# Religious wife/mom at male strip club



## 1Adam12

I am a man who would like some input to help me understand the way the sexes may differ in desires and boundary crossing. If I did the same things described below instead of my wife, our relationship would have serious, if not terminal, problems.

Backstory:
My wife and I have been together for 39 years, married for 36. We were each other’s first and only. I have no doubt that in the past, present, or future of our commitment we’ve both been exclusive. We raised three daughters together and the youngest is now 23. All three girls are out the house and well adjusted. A Catholic in my youth, my mom moved me on to fundamentalist churches by my early teens. In college my new GF and future wife was “very” Catholic when we met and she got me back on track with the same Catholic faith of my youth.
She made it clear that we were to be a church going, pious union. When visiting our favorite weekend getaway of New Orleans over our years together I learned early on (from her insistence) that we don’t go near the racy clubs on Bourbon Street. On one of our first outings together we were down Bourbon Street with a group of friends and she was very uncomfortable and guided me in another direction while our friends went into a strip club. We went take in other historic sites instead. I respected her for that decision and we never set foot in a strip club or anything like that afterwards. I have never been to a bar alone or danced with anyone besides her in 40 years. I was a changed person because of that decision she made that night.

The issues:
My oldest daughter had a bachelorette party three years ago. As the first daughter to marry, my wife went along with the group of wedding party ladies for a few days. When they returned I laughed at most of the stories of “the list” games they played. But when I heard of the one game where my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men I was concerned and told her that went too far. 

More recently our second daughter’s bachelorette outing was taking place. It was a week before Christmas and I remember well this second daughter of ours was not keen on her mom going originally. My wife was unhappy on not having an invite which later (reluctantly) came when another bridesmaid had to cancel and expenses needed coverage. My wife was then eager to go. Before she departed I reminded her not to do like she did on the first trip a few years earlier.

The night:
While I sat alone in a volunteer role amongst friends one evening a week before Christmas I received a simple text from my wife who was on night two of the bachelorette outing. The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “no that comes after the drag show”. I went home and Googled “male strippers”. Not a good idea. 

This recent chapter has me hurt and confused. If you’ve read the backstory, I feel we made a contract those years ago not to do these type of things. If you are familiar with the phrase “trickle truth” you will understand my concern. She finally told me she held money in air and was “forced” to touch stripper, but this was told to me after I had many sleeplessness nights knowing the first story of “nothing happened, and we’re not going to talk about it anymore” was not true. She said her head was turned away, but a video of our daughter with a stripper rubbing his leather covered sack on her up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job. 

Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom? Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires? Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards? Do most women think this is just plain fun, and could a women sit in a show like that and not know that when you hold up money a male dancer is going to come to you and give you attention? I especially would like comments if you are “religious”. Is there something I should do? I am willing to be more spontaneous and fun but it seems she wants something different than me. She has apologized, but I feel a deep divide now that I need help healing from your comments.


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## jlg07

So my take -- your wife was wrong for BOTH incidents. She SHOULD NOT have gone to the strip club, PERIOD. You had that as a boundary for your marriage -- and yet SHE decided to blow it off.

If she is against it for YOU, then she needs to be against it for HER. Her being "forced" to touch the strippers -- BS.
She WANTED to do that.
Face it, she wanted to be a bit wild after so many years of NOT doing that sort of stuff. You really need to talk with her.
Tell her that YOU are going to a strip club with the guys, and she how SHE reacts. I BET she would be pissed.
You had even told her no more BS like the first incident -- again, she ignored boundaries that your marriage had.

As for THIS:
"a video of our daughter being teabagged up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job. "

Umm WHAT? You're afraid for her JOB? What about her poor future husband? Don't you think HE deserves to know what she got up to at her "party"? Also, how do you know your wife didn't join in with that "because she was forced to do it"? You should make sure you look at her phone, and whoever else you got that video from to see if she got up to anything else.

I certainly understand how you have NO trust in what your wife says about this. She "FINALLY" told you that she touched a stripper, but that was after badgering her. What did she NOT tell you?

I think you need to make it clear to her how much damage she did to your relationship and that you basically have zero trust in her right now.


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## Diana7

I don't like the term 'religious' but I am a Christian (husband is also a Christian) and it does seem very hypocritical of her to go to these things when she has always said before it's not right and she didn't want to go. 
I would feel I had betrayed my husband if I went to a strip show. Did she know what was going to be involved before hand? I am guessing she talked to your daughter's about it?

I can fully understand you feeling let down and confused, I would be the same. I am not sure where you go from here but I wouldn't trust her to ever go to a bachelorette do again.
No she wasn't forced to do anything, she choose to. She could have just said to the group that she was going to give the strip show a miss and could have been a good example to your daughter's as well. 

I do think you need to have a real heart to heart about this.


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## 1Adam12

Diana7 said:


> I don't like the term 'religious' but I am a Christian (husband is also a Christian) and it does seem very hypocritical of her to go to these things when she has always said before it's not right and she didn't want to go.
> I would feel I had betrayed my husband if I went to a strip show. Did she know what was going to be involved before hand? I am guessing she talked to your daughter's about it?
> 
> I can fully understand you feeling let down and confused, I would be the same. I am not sure where you go from here but I wouldn't trust her to ever go to a bachelorette do again.
> No she wasn't forced to do anything, she choose to. She could have just said to the group that she was going to give the strip show a miss and could have been a good example to your daughter's as well.
> 
> I do think you need to have a real heart to heart about this.


She had about an hour before to let me know as others in the party did ask their BFs and SO, they also went from church to club and had to catch up with the rest of the group. She knows she won’t be trusted on any GNOs again.


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## jlg07

1Adam12 said:


> She had about an hour before to let me know as others in the party did ask their BFs and SO, they also went from church to club and had to catch up with the rest of the group. She knows she won’t be trusted on any GNOs again.


She went from CHURCH to a STRIP CLUB? Umm, doesn't she see the complete break of morals there?


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## hamadryad

Man, that sounds actually quite tame....Having worked security in a club that was primarily a female go go club, they would also host the occasional male strippers for bachelorette parties....Practically half of the women(upper/middle class. btw) there sucked the strippers ****s as they passed by them, ,tit effed them, etc... even some of the grannies...

Sorry for the graphic picture...

But really....It doesn't matter what anyone else on here thinks about it...It only matters what you think and the boundaries you and your wife have established as a couple...Do I think it's a hill you have to die on by what you posted? ....No, but what I say doesn't matter.....And I while I am sure no one was forced to do anything, I would imagine thee was a lot of "cmon, do it!" type of stuff that puts pressure on people...

At the end of the day, the ball is in your court on this..., If it's a deal breaker and if that's the case that's all that matters...


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## Al_Bundy

Obviously you're never going to get the whole truth and as others here said you have to decide. But let's be honest, take the teabagging video, you think it stopped with teabagging? Bet your SIL would love to see that video.

As another poster has mentioned, when you work a security gig you see things. Things your wife isn't just going to open up (_pun intended_) about.


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## happyhusband0005

I think there is some bad some good here. The bad is you had a boundary that she side stepped at your daughters bachelorette weekend. The good is she told you they were going before they went so I don't see this as a really horrible secretive betrayal. 

Strip clubs are generally goofy cheesy places in my experience. I have been to a number with my wife and the entertainment is usually the drunken shenanigans of the audience more than the strippers themselves. 

Yes people change, in her twenties my wife would have said she wouldn't be caught dead in a strip club. Late 30s early 40s she has found them entertaining and even got herself a few lap dances. We went to a place in Vegas that was a huge and had a smaller club within the complex with male dancers. They guys were mostly attractive and all but it was fairly cheesy and most of the women were mostly laughing about the whole thing. Putting a bill in a strippers G-string is far from a sexy or sexual thing in actual reality. It's usually all a big goof, the only audience members who seemed actually into the dancers in a sexual way were the gay men. Think of it like a comedy show where the comedians have very little clothing that is usually the reality in my experience. It's not like a porno where the strippers are going around getting BJs from the audience. I seriously doubt this is an activity your wife cares to participate in on a regular basis. 

On the religious point, as a k-12 Catholic educated person, it's covered, you go to confession say a few Hail Mary's and all is good. 

Now whens the bachelor party?


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## hamadryad

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think there is some bad some good here. The bad is you had a boundary that she side stepped at your daughters bachelorette weekend. The good is she told you they were going before they went so I don't see this as a really horrible secretive betrayal.
> 
> Strip clubs are generally goofy cheesy places in my experience. I have been to a number with my wife and the entertainment is usually the drunken shenanigans of the audience more than the strippers themselves.
> 
> Yes people change, in her twenties my wife would have said she wouldn't be caught dead in a strip club. Late 30s early 40s she has found them entertaining and even got herself a few lap dances. We went to a place in Vegas that was a huge and had a smaller club within the complex with male dancers. They guys were mostly attractive and all but it was fairly cheesy and most of the women were mostly laughing about the whole thing. Putting a bill in a strippers G-string is far from a sexy or sexual thing in actual reality. It's usually all a big goof, the only audience members who seemed actually into the dancers in a sexual way were the gay men. Think of it like a comedy show where the comedians have very little clothing that is usually the reality in my experience. It's not like a porno where the strippers are going around getting BJs from the audience. I seriously doubt this is an activity your wife cares to participate in on a regular basis.
> 
> On the religious point, as a k-12 Catholic educated person, it's covered, you go to confession say a few Hail Mary's and all is good.
> 
> Now whens the bachelor party?



I think what you are talking about is an "open" strip club, where all patrons go in and out....The stuff I mentioned earlier was done in a private room in the back of the club....Just like no one really touches the strippers in the open club, in the back room it was just about anything goes(male or female),,,believe me, what happened in the bachelor parties was far more explicit......Bear in mind though, that was before cell phone cameras came into use...I would imagine it would be harder with everyone carrying a cell phone ready to film a person at their worst moment...maybe it's tamer because of that? I dunno..

I'd imagine the OP's family had one of these "private room" deals...but I dunno...


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## Talker67

i would take it as a positive thing: that your wife in her advance years is getting hornier and kinkier! She is willing to try out stuff that twenty years ago would have been taboo.

sounds like you need to up your game in the bedroom


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## 1Adam12

jlg07 said:


> So my take -- your wife was wrong for BOTH incidents. She SHOULD NOT have gone to the strip club, PERIOD. You had that as a boundary for your marriage -- and yet SHE decided to blow it off.
> 
> If she is against it for YOU, then she needs to be against it for HER. Her being "forced" to touch the strippers -- BS.
> She WANTED to do that.
> Face it, she wanted to be a bit wild after so many years of NOT doing that sort of stuff. You really need to talk with her.
> Tell her that YOU are going to a strip club with the guys, and she how SHE reacts. I BET she would be pissed.
> 
> You had even told her no more BS like the first incident -- again, she ignored boundaries that your marriage had.
> 
> As for THIS:
> "a video of our daughter being teabagged up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job. "
> 
> Umm WHAT? You're afraid for her JOB? What about her poor future husband? Don't you think HE deserves to know what she got up to at her "party"? Also, how do you know your wife didn't join in with that "because she was forced to do it"? You should make sure you look at her phone, and whoever else you got that video from to see if she got up to anything else.
> 
> I certainly understand how you have NO trust in what your wife says about this. She "FINALLY" told you that she touched a stripper, but that was after badgering her. What did she NOT tell you?
> 
> I think you need to make it clear to her how much damage she did to your relationship and that you basically have zero trust in her right now.





happyhusband0005 said:


> I think there is some bad some good here. The bad is you had a boundary that she side stepped at your daughters bachelorette weekend. The good is she told you they were going before they went so I don't see this as a really horrible secretive betrayal.
> 
> Strip clubs are generally goofy cheesy places in my experience. I have been to a number with my wife and the entertainment is usually the drunken shenanigans of the audience more than the strippers themselves.
> 
> Yes people change, in her twenties my wife would have said she wouldn't be caught dead in a strip club. Late 30s early 40s she has found them entertaining and even got herself a few lap dances. We went to a place in Vegas that was a huge and had a smaller club within the complex with male dancers. They guys were mostly attractive and all but it was fairly cheesy and most of the women were mostly laughing about the whole thing. Putting a bill in a strippers G-string is far from a sexy or sexual thing in actual reality. It's usually all a big goof, the only audience members who seemed actually into the dancers in a sexual way were the gay men. Think of it like a comedy show where the comedians have very little clothing that is usually the reality in my experience. It's not like a porno where the strippers are going around getting BJs from the audience. I seriously doubt this is an activity your wife cares to participate in on a regular basis.
> 
> On the religious point, as a k-12 Catholic educated person, it's covered, you go to confession say a few Hail Mary's and all is good.
> 
> Now whens the bachelor party?


I think you hit a lot of good points about change. No, she told me once she was at strip club and couldn’t leave. She went to confession the day she got home😞


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## happyhusband0005

hamadryad said:


> I think what you are talking about is an "open" strip club, where all patrons go in and out....The stuff I mentioned earlier was done in a private room in the back of the club....Just like no one really touches the strippers in the open club, in the back room it was just about anything goes(male or female),,,believe me, what happened in the bachelor parties was far more explicit......
> 
> I'd imagine the OP's family had one of these "private room" deals...but I dunno...


What you describe must be at pretty sketchy club, these things happen but any major city has vice cops in the clubs and the place would be shut down quick or fined heavily. Even up in Montreal where the rules are much more lax than in the states I know at least one major club have been shut down for allowing more aggressive touching as it falls under prostitution laws.


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## hamadryad

happyhusband0005 said:


> What you describe must be at pretty sketchy club, these things happen but any major city has vice cops in the clubs and the place would be shut down quick or fined heavily. Even up in Montreal where the rules are much more lax than in the states I know at least one major club have been shut down for allowing more aggressive touching as it falls under prostitution laws.


This was more than 30 years ago.,..Quite frankly, I think I only set foot in a strip club one other time since then on a business trip.>Could things be different nowadays? Sure...

And bear in mind, these were considered "private parties"...I don't know the rules and laws,and I know a lot of strip club owners back then had the local PD in their pockets..._..if you get my drift...._


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## Diana7

1Adam12 said:


> She had about an hour before to let me know as others in the party did ask their BFs and SO, they also went from church to club and had to catch up with the rest of the group. She knows she won’t be trusted on any GNOs again.


So she didn't think to ask God if it was a good idea? 🤔


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## 1Adam12

1Adam12 said:


> She had about an hour before to let me know as others in the party did ask their BFs and SO, they also went from church to club and had to catch up with the rest of the group. She knows she won’t be trusted on any GNOs again.


She had time to let me know, but she did not let me know until she was there and “unable” to leave.


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## Diana7

1Adam12 said:


> She had about an hour before to let me know as others in the party did ask their BFs and SO, they also went from church to club and had to catch up with the rest of the group. She knows she won’t be trusted on any GNOs again.


She let you know but didn't want you to stop her. Did she ask you if you were ok about her going? 

My husband once asked his ex wife not to do something that he knew wouldn't be a good idea. She ignored him and it had all sorts of negative repercussions as he knew it would.


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## manwithnoname

Religion or not, society has gone for a ****. People have low morals and no shame. It was your wife who was responsible for the "no strip club" rule you had in your marriage all those years. Somewhere along the line she changed her mind. And she purposely only let you know when it was "too late" and she couldn't leave. ********. She could have left one minute after going in there. She could have not gone in there. 

I'd be super pissed, because it was her own rule she broke. 

Have fun at the bachelor party.


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## 1Adam12

manwithnoname said:


> Religion or not, society has gone for a *. People have low morals and no shame. It was your wife who was responsible for the "no strip club" rule you had in your marriage all those years. Somewhere along the line she changed her mind. And she purposely only let you know when it was "too late" and she couldn't leave. *****. She could have left one minute after going in there. She could have not gone in there.
> 
> I'd be super pissed, because it was her own rule she broke.
> 
> Have fun at the bachelor party.


I think you hit the nail on the head on the way I feel about social morals. Too bad the SIL did not want a bachelor party, and as the FIL, I wouldn’t have been invited anyway. I truly have no desire to see female strippers. I find them sad and broken. Not saying I don’t mind watching sexually explicit R movie scenes with my wife. It’s different if it’s done together.


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## Evinrude58

1Adam12 said:


> She had time to let me know, but she did not let me know until she was there and “unable” to leave.


I doubt anything really bad happened, but your wife is such a hypocritical liar, who knows.
What I would do is get in your truck, drive to the nearest strip club with a single guy buddy, and head to the strip club. Get forced to touch the strippers. Get forced to do all kinds of things. And go home and don’t tell your wife ANYTHING.

you need to make a major statement that what’s good for the goose……

Did I mention your wife is untrustworthy?
That she expects piety on your end, and while she heads off to wild strip clubs and LoVES bachelorette parties? Oh, and you are acting like a whipped puppy when you should be laughing in her face while you go to a strip club, not because you feel the need, or want to, but because your wife needs to learn a lesson in worry, in loyalty, in the value of trust, etc.

If you rugsweep this like you have multiple times in the past, don’t worry, there will be more dirt to sweep. Just my opinion.

btw, I’m not perfect. I’ve been to a strip club. I enjoyed it. But I know it’s wrong and didn’t while married. I also think it’s trashy. And I think the kind of people that throw these events for women….. it would be an instant dealbreaker for me if I found out about it should I choose to consider marriage again because it shows the bride’s morals as well as her close friend’s…
Tea bagged at her bachelorette party by a stripper—- shameful. Poor guy who marries her….. his problem. 

I didn’t have a bachelor party nor did I want one, and wouldn’t throw that kind, nor did my best friend want that nonsense. 
your wife should be totally ashamed. She isn’t. How can I say that? Well, she couldn’t wait to go to her second bachelorette party, that’s why.

My trust would be totally shaken.


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## Al_Bundy

hamadryad said:


> This was more than 30 years ago.,..Quite frankly, I think I only set foot in a strip club one other time since then on a business trip.>Could things be different nowadays? Sure...
> 
> And bear in mind, these were considered "private parties"...I don't know the rules and laws,and I know a lot of strip club owners back then had the local PD in their pockets..._..if you get my drift...._


Agreed, a lot of times these parties are at normal venues, not always strip clubs because as you said they are "private". It does shine a light on a darker side of human nature and we would like to think that nobody we know would ever do anything like this...........it's always those "other people".


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## Tdbo

jlg07 said:


> I think you need to make it clear to her how much damage she did to your relationship and that you basically have zero trust in her right now.


OP, This, a 1000x's this.

She needs to be called out on this because of her hypocrisy. This was the rule that she imposed. She broke it once. Even after you gave her a mulligan on the first, she demonstrated how much she values your relationship by doing it again. tell her that her apologies are merely noise. They aren't worth a damn if there is no remorse or modification of behavior behind them.

She needs consequences, badly. If I was in your shoes, I would study up on and implement a short term 180 on her as an attention getter. She would be feeling the cold for a long time. Tell her that she has much work to do to restore trust in your relationship. Make her feel the damage.

I'd also tell her that perhaps you are going to forgo the church going for awhile. If she asks why, tell her that you live the good word, she is merely a poser. Tell her that you aren't going to participate in the charade. Tell her that when she starts living the religion, you will consider going back.

At least your daughter wasn't eager to have her mom there. Now, you know why. IMO, daughter deserves some shade. Seriously consider ratcheting back your participation in the wedding to the bare minimum.

In summary, you need to grab the bull by the horns. Actions have consequences. Start asserting them.


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## DownByTheRiver

Her desire to go along and be one of the girls with her daughter overcame her common sense. I think this is a case of choosing her daughter over you which is not unusual for a mother, and I assume she knows it's going to cause some friction at home since you had an agreement that she breeched. 

Bachelor and bachelorette parties seem to be the excuse for a lot of stripper nonsense. Wouldn't you think by the time someone felt they were mature enough to be married, that that wouldn't be such a temptation?

When I was young I went to two business related bachelorette parties at male strip clubs. There is certainly no reason you have to do anything except sit far from the stage and not participate but I'm sure she wanted to try to keep up with her daughter and friends. Some people are hungry to think they are friends with their offspring, even when they may know they weren't really wanted there. That could even be why they chose the venue to begin with. 

I just think she chose howling around with the daughter over your feelings on this. Don't know what to tell you to do about it except that if you had an agreement you're justified in your anger.


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## Benbutton

Here's the thing, it's not so much the strip club but rather her violating her own rule (or boundary). There is one way to cure a hypocrite... time for you and some buddies to hit a strip club and have a lap dance or two.


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## 1Adam12

DownByTheRiver said:


> Her desire to go along and be one of the girls with her daughter overcame her common sense. I think this is a case of choosing her daughter over you which is not unusual for a mother, and I assume she knows it's going to cause some friction at home since you had an agreement that she breeched.
> 
> Bachelor and bachelorette parties seem to be the excuse for a lot of stripper nonsense. Wouldn't you think by the time someone felt they were mature enough to be married, that that wouldn't be such a temptation?
> 
> When I was young I went to two business related bachelorette parties at male strip clubs. There is certainly no reason you have to do anything except sit far from the stage and not participate but I'm sure she wanted to try to keep up with her daughter and friends. Some people are hungry to think they are friends with their offspring, even when they may know they weren't really wanted there. That could even be why they chose the venue to begin with.
> 
> I just think she chose howling around with the daughter over your feelings on this. Don't know what to tell you to do about it except that if you had an agreement you're justified in your anger.


Agreed on this. I need more female opinions on what caused this. Am I lacking?


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## Evinrude58

1Adam12 said:


> Agreed on this. I need more female opinions on what caused this*. Am I lacking*?


Yes, it’s all your fault. You shoulda bought her more flowers, told her she was pretty, and gave her more general attention. SMH.
Your wife’s shenanigans are her own fault. But I’m sure she and her therapist can dream up a way to make you own it , and believe you can fix it, and leave her with zero consequences if that’s what you need to avoid getting out of your comfort zone and dealing with this properly. Sorry for the 2x4, but you need it badly. What would you tell your son if his wife was doing what yours is doing?


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## Prodigal

1Adam12 said:


> ...she did not let me know until she was there and “unable” to leave.


So she was incapable of walking out the door? C'mon ... she's not taking responsibility for HER decision/choice. 

Frankly, your wife sounds like a hypocrite to me. I don't know what would make me more angry: her going to the strip club or her trying to expunge herself from the responsibility of a poor decision.


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## ConanHub

1Adam12 said:


> I am a man who would like some input to help me understand the way the sexes may differ in desires and boundary crossing. If I did the same things described below instead of my wife, our relationship would have serious, if not terminal, problems.
> 
> Backstory:
> My wife and I have been together for 39 years, married for 36. We were each other’s first and only. I have no doubt that in the past, present, or future of our commitment we’ve both been exclusive. We raised three daughters together and the youngest is now 23. All three girls are out the house and well adjusted. A Catholic in my youth, my mom moved me on to fundamentalist churches by my early teens. In college my new GF and future wife was “very” Catholic when we met and she got me back on track with the same Catholic faith of my youth.
> She made it clear that we were to be a church going, pious union. When visiting our favorite weekend getaway of New Orleans over our years together I learned early on (from her insistence) that we don’t go near the racy clubs on Bourbon Street. On one of our first outings together we were down Bourbon Street with a group of friends and she was very uncomfortable and guided me in another direction while our friends went into a strip club. We went take in other historic sites instead. I respected her for that decision and we never set foot in a strip club or anything like that afterwards. I have never been to a bar alone or danced with anyone besides her in 40 years. I was a changed person because of that decision she made that night.
> 
> The issues:
> My oldest daughter had a bachelorette party three years ago. As the first daughter to marry, my wife went along with the group of wedding party ladies for a few days. When they returned I laughed at most of the stories of “the list” games they played. But when I heard of the one game where my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men I was concerned and told her that went too far.
> 
> More recently our second daughter’s bachelorette outing was taking place. It was a week before Christmas and I remember well this second daughter of ours was not keen on her mom going originally. My wife was unhappy on not having an invite which later (reluctantly) came when another bridesmaid had to cancel and expenses needed coverage. My wife was then eager to go. Before she departed I reminded her not to do like she did on the first trip a few years earlier.
> 
> The night:
> While I sat alone in a volunteer role amongst friends one evening a week before Christmas I received a simple text from my wife who was on night two of the bachelorette outing. The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “no that comes after the drag show”. I went home and Googled “male strippers”. Not a good idea.
> 
> This recent chapter has me hurt and confused. If you’ve read the backstory, I feel we made a contract those years ago not to do these type of things. If you are familiar with the phrase “trickle truth” you will understand my concern. She finally told me she held money in air and was “forced” to touch stripper, but this was told to me after I had many sleeplessness nights knowing the first story of “nothing happened, and we’re not going to talk about it anymore” was not true. She said her head was turned away, but a video of our daughter being teabagged up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job.
> 
> Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom? Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires? Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards? Do most women think this is just plain fun, and could a women sit in a show like that and not know that when you hold up money a male dancer is going to come to you and give you attention? I especially would like comments if you are “religious”. Is there something I should do? I am willing to be more spontaneous and fun but it seems she wants something different than me. She has apologized, but I feel a deep divide now that I need help healing from your comments.


Your wife and daughters are kind of gross?

How do your sons in law feel about their new wife's behavior?

Your wife is acting as screwy as a squirrel on meth.

Is she having medical problems?

It's your call and you've been with her almost a decade longer than I've been with Mrs. C but I don't play.

If we had established the boundaries you had, we have similar ones, and she disrespected me the way your wife did, not once, but twice including fondling stripper penis, I would have papers served and it would be up to her to somehow convince me why she would even be worth keeping.

It's up to you but decisive actions get far better results than just pondering or trying to talk to a woman who already set boundaries and has spit in your face over her own standards twice.

Not that I'm suggesting it but how would she like it if you took some money that you both agreed would be for something you two were going to do together and instead you used it to go out with some wild young men and got lap dances?

Now my wife and are are committed Christians so I wouldn't get payback but I would walk away from a ridiculous woman who has clearly lost her mind.


----------



## ccpowerslave

I can say with some of the people I know if you brought a church boy to a bachelor party and somehow he was dumb enough to go to a strip club these guys would be giving the strippers major cash to corrupt the guy just for a laugh.

It’s part of the reason I have never been to a strip club. The people who go to them are looking to drag you down into their low down dirty rats nest they live in so they feel better about themselves.

I hope your wife didn’t do anything but I know at some of these parties the women perform actual sex acts. Then I REALLY hope none of that is on tape somewhere.

Not sure why people think they need to do this.


----------



## EleGirl

1Adam12 said:


> But when I heard of the one game where my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men I was concerned and told her that went too far.


Does your wife realize that this is very bad thing to do? It's not funny as I doubt most men would be ok with some strange woman following them into the bathroom and taking their photo. This could have ended very badly for her.

Your daughters were ok with all this? Were they just drunk?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

I know this is about your wife, she was completely wrong btw and I wouldn't trust a damn thing she says, but what about your daughter? She had a strippers balls in her face?! WTF? Does her finance/husband know about all this?

Does your wife have any guilt or remorse of her idiotic and inappropriate behavior?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

1Adam12 said:


> Agreed on this. I need more female opinions on what caused this. Am I lacking?


Oh don't start making this your own fault. Honestly it probably makes her feel young and hip to hang around with her daughter and her daughter's friends and that's probably all it's really about. It's honestly kind of a cliche.


----------



## ConanHub

1Adam12 said:


> She had about an hour before to let me know as others in the party did ask their BFs and SO, they also went from church to club and had to catch up with the rest of the group. She knows she won’t be trusted on any GNOs again.


So these "church" ladies gathered at church and then went to a male review and engaged in various sex acts, including groping genitals and some type of oral? I don't know what teabagging is but it sounds like your daughter was using her face on the guys junk.

Just what kind of church is this???


----------



## Evinrude58

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh don't start making this your own fault. Honestly it probably makes her feel young and hip to hang around with her daughter and her daughter's friends and that's probably all it's really about. It's honestly kind of a cliche.


Following a male stripper into the restroom isn’t for taking pics of him, in my opinion.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Your wife is a hypocrite...and i would tell her she can no longer tell you what is off base...she holds no credibility at all.


----------



## 1Adam12

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh don't start making this your own fault. Honestly it probably makes her feel young and hip to hang around with her daughter and her daughter's friends and that's probably all it's really about. It's honestly kind of a cliche.


Thanks. Very honest opinion.


----------



## 1Adam12

Evinrude58 said:


> Following a male stripper into the restroom isn’t for taking pics of him, in my opinion.


There was no strippers on the first bachelorette outing years ago. That was just men in general going in the restroom.


----------



## Talker67

Evinrude58 said:


> Following a male stripper into the restroom isn’t for taking pics of him, in my opinion.


that is for sure


----------



## Talker67

what others have said about the uber religious types being sexual hypocrites is 100% true. many get caught in multiple infidelities, including the preachers. So there is that...she maybe acting the part of a religious christian, but really is nothing of the sort.

but there is another possibility that sounds more plausible to me. being very "religious", she probably did not drink much normally. then she gets to this party, and the girls are buying her drinks, and she does not know how to drink, can not handle the booze, flips out, an a 2nd personality pops out....a slutty one that she represses normally. And that 2nd personality took over, had a good time, drank much more, and did sexual things she only fantasized about. If this is the case, she is one of those people who should never have another drop of whiskey in their lives....they are bipolar when drinking.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Al_Bundy said:


> Agreed, a lot of times these parties are at normal venues, not always strip clubs because as you said they are "private". It does shine a light on a darker side of human nature and we would like to think that nobody we know would ever do anything like this...........it's always those "other people".


My Wife and I have been to quite a few strip clubs all over the country, not a ton probably 8 in total over the years. We've been in private VIP Rooms and every club we have been to there are cameras everywhere and bouncers keeping an eye on things. I've never been to one that had a private party room that was completely closed off, seen a couple with a velvet rope and a bouncer to keep the general public out but nothing you could get away with a blow job party. I will say all the places we have gone have been in fairly large cities and the clubs have been higher end. I have seen guys try to pay for extras and that didn't end well at all. 

We went to one big club in Miami that had a private VIP lap dance rooms (big enough for two customers and 2 strippers) that was really private closing door and all. Still a sneaky camera in that room. I can imagine a scenario where the customer offers enough money for the stripper and the security guys watching the cameras. But in those rooms you were not allowed to pay the stripper directly you had to pay outside at a counter for x numbers of songs and when the song counts were up a bouncer comes in and says times up. 

Private house parties or things of that nature would be different nowadays you can arrange anything you want with a little effort. But there you're not getting a stripper you're getting a prostitute


----------



## Tdbo

1Adam12 said:


> Agreed on this. I need more female opinions on what caused this. Am I lacking?


The only thing you are lacking is the intestinal fortitude for appropriate sanctions.
You have been disrespected twice by your wife.
You have two daughters, that on two different occasions, aided and abetted the undermining of your relationship with your wife.
I'd draw the conclusion that at least two of your three daughters have no respect for their "Dear Old Dad."
I'd say that not only does your wife not have respect for you, but she is a flaming hypocrite to boot. You need to change that dynamic through some strong action.
I'd say that you need to explore your relationship with your daughters. They need to atone for, and experience proper payback for their disrespect.
All three of them need to understand that their relationship with you hangs in the balance. I'd have had some real issues with participating in either of their weddings after their alleged "Rite of Passage."
Unless you can find a rumpled old man in a lab coat with a Delorean and a Flux Capacitor, there is not much that you can do about the first wedding.
However, you can extract a pound of flesh on the second.
I agree with Conan .I'd just blow the damn thing wide open and make her justify why you ought to remain married.
I'd let both your daughters know that their actions have put your marriage, and their relationship with their dad, in jeopardy.
Tell them that with daughters like them, who needs enemies?
Put the onus on the three of them to make their cases.
Make sure that they are scared s**tless.
You have to decide what payback looks like for you. I know that I (especially after the second event,) would be lawyering up. Have some respect for yourself. Break them.
At a minimum, a set of divorce papers from the internet for your jurisdiction, properly placed on your kitchen table, can be motivational.
What I do know, is that if you don't get a handle on it now, you will be experiencing the same thing again when #3 gets married.


----------



## sokillme

1Adam12 said:


> I am a man who would like some input to help me understand the way the sexes may differ in desires and boundary crossing. If I did the same things described below instead of my wife, our relationship would have serious, if not terminal, problems.
> 
> Backstory:
> My wife and I have been together for 39 years, married for 36. We were each other’s first and only. I have no doubt that in the past, present, or future of our commitment we’ve both been exclusive. We raised three daughters together and the youngest is now 23. All three girls are out the house and well adjusted. A Catholic in my youth, my mom moved me on to fundamentalist churches by my early teens. In college my new GF and future wife was “very” Catholic when we met and she got me back on track with the same Catholic faith of my youth.
> She made it clear that we were to be a church going, pious union. When visiting our favorite weekend getaway of New Orleans over our years together I learned early on (from her insistence) that we don’t go near the racy clubs on Bourbon Street. On one of our first outings together we were down Bourbon Street with a group of friends and she was very uncomfortable and guided me in another direction while our friends went into a strip club. We went take in other historic sites instead. I respected her for that decision and we never set foot in a strip club or anything like that afterwards. I have never been to a bar alone or danced with anyone besides her in 40 years. I was a changed person because of that decision she made that night.
> 
> The issues:
> My oldest daughter had a bachelorette party three years ago. As the first daughter to marry, my wife went along with the group of wedding party ladies for a few days. When they returned I laughed at most of the stories of “the list” games they played. But when I heard of the one game where my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men I was concerned and told her that went too far.
> 
> More recently our second daughter’s bachelorette outing was taking place. It was a week before Christmas and I remember well this second daughter of ours was not keen on her mom going originally. My wife was unhappy on not having an invite which later (reluctantly) came when another bridesmaid had to cancel and expenses needed coverage. My wife was then eager to go. Before she departed I reminded her not to do like she did on the first trip a few years earlier.
> 
> The night:
> While I sat alone in a volunteer role amongst friends one evening a week before Christmas I received a simple text from my wife who was on night two of the bachelorette outing. The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “no that comes after the drag show”. I went home and Googled “male strippers”. Not a good idea.
> 
> This recent chapter has me hurt and confused. If you’ve read the backstory, I feel we made a contract those years ago not to do these type of things. If you are familiar with the phrase “trickle truth” you will understand my concern. She finally told me she held money in air and was “forced” to touch stripper, but this was told to me after I had many sleeplessness nights knowing the first story of “nothing happened, and we’re not going to talk about it anymore” was not true. She said her head was turned away, but a video of our daughter being teabagged up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job.
> 
> Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom? Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires? Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards? Do most women think this is just plain fun, and could a women sit in a show like that and not know that when you hold up money a male dancer is going to come to you and give you attention? I especially would like comments if you are “religious”. Is there something I should do? I am willing to be more spontaneous and fun but it seems she wants something different than me. She has apologized, but I feel a deep divide now that I need help healing from your comments.


This one hits home for me, I have skipped so many bachelor parties out of respect for my wife, if she turned around and did that I would be lived. Go to the next one.

Yeah that is bull, and you daughters pulling her in makes it worse. They seem to have no respect for you or the marriage.

Stop being so nice. Your wife and your daughters obviously has grown comfortable and have NO FEAR. A little fear is good. The fact that you even have to write this post probably means you already WAY TOO NICE. People who are nice and accommodating get bullied, even in marriage.

Besides the whole trust thing, I would tell her much of your effort to be respectful to you seems like a waste. Then there would be many nights I would be going down to the bar to eat dinner away from home. Let your wife sit alone a home and think about what that life will be like.

If she brings it up, just brush her off. "Yeah I am going out tonight". Then go get a nice dinner and watch the game somewhere, or whatever.

After about a few weeks of that I would just state, "I am struggling with the fact that I think we have grown to have different morals." If she wants to argue just leave. No arguments, statements and no discussion. "What are you going to say? You participated in our daughter having pictures taken of some strangers genitals in her fact a few weeks before she was getting married?" Who are you? Gross." Those are the kind of cold and biting statements that should be coming out of your mouth.

Your son-in-laws are nuts by the way, they should be running away as fast as they can.


----------



## sokillme

ccpowerslave said:


> I can say with some of the people I know if you brought a church boy to a bachelor party and somehow he was dumb enough to go to a strip club these guys would be giving the strippers major cash to corrupt the guy just for a laugh.
> 
> It’s part of the reason I have never been to a strip club. The people who go to them are looking to drag you down into their low down dirty rats nest they live in so they feel better about themselves.
> 
> I hope your wife didn’t do anything but I know at some of these parties the women perform actual sex acts. Then I REALLY hope none of that is on tape somewhere.
> 
> Not sure why people think they need to do this.


Yeah but this happened twice.


----------



## Diana7

Benbutton said:


> Here's the thing, it's not so much the strip club but rather her violating her own rule (or boundary). There is one way to cure a hypocrite... time for you and some buddies to hit a strip club and have a lap dance or two.


I honestly don't think that stooping to her level is the answer.


----------



## Diana7

1Adam12 said:


> Agreed on this. I need more female opinions on what caused this. Am I lacking?


You are not lacking but SHE is lacking. Don't start blaming yourself.


----------



## Evinrude58

It’s a real shame that OP has lived his life one way according to his wife’s demands of all this piety, and then she not only encourages, but participated in their wild bachelorette parties that most non-Christians wouldn’t even do. And his wife participates to the extent of “ “touching” Strippers and following men into restrooms—— then pretending she was pressure or coerced by peer pressure (her daughters????)………

I’d wager OP has been told a very tame story of the extent of his wife’s lurid activities at these parties, and that his wife and daughters are laughing about it behind his back.
Nobody that does this kind of stuff and yet portrays themselves as churchgoing Christians wants their squeaky clean image tarnished. She’s lying.
I really don’t even know how OP should handle this. He’s been betrayed by his wife and his own daughters. Really a sad situation.
I’m very sorry OP. This is beyond my understanding.


----------



## Young at Heart

Dear 1 Adam 12;



> Backstory:
> My wife and I have been together for 39 years, *married for 36.* ...... We *raised three daughters* together and the youngest is now 23. *All three girls are out the house and well adjusted.* ......future *wife was “very” Catholic *when we met and she got me back on track with the same Catholic faith of my youth.
> 
> ....we were down *Bourbon Street *with a group of friends and she was very uncomfortable and guided me in another direction *while our friends went into a strip club*.....
> 
> The issues:
> My *oldest daughter had a bachelorette party three years ago*. .... I laughed at most of the stories of “the list” games they played. But .... *my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men *I was concerned and told her that went too far.
> 
> More recently our *second daughter’s bachelorette outing* was taking place. ..... Before she departed *I reminded her not to do like she did on the first trip* a few years earlier.
> 
> The night:
> .....I received a simple text from my wife who was on night two of the bachelorette outing. The text was “strip club”. I replied back *“we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?”* I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “no that comes after the drag show”. I went home and Googled “male strippers”. Not a good idea.
> 
> This recent chapter has me hurt and confused. ...... the first story of *“nothing happened, and we’re not going to talk about it anymore” *was not true. *She said her head was turned away*, but a video of *our daughter being teabagged *up close....
> 
> *Do people change this much* or am I missing something about my wife *being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom?* ........ Can you be a good mom for a night and *put aside years of Catholic education *you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards?........* I especially would like comments if you are “religious”*. *Is there something I should do? *





1Adam12 said:


> She had about an hour before to let me know as *others in the party did ask their BFs and SO*, they also went f*rom church to club* and had to catch up with the rest of the group. She knows she won’t be trusted on any GNOs again.


I few thoughts. I am an older man. 50+year sacramental marriage, so I am not really the demographic you are looking for.

However, You have been married for 36 years, raised three well adjusted adult independent daughters and your wife has done two questionable things and both in the presence of your daughters? I feel that you are way over thinking what probably happened with your wife. She was chaperoned by her daughters! Based on what I call tea-bagging, your younger daughter was probably not the best chaperone. However, if this was the worst that happened, and you really don't know exactly what happened, I would cut her some slack. 

When my kids were growing up, my wife and I would say that one teenager has about half a brain, when you put 3 or more hormonal teenagers in the same room they have no brain. There is this thing were groups can get in real trouble where just the people individually would act better. I would bet in both situations your daughters were being peer pressured into doing things by the other women that they were not completely comfortable with. Put yourself in your wife's shoes for a moment. Your daughter is doing something a little to a lot naughty to skanky and your daughter looks over at her mom? Most daughters would be mortified at that point. I can see in the first situation where your wife might go into a restroom and made sure she saw little to nothing, because everyone else was taking turns and her turn came up.

I have witnessed at various places over the years a few pre-wedding "hen parties" and the alcohol fueled grossness can get way out of hand. But still most of the women seem to be laughing and having a great time with each other.

But the purpose of these things is to celebrate a life milestone and to bond with close friends. You don't go to these kinds of parties to be with strangers. At both of them your daughters were transitioning from young adults under their parent's wings into starting their own family's. I can see why you wife, your daughters mom, wanted to be part of that transitional celebration and bonding ceremony.

I was at a dinner party at a private club with my wife that had an unusual women's bathroom with floor to ceiling glass windows stalls on about the 75th floor. After the first wife came back from the bathroom, all the women had to go see and then they dragged their husbands into the bathroom, just to look while made sure no other woman came into the bathroom. I have also been at some strange bars, where there was a glass window above the urinal where you could look out into the bar and you weren't sure if it was a one-way mirror or not allowing people to see your upper body.

Now let's go all Catholic on you. You should understand the concept of free will and temptation. You should also understand the power of confession and absolution. If she is a good Catholic, I would wager she confessed what she did. Assuming she did something she shouldn't have, if God can forgive her, why can't you? Do you really have higher standards of behavior than God?

You asked what you should do. My advise it tell your wife and you apologize to her for how you acted and are ashamed of what you thought she might be capable of doing. Tell her that you know she is a good woman, a good wife, and a good mother to your daughters. Tell her you got crazy jealous because you love her so much and your marriage to her is so special and important to you. Then really, really forgive her and stop thinking about it. Move on. And by all means stop thinking about New Orleans that was decades ago.

Read some of the other posts on TAM. Count your blessings. Your glass is more than half full, if this is the only problem in your marriage, your glass is full almost to the brim.

After you hanr readjusted your perspective, apologized to her and forgiven her. The talk to her. Discuss with her that the two of you are now transitioning your marriage into an empty nest phase. Tell her you want to find out what she is thinking, what her dreams are, what adventures she wants to have. Tell her that what happened shook you up and made your realize how important she is. As such, you want to start spending more time talking to her, bonding with her, and sharing you goals for the rest of your life together. Don't smoother her or be too clingy. Make sure you each have separate lives, but use this as an opportunity to bond.

Go get a beer and watch some football. Good luck


----------



## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> It’s a real shame that OP has lived his life one way according to his wife’s demands of all this piety, and then she not only encourages, but participated in their wild bachelorette parties that most non-Christians wouldn’t even do. And his wife participates to the extent of “ “touching” Strippers and following men into restrooms—— then pretending she was pressure or coerced by peer pressure (her daughters????)………
> 
> I’d wager OP has been told a very tame story of the extent of his wife’s lurid activities at these parties, and that his wife and daughters are laughing about it behind his back.
> Nobody that does this kind of stuff and yet portrays themselves as churchgoing Christians wants their squeaky clean image tarnished. She’s lying.
> I really don’t even know how OP should handle this. He’s been betrayed by his wife and his own daughters. Really a sad situation.
> I’m very sorry OP. This is beyond my understanding.


