# Thought I'd almost made it



## maincourse99

One month short of two year anniversary of Dday. For the past couple of months I've been doing pickups and drop offs of D12 at Exw apartment. We had been meeting in the middle prior. Today, picking her up the OM drives up and parks. I get a full view, and the emotions... Anger, sadness, the whole thing flashing before me again. 

I held it together, put on a happy face for D12 and as soon as I could text Exw that I will not be going there for the foreseeable future. I guess 2 years isn't enough time, more healing to do. I hate this, by far the biggest trial of my life. TAM has been there for me all along, and lately I've tapered off coming on here thinking I was out of the woods. Apparently not.


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## LanieB

This is completely understandable. I know I will always be the same way if/when I see my STBXH's OW out somewhere. I met her at a 4-way stop a while back and went into a rage for the rest of the day. The OM or OW themselves are the ultimate triggers. Always will be. 

Sorry you're going through this.


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## lisab0105

What on earth made either one of the pos think it was a good idea for him to come when you would picking up your daughter????


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## maincourse99

Yes, the OW/OM are the ultimate triggers. I realize that now, most everything else, even living in the house where we raised our child doesn't trigger me, or places we went together... But just seeing him completely devastates me. I hate them both, I have to get to indifference. 

To lisab, he actually lives with my ex, so it was stupid of me to think I could handle seeing him, which I knew could very well happen.


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## LongWalk

Didn't they end it?

Perhaps a big part of the pain is the whole mistaken trust in you ex as a person to begin with. You are still blaming yourself for getting involved with the wrong person. 

You need to forgive yourself if that is an issue.

Your ex was even hospitalized once, right? She's a mess. Just consider her an unlucky soul.

How is your daughter doing?


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## maincourse99

Thanks Longwalk, good advice. I was told he was moving out, but he never did. She is a mess, I made a horrible choice, which at the time seemed like a perfect choice. Life is crazy. 

Daughter is doing well, I'm taking care of her the best I can.


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## Shooboomafoo

Its been 2 years and 4 months for me since divorcing. The ex moved in someone that wasn't supposed to have existed (no one else?) about 3 months after I moved out of the marital home. 
I drop the D12 off over there on my way to work (school bus stops over there), and pick her up on the way home from work, on the weeks I have her. 
I see the OM out there mowing, or doing sht in the yard. Just like I used to do... I hate it too, and it ignites a resentful rage in me against it all. 
Still does.. so I have as little to do over there and with the ex as possible. 
Good thing is my daughter is doing alright too. She's smart, and is putting a lot of things together pretty well about the situation over there. This morning I dropped her off for the end of my week. Next week she will be with her mom all week. I hope to get a few calls throughout the week, but otherwise, this particular morning was harder than usual, because her mom was out there in her car getting ready to leave, and I try to avoid getting there at that time. 
Not because I still have feelings for her, but because I don't like her, and don't have any respect for her.


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## maincourse99

Shoo, I agree, it isn't having feelings for them, it's that they disgust you and seeing them and/or OM brings up all the old pain of what they did. 

I feel for you having to see OM in your old house, that is so brutal.


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## zillard

Recognizing them as triggers and doing the best you can to avoid the trigger is good. When unavoidable, recognizing the feelings and accepting them as natural should help them pass.


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## EnjoliWoman

There's no time limit for triggers. After 10 years I still have mine - when I hear angry yelling I cower inside. 

You did well to change the meeting place to somewhere neutral. I think your reaction was perfectly normal and you handled it well, smiling at D and holding it together.


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## Jellybeans

Sending you a big hug.


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## Chuck71

M/C....long time no see...after reading your post, it seems your X

has no respect for your feelings, sending OM during D12's switch

she sought a reaction but you gave none and changed meeting place

it's like the bully in school who is depressed and has a rough home life

they want others at their misery party

how is your dating life going?


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## maincourse99

M/C....long time no see...after reading your post, it seems your X

has no respect for your feelings, sending OM during D12's switch

she sought a reaction but you gave none and changed meeting place

it's like the bully in school who is depressed and has a rough home life

they want others at their misery party

how is your dating life going?



She definitely doesn't care all that much about my feelings. She's never been cheated on and had her heart crushed, so it's all a little abstract to her, and for most WS. 

I date a little, but not really into it. At the moment it seems like more trouble than it's worth. I don't want anything serious that requires a huge time and emotional investment right now, but I 
also don't care for casual sex. I met one woman that seemed to be right in the middle of those two things to begin with, but it started to morph into more than I want. No big deal. I've used the past 2 years to teach myself to be ok without a romantic relationship.


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## whitehawk

Hey MC.
Sorry to read about your sitch . Like we need to know triggers though , that ones a pretty well no brainer . l'll never forget for the rest of my life the first time om happened to me . l honestly felt like killing her or at the very least spitting in her face , and him. l was gobsmacked at the shear in your face gaul and total disregard for me , my d .
Thankfully l did though raise hell when that happened and l haven't had to front that sitch since. But no doubt sometime in the future from here - 18mths for us now , l will have to face it again as our sep' lives go on from here.

