# Revenge affairs



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

How common are they? Why do people do them? 

To give some context. I am almost 3 months since D-day. We are trying to work on things and it is better generally. I travel for work at times and have been in another city all week. I have never cheated, never really thought of it aside from the what if I had a shot at Selma Hayek type pipe dreams LOL. But I had a woman Tuesday very matter of fact proposition me. Now I declined and retreated to my hotel room from the lobby bar alone. But it got my head swirling. I guess I am curious how often it happens and why for others. Is it anger, hurt, depression, sadness, an attempt at coping with things? I plan to talk during IC about it monday, my thoughts and feelings haven't changed but it did throw me for a loop I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Good that you did not participate. 

It makes matters worse. If you decide to go that route, divorce first, then move on. Relationship boundaries are important.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

AZman said:


> How common are they? Why do people do them?


I think they are more common than people let on. It can happen years after even. Why though? It’s in the title “Revenge” and a sense of ‘eye for an eye’ to balance it back out in your head. It’s just as selfish, but the motivations are different; You want to get even.

As un-politically correct as it sounds, I do empathize and excuse RA's as somehow "justified" ramifications for a wayward to experience.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Glad to see that you stuck to your principles. 

Hopefully your wife is being honest now also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm glad you didn't do it but to be completely candid I am an individual that is easily seduced by the prospect of revenge. It is a terrible weakness.

You showed strength in that situation and should be very proud. It shows character.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I see RA's a little differently. Affairs are often about giving in to temptation. So if you are a BS, and the temptation arises, sometimes the attitude can be, "Hell, my spouse did it, I think I can get one free pass here."

So rather than it being about revenge, to many it's more about telling yourself you "deserve" to give into temptation now, since your spouse did it to you. Not really about going out and finding it to spite them.

But the genesis is the same - it's about character and whether you want to keep it pure or whether you are okay letting yourself have a dent in it.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

And I can honestly say that there were times during our R process where if the temptation came, I would have bit at it. I never, ever would go looking for it. And now that our R is pretty solid, I wouldn't give into temptation if it chased me, but if I got propositioned right after my W broke NC, I probably would have gone for it. Not as a revenge thing, but more of a "I get to do this given the hell I've been through".

That said, I'm very glad the timing never worked that way, and I've kept myself honorable through everything.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

While I dont blame anyone for having one, I personally would never do it. I have never cheated on any relationship before and I wont do it now. The only way I will ever be with another woman in my life is if I get divorced.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

I can understand where people feel some justification.

I can only control me. So until the day I'm divorced I'm not changing my standards. I can't see what good it would do me. Maybe it would feel different if I was a guy and I didn't need emotional connection before I hop into bed. NOT saying all guys feel like this or all women. 

I have been hit on by some really attractive men. It happens (I'm not looking for it) They always get a polite reminder that I am married in case they didn't notice the rock on my left hand. Things are complicated enough. I'm def not "easy" to get into the sack. So I can't imagine dealing with an RA.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Gabriel said:


> I see RA's a little differently. Affairs are often about giving in to temptation. So if you are a BS, and the temptation arises, sometimes the attitude can be, "Hell, my spouse did it, I think I can get one free pass here."
> 
> So rather than it being about revenge, to many it's more about telling yourself you "deserve" to give into temptation now, since your spouse did it to you. Not really about going out and finding it to spite them..


But then I don't see that as a "revenge affair". That's just an affair where you use your spouse's adultery as a justification. The rest of it is 'normal affair' from the attraction, to the selfish thoughts, to the probable lying and hiding telling yourself you don't want to hurt your spouse. 

I do think BS's are more 'open' to adultery. Afterall, if they are cheating with a former WS, they at some point and time had to conclude that adultery is not a deal breaker. Otherwise, they'd be divorced. So the concept of 'monogamy' is seriously devalued as a critical component of your marriage to them.

The RA is typically rubbed in the face of the wayward. It's about them knowing you did this and having to face that same hurt.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Unfortunately, I had what would probably be considered a Revenge affair. Mrs. Adams mentions it in "our story" posted in her profile. It is still a bad choice and completely my fault. Certainly a bad character fault and something I am very ashamed to have done.

It was not really an emotional affair, I really did not have any emotions toward her to speak of, not physical, but still damaging. To give some background and certainly not an excuse. After my wife's affair and some of the the things she said; he is better looking, smooth, exciting, on and on.......I pretty much felt like a complete piece of sh..t. Could another woman even be attracted to me? Could I act like a player? I have never been a flirt or even remotely a player in my life. I was in night college finishing my degree. I looked around to find what I considered to be the best looking girl in the class. I flirted with her. She responded. I took her to get an ice cream before class. We made out a couple of times in my car. She whispered to me "I want you so bad". So, in a sick kind of way, i knew "i won". I just wanted/needed to know I could attract another woman and I was not the complete loser I though i was........however in reality I proved i was indeed a loser. There is no excuse for any kind of affair. But, unfortunately, I guess i can somewhat relate to people who do end up having a RA.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

*I have one trigger...chocolate chip ice cream...and every time he gets one.. I cringe.*

That is now off my diet.....I love strawberry


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Ironically even while being part of the lets hang up all the cheaters gang, I am not totally against them, is some situations I think that they are benefical

I rememeber the case of one user (in love shack) where his wife still wanted to have both he and the OM so she suggested to have a kind of open marriage thinking that he will reject the offer a let her keep seeing the OM.

He was a strict monogamous but he accepted (he described how he thought her wife probably was figuring that it will not be easy for him find a stranger to have sex. she was wrong) he entered in ****** maddison and hooked with a woman in her late 20's (both of them were in their early 40's) the first time he returned from his encounter he said his wife put a strong front, but the second time she cried and begged him to stop. 

I remember the they were now doing pretty great in the marriage and the user felt empowered and the resentment towards her wife decreased after his RA, he saw it as they were kind of even so they could now begin to rebuild their marriage

also we have the case of a user here who regrets that he hadn't one to give her wife a emphaty lesson, as other friends of his had already done with positive results

I quote him:



Elliott said:


> That's exactly what I thought. She's plenty of times expressed how she can't handle the thought of me being with another woman. Last time this happened (years ago) my friends said cheat on her so she'll know exactly how it feels. And she'll never do it again. I didn't want to do that (even though they've done it to their wives and their wives have never cheated again).


I am still worried about elliot his wife was a selfish b*tch in her second affair but she wanted him to remain loyal.

