# What Else Can I do?



## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I guess I've been asking myself this question for several months now, and I really feel like I need some feedback.

Long story short, I had both a P/A and E/A, that ended 8 months ago on D day. My husband and I have been together for 25 years, where there had been no infidility on either side. We're trying to move forward, I feel I have showed much remorse over what I have done, and have given up all my freedom (passwords etc.) I think I kind of expected that that would be enough for him to move forward and have the trust he once had in me. I feel guilty when I leave the house to visit friends (who he knows), or even grocery shopping, it seems it still triggers him to feel suspicious of my activities. I know he's having difficulty getting past the fact that I gave myself to someone else (he was my one and only), it seems to be blocking him somehow.

So what other things can I do to help my marriage recover, I really want to feel emotionally connected to him, and I feel like we're both holding back for whatever fears we may have. The only area that seems to have improved dramatically is our sex life(hysterical bonding is over), although it's pretty much just satisfying our needs, not really romantic.

Thanks for reading, I know I sound all over the place....


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Have you gone to MC and presented this question during a session? It seems like it would be the perfect forum since the counselor could help coach it along.

My sex life after my EA increased as well. It is also not romantic. And I got accused of using my wife for sex, even though she initiates it.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

believe it or not 8 months isn't even half way for your hubby to completely heal from it


but there are still more things you can do....


start spending more time together, find common things that you both enjoy to do and do them as a couple

start being direct in your wants/needs and have him do the same, no more passive aggressive BS

put aside a 20-30 minute block of time a day to just talk- it can be about the affair or other problems in the marriage or even just about your days, start learning how to communicate better with each other


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You need to do three things.

First, be mindful of how your actions (even innocent actions like meeting girlfriends) may trigger your husband. Your husband now has a moderate case of PTSD which can trigger waves of anxiety from things totally unrelated to your affair. For example, if you're meeting your girlfriend at a restaurant, which is next door to another restaurant that is the first place you and your husband went to eat after he learned of your affair, that could be a trigger. Is it rational? No. Is it avoidable? No. You just have to try to avoid behaviors that you know will trigger him.

Second, you need to talk to him about the affair. I know you probably want to avoid talking about it since you're dealing with one of your personal failures. But it will help your husband if you periodically ask him what he needs you to do to help him cope.

Third, you just have to give it time. I've seen estimates on this board of a full recovery after an affair taking up to five years after D-Day. Doing the first two steps can help shorten the recovery process, but it's still a long row to hoe.

Good luck.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

There was a statement I read on a thread not to long ago that really hit home with me and you may want to consider it " Nobody ever gets over that intimacy with their wife is no longer exclusive"

If your husband is typical of most other men, even when intimate with you sometimes the mind will kick in images of you with the other man. Yes, the physcial need will be satisfied but the romantic, intimate contact that is special between two people will never be to the level that it was or could have been because of the infidelity. That is gone forever. You took that away with your action.

You have to keep working on it to bring it to a level that it can now be. Good Luck, it is not an easy fix.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed don't you think you would be feeling the same way as your husband? Have you been tested for STD's?


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Thanks for the reply's ....great advice

I know what his triggers are because I used to lie so damn much about where I was going etc. So I know I have to work more on reassuring him that I know it bothers him that I'm going to certain places, but he also wants me to go out and have a good time.

MC is something we tried, but he really lashed out at me during the sessions, called me some horrible things etc. Then the therapist felt sorry for me, and took my side, not good I know. (and was a male). The other therapist kept focussing on the fact that my husband may have ADD WTF? so we stopped going. I brought it up in the last few days, that I felt we really needed to talk about our needs, and not focus on the affair as much, which we have talked about to death. He says he doesn't want to go now, kind of like I ****ed things up, I have to fix them.

I know we need to go out together, we never do, we are so wrapped up with two young children, and 1 adult child that we forget about ourselves.

I get that the intimacy in our sexual relationship is forever changed, and the sex we have now is nothing like before, it's no really a loving emotional bonding, it's not bad, but just feels so different for us. I think being in my 40's and experiencing another lover awakened something in me that I'm exploring...but that's a topic for Sex and Marriage I guess.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

working_together said:


> I think being in my 40's and experiencing another lover awakened something in me that I'm exploring...but that's a topic for Sex and Marriage I guess.


Ouch. That's a super-delicate subject. You certainly can't bluntly state, "The OM liked this, why don't we try it."

Maybe getting some couples' educational-style sex tapes to expand your repertoire.

Good luck.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

It's possible the emotion will never return to sex, before it was a cherished special thing the two of you shared together, but now your husband knows he is just another guy. See, not only did you destroy his trust, but you willingly gave away something you and he shared, and I don't think you understand that or the permanent hurt you indicted.

I'm not trying to be knee jek nasty, but from your tone you come off as " my bad, yes I had sex with another guy, my bad, here I promise not to do that anymore, are we good now? Ok, well then just tell me the thing to do, I'll get it over with and then we will just put all this bad stuff behind us.

Meanwhile your husband has had his faith, trust, love, and heart ripped and trashed down its core. You are lucky he is still with you and trying, because a smart would never accept a cheater back into their heart.

So expect to be working hard for the next coupe of years making a new marriage with him. The old oe where he implicitly trusted you with his heart is gone, you willingly chose to end that marriage by cheating. Keep in mind, the emotional attachment during sex may never return. Ever, just like his knowledge that you would never cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

As for exploring, he might be suspicious your new tricks were taught by the OM which frankly would kill off any and all interest in trying them with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Go to IC if you are not going now. It will show him how you are working to fix yourself and the situation. You can ask the counselor for advice as well on what else you can do. 

If you're exploring something sexual without your husband being involved, and only your husband, you're wasting your time here.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> As for exploring, he might be suspicious your new tricks were taught by the OM which frankly would kill off any and all interest in trying them with you.


Big +1 :iagree::iagree:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

A bit of advice, do not ever tll him that the other man awakened you sexually, because if he has any self esteem left, that will kill it. You are basically tell him, that he is a failure a a lover, that you sent all those years with him and it did not inspire you, but the OM set you a light sexually.

If a man hears that from his wife, he will never desire her again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> A bit of advice, do not ever tll him that the other man awakened you sexually, because if he has any self esteem left, that will kill it. You are basically tell him, that he is a failure a a lover, that you sent all those years with him and it did not inspire you, but the OM set you a light sexually.
> 
> *If a man hears that from his wife, he will never desire her again.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I can vouch for that.

After I discovered a video of my wife having sex with another man, all my desire for her died.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You are going to have a long, and it may be life-long battle with his sub-conscious

No matter what you think/want to think----when he is alone---driving, at work, in the wee small hours of the morning, the A., is their with him, and it may diminish, but it won't go away

When you 2 are in the bed-room---I can promise you, your lover is there---your H., wondering, comparing----You thinking how wonderful the scum was, and how it awakened you----well that awakening, killed your H.---but you already know that---but that is what each of you faces in the bedroom

This takes 2 to 5 years, to come back to a decent relationship, at best------

You say you are remorseful, you are transparent----you check in, that's all part of what you have done to yourself------
But in all your statements, all I hear about is what you have done----you, you, you---for YOU---what are you doing FOR YOUR H.

Do you hold him when the pain comes, do you help him thru his triggers, do you help him to avoid triggers---YOU HAVE TO BE SELFLESS---You still come off as selfish, in many of your thought processes.

Have you tried to WOO your H., as each of you did when you were younger, and dating, and starry-eyed, and there was no one else

Take your H., out on dates---YOU plan them, send your H. flowers---when you do go out---do the things he likes to do!!

You will never know the hurt you have caused him, you may think you do---but you are not even close in your estimate of how badly he is F'd up----he may never get over what you have done---and that is the big elephant in the house with you--- it just won't go away----

Just hope you can still be together/make it----to your golden years---cuz, to be out on your own/left alone during that period of your life---Is extremely hard, and many do not make it, on their own-----You screwed around knowing the consequences, didn't care---so now just suck it up, and do/try the best you can to make a new/better life

Hopefully you will communicate---you don't need counselors to talk to each other---you just have to sit down, and discuss things, and make sure you do it each and everytime you have a problem---DO NOT hide/hold anything back!!!!!!!

For even tho you have not told us the reason for you to stray---I am sure lack of communication, must have played some part, in all of it.---I hope you just didn't take a lover, cuz you wanted a sexual awakening, and you were excited by the dangerous, sneaky game you were playing at your H./families expense.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

A lot of the comments have really been enlightening, and eye opening....great feedback, even if it's a bit hard to hear sometimes.

As for the sex in our relationship, it hasn't been negative, and hubby has never mentioned that he feels as though OM was the "elephant" cloud in our bedroom. He's enjoying the new me, so to speak, and I'll leave it at that.

I believe I have been selfish, yes, "me, me, me", I agree with that totally, and I haven't really looked at what I need to do for him so that he will feel secure and loved in our relationship. I've been wanting to move forward from the affair at lightening speed, and I really need to slow down and deal with the issues that arise, as well as the triggers that pop up occasionally. I miss the old him, I want to see him smile and laugh, and be at ease with being a great dad, and not so afraid that if he doesn't spend all his time with me, I'll feel as though my needs won't be met. Make sense?

Communication was never a problem within our marriage, except for the 8 months prior to my affair. Unfortunately, we're both social workers and we used to really talk about what we needed from each other, so what happened? Well, obviously it was my issues, a mid life crisis, I was unhappy with my job, I wanted more for my self and my family. I had two young children later in life, and felt overwhelmed with what it entailed sometimes. Something I'm currently working on, although I should go back to IC. Just seems every time I go to counseling, the same issues keep coming up about my parents, in terms of my mother's handicap (physcial) and the fact that I was parentified etc. Then there's issues around my father divorcing my mom while she was pregnant with my sister....lots of stuff. But, I really feel I've dealt with those issues, and the real issue as to what led to my affair was within myself, and lack of self-fullfillment, but who knows.

Sorry for rambling on...on a good note, hubby and I have a date tonight, something we used to do a lot of when we were dating, having a couple of drinks and playing a few games of pool....lets hope I beat his ass tonight....we are pretty competitive.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

From what you say, it appears your husband is okay with you having had an affair and has put it behind him and you. 

You found a rare man.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

W_T, even happily married people can have affairs. I recommend that you and your husband obtain and read a copy of Dr Shirley Glass' book titled *'Not Just Friends'*. Let's face it, you did not wake up one morning and said to yourself _"I'm going to cheat on my husband with OM"_. No, your affair was a process of you crossing marital boundaries which eventually made you betray your husband. Sure those events that you stated (mid life crisis, unhappiness with your job, etc) did leave you in a vulnerable state but many men and women also experience the same things and yet they never betray their spouse, why is that? They - consciously or unconsciously - did not cross marital boundaries. So again, get the book and with your husband at your side, read the book so that both of you can better process the ordeal of your affair.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Thanks for the idea of the book, I'll check it out at the book store next time.

No doubt there are other issues that led to the affair. There was the aspect of someone else desiring me and giving me the compliments I so needed at that time. I didn't want to hear them only from my husband, it wasn't enough.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

working_together said:


> Thanks for the idea of the book, I'll check it out at the book store next time.
> 
> No doubt there are other issues that led to the affair. There was the aspect of someone else desiring me and giving me the compliments I so needed at that time. I didn't want to hear them only from my husband, it wasn't enough.


Are you going to IC (individual counseling) at the moment? You should because you need to conquer the desire for outside validation otherwise you may find yourself once again overwhelmed by it and not care about whether or not you cross marital boundaries.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

working_together said:


> Thanks for the reply's ....great advice
> 
> I know what his triggers are because I used to lie so damn much about where I was going etc. So I know I have to work more on reassuring him that I know it bothers him that I'm going to certain places, but he also wants me to go out and have a good time.
> 
> ...


Most likely the relationship is over. Infidelity leads to the end most of the time. At about 2 years out,most men want to just get out. So, I think you just ride it out until he decides what he wants. 8months is way too soon for him to know.
Perhaps he should get a similar awakening with a new lover, too. seems fair,eh?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

working_together said:


> I feel I have showed much remorse over what I have done, and have given up all my freedom (passwords etc.) I think I kind of expected that that would be enough for him to move forward and have the trust he once had in me.


If you "kind of expected that that would be enough" after only 8 months then you do not feel "much remorse". You do not get it at all do you? Do you have any idea how much you have hurt him?



working_together said:


> I felt we really needed to talk about our needs, and not focus on the affair as much, which we have talked about to death.


You have not talked about it enough. It takes years to recover if they recover at all. It has only been 8 months. He is still deciding if he can forgive you. He may not. Divorce over your affair is still a very real possibility for him, and your current attitude of expecting easy forgiveness only increases the odds. If it were me, your "we have talked about to death" point of view would be enough for me to want to move on.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

working_together said:


> I think being in my 40's and experiencing another lover awakened something in me that I'm exploring...but that's a topic for Sex and Marriage I guess.


