# About violence



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

This is probably going to trigger a lot of people who have experienced actual abuse...

I just watched the show Big Little Lies (very good) and I thought the theme of the abusive husband/abused wife was presented very powerfully.
Since I tend to identify myself with almost any character (including serial killers, zombies and penguins...), it made me think about arguments with my wife and what it would take for me to loose control. I think I have come very close on a few occasions and that scared me.

We used to argue a lot: it would usually be about something completely arbitrary that I will not remember or even understand. I eventually began to notice a pattern: those types of senseless arguments would always take place about a week before her period. I really would feel that I was having an interaction with an insane person (she would not act that way normally). She would be pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing about something (that made no sense) and not let go. Those are the only instances where I felt I could potentially 'lose it' with her. It is only more recently that I realised it was hormone-related all along (not all fights are but those types of fights where I feel like tearing my hair out always seem to be during this time) so I just let her talk/scream and hold my head, stare at the floor and count.

In the past, I would ask her to just leave me (usually after couple of hours, it wears off by itself and the best way was just to leave it). But she wouldn't typically let go for a few hours. 
I mean what do you do if you ask the person to leave you alone or leave your room (to stop shouting and give you space) but they don't? When you feel they have you cornered?
The counting technique was quite effective I thought but I am not sure it's the best solution. I mean is it reasonable to expect the person to leave you alone when they are being unreasonable or is it not really reasonable? Sometimes I managed to quickly get to a room and lock myself in before being followed and wait it out. Though it would continue form outside the door for a while...but not as long as if I was in the same space.

It might sound like she is crazy and escaped an asylum; she has not, it only happens during this certain time. I think it is also hard on her: she does try to rationalize it (saying that I make her act that way) after it passes but I think she knows something isn't right.
And yes, sometimes we would also have great 'raging' sex after or even during the fight (but without the beating, like in the show - that's horrible).

In the past, it happened once or twice that I tried to push her aside to get out of the same room (when she was blocking the door) which would result in her kicking me, screaming or throwing stuff but I stopped doing that because I noticed it makes things worse and can easily change into a physical fight and I was scared of it.

Has anyone been in situations/fights like this? What is the best way to handle it? Defusing it with words doesn't seem to work. Physically escaping also not possible when someone's blocking the exit route. What do you do?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Despite any attack on me I would get out and stay out all night. Also I wouldn't stay with a spouse who kicked me and threw things anyway.What an awful example for the children. I would make it clear that each time things got to that point I would leave for 24 hours. if it carried on despite this I would leave for longer next time and after that I may not come back. I think that we have to set boundaries and give people consequences for their behaviour.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Despite any attack on me I would get out and stay out all night. Also I wouldn't stay with a spouse who kicked me and threw things anyway.What an awful example for the children. I would make it clear that each time things got to that point I would leave for 24 hours. if it carried on despite this I would leave for longer next time and after that I may not come back. I think that we have to set boundaries and give people consequences for their behaviour.


I have done the leaving a few times; it works. Until next time. After some begging etc, I usually come back and all is well for a while. 
I do think the hormonal imbalances are perhaps not well understood or given enough importance: she is really a perfectly loving person/partner at any other times. I really don't think it is something she has a lot of control or 'free will' over. Therefore I am not sure the 'consequence' tactic is the right one.
Also the arguments are not completely one sided: it is usually triggered by something I said or did (which she would never notice at any other time of the month).
Ideally there should be some kind of pill to even out the imbalance. On the other hand I don't want her to be a zombie either. It's nice to be human (up to a point :scratchhead:


----------



## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Yeah, it's called call the damned cops!


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

What? No, the post is more about me worrying how not to become violent on the back of my wife's (rare) outbursts. Why on earth should I call the cops?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

inmyprime said:


> I have done the leaving a few times; it works. Until next time. After some begging etc, I usually come back and all is well for a while.
> 
> I do think the hormonal imbalances are perhaps not well understood or given enough importance: she is really a perfectly loving person/partner at any other times. I really don't think it is something she has a lot of control or 'free will' over. Therefore I am not sure the 'consequence' tactic is the right one.
> 
> ...


