# Update



## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I've been gone for a bit. My BS filed for D a month ago. We talked and after I agreed that if that is what she thought she needed to be happy I wouldn't fight her. She asked about taking the kids out of state to live with her where her family is. I said OK as I would move there too.

She was shocked. I told her I wanted to be close to the kids. Staying in our house meant nothing if her and kids weren't there with me.

I've been working on myself. I know I was horribly selfish. I had an A with no regard for what it would do to my wife and kids. I was only thinking about how it made me feel. Why was it OK for me to feel this way? Still working on that. 

I've also found I'm very controlling. Not a, you do this now kind of controlling. Mine was controlling by omission. When we were dating we would work on Friday, drive 7 hours, see her family sat and leave Sunday about 4, drive home in time to go to bed and get up for work on Monday. As we had kids, I got more and more hey let's not go because x,y,z lame excuse. I realize this was also a horrible thing I did. I'm working on this as well.

I've apologized more times than I can count, have told BS how much I realize how unsafe a partner I've been. My heart aches when I think about what I've put her through. I still battle guilt/pity. That is getting better every day.

My BS says she is happy with the changes she has seen in me so far. I've got work yet to do though.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Keep it up man. It's all you can do at this point. Put the past where it belongs in the past and start being the better man. Living in the past can inhibit your future. Just do not regress and give her space.

Good luck.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm sorry it worked out this way. You really do deserve it, and I know you now get that your slvt wasn't worth it, but I think you're a decent guy. 

A guy with some issues, but a decent guy.

And I hope you realize that your ex gf isn't a prize, she's just a piece of trash that fvcked a married man and helped to wreck his family and his kids lives. What does that say about her?

Keep doing what you're doing, make sure your divorce agreement is fair, coparent with your ex wife, and keep improving yourself. 

You'll be a better guy, if not for her then for another good woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Life...oh, don't worry. I know my exgf is not worth it. I don't know that I'm much better for having an A with her. My BS is who I know I was meant to be with. I've screwed that up and now it may not happen. Probably won't happen, but I will not give up all hope until she tells me she has met someone new and it's serious. Then I'll have to tell myself that it is 100% over.

Until then yes I'll keep being better for my kids and myself. And maybe, just maybe she will see the new me and give me one more chance.

We have talked, and we both agree that growing old without each other seems not right. So that's my 1/2 of 1% I'll hope for is enough to keep a small ember burning.

Thank you for encouragement and the 2x4 when it's needed. I'm sure I'll need both in the coming months as living without her gets closer to happening.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Best wishes to you, your wife and your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

At some point you stop appologizing and move on from that. 

It never hurts to apologize. That's what real men do.

But never dwell on the past to much.

Your actions will speak louder than any apology ever could.


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

Why were you driving 14 hours every weekend? Was someone dying?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Not every weekend. Sorry if it sounded like that. But once every 5-6 weeks so she could see her family.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Hi Homer, sorry to hear that things are moving toward D for you. 

Somehow I think I remember that your BW finally called it a day because she discovered you in an EA for the years after your PA with your ex. Is that you or another poster? 

If it's you, then she is probably worn out from trying with you. She just has a constant broken heart and can't heal. Now she needs to regroup and get herself back. If you do all the work now, you two might have a shot after the D, however. It certainly appears that she is done doing the work herself.

(Again, if that wasn't you, please disregard my comment.)


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Nope, all my crap came at one time, and I've been transparent since. I didn't do any work on myself though and I believe that has contributed to my current situation.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Sorry about the mixup. I do think, though, that filing for D while in your A might have had long term effects on her. Did she talk about that as important in her decision? (Did I get that wrong, too?)


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

She has never mentioned that. All she has said is she is good for a while, and then it hits her.

I know that this is fairly common with BS. No triggers per SE, just it comes back around. I've told her about some forums to check out so she can talk to other BS. Maybe if she sees that what she is going thru isn't unnatural it will help.

I don't know if she is using them, just gave the info and let it go.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> At some point you stop appologizing and move on from that.
> 
> It never hurts to apologize. That's what real men do.
> 
> ...


 The best apology is better behavior

Keep up the improvements Homer either way you know they will pay off

55


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I do my best to not dwell on what I did. Most of my apologies now are for all the crap we are going thru now (selling house, moving, etc.). Which I know all stem from my A. I'm not forgetting what put me in the situation I'm in, just not letting it strangle me.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry to hear about D my friend.

Never lose hope. Maybe someday you start dating each other. 

Nice thing you decided to move closer to your kids (maybe even your wife). 

She will be in your life for a long time,so try and be at least a good friend to her. You still have children together and one day grandchildren.

Stay strong and best wishes to you and your family.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks. That's the plan. We are using 1 attorney, doing week on week off with the kids when we get moved, etc.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ok...so the original plan next week was wife taking kids to her brothers for spring break. She is going to talk to school, check housing out, her schooling, etc. I have no problems with this. I'm planning on getting a bunch of things I want to sell put on line, etc. So having no one around wouldn't be a big deal.

Last night she tells me she wants to have her gf meet her halfway so her gf can bring kids home. She wants to go back down and spend a week at her mom's relaxing on the boat, and getting her head around everything that's going on. Just get away for a bit.

Inside I'm screaming WTF!! You just had girls weekend, spent last weekend doing your oil classes, now want to be gone for 2 weeks???? When are we supposed to be starting to pack things up to try selling house etc.???

I told her if that's what she thought she needed to do. She said she wanted my input. (Inside). Really? You have this all planned out and now want my input?
I told her we are not going to be living together soon so you need to do what you think is best. Kids came downstairs and we didn't talk about it anymore.

She then tried to snuggle with me at night, but I was already out. I'd had a headache all day so when I hit the pillow I was gone.

Part of me says she is reconsidering D. Part of me says she is starting to waiver on D and wants a week with her mom (who doesn't like me BTW) to resteel herself to D.
Part of me is like what...5 weekends without seeing each other?? Part of me is hey you aren't going to be seeing her except dropping off/picking up kids if that so shut up and get used to it.

Confused mess today. I think i have to keep going like D is happening, take the next 2 weeks as this is what life is going to be like and learn from it. Ty for letting me vent. 

Oh, and we scheduled dinner night the Friday after she gets back after kids went back upstairs. Ugh!


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Homer j said:


> When are we supposed to be starting to pack things up to try selling house etc.???
> 
> *I told her we are not going to be living together soon so you need to do what you think is best.*
> 
> ...


Homer, Of course you know you gave your wife a passive, dismissive answer. Sort of like " You do what you have to do". 

Why did you not just say, "ok, spend time with ____ and I will handle the house"?

Did you consider that each time she packs a box it will reminder her of what you did, that she is losing the house (home, really), that she hates having to do this and hates that you made this happen, etc. ? I am not trying hitting you below the gut here. ( I did that purposely in your other house selling post and you took the blow. I really respected you for that. ) I just suggest that you try to see things from her perspective before you speak or act. This move is emotionally tough on your wife. And you too, of course. 

I can understand you are confused and that one day you are hoping for R and the next day you know that D is inevitable. While, R can happen even after D and you might have better chance at that AFTER the move. 

Be understanding if the dinner date does not happen. Have no expectations and then if it does happen, great.

And if she wants to snuggle with you, you better darn well move mountains and do it. (Keep some red bull in the fridge if you need help staying awake or keep some Excedrin in the medicine chest. ) 

Good luck.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty blue for pointing out a different response. That is what I should've said. I was focusing on not controlling it by saying no I don't want you to, or I think being gone as much as you have is enough, etc. Those are the responses I used to give, or guilt her into doing what I wanted.

It all came out of nowhere, and when I get caught off guard I have a tendency to resort back to old ways, which I know are not what I want. Still learning.

