# The "talk"



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

So what do you do when a talk about your poor sex life doesn't go well? I won't bore everyone with all the details but the wife was sharing some things like she was unhappy with like our garage being cluttered so I said I was unhappy with our sex life and it went downhill from there.

Its happened before so nothing new...just curious if anyone had any good suggestions?

I just figured I had to say it as if she was unhappy that the garage is cluttered and her saying she fells disrespected that I let it get that way, I figured it only fair to mention why I was unhappy after going on 6 weeks without sex.

The she cried and went on and on and it became a huge issue. Of course mostly my fault for having a cluttered garage to begin with.

I think I am losing interest in sex just because its too much mental work to achieve.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So what do you do when a talk about your poor sex life doesn't go well? I won't bore everyone with all the details but the wife was sharing some things like she was unhappy with like our garage being cluttered so I said I was unhappy with our sex life and it went downhill from there.
> 
> Its happened before so nothing new...just curious if anyone had any good suggestions?
> 
> ...


 Wrong response. Sounds to me like there are more issues with your marriage than the garage and sex.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

It's a bad idea to bring up an issue this way. It makes it seem like you're trying to trump her issue. "I'm upset about the garage". "Yeah, well, our sex life sucks" is how it sounds to me. Of course, I wasn't a fly on the wall so I don't know what really happened. 

When you talk about something big like this, it's never a good idea to blindside the other person, use it as a comparison, do it while anything but calm, or dump too many issues at once. 

Handle one thing at a time. Don't introduce new issues/topics until the first is fully discussed. If each of you just throw in complaints, nothing gets resolved. 

When your talking about stuff like this you have to give reassurance as well. What does she do that you love? Can you offer suggestions rather than saying how much it all sucks? The whole conversation can't be full of complaints and you need to use your "I feel" statements rather than "you always, you never". Putting all the blame on the other person makes them defensive from the get go. That gets you nowhere. 

I'd suggest looking up how to fight fair. 
If you're having issues communicating these issues, I'd suggest finding a MC - preferably one who handles sex issues as well.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So what do you do when a talk about your poor sex life doesn't go well? I won't bore everyone with all the details but the wife was sharing some things like she was unhappy with like our garage being cluttered so I said I was unhappy with our sex life and it went downhill from there.
> 
> Its happened before so nothing new...just curious if anyone had any good suggestions?
> 
> ...



This 'tit for tat' approach will never work with your wife. She has valid concern as do you but we are not comparing like with like.
You probably feel disrespected as she is not meeting your needs and she also feels disrespected because it appears the home is her responsibility and not hers? '
This kind of response will make you both dig in your heels and go nowhere. You need to work together and stop equating housekeeping with sex.
Belligerent responses do nothing but damage to your marriage.


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## AndStilliRise (Nov 9, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think I am losing interest in sex just because its too much mental work to achieve.


How much porn are you watching? You don't actually have to answer that. It's more a question for self reflection. It's been proven that excessive porn use, with or without masturbation, satisfies and trains the brain to seek out the non-connective, immediate gratification kind of sex. This includes both mental work and physical work. In other words, it trains men to be lazy, lousy lovers. What is excessive? It depends on the person. 

Many women can sense the lazy disconnectedness, even if they don't know what is causing it, and that can turn them off to wanting sex at all. If they know your only end game is to get your rocks off and not spend time as a couple in foreplay, it's often not worth it at all to women. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

You can never negotiate sex in a M.

Time to clean the garage, then have sex in the garage. 

Problem solved.

Now, granted this is tongue in cheek but the concept is solid. 

Do, or do not. There is no try. (Yes, this is from a Yoda meme).


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

If there is a way to make sure this conversation about sex exploded, this was it....

This is important conversation to have. You need to think it through first, what you want to say, how to say, sleep over it, then go over it again. make sure you talk from your point of view, do not tell her what she thinks/feels.

You need the right time and place, when there are no distractions.

