp all women, you are not powerless. I agree with this too. I regret allowing men in the past to use and abuse me....I'm trying to appreciate what I have now instead of whining about my past.
> ...


 Aww, I'm good now. My abuser lost his father and is sick with lupus...my God is a wrathful God. Every person who has abused me has suffered greatly. :smthumbup:


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

River1977 said:


> Originally Posted by Mrs.G
> I love dirty talk too, but not all the choking and "who's the little *****" stuff. That would be way too much for me.
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with what you said in your post!


Hope they can work out their problem!

My husband and I talk dirty a lot, but he is always respectful towards me, more like jokes. It is like " Are you hungry? Do you want to eat, I have a big piece of meat for you! ", he likes to spank my bum, he likes to grab my hair when he is doing me doggy. I enjoy all the fun. I don't find it demeaning, I find it enjoyable. My husband says I love sex myself, so maybe this is the big difference.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

She didn't say she didn't enjoy sex, she stated she doesn't like being called names, getting choked or getting her hair pulled.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

pidge70 said:


> She didn't say she didn't enjoy sex, she stated she doesn't like being called names, getting choked or getting her hair pulled.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't like the choking part. Hair pulling depends if it hurts or not. My husband won't do anything to hurt me! If I say it hurts, he stops right away and becomes more gentle! Sometimes he gets too excited and wild...........................

My husband has never called me any names. He respects me a lot that he won't do this kind of thing. My husband doesn't like all the rough things those porn men do to women. He gets turned off by them. 

We have a lot of dirty talks, I can't write all the detail, it is a lot of fun!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

pidge70 said:


> She didn't say she didn't enjoy sex, she stated she doesn't like being called names, getting choked or getting her hair pulled.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ergo she does not like sex with him. All the more reason to drop this loser and move on to someone with whom she can actually have mutually enjoyable sex. 

Why watch him have orgasms using her, he can masturbate to the porn he is so fond of.


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## reader27 (Apr 26, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> Reader, they are married!


How do you know that they are married? I don't see anywhere where she says that guy is her husband. If they have only been together for a year and a half they might not be married yet.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

reader27 said:


> How do you know that they are married? I don't see anywhere where she says that guy is her husband. If they have only been together for a year and a half they might not be married yet.


Ha, you proved me wrong! 

I went back and read the post again, she didn't mention they are married.

My husband and I didn't start talking dirty until we got married.

I talked to my husband about this, he said "who is his *****?" is too much, he can't accept this kind of dirty talk. It really shows the dominant attitude of this man.


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## Ben (May 8, 2011)

Mrs.G said:


> most women do not think like you.


That is quite a bold claim to know how other women _think_.

Many women are open-minded, many are close-minded. I can never predict it until I start dating them, they can act totally different in public than to the bedroom.

If you claim to know how other women think, thinking that your in the average par range, I think that is nieve. I think men would have more authority on opinion also, unless of course your lesbian.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Ben said:


> That is quite a bold claim to know how other women _think_.
> 
> Many women are open-minded, many are close-minded. I can never predict it until I start dating them, they can act totally different in public than to the bedroom.
> 
> If you claim to know how other women think, thinking that your in the average par range, I think that is nieve. I think men would have more authority on opinion also, unless of course your lesbian.


Yes, men know more about how women think than women. :rofl: Do you hear yourself when you speak?? I know that greenpearl is very submissive and most Western women reject that way of life. Ask for clarification before you make ridiculous assumptions. The only "nieve"  person here is you, especially to imply that I am gay. I am happily married to a MAN and I take offense to being called a lesbian.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> The men have "Man up" message; women need a "women up" message. We are not powerless,
> * our bodies are ours we have say over what we do
> * no sexual contact unless you want it
> * no to coercion or shaming to have sex or do sexual acts
> * don't let any man touch you because you want to be liked


:iagree:

These should be the tenets for "womaning up".

Here's the actual guidelines on "manning up"from over in the Men's Clubhouse that I think are appropriate for either gender. They are specific, actionable steps that you can do to empower yourself and show your spouse that you are working on a "healthier" you.

*Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. 
*No frequent phone calls. 
*Don't point out "good points" in marriage. 
*Don't follow her/him around the house. 
*Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future. 
*Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS. 
*Don't ask for reassurances.
*Don't buy or give gifts. 
*Don't schedule dates together. 
*Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable. 
*Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life! 
*Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent. 
*Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy! 
*When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to! 
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested. 
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them! 
* Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. * Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing. 
* No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value. 
* All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation! 
* Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF! 
* Don't be overly enthusiastic. 
* Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all! 
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more! 
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything. 
* Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil. 
* Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly. 
* Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write. 
*Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy. 
* Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care! 
* Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behaviour. 
* Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!" 
* Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message. 
* When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behaviour that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Chickenlittle should def. speak up. If you are uncomfortable then tell him.

Your SO talks dirty to heighten his orgasm. He more than likely can't get off, at least not strongly, if he doesn't talk dirty. This is a form of foreplay for him.

But if this is a problem for you, then it is a problem for the two of you.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

chickenlittle said:


> The other night is a good example of what has been going on for a while.
> The "love-making" was nice at first. But it went from being nice to it being really dirty and rough. I thought (as usual when this happens), well, maybe he needs this. But afterwards, things just kept running through my mind, and I felt really panicky. I had to take medication to stop what felt like a full-on panic attack. I kept telling myself, don't over-analyze, because this happens when you are really tired. Just get to sleep and think about it later. Well, I woke up this morning with all of it still swimming. Maybe it isn't even each of the things individually, but all of them together. He pulled my hair, choked me a little, told me to tell him who was his b*tch, and in general was pretty demeaning. We have been together for a year and a half now, and although he always makes sure that in the moment I am "ok", I am trying to give him what he needs but it is making me feel like a wh*re. I have told him I don't like dirty talk, and yet I can only remember a few times when we slept together and he wasn't chattering away the entire time about dirty stuff. He is so explicit. The talking just takes me out of the moment, and I am only climaxing maybe 10% of the time. In the beginning it was amazing and I felt really connected to him (and the talk wasn't dirty until probably like, 6-8 months into it and progressed slowly but steadily)
> I love him very much and he is sweet and caring and attentive and treats me extremely well otherwise. I am just so confused and sad, watching my efforts in the bedroom becoming more of an act than genuine enjoyment.


I am wondering if everyone missed the clue I see. She claims she had to take meds to calm the panic attack she had. I have panic attacks and they are far from fun. They are not easy to push away and you have such an extreme feeling of fear you are wary of everything and everyone. 
For one thing, if she has a fear that has started when the "Rough" sex started, perhaps she has sensed that he may loose control and things will progress to violence worse than the choking. She doesn't say how hard he pulled her hair but we assume it was a mild pull. How would we feel about it if we find out she lost hair or he pulled her to the floor or off her feet. 
I am feeling she is scared because she senses he is changing and she is hoping that if she tells him to stop the physical part of the play, he may refuse. Then what does she do? She loves the man. She came here asking for help, opinions, support, for ears to listen even. 
It's correct to say "confront him. Ask him to stop the behaviour that you don't like." maybe someday when she knows him better, she will feel comfortable enough to approach the subject again, with a safe word. 

BUT if he isn't willing to stop the rough housing she should perhaps look for someone else.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I also pointed out about the meds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ben (May 8, 2011)

Mrs.G said:


> Yes, men know more about how women think than women. :rofl: Do you hear yourself when you speak?? I know that greenpearl is very submissive and most Western women reject that way of life. Ask for clarification before you make ridiculous assumptions. The only "nieve"  person here is you, especially to imply that I am gay. I am happily married to a MAN and I take offense to being called a lesbian.



I don't think you get what I am saying.

I would know more about what goes on in women's heads because I am hetrosexual so I am intimate with women. I would say that I would have less idea what goes on in other men's minds because I am not intimate with them.

