# Head in the sand?



## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

My husband Beowulf suggested I post this question as we are in slight disagreement over this issue.

Also, I realize that I'm posting this in the infidelity section. I also realize the types of answers I might be getting. Truth is I may indeed want/need a good wake up call so let me have it.

I work at a fairly small school. A few of us are fortunate enough to be able to take lunch together. I tend not to eat much during lunch because I'd rather wait until I get home so I don't feel uncomfortable during the day. I'm also very petite so my coworkers are always trying to get me to eat something.

A little while ago a man came to work at our school. He used to be a chef and in fact owned his own restaurant. He is recently divorced and says his wife cheated on him. He sometimes takes his lunch with me and my little group. He brings in food from home. Food he has made and because he was a chef it is always very good. When he offers some to the group I always take some. Recently a coworker made a comment when another friend offered me something to eat during lunch. She said, "I bet if it was Nick offering you food you'd take it huh?" I really didn't think of it at all but when my husband came home and I told him what she had said he feels she was trying to tell me something. He says this and other things I've mentioned before indicate that this guy is trying to get close to me. He tends to sit next to me. He has talked to me about his personal life a little. Sometimes when I'm struggling to carry something he runs over and helps me. He says that by me accepting food from him all the time and interacting like I do I may be sending him signals. I don't see it that way at all. What is the general feeling here? Is Beowulf right? Am I unknowingly sending signals? Is this guy maybe trying to get closer to me than I should allow.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Beowulf is right, IMO.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Is your colleague not right when they say "I bet if it was Nick offering you food you'd take it huh?"?


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> Is your colleague not right when they say "I bet if it was Nick offering you food you'd take it huh?"?


No, my colleague is right but not because of who is offering the food. Its because he was a chef and the food is very good. I don't eat a lot but when something is good I will eat it. When the others in our group offer me something its usually chips, or cookies or something prepackaged. If its homemade and good I might take some. I don't think its because of Nick that I take food when he offers but its because what he makes is tasty and not the usual lunch fare.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Way back when I was single, I knew(*) that if a girl accepts me paying for her meal on a date, she is DTF.



(*) Yes I was young and arrogant generalizing like that. Still, there was never a case to the contrary.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Beowolf is right. You're leading him on. Have your husband come to a lunch. Let him see you passionately kiss your husband, Hello and goodbye. That should be enough of a message. One thing for sure, if the special lunches stop, you know what he was thinking.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

You should respect the boundaries. In this case, your husband is not comfortable.

I wish and hope you will see the concern.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

I'm reading not Just friends (actually I think Beowulf post suggested it?) but IMO too it sounds like he is more testing you-like putting out feelers or to see if you respond? Maybe since you now are aware it could be easier to sway the other direction. If others "see it" then I bet its happening.
I had a co-worker who was was 20 years older than me and I saw him as a father figure. When he made a pass to kiss me I was appalled and never talked again. NOW after reading this book I did give off all the signs and didn't realize it? I sort of feel bad I was so mean and horrible to him after that!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Perhaps it is less about the signals you are sending, and more about the signals you are not sending. Is it possible that you are too comfortable with the idea that he is just a nice co-worker so not viewing him as hitting on you? Because of that, you are not sending the signals indicating that you are not available?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Why should you let someone to think about coming close to you? Why should he (the chef) confide in you? Does he confide in others in the school?


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Perhaps it is less about the signals you are sending, and more about the signals you are not sending. Is it possible that you are too comfortable with the idea that he is just a nice co-worker so not viewing him as hitting on you? Because of that, you are not sending the signals indicating that you are not available?


That is very possible and that is what worries me. I don't want to send our signals that I'm interested in him at all. And I certainly don't want to make Beowulf uncomfortable. I wonder if there is any way I can have him drop off lunch to me without me seeing him. lol


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

If the coworkers are picking up on it, then I'd be careful to quash this man's interest. And never mind being afraid to appear rude; your husband is priority.

As we know, these things all start off soooo innocently.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't think its fair to say that you are sending signals. It is entirely possible that you are not seeing the signals that he is sending, though, when you compare them to the lack of such behavior between him and other women. Unfortunately, you can be sending no signals whatsoever, and some men will try to interpret it as a signal, because that is what they want it to be. Sorry, but some men are like that. So, if a man tends to be focusing his attention on you more than others, and another person notices, they'll make a deal out of it. My wife has struggled with this before, and had to be more guarded when she noticed that another man was singling her out.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't think you did anything intentionally. Sometimes you just can't be nice/friendly with people or they think you want something more. Even women can get weird about friendships.

I agree with your husband that Nick is fishing for your attention and has something for you.

You cannot control him. But you can control yourself. Just pull back  It's all good.

I'm a teacher too and you do get close to colleagues. My whole grade level is men. I work with 3 men who are amazing teachers. We only talk about work and our students and sometimes our kids at home/spouses. but...I don't get those vibes from them because I don't send those vibes out. They are great men. I love my grade level. I just don't spend more time with one than the other.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Has this guy crossed your Boundary? has he crossed Beowulfs?, can you let him know that he is maybe trying to get a little to close,without offending him...is he getting close with your other co-wokers? or just singling you out each time?


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Whenever he starts talking his personal life to you, just set in a plug about how happy you are with your husband.

Nothing sends a better message than mentioning your SO in positive manner.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I don't think you did anything intentionally. Sometimes you just can't be nice/friendly with people or they think you want something more. *Even women can get weird about friendships.*
> 
> I agree with your husband that Nick is fishing for your attention and has something for you.
> 
> You cannot control him. But you can control yourself. Just pull back  It's all good.


So true...I once got close with a woman whose son played on a team with mine. She got invasive. One time, she called, and I was on my way out so I didn't pick up. Between my home phone and my cell, she called me over 40 fricken times...And I'm pretty sure she cruised by my house, as well.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea! I plug my husband in there. They know I'm a good wife.  

But yea, women can get WEIRD too!! I was close with a female teacher a few years ago (grade level then) and she got JEALOUS when I got a boyfriend (she was married) and stalked me!  I'd run into her at the gym , the market ...she'd call me so much and get mad when I didn't answer.

Wooo!!! people are whack, yo.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Has this guy crossed your Boundary? has he crossed Beowulfs?, can you let him know that he is maybe trying to get a little to close,without offending him...is he getting close with your other co-wokers? or just singling you out each time?


That's a good question. I'm having a hard time answering it. I don't interact one on one with him other than when he holds a door open for me if I'm carrying something. All our other interactions are with the group. So I never gave it any thought until my coworker said that. Even then I really wasn't sure what she meant until Beowulf told me what he thought it meant. My reaction was "no way....you think?" I don't think its crossed Beowulf's boundary or he would have been more adamant about his feelings. Its more like he just wants me to be more aware of what may be happening.

I know for a fact that he is blatantly hitting on one of the school secretaries. She's married with two kids. It's disgusting. I haven't seen him getting close with anyone in our group but until recently I didn't think he was trying to get close to me either. For my coworker to say that though it must be somewhat obvious to everyone but me that he is paying me more attention right? Grr, I hate this stuff. Why can't people come with a sign on their heads indicating what's going on inside.


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## Standing_Firm (Mar 20, 2012)

One other thing......I strongly believe in realistic boundaries in a marriage. Being that you accepted food from this man in a setting where other people where present............maybe not so wrong, but things COULD be implied by others from afar. 

What if the situation presented itself where you just happened to take lunch and you two were the only ones present?? Could turn into an uncomfortable situation.............


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

He just sounds like a douche.

Maybe the woman who said it is jealous because she wants his attention.

You have done nothing wrong, IMO. This guy is just a total Larry. (from 3s Company).


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

Standing_Firm said:


> One other thing......I strongly believe in realistic boundaries in a marriage. Being that you accepted food from this man in a setting where other people where present............maybe not so wrong, but things COULD be implied by others from afar.
> 
> What if the situation presented itself where you just happened to take lunch and you two were the only ones present?? Could turn into an uncomfortable situation.............


I would never do that but having read here a while I already know how that sounds, lol.

What I'm really upset about is that this has got to be triggering Beowulf. I know my affair didn't occur at work but this has to be on his mind now. Looks like I'll be doing a lot of "comforting" this weekend. I'd better shave my legs and underarms again.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> He tends to sit next to me. *He has talked to me about his personal life a little*. Sometimes when I'm struggling to carry something he runs over and helps me.


Have you read *Not Just Friends*?. A man sharing his personal life with a married woman is always a potentially dangerous sign. Most affairs start innocently enough (you know this for a fact). He may turn out to be simply a nice guy but still do not allow yourself to be alone with this man or allow him to get "emotionally naked" with you. Just like driving defensively is always a wise choice, so is keeping marital boundaries.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> That's a good question. I'm having a hard time answering it. I don't interact one on one with him other than when he holds a door open for me if I'm carrying something. All our other interactions are with the group. So I never gave it any thought until my coworker said that. Even then I really wasn't sure what she meant until Beowulf told me what he thought it meant. My reaction was "no way....you think?" I don't think its crossed Beowulf's boundary or he would have been more adamant about his feelings. Its more like he just wants me to be more aware of what may be happening.
> 
> I know for a fact that he is blatantly hitting on one of the school secretaries. She's married with two kids.
> It's disgusting. I haven't seen him getting close with anyone in our group but until recently I didn't think he was trying to get close to me either. For my coworker to say that though it must be somewhat obvious to everyone but me that he is paying me more attention right? Grr, I hate this stuff. Why can't people come with a sign on their heads indicating what's going on inside.


