# Is Marriage Worth it?



## Razor1777

Hi guys,

I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


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## uhtred

It depends on what you want. For me, marriage is mostly just a convenient social and legal confirmation of a relationship that is already permanent. 

If you don't see any benefit to it in your situation, then don't do it.


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## I shouldnthave

I am a woman, but from what you have said about your circumstance, I do not see a good reason to get married.

Would this be your second time around?

I think if a couple wants to have children, they should marry, beyond that, eh.

That said, I, well we, my husband and I, do not want children, and are married. But we married after 14 years of being together. It made sense for a number of legal and economic reasons (and no, its not because I wanted his money, I earn 2x what he does).

In the end, if we were to get divorced, I would probably be the loser economically. An increasing percent of households have a female primary earner - if no kids are involved, a man wouldn't get fleeced in a divorce, unless perhaps you earn a significant amount more than she does.

And sure, there were some romantic aspects to getting married, but in the end, it is a piece of paper, a contract that you have to be ready for.


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## SentHereForAReason

38, about ready to finalize Divorce after 14 years of Marriage, 18 years together

Hmm, I was all set to answer but then saw the part where you don't want kids. Even with all that I went through, with her cheating and everything else that went with it, I don't regret getting married and I wouldn't rule out getting married again. It's what I wanted in life but a lot of that was tied to being a family too. My kids are my life and I want a stable home for them with both a mother and a father and to go through life like that, becoming grandparents, retiring, enjoying each other's company, etc. My faith and my family are the two most important things in my life so I still place a high value on marriage but needless to say, that the sanctity of it and my faith in humanity has been quite shaken.

Because of what is important to me, I would get married again and I would recommend it for those that share the same values or just want to commit to someone with the intentions of it being forever but also doing what it takes to make sure it lasts forever, at least doing what it takes on their end.

How old are you, how old is your GF and does she want to get married?


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## jorgegene

marriage has many benefits.

1. relationship security. makes it hard to just pack your bags and leave, it entails a prolonged legal process which 
most people don't want to go through. more positively, you are at least at the time committing for life.

2. The legal benefits regarding taxes, visitation rights, shared assets.

3. if you are serious about any of the worlds major religions, there is no other option.

4. it just plain feels good to call someone your wife or husband rather than 'girlfriend' at least for me. 'girlfriend' is to me just 'blah' and transitory
compared to 'wife'. you are bonded, and you have joined in mystical union. you are now one not two. (and you don't have to be religious to buy into that and appreciate 
it's potential). after about 50 years assault on and devaluation of marriage, people are still getting married for a reason..........it feels great

yes, its worth it.

as for me i'm an old geezer who married late in life. 5+ years now. the trick is finding the right person and that's the HARD part.
there's just not that many out there. many years and relationships searching.


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## oldshirt

I am 54. I was a single man until I married at almost 32 and have been married 22 years currently and have two teenagers.

My opinion and values and outlooks on marriage has changed a lot over the years. 

I grew up in a small, Midwestern, farming community where you married your high school sweetheart, crapped out a couple kids, coached baseball and soccer and served on the booster clubs selling candy bars and lemonade at the concession stand. 

That's what was expected of you and that's what many did. 

I see things differently now. 

In your situation, I think the benefit of marriage is geared more towards benefitting your GF and her offspring rather than you personally. The Cosmos wants minor children to be protected and wants adults to be legally accountable to taking care of them. 

The cosmos really doesn't care about adult males. That is why we send them to war, send them to prison and don't care when they are sick and homeless and living in a cardboard box under a bridge. 

Marriage is a legal construct hold adults accountable for rearing and providing for children, And then it is also a legal means of passing your property and resources down to your legal heirs when you die. 

It is also a legal means to protect mothers and women so that they do not starve in the street when a man decides he's had enough of her and discards her for a younger one. This is a carry over from back in the days that women did not hold employment outside the home. 

So in other words, marriage is legal protectant for mothers and their children. It really doesn't do much for an adult man. 

In today's society where women are expected to be employed (or at least employable) and where the court systems are going to order child support for minor children even if no marital contract exists, and given the fact that there are no social barriers against premarital or extramarital sex, there really is no bona fide, nuts and bolts benefit of an employed, adult male that does not plan to have children to get married.


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## oldshirt

Now that being said, all of your GF's friends and family and nosey aunts and church ladies are going to want you to legally marry her and they will tongue-click and shake their heads and look at you with scorn the longer you don't. 

That is because on a deep, instinctual level, they want another man to be held accountable for the support and protection of her children. 

And she herself will want some form of higher authority to ensure that her offspring will be supported and protected in the event she is unable. 

So bottom line here is, no, there really is no nuts and bolts benefit to you directly for marrying if you do not intend to father your own biological children. 

However, there may be some indirect, social benefits. If she is a good match for you and you love her and want to be with her, she may be more invested in you and in your relationship if you marry her. 

She does have the right to seek marriage if that is her desire. And she would be within her right and prerogative to dump you to seek marriage or to dump you in another man comes along that offers marriage. 

And her friends and family and her community circle may be more accepting of you and will honor and respect your relationship more than if you were just some Shack Up Guy. 

That may not necessarily seem like a critical factor on the surface, but it can be. Over the years I have known a number of single mothers living with BFs who's friends and nosey aunts and church ladies will try to hook her up with "marriage-minded" men right in front of the BF.

If friends and family do not see your relationship as valid and legitimate, they can cause a tremendous amount of trouble and damage.


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## oldshirt

In the end, you are going to have to weigh all of the real-world, direct and indirect pros and cons and risks and benefits of marriage to this person. 

I would also advise seeking premarital legal advice from a family law attorney and consider some form of prenup. 

Look into things like what will happen with her kids if a truck runs a red light and she gets killed on the way home from the grocery store?

In many jurisdictions, you are automatically a legal guardian, 

What will happen if you divorce? will you be held accountable for child support for her kids? Some places you are; some places you are not. You need to know how that is handled in your jurisdiction. 

What will happen if she becomes a drug addict or alcoholic or an otherwise unfit mother? Or what is she doesn't get killed in the car wreck but has a head injury and unable to adequately care for the children? will you be on the hook to raise her kids?

These are the things you need to look into before making a decision.


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## tech-novelist

I'm happily married to my second (and last) wife. But I'm almost 70, so outside the range you are asking about.

But would I get married again in the US today if something happened to my wife?

Not on your life. It is WAY too dangerous for too little benefit.


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## Married but Happy

There can be some financial and legal benefits to marriage, but in general I think it's a bad idea for most people, especially if you don't plan to have children together. The main financial benefit I see only applies if there is a significant disparity in income, so assuming you stay together in retirement, the lower earning spouse can obtain benefits at half the amount of the higher earner's Social Security retirement benefit (if they've been married at least 10 years). Of course, a large disparity in income also means that if the marriage fails, you may be on the hook for a large settlement and possibly long term alimony payments. Aside from a very few positives, there can be serious drawbacks to being married, particularly if one of you has to go into long term care. If you have a lot of money to pay out of pocket so you don't need Medicaid help, then marriage is fine. Otherwise, you have to use most of the couple's assets first, before Medicaid kicks in, and that can be a real burden and make for a bleak future for the healthy spouse.

Bottom line: It's not worth it, except in specific circumstances. And I say that while having an amazingly great marriage (this time).


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## sa58

Married for 30 + years. We both graduated college
and live independent lives several years. When we met
somehow we knew, marriage. We have both grow together.
Gone through good and bad times. (life changes )
Adult kids, traveled, grand kids, property, assets etc.

Could the marriage end anytime yes. One of us could 
decide to leave. We have spent half our adult lives together.
Would I survive yes. I have been on my own before and can 
again. Would I remarry No,
In today's society marriage does not seem to have as
much value anymore. My sons marriage lasted on;y 5 years.
She cheated, and he says never again. 

Infidelity seems to be everywhere , divorce to easy, it seems people just
give up when life sets in. If she has a preteen and you do not want kids
how are you going to deal with that. Are you going to change your life
is she going to change hers ? You both have independent live's now. 
I know many very happy individuals who have someone ( companion )
but still have there own space and life. If you two are happy then 
why marriage ?

Live your life and be happy, you have only one.


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## Razor1777

Yes I was married once already. I make almost twice what my partner does. Her child has a father in the picture but he's mostly a deadbeat. I lot of my partner's income since we have been together have gone toward the child's expenses since the father contributes little as well as financial support for her some of her siblings who have addiction issues. So part of me is a bit worried she might bite at the chance to take alimony from me if we were to marry then divorce.


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## Razor1777

Im 41, shes 34. She has teased that she wants to get married but I don't think I want to.


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## Ikaika

I have been married 24 years (well we will make 24 this year). Both of us are in our 50s (me in my late 50s and wife in her mid 50s). We have two sons, 19 and 17. 

For me, marriage was worth it. But, you have to go into marriage with the right state of mind. It really is a contract, a contract with person you will share more with than any other person in your life. Or at least you should be sharing more with your spouse than any other person. My wife knows more about me than my parents ever knew about me. Yes, I hid things from my parents. And, there are those who will tell you that a doctor knows their patients more than their spouse knows them. If that is the case, then this is a problem. To be in this long term, in my opinion, you have to have a level of vulnerability that you have never had with anyone else in your life. I realize in doing this you run the risk of being burned, but then again I also recommend anyone going into this contract take your time going into it. 

During the courtship those love hormones can blind a person. This is why I am not sure marriage is a good contract for the very young because those hormones can completely trump all logic. One need to take the time to look beyond the beauty. You need to look at the person in as many situations as possible. I believe it is important to interact as much as possible with your potential spouse’s family. In my opinion you marry not just the person but often you marry his/her family. 

Every day is not romantic endeavor, but you need to have those romantic moments. No matter what, you need to dig deep and find the time have a date nights. Don’t be mechanical about it, but it needs to happen. And, life does get in the way, find your niche to contribute to the house. If you have kids, be a father and not just a sperm donor. A lot more can be written into this part of marriage and probably requires a separate thread. 

I made a lot mistakes over the last 24 years, but I have made the decision to be better. In some ways, taking care of yourself mentally and physically is as much for you as it is for your spouse. So, don’t just let your mental and physical self go just because you won her/him. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Razor1777

You make a ton of good points. I do love this woman and care about her child although I advised her from the beginning that I would prefer to not hold a significant amount of legal and financial responsibility over the child. Another factor in our relationship has been that her 22 year old brother lived with us for 2 years and we both had to pitch in to support him financially cause he couldn't get his sh*t together. He moved out with his gf now but if something happens to them he may be back. So my concern is that if I marry her I may end up taking care of a whole family and I don't have the financial means to do so.


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## CatholicDad

Marriage is a beautiful gift from God. It never works though when people enter into it with an attitude of "what all can I get out of it?".

You enter into it when you love someone enough to devote your life to them. It probably can't work outside the church.


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## Ikaika

Razor1777 said:


> You make a ton of good points. I do love this woman and care about her child although I advised her from the beginning that I would prefer to not hold a significant amount of legal and financial responsibility over the child. Another factor in our relationship has been that her 22 year old brother lived with us for 2 years and we both had to pitch in to support him financially cause he couldn't get his sh*t together. He moved out with his gf now but if something happens to them he may be back. So my concern is that if I marry her I may end up taking care of a whole family and I don't have the financial means to do so.




You marry her, in a way you marry into her family (that includes her brother). Be careful, be very careful. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## PigglyWiggly

49m/48f married 12 years and together 14. I enjoy marriage and would do it again with her. I do think marriage has a much better chance of working once both partners are over 30.


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## sa58

Since you have added more information I would say 
No. If you marry her problems become your problems.

Deadbeat dad, her sibling's with addiction issues,her brother etc.
Since she has teased you about getting married even though you
have said you do not. Simply put it sounds like you would be a great
catch for her. If like you said she divorces you she will try for money.
My advice now is take it slow very, very slow. Lots of issues already.


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## Rob_1

OP: you made the following statement: "She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me," 

If you don't want kids, what are you doing with this woman? She has a kid. Why would you want to take care of another man's child, when you wouldn't want to do that for a child of your own? This is what you've been doing at whatever level you've doing it, but you are doing it.

What's stopping you from getting into a relationship with a woman that's in tune with you?, One that doesn't want kids, and just want to live like boyfriend & girlfriend. Why are you wasting your time and this woman's time? 

Marriage is hard as it is for any two individuals that are in-tune which each other, just imagine for two individuals that do not want the same things. How do you think that that will go in the long run?


