# Does sex drive vary from partner to partner?



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Tried googling it but it mostly brings up how to cope with an LD partner. (which is relevant too).
I just wondered whether sex drive intensity is something that is constant from partner to partner (discounting first few months of a relationship which is fuelled by hormones) or whether it is partner-dependent. or whether it's a combination of both. 
It's mostly a question for women. 
I guess I am trying to work out whether my wife's drive would be different if she was with a partner who she found more attractive.
How do you stop finding your wife attractive? (or *as* attractive). I wish there was a pill to accomplish this. It's painful to go to bed some nights when there's this emptiness. Porn doesn't seem to help as much as it used to. It seems it is _her_ that I need.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> How do you stop finding your wife attractive? (or *as* attractive).


I stopped finding mine attractive after I'd had my fill of not getting my emotional needs met. The drive difference was a problem, but it was only after I really understood that my wife had zero interest in even working on it that my attraction to her completely tanked. I had a need for her to be a partner with me, but she elected not to participate.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> I stopped finding mine attractive after I'd had my fill of not getting my emotional needs met. The drive difference was a problem, but it was only after I really understood that my wife had zero interest in even working on it that my attraction to her completely tanked. I had a need for her to be a partner with me, but she elected not to participate.


I heard about how this can happen. Is this something that happens overnight (or fairly quickly)? Or more gradually? Often, even if I feel hurt by her, I still am very attracted.

Emotional needs: do men have those?  
Seriously though where can I read up on this or what is reasonable to expect? (before it's in the 'needy' territory). I can't really verbalise what it is that is not being met as I don't quite understand it myself...
Something isn't being met otherwise I doubt I'd feel the emptiness or pain so often.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Each person has their own level of sex drive. And that drive will fluctuate depending on age, health, circumstance, etc.

And yes, not getting one's emotional needs met can reduce, or kill, their sex drive... or at least their desire to have sex with the mate who is not meeting their needs.

What is a "normal" level of sex in marriage? I've read about twice a week.

Have you read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs"?

Most people who appear to be LD are not really LD. They harbor resentment/anger toward their partner/spouse and thus do not want sex with them often. Fix the marital problems.... and it could very well fix the sex drive issues.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> I heard about how this can happen. Is this something that happens overnight (or fairly quickly)? Or more gradually? Often, even if I feel hurt by her, I still am very attracted.
> 
> Emotional needs: do men have those?
> Seriously though where can I read up on this or what is reasonable to expect? (before it's in the 'needy' territory). I can't really verbalise what it is that is not being met as I don't quite understand it myself...
> Something isn't being met otherwise I doubt I'd feel the emptiness or pain so often.


It was gradual in the sense that I spent years chasing her, blaming myself, looking for medical reasons, etc. It was sudden in that I pretty much just decided I was done in the space of a very short time at the end of that period. Oddly enough, it cemented for me after we'd had sex a couple of times and I got zero lift from it. The emotions just weren't there anymore.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Most people who appear to be LD are not really LD. They harbor resentment/anger toward their partner/spouse and thus do not want sex with them often. Fix the marital problems.... and it could very well fix the sex drive issues.


That's my fear. Not so much that she harbours anger but the fact that I keep having having to 'unlock' things in her, for us to function as I imagine normal couples would function. Whereas with someone else, these qualities would come out naturally in her, without anyone having to force them out.

She would always say that I am building it up in my head and since I am the one bringing it up, I must be the one who is the unhappy one, because she is happy with me and with how things are. Difficult to argue with that logic and not appearing overly needy. 

Some friends tell me that passion levels and need for emotional connection etc vary significantly from person to person. I tend to lean more towards the idea that those qualities can be augmented (or diminished), depending on who the partner is.

If that is true, I should consider putting her out of the misery as the less selfish option. I don't know.

I must get those books. I keep reading about them on the forums.
thanks


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Tried googling it but it mostly brings up how to cope with an LD partner. (which is relevant too).
> I just wondered whether sex drive intensity is something that is constant from partner to partner (discounting first few months of a relationship which is fuelled by hormones) or whether it is partner-dependent. or whether it's a combination of both.
> It's mostly a question for women.
> I guess I am trying to work out whether my wife's drive would be different if she was with a partner who she found more attractive.
> How do you stop finding your wife attractive? (or *as* attractive). I wish there was a pill to accomplish this. It's painful to go to bed some nights when there's this emptiness. Porn doesn't seem to help as much as it used to. It seems it is _her_ that I need.


Oh, you mean does YOUR sex drive vary from partner to partner.

Funny, that...'been married 17 years now, so I can't speak with any recent experience of other partners. But prior to the marriage....

I tended to be in mostly LTRs - 3 years minimum. In college, unless it was tremendously inconvenient, I stayed overnight at her place or she stayed overnight at mine and activity happened every time. I always looked forward to it. One particular partner had a zest for trying out new things, as I did...we both eagerly looked forward to the next time she or I would say, "Hey I want to try this...". Don't know if that counts as higher drive. 

With another partner, although she expressed strong interest, and often initiated, her participation seemed rather mechanical...even to the point that I could accurately gauge what to do and how long to bring her to "O", which she expected each time. For me, this worked out - thinking back, it was an odd time in my life and having a predictable, satisfying, but not exciting relationship worked for me. I was doing grad work, and as it was a made-up degree program, I had to drive it hard...occasional nights to 4am (said partner would actually come to the lab for her nightly dose of coming in this case), occasional trips out of town to justify the next grant, etc. Between classes, research and oh, yes, I worked a 35 hour a week job, I kept us both fed, clothed, housed, one car maintained...I'm actually having a hard time remembering what she did during the day. She didn't work, but she did love her houseplants, having over 200 of them, named. I feel awful that I can't recall those aspects of her, although I certainly recall lots of the things we did together. I suspect if we'd stayed together after I got my degree and have to move out of state to start the career, I might have seen a more engaged and lively side of her.

One partner, early on, withheld from me one night and I asked why. She told me what she wanted - had nothing to do with sex. I explained, as calmly as I could, that this felt like an ultimatum, and I was feeling manipulated. I invited her to tell me where my understanding was incorrect, and if she could successfully do so, I'd be OK with it. But otherwise, I said, I consider ultimatums or any other way of attempting to control another human to be something I don't want in a relationship and have never had to experience before. She gulped and said, "Oh ****, that was my mom coming out, I'll never do it again." And she didn't. We confronted each other about our **** a few times in those first months and I think we both grew a lot from having done so. My drive was high with her - for everything, every moment together and so on. Ultimately, the only reason we split is that she was more tightly bonded to her family of origin than I was comfortable with - to the point that if I was to be accepted by the family, I HAD to work in the company business. I wasn't interested in being her dad's third son (she had two brothers).

So...I don't think the answer's as simple as high/low...it's a wide spectrum.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> I guess I am trying to work out whether my wife's drive would be different if she was with a partner who she found more attractive.


Odds are she is very attracted to that guy in the romance novel, but unfortunately there is no good picture of him so you'll never be able to compare his looks to yours to know exactly what it is about him your wife finds so attractive. One thing we know for sure is that he is usually "well written" and comes across like this:



> I have for the first time found what I can truly love – I have found you. You are my sympathy – my better self – my good angel; I am bound to you with a strong attachment. I think you good, gifted, lovely: a fervent, a solemn passion is conceived in my heart; it leans to you, draws you to my center and spring of life, wraps my existence about you – and, kindling in pure, powerful flame, fuses you and me in one. - Charlotte Bronte’s Jane Eyre


Hey @inmyprime so like when is the last time you wrote your wife a love letter? You know, using some "well written" words of your own, just for her!

Badsanta


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> That's my fear. Not so much that she harbours anger but the fact that I keep having having to 'unlock' things in her, for us to function as I imagine normal couples would function. Whereas with someone else, these qualities would come out naturally in her, without anyone having to force them out.
> 
> She would always say that I am building it up in my head and since I am the one bringing it up, I must be the one who is the unhappy one, because she is happy with me and with how things are. Difficult to argue with that logic and not appearing overly needy.
> 
> ...


It's easy to overthink things, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. Boil it down like this. Are her needs getting met? She seems to think so. Are you getting your needs met? Clearly not, or you would not be here. 

Now that you've established that your needs aren't being met, communicate those needs clearly to her. Remember that your needs are legitimate. Then, figure out how or if she's willing to work with you. As long as she is willing to make a good faith effort, you have hope.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Haha @badsanta, your posts always cheer me up.
I think it was her birthday, i wrote her an overly flattering, emotionally charged card. And I used to write her a lot of letters in school. I think she finds these embarrassing nowadays or I got worse at writing...(or doesn't believe the content, i don't know which). Because she shows no reaction when she gets them though she makes a point of how important it is for her to get a card with a present whenever I fail to write one (which i think only happened once).
It's a battle I'm not sure I can win.

Thing is, I don't know if she knows that she might be happier in another relationship; she's too pragmatic. As in she will deal with what she has got and doesn't see any point in wasting time thinking about far-fetched scenarios (which may ultimately result in more happiness for her). 
Plus thoughts are generally more abstract in any case: we try to verbalise them (or some aspects of them) but that could be a very poor translation of what's actually being felt. If that makes sense. Sometimes a person may also not be very clear exactly what they feel or why, themselves.
For example I am not quite certain what's causing me to feel this way (the emptiness thing whenever I feel disconnected from her) but I am telling myself a narrative in the hope that it may make sense or is close to reality. Same with her. She may tell herself (and me) that she is perfectly happy, even though it is not a true reflection of her feelings (because her actions, her annoyances with me, lack of passion/lust/interest/compassion blabla point to something different to me). But I can't prove it to her without destroying everything first.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> It's easy to overthink things, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. Boil it down like this. Are her needs getting met? She seems to think so.


She may say that they are met but it doesn't mean they are actually being met, as per my previous post.




Fozzy said:


> Are you getting your needs met? Clearly not, or you would not be here.
> 
> Now that you've established that your needs aren't being met, communicate those needs clearly to her. Remember that your needs are legitimate. Then, figure out how or if she's willing to work with you. As long as she is willing to make a good faith effort, you have hope.


I am not sure what's not being met on my side. It's not as simple as simply forcing herself to have more sex with me or spend more time with me (though that would be a great improvement); that would feel wrong on many levels if it's a charity thing. It would have to involve her seeing me in a different light (or me becoming a whole different person) which I am not sure is possible.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> It would have to involve her seeing me in a different light (or me becoming a whole different person) which I am not sure is possible.


Dude, disco bulbs for your bedroom! Not joking!

My wife was is one of those weird "I don't want to be close to anyone right now" moods, and I told her I would work my magic. I turned on some disco light bulbs I got from Amazon, and cranked up some of her favorite music she like to dance to when she was a crazy teenager. 

OMG!!!

Seriously! It was exactly like we were transformed back into wild and crazy teenagers for that moment. 

Badsanta


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Haha, unfortunately the only 'beneficiary' of the disco party will be our youngest one-year old. He's one crazy night party animal and my wife is not always playing the cool DJ 
Might have to wait till they grow up. That probably includes my 'needs' too.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> She may say that they are met but it doesn't mean they are actually being met, as per my previous post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I get what you're saying. You don't feel a sense of passion coming from her. 

I think people have different base capacities for emotions, passion, sexuality etc. it's possible that you're looking for something she's not able to provide. And passion is not something you can artificially manufacture. It takes work from both parties. You have to do something to inspire passion, but she also has to be an active participant. A passionate relationship is not a passive activity.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> Haha, unfortunately the only 'beneficiary' of the disco party will be our youngest one-year old. He's one crazy night party animal and my wife is not always playing the cool DJ
> Might have to wait till they grow up. That probably includes my 'needs' too.


I don't know how many posts I've seen where the guy is complaining about his wife's drop in sex drive, talks about how he's been telling her how important it is to him, asking what he can do to get her going again, and then much later on, he offhandedly mentions that they have a young child. As though it's completely irrelevant.

Life will NEVER get back to how it was before after you have kids. If there is a preschool age child in the house, the sex life will suffer if there is not DEDICATED effort put to maintain it.