Well him hitting on a married woman tells you everything you will ever need to know about him, he's fishing for you and others he will keep casting little bits of bait here and there until someone bites...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

The biggest indicator to me is your co-workers picking up on it.

First EAs can start just by having needs met. You are happy to see them and they you. Innocent enough it seems. But I suggest that without you being conscious of it that it is much about your body language than anything else. Those are signals.

We notice when a woman "lights up" in the presence of a man. They glow, there is tossing of the hair, a way of smiling and looking at someone. 

So how much do you look forward to seeing the chef? Are you disappointed when they are not there? These can be very subtle things. It is common for others to notice before we do. We just feel ok about things. They are just a friend after all. On the one hand it would seem that there is nothing really wrong with feeling good about a friend. But the chemicals can get working, Oxytocin and Dopamine and before we know it things start moving towards inappropriate behavior. 

He is sharing information about his marriage. Have you? 

Also as suggested it may not be the signals you are sending but the ones you are not.

Also at play is this man's personality. He may just be a certain way, is attracted to you and enjoys being with you. You are meeting some of his needs no doubt.

So now you have a co-workers comments, your husbands concerns and are posting on a marriage forum. 

Be aware that I was caught up in a workplace EA which others no doubt noticed including my wife. I was hiding nothing. I had nothing to hide. We had just grown close and were becoming very good friends. I ended up having to quit my job to go NC and I did not truly realize it was an EA until I was deep into withdrawal. I was absolutely sure that is was all about friendship. Much of it was, BUT, the chemicals ahd done their job. We were meeting needs for each other. We were just happy to around one another and something was missing when we were not. Just saying it can lead down that road. The road is much shorter than most folks realize.

Anyway, you might eant to try to chill this relationship. You may then notice that he turns up the heat and then you will know. You may find it difficult to do this. That will tell you a lot.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

How would you feel if the roles were reversed and it was Beowulf receiving food from a female who was always sitting next to him and trying to do nice things for him?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

What things did he share about his personal life?

I know personal things about the men I work with. One has an autistic son that he works with for 2 hours a night in therapy. One has a mother with alzheimers so badly, she tried to stab him one night-- thinking he was a burglar. The other guy ....i don't know much other than he is single and was a middle school teacher for 20 years.
I mean, people talk. They know about my family and my kids...I have to tell them because my husband and family come first--- so I don't stay after school. I can't meet on weekends, etc.

So what personal information is off limits (other than sex life)? I'm just curious, myself.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

morituri said:


> Have you read *Not Just Friends*?. A man sharing his personal life with a married woman is always a potentially dangerous sign. Most affairs start innocently enough (you know this for a fact). He may turn out to be simply a nice guy but still do not allow yourself to be alone with this man or allow him to get "emotionally naked" with you. Just like driving defensively is always a wise choice, so is keeping marital boundaries.


I have read the book but it was a while ago. I think I need to take it out and read it again. When he talked about his personal life it was in front of the group but maybe he was really talking to me. I wouldn't have thought it at the time but looking back...maybe. Looks like I'll have to start mentally pushing him away so that hopefully I stop sending signals or start sending the right ones. Ahhhh.

Its going to be hard to give up that food though. What that man can do with leftover chicken is criminal.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I do agree with the previous posters though. Just chill it a bit. I eat lunch alone...and I come on here LOLOL


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

bryanp said:


> How would you feel if the roles were reversed and it was Beowulf receiving food from a female who was always sitting next to him and trying to do nice things for him?


Beowulf has always had better boundaries than me. I don't even question that. I'm always the one who lets people get too close and have to watch myself. I didn't have good role models growing up so I've had to learn about boundaries as an adult. Honestly, knowing Beowulf I wouldn't worry. He's pretty aware of himself and others. But I do get your point.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Well him hitting on a married woman tells you everything you will ever need to know about him, he's fishing for you and others he will keep casting little bits of bait here and there until someone bites...


Yeah, I guess its becoming obvious although I never really had much of an opinion about him either way until recently. Now his food I have definite opinions of.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

EASY ONE!

Stop accepting his offers of food. If he tries to start a conversation with you about personal things, bring up a conversation about what a great weekend you had with your hubby and what a great guy he is!

You may not be sending the wrong signals but this guy is definitely probbing for possibilities


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

that_girl said:


> What things did he share about his personal life?
> 
> I know personal things about the men I work with. One has an autistic son that he works with for 2 hours a night in therapy. One has a mother with alzheimers so badly, she tried to stab him one night-- thinking he was a burglar. The other guy ....i don't know much other than he is single and was a middle school teacher for 20 years.
> I mean, people talk. They know about my family and my kids...I have to tell them because my husband and family come first--- so I don't stay after school. I can't meet on weekends, etc.
> ...


Mostly about his ex wife, his kids, his divorce and his defunct restaurant. He said he was working lots of hours to get his place established and his wife was spending lots of his money on luxuries. After a while he found out she was sleeping with a guy where she worked. She blamed him for working too much. He's also told us (me) about the divorce, the custody battle, the money split, the house having to be sold. And he's told us (me) about times he's gone out "on the town."

I've never talked about my personal life other than what I usually would to the group. Maybe its possible he's feeling closer to me because he learned about me that way?


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

I heard once that men interpret the actions of other men much differently than women, because they know how men think and we don't. This is the reason men are so tough when boys start coming around to visit their daughters!

That being said, you work with this person so you have to be careful to handle it in a professional, yet matter-of-fact and friendly way. While I don't feel you have done anything wrong, you may need to speak up. It doesn't have to be weird or uncomfortable...

Remember that you can't stop people from trying to sell you something.....but you can definitely decide what to buy!

For me, EVERYONE knows I am gaga over my H. Once my mom ordered pizza and everyone was practically fainting over the looks of the delivery guy....I just sighed and said, "He is almost as beautiful as my husband."

A few comments like this within earshot of this male fellow at work ought to do the trick if he secretly is harboring any fantasy of a tryst with you.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea, he shared a lot. I could see talking about the restaurant, cause that's interesting! but the other stuff....yea..if you didn't ask, he shouldn't offer. You're not a therapist. He just wanted you to know he was available AND that he was the victim. Awww poor guy :rofl:


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Next time he brings food, eat some then run to the bath room, come back all sickly looking and in front of everyone and say " OMG I just threw that up, think I may have got food posioning, what the hell did you just serve me" ...Bam... he will avoid you like the plauge.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I heard once that men interpret the actions of other men much differently than women, because they know how men think and we don't. This is the reason men are so tough when boys start coming around to visit their daughters!
> 
> That being said, you work with this person so you have to be careful to handle it in a professional, yet matter-of-fact and friendly way. While I don't feel you have done anything wrong, you may need to speak up. It doesn't have to be weird or uncomfortable...
> 
> ...


I've been lunching with my friends for so long that I don't often talk about Beowulf that much. I certainly don't say anything negative about him. If I talk about the weekend I don't say "had a great weekend with Beowulf" I just say "had a great weekend" because my friends know it was with my husband. I'll have to become more aware of including Beowulf in any future discussions. Especially since its obvious my coworker is picking up on something. I don't want anyone at work to think I have interest in Nick. His food yes, him NO. Maybe Beowulf is not meeting my need for gourmet. Is that in Dr. Harley's book. It should be.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Next time he brings food, eat some then run to the bath room, come back all sickly looking and in front of everyone and say " OMG I just threw that up, think I may have got food posioning, what the hell did you just serve me" ...Bam... he will avoid you like the plauge.


Hahahaha, funny. That would be terrible though. I'm not that good of an actress. I'd start laughing. It is funny to think of just the same.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Yea, he shared a lot. I could see talking about the restaurant, cause that's interesting! but the other stuff....yea..if you didn't ask, he shouldn't offer. You're not a therapist. He just wanted you to know he was available AND that he was the victim. Awww poor guy :rofl:


I could not understand if he was cheated on how he could pursue a married woman. Maybe that's why I didn't see his signals. I unconsciously figured he was safe. No such thing. I should know better. Damnit.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> I could not understand if he was cheated on how he could pursue a married woman. Maybe that's why I didn't see his signals. I unconsciously figured he was safe. No such thing. I should know better. Damnit.


Well, WHO KNOWS what happened in his marriage. He doesn't seem to have the best character....hitting on married women and all.

Maybe he cheated on his wife. No one would offer that information, especially someone trying to get into a lady's pants.