Ty for insight. This is what I was hoping for.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Ty blue for pointing out a different response. That is what I should've said. I was focusing on not controlling it by saying no I don't want you to, or I think being gone as much as you have is enough, etc. Those are the responses I used to give, or guilt her into doing what I wanted.
> 
> It all came out of nowhere, and when I get caught off guard I have a tendency to resort back to old ways, which I know are not what I want. Still learning.
> 
> Ty for insight. This is what I was hoping for.


FWIW, i probably would have given the same response you did. It's easy to second guess someone when you are not the one in their shoes. 

Only advice I can give is that you take a deep breath and pause a few seconds before giving an emotional response. Or, just think for a minute and ask yourself what is the answer she wants to (or needs to) hear from me. Or, think that she is testing you (maybe for good reasons, not just playing games) and give the answer that is best for BOTH of you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She might be getting you and her used to the idea of NOT bring together to ease gently into the idea of divorce. (Yeah, like that would work!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thought about that too.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Well, tonight she basically is second guessing herself. She isn't sure if she goes to final is she screwing up her life or not. Doing everything that needs to get done isn't going smoothly like she was expecting, etc.

I held her while she cried, told her it will be OK that we will get it figured out.

Is there more I can do? I feel like crap cause I did this, and made her feel like this was her only option. Now she is upset at this option too.

Thoughts welcome.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Homer, Of course you know you gave your wife a passive, dismissive answer. Sort of like " You do what you have to do".
> 
> Why did you not just say, "ok, spend time with ____ and I will handle the house"?


And be willing to do it for her, because this is the consequence of your actions. It is better that you bear the brunt of the consequences. One of the horrid things about being a betrayed spouse is having to deal with the consequences of a spouse's behavior that you had absolutely no control over and hate.



Homer j said:


> I held her while she cried, told her it will be OK that we will get it figured out.


You did exactly the right thing. You are there for her and you've got her back. That's what she really needs from you right now.




blueinbr said:


> And if she wants to snuggle with you, you better darn well move mountains and do it. (Keep some red bull in the fridge if you need help staying awake or keep some Excedrin in the medicine chest. )


Absolutely. If she is reaching out to you, you have to be there for her if you are ever to earn her trust back. The best times to do that are when it is hard or inconvenient for you. If you knew she was snuggling up, you were aware enough to wake yourself up and respond to her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> And be willing to do it for her, because this is the consequence of your actions. It is better that you bear the brunt of the consequences. One of the horrid things about being a betrayed spouse is having to deal with the consequences of a spouse's behavior that you had absolutely no control over and hate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Possible that she was thinking he'd stay up for his gf.

That's where wounded minds go, which is why it's so important to be there if she reaches out.

I think she's mourning what she thought her life would be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

[She then tried to snuggle with me at night, but I was already out. I'd had a headache all day so when I hit the pillow I was gone.]

Better start using your head here. Do not let the old you automatically kick in.

Don't miss those golden opportunities in the future.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

She told me she tried to snuggle this morning. I didn't know it last night. I was out. Sorry if I wasn't clear. She asked if I wanted to get lucky, and I know I didn't hear that or hell yes I would've responded.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Hey man, there's always tonight. Make it a good one for her.

Show her what she's got. Women like a lot of attention and affection no wham bam.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Homer j said:


> She told me she tried to snuggle this morning. I didn't know it last night. I was out. Sorry if I wasn't clear. She asked if I wanted to get lucky, and I know I didn't hear that or hell yes I would've responded.


Tell her that you will make it up to her tonight and if that happens again, she can wake you up. 
You showed her that you didn't want her. It will take a lot of making up to show her that she is the only one that you want. Make sure you use lots of words of affirmation telling her she is beautiful, the love of your life, the only one you want, etc. Tell her specifically what you desire about her. Do not use comparative language unless she has told you she wants to hear it. Things like, "you're the best ____."


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks for insight.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ok so I've done some reading on passive aggressive behavior. My question is this: When my wife tells me something that isn't what I want, like, etc. How do I respond? I am understanding PA behavior isn't right, but I don't want to sound selfish, or controlling either. I'm trying not to lie about anything, so I think just putting a "fake smile" on and saying that's fine by me isn't right either.

I'm sure I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be. I also know I'm hypersensitive to these things now that I'm aware I have these issues.

Insight appreciated.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Here's another question. Wife and kids have been gone since Friday. Last night she asked me how my day went. I said OK, which was a flat out lie. It sucked. I watched some movies, and every one of them had something that triggered losing something. That wasn't what the movies were about, but that's how it hit me.

Why didn't I tell her it sucked? Cause when I do she says I'm sorry, feels bad, etc. I'm supposed to be supportive right? Not being supported. I wanted to tell her being alone all day was horrible, but then I think if I do I'm being selfish and making it about me, so I tell her something else.

My boundaries on this stuff is a mess right now. Thanks for insight.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You're supposed to honest.

You're supposed to be vulnerable.

You're supposed to do and say all the things that let her know how much you mean to her, and how much it would hurt if she decided to walk away from you forever.

BE. HONEST.

The next time you see her, tell her that you lied, and tell her why.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

A simple response could have been "I had a really tough day". It's on her if she wants to ask you why. If she does, use it as an opportunity to apologize (again). "I was missing you, a lot of things reminded me of the loss today. I know I put us in this place, and I'm so sorry, I just miss you. That's all".


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Here's another question. Wife and kids have been gone since Friday. Last night she asked me how my day went.


You could say " I've had better days" or "As good as can be expected" or the simple "so-so"


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I think at one time or another every guy needs to read and understand this. Why? Every woman wants a strong man. 

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=ROKMSANTDSGehBKU4MHk5XvYcwc-


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> You're supposed to honest.
> 
> You're supposed to be vulnerable.
> 
> ...


This!

I've been in R for 12 years and my W just wants me to be honest with her...about everything. Trust is that important. 

Tell her how you feel about stuff. I understand you don't want to be a burden and men don't necessarily need to talk about everything, but if you want to connect with her you need to communicate with her. Holding everything in and just dealing with everything yourself got you involved in an affair. 

If she asks you a question and you find that it is one of those areas where you used to be controlling then give her your preference and let her choose. A simple "I'd prefer you didn't do that, but I'll be ok if you do it or not and support you either way."

It sounds like she is questioning her decision to D. I think that's good but, Homer, do you want this marriage or not? 

Why? 

And be honest with us.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Yes I want to stay married. I love my wife. I love my kids. I'm happiest when we are all together. We can be watching a movie, or whatever.

I enjoy spending time with my wife. The last few months have really opened my eyes on a lot of things that I can do better to make life better for my wife.

I talked with my IC today and he agreed that over the phone I did the right thing by not telling her I had a bad day, as I don't want to seem manipulative. When I see her again he said to tell her it was tough not having her or the kids around. Tell her I wanted her to enjoy her time with family (which is true), and didn't want to spoil anything. I made it thru OK, so its fine. That way I am being honest with her, without any possibility of giving a controlling selfish vibe.

I agree with all of your insights if she was here, and I will work on those kinds of responses. I guess I'm trying to look at this as a growth opportunity for me. I need to be able to live on my own, and not depend on her like I have been. If I can do this I can take on more responsibility in the daily stuff so she has more free time to do what she wants.

I want to be able to cook some dinners and stuff like that. Laundry, cleaning the house, I've been doing those since we dated, so those are no issue.

Ty all for thoughts. They are very helpful.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Stop hedging your bets and go all in.

Don't guilt her or come across as weepy or needy, but give her no reason to doubt that you desire her w/ every fiber of your being. 

You've spent too long being dishonest w/ your wife. That needs to end.

She has enough reasons to doubt your sincerity. Don't give her more.

Give her no reason to call you uncommitted or to claim that you're not fighting or not fighting hard enough for the marriage.

It's a fine line to walk, but you need to find it, and stick to it.

And how much experience does your IC have as an MC? Or w/ infidelity?

I'm betting not much of either.

Oh, and something else?

Your wife needs to know that you're choosing HER.

Not the house.

Not your income or retirement.