From what he has has said he wouldnt want to go to strip clubs anyway which is good. So in that way she hasnt been stopping him from doing that.
I agree though, what she did was bizarre. Off to church and then off to see a stripper. So hypocritical.


----------



## Diana7

Young at Heart said:


> Dear 1 Adam 12;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I few thoughts. I am an older man. 50+year sacramental marriage, so I am not really the demographic you are looking for.
> 
> However, You have been married for 36 years, raised three well adjusted adult independent daughters and your wife has done two questionable things and both in the presence of your daughters? I feel that you are way over thinking what probably happened with your wife. She was chaperoned by her daughters! Based on what I call tea-bagging, your younger daughter was probably not the best chaperone. However, if this was the worst that happened, and you really don't know exactly what happened, I would cut her some slack.
> 
> When my kids were growing up, my wife and I would say that one teenager has about half a brain, when you put 3 or more hormonal teenagers in the same room they have no brain. There is this thing were groups can get in real trouble where just the people individually would act better. I would bet in both situations your daughters were being peer pressured into doing things by the other women that they were not completely comfortable with. Put yourself in your wife's shoes for a moment. Your daughter is doing something a little to a lot naughty to skanky and your daughter looks over at her mom? Most daughters would be mortified at that point. I can see in the first situation where your wife might go into a restroom and made sure she saw little to nothing, because everyone else was taking turns and her turn came up.
> 
> I have witnessed at various places over the years a few pre-wedding "hen parties" and the alcohol fueled grossness can get way out of hand. But still most of the women seem to be laughing and having a great time with each other.
> 
> But the purpose of these things is to celebrate a life milestone and to bond with close friends. You don't go to these kinds of parties to be with strangers. At both of them your daughters were transitioning from young adults under their parent's wings into starting their own family's. I can see why you wife, your daughters mom, wanted to be part of that transitional celebration and bonding ceremony.
> 
> I was at a dinner party at a private club with my wife that had an unusual women's bathroom with floor to ceiling glass windows stalls on about the 75th floor. After the first wife came back from the bathroom, all the women had to go see and then they dragged their husbands into the bathroom, just to look while made sure no other woman came into the bathroom. I have also been at some strange bars, where there was a glass window above the urinal where you could look out into the bar and you weren't sure if it was a one-way mirror or not allowing people to see your upper body.
> 
> Now let's go all Catholic on you. You should understand the concept of free will and temptation. You should also understand the power of confession and absolution. If she is a good Catholic, I would wager she confessed what she did. Assuming she did something she shouldn't have, if God can forgive her, why can't you? Do you really have higher standards of behavior than God?
> 
> You asked what you should do. My advise it tell your wife and you apologize to her for how you acted and are ashamed of what you thought she might be capable of doing. Tell her that you know she is a good woman, a good wife, and a good mother to your daughters. Tell her you got crazy jealous because you love her so much and your marriage to her is so special and important to you. Then really, really forgive her and stop thinking about it. Move on. And by all means stop thinking about New Orleans that was decades ago.
> 
> Read some of the other posts on TAM. Count your blessings. Your glass is more than half full, if this is the only problem in your marriage, your glass is full almost to the brim.
> 
> After you hanr readjusted your perspective, apologized to her and forgiven her. The talk to her. Discuss with her that the two of you are now transitioning your marriage into an empty nest phase. Tell her you want to find out what she is thinking, what her dreams are, what adventures she wants to have. Tell her that what happened shook you up and made your realize how important she is. As such, you want to start spending more time talking to her, bonding with her, and sharing you goals for the rest of your life together. Don't smoother her or be too clingy. Make sure you each have separate lives, but use this as an opportunity to bond.
> 
> Go get a beer and watch some football. Good luck


I understand that you are trying to smooth things over, and sweep it all under the carpet, but she was the one who acted badly, no reason AT ALL for him to apologise at all, he did nothing wrong. Its not as if he has thrown her out and handed her divorce papers. 

As for your description of hen parties. you make it sound as if they are innocent. You make their daughters and his wife sound as if they were poor weak ladies who were pressured into what they did. These are women well into adulthood, one the mother of three adult children. They willingly went along to a few days of all this stuff. 
No one forced any of them to do this. They could have done completely different things on their hen do. as many others do, away from drink and bars and strippers. They could have said no, they could have walked out. 
Plus in the UK not many mums are invited to these dos, its usually just similar age friends. She could have asked what was going to happen and not gone. 

Yes she can be forgiven, but she went to church and then on to a stripper, that is hardly someone who thinks what they did was wrong.


----------



## Talker67

happyhusband0005 said:


> My Wife and I have been to quite a few strip clubs all over the country, not a ton probably 8 in total over the years. We've been in private VIP Rooms and every club we have been to there are cameras everywhere and bouncers keeping an eye on things. I've never been to one that had a private party room that was completely closed off, seen a couple with a velvet rope and a bouncer to keep the general public out but nothing you could get away with a blow job party. I will say all the places we have gone have been in fairly large cities and the clubs have been higher end. I have seen guys try to pay for extras and that didn't end well at all.
> 
> We went to one big club in Miami that had a private VIP lap dance rooms (big enough for two customers and 2 strippers) that was really private closing door and all. Still a sneaky camera in that room. I can imagine a scenario where the customer offers enough money for the stripper and the security guys watching the cameras. But in those rooms you were not allowed to pay the stripper directly you had to pay outside at a counter for x numbers of songs and when the song counts were up a bouncer comes in and says times up.
> 
> Private house parties or things of that nature would be different nowadays you can arrange anything you want with a little effort. But there you're not getting a stripper you're getting a prostitute


Normally i would agree with you, but i was at a stag party once that was in a small town bar (that they closed for a private party) where they brought in some strippers to dance. It started out like you said, but near the end the strippers were taking the guys into a back room for BJs and whatever you wanted to pay for. So i would not say 100% that it could not happen just the way the OP stated.


----------



## Tdbo

Diana7 said:


> I honestly don't think that stooping to her level is the answer.


This.
Besides, I'll almost bet that when confronted, her solution will be a couple of trips to the t**ty bar, in which he can get his "Grope on," then call it even.
NO WAY, and I mean ABSOLUTELY NO WAY, should she get off that easy.
She and her daughters need to feel some real pain.


----------



## manwithnoname

1Adam12 said:


> Agreed on this. I need more female opinions on what caused this. *Am I lacking*?


If you let her off without any consequences, then yes.


----------



## syhoybenden

Ask her how "they" tasted, and watch her eyes.


----------



## manwithnoname

syhoybenden said:


> Ask her how "they" tasted, and watch her eyes.


Or where she was the last time she ate whipped cream.


----------



## Divinely Favored

1Adam12 said:


> I am a man who would like some input to help me understand the way the sexes may differ in desires and boundary crossing. If I did the same things described below instead of my wife, our relationship would have serious, if not terminal, problems.
> 
> Backstory:
> My wife and I have been together for 39 years, married for 36. We were each other’s first and only. I have no doubt that in the past, present, or future of our commitment we’ve both been exclusive. We raised three daughters together and the youngest is now 23. All three girls are out the house and well adjusted. A Catholic in my youth, my mom moved me on to fundamentalist churches by my early teens. In college my new GF and future wife was “very” Catholic when we met and she got me back on track with the same Catholic faith of my youth.
> She made it clear that we were to be a church going, pious union. When visiting our favorite weekend getaway of New Orleans over our years together I learned early on (from her insistence) that we don’t go near the racy clubs on Bourbon Street. On one of our first outings together we were down Bourbon Street with a group of friends and she was very uncomfortable and guided me in another direction while our friends went into a strip club. We went take in other historic sites instead. I respected her for that decision and we never set foot in a strip club or anything like that afterwards. I have never been to a bar alone or danced with anyone besides her in 40 years. I was a changed person because of that decision she made that night.
> 
> The issues:
> My oldest daughter had a bachelorette party three years ago. As the first daughter to marry, my wife went along with the group of wedding party ladies for a few days. When they returned I laughed at most of the stories of “the list” games they played. But when I heard of the one game where my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men I was concerned and told her that went too far.
> 
> More recently our second daughter’s bachelorette outing was taking place. It was a week before Christmas and I remember well this second daughter of ours was not keen on her mom going originally. My wife was unhappy on not having an invite which later (reluctantly) came when another bridesmaid had to cancel and expenses needed coverage. My wife was then eager to go. Before she departed I reminded her not to do like she did on the first trip a few years earlier.
> 
> The night:
> While I sat alone in a volunteer role amongst friends one evening a week before Christmas I received a simple text from my wife who was on night two of the bachelorette outing. The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “no that comes after the drag show”. I went home and Googled “male strippers”. Not a good idea.
> 
> This recent chapter has me hurt and confused. If you’ve read the backstory, I feel we made a contract those years ago not to do these type of things. If you are familiar with the phrase “trickle truth” you will understand my concern. She finally told me she held money in air and was “forced” to touch stripper, but this was told to me after I had many sleeplessness nights knowing the first story of “nothing happened, and we’re not going to talk about it anymore” was not true. She said her head was turned away, but a video of our daughter being teabagged up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job.
> 
> Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom? Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires? Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards? Do most women think this is just plain fun, and could a women sit in a show like that and not know that when you hold up money a male dancer is going to come to you and give you attention? I especially would like comments if you are “religious”. Is there something I should do? I am willing to be more spontaneous and fun but it seems she wants something different than me. She has apologized, but I feel a deep divide now that I need help healing from your comments.


She is definitely hiding hidden desires. She is gonna get burned, and you along because of it.

If she was truly right with the Lord, she would have opted out of that part. Next time buddy has a party that includes strip club, I would tell her she has no say in you participating. I would not go but would not be home for the night.


----------



## Divinely Favored

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think there is some bad some good here. The bad is you had a boundary that she side stepped at your daughters bachelorette weekend. The good is she told you they were going before they went so I don't see this as a really horrible secretive betrayal.
> 
> Strip clubs are generally goofy cheesy places in my experience. I have been to a number with my wife and the entertainment is usually the drunken shenanigans of the audience more than the strippers themselves.
> 
> Yes people change, in her twenties my wife would have said she wouldn't be caught dead in a strip club. Late 30s early 40s she has found them entertaining and even got herself a few lap dances. We went to a place in Vegas that was a huge and had a smaller club within the complex with male dancers. They guys were mostly attractive and all but it was fairly cheesy and most of the women were mostly laughing about the whole thing. Putting a bill in a strippers G-string is far from a sexy or sexual thing in actual reality. It's usually all a big goof, the only audience members who seemed actually into the dancers in a sexual way were the gay men. Think of it like a comedy show where the comedians have very little clothing that is usually the reality in my experience. It's not like a porno where the strippers are going around getting BJs from the audience. I seriously doubt this is an activity your wife cares to participate in on a regular basis.
> 
> On the religious point, as a k-12 Catholic educated person, it's covered, you go to confession say a few Hail Mary's and all is good.
> 
> Now whens the bachelor party?


Oh well, rape and murder...just say a few Hail Marys and I'm GTG to do it again next weekend! 

Her attitude is not repentance..no way no how!


----------



## Divinely Favored

Benbutton said:


> Here's the thing, it's not so much the strip club but rather her violating her own rule (or boundary). There is one way to cure a hypocrite... time for you and some buddies to hit a strip club and have a lap dance or two.


At least make her believe you did.


----------



## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh don't start making this your own fault. Honestly it probably makes her feel young and hip to hang around with her daughter and her daughter's friends and that's probably all it's really about. It's honestly kind of a cliche.


More like his wife is a cliche!


----------



## Talker67

Evinrude58 said:


> It’s a real shame that OP has lived his life one way according to his wife’s demands of all this piety, and then she not only encourages, but participated in their wild bachelorette parties that most non-Christians wouldn’t even do. And his wife participates to the extent of “ “touching” Strippers and following men into restrooms—— then pretending she was pressure or coerced by peer pressure (her daughters????)………
> 
> I’d wager OP has been told a very tame story of the extent of his wife’s lurid activities at these parties, and that his wife and daughters are laughing about it behind his back.
> Nobody that does this kind of stuff and yet portrays themselves as churchgoing Christians wants their squeaky clean image tarnished. She’s lying.
> I really don’t even know how OP should handle this. He’s been betrayed by his wife and his own daughters. Really a sad situation.
> I’m very sorry OP. This is beyond my understanding.


his wife got laid. its that simple. i wonder if the daughters took video of it?


----------



## ccpowerslave

Sorry when the nuts come out and are heading for the face you should be punching out and putting a stop to it.

If I saw my fiancé did that at her bachelorette party I would not go through with the wedding.

Mom is there and they have this going on anyway, I just can’t fathom it with a real “true believer” church lady mom.


----------



## Talker67

i just dawned on me: what an excellent way to get some without raising suspiscion!

"honey, i am going down to the church for some serious praying. don't wait up for me....and NO WATCHING PORN while i am out!"


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Hell no.

When she made the decision to not call in and check with you before going to the club, that was a major breakdown in your relationship and she did it on purpose.
This TT crap needs to stop and that won't happen until there's a reason (i.e. consequences for keeping it up).
Doesn't she think this is adultery? Lusting after another man (men)? Seems like that would be obvious to a pious woman.
Rugsweep this and wait for the next time or deal with this now. Trust your gut.

And what kind of priest wouldn't tell her to come clean with her husband and fix the marriage. Does this happen? Not in my experience but I'm not Catholic.

Best of luck to you OP

Edit: I made the assumption that "confession" = Catholic, apologies if that's not the case.


----------



## 1Adam12

Young at Heart said:


> Dear 1 Adam 12;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I few thoughts. I am an older man. 50+year sacramental marriage, so I am not really the demographic you are looking for.
> 
> However, You have been married for 36 years, raised three well adjusted adult independent daughters and your wife has done two questionable things and both in the presence of your daughters? I feel that you are way over thinking what probably happened with your wife. She was chaperoned by her daughters! Based on what I call tea-bagging, your younger daughter was probably not the best chaperone. However, if this was the worst that happened, and you really don't know exactly what happened, I would cut her some slack.
> 
> When my kids were growing up, my wife and I would say that one teenager has about half a brain, when you put 3 or more hormonal teenagers in the same room they have no brain. There is this thing were groups can get in real trouble where just the people individually would act better. I would bet in both situations your daughters were being peer pressured into doing things by the other women that they were not completely comfortable with. Put yourself in your wife's shoes for a moment. Your daughter is doing something a little to a lot naughty to skanky and your daughter looks over at her mom? Most daughters would be mortified at that point. I can see in the first situation where your wife might go into a restroom and made sure she saw little to nothing, because everyone else was taking turns and her turn came up.
> 
> I have witnessed at various places over the years a few pre-wedding "hen parties" and the alcohol fueled grossness can get way out of hand. But still most of the women seem to be laughing and having a great time with each other.
> 
> But the purpose of these things is to celebrate a life milestone and to bond with close friends. You don't go to these kinds of parties to be with strangers. At both of them your daughters were transitioning from young adults under their parent's wings into starting their own family's. I can see why you wife, your daughters mom, wanted to be part of that transitional celebration and bonding ceremony.
> 
> I was at a dinner party at a private club with my wife that had an unusual women's bathroom with floor to ceiling glass windows stalls on about the 75th floor. After the first wife came back from the bathroom, all the women had to go see and then they dragged their husbands into the bathroom, just to look while made sure no other woman came into the bathroom. I have also been at some strange bars, where there was a glass window above the urinal where you could look out into the bar and you weren't sure if it was a one-way mirror or not allowing people to see your upper body.
> 
> Now let's go all Catholic on you. You should understand the concept of free will and temptation. You should also understand the power of confession and absolution. If she is a good Catholic, I would wager she confessed what she did. Assuming she did something she shouldn't have, if God can forgive her, why can't you? Do you really have higher standards of behavior than God?
> 
> You asked what you should do. My advise it tell your wife and you apologize to her for how you acted and are ashamed of what you thought she might be capable of doing. Tell her that you know she is a good woman, a good wife, and a good mother to your daughters. Tell her you got crazy jealous because you love her so much and your marriage to her is so special and important to you. Then really, really forgive her and stop thinking about it. Move on. And by all means stop thinking about New Orleans that was decades ago.
> 
> Read some of the other posts on TAM. Count your blessings. Your glass is more than half full, if this is the only problem in your marriage, your glass is full almost to the brim.
> 
> After you hanr readjusted your perspective, apologized to her and forgiven her. The talk to her. Discuss with her that the two of you are now transitioning your marriage into an empty nest phase. Tell her you want to find out what she is thinking, what her dreams are, what adventures she wants to have. Tell her that what happened shook you up and made your realize how important she is. As such, you want to start spending more time talking to her, bonding with her, and sharing you goals for the rest of your life together. Don't smoother her or be too clingy. Make sure you each have separate lives, but use this as an opportunity to bond.
> 
> Go get a beer and watch some football. Good luck


Excellent advice full of wisdom. Thanks


----------



## Diana7

1Adam12 said:


> Excellent advice full of wisdom. Thanks


Please please don't take the blame for something you didn't do. 
She acted terribly but you are supposed to appologise????
Mad advise.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> Please please don't take the blame for something you didn't do.
> She acted terribly but you are supposed to appologise????
> Mad advise.


I agree. I don't think this is something to divorce over, but this is a serious issues.

@1Adam12 You never answered this. Does your wife have any guilt or remorse? What has been her response to you?


----------



## Benbutton

Diana7 said:


> I honestly don't think that stooping to her level is the answer.


Eh, to each their own.


----------



## CatholicDad

I don’t know brother. I’d like to think I could forgive my wife for something like this. My wife has an almost insane desire to be close to her kids. If they were partying and drinking too much I could see her wanting to participate for that reason and then maybe trying not to be the old lady of the group. Clearly women aren’t like men with their eyes either so I wouldn’t think she’d exactly be lusting over the young bodies to the extent I would around fit undressed women.

So maybe forgive her, move on and remember next time she’s out drinking- you be out there drinking too with her to keep the creeps away.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Look at some of the stories where the hussy bride sucks off stripper with MiL cheering her on. Many women will dismiss their so called moral standards so they can feel accepted by the crowd cheering them on. Add alcohol and nude or almost there buff men and it does not bode well for a marriage. 

What does the groom say about your daughters behavior...I would tell him. Be interesting to see the photos/videos of the nights.


----------



## CatholicDad

Yeah, too much booze and naked people around could cause even the most fervent Christian to sin.

Now a saint is someone who knows their limits and would NOT subject themselves to temptation like that. Ok, so she’s not a saint. Nor is she the Blessed Mother. So everyone wants to stone her now .. yeah the one of you without sin should throw the first stone 😉.


----------



## 1Adam12

Her response has been firm that she was sorry for going, but never did she think not to go since the group was going. So no remorse as she knows it was wrong but had to be there as part of the party and she had no idea what was going to be happening as she kept her head down.


----------



## Evinrude58

1Adam12 said:


> Excellent advice full of wisdom. Thanks


No offense, but you are hearing what you want to hear, seeing what you want to see, and your state of mind is full rug sweep mode. 
If you apologize to your wife after what she’s done regarding this “wisdom” you read, you are setting yourself up for disaster.
I personally don’t know if your wife has sex with a stripper, or how far the touching went, but for you to ignore a PATTERN of behavior your wife is showing you, the clear desire to be involved in debauchery she’s shown you, and her hypocritical treatment of you and the rules she EXPECTS YOU to follow but fails to herself, you are setting yourself up to be cheated in when an interested make gives her attention.
I don’t know why you aren’t horrified that your wife went to a bachelorette party for her own daughter in which strippers were brought in and you knew there was “teabagging” done to your daughter by a stripper, but I can say that your dismissive attitude will likely be the downfall of your marriage.
Either way, different strokes for different folks.
If my daughter had a bachelorette party with strippers and allowed herself to be teabagged, I’d be hugely disappointed and would find it hard not to tell the young man she was intending to marry. That’s just wrong on so many levels.
Good luck, I won’t bother your thread further.


----------



## 1Adam12

Exactly!


----------



## Evinrude58

CatholicDad said:


> Yeah, too much booze and naked people around could cause even the most fervent Christian to sin.
> 
> Now a saint is someone who knows their limits and would NOT subject themselves to temptation like that. Ok, so she’s not a saint. Nor is she the Blessed Mother. So everyone wants to stone her now .. yeah the one of you without sin should throw the first stone 😉.


This isn’t her first bachelorette rodeo CD. 
All most here are suggesting is not to rug sweep. Not stoning her, not necessarily divorcing her. But there should be some harsh consequences. Behavior like this doesn’t get changed unless some trauma takes place. She should be wondering if her husband is going to divorce her. He’s ignoring bad behavior and therefore enabling it to continue.


----------



## drencrom

Since I will forever remain single with no commitments, this isn't an issue for me now.

But when I was all about love and faithfulness, never would I be with a woman that felt the need to go to strip clubs. I find it downright disrespectful. If they feel the need to do that, they don't need to be in a committed relationship.

Also, strip clubs and certain activities at bachelor/bachelorette parties....if they feel the need for one more flings or enjoyment of the opposite sex, then IMO they will not make faithful partners.

OP, your wife is wrong and I'd be more than pissed if I were you.


----------



## CatholicDad

Evinrude58 said:


> This isn’t her first bachelorette rodeo CD.
> All most here are suggesting is not to rug sweep. Not stoning her, not necessarily divorcing her. But there should be some harsh consequences. Behavior like this doesn’t get changed unless some trauma takes place. She should be wondering if her husband is going to divorce her. He’s ignoring bad behavior and therefore enabling it to continue.


Yeah- you’re right. I figured he’s already chewed her out endlessly- but maybe not. I’d a hit the roof myself and probably fought with my wife all night and been super mean… I’ve got a hot temper so guess I thought he’d probably already been through all that.


----------



## Talker67

CatholicDad said:


> I don’t know brother. I’d like to think I could forgive my wife for something like this. My wife has an almost insane desire to be close to her kids. If they were partying and drinking too much I could see her wanting to participate for that reason and then maybe trying not to be the old lady of the group. Clearly women aren’t like men with their eyes either so I wouldn’t think she’d exactly be lusting over the young bodies to the extent I would around fit undressed women.
> 
> So maybe forgive her, move on and remember next time she’s out drinking- you be out there drinking too with her to keep the creeps away.


My wife has an almost insane need to ORGANIZE parties. She would be certainly torn here...on one hand the free willey aspect would have her running away, but the organizing a party would be calling her back....kind of like the mafia...


----------



## Talker67

drencrom said:


> Since I will forever remain single with no commitments, this isn't an issue for me now.
> 
> But when I was all about love and faithfulness, never would I be with a woman that felt the need to go to strip clubs. I find it downright disrespectful. If they feel the need to do that, they don't need to be in a committed relationship.
> 
> Also, strip clubs and certain activities at bachelor/bachelorette parties....if they feel the need for one more flings or enjoyment of the opposite sex, then IMO they will not make faithful partners.
> 
> OP, your wife is wrong and I'd be more than pissed if I were you.


What happened to the good ole sexist ways, where the GUYS would have a wild stag party with strippers or worse, but the GALS would open some chardonay, listen to boy bands and play twister?


----------



## Talker67

inside the religious mind at the strip club?


----------



## ConanHub

Talker67 said:


> i just dawned on me: what an excellent way to get some without raising suspiscion!
> 
> "honey, i am going down to the church for some serious praying. don't wait up for me....and NO WATCHING PORN while i am out!"


Ok. This is funny!


----------



## ConanHub

1Adam12 said:


> Excellent advice full of wisdom. Thanks


Actually, I thought it about the most destructive advice that could be given here. He is dead wrong about this mate.

I now know why your wife did it. Now you're going to apologize for it!😆

I now know why your daughters think they can treat their husbands this way.

Your wife had another man's meat in her hands and you are going to say you're sorry.

You are such a precious little boy. Hope mummy takes care of you.

Hahahaha! Enjoy.


----------



## 1Adam12

CatholicDad said:


> I don’t know brother. I’d like to think I could forgive my wife for something like this. My wife has an almost insane desire to be close to her kids. If they were partying and drinking too much I could see her wanting to participate for that reason and then maybe trying not to be the old lady of the group. Clearly women aren’t like men with their eyes either so I wouldn’t think she’d exactly be lusting over the young bodies to the extent I would around fit undressed women.
> 
> So maybe forgive her, move on and remember next time she’s out drinking- you be out there drinking too with her to keep the creeps away.


That has been established now.


----------



## Diana7

CatholicDad said:


> Yeah, too much booze and naked people around could cause even the most fervent Christian to sin.
> 
> Now a saint is someone who knows their limits and would NOT subject themselves to temptation like that. Ok, so she’s not a saint. Nor is she the Blessed Mother. So everyone wants to stone her now .. yeah the one of you without sin should throw the first stone 😉.


Isn't that why it's best to avoid situations like this where there will be lots of drinking and strippers? 
Finding out what is going to happen before you go is sensible.


----------



## Diana7

Talker67 said:


> My wife has an almost insane need to ORGANIZE parties. She would be certainly torn here...on one hand the free willey aspect would have her running away, but the organizing a party would be calling her back....kind of like the mafia...


Sounds like she would organise a party that wasn't going to include strippers. There are many fun things to do without booze and naked people around.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> Isn't that why it's best to avoid situations like this where there will be lots of drinking and strippers?
> Finding out what is going to happen before you go is sensible.


And grown ass adults are supposed to be those putting the breaks on youthful idiocy.

My boys know having a few beers on a night out isn't a problem but if strippers were involved, they would literally change their plans at a moments notice if they thought Conan was going to be there. They know I actually practice what I preach.

There would still be a family meeting if I even heard about plans like that.


----------



## Diana7

1Adam12 said:


> Her response has been firm that she was sorry for going, but never did she think not to go since the group was going. So no remorse as she knows it was wrong but had to be there as part of the party and she had no idea what was going to be happening as she kept her head down.


She didn't have to go though. Anyone could use that as an excuse to do anything. 'Well I had to because everyone else was'. 
She could have made sure she know before she went what was going to happen and once she knew there was going to be a stripper (after she went to church!) she could have bowed out. Gone back to the hotel room. 

Still it's easier for you to believe what she says and even agree with someone who says that YOU should appologise. Bizarre.


----------



## oldshirt

@1Adam12 (I know where you got your name from BTW) ultimately you will need to decide if this is acceptable to you or not and you will have to decide what you will or won't do about it. 

People are talking about repurcussions and consequences etc. I'm not sure what kind of punishment or consequences one can shell out to a 60ish year old adult woman partaking in a legal activity with consenting adults regardless of how tasteless it may have been. 

Are you going to scold her? send her to her room without supper? Are you going to give her the silent treatment? Are you going to sleep on the couch? If you tell her to sleep on the couch or go to the spare bedroom, what if she says no? 

I think it kind of comes down to is this the person you want to continue in a marriage with or not? Are these two events over the last 39 years cause for you to exit the marriage? For some it might be. Is this a straw that broke the camel's back moment? 

You may never get the full story of what really happened. Did she go out to the parking lot or into the restroom to have full-on sex with him? Did he rub his junk up against her boobies for 3 seconds and then moved on to the next chick at the table? Only you can decide what you can live with and what you can't. 

If this completely destroys your trust and faith and honor in her, do what you gotta do. Don't shelter her or protect her from your loss of esteem in her. Stand up for your feelings on the matter and be honest with her. Let her experience your loss of respect and esteem. 

If you don't want to be around her, leave,,,, or ask her to move out. If you don't want to continue to support and provision someone that engages in that kind of behaviour, then don't. If you divorce, the court will mandate division of assets and such and if she hasn't worked decades and can't support herself, there will be court ordered spousal support but you don't need to offer her one cent more and if she gets a flat in the middle of the night in the pouring rain, she can call AAA. 

You can make her see your back as you fade away over the horizon from her life, but it's not like you can spank her or ground her for the next month. You can only decide what YOU will do in light of this behaviour.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> And grown ass adults are supposed to be those putting the breaks on youthful idiocy.
> 
> My boys know having a few beers on a night out isn't a problem but if strippers were involved, they would literally change their plans at a moments notice if they thought Conan was going to be there. They know I actually practice what I preach.
> 
> There would still be a family meeting if I even heard about plans like that.


Absolutely. Thankfully my older daughter didn't have any of this nonsense at her hen do. It was stuff like go cart riding. Great fun.
Son and his mates went on a sporty adventure weekend with stuff like quad bike racing. They had a blast.😊


----------



## 346745

talk to your wife about this and how it makes you feel. Keep in mind that nobody is perfect.


----------



## drencrom

Here is the part I think those that are saying he is overreacting or even worse, apologize to his wife, are missing: *my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men* 

No, this is HIGHLY unacceptable. Why follow them into the bathroom? Because it's behind closed doors that's why.

Whether anyone thinks going to see strippers is ok or not, you observe from afar or out in eye of everyone...to keep everyone honest. Follow the men into the men's room? Really? Anyone that doesn't think that's crossing the line, I just don't know what to say but no wonder marriages don't last.

I'd have been mildly upset back in the day if someone I was with went to a strip club because that's where all their friends were going. But if I found out they went with the men in private to the bathroom, it'd be over. I'm not suggesting that here as he has been married for years. 

But he definitely has the right to be pissed. Assuming his wife loves him and adores him, you think she'd take kindly to him following a female stripper into a bathroom so nobody else could see what was going on?

Maybe that's what OP needs to do. Sounds to me like his wife got hers....maybe he needs to get his.


----------



## 346745

drencrom said:


> Here is the part I think those that are saying he is overreacting or even worse, apologize to his wife, are missing: *my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men*
> 
> No, this is HIGHLY unacceptable. Why follow them into the bathroom? Because it's behind closed doors that's why.
> 
> Whether anyone thinks going to see strippers is ok or not, you observe from afar or out in eye of everyone...to keep everyone honest. Follow the men into the men's room? Really? Anyone that doesn't think that's crossing the line, I just don't know what to say but no wonder marriages don't last.
> 
> I'd have been mildly upset back in the day if someone I was with went to a strip club because that's where all their friends were going. But if I found out they went with the men in private to the bathroom, it'd be over. I'm not suggesting that here as he has been married for years.
> 
> But he definitely has the right to be pissed. Assuming his wife loves him and adores him, you think she'd take kindly to him following a female stripper into a bathroom so nobody else could see what was going on?
> 
> Maybe that's what OP needs to do. Sounds to me like his wife got hers....maybe he needs to get his.


good catch on the bathroom photos. Yes, that's way out there. I mean, what else happened in the bathroom? I'd be okay with wife at a male strip club. She's been to one long before we were a couple. Said it didn't do much for her. I would not be okay with her following him into a bathroom.


----------



## drencrom

Talker67 said:


> i would take it as a positive thing: that your wife in her advance years is getting hornier and kinkier! She is willing to try out stuff that twenty years ago would have been taboo.
> 
> sounds like you need to up your game in the bedroom


Soooo he should be happy that his wife went into the bathroom with other men for a little private fun?


----------



## drencrom

ConanHub said:


> Actually, I thought it about the most destructive advice that could be given here. He is dead wrong about this mate.
> 
> I now know why your wife did it. Now you're going to apologize for it!😆
> 
> I now know why your daughters think they can treat their husbands this way.
> 
> Your wife had another man's meat in her hands and you are going to say you're sorry.
> 
> You are such a precious little boy. Hope mummy takes care of you.
> 
> Hahahaha! Enjoy.


Spot on, but the last 2 paragraphs aren't appropriate to someone needing advice.


----------



## drencrom

Longtime Hubby said:


> good catch on the bathroom photos. Yes, that's way out there. I mean, what else happened in the bathroom? I'd be okay with wife at a male strip club. She's been to one long before we were a couple. Said it didn't do much for her. I would not be okay with her following him into a bathroom.


And that's what SHE says....it was to take photos. She couldn't have taken them outside the men's bathroom?

I'm guessing more went on in the men's bathroom than just pictures.


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> @1Adam12 (I know where you got your name from BTW) ultimately you will need to decide if this is acceptable to you or not and you will have to decide what you will or won't do about it.
> 
> People are talking about repurcussions and consequences etc. I'm not sure what kind of punishment or consequences one can shell out to a 60ish year old adult woman partaking in a legal activity with consenting adults regardless of how tasteless it may have been.


Simple, she isn't to do it again. And that's not saying he should lay down that law, he should suggest it shouldn't be and she should want to agree after doing something as bad as going into a bathroom with another man.

Divorce? No. But if she doesn't see how this is wrong and won't respect him enough to never do it again, then maybe it is an option.


----------



## drencrom

Longtime Hubby said:


> talk to your wife about this and how it makes you feel. Keep in mind that nobody is perfect.


And make sure she knows that following a naked man into a bathroom so they can close the door and be private doesn't bode well for her faithfulness, much less respect for her husband.

Because this is not just a simple of matter of her going to a strip club for a party. More went on. Nobody is perfect, but following a stripper in the bathroom to close the door so nobody else can see what is going on? She could have taken her pictures in full view of everyone outside the bathroom. She didn't, and there is a reason why.


----------



## 346745

drencrom said:


> And make sure she knows that following a naked man into a bathroom so they can close the door and be private doesn't bode well for her faithfulness, much less respect for her husband.
> 
> Because this is not just a simple of matter of her going to a strip club for a party. More went on. Nobody is perfect, but following a stripper in the bathroom to close the door so nobody else can see what is going on? She could have taken her pictures in full view of everyone outside the bathroom. She didn't, and there is a reason why.


yes, of course, her following him was not a good idea. She's got some splainin to do


----------



## ConanHub

drencrom said:


> Spot on, but the last 2 paragraphs aren't appropriate to someone needing advice.


Very appropriate for this poster.


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> Simple, she isn't to do it again. And that's not saying he should lay down that law, he should suggest it shouldn't be and she should want to agree after doing something as bad as going into a bathroom with another man.
> 
> Divorce? No. But if she doesn't see how this is wrong and won't respect him enough to never do it again, then maybe it is an option.


But hasn't he already said not to touch another man? He got upset and scolded her after the first bachelorette bathroom incident and yet during the next daughter's bachelorette party she felt up the dude and stuffed money in his g-string barely covering his junk. 

Let's remember - THERE IS A 3RD DAUGHTER. What's going to happen at her party now that Mom has this partying thing down? 

Some people are telling him this is a divorcable offense. Some are telling him it is not. 

But only HE gets to decide what is acceptable and what is not. Maybe this is too much for him. Maybe it isn't. My point is that it is not up to us or to society what is or what is not an acceptable level of sexual tom foolery for a married 60 year old woman. It is what is tolerable to him.


----------



## drencrom

ConanHub said:


> Very appropriate for this poster.


To make fun of him? I don't care what anyone thinks of him contemplating even the worst advice. His wife went private into a bathroom with a male stripper. He doesn't need to be made fun of.


----------



## drencrom

Longtime Hubby said:


> yes, of course, her following him was not a good idea. She's got some splainin to do


"All I did was take pictures"

Ok, he needs to get these pictures off her phone and no, not after she reviews them first to delete incriminating ones.

@1Adam12, if you have access to her phone, take a look at these pictures before she deletes them. And if she deleted them, see if she didn't remove them from the deleted photos folder.

There is NO REASON to follow him into the bathroom. She could take her pictures outside in the public area of the club.

I'm betting at least a hand job happened.


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> And make sure she knows that following a naked man into a bathroom so they can close the door and be private doesn't bode well for her faithfulness, much less respect for her husband.
> 
> Because this is not just a simple of matter of her going to a strip club for a party. More went on. Nobody is perfect, but following a stripper in the bathroom to close the door so nobody else can see what is going on? She could have taken her pictures in full view of everyone outside the bathroom. She didn't, and there is a reason why.


Just for clarification, I don't believe the bathroom incident involved a stripper or a nekkid guy. 

That sounds like they were just at some club and she followed some random normal guy into the jon. Not that that isn't still kind of sophomoric and inappropriate, but he did not indicate the first incident involved strippers.


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> I'm betting at least a hand job happened.


Let's not get carried away here. 

See my post above, he did not say the bathroom incident was a stripper. 

And we also need to remember that this is 60something year old woman acting like a fool with a bunch of drunken 20somethings following a random, normal dude into the can. 

He probably said "WTF!!" when she barged in and either rolled his eyes and shook his head and finished his business or zipped up and hightailed it out of there.


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> Just for clarification, I don't believe the bathroom incident involved a stripper or a nekkid guy.
> 
> That sounds like they were just at some club and she followed some random normal guy into the jon.


That's even worse. It's one thing to get all hot and bothered by a stripper in the public area of the club, but following other men into the bathroom? I'm guessing more than just pictures happened. She has no sense of decency or respect for her husband.


----------



## Al_Bundy

drencrom said:


> That's even worse. It's one thing to get all hot and bothered by a stripper in the public area of the club, but following other men into the bathroom? I'm guessing more than just pictures happened. She has no sense of decency or respect for her husband.


Don't forget taking a video of her daughter being teabagged. Which of course never leads to anything else. 😅


----------



## manwithnoname

oldshirt said:


> @1Adam12 (I know where you got your name from BTW)


1Adam12, 1Adam12 : Wife disrespecting husband in progress.


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> Let's not get carried away here.


Not getting carried away. There is NO reason to follow men into the men's bathroom especially in an environment of arousal in the first place. To take pictures? Please.



> See my post above, he did not say the bathroom incident was a stripper.


 I'm betting it was, and even if not, that's actually kind of worse. It's "look but don't touch", and she didn't follow them in there to say, "hi, can I take a picture??" Something is not right, I can almost guarantee you that.



> And we also need to remember that this is 60something year old woman acting like a fool with a bunch of drunken 20somethings following a random, normal dude into the can.


The only regular guys that go to these things, unless there are some **** bf's and husbands going along, are guys wanting to get an easy lay. And if she was smart, she'd know this and followed them anyway? Testing the waters maybe?

@1Adam12, we need some clarification here. Have you seen these pictures? And not that it matters really, were they strippers she went into the bathroom with or regular guys?


----------



## Tdbo

Diana7 said:


> She didn't have to go though. Anyone could use that as an excuse to do anything. 'Well I had to because everyone else was'.
> She could have made sure she know before she went what was going to happen and once she knew there was going to be a stripper (after she went to church!) she could have bowed out. Gone back to the hotel room.
> 
> Still it's easier for you to believe what she says and even agree with someone who says that YOU should appologise. Bizarre.


The bottom line is that she probably has been conditioned to believe that it is easier to DO WHAT THE HELL SHE WANTS, then throw out an apology after the fact.
It worked the first time, so why wouldn't it work the second?
My guess is that she utilizes this strategy in many more settings beyond Hen Parties.


----------



## Tdbo

manwithnoname said:


> 1Adam12, 1Adam12 : Wife disrespecting husband in progress.


Malloy needs to get out the billy club, and pound it on the table until the wife understands the gravity of the situation.


----------



## drencrom

Tdbo said:


> The bottom line is that she probably has been conditioned to believe that it is easier to DO WHAT THE HELL SHE WANTS, then throw out an apology after the fact.
> It worked the first time, so why wouldn't it work the second?
> My guess is that she utilizes this strategy in many more settings beyond Hen Parties.


My favorite, aside from following men into the bathroom, was that she was "forced" to stick money in the guy's g-strings. That was a good one.


----------



## 346745

drencrom said:


> My favorite, aside from following men into the bathroom, was that she was "forced" to stick money in the guy's g-strings. That was a good one.


“That’s it, sister, put some cash in or you’re outta here!”


----------



## oldshirt

And also, while this behavior may not be appropriate in normal daily life, this is all part and parcel of a bachelorette party and if this is all that happened,, it was actually quite tame. 

Did any of the strippers and the OP's wife have any kind of actual sexual contact? Probably not. 

These guys have hot, 20something year old chicks waiting for them in the parking lot and lined up waiting their turn back at their hotel room. Unless the OP's wife is Christie Brinkley or one of them has some kind of 60 year old woman fetish, my money is on he graciously took money, let her feel his abz a few moments, maybe ground his junk into her boobs for a second or two and then moved on to the next chick with a wad of dollar bills in her hand. 

If the OP's wife was determined to get some of that, she would have had to have waited in line behind a bunch of hot, hard-bodied 20-somethings and hoped he still had a drop left in him before her got to her. 

Unless there is something that has been completely covered up behind an iron curtain of secrecy amongst the girls, this is not garden variety cheating or an affair or extramarital sex in the classic sense. 

It is boarish and obnoxious and disrespectful behavior and an element of dishonesty and trickle truth. It's on him to determine whether it is something he can accept or not. It's not like he found out the 17 went to the kegger out in the country when someone's parents were out of town so he takes her car keys away for a month.


----------



## drencrom

1Adam12 said:


> There was no strippers on the first bachelorette outing years ago. That was just men in general going in the restroom.


Ok, missed this, but it doesn't change my opinion.

What were the pictures of? How long was she in there with them? If she slipped in and took a quick pick then darted the hell out of there, ok, perhaps she was put up to it.

But still, something is fishy. She tells you she was "forced" to put $ in guy's gstrings? Right. Sorry, that was a lie to make you feel better. And the fact that she laid down the law with you years ago that there were to be no racy club hopping, and now she gets all upset when not invited to a bachelorette party the second time after your concerns with the first, she was eager and wanted to go.

Whether anything happened or not, I wouldn't be ok with it and understand your feelings.

Then again, maybe you need to go out and get some mams in your face. Fair is fair.


----------



## drencrom

1Adam12 said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head on the way I feel about social morals. Too bad the SIL did not want a bachelor party, and as the FIL, I wouldn’t have been invited anyway. I truly have no desire to see female strippers. I find them sad and broken. Not saying I don’t mind watching sexually explicit R movie scenes with my wife. It’s different if it’s done together.


Here is my bottom line advice given that you'll never know exactly what happened, yet she decided it wasn't ok for you or her to go to racy places until it was for her only.

Divorce her? No, not unless you have proof she rim jobbed some guy in the bathroom.

Give her the silent treatment? hmmm...maybe, but not for long as you will need to forgive her at some point.

Tell her this is to NEVER happen again and she is not to go to those kinds of places ever again? Yes, especially since it was her idea to lay down the law for you both years ago.

It's your decision, just don't be spineless. If she thinks you are being unreasonable, remind her of her own rules.


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> Not getting carried away. There is NO reason to follow men into the men's bathroom especially in an environment of arousal in the first place. To take pictures? Please.
> 
> I'm betting it was, and even if not, that's actually kind of worse. It's "look but don't touch", and she didn't follow them in there to say, "hi, can I take a picture??" Something is not right, I can almost guarantee you that.
> 
> 
> 
> The only regular guys that go to these things, unless there are some **** bf's and husbands going along, are guys wanting to get an easy lay. And if she was smart, she'd know this and followed them anyway? Testing the waters maybe?
> 
> @1Adam12, we need some clarification here. Have you seen these pictures? And not that it matters really, were they strippers she went into the bathroom with or regular guys?


People do stupid and silly stuff when out on the town. I would totally believe they egged her on and she followed some poor sap that just needed to take a whizz into the jon, snapped his picture and ran out. That kinda shenanigans probably takes place thousands of times a weekend in clubs and bars across the country. 

Have some of them ended up in blowjobs or whatever in the stalls?? Yeah, probably sometimes. But most are just adults acting like 13 year olds. 

I'm not saying that this was honorable, dignified behavior of a grown woman....... but it's a big leap to say that she had a sexual encounter with some random in a club bathroom. I mean let's at least try to be somewhat realistic here. 

Did she get a little carried away and do some silly stuff that her husband didn't like the sounds of? Yeah sure. But for people to sit here and say that she had sex with some guy who happened to be taking a leak, is getting a little carried away.