Yeah it awakened you and destroyed your marriage. How enlightened. Now your husband just has to deal with the new you that your exploring. He will trigger for awhile. You see he thought you were someone and you were someone else. So he has to figure out who the new you is. So far she is a lying cheater who has crushed his heart. Great awakening.....not.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Initfortheduration said:


> Yeah it awakened you and destroyed your marriage. How enlightened. Now your husband just has to deal with the new you that your exploring. He will trigger for awhile. You see he thought you were someone and you were someone else. So he has to figure out who the new you is. So far she is a lying cheater who has crushed his heart. Great awakening.....not.


And he has to ak himself does trust this new person, does he even like this new person, If he makes his decision based on the OPs past actions he will choose to dvorce her and purge her from his life. If he bases it on blind faith and her recent attempts a looking like an ok wife, then he might stay, but he will always remember the wife that stabbed him in the heart and smiled while she turned the knfe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

working_together said:


> I get that the intimacy in our sexual relationship is forever changed, and the sex we have now is nothing like before, it's no really a loving emotional bonding, it's not bad, but just feels so different for us.


Translation: Now that you have cheated on your husband, sex with your husband is "not bad" but it does not do it for you like it did before.



working_together said:


> I think being in my 40's and experiencing another lover awakened something in me that I'm exploring.


Sounds like you think that "experiencing another lover" was a good thing in your life. Does not sound like remorse to me. Without true remorse by you, your husband will never get over it.

If you are saying the the same things to your husband that you are saying in your posts here, he is thinking who is this person? Reading your posts, if your husband does not leave you, I believe that the odds are good that you will explore and cheat on him again. Your husband is probably thinking the same thing too.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Maybe your attitude will change if your husband has sex with another woman behind your back for 8 months and put your health at risk for STD's. Your posts imply that the affair was a good thing because it awakened something in you.

How would you feel if your husband told you that he really enjoyed having intercourse with his female lover for 8 months behind your back and betraying your marriage and relationship because it awakened something in him sexually so it was a good thing?

You do not have a clue the pain you have inflicted on your husband. You have lied and cheated on your husband for 8 months. If you think he will ever trust you again completely and look at you the same way again then you are deluding yourself.


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## Iamchanging (Nov 15, 2011)

I have to disagree here...My H was unfaithful to me and yes it was hell for the both of us in that first year. Now 16yrs later I no longer remember all the pain I felt because of his unfaithfullness, maybe women take it differently or maybe I just decided I needed to REALLY forgive him and move on and never recount the moment or allow anymore images in my head. You gotta be strong for this, constantly pushing them away (that's forgiveness). Also I've read other posts here of MEN who have forgiven their wifes and moved on...I personally think its a time thing and def forgiveness thing. But if you are too caught up in your ego it will take ages to get over and men are known to have a fragile egos, my H being one of these men. Its not a negative thing just a fact.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Iamchanging said:


> But if you are too caught up in your ego it will take ages to get over and men are known to have a fragile egos, my H being one of these men. Its not a negative thing just a fact.


The same can be said about cheating wives. Their egos were so fragile that they needed to have an affair in order to validate their worth as women.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Ok, lot's of responses, and I totally expected some of the backlash, but I have also listened and took to heart some great advice....thanks.

yeah, I know it's going to be a tough and long road a head of us, initially, yes, I just wanted it to go away...rug sweeping. But I now know that I cannot do that, and the real work starts here. The aftermath seems to be much worse that Dday.

I don't completely understand my husbands pain, no, but I see how it's affected him personally, and work wise as well, and sometimes I wish could grab a magic wand make his pain vanish. I want to make a 25 year marriage work, and realize that I have to show him my remorse through actions as said on the board over and over, showing that he can one day trust me, and not feel at times disgusted with my behavior. He once was totally devoted and I have destroyed that. I have to live with that for the rest of my life, for what an ego boost? Obviously not worth it.

I believe that I would never put myself in a situation where I become so vulnerable that I would enter an affair again. Maybe I am wrong, but I feel that I can protect myself and my marriage by seeing the warning signs within myself, and deal with those issues, and share them with my husband.

What do you think?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

working_together said:


> Ok, lot's of responses, and I totally expected some of the backlash, but I have also listened and took to heart some great advice....thanks.
> 
> yeah, I know it's going to be a tough and long road a head of us, initially, yes, I just wanted it to go away...rug sweeping. But I now know that I cannot do that, and the real work starts here. The aftermath seems to be much worse that Dday.
> 
> ...


By your words above you have already started in the right direction. Your consistent actions will over time help heal your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Reconciliation is a long and hard road. This is just a beggining. You have to show consistent actions and dedication to help him heal and learn to trust you again, ever so gradually. Baby step at a time. Be patient. You do sound remorseful and committed to do the hard work, but your posts somehow come across as impatient and rushing the whole process. 

I am sure there were many root causes that contributed to your cheating, but in every single affair one single characteristic that stands out without exception is the WS's selfishness. Selfishness leads to the sense of entitlement and lack of empathy to BS. You may have ended the affair, but your character flaw must be addressed so that you can show BS that you truly have changed.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Despite what other betrayed spouses have said, I do believe that there are some people who can transcend the ordeal of infidelity and go on to have new marriages.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

There is something cold in your posts that show a lack of empathy. You are trying, but you just cannot feel what you do not feel. I think that you are doing your best to understand but think that you need to seek IC to resolve this in yourself. If you see my past post you will see that this is the first time that I have ever recommended IC as I usually do not think that it is the answer.

I have hope for you. Good luck.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm just curious why you think I'm cold? and yes, I know I need to go back to IC.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

How did your husband find out about your affair? Who pursued who within your affair? How long was your affair? While in the affair, did you ever thought about leaving your husband for the as OM?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed how do you think you would be feeling and what would you want your husband to do? How would you be feeling that after 25 years of marriage that your husband was willing to put your health at risk for STD's for 8 months behind your back by taking a lover? Maybe you can gain more empathy by looking at it from this perspective.

What you have done to your husband is to destroy his confidence, self-worth and his manhood. Honestly from reading your posts I don't think you have a clue of what you have really done to him. If for 8 month you could have so easily lied to his face and have sex with your lover and putting your husband at risk for STD; why in the world do you think he would ever trust you again? If the roles were reversed would you?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

morituri said:


> Despite what other betrayed spouses have said, I do believe that there are some people who can transcend the ordeal of infidelity and go on to have new marriages.


The stats seem to be that about 30% remain married and 70% of thise are unhappy. So, about a 9% chance of a happy marraige.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

working_together said:


> I'm just curious why you think I'm cold? and yes, I know I need to go back to IC.


I think it is that "sexual awakening " deal, that you seem to take as a positve, despite admiting it keeps you and your H from connecting emotionally. It sounds as if it is a tradeoff that you are pleased with.

Perhaps it is the impatience after only 8 months, as well. It is almst as if you have done no research on recovery time. Lack of research = not caring enough to do anything about it.
If this is your first inquiry into measures to help him heal, in eight months time, that would indicate both a lack of appreciation of the trauma and a lack of motivation. Just my take, but you do come off as rather unfeeling.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Arnold said:


> The stats seem to be that about 30% remain married and 70% of thise are unhappy. So, about a 9% chance of a happy marraige.


Yes I'm aware of the statistics and I believe that they are accurate. I also believe that the 9% group most likely received both individual and couple's counseling while the unhappy 21% did not.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Bryanp: since you keep mentioning it, yes, we've both been tested, and everything came back negative.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Arnold said:


> I think it is that "sexual awakening " deal, that you seem to take as a positve, despite admiting it keeps you and your H from connecting emotionally. It sounds as if it is a tradeoff that you are pleased with.
> 
> Perhaps it is the impatience after only 8 months, as well. It is almst as if you have done no research on recovery time. Lack of research = not caring enough to do anything about it.
> If this is your first inquiry into measures to help him heal, in eight months time, that would indicate both a lack of appreciation of the trauma and a lack of motivation. Just my take, but you do come off as rather unfeeling.


Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. Maybe I just didn't explain the sexual thing. I guess what I meant was that the sex in our marriage has improved 100 per cent, and in saying that I felt that we had move forward in that area. I guess I thought if the sex was great, then everything else would fall into place....I was wrong. Is it a trade off? I can't look at it that way, that's pretty selfish thinking really. 

I think I've done quite a bit of research, I've been lurking here since the beginning, but I didn't feel ready to post, and quite frankly you guys are pretty damn intimidating, which is not a bad thing, it really opened my eyes to the pain on the "other side".


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

morituri said:


> How did your husband find out about your affair? Who pursued who within your affair? How long was your affair? While in the affair, did you ever thought about leaving your husband for the as OM?


My husband found out about the affair through my emails to the OM, he always had access to everything I had. I always left my cell phone around, he had such blind trust in me. If only he had looked at my phone he would have seen it all right in front of him. 

The affair was short, three months. It was one of the people we had renovating our home. Although I take complete responsibility in saying yes, he pursued me with all the famous lines, everything I wanted to hear at the time. You see as my husband points out I was and still to a point very naive. It used to drive him crazy how I never saw a bad situation coming, or that people were manupulating me. On the other hand, it's what he loved about me so much.

While in the affair and thick into the "fog" I really thought I was so much happier than I had ever been. I was so blindsided my mixed emotions, and then guilt. I asked him to leave, which he did (he regrets not reading the 180). We did not fight after he left, he had full access to the kids, I did not ask him for a dime, I really thought if I wanted this, then I would do this alone. The Vallentine's day came, and I felt sick to my stomach over the pain I saw in his eyes, we talked and decided to make it work. I ended the affair on that day and never contacted the other person, although OM tried his best to try to manupulate me into continuing to see him "on the side". I gave my husband the address of OM, and he drove his house and sat out front while on the phone with me. I tried calming him down, he was in a rage. He walked up to the house and threw something OM had left at our house while working here. Not a good situation, the guy was so paranoid he wouldn't come out of his house, and cowardly phoned hubby and apologized for the whole thing. Did my husband feel better with the apology? for about 5 min. He had so many plans of how to ruin this guys life, he would come up with ways that would scare the **** out of me. In the end he walked away.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

morituri said:


> Yes I'm aware of the statistics and I believe that they are accurate. I also believe that the 9% group most likely received both individual and couple's counseling while the unhappy 21% did not.


Ahem
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't think you understand my point about putting your husband's health at risk for STD's. I am glad that everything came back fine. The point I have been trying to makeis that instead of using protection, you were willing to have unprotected sex with this OM thereby putting your husband at great risk for STD's. You dodged the bullet but the question remains for your husband why you did not use protection and why were you so willing to chance giving your husband an STD? I would think that your husband would think that you think so little of him and your marriage that you were not even willing to protect yourself and him from these things. I hope you understand my point now.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

TRy said:


> There is something cold in your posts that show a lack of empathy. You are trying, but you just cannot feel what you do not feel. I think that you are doing your best to understand but think that you need to seek IC to resolve this in yourself. If you see my past post you will see that this is the first time that I have ever recommended IC as I usually do not think that it is the answer.
> 
> I have hope for you. Good luck.


:iagree:

My thoughts exactly...I was just about to post this


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

working_together said:


> My husband found out about the affair through my emails to the OM, he always had access to everything I had. I always left my cell phone around, he had such blind trust in me. If only he had looked at my phone he would have seen it all right in front of him.
> 
> The affair was short, three months. * It was one of the people we had renovating our home.* Although I take complete responsibility in saying yes, he pursued me with all the famous lines, everything I wanted to hear at the time. You see as my husband points out I was and still to a point very naive. It used to drive him crazy how I never saw a bad situation coming, or that people were manupulating me. On the other hand, it's what he loved about me so much.


Stay classy...



> While in the affair and thick into the "fog" I really thought I was so much happier than I had ever been. I was so blindsided my mixed emotions, and then guilt. I asked him to leave, which he did (he regrets not reading the 180). We did not fight after he left, he had full access to the kids, I did not ask him for a dime, I really thought if I wanted *this, then I would do this alone. The Vallentine's day came, and I felt sick to my stomach over the pain I saw in his eyes*, we talked and decided to make it work. I ended the affair on that day and never contacted the other person, although OM tried his best to try to manupulate me into continuing to see him "on the side". I gave my husband the address of OM, and he drove his house and sat out front while on the phone with me. I tried calming him down, he was in a rage. He walked up to the house and threw something OM had left at our house while working here. Not a good situation, the guy was so paranoid he wouldn't come out of his house, and cowardly phoned hubby and apologized for the whole thing. Did my husband feel better with the apology? for about 5 min. He had so many plans of how to ruin this guys life, he would come up with ways that would scare the **** out of me. In the end he walked away.


Now I get the coldness in your posts(at least I think. This is not an attack). You are not as naive as your husband likes to believe. 