I have many other thoughts of (cases that I had read during the years) why I think it could be positive sometimes, but I will post them later.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Just to clarify

the RA I consider acceptables are under hermetic circumstances:

- Affair partner has to be single*. 
- Affair partner aware of the circumstances of the BS (to not begin a emotional engagement ).
- the affair have to be used to serve a purpose and not as excuse to begin to fooling around (give clarity or a emphaty slap to the delusional WS who still wants to cheat or to regain selfsteem and selfvalue to dilute the resentment towards the WS).
- the RA have to be done with the pretense of neither of the parts having an emotional engagement.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

AZman said:


> How common are they? Why do people do them?
> 
> To give some context. My wife had an EA and PA 2 different people about a year apart. I am almost 3 months since D-day on the PA. We are trying to work on things and it is better generally. I travel for work at times and have been in another city all week. I have never cheated, never really thought of it aside from the what if I had a shot at Selma Hayek type pipe dreams LOL. But I had a woman Tuesday very matter of fact proposition me. Now I declined and retreated to my hotel room from the lobby bar alone. But it got my head swirling. I guess I am curious how often it happens and why for others. Is it anger, hurt, depression, sadness, an attempt at coping with things? I plan to talk during IC about it monday, my thoughts and feelings haven my changed but it did throw me for a loop I guess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My fear is that in the past, I've always been able to do the retreat thing.. I wonder if I can still be strong like you. The affair made me feel like an idiot for turning down opportunities, as if I realized too late I was playing by different rules. Now that I'm in R, are the rules really back to what they were? Will I ever really know? Will I feel stupid for keeping my wife safe and showing her respect over some random tart? I'd like to tell you that you did the right thing, but I'm really not sure... might be that you should have banged the crap out of her and not told anyone. I think that's how it's done, and some of us are just missing out.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Revenge sex vs Revenge affair...

I think revenge sex could be a good thing for the BS...


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

My revenge ONS was the biggest mistake of my life as well as the biggest regret. It ruined absolutely everything. I wish with all of my heart and every fiber of my being to travel back in time and stay home that night. My husband was never able to get over it. 2.5 years of R wasted. He told me to leave our home on Monday and informed me today he will be filing for divorce. 

My 1 discretion in a 25 year relationship destroyed his love and our marriage. 

NOT WORTH IT!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

WaitForIt... said:


> My revenge ONS was the biggest mistake of my life as well as the biggest regret. It ruined absolutely everything. I wish with all of my heart and every fiber of my being to travel back in time and stay home that night. My husband was never able to get over it. 2.5 years of R wasted. He told me to leave our home on Monday and informed me today he will be filing for divorce.
> 
> My 1 discretion in a 25 year relationship destroyed his love and our marriage.
> 
> ...


Yes it was wrong to cheat back, but I think you'll find the damage was already done by then. Seems a bit rich he "couldn't get over it" yet expected you to. But a cautionary tale indeed


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## lewmin (Nov 5, 2012)

I can relate to John Adams in a way. My wife had a 9 month affair in 2012 and we are in a good R. I never had or considered having an affair during our marriage. What happens is that when I got over the shock, I had the feeling like I was the lowest piece of garbage and I needed validation to get your self-worth back.

So (for the first time) it has been tempting at times. But when I realize the pain that the BS goes through, I just can not do it. What I found interesting however, is that once (single) females in our circle knew about the affair my wife had, in some ways it made me more "marketable", because they were positioning themselves in case we had split. 

It took awhile to realize I'm not crap but a good catch. But that's what an affair could do to you. Just knock you to the ground. I'm 57..in good shape, I have most of my hair (lol), like to have fun, active in a lot of areas, educated, professional, and am financially very well off due to my own doing.

One of the "candidates" was from a 40 year extremely very attractive female, the other was from a 32 year old professional, very exotic, that when she walks into the room, you notice her immediately. 

I think they were trying to "groom me".....when I run into the 32 year old, she keeps telling me we should get together and what a great guy I am and how she wants to meet someone just like me, etc.

Even the married females friends (mostly my wifes friends) said my wife made a big mistake...and that this other guy couldn't shine my shoes...and that I'm a good guy. 

I never needed to hear all this before to pick up my morale, but unless you have been a BS, you wouldn't know where I am coming from. 

I'm hoping I never take the bait...but after what I have been through, it doesn't hurt to at least hear this. PS - my wife knows this too and sometimes she thinks how long it will take till I crack.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm not a fan of reconciliation after cheating and for me personally I couldn't even begin to consider it without an RA first. And I'd put 100% of the blame on the original WS.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My accidental RA (EA to near PA) actually made me feel worse than my wife's affair did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

When my older boys dad cheated on me, I thought about it, but then i thought to myself. hes so slimy i will not sink to his level...... So i did not.


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

russell28 said:


> My fear is that in the past, I've always been able to do the retreat thing.. I wonder if I can still be strong like you. The affair made me feel like an idiot for turning down opportunities, as if I realized too late I was playing by different rules. Now that I'm in R, are the rules really back to what they were? Will I ever really know? Will I feel stupid for keeping my wife safe and showing her respect over some random tart? I'd like to tell you that you did the right thing, but I'm really not sure... might be that you should have banged the crap out of her and not told anyone. I think that's how it's done, and some of us are just missing out.


I guess I feel this way too. I have been presented with chances before and always laughed them off and turned them down without a second thought. But apparently I was living by a different definition of commitment and such. Or at least that is what I thought the other night after I got back to my room.

Sure it was a boost of self-esteem. A group of strangers sharing at table at a hotel bar since it was too cold to venture out side to get food. We were all eating, drinking, bsing since we were all in town for different reasons, in different industries etc. I have never met such a forward woman in my life. I said "well good night everyone, I am off to bed." As I was walking away she stopped me and said "I don't want to sleep alone tonight, do you?" I laughed thinking she was joking but she made it clear she was not. 

She knew I was married as another guy at the table and I talked about our families. I was also wearing my wedding ring. So like I said, I went back to my room alone, but it definitely through me for a loop and got me thinking about it, more than I ever have in my life. 

I haven't thought about the "why" be it revenge, feeling wanted/desired, etc.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Revenge sex vs Revenge affair...
> 
> I think revenge sex could be a good thing for the BS...


Yep, could be. There were times it would have done me a world of good. But I think accepting sex and going around looking to get laid just to get even are two completely different animals.

And I agree with Warlock that sex is completely different than a revenge affair. An revenge affair with feelings, etc, is completely counterproductive, IMO, and not the same thing I was talking about.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Ironically even while being part of the lets hang up all the cheaters gang, I am not totally against them, is some situations I think that they are beneficial."

I agree.

I left my longtime serious gf who cheated instantly, but if I had decided to stay with her I would almost certainly have had an RA and let her know about it.

To me it is a clear DEMONSTRATION to the WS that this is what it feels like, so any future thoughts of doing it again will include the emotional realization of what cheating actually causes.

I think that some people never truly 'get' what their actions do to others until they experience the same in return.

Plus, I am a person who would feel like I betrayed myself if I just laid down and accepted her s****y behavior without a payback or settling of scores. 

My own self-esteem would be the price I paid if I did that.

But I am a vengeful person.

I do not wrong other people if they have done nothing to me, and I will not tolerate those behaviors towards myself because of this.

I know many people do not agree with revenge. And they are absolutely right...FOR THEMSELVES...if they do feel this way.

Some people should never engage in revenge because the very act itself further destroys their own self -esteem.

I am not built that way.

And ultimately, I believe every person has to act in a way that is true to THEMSELVES first.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I understand them. I thought about it and went looking one night. Ended when a girl was giving me the eye and I thought this is not who I want to become and went home. I even told my wife about it.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> My accidental RA (EA to near PA) actually made me feel worse than my wife's affair did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was just about to post an entry saying "I hope MattMatt shows up here."


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

AZman said:


> How common are they? Why do people do them?



I believe people do them because they wanted to anyway, but now are using their WS's cheating as an excuse.

To me a cheater is a cheater.

