# When sex isn't the issue



## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Guys, particularly those with the hindsight of experience, I would appreciate your thoughts.

I've been on the site a few weeks and haven't really discussed the nagging question, so here it is: Should it matter?

To explain: Wife and I have been married 25 years. She was a conservative christian, and I was from a radically different world. Still, for my own reasons, I wanted a great marriage. I converted to her religion prior to the decision that I wanted to be with her.

Many are seeing the issue already. Over time, because of my past, I wanted my faith to be more about making a difference in the lives of others more on a practical basis, like though helping others. One gains esteem in this type of church through great attendance, having your act together, and sending your kids to the right school. Being the kind've guy who can stand his own when talking about the pre-christian implications of the Socratic methods into our beliefs doesn't.

Probably should mention that she's bipolar. In the bottom of the cycle, she can say things that are exptremely hurtful. Still, she's a great woman and tried to improve. Even at her best though, she had deep resentment issues. Counselor after counselor, and her psychiatrists told her that many of these were only a part of the mania. What I'm trying to say is that we were close, she was the only woman I saw in a crowded room, and I didn't let the words or actions hurt me. 

Now, in the mid forties, I've moved into a comfortable salary. College age kids are happy, but chose non-religious schools. They listen to normal music, but keep it low so it doesn't offend her.

My problem: Because she sees me as the leader in god's eyes, she literally sees our life as a failure. Even her depression is my fault because I did not lead them in a way that would overcome. I'm dead serious. As an alpha guy, I had daily devotions with the kids, because I enjoyed acting out the stories, but I didn't drag them to four services per week.

I want to end my life with being able to look at my wife and say that we had a great journey together. She'll say that she let her sexual frustration make her weak, and will always see it as a mistake. Believe me, after over a dozen couselors have told her of the need to release the resentment, and failed, its not going to happen.

Its hard to explain, but its not so much that she judges. This doesn't bother me. The problem is that she always thinks that marrying me was a big mistake. She even admits that I've been a good husband, but says that doesn't matter when I've failed to be the spiritual person I should be.

Please don't knock the religion. You have to understand that this is tied up in a complex mental illness. She works in a successful career, is respected, but the problem seems to focus on some inability to trust people who are not biologically connected, according to the doctors.

It fills me with guilt, but I no longer feel capable of staying married.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I am going to be honest and say that I could not stay with someone who put me down like that. 

Doesn't she know that there are very religious and spiritual people who have lost everything they owned in disasters, or have had husbands and wives pass away, or lost children? It isn't because of lack of spirituality, bad stuff sometimes happens to good people. Besides your life doesn't sound bad at all, she just seems like a glass half empty person.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Yeah religious fundamentalists are a hard nut to crack. The same thing that attracts them to their faith is what makes them disavow any responsibility for their own lives.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Syrum said:


> I am going to be honest and say that I could not stay with someone who put me down like that.
> 
> Doesn't she know that there are very religious and spiritual people who have lost everything they owned in disasters, or have had husbands and wives pass away, or lost children? It isn't because of lack of spirituality, bad stuff sometimes happens to good people. Besides your life doesn't sound bad at all, she just seems like a glass half empty person.


Its hard to express the feelings here. Our life isn't bad at all. I grew up poor, so so to pay three college tuition bills from the checking account without having to touch the savings? Nuff said. Others would ask why I have a problem, since the sex life is great. 

The problem is just that she would be better off emotionally if she married a guy who was fervant in his church attendance, and maybe a class teacher, instead of the guy who is told that he can't be a teacher because he doesn't believe in hell (me).

All along, I went under the assumption that if I blew her socks off, she would realize that it didn't matter. It does, and its not an area she will re-consider. Even with this, the problem is deeper, and more closely linked to the fact that she could never really trust someone who is not her blood relative.

I'll give an example. When our first child was born, I had never held a child. I was scared out of my mind, but determined to bond with her. My wife had a tough time of the pregnancy, so using a pump, she could sleep all night and leave most of the care to me. I held her all the time. Still, if our daughter would not stop crying, I knew my wife would know what to do, so I would let her hold the baby.

