# Lost, afraid and need some help



## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

I've posted replies few times and am taking a deep breath to share my story. I am 45, married for 17 years (lived together for additional 4 years but have known each other for 28 years), have 2 boys aged 9 and 10. First marriage for both and both parents still together. I'm reasonably attractive but could stand to lose 15lbs, have a great job and am relatively successful (have always been the breadwinner). I share this just so you know I'm not financially dependent though I am tied to our debts/mortgage. I am the primary caregiver and by that, I mean, I do almost all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, discipline, organizing, checking homework, paying bills etc. I feel like I have 3 kids and I don't want a third child, I want a partner. Our sex life is non-existent. Needless to say, we are in trouble. I am lonely and frustrated and have been for a while. I'm ashamed to say it but over 11 years ago, I had an affair. I was lonely then too but we didn't have kids at that time. We separated for 6 months and reconciled. We went to counseling but even that was fake because my husband said all the right things in sessions but that's not how he talks or behaves (though I didn't realize that at the time). 2 years later we had our first child. And here we are at 17 years. I have been completely faithful so don't think my loneliness is leading to that. I grew up with multiple infidelities and those are some of my saddest moments of my life so I would never ever cheat on my family. I have tried talking to my husband and we get no where. He is very apathetic about it, like he doesn't care. I don't believe he loves me and I don't know if I love him. What absolutely devastates me is our children. Separating or divorce will change our kids and they are wonderful right now and I'm scared of what it will do to them. I have always parented very consciously and am raising our kids exactly the way I want to raise them (with the exception of parents who are not loving towards each other). My husband is very detached, cold and unavailable. Sometimes he looks at me like he hates me. Funny thing is, around other people (his family or coworkers), he's a barrel of laughs but with me, he is miserable and moody. This is the first time I have ever imagined being divorced or what life would look like afterwards. I'm only scared for my kids and how I would feel/act if my husband introduces a girlfriend to the boys. I know I am strong and can look after myself despite this pain but I am petrified for my kids. How do you know when it's done?
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## meowmers (Dec 10, 2009)

*sidenote* the use of "we" I guess is my way of saying "me" or "I" and making a generalization of society from the person i know most about  Sorry if it is confusing.

To answer your question, only you know when it is done. I think doubts about it being done are a big clue. Has there always been a divide between your spouse and yourself? If not, do you remember what was going on when you first realized there was distance? We usually get pushed away out of fear. Our spouses are scared of getting hurt or maybe they have gotten hurt one too many times and they just can't put themselves out there again. This is not to say that you hurt him consciously; we actually often hurt others without realizing it. We respond to distance by imposing our own distance for fear of being hurt ourselves. If I were in your position, I would try turning the other cheek. Not in a doormat sense but realize that within all the negativity is the core which is solid pain. Look at your husband as if he were a girlfriend. When your friends are hurt and lash out, do you immediately get defensive or do you step back and realize that there may be something wrong? I think people forget that spouses are people too (I know I forget this). It sounds silly but after so much time together, we have a habit of thinking about the other person as an individual that has their own fears and goals. We begin to see them as extensions of ourselves. We begin to get hostile when we sense negativity. 

At its truest form, expect for cases of blind hatred or mental issues/frustrations, anger is ju8st another form of hurt being expressed. Instead of owning our hurt and being vulnerable, we use the defense mechanism of anger so we don't have to be vulnerable.

I hope this helps.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Have you tried MC in recent months years? 

I can only imagine that the orginal A was always a sore spot in the marriage and found it interesting that you claim you would never cheat on your family, after you had. I think this is why AA members always call themselves an A even after years of being sober. It is acknowledging what has been and what could be again. Facing the fact.

17 years is the perfect amount of time for a MLC. Built up resentment and teen years of marriage has created many divorces for those not seeing the forest for the trees. 

A study shows that those who work on it, and it is hard work, are likely happier married to the same person 5 years later than those who cut and ran through divorce.

For the kids and both of you, I recommend looking for a MC that you can both agree with taking the right steps to correct a broken relationship.

I wish you and your family well.


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## EddieJ333 (Mar 10, 2012)

I agree with the former comment in that it is time (never is too late) to try to recover up your matrimony. Some men feel very very offended when their woman has cheated and the attitude they assume in case they don't break the matrimony up, is to be angry all the time. You need some therapist who explain to him, in a way that he could understand, that your cheating was because he didn't give you enough and you tried to find it in some other way, but it was his fault, and that you are so regretful of doing it that you'll never do it again. Then, after accepting the fact that you were with other, he would be completely sure that you'll never cheat on him again. For sure, if you both recover what is lost and agree to try again, it is very likely that you will be happier than you were before the trouble happened.