You got back because of the guilt and the pain you caused the husband or lose the life you were living and were used to. Not because you actually love him. Hence the indifference to the sex. You might want to notice that. You are back out of obligation. Does you family know about this? Did you family/friends play any role(even minor ) in you getting back with your husband? What 


Edit: What was the thought process when you were in the affair? That you would be separated or the affair was temporary thing? Did you hate/resent your husband when the fling was going on?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

working_together said:


> I'm just curious why you think I'm cold? and yes, I know I need to go back to IC.


Although there is a coldness throughout your posts two statements really stick out. The first is when you said that “I felt we really needed to talk about our needs, and not focus on the affair as much, which we have talked about to death”. The second is when you said “”I think being in my 40's and experiencing another lover awakened something in me that I'm exploring.” If I have to explain to you why these statements seem cold, that only proves my point.



working_together said:


> While in the affair and thick into the "fog" I really thought I was so much happier than I had ever been. I was so blindsided my mixed emotions, and then guilt. I asked him to leave, which he did (he regrets not reading the 180).


Most people at least claim to try to drop the affair when caught by their spouse. This gives the betrayed spouse at least some shred of dignity. When caught, you on the other hand told your husband of over 20 years to leave the house so that you could continue with the affair. Each day that he was out of the house he knew that you were with the other man. The pain that you knowingly inflicted on him in doing this must have been unbearable. It was a total and complete betrayal. 

Getting over any affair is hard enough. The fact that you continued the affair in his face makes it even harder to do so. He must really love you to even be willing to try. I for one do not think that I could. The raw coldness of your actions after he found out speaks volumes.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

morituri said:


> Yes I'm aware of the statistics and I believe that they are accurate. I also believe that the 9% group most likely received both individual and couple's counseling while the unhappy 21% did not.


Maybe, I do not know.That marriagebuilders site seems to take the position that counseling is a waste of time. Among other things they point to, they claim psychologists have a much higher than average divorce rate.
The guy I went to for Ic told me that he had about a 10% success rate in keeping marriages together. of course, he knew mine was kaput, so , maybe, he was just trying to make me feel better.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

This is true. I often point this out to folks when we talk about Tiger Woods' situation. Most people never seem to evven think about the fact that he was risking his wife's very life by engaing in the practices he was with the type of women he did. He could have very well left his kids without a mother.
Bryan makes a very good point. Although you claim a certain amount of naivete, you are articulalate and , obviously, intelligent. Clearly you were aware of the prevalence of STDs among the genreal population(it is quite staggeing). And, with decent powers of analysis, you , clearly, should have realized that the type of man you were with was not likely to have been a novice in this area.

Tell us, how do you reconcile being willing to risk you husband's life with being a caring person. That is very tough for me to understand.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Stay classy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never said I was some classy chick, I was a *****, I know that.

You have a valid point in regard to the obligation, yes, I felt I owed it to my marriage and my children to reconcile with my husband, I did not want to work on my marriage for my kids, but as a family. He's a great father no matter if we were together or not, I wouldn't want them to see us in a miserable marriage. My family is aware of the affair (except for my kids), those he didn't tell, I did myself. Did they play any role in my decision to return to my marriage? not at all, they knew it wasn't a perfect marriage, who's is?

During the affair I really didn't thing much of anything, just fed my selfish behavior. Did I think long term, sometimes, other times I was confused.

Before the affair I had a lot of resentment towards my husband, yes that's true. I didn't hater him though. He had a serious neck injury 15 years prior, and required suguries and physical therapy to overcome this. During this time I felt I was in the "caretaker" role while my own needs were not met. Again not the reason I had the affair, but possibly made it easier.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

TRy said:


> Although there is a coldness throughout your posts two statements really stick out. The first is when you said that “I felt we really needed to talk about our needs, and not focus on the affair as much, which we have talked about to death”. The second is when you said “”I think being in my 40's and experiencing another lover awakened something in me that I'm exploring.” If I have to explain to you why these statements seem cold, that only proves my point.
> 
> Most people at least claim to try to drop the affair when caught by their spouse. This gives the betrayed spouse at least some shred of dignity. When caught, you on the other hand told your husband of over 20 years to leave the house so that you could continue with the affair. Each day that he was out of the house he knew that you were with the other man. The pain that you knowingly inflicted on him in doing this must have been unbearable. It was a total and complete betrayal.
> 
> Getting over any affair is hard enough. The fact that you continued the affair in his face makes it even harder to do so. He must really love you to even be willing to try. I for one do not think that I could. The raw coldness of your actions after he found out speaks volumes.


I don't agree with your point that MOST people try to end the affair once caught, I think we all know they take it "underground", not trying to pat myself on the back, but I honestly put an end to it that day, and never looked back. I realize now how much my husband loves me, before...not so much, why else would he take me back?

When I said that I felt like we needed to discuss our "needs", I meant that we had already talked about every element of the affair, the lies, the betrayl, including all the painful details he needed to hear. I wanted to move forward and talk about what we wanted from our marriage and each other, and what I could do to protect us from this happening again. I wanted to get away from hearing the painful details thrown at me when he was at his angriest. It was not productive at that point, only hurtful for both of us.

Does this make sense?


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Arnold said:


> This is true. I often point this out to folks when we talk about Tiger Woods' situation. Most people never seem to evven think about the fact that he was risking his wife's very life by engaing in the practices he was with the type of women he did. He could have very well left his kids without a mother.
> Bryan makes a very good point. Although you claim a certain amount of naivete, you are articulalate and , obviously, intelligent. Clearly you were aware of the prevalence of STDs among the genreal population(it is quite staggeing). And, with decent powers of analysis, you , clearly, should have realized that the type of man you were with was not likely to have been a novice in this area.
> 
> Tell us, how do you reconcile being willing to risk you husband's life with being a caring person. That is very tough for me to understand.


I have no justification for my actions, including the possibility of infecting my husband with a life long disease. I took a horrible risk to my husband and myself.....totally agree. Does it make me less caring, don't think so.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Arnold said:


> This is true. I often point this out to folks when we talk about Tiger Woods' situation. Most people never seem to evven think about the fact that he was risking his wife's very life by engaing in the practices he was with the type of women he did. He could have very well left his kids without a mother.
> Bryan makes a very good point. Although you claim a certain amount of naivete, you are articulalate and , obviously, intelligent. Clearly you were aware of the prevalence of STDs among the genreal population(it is quite staggeing). And, with decent powers of analysis, you , clearly, should have realized that the type of man you were with was not likely to have been a novice in this area.
> 
> Tell us, how do you reconcile being willing to risk you husband's life with being a caring person. That is very tough for me to understand.


Yes, I am articulate, intelligent, and have a university degree. But does it mean that it helped me make good decisions? Does it make me "life smart"? I was so caught up with the affair that I wasn't thinking at all.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

This willingness to expose him to death, and the children to being without a dad, IMO, does say something about your ability to empathize.If you look at Tiger and his life, it is obvious he is NPD.
I am not asying you are, as , obviously, I have little info on you.
But, you must admit it is very hard to reconcile this willingness to endanger, with caring.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

working_together said:


> Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. Maybe I just didn't explain the sexual thing. *I guess what I meant was that the sex in our marriage has improved 100 per cent*, and in saying that I felt that we had move forward in that area. I guess I thought if the sex was great, then everything else would fall into place....I was wrong. Is it a trade off? I can't look at it that way, that's pretty selfish thinking really.
> 
> I think I've done quite a bit of research, I've been lurking here since the beginning, but I didn't feel ready to post, and quite frankly you guys are pretty damn intimidating, which is not a bad thing, it really opened my eyes to the pain on the "other side".



The better sex is most likely due to hysterical bonding. It wont last.

As you realize by now, even men need emotional bonding to have continual good meaningful sex. (I dont know if that your husband's emotional bond will be there in the future for you.)


As for us being intimidating, you appear to more than hold your own. I sense you are smarter than you let on. You're not as naive as you like us to think.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

I took a quick look at your posts. I think you have the main answer to your question. Time is what he needs now.

And the ability to have and show true deep remorse for the next few years?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

working_together said:


> I don't agree with your point that MOST people try to end the affair once caught, I think we all know they take it "underground"


I did not say that most "try" to end the affair, I said that most "claim" to end it. Big difference. 

I agree that some take in underground. They do this because they want to continue the affair but do not want to be in their spouse's face about it. Asking your husband to leave so that you could continue the affair, although more honest (if breaking your marriage vows when still married can be honest), it is also cold blooded and ruthless toward a person that has loved you for over 20 years.

I do not say this to hurt or insult you. I say this to try to explain to you the full damage that you have done so that you can better be able to do something about it. Although you seem to be trying, it appears to me that you still do not fully get it.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

aug said:


> The better sex is most likely due to hysterical bonding. It wont last.
> 
> As you realize by now, even men need emotional bonding to have continual good meaningful sex. (I dont know if that your husband's emotional bond will be there in the future for you.)
> 
> ...


Funny thing when we first R. there was no hysterical bonding initially, I think in the first few weeks he had so much rage and pain that he didn't seem to crave that need to bond. After several weeks, when the rage subsided he did experience the hysterical bonding. We both knew what it was as we had already done some research. I think you're right, it won't last. But knowing that element in our recovery, we can identify it when and if it becomes an issue and still go on and have a healthy sex life.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

TRy said:


> I did not say that most "try" to end the affair, I said that most "claim" to end it. Big difference.
> 
> I agree that some take in underground. They do this because they want to continue the affair but do not want to be in their spouse's face about it. Asking your husband to leave so that you could continue the affair, although more honest (if breaking your marriage vows when still married can be honest), it is also cold blooded and ruthless toward a person that has loved you for over 20 years.
> 
> I do not say this to hurt or insult you. I say this to try to explain to you the full damage that you have done so that you can better be able to do something about it. Although you seem to be trying, it appears to me that you still do not fully get it.


My husband said I was "cold blooded and ruthless", almost his exact words, I'm beginning to understand the extent of the damage that was caused by my mistake.

I don't take offense that easy, I am here to learn and repair my marriage. I am here to listen to others perspective and experience. I totally appreciate the feedback I've been given.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Arnold said:


> This willingness to expose him to death, and the children to being without a dad, IMO, does say something about your ability to empathize.If you look at Tiger and his life, it is obvious he is NPD.
> I am not asying you are, as , obviously, I have little info on you.
> But, you must admit it is very hard to reconcile this willingness to endanger, with caring.


I know I demonstrated little or no care for my husband during the affair, I was a heartless ***** to do what I did to him, I'm guilty of that. But I refuse to believe that I'm not caring person, I've devoted my entire career towards helping others. For that I will not agree, sorry. I don't like generalizations.


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## Darth Vader (Jan 2, 2011)

working_together said:


> My husband found out about the affair through my emails to the OM, he always had access to everything I had. I always left my cell phone around, he had such blind trust in me. If only he had looked at my phone he would have seen it all right in front of him.
> 
> The affair was short, three months. It was one of the people we had renovating our home. Although I take complete responsibility in saying yes, he pursued me with all the famous lines, everything I wanted to hear at the time. You see as my husband points out I was and still to a point very naive. It used to drive him crazy how I never saw a bad situation coming, or that people were manupulating me. On the other hand, it's what he loved about me so much.
> 
> While in the affair and thick into the "fog" I really thought I was so much happier than I had ever been. I was so blindsided my mixed emotions, and then guilt. I asked him to leave, which he did (he regrets not reading the 180). We did not fight after he left, he had full access to the kids, I did not ask him for a dime, I really thought if I wanted this, then I would do this alone. The Vallentine's day came, and I felt sick to my stomach over the pain I saw in his eyes, we talked and decided to make it work. I ended the affair on that day and never contacted the other person, although OM tried his best to try to manupulate me into continuing to see him "on the side". I gave my husband the address of OM, and he drove his house and sat out front while on the phone with me. I tried calming him down, he was in a rage. He walked up to the house and threw something OM had left at our house while working here. Not a good situation, the guy was so paranoid he wouldn't come out of his house, and cowardly phoned hubby and apologized for the whole thing. Did my husband feel better with the apology? for about 5 min. He had so many plans of how to ruin this guys life, he would come up with ways that would scare the **** out of me. In the end he walked away.


Talk about a HELL of a trigger! The whole house is a trigger! From your statements of "sexual awaking" means you had better orgasmic sex from _riding_ this OM, possibly in the home, now your husband knows about it too, I assume. HELL YES your husband has every right to be pissed! He should drop kick your ass!


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## Darth Vader (Jan 2, 2011)

working_together said:


> My husband said I was "cold blooded and ruthless", almost his exact words, I'm beginning to understand the extent of the damage that was caused by my mistake.
> 
> I don't take offense that easy, I am here to learn and repair my marriage. I am here to listen to others perspective and experience. I totally appreciate the feedback I've been given.


The affair is NO mistake, it's intenstional!


