# The Next Step In My Journey (Cont'd From Private Thread)



## SentHereForAReason

Good Morning All,

Here's my story which is now in the Private Members Section, moved from here about a month ago, wanted to give everyone an update.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/privat...just-flat-out-stuck-not-sure-what-do-now.html

First of all, thanks for the concern and for all those that reached out in the post and in PMs! I left the forum not for any reason in particular other than I had finally found everything I needed to know and uncovered the depths of the affair and started putting together a plan for weeks. It didn't go as planned but it set a course for where we are today and what was finally decided last night.

On December 12th, I found out everything. I had only circumstantial evidence for 6 months of gut feelings, piecing together actions, moods and things on Pinterest, etc. Turns out all of my gut reactions were 99% proven correct. I found out that even when I first uncovered the affair in early June, they never stopped, they just kept taking it more and more underground. They both created secret email accounts in late June and were conversing every morning and night via email and all day during text, phone and meeting in person many days on the job site, taking off for lunch, etc. 

They were deep, they were discussing marriage, house ideas, looking at actual houses and basically when they weren't seeing each other, they were communicating non-stop over any channel, text, email, voice. Even when she promised her Dad and I she was done with him in October, she actually went to spend time with him the very next day.

On December 21st, I found out that his wife FINALLY found out. She put a stop to everything but my wife and him were still planning on being 'friends' and were using a third party to pass messages through. Even though he decided to commit to his wife and make things work, my wife was not done and was willing to wait for him and still was madly in love and devastated. Even when she said she knew she was done with him and it would no never work, I knew she wasn't done. I found her list of questions she was going to ask them when they met up. The meeting never happened because the wife caught wind of it and went to the OM's job site and prevented the meeting from taking place.

I had my wife served on December 21st as well. I didn't want the divorce but I thought it is what was needed to put certain protections in place and if anything to shock her into how crazy all of this was. She was mentioning things like him meeting our kids and inviting him to be with them at events. That was the last straw for me. She can walk over me but getting my kids involved showed the lack of any sort of judgement and forced the hand I was moving towards anyhow. By the end of the day, she never got the papers because she wasn't where she was supposed to be. So, with Christmas on the horizon and her knowing that I knew EVERYTHING now, we decided to give it a few days and talk about it again after Christmas.

The questions included a lot of eye opening things into the mind of my wife and just how far deep she was in with this man. She wanted marriage and a life forever with him, in her mind. In her head she had lost him once back in 2009 and she couldn't bear to lose him again, she only envisioned a life with him together. She said it would be hard on our kids but she knew she would be a happier healthier mom now and have happier kids as a result of that but even though willing to do that alone she wanted to start that life over with him because it would be better. She then went in and out of things she was scared about, like if she would always ONLY be his secret, if she would only always be his girlfriend. She wrote down some things about how hurt she was that he was making this look easy to not be in contact with her but she knew he owed his wife a shot. There's a lot more along these same lines but it all hurt me like Hell.

Shocking to everyone that ever game me advice and the people here, I just didn't feel done in my heart and just tried to relay to her that I never wanted a divorce and I still don't but only if she could dedicate 100% to honestly working on this on her end. After her talking with our priest again and family members, she started to make rounds and closure and I knew that was her answer, that even with him out of the picture, she had convinced herself that it wouldn't work between us. She has convinced herself that she didn't get the love that she deserved and she would be happier without me. She could never bring herself to fix why she always nitpicked or whatever I did was wrong, she couldn't find a way to fix that and now she doesn't even want to put the effort into it because she convinced herself that she tried for years before the affair.

We had our final talk last night about moving forward with the Divorce papers to be served. I felt clear and satisfied that I had said my piece that I loved her and I always will, that I didn't want this and I'm doing this because I have no other choice and it's what you want. I told her that I would rather go through Hell than put our kids through this. She understood but again, she's basically convinced herself that the marriage wasn't as good as I thought it was or even good for the kids to see a healthy relationship, something that we agreed to disagree on. She knows I'm a great person, a great father but just convinced herself that I'm not right for her or not compatible. I tried to reason with her till my lips were blue on this issue about how opposites aren't a bad thing but for every reason or every answer I had, she had a response that shot it down. 

I think this will be a pretty amicable split as there's not a lot of anger or any hatred. The only part that may cause a major rift in the proceedings is that she wants just joint custody and for many reasons, I want primary custody and the house to keep the kids where they are comfortable. 

The thing that hurts the most if her thinking that I wasn't right for her or she didn't get the love she deserved or that she got married because it was the thing to do and everyone she knew was getting married at that time. I truly believe there was genuine love at one point but she's trying to do anything she can to justify why she would do what she did with the longstanding affair and to make herself feel better about these decisions. I have showed the messages and evidence to those I have confided in and trust and they believe this was not the thinkings of anything rational but rather a teenage style fantasy and unrealistic expectations for her own life and marriage. Essentially the way many feel in an affair, that this is what is meant to be, this is perfect and this is my soulmate. All of the fun and none of the dragging down of real life with kids, responsibilities and obligations. 

Thank God for a supportive family, including hers (for the most part) and good friends and counseling. My counselor believes that she has some deep seeded issues that will not be resolved until she has a life changing event happen. It's then, that she will tackle the insecurity and depression that she has carried all of her life, way before she met me. The issues that require her to receive affirmation on a daily basis to make her feel good about herself. She told me she needs to be told she's beautiful everyday and that it's not too much to ask. I asked her if she would rather have someone tell her that for a year to get what they want or to have someone show you that or genuinely feel it and she told me it shouldn't be too much to ask. 

Over the past few months, both her and her best friend asked me, well, if you didn't find out about the affair, or it never happened, would you have ever changed. Because I did a lot over this past summer to become a better man, a better leader and a better father because of the shock to my system and the awakening I had. I told them both, all it would have taken was for my wife to say. " ___, I'm not happy in the marriage and this needs to change" I told them both, it would have had the same effect as the affair on me and I would have re-focused my life on what was necessary. I guess, from what I hear now and what my counselor has said, even if I changed years ago, I still would have ran into this because the problem was never in me, never between us, it resides in her and until she decides to fight those demons, she will continue to live this life with these issues until that day comes.

I truly hope the best for her but also deep down am saddened by what she is willing to do for herself because she believes this will make her happier and in turn will make the kids better. I wholeheartedly disagree but there lies the conflict never resolved. There's a lot more details to this story of what I uncovered but you guys get the jist and the deceit that was carried out during this whole process and the lies told over and over to cover this up and make us feel like idiots for assuming this was what was going on. I don't carry ill will because of that but only because those decisions are going to tear the family apart and I need to do what I have done while this has all been going on, focusing on the 2 little people that had nothing to do with this and surely didn't ask of it


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## syhoybenden

" I had said my piece that I loved her and I always will" ....... not!

Unrequited love is not love. True love is a two way street. Unrequited love is just pathetic.
When you are finally on your own you may, just may, be able to extricate your head from between your butt cheeks.

This will be good for you, but more importantly it will be good for your kids to stop seeing a false image of what a marriage is supposed to be about.


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## badmemory

You could have saved yourself months of further suffering and self debasement if you hadn't ignored the advice you were given. Even after you got solid evidence, it's sad to see you tried to convince this horrible, unremorseful woman to R. You may be filing for D, but she's divorcing you; and she's doing you a favor.

Honestly, you are the most co-dependent BS I have ever seen on this board. Please, please get some counseling for that, or it will carry on to your next relationship.


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## Bananapeel

I don't want to criticize how you handled things because many have been in the same boat to some extent. However, if you really wanted her back the usual strategy is generally to kick her out and not tolerate her bad behavior. Drawing that line in the sand forces a power change in your favor. Instead by trying to talk her into reconciliation and choosing you, you instead gave her 100% of the relationship power. Plus, if things aren't going to work out it generally feels better for your self-esteem to be the dumper rather than the dumpee, which helps with your emotional recovery.


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## badmemory

Bananapeel said:


> if you really wanted her back the usual strategy is generally to kick her out and not tolerate her bad behavior. Drawing that line in the sand forces a power change in your favor. Instead by trying to talk her into reconciliation and choosing you, you instead gave her 100% of the relationship power.


I wish I had a dime for every time he's been told that.


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## MyRevelation

Finally, someone had some balls and put a stop to this nonsense. Unfortunately, the one with the balls was the OMW.


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## SentHereForAReason

MyRevelation said:


> Finally, someone had some balls and put a stop to this nonsense. Unfortunately, the one with the balls was the OMW.


When she found out everything, she emailed me an apologized for how she reacted to me and wish she would have listened to me back then. Problem is now, she is like where I was a few months ago. She is minimizing how big this affair was and is listening to everything her husband says. I replied to her with some more info that I had and she said, I have to tell you the truth, everything I'm telling her, she's telling her husband and that she would rather let all of the air run out of her lungs rather than betray her husband and is still willing to let him be a customer of hers when I told her, my wife is not even supposed to be the sales contact for that region of the state!


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## turnera

So...what you're saying is that exposing the affair started the end of the affair and involving the OM's wife cemented the end of the affair.

Exactly as we told you. 

Except what you didn't do was (1) do it immediately, (2) tell her you were done, and (3) refrain from giving her 'one more chance' over Christmas to come to her senses. The three things that would have had the best chance to save your marriage.

I'm not saying this for you, OP. I'm saying it for all the newbies who come and waver over whether to believe us.


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## Young at Heart

stillfightingforus said:


> ......Turns out all of my gut reactions were 99% proven correct. I found out that even when I first uncovered the affair in early June, they never stopped, they just kept taking it more and more underground. They both created secret email accounts in late June and were conversing every morning and night via email and all day during text, phone and meeting in person many days on the job site, taking off for lunch, etc.
> 
> *They were deep, they were discussing marriage, house ideas, looking at actual houses and basically when they weren't seeing each other, they were communicating non-stop over any channel, text, email, voice. Even when she promised her Dad and I she was done with him in October, she actually went to spend time with him the very next day.*
> 
> On December 21st, I found out that *his wife FINALLY found out. She put a stop to everything* but my wife and him were still planning on being 'friends' and were using a third party to pass messages through. Even though he decided to commit to his wife and make things work, my wife was not done and was willing to wait for him and still was madly in love and devastated.
> 
> .....I had my wife served on December 21st as well. I didn't want the divorce but I thought it is what was needed to put certain protections in place and if anything to shock her into how crazy all of this was. .....By the end of the day, she never got the papers because she wasn't where she was supposed to be. So, with Christmas on the horizon and her knowing that I knew EVERYTHING now, we decided to give it a few days and talk about it again after Christmas.
> 
> ......Shocking to everyone that ever game me advice and the people here, *I just didn't feel done in my heart and just tried to relay to her that I never wanted a divorce and I still don't but only if she could dedicate 100% to honestly working on this on her end. After her talking with our priest again and family members, she started to make rounds and closure and I knew that was her answer, that even with him out of the picture, she had convinced herself that it wouldn't work between us.*
> 
> ....We had our final talk last night about moving forward with the Divorce papers to be served. *I felt clear and satisfied that I had said my piece that I loved her and I always will, that I didn't want this and I'm doing this because I have no other choice and it's what you want.*
> 
> .....My counselor believes that she has some *deep seeded issues that will not be resolved until she has a life changing event happen.* It's then, that she will tackle the insecurity and depression that she has carried all of her life, way before she met me. The issues that require her to receive affirmation on a daily basis to make her feel good about herself.
> 
> ......I guess, from what I hear now and what my counselor has said, even if I changed years ago, I still would have ran into this because the problem was never in me, never between us, *it resides in her and until she decides to fight those demons, she will continue to live this life with these issues until that day comes.*


A few thoughts. Gut feelings and listening to them are an important survival skill.

I am sorry for your loss. Treat it like a grieving process.....you will reach closure. Keep going to counseling and even try to offer it to your children as this will be hard on them. Focus on your future with your kids.

NEVER RECONCILE WITH THIS WOMAN NO MATTER WHAT SHE SAYS OR PROMISES YOU. MOVE ON!

Save yourself and the lives of your children.

OK, having been in a sex starved marriage where I committed to change or divorce, I both understand some of what you are feeling, but not any of the utter betrayal. I applaud your taking your time to make sure that divorce was the right course of action for you and your children. I also applaud you for making sure in your own mind that you had left no stone unturned to try to save your marriage.

If you look at a typical 5 to 7 step grieving process you are getting close to acceptance. Talk to your counselor about having them help you reach acceptance and helping you visualize a happy future with your children, but with out your ex-W. Start referring to her as your ex-W.....start thinking of the woman you married as no longer existing. Yes, she blessed your life with children and at one time with joy, but that person no longer exists and nothing that person can do will ever allow you to have the marriage you are still missing.

Good luck. Life will get better. Never think of reconciling with her.....she and your marriage can never be what they were.


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## Malaise

turnera said:


> So...what you're saying is that exposing the affair started the end of the affair and involving the OM's wife cemented the end of the affair.
> 
> Exactly as we told you.
> 
> Except what you didn't do was (1) do it immediately, (2) tell her you were done, and (3) refrain from giving her 'one more chance' over Christmas to come to her senses. The three things that would have had the best chance to save your marriage.
> 
> I'm not saying this for you, OP. I'm saying it for all the newbies who come and waver over whether to believe us.


Yep.


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## Malaise

OP

What's her status with the church?

What did the priest say/do? Or did she skate on that as well?


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## Satya

Hindsight is always 20-20.
You had to do what you thought was best, regardless of the advice given from the board.

I also think you should have acted much more quickly and decisively, but what's done is done.
You have demonstrated that it's in your nature to talk more, reason, and negotiate. Unfortunately for you it's like trying to negotiate with a brick wall. That's what "affair fog" does to a person. Blinds them to everything else. If she had been more open to realizing what she was going to lose, you might have been able to appeal to her. For many WS though, they are simply unable to see what they stand to lose, until it is gone and there is no chance of it coming back.

Just the fact that she was so enamored with the OM and planning a whole LIFE and FUTURE with him when he was still married... and she still married as well... that would HURT me to no end. They were plotting behind your back. After that, I'd want no association with such a snake of partner any longer.

I say it here often and I'll say it again.
You can love her with all of your heart, soul, and being and she can still be WRONG for you.
And she is.


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## GusPolinski

stillfightingforus said:


> Good Morning All,
> 
> Here's my story which is now in the Private Members Section, moved from here about a month ago, wanted to give everyone an update.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/privat...just-flat-out-stuck-not-sure-what-do-now.html
> 
> First of all, thanks for the concern and for all those that reached out in the post and in PMs! I left the forum not for any reason in particular other than I had finally found everything I needed to know and uncovered the depths of the affair and started putting together a plan for weeks. It didn't go as planned but it set a course for where we are today and what was finally decided last night.
> 
> On December 12th, I found out everything. I had only circumstantial evidence for 6 months of gut feelings, piecing together actions, moods and things on Pinterest, etc. Turns out all of my gut reactions were 99% proven correct. I found out that even when I first uncovered the affair in early June, they never stopped, they just kept taking it more and more underground. They both created secret email accounts in late June and were conversing every morning and night via email and all day during text, phone and meeting in person many days on the job site, taking off for lunch, etc.
> 
> They were deep, they were discussing marriage, house ideas, looking at actual houses and basically when they weren't seeing each other, they were communicating non-stop over any channel, text, email, voice. Even when she promised her Dad and I she was done with him in October, she actually went to spend time with him the very next day.
> 
> On December 21st, I found out that his wife FINALLY found out. She put a stop to everything but my wife and him were still planning on being 'friends' and were using a third party to pass messages through. Even though he decided to commit to his wife and make things work, my wife was not done and was willing to wait for him and still was madly in love and devastated. Even when she said she knew she was done with him and it would no never work, I knew she wasn't done. I found her list of questions she was going to ask them when they met up. The meeting never happened because the wife caught wind of it and went to the OM's job site and prevented the meeting from taking place.
> 
> I had my wife served on December 21st as well. I didn't want the divorce but I thought it is what was needed to put certain protections in place and if anything to shock her into how crazy all of this was. She was mentioning things like him meeting our kids and inviting him to be with them at events. That was the last straw for me. She can walk over me but getting my kids involved showed the lack of any sort of judgement and forced the hand I was moving towards anyhow. By the end of the day, she never got the papers because she wasn't where she was supposed to be. So, with Christmas on the horizon and her knowing that I knew EVERYTHING now, we decided to give it a few days and talk about it again after Christmas.
> 
> The questions included a lot of eye opening things into the mind of my wife and just how far deep she was in with this man. She wanted marriage and a life forever with him, in her mind. In her head she had lost him once back in 2009 and she couldn't bear to lose him again, she only envisioned a life with him together. She said it would be hard on our kids but she knew she would be a happier healthier mom now and have happier kids as a result of that but even though willing to do that alone she wanted to start that life over with him because it would be better. She then went in and out of things she was scared about, like if she would always ONLY be his secret, if she would only always be his girlfriend. She wrote down some things about how hurt she was that he was making this look easy to not be in contact with her but she knew he owed his wife a shot. There's a lot more along these same lines but it all hurt me like Hell.
> 
> Shocking to everyone that ever game me advice and the people here, I just didn't feel done in my heart and just tried to relay to her that I never wanted a divorce and I still don't but only if she could dedicate 100% to honestly working on this on her end. After her talking with our priest again and family members, she started to make rounds and closure and I knew that was her answer, that even with him out of the picture, she had convinced herself that it wouldn't work between us. She has convinced herself that she didn't get the love that she deserved and she would be happier without me. She could never bring herself to fix why she always nitpicked or whatever I did was wrong, she couldn't find a way to fix that and now she doesn't even want to put the effort into it because she convinced herself that she tried for years before the affair.
> 
> We had our final talk last night about moving forward with the Divorce papers to be served. I felt clear and satisfied that I had said my piece that I loved her and I always will, that I didn't want this and I'm doing this because I have no other choice and it's what you want. I told her that I would rather go through Hell than put our kids through this. She understood but again, she's basically convinced herself that the marriage wasn't as good as I thought it was or even good for the kids to see a healthy relationship, something that we agreed to disagree on. She knows I'm a great person, a great father but just convinced herself that I'm not right for her or not compatible. I tried to reason with her till my lips were blue on this issue about how opposites aren't a bad thing but for every reason or every answer I had, she had a response that shot it down.
> 
> I think this will be a pretty amicable split as there's not a lot of anger or any hatred. The only part that may cause a major rift in the proceedings is that she wants just joint custody and for many reasons, I want primary custody and the house to keep the kids where they are comfortable.
> 
> The thing that hurts the most if her thinking that I wasn't right for her or she didn't get the love she deserved or that she got married because it was the thing to do and everyone she knew was getting married at that time. I truly believe there was genuine love at one point but she's trying to do anything she can to justify why she would do what she did with the longstanding affair and to make herself feel better about these decisions. I have showed the messages and evidence to those I have confided in and trust and they believe this was not the thinkings of anything rational but rather a teenage style fantasy and unrealistic expectations for her own life and marriage. Essentially the way many feel in an affair, that this is what is meant to be, this is perfect and this is my soulmate. All of the fun and none of the dragging down of real life with kids, responsibilities and obligations.
> 
> Thank God for a supportive family, including hers (for the most part) and good friends and counseling. My counselor believes that she has some deep seeded issues that will not be resolved until she has a life changing event happen. It's then, that she will tackle the insecurity and depression that she has carried all of her life, way before she met me. The issues that require her to receive affirmation on a daily basis to make her feel good about herself. She told me she needs to be told she's beautiful everyday and that it's not too much to ask. I asked her if she would rather have someone tell her that for a year to get what they want or to have someone show you that or genuinely feel it and she told me it shouldn't be too much to ask.
> 
> Over the past few months, both her and her best friend asked me, well, if you didn't find out about the affair, or it never happened, would you have ever changed. Because I did a lot over this past summer to become a better man, a better leader and a better father because of the shock to my system and the awakening I had. I told them both, all it would have taken was for my wife to say. " ___, I'm not happy in the marriage and this needs to change" I told them both, it would have had the same effect as the affair on me and I would have re-focused my life on what was necessary. I guess, from what I hear now and what my counselor has said, even if I changed years ago, I still would have ran into this because the problem was never in me, never between us, it resides in her and until she decides to fight those demons, she will continue to live this life with these issues until that day comes.
> 
> I truly hope the best for her but also deep down am saddened by what she is willing to do for herself because she believes this will make her happier and in turn will make the kids better. I wholeheartedly disagree but there lies the conflict never resolved. There's a lot more details to this story of what I uncovered but you guys get the jist and the deceit that was carried out during this whole process and the lies told over and over to cover this up and make us feel like idiots for assuming this was what was going on. I don't carry ill will because of that but only because those decisions are going to tear the family apart and I need to do what I have done while this has all been going on, focusing on the 2 little people that had nothing to do with this and surely didn't ask of it


Do yourself a huge favor and stop trying to either reason with her or make sense of her feelings.

By now she’s spent so much time lying to you, lying to herself, and rewriting the history of your marriage — and getting a fresh batch of attachment hormones as a result of every interaction with OM, which provided the validation she needed to continue the lies — that she’ll be deep in the fog for quite some time.

Make sure that you’ve pushed the divorce through to the end well before she comes out of it.


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## SentHereForAReason

turnera said:


> So...what you're saying is that exposing the affair started the end of the affair and involving the OM's wife cemented the end of the affair.
> 
> Exactly as we told you.
> 
> Except what you didn't do was (1) do it immediately, (2) tell her you were done, and (3) refrain from giving her 'one more chance' over Christmas to come to her senses. The three things that would have had the best chance to save your marriage.
> 
> I'm not saying this for you, OP. I'm saying it for all the newbies who come and waver over whether to believe us.


Exactly! I'll be happy to be an example and living proof of what to do and what not to do. Before the affair and after. I wish I would have done some things differently but feel good in my heart and soul for truly believing I gave it my all. Last night I accomplished what I wanted. We moved on but I made it clear, even if it gives her the power theoretically that I didn't want this, you wanted this. 

There were some snags along the way so maybe I can offer a few pointers in my case which would have helped me.

1. I was able to be patient and tactical with getting evidence over two week period in December and I was able to do with with her not having a dang clue. Wish I would have been this tactical in June when I first found out to get the whole truth early on but then again, it was the first blow and the emotions were running high.

2. After getting more info and talking to her, I would have exposed to the vital people much sooner if I know what I know now to break up the fantasy early before it got way too involved. I was mistaken that if I had the time that I would win her over but instead the time was crucially against me and deepened the affair and her love for him and her control over her.

3. It's vital to expose to the Other spouse involved but when I did it, I did it without enough evidence, the evidence I wouldn't have til a month later. Again, that makes steps one and two more important.

And of course, no matter what I read, no matter what I was told and studied and told her, she was still able to convince me why contact was necessary for her job. Now I fully understand what I told her all along and myself all along but didn't truly heed it because I was afraid of the consequences of demanding but it would have been necessary. That's making the ultimatum of no contact with OM or no marriage.


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## SentHereForAReason

Bananapeel said:


> I don't want to criticize how you handled things because many have been in the same boat to some extent. However, if you really wanted her back the usual strategy is generally to kick her out and not tolerate her bad behavior. Drawing that line in the sand forces a power change in your favor. Instead by trying to talk her into reconciliation and choosing you, you instead gave her 100% of the relationship power. Plus, if things aren't going to work out it generally feels better for your self-esteem to be the dumper rather than the dumpee, which helps with your emotional recovery.


I think boyfriend/girlfriend relationships it's a big thing to be the dumper and come away with your head held high. But in this case with the life we had built up and our kids and what I believed in. I hold my head high because I fought for what I believed in and what stayed true to my own values and when I knew that it wouldn't work no matter what I did, it hurt and I was sad but I left it all on the field. I would do things a lot differently if I had to do it over but what's done is done. Like it's been said, exposure earlier and him or me earlier regardless of what the consequences would have been, would have given me a much better chance then I suppose.


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## SentHereForAReason

Malaise said:


> OP
> 
> What's her status with the church?
> 
> What did the priest say/do? Or did she skate on that as well?


They talked twice and she appears at least from what I know to have cleared this hurdle. God only knows how. I am going to reach back out to him. I know they are close but what ever she told him, seems to be ok. She's still involved in all the meetings and planning and serving in church even though she told him we were getting a divorce?


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## Malaise

stillfightingforus said:


> They talked twice and she appears at least from what I know to have cleared this hurdle. God only knows how. I am going to reach back out to him. I know they are close *but what ever she told him, *seems to be ok. She's still involved in all the meetings and planning and serving in church even though she told him we were getting a divorce?



Lies.


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## SentHereForAReason

Malaise said:


> Lies.


I reached out to him to keep him updated throughout and did the same just now to see if I could get a sense for how he felt. I mean it was kind of heartbreaking the way she made it seem like he was basically 'ok' with this. I find it hard to believe but she does a great job of pulling the wool over people's' eyes.


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## Lostinthought61

are you and the OM's wife in touched, have you shared more things with her and told her of your current status, so she can be prepared.


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## Malaise

stillfightingforus said:


> I reached out to him to keep him updated throughout and did the same just now to see if I could get a sense for how he felt. I mean it was kind of heartbreaking the way she made it seem like he was basically 'ok' with this. I find it hard to believe but she does a great job of pulling the wool over people's' eyes.


Ask him if he is 'ok' with adultery.


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## badmemory

stillfightingforus said:


> I'll be happy to be an example and living proof of what to do and what not to do.


Lol. Of what to do? Not so much. Of what not to do? Nominated.


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## Yeswecan

Sorry it came to this. The reality of it will come crashing down when STBXW is physically served the D papers. However, it is apparent she wants out. What you have written indicates this without any doubt. None of this is your fault. Can not fix what you do not know is broken. Be the best you can be for your kids. As of today, minimal contact with STXW.


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## SentHereForAReason

badmemory said:


> Lol. Of what to do? Not so much. Of what not to do? Nominated.


Meant proof via my experiences and tribulations on what to do VIA the recommendations of the fine cohorts here!


----------



## anchorwatch

stillfightingforus said:


> She wanted marriage and a life forever with him, in her mind. In her head she had lost him once back in 2009 and she couldn't bear to lose him again, she only envisioned a life with him together.
> 
> ...that she got married because it was the thing to do and everyone she knew was getting married at that time.


It's clear you weren't ever her choice, you were the person she settled for. 

Your IC is right, she's got personal problems that don't allow for her to be a good partner. You don't need a project like that in life, you need a stable partner that doesn't think of you as the second choice. 

You may not see it now, but you will be okay without her and so much better off with someone who wants to be with just you. 

Best


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> ....She wanted marriage and a life forever with him, in her mind. In her head she had lost him once back in 2009 and she couldn't bear to lose him again, she only envisioned a life with him together. She said it would be hard on our kids but she knew she would be a happier healthier mom now and have happier kids as a result of that but even though willing to do that alone she wanted to start that life over with him because it would be better. She then went in and out of things she was scared about, like if she would always ONLY be his secret, if she would only always be his girlfriend. She wrote down some things about how hurt she was that he was making this look easy to not be in contact with her but she knew he owed his wife a shot. There's a lot more along these same lines but it all hurt me like Hell.
> 
> Shocking to everyone that ever game me advice and the people here, I just didn't feel done in my heart and just tried to relay to her that I never wanted a divorce and I still don't but only if she could dedicate 100% to honestly working on this on her end. After her talking with our priest again and family members, she started to make rounds and closure and I knew that was her answer, that even with him out of the picture, she had convinced herself that it wouldn't work between us. She has convinced herself that she didn't get the love that she deserved and she would be happier without me. She could never bring herself to fix why she always nitpicked or whatever I did was wrong, she couldn't find a way to fix that and now she doesn't even want to put the effort into it because she convinced herself that she tried for years before the affair.
> 
> ...She knows I'm a great person, a great father but just convinced herself that I'm not right for her or not compatible. I tried to reason with her till my lips were blue on this issue about how opposites aren't a bad thing but for every reason or every answer I had, she had a response that shot it down.
> 
> ...The thing that hurts the most if her thinking that I wasn't right for her or she didn't get the love she deserved or that she got married because it was the thing to do and everyone she knew was getting married at that time. I truly believe there was genuine love at one point but she's trying to do anything she can to justify why she would do what she did with the longstanding affair and to make herself feel better about these decisions. I have showed the messages and evidence to those I have confided in and trust and they believe this was not the thinkings of anything rational but rather a teenage style fantasy and unrealistic expectations for her own life and marriage. Essentially the way many feel in an affair, that this is what is meant to be, this is perfect and this is my soulmate. All of the fun and none of the dragging down of real life with kids, responsibilities and obligations.


SFFU - I think you have perfect grounds to file for an Annulment in the Catholic Church. Then you'd be free to marry again in the Church and put this unfortunate episode behind you.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Malaise said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I reached out to him to keep him updated throughout and did the same just now to see if I could get a sense for how he felt. I mean it was kind of heartbreaking the way she made it seem like he was basically 'ok' with this. I find it hard to believe but she does a great job of pulling the wool over people's' eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> Ask him if he is 'ok' with adultery.
Click to expand...

Go to another church if that is an option. If she is involved with the liturgy and the priest allows this, write a letter to the bishop of your diocese.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Get an annulment started ASAP while she is in a fog. Get yourself into IC now. Do not let her emasculate you any further. Get her gone.


----------



## Archangel2

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Go to another church if that is an option. If she is involved with the liturgy and the priest allows this, write a letter to the bishop of your diocese.


:iagree:

SFFU - Don't sit on your hands and let this hypocrisy continue.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I do not understand what you found in December - had she been sleeping with him all along ? If not, when did it start ?


----------



## Rob_1

OP even in your last moments with her you were still acting like a weak pathetic man. No wonder why she has little respect or attraction for you. I only hope that you become a strong man with self respect going forward. If you were my dad I would be extremely ashamed of you as a man. I apologise is this is too strong for you, but that's my take looking from the outside in.


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## honcho

Get a deal cut quickly with her and push this divorce thru as quick as you can. Your stbx is in lala land and right now believes in her head that once she is free the OM will come back to her and leave his wife which most likely won't happen. Sooner or later your stbx will figure it out and the nice easy deal you might get now will turn into a nasty divorce since Mr perfect won't be taking care of her the rest of her life.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

manfromlamancha said:


> I do not understand what you found in December - had she been sleeping with him all along ? If not, when did it start ?


Not sleeping with him but essentially planning to very soon, maybe even the day before it got broke up because I think they were both planning on taking the day off and meeting that Friday. Wife found out everything on Thursday.

What they were planning the whole time was a life together after my wife quickly was moving on and through the process to get free and she was willing to wait for him when he was done with his wife. They were looking at houses, planning on home improvements, etc. They were meeting up for lunches quite often. She's in sales and he's a customer of hers. And she has made friends with the people in his company so she would visit almost on a daily basis to drop off supplies, check on equipment, etc but then they would break off and go have lunch together or shop or just go away in her vehicle and sit and do whatever. I believe he was just leading her on the whole time but my wife was wanting a life with him forever, even after the wife broke it off, it was clear she still wanted to wait for him and eventually be chosen by him but I think it was clear who he chose, which was always not much of a doubt. The only question now is that if he's just waiting for things to cool down on his side so he can resume having a girlfriend too. That was one of the questions my wife had to him in her notes. "Will I always be just your girlfriend?" "You said I'm your secret, is that all I will ever be?" Apparently, yes


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Rob_1 said:


> OP even in your last moments with her you were still acting like a weak pathetic man. No wonder why she has little respect or attraction for you. I only hope that you become a strong man with self respect going forward. If you were my dad I would be extremely ashamed of you as a man. I apologise is this is too strong for you, but that's my take looking from the outside in.


As a man and as a husband, yes can be seen as very weak. As a Father, no. I pride myself on trying to do what was best for my kids as I know them best and in our situation. We have 2 great kids but they operate best with both parents in the same household. For 6 months, I was doing it for the whole family, especially my wife and myself but in the last month, I was doing what I thought was best for the kids to keep us together. I told my wife in our last talk during the decision, that I would rather go through Hell, eternally and literally than put our kids through this. Her response was that the kids will be better off because she will be a happier, healthier mother and person. I knew then, again, that the person she was most concerned with was the person that said those words. 

Our proceedings should be pretty fair with the only point of contention being the kids. I'm going for Joint Custody (decision making) and Primary Physical Custody with reasonable custody for the mother. I won't back down from that and she knows this. It's not a bargaining piece or out of spite. I have been the primary caregiver of the kids for most of their lives (she's the home improvement lady, etc). And especially during her summer of Love, I had to pick up the slack fill in the schedule voids, take days off when they were sick, no childcare, etc.

She got mad when I told her I told the principal the situation and I told her someone had too, I had to make sure someone could be my eyes in ears at school to see if the kids were being affected by this. As they don't know, even if they sense something. She said I was thinking about it in November and I said, well I'm even more glad that I talked to the school about it because you thought about it and did nothing.


----------



## GusPolinski

You have a warped sense of what’s best for your kids — an “at all cost” or “no matter what” marriage is _not_ what’s best for them.

What would be best for your kids is for your wife to be a) remorseful for her actions and b) committed to rebuilding your marriage and family in light of them. But since that’s not happening (and she’s been showing you this for months), your idea of what’s best for your kids has to change. 

You need to realize this and change course accordingly.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

GusPolinski said:


> You have a warped sense of what’s best for your kids — an “at all cost” or “no matter what” marriage is _not_ what’s best for them.
> 
> What would be best for your kids is for your your wife to be a) remorseful for her actions and b) committing to rebuilding your marriage and family in light of them. But since that’s not happening (and she’s been showing you this for months), your idea of what’s best for your kids has to change.
> 
> You need to realize this and change course accordingly.


True and this is what will help me push on from her on out! She will be picking up the papers today at my lawyer's office. Friend of the court date is set for 2 weeks from yesterday.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

And not that it matters much now but she is confiding in and talking a lot to one of her 'friends' from the same company. She was using him first as a messenger to get messages to the OM and back to her so the other wife wouldn't find out but now she is using him for a shoulder to lean on and probably someone she thinks she can maybe get the OM jealous with, who knows ......


----------



## GusPolinski

From here on out you should probably refer to OMW as “the lint collector”.

:lol: :rofl:


----------



## SentHereForAReason

guspolinski said:


> from here on out you should probably refer to omw as “the lint collector”.
> 
> :lol: :rofl:


nice!


----------



## Edmund

GusPolinski said:


> From here on out you should probably refer to OMW as “the lint collector”.
> 
> :lol: :rofl:


Did the OMW actually write that disgusting message about "lint collecting" or did the OM write it? It didn't sound to me like something a woman would write.


----------



## Malaise

stillfightingforus said:


> *Not sleeping with him* but essentially planning to very soon, maybe even the day before it got broke up because I think they were both planning on taking the day off and meeting that Friday. Wife found out everything on Thursday.
> 
> What they were planning the whole time was a life together after my wife quickly was moving on and through the process to get free and she was willing to wait for him when he was done with his wife. They were looking at houses, planning on home improvements, etc. They were meeting up for lunches quite often. She's in sales and he's a customer of hers. And she has made friends with the people in his company so *she would visit almost on a daily basis to drop off supplies, check on equipment, etc but then they would break off and go have lunch together or shop or just go away in her vehicle and sit and do whatever*. I believe he was just leading her on the whole time but my wife was wanting a life with him forever, even after the wife broke it off, it was clear she still wanted to wait for him and eventually be chosen by him but I think it was clear who he chose, which was always not much of a doubt. The only question now is that if he's just waiting for things to cool down on his side so he can resume having a girlfriend too. That was one of the questions my wife had to him in her notes. "Will I always be just your girlfriend?" "You said I'm your secret, is that all I will ever be?" Apparently, yes


How do you know they didn't hook up. They had plenty of opportunities.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Edmund said:


> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> 
> From here on out you should probably refer to OMW as “the lint collector”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did the OMW actually write that disgusting message about "lint collecting" or did the OM write it? It didn't sound to me like something a woman would write.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not ... I know she wrote it and was just as bad of a ruh sweeper as I was and maybe still is sadly.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Malaise said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Not sleeping with him* but essentially planning to very soon, maybe even the day before it got broke up because I think they were both planning on taking the day off and meeting that Friday. Wife found out everything on Thursday.
> 
> What they were planning the whole time was a life together after my wife quickly was moving on and through the process to get free and she was willing to wait for him when he was done with his wife. They were looking at houses, planning on home improvements, etc. They were meeting up for lunches quite often. She's in sales and he's a customer of hers. And she has made friends with the people in his company so *she would visit almost on a daily basis to drop off supplies, check on equipment, etc but then they would break off and go have lunch together or shop or just go away in her vehicle and sit and do whatever*. I believe he was just leading her on the whole time but my wife was wanting a life with him forever, even after the wife broke it off, it was clear she still wanted to wait for him and eventually be chosen by him but I think it was clear who he chose, which was always not much of a doubt. The only question now is that if he's just waiting for things to cool down on his side so he can resume having a girlfriend too. That was one of the questions my wife had to him in her notes. "Will I always be just your girlfriend?" "You said I'm your secret, is that all I will ever be?" Apparently, yes
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know they didn't hook up. They had plenty of opportunities.
Click to expand...

Based on finding all the evidence it's safe to assume there was no intercourse but I believe it may have been planned the day after the wife found out. They we're talking about plans to and other situations as if they never have which surprised me. I'm sure they did most everything else however.


----------



## eric1

Does his wife know that you guys are separating and that she plans on putting on a full-court press for him?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

eric1 said:


> Does his wife know that you guys are separating and that she plans on putting on a full-court press for him?


To be honest as soon as she told me, that she passes everything I tell her on to her husband, i told her good luck and I hope the best for your family. No, I haven't told her. I asked a few close people and they said don't bother but I'm still considering it.

These were her last 2 responses to me when she told me that my wife and her were done. My wife told me yesterday that she met with the OM and they agreed to go separate ways. I don't believe that's what she wants and could be just another lie to me and herself but at least for now, the OMW is tracking everything.

Last Response #1
"Later *OM* and I talked through everything and he said they both feel the need to have closure. (A goodbye so to speak). I gave him my permission to have that one last meeting to make it final. I believe it will be 1 day next week. 
Again, *OM* has my permission to say goodbye in person. He needs to close the door on it to move forward."

Last Response #2
"Just so you know, anytime you email me, I tell my husband immediately. We talk openly about this. I do not lie or keep secrets from him. I've never needed to and I will not start now. I appreciate you coming to me and letting me know about their affair. It has been monumentally painful and I'm still very hurt. But, to be completely transparent, you should know I'm on his team. I would give up the breath in my lungs before I betrayed him."


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> To be honest as soon as she told me, that she passes everything I tell her on to her husband, i told her good luck and I hope the best for your family. No, I haven't told her. I asked a few close people and they said don't bother but I'm still considering it.
> 
> These were her last 2 responses to me when she told me that my wife and her were done. My wife told me yesterday that she met with the OM and they agreed to go separate ways. I don't believe that's what she wants and could be just another lie to me and herself but at least for now, the OMW is tracking everything.
> 
> Last Response #1
> "Later *OM* and I talked through everything and he said they both feel the need to have closure. (A goodbye so to speak). I gave him my permission to have that one last meeting to make it final. I believe it will be 1 day next week.
> Again, *OM* has my permission to say goodbye in person. He needs to close the door on it to move forward."
> 
> Last Response #2
> "Just so you know, anytime you email me, I tell my husband immediately. We talk openly about this. I do not lie or keep secrets from him. I've never needed to and I will not start now. I appreciate you coming to me and letting me know about their affair. It has been monumentally painful and I'm still very hurt. But, to be completely transparent, you should know I'm on his team. I would give up the breath in my lungs before I betrayed him."


The om wife is as naive as you are in this mess. A "last meeting" is not closure and usually ends up with both parties either scheming how to continue without getting caught or by the time they get done meeting they convince themselves the are star crossed lovers who are being ripped apart and attach themselves emotionally even more. It's just nonsense to allow any last meeting. 

Let the om wife know you've filed for divorce so she can at least be extra attentive to watching his moves. The om wife is still in denial right now about her husband, you can't change that.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

honcho said:


> The om wife is as naive as you are in this mess. A "last meeting" is not closure and usually ends up with both parties either scheming how to continue without getting caught or by the time they get done meeting they convince themselves the are star crossed lovers who are being ripped apart and attach themselves emotionally even more. It's just nonsense to allow any last meeting.
> 
> Let the om wife know you've filed for divorce so she can at least be extra attentive to watching his moves. The om wife is still in denial right now about her husband, you can't change that.


Now that we have moved on with the proceedings, I really don't want to do things out of spite and want to be the bigger person but i didn't see much harm in sending out this notice. I just sent her the note that W agreed to move on and thought Divorce was best for her and that I hope the best for them on their side and that it is a true reconciliation and that she never has to encounter something like this again.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

stillfightingforus said:


> Based on finding all the evidence it's safe to assume there was no intercourse but I believe it may have been planned the day after the wife found out. They we're talking about plans to and other situations as if they never have which surprised me. I'm sure they did most everything else however.


It is safe for your mental state, but life plans with no sex is BS to me. I pretty much stopped reading after 2009. She pined for this guy for nearly a decade. Sadly, it sounds like you still take too much blame. Get some counseling or fall into this type of marriage again.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It is safe for your mental state, but life plans with no sex is BS to me. I pretty much stopped reading after 2009. She pined for this guy for nearly a decade. Sadly, it sounds like you still take too much blame. Get some counseling or fall into this type of marriage again.


I think that is why, in some part, the other parts or just plain irrational that she played down the affair so much EVEN after I knew everything, is that because since they didn't have P to V intercourse that it wasn't as bad as it should have been. However, like you said, the pining since 2009 the things she actually said to them hurt me a lot worse than just plain physical contact could have ever done. I'm in counseling and I would like to believe I wouldn't fall into a relationship like this again, not that - that is even on my radar in the near future but I tried to keep this marriage together because of what I believe in and my vows, my kids and the fact that it was already so much put into it. If this was just us or a bf/gf relationship, I would have been long gone.

I'm hoping to hear back from my priest. I mean if he's really nonchalant about this ... that adds to the pain


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I read your original thread. I remember your rationalizations and eventual anger, we will just disagree. Neither of us will know the truth until she speaks up. I hope for your mental state you are correct. I have a sneaking suspicion the OM's wife is going to end up with some life altering information in the future. One thing I have seen on this board, men LOVE to throw their affair partner under the bus.


----------



## sokillme

In your other thread I suggested some books to read you should still read them. Your reaction to all of this hasn't been healthy. If you don't do some work you will marry another women just like this one. Please get some IC.


----------



## Sports Fan

I am sorry it has come to this. Back on your original post i gave you the below advice. Others here gave you similiar warnings. This time for your sake please be strong seek out a shark of a divorce lawyer and kick her to the kerb with no remorse.

You need to man up and listen to the advice on this forum. I have been where you are. You are being played. Don't believe for one second that she has not slept with the other man. Whether you choose to stay or go is your choice but i'm getting the vibe that you are a stay no matter what type of guy. 

Your best hope is for you to man up now blow this up to other mans wife, do a hard 180 and feel no remorse for you wife. It might kill you inside but never show her your sad emotions. Cry in private if you have to.

Seperate all accounts including joint credit cards if any, file for divorce and make it abundently clear you will not tolerate this foul behaviour. She is either going to see the writing on the wall and shape up or she might choose to go for good. Either way at the very least even if she goes you would have reclaimed your dignity. At present she is only with you as she is too afraid of the poverty divorce might bring. She currently has an ATM, Babysitter, Maid, Cook, etc whilst she gets to go out and bang the other man.

Sorry to be so harsh but that's the reality of your situation. A reality most of us here have lived.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

sokillme said:


> In your other thread I suggested some books to read you should still read them. Your reaction to all of this hasn't been healthy. If you don't do some work you will marry another women just like this one. Please get some IC.


I get what you guys are saying and I played right into a heck of a situation but there's some reasons I'm glad I waited. Not until December 14th did I have the ultimate proof that I needed for closure and hopefully something beneficial for my case. Until then, all I had was a lot of gut feelings, small amounts of evidence and a lot of coincidental stuff. That day put in December put all of the pieces of the puzzle together and I was able to put it all together to know everything, her gameplan then and when I found out. Yes, I did try to reconcile even after that but I'm glad I know what I know now.

I have read those books and I have IC. Maybe what might be hard to understand is that I don't need anyone to make me happy. I will be just as happy with my kids and myself when it comes to me. I did this, well at least I thought I was doing this for my kids and for her. I was raised to do things for people because it needed to be done and because it was the right thing to do and expect nothing in return. I learned through counseling and through books that while that's great for parenting, it's not totally healthy in a relationship because it's ok to expect things in return. The home I grew up in is not how every household will be. I grew up in a house with two totally different parents that made it work and loved each other for their differences because they were both mentally strong. My dad did everything for my mom that he could without expecting a damn thing in return and got reciprocated. It worked for them, it didn't work for us. She kept wanting more and more and whatever I did was wrong. I should have stood up for myself a long time ago but instead I just took it as she was a different animal and I had to let her be her. I was still happy to be honest because I don't need others to make me happy. 

If there was any unhappiness on my part and this is what I always told her, I just wanted her to be happy. I have learned through IC that I could be have been different, I could have done a lot of things different but chances are we would have ended up with the same result because the issues were never on what I said and did, they lie within the person itself and until those issues are addressed, she'll continue to push the real cause of her hurt, depression and insecurities away. They were there before I met her and they will be there after. I hope she gets help eventually but every professional I have talked to said it's going to take a significant life changing event to spark it!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Sports Fan said:


> I am sorry it has come to this. Back on your original post i gave you the below advice. Others here gave you similiar warnings. This time for your sake please be strong seek out a shark of a divorce lawyer and kick her to the kerb with no remorse.
> 
> You need to man up and listen to the advice on this forum. I have been where you are. You are being played. Don't believe for one second that she has not slept with the other man. Whether you choose to stay or go is your choice but i'm getting the vibe that you are a stay no matter what type of guy.
> 
> Your best hope is for you to man up now blow this up to other mans wife, do a hard 180 and feel no remorse for you wife. It might kill you inside but never show her your sad emotions. Cry in private if you have to.
> 
> Seperate all accounts including joint credit cards if any, file for divorce and make it abundently clear you will not tolerate this foul behaviour. She is either going to see the writing on the wall and shape up or she might choose to go for good. Either way at the very least even if she goes you would have reclaimed your dignity. At present she is only with you as she is too afraid of the poverty divorce might bring. She currently has an ATM, Babysitter, Maid, Cook, etc whilst she gets to go out and bang the other man.
> 
> Sorry to be so harsh but that's the reality of your situation. A reality most of us here have lived.


No ill will taken, I appreciate the advice. I'm not sure if you saw however, we have filed for divorce and she picked up the papers today. She is well on her way to what ever she thinks she needs and deserves and is happy about it, at least for now. I'm not standing in the way anymore and am moving on in my own way. We have our friend of the court date on January 23rd. I'm holding my head high that I tried but moving on and being the best man, dad and general overall person I can be. I'm no longer trying to save this marriage because it's the divorce is in motion and I know whatever I do or say isn't going to make a damn difference anyway. My full focus is getting my career back in order, my focus, my fun and most importantly, doing everything I can for the two little people involved in this that are innocent and never asked for any of it. I told my wife I would go through Hell instead of doing this to our kids but in the end, she said she felt this was best for her and she made herself believe that since she will be happier and healthier, the kids will be better off as well. 

Also makes it easy that she is well off with her job financially and can do pretty much as she pleases on the road (outside sales). 

I'll still be the maid, the babysitter, the cook and the atm but again, for the two people that matter most now.


----------



## Sports Fan

You are absoloutley correct that the main focus now are the two little people. Well done for having their best interest at heart in this most difficult time.

Given your comments regarding your wife's well paying job, i hope you have consulted a good attorney. Are you applying for majority custody of the children or at the very least joint custody? If your wife makes more then you and has to travel for work there is a good chance you might be awarded custody plus spousal support. Please engage the services of a good lawyer.


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> I get what you guys are saying and I played right into a heck of a situation but there's some reasons I'm glad I waited. Not until December 14th did I have the ultimate proof that I needed for closure and hopefully something beneficial for my case. Until then, all I had was a lot of gut feelings, small amounts of evidence and a lot of coincidental stuff. That day put in December put all of the pieces of the puzzle together and I was able to put it all together to know everything, her gameplan then and when I found out. Yes, I did try to reconcile even after that but I'm glad I know what I know now.
> 
> I have read those books and I have IC. Maybe what might be hard to understand is that I don't need anyone to make me happy. I will be just as happy with my kids and myself when it comes to me. I did this, well at least I thought I was doing this for my kids and for her. I was raised to do things for people because it needed to be done and because it was the right thing to do and expect nothing in return. I learned through counseling and through books that while that's great for parenting, it's not totally healthy in a relationship because it's ok to expect things in return. The home I grew up in is not how every household will be. I grew up in a house with two totally different parents that made it work and loved each other for their differences because they were both mentally strong. My dad did everything for my mom that he could without expecting a damn thing in return and got reciprocated. It worked for them, it didn't work for us. She kept wanting more and more and whatever I did was wrong. I should have stood up for myself a long time ago but instead I just took it as she was a different animal and I had to let her be her. I was still happy to be honest because I don't need others to make me happy.
> 
> If there was any unhappiness on my part and this is what I always told her, I just wanted her to be happy. I have learned through IC that I could be have been different, I could have done a lot of things different but chances are we would have ended up with the same result because the issues were never on what I said and did, they lie within the person itself and until those issues are addressed, she'll continue to push the real cause of her hurt, depression and insecurities away. They were there before I met her and they will be there after. I hope she gets help eventually but every professional I have talked to said it's going to take a significant life changing event to spark it!


Sorry I hate to be mean but don't feed me a bunch of bull-- and tell me it's candy. 

Her is the deal you don't stick up for yourself. You allow others to bully you. Your wife has bullied you completely. It hurt your marriage. Being unassertive is makes you unattractive (especially to women who want strong men, passive men make them feel unsafe and unloved). It is also a magnet to attract the type of women and men who will exploit it. This passiveness is not because you are nice or it's the right thing to do it's because you don't feel you worthy of standing up for yourself. Why are you not worthy of a wife who doesn't screw around and lie to you for years? Why doesn't that make you incredibly angry? That would be the healthy response. Instead you try to intellectualize it like you do in this post. But I believe this is because you don't want to face it. 

Something is wrong dude, a man who is your wife's lover convinced you to let him say goodbye to her, after they both lied and disrespected you for months? No one thinks this is a good thing. No one thinks this is chivalrous. No one thinks that was the right choice. You have a whole long thread were everyone told you the same thing I am telling you now. Basically the same advice for pages and pages. Like here you told us all we were wrong and you knew you were doing the best thing. However being assertive may not have worked to fix this (debatable) but at the very least it would have gotten out of this situation much quicker, and besides that you know what? You have no idea it wouldn't. I can show you about 100 threads where being assertive DID fix situations similar as this. I remember in the other thread this was even one of her complaints about you. You are not responsible for the cheating, she is still and *******, and I am sorry it happened. But I can understand why someone would be turned off by these qualities. 

We told you over and over to fight. You didn't and now we are telling you that in the future you need to fight or you will end up in the same situation again with someone else. Being assertive is like being disciplined it is just a necessary quality to be really successful in relationships and in life. Ultimately your reaction to this has never been a healthy or even just a good strategy. Being stubbornly weak is a recipe to allowing yourself to be abused over and over. I also don't think you are stubborn because you think you are right, I think you are stubborn because you don't have the tools to be any different so you have to convince yourself you were right. You are playing a game here, but not facing the facts isn't really going to help you. That is why you need help, to get the tools. 

Here is the deal, your strategy failed spectacularly, you were in an abusive relationship for months and months. You were continuously lied to and disrespected, by your wife and her lover. You can try to convince everyone that you made the right choice but we all can see the emperor has no clothes. The only thing your strategy was successful in doing was allowing you to avoid conflict. This seems to to have been your ultimate goal the whole time. Everything has to be calm, you wife can't only get upset to a point. Her lover can only get upset to a point. But the most important conflict you are trying to avoid is the conflict of knowing that your actions are only hurting yourself. That you really need to do some hard work to fix yourself. That is the big one that you have done the most to avoid. We can all see it. There is something wrong with that, it's not healthy and it will only lead to failure. 

If you do not fix this you are going to end up attracting exactly the same women. Passive men get cheated on. Passive men attract cheaters. I believe wholeheartedly that you can fix it, but you have to acknowledge it's a problem first. 

last time, 2 books. 

Codependency No more.
Human magnet syndrome. 

And get a counselor who identifies this and helps you fix it. I know you are down, and I am really not trying to kick you, I feel terrible for you, but still wake up man! Please for your own sake.


----------



## Rob_1

I wonder if the OP was raised without the role model of a man; this could explains a lot of his inability to behave like most men would behave in this type of situations.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Sports Fan said:


> You are absoloutley correct that the main focus now are the two little people. Well done for having their best interest at heart in this most difficult time.
> 
> Given your comments regarding your wife's well paying job, i hope you have consulted a good attorney. Are you applying for majority custody of the children or at the very least joint custody? If your wife makes more then you and has to travel for work there is a good chance you might be awarded custody plus spousal support. Please engage the services of a good lawyer.


Going for joint legal and primary physical.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

sokillme said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get what you guys are saying and I played right into a heck of a situation but there's some reasons I'm glad I waited. Not until December 14th did I have the ultimate proof that I needed for closure and hopefully something beneficial for my case. Until then, all I had was a lot of gut feelings, small amounts of evidence and a lot of coincidental stuff. That day put in December put all of the pieces of the puzzle together and I was able to put it all together to know everything, her gameplan then and when I found out. Yes, I did try to reconcile even after that but I'm glad I know what I know now.
> 
> I have read those books and I have IC. Maybe what might be hard to understand is that I don't need anyone to make me happy. I will be just as happy with my kids and myself when it comes to me. I did this, well at least I thought I was doing this for my kids and for her. I was raised to do things for people because it needed to be done and because it was the right thing to do and expect nothing in return. I learned through counseling and through books that while that's great for parenting, it's not totally healthy in a relationship because it's ok to expect things in return. The home I grew up in is not how every household will be. I grew up in a house with two totally different parents that made it work and loved each other for their differences because they were both mentally strong. My dad did everything for my mom that he could without expecting a damn thing in return and got reciprocated. It worked for them, it didn't work for us. She kept wanting more and more and whatever I did was wrong. I should have stood up for myself a long time ago but instead I just took it as she was a different animal and I had to let her be her. I was still happy to be honest because I don't need others to make me happy.
> 
> If there was any unhappiness on my part and this is what I always told her, I just wanted her to be happy. I have learned through IC that I could be have been different, I could have done a lot of things different but chances are we would have ended up with the same result because the issues were never on what I said and did, they lie within the person itself and until those issues are addressed, she'll continue to push the real cause of her hurt, depression and insecurities away. They were there before I met her and they will be there after. I hope she gets help eventually but every professional I have talked to said it's going to take a significant life changing event to spark it!
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I hate to be mean but don't feed me a bunch of bull-- and tell me it's candy.
> 
> Her is the deal you don't stick up for yourself. You allow others to bully you. Your wife has bullied you completely. It hurt your marriage. Being unassertive is makes you unattractive (especially to women who want strong men, passive men make them feel unsafe and unloved). It is also a magnet to attract the type of women and men who will exploit it. This passiveness is not because you are nice or it's the right thing to do it's because you don't feel you worthy of standing up for yourself. Why are you not worthy of a wife who doesn't screw around and lie to you for years? Why doesn't that make you incredibly angry? That would be the healthy response. Instead you try to intellectualize it like you do in this post. But I believe this is because you don't want to face it.
> 
> Something is wrong dude, a man who is your wife's lover convinced you to let him say goodbye to her, after they both lied and disrespected you for months? No one thinks this is a good thing. No one thinks this is chivalrous. No one thinks that was the right choice. You have a whole long thread were everyone told you the same thing I am telling you now. Basically the same advice for pages and pages. Like here you told us all we were wrong and you knew you were doing the best thing. However being assertive may not have worked to fix this (debatable) but at the very least it would have gotten out of this situation much quicker, and besides that you know what? You have no idea it wouldn't. I can show you about 100 threads where being assertive DID fix situations similar as this. I remember in the other thread this was even one of her complaints about you. You are not responsible for the cheating, she is still and *******, and I am sorry it happened. But I can understand why someone would be turned off by these qualities.
> 
> We told you over and over to fight. You didn't and now we are telling you that in the future you need to fight or you will end up in the same situation again with someone else. Being assertive is like being disciplined it is just a necessary quality to be really successful in relationships and in life. Ultimately your reaction to this has never been a healthy or even just a good strategy. Being stubbornly weak is a recipe to allowing yourself to be abused over and over. I also don't think you are stubborn because you think you are right, I think you are stubborn because you don't have the tools to be any different so you have to convince yourself you were right. You are playing a game here, but not facing the facts isn't really going to help you. That is why you need help, to get the tools.
> 
> Here is the deal, your strategy failed spectacularly, you were in an abusive relationship for months and months. You were continuously lied to and disrespected, by your wife and her lover. You can try to convince everyone that you made the right choice but we all can see the emperor has no clothes. The only thing your strategy was successful in doing was allowing you to avoid conflict. This seems to to have been your ultimate goal the whole time. Everything has to be calm, you wife can't only get upset to a point. Her lover can only get upset to a point. But the most important conflict you are trying to avoid is the conflict of knowing that your actions are only hurting yourself. That you really need to do some hard work to fix yourself. That is the big one that you have done the most to avoid. We can all see it. There is something wrong with that, it's not healthy and it will only lead to failure.
> 
> If you do not fix this you are going to end up attracting exactly the same women. Passive men get cheated on. Passive men attract cheaters. I believe wholeheartedly that you can fix it, but you have to acknowledge it's a problem first.
> 
> last time, 2 books.
> 
> Codependency No more.
> Human magnet syndrome.
> 
> And get a counselor who identifies this and helps you fix it. I know you are down, and I am really not trying to kick you, I feel terrible for you, but still wake up man! Please for your own sake.
Click to expand...

Good Stuff here. There is something not right about being ok with how I was treated during the relationship. That's why I will not be in one for quite some time until I figure out what I really want for myself and in another person way down the road. Need to show kids that it's good to set boundaries and stick up for oneself.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Rob_1 said:


> I wonder if the OP was raised without the role model of a man; this could explains a lot of his inability to behave like most men would behave in this type of situations.


That's the thing. Had a great strong dad and brother 7 years my senior as role models in my life that both said they wouldn't put up with this but both know im a different cat and told me to follow what my heart says. Neither knew the extent of the deceit however til middle December as did I. And like everyone else including me, it took so long to rationalize how someone so smart and someone who is completely different at different times could really be this way but like my counselor said she really is 2 different people. Sweet, charming and innocent to those she wishes to show the persona to and insecure, self centered, stubborn and fragile to only a select few.


----------



## GusPolinski

stillfightingforus said:


> I think that is why, in some part, the other parts or just plain irrational that she played down the affair so much EVEN after I knew everything, is that because since *they didn't have P to V intercourse* that it wasn't as bad as it should have been. However, like you said, the pining since 2009 the things she actually said to them hurt me a lot worse than just plain physical contact could have ever done. I'm in counseling and I would like to believe I wouldn't fall into a relationship like this again, not that - that is even on my radar in the near future but I tried to keep this marriage together because of what I believe in and my vows, my kids and the fact that it was already so much put into it. If this was just us or a bf/gf relationship, I would have been long gone.
> 
> I'm hoping to hear back from my priest. I mean if he's really nonchalant about this ... that adds to the pain


Or — and this is just an idea — they did.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

I really respect and like our priest, as he married us and he's been our priest for almost 2 decades now. I just got word from the school principal that in order for my wife still to participate in mass and with the church, in the matter of infidelity she needs to reconcile. Obviously that hasn't happened and was one-sided before the divorce papers were picked up by her yesterday. Just wondering if I should even bother pointing this out to Father or give him another day or 2 to respond to my email to him 2 days ago about all this.


----------



## Nucking Futs

stillfightingforus said:


> I really respect and like our priest, as he married us and he's been our priest for almost 2 decades now. I just got word from the school principal that in order for my wife still to participate in mass and with the church, in the matter of infidelity she needs to reconcile. Obviously that hasn't happened and was one-sided before the divorce papers were picked up by her yesterday. Just wondering if I should even bother pointing this out to Father or give him another day or 2 to respond to my email to him 2 days ago about all this.


If it's been two days on this and you haven't heard back from him then you need to kick it up a level. Kick it up to his bishop.


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> I really respect and like our priest, as he married us and he's been our priest for almost 2 decades now. I just got word from the school principal that in order for my wife still to participate in mass and with the church, in the matter of infidelity she needs to reconcile. Obviously that hasn't happened and was one-sided before the divorce papers were picked up by her yesterday. Just wondering if I should even bother pointing this out to Father or give him another day or 2 to respond to my email to him 2 days ago about all this.


So that means that the school principal knows about your wife's affair? If so, I bet your priest is not aware of what's going on. When are you going to seek an annulment?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really respect and like our priest, as he married us and he's been our priest for almost 2 decades now. I just got word from the school principal that in order for my wife still to participate in mass and with the church, in the matter of infidelity she needs to reconcile. Obviously that hasn't happened and was one-sided before the divorce papers were picked up by her yesterday. Just wondering if I should even bother pointing this out to Father or give him another day or 2 to respond to my email to him 2 days ago about all this.
> 
> 
> 
> So that means that the school principal knows about your wife's affair? If so, I bet your priest is not aware of what's going on. When are you going to seek an annulment?
Click to expand...

