# Question for you guys that lift heavy things and set them down.



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I am not new to athletics and weights, but had to take time off due to some odd injuries. Beyond that, I finally got serious with a cage and I'm back into squats. I took it very easy but surprisingly returned mostly to my 20's sets pretty quick.

Anyway, not trying to toot any horn here, but I am not really getting "the pump" that I was used to. I am now examining diet a bit, but I think I will need to consider a preworkout product. I get pretty annoyed with all the scams, shred it, king shred, shredRX, shred100, shred1000.....the most important one is "shred your wallet".....

I probably need to consider a caffeine supp, but I already drink heavy duty coffee that has little affect on me.

This is probably the wrong forum to chat about this crap, but the ever popular "bodybuildingforum", is just filled to the max with meatheads, only worried about their 'gains' and 'look'. I don't mean to insult, but man, a scam was built every single minute just for them. I am not willing to dabble in HGH, Test, etc. All things these players act like they don't touch, but.......

If someone has a more organic forum to recommend, that would be awesome! I am always looking to network with athletes that just want to be healthy and stay at their max. And when I say 'max', I mean things like military PT.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I usually get my fitness/weight training advice from a few different lifters sharing info online. Jeff Nippard on YouTube is a good resource for science-based lifting advice. There are others. Bodybuilding forum is mostly a bunch of young kids boasting and not much use.

I'd stay away from the pre-workout. Good luck getting actual advice on which product to use since almost everyone online talking about these products is a paid influencer out there shilling this crap to people. Long gone are the days of Jack3D when you could take a pre-workout that would either give you a heart attack or make you lift like a beast. Nowadays, most of the stuff seems to be crap. I just take creatine and sometimes drink an energy drink or something prior to a workout.

I feel you with the injuries and the like. I'm currently dealing with knee problems and a wrist issue gained from an arm wrestling practice session. I'm probably about to take a full break from all lifting for a few months just to get my body 100% again.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm a fan of Jeff Cavaliere who has a YouTube channel called Athlean X. Smart muscle guy there.

I can only talk about my nutrition but I actually love complex carbs. I also eat mostly unprocessed foods that are organic or local which is organic without the label.

My genetics are probably a cheat though because I get a very good pump no matter what I do.

Pre workout stuff has given me a boost in the past but I found far more balanced, sustainable and regular gains and maintenance from simply eating well.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Well Nippard is most certainly a roid head. It seems the trend these days to juice to the moon, then tell the kids "don't use steroids"....lmfao. 

Cavalier I don't have too many issues with other than he, as most, likes to get that shirt off and show off for my ****. He has also been caught several times with fake weights. I wish he would just stick to PT....

I am mostly trying to find a forum where normal athletes hang out, and are not as worried about their vascularity or bro gains, just good natural training with the right stuff. 

I mean, I use Creatine. Have for many years. Well proven to be safe, but I will admit, I was probably the very last in my day to even use that. I so wish I had the science education back then. I was scammed into thinking Wheaties would give me "the gains"....lmao....


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

Very raw and amateur here...

Have lifted and trained for a good 20 years of my life... I am no pro nor have I had great success at it. So grain of salt and all that...

When I was 20... the most impactful supplements were- creatine and a weight gainer shake.

Today... not disclosing age... B vitamins and good sleep. Game changer for me. For sleep aid- Zinc and Magnesium.

2 months into it... feel drastically better.

EDIT- I got into a workout after my normal day... and I am driven to make new gains and I am optimistic about that EVERY time. So, mental and physical performance are up after taking B vitamins through the day and doing the Zinc & Mag. at night.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Yeah, similar for me. I'm in my mid 60s, and squatting exactly half of what I once did. 
My objective is not gaining, it's slowing down the age-related muscle loss. 
I use caffeine, creatine, zinc and magnesium. And whey of course. No way to measure whether they really help.
Not much carbs. Good sleep is vital.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

If you want to do military style PT you don’t need any supplements except maybe something for overnight recovery if you’re training hard (2/day).

The professional fighters I know will do a preworkout but they work out multiple times a day and don’t eat a lot of calories of food relative to their workouts especially in the last weeks of a 2 month camp. It varies as to whether they take a product at night, some do, some don’t. Those normally have zinc and magnesium, now it looks like they also put 5-HTP. Supposed to take this 30mins before protein at bed.

