# Will he ever marry me? Should I move on?



## kitty_9474

Hi everyone – I’ve been living with my boyfriend for going on four years in September. I have rarely brought up the conversation of marriage but I’m really getting to that point. Especially now because I’m pregnant (five weeks/very early). 

Just to give you a bit of history. He was married once with two children (5 & 7) and is divorced because his wife cheated on him. I’ve never been married.

Anyway, we moved in together very quickly. Since then I’ve played the role of “wife” and “step mom” to his children. I do everything that a wife would do, etc. etc.

Yesterday I brought up the conversation. Asked if he had any intention of marrying me and he said “why are you asking me this?” I said I just want to do things the right way. I said you got married to your ex when she was pregnant and I’m feeling that now that you’re older it’s time to settle down. He said that he got married to her because when she got pregnant because he had come from relationships with multiple miscarriages and a few abortions and he felt guilty. He also felt it was that time. That our situation is different and I shouldn’t compare. That I’m also approaching him the wrong way about it. I said “if you don’t see marriage in our future just let me know so I can move on”. He said “oh, now you’re demanding”. I said, I’m not demanding anything. I just want to do things the right way and I have a right to know what’s in store for my future. I said “why can’t you just carry on a normal conversation?” and he said that the fact that I was bringing up marriage and demanding answers was not normal. That I look bad for approaching him that way.

He was really annoyed. Said that I shouldn’t “force him” to talk about things like this. That because I’m pregnant doesn’t mean we should automatically run to the courthouse. I ended the conversation with the saying “why buy the cow when you get the milk for free, right?” He said why are you saying that and I said because that’s what it seems to be right now. I told him I have some decisions to make.

I’m really sad and don’t know what to do. I can’t even talk to him about it. I couldn’t even word everything how I wanted to or get everything out because he turned a conversation about our future into an argument. Got really defensive.

Now, I’m not sure if he’s scared or just doesn’t want to marry me. I figured that going on four years living together and now me being pregnant that he’d really want to settle down. It’s not looking like it. Especially if he can’t talk about it. He says all of the time how I’m marriage material, etc. so what is the problem? He claims to love me so much and never wants to be without me. Again, what’s the problem? I treat him so well. Am amazing to him and his two children. Cook, clean, and am a wife but without the commitment.

I told him that it’s very important to me to settle down and be married and he had nothing to say. He was so angry and annoyed.

I’m in such a vulnerable spot being pregnant and all. If I weren’t pregnant I’d probably just give him an ultimatum (which I know he wouldn’t do well with because he’s beyond stubborn). He’d probably just get up and leave.

I don’t know what to do? How to approach it. I want to have a heart to heart but I don’t want to keep pressuring him either.

I’m even having thoughts of not going forward with the pregnancy (please don’t judge me) as I already raised a child on my own as a single woman and don’t want to bring another child into the world that way.

Any thoughts and advice on what to do? 

Is this guy just using me? Should I move on? Do any of you have a different way to “approach” him about it? Where he’ll be more receptive?

Thanks!


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## lamaga

OUCH. I'm so sorry.

I'd plan on moving on. If he wants to wake up and stop you, then that's a whole different conversation, but the way that your discussion of marriage went does not bode well. It may be that he doesn't want to marry you, it may be that he doesn't want to marry anyone, or it may be that he's just kind of a jerk. But none of these options look good for you. 

I'm sorry. I wish I could tell you something different.

And btw, the choice of what to do about your pregnancy is completely yours, don't let anyone judgmental even get into your head. They aren't going to be there changing diapers at 2 am for you, are they?


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## humanbecoming

He would just leave if you demanded he marry you after all the comments and the years together? 

How does that sound to you? 

I dated my wife for 6 years before we got married.... after 5 years she said she was not going to wait forever. I sold my truck and bought her a ring! We got married as year later.

For me, it was wanting to wait until my finances were where I wanted them... In truth, they never would have been perfect enough to make me feel secure about marriage, so I just had to take that leap. I was afraid that once married, children would follow quickly, and I wanted to be ready.... 

Has he ever said anything that gives you a clue as to why he might be holding back, especially now with you expecting?


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## Mavash.

He doesn't want to marry you. His anger speaks volumes. Don't even bother speaking to him again about this. Make your decision on your own as he's already stated his position.

I'm so sorry.


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## A Bit Much

I think he's happy with how things are, and doesn't want to be married. Will he ever? Who knows... but one thing you do know is he doesn't even want to talk about it right now. I wouldn't ask him about it again. For what? Just to get into a fight over it?

You two aren't on the same page.


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## kitty_9474

Why do you guys think this is? Not wanting to marry me when all he says and does? All that I do? He says I'm the perfect woman, etc.?

I'm just so confused. Extremely emotional.


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## Shiksa

He gave you his answer about marriage. Now you have to decide what you want. Sounds like you need the commitment (as would I) and security of marriage. You have some hard choices to make, but they are only yours to make. Hugs to you.


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## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> Why do you guys think this is? Not wanting to marry me when all he says and does? All that I do? He says I'm the perfect woman, etc.?
> 
> I'm just so confused. Extremely emotional.


You're the perfect woman without the marriage. This is how he sees it. You've given him so much without the ring. He can tell you he loves you, which is most likely true. He does, but he isn't ready to marry you. Who knows why. Maybe he doesn't want to ever marry anyone else. Only he knows the reasons.


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## lamaga

Kitty, I don't know why it is, and you may never know either, but what I'd urge you to do is not blame yourself. He sounds very immature to me. And it's natural for us women to blame ourselves -- am I not pretty enough, am I not thin enough, don't I keep house well enough, blah blah blah. This is not about you -- that much I can pretty much guarantee.

Of course you are confused and emotional, this was quite a blow for you. If you gloss it over and stay around, then you'll get this blow again several months down the road -- or you can deal with it now. Either option is valid, and I've done both -- and only you will know when you are ready.

But the other decision will not wait, clock's a-ticking on that one. Do you have any friends locally that you can talk to? Because you are facing a couple of huge decisions right at the same time, and that's not easy -- factor in pregnancy hormones and I'm amazed you can even type.

So no matter what you decide, please find a friend to talk to (or keep talking to us, but it's not the same) and please please please take care of yourself. He is a master at putting you down, you've realized that, right? Don't let him do it to you this time.

Best of luck, best of luck. Keep posting.


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## A Bit Much

I have a question...

In the 4 years together, have you EVER talked about where you wanted the relationship to go? That you wanted to marry him one day?


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## kitty_9474

Yes we have talked about it. He has before said that yes, marriage down the road but never definitive. He said that he'll do it when he's ready. I just brought it up again yesterday because I'm pregnant now and want to know where my future stands.

Should I talk to him again? I'm feeling pretty pathetic and beyond sad right now.

I've always let him walk all over me. He's gotten away with lots and I've forgiven. He doesn't respect me so when I give an ultimatum he won't believe it unless I really act on it.


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## lamaga

Kitty, stop and think...do you really want to marry a man who doesn't respect you?


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## Mavash.

kitty_9474 said:


> He says I'm the perfect woman


Okay what I'm about to tell you is HUGE. And its something that everyone needs to realize about people.

Actions speak louder than words.

He doesn't want to get married to you or anyone else. He wants to cake eat (getting all the benefits of marriage without the committment) and that's fine for HIM. Now you need to decide what you want and go from there. Has nothing to do with him anymore.


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## Mavash.

kitty_9474 said:


> Should I talk to him again? I'm feeling pretty pathetic and beyond sad right now.
> 
> I've always let him walk all over me. He's gotten away with lots and I've forgiven. He doesn't respect me so when I give an ultimatum he won't believe it unless I really act on it.


If you talk to him again you will be pathetic.

And why oh why would you want to marry someone who walks all over you and doesn't respect you? Sounds to me like he's just done you a huge favor.


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## kitty_9474

I figured we'd talk again so I can explain all that I'm feeling. He didn't say yesterday that he wasn't going to so I'm just wanting to know. Have closure. Know for sure that there is no option in the future.

P.S. I'm normally not this sensitive. I'm sure you all understand with the state I'm in.


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## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> Yes we have talked about it. *He has before said that yes, marriage down the road but never definitive. He said that he'll do it when he's ready.* I just brought it up again yesterday because I'm pregnant now and want to know where my future stands.
> 
> Should I talk to him again? I'm feeling pretty pathetic and beyond sad right now.
> 
> I've always let him walk all over me. He's gotten away with lots and I've forgiven. *He doesn't respect me *so when I give an ultimatum he won't believe it unless I really act on it.


No, don't bother bringing it up, he doesn't want to talk about it. He told you he'd marry when he's ready... doesn't look like he is, even though you're pregnant. Did you plan the pregnancy? I'm sorry, but having a baby with someone doesn't guarantee a thing. 

Please try not to be sad about this. It's not useful. What you need to do is something useful. You have a couple of choices to make... stay with him without knowing if or when he'll propose, or walk away. He could very well change his mind if you leave him, but honestly? I wouldn't want to marry him with the way he acts. And the not respecting you? That's a whole other thread. Love and respect go hand in hand IMO. How can he love you so much, but not have any respect for you as a person?


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## that_girl

> I’ve been living with my boyfriend for going on four years in September.


And he hasn't brought it up or you two haven't talked about it?

Yeaaa....time to move on. He won't marry you. It's said that men know if they will marry a woman within 2 years. It's been 4 years and not a hint of marriage. Move on or waste your life HOPING it will happen.

Oh, and you're pregnant  4 years living together, pregnant and he hasn't said anything about marriage?  Sorry.


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## lamaga

Kitty, I understand the state you're in. I understand because I was there once. And I had repeated conversations to explain myself, and wrote long heartfelt letters, and blah blah blah.

He doesn't want to marry you. It doesn't matter why. He doesn't want to marry you, and he doesn't even care enough to come up with a plausible excuse. The sooner you accept that, the sooner this nightmare will be over.

I'm so sorry to be blunt, but I wish someone had been blunt with me in a similar situation.


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## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> I figured we'd talk again so I can explain all that I'm feeling. He didn't say yesterday that he wasn't going to so I'm just wanting to know. Have closure. Know for sure that there is no option in the future.
> 
> P.S. I'm normally not this sensitive. I'm sure you all understand with the state I'm in.


You don't need to explain yourself. He understands full well how you feel. He just doesn't feel the same way and doesn't like you trying to force or convince him to do something he doesn't want to do.


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## that_girl

lamaga said:


> Kitty, I understand the state you're in. I understand because I was there once. And I had repeated conversations to explain myself, and wrote long heartfelt letters, and blah blah blah.
> 
> He doesn't want to marry you. It doesn't matter why. He doesn't want to marry you, and he doesn't even care enough to come up with a plausible excuse. The sooner you accept that, the sooner this nightmare will be over.
> 
> I'm so sorry to be blunt, but I wish someone had been blunt with me in a similar situation.


I was there too! Pregnant and with a man who would never marry me. We lived together for over a year after the baby was born and when I brought it up, he said he wasn't ready. ??

Leaving him was the best thing I ever did. Wasn't about to waste my life with someone who could make a child with me but didn't think I was good enough to marry.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Live by the statement "why buy the milk when the cow is free?". 

I honestly did not move in with my husband until after we were married. He had the nice house, money to support us, ect... I was working, going to college and raising my daughter. However, he did take things much faster then your bf. Both my husband and I were previously married. We both had bad marriages that did not work out. We knew that we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together. We've been married 12 years now.

My first marriage I was pregnant and married for the sake of my child. That was the biggest mistake I've ever made. My ex was abusive, controlling, and unfaithful. He also blamed everything 100% as my fault including the cheating. I took that situation as a major life lesson.

I'm very sorry your in the situation your in. You have 2 choices. You can either stay where your at feeling incomplete or you can move on and move out. Either your current bf will take you seriously and propose or he will hit the road and forever live the single life. It's apparent by his actions that he's comfortable being single and that's not going to change. 

If you decide to move out and he truly loves you, he'll propose and not let you go.


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## A Bit Much

I also was in a similar situation. We had been together 4 years, I got pregnant, and I gave him an ultimatum. Marry me or I'm out of here. He went through with it, but under duress... he wasn't ready.

We divorced 3.5 years later. I wish I had walked rather than given the ultimatum. When a man really wants you, he lets you know. There will be no doubt whatsoever, because his actions will back up his words.

I've been married almost 10 years now to a man that I met and married in 6 months. He proposed to me around month 4 of us dating. I've never been treated so good in my life. To him, the sun rises and sets with me.

Kitty, THAT'S real love. Not throwing a fit because you were asked a grown up question.


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## that_girl

> When a man really wants you, he lets you know. There will be no doubt whatsoever, because his actions will back up his words.


This.

When a man wants something, he gets it. If you have to talk him into it, it won't work.


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## LovesHerMan

Kitty:
His anger about this issue speaks volumes. Do you really want to marry someone who refuses to have a calm conversation about something so important to both of you?

I know that you cannot imagine being on your own right now, but once you see the situation clearly, you will be so glad that you moved on with your life. Find a good man who wants to take care of you, and does not take advantage of your giving nature. Good guys are out there; you just have to be open to finding one.


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## that_girl

He won't have a calm conversation about it because he doesn't want to do it!

People who want to do something do not get angry or defensive about it.