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## ImStillHere (Apr 25, 2012)

Both of you need IC/MC...asap.


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

ImStillHere said:


> Both of you need IC/MC...asap.


I am in IC. H is not. We were in counseling when we separated over 11 years ago but H only said the right things in front of counsellor. Believe me, if he communicated like that with me, we wouldn't be here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

This is me said:


> Have you tried MC in recent months years?
> 
> I can only imagine that the orginal A was always a sore spot in the marriage and found it interesting that you claim you would never cheat on your family, after you had. I think this is why AA members always call themselves an A even after years of being sober. It is acknowledging what has been and what could be again. Facing the fact.
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking time to reply. Incidentally, when I say I would never cheat on a family I meant now that there are kids because I would never do to my child what I experienced as a child of a parent who cheats. We did not have kids when I had my A but I know you are referring to H and myself as family. (I didn't consider us a family until we had kids but that is semantics). Can not make the connection with AA because alcoholism is an addiction. My A was clearly not, nor have I been in any denial about it.
I am in IC but H is not. We went 11 years ago and it was fake because H only said the right things in front of counsellor. If he talked like that with me, we wouldnt be in this situation. Nothing changed after that (or rather it did for a very short while and communication went back to old habits). My H does not talk and never really has when i think about it. His father and siblings are like that too. His mother is not but l the siblings think their "mother needs her head checked" (his words, not mine). His family is "close" but they never talk about things or issues or anything serious.
Anyway, thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

EddieJ333 said:


> I agree with the former comment in that it is time (never is too late) to try to recover up your matrimony. Some men feel very very offended when their woman has cheated and the attitude they assume in case they don't break the matrimony up, is to be angry all the time. You need some therapist who explain to him, in a way that he could understand, that your cheating was because he didn't give you enough and you tried to find it in some other way, but it was his fault, and that you are so regretful of doing it that you'll never do it again. Then, after acceptig the fact that you were with other, he would be completely sure that you'll never cheat on him again. For sure, if you both recover what is lost and agree to try again, it is very likely that you will be happier than you were before the trouble happened.


Thank you. I am in counseling but H has no interest in going, though he asks me how my session went. My H knows that I would not cheat again. You'll have to trust me when I say that my A was completely out of character for me. I am the reliable, dependable old shoe in this relationship and every single person who knows us would assume it would be H who would do that (not because he is a heart throb but bc that is more in line with his character and his behavior when we first dated at 18). I am reasonably attractive but do not feel it. 
I just don't know if I can fix this on my own. I deserve to be respected and cherished and sometimes I think I'd rather be alone (I enjoy my own company) than with someone who treats me like the nanny but is not appreciated.
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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

meowmers said:


> *sidenote* the use of "we" I guess is my way of saying "me" or "I" and making a generalization of society from the person i know most about  Sorry if it is confusing.
> 
> To answer your question, only you know when it is done. I think doubts about it being done are a big clue. Has there always been a divide between your spouse and yourself? If not, do you remember what was going on when you first realized there was distance? We usually get pushed away out of fear. Our spouses are scared of getting hurt or maybe they have gotten hurt one too many times and they just can't put themselves out there again. This is not to say that you hurt him consciously; we actually often hurt others without realizing it. We respond to distance by imposing our own distance for fear of being hurt ourselves. If I were in your position, I would try turning the other cheek. Not in a doormat sense but realize that within all the negativity is the core which is solid pain. Look at your husband as if he were a girlfriend. When your friends are hurt and lash out, do you immediately get defensive or do you step back and realize that there may be something wrong? I think people forget that spouses are people too (I know I forget this). It sounds silly but after so much time together, we have a habit of thinking about the other person as an individual that has their own fears and goals. We begin to see them as extensions of ourselves. We begin to get hostile when we sense negativity.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your ost helpful reminder that behind anger is fear and hurt. That makes sense here. Your sensitive comments were very supportive and I do appreciate it. I also agree totally that after being with someone this long, we forget they're NOT an extension of ourselves. We are not best friends nor have we ever been. In fact, many many years ago, he cost me my best friends because they did not like him (with good reason). As a result of that, we have kept all of our best friends separate and have never mixed the groups. We socialize as a couple, only with our kids' friends parents. I think that is pretty unique. Anyway, I am in IC and hopefully will learn if I can deal with it all. Thank ou again for our help.
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## bluelaser (May 26, 2012)

TrueNorth said:


> I'm ashamed to say it but over 11 years ago, I had an affair. I was lonely then too but we didn't have kids at that time.
> 
> We went to counseling but even that was fake because my husband said all the right things in sessions but that's not how he talks or behaves
> 
> Sometimes he looks at me like he hates me. Funny thing is, around other people (his family or coworkers), he's a barrel of laughs but with me, he is miserable and moody.