I've kept him in the loop via email after our first meeting and told him everything but have no idea what she told him. She was at another planning meeting just tonight. Principal does know everything so I could have her and my kid's teachers look out for odd behavior from kids. Thankfully nothing yet!


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> I've kept him in the loop via email after our first meeting and told him everything but have no idea what she told him. She was at another planning meeting just tonight. Principal does know everything so I could have her and my kid's teachers look out for odd behavior from kids. Thankfully nothing yet!


I think the annulment process with its written testimony about your wife's state of mind when she married you would be a nice bucket of ice water on her and would be very sobering for her parents and anyone else who knows her.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've kept him in the loop via email after our first meeting and told him everything but have no idea what she told him. She was at another planning meeting just tonight. Principal does know everything so I could have her and my kid's teachers look out for odd behavior from kids. Thankfully nothing yet!
> 
> 
> 
> I think the annulment process with its written testimony about your wife's state of mind when she married you would be a nice bucket of ice water on her and would be very sobering for her parents and anyone else who knows her.
Click to expand...

Apparently she talked to him about the annulment process from her end and he said only if you there wasn't love in the marriage so then she went on the path of she got married because all of her friends were and she felt pressured from family. Trust me ... There was no pressure from me. But whatever means justifies the ends in her mind now.


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> Apparently she talked to him about the annulment process from her end and he said only if you there wasn't love in the marriage so then she went on the path of she got married because all of her friends were and she felt pressured from family. Trust me ... There was no pressure from me. But whatever means justifies the ends in her mind now.


So what are you waiting for? Make an honest woman out of her! File.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently she talked to him about the annulment process from her end and he said only if you there wasn't love in the marriage so then she went on the path of she got married because all of her friends were and she felt pressured from family. Trust me ... There was no pressure from me. But whatever means justifies the ends in her mind now.
> 
> 
> 
> So what are you waiting for? Make an honest woman out of her! File.
Click to expand...

Not sure you saw my previous posts on this thread. We are long past that lol. She picked up the papers on Wednesday at my lawyers office and now she is on her way to 'happiness'


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> Not sure you saw my previous posts on this thread. We are long past that lol. She picked up the papers on Wednesday at my lawyers office and now she is on her way to 'happiness'


I did. But I would think you would want to be remarried in the Catholic Church whenever that time occurs.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure you saw my previous posts on this thread. We are long past that lol. She picked up the papers on Wednesday at my lawyers office and now she is on her way to 'happiness'
> 
> 
> 
> I did. But I would think you would want to be remarried in the Catholic Church whenever that time occurs.
Click to expand...

Ah. I see what you are saying. Yes. If it ever came to that I would although far from my mind now. It's going to take years just to make sure my kids get through this ok.


----------



## Malaise

stillfightingforus said:


> I've kept him in the loop via email after our first meeting and told him everything but have no idea what she told him.
> 
> *What would you bet she wasn't entirely honest with him?* *Talk to him, find out.
> *
> 
> She was at another planning meeting just tonight. Principal does know everything so I could have her and my kid's teachers look out for odd behavior from kids. Thankfully nothing yet!


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Damn reading OP original post really pissed me off.... What the hell happens to this people when they cheat?? They say the stupidest nonsense I ever heard, and is like they dont really care about what they say...
The fog must be thick in them. I mean my W was no angel and said vile crap too, but to tell you that you never were her love and the marriage was a fake!?!? Man thats some crazy stuff.
I would definitely D and at least a year to even try to see if you see a hint of a totally reformed person in her, even then would be very small steps very slow..... Thats assuming u still care at all for her, but you might be with someone better by then.... 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## SentHereForAReason

On Friday she retained a lawyer on her side as well. It's probably a smart move because she knows what my gameplan is for the most part and a lot of who I am running it because I was flat out honest with her during the period where I was still working on keeping this together (up until last Monday).

The last 4 or so days have been a bit easier but I understandably hit points of pain and sorrow, when I hear a song, see a picture, a movie, a clip. stuff that brings up memories or reminders of her. Back to how it's getting easier though. As of right now, what brought me pain over the last 7 months is now sort of bringing me anger. I'm seeing things that she did in a different light. They were bad before but since I was trying to save the marriage, I moved past it. Now the incidents and the betrayals, etc. are now making me mad and angry. Not so that it gets me off track but more or less makes each day a lot more bearable and my goals hyper-focused.

She's talking more and more to her 'friend' that was the messenger between her and her 'love' in the week period where the wife found and and when they met to supposedly go their separate ways. When I was monitoring the texts, you could tell my wife was using him for that purpose but now I think she's using him as sort of a rebound or a filler until she finds the next best thing or deep down if she believes that her 'love' will still leave his wife down the road.

It's also a lot easier to go through the day when she's in a bad mood or when she's quick tempered and upset with me, it makes me stronger and kind of like feeds my motivation. It's when she's happy and on the phone and laughing every 2 seconds where it drives me nuts.

We have our friend of the court hearing in less than 10 days now.

My 2 biggest concerns that I will be addressing this week will be that it seemed like my priest is 'ok' with this. We were in Church on Saturday and (current)wife still went up and got communion and she's still attending all the committee and planning meetings. I'm going to ask him to meet in person this week to see what I can find out instead of speculating.

My other concern is that my lawyer came in highly regarded and highly respected and I was very impressed with her in person but she's not exactly responding to my emails very quickly and I have some questions and guidance that I need.

My (current)wife is dramatically changing her daily routines and is being hyper-sensitive to the kids' needs every since I told her I turned in a log of her activities to my lawyer on how she acts and what she does during the day and night. She's now taking the kids to school AND picking them up. She's making dinners more and trying to spend more time with them. Don't get me wrong, she loves these kids but in the past 7 months, her #1 priority and mindset was seeing, talking and thinking about Mr. Douche. Now that his wife put the clamps down, she doesn't have to go out on the road that as much, is coming home earlier and since she is no longer cooking a bunch of stuff for him, she has time to cook more for the kids. I want to make sure that this is highly noted with the court that this behavior change is coming from her not being able to use her time and resources with the AP.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus, change churches if her relationship at the present one with the priest bothers you. You have zero control on how others deal with you both during your separation/divorce. You have to get use to that. If your kids go with you both to church come up with a schedule fast on who gets the kids on what weekends. Take them to a new church. Remember, going forward she has zero say on what you do with your kids on your time. Of course the reverse is true also. 

I suggest you also have his/her weekdays with the kids as well. You cook for them on your days She can go eat a slice of pizza alone.

She wants this divorce, that is what it looks like. The sooner everyone gets use to living with the reality of 2 homes/separate lives the better. Don't ***** foot around on this waiting for her to change her mind. She has spoken loud and clear what her priorities are and you are not on any real list. Now you must do the same as for her for yourself and your relationship with your children as a father.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> stillfightingforus, change churches if her relationship at the present one with the priest bothers you. You have zero control on how others deal with you both during your separation/divorce. You have to get use to that. If your kids go with you both to church come up with a schedule fast on who gets the kids on what weekends. Take them to a new church. Remember, going forward she has zero say on what you do with your kids on your time. Of course the reverse is true also.
> 
> I suggest you also have his/her weekdays with the kids as well. You cook for them on your days She can go eat a slice of pizza alone.
> 
> She wants this divorce, that is what it looks like. The sooner everyone gets use to living with the reality of 2 homes/separate lives the better. Don't ***** foot around on this waiting for her to change her mind. She has spoken loud and clear what her priorities are and you are not on any real list. Now you must do the same as for her for yourself and your relationship with your children as a father.


Thanks for the advice. Church issue is more difficult than normal since church is parent organization of my kids school and connected to it.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Ask the Priest what his position is on unrepentant adulteresses accepting communion and being active on committee and planning meetings. 

I believe the Priest cannot tell you what she has confessed to in the confessional. I am assuming this is a Catholic church. If he tells you that he can do nothing about anything just tell him her unrepentant adultery is too much for you to witness with your kids in church of all places and on your days with your children you will be using another church. No need for them to change schools. They squawk on that ask for a meetup with the bishop and then a cardinal. By that point she will be asked to lower her profile in the church until the divorce is settled.


----------



## eric1

The answer for the church is to disinfect it with sunlight. Tell everyone you know ‘for support’. The priest WILL NOT make an unpopular opinion.

Annulment and rug sweeping are currently the path of least resistance for him. I’m not saying to be a jerk, but use the crowd effect to provide impact to your desired outcome.

Also if she’s still talking to that dude his wife should know


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

agreed


----------



## SentHereForAReason

eric1 said:


> The answer for the church is to disinfect it with sunlight. Tell everyone you know ‘for support’. The priest WILL NOT make an unpopular opinion.
> 
> Annulment and rug sweeping are currently the path of least resistance for him. I’m not saying to be a jerk, but use the crowd effect to provide impact to your desired outcome.
> 
> Also if she’s still talking to that dude his wife should know


Well at least this friend is already divorced or just broke up with wife or girlfriend and has a fee young kids of his own so he's single. I did get that from reading texts during the monitor phase.


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> Well at least this friend is already divorced or just broke up with wife or girlfriend and has a fee young kids of his own so he's single. I did get that from reading texts during the monitor phase.


How's your self confidence? I think you should go to gym or something. Take your mind off things, you've been blown out of the water. Seems like your dealing with the nightmare 24/7 and not having any time away from it.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

tom72 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well at least this friend is already divorced or just broke up with wife or girlfriend and has a fee young kids of his own so he's single. I did get that from reading texts during the monitor phase.
> 
> 
> 
> How's your self confidence? I think you should go to gym or something. Take your mind off things, you've been blown out of the water. Seems like your dealing with the nightmare 24/7 and not having any time away from it.
Click to expand...

Outside if this nightmare ... Not bad. Just need to get my *ss more involved in my work so I can start feeling good about that aspect to take my mind off things. I work out everyday of my of so that aspect hasn't changed. I play basketball with the kids at the college I work at along with weight training. Recently changed my workout program to give me something to strive towards. I'm on a bulking and muscle building 10 week plan and then I'll go back to more cardio and cutting. One good thing is during the past 7 months i would look at another woman at the gym or wherever and get a sick feeling just thinking about trying to move on. Now I'm looking at women like a normal man would. Noticing attractive women and smiling again. No actions just the sense of a normal male I would say and briefs glimpses into the future of what dating, etc will look like when I'm way past this. Even when divorce is final it's going to be a long time until I think about dating so I can focus on kids well being, counselling and just trying to make them feel comfortable amidst the trouble they will be going through and that hurts more now than the hurt that still may be left over when I think about what could have been with wife.


----------



## Taxman

stillfightingforus, as many here know, my practice encompasses a great number of matrimonial cases. In the last ten years, I think I have seen everything. I read both of your threads, and unless I have missed something, there will be a tectonic shift very soon. I have a client, very much like you. He fought for nearly three years, she was having a long-term physical affair, but she was ingenious in covering her tracks. In October of this year, the OBS contacted our client. It was all there, pictures emails, you name it. In very short order, she was removed from her home, he had owned it prior to the marriage. She moved into an efficiency, in hopes that her AP would leave his wife. My client went on a rampage and ensured that her family and friends would not speak to her any time soon. Her parents were disgusted by her. Her father told her that they would never speak again and her mother was beyond angry. Then, just before Christmas, the bomb dropped. Her AP decided to reconcile with his wife. He sent an NC email, basically telling her that she was his side piece, and she was not worth blowing up his marriage over. Essentially, thanks for the sex, and thank you for not charging for the sex. BOOM.

She spent Christmas and New Years alone, nobody talking to her, her lover and her husband both gone. On January 2 she received a RO from the AP and his wife, and divorce papers from her husband. I believe that was the tectonic shift. On Friday of last week, he opened the door and saw her sitting in her car outside the house. She spotted him, and came running up. She was begging and pleading for another chance, she was absolutely desperate. Then his new GF came to the door. He had wasted no time, he took up with an old flame, and things progressed quickly. The new GF closed the door on the STBXW. XWW has contacted just about every professional involved with the case, trying to now break up her husband and his new GF. Too bad, so sad, if you wanna dance you gotta pay the man.

Stillfightingforus, bet she will have a come to Jesus moment when she is truly alone. The affair confused her, she could not go with the other guy until she convinced herself that the marriage was over. This takes a while to filter into the brainpan, but, I will wager that sometime after the divorce papers are served and she understands that the marriage will be dissolved by the church, she will have that moment. Me? I would treat her similarly, let her know what it feels like to be held in limbo.


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## SentHereForAReason

Taxman said:


> stillfightingforus, as many here know, my practice encompasses a great number of matrimonial cases. In the last ten years, I think I have seen everything. I read both of your threads, and unless I have missed something, there will be a tectonic shift very soon. I have a client, very much like you. He fought for nearly three years, she was having a long-term physical affair, but she was ingenious in covering her tracks. In October of this year, the OBS contacted our client. It was all there, pictures emails, you name it. In very short order, she was removed from her home, he had owned it prior to the marriage. She moved into an efficiency, in hopes that her AP would leave his wife. My client went on a rampage and ensured that her family and friends would not speak to her any time soon. Her parents were disgusted by her. Her father told her that they would never speak again and her mother was beyond angry. Then, just before Christmas, the bomb dropped. Her AP decided to reconcile with his wife. He sent an NC email, basically telling her that she was his side piece, and she was not worth blowing up his marriage over. Essentially, thanks for the sex, and thank you for not charging for the sex. BOOM.
> 
> She spent Christmas and New Years alone, nobody talking to her, her lover and her husband both gone. On January 2 she received a RO from the AP and his wife, and divorce papers from her husband. I believe that was the tectonic shift. On Friday of last week, he opened the door and saw her sitting in her car outside the house. She spotted him, and came running up. She was begging and pleading for another chance, she was absolutely desperate. Then his new GF came to the door. He had wasted no time, he took up with an old flame, and things progressed quickly. The new GF closed the door on the STBXW. XWW has contacted just about every professional involved with the case, trying to now break up her husband and his new GF. Too bad, so sad, if you wanna dance you gotta pay the man.
> 
> Stillfightingforus, bet she will have a come to Jesus moment when she is truly alone. The affair confused her, she could not go with the other guy until she convinced herself that the marriage was over. This takes a while to filter into the brainpan, but, I will wager that sometime after the divorce papers are served and she understands that the marriage will be dissolved by the church, she will have that moment. Me? I would treat her similarly, let her know what it feels like to be held in limbo.


I think she has yet to feel much consequence. I think that will probably begin when we have to tell the kids but she has spent the past 7 months convincing herself that this will be better for the kids, I think that is the last hurdle she had to clear. She convinced herself early in those 7 months this would be better for her. I think, she thinks she has already faced all of the negative stuff or that she is prepared and ready for it in her mind. Her grandparents although upset, aren't treating her any different and are back to babying her. Her Father is disappointed and loves her but wants little to do with her right now and can't believe this is his daughter based upon how she was raised. (Her mom passed away about 20 years ago). Her sister is extremely disappointed but is still doing things with her at the request of their grandparents. And her Brother in law is pretty much done with her for good. It's a mixed bag on that side, very small family but tight knit so the divide has caused some conflict among-st themselves as well. I was told by her father that when she was young and when he and her mother would try to discipline her, her grandmother would come and bail her out and make her feel better. (no consequences) 

As for friends, she has a few helping her, most don't know the extent of what she did but an idea but for the most part believe she was just not happy. Her main friend helping her, is one that has had several affairs herself. The rest of this 'support' group are either divorced and or have been. She has crafted it this way on purpose as you can imagine.

I believe it will eventually hit her but who knows how long it will take. Months, years, etc. She is so hardened by this in her opinion and mind, very stubborn in general and strong willed when it comes to her decisions in her mind. She is one that hates to admit when she's wrong and might escape feeling real bad about this for a long time just to prove she isn't wrong ... to herself.

My focus in on the kids and keeping this house for them. 

One thing I go in and out of is being somewhat nice, which I have been. I talk to her about the kids and meals each day, say good morning and goodnight. OR do I just go to the extreme bare minimum of talk. Trying to go out with my head held high and acting myself but wondering if it would help myself more to not treat her bad but just go almost unavailable outside of kids convo. Like I said, we still talk about meals and very little else.


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## Edmund

stillfightingforus said:


> On Friday she retained a lawyer on her side as well. It's probably a smart move because *she knows what my gameplan is for the most part *and a lot of who I am running it because I was flat out honest with her during the period where I was still working on keeping this together (up until last Monday).
> 
> ...
> 
> My (current)wife is dramatically changing her daily routines and is being hyper-sensitive to the kids' needs every since *I told her I turned in a log of her activities to my lawyer on how she acts and what she does during the day and night. * She's now taking the kids to school AND picking them up. She's making dinners more and trying to spend more time with them. Don't get me wrong, she loves these kids but in the past 7 months, her #1 priority and mindset was seeing, talking and thinking about Mr. Douche. Now that his wife put the clamps down, she doesn't have to go out on the road that as much, is coming home earlier and since she is no longer cooking a bunch of stuff for him, she has time to cook more for the kids. I want to make sure that this is highly noted with the court that this behavior change is coming from her not being able to use her time and resources with the AP.


SFFU,

I hope you are not in our military because you seem to be unable to refrain from giving all of your plans to the enemy in advance of the battle.

If you go extremely tough on her now like Taxman's clients you might even get her back at some point after the divorce. But don't ever marry her again.

Good luck.


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## SentHereForAReason

Edmund said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday she retained a lawyer on her side as well. It's probably a smart move because *she knows what my gameplan is for the most part *and a lot of who I am running it because I was flat out honest with her during the period where I was still working on keeping this together (up until last Monday).
> 
> ...
> 
> My (current)wife is dramatically changing her daily routines and is being hyper-sensitive to the kids' needs every since *I told her I turned in a log of her activities to my lawyer on how she acts and what she does during the day and night. * She's now taking the kids to school AND picking them up. She's making dinners more and trying to spend more time with them. Don't get me wrong, she loves these kids but in the past 7 months, her #1 priority and mindset was seeing, talking and thinking about Mr. Douche. Now that his wife put the clamps down, she doesn't have to go out on the road that as much, is coming home earlier and since she is no longer cooking a bunch of stuff for him, she has time to cook more for the kids. I want to make sure that this is highly noted with the court that this behavior change is coming from her not being able to use her time and resources with the AP.
> 
> 
> 
> SFFU,
> 
> I hope you are not in our military because you seem to be unable to refrain from giving all of your plans to the enemy in advance of the battle.
> 
> If you go extremely tough on her now like Taxman's clients you might even get her back at some point after the divorce. But don't ever marry her again.
> 
> Good luck.
Click to expand...

Lol. No not in the military. My dad his dad and his dad before him were. Great war and history stories with those guys. I'll just say this though my greatest strategies in life are letting the other side think they know ALL of my plans


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## Taxman

Edmund, thank you for your insight.
Based on my experience, there will be something fairly soon. SFFU needs to start turning people away from her. Complete exposure to friends does this. Social isolation tends to lead to introspection. Conclusions are not to hard to draw from that point onward. I suggest that SFFU give her some dire consequences to her actions.


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## SentHereForAReason

I had what you would call a baby step yesterday that while minuit I was happy about. She asked me at one point while we were alone in the kitchen. Is there anything you want to talk about? I said nope and just kept on doing what I was doing. No regrets either ... Felt good


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## SentHereForAReason

One thing I have debated on doing but it would seem out of character for me and more out of spite is to reach out to her best friend who was helping me in the early stages and tell her;

I hope you have seen how destructive affairs can be and I hope you discontinue your own affairs for the sake of your children and your husband so you can be someone they look up to through and through. Her best friend is also Catholic but has been in a few affairs over the past few years and even was contemplating leaving her husband in the Spring of '16 and maybe even more recently but I'm not sure on that.

I appreciated her help through the first few months but I stopped talking to her once I realized that she is going to be loyal to her best friend no matter what and she was someone they could confide in each other about and feel good about themselves and justify the affairs they were carrying on. She also accused me of making reconciliation difficult because I told people in the family about the affair and it was really a matter "of just us 2" and telling on her "was a little much". She said she wouldn't have had to be deceitful and lie to her family and friends over the past 7 months if I hadn't of told them. She said one good thing to come out of this however, was now they know how judgemental her family can be and have shown their true colors lol. Yup, my fault for trying to save the marriage and expose it, thanks!

Doesn't serve my main purpose now to do everything for my kids and get primary custody along with keeping them in our current house but at times it would feel good to almost tell her off but wonder if it would make me feel worse in the long run. The first friend of the court hearing got delayed because her lawyer came on board late in the process and requested the delay. This is going to be a long next 6 months if we have to go the full term of the divorce waiting period in this state .... now that it's over, I just want it to go by as soon as possible so I don't have to be reminded everyday of the betrayal. 

I have been working more towards detachment. At first, I wanted to be really nice and cordial but after looking back at the evidence and the messages between them as I assemble them for possible use, it just gets me more and more upset at what she caused and while I won't be mean. My conversations have been limited to this over the past few days. Have a good one as I fly out the door, are you getting the kids from school or am I in the afternoon and good night at night as I walk past the room and into the living room to begin my nightly activities after the kids go to bed.


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## CantBelieveThis

Act like the 180 says.... Indifference is key

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## SentHereForAReason

She just called me on the phone to remind me that she needs access to our shared accounts, etc.

Then she goes into a bit about how we still need to be respectful to each other especially for the kids benefit. I am just saying ok, uh huh, I understand and finally just said you don't have to tell me. (as in I understand, not in a mean voice).

She said if she is being mean or disrespectful I need to pull her aside and let her know because she is not doing it on purpose.

Trust me, I'm not being mean by any stretch but I'm trying to avoid being around her and only talking to her about what is necessary to talk about, kids and what to do with kids for fun on weekend, etc.


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## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> She just called me on the phone to remind me that she needs access to our shared accounts, etc.
> 
> Then she goes into a bit about how we still need to be respectful to each other especially for the kids benefit. I am just saying ok, uh huh, I understand and finally just said you don't have to tell me. (as in I understand, not in a mean voice).
> 
> She said if she is being mean or disrespectful I need to pull her aside and let her know because she is not doing it on purpose.
> 
> Trust me, I'm not being mean by any stretch but I'm trying to avoid being around her and only talking to her about what is necessary to talk about, kids and what to do with kids for fun on weekend, etc.


Unless it is an emergency involving the kids, don't talk on the phone. Email or text.


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## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> Unless it is an emergency involving the kids, don't talk on the phone. Email or text.


Even though we are living in the same home for about the next 5 months?


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## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> Even though we are living in the same home for about the next 5 months?


Did not know that was the living situation. Yes, be a cordial as possible. For me though, any niceties that you once had done for her are now over.


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## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> Did not know that was the living situation. Yes, be a cordial as possible. For me though, any niceties that you once had done for her are now over.


Gotcha! Yes, just trying to be myself without being an intentional *ick. But also to get the point across that I know you are done and over with me but this isn't going to be on all your terms. She still doesn't even really see herself in a negative light. The affair was just sort of a by-product.


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## Lostinthought61

you mention this other guy she is talking too...have you two discussed how you will handle seeing other people during the next 5 months?

sorry also have you informed the OM's wife about your status so she knows that your getting a divorce...she may want to be on the lookout


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## SentHereForAReason

Lostinthought61 said:


> you mention this other guy she is talking too...have you two discussed how you will handle seeing other people during the next 5 months?
> 
> sorry also have you informed the OM's wife about your status so she knows that your getting a divorce...she may want to be on the lookout


She knows, he told her and she told me that they had their meeting to go their separate ways. I think he will try to do whatever he can when it cools down but never leave his wife permanently and I would think my wife no matter what she says to me or herself is still hoping that in time they will be together 'forever'.

We have not talked about seeing other people over the next 5 months, I wouldn't trust anything she says anyhow. I will not be seeing anyone for quite some time, even after the formal divorce. Kids need to know they are the real focus at least on my end.


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## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> Gotcha! Yes, just trying to be myself without being an intentional *ick. But also to get the point across that I know you are done and over with me but this isn't going to be on all your terms. She still doesn't even really see herself in a negative light. The affair was just sort of a by-product.


There is intentional and then there is "that party is over." I recall my BIL XW thinking he was going to continue to cut the lawn at their marital home(that he had to leave for the D to go through). Yeah, that party was over. Some just don't get it. So she is putting on the good face. Eventually it all comes down. Just a matter of time. So, when the call comes with that question, "Can you drop by the store on the way home I need a haircare product...." Yeah, that party is over.


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## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> There is intentional and then there is "that party is over." I recall my BIL XW thinking he was going to continue to cut the lawn at their marital home(that he had to leave for the D to go through). Yeah, that party was over. Some just don't get it. So she is putting on the good face. Eventually it all comes down. Just a matter of time. So, when the call comes with that question, "Can you drop by the store on the way home I need a haircare product...." Yeah, that party is over.


I will get the stuff she has on the list for the groceries since I do the grocery shopping for the family but I can see what you are saying here. Essentially the best way to live is live like we are already divorced and out of the house?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> She just called me on the phone to remind me that she needs access to our shared accounts, etc.
> 
> Then she goes into a bit about how we still need to be respectful to each other especially for the kids benefit. I am just saying ok, uh huh, I understand and finally just said you don't have to tell me. (as in I understand, not in a mean voice).
> 
> *She said if she is being mean or disrespectful I need to pull her aside and let her know because she is not doing it on purpose.*
> 
> Trust me, I'm not being mean by any stretch but I'm trying to avoid being around her and only talking to her about what is necessary to talk about, kids and what to do with kids for fun on weekend, etc.


This is laughable. She carries on an affair lying to your face for almost a decade and needs clarification on being mean or disrespectful!!! 

Ok.. How to reply to that. 

Look down, shake your head no, say nothing, turn around and walk away.


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## SentHereForAReason

Today is my dad's birthday. I wanted to take the kids over there to drop off some homemade cards and have them spend time with Grandma and Grandpa but without her. However, I still have a good relationship with her family and most openly want me to visit, etc. Should I feel bad about not inviting her along? I guess I'll just ask my parents but they have taken my lead on all of this and probably wouldn't mind either way but it won't hurt to ask what they actually want. They were still very supportive of her up until they last spoke on Christmas about being there to talk if she needed, even knowing everything she had done. I haven't asked anyone to do anything for me, de-friend on FB, be nasty, cold, etc. A few people wanted to give her a piece of their mind, especially my best friend. We are the God Parents of their son and he wanted to tell her how bad of choice they made in that but I didn't think it was worth it. A family member that has helped me through the process said it's not my place to hold them back but it would be best served after the D.


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## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> I will get the stuff she has on the list for the groceries since I do the grocery shopping for the family but I can see what you are saying here. Essentially the best way to live is live like we are already divorced and out of the house?


Yes sir. As best you can.


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## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> Today is my dad's birthday. I wanted to take the kids over there to drop off some homemade cards and have them spend time with Grandma and Grandpa but without her. However, I still have a good relationship with her family and most openly want me to visit, etc. Should I feel bad about not inviting her along? I guess I'll just ask my parents but they have taken my lead on all of this and probably wouldn't mind either way but it won't hurt to ask what they actually want. They were still very supportive of her up until they last spoke on Christmas about being there to talk if she needed, even knowing everything she had done. I haven't asked anyone to do anything for me, de-friend on FB, be nasty, cold, etc. A few people wanted to give her a piece of their mind, especially my best friend. We are the God Parents of their son and he wanted to tell her how bad of choice they made in that but I didn't think it was worth it. A family member that has helped me through the process said it's not my place to hold them back but it would be best served after the D.


Nope. Don't ask her. That party is over. The kids birthdays you attempt to do together. Beyond that, nope.


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## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> Nope. Don't ask her. That party is over. The kids birthdays you attempt to do together. Beyond that, nope.


I like that saying ... "The Party's over!"


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## dubsey

if she says anything, just say "well, we're divorcing, no reason to pretend it's not happening with anyone. Your presence would just make it intentionally awkward, and that would be disrespectful"


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## Yeswecan

dubsey said:


> if she says anything, just say "well, we're divorcing, no reason to pretend it's not happening with anyone. Your presence would just make it intentionally awkward, and that would be disrespectful"


The thing with D is once what was a family is not now a family any longer. In the sense that SFFU parents were STBX family. Now that D is in the picture that portion of the STBX family is no longer her family. No, she is not invited to SFFU fathers b-day party. Unless his father wants her there but that would make SFFU feel out of place, awkward and just uncomfortable. D means just that. Separation. Each other respective family. At least IMO. Some do still talk with the X parents/siblings but what once was is no longer really. Invites are few if any at all.


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## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> The thing with D is once what was a family is not now a family any longer. In the sense that SFFU parents were STBX family. Now that D is in the picture that portion of the STBX family is no longer her family. No, she is not invited to SFFU fathers b-day party. Unless his father wants her there but that would make SFFU feel out of place, awkward and just uncomfortable. D means just that. Separation. Each other respective family. At least IMO. Some do still talk with the X parents/siblings but what once was is no longer really. Invites are few if any at all.


I know it will change, especially with extended family but as of now, her Father and his wife want to keep the relationship as much as the same as possible. Same with her Brother in Law. Her sister is indifferent and her Grand Parents I'm sure will change because even though they hate this and what she has done, they still coddle her just as they have her entire life. She has experienced some discomfort with her affair and lying to all of them for 7 months but not enough to make a dent because she still has her grand parents (2nd set of parents essentially) and her sister is following the orders from the grandma to stay involved. Her Dad will come around eventually I'm sure, it's his own flesh and blood but at this point wants little to do with her because of how she betrayed him deeply after their heart to heart talk in October and continued to deceive him. 

It will be interesting that is for sure. Sucks that I have felt all of the pain and discomfort, most of it anyway up until this point. She is so deep in her mind that she has done very little wrong and this is best to make her happy and healthy that she could care less what anyone else says, especially finding comfort with her best friend who stays with her husband but cheats behind his back. At first, her family was on board with giving her the cold shoulder collectively but understandably they grew weary of this over time and have their own lives and problem to lead. That is why I should have took a more active role in the discomfort process and now that I'm doing it, it's still good for me but hardly makes a difference for her other than pissing her off and making it seem even more justified on her affair and her decision to go forward with the divorce process, retain lawyer, sign papers, etc.


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## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> especially finding comfort with her best friend who stays with her husband but cheats behind his back.


Ah, the toxic friend. Birds of a feather as it were.


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## Chaparral

One of your answers to her and lodged in your mind is “you fired me from the husband job, your problems are of no concern to me and I have other fish to fry.”

When doing the 180, the goal is to move on as fast as possible and rid yourself of the pain. The 180 works best when you follow all of it, particularly the seemingly small things.

Her grandparents spoiled her and now this mess is the result.

What is the plan with your house? What are the living arrangements going to be? Why do you say the two of you have to live together for five more months?


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## SentHereForAReason

Chaparral said:


> One of your answers to her and lodged in your mind is “you fired me from the husband job, your problems are of no concern to me and I have other fish to fry.”
> 
> When doing the 180, the goal is to move on as fast as possible and rid yourself of the pain. The 180 works best when you follow all of it, particularly the seemingly small things.
> 
> Her grandparents spoiled her and now this mess is the result.
> 
> What is the plan with your house? What are the living arrangements going to be? Why do you say the two of you have to live together for five more months?


I'm going for the house when it comes to that part of the case. She told her dad she didn't want it and it was clear that when the affair was still in play she was house hunting with the other man. I'm Michigan it's a 6 month waiting period to get the divorce finalized. Its going to be an uphill battle to keep the house and I'll have to milk my retirement for it to pay her the equity but counselor said it was important to keep house for kids to at least keep that normalcy. Our house was built just 3 years ago. Our 'dream' house we had worked our lives for.


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## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> I'm going for the house when it comes to that part of the case. She told her dad she didn't want it and it was clear that when the affair was still in play she was house hunting with the other man. I'm Michigan it's a 6 month waiting period to get the divorce finalized. Its going to be an uphill battle to keep the house and I'll have to milk my retirement for it to pay her the equity but counselor said it was important to keep house for kids to at least keep that normalcy. Our house was built just 3 years ago. Our 'dream' house we had worked our lives for.


Take a realistic look at keeping the house from a financial, not emotional standpoint. Dream house can become nightmare in divorce very easily. I don't agree with the counselor saying keep it for kids and normalcy. Running yourself into the poor house to keep and maintain it won't help. Most lawyers will tell you if it makes economic sense then try and keep otherwise dump it. 

As the divorce progresses expect her to fight and want to have a much higher value than the house is really worth and it's very common for that to happen. Hire 3 real estate agents and have them appraise the house to sell, not what it's worth, they are two different numbers as your market may be hot or cold as far as selling.

In divorce you've got to separate emotions from financial decisions as much as you can but too many people I know have extended themselves out way too far trying to keep a house and regret it later.


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## SentHereForAReason

honcho said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going for the house when it comes to that part of the case. She told her dad she didn't want it and it was clear that when the affair was still in play she was house hunting with the other man. I'm Michigan it's a 6 month waiting period to get the divorce finalized. Its going to be an uphill battle to keep the house and I'll have to milk my retirement for it to pay her the equity but counselor said it was important to keep house for kids to at least keep that normalcy. Our house was built just 3 years ago. Our 'dream' house we had worked our lives for.
> 
> 
> 
> Take a realistic look at keeping the house from a financial, not emotional standpoint. Dream house can become nightmare in divorce very easily. I don't agree with the counselor saying keep it for kids and normalcy. Running yourself into the poor house to keep and maintain it won't help. Most lawyers will tell you if it makes economic sense then try and keep otherwise dump it.
> 
> As the divorce progresses expect her to fight and want to have a much higher value than the house is really worth and it's very common for that to happen. Hire 3 real estate agents and have them appraise the house to sell, not what it's worth, they are two different numbers as your market may be hot or cold as far as selling.
> 
> In divorce you've got to separate emotions from financial decisions as much as you can but too many people I know have extended themselves out way too far trying to keep a house and regret it later.
Click to expand...

So what's funny is your spot on with that thought, my lawyer actually did say that to me. Not to stretch myself so thin that I would put myself in the whole and be worse off in the long run. Long story short. I can afford the payments and bills without much issue. It's just going to take me using about half my retirement to give her the (50%) equity. I have about 14 years into the job. I'm 38 so I figure I still have a lot of time to make it up.


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## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> So what's funny is your spot on with that thought, my lawyer actually did say that to me. Not to stretch myself so thin that I would put myself in the whole and be worse off in the long run. Long story short. I can afford the payments and bills without much issue. It's just going to take me using about half my retirement to give her the (50%) equity. I have about 14 years into the job. I'm 38 so I figure I still have a lot of time to make it up.


Your already going to lose half that retirement acct to her in the divorce and I'd suggest you look for alternative means to the house money. If you have a good relationship with the bank refinancing would be a better alternative. Your retirement account should be the last resort. If she has a retirement account or other assets maybe allow her to keep them in exchange for keeping the home equity. These are things you need to go over with the lawyer and explore options. It's also another reason to get an true selling appraisal of the home.

In my area the market at the time of my divorce wasn't good, my house appraised for financing etc 50 grand more than the house would ever sell for and this was a bone on contention in my mess. Ironically when I had the house her side was insistent on the bank appraisal value till the day she decided she wanted the house then it magically went to the real estate agent appraisal. I let her have it for the lower price as it wouldn't sell for any more than that. Things are only worth what someone will pay in my world. 

From the emotional side I was happy to leave the home, I lived there a long time with her. Every room to me was filled with memories and good times. I couldn't walk into a room and not think about those things. The house became a trap of memories for me and a fresh start in a new home helped. It's something to think about. It's your "married dream home". Is it your single guy dream home? There no right or wrong answer, it's just things for you to think about to make the best decision for yourself.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

honcho said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what's funny is your spot on with that thought, my lawyer actually did say that to me. Not to stretch myself so thin that I would put myself in the whole and be worse off in the long run. Long story short. I can afford the payments and bills without much issue. It's just going to take me using about half my retirement to give her the (50%) equity. I have about 14 years into the job. I'm 38 so I figure I still have a lot of time to make it up.
> 
> 
> 
> Your already going to lose half that retirement acct to her in the divorce and I'd suggest you look for alternative means to the house money. If you have a good relationship with the bank refinancing would be a better alternative. Your retirement account should be the last resort. If she has a retirement account or other assets maybe allow her to keep them in exchange for keeping the home equity. These are things you need to go over with the lawyer and explore options. It's also another reason to get an true selling appraisal of the home.
> 
> In my area the market at the time of my divorce wasn't good, my house appraised for financing etc 50 grand more than the house would ever sell for and this was a bone on contention in my mess. Ironically when I had the house her side was insistent on the bank appraisal value till the day she decided she wanted the house then it magically went to the real estate agent appraisal. I let her have it for the lower price as it wouldn't sell for any more than that. Things are only worth what someone will pay in my world.
> 
> From the emotional side I was happy to leave the home, I lived there a long time with her. Every room to me was filled with memories and good times. I couldn't walk into a room and not think about those things. The house became a trap of memories for me and a fresh start in a new home helped. It's something to think about. It's your "married dream home". Is it your single guy dream home? There no right or wrong answer, it's just things for you to think about to make the best decision for yourself.
Click to expand...

I think if this was our previous house I would have more painful memories of keeping it. We were there for over 11 years. Both kids born there etc. This house will be 4 years in February. But it's gone by so fast and it seems like with the kids growing up so fast my wife and I really didn't make a lot of couple memories here rather a lot of family ones. If the kids want to stay here and I can afford it. We will. She has about 75-80% of what I have in retirement if what I have in mine. She makes about 20-30% more in salary than I do though.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Not that it really matters much now but learned she went out to a shooting range with the new 'friend' today. She's been using the phone bit more again so it appears she found the rebound from the AP and none better than someone that is also his friend. Maybe extra incentive to try and make him jealous.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Not that it really matters much now but learned she went out to a shooting range with the new 'friend' today. She's been using the phone bit more again so it appears she found the rebound from the AP and none better than someone that is also his friend. Maybe extra incentive to try and make him jealous.


Not sure how you know all that but it would would be really healthy for you to completely detach from her. To the point where you have no idea where she is, who she is with because you absolutely don't care and are too busy with other things that work on helping you.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that it really matters much now but learned she went out to a shooting range with the new 'friend' today. She's been using the phone bit more again so it appears she found the rebound from the AP and none better than someone that is also his friend. Maybe extra incentive to try and make him jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how you know all that but it would would be really healthy for you to completely detach from her. To the point where you have no idea where she is, who she is with because you absolutely don't care and are too busy with other things that work on helping you.
Click to expand...

Good point. The info I get is not helping either so I need to detach from that as well. Need to quit detective mode because it's really no longer pertinent to the legal side in helping me.


----------



## Satya

She is a roommate and mom to your kids.
That's all.
Stop caring what she does.


----------



## skerzoid

I would rather die alone in the street than respond to a challenge in my marriage in the manner that this was handled. New readers should understand, this story is an example of the exact opposite of "fighting for one's marriage". Fighting for something means having the courage to face the reality of what is happening, and respond with strength in the face of fear. Courage is doing what you have to do in spite of fear. The "Pick Me Dance" has never been more demonstrably a failure in how to fight for your marriage. The OP's wife is most assuredly attracted to "Alpha" males. His response was to become an "Omega" male. Pleading, begging, and whining destroy not only the attraction that a woman feels for you, in the end it destroys your own self respect. Why would you value this woman to the point of emasculating yourself? Better to live forever alone with you dignity than to live with the memory the depths you slunk to to try and avoid the pain of losing her.


----------



## eric1

She’s a walking disaster. By monitoring you are welcoming chaos into your life. You are choosing the live the life of a good person and all actions that you take need to be consistent with that mantra.

If it’s not good it is not within your sphere of influence. You dismiss it as worthless.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

skerzoid said:


> I would rather die alone in the street than respond to a challenge in my marriage in the manner that this was handled. New readers should understand, this story is an example of the exact opposite of "fighting for one's marriage". Fighting for something means having the courage to face the reality of what is happening, and respond with strength in the face of fear. Courage is doing what you have to do in spite of fear. The "Pick Me Dance" has never been more demonstrably a failure in how to fight for your marriage. The OP's wife is most assuredly attracted to "Alpha" males. His response was to become an "Omega" male. Pleading, begging, and whining destroy not only the attraction that a woman feels for you, in the end it destroys your own self respect. Why would you value this woman to the point of emasculating yourself? Better to live forever alone with you dignity than to live with the memory the depths you slunk to to try and avoid the pain of losing her.


Yup I have admitted this and use myself as an example in my responses to other people's posts on here. Now that we are in the process of divorce my fight continues but for the 3 of us now instead of the four. Just can't wait for it to be over now. I'm using the things that hurt me before to supply anger and focus but like others have said the mistake I'm making now is still being a detective. It helped supply info for my case but now that it's in motion the info is more harm than good. If my tale is an example to help others so be it. I'll be fine. I have always (eventually) perserved in life with will and hard work. I just put too much of that into a losing battle for too long here.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

eric1 said:


> She’s a walking disaster. By monitoring you are welcoming chaos into your life. You are choosing the live the life of a good person and all actions that you take need to be consistent with that mantra.
> 
> If it’s not good it is not within your sphere of influence. You dismiss it as worthless.


Thank you for the advice. It's been refreshing the last 2 weeks to just ignore her and respond to stuff about the kids and dinner. I just need to ignore the noise of the info on her as well.


----------



## Chaparral

Somewhere on your thread I probably pointed out that what you were doing would not work but that it would end up in a good result. I was right. The best result is the future absence of your wife in your life. She isn’t worth the effort you put into her. Her grand parents ruined her and she a broken, self centered person. Go back and read the books that have been recommended. Add to that load the books by Dr. Harley over at marriage builders if they haven’t already been suggested. 
The most important books are MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and HOLD ON TO YOUR N.U.T.S.

Just wanted to say your repeated statements about how very long it will be before you want to start dating makes me laugh. I think you will be getting along much more quickly than you think.

Don’t expect your wife to fold up like a cheap tent either. I suspect she doesn’t have the capacity or intelligence to actually understand what she is doing. Actually I should have said smarts instead of intelligence. They are not comparable!

Your kids are lucky to have you, your wife is a lost cause.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Chaparral said:


> Somewhere on your thread I probably pointed out that what you were doing would not work but that it would end up in a good result. I was right. The best result is the future absence of your wife in your life. She isn’t worth the effort you put into her. Her grand parents ruined her and she a broken, self centered person. Go back and read the books that have been recommended. Add to that load the books by Dr. Harley over at marriage builders if they haven’t already been suggested.
> The most important books are MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and HOLD ON TO YOUR N.U.T.S.
> 
> Just wanted to say your repeated statements about how very long it will be before you want to start dating makes me laugh. I think you will be getting along much more quickly than you think.
> 
> *Don’t expect your wife to fold up like a cheap tent either*. I suspect she doesn’t have the capacity or intelligence to actually understand what she is doing. Actually I should have said smarts instead of intelligence. They are not comparable!
> 
> Your kids are lucky to have you, your wife is a lost cause.


You got that right She is extremely strong willed in a lot of ways for the wrong reasons. My counselor saw that in just 3 sessions that she is very strong in that sense but strong in defending and justifying her actions to herself, really all her life. She HATES and I mean HATES being wrong, it must be something related to childhood as well. When she would finally figure out she was wrong with some things during the real marriage, it would bring her to almost tears sometimes. Even when/if she figures out she was so wrong during all of these, it will be tough for her to admit because of her stubbornness and unwillingness to want to be wrong. Her own family that was helping me throughout the past year with support said the same and I already knew it, that in the early stages she knew she was wrong but would never admit it because "(name) never admits she is wrong" said one family member. 

When she would always say she was unhappy and didn't know what she wanted to do with her life I would recommend some things including doing things for others and putting others ahead of yourself as a gentle nudge to not be mean at her self centered-ness but to point her in a direction of how i was raised and why it was always so easy for me to be happy everyday. My parents taught me you do something for someone and never expect anything in return, you do it because it needs to be done or for the right reasons. Something I talked to my counselor about was how someone could be so insecure but so self centered, so judgmental about things she hates that people do but do many of the same things herself.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Not sure how you know all that but it would would be really healthy for you to completely detach from her. To the point where you have no idea where she is, who she is with because you absolutely don't care and are too busy with other things that work on helping you.


 The upside of this is now he knows that if she shoots at him, her odds are better at hitting him.
Practice makes perfect.

@sffu , Quit practicing being her husband.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

She shared this with a few of her friends saying this was a sign she made the right decision. I'm guessing the part about the people that make you happy and trying new things. Gives a great glimpse into her mind on how she feels justified about her actions. What's even better. This thing was later found to be a hoax. The Pope never wrote it. A guy from the Philippines did!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

SFFU: The amount of energy you spend analyzing your soon to be ex wife's behavior and writing about it might be better spent doing something else. 

You need to get out of the weeds of her crap and start soaring way above all this at 50,000 feet. 

Have you joined a gym? Consider it as a way of working on you and getting your mind off of her. 

Consider joining some dating sites. Just state you are looking for friendship were you can let someone else speak and have a nice time over a dinners perhaps. Get your mind off of her.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> SFFU: The amount of energy you spend analyzing your soon to be ex wife's behavior and writing about it might be better spent doing something else.
> 
> You need to get out of the weeds of her crap and start soaring way above all this at 50,000 feet.
> 
> Have you joined a gym? Consider it as a way of working on you and getting your mind off of her.
> 
> Consider joining some dating sites. Just state you are looking for friendship were you can let someone else speak and have a nice time over a dinners perhaps. Get your mind off of her.


My work is starting to fill the void nicely although as you can see still not all the way yet. I have a normal 9 to 5 and I'm the silent co-founder of a sports app company which I work on at night. I workout 7 days a week already and play basketball about 4 days a week but that's during my lunch hours so it doesn't occur away from home. One of the benefits of working at a university. I spent so much time devoted to trying to fix this it's just taking time to totally switch gears from pulling attention off her. I am someone who can work 20 hours a day so I'm high functioning without requiring much sleep. Please keep the ideas coming on how to fill the time vortex. Thanks!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> My work is starting to fill the void nicely although as you can see still not all the way yet. I have a normal 9 to 5 and I'm the silent co-founder of a sports app company which I work on at night. I workout 7 days a week already and play basketball about 4 days a week but that's during my lunch hours so it doesn't occur away from home. One of the benefits of working at a university. I spent so much time devoted to trying to fix this it's just taking time to totally switch gears from pulling attention off her. I am someone who can work 20 hours a day so I'm high functioning without requiring much sleep. Please keep the ideas coming on how to fill the time vortex. Thanks!


Clearly you have the gym covered. Try joining OK Cupid, Bumble and Tinder. Swipe and type away with them. Just be honest about what you are going through and what your present intentions are and have fun. If you get a date don't drown them in your sorrows. Mention it as a matter of fact and quickly move on to them. Let them tell you about themselves and have fun.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> My work is starting to fill the void nicely although as you can see still not all the way yet. I have a normal 9 to 5 and I'm the silent co-founder of a sports app company which I work on at night. I workout 7 days a week already and play basketball about 4 days a week but that's during my lunch hours so it doesn't occur away from home. One of the benefits of working at a university. I spent so much time devoted to trying to fix this it's just taking time to totally switch gears from pulling attention off her. I am someone who can work 20 hours a day so I'm high functioning without requiring much sleep. Please keep the ideas coming on how to fill the time vortex. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly you have the gym covered. Try joining OK Cupid, Bumble and Tinder. Swipe and type away with them. Just be honest about what you are going through and what your present intentions are and have fun. If you get a date don't drown them in your sorrows. Mention it as a matter of fact and quickly move on to them. Let them tell you about themselves and have fun.
Click to expand...

As always appreciate the advice!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Starting to enter new and unfamiliar territory where the 180 is in her mind making it feel like I'm mean and disrespectful which honest to God not even close. My credit card that I pay all our bills on got messed up last month and a lot of our bills didn't go through and I have had to fix them one by one. Add to the complication we had to change company email domains and the 8,000,000 accounts I have with that email address are being a pain in the behind to change so I didn't get notifications on 2 bills that didn't get auto paid. She saw the letters today and accused me of doing that on purpose to lower her credit rating. She's trying to sell me to others now as being cold and mean just a few months after saying I was too nice and too accommodating. Thank God 99% of the people know exactly what's going on. They may not cut her out if their lives but they know who I am and have been and always will. She also tried to talk me into going over the assets together so we could figure it out between us and not rack up lawyer hours with it. I think in some cases this can happen but I simply cannot trust her at this point and she probably thinks I'm so nice that I will lay down for whatever she wants. When I said calmly and cordially we need to have the lawyers, the ones with experience in this help us and do what's fair, she asked if every conversation is going to be like this where I say we need lawyers to address it. When I told her that I still have to answer to God and myself and all of this will be done as righteously as possible and said you know that's how I operate. She said ... "i don't know what to think of you right now. I'm scared". Really?


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> Starting to enter new and unfamiliar territory where the 180 is in her mind making it feel like I'm mean and disrespectful which honest to God not even close. My credit card that I pay all our bills on got messed up last month and a lot of our bills didn't go through and I have had to fix them one by one. Add to the complication we had to change company email domains and the 8,000,000 accounts I have with that email address are being a pain in the behind to change so I didn't get notifications on 2 bills that didn't get auto paid. She saw the letters today and accused me of doing that on purpose to lower her credit rating. She's trying to sell me to others now as being cold and mean just a few months after saying I was too nice and too accommodating. Thank God 99% of the people know exactly what's going on. They may not cut her out if their lives but they know who I am and have been and always will. She also tried to talk me into going over the assets together so we could figure it out between us and not rack up lawyer hours with it. I think in some cases this can happen but I simply cannot trust her at this point and she probably thinks I'm so nice that I will lay down for whatever she wants. When I said calmly and cordially we need to have the lawyers, the ones with experience in this help us and do what's fair, she asked if every conversation is going to be like this where I say we need lawyers to address it. When I told her that I still have to answer to God and myself and all of this will be done as righteously as possible and said you know that's how I operate. She said ... "i don't know what to think of you right now. I'm scared". Really?


No offense man but she has been the same snake she always was from your first post on this board. The difference is now you are seeing it. Many of us told you to bail because of it. This is a women who had a long term affair and lied to you the whole time. If she treats you like an enemy assume she is your enemy. It's going to get worse before it gets better. Detach as soon as possible, separate as soon as possible. Here is an idea read the damn books! I have been saying that in every post I write to you. You body may be fit but you emotional well being needs some work. If you don't fix it you will be her with the next one ten years from now.


----------



## Chaparral

There is absolutely no
Reason for you to be answering her questions or pay attention to her rants. She wants control.

She is scared? This is often followed by a restraining order as a play to gain custody. Keep a VAR on you at all times. Time to pay attention to folks with experience or this hell can get much worse with lifetime consequences for your kids and your self.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Chaparral said:


> There is absolutely no
> Reason for you to be answering her questions or pay attention to her rants. She wants control.
> 
> She is scared? This is often followed by a restraining order as a play to gain custody. Keep a VAR on you at all times. Time to pay attention to folks with experience or this hell can get much worse with lifetime consequences for your kids and your self.


Now that it has come to this the VAR has me intrigued. Will research them now. Never wanted to use it as a spy thing but have no issues using it as a cover my ass device against someone with ill will and not even control over their own actions and behavior.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Starting to enter new and unfamiliar territory where the 180 is in her mind making it feel like I'm mean and disrespectful which honest to God not even close. My credit card that I pay all our bills on got messed up last month and a lot of our bills didn't go through and I have had to fix them one by one. Add to the complication we had to change company email domains and the 8,000,000 accounts I have with that email address are being a pain in the behind to change so I didn't get notifications on 2 bills that didn't get auto paid. She saw the letters today and accused me of doing that on purpose to lower her credit rating. She's trying to sell me to others now as being cold and mean just a few months after saying I was too nice and too accommodating. Thank God 99% of the people know exactly what's going on. They may not cut her out if their lives but they know who I am and have been and always will. She also tried to talk me into going over the assets together so we could figure it out between us and not rack up lawyer hours with it. I think in some cases this can happen but I simply cannot trust her at this point and she probably thinks I'm so nice that I will lay down for whatever she wants. When I said calmly and cordially we need to have the lawyers, the ones with experience in this help us and do what's fair, she asked if every conversation is going to be like this where I say we need lawyers to address it. When I told her that I still have to answer to God and myself and all of this will be done as righteously as possible and said you know that's how I operate. She said ... "i don't know what to think of you right now. I'm scared". Really?


Accuses you of anguishing nefarious just ignore her. Myself, I'd give the finger but you aren't like me. Fine. Maybe say Sorry you feel that way. 

No need to talk about assets. Email and spreadsheet. Done. Tell her so. Email and spreadsheet will solve all asset agreements and highlight disagreements. 

Just lawyer up and serve her. There is nothing else to say. 

Leave God out if it. God sees everything right? Fishing for remorse from her is pointless. She does not care.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to enter new and unfamiliar territory where the 180 is in her mind making it feel like I'm mean and disrespectful which honest to God not even close. My credit card that I pay all our bills on got messed up last month and a lot of our bills didn't go through and I have had to fix them one by one. Add to the complication we had to change company email domains and the 8,000,000 accounts I have with that email address are being a pain in the behind to change so I didn't get notifications on 2 bills that didn't get auto paid. She saw the letters today and accused me of doing that on purpose to lower her credit rating. She's trying to sell me to others now as being cold and mean just a few months after saying I was too nice and too accommodating. Thank God 99% of the people know exactly what's going on. They may not cut her out if their lives but they know who I am and have been and always will. She also tried to talk me into going over the assets together so we could figure it out between us and not rack up lawyer hours with it. I think in some cases this can happen but I simply cannot trust her at this point and she probably thinks I'm so nice that I will lay down for whatever she wants. When I said calmly and cordially we need to have the lawyers, the ones with experience in this help us and do what's fair, she asked if every conversation is going to be like this where I say we need lawyers to address it. When I told her that I still have to answer to God and myself and all of this will be done as righteously as possible and said you know that's how I operate. She said ... "i don't know what to think of you right now. I'm scared". Really?
> 
> 
> 
> Accuses you of anguishing nefarious just ignore her. Myself, I'd give the finger but you aren't like me. Fine. Maybe say Sorry you feel that way.
> 
> No need to talk about assets. Email and spreadsheet. Done. Tell her so. Email and spreadsheet will solve all asset agreements and highlight disagreements.
> 
> Just lawyer up and serve her. There is nothing else to say.
> 
> Leave God out if it. God sees everything right? Fishing for remorse from her is pointless. She does not care.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. Yup we both have retained lawyers and paperwork is all turned in. She may care about saving money but she's just trying to get what she wants because she knows she will be on the low ground when the battle happens in court.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Gotcha. Yup we both have retained lawyers and paperwork is all turned in. She may care about saving money but she's just trying to get what she wants because she knows she will be on the low ground when the battle happens in court.


Perfect. 190 180 180. Smile. 

Another idea for things to do. Cooking classes. Whether you can only make toast or are really good at family meals never hurts to take it to the next level.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha. Yup we both have retained lawyers and paperwork is all turned in. She may care about saving money but she's just trying to get what she wants because she knows she will be on the low ground when the battle happens in court.
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect. 190 180 180. Smile.
> 
> Another idea for things to do. Cooking classes. Whether you can only make toast or are really good at family meals never hurts to take it to the next level.
Click to expand...

That's a great idea. Never thought of it. I have been trying things on my own and things I would usually ask her to make the past month. Feels good. I just make it and not worry about what she thinks.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Exactly. Get use to preparing your own meals. Classes you can take in the evenings. Then when you have your kids you can make cooking a whole family thing and make enough to cover the days you don't have them.


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> Thank you for the advice. * It's been refreshing the last 2 weeks to just ignore her* and respond to stuff about the kids and dinner. I just need to ignore the noise of the info on her as well.


SFFU - To that end, I hope you have stopped going to the same mass with her.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Failed a test today but honestly couldn't see anyway around it right now. I had the kids make home made bday cards for my dad and we were about to head out the door. I told the 'wife' we would be back in a bit and she said oh, I was going to go too. I didn't say anything but couldn't bring myself to say with her standing there in front of me with my kids next to me ... No it would be better if you didn't. I also need to talk to my parents to see what they want as well. They treated her like they would any normal day. They have followed my lead and would do as I would them to do but to this point we really haven't talked about that and when she's over their kind nature just takes over on autopilot. I'm going to go to there house before work tomorrow and have a talk to them about this and see how they actually feel. It will get to the point soon enough when I can tell her no openly but since the kids don't know yet I couldn't do it front of them today .....


----------



## Edmund

stillfightingforus said:


> Failed a test today but honestly couldn't see anyway around it right now. I had the kids make home made bday cards for my dad and we were about to head out the door. I told the 'wife' we would be back in a bit and she said oh, I was going to go too. I didn't say anything but couldn't bring myself to say with her standing there in front of me with my kids next to me ... No it would be better if you didn't. I also need to talk to my parents to see what they want as well. They treated her like they would any normal day. They have followed my lead and would do as I would them to do but to this point we really haven't talked about that and when she's over their kind nature just takes over on autopilot. I'm going to go to there house before work tomorrow and have a talk to them about this and see how they actually feel. It will get to the point soon enough when I can tell her no openly but since the kids don't know yet I couldn't do it front of them today .....



Why would she want to go?


----------



## tom72

Edmund said:


> Why would she want to go?


I suspect the exposure wasn't good enough because she would be embarrassed, especially when they're not together? The thought of her thinking she can go, shows that she still thinks she has SFFU on a leash


----------



## SentHereForAReason

tom72 said:


> I suspect the exposure wasn't good enough because she would be embarrassed, especially when they're not together? The thought of her thinking she can go, shows that she still thinks she has SFFU on a leash


My parents, especially my mom still treat her with compassion and they know EVERYTHING. 

I am going to go there before work tomorrow and talk with them about future events and see how they feel. I know they are devastated by this but have followed my lead. Maybe I did a poor job of explaining how I felt and what I am doing now in my own dealings with her. 

I always think I know what my parents are going to say and then they say something that I wasn't expecting that has a good effect and is wise. I haven't talked to them as much as I should, that could be an issue as well. I hadn't talked to them in person before today since I first told them the divorce was a sure thing and the papers were filed 2 weeks ago.

I also think she likes going because it's just part of her split personality. She loves my parents and she has convinced herself so well she did nothing really wrong and just followed her own heart that she must think there's nothing wrong with going over there and gets the benefit of feeding off of the good vibes my parents bring.

Next time, I'll have a better plan in place and I realize I need to talk to my parents more. We have one of those relationships that we are so close that we can not talk for 3 weeks and when we see each other, it's like we saw each other yesterday.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> SFFU - To that end, I hope you have stopped going to the same mass with her.


Thought I might bring this up in a Catholic Forum just to see what they say and got some reasonable support on what to do. Outside of the extremist that posted on my thread lol, one poster with several posts said I need to give my priest one last shot in person and then go to the bishop.

Like the issue with my parents it's still a tough one to figure out because the kids don't know yet.


----------



## Nucking Futs

tom72 said:


> I suspect the exposure wasn't good enough because she would be embarrassed, especially when they're not together? *The thought of her thinking she can go, shows that she still thinks she has SFFU on a leash*






stillfightingforus said:


> Failed a test today but honestly couldn't see anyway around it right now. I had the kids make home made bday cards for my dad and we were about to head out the door. I told the 'wife' we would be back in a bit and she said oh, I was going to go too. *I didn't say anything* but couldn't bring myself to say with her standing there in front of me with my kids next to me ... No it would be better if you didn't. I also need to talk to my parents to see what they want as well. They treated her like they would any normal day. They have followed my lead and would do as I would them to do but to this point we really haven't talked about that and when she's over their kind nature just takes over on autopilot. I'm going to go to there house before work tomorrow and have a talk to them about this and see how they actually feel. It will get to the point soon enough when I can tell her no openly but since the kids don't know yet I couldn't do it front of them today .....


She does. Sffu, I've seen you post several times that you learned your lesson about following the advice given here, so let me give you some right now. Man the **** up. Your parents aren't following your lead, you have no lead, you're following her lead. :banghead:


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> Thought I might bring this up in a Catholic Forum just to see what they say and got some reasonable support on what to do. Outside of the extremist that posted on my thread lol, one poster with several posts said I need to give my priest one last shot in person and then go to the bishop.
> 
> Like the issue with my parents it's still a tough one to figure out because the kids don't know yet.


Go to the bishop today, why are you worrying about everybody's feelings so much? Worrying about others instead of focusing on yourself will keep you in a bad spot my friend.

Why not tell the kids? Don't they deserve to know what's going on? "Mummy was in a relationship with somebody else so we're splitting up. I still love you and will be there for you".

When are they going to find out? When they have to move house? So many questions they'll have unanswered and they will be so shocked it will be hard to adjust to.

Why are you getting so much support for each decision you make? make your own and support it. You'll learn. We're not all perfect, we all make the wrong decisions sometimes.

I'm going through infidelity myself. Sucks, nothing worse. AP came to my house the other day and tried to rip down my door to attack me. He was a family friend, and he lost one of my drill chargers. Rather then upset his wife because I felt sorry for her, I got him charged, restraining order and she even gave me her card to go and buy a new charger (which was a more expensive one). Felt so ****ing good, rather then worrying about her feelings and not upsetting, I worried about myself.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

tom72 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thought I might bring this up in a Catholic Forum just to see what they say and got some reasonable support on what to do. Outside of the extremist that posted on my thread lol, one poster with several posts said I need to give my priest one last shot in person and then go to the bishop.
> 
> Like the issue with my parents it's still a tough one to figure out because the kids don't know yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Go to the bishop today, why are you worrying about everybody's feelings so much? Worrying about others instead of focusing on yourself will keep you in a bad spot my friend.
> 
> Why not tell the kids? Don't they deserve to know what's going on? "Mummy was in a relationship with somebody else so we're splitting up. I still love you and will be there for you".
> 
> When are they going to find out? When they have to move house? So many questions they'll have unanswered and they will be so shocked it will be hard to adjust to.
> 
> Why are you getting so much support for each decision you make? make your own and support it. You'll learn. We're not all perfect, we all make the wrong decisions sometimes.
Click to expand...

