# Advice from Married Women



## sunchild15

I wanted to try yet one more time to try and find a solution to my sexless marriage. Been two years now, wife and I talk all of the time, work together , walks together, do fun things, go on trips, I am on purpose with career. Wife just checked out sexually. She is more into sleep and going through menopause. Last year when I suggested counselor, doctor and other ideas together she said and did everything to avoid and come up with excuses. we both exercise, both eat plant basd organic food, super positive life...

What do I do ? Last conversation we had months back was something that went in the direction, that I have it because we are married that she is the only person that I can have sex with , that she is not responsible to fulfill my needs if she does not feel like this. 

Yet, she will discuss future plans, buy a home, vacations, things we can work on together , projects etc, we do fun things, yet when it comes to intimacy, bedroom or anything around it - avoidance, she switches to TV or tired or some other excuse. I do not want to come off needy in any way...

I just have no idea what to do after my many self working on me attempts. We have a great family with daughter and I just feel like I do need her involvement and the time that has passed in my opinion will not us connecting in that way since its been so long...

How do I make head way ?
Someone suggested that if I am turned on to focus on pleasing myself with her next to me perhaps that would get her in the mood, by me doing me and get her warmed up to it . I do not want to come off needy in any way, I have not initiated with her, Just hold her hand, hug her, walk with her and kiss her .. That is as far as it goes...its kind of messing with my mind...

Any thoughts of suggestions for women who have been through the same with menopause? Will she get her libido back?
I really do not want to look elsewhere...I wanted to work on us, maybe I really need to go further with where I should go 
with this and what is she committed to ? What is the solution that works for us both ? I just feel lost in this ...

Thank in advance !


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## farsidejunky

Stop doing nice things for her. Be polite, but do not prioritize her. Go do things by yourself in the evening. 

Why would you want to encourage her to be comfortable in your discomfort? Some miniscule hope of her changing?

How has that worked for you so far?


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## TheDudeLebowski

Stop being so nice about it. Needs aren't being met and further she makes no attempts to change. So all of your being nice and proper about the subject didn't get you anywhere. Time to get mean and lay down the law. Would you wish this situation on your kid? Probably not, so why do you allow it for yourself? 

I would have one last come to Jesus talk. Just be frank about it. "I've tried xyz and it isn't working. The way this relationship is going doesnt work for me and I'm not going to continue to be in a sexless marriage." the ball is in her court. She either steps up or she doesn't. 

In the mean time, stop being all lovey dovey. That doesn't work. Your actions are showing her you are just fine with the arrangement just the way she has made it. So if she asks for a back rub, say no. Stop holding hands, stop cuddling. Start to detatch yourself from her. Find new hobbies. Go do something else fun and exciting for yourself. Hit the gym harder then ever. Get in the best shape of your life. Spend time away. Go camping or backpacking for a few days. Detatch yourself from this nightmare. 

She will either respond with indifference, at which time its probably a good idea to go see a lawyer and discuss divorce. Or she will realize her actions or lack their of are going to lose her her husband. Then she may snap out of it and realize what she is doing is a deal breaker by denying you sex. She will go see a doctor and she will start to pursue you as she sees you drifting away. 

Get mad about and try something different! No more Mr nice guy!


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## Herschel

Either put up with no more sex for the rest of your life, or leave.


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## WorkingOnMe

Time to detach and back off in a big way. No more holding hands. No more supportive talk. When she mentions a new house or vacation **** it down immediately and tell her your relationship isn’t in a place to make long term plans right now. Tell her the future is too uncertain. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl

LOL... you asked for input from married women and so far it's all been from men... welcome the TAM!

Most likely your wife feels that there is no reason for her to address this issue because you are being such a 'nice guy' about it. So I suggest that you start by getting the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy". Read it. Do what it says.

Your wife's lack of desire for sex could be from menopause. But no all woman lose their sex drive with menopause. I didn't and I know quite a few women who have not. 

It could be that the culture of your marriage simply became one where she lost interest in sex. There could be several reasons for this. But clearly doing what you have been doing is not the cure for it.. proof is in the fact that she won't even address the issue.

To get change, you have to change. 

The book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" is not going to tell you to be a SOB or be mean, etc. A "Nice Guy" is not really a nice person. It's a guy who I 'nice' to get what he wants and it's a huge turn off to women. It's passive aggressive.

After you work through the "NMMNG" book and make significant changes in yourself, you will probably see some huge changes in your wife.

At that point, it would be time to read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". The two of you need to read them and do the work that they say to do. They do address the need for sex in marriage.

Your wife is right that even if your have sexual needs, she does not have to fill them. Women are no longer property and can no longer be forced to have sex. But you also have rights here, and if she is not willing to do what is needed to have a good, active sex life with you, her husband, than you have the right to divorce her and go find a woman who would love to have a lot of hot sex with you. You might want to remind her of that.

There are things that your wife could do to reawaken her sexuality. Seeing a doctor, fixing anything physical and then seeing a sex therapist would go a long way to getting the sex life back into your marriage.


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## Diana7

The thing is with sex that even if we don't 'feel' like it , we can still make that decision to have sex because we love our spouse. We do it for them. We enjoy it because they are enjoying it, and guess what, we then even enjoy it ourselves. So having low libido shouldn't make any difference. 

I think that you need to make it very clear to her in a calm way, how vitally important sex is for you and that this present situation is affecting you very deeply and cant go on. That you want to remain faithful, and only want to have sex with her, but that being deprived of sex means that the temptations are very strong. 

You are giving and giving, but she is just taking it seems. Sex in marriage is very important for maintaining that emotional closeness as well, and is a great stress reliever. 

God is very wise, and He tell us not to deprive the other of sex for good reason. She doesn't have to 'feel' like it to do it.


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## cma62

“ If you do what you always do you’re going to get what you always got”
And that isn’t working well for you.

You need to upset the apple cart a bit by shaking up the perfect marriage that she is content with but you are not.
Menopause can play havoc....but not to all women.

The rest of your marriage seems good so as a wife that has a happy marriage she should realize you are not happy and try to rectify this.
As stated....she might not be in the mood but knowing you need this should give her the incentive to make you happy.

Be a little more aloof....don’t be so attentive and giving....because in her eyes....your needs aren’t being met and she knows this yet you’re pandering to her. Why should she change???

Shaking up the status quo might open her eyes to your discontent. If she loves and cares about you she should go out of her way to keep you happy.
That being said...her hormones might not enable her to be passionate and turned on but she can still make you feel loved.

Some men would rather not have “duty sex”....that is up to you.

2 years is a long time...very unfair.....don’t be a saint.....take the bull by the horns and have a serious conversation with her.

The only alternative if your wife is not willing to meet you half way is to leave and find a healthy sex life with another woman.
Your marriage sounds “too together” for that to be an option.... so don’t grovel and beg....back off with the niceties.....she might surprise you and step up realizing your indifference is something she can’t live with and will make an effort to meet your needs and enjoy it herself as well.