With a one-year-old around, your wife is very likely still exhausted. The little guy is running around like crazy, needs more or less constant supervision as he's mobile and into everything, may still wake in the night, and still thinks Mommy is the centre of the universe. Your wife is focused on all the stuff that goes into being Mommy - feeding, laundry, housecleaning, entertaining a toddler, etc. She probably has very very little time for herself. This is completely exacerbated if she is a working mom also trying to meet those obligations. If she does get a spare moment, her thoughts are probably not on sex. The more she senses your unhappiness about that, the more likely it is that she'll feel sex with you is one more obligation weighing on her, instead of finding the idea fun.

HD people find sex relaxing and a great stress reliever.

LD people don't want sex until they are already relaxed and stress-free. That state of mind doesn't exist around a small child.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

badsanta said:


> Odds are she is very attracted to that guy in the romance novel, but unfortunately there is no good picture of him so you'll never be able to compare his looks to yours to know exactly what it is about him your wife finds so attractive. One thing we know for sure is that he is usually "well written" and comes across like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*I wrote both of my cheating XW's excruciatingly beautiful love letters all while both were busy covertly cheating on me! LD/HD are usually just convenient labels of choice! My prose and penmanship made absolutely no difference in the world!

Let's just say that their hormone levels and oxytocin count are usually at a medically consistent constant, but are far more prevalent for their new, exciting, and usually covert love interest rather than for their legitimate partner!*


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Of course I realise things change after kids. We have three and each time there was almost nothing for 6-12 months after and we survived (thank you porn).
However we always had this mismatch and it's not so much the sex I'm talking about. I don't think I ever felt the same passion from her. I wondered if people experience markedly different sex drives and different passion levels with different partners (after settling down with them). 
Though I guess it's a bit of a pointless question. We have to work with what we got. And I want too much. I want HER to feel in ecstasy ALL the time. With ME.
Because that's how I feel about her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

It varies. I feel more libido sometimes and less others. I feel more libido with some partners and less with others. I feel more with the same partner some times and less other times. Libido is not constant. even when the roles of HD and LD remain fairly constant within a single couple, both person's libido likely varies over time. And with a different partner it would likely be very different than with the same partner.

And yes, when each kid arrives the deck may well be reshuffled. And quite a large chance that one or both's spouse's libido will take a nosedive. So if you had a kid recently and your spouse stopped wanting sex, you are not alone. And no, there is no pill / magic wand / magic bullet that brings it back. But there is something that almost guaranteed it will NOT come back. And that is whining, moping, pouting and making passive-aggressive attempts to punish them for having less libido now than they did before.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> It varies. I feel more libido sometimes and less others. I feel more libido with some partners and less with others. I feel more with the same partner some times and less other times. Libido is not constant. even when the roles of HD and LD remain fairly constant within a single couple, both person's libido likely varies over time. And with a different partner it would likely be very different than with the same partner.
> 
> And yes, when each kid arrives the deck may well be reshuffled. And quite a large chance that one or both's spouse's libido will take a nosedive. So if you had a kid recently and your spouse stopped wanting sex, you are not alone. And no, there is no pill / magic wand / magic bullet that brings it back. *But there is something that almost guaranteed it will NOT come back. And that is whining, moping, pouting and making passive-aggressive attempts to punish them for having less libido now than they did before.*


Are you passive-aggressively implying that this is what is happening in my case? :smile2:
I don't know if I was clear that I was taking into account the children/pregnancy libido declines and refer to the entirety of our relationship/marriage, not just the episodes post-births. Though after 15 months, I expect things to be more or less back to normal (and it is the "normal" I am talking about).
The lack of emotional connection she needed with me was always less than I needed from her, not just recently.
I don't think sex is the main issue to be honest. Because something still feels empty sometimes even after good sex. But I read on other threads that women do prefer to just **** sometimes. It is men who require the connection more often. I can sort of relate to that. Though I prefer a combination of both. 
But you are right, whining doesn't help. I allow myself to do it here because it is just a way to vent. I don't show this side to her. At least I try not to.
Until I understand the ins and outs of it better.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Inmyprime, read "Mating in Captivity" by Esther Perel. It gives some interesting insights into what you're looking for.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Sex drive has a lot of components, one of the biggest one being the level of attraction to your partner. So undoubtedly, there are different levels of attraction and sex drive from partner to partner. You hear all the time that when there is an affair that the WS has a much higher sex drive with the AP than they do with the BS. The book that @Fozzy mentioned is an excellent read and covers the psychology of attraction and how to keep it alive and strong. MMSLP is another good book to read. 

I am not familiar with your story, but there are a lot of things you can do to keep an active sex life up, even post children (I know because I did). Start by keeping in good physical shape so you are physically attractive, then date your wife. Tell her to get all dolled up, hire a babysitter, and take her out on date(s) so you two can reconnect as lovers instead of just being parents. Make sure you are being a good partner and father, so she feels like you two are a team that is working together for a common goal. Also, don't be shy about your sexuality. Let her know what you want and what your expectations are. There's nothing more beta than when a woman accuses you of just to get in her pants and you deny it, instead of owning it and using it as a gateway for some flirting.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> Though after 15 months, I expect things to be more or less back to normal (and it is the "normal" I am talking about).


If by "normal" you mean "back the way it was before the kid arrived", then that is your problem. It won't go back to that until the last kid leaves the house (and doesn't come back), and by then you will both be physically very different than you were before the first kid arrived so it will never actually be the same. But if you manage to maintain your good relationship all those years, it might be better!

If by "normal" you mean "normal for most married couples who don't have small kids in the house", then, again, you have a problem. That is not your correct comparison group. If you mean "normal for couples that DO have small kids in the house" then congratulations - you are already there. Because it is "normal" (meaning frequent but not universal) for couples with small kids in the house to not have much if any sex.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> I stopped finding mine attractive after I'd had my fill of not getting my emotional needs met. The drive difference was a problem, but it was only after I really understood that my wife had zero interest in even working on it that my attraction to her completely tanked.


Did your wife notice?

If so, what was her reaction?


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Well, mine's in park and I'm waiting for a AAA tow.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> Did your wife notice?
> 
> If so, what was her reaction?


If she's noticed she hasn't let on. From her perspective everything is hunk-dory.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

I haven't really noticed a different sex drive with my various relationship partners but I'm thinking if those two asian high school chicks from my favorite porn video showed up at my front door I might get a wee bit harder than usual.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> If by "normal" you mean "back the way it was before the kid arrived", then that is your problem. It won't go back to that until the last kid leaves the house (and doesn't come back), and by then you will both be physically very different than you were before the first kid arrived so it will never actually be the same. But if you manage to maintain your good relationship all those years, it might be better!
> 
> If by "normal" you mean "normal for most married couples who don't have small kids in the house", then, again, you have a problem. That is not your correct comparison group. If you mean "normal for couples that DO have small kids in the house" then congratulations - you are already there. Because it is "normal" (meaning frequent but not universal) for couples with small kids in the house to not have much if any sex.


Neither.
By "normal", I mean that she'd want to **** me once in a while again, when time/energy allows, given the kids and tasks are not overwhelming her. (Taking into account that tiredness can impact it).

But I get what you are driving at. Life cannot be the same after kids in many respects and we both expected it to be this way. And that's not really the issue or a surprise as such.

Actually it seems her sex drive may be a little higher now than before kids (every 2-3 days, usually, whereas before it was maybe weekly or every two weeks). I don't know whether that's because we had The Talk (when i told her it is physically difficult for me not to have sex with her for long periods of time) or she figured out on her own or read something or because she actually wants to do it. Today she mentioned that sex is not something that is constantly on her mind (I don't blame her nor would I expect it to be) but she does have to make herself think about it so that she can enjoy it later that day. Whereas in the past, longer time would go by without her thinking about it.

Maybe it's my age (feel older, at 36) but it seems that emotional bonding plays a larger part, the older I get. Or maybe it's because I try to rationalise more what matters in life (feeling connected to people you love or care about). Don't know exactly what's going on. Midlife crisis perhaps  Need to buy myself that sex "drive" and _drive_ it, as someone said.

Yes, dating is a great idea. We do that occasionally (not enough). But for me just having an hour to chat with each other once a day or every other day, would make a huge difference. Sometimes you can spend all your time together and around each other but not really _be_ together and that's frustrating.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> Sex drive has a lot of components, one of the biggest one being the level of attraction to your partner. So undoubtedly, there are different levels of attraction and sex drive from partner to partner. You hear all the time that when there is an affair that the WS has a much higher sex drive with the AP than they do with the BS.


As I wrote, I meant the intensity of sex drive to be judged after the first (hormonal) 6 month period. when the partners are settled down and I presume most affairs will fall within the first 6 months and so one can be fooled into thinking that the sex drive is higher when it is likely to revert back to some sort of equilibrium eventually.

But yes, i get that there are many components.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I don't know how many posts I've seen where the guy is complaining about his wife's drop in sex drive, talks about how he's been telling her how important it is to him, asking what he can do to get her going again, and then much later on, he offhandedly mentions that they have a young child. As though it's completely irrelevant.


For some of us it is largely irrelevant.

Although this happens to lots of people, it also doesn't happen to lots of others.

I read post like yours and others which talk about sex diminishing or stopping with young children, yet I have never experienced this.



Hopeful Cynic said:


> Life will NEVER get back to how it was before after you have kids. If there is a preschool age child in the house, the sex life will suffer if there is not DEDICATED effort put to maintain it.


Of course life will never be the same, yet that's true with each passing year kids or otherwise.

I think it all depends upon who the people are, within that sex life.

For my wife and I, having kids hasn't significantly curtailed our opportunity or desire to share sex together. Nor did we have to put in any special effort to share sex together, when our children were Pre School aged and younger.

When the kids were babies, through being toddlers we usually had sex whenever they were in their bassinet/cot/bed or were asleep.

Once they were Pre School aged we then started to have sex while they were awake, where we would shut the door anytime morning/noon/afternoon and or evening. Or if they were asleep we would then have sex anywhere else in the house. Which remained thus until they became teen aged.

Now that they're both teens in High School, we limit sex anywhere since they now sometimes come out at night, or are coming home and staying up late. So we still have sex anytime just in our bedroom and or ensuite, or go for a drive, or have sex anywhere in the house while they're not home.

So our kids and our life have never held us back from enjoying each other a lot.

If people want to share sex together they will do exactly that. If one or more of them don't want to share sex together, then they won't.



Hopeful Cynic said:


> With a one-year-old around, your wife is very likely still exhausted. The little guy is running around like crazy, needs more or less constant supervision as he's mobile and into everything, may still wake in the night, and still thinks Mommy is the centre of the universe.


My wife relates that for the most part, it was quite the holiday for her when she was at home with the kids. She says she found reading books, hanging out with friends, visiting places and all the rest while looking after the kids was all pretty easy. That also included me sometimes going away for a few days, through a few weeks and even a few months at a time for work.

In her case she took 12 months maternity leave and went back to work part time hours for the second year with our first child. While for our second she went back to work full time after taking 10 months maternity leave. Whereupon I took close to 3 years off, to look after both of them while she worked full time.



Hopeful Cynic said:


> Your wife is focused on all the stuff that goes into being Mommy - feeding, laundry, housecleaning, entertaining a toddler, etc. She probably has very very little time for herself.


In our experience that still leaves a healthy ammount of free time in between. It's not like we use wash tubs and hand cranked mangles to wash our laundry anymore.



Hopeful Cynic said:


> This is completely exacerbated if she is a working mom also trying to meet those obligations.


Absolutely if in a parental relationship, where one does all of the work at home as well as working full-time outside of the home.

In our experience, nether of us have ever had to commute very far for work, with living 5 through 15 minutes drive away from work being the norm in most instances. Plus we have always shared all home duties, so we take turns cooking, doing dishes, laundry, driving the kids to activities etc. Then on the occasions when one of us is away for work, we then do it all for whoever is away at the time.



Hopeful Cynic said:


> If she does get a spare moment, her thoughts are probably not on sex.


If she isn't very interested in sex or is not very interested in having sex with her sexual partner, I concur her thoughts probably won't be on sex.