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## DustyDog

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


No. Not because of women. But because of the law's treatment of men in case there is a divorce. I love being in a relationship. I love egalitarianism. Family courts do not believe in egalitarianism.


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## personofinterest

According to RepPill, MGTOW, and other places, marriage is a racket that only benefits them blood-and-soul-sucking-wimmins.

In real life, I know a lot of men who are VERY happy to be married. I know some women who got cut off at the knees by getting married. And yes, I know some men for whom marriage was a nightmare.

Anyone who makes a blanket statement about marriage overall with seeming authoritative knowledge....is an idiot. Because it all depends on the people and the marriage.


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## Rgaines

For some reason I think she may want to have another child even if you don't. I also think that if you are certain you don't want to have a child with her, that you will regret committing to marriage and resent doing it if you do. So what I'm saying is that she is only 34 and you are only 41, if you decide you want to have a child together at some point, get married at that time. If not, why would either of you want the legal entanglement? Especially if I am right about my hunch that she may want another child. Of course it's just a hunch based on age, and the idea that she might realize that she really wouldn't have contributed much to the marriage if she didn't have a child with you. That's my female point of view anyway.


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## Ursula

Razor1777 said:


> Im 41, shes 34. She has teased that she wants to get married but I don't think I want to.


Then I would say that this is something you guys need to sit down and talk about. If she's adamant about getting married and you are adamant about not, then you will need to cut her loose so that she can find someone who wants the same things that she wants.

As for my opinion (as a soon-to-be divorced woman), I would get married again, but this time I would take my time and take 137% sure that it was to the right partner. And, being that I've gone through a divorce already, I would make sure that we were both protected with a prenup.


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## AKA Broken Arrow

Been with my wife for 30 years this August, married for 23. I wouldn't marry someone else if we split but I would marry her again.


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## Ursula

CatholicDad said:


> Marriage is a beautiful gift from God. It never works though when people enter into it with an attitude of "what all can I get out of it?".
> 
> You enter into it when you love someone enough to devote your life to them. *It probably can't work outside the church.*


What do you mean by the bolded?


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## happyhusband0005

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


It's probably totally situational. For your situation I would say no. You said your've had your struggles and she has a pre-teen. Second marriages have a divorce rate of 67%, add a kids from a previous marriage and that divorce rate goes to 75%.


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## oldshirt

Razor1777 said:


> Yes I was married once already. I make almost twice what my partner does. Her child has a father in the picture but he's mostly a deadbeat. I lot of my partner's income since we have been together have gone toward the child's expenses since the father contributes little as well as financial support for her some of her siblings who have addiction issues. So part of me is a bit worried she might bite at the chance to take alimony from me if we were to marry then divorce.


That is a legitimate concern. You would be a fool to not be concerned with that and to not look into all aspects of what a marriage may entail. 

Now that is not to say that if you got married on a Saturday and she filed for divorce the following Tuesday that you would be shelling out all of your income and living on Ramen Noodles under a bridge for life. Each state has it's own schedules and guidelines and a lot of depends on length of marriage and how much each was providing towards the marital home and family etc etc. 

But it is incumbent on you to know the facts and figures and know what each of your rights and responsibilities would be. 

It is a legitimate concern and one worth knowing where you would stand under a variety of potential scenarios.


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## oldshirt

CatholicDad said:


> Marriage is a beautiful gift from God. It never works though when people enter into it with an attitude of "what all can I get out of it?".
> 
> You enter into it when you love someone enough to devote your life to them. It probably can't work outside the church.


Yeah and that is why we have so many people living under complete misery and why we have people being completely exploited and ruined financially and taken to the cleaners legally and financially. 

All because they thought love and religion would be enough to protect them. 

No, people do need to look at it from nuts and bolts and practical terms and what each of their legal and financial rights and responsibilities will be. 

That may not necessarily be the same as "what's in it for me?" but they do need to take a hard look at if it is in their best interests or not. If it is their best interests, they have a right to pursue it and the right to pass on people who do not wish to marry them.

But if it is not in their best interests, then they should have the giblets to stand up to social convention and religious indoctrination and say that it won't work for them.


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## sokillme

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


Really depends on who you marry.


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## MovingForward

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


Depends on many factors.

Some woman need it as a sign of commitment and will eventually terminate the relationship if commitment is not shown.
How much difference in income/asset levels? In 30-50's I believe a prenup should be signed by both parties
How much do you like spending time with your girlfriend, can you really see a future?


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## I shouldnthave

CatholicDad said:


> It never works though when people enter into it with an attitude of "what all can I get out of it?".


While this part I agree with, 



CatholicDad said:


> It probably can't work outside the church.


This part I disagree with, the numbers disagree as well. 

Social research has shown that those with no religious affiliation have divorce rates equal to, or less than those who report being religious. Even this study conducted by a faith based social research group came to a similar conclusion – Divorce rates amount atheist were slightly less the same as those with strong religious affiliation:

https://www.barna.com/research/new-marriage-and-divorce-statistics-released/

Have Been Divorced


All adults 33% 

Evangelical Christians	*26%* 
Non-evangelical born again Christians *33%* 
Notional Christians	*33%* 
Associated with non Christian faith	*38%	*
Atheist or agnostic *30%*


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## oldshirt

Rob_1 said:


> OP: you made the following statement: "She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me,"
> 
> If you don't want kids, what are you doing with this woman? She has a kid. Why would you want to take care of another man's child, when you wouldn't want to do that for a child of your own? This is what you've been doing at whatever level you've doing it, but you are doing it.
> 
> What's stopping you from getting into a relationship with a woman that's in tune with you?, One that doesn't want kids, and just want to live like boyfriend & girlfriend. Why are you wasting your time and this woman's time?
> 
> Marriage is hard as it is for any two individuals that are in-tune which each other, just imagine for two individuals that do not want the same things. How do you think that that will go in the long run?


These are fair questions. 

However from my own perspective, I am 54 with two teens. 

If I were to get divorced or widowed, I would not want to have any more kids ....and I am certainly not going to get my plumbing reconnected for more kids.

But even so, that does not mean that I would not date or become involved with a woman that had minor children if we were otherwise compatible. 

If a woman wanted more kids, she would not date me as a 54 year old man that has had his plumbing disconnected and is open about not wanting more kids. 

But if said woman was also not wanting more kids (which many divorced women with children do not) then her having kids would not be a deal breaker for me. 

If she is wanting more kids, then they may not be compatible. But I do not think that someone who does not want kids should always seek out childless partners by default. 

Once you start getting into your 40s and beyond, there are a few childless women out there, but not that many. If you are going to limit yourself to only childless women, it is going to be pretty slim pickens out there.


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## Razor1777

Agreed. Finding a childless woman with her stuff together is quite difficult. My partner is pretty adamant about not wanting more kids. I am getting a vasectomy in October anyway in case there is an accident.


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## Ynot

57 year old man divorced after a 24 year marriage. Two adult kids who are completely and totally self sufficient and require nothing from me to survive. At this point in my life I can see absolutely no reason what so ever to get married again. When I was younger and wanted a family it was a choice I made. Having said that, marriage is really nothing more than a legal construct to ensure that any children are cared for if the parents decide to part company. Since children are not involved, nor desired at this point there is no reason to invite the state (or the church) into my private affairs.


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## Ynot

jorgegene said:


> marriage has many benefits.
> 
> 1. relationship security. makes it hard to just pack your bags and leave, it entails a prolonged legal process which
> most people don't want to go through. more positively, you are at least at the time committing for life.


That is the LAST thing I would want in a marriage or any relationship - someone just sticking around because it is too difficult to move on. No thanks.


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## Bananapeel

If you want to get married just get a prenup if you make more money than she does, and that should protect your assets if you write it properly. In my opinion the purpose of marriage is to have a family where you are jointly raising kids together. Outside of that it is just a legal contract that benefits the low earner and hinders the high earner, if the marriage were to fail. But since you don't want to get married then there is really no point in even having this discussion because you shouldn't have to compromise on that big of an issue.


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## WasDecimated

For me, absolutely Not. 

I'm 55. I’ve been married twice, divorced twice. Both wives turned out to be cheaters and liars. I was always a loving, devoted, hardworking husband…in all respects. In retrospect, I put way too much into my marriages, and got little in return. I will never invest to that level again except in myself, and my children. Both XWW’s walked away with bags of money and alimony to ride the carousel. All they had to do was lie and screw someone else to get it. 

Honestly, I never thought I would be divorced once, let alone twice. I actually loved being married. That was before the messed up value system of modern women opened my eyes. My parents have been married for over 50 years. I always wanted the same in life. It seems like more and more women these days live in a shallow selfie taking, Facebook posting, narcissistic world where taking is the priority and giving is nonexistent. They are always on the lookout for something better whether it be looks, money, or social status. They have unrealistic expectations of marriage. I personally know over a dozen good men who have been screwed over by cheating wives and our no fault legal system. No thanks. That road is now closed. I will never again travel down it.

Through both marriages, I was constantly putting my wives before myself, making sure they felt appreciated, loved, respected and cherished. All of that focus and energy being expended just to be betrayed in the end. Now I put myself first, and I am a lot better off. I am not alone. The MGTOW movement is growing. More and more men are realizing marriage is a bad deal for them. They are choosing to do their own thing without potential repercussions of matrimony and divorce. Some are even in full on Monk mode. I realize that all women are not the cause of this movement but enough of them have been wrecking balls in the lives of men that the smart ones are no longer interested…including me. They’ve grow up seeing their fathers, uncles and friends getting screwed by marriage just like women have grown up seeing their moms, aunts and friends benefitting from divorce. As a society, we are slowly killing marriage as an institution. Women, because they are making it a bad deal for men and men because they are wising up. Where did all the good men go? Sorry girls, your kind scared them away.

The bottom line is, I have everything I need. What do I need a marriage for? I earn my own money, do my own cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, yard work…etc. (I did all these things when I was married anyway). I have plenty of friends to talk to, go places and do things with and I don’t have to ask permission, beg forgiveness or shower them with gifts and attention. What do they have to offer? Aside from a tax exemption, what is the benefit to being married…sex? That tapers off with in a couple years anyway. And besides, women nowadays seem to give that away for free. They don’t require a commitment anymore.


No thanks, I'm not interested.


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## wilson

Marriage is not the same as living together. Marriage is a more familial-type relationship. Typically, you will view your spouse as a closer tie to yourself--almost as an extension of you. It's the same way how you might think of your relationship with your close relatives.

In some sense it is an arbitrary line you cross when you sign that paper, but it can create a deeper emotional bond. You are committing to be with that person forever. Of course, that doesn't always work out, but you are letting yourself and your partner know that is your intentions. As long as you are just BF-GF, there's less long-term emotional security and you won't be as comfortable in the relationship.

Everyone should get married to experience what it's like. However, you can be smart about it so that if it doesn't work out, it's not a lifetime mistake. The common concern is money, so do a prenup if you have a lot more assets than your partner. Then during the marriage, make sure your partner maintains employment at an equitable level to you. If your spouse quits their job to stay at home, you have to realize at that moment you will be on the hook for alimony should things break up. 

Get married because you want to be with someone for the rest of your life in the same way you want to have a relationship with your family all your life. Understand there will be ups and downs and you'll still maintain your relationship. But if you're just looking for someone to split rent and have sex with, staying BF-GF is the way to go.


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## Vinnydee

It all depends on who you marry and how you structure it. I m very happily married for 46 years. We have moved 13 times and owned 9 homes. We never had kids so we had lots of money to enjoy life and not worry about paying any bills. We are best friends and have always considered the needs and wants of each other when making any decision that affects the other. I cannot recall any time where we were unable to reach a compromise. We cannot imagine life without each other.

We also gave each other their own space. Too much time together is no good. We share very few of the same interests so we seek out our own friends into what we are into. We make sure that we have sex regularly as that produces the hormone Oxytocin which is what emotionally bonds a couple together as well as a mother to her child. A great marriage is born of great communication. We do not let things fester. If something is bothering one of us, we discuss it. We also place our marriage and each other above all else. 

You need to marry someone who is sexually compatible with you but also sexually adventurous so that when you get into sexual fetishes later on or marital sex gets boring and routine, you have a spouse willing to try new things. Don't settle for someone just because they give you regular sex. You also need to marry for more than love. As the relationship develops the nature of love changes as does the passion. The initial courtship love wears off a few years after you marriage. That is the type of love that makes you want to spend all of your time together and blinds you to the faults of each other. When that fades you are left with a decision as to whether you want to spend the rest of your life with your spouse and if so, work on developing a more mature marriage that accepts each other for who they are with no more blinders on.