Does your wife control her temper during these time periods when she's at work or around other people? I'll bet that she does. This means that she actually has 100% control over where and when she has these outbursts. She knows she can do them behind closed doors at home because you allow it.

I was married to a man who would act the way you describe your wife acts. Only his outburst were not tied to some monthly hormonal cycle.

I think that the way your wife feels during that point of her cycle just makes it easier for her to act out. But she could control it if she wanted to. Like I said, I doubt she acts like that with anyone else, or anywhere else.

You need to put a stop to this because at some point, someone might get hurt. And you will most likely be the one who has charges pressed against them. What is the difference in your size? Are the two of you close in size? Or are you a large bigger than she? What I'm getting at is that usually the man can more easily hurt the woman simply based on difference on size and strength...even if the entire outburst was started by the woman.

You would do well to tell your wife that you have noticed that her outbursts are tied to her monthly cycle. And that you know that she actually has control of the outbursts because she only does them with you. She needs to go help in figuring out how to stop the outbursts and attacking you. For example, since she can track her cycle, she knows when she will be feeling out of control. One of the bests ways to handle this is for her to get an exercise routine that helps her dissipate her emotions before she gets to the point of an outburst. She can also learn to just tell you that she feels like **** and needs to be alone.

And if she does not get control over this, you need to leave her before something bad happens.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> I have done the leaving a few times; it works. Until next time. After some begging etc, I usually come back and all is well for a while.
> I do think the hormonal imbalances are perhaps not well understood or given enough importance: she is really a perfectly loving person/partner at any other times. I really don't think it is something she has a lot of control or 'free will' over. Therefore I am not sure the 'consequence' tactic is the right one.
> Also the arguments are not completely one sided: it is usually triggered by something I said or did (which she would never notice at any other time of the month).
> Ideally there should be some kind of pill to even out the imbalance. On the other hand I don't want her to be a zombie either. It's nice to be human (up to a point :scratchhead:


Sorry but there is no excuse for violence and destruction ever. Does she behave that way at work? With friends? With the children? If not then she can clearly control herself but chooses not to with you.
I think you need to give her more consequences. IE if this happens again I am leaving for good. There is no excuse for her being violent towards you.


----------



## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> What? No, the post is more about me worrying how not to become violent on the back of my wife's (rare) outbursts. Why on earth should I call the cops?





inmyprime said:


> She would be pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing about something (that made no sense) and not let go. Those are the only instances where I felt I could potentially 'lose it' with her. It is only more recently that I realised it was hormone-related all along (not all fights are but those types of fights where I feel like tearing my hair out always seem to be during this time) so I just let her talk/scream and hold my head, stare at the floor and count.
> 
> In the past, I would ask her to just leave me (usually after couple of hours, it wears off by itself and the best way was just to leave it). But she wouldn't typically let go for a few hours.
> 
> ...



You are welcome to ignore me. No big deal. 

What you describe is psychological abuse. FULL STOP! 
You also describe psychological abuse that escalates into physical abuse. FULL STOP! 

Your words, no one else's. 

I myself would not allow that to happen. After about twice, I'm filing for divorce and a restraining order. To each their own.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I second the above. I'm a woman, so note this is the third woman on this thread who absolutely does not think this is okay with monthly hormones as an excuse. If she is able to control herself around others/ the general world during this time and only does this with you, she can absolutely control her behavior and is choosing to be physically and psychologically abusive to you.


----------



## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

This is coming from a woman who has suffered greatly from PMS for many years. Only now that I am going through menopause do I have relief from that hormone induced hell a week out of each month.

I found myself more argumentative, more sensitive and less able to see things in an unbiased way....it was a debilitating 7 days every month.

I did however recognize this as a pattern of hormone inbalance and not my usual self.
I didn’t kick or become physical....I was just unreasonable and very insensitive that things that would normally roll of my back I reacted negatively to.... it was a teeter totter of anger and depression depending on the circumstance.