Hopeful Cynic said:


> The more she senses your unhappiness about that, the more likely it is that she'll feel sex with you is one more obligation weighing on her, instead of finding the idea fun.


Yep, especially if she is not enamoured by the idea of having sex. 



Hopeful Cynic said:


> HD people find sex relaxing and a great stress reliever.


Which is one of the reasons why, my wife and I have always enjoyed sharing a very rich sex life.



Hopeful Cynic said:


> LD people don't want sex until they are already relaxed and stress-free. That state of mind doesn't exist around a small child.


For many who are like that, I doubt being relaxed and stress free would make them want more sex even then.

That said not all of us feel raising children, is a particularly stressful experience.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> Of course I realise things change after kids. We have three and each time there was almost nothing for 6-12 months after and we survived (thank you porn).


Ouch!

Outside of not being able to go out just as a couple, on a whim when the children were younger. Having kids has not had a significant impact upon our sex life.

My wife (who was breastfeeding) and I were having sex until just before the (natural) birth of both of our children. While in the first instance we didn't last the recommended 6 weeks of waiting, while in the second instance we did it at 6 weeks since she had three stitches.

We simply couldn't keep off of each other.



inmyprime said:


> However we always had this mismatch and it's not so much the sex I'm talking about. I don't think I ever felt the same passion from her.


If that's the case this was inevitable.



inmyprime said:


> I wondered if people experience markedly different sex drives and different passion levels with different partners (after settling down with them).


My three longest sexual relationships had/have lasted 3 years, circa 1 year and close to 21 years thus far. Throughout all of those relationships the quality and frequency of sex did not change significantly, even with having children in the first and last of those relationships.



inmyprime said:


> Though I guess it's a bit of a pointless question. We have to work with what we got. And I want too much. I want HER to feel in ecstasy ALL the time. With ME.
> Because that's how I feel about her.


Since she has never reciprocated your desire, should you hope that she changes?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> However we always had this mismatch and it's not so much the sex I'm talking about. I don't think I ever felt the same passion from her. _*I wondered if people experience markedly different sex drives and different passion levels with different partners* _(after settling down with them).
> Though I guess it's a bit of a pointless question. We have to work with what we got. And I want too much. I want HER to feel in ecstasy ALL the time. With ME.
> Because that's how I feel about her.


I think the answer is a resounding 'yes', though not in all cases, of course.

Most of us here are in our 40's and beyond, I think. Most of us here are, or have been, married. And most of us here have dating and LTR experience prior to marriage.

One thing that I think most of us can agree upon is that our choice in marital partner tends to be somebody who _meets_ all, or most, of our needs - but not necessarily_ exceeds_ in all (or even any) of them. Some may call this settling, and you wouldn't necessarily be wrong, however the odds of finding a partner who exceeds in all of one's needs is exceedingly slim. If there are one or two areas in which one's needs are not met by them (which is not uncommon), one decides whether those needs are important enough or not.

Long story short, not many couples exceed each other's needs in all areas. And what you look for in a marital partner is not the same as what you look for in other relationships, especially when you're younger.

A good example of this is that my wife is LD/ND/responsive desire, and has been as long as she remembers. She's generally always chosen her partners based on her needs - which aren't sexual in nature, nor do physical attributes play much of a part in her choices. Her ex before me was ugly, as was at least one other guy she dated briefly who I happened to know. Helluva nice guy, though. My wife is, truly, a beautiful woman, so to see her with either of those guys would make most people go "huh?". Honestly.

However, there was this guy she knew when she was in her late teens who was, quote/unquote, "hot". (for those of you who know, we knew each other back then, same social circles). He was a player, through and through, and a male dancer on weekends (yup! lol). A total stereotype. Tall, well built, crazy abs, long hair, extremely charismatic. Literally looked like he stepped off the cover of a romance novel. My wife was gaga over him, and to this day, she can't explain why. She knew he was a ****, that there was no relationship to be had with him, but she wanted him, bad, and pretty much chased him for the better part of a year (with no luck). Never chased any other guy, including me, like this.

So this dude, for the one and only time in her life, checked 'those' boxes for her. None of the other ones, though. She's still genuinely mystified by it and has no real explanation.

It is what it is, but I do often wonder that if I looked like this guy, yet had all the other qualities she likes about me (and thus chose me as a marital partner for), would our married life be different? The likelihood is that it wasn't necessarily this guys looks that attracted her, but the overall bad-boy image and relative unattainability of him. There are people out there we just want to bang, and there are people that we want to marry. It's generally rare that that person is one and the same - that's just the way it is. It certainly doesn't mean that we can't, or don't, have a high sexual attraction to our mates, it's just that once we find somebody we want to spend the rest of our lives with, pure animal lust is usually not the #1 reason we want to do so.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> However we always had this mismatch and it's not so much the sex I'm talking about. I don't think I ever felt the same passion from her. _I wondered if people experience markedly different sex drives and different passion levels with different partners _(after settling down with them).
> Though I guess it's a bit of a pointless question. We have to work with what we got. And I want too much. I want HER to feel in ecstasy ALL the time. With ME.
> Because that's how I feel about her.


Now, to actually answer the question from my experience!

My passion and over all attraction for my ex wife never really waned. This, despite how she treated me. I still got excited (sexually, I mean) by her. I spent almost 14 years with her.

My sexual attraction for my current wife, much like Fozzy, has definitely diminished over time, and I feel as though it will eventually reach the point of 'zero'. We have not been together even close to 14 years.

The difference is that, while my ex wife and I were not actually sexually compatible, she still had a drive and a need for sex, or sexual interaction. She would initiate, she would take care of me solo and vice versa. In the bedroom, on the couch, in the shower, in the car. It was rarely good sex, for a variety of reasons, but it was varied, spontaneous, and oddly fulfilling.

My current wife, by contrast, is not spontaneous, adventurous (bedroom only), does not initiate, and otherwise is not 'sexy'. She's sexy _looking_, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I see her naked almost every day, and it normally doesn't get me excited. Yet when we do have sex, it's hands down the best sex I've ever had in my life.

But the simple reality of it is that she never, never presents herself as a sexual being, ever, therefore it's impossible to see her that way. When we do have sex, I know it's coming, she knows it's coming, and we do it. Outside of that, there's no innuendo, sexy talk, touching me, touching her, flirting - nothing. There's really not any initiation on either of our parts (never was for her, anyway). We both just know it's "time".

So I was more sexually excited and turned on by a woman who treated me like ****, and who I wasn't sexually/physically compatible with, versus a woman who, pardon my French, knows how to ****, and with whom I actually fit and work for and can have multiple orgasms (her, not me!)

It's a shame. My wife is nearly perfect in all other ways. Give her the sex drive and general sexual attitude and openness of my ex wife, and I'd have no complaints.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> Of course I realise things change after kids. We have three and each time there was almost nothing for 6-12 months after and we survived (thank you porn).
> However we always had this mismatch and it's not so much the sex I'm talking about. I don't think I ever felt the same passion from her. I wondered if people experience markedly different sex drives and different passion levels with different partners (after settling down with them).
> Though I guess it's a bit of a pointless question. We have to work with what we got. And I want too much. I want HER to feel in ecstasy ALL the time. With ME.
> Because that's how I feel about her.
> ...


With our first kid (mine and my W, not mine and yours  ) we went about 3 months before having sex. Second kid close to 8 months. Third kid just over a year.

There are several challenges IMO. The first challenge (speaking as a dude) is understanding that you can't just expect things to magically go back to normal after childbirth. However, there has to be a point where enough is enough. That point my be different for each person. You want to be understanding and supportive, but that doesn't mean your needs get tossed to the side indefinitely.

Another challenge, and this is where I struggle with my W, the moment you introduce another person into your relationship (i.e. a kid), the focus is no longer just on the relationship. You have to work harder to make your relationship a priority (this includes all aspects, both sexual and non sexual needs). I think some people just expect things to go back to normal, or they take the approach that things will eventually get better on their own over time. Next thing you know, years have gone by in the relationship and you have drifted apart by ignoring each others needs. This is the exact reason why you hear frequently the concept that you must continue to date your SO. If you don't make the extra effort to maintain the relationship, maintain the needs of each person, you will probably find yourself eventually with a roommate and not a spouse.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Personal said:


> Since she has never reciprocated your desire, should you hope that she changes?


It's not quite like that: she definitely does reciprocate. It's more about the intensity of the reciprocation or the frequency (deriving from her own rhythm, rather than adjusting to my rhythm).
I think the book Mating in Captivity might help (thanks for suggestion to the poster). I was a bit taken aback by the title but read the reviews and it seems like it addresses this.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> I think the answer is a resounding 'yes', though not in all cases, of course.
> 
> Most of us here are in our 40's and beyond, I think. Most of us here are, or have been, married. And most of us here have dating and LTR experience prior to marriage.
> 
> ...


This is interesting and exactly the kind of things I often ponder about. I guess you can't expect looking like that 'dude with long hair' nor can you expect her to feel same sexual attraction towards you which basically comes to the realisation that we shouldn't be too greedy & want too much and try to make the best of what we have (cheesy, I know).
But the interesting thing is that this 'drive' or 'sexual curiosity gene' probably exists in every woman (I believe so at least) and getting it ignited or augmented (in my wife) is what I am interested in.
Maybe some people are true LD/ND, I don't know. I think my wife _can_ be HD. On holidays (before kids) we used to do it every day or sometimes a whole night and most of the next day...And I don't think she was pretending or forcing herself.
It would be interesting if there was a way to work out what the percentages are for influence on the sex drive from all these various components. Then it would be easier to work out which areas should have more focus.
Since it is just too individual and different for every situation, it will remain completely theoretical.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> Now, to actually answer the question from my experience!
> 
> My passion and over all attraction for my ex wife never really waned. This, despite how she treated me. I still got excited (sexually, I mean) by her. I spent almost 14 years with her.
> 
> My sexual attraction for my current wife, much like Fozzy, has definitely diminished over time, and I feel as though it will eventually reach the point of 'zero'. We have not been together even close to 14 years.


Why do you think it has? Is it the age or lack of her need for adventure?



alexm said:


> The difference is that, while my ex wife and I were not actually sexually compatible, she still had a drive and a need for sex, or sexual interaction. She would initiate, she would take care of me solo and vice versa. In the bedroom, on the couch, in the shower, in the car. It was rarely good sex, for a variety of reasons, but it was varied, spontaneous, and oddly fulfilling.


How could it have been bad? Sounds pretty good to me...



alexm said:


> My current wife, by contrast, is not spontaneous, adventurous (bedroom only), does not initiate, and otherwise is not 'sexy'. She's sexy _looking_, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I see her naked almost every day, and it normally doesn't get me excited. Yet when we do have sex, it's hands down the best sex I've ever had in my life.
> 
> But the simple reality of it is that she never, never presents herself as a sexual being, ever, therefore it's impossible to see her that way. When we do have sex, I know it's coming, she knows it's coming, and we do it. Outside of that, there's no innuendo, sexy talk, touching me, touching her, flirting - nothing. There's really not any initiation on either of our parts (never was for her, anyway). We both just know it's "time".


Ok I see. I guess it's something that needs to be put effort into/nourished. Have you spoken about it with her? What turns her on etc. It can be an exciting & adventurous quest in itself finding these things out..And women know how to make these things deliberately difficult to find 
The only thing that might hold me back would be if I knew that my wife was not that attracted to me in the first place...Then it would be a non-starter or would make it into a frustrating activity.. It seems my wife has a 'flexible' personality. By that I mean that I noticed that if I try or work on something hard enough...it does come out in her eventually (and it's not just sexual). I think all these things are there, buried somewhere. Just need to find the right shovel or the correct place to dig. But then again, somebody else in my place, may not even have to dig anywhere, all these things might fall right into his lap (i.e. we bring out the best/worst in people etc).
But anyway, one must not have too many self-doubts. And as you say, it's about all the qualities in their totality rather than in isolation.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

PS: If she was pursuing that guy with long hair then there must be something there...I sometimes read or hear women talk about marriage versus sex material...I don't know how much truth there is in it but does it really *need* to have that separation?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> it does come out in her eventually (and it's not just sexual). I think all these things are there, buried somewhere. Just need to find the right shovel or the correct place to dig.