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Working, if you will read my posts, I am presently divorcing my cheating wife and I must admit that she has shown way more remorse than you have indicated here. If your husband were on TAM, I would advise him to begin divorce proceedings, for four reasons. 1. You will never understand the pain you have caused without suffering it yourself. You understand, intellectually, but not viscerally. 2.Your statements about your"sexual awakening", are hugely disrespectful of your husband. 3. you are a very selfish person, who has risked the futures of your husband and children for your own gratification. 4. You are still under the delusion that you are a good person, yet you lied, cheated, was uncaring, and disrespectful. Now.... read what I just typed.......Would YOU stay with somebody who acted like this? I'm not trying to be harsh, but to show you what you you have done, from the persective of a BH. I do not believe that you are marriage material, until you have addressed ALL of these issues. Not to your satisfaction, but to your husband's.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Also, devoting your career to "caring", isn't the same thing as feeling it yourself. DDuring your affair, You didn't care about your husband or children. Own it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Would YOU stay with somebody who acted like this? I'm not trying to be harsh, but to show you what you you have done, from the persective of a BH. I do not believe that you are marriage material, until you have addressed ALL of these issues. Not to your satisfaction, but to your husband's.


Or better yet, if your son or your daughter was telling you this about his/her wife, what would YOU advise them? It's one thing to see your BH hurt, it's quite another to see your child being hurt.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Working, if you will read my posts, I am presently divorcing my cheating wife and I must admit that she has shown way more remorse than you have indicated here. If your husband were on TAM, I would advise him to begin divorce proceedings, for four reasons. 1. You will never understand the pain you have caused without suffering it yourself. You understand, intellectually, but not viscerally. 2.Your statements about your"sexual awakening", are hugely disrespectful of your husband. 3. you are a very selfish person, who has risked the futures of your husband and children for your own gratification. 4. You are still under the delusion that you are a good person, yet you lied, cheated, was uncaring, and disrespectful. Now.... read what I just typed.......Would YOU stay with somebody who acted like this? I'm not trying to be harsh, but to show you what you you have done, from the persective of a BH. I do not believe that you are marriage material, until you have addressed ALL of these issues. Not to your satisfaction, but to your husband's.


No, I will never know the full extent of the pain my husband is suffering, I can't change this tho, only listen when he talks about his pain and show him that I am not the same person who was cruel and unloving while in an affair....I'm trying.

If the tables were turned, would I stay with a person who did this to me? I guess it would depend on a lot of things. 

I never said that during the affair I wasn't a liar, cheater, or uncaring, I was all of those things and worse. But does it mean that I am doomed forever to these qualities???? can a person not change?? I may have not yet done all the necessary work needed to make my husband feel loved and cared for, but sheesh, I'm trying, and it's a long road a head of me......I get that or at least starting to.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Or better yet, if your son or your daughter was telling you this about his/her wife, what would YOU advise them? It's one thing to see your BH hurt, it's quite another to see your child being hurt.


You make a valid point. I haven't really looked at it from that perspective. Actually, this has come up in our family with our oldest son who is 21. He came to me one morning crying and devastated to learn that his g/f of two years cheated on him. I really felt the pain and it killed me inside to know that I could not protect him from such a heart break. I also didn't advise him in terms of ending the relationship, but asked him what he wanted to do, and helped he reflect on whether it was a relationship worth salvaging. In the end, he did end it, and that was his choice. But yes, it was hard seeing him suffer in such pain for a long time as my son.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and you must realize that the pain of cheating on a 2 year unmarried relationship at age 19-21 pales in comparison to yours, right?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

It sounds like you are really trying now. I can only imagine how painful it was with your son so you now know to multiply that for your husband. I wish you luck.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

W_T, a betrayed spouse's personal recovery may take anywhere from 2 to 5 years IF he/she wants to remain married. Just like your husband's serious neck injury, his heart and soul have suffered a serious, traumatic injury caused by you. It will take a great deal of patience and understanding on your part when dealing his low days and he instinctively lashes out at you. So far you shown that you can take our virtual 2x4s but that is because we are strangers and you have no emotional investment in us. But do you believe you have what it takes (patience and understanding) to ride this out?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The OP is trying to be honest and open. She is also being judged by anonymous strangers on the internet. That shows that she is committed to fixing to it atleast on some level. But reading her posts makes me think that she never addressed the real issues behind the affair.

The more I read this thread the more I rage.. No decent human being would do that to their spouse.(She cheated and then asked him to leave). I do think that the husband was/is a doormat to some extent. (He left, took her back immediately)

I do feel that she won't(most probably) cheat again but she won't fix the marriage either .

One more question. You said you dropped it off immediately when you saw the pain. Did this coincide the time that you realized that the OM is not for you?. Maybe the OM is not that into you because the affair is open now and had other priorities. Or maybe he disgusted you when his real nature was out. Or when you realized the OM wasn't a viable prospective in any form. You also told him that you never contacted him again. Now realize that this is the guy who made you kick your husband out. So it wasn't something that was purely physical. But when you say that that you never contacted him, was it because you lost interest in him? Did you get back because you lost any interest in the OM?


Also W_T maybe you advised your son(if it was after the reconciliation) as such because you did not think that the affair was a bad decision.



Edit: Wait, what? W_T had sex with the OM in her house? That is [email protected]$ked up in so many levels.


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## Haz (Aug 24, 2011)

Working:

I find this tale peculiarly compelling. I think you are trying, but I, like others here, think you are not getting it, that you are somehow blocked emotionally from the enormity of this. I want to try to get at why that might be.

What I get from the tone of your posts is not so much coldness as strength, and enormous pride in that strength. You are a together women, an awakened and empowered woman, an intelligent and educated woman. You did this. You experienced the ups and the downs. You decided to take a lover, you decided your husband would leave, you decided to end it. You now want to know how to fix it. You are the only actor in your story.

Why are you and your husband reconciling, then? Why are you content to live in a marriage where you are the only actor? Why is he willing to stay in a relationship in which his life has been acted upon with such ruthlessness?

There are a couple of possibilities. The first is simply that you are just far more powerful in this relationship. You did this because you wanted to. A contractor came on to you and you went for it. You cry about manipulation, but that clashes with everything you have said about yourself. It's crap, and you need to cut it out. You did this because you wanted it, you wanted the awakening, and part of you is still proud that you experienced that awakening.

Then you threw your husband out of the house. Again, you exercised the power in a way that you are proud of--you didn't skulk around, you acted openly and honestly. You see this as virtuous (This is the most appalling part of what you have written). You never considered leaving the house yourself--what a surrender of power that would have been! Though you have not said it, I am going to assume that you had sex with the OM in your home, and perhaps while your children were present asleep. (Feel free to contradict me, it doesn't change much) It must have given you a rush to assert such ownership of your home and your life. Then you decided to reconcile. Again the decision was entirely in your hands. You seem never to have doubted that you could go back to your husband whenever you wanted to.

Why did you do it? Pity? For the kids? There is nothing that you have written that indicates that love dawned upon you. You have not expressed love or attraction to your husband in any of this. I suspect that you simply decided that it was time to become a good woman again, time to take your awakening, and your family, and your identity as a virtuous woman, and put them magically together.

Only the magic isn't proving powerful enough. The alchemy is incomplete. And you want to know what you can do, what spell you can learn to make it all go back together seamlessly.

In short, Working, you are a ****ing mess! And as is so often the case, it is your strength, your most prized asset, that is working against you.

So now let's look at your husband. Why is he still there? There are two possibilities. The first is that he is just a weak man, that he is dependent, that there is a power imbalance in your relationship that is just there and is not going to go away. You were stronger than him, and that's all there is to that.

If that is the case, then it is going to be hard for you to look at this from his end. How can you? You aren't weak. You cannot imagine being weak. You cannot imagine having this behavior being inflicted on you--you would never let it happen. He did let it happen--if only he had looked at your cell phone, it was all there to see. It is his fault he was weak, not yours that you were strong.

It is possible that you will find that you cannot live with a weak man, that the itch to awaken will come upon you again, and you will do this all over again.

It is also possible that you will learn to live in this unequal relationship, but doing so will mean internalizing a different set of ethics in which strength does not justify the exercise of power over your partner, but rather creates a moral obligation to act with gentleness and self restraint. And if you are to grow into that new ethical person, you are going to have to look through that ethical lens at what a ****ing monster you have been. You are going to have to look at all of the ways that you have exulted in your power and how you have used that power. And you have not even begun to do that here.

It is also possible that your husband is not weak, that he was never weak, but that he simply loves you unconditionally and unreservedly. That he is hanging in even though his soul has been laid waste. He would like to somehow blend the best of what you see in yourself with your new passion and his love of his family, but pain, and whatever shreds of pride he has left, and the most fundamental instincts of self preservation are holding him back. And if you allow yourself to feel the purity of his love, and to contemplate how you have treated the gift of that love, if you truly take it in, it will break you. Your strength and your pride and everything that you believe about yourself and have expressed in your messages here will dissolve and you will be left to build yourself anew.

And I think you know it and it scares the **** out of you.

Good luck. You are going to need it.

Haz


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

I think succumbing to the Dark Side is more appropriate than awakening.


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## shazam (Nov 7, 2011)

Have you talked to your son? I'm wondering if his trust in women is shot now? His gf cheated, then you did. I mean most guys hold their mom's to a higher standard, idk something to consider.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

As a BS I'd like to point out some of the things you have said that have triggered me.

1) So I know I have to work more on reassuring him that I know it bothers him that I'm going to certain places, *but he also wants me to go out and have a good time.*; let me assure you he _does not_ want you to go out and have a good time, he wants you to stay home and show you are committed to your M, not your friends, etc.

2) I felt we really needed to *talk about our needs*, and not focus on the affair as much, which we have talked about to death; I'm sorry but_ your M will have nothing to do with your needs for a long long time_, it should be all about him.

3) *not feel at times disgusted with my behavior*; Never going to happen, he _will always_ feel disgusted over this behavior.

4) I always left my cell phone around,* he had such blind trust in me. If only he had looked at my phone he would have seen it all right in front of him*; you sound almost like you blame him for not finding out sooner, blind trust is a gift, one I assure you that he will never again bestow upon you a 100%.

5) my husband points out *I was and still to a point very naive*. It used to drive him crazy *how I never saw a bad situation coming, or that people were manupulating me*; this is a big one for me, my exh used the same line. "I never saw it coming", really at what point when you were taking off each others clothes did you not think something wrong was happening, nobody can make somebody do something. Just the fact alone that you think this man manipulated you shows that you do not acknowledge responsibility for your part in the A. You weren't naive when you went back for seconds, you knew exactly what was going to happen.

6) I really thought if I wanted this, *then I would do this alone*; something you should have done before you slept with the OM the first time.

7) I had a lot of resentment towards my husband, yes that's true. I didn't hater him though. He had a serious neck injury 15 years prior, and required suguries and physical therapy to overcome this. During this time I felt I was in the "caretaker" role while *my own needs were not met. Again not the reason I had the affair, but possibly made it easier*; it's just an excuse, remember the vows? In sickness and in health?

8) I never said that during the affair I wasn't a liar, cheater, or uncaring, I was all of those things and worse. But *does it mean that I am doomed forever to these qualities*???? can a person not change??; sadly the truth is yes you are doomed. He will most likely always have doubts about your intentions, honesty, integrity and faithfulness. My exh said the other week, "why don't you trust me, I would never do anything to hurt the kids" I told him I don't trust him because he has proven to me otherwise. As BS's we learn to keep our guard up, our trust and nativity got the best of us once, and we learned a hard lesson. Many BS's here who have successfully reconciled have not recovered 100%.

I mean none of the above as an attack, just trying to point out the things you say that trigger me, in the hopes that they may better help you relate and heal your H. I would also recommend a book called How to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda J. MacDonald M. S. 

Curious to know if any of your family and friends know of your infidelity? And if not, why not?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I too feel that the OP is an intelligent, empowered, confident woman, it's too bad she doesn't possess humility, affection, and integrity to go along with her other good qualities. Tell me, would you be willing to submit yourself to your husband? In ALL things he would feel are important to him? I think that your pride and selfishness will always come before your marriage. As far as being naive, that is simply a lie. As another poster said, when you were stripping to f**k the OM, didn't you feel that this might be a bad idea for a married woman to be doing? We are here to help you, but you should, at least, try to be as honest with us as you can.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Also, devoting your career to "caring", isn't the same thing as feeling it yourself. DDuring your affair, You didn't care about your husband or children. Own it.


Didn't I say that?


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

bryanp said:


> It sounds like you are really trying now. I can only imagine how painful it was with your son so you now know to multiply that for your husband. I wish you luck.


