# Online EA & shortage of help for that type of infidelity. Let's help here.



## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

I've noticed that there a real shortage of helpful books and websites for the online only EA. Most recovery books deal with the PA/EA affairs that occur in your daily touchable life, not thousands of miles apart. 

"Not just friends" deals with mostly real life EA's but does briefly touch on online only infidelity but it was written prior to the internet/facebook and social media having such a influence that it does now days. 

We all know that online only infidelity is growing like a weed but the mainstream sources haven't caught up yet. It has a real embarrassing stigma attached to it because it's seen as even more escapist and trenched in la la land. 

In my experience my friends and even my therapist felt like on the scale of adultery it bled less and was more pathetic for lack of a better word. 

Care to share your experience?


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

I am a BS. My H had an online EA with numerous women (or so they say they were) on a chat site and the conversations were of extremely explicit sex talk. Additionally, the personal exchanges left the chat site and there was secretive e-mailing and pics exchanged. After 3 1/2 weeks of this going on, I discovered this damage and it stopped. Yes, it stopped but the damage is still there and it still hurts. I agree that the majority of EA's discussed is about "real life" people participating in EA's and that the mainstream doctors and books have not caught up to today's online world. 

All I can say, is that betrayal is betrayal and the pain is just as real. Just because they were strangers and I do not know the person(s) does not make it hurt any less. Sometimes, thinking that ANY random person was enough for him is actually more painful than the fact that there was not a "real life" person that he grew an attachment to. :scratchhead: Maybe that sounds warped, but it is how I feel. 

The bottom line for me is this: Infidelity of any shape or form really hurts!


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

My WAW had an online long distance EA with someone from her home country. Ironically the thing crashed and burned when they actually met but I don't know why. I think he wanted to go physical but she wasn't that attracted to him.

Not only was this extremely damaging to the M but it opened the door to infidelity. Through the EA I believe my WAW was testing the water going on quiet little dates with men. And she met someone that she jumped into a full PA with as soon as the EA was over. 

One thing that makes online EAs very easy is that it is so easy for things to escalate in little steps. With someone in real life it takes a bit of courage to start flirting and a bit more courage to go further - all with that little voice in your ear saying "this is wrong". Online its so easy to flirt a little with the anonymous screen, then flirt some more, then post some personal secrets off into the ether...and before long you've revealed far more about yourself than you ever wanted to and you've become addicted to the appreciation and the warm feelings that come out of that chat window. And all without having had to overcome your inhibitions or screw up your courage - because it's easy - it's not really cheating, right?


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

Ugggghhh...I know you said that last line in jest, but I HATE it!

"it's not really cheating, right?"

On Dday, within the first 3 minutes of confrontation , my H in all seriousness looks at me and says: " I wasn't cheating, I was only chatting". WHAT??? Of course, now he knows better! 

I cannot tell you how many times I have heard from others, well at least it wasn't a PA! Really? Tell me when someone shoots you in the heart or stabs you in the back which one feels better? I am willing to wager they both really hurt. 

I know many people on here cannot relate to EA's and have experienced the "physical affair" in their M, but trust me the EA is equally painful. The notion of having a relationship that you perceive as beautiful and having it destroyed and discarded by a selfish WS is just as awful.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

point about online eas I'd that because there is a feeling of safety they move really fast. It was hard to find help on the topic but a lot of what i found talked about how fast these types of As move. Something i hard a time dealing with when i discovered my wifes EA
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

All good points, 

Another point.. if the online EA is never consummated ( they meet in RL) then it's forever a affair interuptus. Unless it goes sour on it's own before being discovered by a spouse. In the affair interrupted situation it leaves a feeling of "what if" and I hate that part. 

I like the catfish stories because they do have a conclusion to the EA and puts it to rest.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

From a article on CNN--

Despite the current atmosphere of distrust, falling in love sight unseen, often through the written word, has been happening for centuries. The Web has only made it easier. Some experts say communicating online before meeting IRL (that's In Real Life) can actually foster strong relationships by helping those with similar interests come together over great distances. Potential lovers overlook superficial turnoffs, and people open up to each faster and more deeply.

"Online technology, as well as SMS, enables having a connection that is faster and more direct," said Aaron Ben-Ze'ev, a philosophy professor at the University of Haifa and author of the book "Love Online: Emotions on The Internet." "It also enables ongoing dialogue as compared to the slow interactions that are typical of letters."