Even the choice of friends affect your marriage. There drama can drag you into it. You want friends who can uplift you and not keep you down. Also money is a major issue in a marriage. Live within your means so that there is no reason to fight over money or lack of it. Kids also change the marriage dynamic greatly. All of a sudden the child becomes the focus of your attention and not each other. How to raise them opens up many areas for disagreement and fighting. Never take each other for granted. Make each other feel like they did when you were courting. Make each other feel desired and attractive. Find time to go on dates if even once a month. Many women cheat because their husbands take them for granted. Sex is guaranteed so no reason to court them anymore. Women sometimes reduce the frequency of sex or are not adventurous in bed. Keep it exciting and do not let society's structure of marriage, no longer workable these days as witnessed by the ever increasing divorce rate, box you in. Do what works for you.

My wife and I lived a non traditional marriage up till 8 years ago. We had no kids so that gave us a lot more freedom than most married people. We also were not 100% monogamous. We were more monogamish. Sex with others was not prohibited as long as it was the exception and not the rule. However, we only played with others as a couple in threesomes, foursomes and larger groups in soft swinging. The only we liked enough to do it again were FFM threesomes, My wife discovered that she is bi as is her best friend so we had a threesome that lasted 30 years. Our girlfriend lived with us on and off even after she got married. We learned that lots of couples are living non traditional marriages and making it work. The fact that I was having sex with two women separately and together for 30 years made our sex life interesting and fun. However we have long married friends who do just fine with monogamy, Not saying one is better than the other but rather there is more than one way to live your marriage if monogamy does not work out for you.

I retire in two weeks and we have eased into it. We do not spend all our time together. My wife goes out with her friends and I do my thing too. We spend most evenings together and go out with mutual friends sometimes. We have had a great life because we bent life to our needs rather than trying to live the marriage we were taught about and who fails more times than succeeds. To us marriage is not about ownership of each other's sexual pleasure or body. It is about knowing that you will share your life with each other no matter what, My wife and I both love our girlfriend but our love comes first. Although we enjoy sex in a threesome, we also make time for quality time to make love one on one. I have done what most men say cannot be done. I had my cake and ate it too as did my wife. I would not change a thing in my marriage since it has worked so well for us.

So yew, marriage is worth it if you make it worth it. If you are going to follow the marriage script handed to you, your odds are 53% that you will divorce. I do not understand why people enter into something that fails more than succeeds and yet they do. That is what I mean about marrying strictly out of love. Love blinds you to the odds even better than Las Vegas Casinos do.


----------



## Yeswecan

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


Married to my W for 24 years. We had our struggles. Our kids are grown and we feel like a new lease on life together as we are not tied down any longer. We are happily married and talk of our future together with travel and such. I would not have it any other way as we are on the same page.


----------



## I shouldnthave

wilson said:


> Marriage is not the same as living together. Marriage is a more familial-type relationship. Typically, you will view your spouse as a closer tie to yourself--almost as an extension of you. It's the same way how you might think of your relationship with your close relatives.
> 
> In some sense it is an arbitrary line you cross when you sign that paper, but it can create a deeper emotional bond.


This entirely depends on the individual couple. I can tell you, as someone who cohabited for 14 years before getting married, it didn't change our emotional bond, it didn't change our commitment, those things were already there. We had already committed to each other that we would be together until our golden years. 

We didn't need a certificate from the government to make that any more real.

I understand that for some people, "making it official" changes them, but for us that was not the case. Heck, 6 months after we met we were living together and had a joint checking account - talk about commitment! 



wilson said:


> Get married because you want to be with someone for the rest of your life in the same way you want to have a relationship with your family all your life. Understand there will be ups and downs and you'll still maintain your relationship. But if you're just looking for someone to split rent and have sex with, staying BF-GF is the way to go.


This part I 100% agree with. Marriage is about the long haul, thick and thin.


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## Young at Heart

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd,
> 
> 
> ....... I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; *I have no kids and don't want any*. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting *married again.* But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. * Thoughts?*


As David Schnarch (Passionate Marriage and other books) says, Marriage is the hardest thing that two people can do, if it is done right. Marriage is a stressful people growing (emotional, mental, ethical, cultural, etc.) machine. It takes two people who are at different stages emotionally and developmentally, and welds them through stress, trials, challenges, etc. into a single pair bonded unit called a family or marriage.

Since you and your gf have been married before you should both be aware of some of that. Your gf having a pre-teen (a time of hormonal driven rebellion to allow them to leave the nest) will have a lot of stress in her life and if you marry it will become some of your stress. Children are a big benefit and reason for marriage. If you don't want any children, then I can understand part of your question.

I am 69 and have been married to the same woman for 46+ years, known her for 50 years. Two responsible adult children and two grandchildren along with my wife are an incredible blessing and source of happiness.

Married couples tend to have more sex, tend to live longer, tend to be more socially engaged, and better off financially than others. 

Do you want to be part of the wedding party when your gf's child get's married? Do you want to be there paying for part of the wedding? How special is this child to you? Do you envision dying in the arms of your gf when you get really old? Would you want to be there to support your gf, if she has to face say cancer and medical treatments? Could you see her supporting you should something like that happen?

Do you want to retire with her and spend the rest of your life with her?

Depending on how you answer those questions, you may or may not want to marry your gf.

I have found marriage very worthwhile.

Good luck


----------



## Lostinthought61

Once only once, after that nope- marriage is not worth it.....i tell every guy i know that is getting married....today you own 100% of everything after you get married, like you new car driven off the show room floor you lose more and more until you are lucky if you get to keep 50%...after that you have to make up that loss...why the hell would you want to lose it again.


----------



## SpinyNorman

CatholicDad said:


> Marriage is a beautiful gift from God. It never works though when people enter into it with an attitude of "what all can I get out of it?".


This is a false dichotomy. You can be an atheist and be interested in contributing to your marriage.


> You enter into it when you love someone enough to devote your life to them. It probably can't work outside the church.


Are you really saying there are no successful marriages outside a particular faith/set of faiths?


----------



## SpinyNorman

oldshirt said:


> Yeah and that is why we have so many people living under complete misery and why we have people being completely exploited and ruined financially and taken to the cleaners legally and financially.
> 
> All because they thought love and religion would be enough to protect them.
> 
> No, people do need to look at it from nuts and bolts and practical terms and what each of their legal and financial rights and responsibilities will be.
> 
> That may not necessarily be the same as "what's in it for me?" but they do need to take a hard look at if it is in their best interests or not. If it is their best interests, they have a right to pursue it and the right to pass on people who do not wish to marry them.
> 
> But if it is not in their best interests, then they should have the giblets to stand up to social convention and religious indoctrination and say that it won't work for them.


Yes, this.

I will only add that it can be a self-adjusting institution- if a lot of women(or men) stay out of it b/c they don't like some aspect of it, then men(or women) have an incentive to change that aspect.

Here, aspect could mean a legal part or just a social convention most people observe.


----------



## Steve2.0

The question might differ depending on where you come from. In some countries the man is roasted over coals if the marriage goes south and he is required to loose everything he has, and everything he might earn in the future for his ex-wife. If you come from one of these places I would say that marriage is not worth it


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## Married but Happy

Steve2.0 said:


> The question might differ depending on where you come from. In some countries the man is roasted over coals if the marriage goes south and he is required to loose everything he has, and everything he might earn in the future for his ex-wife. If you come from one of these places I would say that marriage is not worth it


Like Canada and the US? Or did you mean somewhere else?


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## I shouldnthave

Razor1777 said:


> She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


One thing I want to point out... there is a commitment greater than marriage - that is having a child with someone. 

And given the way biology works, SHE controls fertility - unless perhaps you have had a vasectomy? 

Someone who does not want kids ever, especially a man, has to take great measures to protect themselves. Personally I think this is a much bigger deal than financial loss, and its not something a pre-nup can protect you from. 

If you can't trust her enough to marry her, I would be very wary of trusting her not to become pregnant.


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## Betrayedone

........Not only no, but **** NO!


----------



## Betrayedone

wasdecimated said:


> for me, absolutely not.
> 
> I'm 55. I’ve been married twice, divorced twice. Both wives turned out to be cheaters and liars. I was always a loving, devoted, hardworking husband…in all respects. In retrospect, i put way too much into my marriages, and got little in return. I will never invest to that level again except in myself, and my children. Both xww’s walked away with bags of money and alimony to ride the carousel. All they had to do was lie and screw someone else to get it.
> 
> Honestly, i never thought i would be divorced once, let alone twice. I actually loved being married. That was before the messed up value system of modern women opened my eyes. My parents have been married for over 50 years. I always wanted the same in life. It seems like more and more women these days live in a shallow selfie taking, facebook posting, narcissistic world where taking is the priority and giving is nonexistent. They are always on the lookout for something better whether it be looks, money, or social status. They have unrealistic expectations of marriage. I personally know over a dozen good men who have been screwed over by cheating wives and our no fault legal system. No thanks. That road is now closed. I will never again travel down it.
> 
> Through both marriages, i was constantly putting my wives before myself, making sure they felt appreciated, loved, respected and cherished. All of that focus and energy being expended just to be betrayed in the end. Now i put myself first, and i am a lot better off. I am not alone. The mgtow movement is growing. More and more men are realizing marriage is a bad deal for them. They are choosing to do their own thing without potential repercussions of matrimony and divorce. Some are even in full on monk mode. I realize that all women are not the cause of this movement but enough of them have been wrecking balls in the lives of men that the smart ones are no longer interested…including me. They’ve grow up seeing their fathers, uncles and friends getting screwed by marriage just like women have grown up seeing their moms, aunts and friends benefitting from divorce. As a society, we are slowly killing marriage as an institution. Women, because they are making it a bad deal for men and men because they are wising up. Where did all the good men go? Sorry girls, your kind scared them away.
> 
> The bottom line is, i have everything i need. What do i need a marriage for? I earn my own money, do my own cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, yard work…etc. (i did all these things when i was married anyway). I have plenty of friends to talk to, go places and do things with and i don’t have to ask permission, beg forgiveness or shower them with gifts and attention. What do they have to offer? Aside from a tax exemption, what is the benefit to being married…sex? That tapers off with in a couple years anyway. And besides, women nowadays seem to give that away for free. They don’t require a commitment anymore.
> 
> 
> No thanks, i'm not interested.


i nominate this post as the smartest observation i have ever read in my entire life!


----------



## I shouldnthave

notmyrealname4 said:


> LOL, tell that to my biological father, wherever he may be----who never paid any child support [in a different country, long boring story].
> 
> People have kids together all the time with zilch amount of commitment. That's where you get the term "baby daddy".


Oh sure, people do morally corrupt things all the time. In my book at least, having a child is a way bigger commitment than marriage. There is no undoing that. There is no divorce court to make the fact that you have brought a new life into the world go away. 

Having a child, or PREVENTING having a child should be taken very seriously, thought about more and planned for more than marriage. Marriage? Eh, its just a contract. Having kids? That is some serious stuff. 

And thats why as a woman who does not want kids, I take precautions, but in the end, *I* control my fertility, a man doesn't have a choice beyond vasectomy, or hoping those condoms always work. 

Too many men do not take it seriously, do not view sex as more risky than getting married, and leave fertility up to the woman - who are left with "baby daddys" because they had children with men who had no intention of being a father. 

Thats why I say to the OP, its important to think about marriage, but its even more important to be protecting the control over his fertility. Because if he gets her pregnant, its going to be all up to her.


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## TheBohannons

Whatever the answers one has today, may not be the same answer tomorrow. Wen the time comes, you will know.

I have an idea of what tomorrow will bring, but already we have been thrown a "curve".


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## BURNT KEP

No it’s not.