Just because she is more sexual at times, does not imply that the possibility exists for her to be that sexual more often. You think the things are there, but buried. They may not be there at all. You could spend your whole life digging and end up with just a bunch of empty holes and piles of dirt in your yard.

On another board we used to have a saying: "just because your spouse has a box of 64 crayons does not mean they have a yellow one. If you need a yellow crayon to be happy, and your spouse has red and blue and green and purple but no yellow, you can drive both of you crazy insisting that your spouse produce their yellow crayon." Your wife may not have a yellow crayon. Is it acceptable to you if that is the answer? Is it safe for her to tell you that? Will you promise not to leave her if she admits she doesn't have one? Which do you want more, her yellow crayon or the truth?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> Just because she is more sexual at times, does not imply that the possibility exists for her to be that sexual more often. You think the things are there, but buried. They may not be there at all. You could spend your whole life digging and end up with just a bunch of empty holes and piles of dirt in your yard.
> 
> On another board we used to have a saying: "just because your spouse has a box of 64 crayons does not mean they have a yellow one. If you need a yellow crayon to be happy, and your spouse has red and blue and green and purple but no yellow, you can drive both of you crazy insisting that your spouse produce their yellow crayon." Your wife may not have a yellow crayon. Is it acceptable to you if that is the answer? Is it safe for her to tell you that? Will you promise not to leave her if she admits she doesn't have one? Which do you want more, her yellow crayon or the truth?


But sometimes she *does* produce a "yellow" crayon and it's the kind of yellowness that I have never seen before and it takes me completely by surprise...

It is of course possible that she mixed red and green to make a very special kind of yellow just for my benefit...

Also don't forget that in many instances, _*you*_ may be the one holding the box with all the colours in it and if you haven't put the yellow in the box, she may never find it...

It's complicated, all this drawing. Will ask my one year old


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> Today she mentioned that sex is not something that is constantly on her mind (I don't blame her nor would I expect it to be) but she does have to make herself think about it so that she can enjoy it later that day. Whereas in the past, longer time would go by without her thinking about it.


If she's that self aware, then you should be in good shape.

But she'll need motivation to make herself think about it so that she can "enjoy it latter in the day".

It's up to you to provide that motivation by letting her know what you want. Otherwise, why would she go to the trouble of having to "make herself" do anything?

The unproductive approach is to just say nothing and expect her to have sex constantly on her mind.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> It seems my wife has a 'flexible' personality. By that I mean that I noticed that if I try or work on something hard enough...it does come out in her eventually (and it's not just sexual). I think all these things are there, buried somewhere. Just need to find the right shovel or the correct place to dig.


I disagree that it's up to the husband to do all the digging himself. You may be digging in the wrong place or for something that isn't there.

I think the wife needs to be motivated to do some of the digging as well.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> Maybe some people are true LD/ND, I don't know. I think my wife _can_ be HD. On holidays (before kids) we used to do it every day or sometimes a whole night and most of the next day...And I don't think she was pretending or forcing herself.
> It would be interesting if there was a way to work out what the percentages are for influence on the sex drive from all these various components. Then it would be easier to work out which areas should have more focus.
> Since it is just too individual and different for every situation, it will remain completely theoretical.


I strongly believe that everybody gets sexually excited by, and for, vastly different reasons. We tend to place people in these No-D/Low-D/Normal-D/High-D categories because it's easy.

Your wife, like mine, is FAR more open to sex while, say, on vacation. They both realize the inherent value and enjoyability of sex - just not when there's far more pressing things to take care of. It's not about busy vs. not being busy, per se, it's more about other things simply not being there to do, thus moving something like sex up the hierarchical ladder.

Whereas with people who are not ND or LD, sex is something we make time for in our daily lives, usually no matter how hectic or stressful or busy.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> Why do you think it has? Is it the age or lack of her need for adventure?
> 
> *Neither. It's just her. She's been adventurous with me (and still is, though there's not much left to try, TBH), and she knows what she likes. We all kind of get to that point eventually!*
> 
> ...


Yeah, self doubt is a killer. What I had to wrap my brain around is that _it's not me_. My wife would not be any more sexually attracted to me if I was X, Y or Z. I'm as attractive to her as anybody could be, I guess.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

alexm said:


> I strongly believe that everybody gets sexually excited by, and for, vastly different reasons. We tend to place people in these No-D/Low-D/*Normal-D*/High-D categories because it's easy.
> 
> Your wife, like mine, is FAR more open to sex while, say, on vacation. They both realize the inherent value and enjoyability of sex - just not when there's far more pressing things to take care of. It's not about busy vs. not being busy, per se, it's more about other things simply not being there to do, thus moving something like sex up the hierarchical ladder.
> 
> Whereas with *people who are not ND or LD,* sex is something we make time for in our daily lives, usually no matter how hectic or stressful or busy.


I will go back to David Schnarch. 

Two people in just about every aspect of a marriage are HD and LD in many things; bowling, sexual frequency, desire for chocolate ice cream, etc. There is no *normal*. There is no *wrong amount*. There is very seldom a "broken." 

*HD and LD are only relevant in relationship to the married couple*. A man in his first marriage may be LD with regards to sexual frequency and in his second marriage he may be far more HD than his second wife. It doesn't mean that the man's desired sexual frequency has changed, it just means it has changed in regards to his wife. 

The same can be true before and after children. Before child birth a man might be HD. Then afterwards the Madonna/***** thing kicks in and he goes all LD with the new Madonna. Alternately, the wife before children might have been all HD and afterwards she views herself more of a mother than a sexual companion to her husband and she may go all LD. 

I would say that the people you suggest that are neither LD nor HD are in reality one or the other in regards to that aspect of their marriage, it is that they have just worked out a compromise that works for them and their spouse and so it is no longer a point of constant frustration and friction.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alex,
I have a different viewpoint as I doubt that either M2 or I would have the same interaction profile with a different partner. 

I would simplify that (profile) as the amount of interaction each of us proactively desires (or is happily agreeable to in a responsive way) for:
- Companionship
- Non sexual touch
- Sex

There is zero chance I'm going clothes shopping with a partner unless they are not only an excellent companion but an excellent companion in high doses. 

I could be with someone who finds my interest in science/etc. - boring - who might be more physically attracted to me but less 'into' certain key types of conversations and thus less interested in spending time together. 

I don't equate compatibility with me or someone else being good/bad - just a level of 'fit'. 

I don't think M2 would be radically different with another partner - but I do not believe I represent a sexually ideal partner for her. 







alexm said:


> Yeah, self doubt is a killer. What I had to wrap my brain around is that _it's not me_. My wife would not be any more sexually attracted to me if I was X, Y or Z. I'm as attractive to her as anybody could be, I guess.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Yes it does. It can vary greatly. I had a girlfriend who was fine with sex once a week and another who wanted it before we went to work, when we got home and then woke me up for more sex in the middle of the night. Between all of that she had sex with other guys and then needed more and got into gang bangs when that was not enough. I did not love her, and she was insatiable, so I really did not care what she did on her own time.

I have had girlfriends in-between those extremes. My wife started off wanting sex a few times a day and even sharing other women with me for more sex, but after menopause her sex drive dropped to only twice a week where it is now in our mid sixties.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Young at Heart said:


> I will go back to David Schnarch.
> 
> Two people in just about every aspect of a marriage are HD and LD in many things; bowling, sexual frequency, desire for chocolate ice cream, etc. There is no *normal*. There is no *wrong amount*. There is very seldom a "broken."
> 
> ...


I agree for the most part.

However, if my wife is to be believed (and I have absolutely no reason not to) she has never had an actual sex drive.

Yes, we had plenty of it for the first year or so, and it's since devolved into what it is now. It would be easy to say "the relationship was new, therefore it was exciting" - as this is what generally DOES happen.

In some cases, mine included, the drive was never actually there for her. The drive to be a good partner, yes. The drive for actual sex, no.

My wife says she doesn't know what it's like to be horny, prior to actually engaging in sex. She's never been turned on by something, then had the need to have sex or masturbate. She's been attracted to people, in the way that she wants to be around them, or that they'd be a suitable partner for her, but not in a sexual way. Even that guy I mentioned, I don't believe that was a sexual attraction, the way you and I would view it, so much as it was a mountain to climb, a challenge of sorts.

It's funny/sad, but I was not able to explain to her what "horniness" was, and what it does to somebody. One day, it occurred to me that when she and I have sex, she is turned on (responsive desire and all that). So - 'horny'. But only _during_ the act, not before. So right in the middle of it one day, I stopped. She asked me what the hell I was doing. I asked her how she felt right now, at that moment. She said something along the lines of 'well, I don't want you to stop, I'm close!'. I said "that's horny". We talked a little bit about it afterwards, and she understood the feeling. I had to explain to her that this is how people often feel before sex, or simply throughout the day, not just during sex. You're somewhat on edge, your thoughts are consumed by it, it can come and go, but generally speaking, you need that release. So even though she'd always had those feelings during sex, she didn't quite understand that most people have them outside of it, too, because she hadn't.

So people like her enjoy sex (sometimes very much so, like she does), yet do not have the ability to think about it, or have anything that instigates these feelings - save for actually having sex. This is, technically, ND, if you were to put a label on it. However, I would likely say she is HD once we get into it, no joke. It's just the getting there that's the issue. The catalyst to get her there is literally to do it. Whereas the catalyst for most of us could be as simple as a passing thought.

In any case, I believe the labels to be generally true. Yes, my wife and I will have more sex if we're on vacation for 2 weeks. But that's not because she suddenly has a desire for sex. For her, and most others like her, the desire is just not there. There's more sex during these times, because the other 25 things that normally take precedence are not there. She doesn't suddenly gain the ability to get horny. It still all works the same way. But without all of the other distractions around, I think she's a little more cognizant of the fun she could have by having sex. Because she _does_ enjoy sex.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

MEM2020 said:


> Alex,
> I have a different viewpoint as I doubt that either M2 or I would have the same interaction profile with a different partner.
> 
> I would simplify that (profile) as the amount of interaction each of us proactively desires (or is happily agreeable to in a responsive way) for:
> ...


Yeah, I see what you're saying, and I tend to agree somewhat.

I did kind of touch on that in an earlier post. The one in which I mentioned my wife did once have a genuine interest in a guy who she knew would not be a suitable partner.

On the surface, that would seem like it was a purely sexual interest. And although that may very well have been the only goal for her at that time - to have sex with this guy - I don't actually believe it was because she had a burning desire to have sex with him, if that makes sense. I don't believe he, for lack of a better term, made her horny. There were likely a number of mitigating factors in that scenario, which I won't touch on but I truly don't believe that, in her case, involved actual _sexual_ desire.

In terms of being a sexually ideal partner, I believe that I _am_ that for her. She's said as much, and she's not one to make comments like this willy-nilly. In fact, compliments (or statements) of this sort are in short supply to begin with, so when she says something along those lines, they're not made in passing, or BS. So when she tells me I'm hands-down the best **** she's ever had, I take it.

The part that I agree with you about, is that, yes, if I were 6'2" and had a swimmer's build, she may very well enjoy sex with me that much more. But she doesn't think that way. Whether we want to admit it or not, most of us do. Our partners can certainly turn us on, but... they're likely not exactly our ideal. I wish my wife had smaller breasts, and that her vagina was a little bit tighter. Does it really impact my sexual attraction to her? No. But all the same. The sex would be that much better, the same as if I were X, Y or Z. But as it is, our physical sexual compatibility is through the roof, on both sides. It's everything else that doesn't jive.

Like I said, I had the exact opposite problem with my ex wife. NO physical compatibility, but the drive and interest and desire were perfect matches. I genuinely can't say one is better than the other, TBH.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alex,
What you posted is pretty consistent with my views. 

I seriously doubt that, in terms of raw physicality, I am M2's best experience. But I have never asked her - who was - and where I rank. 