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## aine

sunchild15 said:


> I wanted to try yet one more time to try and find a solution to my sexless marriage. Been two years now, wife and I talk all of the time, work together , walks together, do fun things, go on trips, I am on purpose with career. Wife just checked out sexually. She is more into sleep and going through menopause. Last year when I suggested counselor, doctor and other ideas together she said and did everything to avoid and come up with excuses. we both exercise, both eat plant basd organic food, super positive life...
> 
> What do I do ? Last conversation we had months back was something that went in the direction, that I have it because we are married that she is the only person that I can have sex with , that she is not responsible to fulfill my needs if she does not feel like this.
> 
> Yet, she will discuss future plans, buy a home, vacations, things we can work on together , projects etc, we do fun things, yet when it comes to intimacy, bedroom or anything around it - avoidance, she switches to TV or tired or some other excuse. I do not want to come off needy in any way...
> 
> I just have no idea what to do after my many self working on me attempts. We have a great family with daughter and I just feel like I do need her involvement and the time that has passed in my opinion will not us connecting in that way since its been so long...
> 
> How do I make head way ?
> Someone suggested that if I am turned on to focus on pleasing myself with her next to me perhaps that would get her in the mood, by me doing me and get her warmed up to it . I do not want to come off needy in any way, I have not initiated with her, Just hold her hand, hug her, walk with her and kiss her .. That is as far as it goes...its kind of messing with my mind...
> 
> Any thoughts of suggestions for women who have been through the same with menopause? Will she get her libido back?
> I really do not want to look elsewhere...I wanted to work on us, maybe I really need to go further with where I should go
> with this and what is she committed to ? What is the solution that works for us both ? I just feel lost in this ...
> 
> Thank in advance !


Menopause can have a huge impact on the woman's libido and emotional well being too. I have been through, still going through the emotional roller coaster of the menopause.
The main thing is you educate yourself on what the menopause is all about and the impacts on the female and her partner. (Check out the Perimenopause Blog)
Secondly you have to be supportive and keep the channels of communication open. Men who make demands of their wives at this time, especially when the wife is really not feeling herself can do tremenduous damage to the marriage. In my case my marriage was in trouble and his lack of care and consideration just served to compound the problems till he stopped drinking and started to see.
Thirdly, ask her to go and have her hormones checked, she may need some form of HRT or bioidentical HRT to level out her hormones.

I believe the reason for the increase in grey divorces (mostly precipitated by women) is because of this. Women dedicate their lives to bringing up kids, sacrificing careers etc and then when they need support and understanding the men in their lives want things to be as they were before and make demands without any consideration of what their wife is going through.
The main thing is you keep communication open between you and voice your concerns about her and yourself.

I am concerned with the advice here, to dump your wife for more or better sex elsewhere, that type of advice is short sighted and not helpful.

http://www.healthywomen.org/content/blog-entry/will-your-marriage-survive-menopause


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## Married but Happy

Unless she realizes that she could lose you, she won't have any motivation to work on the problem. For her, it's NOT a problem. So, you need to MAKE it _her_ problem.

I suggest you distance yourself. Stop meeting her emotional and companionship needs. Don't be unkind or unpleasant - just disengage, and only deal with practical, household issues, and don't offer affection. Make male friends, and take up some outside activities, join a gym, and spend time on those, without her. Keep this up even if she offers sex - enjoy it if she does, but keep distant otherwise. Any such behavior needs to become an _established_ behavior, otherwise it is just a ploy (perhaps even unconscious) to reestablish the previous status quo. If she asks why the change, you can tell her that her lack of interest in physical intimacy is pushing you away, and you are finding other outlets for your frustration.

Eventually, things may change for the better. If not, you'll be well-positioned to leave.


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## TheDudeLebowski

EleGirl said:


> LOL... you asked for input from married women and so far it's all been from men... welcome the TAM!


Lol, but we all agree and are giving practically the same advice. so its all good


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## Rob_1

It's different for each woman going through menopause. But after two years, my friend it is time for you to realize that this will be the rest of your life since you are doing nothing that would get the message across. It is time that consequences be known and felt, but you must also be ready to lose the marriage. It will be that or just accept it and live in a sexless marriage. I personally did leave my first wife, but just after a few months. I wasn't willing to live my life like that. Time prove me right about her.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Another not-a-woman here. Rather, a man like you in a similar circumstance.

I'll give this in three parts: 1. Understanding, 2. Action, 3. Result

1. It's hard for a man to fully comprehend what a woman goes through at this point in life. We have no equivalent. What I do understand is that the hormonal changes can wreak havoc on a woman't mental, emotional, and physical states. There are associated thoughts which may or may not accompany these changes, but if they do they are more subconscious and less out in the open so even she may not be cognizant of them even as they drive her behavior. Most notably, the door has been irrevocably shut on reproducing. For many, this creates a sense of loss of purpose in life, even among those who have had no desire to reproduce for a long time It's not logical, but it is deep in the biological imperative for many. For my wife it was an especially harsh double-whammy since she had been a stay at home mom for 23 years and the last of our three fledglings left the nest right as menopause was really taking over. _No matter what you do, some level of compassion is in order. _

2. So what can you do? For her, be understanding and compassionate. For yourself, not a whole lot as so much rests with how she handles it (more on this later). This varies tremendously from woman to woman as all those mental, emotional, and physical effects manifest differently, and to different degrees. Many have said stop going overboard trying to please and comfort her. As long as she has no innate desire, and she's getting all her needs fulfilled, she has no motivation to keep the sexual element of the relationship alive. There is some truth in this and it is generally your best chance of reeling her back into the bedroom ...

... but ...

3. This may or may not be something you find fulfilling. When I stopped catering to my wife so much, started spending more time at the gym/on my bike, engaging in my other hobbies I enjoy, she became far more attentive. Her menopause was making intercourse uncomfortable as well as increasing her susceptibility to urinary tract infections. But suddenly, she was amenable to non-intercourse forms of sex, which was new for her. For the first time in 30 years, she was willing to go for oral for more than just a quick south of the border kiss. She expressed a willingness to do some really far out things (for her--they would still be quite mild in the fulls spectrum of sexual activity). It seemed like our sex life may be entering a wonderful new phase. Well, better late than never, right?

... but ...

between the triple whammy of menopause, new and sudden empty nest status, and my focusing on myself, she has gotten clingy. This is certainly driving the newfound sexual willingness. I can't tell how much is coming from a place of love/desire for intimacy, and how much is coming from a place of fear. She has never been the type to put someone else first, so I can't help think it's mostly the latter. 

Add to this that she (God love her, is straight up honest and straightforward) did admit that she has no desire (understandable, but still horribly disappointing). So I could take that as a sign of how much she loves me that she is taking an interest in pleasing me even when shes not into sex any more. Or I could take it that she's just worried about losing me. No pleasure, just performance. Transactional. Not satisfying to me. I'm just not wired to enjoy it if she's only doing it as an act of service. I need her desire _more _than I need my orgasm. 

That's why I said above there may not be much you can do--it all depends on what you are willing to accept. If it's just someone happy to service you, you may be able to pull that off. If it's an equally desiring and enthusiastic partner, that's a whole extra level of challenge and unlikelihood of success.