Since I recognized this in myself ....I made sure I removed myself from a situation that might get volatile and out of control.
Although my H knew how to push my buttons readily and did not curb his reactions towards me at other non PMS times throughout my marriage.....I didn’t want to stoop to his level so I was very conscientious about dealing with it and removing myself from the situation.

Everytime it happened and the conversation became heated between my H and myself.....I told him...you have your thoughts and I have mine and walked away....right upstairs to change into my workout clothes then right downstairs to the treadmill....I ran off my PMS and my unreasonable temper and reactions every month....every year for decades. It was my only way to channel the anger and tumultuous reactions that are not part of my personality at other times of the month. I also journaled the way I felt and how I reacted. Sometimes my reactions were warranted sometimes not....but definitely exaggerated because of the PMS.

There is no excuse for your wife to be acting abusively towards you because of hormone inbalance.....not acceptable.


----------



## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Never get into a relationship, whether romantic or friendship, with someone that cannot control their temper. When you find yourself in such a relationship, exit it.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@inmyprime, 

As is my custom, I'll be blunt, but before I dive in, I will point out that I am a female person what was married to an abusive male person and the dynamic there is very, very similar yet does have some differences. That being said, any time she lays hands on you in anything but a loving way, it is JUST as wrong and violent as if you laid hands on her. The fact you're bigger, more muscular, or a guy is not relevant. Any human being laying hand on another to "kick, punch or push" is physical abuse. This is something that SHE will need to deal with--and as a partner of someone who abuses, there's a little self-care you need to to do too. 

So yeah I lived this life. My exH was 6ft 2in or so, more like "long and lanky" than a big beefy footbally type, and I'm 5 ft tall and built like a dwarf. He couldn't just cast me aside, but he was a lot bigger than I was. And what he'd do is pick and pick and start a fight, then stand in the doorway so I'd be trapped and have to listen to him rage for hours on end. He'd also keep me up all night screaming at me and stand in the doorway of the bedroom...so I'd be trapped. Like you, I did the counting and deeply examining my shoes, essentially escaping in my mind while the storm raged around, but even then your ears do still hear what they scream. So it wasn't good and wasn't working.

It's sad to say, but true, but I took a day when he was gone, and I went through every room in our house, and documented every door and window, every weapon possible in the room, and every "escape route" ... and then planned "What if I get HERE? How do I get out of it?" In each room, I found a spot that left me an option to escape to another room at least, and leave the house if I really had to. And if things REALLY got out of hand, I knew which things in each room I could use to defend myself. I also copied all the really important documents (like SSN and DL and marriage license and kid's shots) and kept them in a duffel in the car that was a bug out bag...a couple changes of clothes, some emergency cash, and essentials in case it was really a "RUN!" situation. 

MAN that is no way to live! But sometimes it's what you gotta do to survive right? The point of this, though, is that while that may be a technique you can employ (review the house--find safe spots--make a bug out bag) it really is not a way to live long term. Yep, I totally "get it" that this is hormone driven, and yet abuse is never excused. If it really is this bad, time to be honest and face it, and maybe talk to a doctor or someone and say "Wow this gets out of hand every month." Now for it to be a real healing, it would be ideal for your wife to recognize this in herself and want to do better. That would be GREAT! But if she won't or is too prideful, there is no reason you couldn't bring it up .... either to her doc or to yours. Either way, the idea is to tell someone who might be able to help, because there is a medical condition called PMDD that is real, and there are both medications and herbal remedies that can improve the symptoms. 

So instead of accepting abuse, think of it as a medical condition and treat it. Seek help. Meanwhile find your escape routes and be safe.


----------



## Uselessmale (May 20, 2017)

My wife doesn’t have the hormone problem and she loses her mind on me. Things have been good for a month but I’m..........waiting.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Ok. Mrs. C got that way for a while early in our relationship. I don't get physical with women but I have a terrific bad temper and once she pushes to far, it is on.

I have destroyed furniture and landscaping as well as nearly shattered glass when I raise my voice.

Early on, she has hit me and even threw a sharp object at my face. I deflected the object with my hand and still have a scar 26 years later.

At one point I told her if she ever hit me again I would leave her and never look back. She never got physical with me again but still started fights occasionally.