We seem compatible enough, and I'm happy with that. Thing is, I'm no different in the kitchen, on a date or in the bedroom. We are doing stuff together - and so it's important that my contribution to M2's experience is - considerate and positive - other than that - life happens as it happens. 





alexm said:


> Yeah, I see what you're saying, and I tend to agree somewhat.
> 
> I did kind of touch on that in an earlier post. The one in which I mentioned my wife did once have a genuine interest in a guy who she knew would not be a suitable partner.
> 
> ...


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

alexm said:


> ....if my wife is to be believed.....he has never had an actual sex drive.
> 
> .......The drive to be a good partner, yes. The drive for actual sex, no.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing! I agree for the most part. 

I think I understand the degree that some spouses just don't put a priority on sex and even when they are aroused (or on the verge of arousal) can just put the brakes on everything. Once. while hugging, kissing, and touching in bed, I had my wife stop me, look me in the eyes and say "don't touch me down there. If you touch me like that I will want to have sex with you. I don't want to have sex right now." 

It was sort of like Sex is not on my priorities right now, but if you continue I will "want" to have sex with you. That might be an understanding that if things continue much more, she will become "horny" and need to go for the O. At least she knows her body and that if aroused she very much enjoys sex.

I do like the way you explained to your wife what horny felt like. Good Job!

Interesting observation on vacation sex.

As to no sex drive, I think it is there, just suppressed or very low. I think that my wife has a sex drive, but that it is just very low (compared to mine) and a low priority to her. Usually, if we go for say a week and a half to two weeks between sex due to illness, stress, work or other reasons, my wife will literally "jump my bones." Of course I will be totally desperate as well. Still, I think that means she has a strong sex drive, just much lower than mine. I would wager that with a man who had a much lower sex drive than mine, she might be viewed as the HD partner. Again, that is partly why I feel that HD/LD labels are strictly relative to the couple, and mean nothing in absolute terms.

I also agree with your concept of her having a high drive to be a "good partner" more so than a high drive to be a sexual partner. I think that is partially why the sex therapist that saved our marriage helped us negotiate to twice a week, which we both seem to be able to enjoy.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Vinnydee said:


> My wife started off wanting sex a few times a day and even sharing other women with me for more sex, but after menopause her sex drive dropped to only twice a week where it is now in our mid sixties.


Well you certainly got your money's worth out of her.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

alexm said:


> My sexual attraction for my current wife, much like Fozzy, has definitely diminished over time, and I feel as though it will eventually reach the point of 'zero'. We have not been together even close to 14 years.


Alex, have you told her this? If so, what was her reaction? If not, do you think it would matter to her?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Young at Heart said:


> Thanks for sharing! I agree for the most part.
> 
> I think I understand the degree that some spouses just don't put a priority on sex and even when they are aroused (or on the verge of arousal) can just put the brakes on everything. Once. while hugging, kissing, and touching in bed, I had my wife stop me, look me in the eyes and say "don't touch me down there. If you touch me like that I will want to have sex with you. I don't want to have sex right now."
> 
> ...


Although there are many similarities between your wife and mine, I'm not sure they're the same in the long run.

From what you've said, I'd venture to say that your wife suppresses her drive more than anything. That doesn't mean she's actually super HD and just hides it. I think she may have somewhat arbitrarily decided on what's 'too much' sex for her. ie. Whatever she's comfortable with. Or more likely, she decides well in advance whether she's going to have sex or not. Like first thing in the morning, perhaps. Or as she's getting ready for bed. And no matter what happens, she won't budge from that decision.

It's also quite possible, if I can go on a short tangent, that her expression of "don't go there" isn't entirely truthful. You certainly know her better than anyone, but have you ever considered that she doesn't entirely mean what she says? I mean, it's dangerous territory, but I've on occasion not exactly listened to my wife before and it's ended up with some amazing experiences. I learned a while ago that my wife's preference is to be taken. Not quite overpowered, and definitely not forced, but a little animalistic. And as with almost all women, she also responds very very well when she's clearly pushing the right buttons and I simply can't contain/control myself. She's gone so far as to say that, every now and again, she actually wants me to wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am her. When I reacted with shock, wondering exactly WHY she'd want me to pound her for 2 minutes and not really spend any time on her, she remarked that it shows an uncontrollable desire for her, which makes her feel good. Ironically, I've expressed the exact same thing to her - that I would absolutely love for her to simply jump on top of me and ride me until she was done.

As well, and this is something I learned only a few years ago, but she does not want me to always spend as much time on her as I usually do. She wants me to enjoy myself, as well. It's like she sometimes doesn't feel like she deserves it or something.  It has nothing to do with pressure, as she's easily multi-orgasmic. It's just that, like many people, a big part of enjoying sex is that your partner is enjoying it as well.

Just a thought, but perhaps your wife may also be open to occasional, more animalistic sexual experiences from you. Not where she's being used, but more that you simply can't control yourself, you need to put it in as quickly as possible, and you give her a good thrashing. I was surprised that my wife would actually encourage this, but I do think she trusts that it would not become the norm. :grin2: But I do get it, as I would love for her to do this exact same thing to me, on occasion. Just not always!

Anyway, by contrast, my wife has (or would) never stop me from going there. As she is responsive desire, by the time I'd be "going there", she'd be ready to go, so to speak. If we're hugging, kissing and touching in bed, she'll be in the mood.

As well, she would never jump my bones, as you say, regardless of how long it's been. So your wife does have a drive, it's just not often. Mine simply does not. If it's been a while, it's not on her mind. For your wife, that doesn't seem to be true. It just takes longer than the rest of us to get to that point. The drive exists, it just works slower than most.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> Tried googling it but it mostly brings up how to cope with an LD partner. (which is relevant too).
> I just wondered whether sex drive intensity is something that is constant from partner to partner (discounting first few months of a relationship which is fuelled by hormones) or whether it is partner-dependent. or whether it's a combination of both.
> It's mostly a question for women.
> I guess I am trying to work out whether my wife's drive would be different if she was with a partner who she found more attractive.
> How do you stop finding your wife attractive? (or *as* attractive). I wish there was a pill to accomplish this. It's painful to go to bed some nights when there's this emptiness. Porn doesn't seem to help as much as it used to. It seems it is _her_ that I need.




For Mrs.CuddleBug, I asked her, if she met a country music star, would she want crazy sex with him all night? She looks at me, smiles, grins, but in the end, no. Her insecurities about her size are still the root problem that she isn't willing to address.

I stopped finding her attractive when all she did was talk and talk, nothing changes or gets accomplished and her LD and size are still an on going issue......

I too go to bed feeling empty. The physical connection = emotional connection for me isn't there with Mrs.CuddleBug.

Agreed. Occasional porn viewing only gets rid of the symptom and it's not a real solution.

A pill? Were can I buy it????:grin2:

A woman that takes care of herself, dresses sexy and rocks my world because she is HD, I would be the happiest guy on earth.......


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Vinnydee said:


> Yes it does. It can vary greatly. I had a girlfriend who was fine with sex once a week and another who wanted it before we went to work, when we got home and then woke me up for more sex in the middle of the night. Between all of that she had sex with other guys and then needed more and got into gang bangs when that was not enough. I did not love her, and she was insatiable, so I really did not care what she did on her own time.
> 
> I have had girlfriends in-between those extremes. My wife started off wanting sex a few times a day and even sharing other women with me for more sex, but after menopause her sex drive dropped to only twice a week where it is now in our mid sixties.


Sorry I didn't phrase my question well. I meant does the sex drive of one and the same partner differ when they are with other partners?
There seems to be a general assumption (forgive me if I am wrong) that the majority of the time, an LD/ND partner will remain the same with others. I am not certain this is the case (ND: perhaps, LD: not sure). If it is not the case, then it follows that part of the 'problem'/issue may be yourself (myself, in my case).
I am not sure what it means in practical terms; I can't exactly make myself hotter for my wife than I am so it is what it is, basically. 
I think a slight mismatch is not a bad thing, on balance. The problem is extremes.
First point of inquiry is try to establish WHY there is a mismatch. This can be a difficult and long process.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> Although there are many similarities between your wife and mine, I'm not sure they're the same in the long run.
> 
> From what you've said, I'd venture to say that your wife suppresses her drive more than anything. That doesn't mean she's actually super HD and just hides it. I think she may have somewhat arbitrarily decided on what's 'too much' sex for her. ie. Whatever she's comfortable with. Or more likely, she decides well in advance whether she's going to have sex or not. Like first thing in the morning, perhaps. Or as she's getting ready for bed. And no matter what happens, she won't budge from that decision.
> 
> ...


Same here. From everything I read so far from you, it seems there are many similarities. I am just surprised you'd classify your wife as ND. I would have thought ND = not interested in sex at all. I must read up on the definitions..."Responsive desire" is a new term for me. I wouldn't have thought RD is possible in combination with ND. Aren't most women who don't initiate but eventually enjoy sex ND and RD then? Isn't it just a behavioural custom for them? (Perhaps more modest/introvert/shy women are like this?)


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sure, sex drive has varied with partner. Some partners have had a high drive, and some a low drive. I don't keep the latter around long. I could be happy with one HD woman, or perhaps a half-dozen LD!


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> I meant does the sex drive of one and the same partner differ when they are with other partners?


Yes, of course it varies. Often a LD is not LD in general, they are simply LD with their current partner. Hurts to realize this when you are the HD but is often the case.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> Same here. From everything I read so far from you, it seems there are many similarities. I am just surprised you'd classify your wife as ND. I would have thought ND = not interested in sex at all. I must read up on the definitions..."Responsive desire" is a new term for me. I wouldn't have thought RD is possible in combination with ND. Aren't most women who don't initiate but eventually enjoy sex ND and RD then? Isn't it just a behavioural custom for them? (Perhaps more modest/introvert/shy women are like this?)


Yes, it's confusing, isn't it? lol! Welcome to my world. It has taken years to even begin to figure it out...

So she's ND in the context that she literally never thinks about sex, and never has. This, obviously, is her claim, but I have absolutely no reason to not believe it. She has never been 'horny' in her life, or otherwise in 'need' of sex, or orgasm. She never once masturbated until her early 30's (and even then, it lasted a few months, tops. She had gone to a sex toy party with friends, bought something, maybe to fit in with the others, and gave it a whirl. Does not get used on her own at all, anymore. Occasionally comes out with me around.)

Responsive desire is not uncommon amongst LD, or even ND people. True, ND literally means "no" desire/drive. But ND doesn't mean "never have sex". It just means there's never an _urge_ for sex (or masturbation, or orgasm). Or need for it, for that matter. Most of us _need_ sex (or masturbation, or orgasm).

Responsive desire is pretty much exactly what it sounds like it would be. Most of us have, or are capable of, spontaneous desire. We see, or think about something sexual, or some_one_. We become aroused, and we then require an outlet for this arousal.

I cut and pasted this from some website I just googled:

"Responsive desire ... looks like this. You aren’t aroused at all, but then your husband starts rubbing your back, or stroking your hair, or kissing you and you start to think “Hmm, that feels good…I might be up for some sex”. Or maybe it’s Friday night and you “always” have sex Friday night. You know, it’s not scheduled … but it’s expected. So you allow your husband to undress you and start kissing you and you’re thinking “Well, I’ll do this for him”. You’re not really aroused and so, with the help of lube, sex begins and then you start feeling something. Then you start to think “Oh, wow, that’s starting to feel good. Maybe I do want this….oh yeah, I definitely want this.” That’s responsive desire"

Now, men tend to have spontaneous desire, whereas women tend to have responsive desire - on average. However, most women also have spontaneous desire, and most men also have responsive desire. It's just that each gender tends to skew one way.

Most people, whether LD or HD, have a certain threshold in which sex suddenly becomes a requirement. Even those who count themselves as LD have a limit. I'm fairly normal drive, and I'm not sure I could go longer than a week without some sort of sexual contact, with or without a partner.