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## Dollystanford

marriage isn't important to some people - my friends have been together 20 years and have kids/house, etc. and aren't married. It works for BOTH of them

it's clearly important to you though, and if he's not willing to even discuss it then it doesn't really bode well for your future

if marriage is what you want then it doesn't sound like this is the guy that's gonna give it

sorry honey


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## Mavash.

kitty_9474 said:


> Have closure. Know for sure that there is no option in the future.


Closure: A wishful thinking conversation that people have hoping they get a different answer this time.


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## FirstYearDown

I have a cousin who has been with her kids father for ten years.
She has been very depressed recently because he won't marry her.

I don't think it's a good idea to have babies out of wedlock with someone if you want marriage. I say this because not all men will marry a woman just because they have his kid and it puts the woman at a disadvantage-she has given so much and waiting for a commitment.

He is not going to marry you. Time to pack up and move on.


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## vrep

What does marriage give you other than an expensive 1 day memory and ring? Nothing changes....

Well maybe less sex and less cuddling..


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## Blue Moon

It's my philosophy that when a man wants to marry you, you don't have to ask, prod or find out. We have ZERO societal pressure on us to get married, so if it's in his head he'd have let you know already in some form or fashion.


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## kitty_9474

Thanks for all of the quick responses and advice. This is a super crappy situation.

I know that maybe he is afraid to be married because his ex is raping him now for child support, etc. I understand that.

My whole thing is if that's the case then talk about it! I mean, right?

I'm also having some sort of entitlement feeling going on over here. We're going on four years so I damn well deserve to know where we're headed. If not, he should respectfully just say no. Such a coward.

He's going to regret it. I KNOW that I'm the best thing that has ever happened to him. He's not going to find a woman that is going to take him in with his two daughters and his (step daughter) who he never fully adopted. He EXPECTS me to be kind and want her around as well whenever he has her because he tries to pick up her up every chance he can when he gets his daughter.

I deal with alot and accept alot. He doesn't see that though. For some reason he thinks that he's going to find another woman like me and I think he may have to learn the hard way.

Then again, we could break up and he get married within a year to someone else. That would just break my heart.

I'm so sad. Have never felt this sad in my life. He's been my best friend for so many years.


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## lamaga

Oooh, Vrep...is it National Cynicism Day already?


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## lamaga

Sigh. Kitty, he is not your best friend. But at this point, you aren't your best friend either.

Do you have some local friends you can talk to? Let me guess...they've already been telling you what we are telling you, and that's why you are here.

I can already tell you are not going to listen, so I wish you all the best. Good luck.


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## A Bit Much

> He's not going to find a woman that is going to take him in with his two daughters and his (step daughter) who he never fully adopted. He EXPECTS me to be kind and want her around as well whenever he has her because he tries to pick up her up every chance he can when he gets his daughter.


Um I don't want to point out the obvious, but just like he found you to be there for him, someone else could and would do the same thing.

I know what you want, but I'm afraid if you push this issue, you're going to get more of the same. Hostility. He's not going to tell you what you want to hear. He's not scared. If he truly loves you, he knows what he wants, don't tell that lie to yourself. He would have proposed to you a long time ago if that's what he wanted. 4 years have been invested here, not 4 months or 4 weeks.

It's not the child support. Although he'll be on the hook for your child together too if you do decide to leave him. I honestly don't think he believes you have the courage to leave him. You've done/taken a lot over these 4 years. You've shown him what you will already accept from him in this relationship. It doesn't sound balanced at all.


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## that_girl

He doesn't want to marry you.

I wish someone told me those words (and I would have listened!) when I was in your situation. Would have saved me a ton of drama.


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## Gaia

Mavash. said:


> Okay what I'm about to tell you is HUGE. And its something that everyone needs to realize about people.
> 
> Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> He doesn't want to get married to you or anyone else. He wants to cake eat (getting all the benefits of marriage without the committment) and that's fine for HIM. Now you need to decide what you want and go from there. Has nothing to do with him anymore.


^^^^ This.... is really discouraging.....


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## Dollystanford

kitty_9474 said:


> He's going to regret it. I KNOW that I'm the best thing that has ever happened to him.


yeah for the first two weeks after my H left this was going through my mind. And I know damn well he won't find anyone like me, every single one of his friends and his own mother has told him the same

it makes no difference whatsoever

maybe he'll find out the hard way but by then you'll have moved on

and you should


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## Mavash.

kitty_9474 said:


> I'm also having some sort of entitlement feeling going on over here. We're going on four years so I damn well deserve to know where we're headed. If not, he should respectfully just say no. Such a coward.


This is a problem. Not to be mean but he doesn't owe you anything. He told you who he was by way of his actions but you chose to move in, stay for 4 years AND get pregnant. These were all your choices and now you're just upset that it didn't go as you planned.

He's not a coward he told you how he felt and he continues to do so. What you do with that information is still up to you.


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## Hicks

You did too good of a job acting married to him so he doesn't need the real thing... You are mothering his children, providing him with sex, getting pregnant, living with him... There is no reason for a man to get married when he is enjoying all the benefits of marriage... 

One fact to point out is if he is the father of your child, you can rape him for child support no different than an ex wife could.

But at this point, this situation was created by your actions. In the future you should understand that you make the man work earn things rather than hand it to him. At this point though, your primary mode of decision should be "what is best for your child?"... What do you belive is in your child's best interest? That's what you should do.


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## A Bit Much

There are women out there that are givers and pleasers to the point of losing their own sanity for a man.

My ex (the one I gave the ultimatum to) is finally getting remarried after being divorced from me 16 years to a woman that got pregnant just in Feb. She's been with him about 3 years... moved in with him last year. Our son is 19, and now he's about to have a newborn in the fall. He and I also battled in court for about 9 years, and she was privy to some of it in the beginning of their relationship. The stuff you think a woman would run from didn't deter her one bit. Now he's having ANOTHER shotgun wedding at the ripe age of 43.

A man that will fight you over marriage is not a man you want any relationship with. If you want to be married you need to go find a man who wants to be married too. This one isn't the one.


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## kitty_9474

I am listening to you all. Promise! Is there a 360 move I should pull? Maybe stop playing the wife role? 

Is it ever to late to stand up for myself and change things?

Please understand how hormonal and out of whack I am right now. It's so hard with all involved. I'm so involved with his family (his sisters love me), his daughters and I are so close, etc. etc. He has a lot to lose.

Again, so vulnerable. Just wanting to give it my all before I make a move. Not an easy one, at that.

P.S. His ex wife and I are really good friends as well. We have a great relationship. Do you see what I mean how he has a lot to lose?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> If I weren’t pregnant I’d probably just give him an ultimatum. He’d probably just get up and leave.


YOU have answered your own question (even though it is not the answer you would have liked.) 

IF you were NOT pregnant and you laid down an ultimatum, HE WOULD LEAVE YOU.

Therefore it is safe to assume that with you being pregnant, if you laid down an ultimatum and he DID NOT LEAVE YOU, it would be ONLY BECAUSE OF the child. THAT is NOT a good enough reason to get married. That is not a marriage that will last more than 5 years (and I'm probably being generous there!)

You need to make TWO important decisions. First things first! ASSUME the worst (thus you will be prepared for what YOU consider the worst possible outcome...if anything better comes out of it, you will be happily surprised!)

ASSUME you will be raising this child for 18+ years without your BF. ARE YOU WILLING TO DO THIS AGAIN? (I make ABSOLUTELY NO JUDGEMENT!) This is THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION YOU HAVE TO MAKE AT THIS TIME. Get this decision made FIRST THING. 

Second decision, do you want to stay with BF? Considering he has NO RESPECT for you, I don't know why you'd want to stay with him. EVEN IF he married you tomorrow (because of the child or not because of the child), you will still be living with a man who DOES NOT RESPECT YOU. It is VERY DIFFICULT to love someone (especially in the long-term) THAT YOU DO NOT RESPECT.

Yes, you have 4 years invested with this man. You don't have to make it 5 years wasted with this man, or 7 years wasted with this man, or 14 years wasted with this man. If you're good enough to cook, clean, take care of his kids, but NOT to marry of his own free-will, then you're nothing but a very cheap nanny/housekeeper! Move on, and find someone NEW who will LOVE you and RESPECT you!

If he comes running after you with a ring once you've left, then SLAM THE DOOR IN HIS FACE! He's probably just figured out how much $$$ it's going to cost him to have a cleaning service, a cook, and a housekeeper watch his children on a regular basis. You gave him 4 years, now GIVE HIM THE BOOT!!!


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## that_girl

You want to do a 180, a 360 would just land you where you are now.

Stop being a 'wife'.


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## lamaga

Kitty check your PM


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## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> I am listening to you all. Promise! Is there a 360 move I should pull? Maybe stop playing the wife role?
> 
> Is it ever to late to stand up for myself and change things?
> 
> Please understand how hormonal and out of whack I am right now. It's so hard with all involved. I'm so involved with his family (his sisters love me), his daughters and I are so close, etc. etc. He has a lot to lose.
> 
> Again, so vulnerable. Just wanting to give it my all before I make a move. Not an easy one, at that.


You've given him all you have already. Stop it.

You need to reconcile this within yourself. HE MAY NEVER MARRY YOU. Live with him and keep doing what you're doing if you want. But if you do, don't pressure him about getting married. You have to wait him out.


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## Mavash.

Don't make any life altering decisions (like ultimatums or marriage) while pregnant and hormonal.

Stop being a wife - you aren't one

Learn to love and respect yourself. Quit letting him walk all over you.


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## that_girl

Yea. Don't give ultimatums anyway. Do you really want a man who needs to be coerced into marriage  ??

Just mellow. Don't say any more about marriage. Do a 180 and take care of you and your unborn


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## Dollystanford

btw, the most insightful thing my ex said when he was walking out of the door was 'best friends don't treat each other like this'


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## A Bit Much

> Stop being a wife - you aren't one


:iagree:

Any more investment in this relationship knowing you may not ever get what you want in the end is on you Kitty. He doesn't owe you anything.


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## kitty_9474

Right, I hear all of you. He just made a move that makes me want to kick him out right now anyway.

He just called to say that he's getting two weeks of vacation time for work and he's going to be taking his daughters for the two weeks. I asked if he was going to be getting his "step daughter" as well because he always brings her along and he said yes. I told him that was going to be hard with the tiny apartment we live in. There will be 6 of us in an aparmtment made for two. I told him "why can't you have her mom make arrangements for the other girl" since it's not your daughter and he just hung up on me.

Are you kidding me?! So I'm not allowed to say that without being hung up on? He tried to control everything I do and I'm about fed up and tired. I'm realizing now that this is not the life that I want to live. I don't HAVE to take any additional baggage of his on ESPECIALLY when he doesn't have enough respect to talk like a normal human being.

I'm so over it. I feel like kicking him to the curb now. Like I'm EXPECTED to take his extra child in who doesn't even belong to him?!?!?!!? Like I don't have a say? It's my damn apartment and he lives with ME!


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## that_girl

He comes with children. That "step child" is a part of his family as much as his bio-kids. That "step child" has siblings that she is a part of in life. My stepdad was more of a father to me than my real father ever was. I may not have come from his sperm but I WAS his child...but his wife after my mom had YOUR attitude and I was kicked to the curb. Messed me up badly.

I don't think this is a good match. At all.


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## A Bit Much

Kitty.. girl.... please save yourself. I mean that sincerely.


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## Mavash.

Waking up to the truth is painful.

You now see him for who he really is. An angry man incapable of managing his emotions. He sounds quite childish.


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## kitty_9474

that girl, yes he comes with two children. The other is not his. She lived with him for two years. I SHOULD NOT be expected to take her on. I'm fine with his REAL daughters but not taking care of her. I'm sorry. I shouldn't be expected to either. Especially because of the way he treats me.

He is expecting a lot from me and has alot of balls treating me the way he does with all I do take on. She has spent time with us from time to time and I have been very accomodating. I don't HAVE to do that.

If he were a better man, than maybe. But it's not worth it.


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## lamaga

Kitty, he picked a fight. Right after this conversation about marriage. What does this tell you?

He wants out, and he doesn't have the balls.


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## Mavash.

lamaga said:


> Kitty, he picked a fight. Right after this conversation about marriage. What does this tell you?
> 
> He wants out, and he doesn't have the balls.


:iagree:


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## that_girl

You don't have to accept his stepchild but...how sad. Maybe he thinks of her like a daughter. To shun a child...wow.

I've been that child and it sucks ass. 2 weeks is nothing. It's a battle I wouldn't fight.


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## that_girl

And seeing how you talk about him and your relationship, why do you want to marry him?


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## Mavash.

This fight had nothing to do with that child and everything to do with their relationship or lack therof.


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## A Bit Much

I don't think he wants out. He wants compliance. He wants more of what he has been getting the last 4 years because it's been good. 

I'm sure this isn't the first time he's hung up on her either. And I bet she has called him back to try and 'explain' herself or apologize in some way. 

I say this all the time, but it's the truth. We teach people how to treat us.


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## Mavash.

A Bit Much said:


> I don't think he wants out. He wants compliance. He wants more of what he has been getting the last 4 years because it's been good.
> 
> I'm sure this isn't the first time he's hung up on her either. And I bet she has called him back to try and 'explain' herself or apologize in some way.
> 
> I say this all the time, but it's the truth. We teach people how to treat us.


Yes how dare she rock the boat NOW after 4 years. LOL


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## A Bit Much

Mavash. said:


> Yes how dare she rock the boat NOW after 4 years. LOL


Right? She's lost her everloving mind. And he's going to show he's not pleased by expressing his anger in so many ways.