The plan is to tell them after our first friend of the court meeting. There's been no rush up until this point since we will all have to live together for the next 5 months during the waiting period in our state. I think the reasoning of going to my priest in person is to see what lies she filled him with and go from there instead of going over his head first.

I like what you said about just making my own decisions and dealing with the consequences and learn from it. I've learned even the people that are fully behind me are so tired and sick of the situation that they just want to get as far away as they can from it.


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> The plan is to tell them after our first friend of the court meeting. There's been no rush up until this point since we will all have to live together for the next 5 months during the waiting period in our state. I think the reasoning of going to my priest in person is to see what lies she filled him with and go from there instead of going over his head first.
> 
> I like what you said about just making my own decisions and dealing with the consequences and learn from it. I've learned even the people that are fully behind me are so tired and sick of the situation that they just want to get as far away as they can from it.


Why? Tell everybody straight away, show your not ****ing around anymore? You don't think they'll get worried that something is up when mummy and daddy aren't talking? Do you think they'll be annoyed that you hid such a secret for how many months is it? Aren't you annoyed that she kept secrets from you?

Why can't she go find somewhere else to live? Pickup the mortgage by yourself and she can find somewhere to rent? Why has it taken so long to see the priest?

You know what the right thing to do is, but your living in fear. Your still in denial about it. Your hoping this mini stance will wake her up, you can't wake her up. She'll wake up when she realises your living your own life, then decide. If you still want to try with her, wait a year, worry about it then, let her crawl back to you.

If you stood your ground, she wouldn't be asking to go to your parents.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

tom72 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plan is to tell them after our first friend of the court meeting. There's been no rush up until this point since we will all have to live together for the next 5 months during the waiting period in our state. I think the reasoning of going to my priest in person is to see what lies she filled him with and go from there instead of going over his head first.
> 
> I like what you said about just making my own decisions and dealing with the consequences and learn from it. I've learned even the people that are fully behind me are so tired and sick of the situation that they just want to get as far away as they can from it.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Tell everybody straight away, show your not ****ing around anymore? You don't think they'll get worried that something is up when mummy and daddy aren't talking? Do you think they'll be annoyed that you hid such a secret for how many months is it? Aren't you annoyed that she kept secrets from you?
> 
> Why can't she go find somewhere else to live? Pickup the mortgage by yourself and she can find somewhere to rent? Why has it taken so long to see the priest?
> 
> You know what the right thing to do is, but your living in fear. Your still in denial about it. Your hoping this mini stance will wake her up, you can't wake her up. She'll wake up when she realises your living your own life, then decide. If you still want to try with her, wait a year, worry about it then, let her crawl back to you.
> 
> If you stood your ground, she wouldn't be asking to go to your parents.
Click to expand...

I just want this to be over as soon as possible now. Trust me I asked the lawyer if she could be booted and unless she's physically harming me or the kids she can't be evicted. I'm hoping now she just gets so frustrated with me she leaves but she's smart enough to know the court would see that as abandonment. I'm pissed about what she has done to me and what the kids are about to because of her selfish actions. I'm going for primary custody of the kids and the house but this process is going to take a while.


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> I just want this to be over as soon as possible now. Trust me I asked the lawyer if she could be booted and unless she's physically harming me or the kids she can't be evicted. I'm hoping now she just gets so frustrated with me she leaves but she's smart enough to know the court would see that as abandonment. I'm pissed about what she has done to me and what the kids are about to because of her selfish actions. I'm going for primary custody of the kids and the house but this process is going to take a while.


Absolutely, but stop being so nice to her. Your giving her a cousy lifestyle because she's getting everything she wants.

You also avoided my question about the kids. You can speed up the process, and that's being 100% honest with your kids. Ask your lawyer what to say to this kids, after all their there for *your* best interests. Not informing the kids may be all nice short term but could turn nasty. What if she was to turn around and told them that you done something wrong hence why you broke up? You never thought she would cheat on you, didn't work out.

I understand your protecting the kids, I had trouble telling them that we split up because I didn't want them to feel nervous or uncomfortable. Life isn't always sweet, they need to know this.

I thought my ex would've done the same, but once I expressed how happy it was that she's going, never gave her any love, she moved out real quick.


----------



## [email protected]

You have seemed so tentative about nearly everything, even when you say you've made you mind up. To hell with how
she feels! Stay strong! She's like a gopher you can't get out of your lawn: she has undermined you for too long. In the end
no one but you can get rid of this pest.


----------



## Nucking Futs

I'm adamantly opposed to blaming the victim, and while this may appear to be what I'm about to do it's not. She made her own choices and is 100% responsible for the destruction of the marriage. _But_, to the extent you provide any leadership at all, you lead her to disrespect you. And until you toughen up, you will continue to lead women to disrespect you.


----------



## tom72

Nucking Futs said:


> I'm adamantly opposed to blaming the victim, and while this may appear to be what I'm about to do it's not. She made her own choices and is 100% responsible for the destruction of the marriage. _But_, to the extent you provide any leadership at all, you lead her to disrespect you. And until you toughen up, you will continue to lead women to disrespect you.


Agreed. His still trying to stop his fear from acting. I was the same, until I made the steps that I did. I was the same "I won't date for a while" but how quickly things changed when I felt like I was set free, took control of my life and stepped back


----------



## tom72

One thing I've been doing to earn my self respect back is some motivational speakers etc on how men work. My father had deep depression and didn't really show what a man should do, so I thought I would seek elsewhere.

Things such as keeping your back straight and shoulders back makes you feel soooooo good, bit manly. 

With my work, it can be a tough job however I act more of a man at my job then I do in my life. I make big decisions for the company, I'll tell people how it is (not rude, no swearing etc) but get my decisions/views across. You know what? The give me more jobs because of my ability as a worker and to make bigger decisions. Not a bragging right, but soon as I enter the room, everybody is up and talking to me (only go into the office 2 days a week), email me before they go on holidays etc, respects my decision. The company know about my situation, back me 110%. I'm having the next 3 days off with no annual leave being taken? It works both ways, they know I'll work through the midnight to get jobs done (if it's urgent), they know they can call me at 8PM if they need me interstate and I'll be there.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

I'm still going to talk to Father Tom I believe or I'm just going to let the damn thing lay and move on and just take the kids to a different mass once they know and we are taking the next steps of the court.

I have been getting answers from the people on a Catholic forum and sadly, they are saying if she confessed and since the physical affair may be technically over, she can participate again. I don't know if that's fact but I still may want to find out from the man that I have called my priest for the last 17 years, connected to the school to where my kids have gone for the past 8.

I'm a big man of faith and a lifelong Catholic but like anyone I think, there's a lot of things I don't agree with in the church and hold my own personal beliefs with God.

She was in a great mood this morning and happy, different from the last few days of unhappy and cold. I think I've mentioned this before but now as I see her for who she is and the things that she has done to me cause anger instead of pain. It makes my days a bit more difficult when she acts happy, not a big difference but it's almost when she's being a B, it's easier for me to just go on my way and see how different we are in how we handle life. Recently, when she has been happy it's when she was in contact or about to go see her BF. No idea if she's still in contact with him, they would have to be incredibly careful about it and I believe he has reconciled with his wife for now and even if he's still planning on going back for more with my STBXW, he's going to wait til things cool down. He was a pro at this and I'm sure this isn't his first girlfriend outside of marriage and won't be his last. My STBXW may also be happy because she was talking to her new 'friend'.

With her new 'friend' I'm at the stage where I joke about it with my brother and friends now more than anything, it doesn't have the same effect as the affair with her lover had and that part feels good. We get a kick out of commenting on the guy's facebook pictures. "Good Looking Face" And "I've seen less wrinkles in a crinkled up newspaper than on that dude's forehead"


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## SentHereForAReason

Saw this last night and can relate to it for myself and for her in some ways as well (self serving, trust, truth, etc)


----------



## RWB

stillfightingforus said:


> She was in a great mood this morning and happy, different from the last few days of unhappy and cold. *I think I've mentioned this before but now as I see her for who she is and the things that she has done to me cause anger instead of pain. * It makes my days a bit more difficult when she acts happy, not a big difference but it's almost when she's being a B, *it's easier for me to just go on my way and see how different we are in how we handle life. *


The *Anger* phase is fairly common. Most of "us" have ridden this roller coaster before... Shock, Hurt, Pain, Anger and finally In-difference.

However, in reality it's rarely a one-pass trip. There's is plenty of loops, backing up, stopping, and then starting it all over again.

*it's easier for me to just go on my way and see how different we are in how we handle life. *

In-Difference...


----------



## jlg07

stillfightingforus said:


> My parents, especially my mom still treat her with compassion and they know EVERYTHING.
> 
> I am going to go there before work tomorrow and talk with them about future events and see how they feel. I know they are devastated by this but have followed my lead. Maybe I did a poor job of explaining how I felt and what I am doing now in my own dealings with her.
> 
> I always think I know what my parents are going to say and then they say something that I wasn't expecting that has a good effect and is wise. I haven't talked to them as much as I should, that could be an issue as well. I hadn't talked to them in person before today since I first told them the divorce was a sure thing and the papers were filed 2 weeks ago.
> 
> I also think she likes going because it's just part of her split personality. She loves my parents and she has convinced herself so well she did nothing really wrong and just followed her own heart that she must think there's nothing wrong with going over there and gets the benefit of feeding off of the good vibes my parents bring.
> 
> Next time, I'll have a better plan in place and I realize I need to talk to my parents more. We have one of those relationships that we are so close that we can not talk for 3 weeks and when we see each other, it's like we saw each other yesterday.


Just tell her NO -- no explanations required. If she pushes, tell her we are getting divorced, so you need to get used to this. Your parents should make sure THEY also detach from her. I know they followed your lead -- you need to ask them to detach and NOT deal with her except for anything required with the kids.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

jlg07 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> My parents, especially my mom still treat her with compassion and they know EVERYTHING.
> 
> I am going to go there before work tomorrow and talk with them about future events and see how they feel. I know they are devastated by this but have followed my lead. Maybe I did a poor job of explaining how I felt and what I am doing now in my own dealings with her.
> 
> I always think I know what my parents are going to say and then they say something that I wasn't expecting that has a good effect and is wise. I haven't talked to them as much as I should, that could be an issue as well. I hadn't talked to them in person before today since I first told them the divorce was a sure thing and the papers were filed 2 weeks ago.
> 
> I also think she likes going because it's just part of her split personality. She loves my parents and she has convinced herself so well she did nothing really wrong and just followed her own heart that she must think there's nothing wrong with going over there and gets the benefit of feeding off of the good vibes my parents bring.
> 
> Next time, I'll have a better plan in place and I realize I need to talk to my parents more. We have one of those relationships that we are so close that we can not talk for 3 weeks and when we see each other, it's like we saw each other yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> Just tell her NO -- no explanations required. If she pushes, tell her we are getting divorced, so you need to get used to this. Your parents should make sure THEY also detach from her. I know they followed your lead -- you need to ask them to detach and NOT deal with her except for anything required with the kids.
Click to expand...

Yup. Started that conversation with my mom today and will talk more about it with both of them tonight


----------



## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> Yup. Started that conversation with my mom today and will talk more about it with both of them tonight


Mom and dad need to be on your home team. That simple. The stbxw screwed their son and family. Why the are in the sympathetic cheering section for your stbxw I'll never understand. 

My fiance that cheated on me(and I caught. no need for investigating) returned the engagement ring to my parents front door. She knocked. My mom answered and took the ring. My mom then slammed the door in her face. Not a word. Just a cold hard door in the face.


----------



## Malaise

Yeswecan said:


> Mom and dad need to be on your home team. That simple. The stbxw screwed their son and family. Why the are in the sympathetic cheering section for your stbxw I'll never understand.
> 
> My fiance that cheated on me(and I caught. no need for investigating) returned the engagement ring to my parents front door. She knocked. My mom answered and took the ring. My mom then slammed the door in her face. Not a word. Just a cold hard door in the face.


I like your Mom.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

SFFU, you need to sit your kids down asap and tell them you are divorcing and why. You might think you are protecting them but you are really lying to them pretending everything is ok when it is not. Just sit them down and tell them that you and your wife are divorcing because she has been sleeping another man for years and you have had enough. Tell them in a age appropriate way but tell them the truth. Don't sugar coat it. Also tell them who it is in case she tries and bring him around them in the future. 

When your wife screams at you for telling them alone and not together tell her to drop dead. She owns the cheating, that is hers to explain. You are not going to cover up her lying, deceitful cheating any longer.

As far as your family next time she tries to tag a long just tell her she is not welcome. Period. You can't stop her from visiting your parents with their grand children or alone even but you can certainly tell her tio stay away when you are with your kids visiting them. She squawks, remind her that what divorce looks like - especially with cheaters who break up a family.


----------



## [email protected]

He still doesn't get it.


----------



## Chuck71

OP..... you have to set boundaries with EVERYBODY..... even your best friends, even your kids, and yes

even your parents.
@Mavash. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/63357-time-regroup-move.html

Check out this thread and the poster listed above.

It is a Hall of Fame thread.... but notice how Mav speaks on family dynamics.

I was re-reading this thread in summer '15 and took a few Padawans under my wing.

Yes it helped but I payed a lot of attention to her relationship with her parents. A month later...

my mom had a heart attack. But what "got her" were the two mini strokes afterwards and the 

swift onset of dementia. Thanks to Mav's deep introspection... I did not feel cold in having boundaries

with my mom.... for my OWN sanity.


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> I'm still going to talk to Father Tom I believe or I'm just going to let the damn thing lay and move on and just take the kids to a different mass once they know and we are taking the next steps of the court.
> 
> I have been getting answers from the people on a Catholic forum and sadly, they are saying if she confessed and since the physical affair may be technically over, she can participate again. I don't know if that's fact but I still may want to find out from the man that I have called my priest for the last 17 years, connected to the school to where my kids have gone for the past 8.


I think it would be wise to lay off Father Tom for now. In your case, optics matter more than anything else. It will be noticed if you and Ms SFFU are no longer at the same mass, putting on the pseudo marriage show. You can't put Father Tom on the spot. If she went to confession, he can't break the seal of confession. Now if she didn't, then that's a different story...

But tell the kids as soon as you can, and get this show on the road.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still going to talk to Father Tom I believe or I'm just going to let the damn thing lay and move on and just take the kids to a different mass once they know and we are taking the next steps of the court.
> 
> I have been getting answers from the people on a Catholic forum and sadly, they are saying if she confessed and since the physical affair may be technically over, she can participate again. I don't know if that's fact but I still may want to find out from the man that I have called my priest for the last 17 years, connected to the school to where my kids have gone for the past 8.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it would be wise to lay off Father Tom for now. In your case, optics matter more than anything else. It will be noticed if you and Ms SFFU are no longer at the same mass, putting on the pseudo marriage show. You can't put Father Tom on the spot. If she went to confession, he can't break the seal of confession. Now if she didn't, then that's a different story...
> 
> But tell the kids as soon as you can, and get this show on the road.
Click to expand...

Good advice. The church aspect is low on the priority scale right now. Had a talk with my brother on family detachment tonight. All he said was don't get me drinking around her, the things said will never be forgotten lol. My mom and dad were going to talk tonight and I'm going to touch base with them. As for the kids we were waiting for an initial ruling on custody arrangements so we have a better idea but if this goes on for too long we'll have to tell them before that. My IC appointment is tomorrow and I'm going to talk about how and when to tell the kids with her along with the family detachment process.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

My 2 cents. I only mention this as her church behavior was bothering you not very long ago. I see no reason not to tell Father Tom sooner rather than later. That is his job. You have that right as a member of the congregation to tell him that you are divorcing because of your wife's long infidelity. 

What he does with that information is his business and the church's business. I am certain Father Tom will then talk to your wife and remind her what infidelity is in the church's eyes. Hearing straight talk from the Father will not solve your marriage problem but it might actually help her be a better mother to your kids going forward into the future. You would really be doing her a favor. 

Of course she might be low enough to deny it. Then who cares? You stated the truth and she would have to live with lying to a priest.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> My 2 cents. I only mention this as her church behavior was bothering you not very long ago. I see no reason not to tell Father Tom sooner rather than later. That is his job. You have that right as a member of the congregation to tell him that you are divorcing because of your wife's long infidelity.
> 
> What he does with that information is his business and the church's business. I am certain Father Tom will then talk to your wife and remind her what infidelity is in the church's eyes. Hearing straight talk from the Father will not solve your marriage problem but it might actually help her be a better mother to your kids going forward into the future. You would really be doing her a favor.
> 
> Of course she might be low enough to deny it. Then who cares? You stated the truth and she would have to live with lying to a priest.


He knows everything because I kept him updated via email through the process. Just was curious on why it seems nothing changed for her at all in the church after she informed him she was getting divorced and I had told him about the details of her betrayal.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> He knows everything because I kept him updated via email through the process. Just was curious on why it seems nothing changed for her at all in the church after she informed him she was getting divorced and I had told him about the details of her betrayal.


She is not going to be excommunicated for being an adulteress in the Roman Catholic Church. Nor will she be shunned, not by the Father anyway, maybe by some parishioners if they find out the details. 

She will be encouraged to stay active in the church actually. The only thing she cannot do is remarry in the church with out getting an annulment. 

So post divorce how do you feel about running into her every Sunday?


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> He knows everything because I kept him updated via email through the process. Just was curious on why it seems nothing changed for her at all in the church after she informed him she was getting divorced and I had told him about the details of her betrayal.


Unfortunately this is one of the cruelest lesson of all, You thought you were doing the right thing for a rule they talk a big game about but don't even care about, at least in practice. I believe you said she is a Teacher right, it's hard to find people willing to work for the pay a Catholic schools pays. It's a business. 

I'm sorry man, but no one is going to stand up for you not even the church. You have to do that yourself.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> She is not going to be excommunicated for being an adulteress in the Roman Catholic Church. Nor will she be shunned, not by the Father anyway, maybe by some parishioners if they find out the details.
> 
> She will be encouraged to stay active in the church actually. The only thing she cannot do is remarry in the church with out getting an annulment.
> 
> So post divorce how do you feel about running into her every Sunday?





> (CNSNews.com) – In implementing Pope Francis’s recent letter on marriage and family, the archbishop of Philadelphia, Charles Chaput, released “pastoral guidelines” this month which clearly explain that divorced and remarried Catholics who are sexually active, as well as sexually active cohabiting couples and homosexual couples *cannot receive Holy Communion, a sacrament of the Church*.
> 
> *Nor should such people hold positions of responsibility at the parish, such as the parish council, or work in any liturgical ministries, such as lector or extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, states Archbishop Chaput.*


----------



## SentHereForAReason

sokillme said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> He knows everything because I kept him updated via email through the process. Just was curious on why it seems nothing changed for her at all in the church after she informed him she was getting divorced and I had told him about the details of her betrayal.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately this is one of the cruelest lesson of all, You thought you were doing the right thing for a rule they talk a big game about but don't even care about, at least in practice. I believe you said she is a Teacher right, it's hard to find people willing to work for the pay a Catholic schools pays. It's a business.
> 
> I'm sorry man, but no one is going to stand up for you not even the church. You have to do that yourself.
Click to expand...

Not a teacher. She was the head of the planning committee and many others.

This morning is when I started to embrace that I'm going to have to make this stand on my own. With loving support from those that care but it will have to be me that sticks my neck out and make the charge on the battlefield. It's kind of exhilarating.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nucking Futs, I believe if she confesses and declares to the priest she is not having sex with anyone she can receive holy communion and be active in church.


----------



## Archangel2

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> ...She will be encouraged to stay active in the church actually. The only thing she cannot do is remarry in the church with out getting an annulment.
> 
> So post divorce how do you feel about running into her every Sunday?


What he should do is go to a different mass than the one she goes to, or failing that, go to mass at a different parish. As long as he supports Father Tom's parish through its envelope system, he can still send his kids to Father Tom's parish school.


----------



## Edmund

OK SFFU,

I am going to make a comment here that no one will like. I am going to get a lot of flak for it. By the way, if it matters I am a Christian but not a Catholic.

I think an annulment in your case is BS. An annulment means the marriage never existed. You have 13 years and two kids. Marriage never existed? The bible says you can divorce your wife for adultery. But then if she remarries she commits adultery and causes the new man to commit adultery. Annulment is a just a fiction to allow a remarriage without the adultery part.

Admit it. You didn't want to lose her and you still don't and neither do your kids or your parents. Do the following.

1) Engage your own "split personality" as "really actually fighting for us now". Get your brother and her sister's husband (who I think you said was on your side) as your posse. Do not ask or tell her beforehand, and you and your posse go to visit "new friend" who was acting as an intermediary. You have a tone and manner that is as serious as death and you tell him that "She is still my wife; you have shown that you are an enemy of our marriage; do not continue to try to date her while she is married to me." If he says, "or what?" you say "You don't want to go there, friend. I am serious, no further contact with my wife while we are married." If he says, he thought you were getting divorced, you say "That is not your business. Right now she is my wife and she will always be the mother of my children, and I will not tolerate other men trying to destroy my family." Do not make any specific threats of violence or legal action (particularly with a gun owner). Your posse does not have to say anything. They just stand at your shoulders with a serious face and help stare this man down.

2) Call the OMW and tell her to doublecheck on the POSOM because of your recent wife's demeanor makes you suspect they may be in communication again despite the recent decision to break it off. It may be necessary for you and the posse to pay him a visit, similar to 1) above.

3) Contact Father Tom and tell him that unless and until your wife confesses and renews her marriage vows, you will not tolerate her continuing to particpate in planning committees and taking communion in your church, as adultery and coveting are against the commandments. He must exclude her from so participating in your church and inform her of his decision, without blaming you. Her participation in the church has not improved her morals so far. She needs consequences for breaking her vows before God.

4) Allow your wife to go places with you, like Mass, but only if she wears her wedding ring while in public with you, while the divorce is pending. Otherwise, she can not go with you.

5) Tell your wife you forgive her past betrayals, but will not tolerate her dating or building a fantasy relationship with another man, while still married to you. Don't call her gratuitous insulting names.

6) Tell your wife every day that you still love her. Don't try for sexual affection.

7) Tell your attorney to go shark and press for a settlement most advantageous to you. Do not try to be fair. Reopen negotiations several times. Do not help her pay for her legal defense.

8) Take your "Beta" personality and throw it in the garbage can. Show your children how a man goes down fighting for what is his and what he believes in.

This is my opinion. It cost you nothing.


----------



## Satya

@Edmund, I might support your thread more if the OP hadn't been deceived for over 6 months when he thought the affair had been well over.

You're putting the responsibility squarely (or primarily, perhaps)on him, which I can support under very certain circumstances, however there is a level of worthiness his wife needs to be at for it to not be a complete and utter waste of his time trying. 

She's nowhere near that. She's frankly at the gutter level and has done nothing to actively crawl out. 

Being a strong man does not mean you go looking to get punched in the face repeatedly. And you certainly won't earn respect from your kids as they watch you take blows like a champ.

Strength to me means having the fortitude to walk away when it's time.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Edmund said:


> OK SFFU,
> 
> I am going to make a comment here that no one will like. I am going to get a lot of flak for it. By the way, if it matters I am a Christian but not a Catholic.
> 
> I think an annulment in your case is BS. An annulment means the marriage never existed. You have 13 years and two kids. Marriage never existed? The bible says you can divorce your wife for adultery. But then if she remarries she commits adultery and causes the new man to commit adultery. Annulment is a just a fiction to allow a remarriage without the adultery part.
> 
> Admit it. You didn't want to lose her and you still don't and neither do your kids or your parents. Do the following.
> 
> 1) Engage your own "split personality" as "really actually fighting for us now". Get your brother and her sister's husband (who I think you said was on your side) as your posse. Do not ask or tell her beforehand, and you and your posse go to visit "new friend" who was acting as an intermediary. You have a tone and manner that is as serious as death and you tell him that "She is still my wife; you have shown that you are an enemy of our marriage; do not continue to try to date her while she is married to me." If he says, "or what?" you say "You don't want to go there, friend. I am serious, no further contact with my wife while we are married." If he says, he thought you were getting divorced, you say "That is not your business. Right now she is my wife and she will always be the mother of my children, and I will not tolerate other men trying to destroy my family." Do not make any specific threats of violence or legal action (particularly with a gun owner). Your posse does not have to say anything. They just stand at your shoulders with a serious face and help stare this man down.
> 
> 2) Call the OMW and tell her to doublecheck on the POSOM because of your recent wife's demeanor makes you suspect they may be in communication again despite the recent decision to break it off. It may be necessary for you and the posse to pay him a visit, similar to 1) above.
> 
> 3) Contact Father Tom and tell him that unless and until your wife confesses and renews her marriage vows, you will not tolerate her continuing to particpate in planning committees and taking communion in your church, as adultery and coveting are against the commandments. He must exclude her from so participating in your church and inform her of his decision, without blaming you. Her participation in the church has not improved her morals so far. She needs consequences for breaking her vows before God.
> 
> 4) Allow your wife to go places with you, like Mass, but only if she wears her wedding ring while in public with you, while the divorce is pending. Otherwise, she can not go with you.
> 
> 5) Tell your wife you forgive her past betrayals, but will not tolerate her dating or building a fantasy relationship with another man, while still married to you. Don't call her gratuitous insulting names.
> 
> 6) Tell your wife every day that you still love her. Don't try for sexual affection.
> 
> 7) Tell your attorney to go shark and press for a settlement most advantageous to you. Do not try to be fair. Reopen negotiations several times. Do not help her pay for her legal defense.
> 
> 8) Take your "Beta" personality and throw it in the garbage can. Show your children how a man goes down fighting for what is his and what he believes in.
> 
> This is my opinion. It cost you nothing.


Edmund, I do like some of these recommendations but I know it's over. She told her father and everyone else, there's no doubt in her mind that it's over and she just couldn't see why I could not wrap my head around it that she doesn't love me anymore and there's no chance. I still do love her but I have moved on from the ship that she will come around during this current relationship. She has convinced herself that she would be much happier without me, even if she cannot be with her soulmate and she convinced herself that she would be a better mother if she moved on and was happier and healthier. i tried for 7 months and gave it everything I had, withstanding what every one was telling me was the case and still trying to chart my own course but kept getting deeper in deeper in emotional debt and no closer to having her come around.


----------



## MJJEAN

stillfightingforus said:


> I have been getting answers from the people on a Catholic forum and sadly, they are saying if she confessed and since the physical affair may be technically over, she can participate again. I don't know if that's fact but I still may want to find out from the man that I have called my priest for the last 17 years, connected to the school to where my kids have gone for the past 8.


Technically, you're forum friends are right.

IF she went to Reconcilliation, received Absolution, and is no longer in an adulterous relationship, she is free to receive Communion and fully participate in Mass.


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## SentHereForAReason

MJJEAN said:


> Technically, you're forum friends are right.
> 
> IF she went to Reconcilliation, received Absolution, and is no longer in an adulterous relationship, she is free to receive Communion and fully participate in Mass.


Had a talk with my Boss/Friend about this, this morning. He said the same thing. Also added, it's kind of dumb and head scratching but that is the actual truth. Also wanted to run the (my) family detaching from her thing by her and he believes it's ultimately up to me, that as far as consequences go, yes she needs them but she will eventually get them no matter how hard headed, stubborn and strong willed she is. The titanic will eventually hit the iceberg even though it's moving pretty slowly but he also mentioned once it hits and her feet are cold from the incoming flooding waters, will she even realize what just happened and why when the ship is sinking, is the even bigger question.


----------



## MJJEAN

stillfightingforus said:


> Had a talk with my Boss/Friend about this, this morning. He said the same thing. Also added, it's kind of dumb and head scratching but that is the actual truth. Also wanted to run the (my) family detaching from her thing by her and he believes it's ultimately up to me, that as far as consequences go, yes she needs them but she will eventually get them no matter how hard headed, stubborn and strong willed she is. The titanic will eventually hit the iceberg even though it's moving pretty slowly but he also mentioned once it hits and her feet are cold from the incoming flooding waters, will she even realize what just happened and why when the ship is sinking, is the even bigger question.


Not so head scratching, really. Sin is sin. God forgives us for sin, no matter how big or small, if we sincerely ask for forgiveness. The Church presumes that, when a penitent confesses, they are sincere. Once they have received Absolution their sin has been cleansed. However, that's only part of the whole. Going to Reconciliation and receiving Absolution handles the spiritual side, but there are still corporeal consequences in the physical world to deal with.

Your belief she will someday realize what she's done isn't necessarily going to come to pass. She sees the world differently than you do. Be prepared for her to never "get it" just in case she never does.


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## SentHereForAReason

Here's something interesting that may be something or it may not be. As you know if you have read my posts, my STBXW and her lover were supposed to have met and agreed to go their own ways 2 weeks ago. Like a few have suggested and I believe, she is just waiting til after the divorce and hoping he will then come back to her and hold up his end of the bargain (which I don't believe he will do) I believe he may come back to her as a secret side piece but I don't think he will ever leave his wife. Also, I have mentioned that my wife is getting chummy with a friend of his, now at least a friend of hers that she has been confiding in either as;

- a connection to OM, as they used him in the past to pass messages
- a rebound guy
- or a guy to get OM jealous

Regardless, back to my thing today. OM's wife emailed me today, it may be nothing but see for yourself. I will post her email and then the three previous emails as there is a slight change in tone in my opinion.

Email Today
"(My Name) - can you send me (My Wife's) Pinterest name again? I want to jot it down so I can monitor it from a distance.

We are making progress at home - or so it seems. Baby steps."

Email On January 1st
"(OM) doesn't blame me for anything. He's shouldered this 100%. But he has nothing to complain about. I'm a good wife who has been nothing but faithful. And he is a good husband. In spite of the past 6 months, he never failed to protect and provide for us. We never shout and argue. Ever. If we disagree it's a quick discussion and we move on. I don't knit-pick and neither does he. (OM) and I are good. We've talked and shared deep thoughts. He is beyond glad that this has come to an end. He loves me and I know he does. He knows how bad this has hurt me and has given me his word not to do it again. And I wholeheartedly believe him. (wife) may not be happy in your marriage, but she is not welcome in ours."

Email On January 5th
"They were planning to meet and talk yesterday. I suspected it and showed up at his job preventing it.
Later (OM) and I talked through everything and he said they both feel the need to have closure. (A goodbye so to speak). I gave him my permission to have that one last meeting to make it final. I believe it will be 1 day next week. 
Again, John has my permission to say goodbye in person. He needs to close the door on it to move forward."

Email on January 9th
(OM) and (My Wife) met today to say their ‘goodbye’ in person. I know there are tough days ahead as we mend and repair the damage done, but I’m hopeful that we’ll make it work.

What's sad in all of this is I understand she is upset, etc but I made it a point to offer words of support with each email, prayers, etc and she didn't once in any of the exchanges ask how i was doing or shoot over an ounce of concern on my end.


----------



## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> Here's something interesting that may be something or it may not be. As you know if you have read my posts, my STBXW and her lover were supposed to have met and agreed to go their own ways 2 weeks ago. Like a few have suggested and I believe, she is just waiting til after the divorce and hoping he will then come back to her and hold up his end of the bargain (which I don't believe he will do) I believe he may come back to her as a secret side piece but I don't think he will ever leave his wife. Also, I have mentioned that my wife is getting chummy with a friend of his, now at least a friend of hers that she has been confiding in either as;
> 
> - a connection to OM, as they used him in the past to pass messages
> - a rebound guy
> - or a guy to get OM jealous
> 
> Regardless, back to my thing today. OM's wife emailed me today, it may be nothing but see for yourself. I will post her email and then the three previous emails as there is a slight change in tone in my opinion.
> 
> Email Today
> "(My Name) - can you send me (My Wife's) Pinterest name again? I want to jot it down so I can monitor it from a distance.
> 
> We are making progress at home - or so it seems. Baby steps."
> 
> Email On January 1st
> "(OM) doesn't blame me for anything. He's shouldered this 100%. But he has nothing to complain about. I'm a good wife who has been nothing but faithful. And he is a good husband. In spite of the past 6 months, he never failed to protect and provide for us. We never shout and argue. Ever. If we disagree it's a quick discussion and we move on. I don't knit-pick and neither does he. (OM) and I are good. We've talked and shared deep thoughts. He is beyond glad that this has come to an end. He loves me and I know he does. He knows how bad this has hurt me and has given me his word not to do it again. And I wholeheartedly believe him. (wife) may not be happy in your marriage, but she is not welcome in ours."
> 
> Email On January 5th
> "They were planning to meet and talk yesterday. I suspected it and showed up at his job preventing it.
> Later (OM) and I talked through everything and he said they both feel the need to have closure. (A goodbye so to speak). I gave him my permission to have that one last meeting to make it final. I believe it will be 1 day next week.
> Again, John has my permission to say goodbye in person. He needs to close the door on it to move forward."
> 
> Email on January 9th
> (OM) and (My Wife) met today to say their ‘goodbye’ in person. I know there are tough days ahead as we mend and repair the damage done, but I’m hopeful that we’ll make it work.
> 
> What's sad in all of this is I understand she is upset, etc but I made it a point to offer words of support with each email, prayers, etc and she didn't once in any of the exchanges ask how i was doing or shoot over an ounce of concern on my end.


Closure in person and no chaperone? So much for NC. Probably go underground. Anyway, the OM wife is probably putting blame on your stxw and you are guilty by association. She does not care how you are doing.


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## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> Closure in person and no chaperone? So much for NC. Probably go underground. Anyway, the OM wife is probably putting blame on your stxw and you are guilty by association. She does not care how you are doing.


Yup and she's still that company's salesperson even though it's not even her region and everyone in her family told her to give the account to someone else and move on. The night we talked for the last time about a decision and she said to move forward with divorce 2 weeks ago, I said .... even though we are moving on, you need to cut off contact with that company for your own good. She said, it's so hard because she has made friends with all of them and they were her first real customers when she got back into sales at the beginning of 2017. Well ok, then, that's going to go well!


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## lucy999

Closure means "one last time" - that you know about. It's BS.


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## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> Yup and she's still that company's salesperson even though it's not even her region and everyone in her family told her to give the account to someone else and move on. The night we talked for the last time about a decision and she said to move forward with divorce 2 weeks ago, I said .... even though we are moving on, you need to cut off contact with that company for your own good. She said, it's so hard because she has made friends with all of them and they were her first real customers when she got back into sales at the beginning of 2017. Well ok, then, that's going to go well!


At this juncture and D moving forward your stbxw can work were she wants. She can make additional mistakes/poor choices as well. The OM W though...she should be very vigilant as the rug sweeping has commenced.


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## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> *At this juncture and D moving forward your stbxw can work were she wants*. She can make additional mistakes/poor choices as well. The OM W though...she should be very vigilant as the rug sweeping has commenced.


For sure! It was a moment of me speaking outside of being a husband rather someone showing I still cared and that it was best for her to get away from that situation in general but I'm sure that went over just as well as anything I have said the last 7 months lol!


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## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> For sure! It was a moment of me speaking outside of being a husband rather someone showing I still cared and that it was best for her to get away from that situation in general but I'm sure that went over just as well as anything I have said the last 7 months lol!


Why would you care your stbxw continues to make poor choices? STBXW cared little for you. That trend continues. Your best bet is move on showing purpose and plan.


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## Malaise

stillfightingforus said:


> For sure! It was a moment of me speaking outside of being a husband rather someone showing I still cared and that it was best for her to get away from that situation in general but I'm sure that went over just as well as anything I have said the last 7 months lol!


This is not detaching.


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## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> Why would you care your stbxw continues to make poor choices? STBXW cared little for you. That trend continues. *Your best bet is move on showing purpose and plan*.


And that's what I'm doing! The will and resolve that I had put forth to try and save the marriage alone is now being put towards my kids and moving on for what's best for us.

That moment when I said that was part of me rising above for a moment, even when she told me it was all over, that was just me being me, not expecting or wanting anything in return but to show who I really am. Was part of my moving on as well.


----------



## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> And that's what I'm doing! The will and resolve that I had put forth to try and save the marriage alone is now being put towards my kids and moving on for what's best for us.
> 
> That moment when I said that was part of me rising above for a moment, even when she told me it was all over, that was just me being me, not expecting or wanting anything in return but to show who I really am. Was part of my moving on as well.


Yes, but you are not moving on when attempting to "care". To me that is a look to see if there is a glimmer of hope for you because, "I still care for you". Rising above the moment(and there should no longer be any moments) was anything but. Be cordial and co-parent. Anything beyond is energy wasted. I understand it is hard. I have been there.


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## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> Yes, but you are not moving on when attempting to "care". To me that is a look to see if there is a glimmer of hope for you because, "I still care for you". Rising above the moment(and there should no longer be any moments) was anything but. Be cordial and co-parent. Anything beyond is energy wasted. I understand it is hard. I have been there.


Maybe it doesn't matter but to clarify. This was said in my 'closing remarks' 2 weeks ago from yesterday when the final decision was made. I have not made any similar statements since.


----------



## Edmund

stillfightingforus said:


> Edmund, I do like some of these recommendations but I know it's over. She told her father and everyone else, there's no doubt in her mind that it's over and she just couldn't see why I could not wrap my head around it that she doesn't love me anymore and there's no chance. I still do love her but I have moved on from the ship that she will come around during this current relationship. She has convinced herself that she would be much happier without me, even if she cannot be with her soulmate and she convinced herself that she would be a better mother if she moved on and was happier and healthier. i tried for 7 months and gave it everything I had, withstanding what every one was telling me was the case and still trying to chart my own course but kept getting deeper in deeper in emotional debt and no closer to having her come around.


-------------------------------------------------------

Commenters --- You keep telling SFFU to get tough, 180, stop talking to her, etc etc etc. It is all good advice, except for one important thing. HE STILL LOVES HER. He'd take her back today if she changed her mind. In spite of the insane way she has treated him and her family. Who are we to tell him to give up before it's over.

One commenter said the affair has been going on since last summer. Wrong. It has been going on since 2009. Not easy to give up after all that time. OM is a major jerk.

SFFU --- You say it's over because your wife said it's over. Tell your wife you have a say here and you say "It's NOT over until I SAY it's over and the presiding judge says it's over." Tell her that she will not be happier (she's in a fantasy world) and your kids will be very unhappy to see her only half the time. Tell her she is wrong about it being better for the children. I stand by my suggestions in post #175. Get that posse going! Definitely do #2 in view of OMW's change of tone in her e-mail communications to you. OMW knows the fire is not out, or she wouldn't want to monitor her husband commuincating using Pinterest (BTW, what the hell good is Pinterest? I don't understand how anybody communicates with that, its just a web site with a bunch of unrelated pictures that then tries to make you join it; oh well that is off topic) OMW is in denial, keeping a stiff upper lip and whistling past the graveyard, and she knows it. You can offer prayers for her fine but if you really want to help her you need to get your posse and pay OM a visit. As I recall he is a smug SOB about stealing your wife but let's see him face down three angry men. It will probably get back to your wife who will see that you are ACTUALLY "still fighting for her" in spite of the horrible way she has treated you.

SFFU I think your main problem is and always has been that you are too passive. You let your wife make all the decisions. She says, we are done, and you say "oh well that's that, I give up". You should say, we are not done, we both have a lot invested in each other, and we need to work on our problems for the sake of our family! It's the 4th quarter in this basketball game and there is still time on the clock, you keep playing until the horn sounds. It is not over until it is over.

SFFU you keep thinking logic and technicalities will change things... (I'll tell the priest and he will tell her how unGodly it is to commit adultery. She'll see she can't financially afford to live by herself. etc etc) The only thing she will notice is what serious actions you will take to keep her as your wife. Here is another one. Go to her boss in her company and explain that your wife needs to be assigned to another sales territory for the sake of your marriage. Tell the boss you don't care how good a sales person she is, she must be forbidden to deal with the customer company where she has all the "friends" including OM. Tell the boss what is going on, and that you will make it known far and wide what is happening in the company if he/she does not help you kill this affair.

I would tell the kids what is happening now rather than spring it on them later. It will hurt more later if they don't have a chance to weigh in. Let them tell mommy not to break up with daddy.

SFFU If you are just going to give up, you might as well just stop posting here because you are frustrating the commenters who want you to break up and divorce, and me who wants you to realize you still want to R but don't have a clue how to do it.

I think maybe I am getting into this TAM stuff too deeply, I need to take a break from it.


----------



## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> Maybe it doesn't matter but to clarify. This was said in my 'closing remarks' 2 weeks ago from yesterday when the final decision was made. * I have not made any similar statements since.*


Excellent!


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> Yup and she's still that company's salesperson even though it's not even her region and everyone in her family told her to give the account to someone else and move on. The night we talked for the last time about a decision and she said to move forward with divorce 2 weeks ago, I said .... even though we are moving on, you need to cut off contact with that company for your own good. She said, it's so hard because she has made friends with all of them and they were her first real customers when she got back into sales at the beginning of 2017. Well ok, then, that's going to go well!


You need to follow your own advice with your soon to be ex-wife. Stop treating her like she is your responsibility and detach. There is never going to be a time where she gets it. It's not in her nature.


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> That moment when I said that was part of me rising above for a moment, even when she told me it was all over, that was just me being me, not expecting or wanting anything in return but to show who I really am. Was part of my moving on as well.


Dude this sounds mean I know, but you being you means people like your wife will always take advantage of you. Ever see a dog get beat and keep going back to be pet? That is how you are. She has kicked you, and you are still being nice with her. Stop it. It is a signal to every other abuser that says, [This guy is the kind that can be taken advantage of]. It makes you and easy mark. It makes you unattractive to women who want to feel safe, which is every healthy one out there. These are patterns you need to fix or you will be back her with the next one. Stand up for yourself, when someone punches you punch back harder. (I mean figuratively) I get maybe that is not your M.O, but you can at least walk away.


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## sokillme

Edmund said:


> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Commenters --- You keep telling SFFU to get tough, 180, stop talking to her, etc etc etc. It is all good advice, except for one important thing. HE STILL LOVES HER.


But really, So? That really should have nothing to do with it. Feelings do not have to have any input on how you behave. I mean isn't that what we tell our kids. Isn't that what being an adult means? Emotional disciple requires action that is not based on feelings. Much better way to be. In this case he will heal much faster and afterwords have a much better life is he learns to not take any actions based on feelings. Feel your feelings but act in your best interest.


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## Edmund

Sokill are you a Vulcan? Or an android (superior to the carbon-based units infesting this planet)?


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## Rob_1

SFFU: if you would like to be a cuckold, a man with no pride, a doormat, a weak pathetic emasculated man without balls, and self-respect, FALLOW @EDMOND advice, this is what he is advising you to be.


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## Rob_1

It is @ Edmund advice I was referring to.


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## turnera

Edmund, it doesn't matter that he loves her; he can't control her. Never could. And to try to do so is madness. All professionals would tell him to pay attention to only what HE can control.


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## SentHereForAReason

Edmund said:


> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Commenters --- You keep telling SFFU to get tough, 180, stop talking to her, etc etc etc. It is all good advice, except for one important thing. HE STILL LOVES HER. He'd take her back today if she changed her mind. In spite of the insane way she has treated him and her family. Who are we to tell him to give up before it's over.
> 
> One commenter said the affair has been going on since last summer. Wrong. It has been going on since 2009. Not easy to give up after all that time. OM is a major jerk.
> 
> SFFU --- You say it's over because your wife said it's over. Tell your wife you have a say here and you say "It's NOT over until I SAY it's over and the presiding judge says it's over." Tell her that she will not be happier (she's in a fantasy world) and your kids will be very unhappy to see her only half the time. Tell her she is wrong about it being better for the children. I stand by my suggestions in post #175. Get that posse going! Definitely do #2 in view of OMW's change of tone in her e-mail communications to you. OMW knows the fire is not out, or she wouldn't want to monitor her husband commuincating using Pinterest (BTW, what the hell good is Pinterest? I don't understand how anybody communicates with that, its just a web site with a bunch of unrelated pictures that then tries to make you join it; oh well that is off topic) OMW is in denial, keeping a stiff upper lip and whistling past the graveyard, and she knows it. You can offer prayers for her fine but if you really want to help her you need to get your posse and pay OM a visit. As I recall he is a smug SOB about stealing your wife but let's see him face down three angry men. It will probably get back to your wife who will see that you are ACTUALLY "still fighting for her" in spite of the horrible way she has treated you.
> 
> SFFU I think your main problem is and always has been that you are too passive. You let your wife make all the decisions. She says, we are done, and you say "oh well that's that, I give up". You should say, we are not done, we both have a lot invested in each other, and we need to work on our problems for the sake of our family! It's the 4th quarter in this basketball game and there is still time on the clock, you keep playing until the horn sounds. It is not over until it is over.
> 
> SFFU you keep thinking logic and technicalities will change things... (I'll tell the priest and he will tell her how unGodly it is to commit adultery. She'll see she can't financially afford to live by herself. etc etc) The only thing she will notice is what serious actions you will take to keep her as your wife. Here is another one. Go to her boss in her company and explain that your wife needs to be assigned to another sales territory for the sake of your marriage. Tell the boss you don't care how good a sales person she is, she must be forbidden to deal with the customer company where she has all the "friends" including OM. Tell the boss what is going on, and that you will make it known far and wide what is happening in the company if he/she does not help you kill this affair.
> 
> I would tell the kids what is happening now rather than spring it on them later. It will hurt more later if they don't have a chance to weigh in. Let them tell mommy not to break up with daddy.
> 
> SFFU If you are just going to give up, you might as well just stop posting here because you are frustrating the commenters who want you to break up and divorce, and me who wants you to realize you still want to R but don't have a clue how to do it.
> 
> I think maybe I am getting into this TAM stuff too deeply, I need to take a break from it.


I can comment on all the suggestions here later but one at the heart of it, is already a no go. My 'posse' are the ones primarily telling me to run as fast as I can away from this and her and have been for months and these are the people in her own family.


----------



## Uselessmale

Her sins and faults will be found out. Leave her be , it’s between her and God, be the bigger person let it go.


----------



## Edmund

turnera said:


> Edmund, it doesn't matter that he loves her; he can't control her. Never could. And to try to do so is madness. All professionals would tell him to pay attention to only what HE can control.


I am not a professional. I am suggesting ways he could show her that _she_ can't control _him_ any more.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

stillfightingforus said:


> Failed a test today but honestly couldn't see anyway around it right now. I had the kids make home made bday cards for my dad and we were about to head out the door. I told the 'wife' we would be back in a bit and she said oh, I was going to go too. I didn't say anything but couldn't bring myself to say with her standing there in front of me with my kids next to me ... No it would be better if you didn't. I also need to talk to my parents to see what they want as welll. They treated her like they would any normal day. They have followed my lead and would do as I would them to do but to this point we really haven't talked about that and when she's over their kind nature just takes over on autopilot. I'm going to go to there house before work tomorrow and have a talk to them about this and see how they actually feel. It will get to the point soon enough when I can tell her no openly but since the kids don't know yet I couldn't do it front of them today .....


She is controlling you. CONTROL. CONTROL. CONTROL. To pull out my "way back" machine and quote Nancy Reagan.....Just say no!>


----------



## Rubix Cubed

stillfightingforus said:


> What's sad in all of this is I understand she is upset, etc but I made it a point to offer words of support with each email, prayers, etc and she didn't once in any of the exchanges ask how i was doing or shoot over an ounce of concern on my end.


 Just because this woman is the victim of infidelity doesn't mean she can't also be an asshat as a human. Maybe she and her WH are peas in a pod. Sometimes your enemy's enemy is not your friend.


----------



## Edmund

Rob_1 said:


> SFFU: if you would like to be a cuckold, a man with no pride, a doormat, a weak pathetic emasculated man without balls, and self-respect, FALLOW @EDMOND advice, this is what he is advising you to be.


No I am not advising him to be any of those things. I am advising him to go nuclear on saving his marriage as he has nothing more to lose at this point and he seems to be unable to detach. He would say, I don't want to offend her by doing any of these things, I'm afraid she might be angry, I have to nice her back. I am saying, go ahead and piss her off. No more Mr. Nice Guy as the book title says.

His wife must have something special if all these dudes are out there trying to grab her before she's even divorced. They have sized SFFU up by his actions and come to the conclusion he is too weak to deserve his snowflake wife, and she is available for the taking. These men are low-lifes and he should go tell them to back off and leave his wife alone.


----------



## Edmund

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> She is controlling you. CONTROL. CONTROL. CONTROL. To pull out my "way back" machine and quote Nancy Reagan.....Just say no!>


L.H. I am glad you are here. All the other posters will probably call you names because you blew your wife's affair to smithereens and forceably took her back from the OM. I am trying to tell SFFU to be like you, get angry and say I'm not going to take it any more. He should take control of the situation. The commenters say I am advising him to be a cuckold. Sheesh.

I really need to lay off of this TAM. But I have learned a lot here. Hope I never have to use what I know now.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

stillfightingforus said:


> He knows everything because I kept him updated via email through the process. Just was curious on why it seems nothing changed for her at all in the church after she informed him she was getting divorced and I had told him about the details of her betrayal.


Very few priests today are willing to rock the boat. Sadly, most of the turn a blind eye in situations such as this. 

My pastor read the riot act to my FWW when she went to talk to him after I exposed her affair. My pastor is one of the few who still are not afraid of calling a sin a sin. He also helped My cousin who was f'd over while he was deployed in Afghanistan a few years ago by his wife and best friend, Fr. A assisted him in getting an annulment in an expeditious fashion, and his XW was banned from participation on the altar at their church.

If it was me, I would seek another parish to attend mass if your STBXW still attends there.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Edmund said:


> L.H. I am glad you are here. All the other posters will probably call you names because you blew your wife's affair to smithereens and forceably took her back from the OM. I am trying to tell SFFU to be like you, get angry and say I'm not going to take it any more. He should take control of the situation. The commenters say I am advising him to be a cuckold. Sheesh.
> 
> I really need to lay off of this TAM.  But I have learned a lot here. Hope I never have to use what I know now.


SFFU's story makes my blood boil. Certain similarities to my situation as he appeared to do everything for his wife And ignored his needs. I went to the extreme to pamper my wife and kids as I came up poor and after my combat experiences, I promised myself I would never hurt another human being. I was too nice as SFFU. After I was messed over, the devil dog in me surfaced, and the status quo changed in my favor as I went nuclear on her. I tried to pep up SFFU to do likewise. Oh well. Women respect strength not weakness. My hope is he will find his inner strength as kick her to the curb, and find him a kind and considerate woman.

PS: I could care less what other posters think. I did what I had to do, and things are going very well now.
I listened to the wise posters who had been there done that....they were right. One should not ignore their advice.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Very few priests today are willing to rock the boat. Sadly, most of the turn a blind eye in situations such as this.
> 
> My pastor read the riot act to my FWW when she went to talk to him after I exposed her affair. My pastor is one of the few who still are not afraid of calling a sin a sin. He also helped My cousin who was f'd over while he was deployed in Afghanistan a few years ago by his wife and best friend, Fr. A assisted him in getting an annulment in an expeditious fashion, and his XW was banned from participation on the altar at their church.
> 
> If it was me, I would seek another parish to attend mass if your STBXW still attends there.


If I find out favoritism is truly in play here then I would seriously consider it. The sticky situation is my kids going to the school that is connected to this parish. What I'm leaning towards right now is that after we tell the kids, I plan on going to a different mass. If wife goes Saturday, I'll go Sunday, etc. 

As far as telling the kids, I think I posted her that I have been dedicating my sessions in IC for how to deal with this issue. Had a great session today with a great plan that she helped me with that makes a ton of sense. It essentially involves a multi-faceted approach that doesn't even involve telling them about the split or the divorce and everything else in one sitting, it's plan that builds up to that point by re-inforcing what's NOT going to change for them and then goes into eventually what is going to change but over a period of time, where I allow them to ask questions and I answer them but I don't over inform.


----------



## Rob_1

@Edmund said: "No I am not advising him to be any of those things. I am advising him to go nuclear on saving his marriage as he has nothing more to lose at this point and he seems to be unable to detach."

Yes, you are advising him to take back his cheating, disrespectful wife. What man that call himself a man would take back a woman that cheats on him, that would continue cheating on him? Only a weak, pathetic guy that has very low self steem, that is willing to be a cuckold in order to have her.

Remember, what we see here in these forums, with all these emotionally wreaked men that can not function right because of the deep shock and pain of finding that the woman that they had put on a pedestal, or that they took for granted for so long because in their daily life these women were their everything just dumped them for another guy are nothing but a small minority of the men out there around the world that get cheated by their woman.

The big majority of men anywhere around the world do not react in the weak, pathetic, and sometimes downright emasculated way as some of the men that post in these type of forums. Quite the contrary most men react quite strong, in a decisive and immediate manner. They immediately dump their woman, no buts about it. As a matter of fact a good percentage of men react violently. Haven't you ever heard of passion crimes?

To most men around the world the thought of taking back their woman after she's been ****ing other man/men is quite repunant, and it would mean their self-respect as men.

So you advicing the OP to go nuclear on getting her back after all she's done to him to the point that he basically humiliated himself in front of her to get her back, you are basically telling him to be a weak, pathetic, doormat to his wife, because it doesn't matter anything like his self-respect as a man as long as he gets her back. 
No I don't buy that, you maybe, but not me nor most men in this world.


----------



## Edmund

Rob_1 said:


> @Edmund said: "No I am not advising him to be any of those things. I am advising him to go nuclear on saving his marriage as he has nothing more to lose at this point and he seems to be unable to detach."
> 
> Yes, you are advising him to take back his cheating, disrespectful wife. What man that call himself a man would take back a woman that cheats on him, that would continue cheating on him? Only a weak, pathetic guy that has very low self steem, that is willing to be a cuckold in order to have her.
> 
> Remember, what we see here in these forums, with all these emotionally wreaked men that can not function right because of the deep shock and pain of finding that the woman that they had put on a pedestal, or that they took for granted for so long because in their daily life these women were their everything just dumped them for another guy are nothing but a small minority of the men out there around the world that get cheated by their woman.
> 
> The big majority of men anywhere around the world do not react in the weak, pathetic, and sometimes downright emasculated way as some of the men that post in these type of forums. Quite the contrary most men react quite strong, in a decisive and immediate manner. They immediately dump their woman, no buts about it. As a matter of fact a good percentage of men react violently. Haven't you ever heard of passion crimes?
> 
> To most men around the world the thought of taking back their woman after she's been ****ing other man/men is quite repunant, and it would mean their self-respect as men.
> 
> So you advicing the OP to go nuclear on getting her back after all she's done to him to the point that he basically humiliated himself in front of her to get her back, you are basically telling him to be a weak, pathetic, doormat to his wife, because it doesn't matter anything like his self-respect as a man as long as he gets her back.
> No I don't buy that, you maybe, but not me nor most men in this world.


Well we will just disagree. I know what my intent was and I don't really care what you think. OP just started another new thread to continue this probably to get away from me, so I'm leaving SFFU alone from here on out. I am wasting too much time on TAM, and I am going to drop out as soon as some other threads reach conclusion.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

The bad thing is they are living under the same roof. Not good. She has not experienced the cold hard consequences of her actions. The best thing would be for her to vacate and live elsewhere. Only then can she get a taste of the loneliness on experiences living in a dark dank apartment. Damn I am channeling my man Vern Gosdin.

"You don't know about lonely
Or how long nights can be
Till you've lived through the story
That's still livin' in me
You don't know about sadness
Till you've faced life alone
You don't know about lonely
Till it's chiseled in stone"- Vern Gosdin

Until she experiences isolation and loneliness nothing is going to change for her. Classic control freak cheating wife.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Edmund said:


> Well we will just disagree. I know what my intent was and I don't really care what you think. OP just started another new thread to continue this probably to get away from me, so I'm leaving SFFU alone from here on out. I am wasting too much time on TAM, and I am going to drop out as soon as some other threads reach conclusion.


The thread on the Divorce board? No, started that because this one seemed like it was about to die and it no longer applied to the exact situation but it's flaring back up  I started that thread a week or so ago I think, maybe even further back.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> The bad thing is they are living under the same roof. Not good. She has not experienced the cold hard consequences of her actions. The best thing would be for her to vacate and live elsewhere. Only then can she get a taste of the loneliness on experiences living in a dark dank apartment. Damn I am channeling my man Vern Gosdin.
> 
> "You don't know about lonely
> Or how long nights can be
> Till you've lived through the story
> That's still livin' in me
> You don't know about sadness
> Till you've faced life alone
> You don't know about lonely
> Till it's chiseled in stone"- Vern Gosdin
> 
> Until she experiences isolation and loneliness nothing is going to change for her. Classic control freak cheating wife.


I agree and I actually brought this up several times with my lawyer but it's a no go. I even suggested we get separated and she can move out and do whatever she wants and I'll make sure the kids are good while she finds herself but by then it was too late. I regret things, I don't regret leading with my heart but I regret leading for too long. If I would have done what I'm doing now, she would have still been thick in the fog, seeing him everyday and would have been too distracted to put up a big fight. Now that things are cooled with the other man because the wife is tracking his every single move, she has time for the kids and as my lawyer said, she's now "mom of the year" with sarcasm obviously. Lawyer believes that she won't be able to keep it up though.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

No she can't keep it up. It is a facade. She is trying to play the role....aka actress. From your posts I perceive her as extremely narcissistic, image conscious, and totally insecure with herself. This is not your problem, as you can't fix her. One day she will have an epiphany and realize what a total piece of **** she is.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Not a great night internally and I will explain why. I have been 180 focused this month and it has got me in a good place, well the best place I can be in for the situation.

She has been trying to communicate with me over the last few weeks, wanting to talk about splitting up assets, just talking about dinners, when to tell the kids, she wants to tag along to my next counseling meeting so she can get the plan my counselor has been laying out for me with the kids. Through all of this, I have been avoiding her, keeping it short and just being direct to the point with everything. Kids, dinner and kids pickup from school arrangements and that's about it, with maybe some laundry and weekend plans for what we want to do with the kids in between. Like I was telling my cousin today, some days I can go less than nine total words with her.

She gets upset when I'm making decisions without consulting her, my counselor said it's because she knows she can no longer control me. There's a lot more that i can explain but tonight was a good microcosm and something that pisses me off emotionally.

She came home tonight after her church planning meeting and said we needed to talk for a bit, I said ok. She started to tear up and said that our nephew knows about the divorce and she's afraid that the kids are going to find out indirectly. So she wants to go to my counselor next week to go over the process. She then said she left early to go to the meeting because she wanted to meet with our Priest. She said she had a really rough day and started crying more and said that Father Tom made her feel better, he always does since he's a good friend of hers.

Then this is where it goes into where it hurts for me still. She says we need to work on our communication and that we will have to work together for many years to come because of the kids and she wants me to assure her that that will be the case and I said of course, I will do what's best for the kids when it involves all of us. Through this entire month, it's like she expects for us to be friends. Tonight, she outright said it! She was hoping that we can be or still be friends through this. I didn't answer, I just looked at her and she said, oh I guess that's your answer then. She said I know you are angry but I just know this is what is best in my heart to go through with this and that we will all be better off and eventually the kids will be as well. 

I talked to someone in my central support circle after this and I told her what I was thinking in my head when she asked if we can be friends. I was thinking that NO, you were my friend (name), my best friend and you still could have been but sadly that's not my fault. No I cannot be friends with you, not because I hate you but because you broke apart the thing I loved most on this earth, our marriage. She said I should have told Betsy that but I know that's anti-180.

I just kept a straight face through the entire conversation as she cried and re-affirmed what she was concerned about so I knew how to proceed, that she is worried about the kids finding out through other people first. I said ok, I will ask my counselor and go from there.

I do not like talking to her about these things because a lot of it is part of my 180 plan but also because she can talk about most of it, other than tonight, without emotion and like it's a business transaction. I don't want to deal with that. Someone that thinks we can still be (only) friends. This is why I avoid her, I'm focused and doing fine but a continued reminder of how she thinks this is the best in her heart and the fact that she thinks I'm a friend. I've been friend-zoned before and that's ok but from someone I was trying to pickup in high school, not from my wife who I dedicated 17 years of my life to.