----------



## Diana7

What concerns me is that she has now shown twice that she can't be trusted and nor can his daughters. She is very easily led and cares more about what a drunken group of women want than her own husband or even God who she believes in.


----------



## Young at Heart

Diana7 said:


> I understand that you are trying to smooth things over, and *sweep it all under the carpet*, but she was the one who acted badly, *no reason AT ALL for him to apologise at all, he did nothing wrong*. Its not as if he has thrown her out and handed her divorce papers.
> 
> As for your description of hen parties. you make it sound as if they are innocent. You make their daughters and his wife sound as if they were poor weak ladies who were pressured into what they did. These are women well into adulthood, one the mother of three adult children. They willingly went along to a few days of all this stuff.
> *No one forced any of them to do this. They could have done completely different things* on their hen do. as many others do, away from drink and bars and strippers. They could have said no, t*hey could have walked out*.
> Plus in the UK not many mums are invited to these dos, its usually just similar age friends. She could have asked what was going to happen and not gone.
> 
> Yes she can be forgiven, but *she went to church and then on to a stripper*, that is hardly someone who thinks what they did was wrong.


I guess we will agree to disagree, but thanks for sharing.

My comments were not to rug sweep what happened. I suggested some long heartfelt talks between them. He didn't ask how to divorce her indicate in what I read that he wanted a separation.

Yes, the women in his life could have acted more lady-like and thoughtfully, and not done things or walked out when questionable behavior started to happen. And this really is about their questionable behavior. I want to emphasis the word questionable. In this day and age there is a lot of behavior that shocks me. We don't really know the full details of what his wife did. We don't know the details of what his daughters regularly did with their boyfriends who became husbands, nor what the daughters regualarly discussed with their mom. He seems to be focused on the mom who had a limited exposure to sex decades before when they went to New Orleans. The woman she is now may be a much more knowledgeable woman regarding sexual practices, having been educated by tales from her daughters. He might be the one who needs to be pulled into the 21st Century by his wife (or not).

I remember either reading or hearing an interview of a young woman who said that her boyfriend was pressuring her fsex and she finally got up the courage to tell him no. She was praise for her taking a stand and saying no to being talked into sex (her definition). Then she said, that yes, she had refused to have sex with him, but gave him a blow job. In her mind sex did not include the same things I view sex to entail. I will never forget President B. J. Clinton, parsing words to explain what sex is and is not. In this day and age, some people have some, what I judge to be, highly unusual definitions of sex and what is or is not "cheating." I have no idea what the wife's definitions are, nor if she and her husband have evolved since early in their marriage on their boundaries.
In my limited experience and reading, I have been impressed with MW Davis approach to Divorce Busting. As such, I feel that situations where there is a "pure victim" and everything is the fault of the evil marriage partner are rare. Were there things* he *could have done differently? After the eldest daughter's hen party, he could have sat down with his wife and established some iron clad boundaries on each of their behaviors. Rather than just telling her on the way out the door don't do it again, could he have really sat down with her and re-discussed the boundaries they had agreed to? Could he have asked his other daughter to make sure her mom doesn't get into trouble? So, was he guilty of causing this? Not at all. Could he have done things that might have prevented some of his anguish? Yes. Is he to blame? No.

Ultimately, if the marriage is to continue he needs to forgive her and they need to reach closure. His anguish over this has been communicated to his wife, who knows that he is upset with her. How best to get a forgiveness conversation going than to apologize for what you could have done differently and for what triggered you own anger toward you spouse? After that, they should really have some conversations on boundaries and future things they can do together. 

As to the "church to stripper" thing. Well it was close to Christmas, so maybe her mind was trying to get in some Christmas prayer and not connected to the strippers. It amazes me how some people can compartmentalize parts of their life, especially around sex. Maybe she is that kind of person who multi-tasks everything and once she is through with church, all her thoughts on religion, morality, etc. are placed in a box and put on a shelf.

Again, thanks for your comments. I hope the OP can let go of what happened to save a long term marriage. It sounded like he wasn't asking about divorce or separation, but that is his choice if it is what he wants.


----------



## ConanHub

drencrom said:


> To make fun of him? I don't care what anyone thinks of him contemplating even the worst advice. His wife went private into a bathroom with a male stripper. He doesn't need to be made fun of.


2x4's are definitely called for here. When someone is beyond reason, like hysterical, you slap them. Words aren't always enough.


----------



## Talker67

oldshirt said:


> Let's not get carried away here.
> 
> See my post above, he did not say the bathroom incident was a stripper.
> 
> And we also need to remember that this is 60something year old woman acting like a fool with a bunch of drunken 20somethings *following a random, normal dude into the can. *
> 
> He probably said "WTF!!" when she barged in and either rolled his eyes and shook his head and finished his business or zipped up and hightailed it out of there.


everyone keeps calling this a strip club, but i think it was more like a "ladies night" where they had male strippers only.
I do not know too many "Random Dudes" who would also be there on ladies night, sauntering into the men's room! I think instead it was the male strippers.

i have heard from women who went to such things...the guys wear a very flimsy think sock thingie over his schlong, and the women dare each other to touch it, stroke it, maybe even kiss it. But you are touching the sock thing, not his actual penis


----------



## Talker67

ConanHub said:


> 2x4's are definitely called for here. *When someone is beyond reason, like hysterical, you slap them. * Words aren't always enough.


Dude, that NEVER works. they just get more unhinged!


----------



## happyhusband0005

OK i think people's imaginations are getting a little carried away here which is not helpful to the OP. @1Adam12 Did I miss something from what I have read.

1. Bachelorette party one the girls got silly and were following guys into the bathroom and trying to snap pictures.

2. Bachelorette party two, they go to a drag show and then a strip club, or the drag show was at the strip club and they stayed for a male revue show after the drag show. At this show your wife put a bill or bills in the strippers G-string, and your daughter got the typical bachelor/bachelorette lap dance in front of the crowd. Important question where was this strip club big city, small town?

Is this the basics of what transpired or did I miss something?

Both men and women often act stupid when they get drunk at bachelor or bachelorette parties. 

There is a lot of silly urban legends about what actually happens at strip clubs nowadays. If this was a higher end club in a city the stories of blowjobs and sex happening regularly is BS, It does not happen today, with the rules and security it is physically impossible in a higher end club. If this was a private party at someones house or in a hotel suite, different story. Guys like to tell stories of the stripper the easily could have banged if he wanted, in reality the stripper made he think he could and emptied his wallet because he was one of the guys my wife and I enjoyed watching and laughing at when we use to go. Will strippers go home with customers sure, either for money or the customer is hot and the stripper is horny. Most strippers are grossed out by the customers, sorry if that bursts any bubbles but reality can be tough. Frankly it sounds like it was a night the club set up for gay men primarily. Doesn't even sound like the show was "full monty" hence the leather covered sack. 

The wild assumptions that a young hot male stripper accepted a BJ or hand job from a 60+ year old women for sticking a few bucks in his jock strap is pretty silly, if the stripper was looking for action he would just start with the hottest woman in the room and work his way around until he found the best deal. 

In the words of Chris Rock "There is no sex in the champagne room". It's not the 1970s or 80s. 

All this situation requires is a real discussion about what is and is not acceptable, and a strong message that if agreed upon boundaries are not respected there will be consequences. 

Your wife was not out doing this because she is bored with you or any of that. Just like most married guys who go to strip clubs with their buddies are not there because they're no longer attracted to their wives and are hoping to hook up with a stripper, strippers wished all guys were there for that because they would make way more money.


----------



## 346745

Talker67 said:


> everyone keeps calling this a strip club, but i think it was more like a "ladies night" where they had male strippers only.
> I do not know too many "Random Dudes" who would also be there on ladies night, sauntering into the men's room! I think instead it was the male strippers.


“Oh, yes, it’s Ladies Night, ooo Whatta night” - Kool and the Gang


----------



## happyhusband0005

Talker67 said:


> everyone keeps calling this a strip club, but i think it was more like a "ladies night" where they had male strippers only.
> I do not know too many "Random Dudes" who would also be there on ladies night, sauntering into the men's room! I think instead it was the male strippers.
> 
> i have heard from women who went to such things...the guys wear a very flimsy think sock thingie over his schlong, and the women dare each other to touch it, stroke it, maybe even kiss it. But you are touching the sock thing, not his actual penis


Sounds like party one was the "Random Dudes" at a bar, the second party was at the strip club on a gay men/ladies night>.


----------



## oldshirt

Talker67 said:


> everyone keeps calling this a strip club, but i think it was more like a "ladies night" where they had male strippers only.
> I do not know too many "Random Dudes" who would also be there on ladies night, sauntering into the men's room! I think instead it was the male strippers.
> 
> i have heard from women who went to such things...the guys wear a very flimsy think sock thingie over his schlong, and the women dare each other to touch it, stroke it, maybe even kiss it. But you are touching the sock thing, not his actual penis


I don't know where the post went but 1Adam12 said that there were no strippers at the first event. That was just a club. It wasn't a strip club or a stripper event. I was just a club,,,,, where guys do go to the bathroom LOL


----------



## oldshirt

Talker67 said:


> everyone keeps calling this a strip club, but i think it was more like a "ladies night" where they had male strippers only.
> I do not know too many "Random Dudes" who would also be there on ladies night, sauntering into the men's room! I think instead it was the male strippers.
> 
> i have heard from women who went to such things...the guys wear a very flimsy think sock thingie over his schlong, and the women dare each other to touch it, stroke it, maybe even kiss it. But you are touching the sock thing, not his actual penis





1Adam12 said:


> There was no strippers on the first bachelorette outing years ago. That was just men in general going in the restroom.


Found it. 

The first night was not stripper related. It was just a club.


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> People do stupid and silly stuff when out on the town. I would totally believe they egged her on and she followed some poor sap that just needed to take a whizz into the jon, snapped his picture and ran out. That kinda shenanigans probably takes place thousands of times a weekend in clubs and bars across the country.


I get that. But here is the problem. She does this the first time, she realizes her husband isn't comfortable with it and that should have been the last time she did anything like that especially given it was her rule in the first place to never do those types of things and kept him from going to a strip joint with friends long ago.

Then another opportunity came up to engage in the same type of behavior, this time at a strip joint. Did she say, "no, not a good idea, you all go and have fun"?

No. Just the opposite, she was upset she didn't get to go out and do it again. She didn't chalk it up to what you just said and thought, "ok, I did that and not a good idea to do it again". No...she WANTED to do it again, even knowing how he felt about it.

If it was a situation of how you just described and she didn't want to do it again, you are absolutely right and perhaps he needs to be a little more relaxed about it.

But that isn't how it played out.


----------



## Young at Heart

Evinrude58 said:


> No offense, but you are hearing what you want to hear, seeing what you want to see, and your state of mind is full rug sweep mode.
> *If you apologize to your wife after what she’s done regarding this “wisdom” you read, you are setting yourself up for disaster.*
> I personally don’t know if your wife has sex with a stripper, or how far the touching went, but for you to ignore a PATTERN of behavior your wife is showing you, the clear desire to be involved in debauchery she’s shown you, and her hypocritical treatment of you and the rules she EXPECTS YOU to follow but fails to herself, you are setting yourself up to be cheated in when an interested make gives her attention.
> I don’t know why you aren’t horrified that your wife went to a bachelorette party for her own daughter in which strippers were brought in and you knew there was “teabagging” done to your daughter by a stripper, but I can say that your dismissive attitude will likely be the downfall of your marriage.
> Either way, *different strokes for different folks.
> If my daughter had a bachelorette party with strippers and allowed herself to be teabagged,* I’d be hugely disappointed and would find it hard not to *tell the young man she was intending to marry. * That’s just wrong on so many levels.
> Good luck, I won’t bother your thread further.


A few thoughts. I agree with you that if all he did was apologize to his wife and rug sweep, he would be setting his marriage up for failure. If on the other hand he forgave her and set things up for mutual forgiveness and then discussed boundaries they both need to live by, that might not be a path to disaster.

My understanding of the act of "teabagging" is that a woman needs to be an active participant in the "teabagging" and that it is more something she does *to the guy* than he does to her, usually.

Now as to this second daughter's hen party, I think a lot of folks missed part of the original post, ".......The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “*no that comes after the drag show*”. ......" To me that sort of sounds like "drag queens" or gay men might have been the entertainment. That does not diminish the degrading nature of the behavior, but it might make it a lot less "sexually threatening" to some.

I also agree with you that there are different strokes for different folks. As to advising a daughter's intended that she may have done something morally questionable. I know you didn't say you would do it, but you said you would find it hard not to tell the young man. If he needs to be told, it should be by the young man's future wife, preferable before the marriage. If I were the father, I would probably tell the daughter she should tell her future husband what happened before the wedding. He might already know and be fine with it for whatever reason. As you say different strokes.


----------



## drencrom

happyhusband0005 said:


> Your wife was not out doing this because she is bored with you or any of that.


But after the first night out of questionable behavior, the kind of behavior and activity she decided long ago was not appropriate until it was convenient for her, she would have taken his concerns and said, "ok, that isn't happening again" nor would she want to do anything like that (attending "racy" venues that she decided long ago shouldn't happen for him as well).

But then a 2nd opportunity came up for some "racy" activity and instead of thinking to herself that it shouldn't happen again, she was actually disappointed she wasn't included initially.

So she WANTED to engage in behavior she previously laid down the law about and said was not appropriate. That and the trickle truthing.


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> I don't know where the post went but 1Adam12 said that there were no strippers at the first event. That was just a club. It wasn't a strip club or a stripper event. I was just a club,,,,, where guys do go to the bathroom LOL


yes, I found that and that is what he said.

But even so, he called her on it, so you think a 2nd trip with the kind of "racy" activity she forbid long ago for him would not interest her. Instead she was upset she wasn't initially invited to the 2nd bachelorette party. If she respected his feelings about what happened on the first one, and honored her own rules, she wouldn't have gone to the 2nd one. But she WANTED to. So now it became inconvenient for her to follow her own rules because she now wants to do these things.


----------



## oldshirt

happyhusband0005 said:


> OK i think people's imaginations are getting a little carried away here which is not helpful to the OP. @1Adam12 Did I miss something from what I have read.
> 
> 1. Bachelorette party one the girls got silly and were following guys into the bathroom and trying to snap pictures.
> 
> 2. Bachelorette party two, they go to a drag show and then a strip club, or the drag show was at the strip club and they stayed for a male revue show after the drag show. At this show your wife put a bill or bills in the strippers G-string, and your daughter got the typical bachelor/bachelorette lap dance in front of the crowd. Important question where was this strip club big city, small town?
> 
> Is this the basics of what transpired or did I miss something?
> 
> Both men and women often act stupid when they get drunk at bachelor or bachelorette parties.
> 
> There is a lot of silly urban legends about what actually happens at strip clubs nowadays. If this was a higher end club in a city the stories of blowjobs and sex happening regularly is BS, It does not happen today, with the rules and security it is physically impossible in a higher end club. If this was a private party at someones house or in a hotel suite, different story. Guys like to tell stories of the stripper the easily could have banged if he wanted, in reality the stripper made he think he could and emptied his wallet because he was one of the guys my wife and I enjoyed watching and laughing at when we use to go. Will strippers go home with customers sure, either for money or the customer is hot and the stripper is horny. Most strippers are grossed out by the customers, sorry if that bursts any bubbles but reality can be tough. Frankly it sounds like it was a night the club set up for gay men primarily. Doesn't even sound like the show was "full monty" hence the leather covered sack.
> 
> The wild assumptions that a young hot male stripper accepted a BJ or hand job from a 60+ year old women for sticking a few bucks in his jock strap is pretty silly, if the stripper was looking for action he would just start with the hottest woman in the room and work his way around until he found the best deal.
> 
> In the words of Chris Rock "There is no sex in the champagne room". It's not the 1970s or 80s.
> 
> All this situation requires is a real discussion about what is and is not acceptable, and a strong message that if agreed upon boundaries are not respected there will be consequences.
> 
> Your wife was not out doing this because she is bored with you or any of that. Just like most married guys who go to strip clubs with their buddies are not there because they're no longer attracted to their wives and are hoping to hook up with a stripper, strippers wished all guys were there for that because they would make way more money.


Yes, we all need to come back down to Earth now and deal with the actual facts of the case as they have been presented and set the porn fantasies aside for now. 

Yes, there may have been some other things that the OP is not aware of and may never know. For instance, after she stuff the bills in his g-string, she may have also given him a pat on the tush as he was moving on to the next chick. 

But let's not let our imaginations overide our common sense. We are still talking about a 60-something year old church lady out with her daughter and her daughters friends and potentially some inlaws as well. Let's set aside the bathroom blow jobs until we have some credible evidence of such. 

I'm not saying that she did or did not engage in more that what she has admitted to, I am saying lets stick with what we have actually be presented and deal with that.


----------



## drencrom

Young at Heart said:


> A few thoughts. I agree with you that if all he did was apologize to his wife and rug sweep, he would be setting his marriage up for failure. If on the other hand he forgave her and set things up for mutual forgiveness and then discussed boundaries they both need to live by, that might not be a path to disaster.


She was the one that set these boundaries long ago and is the one that now wants to break them. He shouldn't apologize at all. I'm not saying he shouldn't forgive her, but that should come from her truly not wanting to engage in these activities. Problem is, the 2nd opportunity where she wasn't initially invited, she was upset she wouldn't be going even after he made it known it was not appropriate.

IMO, he needs to say, "this should never happen again and those activities should not be engaged in by either of us", especially since those were her rules to begin with. And if she objects, then the forgiveness should be put on hold because she just disrespected him by doing that which she forbid herself long ago.


----------



## Cynthia

sokillme said:


> This one hits home for me, I have skipped so many bachelor parties out of respect for my wife, if she turned around and did that I would be lived. Go to the next one.
> 
> Yeah that is bull, and you daughters pulling her in makes it worse. They seem to have no respect for you or the marriage.
> 
> Stop being so nice. Your wife and your daughters obviously has grown comfortable and have NO FEAR. A little fear is good. The fact that you even have to write this post probably means you already WAY TOO NICE. People who are nice and accommodating get bullied, even in marriage.
> 
> Besides the whole trust thing, I would tell her much of your effort to be respectful to you seems like a waste. Then there would be many nights I would be going down to the bar to eat dinner away from home. Let your wife sit alone a home and think about what that life will be like.
> 
> If she brings it up, just brush her off. "Yeah I am going out tonight". Then go get a nice dinner and watch the game somewhere, or whatever.
> 
> After about a few weeks of that I would just state, "I am struggling with the fact that I think we have grown to have different morals." If she wants to argue just leave. No arguments, statements and no discussion. "What are you going to say? You participated in our daughter having pictures taken of some strangers genitals in her fact a few weeks before she was getting married?" Who are you? Gross." Those are the kind of cold and biting statements that should be coming out of your mouth.
> 
> Your son-in-laws are nuts by the way, they should be running away as fast as they can.


I agree with pretty much all of this She needs to have some consequences. I'm not into the idea of punishment, but I am into boundary setting. I recommend you distance yourself from her, until she understands the gravity of the situation and repents, or this will happen with your next daughter. It's important to tell her why you are giving her the cold shoulder and how upset you are with her behavior. The statements that @sokillme suggested are good. She needs to feel the weight of your disgust and disapproval of her behavior and your concern for your marriage. I would also cut off sex for a while at least. I don't say this lightly. Again, I'm not about punishment, this is about setting some appropriate boundaries and showing how upset you are. It's not about punishing her.

You might concern setting up six or so marriage counseling sessions to work through this situation. I'd go alone first, to make sure the therapist was in agreement with your concerns and was willing to help you work though it with your wife and help her understand that this has damaged your opinion of her and has damaged your marriage.

Under no circumstances should you apologize to her. It takes one person to destroy a marriage, but two to make it work.

Also, I am wondering about her following men into the restroom. What happened in there? If my husband was in the restroom and a women tried to take his picture, it would not go well for her. He would be livid and she would know it. Did these men consent to this behavior? What exactly happened?


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> Yes, we all need to come back down to Earth now and deal with the actual facts of the case as they have been presented and set the porn fantasies aside for now.


Here are the facts:

1) she made the rule long ago that neither of them are to go to "racy" places and forbid him to go to a strip club with friends while in NOLA, and he agreed and respected her feelings.

2) she breaks her own rule, and ends up finding herself in a bathroom with other men to "take pictures"

3) he, especially after she broke her own rule, is uncomfortable about this and makes it known. Knowing her husband is upset about this, that should have been the end of it.

4) she gets upset when a 2nd bachelorette party is planned and she is initially left out due to too many included. So not only did she not respect her husband's feelings about the first outing, she wanted to do the 2nd one. She broke her own rule the 1st time around, and wants to continue to break her own rule even after @1Adam12 had a talk with her about it.

He feels he isn't getting the truth and feels disrespected. Whether his wife did anything or not remains to be seen. Either way, there is something about the 1st outing that got her all upset she couldn't attend the 2nd one and claims she was "forced" to do certain things. If she felt forced, as if she didn't want to do them, she should have denied the 2nd outing, yes?



> But let's not let our imaginations overide our common sense. We are still talking about a 60-something year old church lady out with her daughter and her daughters friends and potentially some inlaws as well. Let's set aside the bathroom blow jobs until we have some credible evidence of such.
> 
> I'm not saying that she did or did not engage in more that what she has admitted to, I am saying lets stick with what we have actually be presented and deal with that.


I'll stick with she broke her own rules and doesn't seem to care what her husband thinks about it. That and she was upset she wasn't initially invited to the 2nd outing after the 1st one didn't sit well with hubby is all too telling.


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> But after the first night out of questionable behavior, the kind of behavior and activity she decided long ago was not appropriate until it was convenient for her, she would have taken his concerns and said, "ok, that isn't happening again" nor would she want to do anything like that (attending "racy" venues that she decided long ago shouldn't happen for him as well).
> 
> But then a 2nd opportunity came up for some "racy" activity and instead of thinking to herself that it shouldn't happen again, she was actually disappointed she wasn't included initially.
> 
> So she WANTED to engage in behavior she previously laid down the law about and said was not appropriate. That and the trickle truthing.





drencrom said:


> yes, I found that and that is what he said.
> 
> But even so, he called her on it, so you think a 2nd trip with the kind of "racy" activity she forbid long ago for him would not interest her. Instead she was upset she wasn't initially invited to the 2nd bachelorette party. If she respected his feelings about what happened on the first one, and honored her own rules, she wouldn't have gone to the 2nd one. But she WANTED to. So now it became inconvenient for her to follow her own rules because she now wants to do these things.


This is why I told him HE needs to decide what he is and what he is not willing to put up with. 

She is kind of playing a technicality on him here. After the first incident, he told her following some dude into the jon was not cool. He didn't tell her not to go to the strippers and didn't tell her not to put money into their skivvies. 

30 years ago when she told him that strippers were not ok, she meant they were not ok FOR HIM. She may not have even known there was such a thing as male strippers back then. 

So she's kind of playing a fast one and talking out both sides of her mouth here. 

She's a 60 year old free adult woman. He can't tell her what she can and what she can not do. He can only determine for himself what he is willing to put up with. 

Does she pull this kind of stuff all the time? Does he tell her not to run up the credit cards on stupid stuff so takes out cash and buys stupid stuff with cash instead? If they are discussing vacation plans and he says he does not want to go to her cousin Cindy's house like they did last year so she books plane tickets to her cousin Rhonda's place instead? 

Does she has a history of doing dumb, impulsive, borderline appropriate things and then making excuses? 

This really comes down to him and what kind of behavior he is willing to accept or not. Because if he says he doesn't want her going to strip clubs and giving strippers money and patting them on the tush again, Then maybe for the 3rd daughter's wedding they will book a hotel room for a private stripper and she will give her daughter the money to give to the stripper and she licks his pecs instead. 

It's about whether he chooses to tolerate her behavior or not.


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## Diana7

What I don't get is when she rang him and said they was going to see a stripper why he didn't set a boundary then and clearly say that he didn't want to go. I mean what was the point in ringing him just to say she was going?


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## drencrom

Diana7 said:


> What I don't get is when she rang him and said they was going to see a stripper why he didn't set a boundary then and clearly say that he didn't want to go. I mean what was the point in ringing him just to say she was going?


Likely to check in so he can't say she went dark on him. She probably didn't want to, but felt compelled, especially after the first time he expressed his concerns and she blew them off.


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## oldshirt

I have not read all 7 pages. Why are people talking about he should apologise to her??? I don't see that he has anything to apologise for. What is that all about???


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## drencrom

And then there is the issue of her telling him "nothing happened and we are not talking about it again". Had that been my wife, she'd find I talk with her very little about anything after that disrespect.


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## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> I have not read all 7 pages. Why are people talking about he should apologise to her??? I don't see that he has anything to apologise for. What is that all about???


Someone thinking he is overreacting, likely not reading all of his post knowing this is the kind of behavior she forbid him to do long ago. Behavior that he agreed should not happened and he respected her concerns.


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## pastasauce79

I'm a wife, I'm pretty chill, and I've never been to a bachelorette party at a strip club. 

I mean, I could go to a Chippendale show just to laugh at how outrageous women get at those shows. I think it could be pretty funny and entertaining, but getting up close and smell the men's sweat and grab a nut? I don't think so. Yuck!

The first and only time I've been to a strip club was years ago. I went with my husband, and we walked out after 15 minutes inside the place. We went home and I felt I needed to take a shower!! I felt dirty!!! There's no way I'm going to one of those places ever again. 

If my husband came and told me he went to my son's bachelor party at a strip club I'd be furious!!! I'd be really questioning my marriage if I knew he was grabbing someone else's boob. I mean, what the heck??? That's so disrespectful. You don't go grabbing people's junk just because your friends are egging you on? Or do you?? I think this is so messed up. 

And if my son wanted to have a bachelor party at a strip club, I would be telling my future DIL to watch out. I'd be so embarrassed! 

From my experience at a Catholic school and Catholic upbringing, I saw a bunch of good Catholic girls go bananas when they had a little bit of freedom. I didn't think that still happened once they were married and settled. SMH...

If I were you, I'd be so sad, so disappointed. I really don't know what I would do. I don't know if it could be a deal breaker, but it would definitely be something that could change the way I see my husband and my marriage.


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## Evinrude58

It’s all about the disrespect and continued abuse of trust. OP ignoring it isn’t gonna change anything. He’s known her a long time. I suppose my own personal hang up here is that just because you’ve known a person a long time, doesn’t mean you know them and how they gangue temptations. Clearly his wife has some temptations that she isn’t letting him in on. Then again, if it’s truly only these two times in all these years….. 

I think the fact that his own daughters and wife are doing this stuff leads me to believe they are highly suspicious of being cheaters.


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## Talker67

i still say she is just a very horny 60 year old lady that needs to get laid a lot more than she is getting


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## Cynthia

Also, as someone else mentioned, I'd be very concerned about her boundaries now. Who's to say that she wouldn't have an affair if her boundaries have become so loose? This has to be properly addressed or the marriage is in serious danger. Again, no punishment, but certainly setting some real boundaries.

That whole thing with following men into the restroom sounds very rude and childish. What on earth was she thinking!?


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## HappilyMarried1

Sorry @1Adam12 but a couple of questions to clarify a couple of things. I assume she knew from the other girls that they were going to a male strip club before they left for the evening. I would go farther and say that they had a itinerary of everything that was happening before they left. The wife knew this and only called you from the club so that you would find out about it later. Finally you reminded her about her behavior the previous trip before she left and she did this anyway knowing how you would feel. I personally would feel more hurt about the first incident in the mens restroom. Those men were not professional and there were a list of things that could have happened in there. Did she go in before herself or did other girls go in with her? If she took pictures in there she had to be looking in there for sure. I pity you when daughter #3 gets married. 😊


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## BigDaddyNY

Young at Heart said:


> A few thoughts. I agree with you that if all he did was apologize to his wife and rug sweep, he would be setting his marriage up for failure. If on the other hand he forgave her and set things up for mutual forgiveness and then discussed boundaries they both need to live by, that might not be a path to disaster.
> 
> My understanding of the act of "teabagging" is that a woman needs to be an active participant in the "teabagging" and that it is more something she does *to the guy* than he does to her, usually.
> 
> Now as to this second daughter's hen party, I think a lot of folks missed part of the original post, ".......The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “*no that comes after the drag show*”. ......" To me that sort of sounds like "drag queens" or gay men might have been the entertainment. That does not diminish the degrading nature of the behavior, but it might make it a lot less "sexually threatening" to some.
> 
> I also agree with you that there are different strokes for different folks. As to advising a daughter's intended that she may have done something morally questionable. I know you didn't say you would do it, but you said you would find it hard not to tell the young man. If he needs to be told, it should be by the young man's future wife, preferable before the marriage. If I were the father, I would probably tell the daughter she should tell her future husband what happened before the wedding. He might already know and be fine with it for whatever reason. As you say different strokes.


You seem to have a different understanding of tea bagging than I do. Tea bagging involves a man putting his testicles on the face or in the mouth of another person. Honestly, out of this whole story I'm most concerned about the daughter and her actions. I would be as upset or more upset with my daughter over that than my church going wife putting bills in a g-string. I suspect the mom just wanted to fit in. She still made bad choices, but this was all set up by someone else that lacked any morals or self control. If my fiancé allowed herself to be tea bagged it would be over. She cheated, plain and simple. Would anyone here not call touching another man's genital, in any way shape or form, cheating?


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## 1Adam12

oldshirt said:


> Just for clarification, I don't believe the bathroom incident involved a stripper or a nekkid guy.
> 
> That sounds like they were just at some club and she followed some random normal guy into the jon. Not that that isn't still kind of sophomoric and inappropriate, but he did not indicate the first incident involved strippers.


I never said the first incident was at a strip joint. It was a beach bar.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Evinrude58 said:


> It’s all about the disrespect and continued abuse of trust. OP ignoring it isn’t gonna change anything. He’s known her a long time. I suppose my own personal hang up here is that just because you’ve known a person a long time, doesn’t mean you know them and how they gangue temptations. Clearly his wife has some temptations that she isn’t letting him in on. Then again, if it’s truly only these two times in all these years…..
> 
> I think the fact that his own daughters and wife are doing this stuff leads me to believe they are highly suspicious of being cheaters.


Violating trust, breaking boundaries in spite of their agreements and in spite of violation the first time; this would be more than I could stand.
Did she go off the rails and do much more than he knows? Who knows, that's not even in the discussion for me at this point.

The underlying violation of trust that put her in the strip club(s) or restroom(s) in the first place are enough that I would need to get away and think clearly (separate).
Violation of trust especially on a specific agreed upon boundary is not going to sit well with me. 
That hits hard (and I would think) take a real strong <sinful> desire within her for her to consider it in the first place. On either occasion.

I would need to see real remorse and know she has understanding of what she did to me and the marriage.
I would need to hear and believe in my gut every detail of what happened and every reason for getting to that point.
I would need to see action (no GNO, over-communication when apart, come-to-Jesus meeting with daughters, etc) to build trust.

Short of this I'm not sure I could restore my trust and my marriage would be doomed.
I've rugswept suspicious activities before, and paid for it. Never again.


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> Here are the facts:
> 
> 1) she made the rule long ago that neither of them are to go to "racy" places and forbid him to go to a strip club with friends while in NOLA, and he agreed and respected her feelings.
> 
> 2) she breaks her own rule, and ends up finding herself in a bathroom with other men to "take pictures"
> 
> 3) he, especially after she broke her own rule, is uncomfortable about this and makes it known. Knowing her husband is upset about this, that should have been the end of it.
> 
> 4) she gets upset when a 2nd bachelorette party is planned and she is initially left out due to too many included. So not only did she not respect her husband's feelings about the first outing, she wanted to do the 2nd one. She broke her own rule the 1st time around, and wants to continue to break her own rule even after @1Adam12 had a talk with her about it.
> 
> He feels he isn't getting the truth and feels disrespected. Whether his wife did anything or not remains to be seen. Either way, there is something about the 1st outing that got her all upset she couldn't attend the 2nd one and claims she was "forced" to do certain things. If she felt forced, as if she didn't want to do them, she should have denied the 2nd outing, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll stick with she broke her own rules and doesn't seem to care what her husband thinks about it. That and she was upset she wasn't initially invited to the 2nd outing after the 1st one didn't sit well with hubby is all too telling.


Again, this is a matter of her character and pattern of behaviors. Is it typical for her to act in a manner that rules apply to other people but not to her? Does she behave in a manner that is not longer acceptable to him? 

#1: this was presumably almost 40 years ago and it was to keep HIM out of strip joints. Male strippers may not have even been a thing back then. And if they were, she may not have been aware of that and had no concept of her ever doing anything like that herself. 

#2: This isn't really relevant to #1. It was just some kind of bar or club, it wasn't a strip place and there were no strippers involved. Was it immature and inappropriate behavior,, yes, but in 1986, she made no rule about following some dude into the jon so she can't be accused of breaking any "rules." She can only be accused of boarish and undignified behavior. 

#3. He was upset she got stupid and followed some dude into the bathroom. She did not do that on the 2nd bachelorette party. Again, this comes down to her overall pattern of behavior. Is it typical for her to do obnoxious and inappropriate things. I mean no one can sit and list off every single behavior that they do not want the other to do. There has to be some accountability for good judgement and appropriate behavior. 

It comes down to context. If this is all a pattern of her behavior, then he really needs to decide if this is who he wants to be with any longer. 

If these two incidents are the worst things she has ever done in 60-some years,,,, then that's a different story. 

#4: Again, we have to use a little common sense. He remembers her saying no strip joints 40 years ago. Did she even remember that? When he said, "we don't go to those place," she probably thought, "YOU don't go to those places. I'm out with the girls." Was it disrespectful and disregarding of him and his wishes - YES. It was. 

He has a right to be upset and he has a right to evaluate whether he can accept this or not. 

But to be realistic, we really can't hold a 60 year old mother of 3 adult children to something she said about Bourbon Street strip clubs in 1986. I'm sorry, you just can't. Things change. People change. Situations are different. 

Should she have asked him if he was ok with it and at least discussed it with him and at least made some kind of attempt to reach some kind of compromise that didn't hurt him and offend his sensibilities?? Yes, of course, all couples need to be respectful and compassionate of the other's well being. 

She screwed the pooch and he is perfectly in his right to be upset and to question his trust and feelings and faith in her. 

But we can't beat her with the Bourbon Street Bat. 

We can say that she screwed up in Dec 2021 that has damaged her marriage that she needs to be held accountable for today. But we're really pushing it to point fingers at something a 20 year old woman said about female strip joints on Bourbon Street in 1986.


----------



## oldshirt

1Adam12 said:


> I never said the first incident was at a strip joint. It was a beach bar.


I know, That is what I was trying to tell the other posters.


----------



## 1Adam12

oldshirt said:


> And also, while this behavior may not be appropriate in normal daily life, this is all part and parcel of a bachelorette party and if this is all that happened,, it was actually quite tame.
> 
> Did any of the strippers and the OP's wife have any kind of actual sexual contact? Probably not.
> 
> These guys have hot, 20something year old chicks waiting for them in the parking lot and lined up waiting their turn back at their hotel room. Unless the OP's wife is Christie Brinkley or one of them has some kind of 60 year old woman fetish, my money is on he graciously took money, let her feel his abz a few moments, maybe ground his junk into her boobs for a second or two and then moved on to the next chick with a wad of dollar bills in her hand.
> 
> If the OP's wife was determined to get some of that, she would have had to have waited in line behind a bunch of hot, hard-bodied 20-somethings and hoped he still had a drop left in him before her got to her.
> 
> Unless there is something that has been completely covered up behind an iron curtain of secrecy amongst the girls, this is not garden variety cheating or an affair or extramarital sex in the classic sense.
> 
> It is boarish and obnoxious and disrespectful behavior and an element of dishonesty and trickle truth. It's on him to determine whether it is something he can accept or not. It's not like he found out the 17 went to the kegger out in the country when someone's parents were out of town so he takes her car keys away for a month.


I agree with this assessment.


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## 1Adam12

drencrom said:


> Not getting carried away. There is NO reason to follow men into the men's bathroom especially in an environment of arousal in the first place. To take pictures? Please.
> 
> I'm betting it was, and even if not, that's actually kind of worse. It's "look but don't touch", and she didn't follow them in there to say, "hi, can I take a picture??" Something is not right, I can almost guarantee you that.
> 
> 
> 
> The only regular guys that go to these things, unless there are some **** bf's and husbands going along, are guys wanting to get an easy lay. And if she was smart, she'd know this and followed them anyway? Testing the waters maybe?
> 
> @1Adam12, we need some clarification here. Have you seen these pictures? And not that it matters really, were they strippers she went into the bathroom with or regular guys?


The more recent event was the first strip club. I never saw pictures from first event. The stripper video he had a leather cover on and they were acting out the actions.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

1Adam12 said:


> The more recent event was the first strip club. I never saw pictures from first event. The stripper video he had a leather cover on and they were acting out the actions.


Still highly inappropriate. What does your daughter have to say about all this? I'm surprised that your daughters are all okay with this kind of behavior given your opinion and what your wife said her opinion WAS about strip clubs.


----------



## 1Adam12

happyhusband0005 said:


> OK i think people's imaginations are getting a little carried away here which is not helpful to the OP. @1Adam12 Did I miss something from what I have read.
> 
> 1. Bachelorette party one the girls got silly and were following guys into the bathroom and trying to snap pictures.
> 
> My wife followed male bar patrons into restroom and took pictures I never saw.
> 
> 2. Bachelorette party two, they go to a drag show and then a strip club, or the drag show was at the strip club and they stayed for a male revue show after the drag show. At this show your wife put a bill or bills in the strippers G-string, and your daughter got the typical bachelor/bachelorette lap dance in front of the crowd. Important question where was this strip club big city, small town?
> 
> Big city as you described. All male strippers all female audience on the second more recent event. Not skin on skin as there was a pouch.


----------



## jlg07

drencrom said:


> And that's what SHE says....it was to take photos. She couldn't have taken them outside the men's bathroom?
> 
> I'm guessing more went on in the men's bathroom than just pictures.


Op did she ever show you the "pictures" that she took? If not, WHY not? She should have been able to show you proof of that's what she did.


----------



## jlg07

drencrom said:


> That's even worse. It's one thing to get all hot and bothered by a stripper in the public area of the club, but following other men into the bathroom? I'm guessing more than just pictures happened. She has no sense of decency or respect for her husband.


Also, how many random men are at a MALE stripper show?

Eta: i see that this was a regular bar, not strippers...


----------



## BigDaddyNY

jlg07 said:


> Also, how many random men are at a MALE stripper show?


The bathroom shenanigans was not at a strip club, just a bar.


----------



## Tdbo

oldshirt said:


> But to be realistic, we really can't hold a 60 year old mother of 3 adult children to something she said about Bourbon Street strip clubs in 1986. I'm sorry, you just can't. Things change. People change. Situations are different.
> 
> Should she have asked him if he was ok with it and at least discussed it with him and at least made some kind of attempt to reach some kind of compromise that didn't hurt him and offend his sensibilities?? Yes, of course, all couples need to be respectful and compassionate of the other's well being.
> 
> She screwed the pooch and he is perfectly in his right to be upset and to question his trust and feelings and faith in her.
> 
> But we can't beat her with the Bourbon Street Bat.
> 
> We can say that she screwed up in Dec 2021 that has damaged her marriage that she needs to be held accountable for today. But we're really pushing it to point fingers at something a 20 year old woman said about female strip joints on Bourbon Street in 1986.


My only problem with this is would the boundary be administered equally for both parties?* It should be.*

Let's say hypothetically, that OP went to the strip club in June of '21. Would he be beaten by the "Bourbon Street Bat?"

My guess is, yes he would have been. Severely.

So why should she not be held equally for a boundary that she set? Especially, when apparently that boundary was addressed again with her first faux pas.

If he did it now, he might not be subjected to batting practice. She blew that boundary clean up.


----------



## 1Adam12

Cynthia said:


> I agree with pretty much all of this She needs to have some consequences. I'm not into the idea of punishment, but I am into boundary setting. I recommend you distance yourself from her, until she understands the gravity of the situation and repents, or this will happen with your next daughter. It's important to tell her why you are giving her the cold shoulder and how upset you are with her behavior. The statements that @sokillme suggested are good. She needs to feel the weight of your disgust and disapproval of her behavior and your concern for your marriage. I would also cut off sex for a while at least. I don't say this lightly. Again, I'm not about punishment, this is about setting some appropriate boundaries and showing how upset you are. It's not about punishing her.
> 
> You might concern setting up six or so marriage counseling sessions to work through this situation. I'd go alone first, to make sure the therapist was in agreement with your concerns and was willing to help you work though it with your wife and help her understand that this has damaged your opinion of her and has damaged your marriage.
> 
> Under no circumstances should you apologize to her. It takes one person to destroy a marriage, but two to make it work.
> 
> Also, I am wondering about her following men into the restroom. What happened in there? If my husband was in the restroom and a women tried to take his picture, it would not go well for her. He would be livid and she would know it. Did these men consent to this behavior? What exactly happened?


I never saw pictures from first bar outing three years ago but I think they described them as men standing on or at urinals. This was not a strip joint years ago.


----------



## 1Adam12

BigDaddyNY said:


> You seem to have a different understanding of tea bagging than I do. Tea bagging involves a man putting his testicles on the face or in the mouth of another person. Honestly, out of this whole story I'm most concerned about the daughter and her actions. I would be as upset or more upset with my daughter over that than my church going wife putting bills in a g-string. I suspect the mom just wanted to fit in. She still made bad choices, but this was all set up by someone else that lacked any morals or self control. If my fiancé allowed herself to be tea bagged it would be over. She cheated, plain and simple. Would anyone here not call touching another man's genital, in any way shape or form, cheating?


I meant they acted this out. Strippers keep a bag on their junk.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

oldshirt said:


> Again, this is a matter of her character and pattern of behaviors. Is it typical for her to act in a manner that rules apply to other people but not to her? Does she behave in a manner that is not longer acceptable to him?
> 
> #1: this was presumably almost 40 years ago and it was to keep HIM out of strip joints. Male strippers may not have even been a thing back then. And if they were, she may not have been aware of that and had no concept of her ever doing anything like that herself.
> 
> #2: This isn't really relevant to #1. It was just some kind of bar or club, it wasn't a strip place and there were no strippers involved. Was it immature and inappropriate behavior,, yes, but in 1986, she made no rule about following some dude into the jon so she can't be accused of breaking any "rules." She can only be accused of boarish and undignified behavior.
> 
> #3. He was upset she got stupid and followed some dude into the bathroom. She did not do that on the 2nd bachelorette party. Again, this comes down to her overall pattern of behavior. Is it typical for her to do obnoxious and inappropriate things. I mean no one can sit and list off every single behavior that they do not want the other to do. There has to be some accountability for good judgement and appropriate behavior.
> 
> It comes down to context. If this is all a pattern of her behavior, then he really needs to decide if this is who he wants to be with any longer.
> 
> If these two incidents are the worst things she has ever done in 60-some years,,,, then that's a different story.
> 
> #4: Again, we have to use a little common sense. He remembers her saying no strip joints 40 years ago. Did she even remember that? When he said, "we don't go to those place," she probably thought, "YOU don't go to those places. I'm out with the girls." Was it disrespectful and disregarding of him and his wishes - YES. It was.
> 
> He has a right to be upset and he has a right to evaluate whether he can accept this or not.
> 
> But to be realistic, we really can't hold a 60 year old mother of 3 adult children to something she said about Bourbon Street strip clubs in 1986. I'm sorry, you just can't. Things change. People change. Situations are different.
> 
> Should she have asked him if he was ok with it and at least discussed it with him and at least made some kind of attempt to reach some kind of compromise that didn't hurt him and offend his sensibilities?? Yes, of course, all couples need to be respectful and compassionate of the other's well being.
> 
> She screwed the pooch and he is perfectly in his right to be upset and to question his trust and feelings and faith in her.
> 
> But we can't beat her with the Bourbon Street Bat.
> 
> We can say that she screwed up in Dec 2021 that has damaged her marriage that she needs to be held accountable for today. But we're really pushing it to point fingers at something a 20 year old woman said about female strip joints on Bourbon Street in 1986.