Body building no clue.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

I've been lifting for over 35 years now and in that time have tried everything from Weider's mass gainer (back in the 80's) to Sust. . I'll let you in on a little pre-workout trick that's outside of the bodybuilding world and not used as a pre-workout but the only thing that works solid for me. Take a teaspoon of Maeng Da Kratom 30-60 minutes prior to working out and let me know how that works for you, and don't spread it across those BB forums as it's already in danger of being being blacklisted.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

bobsmith said:


> Well Nippard is most certainly a roid head. It seems the trend these days to juice to the moon, then tell the kids "don't use steroids"....lmfao.


You're gonna struggle to find a prominent weight lifter or even semi-pro athlete that isn't on the juice. Just how it is. Nippard just gives out good science-based advice on lifting and usually includes the science/studies in his videos. If you want to lift better, he's a good resource.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

It amaze me the ignorance of people when it comes to anything that they have not scientific knowledge of. Talk an discuss about it as a matter of fact. I see programs touting this program here, this program there, this marvelous ingredient here, this magical ingredient there. They just don't tell you how, and if you are able to metabolize them into your muscles cells.

When it comes to dietary supplements a lot people do themselves more harm than good.

Firstly, as you age each and every individual cell in your whole body is not longer able to form as much ATP in order to fuel the cells. We can add a billion grams of whatever you fancy, but if your body can't metabolize it into one of the pathways for energy, then all you might be doing is accumulating compounds in some form, half way metabolized or not in certain parts/organs in your body ,which could potentially be bad for your health. 

Young people that hadn't started to slow down metabolically or their cells aging, are also some of the most susceptible to messing up themselves due to overdosing themselves with stuff being touted as the greatest and latest, due to their susceptibility to be influenced easily. 

For someone that has knees problems, squatting is the ultimate no-no. This is a sure recipe for life long knees problems later on.
I haven't met a doctor that recommends heavy weight lifting as a good form of exercising. Weights are good in a moderate use and as therapeutics when needed as directed by a physician. 

Is sad to see so many young people going into weight lifting as a form of exercise and then seeing them consuming their life to the point that they become steroids junkies or worse. Sad end for some of them.
Well balanced meals is all we all need.

A gorilla has pound by pound one of the strongest body muscles, they only eat vegetables and fruits, with termites here, ants here, their larvae there for some protein. 
We don't need to eat three big meals a day. We did not evolved that way. We evolved eating little this here, little this there, whenever we could. Our digestive system is that of an omnivore, nonetheless, I see so many of these weight lifter into heavy meat diets/high protein. I don't care how lean that meat is, too much of it is not good for any human.

Even Schwarzenegger is a vegetarian, or some form of it now.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

bobsmith said:


> I am not new to athletics and weights, but had to take time off due to some odd injuries. Beyond that, I finally got serious with a cage and I'm back into squats. I took it very easy but surprisingly returned mostly to my 20's sets pretty quick.
> 
> Anyway, not trying to toot any horn here, but I am not really getting "the pump" that I was used to. I am now examining diet a bit, but I think I will need to consider a preworkout product. I get pretty annoyed with all the scams, shred it, king shred, shredRX, shred100, shred1000.....the most important one is "shred your wallet".....
> 
> ...


I have the same issue at 37. I found that the biggest advantage was increasing testosterone naturally. Eat meat, eggs, keep lifting, get some sun, and take a multivitamin. I don't know your age, but it gets harder to keep those muscles solid every year.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I guess I will dive a bit deeper here. I generally stick to a 'protein first' diet in terms of macro counting. I do NOT really track things like some 'lifers' in the gym. I have my go-to foods and I stick to a consistent diet which helps me do some quick mental math. I will admit I don't even track carbs. I know I must have carbs for optimal performance but right now I am in a caloric deficit and despite some studies, I have been able to recomp pretty well, I think leaning on some muscle memory effects. I always eat some veggies, mostly being greens such as brussel sprouts and broccoli. I generally eat cheese because I like it and it provides fats. I use bananas as my 'booster' for workouts and runs. 

As for proteins, I might ask what you lifters are eating to get your protein up? I will admit that I need to expand my diet as it gets pretty blah after a while. I eat beef, chicken, salmon, greek yogurt, almonds, cheese, greens, bananas, and quite a few eggs. I supplement with whey usually at 30-45g/day. It is VERY difficult to achieve target protein, and actually calories in general as my body quickly adapts to a 'high efficiency mode' where I am just not hungry. I can go an entire day before realizing I have not eaten anything. 