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> Not a great night internally and I will explain why. I have been 180 focused this month and it has got me in a good place, well the best place I can be in for the situation.
> 
> She has been trying to communicate with me over the last few weeks, wanting to talk about splitting up assets, just talking about dinners, when to tell the kids, she wants to tag along to my next counseling meeting so she can get the plan my counselor has been laying out for me with the kids. Through all of this, I have been avoiding her, keeping it short and just being direct to the point with everything. Kids, dinner and kids pickup from school arrangements and that's about it, with maybe some laundry and weekend plans for what we want to do with the kids in between. Like I was telling my cousin today, some days I can go less than nine total words with her.
> 
> She gets upset when I'm making decisions without consulting her, my counselor said it's because she knows she can no longer control me. There's a lot more that i can explain but tonight was a good microcosm and something that pisses me off emotionally.
> 
> She came home tonight after her church planning meeting and said we needed to talk for a bit, I said ok. She started to tear up and said that our nephew knows about the divorce and she's afraid that the kids are going to find out indirectly. So she wants to go to my counselor next week to go over the process. She then said she left early to go to the meeting because she wanted to meet with our Priest. She said she had a really rough day and started crying more and said that Father Tom made her feel better, he always does since he's a good friend of hers.
> 
> Then this is where it goes into where it hurts for me still. She says we need to work on our communication and that we will have to work together for many years to come because of the kids and she wants me to assure her that that will be the case and I said of course, I will do what's best for the kids when it involves all of us. Through this entire month, it's like she expects for us to be friends. Tonight, she outright said it! She was hoping that we can be or still be friends through this. I didn't answer, I just looked at her and she said, oh I guess that's your answer then. She said I know you are angry but I just know this is what is best in my heart to go through with this and that we will all be better off and eventually the kids will be as well.
> 
> I talked to someone in my central support circle after this and I told her what I was thinking in my head when she asked if we can be friends. I was thinking that NO, you were my friend (name), my best friend and you still could have been but sadly that's not my fault. No I cannot be friends with you, not because I hate you but because you broke apart the thing I loved most on this earth, our marriage. She said I should have told Betsy that but I know that's anti-180.
> 
> I just kept a straight face through the entire conversation as she cried and re-affirmed what she was concerned about so I knew how to proceed, that she is worried about the kids finding out through other people first. I said ok, I will ask my counselor and go from there.
> 
> I do not like talking to her about these things because a lot of it is part of my 180 plan but also because she can talk about most of it, other than tonight, without emotion and like it's a business transaction. I don't want to deal with that. Someone that thinks we can still be (only) friends. This is why I avoid her, I'm focused and doing fine but a continued reminder of how she thinks this is the best in her heart and the fact that she thinks I'm a friend. I've been friend-zoned before and that's ok but from someone I was trying to pickup in high school, not from my wife who I dedicated 17 years of my life to.


This is her M.O., the tears are there to manipulate you, she is crying for herself. In the past you were a push over, she knows this and will use it. Yes your kids will be fine, you don't have to be friends to do what's best for the kids. For years my parents didn't talk at all unless they were yelling about money. I was fine. I found them annoying but eventually I just told them to handle it themselves. I survived. They will too. As time passes you both will move on with your lives and all of this drama will be over. Hopefully you get your codependency fixed and move on to a better relationship, and unless she gets her problem is her and no man is going to magically fix it your wife will inevitably move on from looser to looser. Right now she hasn't a clue. You are the focus and the reason of everything that is actually wrong with her in her mind. Though both of your dynamic probably heightened it.

By the way If it was me I would take a trip to talk to Father Tom and correct all the bull**** she has been telling him about your marriage. GD she is so lucky she is not married to me, right when she said how worried she was the kids will find out, my response would be, "wait until they get older and they find out how you cheated on me and them." I'm not nice. >

Dude your wife sucks. She is just not a very nice person, she sounds like a little child actually. If you deal with your codependency first, but if you do eventually you will meet another women and you will be just shocked how F-ed up your whole marriage was. It is not OK the way she treats you, it has never been OK. It's not OK no matter what role anyone has in your life for them to manipulate, lie and totally disrespect you or anyone else. You need to find your anger, and your steely resolve. I hope and pray that you get this, because that is going to be the key to the rest of your life. I don't mean, "I'm mad this happened. Why can't she be the way I want." I mean "How dare anyone treat me this way. Why the hell did I put up with this. Never again!" That will actually help you in all future relationships. That will make you attractive. That will set the bar much higher, and will bring you a better class of women, and quickly weed out the losers, like your soon to be ex.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

On another note, it was our daughter's Bday party on Sunday. My brother was in town from out of state. She went to hug him and he held his hand up to stop it and then extended it to shake her hand.

As for my parents, my mom said by to her (wanted to leave without a hug/embrace), my dad was almost out the door and she 'ran' over to the door to give them both a hug before they left.


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> On another note, it was our daughter's Bday party on Sunday. My brother was in town from out of state. She went to hug him and he held his hand up to stop it and then extended it to shake her hand.
> 
> As for my parents, my mom said by to her (wanted to leave without a hug/embrace), my dad was almost out the door and she 'ran' over to the door to give them both a hug before they left.


Lord spare us from these silly women.


----------



## sandcastle

sokillme said:


> Lord spare us from these silly women.


Uh- I'm not sure who win the "silliest" award here.

Thank God, his family gave her a handshake with no hug. Apparently they have a shred of self- something.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Not a great night internally and I will explain why. I have been 180 focused this month and it has got me in a good place, well the best place I can be in for the situation.
> 
> She has been trying to communicate with me over the last few weeks, wanting to talk about splitting up assets, just talking about dinners, when to tell the kids, she wants to tag along to my next counseling meeting so she can get the plan my counselor has been laying out for me with the kids. Through all of this, I have been avoiding her, keeping it short and just being direct to the point with everything. Kids, dinner and kids pickup from school arrangements and that's about it, with maybe some laundry and weekend plans for what we want to do with the kids in between. Like I was telling my cousin today, some days I can go less than nine total words with her.
> 
> She gets upset when I'm making decisions without consulting her, my counselor said it's because she knows she can no longer control me. There's a lot more that i can explain but tonight was a good microcosm and something that pisses me off emotionally.
> 
> She came home tonight after her church planning meeting and said we needed to talk for a bit, I said ok. She started to tear up and said that our nephew knows about the divorce and she's afraid that the kids are going to find out indirectly. So she wants to go to my counselor next week to go over the process. She then said she left early to go to the meeting because she wanted to meet with our Priest. She said she had a really rough day and started crying more and said that Father Tom made her feel better, he always does since he's a good friend of hers.
> 
> Then this is where it goes into where it hurts for me still. She says we need to work on our communication and that we will have to work together for many years to come because of the kids and she wants me to assure her that that will be the case and I said of course, I will do what's best for the kids when it involves all of us. Through this entire month, it's like she expects for us to be friends. Tonight, she outright said it! She was hoping that we can be or still be friends through this. I didn't answer, I just looked at her and she said, oh I guess that's your answer then. She said I know you are angry but I just know this is what is best in my heart to go through with this and that we will all be better off and eventually the kids will be as well.
> 
> I talked to someone in my central support circle after this and I told her what I was thinking in my head when she asked if we can be friends. I was thinking that NO, you were my friend (name), my best friend and you still could have been but sadly that's not my fault. No I cannot be friends with you, not because I hate you but because you broke apart the thing I loved most on this earth, our marriage. She said I should have told Betsy that but I know that's anti-180.
> 
> I just kept a straight face through the entire conversation as she cried and re-affirmed what she was concerned about so I knew how to proceed, that she is worried about the kids finding out through other people first. I said ok, I will ask my counselor and go from there.
> 
> I do not like talking to her about these things because a lot of it is part of my 180 plan but also because she can talk about most of it, other than tonight, without emotion and like it's a business transaction. I don't want to deal with that. Someone that thinks we can still be (only) friends. This is why I avoid her, I'm focused and doing fine but a continued reminder of how she thinks this is the best in her heart and the fact that she thinks I'm a friend. I've been friend-zoned before and that's ok but from someone I was trying to pickup in high school, not from my wife who I dedicated 17 years of my life to.


Save yourself lots of drama including crocodile tears by just telling her to email all the necessary particulars. 

Kids are going to figure it. It amazes how unaware parents are of what children observe and deduce. As far as butting into your counseling session tell her to get her own counselor. 

As far as friends the 180 does not mean you cannot call someone an ahole for stabbing you in back and then wanting to be friends after. So they can do it again.

Your wife needs a reality check. It would not hurt you or her to tell her exactly how you feel. I would like to think that she disgusts you because for almost a decade she cheated, lied about it and dragged you through a emotional wringer while you desperately tried to save your marriage. A marriage she so coldly has shown you that she really didn't care about. 

Maybe if you told her that she will stop trying to be your friend and stick to her true facade, that of a cold heartless b-word.


----------



## sokillme

sandcastle said:


> Uh- I'm not sure who win the "silliest" award here.
> 
> Thank God, his family gave her a handshake with no hug. Apparently they have a shred of self- something.


You're not wrong. I just get tired of reading it, over and over. Same story, different ineffectual guy.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

I mean you guys telegraphed a lot to me and told me what would happen, analyzed exactly what was happening, etc and that all came through pretty much spot on and it's helped me identify stuff even now. One of the things that I didn't think everyone had pegged, even though I had heard it a lot and from people in my own most trusted circle is that I need to not involve her family as much in the process of trying to 'save' it from June through December.

In business, in my personal life outside of the marriage and with my side ventures, I have made living out of planning and strategizing the perfect scenarios and then executing with a lot of success, having backup plans when the first things fail, having tricks up my sleeve, etc. I've had a lot of success even when people told me I was crazy or it's never going to work.

I took this strategy to the marriage saving plan and involved a network of people that I thought would help me 'snap' her out of it. As at least a few of you had said, this wasn't going to turn out well. I must say, even to this day, I have some allies that I know I can trust forever, some that just whittled away because it's not worth their time anymore and some that were playing both side (even more so, her side). This was a good learning experience for me in that aspect as well. I had the perfect battle plan in my mind and when it all came together to strike, it had minimal impact. That's when I truly learned that no matter what was said to her, the emotion of the affair and the internal issues that have pushed everything away was far too strong and eventually withstood strike.

I understand all of that now but the sad part is that I now see even more why she is the way she is. The family members (not all by any means) in her life that supported this way of life or selfishness, almost no consequences if any at all and coddled it are doing the same to this day and don't even understand that it's the worst thing for her. Not the Divorce but the lack of tough love and endurance in that aspect. It's sad to see but there's nothing that I can do about it now. Most of my days are pretty good now. I no longer really want her as I have replaced any time I think of that with thoughts of what she did to me over a year's time. But I do get sad when I think about the notion of having one wife for life, the the mother of my children. Heartbroke over the loss of the ideal vs. the loss of the person, since she is not the person I fell in love with anymore.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> I mean you guys telegraphed a lot to me and told me what would happen, analyzed exactly what was happening, etc and that all came through pretty much spot on and it's helped me identify stuff even now. One of the things that I didn't think everyone had pegged, even though I had heard it a lot and from people in my own most trusted circle is that I need to not involve her family as much in the process of trying to 'save' it from June through December.
> 
> In business, in my personal life outside of the marriage and with my side ventures, I have made living out of planning and strategizing the perfect scenarios and then executing with a lot of success, having backup plans when the first things fail, having tricks up my sleeve, etc. I've had a lot of success even when people told me I was crazy or it's never going to work.
> 
> I took this strategy to the marriage saving plan and involved a network of people that I thought would help me 'snap' her out of it. As at least a few of you had said, this wasn't going to turn out well. I must say, even to this day, I have some allies that I know I can trust forever, some that just whittled away because it's not worth their time anymore and some that were playing both side (even more so, her side). This was a good learning experience for me in that aspect as well. I had the perfect battle plan in my mind and when it all came together to strike, it had minimal impact. That's when I truly learned that no matter what was said to her, the emotion of the affair and the internal issues that have pushed everything away was far too strong and eventually withstood strike.
> 
> I understand all of that now but the sad part is that I now see even more why she is the way she is. The family members (not all by any means) in her life that supported this way of life or selfishness, almost no consequences if any at all and coddled it are doing the same to this day and don't even understand that it's the worst thing for her. Not the Divorce but the lack of tough love and endurance in that aspect. It's sad to see but there's nothing that I can do about it now. Most of my days are pretty good now. I no longer really want her as I have replaced any time I think of that with thoughts of what she did to me over a year's time. But I do get sad when I think about the notion of having one wife for life, the the mother of my children. Heartbroke over the loss of the ideal vs. the loss of the person, since she is not the person I fell in love with anymore.


SFFU,

STOP!

Reading this makes me want to commit seppuku. Your ideal and the reality have not coexisted for a decade. She is not worth the time spent agonizing while writing that paragraph. 

As for friends of the marriage there is not much you can do. Being annoyed about whose side they are on means nothing to them and really does nothing for you. 

She moved on a long time ago. In a really unfair way. Instead of pining for something that does not exist how about being really angry at her and making sure she and all her enablers know it. Then channel that anger into something positive, like making sure your kids don't emulate her and her enabling family/friends.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> SFFU,
> 
> STOP!
> 
> Reading this makes me want to commit seppuku. Your ideal and the reality have not coexisted for a decade. She is not worth the time spent agonizing while writing that paragraph.
> 
> As for friends of the marriage there is not much you can do. Being annoyed about whose side they are on means nothing to them and really does nothing for you.
> 
> She moved on a long time ago. In a really unfair way. Instead of pining for something that does not exist how about being really angry at her and making sure she and all her enablers know it. Then channel that anger into something positive, *like making sure your kids don't emulate her* and her enabling family/friends.


This is going to be a huge battle but one that I'm ready to take on when I'm it's just me and the kids. My son is a carbon copy of me in terms of demeanor and just about everything else, that as you would probably say will be an issue with the Nice Guy stuff, so we are working on that already. For my daughter, that's where I will have to walk a fine line for now and go deeper into when it's just me and the kids. She is a carbon copy of my wife. Emotions change on a dime, blames others or other things for mistakes or things she did wrong (you made me do that). I have to walk a fine line so I keep her sane and not go overboard in the current situation but once the time is split between us or i have primary custody, then I can start to really implement things my counselor is helping me with to get her in tune with what should be reality and consequences and above all else PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> This is going to be a huge battle but one that I'm ready to take on when I'm it's just me and the kids. My son is a carbon copy of me in terms of demeanor and just about everything else, that as you would probably say will be an issue with the Nice Guy stuff, so we are working on that already. For my daughter, that's where I will have to walk a fine line for now and go deeper into when it's just me and the kids. She is a carbon copy of my wife. Emotions change on a dime, blames others or other things for mistakes or things she did wrong (you made me do that). I have to walk a fine line so I keep her sane and not go overboard in the current situation but once the time is split between us or i have primary custody, then I can start to really implement things my counselor is helping me with to get her in tune with what should be reality and consequences and above all else PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!


That's more like it!


----------



## colingrant

I used to follow your original thread, but soon realized after many pages that you were hell bent to "wish" and "nice" her back at all costs, so I discontinued having interest knowing where it was going and feeling confident that your inability to see the forest through the trees would cause you much hurt and despair. I've read hundreds of threads on infidelity sites and cannot remember one reconciliation coming from "wishing" or "nice-ing" the WS back. In fact, it's the opposite that leads to results and you were and still remain far from it. Even your filing is seemingly apologetic. You can be a nice guy and make difficult decisions. Your wife is so far gone she's not even ashamed or embarrassed with her scandalous behaviors. She's resigned to her actions as being fate. You could have been MUCH further along had you acted derisively months ago, but it's not too late. Be decisive now and stand up for yourself with dignity so that come August, you can see yourself in a much better situation.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

colingrant said:


> I used to follow your original thread, but soon realized after many pages that you were hell bent to "wish" and "nice" her back at all costs, so I discontinued having interest knowing where it was going and feeling confident that your inability to see the forest through the trees would cause you much hurt and despair. I've read hundreds of threads on infidelity sites and cannot remember one reconciliation coming from "wishing" or "nice-ing" the WS back. In fact, it's the opposite that leads to results and you were and still remain far from it. Even your filing is seemingly apologetic. You can be a nice guy and make difficult decisions. Your wife is so far gone she's not even ashamed or embarrassed with her scandalous behaviors. She's resigned to her actions as being fate. You could have been MUCH further along had you acted derisively months ago, but it's not too late. Be decisive now and stand up for yourself with dignity so that come August, you can see yourself in a much better situation.


"wishing" or "nice-ing" the WS back - I totally agree with this now. I am cordial since we have to live together for the next 5 or so months still and we have the kids at home but other than that, I probably on average say 7-10 words to her a day, which involve who's picking up the kids being the only real conversation we have each day, around 4PM.

Your wife is so far gone she's not even ashamed or embarrassed with her scandalous behaviors - dead on. She has always said that the affair had nothing to do with our problems in marriage, she blame shifted everything onto me but her contradictions were so bad. From I am too accommodating to I didn't show love to why didn't I do this before to it wouldn't have mattered.

She's resigned to her actions as being fate - again dead on, she believes she will be much happier moving on and that it's the best for her and for the kids because she will be happier and healthier. She told the other man straight up that they were meant to be, soulmates and a million other things to that point.


I have been 180'ing pretty well for about a month now. Even when she tries to engage in conversation I deflect, give short answers and either act disinterested until she leaves the room or I leave the room. The latest conversation about her wanting to be friends after this took the cake. I still have a lot of things that bring back good memories and those hurt but to be honest, I can't even look her in the face anymore without feeling disdain for what she had done for almost a year and what she continues to do. I have no proof or really even care to find out what she is doing now but she either took a break with the married man, her soulmate until things cool down or she has 100% moved on to the next guy who was there secret messenger and now maybe more than a friend, as the rebound guy. I don't even look at her Pinterest account any more, just a sad case of someone trying to convince themself what they did and are doing is totally right and how good of a person she is. I'll never forget the pin, forget the exact words but it's about her having a heart of gold and a great soul, etc, etc. Like you said, so far gone that even the little logic she had months ago is now gone.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> "wishing" or "nice-ing" the WS back - I totally agree with this now. I am cordial since we have to live together for the next 5 or so months still and we have the kids at home but other than that, I probably on average say 7-10 words to her a day, which involve who's picking up the kids being the only real conversation we have each day, around 4PM.
> 
> Your wife is so far gone she's not even ashamed or embarrassed with her scandalous behaviors - dead on. She has always said that the affair had nothing to do with our problems in marriage, she blame shifted everything onto me but her contradictions were so bad. From I am too accommodating to I didn't show love to why didn't I do this before to it wouldn't have mattered.
> 
> She's resigned to her actions as being fate - again dead on, she believes she will be much happier moving on and that it's the best for her and for the kids because she will be happier and healthier. She told the other man straight up that they were meant to be, soulmates and a million other things to that point.
> 
> 
> I have been 180'ing pretty well for about a month now. Even when she tries to engage in conversation I deflect, give short answers and either act disinterested until she leaves the room or I leave the room. The latest conversation about her wanting to be friends after this took the cake. I still have a lot of things that bring back good memories and those hurt but to be honest, I can't even look her in the face anymore without feeling disdain for what she had done for almost a year and what she continues to do. I have no proof or really even care to find out what she is doing now but she either took a break with the married man, her soulmate until things cool down or she has 100% moved on to the next guy who was there secret messenger and now maybe more than a friend, as the rebound guy. *I don't even look at her Pinterest account any more, just a sad case of someone trying to convince themself what they did and are doing is totally right and how good of a person she is. I'll never forget the pin, forget the exact words but it's about her having a heart of gold and a great soul, etc, etc.* Like you said, so far gone that even the little logic she had months ago is now gone.



I'm sure Judas told himself the same things. Then he hung himself. 

You sound much much better now than just a few months ago. Keep it up, you are doing the right thing, for yourself and your kids.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Why in the hell are you living under the same roof? Unhealthy for your mental health to say the least. Why won't she vacate?

Do you really want to be friends with someone who has total disdain for you? Do not let her blameshift. I can see where this is going. She will very likely make you out to be the bad guy to family and friends as well as your children.

I am glad you are following the 180. Keep it up. I am concerned about the comments you made about your children's disposition. Get your son counseling if necessary, and the same for your daughter. 

I wish you the best SFFU. You seem like a stand-up guy.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Tell Fr. Tom you are done with his parish. Any priest worth his weight in salt would tell her she is wrong.


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## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Why in the hell are you living under the same roof? Unhealthy for your mental health to say the least. Why won't she vacate?
> 
> Do you really want to be friends with someone who has total disdain for you? Do not let her blameshift. I can see where this is going. She will very likely make you out to be the bad guy to family and friends as well as your children.
> 
> I am glad you are following the 180. Keep it up. I am concerned about the comments you made about your children's disposition. Get your son counseling if necessary, and the same for your daughter.
> 
> I wish you the best SFFU. You seem like a stand-up guy.


Thank you Sir, I appreciate it!


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

SFFU, Do not sir me, I was an NCO. LOL


----------



## Marc878

Friends is part of the cheater script. They all do this.

It's to alieviate guilt and make themselves feel better. Nothing in it for you.

Definition of friend = loyal, honest and trustworthy. She's not friend material.

Only a doormat would accept this.

Even if you have kids you can hard 180. I know a few who do this well and they swear it's the best thing they could've done.

Never answer a phone call direct. Only respond to text or email, kids or business only. Short and civil. Anything else gets no response.

Pick ups/ drop offs are a 5 minute exercise with no engagement.

Kinda awkward upfront but how was her cheating on you? You owe her nothing now set up your boundaries and get it done.

You will be so much better off if you can do that.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Marc878 said:


> Friends is part of the cheater script. They all do this.
> 
> It's to alieviate guilt and make themselves feel better. Nothing in it for you.
> 
> Definition of friend = loyal, honest and trustworthy. She's not friend material.
> 
> Only a doormat would accept this.
> 
> Even if you have kids you can hard 180. I know a few who do this well and they swear it's the best thing they could've done.
> 
> Never answer a phone call direct. Only respond to text or email, kids or business only. Short and civil. Anything else gets no response.
> 
> Pick ups/ drop offs are a 5 minute exercise with no engagement.
> 
> Kinda awkward upfront but how was her cheating on you? You owe her nothing now set up your boundaries and get it done.
> 
> You will be so much better off if you can do that.


It actually hurt that she could think we could be just friends but I wrote it off for what it is, what she is and oh well, gotta live with it, nothing I can do to change it. It is awkward but also empowering to look at her in this new light, not my wife anymore but the person that ruined my dreams of what I thought our lives would be like as a family forever. 

Talks have been short and to the point, she thinks I'm being mean but I'm not. As my counselor has said, she is probably more mad than anything that she has no control over me anymore. So to compensate she gets on her phone and texts and does whatever with whomever during the day, don't even really think about it much anymore and just assume she's having the time of her life while she's supposed to be working. Only part that's hard to combat emotionally is when she is on the phone and laughing and giggling, etc.


----------



## Marc878

stillfightingforus said:


> It actually hurt that she could think we could be just friends but I wrote it off for what it is, what she is and oh well, gotta live with it, nothing I can do to change it. It is awkward but also empowering to look at her in this new light, not my wife anymore but the person that ruined my dreams of what I thought our lives would be like as a family forever.
> 
> Talks have been short and to the point, she thinks I'm being mean but I'm not. *As my counselor has said, she is probably more mad than anything that she has no control over me anymore.* So to compensate she gets on her phone and texts and does whatever with whomever during the day, don't even really think about it much anymore and just assume she's having the time of her life while she's supposed to be working. Only part that's hard to combat emotionally is when she is on the phone and laughing and giggling, etc.


Very astute observation.

Ignore the hell out of her. *Go your own way!!!*


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## Malaise

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Tell Fr. Tom you are done with his parish. Any priest worth his weight in salt would tell her she is wrong.


She seems to do a lot for the parish. How much of that would the good father have to do himself if she were to leave?


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## SentHereForAReason

Malaise said:


> Lonely husband 42301 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell Fr. Tom you are done with his parish. Any priest worth his weight in salt would tell her she is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> She seems to do a lot for the parish. How much of that would the good father have to do himself if she were to leave?
Click to expand...

It's just stuff another parishioner would do. There's plenty of people in these groups and areas where she serves. I just honestly think she was able to pull the wool over his eyes by having him feeling sorry for her like she can do almost anyone. I think in a way she spun me as the bad guy, especially with his comment about me having her served. Thing is, this guy is one of the level headed humans I know but still think she must have 'gotten' to him. Here's an excerpt from an email to me that leads me to believe my message wasn't heard clearly.


"I was taken aback when I met with ----- because she told me that you were going to serve papers on her for a divorce. I remember you telling me that you would do anything to save the marriage. Things had obviously happened that I was not aware of.

I believe that ----- was open and honest in meeting with me. I also believe that emotionally she is a wreck and very confused. My advice to her was to lie low for two weeks, do a lot of thinking and praying and then come back and see me. "

Thing is. She used those two weeks to catch up legally and think of questions to ask OM and how she could meet him secretly again. I updated Father on all of this but never got a response via email back.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> It's just stuff another parishioner would do. There's plenty of people in these groups and areas where she serves. I just honestly think she was able to pull the wool over his eyes by having him feeling sorry for her like she can do almost anyone. I think in a way she spun me as the bad guy, especially with his comment about me having her served. Thing is, this guy is one of the level headed humans I know but still think she must have 'gotten' to him. Here's an excerpt from an email to me that leads me to believe my message wasn't heard clearly.
> 
> 
> "I was taken aback when I met with ----- because she told me that you were going to serve papers on her for a divorce. I remember you telling me that you would do anything to save the marriage. Things had obviously happened that I was not aware of.
> 
> I believe that ----- was open and honest in meeting with me. I also believe that emotionally she is a wreck and very confused. My advice to her was to lie low for two weeks, do a lot of thinking and praying and then come back and see me. "
> 
> Thing is. She used those two weeks to catch up legally and think of questions to ask OM and how she could meet him secretly again. I updated Father on all of this but never got a response via email back.


just tell him you served her because she has been sleeping with another man for 10 years while married to you. Then ask him the churches position on how long you should sit and wait for a unrepentant cheater? 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, a lifetime until you die?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Change churches dude. Make sure the Father knows why.


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## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> just tell him you served her because she has been sleeping with another man for 10 years while married to you. Then ask him the churches position on how long you should sit and wait for a unrepentant cheater? 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, a lifetime until you die?


From what I provided there in his email, does it look like he did have the wool pulled over his eyes too? Bought into her crying, etc


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> From what I provided there in his email, does it look like he did have the wool pulled over his eyes too? Bought into her crying, etc


Of course she lied to him. She minimized. He actually states that there is clearly more to the story than he has been told. At least by her: "Things had obviously happened that I was not aware of":

You cannot control what she says to him nor what he believes. I would simply reply to the priest with the facts which I assume you have. As the priest appears to have stopped replying to your updates it is rather pointless to write to him. Like I said before, she is not getting excommunicated or shunned from that particular church for adultery. 

Since your relationship with this particular church and her continuing to worship and volunteer there bothers you so much just switch churches. Let everyone in the parish know why. 

As far as this: "she is on the phone and laughing and giggling"

That is her trying to get under your skin, trying to provoke a reaction. Rather childish really as well as cruel. An adult who cares about you would not be rubbing your face in all this. She does not care which she has abundantly made clear to you for years. So how should you react:

1) Ignore it. 
2) Fight silly fire with fire. Start dating and making plans in front of her. Verbal plans. Talk about sex. 
3) Turn up the radio. 

I would do all 3 simultaneously with complete indifference. If she howls laugh out loud.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Of course she lied to him. She minimized. He actually states that there is clearly more to the story than he has been told. At least by her: "Things had obviously happened that I was not aware of":
> 
> You cannot control what she says to him nor what he believes. I would simply reply to the priest with the facts which I assume you have. As the priest appears to have stopped replying to your updates it is rather pointless to write to him. Like I said before, she is not getting excommunicated or shunned from that particular church for adultery.
> 
> Since your relationship with this particular church and her continuing to worship and volunteer there bothers you so much just switch churches. Let everyone in the parish know why.
> 
> As far as this: "she is on the phone and laughing and giggling"
> 
> That is her trying to get under your skin, trying to provoke a reaction. Rather childish really as well as cruel. An adult who cares about you would not be rubbing your face in all this. She does not care which she has abundantly made clear to you for years. So how should you react:
> *
> 1) Ignore it.
> 2) Fight silly fire with fire. Start dating and making plans in front of her. Verbal plans. Talk about sex.
> 3) Turn up the radio.
> *
> I would do all 3 simultaneously with complete indifference. If she howls laugh out loud.


1. Done and will continue to do
2. Won't do but have done the same with my friends and my brother when I talk to them or I when I talk to the kids by myself and start laughing, she starts to give me the eye lol. The reason I won't do is I don't need another woman in my life to make me happy, that's what my kids, my sports and my hobbies are for and I want to show the kids at least for a good while, who's the priority in all of this through action.
3. :smile2:

The priest will be gone in a year or so, the biggest reason he's even still there is he wanted to see the new church building process seen through. We will be building a new church very soon after years of it being waaay overdue. 'She' was/is part of this planning committee a big part.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> 1. Done and will continue to do
> 2. Won't do but have done the same with my friends and my brother when I talk to them or I when I talk to the kids by myself and start laughing, she starts to give me the eye lol. The reason I won't do is I don't need another woman in my life to make me happy, that's what my kids, my sports and my hobbies are for and I want to show the kids at least for a good while, who's the priority in all of this through action.
> 3. :smile2:
> 
> The priest will be gone in a year or so, the biggest reason he's even still there is he wanted to see the new church building process seen through. We will be building a new church very soon after years of it being waaay overdue. 'She' was/is part of this planning committee a big part.


2) You can have a gal pal, nothing serious by mutual agreement and still have your children #1. After the crap your wife put you through some meaningless fun sex might do you some good. Maybe the kids would like to see Dad with a happy bounce in his step...

So what if the priest is around. Or not. Is you beef that he is not on your side?


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

If it was me I would tell Fr Tom nice knowing you. Sayonara Padre.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Now you need a gal pal. Want to throw her off her game? Do what Broken in Brooklyn recommended. Trust me on that one.
I had an ex-fiancé who came back into the picture when my FWW wife and I were separated. The thought of me with my ex really sent her into a tailspin. Made her see how I felt.

Now, why not simply tell her she needs to watch the children because you have a lady friend you are going to see. See how she reacts.


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> It's just stuff another parishioner would do. There's plenty of people in these groups and areas where she serves. I just honestly think she was able to pull the wool over his eyes by having him feeling sorry for her like she can do almost anyone. I think in a way she spun me as the bad guy, especially with his comment about me having her served. Thing is, this guy is one of the level headed humans I know but still think she must have 'gotten' to him. Here's an excerpt from an email to me that leads me to believe my message wasn't heard clearly.
> 
> 
> "I was taken aback when I met with ----- because she told me that you were going to serve papers on her for a divorce. I remember you telling me that you would do anything to save the marriage. Things had obviously happened that I was not aware of.
> 
> I believe that ----- was open and honest in meeting with me. I also believe that emotionally she is a wreck and very confused. My advice to her was to lie low for two weeks, do a lot of thinking and praying and then come back and see me. "
> 
> Thing is. She used those two weeks to catch up legally and think of questions to ask OM and how she could meet him secretly again. I updated Father on all of this but never got a response via email back.


SFFU - I am disappointed that the good pastor at the very least did not try to get you two into Retrouvaille.


----------



## Archangel2

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> If it was me I would tell Fr Tom nice knowing you. Sayonara Padre.


SFFU - Food for thought

Here is a little story that should give you some insight into how much havoc you can visit on Father Tom.

There is a parish in the Archdiocese of Washington DC which employed an openly gay Cantor. Apparently, someone complained to the good Cardinal that this Cantor did something that was clearly against Church policy, and he was summarily fired (no one was talking, but there was speculation he married his long time partner). If your wife is actively committing adultery, then I see no reason that your case is not dissimilar to what happened in the Archdiocese.

.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

You may have solid grounds for an annulment, also. Definitely look into that and you may want to start the process now as it takes time. It took my cousin who was f'd over by his ex almost two years to get his. His wife screwed him over while he was deployed, too.


----------



## colingrant

stillfightingforus said:


> "wishing" or "nice-ing" the WS back - I totally agree with this now. I am cordial since we have to live together for the next 5 or so months still and we have the kids at home but other than that, I probably on average say 7-10 words to her a day, which involve who's picking up the kids being the only real conversation we have each day, around 4PM.
> 
> Your wife is so far gone she's not even ashamed or embarrassed with her scandalous behaviors - dead on. She has always said that the affair had nothing to do with our problems in marriage, she blame shifted everything onto me but her contradictions were so bad. From I am too accommodating to I didn't show love to why didn't I do this before to it wouldn't have mattered.
> 
> She's resigned to her actions as being fate - again dead on, she believes she will be much happier moving on and that it's the best for her and for the kids because she will be happier and healthier. She told the other man straight up that they were meant to be, soulmates and a million other things to that point.
> 
> 
> I have been 180'ing pretty well for about a month now. Even when she tries to engage in conversation I deflect, give short answers and either act disinterested until she leaves the room or I leave the room. The latest conversation about her wanting to be friends after this took the cake. I still have a lot of things that bring back good memories and those hurt but to be honest, I can't even look her in the face anymore without feeling disdain for what she had done for almost a year and what she continues to do. I have no proof or really even care to find out what she is doing now but she either took a break with the married man, her soulmate until things cool down or she has 100% moved on to the next guy who was there secret messenger and now maybe more than a friend, as the rebound guy. I don't even look at her Pinterest account any more, just a sad case of someone trying to convince themself what they did and are doing is totally right and how good of a person she is. I'll never forget the pin, forget the exact words but it's about her having a heart of gold and a great soul, etc, etc. Like you said, so far gone that even the little logic she had months ago is now gone.



Nice job! Whatever happens, you want to come out of this with your dignity. You don't want to lose her AND that. BS betray because they are selfishly thinking only about themselves and in doing so will strip your soul, dignity and self worth IF YOU LET THEM. Doing nothing is letting them. It may be out of your personality and comfort zone, to act a-holish, but self protection is required for your survival and no one can protect you like yourself. BS are often in the position they're in because of vulnerabilities they haven't learned to cope with, lack of integrity and self discipline. During the period of infatuation and fantasy, *it's up to the BS* to control matters and make decisions WS can't or won't make for themselves. 

Having the BS served with divorce papers forces them to the table to make a decision within a specified time period, otherwise they will go on indefinitely for as long as they are receiving the personal gratification they're receiving, which could be years, while the BS and his/her family waits for the WS to come around. If a WS knows the BS isn't going anywhere and can get away with it, they will just proceed indefinitely and the BS in some cases are not only betrayed, but is an enabler also. It's the best of both worlds. Lover on one side and husband or wife on the other. The BS can protest and threaten to leave, but unless acted upon the WS knows it's only words and the threats become hollow. Getting them served removes all of that. 

If the BS doesn't return to them after being served, then the marriage foundation may not have the strength it once had or the deepness of her fantasy is to great for her to overcome within a timely manner that's healthy for you and your family. You have zero control over her, just you and your family, whose protection by the way hinges solely on decisions you make, not hers. Her decision making track record as of late isn't stable or healthy enough for your kids to be exposed to it. Sometimes to save the marriage you have to be willing to lose it. Only then does the rubber meets the road. Your wife's indiscretions can exact permanent negative influences on you and the kids, and only you can control circumstances that limits to what degree those negative influences will take affect. Another way to put it is, if your daughter was married to an abusive husband who womanized and left your grandchildren with an unstable house where they see there mom crying and saddened by her husband's behaviors, you would plead with your daughter to remove herself from the situation to stop further emotional harm to your grand-kids. Allow yourself to be guided by and out of body view of yourself and how you would advise a loved one.

I read a post from one WS who was actually "turned on" by the strength and decisiveness that her BS showed. He was an affable, laid back guy who she thought would be passive in his response if and once he discovered her infidelity, but his resolve and (I'm not taking this shxx) attitude backed by strategic decisive action, she said she surprisingly got turned on as she saw him take control, which was something she hadn't seen before. Her disposition changed from being ambivalent to his reaction to "oh shxx, I better get my shxx it together or he'll be out of my life in an instant. She went from a WW to a FWW then becoming a very remorseful wife in a matter of days, or perhaps hours. 

Lastly, another analogy. I've been struggling financially recently and kept getting breaks from my mortgage company. I avoided there calls and kept putting them off paying later and later, until I received a foreclosure notice. This of course is equivalent to getting served divorce papers. The mortgage company put there foot down and it immediately got my attention because I realized what I was about to lose. Guess what? I immediately called them, prioritized them and began establish a plan of communication and payments that satisfied them. Sometimes you have to do what you don't want to do, but have to get the results you need/want.


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## SentHereForAReason

colingrant said:


> Nice job! Whatever happens, you want to come out of this with your dignity. You don't want to lose her AND that. BS betray because they are selfishly thinking only about themselves and in doing so will strip your soul, dignity and self worth IF YOU LET THEM. Doing nothing is letting them. It may be out of your personality and comfort zone, to act a-holish, but self protection is required for your survival and no one can protect you like yourself. BS are often in the position they're in because of vulnerabilities they haven't learned to cope with, lack of integrity and self discipline. During the period of infatuation and fantasy, *it's up to the BS* to control matters and make decisions WS can't or won't make for themselves.
> 
> Having the BS served with divorce papers forces them to the table to make a decision within a specified time period, otherwise they will go on indefinitely for as long as they are receiving the personal gratification they're receiving, which could be years, while the BS and his/her family waits for the WS to come around. If a WS knows the BS isn't going anywhere and can get away with it, they will just proceed indefinitely and the BS in some cases are not only betrayed, but is an enabler also. It's the best of both worlds. Lover on one side and husband or wife on the other. The BS can protest and threaten to leave, but unless acted upon the WS knows it's only words and the threats become hollow. Getting them served removes all of that.
> 
> If the BS doesn't return to them after being served, then the marriage foundation may not have the strength it once had or the deepness of her fantasy is to great for her to overcome within a timely manner that's healthy for you and your family. You have zero control over her, just you and your family, whose protection by the way hinges solely on decisions you make, not hers. Her decision making track record as of late isn't stable or healthy enough for your kids to be exposed to it. Sometimes to save the marriage you have to be willing to lose it. Only then does the rubber meets the road. Your wife's indiscretions can exact permanent negative influences on you and the kids, and only you can control circumstances that limits to what degree those negative influences will take affect. Another way to put it is, if your daughter was married to an abusive husband who womanized and left your grandchildren with an unstable house where they see there mom crying and saddened by her husband's behaviors, you would plead with your daughter to remove herself from the situation to stop further emotional harm to your grand-kids. Allow yourself to be guided by and out of body view of yourself and how you would advise a loved one.


Thank you for the perspective here, good stuff! For my wife or soon to be Ex, she is long gone. The strength of the foundation is gone and the deepness of her fantasy was the deepest imaginable with planning a life together forever, looking at homes together for months, etc. She is pretty much happy with the decision to divorce and cannot wait for it to be over as far as I can tell, as she moves full speed ahead with filling out paperwork, getting accounts in order, etc, etc. I'm working with a relative that is going through the same thing, he's a few months behind me so I'm trying to get him there quicker than I got 'there' to eliminate some of the pain and unneeded heartache. The biggest kick the plums for both of us is that both of our spouses are handling this like a business transaction, no emotion, just moving steadily along. I am as well but 17 years of planning, living, growing and being there for each other out the window in a year and she cannot get to the finish line fast enough. Again, I want this to be over as soon as possible for everyone involved but I never wanted this but the biggest realization I had was understanding I could NOT want it all i want but I had no control over the decisions that doomed us over the past year. She can say, she tried to tell me what was wrong and we grew apart and we aren't compatible, etc, etc but it's hard to rationalize that and measure against when the year before she was saying how she's looking forward to the next 100 years together and loves me more than anything, telling family friends I was there to keep her grounded and keep her sane. I really don't know what to believe but I do believe what has come from her month over the past year is not as truthful as what she told me over the 17 before that. At least I'll tell myself that, not to hold onto what could of been but to know that at least for a majority of our lives together .... it was real!


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## colingrant

I'm happy for you as the pain and hurt has subsided in you and I'm reading a certain peace and acceptance. It's okay to be saddened and in grief, but also be determined, which allows you to move forward with a purpose. In time, she will see she was wrong in blame shifting and not taking ownership. BS have trouble taking ownership as they subconsciously know they have done something that is shameful and abhorring. By not taking ownership, they're seeking to preserve the little piece of thread of dignity that they actually NEVER had in the first place. It's just self preservation. People change, but it's not always for the better, even as they grow older. Your wife changed, not for the better. Has NOTHING to do with you, just so you know that.


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## MJJEAN

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> You may have solid grounds for an annulment, also. Definitely look into that and you may want to start the process now as it takes time. It took my cousin who was f'd over by his ex almost two years to get his. His wife screwed him over while he was deployed, too.


In most countries, including the US, the Church will not begin the Decree of Nullity process unless the civil divorce is final. The divorce being finalized is necessary as proof the marriage has broken down beyond repair and that, for religious purposes, the marriage may never have been valid in the first place. So, @stillfightingforus cannot apply until the civil divorce is complete.

Thankfully, Pope Francis overhauled the Annulment process. It used to be the Petitioner would apply and the paperwork would be submitted to the local Tribunal. This would include all evidence...Witness testimony, psychological/counseling reports, police reports, etc. etc. There would be fees involved. Once the Petition was accepted, the case would be assigned to a Procurator/Advocate (who argues before the Tribunal that the marriage was invalid based on the Grounds put forth in the Petition), a Defender of the Bond (who argues the marriage is valid and indissoluble) and a Judge, who weighs the evidence presented along with the arguments of the Defender and the Procurator, and makes a determination.

Once the first Tribunal made a ruling, a separate Tribunal would take the case, review it, and make a determination the same way the first Tribunal did. If both agreed the marriage was valid, then the marriage is valid religiously. If both agreed the marriage was invalid, then both spouses are considered never married as their "attempt at marriage" wasn't valid and would be free to live life as single people, marry in the Church, etc.

Of course, appeals to the Roman Rota can and do occur, but are relatively rare.

The whole process took anywhere from 1.5-6 years depending on where you live.

Once Pope Francis took over, he removed the fees, set guidelines to make the process faster, and removed the requirement for the 2nd Tribunal review. Now, it's so much faster! Usually, the whole process can be completed within a year.

I started my Annulment under Pope Benedict, just before Pope Frances came on scene. My Annulment took 22 months from start to finish. It was a very invasive process. 19 typewritten pages of questions and answers. Everything from family of origin to our marital sex life, to birth control use, to details of the affair(s) and on and on. I needed 5 Witnesses who knew both of us before and during the marriage who would be willing to submit their own written testimony and be interviewed by telephone, Skype, or in person. It was totally worth it, though, in the end.

Edit: I highly encourage @stillfightingforus to apply for the Annulment as soon as the divorce is final. It's not unusual for folks to wait, sometimes years, and then find that the people who would be great Witnesses have passed away or aren't easily located. Witness testimony is crucial to the process, so do it while you're still in contact with friends and family who have knowledge related to whatever grounds you'll be using.


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## Nucking Futs

stillfightingforus said:


> Thank you for the perspective here, good stuff! For my wife or soon to be Ex, she is long gone. The strength of the foundation is gone and the deepness of her fantasy was the deepest imaginable with planning a life together forever, looking at homes together for months, etc. She is pretty much happy with the decision to divorce and cannot wait for it to be over as far as I can tell, as she moves full speed ahead with filling out paperwork, getting accounts in order, etc, etc. I'm working with a relative that is going through the same thing, he's a few months behind me so I'm trying to get him there quicker than I got 'there' to eliminate some of the pain and unneeded heartache. The biggest kick the plums for both of us is that both of our spouses are handling this like a business transaction, no emotion, just moving steadily along. I am as well but 17 years of planning, living, growing and being there for each other out the window in a year and she cannot get to the finish line fast enough. Again, I want this to be over as soon as possible for everyone involved but I never wanted this but the biggest realization I had was understanding I could NOT want it all i want but I had no control over the decisions that doomed us over the past year. She can say, she tried to tell me what was wrong and we grew apart and we aren't compatible, etc, etc but it's hard to rationalize that and measure against when the year before she was saying how she's looking forward to the next 100 years together and loves me more than anything, telling family friends I was there to keep her grounded and keep her sane. * I really don't know what to believe but I do believe what has come from her month over the past year is not as truthful as what she told me over the 17 before that. * At least I'll tell myself that, not to hold onto what could of been but to know that at least for a majority of our lives together .... it was real!


You need to stop lying to yourself. This whole living in a fantasy world thing you've been doing is weak, and weakness is not attractive. If she's coldly and with calculation dismantling your life together you're seeing the real her, not the front she was putting up.


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## SentHereForAReason

Nucking Futs said:


> You need to stop lying to yourself. This whole living in a fantasy world thing you've been doing is weak, and weakness is not attractive. If she's coldly and with calculation dismantling your life together you're seeing the real her, not the front she was putting up.


I can see what you are saying but it honestly doesn't affect how I'm going about things, there's been no wavering and she's angry with me because of the 180. Nothing that brings her back by any means but just that she cannot control me and talk to me as a 'friend' when she wants. 

I guess what I'm saying, is that I'm not setting myself up for failure in the future with what i have learned and the steps I have been taking but it would be nice to know that the last 2 decades of my life were legit, at least 50% of the time. And in reality, they were .... with 2 great kids out of the deal


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Thank you for the perspective here, good stuff! For my wife or soon to be Ex, she is long gone. The strength of the foundation is gone and the deepness of her fantasy was the deepest imaginable with planning a life together forever, looking at homes together for months, etc. She is pretty much happy with the decision to divorce and cannot wait for it to be over as far as I can tell, as she moves full speed ahead with filling out paperwork, getting accounts in order, etc, etc. I'm working with a relative that is going through the same thing, he's a few months behind me so I'm trying to get him there quicker than I got 'there' to eliminate some of the pain and unneeded heartache. The biggest kick the plums for both of us is that both of our spouses are handling this like a business transaction, no emotion, just moving steadily along. I am as well but 17 years of planning, living, growing and being there for each other out the window in a year and she cannot get to the finish line fast enough. Again, I want this to be over as soon as possible for everyone involved but I never wanted this but the biggest realization I had was understanding I could NOT want it all i want but I had no control over the decisions that doomed us over the past year. *She can say, she tried to tell me what was wrong and we grew apart and we aren't compatible, etc, etc but it's hard to rationalize that and measure against when the year before she was saying how she's looking forward to the next 100 years together and loves me more than anything, telling family friends I was there to keep her grounded and keep her sane. I really don't know what to believe but I do believe what has come from her month over the past year is not as truthful as what she told me over the 17 before that. At least I'll tell myself that, not to hold onto what could of been but to know that at least for a majority of our lives together .... it was real!*


Wrap you head around this. Compare her words with her actions. All the time (almost a decade ) she whispered sweet words to you she was actively engaged in an affair with a married man. 

What does that tell you? 

Tells me she is a liar, She lied to you, she lied to the children by lying to you. Now she is lying to anyone who cares to listen. Are you really surprised she is a bald faced liar? 

Make sure your family and friends know know the truth. That truth is simple. She is a women who slept with a married man behind her husbands back and lied about it as long as she could and never confessed until you collected undeniable evidence and finally filed for divorce. She strung you along as long as she could get away with it. A user. A manipulator. Period. 

She wasted years of your life as a wife in that what she said was not what she did. Trying to collect percentages of what is real and what were lies is really pointless. One thing is for certain, She is a 100% liar and a cheater.


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## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Wrap you head around this. Compare her words with her actions. All the time (almost a decade ) she whispered sweet words to you she was actively engaged in an affair with a married man.
> 
> What does that tell you?
> 
> Tells me she is a liar, She lied to you, she lied to the children by lying to you. Now she is lying to anyone who cares to listen. Are you really surprised she is a bald faced liar?
> 
> Make sure your family and friends know know the truth. That truth is simple. She is a women who slept with a married man behind her husbands back and lied about it as long as she could and never confessed until you collected undeniable evidence and finally filed for divorce. She strung you along as long as she could get away with it. A user. A manipulator. Period.
> 
> She wasted years of your life as a wife in that what she said was not what she did. Trying to collect percentages of what is real and what were lies is really pointless. One thing is for certain, She is a 100% liar and a cheater.


Probably the person she has lied to most ... is herself. Hard to believe that any person could do and act the way she is but make herself believe this is what is right and minimize the affair down to not even a supporting cast member in the movie but an 'extra' on the set. But you are right, she is still lying to those that care to listen, to enable and to validate. My kids deserve better than this! Someone that not only is there for the kids obviously, which she is trying to do now ... but someone who values the concept of family, honesty and integrity above self wants and with the rational to realize that.


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## Suspicious1

I gotta say one of the most hurful and disturbing things l heard out my ex a few most of getting her back broken by some street scum, "we can work things out" l was in tears, my friends would ask me do you want to go back with her? You do have kids, if you want to work it out we understand! I told them no in various occation. 
They did not understand why I was flubbering about, what they didn't know, and I could not truely express was that I knew in my heart that l lacked zero desire to R, but was mourning the death of our family dynamics. 
I despised her, treated her like something l stepped on at a dog run.
There are somethings I'm a shame of at the present but she killed an enormous amount of quality time and memories bewteen my kids and I that can never be duplicated.
Things got bad once she realized l wasnt coming back, l had to get court order protection to keep her at bay, along with serious threating call both to where I live, and at my place of work I was finally releaf when she found another schumk to take on a ride. 

Hang in there and I really hope she stays grounded and decides not to run on full cylinders.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## colingrant

Concerning the "friends" part. You can be friendly, but not friends. I always thought the best disposition is complete indifference. No attention, no special treatment, no favors, no self-sacrificing, (she's used this from you and more). I always thought completely ignoring someone indicates they're still in your head. Even if she is, I'd try to refrain from giving her the satisfaction of still caring if at all possible. I'd rather her see you as indifferent, ambivalent and eventually happy, none of which (happiness) is directed at, with or for her. It's time you reward yourself with a dash of confidence and air that says, I'm over you. Think about dating if you're ready. BTW......You're a super nice guy and there's nothing wrong with that so don't change as your character strengths should allow you to be successful in finding your next relationship. I have two recommendations however. One, you can be nice, up until people aren't being nice with you. When this happens, take the gloves off asap and don't look back. 

Second, it'll be tempting to relationship rebound to restore some confidence, but I'd just date around for a 6 months to a year or so slowly for your sake and hers. Rebound relationships are often conceding or compromising ones. Ever go to an all night McDonald's at 3:00am when you haven't eaten in 7 hours? Nothing tastes bad. Burgers and fries made an hour ago, all of a sudden taste "not bad". It's because you're hungry. Same thing with dating. You're going to be female hungry soon, so don't date "down" just to satiate your romantic desires unless it's a straight hookup. Easy does it!


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## Chuck71

stillfightingforus said:


> Probably the person she has lied to most ... is herself. Hard to believe that any person could do and act the way she is but make herself believe this is what is right and minimize the affair down to not even a supporting cast member in the movie but an 'extra' on the set. But you are right, she is still lying to those that care to listen, to enable and to validate. My kids deserve better than this! Someone that not only is there for the kids obviously, which she is trying to do now ... but someone who values the concept of family, honesty and integrity above self wants and with the rational to realize that.


Really glad you are beginning to see reality..... It's a slow process and... you'll get there....


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## SentHereForAReason

Finally got word on dates from the court yesterday ... man is this going to be a long process. Friend of the Court stuff comes up fairly quick next month but the pro-con hearing isn't scheduled until June 26th!

I'm doing my best at work and with the kids and trying to live life but definitely slanting it towards spending as much time as possible as i can with the kids. She is living life as if nothing is different because she feels that no matter what the custody is going to be 50/50. She seems to be falling back into some habits that she gave up over the last month as well. Constant texting at home, etc, etc. She's going to a hockey game tonight about 2 hours away. Last time she did that she didn't come home til 2:30AM. Will be interesting to see since she's been trying to be 'mom of the year' what time she comes home tonight. 

It's times like this where it takes every ounce of my strength and dignity to continue to stay on the right path .... seeing someone enjoy life like they did nothing wrong and escaping almost any consequence and even the people that know what she did, talking to her like everything's ok and normal. Like I said in a previous post, I thought I had lined up everything perfectly to snap her out of it with friends and family but they just didn't have the endurance and went back to normal after a few months. I know cheaters do win sometimes, actually probably a lot but I'm convinced that in the long run, they won't.

My whole life, even when I couldn't see the light, I kept going, I kept doing what I was doing to achieve goals, results, the promised land. I just need to keep doing that because i know it will be ok. I look at this like a movie, where it's good vs. evil. After the character introductions and success in the beginning, the middle ... all the way til the end, is filled with adversity and looking like all hope was lost and the good guy wasn't going to make it or save what he needed to ..... but he/she never gave up ..... and in the end is when the hard work and perseverance pays off. I don't SEE the light now ... but I KNOW it will be there waiting for me in time, waiting for all three of us.


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## turnera

Are you writing her activities (or lack thereof) into a bound notebook? Some judges will look at this, especially if it shows a pattern of bad parenting.


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## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> Finally got word on dates from the court yesterday ... man is this going to be a long process. Friend of the Court stuff comes up fairly quick next month but the pro-con hearing isn't scheduled until
> June 26th...
> 
> ...It's times like this where it takes every ounce of my strength and dignity to continue to stay on the right path .... seeing someone enjoy life like they did nothing wrong and escaping almost any consequence and even the people that know what she did, talking to her like everything's ok and normal. Like I said in a previous post, I thought I had lined up everything perfectly to snap her out of it with friends and family but they just didn't have the endurance and went back to normal after a few months. I know cheaters do win sometimes, actually probably a lot but I'm convinced that in the long run, they won't...


May I make a suggestion? Start the annulment process. This is similar to trying her in the court of public opinion (in this case, the Catholic community of your parish). It's time to knock Father Tom off his complacent/enabling butt.If nothing else, you'll feel better that you're doing something and not waiting for the glacial judicial system to act.


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## SentHereForAReason

Gotta admit dudes, this week has been a downer. Focus hasn't changed, path hasn't changed but just seems like one of those weeks that I was due for. Maybe just worn out and when I get down, I start looking for answers to solve and get back on track. In this situation, it could obviously be a millions things but it all points back to her being able to do whatever she wants without a 2nd thought, without remorse and like nothing's wrong.

She beat her 'last time out on the town after a hockey game' on Tuesday. Instead of getting home at 2:30AM (In December), this time it was 3:45AM lol. 

The next day she tries talking to me yet again about working on splitting assets, etc, without the lawyers being involved so we can save money. She starts going into a few talks about if she does anything to offend me or says something wrong to please let her know. That I can go out and do things do by myself and she won't look any differently on me as my role as the Father. (Gee Thanks) Then she asks if I feel the same about when she goes out and does things without the kids. I really don't answer and just start to drift into doing something else and she busts out do you think I'm a bad mother?

Next morning she talks to me again as I'm walking out the door. She got an invoice from the Lawyer about some basic work they had done and it cost $600. She is like, see how much this costs, we need to work on things together so we aren't charged for stuff like this. I say nothing and just look at her. She then busts out, are you really ok with paying $600 for stuff like this, I then said, have a good one and walked straight out the door and headed to work. In my head, I'm thinking are you f'n kidding me, of course I'm not ok with this, we shouldn't be spending a damn dime because we should still be married and not having to deal with the consequences of what you caused! But, I just kept my cool and played it off. 

I think it stings so much now because the Good Guys essentially have to play by the rules and she doesn't have any and thinks nothing is wrong with her actions.

My WILL has never let me down before but in the struggle, there's always down days, weeks, etc.


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## MJJEAN

Archangel2 said:


> May I make a suggestion? Start the annulment process. This is similar to trying her in the court of public opinion (in this case, the Catholic community of your parish). It's time to knock Father Tom off his complacent/enabling butt.If nothing else, you'll feel better that you're doing something and not waiting for the glacial judicial system to act.


I think you misunderstand the Annulment process. It's all completely confidential. The Tribunal that will make a determination on the validity of the marriage is staffed by employees and skilled trained volunteers from the area the Tribunal serves, which is usually multiple parishes. In other words, the chances of the Tribunal knowing OP and his STBXWife are very small and even if a member of the Tribunal does know them, they are forbidden to speak a word about the case.

There is no guilty or innocent judgement rendered. There will be no party listed "at fault". The only purpose of the Annulment process is to determine if the marriage was valid or invalid based on the grounds and evidence submitted with the petition. That's all. Nothing more or less.

So, no court of public opinion.

Also, as I posted earlier in the thread, the divorce has to be final before OP can apply for a Decree of Nullity.

@stillfightingforus, I think your refusal to engage is good. She's clearly worried about being seen as a bad mother and doesn't want lawyers involved because she is hoping to sucker you into a better settlement for her.


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## Lostinthought61

stillfightingforus said:


> Gotta admit dudes, this week has been a downer. Focus hasn't changed, path hasn't changed but just seems like one of those weeks that I was due for. Maybe just worn out and when I get down, I start looking for answers to solve and get back on track. In this situation, it could obviously be a millions things but it all points back to her being able to do whatever she wants without a 2nd thought, without remorse and like nothing's wrong.
> 
> She beat her 'last time out on the town after a hockey game' on Tuesday. Instead of getting home at 2:30AM (In December), this time it was 3:45AM lol.
> 
> The next day she tries talking to me yet again about working on splitting assets, etc, without the lawyers being involved so we can save money. She starts going into a few talks about if she does anything to offend me or says something wrong to please let her know. That I can go out and do things do by myself and she won't look any differently on me as my role as the Father. (Gee Thanks) Then she asks if I feel the same about when she goes out and does things without the kids. I really don't answer and just start to drift into doing something else and she busts out do you think I'm a bad mother?
> 
> Next morning she talks to me again as I'm walking out the door. She got an invoice from the Lawyer about some basic work they had done and it cost $600. She is like, see how much this costs, we need to work on things together so we aren't charged for stuff like this. I say nothing and just look at her. She then busts out, are you really ok with paying $600 for stuff like this, I then said, have a good one and walked straight out the door and headed to work. In my head, I'm thinking are you f'n kidding me, of course I'm not ok with this, we shouldn't be spending a damn dime because we should still be married and not having to deal with the consequences of what you caused! But, I just kept my cool and played it off.
> 
> I think it stings so much now because the Good Guys essentially have to play by the rules and she doesn't have any and thinks nothing is wrong with her actions.
> 
> My WILL has never let me down before but in the struggle, there's always down days, weeks, etc.


instead of having a look you should always have a pat answer...."no i am not okay but then again i am not the one who cheated"....and then go out the door. (drop mic)


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## Archangel2

MJJEAN said:


> I think you misunderstand the Annulment process. It's all completely confidential. The Tribunal that will make a determination on the validity of the marriage is staffed by employees and skilled trained volunteers from the area the Tribunal serves, which is usually multiple parishes. In other words, the chances of the Tribunal knowing OP and his STBXWife are very small and even if a member of the Tribunal does know them, they are forbidden to speak a word about the case.
> 
> There is no guilty or innocent judgement rendered. There will be no party listed "at fault". The only purpose of the Annulment process is to determine if the marriage was valid or invalid based on the grounds and evidence submitted with the petition. That's all. Nothing more or less.
> 
> So, no court of public opinion.
> 
> Also, as I posted earlier in the thread, the divorce has to be final before OP can apply for a Decree of Nullity...


I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole in my previous post. @MJJEAN is correct. There is no court of public opinion. The Tribunal and those who are involved on the Church's side must follow strict confidentiality. 

However, the person who is asking for the declaration of nullity – the petitioner – submits written testimony about the marriage and a list of persons who are familiar with the marriage. These people must be willing to answer questions about the spouses and the marriage. I would assume that SFFU will need to approach the people on his list in advance to make sure they are willing to provide evidence on his behalf. 

To the extent he is contacting people who are not aware of his impending divorce, is that not tantamount to exposure? Unfortunately, although they are expected to keep their answers confidential, people do talk. They might not disclose what they had written, but they'll probably leak out the fact that SFFU and his wife are getting an annulment. Also, good Father Tom will be dragged into this maelstrom because he is the point person in this process. He needs to get the forms to SFFU.


----------



## Chaparral

In what world is a lying cheating ***** a good mother?

“Sorry you feel that way “

“Tell it to your/my lawyer.”


“Don’t go away mad.”


----------



## VFW

I have a couple of thoughts here. Firstly, I would tell her directly; "listen we are not friends, buddies or pals. You are the mother of my children and I will treat you with respect for their sake not yours." Actually her behavior is very typical as a continuation of her selfish behavior. The affair was selfish behavior and a failure to admit responsibility is shifting blame to others or just fate. Well you didn't expect her to accept responsibility for her actions did you?

Secondly, I know you are mad and have every right to do so, but you got accept this is going to happen. Ultimately you two are going to have to agree on assets either with or without lawyers. They will be happy to charge you $300 an hour to do so. Where you two can agree and save money I think you should, because it is in YOUR best interest to do so. Overall you are doing quite well and should be commended. Start doing as many things as you can with the kids that do not involve her, this will make the transition time easier for them. Make sure you leave time in your week just for you as well.


----------



## Nucking Futs

VFW said:


> I have a couple of thoughts here. Firstly, I would tell her directly; "listen we are not friends, buddies or pals. You are the mother of my children and I will treat you with respect for their sake not yours." Actually her behavior is very typical as a continuation of her selfish behavior. The affair was selfish behavior and a failure to admit responsibility is shifting blame to others or just fate. Well you didn't expect her to accept responsibility for her actions did you?
> 
> Secondly, I know you are mad and have every right to do so, but you got accept this is going to happen. *Ultimately you two are going to have to agree on assets either with or without lawyers. They will be happy to charge you $300 an hour to do so. Where you two can agree and save money I think you should, because it is in YOUR best interest to do so. *Overall you are doing quite well and should be commended. Start doing as many things as you can with the kids that do not involve her, this will make the transition time easier for them. Make sure you leave time in your week just for you as well.


I agree. Sffu, get with your attorney and have him give you the figures for the best outcome you can hope for if you fight it out in court. Then get with your wife and negotiate with her, with the figures from your lawyer being your bottom line. Accept no less than that from her. Don't offer that to her, don't let her see the figures, just start higher and be willing to take less than your starting offer but not less than the lawyers figures. If you can't work something out from her _then_ you show her the numbers and tell her "this is what my lawyer said I'd end up with if we fight it out in court. I'll take no less, so either you agree or we spend a bunch of money on court and the judge will _make_ you agree." But try to get more first.