My d is just coming through now though so l'm not signing until l can hopefully do a deal with her about all that stuff. See how l go because l stil couldn't handle it.

So hear you about the dating , don't worry about it though. Just do your thing you'l know when it's right for you , until then it doesn't matter.
You might even just meet someone down the track and when you do and it all just takes care of itself. anyway.

Good luck with everything , things will get better . Maybe even better than they were before .


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## stillhoping

I am so glad to see this post, I am almost two years post D, my ex is in a relationship, moved into her house. Everyone seems to think I should be ok with seeing him by now. I have tried seeing him, hoping to "get used to it". Now I avoid it at all costs, but I need to attend my son's college graduation and he will be there. We had a nice party for my oldest son, what should I do about that? People are surprised I'm not OVER it, really people, a guy walks out after almost 30 years and I am supposed to be his friend?? He is invited to two weddings this summer where I am also invited, it stinks. I love the families whose kids are getting married but the thought of being there while he is there with his girlfriend, I can't stand it. I've finally sold the house we raised the kids in together, facing that difficult day at the end of April. Sometimes it's too much, even with great friends and familyand IC. Glad to find others coping with this too


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## maincourse99

_I am so glad to see this post, I am almost two years post D, my ex is in a relationship, moved into her house. Everyone seems to think I should be ok with seeing him by now. I have tried seeing him, hoping to "get used to it". Now I avoid it at all costs, but I need to attend my son's college graduation and he will be there. We had a nice party for my oldest son, what should I do about that? People are surprised I'm not OVER it, really people, a guy walks out after almost 30 years and I am supposed to be his friend?? He is invited to two weddings this summer where I am also invited, it stinks. I love the families whose kids are getting married but the thought of being there while he is there with his girlfriend, I can't stand it. I've finally sold the house we raised the kids in together, facing that difficult day at the end of April. Sometimes it's too much, even with great friends and familyand IC. Glad to find others coping with this too_Sorry about your situation. Attending events where he is present with his girlfriend, that's a very difficult thing, I don't think I could do it, in fact I couldn't. 

When you have children together along with common friends, it makes it all the more difficult to move on and heal. There are constant reminders. The graduation, well I guess you have to do that. During the worst time, I had a prescription for anxiety (Klonopin). When I was going through challenging stuff, like a school event where my ex was there, it took enough of the edge off so I could handle it. Just something to consider, but no matter how you cut it, it's going to be hard, but it's just a few hours that you have to endure.


The other events, I don't think I would put myself through it. Best of luck to you, people tell me that someday we'll get beyond this.


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## stillhoping

At least there are only 4 tickets for the graduation, he can't take the girlfriend. Not that I know he would, he has heard me say how hard this is, so he probably wouldn't but I know if we have a party, she will likely accompany him as she has met my sons. Gets Better? How much longer?


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## esrum1

Main - brutal post sir, I most definitely feel your pain. I'm looking back on this thing and fully understanding the roller coaster effect that everyone describes. For me, having my ex tell me she wants to divorce crushed me - then, over a few weeks, I stabilized. Then, after my ex didn't actually do anything to divorce me (formally), and I found out about her serial dating, it crushed me again, wiping out any healing - so I filed, and over a few weeks, stabilized. Now, two weeks ago, I find out that she's rebounded with another person, and that crushing feeling comes again, wiping out any personal healing I've done. And yet again, I'll stabilize over the next few weeks . . . that is until I'm in your position - actually having a a face to face with the OM. And I'll likely be crushed again, and start the healing process again. 

Not sure what to exactly do to stop the pattern, and to move on. I've dated some, but I end up wanting to date someone like my ex wife, and am not really interested in women who aren't like her.

I wish I had advice. I'm several months behind you. There will come a time in the future where I'll be going through what you are. I hope you stay tough man, and be good to yourself. You're definitely not alone.


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## WhiteRaven

180 for life - only 180 will give you some semblance of a life worth living. Let me try to rationalize the whole matter. I'm a 3gun competitor and have bought and sold a few really nice guns in the last 4 years. Should I feel jealous if a competitor is using one of the guns I sold a while ago? 

Stop thinking that you were the only one with exclusive rights to cultivate your ex's ladygarden and now you have been denied your birthright. A car, a laptop, a cell fone, a spouse - what is the similarity? They are all replaceable. Find a replacement and the last model becomes a distant memory.


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## maincourse99

_180 for life - only 180 will give you some semblance of a life worth living. Let me try to rationalize the whole matter. I'm a 3gun competitor and have bought and sold a few really nice guns in the last 4 years. Should I feel jealous if a competitor is using one of the guns I sold a while ago? 