Thanks Bryanp, appreciate your words, I was starting to cringe when I'd see your name.....lol


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Working, it's one thing to say it, but another to FEEL it. In none of your posts, have I gotten that you are feeling anything like my STBex wife's pain and remorse. She would and has gotten on her knees to BEG forgiveness. You, on the other hand , still seem as prideful and remorseless, as when you had the affair. Your lack of respect for your husband , AS A MAN, comes through in your posts. Either he is a really good man, or a really weak one. The point I am trying to make is that you need to fix you. I cannot see how you can have a good marriage until you really FEEL the heartbreak and pain your husband is feeling. This empathy is crucial to reconciliation, in my opinion.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

So, I guess that in answer to your original question, "what more can I do?" I would have to say that you have already done so much to ruin your family, that anything you do to atone , will be unsuccessful, because of your own personality and issues. You should divorce your husband so that You can go into counseling to try to understand why you are so cruel and careless with the emotions of your family. I truly hope, for your sake , that someday you will be able to have the depth of feeling , respect for others, and integrity to become a good wife. If you had possessed these qualities, before, you would not be here, now.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> The OP is trying to be honest and open. She is also being judged by anonymous strangers on the internet. That shows that she is committed to fixing to it atleast on some level. But reading her posts makes me think that she never addressed the real issues behind the affair.
> 
> The more I read this thread the more I rage.. No decent human being would do that to their spouse.(She cheated and then asked him to leave). I do think that the husband was/is a doormat to some extent. (He left, took her back immediately)
> 
> ...


Who said I had sex with the OM in my house??? 

No, my interaction with OM was not purely physical, of course it was emotional. He said everything I wanted to hear at the time, something I felt I wasn't getting at the time. Did I get tired of him? drop him just like that? I pulled away from him while my husband and I were separated, he knew I was going back to my marriage. I just realized that it wouldn't have lasted with my guilt towards my husband and the pain I saw in his eyes when he would pick up our kids for the weekend. I knew that I would have to be alone for a while before starting a new relationship. Did it work out that way? no, hubby and I R. far too soon, where we should have worked on some issues first. We both wanted to get our family back together, probably too soon.

The incident with my son was 2 years prior to my affair.


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Hi there, 

Firstly I want to say that you sound like my husband did when he had his affair.......he was able to just separate the affair and the emotional side of things.........but they will not work for your betrayed husband, I know for me I felt like I lost my life and everything I have believed and trusted in I have also been married for 24 years, it is the last thing we thought our spouses could do to us, because we figured after 20 some odd years we would have at least gained respect from our spouses, to find out that wasn't true has devastated us...............
After you are in a marriage that long it does identify one to a degree, if we aren't married what are we now........what do we believe in, what can we trust in..........
you treated your husband worse than you would have a stranger or someone you hated.........
You couldn't have done anything more painful for him, because he believed in you and what you had together and the life you two had built together ...........gone for him.
We as betrayed spouses question our own self worth and self esteem blaming ourselves if things had only been different and then there is the physical attractiveness we now question and our sex lives now are forever compared to someone else......
We are angry we didn't have a choice as to how our lives would play out, as wayward spouses you took our lives and ripped it apart and left us with the pieces for your own selfish needs......
We had a right to have a conversation with the person we spend 20 some odd years with whether this would happen to our lives.....no consideration you just did what you wanted to do......
We now question everything because we don't know what to trust anymore or what is real and what we can believe in, it's like waiting for the next bus to come along and run us over.
It doesn't take us much to get to that questioning place again, we are highly sensitive to every word and every action......

My husband and I are also trying to recover but I will tell you the only reason I can get to that is because of him and his attitude and his openness and honesty now........we doesn't let me feel any doubt he is proactive with everything he does, goes and says.........
There are lot of triggers for me and he avoids them at all costs and if they happen, he holds me and tells me that part of him is over and I have nothing to fear any more and he will spend the rest of his life making it up to me, he is scheduling holidays for us every 6 months or so, is organzing a renewal of our marriage vows and has done nothing but making sure I am alright, he just says if I am happy he will be, he doesn't worry about himself any longer.........he says all he needs is for me to smile. It takes humility and remorse everyday for however long it takes, you meet all your husband's emotional needs and make him fall madly in love with you again, 
affection
sexual fullfilment
converstion
admiration 
family support
financial support 
recreational companionship
open and honesty

do little things for him, non sexual contact all day long......
words and reassurance all the time.......
right now forget about you, that will come when he is madly in love again, fix what you broke.......
that is your job now....


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

working_together said:


> Who said I had sex with the OM in my house???


I'm glad you cleared that up. But please realize that many wives who were cheating on their husbands, did use the marital home and bed to have sex with their OM while their husbands were away. As someone said, the house itself becomes a huge trigger to the betrayed husband and makes it much more difficult for him to recover.



> I knew that I would have to be alone for a while before starting a new relationship. Did it work out that way? no, hubby and I R. far too soon, where we should have worked on some issues first. We both wanted to get our family back together, probably too soon.


It is extremely hard to work on marital issues if the two spouses are separated. The more time spent away from each other, the harder it becomes to reconcile. Even your husband could have ended up having an affair of his own while the two of you were separated. That would have definitely complicated things and made it harder for the two of you to reconcile. But even if that didn't happen, there was the danger of him growing accustomed to living away from you and not wanting to go back to you even if you wanted him badly.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Jessi, I disagree with you. The OP isn't able to feel the pain she has caused, so any attempt to "make her husband fall in love with her again", will fail, until she can truly understand who she really is, and why she acted as she did.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

"I just realized that it wouldn't have lasted with my guilt towards my husband and the pain I saw in his eyes when he would pick up our kids for the weekend. I knew that I would have to be alone for a while before starting a new relationship. Did it work out that way? no, hubby and I R. far too soon, where we should have worked on some issues first. We both wanted to get our family back together, probably too soon."

I think the problem with the above statement the OP made is that the word LOVE isn't in her explanation. 

She went back to her husband because of her guilt and because she wanted her family back. Not because she loves her husband. My feeling is that if she loved her husband, she wouldn't have cheated on him. Without love, their reconciliation is doomed.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Morituri, You know of my situation. Does it appear to you that the OP is remorseful? Like my wife was/is? She ( OP) understands , intellectually, what she has done, but doesn't feel the pain she has caused. In my opinion, with this ability to empathize, there is no true remorse. What she is feeling is guilt, which is selfish, not remorse, which is selfless.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> "I just realized that it wouldn't have lasted with my guilt towards my husband and the pain I saw in his eyes when he would pick up our kids for the weekend. I knew that I would have to be alone for a while before starting a new relationship. Did it work out that way? no, hubby and I R. far too soon, where we should have worked on some issues first. We both wanted to get our family back together, probably too soon."
> 
> I think the problem with the above statement the OP made is that the word LOVE isn't in her explanation.
> 
> She went back to her husband because of her guilt and because she wanted her family back. Not because she loves her husband. My feeling is that if she loved her husband, she wouldn't have cheated on him. Without love, their reconciliation is doomed.


Very good point, SSIA. The word "love", is conspicuously missing from her posts.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Morituri, You know of my situation. Does it appear to you that the OP is remorseful? She understands , intellectually, what she has done, but doesn't feel the pain she has caused. In my opinion, with this ability to empathize, there is no true remorse. What she is feeling is guilt, which is selfish, not remorse, which is selfless.


Badblood, keep in mind that she has no emotional investment in us so it is easy for her to make comments in an emotionally detached fashion. We have no idea how she behaved/behaves in front of her husband. Besides what good is the 'on her hands and knees' type of remorse if the cheating wife continues contacting the OM as it was in your case? You more than anyone else know that actions are what really count, nothing else matters.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Very good point, SSIA. The word "love", is conspicuously missing from her posts.


Even if she had said that she wanted to reconcile because she loved her husband, many of us would have blasted her anyway by saying that her actions proved otherwise. So she is damned if she did, damned if she didn't.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

morituri said:


> Badblood, keep in mind that she has no emotional investment in us so it is easy for her to make comments in an emotionally detached fashion. We have no idea how she behaved/behaves in front of her husband. Besides what good is the 'on her hands and knees' type of remorse if the cheating wife continues contacting the OM as it was in your case? You more than anyone else know that actions are what really count, nothing else matters.



not only that but she came here asking what to do to help her help her husband- to me, those actions are a true sign of remorse

is she there 100% yet? probably not but she's taking big steps toward great self-improvement and while I have no problem debating particular parts of what she says and trying to teach her, I think her intentions are good and what's needed for her and her husband to heal


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Maybe she did stay for the wrong reasons but when you are coming out of an affair you are in a affair fog and your real thinking isn't there yet.......so I say this is a good enough place to start rebuilding and meeting each others needs, the falling in love and being there for the right reasons will come.....
For her when the fog is total gone and she now is thinking more about her husband than herself or the OM, things will get better, but I agree the justifications the rug sweeping and the blame shifting stops and she becomes all about him and his recovery, it is about his recovery not hers.........
She will have to do the heavy lifting for a while if she truly regrets what her actions have caused her husband and marriage.......
It won't work any other way.........
I agree she is asking for help because she doesn't know how to fix what she broke, I agree she seems a little "me" orinatated. But she is trying to fix that logically she understands the situation and the pain she has caused her husband.....and the affair was just a bail on her part. In good times and bad times hasn't come into play for her yet.........
I hope she starts to fill all his emotional needs and just is soft and sweet with him every day, every minute, if she does this he will fall madly in love like he was the day he married her, she will as well and then she will understand just how damaging her thinking was in the marriage........
She has to start somewhere, fake it until you feel it..........
Just do the right things and love will find her and her husband.........


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Morituri, I agree that her actions are paramount, but that includes ALL of her actions. The sheer enormity of her disrespect and callousness regarding her husband and family makes her suspect , as to her true motive for R. To cheat, and then kick her husband out of his home, is about the worst thing I've heard of, on TAM. So NOW she is trying to R? I don't see how she can possibly show love and respect and caring for her family, after such horrible disrespect, and selfish behavior. It's not like a light switch, you can't turn it on or off at a whim. I feel that she has serious issues to address BEFORE any attempt at R should be made, and in the interim, her husband and family should have the right to accept or reject her, as THEY choose. Like my own wife, she has forfeited any rights in the marriage, that I or her husband do not choose to give her.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Jessi, hasn't there been enough dishonesty? "Fake it until you feel it", is just another lie. Doesn't her husband and family deserve the truth? This is what I meant about her motives for Reconciliation. She isn't in love with her husband, she desires another man, she wants to explore her newfound sexuality, she cold-bloodedly threw away the love and respect of , not only, her husband , but her children, as well. So NOW she wants to reconcile, not for her kids, or for her husband, but through guilt and for her own selfish Reasons. If I were her husband or kids, I would feel like an afterthought, that I didn't matter.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

No doubt about it Badblood that her actions towards her husband while in the affair were appalling, she herself has acknowledged it as she has accepted the truth that she needs to seek individual counseling.

But stop and think about this for a minute. Isn't it better that a cheating wife want to reconcile with her husband not out of fear of losing him but because she truly wants to be with him and to help him heal even if that means the end of her marriage later on?

Besides, her husband has chosen to reconcile with her because he loves her enough to give her a second chance. Something to consider.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

As far as we can tell working_together has been open and honest with us and expressed a desire to reconcile her marriage . Advice on what to do to help her reconciliation is being sought. She has chosen to take a route that she knows is difficult to follow and I see no reason why productive advice should not be given to assist in the recovery of her relationship with her husband 

Sorry a bit of a thread jack
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

To me, Morituri, it is further evidence of duplicity. Does her husband know about her desire for the OM, about the "sexual awakening", about the reasons for her desire for R? If she TRULY is remorseful, then she should invite him to TAM, to read this thread, and listen to other BS's.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Badblood said:


> To me, Morituri, it is further evidence of duplicity. Does her husband know about her desire for the OM, about the "sexual awakening", about the reasons for her desire for R? If she TRULY is remorseful, then she should invite him to TAM, to read this thread, and listen to other BS's.


That's actually a good point to make, I would hope that she has been completely forthright in her feelings and thoughts, while at the same time not assessing blame on her husband. But that's part of the advice she asking for- what can she do and it's a valid opinion to point out to her


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> As far as we can tell working_together has been open and honest with us and expressed a desire to reconcile her marriage . Advice on what to do to help her reconciliation is being sought. She has chosen to take a route that she knows is difficult to follow and I see no reason why productive advice should not be given to assist in the recovery of her relationship with her husband
> 
> Sorry a bit of a thread jack
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree, Eli-Zor, but I feel that it is important, for us to be able to help her, to know what her motives for R are. We cannot give her any advice withou as much knowledge as we can get, and having our questions answered. On my thread, I appreciated ALL posts, whether they agreed with my choices or not. Frankly, I do not believe she is being honest with us. She contradicts herself and blame shifts a lot.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Working, it's one thing to say it, but another to FEEL it. In none of your posts, have I gotten that you are feeling anything like my STBex wife's pain and remorse. She would and has gotten on her knees to BEG forgiveness. You, on the other hand , still seem as prideful and remorseless, as when you had the affair. Your lack of respect for your husband , AS A MAN, comes through in your posts. Either he is a really good man, or a really weak one. The point I am trying to make is that you need to fix you. I cannot see how you can have a good marriage until you really FEEL the heartbreak and pain your husband is feeling. This empathy is crucial to reconciliation, in my opinion.