And yes, make sure that you pull your weight around the house. Nothing kills sex like situatin when woman feels like she needs to mother her guy, because otherwise nothing gets done. sex appeal killer.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

You all make some good points. I guess just after going almost two months without any attention from her, it needed to be said. And yes, you all are right, probably the wrong timing but all my other attempts to discuss it prior to this had been dismissed.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> You all make some good points. I guess just after going almost two months without any attention from her, it needed to be said. And yes, you all are right, probably the wrong timing but all my other attempts to discuss it prior to this had been dismissed.


Frustrating, that's for sure. But you need to find a way to communicate it to her, that this conversation must happen, no matter how uncomfortable. For some people, things have to be said directly and bluntly, otherwise they won't get it, or dismiss it. Other will understand clues better. 
You know her better than us. Figure out what would get her attention.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

WandaJ said:


> Frustrating, that's for sure. But you need to find a way to communicate it to her, that this conversation must happen, no matter how uncomfortable. For some people, things have to be said directly and bluntly, otherwise they won't get it, or dismiss it. Other will understand clues better.
> You know her better than us. Figure out what would get her attention.


Well, we have had the talk before. We both get upset and things get better and then about a month after that, they decline again and we are back talking about it, "again". Been that way for a while now. I am worn out mentally from having to figure out how to have sex with my own wife.

Admittedly she just has no interest in sex. She has said so. But yeah, you are correct Wanda, I need to figure something out.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well, we have had the talk before. We both get upset and things get better and then about a month after that, they decline again and we are back talking about it, "again". Been that way for a while now. I am worn out mentally from having to figure out how to have sex with my own wife.
> 
> Admittedly she just has no interest in sex. She has said so. But yeah, you are correct Wanda, I need to figure something out.


That is because all you do is talk.

Look up threads on this site about the thermostat. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

What is the garage cluttered with? Is it all YOUR personal stuff, it is it yard/ house maintenance stuff? Why is it your sole problem the garage is cluttered?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Livvie said:


> What is the garage cluttered with? Is it all YOUR personal stuff, it is it yard/ house maintenance stuff? Why is it your sole problem the garage is cluttered?


Its OUR stuff. Lawn tools, storage boxes...typical things. And two cars. Not really sure why its MY responsibility but it is? It stemmed from her wanting to get Christmas decorations out and them not being easily accessible.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> That is because all you do is talk.
> 
> Look up threads on this site about the thermostat.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


OK will do


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well, we have had the talk before. We both get upset and things get better and then about a month after that, they decline again and we are back talking about it, "again". Been that way for a while now. I am worn out mentally from having to figure out how to have sex with my own wife.
> 
> Admittedly she just has no interest in sex. She has said so. But yeah, you are correct Wanda, I need to figure something out.


My wife and I were in this cycle for 7 years. You need to find a way to end it.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Spouse A brings up Annoyance 1, Annoyance 1 is a definite problem that even Spouse B knows about.

Spouse B pulls out the wild card and counters with Annoyance 2 instead of dealing with Annoyance 1.

Spouse A is blindsided and the result?

Neither Annoyance 1 nor Annoyance 2 are resolved.

Why?

It's worth it to Spouse B to keep both Annoyance 1 and Annoyance 2 from being resolved. The question is, why?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Its OUR stuff. Lawn tools, storage boxes...typical things. And two cars. Not really sure why its MY responsibility but it is? It stemmed from her wanting to get Christmas decorations out and them not being easily accessible.


So, this is just generalized nagging, possibly just because she was in a bad mood (she could have just asked you to get the Christmas stuff out).

Throwing the "talk" back at her was about the worst way to bring up the topic.