I bet if you talked to his ex wife (not that you would) that her story is WAYYYY different.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> I know for a fact that he is blatantly hitting on one of the school secretaries. She's married with two kids. It's disgusting. I haven't seen him getting close with anyone in our group but until recently I didn't think he was trying to get close to me either. For my coworker to say that though it must be somewhat obvious to everyone but me that he is paying me more attention right? Grr, I hate this stuff. Why can't people come with a sign on their heads indicating what's going on inside.


Ok he's NOT a nice guy, he's a predatory POSOM. Do yourself a favor, disengage yourself from him and report him to the principal or anybody higher up on his inexcusable behavior towards the married secretary. The sooner you do it, the better it will be for everybody.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Morrigan,

I am glad you posted. Not only should you shave your legs and pits but I think a gift certificate for a gourmet cooking class for Beowulf should be presented soon.:smthumbup:

Just so he can be your all and give you chicken just the way you like it.

Keep being honest with yourself and your spouse. It is all we can really do......

HM64


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

Anyone have any suggestions on how I can send him the right signals without making my workday awkward? Should I just stop accepting his food and that's all? Should I move when he goes to sit down next to me? Should I just direct all my conversations to the others and pretty much ignore him? All of the above?


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> I could not understand if he was cheated on how he could pursue a married woman. Maybe that's why I didn't see his signals. I unconsciously figured he was safe. No such thing. I should know better. Damnit.


How do you know he wasnt the one who cheated?, No way in hell is a guy gonna tell a bunch of women that he cheated on his wife.Especially if his intested in them, he's playing the poor me card and it seems to be working...


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Morrigan,
> 
> I am glad you posted. Not only should you shave your legs and pits but I think a gift certificate for a gourmet cooking class for Beowulf should be presented soon.:smthumbup:
> 
> ...


Gift certificate for cooking class. I like it. Maybe we can go together and then practice "preparing dishes" at home.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

morituri said:


> Ok he's NOT a nice guy, he's a predatory POSOM. Do yourself a favor, disengage yourself from him and report him to the principal or anybody higher up on his inexcusable behavior towards the married secretary. The sooner you do it, the better it will be for everybody.


I don't think I could do this. Wouldn't I be setting myself up for issues? I mean I can't prove their doing anything other than flirting and its not like I'm the only one that sees it.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> Anyone have any suggestions on how I can send him the right signals without making my workday awkward? Should I just stop accepting his food and that's all? Should I move when he goes to sit down next to me? Should I just direct all my conversations to the others and pretty much ignore him? All of the above?


what about just telling him out right, hey were co-workers and I'm not feeling to comfortable about the signals I'm getting from you and the others seemed to have noticed it as well, so please just cool it, and if he offers some lame ass excuse, you can tell him, they way I see you hit on the married girl tells me all I need to know about you.....


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She doesn't have to turn him in for anything. That's the secretary's business. Holy crap. 

Morrigan, just distance yourself. Seriously. Don't get all into everyone's business. Maybe the secretary likes it. Maybe she doesn't. But she's a grown woman. That's her problem.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> Anyone have any suggestions on how I can send him the right signals without making my workday awkward? Should I just stop accepting his food and that's all? Should I move when he goes to sit down next to me? Should I just direct all my conversations to the others and pretty much ignore him? All of the above?


Yes to all of the above. If the other women in the group question you about it, explain to them that it is because he is a POS predator who hits on married women for sex and cares nothing if it ends up destroying their lives and the lives of their families.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

strugglinghusband said:


> what about just telling him out right, hey were co-workers and I'm not feeling to comfortable about the signals I'm getting from you and the others seemed to have noticed it as well, so please just cool it, and if he offers some lame ass excuse, you can tell him, they way I see you hit on the married girl tells me all I need to know about you.....


If you do this, document it.

I went through something similar YEARS ago (before i was married, but he was married) and i told him 3 times to back off until one day he grabbed me and tried to kiss me IN MY CLASSROOM!  I filed a report and the cops came, blah blah (sexual battery...he put his hands down the back of my pants).

I had NO documentation. They wondered if I was just angry or whatever because HIS story was that I wanted HIM!

Luckily, a student had seen me running in the hallway to get to the door to close it (he was behind me...last day of school) but he opened the door before I could get it locked and he was being all creepy smooth man (ew) and I backedup and fell over a chair. Well, this student saw that and told the cops, which matched my story and i don't know what happened after that. Cops took a report, and he was out of my school within 3 days....never saw him again.

Just document everything.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Just distance yourself but ask him for the chicken recipe first, tell him this "My husband will love this dish, can you please give me your recipe so I can make it for my hubby?".

Good Luck Morrigan. I am a sucker for good chicken too!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> She doesn't have to turn him in for anything. That's the secretary's business. Holy crap.
> 
> Morrigan, just distance yourself. Seriously. Don't get all into everyone's business. Maybe the secretary likes it. Maybe she doesn't. But she's a grown woman. That's her problem.


I disagree. If there is fallout to the school because the POS actions and the school administrators get wind that others knew what he was doing but failed to come forth, they might decide to take action against those who enabled his actions via a code of silence. School politics could cause the administrators to use Morrigan and her colleagues as scapegoats. When it comes to keeping their job by throwing others under the bus, do your seriously believe they wouldn't hesitate to do so?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

morituri said:


> I disagree. If there is fallout to the school because the POS actions and the school administrators get wind that others knew what he was doing but failed to come forth, they might decide to take action against those who enabled his actions via a code of silence. School politics could cause the administrators to use Morrigan and her colleagues as scapegoats. When it comes to keeping their job by throwing others under the bus, do your seriously believe they wouldn't hesitate to do so?


Untrue.

I work in a school. This is untrue. What I perceive as flirting may not be what others think is 'inappropriate'. No one can PROVE she saw them flirting. It's just too much drama.

And if she's in a district, she can't get fired for this. Please. She did nothing wrong with this. She could talk to the secretary and see if that woman feels weird about it and maybe encourage her to say something but if Morrigan said something, she'd look like a fool, they'd ask for proof of any wrong doing, and it would be ridiculous.

And what actions? Teachers can date each other, it's not against the rules. At least not in our contract. We have had people meet at school and get married and continue teaching. 

It's not her business.

The only thing teachers MUST report is child abuse in any form. THAT could cost you your job if you knew and didn't report. But this? nope.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Wow this thread is taking all kinds of twists and turns, the final out come on how it should be dealt with is up to beowulf and morrigan to work out together....


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

morituri said:


> Yes to all of the above. If the other women in the group question you about it, explain to them that it is because he is a POS predator who hits on married women for sex and cares nothing if it ends up destroying their lives and the lives of their families.


Yeah, if anyone asks I'll just say that I don't respect him for his overt display with the secretary.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Untrue.
> 
> I work in a school. This is untrue. What I perceive as flirting may not be what others think is 'inappropriate'. No one can PROVE she saw them flirting. It's just too much drama.
> 
> ...


The woman being hit on is married, and yes the school can and will sometimes fire someone for this type of behavior, it happened my town. The school had thier ducks in a row, union came in, challeneged the school and lost.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

strugglinghusband said:


> The woman being hit on is married, and yes the school can and will sometimes fire someone for this type of behavior, it happened my town. The school had thier ducks in a row, union came in, challeneged the school and lost.


But it's not Morrigan's problem, which is my point.

She is no one's keeper.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Untrue.
> 
> I work in a school. This is untrue. What I perceive as flirting may not be what others think is 'inappropriate'. No one can PROVE she saw them flirting. It's just too much drama.
> 
> ...


This wouldn't be the first time that married people "hooked up" in the school. In fact the head of a department and a janitor were both married, started an affair together and eventually divorced their spouses and married. Nothing happened to either of them. They still work there. Although they divorced two years later. Serves them right.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

that_girl said:


> But it's not Morrigan's problem, which is my point.
> 
> She is no one's keeper.


I agree with you on that, all I was trying to get across was that the other girl flirting with the guy could land them both in hot water, she is not single.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> The woman being hit on is married, and yes the school can and will sometimes fire someone for this type of behavior, it happened my town. The school had thier ducks in a row, union came in, challeneged the school and lost.


Obviously I haven't been the most perceptive person lately but she sure doesn't look like she's upset about the attention he's paying her. In fact, it looks pretty mutual. If I say anything they will both be against me.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> This wouldn't be the first time that married people "hooked up" in the school. In fact the head of a department and a janitor were both married, started an affair together and eventually divorced their spouses and married. Nothing happened to either of them. They still work there. Although they divorced two years later. Serves them right.


Wow way to teach our kids!!! sets a great example NOT!!!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But whatever your policies are at your school, the secretary is not your problem, which is my point. She's a grown woman. You are not responsible for that. It's ridiculous to say people would be fired for knowing something about adults at a school flirting  Please.

Your problem is this fisher guy who is seeing if you're going to respond.

I wouldn't say anything. You don't owe anyone an explanation. Just be busy for a while and people won't even notice the change. 