Now back as a competing athlete, this was all quite different, and many here probably know the drill of living it daily. Tracking the lifting programs, progress, foods, etc. I think the only dangerous drug I got into was Ephedrine. These days I am more experienced and realize how the supplement world works. Supp giants prop up enhanced dudes to peddle their 'magic pills' so "you can look like this too"....And there is no shortage of takers as every young, skinny guy looks for a magic pill to add 50lbs of solid muscle in 13 days. 

I have noticed an uptick in IGF-1 like supplements lately. Maybe that is the newest trend along the HGH platform. But because supplements are largely unregulated, it could be caffeine in a squirt bottle for all we know.....for $170!!!

I guess I have a frustrating past regarding 'enhancements' as I was forced with a tough decision as an athlete from my coaching staff. I WAS the guy to beat, but I watched two guys seemly add 20lbs over me over one Summer! The decision was either to do what everyone else was doing, or get out. Today I can see abuse down into middle school teens! 

I guess I too am now looking for a little 'extra' but it becomes extremely difficult to get honest data. I am not convinced I can't do it with a little diet tweak, but I have to be real with myself too.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

I stick with high protein (beef, chicken, fish, nuts, yogurts and chickpeas), little to no carbs, lots of greens, boosted my water intake, get 6 hours of sleep and the only supplements I take are zinc, magnesium and a B complex. 

Results are loss of 65 over pounds, massive muscle gain and higher energy.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> I stick with high protein (beef, chicken, fish, nuts, yogurts and chickpeas), little to no carbs, lots of greens, boosted my water intake, get 6 hours of sleep and the only supplements I take are zinc, magnesium and a B complex.
> 
> Results are loss of 65 over pounds, massive muscle gain and higher energy.


That's a good point that others have mentioned, and I have sort of gotten lazy about. I will hit the Bs and Zinc and see where I end up. I was pushing the B's up pretty hard yrs ago. I don't really have any 'weight' I need to lose, just fat, or otherwise recomp. It is not easy. I have not done any comp testing but I would say I am probably off my mark by 8lbs. I think I just get pissed at myself when I push for a couple weeks and don't see immediate results...lol 

I am pretty pumped about getting back to squats though. I was thinking that was where much of my muscle loss was, but I more or less shocked myself with my performance....still taking it easy though. I am running this whole program beltless too. I don't have anything to prove to anyone regarding weight and beltless is just a better program IMO.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

bobsmith said:


> It is VERY difficult to achieve target protein, and actually calories in general as my body quickly adapts to a 'high efficiency mode' where I am just not hungry. I can go an entire day before realizing I have not eaten anything.


Working out hard (not lifting weights) makes me hungry.

It is hard to achieve protein if you need a lot of calories. How many calories are you trying to eat a day?


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Well, I think things get off the rails mostly because my caloric needs change daily. Some days I am working outdoors turning wrenches, climbing, etc. Others I might be on a PC all day. So I think my caloric needs likely move between 1500-2300. The fact that my weight is under control tells me I am at least the the ballpark. 

The main issue is driving in that protein! Protein bars are basically relabeled candy bars. The fastest thing I have around is greek yogurt. I literally HATE whey shakes anymore. I have to choke them down, knowing I need it. I literally avoid all sugar, all while knowing I am getting it anyway. Yogurt has it, bananas, etc. I just avoid thing like Coke, cake, pie, etc.

Now, saying that I NEED my protein, I also know my body and if there are no carbs for something like you do (boxing IIRC?), I would be screwed. But I basically push into that depleted state trying to burn fat. Not really a solid strategy...lol 

As for protein, I really need to hit 120-140g, but I mentally try to get to 100. Most days that does not happen and I would guess about 85. I could pound down more whey but I am trying to find happiness in fitness, not agony.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

So two pounds of 93/7 cooked hamburger is around 1400 cal and 96g of protein. I eat that much for dinner fairly regularly, or an equivalent. Can swap out turkey or whatever, today I have 2lbs of ground Turkey thigh.

It’s not tough for me to eat 3-4 lbs of meat a day if I am motivated but I am a big guy.

Now I am not eating clean as I am not training for anything in particular. 