I am a man, yet just because I am a man I don't claim that my way of thinking MUST therefore be the same as all other men. I have friends that are male yes, but you get to know your lovers quite a bit more than your friends, well, at least I do.


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## onepotatotwo (May 17, 2011)

I just wanted to say to chickenlittle...have you tried showing him what you like? Men like to give it to you in the way that they like, but there are times you can show them what you like/need. Take his hand and show him how you like to be touched...whisper seductively in his ear in a way that makes you feel good. 
Some men like it rough, and some women do...and others like gentle lovemaking... Both of you need to get your needs met in order to be happy, so try leading him to where you want him and gently show him what you like as a "new experience" he can try. 
I think when he see's how much more you get off on having it *your way* (lol) he'll be more apt to give it to you like you want more often.
Good luck


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

boundries, its all about crossing boundries. you have to know and respect each others limits


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Chickenlittle - Trust your reaction! Your gut is telling you that this does not feel like love. Your gut is telling you that being choked, demeaned, and hurt during sex is not good for you. You have to honor that. 

You feel like a ***** because you are being disrespected. I love to talk dirty, but what your husband is doing is not talking dirty. He is demeaning you and being physically violent with you. Your reaction is normal given the circumstances. Honor your feelings. Don't try to stuff your feelings with pills. Honey, your husband should not make you feel like you need to take a pill to cope.

I think you have a right to be concerned about his porn habit and how he has ignored your request to stop being violent during sex. He is showing that he does not care about your well-being each time he has sex with you that way. If my husband treated me the way you described, I would be shaking and in tears, too! And I am sexually open.

Ignore the posters who try to say there is something wrong with you. Ignore the posters who focus on bragging about how sexually adventurous they are instead of giving constructive advice - they are on these boards to brag and get an ego boost. 

Honor your feelings.

I would encourage you to seek therapy to discuss these issues and figure out how you can better assert yourself and your needs....which ultimately may mean leaving this relationship.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Put it this way...if I ever found out one of my daughters husbands did that to one of them they would never find his body.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

OP, you need to calmly sit your hub down and explain to him this hurts you just the same if he punched you in face. You have to calmly explain to him that while you appreciate his 'enthusiasm' that's not the woman you are and you never ever ever will be. You need to calmly tell him it's not because you don't love him but you're just mismatched in this one crucial way. And HE's the one who has to change. You can't and won't. 

What I would suggest is that you have to stop what you're doing, while you're doing it, if it becomes uncomfortable. You need a 'safe word' or such as a cue for him to dial it back. I would even practice with it, make out dressed or semi undressed and mess around. Practice using the safe word, so you both understand what it is and what happens. Show him how quickly he has to dial back, be it 5 seconds or 15 or whatever don't explain it. Show him. And make sure you don't wait until he can't stop. Try to help him to slow down a little. Give him encouragement and positive feedback for being gentle. Show him with touch, not just words. 

Yes, I'm suggesting some use of tantric sex.


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## grateful dad (May 19, 2011)

maybe try a little role reversal. put a gag on him.


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## WhiteRabbit (May 11, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> If he treats me like a queen in other areas, whatever he says and does in bed is only to make him feel horny and cum faster, I enjoy all the dirty talks and hair grabbing. I don't feel I am cheap, I actually feel I am very expensive. I have my man's heart!


didn't even read the other responses...i agree with this.

call me freaky but I'd love if it my husband took charge like your man does. I used to date a guy who always wanted me to slap him during sex...i did it and he lightly slapped me back...it was the hottest thing ever. it didn't hurt and didn't feel like abuse bc I was in control of how far it went.

my hubby is sooooo vanilla about sex but even he loves dirty talk every now and then.