Stop thinking that you were the only one with exclusive rights to cultivate your ex's ladygarden and now you have been denied your birthright. A car, a laptop, a cell fone, a spouse - what is the similarity? They are all replaceable. Find a replacement and the last model becomes a distant memory._

Agreed, 180 is the thing, and I've been doing it for 18 months. I appreciate your advice, and a replacement might be nice someday. We're all replaceable, difference between a spouse and a cell phone is that your spouse vowed faithfulness and I was never in love with my cell phone. Also, if you lose your cell phone, you still have the confidence to go out and choose another one without doubting your ability to pick the right one, not really a big decision that would seriously impact your life if you chose wrong.

As I told her, at the very least you could have been up front with me when you had had enough of marriage, divorced me and then do whatever you wanted.


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## WhiteRaven

Don't bother talking to her about anything except your kid. It would set back your healing process. We all loved our spouses, but we had to let them go. It hurts, definitely. But take pride in the fact that you have stood up for yourself. One thing I learned after my D - humans are unreliable to a fault. It's better to get more attached to your pet than your spouse. Safer for your psyche.

As yet, you haven't found a replacement for your ex. The moment you find one, your ex would become insignificant.


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## stillhoping

Main, great points about your spouse. I agree totally, I committed to my marriage 100%, even though I didn't always live up to my part either, I didn't quit. And I truly hope that I can learn to forgive and be done with my ex without having to wait for a new love. I want to be open for that love when it comes


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## Chuck71

maincourse99 said:


> 180 for life - only 180 will give you some semblance of a life worth living. Let me try to rationalize the whole matter. I'm a 3gun competitor and have bought and sold a few really nice guns in the last 4 years. Should I feel jealous if a competitor is using one of the guns I sold a while ago?
> 
> Stop thinking that you were the only one with exclusive rights to cultivate your ex's ladygarden and now you have been denied your birthright. A car, a laptop, a cell fone, a spouse - what is the similarity? They are all replaceable. Find a replacement and the last model becomes a distant memory.
> 
> 
> Agreed, 180 is the thing, and I've been doing it for 18 months. I appreciate your advice, and a replacement might be nice someday. We're all replaceable, difference between a spouse and a cell phone is that your spouse vowed faithfulness and I was never in love with my cell phone. Also, if you lose your cell phone, you still have the confidence to go out and choose another one without doubting your ability to pick the right one, not really a big decision that would seriously impact your life if you chose wrong.
> 
> As I told her, at the very least you could have been up front with me when you had had enough of marriage, divorced me and then do whatever you wanted.


I have a high amount of respect for someone who says they 

don't wish to be M anymore. Have a D done as quick and 

smooth as possible. After the D.... post a CL ad and sleep with

84 people in a month and post it on-line. What they did not do

is.....drag it out, have no respect for their spouse or kid(s), did 

not try to plan B anyone, sabotage finances, false R, et al


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## maincourse99

_I have a high amount of respect for someone who says they 

don't wish to be M anymore. Have a D done as quick and 

smooth as possible. After the D.... post a CL ad and sleep with

84 people in a month and post it on-line. What they did not do

is.....drag it out, have no respect for their spouse or kid(s), did 

not try to plan B anyone, sabotage finances, false R, et al_

Yes, Chuck, it would be the least they could do. Thing is, people like this are selfish and generally don't have the desire to deny themselves the strange they desire. 

It would also involve for someone like my ex, who was a SAHM for 10 years, to get a job, save money, get an apartment, and hire a lawyer. And do this with no help or emotional support. Not going to happen. She needed the POSOM, who would pitch in money, help find the apartment and bang her to keep her spirits up.


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## Chuck71

spreading her legs for the purpose of manipulation

spreading her legs sounds like her only asset 

and MC, you're not wild about getting out and dating again

gee..... I wonder why  (no pun intended)

While at the homeless shelter this past weekend, I spoke

with a woman, 28, four kids (all at once), divorced. She chose

to drink to escape the pain after her H left (he was 31, she was

16....16...not a typo) her for a wanna-be stripper. Her parents

stepped up but the stress of the grandkids and D falling to the 

bottle almost destroyed their M. She admits she has failed her 

children, "my kids think it's a treat to lay their head on a 

familiar pillow. Thanks to me I may have very well ruined

their childhood." I was professional but inside I wanted to 

say, "What's his name?" One guy, thinking with his dikc, 

wrecked three generations.


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## Freak On a Leash

I have no respect for the parents of younger children who have their significant others "move in" with them. You want to do that when they are grown? Go ahead. You want to get remarried and try to blend (despite the fact that the divorce rate for 2nd marriages is around 75%)..ok, then at leat it's legit. But this bit where you have the boyfriend or girlfriend move in and play house is ridiculous. 

First you subject your children to a divorce and then force feed your love life down their throats. How abhorrent is that? When are these people going to grow the phuck up and figure out that their kids should come first. Play the dating game on the Down-Low and keep it under wraps until your kids are older and doing their own thing. That's life as a parent. That's my .02.

So right off I think your ex is a complete slimeball and am not surprised that she's acting this way and my heart goes out to you. What you need to do is establish a neutral meeting place, even if it's down the block. And have as little as possible to do with her. If you don't talk about your kid, then you don't talk. 

And be the parent your ex wife isn't being. 