I love her but treat her like a brat needs to be treated when she gets in the mood.

I do spank her and "discipline" her with dominant sex sometimes when she gets out of line.

It works well for us but you have to figure out where your lines are and hers.

I'm barely civilized and can't be pushed very far. She is both annoyed and attracted and her own sassy attitude often brings "him" out of the dark cave where I keep "him".

She loves "his" occasional attention so it works for us.

I know it is weird but hope it might help.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

inmyprime said:


> I eventually began to notice a pattern: those types of senseless arguments would always take place about a week before her period. I really would feel that I was having an interaction with an insane person (she would not act that way normally). She would be* pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing *about something (that made no sense) *and not let go*.
> 
> In the past, I would ask her to just leave me (usually after couple of hours, it wears off by itself and the best way was just to leave it). But *she wouldn't typically let go for a few hours*.
> I mean what do you do if you ask the person to leave you alone or leave your room (to stop shouting and give you space) but they don't? *When you feel they have you cornered?*


^^THIS.^^ I call total B.S. on the premenstrual/hormonal "thing." Yes, as a woman I had some pretty rotten PMS days. But to go on and on and make my partner feel cornered? NO. I certainly could be crabby, but I would never go on for an extended period of time. Why? Because it's abuse. You are making excuses for someone who is pushing you to the max. 

Get in your car. Do not stay. Leave for at least 24 hours. SET. BOUNDARIES. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. None. To heck with her hormones. Strap on a pair and make it abundantly clear to your wife that you will not tolerate this type of nonsense. I mean she keeps pushing and it goes on for several hours???? You need to shut this down as soon as it occurs.

And, hormones aside, she wouldn't be behaving this way if you didn't allow it. Seriously.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Does your wife control her temper during these time periods when she's at work or around other people? I'll bet that she does. This means that she actually has 100% control over where and when she has these outbursts. She knows she can do them behind closed doors at home because you allow it.
> 
> I was married to a man who would act the way you describe your wife acts. Only his outburst were not tied to some monthly hormonal cycle.
> 
> ...


That's a good point regarding acting out in front of others. i think what happens is when others are around is that she still feels anxiety but holds it inside (and it is probably a huge effort to hold it inside).

Maybe I wasn't clear (I realize it is difficult to paint a clear picture and as soon as certain words are mentioned, they ring alarm bells). She doesn't 'attack' me physically or maybe even verbally. Verbally: she feels that at the time when she starts arguing, it's in response to something I did or said. (But if I say or do exactly the same thing during another week, the response is totally different/normal).

Physically: so it only happened a couple of times (some years in the past): when i tried to move past her through the door, it kind of opened the door (so to speak) for physical interaction and she would hit or kick or push me back in response.
She feels that it was actually me who was starting it. And maybe she is right because it became unbearable to be in the same room and after many attempts to get her to leave the room by asking, I tried to leave the room myself but could only do it by trying to move her aside and as soon as I did that, she would push back and more.

Basically I am now always very careful not to engage in any physical contact at all to avoid escalation of the situation: because it seems to me that it can all escalate so quickly. This show I mentioned brought back some memories. I actually just wanted to find out if there are any tools to deal with this. And also whether it is reasonable to expect the partner to leave you alone when you feel like the situation might blow up. And what can you do and what is reasonable to do if they don't. In retrospect I don't think it is reasonable to try and actually move someone.

I know this is maybe reverse-stereotyping, but as a man I would never consider that a woman can be abusive. The concept is alien to me (because physically the man is generally stronger) but I do think there is some form of mild abuse (it's too strong a word, maybe lack of self control) as far as those verbal outbursts are concerned. 
I feel they are 100% hormone related when they happen - we otherwise rarely fight and she is perfect...I could never be with anyone else.
Besides the point. She is quite petite but I am not particularly muscly either. If she wanted, she could hurt me but chances are that I would hurt her more simply due to strength. It never went that far beyond a bit of pushing but I could sense that in that crazy state, anything is possible!! Anyway - the point is not to let it get to it so the counting helps me (when the arguments don't make sense and I can't leave).