Translation: While it may have taken months to a year for couples to communicate and therefore grow closer in the past, today we can have lengthy, deep interactions with a stroke of a key (or touchscreen).


Dr. Artemio Ramirez, Jr., associate professor of communication at the University of South Florida, has done his own research on the effects of online communications on offline relationships.

"If you meet someone face to face shortly after you meet them online, it's not necessarily going to lead to someone having a positive relationship, but waiting longer increases the possibility that things are not going to work out," he said. "We tend to develop in our heads these impressions of what we think that person is like, even though the realities of communication do not reflect that."

Still, Ramirez says the effect of idealization can be mitigated by expanding a relationship beyond the bounds of the written word.

"When people rely on more text-based forms of communication, that's where you really see people idealizing. When people in relationships can talk on the phone or via Skype, it's more of a reality check," he said. "Each new form of communication incrementally gives us more information about that person."


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

daggeredheart said:


> I've noticed that there a real shortage of helpful books and websites for the online only EA. Most recovery books deal with the PA/EA affairs that occur in your daily touchable life, not thousands of miles apart.
> 
> "Not just friends" deals with mostly real life EA's but does briefly touch on online only infidelity but it was written prior to the internet/facebook and social media having such a influence that it does now days.
> 
> ...


An affair is an affair.

End of story.

Exposure, NC letter, NC, get the book Survivng An Affair by Dr Harley. Good night.

Stick a fork in this thread it is done.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

I think we've established it is a affair what I thought would be helpful is support/tips for the BS who is feeling invisible /meaningless because their partner fell in love (or thought) with someone they have never seen in real life, never touched, never held hands, never witnessed them smile and yet wanted to ditch the marriage for this ghost.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

theroad said:


> An affair is an affair.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> ...


You miss the point, IMO. 

No one has suggested anything to the contrary. 

While many on TAM are well aware of the ease of entering into an online A, and the fallout that comes along with it, I agree with OP that the subject is not being addressed as it may be should be in the mainstream. 

I have a helluva online A story I will share when I get the opportunity. 

Anyone ever hear of "Second Life"? It can become a person's first (and only) life. 

Till later. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

My FWW tried to minimize the betrayal hiding behind the fact it was online. That's a load of crap. 

Like others have said, betrayal is betrayal. The only difference between an online EA and a in person EA is that the online EA is easier to do right under the BS nose. No need to make lame excuses to get out of the house. Just make sure it's easy to hide the computer screen.

The sooner both the BS and WS understand this the sooner they can resolve or dissolve the relationship. The WS can't act like it isn't a big deal when it is to the BS. All books on betrayal and cheating apply to an online EA.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Second life, Everquest, World of Warcraft, Kingdom of Camelot, Words w Friends....the gaming list goes on and that's not even touching the ipad apps and social media. 

Two years ago I peeked into second life to see what all the fuss was about especially after the CNN article where a woman made a million bucks selling virtual real estate. 

Within 15 minutes of logging and creating a avatar a "guy" came up to me doing the Mr Roboto move and asked me if I wanted to "make sexy time"... 

These online games suck you in and I can see how you become immersed in the role playing and think you are that person. It's a fascinating phenomenon for social scientist. 

Acoa-- you are right, it can happen under your nose and online addiction is ever present. Realistically how can you go NC with the entire internet??? I think that adds another layer to the recovery process. We might not have the sexual component to get out of our minds but we have the other virtual details to try and hurdle.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Oldtimer- I can't wait to hear your story and I think it would be quite valuable to others.


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## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

Daggered - 

My H had three EA's. They were not like the one you describe here because he actually knew these women. However all OW's were "offsite". Like you, the relationships actually developed online, not in person. One of the women he had not seen or spoken with in over 10 years when the EA developed.

I think that EA's are not fully understood. Most people can relate to a PA. In saying this, I"m not minimizing the pain that any BS goes through, I'm talking about how others understand one's situation from the outside looking in. I think that's because there are so many types of EA's and the betrayals come in all shapes and sizes. My H did not have any sexual discussions with his AP's, yet I feel as betrayed as if he had slept with them. Problem is, I'd have to talk or type for a very long time to justify why I feel H crossed the line. When one says, "My spouse had sex with another person" everyone's onboard.