This made my wife furious. She lacks the ability to put things in perspective, due to her illness. she only saw that I would sometimes give her the baby. From a strong feminist background, this was insulting to her. Years later, her psychiatrist said that these feelings were more like hate. When the doctor told her that I was just scared, confirming what I had said all along, my wife began to hate herself. Twenty years later, though, I'm often told that I hated my children. In the mania stage, I find out that I destroyed the beauty of being a mother. All of this because I handed the baby to her a half dozen times. I'm being serious. This doesn't bother me as much, because I know the disease. The thing that does is when the mania passes, and she's dissapointed because of the choices she made in a husband who is 'not godly'..


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

And you two are still married?

What medication has she tried?

BTW - I'm a pharmacist.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

She is comparing herself with the women whose husbands are leaders in the church. 

In a church, a woman whose husband is active in their religion gets more respect from others. She wants that, she feels bad that she doesn't! 

Human, like to compare, like to feel they are important! 

Christianity can help people in some ways, but it can ruin people's lives if they are too involved. It can bring family together, it can also divide a family. 

That's why I prefer ZEN!


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## Married&Confused (Jan 19, 2011)

find new doctors or move on with your life.

my guess, without any medical education, is that these swings will get worse and you will be the target.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Conrad said:


> And you two are still married?
> 
> What medication has she tried?
> 
> BTW - I'm a pharmacist.


Yep, we're married. Regarding medications, you have to relaize that our church doesn't recognize mental illness as anything other than a spiriual weakness. Ultimately, I convinced her and she has tried many things. Problem is, any new doctor at first doesn't think she has a problem. Takes time for them to see that the anger is not always justified.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> She is comparing herself with the women whose husbands are leaders in the church.
> 
> In a church, a woman whose husband is active in their religion gets more respect from others. She wants that, she feels bad that she doesn't!
> 
> ...


Again, this is hard to explain. She doesn't compare herself. She's a good woman. Just has this fear that consumes her, telling her that she has made a mistake in choosing a husband, and is now making the best of a bad choice. 

At church, I'm the one they go to for financial advice, like how to avoid waste in the programs for the homeless we run. At work, I'm respected in my field. Most of the time, my wife and I have been happy together. It's just that the disapproval is becoming something I can't tolerate.

I have a tremendous apprehension about the guilt if we divorce, but I'm finding my way through it. The thought of one day marrying again is pretty scary. My brother divorced, and to go through what he does - again??? My daughter tells me that I am so blind that way.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Tough situation if you say she has mental problems. 

Does she really believe in hell? 

Does she believe if you don't go to church regularly then you won't go to heaven together? 

If she believes that, then your not being active in your religion can really bother her.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

My husband was raised as a witness, he is not active anymore. 

My father-in-law is not active either. 

My mother-in-law is really bothered, she views this her failure too. She is struggling a lot. 

What they believe is beyond people's comprehension. 

I have to attend their meetings so I can give my mother-in-law some peace. I don't want her to worry too much about us.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Halien said:


> Yep, we're married. Regarding medications, you have to relaize that our church doesn't recognize mental illness as anything other than a spiriual weakness. Ultimately, I convinced her and she has tried many things. Problem is, any new doctor at first doesn't think she has a problem. Takes time for them to see that the anger is not always justified.


Has your wife been diagnosed by an MD before? If so you should ask her to be clear to the current MD about that. Also she needs to be seeing a psychiatrist (pMD), not a GP or family physician--someone that specializes in psychomedicine. A good psychiatrist can make a huge impact.

And like I said if she's used medications before make sure the pMD knows that--they'll be able to adjust prescription, and get approval from an insurance co. much easier and quicker.

That said meds aren't going to solve a problem, just make it easier to address.

BTW, you are quite obviously a strong, thoughtful and well-meaning dude who values what you have if what you say is at all true, and I think you know this. You're giving it 100%, if that isn't enough, that's not your fault.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

less_disgruntled said:


> Has your wife been diagnosed by an MD before? If so you should ask her to be clear to the current MD about that. Also she needs to be seeing a psychiatrist (pMD), not a GP or family physician--someone that specializes in psychomedicine. A good psychiatrist can make a huge impact.
> 
> And like I said if she's used medications before make sure the pMD knows that--they'll be able to adjust prescription, and get approval from an insurance co. much easier and quicker.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comments.