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Windwalker said:


> You are welcome to ignore me. No big deal.
> 
> What you describe is psychological abuse. FULL STOP!
> You also describe psychological abuse that escalates into physical abuse. FULL STOP!
> ...


No I don't mean to ignore you. I am actually interested in finding out about it. I didn't think that 'psychological abuse' was a thing if it's hormone related. I mean it is involuntary and doesn't it just make her a victim of her biology? She is otherwise a very caring and amazing person. It also doesn't happen every single month; those days just raise the probabilities higher.
Are there women who experience this flood of uncontrollable emotions? I do know a family friend and his wife gets much worse than my wife (she recently smashed something against her husband's head and he had to go to hospital because his head was bleeding. She often gets violent with him but he would never consider leaving her. And this happened in front of other people! My wife would never do that).


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

cma62 said:


> This is coming from a woman who has suffered greatly from PMS for many years. Only now that I am going through menopause do I have relief from that hormone induced hell a week out of each month.
> 
> I found myself more argumentative, more sensitive and less able to see things in an unbiased way....it was a debilitating 7 days every month.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Yes I think this sounds very much like her except that you seem to have been very pro-active about doing something about it. She is like this most months (but only for a few days as far as I can tell, usually the week before period start) and the only few times where things went slightly beyond what you describe. I used to have an app to tell me her cycle but I now more or less sense it and also have to be pro active in how to react. So there are no pills that can lessen the effects of PMS?


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Ok. Mrs. C got that way for a while early in our relationship. I don't get physical with women but I have a terrific bad temper and once she pushes to far, it is on.
> 
> *I have destroyed furniture and landscaping as well as nearly shattered glass when I raise my voice.*
> 
> ...


See, the bolded is in my mind a bit controversial: have you destroyed furniture etc as a result of her words/her arguing then it could be construed that you are the one being violent. I think it's difficult to really know what the hell is going on. I have a feeling many relationships are in this grey zone of 'who started it' and people rationalize later on who was the abusive one. Of course sometimes it is very clear (especially when there is constant abuse). I was always under the impression that I am more likely to be the 'abusive' one because trying to push her aside by wanting to leave the room (and escape from the shouting) would potentially incite a physical fight. Since I am male (and stronger), being 'cornered' is not really a situation without an escape for me: moving her aside is always an option open to the male (it wouldn't be the other way around) however using this option is objectionable to me when I thought about it in retrospect (because technically I am the first person to touch her). That's why I started the counting instead.

'Psychological abuse' is much more of a grey zone...I am not even sure how to begin to think about it. However I am not sure it should warrant destruction of things. But i can relate how this is sometimes difficult to avoid. I have broken a door handle once.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> @inmyprime,
> 
> As is my custom, I'll be blunt, but before I dive in, I will point out that I am a female person what was married to an abusive male person and the dynamic there is very, very similar yet does have some differences. That being said, any time she lays hands on you in anything but a loving way, it is JUST as wrong and violent as if you laid hands on her. The fact you're bigger, more muscular, or a guy is not relevant. Any human being laying hand on another to "kick, punch or push" is physical abuse. This is something that SHE will need to deal with--and as a partner of someone who abuses, there's a little self-care you need to to do too.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you were married to an actual abusive husband where abuse was part of his personality. I think my situation is a bit different. It isn't actually a very big problem for me: I usually can manage it (nor do I ever feel in any kind of danger from her!) it's more of an inconvenience and the main thing I actually do worry about is what if I one day lose control myself, through a combination of bad luck? I have been very close and like I said in the opening post, that feeling scared me. It felt like a primal instinct that I was not aware I had (when she was kicking me and I was pushing her away). I am not sure there's an excuse for self defence when you are stronger than the other person.


----------



## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

inmyprime said:


> . So there are no pills that can lessen the effects of PMS?


My doctor said that Effexor an SNRI antidepressant has worked for some women.
The only thing is....you have to take it everyday for it to work ....not just during PMS.

Working out seemed to be the best thing to keep my mood from spiraling out of control from one extreme to the other during these 7 days. Eat clean, drink lots of water , stay away from caffeine and alcohol.....this all helped.