I found I never needed sugar products at all for boxing unless I was training like a fighter would for fights which would be road work + strength and conditioning + sparring in one day. Occasionally I’d get dizzy or wonky feeling especially as I got down in weight below 215lbs.

I was using whey protein at night then I would go to bed around 8:45pm and have ~110 cal of it.

Post-workout in the morning I would eat smoked salmon 1/4lb or I would make a smoothie with blueberries, coconut water, kale, and vegan protein powder.

For something like endurance road biking I would drink cytomax for carbs during the rides. Some boxers will drink cytomax before hard conditioning like track sprints. I have seen a few guys doing this who are professional fighters.

I really need an event or something to train for but masters boxing is no good and I can’t commit to the camp workouts as I don’t have enough time. You need to train 2-3 times a day as I show above for two months or you won’t be in shape.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

All of those pre workout explosive blah blah blah products are basically nothing more than majorly overpriced caffeine powders. I have tried them and it just gave me nervous jitters 

Testosterone levels are absolutely vital if you want to be in any kind of decent shape. I don't know your age, but more and more people suffer from low testosterone than ever. I was diagnosed as extremely low just over a year ago. I am 39 and inject weekly. I can build muscle and lose weight like I am 21 again. My level went from 177 to about 860. My doctor says many middle aged guys around 40 just assume that weight gain, muscle loss, and difficulty building muscle is just a fact of getting a little older and there is nothing they can do about it. But in reality, it's a drop in T levels..... With proper hydration, T shots, and halfway decent eating, I keep up with people in their 20s all day.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> So two pounds of 93/7 cooked hamburger is around 1400 cal and 96g of protein. I eat that much for dinner fairly regularly, or an equivalent. Can swap out turkey or whatever, today I have 2lbs of ground Turkey thigh.
> 
> It’s not tough for me to eat 3-4 lbs of meat a day if I am motivated but I am a big guy.
> 
> ...


Curious how you are preparing meats, and I don't think I have ever bought ground turkey? 

As for Cytomax, I was using something similar way back. But hell, back then Gatorade was a "health" drink....lmao... I could probably use something that gets me the carbs that I need to finish my programs, or whatever term I might use. I say that loosely because I sure as hell am not logging anything. 

But I guess today was par for the course as a WTF workout. I decided I needed to fit that in today. Running currently on 500cal of greek yogurt, almonds, and coffee from this morn. That was all from about noon. I just finished a 2mi run after the workout. The feeling is odd as I still feel like I have gas in the tank. I am far from toast, but if I throw some heavy weights around, I could probably get 2-3 clean reps, then hit the brick wall. 

I used to eat the chit out of sweet potatoes! Like that was my carb hit. Maybe I need to find a better, faster way to prep those! One would think a guy like me with experience, and even a coach, would have his chit together, but I think I am trying to see what I can get away with. 

Am I hungry right now? Yup, and there is no salad that is going to fill this tank. I am a carnivore.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> All of those pre workout explosive blah blah blah products are basically nothing more than majorly overpriced caffeine powders. I have tried them and it just gave me nervous jitters
> 
> Testosterone levels are absolutely vital if you want to be in any kind of decent shape. I don't know your age, but more and more people suffer from low testosterone than ever. I was diagnosed as extremely low just over a year ago. I am 39 and inject weekly. I can build muscle and lose weight like I am 21 again. My level went from 177 to about 860. My doctor says many middle aged guys around 40 just assume that weight gain, muscle loss, and difficulty building muscle is just a fact of getting a little older and there is nothing they can do about it. But in reality, it's a drop in T levels..... With proper hydration, T shots, and halfway decent eating, I keep up with people in their 20s all day.


I am certainly not opposed to T boosting, but I don't think my T levels are that low yet, just judging by my size and strength. I am certainly watching things though, and I probably should go get a baseline T test. 

But I am not all smiles about boosting T. I realize for guys that are super low or fall off a cliff, it can be a game changer and I can pick those guys out anywhere. They are 70yo with ripped abs! lmao! And they will tell you they "work hard"... Anyway, what I was getting at is the body is used to a steady stream of T, not the hard hit you get with a weekly injection. I am not saying it is all bad, but A, I absolutely hate needles to a point I passed out getting blood drawn. B, I have heard that things such as patches or pills might be on the edge for getting a T supplement, which would give a steady daily dose. 