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## uhtred

In general I agree, but there are some people who refuse to believe that sex is important. (like my wife). A low libido shouldn't matter, but it does. 

They may have sex under threat of being divorced, but won't do it just to make their partners happy because they believe that it is not a reasonable thing to request. 




Diana7 said:


> The thing is with sex that even if we don't 'feel' like it , we can still make that decision to have sex because we love our spouse. We do it for them. We enjoy it because they are enjoying it, and guess what, we then even enjoy it ourselves. So having low libido shouldn't make any difference.
> 
> I think that you need to make it very clear to her in a calm way, how vitally important sex is for you and that this present situation is affecting you very deeply and cant go on. That you want to remain faithful, and only want to have sex with her, but that being deprived of sex means that the temptations are very strong.
> 
> You are giving and giving, but she is just taking it seems. Sex in marriage is very important for maintaining that emotional closeness as well, and is a great stress reliever.
> 
> God is very wise, and He tell us not to deprive the other of sex for good reason. She doesn't have to 'feel' like it to do it.


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## Herschel

There is very little evidence any of us are men.


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## *Deidre*

Does she masturbate? I find it hard to imagine that she's never getting off...at all.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Unless you got married rather late in life, I would hope that you have expressed your need for desire in sex rather that duty. If she didn't get it all along, she isn't going to change later. Especially if she only saw sex as something she gets out of it physically and now she doesn't find it physically enjoyable for herself anymore. That shows she really doesn't get you at all and I dont understand how you can be married to someone who doesnt get you for so long and you wind up in a situation like the last two posters.

I'm fairly young but we understand each other very well. The world is a stage. You can act your way through your job, through uncomfortable social situations, through interactions with someone you loath. All that stuff people do practically on the daily. I don't care who you are, you can think of a plethora of times where your spouse acted his or her ass off to get through a situation and nobody but you and them were the wiser. 

You mean to tell me they can't throw on the act for you? They can, they just don't want to. So then they come off as clingy or it comes off disingenuous. You mean to tell me you can't put on the Oscar winning performance you've done in every other situation in life for your spouse? You absolutely can. What's in it for you? The person you proclaim to love more than anyone actually feels that love from you.

I get sick of people who roll over and allow their spouses to stop showing their love in the best way you receive it. I get sick of excuses for why you cant put on your acting skills to provide the love your spouse requires of you. You do it for everyone else! You can't do it for your spouse? 

Also. How is it that someone can be married for 15-20+ years and you don't know what makes them tick and they dont know what makes you tick? That is absurd! They know, they just stopped placing your needs above theirs and vise versa. Either that or you have no ability to communicate your needs to one another because you are scared. You have nothing to fear but fear itself and your fear of rocking the boat landed you in this situation to begin with. 

So you go out there and you shake the hell out of that boat! If you aren't happy and you keep trying to express that without creating waves and it never works, you shake the chit out of that boat. Be prepaired to walk if that doesn't change things. End of story really. A little boat rock and an "oh I'm just kidding" won't work. It doesn't ever work. 

When that boat is rocking they either go "oh chit I gotta steady this damn thing!" and they step up and do what need to be done to steady the ship. Either that or they grab their life vest and just do minimum effort to hang on. Grounds to consider divorce, but you keep rocking that boat until they give up and you divorce or they muster up all that is within them to right the ship. Even better when divorce is concerned they grab their life vest and swim away. And then its over. The chit storm has passed and you find calm waters with beautiful sunsets to sail in. 

Too many people just sit in the storm and wonder why it is raining on them and feel sorry for themselves. Oh boo freaking hoo. I don't feel sorry for you. And too many people only rock the boat enough to live in limbo of weather or not this storm is going ever pass, only doing just enough to stay on the edge of the storm. That action will never lead you to calm waters with pink and purple blow job sunsets. It will only lead to "well I'm not happy, but its better than before" I still don't feel sorry for you. 

You have to take a stand for your own happiness in life. That doesn't mean you have to be a selfish person. Bringing others joy should make you happy. If it doesn't, well you aren't marriage material and father/mother material and probably a sociopath, so I don't care about you anyway. I hope you wallow in misery. Likewise if you're married to a person who has no capacity to bring you joy and happiness and you have been married to them for 15 years, 20 years, I have no sympathy for you either. You mean to tell me you never saw this coming? You can look at all of their behaviors and this came out of left field? I dont buy it. People change, but not overnight. If you refused to see the change coming on, that is again on you. You should have rocked the boat when they were brewing up a storm, but you didn't. You were too scared and now you find yourself tying to steady a ship that is already sinking. Again, that is all on you. 

OP, rock the damn boat already. Your feeble attempts are getting you nowhere.


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## toblerone

Herschel said:


> There is very little evidence any of us are men.


quite the contrary

there are no women on the internet.


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## LaReine

Could she possibly be embarrassed?
Maybe she has other problems? 
I know nothing of menopause as I am a while away from it but I recall my mother saying she suffered from continuous infections (cystitis, uti etc) in the first few years as her body changed.

Mum also had no sex drive and said the few times they tried, it was quite painful- but she talked to dad about it. That's the main issue.

The problem isn't that she won't have sex with you (though that is an issue). It's that she refuses to talk about it and ignore your needs.

Usually I disagree with the "be mean back" approach, but I think there is some merit to it.
Not being mean but showing her that she is the problem.

Pull away, stop being affectionate all the time (unless you want to) and refuse to discuss anything until she discusses sex.

Tell her you are going to do this first though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## msrv23

I'm not an expert but somehow I don't like the idea of witholding affections. Just as witholding sex on purpose to make a point of our needs not being met. Personally I make such point by saying directly that my needs are not being met and express how I feel about it, how important it is to me that my husband cares about meeting my needs. And if not, that I wouldn't want to be together.

In my case there are some needs not being met. Emotional ones. My affections gradually disappearing is not coz of witholding but rather because my emotional attraction and bond is fading. But I've told my husband that I won't continue anymore and as he felt danger, he finally tried to do something about it.

So IMO, tell her how you feel. How you miss physical intimacy. For men often is not only physical, this is their way of bonding and women might not always understand it. But tell your wife how important it is to you that she cares about it and seek a therapist for your sake. Then give her some time. Talk again. If she doesn't change then tell her you can't accept that she wouldn't care about your needs.
Witholding affections can sometimes seem guilt tripping and forcing the other to comply, which can create more resistance. Trying to appeal for empathy first can be nicer. If it doesn't work then let her know you don't accept it.


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## EleGirl

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Lol, but we all agree and are giving practically the same advice. so its all good


I know... just thought it was funny. :grin2:


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## WilliamM

Don't be affectionate, even if you do want to be. Be polite, but distant. Be sure she knows it is because she thinks it is appropriate to withhold sex. Communicate.