Whereas I don't think it was a good thing, @oldshirt has some good points. She's older now, and seeing the end of the road in her kids married, was spending albeit questionable time with daughter, at her age she maybe wanted to go along with daughter. And made a mistake. Yes, there are now serious things to discuss but it's not necessarily a time for an extended flogging.


----------



## jlg07

1Adam12 said:


> I meant they acted this out. Strippers keep a bag on their junk.


SO the bag on their junk makes a difference? What if there was a video of them doing that to your WIFE? AND she had a big old smile on her face -- does that bag make it all ok?

What do you think her soon-to-be Husband would think about that? You think he is ok with it?


----------



## SRCSRC

Hypocrisy is a terrible trait. She set the rule and broke it. If you are invited to the bachelor party, go have a lap dance. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Call it even at that point and move on unless there are other more serious issues.


----------



## oldshirt

1Adam12 said:


> I am a man who would like some input to help me understand the way the sexes may differ in desires and boundary crossing. If I did the same things described below instead of my wife, our relationship would have serious, if not terminal, problems.
> 
> 
> Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom?
> 
> Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires?
> 
> Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards?
> 
> Do most women think this is just plain fun, and could a women sit in a show like that and not know that when you hold up money a male dancer is going to come to you and give you attention?


@1Adam12 These are really good questions and deserve more than what is taking place on this thread currently. These are things that probably deserve some actual investigation and study by actual social scientists rather than people on an internet marriage forum, many of which are here due to infidelity and tend to see everything through that lens. 

You would also be better off posting these questions in another thread without the details of your wife's activities. 

There really is kind of a weird phenomenon with women and male strippers and even more specifically Bachelorette party/male stripper. What has happened with your wife and daughter is NOT at all unique. Every weekend there are good, dutiful, church-going wives and mothers and girlfriends etc that go to male strippers and it is like they are given a free pass to act out in ways they would never do in real life. 

.... and everyone acts like it is OK. Like I said, it's like all rules of social and sexual order are set aside and everyone is given a free pass. Mothers can go out with daughters and rub their faces in some guy's junk. Grown, middle age corporate executives can feel up some guy's buns while he gyrates his ass in her face with just a thong going down his buttcrack covering up his bunghole. 

Where else on the planet is this ok???? But yet, not only is it socially acceptable, it is even expected if not egged on and encouraged. And when everyone leaves, they all go home as if nothing has happened and it's all expected to be accepted without question or repercussion. 

And yes there is a definate double standard. While men may also get away with a little more at a bachelor party with a female stripper than he would if it were some other chick in regular life,, there is more of a stigma of men behaving badly at the strip joints than with women. 

A lot of higher end female strip clubs have very strict rules about touching the dancers or getting handsy with them. I honestly don't know if such rules even exist or are even in place when it is a lady's night at a club with male strippers. If there are rules, I doubt if they are enforced at all. 

Some of that I can understand as these guys are very fit and strong and will be able to defend himself if some 125 lb woman is getting a little too aggressive with him. 

But my point to all of this is there is a very definate double standard and male stripper events do offer women some kind of free pass to what would normally be unacceptable in normal society. 

On some of your other questions, these are just my own humble opinions based on what I have seen and read in the world and my own experiences and things relayed to me by other people. 

- I got tarred and feathered in some other threads for saying this but I don't care, this is what I have learned in my almost 58 years on Planet Earth...... but I don't think your wife or your daughter or anyone else "changed" when they got with the strippers. It was always there within them. They were just in an environment where it was acceptable and expected to behave that way. Your wife may be a good, God-fearing Christian and she may bake pies for Ladies Aid and help stock the food pantry for the homeless,,,, but she is still a sexual being that appreciates the physique of an exceptionally fit and handsome man. Devotion to Jesus doesn't eliminate that. She's not really a mom in that situation. She is just another chick getting off on a hunky dude(s). 

- she didn't "forget" to tell you. She knew you wouldn't like it or give your stamp of approval ahead of time. And a part of her didn't want you to think less of her or think that she wasn't as pious and pure as what you think.... so she simply tried to get away with as much as she could. Are there things you don't know all about? yes. But did she actually have any kind of actual sexual contact or interaction with any of these guys? other than copping a feel of his abs or patting his tush, probably not. This was a room full of horny, screaming 20-somethings handing out money, he had other things to do than mess with a 60 year old. 

- As far as the kids and the moral standards goes, I'll offer this- Mom was still there. It's kind of like the parents that let their kids have a beer or two in the house so they can make sure they don't drive off and kill somebody. We can all argue over the legalities and ethics of that decision, but parents will allow some things under they eye that they won't condone or support out of sight. I am not saying she was right in having your daughter rub her face into this guy's junk,, but I am hoping that she would have intervened if she was getting into his car to drive off into the night with him. .....I'm hoping that at least. I assume she would. Probably. 

- Make no mistake, they WANTED these dude's attention!! Nobody was duped here. Nobody was caught offguard. They wanted to party and act the fool. They wanted these hunky guys to rub their junk into their boobies. And like I said above, for some reason, the bachelorette party/male stripper scenario gets a free pass and a get-out-of-jail-free card. They get a time out from society to put the normal codes of conduct on the shelf for awhile during that party. And yes, most think it is fun. They are not going to tell you that when you call them out on it. They will blame-shift and say it was the "other" women that were getting off on it and that they were just along with the crowd and didn't like it that much. But that ain't true, they were digging it just as much as everyone else. 

I'm not saying any of this is moral, or ethical or right. I'm just saying how it is. 

It will be up to you on what you can tolerate and what you cannot in terms of behavior of your wife. 

If this was two times in her entire life that she did something kind of racy like this, that is one thing. 

If this is part of a pattern of her being dismissive and disrespectful towards you and disregards your boundaries and comfort zones etc,, that is a whole other ball of wax.


----------



## ConanHub

Talker67 said:


> Dude, that NEVER works. they just get more unhinged!


LoL! Not when I do it.😉


----------



## 1Adam12

oldshirt said:


> @1Adam12 These are really good questions and deserve more than what is taking place on this thread currently. These are things that probably deserve some actual investigation and study by actual social scientists rather than people on an internet marriage forum, many of which are here due to infidelity and tend to see everything through that lens.
> 
> You would also be better off posting these questions in another thread without the details of your wife's activities.
> 
> There really is kind of a weird phenomenon with women and male strippers and even more specifically Bachelorette party/male stripper. What has happened with your wife and daughter is NOT at all unique. Every weekend there are good, dutiful, church-going wives and mothers and girlfriends etc that go to male strippers and it is like they are given a free pass to act out in ways they would never do in real life.
> 
> .... and everyone acts like it is OK. Like I said, it's like all rules of social and sexual order are set aside and everyone is given a free pass. Mothers can go out with daughters and rub their faces in some guy's junk. Grown, middle age corporate executives can feel up some guy's buns while he gyrates his ass in her face with just a thong going down his buttcrack covering up his bunghole.
> 
> Where else on the planet is this ok???? But yet, not only is it socially acceptable, it is even expected if not egged on and encouraged. And when everyone leaves, they all go home as if nothing has happened and it's all expected to be accepted without question or repercussion.
> 
> And yes there is a definate double standard. While men may also get away with a little more at a bachelor party with a female stripper than he would if it were some other chick in regular life,, there is more of a stigma of men behaving badly at the strip joints than with women.
> 
> A lot of higher end female strip clubs have very strict rules about touching the dancers or getting handsy with them. I honestly don't know if such rules even exist or are even in place when it is a lady's night at a club with male strippers. If there are rules, I doubt if they are enforced at all.
> 
> Some of that I can understand as these guys are very fit and strong and will be able to defend himself if some 125 lb woman is getting a little too aggressive with him.
> 
> But my point to all of this is there is a very definate double standard and male stripper events do offer women some kind of free pass to what would normally be unacceptable in normal society.
> 
> On some of your other questions, these are just my own humble opinions based on what I have seen and read in the world and my own experiences and things relayed to me by other people.
> 
> - I got tarred and feathered in some other threads for saying this but I don't care, this is what I have learned in my almost 58 years on Planet Earth...... but I don't think your wife or your daughter or anyone else "changed" when they got with the strippers. It was always there within them. They were just in an environment where it was acceptable and expected to behave that way. Your wife may be a good, God-fearing Christian and she may bake pies for Ladies Aid and help stock the food pantry for the homeless,,,, but she is still a sexual being that appreciates the physique of an exceptionally fit and handsome man. Devotion to Jesus doesn't eliminate that. She's not really a mom in that situation. She is just another chick getting off on a hunky dude(s).
> 
> - she didn't "forget" to tell you. She knew you wouldn't like it or give your stamp of approval ahead of time. And a part of her didn't want you to think less of her or think that she wasn't as pious and pure as what you think.... so she simply tried to get away with as much as she could. Are there things you don't know all about? yes. But did she actually have any kind of actual sexual contact or interaction with any of these guys? other than copping a feel of his abs or patting his tush, probably not. This was a room full of horny, screaming 20-somethings handing out money, he had other things to do than mess with a 60 year old.
> 
> - As far as the kids and the moral standards goes, I'll offer this- Mom was still there. It's kind of like the parents that let their kids have a beer or two in the house so they can make sure they don't drive off and kill somebody. We can all argue over the legalities and ethics of that decision, but parents will allow some things under they eye that they won't condone or support out of sight. I am not saying she was right in having your daughter rub her face into this guy's junk,, but I am hoping that she would have intervened if she was getting into his car to drive off into the night with him. .....I'm hoping that at least. I assume she would. Probably.
> 
> - Make no mistake, they WANTED these dude's attention!! Nobody was duped here. Nobody was caught offguard. They wanted to party and act the fool. They wanted these hunky guys to rub their junk into their boobies. And like I said above, for some reason, the bachelorette party/male stripper scenario gets a free pass and a get-out-of-jail-free card. They get a time out from society to put the normal codes of conduct on the shelf for awhile during that party. And yes, most think it is fun. They are not going to tell you that when you call them out on it. They will blame-shift and say it was the "other" women that were getting off on it and that they were just along with the crowd and didn't like it that much. But that ain't true, they were digging it just as much as everyone else.
> 
> I'm not saying any of this is moral, or ethical or right. I'm just saying how it is.
> 
> It will be up to you on what you can tolerate and what you cannot in terms of behavior of your wife.
> 
> If this was two times in her entire life that she did something kind of racy like this, that is one thing.
> 
> If this is part of a pattern of her being dismissive and disrespectful towards you and disregards your boundaries and comfort zones etc,, that is a whole other ball of wax.


Thank you for the very intelligent insight. I needed a true female answer like this.


----------



## oldshirt

Tdbo said:


> My only problem with this is would the boundary be administered equally for both parties?* It should be.*
> 
> Let's say hypothetically, that OP went to the strip club in June of '21. Would he be beaten by the "Bourbon Street Bat?"
> 
> My guess is, yes he would have been. Severely.
> 
> So why should she not be held equally for a boundary that she set? Especially, when apparently that boundary was addressed again with her first faux pas.


y'never know. It's been 40 years and he's presumably been a church guy and doting husband and father for 40 years and has probably logged more couch and TV time than he ever has going out or goofing around - she may be impressed the ol' fella still had some life left in him LOL

But I get your point and I agree that if he had pulled a fast one like she did and was out with the guys and it came to light after the fact he was stuff dollar bills into some chicks g-string, she probably would have filleted him publicly. 

He has a right to be upset here. I'm not questioning that. 

My point is after 40 years, the things you said and agreed upon in 1986 as newlyweds may or may not still have much relevance. 

28 years ago when my wife and I were first getting together, I would have been uneasy with her going to male strippers. At that time she was a 25 year old hottie and former teen model and beauty pageant (excuse me, I mean scholarship program) contestant. She was the kind of chick these guys WOULD bang in the bathroom if she gave them half a chance. 

But today in her post-menopausal 50s if she wanted to go out with the girls to the strippers and act stupid, I'd tell her not to get arrested or wreck the car or bring home an STI,,,,, but otherwise if it gave her a few extra drops of hormones and she came home to me the slightest bit frisky, I'd gladly strip down to my Fruit of the Looms and shake my Dad Bod infront of her for her own private strip show LOL  

And vice versa, back when we were first getting together she too wouldn't have wanted me out catting around blowing money on strippers and sillyness either. 

But today, If I were to say that I was going out with the fellas to hit the strip joints and party it up, she'd probably be impressed that I could stay awake past 9 pm. 

Some things are just simply different at different ages and different stages in life. 

Where they screwed up was just not talking about this stuff and coming up with some kind of mutually agreeable plan and compromise. She pulled a fast one on him and then tried to cover it up and trickle truth'd him. That would pss anyone off.


----------



## Zedd

I usually think it's horrible for others to suggest passive-aggressive things, but, she might have a better understanding about how you feel if you:

1. Get a hotel for the night. Don't tell her.
2. Tell her you're going to a strip club to see what the hubub is about.
3. Go to a bar and watch whatever game is on, then sleep in your hotel bed.
4. When you get home, tell her you didn't follow through with the club because it's not who you are.


----------



## oldshirt

1Adam12 said:


> Thank you for the very intelligent insight. I needed a true female answer like this.


Ouch! 

I'm actually a dude 😯


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> But to be realistic, we really can't hold a 60 year old mother of 3 adult children to something she said about Bourbon Street strip clubs in 1986. I'm sorry, you just can't. Things change. People change. Situations are different.


Yes, you can hold her to it. Unless he says "That's ok honey, you go ahead and break your own rules, tell me I'm not to discuss it further, and go again even though I have a problem with it"....then yes....he can hold her to it.



> But we can't beat her with the Bourbon Street Bat.


Again, unless he agrees the rule is silly and no longer applies, yes, we can, and so can he.


----------



## oldshirt

Zedd said:


> I'm usually loathe to suggest passive-aggressive things, but, she might have a better understanding about how you feel if you:
> 
> 1. Get a hotel for the night. Don't tell her.
> 2. Tell her you're going to a strip club to see what the hubub is about.
> 3. Go to a bar and watch whatever game is on, then sleep in your hotel bed.
> 4. When you get home, tell her you didn't follow through with the club because it's not who you are.


No, that's just dumb, manipulative and juvenile. Playing games and pulling sneaky underhanded crap is what got them into this in the first place. 

My suggestion is be a man, stand up for your principles and values and state upfront what you find upsetting and unacceptable about this. Take an honest stand. 

Don't act like a whiney little boy. Don't act like a b!tch. Tell her what you honestly think of it and tell her what is and what is not acceptable conduct. 

If she thumbs her nose at you, then that shows her character and you can decide if that is where you want to be or not.


----------



## drencrom

Deleted, I read it wrong.


----------



## Zedd

oldshirt said:


> No, that's just dumb, manipulative and juvenile.


Agreed. I more or less admitted it.


oldshirt said:


> Playing games and pulling sneaky underhanded crap is what got them into this in the first place.


No, her ignoring the rules they previously had agreed upon got them into this.

I don't think she's sorry. It'll happen again if the opportunity presents itself without changing the status quo.


----------



## drencrom

Zedd said:


> Agreed. I more or less admitted it.
> 
> No, her ignoring the rules they previously had agreed upon got them into this.
> 
> I don't think she's sorry. It'll happen again if the opportunity presents itself without changing the status quo.


Hence her telling him they are to never discuss it again.


----------



## oldshirt

Zedd said:


> Agreed. I more or less admitted it.
> 
> No, her ignoring the rules they previously had agreed upon got them into this.
> 
> I don't think she's sorry. It'll happen again if the opportunity presents itself without changing the status quo.


She was the one being sneaky and underhanded. 

She knew he wouldn't approve of a night at the strippers and drunken shenanigans so she txt him as they were walking in the door and then trickle truthing him trying to get away with it. 

That's what I meant by being sneaky and underhanded got them into this.


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> No, that's just dumb, manipulative and juvenile. Playing games and pulling sneaky underhanded crap is what got them into this in the first place.
> 
> My suggestion is be a man, stand up for your principles and values and state upfront what you find upsetting and unacceptable about this. Take an honest stand.
> 
> Don't act like a whiney little boy. Don't act like a b!tch. Tell her what you honestly think of it and tell her what is and what is not acceptable conduct.
> 
> If she thumbs her nose at you, then that shows her character and you can decide if that is where you want to be or not.


She already thumbed her nose at him by telling him to drop the discussion.


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> No, that's just dumb, manipulative and juvenile. Playing games and pulling sneaky underhanded crap is what got them into this in the first place.
> 
> My suggestion is be a man, stand up for your principles and values and state upfront what you find upsetting and unacceptable about this. Take an honest stand.
> 
> Don't act like a whiney little boy. Don't act like a b!tch. Tell her what you honestly think of it and tell her what is and what is not acceptable conduct.
> 
> If she thumbs her nose at you, then that shows her character and you can decide if that is where you want to be or not.


Oh please. She broke her own rules, twice. I don't care if she made the rule in 1986. He respected her enough to abide by it.

She tells him to drop the discussion and he isn't allowed to say anything about it....and him teaching her a lesson would be HIM acting like a "b!tch"?

Wow, just ......wow.


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> She already thumbed her nose at him by telling him to drop the discussion.


Yes. 

And that is why I have said multiple times that he has to decide whether he finds this all acceptable or not. 

She's made her bed. It's now on him whether he can lay in it with her anymore or not. 

She's a 60-something year old woman. It's not like he can spank her or take away her car keys or take away her phone privileges for a month. 

He can only decide on what he will do about it.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

oldshirt said:


> My point is after 40 years, the things you said and agreed upon in 1986 as newlyweds may or may not still have much relevance.


Pre-agreed boundary changes have to be communicated before the boundary break regardless of any other life changes. Otherwise one partner is left feeling betrayed.

In your scenario, your wife would have talked to you first which is perfect.
Your point is good about changes and levels of intimacy, trust, & commitment over time. Change conversations can be revisited without causing issues.

Unfortunately, IMHO, I don't think it's helpful in a way that makes this less of a betrayal or breach of trust because those conversations never happened until after (or during) the fact. Both times. sad.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

oldshirt said:


> Ouch!
> 
> I'm actually a dude 😯


Frown more when you type.
Maybe growl a little and grab a beer. And a nudie mag.


----------



## happyhusband0005

drencrom said:


> Oh please. She broke her own rules, twice. I don't care if she made the rule in 1986. He respected her enough to abide by it.
> 
> She tells him to drop the discussion and he isn't allowed to say anything about it....and him teaching her a lesson would be HIM acting like a "b!tch"?
> 
> Wow, just ......wow.


This is why they need to have a discussion whether she wants to or not. Part of what @1Adam12 seems to be wondering is, has his wife changed and now enjoys this type of thing? So I think he needs to take a minute to collect his thoughts and feelings and then sit her down and force the conversation, get it all out there, reset the boundaries in a clear manner and stress the importance and seriousness of the boundaries. It's also important for him to have confidence he has the complete story, and she knows him finding out there was more to the story by an accidental slip a year or two down the road will not be a good thing.


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> Yes.
> 
> And that is why I have said multiple times that he has to decide whether he finds this all acceptable or not.
> 
> She's made her bed. It's now on him whether he can lay in it with her anymore or not.
> 
> She's a 60-something year old woman. It's not like he can spank her or take away her car keys or take away her phone privileges for a month.
> 
> He can only decide on what he will do about it.


Or he can decide if the rules don't apply to her any longer, then they don't apply to him either. That's another option.

Likely thinking if he can't deal with it that they are too old to divorce, so might as well just go off and do what he wants. And that may not even be going to strip joints.

IF I had a wife and she did this to me, then she forfeits the right to complain if I want to go to Vegas with the guys, etc.


----------



## Evinrude58

oldshirt said:


> Ouch!
> 
> I'm actually a dude 😯


Lmao. Are you sure? We don’t care what you identify with


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> Oh please. She broke her own rules, twice. I don't care if she made the rule in 1986. He respected her enough to abide by it.
> 
> She tells him to drop the discussion and he isn't allowed to say anything about it....and him teaching her a lesson would be HIM acting like a "b!tch"?
> 
> Wow, just ......wow.


you're not seeing the forest for the trees or taking my posts in their entirety. 

Yes, she broke her own 36 year old rule. Get over it. How many things did you say not to do in 1986 that you have since done? 

When I was 20 I said a lot of things I have since done. I said I wouldn't sit in another classroom again - I have a file full of certificates, degrees and diplomas. I said I'd never join the military - spent 6 years in uniform. I said I've never get another Dodge - I have one sitting in my garage right now. I said I'd never buy a Harley,,,, had one of those two until it started pissing oil on the garage floor just like they said it would. I said I'd never marry - it's been 26 years now. I said I'd never have kids - one just turned 20, the other 17. When I landed my dream job, I said I'd never resign - that was two jobs ago. 

I can go on but you get the point and you could say many similar things of your own as well.


----------



## drencrom

happyhusband0005 said:


> This is why they need to have a discussion whether she wants to or not.


I agree, but she basically told him to shut up about it and not acknowledging his feelings about it.

@1Adam12 What do YOU want to do? We've heard you agree with assessments, but haven't told us what you want to do or what you plan to do.


----------



## drencrom

oldshirt said:


> you're not seeing the forest for the trees or taking my posts in their entirety.
> 
> Yes, she broke her own 36 year old rule. Get over it. How many things did you say not to do in 1986 that you have since done?


Setting a reasonable rule like a couple has not business doing things like that shouldn't change whether they are 20 or 60. It might be one thing if she did it once and realized, "ya, I'm not doing that again"...but she obviously liked it and wants to break that rule again.

And to tell me to "get over it" is to tell him this as well. Yet he'd be a "b!tch" if he decided to show her what it's like? Why can't he do that and then she can get over it?

And breaking a rule of respect for your spouse can't be compared to changing your taste in cars.

So I submit to 1Adam12, if you don't like it and she won't talk about it, won't come clean, and basically tells you to just shut up about it, unless you divorce her over it, you need to just live your life and not worry about what she thinks about it.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> I have not read all 7 pages. Why are people talking about he should apologise to her??? I don't see that he has anything to apologise for. What is that all about???


I have no idea. One person says he should do that for some inexplicable reason.


----------



## ElOtro

Talker67 said:


> i still say she is just a very horny 60 year old lady that needs to get laid a lot more than she is getting


Probably.
What is a bit less clear is the image of a _married_ horny 60 year old lady who do not find evident _to whom_ ask for "to get laid a lot more than she is getting".


----------



## Talker67

I do not know what sort of "bar" this first place was, but there should be a BIG sign on the men's room door: "ABSOLUTELY NO TEA BAGGING"


----------



## 1Adam12

oldshirt said:


> Ouch!
> 
> I'm actually a dude 😯


I figured that out after I sent this post reply, but the sentiments sounded like my wife and counselors point of view so I left it that way. Let me say instead you’re a sensitive male.


----------



## oldshirt

1Adam12 said:


> I figured that out after I sent this post reply, but the sentiments sounded like my wife and counselors point of view so I left it that way. Let me say instead you’re a sensitive male.


No, actually I'm an A-hole. I'm not sensitive at all. I try to deal in objective facts and truths as much as I can without emotional appeasement. One of those truths is that there is 3 sides to every story. 

I just call it like I see it. A lot of people don't like that. And even more people don't like to have their world view challenged. 

And much of your consternation here is that view and assumptions about your wife and marriage has been challenged. 

Other than these two evenings that honked you off, you have not addressed her day-in/day-out character and behavior even though I have made it clear that the context of her daily life over the last 60 years of her existence on earth is highly significant. 

Is she or is she not a mature, responsible, level-headed, compassionate and respectful person and has she shown you 36 years of respect and compassion and shared values?

Or has she shown a pattern of implulsive, irresponsible, disrespectful and disregarding behavior towards you and towards your marriage? 

Is she really on par with you in regards to moral clarity and values - or is she only pious and virtuous when you are watching??

Those are critical factors in how you should view and deal with this as those are two completely different contexts and paradigms.


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> I agree, but she basically told him to shut up about it and not acknowledging his feelings about it.


This is why keep saying he needs to decide whether this is where he wants to be or not.

If he tosses her and her cats out, it doesn't matter if she acknowledges or agrees with his feelings or not. She has to live with the ramifications of her actions regardless. 

He doesn't need her appproval or endorsement on his feelings on the matter. He can do whatever he needs to do.


----------



## 1Adam12

oldshirt said:


> No, actually I'm an A-hole. I'm not sensitive at all. I try to deal in objective facts and truths as much as I can without emotional appeasement. One of those truths is that there is 3 sides to every story.
> 
> I just call it like I see it. A lot of people don't like that. And even more people don't like to have their world view challenged.
> 
> And much of your consternation here is that view and assumptions about your wife and marriage has been challenged.
> 
> Other than these two evenings that honked you off, you have not addressed her day-in/day-out character and behavior even though I have made it clear that the context of her daily life over the last 60 years of her existence on earth is highly significant.
> 
> Is she or is she not a mature, responsible, level-headed, compassionate and respectful person and has she shown you 36 years of respect and compassion and shared values?
> 
> Or has she shown a pattern of implulsive, irresponsible, disrespectful and disregarding behavior towards you and towards your marriage?
> 
> Is she really on par with you in regards to moral clarity and values - or is she only pious and virtuous when you are watching??
> 
> Those are critical factors in how you should view and deal with this as those are two completely different contexts and paradigms.


It’s either she has thrown off all good judgment at two bachelorette parties, or her mind is slipping. This is not something that she does on a day-to-day basis she’s a very good person to me and to others and to her family.


----------



## oldshirt

drencrom said:


> Setting a reasonable rule like a couple has not business doing things like that shouldn't change whether they are 20 or 60. It might be one thing if she did it once and realized, "ya, I'm not doing that again"...but she obviously liked it and wants to break that rule again.


OK let's try to meet in the middle here. 

Let's say that now she does want to be a party girl and go to strippers with 20somethings and take pictures of men peeing at the urinal. 

What I and a number of the other posters are saying is that this is something that either needs to be brought to the negotiation table for discussion and perhaps a reevaluation and amendment of the rules. 

At that point he can either reaffirm his original stance or agree to some kind of compromise or amendment there of. 

Or he can opt out and say that being with someone into that isn't for him. 

And if she refuses to discuss it and is just going to do whatever it is that she is going to do - he can again, opt out and pack his bags and leave her to her pictures of urinals and take her shot with hot male strippers and see if she can find a Granny Hunter. 

This is really about him and his choice going forward. she has already made some of her choices. The ball is in his court now.


----------



## thunderchad

Its not good to break a rule but are you telling me in the past 30 or however many years you never saw a video or picture of another naked woman? Never looked at porn? Never jerked it? Never did anything she probably wouldn't like?


----------



## oldshirt

1Adam12 said:


> It’s either she has thrown off all good judgment at two bachelorette parties, or her mind is slipping. This is not something that she does on a day-to-day basis she’s a very good person to me and to others and to her family.


OK, now we at least have at least got that info. 

And since you brought up the question of her mind slipping, then that begs the follow up question of has she recently shown other instances of irrational or grossly irresponsible thought and action?

Has she left the house to go shopping or something while leaving a pot of soup on the stove with the burners going? Has she ran out of gas in the car while going to a friends house because it didn't dawn on her the car may need gas? Has she come home without her phone or her purse and has no idea where she may have left it? Has she gone into the city to run an errand and then called you to ask you where it was she was supposed to go or asking you how to get back home? 

I'm not talking about not being able to find her keys in the house, everyone does that after 55. 

I'm not about irresponsible and potentially dangerous things that she would otherwise never do. 

If the answer to any of those is yes, then she may need to be evaluated. 

But if the answer is no and she is otherwise perfectly responsible and cognisant of her surroundings and situations, then she simply wanted to party it up with the girls and act a fool and doesn't want to be held accountable for it.


----------



## Talker67

1Adam12 said:


> It’s either she has thrown off all good judgment at two bachelorette parties, *or her mind is slipping*. This is not something that she does on a day-to-day basis she’s a very good person to me and to others and to her family.


i have some personal experience with relatives going batshit crazy. it might be that she has some sort of multiple personality stuff going on, that is being exacerbated by her age.


----------



## thunderchad

I'm not blaming you at all but do you think you are still sexually exciting to your wife? You kind of seem uptight and possibly a little boring. Do you still have passionate sex with her on a frequent basis? Maybe she's looking for excitement that's missing. Try some new things.


----------



## oldshirt

Talker67 said:


> i have some personal experience with relatives going batshit crazy. it might be that she has some sort of multiple personality stuff going on, that is being exacerbated by her age.


If that is true, then it is going to manifest in additional ways beside giving a stripper a dollar in his g-string. 

She's going to have other incidents and other behavioral anomalies besides patting a stripper on his tush. See my post #193 for possible examples.


----------



## 1Adam12

thunderchad said:


> Its not good to break a rule but are you telling me in the past 30 or however many years you never saw a video or picture of another naked woman? Never looked at porn? Never jerked it? Never did anything she probably wouldn't like?


I guess that’s the answer I’m looking for. This whole post was not about shock, but was about a question of how women differ in their likes and thoughts from men.


----------



## thunderchad

1Adam12 said:


> I guess that’s the answer I’m looking for. This whole post was not about shock, but was about a question of how women differ in their likes and thoughts from men.


I'm glad that's the answer you were looking for but you still didn't answer the question. Have you ever done anything I mentioned or anything your wife wouldn't appreciate? If so, I don't think you can blame her too much. Men and women are very similar in some ways, very different in others.


----------



## ElOtro

thunderchad said:


> Its not good to break a rule but are you telling me in the past 30 or however many years you never saw a video or picture of another naked woman? Never looked at porn? Never jerked it? Never did anything she probably wouldn't like?


" you never saw a video or picture of another naked woman? Never looked at porn? Never jerked it? "
We saw together some mainstream movies that, as part of a wider pertinent story, involved sometimes naked women and men.
Not exactly "of" a naked one as only / main purpose.
About porn, not while in a relationship.

"Never did anything she probably wouldn't like?"
Of course, yes.
Not once related to another woman.


----------



## Diana7

drencrom said:


> I agree, but she basically told him to shut up about it and not acknowledging his feelings about it.
> 
> @1Adam12 What do YOU want to do? We've heard you agree with assessments, but haven't told us what you want to do or what you plan to do.


From what he has said he will do nothing.


----------



## 1Adam12

oldshirt said:


> OK, now we at least have at least got that info.
> 
> And since you brought up the question of her mind slipping, then that begs the follow up question of has she recently shown other instances of irrational or grossly irresponsible thought and action?
> 
> Has she left the house to go shopping or something while leaving a pot of soup on the stove with the burners going? Has she ran out of gas in the car while going to a friends house because it didn't dawn on her the car may need gas? Has she come home without her phone or her purse and has no idea where she may have left it? Has she gone into the city to run an errand and then called you to ask you where it was she was supposed to go or asking you how to get back home?
> 
> I'm not talking about not being able to find her keys in the house, everyone does that after 55.
> 
> I'm not about irresponsible and potentially dangerous things that she would otherwise never do.
> 
> If the answer to any of those is yes, then she may need to be evaluated.
> 
> But if the answer is no and she is otherwise perfectly responsible and cognisant of her surroundings and situations, then she simply wanted to party it up with the girls and act a fool and doesn't want to be held accountable for it.


I agree her mind is likely not slipping, she wanted a moment or two without me or anything judging her. I could use the same.


----------



## oldshirt

1Adam12 said:


> I guess that’s the answer I’m looking for. This whole post was not about shock, but was about a question of how women differ in their likes and thoughts from men.


@1Adam12 is your question really about women differ from men in their thoughts and likes, or is it more about how women's thoughts and likes differ from what YOU thought your WIFE'S thoughts and likes were?

Were you really wanting to know if women dig male strippers and view their night out with the girls differently than how they would view a guy's night out at the strippers (they do) 

Or is this really about that some of your images and assumptions and view of your wife and her sense of purity and virtue was challenged? 

Is this really about wanting to know if the boys and the girls are different? Or is it about feeling uneasy that the girls may be more similar than what you're really comfortable with? 

You don't have to actually that for me or anyone else. But I do think it's real important that before you take any kind of action or say anything to her, that you at least do some soul searching and search your feelings and identify and acknowledge to yourself what it is that you are upset about and concerned about. 

Are you upset that she gave a dollar to stripper and probably tried to sneak a peak down his wiener sock? Or are you upset that she said she was going one place and then txt you as she was walking in the door?

Are you upset she made it clear that she didn't want YOU going to strippers but then did it herself 36 years later? Are you upset that you have toe'd the line for 36 years and then she went out and had fun and frivolity?

Are you concerned that she actually wants to be with one of those guys? 

Are you concerned that she no longer finds you desirable? 

Are you upset she supported your daughter in this kind of behavior? 

Are you concerned there is more to the story that what you are aware of? 

And if you are just simply disgusted and grossed out by her behavior and have simply lost a lot of esteem and respect and faith in her - at least admit that and acknowledge it to yourself. 

You are entitled to your feelings and your thoughts and concerns etc. They're yours to own. You have a right to them. 

And if it is effecting your relationship with her, you have a right and perhaps even a duty to be upfront and honest about it with her. If she doesn't want to deal with it or hear it, that is on her. 

In the end, it's up to YOU on whether you can accept and live with this or not. If you can't, that is on her as well. I have the feeling she knew that you would not be cool with getting down with strippers before this all went down.


----------



## oldshirt

1Adam12 said:


> I agree her mind is likely not slipping, she wanted a moment or two without me or anything judging her. I could use the same.


None of us WANT to be judged for the dumb stuff we do. 

We are judged every moment of every day for our actions anyway whether we like it or not. 

You have a right to your feelings. Just because she doesn't want to be judged for her actions doesn't make her free from the consequences of them.


----------



## SRCSRC

I reread your posts just now. I find the first incident rather perplexing and much more serious. The details you have provided are somewhat sketchy. I realize there is a double standard, but if a man entered a women's restroom and took pictures of ladies sitting on the potty he would be arrested and most likely convicted of being a sexual predator. How many men did she follow into the restroom? Did she take pictures of their private parts? Did any of them pose? Was there any other interaction with the men? How long was she in there? Was she drunk? Did she converse with any of them? Did she see any of them later? What happened to the photos? Don't believe her story as to what she did with them if they are not available. Did any of her girlfriends participate in her activity? What was their involvement? I would talk to them separately.

Demand the photos. I would not let this rest at all. What she did is crazy ****, especially given her pious nature. Threaten to demand a polygraph if she doesn't cough up more information. Don't let it rest. Something stinks. BTW, do you have free access to her phone and all social media accounts? I am not saying that you necessarily open up an investigation as to what your wife has been up to, but if she is secretive in any manner regarding these platforms I would be concerned.

As far as the second incident is concerned, my main beef would be the hypocritical nature of your wife. From your description, both of you were quite aware that the boundaries established early in the marriage were still in effect.

Certainly, no more girls' night out, trips out of town without you, or other such activities where she just might again decide to cross established boundaries. Keep your guard up.


----------



## SunCMars

Diana7 said:


> From what he has said he will do nothing.


No..

From this point forward he will assess her words and her future behavior.
He will be more observant.

She will be under the looking glass, for some time.
Maybe, forever.

There is one thing, that he now knows......

His wife is a sexual being.
A long repressed one, for sure.



_L-_


----------



## sokillme

Cynthia said:


> Also, as someone else mentioned, I'd be very concerned about her boundaries now. Who's to say that she wouldn't have an affair if her boundaries have become so loose? This has to be properly addressed or the marriage is in serious danger. Again, no punishment, but certainly setting some real boundaries.
> 
> That whole thing with following men into the restroom sounds very rude and childish. What on earth was she thinking!?


Who's to say she hasn't. It's not like we haven't seen a pattern of supposedly good religious people really just using that as a cover on here all the time. I always am skeptical when peoples behavior changes on a dime, usually it's more like they were really good at hiding it.


----------



## sokillme

jlg07 said:


> SO the bag on their junk makes a difference? What if there was a video of them doing that to your WIFE? AND she had a big old smile on her face -- does that bag make it all ok?
> 
> What do you think her soon-to-be Husband would think about that? You think he is ok with it?


Imagine marrying a women who just weeks before acting out getting tea-bagged by some random stranger leather or not and people circulating pictures of that? You would have to have a really low opinion of yourself to marry that person. Oh hell no.


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> @1Adam12 These are really good questions and deserve more than what is taking place on this thread currently. These are things that probably deserve some actual investigation and study by actual social scientists rather than people on an internet marriage forum, many of which are here due to infidelity and tend to see everything through that lens.
> 
> You would also be better off posting these questions in another thread without the details of your wife's activities.
> 
> There really is kind of a weird phenomenon with women and male strippers and even more specifically Bachelorette party/male stripper. What has happened with your wife and daughter is NOT at all unique. Every weekend there are good, dutiful, church-going wives and mothers and girlfriends etc that go to male strippers and it is like they are given a free pass to act out in ways they would never do in real life.
> 
> .... and everyone acts like it is OK. Like I said, it's like all rules of social and sexual order are set aside and everyone is given a free pass. Mothers can go out with daughters and rub their faces in some guy's junk. Grown, middle age corporate executives can feel up some guy's buns while he gyrates his ass in her face with just a thong going down his buttcrack covering up his bunghole.
> 
> Where else on the planet is this ok???? But yet, not only is it socially acceptable, it is even expected if not egged on and encouraged. And when everyone leaves, they all go home as if nothing has happened and it's all expected to be accepted without question or repercussion.
> 
> And yes there is a definate double standard. While men may also get away with a little more at a bachelor party with a female stripper than he would if it were some other chick in regular life,, there is more of a stigma of men behaving badly at the strip joints than with women.
> 
> A lot of higher end female strip clubs have very strict rules about touching the dancers or getting handsy with them. I honestly don't know if such rules even exist or are even in place when it is a lady's night at a club with male strippers. If there are rules, I doubt if they are enforced at all.
> 
> Some of that I can understand as these guys are very fit and strong and will be able to defend himself if some 125 lb woman is getting a little too aggressive with him.
> 
> But my point to all of this is there is a very definate double standard and male stripper events do offer women some kind of free pass to what would normally be unacceptable in normal society.
> 
> On some of your other questions, these are just my own humble opinions based on what I have seen and read in the world and my own experiences and things relayed to me by other people.
> 
> - I got tarred and feathered in some other threads for saying this but I don't care, this is what I have learned in my almost 58 years on Planet Earth...... but I don't think your wife or your daughter or anyone else "changed" when they got with the strippers. It was always there within them. They were just in an environment where it was acceptable and expected to behave that way. Your wife may be a good, God-fearing Christian and she may bake pies for Ladies Aid and help stock the food pantry for the homeless,,,, but she is still a sexual being that appreciates the physique of an exceptionally fit and handsome man. Devotion to Jesus doesn't eliminate that. She's not really a mom in that situation. She is just another chick getting off on a hunky dude(s).
> 
> - she didn't "forget" to tell you. She knew you wouldn't like it or give your stamp of approval ahead of time. And a part of her didn't want you to think less of her or think that she wasn't as pious and pure as what you think.... so she simply tried to get away with as much as she could. Are there things you don't know all about? yes. But did she actually have any kind of actual sexual contact or interaction with any of these guys? other than copping a feel of his abs or patting his tush, probably not. This was a room full of horny, screaming 20-somethings handing out money, he had other things to do than mess with a 60 year old.
> 
> - As far as the kids and the moral standards goes, I'll offer this- Mom was still there. It's kind of like the parents that let their kids have a beer or two in the house so they can make sure they don't drive off and kill somebody. We can all argue over the legalities and ethics of that decision, but parents will allow some things under they eye that they won't condone or support out of sight. I am not saying she was right in having your daughter rub her face into this guy's junk,, but I am hoping that she would have intervened if she was getting into his car to drive off into the night with him. .....I'm hoping that at least. I assume she would. Probably.
> 
> - Make no mistake, they WANTED these dude's attention!! Nobody was duped here. Nobody was caught offguard. They wanted to party and act the fool. They wanted these hunky guys to rub their junk into their boobies. And like I said above, for some reason, the bachelorette party/male stripper scenario gets a free pass and a get-out-of-jail-free card. They get a time out from society to put the normal codes of conduct on the shelf for awhile during that party. And yes, most think it is fun. They are not going to tell you that when you call them out on it. They will blame-shift and say it was the "other" women that were getting off on it and that they were just along with the crowd and didn't like it that much. But that ain't true, they were digging it just as much as everyone else.
> 
> I'm not saying any of this is moral, or ethical or right. I'm just saying how it is.
> 
> It will be up to you on what you can tolerate and what you cannot in terms of behavior of your wife.
> 
> If this was two times in her entire life that she did something kind of racy like this, that is one thing.
> 
> If this is part of a pattern of her being dismissive and disrespectful towards you and disregards your boundaries and comfort zones etc,, that is a whole other ball of wax.





oldshirt said:


> Ouch!
> 
> I'm actually a dude 😯


It was kind of a chick-like answer from you though.





I kid.


----------



## sokillme

1Adam12 said:


> I figured that out after I sent this post reply, but the sentiments sounded like my wife and counselors point of view so I left it that way. Let me say instead you’re a sensitive male.


Wow! Now he knows he was off base!!! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂


----------



## sokillme

1Adam12 said:


> I guess that’s the answer I’m looking for. This whole post was not about shock, but was about a question of how women differ in their likes and thoughts from men.


They don't in this respect, they are just a raunchy and sneaky as guys. They like sex and the idea of having sex with no consequences just as much as guys do. This idea that they are demure and more proper is a myth. Now there are some with a high moral standard just like there are some men who are.

But everyone likes hot naked people of whatever potential gender you would want to have sex with. The fairer sex idea is ********.

If you don't want to take my advice about detaching here is better, tell your wife you are going together to see what these strip joints are all about and then take your wife with you the the raunchiest female one in the area. Let her see you tip them, sit in the room while you get a lap dance, the whole thing. I bet that will put this whole thing to rest real quick. And don't back down bring her.

I am not as "sensitive" as oldshirt though. 😁


----------



## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> It was kind of a chick answer from you though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kid.





sokillme said:


> Wow! Now he knows he was off base!!! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂


If the proper male response is to immediately assume a 60 year old mother that has been married for 36 years of faithful, productive marriage was getting gang banged in a club restroom because she slipped a dollar bill into some strippers g-string even though there are no reported facts or evidence of that is presented; and I don't advocate thumping one's chest and sending her back to the kitchen or kicking her to the curb because for two nights out of 60 years she didn't do something I was completely content with..... well then I guess I will have to take the chick perspective. 

If the only options I have are jumping to conclusions of "at least a handjob" (which one poster literally stated) and responding as if an actual sexual hook up occurred even though no evidence of such has been reported, or trying to apply some common sense and realism that this was a bunch of drunk and silly chicks out on the town doing some sophomoric things that happen every single weekend across the land....then I'll have to take the female perspective if only females are able to evaluate situations based on the information presented. 