IF someone asks, just say you're busy and getting stuff ready for lessons. IF they push for another reason, just say you don't feel comfortable around him. He makes you uneasy. leave the secretary out of it all together.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

strugglinghusband said:


> I agree with you on that, all I was trying to get across was that the other girl flirting with the guy could land them both in hot water, she is not single.


Right. but we don't care about that. this is about Morrigan.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> Obviously I haven't been the most perceptive person lately but she sure doesn't look like she's upset about the attention he's paying her. In fact, it looks pretty mutual. If I say anything they will both be against me.


Then dont...its your call.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Just distance yourself but ask him for the chicken recipe first, tell him this "My husband will love this dish, can you please give me your recipe so I can make it for my hubby?".
> 
> Good Luck Morrigan. I am a sucker for good chicken too!


He made this chicken fajita that was just to die for. I need to stop now. My mouth is starting to water and I don't want Beowulf to get the wrong impression.

I'll just distance myself and hopefully he'll get the hint. Is it bad that I hope he gives the secretary more attention and leaves me alone? Maybe he was just using me to get her to bite. Oh, I shouldn't have said bite. Now I'm hungry again.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

strugglinghusband said:


> Wow way to teach our kids!!! sets a great example NOT!!!


People can date and have a life OUTSIDE of the school.

I dated a fellow teacher and no one knew. Not even teachers. We were discreet and no one knew. Kids will speak up when they suspect something. Trust. me.

Geez. You think the kids knew? We don't talk to our kids about our personal lives. 

Besides, that's not the point.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Wow way to teach our kids!!! sets a great example NOT!!!


Oh if you only knew what really went on in schools! Peyton Place looks like a bible study sometimes in comparison.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> Oh if you only knew what really went on in schools! Peyton Place looks like a bible study sometimes in comparison.


It's funny because I know NOTHING of what goes on in my school.. I go to work, teach, and go home. I don't want to know either. I'm not into that stuff at work.

I did date a teacher for 3 months before he took another position at another school. 

But school drama can get bad. I'd seen things between teachers (yelling fights, etc) that I just shake my head at. ridiculous. Do your job, kick ass teaching, love your kids, and go home. Geebus. 

I love teaching. But....my job isn't the place for personal shet. Dating a teacher was weird, and i was happy he transferred. he was a math coach (not in a classroom) and got an opportunity to be an VP.  He was a turd though. Such a whiny man....

But that's not the point! :rofl:

The point is, you got some good advice here, I'm sure you're smart enough to know what to do


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

that_girl said:


> People can date and have a life OUTSIDE of the school.
> 
> I dated a fellow teacher and no one knew. Not even teachers. We were discreet and no one knew. Kids will speak up when they suspect something. Trust. me.
> 
> ...


Ok, you and I seem to be getting of track, threading jacking, sorry..
.What I took from her comment was that it was happening at the school, in front of the kids, that is what happened in my town, and I am sorry if it came across differently...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> He made this chicken fajita that was just to die for. I need to stop now. My mouth is starting to water and I don't want Beowulf to get the wrong impression.


Oh no, now chicken fajitas will become a trigger. 



> I'll just distance myself and hopefully he'll get the hint. Is it bad that I hope he gives the secretary more attention and leaves me alone? Maybe he was just using me to get her to bite. Oh, I shouldn't have said bite. Now I'm hungry again


.

The POS won't cause you to cheat on Beowulf but he will definitely cause you to cheat on your diet.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think Morrigan is doing just fine. Just be a little more careful with this guy around. Right now, I think the boundaries are fine. She should ask him to back off once it escalates more than this or he wants more one on one time or some advice regarding his relationships


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

morituri said:


> Oh no, now chicken fajitas will become a trigger.
> 
> .
> 
> The POS won't cause you to cheat on Beowulf but he will definitely cause you to cheat on your diet.


Thanks I needed a good laugh. lol Maybe I'll make chicken fajitas for diner.


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Morrigan, 

I would not like my wife accepting food from the chef one minute. He is fattening you up like a turkey he intends to harvest. I get a positive sexual response every time I cook a meal for my wife - I'm no professional chef, but like to be creative in the kitchen and the old saying about "the way to a man's heart" works for women too!

Stop with accolades - I would interpret your carrying on as a silly test to make me jealous or worse. This is no different than Beowolf coming home with positive accolades about how gorgeous he finds the new assistant at work. I mean, "the way she wears a dress - to die for!" That would fly about as well as a piano out a window of a 60 story building.

Simple - never accept food again. This is about you inappropriately responding to the Chef's attention and caring and is flirting with disaster.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> Thanks I needed a good laugh. lol Maybe I'll make chicken fajitas for diner.


Ok, I've stayed out of this thread so far but no I can't ignore this any more.

DO NOT make chicken fajitas for dinner. You know how Mexican food affects me. Besides today is the day I do my testosterone shot. You wouldn't want to ruin anything would you?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I think you have to make it very clear that you're happily married. I'm sure he's not going to try anything given the pain he experienced with his wife cheating, at least I hope he doesn't. 

I wouldn't be too worried about the food offerings and helpful gestures, he's trying to be nice. If you begin to sense that he's doing those things for a reason then you should definitely tell him to back off.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

FormerNiceGuy said:


> Morrigan,
> 
> I would not like my wife accepting food from the chef one minute. He is fattening you up like a turkey he intends to harvest. I get a positive sexual response every time I cook a meal for my wife - I'm no professional chef, but like to be creative in the kitchen and the old saying about "the way to a man's heart" works for women too!
> 
> ...


I'm sorry my comments were taken this way. Its just Beowulf and I are very happy together and we would never do anything to hurt the others feelings. And I know he sees everything I say and do on the computer. I didn't think what I said could be hurtful. I apologize.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Ok, I've stayed out of this thread so far but no I can't ignore this any more.
> 
> DO NOT make chicken fajitas for dinner. You know how Mexican food affects me. Besides today is the day I do my testosterone shot. You wouldn't want to ruin anything would you?


No I definitely do not want to spoil my evening. Now I really do have to shave. Thanks for all the feedback and comments. I know what to do now. If I have any problems with this guy I'll come back for more advice.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

When you come back, bring us some home made fajitas for everybody (Beowulf can help carry them).


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

With all due respect... and Im not aiming this at OP, or anyone in general

I have so much trouble believing that woman are so naive. Before I say anything else, if you hear yourself think in your head... "not all guys are like that".... let me promise you... Its a lie. We are.

We go through a great deal of effort to hide, or supress a fact that I am going to tell you... 

Most men won't tell you this and some may humor themselves and try to deny this fact...

But... our not so secret, secret... *We are predators*. There are different types, personailties and approaches... But this is hardwired so deeply in us that we can not help it. It's evolution. We must procreate.

If you are a reasonably attractive women WE DO picture you naked within 30 seconds of meeting you... Everything we say, and everything we do has an underlying motive. Often subtle, sometimes we do it almost uncontiously. Whether we admit it, or even identify it.. We want to conquer you, we want options, we are hardwired like this... This is the nature of who we are. 

Deep down, I know that woman are aware of this. I think it's part of the whole "dance" that they play coy & unsuspecting... All the while having certain subtle human needs met by the would be suitor... The attenton, the compliments, the body language, all the little non verbal exchanges... To admit they are fully aware of our nature, might mean they have to stop getting this attention... and we all love that attention. We are all human, the music plays all around us... and we dance.

lol.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

So I should never talk to another man again? I mean, I was always told that men don't hang out with women to start book clubs 

lol.

People just need strong personal boundaries. Which I have.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Morrigan said:


> Anyone have any suggestions on how I can send him the right signals without making my workday awkward? Should I just stop accepting his food and that's all? Should I move when he goes to sit down next to me? Should I just direct all my conversations to the others and pretty much ignore him? All of the above?


Ok, how about inviting your husband to lunch, kissing him passionately, then invite him to eat lunch with you. Then kiss him passionately again when he leaves. Deja Vu?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Morrigan said:


> No I definitely do not want to spoil my evening. Now I really do have to shave. Thanks for all the feedback and comments. I know what to do now. If I have any problems with this guy I'll come back for more advice.


TMI. Oh, and don't forget the Beano.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

that_girl said:


> So I should never talk to another man again? I mean, I was always told that men don't hang out with women to start book clubs
> 
> lol.
> 
> People just need strong personal boundaries. Which I have.


As you point out, you have boundries. 

The world you live in, and your perspective is relative to you. It has very few similarities to the reality that most of us have been forced to exist in. 

You are surrounded by people who's lives have been shattered by monumental failures with boundries. Saying they _just_ need to have these boundries, is saying to "let them eat cake"... 

I promise you, what I said about men is a fact. It's human nature.

We are wolves.

PS... OP, simply gush about your husband. I promise you, you will not have to worry about it becoming uncomfortable. It wont take long, he will go away all by himself.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Right, ok so men are wolves.

But women are not so easily woo'ed and naive to always fall for it. Maybe some are, just like not ALL men are wolves. Some are passive and shy.