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## kitty_9474

A Bit Much, exactly. He has hung up numerous times when he doesn't hear what he wants to hear or is not getting his way. 

If I ever try to put him in his place or show him somewhere he is making a wrong decision this is how he acts. 

I in the past have tried back to try to explain but as of late I don't even bother. I just texted him "grow up, thanks for the laugh" because at this point that's all I can do is laugh. What adult man acts like that? I've spoiled him and have let him get away with murder and I'm done. I'm not kidding. As of right now, I'm done. He can kiss my ass.

Sorry for cussing. But seriosuly, who does he think he is? Can we say narcissist?


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## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> A Bit Much, exactly. He has hung up numerous times when he doesn't hear what he wants to hear or is not getting his way.
> 
> If I ever try to put him in his place or show him somewhere he is making a wrong decision this is how he acts.
> 
> I in the past have tried back to try to explain but as of late I don't even bother. I just texted him "grow up, thanks for the laugh" because at this point that's all I can do is laugh. What adult man acts like that? I've spoiled him and have let him get away with murder an I'm done. I'm not kidding. As of right now, I'm done. He can kiss my ass.
> 
> Sorry for cussing. But seriosuly, who does he think he is? Can we say narcissist?


Make your moves then, and I for one wish you luck. Sometimes we need a good hard shove in the right direction to make us do something we should have done in a long time. Maybe for you, coming here to TAM and his actions of late is your good hard shove?


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## that_girl

kitty_9474 said:


> A Bit Much, exactly. He has hung up numerous times when he doesn't hear what he wants to hear or is not getting his way.
> 
> If I ever try to put him in his place or show him somewhere he is making a wrong decision this is how he acts.
> 
> I in the past have tried back to try to explain but as of late I don't even bother. I just texted him "grow up, thanks for the laugh" because at this point that's all I can do is laugh.  What adult man acts like that? I've spoiled him and have let him get away with murder and I'm done. I'm not kidding. As of right now, I'm done. He can kiss my ass.
> 
> Sorry for cussing. But seriosuly, who does he think he is? Can we say narcissist?


So.....why, exactly, do you even want to marry him? :scratchhead: Seems this is a good thing...


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## kitty_9474

Yes A Bit Much..I need for you guys to keep giving me that shove! Some people are in la la land..I tell ya! He's going to have to learn the hard way. Funny thing is he is probably expecting a call right now and he's not going to get it. He also thinks he has me where he wants me because I'm prego but again, he'll have to learn the hard way.


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## Mavash.

Kitty I'm on your side truly I am but you need to learn how to handle conflict going foward. I've made all the same mistakes so trust me I know what I speak of. 

Putting men in their place, pointing out their bad decisions and stooping to their level is never effective or productive communication. Your guy is a jerk no doubt but you are adding fuel to that fire. KWIM?


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## Gaia

kitty_9474 said:


> If I ever try to put him in his place


Sorry to burst your bubble.. but no man or woman has a specific... "place" or "role" they are required to live by. I understand your angry and you have a right to be. My situation is almost identical to yours only it's been almost five years and despite letting him know how much it would mean to me.. he hasn't made the least bit of effort to even get an engagement ring. Like someone stated before he's just cake eating. Oh and don't take anything out on that poor child... it's not her fault.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

kitty_9474 said:


> Right, I hear all of you. He just made a move that makes me want to kick him out right now anyway.
> 
> He just called to say that he's getting two weeks of vacation time for work and he's going to be taking his daughters for the two weeks. I asked if he was going to be getting his "step daughter" as well because he always brings her along and he said yes. I told him that was going to be hard with the tiny apartment we live in. There will be 6 of us in an aparmtment made for two. I told him "why can't you have her mom make arrangements for the other girl" since it's not your daughter and he just hung up on me.
> 
> Are you kidding me?! So I'm not allowed to say that without being hung up on? He tried to control everything I do and I'm about fed up and tired. I'm realizing now that this is not the life that I want to live. I don't HAVE to take any additional baggage of his on ESPECIALLY when he doesn't have enough respect to talk like a normal human being.
> 
> I'm so over it. I feel like kicking him to the curb now. Like I'm EXPECTED to take his extra child in who doesn't even belong to him?!?!?!!? Like I don't have a say? It's my damn apartment and he lives with ME!


Honestly, I think it's great that he takes on this other child with his own 2 girls. Kids love and need to be together, even if they have to sleep on the living room floor. 2 weeks might be a long time, but if he's there the whole time taking care of them as to feeding, cleaning, and entertaining them I understand. This is something I would not be upset about. You'll understand this better when you have children and they are older. I have 3 girls, my oldest just turned 18. Tomorrow summer starts and I'll have kids over everyday. Somehow, they all end up at my house. Maybe it's my home cooked meals from scratch. I will have up to 10 kids here at a time. It's noisy, crowded, but they all need to be together. 

Yes, it's your apartment, but these are his children. One more body will not take up that much space. You'll probably be exhausted near the end and ready for them to leave, but wanting a girl to stay where there's no other kids to play with is not fun for the child. I completely understand his view on this one. Maybe you can stay with a family member or friend during this time. Therefore, he is taking full responsibility for these girls.

The marriage situation is not good. Something needs to be done. If I were in your situation, I'd leave.


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## seesah

kitty_9474 said:


> I figured we'd talk again so I can explain all that I'm feeling. He didn't say yesterday that he wasn't going to so I'm just wanting to know. Have closure. Know for sure that there is no option in the future.


The problem with this is if you're desperately asking him for an absolute answer and he knows that, he may not give it to you for fear of it being the deal-breaker for you. Or he may not even know himself. What happens if he never gives you a straight answer? Will you continue to stay with him until he does? Getting defensive and angry speaks volumes. Anger and defensiveness are also ways of deflecting the line of questioning.

It's no use giving an ultimatum about this because you shouldn't get married under these pretenses. You have to decide if this is a deal-breaker for you and then figure out what you need to do to live your life without him. If that means having an abortion so you don't have to raise a child alone, so be it.


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## seesah

kitty_9474 said:


> that girl, yes he comes with two children. The other is not his. She lived with him for two years. I SHOULD NOT be expected to take her on. I'm fine with his REAL daughters but not taking care of her. I'm sorry. I shouldn't be expected to either. Especially because of the way he treats me.
> 
> He is expecting a lot from me and has alot of balls treating me the way he does with all I do take on. She has spent time with us from time to time and I have been very accomodating. I don't HAVE to do that.
> 
> If he were a better man, than maybe. But it's not worth it.


Hah, and you wonder why he hung up on you? Yeah it's childish, but so is making him choose between his step-daughter and you. He probably feels that he shouldn't have to explain himself to you when it comes to that. Should he have hung up on you? Probably not. You need to reevaluate your outlook on his relationship with all of his children, biological or not.

If you're not willing to treat his step-daughter like you treat his BIOLOGICAL daughters (not his "REAL" daughters), then don't marry this guy. Don't even push the issue. If you love him and you want to marry him, then you HAVE to treat all of his children the same way. I have a 9-year-old step-daughter who I treat as my own. If my H and I were no longer together, I would want parental time because I love her just as I would love my own child.


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## kitty_9474

Seesah - He hasn't necessarily taken my daughter in like he's taken the other girl in and she's been in his life for four years now? I'm just a bit annoyed by that. They get along and everything but...

Like I said, I'm very kind to her and accomodating but I'm not going to be "expected" to do so. I can see if he were a better man. It'd be easier.


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## that_girl

So he doesn't treat your daughter the same at this other child...

and you want to marry him?!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Geeez kitty, I'd leave him. He doesn't sound like a great catch anyway.


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## southern wife

How does he feel about the new baby on the way?


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## kitty_9474

As far as how he feels he says he's excited. He wants a big family. Is making sure I'm eating, taking care of myself. Told me to make sure I'm making an appt. to get in with a doc, etc.


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## FirstYearDown

A friend of mine received a marriage proposal right after she had a baby. Gee, I wonder why he asked?


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## lamaga

Kitty, he wants a big family but doesn't want to marry you?

Wow. I'd let him go get that big family elsewhere. You are not a brood mare.


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## courseplotter

The part that bothers me about all this is the inability or lack of desire to articulate his thoughts and emotion.

Being so hostile about it... that's not right. He's not being honest with you. If it's always been this way, it sounds like a major character flaw.


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## kitty_9474

courseplotter - it has ALWAYS been this way when we've had to discuss important things such as finances, etc. 

What is he not being honest about you think? He doesn't HAVE to be with me?

Also, why is he making future plans for living, finances, etc. now if he's lying about something?

Lamaga - You're right. I need to put my big girl pants on and move on. I'm not 100% happy with my life with him and all of his baggage but deathly afraid of being without him. I'm 37 and have a great job, am attractive, fun to be with so sometimes I just don't "get" why he won't commit how I want? Does that sound crazy?

I know I'm all over the place. Sometimes I think I'm sort of abused by him and don't know what is right from wrong anymore. I question everythign I do with him. I have to rehearse everything I say before a conversation because he says nothing I say ever makes sense so sometimes I feel like I'm crazy. No one will want me.

I don't think he'll ever change for anyone. According to his ex he was always full of himself and very ego maniac. He still is. That's why I'm thinking narcissist.

I'm also thinking that going through with this pregnancy will only make my life harder. He won't be around or I'll get fed up and want him gone. I'm just to a point where my daughter and I are able to hang out, have fun, etc. I feel like I'm starting my life.

Why be tied down more with a guy who is sort of an egotistical scum bag? Right?

Do you think he'll ever change? I get worried some girl will pick up what I view as "my prize".


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## that_girl

You're 37? I would have thought you were about 24 or so  Sorry.

You have everything going for you and you can be without him. He doesn't sound like anything special. In fact, he sounds like he's doing you a favor by NOT marrying you. 

Leave, get child support and be done with this clown. You are a WOMAN...you deserve a MAN.

He won't change. His ex said he was the same...why do you think he'll change for you?? Some girl will pick him up and he'll treat her the same at he's treating you...oh well. You really want this?


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## southern wife

He won't change unless he wants to change. Fear of losing you might make him change things about himself.

I don't think he wants to lose you. That said, I don't think he wants to be "pushed" into marriage. I believe he has a plan.............and his plan will include proposing to you when he is ready to do so. You're going to have his baby and therefore he will always be in your life.

Are you in love with him? Do you feel he is in love with you? It sounds like he's a good father to the other kids, and I'm sure he will be to the new baby as well. 

I say stick around...........you've got alot of time invested, he's created a home with you, and now you're going to have a baby together - which will change the whole dynamics of your relationship and hopefully for the better. In the meantime, let him continue to take care of you, make sure you're eating and what not during your pregnancy. It sounds like he wants to be there for you and with you, but stop bringing up marriage. Right now, there are other things to deal with. When all the ducks are in a row, it will happen, but that is up to his timing......not yours.

I wish you the best!


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## that_girl

^^ Wow. No.


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## Prodigal

kitty_9474 said:


> What is he not being honest about you think? He doesn't HAVE to be with me?
> 
> Also, why is he making future plans for living, finances, etc. now if he's lying about something?
> 
> but deathly afraid of being without him. I'm 37 and have a great job, am attractive, fun to be with so sometimes I just don't "get" why he won't commit how I want? Does that sound crazy?


I've followed this thread, and finally decided to throw my 2 cents into the pot. Quit trying to figure out why he's doing this or why he's not doing that, etc. 

He won't commit how you want because you have no control over what he chooses to do. Here is all you can control in your life: what you think, how you feel, and what you say. Not one human being, in the history of the world, has been able to control anyone, unless that person wished to be controlled.

The known evil is better to stick with, no matter how bad it is, than the unknown evil. What you have is the known evil. You make a decent living, which is a heckuva lot more than many people in the current economy. You are not ancient. There are over 300 million people living in this country today. I am fairly certain there is a man out there who would be a far better fit for you.

Being afraid of being alone means it's time for you to get into some pretty intensive IC. You are not alone. You have family. You have friends. You have acquaintances at work. 

Hanging onto this man is just self-perpetuating your misery. He does not want to marry you. Why not proceed with evicting him from YOUR apartment, which takes 30 days, or move to your own apartment and leave him there to fend for himself.

At least you will find out, beyond a shadow of a doubt, whether or not he really wants to be a part of your life.

I am honestly confused as to why a woman with your financial independence would want to remain with an immature, emotionally-stunted, man like this one. Your life. Your choice. But right now, as things stand HE DOES NOT WANT TO MARRY YOU. Do yourself a huge favor. Let him have it that way. You deserve one heckuva lot better than what this character has to offer. Really.


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## southern wife

Didn't realize he was an egotistal bastard. Missed that part! 

Scratch what I said above! ^^


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## Gaia

southern wife said:


> , but that is up to his timing......not yours.


This i disagree with. It shouldn't happen when just HE is ready.. and it shouldn't happen when just SHE is ready.. but she shouldn't have to sit and wait for him to decide she is finally worth it. That... is unfair to her imo even if he wasn't as bad as he is.


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## courseplotter

kitty_9474 said:


> courseplotter - it has ALWAYS been this way when we've had to discuss important things such as finances, etc.
> 
> What is he not being honest about you think? He doesn't HAVE to be with me?
> 
> Also, why is he making future plans for living, finances, etc. now if he's lying about something?
> 
> I'm also thinking that going through with this pregnancy will only make my life harder. He won't be around or I'll get fed up and want him gone. I'm just to a point where my daughter and I are able to hang out, have fun, etc. I feel like I'm starting my life.