It should be needless to say that you don't at any time let her know that those numbers are the _best_ you could hope for in court, make her believe it's a certainty that you'll get at least that amount one way or another. Don't puss out and let her bluff you below those numbers, she can agree to the settlement in the courthouse just before the hearing so don't back down. And if it gets to the actual hearing, shake your lawyers hand and wish him luck.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Why are both of you still under the same roof? This cannot be good for your mental state. Why will she not leave? Have you asked her to move out? I will bet you your children already no something is afoot. Have you both sat down with your children? My concern for you is you seem so passive. She is running around on you, coming in at late hours, how utterly ****ing sad this is. 

Have you consulted an attorney about you moving out? Getting to a situation where you do not have to look at her will do wonders for you.


----------



## Archangel2

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Why are both of you still under the same roof? This cannot be good for your mental state. Why will she not leave? Have you asked her to move out? I will bet you your children already no something is afoot. Have you both sat down with your children? My concern for you is you seem so passive. She is running around on you, coming in at late hours, how utterly ****ing sad this is...


And you can start off by not going to the same mass with her anymore. The group hug during the sign of peace is a farce.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Going to be a rough one today ladies and gents. Today is her birthday and I'm the person that really gets into the spirit of giving. So I doubt the bday will have very little effect on her brain that it works now but for today it will be rough for me because I enjoyed these days, the days I used my creativity to think of good things to do and get for her. It will hurt me more than her I'm sure, probably not even close. Especially as the people that even know what she did, continue to talk to her like nothing's wrong and I'm sure will be giving her pleasant birthday wishes, along with her new group of best friends, the company that employs her AP and her new Best Friend that she texts daily. 

Will also be tough, having her family over when they are starting to come around to her as well. The grandparents that baby and have avoided and help her avoid consequences her whole life and her Sister who just doesn't like conflict and doesn't want to get involved and has now seemingly, from what I can tell, convinced her husband ... a staunch ally of mine over the last year to let bygones be bygones and communicate with my STBXW again. 

I'll suck it up, I'll take it and just be there for my kids (got them each a gift to give to their mother) and I'll continue to press on and wait for me day when karma comes back around and does me a solid


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> Going to be a rough one today ladies and gents. Today is her birthday and I'm the person that really gets into the spirit of giving. So I doubt the bday will have very little effect on her brain that it works now but for today it will be rough for me because I enjoyed these days, the days I used my creativity to think of good things to do and get for her. It will hurt me more than her I'm sure, probably not even close. Especially as the people that even know what she did, continue to talk to her like nothing's wrong and I'm sure will be giving her pleasant birthday wishes, along with her new group of best friends, the company that employs her AP and her new Best Friend that she texts daily.
> 
> Will also be tough, having her family over when they are starting to come around to her as well. The grandparents that baby and have avoided and help her avoid consequences her whole life and her Sister who just doesn't like conflict and doesn't want to get involved and has now seemingly, from what I can tell, convinced her husband ... a staunch ally of mine over the last year to let bygones be bygones and communicate with my STBXW again.
> 
> I'll suck it up, I'll take it and just be there for my kids (got them each a gift to give to their mother) and I'll continue to press on and wait for me day when karma comes back around and does me a solid


Dude this is pathetic. Your ex is an ******* and you are sad you can't tell her how much you "love" her? MOVE ON already. See her for the jerk she is. You can STILL have a good relationship with someone else! But honestly you won't if you are this much of a puppy dog. You are just going to attract the same kind of ******* who uses you. You will be back her 0-2 pining away and talking about how "nice" you were to her and why doesn't she love you. You have been here for a year, and been throwing yourself at this totally ungrateful wife the whole time. She has been garbage the whole time. Enough already. 

Here is the deal, women especially attractive women will always have 100x more opportunity to cheat. So a women who has no loyalty or who is only loyal if you provide every need of hers whatever may be at a given moment, is completely worthless when it comes to a committed relationship. That is who you married. Stop idealizing her accept that you married poorly, let her be someone else's problem and move the **** on. 

Crying that you can't wish her happy birthday when she cheated on you and your kids for years is not moving on, it's just typical codependency.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

sokillme said:


> Dude this is pathetic. Your ex is an ******* and you are sad you can't tell her how much you "love" her? MOVE ON already. See her for the jerk she is. You can STILL have a good relationship with someone else! But honestly you won't if you are this much of a puppy dog. You are just going to attract the same kind of ******* who uses you. You will be back her 0-2 pining away and talking about how "nice" you were to her and why doesn't she love you. You have been here for a year, and been throwing yourself at this totally ungrateful wife the whole time. She has been garbage the whole time. Enough already.
> 
> Here is the deal, women especially attractive women will always have 100x more opportunity to cheat. So a women who has no loyalty or who is only loyal if you provide every need of hers whatever may be at a given moment, is completely worthless when it comes to a committed relationship. That is who you married. Stop idealizing her accept that you married poorly, let her be someone else's problem and move the **** on.
> 
> Crying that you can't wish her happy birthday when she cheated on you and your kids for years is not moving on, it's just typical codependency.


I know what you are saying here but I disagree because the basis of my post is not about missing the chance at telling her I love her but more about anger her being responsible for taking away something I enjoyed AND upset over those that fall for her manipulation and continue to allow her to do as she pleases. I have been 180'ing for almost two months now and on average haven't said more than 10 words to her per day at that time. In the morning I make sure we agree on who's picking up the kids and at night I let her know that I am done reading to the kids and they are waiting for her to say good night. There's nothing in between, unless it involves depositing money or an event coming up for the kids. 

I put this in a post before. I can barely stand to even look at her face and 99% of the time I don't even look at her, especially make it a point not to look at her after she gets all dolled up in the morning and when I do look at her, I feel the anger at what she caused. I have moved on but I haven't moved on from things that spur memories of what should have been but knowing who's responsible for ruining that helps me.

Does that make sense? I'm not mean to her but I'm not nice either, just indifferent. I may have 'puppy dog moments' inside me that cause a bit of grief but it's nothing that is shown externally. The only thing she sees is someone with complete indifference towards her and someone that is not afraid to laugh and show my happiness with the kids, if she actually spends the time to look up from her phone to notice. She has been trying to establish a new route lately by doing as much as she can with the kids but still, the phone takes priority after 5:30PM.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Going to be a rough one today ladies and gents. Today is her birthday and I'm the person that really gets into the spirit of giving. So I doubt the bday will have very little effect on her brain that it works now but for today it will be rough for me because I enjoyed these days, the days I used my creativity to think of good things to do and get for her. It will hurt me more than her I'm sure, probably not even close. Especially as the people that even know what she did, continue to talk to her like nothing's wrong and I'm sure will be giving her pleasant birthday wishes, along with her new group of best friends, the company that employs her AP and her new Best Friend that she texts daily.
> 
> Will also be tough, having her family over when they are starting to come around to her as well. The grandparents that baby and have avoided and help her avoid consequences her whole life and her Sister who just doesn't like conflict and doesn't want to get involved and has now seemingly, from what I can tell, convinced her husband ... a staunch ally of mine over the last year to let bygones be bygones and communicate with my STBXW again.
> 
> I'll suck it up, I'll take it and just be there for my kids (got them each a gift to give to their mother) and I'll continue to press on and wait for me day when karma comes back around and does me a solid


Dude.


----------



## Nucking Futs

stillfightingforus said:


> Going to be a rough one today ladies and gents. Today is her birthday and I'm the person that really gets into the spirit of giving. So I doubt the bday will have very little effect on her brain that it works now but for today it will be rough for me because I enjoyed these days, the days I used my creativity to think of good things to do and get for her. It will hurt me more than her I'm sure, probably not even close. Especially as the people that even know what she did, continue to talk to her like nothing's wrong and I'm sure will be giving her pleasant birthday wishes, along with her new group of best friends, the company that employs her AP and her new Best Friend that she texts daily.
> 
> Will also be tough, having her family over when they are starting to come around to her as well. The grandparents that baby and have avoided and help her avoid consequences her whole life and her Sister who just doesn't like conflict and doesn't want to get involved and has now seemingly, from what I can tell, convinced her husband ... a staunch ally of mine over the last year to let bygones be bygones and communicate with my STBXW again.
> 
> I'll suck it up, I'll take it and just be there for *my kids (got them each a gift to give to their mother)* and I'll continue to press on and wait for me day when karma comes back around and does me a solid


Did your kids come to you and ask you to do this?


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> I know what you are saying here but I disagree because the basis of my post is not about missing the chance at telling her I love her but more about anger her being responsible for taking away something I enjoyed AND upset over those that fall for her manipulation and continue to allow her to do as she pleases. I have been 180'ing for almost two months now and on average haven't said more than 10 words to her per day at that time. In the morning I make sure we agree on who's picking up the kids and at night I let her know that I am done reading to the kids and they are waiting for her to say good night. There's nothing in between, unless it involves depositing money or an event coming up for the kids.
> 
> I put this in a post before. I can barely stand to even look at her face and 99% of the time I don't even look at her, especially make it a point not to look at her after she gets all dolled up in the morning and when I do look at her, I feel the anger at what she caused. I have moved on but I haven't moved on from things that spur memories of what should have been but knowing who's responsible for ruining that helps me.
> 
> Does that make sense? I'm not mean to her but I'm not nice either, just indifferent. I may have 'puppy dog moments' inside me that cause a bit of grief but it's nothing that is shown externally. The only thing she sees is someone with complete indifference towards her and someone that is not afraid to laugh and show my happiness with the kids, if she actually spends the time to look up from her phone to notice. She has been trying to establish a new route lately by doing as much as she can with the kids but still, the phone takes priority after 5:30PM.


How many times to you mention HER in your post here. Way too many when you goal should be to detach and move on. You are divorcing her your life and your mental well being should not still revolve around her. She is garbage and there is never going to be a way to make that any different. If anything you should be mad at yourself that you have allowed someone who treats you so bad to be a constant source of rumination. You lost nothing of value except time, and you are still losing more every time you allow yourself to go down the rabbit hole, so accept it and MOVE ON! Things end, people are ****ty, but life goes on. There is a whole big bright world out there with hundreds of thousands of good women. But you have some work to do on yourself and your codependency if you are going to get this dream relationship that you really want. Focus on that.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Nucking Futs said:


> Did your kids come to you and ask you to do this?


Yes


----------



## SentHereForAReason

sokillme said:


> How many times to you mention HER in your post here. Way too many when you goal should be to detach and move on. You are divorcing her your life and your mental well being should not still revolve around her. She is garbage and there is never going to be a way to make that any different. If anything you should be mad at yourself that you have allowed someone who treats you so bad to be a constant source of rumination. You lost nothing of value except time, and you are still losing more every time you allow yourself to go down the rabbit hole, so accept it and MOVE ON! Things end, people are ****ty, but life goes on. There is a whole big bright world out there with hundreds of thousands of good women. But you have some work to do on yourself and your codependency if you are going to get this dream relationship that you really want. Focus on that.


Putting it in these terms helps, thank you!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

And just wanted to let you guys know, not sure if this is normal or not but every now and then I post, mainly because I need some sense slapped into me and it helps me push on and get through this. You can still think, what the Hell is this idiot thinking but regardless, you guys are helping me out tremendously.


----------



## Malaise

*I have been 180'ing for almost two months now *

I know you'll say it's for the kids but you're not 180'ing if you give her gifts by proxy.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Malaise said:


> *I have been 180'ing for almost two months now *
> 
> I know you'll say it's for the kids but you're not 180'ing if you give her gifts by proxy.


Yep. Your kids are teens, right? Time to have a talk with them and explain that you are no longer the person that will be helping them with gifts for your ex.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Nucking Futs said:


> Yep. Your kids are teens, right? Time to have a talk with them and explain that you are no longer the person that will be helping them with gifts for your ex.


Just turned 7 and and 10


----------



## Satya

stillfightingforus said:


> Just turned 7 and and 10


What you can do is help them shop. Or pick something out online. But the gifts come from them, not you in any sense.

My husband gets "bday gifts" from his "kids" which is really his ex wife picking something and writing a card out to him "from the kids."

His kids are all adults. It's pathetic and sad. 

Don't let it come to that.


----------



## Nucking Futs

stillfightingforus said:


> Just turned 7 and and 10


Okay, that's a little young. I don't think I can criticize what you've done as far as the kids are concerned. It's not helping _you_ at all though.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Time for a more serious request for help. The people that I have exposed to, mutual friends, etc were disgusted and mad at first but now treat her like nothing is wrong and I get the sense that it's just a problem between the two of us and no one is at fault. She has a very strong power manipulation to make half the people feel sorry for her with lies and tears and the other half with them making them worried about how she will feel about them if they cross her. Is this a normal situation or did she get to all of them and basically made them believe it was my fault or just a typical irreconcilable differences divorce. I'm running into people I thought I could count on saying they 'dont want to take sides'


----------



## GusPolinski

stillfightingforus said:


> Time for a more serious request for help. The people that I have exposed to, mutual friends, etc were disgusted and mad at first but now treat her like nothing is wrong and I get the sense that it's just a problem between the two of us and no one is at fault. She has a very strong power manipulation to make half the people feel sorry for her with lies and tears and the other half with them making them worried about how she will feel about them if they cross her. Is this a normal situation or did she get to all of them and basically made them believe it was my fault or just a typical irreconcilable differences divorce. I'm running into people I thought I could count on saying they 'dont want to take sides'


Doesn’t matter. Just cut them out of your life.


----------



## dubsey

that problem will go away when you detach and quit caring about her and what people think about her. Just be your best version of you and it will sort itself.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

dubsey said:


> that problem will go away when you detach and quit caring about her and what people think about her. Just be your best version of you and it will sort itself.


I can do that!


----------



## Satya

Those are no friends of yours.
Dump them and don't feel an ounce of guilt.


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> Time for a more serious request for help. The people that I have exposed to, mutual friends, etc were disgusted and mad at first but now treat her like nothing is wrong and I get the sense that it's just a problem between the two of us and no one is at fault. She has a very strong power manipulation to make half the people feel sorry for her with lies and tears and the other half with them making them worried about how she will feel about them if they cross her. Is this a normal situation or did she get to all of them and basically made them believe it was my fault or just a typical irreconcilable differences divorce. I'm running into people I thought I could count on saying they 'dont want to take sides'


During this time you will learn who your friends truly are, who are not really friends but people you know and people who you need to cut out of your life. 

I cut quite a few people out of my life, don't miss them either.


----------



## Malaise

GusPolinski said:


> Doesn’t matter. Just cut them out of your life.


And don't feel bad about letting them know why if they ask.


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> Time for a more serious request for help. The people that I have exposed to, mutual friends, etc were disgusted and mad at first but now treat her like nothing is wrong and I get the sense that it's just a problem between the two of us and no one is at fault. She has a very strong power manipulation to make half the people feel sorry for her with lies and tears and the other half with them making them worried about how she will feel about them if they cross her. Is this a normal situation or did she get to all of them and basically made them believe it was my fault or just a typical irreconcilable differences divorce. I'm running into people I thought I could count on saying they 'dont want to take sides'


Relax

My ex was the same, pulled the victim card. Emotions and talk etc

It's in the process of becoming undone. People around her are starting to open their eyes


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

SFFU, How is it going? I hope you are detaching and moving on. You deserve far better than your STBXW. 

I would strongly encourage you to expose on Facebook, and if you have POSON name,which I think you do, mention it. She sees herself as this "holier than thou" woman. From your posts, I would think she is a classic narcissist. In lieu of this, you can knock her down a notch by doing this. You have taken far too much abuse in my opinion, and it is now time for you to go for the "jugular"....her ego.
You will get much satisfaction watching her attempt to spin the story. This puts her on the defensive.

I hope you will stand up for yourself and put her in her place.....the dog house.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> SFFU, How is it going? I hope you are detaching and moving on. You deserve far better than your STBXW.
> 
> I would strongly encourage you to expose on Facebook, and if you have POSON name,which I think you do, mention it. She sees herself as this "holier than thou" woman. From your posts, I would think she is a classic narcissist. In lieu of this, you can knock her down a notch by doing this. You have taken far too much abuse in my opinion, and it is now time for you to go for the "jugular"....her ego.
> You will get much satisfaction watching her attempt to spin the story. This puts her on the defensive.
> 
> I hope you will stand up for yourself and put her in her place.....the dog house.


I have been tempted to write out a well written story on Facebook and expose that way, even as a re-exposure. I feel like I'm getting beaten if there was a score to be kept by taking the high road on a lot of things but I'm trying to do what best serves my number one priority and that's the kids. We have our first Friend of the Court meeting on Wednesday and from there it will begin the process of mediation on who's plan will win out in terms of our custody proposals. I believe she wants 50/50 but I want Joint/Primary Physical. That means decisions are made together but kids would remain with me more than half the time in our house. 

I just worry about legal repercussions if I take this to social media. Don't care what my STBXW thinks anymore but I do not want to jeopardize my custody case. Does anyone have good examples about exposing on social media without looking like a crazy fool and it being something worthwhile?


----------



## Tron

Talk to your lawyer, but I don't believe that you should torpedo your case for custody for a pound of flesh. 

You can always expose when the deal is signed, sealed and delivered.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Tron said:


> Talk to your lawyer, but I don't believe that you should torpedo your case for custody for a pound of flesh.
> 
> You can always expose when the deal is signed, sealed and delivered.


Gotcha, as much as I would like to, nothing is worth doing what is most important for the kids.


----------



## Malaise

At this point who knows what happened?

How much did you tell them? 


What was the reaction?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Malaise said:


> At this point who knows what happened?
> 
> How much did you tell them?
> 
> 
> What was the reaction?


Kids? We haven't told them yet or do you mean friends? Friends just know what they were told in December they might think affair is over. That's what my wife has been telling people but OMs wife coming out of the blue saying they are still running around is fishy. Wife said she just might be saying this now because OM may have asked for a divorce?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Not a good day today folks. Haven't lost my faith but my faith in humanity. Though I realized that my wife was long gone months ago in terms of actions, mindset and every other facet. I have been fighting to build a case that allows me to get primary custody of kids. We met with Friend of the Court services today. The lady might of as well been hired by my wife. To the FOC. Affair means nothing, wife's neglect and focus on the affair means nothing. They are dead set in their ways on 50/50. As you can imagine my life was quite emboldened by all this afterward. As she destroys to family's the FOC basically said what her friends and allies have said. The affair is just an issue between us. Divorces happen, people have to move on. I pointed out examples of neglect in the past week even and the lady just shrugged her shoulders and said so. She said since I was there that the kids were ok when she's always on her phone. I stated thats my point! I'm scared as hell how bad it will be when I'm not there. Again lady just shrugs her shoulders. I had been preparing was this day for 2 months and it it just sucked the wind right out of me. She also sided with wife on that we need to tell the kids together and they musnt know the details. She went as far as to say kids, even when 40 shouldn't know the details ... That it was none of their business. All I can say is thank God I had an appointment with my IC after. Lots more details here but you get the gist. Essentially my wife can do as she pleases and it won't effect the reccomendation if the FOC to propose 50/50. I know how to take a loss but when my kids future is at stake here .... I feel helpless and deeply saddened


----------



## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> Not a good day today folks. Haven't lost my faith but my faith in humanity. Though I realized that my wife was long gone months ago in terms of actions, mindset and every other facet. I have been fighting to build a case that allows me to get primary custody of kids. We met with Friend of the Court services today. The lady might of as well been hired by my wife. To the FOC. Affair means nothing, wife's neglect and focus on the affair means nothing. They are dead set in their ways on 50/50. As you can imagine my life was quite emboldened by all this afterward. As she destroys to family's the FOC basically said what her friends and allies have said. The affair is just an issue between us. Divorces happen, people have to move on. I pointed out examples of neglect in the past week even and the lady just shrugged her shoulders and said so. She said since I was there that the kids were ok when she's always on her phone. I stated thats my point! I'm scared as hell how bad it will be when I'm not there. Again lady just shrugs her shoulders. I had been preparing was this day for 2 months and it it just sucked the wind right out of me. She also sided with wife on that we need to tell the kids together and they musnt know the details. She went as far as to say kids, even when 40 shouldn't know the details ... That it was none of their business. All I can say is thank God I had an appointment with my IC after. Lots more details here but you get the gist. Essentially my wife can do as she pleases and it won't effect the reccomendation if the FOC to propose 50/50. I know how to take a loss but when my kids future is at stake here .... I feel helpless and deeply saddened


It is a broken system and it sucks. The state just wants to see a roof over the kids head, food on the table and heat on when it's cold. That is pretty much it. 

You can only be the best you can be for your kids. 

Sorry it is working out like this.


----------



## OutofRetirement

How do you know that woman isn't cheating on her own husband right now?

Do you have a lawyer? It seems this woman is stepping over the line about how to tell your kids and when. Do you think she really can tell you that you never can tell your kids the details, even when they're 40? Is she a government employee?


----------



## Malaise

stillfightingforus said:


> *I have been tempted to write out a well written story on Facebook and expose that way, even as a re-exposure. ** I feel like I'm getting beaten if there was a score to be kept by taking the high road* on a lot of things but I'm trying to do what best serves my number one priority and that's the kids. We have our first Friend of the Court meeting on Wednesday and from there it will begin the process of mediation on who's plan will win out in terms of our custody proposals. I believe she wants 50/50 but I want Joint/Primary Physical. That means decisions are made together but kids would remain with me more than half the time in our house.
> 
> I just worry about legal repercussions if I take this to social media. Don't care what my STBXW thinks anymore but I do not want to jeopardize my custody case. *Does anyone have good examples about exposing on social media without looking like a crazy fool *and it being something worthwhile?


This is why I asked who knew what.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Not a good day today folks. Haven't lost my faith but my faith in humanity. Though I realized that my wife was long gone months ago in terms of actions, mindset and every other facet. I have been fighting to build a case that allows me to get primary custody of kids. We met with Friend of the Court services today. The lady might of as well been hired by my wife. To the FOC. Affair means nothing, wife's neglect and focus on the affair means nothing. They are dead set in their ways on 50/50. As you can imagine my life was quite emboldened by all this afterward. As she destroys to family's the FOC basically said what her friends and allies have said. The affair is just an issue between us. Divorces happen, people have to move on. I pointed out examples of neglect in the past week even and the lady just shrugged her shoulders and said so. She said since I was there that the kids were ok when she's always on her phone. I stated thats my point! I'm scared as hell how bad it will be when I'm not there. Again lady just shrugs her shoulders. I had been preparing was this day for 2 months and it it just sucked the wind right out of me. She also sided with wife on that we need to tell the kids together and they musnt know the details. She went as far as to say kids, even when 40 shouldn't know the details ... That it was none of their business. All I can say is thank God I had an appointment with my IC after. Lots more details here but you get the gist. Essentially my wife can do as she pleases and it won't effect the reccomendation if the FOC to propose 50/50. I know how to take a loss but when my kids future is at stake here .... I feel helpless and deeply saddened


SFFU, reality check. If your wife is not in prison or you have youtube's of her smoking a crack pipe she is getting 50%. Your belief in what is right and what is actually legal in how this mess is actually getting resolved are 2 different things, You need to get use to that. Sorry but that is how it is. 

As for your kids and how they are affected you cannot change your ex being a crappy wife or a hardly interested parent. You can control how you spend time with them and teach them how not to be like her.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Just tell you kids what us going on without your wife. How you inform your kids is none of that court advocate's business and quite frankly none of your wife's business either. We told you this before. 

Just tell your kid's exactly what is going on. Alone, just you and them. That will shut your wife up for a while. Tell them the guys name so they can ask her why is she breaking up the family home for another woman's husband. 

Quit ***** footing around.


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## Lostinthought61

The friend of the court woman was an complete ass...and i can tell you right now that if it was her marriage she damn well would have cared...sorry Still, but at eh end of the day what she said has no bearing on your discussion with your kids you have every right to tell your kids what you want (within reason) and frankly i woudl have told that woman it is none of her Fing business what you tell your kids...and here is another thing...if you had done that same thing don't you know that they would have gone after you as abandonment. So i would tell your wife that you intend to tell your kids the truth and tell her to go to Fing hell...this is BS. Our courts are still one sided.


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## SentHereForAReason

She wouldn't even call the affair for what it was. She called it a distraction and said when marriages aren't going well we all have distractions.


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> She wouldn't even call the affair for what it was. She called it a distraction and said when marriages aren't going well we all have distractions.


I feel for you, I really do.

I'm in a similar position. The ex doesn't spend the quality time like she use to with the kids and it hurts.

I said this to my therapist and her response was: look, their not being tortured. Their being fed and have a roof over their head. What she does with the kids is out of control, I can't control it.

When you think about it, I could turn into a lazy parent and who is right then? Gets too messy by finger pointing


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Do not give up the fight. Get a good lawyer. It is not over. This is about your children. You have to get your hands dirty roll up your sleeves and come out swinging. You seemed resigned to defeat. Do not quit fighting. 

Find a lawyer that specializes in representing men.

Get yourself a new parish, make new friends. Work on yourself.

If it were me I would tell the kids the truth when you sit down. Mom has a boyfriend, she does not love your dad anymore.......

I would bet the kids already suspect something.

Send out emails to family and friends stating the reason and by all means mention the name of affair partner. 

Brother, I worry about you as you seem to have no fight on you. Do not let this ***** win! Losing is not an option. This is something you need to win at all costs


----------



## Nucking Futs

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Do not give up the fight. Get a good lawyer. It is not over. This is about your children. You have to get your hands dirty roll up your sleeves and come out swinging. You seemed resigned to defeat. Do not quit fighting.
> 
> Find a lawyer that specializes in representing men.
> 
> Get yourself a new parish, make new friends. Work on yourself.
> 
> If it were me I would tell the kids the truth when you sit down. Mom has a boyfriend, she does not love your dad anymore.......
> 
> I would bet the kids already suspect something.
> 
> Send out emails to family and friends stating the reason and by all means mention the name of affair partner.
> 
> Brother, I worry about you as you seem to have no fight on you. Do not let this ***** win! Losing is not an option. This is something you need to win at all costs


Do not let her gas light her family and friends by introducing him as someone that came along after the divorce. Get the truth out there. Unless you're in the UK, where telling the truth can get you in big trouble.


----------



## 3putt

Nucking Futs said:


> Do not let her gas light her family and friends by introducing him as someone that came along after the divorce. Get the truth out there. *Unless you're in the UK, where telling the truth can get you in big trouble*.


That one still blows my mind.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Also didn't help and I am not afraid to admit this, I had a moment of weakness last night. After the kids went to bed I wanted to talk to her. About not going to church together anymore, moving out of the bedroom, etc. Then it gets into this space where again, I am saying how ridiculous this all is and you never gave me a legitimate chance to save this when you say you did. The times she says she tried, she was of course involved with him. I start going on the logic and rationalization path, which I know is futile, saying you would have never looked upon our marriage or me in a positive light as long as you are getting the highs from the affair. She goes on about not being happy for years and again, the affair was not what wants her to have a divorce now but then I hit her with all of the proof in my head finally, that she cannot lie to me anymore and she does start to realize she cannot lie and that I know everything.

Just when I feel like she is again, being open an honest, she tells me that she did try for a week during our first counseling session that she wasn't talking to the AP. First of all, a week? Second of all, I have emails that prove she was still talking to him during that week, every day and night and even seeing him.

I went into that conversation with an objective, as I have been steering clear of all conversations but we had our big meeting at the FOC and I wanted to get some things off of my mind but I just turn my own self on my head and start talking about the logic and fairness of it all and I need to stop because it resets the progress of my 180. Gotta admit though, like I said, I had the wind taken out of me yesterday, seeing the topic of holidays and kids and sharing that brought some water to my eyes. My kids and I love the holidays and it hurts knowing that I won't get to spend all of them with them any more in the future, for something that wasn't my choice.

I know I'm going to get reamed for this but I have to be honest. I was taken off of my game last night and caught trying to reason and explain, when I should have just said what I needed to say and be done.

Not making excuses but one of the downsides to having to live together for so long up until the court date, still over 3 months away.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> She wouldn't even call the affair for what it was. She called it a distraction and said when marriages aren't going well we all have distractions.


Cheaters have their own logic. She was 'distracted' by him. LOL. 

The thing you are looking for from her is honesty. By definition cheaters are dishonest people. They lie. They cheat. They minimize, blame shift, blah blag, blah. 

So trying to honestly rationalize in a logical way with a cheater is the very definition of futile. A complete waste of time. 

It is your call on how you want to spend your time.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Also didn't help and I am not afraid to admit this, I had a moment of weakness last night. After the kids went to bed I wanted to talk to her. About not going to church together anymore, moving out of the bedroom, etc. Then it gets into this space where again, I am saying how ridiculous this all is and you never gave me a legitimate chance to save this when you say you did. The times she says she tried, she was of course involved with him. I start going on the logic and rationalization path, which I know is futile, saying you would have never looked upon our marriage or me in a positive light as long as you are getting the highs from the affair. She goes on about not being happy for years and again, the affair was not what wants her to have a divorce now but then I hit her with all of the proof in my head finally, that she cannot lie to me anymore and she does start to realize she cannot lie and that I know everything.
> 
> Just when I feel like she is again, being open an honest, she tells me that she did try for a week during our first counseling session that she wasn't talking to the AP. First of all, a week? Second of all, I have emails that prove she was still talking to him during that week, every day and night and even seeing him.
> 
> I went into that conversation with an objective, as I have been steering clear of all conversations but we had our big meeting at the FOC and I wanted to get some things off of my mind but I just turn my own self on my head and start talking about the logic and fairness of it all and I need to stop because it resets the progress of my 180. Gotta admit though, like I said, I had the wind taken out of me yesterday, seeing the topic of holidays and kids and sharing that brought some water to my eyes. My kids and I love the holidays and it hurts knowing that I won't get to spend all of them with them any more in the future, for something that wasn't my choice.
> 
> I know I'm going to get reamed for this but I have to be honest. I was taken off of my game last night and caught trying to reason and explain, when I should have just said what I needed to say and be done.
> 
> Not making excuses but one of the downsides to having to live together for so long up until the court date, still over 3 months away.


I can think of a thousand ways to make her life in that house so miserable, so awful she moves out really fast. 

Your call.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Enough is enough. You have the power to stop this bull****. You have to get mad as hell and expose. This is what I emailed to family and friends before I vanished for six weeks:

Dear friend:

I was saddened to learn my wife has been having an affair with ###### yesterday. He is a coworker and is married with small children. I will be vacating our house and moving to my condo in Florida. If you need to reach me use the landline number.

As a result of her actions I have advised my attorney to proceed with divorce action.

It is as simple as this.

Cheaters revise history and lie by omission of key facts. Tell the children without her present what is going on. That will make her go ape****.


----------



## Archangel2

SFFU - You have been given great advice here. In light of the disappointments you received yesterday, I hope you take the above advice to heart and prepare yourself for the long war ahead.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> SFFU - You have been given great advice here. In light of the disappointments you received yesterday, I hope you take the above advice to heart and prepare yourself for the long war ahead.


She told me yesterday that she met with our Priest and she's at a Church meeting now so I guess everything is back to being good again now that the affair is on hiatus as of last Thursday. Is that how this is going to work. Affair, stop, say sorry, go back to nothing wrong .... rinse and repeat. I thought the Priest and I had a good talk and he talked to me as my priest and my friend but it appears there's not that much that will be done about church. My next step I think is that I want to arrange a talk with him my STBXW and myself. Would appreciate feedback on that idea.


----------



## Nucking Futs

stillfightingforus said:


> She told me yesterday that she met with our Priest and she's at a Church meeting now so I guess everything is back to being good again now that the affair is on hiatus as of last Thursday. Is that how this is going to work. Affair, stop, say sorry, go back to nothing wrong .... rinse and repeat. I thought the Priest and I had a good talk and he talked to me as my priest and my friend but it appears there's not that much that will be done about church. My next step I think is that I want to arrange a talk with him my STBXW and myself. *Would appreciate feedback on that idea.*


You're wasting your time meeting in private with the priest and your ww, but if I'm dumb enough to keep trying to help you when you keep doing **** like this I guess you have a right to be dumb enough to keep doing **** like this.

Are you in the US or the UK?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Nucking Futs said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> She told me yesterday that she met with our Priest and she's at a Church meeting now so I guess everything is back to being good again now that the affair is on hiatus as of last Thursday. Is that how this is going to work. Affair, stop, say sorry, go back to nothing wrong .... rinse and repeat. I thought the Priest and I had a good talk and he talked to me as my priest and my friend but it appears there's not that much that will be done about church. My next step I think is that I want to arrange a talk with him my STBXW and myself. *Would appreciate feedback on that idea.*
> 
> 
> 
> You're wasting your time meeting in private with the priest and your ww, but if I'm dumb enough to keep trying to help you when you keep doing **** like this I guess you have a right to be dumb enough to keep doing **** like this.
> 
> Are you in the US or the UK?
Click to expand...

In the good ole US of A. Seems like every attempt I have orchestrated to have consequences has fell flat. Think it's God telling me to just keep my head up, keep counting down the days and doing everything I can for the kids. No wonder why infidelity is so rampant. Even the institutions that should care or shun it just let it be. I'll be examining the latest round of advice tonight to see if I should even bother implementing. Thanks dudes!


----------



## Malaise

stillfightingforus said:


> She told me yesterday that she met with our Priest and she's at a Church meeting now so I guess everything is back to being good again now that the affair is on hiatus as of last Thursday. Is that how this is going to work. Affair, stop, say sorry, go back to nothing wrong .... rinse and repeat. I thought the Priest and I had a good talk and he talked to me as my priest and my friend but it appears there's not that much that will be done about church. *My next step I think is that I want to arrange a talk with him my STBXW and myself. * Would appreciate feedback on that idea.


The priest isn't on your side. She has, I presume, confessed and received absolution and is good in the eyes of God and the church. Prove to him the A is ongoing and he may open his eyes. But don't bet on it.

You've already tried reason and logic with her and see what happened. She knows you're right but won't admit it. Why you may ask? Because she doesn't want to stay in the marriage. 

She's checked out, bro. She'll keep giving you illogical, crappy answers, you'll shake your head in disbelief, she knows she's lying but it doesn't matter.

She wants what she wants.


----------



## anchorwatch

Her family, his wife, your priest, even your dishonest wife... when will you stop looking for help and closure from others, when it can only come from yourself? 

She doesn't want to be with you. There doesn't even need to be a reason, she just doesn't. 

Stop pain shopping! Leave her behind and move forward as fast as you can.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> She told me yesterday that she met with our Priest and she's at a Church meeting now so I guess everything is back to being good again now that the affair is on hiatus as of last Thursday. Is that how this is going to work. Affair, stop, say sorry, go back to nothing wrong .... rinse and repeat. I thought the Priest and I had a good talk and he talked to me as my priest and my friend but it appears there's not that much that will be done about church. My next step I think is that I want to arrange a talk with him my STBXW and myself. Would appreciate feedback on that idea.


What exactly do you expect the priest to do? Shame her from the pulpit? Point her out during the Sunday sermon and ask her to leave? Excommunicate her? Or just stop talking to her?

What exactly do you think a meeting with her and the priest will accomplish? Her changing her mind?


----------



## Nucking Futs

stillfightingforus said:


> In the good ole US of A. *Seems like every attempt I have orchestrated to have consequences has fell flat.* Think it's God telling me to just keep my head up, keep counting down the days and doing everything I can for the kids. No wonder why infidelity is so rampant. Even the institutions that should care or shun it just let it be. I'll be examining the latest round of advice tonight to see if I should even bother implementing. Thanks dudes!


That's because it's all been weak stuff like you just suggested. Really, with the way she's been acting, you think it's going to help to sit down with her and the priest to talk? Really?

Can you prove the affair is still in progress since she spoke with the priest? If so, call him up and tell him she's actively cheating and you can prove it. Offer him the proof. If he doesn't stop her from doing the work she's doing then get the church directory and send a letter to each member of the parish and the bishop that you can no longer attend a church that endorses infidelity and will be seeking a new church home. Then go find a new church, which your kids will attend with you when on your time. 

If you're going to go, go big. Ruin her reputation in that church and light a fire under that priest. Make sure you name OM in the letter so everyone in that church will know if she brings him there. Make sure you can prove every word you say in any exposure.

Will this do any good? No. You have been so weak for so long that there's very little chance you can do anything to salvage any self respect at this point. But like I said, if you're going to go, go big. Burn everything down.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> In the good ole US of A. Seems like every attempt I have orchestrated to have consequences has fell flat. Think it's God telling me to just keep my head up, keep counting down the days and doing everything I can for the kids. No wonder why infidelity is so rampant. Even the institutions that should care or shun it just let it be. I'll be examining the latest round of advice tonight to see if I should even bother implementing. Thanks dudes!


What consequences do you think she should have? What do you think is fair? 

Because clearly her not having experienced consequences that are satisfactory in YOUR eyes are holding YOU BACK.

Her, she could CARE LESS what you think. Not holding her back at all. 

So while you sit embittered and trapped that the law and society in the USA does not operate in a fashion that you think is right she is just happy as a clam without a care in the world for you. 

So sit bitter in your self imposed trap or move along with your life. Which is it going to be?


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## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> In the good ole US of A. Seems like every attempt I have orchestrated to have consequences has fell flat. Think it's God telling me to just keep my head up, keep counting down the days and doing everything I can for the kids. No wonder why infidelity is so rampant. Even the institutions that should care or shun it just let it be. I'll be examining the latest round of advice tonight to see if I should even bother implementing. Thanks dudes!


Maybe I'm going down the wrong path, but what has god done for you up until this point? I think you need to separate religion from this situation. Think about it:

Priest - Your disappointed in him because his not taking your side. In fact, he probably forgave your wife hence why she got a little win to keep doing what she's doing
God - How did he even let this happen? How did he let it get to this point?

You do realise you can only rely on yourself and nobody else? God can't fix this, the priest can't fix this, your wife can't fix this, the AP can't fix this, clarity can't fix this (you already have clarity). Only YOU can fix this and that's from moving on from all of this bull****. I wish you had another avenue but you don't, you've tried them all already. 

I'm going through infidelity myself, over the last week I've cut loose of so many friends/family that even talk to my ex as I don't need stories about how bad she's going, how good she's going. The drama isn't worth it. I suggest you go to another church and remove yourself from her life as much as you can. IT'S NOT WORTH THE DRAMA


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## Archangel2

tom72 said:


> I'm going through infidelity myself, over the last week I've cut loose of so many friends/family that even talk to my ex as I don't need stories about how bad she's going, how good she's going. The drama isn't worth it. *I suggest you go to another* *church and remove yourself from her life as much as you can. IT'S NOT WORTH THE DRAMA*


I think you have your answer here. Let Mark 6:11 be your inspiration:

"And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and 
shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them"


----------



## tom72

I'll add a few more things:

Tell your kids, stop protecting your wife hoping that she will come back to you. Do you think they would be happy if you tried to protect how much damage she's done to the family?

Yes your a victim of infidelity, but stop letting that crush your world. You'll be better for acting out on it. This is how I see it playing out:

She'll get more then she's entitled to because you think she will wakeup on how much of a nice guy you are
She will be married in 5 years and you'll still be trying to win her back, you'll have so much trouble gaining self respect again
Your kids will lose respect for you as you put up with her bull****

In your phone, change her name to "Lost Cause" because that's what she is. Every time my ex calls or sms, the number pops up, I get a laugh and then get annoyed that she's contacting me. Reminds you every time what she is now, not what she was before

It's easy to stay down when your down but you'll stay in hell until you get out of it. It's not an overnight thing. Don't be a jerk to her but don't give her 5 cents, it was her choice to cut you from her life so she can lose a good man all together. Can't pick and chose lol

I never wanted to have a split family, family is everything to me (still is) but get out of all this bull****. Got dealt with a bad deck of cards so try and make the best of it. I feel for you, but it's so frustrating on how weak your being and letting her walk all over you.

I thought I was being weak but when I read your posts, it shows me how well I've done despite my flaws and weakness. It doesn't make me happy that this is the case in fact it does sadden me a bit. Your a good person but enough is enough

If you really want her back, go do 180 on her, sleep with a girl and make sure word gets back to her. She won't be able to cope that your moving on. It's all easier said then done but you need to find the balls sir. She knows you'll take her back without any consequence. It's not right but why would she changed? She's gotten away with it so far

I wish this was a troll thread/account to make myself and others feel better about our progress but it's not, I hate seeing this happen tbh


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

My friend you are letting her control everything from a to Z. She has suffered nothing. While you sit back and let her walk all over you.

You need to go off on her and let her have it with both barrels verbally away from your children.

This nonsense has to stop! The only one that can stop the insanity it is you. Sadly I’m beginning to think you like wallowing in misery otherwise you would’ve manned up by now.

I can tell you one thing you keep doing what you’re doing and she is going to clean your clock and you’re going to be left with absolutely zilch. it will be this way solely for the fact you are too damn scared/timid to stand up for yourself.

You are letting her rewrite history get her spin on everything out there while you just sit back on your hands. 

She does not respect you for the very reason you’re showing no strength at all. Stand up to her tell her Game time is over get your ass out of the house and now. You have to be firm!She is not your friend. I repeat she is not your friend. I repeat she is not your friend. Let this sink in. She is your sworn enemy. Get that through your brain.

Right now you’re at rock bottom when you hit rock bottom there’s only one way to go and that is up. So when you’re digging a hole all I can tell you stop digging.

Einstein said it best, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.


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## SentHereForAReason

I get the picture;

1. Either go back to full 180, just DGAF and take care of my kids and myself;
2. Go scorched earth but realize it's probably not going to even phase her at this point;

I got stuck in the middle and basically had a full relapse ... oh well, 3.5 months to go


----------



## tom72

One thing I learnt recently:

My ex has been trying to talk to me and ask for advice on things, I fell in the trap gave some advice which she liked which I then told her not to ask anymore and to stay away from me. She's now learnt to drop the ego bull**** on me. I told her she lost me as a person, she can't pick and chose what she wants in me. 

We talked about the infidelity, she has a habit of trying to convince herself of bull**** that we never had a good relationship, and she can't see the bull**** she's created. After a few hard truths to her (not in a rude way), she was speechless, it was that awkward silence and seeing her zone out as reality hits her. She mentioned that she wouldn't of had the career she had if it wasn't for me, then a few minutes later she comes up "I didn't treat her right". I didn't even hit back at that, it's not up to me to convince her otherwise. She's upset about the people I've had to lose to get away from her. Not one moment I got needy and pleaded her to take me back. 

Prime example that she still cares (I find it funny tbh). Somebody was saying **** behind my back so she attacked them for it, and turned the attack on the person that was saying ****. 

Doesn't mean we are in the slightest way of getting back together, but it feels good to be open and honest. She had no come back. She tried to rewrite history and use any excuse to make her actions justified, when she knew I wasn't taking it. I did go down the revenge path but I was just taking myself into hell trying to get back at her for short term happiness, it wasn't the answer. After the conversation, I felt better for saying how it is, not being needy. She'll have to live with her destruction for the rest of her life, she'll end up in more pain then me.

Moral: She still cares deep down, she's just trying to make her actions justified to ease the guilt. Don't play her games: it will eat her, the more your silent. It was her choice, let her live with her choice


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> I get the picture;
> 
> 1. Either go back to full 180, just DGAF and take care of my kids and myself;
> 2. Go scorched earth but realize it's probably not going to even phase her at this point;
> 
> I got stuck in the middle and basically had a full relapse ... oh well, 3.5 months to go


Back to full 180.... Who cares if it doesn't phase her? Did it phase her when she was cheating on her husband and family?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

stillfightingforus said:


> I get the picture;
> 
> 1. Either go back to full 180, just DGAF and take care of my kids and myself;
> 2. Go scorched earth but realize it's probably not going to even phase her at this point;
> 
> I got stuck in the middle and basically had a full relapse ... oh well, 3.5 months to go


Make her last 3.5 months pure hell. Where is she going when the divorce is final? Please tell me you are not going to stay in the same house. Do not let her kick you out of the house.


----------



## tom72

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Make her last 3.5 months pure hell. Where is she going when the divorce is final? Please tell me you are not going to stay in the same house. Do not let her kick you out of the house.


I fear his 180 is to only to get her back, not for his self development.


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## Marc878

Tell hour kids the truth in a sanitized way. Don't become your stbxw's patsy and lie to them.

Mr Nice Guy routine gets you nothing.

Better wake up


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## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Make her last 3.5 months pure hell. Where is she going when the divorce is final? Please tell me you are not going to stay in the same house. Do not let her kick you out of the house.


Oh good lord no, I'm going for the house since this is what the kids know and love as 'home'. The only reason she would go for it now would be to try to gain leverage or screw me. She had been looking for houses with AP since last July. She wants a fixer-upper. May not pan out the way she wanted now however, she was hoping her love would help her remodel but he's busy remodeling his wife for the time being.


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> Oh good lord no, I'm going for the house since this is what the kids know and love as 'home'. The only reason she would go for it now would be to try to gain leverage or screw me. She had been looking for houses with AP since last July. She wants a fixer-upper. May not pan out the way she wanted now however, she was hoping her love would help her remodel but he's busy remodeling his wife for the time being.


Have you told her you want to keep it?


----------



## eric1

If I had $100k to change the world, I’d pay it this instant if you took every piece of advice that Lonely Husband has given you.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

tom72 said:


> Have you told her you want to keep it?


Yup, only time she says not to assume I'm getting it is when I'm acting high and mighty about the kids or parenting time.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

180 and scorched earth.

SFFU, Correct me if I am wrong but her affair with this man is now on +7 years. Why you continue to behave as if you want her back is beyond me. But that's your choice. That being said she has been gone a long long time. The nicer you are to her and the more you plead using logic and rationality and try to get her to see the light and pick you the less and less she respects you. She has zero respect for you as a husband and basically puts on a show to respect you as a father in front of the kids. 

For those reasons alone you have to stick with the 180 and build back your self respect. As far as scorched earth, well, she has shown you crumbs in the way of honesty, compassion, respect and dignity. She is actually a very cruel woman. For that I would return zero consideration to her. Zero.

So for starts perhaps tell your children what is going on, just you. In an age appropriate way. 

Take back your life. Stop waiting for her. That train left.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> 180 and scorched earth.
> 
> SFFU, Correct me if I am wrong but her affair with this man is now on +7 years. Why you continue to behave as if you want her back is beyond me. But that's your choice. That being said she has been gone a long long time. The nicer you are to her and the more you plead using logic and rationality and try to get her to see the light and pick you the less and less she respects you. She has zero respect for you as a husband and basically puts on a show to respect you as a father in front of the kids.
> 
> For those reasons alone you have to stick with the 180 and build back your self respect. As far as scorched earth, well, she has shown you crumbs in the way of honesty, compassion, respect and dignity. She is actually a very cruel woman. For that I would return zero consideration to her. Zero.
> 
> So for starts perhaps tell your children what is going on, just you. In an age appropriate way.
> 
> Take back your life. Stop waiting for her. That train left.


Yup, 2 affairs. 2009 and maybe into the beginning of 2010 and again starting in May of 2017. Not that it's any freakin consolation prize but at least I know there was nothing in between. Have proof from the texts and emails from December, where she talks about not losing him for a 2nd time and pretty much details she gave me another chance in early 2010 and he decided to stay with his then girlfriend and now wife.


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> Yup, only time she says not to assume I'm getting it is when I'm acting high and mighty about the kids or parenting time.


I think your doing this to show her that your the better parent. Doesn't work, it's a "look at me, I'm so perfect" dance.

Yes your looking after the kids and doing the best you can, but they need to see what's actually going on. Show them that your not tolerating her behaviour

From what I remeber, soon as the 1st court session was done, you were going to tell them. Have you?

They need to learn how to deal with problems when they come, don't shock them


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> Oh good lord no, I'm going for the house since this is what the kids know and love as 'home'. The only reason she would go for it now would be to try to gain leverage or screw me*.*


Screw you is correct! Your stbx is still in dream world but with the clock ticking she will start realizing the wonderful happy single life is going to be expensive. She has bulldozed you so far don't expect her to be reasonable when it comes to money! 

You want the house and primary custody? What are you going to give to get it? This is how you need to start thinking. You've got 3.5 months, the longer and closer to that date you get the more it will cost you.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Yup, only time she says not to assume I'm getting it is when I'm acting high and mighty about the kids or parenting time.


You yap with her but your threats are hollow. 

She starts acting like an jerk return the favor by forcing her to spend money on a lawyer in response. When she tries to reason with you about keeping divorce costs down tell her you actually enjoy making her spend more money on the divorce she wants. Let her know that spending every red cent now that you make in your lifetime will be worth making her financially miserable. That you are sick of her, that she disgusts you and now you actually get a perverse pleasure out of not cooperating with her at all. That you see no reason to.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Yup, 2 affairs. 2009 and maybe into the beginning of 2010 and again starting in May of 2017. Not that it's any freakin consolation prize but at least I know there was nothing in between. Have proof from the texts and emails from December, where she talks about not losing him for a 2nd time and pretty much details she gave me another chance in early 2010 and he decided to stay with his then girlfriend and now wife.


Correction: You gave her a second chance. Now here we are.


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## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, only time she says not to assume I'm getting it is when I'm acting high and mighty about the kids or parenting time.
> 
> 
> 
> You yap with her but your threats are hollow.
> 
> She starts acting like an jerk return the favor by forcing her to spend money on a lawyer in response. When she tries to reason with you about keeping divorce costs down tell her you actually enjoy making her spend more money on the divorce she wants. Let her know that spending every red cent now that you make in your lifetime will be worth making her financially miserable. That you are sick of her, that she disgusts you and now you actually get a perverse pleasure out of not cooperating with her at all. That you see no reason to.
Click to expand...

Yeah there were not many but a few moments of pride last night. She said so can we talk about the parenting schedule. I said if you want 50/50 there's no sense in talking about it and we'll let the court decide. She said so we are going to spend all our money in court fighting over things and I said not everything but when it comes to the kids I will not back down.


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## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> Yeah there were not many but a few moments of pride last night. She said so can we talk about the parenting schedule. I said if you want 50/50 there's no sense in talking about it and we'll let the court decide. She said so we are going to spend all our money in court fighting over things and I said not everything but when it comes to the kids I will not back down.


I don't want to burst your bubble but the courts will end up 50/50

The kids aren't in danger under her supervision, she's not an alcoholic or drug user. She'll provide a roof over their head.

Being a lazy parent won't get you more then 50/50 unless she agrees to it.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Those rings she tortured you with leaving them out not wearing them? Any way you can make them disappear.? Pawn them. PM me on ways to spend the money.


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## tom72

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Those rings she tortured you with leaving them out not wearing them? Any way you can make them disappear.? Pawn them. PM me on ways to spend the money.


He should sell them, put it into the lawyers account. Tell her that his using them as payments for his lawyer for nitty gritty talks that she finds money wasting


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

tom72 said:


> He should sell them, put it into the lawyers account. Tell her that his using them as payments for his lawyer for nitty gritty talks that she finds money wasting


No, the money is for something else. He cannot tell her he has the rings. She asks, he shrugs. He reminds her she probably left them in a hotel room.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

SFFS, the reason I am saying push the lawyer bill is to push her out the door now. The longer she stays, the higher the legal bill. Infinity high. 

She squawks about you changing your mind about cooperating just tell her you were distracted. Remind her like how she changed her mind about being faithful because she was distracted. Now you are distracted about the divorce. You changed your mind about cooperating as long as she stays in that home.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

You have been provided some pretty solid advice since you have been on this site, and yet you still don’t seem to get what you need to be done. You seem to cower in fear. 

Hells bells man! Listen to those who have been there done that. She is your ENEMY. She is trying to intimidate you and she appears to be succeeding. Why.......BECAUSE YOU ALLOW HER TO!

EXPOSURE! That is your ace in the hole. That is how you knock the wind out of her sails. Why won’t you let it fly? If you have evidence do so via email, and Facebook.

If you are happy being a doormat keep doing what you are doing.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Read what Affaircare says about exposure.


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## tom72

His not going to exposure, he doesn't have it in him. I would suggest he has a few quite scotches which will get him in the mood to expose. His still doing the "good guy" dance which his wife is laughing at. Why wouldn't you?

You should discuss with your ex about the house, come to terms about the house and get a lawyer to sign off on it. It'll get rid of her quicker.

I was living with my ex, soon as we agreed about the house, I kicked her out the same week even though it's technically still both of ours. Show her you mean business. 

Her friend brought a male friend over, I didn't like it and I didn't know him. I told her to remove him from the house or I will. She just laughed through sms thinking i would let it slide within 20 seconds of getting the "**** off" message, I went outside and kicked him out myself. She then knew the games were over and she was out real quick. Day she moved out, crocodile tears about how she ****ed up. Few days I'll never forget, got my power back


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## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> You have been provided some pretty solid advice since you have been on this site, and yet you still don’t seem to get what you need to be done. You seem to cower in fear.
> 
> Hells bells man! Listen to those who have been there done that. She is your ENEMY. She is trying to intimidate you and she appears to be succeeding. Why.......BECAUSE YOU ALLOW HER TO!
> 
> EXPOSURE! That is your ace in the hole. That is how you knock the wind out of her sails. Why won’t you let it fly? If you have evidence do so via email, and Facebook.
> 
> If you are happy being a doormat keep doing what you are doing.


Unfortunately it appears that her manipulation techniques are more effective than I had hoped with others. Part of issue with why I feel lost in this process, is that I exposed .. at first to get help ending the affair and snapping her out of it and 2nd to have her face some consequences. I have exposed to;

Her Father, Step-Mother
Her Sister, Brother-In-Law
Grandparents
My Brother and Sister
My Parents
A Handful Of Family Friends
Priest
School Principal

And out of all of those people this is the breakdown to what has happened.

- Of course my family is 100% backing me
- Her Family was all in on being angry at first but now has since just either wanted to stay out of it or seems to just want to forget it so they can move on with their own lives. Grandparents are back to babying her, sister is staying out of it and is back to a normal relationship with her and my brother-in-law who wanted to give her the ultimate what for (co-worker) seems to have just wanted to move on as well. I can understand all that, that's her flesh and blood.
- Family Friends were horrified at first but she has since talked to all of them and now they are more, like I just hope the best for you both, they are saddened but want to stay out of it. Some have even said they don't want to do anything because they don't want to upset her or make it awkward between them. The school principal said this as well, which I can understand.
- Priest seems to be saddened and upset by it all but after I meet him, she meets with him and she's back to attending meetings and doing all of her normal church stuff right after

She's a master manipulator, can turn on the tears in seconds and for those few that don't feel bad for her when she goes into her sob story, they are afraid to 'upset' her or cross her.

So you can see what I'm dealing with. And for exposure, we aren't talking about oh yea, she had an affair and gave they synopsis, I gave those people granular details! Exposure has done nothing for me up until this point but maybe I just haven't exposed to a segment I'm missing or maybe like I had said yesterday, I just need to cut my losses and keep focusing on making sure the kids are alright and fighting for what matters in court.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

And as far as telling the kids on my own that is my greatest internal conflict right now. I could care less what she thinks, I just want to do what is right by them. STBXW wants to work on it together to tell them together. I don't but I don't know if that's just because I'm angry or I truly believe it's best for the kids that they get the news from me? Would it be out of spite or the best thing, everything I have read has said to tell them together for the kids' benefit but I'm not completely sold on that.


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## SentHereForAReason

Perfect example of how my exposure has gone so far. Just got a text back from a mutual friend (woman) and she stated how her heart breaks for this situation but in her response included; "You two are such loving wonderful parents" I think that tells me how this is going to go. No matter what, she will be viewed overall as how they knew her before. They may see her in a bit different light but nothing will change in how they interact with her, etc.


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> Perfect example of how my exposure has gone so far. Just got a text back from a mutual friend (woman) and she stated how her heart breaks for this situation but in her response included; "You two are such loving wonderful parents" I think that tells me how this is going to go. No matter what, she will be viewed overall as how they knew her before. They may see her in a bit different light but nothing will change in how they interact with her, etc.


You need to chill and not worry about other peoples opinions so much

When I exposed my ex, I got the same response and they couldn't figure why should she could've done what she done and didn't believe it was true. Few weeks later, their opinions changed real quick


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> And as far as telling the kids on my own that is my greatest internal conflict right now. I could care less what she thinks, I just want to do what is right by them. STBXW wants to work on it together to tell them together. I don't but I don't know if that's just because I'm angry or I truly believe it's best for the kids that they get the news from me? Would it be out of spite or the best thing, everything I have read has said to tell them together for the kids' benefit but I'm not completely sold on that.


Just say that your breaking up and things will be different. If they ask why, just say "mum was interested in finding love with other men".

I really want this to work out for you (I would love to see you reconcile under the right terms), but you need less emotions and more business. Say the cold hard truth, you can't argue against it


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## SentHereForAReason

tom72 said:


> Just say that your breaking up and things will be different. If they ask why, just say "mum was interested in finding love with other men".
> 
> I really want this to work out for you (I would love to see you reconcile under the right terms), but you need less emotions and more business. Say the cold hard truth, you can't argue against it


Thank you for the advice and words. Today is better than yesterday as I get back to focusing on the right mindset.


----------



## Nucking Futs

stillfightingforus said:


> Unfortunately it appears that her manipulation techniques are more effective than I had hoped with others. Part of issue with why I feel lost in this process, is that I exposed .. at first to get help ending the affair and snapping her out of it and 2nd to have her face some consequences. I have exposed to;
> 
> Her Father, Step-Mother
> Her Sister, Brother-In-Law
> Grandparents
> My Brother and Sister
> My Parents
> A Handful Of Family Friends
> Priest
> School Principal
> 
> And out of all of those people this is the breakdown to what has happened.
> 
> - Of course my family is 100% backing me
> - Her Family was all in on being angry at first but now has since just either wanted to stay out of it or seems to just want to forget it so they can move on with their own lives. Grandparents are back to babying her, sister is staying out of it and is back to a normal relationship with her and my brother-in-law who wanted to give her the ultimate what for (co-worker) seems to have just wanted to move on as well. I can understand all that, that's her flesh and blood.
> - Family Friends were horrified at first but she has since talked to all of them and now they are more, like I just hope the best for you both, they are saddened but want to stay out of it. Some have even said they don't want to do anything because they don't want to upset her or make it awkward between them. The school principal said this as well, which I can understand.
> - Priest seems to be saddened and upset by it all but after I meet him, she meets with him and she's back to attending meetings and doing all of her normal church stuff right after
> 
> *She's a master manipulator, can turn on the tears in seconds and for those few that don't feel bad for her when she goes into her sob story, they are afraid to 'upset' her or cross her.
> *
> So you can see what I'm dealing with. And for exposure, we aren't talking about oh yea, she had an affair and gave they synopsis, I gave those people granular details! Exposure has done nothing for me up until this point but maybe I just haven't exposed to a segment I'm missing or maybe like I had said yesterday, I just need to cut my losses and keep focusing on making sure the kids are alright and fighting for what matters in court.


She may be a master manipulator, but I think the truth is that she doesn't need to be. You have access to extremely experienced people that have tried and tried to help you handle your situation, but you just won't do anything to help yourself. You think the tam hive mind can't handle her? Wrong. She's winning because the tam hive mind has to work through you, and you just will not help yourself.

I was angry for several of my posts in various threads yesterday, and it's your posts that are affecting me. So I'm out. I'm unsubscribing from your threads and putting you on my ignore list. I sincerely wish you good fortune going forward in life, but that's going to require you to toughen up, and I'm done pouring buckshot.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Nucking Futs said:


> She may be a master manipulator, but I think the truth is that she doesn't need to be. You have access to extremely experienced people that have tried and tried to help you handle your situation, but you just won't do anything to help yourself. You think the tam hive mind can't handle her? Wrong. She's winning because the tam hive mind has to work through you, and you just will not help yourself.
> 
> I was angry for several of my posts in various threads yesterday, and it's your posts that are affecting me. So I'm out. I'm unsubscribing from your threads and putting you on my ignore list. I sincerely wish you good fortune going forward in life, but that's going to require you to toughen up, and I'm done pouring buckshot.


Thank you for your help along the way.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

You need quit worrying what other people think. Get your spin out in the open. Mention two affairs.

I know you are stronger than you realize. Your are paralyzed by fear. Read the Chinese parable “maybe so, maybe not”. There is a lesson in there for you.

If you do not tell the children, given what you posted, she will soon it as your fault and will do her damnedness to make you out to be the bad guy. Is this what you want?

This is no longer about her. It is about you. Stand up. Be assertive. 

Her Achilles heel is MONEY. Let her know you are prepared to spend whatever it takes to get the outcome you want.

Leave your current Parrish now. Find another one and get involved and make new friends. 

Work on improving yourself. I know if you dig deep within yourself you can do it.

Do not worry about what anyone thinks and for the love of God quit talking to her. Ignore her and be cold as ice. Start being unpredictable. Make her wonder what you are up to. For the hell of it put a FSBO in your front yard. This will get realtors knocking on the door wanting to sell your house for you even though you have no intention of selling it.

Take all photos of her off the wall of your home and tell her you are erasing her from your life. 

Block her number from your cell phone and make her communicate via your lawyer.

180 for real. Show your children how a real man takes charge.