I"m not sure I"m making sense...lol. I just wanted you to know that I appreciate you bringing up EA's. Sometimes its like getting your arms around a cloud.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Busy Accountant said:


> Daggered -
> 
> My H had three EA's. They were not like the one you describe here because he actually knew these women. However all OW's were "offsite". Like you, the relationships actually developed online, not in person. One of the women he had not seen or spoken with in over 10 years when the EA developed.
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree and from a fWW with an online EA point of view: cheaters need to understand that it IS cheating and the consequences are no different than with any other affair.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Busy, you make some great points, hard to get people on board and the totally online affairs where the participants have never met in person are treated with skepticism and seen as childish dalliance. 

As a BS I was conflicted in my grief because on the scale of adultery, online EAs can seem minor.....fewer mind movies, non existent sex acts to torture yourself with but still wrestling with the same trust issues as in any type of affair. 

There is also a huge self esteem issue in this type of adultery because you are being compared to a idealized version of the online person. They have never been in the trenches and have zero historical knowledge of your spouse or life and yet they rank higher seemingly overnight?????


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## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

I'd like to disagree Daggered. You say that your WS had a "idealized" version of AP? That is true with my situation. Yours...even worse!!! It was all fantasy!!!! Its not a level playing field!!! There is no way to complete with a ghost, as you put it.

As far as sex acts go...again, I disagree!!! There is NO opportunity for "bad" sex or "great" sex. Only perfect sex!!! Who would ever engage in a fantasy about anything other than perfect sex?!

Last, I have mind movies all the time. Rather than about sex, its about what H said to his AP's. There are phrases he used that still haunt me to this day. They represent the essense of the betrayal itself. "OK, so this is me". H was acknowledging his special place in her life. "i will treasure it as my prized possession". He was talking about her business card with the word "dance" written on the back. I took at look at our kids...he treasured her business card as much as his own flesh and blood? He emailed her on my birthday with me sitting 10 feet away. The dinner party I threw for his relatives wasn't good enough to distract him later that night from his email. EA's can happen any time, any where. No need for a seedy hotel or the backseat of a car.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

All 3 of my H's affairs were online/phone/text etc EAs. The first one was 16 years ago when chat rooms were fairly new and he got sucked in fast and was unsure we would go on as a couple. They even talked of getting together even though she was 2000 miles away. It took 6 months to get through that fantasy life and realize he didn't want to lose me and our two boys and his real life. The last two were Nov 2011 to March 2012, when I finally caught on, then no contact for 8 months that I can see and this is what he says also, and then started up again, Nov 2012 to March 2013. Why? because there was really no closure from the 2011 affair (same OW)

He too told me the first time in 1997, he really didn't think of it as cheating, although he went to great lengths to hide it. The last two times with the same OW started much the same way, and accelerated fast again even the time this year when he told each other they were just going to be friends and were not going to get into the romance and sexting again.

He doesn't see it, but she always had some type of problem that he wanted to help her with, support her through etc. health problems, work problems, husband problems . She had him hooked as her white knight. Afterward I told him, doesn't it seem like she has a lot pf problems? and shouldn't her own H be supporting her with these? Of course she painted her H as a non-caring, not around guy.

The point is, because it is not IRL you never know the whole story, you never get past that first date, beginning phase where everything is perfect rainbows. He still believes she is a really nice person.
Really? not to me! She participated in the deceit as much as he did. What does that make her? He blames himself for dragging her back in. I say they are both adults, and are both to blame. I will probably never convince him otherwise.

Most of the books don't deal with the online affair. Their definition of an EA is a local infatuation that is never consummated. My H's online affairs WERE consummated in their heads and hearts through phone sex, sexting and pictures sent to each other.

So, while I am 95% sure it is over, for good, now I have to live with this feeling that it could happen again, no matter how small the odds, it is looming there now, who knows for how long. This to me, is worse than something that ended IRL>


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Busy.....well when you put it like that you are right because they would make all imagined acts "perfect". Good point. 

The sped at which online affairs progress is mind boggling. I too have been haunted by the emails and declarations of love that they declared for each other. That goes back to my remark about how overnight they are attached but have never interacted in the real world and yet "value" the virtual love over the real flesh and blood people they created a life with. Their definition of love and loyalty is built on vapors of texts and lots of role playing.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I see a difference between an 'online EA' and sex chatting/sending naked pics/mutual masturbation. What my husband did I consider to be a PA even though they never met in person. It was all about the sex - the titillation, the mind-movie material. To me, an EA is an emotional relationship, which he never really developed except with one of these 'women' who probably weren't even really women. Both are definitely cheating.