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## Mr. Nail

This is the saddest thread I have ever read. Or perhaps, it's just not a good day for me to think about this. On the one hand we are being told to toughen up and get serious. Being nice is manipulative and all of that. Quickly followed by the warning that if we even dare to ask, we deserve a quick divorce. Joined with instruction to be supportive. Then there is instruction to study and understand what menopause is doing to her, coupled with repeated assurances that it is different for every woman and that there is no way to predict what it will be like. 

Let's just keep this simple. If someone wants to have sex, they will be doing it. If someone doesn't want to have sex they will avoid it. Simple, no psycho babble, no generalized excuses, just I don't want to, and I'm not going to.

Now since, Men are still property and can be forced to financially support other more free persons, You have two choices. 
Keep giving her homes and vacations and cuddles, and enjoy it as best you can.
or Get divorced and let her buy those things with her share of the marital assets, and as much of your future income as she can talk a judge into. 

I've struggled with that decision. It's not easy. My only real advice is to get into a hobby you enjoy, alone. Spend as much time, money, attention on it as you want to. I highly recommend fly fishing, (though I don't fish) as there is no limit to the amount you can spend on it. Equipment can be very expensive (if you want it to be). You can spend as much, or as little time, as you need to distract your mind from your sexual and emotional frustration. You may think this is silly, but most men do some form of this.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Mr nail, you just suggested what most of us have. Detatch and find your own hobbies. Doing something for yourself with no expectations from your spouse isn't manipulation. If you spouse feels you slipping away and wants to keep their marriage, they step up. If the let you detach and don't seem to care, you are going to stay married for what exactly? Money? If a few bucks is worth your happiness then you have made your choice. But with that, you can't sit around and ***** and moan about how unfair life is. Your choice to stay in that BS after all.


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## sunchild15

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate this very much. Yesterday was our anniversary. I know we also live in this world where there are so many expectations around holidays and what we are supposed to do. Actually on Halloween I had a dream, the dream was about to stop doing so much, not just with wife but look at how hard I work giving to people in life. I got this huge insight that I am a GIFT! I do not have to do always be doing something for someone in order to please them. I did not get any card for my wife or gifts...I did not get one from her either, but a magical thing happened where we did have sex yesterday. I must say that it felt very good, initially a bit nervous since its been a while. 

I definitely do get what people go through these days, as I have observed living in a huge city with financial expectations to make more and more and more and more... All of the illusion of people having to be BUSY .. ALL of the time, hustling, when your in that position - I must say its much harder to create space to relax and just BE, Connect... Because there are so many things your doing in order to provide and handle the cost of living... That is just what I see, between kids and a busy city - I must say it can suppress the romance, add a business on top and some issues around health / menopause.. Right 

Anyway the key here is to keep the flow. Value my Gift that I "AM" not necessarily being in a pleasing mode or doing sooo much. Hey, honestly it would blow my mind if we had sex a few times per week.. I do read some of the comments on here of people who are having sex 3-5 times per week and that would be amazing synergy and awesome, I think many of these people should be THANKFUL! Grateful ...I guess you get what you create in life.. I see some of these people complaining that even though they have lots of sex, certain things could be better, more variety ...

It goes to show that all things are possible... I would love to hear more from Moms, on how they create a space for romance, intimacy and sex, with kids, jobs, businesses and living in expensive city. I would love to hear how these things can create space for more fun, That would be inspirational as well ...

I will keep all updated, and I an OPEN To any advice that would help me connect more with the wife and create a juicer passionate relationship with her , open up adventure and more  I definitely do not want to see things go far and few between, perhaps I should create something in order for us to spend more time frequently , obviously if I can get her turned on to the idea ...


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## sunchild15

No, she is not ..I do not see her doing that anywhere, in bed, in shower or anywhere I really just think she is overwhelmed mentally with business, work, child and things to do. . Before we met she was very to herself. She even said that the best time in her life was when she was by herself where she just had to worry about herself. But she also does pick up on people's energy and if she is somewhere around lots of people at time it can exhaust her ...

The good news is last night she started touching me, it was our anniversary. I asked her to touch me more that it felt good and it led to her touching me sensually for quite some time, then me making out with her, kissing her all over, everywhere and us having SEX. That was great. I made sure that I did not rush anything and let is all build so she would get warmed up - a lot ...

But no, she does not masterbate a few years ago she woke up in the morning doing that and wanted sex, but again that has been rare...
because most of the time its hard to wake her up or disturb her in bed, because she gets so moody if she does not have her space...

I was thinking myself if I am horny and turned on, perhaps I should next to her and feel good myself, perhaps if I did that , I would feel good, and it would be contagious to get her going ...instead of me expecting so much from her : generate it myself and be next to her, before I have thought if I did that in bed, I wonder if what she would say - but its worth trying it for the sake of me feeling good ...


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## Diana7

sunchild15 said:


> Thanks for your advice. I appreciate this very much. Yesterday was our anniversary. I know we also live in this world where there are so many expectations around holidays and what we are supposed to do. Actually on Halloween I had a dream, the dream was about to stop doing so much, not just with wife but look at how hard I work giving to people in life. I got this huge insight that I am a GIFT! I do not have to do always be doing something for someone in order to please them. I did not get any card for my wife or gifts...I did not get one from her either, but a magical thing happened where we did have sex yesterday. I must say that it felt very good, initially a bit nervous since its been a while.
> 
> I definitely do get what people go through these days, as I have observed living in a huge city with financial expectations to make more and more and more and more... All of the illusion of people having to be BUSY .. ALL of the time, hustling, when your in that position - I must say its much harder to create space to relax and just BE, Connect... Because there are so many things your doing in order to provide and handle the cost of living... That is just what I see, between kids and a busy city - I must say it can suppress the romance, add a business on top and some issues around health / menopause.. Right
> 
> Anyway the key here is to keep the flow. Value my Gift that I "AM" not necessarily being in a pleasing mode or doing sooo much. Hey, honestly it would blow my mind if we had sex a few times per week.. I do read some of the comments on here of people who are having sex 3-5 times per week and that would be amazing synergy and awesome, I think many of these people should be THANKFUL! Grateful ...I guess you get what you create in life.. I see some of these people complaining that even though they have lots of sex, certain things could be better, more variety ...
> 
> It goes to show that all things are possible... I would love to hear more from Moms, on how they create a space for romance, intimacy and sex, with kids, jobs, businesses and living in expensive city. I would love to hear how these things can create space for more fun, That would be inspirational as well ...
> 
> I will keep all updated, and I an OPEN To any advice that would help me connect more with the wife and create a juicer passionate relationship with her , open up adventure and more  I definitely do not want to see things go far and few between, perhaps I should create something in order for us to spend more time frequently , obviously if I can get her turned on to the idea ...


What an amazing dream, and what it taught you was very wise. 
We aren't rich, we don't strive after money and things, we are both easy to please, happy with the simple things in life, and are content. Today it seems that we must all be busy busy busy all the time, getting more and more stuff, but in the end its our attitude that matters. Being thankful for a good husband or wife even if the marriage isn't quite what we would like is so important. See what we have and not what we don't. Seeing that our glass is 90% full and not 10% empty. 
Tell you wife each day one thing that you love and respect about her. Words are so important and so is what we think about. 
Tell her how thankful you are to have her and how much you love being with her. Tell her she is beautiful and precious to you.