----------



## jlg07

stillfightingforus said:


> Unfortunately it appears that her manipulation techniques are more effective than I had hoped with others. Part of issue with why I feel lost in this process, is that I exposed .. at first to get help ending the affair and snapping her out of it and 2nd to have her face some consequences. I have exposed to;
> 
> Her Father, Step-Mother
> Her Sister, Brother-In-Law
> Grandparents
> My Brother and Sister
> My Parents
> A Handful Of Family Friends
> Priest
> School Principal
> 
> And out of all of those people this is the breakdown to what has happened.
> 
> - Of course my family is 100% backing me
> - Her Family was all in on being angry at first but now has since just either wanted to stay out of it or seems to just want to forget it so they can move on with their own lives. Grandparents are back to babying her, sister is staying out of it and is back to a normal relationship with her and my brother-in-law who wanted to give her the ultimate what for (co-worker) seems to have just wanted to move on as well. I can understand all that, that's her flesh and blood.
> - Family Friends were horrified at first but she has since talked to all of them and now they are more, like I just hope the best for you both, they are saddened but want to stay out of it. Some have even said they don't want to do anything because they don't want to upset her or make it awkward between them. The school principal said this as well, which I can understand.
> - Priest seems to be saddened and upset by it all but after I meet him, she meets with him and she's back to attending meetings and doing all of her normal church stuff right after
> 
> She's a master manipulator, can turn on the tears in seconds and for those few that don't feel bad for her when she goes into her sob story, they are afraid to 'upset' her or cross her.
> 
> So you can see what I'm dealing with. And for exposure, we aren't talking about oh yea, she had an affair and gave they synopsis, I gave those people granular details! Exposure has done nothing for me up until this point but maybe I just haven't exposed to a segment I'm missing or maybe like I had said yesterday, I just need to cut my losses and keep focusing on making sure the kids are alright and fighting for what matters in court.


Then get rid of all of them, esp. the priest. How she can attend church functions after doing this is beyond me and you should talk directly to the priest about that. I would change churches and specifically let him know why. As for her family, who cares -- they are gone anyway from your life. For the family friends, you will find out WHO really is your friend and who is not. If they back her, drop them from your life, and let them know why. If they want to be friends with a person of her immoral behavior then let them. Not your worry. YOU know the truth. You can find new friends.

Oh, as for THESE friends: "Some have even said they don't want to do anything because they don't want to upset her or make it awkward between them. "

You can tell them you don't want to make it awkward between her and them but they have no issue making it awkward between YOU and them? And then tell them to stay out of your life if that is what they feel. SHE is the one that caused this, not you.


----------



## jlg07

stillfightingforus said:


> Perfect example of how my exposure has gone so far. Just got a text back from a mutual friend (woman) and she stated how her heart breaks for this situation but in her response included; "You two are such loving wonderful parents" I think that tells me how this is going to go. No matter what, she will be viewed overall as how they knew her before. They may see her in a bit different light but nothing will change in how they interact with her, etc.


You should respond that you don't think she is a wonderful loving parent -- SHE is the one that put her entire family at risk and is the cause of it breaking up.


----------



## Edmund

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Her Achilles heel is MONEY. Let her know you are prepared to spend whatever it takes to get the outcome you want.
> 
> Leave your current Parrish now. Find another one and get involved and make new friends.
> 
> Work on improving yourself. I know if you dig deep within yourself you can do it.
> 
> Do not worry about what anyone thinks and for the love of God quit talking to her. Ignore her and be cold as ice. Start being unpredictable. Make her wonder what you are up to. For the hell of it put a FSBO in your front yard. This will get realtors knocking on the door wanting to sell your house for you even though you have no intention of selling it.
> 
> Take all photos of her off the wall of your home and tell her you are erasing her from your life.
> 
> Block her number from your cell phone and make her communicate via your lawyer.
> 
> 180 for real. Show your children how a real man takes charge.


LH, if only he would listen to you and do these things.
SFFU, LH is the only person on this whole bulletin board who successfully reconciled with his wife after a seemingly unsolvable situation.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you actually google serial cheaters? There is no way a man with any common sense would even let reconcilliation cross his mind. That you can is an indicator of why she has no respect for you. Women cannot help distancing themselves from weak men. 

Her boyfriend on the other hand is a dog. He takes what he wants. He even plays his women against each other. Your wife’s opinion of you is that you couldn’t get a real woman if you tried.

Go out with some people and get your picture taken wth some women.

Get a junk yard dog lawyer. Go to dadsdivorce.com

Tell your priest you are going to raise your children as Southern Baptisits ( or anything else haha)so they will have a back bone. 

You reap what you sow. How do you like your crop so far? Keep doing what your doing and you will keep getting the same results. 

Tell your kids, f her. She will cheat on whoever she lands with. It’s what serial cheaters do!


----------



## Chaparral

By the way God helps those that help themselves. Leaving things to chance like a govt FOC is beyond stupid. She sounded like a cheater and so does your counselor.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Edmund said:


> LH, if only he would listen to you and do these things.
> SFFU, LH is the only person on this whole bulletin board who successfully reconciled with his wife after a seemingly unsolvable situation.


Crazy. I took advice to heart. 180 is the best method. Works like a charm for me.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> And as far as telling the kids on my own that is my greatest internal conflict right now. I could care less what she thinks, I just want to do what is right by them. STBXW wants to work on it together to tell them together. I don't but I don't know if that's just because I'm angry or I truly believe it's best for the kids that they get the news from me? Would it be out of spite or the best thing, everything I have read has said to tell them together for the kids' benefit but I'm not completely sold on that.


Telling them together is for honest couples who agree on why they are getting divorced. You two are not in that categpory

Your wife wants to claim the marriage failed years ago and now you both are going your separate ways and will remain on friendly terms for the sake of the kids. . She does not even want to tell the kids she cheated. 

That is why you tell your kids now exactly why the marriage failed and you name the other man. Her problem explaining who mommy's new BF is. Just tell them who he is. She can spend the rest of her life explaining why she had a boyfriend fir 7 years while married to daddy. 

That helps your kids to NOT act like them. That is your choice.

If you think she is going to comeback to you because she does not want the kids to know she is a cheater think again. Likes she lies to you she lies to them. She calls it a distraction. 

You claim you wish the best for your kids. Does that include allowing them to learning how to rug-sweep problems and lie? 

.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Perfect example of how my exposure has gone so far. Just got a text back from a mutual friend (woman) and she stated how her heart breaks for this situation but in her response included; "You two are such loving wonderful parents" I think that tells me how this is going to go. No matter what, she will be viewed overall as how they knew her before. They may see her in a bit different light but nothing will change in how they interact with her, etc.


The scarlet letter went out if style. Get over it. Your wife will not be pilloried in public. Get use to that.


----------



## Hexagon

Husband (very soon to be ex husband) of a serial cheater here. 
I understand what you're going through. You're not fighting yourself over the memories of her, you're fighting yourself over who you though she was. 
When I first came here, the people were nice and helpful. Then I started spinning my wheels. 
Surely this can't be happening.
Surely she isn't this cruel and selfish.

No, it was.
Yes, she is.

There is only 1 way you're going to feel better. Just 1.
Stop talking with her.
No matter how illogical. No matter how "out of character" it all seems..
Slowly back up while facing her with your hands up (figuratively) if she is as hostile as mine was but back away anyway. 
Continued contact, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR INTENTIONS, will only result in the same thing.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

lonely husband 42301 said:


> you need quit worrying what other people think. Get your spin out in the open. Mention two affairs.
> 
> I know you are stronger than you realize. Your are paralyzed by fear. Read the chinese parable “maybe so, maybe not”. There is a lesson in there for you.
> 
> If you do not tell the children, given what you posted, she will soon it as your fault and will do her damnedness to make you out to be the bad guy. Is this what you want?
> 
> This is no longer about her. It is about you. Stand up. Be assertive.
> 
> Her achilles heel is money. Let her know you are prepared to spend whatever it takes to get the outcome you want.
> 
> Leave your current parrish now. Find another one and get involved and make new friends.
> 
> Work on improving yourself. I know if you dig deep within yourself you can do it.
> 
> Do not worry about what anyone thinks and for the love of god quit talking to her. Ignore her and be cold as ice. Start being unpredictable. Make her wonder what you are up to. For the hell of it put a fsbo in your front yard. This will get realtors knocking on the door wanting to sell your house for you even though you have no intention of selling it.
> 
> Take all photos of her off the wall of your home and tell her you are erasing her from your life.
> 
> Block her number from your cell phone and make her communicate via your lawyer.
> 
> 180 for real. Show your children how a real man takes charge.



hallelujah!


----------



## Archangel2

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> You need quit worrying what other people think. Get your spin out in the open. Mention two affairs.
> 
> I know you are stronger than you realize. Your are paralyzed by fear. Read the Chinese parable “maybe so, maybe not”. There is a lesson in there for you.
> 
> If you do not tell the children, given what you posted, she will soon it as your fault and will do her damnedness to make you out to be the bad guy. Is this what you want?
> 
> This is no longer about her. It is about you. Stand up. Be assertive.
> 
> Her Achilles heel is MONEY. Let her know you are prepared to spend whatever it takes to get the outcome you want.
> 
> Leave your current Parrish now. Find another one and get involved and make new friends.
> 
> Work on improving yourself. I know if you dig deep within yourself you can do it.
> 
> Do not worry about what anyone thinks and for the love of God quit talking to her. Ignore her and be cold as ice. Start being unpredictable. Make her wonder what you are up to. For the hell of it put a FSBO in your front yard. This will get realtors knocking on the door wanting to sell your house for you even though you have no intention of selling it.
> 
> Take all photos of her off the wall of your home and tell her you are erasing her from your life.
> 
> Block her number from your cell phone and make her communicate via your lawyer.
> 
> 180 for real. Show your children how a real man takes charge.


SFFU - You would do well to model your behavior after LH or Tom72. Going forward, before you do anything, you should ask yourself "What would LH (or Tom72) do?" These two posters have been through hell and back, and they can be a great resource to you, if you let them.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Archangel2 said:


> SFFU - You would do well to model your behavior after LH or Tom72. Going forward, before you do anything, you should ask yourself "What would LH (or Tom72) do?" These two posters have been through hell and back, and they can be a great resource to you, if you let them.


I am afraid he is scared and shaking in his boots. If it had not been for this site I would be on my own and divorce. The advice given here at first seemed counter intuitive, but it works. SFFU, you must disengage and detach. This requires being cold as ice and foregoing interaction with her. As I and many others have told you she is your ENEMY. 
She suffers no repercussions while you shiver like a wet kitten. Man up. Do not mouse out.


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## tom72

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> I am afraid he is scared and shaking in his boots. If it had not been for this site I would be on my own and divorce. The advice given here at first seemed counter intuitive, but it works. SFFU, you must disengage and detach. This requires being cold as ice and foregoing interaction with her. As I and many others have told you she is your ENEMY.
> She suffers no repercussions while you shiver like a wet kitten. Man up. Do not mouse out.


I'm not sure what will make him wakeup.

After all this unnecessary constant pain his gone through, he continues to seek it. His not going to lose the divorce or kids by doing 180 on her, not sure why he just won't do the hard work


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

He is holding onto a sliver of hope that she changes her mind. She sure does not act like a women who is going to change her mind.


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## tom72

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> He is holding onto a sliver of hope that she changes her mind. She sure does not act like a women who is going to change her mind.


It's sad, this has been going on for so long. Not once has he even showed how angry he is about all of it.

She could take him back and he would just rug sweep it. Sad, he deserves so much better then her ****


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## [email protected]

He's a Beta. Scared of his own shadow. Maybe he's a pain shopper too. In his case, any excuse will do.


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## turnera

I believe I tried to tell you about the psychology of women, yes? How they ONLY care about strong men? You say you exposed but apparently you did it in a way as to say 'look guys at what she did - now fix it for me.'

That's not what exposure is for. You expose AND you immediately move to cut her out of your life unless she stops cheating. Period.

You did 1, you skipped 2. What did that cause? It caused you to look like a weak, whiny baby to her. Do you think she would admire a weak, whiny baby man? No, she'll SEE how weak you are and go right to those people and make it clear. 

Have you filed for divorce and custody yet? Have you handed her the papers? No? Then you are still the weak, whiny baby man to her and she has no reason to change.


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## SentHereForAReason

turnera said:


> I believe I tried to tell you about the psychology of women, yes? How they ONLY care about strong men? You say you exposed but apparently you did it in a way as to say 'look guys at what she did - now fix it for me.'
> 
> That's not what exposure is for. You expose AND you immediately move to cut her out of your life unless she stops cheating. Period.
> 
> You did 1, you skipped 2. What did that cause? It caused you to look like a weak, whiny baby to her. Do you think she would admire a weak, whiny baby man? No, she'll SEE how weak you are and go right to those people and make it clear.
> 
> Have you filed for divorce and custody yet? Have you handed her the papers? No? Then you are still the weak, whiny baby man to her and she has no reason to change.


This is a great point. I exposed and hoped their would be a united front against the behavior but that fell apart after a while and even during her recently discovered go around from January to March. No one even really cared by then. 

Divorce process is 2.5 months in with at least another 3.5 months of us living under the same roof. After the first custody info meeting the Friend of the Court said they saw no reason to recommend different than 50/50. I was armed to the teeth with info and evidence but lady could of cared less. That really took the wind out of my sales. 

And as mentioned I have gotten myself in no man's land because after the custody meeting we talked and it took me completely out of the 180 and saying how much it sucked she could never see that the affair ruined any shot at reconciliation. That she wouldn't stop it. I realize I would have better luck getting straight answers from the Joker but i was in a vulnerable state after that custody meeting. Now I'm stuck between 180 and do I just try to have open dialog to resolve some of the issues before we head back to the final custody meeting next month. She used me lowering my walls against me almost immediately.

I thought we were at least on civil terms yesterday. This morning she calls me up and then starts saying that wonders why my son and I couldn't go to church with my daughter and her? I said we had discussed this yesterday and I was going to take him to a train show. I sh** you not. This turned into how could I call her out on what she did when I'm missing church today? It gets better. I sent her a message saying she needs to quit the mind games. I lowered my walls so we could have open dialog and this is the thanks I get? When I got home she approached me and I thought she was going to apologize but then asked me if her response was ok with me. I said I don't know if it's what you intentioned but the way you went about it was an attack. Her response was ... Now you know what it feels like to have your character attacked. (Equating me saying she should not be participating in the liturgy because of her continuous and conscience efforts into the affair to her getting on me for missing church). She is digging deeper than before with the BS and followed it all up with this doozy. "Nobody's perfect". 

I mean I realize what a prize this would be even if she remotely wanted to come back but I have to be so hyper focused on what it's going to make sure the kids are transitioned as best as possible along with me keeping this house. I have to temper what should be done to my WW vs what I need to do for these kids and the house. I have done what I can do to try and get her to leave. I can't do it legally and my attempts to talk her into leaving have gone as well as everything else I have tried. I have about 4 months of living with her so I need to weigh everything before executing.

Bottom line. I'm stuck in the f'ng middle between going back to a full 180 and do I need to keep this civil for my my kids, for my objective s and for what my kids would be proud of me doing 10 years from now.

Factoring all that in .... Any more insight is greatly appreciated. I realize it may be all the same advice I have been given but I hope this paints vividly .... What I am dealing with at this second.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Your setting an example of weakness for your children. They see more than you think. You are being a doormat. Your only response to her when she makes a comment is "sorry you feel that way", and leave it at that. I am afraid that you are going to set a pattern that your sons see and when they get in a relationship they get taken advantage of.

You current behavior is getting you absolutely nowhere from what you post. As I said before, when you are digging yourself a hole, stop digging. Nothing we say seems to register with you. I know this is hard, been there done that so to speak, but you cant play nice with a wayward narcissist. She will lie to you, about you, and would gladly stick a knife in your back again. She is out for her and her only and to hell with you. Right now all you are is one big obstacle. From your posts it is glaringly obvious she is holding the upper hand. Why? Because, SFFU,
you are too scared to do what needs to be done.

She is gone, she is not coming back. Sorry. You deserve better. She is not worth the salt peter to blow her sorry ass to hell. Secondly, go on offense. Do something off the wall she would least expect. Go get a new wardrobe and haircut and start going out in the evening. Does not matter where. Show her you do not need her.

As for church, find a new one. Tell her as long as she is there you will worship somewhere else. If there is no catholic church, find a good protestant one. All the commandments say is remember keep holy the Lord's day.

One of my business associates is a deacon at a large Baptist church , and I will give him and his fellow deacons kudos. He learned the pastor was carrying on an affair with a lady in the congregation and he called him out on it during a church meeting. The pastor confessed to the whole congregation the next Sunday and is now gone.

Your STBX is simply evil.


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> Unfortunately it appears that her manipulation techniques are more effective than I had hoped with others. Part of issue with why I feel lost in this process, is that I exposed .. at first to get help ending the affair and snapping her out of it and 2nd to have her face some consequences. I have exposed to;
> 
> Her Father, Step-Mother
> Her Sister, Brother-In-Law
> Grandparents
> My Brother and Sister
> My Parents
> A Handful Of Family Friends
> Priest
> School Principal
> 
> And out of all of those people this is the breakdown to what has happened.
> 
> - *Of course my family is 100% backing me
> - Her Family was all in on being angry at first but now has since just either wanted to stay out of it or seems to just want to forget it so they can move on with their own lives. Grandparents are back to babying her, sister is staying out of it and is back to a normal relationship with her and my brother-in-law who wanted to give her the ultimate what for (co-worker) seems to have just wanted to move on as well. I can understand all that, that's her flesh and blood.
> - Family Friends were horrified at first but she has since talked to all of them and now they are more, like I just hope the best for you both, they are saddened but want to stay out of it. Some have even said they don't want to do anything because they don't want to upset her or make it awkward between them. The school principal said this as well, which I can understand.
> - Priest seems to be saddened and upset by it all but after I meet him, she meets with him and she's back to attending meetings and doing all of her normal church stuff right after*
> 
> She's a master manipulator, can turn on the tears in seconds and for those few that don't feel bad for her when she goes into her sob story, they are afraid to 'upset' her or cross her.
> 
> So you can see what I'm dealing with. And for exposure, we aren't talking about oh yea, she had an affair and gave they synopsis, I gave those people granular details! Exposure has done nothing for me up until this point but maybe I just haven't exposed to a segment I'm missing or maybe like I had said yesterday, I just need to cut my losses and keep focusing on making sure the kids are alright and fighting for what matters in court.


SFFU - What you don't realize is you have been given a great gift here. You are able to find out who your true friends and supporters are. You do not have to wait till the bitter end to determine who is the wheat and who is the chaff here. Take advantage of it!

Just remember to shake the dust off your feet.


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> Perfect example of how my exposure has gone so far. Just got a text back from a mutual friend (woman) and she stated how her heart breaks for this situation but in her response included; "You two are such loving wonderful parents" I think that tells me how this is going to go...


Another candidate for your chaff pile.


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## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> ..I thought we were at least on civil terms yesterday. This morning she calls me up and then starts saying that wonders why my son and I couldn't go to church with my daughter and her? I said we had discussed this yesterday and I was going to take him to a train show. I sh** you not. This turned into how could I call her out on what she did when I'm missing church today? It gets better. I sent her a message saying she needs to quit the mind games. I lowered my walls so we could have open dialog and this is the thanks I get? When I got home she approached me and I thought she was going to apologize but then asked me if her response was ok with me. I said I don't know if it's what you intentioned but the way you went about it was an attack. Her response was ... Now you know what it feels like to have your character attacked. (Equating me saying she should not be participating in the liturgy because of her continuous and conscience efforts into the affair to her getting on me for missing church). She is digging deeper than before with the BS and followed it all up with this doozy. "Nobody's perfect".
> 
> I mean I realize what a prize this would be even if she remotely wanted to come back but I have to be so hyper focused on what it's going to make sure the kids are transitioned as best as possible along with me keeping this house. I have to temper what should be done to my WW vs what I need to do for these kids and the house. I have done what I can do to try and get her to leave. I can't do it legally and my attempts to talk her into leaving have gone as well as everything else I have tried. I have about 4 months of living with her so I need to weigh everything before executing.
> 
> Bottom line. I'm stuck in the f'ng middle between going back to a full 180 and do I need to keep this civil for my my kids, for my objective s and for what my kids would be proud of me doing 10 years from now.
> 
> Factoring all that in .... Any more insight is greatly appreciated. I realize it may be all the same advice I have been given but I hope this paints vividly .... What I am dealing with at this second...


Time to press the reset button. Just continue to ask yourself, what would LH and Tom72 do?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> Time to press the reset button. Just continue to ask yourself, what would LH and Tom72 do?


Today was a step back in the direction I was headed before my setback in the past week, thankfully. Instead of looking at how crazy the stuff she has been saying over the past few days that got me back in a spin cycle, I'm using it for what it is and to get my focus back. Have had some of my closest confidants knock me over the head as well. Similar stuff to what the fine people here have been saying but in a way they knew it would get to me. Not that the advice here hasn't been clear but the people that know me in the 3D world knew how to get it to sink in.


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> ... Have had some of my closest confidants knock me over the head as well. Similar stuff to what the fine people here have been saying but in a way they knew it would get to me. Not that the advice here hasn't been clear but the people that know me in the 3D world knew how to get it to sink in.


Now you know who is in the wheat pile. Stay close to them!


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## Malaise

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> She is gone, she is not coming back. Sorry. You deserve better.


She's shown who she is and has been for years now. What was behind the mask.

So he shouldn't be sorry she's gone but only that she's wasted so much of his life.


and OP... Keep track of the Switzerland friends, those who want to be neutral, and drop their sorry asses. And tell them why. Don't be wishy washy when telling them.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

stillfightingforus said:


> Today was a step back in the direction I was headed before my setback in the past week, thankfully. Instead of looking at how crazy the stuff she has been saying over the past few days that got me back in a spin cycle, I'm using it for what it is and to get my focus back. Have had some of my closest confidants knock me over the head as well. Similar stuff to what the fine people here have been saying but in a way they knew it would get to me. Not that the advice here hasn't been clear but the people that know me in the 3D world knew how to get it to sink in.


So, are you going to be the man? Step up to the plate and knock her crazy ass off her rocker? She is running the table on you right now. What is it going to be? Man up or Mouse out? The power to do the appropriate actions is within you.


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## Chaparral

So when both of you do go to church, you refuse to sit with her, right? You don’t go in the same car, right? When people ask why you aren’t sitting together you tell them she has had a boyfriend for the last seven years, right?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

If you go to mass this morning to same service. Arrive separate from her, sit separate from her, depart separate from her. Some folks may ask you what is going on and you can say why. She is a cheater.


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## Marc878

The only one keeping you where you are is you.

She may have put you where you are but you are the one keeping you there.

You keep expecting her to be what she is not. Constant dissapointment because you refuse to believe what she's told you and shown you.

Life's hard. It's harder when you give it to someone else to do as they please.

Time for you to wake up or stay where you are. That choice is solely yours.


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## SentHereForAReason

'Good Friday' to you all, wanted to post an update.

Last week she wanted to sit down and talk about making decisions before the court date and seeing if we could figure some things out that wouldn't be decided by the courts and cost money. I am hesitant to talk to her about anything at this point but I got upset with her enough about her constant communication with the affair helper (co-worker of OM, mutual friend and man you helped hide the affair over the summer and helped be the messenger when his wife found out the first time). She started talking to me about how things didn't change and that she tried for a week and a half to have an open mind but I didn't talk to her, same old stuff. I was going to let it be but then told her the reason I don't talk to her about anything is because I'm not going to say anything to her when she's talking to the affair helper, let's call him AH. I told her I overheard the conversation she had on the phone with her sales manager that she admitted she was talking to him but she told the Sales Manager that she was only talking to him on his personal cell and before and after work hours.

The reason this is an issue is because she finally got pulled off of the account that she managed, for the company that employs the OM and AH. To cover their own butts but without even a slap on the wrist, they removed my STBXW from that account and she cannot step foot on their lots around the state because it would infringe upon the salesperson that took over the account. I guess she still showed up on one of the lots where AH was to hang out and was spotted. I have a feeling that OM's Wife is finally got eyes in certain places to watch out. She cried on the phone to the sales manager that she feels she can't even leave her house or do her job without someone tracking her or following her and she wanted IT of her company to check her phone and devices for tracking lol. It's not me, I haven't looked at that phone since the end of December and I'm not tracking her truck or recording her phone calls as she suggested. Anyway, the sales manager believes her, not harm no foul and life goes on for the innocent STBXW in her job.

Back to her communication with AH. I was willing to be more talkative to her during the the process of us still living together about dinners, stuff to do with the kids, etc but once I found out she was back to communication with AH, I went back to a full 180. She says he's just a friend and he isn't a harm to anything, I pointed out his exact harm to the family and the relationship back in late December when he helped facilitate the affair and led to Round 2 between STBXW and OM. She said he has nothing to do with it, just as she says the affair has nothing to do with her feelings or the divorce either but been there and done that talk.

Anyway, back to me getting upset about her communication with AH, I started to walk away and then I just had this urge to talk about the divorce stuff so I walked back down and said ok, let's do it now. I gave her my best off on a parenting schedule, which was essentially a little less than 60/40, me to her in terms of days and nights with the kids. She seemed open to it but that of course changed to a hardened stance a few days later back to 50/50 for her, which is a sticking point and we'll most likely have to go to investigation on. House, we are actually good there, she doesn't want it. My only concern is if I will be able to refi successfully on only my income. I'm planning on taking money from my retirement to give to her for her share of the equity. In my case, at this present time, actually sucks we have a TON of equity in the house. Only 4 years old but we bought the lot outright years ago and put a generous amount of money down. As for possessions, I don't see an issue there, she can have what she wants and I will keep the stuff that is needed to operate the house and the kids' stuff. A big part of me thinks she could care less about the house because she wants a new project. She is very impatient and always has to be busy, it's when she is dormant and doesn't have things to do, when she thinks too much and that's when bad things happen. Plus, from what I saw in the exchanges between her in OM last year, she probably hopes he will help remodel it with her, they had at one time talked about making their own bed, furniture, etc when they were house hunting. My thoughts on OM situation down the page. And finally, probably the best thing out of the convo is that she indicated to me when I asked if she would leave early, she would. The Divorce cannot be final until around Early July. The sooner she leaves, the sooner I can start to heal I think.

OM - honestly, no idea what's going on with him and his wife. I haven't heard from her in exactly 3 weeks. At that point, she had booted him out of the room because he refused to call my STBXW in front of his wife and say it was officially over. He told her he never wanted to be with mine and it was a mistake and AGAIN, for the 2nd time, he was glad he was caught along with 27,000 other lies. My guess is that my STBXW and OM are just biding time for things to cool off again before they being Round 3, or 4 if you count initial affair from 2009. That was actually the last thing OM's Wife asked me was about 2009 because he completely denied that anything had gone on between the two of them then. I have frequent thoughts of when this is all over, of our paths accidently crossing and him accidently bumping into me first and well you can imagine the rest. I tell that scenario to my closest confidants but they don't think it would do any good and point out who really betrayed me and our entire family in all of this ... not him but her. Still I can't and never will hit a woman and he deserves payback for the call he gave me in November  

I'm doing ok, not as good as I was in January and February but doing ok. I can see her for what she is in person, the feeling of disdain inside me but kept internally and on the outside when I'm around her, businesslike and short. Still, when i'm away and have too much time for thinking on my own, the grieving process takes hold. The ideas of what I thought was and was yet to come. To be in love with the image and the hopes and dreams but obviously with anger towards the actual human that I have to live with for the next few months. I'm told that it will get easier when she is gone that, I'm actually living in infidelity at this moment and that's the hardest thing people like me, like us go through in this process. 

The other thing we talked about last week was telling the kids. It is slated for next week while they are on Spring Break. Man, I can't tell you how much I'm dreading that talk. The only good thing I can see from it is that in one way it will be a relief but I'll have to deal with the aftermath for quite some time later but I'm up for it, it's my kids and I will do anything for them no matter how long it takes. The other thing is that we can then begin to stop the charade. The four of us have still been going to church together but after the kids know, I can then start to change those things. I'm sure my STBXW will want the talk to go a certain way but as my counselor has said, she can't control me anymore. She can give the status quo to them but I will give them more of a version of a very sanitized truth. 

None of this makes much sense still, it doesn't become I am extremely logical and rational. But I guess I just need to understand that given the change in emotions and how my STBXW essentially has an alien brain now, what is occurring is logical with what she is. Again, I believe it will be easier to move on and move forward once she is out. It's tough to see the split personalities of someone who doesn't have a care in the world, has justified everything, regretted almost nothing and moves ahead herself as if nothing is wrong and it's just a run on of the mill day. I think a lot of that is she may think by pushing this through as fast as she can, she can hold up her end of the bargain and she has hopes that he will then make his move when the time is 'right'. She was a wreck when she couldn't talk to him and be with him during the work days that early period in January but since the last time his wife found out again in early March, she is pretty even keeled, which tells me something, again there's more than meets the eye.

Each day is a day closer to restoring order and dignity to my household and I guess I can be thankful for that. Sometimes I wish I could be as heartless as she is, to move through each day without a care but maybe it's not so heartless, maybe she just a lot better at me of moving with everyday life and looking at the things that interest her and she enjoys in life without looking back. I'll get there, once I can shed for good, the life I had worked for, earned and lived. Now, my focus is solely on the kids and doing what's best for them and for our future.


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## Marc878

You don't cut her off you'll just continue to wallow in this.

What has talk gotten you?


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## SentHereForAReason

Marc878 said:


> You don't cut her off you'll just continue to wallow in this.
> 
> What has talk gotten you?


Talk now is trying to get me what I want (House, Parenting Time, etc) Other than that, there's not much talk other than see ya. 

Not sure what you mean by cutting her off. We'll both be cut off in a few months but until she leaves, I'll be stuck in this. That's really why I'm talking about the things we need to discuss in court, so maybe we can have an agreement in place and she can JET as soon as possible.


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## Marc878

If you can limit it just to D and the kids good but go no further


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## SentHereForAReason

Marc878 said:


> If you can limit it just to D and the kids good but go no further


Those plus dinner for the family is what is about it.


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## BarbedFenceRider

I agree with marc. Stop idle talk with the XW. She checked out long ago. As for the dinners....It needs to be about YOU and the KIDS. She's a grown azz woman. She can make herself PB&J for all I care. And you should too!

If you were truly 180....You'd be more interested in your future with a better partner, not wallowing and dreaming about the OM and his drama.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Please ask her to vacate now. Quit being her doormat. If you kids are teenagers let them know mom loves POSOM. They need to know the truth. Do not be surprised if they do not already know. YOU DESERVE BETTER.

You seem like a gem of a guy. You will find the right woman. Get into IC, hit the gym, and become a lean mean dating machine. Find a new parish where you do not have to see the self righteous hypocritical stbxw.

Let you legal counsel handle the negotiations. You seem to be willing to give away the store. Stop. Erase her from your life. The sooner the better. She is toxic and let her be POSOMs problem.


----------



## LTCNurse

Please don't expect justice here. We are living in a fallen world where right and wrong just don't matter. The only thing that matters is what behaviors you can live with internally.

Find a new church. Forget proving that your wife was wrong, it doesn't matter to this particular church. This church is dead. Same goes for fence sitters and those who turn against you...buh-bye.

Tell the children alone but leave out details, they are too young. This will not be the last chance they have to observe their Mother's behaviors as right or wrong. She will continue being who she is.

Court won't be "fair" in terms of who destroyed the marriage. They will be "fair" in giving custodial care to both birth Mother and Father. Courts don't even care in cases of domestic violence, they say that domestic violence does not determine that a person is able to be a good parent. That's nuts, but see number one.

I have no idea how you have continued to live in the same house with this bottom dweller. At the outset, I would have put the house up for sale and split the equity. Children don't care much where they live.

Though it goes to say, "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he grows old, he won't depart from it", every human being chooses good or evil and your children will be the same. Do your best and realize that if you love them, one day they may still choose evil ways. Parenting is not for cowards. Betrayals by children are far more painful than a spouse in my experience.

You really are doing quite well here considering that you are going through the grieving process. Hindsight is, indeed, 20/20. You are getting good advice here but this is the first time YOU have ever been through this experience.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

SSFU, she is playing you like a violin. Manipulation extraordinaire! STOP THIS INSANITY NOW. Quit talking to her. For some reason none of the advice you have received reasonates with you. We sit back and watch her roll right over you. She is gone, she is not your friend, she is narcissistic, self absorbed, and delusional, yet she is running circles around you in my opinion from your post.

Money is her weakness from your posts she is concerned about “costs”. **** her! She has shown her weakness....$$$$$. Stake out an outrageous position and let her know you are will to piss it all away to ensure you get what you want. Be inflexible with her. Have some fun. Make her squirm like the worm she is.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> SSFU, she is playing you like a violin. Manipulation extraordinaire! STOP THIS INSANITY NOW. Quit talking to her. For some reason none of the advice you have received reasonates with you. We sit back and watch her roll right over you. She is gone, she is not your friend, she is narcissistic, self absorbed, and delusional, yet she is running circles around you in my opinion from your post.
> 
> Money is her weakness from your posts she is concerned about “costs”. **** her! She has shown her weakness....$$$$$. Stake out an outrageous position and let her know you are will to piss it all away to ensure you get what you want. Be inflexible with her. Have some fun. Make her squirm like the worm she is.


Emotionally she may run circles around me because it's been harder for me to disengage feelings although it gets better everyday. Systematically she won't however because I can compartmentalize. Throughout this entire process I have made many missteps from an emotional or care standpoint but I still have been able to carry out what my main objectives are above all else. That's securing the kids as much as possible and securing their main residence. She can run circles around me all she wants but in a few months she can run them without ANY contact from me. 

Damn shame I have to focus on this nonsense. My grandfather passed away yesterday and I'm not sure if my mind and body are so numb I couldn't properly grieve or if we all were just happy he made it to almost 94, an extra 30 years when he should have died in 1988 when by luck he was in the hospital when he had cardiac arrest. Served in WWII on the Eastern Front, Marched With MLK, met JFK when he was running for president and so many more stories. Sorry, got sidetracked there a little bit but he lived the most interesting life I've ever known.


----------



## Marc878

stillfightingforus said:


> Those plus dinner for the family is what is about it.


She's not part of your family anymore. All activities should be separate.

Your kids will get hope then Disappointed that you aren't getting back together. Don't do this to them.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

stillfightingforus said:


> Emotionally she may run circles around me because it's been harder for me to disengage feelings although it gets better everyday. Systematically she won't however because I can compartmentalize. Throughout this entire process I have made many missteps from an emotional or care standpoint but I still have been able to carry out what my main objectives are above all else. That's securing the kids as much as possible and securing their main residence. She can run circles around me all she wants but in a few months she can run them without ANY contact from me.
> 
> Damn shame I have to focus on this nonsense. My grandfather passed away yesterday and I'm not sure if my mind and body are so numb I couldn't properly grieve or if we all were just happy he made it to almost 94, an extra 30 years when he should have died in 1988 when by luck he was in the hospital when he had cardiac arrest. Served in WWII on the Eastern Front, Marched With MLK, met JFK when he was running for president and so many more stories. Sorry, got sidetracked there a little bit but he lived the most interesting life I've ever known.


My sympathies, as I know what my granddads meant to me. Eastern front? Was he US, German, Polish,or other allied country? Very cool he met JFK and stood up against segregation. Wow! I will bet he was a fine example off what a man should be and how he should conduct oneself. Never forget.

My moms dad came over from Germany in the 30s and fought against Germany, my wife’s dad was a naval aviator who was awarded th DFC in WWII, and my dads dad was in WWI. He swore that when the Germans knew he enlisted in Late September of 18,they decided to surrender in November. Each of them put me to shame as my military service does not hold a candle to theirs. They were tougher than nails and I should think your grandad was, too.

I am sorry you have had to deal with this along with your STBXW. 180, focus on you, and to hell with her>

An Irish toast to STBXW:

“Here’s to you, and here’s to me. And at some point should we disagree. To hell with you, but here’s to me,


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> My sympathies, as I know what my granddads meant to me. *Eastern front? Was he US, German, Polish,or other allied country? *Very cool he met JFK and stood up against segregation. Wow! I will bet he was a fine example off what a man should be and how he should conduct oneself. Never forget.
> 
> My moms dad came over from Germany in the 30s and fought against Germany, my wife’s dad was a naval aviator who was awarded th DFC in WWII, and my dads dad was in WWI. He swore that when the Germans knew he enlisted in Late September of 18,they decided to surrender in November. Each of them put me to shame as my military service does not hold a candle to theirs. They were tougher than nails and I should think your grandad was, too.
> 
> I am sorry you have had to deal with this along with your STBXW. 180, focus on you, and to hell with her>
> 
> An Irish toast to STBXW:
> 
> “Here’s to you, and here’s to me. And at some point should we disagree. To hell with you, but here’s to me,


He was actually born in Canada. His father sailed over from England and settled in Canada but moved to the US/Michigan when my Grandpa was a young child. From what my Dad says, his Grandpa was a mean SOB he didn't really care for  Rubbed off a bit on my Grandpa until his wife died. My dad actually went to Vietnam to get away from his dad, my grandpa. His Mom died when he was overseas and had to fly back for the funeral and then head back to the jungle after that. The death of my dad's mom completely changed my grandpa in terms of his personality .... for the good and he repaired his relationship with his kids and went on to be one of the kindest souls I ever met.

I love history, great to hear stories like yours and those from my dad and grandpa.


----------



## Archangel2

SFFU - I am very sorry for your loss. I hope you use the example of your grandfather to steel yourself against the manipulation of the witch and make it to a great new life.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> SFFU - I am very sorry for your loss. I hope you use the example of your grandfather to steel yourself against the manipulation of the witch and make it to a great new life.


Thank you!


----------



## Archangel2

SFFU - On another note, when talking with your kids, don't be surprised if they are not shocked by your revelation.

When my nephew and his wife divorced several years ago, their 5 year old daughter told her grandmother (my sister) that "not all people can stay married." My sister guessed that her granddaughter must have been exposed to children of divorce in her school. Unless your kids are in a Catholic school, they may have had the same experience, especially if they can detect the tension between you and the STBXW.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> SFFU - On another note, when talking with your kids, don't be surprised if they are not shocked by your revelation.
> 
> When my nephew and his wife divorced several years ago, their 5 year old daughter told her grandmother (my sister) that "not all people can stay married." My sister guessed that her granddaughter must have been exposed to children of divorce in her school. Unless your kids are in a Catholic school, they may have had the same experience, especially if they can detect the tension between you and the STBXW.


Both kids are in Catholic School, the school that's tied to the Parish we belong to. Son is in his last of 8 years there (Pre-5th Grade), Daughter is in her 4th year there. Of their close friends, on my son's side all of his close friends have both bio parents, think just one in the whole class has divorced parents. On my daughter's side, one of her closest friends is the only child and of a divorce, all other close friends have bio parents. 

But I get the drift A2, I have actually had 2 other people tell me that in the last week.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Emulate your grandads strength. Distance yourself from STBXW and the negative aura that surrounds her. I am a firm believer in karma, as one reaps what the sow. My motto, with the exception of POSOM, is be kind to everyone the ass you kick today, is the one you will likely be kissing tomorrow,


----------



## SentHereForAReason

180-detaching Question?

So as we move forward, she seems to be changing her tune as far as staying until everything is finalized and is now moving quickly at getting out and house hunting, getting into a new place in the very near future, maybe even within the next month? Seems quite odd, maybe she can't stand me that much lol or maybe she thinks the sooner she can do this, the sooner, the soulmate will leave his wife? But I digress ....

Question is that she keeps saying "I know you want me out as soon as possible, want me to leave, etc" Just another attempt at self justification and a relief of guilt I'm sure but I have basically ignored what she says and get to the heart of answering the question. This morning, she made that comment when talking about me taking over the house but making sure I can get qualified for it in my name alone. I just responded that I would call the mortgage company at that was it. I wanted to point out that she keeps saying that I want her to leave. I wanted to respond, that you keep saying that ... I just don't want to keep people here that don't want to be here. 

When she makes these comments to make herself feel better, etc. Do I just let them go or call her on it?

It's all coming to a head soon. Kids will be told Friday, another meeting with Friend of the Court a week from Today and then things escalating from there. I'm figuring out bills and budgets, etc. I'm moving along and doing what needs to be done but damn ... does this suck. 3 Peoples' lives turned upside down for 1 that wants to be 'happy'.

And I must say, pretty damn ironic that our Easter Vigil Mass's homily was based upon the concept of 'dying to self' and 'living for self'. Amazing she can sit there and listen and not see herself as the heart of this conversation. Loved the message though and the long term rewards for those that die to self and the perils of those, in the future, that live for self.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

stillfightingforus said:


> 180-detaching Question?
> 
> So as we move forward, she seems to be changing her tune as far as staying until everything is finalized and is now moving quickly at getting out and house hunting, getting into a new place in the very near future, maybe even within the next month? Seems quite odd, maybe she can't stand me that much lol or maybe she thinks the sooner she can do this, the sooner, the soulmate will leave his wife? But I digress ....
> 
> Question is that she keeps saying "I know you want me out as soon as possible, want me to leave, etc" Just another attempt at self justification and a relief of guilt I'm sure but I have basically ignored what she says and get to the heart of answering the question. This morning, she made that comment when talking about me taking over the house but making sure I can get qualified for it in my name alone. I just responded that I would call the mortgage company at that was it. I wanted to point out that she keeps saying that I want her to leave. I wanted to respond, that you keep saying that ... I just don't want to keep people here that don't want to be here.
> 
> When she makes these comments to make herself feel better, etc. Do I just let them go or call her on it?
> 
> It's all coming to a head soon. Kids will be told Friday, another meeting with Friend of the Court a week from Today and then things escalating from there. I'm figuring out bills and budgets, etc. I'm moving along and doing what needs to be done but damn ... does this suck. 3 Peoples' lives turned upside down for 1 that wants to be 'happy'.
> 
> And I must say, pretty damn ironic that our Easter Vigil Mass's homily was based upon the concept of 'dying to self' and 'living for self'. Amazing she can sit there and listen and not see herself as the heart of this conversation. Loved the message though and the long term rewards for those that die to self and the perils of those, in the future, that live for self.


Happy Easter and God bless. And as for the 180...You need to look to yourself. Not what your ex is doing. In all your comments, you mention 180, but you say "she did this" or "she said that"...It needs to come from a point that : During 180, "I am doing this" and " I am moving forward with this"....

Until then, you will find it hard to detach. You ex is using blame-shifting speak to paint herself in a more humble position. IT DOESN'T MATTER to you. You are moving on and getting out of infidelity. She is toxic to you and your kids. She put the family into this hole. You just decided to get out of it. Who cares about anything else...Stay strong. Live well.


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> 180-detaching Question?
> 
> So as we move forward, she seems to be changing her tune as far as staying until everything is finalized and is now moving quickly at getting out and house hunting, getting into a new place in the very near future, maybe even within the next month? Seems quite odd, maybe she can't stand me that much lol or maybe she thinks the sooner she can do this, the sooner, the soulmate will leave his wife? But I digress ....
> 
> Question is that she keeps saying "I know you want me out as soon as possible, want me to leave, etc" Just another attempt at self justification and a relief of guilt I'm sure but I have basically ignored what she says and get to the heart of answering the question. This morning, she made that comment when talking about me taking over the house but making sure I can get qualified for it in my name alone. I just responded that I would call the mortgage company at that was it. I wanted to point out that she keeps saying that I want her to leave. I wanted to respond, that you keep saying that ... I just don't want to keep people here that don't want to be here.
> 
> When she makes these comments to make herself feel better, etc. Do I just let them go or call her on it?
> 
> It's all coming to a head soon. Kids will be told Friday, another meeting with Friend of the Court a week from Today and then things escalating from there. I'm figuring out bills and budgets, etc. I'm moving along and doing what needs to be done but damn ... does this suck. 3 Peoples' lives turned upside down for 1 that wants to be 'happy'.
> 
> And I must say, pretty damn ironic that our Easter Vigil Mass's homily was based upon the concept of 'dying to self' and 'living for self'. Amazing she can sit there and listen and not see herself as the heart of this conversation. Loved the message though and the long term rewards for those that die to self and the perils of those, in the future, that live for self.


Just let the comments go, all she is doing is trying to get you to engage. If you tell her you want her out tomorrow she will just reinforce in her head this was all meant to be or such nonsense or she's fishing for to to tell her to wait longer and she can stroke her own ego and get you back to wallowing. Either way it's lose/lose for you because the comments lead to yet another discussion which leads you back into the black hole of focusing on her.


----------



## Chuck71

Next time she mentions having to move out so quick..... reply in teenage baby talk "Please go bye-bye."

Smile, leave the room. Say nothing, listen to nothing. 

Walk around like you're giddy.... leave magazines around detailing things like "mancaves," "pool tables," 

and "surround sound stereos." And learn a Top 40 current song... and sing it while at home.

Smile when you sing


----------



## BluesPower

stillfightingforus said:


> I wanted to point out that she keeps saying that I want her to leave. I wanted to respond, that you keep saying that ... I just don't want to keep people here that don't want to be here.
> 
> When she makes these comments to make herself feel better, etc. Do I just let them go or call her on it?


Dude, who gives a s***. This kind of thinking, co-dependence, and "care" about your wife is one of the reasons that you allowed her to cheat on you for so long. 

My brother, I understand that it is hard, but she needs to be DEAD to you. You get it, DEAD, GONE, CAN'T REMEMBER HER NAME ANYMORE DEAD!!!!

How may times do you need to get kicked in the balls by her to understand that you were a fool to love her, and a fool for staying with her this long. 

YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON! YOU NEVER DESERVED ANY OF THE CRAP THAT SHE PUT YOU THROUGH! SHE IS A SICK AND BROKEN PERSON THAT HAS BEEN PLAYING WITH YOU LIKE A CAT PLAYS WITH A MOUSE BEFORE IT KILLS THE MOUSE. 

And look, I am sorry for yelling, but you have got to wake up and get her away from you. And when her other man dumps her...

DO NOT EVEN TALK TO HER WHEN SHE COMES SNIFFING AROUND...


----------



## SentHereForAReason

BluesPower said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to point out that she keeps saying that I want her to leave. I wanted to respond, that you keep saying that ... I just don't want to keep people here that don't want to be here.
> 
> When she makes these comments to make herself feel better, etc. Do I just let them go or call her on it?
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, who gives a s***. This kind of thinking, co-dependence, and "care" about your wife is one of the reasons that you allowed her to cheat on you for so long.
> 
> My brother, I understand that it is hard, but she needs to be DEAD to you. You get it, DEAD, GONE, CAN'T REMEMBER HER NAME ANYMORE DEAD!!!!
> 
> How may times do you need to get kicked in the balls by her to understand that you were a fool to love her, and a fool for staying with her this long.
> 
> YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON! YOU NEVER DESERVED ANY OF THE CRAP THAT SHE PUT YOU THROUGH! SHE IS A SICK AND BROKEN PERSON THAT HAS BEEN PLAYING WITH YOU LIKE A CAT PLAYS WITH A MOUSE BEFORE IT KILLS THE MOUSE.
> 
> And look, I am sorry for yelling, but you have got to wake up and get her away from you. And when her other man dumps her...
> 
> DO NOT EVEN TALK TO HER WHEN SHE COMES SNIFFING AROUND...
Click to expand...

Going to be difficult because we will have to coordinate kids stuff, pickups, dropoffs, etc. Not sure how to completely break from her face and voice and make sure that stuff is taken care of. Wish I could just ghost every aspect of her.


----------



## Chuck71

stillfightingforus said:


> Going to be difficult because we will have to coordinate kids stuff, pickups, dropoffs, etc. Not sure how to completely break from her face and voice and make sure that stuff is taken care of. Wish I could just ghost every aspect of her.


act-shually it ayn't


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## SentHereForAReason

Tomorrow night is the night, the time I have dreaded for some time now. The moment their lives change forever. I have thought about this day for months and dedicated many of my counseling sessions on how to handle this and what to tell them but I still am at a loss for how to put my own personal spin on this.

The advice here gets as blatant as telling them Mom has a BF to what i get in the real world with people telling me the kids should know nothing about us and the situation that caused this but just talk about the love for them and it's not their fault etc.

This is my talk outline so far;
- Have you (kids) noticed anything different lately?
- Wanted To Talk To you About Changes (None of it is your fault, etc)
- Things that Will Be Changing (Different Houses, Alternating Weekends, still working on weekday schedules)
- Reaffirm Love and Commitment (To Kids)
- Questions (now) and assure them will answer questions and concerns they have throughout

What I want to fit into there somewhere is my personal spin, just don't know if it offers the value to them that I think it does. The notion that I didn't give up and what marriage is about (putting yourself before your husband/wife, choosing them everyday, keeping commitment, promises, etc.)

I don't know, I just don't know about my personal touch into it. I sent the outline to WW because she wanted to talk about it and I have been hesitant to do so up until this point because I don't want her to control this like she tries to do with everything else.


----------



## GusPolinski

How old are the kids?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

GusPolinski said:


> How old are the kids?


Son will be 11 in June. Daughter turned 7 in January.


----------



## Affaircare

@stillfightingforus, 

I am going to chime in here, because as a mom of 7, I want to remind you that children are not stupid. They are watching both of you, and they KNOW that something is wrong. They also are learning from you how to tell the truth and when...and who they can trust and who they can't. 

Thus, I STRONGLY urge you to take a tactic that does not cut down their mom, but is honest to a degree that is appropriate for a child. They do not understand all that is involved in a marriage kind of relationship--they aren't adults and don't have reference for that--but they do know right from wrong, and even a very young child knows that a mom and a dad should love each other and only each other. 

If you try to protect them from the truth, what children tend to do is to think that somehow it was them...something they did or didn't do. They'll think they were naughty, or that whichever parent left doesn't love them anymore. Soooo...it is vitally important (in my personal opinion) to address this in some way. AND it is not appropriate to say "Well, your mom and I fell out of love and we just don't get along" (which is the :bsflag: that many wayward spouses want to say). That is just NOT TRUE...and how often have you told your children that they have to figure out how to get along with the kid at school that's picking on them...or work it out with the teacher who doesn't fancy them? If THEY have to figure out a way to get along, why would you and mom not be held to the same standard? Clearly you're lying and they will learn that they can't trust you!

Thus I do recommend all you mentioned--reassuring them that it's not them and that you both love them very much and will both still be their parents. But in order to establish that you will always be honest with them and to talk to them about right and wrong, I think it's utterly appropriate to say something like "We are going to divorce, and it is because I don't believe a mom or dad should have a boyfriend or girlfriend. I believe when people get married they promise in front of God to only love each other. I can't speak for what your mom believes--that's her job to tell you--but I can say that I think promises are important and I keep them." 

See what I mean? It doesn't dig at her--you just talk about YOU and what you think and believe. And it teaches them that you'll be honest, you won't break your promises, you believe in fidelity, and it wasn't just "we couldn't get along" but something of a deeper belief. From the perspective of right and wrong, it will make sense to them. 

And frankly, what your wife did is wrong--and I say that from the point of view of someone who has made that choice and repented! The kids have a right to know the truth of why THEIR home and lives are being torn upside down, and if they are angry with their mom for what she REALLY DID DO...why that is a natural consequence of what she chose to do! She chose to act in a way that resulted in their lives being greatly damaged, and the natural consequence of hurting someone is that sometimes they are angry at you--appropriately. 

So please, tell the truth. Focus on YOU and what you believe, and don't speak for her. But don't participate in covering up adultery. Shine a light on it.


----------



## seadoug105

Affaircare said:


> @stillfightingforus,
> 
> I am going to chime in here, because as a mom of 7, I want to remind you that children are not stupid. They are watching both of you, and they KNOW that something is wrong. They also are learning from you how to tell the truth and when...and who they can trust and who they can't.
> 
> Thus, I STRONGLY urge you to take a tactic that does not cut down their mom, but is honest to a degree that is appropriate for a child. They do not understand all that is involved in a marriage kind of relationship--they aren't adults and don't have reference for that--but they do know right from wrong, and even a very young child knows that a mom and a dad should love each other and only each other.
> 
> If you try to protect them from the truth, what children tend to do is to think that somehow it was them...something they did or didn't do. They'll think they were naughty, or that whichever parent left doesn't love them anymore. Soooo...it is vitally important (in my personal opinion) to address this in some way. AND it is not appropriate to say "Well, your mom and I fell out of love and we just don't get along" (which is the :bsflag: that many wayward spouses want to say). That is just NOT TRUE...and how often have you told your children that they have to figure out how to get along with the kid at school that's picking on them...or work it out with the teacher who doesn't fancy them? If THEY have to figure out a way to get along, why would you and mom not be held to the same standard? Clearly you're lying and they will learn that they can't trust you!
> 
> Thus I do recommend all you mentioned--reassuring them that it's not them and that you both love them very much and will both still be their parents. But in order to establish that you will always be honest with them and to talk to them about right and wrong, I think it's utterly appropriate to say something like "We are going to divorce, and it is because I don't believe a mom or dad should have a boyfriend or girlfriend. I believe when people get married they promise in front of God to only love each other. I can't speak for what your mom believes--that's her job to tell you--but I can say that I think promises are important and I keep them."
> 
> See what I mean? It doesn't dig at her--you just talk about YOU and what you think and believe. And it teaches them that you'll be honest, you won't break your promises, you believe in fidelity, and it wasn't just "we couldn't get along" but something of a deeper belief. From the perspective of right and wrong, it will make sense to them.
> 
> And frankly, what your wife did is wrong--and I say that from the point of view of someone who has made that choice and repented! The kids have a right to know the truth of why THEIR home and lives are being torn upside down, and if they are angry with their mom for what she REALLY DID DO...why that is a natural consequence of what she chose to do! She chose to act in a way that resulted in their lives being greatly damaged, and the natural consequence of hurting someone is that sometimes they are angry at you--appropriately.
> 
> So please, tell the truth. Focus on YOU and what you believe, and don't speak for her. But don't participate in covering up adultery. Shine a light on it.



I agree with Affaircare!

However if you choose not to mention anything about the WW's AP..... If they ask, and they might cuz kids at school talk about their parents D.... BE HONEST... age appropriate, but honest!

And to double down on Affaircare's last comments... It's not your job to cover up her affair!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

For my own personal touch, this is what I have so far;

"I believe in marriage. Marriage is about promises that you make to each other and to God. Over time everyone changes and that’s a good thing as we grow. A marriage takes 2 people fully committed to each other, each and every day. It’s not easy and that’s why a lot of marriages end but it’s worth the effort. But sometimes people can change so much that they can no longer keep these promises."


----------



## Edmund

stillfightingforus said:


> For my own personal touch, this is what I have so far;
> 
> 
> 
> "I believe in marriage. Marriage is about promises that you make to each other and to God. Over time everyone changes and that’s a good thing as we grow. A marriage takes 2 people fully committed to each other, each and every day. It’s not easy and that’s why a lot of marriages end but it’s worth the effort. But sometimes people can change so much that they can no longer keep these promises."



No! Boo hiss! You are going to cover for your wife committing adultery! You are going to tell them it is OK for a person to break sacred vows and cause hurt and misery if they “change” over time! A person can keep their promises no matter how much they change!! SFFU I am so disappointed in you.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Edmund said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> For my own personal touch, this is what I have so far;
> 
> 
> 
> "I believe in marriage. Marriage is about promises that you make to each other and to God. Over time everyone changes and that’s a good thing as we grow. A marriage takes 2 people fully committed to each other, each and every day. It’s not easy and that’s why a lot of marriages end but it’s worth the effort. But sometimes people can change so much that they can no longer keep these promises."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No! Boo hiss! You are going to cover for your wife committing adultery! You are going to tell them it is OK for a person to break sacred vows and cause hurt and misery if they “change” over time! A person can keep their promises no matter how much they change!! SFFU I am so disappointed in you.
Click to expand...

Nothing set in stone yet. 24 hours and ticking til I have my say though


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Nothing set in stone yet. 24 hours and ticking til I have my say though


Let me guess. Your wife is demanding you agree on the statement.


----------



## Tron

stillfightingforus said:


> For my own personal touch, this is what I have so far;
> 
> "I believe in marriage. Marriage is about promises that you make to each other and to God. Over time everyone changes and that’s a good thing as we grow. A marriage takes 2 people fully committed to each other, each and every day. It’s not easy and that’s why a lot of marriages end but it’s worth the effort. But sometimes people can change so much that they can no longer keep these promises."


WTF does that mean? Hmmm, let me see...	:scratchhead:	:scratchhead:

Follow me here: "Change" is good. It's ok to not keep "forever" promises like marrying somebody if you "change" alot. So, follow this, not keeping promises to each other and God is therefore good, so long as you change alot.

Are you sure that is the message you want to send?

Because there isn't anything good about what your W has done. Why sugar coat it with a bunch of BS? Affaircare set it out for you perfectly. Follow that and you can leave that conversation with your head held high and honor intact.


----------



## Marc878

I've seen this before. Don't lie to your kids. Tell them the truth in a sanitized way.

two guys I know stood up lied to their kids became co conspirators to their way wards. Then ended up hating and regretting it after the other man was introduced quickly to their kids.

You want to be a disrespected beat down guy this will do it for you.

WTF do you owe her?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Marc878 said:


> I've seen this before. Don't lie to your kids. Tell them the truth in a sanitized way.
> 
> two guys I know stood up lied to their kids became co conspirators to their way wards. Then ended up hating and regretting it after the other man was introduced quickly to their kids.
> 
> You want to be a disrespected beat down guy this will do it for you.
> 
> WTF do you owe her?


Nothing but just trying to do the best for my kids. If it involves status quo I would do it, if it involves a santized truth in would do it. Just trying to find the middle ground I suppose. Don't want it used against me on our friend of the court meeting next week but they already told us pretty much what they would recommend and it's 5050


----------



## turnera

stillfightingforus said:


> Going to be difficult because we will have to coordinate kids stuff, pickups, dropoffs, etc. Not sure how to completely break from her face and voice and make sure that stuff is taken care of. Wish I could just ghost every aspect of her.


Ok, NOW you're just plain lying. Set up an online calendar. Write out all plans and let her counteract them, and agree on something, and you'll never even have to speak to her again.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Let me guess. Your wife is demanding you agree on the statement.


She wanted to talk about it between us and I really didn't. I said I'll send you an outline and that's what I did. I sent her the vanilla outline, 5 line items without what I'm going to say that comes from me and the heart.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

turnera said:


> Ok, NOW you're just plain lying. Set up an online calendar. Write out all plans and let him counteract them, and agree on something, and you'll never even have to speak to her again.


Sounds good to me. For pickups and dropoffs we should be good for the most part. I will pick up daugther from after school care and my son will be at his cousin's after he gets out of school. Just another one of the $&itty things in all this is son will be starting Middle School in the Fall, heck of a time to enter a whole new world but maybe good to get it all done at once, who knows. I'm just going to tackle is at it comes at me and try to do everything I can to make this transition as painless as possible.


----------



## turnera

Something that Marriage Builders suggests is finding an 'intermediary' -meaning a person who will be your go-between for all communications and all interactions. So that person reads her emails and then decides which ones you need to know about. And also is the person watching the kids until she picks them up and vice versa.


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> Nothing but just trying to do the best for my kids. If it involves status quo I would do it, if it involves a santized truth in would do it. Just trying to find the middle ground I suppose. Don't want it used against me on our friend of the court meeting next week but they already told us pretty much what they would recommend and it's 5050


You already know the friend of the court is going to recommend 50/50 and nothing your stbx says can be used against you especially when it's the truth. A sanitized truth is what's best for the kids right now. It's going to hurt them yes but divorce hurts and it's better to get it out than trickle truthing them and hurting them over and over. 

Your stbx won't like it, too bad.


----------



## Archangel2

Affaircare said:


> @stillfightingforus,
> 
> 
> 
> Thus I do recommend all you mentioned--reassuring them that it's not them and that you both love them very much and will both still be their parents. But in order to establish that you will always be honest with them and to talk to them about right and wrong, I think it's utterly appropriate to say something like
> 
> *"We are going to divorce, and it is because I don't believe a mom or dad should have a boyfriend or girlfriend. I believe when people get married they promise in front of God to only love each other. I can't speak for what your mom believes--that's her job to tell you--but I can say that I think promises are important and I keep them." *
> 
> See what I mean? It doesn't dig at her--you just talk about YOU and what you think and believe. And it teaches them that you'll be honest, you won't break your promises, you believe in fidelity, and it wasn't just "we couldn't get along" but something of a deeper belief. From the perspective of right and wrong, it will make sense to them.
> 
> And frankly, what your wife did is wrong--and I say that from the point of view of someone who has made that choice and repented! The kids have a right to know the truth of why THEIR home and lives are being torn upside down, and if they are angry with their mom for what she REALLY DID DO...why that is a natural consequence of what she chose to do! She chose to act in a way that resulted in their lives being greatly damaged, and the natural consequence of hurting someone is that sometimes they are angry at you--appropriately.
> 
> So please, tell the truth. Focus on YOU and what you believe, and don't speak for her. But don't participate in covering up adultery. Shine a light on it.


SFFU - FWIW, You should follow Affaircare's advice and use her words (in bold) above. Good luck!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Welp ... even more true colors were shown last night. We were supposed to tell kids tonight but she didn't want to until we have parenting time agreed upon and she will accept nothing less than 50/50. This escalated into a 2 hour discussion that went many dark places, 2 hours I'll never get back of my life. People said it would get nasty and I hadn't even begun to see the worse of her, well I think that came out with a vengeance last night. I have put everything on hold until I talk to my lawyer on Monday. Highlights of the talk last night.