I dunno. The guy probably has trust issues or issues with personal conflict (and no tools to think clearly and process conflict in the moment). It's hard to say knowing nothing but your perception of it and nothing about his life.

Also, re: lying and the future. He's not being honest about his feelings if he is trying to put it all back on you with those types of comments. He could be trying to coast through life and marriage = some kind of trigger, as well as being rather poor at communication.

And if you are thinking of terminating the pregnancy, I think it's an absolute shame that those are your reasons. I've heard a lot of excuses, but those are pretty staggering. If you'd like, I can put you in touch with some people who have gone through it, though. (I'm sure this will cue the my-body-my-choice people.)


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## Gaia

courseplotter said:


> (I'm sure this will cue the my-body-my-choice people.)


Sure it's their body.. but that child has a body of his/her own... and imo... they are robbing that child of a choice if they do abort. But thats just my viewpoint. (Sorry for going off topicish.)


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## lamaga

I think anyone who has views on what Kitty should do with her pregnancy should a) ask themselves if it's any of their business and b) if so, contact her privately.


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## Gaia

lamaga said:


> I think anyone who has views on what Kitty should do with her pregnancy should a) ask themselves if it's any of their business and b) if so, contact her privately.


I don't even recall her saying anything about aborting in the first place... i think it was just thrown out there for some odd reason?


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## Mavash.

Gaia said:


> I don't even recall her saying anything about aborting in the first place... i think it was just thrown out there for some odd reason?


She mentioned it but I for one wasn't going to touch that with a ten foot pole. I'm opinionated but even I have lines I won't cross. That is way too sensitive a topic for TAM and hope my post is the LAST one on the topic.


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## Gaia

Mavash. said:


> She mentioned it but I for one wasn't going to touch that with a ten foot pole. I'm opinionated but even I have lines I won't cross. That is way too sensitive a topic for TAM and hope my post is the LAST one on the topic.


:lol: I can see where it can get out of hand and sure people are entitled to state their opinion on a public forum... but your right.. some would do more then just say.. this is my opinion... I had to reread but i see where she made the suggestion now. Either way.. that IS a different topic from this one entirely so yeah.. back on topic..


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## KirkSpock

Hmm, my opinion on this seems to differ slightly than the majority here. I’ll start off by saying at this point, the guy just should to marry you already(ie:you have a kid on the way, you already serve the role of mom, etc.), unless he has some pressing reason why he shouldn’t . At the same time, I see a LOT of “female” communication tactics at work here which don’t clash well with the “male” communication tactics, which in my opinion is why this has exploded. I’m not saying you were right or that he was right: I just think it’s best to take a breath and look at ways you could possibly improve your OWN communication which validates what you are trying to tell him.

* “I’ve been living with my boyfriend for going on four years in September. I have rarely brought up the conversation of marriage” *
My wife and I lived together for about 4 years as well, and she too hardly ever, IF EVER, brought up marriage. So imagine my own surprise when she came home in tears one day demanding to know when “it” was going to happen. It completely blindsided me and caused me to react pooly because I felt this came out of the blue and that I was being put on the spot. I see this too often in examining how men and women communicate: in her mind, it was this huuuuuge deal (yet she never said word 1 about it). In my mind, it wasn’t: because in my male mind, important issues are brought up and discussed frequently.

* “Yesterday I brought up the conversation. Asked if he had any intention of marrying me and he said “why are you asking me this?” I said I just want to do things the right way.” *
If you take into consideration what I typed above re: never talking about marriage, then this was a REASONABLE QUESTION from your man. Your response was infuriating, at least it would be to me: “the right way”??? I don’t even know what that means. Wouldn’t the ”right way” mean you two weren’t living together, or that you weren’t pregnant before getting married? “The right way” is such a nebulous, non answer. What does it mean???? As a man, I translate this to mean you DON’T KNOW WHY you want to get married.
* “I said you got married to your ex when she was pregnant and I’m feeling that now that you’re older it’s time to settle down.” *
So you jump from a non answer to comparing yourself to his x-wife. YIKES! DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! You just placed yourself in the same category of the woman who cheated on him. Not good, and, in my opinion, a little catty. You also emasculated him again by telling him what you think he needs to do (it’s time to settle down because you are older). Men don’t like being reminded that they are getting older any more than women do, and we certainly don’t want our lovers transforming into our mothers, telling us what we need to do and for what reasons 

* “He also felt it was that time. That our situation is different and I shouldn’t compare. That I’m also approaching him the wrong way about it.” *

He JUST TOLD you the crux of the problem: you are COMPLETELY approaching him the wrong way. You bring this up out of the blue and then start giving ultimatums (such as “if you don’t see marriage in our future just let me know so I can move on). Not the best way to broach a serious subject that hasn’t been brought up much in the past. You don’t mention this in your post, but was he in the middle of a project/movie/activity when you brought all this up?
* “He said “oh, now you’re demanding”. I said, I’m not demanding anything.” *

Except that you WERE demanding. You were demanding he commit, then and there, to an issue you had hardly discussed in the past. You gave him a caddy, nonsensical answer and then laid down the ultimatum. No one, male or female, likes these types of ambushes, but as a male, I think he there may have been the added bonus of being emasculated just ever so slightly. 

* “I just want to do things the right way and I have a right to know what’s in store for my future.” *

You use “the right way” again: again, what IS the “right way”? Here’s a better one for you that should help you when discussing this with him: write down a list of the REASONS you want to get married NOW. “the right way” is not a reason, but “I want my child to have a father, and I think that father should be my husband”, or “I want the father of my child to be able to visit me in the hospital if I ever wind up there, and only my husband can do that”, etc. These are TANGIBLE reasons that men can wrap their minds around, and either refute or accept.

Here’s where I am going with this: if you can come up with a few, understandable reasons for wanting to get married, then you can ask him directly and in a non caddy manner: Why DON’T you want to get married right now. AND LISTEN TO HIS ANSWERS.

*“He was really annoyed. Said that I shouldn’t “force him” to talk about things like this.”*

He felt ambushed…well…because you ambushed him. I think you would be 100% in the right, and your husband completely in the wrong, had you brought this up to him earlier or mentioned you wanted to set some time aside in the next few days to talk about your futures. As it was, you ARE forcing him to discuss a life changing decision using language that men simply can’t relate to very well.

*“I ended the conversation with the saying “why buy the cow when you get the milk for free, right?””*

That’s a very childish way to end a conversation. When my wife tried using that on me, I held her hand and looked lovingly into her eyes and said “I don’t think you look like a cow and I think it’s a shame you see yourself like that”. Things did not go well for me over the next few days hehehehe. But in all honesty, that’s a one sided argument: when you are in a relationship, you both give and take, unless you are suggesting that he does absolutely nothing in terms of providing for you and your family, and contributes nothing to your life or well being. Otherwise….you are both getting something out of this arrangement, and personally, if my significant other used that line on me, I would consider them to be clueless and insensitive as to my own contributions to the relationship, and would probably cause me to say some not so nice things back or react harshly.

* “I’m really sad and don’t know what to do. I can’t even talk to him about it. I couldn’t even word everything how I wanted to or get everything out because he turned a conversation about our future into an argument. Got really defensive.” *

This is my honest advice: Sit down with him after everything in the house is settled down, look him in the eyes, and tell him you are sorry. Tell him you didn’t mean to ambush him or jump down his throat….but this has been weighing very heavily on you lately and it’s come to a point where you need to address this. Tell him you want to have this conversation soon, but not when it’s going to cause an argument: when you can both discuss this as rational adults who love each other and want to plan their futures together. Tell him to pick a time and place over the next week or so (something along those lines). That would be my suggestion . Now, if he still reacts the same way, THEN….THEN you have every right to be pissed and to call him a jerk. But I think the way you approached him probably wasn’t the best, and you should forgive his defensiveness (as he should forgive your apprehension over getting married and your emotional state). 

That’s all I got. Good luck 


EDIT: Whoops, not only do I suck at spelling (CATTY, not caddy: we aren't playing golf after all), I didn't realize this thread went on for several pages. I only saw the first post. My mistake and apologies for not taking your additional info into account.


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## lamaga

KirkSpock, my very favorite expletive in the world is Jesus H F***ing Christ, and I rarely get to use it, but I am using it now.

Also, it's not caddy. It's catty. Although it wasn't, but if you are going to throw stones, you should at least spell your epithets correctly.


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## KirkSpock

Thanks for the correction  I didn't mean to throw any stones, just offering my opinion off of what I read from one post that will hopefully lead to a better discussion between OP and her SO 


BTW, I'm a big Buffy fan....love your avatar.


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## kitty_9474

Kirkspock - I appreciate your advice and I totally understand where you're coming from but I shouldn't have to walk on egg shells nor rehearse how I'm going to talk to him about things. It's going on four years! He knows my method of communication and the point I'm getting at, period.

Yesterday we were watching the movie He's Just Not That Into You. Not sure if any of you have seen it but seems to be perfect timing. Part of the story was a couple who had been together for 7 years and he wouldn't propose as he didn't believe in marriage. She decided that she couldn't do it anymore and left. Anyway, they wound up getting back together as she realized how much she missed him and he treated her better than some "husbands" she knew. Anyway, he wound up proposing to her. It was really sweet. I'm hoping that it implanted a seed in his head. haha!

Anyway, during the movie I said "that's going to be us huh?" He said no. I said we're getting married someday right? Or else (just joking with him) and he said yes. Not sure if it was just to shut me up or not but..

Now I have to tell you forumers something. I found out that he cheated on me a year ago and I decided to forgive him (I understand that it was a mistake). This is where I get the feeling of he has lost respect because of course I've given him reason to. Not sure if that means he'll never propose because he doesn't feel the need to as he thinks I'll never leave (which is wrong). 

I'm still thinking of what I want to do. With everything that happened yesterday, his numerous amounts of anger childish outbursts and all of his baggage I don't know if I want to deal with that for the rest of my life. 

Like I said and lots of you have said. I don't need him. He should be looking at me as the prize and not vice versa. I really need to take him off of this pedestal that I have him on. It's just that when he's good he's really good but the moments aren't always good.

He's a very conceited man. Thinks he can have any woman he wants or likes attention from woman. There are TONS of them at work who are after him. He holds a high position there and is very handsome and charming. I think sometimes that gets him off. Again, he is an ego maniac. Very narcissistic. I don't think I want that for the rest of my life. I'm 37 and not getting any younger you know?


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

kitty_9474 said:


> He's a very conceited man. Thinks he can have any woman he wants or likes attention from woman. There are TONS of them at work who are after him. He holds a high position there and is very handsome and charming. I think sometimes that gets him off. Again, he is an ego maniac. Very narcissistic. I don't think I want that for the rest of my life. I'm 37 and not getting any younger you know?


This also isn't a quality I would want in a man. Usually, these types are players and often have affairs emotional and/or physical. 

My husband solely focuses on me, not other women. He is a successful and very good looking man. However, he does not have the ego, he strives very hard to keep that ego at bay. My husband is also a very nice guy type as well. 

I know many men, including my ex h, who thinks like your bf. Not something I find attractive at all.

Good luck to you with whatever happens with this situation.


----------



## Prodigal

kitty_9474 said:


> I'm still thinking of what I want to do.


You originally came on here asking if this man would ever marry you, and how you might get him to change his mind and commit to marriage.

After all the perspectives/advice you've been given, you still don't know what you want to do with this albatross. 

So I'm going to give it to you straight: you want him to marry you. You are terrified to leave him. You are willing to put up with his crap, because you are afraid of the unknown.

One thing I've learned from being on boards for many years is this: it don't mean diddly-squat what any of us say; you are going to do precisely what you intend to do.

And I'd bet the farm that you will stay with this guy while he sits around till doomsday deciding whether or not he wants to marry you. And you will vent about his rotten characteristics.

That works fine for me; no skin off my nose. People have answered your question as to whether you should move on. After this many pages, you still don't know what you want to do.

I'm fine with that. I wish you the very best that life has to offer.


----------



## kitty_9474

Prodigal, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that I came to this forum HAVING to know exactly what I was doing INSTANTLY.

Please forgive me for being vulnerable and confused and thank you for the harshness.

Thank you to the rest of you have given wonderful insight. It is, from the bottom of my heart, appreciated.


----------



## that_girl

He has every right not to marry her.

She has every right to want to get married.

They have every right to have a stand off...but someone has to give.

Either stay and not be married and complain about it all the time.

Or leave.