As FarSide said, time to stop talking and start changing your behavior.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

How old are you two? Kids? Wife always not interested in sex? Why not?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Let's talk about the garage and set the topic of sex aside. I have this exact problem in my marriage, but my wife handles this one very differently. I let the garage turn into a huge mess. Amazon boxes pile up all over the place. The cats make a mess of their food and throw up everywhere. I start projects like repairing the deck and leave sawdust everywhere, or I'll get mad at something not working and take the angle grinder to it (leaving metallic dust everywhere). The cars drip oil. Leaves blow in from outside. Spider webs build up here and there. Broken bicycles and scooters shuffle around into high traffic places and will cause you to trip. 

Has my wife ever fussed at me for the garage? Not once. About two to three times a year, she will yell at the kids and put them to work cleaning out the garage. She gets in there and helps. Starting by backing out the cars and sweeping out all the dust, bugs, and leaves. She then get to organizing things and creates a pile of stuff to go to the dump and another pile for donations. After a solid afternoon of work the garage is sparkling clean and organized. 

Then she waits for me to notice, acknowledge all her (and the kids) work, and be thankful. Hours later I'll pass through the garage and fail to notice that everything has been cleaned. I don't say anything. Then she points out what just happened and asks as to why I didn't notice. THEN she rips me a new one for taking her for granted. THEN I complain about our bad sex life in a passive aggressive way to deflect the argument onto her for not being good enough. Everything goes to shít. 

I go to the store and get her flowers. The next few days I do a little extra around the house. I ask her if she notices and she passively aggressively pretends not to (but with a grin). 

THEN I beg for forgiveness. THEN we have sex. 

I am not sure if my story will help you @FloridaGuy1 but at least it gives you a model of what happens to a messy garage over at another house. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

badsanta said:


> Let's talk about the garage and set the topic of sex aside. I have this exact problem in my marriage, but my wife handles this one very differently. I let the garage turn into a huge mess. Amazon boxes pile up all over the place. The cats make a mess of their food and throw up everywhere. I start projects like repairing the deck and leave sawdust everywhere, or I'll get mad at something not working and take the angle grinder to it (leaving metallic dust everywhere). The cars drip oil. Leaves blow in from outside. Spider webs build up here and there. Broken bicycles and scooters shuffle around into high traffic places and will cause you to trip.
> 
> Has my wife ever fussed at me for the garage? Not once. About two to three times a year, she will yell at the kids and put them to work cleaning out the garage. She gets in there and helps. Starting by backing out the cars and sweeping out all the dust, bugs, and leaves. She then get to organizing things and creates a pile of stuff to go to the dump and another pile for donations. After a solid afternoon of work the garage is sparkling clean and organized.
> 
> ...


Count your blessings that your wife loves you. Because that whole scenario would just piss me off. You should go buy her some flowers right now.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Let's talk about the garage and set the topic of sex aside. I have this exact problem in my marriage, but my wife handles this one very differently. I let the garage turn into a huge mess. Amazon boxes pile up all over the place. The cats make a mess of their food and throw up everywhere. I start projects like repairing the deck and leave sawdust everywhere, or I'll get mad at something not working and take the angle grinder to it (leaving metallic dust everywhere). The cars drip oil. Leaves blow in from outside. Spider webs build up here and there. Broken bicycles and scooters shuffle around into high traffic places and will cause you to trip.
> 
> Has my wife ever fussed at me for the garage? Not once. About two to three times a year, she will yell at the kids and put them to work cleaning out the garage. She gets in there and helps. Starting by backing out the cars and sweeping out all the dust, bugs, and leaves. She then get to organizing things and creates a pile of stuff to go to the dump and another pile for donations. After a solid afternoon of work the garage is sparkling clean and organized.
> 
> ...


and you wonder why you didn't get as much sex as you wanted?.... You are quite comfortable to let her do the heavy work


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

badsanta said:


> Let's talk about the garage and set the topic of sex aside. I have this exact problem in my marriage, but my wife handles this one very differently. I let the garage turn into a huge mess. Amazon boxes pile up all over the place. The cats make a mess of their food and throw up everywhere. I start projects like repairing the deck and leave sawdust everywhere, or I'll get mad at something not working and take the angle grinder to it (leaving metallic dust everywhere). The cars drip oil. Leaves blow in from outside. Spider webs build up here and there. Broken bicycles and scooters shuffle around into high traffic places and will cause you to trip.
> 
> Has my wife ever fussed at me for the garage? Not once. About two to three times a year, she will yell at the kids and put them to work cleaning out the garage. She gets in there and helps. Starting by backing out the cars and sweeping out all the dust, bugs, and leaves. She then get to organizing things and creates a pile of stuff to go to the dump and another pile for donations. After a solid afternoon of work the garage is sparkling clean and organized.
> 
> ...


Maybe the relatability will be helpful for the OP but I hope he doesn't follow your example of seeing the issue and pattern, and doing nothing about it. 

I think some posts should have a disclaimer like: "Just because you found someone like you doesn't mean your actions are/were okay. It means you found another asshole."


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Its OUR stuff. Lawn tools, storage boxes...typical things. And two cars. Not really sure why its MY responsibility but it is? It stemmed from her wanting to get Christmas decorations out and them not being easily accessible.


Why is she incapable of moving _your joint stuff around_ to get to them?

Are you going to address why she made it your problem and approached you about it like she did? I think some women who are married start to take their husband for granted and start providing crap relationships to them. And men tolerate it. 

If she were a single woman what would she have done about accessing decorations?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Some women expect men to do certain jobs in the home. I know mine does. My wife is allergic to taking garbage out, for example. That said, she does 95% of the cooking.

Garages have normally been associated with the husbands - their domain - it could be that's just her expectation. You figure out that space, I'm busy organizing the kitchen.

Etc.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think I am losing interest in sex just because its too much mental work to achieve.


So, she "wins." Maybe there are other steps you can take, but eventually you have to be willing to destroy the marriage to fix it if none of those work.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BlueWoman said:


> Count your blessings that your wife loves you. Because that whole scenario would just piss me off. You should go buy her some flowers right now.


I do make it a point to buy her flowers at random times for no reason other than knowing she has a tough time putting up with all my nonsense.

Better than flowers is for me to take the dog for a walk on a day that she is busy/tired. Perhaps I should try doing both at the same time... Take the dog for a walk and pick some wildflowers while I am out hiking a trail.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

badsanta said:


> I do make it a point to buy her flowers at random times for no reason other than knowing she has a tough time putting up with all my nonsense.
> 
> Better than flowers is for me to take the dog for a walk on a day that she is busy/tired. Perhaps I should try doing both at the same time... Take the dog for a walk and pick some wildflowers while I am out hiking a trail.


and help to clean the freaking garage!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

waynejoey said:


> Sadly this example is the microcosm of marriages all across America (and probably the whole world), and it breeds: addicted men, depressed women, and rebellious kids. Yuck.
> 
> Luckily there is a better way! The Jesus way - boom. He taught us everything we need as men to be: strong, courageous, leaders, confident, attractive, joyous, peaceful, patient, and the list goes on...
> 
> ...


No.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

WandaJ said:


> and help to clean the freaking garage!


Lolol!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!


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## AndStilliRise (Nov 9, 2020)

badsanta said:


> I do make it a point to buy her flowers at random times for no reason other than knowing she has a tough time putting up with all my nonsense.
> 
> Better than flowers is for me to take the dog for a walk on a day that she is busy/tired. Perhaps I should try doing both at the same time... Take the dog for a walk and pick some wildflowers while I am out hiking a trail.


It sounds like her Love Language is Acts of Service. That's why you taking care of the garage means something to her. It's not that she can't do it, itxs that doing things that take a load off or is one less thing for her to do shows her love, especially when not asked or nagged about. When her love language tank is full and she feels loved in this way, it will more than likely make her want to have sex with you more. 

Also, look up what mental load is. The majority of women in relationships carry the brunt of the mental load. When that load gets heavy, which it usually is for us, women do not want sex. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I have a bigger garage and it is always cluttered.
I was told to clean out the attic and the basement and I did.
Most of it went into the garage, or in one of the two sheds.