- If I go from primary custody, she will go for primary custody
- She will pursue action against 'felonies' I committed by getting into her work phone in December when I found out EVERYTHING
- It's only fair that she get 50/50 and that I'm not the primary parent even though I spent the most time with them (my plan is like 55/45)
- I was allowed to spend that much time with the kids because she did all the cleaning, cooking and housework (uhh no)
- We would have gotten divorced anyway, the affair had nothing to do with this situation
- she brought up communication and how we just couldn't communicate and aren't right for each other and I didn't talk to her (I can't tell you how many times I would go to her and just try to say small talk and she would not pay attention, how many times she would say she didn't care to talk about that or would interrupt me when I was talking, all of these things made it like pulling teeth to start up conversations with her, like anything else, communication happened when she wanted it to happen, same with sex, where we went and everything else.)
- She accused me of acting like I'm perfect and did nothing wrong, said I caused her years of pain because of my gambling (mind you, this was something in 2001 when I was doing online sports betting, to the tone of a few $hundred dollars) and that she was deeply hurt when she asked me to pick my business or her (this was when we were going through issues in 2008, counseling, etc)
- I said those were things that were things I was sorry for but way in the past in terms of we got past them and thought we were happy and good to go, that was 10 years and 17 years ago. I told her things she had said over the years after that, that indicated we were good. I said, were you just lying then? She said yes, she was lying to make herself feel better
- When I told her about the time she had spent away from the kids for running, pampered chef, church meetings, volleyball and everything else, her comeback was she had a life and was healthy and that I didn't live a healthy life and it's not her fault I choose to be at home and spend my time playing with the kids. She said, you should hear about all the things she turns down after work to be with the kids and it's affecting her job. 
- Told her I still hope she ends up doing the right things eventually because the course she is heading on, is the opposite of that (talking about the felonies things, etc), there's good in her still somewhere but the past year has brought out the worst in you. Her response to that was the past year brought out the worst in me too (alluding to my spying, snooping, etc)
- just like anything else in her life all throughout her life, if she's not going to get her way, she's going to throw a fit and she's not going to back down even if it's by un-righteous means

Just more of same BS that I try to avoid but I thought we were just going to talk about telling the kid and it evolved into that madness. 

I'm keeping my mouth shut for the next few days and heading into a meeting with my lawyer on Monday that will determine a lot of where I go from here. The only recourse I had when I tried to keep it righteous was that I cannot believe she can do these things and say these things and still go to church to look at me and say these things in front of God as I pointed to the sky. She just shakes her head and accuses me of trying to act like I'm a better person than her. 

Prepared for you guys to read me the riot act but also, Monday can't come soon enough. I need to get as far away from this toxicity as soon as possible but I'm not leaving my kids. Need to get the lowdown from lawyer and the proceed with caution but will not back down. I have a feeling the worst it yet to come. When I was a kid, I would always daydream about me being in this good vs. evil epic battle for humanity. Never did I think that the battle would be me vs. the person I would've taken a bullet for.


----------



## tom72

stillfightingforus said:


> Welp ... even more true colors were shown last night. We were supposed to tell kids tonight but she didn't want to until we have parenting time agreed upon and she will accept nothing less than 50/50. This escalated into a 2 hour discussion that went many dark places, 2 hours I'll never get back of my life. People said it would get nasty and I hadn't even begun to see the worse of her, well I think that came out with a vengeance last night. I have put everything on hold until I talk to my lawyer on Monday. Highlights of the talk last night.
> 
> - If I go from primary custody, she will go for primary custody
> - She will pursue action against 'felonies' I committed by getting into her work phone in December when I found out EVERYTHING
> - It's only fair that she get 50/50 and that I'm not the primary parent even though I spent the most time with them (my plan is like 55/45)
> - I was allowed to spend that much time with the kids because she did all the cleaning, cooking and housework (uhh no)
> - We would have gotten divorced anyway, the affair had nothing to do with this situation
> - she brought up communication and how we just couldn't communicate and aren't right for each other and I didn't talk to her (I can't tell you how many times I would go to her and just try to say small talk and she would not pay attention, how many times she would say she didn't care to talk about that or would interrupt me when I was talking, all of these things made it like pulling teeth to start up conversations with her, like anything else, communication happened when she wanted it to happen, same with sex, where we went and everything else.)
> - She accused me of acting like I'm perfect and did nothing wrong, said I caused her years of pain because of my gambling (mind you, this was something in 2001 when I was doing online sports betting, to the tone of a few $hundred dollars) and that she was deeply hurt when she asked me to pick my business or her (this was when we were going through issues in 2008, counseling, etc)
> - I said those were things that were things I was sorry for but way in the past in terms of we got past them and thought we were happy and good to go, that was 10 years and 17 years ago. I told her things she had said over the years after that, that indicated we were good. I said, were you just lying then? She said yes, she was lying to make herself feel better
> - When I told her about the time she had spent away from the kids for running, pampered chef, church meetings, volleyball and everything else, her comeback was she had a life and was healthy and that I didn't live a healthy life and it's not her fault I choose to be at home and spend my time playing with the kids. She said, you should hear about all the things she turns down after work to be with the kids and it's affecting her job.
> - Told her I still hope she ends up doing the right things eventually because the course she is heading on, is the opposite of that (talking about the felonies things, etc), there's good in her still somewhere but the past year has brought out the worst in you. Her response to that was the past year brought out the worst in me too (alluding to my spying, snooping, etc)
> - just like anything else in her life all throughout her life, if she's not going to get her way, she's going to throw a fit and she's not going to back down even if it's by un-righteous means
> 
> Just more of same BS that I try to avoid but I thought we were just going to talk about telling the kid and it evolved into that madness.
> 
> I'm keeping my mouth shut for the next few days and heading into a meeting with my lawyer on Monday that will determine a lot of where I go from here. The only recourse I had when I tried to keep it righteous was that I cannot believe she can do these things and say these things and still go to church to look at me and say these things in front of God as I pointed to the sky. She just shakes her head and accuses me of trying to act like I'm a better person than her.
> 
> Prepared for you guys to read me the riot act but also, Monday can't come soon enough. I need to get as far away from this toxicity as soon as possible but I'm not leaving my kids. Need to get the lowdown from lawyer and the proceed with caution but will not back down. I have a feeling the worst it yet to come. When I was a kid, I would always daydream about me being in this good vs. evil epic battle for humanity. Never did I think that the battle would be me vs. the person I would've taken a bullet for.


Can you just grow some ****ing balls and tell the kids? Why are you talking about the past?

Your getting the kids 50/50 despite her affair, why would they change because you told the kids your splitting up?

Because she knows deep down your being needy, she's walking all over you

Shes right in a way, you keep trying to be the good vs evil. Put away the good guy and show some balls. What she is doing clearly isn't right and don't agree with it, but can you see why she is seeking elsewhere?

Females like a man with balls even if she doesn't agree with your opinion.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

tom72 said:


> Can you just grow some ****ing balls and tell the kids? Why are you talking about the past?
> 
> Your getting the kids 50/50 despite her affair, why would they change because you told the kids your splitting up?
> 
> Because she knows deep down your being needy, she's walking all over you
> 
> Shes right in a way, you keep trying to be the good vs evil. Put away the good guy and show some balls. What she is doing clearly isn't right and don't agree with it, but can you see why she is seeking elsewhere?
> 
> Females like a man with balls even if she doesn't agree with your opinion.


Not doing a damn thing until after I speak with the attorney on Monday about things she might pursue and then it will be time to fast track everything to move as quickly away from this toxicity as possible.


----------



## lucy999

Take her entirely out of the equation. She is your enemy. Plan accordingly for you and the kids.

She is NOT gonna go down nicely. Quit trying to work with her.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

lucy999 said:


> Take her entirely out of the equation. She is your enemy. Plan accordingly for you and the kids.
> 
> She is NOT gonna go down nicely. Quit trying to work with her.


My thread of hope was when she started pursuing leaving in the very near future in that it could be a win for me if she could get out and get a new place but like someone told me today. Even if she gets the 50/50, there's not guarantee she will keep her word on getting out but I truly believe she wants to get out and get a new place ASAP so she can be free spirited and do anything she wants 50% of the time girl she turned back into last May. Probably thinks once she makes her move that he will then work on making his too.


----------



## BluesPower

I think you need to change your user name to something like "GetTheF***Out". Or something. 

How long did it take you to figure out that she is completely bat S*** crazy. I mean, she is not just a little bit crazy, she is just out there in the far galaxy crazy.

I forget, have you exposed the affair to everyone, esp the church, if not, then why in the H*** not?

You really need to understand that you cannot reason with a crazy person.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

BluesPower said:


> I think you need to change your user name to something like "GetTheF***Out". Or something.
> 
> How long did it take you to figure out that she is completely bat S*** crazy. I mean, she is not just a little bit crazy, she is just out there in the far galaxy crazy.
> 
> I forget, have you exposed the affair to everyone, esp the church, if not, then why in the H*** not?
> 
> You really need to understand that you cannot reason with a crazy person.


Exposure did nothing but send the affair deeper, I did it too late and even so I think it still would have done what it's doing now. Maybe if I exposed from Day 1 but I didn't even think of that, I didn't think that it would go the route that it did. I thought my biggest concern would be me getting over it, it was in fact her going off the deep end.

Her family was exposed about 3 months after I found out, which was already a month into it, so 4 months into the Affair and I didn't find out the depths of EVERYTHING until December, which would have put the affair at 7 months in.

Now as far as exposure;
Her Family - just wants to stay neutral and are talking to and spending time with her again
Mutual Family Friends - are sad for both of us, we are both good parents but it's between us
Church - exposed to Priest twice but she still serves on all the committees and was a lector on Palm Sunday for crying out loud
OM's Wife - exposed what i knew at the time in November but she told me I was a fool basically. She did find out in December though and apologized to me. They made up. Affair started again in middle of January after about a 2 week break and then wife found out again in early March and again, they made up. Haven't heard from the OM's wife in about a month ... Lord only knows that's going on now but I don't think my STBXW is going to give up the battle for him that easily if she hadn't done it the two times before, especially as she moves at the speed of light to get this divorce done.


----------



## jlg07

stillfightingforus said:


> Exposure did nothing but send the affair deeper, I did it too late and even so I think it still would have done what it's doing now. Maybe if I exposed from Day 1 but I didn't even think of that, I didn't think that it would go the route that it did. I thought my biggest concern would be me getting over it, it was in fact her going off the deep end.
> 
> Her family was exposed about 3 months after I found out, which was already a month into it, so 4 months into the Affair and I didn't find out the depths of EVERYTHING until December, which would have put the affair at 7 months in.
> 
> Now as far as exposure;
> Her Family - just wants to stay neutral and are talking to and spending time with her again
> *Mutual Family Friends - are sad for both of us, we are both good parents but it's between us*
> *Church - exposed to Priest twice but she still serves on all the committees and was a lector on Palm Sunday for crying out loud*
> OM's Wife - exposed what i knew at the time in November but she told me I was a fool basically. She did find out in December though and apologized to me. They made up. Affair started again in middle of January after about a 2 week break and then wife found out again in early March and again, they made up. Haven't heard from the OM's wife in about a month ... Lord only knows that's going on now but I don't think my STBXW is going to give up the battle for him that easily if she hadn't done it the two times before, especially as she moves at the speed of light to get this divorce done.


FOr your mutual friends, they are NOT your friends. You need to find some new ones and tell those folks to ****** off. Tell them straight out that you refuse to be friends with someone who cheats on their spouse (and that each of THEM should think what that means about their own marriage).

As for the church, contact your bishop. This is BS. Also, change churches NOW and tell your priest why. I also think you should confront the priest WITH the bishop and ask flatout how is this allowed? She didn't repent -- she is CURRENTLY committing adultery, so any sort of confession doesn't count as she is NOT forgiven because she isn't trying. Ask the priest/bishop HOW her actions conform to the religion and how they can allow that to go on.


----------



## LIESLIESLIES

Hey POS.
What do they do to HYPOCRITE husbands?
I will show you.
They deliver all on-line posts to the opposing divorce attorney.
Then the Judge has the whole picture and what Mr. Perfect POS has been doing behind his wives back...Right KEVIN from BOSTON?
Its a nice stack of papers that make for a real interesting read for her attorney and evidence too.
See you very soon POS!


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> Welp ... even more true colors were shown last night. We were supposed to tell kids tonight but she didn't want to until we have parenting time agreed upon and she will accept nothing less than 50/50. This escalated into a 2 hour discussion that went many dark places, 2 hours I'll never get back of my life. People said it would get nasty and I hadn't even begun to see the worse of her, well I think that came out with a vengeance last night. I have put everything on hold until I talk to my lawyer on Monday. Highlights of the talk last night.
> 
> - If I go from primary custody, she will go for primary custody
> - She will pursue action against 'felonies' I committed by getting into her work phone in December when I found out EVERYTHING
> - It's only fair that she get 50/50 and that I'm not the primary parent even though I spent the most time with them (my plan is like 55/45)
> - I was allowed to spend that much time with the kids because she did all the cleaning, cooking and housework (uhh no)
> - We would have gotten divorced anyway, the affair had nothing to do with this situation
> - she brought up communication and how we just couldn't communicate and aren't right for each other and I didn't talk to her (I can't tell you how many times I would go to her and just try to say small talk and she would not pay attention, how many times she would say she didn't care to talk about that or would interrupt me when I was talking, all of these things made it like pulling teeth to start up conversations with her, like anything else, communication happened when she wanted it to happen, same with sex, where we went and everything else.)
> - She accused me of acting like I'm perfect and did nothing wrong, said I caused her years of pain because of my gambling (mind you, this was something in 2001 when I was doing online sports betting, to the tone of a few $hundred dollars) and that she was deeply hurt when she asked me to pick my business or her (this was when we were going through issues in 2008, counseling, etc)
> - I said those were things that were things I was sorry for but way in the past in terms of we got past them and thought we were happy and good to go, that was 10 years and 17 years ago. I told her things she had said over the years after that, that indicated we were good. I said, were you just lying then? She said yes, she was lying to make herself feel better
> - When I told her about the time she had spent away from the kids for running, pampered chef, church meetings, volleyball and everything else, her comeback was she had a life and was healthy and that I didn't live a healthy life and it's not her fault I choose to be at home and spend my time playing with the kids. She said, you should hear about all the things she turns down after work to be with the kids and it's affecting her job.
> - Told her I still hope she ends up doing the right things eventually because the course she is heading on, is the opposite of that (talking about the felonies things, etc), there's good in her still somewhere but the past year has brought out the worst in you. Her response to that was the past year brought out the worst in me too (alluding to my spying, snooping, etc)
> - just like anything else in her life all throughout her life, if she's not going to get her way, she's going to throw a fit and she's not going to back down even if it's by un-righteous means
> 
> Just more of same BS that I try to avoid but I thought we were just going to talk about telling the kid and it evolved into that madness.
> 
> I'm keeping my mouth shut for the next few days and heading into a meeting with my lawyer on Monday that will determine a lot of where I go from here. The only recourse I had when I tried to keep it righteous was that I cannot believe she can do these things and say these things and still go to church to look at me and say these things in front of God as I pointed to the sky. She just shakes her head and accuses me of trying to act like I'm a better person than her.
> 
> Prepared for you guys to read me the riot act but also, Monday can't come soon enough. I need to get as far away from this toxicity as soon as possible but I'm not leaving my kids. Need to get the lowdown from lawyer and the proceed with caution but will not back down. I have a feeling the worst it yet to come. When I was a kid, I would always daydream about me being in this good vs. evil epic battle for humanity. Never did I think that the battle would be me vs. the person I would've taken a bullet for.


She doesn't own the phone, she can't do a thing to you. She can tell her work about it but once they hear affair/divorce they aren't going to press charges or waste there time. She would also be in trouble for using a work phone for personal business with her employer so by all means tell her to try and press charges. My crazy ex tried this tactic with me and I begged her to haul me into court and explain her affair to a judge. It never happened and your stbx won't either. 

Of course she's going to threaten primary custody fight, everybody knew that was coming including your lawyer and you should have too. Its gonna be a fight no matter how nice you try and be so prepare for battle. Almost everything else she babbled about is just simple blame deflection and no court cares kind of stuff and you should have just laughed at her a walked away and saved a couple hours of your life. 

Nothing you posted you should fear or even be concerned about.


----------



## Tron

F! her! And quit "discussing" everything. Time to just let the attorney handle it. The phone thing matters not at all. Nobody will care.

After your Monday meeting with the attorney just tell your kids the truth. In fact who gives a **** whether she is there or not. She is going to be mad anyway, no matter what you do. That is just who she is. 

I hope you see her true colors now. She is your enemy! She will continue to rip your guts out as long as you let her.


----------



## Chuck71

honcho said:


> You already know the friend of the court is going to recommend 50/50 and nothing your stbx says can be used against you especially when it's the truth. A sanitized truth is what's best for the kids right now. It's going to hurt them yes but divorce hurts and it's better to get it out than trickle truthing them and hurting them over and over.
> 
> Your stbx won't like it, too bad.


He's right SFFU........ why trickle truth your kids the same way your WW did you?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Welp ... even more true colors were shown last night. We were supposed to tell kids tonight but she didn't want to until we have parenting time agreed upon and she will accept nothing less than 50/50. This escalated into a 2 hour discussion that went many dark places, 2 hours I'll never get back of my life. People said it would get nasty and I hadn't even begun to see the worse of her, well I think that came out with a vengeance last night. I have put everything on hold until I talk to my lawyer on Monday. Highlights of the talk last night.
> 
> - If I go from primary custody, she will go for primary custody
> - She will pursue action against 'felonies' I committed by getting into her work phone in December when I found out EVERYTHING
> - It's only fair that she get 50/50 and that I'm not the primary parent even though I spent the most time with them (my plan is like 55/45)
> - I was allowed to spend that much time with the kids because she did all the cleaning, cooking and housework (uhh no)
> - We would have gotten divorced anyway, the affair had nothing to do with this situation
> - she brought up communication and how we just couldn't communicate and aren't right for each other and I didn't talk to her (I can't tell you how many times I would go to her and just try to say small talk and she would not pay attention, how many times she would say she didn't care to talk about that or would interrupt me when I was talking, all of these things made it like pulling teeth to start up conversations with her, like anything else, communication happened when she wanted it to happen, same with sex, where we went and everything else.)
> - She accused me of acting like I'm perfect and did nothing wrong, said I caused her years of pain because of my gambling (mind you, this was something in 2001 when I was doing online sports betting, to the tone of a few $hundred dollars) and that she was deeply hurt when she asked me to pick my business or her (this was when we were going through issues in 2008, counseling, etc)
> - I said those were things that were things I was sorry for but way in the past in terms of we got past them and thought we were happy and good to go, that was 10 years and 17 years ago. I told her things she had said over the years after that, that indicated we were good. I said, were you just lying then? She said yes, she was lying to make herself feel better
> - When I told her about the time she had spent away from the kids for running, pampered chef, church meetings, volleyball and everything else, her comeback was she had a life and was healthy and that I didn't live a healthy life and it's not her fault I choose to be at home and spend my time playing with the kids. She said, you should hear about all the things she turns down after work to be with the kids and it's affecting her job.
> - Told her I still hope she ends up doing the right things eventually because the course she is heading on, is the opposite of that (talking about the felonies things, etc), there's good in her still somewhere but the past year has brought out the worst in you. Her response to that was the past year brought out the worst in me too (alluding to my spying, snooping, etc)
> - just like anything else in her life all throughout her life, if she's not going to get her way, she's going to throw a fit and she's not going to back down even if it's by un-righteous means
> 
> Just more of same BS that I try to avoid but I thought we were just going to talk about telling the kid and it evolved into that madness.
> 
> I'm keeping my mouth shut for the next few days and heading into a meeting with my lawyer on Monday that will determine a lot of where I go from here. The only recourse I had when I tried to keep it righteous was that I cannot believe she can do these things and say these things and still go to church to look at me and say these things in front of God as I pointed to the sky. She just shakes her head and accuses me of trying to act like I'm a better person than her.
> 
> Prepared for you guys to read me the riot act but also, Monday can't come soon enough. I need to get as far away from this toxicity as soon as possible but I'm not leaving my kids. Need to get the lowdown from lawyer and the proceed with caution but will not back down. I have a feeling the worst it yet to come. When I was a kid, I would always daydream about me being in this good vs. evil epic battle for humanity. Never did I think that the battle would be me vs. the person I would've taken a bullet for.


Lawyer
Lawyer
Lawyer

And honestly, blah blah blah the conversations you are having with her. Broken record dude. Time to put out the torch you have been carrying for her. She certainly does not care. Nor anyone else you keep mentioning, i.e. church family etc. Sorry. 

Again for the 100th time. Just tell your kids w/o her. 

She opens her trap on anything just say "It is for the best you move as fast as possible, for the kids sake. Your attorney can contact mine on anything specific".


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Feels like I keep taking Ls. Met with lawyer today. She said I really have nothing to worry about but I'm terms of getting more than 50/50. That's going to be an uphill battle. Mainly because of how courts rule by default and egregious acts by stbxw are done in secret. It's not really a matter of who's the better parent but if each parent is competent ... Glad we have such high standards in the courts, sheesh. Going to be an uphill battle to keep house because I will have to get approved with my income only. I can afford the house but getting refinancing could be the hard part. Stbxw makes about 40% more than I do. Just seems like she's going to get what she wants and smile off into the sunset to follow her happiness. I realize in the long run it will be a different story but sure suck to have the one with the moral compass and conscience now. Lastly. Lawyer fully agrees with FOC on just telling kids status quo and letting the find out later in life. I told most of the people recommended I give the sanitized truth. She said what people? And them pulled out the 25 year experience card and said if I want what's best for the kids ... I will keep mommy and daddy out of the talk and keep it civil and g rated status quo. Today sucked!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Also. For those that could weigh in. I'm thinking about doing a 2 2 5 5 schedule every 2 weeks. Would go like this.

Me - Monday and Tuesday
Her - Wednesday and Thursday
Me - Friday through Tuesday the next week
Her Wednesday through Sunday

So consistent every week days would be Monday and Tuesday for me. Wednesday and Thursday for her and then alternating weekends


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Alimony. Demand it.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Feels like I keep taking Ls. Met with lawyer today. She said I really have nothing to worry about but I'm terms of getting more than 50/50. That's going to be an uphill battle. Mainly because of how courts rule by default and egregious acts by stbxw are done in secret. It's not really a matter of who's the better parent but if each parent is competent ... Glad we have such high standards in the courts, sheesh. Going to be an uphill battle to keep house because I will have to get approved with my income only. I can afford the house but getting refinancing could be the hard part. Stbxw makes about 40% more than I do. Just seems like she's going to get what she wants and smile off into the sunset to follow her happiness. I realize in the long run it will be a different story but sure suck to have the one with the moral compass and conscience now. Lastly. Lawyer fully agrees with FOC on just telling kids status quo and letting the find out later in life. I told most of the people recommended I give the sanitized truth. She said what people? And them pulled out the 25 year experience card and said if I want what's best for the kids ... I will keep mommy and daddy out of the talk and keep it civil and g rated status quo. Today sucked!


Dude, tell FOC to eat hog dung and die from sepsis. You can tell your kids what ever you want to, whenever you want to. 

You don't need FOC permission to tell YOUR children that mommy has had a married boyfriend for 11 years and now that daddy has given up trying to change her mind she wants to be alone with him away from Daddy. 

It is that simple. If FOC brings that up in court that you said that find a lawyer with cohonjes to object. 

BTW, asking your attorney for advice that is not legal, you are just running the clock. They are not therapists or social workers.


----------



## honcho

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Alimony. Demand it.


Oh my, yes, chase alimony and child support too. Your the lower income and in divorce that means you have the better negotiating position. You want primary custody, I'll lay odds she will negotiate that for a reduction in alimony, things like that.


----------



## EleGirl

LIESLIESLIES said:


> Hey POS.
> What do they do to HYPOCRITE husbands?
> I will show you.
> They deliver all on-line posts to the opposing divorce attorney.
> Then the Judge has the whole picture and what Mr. Perfect POS has been doing behind his wives back...Right KEVIN from BOSTON?
> Its a nice stack of papers that make for a real interesting read for her attorney and evidence too.
> See you very soon POS!


 @stillfightingforus

You might have missed the above post .............


----------



## SentHereForAReason

EleGirl said:


> @stillfightingforus
> 
> You might have missed the above post .............


Wow, how could I have missed this? This is surely the work of a Rhodes Scholar in action! I didn't realize I had multiple 'WIVES' :laugh:


----------



## Chuck71

stillfightingforus said:


> Wow, how could I have missed this? This is surely the work of a Rhodes Scholar in action! I didn't realize I had multiple 'WIVES' :laugh:


I was tempted to send this to the owner of post lieslieslies.... but I can see it would be wise not to quote it.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Chuck71 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, how could I have missed this? This is surely the work of a Rhodes Scholar in action! I didn't realize I had multiple 'WIVES' <a href="http://cdn.talkaboutmarriage.net/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, nice!
> 
> I was tempted to send this to the owner of post lieslieslies.... but I can see it would be wise not to quote it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Chuck71

SFFU..... She makes these stage claims because she knows... you will cave when it comes down to it.

I promise you.... the first time you stand up to her.... you will put a kink in her armor.

With every later kink.... it gets easier and easier to and the holes in her armor will be larger and larger.

Hey.... I understand why you're hesitant. Not long ago, bit over 5 years.... I had my DDay. For about three-four

weeks I was hesitant to do anything, aka rock the boat....being I still wanted things to work out.

The very day I decided "no more," everything changed. I turned into an ice cold ahole

and she wanted to start conversations with me, be around me, etc. The only thing I accepted out of her mouth

was about working on the M.... the rest was garbage to me. Near the holidays, I left.... I was getting the house

in the D anyway.... As soon as I left, reaches, reaches, reaches.... emails about utter BS.

-Someone's driving by the house really slow, stopping, and driving off- Translation... she wants me to come

home.... and rugsweep. I had a three day grace on reading her emails.... unless the subject line said

-I want to talk about us- Why the balance of power changed? I took control of it.

You should try this.... I am quite certain, it would work. Given the fact she makes more than you...

by all means leverage for alimony and CS. Why not? And if you documented the times you had

the kids.... and if it is usually 65/35, by crap ask for that. You'll get them that much eventually, as she runs off

to be with her prince pinhead. 

Just gather yourself, I know it ain't easy... but it gets easier after you start doing it. I know my D was long ago

but my two D threads are still on here. Posters are giving you a kick in the ass because they know

how much better things will be for you.... once you decide to take control.

Boston? Hmmm.... do we need to get Big Papi to come over and give you a pep talk???


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

SSFU,

Stand up for yourself. Why do you seem to be so full of fear? Fear not! You have the power to knock her down from her lofty perch. Her ego and perception of herself is the Achilles heel. 

Tell your children the truth. Tell your totally worthless wife she is not worth the salt peter to blow her ass to hell and you are going to make it tough if she does not play ball.

I know you are in a tough position, but history will repeat itself in other relationships if you do not grow a pair and stand up for yourself. Please take charge and stop the insanity.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> SSFU,
> 
> Stand up for yourself. Why do you seem to be so full of fear? Fear not! You have the power to knock her down from her lofty perch. Her ego and perception of herself is the Achilles heel.
> 
> Tell your children the truth. Tell your totally worthless wife she is not worth the salt peter to blow her ass to hell and you are going to make it tough if she does not play ball.
> 
> I know you are in a tough position, but history will repeat itself in other relationships if you do not grow a pair and stand up for yourself. Please take charge and stop the insanity.


Had some good conversations today with basketball buddies and my counselor and a friend from work. All brought it up without me asking in separate times of the day. It was about having an internal checklist of what to avoid in future relationships. That if anything resembles what I have seen here ... Run for the hills as fast as I can. 

The tough spot now is walking a fine line to getting her out of her as soon as possible or rocking the boat and causing her to stay out of spite. I sent her a document today that detailed my recommendations for parenting time, splitting accounts and starting to separate everything within the next month or so. I was more than fair but without cutting off my own nose. If we cannot agree to what I suggested I will not back down and will be forced to fight for what's right for those that have no choice I'm the matter. Tonight could set the course for my next year in life and I'm determined to just move on and out this toxicity as far away from me and as quickly as possible.


----------



## Chuck71

stillfightingforus said:


> Had some good conversations today with basketball buddies and my counselor and a friend from work. All brought it up without me asking in separate times of the day. It was about having an internal checklist of what to avoid in future relationships. That if anything resembles what I have seen here ... Run for the hills as fast as I can.
> 
> The tough spot now is walking a fine line to getting her out of her as soon as possible or rocking the boat and causing her to stay out of spite. I sent her a document today that detailed my recommendations for parenting time, splitting accounts and starting to separate everything within the next month or so. I was more than fair but without cutting off my own nose. If we cannot agree to what I suggested I will not back down and will be forced to fight for what's right for those that have no choice I'm the matter. Tonight could set the course for my next year in life and I'm determined to just move on and out this toxicity as far away from me and as quickly as possible.


Ask her out tonight for a date night.

Her ass will be gone before The Tonight Show with ??? ????

Yeah... still think Carson was king..... Shows my age


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> Had some good conversations today with basketball buddies and my counselor and a friend from work. All brought it up without me asking in separate times of the day. It was about having an internal checklist of what to avoid in future relationships. That if anything resembles what I have seen here ... Run for the hills as fast as I can.
> 
> The tough spot now is walking a fine line to getting her out of her as soon as possible or rocking the boat and causing her to stay out of spite. I sent her a document today that detailed my recommendations for parenting time, splitting accounts and starting to separate everything within the next month or so. I was more than fair but without cutting off my own nose. If we cannot agree to what I suggested I will not back down and will be forced to fight for what's right for those that have no choice I'm the matter. Tonight could set the course for my next year in life and I'm determined to just move on and out this toxicity as far away from me and as quickly as possible.


She won't stay out of spite, she's staying because it's advantageous for her too. She still has you around which means she has a built in babysitter is she feels like going out, your the responsible one so if something needs to be attended to you'll do it. Both of you are still playing happy family to the kids so she can still have her double life and mom and your not going to make waves for her. 

She has zero reason to leave now. She won't go anywhere until the boat does get rocked.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Update. Had Friend of the Court meeting today. Yesterday morning i gave up my battle for more than 50/50 and we worked out a schedule on my terms in terms of what days ... The holiday schedule i wanted, etc. I sent her my list of recommendations on how the next 45 days will play out line by line with splitting accounts, etc. Now we moving full speed ahead in opposite directions as she has found the house she wants and I'm working to secure this one with appraisal and refi work this week. Feels like somewhat of a relief although I know battles will likely lay ahead with child support, alimony, etc. She of course is acting nice now that she feels like she is getting her way. The sooner I can restore integrity to this house, the better.


----------



## Lostinthought61

stillfightingforus said:


> Update. Had Friend of the Court meeting today. Yesterday morning i gave up my battle for more than 50/50 and we worked out a schedule on my terms in terms of what days ... The holiday schedule i wanted, etc. I sent her my list of recommendations on how the next 45 days will play out line by line with splitting accounts, etc. Now we moving full speed ahead in opposite directions as she has found the house she wants and I'm working to secure this one with appraisal and refi work this week. Feels like somewhat of a relief although I know battles will likely lay ahead with child support, alimony, etc. She of course is acting nice now that she feels like she is getting her way. The sooner I can restore integrity to this house, the better.


please tell me she is not looking for alimony? not after the all the crap she put you through.


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## honcho

Lostinthought61 said:


> please tell me she is not looking for alimony? not after the all the crap she put you through.


She makes more than him, he can chase alimony.


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> Update. Had Friend of the Court meeting today. Yesterday morning i gave up my battle for more than 50/50 and we worked out a schedule on my terms in terms of what days ... The holiday schedule i wanted, etc. I sent her my list of recommendations on how the next 45 days will play out line by line with splitting accounts, etc. Now we moving full speed ahead in opposite directions as she has found the house she wants and I'm working to secure this one with appraisal and refi work this week. Feels like somewhat of a relief although I know battles will likely lay ahead with child support, alimony, etc. She of course is acting nice now that she feels like she is getting her way. The sooner I can restore integrity to this house, the better.


If you've reached an agreement that your satisfied with in regards to days/holidays talk to your lawyer now and get a a written legal agreement done on those items. The problem is that while she agrees now in a week she could very well change her mind and this often happens. The less things open to negotiations the better off you'll be. Once the money end starts and she sees she won't get a big windfall or has to pay you the more likely she will back out on custody agreement's etc. trying to be better deals elsewhere in negotiations.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

The Friend of the Court moved Fast, she typed up the letter after we left and the lawyers already have it in writing, sign, sealed and emailed to me. 

Alimony and Child Support will likely be an issue because they both go in my favor because of the 50/50 parenting but size-able difference in our incomes.

Once she found out how things might be calculated at the end of our meeting today, she wasn't a chipper to say the least. Might only be like $150/200 a month but still better than nothing or me paying.

I was under the impression that alimony would be easy and child support would be minimal but Friend of the Court Officer said that was other way around. We'll see. If anything, it gives me bargaining chips since my retirement is a little bit more than hers and the equity payment that I am looking at giving her. Softens the blow on those items!


----------



## honcho

​


stillfightingforus said:


> The Friend of the Court moved Fast, she typed up the letter after we left and the lawyers already have it in writing, sign, sealed and emailed to me.
> 
> Alimony and Child Support will likely be an issue because they both go in my favor because of the 50/50 parenting but size-able difference in our incomes.
> 
> Once she found out how things might be calculated at the end of our meeting today, she wasn't a chipper to say the least. Might only be like $150/200 a month but still better than nothing or me paying.
> 
> I was under the impression that alimony would be easy and child support would be minimal but Friend of the Court Officer said that was other way around. We'll see. If anything, it gives me bargaining chips since my retirement is a little bit more than hers and the equity payment that I am looking at giving her. Softens the blow on those items!


Most if not all states have formulas they use for child support so that is typically cut and dry, alimony on the other hand is usually written as "maintaining standard of living" and other catch phrases that make it an open field for negotiations/fights. Most alimony laws on the books in states are antiquated and judges are given a wide latitude in rulings. 

Your lawyer should be familiar with how the judge normally rules as they do become very predictable in alimony rulings.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Last night she came to me and said, how about I pay for kids tuition and childcare and no child support. I said, it would just be easier to split those costs 50/50 and let the courts decide on support. It will be cleaner that way and easier to manage, etc.

That went from a cordial moment of speaking to her saying .....

I'm not going to pay 50/50 on those other things if I have to pay child support and I explained to her it is because of our incomes. She said it wasn't her fault that I make what I do and I could make more money in another job and it's not her fault that I choose to stay in my job .... lol

I just looked at her and shook my head. She then said, forgive me, I am tired and don't know what I'm saying, I am just talking ideas out loud, forget what I said.

I should call up the people at the Shrine Circus so they can come over and film this for inspiration for their acts!


----------



## Chuck71

stillfightingforus said:


> Last night she came to me and said, how about I pay for kids tuition and childcare and no child support. I said, it would just be easier to split those costs 50/50 and let the courts decide on support. It will be cleaner that way and easier to manage, etc.
> 
> That went from a cordial moment of speaking to her saying .....
> 
> I'm not going to pay 50/50 on those other things if I have to pay child support and I explained to her it is because of our incomes. She said it wasn't her fault that I make what I do and I could make more money in another job and it's not her fault that I choose to stay in my job .... lol
> 
> I just looked at her and shook my head. She then said, forgive me, I am tired and don't know what I'm saying, I am just talking ideas out loud, forget what I said.
> 
> I should call up the people at the Shrine Circus so they can come over and film this for inspiration for their acts!


Good Lord how do you think she would come after you if you made more money than her?

Unless her words can be written down and damn notarized.... EVERY single Gdamn word that comes 

out her mouth.... is GARBAGE. You have the kids more...... utilize this at max potential. She makes more....

utilize this to max potential. DO NOT NOT NOT agree to small amounts which deal with school books,

aftercare, etc.... that is NOT included in the alimony amount. Why? You think she'll pay it??? Seriously....

Lump everything into the CS..... that is more "cut n dry" as Honcho stated. Alimony has latitude....

IF.... the judge will grant your amount for it, and many things can be included in it, great.

She will NOT pay it unless it is garnished from her check by the courts. If there are agreements she will

pay for xxxx and xxxxx but it is at her own volition.... see how long she pays those....

"Those" monies should be better spent on her and prince pinhead, NOT her kids... or her XH.

Get the picture?

Edit-Alimony is temp unless you were M long.... were you? CS remains until they are both of age. Which would work better for you?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Chuck71 said:


> Good Lord how do you think she would come after you if you made more money than her?
> 
> Unless her words can be written down and damn notarized.... EVERY single Gdamn word that comes
> 
> out her mouth.... is GARBAGE. You have the kids more...... utilize this at max potential. She makes more....
> 
> utilize this to max potential. DO NOT NOT NOT agree to small amounts which deal with school books,
> 
> aftercare, etc.... that is NOT included in the alimony amount. Why? You think she'll pay it??? Seriously....
> 
> Lump everything into the CS..... that is more "cut n dry" as Honcho stated. Alimony has latitude....
> 
> IF.... the judge will grant your amount for it, and many things can be included in it, great.
> 
> She will NOT pay it unless it is garnished from her check by the courts. If there are agreements she will
> 
> pay for xxxx and xxxxx but it is at her own volition.... see how long she pays those....
> 
> "Those" monies should be better spent on her and prince pinhead, NOT her kids... or her XH.
> 
> Get the picture?
> 
> Edit-Alimony is temp unless you were M long.... were you? CS remains until they are both of age. Which would work better for you?


Together 18 Years, Married 14
Kids (Almost) 11 and 7


----------



## Chuck71

They only count 14 and you being "up north" might as well round it to 15. Is CS cut at 18 or do they

provision for university as well? If ali is 50% length of M, one will be 18 by then, not the other.

Definite lawyer question..... which way to receive more support for you, to raise the kids.

Oh.... let us know when she tells you this.... "No "real man" accepts alimony from his wife."

I have a nice reply if you want to use it.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

stillfightingforus said:


> Last night she came to me and said, how about I pay for kids tuition and childcare and no child support. I said, it would just be easier to split those costs 50/50 and let the courts decide on support. It will be cleaner that way and easier to manage, etc.
> 
> That went from a cordial moment of speaking to her saying .....
> 
> I'm not going to pay 50/50 on those other things if I have to pay child support and I explained to her it is because of our incomes. She said it wasn't her fault that I make what I do and I could make more money in another job and it's not her fault that I choose to stay in my job .... lol
> 
> I just looked at her and shook my head. She then said, forgive me, I am tired and don't know what I'm saying, I am just talking ideas out loud, forget what I said.
> 
> I should call up the people at the Shrine Circus so they can come over and film this for inspiration for their acts!


Tell your Stbxw “the whole world is a circus but you do not always have to be the clown.” 
Yep, reality is smacking her in the chops.
Keep the pressure up.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

stillfightingforus said:


> Last night she came to me and said, how about I pay for kids tuition and childcare and no child support. I said, it would just be easier to split those costs 50/50 and let the courts decide on support. It will be cleaner that way and easier to manage, etc.
> 
> That went from a cordial moment of speaking to her saying .....
> 
> I'm not going to pay 50/50 on those other things if I have to pay child support and I explained to her it is because of our incomes. She said it wasn't her fault that I make what I do and I could make more money in another job and it's not her fault that I choose to stay in my job .... lol
> 
> I just looked at her and shook my head. She then said, forgive me, I am tired and don't know what I'm saying, I am just talking ideas out loud, forget what I said.
> 
> I should call up the people at the Shrine Circus so they can come over and film this for inspiration for their acts!


She knows she makes more and a good divorce attorney on your side will squeeze her.

She wanted her freedom and now she is squawking because she to pay for it. Baby sitter daddy retired, now her little money bubble is bursting. LOL! 

Make her pay dude. Just deflect everything to your attorney and instruct your attorney to go for everything the law will allow. I mean everything. Do not play nice on this. 

Health insurance, future automobiles, college - including dorm fees and books. The limo for the prom, the prom dress. HS class trips. Force her to pay half, make sure it is in the decree. If not when it comes up she will squeal poverty and conveniently claim you should pay because you collected more in CS and alimony. Now is the time to get it all in writing. Stick it to her hard. Like she stuck you.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

lol, I'm cracking up at your guys' responses!


----------



## Chuck71

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> She knows she makes more and a good divorce attorney on your side will squeeze her.
> 
> She wanted her freedom and now she is squawking because she to pay for it. Baby sitter daddy retired, now her little money bubble is bursting. LOL!
> 
> Make her pay dude. Just deflect everything to your attorney and instruct your attorney to go for everything the law will allow. I mean everything. Do not play nice on this.
> 
> Health insurance, future automobiles, college - including dorm fees and books. The limo for the prom, the prom dress. HS class trips. Force her to pay half, make sure it is in the decree. If not when it comes up she will squeal poverty and conveniently claim you should pay because you collected more in CS and alimony. Now is the time to get it all in writing. Stick it to her hard. Like she stuck you.


In other words....... have HER pay YOU to D HER..... your prize.... the kids. Hers... prince pinhead.

Tell me again who wins....


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Chuck71 said:


> In other words....... have HER pay YOU to D HER..... your prize.... the kids. Hers... prince pinhead.
> 
> Tell me again who wins....


Exactly! Just wish I could get the kids more than 50/50 but just need to realize that wasn't going to happen in the courts so now I can focus on other items and focus on the time I do have them half the time, making that as fulfilling for all of us as possible.


----------



## Chuck71

stillfightingforus said:


> Exactly! Just wish I could get the kids more than 50/50 but just need to realize that wasn't going to happen in the courts so now I can focus on other items and focus on the time I do have them half the time, making that as fulfilling for all of us as possible.


If you have the kids more, and you documented it.... you can have them more.

Judges like precedents. And IF it is 50 / 50, document and after a year, go back to court.

She expected you to fold to her whims..... now you're not. Now watch what she DOES,

NOT what she says. Your interest is the kids, hers is prince pinhead. A good lawyer might

be able to utilize this. The more you "balls up" to her, the quicker she will leave.

She ain't used to this...... you will attract her to you by doing so. This will impede upon her

cerebral portion with prince pinhead. She will leave so all her thoughts are on him..... 

Sometimes you can work crazy to your advantage.... crazy can be predictable...


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Plus half of the sports fees for team sports, uniforms, equipment, lessons such as dance, music and art. Plus SAT test prep. 

Don't forget braces and retainers and other cosmetics not covered by dental insurance and oh yes, half of all medical deductible. 

Half the future teen's car insurance and half the kids cell phone plans. 

Half of summer camp and half the trip to Africa building schools for poor kids, that volunteer work some HS teens do for college acceptance charity. 

Am I leaving anything out?


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> Last night she came to me and said, how about I pay for kids tuition and childcare and no child support. I said, it would just be easier to split those costs 50/50 and let the courts decide on support. It will be cleaner that way and easier to manage, etc.
> 
> That went from a cordial moment of speaking to her saying .....
> 
> I'm not going to pay 50/50 on those other things if I have to pay child support and I explained to her it is because of our incomes. She said it wasn't her fault that I make what I do and I could make more money in another job and it's not her fault that I choose to stay in my job .... lol
> 
> I just looked at her and shook my head. She then said, forgive me, I am tired and don't know what I'm saying, I am just talking ideas out loud, forget what I said.
> 
> I should call up the people at the Shrine Circus so they can come over and film this for inspiration for their acts!


She will try every trick in the book now to minimize how much she has to pay ranging from yelling and belittling to sex. Don't be surprised when you come home one day and she's got your favorite dinner all ready, anything to get you more agreeable in negotiations. 

States in general don't like much wheeling and dealing on child support since they have their magic formulas they use. Alimony you have a wide range of opportunity for instance you may waive alimony but she doesn't get any equity out of the house. These are all things where a good lawyer should be running numbers and giving you a few different scenarios to figure which is best for you in the long run. You need to keep the long game in mind since these decisions affect you for years to come.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

honcho said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last night she came to me and said, how about I pay for kids tuition and childcare and no child support. I said, it would just be easier to split those costs 50/50 and let the courts decide on support. It will be cleaner that way and easier to manage, etc.
> 
> That went from a cordial moment of speaking to her saying .....
> 
> I'm not going to pay 50/50 on those other things if I have to pay child support and I explained to her it is because of our incomes. She said it wasn't her fault that I make what I do and I could make more money in another job and it's not her fault that I choose to stay in my job .... lol
> 
> I just looked at her and shook my head. She then said, forgive me, I am tired and don't know what I'm saying, I am just talking ideas out loud, forget what I said.
> 
> I should call up the people at the Shrine Circus so they can come over and film this for inspiration for their acts!
> 
> 
> 
> She will try every trick in the book now to minimize how much she has to pay ranging from yelling and belittling to sex. Don't be surprised when you come home one day and she's got your favorite dinner all ready, anything to get you more agreeable in negotiations.
> 
> States in general don't like much wheeling and dealing on child support since they have their magic formulas they use. Alimony you have a wide range of opportunity for instance you may waive alimony but she doesn't get any equity out of the house. These are all things where a good lawyer should be running numbers and giving you a few different scenarios to figure which is best for you in the long run. You need to keep the long game in mind since these decisions affect you for years to come.
Click to expand...

Oh trust me. I think a lot of waywards would try seduction but it's not going to happen here. I can guarantee that with 99.9% certainty. I think she would choose her grave before she tries to sway me that way. Having said that I think her game plan may be to spread things about me to turn people against me but I could be wrong. I don't have any info on that. That's just a small hunch.


----------



## lucy999

A lot of people here have really good ideas about child support. I want you to take some time and think of everything, and I mean absolutely everything that she should help re: the kids' expenses. It may feel you are nickel-and-diming her to death, but trust me when I tell you she will try to wiggle out of her financial commitments when it comes to the children. You need to think of virtually every scenario, every expense, and have it in writing. Be sure to think about the future, and not only in the Here and Now.

I have a friend who didn't have a really good lawyer in this regard, he followed my friend's lead in being nice about it. She really needed a pitbull of a lawyer. You need to know that some lawyers generally will follow your lead. In other words, if you are going to be nice about this, that's the path and attitude your attorney will take. If you go in with barrels blazing, anger, and rage, all within appropriate measures of course, your lawyer will Advocate more strongly for you.

My friend's ex-husband, the father of her children, has left her holding the empty money bag. He knows that in order for her to get any sort of traction in getting him to pay for the kids' braces, medical bills and co-pays, and sports with 3 boys!!! SO EXPENSIVE !! she would have to spend money by bringing him back to court. Money that she doesn't have So he has her over a barrel. And she continues to pay his share. 

Get every single stitch of an agreement in writing. Do not believe a word she is telling you. Do not trust her, you are doing this for you and the kids.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

lucy999 said:


> A lot of people here have really good ideas about child support. I want you to take some time and think of everything, and I mean absolutely everything that she should help re: the kids' expenses. It may feel you are nickel-and-diming her to death, but trust me when I tell you she will try to wiggle out of her financial commitments when it comes to the children. You need to think of virtually every scenario, every expense, and have it in writing. Be sure to think about the future, and not only in the Here and Now.
> 
> I have a friend who didn't have a really good lawyer in this regard, he followed my friend's lead in being nice about it. She really needed a pitbull of a lawyer. You need to know that some lawyers generally will follow your lead. In other words, if you are going to be nice about this, that's the path and attitude your attorney will take. If you go in with barrels blazing, anger, and rage, all within appropriate measures of course, your lawyer will Advocate more strongly for you.
> 
> My friend's ex-husband, the father of her children, has left her holding the empty money bag. He knows that in order for her to get any sort of traction in getting him to pay for the kids' braces, medical bills and co-pays, and sports with 3 boys!!! SO EXPENSIVE !! she would have to spend money by bringing him back to court. Money that she doesn't have So he has her over a barrel. And she continues to pay his share.
> 
> Get every single stitch of an agreement in writing. Do not believe a word she is telling you. Do not trust her, you are doing this for you and the kids.


fashionable eye glasses, concert tickets, the Ipad, the bicycles. Put it in writing, If you can afford half, so can she on TOP of the CS. 

Get a pit bull of an attorney to demand it. That is where negotiations start.


----------



## Chuck71

stillfightingforus said:


> Oh trust me. I think a lot of waywards would try seduction but it's not going to happen here. I can guarantee that with 99.9% certainty. I think she would choose her grave before she tries to sway me that way.
> 
> *That be the case, get some Viagra and walk around the house with very tight underwear on....Sing a sappy love song from 1995.*
> 
> 
> Having said that I think her game plan may be to spread things about me to turn people against me but I could be wrong. I don't have any info on that. That's just a small hunch.


She is aware this is real life and not high school? She reminds me of my ex aunt... crap of the crop


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Chuck71 said:


> She is aware this is real life and not high school? She reminds me of my ex aunt... crap of the crop


Her skills in manipulation are so good ... people that know of the affair feel sorry for her. Which would be normal in a normal amicable divorce but not in a divorce where the person that cheated repeatedly is the one that projected all of the blame and wanted the divorce.

If they reboot Coming To America, she would fill in for Eddie Murphy if needed because of the cast of characters she can play.


----------



## sokillme

Your wife is a bully and from the beginning of this thread and your last one has been an awful person. Mark my words this will get ugly before it's over.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

@sokillme

In response to our post in the other thread;

Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
Are you on medication? Are you afraid to be angry? Have you been taught that anger is wrong? Have you been shamed?
Not to thread jack but to answer;

- No Medication
- Not afraid to be angry but real easy going and easily turn the other cheek unless I feel I have been disrespected hardcore. Dad and Brother taught me how to fight, stand up for myself
- Hmm on shamed, not been shamed but I guess I'm not real comfortable being macho around people I don't know very well. Like not doing stuff that a lot of guys do and don't hold back. Bodily noises, being crude, etc

I think it really comes down to how I deal interact with girls, especially those that I put on a pedestal vs. everyone else.

Outside of my marriage, I did what I wanted for the most part, demanded respect, wasn't afraid to take charge, get angry, get results ... ran the show in a lot of ways. Inside my marriage, I let her wear the pants too much and let her do what she wanted and encouraged it because that is what I thought she wanted and would make her happy, which nothing seemed to make her ultimately happy for long but it did seem like the last few years were getting easier and better, she even said so the year before the affair. When I asked her that months ago, she said she just gave up, she just was putting on a happy face, a show, whatever she said that was good was lying to me and herself.

Long story short, two strong men role models in my life but for me;

- Assertive in life
- Not assertive with women, really shy
- Never mean to women, saw that in my house, my parents never fought, my dad never disrespected my mom, so I was always reluctant to fight with my wife and she always said she wanted that. Her parents had a good marriage but fought through things, worked them out in the open.

I keep going in circles but when it comes down to it, not matter what I did, it hardly ever seemed to please my STBXW. I just need to get over that no matter what I would have done, said, etc, this would have still happened but that's the guilt I'm trying to get past. That I could of some way, stopped this, prevented this.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

UPDATE:. Enough items happened in the past few weeks it's time for a worthwhile update. 

Things are progressing smoothly with her moving out and me getting the house refinanced in my name. She will likely be out in a month. Divorce won't be finalized til at least and of June and settlement date is not til end of July if we don't agree on everything beforehand. She signed a purchase agreement on house last week so that why there's not much resistance at all to getting everything switched over to me with this house.

Possessions and assets aren't an issue as of now. We have agreed to most of that but it will be interesting to see what she packs up. 

Which brings me to my big thing tonight. Man is she one stone cold human being. I made her a jar filled with a note for each day for a year with nice things said on them and the jar was decorated. She pulled off all the decorations on the outside, dumped the notes in the trash and then kept the jar lol. She took all of the notes and cards that have been saved up over the years and tossed them in the trash. Even anniversary cards that were from her to me. Even stuff like letters my dad wrote to her thanking her for putting on a nice Thanksgiving one year. Seems like she is trying to erase that the marriage even existed. I know her version of the marriage as she sees it now as far different from what she wrote in those cards but damn ... Seems like the scorned person would do stuff like this. Not the one that is essentially leaving on their own.

I have good days and not so good days but I can see the light. I was having a pretty good day til I saw that sh**. I know it's over I know it's all a cluster fudge from her side of things and in her brain but damn, hard to see how cold hearted she can be to toss that stuff away like it never existed. But then again she tossed away the whole ideal of this marriage and the 4 of us being a family with the same cold calculated motives. 

Good topic for my counselling session next week.


----------



## farsidejunky

She is trying to punish you.

To some degree, it is working...more manipulation.

Stay the course. The pain will subside eventually, brother.


----------



## GusPolinski

stillfightingforus said:


> UPDATE:. Enough items happened in the past few weeks it's time for a worthwhile update.
> 
> Things are progressing smoothly with her moving out and me getting the house refinanced in my name. She will likely be out in a month. Divorce won't be finalized til at least and of June and settlement date is not til end of July if we don't agree on everything beforehand. She signed a purchase agreement on house last week so that why there's not much resistance at all to getting everything switched over to me with this house.
> 
> Possessions and assets aren't an issue as of now. We have agreed to most of that but it will be interesting to see what she packs up.
> 
> Which brings me to my big thing tonight. Man is she one stone cold human being. *I made her a jar filled with a note for each day for a year with nice things said on them and the jar was decorated. She pulled off all the decorations on the outside, dumped the notes in the trash and then kept the jar lol. She took all of the notes and cards that have been saved up over the years and tossed them in the trash. Even anniversary cards that were from her to me. Even stuff like letters my dad wrote to her thanking her for putting on a nice Thanksgiving one year. Seems like she is trying to erase that the marriage even existed. I know her version of the marriage as she sees it now as far different from what she wrote in those cards but damn ... Seems like the scorned person would do stuff like this.* Not the one that is essentially leaving on their own.
> 
> I have good days and not so good days but I can see the light. I was having a pretty good day til I saw that sh**. I know it's over I know it's all a cluster fudge from her side of things and in her brain but damn, hard to see how cold hearted she can be to toss that stuff away like it never existed. But then again she tossed away the whole ideal of this marriage and the 4 of us being a family with the same cold calculated motives.
> 
> Good topic for my counselling session next week.


It should’ve been _you_ that threw out all the notes, cards, etc.

Start beating her to the punch on things like this — taking control of these situations will take away her ability to punish you. It will help you to detach even further. Plus it will both frustrate her and amuse you.

How is the lint collector doing?


----------



## Marc878

I suspect she's always been this way somewhat but you had blinders on.

Take a real good look at reality. Put what's remaining of her pedestal in the trash with her ****.

You need to learn from your mistakes in dealing with her or you'll likely repeat.


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> @sokillme
> 
> In response to our post in the other thread;
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
> Are you on medication? Are you afraid to be angry? Have you been taught that anger is wrong? Have you been shamed?
> Not to thread jack but to answer;
> 
> - No Medication
> - Not afraid to be angry but real easy going and easily turn the other cheek unless I feel I have been disrespected hardcore. Dad and Brother taught me how to fight, stand up for myself
> - Hmm on shamed, not been shamed but I guess I'm not real comfortable being macho around people I don't know very well. Like not doing stuff that a lot of guys do and don't hold back. Bodily noises, being crude, etc
> 
> I think it really comes down to how I deal interact with girls, especially those that I put on a pedestal vs. everyone else.
> 
> Outside of my marriage, I did what I wanted for the most part, demanded respect, wasn't afraid to take charge, get angry, get results ... ran the show in a lot of ways. Inside my marriage, I let her wear the pants too much and let her do what she wanted and encouraged it because that is what I thought she wanted and would make her happy, which nothing seemed to make her ultimately happy for long but it did seem like the last few years were getting easier and better, she even said so the year before the affair. When I asked her that months ago, she said she just gave up, she just was putting on a happy face, a show, whatever she said that was good was lying to me and herself.
> 
> Long story short, two strong men role models in my life but for me;
> 
> - Assertive in life
> - Not assertive with women, really shy
> - Never mean to women, saw that in my house, my parents never fought, my dad never disrespected my mom, so I was always reluctant to fight with my wife and she always said she wanted that. Her parents had a good marriage but fought through things, worked them out in the open.
> 
> I keep going in circles but when it comes down to it, not matter what I did, it hardly ever seemed to please my STBXW. I just need to get over that no matter what I would have done, said, etc, this would have still happened but that's the guilt I'm trying to get past. That I could of some way, stopped this, prevented this.


OK finally got back to this. Sorry I forgot. 

So you need to stop with the women are angles stuff. There not they are just as ****ty as the rest of us. Some are good and some are bad, and you need to call them on their bull****. This is actually what everyone who is healthy wants. They don't want a yes man they want someone who will challenge them and keep them strong. Trust me, see how well your thinking worked out for you last time? Change this.

How much of this is really just fear. Like we are talking about in the other thread about nice guys. Lots of nice guys are KISA and stuff because that is the only way they can get women to like them. Or once they have a partner they feel that is the only chance they are ever going to get so they are desperate to do anything to keep the person even when they there partner treats them like ****. They allow themselves to be abused. But that is not true, it's all lies. 

The best way to fix this I think would be to date around for a while. Get a sense that you can have some success from women, and also try to establish relationships as pears and not master slave. Seriously dude you are hurting yourself here.


----------



## sokillme

stillfightingforus said:


> UPDATE:. Enough items happened in the past few weeks it's time for a worthwhile update.
> 
> Things are progressing smoothly with her moving out and me getting the house refinanced in my name. She will likely be out in a month. Divorce won't be finalized til at least and of June and settlement date is not til end of July if we don't agree on everything beforehand. She signed a purchase agreement on house last week so that why there's not much resistance at all to getting everything switched over to me with this house.
> 
> Possessions and assets aren't an issue as of now. We have agreed to most of that but it will be interesting to see what she packs up.
> 
> Which brings me to my big thing tonight. Man is she one stone cold human being. I made her a jar filled with a note for each day for a year with nice things said on them and the jar was decorated. She pulled off all the decorations on the outside, dumped the notes in the trash and then kept the jar lol. She took all of the notes and cards that have been saved up over the years and tossed them in the trash. Even anniversary cards that were from her to me. Even stuff like letters my dad wrote to her thanking her for putting on a nice Thanksgiving one year. Seems like she is trying to erase that the marriage even existed. I know her version of the marriage as she sees it now as far different from what she wrote in those cards but damn ... Seems like the scorned person would do stuff like this. Not the one that is essentially leaving on their own.
> 
> I have good days and not so good days but I can see the light. I was having a pretty good day til I saw that sh**. I know it's over I know it's all a cluster fudge from her side of things and in her brain but damn, hard to see how cold hearted she can be to toss that stuff away like it never existed. But then again she tossed away the whole ideal of this marriage and the 4 of us being a family with the same cold calculated motives.
> 
> Good topic for my counselling session next week.


She cheated on you and gasslite you making you think the whole thing was your fault. She is a pretty despicable person dude. If you fix your picker, learn to demand your worth and heal, once you find a decent girl you are going to remember in shock at what you were willing to put up with. Shock at what you actually thought was decent. Your ex wife sucked, and she sucked from the first post on here.


----------



## sokillme

Marc878 said:


> you need to learn from your mistakes in dealing with her or you'll likely repeat.


OP this is the most important sentence on this whole thread. I hope you take this to heart.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

farsidejunky said:


> She is trying to punish you.
> 
> To some degree, it is working...more manipulation.
> 
> Stay the course. The pain will subside eventually, brother.


That is what is so crazy .. I guess aside from what she tried to say in that I caused her years of pain beforehand (not loving her the way she deserved to be loved, not talking to her on some occasions, not sleeping in the bed enough and not giving her enough words of affirmation) she has admitted I'm a good man, a great dad and (one of the issues) a NICE GUY. Why so much effort to cause pain to a guy that frankly treated her nice when others wouldn't our entire lives together? But as my counselor said everything she does is basically a projection onto me and others. Her words and attitude her entire life about how poorly she thought of others doing everything she has done over the past year. 

I'm not going to date or even dip my toes into the pool until everything is finalized in July. It's more important to me to stick to what I hold important in my life and that's honoring my own promises and vows. When it's all said and done, the fact that I was able to stick to what I believe in and want my kids to look up to is much more important than instant gratification and distraction. There will be plenty of time for that. I've started to even be a little cold and bitter to her in the past month or so. That's not me. I've made a conscious decision to be nice and cordial but not back down to anything either. Then once she is gone, it will be ghosting aside from kids schedules. Nothing else and that can be done with old fashioned emails. I'm going to get my son a phone for his birthday coming up before she leaves and I'll communicate to him and his sister through that route. He's about due anyway .. as he starts Middle School in the Fall. 

I have these little setbacks of wtf like last night but overall I see the light and the conscience decision to just be me from her on out has found me a bit of peace. And when mean me, I mean what I am at the core with Version 3.0 upgrades to be a good guy not a 'nice guy'!


----------



## Marc878

You have to be the bad guy to justify her actions. This isnt that complicated and is very typical.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Marc878 said:


> You have to be the bad guy to justify her actions. This isnt that complicated and is very typical.


Even more reason to be myself and to not give her that.


----------



## Marc878

When you learn to go your own way totally ignore her and not give a damn what she thinks or says you'll get to where you should have been a long time ago.

You are the only one that can keep yourself tied up in this.


----------



## Jasel

*sigh* An hour and a half I can't get back after reading this thread. Going through this was ****ing painful. I actually have a slight headache from wincing so many times while reading OP's posts. I think this is another thread that would make a good sticky as an example of how not to handle your spouse's affairs. It was just reading mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake while ignoring some pretty good advice from what I read.

I actually think the wife did him somewhat of a favor by not stringing him along. The way OP has acted during all of this, if she had wanted she could have strung him along, had guys hidden on the side, and still have him eating out of the palm of her hand. I think the only thing that has made this move forward is the fact she's made it quite clear she wants nothing to do with him and really wants that divorce.