I'll say this about my ex. He was a lot of things but he didn't cheat and he doesn't date. I've asked my son and he's told me straight out that he's glad that both of us don't "shove our love lives down my throat." For me, that's easy enough given that I don't HAVE a love life but even if I did, my son wouldn't know about it. 

Personally, aside from my son, I could care less about who or what my ex husband dates. I do know I'd feel really sorry for her, that's for sure. But I will say that ignorance is bliss. The less you know and the less you are involved, the better off you are.


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## zillard

Freak On a Leash said:


> I have no respect for the parents of younger children who have their significant others "move in" with them. You want to do that when they are grown? Go ahead. You want to get remarried and try to blend (despite the fact that the divorce rate for 2nd marriages is around 75%)..ok, then at leat it's legit. But this bit where you have the boyfriend or girlfriend move in and play house is ridiculous.
> 
> First you subject your children to a divorce and then force feed your love life down their throats. How abhorrent is that? When are these people going to grow the phuck up and figure out that their kids should come first. Play the dating game on the Down-Low and keep it under wraps until your kids are older and doing their own thing. That's life as a parent. That's my .02.
> 
> So right off I think your ex is a complete slimeball and am not surprised that she's acting this way and my heart goes out to you. What you need to do is establish a neutral meeting place, even if it's down the block. And have as little as possible to do with her. If you don't talk about your kid, then you don't talk.
> 
> And be the parent your ex wife isn't being.
> 
> I'll say this about my ex. He was a lot of things but he didn't cheat and he doesn't date. I've asked my son and he's told me straight out that he's glad that both of us don't "shove our love lives down my throat." For me, that's easy enough given that I don't HAVE a love life but even if I did, my son wouldn't know about it.
> 
> Personally, aside from my son, I could care less about who or what my ex husband dates. I do know I'd feel really sorry for her, that's for sure. But I will say that ignorance is bliss. The less you know and the less you are involved, the better off you are.


I think HOW it's done is important and changes things a lot. It can be done tactfully. 

If your spouse drops you and your young child you should just live alone for a decade+? Only cohabitate after signing papers? I'm not sure I could marry someone I haven't lived with first. 

Keeping your sex life on the DL is one thing. Keeping your love life a secret is another. 

Hiding a long term SO from your children could backfire terribly. They'll hear of it elsewhere and feel that you can't trust them, or respect them enough to talk about your SO with them.


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## Freak On a Leash

zillard said:


> I think HOW it's done it's important and changes things a lot. It can be done tactfully.
> 
> If your spouse drops you and your young child you should just live alone for a decade+? Only cohabitate after signing papers? I'm not sure I could marry someone I haven't lived with first.
> 
> Keeping your sex life on the DL is one thing. Keeping your love life a secret is another.
> 
> Hiding a long term SO from your children could backfire terribly. They'll hear of it elsewhere and feel that you can't trust them, or respect them enough to talk about your SO with them.


This is a matter of opinion and my opinion is worth what you paid for it.  I knew when I typed what I did that I'd get a lot of dissention. It's just how I feel. My .02. 

But I really do feel that if you have younger children (under 18) you shouldn't have anyone "move in" with you or move yourself and your kid(s) in with anyone else. 

You want to date? Go ahead. Hang out at each other's places but keep it the physical part away from the kids. No "sleeping over" and have separate residences. No "moving in" with each other until your kids are up and out. Sure, go out and date and introduce your kids to Mary Sue or Bobby Joe if it gets serious, but don't subject them to having to live together. 

It might sound harsh and hard but IMO it's best for the kids. The FIRST thing my son asked me when I told him I was getting a divorce was "Are you going to DATE?". He has since told me how happy he is that he doesn't have to witness our love lives "like the other kids do". 

I can tell you story after story about the my daughter's friends whose parents were divorced and miserable because their mother's boyfriend was living in their homes after their parents divorced. Or they felt they lost their father to the latest girlfriend who was living with him. 

What were these kids doing to avoid this scenario? Doing anything they could to avoid being home...Hanging out in the park or at the local convenience store, sleeping around, doing drugs, etc, etc. . Anything to avoid being home, because home wasn't HOME to them anymore. They felt in the way and playing second fiddle to whomever the current love interest was. 

Think about it from the kid's point of view. Is waiting a few years and devoting that time to your kids such a bad idea? I'm not talking the rest of your life here..Just when your kids are younger. Once they are out, go out and have yourself a ball. I'm all for that. 

Pretty sad and bad in my book. Divorce can be bad enough, why throw that crap at your kids too?