Not even the kids or the family unit.

HER.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I see your wife wanting to snuggle as really positive. A woman doesn't want to snuggle with someone she is indifferent to.
I think you have a real shot at reconciliation, IF you let this woman know how sorry you are, how much you want her to stay, and show your humility. If you get some sex, make it all about her. She will likely think to herself "why didn't he do this all along???" You head her off at the pass and say when it's all over " I was am idiot for not being like this all along". But don't say it of you don't mean it.

I hope you remember how close you came to losing your family when she gives you another chance. It sounds like she wants to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Could you talk a bit about what you meant by passive-aggressive behavior?. What you are describing doesn't sound to me like classic P-A. Not telling her that you were hurting because you wanted her to have a good time while she was away isn't manipulative, in my opinion.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

After my dday I was prepared to move heaven and earth to save the marriage. 

I left no room for doubt. I was going to fight for it until the bitter end. Like Gus said, total commitment to her and the M.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Trying to really focus on my whys. Here are the questions I've asked myself and my replies to said questions.

Why did you think an A was OK?
It wasn't OK. I did it because I was feeling unwanted and unappreciated. 

Why didn't you discuss these feelings with your wife?
Because talking with her at that time wasn't comfortable. I thought anything I said would be viewed as attacking, so I didn't say anything.

Why was talking to your wife uncomfortable?
Because at that time I had not been 100% open with her about my feelings, so how can I be comfortable with her if I'm not open 100%.

Why not?
Because my XGF who I was 100% open with crushed me. In hindsight I guarded myself so I wouldn't get hurt like that again. When I think back I can almost remember telling myself to not let my guard down. This was when we were first dating. I thought I had let myself open to her. Looking back it's apparent I didn't. This was not fair to my wife at all. I'm working hard to be vulnerable with her. With a D in process it's not easy, but I'm trying.

I know the A itself was very selfish. When I try asking myself why are you selfish I get.....crickets chirping.

I know this is a personality trait I need to and am working on. Is it a thought process though? Do people actual, stop and think, no I'm going to be selfish about this, or its about me when an A starts?

Are the questions I've asked myself even the right questions? My brain feels like scrambled eggs right now, so I have no idea. I've thought on these for a long time, but this is the first time writing them down.

Looking for constructive guidance. I want to be a safe partner. I want to be the person I know I can be. I'm not afraid to look deep and fix myself. I just have no clue if I'm on the right track or not.

What did other WS ask themselves to get started? I'm guessing there is more than one branch of this I need to be looking into as well.

Ty for insight.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Say "I missed you and the kids."

Then see if you and they could watch the same movie or TV show at the same time so you could indulge in a bit of remote bonding.

Even touch the screen at the same moment. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Trying to really focus on my whys. Here are the questions I've asked myself and my replies to said questions.
> 
> Why did you think an A was OK?
> It wasn't OK. * I did it because I was feeling unwanted and unappreciated. *
> ...


Hi Homer,

Sorry that I cannot give any insight. Why? I followed the same path as you for my EA. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. I don't buy the line that we are defective or have character flaws. Yes, we have plenty to do to fix ourselves but we are fixable. You are truly remorseful and that is critical. 

I wish you luck and progress on your journey.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Homer j said:


> Trying to really focus on my whys. Here are the questions I've asked myself and my replies to said questions.
> 
> Why did you think an A was OK?
> It wasn't OK. I did it because I was feeling unwanted and unappreciated.
> ...


You are playing games in order to protect yourself from further hurt. You cannot do that if you want to save your marriage. Stop the games, be open and willing to expose your soft underbelly. That is the only way. Be willing to be hurt again by your W, you have to heal her.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

I similarly, had a previous relationship go bad that left me a complete mess. The ex still had her tendrils in me almost 20 years later.

Unbeknownst to me it left me mentally and emotionally with no way to really be intimate and vulnerable with my W. It was slowly destroying the marriage. I foolishly thought the problems were hers not mine. Hah! 

If she is willing to listen, I would talk to your W on occasion about what you are learning in IC. I think the only chance you have to fix this is to be vulnerable and honest with her. People grow by experiencing pain and suffering. Opening yourself up to it is an opportunity for growth. Keep that in mind.

If you still have trouble talking about these things with her, then maybe you should journal and let her read it on occasion.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

aine said:


> You are playing games in order to protect yourself from further hurt. You cannot do that if you want to save your marriage. Stop the games, be open and willing to expose your soft underbelly. That is the only way. Be willing to be hurt again by your W, you have to heal her.


 @aine OP may not understand this. I certainly don't. Can you explain this a little differently so that a wayward guy (or guys if you include me) can understand? I thought OP had a good post that indicated he is doing self reflection. Evidently you feel otherwise. Thanks.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Not being open and honest is the opposite, it is being closed and dishonest (if I may). It is a dance, a game that many of us do, why? In order to protect the heart, the emotions, I call it the soft underbelly. 

He said he wasn't 100% honest with his feelings to his wife (because of past experience with XGF). It was not fair to cut his wife out of his heart (for something someone else did). His W probably hurt him too, his solution, an A, instead of honesty about how he was hurt. We all do it. 

A major need for most spouses (women in particular) is openness, transparency and honesty. He admitted he wasn't any of those things because of his past. If things are to change, that is what he needs to be. I realise it is tough for a man to expose their underbelly esp to someone who has the potential to hurt them, he needs to if the marriage is to survive this.

Changing the dance, the game after many years is one thing for the Op, for the BW it is perhaps too late, she will need to see action, a change. He wasn't honest when she asked how he was doing, imo not a great start. 

is that better?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I don't think I am playing games. These aren't conscious decisions anyway.

Like Tron said. My XGF wrecked me 20 years ago. I didn't know her tendrils were still in me either. I'm aware of them know and am working on picking them out.

"Just be open and vulnerable". I'm trying to do that. I'm finding I've got 20 years of scar tissue to get thru. It's not easy, but I'm trying. 

I haven't really spoken to her in a week and a half. Yes I have texted, told her night, I miss you and I love you. Why haven't I talked with her? Because she said she wanted time to think about things. I'm respecting her. It's killing me but I'm doing it.

I have no idea where she is at with us. She may not care at all when she comes home. If she does seem to care, yes I'll tell her what I think I've found. I don't know if what I've found is worth squat though.

Have I really made any progress? I don't know anymore. A month or so ago when I " got it" it felt like I had. Now on working on why I did this, it feels like I'm not gaining anything. I've realized I'm a horrible partner. I don't like it and I'm trying to fix it. I know I'm better than what I was 6 months ago, but that's not making me feel any better.

I know I have a lot to do. I feel like I'm at a crossroads with 8 options and no clue which one to take next.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Aine...Ty that makes sense. I'm trying to do just those types of things. I've told my wife if I don't give an answer right away if she asks me something, it's because I'm wanting to make sure it's not a selfish response. I had to explain that I want to make sure I'm not thinking of just me. She is OK with that.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Homer j said:


> "Just be open and vulnerable". I'm trying to do that. I'm finding I've got 20 years of scar tissue to get thru. It's not easy, but I'm trying.
> 
> I haven't really spoken to her in a week and a half. Yes I have texted, told her night, I miss you and I love you. Why haven't I talked with her? Because she said she wanted time to think about things. I'm respecting her. It's killing me but I'm doing it.
> 
> ...


This is good stuff Homer. Stick with it. Keep working on it. It isn't often that we humans just have a hallelujah moment where the skies open up and everything is apparent.



Homer j said:


> I know I have a lot to do. I feel like I'm at a crossroads with 8 options and no clue which one to take next.


Hmmm. Not sure about this. 

Sounds like regardless of how things turn out with the M, you are semi-prepared to follow the W and kids.

The real decision is whether to fight for the M or not. Am I wrong?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm fighting for it. The crossroads are the steps to self improvement. Sounds like I'm on the right path, just not sure how to proceed when it seems like I'm not getting anywhere on thought processes.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Homer j said:


> I'm fighting for it. The crossroads are the steps to self improvement. Sounds like I'm on the right path, just not sure how to proceed when it seems like I'm not getting anywhere on thought processes.