I solved that problem by building a floor to ceiling, full back wall, shelf unit.

I was told again, to throw everything out. 

I rented a 15 cu. yd. dumpster and filled it up...
With junk and good stuff. 
Stuff, I later needed and had to re-buy.

Now she can get her car in there, but you must pull it out to get at anything.
No problem.

She likes to putter around the garden and all her stuff is scattered everywhere in the garage.
She tells me to again, clean it up.
.
I tell her to place on the pavement everything she wants to throw out.

She says that is my job.

Now, she wants to expand the garage.
So much for downsizing in older age.

Umm.


_Are Dee- _I am ready to downsize myself...to Mars, maybe to Antarctica.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So what do you do when a talk about your poor sex life doesn't go well? I won't bore everyone with all the details but the wife was sharing some things like she was unhappy with like our garage being cluttered so I said I was unhappy with our sex life and it went downhill from there.
> 
> Its happened before so nothing new...just curious if anyone had any good suggestions?
> 
> ...


Ive talked again and again with my husband about our sex issues and nothing, he doesnt care.

8 years and counting.

I guess he wont ever change, so the thing is: will i spend my whole life here? Sex twice a month, no foreplay for me, never kiss me, i never ever received oral, never hug me, never spoon, zero affection, never even look at me during sex and put me in positions where he is on my back.

Sorry for the rant.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> That is because all you do is talk.
> 
> Look up threads on this site about the thermostat.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Give him your story ..... yours was the path.


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## AndStilliRise (Nov 9, 2020)

moon7 said:


> Ive talked again and again with my husband about our sex issues and nothing, he doesnt care.
> 
> 8 years and counting.
> 
> ...


He's heavily into porn. This is the reason for his behavior. He doesn't want foreplay because he wants his quick fix. He doesn't want to look at you because he's using your body as a mastubatory aid as he fantasizes in his head about the other women and scenarios he looks at on the screen. He won't admit it, or at least not the extent he's doing it. You'll have to present him with hard evidence that he can't deny and put boundaries in place about it to continue the marriage. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

AndStilliRise said:


> He's heavily into porn. This is the reason for his behavior. He doesn't want foreplay because he wants his quick fix. He doesn't want to look at you because he's using your body as a mastubatory aid as he fantasizes in his head about the other women and scenarios he looks at on the screen. He won't admit it, or at least not the extent he's doing it. You'll have to present him with hard evidence that he can't deny and put boundaries in place about it to continue the marriage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



Thank you, actually.

I suspect that for awhile now, but as he was/is my first and only sex partner im slow to figuring things out. Almost 9 years, actually.

But you putting like that something that i suspect dor awhile is eye opening.

I sometimes wonder if he settled with me bc he couldnt do better too. For things like never kissing outside bed, not hugging, not saying i love you, not even being my friend, not wanting to lay in bed with me, not talking to me in general, and on and on.

I cant "confront" with prove. I mean, doesnt most men watch porn?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

moon7 said:


> I mean, doesnt most men watch porn?


Yes, many men watch porn but...


moon7 said:


> never kissing outside bed, not hugging, not saying i love you, not even being my friend, not wanting to lay in bed with me, not talking to me in general, and on and on.


...they shouldn't act like that.


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## AndStilliRise (Nov 9, 2020)

moon7 said:


> Thank you, actually.
> 
> I suspect that for awhile now, but as he was/is my first and only sex partner im slow to figuring things out. Almost 9 years, actually.
> 
> ...


Some men look at porn. Some men are addicts. Some are in between. When they start trading you and the connection between you for porn and masturbating, they are an addict. It often (but not always) escalates to more extreme kinds of porn, cam girls, massage parlors, and/or prostitution. It's much more prevalent than people realize. 