Certainly not opposed!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

2 lbs of ground Turkey with McCormick chicken taco mix (2 packs). I only made it through about half and then I tapped out but I wasn’t that hungry.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

So you buy ground turkey in a package like ground beef? 

As for beef, these days I have been able to spot some discount deals on like stir fry beef steak. Chuck, or similar. Who knows, it's like a surprise when I go to the store. But eating cold, day old steak is usually not that exciting...lol


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

bobsmith said:


> So you buy ground turkey in a package like ground beef?
> 
> As for beef, these days I have been able to spot some discount deals on like stir fry beef steak. Chuck, or similar. Who knows, it's like a surprise when I go to the store. But eating cold, day old steak is usually not that exciting...lol


My butcher grinds it. If you want really pure white meat Turkey you can get 1% fat. When I was trying to cut weight a lot I would eat stuff like that but it’s basically sawdust. What I cooked there was ground dark meat it’s probably more like 7% fat based on comparing it to ground beef.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

bobsmith said:


> I am certainly not opposed to T boosting, but I don't think my T levels are that low yet, just judging by my size and strength. I am certainly watching things though, and I probably should go get a baseline T test.
> 
> But I am not all smiles about boosting T. I realize for guys that are super low or fall off a cliff, it can be a game changer and I can pick those guys out anywhere. They are 70yo with ripped abs! lmao! And they will tell you they "work hard"... Anyway, what I was getting at is the body is used to a steady stream of T, not the hard hit you get with a weekly injection. I am not saying it is all bad, but A, I absolutely hate needles to a point I passed out getting blood drawn. B, I have heard that things such as patches or pills might be on the edge for getting a T supplement, which would give a steady daily dose.
> 
> Certainly not opposed!


I will say this, I hate needles and it took me over 45 minutes to inject myself. My hands were shaking and I was a nervous mess. My wife does my injections for me every week.

Taking the shots alone will not give you really anything beyond slow weight loss and the sex drive of a 20 year old. But if you lift weights and put in effort, you will absolutely see gains rapidly. But with T injections, you have to watch your red blood cell count. Mine is borderline high and I have to donate blood to bring it down.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> All of those pre workout explosive blah blah blah products are basically nothing more than majorly overpriced caffeine powders. I have tried them and it just gave me nervous jitters
> 
> Testosterone levels are absolutely vital if you want to be in any kind of decent shape. I don't know your age, but more and more people suffer from low testosterone than ever. I was diagnosed as extremely low just over a year ago. I am 39 and inject weekly. I can build muscle and lose weight like I am 21 again. My level went from 177 to about 860. My doctor says many middle aged guys around 40 just assume that weight gain, muscle loss, and difficulty building muscle is just a fact of getting a little older and there is nothing they can do about it. But in reality, it's a drop in T levels..... With proper hydration, T shots, and halfway decent eating, I keep up with people in their 20s all day.


I agree with this with the caveat that raising testosterone naturally is really the only way to go unless it isn't an option and then definitely get some outside help.

Good T levels make a world of difference.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> My butcher grinds it. If you want really pure white meat Turkey you can get 1% fat. When I was trying to cut weight a lot I would eat stuff like that but it’s basically sawdust. What I cooked there was ground dark meat it’s probably more like 7% fat based on comparing it to ground beef.


LMAO..... and....I got 93/7 ground turkey in the fridge now.... Now to figure out how I want to cook it. I grabbed some seasonings and figure this first one will be for learning. 

I would agree about the 1%. I am no where near that hard core to deny myself some flavor. I also prefer dark over light poultry. I know it has more fat! And I just don't care. I love how some want to argue with this stuff until you consider the alternative! A Whopper from BK....

They did have some 90/10 so I will have to play. It is cheap though! Appreciate the bump on that stuff. Not sure how I will like it but I could live on turkey legs for life! Surely I can figure it out.

Oh, and tonight's flavor is "beef country style ribs"....whatever that is. Cheaper than ground beef but I think they are going to be tight. Get what ya pay for.....


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I will say this, I hate needles and it took me over 45 minutes to inject myself. My hands were shaking and I was a nervous mess. My wife does my injections for me every week.
> 
> Taking the shots alone will not give you really anything beyond slow weight loss and the sex drive of a 20 year old. But if you lift weights and put in effort, you will absolutely see gains rapidly. But with T injections, you have to watch your red blood cell count. Mine is borderline high and I have to donate blood to bring it down.