It helps if you can clarify your priorities. I assume your kids are top priority and everything else has to fit into what is best for them. I'd start there. Next is your personal health and wellbeing. What would best keep you in a state of emotional, physical, and spiritual health?
Finally, have some grace with yourself. Sometimes there is more than one right answer. Pick which one seems best to you or if they all seem the same, pick the easiest or cheapest. The hardest thing is not always the best. Nor is the most expensive always the best.
Try not to make decisions out of fear, but to make them with a sense of destiny and purpose.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks Cynthia.

Yes I have a lot on my plate right now and it's not helping. I did ask my wife if we are moving even if she stops D and she said yes she would still want to move.

So besides the normal everyday stuff, I've also got looking for a job out of state, cleaning/packing stuff to move, trying to get the house ready to sell, and work on myself, and pay more attention to my wife.

I've been just trying to focus on what is right in front of me, but I have to start looking out further so I have a job, etc.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

If you are fighting for it then the path is to take the steps necessary for self improvement. 

It's simple really. 

1. Better man
2. Better dad
3. Better husband
4. Better at your job

Work out. Work hard at the office. Get your $hit together. Continue the daily texts to her. Talk to your kids every night. Start reading. There are some really good books out there about relationships and what it takes to be a good partner. I'd start with How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. Then you can move on to books about how to communicate more effectively with your W. His Needs Her Needs, 5 Love Languages that kind of thing.

In a few days, when you hit the 2 week mark I suggest you text a simple request "Can we talk sometime?" 

If she is amenable, absolutely don't be pushy, don't be demanding, don't be controlling, don't be manipulative. Be matter of fact and fill her in on what you are doing and what you are learning about yourself, what's going on in IC, what you have learned about marriage and what's required to have a good one, etc. Don't make promises and don't linger on the phone. If she listens but doesn't want to talk then thank her for listening schedule another call a week later.

To reconnect you are going to have to reestablish a dialogue. Something safe.

You might also spend some time working on an apology that's real, that's reflective, that recognizes and acknowledges your failures in the marriage.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Homer j said:


> Thanks Cynthia.
> 
> Yes I have a lot on my plate right now and it's not helping. I did ask my wife if we are moving even if she stops D and she said yes she would still want to move.
> 
> ...


That can certainly be overwhelming. Take one thing at a time.
You might be interested in this method.
Make a list of everything you need to get done. Break it down into days. Each day do one thing for a set amount of time, then go talk a short walk, take a bathroom break, whatever, then go to the next item on the list, whether the first item is done or not. Scratch off completed tasks as you go. When you get to the end of the list, go back and start over with things you have not yet completed. That way you get things done and are focused on one thing at a time.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Homer, Make sure you get enough sleep. That will be hard to do with all the work and emotional stress but without that everything else will collapse. You can hit the gym after the move and after you have a new job. 

Do you know where you will live in the new state?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

There are workouts you can do at home. This is a short workout that I do three times a week, then I do another one three other days. But if you were to do this at least three days per week, it would help. The whole thing only takes 20 minutes. I just pull up the page on my website where I have the workout posted and do it at home.
Here's my workout: 7 Minute Workout Video | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Tron... She will be home this weekend, and before she left the Friday after she gets back is supposed to be date night.

Blue.. Yes we at least know where we are moving. Only thing I do know.

Cynthia...I do make a list and try to do just a couple things a day to try and focus. I'm thinking getting things done to move is going to happen. It's trying to find time to still work on me. I don't want to stop the boulder now that it's moved.

Ty all for suggestions. The weight isn't quite as bad this afternoon.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> There are workouts you can do at home. This is a short workout that I do three times a week, then I do another one three other days. But if you were to do this at least three days per week, it would help. The whole thing only takes 20 minutes. I just pull up the page on my website where I have the workout posted and do it at home.
> Here's my workout: 7 Minute Workout Video | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World



I don't look good in yoga pants.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You do not need yoga pants to do this workout! lol
Try it. It's fun! And it's good for you.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I'll look into it. It says feminine, so maybe I have to channel my inner Richard Simmons to get the full effect?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Homer j said:


> I'll look into it. It says feminine, so maybe I have to channel my inner Richard Simmons to get the full effect?


lol 
I admit that the website is directed at women, but quite a few men read my articles. I think most of the things I post are relatable to men and women equally well. The workout is good for anyone wanting a quick, effective, and efficient workout. I highly recommend it. In fact, I'm going to it right now, then get busy on my to-do list.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Homer j

I wanted to give you a short encouragement. I realize it "feels" like you don't know what you're doing and like the path ahead of you is unclear, but that's actually kind of a good sign!

In the past, you felt comfortable on your path because you had been on that path before and it was "familiar"--thus if you felt comfortable on your path now, you'd be doing the same old thing but hoping for a result (and we all know that's crazy!). 

The fact that you feel uncomfortable means you are doing something new and it doesn't feel quite natural yet! But that's a very good indicator that you're doing something new, and doing something different is the way you grow as a person. 

Likewise, since it seems like your path is unclear, that means that instead of walking on a path that is familiar and known by you, you are walking on a whole new path! Again, it may feel unknown and scary to you but it's actually a VERY good sign that you are walking a new road. 

So even though it feels unnatural now, just remember: whenever a person starts a new habit, the OLD habit is the one that feels natural--and the new habit feels like it's unnatural and difficult because it's different. Please encourage yourself that you are actually taking steps on your personal journey AND being brave enough to do things that are NEW. 

Finally, for me the most difficult part of recovery was letting someone inside to see the real me. I had some self-worth but in real life, deep down, I honestly thought that if I let someone in they would not want me. Of course, I constantly battle with that anyway, due to my past, so what I had to do was practice being open in little things. for example, if something really was not okay with me, I took a deep breath and said that it was not okay with me...but XYZ would be okay with me. Wonder of wonders--that worked and I wasn't just cast off! So @Homer j I encourage you to continue being brave!


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Homer j said:


> I don't look good in yoga pants.


What???!!!

Surely you can pull this off:


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty affair care.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

For gods sake man stay away from speedos too!!!!!


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> For gods sake man stay away from speedos too!!!!![/QUOTE
> 
> Dammit that's my go to attire. I'm done.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Well, it's been 3.5 days since my wife came back from seeing her family for 2 weeks. No change in the D. It's coming. Wife has set move target date she wants to be out of the house.

I've had a recruiter contact me for a position in the new state that I'm perfect for. He's getting a phone interview set up for tomorrow or Monday. If that goes well, I'm most likely driving down Thursday after work for a face to face interview on Friday.

Talked with the realator, know what we have to do to the house now to get it ready.

I'm ashamed to say I've given up on trying to stay married. I'm not embracing the D, but I'm not fighting it anymore. I stopped wearing my ring yesterday. Haven't told her I love you either. I feel like I should be doing those things, but with what's coming that I will not be able to avoid I can't focus on us.

I have to get a job and get the house ready to sell. I figure if I do get this job, by memorial day week I'll be starting down there. That only gives me 5-6 weeks to get the house ready, and everything ready to move.

I've been reading losts journal and that has been helpful with preparing myself to let go of things. I've always taken care of all the mechanical stuff. I told wife the other day when the oil change was due in her vehicle. If she wants me to do it I will be happy to do it, but she needs to start looking at mileage, etc. 

Today she got up when I did, so she had work stuff to do today outside the house. Normally I would ask, what she had going on today. I didn't. It was hard, to act like I don't care what she's doing. I know I have to though or it will kill me.

I do not like not telling her I love her. Its so hard to not say it. I feel like I'm failing her all over again and being selfish. 

I'm doing my best to make a list of 3-4 things I can do every night to get done and out of the way so I can focus on the house.