BUT I wouldn't do what your man is doing and expect my hubby to want to do the slapping/hair pulling/dominance thing if he felt anxious or uncomfortable about it. I would respect his boundaries as long as he showed a willingness to do some things like the hair pulling which is pretty benign. I think you're dealing with someone who isn't getting that you can only bend so much on this issue and now it's his turn to bend a little for you.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I think the point is being missed. She does NOT like it. His actions are causing anxiety to such an extreme she is taking meds for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I honestly wonder if some of you read what she wrote before you posted or did you just read the title? She wrote that he chokes her during sex, pulls her hair and does things she is now on medication for due to extreme anxiety over this. 
She has talked to him about his porn use and perhaps cause of these "desires" and he tells her she is just insecure. 
This isn't role playing or sexual fun. BDSM is about BOTH people being in to it and enjoying it and having a safe environment. He is abusing her to the point where she is scared and having near panic attacks. Does that sound like fun to you? This isn't "dirty talk", this is far and beyond that. This is abuse plain and simple and it will escalate.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I honestly wonder if some of you read what she wrote before you posted or did you just read the title? She wrote that he chokes her during sex, pulls her hair and does things she is now on medication for due to extreme anxiety over this.
> She has talked to him about his porn use and perhaps cause of these "desires" and he tells her she is just insecure.
> This isn't role playing or sexual fun. BDSM is about BOTH people being in to it and enjoying it and having a safe environment. He is abusing her to the point where she is scared and having near panic attacks. Does that sound like fun to you? This isn't "dirty talk", this is far and beyond that. This is abuse plain and simple and it will escalate.


I think I read the title, and answered the title. 

My first reaction didn't help me comprehend her entire post. 

My bad.



She is with a porn addict maybe! Everything has to be balanced, when there is too much, it sinks!


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## Ben (May 8, 2011)

NOT HEAVY Choking / Hair pulling for a woman at the bottom end of the sexual scale is extreme and not the correct approach, especially if she is having panic attacks or medical issues directly resulting from it. OTOH, it is very fustrating for a man to have sex with a woman that is very 'vanilla', almost sexually fragile and you only know that once been in that situation. But I think many women here get on their bandwagons quickly claiming it as abnormal behaviour. It really isn't that abnormal at all. It is just abnormal for this woman in this situation, and all it is at the end of the day, is sexual incompatibility.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I think I read the title, and answered the title.
> 
> My first reaction didn't help me comprehend her entire post.
> 
> ...


No, she is with an abuser who enjoys hurting her to the point of choking for his own gratification. Did you read that part? Also did you read the part where she is on medication and having panic attacks because of this? 
You posted that she should in essence do whatever to keep her husband happy. Does that include death? This isn't a case of dirty words in the bedroom, this is flat out abuse and she is scared, so scared that she came to an anonymous forum to ask what she can do. Telling her to ask him to tone it down a bit is like telling her to tell her husband to only hit her where the marks cannot be seen. It is dangerous and reckless advice.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Ben said:


> NOT HEAVY Choking / Hair pulling for a woman at the bottom end of the sexual scale is extreme and not the correct approach, especially if she is having panic attacks or medical issues directly resulting from it. OTOH, it is very fustrating for a man to have sex with a woman that is very 'vanilla', almost sexually fragile and you only know that once been in that situation. But I think many women here get on their bandwagons quickly claiming it as abnormal behaviour. It really isn't that abnormal at all. It is just abnormal for this woman in this situation, and all it is at the end of the day, is sexual incompatibility.


Ben, Marco, Venis,....whoever you are, you don't understand BDSM at all, do you? I'll be glad to hop on my bandwagon and explain it a bit. BDSM is 100% about trust. Knowing your partner so well that you have an understanding of what is okay and what is not okay. Boundaries are never crossed. It is mutually agreed upon. Respecting that is of the utmost importance. If being choked is your thing and your partner is okay with it and a safe word is in place, cool. If choking is not your thing and suddenly it happens, it will be terrorizing and life threatening. In the OP's case, she is threatened. She is so scared she is having panic attacks. He is abusing her and he belongs in jail.
It IS abnormal behavior to choke your partner without their consent. You might call it "sexual incompatibility". Others call it a felony and assault. In all 50 states. At the end of the day.