You are talking me right out of T injections! Giving blood!!??? FFFF that! They most certainly will need a stretcher. More fun is that my entire family is in medicine. They love to show me a needle. That doesn't really bother me, it's when the jab happens. BUT, I can tell you if I need a shot, like NEED, I will take that like a big boy. Had a knee surgery a long time ago. Damn nurse hit it when moving beds and I went into orbit. I said, "BRING ME A SHOT.....NOW". Rolled my ass over in .1sec. Do it!!!!


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Just sharing guys. The vitamins might actually have been the ticket. Time will tell, but I could not imagine being deficient in Zinc, but just maybe. Guys might want to give it a go.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Just seeing this @bobsmith. My primary issues these days is fatigue, joint pain, and recovery. I have bones like a bird. I've never been a big guy, but certainly looked fit. I started HRT back 2000 teens, when my Test levels were coming back at 100 and change. I've been off therapy for nearly 2 months, due to issues with a doctor change, and a prescription snafu.
Between bladder cancer in 2020 followed by GI issues, including anemia and a celiac diagnosis, my energy has seriously cratered. I'm trying very much to get that back on track. Have also been focusing on calcium, magnesium, zinc. 

But ... I can attest that using a pre-workout has been a tremendous benefit for me for energy and recovery. I use Nitro-Surge. I consistently mix up my workouts from circuit training using machines to keep my heart rate up, along with also body splits x 3 days and incorporating free weights. I just mix it up from week to week. My days of trying to lift heavier and heavier weights are behind me.


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

bobsmith said:


> Just sharing guys. The vitamins might actually have been the ticket. Time will tell, but I could not imagine being deficient in Zinc, but just maybe. Guys might want to give it a go.


Just so that we know and future visitors of the discussion know... what vitamins are we talking about. Zinc for sure... but what else?


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

I am not into physical training, but the conversation here caught my attention. 

Why are you using magnesium and zinc supplements? I'm assuming the brussel sprouts and broccoli are as a source of magnesium?

I went through treatment for prostate cancer. Part of the treatment was chemically induced castration with 0 testosterone for most of 2020. The meds were supposed to have worn off, but I'm still experiencing symptoms that seem to be low testosterone. My testosterone is around 480 so it is not low enough to cause the symptoms except that I also have a high level of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) that absorbs testosterone and estrogen, making them unavailable to the body. My free and biologically available testosterone is more like 150.

The endocrinologist has me on boron, D3, magnesium and zinc to try to suppress the SHBG and free up testosterone. She also suggests fish oil, increased protein and carbohydrates. So I'm wondering what PT types are looking for in the magnesium and zinc.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Julie's Husband said:


> I am not into physical training, but the conversation here caught my attention.
> 
> Why are you using magnesium and zinc supplements? I'm assuming the brussel sprouts and broccoli are as a source of magnesium?
> 
> ...


I will only speak for myself right now, but I commonly use myself as an experiment as I have no medical issues and I can operate subjectively. I absolutely have concluded in my medical studies and experiences that what is good for one many not be good for another. 

As to the questions of what I am taking. Really the only things I have changes is I added a multi V, zinc, magnesium, and my fish oils. When someone has a medical issue, that should take priority! BUT, I find that primary care physicians are rarely up to speed on current data, and pump people full of big pharma crap. Case and point, my dad is a type 2 diabetic, that IMO, is totally reversible. His doctor prescribes the exact **** that will just cause more weight gain, instead of telling him that his diet is killing him. He is, however, an absolute stud pushing 70, having just moved and placed 4 tons of rock with a shovel and wheel barrow. What I am saying is he is otherwise healthy AF!

Anyway, I refer to Zinc as the "repair mineral". In PT, it can aid in muscle repair, which can get you back to full performance quicker. Magnesium is more or less an aid or catalyst in protein synthesis. I refer to it as a gateway mineral. It aids creatine in keeping muscles acting strong for longer, and recovering quicker. 

I don't in any way want someone to believe these will make someone explode with medical miracles, but I know myself and something was missing! I am still working on it but I should be clear that in most cases with vitamins, there is probably and likely an 'overage' of requirements, in which I realize the body will excrete those. I think people hear of the extremes, and then think all is bad. I don't think extremes are healthy, ever, but ensuring you are covered is good. 