A woman who feels loved and secure is far more likely to want to have sex. Also if she feels she is still beautiful and appealing to her husband.


----------



## sunchild15

Perhaps there are other perceptions and filters going around in this external world, because I have witnessed it. Some people who are told positive things, have trouble really getting and receiving them. I know there have been many times I have told my wife she is pretty and been flirty with her and she is like ok. Perhaps women need to really get that. I just was watching a video this morning a friend sent me sharing how many women are able to share their feelings because its part of how women operate. Women talk to women and its ok to share feeling. In the society there has been programming from parents and culture that MEN, need to be strong, the director, a rock, can not show all of their emotions because women will not feel stable and trust... I think if we all GOT each other and we cared for others in the respect that your partner IS YOU... I feel like this connection and one-ness would empower a team, relationship and marriage to be strong and full of life. Once we get in these programs of Women need to be strong on their own and do not need men for anything and MEN are strong and will not be taking advantage of by women etc , we start creating patterns of this AVOIDANCE, CONFLICT, and disconnection, yet we want this awesome romantic happy ending type of life when we are in the middle of a battle between each other, the same person that we want to love, because by nature our egos separate us from others, we fall into the programming we have around us, even if relationships there are programs, triggers and situations that need to be shattered so we can become one ...I think right now, men and women need to come together and look at where the voices are really coming from ....


----------



## john117

Please read the book below - success is not a point but a journey. What you are seeing is ABC sex, anniversary, birthday, and Christmas. 

The Soul of a New Machine https://g.co/kgs/3g2fkx


----------



## Masodipstick

sunchild15 said:


> I wanted to try yet one more time to try and find a solution to my sexless marriage. Been two years now, wife and I talk all of the time, work together , walks together, do fun things, go on trips, I am on purpose with career. Wife just checked out sexually. She is more into sleep and going through menopause. Last year when I suggested counselor, doctor and other ideas together she said and did everything to avoid and come up with excuses. we both exercise, both eat plant basd organic food, super positive life...
> 
> What do I do ? Last conversation we had months back was something that went in the direction, that I have it because we are married that she is the only person that I can have sex with , that she is not responsible to fulfill my needs if she does not feel like this.
> 
> Yet, she will discuss future plans, buy a home, vacations, things we can work on together , projects etc, we do fun things, yet when it comes to intimacy, bedroom or anything around it - avoidance, she switches to TV or tired or some other excuse. I do not want to come off needy in any way...
> 
> I just have no idea what to do after my many self working on me attempts. We have a great family with daughter and I just feel like I do need her involvement and the time that has passed in my opinion will not us connecting in that way since its been so long...
> 
> How do I make head way ?
> Someone suggested that if I am turned on to focus on pleasing myself with her next to me perhaps that would get her in the mood, by me doing me and get her warmed up to it . I do not want to come off needy in any way, I have not initiated with her, Just hold her hand, hug her, walk with her and kiss her .. That is as far as it goes...its kind of messing with my mind...
> 
> Any thoughts of suggestions for women who have been through the same with menopause? Will she get her libido back?
> I really do not want to look elsewhere...I wanted to work on us, maybe I really need to go further with where I should go
> with this and what is she committed to ? What is the solution that works for us both ? I just feel lost in this ...
> 
> Thank in advance !



Do you think that she thinks that your attitude is that she owes you sex and could this be part of the problem? When you did have sex, what was in it for her? If you were satisfied, but she wasn't, why would she be interested? If she suggested you try something she liked, did you take heed? As for many folks suggesting that you be less nice or unkind, well that could just give her another reason not to be interested. 



> Last year when I suggested counselor, doctor and other ideas together she said and did everything to avoid and come up with excuses.


This is not okay for her to dismiss the issue and your concerns any more than it is or would be for you to dismiss her concerns. How will you deal with the issue if she is stonewalling?
You deserve an answer to your concerns and I would tell her so. The issue needs to be discussed honestly and openly and if you feel that her refusal to do so may threaten your marriage, say so. 



> She is more into sleep and going through menopause.


 Perhaps at this time in her life this is the best she can muster. At the very least she should see her family doctor to examine and treat the cause of her malaise but first and foremost for her physical and mental health and well being and not because you need to get to the bottom of why she isn't interested in sex. If it seems to her your kindness and hand holding etc towards her isn't as much genuine as it is as a bid to get your sexual needs addressed then this would be frustrating to her too. 

So frankly, I haven't a clue. Just some food for thought.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Get into backpacking. Seriously! Here is the thing, you are pretty much all alone out there. You will occasionally see another hiker on the trail, but those are few and far between if you pick the right spots. The other part, no cell service when you get in the backcountry. No chance to check an email or text message or anything else at all. You become disconnected and completely alone with your own thoughts. 

Not to mention it is a great workout and you will see some of the most beautiful scenery while out there. You can take a weekend here and there throughout the year. She can too. She loves the solitude, she can have it out there. Competely alone. Its a great way to unwind and disconnect for a couple days. I usually do about 6 trips per year myself with a couple of week long trips in the mix and a few 2-3 nighters. You've never had a better burger than after a long trek in the backcountry, and there is something about that shower when you get home after not taking one for 5-7 days straight that is absolutely magical. 

That is my little slice of heaven for sure. But I was a kid who used to dream of being a hermit. I really love my alone time and being away from people. How I ended up in sales is beyond me. I have the perfect escape plan though, every other month. Be careful, because it is downright addicting! Give it a shot or consider it. Based on how your wife and I think alike in terms of alone time, it may be her best medicine. Might be wonderful for you as well.