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## Ben (May 8, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ben, Marco, Venis,....whoever you are, you don't understand BDSM at all, do you? I'll be glad to hop on my bandwagon and explain it a bit. BDSM is 100% about trust. Knowing your partner so well that you have an understanding of what is okay and what is not okay. Boundaries are never crossed. It is mutually agreed upon. Respecting that is of the utmost importance. If being choked is your thing and your partner is okay with it and a safe word is in place, cool. If choking is not your thing and suddenly it happens, it will be terrorizing and life threatening. In the OP's case, she is threatened. She is so scared she is having panic attacks. He is abusing her and he belongs in jail.
> It IS abnormal behavior to choke your partner without their consent. You might call it "sexual incompatibility". Others call it a felony and assault. In all 50 states. At the end of the day.


I did say 'extreme and not the correct approach' on his part.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Ben said:


> I did say 'extreme and not the correct approach' on his part.


This isn't an "approach" but I doubt you realize that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> OP, you need to calmly sit your hub down and explain to him this hurts you just the same if he punched you in face. You have to calmly explain to him that while you appreciate his 'enthusiasm' that's not the woman you are and you never ever ever will be. You need to calmly tell him it's not because you don't love him but you're just mismatched in this one crucial way. And HE's the one who has to change. You can't and won't.
> 
> What I would suggest is that you have to stop what you're doing, while you're doing it, if it becomes uncomfortable. You need a 'safe word' or such as a cue for him to dial it back. I would even practice with it, make out dressed or semi undressed and mess around. Practice using the safe word, so you both understand what it is and what happens. Show him how quickly he has to dial back, be it 5 seconds or 15 or whatever don't explain it. Show him. And make sure you don't wait until he can't stop. Try to help him to slow down a little. Give him encouragement and positive feedback for being gentle. Show him with touch, not just words.
> 
> Yes, I'm suggesting some use of tantric sex.


Now here is the most sensible, sensitive and well thought out post of all, in my opinion. She loves this man and although I would not put up with having things done to me for as long as she has, it in the nature of women to try to please the man they love. 

I am certain that we all do things for our husbands that we are not particularly fond of but it makes him happy. Since there is nothing more intoxicating than a very happy man, it is natural to slip into letting things go too far in a desire to make him happy. 

So her letting it continue is very normal for a woman. Maybe she did not come back because she felt blamed or shamed. If that's the case, please know that your reaction is normal and even touching because you are trying to satisfy your husband. 

As you can see from reading posts in this forum, many women have no interest in doing so. You need to develop the skills of boundary setting. Just dial that man back. 

Runs you rock.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ben (May 8, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> This isn't an "approach" but I doubt you realize that.


Of course it is an 'approach'. It is the obnoxious without consideration to her feelings and health 'just do it' approach. The correct approach would be discussion to gauge her sexual boundaries and establishment of a safe word with consideration to her feelings and health approach.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> No, she is with an abuser who enjoys hurting her to the point of choking for his own gratification. Did you read that part? Also did you read the part where she is on medication and having panic attacks because of this?
> You posted that she should in essence do whatever to keep her husband happy. Does that include death? This isn't a case of dirty words in the bedroom, this is flat out abuse and she is scared, so scared that she came to an anonymous forum to ask what she can do. Telling her to ask him to tone it down a bit is like telling her to tell her husband to only hit her where the marks cannot be seen. It is dangerous and reckless advice.


Your advice is much better! I am glad a lot of you disagree with me and give her much better advice! So she now knows what to do! Get rid of this man, if I were her! I am glad that she didn't come to me personally and I give her wrong advice. This is a forum, it is suppose to have different advice.


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## chickenlittle (Mar 5, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Now here is the most sensible, sensitive and well thought out post of all, in my opinion. She loves this man and although I would not put up with having things done to me for as long as she has, it in the nature of women to try to please the man they love.
> 
> I am certain that we all do things for our husbands that we are not particularly fond of but it makes him happy. Since there is nothing more intoxicating than a very happy man, it is natural to slip into letting things go too far in a deire to make him happy.
> 
> ...