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## zillard

Freak On a Leash said:


> This is a matter of opinion and my opinion is worth what you paid for it.  I knew when I typed what I did that I'd get a lot of dissention. It's just how I feel. My .02.
> 
> But I really do feel that if you have younger children (under 18) you shouldn't have anyone "move in" with you or move yourself and your kid(s) in with anyone else.
> 
> You want to date? Go ahead. Hang out at each other's places but keep it the physical part away from the kids. No "sleeping over" and have separate residences. No "moving in" with each other until your kids are up and out. Sure, go out and date and introduce your kids to Mary Sue or Bobby Joe if it gets serious, but don't subject them to having to live together.
> 
> It might sound harsh and hard but IMO it's best for the kids. The FIRST thing my son asked me when I told him I was getting a divorce was "Are you going to DATE?". He has since told me how happy he is that he doesn't have to witness our love lives "like the other kids do".
> 
> I can tell you story after story about the my daughter's friends whose parents were divorced and miserable because their mother's boyfriend was living in their homes after their parents divorced. Or they felt they lost their father to the latest girlfriend who was living with him.
> 
> What were these kids doing to avoid this scenario? Doing anything they could to avoid being home...Hanging out in the park or at the local convenience store, sleeping around, doing drugs, etc, etc. . Anything to avoid being home, because home wasn't HOME to them anymore. They felt in the way and playing second fiddle to whomever the current love interest was.
> 
> Think about it from the kid's point of view. So waiting a few years and devoting that time to your kids such a bad idea? I'm not talking the rest of your life here..Just when your kids are younger. Once they are out, go out and have yourself a ball. I'm all for that.
> 
> Pretty sad and bad in my book. Divorce can be bad enough, why throw that crap at your kids too?


Most people fail at blending families. I believe many don't try hard enough to succeed. I could be wrong. It certainly doesn't seem easy; in fact it seems at times it could be worse than living with a STBX. 

Some people are fine with a situation where both live apart and keep their love life completely separate from home. 

Others do not get satisfaction from that situation. If that's the case, a decade of that could result in a significant amount of resentment for the child.

I don't believe either is "good" or "bad" for the children, as long as it is approached well. 

Most divorces end in parents that do not effectively coparent, much less communicate in a healthy manner. That is incredibly hard. I know. Throw in a third party and it can get even messier, no doubt. 

But I'm an optimist. I think with hard work on both sides it can work. Yeah, that depends on a lot of factors. 

If you do find someone it could possibly work with, I'd rather give it a shot and teach my daughter that it's worth it to try. Even if it fails you can learn from it. 

I believe that's better than shielding her from the relationship experience all together. I learned a lot from my parents relationship. I want her to learn too. 

Even if it's hard.


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## Freak On a Leash

zillard said:


> But I'm an optimist. I think with hard work on both sides it can work. Yeah, that depends on a lot of factors.


Well, there you go. I'm not an optimist. I'm cynical and tend to think that even when intentions are good, results often aren't. I tend to err on the side of caution, especially when kids are involved. 

But that's just me. I don't judge, I just state an opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree but it's out there, along with everyone else's.


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## zillard

Freak On a Leash said:


> But that's just me. I don't judge, I just state an opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree but it's out there, along with everyone else's.


And you make valid points and have valid concerns. I respect that and it does help to read your opinions.


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## Chuck71

what both of you are saying is, nothing worthwhile in life comes easy


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## maincourse99

_Think about it from the kid's point of view. So waiting a few years and devoting that time to your kids such a bad idea? I'm not talking the rest of your life here..Just when your kids are younger. Once they are out, go out and have yourself a ball. I'm all for that. _


I agree that for younger children it would be best for the WS not to move in with the POSOM/OW. It adds another level of trauma to the situation, the kids' world is turned upside down by the divorce and the shattering of their home life, especially if it was a happy home before the affair like mine was. 

Plus, it's the POSOM! My daughter knows what happened, now she has to interact with the guy who chased her mother and contributed to the breakup of her family? It's horrible, but again, we're dealing with self-centered people and there's nothing at all that can be done about it.


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## Freak On a Leash

Chuck71 said:


> what both of you are saying is, nothing worthwhile in life comes easy


When it comes to kids you make sacrifices. That's my point. They are first. Whether it's about postponing your love life or where you live. Whether it's about the money you spend. I've basically had my life on "hold" for years and will continue to do so for at least another 2 years, living in place I don't want to live, working in a job I don't want to work for the sake of my kids. 

I think the same kind of thing should be applied when it comes to subjecting your children to a complete stranger disrupting their lives because you don't want to be alone. That's tough. That's life. 

You made the choice to have your kids. They had no choice in the matter. They are here and you, as the adult parent, should suck it up and be there for them and make them your primary concern. Once they are up and out then it's your turn to get on with your life. 

Harsh, but that's how I see it.

BTW, the parents who have extramarital affairs, destroy their kids home life and then MOVE IN THE POS "OTHER" PERSON IN WITH THEIR CHILDREN should lie in a pit of their own feces and slowly burn in Hell as far as I'm concerned. Just sayin'.

Next time, I'll tell you how I REALLY feel.


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## Chuck71

When one has virtually placed their lives on hold due to

a very troubled marriage, decided to D, makes assumption

"had they stayed, it would have never changed, so I had D

to give myself the piece of mind and courage" I agree 110%

If the children are a few years away from leaving home

or college, that would be a great time frame to work on

yourself and date a little. nothing serious but date. Maybe 

when the child goes away it would be time to explore love again.