I also took a high dose of daily fish oil ...2400 mg EPA and 1500mg DHA....in liquid form.
This really helped a lot. 

I didn’t need to chart my cycles....between the physical changes and the psychological changes it was blatantly obvious that “ my alter ego” had reared it’s ugly head.

I think your wife could control what’s happening to her if she learns to recognize the signs and have a plan like I did.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Ok. Mrs. C got that way for a while early in our relationship. I don't get physical with women but I have a terrific bad temper and once she pushes to far, it is on.
> 
> I have destroyed furniture and landscaping as well as nearly shattered glass when I raise my voice.
> 
> ...


So you abuse her because she abuses you, great.


----------



## Saibasu (Nov 3, 2016)

While I don't condone spousal abuse UNDER ANY CIRCUMASTANCES, you would be wise to research PMDD (pre-menstrual Dysphoric Disorder) it is real in the DSM-5. I have it as well I used to go psychotic (basically) like exactly 7 days before my period. It involves an unnatural drop in estrogen replaced by a bad reaction to the over-produced progesterone during that time frame  good new is with moderate (30-45 minutes) exercise 4 days a week, it can be controlled in most people  when I found out I had this stupid thing (also related to low serotonin levels) I bought myself a bike and joined a gym. the PMDD doesn't really affect me now (beside the cry sesh here and there) and I've lost weight and tone down up! Win-Win. I owe it all to my hubs who, like you, knew something wasn't right. Call your family doctor ASAP, if your wife is the loving woman you say she is, then she really could be suffering from this disorder. Best of luck to you both.

Edit: it is not the same as PMS, PMDD is a diagnosable mental disorder that is quite rare. It's not about being spooky or emotional, it has everything to do with unnatural levels of hormones in the brain.


----------



## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

inmyprime said:


> I didn't think that 'psychological abuse' was a thing if it's hormone related. I mean it is involuntary and doesn't it just make her a victim of her biology? .


Oh no....it’s still abuse....regardless of it being hormone related. No raging situation should ever get so bad that she can’t control herself. She knows when it’s happening and can just as easily make a conscious decision to walk away from you and leave the room as she can by kicking you and berating you.

If she can control herself when other people are present....she owes you that restraint too.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> So you abuse her because she abuses you, great.


LOL! Watch "The Quiet Man" and you will get a better picture of our relationship.

I'm not an advocate of abuse and that is not what happens with us.

In the beginning, we had a few instances that occurred over maybe 6 or 7 years.

I have never harmed her and when I have yelled, she had been taking verbal shots at me for quite a while.

Mrs. C gives better than she gets. She is no shrinking violet but I have ended a couple "tiffs" by crushing a piece of furniture or letting my volume get loud.

I would prefer to call us hotheaded, stubborn and passionate.

She has been flat out abusive in the first few years occasionally but has stopped and worked with me for a balance that works for us.

And..... Just like Maureen O'Hara happily went home to make her husband dinner after being dragged through the country side, spanked and even booted in the rump, Mrs. C seems to respond similarly.

It really isn't all that bad. The woman holds nothing back from me in love, commitment and passion.

When she hugs me, other men are jealous because her unbridled passion for me is easy to see.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

With ex-wife sometimes our fights got heated to the point it got physical. I actually encouraged it, her silent treatment was much... MUCH worse. Better she let it out by screaming at me and slapping me repeatedly until she gets tired or I restrain her and she starts crying. But then once the hot air is out, she was much easier to reason with, and sometimes prelude to makeup sex!

Silence is my achilles heel because my brain likes to think, and when I know something is wrong but she refuses to communicate my brain goes on overdrive and psychotic. THAT's abuse!


----------



## Saibasu (Nov 3, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> LOL! Watch "The Quiet Man" and you will get a better picture of our relationship.
> 
> I'm not an advocate of abuse and that is not what happens with us.
> 
> ...


THis may seem crazy to most, but I completely understand what you're saying. My H and I are similar. And there is certainly no lack of passion in all respects! We fight hard, work hard, and love hard. It's the only way we know how to be. Wouldn't change it either.


----------