I was always brought up that women were the emotional ones that would make knee-jerk reactions and assumptions based on their "feels" and that men were the more objective and stoic creatures that tried to look at the facts and not be swayed by their initial emotions,, but I guess I got that all wrong huh?


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> If the proper male response is to immediately assume a 60 year old mother that has been married for 36 years of faithful, productive marriage was getting gang banged in a club restroom because she slipped a dollar bill into some strippers g-string even though there are no reported facts or evidence of that is presented; and I don't advocate thumping one's chest and sending her back to the kitchen or kicking her to the curb because for two nights out of 60 years she didn't do something I was completely content with..... well then I guess I will have to take the chick perspective.
> 
> If the only options I have are jumping to conclusions of "at least a handjob" (which one poster literally stated) and responding as if an actual sexual hook up occurred even though no evidence of such has been reported, or trying to apply some common sense and realism that this was a bunch of drunk and silly chicks out on the town doing some sophomoric things that happen every single weekend across the land....then I'll have to take the female perspective if only females are able to evaluate situations based on the information presented.
> 
> I was always brought up that women were the emotional ones that would make knee-jerk reactions and assumptions based on their "feels" and that men were the more objective and stoic creatures that tried to look at the facts and not be swayed by their initial emotions,, but I guess I got that all wrong huh?


First of all I was kidding because that was hilarious and particularly off brand reaction to one of your posts.

I personally think the proper response is consequences proportionate to the ******** your spouse is shoveling at you. 

I really like my idea of him taking her to a female strip club, I think this is exactly what I would do. That way she can watch him and make sure he is on his best behavior, and she also has to watch him as he ogles the young naked women and at least he wouldn't be lying about it. See how she likes it. 

Let her squirm a little bit and then go home. I bet that will take the fun out of it for her.


----------



## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> I really like my idea of him taking her to a female strip club, I think this is exactly what I would do. That way she can watch him and make sure he is on his best behavior, and she also has to watch him as he ogles the young naked women and at least he wouldn't be lying about it. See how she likes it.
> 
> Let her squirm a little bit and then go home. I bet that will take the fun out of it for her.


I will concede this - IF..... and I repeat, IF part of the reason he is upset about this is because deep down he was wanting to go to strippers and was intrigued by what might go on there but the reason he didn't was because he was biting his lip and gutting it out for 36 years since she told him to church instead of strip joints,,,,,, then I'd say yeah, it's high time to reevaluate those 36 year old "rules." 

And y'never know, maybe instead of squirming and learning her lesson and taking the fun out of it, maybe she'll dig it and they can go home and do their own strip tease and teabagging  

But I doubt that's the case at all. I'm willing to bet he genuinely finds the idea of strippers and strip joints etc distasteful and he would not be true to himself in going there. It would just be game playing and revenge at best. 

In reality it would probably make him feel dirty and out of place and he would just look like a creepy old man and creep out the girls and he would look even more uptight and like a fuddy duddy and he would be even more pssed off and she would see him as a mean, deranged A-hole. 

I think he needs to be true to himself. If he finds the idea of strippers disgusting and distasteful, own it. Let her know what he thinks of it and what he thinks of her for doing it. If this is a real issue for him and it has actually hurt his esteem for her and shaken his confidence and esteem in their marriage, she should not shelter her from the ramifications of her actions.


----------



## Young at Heart

BigDaddyNY said:


> You seem to have a different understanding of tea bagging than I do. Tea bagging involves a man putting his testicles on the face or in the mouth of another person. Honestly, out of this whole story I'm most concerned about the daughter and her actions. I would be as upset or more upset with my daughter over that than my church going wife putting bills in a g-string. I suspect the mom just wanted to fit in. She still made bad choices, but this was all set up by someone else that lacked any morals or self control. If my fiancé allowed herself to be tea bagged it would be over. She cheated, plain and simple. *Would anyone here not call touching another man's genital, in any way shape or form, cheating?*


I really agree with you about the daughter's behavior. I also found the daughter's behavior counter to my thoughts and personal values. But hey, there are people who have open marriages and there are people who are swingers. There are a lot of couples that have definitions of sex and shades of monogamy than I can't comprehend. It is really between her and her husband. But as I said, I would tell her that she needs to tell her future husband exactly what she did prior to marrying him.

Yes, I do think that the mom probably feels those two hen party incidents were not her proudest moments. But, not sure if her H knows exactly what his W did. Some marriages can withstand a lot more than two extremely brief mistakes in 36 years. Still, the H and his wife really do need to talk, set some behavioral boundaries, and work on forgiving and closeness, assuming the want the marriage to continue. This should be a heck of a wake-up call that some things need to be addressed in their relationship.

*{Editorial correction! "the definition of teabagging that 1 Adam12 saw in his daughter's party video is much different than what I was thinking and possibly you did as well. }*
Teabagging (from what I understand) involves a lot more tongue, sucking and head/mouth wiggling stimulation from the open mouth, much more than just remaining star fish passive. If it really was star fish, passive, open mouth, it really doesn't sound much more exciting than doing weight lifting squats at the gym with someone from the opposite sex watching you. But to each their own. And if that is what happened, probably better his scrotum than his penis.

I don't think I cheated on my wife, when I had a lump on my testicles checked out at a urologist clinic. Although, I do have to admit that the cute young lady medical technician who lubed up my scrotum, held my testicles in place in her hand and then ran an ultrasound probe over them to take pictures/readings for the doctor to examine, was quite a distraction. But I still don't think that was cheating. To distract my mind we talk during the procedure. It turns out that one of her best friends was dating my youngest son at the time, which also helped my mind from going in the wrong direction. But of course that happened in a medical clinic I was referred to by my primary care physician and not a strip club. Not sure which location would have cost more for a complete exam. At least at the medical clinic all I had to spend was the co-pay. (Turned out to be a clogged duct and no big deal)


----------



## Young at Heart

1Adam12 said:


> I meant they acted this out. Strippers keep a bag on their junk.


Thank you for the clarification! I have never been to a male strip club, but you got to see the video of what happened.

My definition was based on youthful stories and shared experiences during college.


----------



## Young at Heart

drencrom said:


> Setting a reasonable rule like a couple has not business doing things like that shouldn't change whether they are 20 or 60. It might be one thing if she did it once and realized, "ya, I'm not doing that again"...but she obviously liked it and wants to break that rule again......
> 
> So I submit to 1Adam12, if you don't like it *and she won't talk about it*, won't come clean, and basically tells you to just shut up about it, unless you divorce her over it, you need to just live your life and not worry about what she thinks about it.


There are couples out there where some wives probably don't object to hubby going to a strip club, as long as he keeps "it" in his pants and doesn't spend more than his weekly mad money allowance. After all it is sort of like outsourcing the foreplay for hubby. He gets all aroused and she gets to play with that when he gets home. Other wives are much more serious.

Just about every week on TAM I read about some sex starved husband whose wife say he has a free pass to go have sex with someone else, or the reverse.

I think that boundaries should be discussed between a couple, but know that they often are not. In the marriage counseling my wife and I have had, boundary discussion was something the marriage counselors bought up. Far too many are implied by one of the partners. Also when you feel a boundary has been broken, you really need to discuss it and come to an understanding of what your new boundary is.


----------



## Young at Heart

sokillme said:


> Imagine marrying a women who just weeks before acting out getting tea-bagged by some random stranger leather or not and people circulating pictures of that? You would have to have a really low opinion of yourself to marry that person. Oh hell no.


I have a hard time understanding young people. Some friends are kind of horrified that during Covid, their daughter has moved in with a guy since they aren't comfortable going out on dates. The are buying a house and decided to get married since they are living together and it will make a home loan easier.

I suspect that there are people who go to wild sex parties, that wouldn't care if there were photos of a hen party.

I wouldn't be comfortable but as long as there is honesty in a marriage, love, and shared boundaries, who am I to say.


----------



## Talker67

oldshirt said:


> Ouch!
> 
> I'm actually a dude 😯


once again, there is a place where you can list male/female on your profile.

why don't people bother to do that? screen names are NOT obvious.


----------



## Talker67

ok so we all made a bunch of assumptions on the OPs posts.

kind of reviewing this mess of stuff....the only thing obvious is that his wife is hornier and more sexually adventurous than he thought she was. 

Did she suddenly change? or has she been a bit hypocritical all along their marriage? who knows. but i still think it is a good opportunity to step things up in the bedroom, and to try new sexual things with her...she obviously needs some of that.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

SRCSRC said:


> I reread your posts just now. I find the first incident rather perplexing and much more serious. The details you have provided are somewhat sketchy. I realize there is a double standard, but if a man entered a women's restroom and took pictures of ladies sitting on the potty he would be arrested and most likely convicted of being a sexual predator. How many men did she follow into the restroom? Did she take pictures of their private parts? Did any of them pose? Was there any other interaction with the men? How long was she in there? Was she drunk? Did she converse with any of them? Did she see any of them later? What happened to the photos? Don't believe her story as to what she did with them if they are not available. Did any of her girlfriends participate in her activity? What was their involvement? I would talk to them separately.
> 
> Demand the photos. I would not let this rest at all. What she did is crazy ****, especially given her pious nature. Threaten to demand a polygraph if she doesn't cough up more information. Don't let it rest. Something stinks. BTW, do you have free access to her phone and all social media accounts? I am not saying that you necessarily open up an investigation as to what your wife has been up to, but if she is secretive in any manner regarding these platforms I would be concerned.
> 
> As far as the second incident is concerned, my main beef would be the hypocritical nature of your wife. From your description, both of you were quite aware that the boundaries established early in the marriage were still in effect.
> 
> Certainly, no more girls' night out, trips out of town without you, or other such activities where she just might again decide to cross established boundaries. Keep your guard up.


Keep your guard up, be aware, all that but consider this.
You and she are older and things change over decades, now as you and she have more time alone why don't you enjoy the fact she may loosen up in the bedroom and you two's sex life may enjoy new things now, and try news things with her even some kink perhaps.

A hot and heavy sex life between long time M partners is a great thing. Take advantage of empty nesting. Many do. Many say sex gets much better and less stressful at this time of a couples life.

As soon as you're perfect all the time than expect others to be. Other than that here you are, move ahead.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Young at Heart said:


> I really agree with you about the daughter's behavior. I also found the daughter's behavior counter to my thoughts and personal values. But hey, there are people who have open marriages and there are people who are swingers. There are a lot of couples that have definitions of sex and shades of monogamy than I can't comprehend. It is really between her and her husband. But as I said, I would tell her that she needs to tell her future husband exactly what she did prior to marrying him.
> 
> Yes, I do think that the mom probably feels those two hen party incidents were not her proudest moments. But, not sure if her H knows exactly what his W did. Some marriages can withstand a lot more than two extremely brief mistakes in 36 years. Still, the H and his wife really do need to talk, set some behavioral boundaries, and work on forgiving and closeness, assuming the want the marriage to continue. This should be a heck of a wake-up call that some things need to be addressed in their relationship.
> 
> *{Editorial correction! "the definition of teabagging that 1 Adam12 saw in his daughter's party video is much different than what I was thinking and possibly you did as well. }*
> Teabagging (from what I understand) involves a lot more tongue, sucking and head/mouth wiggling stimulation from the open mouth, much more than just remaining star fish passive. If it really was star fish, passive, open mouth, it really doesn't sound much more exciting than doing weight lifting squats at the gym with someone from the opposite sex watching you. But to each their own. And if that is what happened, probably better his scrotum than his penis.
> 
> I don't think I cheated on my wife, when I had a lump on my testicles checked out at a urologist clinic. Although, I do have to admit that the cute young lady medical technician who lubed up my scrotum, held my testicles in place in her hand and then ran an ultrasound probe over them to take pictures/readings for the doctor to examine, was quite a distraction. But I still don't think that was cheating. To distract my mind we talk during the procedure. It turns out that one of her best friends was dating my youngest son at the time, which also helped my mind from going in the wrong direction. But of course that happened in a medical clinic I was referred to by my primary care physician and not a strip club. Not sure which location would have cost more for a complete exam. At least at the medical clinic all I had to spend was the co-pay. (Turned out to be a clogged duct and no big deal)


A med tech handling your genitals is a long way from a stripper rubbing his balls in your face. For one thing, the intent matters. One is medical the other is solely for sexual excitement. 

Do strip clubs take copayment? lol


----------



## LATERILUS79

I apologize if this has been asked before. I’ve only mildly scanned through this thread.

the second daughter really didn’t want your wife at the bachelorette party, right?

why is that? What does she know that would make her not want her mother there?


----------



## ccpowerslave

LATERILUS79 said:


> What does she know that would make her not want her mother there?


🥜
⚽ 🏀


----------



## seadoug105

1Adam12 said:


> I agree her mind is likely not slipping, she wanted a moment or two without me or anything judging her. I could use the same.


Something tells me you won’t be allowed it.

Listening to your descriptions of limitations she put on you as a couple and by default you.. when it comes to her religiosity is it always prevalent or is it more prevalent when judging others and/or their actions?


----------



## Diana7

LATERILUS79 said:


> I apologize if this has been asked before. I’ve only mildly scanned through this thread.
> 
> the second daughter really didn’t want your wife at the bachelorette party, right?
> 
> why is that? What does she know that would make her not want her mother there?


Its not that common for mums to be invited. Its usually friends. At least in my experience. I was surprised to be invited to my daughter's. Pleased but surprised.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Diana7 said:


> Its not that common for mums to be invited. Its usually friends. At least in my experience. I was surprised to be invited to my daughter's. Pleased but surprised.


Diana, I get what you are saying. I was leaning more towards the area of, “does the second daughter know something…. Like her mother start doing extra unsavory things in these situations. More than what the husband already knows?”


----------



## Talker67

LATERILUS79 said:


> Diana, I get what you are saying. I was leaning more towards the area of, “does the second daughter know something…. Like her mother start doing extra unsavory things in these situations. More than what the husband already knows?”


yep, the excuse was "the party is too crowded to invite you, mom". but she was having none of that. 

it might be what i suggested earlier on, that mom is just a "bad drunk", and the 2nd daughter did not want to deal with that drama


----------



## Evinrude58

Talker67 said:


> yep, the excuse was "the party is too crowded to invite you, mom". but she was having none of that.
> 
> it might be what i suggested earlier on, that mom is just a "bad drunk", and the 2nd daughter did not want to deal with that drama


I agree. And to further speculate, I suspect the daughter didn’t want to show out with her buds with a bunch of teabagging strippers, because either she was uncomfortable with her mom seeing all that, or your suspicion that she got drunk and had way too much fun with strippers in the previous sister’s party and was embarrassed by mom’s behavior.

I think whatever the speculation is, ol’ mom likes strippers and wild parties, but doesn’t want old hubby involved with any of it.

If she’s in her 60’s and been a good wife all this time, maybe he CAN just ignore it and continue on. The problem I see is that the wife ignores his feelings, isn’t following her rules set in place for him, disrespects him, etc——
So OP is going to have to determine what he’s willing to do in order to stop the behavior, or just knuckle up and accept the Poo sammich like a good little hubby should (in his wife’s mind).

In my mind, a lesson needs to be taught by OP exposing her to the same disrespect and worry that he’s been treated to, so she will know how it feels at least. Although that may not stop her, since she clearly is good at eating her stripper porridge while denying the same of her partner (although he doesn’t want it anyway).


----------



## happyhusband0005

oldshirt said:


> If the proper male response is to immediately assume a 60 year old mother that has been married for 36 years of faithful, productive marriage was getting gang banged in a club restroom because she slipped a dollar bill into some strippers g-string even though there are no reported facts or evidence of that is presented; and I don't advocate thumping one's chest and sending her back to the kitchen or kicking her to the curb because for two nights out of 60 years she didn't do something I was completely content with..... well then I guess I will have to take the chick perspective.
> 
> If the only options I have are jumping to conclusions of "at least a handjob" (which one poster literally stated) and responding as if an actual sexual hook up occurred even though no evidence of such has been reported, or trying to apply some common sense and realism that this was a bunch of drunk and silly chicks out on the town doing some sophomoric things that happen every single weekend across the land....then I'll have to take the female perspective if only females are able to evaluate situations based on the information presented.
> 
> I was always brought up that women were the emotional ones that would make knee-jerk reactions and assumptions based on their "feels" and that men were the more objective and stoic creatures that tried to look at the facts and not be swayed by their initial emotions,, but I guess I got that all wrong huh?


Sometimes a dollar slipped into a g-string is just a dollar slipped into a g-string.


----------



## 1Adam12

IMO These younger ladies had gone to a bachelorette party for another in the group (future SIL), did the strip club, and they knew they were going to go to what daughter# 1 did not go to.


----------



## Talker67

happyhusband0005 said:


> Sometimes a dollar slipped into a g-string is just a dollar slipped into a g-string.


Thank you, Sigmund.

we all need to remember that.

maybe she just had too many bills in her purse, and needed to stuff them somewhere.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Talker67 said:


> Thank you, Sigmund.
> 
> we all need to remember that.
> 
> maybe she just had too many bills in her purse, and needed to stuff them somewhere.


That makes no sense.


----------



## ConanHub

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That makes no sense.


He was making fun of the sentiment that this "church" lady, touching stripper penis wasn't a big deal or more than it appears.

I personally don't care if there was more. Her behavior as presented would be too ridiculous and disrespectful for me to do anything but walk away from her mess and see what she was going to do, wether she didn't want to work on the marriage she damaged or try to repair it and convince me with whatever reasons to even still consider staying with someone not grown up enough to even follow her own rules, the ball would be in her court. She's the one that screwed up.


----------



## Talker67

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That makes no sense.


"sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar" -- sigmund freud

from back in the day, where people misinterpretted freud's physchological teachings, and thought that people who liked cigars had a phallus fixation.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Talker67 said:


> "sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar" -- sigmund freud
> 
> from back in the day, where people misinterpretted freud's physchological teachings, and thought that people who liked cigars had a phallus fixation.


Knew the Sigmund Freud analogy.


----------



## Talker67

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Knew the Sigmund Freud analogy.


then explain your comment!


----------



## Anastasia6

1Adam12 said:


> I guess that’s the answer I’m looking for. This whole post was not about shock, but was about a question of how women differ in their likes and thoughts from men.


Well mostly you are getting male answers. So not sure you are seeing a difference.

Let me first state I am a woman. I am over 50 married 28 years.

I would most likely not participate in any of the things you have described. But I could see if my daughter had a bacherlor party getting roped in to trying to have fun with the young ones. I would not approve of my daughter being teabagged. I would not follow men into a restroom.

I might go along with a strip show. Probably not but I really want to be part of my daughters specials days and since it's her day I might. I would have a conversation with my husband before I decided to go. We in general wouldn't do that kind of thing. However, around these parts the strip shows are not naked, they are to music, there is no handjobs, blow jobs or any of that non sense being spouted here. So it would be visual only. 

That being said women in generally don't tick like men. You have people asking if you still sexually excite your wife and acting like she wants to give some random man a blow job or hand job. UM... No. I seriously doubt she has a desire to do either. I also doubt she wants anything from the male dancer as well. While she might even appreciate the view, most women don't want to have sex based on looks.. That is a male response.

I think it is time of a conversation about boundaries and more important about communication.
I think she should acknowledge your hurt feelings and express what made her go along. You may need to find some understanding as to what is going on in her mind. 
You two need an NEW understanding as to what is and is not acceptable for you. You may want to be preemptive and discuss possible 3rd bachelor party with her.

Did it occur to you that she might have been VERY hurt about being left out of the 2nd and wanted so badly to fit in when she got the chance that she didn't really consider how you might have felt. This is her daughter who wants to be the old fuddy duddy who isn't invited to their own daughter's wedding events??? She may not have made any of these decisions based on male strippers or strip clubs or desire or lust as is implied. 

She may just have been desperate to be a part of her daughter wedding (hopefully a one time event). We are mothers. We might make dumb choices for those we love.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

ConanHub said:


> He was making fun of the sentiment that this "church" lady, touching stripper penis wasn't a big deal or more than it appears.
> 
> I personally don't care if there was more. Her behavior as presented would be too ridiculous and disrespectful for me to do anything but walk away from her mess and see what she was going to do, wether she didn't want to work on the marriage she damaged or try to repair it and convince me with whatever reasons to even still consider staying with someone not grown up enough to even follow her own rules, the ball would be in her court. She's the one that screwed up.


Yep, I did get the quote. My point is this older generation woman, approaching her last phases in life, made a mistake for sure but made a mistake perhaps in a moment of hey wtf, and really slipped yes, out with her daughter and perhaps thought well sh!t I'm not screwing anyone, nobody is stripping me to make me screw anyone, I'm going to just see what this about and jumped the shark.

Because the M has been great, many yrs of being the good woman, she had a moment and screwed up. If there weren't years of being the responsible role model behind her and the M I'd think different. Here she made a mistake at this age and with decades of being straight laced W.

I don't think it's as bad as being reported, in reality. She didn't fool around and have sex with others.

So he who is perfect let him cast the first stone.

Let the old W have a whoops [email protected] moment. It's the H that's embellishing the story tremendously imho so there's more sympathy for himself, and get more mileage.

That's just my two sense. I understand others may have different opinion but that's ok. Small minds and all that.

So I say cut the old woman a break.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Talker67 said:


> then explain your comment!


Because I choose too, because you may not have the same experience as older men or maybe just limited in life.

Yep, I did get the quote. My point is this older generation woman, approaching her last phases in life, made a mistake for sure but made a mistake perhaps in a moment of hey wtf, and really slipped yes, out with her daughter and perhaps thought well sh!t I'm not screwing anyone, nobody is stripping me to make me screw anyone, I'm going to just see what this about and jumped the shark.

Because the M has been great, many yrs of being the good woman, she had a moment and screwed up.

If there weren't years of being the responsible role model behind her and the M I'd think different. Here she made a mistake at this age and with decades of being straight laced W.

I don't think it's as bad as being reported, in reality. She didn't fool around and have sex with others.

So he who is perfect let him cast the first stone.

Let the old W have a whoops [email protected] moment. It's the H that's embellishing the story tremendously imho so there's more sympathy for himself, and get more mileage.

That's just my two sense. I understand others may have different opinion but that's ok. Small minds and all that.


----------



## Anastasia6

LATERILUS79 said:


> Diana, I get what you are saying. I was leaning more towards the area of, “does the second daughter know something…. Like her mother start doing extra unsavory things in these situations. More than what the husband already knows?”


More like her mom was the prude of the bunch. Who knows.


----------



## ConanHub

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Yep, I did get the quote. My point is this older generation woman, approaching her last phases in life, made a mistake for sure but made a mistake perhaps in a moment of hey wtf, and really slipped yes, out with her daughter and perhaps thought well sh!t I'm not screwing anyone, nobody is stripping me to make me screw anyone, I'm going to just see what this about and jumped the shark.
> 
> Because the M has been great, many yrs of being the good woman, she had a moment and screwed up. If there weren't years of being the responsible role model behind her and the M I'd think different. Here she made a mistake at this age and with decades of being straight laced W.
> 
> I don't think it's as bad as being reported, in reality. She didn't fool around and have sex with others.
> 
> So he who is perfect let him cast the first stone.
> 
> Let the old W have a whoops [email protected] moment. It's the H that's embellishing the story tremendously imho so there's more sympathy for himself, and get more mileage.
> 
> That's just my two sense. I understand others may have different opinion but that's ok. Small minds and all that.
> 
> So I say cut the old woman a break.


Hahahaha! No.

She didn't slip at all. She went full bore and broke her own established boundaries twice. Not a mistake or a slip at all.

Mrs. C is her age and we have similar boundaries.

OP's wife is ridiculous and apparently, married the right man to behave that way.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Anastasia6 said:


> Well mostly you are getting male answers. So not sure you are seeing a difference.
> 
> Let me first state I am a woman. I am over 50 married 28 years.
> 
> I would most likely not participate in any of the things you have described. But I could see if my daughter had a bacherlor party getting roped in to trying to have fun with the young ones. I would not approve of my daughter being teabagged. I would not follow men into a restroom.
> 
> I might go along with a strip show. Probably not but I really want to be part of my daughters specials days and since it's her day I might. I would have a conversation with my husband before I decided to go. We in general wouldn't do that kind of thing. However, around these parts the strip shows are not naked, they are to music, there is no handjobs, blow jobs or any of that non sense being spouted here. So it would be visual only.
> 
> That being said women in generally don't tick like men. You have people asking if you still sexually excite your wife and acting like she wants to give some random man a blow job or hand job. UM... No. I seriously doubt she has a desire to do either. I also doubt she wants anything from the male dancer as well. While she might even appreciate the view, most women don't want to have sex based on looks.. That is a male response.
> 
> I think it is time of a conversation about boundaries and more important about communication.
> I think she should acknowledge your hurt feelings and express what made her go along. You may need to find some understanding as to what is going on in her mind.
> You two need an NEW understanding as to what is and is not acceptable for you. You may want to be preemptive and discuss possible 3rd bachelor party with her.
> 
> Did it occur to you that she might have been VERY hurt about being left out of the 2nd and wanted so badly to fit in when she got the chance that she didn't really consider how you might have felt. This is her daughter who wants to be the old fuddy duddy who isn't invited to their own daughter's wedding events??? She may not have made any of these decisions based on male strippers or strip clubs or desire or lust as is implied.
> 
> She may just have been desperate to be a part of her daughter wedding (hopefully a one time event). We are mothers. We might make dumb choices for those we love.


Excellent. A sane response and excellently worded.


----------



## hamadryad

Young at Heart said:


> I don't think I cheated on my wife, when I had a lump on my testicles checked out at a urologist clinic. Although, I do have to admit that the cute young lady medical technician who lubed up my scrotum, held my testicles in place in her hand and then ran an ultrasound probe over them to take pictures/readings for the doctor to examine, was quite a distraction. But I still don't think that was cheating. To distract my mind we talk during the procedure. It turns out that one of her best friends was dating my youngest son at the time, which also helped my mind from going in the wrong direction. But of course that happened in a medical clinic I was referred to by my primary care physician and not a strip club. Not sure which


Did she at least give you the courtesy of a reach around?? That may change the dynamic... 😂


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

ConanHub said:


> Hahahaha! No.
> 
> She didn't slip at all. She went full bore and broke her own established boundaries twice. Not a mistake or a slip at all.
> 
> Mrs. C is her age and we have similar boundaries.
> 
> OP's wife is ridiculous and apparently, married the right man to behave that way.


So f#hk let's just all call her a wh0r&e, keep her far away from all children and small animals, lest she spread the diseases she must have caught from her daily slu!!y behavior. She's got to be this way everyday right? That's all I'm hearing.

OP, fk, just brand her face with an A, strip her naked and send her homeless into the world to hang out with her everyday a$$hole friends. Right? I mean she's showed her true stripes, right?

She's had to be a horrible W all these years, just waiting for the right time to be her real loose woman self, sleeping with postmen, delivery guys, construction workers men and women a dozen at a time.

OP she sure fooled you all these years. But you can rest assured, you'll make sure she gets hers. Maybe call your friends, she obviously wants to prance with naked people daily.

What I read is a bunch of self righteous a$$es. People who think their own excrement doesn't stink and their halo has never slipped, ever.

PS @ConanHub this rant isn't really at you, I thought i quoted talker67.

I just really am intolerant of people who think they've never had a moment, whatever it was, that they wish they hadn't done. F'n hypocrits.


----------



## Young at Heart

BigDaddyNY said:


> A med tech handling your genitals is a long way from a stripper rubbing his balls in your face. For one thing, the intent matters. One is medical the other is solely for sexual excitement.
> 
> Do strip clubs take copayment? lol


I agree, that is why I said it wasn't cheating. I think we actually agree about quite a bit. But you asked the question, so I answered it.

Your words were, ".....*Would anyone here not call touching another man's genital, in any way shape or form, cheating?*...." I was saying yes, there is someone here who has actually had a woman touch my genitals and not felt it was cheating on my wife. And she was totally relieved that it turned out to be nothing. I doubt that the young female medical technician thought it was cheating on her significant other. It was probably "just business" as I am sure was the way the male strippers felt about what happened at the hen party.

Since 1 Adam12 has explained his definition of "teabagging" based on what he saw his daughter do in the video, I feel it is much less troubling than what my imagination was. But when it comes to sex, my imagination does tent to run wild initially, until the rational part of my brain takes over. It was still inappropriate, but much more tame than I thought it was. And it I were her fiancee, I might be upset, but probably not enough to call off the wedding. If my wife of 50 years mouthed a male strippers "g-string/sock" I would probably shake my head, ask her how drunk she must have been and then had a long talk with her about mutual expectations on public behavior.

As picky as my health insurance is with claims, I doubt even if labeled with the "payable" (say alternate therapy massage) medical codes my insurance provider would find it "in network" let allow me to get away with just a copay. Then again, I don't have enough experience with strip clubs to know the full range of services offered or the forms of payment.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

BigDaddyNY said:


> A med tech handling your genitals is a long way from a stripper rubbing his balls in your face. For one thing, the intent matters. One is medical the other is solely for sexual excitement.
> 
> Do strip clubs take copayment? lol


I really doubt the whole thing happened to the extreme the OP and piled on embellishing is stating as 100% fact.

People just love to catch a church goer being imperfect. Seems to make their day. Idiots.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

BigDaddyNY said:


> A med tech handling your genitals is a long way from a stripper rubbing his balls in your face. For one thing, the intent matters. One is medical the other is solely for sexual excitement.
> 
> Do strip clubs take copayment? lol


That's for sure. When single and an emergency appendectomy the OR nurse shaved a lot of me professionally, yet handled the same areas while we dated for three months much differently.


----------



## Young at Heart

hamadryad said:


> Did she at least give you the courtesy of a reach around?? That may change the dynamic... 😂


LOL; Nope. On my back in one of those hospital gown open bottom things. I was reclining, so I could watch what was happening. She was gentle, but held them for effect, as her focus was on holding the ultrasound probe over each testicle and examining it from every angle, with the other one being mapped as a cross reference. A very, very weird experience, I hope to never repeat.

The worst part was the receptionist upon checking in, who told me that depending on what they found from the ultra-sound, they might want to schedule a biopsy that day and depending on if it was a tumor and how agreesive, they might want to schedule surgical removal within a week after biopsy results came back. That definitely gave me a lot to think about or worry about during the ultrasound.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> People just love to catch a church goer being imperfect. Seems to make their day. Idiots.


This thread has definitely ignited some passions.

For me it's not so much "church lady visits strip club" as it is the depth of betrayal getting to that point. I can't imagine this behavior in my own (pious) wife; It would be crushing to me. Nearly as bad as infidelity. But that's just me and I try (and mostly fail) not to project.


----------



## Anastasia6

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I really doubt the whole thing happened to the extreme the OP and piled on embellishing is stating as 100% fact.
> 
> People just love to catch a church goer being imperfect. Seems to make their day. Idiots.


Well that and also they are straight up mixing up and making up facts.

The quote you quoted of a stripper rubbing their balls on the face. First it was clothed balls. Second and perhaps the most important point THAT WAS HER DAUGHTER"S FACE. Not her face.

She went to a strips show with covered penises. No naked weiners as the OP refers to. She put money in the stippers clothes.

That is not the same as any of the wild things some of the posters are saying she must have done.

So OP you are upset. I understand that. She broke a boundary that was set. She didn't communicate with you well and she is trying to move past it without acknowledging your feelings. These are all very real things to be upset about.

Now let's ask a few questions..... Male strippers never show anything you can't see at the beach or on TV. 

So are you upset she say some chest and thigh muscles on young good looking men? or are you upset you have never went and seen strange breasts? You see female strippers do show more than what you see on the beach or normal TV.

Or are you feeling insecure because you too are older and can't compete with the visuals the young men show? Has she treated you less than since this incident? 

For me I'd be most upset about the lack of communication and trust in our marriage.

Me and my husband don't do strip clubs or Girls night out or Boys night out. But if one of us did do it for some reason. I'd like to think we could just talk about it. A long happy marriage can endure something as silly as this.

Are you upset at the boundary being broken or that she didn't follow your implication that she not go? Do you expect her to follow your lead. I am a Christian woman. I wouldn't nomally do this type of thing. BUT many christian men would be more upset at her not following directions. I couldn't be married to that kind of man, christian or not.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

@1Adam12 why did you title the thread Religious Woman at a Strip Club, instead of Good Wife at a Strip Club? Why make sure that religious was immediately in the title?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Anastasia6 said:


> Well that and also they are straight up mixing up and making up facts.
> 
> The quote you quoted of a stripper rubbing their balls on the face. First it was clothed balls. Second and perhaps the most important point THAT WAS HER DAUGHTER"S FACE. Not her face.
> 
> She went to a strips show with covered penises. No naked weiners as the OP refers to. She put money in the stippers clothes.
> 
> That is not the same as any of the wild things some of the posters are saying she must have done.
> 
> So OP you are upset. I understand that. She broke a boundary that was set. She didn't communicate with you well and she is trying to move past it without acknowledging your feelings. These are all very real things to be upset about.
> 
> Now let's ask a few questions..... Male strippers never show anything you can't see at the beach or on TV.
> 
> So are you upset she say some chest and thigh muscles on young good looking men? or are you upset you have never went and seen strange breasts? You see female strippers do show more than what you see on the beach or normal TV.
> 
> Or are you feeling insecure because you too are older and can't compete with the visuals the young men show? Has she treated you less than since this incident?
> 
> For me I'd be most upset about the lack of communication and trust in our marriage.
> 
> Me and my husband don't do strip clubs or Girls night out or Boys night out. But if one of us did do it for some reason. I'd like to think we could just talk about it. A long happy marriage can endure something as silly as this.
> 
> Are you upset at the boundary being broken or that she didn't follow your implication that she not go? Do you expect her to follow your lead. I am a Christian woman. I wouldn't nomally do this type of thing. BUT many christian men would be more upset at her not following directions. I couldn't be married to that kind of man, christian or not.


Bingo. Well said.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

ConanHub said:


> Hahahaha! No.
> 
> She didn't slip at all. She went full bore and broke her own established boundaries twice. Not a mistake or a slip at all.
> 
> Mrs. C is her age and we have similar boundaries.
> 
> OP's wife is ridiculous and apparently, married the right man to behave that way.


Not a mistake? So she woke up that morning and was thinking all day about how much d!CK she was going to see, all day? We may disagree on this one.

I doubt she was thinking about penises all day and just couldn't wait to get there.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Not a mistake? So she woke up that morning and was thinking all day about how much d!CK she was going to see, all day? We may disagree on this one.
> 
> I doubt she was thinking about penises all day and just couldn't to get there.


I agree with CH on this point.
Your hyperbole of what she might have been thinking isn't useful.

My view:
When the time came to decide "Go into the restroom or no?" "Go to the strip club or no?" "Call Adam now or No?" (and others) she made those decisions each time deliberately. There was understanding of the situation and at least some thought of what Adam would think about it (hence not contacting him). There was some awareness of it being wrong (hence the confession). There was no accident or mistake in any of those. These were conscious purposeful choices.

In the scope of her specific actions she did not make any mistakes. A mistake of her actions might have been if she tried to dial up Adam but instead dialed a wrong number. Or if she was going to Photomart and took a wrong turn. Wrong outcomes that are not in line with the choices she made would be mistakes or accidents. But that isn't what happened as far as OP has reported.

Edit to add:
It would be fair to say to her "It was a mistake if you thought there would be no impact to our marriage by making those choices".
Of course the subtext is "if you thought there would be no impact" which was never the case per OP, thus no mistake.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @1Adam12 why did you title the thread Religious Woman at a Strip Club, instead of Good Wife at a Strip Club? Why make sure that religious was immediately in the title?


I think his backstory covers that. 



1Adam12 said:


> Backstory:
> In college my new GF and future wife was “very” Catholic when we met and she got me back on track with the same Catholic faith of my youth.
> She made it clear that we were to be a church going, pious union. When visiting our favorite weekend getaway of New Orleans over our years together I learned early on (from her insistence) that we don’t go near the racy clubs on Bourbon Street. On one of our first outings together we were down Bourbon Street with a group of friends and she was very uncomfortable and guided me in another direction while our friends went into a strip club. We went take in other historic sites instead. I respected her for that decision and we never set foot in a strip club or anything like that afterwards. I have never been to a bar alone or danced with anyone besides her in 40 years. I was a changed person because of that decision she made that night.





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Not a mistake? So she woke up that morning and was thinking all day about how much d!CK she was going to see, all day? We may disagree on this one.
> 
> I doubt she was thinking about penises all day and just couldn't to get there.


I'm not so sure she wasn't. For one this wasn't the first time around she behaved poorly out with one of her daughters and she knew her husband didn't like it the first time. She knew what she was likely in for given the previous party. She also knew with 100% certainty that she was about to do something her husband didn't like. That was covered in this text conversation from that night. Far too often people use texting for topics that deserve a better communication medium. That was a mistake in the part of the OP. Had I been in this man's shoes I would have been calling her immediately to talk about what she was doing.



1Adam12 said:


> The night:
> While I sat alone in a volunteer role amongst friends one evening a week before Christmas I received a simple text from my wife who was on night two of the bachelorette outing. The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “no that comes after the drag show”. I went home and Googled “male strippers”. Not a good idea.





1Adam12 said:


> This recent chapter has me hurt and confused. If you’ve read the backstory, I feel we made a contract those years ago not to do these type of things. If you are familiar with the phrase “trickle truth” you will understand my concern. She finally told me she held money in air and was “forced” to touch stripper, but this was told to me after I had many sleeplessness nights knowing the first story of “nothing happened, and we’re not going to talk about it anymore” was not true. She said her head was turned away, but a video of our daughter with a stripper rubbing his leather covered sack on her up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job.


Now after the fact she obviously knew what she did was wrong or she wouldn't have been trickle truthing about what went on. She knew before and after that what she was doing was going to not sit well with her husband, but didn't care enough to stop herself before hand and lied afterwards. This doesn't seem divorce worthy after so many good years, but what she did and how she disrespected her husband shouldn't get a free pass. The husband is spineless as well. If this were a hard boundary for him and he got that string of texts from her he should have been more forceful and called her to discuss. Instead he goes home and wallows in his disappointment. 

I do think the husband's lack of backbone contributed to this. On one hand he shouldn't have to be the enforcer since it was discussed and agreed to many years ago that strip clubs were off limits. However, if rules aren't enforced they are meaningless. I think it was pretty obvious that they knew in advance that a strip club would be involved. The wife should not have allowed herself to be put into that situation and the husband should have been more firm prior to her even leaving for the multi-night party. 

I also think overnight bachelor and bachelorette parties like this are nothing more than an excuse for people to behave poorly. Some seem to think that all boundaries and limits are out the window just because it is a bachelor party. What better way to christen your marriage than by getting tea bagged by a stranger at a strip club. That's a great start to a life long relationship.


----------



## oldshirt

Like a diligent prosecutor, I went back to the first post and have made a comprehensive list of this 60some year old’s sins that have been reported during the course of their 39 year relationship. 

- 3 years ago on a bachelorette GNO she followed a man or men into the restroom and allegedly took pictures. We have no report of anyone actually seeing these pictures and no report whether this man/men was consenting or not. 

- Dec 2021. Went to a strip club or club hosting drag show and male strippers despite saying she didn’t like strippers on Bourbon Street circa 1986 as a 20some newlywed.

- gave a dollar to a stripper. 

- stated to have “touched” said stripper but was not reported on how many fingers contacted stripper or which part of his body was touched or for how many seconds in duration. 

These are the reported facts of the case and detail all the issues that the OP has reported during their 39 year relationship and 36 year marriage. These are the dastardly deeds that she has committed in her mere 60+ years on earth. 

Where oh where shall we be able to gather enough firewood to give this witch a proper burning at the stake?


----------



## Anastasia6

1Adam12 said:


> My wife was then eager to go. Before she departed* I reminded her not to do like she did on the first trip a few years earlier. Ok she didn't she did not enter bathrooms*
> 
> The night:
> While I sat alone in a volunteer role amongst friends one evening a week before Christmas I received a simple text from my wife who was on night two of the bachelorette outing. The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “no that comes after the drag show”. I went home and Googled “male strippers”. Not a good idea. The worst idea was being very passive about we don't like naked weenies. She didn't see a naked weenie at all. So what you really meant and should have just said was, "I don't want you to go". Then you could have had a conversation. But you were instead passive and then butt hurt later. It is better to do the butt hurt ahead of time so that she knows how you feel when she can actually change the action.
> 
> 
> Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom? Yes you are missing that she wanted to be a part of the group of women sharing her daughter's only bachelorette party.
> Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires? The implication that she has to ask is problematic. I talk with my husband we discuss. He's not my daddy or my keeper so I don't ask him if i can do anything. On the flip side at anytime he told me. I don't want you to go. I would probably not go because I don't like upsetting him. I honestly can't say in this case because as my daughter ages I desperately want to be a part of her life and as a MOM of an adult I can only do that if invited. There is no more shoehorning her because she is my kid.
> 
> Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards? I am fairly sure you daughter knows that it is against your morals which is why mom wasn't invited in the first place. (Which hurt your wife's feelings). As a parent of an adult, I can no approve of their decisions (like who they marry) but still be a part of their life.
> Do most women think this is just plain fun, and could a women sit in a show like that and not know that when you hold up money a male dancer is going to come to you and give you attention? I'm not like most women but I wouldn't think anything about the male strippers. I think you are missing the point of it just being something the girls did together to commemorate this event. Sure I'd be the first to argue this is a terrible way to do it. I would never plan a party with stripper for a soon to be married. BUT your wife didn't plan it. I think you are way to caught up in the male stripper part of it versus your wife trying to bond with the women there including your daughter. How do you think it would have impacted your wife and her relationship with your daughter if she spent the whole evening at an event she was not invited to originally but allow in last minute to then constantly say.... we should be at a strip club. ... we shouldn't have fun.... we shouldn't do the things someone put a lot of time and effort into planning. Had she been on the planning committee or invited earlier or something then maybe... Did you really want her to ruin your adult daughters party? Of course it would be nice if you had raised a daughter who didn't do these things. It isn't like it's a weekly friends going to a strip club type thing. It's a once or twice (you ahve 3 daughters) life time type thing. You should be able to discuss it as adults and figure this out.
> I especially would like comments if you are “religious”. Is there something I should do? I am willing to be more spontaneous and fun but it seems she wants something different than me. See this here means you are placing way too much emphasis on the stripper male thing than the woman bonding thing. Women in general just don't lust after strippers in the same way men do.
> 
> She has apologized, but I feel a deep divide now that I need help healing from your comments. So what do you think the divide is from? Your continued butt hurt after an apology? Her secret desire for a young stud? Your marriages general inability to openly discuss things? Or maybe she has realized that this relationship is different than she thought.
> 
> Do you feel the divide if from your side or her side? Have you tried discussing the space?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

oldshirt said:


> Like a diligent prosecutor, I went back to the first post and have made a comprehensive list of this 60some year old’s sins that have been reported during the course of their 39 year relationship.
> 
> - 3 years ago on a bachelorette GNO she followed a man or men into the restroom and allegedly took pictures. We have no report of anyone actually seeing these pictures and no report whether this man/men was consenting or not.
> 
> - Dec 2021. Went to a strip club or club hosting drag show and male strippers despite saying she didn’t like strippers on Bourbon Street circa 1986 as a 20some newlywed.
> 
> - gave a dollar to a stripper.
> 
> - stated to have “touched” said stripper but was not reported on how many fingers contacted stripper or which part of his body was touched or for how many seconds in duration.
> 
> These are the reported facts of the case and detail all the issues that the OP has reported during their 39 year relationship and 36 year marriage. These are the dastardly deeds that she has committed in her mere 60+ years on earth.
> 
> Where oh where shall we be able to gather enough firewood to give this witch a proper burning at the stake?