You have a point in terms of "pride", yes, I do have a lot of pride, it's difficult for me to show my weaknesses, my husband has pointed this out to me. It also comes into play when he wants to see more of my emotional side, when it does come through, he basically melts. He's not a "weak" man, in fact is really a tough guy, in your face sometimes. With me, yes, he's softer, and has let me make mistakes and forgiven me unconditionally.

Does this mean I should get down on my knees and beg his forgiveness, it's not who I am, I'm not trying to sound cold, but I would prefer that he see the genuine me the way I am most comfortable.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Is the 'genuine' you a cheater? 

You did this, even though it's not who you are.

Getting down on your knees and begging forgiveness is something you must do. Whether it is the genuine you or not. It will mean even more to him if you can feel this kind of remorse and show him it, because he knows how difficult it would be for you.

You need to express your remorse for hurting him and also your love for him. Don't expect him to just know. You need to show through your actions, whether it is the 'genuine' you or not.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Morituri, You know of my situation. Does it appear to you that the OP is remorseful? Like my wife was/is? She ( OP) understands , intellectually, what she has done, but doesn't feel the pain she has caused. In my opinion, with this ability to empathize, there is no true remorse. What she is feeling is guilt, which is selfish, not remorse, which is selfless.


I read your story, just wondering why if she was so remourseful, you didn't R. Was it not enough?


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Morituri, I agree that her actions are paramount, but that includes ALL of her actions. The sheer enormity of her disrespect and callousness regarding her husband and family makes her suspect , as to her true motive for R. To cheat, and then kick her husband out of his home, is about the worst thing I've heard of, on TAM. So NOW she is trying to R? I don't see how she can possibly show love and respect and caring for her family, after such horrible disrespect, and selfish behavior. It's not like a light switch, you can't turn it on or off at a whim. I feel that she has serious issues to address BEFORE any attempt at R should be made, and in the interim, her husband and family should have the right to accept or reject her, as THEY choose. Like my own wife, she has forfeited any rights in the marriage, that I or her husband do not choose to give her.


You've gotta be kidding me with your comment about "worst thing on TAM" or Just about. Have you not read all the stories on here, I was a lot of things for sure, but I was not ****ing him under my husband's roof and he was never in the same place. Did I lie, and take my affair underground? no, did I fight the urge to contact him one more time to tell him that it was over, yes, and "I hope he understands", no, when it was done, it was done.

Yes, I do love my husband.

Btw, I love the debates on here. lol


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

always_hopefull said:


> As a BS I'd like to point out some of the things you have said that have triggered me.
> 
> 1) So I know I have to work more on reassuring him that I know it bothers him that I'm going to certain places, *but he also wants me to go out and have a good time.*; let me assure you he _does not_ want you to go out and have a good time, he wants you to stay home and show you are committed to your M, not your friends, etc.
> 
> ...


All my friends and family know of my affair, I had no say in the matter, and did not fight that. Friends and family will forgive easier than marriage partners.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> I agree, Eli-Zor, but I feel that it is important, for us to be able to help her, to know what her motives for R are. We cannot give her any advice withou as much knowledge as we can get, and having our questions answered. On my thread, I appreciated ALL posts, whether they agreed with my choices or not. Frankly, I do not believe she is being honest with us. She contradicts herself and blame shifts a lot.


If I have not been honest then you are free to debate with me further on this, and ask me anything you want, chances are, that I will answer you, but let up on the attacking so I can really hear what you are saying, and not just your anger or bitterness.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> Is the 'genuine' you a cheater?
> 
> You did this, even though it's not who you are.
> 
> ...


By "genuine" I meant the real me, the person who he knows, if I got down on my hands and knees, he would know it was fake, and I'm not that kinda gal, he would much prefer that I take actions that are part of who I am....Make sense?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

working_together said:


> By "genuine" I meant the real me, the person who he knows, if I got down on my hands and knees, he would know it was fake, and I'm not that kinda gal, he would much prefer that I take actions that are part of who I am....Make sense?


maybe he would prefer that you change some of the genuine you? after all the genuine you cheated on him


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

working_together said:


> By "genuine" I meant the real me, the person who he knows, if I got down on my hands and knees, he would know it was fake, and I'm not that kinda gal, he would much prefer that I take actions that are part of who I am....Make sense?


I guess it makes sense .... not very flattering for you.

You are able to cheat on your husband! (genuine you)

You aren't able to get down on your knees and ask him for forgiveness! (genuine you)

Whether you like it or not, this is how your husband is viewing you.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

Working Together, the biggest problem you have standing in the way of recovery is that you cannot truly empathize with your BH. You can never feel the pain that your affair caused. I believe that the more a WS can understand the level of the destruction they caused, the better the chance at reconciliation.

You talk about being the “genuine” you. The truth is that the kind of pain you dished out fundamentally changes the nature of the one hurt. I have never cried a day in my adult life, but when I discovered my WW’s affair, I cried like a baby for days. If you every get close to understanding the hurt you caused, you may be able to humble yourself and it just might break some of your pride. I would guess that this is what your BH is looking for.

I do think that you are genuine in your desire to recover your marriage. But, the heavy work falls on you. You have to do everything in your power to help your BH recover from the trauma you have caused. Until that happens, it doesn’t matter what was missing in your marriage that left you vulnerable to lowering your boundaries and having an affair. Try to show him every day, in every way possible, that you are committed to doing everything in your power to establish and enforce personal boundaries to prevent this from ever happening again. Also, let him grieve and just be there to help him. Don’t make excuses and let him know that his feelings are valid. The best thing you could ever say to him, when he is angry or hurt is that you understand, that this is all your fault and that he has every right to feel what he’s feeling.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

working_together said:


> By "genuine" I meant the real me, the person who he knows, if I got down on my hands and knees, he would know it was fake, and I'm not that kinda gal, he would much prefer that I take actions that are part of who I am....Make sense?


I think the one thing that you really need to understand is that your H is probably second guessing everything he knows about you. You are no longer the faithful loving wife and mother to his children, yet a stranger, who in many ways resembles her and acts as a daily reminder for what he has lost. He has no clue what kinda gal you are anymore.

I myself think that while you do not fit the general idea of a remorseful spouse, you are remorseful. If you weren't intent on reconnecting with your H I don't think you would keep coming back here.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

working_together said:


> I read your story, just wondering why if she was so remourseful, you didn't R. Was it not enough?


You remind me a lot of her. She, too, was an intelligent, independent, degreed person, but that didn't prevent her from cheating, lying, and disrespecting me, did it? She violated the conditions I set for recovery. Her remorse was false like yours is.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> Badblood said:
> 
> 
> > To me, Morituri, it is further evidence of duplicity. Does her husband know about her desire for the OM, about the "sexual awakening", about the reasons for her desire for R? *If she TRULY is remorseful, then she should invite him to TAM, to read this thread, and listen to other BS's.*
> ...


That is wise counsel gentlemen.

*Badblood, in my situation the 'hysterically crying on her hands and knees' that my ex-wife displayed to me on D-day seemed extremely hypocritically self-serving to me because it came from fear of losing me and not out of love to let me go.*. My view was that as soon as her fear subsided she would be again her 'normal' self. If she had shown me a remorse born from love of letting me go and not of fear of losing me, then just maybe it would have been what I needed for my personal healing and just maybe would have allowed me to consider giving our marriage another chance instead of me choosing to file for divorce.

Working_Together, have you offered your husband, in a kind and loving fashion, to let him go if reconciliation proves too much of a burden for him? Have you offered him a post-nuptial agreement to appease any concerns he might have regarding his financial health after a divorce? These are things that you should consider.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

working_together said:


> You have a point in terms of "pride", yes, I do have a lot of pride, it's difficult for me to show my weaknesses, my husband has pointed this out to me. It also comes into play when he wants to see more of my emotional side, when it does come through, he basically melts. He's not a "weak" man, in fact is really a tough guy, in your face sometimes. With me, yes, he's softer, and has let me make mistakes and forgiven me unconditionally.
> 
> Does this mean I should get down on my knees and beg his forgiveness, it's not who I am, I'm not trying to sound cold, but I would prefer that he see the genuine me the way I am most comfortable.


"I would prefer", "I am most comfortable", I, me, my ......do you EVER think of others? My heart goes out to your husband and kids, they will always be second and third in you heart....right after yourself. You are without doubt, the most selfish WS I have seen on TAM. I predict future unhappiness and drama for your family. You only care about them when it suits you to do so. I'm sorry, this thread is depressing. This OP will never "get it", as far as the hurt she has caused and the damage she has done. Her self image will not allow her to do so. To her, this is an intellectual exercise. Of deep emotional remorse, she has none and never will have. I'm gone.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I am sorry, Working. I am neither angry or bitter, just sad that you are so selfish and uncaring, and that you will never FEEL. You don't know what your missing. Goodbye and I wish your family luck, you will need it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

working_together said:


> You make a valid point. I haven't really looked at it from that perspective. Actually, this has come up in our family with our oldest son who is 21. He came to me one morning crying and devastated to learn that his g/f of two years cheated on him. I really felt the pain and it killed me inside to know that I could not protect him from such a heart break. I also didn't advise him in terms of ending the relationship, but asked him what he wanted to do, and helped he reflect on whether it was a relationship worth salvaging. In the end, he did end it, and that was his choice. But yes, it was hard seeing him suffer in such pain for a long time as my son.


Wow, awkward. How could you, a cheater, advise him on properly dealing with another cheater like yourself? Wow. At least he did the smart thing and dump her. Was that your advice, or did you think the like you the cheaters actually deserve a chance?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Wow, awkward. How could you, a cheater, advise him on properly dealing with another cheater like yourself? Wow. At least he did the smart thing and dump her. Was that your advice, or did you think the like you the cheaters actually deserve a chance?


Shaggy, her advice was given 2 years BEFORE she cheated on her husband.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I see the problem you husband is facing now - when you got caught, and he confronted - you kicked him out, and you chose to keep seeing the OM.

Your husband had his soul crushed by you, and he was humiliated to his family, friends, and Children. He wasn't man enough to keep his wife, she decided to toss him out of him own home and to keep the OM in her life.

Then after a while, out of guilt you threw him a cookie and let him try his life on again. I'm guessing he is constantly looking over his shoulder waiting for it to happen again.

Wow. Is he getting a lot of counseling to try and rebuild any sense of self worth he might have left inside? 

How do his children treat him - after you tossed him and after he was allowed back by you? I'm, yes they probably offered their support to him, but did they continue to look at him with respect?


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Wow, awkward. How could you, a cheater, advise him on properly dealing with another cheater like yourself? Wow. At least he did the smart thing and dump her. Was that your advice, or did you think the like you the cheaters actually deserve a chance?


My son's issues with infidelity happened 2 years before my affair, and like I thought I had already said, I did not "advise" him, I would never do that, he needed to make this choice on his own. I needed to be there for him, to show that I was there to listen to his pain. I felt sick that this happened to him, we have a great relationship, I'm glad he came to me for support.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> I see the problem you husband is facing now - when you got caught, and he confronted - you kicked him out, and you chose to keep seeing the OM.
> 
> Your husband had his soul crushed by you, and he was humiliated to his family, friends, and Children. He wasn't man enough to keep his wife, she decided to toss him out of him own home and to keep the OM in her life.
> 
> ...


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> "I would prefer", "I am most comfortable", I, me, my ......do you EVER think of others? My heart goes out to your husband and kids, they will always be second and third in you heart....right after yourself. You are without doubt, the most selfish WS I have seen on TAM. I predict future unhappiness and drama for your family. You only care about them when it suits you to do so. I'm sorry, this thread is depressing. This OP will never "get it", as far as the hurt she has caused and the damage she has done. Her self image will not allow her to do so. To her, this is an intellectual exercise. Of deep emotional remorse, she has none and never will have. I'm gone.


You don't know me as a mother, my kids have always come first in my life, something my husband has always been jealous of. I'm actually trying to make more of an effort of making my husband a priority.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

morituri said:


> That is wise counsel gentlemen.
> 
> *Badblood, in my situation the 'hysterically crying on her hands and knees' that my ex-wife displayed to me on D-day seemed extremely hypocritically self-serving to me because it came from fear of losing me and not out of love to let me go.*. My view was that as soon as her fear subsided she would be again her 'normal' self. If she had shown me a remorse born from love of letting me go and not of fear of losing me, then just maybe it would have been what I needed for my personal healing and just maybe would have allowed me to consider giving our marriage another chance instead of me choosing to file for divorce.
> 
> Working_Together, have you offered your husband, in a kind and loving fashion, to let him go if reconciliation proves too much of a burden for him? Have you offered him a post-nuptial agreement to appease any concerns he might have regarding his financial health after a divorce? These are things that you should consider.