Keep your dignity and respect intact. Don't cheat. You are better than that. Don't stoop to your wife's level.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

MattMatt said:


> My accidental RA (EA to near PA) actually made me feel worse than my wife's affair did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After years on forums like this, that seems to be the normal for BS's who went wayward. The only exception seems to be the ones who really couldn't reconcile and ended up divorcing anyway. Like they got their 2lbs of flesh before terminating the marriage.

Or the rare case with a particularly unremorseful entitled wayward where the BH (never seen a BW get this) has an affair and it truly shakes up the original wayward. So they finally see remorse and what bull they'd been putting out and really start changing. 

But those are rare and tend to be very long nasty reconciliations with major hurdles, back steps, and still end up somewhat detached. 

You can kind of see that same effect when people divorce and the WS watches the BS start dating, finding good relationships, etc. and wants them back... It's just with the RA you have to live with being a wayward yourself; Better to divorce and hold the high ground even if you want your WS. Not as much beating yourself up for being an adulterer.... and you still might end up with your ex in a position where they can't hold those other relationships as a grudge against you; You were divorced.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

WaitForIt... said:


> My revenge ONS was the biggest mistake of my life as well as the biggest regret. It ruined absolutely everything. I wish with all of my heart and every fiber of my being to travel back in time and stay home that night. My husband was never able to get over it. 2.5 years of R wasted. He told me to leave our home on Monday and informed me today he will be filing for divorce.
> 
> My 1 discretion in a 25 year relationship destroyed his love and our marriage.
> 
> ...


It's very curious when a WS can't get over a revenge affair/ONS, even though the initially BS did. 

I think it's because the WS KNOWS that even in R, they lied and they know that whatever the BS tells them about their affair, it more than likely isn't a full confession. They realize that THEY are now on the position of being lied to and trickle truthed and it hurts like a mutha!


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

I have often thought about an affair myself. I know I wouldn't because I know I wouldn't. That's just how I'm wired. No matter how I feel, I know that if I did that regardless of what happened, I'd have to live with myself stooping to my stbxh's level, and I just can't.

That being said, I have indulged in flirtations, online and off. I have gone to parties and events dolled-up more than usual. Wearing sexier clothes than usual, to elicit some attention. There is someone who I am attracted to and we talk and text quite a bit. I guess it's an EA of sorts, but nothing sexual, "I love you's", etc. But yes, I am getting some sort of satisfaction out of our communications. I let my mind wander.... and leave it at that. I'm sure if I pushed, I'd get whatever I wanted.

That's really the thing, isn't it? It's as if our WS's think we don't have options. EVERYONE has options. I don't care how unattractive you think you are, there is someone out there who would take you in a minute, married or not. I guess they just think we won't? 

Quite a risk to take...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

RA's only cause more problems.


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

I have opted for an old-fashioned divorce and still like myself when I look at the mirror.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ScorchedEarth said:


> It's very curious when a WS can't get over a revenge affair/ONS, even though the initially BS did.
> 
> I think it's because the WS KNOWS that even in R, they lied and they know that whatever the BS tells them about their affair, it more than likely isn't a full confession. They realize that THEY are now on the position of being lied to and trickle truthed and it hurts like a mutha!


When I confessed the next day my wife said: "was it because of my affair with xxxxxx?"

My answer was: "No. I will not blame that for my affair."

Incidentally when I described what happened to a friend of mine who was a psychologist she said that the sequence of events was "off" and -based on several factors (her thesis was on the effects of various date rape drugs) she concluded that my OW could have spiked my drinks.

I refused to follow up on that idea as I had known pretty much where the evening was going to end -in bed with another woman- drugs or no drugs so I would not use that excuse.

Oops. Just went off topic. sorry.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

ScorchedEarth said:


> It's very curious when a WS can't get over a revenge affair/ONS, even though the initially BS did.


I think it's because the old saying is true: *It sucks when it happens to you.*


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

The only way I can wrap my head around even doing this, would be if it was an exit affair.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

After I received hard proof of my xw's affair, from the PI, I decided that there would be no R and go straight to D. 

Every action has a reaction, so I decided on payback to both her and the OM.

The ONS was with the OM's wife and it was all recorded. I edited the recording down to the salient points, put it up on my own server, with a unique address, pass code protected, and it could not be downloaded or screen captured. 

The results? My ex needed psychiatric help heavy meds and intense IC. The OM, after leaving countless messages saying he intends to kill her, her parents, me, kidnap the baby, burn the house, etc, was committed to a sanatorium for an extended period, a broke and broken man. The OM's wife got the house, car, full custody of the baby, with no visitation rights, and even half of his 401k.

And as for me, that closed that chapter of my life. No triggers or mind movies. I've slept like a baby ever since.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

> After I received hard proof of my xw's affair, from the PI, I decided that there would be no R and go straight to D.
> 
> Every action has a reaction, so I decided on payback to both her and the OM.
> 
> ...


Holy ****!!! 

OK, I smiled with righteous joy at this. But seriously man - remind me to never p1ss you off...


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"I think it's because the old saying is true: It sucks when it happens to you."

Totally true.

Some people, and I would include almost all WS's in this category, just seem unable to properly empathize with other humans enough (even their own spouses and children) to avoid inflicting terrible pain on them.

The light bulb never goes on for them until they are PERSONALLY suffering the effects of it being done to them. 

I think a lack of empathy is a sign of a basically self-centered nature. Their worldview consistently revolves about themselves, their feelings, needs, and desires. 

Hence, only when it happens to them do the ramifications of cheating truly enter their perceptions and thoughts.

There are some WS's who do wake up to the pain they have inflicted and feel real remorse for what they have done, but even many of these truly sorry WS's seem to lack a true understanding of the extent and depth of the damage they inflicted.

Its very sad.

But realizing this is also what prompted me years ago to put a strong and genuine sense of empathy at the top of my list of needs/wants when it comes to serious partners.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Holy ****!!!

OK, I smiled with righteous joy at this. But seriously man - remind me to never p1ss you off.."

I laughed too.

Brad is obviously a classic example of something I have said to my friends for several decades now.

There are DEFINITELY some people that you DO NOT want to F with in this world as you will regret ever doing it til the day you wander off this rock.

And they are usually quiet, unassuming, and serious minded people who are the most respectful, trustworthy, and dependable people you know until you cross that line with them.

Then....WATCH OUT!


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> After I received hard proof of my xw's affair, from the PI, I decided that there would be no R and go straight to D.
> 
> Every action has a reaction, so I decided on payback to both her and the OM.
> 
> ...



You are my hero!


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> When I confessed the next day my wife said: "was it because of my affair with xxxxxx?"
> 
> My answer was: "No. I will not blame that for my affair."
> 
> ...