Although, even though she didn't string him along, it was mitigated by him not wanting to see the forest for the trees, spinning his wheels, and wasting months of his time on a wife who basically ****s on his head and then wipes her ass with his bare hand for good measure. Which is fine, it's his life but damn. I have to give kudos to some of the members here for sticking it out. I would have had to bow out of this one.


----------



## BluesPower

sokillme said:


> She cheated on you and gasslite you making you think the whole thing was your fault. She is a pretty despicable person dude. If you fix your picker, learn to demand your worth and heal, once you find a decent girl you are going to remember in shock at what you were willing to put up with. Shock at what you actually thought was decent. Your ex wife sucked, and she sucked from the first post on here.


This is so completely true. And brother you have got to get a different attitude with women in general. 

But I will assure you this, when you really find a good women that loves you, and you realize that she never loved you at all, right?..... When you find a good one, it will change your life.

Since I have been with my GF, this relationship is the best one ever, hands down. I have been with a lot of OK girls, but I never really believed that women like her existed, and believe me I went through a bunch of them. 

When you get a good one, you are going to want to beat yourself in the head with a hammer for EVER being with your STBXW, frankly you won't really believe it at first. 

Just hang in there...


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Jasel said:


> *sigh* An hour and a half I can't get back after reading this thread. Going through this was ****ing painful. I actually have a slight headache from wincing so many times while reading OP's posts. I think this is another thread that would make a good sticky as an example of how not to handle your spouse's affairs. It was just reading mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake while ignoring some pretty good advice from what I read.
> 
> I actually think the wife did him somewhat of a favor by not stringing him along. The way OP has acted during all of this, if she had wanted she could have strung him along, had guys hidden on the side, and still have him eating out of the palm of her hand. I think the only thing that has made this move forward is the fact she's made it quite clear she wants nothing to do with him and really wants that divorce.
> 
> Although, even though she didn't string him along, it was mitigated by him not wanting to see the forest for the trees, spinning his wheels, and wasting months of his time on a wife who basically ****s on his head and then wipes her ass with his bare hand for good measure. Which is fine, it's his life but damn. I have to give kudos to some of the members here for sticking it out. I would have had to bow out of this one.


I agree with a lot here and the truest thing in this statement was about her doing me a favor by not even attempting to really cake eat. I am willing to take my lumps here because they are deserved but to be honest, the only thing I really lost in all of this was time. 

- I think it's clear that even if I would have taken the advice from the get go, it wouldn't have mattered. In my counseling sessions but counselor continues to be amazed at her skill in manipulation, maybe one of the best(worst) she has ever heard of. Having said that, if I would have come here from beginning of the discovery in June and not in October, there might have been a chance to turn the tide but to the advice of those here and my counselor, what good would have that done, probably would have been a finger in the dam.

- I fudged up by keep giving chances and outs for her to come back in but for whatever reason I wanted to be absolutely sure I had tried everything humanly possible to go out of this with a clear conscience. If I would have done what was advised in October I would have never found out the real truth (In December). I would have gone out of this with the feeling of yeah, she had a few kisses and an EA with this dude but had quite a few doubts in myself of whether it was just because I was a $***** husband or not. By staying the course and plucking away I was able to uncover everything. A lot of good it did since it didn't change anything and his wife took him right back and they did the same thing from January to March and she took him back again but for me ... I found out the truth, the whole truth and it is what will help me ultimately move on from this garbage. I know, I shouldn't have needed this but I did and I got it. Counselor was proud of me for getting the 'closure' there.

- Even though I took my lumps from her and went out like a passive punk in so many ways, I never lost sight of what was most important. I compartmentalized the struggles I had with Wonder Woman and didn't waver from being the best Dad that I could be. When I knew things were really going down hill, I secured the legal aspect in November to know that I would have at least 50/50 custody and would be protected financially.

I would have done a lot of things differently if I were to do it over again but not sure the outcome would have been much different, just would have been further ahead in my own process. Like I had mentioned, even as I wavered with giving her chances, I was continually working in the background and as we move forward;

- I am about to secure the house in my name only
- kids will be with me at least 50% of the time
- I am keeping everything I need and want in the house
- About the only thing she will be getting from me is half the equity in the house but that will get evened out in other ways as we get closer to a final settlement. (She makes a lot more than I do)
- Mr. Nice Guy was treated as such in this case but I will walk out of this with my head held high and trying to do the right things by everyone involved. I will keep my ring on until the day the divorce is official and then call it a day, the final chapter in this volume of my life. 
- And last but not least, the things she said to me, the way I was left on the side of the road for dead in this past year rebuilt the chip, the fire in my belly to be a better version of myself than ever, to go out and conquer the world again. 

The saying was so true in this case with me. Bane had said to Batman in TDKR, "Peace has cost you your strength .... victory has defeated you". It is true, I had thought my life was good, i had put out the fire, let go of the regrets and thought I was good to go but I had lost the fire to dominate. And as the fire went out, it was even more impossible to light again as I felt as if I was drowning over the past year underwater. Things are starting to dry out and I have the motivation I haven't had in years, it's coming back slowly but surely and I have learned a lot.

Still Fighting For Us, carries the same meaning for me now as I will always fight for those that are most important in my life. I do it all for my kids, I do it for me and for those that I can help with my own story in the future. That is what drives me now ....


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> Her skills in manipulation are so good ... *people that know of the affair feel sorry for her*. Which would be normal in a normal amicable divorce but not in a divorce where the person that cheated repeatedly is the one that projected all of the blame and wanted the divorce.
> 
> If they reboot Coming To America, she would fill in for Eddie Murphy if needed because of the cast of characters she can play.


SFFU - As I said to you before, think of this as a blessing. She's done the heavy lifting for you to determine who your true friends are. Better to have a few true friends than a large number of backstabbers.


----------



## Lostinthought61

you really need to build a psyche self-defense when she pulls this crap...your answers should always be the say

"It so sad that you have to justify your cheating by putting me down, but if that is what you need to do to suppress your guilt go ahead" I just don't need to accept, nor hear" You will never talk to me again unless it is about our child or the divorce" "Your pathetic attempt to hide your guilt is wasted on me"


----------



## oldtruck

stillfightingforus said:


> I agree with a lot here and the truest thing in this statement was about her doing me a favor by not even attempting to really cake eat. I am willing to take my lumps here because they are deserved but to be honest, the only thing I really lost in all of this was time.
> 
> - I think it's clear that even if I would have taken the advice from the get go, it wouldn't have mattered. In my counseling sessions but counselor continues to be amazed at her skill in manipulation, maybe one of the best(worst) she has ever heard of. Having said that, if I would have come here from beginning of the discovery in June and not in October, there might have been a chance to turn the tide but to the advice of those here and my counselor, what good would have that done, probably would have been a finger in the dam.
> 
> - I fudged up by keep giving chances and outs for her to come back in but for whatever reason I wanted to be absolutely sure I had tried everything humanly possible to go out of this with a clear conscience. If I would have done what was advised in October I would have never found out the real truth (In December). I would have gone out of this with the feeling of yeah, she had a few kisses and an EA with this dude but had quite a few doubts in myself of whether it was just because I was a $***** husband or not. By staying the course and plucking away I was able to uncover everything. A lot of good it did since it didn't change anything and his wife took him right back and they did the same thing from January to March and she took him back again but for me ... I found out the truth, the whole truth and it is what will help me ultimately move on from this garbage. I know, I shouldn't have needed this but I did and I got it. Counselor was proud of me for getting the 'closure' there.
> 
> - Even though I took my lumps from her and went out like a passive punk in so many ways, I never lost sight of what was most important. I compartmentalized the struggles I had with Wonder Woman and didn't waver from being the best Dad that I could be. When I knew things were really going down hill, I secured the legal aspect in November to know that I would have at least 50/50 custody and would be protected financially.
> 
> I would have done a lot of things differently if I were to do it over again but not sure the outcome would have been much different, just would have been further ahead in my own process. Like I had mentioned, even as I wavered with giving her chances, I was continually working in the background and as we move forward;
> 
> - I am about to secure the house in my name only
> - kids will be with me at least 50% of the time
> - I am keeping everything I need and want in the house
> - About the only thing she will be getting from me is half the equity in the house but that will get evened out in other ways as we get closer to a final settlement. (She makes a lot more than I do)
> - Mr. Nice Guy was treated as such in this case but I will walk out of this with my head held high and trying to do the right things by everyone involved. I will keep my ring on until the day the divorce is official and then call it a day, the final chapter in this volume of my life.
> - And last but not least, the things she said to me, the way I was left on the side of the road for dead in this past year rebuilt the chip, the fire in my belly to be a better version of myself than ever, to go out and conquer the world again.
> 
> The saying was so true in this case with me. Bane had said to Batman in TDKR, "Peace has cost you your strength .... victory has defeated you". It is true, I had thought my life was good, i had put out the fire, let go of the regrets and thought I was good to go but I had lost the fire to dominate. And as the fire went out, it was even more impossible to light again as I felt as if I was drowning over the past year underwater. Things are starting to dry out and I have the motivation I haven't had in years, it's coming back slowly but surely and I have learned a lot.
> 
> Still Fighting For Us, carries the same meaning for me now as I will always fight for those that are most important in my life. I do it all for my kids, I do it for me and for those that I can help with my own story in the future. That is what drives me now ....


I understand how your need for the truth kept you trying to find answers.
So much easier to of spent months now getting to the bottom of things
instead of being left wondering for 30+ years what really happened.

You have now gotten to a better place armed with the truth sooner and
farther then you would of have ever gone without the truth.


----------



## Edmund

SFFU,

I can't understand how you can be so wise and helpful to other people on their threads, but can't seem to apply that wisdom to your own case? I am still following your story over on SI. Your wife is so cruel, having no concern for what she is doing to you emotionally. How she can walk into church every week like adultery is no problem is a mystery to me.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Edmund said:


> SFFU,
> 
> I can't understand how you can be so wise and helpful to other people on their threads, but can't seem to apply that wisdom to your own case? I am still following your story over on SI. Your wife is so cruel, having no concern for what she is doing to you emotionally. How she can walk into church every week like adultery is no problem is a mystery to me.


I think it's always easier when on the outside looking in. That's why I can apply what I have learned and what I have and haven't done in my own situation. 

I have taken everything that was offered to me here and put into the banks for processing and utilized a lot of it, many things, too late but still very helpful in the scope of things. What I have learned through almost 6 months of counseling now is that there's nothing I really could have done to change this, she is who she is. I coulda, woulda shoulda but in the end the same result was most likely. The only thing that may have changed anything, simply, if she hadn't run back into her soulmate from 8 years ago. She made it clear in her messages to him that he is 'the one'. And it was fate she found him again.

She should be off to her new house in a few weeks if we can get this legal agreement signed and cranked out shortly. Which will guarantee her the equity when the divorce is final in a few months. I go through good and bad days but have been keeping myself busy with ideas and plan on how to make the house my own and the kids. I mean it is now but most of the inspiration of the house is from her, as it was her dream to design her own house and all that went with it when we had it built 4 years ago.

Like I have said to my family and friends that continue to assure me that I will be better off, I could do better, nicer, prettier, more loyal, etc, that I will have no issues with options. I know that but I guess it's the KISA and Codependency that I am still working on when it comes to her. My whole life i have been the person that helps people, the bond that held groups of friends together and the rock and shoulder for people to lean on. I know I can do better, that's not an issue. I just wanted to play my entire career and then retire with one team, that was my dream and my vision ... burying that dream for a new one is what I am working on and in the mean time, filling my time with a restored drive to go out and conquer the world again ... with my kids at my side.


----------



## BluesPower

stillfightingforus said:


> Like I have said to my family and friends that continue to assure me that I will be better off, I could do better, nicer, prettier, more loyal, etc, that I will have no issues with options. I know that but I guess it's the KISA and Codependency that I am still working on when it comes to her. My whole life i have been the person that helps people, the bond that held groups of friends together and the rock and shoulder for people to lean on. I know I can do better, that's not an issue. I just wanted to play my entire career and then retire with one team, that was my dream and my vision ... burying that dream for a new one is what I am working on and in the mean time, filling my time with a restored drive to go out and conquer the world again ... with my kids at my side.


My young brother, honestly, if it took six months of counseling to get this far, well thank god you started 6 months ago.

You know what you could have done to prevent this, not marriage this woman. Listen, I understand you issues with codependency, and KISA which is kind of CD on steroids in a way.

But man, you have got to pull you head out of your butt. You have deluded yourself into believing that she was a good woman. Hey, guess what, she was not, she never was, and she never will be. Everyone on the internet can see it, Why can't you!

You know you want to be with one team, pick a better team, hell Babe Ruth changed teams. 

You want to romanticize what you THINK you had. I am tell you, that you never had it at all. It was never there and to romanticize it now in any way is delusional. 

I am not trying to crawl up your butt, but brother, please stop thinking like that. Is it just that you cannot admit your were a fool. 

I can, I was a fool to stay with my ex a long as I did, I was a complete and utter moron in every way. And all that crap about making marriage work is just that...Crap. 

There, now you say it, I feel better, and I think you will too. 

The first step in getting over this stuff is to accept that you were a fool and vow to never EVER be a fool again. 

Now you try it...


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

https://youtu.be/rmf1AYgYj6I

Listen to this song. You are getting ready to find out how much better your life will be without the narcissistic one in your life. 

Ps: change the locks and door codes so once it is final she cannot get in


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> https://youtu.be/rmf1AYgYj6I
> 
> Listen to this song. You are getting ready to find out how much better your life will be without the narcissistic one in your life.
> 
> Ps: change the locks and door codes so once it is final she cannot get in


 And you are the 2nd or third person to recommend that this week alone!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

BluesPower said:


> My young brother, honestly, if it took six months of counseling to get this far, well thank god you started 6 months ago.
> 
> You know what you could have done to prevent this, not marriage this woman. Listen, I understand you issues with codependency, and KISA which is kind of CD on steroids in a way.
> 
> *But man, you have got to pull you head out of your butt. You have deluded yourself into believing that she was a good woman. Hey, guess what, she was not, she never was, and she never will be. Everyone on the internet can see it, Why can't you!*
> 
> You know you want to be with one team, pick a better team, hell Babe Ruth changed teams.
> 
> You want to romanticize what you THINK you had. I am tell you, that you never had it at all. It was never there and to romanticize it now in any way is delusional.
> 
> I am not trying to crawl up your butt, but brother, please stop thinking like that. Is it just that you cannot admit your were a fool.
> 
> I can, I was a fool to stay with my ex a long as I did, I was a complete and utter moron in every way. And all that crap about making marriage work is just that...Crap.
> 
> There, now you say it, I feel better, and I think you will too.
> 
> The first step in getting over this stuff is to accept that you were a fool and vow to never EVER be a fool again.
> 
> Now you try it...


I can see it, like I had told someone close to me this week. What's crazy is that the cheating hurts the most in terms of betrayal but it's the way she treated me over the past year that has fueled my fire and my real anger for motivation. Good people don't do what she did to me, not even including the affair ****.

Maybe I didn't do a good enough job of explaining what i meant in my latest post. I am not mourning her anymore, I'm upset over having to bury the dream and the vision I had, that's what sucks. I have a lot of new challenges to look forward to but also the main objective of making sure my kids get through this as best as possible. I'm not going to date or even look until this is officially done in a few months. I hold my vows high as part of my bedrock. I no longer have to have and hold, be there in sickness in health, as a common phrase on these boards ... she fired me from that job. It's a technicality but I will remain 'faithful' until the court sounds the final buzzer and then I will retire my ring and work on my 'game'


----------



## Edmund

stillfightingforus said:


> It's a technicality but I will remain 'faithful' until the court sounds the final buzzer and then I will retire my ring and work on my 'game'


So, did the final buzzer sound yet?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Edmund said:


> So, did the final buzzer sound yet?


10 days from today .....


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> 10 days from today .....


I had several final dates/hearings set only to be disappointed with last minute foolish from team crazy. I hope yours sticks and she pulls no surprises at the 11th hour.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

honcho said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 days from today .....
> 
> 
> 
> I had several final dates/hearings set only to be disappointed with last minute foolish from team crazy. I hope yours sticks and she pulls no surprises at the 11th hour.
Click to expand...

And forgot to knock on wood. Got 11th hour email from lawyer today about BS that could delay things and muddy the waters but I'm clean, so it just delays the inevitable. If anything it could backfire for her.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

DjDjani said:


> *REDACTED BY MODERATOR*


I think your assessment is somewhat off base sir. Maybe he was weak at first, but SSFU has found his inner strength and has decided to move forward without a cheating wife. I had concerns initially when I read his first series of posts. He gets it now.
When the fog his STBXW is in dissipates, she will realize what a **** up she is.

SSFU. To quote a legend from my neck of the woods Pat Sumitt....”left foot, right foot, breathe and repeat”:wink2:


----------



## Edmund

stillfightingforus said:


> 10 days from today .....


Well... did you win?


----------



## Yeswecan

stillfightingforus said:


> And forgot to knock on wood. Got 11th hour email from lawyer today about BS that could delay things and muddy the waters but I'm clean, so it just delays the inevitable. If anything it could backfire for her.


Good things come to those that wait. I suspect the last minute monkey business is the result of a possible unfavorable outcome for your stbxw. Damage control as it were. Hang tough!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Yeswecan said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> And forgot to knock on wood. Got 11th hour email from lawyer today about BS that could delay things and muddy the waters but I'm clean, so it just delays the inevitable. If anything it could backfire for her.
> 
> 
> 
> Good things come to those that wait. I suspect the last minute monkey business is the result of a possible unfavorable outcome for your stbxw. Damage control as it were. Hang tough!
Click to expand...

Stumbling block was taken care of with no issues. All agreements are in place now. Just a matter of formal court date for judge to sign off on now but her lawyer wasn't available yesterday and mine isn't next Monday so it's looking like July 2nd for finalization. Kids are doing good but I think my younger one is now feeling the effects of what it actually means now as she has been very emotional the last few days.


----------



## turnera

Take her on walks. It was the one thing I did with my daughter, all her life, and that was where she felt safe sharing her feelings and we had time to work things out on walks.


----------



## Edmund

stillfightingforus said:


> Stumbling block was taken care of with no issues. All agreements are in place now. Just a matter of formal court date for judge to sign off on now but her lawyer wasn't available yesterday and mine isn't next Monday so it's looking like July 2nd for finalization. Kids are doing good but I think my younger one is now feeling the effects of what it actually means now as she has been very emotional the last few days.


Still think you should have told them the truth so they don't blame you. Your STBXW will be hanging with jackass POS OM soon. Don't let her tell them she just met him recently.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Edmund said:


> Still think you should have told them the truth so they don't blame you. Your STBXW will be hanging with jackass POS OM soon. Don't let her tell them she just met him recently.


Well the good news, for now, is that my proposal into the decree to prevent contact with romantic interests on either side for at least 6 months after the divorce pass through.

I am not sure even then I'll have to worry so much about OM(an) it will probably be OM(en) as the 50/50 chance of him leaving his wife seems to be slanting more and more to staying with his wife. I have no concrete evidence on this but it's just a gut feeling of mine. When they see each other it will still be during work hours or shall I say when they should be working but don't do much of that and are in jobs that allow it with little oversight.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

turnera said:


> Take her on walks. It was the one thing I did with my daughter, all her life, and that was where she felt safe sharing her feelings and we had time to work things out on walks.


Thank you. In comparison to my STBXW, I am probably a helicopter parent but in the true sense of the term not. So I do spend a lot of time with the kids and especially with my youngin. I still read to her every night that she is at my house and we talk a bit after that as she falls asleep and I lay on the floor. We also go on walks around the neighborhood where she rides her bike and I walk next to her. My counselor has helped me look out for things from here and give her validation even when she says silly things. Whereas I used to laugh when she would say outrageous things, I listen and let her know that i'm listening to everything she is saying.


----------



## anchorwatch

stillfightingforus said:


> Well the good news, for now, is that my proposal into the decree to prevent contact with romantic interests on either side for at least 6 months after the divorce pass through.


Good news? Don't get carried away. 

How do you think that stipulation is even enforcible? The same way she followed her marriage vows?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

anchorwatch said:


> Good news? Don't get carried away.
> 
> How do you think that stipulation is even enforcible? The same way she followed her marriage vows?


That is a good point but throwing her vows in the trash was not illegal, if she doesn't follow the decree, we end up in court and could affect parenting time?


----------



## anchorwatch

stillfightingforus said:


> That is a good point but throwing her vows in the trash was not illegal, if she doesn't follow the decree, we end up in court and could affect parenting time?


I understand the law. You'll need to grasp the reality of things. It's not one and the same. 

BTW, I don't mean criminal OPs. 

You'd have to have verifiable, undeniable proof of an opposite-sex op in the abode with the children overnight... not he said, she said, my kid said uncle somebody was there. Then have the funds and the chutzpah to go in front of an overburdened court for a minor violation that will shortly be commonplace at her house. 

Try to find someone that not only got that enforced but got some terms changed in the decree for it. 

You'll get it, Charlie Brown. You're tied to her for a long time. You'll get there. 



Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> That is a good point but throwing her vows in the trash was not illegal, if she doesn't follow the decree, we end up in court and could affect parenting time?


While lawyers toss language like that into agreements it's more often than not very difficult to enforce and unless she picks some winner like a convicted felon or similar the courts won't care. This is divorce reality. Expect her to break that part of the agreement.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

honcho said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is a good point but throwing her vows in the trash was not illegal, if she doesn't follow the decree, we end up in court and could affect parenting time?
> 
> 
> 
> While lawyers toss language like that into agreements it's more often than not very difficult to enforce and unless she picks some winner like a convicted felon or similar the courts won't care. This is divorce reality. Expect her to break that part of the agreement.
Click to expand...

She may indeed break it. We can only hope she doesn't but my end of the bargain will be held up.


----------



## Edmund

stillfightingforus said:


> Well the good news, for now, is that my proposal into the decree to prevent contact with romantic interests on either side for at least 6 months after the divorce pass through.


Refer to @MovingForward experience as to how well this works or can be enforced. But my point is her story will be they met after the divorce. You can correct this, that they met in 2009.


----------



## MJJEAN

stillfightingforus said:


> That is a good point but throwing her vows in the trash was not illegal, if she doesn't follow the decree, we end up in court and could affect parenting time?


 Here those agreements are impossible to enforce unless you have court level proof they are sexually involved. Otherwise, the standard is for the person violating the agreement to claim the romantic interest is just a friend and not subject to the agreement stating no romantic partners be introduced.

Also, it's fairly common for divorce decrees to include something like "no unrelated members of the opposite sex may stay the night when the children are in residence". Usually, the romantic interest leaves in the wee hours of the morning to skirt the agreement. Technically, going home 3 am isn't staying the night.


----------



## Wolfman1968

stillfightingforus said:


> Stumbling block was taken care of with no issues. All agreements are in place now. Just a matter of formal court date for judge to sign off on now but her lawyer wasn't available yesterday and mine isn't next Monday so it's looking like July 2nd for finalization. Kids are doing good but I think my younger one is now feeling the effects of what it actually means now as she has been very emotional the last few days.


 Everything in place? OK.

I saw earlier in this thread that you had plans to raid your retirement to buy out her equity of the house.

I hope the final agreement doesn't have you doing this. 

I stupidly liquidated almost all of my retirement monies when I divorced my ex. Worst. Decision. Ever.

To this day my retirement plans suffer from that. It's easy to think you will make it up later when you're younger, but in reality you never really recover. Lose that early compounding interest, and you can never catch up. I'm a baby boomer sliding into the home stretch before retirement, and I still kick myself. (The 1968 in my name refers to a year certain events in my life occurred, NOT when I was born). 

In all this emotional drama, don't overlook protecting your financial future. Take it from me, it's better to sell your house and split the equity rather than trash your future. I know earlier in the thread you posted that the counsellor recommended keeping the kids in the house, but there are worse thing than moving, and an impoverished retirement is one of them.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

SFFU,

The sooner she is out of your life, you are going to have the feeling when you swim and stay underwater holding your breath for a long time, and then burst to the surface to take in a huge surge of air. You will be able to breath life in again.

You will be reborn so to speak, and will realize you are better off, and things are going to be better. I would encourage you to tell the children the truth “Mom had a boyfriend and decided she no longer loved your daddy.” If you do not, trust me on this, she will play you off as the bad guy. 

Get in to the gym as much as possible. Avoid junk food, and eat healthy meals and you will feel better in no time at all. Become a lean, mean, dating machine.

As for six months....really? She lied, she cheated, and can you really expect her to abide by any agreement. Once you start dating again, be sure and post photos on social media. Trust me,she will stalk you. Best revenge is showing her you are having fun and are better off with her gone.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Wolfman1968 said:


> Everything in place? OK.
> 
> I saw earlier in this thread that you had plans to raid your retirement to buy out her equity of the house.
> 
> I hope the final agreement doesn't have you doing this.
> 
> I stupidly liquidated almost all of my retirement monies when I divorced my ex. Worst. Decision. Ever.
> 
> To this day my retirement plans suffer from that. It's easy to think you will make it up later when you're younger, but in reality you never really recover. Lose that early compounding interest, and you can never catch up. I'm a baby boomer sliding into the home stretch before retirement, and I still kick myself. (The 1968 in my name refers to a year certain events in my life occurred, NOT when I was born).
> 
> In all this emotional drama, don't overlook protecting your financial future. Take it from me, it's better to sell your house and split the equity rather than trash your future. I know earlier in the thread you posted that the counsellor recommended keeping the kids in the house, but there are worse thing than moving, and an impoverished retirement is one of them.


Between balancing our retirements and giving her the equity, I ended eating about half of my retirement. Not ideal but I was able to do this without touching my liquid assets, keeping the house and getting this thing done with in terms of all the agreements. I go in an sign the final judgement today but I from what I gather, I still have to appear in court at some point, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I understand what you are saying and it makes sense but not only by keeping the kids in that house, it was a moral thing. When I get the fire back in my belly, the carrot to chase after, it gives me the incentive to go out and kick a$$ for my family and in a sense for myself. My retirement is a big part of my future but it's not the only piece of the puzzle. I have a start-up that I co-founded about 8 years ago that I'm hoping will be the bigger piece of the puzzle in the future. Problem is with those, you could make lots of $$ when selling the company or more likely, it goes to ZERO and you start over again lol. I feel good about keeping the house and I don't plan on retiring for about 50 years  I know I will change my mind at some point and want to call it a day, I actually did that a few years ago when things started to look a lot better between us, the stress was lifting, the kids were getting older and we were able to do more things as a couple again, so I could see the happiness start to shift from me putting my auxiliary energy into the business and taking care of the family's financial future to not caring so much about having all the fun things. Being with her started to really become fun again .... again, as the kids got older. That's why it hit me 2x as hard when last year happened, I not only had the upheaval but it just seemed like we were getting there.

Still on a roller coaster of highs and lows but the lows are becoming more infrequent. The last few months have not been ideal in relation to my entire scope of life but compared to June-December of last year, it's light years better. I uncertainty, the unknown, the fear and the not knowing which way was up. Thank God for not being in that state of mind anymore.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> SFFU,
> 
> The sooner she is out of your life, you are going to have the feeling when you swim and stay underwater holding your breath for a long time, and then burst to the surface to take in a huge surge of air. You will be able to breath life in again.
> 
> You will be reborn so to speak, and will realize you are better off, and things are going to be better. I would encourage you to tell the children the truth “Mom had a boyfriend and decided she no longer loved your daddy.” If you do not, trust me on this, she will play you off as the bad guy.
> 
> Get in to the gym as much as possible. Avoid junk food, and eat healthy meals and you will feel better in no time at all. Become a lean, mean, dating machine.
> 
> As for six months....really? She lied, she cheated, and can you really expect her to abide by any agreement. Once you start dating again, be sure and post photos on social media. Trust me,she will stalk you. Best revenge is showing her you are having fun and are better off with her gone.


It has been easier since she has been gone to her new house over the past few weeks. I am no longer faced with the 'face' of pain and what was inflicted upon me on a daily basis and healing can truly begin. The downside is not having the kids 50% of the time but I am using that to get sh$$ done around the house. Starting new projects, caring about the landscaping for the first time in my life, etc.

It's not the right time but there will come a time when I want the kids to know, more than anything ... that this was not what marriage was supposed to be, that when things get tough, you just don't bail, it takes two people that made the commitment and vows in front of God to honor them and to work on them daily. My kids know they can tell me anything and we have good talking times (story time at night, walks during the day, dinner together at the table, etc). Even if unflattering things are said which I don't think will be the case, at least for now, my kids will see what I'm made of and who I am and always have been.

My lifting plan is going well but I'm starting to hit plateaus with weight and I'm sick of eating! I feel like I am preparing for a pregnancy and looking at my watch, oh, time to eat again. Grilled Chicken for lunch today, same as the last two days  My knee is still fudged from my Junior Year (HS) in football but I've committed to actually not skipping leg day each week so even with the issues in my knee, the strength I'm building up around it has added a little bit more burst to my first step in my basketball game. As a side note, interesting fact, it's crazy that I've had more concussions playing pickup basketball than I did through 6 years of tackle football, mainly from playing basketball with guys on the football team here at the University I work at.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

stillfightingforus said:


> It has been easier since she has been gone to her new house over the past few weeks. I am no longer faced with the 'face' of pain and what was inflicted upon me on a daily basis and healing can truly begin. The downside is not having the kids 50% of the time but I am using that to get sh$$ done around the house. Starting new projects, caring about the landscaping for the first time in my life, etc.
> 
> It's not the right time but there will come a time when I want the kids to know, more than anything ... that this was not what marriage was supposed to be, that when things get tough, you just don't bail, it takes two people that made the commitment and vows in front of God to honor them and to work on them daily. My kids know they can tell me anything and we have good talking times (story time at night, walks during the day, dinner together at the table, etc). Even if unflattering things are said which I don't think will be the case, at least for now, my kids will see what I'm made of and who I am and always have been.
> 
> My lifting plan is going well but I'm starting to hit plateaus with weight and I'm sick of eating! I feel like I am preparing for a pregnancy and looking at my watch, oh, time to eat again. Grilled Chicken for lunch today, same as the last two days  My knee is still fudged from my Junior Year (HS) in football but I've committed to actually not skipping leg day each week so even with the issues in my knee, the strength I'm building up around it has added a little bit more burst to my first step in my basketball game. As a side note, interesting fact, it's crazy that I've had more concussions playing pickup basketball than I did through 6 years of tackle football, mainly from playing basketball with guys on the football team here at the University I work at.


I have to laugh at your injuries from hoops. I played high school basketball and broke my hand, my foot, several ribs, my nose twice, and three fingers all in four years. Played four years of high school football, four years of college football, and never broke a bone in football. :smile2:


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> I have to laugh at your injuries from hoops. I played high school basketball and broke my hand, my foot, several ribs, my nose twice, and three fingers all in four years. Played four years of high school football, four years of college football, and never broke a bone in football. :smile2:


My last concussion was about 3 years ago. Coaches and a lot of the guys on the football team that played HS Basketball get together and play full court in the Summer. I used to play with them a lot more but have eased up as I have gotten older and am trying to preserve my knee, etc. 

I was guarding the Starting Tight End on the team, dude goes about 6'5" 260, so I'm giving up about 4 inches and about 70 lbs but made up the difference with quickness, angles, etc. He goes up for an offensive rebound and I'm right under him and he's agitated with me because of my on the ball defense throughout the game. So I know this was know damn accident. He comes down with the rebound easily over me but then comes down across my nose with his elbow. I started to see stars and blacked out for a second or 2 and then 10 seconds later, it was like a faucet opened on my nose. I ran to the bathroom before I bled out on the court but once I got there, it was was everywhere. I was pi$$ed and the cheap shot, so I spent 5 minutes cleaning up the blood on the ground and on the sink and then ran out and told the guy that came in for me, I was going to go back in. It wasn't the smartest thing but for some reason after I get concussions and I come to, I get this anger in me. I finished out the game and played some of my best ball but after the game was done, started to get a little woozy called it an afternoon, took a shower and went back to work.

A year later, I tore ligaments in my throwing hand playing pick-up at the YMCA. That was actually a blessing in disguise as I didn't want to stop working out but I couldn't play basketball for 4 months. So I took up running for the first time in my life and got the hang of it and now I have something to fall back on when I can no longer be competitive in sports.


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> ...I ended eating about half of my retirement... Not ideal but I was able to do this without touching my liquid assets, keeping the house and getting this thing done with in terms of all the agreements. My retirement is a big part of my future but it's not the only piece of the puzzle... I have a start-up that I co-founded about 8 years ago that I'm hoping will be the bigger piece of the puzzle in the future. Problem is with those, you could make lots of $$ when selling the company or more likely, it goes to ZERO and you start over again lol. I feel good about keeping the house and I don't plan on retiring for about 50 years


SFFU - While you may never catch up totally with your retirement savings, you do need to be very disciplined in trying to rebuild your nest egg. If you have a 401-k, be sure to contribute enough to maximize your employer match. While I envy your 50 year retirement horizon, just be aware that your 401-k contributions go away when you retire from your employer, and any traditional IRA contributions (if you are still drawing a paycheck) go away by the time you turn 70.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Are you still attending services at the same church?


----------



## Archangel2

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Are you still attending services at the same church?


Forgot about that! Time for a change of parish. Thanks for reminding me LH.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

My pleasure. He needs to tell his former pastor sayonara padre.


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## SentHereForAReason

At this point I am still going to the same parish but on the opposite day that STBXW goes. Last weekend, her weekend with kids. I didn't even go. My faith, the true faith that matters to me has not been shaken but my faith in the physical church and people that run it, needless to say, is at an all-time low. 

I would like to think I would have already been parish shopping if it was just our place of worship but it's also my kids school, my son having gone there for 8 Years, Daughter for 4.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

What is the pulse of your pastor? Does he know she was a cheater? Is she still a Eucharistic minister?

Is she rewriting history as to why she is divorcing?

A pal of mine had a wife similar to yours she divorced him, A few months later POSOM dumped her and went back to his wife. She came running back to my pal asking him to take her back. Thankfully, he told her no f’n way. 

I say this so you are aware this will likely happen in next few months. Stand your ground. Do not take her back. You deserve better.


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## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> What is the pulse of your pastor? Does he know she was a cheater? Is she still a Eucharistic minister?
> 
> Is she rewriting history as to why she is divorcing?
> 
> A pal of mine had a wife similar to yours she divorced him, A few months later POSOM dumped her and went back to his wife. She came running back to my pal asking him to take her back. Thankfully, he told her no f’n way.
> 
> I say this so you are aware this will likely happen in next few months. Stand your ground. Do not take her back. You deserve better.


Deep down I think the Pastor is a good man and may have been snowed over even though he's a pretty smart guy. He took over for the Bishop when our Bishop had cancer about 10 years ago. He will be retiring as soon as they make a decision on building a new church or not, it's been a project that they have been working forever and he wanted to see it through to the end. Coincidently, she has been on that planning group since Day 1. 

Rewriting history would be the understatement of the year with her. I could write a book on that subject alone!


----------



## MovingForward

Edmund said:


> Refer to @MovingForward experience as to how well this works or can be enforced. But my point is her story will be they met after the divorce. You can correct this, that they met in 2009.


Yes this is unenforceable so just a 'gentleman' agreement basically.

I also gave up my entire 401k to buy my X-wife out of the house and at first I was very happy with it and still think a good idea as I have a lot of equity but still want to cry when i Realize i have no retirement saved. I am hoping 29 years to catch up is enough but I for sure will not be retiring early but my XW may be able to :frown2:.


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## SentHereForAReason

MovingForward said:


> Yes this is unenforceable so just a 'gentleman' agreement basically.
> 
> I also gave up my entire 401k to buy my X-wife out of the house and at first I was very happy with it and still think a good idea as I have a lot of equity but still want to cry when i Realize i have no retirement saved. I am hoping 29 years to catch up is enough but I for sure will not be retiring early but my XW may be able to :frown2:.


I ended up losing about half all in all. Mine is not exactly a 401K but a 403B so it works a little bit differently and is actually a nice benefit from my employer.


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## MovingForward

stillfightingforus said:


> I ended up losing about half all in all. Mine is not exactly a 401K but a 403B so it works a little bit differently and is actually a nice benefit from my employer.


How old are you if you dont mind me asking?


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## SentHereForAReason

MovingForward said:


> How old are you if you dont mind me asking?


38 but I look younger


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## MovingForward

stillfightingforus said:


> 38 but I look younger


:lol::lol::lol:

Losing half is not so bad then, in my state it is community property so lose 50% automatically but I gave other half for house.

Good luck with the future.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

MovingForward said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Losing half is not so bad then, in my state it is community property so lose 50% automatically but I gave other half for house.
> 
> Good luck with the future.


Thanks buddy, you too!


----------



## Edmund

MovingForward said:


> I am hoping 29 years to catch up is enough but I for sure will not be retiring early but my XW may be able to :frown2:.


I hope some day you get even with her monetarily. What she did to you is unconciousable(sp?).


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

stillfightingforus said:


> Deep down I think the Pastor is a good man and may have been snowed over even though he's a pretty smart guy. He took over for the Bishop when our Bishop had cancer about 10 years ago. He will be retiring as soon as they make a decision on building a new church or not, it's been a project that they have been working forever and he wanted to see it through to the end. Coincidently, she has been on that planning group since Day 1.
> 
> Rewriting history would be the understatement of the year with her. I could write a book on that subject alone!


I would get your spin out there my good man. Best revenge is simply living a good life. I hope you find you a pretty, kind and considerate companion soon.


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## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> At this point I am still going to the same parish but on the opposite day that STBXW goes. Last weekend, her weekend with kids. I didn't even go. My faith, the true faith that matters to me has not been shaken but my faith in the physical church and people that run it, needless to say, is at an all-time low.
> 
> I would like to think I would have already been parish shopping if it was just our place of worship but it's also my kids school, my son having gone there for 8 Years, Daughter for 4.


SFFU -I think you would feel so much better if you did go parish shopping. As far as your kids are concerned, I'm sure Father Tom will not say a word to you if you continue to put all your envelopes in throughout the year. It will be better for your emotional and spiritual health if you were to join another parish and leave behind the hellish reminders you went through these last few years.

On another front, since you are only 38, you may be able to catch up on your 403-B if you can maximize your contribution going forward. Does your employer provide a match?


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## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> SFFU -I think you would feel so much better if you did go parish shopping. As far as your kids are concerned, I'm sure Father Tom will not say a word to you if you continue to put all your envelopes in throughout the year. It will be better for your emotional and spiritual health if you were to join another parish and leave behind the hellish reminders you went through these last few years.
> 
> On another front, since you are only 38, you may be able to catch up on your 403-B if you can maximize your contribution going forward. Does your employer provide a match?


There's really not a match aspect, it's sort of like a pension/retirement plan hybrid. I don't really have to contribute anything do it, if I could put in more I would.

New court date for finalization is July 9th. 

I took my kids to a Harry Potter event this past Saturday. It was fun and the kids enjoyed it, it was about 2 and a half hours away from home and within about 10 minutes of where STBXW and I used to live when we were dating and we were both in college (away from our hometown) and where we became 'one' and had the best time of our lives before kids. Brought back a lot of memories, especially taking the route to get there that I would take to visit her before I moved there. It's still a roller-coaster but instead of a constant pain or grieving process it seems to come and go with triggers.

Still hard to grasp how someone that was supposed to stand for something could do all of this but I also realize it happened, it is happening and there's no logic in these types of situations, just moving on one step at a time even when it stings. That's what I have done best all of my life, when things were down, when things sucked, I continued to press on because I knew the feeling was current but the reward was at the end of the tunnel, even like know when I can't fully visualize it.

EDIT: Also, I am entertaining the idea of trying out a new church the weekends I don't have the kids.


----------



## BluesPower

stillfightingforus said:


> Still hard to grasp how someone that was supposed to stand for something could do all of this but I also realize it happened, it is happening and there's no logic in these types of situations, just moving on one step at a time even when stings. That's what I have done best all of my life, when things were down, when things sucked, I continued to press on because I knew the feeling was current but the reward was at the end of the tunnel, even like know when I can't fully visualize it.


Unfortunately, this is the way that it is. Frankly, I think most of us never understand and never will. 

But the only thing that you have to remember is that you did your best, it was not your fault, and you can hold your head high. 

Got to tell you, I have never, ever for a second regretted divorcing my wife. And the fact that she struggles despite what I pay her is not my issue in any way. 

The way that I look at it, you had your chance, I did my best, if you are having issues, that is your issue.

In fact, I had to speak to her on the phone the other day, and she was whining to me about her finances and finally I just had to say... I am sorry, but I don't give a S*** about your problems.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

BluesPower said:


> Unfortunately, this is the way that it is. Frankly, I think most of us never understand and never will.
> 
> But the only thing that you have to remember is that you did your best, it was not your fault, and you can hold your head high.
> 
> Got to tell you, I have never, ever for a second regretted divorcing my wife. And the fact that she struggles despite what I pay her is not my issue in any way.
> 
> The way that I look at it, you had your chance, I did my best, if you are having issues, that is your issue.
> 
> In fact, I had to speak to her on the phone the other day, and she was whining to me about her finances and finally I just had to say... I am sorry, but I don't give a S*** about your problems.


lol, I would like to be that blunt but it's just not me. So when I get messages every few days that are kid related. I respond, I am respectful but short.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

You will get your chance to show her what she gave up. Keep hitting the gym, work on a better you. I would encourage you to read “The Power of Now” by Eckhardt Tolle. Excellent book. Never forget what she did to you, but forgiveness is mandatory if you are to heal and be a solid person for your next mate.

Be like Sgt. Joe Friday from the old TV show Dragnet when you converse with your ex....”just the facts”. Do not let her see you hurt.
Be like an old oak tree when you are around her.


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## SentHereForAReason

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> You will get your chance to show her what she gave up. Keep hitting the gym, work on a better you. I would encourage you to read “The Power of Now” by Eckhardt Tolle. Excellent book. Never forget what she did to you, but forgiveness is mandatory if you are to heal and be a solid person for your next mate.
> 
> Be like Sgt. Joe Friday from the old TV show Dragnet when you converse with your ex....”just the facts”. Do not let her see you hurt.
> Be like an old oak tree when you are around her.


I'll check that book out!


----------



## honcho

stillfightingforus said:


> lol, I would like to be that blunt but it's just not me. So when I get messages every few days that are kid related. I respond, I am respectful but short.


You should be more blunt at times, it's not you because your a nice guy but that gets taken advantage of unfortunately. You can be blunt and a nice guy at the same time. I can be very "blunt" at times and it sure saves a great deal of needless debate or listening to stuff I don't care about haha!


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## BluesPower

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> You will get your chance to show her what she gave up. Keep hitting the gym, work on a better you.
> 
> Be like Sgt. Joe Friday from the old TV show Dragnet when you converse with your ex....”just the facts”. Do not let her see you hurt.


This is so true, and while I know SFFU is still hurting, that hurt will go away after some time. And then, wow, life gets so good when your heart catches up with your logical mind. 

She will start sniffing around after a while. Probably, when SFFU starts to look his best, feel his best, and he has a little hottie on his arm. 

Revenge is best served cold...


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## SentHereForAReason

Well, just a quick update on the formality part. Divorce was finalized today at courthouse in front of a judge today at 2PM. Waiting in courtroom for judge for about 20 minutes, then took less than 10 to go over yes/no questions and him signing off. 

Talked to Lawyer in meeting room after, where she handed me decree. She told me she understood I didn't want this to happen and that I tried everything but she could just tell from now EW's demeanor, she was 'done'.

Today is a step. Not a happy step, not a celebratory step but a step. I move forward, I move on. I know I will be ok. I will continue to focus on rebuilding my new life, with the kids staying as center stage. I know I can find someone that compliments me and adds to life's happiness but all in all one of the quotes I read here from a poster over the past week stuck with me. That you have one shot to give everything (100%) to one person. That is what I truly wanted. That doesn't mean I can't be happy or happier with anyone else sort to speak but it tanked my vision of one wife, one life, forever. But what can I do, it was not my choice.

I took my ring off as I walked out of the courtroom and proceeded to walk to my car, no words exchanged with EW, didn't even look that way as she walked to her truck. 3 months and 2 days shy of our 15th Wedding Anniversary, I will rebuild my life. I am still not focused on filling the role for the immediate future. I will continue to rebuild myself and throw myself into being a father, home projects, work and my side business and whatever other hobbies come along for the ride. The other 'stuff' will come in due time when I'm ready.

Thank you for all of your help over the past 9 months. It has really opened my eyes to some new thoughts, philosophies and outlooks on the outside world, people, etc. I move forward with understand the differences between a good guy and a nice guy. My life has been built around looking out and taking care of others, that is what brings me pride. It's easy for me to be happy on my own because I don't need outside validation to feel worth.

I don't look on the past 18 years as a waste of time but experiences and a life if I had to do it over again, I would change some of the smaller things but would do it all over again. I will remember the good times and of course, the two precious lives that were created in the process that will bring me happiness as long as I am on this planet as well. 

I look at the last 18 years as me going for it on fourth down with the championship on the line. I was stopped inches short of everything but it was because the other team committed several penalties that were not called and allowed to skate by. Instead of complaining to the ref. I'm going to take the loss and learn from it. Next time, regardless of pass interference, I won't be stopped. I didn't officially win this time but I can hold my head high, knowing I went about the game the right way and with dignity.


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## Kamstel

Great way of looking at it

Now go out and win the next Super Bowl.

As Belichick says, “Just do your job!” 
Your job is to be the best man and best father you can be.

Now go out there and get ‘em!!!!


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## CantBelieveThis

Well done, best wishes for you, you deserve it

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## seadoug105

Today is duplicitous. 

It is closure & an opening.
It is sad & happy
It provides Answers & More questions
It is and end to a struggle and the beginning of another

I am sad that your are at this point to begin with, however I happy you have a level of finality to this chapter.

From that you must take what makes you stronger, wiser, & more courageous. In turn you must use that strength, wisdom, & courage to stand tall, make the decision, and develop/maintain the patience needed to help your children cope best, thrive as the little humans the are, and grow in to the best most well adjusted adults possible.


I wish you the strength in the the universe, tonight! Stay healthy & share all that love you reserved for her with your children.


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## Kamstel

Has SeaDoug ever been on the wrong side of an issue or not said the perfect thing?


What SeaDoug said is perfect


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## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> I look at the last 18 years as me going for it on fourth down with the championship on the line. I was stopped inches short of everything but it was because the other team committed several penalties that were not called and allowed to skate by. Instead of complaining to the ref. I'm going to take the loss and learn from it. Next time, regardless of pass interference, I won't be stopped. I didn't officially win this time but I can hold my head high, knowing I went about the game the right way and with dignity.


SFFU - Today is the first day of the rest of your life. In the words of St. Paul, you have fought the good fight. After you've had time to heal and regenerate, I hope you find someone who will truly put you at the center of her life, and not someone like your ex who said you were a consolation prize when she was looking to get married.


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## Edmund

May God bless you, SFFU. Hope you find happiness.


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## Archangel2

SFFU - Hope you are doing well. I thought about you at mass on Sunday during the Gospel (the part about shaking the dust from your sandals...) Hope you are having fun parish shopping.


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## SentHereForAReason

Archangel2 said:


> SFFU - Hope you are doing well. I thought about you at mass on Sunday during the Gospel (the part about shaking the dust from your sandals...) Hope you are having fun parish shopping.


Thank you! One day at a time, one day at a time as I slowly move forward with goals to continue being the best father I can be and to become a better man as well. Gospel of Matthew ... That's a damn good name 😉


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## oldtruck

Hold your head up you gave it your all.
Each day forward brings opportunity.


----------



## StillSearching

SFFU I'm right there with you. Mine is not quite final but she never checked into the marriage.
Keep your head up and aim forward.
If you fulfill your obligations everyday you don't need to worry about the future. 
Godspeed, I know i'm up next.


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## SentHereForAReason

Wanted to mention my trip to Ohio to visit my Brother and his family for the weekend. It was fun. I 'let my hair' down but not in the trying to go out and tag something sense, just in a enjoying myself sense.

My sister-in-law is eager to get me out in the open to start doing some as she calls it 'stupid sh**', because she knows I have never done that in my life and thinks it would be good for me. She wanted to start creating dating profiles for me as we went out to a bar on Saturday night lol. 

PART OF ME - is not ready because I'm just not ready. My goals are my kids are self-improvement. I am super f'ing focused on my workout regimen now and aside from my kids is my only happy place right now. When I am in the gym I am a different person but it's kind of always been like that. I am nearing the best shape of my life but I still am far from my goals of having a literal 6-pack and trying to be chiseled from head to toe. These goals are powering my motivation and my diet along with home improvement projects, landscaping, etc. It's the downtime, which I try to limit, that sucks right now.

THE OTHER PART OF ME - is frankly, I'm nervous as Hell. I'm a shy dude when it comes to women. I've been told by everyone I will have no problem 'pulling' women, that I will have plenty of options but fortunately for someone that would appreciate it in a marriage/relationship, not fortunate to me since I'm divorced now ... I'm just not built that way. I'm loyal, I put women on a pedestal to a fault and it's not going to make me happy just to go out and start 'smashing'. It's not what drives me, so that's where I just need to keep working on myself until I feel confident not with myself, I am confident in myself but I am less than confident on my 'game'. 

I'll get there, like I said I'm nervous about it but I'm also excited about the prospects, the challenge. Outside of this BS I have been put through, a real tragedy when put into perspective, I love adversity and challenge. I've had it my whole life and it's created an infinite drive.

I think more than anything, I am just looking forward to having someone to talk to (of the opposite sex) someone to keep my mind busy and engage me. I truly think, once I start to enter into those relationships, I can start to really move on because the space in my mind not being occupied to kids, home, work, business, etc, the space that is being taken up by still thoughts of the life that was, can slowly be replaced by the life that will be.


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## SentHereForAReason

If there are some silver linings out of this f'd up situation to be had so far. It's the stuff that I immersed myself in to save the marriage, at least some of it, has merit to self improvement aside from the failed marriage. Just value as learning how to be a better me and the most important thing was for me to be more honest with myself about some things.

Case and point yesterday. I am someone who kinds of takes compliments and says thank you in a stoic voice and just moves on like it hasn't affected me. I acknowledge the nice gesture but my emotion doesn't change. I have been that way my whole life. Compliments are good, it's ok to smile and feel good about them, I don't deny that it feels good to be appreciated. 

Yesterday was something small but it made me smile and feel good for a bit. After I got my haircut, I got out of the chair and my stylist looked at me and kind of stepped back and said what the heck! I guess she didn't look up at me when I sat down before the cape got put on but she seriously thought I was on performance enhancement drugs and I had to convince her otherwise lol. It felt good and I took it for what it was worth.

I think the inability to process compliments to their full effect comes from me going to far off of one of the lessons my dad taught me. To do everything in life because it needs to be done because it's the right thing to do and not to expect praise, generosity or thanks. Just do it for the right reasons because if you do something and expect something in return, likely you will be disappointed. I'm starting to see that in a different perspective and probably what he actually meant. In the past, I didn't want praise to be my engine for success or what drove me because if that came short, I would lose the fire. So I had to be driven by a fire that was extinguish-proof. As I come out of this and see things in a new way and learn new things. It feels good to be appreciated and not feel guilty about it and not worry that it will affect my fire or goals.

One of the deep regrets I have that I have learned from, is that I wasn't emotional as I could have been with my EW. I thought I had to play the role of the rock, I was loving, caring, generous and put her first but I was a stoic SOB because I thought I had to be. I'm learning that it's ok to be vulnerable. I listened to a podcast months ago from a woman that being vulnerable is attractive. Vulnerable but not only knowing your issue but owning that $hit. That's the difference between a strong man that's vulnerable vs. a man that has issues and basically whines about them. 

Just trying to improve one step at a time, one day at a time ......


----------



## BluesPower

stillfightingforus said:


> If there are some silver linings out of this f'd up situation to be had so far. It's the stuff that I immersed myself in to save the marriage, at least some of it, has merit to self improvement aside from the failed marriage. Just value as learning how to be a better me and the most important thing was for me to be more honest with myself about some things.
> 
> Case and point yesterday. I am someone who kinds of takes compliments and says thank you in a stoic voice and just moves on like it hasn't affected me. I acknowledge the nice gesture but my emotion doesn't change. I have been that way my whole life. Compliments are good, it's ok to smile and feel good about them, I don't deny that it feels good to be appreciated.
> 
> Yesterday was something small but it made me smile and feel good for a bit. After I got my haircut, I got out of the chair and my stylist looked at me and kind of stepped back and said what the heck! I guess she didn't look up at me when I sat down before the cape got put on but she seriously thought I was on performance enhancement drugs and I had to convince her otherwise lol. It felt good and I took it for what it was worth.
> 
> I think the inability to process compliments to their full effect comes from me going to far off of one of the lessons my dad taught me. To do everything in life because it needs to be done because it's the right thing to do and not to expect praise, generosity or thanks. Just do it for the right reasons because if you do something and expect something in return, likely you will be disappointed. I'm starting to see that in a different perspective and probably what he actually meant. In the past, I didn't want praise to be my engine for success or what drove me because if that came short, I would lose the fire. So I had to be driven by a fire that was extinguish-proof. As I come out of this and see things in a new way and learn new things. It feels good to be appreciated and not feel guilty about it and not worry that it will affect my fire or goals.
> 
> One of the deep regrets I have that I have learned from, is that I wasn't emotional as I could have been with my EW. I thought I had to play the role of the rock, I was loving, caring, generous and put her first but I was a stoic SOB because I thought I had to be. I'm learning that it's ok to be vulnerable. I listened to a podcast months ago from a woman that being vulnerable is attractive. Vulnerable but not only knowing your issue but owning that $hit. That's the difference between a strong man that's vulnerable vs. a man that has issues and basically whines about them.
> 
> Just trying to improve one step at a time, one day at a time ......


There is a lot of good here, but a lot to think about for you and everyone...

In some ways you are/were like a lot of us are, but not for the reasons that you think necessary.

For me and a lot of men, I did the right thing because it was the right thing to do, never expecting a pat on the back, and not accepting them when they came. 

It is ok to do the right thing for the right reasons, but it is just as OK to accept compliments and not be above a little self promotion as well. 

In my youthful arrogance, I thought I was above being appreciated, because deep down I appreciated myself, but that was stupid. 

In one example for myself, I have been a musician all of my life, and a super good one at what I do. Way above average. But I almost shunned people that complimented me on my playing. One reason for that is that I always knew that I was not as good as I could be, if I spent more time practicing. 

A few years back, when I had an awakening about a lot of things, I realized that it was ok to feel good about how good a player I was on that day. I still somewhat embarrassed when people fawn over me about my playing but it have gotten to where I feel good about the compliments. 

And I know that whatever club I walk in to, more than likely, I will be the best or second best player there and it makes me feel good. 

Now as for being too stoic or too vulnerable, that is a balance and it come along with balancing your alpha/beta traits as well. 

You can only be vulnerable emotionally with a woman that you really trust, I mean really trust. If you are too vulnerable or do it too soon, then you can look weak. Wait too long and you are too stoic.

It is a balance, so stay in the middle and never come off weak for any reason, ever...


----------



## Archangel2

stillfightingforus said:


> ...
> 
> One of the deep regrets I have that I have learned from, is that I wasn't emotional as I could have been with my EW. I thought I had to play the role of the rock, I was loving, caring, generous and put her first but I was a stoic SOB because I thought I had to be. ......


Maybe so, but would it have made a difference with your ex? Did she not some time ago say in so many words that she married you because she felt pressured to get married and you were the only one available (the consolation prize)? You could have been the model of love, caring and generosity, but that wouldn't have been enough. You were not the love of her life.
So remember this when you start to date again sometime in the future. If you're not the center of your potential intended's world, run, don't walk away as fast as you can.


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## Rubix Cubed

stillfightingforus said:


> I listened to a podcast months ago from a woman that being vulnerable is attractive.


 I'd venture being "vulnerable" is attractive to that woman, but just as many will see it as weak. It's a catch 22, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. BTDT, screw the T-shirt.


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## SentHereForAReason

Just wanted to post a quick update, I think I'll post a whole retrospective one after the new year, with a little more detail on how life is, a roadmap in my own words and recommendations of what the newbies can expect, from a full circle aspect.

Today would have been my/our 15th Anniversary. I think today seems like just another day because of the 'suffering' I went through last year while still technically married, not sure of what was really going on and still fighting like Hell to fix/save the marriage. In a sense, I mourned everything even before the official divorce as finished this past July.

Today I am in a much better place, maybe even on a path for a life of my own that will be happier and more fruitful than I could have imagined, one that I thought possible when I was a kid and had the hopes and dreams of what my life would be like in a relationship. 

I still would have never chosen the path of divorce if reconciliation had been committed to on the other side but that was out of my control and because of it, I need not feel guilty of the things that are here for me now in life and that await me, that are bringing me happiness. My life philosophy has not changed. I still believe the true path to happiness is giving yourself to others, giving the gifts we are born with and passing them on. My true happiness comes from giving, from making others smile and from helping others. I think if anything has changed it's my perspective on giving and giving without the gifts, in some shape or fashion, coming back to me. To give myself but in return to get 'their' self.

When I entered the sh**storm of last year, I considered myself the strongest person, mentally and emotionally, that I knew and it almost broke me but I now realize because of the strong base and just weathering the storm, that if you have a stable base and a strong mentality in life, you will be just fine, maybe even better. If you go through the storm and were never centered or stable to begin with, chances are it's not going to look good after the storm either, which is why I strongly recommend getting as much help as humanly possible.

As I have said, I will post a more detailed journey update in the New Year but for now, I'm doing good, kids are doing decent and as far as EW, who knows, that's another part of the journey. Where at some point in the past 1-2 months, I don't even think of her as someone I was married to anymore, not even an EW but basically, the kids' mother. No animosity, no feelings, just their mom. God is Good, life is good .... but only if we choose it to be!


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## Edmund

You are a good man sir. That you can be at peace so soon after the way you were treated shows that. God bless you.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

SentHereForAReason said:


> Just wanted to post a quick update, I think I'll post a whole retrospective one after the new year, with a little more detail on how life is, a roadmap in my own words and recommendations of what the newbies can expect, from a full circle aspect.
> 
> Today would have been my/our 15th Anniversary. I think today seems like just another day because of the 'suffering' I went through last year while still technically married, not sure of what was really going on and still fighting like Hell to fix/save the marriage. In a sense, I mourned everything even before the official divorce as finished this past July.
> 
> Today I am in a much better place, maybe even on a path for a life of my own that will be happier and more fruitful than I could have imagined, one that I thought possible when I was a kid and had the hopes and dreams of what my life would be like in a relationship.
> 
> I still would have never chosen the path of divorce if reconciliation had been committed to on the other side but that was out of my control and because of it, I need not feel guilty of the things that are here for me now in life and that await me, that are bringing me happiness. My life philosophy has not changed. I still believe the true path to happiness is giving yourself to others, giving the gifts we are born with and passing them on. My true happiness comes from giving, from making others smile and from helping others. I think if anything has changed it's my perspective on giving and giving without the gifts, in some shape or fashion, coming back to me. To give myself but in return to get 'their' self.
> 
> When I entered the sh**storm of last year, I considered myself the strongest person, mentally and emotionally, that I knew and it almost broke me but I now realize because of the strong base and just weathering the storm, that if you have a stable base and a strong mentality in life, you will be just fine, maybe even better. If you go through the storm and were never centered or stable to begin with, chances are it's not going to look good after the storm either, which is why I strongly recommend getting as much help as humanly possible.
> 
> As I have said, I will post a more detailed journey update in the New Year but for now, I'm doing good, kids are doing decent and as far as EW, who knows, that's another part of the journey. Where at some point in the past 1-2 months, I don't even think of her as someone I was married to anymore, not even an EW but basically, the kids' mother. No animosity, no feelings, just their mom. God is Good, life is good .... but only if we choose it to be!


You are doing well. You have been through tha **** storm and you found out you are stronger than you initially thought you were, and best of all, you are detaching from you ex. Stay in this direction and focus on you. You will have some tough days like today, but you will be fine. Keep up the time in the gym and it will make you feel better as well as keep your mind occupied. Now, have you read one of my motivational friend’s books I recommended? He will make you feel like you can conquer the world after watching his videos and reading his books.:smile2:


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## Sports Fan

I can't believe you are being this nice to her. Just a word of warning. The Divorce won't be as amicable as you think. She is a self entitled brat that wants joint custody of the children and ownership of the house to boot. She has already told you several times she blames everything on you.

The best thing you could do is hire yourself a shark of a Divorce Lawyer and push hard for Primary Custody of the kids and the house. And stop communicating with her or trying to reason with her. Show some balls and courage and maybe she might just gain some self respect for you when she realises that you are not going to tolerate her garbage and that you are fully prepared and willing to offer up consequences for her foul behavour.


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## SentHereForAReason

Sports Fan said:


> I can't believe you are being this nice to her. Just a word of warning. The Divorce won't be as amicable as you think. She is a self entitled brat that wants joint custody of the children and ownership of the house to boot. She has already told you several times she blames everything on you.
> 
> The best thing you could do is hire yourself a shark of a Divorce Lawyer and push hard for Primary Custody of the kids and the house. And stop communicating with her or trying to reason with her. Show some balls and courage and maybe she might just gain some self respect for you when she realises that you are not going to tolerate her garbage and that you are fully prepared and willing to offer up consequences for her foul behavour.


Did you reply to the wrong post lol?

She moved out almost 5 months ago, Divorce has been final for over 3 months, custody was decided back in April and I re-financed the house in my name only back in May.

Life is good!


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