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## CatholicDad

Betrayedone said:


> wasdecimated said:
> 
> 
> 
> for me, absolutely not.
> 
> I'm 55. I’ve been married twice, divorced twice. Both wives turned out to be cheaters and liars. I was always a loving, devoted, hardworking husband…in all respects. In retrospect, i put way too much into my marriages, and got little in return. I will never invest to that level again except in myself, and my children. Both xww’s walked away with bags of money and alimony to ride the carousel. All they had to do was lie and screw someone else to get it.
> 
> Honestly, i never thought i would be divorced once, let alone twice. I actually loved being married. That was before the messed up value system of modern women opened my eyes. My parents have been married for over 50 years. I always wanted the same in life. It seems like more and more women these days live in a shallow selfie taking, facebook posting, narcissistic world where taking is the priority and giving is nonexistent. They are always on the lookout for something better whether it be looks, money, or social status. They have unrealistic expectations of marriage. I personally know over a dozen good men who have been screwed over by cheating wives and our no fault legal system. No thanks. That road is now closed. I will never again travel down it.
> 
> Through both marriages, i was constantly putting my wives before myself, making sure they felt appreciated, loved, respected and cherished. All of that focus and energy being expended just to be betrayed in the end. Now i put myself first, and i am a lot better off. I am not alone. The mgtow movement is growing. More and more men are realizing marriage is a bad deal for them. They are choosing to do their own thing without potential repercussions of matrimony and divorce. Some are even in full on monk mode. I realize that all women are not the cause of this movement but enough of them have been wrecking balls in the lives of men that the smart ones are no longer interested…including me. They’ve grow up seeing their fathers, uncles and friends getting screwed by marriage just like women have grown up seeing their moms, aunts and friends benefitting from divorce. As a society, we are slowly killing marriage as an institution. Women, because they are making it a bad deal for men and men because they are wising up. Where did all the good men go? Sorry girls, your kind scared them away.
> 
> The bottom line is, i have everything i need. What do i need a marriage for? I earn my own money, do my own cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, yard work…etc. (i did all these things when i was married anyway). I have plenty of friends to talk to, go places and do things with and i don’t have to ask permission, beg forgiveness or shower them with gifts and attention. What do they have to offer? Aside from a tax exemption, what is the benefit to being married…sex? That tapers off with in a couple years anyway. And besides, women nowadays seem to give that away for free. They don’t require a commitment anymore.
> 
> 
> No thanks, i'm not interested.
> 
> 
> 
> i nominate this post as the smartest observation i have ever read in my entire life!
Click to expand...

Our culture is pretty dead because no believes in God, judgement, heaven, and hell. I suspect your parents believe it. The ex wives do not regardless of their religious affiliations. It is pretty insane to marry someone who doesn't believe in these four things.


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## wilson

The negative posts should be taken with a grain of salt. Because of the nature of this board, it's like going to an AA meeting and asking if alcohol is okay to drink. Since many people came here because of problems in their marriage, the answers likely reflect that bias.


----------



## Betrayedone

CatholicDad said:


> Our culture is pretty dead because no believes in God, judgement, heaven, and hell. I suspect your parents believe it. The ex wives do not regardless of their religious affiliations. It is pretty insane to marry someone who doesn't believe in these four things.


I do believe in those things......I just don't see the connection to marriage. My ex dismissed every one of those topics without so much as an explanation when she left me.


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## Married but Happy

wilson said:


> The negative posts should be taken with a grain of salt. Because of the nature of this board, it's like going to an AA meeting and asking if alcohol is okay to drink. Since many people came here because of problems in their marriage, the answers likely reflect that bias.


The positive posts should be taken with a grain of salt. Most of those who haven't yet had any problems with marriage, probably will eventually. A positive attitude may be due to ignorance and inexperience!


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## Cletus

CatholicDad said:


> It probably can't work outside the church.


You're such an *******.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Cletus

34 years later, the answer is still yes.

My 26 year old son just got married a year ago. They will never have children, but seem to have found a reason to make a lifelong commitment to each other, and as two unrepentent atheists to boot.

But it doesn't matter what I think, does it? Who wants a spouse who popped the question only because of the answers he got on an open forum?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## wilson

Married but Happy said:


> The positive posts should be taken with a grain of salt. Most of those who haven't yet had any problems with marriage, probably will eventually. A positive attitude may be due to ignorance and inexperience!


But can't the same be true of every worthwhile experience? You could say... Don't have kids because they will let you down one day. Or ... Don't have a dog because they are going to die one day. Don't get a job because you'll get laid off one day....

It's 100% absolutely true that every marriage will have problems. That's just the nature of human relationships. But that doesn't mean that there aren't worthwhile aspects to marriage as well. Someone reading this thread (or this board in general), may decide to never marry because they're hearing the worst aspects of it. Like I said before, that'd be like asking alcoholics if you should try alcohol. 

Sometimes in the thread of a BS they are so down on marriage that they tell their children not to marry. They tout the benefits of just dating, as they enjoy their 3-month relationship with a new GF. But they seem to forget that those kids and the life they had was a product of the marriage. If that BS had not gotten married in the first place, how different would his life be? If they stayed BF-GF, would he have had 3 kids with her and raised them to college age in a happy home? Or would she have decided she wanted marriage and left him before any of that? And even if they just stayed BF-GF, how does that stop her from cheating in the first place?


----------



## tech-novelist

CatholicDad said:


> Our culture is pretty dead because no believes in God, judgement, heaven, and hell. I suspect your parents believe it. The ex wives do not regardless of their religious affiliations. It is pretty insane to marry someone who doesn't believe in these four things.


Anyone I would marry would have to believe in the Golden Rule... for everyone, all the time.


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## Married but Happy

wilson said:


> But can't the same be true of every worthwhile experience?


Indeed, you are correct. However, I really don't see any compelling reasons to marry, since everything you can achieve with marriage can be achieved without it (barring some very specific financial and legal benefits that don't apply to every married couple). A committed non-marital relationship can be every bit as worthwhile and lasting as marriage, without the downside risks specific to marriage.

BTW, I am very happy with my marriage - this time. But, we don't need to be married to have the same experience, and in fact lived together for many years before we married (for one of those specific financial and legal benefits). And we'll divorce - and remain together - should it become financially or legally advantageous. However, I am cognizant of the risks of being married, and was very careful before proceeding with it the second time.


----------



## CatholicDad

Cletus said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> It probably can't work outside the church.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such an *******.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

And you're an apostate.

What's so wrong with believing in the Church or in God for that matter??? People get so offended nowadays at the mention of it..... I don't get it. Marriage is more than an agreement or legal contract... It is a gift from God.

I look forward to the seething and angry replies! Atheists are always so open minded.


----------



## Cletus

CatholicDad said:


> You enter into it when you love someone enough to devote your life to them. It probably can't work outside the church.





CatholicDad said:


> And you're an apostate.
> 
> What's so wrong with believing in the Church or in God for that matter??? People get so offended nowadays at the mention of it..... I don't get it. Marriage is more than an agreement or legal contract... It is a gift from God.
> 
> I look forward to the seething and angry replies! Atheists are always so open minded.


When you find the part in this thread where I denigrated belief in the church, or was offended at the mention of it, then by all means point that out.

Meanwhile, I'll just go home and tell my wife of 3 1/2 decades that it's all off - CatholicDad said so. Our continued successful marriage outside of the church has been exposed for the sham that it clearly is.


----------



## I shouldnthave

CatholicDad said:


> [Marriage]
> It probably can't work outside the church.





CatholicDad said:


> What's so wrong with believing in the Church or in God for that matter??? People get so offended nowadays at the mention of it..... I don't get it. Marriage is more than an agreement or legal contract... It is a gift from God.
> 
> I look forward to the seething and angry replies! Atheists are always so open minded.


The offense is in your assumption that those who do not follow the same religion as yours, will have failed marriages. 

For YOU it is a gift from god, I understand that is what YOU believe - and others? Others believe different things, and that doesn't mean that you are right, and they are wrong, or they are right and you are wrong. 

The the numbers - the numbers show believing in your god, and being a member of your church does not result in less divorce than people that do not believe in a god at all. 

People get offended when a personal belief is pushed upon them as a fact. 

For YOU the church and religion are important for a successful marriage, for many others, they are able to have successful marriages without involving those things.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

There are pros that are financial: Shared home, shared furniture, shared groceries, shared incomes. Plus tax incentives. These are ONLY a pro IF your spouse is responsible financially.

There are also MANY cons that are financial: Costs of the Ring, Wedding, Divorcing and then giving your lower earning spouse half your income, retirement and property... Obviously the CONS are far more egregious if you are the higher earner. Its simply put a bad financial decision. But the heart and mind are often aligned differently...

I've learned that if you find someone that has never been married, they will want to get married. Ignorance is bliss. But if they have already did the dance and got burned, they might be happy to just cohabitate or live separately in a committed relationship. There are also some people that are marriage material and others that are terrible marriage material. It may be hard to weed those out until after the fact, especially if you are young and naive, but you can kind of compare and contrast the good bets from the bad.


----------



## I shouldnthave

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I've learned that if you find someone that has never been married, they will want to get married. .


But ahh.... all married people hadn't ever been married.... until they got married 



UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> There are pros that are financial: Shared home, shared furniture, shared groceries, shared incomes.


And a couple can have all of these benefits without getting married as well. 

I don't think marriage sounds right for the OP - and he already said he didn't want to. 

I come from a unique perspective. My husband and I moved into together, and co-mingled all of our income and expenses 6 months after we met. We were young, and broke and it made sense. 

We continued to live just like a married couple for the next 14 years. Eventually we started using husband and wife pronouns in various situations because it made sense - he was a lot more than "my boy friend" and in English at least, we do not have a good word for "this is my very serious boy friend which I have not entered into a legal contract with". 

For us, marriage didn't change things. There were a number of legal reasons that it made sense. Insurance, inheritance, powers in medical emergencies, powers in contracts etc are much different for a married couple than they are for an unmarried one. 

In short, it became increasing difficult to live like a married couple, without being recognized as one by the government, so we got legally married.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

I shouldnthave said:


> But ahh.... all married people hadn't ever been married.... until they got married


Point is, marriage is nothing short of terrifying after getting divorced. 

But if you have never had the bitter taste and especially if your idea is based on watching your parents who celebrate their 30th , 40th, 50th anniversary...it may seem like a good idea. Lock up your mate and pop out kids. Afterall, divorce only happens to those other people. Little do you know you are flipping a coin these days.

Thats what happened to me and despite my vociferous cries of NEVER AGAIN!, here I am back staring at the same stupidity not even 2 years later. Someone should take a crowbar to my skull! I have to say in my defense the bet looks a WHOLE LOT better than the first time around, but still its terrifying!


----------



## I shouldnthave

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Point is, marriage is nothing short of terrifying after getting divorced.
> 
> But if you have never had the bitter taste and especially if your idea is based on watching your parents who celebrate their 30th , 40th, 50th anniversary...it may seem like a good idea. Lock up your mate and pop out kids. Afterall, divorce only happens to those other people. Little do you know you are flipping a coin these days.


Its just hard to generalize this stuff. If everyone that got divorced was terrified of ever marrying again, we wouldn't see so many second marriages. 

My parents divorced, and my dad remarried. They have been very happily married for 30 years now. The joy their relationship brings them just radiates. 

And some people divorce, and never marry again, others are on their 5th or more marriage. 

In my immediate family, divorce is not as rampant as the population at large, so perhaps that skews my view. My brother has been with his wife for 25+, my sister with her husband 20+, I have been with my husband 16+ (I am the baby of the family). 

My husbands parents were married till death, and while it is a second marriage, my dad's is a lovely model.

And you are right, marriage simply is not for everyone, nor should it be desired by everyone.


----------



## Razor1777

I should point out that my partner is not the best with money. She doesn't earn much which I am fine with. But she tends to live above her means. Shes makes $45K (we live in Canada so that is more like $32K USD) but in the past has spend $2000 for a guitar, $1000 for a couple tattoos, $800 for her kid's bday last year, etc. In addition to consistently giving money to siblings when they spend through it all after a night at the bar. To her "it's just money." No, money isn't everything to me but I have no desire to skip a mortgage payment one month because brother can't put gas in his car cause he spend $200 at the bar last night and another $100 on weed.

THAT is my biggest concern of an otherwise wonderful, caring and loving person.


----------



## CatholicDad

I shouldnthave said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Marriage]
> It probably can't work outside the church.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's so wrong with believing in the Church or in God for that matter??? People get so offended nowadays at the mention of it..... I don't get it. Marriage is more than an agreement or legal contract... It is a gift from God.
> 
> I look forward to the seething and angry replies! Atheists are always so open minded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The offense is in your assumption that those who do not follow the same religion as yours, will have failed marriages.
> 
> For YOU it is a gift from god, I understand that is what YOU believe - and others? Others believe different things, and that doesn't mean that you are right, and they are wrong, or they are right and you are wrong.
> 
> The the numbers - the numbers show believing in your god, and being a member of your church does not result in less divorce than people that do not believe in a god at all.
> 
> People get offended when a personal belief is pushed upon them as a fact.
> 
> For YOU the church and religion are important for a successful marriage, for many others, they are able to have successful marriages without involving those things.
Click to expand...

It's equally offensive when someone points to "the numbers" as fact. Especially a survey of less than 4,000 of the 2.7 billion persons on the planet. I'm sure many claim religious affiliation despite their hardened hearts and clouded eyesight.