I agree with talking up her husband if it comes to that. But it doesn't matter if other people have boundaries or not. If you have strong boundaries for yourself, you will protect those boundaries and others will know it. If they push on your boundaries, then you can take action.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

So, once again I am the odd-man-out on this issue. Morrigan, you are the one who cheated, right? Why are you so flippant about this? An analogy: If you had gotten burned by touching a hot stove, you would ALWAYS be aware of stoves and the heat they pack. You say you were un-aware that this was an inappropriate contact? Bullsh*t! Are you over the age of 12? You knew that this was inappropriate and thought it was a harmless thing , you could control. Have you learned nothing? You are a former cheater, that means you accept NOTHING from another man, whether it's food, help, advice, or his life story. You keep ANY man at "Acquaintance", level only. Not friends. If you have to leave the group, you do it. I respect Beowulf, but if I were him, I would have a "Come to Jesus", discussion with you, because you are taking this too casually, and clearly still have boundary issues. That you told Beowulf is good, that you allowed it to progress this far is reprehensible. And you know it. You spoke about the Harley's. Now I don't always agree with them, I DO believe that you should NEVER have accepted ANYTHING from this man , without discussing it BEFOREHAND with Beowulf.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I simply don't believe that you are as gullible and immature as you are making yourself out to be. This is WRONG from start to finish.


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## Shwagulous (Mar 12, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Right, ok so men are wolves.
> 
> But women are not so easily woo'ed and naive to always fall for it. Maybe some are, just like not ALL men are wolves. Some are passive and shy.
> 
> I agree with talking up her husband if it comes to that. But it doesn't matter if other people have boundaries or not. If you have strong boundaries for yourself, you will protect those boundaries and others will know it. If they push on your boundaries, then you can take action.


I'm with Pit on this one. I was the passive / shy guy in high school. Don't let that fool you, I was also very much a wolf. I just didn't have the social skills then to pull it off aggressively. Or rather, I would just use tactics that I knew I could do. I still dated plenty, but didn't come off as the overly aggressive guy trying to get in their pants..... I still got in their pants, and I was still self aware enough to know when my "niceness" was being well received. It is possible that OP is truly blind to his advances however subtle they are in the beginning, or doesn't consider them advances because they haven't crossed a particular threshold of hers, but to me, he is pea****ing one if his best assets. Cooking. And the other female employee(s) seem to think he is directing his display of feathers in a particular direction. 

I use my humor in this way. I love to make people laugh. I am not actively out looking for female attention, but when I get the "you're so funny" followed by some playful slaps on my arms, the inner wolf smiles and wants to hunt (a little dopamine fix here and there can't be all _that_ bad, can it?) that's when the boundaries have to kick in.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

My take on this is that Morrigan has no interest in this guy, so she did not perceive that he is a player. She now knows not to have any personal conversations with him. I do not ascribe any ulterior motives to Morrigan's actions.


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Badblood said:


> I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I simply don't believe that you are as gullible and immature as you are making yourself out to be. This is WRONG from start to finish.


Right on BadBlood! 

Ever heard of crack? Releases dopamine, the chemical of "love". Anyone who thinks they can dabble and not get caught is completely delusional. No good ever comes out of messing with crack and, if you want to stay happily married, you don't open that door one centimeter - ever.


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## Shwagulous (Mar 12, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> My take on this is that Morrigan has no interest in this guy, so she did not perceive that he is a player. She now knows not to have any personal conversations with him. I do not ascribe any ulterior motives to Morrigan's actions.


:iagree:

Doesn't mean that his intentions aren't there. I don't even think he was/is being very over the top in what he does. Opening or holding a door for someone is just common courtesy, so to me no harm no foul. Offering to carry your heavy load.... depends on if he is like that generally with everyone, or if it seems to be OP specifically. She may not be able to answer that since she doesn't see his action 24/7. Bringing in cooking all the time... eehhh, it might just be something that he likes to do. Bringing it in a being a little extra sure that OP gets some of his cooking and them give him a little praise for it. Aaaahhhh mini dopamine fix. It all starts off sooooooooooo innocently. That is the time to make sure you raise the drawbridge leading to your personal castle. That castle belongs only to your spouse. If he comes a white knighting you, make sure he knows that nobody gets past moat Beowulf!!!


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## naperken (Feb 21, 2012)

Ingalls said:


> I'm reading not Just friends (actually I think Beowulf post suggested it?) but IMO too it sounds like he is more testing you-like putting out feelers or to see if you respond? Maybe since you now are aware it could be easier to sway the other direction. If others "see it" then I bet its happening.
> I had a co-worker who was was 20 years older than me and I saw him as a father figure. When he made a pass to kiss me I was appalled and never talked again. NOW after reading this book I did give off all the signs and didn't realize it? I sort of feel bad I was so mean and horrible to him after that!


Wife and I are doing the same and the book describes almost exactly how insidiously her affair came to pass. I think many women are naively unaware how easy it is send men 'buying' signals, how equally easy it is for flattery from the attention to breakdown marital boundaries, and then develop inappropriate attachments which, unchecked, will surely develop into full-blown affairs. Dr Glass made it pretty clear that even healthy and satisfying marriages are not immune from these sequence of events. I absolutely agree with her that having well defined personal and professional boundaries is one of the keys to affair-proofing your marriage.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

Badblood said:


> I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I simply don't believe that you are as gullible and immature as you are making yourself out to be. This is WRONG from start to finish.


Don't apologize please. I posted here because I knew I would get honest truth. I wanted a reality check. I guess I was in denial. I'm not 12 and I should know better. Especially since this is not my first rodeo. I was naive to think that just because I stayed with the group and never was alone that it was ok. I'm an idiot. Beowulf and I have been so good for so long I guess I let my guard down. You're right I should know better. Thank you for the slap in the head. I need it.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

I just got the "I told you so" treatment from Beowulf. Damnit I feel so stupid. Thank God our communication is so good. I tell him everything so he saw this coming before I did. I admit I'm kinda scared right now. Why didn't I see this coming? For so long I was so careful and now I feel like I'm back to square one again.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Badblood said:


> So, once again I am the odd-man-out on this issue. Morrigan, you are the one who cheated, right? Why are you so flippant about this? An analogy: If you had gotten burned by touching a hot stove, you would ALWAYS be aware of stoves and the heat they pack. You say you were un-aware that this was an inappropriate contact? Bullsh*t! Are you over the age of 12? You knew that this was inappropriate and thought it was a harmless thing , you could control. Have you learned nothing? You are a former cheater, that means you accept NOTHING from another man, whether it's food, help, advice, or his life story. You keep ANY man at "Acquaintance", level only. Not friends. If you have to leave the group, you do it. I respect Beowulf, but if I were him, I would have a "Come to Jesus", discussion with you, because you are taking this too casually, and clearly still have boundary issues. That you told Beowulf is good, that you allowed it to progress this far is reprehensible. And you know it. You spoke about the Harley's. Now I don't always agree with them, I DO believe that you should NEVER have accepted ANYTHING from this man , without discussing it BEFOREHAND with Beowulf.


Thanks BB. I've been watching this develop for a while now. I've been trying to tell her what was happening but she didn't see it until her coworker made that comment. I think she was afraid to admit it was happening. She knows now. Guys fish all the time. If you don't actively discourage it you are passively encouraging it. There is no middle ground. She's a very playful and engaging person so she often attracts attention from people. Most of the time it is just friendly banter but I knew this was different. She's a little down on herself right now but she'll do the right thing.


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## Shwagulous (Mar 12, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Thanks BB. I've been watching this develop for a while now. I've been trying to tell her what was happening but she didn't see it until her coworker made that comment. I think she was afraid to admit it was happening. She knows now. Guys fish all the time. If you don't actively discourage it you are passively encouraging it. There is no middle ground. She's a very playful and engaging person so she often attracts attention from people. Most of the time it is just friendly banter but I knew this was different. She's a little down on herself right now but she'll do the right thing.


I just think she's a rock star for talking this out with you well ahead of any potential trouble. She deserves two gold stars (do they still give those out at school?  ) as well do you Beowulf for having good communication like this. Makes me hope my wife and I are also headed in this direction.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Attention = Crack for women


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> But whatever your policies are at your school, the secretary is not your problem, which is my point. She's a grown woman. You are not responsible for that. It's ridiculous to say people would be fired for knowing something about adults at a school flirting  Please.
> 
> Your problem is this fisher guy who is seeing if you're going to respond.
> 
> ...


I totally disagree that people should turn a blind eye to inappropriate behavior. Thats why there is so much inapprpriate behavior. Both these people should be shunned for their behavior. For one thing their behavior in a school should be above reproach.

If some lecher was coming on to my wife or daughter I damned well would want to know about it.