What you skipped over is the parts where she knew she was about to do something her and her husband did want either to do and he reaffirmed that as she was entering the strip club. Then afterwards she lied by claiming nothing happened and even played the "we're not talking about this anymore" card. Until, he found picture evidence of her daughter getting tea bagged. Only then does she start telling the truth. However, since she lied to begin with, can you really trust anything else she says?


----------



## Anastasia6

oldshirt said:


> Like a diligent prosecutor, I went back to the first post and have made a comprehensive list of this 60some year old’s sins that have been reported during the course of their 39 year relationship.
> 
> - 3 years ago on a bachelorette GNO she followed a man or men into the restroom and allegedly took pictures. We have no report of anyone actually seeing these pictures and no report whether this man/men was consenting or not.
> 
> - Dec 2021. Went to a strip club or club hosting drag show and male strippers despite saying she didn’t like strippers on Bourbon Street circa 1986 as a 20some newlywed.
> 
> - gave a dollar to a stripper.
> 
> - stated to have “touched” said stripper but was not reported on how many fingers contacted stripper or which part of his body was touched or for how many seconds in duration.
> 
> These are the reported facts of the case and detail all the issues that the OP has reported during their 39 year relationship and 36 year marriage. These are the dastardly deeds that she has committed in her mere 60+ years on earth.
> 
> Where oh where shall we be able to gather enough firewood to give this witch a proper burning at the stake?


And hell just froze over because me and Oldshirt agree.

I would never put up with my husband regularly going to a strip club. I would like to think I'd be understanding in a situation like this. I know my husband. I love my husband. I trust my husband. I would be a bit miffed and then I'd move on. We don't have a son and if we did I'd like to think he would never have a bachelor's party that included strippers. But I'm not sure I'd be so butthurt if my husband went to my son's bachelorette's party.


----------



## Anastasia6

BigDaddyNY said:


> What you skipped over is the parts where she knew she was about to do something her and her husband did want either to do and he reaffirmed that as she was entering the strip club. Then afterwards she lied by claiming nothing happened and even played the "we're not talking about this anymore" card. Until, he found picture evidence of her daughter getting tea bagged. Only then does she start telling the truth. However, since she lied to begin with, can you really trust anything else she says?


Actually he passively said we don't like naked weenies via text. If he was going to create great space in an otherwise good marriage then he should have called and should have made his stance plain.

If I were her. I'd be like ok he's not happy but they also aren't naked.


----------



## oldshirt

BigDaddyNY said:


> What you skipped over is the parts where she knew she was about to do something her and her husband did want either to do and he reaffirmed that as she was entering the strip club. Then afterwards she lied by claiming nothing happened and even played the "we're not talking about this anymore" card. Until, he found picture evidence of her daughter getting tea bagged. Only then does she start telling the truth. However, since she lied to begin with, can you really trust anything else she says?


Oh now you’ve gone and done it. Now we are going to have to cut down even more trees. 

The carbon footprint of her egregious behaviors are unfathomable 😮


----------



## BigDaddyNY

@Anastasia6 
All good points as always.

Our daughter is 24 and I know my wife will do damn near anything to stay a part of her life. I don't think she would cross hard boundaries like this, but then again my daughter would never in a million years want to be involved in something like this.

I think this whole thing is a combination of a mom wanting to do whatever it takes to stay a part of her daughter's life and a spineless husband that didn't have the fortitude to properly deal with the situation at the time is was unfolding.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Anastasia6 said:


> Actually he passively said we don't like naked weenies via text. If he was going to create great space in an otherwise good marriage then he should have called and should have made his stance plain.
> 
> If I were her. I'd be like ok he's not happy but they also aren't naked.


I completely agree. Some things aren't meant for texting. If it is important to you, talk, not text.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

BigDaddyNY said:


> I completely agree. Some things aren't meant for texting. If it is important to you, talk, not text.


Same. And if I didn't like the answers on a call I would be in the car to have another convo face to face. Bachelor(ette) parties aren't sacred, my marriage is.


----------



## ElOtro

oldshirt said:


> Where oh where shall we be able to gather enough firewood to give this witch a proper burning at the stake?


Paper, divorce ones, are also made of wood.
I´m not saying that he must or should divorce her.
Not even, not at all, to make her "pay" lifetime for this.

But...
If he feels strongly dissapointed and show it in a mature way for a long time, he haves IMO good reasons for it.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

oldshirt said:


> Oh now you’ve gone and done it. Now we are going to have to cut down even more trees.
> 
> The carbon footprint of her egregious behaviors are unfathomable 😮


My point was the actual stuff that went on is less egregious than doing something she knew her husband didn't like and then lied about it.


----------



## oldshirt

BigDaddyNY said:


> My point was the actual stuff that went on is less egregious than doing something she knew her husband didn't like and then lied about it.


Well then let’s add crappy liar to her list of infractions because he knows about it. If she was a halfway decent liar he’d still think they only went to church. 

Throw another log on the fire 🔥


----------



## oldshirt

ElOtro said:


> But...
> If he feels strongly dissapointed and show it in a mature way for a long time, he haves IMO good reasons for it.


Which is exactly what I’ve been saying to the OP since my first post on this thread. I have no beef with the OP and have been sincere in my input to him. 

My issue is with a number of posters that are acting as if the sky is falling and she is the skankiest ho that ever walked the back alleys of Bangkok.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

oldshirt said:


> Well then let’s add crappy lier to her list of infractions because he knows about it. If she was a halfway decent lier he’d still think they only went to church.
> 
> Throw another log on the fire 🔥


To your point, I think, I don't know what he can do about any of this. It certainly isn't worth divorcing, not even close. Especially given the sum total of the prior 39 years. Honestly I'm not even sure what he came for. He wanted healing words, not sure what that means. The question is, what will his third daughters bachelorette party be like?


----------



## sokillme

Anastasia6 said:


> Well mostly you are getting male answers. So not sure you are seeing a difference.
> 
> Let me first state I am a woman. I am over 50 married 28 years.
> 
> I would most likely not participate in any of the things you have described. But I could see if my daughter had a bacherlor party getting roped in to trying to have fun with the young ones. I would not approve of my daughter being teabagged. I would not follow men into a restroom.
> 
> I might go along with a strip show. Probably not but I really want to be part of my daughters specials days and since it's her day I might. I would have a conversation with my husband before I decided to go. We in general wouldn't do that kind of thing. However, around these parts the strip shows are not naked, they are to music, there is no handjobs, blow jobs or any of that non sense being spouted here. So it would be visual only.
> 
> That being said women in generally don't tick like men. You have people asking if you still sexually excite your wife and acting like she wants to give some random man a blow job or hand job. UM... No. I seriously doubt she has a desire to do either. I also doubt she wants anything from the male dancer as well. While she might even appreciate the view, most women don't want to have sex based on looks.. That is a male response.
> 
> I think it is time of a conversation about boundaries and more important about communication.
> I think she should acknowledge your hurt feelings and express what made her go along. You may need to find some understanding as to what is going on in her mind.
> You two need an NEW understanding as to what is and is not acceptable for you. You may want to be preemptive and discuss possible 3rd bachelor party with her.
> 
> Did it occur to you that she might have been VERY hurt about being left out of the 2nd and wanted so badly to fit in when she got the chance that she didn't really consider how you might have felt. This is her daughter who wants to be the old fuddy duddy who isn't invited to their own daughter's wedding events??? She may not have made any of these decisions based on male strippers or strip clubs or desire or lust as is implied.
> 
> She may just have been desperate to be a part of her daughter wedding (hopefully a one time event). We are mothers. We might make dumb choices for those we love.


I went to school and one of my classmates was a male stripper, the stories he told me would make your hair stand up. They had a bowl for women to take off their rings with a bed in the back room. This was so they wouldn't forget to put them back on afterwords. He told me that, I tend to believe him now. Back then I didn't I thought women wouldn't behave like men. I have lived way too long to believe that anymore. Lots of women work
exactly like men and behave just as poorly.

OP's poor flower of a wife, she was only feeling left out so she followed the guy in the rest room, started touching random naked men, participated in an event with pictures of her soon to be married daughter with random men's balls. What a laugh. Oh and then lied to her husband for days. How traumatizing that all must be for her, I mean after all she is naive women and a Mom. We couldn't hope to have her live up her up to her own standard.

I'm sorry the she's a women defense is the lamest of all defenses, same he's just a man.

I don't think this is divorce level stuff but it's crap, and OP should hold her feet to the fire. I would be pissed and she would know it. It would be up to her what happens next.

I wouldn't be writing post to figure it out, I don't need to know why, OP knows enough to know it's ********.


----------



## SRCSRC

Like all of these posts, the devil is in the details. Given these two isolated incidents and the information provided, there is no need to burn her at the stake. The facts do establish that she is a hypocrite. As I stated previously, I find the first incident more disconcerting and possibly in violation of the law. If a man did what she did, it more likely could have led to some sort of criminal prosecution. Again, the details are lacking in exactly what went down. Did she run in, take a quick picture, then run out and that was that. Was there more involvement? It's just bizarre behavior. I've been in many public restrooms and I've never seen a man or woman in there start taking pictures. That would be a clear violation of my privacy. That is so out of the character of most individuals you have to wonder what else has she done? 

That is a question for OP to ponder. If he is satisfied that there is nothing more to these incidents, move on. But before doing that, I would take a closer look at the marriage and whether there have been other "momentary lapses." Again, the devil is in the details.


----------



## sokillme

Young at Heart said:


> I agree, that is why I said it wasn't cheating. I think we actually agree about quite a bit. But you asked the question, so I answered it.
> 
> Your words were, ".....*Would anyone here not call touching another man's genital, in any way shape or form, cheating?*...." I was saying yes, there is someone here who has actually had a woman touch my genitals and not felt it was cheating on my wife. And she was totally relieved that it turned out to be nothing. I doubt that the young female medical technician thought it was cheating on her significant other. It was probably "just business" as I am sure was the way the male strippers felt about what happened at the hen party.
> 
> Since 1 Adam12 has explained his definition of "teabagging" based on what he saw his daughter do in the video, I feel it is much less troubling than what my imagination was. But when it comes to sex, my imagination does tent to run wild initially, until the rational part of my brain takes over. It was still inappropriate, but much more tame than I thought it was. And it I were her fiancee, I might be upset, but probably not enough to call off the wedding. If my wife of 50 years mouthed a male strippers "g-string/sock" I would probably shake my head, ask her how drunk she must have been and then had a long talk with her about mutual expectations on public behavior.
> 
> As picky as my health insurance is with claims, I doubt even if labeled with the "payable" (say alternate therapy massage) medical codes my insurance provider would find it "in network" let allow me to get away with just a copay. Then again, I don't have enough experience with strip clubs to know the full range of services offered or the forms of payment.


Doesn't have to be cheating to be f'ed up.


----------



## Anastasia6

sokillme said:


> I went to school and one of my classmates was a male stripper, the stories he told me would make your hair stand up. They had a bowl for women to take off their rings with a bed in the back room. This was so they wouldn't forget to put them back on. He told me that, I tend to believe him. Lots of women work
> exactly like men and behave just as poorly.
> 
> His poor flower of a wife, she was only feeling left out so she followed the guy in the rest room and then lied to him for days.


Well I don't know where your friend worked or how long it's been since you where in school....

But in the city strip clubs around here there are no beds in the back. They do have some shady private (not really private) rooms at the female strip clubs. The males usually don't even have a club so to speak. They come into town like once a month to a local bar/music venue. 

I could see it happening if it was a stripper come to a party type thing.. or what have you.

I agree women can behave poorly but while men often time wish to touch other womens booblies. regularly in long marriages most women simply don't sit around wanting to touch strange men's penises. Hence most porn viewers are male.


----------



## Anastasia6

SRCSRC said:


> Like all of these posts, the devil is in the details. Given these two isolated incidents and the information provided, there is no need to burn her at the stake. The facts do establish that she is a hypocrite. As I stated previously, I find the first incident more disconcerting and possibly in violation of the law. If a man did what she did, it more likely could have led to some sort of criminal prosecution. Again, the details are lacking in exactly what went down. Did she run in, take a quick picture, then run out and that was that. Was there more involvement? It's just bizarre behavior. I've been in many public restrooms and I've never seen a man or woman in there start taking pictures. That would be a clear violation of my privacy. That is so out of the character of most individuals you have to wonder what else has she done?
> 
> That is a question for OP to ponder. If he is satisfied that there is nothing more to these incidents, move on. But before doing that, I would take a closer look at the marriage and whether there have been other "momentary lapses." Again, the devil is in the details.


i agree the first incident is more concerning. Some of these party games were stupid and I"m sure illegal. But the current issue seems to be the strip club.

I'd also be more concerned about the lying. 

Now I can see her if asked saying that she just refuses to say much as these parties often have an air of what happens at the party stays at the party. I wouldn't do that, I'd just tell my husband what happened. But if I were going to not tell him. I'd just say I'm not going to tell you and give him the reason why. But I never lie to my husband.


----------



## ElOtro

Anastasia6 said:


> If I were her. I'd be like ok he's not happy but they also aren't naked.


Well, if I were him, I´d be ok they arent naked but neither you wil see me naked anytime soon.
So perhaps it´s a pitty they were not.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

ElOtro said:


> Well, if I were him, I´d be ok they arent naked but neither you wil see me naked anytime soon.
> So perhaps it´s a pitty they were not.


You're joking right?


----------



## Anastasia6

ElOtro said:


> Well, if I were him, I´d be ok they arent naked but neither you wil see me naked anytime soon.
> So perhaps it´s a pitty they were not.


So I can tell you are in a long term happy marriage.
Tit for tat and passive aggressive never works well.

If he was going to be as hurt as you are implying then he should have called her, talked to her, went to pick her up. What have you. 

Marriages work when you work with each other and try to understand each other. She needs to figure out why she went, she may even know. She needs to communicate with him. She isn't blameless here but what good is blame going to do either of them? 

So now he should withhold sex? Wow if the roles were reversed a majority of the board would be *****ing about her withholding. 

He needs to examine what he is upset about and communicate that with his wife. She needs to figure out why she went when she surely knew he wouldn't be happy.

THEY need to figure out how to move forward.

Or you know they could both act all passive aggressively, let the whole thing fester, sweep it under the rug and then have it all explode when the 3rd daughter gets married. Or just slowly fade to a nothing relationship from the avoidance until the I love you but not in love with you speech.


----------



## Anastasia6

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You're joking right?


He's really not. But I also don't think he's trying to give OP good advice. He's just beating his own drum kind of thing.

At least I hope he doesn't think that's good advice


----------



## sokillme

Anastasia6 said:


> Well I don't know where your friend worked or how long it's been since you where in school....
> 
> But in the city strip clubs around here there are no beds in the back. They do have some shady private (not really private) rooms at the female strip clubs. The males usually don't even have a club so to speak. They come into town like once a month to a local bar/music venue.
> 
> I could see it happening if it was a stripper come to a party type thing.. or what have you.
> 
> I agree women can behave poorly but while men often time wish to touch other womens booblies. regularly in long marriages most women simply don't sit around wanting to touch strange men's penises. Hence most porn viewers are male.


You act like lots of female strippers don't solicit customers for "extra services" all the time. Like this isn't a known fact by most guys. Like the same thing isn't happening with male strippers? Come on this is real life here..

I am sorry that I have to introduce reality to so many folks on here all the time. Read this if you can handle it.  Some times folks on here can be so innocent.

Here is the money quote in the next one: During these shows, I have lost count of the number of times girls performed oral on me. I am sure all these women were single.

One more so no one can pretend like they have no idea anymore.

There is absolutely no difference between men and women in this area. If you think there is, it's because you have lived a sheltered existence and good for you. But in general there are ****ty men and ****ty women.

One more because I am an a-hole.


----------



## ElOtro

oldshirt said:


> Which is exactly what I’ve been saying to the OP since my first post on this thread.


And neither exactly what I´m saying.



oldshirt said:


> My issue is with a number of posters that are acting as if the sky is falling


No, not the sky, but the core of an in love cople may.



oldshirt said:


> he is the skankiest ho that ever walked the back alleys of Bangkok.


Most of women are not.
But aren´t his girl, the woman he was proud of.
She may become, one more of those whom are not "he skankiest ho that ever walked the back alleys of Bangkok" and neither the one he choose.



sokillme said:


> Doesn't have to be cheating to be f'ed up.


THAT one is the point.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

SRCSRC said:


> Like all of these posts, the devil is in the details. Given these two isolated incidents and the information provided, there is no need to burn her at the stake. The facts do establish that she is a hypocrite. As I stated previously, I find the first incident more disconcerting and possibly in violation of the law. If a man did what she did, it more likely could have led to some sort of criminal prosecution. Again, the details are lacking in exactly what went down. Did she run in, take a quick picture, then run out and that was that. Was there more involvement? It's just bizarre behavior. I've been in many public restrooms and I've never seen a man or woman in there start taking pictures. That would be a clear violation of my privacy. That is so out of the character of most individuals you have to wonder what else has she done?
> 
> That is a question for OP to ponder. If he is satisfied that there is nothing more to these incidents, move on. But before doing that, I would take a closer look at the marriage and whether there have been other "momentary lapses." Again, the devil is in the details.


You say she's a hypocrite, why? Would one not say she's an imperfect human?

Why specifically do you say she's a 24hr a day 7 day week 365 days a year hypocrite?


----------



## Anastasia6

sokillme said:


> You act like lots of female strippers don't solicit customers for "extra services" all the time. Like this isn't a known fact by most guys. Like the same thing isn't happening with these guys?
> 
> I am sorry that I have to introduce reality to so many folks on here all the time. Read this if you can handle it.  Some times folks on here can be so innocent.


So first thing on your reality...

This was a private party at a private house. THE EXACT opposite of a club in a city. Which I even referenced in my post.

SMH


----------



## ElOtro

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You're joking right?


No


----------



## Anastasia6

sokillme said:


> You act like lots of female strippers don't solicit customers for "extra services" all the time. Like this isn't a known fact by most guys. Like the same thing isn't happening with male strippers? Come on this is real life here..
> 
> I am sorry that I have to introduce reality to so many folks on here all the time. Read this if you can handle it.  Some times folks on here can be so innocent.
> 
> Here is the money quote in the next one: During these shows, I have lost count of the number of times girls performed oral on me. I am sure all these women were single.


So you are proposing the wife performed oral on the stripper who had clothes on? 

Is that really what you are saying? What has the OP said that would given any indication of this?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You say she's a hypocrite, why? Would one not say she's an imperfect human?
> 
> Why specifically do you say she's a 24hr a day 7 day week 365 days a year hypocrite?


In that moment she certainly was a hypocrite. It seems like she had a pretty solid stance on how she felt about the morality of strip clubs, yet she walked through the doors of a strip club and participated in the activities. That sounds pretty hypocritical to me. And yes, she is imperfect, as we all are.


----------



## sokillme

Anastasia6 said:


> So you are proposing the wife performed oral on the stripper who had clothes on?
> 
> Is that really what you are saying? What has the OP said that would given any indication of this?


No I am saying lots of stuff goes down at these clubs, it's not just good innocent fun.
Do I think she did that, probably not.
Do I think he will ever know, no.
Do I think it's beyond the realm of possibility No, (once you start touching the distance isn't that far).
Do I think that women are different when it comes to this stuff and it's only the rare women that would go too far because it's just not in their nature. Our innocent wives and daughters couldn't get carried away in a sex charged environment, with naked male body builders and a bunch of their friends screaming in their ears encouraging them? No way that would happen, just the idea is a giant over reactions because... duh.. It's women. Ha ha ha! Yeah sure.

Don't believe me read the 4 threads I linked to in my last posts basically saying as much.

Hell I bet half the women posting on this thread know I am right. It's like the fact that the women's room is always way dirtier then the men's. That's also a secret that most women don't tell you. Ask them to tell you some time, I think most guys would be shocked to hear about it.

I already said what I thought in my other posts. If he is against strippers then detach and make her suffer for a while. Make her earn his respect back a little. Or take her to a female strip joint and have her watch as he participates a little, just a little. At least she gets to see exactly what he is doing.

That seems an appropriate response.


----------



## Anastasia6

sokillme said:


> No I am saying lots of stuff goes down at these clubs, it's not just good innocent fun.
> Do I think she did that, probably not.
> Do I think he will ever know, no.
> Do I think it's beyond the realm of possibility No, (once you start touching the distance isn't that far).
> Do I think that women are different when it comes to this stuff and it's only the rare women that would go too far because it's just not in their nature. Our innocent wives and daughters couldn't get carried away in a sex charged environment, with naked male body builders and a bunch of their friends screaming in their ears encouraging them? No way that would happen, just the idea is a giant over reactions because... duh.. It's women. Ha ha ha! Yeah sure.
> 
> Hell I bet have the women posting on this thread know I am right. It's like the fact that the women's room is always way dirtier then the men's. That's also a secret that most women don't tell you. Ask them to tell you some time, I think most guys would be shocked.
> 
> I already said what I thought in my other posts. If he is against strippers then detach and make her suffer for a while. Make her earn her respect back a little. Or take her to a female strip joint and have her watch as he participates a little, just a little. At least she gets to see exactly what he is doing.
> 
> That seems an appropriate response.


Yep not naked. 

Let's have him withdrawn emotionally. Which has her withdraw physically and we can have him back here in a year or two complaining about a dead bedroom and a wife you LYBNILWY.

Sounds like a perfect solution.

@1Adam12 so do you think the men were naked and your wife put his penis in her mouth? I'd sure be upset about that, if that's what you think.

OP what do you think happened? What are you exactly upset about. Obviously this forum going in circles isn't going to get us to what your thoughts are.


----------



## Anastasia6

You know I"m picturing this with maybe a little more beef cake. And some of the posters are picturing stuff you can't even clip.


----------



## sokillme

Anastasia6 said:


> Yep not naked.
> 
> Let's have him withdrawn emotionally. Which has her withdraw physically and we can have him back here in a year or two complaining about a dead bedroom and a wife you LYBNILWY.
> 
> Sounds like a perfect solution.
> 
> @1Adam12 so do you think the men were naked and your wife put his penis in her mouth? I'd sure be upset about that, if that's what you think.
> 
> OP what do you think happened? What are you exactly upset about. Obviously this forum going in circles isn't going to get us to what your thoughts are.


If it takes a year for her to respond then he has a lot more problems then her going to a strip joint.

All I know is my wife ain't going to any strip joints and neither am I, though I have passed up on the second half about about 5 bachelor parties since we got serious, for that reason. I don't need to discuss that an neither does she, it's understood. She also never asked me to stop, I told my friends, I no longer felt comfortable doing that because it was disrespectful to my wife or then serious girl friend. 

So maybe I am over reacting, but then again my wife has also told me more then once that she is glad I am not a pushover. I am not mean or cruel but I am serious about being respectful to my wife in my marriage and expect her to be serous too. And you better damn well be respectful to her in my presence. There have been a few times where people weren't and that didn't go well for them. We don't have talks about any of this, it's understood.

I wasn't always like this, I used to be a nice guy. Then I got cheated on, and I did a lot of reading, like the threads I just posted here. I didn't read No More Mr. Nice guy like is often recommended I just came to many of the same conclusions organically. I think the main difference is never expected women to be any better then men so I don't have the resentment that I think a lot of these guys do. I do think always being accommodating and easy going is terrible marital strategy. I think you should be very good to your spouse, and kind and all that stuff when appropriate, but if they are being a **** call them out on it.

Anyway you can think I am FOS if you want. I am just saying how I would deal with this.


----------



## ElOtro

Anastasia6 said:


> He's really not. But I also don't think he's trying to give OP good advice. He's just beating his own drum kind of thing.
> 
> At least I hope he doesn't think that's good a


You are right about giving advice.
I trully appologize to the OP and to you all.
I got carried away, not a good thing at all.
But why?
In my honest opinion the ones that are making of this a minor thing unrelated to the couple shared exclusive intimacy are giving a view and related advice _as bad _as the ones that take it as a "sin" contrasted with a commanded moral code external to them as a team.
And, by the way,_ at least as bad_ as "mine".

Even if sorry by my previous posts, I still stand for what I´ve said inmediatly above.


----------



## Anastasia6

@1Adam12 so here's the thing if you are like some of the delusional far out there ideas I could see why you are super upset. But as I stated before. You have to figure out why you are upset. IF it is an issue of control in that she did something you didn't want her to do then I'm not sure I can help with that. IF it is an issue of being a hypocrite I mean you did bring up a rule from 1987... Can't help you there other than to say in talking through her motivations she might be able to help you understand what drove her to it.

But if you are worried she saw a naked penis or touched another mans penis or put another man's penis in her mouth or had sex or a handjob...... Those are easy to solve. 

Did you know that for a few hundred bucks you can get a private lie detector test?

Then you could know if the party was more like the sad little lame parties that usually happen or if it was like the movies where people take drugs, blackout and kill others. Aptly named Bachelor party.

A simple lie detector can fix that.


----------



## Anastasia6

sokillme said:


> If it takes a year for her to respond then he has a lot more problems then her going to a strip joint.
> 
> All I know is my wife ain't going to any strip joints and neither am I, though I have passed up on the second half about about 5 bachelor parties since we got serious, for that reason. I don't need to discuss that an neither does she, it's understood. She also never asked me to stop, I told my friends, I no longer felt comfortable doing that because it was disrespectful to my wife or then serious girl friend.
> 
> So maybe I am over reacting, but then again my wife has also told me more then once that she is glad I am not a pushover. I am not mean or cruel but I am serious about being respectful to my wife in my marriage and expect her to be serous too. And you better damn well be respectful to her in my presence. There have been a few times where people weren't and that didn't go well for them. We don't have talks about any of this, it's understood.
> 
> I wasn't always like this, I used to be a nice guy. Then I got cheated on, and I did a lot of reading, like the threads I just posted here. I didn't read No More Mr. Nice guy like is often recommended I just came to many of the same conclusions organically. I think the main difference is never expected women to be any better then men so I don't have the resentment that I think a lot of these guys do. I do think always being accommodating and easy going is terrible marital strategy. I think be very very good to your spouse, but if they are being a **** call them out on it.
> 
> Anyway you can think I am FOS if you want. I am just saying how I would deal with this.


I actually am not saying your are FOS though over the top comes to mind. I would freely admit that some bad things happen some of the time. But I don't see anything in these posts to indicate the kind of abherrant behavior you are talking about from a wife in a long term happy Christian marriage. A young drunk girl maybe..

I also don't think your advice is good for OP. Funny thing this isn't about you.. It's about him. I never said he should accommodate her or acquiesce, but putting up walls is a great way to end a marriage. Does he want it to end? Does he want his wife to withdraw physical touch. Because most women if we aren't being fed emotionally simply means without even doing it on purpose we withdraw physically cause we aren't engaged.


----------



## sokillme

Anastasia6 said:


> I actually am not saying your are FOS though over the top comes to mind. I would freely admit that some bad things happen some of the time. But I don't see anything in these posts to indicate the kind of abherrant behavior you are talking about from a wife in a long term happy Christian marriage. A young drunk girl maybe..
> 
> I also don't think your advice is good for OP. Funny thing this isn't about you.. It's about him. I never said he should accommodate her or acquiesce, but putting up walls is a great way to end a marriage. Does he want it to end? Does he want his wife to withdraw physical touch. Because most women if we aren't being fed emotionally simply means without even doing it on purpose we withdraw physically cause we aren't engaged.


The fact that you think you are seeing anything at all is the problem. How would anyone know? What we know is she has done inappropriate things, there have been what in my mind are very inappropriate pictures (particularly to the husband to be) shared around by the people who are in the inner circle of that group. And then she lied and tried to cover it up for a few days. I don't know why you are so sure about anything, I think it's unwise to NOT to have some doubt. None of these people seem like a honest narrator at this point. They all seem shady to me and kinda gross.

Truth is the damage is done, and the guy is never going to know. The best he can do is make it painful enough for her that she will learn her lesson and when she thinks about on all this it won't be a happy memory. To the point where she wouldn't want to deal with that enough to want to do it again. That is the strategy I would go for, because that is about the best he can hope.

This is not one of those moments in marriage that you can negotiate, it's one where you need to establish some hard boundaries, and I don't think talking about it is a real effective way to do that. What's to talk about? From top to bottom this was a really ****ty thing his wife did, in the context of an agreement they made and he faithfully followed. That's it. Who cares her reasons, none of them are good. It's not the end of the world but I am not saying divorce either.

"Why did you do this to me" or "What were you thinking" is ineffectual and makes you seem weak.

"I am so pissed at you right now that I need to be away from you for a while" then going out by yourself, going to see a movie one night, going to eat dinner at a bar another, going out with friends another. Being generally cold to her is a lot better strategy. By the third day she will probably get that this isn't just some dumb fun and she needs to rethink her strategy of waiting for clock to run out.

When she shows she gets it, then you can have the talk, but the talk is how this was ******** and not acceptable in the marriage, not why or what she was thinking. Or they can change the rules if they want to. (By the way I have no problem if people are cool with going to strips joints or swingers in their own marriage, my problem is that they had established that it wasn't OK in OPs.)

Then that's it. I would probably make jokes about it from time to time to be a ****, but that is how I am. What I am really doing is reminding my wife in a nice and hopefully funny way that I remember that ****. But also that I am invested in her and us. My wife does the same kinds of jokes with me too. I know what she is doing and frankly I like that she cares enough to check me. I know I belong to her, and my effort matters. I better not mess that up because it's my most important mission. Besides I can think about maybe 5 times this has happened maybe 3 of them mine and most of the time she is right. A few where I look back on and think how stupid I was and she was right, though usually there was no malice, just me thinking I was smart.

Anyway that's me, or you could just have a long meeting with your pastor or something, I am sure that will work.


----------



## Anastasia6

ElOtro said:


> You are right about giving advice.
> I trully appologize to the OP and to you all.
> I got carried away, not a good thing at all.
> But why?
> In my honest opinion the ones that are making of this a minor thing unrelated to the couple shared exclusive intimacy are giving a view and related advice _as bad _as the ones that take it as a "sin" contrasted with a commanded moral code external to them as a team.
> And, by the way,_ at least as bad_ as "mine".
> 
> Even if sorry by my previous posts, I still stand for what I´ve said inmediatly above.


A thing doesn't have to be minor to try to work toward a solution versus punishment.

I think the whole thing is got bad connotations for this marriage both in her treatment of it and his passive communication about something that bothered/bothers him enough he should have been more vocal. Her subsequent lying.
Bad all the way around.

But how you deal with it is the question. Do you make moves to strengthen the marriage through communication and empathy or do you blow the whole 39 years up for wounded pride or whatever drives vindictive responses?

I don't see it worthy of blow it up so then it would be best to strengthen. I don't recommend rug sweeping. Maybe you are talking about someone's posts other than mine but from my perspective I feel the whole thing is lack of good communication and empathy. By both parties.


----------



## Anastasia6

sokillme said:


> The fact that you think you are seeing anything at all is the problem. How would anyone know? What we know is she has done inappropriate things, there have been what in my mind are very inappropriate pictures (particularly to the husband to be) shared around by the people who are in the inner circle of that group. And then she lied and tried to cover it up for a few days. I don't know why you are so sure about anything, I think it's unwise to NOT to have some doubt. None of these people seem like a honest narrator at this point. They all seem shady to me and kinda gross.
> 
> Truth is the damage is done, and the guy is never going to know. The best he can do is make it painful enough for her that she will learn her lesson and when she thinks about on all this it won't be a happy memory. And and wouldn't want to deal with that enough to do it again. That is the strategy I would go for, because that is about the best he can hope.
> 
> This is not one of those moments in marriage that you can negotiate, it's one where you need to establish some hard boundaries, and I don't think talking about it is a real effective way to do that. What's to talk about? From top to bottom this was a really ****ty thing his wife did, in the context of an agreement they made and he faithfully followed. That's it. Who cares her reasons, none of them are good. It's not the end of the world but I am not saying divorce either.
> 
> "Why did you do this to me" or "What were you thinking" is ineffectual and makes you seem weak.
> 
> "I am so pissed at you right now that I need to be away from you for a while" then going out by yourself, going to see a movie one night, going to eat dinner at a bar another, going out with friends another. Being generally cold to her is a lot better strategy. By the third day she will probably get that this isn't just some dumb fun and she needs to rethink her strategy of waiting for clock to run out.
> 
> When she shows she gets it, then you can have the talk, but the talk is how this was ****** and not acceptable in the marriage, not why or what she was thinking. (By the way I have no problem if people are cool with going to strips joints or swingers their own marriage, my problem is that they had established that it wasn't in OPs.)
> 
> Then that's it. I would probably make jokes about it from time to time to be a **, but that is how I am. What I am really doing is reminding her in a nice and hopefully funny way that I remember that **. But also that I am invested in her and us. My wife does the same kinds of jokes with me too. I know what she is doing and frankly I like that she cares enough to check me. I know I belong to her, and my effort matters. I better not mess that up because it's my most important mission. Besides I can think about maybe 5 times this has happeend and most of the time she is right. A couple I look back on and think how stupid I was and she was right, though usually there was no malice, just me thinking I was smart.
> 
> Anyway that's me, or you could just have a long meeting with your pastor or something, I am sure that will work.


Well it is now in the past. So if he threw his fit now and was cold for 3 days doesn't that just seems a little out of whack. It might even work the day she came back. Now it's a little late. And part of the talk can be the I couldn't believe you went to this party knowing there would be strippers. I'm not saying he has to accept what she did without expressing how much it hurt him and how he is in disbelief that she did it. 

I read that there is already space in his marriage since this thing that he is worried about. I don't see increasing that space belatedly for some kind of punishment as productive.

You know talking does mean giving in. You are talking about your wife calling you out. Well guess what that is communication. I don't see very good communication in the stuff of OP's I"m reading. There is a root cause to this.


----------



## Anastasia6

Ok well I think the good discussion is winding down here.

I want to state for the record the OP asked for a female opinion of what any of it meant. I tried to explain one possible explanation to fit his view of a long term happy marriage to a christian woman. I could definitely be wrong. Nefver said that is exactly what happened. OP can figure the physical stuff out pretty easy with a poly.

I won't post any more unless OP actually comes back and give us more detail about what is known. Including what his wife actually said when they talked. He has said she said she won't talk about it more but I'm sure she said stuff before that sentence. So OP what HAS you wife said about, why she went, what happened and what she might do differently in the future.

Ana - out


----------



## Evinrude58

OP is his own worst enemy. He definitely should have not been so passive when she texted if he was going to be this butt hurt about it. He should have made it plain snd clear that she wasn’t to go to a strip club.

The thing Is, she went to a strip club with her own daughter before her daughter’s wedding.
This is nothing in the ballpark of how Christian families act. And that speaks volumes about OP’s leadership as a whole. It’s one thing for one’s kids to do nonsense, it’s another that the parents encourage it. The stripper stuff was encouraged, and the wife is pretending to not have enjoyed the shenanigans.
OP was weak in his response and that’s why he’s dealing with the heartache. I believe his wife might have even called him expecting to be chewed out and give her an out, or she was just calling out of guilt about what she knew she was about to do. 
Lastly,
I know of no women that follow men into bathrooms with a camera, and I don’t believe it. The bathroom is off limits to most people unless one is headed in there For nefarious deeds. As said, anyone would know the camera in a restroom with strange people a good way to get sued or arrested….


----------



## sokillme

Anastasia6 said:


> Well it is now in the past. So if he threw his fit now and was cold for 3 days doesn't that just seems a little out of whack. It might even work the day she came back. Now it's a little late. And part of the talk can be the I couldn't believe you went to this party knowing there would be strippers. I'm not saying he has to accept what she did without expressing how much it hurt him and how he is in disbelief that she did it.
> 
> I read that there is already space in his marriage since this thing that he is worried about. I don't see increasing that space belatedly for some kind of punishment as productive.
> 
> You know talking does mean giving in. You are talking about your wife calling you out. Well guess what that is communication. I don't see very good communication in the stuff of OP's I"m reading. There is a root cause to this.


I agree that there is problem with communication but the problem is that he isn't saying to her, "hey what you did there was ****ty and I'm not happy about it". Instead he is posting on here afraid that he might not have a right to be, or even think that. He is worried if he is being unfair to her or whatever, what she was thinking. All this wishy-washy, passive aggression. 
I don't agree with you, it's not to late, say it. "You know the more I think about this whole thing the more I am pissed about this whole thing. Your memory needs to improve and fast." I wouldn't make it a discussion though and part of the leaving and going out was to force it not to be. 

So no in my experience what I just wrote is a much better life strategy then basically never saying anything and moving on. I would never do that. 

You know who gets raises and makes the most money in life, the people who ask for them. 

In the same way healthy confrontation in relationships and in marriage is a good thing. It's like a brush fire clearing out the dead wood so the forest grows stronger. 

Anyway I think your right and OP is probably gone. I suspect he won't say anything else and this will fester in their marriage, hopefully not too much.


----------



## ElOtro

Anastasia6 said:


> So I can tell you are in a long term happy marriage.
> Tit for tat and passive aggressive never works well.
> 
> If he was going to be as hurt as you are implying then he should have called her, talked to her, went to pick her up. What have you.
> 
> Marriages work when you work with each other and try to understand each other. She needs to figure out why she went, she may even know. She needs to communicate with him. She isn't blameless here but what good is blame going to do either of them?
> 
> So now he should withhold sex? Wow if the roles were reversed a majority of the board would be *****ing about her withholding.
> 
> He needs to examine what he is upset about and communicate that with his wife. She needs to figure out why she went when she surely knew he wouldn't be happy.
> 
> THEY need to figure out how to move forward.
> 
> Or you know they could both act all passive aggressively, let the whole thing fester, sweep it under the rug and then have it all explode when the 3rd daughter gets married. Or just slowly fade to a nothing relationship from the avoidance until the I love you but not in love with you speech.


I hope I can answer to a set of assertions that are consistent with some assumtions that I respect but I do not necessarilly share, not all of them.
So here we go.

"Tit for tat and passive aggressive never works well."
"So now he should withhold sex? Wow if the roles were reversed a majority of the board would be *****ing about her withholding. "
Even if I recognize what I´ve said as wrong, the point was not at all about geting even (the tit fot tat), about punishing her or being aggresive.
And even if whitholding sex is certainly wrong (regardless the gender, I never did it in my life) perhaps you are missing another more inmediate reason: I wouldn´t be so attracted to her in nor proud of us in a situation as described.
Would I denny her sex? No. Would that sex be with the joy of a team celebrating their special togethernes? Sorry, No.
Another point is to feel that some things exclude others by choice. If they coexist, one of them is being devaluated.
Does it deppend on the "inner" intentions? Are not irrelevant, _but are far far far to be enough_.

"If he was going to be as hurt as you are implying then he should have called her, talked to her, went to pick her up. What have you. "
True.

"Marriages work when you work with each other and try to understand each other."
True, but again, what makes understanding of value is also the "about".
Not only what they know of each other.
Also what they both see when looking at the same WHEN about core matters. And is IMO the case.
Someones call it compatibility. Communication is a need, but no amount of it can replace such common view.

"She needs to figure out why she went, she may even know. She needs to communicate with him. She isn't blameless here but what good is blame going to do either of them? "
You are right........IMO to a point.
The "inner" whys should be communicated with murtual understanding.
But I don´t feel they can make something to be less or more than it intrinsically is.
Good and needed IF such communication leads to strongly reject what they agree to be not compatible with THEIR kind of love and to fix the break of their united front.
Not so good IMO if not.

"He needs to examine what he is upset about and communicate that with his wife. "
This and other comments makes me think that you put the main meaning of this in his inner fears and "insecurities" and the solution in to trust her also inner motivations.
So to say, there are no intrinsic meaning in the known facts (regardless the details) that may colide as they happened with the value of their relationship.
If that is implied and with all my respect, I dare to dissagree with such view.

"Or you know they could both act all passive aggressively, let the whole thing fester, sweep it under the rug and then have it all explode when the 3rd daughter gets married. Or just slowly fade to a nothing relationship from the avoidance until the I love you but not in love with you speech."
_*You are right.*_
*Exception made that what you fear is already happening.
What happened says so, IMO.
Her behaviour is, in my view, a quite clear signal of "the I love you but not in love with you".
Not so in her mind and "heart"? Good. Make those thoughts and feelings be consistent with that neglected thing, the reality of choices and facts.
And that is the main problem as I see it.*
_*As serious as that.*_


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Sounds to me like your wife is bored of living the religious goody lifestyle and wants some spice and adventure in her life.

I am not trying to step on any toes. Everyone here has different views and opinions. But with that being said, I believe religion is the biggest money making and fear driving con in human history. I believe so many people live very restricted lifestyles in order to satisfy their religious practices. The problem with this is that I believe most people like this buildup resentment and regret on missing out on so much in their life.... A good example is preachers children. They are usually forced to live that religious lifestyle. But once they get to a certain age, they are the ones who rebel the most.

I myself don't believe there is anything wrong with enjoying a date together in a bar or even a strip club. If I were you, I think I would try being a bit more adventurous and letting go of those strict religious beliefs. I am not saying sleep around, but have more fun and be open to new things. I don't believe a person needs religion to be a good person.


----------



## hamadryad

I'm not saying this is true of the OP, or anyone else in this thread, so let's start there....

IME, there are many guys that are so insecure of their ability to be sexually appealing to their wives/gf's, or so afraid they may see something or have some "experience" that stuff like this just sends them off the rails..It's no different than when they completely freak out to find she's got a dildo..

I literally know guys that would freak out if their woman said a guy was good looking or had a nice build...its that nuts..I even witnessed it this weekend when a couple of us were watching the NFL playoffs... A guy that I know at the gathering seemed to all of a sudden not talk to his wife after she mentioned that Jimmy Garappolo(49er QB) was a "hottie"...She meant nothing by it, and even though I am as hetero as any guy you will meet, I can admit, he is a good looking man, so what the eff? Really?? I know women do this as well, but its more of an eye roll and maybe they expect that from guys? I dunno...Quite frankly, it comes across as very controlling...I just don't see that type of thing as a diss,,,,who cares? Some do...

Its been many pages, but as I stated earlier in the thread, some of these parties do go off the rails...And some of these ladies,(after a bunch of drinks I am sure) do stuff,,,,I personally witnessed it as someone working in the club at that time...But bear in mind, that was at a time when there were no cell cameras in use...I find it almost impossible to think that it would be as bad today, because no one wants to be in a compromised position and get filmed doing it...But who knows??

But maybe this is coming into play here, and that there wasn't as egregious a foul as being speculated? I don't know, and at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter....If someone has a big problem with it, then that's their deal...It doesn't matter what anyone says, he will have to process it, and make whatever changes he sees fit....


----------



## ElOtro

Anastasia6 said:


> A thing doesn't have to be minor to try to work toward a solution versus punishment.
> 
> I think the whole thing is got bad connotations for this marriage both in her treatment of it and his passive communication about something that bothered/bothers him enough he should have been more vocal. Her subsequent lying.
> Bad all the way around.
> 
> But how you deal with it is the question. Do you make moves to strengthen the marriage through communication and empathy or do you blow the whole 39 years up for wounded pride or whatever drives vindictive responses?
> 
> I don't see it worthy of blow it up so then it would be best to strengthen. I don't recommend rug sweeping. Maybe you are talking about someone's posts other than mine but from my perspective I feel the whole thing is lack of good communication and empathy. By both parties.