----------



## NaturalHeart

kitty_9474 said:


> Kirkspock - I appreciate your advice and I totally understand where you're coming from but I shouldn't have to walk on egg shells nor rehearse how I'm going to talk to him about things. It's going on four years! He knows my method of communication and the point I'm getting at, period.
> 
> Yesterday we were watching the movie He's Just Not That Into You. Not sure if any of you have seen it but seems to be perfect timing. Part of the story was a couple who had been together for 7 years and he wouldn't propose as he didn't believe in marriage. She decided that she couldn't do it anymore and left. Anyway, they wound up getting back together as she realized how much she missed him and he treated her better than some "husbands" she knew. Anyway, he wound up proposing to her. It was really sweet. I'm hoping that it implanted a seed in his head. haha!
> 
> Anyway, during the movie I said "that's going to be us huh?" He said no. I said we're getting married someday right? Or else (just joking with him) and he said yes. Not sure if it was just to shut me up or not but..
> 
> Now I have to tell you forumers something. I found out that he cheated on me a year ago and I decided to forgive him (I understand that it was a mistake). This is where I get the feeling of he has lost respect because of course I've given him reason to. Not sure if that means he'll never propose because he doesn't feel the need to as he thinks I'll never leave (which is wrong).
> 
> I'm still thinking of what I want to do. With everything that happened yesterday, his numerous amounts of anger childish outbursts and all of his baggage I don't know if I want to deal with that for the rest of my life.
> 
> Like I said and lots of you have said. I don't need him. He should be looking at me as the prize and not vice versa. I really need to take him off of this pedestal that I have him on. It's just that when he's good he's really good but the moments aren't always good.
> 
> He's a very conceited man. Thinks he can have any woman he wants or likes attention from woman. There are TONS of them at work who are after him. He holds a high position there and is very handsome and charming. I think sometimes that gets him off. Again, he is an ego maniac. Very narcissistic. I don't think I want that for the rest of my life. I'm 37 and not getting any younger you know?


 
So he cheated a year ago... and he thinks he can have any woman he wants.... and there are tons of them at work..... this is what stood out to me in your last post. You will be surprised at the number of men who are actually insecure when they give off that "I can have any woman" attitude. If he cheated a year ago, you have to be mindful (not worried just not blind) that he can do this again. Having you home to come to, playing the wife and step mom role could be a security blanket. When you say Narcissistic, OMG I went through that with an ex and the manipulation just cant be described. Just be careful because when certain men feel like they can have any woman he wants, it is some type of fantacy of holding off just in case the grass is greener or just that excuse not to get married because in his mind, marriage means he can't do what he is doing when he gets married (hope that isnt confusing).. 

It is amazing that you say his first marriage ended because the wife cheated on him but he turns around and get caught by you doing the same thing the wife did to him. GOD forbid it be done to him... but he got caught doing the same thing.


----------



## A Bit Much

Guys like him aren't husband material. Not in the least.


----------



## NaturalHeart

kitty_9474 said:


> A Bit Much, exactly. He has hung up numerous times when he doesn't hear what he wants to hear or is not getting his way.
> 
> If I ever try to put him in his place or show him somewhere he is making a wrong decision this is how he acts.
> 
> I in the past have tried back to try to explain but as of late I don't even bother. I just texted him "grow up, thanks for the laugh" because at this point that's all I can do is laugh. What adult man acts like that? *I've spoiled him and have let him get away with murder and I'm done. *I'm not kidding. As of right now, I'm done. He can kiss my ass.
> 
> Sorry for cussing. But seriosuly, who does he think he is? Can we say narcissist?


Yes, you have spoiled him and reading where you feel invested because his sister loves you, you're close to his girls and you and the ex are friends.... that is your emotional attachment and it should'nt be the reason you stay. I'm not saying leave. I'm saying this shouldnt be the reason you stay.


----------



## Prodigal

kitty_9474 said:


> Prodigal, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that I came to this forum HAVING to know exactly what I was doing INSTANTLY.
> 
> Please forgive me for being vulnerable and confused and thank you for the harshness.


My suggestion would be that you use the "block" mechanism in order not to see my posts. But here's something you can chew on: your opinion of me is none of my business. Complain away, and best of luck with Mr. Wonderful!


----------



## Prodigal

that_girl said:


> Either stay and not be married and complain about it all the time.
> 
> Or leave.


Amen to that, sistah!:iagree:


----------



## NaturalHeart

One more thing.... when you see yourself as doing everything he loves and everything he wants, and he says you're marriage material.... it is a wonderful thing that can be quickly taken for granted where he may start feeling like you're suppose to be doing this.... that saying is true about men being hunters. They can become easily bored with the submissive girlfriend/wife. When their is no challenge or accountability held for his reactions, actions and behavior this can be the result. You have to look at where you're benefitting from this relationship. But I have to be honest and say if I was pregnant with his child, I'd be in a very vunerable state and probably not pick this moment to test the future of the relationship...


----------



## NaturalHeart

Prodigal said:


> You originally came on here asking if this man would ever marry you, and how you might get him to change his mind and commit to marriage.
> 
> After all the perspectives/advice you've been given, you still don't know what you want to do with this albatross.
> 
> So I'm going to give it to you straight: you want him to marry you. You are terrified to leave him. *You are willing to put up with his crap, because you are afraid of the unknown.*
> 
> One thing I've learned from being on boards for many years is this: it don't mean diddly-squat what any of us say; you are going to do precisely what you intend to do.
> 
> And I'd bet the farm that you will stay with this guy while he sits around till doomsday deciding whether or not he wants to marry you. And you will vent about his rotten characteristics.
> 
> That works fine for me; no skin off my nose. People have answered your question as to whether you should move on. After this many pages, you still don't know what you want to do.
> 
> I'm fine with that. I wish you the very best that life has to offer.


 
*Yes, being pregnant with a child will make you toughen your skin and try to stick it out. This is what this forum is all about. Encouraging and being honest without pushing people away simply because they reply with a response you dont like when they are very emotional at the time.*


----------



## A Bit Much

It's too much.

He cheated on top of everything else? Yuck. I certainly wouldn't have been trying to get pregnant after that, and would have made doubly sure to prevent it. Not being married to him would have been a bonus really. I could walk away free and clear.

IDK what or how you plan to handle this pickle now, but I wouldn't hold my breath when it comes to this guy asking. I have an idea... why don't YOU ask and see where that takes you?


----------



## Prodigal

shaylady said:


> *Yes, being pregnant with a child will make you toughen your skin and try to stick it out. This is what this forum is all about. Encouraging and being honest without pushing people away simply because they reply with a response you dont like when they are very emotional at the time.*


My dear lady, please, by all means, employ the "block" feature available to you. I made no mention of not liking anyone's response. I've read 7 pages of a woman complaining about what a horrible man she lives with, while wanting to find a way to convince him to marry her. I do not have the power to "push people away." I was blunt, as was that_girl. 

Just block my posts. Problem solved!


----------



## NaturalHeart

May I ask if you and the ex ever talked about why the ex cheated on him? 

I dont condone cheating but I was wondering if she had already checked out of the marriage because of how he is. If anything the ex says makes sense to you now, then you know full and clear what you're dealin with.


----------



## kitty_9474

shaylady - She never said why she cheated but she did admit to me that she cheated on him. She told me that he did not cheat on her and that she hated his ego and that he had a cocaine problem and money spending problem.

That was the gist of it. Sometimes I feel like asking her for more details.


----------



## NaturalHeart

kitty_9474 said:


> shaylady - She never said why she cheated but she did admit to me that she cheated on him. She told me that he did not cheat on her and that she hated his ego and that he had a cocaine problem and money spending problem.
> 
> That was the gist of it. Sometimes I feel like asking her for more details.


Do you think that he is recovered from his cocaine problem? You said he is living with you... does he pay most of the bills or do you two pay half and half or does he pay most? The person I dated that I now know is a true Narcissist was so manipulative and neglectful to the point of almost trying to push you to get close to another person - - seeking any type of feeling of sanity.
In reality a person should just leave the relationship when it gets that bad. So that is why I asked if she gave you a reason why she cheated on him. Some people casually use the term Narcissist when describing a selfish mate but I know i dated one and it was HELL.


----------



## A Bit Much

> he had a cocaine problem and money spending problem


This gets better and better.

Kitty, what are his redeeming qualities? When you met him you were what, 33? What was it about him that made you decide he was worth all this work?


----------



## kitty_9474

shaylady - he pays for half, most of the time. He does come around financially. How he does it? I don't know but he does. As far as recovering he has done it on occasion and the last two weeks I've noticed more. I was really upset with him over the weekend because he said that now that we have a baby on the way he is going to stop smoking, etc. He was wanting cocaine all night and when got a hold of it wanted more and didn't care what I said. Said he was going to do what he wanted. He was really drunk.

A Bit Much - When I met him he was the most charming and loving man. Truly swept me off of my feet. I had never experienced anything like it before. Very smart and when he loves me he really LOVES me. Became my best friend. I fell in love with his daughters and family. He has an amazing job in where he is held in very high regard and again everyone loves him. He's very witty, funny, intelligent, etc. I saw how he is with his children, loves them till no end. Just showed all of this amazingness and I was completely smitten like I've never been in my life.

Again, this is why I say maybe narcissist because aren't they like what I described at first? 

I guess maybe I'm in love with his POTENTIAL? Again, I see how he is AT TIMES and I'm thinking "what if?" If he could be like this all of the time? That' why it's hard for me. Again, in love with his potential?


----------



## that_girl

Yea....not marriage material. Oye.

Potential is NOTHING. Reality is everything.


----------



## A Bit Much

> A Bit Much - When I met him he was the most charming and loving man. Truly swept me off of my feet. I had never experienced anything like it before. Very smart and when he loves me he really LOVES me. Became my best friend. I fell in love with his daughters and family. He has an amazing job in where he is held in very high regard and again everyone loves him. He's very witty, funny, intelligent, etc. I saw how he is with his children, loves them till no end. Just showed all of this amazingness and I was completely smitten like I've never been in my life.
> 
> Again, this is why I say maybe narcissist because aren't they like what I described at first?
> 
> I guess maybe I'm in love with his POTENTIAL?


Everyone is the best thing since sliced bread at first. Then they start showing you who they really are... somewhere around the 4th or 5th month. From the way you describe it, you probably DID see some red flags, but ignored them, because by the time he started to show you who he really was, you were to ensconced in his kids and family's lives. You probably moved in together quickly too. Would this be accurate?

You don't fall in love with POTENTIAL. Big mistake. People are who they are fundamentally. You have to take the sum of what you know about them, their past included and realize that they've been shaped by that. Maybe he IS a nice guy with others... but truly he's not nice to you and he doesn't have a reason for it. If you're all you say you are, he should be at your feet with love, affection and appreciation. Instead, he disrespects you, talks to you like you're a child (makes demands on you) and overall is a jerk.

He used to be nice. He used to respect you... or he pretended to. He's living in YOUR house... how old is he?? Has a divorce, a previous cocaine habit and money problems under his belt. He's egotistical and immature. All about ME ME ME.

So the question is.... what are you really doing? You're 37 years old. You're intelligent and seem to have your sh*t together financially. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?


----------



## NaturalHeart

A Bit Much said:


> This gets better and better.
> 
> Kitty, what are his redeeming qualities? When you met him you were what, 33? What was it about him that made you decide he was worth all this work?


 
Yes, He has two big HUGE neon sign flashing RED FLAGS.... the cocaine usage and the cheating. :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


----------



## CandieGirl

kitty_9474 said:


> Kirkspock - I appreciate your advice and I totally understand where you're coming from but I shouldn't have to walk on egg shells nor rehearse how I'm going to talk to him about things. It's going on four years! He knows my method of communication and the point I'm getting at, period.
> 
> Yesterday we were watching the movie He's Just Not That Into You. Not sure if any of you have seen it but seems to be perfect timing. Part of the story was a couple who had been together for 7 years and he wouldn't propose as he didn't believe in marriage. She decided that she couldn't do it anymore and left. Anyway, they wound up getting back together as she realized how much she missed him and he treated her better than some "husbands" she knew. Anyway, he wound up proposing to her. It was really sweet. I'm hoping that it implanted a seed in his head. haha!
> 
> Anyway, during the movie I said "that's going to be us huh?" He said no. I said we're getting married someday right? Or else (just joking with him) and he said yes. Not sure if it was just to shut me up or not but..
> 
> Now I have to tell you forumers something. I found out that he cheated on me a year ago and I decided to forgive him (I understand that it was a mistake). This is where I get the feeling of he has lost respect because of course I've given him reason to. Not sure if that means he'll never propose because he doesn't feel the need to as he thinks I'll never leave (which is wrong).
> 
> I'm still thinking of what I want to do. With everything that happened yesterday, his numerous amounts of anger childish outbursts and all of his baggage I don't know if I want to deal with that for the rest of my life.
> 
> Like I said and lots of you have said. I don't need him. He should be looking at me as the prize and not vice versa. I really need to take him off of this pedestal that I have him on. It's just that when he's good he's really good but the moments aren't always good.
> 
> He's a very conceited man. Thinks he can have any woman he wants or likes attention from woman. There are TONS of them at work who are after him. He holds a high position there and is very handsome and charming. I think sometimes that gets him off. Again, he is an ego maniac. Very narcissistic. I don't think I want that for the rest of my life. I'm 37 and not getting any younger you know?


I don't see much worth holding onto here, Kitty. _And_ he cheated...you're right, you're not getting any younger, and you deserve way more than the crumbs he's throwing your way. Good luck!


----------



## kitty_9474

Yes A Bit Much you nailed it on the head. He moved in with me right away. Two months into our relationship. 

So does he scream narcissist?

Also, why do you think he doesn't respect me? Does he not love me? Then why with me? Unless he's using me...that could be it! But then again, he totally wants this child with me. It's so weird.

So are you thinking he'll never change? I keep thinking I'm so good that he will or eventually will.

I don't have shades on. I'm totally aware of what is going on. Just trying to make the best decision for my life.

I need to figure this out and pronto.