From the way he is acting, I would be surprised if it were his wife that was cheating. Probably him with his waitresses or customers.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Morrigan, you simply don't understand men. Just try to look at your interpersonal relationship through beowolfs eyes. When in doubt ask him. Just like you did.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I want to thank everyone for their advice and opinions. My wife tends to see the good in people and sometimes that clouds her judgement. While I would love for her view of the world to be true we all know it isn't that way. The world can be a beautiful place but even a rose has its thorns. This guys is most definitely a thorn and I'm glad she sees him for what he really is before he gave her a pr!ck. Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> Don't apologize please. I posted here because I knew I would get honest truth. I wanted a reality check. I guess I was in denial. I'm not 12 and I should know better. Especially since this is not my first rodeo. I was naive to think that just because I stayed with the group and never was alone that it was ok. I'm an idiot. Beowulf and I have been so good for so long I guess I let my guard down. You're right I should know better. Thank you for the slap in the head. I need it.


Morrigan, I'm glad you took my post as it was intended. I don't know you at all, but I want to think good of you.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Thanks BB. I've been watching this develop for a while now. I've been trying to tell her what was happening but she didn't see it until her coworker made that comment. I think she was afraid to admit it was happening. She knows now. Guys fish all the time. If you don't actively discourage it you are passively encouraging it. There is no middle ground. She's a very playful and engaging person so she often attracts attention from people. Most of the time it is just friendly banter but I knew this was different. She's a little down on herself right now but she'll do the right thing.


Beowulf, this is one of those "grey areas", that cause so much trouble. It seems so innocent, at the time, and all of the safeguards are in place, but any little lack of vigilance can cause immense harm. I only hope that you and Morrigan deal with this issue with the grace and commonsense you have shown in the past. I'm sure you both will find the handle on it.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

morituri said:


> Attention = Crack for women


Just women? I had a twenty -something hottie from work say I was a "hot black stud", and it made my day.:smthumbup:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Just women? I had a twenty -something hottie from work say I was a "hot black stud", and it made my day.:smthumbup:


Must have been that c0cky swagger of yours that she fell prey to, you bastard.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Is this guy a substitute-----If he is then he should only be there once in a while---as to your lunch group---set enuff chairs at the table, for only those in your group, and if he comes to sit down, in a vacant chair---tell him the chair is for Blah, Blah---if he is trying to squeeze in an already full table---tell him its already to crowded----he will get the idea

You should not be letting him follow you to your classroom---if he does, tell him you have work to do, or lesson plans to work on, and then just plain IGNORE HIM---if he wants to open the door---tell him you don't want him opening the door for you----just be unfriendly----If he is a sub---they get treated basically as tho they were non-entities---It may not be right, but they are not regular teachers, and so, "Know your place"--"It is not as part of our group, you are a stranger, stay out of our life"---That is what most subs---get---this one should be treated the same

As to the Sec'y you can make an offhand comment---Such as "man that guy is pretty forward---My H. certainly would not be happy if he were hitting on me like that"---You are not telling her anything direct---but you are letting her know---offhandedly, that he is out-of-bounds, and she hopefully knows it, and now others are seeing it.

Also if he is causing sexual tension, at your school, the principle can do something about it---such as to blacklist him, so he can't take any substitute assignments at your school----they would do that with a sub, who was a bad teacher, or a sub, who can't control the kids---so yes he can be kept from coming to your school.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I can see both spouses have very valid points. He's not doing anything that that she wouldn't be embarassed of in public. For instance he's not sitting next to her and spoon feeding her bites of homemade food, but it's really starting to become routine and comfortable. It's one of those grey area arguments that could swing both ways, but the fact that they share problems in their relationships is dangerously close to the beginnings of an emotional affair. If this thing kept up it wouldn't be long before she's going to his house for piping hot baked goods and chilled wine.

My theory is that he's drawing closer and closer to her to get that admiration he lack's from losing his own wife. She probably remind him of her is some way and he's drawn to a relationship with her for closure. This simply cannot keep going on the way it has. Once in a while sharing food is ok among friends but when it just seems it's done for her. And any attempts to get to know her better outside of the caffeteria or even outside of school is simply off limits. Men will pursue endlessly if the woman is nice enough because we're all kind of stupid. Why else to men throw away hundred of hard earned dollars as no sex strip clubs? It's certainly not for the food or the "college education".


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## TheGoodFight (Oct 26, 2011)

Not to hijack the thread, but it seems that the advice given has been received well and what needs to be discussed has been.

My wife is/was a teacher as well and had her affair with another teacher. I know there are some other teachers that have posted in this thread as well.

So my question is, what is it about a school environment as a workplace that seems to help foster these types of inappropriate relationships? Or is it my imagination and I'm just picking up on it because that's what was happening at my wife's school?

It just seems like a lot of affairs start between coworkers, and certain types of jobs have higher rates of occurance than others. For example, those who travel with other coworkers for business, or work in a hospital, or .... work in a school.

Almostrecovered had a poll about it here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/41468-cwi-census-part-vi-occupation-ws.html

but that poll was only asking what the occupation of the WS was. I'd actually like to see that combined with "did your affair happen with a coworker?"


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

TheGoodFight said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but it seems that the advice given has been received well and what needs to be discussed has been.
> 
> My wife is/was a teacher as well and had her affair with another teacher. I know there are some other teachers that have posted in this thread as well.
> 
> ...


I know airline workers have a high rate of infidelity. As Morrigan posted her school at least is a breeding ground for this kind of thing. And I would have thought that like some private corporations schools would actively discourage and possibly even discipline employees that fraternize to this extent. But it has almost become part of the culture and I admit has concerned me at times. That is why Morrigan and I maintain a completely open and transparent marriage and emphasize communication and honesty heavily. My wife has told me many times of inappropriate relationships at her school. Because of our past issues she feels very uncomfortable even acknowledging that these activities are occurring around her. In this case I don't feel she had any interest in this Nick guy but was reluctant to see what was happening and consequently buried her head in the sand. I have told her many times that if I feel that her job is interfering in our marriage I will not hesitate to insist she leave. Now I'm thinking that maybe this is why she turns a blind eye to much of what is going on. Yesterday I talked to her about being vigilant and how its more dangerous to walk around with blinders on than to see the world for what it really is. Frankly I can't wait for her to retire even though I know that's a long way off.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Here's one list, not sure why its posted like this. Top five cheating professions for male female


"Before pointing fingers at the frisky bankers, another expert source of infidelity statistics, dating-for-marrieds site ****** *******, provides a broader view. Last year, the top five occupations of their 1.9 million members were cited as the following:



MEN

WOMEN



1. Doctors

1. Teachers



2. Police officers

2. Stay-at-home moms



3. Lawyers

3. Nurses



4. Real estate agents

4. Administrative assistants



5. Engineers

5. Real estate agents"
"


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## TheGoodFight (Oct 26, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> As Morrigan posted her school at least is a breeding ground for this kind of thing.


But why? I don't think it's just her school that is like that.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

ANYplace is a breeding ground for an affair is people don't have personal boundaries and/or want to have an affair.

geez. It happens wherever people work together and talk and hang out and have to deal with each other. 

I'm a teacher, but never had an affair. Yes, I dated a teacher, but we were both single-- and discreet.

Schools are not "breeding grounds" for affairs. 

Wherever men and women work together, there's a chance of an affair, especially if the outside factors are in favor of an affair.

There's drama at my school but never heard of an affair and I've been there 12 years. There's CRAZY backstabbing awfulness, but no seedy affairs.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

TheGoodFight said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but it seems that the advice given has been received well and what needs to be discussed has been.
> 
> My wife is/was a teacher as well and had her affair with another teacher. I know there are some other teachers that have posted in this thread as well.
> 
> ...


Why do teachers get involved? Because its 4,000 crumb crunchers against maybe 50 teachers? They find solace with each other. Think about it. They may have the same "trouble maker student". The male and female teacher, could attack the issue together. Just like who? Parents. That's right, it is the nature of a teacher to parent their students. When you get this close to the line, it gets crossed.


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## TheGoodFight (Oct 26, 2011)

that_girl said:


> ANYplace is a breeding ground for an affair is people don't have personal boundaries and/or want to have an affair.


I know this, but there is no question that it happens more often in certain professions. For example, you don't hear about a lot of construction workers getting together on the job, probably because it is a male dominated industry.



that_girl said:


> geez. It happens wherever people work together and talk and hang out and have to deal with each other.


Hang out? 



that_girl said:


> I'm a teacher, but never had an affair. Yes, I dated a teacher, but we were both single-- and discreet.


I'll bet more people knew about it than you think. 



that_girl said:


> Schools are not "breeding grounds" for affairs.


OK, the "breeding ground" language is probably a little over the top. But I still say there is something to the environment that seems to make it more common for some reason.



that_girl said:


> There's drama at my school but never heard of an affair and I've been there 12 years. There's CRAZY backstabbing awfulness, but no seedy affairs.


But you admit that you go to work, do your job, and don't get involved in personal things at work. If that's true, I don't think it's the majority that do that. And even though you stay out of it, you know about the drama.



Initfortheduration said:


> Why do teachers get involved? Because its 4,000 crumb crunchers against maybe 50 teachers? They find solace with each other. Think about it. They may have the same "trouble maker student". The male and female teacher, could attack the issue together. Just like who? Parents. That's right, it is the nature of a teacher to parent their students.