You need to know it is not about you. At all. No real woman is enough for a porn addict and it will stay that way unless and until they get treatment and work to stay in recovery. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

AndStilliRise said:


> Some men look at porn. Some men are addicts. Some are in between. When they start trading you and the connection between you for porn and masturbating, they are an addict. It often (but not always) escalates to more extreme kinds of porn, cam girls, massage parlors, and/or prostitution. It's much more prevalent than people realize.
> 
> You need to know it is not about you. At all. No real woman is enough for a porn addict and it will stay that way unless and until they get treatment and work to stay in recovery.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


We never ever had this conection, even though i tried. I was really in love with him.

But since my first time its been like this and i wont hold my breath that he will change this pattern.

I know he searched for prostitutes+motel+massage place during my pregnancies and some stressful times on and off, but i looked into his gps and he doesnt seem to have gone to none.

About "the talk", we had many. So, if you have any more ideas and advices, im eager to try.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So what do you do when a talk about your poor sex life doesn't go well? I won't bore everyone with all the details but the wife was sharing some things like she was unhappy with like our garage being cluttered so I said I was unhappy with our sex life and it went downhill from there.
> 
> Its happened before so nothing new...just curious if anyone had any good suggestions?
> 
> ...


I can't fathom why you would drag your sex life into a discussion about a cluttered garage. You should have dealt with the problem at hand. That must be so frustrating for her. She can't talk to you about the simplest thing.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

waynejoey said:


> lol i post the truth and it is deleted
> 
> this forum is useless, a place for people to gather and spread lies together and i guess generate some ad revenue who knows


Yeah, if it's true then where is the proof?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

bobert said:


> Yeah, if it's true then where is the proof?


I wouldn't...Lol!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

moon7 said:


> Thank you, actually.
> 
> I suspect that for awhile now, but as he was/is my first and only sex partner im slow to figuring things out. Almost 9 years, actually.
> 
> ...


I don't think there is really anything to confront here. He is a dud as a partner and as a lover. 

There are 3.5 billion men out there. All but 6 want to have an active and robust sex life. (OK, I'm exaggerating but you get my point) 

Women dump dudes for not being good enough all the time. There are men that would crawl through broken glass and rusty thumbtacks to have a GF/partner/spouse and do whatever it takes. 

Why worry about what is going on with him. Why are YOU settling?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I can't fathom why you would drag your sex life into a discussion about a cluttered garage. You should have dealt with the problem at hand. That must be so frustrating for her. She can't talk to you about the simplest thing.


And it must be frustrating for him that his sex life sucks so bad that when attacked unfairly about clutter in the garage (general household stuff clutter they are _both_ responsible for, not his personal clutter) his first impulse is to bring it up...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Why in God's name is it unfair to try to talk to your husband about a cluttered garage? So you're saying he's justified in not helping with anything because he's not completely happy with his sex life?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@FloridaGuy1,

Even if the garage mess is her fault 1-100%, I think your life will get simpler if you seek first to understand how she feels and why when she is emotionally charged about it, and also to make her feel heard and understood. I think the chances for actually getting anywhere on any issue are much better if you do those things first. You might lookup “active listening”, and give it a try.

None of us are perfect, and get upset only at the person “responsible” and to the degree he or she is responsible. Sometimes it works better to let someone be unfair and annoying at the start of a conversation, and judge them on how well they behave after you’ve made sure they have been given reasons to feel like you are trying to hear their POV. (Keyword: sometimes. But, afaict, this sounds like it would have been worth a shot.)

+1 to the notion linking house things to your sex life in any way is prone to make solving the sex interest differences harder to solve.

I would be tempted to apologize that “I wasn’t listening closely to your frustrations about the garage, and jumped at the chance to vent about something that’s been weighing really heavily on my mind...We ought to be able to talk about both issues, all issues, and to do so in ways where we see where each other is coming from, truly.”

But that’s just me. Keep in mind my marriage is more sexless than yours, and has been failing longer than yours.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why in God's name is it unfair to try to talk to your husband about a cluttered garage? So you're saying he's justified and not helping with anything because he's not completely happy with his sex life?