Matt: You yourself refer to your affair as a "revenge affair," so if it's revenge how could it not be because of your wife's A?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> Unfortunately, I had what would probably be considered a Revenge affair. Mrs. Adams mentions it in "our story" posted in her profile. It is still a bad choice and completely my fault. Certainly a bad character fault and something I am very ashamed to have done.
> 
> It was not really an emotional affair, I really did not have any emotions toward her to speak of, not physical, but still damaging. To give some background and certainly not an excuse. After my wife's affair and some of the the things she said; he is better looking, smooth, exciting, on and on.......I pretty much felt like a complete piece of sh..t. Could another woman even be attracted to me? Could I act like a player? I have never been a flirt or even remotely a player in my life. I was in night college finishing my degree. I looked around to find what I considered to be the best looking girl in the class. I flirted with her. She responded. I took her to get an ice cream before class. We made out a couple of times in my car. She whispered to me "I want you so bad". So, in a sick kind of way, i knew "i won". I just wanted/needed to know I could attract another woman and I was not the complete loser I though i was........however in reality I proved i was indeed a loser. There is no excuse for any kind of affair. But, unfortunately, I guess i can somewhat relate to people who do end up having a RA.


I wouldnt classify you as a loser. I would say you are human.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> After I received hard proof of my xw's affair, from the PI, I decided that there would be no R and go straight to D.
> 
> Every action has a reaction, so I decided on payback to both her and the OM.
> 
> ...


As the old commercial says, I love you man.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> After I received hard proof of my xw's affair, from the PI, I decided that there would be no R and go straight to D.
> 
> Every action has a reaction, so I decided on payback to both her and the OM.
> 
> ...


Wow!! One question, Brad: Did the OMW know who you were and what you intended to do?


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

Philat said:


> Wow!! One question, Brad: Did the OMW know who you were anrebuildd what you intended to do?


Yes, she knew who I was. The PI firm provided all the info about the OM. I contacted her with the intent to expose him. We met at a public place where I provided copies of photos as evidence. She was upset but not shocked, as she suspected he was cheating.

I asked her if she was going to divorce him or try to rebuild the marriage. She wanted to D him, but as a SAHM, didn't have any money as he controlled the finances.

I then explained what I wanted to do, and made her the following offer: I would pay all of her legal fees, if she agreed to participate in the ONS.

She agreed saying it would drive him crazy, because of his jealousy and being so controlling.

She was right


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## IPoH (Jul 31, 2012)

I believe Moment has thought about it (at least revenge sex). Within a week of Dday I had made the mistake of propositioning my younger (9 years younger, single and athletic) sister for him. It didn't happen anyway and I've alienated her because of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

I think of the situation a bit differently. The B S should declare the monogamous marriage OVER, as soon as they discover the W S affair. Before the B S embarks on any real R (the so-called 2nd marriage) they should consider themselves single and test the waters...take their time...see what other kinds of people are out there. In the meantime, if the W S is sincere about wanting to make the marriage work again, they will allow this. 
Am not kidding. This is the only way I see making the affair aftermath truly fair to the B S.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

This is a very interesting thread.

I have to admit that revenge has its place, and it accomplishes two very important things, 1) it helps the bs heal to some extent, and 2) it teaches the ws a very important lesson about loyalty.

I agree with many of the posts in this thread. A RA should NEVER hurt a third party. That is probably what kept me from doing it.

One thing I did do, and feel zero remorse about, is that I told my exWW I was done with R and that I was going to start looking. I met up with a couple of women from an online dating site. I actually let my exWW get the Visa statement that had the membership payment. This happened the last few weeks before I moved to an apartment. The results were priceless for my shattered ego.

Fast forward. I am now happily remarried, and the exWW is finally sorting out her life. We talked last week for the first time in many months. She finally "gets" it. I know by the humility in her tone and words.

I don't feel any bitterness anymore. The anger is all gone, and my true feeling is that I hope she has a successful future with a new husband. She is planning to get married a second time in March after being engaged for the past 13 months.

No RA per se, but I feel some of my actions did help her gain perspective on cheating.

I do see the viewpoint of keeping your standards, and not becoming like them. Maybe it depends on your view of morals, religion, or if you want the high ground in your attempt to R. I also feel that often the "moral high ground" in a relationship causes contention that will continually remind the guilty that they are bad. That is not healthy for a marriage, or for a person trying to overcome their past. That is why I feel after betrayal, a D is usually better than R. It allows both parties a fresh start without all of the wounds.

Kudos to those that successfully R. Not sure if a RA would help if R is the goal.

Bradwesley did something I would have considered, if the OM in my exWW's PA would have been married.

My wife's EA with my former best friend (OM #2) did make me tell my exWW that she should live with him, and trade places with his wife. She (my former friend's wife) was game, and it really messed with their heads. Lol! A part of me still wonders what it would have been like to follow through with the threat. If there weren't kids involved, it might have happened. 

They also divorced about a year later.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

adriana said:


> I have opted for an old-fashioned divorce and still like myself when I look at the mirror.


And by choosing not to revenge cheat you make yourself a great catch for a great guy.

I would have reservations about someone I was dating that told me they revenge cheated. Someone that revenge cheated wanted to anyway, but just felt they now had a green light to do so. That wouldn't sit well with me even if a prospective partner told me it was "only" in revenge. Because even if I did agree it was "only" for revenge, then there is another problem......I'd be dating someone vindictive.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

I have thought of a RA or R sex but never could follow through.
I sometimes feel like lesser of a man because i can't do it. I am just wired that way.

I have had 2 chances well 1 really the first was a set up from my wife to see if i would take the bait.

I believe she was trying to lessen the guilt from her affair, I did not bite.

She was way younger and pretty one of those to good to be true things.

the second is an older women i work with. I am 47 she is 52.
She is divorced and has made it clear she is lonely and could used a FWB no strings.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeah, it's a terrible idea. It brings you down to their level, and really, how brutally unhealthy is a marriage that has both spouses screwing other people? A marriage in that state should be shot and put down like a dying animal.

During my false R with my STBXW I contemplated it. I am so very glad I decided to divorce her instead.

Absolutely NO good can come of it.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Racer said:


> I think they are more common than people let on. It can happen years after even. Why though? It’s in the title “Revenge” and a sense of ‘eye for an eye’ to balance it back out in your head. It’s just as selfish, but the motivations are different; You want to get even.
> 
> As un-politically correct as it sounds, I do empathize and excuse RA's as somehow "justified" ramifications for a wayward to experience.


There's also the element of "I just don't care any more". It's very unhealthy - but I can see the justification. The marriage contract has already been nullified...why wouldn't I go screw someone else like my WS did?

So there's the "eye for an eye", "revenge" aspect, and the "well, the marriage isn't real anymore anyway, so why not?".


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Healer said:


> Yeah, it's a terrible idea. It brings you down to their level, and really, how brutally unhealthy is a marriage that has both spouses screwing other people? A marriage in that state should be shot and put down like a dying animal.
> 
> During my false R with my STBXW I contemplated it. I am so very glad I decided to divorce her instead.
> 
> Absolutely NO good can come of it.


Nope not one bit of good. I know because I did it. 

I can give a list of reasons but really all they are is excuses. 

Didn't even think I was having an affair at the time since there was no sex involved. 

Found out here an EA can be just as devastating. 

Pride was kicking my ass hard and I took the sh*thead path.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> Maybe it would feel different if I was a guy and I didn't need emotional connection before I hop into bed. NOT saying all guys feel like this or all women.