Somebody who is ND can likely go forever (or darn close to it). My wife has said that she has gone over a year without anything (solo or partnered) - _more than once_ in her life. When I started dating her, she hadn't had sex in 8 or 9 months. Even better, that was the only time in about 14 months. And that one time wasn't with some random dude because she 'needed' sex - it was with the guy she had been with for the previous 3 years. They had sex once in the last year they were together. Then 8+ months before I came along. :surprise:

Now, having been with her for ~9 years now, I can tell you she LIKES sex. When we have it. She just doesn't need it, require it, or even desire it. She has no idea why. She knows she fully enjoys it, loves orgasms, loves my **** inside her, etc etc etc. When we get going, she's the absolute best, and I kid you not, she'd put most of the women here to shame :grin2:

With her ex, she not only had the same no desire for sex, period, she had no desire for sex with _him_. For starters, he was a selfish lover. 3 minutes or less, according to her. It was all about him, and also on his schedule. Not a recipe for a willing partner, ND, LD or HD.

With me, I don't demand sex. I don't bug her about it, or pressure her. It's not on my schedule, when I want it or _how_ I want it. It's not one-sided. I also pay attention to her (too much sometimes, as it turns out...). She enjoys herself, therefore she's willing to do it. With her ex, she was getting nothing out of it. Responsive desire never kicked in, because there was nothing to respond TO.

Below is the link to the article I quoted. I believe this sums up your wife perfectly. Mine doesn't quite fit this model, unfortunately, so sex is 100% always up to me, in a manner of speaking.

Responsive vs spontaneous desire - Uncovering Intimacy


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Thanks for the article and the info. I will pass it on and report back...

I think the fact that your wife has masturbated and used sex toys at all, surely shows that some "spontaneous desire" must be there?

I throw lots of money at sex toys (many of them still unopened) and I think she did use one of those vibrating egg things a couple of times (because i told her to, apparently. I have to travel a lot and must have said to use them, if she's desperate). But she says she'd rather wait for me so it was never used again.

Recently (in the last year or two), she has started to come up to me periodically (every 3 days or so).
We used to argue a lot in the past about the fact that rejection hurts too much so I just said why doesn't she come to me whenever she is in the mood, since I am ALWAYS in the mood for her (which is true) and my own 'responsive desire' can go from 0 to 100 in a matter of seconds. 
So I don't know whether she comes to me because she wants to or because it is time. (She says she wants to but it seems unlikely because this is a new pattern for her). Once she starts going, she can get very involved, like yours it seems.

A friend of mine tells me alcohol sometimes can make wonders on getting the woman extremely horny (haven't tried it). Me dominating her (and controlling her 'horniness') seems to have worked best so far. She doesn't seem to enjoy sensual stuff as much, if it doesn't evolve into a more dominating experience later on.
It seems you found the same and it's kind of strange to witness this transformation which seems so out of character otherwise...

Yes it's all quite fascinating. It comes down to the realisation that the partner's brain and wiring can be very different and one has to accept & learn to navigate it somehow.


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## UncoveringIntimacy (Mar 11, 2017)

Hey, I wrote the article and I would disagree with some of your terms. They don't match the accepted definitions.

Spontaneous desire would be suddenly wanting sex without any seemingly outside stimulus.
Responsive desire is desiring sex after a sexual context has been introduced, it could be anything from a look to being half way through actual sex.
No desire would be asexual. They don't want sex, even when they're having sex. They don't get aroused at all and are only doing it for you. They get absolutely nothing out of it.

"However, most women also have spontaneous desire, and most men also have responsive desire. It's just that each gender tends to skew one way."
I'm not sure that's the case. 30% of women will never experience spontaneous desire, however that doesn't mean they all exhibit spontaneous desire now. As women age, they're more and more likely to become solely responsive desire only. "most" seems a little strong. And "skew" doesn't quite describe just how polarized the genders are on the types.

The other issue is that the term "sex drive" really hides a far more complicated system. There are many different parts of the brain involved, and so a particular woman's "sex drive" can change dramatically from context to context. Stress, sleep, history, theology, hydration, diet, temperature, location, and a create many other things, all get rolled into desire. And then there's physical and mental arousal, which are completely different things that are linked through another mechanism. For women, their arousal concordance (the link between mental and physical) is around 10% on average.

Anyways, to answer the original question, yes, sex drive can vary from partner to partner, because the context changes. It can also change during a single relationship if you can improve the context. I know, because my marriage was technically sexless for the first 7 years. You can contact me through my blog (UncoveringIntimacy.com) if you have further questions. I may not see a response here.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Yes, your wife might be much more sexually passionate with someone else.

But, be honest, you might be much more sexually passionate with another woman.


If you're going to stay with her; focus on her flaws to lessen your attraction to her. Her cellulite, the way she looks before she does her hair and make-up, the things she says to you when she's in a crappy mood. Focus on what is unattractive and unlikable about her. Everyone has plenty of physical and personality defects.

That should help to take the edge off of your desire.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Yes, your wife might be much more sexually passionate with someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No actually I have never been as attracted to anyone else. It could be those bonding hormones fooling me but if you put her next to a famous actress or porn star I'm still more likely to want her. Hence my insecurities that it is not the same for her. ( in terms of intensity not in terms of wanting someone else. She doesn't look around, especially).

Also, she doesn't have any physical flaws...
Yes she does say things when she's in crappy mood but they don't seem to lessen my attraction to her, generally.

Also trying to think about too many negatives about your partner can't be a good recipe for successful marriage...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

UncoveringIntimacy said:


> Anyways, to answer the original question, yes, sex drive can vary from partner to partner, because the context changes. It can also change during a single relationship if you can improve the context. I know, because my marriage was technically sexless for the first 7 years. You can contact me through my blog (UncoveringIntimacy.com) if you have further questions. I may not see a response here.


Good articles @UncoveringIntimacy.

Makes a lot of sense and is well written too.

That's what I thought about ND. Are there really women like that? One missing part of the puzzle might be partner compatibility and how it relates to the desire/drive/willingness. I'm sure partner must play a bigger role than your article might imply (how this interacts with the definitions etc. this is not a criticism). It's extremely difficult to test it for obvious reasons plus it is not a very satisfying realisation..if that is really the case.

Which context changed in your marriage, may I ask?

"Spontaneous desire would be suddenly wanting sex without any seemingly outside stimulus."

This doesn't seem quite right: there are *always* outside stimuli. It's about how we choose to react to them (or whether we choose). For me it is usually simple interaction with my wife or a thought about her. (I see you wrote "seemingly" but still). For her: she can make herself want sex it seems. She said if she thinks about it beforehand or during the day then at night she'll be good to go...Which is also difficult for me to understand because I don't really see where I play a part in that...

I think it's also more behavioural: a more outgoing/extravert person will show & react to the stimuli more. Or some may not react to the outside stimuli at all or little or in their own way. It's a big maze...


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## UncoveringIntimacy (Mar 11, 2017)

Glad you enjoyed the articles!

Are there women who are asexual? Yes, not many, but it does happen. I think there are more who claim to be asexual, but often they're blocking themselves from being open to having sexual feelings. That's not quite the same thing, though it presents in the same way and they likely believe themselves to be asexual.

I personally don't believe in "compatibility". The only real compatibility issues are pride and selfishness. If you can drop those, anyone is compatible. We have generations of arranged marriages to prove that. 

"Which context changed in your marriage, may I ask?"

Well, I quit watching porn. My wife realized how important sex was. That all came after we focused on communication so we could actually talk about the issues. In short, the context that changed was our relationship. We focused on making it better, deeper, more intimate, and the sex came with it.

"'Spontaneous desire would be suddenly wanting sex without any seemingly outside stimulus.'

This doesn't seem quite right: there are always outside stimuli. It's about how we choose to react to them (or whether we choose). For me it is usually simple interaction with my wife or a thought about her. (I see you wrote "seemingly" but still). For her: she can make herself want sex it seems. She said if she thinks about it beforehand or during the day then at night she'll be good to go...Which is also difficult for me to understand because I don't really see where I play a part in that..."

Right, it's seeming, because there's always some stimulus. So, here's sort of how it works. Your physical arousal level is dictated by your subconscious mind and it's constantly looking for sexually relevant contexts. If it sees one, then it tells the body "hey, this is sexually relevant, we should prepare for potential sex". For men, this means we often get an erection, and sometimes we don't even know why. Our subconscious saw something we consciously notice. But, since we're men, we get an erection, and THAT we notice. And so suddenly we start thinking about sex, or about our wife, or whatever. It seems spontaneous, but it's not. Because of this, I think, men have a much higher concordance between their physical and mental arousal. It's not perfect, only about 50%. But, that's pretty high compared to the 10% for women.

For women, their mind will notice something sexually relevant, and they'll start getting physically aroused. However, it's not as obvious in a female body. So, it's far less likely she'll notice and start getting aroused. As well, our society has trained men to see almost everything as sexually relevant and women to think that almost nothing is. Actually, we tend to train women to believe that sexually relevant contexts are a threat. And so that re-wires that mechanism to not see as many sexually relevant contexts as men.

All this together means that women have far fewer -seemingly- spontaneous arousal points in their life.

Add to that that women are often cronically stressed, with hits the breaks on their subconsious arousal patterns as well, because for most women, stress does not equal a good time for sex, whereas for many men, sex is a stress relief. 

This is, unfortunately, just the tip of the iceberg, but I'm trying to relay a ton of information in a few paragraphs. I've spent the last 5 years reading, blogging and talking to couples and spouses about this sort of thing, and I'm still learning.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

Fozzy said:


> I stopped finding mine attractive after I'd had my fill of not getting my emotional needs met. The drive difference was a problem, but it was only after I really understood that my wife had zero interest in even working on it that my attraction to her completely tanked. I had a need for her to be a partner with me, but she elected not to participate.


How did you find out?


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Seriously though where can I read up on this or what is reasonable to expect? (before it's in the 'needy' territory). I can't really verbalise what it is that is not being met as I don't quite understand it myself...
> Something isn't being met otherwise I doubt I'd feel the emptiness or pain so often.


Don't try to figure it out yourself. Go to a trained professional. That is what they are there to do.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

urf said:


> How did you find out?


She'd been telling me for years but I was too thick-headed to listen. She'd refuse to read any books I'd ask her to, she'd shut down conversations, etc. Excuses for everything, and when the excuses would run out, she'd turn to flat out "I don't want to listen to this".

It was my own fault for spending as long as I did.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

Fozzy said:


> She'd been telling me for years but I was too thick-headed to listen. She'd refuse to read any books I'd ask her to, she'd shut down conversations, etc. Excuses for everything, and when the excuses would run out, she'd turn to flat out "I don't want to listen to this".
> 
> It was my own fault for spending as long as I did.


You are now divorced I assume. Are either of you in new relationships? Are they any happier?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

UncoveringIntimacy said:


> Glad you enjoyed the articles!
> 
> Are there women who are asexual? Yes, not many, but it does happen. I think there are more who claim to be asexual, but often they're blocking themselves from being open to having sexual feelings. That's not quite the same thing, though it presents in the same way and they likely believe themselves to be asexual.
> 
> I personally don't believe in "compatibility". The only real compatibility issues are pride and selfishness. If you can drop those, anyone is compatible. We have generations of arranged marriages to prove that.


Interesting point of view. Are you sure the arranged marriages prove this and not the fact that society pushed women to be more obedient and just learn to live with the sorry situation that they have been forced into? They did not have an alternative to begin with really.

This is the thing and I don't want to open pandora's boxes but it seems to me somewhat irrational to leave yourself/myself (or anyone) and my wife's attraction levels/intensity towards me out of the equation completely. From your writing, it makes a lot of sense to explain basically almost any type of behaviour and navigate through it with success (as far as it is possible, given the pre-requisites of each other's attractions). But I am not sure it would be good enough, in the big picture, if one of the main underlying causes for ND/LD/SD (slow drive)/NR etc was the fact that she just wasn't as into me as she could be, if she found a more compatible partner. This seems like a vital piece to me that might be missing from your reasoning and I assume many people's reasoning, because it is just a very painful truth that one can not really do that much about. (If it is even true.)
Have you examined how sexual attraction works on a biological level? (Hormones, pheromones etc). It would seem to me that instinctive/animalistic/subconscious elements play a MUCH more important role in partner selection or how one feels about their partner throughout the relationship, rather than their willingness to drop the pride & selfishness etc. Of course changing certain behavioural patterns consciously (being more considerate, intimate, willing etc) can go some way, but not all the way...And it would be biologically unnatural to force it.