----------



## aine

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Another not-a-woman here. Rather, a man like you in a similar circumstance.
> 
> I'll give this in three parts: 1. Understanding, 2. Action, 3. Result
> 
> 1. It's hard for a man to fully comprehend what a woman goes through at this point in life. We have no equivalent. What I do understand is that the hormonal changes can wreak havoc on a woman't mental, emotional, and physical states. There are associated thoughts which may or may not accompany these changes, but if they do they are more subconscious and less out in the open so even she may not be cognizant of them even as they drive her behavior. Most notably, the door has been irrevocably shut on reproducing. For many, this creates a sense of loss of purpose in life, even among those who have had no desire to reproduce for a long time It's not logical, but it is deep in the biological imperative for many. For my wife it was an especially harsh double-whammy since she had been a stay at home mom for 23 years and the last of our three fledglings left the nest right as menopause was really taking over. _No matter what you do, some level of compassion is in order. _
> 
> 2. So what can you do? For her, be understanding and compassionate. For yourself, not a whole lot as so much rests with how she handles it (more on this later). This varies tremendously from woman to woman as all those mental, emotional, and physical effects manifest differently, and to different degrees. Many have said stop going overboard trying to please and comfort her. As long as she has no innate desire, and she's getting all her needs fulfilled, she has no motivation to keep the sexual element of the relationship alive. There is some truth in this and it is generally your best chance of reeling her back into the bedroom ...
> 
> ... but ...
> 
> 3. This may or may not be something you find fulfilling. When I stopped catering to my wife so much, started spending more time at the gym/on my bike, engaging in my other hobbies I enjoy, she became far more attentive. Her menopause was making intercourse uncomfortable as well as increasing her susceptibility to urinary tract infections. But suddenly, she was amenable to non-intercourse forms of sex, which was new for her. For the first time in 30 years, she was willing to go for oral for more than just a quick south of the border kiss. She expressed a willingness to do some really far out things (for her--they would still be quite mild in the fulls spectrum of sexual activity). It seemed like our sex life may be entering a wonderful new phase. Well, better late than never, right?
> 
> ... but ...
> 
> between the triple whammy of menopause, new and sudden empty nest status, and my focusing on myself, she has gotten clingy. This is certainly driving the newfound sexual willingness. I can't tell how much is coming from a place of love/desire for intimacy, and how much is coming from a place of fear. She has never been the type to put someone else first, so I can't help think it's mostly the latter.
> 
> Add to this that she (God love her, is straight up honest and straightforward) did admit that she has no desire (understandable, but still horribly disappointing). So I could take that as a sign of how much she loves me that she is taking an interest in pleasing me even when shes not into sex any more. Or I could take it that she's just worried about losing me. No pleasure, just performance. Transactional. Not satisfying to me. I'm just not wired to enjoy it if she's only doing it as an act of service. I need her desire _more _than I need my orgasm.
> 
> That's why I said above there may not be much you can do--it all depends on what you are willing to accept. If it's just someone happy to service you, you may be able to pull that off. If it's an equally desiring and enthusiastic partner, that's a whole extra level of challenge and unlikelihood of success.


A well written and insightful piece. However, one thing I should point out, desire for men is usually hormonally driven (level of testosterone) same with desire for women. To state that her level of desire is akin to her level of love for you is absolutely a misnomer. To tell a women that she must control her hormonal changes and act as if the changes are not occurring is similar to a wife telling her husband to stop growing his beard and ensure he wakes up every morning with a clean shaven face.

I suspect many husbands do not realize this. Women have no control over their hormonal changes. Many experts in this area will tell you that the only given is that if the marriage has been fairly good then the menopause may cause ripples but they will get through it, but if the H has been an obnoxious, self- centered and neglectful man, then he is in for the ride of his life and probable divorce.

The Female Brain by Dr Luann Brizendine, writes about the low levels of hormones makes women far less accomodating and nuturing as before. Whereas before she sacrifices for her kids and husband she becomes less inclined to do so in menopause and starts to think more of herself. Personally, I feel it is about time too! >


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

aine said:


> A well written and insightful piece. However, one thing I should point out, desire for men is usually hormonally driven (level of testosterone) same with desire for women. To state that her level of desire is akin to her level of love for you is absolutely a misnomer. To tell a women that she must control her hormonal changes and act as if the changes are not occurring is similar to a wife telling her husband to stop growing his beard and ensure he wakes up every morning with a clean shaven face.
> 
> I suspect many husbands do not realize this. Women have no control over their hormonal changes. Many experts in this area will tell you that the only given is that if the marriage has been fairly good then the menopause may cause ripples but they will get through it, but if the H has been an obnoxious, self- centered and neglectful man, then he is in for the ride of his life and probable divorce.
> 
> The Female Brain by Dr Luann Brizendine, writes about the low levels of hormones makes women far less accomodating and nuturing as before. Whereas before she sacrifices for her kids and husband she becomes less inclined to do so in menopause and starts to think more of herself. Personally, I feel it is about time too! >


Hmmm.... 
I'm having a hard time finding where I said or even implied that "level of desire is akin to her level of love." 
I thought I was quite clear that the drop in desire was hormonally driven.

Or that "she must control her hormonal changes and act as if the changes are not occurring."
I thought I was quite clear that there are forces at work here beyond her control.


----------



## sunchild15

So what is the answer. While I do understand the hormonal changes impacting a woman. It seems my wife spends hours in the kitchen and keeping herself busy. I must say its a bit frustrating and I keep trying to look at what can be done differently. I am there for her with support, I hold her hand and we have conversations. What do I do with me wanting to have sex and her just wanting to sleep or watch TV? I wanted to get some advice from a women on this. Again, have attempted to get help from counselor and select a doctor.

She seems to be super irritable and tends to get bent out of shape about the smallest things. Like how I cut a piece of fruit or focusing on negative things and getting easily irritated.

Lately I have just been thinking a bunch about what reality I seem to be in. Am I expecting to much from her to be responsive? Its like such a challenge to get her to shift to that mode. I feel I have been much more then reasonable and while I love her, another part of me just feels like I miss my wife, where did she go? Will this come back, and will she pass through this phase. I have suggested a doctor several times in the past but she is more into holistic means, such as healthy food ..so she is not into traditional medicine...

At night she watches lots of TV with my daughter who is 8, then typically goes to bed afterwards...

I must say its such a challenge...last time we spoke about this situation with sex, intimacy and our relationship..she said 
that I have it like she is the only one that I can have sex with and said something crazy to me such as she is not going to 
do something if she does not feel like it .. Its kind of strange because I know these weird things she says - could be knee
jerk reactions, things she says to avoid taking responsibility or accountability in our relationship ( in my opinion if someone 
is not feeling well or is not having energy, they will shift into survival mode of fight or flight, avoid or deflect things. I keep 
focusing on positive and I have been working a lot on my career and projects, but I just WISH i had an answer that seemed 
aligned.

One of the challenges is so many people give you advice, however some of it is super manipulative or controlling. When I look 
at drawing attention to positive or negative . I feel if you bring up negative issues it just focuses more energy on the negative.

I just do not know what to do, when I can purely see how irritable and tired she gets I know there must be something going 
on with her energy / health... and the last thing I want to do is to make her want to be with me.

I want her to want to spend time with me. Do I go out by myself and have a great time without her if I am just not into wasting 
time and watching TV. I mean I want to spend time with her, yet I feel like time is just wizzing by .. I am bored to be honest and 
would rather take a dance class or something where I move my body as I have always been more physical than wanting to sit on 
the sofa...

I am a physical guy, work out 3-4 times per week, in great shape and I am super motivated person !! 

Ladies: How do I get through to her ? I just am wondering if anyone has been through this before . Any husbands have a similar 
experience and turned this around ? Last time I spoke with my wife she asked me even if I wanted to date someone else .. These 
responses are strange based on the fact that her and I always talk about the future or buying homes, career moves and businesses 
that we work on together. If you were a FLY on the wall , as a witness you would think that we are so on the same page when it comes
to be on the same wave length , its just her energy is low and she seems to be shut off sexually and I do not know what to do ...

Its super hard when you love someone and things change. I get that I should not depend on my wife for my needs being met,
so WIVES/ LADIES: What do I do ? What is a solution for this ? Suggestions would be HELPFUL , I appreciate it ! 

Thanks very much !


----------



## Satya

I think your wife should read the books _Dance of Anger_ followed by the _Dance of Intimacy_.