----------



## A Bit Much

shaylady said:


> Yes, He has two big HUGE neon sign flashing RED FLAGS.... the cocaine usage and the cheating. :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


Thanks for reminding me shaylady.

Kittyl I forgot to throw the nugget of HIM CHEATING ON YOU.

I'll ask again.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING???


----------



## CandieGirl

A Bit Much said:


> *So the question is.... what are you really doing? You're 37 years old. You're intelligent and seem to have your sh*t together financially. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?*


She's still weighing things; I have a friend like this, and no matter what her BF (livinng together 5+ years) does, there's always an excuse and she stays because she's getting older and is worried that this is her last chance to be with a man....There's alcohol and drug abuse, physical violence and more...

At least Kitty is seeking help and guidance here, more than I can say for my buddy!


----------



## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> Yes A Bit Much you nailed it on the head. He moved in with me right away. Two months into our relationship.
> 
> So does he scream narcissist?
> 
> Also, why do you think he doesn't respect me? Does he not love me? Then why with me? Unless he's using me...that could be it! But then again, he totally wants this child with me. It's so weird.
> 
> So are you thinking he'll never change? I keep thinking I'm so good that he will or eventually will.
> 
> I don't have shades on. I'm totally aware of what is going on. Just trying to make the best decision for my life.
> 
> I need to figure this out and pronto.



He totally wants a child with you? OMG. I don't see why you'd believe anything he says to you at this point. I'd chock up every word out of his mouth as a desperate attempt to hold onto his living arrangements.

I'll tell you something else. People with substance abuse problems are VERY GOOD LIARS. They have to be. They tell you what you want to hear, to get what they want. And again... he cheated on you. HE CHEATED ON YOU. As good as you are, he still stepped out of your committment and was with another woman. 

You have to see this for what it is. Who respects a doormat? Nobody I know. You take his sh*t by the spoonful and even smile while you swallow it down.


----------



## kitty_9474

Well guys, it was once and I want to give the benefit of the doubt that it was a mistake and wouldn't happen again. I guess I'm so naive. It's so hard to believe that this man wants a child with me yet would cheat, etc.

We do everything together. Are together everyday. He calls me 20 times a day when he's not with me, etc. It's just hard for me to pinpoint.

He doens't HAVE to live with me. He can get his own place ya know? Would a person really act that into me just to live with me? AAAAHHHH..this situation is so crappy!

I'm sorry I'm so naive..just very vulnerable. I would probably walk easier if not in the delicate situation I'm in.

I'm here for support and whether you guys and gals believe it or not I'm getting stronger, trust me.


----------



## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> Well guys, it was once and I want to give the benefit of the doubt that it was a mistake and wouldn't happen again. I guess I'm so naive. It's so hard to believe that this man wants a child with me yet would cheat, etc.
> 
> I'm sorry I'm so naive..just very vulnerable. I would probably walk easier if not in the delicate situation I'm in.


Well, the baby is coming now. I'm not very confident at all about what kind of a man he'll be during and after the fact. He just hung up on you the other day for goodness sake. 

Who's idea was it to get pregnant? I'm curious.


----------



## kitty_9474

The pregnancy is a total accident as I'm on birth control. We had a drunken stupor night in where he didn't wear a condom. I never would have thought. Especially at my age. I know the odds of being able to get pregnant are lower.

So this is not expected and honestly I'm not very thrilled. If I were happier and in a more stable place with him then perhaps but what am I supposed to feel, right?

I keep thinking that he'll MAYBE change with the baby. According to him and his ex he was always home as a great dad, etc. He just had those other issues.

I know this is going to sound bizarre but do babies put someone in their place? Want to be a better person?

I know when my daughter was born I turned into a completely different person.


----------



## A Bit Much

CandieGirl said:


> She's still weighing things; I have a friend like this, and no matter what her BF (livinng together 5+ years) does, there's always an excuse and she stays because she's getting older and is worried that this is her last chance to be with a man....There's alcohol and drug abuse, physical violence and more...
> 
> *At least Kitty is seeking help and guidance here*, more than I can say for my buddy!


True.

Some women are so desperate to fulfill that need to nest they'll take any old thing to do it with. I just wish more of us could take the emotion out of it to really look at who they choose. It would save us so much heartache and drama.


----------



## CandieGirl

kitty_9474 said:


> Well guys, it was once and I want to give the benefit of the doubt that it was a mistake and wouldn't happen again. I guess I'm so naive. It's so hard to believe that this man wants a child with me yet would cheat, etc.
> 
> We do everything together. Are together everyday. He calls me 20 times a day when he's not with me, etc. It's just hard for me to pinpoint.
> 
> He doens't HAVE to live with me. He can get his own place ya know? Would a person really act that into me just to live with me? AAAAHHHH..this situation is so crappy!
> 
> I'm sorry I'm so naive..just very vulnerable. I would probably walk easier if not in the delicate situation I'm in.
> 
> I'm here for support and whether you guys and gals believe it or not I'm getting stronger, trust me.


Stop that...we all want to believe that our mates would never do those horrible things to us. But just keep in mind, that he's showing you exactly who he is, no matter what he says about wanting to be with you, potentially marry you, and have this child with you.

Drug use should be the dealbreaker, if the cheating is not. There is usually only one way to go, and that's down, if a drug user does not quit and get professional help.


----------



## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> The pregnancy is a total accident as I'm on birth control. We had a drunken stupor night in where he didn't wear a condom. I never would have thought. Especially at my age. I know the odds of being able to get pregnant are lower.
> 
> So this is not expected and honestly I'm not very thrilled. If I were happier and in a more stable place with him then perhaps but what am I supposed to feel, right?
> 
> I keep thinking that he'll MAYBE change with the baby. According to him and his ex he was always home as a great dad, etc. He just had those other issues.
> 
> I know this is going to sound bizarre but do babies put someone in their place? Want to be a better person?
> 
> I know when my daughter was born I turned into a completely different person.


You think he'll change with the baby? Well let's look at it this way. Right now you're pregnant with said baby. How's he treating you? Does it take the baby to physically be in his presence or something? The baby is there. He's been through the process before... TWICE. Guess maybe you should compare how he treated his ex with how he treats you... but one big, and very big difference is there. She was his WIFE. Not his GF. 

And you can't compare how you felt when your child was born to him. Men and women are different when it comes to child rearing. Most women are instinctually in tune with their children at birth, and do change. In no way am I saying that men don't love their children or that they can't change their ways, but women are born to nurture. A man can get up and walk away from his family without a second thought. A woman/mother? Not so much. It happens but it's always a shock because it's that uncommon.


----------



## that_girl

A Bit Much said:


> He totally wants a child with you? OMG. I don't see why you'd believe anything he says to you at this point. I'd chock up every word out of his mouth as a desperate attempt to hold onto his living arrangements.
> 
> I'll tell you something else. People with substance abuse problems are VERY GOOD LIARS. They have to be. They tell you what you want to hear, to get what they want. And again... he cheated on you. HE CHEATED ON YOU. As good as you are, he still stepped out of your committment and was with another woman.
> 
> You have to see this for what it is. Who respects a doormat? Nobody I know. You take his sh*t by the spoonful and even smile while you swallow it down.


Yea, looks to me like this bum mooched on to a productive woman who was maybe a bit desperate (no offense! I just mean maybe there was that vibe) and now he's got the cush life.

Man. My advice--- RUN.


----------



## that_girl

He won't change. Please don't think he will.


----------



## A Bit Much

that_girl said:


> Yea, looks to me like this bum mooched on to a productive woman who was maybe a bit desperate (no offense! I just mean maybe there was that vibe) and now he's got the cush life.
> 
> Man. My advice--- RUN.


You know a man 60 days, and move him into your house with your child, find out he's been divorced, had a cocaine habit, and financial problems (drugs probably had a lot to do with that), then 2 years later he cheats on you. Now you're pregnant, and he got pissed at you the other day because you asked him about marriage.

I'd say, yes. There's a bit of desperation going on here.


----------



## that_girl

A Bit Much said:


> You know a man 60 days, and move him into your house with your child, find out he's been divorced, had a cocaine habit, and financial problems (drugs probably had a lot to do with that), then 2 years later he cheats on you. Now you're pregnant, and he got pissed at you the other day because you asked him about marriage.
> 
> I'd say, yes. There's a bit of desperation going on here.


And to move a man into your home so quickly when you have your own young child.   Risky, imo.


----------



## CandieGirl

When expecting my 3rd child (at the age of 34) my BF of the time had a drug problem. I stopped seeing him because of it (we were not living together, thankfully) and gave him 3 months to decide what he wanted. Me (and my 2 kids and our unborn son) or the party life. He chose the party life, and within one month, he was with another woman and had forgotten all about the undying love he'd pledged to me...I was devastated (I had loved him!), but I moved on and managed, and made a life for myself. Give him a chance to make the right choice. Tell him to take a few months to decide. If he walks away, and he probably will, so be it.


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## A Bit Much

I'd like to know when the coke habit and financial problem info came out. I assume the divorce was known prior to the move in.. which you can take or leave. People get divorced. It happens, I'm in that camp myself. 

I even met my husband and got married in a short time. BUT. There was some heavy disclosure going on prior to me making any of those decisions. I wanted to know who and what I was truly dealing with first and then I could make an informed decision. Accept him or not. 

Cocaine habit - a NO for me. There's just too much strung to that to even tie myself into. Financial problems? Ok, what kind? 

The ultimate bomb if after I accepted this other stuff would have been the cheating. NOPE. Can't do it. Too much baggage already, and now I'm supposed to just forgive and forget? This is a transgression directly against me. ME, the one who has been nothing but gracious and loving... not perfect by any means, but the one that's been in you corner despite your mess.


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## kitty_9474

The drug problem I did not know about until two years ago and the finances just recently and then his ex wife confirmed.

My child is not so much a child. She is now 18 and was 15 when he moved in. I know what you're saying though.

He was married and treated his ex much better than me. He was sort of obsessed with her. Had a clearning service for her, she lived an amazing life. Didnt' have to work, etc. so he was very different for her. She still gets away with murder from him. Always gets away with whatever she wants financially, etc. Why is she so special? I'm so much better TO him and FOR him.

Do I need to turn into a ***** for him to treat me nicely? Because that's what she was to him and he treated her like a goddess. I know they had there moments but he gave her a "life" a ring, etc.

But then again, he was still bad with money. Always writing bounced checks for rent, etc.

He did all of that though WHEN she got pregnant. He wouldn't have married her otherwise. He wanted a solid family life but she broke that up by cheating on him.

So I'm coming across as desperate or someone who just loves unconditionally and wants to see the best in someone and believe that change is always possible? I hope he doesn't see me as desperate as I'm feeling worse right now. My self esteem is shot enough. Ya know?

Or is this just a man that loves me but has "demons" that he can't let go of? Work out?


----------



## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> The drug problem I did not know about until two years ago and the finances just recently and then his ex wife confirmed.
> 
> My child is not so much a child. She is now 18 and was 15 when he moved in. I know what you're saying though.
> 
> He was married and treated his ex much better than me. He was sort of obsessed with her. Had a clearning service for her, she lived an amazing life. Didnt' have to work, etc. so he was very different for her. She still gets away with murder from him. Always gets away with whatever she wants financially, etc. Why is she so special? I'm so much better TO him and FOR him.
> 
> Do I need to turn into a ***** for him to treat me nicely? Because that's what she was to him and he treated her like a goddess. I know they had there moments but he gave her a "life" a ring, etc.
> 
> But then again, he was still bad with money. Always writing bounced checks for rent, etc.
> 
> He did all of that though WHEN she got pregnant. He wouldn't have married her otherwise. He wanted a solid family life but she broke that up by cheating on him.
> 
> So I'm coming across as desperate or someone who just loves unconditionally and wants to see the best in someone and believe that change is always possible? I hope he doesn't see me as desperate as I'm feeling worse right now. My self esteem is shot enough. Ya know?
> 
> Or is this just a man that loves me but has "demons" that he can't let go of? Work out?


Are you trying to compete with his ex or something? It sure sounds like it.

My 19 year old son's father's GF is doing it. Almost following my footsteps to the letter. She's having a baby (she's also your age) and prior to that did the move in quickly thing etc. And he's still the jerk he was when I was married to him. He ditched her for her birthday last year, and also left her at one of her friends weddings out of the blue. He tried to break a lease on the place they shared to move in with his mom. She threatened to sue him, but then turned around and moved in his moms house with him. I only know about it because she texts all her drama to our son who still lives at home. They've been together about 4 years now too. She got pregnant in Feb. and now suddenly they're getting married next month.

You aren't his wife. And if there are NO CONDITIONS to your relationship, you're in for a world of hurt with him. All relationships except between child and parent have conditions.

If you accept ANYTHING and EVERYTHING he dishes out, then I guess there's nothing left to say.


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## kitty_9474

No, not competing at all. As far as her as a person goes, there is no competition. Just hard to understand why she got the life that I should be having. You know what I mean? Just don't understand.

I need to get strong and move on. Make a decision with this pregnancy. I'll get it figured out. He's gone all weekend with his girls to his families and I'll have lots of time to myself to clear my head and think.

It's not going to be easy. Me telling him I don't want to be in this anymore and him saying ok fine and walking away. It hurts to think that after all I've done and invested and given that it would be that easy. 

Then he'll probably be off to the next girl and married, etc. It happens all of the time.