Maybe, I'm not sure that's it though. I think it is more along the lines of, there is a problem student, but they can only complain about said student to each other.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

So what if pepole knew about my dating a teacher? We can have private lives. Geez. It wasn't against the rules either and neither of us were married. Although afterwards, when I said we dated,people were shocked lol. 

And yea, teachers hang out. There's lunch, recess, cooperative group meetings, all sorts of things.

You think most people just go to work and go home? lollll 

I like to be alone during my breaks. My students run my ragged. I'm ready for 30 minutes alone for lunch 

Wherever men and women are together, there's a chance of an affair. Maybe we should just segregate the whole world.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> So what if pepole knew about my dating a teacher? We can have private lives. Geez. It wasn't against the rules either and neither of us were married. Although afterwards, when I said we dated,people were shocked lol.
> 
> And yea, teachers hang out. There's lunch, recess, cooperative group meetings, all sorts of things.
> 
> ...


Reread your post. You dated another teacher because it wasn't against the rules. That's just my point. Why isn't it against the rules? Would a rule against teachers dating result in less drama in a drama filled environment?

You also said teachers hang out. Exactly. There is a closeness amongst teachers that does not necessarily exist in other fields. As you said, meetings, mutual commiseration, craving for emotional support from others in the same situation cause teachers to lean on each other more than people in other professions. And lets face it, if you're surrounded by children all day you tend to crave interaction with adults. Other teachers are the nearest like-minded adults right? Couldn't that be why potentially improper fraternization occurs more frequently in that type of environment?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

"Maybe, I'm not sure that's it though. I think it is more along the lines of, there is a problem student, but they can only complain about said student to each other."

It ain't about the student, its about the connection. And complaining is not the only thing they can do. They can have sex with each other and betray their spouses? Just how do you think these teacher on teacher relationships develop?


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## TheGoodFight (Oct 26, 2011)

that_girl said:


> So what if pepole knew about my dating a teacher? We can have private lives. Geez. It wasn't against the rules either and neither of us were married. Although afterwards, when I said we dated,people were shocked lol.
> 
> And yea, teachers hang out. There's lunch, recess, cooperative group meetings, all sorts of things.
> 
> ...


No, I'm saying that teachers DON'T just go to work and go home. There is a lot of "after hours" time grading papers, planning lessons, preparing the classroom, etc.

This is when teachers visit with one another just to chat or vent about whichever student gave them trouble that day, whatever.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, I only know about my school. I teach in south central Los angeles. I'm out when the bell rings. I won't be there after hours. HELL NO. Not in the ghetto. I'd say most of the teachers do this at my school. The ones that stay are older women with no children or husbands.

And whatever....if you want an affair, you'll find an affair. And people know how it feels when a work relationship becomes personal and they don't stop it. THAT is not just teachers.

I don't know why it's not against the rules to date other teachers. I'm not a big ol' attention wh0re, so I was discreet and did my job and went home. We never even talked at school as he was in a completely different building.

Blame the "professions" all you want, but people cheat because they want to. because they are cheaters and don't have strong personal boundaries


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Reread your post. You dated another teacher because it wasn't against the rules. That's just my point. Why isn't it against the rules? Would a rule against teachers dating result in less drama in a drama filled environment?
> 
> You also said teachers hang out. Exactly. There is a closeness amongst teachers that does not necessarily exist in other fields. As you said, meetings, mutual commiseration, craving for emotional support from others in the same situation cause teachers to lean on each other more than people in other professions. And lets face it, if you're surrounded by children all day you tend to crave interaction with adults. Other teachers are the nearest like-minded adults right? Couldn't that be why potentially improper fraternization occurs more frequently in that type of environment?


i don't know why you think there is drama when dating. I dated someone, no drama. A friend met her husband at school and until their engagement announcement, NO ONE knew they were dating.

It is possible to me mature and be a teacher 

I'm out of this conversation. It's irritating. Teachers can just be the scapegoat for everything!  failing students, affairs! Woot! Why the eff not.

I'm out.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> i don't know why you think there is drama when dating. I dated someone, no drama. A friend met her husband at school and until their engagement announcement, NO ONE knew they were dating.
> 
> It is possible to me mature and be a teacher
> 
> ...


I'm sorry if I offended you. That was certainly not my intention. I also do not mean to suggest teachers should be scapegoated at all. Hell my wife is a teacher. But there is a lot of drama in schools. I've met many of my wife's coworkers and I know most of them are extremely good teachers and people. But there are some that I would characterize as good teachers but immature people. They are usually the ones that either start the drama or tend to perpetuate and over-blow issues until everyone is involved in some way, shape or form.

My wife is much like you in that she doesn't get involved in the drama (excepting recent events lol). She doesn't spend time after school unless necessary and she sticks to the job as much as possible. You can be mature and a teacher. Those who are tend to be the best teachers IMO. But many of her colleagues do not treat the job in that way. Many seems to see teaching as also being a club. And that is where I think the trouble can begin. I also think at least in my wife's school that there is an "us vs. them" mentality that may indeed be brought out by the unfair criticism teachers are subjected to. Frankly I think teachers get a bum rap. They are forced to follow a curriculum that really doesn't allow them to teach to the best of their abilities. Teachers are not the reason for failing grades. The school systems and state requirements are so rigid and inflexible that its almost impossible for teachers to do their jobs properly. Politicians should not be dictating what is the best way to educate our young. The red tape that teachers are bound with should be cut up and used in art class instead of tying teachers hands.

tg,

Please accept my apologies for anything I said that upset you. I appreciate the good advice you gave my wife Morrigan and I sincerely value your intelligence and insight.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> ANYplace is a breeding ground for an affair if people don't have personal boundaries and/or want to have an affair..


This is very true. Nevertheless, a place of employment is many times used as ground zero for an affair. In the companies that I have worked for, it usually takes an anonymous complaint that this behavior is going on for management to send memos and/or conduct meetings where the law has been laid down that this is unacceptable behavior and will result in disciplinary action including termination. An affair can definitely affect a company's bottom line, especially if a tragedy occurs because of it.

When fellow employees become aware of their colleagues unprofessional conduct and choose to adopt a 'code of silence', they are aiding and abetting this potentially dangerous behavior in people who have eschewed behaving like responsible adults in front of other adults.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

that_girl said:


> i don't know why you think there is drama when dating. I dated someone, no drama. A friend met her husband at school and until their engagement announcement, NO ONE knew they were dating.
> 
> It is possible to me mature and be a teacher
> 
> ...


That is some pretty thin skin you got there. No one is accusing you, or any teacher for that matter. The discussion was about how connections were made. Not a teacher bashing exercise. Tell you what, I am a salesman. Let me have it. You know the "traveling salesman" stories.


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## TheGoodFight (Oct 26, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> But many of her colleagues do not treat the job in that way. Many seems to see teaching as also being a club. And that is where I think the trouble can begin. I also think at least in my wife's school that there is an "us vs. them" mentality that may indeed be brought out by the unfair criticism teachers are subjected to.


This is what I was trying to say and is my theory on why it might happen more often in a school setting among teachers. I also think you get the same type of thing among police officers, for example.

I also wasn't trying to offend, but I think that_girl's reaction kind of plays into my theory.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Teachers are entitled to the same rights as every other person on this planet---who the he*l is anybody to say terachers can't meet and date---maybe college students shouldn't meet and date, cuz they are only at school to study---maybe sales people, office workers, maintenance people, horse trainers, politicians, shouldn't meet and date---cuz they are only there to do their jobs---give me a break

Workplace environments also are social---people who work together, want to socialize and do thingsa together, in many instances, cuz they need/want an outlet

Many of these activities are basically for the singles of the group, or workplace----marrieds get included based on their situation---and the spouse of a married who knows what is going on should keep an eye on things, and talk to their partner------spouses even if they are socializing and try to hide what they are doing---if the other spouse is paying attention---they know something is off---in change of habits, change of dress, change of attitude, change of time schedule, extra usage of electronics----you get enuff information---your gut, talks to you, you know if there are downturns in your mge----you for the most part have an inkling----we just don't act on it---cuz we think it can't happen to us---cuz we trust to much----

Guess what with the stats out today, about infidelity----you gotta be hyper-vigilant, and you cannot assume, that it can't happen to you.

But teachers are no different than everyone else----In a school of say 60 teachers, and staff, there no more infidlities, than in any other workplace with a staff of 60.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

jnj express said:


> Teachers are entitled to the same rights as every other person on this planet---who the he*l is anybody to say terachers can't meet and date---maybe college students shouldn't meet and date, cuz they are only at school to study---maybe sales people, office workers, maintenance people, horse trainers, politicians, shouldn't meet and date---cuz they are only there to do their jobs---give me a break
> 
> Workplace environments also are social---people who work together, want to socialize and do thingsa together, in many instances, cuz they need/want an outlet
> 
> ...


If you are saying that one profession is as lilkely to cheat as another thats just wrong. There are many studies that show which proffessions are most likely to cheat. In all I have seen teachers, nurses and doctors are way up there in the top.