Not all guys don't need emotional connection before jumping into bed (I know you acknowledged this). I'm a guy who is not really capable of one night stands or casual sex. Just doesn't make it for me. Sometimes I wish I was more like those guys...but it's not my nature.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> Unfortunately, I had what would probably be considered a Revenge affair. Mrs. Adams mentions it in "our story" posted in her profile. It is still a bad choice and completely my fault. Certainly a bad character fault and something I am very ashamed to have done.
> 
> It was not really an emotional affair, I really did not have any emotions toward her to speak of, not physical, but still damaging. To give some background and certainly not an excuse. After my wife's affair and some of the the things she said; he is better looking, smooth, exciting, on and on.......I pretty much felt like a complete piece of sh..t. Could another woman even be attracted to me? Could I act like a player? I have never been a flirt or even remotely a player in my life. I was in night college finishing my degree. I looked around to find what I considered to be the best looking girl in the class. I flirted with her. She responded. I took her to get an ice cream before class. We made out a couple of times in my car. She whispered to me "I want you so bad". So, in a sick kind of way, i knew "i won". I just wanted/needed to know I could attract another woman and I was not the complete loser I though i was........however in reality I proved i was indeed a loser. There is no excuse for any kind of affair. But, unfortunately, I guess i can somewhat relate to people who do end up having a RA.


Yup - another component to the "RA". Proving to _yourself_ that you're not an undesirable slug. Being cheated on has got to be the biggest ego blow a man (or woman) can face.

I went out immediately after I ended R and left my stbxw and started dating like crazy. I wasn't lonely or horny or whatever - I had to know I was attractive and capable of getting women to like/want me. I succeeded, and my confidence is back, baby.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Sometimes I wish I was more like those guys...but it's not my nature."

This is exactly the point that I was describing.

Every person has to process and handle things in a way that is true to themselves first.

Good for you.


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## Lefacade (Jan 10, 2014)

As a lurker I registered to answer this question. My wife had an affair PA/EA that went on for 2 years before I found out. She obviously was in it very deep when I discovered it. I made all the mistakes of crying, whining, begging ...etc. I think she had 1 foot out the door at that point so to speak. I told her to end it when I found out but she kept stalling on giving me the access I needed to confirm. 

Enter the revenge affair. I really hesitate to call it that because revenge wasn't what I was looking for. I was just looking to feel better about myself. I really felt my marriage was over at that point. At the very least it was slowly sinking and I was looking for a way out. My wife would give me lip service but little more than that. When you've been stabbed in the back as bad as I was(sexually, financially, emotionally) I was just looking for anything or anyone who would make those feelings go away. I needed to feel wanted again, desired and respected. I wanted to feel like I was worth something. This person made me feel like that again. It progressed quickly because she was in the middle of a divorce, and we had history together.

I don't regret what I did. Was it wrong? Probably. We were supposedly reconciling but my wife kept in contact with the OM. It seemed hopeless. I felt like I was just being used. A beta chump provider. The kind that all women say they want but when some have it take it for granted. She did exactly what I needed. Made me feel good about myself. Gave me the strength to tell the wife how it was going to be. Reminded me that I was the good catch not my wife.

Honestly, it seemed to be the turning point. She knew she was going to lose me and that broke her addiction to the other man. The one thing I do regret is any hurt it caused the OW. I had to end it with her and no longer be friends if I wanted to try and salvage the marriage. She felt used even though that wasn't my intention.

So take what you can from that. For me it wasn't about revenge as much as it was about moving on. It just so happens it seemed to be the thing that woke my wife up.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Lefacade said:


> As a lurker I registered to answer this question. My wife had an affair PA/EA that went on for 2 years before I found out. She obviously was in it very deep when I discovered it. I made all the mistakes of crying, whining, begging ...etc. I think she had 1 foot out the door at that point so to speak. I told her to end it when I found out but she kept stalling on giving me the access I needed to confirm.
> 
> Enter the revenge affair. I really hesitate to call it that because revenge wasn't what I was looking for. I was just looking to feel better about myself. I really felt my marriage was over at that point. At the very least it was slowly sinking and I was looking for a way out. My wife would give me lip service but little more than that. When you've been stabbed in the back as bad as I was(sexually, financially, emotionally) I was just looking for anything or anyone who would make those feelings go away. I needed to feel wanted again, desired and respected. I wanted to feel like I was worth something. This person made me feel like that again. It progressed quickly because she was in the middle of a divorce, and we had history together.
> 
> ...


Good honest insight. Did OW follow through with her divorce?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Lefacade said:


> As a lurker I registered to answer this question. My wife had an affair PA/EA that went on for 2 years before I found out. She obviously was in it very deep when I discovered it. I made all the mistakes of crying, whining, begging ...etc. I think she had 1 foot out the door at that point so to speak. I told her to end it when I found out but she kept stalling on giving me the access I needed to confirm.
> 
> Enter the revenge affair. I really hesitate to call it that because revenge wasn't what I was looking for. I was just looking to feel better about myself. I really felt my marriage was over at that point. At the very least it was slowly sinking and I was looking for a way out. My wife would give me lip service but little more than that. When you've been stabbed in the back as bad as I was(sexually, financially, emotionally) I was just looking for anything or anyone who would make those feelings go away. I needed to feel wanted again, desired and respected. I wanted to feel like I was worth something. This person made me feel like that again. It progressed quickly because she was in the middle of a divorce, and we had history together.
> 
> ...



you starting a relationship with the other woman was not wrong. I think monogamy is a commitment that ONLY has value when both partners are observing it. a lot of commitments in life are like that. a peace treaty between two countries, say. one country then attacks the other. the attackee would never consider it "honorable" not to fight back.

you going back to your wife is what was wrong. From your description it sounds as if the OW had shown you more love, at that point, than your wife had. you should have acted accordingly. and yep it feels weird to write this down since I value marriage as much as most people....but I can't really see how it is not valid


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Lefacade said:


> As a lurker I registered to answer this question. My wife had an affair PA/EA that went on for 2 years before I found out. She obviously was in it very deep when I discovered it. I made all the mistakes of crying, whining, begging ...etc. I think she had 1 foot out the door at that point so to speak. I told her to end it when I found out but she kept stalling on giving me the access I needed to confirm.
> 
> Enter the revenge affair. I really hesitate to call it that because revenge wasn't what I was looking for. I was just looking to feel better about myself. I really felt my marriage was over at that point. At the very least it was slowly sinking and I was looking for a way out. My wife would give me lip service but little more than that. When you've been stabbed in the back as bad as I was(sexually, financially, emotionally) I was just looking for anything or anyone who would make those feelings go away. I needed to feel wanted again, desired and respected. I wanted to feel like I was worth something. This person made me feel like that again. It progressed quickly because she was in the middle of a divorce, and we had history together.
> 
> ...


lefacade:

regarding my last post, if it sounded judgmental (of you) it was not meant that way. I just reread your post and it is a good one, sincere and valueable to to others going through the same thing you are. I'm almost always skeptical of prospects for reconciliation when the betrayal is as extensive as your wife's was, but I obviously don't really know what the best thing for you to do is. I do stil say that you having the relationship with the OW was NOT wrong, and have difficulty even calling it cheating. was it the ideal thing to do under the circumstances, not sure - but calling it 'wrong' is a stretch I think. do you have kids? how old?