I think it's perfectly fair that I share my opinion that I don't think marriage works outside the church. Said more exactly, marriage outside the church is more likely to fail than one that is not... And certainly, a marriage blessed by God will be happier, and perhaps more sacrificial. God does love to have his disciples take up their cross!

I'm sure there are examples of blissful atheist marriages. Perhaps in His mercy God grants at least worldly happiness to these lost sheep.


----------



## Married but Happy

Superstition and belief in fictitious entities may work in mysterious ways, for good or bad. Marriage based on a shared delusion can work just as well as one that is based in reality.


----------



## personofinterest

Married but Happy said:


> Superstition and belief in fictitious entities may work in mysterious ways, for good or bad. Marriage based on a shared delusion can work just as well as one that is based in reality.


This kind of pompous insult says a lot about you.


----------



## Married but Happy

personofinterest said:


> This kind of pompous insult says a lot about you.


Yes, thank you for your superfluous comment. I generally respect people who show respect for others, but not necessarily their beliefs. Of course, there are people I don't respect for various reasons either. You're among that select group. Sorry if you feel insulted. Wait! I don't care! I'm too pompous to care. 0


----------



## Rob_1

Yeah.. the religious nuts are out the woodwork with their self-righteous, matter of fact statements about everything is oK if it is sanctified by their god. We'll let me sanctify and tell you: THERE IS NOT GOD. Can't you get it through your brain washed brain. 

In this world there's millions and millions of people that do not believe in a god; nonetheless, they have a happy and successful marriage. Do cut the crap and stop invoking a God for everything.


----------



## personofinterest

Rob_1 said:


> Yeah.. the religious nuts are out the woodwork with their self-righteous, matter of fact statements about everything is oK if it is sanctified by their god. We'll let me sanctify and tell you: THERE IS NOT GOD. Can't you get it through your brain washed brain.
> 
> In this world there's millions and millions of people that do not believe in a god; nonetheless, they have a happy and successful marriage. Do cut the crap and stop invoking a God for everything.


I didnt say anything about God. I know plenty of atheists with happy, faithful marriages.

I also know an increasing number of *******s.


----------



## CatholicDad

Rob_1 said:


> Yeah.. the religious nuts are out the woodwork with their self-righteous, matter of fact statements about everything is oK if it is sanctified by their god. We'll let me sanctify and tell you: THERE IS NOT GOD. Can't you get it through your brain washed brain.
> 
> In this world there's millions and millions of people that do not believe in a god; nonetheless, they have a happy and successful marriage. Do cut the crap and stop invoking a God for everything.


I guess with your ability to sanctify you can deem marriages as happy and successful with your magic powers.... Sensing millions and millions. Tell us again who is self righteous and brainwashed?


----------



## Rob_1

@personofinterest: I wasn't referring about your post, but if you feel it includes you, well, feel free to consider me as part of the *******s your referring to. And oh by the way Thanks.

As for the OP question: if what the OP is saying is true, then I think, that the OP is old enough to compute if all the red flags he is alluding to are a deal breaker to him; or if he is able to live with a woman that has all the baggage she's bringing in the relationship. If he does, I guess he can marry her, but based in what he's posting about her I wouldn't.


----------



## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> I think it's perfectly fair that I share my opinion that I don't think marriage works outside the church. Said more exactly, marriage outside the church is more likely to fail than one that is not... And certainly, a marriage blessed by God will be happier, and perhaps more sacrificial. God does love to have his disciples take up their cross!


My first marriage occured in a Catholic Church, where I married a still practising Catholic woman, who was also my first sexual partner. Who was also a member of a Catholic Youth Group, that even went to a Catholic High School. Plus before getting married we went through the whole box and dice of doing the pre-marriage counselling as offered by the church and all the rest. I even used to go to church with her and her family as well.

Yet despite the blessing of your god, our marriage wasn't happier for it, in fact it kind of sucked. Especially the part where I came back form an Army training course to have my ex-wife guiltily confess (it's a Catholic thing) her egregious sexual betrayal with another man (who was also Catholic), at a party because she couldn't help herself. All while I was away working my guts out, while she was at home playing SAHM as we were close to our first wedding anniversary.

So our marriage failed in the face of your wonderful churches blessing, because there was no way I was going to remain married to a cheating *****. Even if she believed in a Catholic god, had faith in Jesus and asked for forgiveness for her sins (repeatedly).

Now to be fair, my ex-wife isn't all evil or anything and there are plenty of good memories as well. Yet the blessing of your god and your church, evidently wasn't enough to make my marriage happier. That said who knows maybe it might have been different if her first language wasn't French.

On the other hand my second go round has to date been a splendid experience with a woman who is an atheist and whose first language is Italian. That said she is an ex-Catholic woman, being raised Catholic including exclusively going to Catholic schools as well. So there is that black mark against her moral integrity to be mindful of (to rib her with).

So thus far to date, through 22 years of being together as wanton and lustful sexual animals throughout our time together. My wife and I have enjoyed a splendid 19+ year marriage, with a terrific life, great experiences. Which has also seen us support each other through tremendous challenges through my almost dying 18 years ago. Plus the time when both of us were almost killed together. Close to 22 years ago when she was seriously injured, with others who were critically injured and permanently disabled.

We have also been able to have two children together (almost 18 & 15) who are so far happy, clever, talented, physically fit, and academically successful all without them being burdened with a belief in superstitious nonsense.

Yet there was no god or other nonsense when we got married, yet our godless high sex/high fun marriage has been far better than my god blessed one ever was.

In postscript my ex-wife being Catholic like you, managed to get herself an annulment from me, so she got married again in a Catholic Church with your god's blessing. This time to a Catholic guy, yet that didn't stop her cheating on him either, with other men (according to my child with her). They're still together though which isn't something I would humour for myself, good luck to them though.

Ironically unlike my good and forgiven Catholic ex-wife, this heathen has never cheated on any of his sexual partners.

As to the OP, I think marriage can be terrific if that's what you want and all parties are compatible and grow together through the long haul. That said one can have the same without marriage as well.

That said from what you describe of your current sexual partner, if I were you I would never marry her and would likewise make sure I wouldn't live with her in a way that would see me get stung for being in a de facto relationship with her. There's simply way to many red flags for that to be a sensible proposition.


----------



## Davidmidwest

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


no!! now a days. Its best not to get married any time. Never.
the relationship goes south all youv are on the hook for is child support and don't have to split anything unless you buy a home together.
Both men and women. have your mate move out of the home so upi dont lose your pension or social security. the kick out date is 9 years 6 months. get seperate residences for one year then move back in.


----------



## SpinyNorman

I shouldnthave said:


> One thing I want to point out... there is a commitment greater than marriage - that is having a child with someone.
> 
> And given the way biology works, SHE controls fertility - unless perhaps you have had a vasectomy?
> 
> Someone who does not want kids ever, especially a man, has to take great measures to protect themselves.


I've heard of an invention called a "condom". 


> Personally I think this is a much bigger deal than financial loss, and its not something a pre-nup can protect you from.


 This is the truth


> If you can't trust her enough to marry her, I would be very wary of trusting her not to become pregnant.


It's true that you shouldn't take someone's word that she's on the pill or infertile unless you really, really trust her. But you can have a lot of trust in someone and not want to marry them for some other reason.


----------



## Rob_1

@CatholicDad said: ". Tell us again who is self righteous and brainwashed?" 

You.


----------



## TheBohannons

Prayers for your family. CD.


----------



## CatholicDad

Rob_1 said:


> @CatholicDad said: ". Tell us again who is self righteous and brainwashed?"
> 
> You.


I guess everyone who believes in God is brainwashed huh? So we're all here as a result of some great cosmic accident?


----------



## CatholicDad

Personal, your Catholic marriage story is heartbreaking. Mine's similar, except my Catholic girl stayed true despite my failings and flaws and has given me a houseful of kids, love, and happiness. It ain't heaven though, and lots of work.

I guess neither story proves the truth of the Church. When I look into my own heart though, I know it is true. Certainly no one is going to buy that. But, I still hope you and your wife will come back! The Mass is beautiful even if the congregation is 100% rotten sinners lol.


----------



## Personal

@CatholicDad if you and your wife stick it out together and are happy doing that, I wish you both well.

As to flaws, I don't think anyone (which includes me) is perfect.

As to mass, on rare occasion my wife and I go there, yet we only do it sometimes for family events etc. Mostly to keep the peace with her mother, Since her Italian family are all active in the Catholic church both here and in Italy.

Funnily enough a few years ago, my Catholic mother-in-law who bemoans the fact that our kids haven't been anything other than baptised (which we did as an offer of compromise). Came to learn that one of my wife's ex-Catholic boyfriends was divorced (she dumped him).

As a consequence of finding that out, my mother-in-law actually tried to get my wife and her ex-boyfriend together, because he is Catholic and I am a godless heathen. Plus she thinks we're living in sin because we didn't get married in a Catholic church, so she thinks we aren't married despite the fact she was at our wedding.

My mother-in-law also strangely thinks, I am responsible for my wife not believing gods are real. Yet my wife came to that conclusion before I met her. And as some people do when they realise their belief was ill founded, she told her family at the time, because she didn't want them believing things that couldn't be proven.

Oh and for the record, my wife is in her first marriage.

That said I have no doubt, you can find plenty of Catholic people and people from other faiths, who have enjoyed splendid marriages as well (and good for them). A marriage will only be as good as the people in it and as good as what each of them continue to bring together going forward. While ever people are involved in marriage, it will always be a mixed bag whether they are atheists or believe in a god.

I just don't think one way is the only way to have a great marital relationship, since I don't think one size fits all will ever work for everyone.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

PigglyWiggly said:


> 49m/48f married 12 years and together 14. I enjoy marriage and would do it again with her. I do think marriage has a much better chance of working once both partners are over 30.


We are one of those couples who have been together since our teens.. married early 20's ...always loved being married.. I remember a conversation I had with my husband after we married.. we couldn't understand why people said it would all get worse.. we never felt this way.. sure we had some hard times too (Secondary Infertility for 6 + yrs... he didn't have the best of jobs)... but it all got better... we hung in there.. supported each other.. we've always appreciated / loved having each other and being married.. 

I just feel a couple needs to be brutally honest with each other while dating.. KNOW what they want.. be on the same page.. compatibility is everything... if you don't agree on kids, how to raise them, where you want to live, how to spend money.. how to manage money... sex/ affection... if one is more traditionally minded or modern.. 

A couple needs to love the way the other is wired, enjoy being with each other and have the same vision.. supporting each other through the valleys and the mountain tops they have climbed together...


----------



## Hope Shimmers

SimplyAmorous said:


> We are one of those couples who have been together since our teens.. married early 20's ...always loved being married.. I remember a conversation I had with my husband after we married.. we couldn't understand why people said it would all get worse.. we never felt this way.. sure we had some hard times too (Secondary Infertility for 6 + yrs... he didn't have the best of jobs)... but it all got better... we hung in there.. supported each other.. we've always appreciated / loved having each other and being married..
> 
> I just feel a couple needs to be brutally honest with each other while dating.. KNOW what they want.. be on the same page.. compatibility is everything... if you don't agree on kids, how to raise them, where you want to live, how to spend money.. how to manage money... sex/ affection... if one is more traditionally minded or modern..
> 
> A couple needs to love the way the other is wired, enjoy being with each other and have the same vision.. supporting each other through the valleys and the mountain tops they have climbed together...


If you can find a man who feels that way about you, then great. Personally I have only managed to find men who end up lying and cheating.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Hope Shimmers said:


> If you can find a man who feels that way about you, then great. Personally I have only managed to find men who end up lying and cheating.
> 
> "TheBohannons" lying cheating joke on me


 I'm in my early 50's now.. back then... it seems people were more faithful, cared about commitment, that it was at least commendable...over what we see today... 

I worry for our young daughter.. heck even our sons... None are casual sex seeking types... this leaves them out in the cold much of the time with what is out there, the new normal... 

I feel for the old fashioned romantic in today's world who wants to find lasting love with 1 special person/ and marriage .. our culture has crapped on this ideal... they speak against it, joke about it... shame it...

It doesn't help when the Faithful find themselves betrayed, so often (and understandably so) , this profoundly changes them.. NEVER AGAIN....Marraige takes a huge hit.... 

Never meant to be this way...


----------



## chillymorn69

No......no.....no.....no....no....


****ing no!

Hell no!

I see no purpose for the institution of marriage in todays society!


None what so ever!


----------



## CatholicDad

Hey Personal. I wish you well also. People, like your mother in law ain't perfect. I'm not. You're not.