Ok this is a longwinded way to say this: say there was another male, like myself, but my wife had a significantly stronger attraction for him (without jumping through all the hoops to get herself there). If I was considerate and really loved her altruistically, I should break up with her & let her be with that partner, because in the long run, there is a MUCH higher probability that she will be more fulfilled. Of course I am not really able to do this, due to selfishness (and due to the fact that I may still be missing something). But it seems (in the words of Spock) the only logical course of action. Or at least something worth considering.

But the other voice in me tells me that the bit that I might be missing, I think, is that sexual attraction (no matter how complex) may be just one of the many components that contribute towards a soup of various ingredients, to give the relationship a higher or lower chance of success (there are so many others, including superficial things like bank account balance/ability to provide). However the woman's sexual attraction part towards her counterpart, I think, is one of the more important ones (I would guess it would make up at least 70%), hence why I focus so much on it. I think without it (or if the attraction is weak), there's really not such a high chance to succeed. I sometimes wonder whether all these terms (ND/LD/RD etc) are in fact there making us avoid the real issue. Because on the other end of the spectrum, the answer to my question seems to be "of course her sex drive will manifest itself differently with somebody else". Would we not be fighting a loosing battle, if that was the case? 



UncoveringIntimacy said:


> "Which context changed in your marriage, may I ask?"
> 
> Well, I quit watching porn. My wife realized how important sex was. That all came after we focused on communication so we could actually talk about the issues. In short, the context that changed was our relationship. We focused on making it better, deeper, more intimate, and the sex came with it.


.

Anything in particular that you did? Any books you'd recommend how to make it "deeper & intimate"? I know what you mean; it is really impossible to write these things down in a few paragraphs. That's why I enjoyed your articles: the flow is great & very comprehensible.


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## Andrew Dixon (Mar 12, 2017)

I think it does. My wife has no sex drive at all. She hasn't for almost 4yrs. Hand and a few websites and fantacy thinking. I love my wife even though this no sex thing really pisses me off.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

urf said:


> You are now divorced I assume. Are either of you in new relationships? Are they any happier?


Not divorced. I've simply lost attraction to her, as she has to me. I still love her, I'm just not attracted to her anymore.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> Not divorced. I've simply lost attraction to her, as she has to me. I still love her, I'm just not attracted to her anymore.


Have you ever turned your wife down, Fozzy?


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## californian (Jan 28, 2010)

badsanta said:


> I have for the first time found what I can truly love – I have found you. You are my sympathy – my better self – my good angel; I am bound to you with a strong attachment. I think you good, gifted, lovely: a fervent, a solemn passion is conceived in my heart; it leans to you, draws you to my center and spring of life, wraps my existence about you – and, kindling in pure, powerful flame, fuses you and me in one. - Charlotte Bronte’s Jane Eyre


Sounds like a masturbation piece.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

Fozzy said:


> Not divorced. I've simply lost attraction to her, as she has to me. I still love her, I'm just not attracted to her anymore.


So what is your "payoff" by remaining in a marriage that causes you to feel the way you express you feelings here?


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

californian said:


> Sounds like a masturbation piece.


I have for the first time found what I can truly love – I have found you. You are my sympathy – my better self – my good angel; I am bound to you with a strong attachment. I think you good, gifted, lovely: a fervent, a solemn passion is conceived in my heart; it leans to you, draws you to my center and spring of life, wraps my existence about you – and, kindling in pure, powerful flame, fuses you and me in one. - Charlotte Bronte’s Jane Eyre


Sounds like coitus


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Have you ever turned your wife down, Fozzy?


I'm sure I probably did at some point early in the relationship, but I haven't in a very long time.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> I'm sure I probably did at some point early in the relationship, but I haven't in a very long time.


Sorry things have not improved fo you, brother.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Andrew Dixon said:


> I think it does. My wife has no sex drive at all. She hasn't for almost 4yrs. Hand and a few websites and fantacy thinking. I love my wife even though this no sex thing really pisses me off.




It will get worse with time. Has the resentment started yet?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> I think the fact that your wife has masturbated and used sex toys at all, surely shows that some "spontaneous desire" must be there?
> 
> *It seems like it, but I'd have to say no, in all honesty.
> 
> ...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

UncoveringIntimacy said:


> Hey, I wrote the article and I would disagree with some of your terms. They don't match the accepted definitions.
> 
> Spontaneous desire would be suddenly wanting sex without any seemingly outside stimulus.
> Responsive desire is desiring sex after a sexual context has been introduced, it could be anything from a look to being half way through actual sex.
> ...


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## GavinM (Jan 13, 2014)

I know that, for some women at least (and I would presume all to some extent), that their drive, or desire can vary dramatically from person to person. There are many reasons for this. A key factor being the quality of the relationship. "Quality" being used as a catch-all for all the things that make a relationship special and nice. Of course there are also many physical factors that also influence this, but I would say that for many people most come into play.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I had another take on this. Some partners lived farther away, so the sex drive was longer. And some lived in more mountainous areas, so that involved a higher drive. Occasionally the ones at the beach (sea level) - a closer, lower drive - were better partners, though. So, my sex drive varied, but was always worth it. I'm only talking about those in drivable distance - not those requiring air travel.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Interesting point of view. Are you sure the arranged marriages prove this and not the fact that society pushed women to be more obedient and just learn to live with the sorry situation that they have been forced into? They did not have an alternative to begin with really.
> 
> This is the thing and I don't want to open pandora's boxes but it seems to me somewhat irrational to leave yourself/myself (or anyone) and my wife's attraction levels/intensity towards me out of the equation completely. From your writing, it makes a lot of sense to explain basically almost any type of behaviour and navigate through it with success (as far as it is possible, given the pre-requisites of each other's attractions). But I am not sure it would be good enough, in the big picture, if one of the main underlying causes for ND/LD/SD (slow drive)/NR etc was the fact that she just wasn't as into me as she could be, if she found a more compatible partner. This seems like a vital piece to me that might be missing from your reasoning and I assume many people's reasoning, because it is just a very painful truth that one can not really do that much about. (If it is even true.)
> Have you examined how sexual attraction works on a biological level? (Hormones, pheromones etc). It would seem to me that instinctive/animalistic/subconscious elements play a MUCH more important role in partner selection or how one feels about their partner throughout the relationship, rather than their willingness to drop the pride & selfishness etc. Of course changing certain behavioural patterns consciously (being more considerate, intimate, willing etc) can go some way, but not all the way...And it would be biologically unnatural to force it.
> ...



I've avoided this thread because I couldn't offer any reasonable advice. I still can't but I have to say that I think the woman's drive is more complex than even I can fathom. I've noticed changes in my sexual persona over the last year that were surprising, and more recently, concerning.

I can say for certain that my sex drive varies from partner to partner. It was at zero with my last. My current partner: I've never obsessed so much about sex with anyone prior; I've never enjoyed the act itself as much; I've never felt so comfortable being super freaky with another. Basically, I don't think it's possible to be any more sexually compatible than we are.

The first thing I started noticing about a year ago: I observed myself enjoying the sex with him in a way I never felt before. There was something nurturing about it and filling. It was no longer just raw lusting. Like he belonged in my vagina or something.

Next I noticed my own moaning. One time I was on top of him for quite some time and realized I wasn't making any sounds. Immediately I thought, I hope he doesn't think I'm not enjoying it. Then I started to wonder if I've been faking moaning all this time? Do women just do it to make men feel good? But it comes so naturally?? Except when I'm on top? I still haven't figured that one out, it screws with my head too much.

Then I realized that after sex, sometimes I still wanted to masturbate till orgasm. This is even after having multiple orgasms from sex and feeling so satisfied that I don't want any more sex. Do I just want to masturbate because we've been long distance for some time and that's what I'm used to? If that was the case wouldn't I have experienced this with others after being single and only masturbating for quite some time? How can I not want to orgasm any more from sex with him but still want to bring my own self to orgasm, especially when they're both clitoral orgasms? 

More recently I started noticing that I'm not spontaneously horny in the way I've known myself to be for my entire sexual life. Prior to the last year, I would think about sex at least once every half hour. My panties would be constantly soaked. I couldn't go to sleep without thinking about sex. The only lucid dreams I ever had were sex related. I didn't just recognize I was in a dream, I was able to do crazy sexual stuff because I knew there would be zero repercussions. 

Less spontaneous horniness towards my partner yet every now and then I want to masturbate, without my partner. WTH?! I feel like I just don't want sex as much as I used to before. Could it be that I'm just getting too much??

The sex is still just as good. Honestly its better than it has ever been because he's now into oral(giving), anal and satisfies my obsession with bjs better. I'm happier than I've ever been. 

So I don't quite understand what's happening to my sexuality. I'm worried that I'm becoming LD. And I'm concerned about what other changes will come next. It's all very strange.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lot of good stuff here - and then - what I consider total nonsense - the bit about compatibility. 

Plenty of women I just would not sleep with. Just the truth. If my parents had jammed me into an arranged marriage with someone like that - I might be able to procreate with them - to have children - if I had a strong desire for kids - but I wouldn't have recreational sex with them. 

Equating the ability to procreate - which is purely the ability to orgasm inside a partner - with the idea that you actually enjoy the experience as recreation - is a false equivalence. 





UncoveringIntimacy said:


> Glad you enjoyed the articles!
> 
> Are there women who are asexual? Yes, not many, but it does happen. I think there are more who claim to be asexual, but often they're blocking themselves from being open to having sexual feelings. That's not quite the same thing, though it presents in the same way and they likely believe themselves to be asexual.
> 
> ...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Keke24 said:


> Less spontaneous horniness towards my partner yet every now and then I want to masturbate, without my partner. WTH?! I feel like I just don't want sex as much as I used to before. Could it be that I'm just getting too much??
> 
> The sex is still just as good. Honestly its better than it has ever been because he's now into oral(giving), anal and satisfies my obsession with bjs better. I'm happier than I've ever been.
> 
> So I don't quite understand what's happening to my sexuality. I'm worried that I'm becoming LD. And I'm concerned about what other changes will come next. It's all very strange.


I think that's just normal for almost every relationship. It's not that it gets _boring_, it's that it's no longer exciting the way it was when everything was new.

Add to that the fact that you said you've never quite had this level of compatibility before AND that your previous partner didn't really do it for you. My wife pretty much did the same thing with me. Most recent ex did absolutely nothing for her, and she and I have this insane physical compatibility. It's still good, but it's _expected_ now, for lack of a better term. What was once raw and sweaty and freaky is now the norm. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's no longer shiny and new.

In addition, my wife went through a period, not long after the "newness" wore off, I suspect, where she would sometimes masturbate after sex, as well. Whether I was there with her, or had gone elsewhere in the house. I found it odd at the time (wasn't I enough?) but she swore it wasn't that. It's just that she hadn't quite gotten it out of her system. There are occasional times where I've also wanted more, despite me having been fully satisfied. I can't quite explain it, either, but it's happened to me, as well. Almost like one doesn't want the euphoria to end.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> I heard about how this can happen. Is this something that happens overnight (or fairly quickly)? Or more gradually? Often, even if I feel hurt by her, I still am very attracted.
> 
> Emotional needs: do men have those?
> Seriously though where can I read up on this or what is reasonable to expect? (before it's in the 'needy' territory). I can't really verbalise what it is that is not being met as I don't quite understand it myself...
> Something isn't being met otherwise I doubt I'd feel the emptiness or pain so often.


It's difficult to understand how your wife's behaviour has little impact on your drive. Mine is almost completely dependent on my partner. Or perhaps it's dependent on my immediate response to his behaviour. Hmm I need to think about this more... 