Google infidelity statistics.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

A study is only as good as those who disseminate the info---and if you are gonna throw out stats about professions and quote studies----the person disseminating the info---had better cover every single industry that exists before you go and state one industry is worse than another---which may have not even been in the study----stats can be made to appear anyway you want them to.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Let's stop hijacking this thread and go back to Morrigan's situation shall we?

To sum things up, this chef from hell is no good because he is pursuing married women with the intention of becoming sexually involved with them. He does this because he considers Morrigan, and the secretary safe sexual partners for the simple reason that they are married and thus less likely to want to end their marriages.

Still, an anonymous complaint could serve IF the school administrators choose to bring it up in a staff and faculty meeting. It would certainly make the 'chef' know that his actions are being monitored by others and make him less comfortable in engaging in them.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Let's not tar and feather the chef yet! We don't know his intentions. I think some are jumping to conclusions. He may up to no good, but wewant don't know him. I think alerting administration is overboard. He hasn't said or done anything inappropriate. I don't think sitting with some teachers at lunch, offering food etc is crossing any boundaries. Talking to you about his marriage troubles could be considered a bit inappropriate. Maybe let him know you are uncomfortable discussing personal matters.


Cheating can happen anywhere. And sorry to be harsh, but I don't think the setting is to blame. Cheaters decide to cheat. I think cheating results from either 1) person unhappy in marriage 2) person bored in marriage 3) person is just that type of person who wants to cheat or is easily tempted.

I was a teacher and now work in the corporate world. I have seen some cheating. Honestly I have not been hit on by a married man at either place (when I was single or married). So maybe I'm naive, but I don't think every man is looking to cheat or has his eye out. But hey, maybe I'm unattractive or something and just don't realize it. When I hear of cheating at work it usually involves the same people who are either serial cheaters or ones I've heard who are unhappily married. 

I feel most married people can talk to people of the opposite sex without being tempted to cheat, unless they are unhappy at home or lonely and looking for attention. I work with men, travel on business with men and play tennis with men (going to partner with a married man in a match today) and I don't think about cheating and they don't do anything inappropriate. So I think it's more of the person who is a cheater than the situation IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

And when I said the chef hasn't done anything inappropriate, I meant to Morrigan. Hitting on the school.secretary is sleazy, but that doesn't involve Morrigan. And no one is the moral police. If two people are cheating, it's no one's business but them and their spouses. It's a free country. I don't agree with cheating, but it's not my right to tell others how to live unless they ask my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I do think teachers have an additional responsibility as role models for kids. More than the construction worker, dentist ( Horrible Bosses reference ) or amy number of other professions. It depnds on the circumstance.

Some extreme examples that have occurred in the local area have been:

1) A high school coach running off with a student. He was seeing her well before she was 18. He had a two year old daughter and was married. The coach was fired.

2) Also a married head coach and a married teacher getting caught in a class room during some sort of sex act. The students went to the office and reported it. Both teachers were walked out that day.

These kids pickup on more than they get credit for. They probably read too much into innocent situations as well. But teachers are authority figures. I agree in these times authority figures are over rated and tend to have less morality than the average person.

The chef may or may not be a sleaze. If he is openly hitting on the secratary everyone knows. Reporting it offically to authority does make them deal with it but for sure they are already ignoring it. So I am not so sure this warrants any activity by the OP to do anything with that other than to see that he is someone to distance herself from. Given the opportunity he would nail her. The more time he invests in the her the more comitted he is for this purpose. It is a gray area but past a certain point man like this do not invest their time in married women.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I think that this thread needs to be closed, it is nothing but one huge T/J, now.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

Just thought I would give everyone an update.

All last week I kept talking about Beowulf during lunchtime. I refused to accept food from Nick. The first couple of days he seemed a little taken aback. After that he seems to be acting uncomfortably, like a fish out of water. He wasn't interacting the same way. Then this week guess what? He stopped coming to our table at lunch. You all were 100% right. That snake was only doing it to see if he could worm his way into my...well...into ME! Thanks so much for helping me to realize what was happening. I'm tightening up my boundaries a lot and I started reading Not Just Friends again. Seems I need a refresher course.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm waiting for Beowulf to hit the "like" button at the bottom right corner of Morrigan's last post. LOL


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

the guy said:


> I'm waiting for Beowulf to hit the "like" button at the bottom right corner of Morrigan's last post. LOL


Done! lol

BTW, I actually refrained from saying I told you so.

I'm proud of myself.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Beowulf,

Glad that this forum could help in stopping a potential issue....
Glad also that you could see a red flag before it really came.
Glad that Morrigan, came here on your advice.
Glad that she understood what was said here.
Glad that she is making her boundaries firmer.

Happy.
Wish you good lucks. If only the spouses understand.....


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

*Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryandUsed 
Is your colleague not right when they say "I bet if it was Nick offering you food you'd take it huh?"? 

No, my colleague is right but not because of who is offering the food. Its because he was a chef and the food is very good. I don't eat a lot but when something is good I will eat it. When the others in our group offer me something its usually chips, or cookies or something prepackaged. If its homemade and good I might take some. I don't think its because of Nick that I take food when he offers but its because what he makes is tasty and not the usual lunch fare. *

Morrigan, could you now see how you viewed the same thing very differently some time ago?


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> *Quote:
> Originally Posted by AngryandUsed
> Is your colleague not right when they say "I bet if it was Nick offering you food you'd take it huh?"?
> 
> ...


Beowulf has always said that both my best and worst quality is that I always see the good in people. I suppose that will never change. But what I have to do is open my eyes and see people for what they are and what they do. I can still see the good but I have to recognize that people are not always good and sometimes they do bad things. These past couple of weeks I think I've finally figured out why I don't see these things. Funny how it can take so long to see the truth. I think the reason I don't see the bad in people or that potential to do bad in people is because I myself did something so bad a long time ago and I've been trying to forget it. If I blind myself to the evil that others do I can pretend that I never did evil myself. And I did do evil to Beowulf. In trying not to dwell on it I instead tried to erase it from my memory. That's not healthy and not realistic and it doesn't help me to set up and maintain boundaries. I guess this old b!tch is going to force herself to learn a new trick.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Morrigan, here's the scoop.
The chef is no longer married so any fine looking "petite" youg lady will be found attractive by him.
Now since I too was cheated on and am divorced for two years, I do like to entertain socially. However, I will draw the line at women who are dating other guys and/or especially married women.
This is in no way indicative of how your fellow worker feels, but I would tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.
What is important is how both you and your husband view it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> Beowulf has always said that both my best and worst quality is that I always see the good in people. I suppose that will never change. But what I have to do is open my eyes and see people for what they are and what they do. I can still see the good but I have to recognize that people are not always good and sometimes they do bad things. These past couple of weeks I think I've finally figured out why I don't see these things. Funny how it can take so long to see the truth. I think the reason I don't see the bad in people or that potential to do bad in people is because I myself did something so bad a long time ago and I've been trying to forget it. If I blind myself to the evil that others do I can pretend that I never did evil myself. And I did do evil to Beowulf. In trying not to dwell on it I instead tried to erase it from my memory. That's not healthy and not realistic and it doesn't help me to set up and maintain boundaries. I guess this old b!tch is going to force herself to learn a new trick.


Just curious, does anyone at the school know your past history?


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

hookares said:


> Morrigan, here's the scoop.
> The chef is no longer married so any fine looking "petite" youg lady will be found attractive by him.
> Now since I too was cheated on and am divorced for two years, I do like to entertain socially. However, I will draw the line at women who are dating other guys and/or especially married women.
> This is in no way indicative of how your fellow worker feels, but I would tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.
> What is important is how both you and your husband view it.


I gave him the benefit of the doubt. That was my problem. Everyone picked up on what he was really after but me. Not going to happen again. Beowulf and I agree totally on what the boundaries should be. My problem is that I didn't see when the boundary was being violated.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Just curious, does anyone at the school know your past history?


No, I wasn't working there when I had my affair and I do not generally talk about my personal life. Of course that changed a little bit when I started talking more and more about Beowulf in work. I think a couple of the other women picked up on what I was doing but they never said anything.


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Morrigan said:


> I think the reason I don't see the bad in people or that potential to do bad in people is because I myself did something so bad a long time ago and I've been trying to forget it.


This may be, but my wife went through a period, relatively early in our courtship, of flirting in front of me. I made it a point to put up a boundary. She would claim not to "see it". I told her then that people can send off a signal or subconsciously encourage people to sense that they are available, even when they are not. She understood that she was disrespecting me by not establishing a better boundary, but we didn't quite see eye to eye.

Some years later, after therapy, she figured out that she got a lot of her self esteem from being attractive. She liked the dopamine rush from any man's attention. She had to relearn how to act with men other than me. She now exudes strong confidence but there is also a healthy boundary. She (biased I am) is even more attractive, but even lecherous guys don't come on strong because she is clearly unavailable.

When I originally read your very flirty post about how good the Chef's food was, I was reminded of my wife's flirtatious behavior. It was cute......but not so great for her own self esteem or our relationship.


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