Well I have learned a lot from all the postings here, and feel really grateful for all of your support. 
I'll try to update quickly on the conversation I had with him after the encounter I told you about. 
Basically, I wanted to use this experience as an example, a segue. I tried to tell him that I felt weird the next day, that we had gone a little too far and that maybe we could be less hard core next time. It wasn't even before I had gotten a few sentences out that he started to criticize my "approach" to the conversation, giving me directions on how to have a conversation like this. He offered at least five major criticisms before I was done even getting the issue on the table. I thought some of them were valid, such as "can't you see how you are making me feel? put yourself in my shoes for a minute and start the conversation with something like 'this is not meant to be a criticism' etc. I thought I had done this. After a few comments I was exasperated and told him that how was I supposed to talk to him if he is railroading the conversation by making me question myself and be more self conscious than I already was? Why can't I just have a minute to be upset and not consider him?? I said sometimes I need to be "selfish" and just have a reaction. However, I had started this conversation on the right foot, and by this point it was spiraling down. He said I was unaware of how I was coming across, and that this was an ambush, and why hadn't I given him some kind of indication of what the conversation would be about before we started it? I said, this conversation was NOT about him, that he needed to be there for me for a minute, that this was hard and embarrassing for me to talk about. I told him that I didnt think I was being critical or lacking in self awareness and he exclaimed; "Are you stupid????" So that conversation went well. Later, as in days/weeks later, he complained of being self conscious, of having to think about where I was at before/during/after sex. I really didnt have much sympathy for that, frankly. 

Anyway. Its been a while. That kind of sex hasn't happened again, because I think he feels embarrassed. I didn't mean to make him feel like this, I just wanted to tell him (and did tell him) that after hard core sex like that, I felt it was difficult to reconnect with my body, I felt strangely numb from having to kind of play a role. That I didnt want to continue to do that, because I felt it would have long term negative affects. If he needs that kind of sex, you are all right, he should find someone who also enjoys it. 

Part of the reason I let it go on, was that during that kind of sex, I had never really seen him so "into" it, there was just a certain sense of abandon that I got from him, he felt powerful, sexy, like he was where he wanted to be. Sometimes you have to cross the line to see where the line is. I havent seen that kind of abandon from him since. He has always seemed self conscious unless we are having rough sex and he is talking to me. With previous men that I perhaps didn't feel as strongly about, I still felt a thousand times more mentally connected, and I would cum every time. I don't even think about cumming anymore because I know its just not going to happen. I can't get lost in it. I really like engaging sex, it is just different than what he considers engaging sex. I like to feel I am very aware of who the person in front of me is, and that we are sharing something intimate and personal, not that we need to act like porn stars to lose our self consciousness.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"Alas! Forgive me, Dear Prudence, but thy bosom straineth against thy corset so, I fear thou hast given me arrousal in my trousel."


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## carterina frost (Sep 19, 2016)

So, I used to cringe when my husband talked dirty. I finally realized he really liked and and he definitely loves me. I am not cheap in his eyes. So, I started talking back. Just like you can get used to a certain food, you can get used to this, and now i love it. We don't do it all the time, but there have been a few moments...He has called me **** and *****, once told me to "shut up and spread em." The pinnacle was one day when I pulled down my jeans, bent over the bed, and said, "**** me. Then, let your buddies stand in line and take turns. I'll take em all on." He loved it. So, relax.


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## Inky (Aug 21, 2016)

It's hard to relax if you really, honestly don't like something and are worried about just how far your partner is going to go. If sex leads to a panic attack, that's a problem. And you're not obligated to do something that leaves you feeling demeaned and disrespected and that you get no actual enjoyment out of in order to please your partner. If you want to try it, fine. That's being good, giving, and game. If you like it, good. Keep doing it. But people have the right to set hard limits and to have their partner respect those limits. Telling the OP to just relax is pretty much dismissing her feelings and misgiving as unimportant or at least less important that her partner's sexual satisfaction.


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