What about the people who have children 12 and under, 8 and under?

When I met Window Cork, her son was eight. I agreed it was not good to

intro me to him for a good while. We met, his dad was too busy chasing

snatch, drinking, raising he!!.....just like I was....until I met his mom.

I made sure his homework was correct and he showed his work, taught him

to check tire pressure, check oil, basic car work. Until he fell to 'thugs n drugs'

at age 19, we were very close. I intro'd him as my child, he was wasn't he?

It is not exactly what you do, it's how you do it. FoaL-Had your son been eight,

would you have put your life in regards to any serious relationship on hold, for ten years?


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## Freak On a Leash

Chuck71 said:


> FoaL-Had your son been eight,
> 
> would you have put your life in regards to any serious relationship on hold, for ten years?


YES. Without any reservations whatsoever. THAT is my exactly my point. It's THEN at THAT age, when your kids need YOU the most. Maybe you are a decent a guy and it worked out for you and whomever you dated, but the process of divorcing, uprooting the kids and disrupting their lives is bad enough without introducing a "live in" situation to a younger child. I would never expose my children to all that emotional uncertainty and disruption. 

I'm not saying put your life on HOLD. Though just having kids has that effect. Your time, your money, your priorities aren't your own in any case the moment you bring a child into this world. 

Sure, I would DATE, perhaps have a steady, committed relationship if it worked out that way, but to LIVE with the other person? NO WAY. That is what I'm discussing here. The LIVING TOGETHER. IMO that should be put on hold until the child is independent and older and has a life of his/her own. To subject a younger child to that isn't something I'd do. 

Save it for weekends when the kids aren't around or get a sitter or hotel room. Sure they can visit and hang out but they shouldn't have to see Mommy or Daddy disappear into the bedroom with the latest love interest or wake up to it in the morning. 

You have kids and you make sacrifices. It's what you do. I'm not saying roll over and die but they should be raised in as secure, nurturing and stable environment as possible. Having a boyfriend/girlfriend move in as soon as the ink is dry on the divorce papers isn't setting up that environment as far as I'm concerned. Save it for later. 

That's how I feel and have always felt. It's one reason I stayed in a crap marriage until my kids were 15 and 18 instead of 5 and 8, although in hindsight part of me wishes I had gotten out and just raised them myself but I wasn't as strong a person back then as I am now so didn't have it in me. 

Again, this is just my .02.


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## zillard

To me it highly depends on the people and circumstances. 

Moving a GF/BF in right after the divorce ink dries? I don't agree with that. 

After a long time together, done tactfully... I'm open to that. 

Children do need their parents to prioritize them. Divorce can be traumatic to them. Seeing ma or pa with a new mate will be hard, pretty much guaranteed. That doesn't mean it's all bad though, IMO. There can be many benefits and good life lessons there. Children don't always hate stepmom/stepdad. A male child can benefit from being raised by another man, especially if he rarely sees Dad. Same with a female child and a stepmom figure.

Children should be a parent's priority. But I would argue that they shouldn't be #1 top priority. Life should not be put on hold when you have kids, married or divorced. If a parent does not prioritize his/her own happiness, that can affect the kids negatively. Certainly sacrifices are made for our children. That is a must. But what and how you sacrifice ultimately depends on what you value, and how much. 

Put your oxygen mask on first. If you don't, you're no good to anyone.

If a parent doesn't want a fulfilling relationship, cool. If dating on the side is fulfilling, cool, but we're all different. If dating on the side is not fulfilling enough, I don't think they should shelve the possibility of living with someone for a decade. 

If they can not pull it off well, or do prioritize the new love above the child, then I agree they shouldn't live together. 

#1 - Me (it may seem selfish, but if I'm not 100%, my D won't get 100%)
#2 - My daughter
#3 - New partner* 

*If she's good and cool with that, it can benefit #2 and #1. If it only benefits #1, then she's not #3, she's #2. And that won't work.


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## zillard

Kids internalize a lot and take things personally. That is why HOW you divorce can make or break them.

I see life after divorce in the same light. 

Living alone for many years after can potentially be good or bad for the kids. I don't see a right or wrong. 

You can teach your kids the value of fulfilling relationships, even when difficult. There is great risk there too. 

You can teach your kids that they are more important and you are willing to sacrifice anything for them. There is great risk there too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

I can only offer my own experience regarding post divorce dating, and I only dated one guy after my divorce, who I eventually married. My kids were little, 5 and 2, and while my kids met him casually early on we did not live together. He came over a couple of times a week, and sometimes I'd get a sitter and we'd go out for dinner. I spent most of my time (when I wasn't working) with them. 