To be right honest, my thoughts are going to the magnesium at the moment, because I am already on creatine. Now, lets get one thing straight! I know for certain I did not build muscle over night. But I also know I was not activating my full potential, and I'm still not doing that, but some of that is life. If I moved back to an 'athlete first' mentality like some fitness gurus do, sure, I could probably get nuts. But I am trying to build a 'life around fitness' which means other things are going on. I am NOT that guy to say, "brah, I can't hang out tonight because I have my squat session". Not saying that is bad, but that build your life around yo squats. So I realize my goals have to take a side seat, or ride along. 

One thing I am analyzing, which age has caused, is that my muscle performance seems to punch out, yet if I give it a couple hours, I have a LOT more left in the tank. Back in the day, I could dump it all on the floor, and I probably had little left in 2hrs. All that means is muscle activation is different now. I am pretty certain as this Summer roles in, I will push this and see when I am really done. However, I have to recall that even in my elite, I was always known for pulling off a little 'extra'. maybe my mental toughness is not on point, or maybe, I truly was built with more fast twitch muscles that don't endure very long, but recover.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Very good thread..

Just started working out.. Did some working out many years ago but more because of my line of work in law enforcement.

Using the iFit app to some degree on a Proform treadmill I bought, its a 3 years contract included so can't complain. Using the C25K ( Couch to 5 K app ) Stuck at week 4 day 1 running wise. Trying to build up the endurance to move onto week 4 day 2 which is a 8 minute run or 3/4 of a mile.

Have those adjustable dumbbells' and need to put the weight bench together..
Need to get some more weights.. 

At 55 I am just looking to run a SOLID 3 miles do a couple of pull ups/chin ups. Just be healthier and out run the last guy in zombie apocalypse.


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

Julie's Husband said:


> Why are you using magnesium and zinc supplements?


I use zinc & mag for sleep aid. If it has other benefits... so be it.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

A few points, since I didn't get a chance to respond because of my enforced vacation.

1. Use both a measuring tape and a weight scale to measure your progress.
A weight scale gives the weight, but does not give the why of the weight.
A tape measure will give you an idea as to whether you have gained muscle, despite gaining weight, because you'll have lost inches.
Fat takes up more room/weight than muscle does.
Just go to a supermarket and pick up 2lbs of meat and 2lbs of butter to see the difference.
You should not weigh yourself more than once every two weeks, because the body can go up or down in small amounts every single day.
About every two weeks is sufficient.

2. If you cut calories, take it out of carbs. Carbs are the easily converted calorie to fat.
Protein should be 3/4 gram for every pound you want to weigh. The grams of protein should be set in stone that you do not cut under any circumstances.
The body uses protein to process fat to turn it to waste, so you don't want the body to be digesting your body's muscle mass while trying to lose weight.
Eat fat in the mornings, so the body can spend the day using it.
Typically 25% of the diet should come from protein. 20-25% should come from fat and the remaining 55-60% should come from carbs.
However, don't cut large amounts of food from the diet in order to create something that can be maintained. If you are losing weight, don't change anything. However, if you're remaining stable, cut about 50 calories/day to see if that helps. If you begin losing weight again, maintain that. If you aren't losing weight, cut another 50 calories.
50 calories is about a half slice of bread or a handful of rice.
Your pre-workout snack should be carbed based, for energy, and your post-workout snack should be protein based, to help repair the body.
There are lots of home based recipes for powders that you can make at home without spending a lot of money.
Most of them are just some variation of eggs, milk, and whey turned into powder.
There is no real reason to buy supplemental powders, unless you really needed the best science to extract that fraction of a bonus benefit.

Find those hidden calories, like having salad with your salad dressing instead of the other way around.
I like diet Miracle Whip that is flavoured with lemon juice. The taste is sharp enough that you don't need a lot to make it delicious.
I know Lou Ferrigno, when he was competing, would just make a vinaigrette out of lemon juice and vinegar.
I've seen zero calorie salad dressings on the web that is based in vinegar and artificial juicers.

3. Always work until failure in order to get the maximum benefit.
HIIT is just the most efficient form of working until failure, but it may be too difficult for some people to work one set of an exercise until you fail.
Also some people have an abundance of endurance muscle fibre, where they they can do lots of reps and not fail, so more than one set is necessary for them.
It's better to want to keep working out then set yourself up where you do not look forward to going to the gym or working out.


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