----------



## Livvie

OP how old is your wife? Why do you say she is "going through menopause"? What are her menopause symptoms?

I think blaming her lack of interest in intimacy with you on menopause is doing you a great disservice.

You say this lack of interest in you has gone on for years...


----------



## wild jade

What makes me feel romantic and sexy is really good sex. What turns me off romantic and sexy is being too stressed and boring sex.


----------



## DTO

The important thing to note is that while your wife does not have to do anything at all with you, that goes both ways. You likewise don't have to do squat for her; I think this is the point that some spouses don't get.

I get that changing hormones reduce that urge to nurture that is postulated to be innate in most women, making them less accommodating and more self-centered. I also get that she likely feels she has sacrificed plenty for you and her family over the years, which is probably true. Here again, though, you guys are similarly situated; unless you were a slacker earlier in the marriage you gave just as much as she did and she cannot reasonably claim that she deserves more at this stage of life.

So, given the above and to avoid allegations of this being just about sex, frame it in terms of commitment and mutual respect. Every time she says "I don't have to do anything I don't want", your response should be "neither do I, but I happily do those things anyways out of love and commitment to you. Do you really want to get to a point where what strikes my fancy is the bottom line?"

If she comes up with the argument that she has sacrificed and provided so much over the years, you similarly remind her that sacrifice and hard work are par for the course in a family. She has not provided or given up more than you have, so she is not entitled to be prioritized over you now.

And so on, for whatever argument she throws out there. You'll likely see an air of entitlement/superiority come from her (you said she avoids accountability, which is not a good sign). At the end of the day, you have to keep driving home (with your words and actions) that her wants and needs do not matter more than yours. If she tries to subordinate your wants to hers or gets out-of-hand *****y because you aren't falling into line, simply disengage and go do something with your daughter. After a long enough period of you putting her on the back burner like she wants to do to you, it will start to bother her.

I've been there and done that (not menopause, but another, fixable issue affecting her sexuality). I followed my advice for a year (zero sex) before she tried to fix her behavior. It was better for a few weeks before she reverted to low-frequency, poor quality sex. Then she found out I expected lasting improvement and admitted she was not interested in doing the work that would take. So, there are no guarantees but I'm positive that had I not taken my stand she would not have even tried.



sunchild15 said:


> So what is the answer. While I do understand the hormonal changes impacting a woman. It seems my wife spends hours in the kitchen and keeping herself busy. I must say its a bit frustrating and I keep trying to look at what can be done differently. I am there for her with support, I hold her hand and we have conversations. What do I do with me wanting to have sex and her just wanting to sleep or watch TV? I wanted to get some advice from a women on this. Again, have attempted to get help from counselor and select a doctor.
> 
> She seems to be super irritable and tends to get bent out of shape about the smallest things. Like how I cut a piece of fruit or focusing on negative things and getting easily irritated.
> 
> Lately I have just been thinking a bunch about what reality I seem to be in. Am I expecting to much from her to be responsive? Its like such a challenge to get her to shift to that mode. I feel I have been much more then reasonable and while I love her, another part of me just feels like I miss my wife, where did she go? Will this come back, and will she pass through this phase. I have suggested a doctor several times in the past but she is more into holistic means, such as healthy food ..so she is not into traditional medicine...
> 
> At night she watches lots of TV with my daughter who is 8, then typically goes to bed afterwards...
> 
> I must say its such a challenge...last time we spoke about this situation with sex, intimacy and our relationship..she said
> that I have it like she is the only one that I can have sex with and said something crazy to me such as she is not going to
> do something if she does not feel like it .. Its kind of strange because I know these weird things she says - could be knee
> jerk reactions, things she says to avoid taking responsibility or accountability in our relationship ( in my opinion if someone
> is not feeling well or is not having energy, they will shift into survival mode of fight or flight, avoid or deflect things. I keep
> focusing on positive and I have been working a lot on my career and projects, but I just WISH i had an answer that seemed
> aligned.
> 
> One of the challenges is so many people give you advice, however some of it is super manipulative or controlling. When I look
> at drawing attention to positive or negative . I feel if you bring up negative issues it just focuses more energy on the negative.
> 
> I just do not know what to do, when I can purely see how irritable and tired she gets I know there must be something going
> on with her energy / health... and the last thing I want to do is to make her want to be with me.
> 
> I want her to want to spend time with me. Do I go out by myself and have a great time without her if I am just not into wasting
> time and watching TV. I mean I want to spend time with her, yet I feel like time is just wizzing by .. I am bored to be honest and
> would rather take a dance class or something where I move my body as I have always been more physical than wanting to sit on
> the sofa...
> 
> I am a physical guy, work out 3-4 times per week, in great shape and I am super motivated person !!
> 
> Ladies: How do I get through to her ? I just am wondering if anyone has been through this before . Any husbands have a similar
> experience and turned this around ? Last time I spoke with my wife she asked me even if I wanted to date someone else .. These
> responses are strange based on the fact that her and I always talk about the future or buying homes, career moves and businesses
> that we work on together. If you were a FLY on the wall , as a witness you would think that we are so on the same page when it comes
> to be on the same wave length , its just her energy is low and she seems to be shut off sexually and I do not know what to do ...
> 
> Its super hard when you love someone and things change. I get that I should not depend on my wife for my needs being met,
> so WIVES/ LADIES: What do I do ? What is a solution for this ? Suggestions would be HELPFUL , I appreciate it !
> 
> Thanks very much !


----------



## sunchild15

I just have a feeling that my wife has low energy. She is always yawning. She just turned 50. I think she thinks about things and likes to cause herself mental worry. It seems lately she jumps from thing to thing to keep her busy. for some reason she feels she has things to worry about. In the past I have tried to remove things from her plate so that she can relax. I have even suggested that she take a day off for herself.. She seems to always find something to work on. She may have a period every few months and she said she is going through changes. She works out with her trainer ( female ) on friday and then will complain that her workout was hard and that she is tired from it in which she will be tired for the next few days. At night she just tends to sit on the couch watching TV... I guess that is what some people do... 

How do you try and help someone want to figure this out when they seem like everything is such a big deal ? I give these suggestions because I care, yet lately I am getting the signs that she may be caught in this rut...I just do not know how to snap her out of this...I do not know because lately I have figured that you can not make anyone do anything ...


----------



## sunchild15

DTO: Responses below: 

The important thing to note is that while your wife does not have to do anything at all with you, that goes both ways. You likewise don't have to do squat for her; I think this is the point that some spouses don't get.

RESPONSE: Well, for our wedding anniversary , I decided to do nothing - I had this insight that I am a gift, why do I always run in circles and try and please her. What was shocking is we had sex on our anniversary. First time in quite a while.. That was at beginning of November. I guess my question is what do I do for her? Lately I have been just focused on doing things for me and my career, they do bring in the money for the household - yet its more focused on things for me... Lately too, she is like - you seem to be busy with doing lots of things: what are you doing ? Perhaps she is curious because instead of sitting on the sofa with me and my daughter I am working on career focused things... Because I am bored of just being a bump on the log and that is NEVER who I have been. 