As for 'help' getting over it, to me it's just like getting over any cheating. The WS has to do the same things if R is to happen, and if they won't then R can't happen. My husband treated internet porn and sex sites as the OW - complete no contact is now the rule, he had to open up his passwords and everything to me, etc. so I could verify he wasn't acting out any more. 

My full story is in the link in my sig.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

My H said , while the virtual' sex was fun, he liked the fantasy, but, really wanted the contact with her more, they were friends. He liked the ego boost, talking with her was easy etc. I don't really think he is a sex or porn addict.

I should note the first time we were not in a good place in our marriage. Not communicating well at all. Then during the 8 months of no contact, we really worked at it, he did his share to prove he wanted only me and we had a great year, or most of it. 

This last time when they wanted to be just friends, but couldn't keep their 'hands' off each other really hurt me and he knows it, feels terrible for all the pain. The OW apologized too. It wasn't technically a PA, but the intent was there, so more than an EA, but less than a true physical, hurts just the same to me.


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## Quiet girl (Jan 31, 2013)

I would never do this to my husband of 19yrs or have any interest of going online to speak with a ghost, why? Because I love my husband. His face, his touch,his hard work that he has done for me and his children, etc, but he did it to me. Whats worst, this was his 1st gf and he told her he had loved her for 28yrs and is with me because of my kids. We been married for 19yrs and he had a previous wife before me. He also sent her and her daughter money in the Philipines, said he loved her body, and they both talked about me saying Im fat, telling her he regrets marrying me because Im Hispanic. Turn this around, what if this happened to you. Are you going to forgive your wife and say, ahh, its just a EA.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

daggeredheart said:


> my therapist felt like on the scale of adultery it bled less and was more pathetic for lack of a better word.
> 
> Care to share your experience?


My MC was the same. She felt that my husband being in love with a woman over 1000 miles away was no threat to me and was on the scale of watching porn. I felt it was a betrayal worse than if he had just F'ed some random stranger. 

I didn't find it pathetic. I found it was a betrayal of all we had built in the first 2 years of our marriage and the 7 years of our relationship (we'd been together 7 years when he had the EA). 

I'm pretty sure when I start my IC that my therapist is going to feel what I've done is worse than that stupid EA 4 years ago.. we'll see.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Elly,

I could have written your post word for word, just change the main actors to a damsel in distress in Iran and a shy introverted IT guy who swoops in to save the day. They planned a way for her to escape Iran and finish up her degree in the US. I read a few of their exchanges after I busted them and it reminded me of high school love. On her end it practically was since she was only 24.

They swooned, fawned, declared undying love till the end of time and she promised to wait for him till he exercised himself from his wife, kids, mortgages, etc....all in the span of a two week long online romance. Two weeks!!!!!! That's how quickly that fire can take hold. 

Currently we just graduated from a year and half of marriage counseling due to this. Therapist asked spouse how his feelings about his marriage are on a 1-10 scale compared to d-day. He said at a 10 now, totally content but when he was in the EA he was a 3. She asked what improved it so much...he replied nightly cuddles and that I greet him when he comes home from work....things so simple yet he drove us in the ditch for easily fixable needs.....but I suspect he manufactured petty complaints to justify his love of being pursued by a young exotic chick from a forbidden land.

To make it so Shakespearean he "had" to go NC at the peak of the infatuation. Fights hadn't happened yet. Cultural differences not apparent and they hadn't even got to sexual likes or dislikes. He did get to see her nearly nude body as she sent those under the guises of "how does this outfit look?" Outfit being bra/panties. 

I think he still plays the what if game in his head.....what would life be like if I had picked her??? Like the feelings are barely contained and if he dwells on it, it could reignite the desire to fish for her. 

I fished for her several months back and she had changed her status to "in a relationship". Oh how soon they find a new soulmate. No doubt someone to get her out of her country. 

I don't know what's worse, dealing with the marial repair aspect or feeling like I'm married to someone who displayed a concerning break with reality....like erotomania.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Ella......I'm pretty sure he doesn't fish but how could he not be curious. I would think I would be if I had experienced that intense infatuation. If he did he would see that he was replaced rather quickly if her status is believed and I can't believe I just wrote that. Believing that it must be true cause it was on the Internet!!! 