This whole thing sucks and I know it's my fault. I've done this to my family. I told her all I've wanted to do is protect her and the kids, keep them safe. I know I can't do it anymore. She cried and said that she knew that. She can see I love her, and that is why this decision was hard to make.

I fully believe when we are done it will be forever. She has a very outgoing personality, and I'm sure she will meet someone. I want her to be happy and safe. I'm trying to tell myself I'll meet someone else too, but all I see when I look in the mirror is someone who brings pain and hurt to people. Who would want that? I wouldn't.

I'm not giving up on someday being together, but I'm not pinning my hopes on it either. The fantasy bubble I had made hoping when she came home, she had a change of heart is gone. The realization that she will meet someone else is there. 

It's been 3.5 days and it feels like years sometimes.  Slow agony of watching my life crumble bit by bit. Watching and knowing I did it. I have no one to blame but myself.

I dont want pity. I don't want people saying I'm sorry, trying to make it better. I don't want anyone to take the pain. I have to work thru this. Somehow, someway. My kids are depending on me to be there for them. 

I need to teach my son how to not do what I've done. He holds his feelings in like I do/did. I don't want him to go thru what I am going thru and what I've put his mom thru. I need to teach my daughters to not let thier husband's do what I've done to them either.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Since you won't let me say "sorry" I will say that I understand you. I screwed up my life and my marriage too. You really owned what you did and stepped up, much better than I have. I have been watching and reading your threads and getting guidance on what I need to do. Yep, I know you are not the role model for remorseful waywards, but you nevertheless ARE HELPING some others here.

We know you will be a great man again and an awesome father to your kids.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You will get through this stronger than before. You are focused on being a good dad and a man of integrity. You are growing and learning. There are many women looking for that in a man. Unfortunately your wife is unable to move past what you did, but you understand that and own it, which is really good. That right there makes you a better man than you were. Keep up the good work. You are going to be okay.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Tonight taking wife and kids out to dinner. Wife won our NCAA basketball brackets so she gets to pick the restaurant.

I know this could possibly be the last time we go out as a family. I'm hoping I can enjoy the moment and not think that it's our last night out together and be miserable.

If I start down the dark path any suggestions on how to get back to enjoying the moment?

I'm sure there will be a lot more "last time" things coming up.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

You don't really know this is last time you go out with them (as "family" or just ex and kids), so don't fixate on this. Concentrate on the kids. You know this will not be the last time you have dinner with them.

Make sure the kids get dessert and share in their happiness. Keep smiling and be happy. It will be hard but you can do it.

Another poster told me today to put a rubber band on your wrist. If you start feeling sad or going down the dark path, snap the band to reminder yourself to STAY IN THE MOMENT.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Homer j said:


> Tonight taking wife and kids out to dinner. Wife won our NCAA basketball brackets so she gets to pick the restaurant.
> 
> I know this could possibly be the last time we go out as a family. I'm hoping I can enjoy the moment and not think that it's our last night out together and be miserable.
> 
> ...


Do not allow yourself to think that way today. If you spend your day in that mindset, it will ruin the time you have. If your mind starts going down a negative path, stop that thought and think of something entirely different. Don't try not to think of it, as that will cause you to think of it. Refocus your thoughts on something else. Have something in mind that you can go to.
If you are a Christian, you can use scripture to do this and it is highly effective. Here's a link to an article I wrote on this subject: How to Refocus Your Thoughts Using 3x5 Cards | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World

If you don't want to use scripture, you can use a poem or a saying that helps refocus your mind. The idea is to take hold of the negative thought and replace it with something uplifting.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks, I will try those.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Was her attitude/demeanor different when she came back from spending time with her family?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

IMO in order to move on with your life you're going to have to detach.

It'll be hard with the kids but just hanging on will prolong your stay in limbo and waste your time/life. It'll suck upfront.

You should be civil, respectfull but go no contact as much as possible. Just explain to her you both have to move on and only email or text concerning the kids. Get a gym membership, hobbies, etc. work on making yourself a better man for your next relationship. 

When your divorced she needs to own her part.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

That's the plan once we move. Separate places. Right now we are packing, prepping house to sell, kids finishing out school, etc.

She hasn't changed. We are both friendly. I've started detaching, (I think). Yes it sucks. She is doing it much easier than I am, or she isn't letting it show. I'm doing my best not to confide in her. When I do I stop myself and say no I can't talk right now.

She wants me to be able to talk to her, etc. I've said I know, but I can't right now. I'm realizing what a really good friend she has been on top of being my wife. Just having her to talk to is the hardest thing to give up right now.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

How's her family towards you? You'll be moving into their territory now.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Marc878 said:


> How's her family towards you? You'll be moving into their territory now.


But he won't be interacting with them much. Maybe birthdays, but that's about it.

When you move, it will be important to get connected and make new friends as quickly as possible. Join a gym and something else. Do you attend church? If so, do not attend the same church she does. It is easy to get connected in a church if you get involved in volunteering and getting to know people.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Her brother and SIL are fine. I wrote an apology letter and asked her to send to her family once we filed. Her SIL texted me and said they still loved me, and were sorry this happened.

Her mom on the other hand....let's just say that's not as nice.

Since we don't know where we are living yet we really haven't set to many boundaries in contact yet. We have a boat that if we both get apartments where are we going to park it. Her brother is OK with it being at his house, so that's where its going until we get settled. Same with tool boxes, etc. I'm sure I'll be getting a you store it place, but until I can get moved and situated I'll take what's offered.

Yes I do go to church. It's been a while since this all started. I will go again, once I get past the feeling of walking in and everyone seeing adulterer written on my forehead. I know it isn't, but that's just me right now.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

His kids will be around them more as will his wife. No doubt about that. He may not have much interaction directly but they can set the tone.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Homer j said:


> Thanks, I will try those.


Try reading Ellington Darn's " Living Longer Stronger: Your Second Middle Age.
Darden is an exercise physiologist ( PhD) who is a follower of Arthur Jones( inventor of Nautilus) and a former body builder.
He is an advocate of HIT ( High Intensity Training),and has a very effective program for building muscle for older guys with less time. He stresses weight resistance training with Nautilus, to absolute failure, but only doing one set and not resting between sets ( hence the Nautilus machines that do not require much time to set up). You really fly though your ten to twelve different machines, not resting, turning purple on the last couple reps ( no posing in front of mirrors or talking to your buddies etc, as we often see folks doing between sets).
Initially, if you can force yourself to put yourself in some discomfort with going to real failure( and, again, a machine like Nautilus vs free weights allows this with no spotter), you will be really spent. as with all workouts, eventually you acclimate, but must continue to progress with the resistance so you go to failure each time. Where you really acclimate is with your increased comfort level and mental toughness in relation to being in pain.
These are intense workouts, with, as I mentioned, non of the resting/socializing stuff going on, but , they take about 25-35 minutes and you can really build muscle ( the engine of all athletic feats, except, maybe the endurance stuff). And, by not resting , your heart rate stays up for the entire time, so you get cardio at the same time.
His research and that of others has debunked the effectiveness of cardio training without building muscle.
Men lose about 1% of their muscle mass each year past about 30 without resistance training of some sort. Muscle fiber cross sections of endurance only athletes show almost no difference, structurally, from those of sedentary men their age, whereas the cross sections of the resistance trainers, even in their 60's, are highly similar to a younger man's.
There is some guy all over youtube, about 52 or so, selling his routine for muscularity without cardio as the most effective for older guys. I suspect he incorporates Darden and Jones' strategies, perhaps with some variation.
Dr Bob Arnot, comments on this type of thing in his "Turning Back the Clock" book as well. He used to be a strictly endurance guy, chuckling as he would go by the weight room on his long runs etc. as he thought the weight lifters were foolish.
Then, he hit late 40's or so and could see the dramatic, more youthful differences in their physiques ( ever know some big time distance runners? Many times, as they age, they look older than their stated years. while their hearts and lungs are amazing, their joints and muscularity have had a toll taken).
I did this for about a year in my 40's and, occasionally, when I have time, go back to it. As I have aged and the importance of my appearance to me has lessened due to diminished sex drive, I have not done it as much( I also need time to devote to my particular sport, which, while helped by strength training to some extent, more closely resembles shooting pool and requires the acquisition of a certain skill set ,and an attempt to perfect the skills vs conditioning.)
Anyway, I got really great results, big, veiny arms and six pack abs etc at that age, which was , somewhat, of a draw to hypergamous women.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks, I'll look into. At least make me feel better about myself I guess.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Allow me to share some thoughts. If someone broke into your home and threatened your wife and family what would you do? That someone was you and you have identified the threat and are working hard to neutralize it. Good. If someone was going to take your wife and family away from you what would you do? Are you doing it? You appear to have learned a very valuable but very costly lesson. Have you?