I think though the fact that people expect "fairness" and morality from others (like you expect some credit from mother in law for being a good husband and father) is proof of a creator that is good. I don't think "fairness" exists in an evolutionary sense where we should only be interested in our survival and propagating our genes! The idea of "fair" shouldn't exist or consume us so much but it does. "Fair" is based on right or wrong and is written into our brains and hearts as most sure proof of our fair and just creator. 

I mean, you were treated very unfairly by your first wife. If we are just evolved apes it seems like the unfairness of it wouldn't bother you and it would be easy to shake this off and find a new mate. But, this understandably wounded you such that you are sharing this years later.

My mother in law has also never like me despite that I converted to the faith, have kept her daughter close by all through our lives (I moved away from my family) and given her lots of grandchildren (all baptised and raised in the faith). Sometimes I wish God didn't exist so I wouldn't feel the hurt of "unfairness"... But I do feel it. At the least, it is a powerful reminder of our just Creator... That I want justice (and to be loved).


----------



## SpinyNorman

CatholicDad said:


> Hey Personal. I wish you well also. People, like your mother in law ain't perfect. I'm not. You're not.
> 
> I think though the fact that people expect "fairness" and morality from others (like you expect some credit from mother in law for being a good husband and father) is proof of a creator that is good. I don't think "fairness" exists in an evolutionary sense where we should only be interested in our survival and propagating our genes!
> 
> The idea of "fair" shouldn't exist or consume us so much but it does. "Fair" is based on right or wrong and is written into our brains and hearts as most sure proof of our fair and just creator.


Or perhaps proof of our intellectual ability to design a society that is fair as opposed to giving knee-jerk preference to our tribe. If this seems counterintuitive to evolution, consider how many more genes survive in a fairer(less tribal) world.


----------



## CatholicDad

SpinyNorman said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Personal. I wish you well also. People, like your mother in law ain't perfect. I'm not. You're not.
> 
> I think though the fact that people expect "fairness" and morality from others (like you expect some credit from mother in law for being a good husband and father) is proof of a creator that is good. I don't think "fairness" exists in an evolutionary sense where we should only be interested in our survival and propagating our genes!
> 
> The idea of "fair" shouldn't exist or consume us so much but it does. "Fair" is based on right or wrong and is written into our brains and hearts as most sure proof of our fair and just creator.
> 
> 
> 
> Or perhaps proof of our intellectual ability to design a society that is fair as opposed to giving knee-jerk preference to our tribe. If this seems counterintuitive to evolution, consider how many more genes survive in a fairer(less tribal) world.
Click to expand...

Why do we crave love? Just to propagate our genes? Why do we want the approval of our parents then? 

I don't think fairness or love would exist in a strictly evolutionary, Godless world. We would love our kids to protect them... They wouldn't love us. I love my parents.

I don't think morality popped into existence as an intellectual exercise or through gene selection. If it did, then love is just a lie, a genetic trick. 

Further, why do we feel sorrow over the loss of our loved ones? Sadness and sorrow would not exist in the evolutionary world, because it does not foster survival or gene propagation.


----------



## billbird2111

I'm 55. Just turned. I went through Hell and back when the wife left two years ago. I can't ever see myself getting hitched again. It's just not worth it. I have a problem. Every woman I've ever started a relationship with has left. It appears I am attracted to "that type." The type that cannot be trusted. The type that will swear she will never cheat or leave, yet do exactly that.

My mother had the same problem. She was only ever attracted to men who were raving alcoholics and abusers. She told me once that she had plenty of good men walk into her life and show interest, yet she told me there was never that "spark." That spark only took place when she met a certain personality: that of a mentally or physically abusive alcoholic. Because of this she swore off men in her late forties. She died in her early sixties.


----------



## SpinyNorman

CatholicDad said:


> Why do we crave love? Just to propagate our genes? Why do we want the approval of our parents then?
> 
> I don't think fairness or love would exist in a strictly evolutionary, Godless world. We would love our kids to protect them... They wouldn't love us. I love my parents.
> 
> I don't think morality popped into existence as an intellectual exercise or through gene selection. If it did, then love is just a lie, a genetic trick.
> 
> Further, why do we feel sorrow over the loss of our loved ones? Sadness and sorrow would not exist in the evolutionary world, because it does not foster survival or gene propagation.


People who don't crave ordinary human relationships typically wind up worse off materially than those who do, i.e. craving love is an advantage. That alone explains how we could have evolved into a species that craves love. 

If your point is that some other form of love would benefit individuals more, that only matters if such a form of love actually appeared and I'm not aware of any evidence it ever did.


----------



## 2ntnuf

In your case, I don't think marriage is right at this time. I don't know if it will be with the same woman in the future, but right now I don't believe it's time.

There are as many different marriage styles as there are married couples. Interpretations of religious doctrine are not the same within the exact same congregation. One atheist and another may not be on the same page. Doesn't matter so much what affiliation you have, as long as your partner has similar affiliations, interests, and so forth. 

Compatibility, forgiveness, compassion, understanding, hope, lovingkindness, respect, trust and many more are extremely important to a marriage intended to last a lifetime. 

It ain't easy to find a mate, for a man or a woman. Find the best possible match and you still have a greater chance at failure than success. You don't know what is going to happen in the future, what changes you and/or your partner will go through. How will you react to those changes? Who knows? No one. We only hope what we know before marriage is fairly constant and consistently improving as time goes by. 

You can limit the chances of a bad marriage. You can't guarantee anything. No one can. I didn't mean this to be a negative post. 

Learn as much as you can about yourself and then your future partner. Read books. Talk to counselors and those who've been married many years. Ask them how they did it. See if you can do that for a lifetime. It isn't easy. It is well worth it, if you have the right partner. 

If it fails, you will take one hell of a hit. Keep that in mind, but don't let if frighten you. Let it prepare you for it's possibility, since about 50% of first marriages fail. Use you head and listen to your gut. Do not let your groin tell you what to do. Good luck.


----------



## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> I think though the fact that people expect "fairness" and morality from others (like you expect some credit from mother in law for being a good husband and father) is proof of a creator that is good. I don't think "fairness" exists in an evolutionary sense where we should only be interested in our survival and propagating our genes! The idea of "fair" shouldn't exist or consume us so much but it does. "Fair" is based on right or wrong and is written into our brains and hearts as most sure proof of our fair and just creator.


Fairness doesn't consume me at all.

I've never thought life was fair, and I don't buy karma either, and I see no evidence of any god in morality which is evidently subjective and certainly varies across cultures and times.

As to my mother-in-law I couldn't care less, and I've certainly never been interested in credit from her (yawn). If it weren't for the fact that my wife is related to her siblings and mother, neither of us would have anything to do with them at all. Not because they're terrible people, just we're not on the same page, different ethics, differing interests and personalities. That said some of her cousins and aunts are nice.



CatholicDad said:


> I mean, you were treated very unfairly by your first wife. If we are just evolved apes it seems like the unfairness of it wouldn't bother you and it would be easy to shake this off and find a new mate. But, this understandably wounded you such that you are sharing this years later.


She forfeited her opportunity to be with me, life moved on for both of us (good luck to her).

That said I shook it off easily. Six months into our separation pending divorce I was enjoying a new life, happily having sex with other women. Bad things sometimes happen, as long as one can still walk, I see no reason to pick oneself up dust off and keep going afterwards. Crying about things, seems like a waste of time to me. I simply shared this to illustrate my point, I tend to be rather matter of fact about such things. I have led/am leading a very interesting life, which affords me plenty of anecdotes for a variety of topics.



CatholicDad said:


> My mother in law has also never like me despite that I converted to the faith, have kept her daughter close by all through our lives (I moved away from my family) and given her lots of grandchildren (all baptised and raised in the faith). Sometimes I wish God didn't exist so I wouldn't feel the hurt of "unfairness"... But I do feel it. At the least, it is a powerful reminder of our just Creator... That I want justice (and to be loved).


If others like me, great. If others don't, meh. No one should feel obliged or compelled, to get on with people they don't like.

That said I don't wish any god doesn't exist at all, because it would be a waste of effort. Since at the end of the day there is no evidence for such a beings existence, that doesn't require some leap of faith to conjure. So absent any falsifiable evidence that can convince me otherwise, I'm happy to presume that gods are as real as tooth fairies.


----------



## RandomDude

In my country if you live together, your relationship is considered de facto after 6 months and pretty prone to the same complications with financial settlements if you two break up. I'm divorced and early 30s, and I say no to marriage or living together with a woman, unless that woman is proven soulmate material, which if she is; you wouldn't be asking these questions.

So no, I don't think at your stage, you should consider marriage.


----------



## wilson

There's no guarantees, but if you want your relationship to last a lifetime, it's better to get married. Most (all?) the disadvantages listed here of not marrying seem to be around splitting assets at the breakup. So then which kind of relationship has a smaller chance of breaking up? Marriage or non-marriage? 

I contend that chances are, a couple will stay together longer married than if they just stay dating. One big reason is that the other person may want to get married. They may end the dating relationship for the express purpose of finding someone who actually wants to get married.

Another reason is that the non-married couple will have to continually decide who pays for what in the relationship. Money can often be a source of contention, so having to always decide who pays for what will likely mean more arguments and a better chance of breakup.

And a person would be a fool to be a stay-at-home-parent in a non-married relationship. If the other person can just walk away and only have to pay CS, the SAHP would be financially devastated. They would have given up years of income and job advancement, no retirement contributions, loss of current skills, and would struggle to ever get back to the salary they used to have. So the non-married couple would not get the benefits of having a SAHP because both people would need to stay working. They couldn't trust the other person to financially support them if things didn't work out.

It comes down to this: There's no such thing as a long-term relationship with an easy breakup. You have to decide which is your primary goal. If you want easy breakups, just date and realize your relationships will be short. If you want a long-term relationship, get married and understand that it will be messy if it doesn't last.


----------



## SpinyNorman

CatholicDad said:


> Why do we crave love? Just to propagate our genes? Why do we want the approval of our parents then?
> 
> I don't think fairness or love would exist in a strictly evolutionary, Godless world. We would love our kids to protect them... They wouldn't love us. I love my parents.


Some people wondered what the advantage to living past your child-rearing years were, since you had done all the gene passing you were going to do at that point. Studies revealed that grandparents were/are beneficial to the individual's survival, so living past your child-rearing years tends to increase the odds of your genes surviving. So if you didn't love your parents and ran them off, your offspring would have a diminished chance of survival, aka there seems to be an evolutionary advantage to loving your parents.


> I don't think morality popped into existence as an intellectual exercise or through gene selection. If it did, then love is just a lie, a genetic trick.


 Maybe it is. I don't discount something b/c it is a downer.


> Further, why do we feel sorrow over the loss of our loved ones? Sadness and sorrow would not exist in the evolutionary world, because it does not foster survival or gene propagation.


Can't think of anything for this one, but as I posted before only the traits that pop up have a chance of surviving. Can the human mind have loyalty and attachment w/o grief upon loss? I don't know. If it never has in an individual, then it would not exist today.

BTW, I'm not saying any of this proves there is no designer, just explaining evolution as best I can.


----------



## ChargingCharlie

Absolutely not - I'm writing as a man in my early 50's, married 15 years, two small kids. I'm tired of dealing with her siblings (both are a PITA, one much more so than the other, but they're both annoying). They've caused a lot of stress in our marriage, and my wife won't tell them to knock it off. I'm tired of having only having sex every two years or so, and that's only if the kids aren't home, the sun and moon are in an eclipse, and her idiot siblings haven't done something to upset her. I'm tired of having her buy more crap that we don't need (and when I mention it, she tells me that she has a job and can spend what she wants). 

Marriage isn't worth it - I wasn't having sex when I was single, but I did what I wanted and I'd get to see my friends. Now I'm married, never have sex, never see my friends, and have to put up with all of her family drama.


----------



## 269370

CatholicDad said:


> Why do we crave love? Just to propagate our genes? Why do we want the approval of our parents then?



You are asking all the right questions. Just for some reason the answers don’t seem as obvious...

Same reason some also want the approval of God.

Do read the book Selfish Gene by the godless apostate and blasphemist Richard Dawkins. All is explained quite clearly (even if a little one-sidedly, for commercial effect. Mostly.).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Personal

ChargingCharlie said:


> Marriage isn't worth it - I wasn't having sex when I was single, but I did what I wanted and I'd get to see my friends. Now I'm married, never have sex, never see my friends, and have to put up with all of her family drama.


Marriage is neutral.

Your marital situation is a consequence of your choices, it certainly doesn't have to be that way.