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## Lefacade (Jan 10, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> lefacade:
> 
> regarding my last post, if it sounded judgmental (of you) it was not meant that way. I just reread your post and it is a good one, sincere and valueable to to others going through the same thing you are. I'm almost always skeptical of prospects for reconciliation when the betrayal is as extensive as your wife's was, but I obviously don't really know what the best thing for you to do is. I do stil say that you having the relationship with the OW was NOT wrong, and have difficulty even calling it cheating. was it the ideal thing to do under the circumstances, not sure - but calling it 'wrong' is a stretch I think. do you have kids? how old?


I'm not offended. I just gave my personal experience for others to read. I found out almost 2 years ago to the day. The first few months were definitely terrible as she was really wanting out of the marriage. I suspect mostly because she didn't want to live the consequences of what she did. Still 2 years later we are in a better place. I took control and have the power in our marriage now. She has made great changes to get on broad with the family. Including giving me access to her accounts and devices. She now knows I will drop her in a second if she ****s up.

As far as the other woman went. I don't talk to her anymore. I can't if I want my marriage to work from my side. It is something that I have to accept and my marriage deserved me to give it my all. So I don't know if she ever got divorced or not. I do know I wasn't her only guy at the time. And our time conversing and meeting was only about 4 weeks, with the last 2 weeks being the intimate part.

Someone mentioned I should have left my wife. I probably should have, and still wonder if I should. Hell, there's no guarantee I won't at some point in the future. I have a hard time forgiving what she did and have an even harder time getting it out of my head. I'm just one of those people that when wronged it sticks with me (Irish). I still come to these boards even though it happened 2 years ago and reconciliation seems to be working. I stuck around trying to work it out mostly because of my kids (3-6 at the time I found out). My parents divorced when I was 5. I know all too well how hard it can be to deal with step-moms and step-dads among the other things. It wasn't something I wanted them to have to deal with unless there was no other option. I would have once I was in a place of strength but was willing to put my own feelings aside for them. Now had the wife not come around I would have left. In fact there have been a couple of times since then where I was close to leaving. But as a friend told me time is on my side and I can always leave if I feel I need to.


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## Lefacade (Jan 10, 2014)

Actually I do have one regret about the revenge affair. It gave my wife some ammunition against me. If I bring up her affair(to her , counselor, whomever), she always makes sure to shove it back in my face that I had one too. It really pisses me of obviously because, her lack of commitment to the marriage is the reason it happened. And she chose to continue contact with the OM which is what drove me to "move on". She tries to frame them as having the same weight but it's crap. Yes, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but not all wrongs hold the same weight. 2 years vs 4 weeks are apples and oranges.

It's really a bull**** tactic but I guess somehow makes her feel better about what she did.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Lefacade,

Not to high-jack this thread, but why did you decide to R after your RA?

It seems there is still the problem of having a wife that betrayed you, and able to do it again. It also sounds like there is little remorse on her part.

My story feels like yours, except I decided not to look back. I don't consider my dating as a RA because it felt so good that there was no way I would go back. It made me run faster to a D.

2 1/2 years later it still feels good to be with someone new.

Hope your situation works out to your advantage.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Lefacade said:


> Actually I do have one regret about the revenge affair. It gave my wife some ammunition against me. If I bring up her affair(to her , counselor, whomever), she always makes sure to shove it back in my face that I had one too. It really pisses me of obviously because, her lack of commitment to the marriage is the reason it happened. And she chose to continue contact with the OM which is what drove me to "move on". She tries to frame them as having the same weight but it's crap. Yes, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but not all wrongs hold the same weight. 2 years vs 4 weeks are apples and oranges.
> 
> It's really a bull**** tactic but I guess somehow makes her feel better about what she did.


you ought to be pissed off by that (false) equivalency. It pisses me off just reading what you wrote, and it's not even my life! 

You have my empathy for sure. I don't think you should forgive her until you REALLY feel forgiveness. The sh*t where she draws the equivalence would be enough to make me cancel my forgiveness for something like this, or hold off further on offering it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Philat said:


> Matt: You yourself refer to your affair as a "revenge affair," so if it's revenge how could it not be because of your wife's A?


*
Because I knew better. Or at least, I should have done.*

I knew how badly my wife's affair had hurt me, yet I did the same thing to her.

Ironically I think my affair actually hurt me more than it hurt her.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Lefacade said:


> Actually I do have one regret about the revenge affair. It gave my wife some ammunition against me. If I bring up her affair(to her , counselor, whomever), she always makes sure to shove it back in my face that I had one too.


Happens all the time.
Another common ocurrence is the complete lack of ownership and remorse from the revenge cheater.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Happens all the time.
> Another common ocurrence is the complete lack of ownership and remorse from the revenge cheater.


I took ownership, remorse and a course of Seroxat because I was on the point of a nervous breakdown after what I did.


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## Lefacade (Jan 10, 2014)

Lovemytruck said:


> Lefacade,
> 
> Not to high-jack this thread, but why did you decide to R after your RA?
> 
> ...


Well mostly what I said above. The kids being so young and having lived through it myself. If my kids were teenagers or older I probably would have D once I woke up from the hurt.

While at first my wife was not in her right mind. Living a fantasy that was never going to work out. Once she came back to reality things changed. My wife has been remorseful and at this point will agree to anything I need to make me feel comfortable. Do I still have my worries? Of course, but like I said, now I have the knowledge and the will to leave at anytime I choose. That is quite empowering. So for now I'm willing to try and rebuild as long as I feel she is in 100%. If that changes, I have no problem leaving and she knows that.


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## Lefacade (Jan 10, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> you ought to be pissed off by that (false) equivalency. It pisses me off just reading what you wrote, and it's not even my life!
> 
> You have my empathy for sure. I don't think you should forgive her until you REALLY feel forgiveness. The sh*t where she draws the equivalence would be enough to make me cancel my forgiveness for something like this, or hold off further on offering it.


Believe me when she brings it up I'm not silent about it.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

I had plenty of reason. When family and friends want to "help" too many. I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror. I guess itz about whether rationalizing doing it can be done and then live it. Head thumper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

LFD
Next time it comes up is is used against you, I would look my spouse straight in the eye get into her space, and threaten, in an alpha stance as you can be, & firmly state, "Dont even dream about making this about me!"
Shut it down! Because it is about them... 

~sammy


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Lefacade said:


> Actually I do have one regret about the revenge affair. It gave my wife some ammunition against me. If I bring up her affair(to her , counselor, whomever), she always makes sure to shove it back in my face that I had one too. It really pisses me of obviously because, her lack of commitment to the marriage is the reason it happened. And she chose to continue contact with the OM which is what drove me to "move on". She tries to frame them as having the same weight but it's crap. Yes, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but not all wrongs hold the same weight. 2 years vs 4 weeks are apples and oranges.
> 
> It's really a bull**** tactic but I guess somehow makes her feel better about what she did.


I get what you're saying but having an affair, even if its just revenge, levels the playing field and you lose all rights to feel bad. An eye for an eye still leaves 2 people missing one eye. The hows and whys are really irrelevant at that point.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Lefacade said:


> Actually I do have one regret about the revenge affair. It gave my wife some ammunition against me. If I bring up her affair(to her , counselor, whomever), she always makes sure to shove it back in my face that I had one too. It really pisses me of obviously because, her lack of commitment to the marriage is the reason it happened. And she chose to continue contact with the OM which is what drove me to "move on". She tries to frame them as having the same weight but it's crap. Yes, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but not all wrongs hold the same weight. 2 years vs 4 weeks are apples and oranges.
> 
> It's really a bull**** tactic but I guess somehow makes her feel better about what she did.