After a little while he'd stay the night, but we'd go to bed after them and get up before. My older one once said "bob (not his real name), you came back for breakfast". He said yeah, your mom makes great breakfast. I don't think they ever really figured it out, but after 5 years we moved in together and planned the wedding. It's now been 9 years and it's worked out fine. But I'm glad I spent so much time with them. I agree that kids must be priority one and your personal life must not be pushed into their face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Freak On a Leash

zillard said:


> To me it highly depends on the people and circumstances.
> 
> Moving a GF/BF in right after the divorce ink dries? I don't agree Children don't always hate stepmom/stepdad. A male child can benefit from being raised by another man, especially if he rarely sees Dad. Same with a female child and a stepmom figure.


 I had a friend who got divorced from a terrible woman. She was a horrible wife and a bad influence for his daughter. After they divorced he got custody of his 12 year old daughter. Personally I thought he should've stayed in the apartment he had with her and raised her and dated on the side. He didn't. 

A year after the divorce (at least he waited that long) he went online dating and was lucky enough to meet a nice woman with a 17 year old daughter about an hour north of him. They started to date, which was fine. 

So then, what did they do? He got a 2 bedroom apartment and she moved her daughter out of the town that she grew up in during her senior year and they all moved in together. They put the 2 girls, complete strangers, together in the same room. :slap: And then they expected everyone to live happily ever after. 

Well, they didn't. The girls hated each other. The older girl especially hated her mother's boyfriend and blamed him for ruining her life..and if you think about it, their relationship did just that. Her mother couldn't have waited ONE year to move in with her boyfriend? 

The older girl left home as soon as she could and had little to do with any of them again. She wound up moving across the country to live with friends after flunking out of her first year of college. 

The younger one, however, made out better. The couple eventually did get married and the stepmother was more of a mother to my friend's daughter. She probably saved her in the end. 

So one daughter was sacrificed so the other could flourish. I still think what they did was completely and utterly selfish, stupid and crappy. 



> Children should be a parent's priority. But I would argue that they shouldn't be #1 top priority. Life should not be put on hold when you have kids, married or divorced. If a parent does not prioritize his/her own happiness, that can affect the kids negatively. Certainly sacrifices are made for our children. That is a must. But what and how you sacrifice ultimately depends on what you value, and how much.
> 
> Put your oxygen mask on first. If you don't, you're no good to anyone.


I see your point here and to some extent I agree with it. I've done a lot without my kids and in spite of them. In the end I have great kids who probably respect me more as a result because they know that life is NOT about them. You don't want to give your kids the impression that the world revolves around them.



> If a parent doesn't want a fulfilling relationship, cool. If dating on the side is fulfilling, cool, but we're all different. If dating on the side is not fulfilling enough, I don't think they should shelve the possibility of living with someone for a decade.


 I understand, but still can't get myself to appreciate or accept that moving your kids in with what amounts to strangers during their formative years is a good thing. I do think you can date, have an active social life but wait until they are older to take that final step of living with someone you are committed to. 

If they are committed to you they will understand and wait.


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## zillard

lifeistooshort said:


> I can only offer my own experience regarding post divorce dating, and I only dated one guy after my divorce, who I eventually married. My kids were little, 5 and 2, and while my kids met him casually early on we did not live together. He came over a couple of times a week, and sometimes I'd get a sitter and we'd go out for dinner. I spent most of my time (when I wasn't working) with them.
> 
> After a little while he'd stay the night, but we'd go to bed after them and get up before. My older one once said "bob (not his real name), you came back for breakfast". He said yeah, your mom makes great breakfast. I don't think they ever really figured it out, but after 5 years we moved in together and planned the wedding. It's now been 9 years and it's worked out fine. But I'm glad I spent so much time with them. I agree that kids must be priority one and your personal life must not be pushed into their face.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you took a great approach. 

When I first started dating again it was not around my daughter. I didn't even allow her over when my D was home. When it was clearly getting serious, I spoke to my D about the fact that I was dating and addressed issues with a child psych before advancing the relationship. Slowly our kids would have play dates. Then camping trips together in group settings with separate tents. Then we'd go out to dinner with the kids. In almost a year we've had 1 sleepover, on Christmas, where we woke first and moved to the couch. 

Doing things tactfully can take a long time, a lot of finesse, and a lot of patience. But it is worth it. 

To clarify, I do not agree with rushing a new person into the home. Not at all. Especially not an AP.


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## zillard

Freak On a Leash said:


> If they are committed to you they will understand and wait.


I do agree with this. If both partners are on the same page, and are satisfied with the situation, more power to them!


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## Freak On a Leash

lifeistooshort said:


> I can only offer my own experience regarding post divorce dating, and I only dated one guy after my divorce, who I eventually married. My kids were little, 5 and 2, and while my kids met him casually early on we did not live together. He came over a couple of times a week, and sometimes I'd get a sitter and we'd go out for dinner. I spent most of my time (when I wasn't working) with them.
> 
> After a little while he'd stay the night, but we'd go to bed after them and get up before. My older one once said "bob (not his real name), you came back for breakfast". He said yeah, your mom makes great breakfast. I don't think they ever really figured it out, but after 5 years we moved in together and planned the wedding. It's now been 9 years and it's worked out fine. But I'm glad I spent so much time with them. I agree that kids must be priority one and your personal life must not be pushed into their face.