He resents you but still wants to be with you.

He may not have forgiven you for your affair which begs the question --- why do you think he still wants to be with you? A financial motive perhaps?



TrueNorth said:


> I'm only scared for my kids and how I would feel/act if my husband introduces a girlfriend to the boys. I know I am strong and can look after myself despite this pain but I am petrified for my kids.


You aren't really scared for your kids, you have no reason to. You are just scared of being replaced by a new woman.


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

bluelaser said:


> He resents you but still wants to be with you.
> 
> He may not have forgiven you for your affair which begs the question --- why do you think he still wants to be with you? A financial motive perhaps?
> 
> ...


Absolutely not and its not right to make a definitive statement like that. Very judgemental. You must not have kids. Or young kids at least. I am terrified how this is going to change our kids. We know only a small handful of divorced people (6) and the 4 who have kids have all gotten into trouble (the kids) Right now, our kids are the well-mannered, smart and well-liked kids we are raising with intention and it is inevitable that this will change them. My fear is how. We are both very good parents even though we may not always agree. On your other comment, It's probable that he is still resentful and possible his motive is financial in the sense that we have a good life and do fun things and travel a lot. And it's also a fact that I'm resentful of some things he's done in the past too. There's a lot of history here. We've been married 17 years plus lived together for 4 more plus dated an additional 6 years (off/on those first 6 years since we met at 17). So in all, together well over 25 years. Not a claim most people can make but that isn't the point. My point was how to know when/if it's run it's course, and how do I know if it's worth trying if I'm the only one trying and its band-aid solutions and will just end up in same place in a few years anyway, how to make lasting changes, really.
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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> so I would never ever cheat on my family


Yes you would and you already did.

He never got past it. It's obvious from the fact that you say he's a cheerful person around others but not you. He resents you.

Counseling may help, but some people never get past infidelity. And that's okay because it's THAT painful.


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Yes you would and you already did.
> 
> He never got past it. It's obvious from the fact that you say he's a cheerful person around others but not you. He resents you.
> 
> Counseling may help, but some people never get past infidelity. And that's okay because it's THAT painful.


I should re-phrase. I would never cheat on my kids. And I know very well how painful cheating is. As a wife and as a child of a cheating parent. Both devastating. Enough said.
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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

Just to rephrase....I have always believed that cheating on your spouse is infidelity. Devastating, earth-shattering and life-changing. But cheating on your spouse AND kids is cheating on THE WHOLE FAMILY, a betrayal on the entire family. Also devastating, earth-shattering and life-changing not just for the spouse but also on each child. Trust me. I've been there and it is ugly as a child and as a spouse. And when I said I would never cheat on my family, I meant including my kids. That is a whole different level. And I am most definitely including emotional affairs in all of this.
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## bluelaser (May 26, 2012)

TrueNorth said:


> Absolutely not and its not right to make a definitive statement like that. Very judgemental. You must not have kids. Or young kids at least.


Looks like i hit a nerve here 



TrueNorth said:


> My point was how to know when/if it's run it's course, and how do I know if it's worth trying if I'm the only one trying and its band-aid solutions and will just end up in same place in a few years anyway, how to make lasting changes, really.


MC was designed to help people like you get the answers that you need. (From your previous experience he may just end up saying the right things to stay married.) 

Look, he wants to stay married and you fear the consequences of divorce, so you guys may as well try to find a way to be happy as long as you are going to be together.

Have you tried asking him why he resents you? I can only speculate -
still hung up over old affair?
hates being ordered around the house?
lack of sex?
sees himself as a failure in life compared to you?

I could go on but you get the picture. Unless he tells you we can only keep guessing 
Good luck!