It took about ten years to help her get to the point, but she did start seeing psychiatrists, and has multiple issues. The minute they begin to say that she needs to focus on her core beliefs, though, she pushes away. 

Certainly, all of us probably face issues about our spouse that dissapoints us to some degree, but its hard to describe this one. When I stumble, its gods way of trying to show me that I'm wrong. 

Through psychiatry, she's learned that her feelings about me are kind of like displaced feelings of her own failure. She is super critical of herself, and doesn't think that she deserves a positive afterlife experience. From the earliest days of our dating, I was a overwhelming for her. She declared that she intended to marry into the faith, in other words, be a wife of a minister. That was her life goal. I should have been mature enough to let her go, maybe, but the sexual chemistry was incredible. 

My school was in the drug capital of our state. I spent half my time in schools for the troubled kids, and learned to love lifting weights. Seriously, most of my fighting, though, was because I couldn't stand to see other kids being bullied. I had a reputation for going apes*** when that happened.

She never considered herself pretty, but there was something about her that hit me like lightening. In a fight where my friends and I were confronted by another larger group of guys, two of my best friends were almost killed. Thanks to the fact that one of the guys I was fighting produced a big pipe, my ankle was crushed. She wrote letters and visited me in the hospital. I changed alot in the next couple of years, and asked her out.

Sometimes, the drugs affect her in different ways, so they are always adjusting. Now, she has no friends, and even our kids avoid her because she sees everything through very practical lenses. In other words, she's extremely practical, and that sweet, joyful part of her is something the kids just think I imagined. Her psychiatrst thinks this is pretty normal for the problems she has.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

She says your marriage is a mistake, well mistakes can be corrected.

Stop blaming yourself. If your wife was married to Jesus himself, she would find several things to critisize him for. Her own children don't see the joyful kind woman you say she is.

You defend every bad behavior she demonstrates. Any advice someone gives you, you have an excuse for your wife.

She needs to take responsibility for her own problems. She somehow has convinced you that if her life isn't all sunshine and puppy dogs you are to blame. Don't feed into that mind game BS!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Halien said:


> She declared that she intended to marry into the faith, in other words, be a wife of a minister. That was her life goal. I should have been mature enough to let her go, maybe, but the sexual chemistry was incredible.
> .


 I am sorry, not jumping on you in your youth. BUt she wanted to marry a Preacher, thinks Meds are against scripture BUT the sex was hot & incredible before marraige (I assume she felt the same), she had no struggles here ?? I guess she can only blame *herself* for wanting to marry YOU, with her going against her own beliefs. 


When you combine a mental illness & add any kind of fundamentalist mindset to that, OH MY - it only mega exaggerates the orginal issues. Please don't blame yourself. 

I also attended a church where, although they are not against medication, the way they Preach, that Jesus is the Healer of ALL , with many standing up giving their glorious testimonies, it plays on the others that thier faith is somehow inadequate. 

A shame.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I am sorry, not jumping on you in your youth. BUt she wanted to marry a Preacher, thinks Meds are against scripture BUT the sex was hot & incredible before marraige (I assume she felt the same), she had no struggles here ?? I guess she can only blame *herself* for wanting to marry YOU, with her going against her own beliefs.
> 
> 
> When you combine a mental illness & add any kind of fundamentalist mindset to that, OH MY - it only mega exaggerates the orginal issues. Please don't blame yourself.
> ...


Thanks for the kind words. I always stumble for the right words to explain, but believe me, I think she should be mature enough to admit that what's done is done, then let go of the bitterness. She has dozens of books on it. In fact, the best way to know what's going on in her mind, deeper than what she says, is to just look at whatever book she's reading. Stuff like Who threw away my mind, or Overcoming Resentment.

Thing is (and I'm not beating myself up about it), I could see her as happy and content if she married into that life. Nothing we can do about that, though. For a while, though, when I accepted her faith, I believed it all. Its a rare faith, and probably not what alot of people are thinking. Over time, I began to question and settled on my own beliefs. So what I'm saying is that she would've never married me, despite it all, if she knew I would change.

In addition to my beliefs at the time, the sexual part was probably the only reason she changed her mind about me, and married. I'm very alpha, and intense, which is her Achilles heel. Not saying I'm like some kind of expert at it. Just an expert at her. She admits a weakness for the alpha types, but both of us have been faithful.


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