Have you expressed this to your W? Have you clearly and definitively told her that you now know the threat you were and the danger you introduced into the family and you are now prepared to do WHATEVER is necessary to guarantee that it NEVER happens again? Have you made it clear to her that your marriage is more important to you than anything else in life? Have you told her that you would protect and defend her with your life? In other words are you fighting for her and your marriage? I do not feel all of the second guessing is accomplishing anything but to confuse and distract you. Be honest, be vigilant and be determined.

I know this is tough but this is a fight that you do not want to lose and, if you are sincere, one your wife wouldn't want you to lose either. You may end up divorced but if that happens make sure you do not have one bullet left in your arsenal that was not fired in the battle to win back your wife. Let me leave you with this, if someone wants something badly enough they will find a way, if they do not, they will find an excuse. I wish you strength and good fortune.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

NC. I believe I have done all those things you suggested. I will think on them and reiterate any I may not have to her to be sure I have, and she has heard them.

Ty for your wisdom.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Made it thru dinner. Wasn't fun until the food got there, then was OK.

On the way home wife started getting headache, think the monthly friend is coming. Very cold and stand offish. I'm chalking it up to her friend. With what's going on between us it just seems to be amplified 10x. Feel horrible, want to do/say something. Just don't know what is the right thing to do anymore.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Homer j said:


> Thanks, I'll look into. At least make me feel better about myself I guess.


Your life is not over. This was a dealbreaker for your wife,as it is for the vast majority of BSs.
But,my XWseems happy now. She will always be a monster to me,but her life seems good.
You can go on to have an enjoyable life.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

So I had a 7 hr drive for an interview tomorrow. I got thinking about all that has gone on the last year. 

Let me say first off I am not upset at my wife for any reason for asking for D. My A is the cause of the D. I understand that and accept that.

What I am upset with my wife over, is this. When she told me she wanted to possibly D, she said she had started having issues 6 months prior. She never said anything to me that indicated things were this bad. 

I have a hard time believing that she just woke up, decided that she didn't love me enough to stay M, and wanted a D. So my logic says she was lying to me for at least a good part of the time when she said I love you before she said she wanted to D.

Is that logical at all? Do I have any right to be upset by this? It was my lack of communication to her that led to my A. We discussed being open with each other in MC, then she does this. When I asked her why she didn't say anything, she said it was her issue, and nothing I could do anything to fix it.

I understand and agree with that. My issue is that I feel she should have said she was having issues and not kept it in. If she couldn't talk to me about it, how can I trust her to talk to me, IF we ever tried again?

Like I said, not upset about the decision, but the events leading up to the decision.

If I'm out of line in this thinking please let me know. I've come to the realization we are done, and a second chance is most likely between slim and none. I've told her if we do try again, it will be up to her to ask about it. I'm not going to ask when she is the one that wanted to D. I've told her I do want a second chance, but it's her call to make.

If my thoughts about lying to me are right, do I even want another chance? Is it worse than the lies I told her, absolutely not, but it does hurt that she didn't/couldn't talk to me.

I'm doing a lot of things I do not want to do. I'm leaving family, friends, my childhood home, trying to find an out of state job, etc. I'm doing this so she can move closer to her family. I know if I wanted to I could say no the kids aren't going out of state. I still may have to sell the house, but I'd still have family and friends. I'm doing this, because I think it's the right thing to do, and I wanted to possibly have a second chance. So with the above logic, it's feeling like I'm giving up everything. I'm a mess a know. Just taking things as they happen.

We had discussed the possibility of getting one place when we get moved, a as it will be cheaper until house is sold, b it will give us time to find places we really want to live in. Now I'm not sure if I want to do that. Even if it was only until mid August when D is final.

Insight needed.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I think you should take the stance that it is over. It's her call at this point. Once she gets around her family I suspect she'll get pushed to start over with someone else. I hope I'm wrong and it works out for you both.

In the meantime once separated I would be civil and respectful but not be a hanger on. I'd limit contact to issues with the kids only. Being needy, clingy at this point will get you nowhere. You'll need to get some activities to fill your time. I would not attempt the "let's be friends etc". If it's over it'll just prolong your stay in limbo. 

If it were me I'd give it a time limit and move on with my life. You'll know soon enough if she starts dating etc.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Marc....yes that was my original plan. With the perceived lying I'm wondering if I even want a second chance though. I think the kids deserve us to try again if she wants to.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Homer j said:


> What I am upset with my wife over, is this. When she told me she wanted to possibly D, she said she had started having issues 6 months prior. She never said anything to me that indicated things were this bad.
> 
> I have a hard time believing that she just woke up, decided that she didn't love me enough to stay M, and wanted a D. So my logic says she was lying to me for at least a good part of the time when she said I love you before she said she wanted to D.
> 
> Is that logical at all? Do I have any right to be upset by this? It was my lack of communication to her that led to my A. We discussed being open with each other in MC, then she does this.


Homer, I know you're processing a lot, but think for a moment: did you just wake up one day, decide to have an A, and not tell your wife? In other words, what may have seemed like a certain drawn out process for your A may have seemed to your wife like her world changed overnight. 

My ex H told me on a Monday morning at 5am (hour before I had to leave for work) that he wanted to change gender. For me, that was a SHOCK. I had no idea!! I thought, "what the -%~&#@ HELL?!" For him, likely he was considering it and working toward it for months, without my knowledge,so he was pretty zen about it. 

Did she push D and not tell you about her unhappiness just to spite you? Well, your brain could insert any manner of reasons to justify your being hurt by her actions, but really, that's a question only she can answer. At this point, is the real answer that important to you? Is not knowing going to stop your forward progress? 

You're in the process of mourning a soon to be loss. It will make you second guess yourself and question everything you and/or she has done to lead to this moment. When I was struggling in the same way, a good friend told me, "it is what it is." I do believe that sometimes it is just that simple to say and believe in. Not everything tough in this world is done to thwart or hurt you. Some of it is to help you grown and learn, if you will allow the lesson in.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Satya.. I understand what you are saying. Thanks for your insight


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Homer j said:


> Is that logical at all? Do I have any right to be upset by this? It was my lack of communication to her that led to my A. We discussed being open with each other in MC, then she does this. When I asked her why she didn't say anything, she said it was her issue, and nothing I could do anything to fix it.





> My issue is that I feel she should have said she was having issues and not kept it in. If she couldn't talk to me about it, how can I trust her to talk to me, IF we ever tried again?





> If I'm out of line in this thinking please let me know.


I think you are out of line here, Homer. When your wife found out about your affair you went from being her closest confidante to her betrayer. Just because you discussed open communication in MC doesn't mean that she would magically trust you with her innermost thoughts. That would take time. And it was entirely up to her how long that took. I think it's wrong (and not helpful to you) of characterising her conduct as "lying". She just wasn't ready to "be vulnerable to you" yet. And sadly, for all concerned it doesn't look like it will happen in the future.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Marc....yes that was my original plan. With the perceived lying I'm wondering if I even want a second chance though. I think the kids deserve us to try again if she wants to.