We've talked about this, he's told me during the times he has had triggers that he wonders if it's "ever going to work". I've tried to be loving and tell him that the pain may be too great for him, and that in a couple of years it may not work out. He's finally said that he feels that I would never do this to him again, I hope it's because I've done my best to prove this to him. Neither of us want to give up at this point.

We're not loaded, we're living on social work salaries. lol. I'm fairly independent, and wouldn't take anything from him. I would only ask that he help with kids activities, nothing else.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

working - 

I hope you do succeed in your goal to make your new marriage work. From what you have written, it is clear that after 25 years your husband had his world destroyed. I'm sorry, but you need to realize that he will never be the same man again. That guy knew without question who he was, who his family was, and knew his world built around that was safe.

Then it was gone. 

He stood up to the affair, and he came out second best.

So the man who was and his faith is gone.

Hopefully, there is a man that can grow out of that, and man who can learn again to smile, laugh, and hope for tomorrow.

But that's gonna take a lot of support from you, perhaps years worth.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

working_together said:


> We've talked about this, he's told me during the times he has had triggers that he wonders if it's "ever going to work". I've tried to be loving and tell him that the pain may be too great for him, and that in a couple of years it may not work out. He's finally said that he feels that I would never do this to him again, I hope it's because I've done my best to prove this to him. Neither of us want to give up at this point.
> 
> We're not loaded, we're living on social work salaries. lol. I'm fairly independent, and wouldn't take anything from him. I would only ask that he help with kids activities, nothing else.


Working - it might be good for you to be dependent on him. He might feel safer around you. He needs to rebuild his belief that you actually need him and want him, and aren't around out of guilt.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I do want you to consider that it's very likely that you have destroyed your husband's confidence and he is very scared of losing you and may not be able to communicate as to what he really wants or desires at times. You need to make him feel safe that he can ask for anything right now.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

There's an element of my relationship with my husband that I have not shared, that I never wanted to share as to cloud my initial question. But I had a trigger today, and thought I should come forward with this detail.

20 years ago during the time when we were dating (3 years I think), my husband had two ONS. He told me before I found out, and something I never thought about after until my own affair. We rug swept it, and I "stuffed" my pain. but this morning I thought about ways to show I'm really remorseful, and something came to me from 20 years ago that really stuck out in my mind (I don't remember much). I remember as he told me he was sobbing, sitting on the floor begging me to forgive him, we cried together and seemed to move on from it. I think I get it, that I haven't truly shown the remorse I should have.

I don't think my decision to have an affair had anything to do with his choices 20 years ago, but on the other hand maybe I thought it would just all go away as quick as it did back then.

What do people think?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

It sounds like you're learning some. Especially with the remorse aspect. When you truly see someone who has remorse, you begin to trust them. Without remorse, you instead are left waiting for them to decide to do it again. 

Honestly, given how you chose the OM in front of everyone's eyes, your husband likely doesn't buy your remorse. 

you know the big moment in the romance, when the two people have to commit and show they can forever trust one another - well you had that scene, and the other man won. More importantly - your husband lost.

In those ONS he did while dating - there is a difference: You won.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

wow, I don't think you realize how relevant it is

1) Your husband's ability to take you back is likely predicated on the fact that you did the same 20 years ago, and thus why he's conflicted on many levels- he feels the pain of what you did and all the while expecting himself to just "get over it" as it seemed you did.


2) The rugsweeping that the both of did 20 years ago is coming back to rear it's ugly head as well. I guarantee as much as you think it hasn't affected your marriage through the years, the unresolved infidelity most certainly played a role in your mindset when things got rough. (even if not consciously thinking about it) You buried resentment and it came out in ways you never expected.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> wow, I don't think you realize how relevant it is
> 
> 1) Your husband's ability to take you back is likely predicated on the fact that you did the same 20 years ago, and thus why he's conflicted on many levels- he feels the pain of what you did and all the while expecting himself to just "get over it" as it seemed you did.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you're right, I really hate that it has to creep back into our lives, was I resentful? I think on some level I was, but again never addressed it at the time, I was so young and immature. I took blame for what he did, I felt that if I was attractive enough, sexy enough, then he wouldn't have done that to me. I know better now.


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## Darth Vader (Jan 2, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> working -
> 
> I hope you do succeed in your goal to make your new marriage work. From what you have written, it is clear that after 25 years your husband had his world destroyed. I'm sorry, but you need to realize that he will never be the same man again. That guy knew without question who he was, who his family was, and knew his world built around that was safe.
> 
> ...



I agree! Her husband will never be the same, and for her to kick him out when he confronted her, SICK! IMO, the best thing her husband can do is kick _her ass_ out of the house and trade her in for two 20 year olds! But hey, that's me! Still with that said, he may very well drop her ass in the end, I hope sooner for his sake than later!


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

Newbie here.



> I don't think my decision to have an affair had anything to do with his choices 20 years ago, but on the other hand maybe I thought it would just all go away as quick as it did back then.


You might not see it, but it really could've been an underlying issue. Maybe deep down inside you justified your own affair by this prior experience... but that's for a therapist to analyze.

Just a question... was OM married himself? Did you expose him to his wife? As far as I'm concerned, she deserves the same "courtesy" of knowing the truth. She was also put in a position where she was decieved. It sounds like he got off scot-free, while you and your husband are struggling to keep your marriage alive. This is not exacting revenge, but of TOTAL transparancy and honesty toward BOTH spouses.


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

I may be wrong about this but my first reaction to you sharing your husband's ONS almost 20 years ago before you were married is that it has little if anything to do with your affair and his reaction to it. Simply, you two didn't have the same level of investment to each other and the relationship as you do now - even in the 3rd year of you boyfriend / girlfriend relationship. 

You two dealt with the ONS issues at the level of maturity and commitment at the time. 

You two got married, had and raised children and lived a life infadelity free until you betrayed the marriage, your family and your husband of 20+ years.

The betrayals are not at the same level, you cannot look 20 years back and rationalize your betrayal of your husband to his betrayal of his girlfriend over 20+ years ago.

I think you are reaching back to excuse your actions and control his response.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

calif_hope said:


> I think you are reaching back to excuse your actions and control his response.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perhaps, perhaps not. What she may be getting at is that the ONS betrayal her then boyfriend now husband may have never have healed and left her partially unattached from him, something that is now probably going to happen to him. He may love her but he is now going to keep a part of him guarded from her forever. Both need to be in therapy in order to heal and move on with their lives whether together or separately.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

JustaJerk said:


> Newbie here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, the OM was married, and yeah, we've been struggling over the fact that his wife needs to know that he's a cheat, although she had suspicions. I guess I hesitated because I'm a coward and don't want the backlash from it. Hubby is at me full force with showing up at his door and letting his wife know what a scum bag her husband is.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

morituri said:


> Perhaps, perhaps not. What she may be getting at is that the ONS betrayal her then boyfriend now husband may have never have healed and left her partially unattached from him, something that is now probably going to happen to him. He may love her but he is now going to keep a part of him guarded from her forever. Both need to be in therapy in order to heal and move on with their lives whether together or separately.


You make a very clever point. I think you may have something there. I really need to back to I/C and deal with this issue.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

calif_hope said:


> I may be wrong about this but my first reaction to you sharing your husband's ONS almost 20 years ago before you were married is that it has little if anything to do with your affair and his reaction to it. Simply, you two didn't have the same level of investment to each other and the relationship as you do now - even in the 3rd year of you boyfriend / girlfriend relationship.
> 
> You two dealt with the ONS issues at the level of maturity and commitment at the time.
> 
> ...


I don't want to compare the two, the hurt may have been similar, but no, he is def. suffering much more than I did. I guess I was throwing it out there because I'm trying to understand that if at the time of his ONS did I start to detach from my marriage.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I agree with hubby, expose to the OMW


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Keeping the OM safe, means you are valuing him more than your husband in your husbands eyes. Tell the OMW
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Keeping the OM safe, means you are valuing him more than your husband in your husbands eyes. Tell the OMW
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's exactly what he is saying, and when d/day occured, I told him that I didn't want to do that to his family, hubby was furious with me that I should feel the need to protect him and his family. Grrrr, I know it has to be done, but even after all these months, does it make sense? is it revenge? Hubby wants to do it at x-mas time and ruin his holidays just as his holidays were ruined last year. 

I just feel it is pointless at this time, but on the other hand it would also show hubby that I am supporting him on this decision.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Honestly is there ever a good time for a wife to find out about his cheating husband? Let him do it now, he is more important than your OM's holiday
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

On another thread you claim OMW _already knew _about the affair, yet on this one you say she was _suspicious_ about it- which one is it? I hope your not trying to lie again about what this woman really knows.



> Hubby wants to do it at x-mas time and ruin his holidays just as his holidays were ruined last year.


This is his decision and you're either with him ALL the way, or not with him at all. That's the way I see it- _If your not with me, then you're against me_. It sounds like your still protecting him(OM) from ANY fallout... I wouldn't be to forgiving about that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

In your initial post in this thread you said there had never been infidelity on either side before your affair. Now ur saying ur husband had two ONS. In ur other thread u said OMW knew of the affair. Now you've said she doesn't know. Which is it? People can't give you advice if you're giving different versions of your story/facts. We can't help if you aren't going to tell us one version of the real story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

working_together said:


> That's exactly what he is saying, and when d/day occured, I told him that I didn't want to do that to his family, hubby was furious with me that I should feel the need to protect him and his family. Grrrr, I know it has to be done, but even after all these months, does it make sense? is it revenge? Hubby wants to do it at x-mas time and ruin his holidays just as his holidays were ruined last year.
> 
> I just feel it is pointless at this time, but on the other hand it would also show hubby that I am supporting him on this decision.


You stated asking what else can you. Now that hubby has asked, you are balking. Guess you have reached the limit of what you will actually do to get back with hubby.

Whie motivation, revenge or not, or of this matters is not something you should be questioning.

If you want to mske up for your cheatng and get back with hubby, then you should not only be doing what he asks, but asking him how you can help do it.

Oh, and the OM definitely needs to feel some of the love from you hubby. Btw this is your chance to show your hubby through action who you really choose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Working, I think your husband's old ONS can explain your lack of affection for him, but it, by no means , can explain your lack of respect for him, during your own affair. For you to choose the OM over your husband , to his face, is quite frankly horrible. I strongly urge you, in the name of decent behavior, to show him this thread. He should have knowledge that there is life after marriage and that he deserves a loyal, honest, loving , and respectful wife, Sadly, you are none of these. Fix your own issues, and let him go.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

working_together said:


> That's exactly what he is saying, and when d/day occured, I told him that I didn't want to do that to his family, hubby was furious with me that I should feel the need to protect him and his family. Grrrr, I know it has to be done, but even after all these months, does it make sense? is it revenge? Hubby wants to do it at x-mas time and ruin his holidays just as his holidays were ruined last year.
> 
> I just feel it is pointless at this time, but on the other hand it would also show hubby that I am supporting him on this decision.


Working, when will you ever support your husband? How can he feel you are truly his, and loyal to him, if you continue to protect the OM. You chose the OM once before, and I'm sure that every day that you keep covering for him, it must seem to your husband that you are continuing to show who you REALLY love, and it isn't him.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I, too went back and looked at the OP's other threads and am confused. Are you , by chance, a troll?


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> In your initial post in this thread you said there had never been infidelity on either side before your affair. Now ur saying ur husband had two ONS. In ur other thread u said OMW knew of the affair. Now you've said she doesn't know. Which is it? People can't give you advice if you're giving different versions of your story/facts. We can't help if you aren't going to tell us one version of the real story.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I haven't been clear, the OW had suspicions, and had even posted that her husband was cheating on her. She couldn't prove it, and did not have any evidence.

As for my husband, I did not want to mention that he had two ONS 20 years ago, I originally didn't feel it was relevent, and that it would perhaps deter from my original question.

Sorry about that.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> I, too went back and looked at the OP's other threads and am confused. Are you , by chance, a troll?


I'm not a troll, just wasn't being clear in my posts. Hopefully it's clear now.


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## Mycroft_63 (Nov 28, 2011)

working_together said:


> I'm not a troll, just wasn't being clear in my posts. Hopefully it's clear now.


I've also read your whole thread and wish to offer hope and a suggestion.

I think a situation I had is a little similar to yours. My wife had an EA. I've always been quiet, but tough in emotional situations. But, the EA really hurt me, more than I thought I ever could be.

She's been good to me. But, it took us a while to figure out what I needed. She tried doing a lot of stuff for me. But, what I really needed was little tokens of affection and time for just us. Things I do are hold her hand when I don't feel like it, write her poems to make me think of what I love about her and stuff like it that.

It's true that it will never be the same for you, and a PA is surely worse for a man to deal with. But, remember that every day changes the world, yourselves and your husband. Nothing is ever the same as it was yesterday or last year.