Or he was totally catfished. In some ways it would seem easier if they had meet their online loves maybe it would have burned out and be buried, case closed. Glad she was so far away that it was impossible.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Ea's are sooo hard to pin down, especially if they are not the classic, "someone I met at work type", even then I am trying so hard to understand how spouses can lie to themselves and say this person is "just a friend" anybody see other threads about this type of topic on this forum?


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

In spite of the differences between EAs and PAs...they are the same in that they steal energy away from the marriage...in that the WS is investing more time and emotions. Remind me of the parable of The Pearl of Great Price...about a dude that sells everything to acquire that ONE valuable thing that makes everything pale in comparison.

My wife who is a sex addict, discovered that online gaming such as World of Warcraft or Guild Wars 2 was a perfect outlet to act out. You get a lot of control over your privacy, but at the same time, interact with other players in these very expansive and intricate games...where you can really customize your character. She went from that to the chat features alot on the game, then advanced to ventrilo voice chat...getting involved with sexual chats and discussions involving mutual masturbation. She never wanted to get personal...as she is a sex addict, not love addict, but as the OM got more attached, she had to expose more about herself in order to string them along. I was happy to hear that. :scratchhead: Soon, she was making phone calls and sending e-mails. One guy she almost got on a plane for...and another guy, she says meant nothing, but I see on her web searches looking up if online affairs ever work out...or she had types up a document going over plusses and minuses of having a relationship with another guy. We are divorcing, so now its all moot...but I still burn when I know she is still lying to me. I guess what I am saying is that is whether EA or PA...control has been lost...and they are unsafe to anyone in their perimeter.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

The net can be a infinite playground for any type of acting out. It's all fun and games while it's online but how successful can the "love" be once they transition to real life? Dishonesty is so common, false pictures or at least the most flattering shots are shared. Hyping up or faking one's bio to seem like a catch. In short online chemistry doesn't always work once they meet. 

Even with all that said, the results are the same, a heartbroken spouse who can't make heads or tails of how this all happened. 

For those who are dealing with a online gaming addiction affair..there is a support board for that at online gamers anonymous.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Escapes- 

One of the subjects I've been tackling is feeling like he was "escaping" from our life. First the ipad game, followed by the online affair via the game. One led to the other. On D-day I felt a punch to the gut that the life I was content with was seen as a prison he needed to "free" himself from. How could our perceptions be so different?? I've struggled with that concept ever since. 

Currently he seems and says he's totally happy and content but to me the marriage is the same with some slight improvements in meeting needs. 

Obviously I'm not as happy because I'm dealing with the heartbreak/forgiving process but the point is that it's not a huge difference....it's a perception difference. The marriage he wanted to escape from is the same marriage he now wants to stay in........it can be mind blowing to wrap your head around. 

Example, we watched the Oklahoma tornado disaster unfolding and the sad stories of the children killed in the storms. He said, "If I had lost my kids in the storm, I think I would just kill myself",....and I thought to myself, well little over a year ago you were willing to lose your kids and leave them to chase a girl across the world"........ it's hard for me to accept the differences in his behavior from a year ago to the current. 

Hope that makes sense.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

My H keeps trying to tell me that this year when he cheated with the same OW online was not like last year (they had 8 mos of NC) because they were not seeking each other out every possible second, they were texting less often, never while at home anymore, apparently unlike the last time, and knew they would never meet IRL. This last time he was not finding excuses to go out so he could text/sext with her or stay out longer than needed for work to do so.

To me, since I will never know the real extent of all that, it seems just as bad as before. I tell him the fact that we were supposed to be in R and he went ahead and rekindled it, actually makes it worse for me and him telling me it wasn't as intense for him does not make it any better for me. I think it just makes it easier for him to allay the guilt. 

And the why? why? would you risk this again? He has no good answer, he was curious, he didn't mean to, it was the fantasy etc.


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## EverRain (Jun 6, 2012)

Here are some quotes from my WH who had an online EA in a private chat room connected to the game he was playing.

" It wasn't real"

" I didn't think it would ever affect our life " 

" It was just a game" 

" You give so much power to something I gave so little too, there was no truth to anything in that, I never thought it had anything to do with real life....... I am very sorry and I was stupid for not thinking of consequences, but no you are and always have been everything to me..... And you always will be..... I hate that everthing you know is true can be douted now by something that was so far from what u think it was. I love you. 


That's how he views what he did, I would love to believe he wasn't feeling anything, but it just doesn't add up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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