I'm glad it worked out for you.  Where was their father in all this? If he was an absentee father and their stepfather has played an important role in their lives as they've grown up then its' win-win. :smthumbup:

Your kids were really young when you got divorced and it seems you were good about prioritizing them and introducing them bit by bit to your new boyfriend. You did it over a long period of time before you actually moved in and got married. 

And you DID get married and it was with ONE guy you were serious with. There was no "parade" of lovers and boyfriends and it wasn't with the person who you had an affair with and actually broke up your marriage over. 

I think you did it about as best as it could be done and used wise judgment and prudence and gave a lot of thought and consideration for your kids.


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## Freak On a Leash

zillard said:


> I think you took a great approach.
> 
> When I first started dating again it was not around my daughter. I didn't even allow her over when my D was home. When it was clearly getting serious, I spoke to my D about the fact that I was dating and addressed issues with a child psych before advancing the relationship. Slowly our kids would have play dates. Then camping trips together in group settings with separate tents. Then we'd go out to dinner with the kids. In almost a year we've had 1 sleepover, on Christmas, where we woke first and moved to the couch.
> 
> Doing things tactfully can take a long time, a lot of finesse, and a lot of patience. But it is worth it.
> 
> To clarify, I do not agree with rushing a new person into the home. Not at all. Especially not an AP.


I think you put a lot of thought into this and handled it well. Are you still with this person? Are you going to marry her?


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## lifeistooshort

Freak On a Leash said:


> I'm glad it worked out for you.  Where was their father in all this? If he was an absentee father and their stepfather has played an important role in their lives as they've grown up then its' win-win. :smthumbup:
> 
> Your kids were really young when you got divorced and it seems you were good about prioritizing them and introducing them bit by bit to your new boyfriend. You did it over a long period of time before you actually moved in and got married.
> 
> And you DID get married and it was with ONE guy you were serious with. There was no "parade" of lovers and boyfriends and it wasn't with the person who you had an affair with and actually broke up your marriage over.
> 
> I think you did it about as best as it could be done and used wise judgment and prudence and gave a lot of thought and consideration for your kids.


Thank you. Their father was active duty military and they'd moved him out of state, so he saw them a couple of times a year. He didn't keep in touch with them beyond that; I'm sure he wasn't thrilled about me dating, but he was also abusive to me and fought the divorce. I certainly did not parade men, I'm not the type to have lots of men.

My ex moved back to the area and does see them
now; ironically, he's had a few girlfriends that have met the boys right away and spent the night while they're there. They are now 13 and 10 and seem to be ok with it, I don't get involved as long as they're nice to my kids. My ex and I have finally have a half way decent relationship so I try to keep that going.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Freak On a Leash

lifeistooshort said:


> Thank you. Their father was active duty military and they'd moved him out of state, so he saw them a couple of times a year. He didn't keep in touch with them beyond that; I'm sure he wasn't thrilled about me dating, but he was also abusive to me and fought the divorce. I certainly did not parade men, I'm not the type to have lots of men.
> 
> My ex moved back to the area and does see them
> now; ironically, he's had a few girlfriends that have met the boys right away and spent the night while they're there. They are now 13 and 10 and seem to be ok with it, I don't get involved as long as they're nice to my kids. My ex and I have finally have a half way decent relationship so I try to keep that going.


:slap: Your ex sounds like a real peach.  You are a lot more charitable than I would be. At least your kids have a positive role model in their stepdad. 

I wouldn't be surprised if my ex were dating. I have asked my son if he is and my son doesn't seem to know or care. He has said that his father "doesn't enjoy living alone as like you do." So I could see it happening. But he's 16 and is pretty much on his own and has no problem telling me and his father how he feels about things. 

Plus, last time we talked about this, prior to our divorce, my ex shared my feelings about dating with the kids around. 

But it's true, there's nothing much can do about their father and his girlfriends so it's something you have to put up with. You can only be held accountable for your own actions and I admire you for acting so well in this respect. I'm sure your kids really appreciate it too.


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## zillard

Freak On a Leash said:


> I think you put a lot of thought into this and handled it well. Are you still with this person? Are you going to marry her?


After some hurdles, yes. 

I don't know. Focusing on today.


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## Freak On a Leash

Well, at the risk of doing some serious thread drift and your not liking my response, I'll refrain from commenting. But I do wish you the best of luck.


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## maincourse99

It's an interesting conversation. The scenario that I think is most harmful to children is the WS and POSOM/OW moving in together soon after destroying one or more families, then expecting the child/children to be ok with visits and overnights. 

But you can't expect selfish people to deny themselves anything for the benefit of their children.


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## angstire

maincourse99 said:


> As I told her, at the very least you could have been up front with me when you had had enough of marriage, divorced me and then do whatever you wanted.


But they don't do this part, do they? Better to hide in the fog and blame the left behind. Gross people, we're lucky to be rid of them, because they would have pulled the same sh1t for another ten years if they'd been so inclined.


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