I agree with most of what you posted.
There are some views that I don´t share, anyhow, provided it´s not a case of semantic missunderstanding. 

"Do you make moves to strengthen the marriage" I say enthusiastically YES.
"....through communication and empathy" Yes even if the value of it should also deppend on what is communicated and not only in the honesty of the communication channel.
Empathy is a nice needed thing by all means. Can it replace a common reaction to what is outside the mindd?
I don´t thing so.
They may even agree, be both wrong and (as you said it in another post) and end in the ""I love you, but I’m not in love with you." without a clue of why.

"Maybe you are talking about someone's posts other than mine but from my perspective"
I appologize if it´s happening.


----------



## Diana7

There are quite a few people who have responded for who going to a stripper would be a complete no no. Either for themselves or their spouse. 

I feel the same. If I was invited to any sort of hen do I would find out about it first and either go or not go depending on what I found out. 
We would see it as a form of unfaithfulness and to be honest being with a drunk group of screaming women isn't appealing to me at all stripper or no stripper. 
I would far rather go for a meal, or to a show, or do something fun away from bars and clubs. 

Mr D would think I had flipped my lid if I rang him up and said we were going to see a stripper.


----------



## Anastasia6

Diana7 said:


> There are quite a few people who have responded for who going to a stripper would be a complete no no. Either for themselves or their spouse.
> 
> I feel the same. If I was invited to any sort of hen do I would find out about it first and either go or not go depending on what I found out.
> We would see it as a form of unfaithfulness and to be honest being with a drunk group of screaming women isn't appealing to me at all stripper or no stripper.
> I would far rather go for a meal, or to a show, or do something fun away from bars and clubs.
> 
> Mr D would think I had flipped my lid if I rang him up and said we were going to see a stripper.


That's great that is what you would do. How about helping OP with the situation with his wife. The cat is already out of the bag. You divorcing over it?


----------



## Diana7

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Sounds to me like your wife is bored of living the religious goody lifestyle and wants some spice and adventure in her life.
> 
> I am not trying to step on any toes. Everyone here has different views and opinions. But with that being said, I believe religion is the biggest money making and fear driving con in human history. I believe so many people live very restricted lifestyles in order to satisfy their religious practices. The problem with this is that I believe most people like this buildup resentment and regret on missing out on so much in their life.... A good example is preachers children. They are usually forced to live that religious lifestyle. But once they get to a certain age, they are the ones who rebel the most.
> 
> I myself don't believe there is anything wrong with enjoying a date together in a bar or even a strip club. If I were you, I think I would try being a bit more adventurous and letting go of those strict religious beliefs. I am not saying sleep around, but have more fun and be open to new things. I don't believe a person needs religion to be a good person.


We live the way we do because it really is the BEST way. Its not restricting, it's not goody goody, it is going against the flow but there is nothing like it. 

The reason why most of us wouldn't go and see a stripper isn't because we feel we must stick to the rules, it's because it's very unloving and disrespectful to our spouse. It's just against our idea of faithfulness and isn't putting the marriage first. 

You can't 'let go of religious beliefs'. You either have faith or you don't. It's so much part of our life and being that it just is. Not something that you just turn on and off.


----------



## 1Adam12

Anastasia6 said:


> Well that and also they are straight up mixing up and making up facts.
> 
> The quote you quoted of a stripper rubbing their balls on the face. First it was clothed balls. Second and perhaps the most important point THAT WAS HER DAUGHTER"S FACE. Not her face.
> 
> She went to a strips show with covered penises. No naked weiners as the OP refers to. She put money in the stippers clothes.
> 
> That is not the same as any of the wild things some of the posters are saying she must have done.
> 
> So OP you are upset. I understand that. She broke a boundary that was set. She didn't communicate with you well and she is trying to move past it without acknowledging your feelings. These are all very real things to be upset about.
> 
> Now let's ask a few questions..... Male strippers never show anything you can't see at the beach or on TV.
> 
> So are you upset she say some chest and thigh muscles on young good looking men? or are you upset you have never went and seen strange breasts? You see female strippers do show more than what you see on the beach or normal TV.
> 
> Or are you feeling insecure because you too are older and can't compete with the visuals the young men show? Has she treated you less than since this incident?
> 
> For me I'd be most upset about the lack of communication and trust in our marriage.
> 
> Me and my husband don't do strip clubs or Girls night out or Boys night out. But if one of us did do it for some reason. I'd like to think we could just talk about it. A long happy marriage can endure something as silly as this.
> 
> Are you upset at the boundary being broken or that she didn't follow your implication that she not go? Do you expect her to follow your lead. I am a Christian woman. I wouldn't nomally do this type of thing. BUT many christian men would be more upset at her not following directions. I couldn't be married to that kind of man, christian or not.


I only said the W said she expected naked weeners after drag show.


----------



## Diana7

Anastasia6 said:


> That's great that is what you would do. How about helping OP with the situation with his wife. The cat is already out of the bag. You divorcing over it?


Honestly I have no idea how either of us would react. It's so far out there for us that it wouldn't even enter our heads to do it. I doubt I would divorce, but the trust would be gone and the picture of the man I thought he was would be shattered. 

Lots of MC maybe? Would depend on how repentant the one who did it was. Ops wife doesn't seem to care a lot about his feelings. 

I don't think the op will do anything. I dont know why he didn't ask her not to go when she rang up.


----------



## ConanHub

BigDaddyNY said:


> To your point, I think, I don't know what he can do about any of this. It certainly isn't worth divorcing, not even close. Especially given the sum total of the prior 39 years. Honestly I'm not even sure what he came for. He wanted healing words, not sure what that means. The question is, what will his third daughters bachelorette party be like?


One opinion. I've got a lot invested in my wife and she would have a very rough road and very heavy load to convince me to stay after crossing boundaries twice.


----------



## manwithnoname

Does it really matter what kind of a wife she was for the last "whatever" years? She broke her own rule, not once, but twice. The second time she must have known 100% it was wrong and her husband would not approve. But she did it anyway. Because, after all those years, she knows him well enough to know that she could do it, and there would be no consequences. 

What really matters is what the OP is willing to put up with, and what he's willing to do about it. 
Let's not forget he came here, so he's obviously bothered enough by it. I hope he doesn't rug sweep.


----------



## ElOtro

Diana7 said:


> You can't 'let go of religious beliefs'. You either have faith or you don't. It's so much part of our life and being that it just is. Not something that you just turn on and off.


Diana, I see that we sometimes (but not always) somehow end more converging on conclutions than agreeing in the reason of our sometimes coincidences.
There we have an example.
I choosed to be fiercely exclusive with my partners. I never cheated and had no interest in betraying them.
I would neither find attractive nor acceptable some socially tolerated "games" as the ones described.
Mainly because I loved those women the best I knew and also cos I believe this fits the nature of the variety of couple I would desire and accept.

And here it comes.........
If this also fits something supernatural, I would not protest about, no prejudice and no debate.
But I would go on being loyal to my said values if not were ruled by moral / religious / legal commandments.
_*And EVEN if the opposite was true.*_

So help me God.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

manwithnoname said:


> Does it really matter what kind of a wife she was for the last "whatever" years? She broke her own rule, not once, but twice. The second time she must have known 100% it was wrong and her husband would not approve. But she did it anyway. Because, after all those years, she knows him well enough to know that she could do it, and there would be no consequences.
> 
> What really matters is what the OP is willing to put up with, and what he's willing to do about it.
> Let's not forget he came here, so he's obviously bothered enough by it. I hope he doesn't rug sweep.


Technically she only broke her rule once, during the second party. The first bachelorette party didn't involve a strip club. They were just at a beach bar and one of the stupid games they played was follow men into the bathroom and snap a picture. Pretty low class, but no strip club involved.


----------



## ElOtro

BigDaddyNY said:


> Technically


....technically.
True but not a very impressive thought about. Or is it?


----------



## Talker67

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You say she's a hypocrite, why? Would one not say she's an imperfect human?


uh, because all of his married life, she made sure the OP had blue balls.
she gave him this religious holier than thou ********, and he suffered from decades of that. then, she cuts loose just because she got a little drunk and saw her daughter tea bagging some stripper. 

She COULD have walked out right then. She COULD have drank a ginger ale.


----------



## Talker67

Anastasia6 said:


> You know I"m picturing this with maybe a little more beef cake. And some of the posters are picturing stuff you can't even clip.
> View attachment 82770


if that stripper stood up, jammed his junk into the soon to be bride's face, and she mouthed his stuff thru that black underwear....that would be ok? because something like that is exactly what the OP said happened.


----------



## Talker67

Diana7 said:


> Honestly I have no idea how either of us would react. It's so far out there for us that it wouldn't even enter our heads to do it.


i have been to raunchy stag parties. i know how i would react because i know what i did! I would drink a few more beers, watch the naked ladies dance some more, and stay the hell out of any back rooms! I might roll my eyes a little watching others go ape **** crazy. When i got home, i would probably be pretty horny, and would seek out my wife!

this whole mess just sounds like people who were totally out of control, who can not handle their alcohol, and who became "bad drunks" and did some really regrettable **** during the party


----------



## Anastasia6

Talker67 said:


> if that stripper stood up, jammed his junk into the soon to be bride's face, and she mouthed his stuff thru that black underwear....that would be ok? because something like that is exactly what the OP said happened.


you do realize the bride isn't the OP's wife right?


----------



## Anastasia6

@1Adam12 i noticed you came said one thing and then didn't answer or clarify any of the questions people had.

Or address the wild speculation going on.

Did you find what you were looking for?


----------



## Talker67

Anastasia6 said:


> you do realize the bride isn't the OP's wife right?


wat?

the bride is the OP's daughter. so she is the daughter of the OPs wife too


----------



## Anastasia6

Talker67 said:


> wat?
> 
> the bride is the OP's daughter. so she is the daughter of the OPs wife too


So to catch you up. The wife went to her daughters party that she didn't plan or even know she was going to be invited to. went to a strip club and gave one of the guys some money.

He should have divorced her yesterday already.


----------



## Talker67

Anastasia6 said:


> So to catch you up. The wife went to her daughters party that she didn't plan or even know she was going to be invited to. went to a strip club and gave one of the guys some money.
> 
> He should have divorced her yesterday already.


did you not leave out her going into the men's room for some sexual touching action?


----------



## ElOtro

Anastasia6 said:


> He should have divorced her yesterday already.


I wouldn´t advice him this.
But since you said it........I´m having second thoughts about.


----------



## Anastasia6

Talker67 said:


> did you not leave out her going into the men's room for some sexual touching action?


Ok again. the men's room was a game played at the 1st party a long time ago. I guess you can hold that against her but the OP and no one in the know has EVER said she did any sexual touching. You are falling for all the wild speculation this thread has going on.


----------



## Diana7

ElOtro said:


> Diana, I see that we sometimes (but not always) somehow end more converging on conclutions than agreeing in the reason of our sometimes coincidences.
> There we have an example.
> I choosed to be fiercely exclusive with my partners. I never cheated and had no interest in betraying them.
> I would neither find attractive nor acceptable some socially tolerated "games" as the ones described.
> Mainly because I loved those women the best I knew and also cos I believe this fits the nature of the variety of couple I would desire and accept.
> 
> And here it comes.........
> If this also fits something supernatural, I would not protest about, no prejudice and no debate.
> But I would go on being loyal to my said values if not were ruled by moral / religious / legal commandments.
> _*And EVEN if the opposite was true.*_
> 
> So help me God.


Yes. Me too.


----------



## Anastasia6

ElOtro said:


> I wouldn´t advice him this.
> But since you said it........I´m having second thoughts about.


Oh I thiink it's a grand idea she can go into retirement with half of everything they have and since she is such a wild sexual deviant she won't have any trouble finding a partner. 

He'll go into retirement with half of everything they have and daughters who are going to think they caused their parents divorce. I'm sure it will have a loving effect on his relationship with them. But hey as an older church man he will have the pick of any of the other single church ladies. There is no doubt that women in church out number men by miles.

He'll be able to set a firm boundary with the next one because he'll tell her that he divorced his first wife over it. So she'll know.... Except he probably won't tell her because he isn't good at communication either.


----------



## Diana7

Talker67 said:


> i have been to raunchy stag parties. i know how i would react because i know what i did! I would drink a few more beers, watch the naked ladies dance some more, and stay the hell out of any back rooms! I might roll my eyes a little watching others go ape **** crazy. When i got home, i would probably be pretty horny, and would seek out my wife!
> 
> this whole mess just sounds like people who were totally out of control, who can not handle their alcohol, and who became "bad drunks" and did some really regrettable **** during the party


I wasn't saying how we would each react if we were at an event like this, but how we would react if the other went. Such as in the op's case.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Your oldest daughter had a bachelorette party three years ago and your wife played a game of following guys in the bathroom to take pictures with them.... What kind of game involves just taking innocent pictures with guys in the bathroom?

Your second daughter had a bachelorette party while you were volunteering. She sent you a text message that simply said "strip club". She sent you another text that included drag show..... Why on Earth would she just send you a text saying strip club when she supposedly is against such places?

She informed you she held money in the air. She also waited days to tell you the full story. She lied and said her head was turned when the video shows otherwise.... Seriously? Put these two puzzle pieces together 🤣

QUOTE="1Adam12, post: 20462458, member: 353540"]

Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom? Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires? Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards?

[/QUOTE]

I highly recommend that you slowly read your own original post and put the clues together. These are only what you know your wife has done. Have you looked at any internet browsing history for porn or anything like that?

In my opinion, your wife is screaming that she wants some more adventure and spice in her life. I am not sure if you are just in denial, dont want to believe/accept it, or don't want anything to change. And yes, people do change. As a small test, try hinting around at the idea of going to a strip club or getting her a sex toy for bedroom play. Just watch her eyes and expressions. I am willing to bet you will see a positive response. But it sounds as if your wife and her lady friends indulged in some alcohol and they got her to let loose that night. She of course knows what your reaction would be and wants to say as little as possible.


----------



## Anastasia6

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Your oldest daughter had a bachelorette party three years ago and your wife played a game of following guys in the bathroom to take pictures with them.... What kind of game involves just taking innocent pictures with guys in the bathroom?
> 
> Your second daughter had a bachelorette party while you were volunteering. She sent you a text message that simply said "strip club". She sent you another text that included drag show..... Why on Earth would she just send you a text saying strip club when she supposedly is against such places?
> 
> She informed you she held money in the air. She also waited days to tell you the full story. She lied and said her head was turned when the video shows otherwise.... Seriously? Put these two puzzle pieces together 🤣
> 
> QUOTE="1Adam12, post: 20462458, member: 353540"]
> 
> Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom? Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires? Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards?


I highly recommend that you slowly read your own original post and put the clues together. These are only what you know your wife has done. Have you looked at any internet browsing history for porn or anything like that?

In my opinion, your wife is screaming that she wants some more adventure and spice in her life. I am not sure if you are just in denial, dont want to believe/accept it, or don't want anything to change. And yes, people do change. As a small test, try hinting around at the idea of going to a strip club or getting her a sex toy for bedroom play. Just watch her eyes and expressions. I am willing to bet you will see a positive response. But it sounds as if your wife and her lady friends indulged in some alcohol and they got her to let loose that night. She of course knows what your reaction would be and wants to say as little as possible.
[/QUOTE]
How is a strip club and a sex toy even remotely the same. There are plenty of monogamous Christian couples who use sex toys. Most couples agree strip clubs aren't good for a relationship.


----------



## Talker67

Anastasia6 said:


> In my opinion, your wife is screaming that she wants some more adventure and spice in her life. I am not sure if you are just in denial, dont want to believe/accept it, or don't want anything to change. And yes, people do change.


THAT we all can agree is obvious. she is so horny she is trying to cop a feel in the mens room.

Get this poor lady laid!


----------



## Anastasia6

Talker67 said:


> THAT we all can agree is obvious. she is so horny she is trying to cop a feel in the mens room.
> 
> Get this poor lady laid!


I didn't write that. So you are agreeing with someone else. I can say that yours is a male response. 
He didn't write that she was trying to cope a feel. OP stated at the 1st bacherlorette party there was some kind of stupid game.

In addition I don't think going to her daughters bachelorette party means she's so horny. 

I would love to say I would never do what the wife has done. I am married to the love of my life for 28 years. We have the best marriage I know of. We would take a similar stance as some that we just wouldn't do this. That is a true statement right now. I maybe giving too much credence to the fact it was as part of her daughter's wedding but OP says she doesn't normally do this she hasn't done anything since that in general she is a lovely woman and wife. So if I stretch my imagination... I could see going because of my daughter. Now I can tell you my daughter today would NEVER go to a strip club. But who know in 5 years with the wrong friends she might think that it was something crazy to do for her bachelorette party. I can't say if invited I wouldn't go. I might go just to make sure nothing bad happens to her and her friends.

I can say my husband would 100% not punish me for it. But I have a good relationship with him and I can tell you without doubt that if I told him I wanted to go he'd agree and if he told me flatly not to go I wouldn't. It's us against the world even if the world includes our daughter. However.... This thing is done so now you can't deal with the would have should have could haves. You need to deal with how do we move forward.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Anastasia6 said:


> I highly recommend that you slowly read your own original post and put the clues together. These are only what you know your wife has done. Have you looked at any internet browsing history for porn or anything like that?
> 
> In my opinion, your wife is screaming that she wants some more adventure and spice in her life. I am not sure if you are just in denial, dont want to believe/accept it, or don't want anything to change. And yes, people do change. As a small test, try hinting around at the idea of going to a strip club or getting her a sex toy for bedroom play. Just watch her eyes and expressions. I am willing to bet you will see a positive response. But it sounds as if your wife and her lady friends indulged in some alcohol and they got her to let loose that night. She of course knows what your reaction would be and wants to say as little as possible.


How is a strip club and a sex toy even remotely the same. There are plenty of monogamous Christian couples who use sex toys. Most couples agree strip clubs aren't good for a relationship.
[/QUOTE]

They are not the same. But I find that more times than not, people who are religious at this level usually view any kind of porn, sex toys, strip clubs, etc as sinful and wont even consider any of it for a second, and that is ok.

I am just saying that people do change and that includes beliefs. I strongly believe that this guys wife has something brewing inside and she wants a little more adventure and a different kind of fun as she is only getting older. How many times have we seen threads where either the guy or female has stated they are bored with their spouse, they want more? 

I am just stating my opinion and I am not trying to be mean. But I have a feeling that her actions are a sign that she is changing and desires more from him.... I would rather say something that may get him thinking than see a new thread in six months from now that she left. And before leaving, she sat him down and says something like I love you, but not in love with you. I need more in my life and feel like we just aren't connecting and I need to find myself.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Anastasia6 said:


> I didn't write that. So you are agreeing with someone else. I can say that yours is a male response.
> He didn't write that she was trying to cope a feel. OP stated at the 1st bacherlorette party there was some kind of stupid game.
> 
> In addition I don't think going to her daughters bachelorette party means she's so horny.
> 
> I would love to say I would never do what the wife has done. I am married to the love of my life for 28 years. We have the best marriage I know of. We would take a similar stance as some that we just wouldn't do this. That is a true statement right now. I maybe giving too much credence to the fact it was as part of her daughter's wedding but OP says she doesn't normally do this she hasn't done anything since that in general she is a lovely woman and wife. So if I stretch my imagination... I could see going because of my daughter. Now I can tell you my daughter today would NEVER go to a strip club. But who know in 5 years with the wrong friends she might think that it was something crazy to do for her bachelorette party. I can't say if invited I wouldn't go. I might go just to make sure nothing bad happens to her and her friends.
> 
> I can say my husband would 100% not punish me for it. But I have a good relationship with him and I can tell you without doubt that if I told him I wanted to go he'd agree and if he told me flatly not to go I wouldn't. It's us against the world even if the world includes our daughter. However.... This thing is done so now you can't deal with the would have should have could haves. You need to deal with how do we move forward.


I am glad that you have a great marriage! Congratulations on nearly 3 decades of marriage! That is incredible 👏

As far as your daughter, dont be so sure lol. Kids even as adults tend to act a little differently around parents. Saying she would NEVER go to a strip club as you know her now is almost like looking at the quiet receptionist at work thinking she is completely innocent..... Me and my wife go to the strip club from time to time. We have seen people there who you would never imagine would ever step foot in that place. It wasn't the receptionist, but my wife saw one of her coworkers on stage 🤣 and they saw each other. My wife said she wont say a word, but dancing at night would probably result in her being fired from her day job.


----------



## Evinrude58

The stupid game and the strip club and trashy bachelorette party isn’t the problem here. If she discussed it and was open about it and just said it was stupid, childish fun and they had a great sexual relationship and the whole relationship in general was positive, I don’t think OP would be upset. I think even I could deal with that, because if this woman is a normal, decent woman, I can’t see a 60 yr old being all that turned on by this stuff either.

But she isn’t open. She’s secretive. She is turned on, or she would NOT participate. She could go and have fun and such without going in the men’s room (which is just plain stupid and dangerous), and putting money in guys underwear. She also wouldn’t be hurt snd disappointed that she was left. Out of such a childish, disrespectful event. I think 99% of decent men would be hugely hurt if their bride or fiancée went out and got teabagged at a strip club. It’s just hurtful. And I think me who have a desire to go bang a stripper at a bachelor party before their wedding— don’t deserve a bride. And yes, women do get turned on by make bodies and want to screw just like men. All this jabber about they are different……. Ha. Not my experience. They act a certain way like they aren’t until a man they’re highly attracted to gives them attention and their pants are off as fast as any man’s.
Not all women, and not all men.
But a good darned percentage.

going out to strip clubs just isn’t cool.
She knew her husband wasn’t cool with it and did it anyway because he is so passive he asks if he needs to apologize to HER.

He’s a reasonable dude, but he needs to find his inner strength to give his wife some boundaries that she may already want. And he’d more than likely be fine. If he’s made it 36 yrs with her, and he can still perform in bed, there’s not huge reason she should suddenly go too out of hand. She did in fact inform him of the club and he was too passive to make his stance loud and clear. It’s partly, in a smallish way, on him what happened.


----------



## ElOtro

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh I thiink it's a grand idea she can go into retirement with half of everything they have and since she is such a wild sexual deviant she won't have any trouble finding a partner.
> 
> He'll go into retirement with half of everything they have and daughters who are going to think they caused their parents divorce. I'm sure it will have a loving effect on his relationship with them. But hey as an older church man he will have the pick of any of the other single church ladies. There is no doubt that women in church out number men by miles.
> 
> He'll be able to set a firm boundary with the next one because he'll tell her that he divorced his first wife over it. So she'll know.... Except he probably won't tell her because he isn't good at communication either.


I was not being serious this time, but some wanabe-ironies get my dark humour sense.

But let´s say something about the above. 
First things firts, is not the only posible scenario.

" she can go into retirement with half of everything they have" 
Why not? It´s fair.
AND if not, money can´t replace dignity. 
Don´t ask me how I know.

"...and since she is such a wild sexual deviant...."
I never said she is. Moreover I do not think at all she is.
Not being in love with a certain man is not a "sin", not a pathology (or a quite frequent one), neither a moral fail
And whatever is in the minds, facts don´t lie because facts don´t talk. But they show..
Being married to that certain man and staying with him in such conditions is a bit more problematic.

"...and since she is such a wild sexual deviant she won't have any trouble finding a partner."
I truly hope she finds a partner she can love. And so both can enjoy the blessing of such wild sexuality between them instead of making it "disperse" elsewhere.

"He'll go into retirement with half of everything they have" But with all he owns as individual.

"...and daughters who are going to think they caused their parents divorce."
If some episode was as described, at least one of them may be better thinking on what caused her own "divorce" so prematurely that took place before the marriage ceremony.

" I'm sure it will have a loving effect on his relationship with them."
Yes, they may blame the wrong one. It sometimes happens.

"But hey as an older church man he will have the pick of any of the other single church ladies. "
Are you sayng that he learnt nothing at all?

"He'll be able to set a firm boundary with the next one because he'll tell her that he divorced his first wife over it. So she'll know..."
I´ll read it all again. Till now I was convinced that they HAD a stablished boundary about. And that his wife could not ignore a rule she stablished herself.

" he isn't good at communication either"
True.
Which is what caused all this I assume..........
Not the facts themselves, but how are said. Brilliant!

By the way and once more I´m not advising him to divorce.
And again, neither to punish her.

They perhaps and hopefuly become the team that the described facts tell they were not or no more.
I hope so.

But that would be more fraudulent than only difficult if based in a diluted diagnosis, good to feel better for a while by putting the bottle over the content. And not so good for making them become a couple in love, if that is still feasible.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @1Adam12 why did you title the thread Religious Woman at a Strip Club, instead of Good Wife at a Strip Club? Why make sure that religious was immediately in the title?


Because it shows his wife acts one way, but is really a hypocrite. Meet at the church and then go to slip bills in a strippers 🍌 hammock.


----------



## Anastasia6

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I am glad that you have a great marriage! Congratulations on nearly 3 decades of marriage! That is incredible 👏
> 
> As far as your daughter, dont be so sure lol. Kids even as adults tend to act a little differently around parents. Saying she would NEVER go to a strip club as you know her now is almost like looking at the quiet receptionist at work thinking she is completely innocent..... Me and my wife go to the strip club from time to time. We have seen people there who you would never imagine would ever step foot in that place. It wasn't the receptionist, but my wife saw one of her coworkers on stage 🤣 and they saw each other. My wife said she wont say a word, but dancing at night would probably result in her being fired from her day job.


Well you can doubt but I don’t. Mines a 23 year old virgin. Is it possible she completely changes sure can’t rule it out. But I doubt it.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Anastasia6 said:


> Well you can doubt but I don’t. Mines a 23 year old virgin. Is it possible she completely changes sure can’t rule it out. But I doubt it.


How do you know she is a virgin?


----------



## Anastasia6

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> How do you know she is a virgin?


Oh please you do you. I know my daughter. Which BTW I wouldn’t be upset if she weren’t.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You say she's a hypocrite, why? Would one not say she's an imperfect human?
> 
> Why specifically do you say she's a 24hr a day 7 day week 365 days a year hypocrite?


She said that was not for them, things like strip clubs and then goes to them. All the while purporting to be this good Christian woman who would not do such things. ...yeah she would...enjoyed every minute of it too.


----------



## sokillme

Talker67 said:


> if that stripper stood up, jammed his junk into the soon to be bride's face, and she mouthed his stuff thru that black underwear....that would be ok? because something like that is exactly what the OP said happened.


Just going to be blunt here, I feel bad for these dummies who marry these women. They should be ghosting them.


----------



## sokillme

Anastasia6 said:


> So to catch you up. The wife went to her daughters party that she didn't plan or even know she was going to be invited to. went to a strip club and gave one of the guys some money.
> 
> He should have divorced her yesterday already.


You left out the first B. Party where she followed some guy into the bathroom to "take a picture". Also the texting where OP made it pretty obvious he was not cool with it because they had an agreement not to do those kinds of things, and her dismissively going anyway. A deal he on the other hand stuck with. The fact that now she admits she touched some stripper (whatever that means). And the fact that she lied and gaslit him. 

Besides all that it was a pretty good recap.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok well I think the good discussion is winding down here.
> 
> I want to state for the record the OP asked for a female opinion of what any of it meant. I tried to explain one possible explanation to fit his view of a long term happy marriage to a christian woman. I could definitely be wrong. Nefver said that is exactly what happened. OP can figure the physical stuff out pretty easy with a poly.
> 
> I won't post any more unless OP actually comes back and give us more detail about what is known. Including what his wife actually said when they talked. He has said she said she won't talk about it more but I'm sure she said stuff before that sentence. So OP what HAS you wife said about, why she went, what happened and what she might do differently in the future.
> 
> Ana - out


My wife said there is more to his wife's behavior that she is hiding from him.


----------



## sokillme

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok again. the men's room was a game played at the 1st party a long time ago. I guess you can hold that against her but the OP and no one in the know has EVER said she did any sexual touching. You are falling for all the wild speculation this thread has going on.


If not for your 2000 posts I would think you were OP's wife.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok well I think the good discussion is winding down here.
> 
> I want to state for the record the OP asked for a female opinion of what any of it meant. I tried to explain one possible explanation to fit his view of a long term happy marriage to a christian woman. I could definitely be wrong. Nefver said that is exactly what happened. OP can figure the physical stuff out pretty easy with a poly.
> 
> I won't post any more unless OP actually comes back and give us more detail about what is known. Including what his wife actually said when they talked. He has said she said she won't talk about it more but I'm sure she said stuff before that sentence. So OP what HAS you wife said about, why she went, what happened and what she might do differently in the future.
> 
> Ana - out


My wife said there is more to his wife's behavior that she is hiding from him.


Anastasia6 said:


> That's great that is what you would do. How about helping OP with the situation with his wife. The cat is already out of the bag. You divorcing over it?


I would say one Saturday night I was going with Frank and the guys to the strip club for his retirement party When she protests she does not like or agree with it, I would let her know she lost her say in the morality of what I am going to do when she was drooling over these guys johnsons and shoving bills in their crotches. And when you come dragging in the next day...tell her same again and then say that is all I'm going to say about it!

Don't mean you have to go, just make yourself scarce. Hell better yet Batchelor party in Vegas for few days. Only way a woman like this might actually GET IT!


----------



## ConanHub

Anastasia6 said:


> So to catch you up. The wife went to her daughters party that she didn't plan or even know she was going to be invited to. went to a strip club and gave one of the guys some money.
> 
> He should have divorced her yesterday already.


Gave a guy some money. How innocent. LoL!


----------



## ConanHub

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh I thiink it's a grand idea she can go into retirement with half of everything they have and since she is such a wild sexual deviant she won't have any trouble finding a partner.


She won't have any trouble stuffing money in a strippers g string but finding a mate that would put up with her bull **** is probably far fetched in her sixties.

Nothing as classy as an older woman acting the way she has been the last few years at bachelorette parties.

I know I would be targeting the weird lady chasing men in restrooms to take pictures (of what I wonder?) and getting caught with her hand down the stripper's undies.

Yeah her options are probably outstanding.😉


----------



## ElOtro

Anastasia6 said:


> It's us against the world


Standing applauses on this.
By the way, no matter whose fault, that´s what OP relationship is in lack of.
IF they had this, they would visit together hell itself (allow me such figurative image) with no space for oppotunistic others.
They would find laughable the pitty caricature that mimic and devaluate true seducction compared with the passion of their own intimacy.
But that would come from being rebellious and mutually accomplices and not merelly the sorry role of hidden individual transgressions for just one of them.
IMO, that´s the core of this. Far more serious than the rethorical distinctions between the factual and it´s interpretations.


----------



## Anastasia6

ElOtro said:


> Standing applauses on this.
> By the way, no matter whose fault, that´s what OP relationship is in lack of.
> IF they had this, they would visit together hell itself (allow me such figurative image) with no space for oppotunistic others.
> They would find laughable the pitty caricature that mimic and devaluate true seducction compared with the passion of their own intimacy.
> But that would come from being rebellious and mutually accomplices and not merelly the sorry role of hidden individual transgressions for just one of them.
> IMO, that´s the core of this. Far more serious than the rethorical distinctions between the factual and it´s interpretations.


But here’s the thing how do they get there, the standing together. Both seem to not have a desire to be each other’s.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh I thiink it's a grand idea she can go into retirement with half of everything they have and since she is such a wild sexual deviant she won't have any trouble finding a partner.
> 
> He'll go into retirement with half of everything they have and daughters who are going to think they caused their parents divorce. I'm sure it will have a loving effect on his relationship with them. But hey as an older church man he will have the pick of any of the other single church ladies. There is no doubt that women in church out number men by miles.
> 
> He'll be able to set a firm boundary with the next one because he'll tell her that he divorced his first wife over it. So she'll know.... Except he probably won't tell her because he isn't good at communication either.


She was the one who set the boundary from the start...just not for herself evidently.


----------



## jlg07

Anastasia6 said:


> If I were her. I'd be like ok he's not happy but they also aren't naked


Are you related to Bill Clinton? That is clearly parsing words so that SHE could justify what she did (if she did that).


----------



## Anastasia6

Divinely Favored said:


> She was the one who set the boundary from the start...just not for herself evidently.


And what’s your point? She crossed it yep. Check. What is an appropriate response for OP? You see I really don’t want to play the role of defending the wife. I wouldn’t behave the way she did. My husband wouldn’t behave the way he did.

I would like to offer the OP a reasonable path forward. But it seems TAM has decided she has given bathroom blowjobs and back room sex all planned well in advance.

we can posture all day long. People can talk about what they would do all day long. They can puff their chest and hold their knickers and say ohhh my. But there still should be a path forward.

Frankly though I think OP just came to get validation and not solutions. So he’s satisfied.


----------



## Anastasia6

jlg07 said:


> Are you related to Bill Clinton? That is clearly parsing words so that SHE could justify what she did (if she did that).


Yes I’m bill Clinton himself.


----------



## Anastasia6

sokillme said:


> If not for your 2000 posts I would think you were OP's wife.


Yes I’m the OP wife. 
Geez that one even better than the random Reddit post as evidence.


----------



## manwithnoname

Anastasia6 said:


> So to catch you up. The wife went to her daughters party that she didn't plan or even know she was going to be invited to. went to a strip club and* gave one of the guys some money.*
> 
> He should have divorced her yesterday already.


"Some people did some things" - Ilhan Omar

Your version is even more sanitized than the OP's wife's account. Why did she have to "give" any money at all? Assuming she didn't know where they were going (which has not been established), she would have found out eventually. She still decided to enter the establishment, decided to stay long enough for the weenies, and pulled money out waving it in the air, not knowing that an invisible force field was going to take control of her hand and make her stuff the dollar bills under the waist strap of a stripper's G string.

I know you're defending her more than you would have normally, because you feel she was made out to be some slutty ***** by some posters here, but what would your advice to the OP be, forgive and forget?


----------



## Divinely Favored

Anastasia6 said:


> And what’s your point? She crossed it yep. Check. What is an appropriate response for OP? You see I really don’t want to play the role of defending the wife. I wouldn’t behave the way she did. My husband wouldn’t behave the way he did.
> 
> I would like to offer the OP a reasonable path forward. But it seems TAM has decided she has given bathroom blowjobs and back room sex all planned well in advance.
> 
> we can posture all day long. People can talk about what they would do all day long. They can puff their chest and hold their knickers and say ohhh my. But there still should be a path forward.
> 
> Frankly though I think OP just came to get validation and not solutions. So he’s satisfied.


I would do some digging and find photos/video that are out there so he has an idea what all went on. I would also make sure my SIL had seen them and still wants to stay with daughter, Nut Sack Nancy.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes I’m bill Clinton himself.


"I did not have sexual relations with that stripper"


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Haven't heard from him in a while. I think reality may of hit like a brick wall. And he realizes that the religion is wearing off with her and she is wanting to explore.


----------



## ElOtro

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes I’m bill Clinton himself.


I am cousin of Shrek and I don´t brag about!


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Evinrude58 said:


> The stupid game and the strip club and trashy bachelorette party isn’t the problem here. If she discussed it and was open about it and just said it was stupid, childish fun and they had a great sexual relationship and the whole relationship in general was positive, I don’t think OP would be upset. I think even I could deal with that, because if this woman is a normal, decent woman, I can’t see a 60 yr old being all that turned on by this stuff either.
> 
> But she isn’t open. She’s secretive. She is turned on, or she would NOT participate. She could go and have fun and such without going in the men’s room (which is just plain stupid and dangerous), and putting money in guys underwear. She also wouldn’t be hurt snd disappointed that she was left. Out of such a childish, disrespectful event. I think 99% of decent men would be hugely hurt if their bride or fiancée went out and got teabagged at a strip club. It’s just hurtful. And I think me who have a desire to go bang a stripper at a bachelor party before their wedding— don’t deserve a bride. And yes, women do get turned on by make bodies and want to screw just like men. All this jabber about they are different……. Ha. Not my experience. They act a certain way like they aren’t until a man they’re highly attracted to gives them attention and their pants are off as fast as any man’s.
> Not all women, and not all men.
> But a good darned percentage.
> 
> going out to strip clubs just isn’t cool.
> She knew her husband wasn’t cool with it and did it anyway because he is so passive he asks if he needs to apologize to HER.
> 
> He’s a reasonable dude, but he needs to find his inner strength to give his wife some boundaries that she may already want. And he’d more than likely be fine. If he’s made it 36 yrs with her, and he can still perform in bed, there’s not huge reason she should suddenly go too out of hand. She did in fact inform him of the club and he was too passive to make his stance loud and clear. It’s partly, in a smallish way, on him what happened.


I suspect she hid it because her religious background makes her feel shameful about what she did. She knew she went against their long stand rule about strip clubs and the religion that has been preached to her. I think she was/is embarrassed and that often leads to a very weak lie, "nothing happened."


----------



## ElOtro

Anastasia6 said:


> it seems TAM has decided she has given bathroom blowjobs and back room sex all planned well in advance.


Don´t count me in the number.



Anastasia6 said:


> She crossed it yep


What I say is that _what is known is IMO quite enough_.



Anastasia6 said:


> But there still should be a path forward.


There is always one, not necessarilly together.



Anastasia6 said:


> I would like to offer the OP a reasonable path forward.


A reasonable one....that´s not a priori imposible or I hope so. 
But it may take a strong desire and actions quite more epic than the ones suggested by a soft diagnosis (no less imaginative than the one that portrait an orgy).



Anastasia6 said:


> But here’s the thing how do they get there, the standing together.


First things first, to know if they are in the same boat (not only the wish but necessarily also sharing same desription of the problem or ther wouldn´t agree on the solution). Are they?



Anastasia6 said:


> Both seem to not have a desire to be each other’s.


If this is near to truth, it´s worst than a waste of their time.
It would be better for both as outcome to take different roads than staying with scarce enthusiasm.



Anastasia6 said:


> What is an appropriate response for OP?


A conditional one.
Please allow me the time to articulate my thoughts about.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ConanHub said:


> She won't have any trouble stuffing money in a strippers g string but finding a mate that would put up with her bull **** is probably far fetched in her sixties.
> 
> Nothing as classy as an older woman acting the way she has been the last few years at bachelorette parties.
> 
> I know I would be targeting the weird lady chasing men in restrooms to take pictures (of what I wonder?) and getting caught with her hand down the stripper's undies.
> 
> Yeah her options are probably outstanding.😉


Them old ladies might be able to get some...


----------



## Evinrude58

I say an angry rant is in order, followed by actual papers shown and explained as a consequence of future disrespectful behavior—- and make sure he means it. The psssive nice guy routine gets nothing but further anguish. There’s not a thing wrong with some righteous anger being shown, along with the consequences of repeated behavior.

let’s face it, op doesn’t have it in him. The reason for the repeat to start with. Classic nice guy syndrome


----------



## BigDaddyNY

How would you like to see your soon to be wife like this? Quite the bride to be. Or your daughter?

Don't worry, no porn here, just over the top behavior for someone days away from getting married.


----------



## Diana7

My take on it is that she got drunk and make some really stupid decisions. She let others control her, maybe she is one of those people who are easily led. I dont think this is in anyway her wanting more of the same or suddenly changing into a wild woman. Personally I wouldn't trust her to go out with a group of women ever again though.

I was chatting to a young man who worked at the small gym we used to go to which was in a hotel.
The hotel used to hold occasional ladies weekends with male stripping. He said he does all he can not to be working those days and nights as the women are wild. He said he has never seen such appalling behaviour as on those nights. They were off the scale.


----------



## Talker67

BigDaddyNY said:


> How would you like to see your soon to be wife like this? Quite the bride to be. Or your daughter?
> 
> Don't worry, no porn here, just over the top behavior for someone days away from getting married.
> 
> View attachment 82785


well, at LEAST there was no donkey involved!


----------



## Talker67

manwithnoname said:


> "Some people did some things" - Ilhan Omar


You are cracking me up now!

😂😂😂


----------



## ElOtro

BigDaddyNY said:


> Them old ladies might be able to get some...


They never imagined it, but since OP´s wife courageously explored that unknown path just to give them some educative example.........


----------



## ElOtro

Talker67 said:


> well, at LEAST there was no donkey involved!


Ahhhhhhhhhhh that´s different!
No divorce if no donkey involved, right?
Isn´t it the very definition of an "only" EA?


----------



## Talker67

Wait, i just figured her out.
She is a religious MISSIONARY.
She entered the wicked den of lascivious ways to lead all the women there to Jesus!

We've got her motives all wrong!


----------



## ElOtro

Talker67 said:


> She entered the wicked den of lascivious ways to lead all the women there to Jesus!
> We've got her motives all wrong!


....and you tell us this NOW!!!


----------



## oldshirt

Talker67 said:


> well, at LEAST there was no donkey involved!


It’s the little things that count LOL.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Talker67 said:


> well, at LEAST there was no donkey involved!


I had an older lady employee that raised miniature donkeys like house pets. She got to wondering if they have shows like dog shows....she googled donkey show and got much more than she bargained for.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Divinely Favored said:


> I had an older lady employee that raised miniature donkeys like house pets. She got to wondering if they have shows like dog shows....she googled donkey show and got much more than she bargained for.


Lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I am old enough that I have seen people I know who live than religious lifestyle. As they got older they went, what the heck was I thinking!! I have missed out on so much of my life!

I still say that in my opinion, religion is the biggest and most outdated con on the human race. Just watch a 3am infomercial on Peter Poppoff and his vial of miracle water that will change your life 🤣.

I swear, every one I know who strictly follows religion regrets it and wishes they could go back in time. They blame their parents for not knowing any better


----------



## Diana7

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> I am old enough that I have seen people I know who live than religious lifestyle. As they got older they went, what the heck was I thinking!! I have missed out on so much of my life!
> 
> I still say that in my opinion, religion is the biggest and most outdated con on the human race. Just watch a 3am infomercial on Peter Poppoff and his vial of miracle water that will change your life 🤣.
> 
> I swear, every one I know who strictly follows religion regrets it and wishes they could go back in time. They blame their parents for not knowing any better


I know countless people who have never regretted it. Including myself and Mr D. Best way to live by far. 😉


----------



## Talker67

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> I am old enough that I have seen people I know who live than religious lifestyle. As they got older they went, what the heck was I thinking!! I have missed out on so much of my life!
> 
> I still say that in my opinion, religion is the biggest and most outdated con on the human race. Just watch a 3am infomercial on Peter Poppoff and his vial of miracle water that will change your life 🤣.
> 
> I swear, every one I know who strictly follows religion regrets it and wishes they could go back in time. They blame their parents for not knowing any better


we can not tell. maybe she was a devout and pious person, and then something happened to rock her beliefs. She prayed heavily for some miracle to happen, and it never did. The priest hit on her sexually, and it shocked her to her core. One of her churchgoing best friends told her she was having a torrid affair, and was encouraging her to be more sexual. She could just have an elevated libido from hormonal changes due to age.

Who knows. all we can guess is that something DID change in her, and at least for these two events, she was acting like a horny little minx.

And yes, there are plenty of people that would never step out of the religious mold. Either they are truly devout, or Asexual.


----------



## Diana7

Talker67 said:


> we can not tell. maybe she was a devout and pious person, and then something happened to rock her beliefs. She prayed heavily for some miracle to happen, and it never did. The priest hit on her sexually, and it shocked her to her core. One of her churchgoing best friends told her she was having a torrid affair, and was encouraging her to be more sexual. She could just have an elevated libido from hormonal changes due to age.
> 
> Who knows. all we can guess is that something DID change in her, and at least for these two events, she was acting like a horny little minx.
> 
> And yes, there are plenty of people that would never step out of the religious mold. Either they are truly devout, or Asexual.