Makes me sort of nauseous. This isn't easy. I know you all know this.

I'm getting there though and couldn't do it without this forum.


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## lamaga

Kitty, it seems like you are really trying to romanticize a horrible situation. This has nothing to do with unconditional love, this has to do with having enough self-respect to realize that you made a big mistake and don't need to keep making it.

I wish you well.


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## A Bit Much

> No, not competing at all. As far as her as a person goes, there is no competition. Just hard to understand why she got the life that I should be having. You know what I mean? Just don't understand


She didn't take his crap. She didn't bend over backwards for him. She saw him for who he was, and treated him accordingly. He's a taker. She probably at one time was just like you and after time, she had enough.

First time I saw my ex break down and show me any true raw emotion and feeling was the night he found out I was having an affair. It was stupid on my part, I'm not proud of the way I handled things with him, I should have packed up the kids and left, but I didn't.

You think it changed anything? After about 2 weeks, he went right back to being the person he was. He had cheated on me too... when I was pregnant even. I let that go. I couldn't understand how after all I had given he would treat me like he did. Well, I got over it. Real quick. We seperated about 8 months after that teary night and were divorced by the next summer.


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## CandieGirl

kitty_9474 said:


> No, not competing at all. As far as her as a person goes, there is no competition. Just hard to understand why she got the life that I should be having. You know what I mean? Just don't understand.
> 
> I need to get strong and move on. Make a decision with this pregnancy. I'll get it figured out. He's gone all weekend with his girls to his families and I'll have lots of time to myself to clear my head and think.
> 
> It's not going to be easy. *Me telling him I don't want to be in this anymore and him saying ok fine and walking away.* It hurts to think that after all I've done and invested and given that it would be that easy.
> 
> Then he'll probably be off to the next girl and married, etc. It happens all of the time.
> 
> Makes me sort of nauseous. This isn't easy. I know you all know this.
> 
> I'm getting there though and couldn't do it without this forum.


This is it right here (bold)...come on. You know it's no reason to stay.


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## kitty_9474

So if I changed and didn't take any of his crap he would change? Be better?

See what I mean? Guess I need to be a *****, lol.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Kitty, you need to start planning on what steps you need to take on getting out. He is not what you call marriage material. I would of left after he cheated. The day I found out.

I was in a similar situation, but my ex has diagnosed untreated bipolar disorder. He self medicates using illegal drugs and alcohol. I brought a child into the world from him, but I left the second I had solid proof he cheated. I took this as a major life lesson and raised my standards in the type of man I was going to spend the rest of my life with. 

My number one on my list is treating me with respect. Number two was I needed a stable man that held a stable job. It didn't matter how much he made, but enough for us(me working included). I got more then I asked for. I was introduced to a wonderful man who puts my needs before his own since the day we met. I can not tell you how much better my life has been. I'm no longer miserable and I can fully trust my husband 100%. We married a few years after my divorce. My husband was pretty clear on what type of woman he wanted too. It was instant chemistry. He raised my daughter with the up most respect. We had 2 more children.

I wish you the best of luck! I can't picture myself living like that again.


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## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> So if I changed and didn't take any of his crap he would change? Be better?
> 
> See what I mean? Guess I need to be a *****, lol.


You've already shown him your hand. He wouldn't believe the 'new' you for one minute.

Holding onto him to keep him from someone else is a ridiculous reason to do so. You seriously need to take inventory of this entire relationship from beginning to end. What are you really holding so tightly to? How do YOU benefit from it? Is it consistent?

I have another question.. what does your daughter think of him? I'm sure over these past 4 years she has an opinion as well... seeing him in action.


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## kitty_9474

A Bit Much. If I did show him though once and for all. It has to happen at some point, right?

I don't know what I'm holding onto. Fear of being alone maybe because of my age. Not having a "friend" to hang with, etc. Not having those good moments with him that I love so much. Totally irrational, I know.

My daughter loves him but doesn't like him sometimes. She's old enough to see his mood swings and I've been very honest with her about things as she's 18. She has told me at times that she feels I deserve better. She loves the same things I love about him. His sense of humor. How he is there for us when we need him financially, car issues, to vent to, etc.

If I were to leave him I'm sure she'd miss him a bit but would be fine with me making a move.


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## that_girl

IMO, that is even riskier to move a man which you barely know, into the home, when you have a 15 year old daughter. I'm glad that didn't take a bad turn.


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## lamaga

Kitty, I'm going to suggest that you print out all these responses, turn off the computer, and go somewhere. To a park, to a coffeeshop, somewhere neutral. Get yourself centered, and then read through as if you were reading about a stranger.

You know what you need to do, but you keep resisting. So you need to figure out where that resistance is from. Hint: It's got nothing to do with the man.

Again, I wish you well.


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## NaturalHeart

kitty_9474 said:


> shaylady - he pays for half, most of the time. He does come around financially. How he does it? I don't know but he does. As far as recovering he has done it on occasion and the last two weeks I've noticed more. I was really upset with him over the weekend because he said that now that we have a baby on the way he is going to stop smoking, etc. He was wanting cocaine all night and when got a hold of it wanted more and didn't care what I said. Said he was going to do what he wanted. He was really drunk.
> 
> A Bit Much - When I met him he was the most charming and loving man. Truly swept me off of my feet. I had never experienced anything like it before. Very smart and when he loves me he really LOVES me. Became my best friend. I fell in love with his daughters and family. He has an amazing job in where he is held in very high regard and again everyone loves him. He's very witty, funny, intelligent, etc. I saw how he is with his children, loves them till no end. Just showed all of this amazingness and I was completely smitten like I've never been in my life.
> 
> Again, this is why I say maybe narcissist because aren't they like what I described at first?
> 
> I guess maybe I'm in love with his POTENTIAL? Again, I see how he is AT TIMES and I'm thinking "what if?" If he could be like this all of the time? That' why it's hard for me. Again, in love with his potential?


Honey, no no no no no no no, I'm sorry. I am too paranoid for the health of my child to get pregnant by a man with a drup habit. I've never read any medical info on if this could harm an unborn child but I wish you would have thought about brining a child into this world with all this going on.... This is not good at all. Something is really wrong here.


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## kitty_9474

Thanks guys. He doesn't have a drug habbit. Once in a blue moon. I'm not sticking up for him, believe me. Just clarifying that.

I'm going to print these messages out as suggested and clear my head and think think think. It's a must.

I feel like I'm in la la land right now...so sad.


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## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> A Bit Much. If I did show him though once and for all. It has to happen at some point, right?
> 
> I don't know what I'm holding onto. Fear of being alone maybe because of my age. Not having a "friend" to hang with, etc. Not having those good moments with him that I love so much. Totally irrational, I know.
> 
> My daughter loves him but doesn't like him sometimes. She's old enough to see his mood swings and I've been very honest with her about things as she's 18. She has told me at times that she feels I deserve better. She loves the same things I love about him. His sense of humor. How he is there for us when we need him financially, car issues, to vent to, etc.
> 
> If I were to leave him I'm sure she'd miss him a bit but would be fine with me making a move.


This is what I'm trying to tell you. The only way he would take you seriously at this point in your relationship is if you left him. I'm not saying that to just tell you what to do, but I have enough experience with this type of man to know... they don't learn with you there. He takes far too much for granted in you to learn anything. You taught him that you'll take it and take it and continue to take it. Short of throwing him in the street, he's going to keep up the status quo.

Do the inventory. Please. From year one until now. Print this thread out and with your list go over it with a fine tooth comb. Think about what your daughter has said... YOU CAN DO BETTER. From the mouths of babes comes the truth. She sees it because she's not emotionally invested in him like you are. She can take him or leave him.

You have friends. You have family. I'm sure there is a very good support system around you to get you through this. Remember the reasons why you came here in the first place... you're reaching out because somewhere inside you, you KNOW this isn't how it should be. If you want better, you have to make some changes. Take what you know and use it.


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## NaturalHeart

kitty_9474 said:


> The drug problem I did not know about until two years ago and the finances just recently and then his ex wife confirmed.
> 
> My child is not so much a child. She is now 18 and was 15 when he moved in. I know what you're saying though.
> 
> He was married and treated his ex much better than me. He was sort of obsessed with her. Had a clearning service for her, she lived an amazing life. Didnt' have to work, etc. so he was very different for her. She still gets away with murder from him. Always gets away with whatever she wants financially, etc. Why is she so special? I'm so much better TO him and FOR him.
> 
> Do I need to turn into a ***** for him to treat me nicely? Because that's what she was to him and he treated her like a goddess. I know they had there moments but he gave her a "life" a ring, etc.
> 
> But then again, he was still bad with money. Always writing bounced checks for rent, etc.
> 
> He did all of that though WHEN she got pregnant. He wouldn't have married her otherwise. He wanted a solid family life but she broke that up by cheating on him.
> 
> So I'm coming across as desperate or someone who just loves unconditionally and wants to see the best in someone and believe that change is always possible? I hope he doesn't see me as desperate as I'm feeling worse right now. My self esteem is shot enough. Ya know?
> 
> Or is this just a man that loves me but has "demons" that he can't let go of? Work out?


 
He treats the ex "so good" because she aint STUD-N him. That attitude of thinking he can get any woman he wants doesnt apply to her cause he probably knows the only thing he can do for her is give her what she needs financially. Usually the nice sweet significant other is the one that suffers due to him trying to make sure the ex gets what she needs. A man like him will probably never appreciate the submissive girlfriend because there is no drama in her. She is normal and dont require much. He wont have two women that close to him like that. I'm confident of that..


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## kitty_9474

shaylady - I'm not submissive and I've stood up to him. I think I'm the only girl that actually calls him out on what he does so I'm not quiet and shy nor afraid to stand up for myself. 

What do you mean by "He wont have two women that close to him like that. I'm confident of that.. "?

Sorry..having a no brainer moment..lol


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## lamaga

Kitty, you're having a no brainer week. Or else you are just getting off on all the attention.


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## kitty_9474

Not an attention seeker. An advice seeker is all.


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## NaturalHeart

kitty_9474 said:


> shaylady - I'm not submissive and I've stood up to him. I think I'm the only girl that actually calls him out on what he does so I'm not quiet and shy nor afraid to stand up for myself.
> 
> What do you mean by "He wont have two women that close to him like that. I'm confident of that.. "?
> 
> Sorry..having a no brainer moment..lol


 
I'm not saying you dont stand up to him. I'm very strong minded and take the wheel type but I'm submissive to my husband in terms of catering to him, making him comfortable, making sure I don't do things that will make him feel like he is not the man of the house.... I'm glad you stand up to him.. you should with what you're dealing with. That is how I meant submissive...

I was referring to the ex being so demanding and the fact that she does not take his crap... you say you stand up to him but you probably do things for him that she didnt do that he should appreciate. So me saying that he wont have two women that close around him means you as his girlfriend acting like or reminding him of the ex he has to deal with on a regular basis.


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## kitty_9474

Oh I hear you. Yes, she didn't do anything. Didn't work nor clean. He said the house was always a pig sty unless he cleaned and eventually had to hire a maid. She always said it was "too much". She is a user. She is engaged to man 25 years older than her now because she is using him and he's falling for every second of it. She's manipulative to the point of getting what she wants.

I'm total opposite. I'm OBSESSED with being clean, have a good job, etc. etc.


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## that_girl

If you leave and he's with someone else...then GOOD RIDDANCE! OMG! This is way too much drama. How can this man be a good mate and father? Elch. No. stop it.


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## A Bit Much

kitty_9474 said:


> Oh I hear you. Yes, she didn't do anything. Didn't work nor clean. He said the house was always a pig sty unless he cleaned and eventually had to hire a maid. She always said it was "too much". *She is a user.* She is engaged to man 25 years older than her now because she is using him and he's falling for every second of it. She's manipulative to the point of getting what she wants.
> 
> I'm total opposite. I'm OBSESSED with being clean, have a good job, etc. etc.


So is he. 2 takers rarely do work out for each other.


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## moxy

If you have to pressure him into marriage, it isn't something that he is freely committing to and you're likely to have problems later on. If not getting married is a deal-breaker for you, just break up with him. You can still have him in your life as the father of your child and you can still be involved with his children, but if he has no desire to marry you and you have a desire to be married, then your goals are not aligned. It's hurtful, yes, but it's better to find out now when you can do something about it than just just waste away with wishful thinking. Leave him and find someone who wants marriage.


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## NaturalHeart

kitty_9474 said:


> Oh I hear you. Yes, she didn't do anything. Didn't work nor clean. He said the house was always a pig sty unless he cleaned and eventually had to hire a maid. She always said it was "too much". She is a user. She is engaged to man 25 years older than her now because she is using him and he's falling for every second of it. She's manipulative to the point of getting what she wants.
> 
> I'm total opposite. I'm OBSESSED with being clean, have a good job, etc. etc.


He is a user and manipulator as well so they have something in common. He couldnt grab hold of her and control her and that is a challenge to him. The manipulator got manipulated by the ex and is still getting manipulated by her. You're doing all the right things that a wife should do but he gets upset because you bring up marriage..... He has unresloved issues ......


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## that_girl

Yea. Please stop trying to fit him into some idea that you have about the man you want. He doesn't fit. Sucks to discover, but it's true. 

See the reality, not the potential.


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## kitty_9474

shaylady, what types of unresolved issues you think? 

You all are so dead on though..I never looked at it like he couldn't control her, etc. and they are both manipulative and it wouldn't work that way. 