Its like I have said before, one problem with having a revenge affair, you no longer have any basis to complain.

That's like someone who killed another person criticizing someone that killed two. Murder is murder.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Its like I have said before, one problem with having a revenge affair, you no longer have any basis to complain.
> 
> That's like someone who killed another person criticizing someone that killed two. Murder is murder.



I see your point, but don't necessarily agree. The WS still feels that they have the basis to complain about marriage issues that existed before the A, even after they have an A and contribute tons more problems and issues than existed before. Shouldn't they then lose their right to complain about issues in the M if one transgression cancels out the others??? Like was stated in another thread by Thorburn I believe it was (but could be wrong, and paraphrasing here), this is the way things operate in the court system, both criminals are found guilty and wrong, just some are more wrong than the other and thus do more time for their crimes.

Not all punishments are equal. Should I pay the same insurance rate hike because I did $5k worth of damage to my $30k car (that the insurance company had to pay to fix) than the person that totaled their $30k car *that the insurance company had to replace)? They are both car accidents so should the rate hikes be considered equally and thus be same???


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I see your point, but don't necessarily agree. The WS still feels that they have the basis to complain about marriage issues that existed before the A, even after they have an A and contribute tons more problems and issues than existed before. Shouldn't they then lose their right to complain about issues in the M if one transgression cancels out the others???


Yup. If there are problems in a relationship of mine, and my gf/wife/whoever, brought the issues to me instead of cheating, they would be listened to and worked on.

After cheating? Nope. They lost the right to complain after that IMO. But I do not lose the basis to complain about the cheating. In my prior post, I am comparing cheating to cheating. When two people are cheaters, they have no leg to stand on to complain about being cheated on. As opposed to not addressing problems in a marriage and the cheating that followed. 2 different problems.





> Not all punishments are equal. Should I pay the same insurance rate hike because I did $5k worth of damage to my $30k car (that the insurance company had to pay to fix) than the person that totaled their $30k car *that the insurance company had to replace)? They are both car accidents so should the rate hikes be considered equally and thus be same???


What you are talking about are accidents with financial consequences. Cheating is a choice, not an accident.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Its like I have said before, one problem with having a revenge affair, you no longer have any basis to complain.

That's like someone who killed another person criticizing someone that killed two. Murder is murder."

There is not always moral equivalency in these situations.

Two separate individuals with no connection?....your point is completely valid.

However, if a man kills my loved one and I hunt him down and kill him in revenge, I do not see these as morally equivalent, even if the law would say they are.

I would say he committed murder, while I believe mine would be an act of justifiable homicide.

And despite what the law says, I believe the majority of humans would agree with me.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> "Its like I have said before, one problem with having a revenge affair, you no longer have any basis to complain.
> 
> That's like someone who killed another person criticizing someone that killed two. Murder is murder."
> 
> ...


We are going to just have to agree to see it different ways.

I'm not a cheater. Never been one, never going to be one. And I'm not going to become one under the false assumption that its "just" in revenge and that I really can't be considered a cheater if it is for that purpose.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

vellocet said:


> That's like someone who killed another person criticizing someone that killed two. Murder is murder.


I don't like that analogy... It's more like someone murders someone you love. So you intentionally hunt them down and murder them. Both murder, motives are entirely different.

One was "?just because?"... the other was "payback in kind" with the full intent of murdering you for what you did. So even though the payback one is actually a higher offense because it was premeditated (1st degree murder).. I do morally see it as a lesser crime given the circumstance for 'why you made that choice you otherwise would not have considered'.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Yup. If there are problems in a relationship of mine, and my gf/wife/whoever, brought the issues to me instead of cheating, they would be listened to and worked on.
> 
> After cheating? Nope. They lost the right to complain after that IMO.
> [\QUOTE]
> ...


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Not trying to argue just get a sense where you are coming from, so if they complain in MC after the A, you would tell them that they lost the right and their actions cancel out all that was transpiring in the M prior to the A?


No, because I wouldn't be in marriage counseling if I had been cheated on. I'd be at a lawyer's office.




> T!t for Tat sort of thing, so now were even and we start fresh??


Cheating vs failure to address marital problems is not tit for tat.






> I agree it is a *choice* and not a mistake. So then we will stick with your murder scenario. The person that murdered 1 person should get the same time in prison sentenced as someone that 2 lives, or 10 lives for that matter?? They both made the same choice, but one made it many times more and did much more damage?


True, I would agree with that. But still, one murderer doesn't make himself/herself look better by criticizing the other. If one murderer called another murderer immoral, one would have to say, "really???"



> Would it matter if the one had multiple long term A's with multiple different people and the other only had 1 ONS? They should both be considered equal after being revealed?


IMO, yes.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Quote:
Would it matter if the one had multiple long term A's with multiple different people and the other only had 1 ONS? They should both be considered equal after being revealed?
IMO, yes.

I don't agree with this last part, I just can't


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

convert said:


> Quote:
> Would it matter if the one had multiple long term A's with multiple different people and the other only had 1 ONS? They should both be considered equal after being revealed?
> IMO, yes.
> 
> I don't agree with this last part, I just can't


Its just the way I see it. I don't care if someone cheated once on a ONS or multiple times. I would view them as the same. With regards to how I'd deal with each of them anyway. 
Would I view multiple long term partners as worse? Sure. But I wouldn't hold that person or the ONS person with any less contempt, and both would receive a pink slip and I'd move on.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

They're not equal. The first betrays a trust. The second doesn't betray trust because loyalty can't be expected until it's given again.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

Not sure this is exactly on-topic, but I believe it helps (IMHO) at least for the THREAT of one to always exist, though it might not exactly be "revenge." YMMV, but it seems like cheaters often cake-eat and walk all over spouses that they know will be faithful. 

When my wife was having an EA, she asked for a separation. The EA came first, but in her mind she asked for the separation so it wouldn't be "cheating" if something ended up happening. 

After some of the normal ineffective begging stuff, I said OK. I had not done much dating in my life, mostly due to a social disorder ( in retrospect, during my teens and early 20s I had numerous women throw themselves at me and I didn;t really know it). So part of clinging to my wife was because I really thought I couldn't get anyone else. And I guess she thought that, also (since I suppose that's how I presented myself). Of course, my wife already lined up a date for 2 days after I said OK to the separation. We setup a schedule for splitting the kids and each having a day to ourselves. 

When it was "my day" for the first time, I got on an online dating site and had multiple messages and chats going immediately. I had at least 5 offers to meet that day. This was not an "affair" site, and I did not indicate that I was single, either. I was upfront about the newness of the separation and the whole living situation. I met a couple that day, and ended up cancelling on some others and holding off on some/slowing down my account usage. There was simply no time to keep up with all the action. That first day ended up with a lot of making out in cars and public places and several propositions about hotels, and me deciding not to take things that far.