I'm almost 47 and I've been with my current 2nd wife for 22 years (married for 19 years), yet I do what I want, frequently have sex, see my friends as I like and don't have to put up with any family drama.

If you want a different outcome make different choices and do different things.


----------



## Diana7

Razor1777 said:


> You make a ton of good points. I do love this woman and care about her child although I advised her from the beginning that I would prefer to not hold a significant amount of legal and financial responsibility over the child. Another factor in our relationship has been that her 22 year old brother lived with us for 2 years and we both had to pitch in to support him financially cause he couldn't get his sh*t together. He moved out with his gf now but if something happens to them he may be back. So my concern is that if I marry her I may end up taking care of a whole family and I don't have the financial means to do so.


Absolutely its worth it and my husband would say the same. We both had long first marriages that ended badly after 23 and 25 years, but it didn't put either of us off, and when we were in our late 40s we met and got married and never regretted it for a second. 

In your case, if you aren't prepared to really commit to her (and the child is part of that), and be a good supportive husband, then no. When we married my just about adult kids were still very hurt by their dad. They have no contact with him but my husband has completely taken over the role of step dad, and as he said, when you marry someone, the children are part of that commitment. They think a lot of him. 

So from what you said you are not willing to be a committed husband or step dad, so please tell her so that she is free to meet a man who is.


----------



## wilson

ChargingCharlie said:


> Absolutely not - I'm writing as a man in my early 50's, married 15 years, two small kids. I'm tired of dealing with her siblings (both are a PITA, one much more so than the other, but they're both annoying). ...


How would not getting married have helped you? If you had just been BF-GF with her these past 15 years, wouldn't you still have all those same hassles to deal with? Or would not being married have made it easier to walk away at an earlier point? If you had not married, what would the timeline of your relationship with her look like?


----------



## Hope Shimmers

WasDecimated said:


> For me, absolutely Not.
> 
> I'm 55. I’ve been married twice, divorced twice. Both wives turned out to be cheaters and liars. I was always a loving, devoted, hardworking husband…in all respects. In retrospect, I put way too much into my marriages, and got little in return. I will never invest to that level again except in myself, and my children. Both XWW’s walked away with bags of money and alimony to ride the carousel. All they had to do was lie and screw someone else to get it.
> 
> Honestly, I never thought I would be divorced once, let alone twice. I actually loved being married. That was before the messed up value system of modern women opened my eyes. My parents have been married for over 50 years. I always wanted the same in life. It seems like more and more women these days live in a shallow selfie taking, Facebook posting, narcissistic world where taking is the priority and giving is nonexistent. They are always on the lookout for something better whether it be looks, money, or social status. They have unrealistic expectations of marriage. I personally know over a dozen good men who have been screwed over by cheating wives and our no fault legal system. No thanks. That road is now closed. I will never again travel down it.
> 
> Through both marriages, I was constantly putting my wives before myself, making sure they felt appreciated, loved, respected and cherished. All of that focus and energy being expended just to be betrayed in the end. Now I put myself first, and I am a lot better off. I am not alone. The MGTOW movement is growing. More and more men are realizing marriage is a bad deal for them. They are choosing to do their own thing without potential repercussions of matrimony and divorce. Some are even in full on Monk mode. I realize that all women are not the cause of this movement but enough of them have been wrecking balls in the lives of men that the smart ones are no longer interested…including me. They’ve grow up seeing their fathers, uncles and friends getting screwed by marriage just like women have grown up seeing their moms, aunts and friends benefitting from divorce. As a society, we are slowly killing marriage as an institution. Women, because they are making it a bad deal for men and men because they are wising up. Where did all the good men go? Sorry girls, your kind scared them away.
> 
> The bottom line is, I have everything I need. What do I need a marriage for? I earn my own money, do my own cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, yard work…etc. (I did all these things when I was married anyway). I have plenty of friends to talk to, go places and do things with and I don’t have to ask permission, beg forgiveness or shower them with gifts and attention. What do they have to offer? Aside from a tax exemption, what is the benefit to being married…sex? That tapers off with in a couple years anyway. And besides, women nowadays seem to give that away for free. They don’t require a commitment anymore.
> 
> 
> No thanks, I'm not interested.


This is a great post (speaking here as a once-divorced, 53-year-old-single woman). I got financially screwed in the divorce. I live for my adult kids now. I will not marry again, but something inside of me still wants a man. It sucks. Because most men out there don't want what I do.


----------



## Diana7

WasDecimated said:


> For me, absolutely Not.
> 
> I'm 55. I’ve been married twice, divorced twice. Both wives turned out to be cheaters and liars. I was always a loving, devoted, hardworking husband…in all respects. In retrospect, I put way too much into my marriages, and got little in return. I will never invest to that level again except in myself, and my children. Both XWW’s walked away with bags of money and alimony to ride the carousel. All they had to do was lie and screw someone else to get it.
> 
> Honestly, I never thought I would be divorced once, let alone twice. I actually loved being married. That was before the messed up value system of modern women opened my eyes. My parents have been married for over 50 years. I always wanted the same in life. It seems like more and more women these days live in a shallow selfie taking, Facebook posting, narcissistic world where taking is the priority and giving is nonexistent. They are always on the lookout for something better whether it be looks, money, or social status. They have unrealistic expectations of marriage. I personally know over a dozen good men who have been screwed over by cheating wives and our no fault legal system. No thanks. That road is now closed. I will never again travel down it.
> 
> Through both marriages, I was constantly putting my wives before myself, making sure they felt appreciated, loved, respected and cherished. All of that focus and energy being expended just to be betrayed in the end. Now I put myself first, and I am a lot better off. I am not alone. The MGTOW movement is growing. More and more men are realizing marriage is a bad deal for them. They are choosing to do their own thing without potential repercussions of matrimony and divorce. Some are even in full on Monk mode. I realize that all women are not the cause of this movement but enough of them have been wrecking balls in the lives of men that the smart ones are no longer interested…including me. They’ve grow up seeing their fathers, uncles and friends getting screwed by marriage just like women have grown up seeing their moms, aunts and friends benefitting from divorce. As a society, we are slowly killing marriage as an institution. Women, because they are making it a bad deal for men and men because they are wising up. Where did all the good men go? Sorry girls, your kind scared them away.
> 
> The bottom line is, I have everything I need. What do I need a marriage for? I earn my own money, do my own cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, yard work…etc. (I did all these things when I was married anyway). I have plenty of friends to talk to, go places and do things with and I don’t have to ask permission, beg forgiveness or shower them with gifts and attention. What do they have to offer? Aside from a tax exemption, what is the benefit to being married…sex? That tapers off with in a couple years anyway. And besides, women nowadays seem to give that away for free. They don’t require a commitment anymore.
> 
> 
> No thanks, I'm not interested.


You have let your 2 bad marriages colour your feelings towards marriage. You chose 2 wives who weren't women of integrity or honesty. 

If you are happy to spend the rest of you life into old age alone, then that's fine. 

I value marriage highly. For us its the only place for sex, and you are wrong that sex tapers off, in a good marriage it doesn't. Sex in a good loving marriage is the best. Casual sex with the risk of STD's is so meaningless and empty. 

You are also wrong that many men are turning their backs on marriage, nearly all men will still get married even if they live together first. If a man has a good wife he has a real treasure. Men who are married are happier, healthier and live longer than those who are not.


----------



## Wolf1974

Not sure if it’s worth it and that stance may change as you grow. When I was younger I wanted family, Marriage and kids. My legitimate life goal was to have a big house with multi generations of my family sharing holidays together under one roof. That was pretty much laid waste with my x wife’s affair and our divorce. 

So now later in life marriage doesn’t really hold much value to me. I can live with a woman, we can have sex, date, share bills, and so on. All this I can do with without marriage. What marriage does represent is risk which to date I just haven’t found a real reason to chance.


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## Ditch

Second time around for me and it will be the last. with the failure rate at or above 50%, or you want kids, I would say no. Its the womens dream of a day in paradise, that fails to meet expectations. Women spend thousands on a dress they will never wear again and guys rent, go figure


----------



## ChargingCharlie

wilson said:


> How would not getting married have helped you? If you had just been BF-GF with her these past 15 years, wouldn't you still have all those same hassles to deal with? Or would not being married have made it easier to walk away at an earlier point? If you had not married, what would the timeline of your relationship with her look like?


I would never have gotten involved with her in the first place. I was never someone who dated a lot, so being single was what I knew. Met her via internet dating back in the early 2000's - did internet dating because the friend I hung out with met his wife at a party and I figured that I better **** or get off the pot. If I had known how much of a pain her family is, how lazy she is, and that she has the sex drive of a corpse, I wouldn't have bothered.


----------



## Luminous

Diana7 said:


> You are also wrong that many men are turning their backs on marriage, nearly all men will still get married even if they live together first. If a man has a good wife he has a real treasure. Men who are married are happier, healthier and live longer than those who are not.


And what observations or statistics brought you to that conclusion?

Living a longer life doesn't automatically equate to it being either happy nor healthier. It is great that you have found success in yours, but, as you have mentioned to a fellow member, your experiences (may) have coloured your outlook on an institution that has lost alot of meaning in the current western culture.

Sent from my HTC_M9u using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

Luminous said:


> And what observations or statistics brought you to that conclusion?
> 
> Living a longer life doesn't automatically equate to it being either happy nor healthier. It is great that you have found success in yours, but, as you have mentioned to a fellow member, your experiences (may) have coloured your outlook on an institution that has lost alot of meaning in the current western culture.
> 
> Sent from my HTC_M9u using Tapatalk


I have read many studies that have shown this. 

I dont see around me that marriage has lost most meaning, I see nearly everyone still eventually getting married. I see hardly any one who isn't married by their 30's-40's. 

We both had long first marriages that ended in divorce, but it didn't put us off at all. We still value marriage greatly and know how important it is.


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## MichelleThoughts

I've been married thirteen years and have four small children. The hardest part for us is finding time and affection for each other because our children are so demanding. I wouldn't trade any of it for the world though, and my husband says he's very happy with me. 

He was divorced before he met me and his first wife was a chronic liar and also cheated on him. The marriage was very short-lived. But with me, he knew I was right for him and didn't allow the bad previous experience stop him from committing to me.

We've had our bumps in the road but I'm really glad we got married. If he weren't interested in marriage, I would have probably not taken him seriously. I told him from the getgo I wanted to get married so we were a good match from the start. I like the commitment, the security, and just feeling like we are truly part of a family. 

My dad and his two brothers all got burned pretty badly with marriage and divorce. Nonetheless, my dad and his brothers still remarried. My dad in particular is very happy with my stepmom. She is absolutely perfect for him. So it's definitely a bit of a risk, but when it works I think it's totally worth it.


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## Married but Happy

The marriage rate has declined dramatically. 31% or lower now, vs never less than 60% prior to 1980.



> Although the marriage rate and the proportion of women who are married have risen and fallen from the 1890s to the 1960s, they have declined precipitously since 1970 with both now at record lows. Furthermore, women’s median age at first marriage is the highest it has been in over a century at 26.6 (U.S. Census Bureau, 2012).


https://www.bgsu.edu/content/dam/BGSU/college-of-arts-and-sciences/NCFMR/documents/FP/FP-13-13.pdf




> delayed marriage may not explain all of the drop-off. The share of Americans who have never married has been rising steadily in recent decades. At the same time, more adults are living with a partner instead of marrying and raising children outside of marriage.


As U.S. marriage rate hovers at 50%, education gap in marital status widens | Pew Research Center


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## wilson

I think this thread should really be "Are long-term relationships worth it?", since that's really the issue that people are complaining about. 

I would say that most people are not cut out to live in the reality of a multi-decade relationship. Most people seem to think it's going to be all rainbows and unicorns like it was at the beginning, which virtually never happens. For a lot of people, just having a series of shorter, multi-year (5 year?) relationships would probably bring the most overall happiness. They'd get the rainbows and unicorns at the beginning, and then get out before the challenging parts.

Maybe it's like climbing Everest. Most people aren't cut out to do that, so just doing shorter hikes are better. But for the people who have the fortitude to go the distance, climbing Everest can be worth it. It's up to each person to decide if they are the type of person who is capable of going the distance.


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## james5588

Ugh,

Skimmed the thread, but I know I am going to get roasted for this...

Asking "is it worth is" reveals a lot about how you see the institution of marriage. Cost/benefit analysis, will you get as much out of it as you put into it?

You're missing the point, imo.

Marriage is supposed to be about what you give, not what you get back and keeping a tally of it all.