Some people just act badly when they are drinking. Others Are very easily led. I suspect both in her case. 
For many it's not about being in a 'religious mould' but just recognising the fact that some things are damaging for a marriage.
Even if I wasn't a Christian being with a bunch of drunk women embarrassing themselves isn't appealing.


----------



## Young at Heart

BigDaddyNY said:


> I suspect she hid it because her religious background makes her feel shameful about what she did. She knew she went against their long stand rule about strip clubs and the religion that has been preached to her. I think she was/is embarrassed and that often leads to a very weak lie, "nothing happened."


You might be on to something. Only she may have also like the titillation factor as well. Often engaging in the illusion of a taboo activity can be quite exciting and lead to shared secretes.

In my moderately crazy youth, I was my house social chairman my sophomore year of college. That involved a lot of things from organizing keg parties, hiring strippers for some of the stag keg parties, renting event halls, catering, arranging coed mixers, campus dances as a fund raiser for my house, romantic night time coed boat cruise, and.......... a coed mixer to a local burlesque theater show. 

Yes, it was a pathetic interpretation of old fashioned burlesque. Kind of R rated by today's standards. No full frontal nudity, but fans, balloons, etc. Some exaggerated fully and semi-clothed bump and grind to music. Corny off-color jokes. 

Actually, the women's house social chair wanted to make it a regular annual event in our house calendars, because of the feedback she got. It turns out, it was naughty enough but not raunchy enough that the women liked it and talked about it for days. they really bonded over it and those that missed it felt really left out. Also some of the women especially enjoyed it because they got to say thing that made some of the guys very uncomfortable.

You can see far more suggestive stuff on today's music video's.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> I am old enough that I have seen people I know who live than religious lifestyle. As they got older they went, what the heck was I thinking!! I have missed out on so much of my life!
> 
> I still say that in my opinion, religion is the biggest and most outdated con on the human race. Just watch a 3am infomercial on Peter Poppoff and his vial of miracle water that will change your life 🤣.
> 
> I swear, every one I know who strictly follows religion regrets it and wishes they could go back in time. They blame their parents for not knowing any betteren on a


Religion will send you to hell. Big difference between "religious" and True Christianity. I had lived the "worldly" life for over forty years. Left me empty and always looking for more, as something was missing. I found it in 2017. It was the Holy Ghost. 

I am Apostolic Pentecostal. Some call it bondage....my family has never felt more free and alive. My regrets?...that I did not get serious about Jesus and the Holy Ghost, a lot sooner. I have experienced miracles and seen others. Have seen stuff that will make the hair on the back of your neck stand up and freak your crap out!

My life is more complete than it has ever been. My wife and I, now have an amazing marriage, I retire next week so we can spend more time together. 

Don't get me started on most of those so called Christians on TV. Wolves in sheep's clothing. There are big differences between TV fakes that will pray with you for $39.95, "Easter Christians" and true Christians. 

There will be many "Christians" who say "Lord, Lord" and He will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you" These fake Sunday and Easter only "Christians" are going to be in serious trouble when they stand in judgement, then they will know what true regret really is. When Jesus tells them, they were not part of the solution, they were part of the problem ...with playing church and hypocrite behavior.


----------



## Diana7

Divinely Favored said:


> Religion will send you to hell. Big difference between "religious" and True Christianity. I had lived the "worldly" life for over forty years. Left me empty and always looking for more, as something was missing. I found it in 2017. It was the Holy Ghost.
> 
> I am Apostolic Pentecostal. Some call it bondage....my family has never felt more free and alive. My regrets?...that I did not get serious about Jesus and the Holy Ghost, a lot sooner. I have experienced miracles and seen others. Have seen stuff that will make the hair on the back of your neck stand up and freak your crap out!
> 
> My life is more complete than it has ever been. My wife and I, now have an amazing marriage, I retire next week so we can spend more time together.
> 
> Don't get me started on most of those so called Christians on TV. Wolves in sheep's clothing. There are big differences between TV fakes that will pray with you for $39.95, "Easter Christians" and true Christians.
> 
> There will be many "Christians" who say "Lord, Lord" and He will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you" These fake Sunday and Easter only "Christians" are going to be in serious trouble when they stand in judgement, then they will know what true regret really is. When Jesus tells them, they were not part of the solution, they were part of the problem ...with playing church and hypocrite behavior.


Those tv evangelists are not representative of Christians at all as we both know. I never watch them. Most are charlitans. 
I have to wonder if the OP's wife is 'religious' as opposed to a follower of Christ. A lot of RC' s are like that. (Not all)
No Christian I have ever known would go to church and then on to see a stripper. Or go and see a stripper at all. Sooo hypocritical.


----------



## CrAzYdOgLaDy

Isn't it illegal to follow men or women into the toilets and taking photos of them peeing? She's lucky the men didn't complain. I have a hen party in the summer because my daughter is getting married. We are booking into a 5 star Hotel for a night or two and having massages, facials, manicures, pedicures, champagne with our meals and a champagne breakfast. We get to use all the hotels facilities like pools, entertainment, bars, restaurants etc. Age range of our group are from 12 years old up to 80's, so no crazy will be happening with a child there. No strippers. I'm really looking forward to it.


----------



## ElOtro

Diana7 said:


> No Christian I have ever known would go to church and then on to see a stripper. Or go and see a stripper at all. Sooo hypocritical.


May I NOT go to see strippers just because I find it pathetically boring even being single?
And also because when the woman I loved more than life was still alive I found more Eros only between us than what I would even dreamed it was posible in my past? And we called it love?
With my full respect for the ones that find their way in their faiths, sorry if I don´t need a commandment for this.
I don´t know if call it morals and honestly I don´t care if it is or not.
I didn´t had eyes for another woman when she was on earth.
Whatever may say any moral code.

Of course, this is only personal.
Others follow their own path.


----------



## farsidejunky

1Adam12 said:


> I agree her mind is likely not slipping, she wanted a moment or two without me or anything judging her. I could use the same.


Admittedly, I am only half way through this thread. So this may be dated.

Tell her you are going to one of those "massage places"...the kind with the happy ending. Then immediately tell her you are never to speak of this again.

Not suggesting you should actually do it...but it would be interesting to see her reaction. 

Your wife is full of ****, dude. 

And you are allowing it.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## ccpowerslave

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Isn't it illegal to follow men or women into the toilets and taking photos of them peeing? She's lucky the men didn't complain. I have a hen party in the summer because my daughter is getting married. We are booking into a 5 star Hotel for a night or two and having massages, facials, manicures, pedicures, champagne with our meals and a champagne breakfast. We get to use all the hotels facilities like pools, entertainment, bars, restaurants etc. Age range of our group are from 12 years old up to 80's, so no crazy will be happening with a child there. No strippers. I'm really looking forward to it.


You described exactly what has happened recently when my wife has had the call of duty. Five star hotel with spa, champagne, etc…

I greatly prefer this version.


----------



## CrAzYdOgLaDy

ccpowerslave said:


> You described exactly what has happened recently when my wife has had the call of duty. Five star hotel with spa, champagne, etc…
> 
> I greatly prefer this version.


Yes this version is so much better and we all leave feeling amazing. Glad your wife enjoyed.


----------



## Diana7

ElOtro said:


> May I NOT go to see strippers just because I find it pathetically boring even being single?
> And also because when the woman I loved more than life was still alive I found more Eros only between us than what I would even dreamed it was posible in my past? And we called it love?
> With my full respect for the ones that find their way in their faiths, sorry if I don´t need a commandment for this.
> I don´t know if call it morals and honestly I don´t care if it is or not.
> I didn´t had eyes for another woman when she was on earth.
> Whatever may say any moral code.
> 
> Of course, this is only personal.
> Others follow their own path.


I was only mentioning faith because the ops wife has faith. 
Loads of people with a faith or none wouldn't do what she did. Like yourself. I wouldn't go either if I wasn't a Christian.


----------



## wmn1

jlg07 said:


> So my take -- your wife was wrong for BOTH incidents. She SHOULD NOT have gone to the strip club, PERIOD. You had that as a boundary for your marriage -- and yet SHE decided to blow it off.
> 
> If she is against it for YOU, then she needs to be against it for HER. Her being "forced" to touch the strippers -- BS.
> She WANTED to do that.
> Face it, she wanted to be a bit wild after so many years of NOT doing that sort of stuff. You really need to talk with her.
> Tell her that YOU are going to a strip club with the guys, and she how SHE reacts. I BET she would be pissed.
> You had even told her no more BS like the first incident -- again, she ignored boundaries that your marriage had.
> 
> As for THIS:
> "a video of our daughter being teabagged up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job. "
> 
> Umm WHAT? You're afraid for her JOB? What about her poor future husband? Don't you think HE deserves to know what she got up to at her "party"? Also, how do you know your wife didn't join in with that "because she was forced to do it"? You should make sure you look at her phone, and whoever else you got that video from to see if she got up to anything else.
> 
> I certainly understand how you have NO trust in what your wife says about this. She "FINALLY" told you that she touched a stripper, but that was after badgering her. What did she NOT tell you?
> 
> I think you need to make it clear to her how much damage she did to your relationship and that you basically have zero trust in her right now.


This !!!!!


----------



## wmn1

manwithnoname said:


> Religion or not, society has gone for a *. People have low morals and no shame. It was your wife who was responsible for the "no strip club" rule you had in your marriage all those years. Somewhere along the line she changed her mind. And she purposely only let you know when it was "too late" and she couldn't leave. *****. She could have left one minute after going in there. She could have not gone in there.
> 
> I'd be super pissed, because it was her own rule she broke.
> 
> Have fun at the bachelor party.


This too !!!!!!


----------



## wmn1

Evinrude58 said:


> Yes, it’s all your fault. You shoulda bought her more flowers, told her she was pretty, and gave her more general attention. SMH.
> Your wife’s shenanigans are her own fault. But I’m sure she and her therapist can dream up a way to make you own it , and believe you can fix it, and leave her with zero consequences if that’s what you need to avoid getting out of your comfort zone and dealing with this properly. Sorry for the 2x4, but you need it badly. What would you tell your son if his wife was doing what yours is doing?


agreed with this. He doesn't need to see a therapist. They love to spread the blame. She needs to go see one.


----------



## wmn1

ConanHub said:


> Your wife and daughters are kind of gross?
> 
> How do your sons in law feel about their new wife's behavior?
> 
> Your wife is acting as screwy as a squirrel on meth.
> 
> Is she having medical problems?
> 
> It's your call and you've been with her almost a decade longer than I've been with Mrs. C but I don't play.
> 
> If we had established the boundaries you had, we have similar ones, and she disrespected me the way your wife did, not once, but twice including fondling stripper penis, I would have papers served and it would be up to her to somehow convince me why she would even be worth keeping.
> 
> It's up to you but decisive actions get far better results than just pondering or trying to talk to a woman who already set boundaries and has spit in your face over her own standards twice.
> 
> Not that I'm suggesting it but how would she like it if you took some money that you both agreed would be for something you two were going to do together and instead you used it to go out with some wild young men and got lap dances?
> 
> Now my wife and are are committed Christians so I wouldn't get payback but I would walk away from a ridiculous woman who has clearly lost her mind.


this post is why you are one of my favorites here


----------



## wmn1

ccpowerslave said:


> I can say with some of the people I know if you brought a church boy to a bachelor party and somehow he was dumb enough to go to a strip club these guys would be giving the strippers major cash to corrupt the guy just for a laugh.
> 
> It’s part of the reason I have never been to a strip club. The people who go to them are looking to drag you down into their low down dirty rats nest they live in so they feel better about themselves.
> 
> I hope your wife didn’t do anything but I know at some of these parties the women perform actual sex acts. Then I REALLY hope none of that is on tape somewhere.
> 
> Not sure why people think they need to do this.


AMEN !!!! It doesn't need to be done and is disgusting


----------



## wmn1

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh don't start making this your own fault. Honestly it probably makes her feel young and hip to hang around with her daughter and her daughter's friends and that's probably all it's really about. It's honestly kind of a cliche.


but still very wrong


----------



## wmn1

ConanHub said:


> So these "church" ladies gathered at church and then went to a male review and engaged in various sex acts, including groping genitals and some type of oral? I don't know what teabagging is but it sounds like your daughter was using her face on the guys junk.
> 
> Just what kind of church is this???


no doubt


----------



## wmn1

Talker67 said:


> what others have said about the uber religious types being sexual hypocrites is 100% true. many get caught in multiple infidelities, including the preachers. So there is that...she maybe acting the part of a religious christian, but really is nothing of the sort.
> 
> but there is another possibility that sounds more plausible to me. being very "religious", she probably did not drink much normally. then she gets to this party, and the girls are buying her drinks, and she does not know how to drink, can not handle the booze, flips out, an a 2nd personality pops out....a slutty one that she represses normally. And that 2nd personality took over, had a good time, drank much more, and did sexual things she only fantasized about. If this is the case, she is one of those people who should never have another drop of whiskey in their lives....they are bipolar when drinking.


good point


----------



## wmn1

Tdbo said:


> The only thing you are lacking is the intestinal fortitude for appropriate sanctions.
> You have been disrespected twice by your wife.
> You have two daughters, that on two different occasions, aided and abetted the undermining of your relationship with your wife.
> I'd draw the conclusion that at least two of your three daughters have no respect for their "Dear Old Dad."
> I'd say that not only does your wife not have respect for you, but she is a flaming hypocrite to boot. You need to change that dynamic through some strong action.
> I'd say that you need to explore your relationship with your daughters. They need to atone for, and experience proper payback for their disrespect.
> All three of them need to understand that their relationship with you hangs in the balance. I'd have had some real issues with participating in either of their weddings after their alleged "Rite of Passage."
> Unless you can find a rumpled old man in a lab coat with a Delorean and a Flux Capacitor, there is not much that you can do about the first wedding.
> However, you can extract a pound of flesh on the second.
> I agree with Conan .I'd just blow the damn thing wide open and make her justify why you ought to remain married.
> I'd let both your daughters know that their actions have put your marriage, and their relationship with their dad, in jeopardy.
> Tell them that with daughters like them, who needs enemies?
> Put the onus on the three of them to make their cases.
> Make sure that they are scared s**tless.
> You have to decide what payback looks like for you. I know that I (especially after the second event,) would be lawyering up. Have some respect for yourself. Break them.
> At a minimum, a set of divorce papers from the internet for your jurisdiction, properly placed on your kitchen table, can be motivational.
> What I do know, is that if you don't get a handle on it now, you will be experiencing the same thing again when #3 gets married.



this is EPIC and takes the flame out of my planned first response (though late) in this thread. Tdbo and I think the same. Every sentence is spot on. Every last one


----------



## wmn1

sokillme said:


> This one hits home for me, I have skipped so many bachelor parties out of respect for my wife, if she turned around and did that I would be lived. Go to the next one.
> 
> Yeah that is bull, and you daughters pulling her in makes it worse. They seem to have no respect for you or the marriage.
> 
> Stop being so nice. Your wife and your daughters obviously has grown comfortable and have NO FEAR. A little fear is good. The fact that you even have to write this post probably means you already WAY TOO NICE. People who are nice and accommodating get bullied, even in marriage.
> 
> Besides the whole trust thing, I would tell her much of your effort to be respectful to you seems like a waste. Then there would be many nights I would be going down to the bar to eat dinner away from home. Let your wife sit alone a home and think about what that life will be like.
> 
> If she brings it up, just brush her off. "Yeah I am going out tonight". Then go get a nice dinner and watch the game somewhere, or whatever.
> 
> After about a few weeks of that I would just state, "I am struggling with the fact that I think we have grown to have different morals." If she wants to argue just leave. No arguments, statements and no discussion. "What are you going to say? You participated in our daughter having pictures taken of some strangers genitals in her fact a few weeks before she was getting married?" Who are you? Gross." Those are the kind of cold and biting statements that should be coming out of your mouth.
> 
> Your son-in-laws are nuts by the way, they should be running away as fast as they can.


agreed. Let her wallow at home. OP hopefully took Sokillme's advice here


----------



## wmn1

Evinrude58 said:


> It’s a real shame that OP has lived his life one way according to his wife’s demands of all this piety, and then she not only encourages, but participated in their wild bachelorette parties that most non-Christians wouldn’t even do. And his wife participates to the extent of “ “touching” Strippers and following men into restrooms—— then pretending she was pressure or coerced by peer pressure (her daughters????)………
> 
> I’d wager OP has been told a very tame story of the extent of his wife’s lurid activities at these parties, and that his wife and daughters are laughing about it behind his back.
> Nobody that does this kind of stuff and yet portrays themselves as churchgoing Christians wants their squeaky clean image tarnished. She’s lying.
> I really don’t even know how OP should handle this. He’s been betrayed by his wife and his own daughters. Really a sad situation.
> I’m very sorry OP. This is beyond my understanding.


100% 100%


----------



## wmn1

drencrom said:


> Since I will forever remain single with no commitments, this isn't an issue for me now.
> 
> But when I was all about love and faithfulness, never would I be with a woman that felt the need to go to strip clubs. I find it downright disrespectful. If they feel the need to do that, they don't need to be in a committed relationship.
> 
> Also, strip clubs and certain activities at bachelor/bachelorette parties....if they feel the need for one more flings or enjoyment of the opposite sex, then IMO they will not make faithful partners.
> 
> OP, your wife is wrong and I'd be more than pissed if I were you.


agreed


----------



## wmn1

OK, I just read the first 12 pages of this but cut it off after that because the OP is not seeking to manage a situation but simply try educating himself on something while acting hurt. He said it right there on page 12 so I stopped wasting time right then.

So, and yes these threads show up on the internet, I will post my response to the general topic so others can get my opinion in case someone who shows up here objecting to their wives or husband's behavior can do.

So I will give my one piece here and leave it alone.

First of all, I am a traditionalist. I hate these types of parties, I have open marriage and I hate deviant behavior. But I am also a Libertarian and as long as you keep it away from me and my family, whatever. But it's sickening.

In this story, we have a completely hypocritical wife who has lied, manipulated, rugswept her behavior at least during her first 2 daughter's bachlorette parties with a 3rd one in the future and he hasn't even done much to stop the behavior. She is the epic faith filled, loving wife and mom who has the church behind her back while holding other men's junk in defiance of her husband and her agreement.

Now he is here after spending 40 years with what he thought was a trustworthy God like figure and he doesn't even know who she is anymore. The line about going from church to a strip joing was mind blowing but in today's immoral world not a shock. And yes, guy strippers do get away with more and follow through more as I've heard.

The problem is with all who assumed that these multiple night trips didn't involve anything else, that his wife has been clean for 40 years minus 2 incidents. No research, no history despite these 2 incidents shows a major rugsweeping issue here to me.

I get the attitude of don't blow it up over 2 incidents where there wasn't penetration but he doesn't even know that. He doesn't know what he's forgiving, he has liked many posts which is soft on his wife. This guy is trying to validate forgiving her and rugsweeping. Meanwhile, strike 3 is on the way as Tbdo mentioned.

To me, strip clubs and active involvement physically with them plus private rooms are cheating. Lying is cheating. She wasn't forced to stay or touch anyone.

I also agree with those who said poor Mr Husband 2 is getting married to only knows what her moral values are. I wouldn't pay for that dumpster fire if I was the bride's dad.

Now he has a wife who has changed her values, deviated from them or never has had them in the first place.

He has 2 daughters who laid out avenue for mom to be aslut, encouraged or didn't stop her from being one and then became one themselves. I never understood why it was never acceptable to a guy to have another man lay his junk on your fiancee's face except right before you get married to her.

These parties are junk and weak excuses to cheat and be deviant.

This guy's wife never faced consequences, she's done more than he wants to know and more than she admits to him. But at about 60, the divorce is too high and I get that.

I was fully on board with OP until he said his intent here is to figure out how two people could be so off. I applaud him for his lifetime of ethics and morals by the way. However, maybe he should be emailing a researcher from Yale for the answers of these questions since it seems to be one, more of education, than actually stopping a lunatic course of action from his own wife


BigDaddyNY said:


> How would you like to see your soon to be wife like this? Quite the bride to be. Or your daughter?
> 
> Don't worry, no porn here, just over the top behavior for someone days away from getting married.
> 
> View attachment 82785






no doubt. Great post. Agreed and truth


----------



## wmn1

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree. And to further speculate, I suspect the daughter didn’t want to show out with her buds with a bunch of teabagging strippers, because either she was uncomfortable with her mom seeing all that, or your suspicion that she got drunk and had way too much fun with strippers in the previous sister’s party and was embarrassed by mom’s behavior.
> 
> I think whatever the speculation is, ol’ mom likes strippers and wild parties, but doesn’t want old hubby involved with any of it.
> 
> If she’s in her 60’s and been a good wife all this time, maybe he CAN just ignore it and continue on. The problem I see is that the wife ignores his feelings, isn’t following her rules set in place for him, disrespects him, etc——
> So OP is going to have to determine what he’s willing to do in order to stop the behavior, or just knuckle up and accept the Poo sammich like a good little hubby should (in his wife’s mind).
> 
> In my mind, a lesson needs to be taught by OP exposing her to the same disrespect and worry that he’s been treated to, so she will know how it feels at least. Although that may not stop her, since she clearly is good at eating her stripper porridge while denying the same of her partner (although he doesn’t want it anyway).


I agree Evin.

I am posting my last reply now. I think this guy is going to take the emotional beatdown and just ride with it based on his responses. 

His wife is a real peach though and now has his daughters teaming up on her side in the country of Infidelity. It's sad the family disrespects him so badly. He does sound like a great guy so deserving of so much more.

I know it's hard throwing away 40 years for 2 incidents. I am sure if he dug harder, there may be more but not my fight to play out.

If he was pissed and trying to get to the bottom of this and make his wife accountable, I would stick around. 

That's not the case here


----------



## wmn1

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Yep, I did get the quote. My point is this older generation woman, approaching her last phases in life, made a mistake for sure but made a mistake perhaps in a moment of hey wtf, and really slipped yes, out with her daughter and perhaps thought well sh!t I'm not screwing anyone, nobody is stripping me to make me screw anyone, I'm going to just see what this about and jumped the shark.
> 
> Because the M has been great, many yrs of being the good woman, she had a moment and screwed up. If there weren't years of being the responsible role model behind her and the M I'd think different. Here she made a mistake at this age and with decades of being straight laced W.
> 
> I don't think it's as bad as being reported, in reality. She didn't fool around and have sex with others.
> 
> So he who is perfect let him cast the first stone.
> 
> Let the old W have a whoops [email protected] moment. It's the H that's embellishing the story tremendously imho so there's more sympathy for himself, and get more mileage.
> 
> That's just my two sense. I understand others may have different opinion but that's ok. Small minds and all that.
> 
> So I say cut the old woman a break.


I don't. She screwed up and when this guy is at an agre where he can't do anything about it.

Being a good wife is a lifelong endeavor. You don't get bonus credits for being a good wife for 35 years and get to use them at your will when you hit 60. When you hit 60 is when you should be on your full 'I love my man/woman game' and not do this.

If he is perfect at 60 and she does this, it's him with 2 black eyes in the hospital, not her.

His wife is a hypocrite and hdoesn't have the morals she held him to forever. No slack


----------



## wmn1

ConanHub said:


> He was making fun of the sentiment that this "church" lady, touching stripper penis wasn't a big deal or more than it appears.
> 
> I personally don't care if there was more. Her behavior as presented would be too ridiculous and disrespectful for me to do anything but walk away from her mess and see what she was going to do, wether she didn't want to work on the marriage she damaged or try to repair it and convince me with whatever reasons to even still consider staying with someone not grown up enough to even follow her own rules, the ball would be in her court. She's the one that screwed up.


agreed, Conan. Agreed


----------



## wmn1

OK, I just read the first 12 pages of this but cut it off after that because the OP is not seeking to manage a situation but simply try educating himself on something while acting hurt. He said it right there on page 12 so I stopped wasting time right then. 

So, and yes these threads show up on the internet, I will post my response to the general topic so others can get my opinion in case someone who shows up here objecting to their wives or husband's behavior can do.

So I will give my one piece here and leave it alone.

First of all, I am a traditionalist. I hate these types of parties, I have open marriage and I hate deviant behavior. But I am also a Libertarian and as long as you keep it away from me and my family, whatever. But it's sickening.

In this story, we have a completely hypocritical wife who has lied, manipulated, rugswept her behavior at least during her first 2 daughter's bachlorette parties with a 3rd one in the future and he hasn't even done much to stop the behavior. She is the epic faith filled, loving wife and mom who has the church behind her back while holding other men's junk in defiance of her husband and her agreement. 

Now he is here after spending 40 years with what he thought was a trustworthy God like figure and he doesn't even know who she is anymore. The line about going from church to a strip joing was mind blowing but in today's immoral world not a shock. And yes, guy strippers do get away with more and follow through more as I've heard. 

The problem is with all who assumed that these multiple night trips didn't involve anything else, that his wife has been clean for 40 years minus 2 incidents. No research, no history despite these 2 incidents shows a major rugsweeping issue here to me.

I get the attitude of don't blow it up over 2 incidents where there wasn't penetration but he doesn't even know that. He doesn't know what he's forgiving, he has liked many posts which is soft on his wife. This guy is trying to validate forgiving her and rugsweeping. Meanwhile, strike 3 is on the way as Tbdo mentioned. 

To me, strip clubs and active involvement physically with them plus private rooms are cheating. Lying is cheating. She wasn't forced to stay or touch anyone. 

I also agree with those who said poor Mr Husband 2 is getting married to only knows what her moral values are. I wouldn't pay for that dumpster fire if I was the bride's dad.

Now he has a wife who has changed her values, deviated from them or never has had them in the first place.

He has 2 daughters who laid out avenue for mom to be aslut, encouraged or didn't stop her from being one and then became one themselves. I never understood why it was never acceptable to a guy to have another man lay his junk on your fiancee's face except right before you get married to her.

These parties are junk and weak excuses to cheat and be deviant.

This guy's wife never faced consequences, she's done more than he wants to know and more than she admits to him. But at about 60, the divorce is too high and I get that.

I was fully on board with OP until he said his intent here is to figure out how two people could be so off. I applaud him for his lifetime of ethics and morals by the way. However, maybe he should be emailing a researcher from Yale for the answers of these questions since it seems to be one, more of education, than actually stopping a lunatic course of action from his own wife


----------



## ccpowerslave

wmn1 said:


> First of all, I am a traditionalist. I hate these types of parties, I have open marriage and I hate deviant behavior. But I am also a Libertarian and as long as you keep it away from me and my family, whatever. But it's sickening.


Same here, if you want to do it, do it. I am never going to be that person’s friend or anything like that but I also don’t want to stop anyone from doing anything.


----------



## wmn1

ccpowerslave said:


> Same here, if you want to do it, do it. I am never going to be that person’s friend or anything like that but I also don’t want to stop anyone from doing anything.


exactly.


----------



## drencrom

1Adam12 said:


> I agree her mind is likely not slipping, she wanted a moment or two without me or anything judging her. I could use the same.


You could use the same. What's good for her is good for you. Do what you want, we already know she will.


----------



## drencrom

SunCMars said:


> His wife is a sexual being.
> A long repressed one, for sure.


Long repressed by her own rules.


----------



## drencrom

LATERILUS79 said:


> I apologize if this has been asked before. I’ve only mildly scanned through this thread.
> 
> the second daughter really didn’t want your wife at the bachelorette party, right?
> 
> why is that? What does she know that would make her not want her mother there?


I think the explanation was there was a limit set on the number of people and when one person backed out then she was invited.


----------



## drencrom

Talker67 said:


> Thank you, Sigmund.
> 
> we all need to remember that.
> 
> maybe she just had too many bills in her purse, and needed to stuff them somewhere.


And the following men into the bathroom that weren't even strippers?


----------



## drencrom

1Adam12 said:


> I only said the W said she expected naked weeners after drag show.


Well then you should go out and expect some nice boobs in your face somewhere. I'd say follow some women into the bathroom, but they are a little more standoffish about it than the men your wife followed.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

1Adam12 said:


> I only said the W said she expected naked weeners after drag show.


Maybe because she didn't know exactly the format, or maybe she did. Your call.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Just eating popcorn, still watching folks lose their mind about this ad nauseam. 

If I had the gif, guy eating popcorn here..


----------



## Talker67

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Just eating popcorn, still watching folks lose their mind about this ad nauseam.
> 
> If I had the gif, guy eating popcorn here..












best i could do on short notice.


----------



## drencrom

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You say she's a hypocrite, why? Would one not say she's an imperfect human?


I'd say both.


----------



## Cynthia

drencrom said:


> Well then you should go out and expect some nice boobs in your face somewhere. I'd say follow some women into the bathroom, but they are a little more standoffish about it than the men your wife followed.


Following women into the bathroom could end very badly. He could find himself talking to the police, thrown out of the bar, and/or beat up.


----------



## drencrom

Cynthia said:


> Following women into the bathroom could end very badly. He could find himself talking to the police, thrown out of the bar, and/or beat up.


Yup, hence why I added the "but" in there.


----------



## MiaMia0930

While you do have every right to feel upset and/or hurt by her actions, hopefully I can help you understand how men and women view these things differently.
Men are more visually stimulated, thus you are likely assuming the same is true for your wife. However, women need emotional connections far more than visual stimulation. Why do you think it’s more common to see women in fields of work that require seeing people undressed (nursing, strip clubs, etc..) we just don’t really pay attention to it. A body is a body to us, it’s neither a turn on or a second thought. But, we also know that isn’t the case for most men, not all, but most. That’s where people assume it’s a double standard, when really it comes down to one meaning far more than the other. It means nothing to most women to see naked men. For most men, it’s sexually stimulating to see a naked woman. Women often go to male strip clubs for laughs, not sexual stimulation lol (men in banana hammocks are hilarious looking to be honest). Men frequent strip clubs for the sex stimulation (naked women, lap dances, and flirty conversations). I would honestly just chock it up to your wife having laughs (similar to a comedy show).
As for the first incident, that was highly inappropriate of her following men into a restroom and photographing it. In fact, I’d say it was downright perverted. If my husband had come home one night and said, “a woman followed me into the mens room and took a pic of my ****” I would be furious and likely asking for security footage to be pulled to press charges. Why? Because that is 1000% sexual harassment.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

MiaLancer69 said:


> While you do have every right to feel upset and/or hurt by her actions, hopefully I can help you understand how men and women view these things differently.
> Men are more visually stimulated, thus you are likely assuming the same is true for your wife. However, women need emotional connections far more than visual stimulation. Why do you think it’s more common to see women in fields of work that require seeing people undressed (nursing, strip clubs, etc..) we just don’t really pay attention to it. A body is a body to us, it’s neither a turn on or a second thought. But, we also know that isn’t the case for most men, not all, but most. That’s where people assume it’s a double standard, when really it comes down to one meaning far more than the other. It means nothing to most women to see naked men. For most men, it’s sexually stimulating to see a naked woman. Women often go to male strip clubs for laughs, not sexual stimulation lol (men in banana hammocks are hilarious looking to be honest). Men frequent strip clubs for the sex stimulation (naked women, lap dances, and flirty conversations). I would honestly just chock it up to your wife having laughs (similar to a comedy show).
> As for the first incident, that was highly inappropriate of her following men into a restroom and photographing it. In fact, I’d say it was downright perverted. If my husband had come home one night and said, “a woman followed me into the mens room and took a pic of my ****” I would be furious and likely asking for security footage to be pulled to press charges. Why? Because that is 1000% sexual harassment.


I can tell you from experience that women get a few drinks into them and become just as sexual as the guys. And no, they aint just looking for laughs lol.

She followed him into that bathroom because she wanted to snap into a slim jim ohhhh yeaaa!


----------



## MiaMia0930

That is why I said, “most women” just as I stated, “most men.” Absolutes are never absolute. I also stated that her going into the restroom was absolutely disgusting. Definitely not ok, at all.
Personally, I can be dog drunk and be surrounded by naked men or women (I’m bi) and feel nothing sexual lol. I can do the same thing sober and feel nothing sexual. Perhaps, in my case, it’s because I worked in nursing…or perhaps that I was sexually abused during my childhood…or maybe I just think about things from a logical or scientific standpoint.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

MiaLancer69 said:


> That is why I said, “most women” just as I stated, “most men.” Absolutes are never absolute. I also stated that her going into the restroom was absolutely disgusting. Definitely not ok, at all.
> Personally, I can be dog drunk and be surrounded by naked men or women (I’m bi) and feel nothing sexual lol. I can do the same thing sober and feel nothing sexual. Perhaps, in my case, it’s because I worked in nursing…or perhaps that I was sexually abused during my childhood…or maybe I just think about things from a logical or scientific standpoint.


I am so sorry to hear about you going through abuse as a child.

I know everyone is different when it comes to how sexual they are and that is not a fault, just who you are.


----------



## ABHale

Sounds like your wife made the rules in your marriage and she is nothing but a hypocrite.

Do as I say not as I do.

Congrats, sounds like you hit the lottery on the POS wife.


----------



## AVR1962

So you feel that all of the ground rules were laid out clearly before you married. Does your wife also feel the same and did she agree to all the terms? Here is where things get muddy.....if you feel you had an agreement I understand your pain. I was raised in the church, raised my kids in the church and I understand what behaviors are accepted and what are not which I am sure your wife is fully aware of also. Religious training or not, your wife was in the wrong by following men into the restroom and taking pictures. If roles were reversed and some man did this to me I would be contacting security. 

I want you to take another look at this situation. I actually know two men who worked as male dancers, have been to a male review where men danced and stripped, been in a couple strip clubs with my ex when we were married and saw the ladies do their stuff. The ladies are far more vocal in their desires for those men. the men have learned to turn it off just like the female stripper do it for the money. This is a source of entertainment and your daughters and wife were partaking in a fun night. I just think she went too far. The good thing is she told you about it so she trusted you to accept her actions. I would seriously just let this go and chalk it up to an adventure she shared with a group of young ladies.


----------



## jonty30

It sounds like the reason she followed men in the bathroom is to put a feather in her cap, to show the girls she was more daring than the other girls.
I don't think she was particularly sexual about that part.
However, because she threw the rule when she went, it's no longer a rule that must be followed by either party.
OP, you're freely to spend your time away from home without being accountable to the wife. She cannot expect you to be accountable when she was not.


1Adam12 said:


> I am a man who would like some input to help me understand the way the sexes may differ in desires and boundary crossing. If I did the same things described below instead of my wife, our relationship would have serious, if not terminal, problems.
> 
> Backstory:
> My wife and I have been together for 39 years, married for 36. We were each other’s first and only. I have no doubt that in the past, present, or future of our commitment we’ve both been exclusive. We raised three daughters together and the youngest is now 23. All three girls are out the house and well adjusted. A Catholic in my youth, my mom moved me on to fundamentalist churches by my early teens. In college my new GF and future wife was “very” Catholic when we met and she got me back on track with the same Catholic faith of my youth.
> She made it clear that we were to be a church going, pious union. When visiting our favorite weekend getaway of New Orleans over our years together I learned early on (from her insistence) that we don’t go near the racy clubs on Bourbon Street. On one of our first outings together we were down Bourbon Street with a group of friends and she was very uncomfortable and guided me in another direction while our friends went into a strip club. We went take in other historic sites instead. I respected her for that decision and we never set foot in a strip club or anything like that afterwards. I have never been to a bar alone or danced with anyone besides her in 40 years. I was a changed person because of that decision she made that night.
> 
> The issues:
> My oldest daughter had a bachelorette party three years ago. As the first daughter to marry, my wife went along with the group of wedding party ladies for a few days. When they returned I laughed at most of the stories of “the list” games they played. But when I heard of the one game where my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men I was concerned and told her that went too far.
> 
> More recently our second daughter’s bachelorette outing was taking place. It was a week before Christmas and I remember well this second daughter of ours was not keen on her mom going originally. My wife was unhappy on not having an invite which later (reluctantly) came when another bridesmaid had to cancel and expenses needed coverage. My wife was then eager to go. Before she departed I reminded her not to do like she did on the first trip a few years earlier.
> 
> The night:
> While I sat alone in a volunteer role amongst friends one evening a week before Christmas I received a simple text from my wife who was on night two of the bachelorette outing. The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “no that comes after the drag show”. I went home and Googled “male strippers”. Not a good idea.
> 
> This recent chapter has me hurt and confused. If you’ve read the backstory, I feel we made a contract those years ago not to do these type of things. If you are familiar with the phrase “trickle truth” you will understand my concern. She finally told me she held money in air and was “forced” to touch stripper, but this was told to me after I had many sleeplessness nights knowing the first story of “nothing happened, and we’re not going to talk about it anymore” was not true. She said her head was turned away, but a video of our daughter with a stripper rubbing his leather covered sack on her up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job.
> 
> Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom? Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires? Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards? Do most women think this is just plain fun, and could a women sit in a show like that and not know that when you hold up money a male dancer is going to come to you and give you attention? I especially would like comments if you are “religious”. Is there something I should do? I am willing to be more spontaneous and fun but it seems she wants something different than me. She has apologized, but I feel a deep divide now that I need help healing from your comments.


It sounds like the reason she followed men in the bathroom is to put a feather in her cap, to show the girls she was more daring than the other girls.
I don't think she was particularly sexual about that part.
However, because she threw the rule when she went, it's no longer a rule that must be followed by either party.
OP, you're freely to spend your time away from home without being accountable to the wife. She cannot expect you to be accountable when she was not.


----------



## jlg07

@1Adam12, how are things going?


----------



## drencrom

ABHale said:


> Sounds like your wife made the rules in your marriage and she is nothing but a hypocrite.
> 
> Do as I say not as I do.
> 
> Congrats, sounds like you hit the lottery on the POS wife.


With the mindset I have now I'd actually look at this as an opportunity. I'd let her go off and do her hypocrite thing. And I'd be going to Vegas every chance I got and wouldn't give a rat's ass what she thought about it.


----------



## drencrom

AVR1962 said:


> So you feel that all of the ground rules were laid out clearly before you married. Does your wife also feel the same and did she agree to all the terms?


His wife is the one that SET the rule. He simply agreed. Now she is reneging.



> The good thing is she told you about it so she trusted you to accept her actions.


That's not exactly what happened. He said she trickle truthed him.


----------



## TexasMom1216

drencrom said:


> His wife is the one that SET the rule. He simply agreed. Now she is reneging.


This. It’s the whole point of the thread. Double standards aren’t fair. She demanded he be faithful based on certain terms. He was fine with those terms. Then she broke the agreement. She is in the wrong here.


----------



## drencrom

TexasMom1216 said:


> This. It’s the whole point of the thread. Double standards aren’t fair. She demanded he be faithful based on certain terms. He was fine with those terms. Then she broke the agreement. She is in the wrong here.


Also, the whole notion that she just was going along with the girls.

According to Adam, the second time she wasn't invited initially because they already had a full party and she was very upset. If it was a matter of "going along with the girls", she wouldn't be upset not being invited the 2nd time especially given her own rule.

She was upset because she wanted to get wild and crazy which is what she prohibited her and Adam to do back in the day.

So now she reneges, I say @1Adam12 needs to just let her do whatever it is she does and not care about it anymore. Then he can go off and do what he wants to do. I'd be in Vegas all the time.
And if she expressed disapproval, she can just take a s**t and fall back in it.


----------



## common sense

1Adam12 said:


> I never said the first incident was at a strip joint. It was a beach bar.


 Both your wife and daughters are confirmed cheaters!! Tell the second daughter's husband of her depraved actions when he wasn't there.


----------



## common sense

1Adam12 said:


> I never saw pictures from first bar outing three years ago but I think they described them as men standing on or at urinals. This was not a strip joint years ago.


You realize that your daughter cheated on her husband and your wife probably did the same. They all stood there and did god only knows what when the camera wasn't on!! Dude wake up!


----------



## David60525

1Adam12 said:


> I am a man who would like some input to help me understand the way the sexes may differ in desires and boundary crossing. If I did the same things described below instead of my wife, our relationship would have serious, if not terminal, problems.
> 
> Backstory:
> My wife and I have been together for 39 years, married for 36. We were each other’s first and only. I have no doubt that in the past, present, or future of our commitment we’ve both been exclusive. We raised three daughters together and the youngest is now 23. All three girls are out the house and well adjusted. A Catholic in my youth, my mom moved me on to fundamentalist churches by my early teens. In college my new GF and future wife was “very” Catholic when we met and she got me back on track with the same Catholic faith of my youth.
> She made it clear that we were to be a church going, pious union. When visiting our favorite weekend getaway of New Orleans over our years together I learned early on (from her insistence) that we don’t go near the racy clubs on Bourbon Street. On one of our first outings together we were down Bourbon Street with a group of friends and she was very uncomfortable and guided me in another direction while our friends went into a strip club. We went take in other historic sites instead. I respected her for that decision and we never set foot in a strip club or anything like that afterwards. I have never been to a bar alone or danced with anyone besides her in 40 years. I was a changed person because of that decision she made that night.
> 
> The issues:
> My oldest daughter had a bachelorette party three years ago. As the first daughter to marry, my wife went along with the group of wedding party ladies for a few days. When they returned I laughed at most of the stories of “the list” games they played. But when I heard of the one game where my wife followed men into the mens restroom and took pictures of men I was concerned and told her that went too far.
> 
> More recently our second daughter’s bachelorette outing was taking place. It was a week before Christmas and I remember well this second daughter of ours was not keen on her mom going originally. My wife was unhappy on not having an invite which later (reluctantly) came when another bridesmaid had to cancel and expenses needed coverage. My wife was then eager to go. Before she departed I reminded her not to do like she did on the first trip a few years earlier.
> 
> The night:
> While I sat alone in a volunteer role amongst friends one evening a week before Christmas I received a simple text from my wife who was on night two of the bachelorette outing. The text was “strip club”. I replied back “we don’t do that do we?” and she replied back “do what?” I texted “like naked weenies” and a she texted, “no that comes after the drag show”. I went home and Googled “male strippers”. Not a good idea.
> 
> This recent chapter has me hurt and confused. If you’ve read the backstory, I feel we made a contract those years ago not to do these type of things. If you are familiar with the phrase “trickle truth” you will understand my concern. She finally told me she held money in air and was “forced” to touch stripper, but this was told to me after I had many sleeplessness nights knowing the first story of “nothing happened, and we’re not going to talk about it anymore” was not true. She said her head was turned away, but a video of our daughter with a stripper rubbing his leather covered sack on her up close was shared in a text that popped up that night on an device connected to my wife’s text account. I had to get serious with them all when they returned to get that deleted due to my concern of my daughter losing her job.
> 
> Do people change this much or am I missing something about my wife being in a group of young ladies and wanting to be seen as a participant in lieu of a married, older mom? Can one really forget to ask your husband before doing something like this or is she covering up some hidden desires? Can you be a good mom for a night and put aside years of Catholic education you provided for your children and not speak up and tell them this is against our moral standards? Do most women think this is just plain fun, and could a women sit in a show like that and not know that when you hold up money a male dancer is going to come to you and give you attention? I especially would like comments if you are “religious”. Is there something I should do? I am willing to be more spontaneous and fun but it seems she wants something different than me. She has apologized, but I feel a deep divide now that I need help healing from your comments.


Hi, we go and get a lap dance or boys night out.
Women go for fun or a Bachelorette party.
Guaranteed wifves, mothers, daughters get drunk enough, they will cheat check the stats.
I tell my daughter and wife, no to any stripper men or club is to go there. If in doubt, champagne,


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