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

bluelaser said:


> Looks like i hit a nerve here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No nerve hit here. Just annoyed it is so wrong on many levels. That someone could even say I'm not afraid for my kids and that there's no reason to be, is unfathomable. Any parent involved their kids lives would be worried about this the most. If a parent isn't worried about this, they are incredibly selfish or un-involved or both. I've read many posts on that concern even from parents whose kids are grown.

As for if I've tried asking why he resents me...yes I have. Like talking to a brick wall. 
He's possibly still hung up over affair (your words, not mine). It was 12 years ago and I thought it was worked out but possibly it comes up when he's feeling insecure.

Ordered around the house? Don't really "order". I do ask for help sometimes ("can you help me by .....please") but mostly I do it myself bc it's easier than hearing complaints or better than having him say yes he'll do it and then 24 hours later, the garbage still isn't done or whatever)

Lack of sex. Most definitely.

And "sees himself as a failure in life". Most definitely not. Neither I nor my H would ever say failure in life. Pretty harsh. Less successful career-wise than me yes, but not failure. He is a good person and the best father I know but just not a good husband or partner. But I know what you're getting at. I am in IC bc I want to try to work out what I can do and maybe change the dynamic. He isn't a fan of MC so not sure if that is option. But thanks for discussion.
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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Are you as defensive and argumentative to him too? You came here for help yet you snap at every responder.
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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Are you as defensive and argumentative to him too? You came here for help yet you snap at every responder.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha! No I'm just to the point but as for defensive, probably. I do not have a problem admitting a mistake and am very pragmatic Funny I showed this thread to my counsellor (Masters degree and very experienced) and she was appalled by the judgemental mentality and insensitivity when people just dont know enough about situations to comment other than to encourage. She has strongly urged me not to return and i will unregister momentarily. Actually if you read all of my posts (numerous ones under Considering Divorce and Separation, Long Term Marriage and also General Discussion forums, you will see my encouragement and support and sensitivity That is what I expected to find here and I have in many people (where again, if you read more, you will read my grateful responsesfor helping me feel not so alone) but also wonder how comments like yours and other random un-related posts are supposed to uplift people when they need help. I hope you are more sensitive and empathetic to people in your own life. Good night.
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## ImStillHere (Apr 25, 2012)

When you come to an _open_ forum like this you'll get a variety of responses. And, a lot of times you will get responses that you don't want to hear. That's just the way it is...it's a blessing and a curse. You take what you take and give what you give. 

Most of us here are just regular people going through our own situations. Sometimes that can get projected onto OPs in a negative way. But please don't take it personally. A lot of us are still trying to just deal with the pain and hurt the best way we know how.


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

Thank you. I do appreciate that. Wishing you all peace and happiness that you deserve.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

TrueNorth said:


> Ha! No I'm just to the point but as for defensive, probably. I do not have a problem admitting a mistake and am very pragmatic Funny I showed this thread to my counsellor (Masters degree and very experienced) and she was appalled by the judgemental mentality and insensitivity when people just dont know enough about situations to comment other than to encourage. She has strongly urged me not to return and i will unregister momentarily. Actually if you read all of my posts (numerous ones under Considering Divorce and Separation, Long Term Marriage and also General Discussion forums, you will see my encouragement and support and sensitivity That is what I expected to find here and I have in many people (where again, if you read more, you will read my grateful responsesfor helping me feel not so alone) but also wonder how comments like yours and other random un-related posts are supposed to uplift people when they need help. I hope you are more sensitive and empathetic to people in your own life. Good night.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've just re-read all the comments in this thread - and I honestly don't see any nasty ones. I do see people asking questions and making suggestions that he is still very much hung up by your affair or that perhaps the marriage never properly healed afterward. 

We haven't been judgemental - yet most of your responses have taken swats at the posters who replied to you. 

And actually comments like mine aren't meant as attacks, but to give you an insight on how others are interpreting your responses. I asked it because your description of your marriage makes it look like communication - positive, productive, and loving is missing from your relationship, and I wondered if the way you responded to these posts was similar to the way your talk to your husband.


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

Actually I am really disappointed that TrueNorth is signing off. This is the first thread that I have read that has almost identical circumstances as me. (less of the past affair more of his pot addiction/mental health).

True North sounds to me that she is very self aware which can intimidate people, and she has worked through many of the issues but others on the other side of the screen may not sense that.

If you have not yet signed off TrueNorth, I would suggest reading a book called Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. This will help you immensely to help with clarity about which issues are non-returnable and which ones are.

Whatever way you go, God Bless.


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