In addition to that, for a couple weeks I made sure to make myself go do things even if I was by myself. I went to the movies by myself. My wife would want to know who I went with. When I said no one, she called me a liar and it infuriated her. When things started heating up with one woman off the dating site, my wife went crazy- demanding to know everything about her, threatening to do things to prevent me from seeing her, and so on. My wife threw herself at me, telling me how much she wanted me. We had sex the day before we "separated." She said it was mechanical and detached and felt like 2 strangers, lacking the bond she needed. Once other women were interested, she's all of a sudden passionate about doing things to me. Saying she wanted another baby, all kinds of things (granted my wife might be b-s crazy). Then she started telling me she loved me all the time (which she hadn't said in months), and she got angry when I did not reciprocate. We were still doing family things with the kids- like all going to the movies or bowling, but not doing anything with each other. We did reconcile (not right away, but i don't want to get into that), but I'm pretty sure we never would have if I hadn't shown that I could easily replace her several times over within a day, at any time I felt like it. And I feel like our relationship has been better at times when she most dreads that I could.

So I've never really felt the need to have a revenge affair, but I think the same feelings are filled through knowing I COULD and carrying myself that way. 

YMMV- Many parts of my marriage don't fit some of the conventional wisdom here. My story isn't over.

I do have Revenge Fantasies, but they don't revolve around something as simple as an affair. I have something much better in mind and am waiting to read the stories or make my own of the perfect revenge for cheating.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> They're not equal. The first betrays a trust. The second doesn't betray trust because loyalty can't be expected until it's given again.


I might be able to go along with that. However would I date a person that has outright cheated OR cheating "just" for revenge? No. I'd avoid both types of cheater if the information was available.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

I had taken a fly-in camp job (mining) both to support my family and as part of a 180. 3 weeks in, 3 out. I told my wife I really didn't give a flying fvck what she did (or for that matter who) while I was away. All I was concerned about was that she take care of the children (7,8 &15) and stay sober doing it while I was gone.

We would work out how we were going to proceed in our relationship during the times that I was back.

Ended up meeting and seriously jibed with a smoking hot woman in camp on the last turn around in. Nothing happened but it was gonna. Also, during that stint, I got offered a different job (mining sales) for a major company that I couldn't turn down. Because my new job involved a lot of travel, she gave me her address and number and told me to look her up if I ever came through her neck of the woods.

About 6 months later, after things had gone from boiling over to a simmer in my marriage, I did.

I booked a room about 11 AM within walking distance of where she lived, bought some beer and went to visit. About 3 PM she said "why don't you stay here tonight?"

I said 'Hell Ya!" and told her I was gonna walk back to cancel my room and pick up my bag. 

On the way my youngest (daughter) called. 

"When are you coming home daddy. I miss you"

I kept the room.

If I'd carried through how could I expect to look her in the face and smile when I got home if I was unable to look in a mirror and face myself?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> After I received hard proof of my xw's affair, from the PI, I decided that there would be no R and go straight to D.
> 
> Every action has a reaction, so I decided on payback to both her and the OM.
> 
> ...


Sure it was asked, but did you get her permission to record her? Do you realize that people can use cameras to take 'screen captures', it doesn't take a genius to figure out a way to 'capture' it if they really wanted to.

You can protect your video file, but once it's decoded and streaming (past the password protection), people can do with it whatever they please. No matter how hard you try, you can't really protect something like that... so I'm not sure of the 'can't be downloaded' part.. if it's streaming, you're downloading it.

Think about it like this.. you play a protected MP3, I have a cassette player with a microphone, how do you stop me with your computer from recording that audio? Sure it won't be MP3 quality, but good enough to know what/who it is...


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm sorta going through this right now in a twisted kind of way. Been separated a little over 2 years, but in 24/7contact. Very poor boundaries ever established out of ignorance, and, or fear. Have zero idea of intimate life apart, have ask, but so little trust has been established yet. If others have been in the picture, I dont even know then how to fit that into the R as well. The pandora box that has been opened...

~sammy


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Its like I have said before, one problem with having a revenge affair, you no longer have any basis to complain.
> 
> That's like someone who killed another person criticizing someone that killed two. Murder is murder.


respectfully, but no. If the original affair is murder, the revenge affair is self-defense.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> respectfully, but no. If the original affair is murder, the revenge affair is self-defense.


Whether you see it that way or not, the revenge affair person becomes a cheater, and no decent person should want them after that, no matter how they try to excuse it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Its like I have said before, one problem with having a revenge affair, you no longer have any basis to complain.
> 
> That's like someone who killed another person criticizing someone that killed two. Murder is murder.


I can't agree with you. on this occasion. A person can recover from being cheated on. But they can't recover from being murdered.


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## Lefacade (Jan 10, 2014)

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. In my case my wife was a cake-eater. 5 months after I found out she was still sneaking around creating new email addys to talk with the guy. They were talking about having kids and getting married. After I had a vasectomy(nice, I know). At that point the marriage was a piece of paper only.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I can't agree with you. on this occasion. A person can recover from being cheated on. But they can't recover from being murdered.


I can recover from being cheated on...by murdering the relationship.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Despite my disgust of affairs due to my dad being a serial cheater, I would be lying if I said I never fantasized about it. But having learned alot about affairs, there is absolutely no way I could pull it off. I would have to sneak around and lie. I'm a terrible liar.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I don't need to prove to myself that "I still got it". I know that a lot of men find me attractive as I get hit on or checked out regularly enough. The thing that makes an RA cross my mind is the humiliation and degradation akin to a man feeling emasculated that I felt/feel as a result of his affair. I suppose that I'm a different animal from the stereotypical betrayed woman whereas the sex was really important and superseeded any emotional involvement in terms of impact of the affair. Resentment and bitterness also come to play here. BIG TIME. 

I was a deathly loyal person for nearly a decade and was constantly accused by him and even some of his family of cheating, only to have him do it to me. My loyalty, tested, questioned, denied and for what? So he could betray me! I wish he knew how bad it hurt me and I don't think he ever will. Humiliation is there too.

I'd like to say that I never would have revenge sex or an RA. I'm pretty sure that I would never but there is the temptation. The idea of a "hall pass" also crosses my mind. I think this way in terms of settling the score although I'm certain that it wouldn't and it would have repercussions. I have also discussed opening up our relationship but WS is firmly against that (to be honest I wasn't fully invested in the idea). Still, I find it curious that he can fvck other women and object to me doing the same.


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## ninnie (Feb 22, 2012)

I am not really interested in a revenge affair but I am so jealous of the times he was out having a good time. He works out of state and I stay at home....everyday!! I get excited to have to go to the grocery store! I would love to go to a bar and have a few drinks but I really worry that I would take it too far! If a man hit on me...I would be so tempted!!


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> This is why I think separation is no good unless both parties are going out and dating. There can be no trust that is verifiable. It is blind trust. When separating, if you can have blind trust, why are you separating?
> 
> So many advocate separating, and I think it's a good idea when two cannot live in the same residence. I don't think it's at all good for a reconciliation attempt. I tend to believe it's a test period to see if at least one of the parties wants to continue with another relationship, not continue working on the marriage.
> 
> ...


This is really interesting, why do you think this? I logged in this morning to actually start a thread asking about separations, R and such.


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