I love this board!!!!


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## moxy

kitty_9474 said:


> I keep thinking that he'll MAYBE change ...
> 
> I know when my daughter was born I turned into a completely different person.


I am sorry to be blunt, but it is foolish and wishful thinking to hope that he will just magically change into someone better when there is no evidence that he is interested in changing at all. His situation at the moment suits him just fine, why would he change it? You can't make him change. You can't inspire him to change. You can't encourage him to change. You want him to change, but he doesn't want to do so. He likes who he is and he's going to stay that way. You can choose to stay with him as he is now or walk away. Don't waste your energy on wishing for magical metamorphosis.

You changed when you had your daughter, but that does not mean that he will behave in the same way.

I am sorry if my bluntness if painful to you, but you need a little bit of a wake up call. You want something from him that he doesn't want to give you. Stop trying to get him to give it up to you. It's better for you to leave him and try to find someone who wants to give you a married partnership, someone who you don't have to change. 

I'm not saying this to be cruel, but, I think you need to stop deluding yourself. It will be better for you. Either remain in the relationship in which your needs are unmet and be miserable (something's keeping you attached) or walk away and seek a relationship in which your needs are being met.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Kitty:

Gotta say, it sounds like even though this guy is a total douche, YOU still want to be the 'winner' in this boyfriend derby! ALL the women where he works want him. HE has such a prestigious job. EVERYONE finds him so funny, charming, intelligent, blah, blah, blah.

Is your ego/self-worth/whatever SO SCREWED UP that you would be willing to put up with this jackass FOREVER...JUST TO PROVE to all the women he works with, and all the women who find him attractive, and all the people who think he's SO WONDERFUL...that YOU WON! Okay, once you get the ring and the 'I do's' out of the way, what have you won?

He's a CHEATER.
He's a LIAR.
He a COCAINE USER (once is too much).
He's a DRUNK (when you got pregnant, last weekend...when else?)
He has financial problems.

Do you REALLY think that ANYONE who knew your relationship intimately (the good, the bad, the ugly) would REALLY BE JEALOUS of the fact that you landed this man? Really? Not who he COULD BE, but WHO HE ACTUALLY IS...day in, day out, week after week, 4 years into it.

He's NOT gonna be there for your new baby. He's not there now for your own daughter (like he is for his 'other' kids). What the heck are you waiting for?

If you don't want to be a single mother AGAIN, then move on to abortion or adoption. 

If you don't want to be here wailing/wondering AGAIN in 4 more years, then MOVE ON from him.

Quit trying to justify the last 4 years. There were SOME good times, but not enough to override the OBVIOUS FLAWS in this man's character (cheater, liar, cocaine, disrespecful). You have found out he's no good, so pack up and move on. Don't beat yourself up, thank God you didn't marry him, and you don't HAVE to have his baby.

Quit trying to figure out what his problem is...Narcisism, ego, using you, etc. WHO CARES? WHAT DIFFERENCE can naming his actual problem make? It won't CHANGE anything. It won't make him less of a douche or you less of a doormat.

Move on, move on, move on. Make up your mind about the pregnancy, and MOVE ON.

BTW, to answer your original question "Will he ever marry me?" NOT if you're SMART or LUCKY!


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## A Bit Much

She'll leave when the payoff she gets from this relationship is no longer greater than the reasons to leave.

Right now the payoff is stronger than accepting and doing something about the reality of the situation.


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## kitty_9474

I'm hearing all of you! 

He just texted and said "you relax tonight. I'll cook and do laundry". See what I mean?

He can be a monster but so helpful and good 97% of the time. I am going to read and re read and read and read and read all of these responses over and over again. Especially when he's gone this weekend!


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

So the cooking and laundry....that's in lieu of being someone YOU can trust in who would never cheat on you again, that's in lieu of giving up cocaine permanently, that's in lieu of telling you the truth, being respectful to you, being financially solvent and responsible ALL THE TIME, having adult conversations with you about important matters, staying sober, etc.

WOW! You really ARE a 'cheap date.' He can 'buy' your loyalty for next-to-nothing.


----------



## A Bit Much

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> So the cooking and laundry....that's in lieu of being someone YOU can trust in who would never cheat on you again, that's in lieu of giving up cocaine permanently, that's in lieu of telling you the truth, being respectful to you, being financially solvent and responsible ALL THE TIME, having adult conversations with you about important matters, staying sober, etc.
> 
> WOW! You really ARE a 'cheap date.' He can 'buy' your loyalty for next-to-nothing.


LOL.

My ex would disappear and go partying to all hours of the morning, not answer his phone etc. On about the 3rd or 4th day of me not speaking to him over that, he'd show up with tulips. My favorite flower.

Then I could go a week like that and I may get a dinner out. 

Then I could go 2 or 3 weeks without speaking to him (by now you would think I'd figured out that my so called silent treatment really didn't work) and he might wash a load of clothes or a sink of dishes (I did all the housework and cooking).

I think the longest silent spell lasted about a month. He went on with whatever he was doing like I wasn't even there. No flowers, no nice gestures. He didn't care. He figured I would get over it at some point, and things would go right back to normal. That's the pattern I taught him to follow.

The point being... his behavior never changed. He still did the same crappy things to me; still disrepected me, still went out, still cheated. I had to stop it.

He got mad with my affair too... never mind all of his. How dare I do such a thing to him!!! Yeah, a real piece of work. He's still mad at me about it and we've been divorced 16 years.


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## that_girl

And I just don't get why people would want to have that type of life. 

Leave.


----------



## A Bit Much

that_girl said:


> And I just don't get why people would want to have that type of life.
> 
> Leave.


3.5 years of that was enough for me. I felt I deserved better. Guess what? I got better too.


----------



## Prodigal

moxy said:


> You want him to change, but he doesn't want to do so. He likes who he is and he's going to stay that way. You can choose to stay with him as he is now or walk away. Don't waste your energy on wishing for magical metamorphosis.
> 
> You want something from him that he doesn't want to give you. Stop trying to get him to give it up to you.


I said, essentially, the same thing about a zillion pages ago and was chastised for being so cruel, unhelpful, or whatever. Go figure. Carry on!


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## NaturalHeart

kitty_9474 said:


> shaylady, what types of unresolved issues you think?
> 
> You all are so dead on though..I never looked at it like he couldn't control her, etc. and they are both manipulative and it wouldn't work that way.
> 
> I love this board!!!!


Well when you say he breaks his neck to please the ex. She cheated on him, didnt do anything for him, and then cheated on him yet he still is trying to prove something. A person that likes to be in control to the point of having those narcissistic manipulative behaviors chase challenges (if that is the correct way to say it) or almost respect the person they cant control and tend to seek approval from them because he could not break the person. He met his match and his issues are unresolved so he will never date a woman that reminds him of the ex (the one he cant control). He will choose a woman he see can benefit him. Meeting you and moving in so soon with you was a benefit for him. Having someone cooking and cleaning and being wifey to his kids is a benefit for him. Cheating, getting caught and you letting him stay is a benefit for him. His issues are really unresolved in my opinion.


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## sculley

kitty_9474 said:


> Yes we have talked about it. He has before said that yes, marriage down the road but never definitive. He said that he'll do it when he's ready. I just brought it up again yesterday because I'm pregnant now and want to know where my future stands.
> 
> Should I talk to him again? I'm feeling pretty pathetic and beyond sad right now.
> 
> I've always let him walk all over me. He's gotten away with lots and I've forgiven. He doesn't respect me so when I give an ultimatum he won't believe it unless I really act on it.


To me it's a huge red flag, I agree with LAMAGA.
The comment that he will do it when "he's ready" makes me wonder, why is it about ONLY HIM? It should be about both of you especially since you guys decided to bring a child into the world. Did he had a sick thought that since you were a single mom that you were going to just continue to have babies and not settle down?
I wasn't in this position but my husband early on got away with a lot that I forgave and he didn't respect me either, it literally took me years later at my wits in with no other option but to stay with a family member to give him a wake up call. And luckily for me it worked but there were so many other things that were there.
Just the fact that he got angry with the question makes me wondering if there is something else that we aren't aware of...Did his ex pressure him into marriage? Is he stressed about the baby or anything? :scratchhead:
I hope you can get this figured out.


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## kitty_9474

Shaylady!! Wowsa! You are pointing out so much in a manner that I would never think of on my own!

This site really does rock!

Scully - He felt forced to marry her out of guilt when she got pregnant. He had a few miscarriages and abortions from previous relationships and wanted to do things the "right way".

He seems really excited about this baby. Has asked a gazillion times in the last week if I've made my first prenatal appt. Making sure I'm eating, etc. etc.

It's all super confusing.


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## lamaga

Sigh. It's really not confusing to anyone but you, K.


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## that_girl

sculley said:


> To me it's a huge red flag, I agree with LAMAGA.
> The comment that he will do it when "he's ready" makes me wonder, why is it about ONLY HIM? It should be about both of you especially since you guys decided to bring a child into the world. Did he had a sick thought that since you were a single mom that you were going to just continue to have babies and not settle down?
> I wasn't in this position but my husband early on got away with a lot that I forgave and he didn't respect me either, it literally took me years later at my wits in with no other option but to stay with a family member to give him a wake up call. And luckily for me it worked but there were so many other things that were there.
> Just the fact that he got angry with the question makes me wondering if there is something else that we aren't aware of...Did his ex pressure him into marriage? Is he stressed about the baby or anything? :scratchhead:
> I hope you can get this figured out.


I spent MANY YEARS of my life waiting for people to make MY decisions on THEIR timeline.

Screw that shet. I don't know what snapped in me in January 2007, but it was good. If I didn't like someone by date 3, that was it. Sorry, buhbye. No longer let any man (or woman) tell me that what I want in life is NOT AS IMPORTANT as what they want.

So he doesn't want to get married YET. His "yet" may be 20 years. You want to get married relatively soon. That won't happen and if it does, it won't be good because he DOES NOT WANT TO DO IT.

Just take your life back.


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## that_girl

kitty_9474 said:


> It's all super confusing.


No...it's not confusing...you're just still in the shroud. Which is fine. take care of you and the baby.


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## A Bit Much

> He seems really excited about this baby. Has asked a gazillion times in the last week if I've made my first prenatal appt. Making sure I'm eating, etc. etc.


Really excited about the baby.

Not so much about being your husband.

Sorry but I don't know why you don't have a HUGE problem with this.


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## LovesHerMan

Let him dictate everything to you on his terms. A few caring words from him, and you fall into the quick-sand of self-doubt. Why don't you think that you are worth being loved by a real man?


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## kitty_9474

lovesherman..I have NO clue as to why I'm so pathetic right now. Could it be that I've been abused into thinking I'm not worthy? Maybe because I'm confused and pregnant?

I really wish I knew right now! Trust me!


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## LovesHerMan

You don't believe that you can make it on your own. You don't believe that you will find a good man to love you. You know what, tell that chattering monkey in your head to go f*ck himself! You will no longer listen to him.

Make an exit plan. Find out what resources are available to you. See a lawyer about having him pay child support. Love yourself for a change. You are sufficient. Remember that.


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## A Bit Much

You should want more for your child kitty. That's my opinion on you being pregnant. This child should have a secure and healthy household, with both parents as a model for a loving and strong committment. Do you have that? You want to be married I'm sure BEFORE this child comes. He got angry with you bringing up marriage in the first place. He's also not the greatest catch and has questionable decision making skills.

I don't think you're confused. You just don't want to do anything about your situation. The payoff you get from it is still to great.


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## Mavash.

It doesn't matter WHY you're behaving pathetic what matters is what you DO about it. Your self worth follows ACTION. Trust me I wish there was another way but there isn't.


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## NaturalHeart

Anyone in love is always hoping for things to turn out for the best. No one looks for the worst when they are hoping for a major change or an epiphany after the baby is born or during her pregnancy. She is asking for advice and she has learned alot from viewing this forum but anyone five weeks pregnant, emotional and dealing with a narcissist is in a very deep, very vulnerable position. When you're dating what the man use to be and hoping he will return to that consistently and not ONLY when he is trying to win her for a second or manipulate her to get something he wants- - - it is just easier said than done..... 

Although I think she will be fine if he left the house and gave her and her child some space......


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

kitty_9474 said:


> lovesherman..I have NO clue as to why I'm so pathetic right now. Could it be that I've been abused into thinking I'm not worthy? Maybe because I'm confused and pregnant?
> 
> I really wish I knew right now! Trust me!


I think eventually you will have enough of him, then you'll get up and leave. I left my abusive husband after 2 years trying to make things better. Hoping he would see the light and change. Boy, was I ever wrong. He never changed, only got worse over time.

BTW, your not pathetic. Your a woman who wants everything to turn out better then what it currently is. No matter how hard you try, you can not change someone of whom they are.


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## kitty_9474

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby, you are very right. I'm getting there.

This pregnancy is a such a sobering experience. Not only because I’m not drinking, lol, but because the last few times we’ve been out and he’s drank without me I’m able to see what an idiot he acts like when drunk. I mean, he can be funny and all but last night I had a networking event (I do event planning for my company) that I brought him along to and they were offering free drinks and food. I was sort of embarrassed with him. Normally when we have hung out for the last few years I’ve been tipsy right along with him so it never bothered me or I was on the same page (sadly) and I’m telling you being sober and watching him put me in a turned off like state.

I’m getting there….


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