IMO, staying together for the kids is just not worth it. If both parents are good at raising them they will adjust.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Homer, I think that detaching to give yourself the emotional freedom to work on becoming the best version of you is a good idea. It's clear that you love and respect your BW. I think you need to cut yourself some slack and begin to love and respect yourself again.

You have found your remorse. I believe that that gives you high marks for humanity after you have made such awful choices. You are making amends. You are being a good father. It seems to me that it's OK to feel what you feel - anger, love, jealousy, sadness - without worrying every second about whether you have a right to feel it. 

Keep becoming a better man. Do that for you and your kids. That alone will be gratifying and worth it. Maybe she'll want the new you. Maybe she won't. In either case, you will have done your best to learn from your past.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty all. I appreciate the wisdom. The direction helps as I'm drowning in emotions right now.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ok, so why is not giving a @#$% what she is doing so hard? After my interview today I told her I was starting on the way back home.

Why? Cause she asked me to let her know when it was done, how it went etc.

So she says good job, etc. Remember I'm having dinner with so and so tonight. (Was planned before I left, no biggie). She was then going to some other friends house to stop and see them. (This was new). I said ok.

So an hour out from home she asks where I'm at. Told her an hour to go yet. Ok still over at friends house. That was now an hour and a half ago.

Telling myself don't be pissed, what she does or doesn't do isn't my concern anymore, etc.

It's not working. Pissed she's not home. Just want to sleep, but can't. Rrrrr

One minute she seems concerned and caring, then does stuff Iike this. If I just took off and went somewhere she wouldn't be happy, so why is she doing it to me? If I could get to the I don't give a @#$$ mindset ID have a lot less stress. I'm mad, so why can't I just tell her fu (in my mind, not out loud) and not care?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's so weird to me that you allow yourself all these 'how dare she' thoughts when it is she who has the right to be thinking them about YOU, yet you never really go 'there' in your thoughts. I guess that's just a typical wayward mind process.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

turnera said:


> It's so weird to me that you allow yourself all these 'how dare she' thoughts when it is she who has the right to be thinking them about YOU, yet you never really go 'there' in your thoughts. I guess that's just a typical wayward mind process.


Actually, his thoughts are normally and not a "wayward thing". Homer is feeling powerless and he is still hooked on his ex. You might have read my EA story. I tried for a few days to get my friend out of my head by trying to hate her. Like "how dare this awesome 31 yo make me fall in love with her. She is a predator. " Laughable, but it was a defensive reaction that I no longer use.

Homer will eventually learn that the opposite of love is indifference. He is not there yet (neither am I for that matter.)


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

No I'm not there yet. I do not think she is giving me mixed signals. That is just how I'm processing them.

I guess I do think of some things as how dare you. That's what I'm trying to get past. I know right now I'm being hard towards her, not rude, just acting like she is a co worker, that I really don't want to be around.

I feel like crap for doing it, but if I don't, then I start feeling like crap cause of what's going on.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Homer j said:


> I do not think she is giving me mixed signals. That is just how I'm processing them.


You got that right Homer. I spent way too much time (mis)interpreting signals to be what I wanted them to be. I wish I was as quick as you to realize that. It would have saved me 6-12 months of misery.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Homer j said:


> If I could get to the I don't give a @#$$ mindset ID have a lot less stress. I'm mad, so why can't I just tell her fu (in my mind, not out loud) and not care?


No, mate, this is not the path you want to take- replacing love with hate. Love and hate are two sides of the same coin - you want neither. What you have to aim for is indifference. You need to detach. For your sake. I think I was one of the first people to reply to your first thread and didn't add much more because you were in good hands.

Right now, what you need is this:

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.

It is to help you detach. To become aloof. To not obsess on what your soon to be ex wife is doing. To focus on you. I'm so sorry Homer J, but you must play the hand you've been dealt.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> IMO, staying together for the kids is just not worth it. If both parents are good at raising them they will adjust.


My own parents stayed together and so did most of my friends parents till the children got out of school before divorcing. I've never heard one ever say they were happy their parents stayed in a bad marriage and miserable.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

With regard to your inquiry about being out of line, I think you need to consider that she probably did (and possibly still does) feel love for you when she professed it. Unfortunately, love isn't the only thing that makes a marriage, particularly after infidelity touches it.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

azteca1986 said:


> 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going forward.
> 18. Do not be cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
> 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment.


These are the things I'm struggling and working on. I think for the most part the others I'm doing a decent job on.

When I said getting to the fu state of mind it wasn't out of anger it was to get to I don't care what you are doing with who, why, etc.

I do realize I caused this, that's why I'm not angry at her. My anger is at myself for causing all of this. Thanks for this list. I'll get it copied off so I can review it easier.

It's hard to turn off 20 years of caring about someone. Trying to do it while moving out of state, finding a new job, selling the house I'm sure isn't helping. I go thru spurts where I feel fine, and then things just burst out in anger, sadness, whatever. I'm sure I'm not really fine when it feels like it. Just storing it up for the next bubble to burst.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It's because you're human. Have you both set down and gone over child custody, etc?

When the divorce is final she is not yours and you are not hers anymore. 

What about contact? Kids only, email or text unless emergency? If you keep your lives to intertwined you won't be able to move on, etc. 

The other thing is neither of you need to be there at beck and call for the other. It's a divorce which means to a certain extent the splitting apart of the spouses.

Both of you had better prepare for the reality of what's coming.

It'll be hell for awhile.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Yes, we have decided it's 50/50. I'm planning on no calls to her my off week for sure. We are working on getting details hashed out as we come to them.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Homer j said:


> It's hard to turn off 20 years of caring about someone.


Of course. however I don't think that "not caring" is either realistic or your goal. You will care for her for some time yet. What you're really working at (and it will take conscious effort) is to let her go.


> When I said getting to the fu state of mind it wasn't out of anger it was to get to I don't care what you are doing with who, why, etc.


Apologies if it seems like I'm quibbling over every little thing, but an FU attitude still requires an emotional investment on your part. What you're among for is indifference - to truly let go and come to peace with your situation.


> Trying to do it while moving out of state, finding a new job, selling the house I'm sure isn't helping. I go thru spurts where I feel fine, and then things just burst out in anger, sadness, whatever. I'm sure I'm not really fine when it feels like it. Just storing it up for the next bubble to burst.


You're grieving the end of your marriage. All of this is perfectly normal; feelings of anger, loss, etc. It'll hit you in waves as you process each emotion. And remember it's perfectly fine to be angry from time to time. It's as legitimate an emotion as any other. You have a lot on your plate so keep being aware of how these pressures are affecting you.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Is not feeling bad about not seeing my wife a good thing or bad thing?

I still feel loss at not seeing the kids everyday, it seems like I should feel the same way for my wife, but I don't. At least not like I did.

Is that progress or am I in denial of some sort?

I know I do have some...not anger...resentment? Now, let me say I know that is wrong and I'm working on that. I would say it comes from feeling I am giving up everything.

I'm moving away from family and friends. She is moving to her family.

I'm not going to see the kids the week I don't have them. She will only have every other Saturday she doesn't see them, as due to work hours I will drop off in the morning to ride the bus, and pick them up after school at her place.

We never have had a lot of money, but we had enough to be happy. Now, I don't know how we can afford to do anything aside from an overgrown cardboard box. I'm working to pay for me, her, and the house until it gets sold. She wants to go back to school, so zero income. She has had a part time job so she could do things with the kids in school, now she knows she can't make it on her own, so now she wants to go to school.

I'm most likely going to have to drain my 401k to have any furniture and beds for the kids. I don't want to do it, but I will have zero money to save. I did some rough figuring, and I will be giving her almost half what I make every month, even with the 50/50 split as she worked part time so income is 70-30 me.

I know these are selfish thoughts, but it's what's really going on. Was my A what caused this? Yes. Do I think I should pay for it for the rest of my life? No. Once we sell the house, I'm done paying. I will have had to hit a total life reset, and I'm not going to keep paying for my sins over and over again.