My gut feeling is that this is mostly a female thing because of the link between affection/intimacy and sex that seems inseparable for women. I have a very difficult time having sex when things are not good between us. You'd swear I was being raped. Even if I want it just to feel close, that feeling quickly fizzles into me not feeling loved and used for sex in that moment.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

UncoveringIntimacy said:


> H
> No desire would be asexual. They don't want sex, even when they're having sex. They don't get aroused at all and are only doing it for you. They get absolutely nothing out of it.


Does a male person as described above have an erection?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Keke24 said:


> I've avoided this thread because I couldn't offer any reasonable advice. I still can't but I have to say that I think the woman's drive is more complex than even I can fathom. I've noticed changes in my sexual persona over the last year that were surprising, and more recently, concerning.
> 
> I can say for certain that my sex drive varies from partner to partner. It was at zero with my last. My current partner: I've never obsessed so much about sex with anyone prior; I've never enjoyed the act itself as much; I've never felt so comfortable being super freaky with another. Basically, I don't think it's possible to be any more sexually compatible than we are.
> 
> ...


I was always wondering if there actually are women who have that sort of boy-ish* drive that you are describing of yourself: _"Prior to the last year, I would think about sex at least once every half hour. My panties would be constantly soaked. I couldn't go to sleep without thinking about sex. The only lucid dreams I ever had were sex related. I didn't just recognize I was in a dream, I was able to do crazy sexual stuff because I knew there would be zero repercussions._ 

So it's not a myth then 

I write boy-ish because that kind of spontaneous urge used to be incredibly annoying when I was a boy, walking around with an erection, bumping into things and wanting to hump inanimate objects like pillars or trees, for no apparent reason. It got better eventually after I learned about masturbation and got a girlfriend etc (poor thing, she had no idea she was a substitute for a very sexy pillar we had at home). 

Anyway, I am sure sex drive changes over the course of a relationship. How long have you actually been living together with your current bf? After first 6 months, the hormones tend to wear off and then things normalise (and when couples start to notice other things about each other apart from "I want to have sex with them 24/7"). Actually that's when many think that they fall out of love and freak out.

_Then I realized that after sex, sometimes I still wanted to masturbate till orgasm. This is even after having multiple orgasms from sex and feeling so satisfied that I don't want any more sex. Do I just want to masturbate because we've been long distance for some time and that's what I'm used to? If that was the case wouldn't I have experienced this with others after being single and only masturbating for quite some time? How can I not want to orgasm any more from sex with him but still want to bring my own self to orgasm, especially when they're both clitoral orgasms? _

I am not sure why this might be the case. I know my wife can relatively easily come from PIV and then (less easily) from oral but it used to be the other way around before we had kids. Also she doesn't come as easily from the same thing twice. I was gonna say that perhaps because you were used coming from masturbation (clitoral) that after PIV/sex maybe you still felt something was missing but maybe not. I am not sure how it works. My wife never masturbates after we have sex. I vaguely remember her doing it once or twice a long time ago when she either didn't come properly or didn't come at all (whenever I was too quick in the past). But then she never masturbated in any case (apart from once or twice). She had sex dreams, she tells me I was involved in them but it seems her body operates very differently from yours. I hadn't realised there are such big variations. Among men, I am not sure the variation is that great. I don't think there are many LD men but I could be wrong.

_"The sex is still just as good. Honestly its better than it has ever been because he's now into oral(giving), anal *and satisfies my obsession with bjs better*."_

I have never seen it put like this. It made me smile and will probably make many men jump out of windows out of jealousy 

I am sure it's just normal developments within a healthy relationship (regarding your "changes"). What is interesting to me is that so many things happen on a subconscious level. It's not "deliberate" that one fells more or less attraction to a partner. One can make yourself have sex with someone (up to a point) but chemistry has to be right to begin with. And it's nobody's fault if it sometmes isn't...


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

"I was always wondering if there actually are women who have that sort of boy-ish* drive that you are describing of yourself."

I don't know that this is so uncommon among women as opposed to there being many women who are not comfortable being open about their sexual desires. At least a handful of my female friends are similar. Hmm I wonder if they're experiencing some of the same changes.

"How long have you actually been living together with your current bf?"

Moved in just a little over 6 months. A month here, a month there over last 5 years.

"My wife never masturbates after we have sex. I vaguely remember her doing it once or twice a long time ago when she either didn't come properly or didn't come at all (whenever I was too quick in the past). But then she never masturbated in any case (apart from once or twice)."

She never masturbates? I'm not sure how that works either. Very different...

" What is interesting to me is that so many things happen on a subconscious level. It's not "deliberate" that one fells more or less attraction to a partner. One can make yourself have sex with someone (up to a point) but chemistry has to be right to begin with. And it's nobody's fault if it sometmes isn't..."

I thought about my last relationship experience and was going to disagree with the idea that the attraction happens at a subconscious level, but I think you are onto something here. It took me a long time to realise the loss of attraction. And even longer to figure out the why.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Keke24 said:


> It's difficult to understand how your wife's behaviour has little impact on your drive. Mine is almost completely dependent on my partner. Or perhaps it's dependent on my immediate response to his behaviour. Hmm I need to think about this more...
> 
> My gut feeling is that this is mostly a female thing because of the link between affection/intimacy and sex that seems inseparable for women. I have a very difficult time having sex when things are not good between us. You'd swear I was being raped. Even if I want it just to feel close, that feeling quickly fizzles into me not feeling loved and used for sex in that moment.


Yes it's strange. There are generally two emotions I have towards my wife most of the time: either I feel aroused by her and I want to **** her or I feel annoyed and want to **** her. In all the scenarios I always want to **** her. If the latter happens and I am annoyed, it's generally because she's trying to pick a fight (usually during PMS) and ****ing the "demons" out of her, actually helps a lot of the time...
Ok this is a very simplified version and if my wife read it, we would have a massive fight, rightly so. (And then I'd probably want to **** her  (make up sex is the best!).

I know with women it is not like this at all. Either women's emotions are much more complicated or the drive is much more connected to them. My wife would not have sex with me if she is annoyed about something or feels resentment. As you say, it will feel a bit like rape. but then, she sometimes likes being "raped" by me a little bit so maybe it's ok 
(yes, I know, it's different kind of rape. Where she "lets" me rape her. But then it's not really rape so...confusing).
Would you still want to masturbate etc by yourself if you had a fight and couldn't have sex with your partner? I just wonder whether sex drive in HD women has an independent life as well. (it does with men, I think).

All in all, I think she is great because she is trying hard. And from reading these forums, it seems a lot of women often don't even bother trying. Although she says she also wants it and gets offended whenever I bring the subject up and ask her if she came up to me because she wanted to or because it was time. And maybe she does want it now more than before. It is possible I am overly sensitive/still hurting from the times when she would use lack of sex, against me (she did say the other day that she used to do a bit of it). It will probably take time for me to stop constantly second-guessing her actions. I don't seem to remember it as well but I am convinced my **** likes carrying grudges all day long. Otherwise I can't explain this new-found paranoia.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Keke24 said:


> "I was always wondering if there actually are women who have that sort of boy-ish* drive that you are describing of yourself."
> 
> I don't know that this is so uncommon among women as opposed to there being many women who are not comfortable being open about their sexual desires. At least a handful of my female friends are similar. Hmm I wonder if they're experiencing some of the same changes.
> 
> ...


Ah, see? The magical 6 months...I realise you have been together far longer but it's living/settling down together that is the real test for any relationship. It's completely ok to experience changes. All it means is that you both have to work a bit harder an consciously put in an effort to make things exciting (take time out to spend together, go on dates (I have been told) is a good idea etc.





Keke24 said:


> She never masturbates? I'm not sure how that works either. Very different...


 Yes, I wondered how this can be. But apparently she only masturbated a few times in her life. Once because she was curious and the other time because I told her to...
She says she'd rather wait for me, to let me do it for her..I doubt it's because of laziness....
Do many women still do it even though their sex life is regular? I certainly don't need to if it happens every 2-3 days. Maybe I am not as HD as I thought I was...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

IMP,
Sincere effort/commitment is a type of true love. 

And - provided you can differentiate between 'taking' your wife - and 'forcing' your wife - I would wager those are her best experiences with you. 

I live with 3 cats. Two (quadrepreds) by way of 'pet rescue', and a large (bipedal) jungle cat by way of marriage. 

The behavioral overlaps are striking. For example - the link below describes a scientific study related to how cats react to the firm squeeze of skin - back of their neck. To summarize the study results: The cat relaxes and becomes compliant. This is not a 'paralyzed by fear' reaction. It's an expression of trust. In the feline world it is best described as: Oh - mommy has decided to move us to a different location. 

For those of us with wives that trust and love us, there is an analogous move - produces the same relaxed - go with the flow response. Only difference being that this seems to create voltage across a part of the female circuit board - creates intense sexual passion. 


The one myth about cats that's actually true







inmyprime said:


> Yes it's strange. There are generally two emotions I have towards my wife most of the time: either I feel aroused by her and I want to **** her or I feel annoyed and want to **** her. In all the scenarios I always want to **** her. If the latter happens and I am annoyed, it's generally because she's trying to pick a fight (usually during PMS) and ****ing the "demons" out of her, actually helps a lot of the time...
> Ok this is a very simplified version and if my wife read it, we would have a massive fight, rightly so. (And then I'd probably want to **** her  (make up sex is the best!).
> 
> I know with women it is not like this at all. Either women's emotions are much more complicated or the drive is much more connected to them. My wife would not have sex with me if she is annoyed about something or feels resentment. As you say, it will feel a bit like rape. but then, she sometimes likes being "raped" by me a little bit so maybe it's ok
> ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

For those of us with wives who don't love us, or don't trust us, or both, just say "no thank you" a few times. Creates intense voltage across the female circuit board - "I'll show him who can't resist whom". Trouble is, if you turn her down too often, she will find some other guy who says "yes ma'am, may I have another". Very difficult to know in advance how many times is too often.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

It is true, you can use someone's desire to be loved - to create the odd spark here and there by rejecting them.

That is totally different than what we're discussing below.




Holdingontoit said:


> For those of us with wives who don't love us, or don't trust us, or both, just say "no thank you" a few times. Creates intense voltage across the female circuit board - "I'll show him who can't resist whom". Trouble is, if you turn her down too often, she will find some other guy who says "yes ma'am, may I have another". Very difficult to know in advance how many times is too often.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Yes, I know. Most people have the capacity to feel the "kitten effect" for someone they love and trust. Sorry to hijaak.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> Also, she doesn't have any physical flaws...
> 
> Also trying to think about too many negatives about your partner can't be a good recipe for successful marriage...



Contact the media then; the first woman since Eve to not have any physical flaws.




> It's painful to go to bed some nights when there's this emptiness.


Your marriage is already unsuccessful to an extent. You said in your OP that you wish there was a pill to make you find your wife less attractive because she doesn't want you as much. That's not a definition of success.

But go ahead and worship her to your hearts content. Your life. Your emotions.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Contact the media then; the first woman since Eve to not have any physical flaws.


She has no physical flaws *to me*. (She also doesn't really have flaws objectively either but I guess it's impossible for me to be objective.) Yes I probably worship her a bit. Is it wrong?



notmyrealname4 said:


> Your marriage is already *unsuccessful* to an extent. You said in your OP that you wish there was a pill to make you find your wife less attractive because she doesn't want you as much. That's not a definition of success.
> 
> But go ahead and worship her to your hearts content. Your life. Your emotions.


What criteria is used to judge a successful marriage?

It seems to me that it is impossible to have the balance right where each partner desires each other with exactly the same intensity. Maybe it is possible but it seems at least rare.
There are just too many factors at play. Part of it is personality (some people maybe have a hard time expressing passion). Part of it is the fact that some people maybe don't place sexual desire that high on their list of needs (LD-ish, I guess). Part of it is exhaustion.

What I want to know is whether her desire for me is anywhere near the spectrum that mine is on. Or whether she is just trying hard. But I know I am obsessing about it (and her) too much.

Maybe it does not matter but I would be very curious to know the truth one day...


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Yes - it varies. My ex didn't enjoy sex from start to end of 23 years, my wife of 4 years enjoys sex daily and expects it.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

This pill you seek is progesterone- but can make you sleepy.


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