Naive you say? Maybe so. But imagine how much better life will be if you and your fiancee both go into the rest your lives with this mentality!! If either of you aren't ready for that, then I would say holding off.


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## Diana7

james5588 said:


> Ugh,
> 
> Skimmed the thread, but I know I am going to get roasted for this...
> 
> Asking "is it worth is" reveals a lot about how you see the institution of marriage. Cost/benefit analysis, will you get as much out of it as you put into it?
> 
> You're missing the point, imo.
> 
> Marriage is supposed to be about what you give, not what you get back and keeping a tally of it all.
> 
> Naive you say? Maybe so. But imagine how much better life will be if you and your fiancee both go into the rest your lives with this mentality!! If either of you aren't ready for that, then I would say holding off.


You wont get roasted by me, brilliant post. :smile2:
I read so much here about what 'I' want and what 'I' need. People have generally become very selfish, putting themselves above their spouses and children.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Diana7 said:


> You are also wrong that many men are turning their backs on marriage, nearly all men will still get married even if they live together first. If a man has a good wife he has a real treasure. Men who are married are happier, healthier and live longer than those who are not.


I think you're right nearly everyone thinks marriage is just something you do if you find someone. Then 50% of them wind up divorced, busted homes and paying out the nose to some life sucker. The 50% that make it, likely half of them are miserable or atleast unfulfilled to some extent by they stay because their options are limited, the other half really nailed the jackpot and are happy. It worked out for them so it must work out for everyone, right? 

In the end, marriage is a terrible gamble and far too many come out losers to really endorse the idea. Too many people these days and I mean A LOT, see it not as a lifelong commitment but as a flight of fancy. The ring is pretty, the wedding is fun, kids are cute, ooops now I'm bored, cya... No loyalty. Finding that is really hard in another person, everyone is far more interested in selfies and social media to give an ounce of unselfishness to someone that provides a house and helps raise their children.

But I guess the tax exemption and shared rent/untilities is nice while it lasts.


----------



## Diana7

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think you're right nearly everyone thinks marriage is just something you do if you find someone. Then 50% of them wind up divorced, busted homes and paying out the nose to some life sucker. The 50% that make it, likely half of them are miserable or atleast unfulfilled to some extent by they stay because their options are limited, the other half really nailed the jackpot and are happy. It worked out for them so it must work out for everyone, right?
> 
> In the end, marriage is a terrible gamble and far too many come out losers to really endorse the idea. Too many people these days and I mean A LOT, see it not as a lifelong commitment but as a flight of fancy. The ring is pretty, the wedding is fun, kids are cute, ooops now I'm bored, cya... No loyalty. Finding that is really hard in another person, everyone is far more interested in selfies and social media to give an ounce of unselfishness to someone that provides a house and helps raise their children.
> 
> But I guess the tax exemption and shared rent/untilities is nice while it lasts.


The majority who divorce do eventually marry again. In the UK I think its 40% who divorce, and not sure why you think that half of the remainder are miserable? I do know many really good marriages, some of them like ours, second marriages. 

I agree that far too many will end a marriage for selfish reasons. Too easy just to run away from problems rather than work on them.


----------



## happyhusband0005

CatholicDad said:


> Why do we crave love? Just to propagate our genes? Why do we want the approval of our parents then?
> 
> I don't think fairness or love would exist in a strictly evolutionary, Godless world. We would love our kids to protect them... They wouldn't love us. I love my parents.
> 
> I don't think morality popped into existence as an intellectual exercise or through gene selection. If it did, then love is just a lie, a genetic trick.
> 
> Further, why do we feel sorrow over the loss of our loved ones? Sadness and sorrow would not exist in the evolutionary world, because it does not foster survival or gene propagation.


The first part here I don't agree with anything, I don't think people crave love specifically, they crave companionship and when they develop feelings of love for someone they obviously would prefer that that person love them back, but I don't think people start out craving love. And I don't know why people want their parents approval, I certainly never did anything out of the hope my parents would approve of it. I didn't do certain things as a kid so I would get in trouble and be punished. 

I think fairness comes directly from evolution. Primates evolved to live in social groups sometimes mostly with relatives but not always. The social structures created in primates were for the specific survival of the species and to share protection and resources. This developed to a far greater extent as humans developed still living in tribal groups and sharing resources etc. As we developed into more complex communities a social welfare dynamic began to develop and even cavemen cared for their elderly etc. So things like empathy, love and sense of family and community has it's routes in our evolution. This is all scientific fact.

What you are arguing in relation to what you would expect of humans without god is simply not spelled out in reality. Study's have consistently shown non religious people are more accepting of outsiders and more generous than strictly religious people. 

I was raised in a strict catholic family, and after my 13 years of strict catholic education I learned a few things that led me away from religion and any belief in God.

1. Priests, Nuns and Brothers were some of the most miserable people I have ever known.

2. Through out history religions of the world have led to more suffering and oppression that anything good.

3. If there was a being all powerful enough to create the universe and heaven would they really set rules like don't have sex before marriage and say if you don't worship me you don't get into the big house. Just doesn't make sense. 

I don't need religion to tell me how to be a good human being, I would not for a second look to those religious educators I suffered in my youth as a guide as to how I should treat others. 

Religion has had no part in my marriage my kids are not baptized, but they are good, caring, empathetic, generous kids.

I feel sometimes the preachy religious types are trying to convince themselves they are morally superior than us heathens because if that wasn't true all the self oppression serves no purpose. 

The dirt we are planted in after we die is not going to judge any of us.


----------



## SpinyNorman

james5588 said:


> Ugh,
> 
> Skimmed the thread, but I know I am going to get roasted for this...
> 
> Asking "is it worth is" reveals a lot about how you see the institution of marriage. Cost/benefit analysis, will you get as much out of it as you put into it?
> 
> You're missing the point, imo.
> 
> Marriage is supposed to be about what you give, not what you get back and keeping a tally of it all.
> 
> Naive you say? Maybe so. But imagine how much better life will be if you and your fiancee both go into the rest your lives with this mentality!! If either of you aren't ready for that, then I would say holding off.


I'm not angry and don't plan to "roast" you, but I think you can ask if an arrangement is worth it and still expect to give in the arrangement. OTOH if you plan to just give without any expectations, why do you need a commitment?


----------



## AKA Broken Arrow

I've been with my wife for 30 years next month, married for 23. Marriage is hard work on both sides but I would say it's worth it if you pick the right spouse.

Having said that, if me and my wife ever split, I would remain single for the duration.


----------



## vincent3

My default is to say that it isn't worth it, unless you find yourself in a relationship that's so mutually fulfilling that the thought of not marrying her is painful. Of course, you need to be sure that pain comes from a healthy mind, not a dysfunctional or browbeaten one.


----------



## 2ntnuf

The feeling of love is an addiction. We marry under the influence of this addiction. Some are able to separate that feeling from reality and see their relationship partner for who they really are. Those folks tend to leave sooner. Those who have difficulty seeing reality through the love and bonding chemicals tend to put up with more and hurt more. Those second folks tend to be more committed and many times, too committed.


----------



## Tknight

Know yourself is all I will say. Relationships are not for me for example. I'm too introverted and selfish. I get bored really quickly of women and need constant change. I like to do things at my own pace. I never feel lonely and I cannot possibly the benefit of having someone else in my life, I'd feel suffocated.

That said I would only ever consider marrying again if I was in a very happy relationship with someone for at least 10 years straight, no less. But in my case she would have to be a selfish prick like me.

Life changes so much in so little time, if you haven't had many bad days together you shouldn't test your endurance through a legally binding document. 

Cheers!


----------



## aine

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


It’s not worth it for women either. They give up their lives, careers and the good life to take care of some mans kids to be cheated on and treated like **** in many cases when they have lost their looks and cannot start over again. Women need men like a fish needs a bicycle imo


----------



## 2ntnuf

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. *She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. * For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


Marriage to this woman is not worth it.


----------



## 2ntnuf

aine said:


> It’s not worth it for women either. They give up their lives, careers and the good life to take care of some mans kids to be cheated on and treated like **** in many cases when they have lost their looks and cannot start over again. Women need men like a fish needs a bicycle imo


((Hug))


----------



## Diana7

I think marriage is really worth it if you marry he right person.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

I really enjoy being married to Tracy. It is probably the smartest thing this old dog has ever done.


----------



## Fazz

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


That is a very good question to be asking, I've experienced a marriage breakdown in the past, however, am happily married now and think it is fantastic, however, what I think is important is that you have your own solid reasons for wanting to get married and having reasonable expectations from marriage.

That way you can try and evaluate if marriage is right for you, and also if you personally are ready for marriage. Then you need to determine what type of spouse you are right for and what type of spouse is right for you. 

Combine all those together then you are better placed to make a call. However, if you rely on the opinions of others about whether marriage is good or bad, you will probably be left confused.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I'll just say absolutely yes. 

Married soon to be 34yrs. Yay us! Enjoy it greatly. And very regularly 😎. Physical and non physical perks abound. 

There's nothing like sharing experiences and building a history of shared experiences. 

Not burying ones head in the sand about things that may lead to heartbreak or in the sand hiding from things to do that can take the enjoyment to new heights!

Like ALL important things use your smarts and passion as you approach it and execute it.


----------



## ElCanario

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and what you know about today's women, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


Is marriage worth it for men? Hell to the no!


----------



## Beach123

It's not worth it for this woman...

But I need to ask - why the need to get married? Especially if you don't plan to have kids - there's really no reason.


Why not just enjoy it the way it is now?


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## Rick Blaine

Marriage provides the ultimate joy in life, and I can't relate to the notion that matrimony is an outdated concept. The attitudes I see expressed here mirror attitidudes we see about other life issues. We give up on the ideal because we've been burned. When people fall short of our expectations and when they do hurtful and selfish things, it sours us on humanity and our institutions, marriage included. Life at its zenith reaches for the excellence of the ideal. Perfection may not be attainable, but excellence is. So, then, how is marriage ideal when so many turn South? Why is it worth it?

Life is essentially about relationships with God, others, and self. Marriage models all relationships in that just as we were created in God's image, the children we bear are created in ours. The life-giving fruit of marriage sustains each person in enduring happiness. Husband and wife nuture each other in love, support, and commitment. The promise of fidelity protects us from harm and our children from catastrophic disunity and chaos. The married life, from my point of view and belief system, offers the most fully integrated vocation. The white hot passion of new love is replaced with the rhythmic pace of affection and contentment. But as we have learned from so many grieving spouses on this board, that affection and contement is girded by the sturdy bones of love that surpasses ephemeral passion. Plus, romance can be rekindled over and over again if it is nurtured by a commitment to time alone together. As a song by Alabama goes, "Don't ever take it for granted. It's more than sowing some seeds. It takes sun and water, so give it what it needs." The living testimonials of marriages that thrive are proof that romance is a renewable source of energy, and those marriages are not scarce. 

Of course, marriage is hard work. Because marriage requires the ultimate commitment, the road is paved by sacrifice and challenges. But the move forward toward the greater good always is! I cannot think of anything better than a loving spouse for life and a unified family that children can depend on. 

When marriages do fail, we have to accept the fact that we cannot control our spouse. Too many people blame the failure of their marriage on their own failures. But no one is perfect. When we approach marriage with a fixed mindset-- e.g., my wife is a poor spouse because all she does is post on Facebook and gossip with her friends, or I made a mistake marrying my husband because all he does when he's not working is play video games and watch sports --instead of growth mindset--I am unhappy in my marriage because my spouse doesn't give me enough attention, but I am committed to communicating the problem with him, and I am glad he is open to helping me solve this problem--marriages fall apart. Marital challenges are a problem to be solved, not an excuse to terminate the marriage and break the ultimate life promise that was made. It's hard work, it's sacrifice, and it's even turning the cheek sometimes, but in the end it's worth it! But it takes two. 

With all of that said, the OP needs to know with as much certainty as possible that his girlfriend will enter marriage with an attitude of life-long love and commitment. Her spending habits are big red flag because they are a sign of impulse control issues that often become the death of a marriage. I would give this more time.


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## lovelygirl

Razor1777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep it simple here: Is marriage for men really worth it? I know the happily married young men will say that it is. I am posing this question more for the 30-50 year old crowd, especially the guys who have already been down that road at least once. Given the current landscape and *what you know about today's women*, is it worth buying that ring and signing that contract? I have a good gf with many redeeming qualities but we have also had our struggles. She has one pre-teen; I have no kids and don't want any. For me, I just don't see the real benefit in getting married again. But maybe someone here can prove otherwise. Thoughts?


What do you know about today's women that makes you doubt about marriage?


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