This whole thing has been a nightmare I wish I could wake up from and none of it ever happened.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The resentment comes from an entitlement attitude that you should work on. Part of you doesn't take full responsibility and feels the punishment doesn't fit the crime

Probably the same attitude that caused you to justify an affair so you could feel validated. 

But it is a natural consequence of your affair. Think about this: if you had gone through with the divorce you filed for your ex gf what do you think your family's life would've looked like? Yet that didn't seem to be a concern at the time, but now that your life is a mess you're resentful. That is an entitlement attitude.

I say this not to kick you while you're down, I known you've paid a high price. I'm offering it as a perspective to consider as you're trying to deal with your resentment. 

You know it's wrong but you don't understand what's behind it. That's what I'm trying to help with. 

And no, you don't have to pay for the rest of your life. Once the marriage is over and the settlement is fair your payment is done. Hopefully you can establish a friendly coparent relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Ty life...no kicking taken.

BS and I are both friendly. I think sometimes she doesn't realize that being able to go to a kids school event, and hanging out having dinner are 2 different things.

Sometimes I think she wants the D so she can do whatever, but yet thinks if we aren't seeing other people it's OK to have dinner, see a movie, etc.

Right now I don't want that. I know it's the resentment. I'm thinking, you are not going to take all that is me, and then still get me for dinners etc. when you want. It's all or nothing.

She isn't wavering, but I know she has talked to other people who D and then remarried. So while she isn't committing to that, I get the feeling she may want that someday. What I don't think she gets is I'm not waiting around for a maybe, someday, possibility. Not saying I'm running out to find a gf, cause I know I'm not emotionally stable enough to handle that right now.

Ty for something to reflect on.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Nor should your wait. If you're not going to be married put boundaries in place now. 

You need to detach and you're going to have a tough time explaining dinner with your ex to a new gf. And whatever you do, do not compromise your boundaries out of guilt; she's entitled to end the marriage, but she is not entitled to keep you on an emotional string.

You're not going to be married. Be friendly but do not socialize beyond important kid stuff.

If she makes a stink tell her you're sorry she feels that way but you're not married. Don't engage that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I didn't go back to your earlier posts, so may be off base, but didn't you file for D before she did? Didn't you file when you were in your A?

If so, did you think of all of these effects when you did that? It seems to me that you are describing the typical fallout in a divorce, no matter who files. How is this different from when you filed? You have resentment now about the changes in your life, but they would have been the same if you had divorced her earlier, wouldn't they? Isn't your resentment based on the fact that she has filed this time?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Yes I filed during my A. I'm sure a lot of the resentment is from moving, etc. When I filed, I had some crazy notion how everything was going to be just peachy. I know now it wouldn't have been.

I got thinking some of my resentment is coming from fixing up the house to sell, (which I really don't want to do in the first place, but have to if I want to put kids first, which I am doing). So we have been working on the house. She is gone this week to inlaws as she is doing testing for school. Ok no issues. She is done sometime Friday. Guess what day she comes back? She will then be going down memorial day weekend for nephews open house. Do you think she's coming back on Sunday or Monday? I'm here busting my ass to fix stuff and she takes extra days to "relax". I've got a limited amount of time as I'm starting new job on 31st. So I have no time to enjoy my friends that I will be leaving, etc. Trying not to think about it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Homer j said:


> Yes I filed during my A. I'm sure a lot of the resentment is from moving, etc. When I filed, I had some crazy notion how everything was going to be just peachy. I know now it wouldn't have been.
> 
> I got thinking some of my resentment is coming from fixing up the house to sell, (which I really don't want to do in the first place, but have to if I want to put kids first, which I am doing). So we have been working on the house. She is gone this week to inlaws as she is doing testing for school. Ok no issues. She is done sometime Friday. Guess what day she comes back? She will then be going down memorial day weekend for nephews open house. Do you think she's coming back on Sunday or Monday? I'm here busting my ass to fix stuff and she takes extra days to "relax". I've got a limited amount of time as I'm starting new job on 31st. So I have no time to enjoy my friends that I will be leaving, etc. Trying not to think about it.


Well, not in my nature to kick a fellow when he is down but... Don't you think, after all you did to her, that maybe... just perhaps she deserves those extra days to "relax"?:scratchhead:

You are busting your ass to fix stuff? That's what you need to do to help fix the mess you made.

And to protect your ass, wear metallic underpants.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

By fixing stuff I meant on the house, not relationship. Relationship yes I agree with you. The house I think we both should be doing stuff, not putting it all on one person.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Is it really resentment or is it frustration? Stay strong Homer. This mega-stress time is of short duration. Do as much as you can on the house by yourself - expect to be doing it all yourself and that might help reduce the resentment. Hire someone if you can. Yes, money might be short, but getting the house ready can get you a better price. Can the realtor arrange someone to make the last of the repairs? If not, you might have to leave some money is escrow for the repairs.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Homer j said:


> By fixing stuff I meant on the house, not relationship. Relationship yes I agree with you. The house I think we both should be doing stuff, not putting it all on one person.


I disagree. If you hadn't f'ed up your marriage you could do these home improvement projects at your leisure and stbx wouldn't feel the need to avoid you.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm thinking that last of repairs are going to have to be done by others. Once I leave for work, I'll be home for Sat and most of Sunday and those 3 weekends before moving are going to be getting wheel bearings and trailer lights ready for highway travel, and doing what I want to do before I leave. Kids will have a last bday party at some point too. 

I also have vehicles to get ready, brake jobs etc. as I may be in an apartment/hotel for awhile and no access to tools. I'll also need to be looking for permanent residence once we move so some of this has to get done before I go.

So I got 2.5 weeks to do what I can on house. If it was just the house this week it wouldn't have been as big a deal. I also had everything with kids, homework to help with, daughter had field trip yesterday, etc. So I really haven't done much on house which now feels like time lost.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Your STBX is feeling as much if not more resentment than you. She is also dealing with the pain, humiliation and the hit to her self- esteem that betrayal brings. 

She has had to deal with the prospect of losing her family and the instability of D. All of this from a person who she loved and she thought loved her. 

The emotions you are feeling are similar to what she feels due to your A but yours is less intense. Now you have an idea of what she felt. Have some compassion and empathy for her and put less focus on yourself. 

That self centeredness may be the root cause of her inability to forgive you. The A was about you and so is the D. If this rings true, you must change for the sake of your next relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Homer j said:


> I'm thinking that last of repairs are going to have to be done by others. Once I leave for work, I'll be home for Sat and most of Sunday and those 3 weekends before moving are going to be getting wheel bearings and trailer lights ready for highway travel, and doing what I want to do before I leave. Kids will have a last bday party at some point too.
> 
> I also have vehicles to get ready, brake jobs etc. as I may be in an apartment/hotel for awhile and no access to tools. I'll also need to be looking for permanent residence once we move so some of this has to get done before I go.
> 
> So I got 2.5 weeks to do what I can on house. If it was just the house this week it wouldn't have been as big a deal. I also had everything with kids, homework to help with, daughter had field trip yesterday, etc. So I really haven't done much on house which now feels like time lost.


Is there anyone you can call on for help. You said your family is in the area. You mentioned friends, can they help? I know money is an issue but are there things that a car mechanic can do to speed things along. 

Take some things off your plate. You can't do everything. Do the essentials with the house and get your STBX to agree to do specific task within a specific timeline.

I think this is fair. She decided to D and she agreed to have the house sold. She needs to take responsibility along with you. 

This process is painful enough for both of you. No sense in adding more stress by not cooperating with and supporting each other. 

Under the circumstances, is it really necessary to see friends now. Think of what you need to do and not what your STBX should do or what you are missing out on.

This is the reality of D. You were willing to sacrifice your wife and family to get the OW. Now you need to sacrifice but this time it is your BS who decided to pull the plug. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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