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

working_together said:


> As for my husband, I did not want to mention that he had two ONS 20 years ago, I originally didn't feel it was relevant, and that it would perhaps deter from my original question.
> 
> Sorry about that.


Not to justify your husband's ONS so correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you also say they happened before the two of you were engaged to be married?


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## Mycroft_63 (Nov 28, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mycroft_63 (Nov 28, 2011)

I noticed that I didn't explicitly state my suggestion. It is that you find out what makes him feel loved. Then do that thing. And if he can do something for you too, that will help you put your heart in it and make him feel good too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

morituri said:


> Not to justify your husband's ONS so correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you also say they happened before the two of you were engaged to be married?


Yes, they happened before we were married, we were exclusively dating for a couple of years at the time. I understood why he did it, I thought we dealt with it, and we never talked about it again until my affair, he actually brought it up.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok, Working, I just wanted to be sure that the posters weren't wasting their time with a troll.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

working_together said:


> Yes, they happened before we were married, we were exclusively dating for a couple of years at the time. I understood why he did it, I thought we dealt with it, and we never talked about it again until my affair, he actually brought it up.


There are several inconsistencies in this story. The initial post where mutual infidelity was denied has aklready been mentioned, as has the discrepancy in the OM's wife knowing vs suspecting.
Now, there seeems to be another. i thought you mentioned having checked out of th marriage in response to his cheating. Yet, the cheating ocured pre-marriage.
These little discrepancies are beginning to add up. This is how it works when cross examinig someone. Little by little, things change or are inconsistent.


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## #10 (Dec 4, 2011)

Haz,
That was an amazing response and read.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Arnold said:


> There are several inconsistencies in this story. The initial post where mutual infidelity was denied has aklready been mentioned, as has the discrepancy in the OM's wife knowing vs suspecting.
> Now, there seeems to be another. i thought you mentioned having checked out of th marriage in response to his cheating. Yet, the cheating ocured pre-marriage.
> These little discrepancies are beginning to add up. This is how it works when cross examinig someone. Little by little, things change or are inconsistent.


I feel like I'm on the stand here.....

I said that when my husband had his two ONS's that later on I may have slowly checked out of my relationship/marriage, as an after effect.

Read my other responses in terms of the reason I hadn't mentioned my husband's infidelity.

I was sure his wife knew that he was cheating, for crying out loud she posted on her FB, but he gas lighted her and I guess she believed him. Yes, she was suspicious. She refused to let him come to work half of the time.....apparently.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

An element that I think is lost here is the fact that not only did you cheat on your husband, but you cheated on your entire family- your kids included. You mentioned that your son's GF cheated on him two years _prior_ to your own affair, and saw the immense pain he was feeling; yet, you dove into this affair willingly(seems pretty damn cold to me). How do you feel about that? I'm sure your pretty much against telling your children, especially your son, the truth behind the current problems within your marriage. Your son deserves as much of an apology as your husband... he's an adult now, and is part of the bigger picture.

Also... I don't want to sound insensitve, but given the line of work you're in, I'm sure you've seen the destructive nature of an unstable home environment. How were you able to function during your affair having this knowledge? I mean... to go about your job- helping these people- totally detached from what was going on in your personal life sounds very cold and calculating. My mind is just spinning right now trying to wrap my head around it. To think that you _yourself_ were putting your own children directly in the firing line for them to become just another statistic(children from a broken home) in your line of work just boggles the mind.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

JustaJerk said:


> An element that I think is lost here is the fact that not only did you cheat on your husband, but you cheated on your entire family- your kids included. You mentioned that your son's GF cheated on him two years _prior_ to your own affair, and saw the immense pain he was feeling; yet, you dove into this affair willingly(seems pretty damn cold to me). How do you feel about that? I'm sure your pretty much against telling your children, especially your son, the truth behind the current problems within your marriage. Your son deserves as much of an apology as your husband... he's an adult now, and is part of the bigger picture.


You make some good points, and I live with this every day. I betrayed my whole family, kids included, and yes, they're recovering as well, it hasn't been easy for them. They still after 9 months don't feel it's a stable home. My oldest son knows of the affair, his dad told him, and he heard our conversations. I lost a lot of respect, I have to earn that back.

You're right I was cold, and yes, my oldest son needs an apology for all the bull**** that's come of this. I've tried to make it up to all my kids, but not enough, it's been tough.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

JustaJerk said:


> An element that I think is lost here is the fact that not only did you cheat on your husband, but you cheated on your entire family- your kids included. You mentioned that your son's GF cheated on him two years _prior_ to your own affair, and saw the immense pain he was feeling; yet, you dove into this affair willingly(seems pretty damn cold to me). How do you feel about that? I'm sure your pretty much against telling your children, especially your son, the truth behind the current problems within your marriage. Your son deserves as much of an apology as your husband... he's an adult now, and is part of the bigger picture.
> 
> Also... I don't want to sound insensitve, but given the line of work you're in, I'm sure you've seen the destructive nature of an unstable home environment. How were you able to function during your affair having this knowledge? I mean... to go about your job- helping these people- totally detached from what was going on in your personal life sounds very cold and calculating. My mind is just spinning right now trying to wrap my head around it. To think that you _yourself_ were putting your own children directly in the firing line for them to become just another statistic(children from a broken home) in your line of work just boggles the mind.


I have always been the type of person that has put 100 per cent into my career, and yes, I was at a job where I was dealing with women in crisis, and the effects on their children. Was I giving 100 percent during the affair? no, I was struggling with guilt, and hence left the job until I could better offer my services, I was quite aware that I was not going to be very helpful etc.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

Well... for what its worth, I hope it _does_ work out for you... really I do. I also respect the fact that you've answered many of the posters questions without being _too_ defensive about it. 

You have a really good guy in that husband of yours. Be extremely grateful that at least he's giving you another shot. Not very many men would do that- myself included.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

JustaJerk said:


> Well... for what its worth, I hope it _does_ work out for you... really I do. I also respect the fact that you've answered many of the posters questions without being _too_ defensive about it.
> 
> You have a really good guy in that husband of yours. Be extremely grateful that at least he's giving you another shot. Not very many men would do that- myself included.


I appreciate the feedback from everyone on here, and really I'm not in any position to be defensive, although I have to admit some of the comments hit hard, but I needed the harsh reality.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Working, My comments may seem harsh, but I am looking at your situation, from the perspective of the BH. My wife is so remorseful and afraid, that it has landed her in a mental institution, but even so, I will not reconcile, because I will not endure the dishonesty, disrespect and deceit of a cheating spouse. And this is with the qualification that she didn't do it in front of me or my family. That's why I feel that your infidelity is so much worse. You basically cuckolded your husband. About The only thing you didn't do is eff him (OM) in front of your husband. I cannot understand your husband's lack of pride, at all. I , too, wish you well, but , for the life of me, can't see how you could possibly get over this, long term.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

This is the main reason I would like him to come here and read this thread and interact with the posters. I am amazed that you are still together, and am very curious about your husband's opinion and mindset.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Why are you amazed they are still together? Lots of couples do stay together after an infidelity. Not all, but it's not something from another world either.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Can you explain how/why you thought it a decent idea to ask your h to get out of the house while you were messing with this other guy?
As other's have pointed out, frankly, that seems sadistic.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Can you explain how/why you thought it a decent idea to ask your h to get out of the house while you were messing with this other guy?
> As other's have pointed out, frankly, that seems sadistic.


This kind of thing is what I'm talking about. She SEEMS sorry but NOT remorseful, but then I look at what she actually did to her husband, and it was so horribly cruel and selfish that I am amazed tha he isn't filled with loathing for her. To have an affair is one thing, to choose the OM (in her husband's face) and throw her husband in the trash is so much worse. Do you have any conscience at all, Working? If I had done this, I would feel like scum.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Why are you amazed they are still together? Lots of couples do stay together after an infidelity. Not all, but it's not something from another world either.


Beans, it's not the affair, it is the cold-blooded way she basically chose the OM in front of her husband and family, IN THEIR FACES, that is so much worse. She is the most selfish WS I have seen on this site.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think people have been reliving their marriage through the thread and taking out their angst against the OP(I am guilty of this too). For what it is worth, the OP has been very patient and understanding in her answers. Realize that OP is here for some advice. But most of the messages are either judging/attacking her way too much. If you read through the 12 pages, she has been answering the same set of questions repeatedly and was not rude even once. Reactions like this can potentially scare away people seeking help with their infidelity. Just tone it down a little bit people.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Mea Culpa.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

working_together said:


> My husband found out about the affair through my emails to the OM, he always had access to everything I had. I always left my cell phone around, he had such blind trust in me. If only he had looked at my phone he would have seen it all right in front of him.
> 
> The affair was short, three months. It was one of the people we had renovating our home. Although I take complete responsibility in saying yes, he pursued me with all the famous lines, everything I wanted to hear at the time. You see as my husband points out I was and still to a point very naive. It used to drive him crazy how I never saw a bad situation coming, or that people were manipulating me. On the other hand, it's what he loved about me so much.
> 
> While in the affair and thick into the "fog" I really thought I was so much happier than I had ever been. I was so blindsided my mixed emotions, and then guilt. I asked him to leave, which he did (he regrets not reading the 180).


Need some clarification here please. You asked your husband to leave because you wanted to continue your affair without having to look at your husband and feeling guilty for betraying him?

Did you and the OM use the marital home to engage in sex during the separation from your husband? I ask because if the answer is yes, then the marital home may be a huge trigger to your husband.



> We did not fight after he left, he had full access to the kids, I did not ask him for a dime, I really thought if I wanted this, then I would do this alone. *Then Valentine's day came, and I felt sick to my stomach over the pain I saw in his eyes, we talked and decided to make it work. I ended the affair on that day and never contacted the other person, although OM tried his best to try to manipulate me into continuing to see him "on the side"*. I gave my husband the address of OM, and he drove his house and sat out front while on the phone with me. I tried calming him down, he was in a rage. He walked up to the house and threw something OM had left at our house while working here. Not a good situation, the guy was so paranoid he wouldn't come out of his house, and cowardly phoned hubby and apologized for the whole thing. Did my husband feel better with the apology? for about 5 min. He had so many plans of how to ruin this guys life, he would come up with ways that would scare the **** out of me. In the end he walked away.


It seems that you weren't emotionally invested in the affair but were in it for the seductive attention that the OM was giving you. If this is true then that would explain why you were able to end the affair so easily.

If you really want to help convince your husband that you are serious about wanting to rebuild the marriage and never again betray him, then you really do need to get back to IC to get at the heart of why you allowed this to happen in the first place and to prevent this from ever happening again.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Mori, I disagree. She must first try to understand her inability to emotionally connect and her willingness to be deceptive.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Badblood how she acts here with us is not necessarily the same way she acts with her husband. She needs professional help something which this forum is not capable of providing.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I would hope not, because she comes across as very selfish and cruel. Maybe that is the persona she projects in public and she is more connected in private, who knows. I bear her no ill will, and have been pretty harsh, I admit. I expect you are right, she definitely needs professional help.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Badblood, the hate and anger are coming out


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Warlock, I know.Sometimes I get carried away, and I do apologize to the OP and the other posters. In my circumstance, sometimes it gets the better of me. I have had to deal with this for months now, and sometimes I need to vent. I will start my own venting thread, and only try to give impartial advice , in the future.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

BTW, thanks for pointing it out. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Yes, I do not think this woman is any more messed up than the typical cheater. She has a shot at fixing this.
These cheaters, in many cases, are pretty screwed up in terms of their ability to think rationally , for some time after cheating.
We hear weird things. like the guy sexually awakening her, or how he pursued her and said all the right things.
On anither thread, a cheating wife is pointing to the sensitivity of her neck area as playing a role in her decision to cheat.
I expect the halfway bright, non -disordered cheaters, eventually, are mortified by their excuses. But, regardless of smarts, it seems to take quite a while before they see how cruel and immature they were.


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## Darth Vader (Jan 2, 2011)

working_together said:


> That's exactly what he is saying, and when d/day occured, I told him that I didn't want to do that to his family, hubby was furious with me that I should feel the need to protect him and his family. Grrrr, I know it has to be done, but even after all these months, does it make sense? is it revenge? Hubby wants to do it at x-mas time and ruin his holidays just as his holidays were ruined last year.
> 
> I just feel it is pointless at this time, but on the other hand it would also show hubby that I am supporting him on this decision.


He wants the OM to have to suffer exactly the same way both you and OM caused your husband and your family to suffer! He's evening the score! I sense you're still trying to protect the OM in some slick way.....


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Darth Vader said:


> He wants the OM to have to suffer exactly the same way both you and OM caused your husband and your family to suffer! He's evening the score! I sense you're still trying to protect the OM in some slick way.....


Maybe you should read her new thread. Her H exposed the A to OMW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Darth Vader (Jan 2, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> Maybe you should read her new thread. Her H exposed the A to OMW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is? I'm there.


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