Where are you getting this? Are you talking to ME? If you are, nowhere did I use the word UNFAIR, so it would be appreciated if you didn't insinuate I said something I didn't.

You made a comment about how _frustrating_ the conversation must have been for OPs wife. I countered how it must be frustrating for OP as well--- especially since his wife was up his ass about a cluttered garage that is BOTH of their stuff, she's just as responsible for the "clutter", and I also added that his frustration with their ****ty sex life came out when she was up his ass about THEIR cluttered garage. 

Also, who the **** said he's "not helping with anything"? Oh, no one, because that's an untruth. Mm hm.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Liv,I didn't misinterpret anything you said.but I'll stop skipping your posts if you're going to throw crap like that out there and then try to backpedal.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PieceOfSky said:


> @FloridaGuy1,
> 
> Even if the garage mess is her fault 1-100%, I think your life will get simpler if you seek first to understand how she feels and why when she is emotionally charged about it, and also to make her feel heard and understood. I think the chances for actually getting anywhere on any issue are much better if you do those things first. You might lookup “active listening”, and give it a try.
> 
> ...


I can see how the two are linked. Sex and the garage chore performance.

Wife has the attitude that he needs to do these things for her (about the garage). She feels she's entitled to have him perform this service to her. Maybe that really rubbed him the wrong way considering she's not taking care of things that are important to him-- keeping an intimate sexual marriage relationship between them.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I didn't misinterpret anything you said.but I'll stop skipping your posts if you're going to throw crap like that out there and then try to backpedal.


Pretty please-- put me on ignore.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

PieceOfSky said:


> I would be tempted to apologize that “I wasn’t listening closely to your frustrations about the garage, and jumped at the chance to vent about something that’s been weighing really heavily on my mind...We ought to be able to talk about both issues, all issues, and to do so in ways where we see where each other is coming from, truly.”
> 
> But that’s just me. *Keep in mind my marriage is more sexless than yours, and has been failing longer than yours.*


HOW is that possible when you relate the way you wrote in the paragraph above what I bolded...??


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

PieceofSky, I agree with what you said and I'm not discounting it just because your marriage isn't perfect. I imagine you've learned a lot.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why in God's name is it unfair to try to talk to your husband about a cluttered garage? So you're saying he's justified in not helping with anything because he's not completely happy with his sex life?


And one could say same about her. And she is justified in not honoring her maritial vows because he is not helping clean up household crap in the garage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

There is obviously an underlying problem here. I used to get upset about sex too, because when you go without for a long time and your wife seems oblivious to it, you tend to lose it. It' been simmering under the surface for such a long time and then it erupts. Timing is the key here, but I can sympathize with the OP, who's a monster now.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> All but 6 want to have an active and robust sex life.


I thought it was seven. Did the other guy drop dead recently?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> And one could say same about her. And she is justified in not honoring her maritial vows because he is not helping clean up household crap in the garage.


Honoring her marital vows? Guaranteed sex is not in the marital vows. The obey word went away a long time ago. Good Lord. What century are we living in.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Yeah but maybe if it wasn’t the garage then it would be because he stacked the dishwasher wrong .... or he wore the wrong shoes....his eye lashes needed to be trimmed.... the grass in the back yard makes her sad.....the dogs toenails are too long.... in 1976 he spelled tomato with an E at the end.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

He perceived an attack, so he got defensive and attacked back.

A lot of marriage turns into that sort of attack/counterattack behaviour. And, to be stereotypical, it's usually the woman complaining about things around the home that are being ignored, and man complaining about lack of sex.

Unfortunately, all it accomplishes is equating sex with chores and nobody wants that, not to mention introducing a transactional element to sexuality. The dynamic becomes a 'you do this chore and you'll get sex' vs 'you give me sex then I'll do this chore' deadlock. Sex-starved men are grumpy and don't want to do chores. Men who don't do their household share get grumpy wives who don't want sex. Generalizing again, but as long as I'm at it, I'll add that men are more likely to want sex when they are grumpy so they feel better, and women are less likely to want sex with a grumpy man or when they are grumpy themselves. The GRUMPINESS is the problem that needs to be addressed.

The only correct response to "honey, the garage is a terrible mess," is a cheerful "yeah, it's gotten pretty bad. Let's take an afternoon this weekend to tackle it together."

The only correct response to "honey, you don't give me enough sex," is a hopeful "sex isn't something I give and you get. We need to work together to figure out a way to improve sex for both of us."

Leave grumpiness out of it.


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## AndStilliRise (Nov 9, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> Yeah but maybe if it wasn’t the garage then it would be because he stacked the dishwasher wrong .... or he wore the wrong shoes....his eye lashes needed to be trimmed.... the grass in the back yard makes her sad.....the dogs toenails are too long.... in 1976 he spelled tomato with an E at the end.


Sounds like you are projecting at this point.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

AndStilliRise said:


> Sounds like you are projecting at this point.


You might want to read a few of my post around this place 😜


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> You all make some good points. I guess just after going almost two months without any attention from her, it needed to be said. And yes, you all are right, probably the wrong timing but all my other attempts to discuss it prior to this had been dismissed.


Why can't you just go to her and say 'baby, I need some loving' or something, take the bull by the horns and stop this dance


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

aine said:


> Why can't you just go to her and say 'baby, I need some loving' or something, take the bull by the horns and stop this dance


Doing anything like that never ends well. Always ends up with more argument. Lets face it she has no interest in sex and will do whatever it takes to avoid it.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I doubt your wife is to ignorant to realize you're unhappy with your sex life, but she doesn't care. You WILL lose every time you bring it up. Plan your exit.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Sbrown said:


> I doubt your wife is to ignorant to realize you're unhappy with your sex life, but she doesn't care. You WILL lose every time you bring it up. Plan your exit.


I don't disagree. And besides, what fun is it to have to talk and try to convince someone to have sex with you? I want someone that WANTS to have sex with me and initiates, and dresses sexy and starts the fire, and suggests we have sex instead of just going to bed early, etc. She does none of that.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

90 percent of guys like you never find what they want

10 percent learn to just hate themselves

for everything else there is MasterCard


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> 90 percent of guys like you never find what they want
> 
> 10 percent learn to just hate themselves
> 
> for everything else there is MasterCard


Good one!


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## Finwe (Nov 5, 2015)

moon7 said:


> Ive talked again and again with my husband about our sex issues and nothing, he doesnt care.
> 
> 8 years and counting.
> 
> ...


Yep....you need something to work with for any techniques to work. I find sex advice for couples rather amusing now.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Honoring her marital vows? Guaranteed sex is not in the marital vows. The obey word went away a long time ago. Good Lord. What century are we living in.


Biblical marriage it is....Bible say not to withhold from your spouse. The vows we took included her to honor and obey as mine included to love and cherish. By The Book. So if one does not want to include "to forsake all others" then the spouse should be ok with other spouse having others on the side? Afterall it was not stated in the vows.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Join the 21st century.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Finwe said:


> Yep....you need something to work with for any techniques to work. I find sex advice for couples rather amusing now.


True. 

I just feel meh, or half laugh bc of the naivety of those giving advices.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

moon7 said:


> True.
> 
> I just feel meh, or half laugh bc of the naivety of those giving advices.


Yes, but sometimes there is great advice given, but suffering spouses who have asked for the help don't listen or take it.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

OP, aside from the messy garage and lacking sex life, you haven't given many other details of your marriage. Are their children, how many and what are the ages? Do you both work outside the home? How long have you been married? Has there been any betrayals in the marriage? Mental health issues? How was your sex life before the drop off? In other words, what else may be causing your wife to have no interest in sex with you?


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