I get that changing hormones reduce that urge to nurture that is postulated to be innate in most women, making them less accommodating and more self-centered. I also get that she likely feels she has sacrificed plenty for you and her family over the years, which is probably true. Here again, though, you guys are similarly situated; unless you were a slacker earlier in the marriage you gave just as much as she did and she cannot reasonably claim that she deserves more at this stage of life.

RESPONSE: I was NEVER a slacker, I have always owned companies or generated a majority of the income. I also have always worked much more with opportunities and I am the idea man and the doer. Usually when I have an idea, it is me that executes that idea or directs it .I generate the customers and I am far from a slacker ... 

So, given the above and to avoid allegations of this being just about sex, frame it in terms of commitment and mutual respect. Every time she says "I don't have to do anything I don't want", your response should be "neither do I, but I happily do those things anyways out of love and commitment to you. Do you really want to get to a point where what strikes my fancy is the bottom line?"

RESPONSE: That is a great point. I have brought this up in the past. It seems when we have a issue that I want to talk about, She will say what do you want to talk about , then she gives her opinions which typically refers to PAST events around things being weird or some way to distract her from having any accountability in the mix of the romance of the relationship. She will start on this " I just do not have any more energy left to give: I feel exhausted from what I do and I just do not have the energy to put work since I state that it takes two of us to create something. It also will come to her stating that : Why does she have to put in effort / Almost as if its totally up to me to plan and create the ideas around the dates. The last time I suggested we have a date, she will start bringing up the past - then I stated that perhaps she needs a day off to recharge for the date because my idea of a date is not us getting together to talk about life and issues...What is crazy is we work from home. We have from 8 AM to 3 PM monday through Friday where we are alone at home, being busy working on some business, her focus is 50/% business and the other 50% tends to go into her cooking and taking pictures of plant based organic food that she is making. That is great and I appreciate it . I mean WHO really wants to have to CONVINCE their partner to invest a few minutes into the relationship, intimacy or the relationship. I mean married couples talk about these things right, or do they just fall to be a victim to what life throws you every day. She constantly will say, Wow the day went by so fast, and could i take more initiative and set a date and set some boundaries - I have tried - yet how do you set a date when your partner is yawning all of the time, seems not in the realm of date time ? 


If she comes up with the argument that she has sacrificed and provided so much over the years, you similarly remind her that sacrifice and hard work are par for the course in a family. She has not provided or given up more than you have, so she is not entitled to be prioritized over you now.

RESPONSE: I do not now how else to FRAME this, I have done this. She likes to have these shocking responses to me such as: I just do not feel I have any more energy to give ... Or why do I count on her to make me happy.. I have to take care of myself and be happy on my own and then perhaps she would be more excited to spend time with me ( these are just excuses ) In the past she has said crazy things, Like .. Do you want to date other people if I can not fulfill your needs ? Her responses have been better of the last year because we have been doing some energy work since Sep...but before that her responses were even... Maybe she can not make me happy - perhaps I should find someone that can...She ahs said she just does not feel like having sex with anyone - her libido is not there, she has no idea what is going on .. etc ... 

And so on, for whatever argument she throws out there. You'll likely see an air of entitlement/superiority come from her (you said she avoids accountability, which is not a good sign). At the end of the day, you have to keep driving home (with your words and actions) that her wants and needs do not matter more than yours. If she tries to subordinate your wants to hers or gets out-of-hand *****y because you aren't falling into line, simply disengage and go do something with your daughter. After a long enough period of you putting her on the back burner like she wants to do to you, it will start to bother her.

RESPONSE: Perhaps I need to write her a letter. There is things when we talk face to face, it seems she always wants to redirect anything back to me. When we get in argument and I stand my ground she will say she wants to work on the relationship, then I go to schedule a appt with counselor and she then backs out stating that perhaps I should work on these things on my own.. Because they are my issues ...AGAIN, if you were to spend time around us, you would think ALL is Great, you would see her being moody and irritable at times, yet she seems to just want to maintain her life, eat good and sleep and work.. Its just if you were a fly in our bedroom it would go something like this: Your arm is so heavy, can you give me some space .. she moves over , or you may see covers over her head as she is exhausted she will say , Wow the day went by so fast ... 

I've been there and done that (not menopause, but another, fixable issue affecting her sexuality). I followed my advice for a year (zero sex) before she tried to fix her behavior. It was better for a few weeks before she reverted to low-frequency, poor quality sex. Then she found out I expected lasting improvement and admitted she was not interested in doing the work that would take. So, there are no guarantees but I'm positive that had I not taken my stand she would not have even tried.


RESPONSE: 

So is it fixed after you taking your stand ? What did you do when she was not interested in DOING the work ? I must say that I do not anyone wants intimacy and sex from a partner that is not interested. I am not interested in just SEX..At times my wife will extreme response me by saying: "All you care about is sex" or "You can only feel connected through SEX" this tends to push my buttons because that is NOT the case, and it almost makes me feel bad that I even think about wanting sex from her.... I actually just want her to be interested in having a passionate relationship for herself and me and us together.... It definitely is frustrating ! I do want a passionate relationship.. and lately I do not know what else to do because I think she has some things impacting her energtically, health - perhaps its depression of some sort .. I also feel the pressure that I am the one who has to solve all the problems in order for me to get my needs met ... 

I am sure I can go run 5-10 miles per day and lift weights like i did following the MMSL and raising my frame. Honestly I feel busy being busy and avoiding this issue by being busy ...


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## Livvie

After reading your responses, it sounds like your wife isn't really interested in having a loving, intimate, husband/wife relationship with you.

If she were... she would be conducting her life differently. People make a priority what they want in life.

This may just be her, and nothing is going to change it.

You do not need to stay in a relationship such as this.


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## farsidejunky

Don't write any letters.

Don't initiate another "talk".

You have done too much talking already.

Speak with your actions. Prioritize what you want in life and your child. Nothing else. Place any of the things she wants somewhere near the bottom of your priority list. It is clear it bothers her when you do so, and that is good.

When she asks what you are doing, tell her you are living the life you want to live.

When she indicates this bothers her:

"Wife, what is it you want from me that I am not doing?"

Her: "x, y, and z"

You: "You made it clear that you do not want a relationship that includes prioritizing me, so I accept that and have adjusted accordingly."

Her: "But what about x, y, and z?"

You: "That is a discussion for couples who are committed to prioritizing each other. Since it is clear you do not want that type of relationship, there is no point in discussing it. Let me know if you want that to change."

Then smile and go do something you want to do.

Use the last quoted line anytime she gets angry or pushes you.

Bottom line: there will be no effort from you until she is willing to do the same.


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## Lila

@sunchild15, what is keeping you married to your wife? And is the lack of intimacy the proverbial hill you wish to die on? 

The reason I ask is that you cannot change your wife, she has to want to do it herself. You can stop meeting her needs in an attempt to get her to "wake up", but she may just throw her hands up and want to call it quits. Make sure you are ready to lose the marriage before you attempt anything that has the potential to piss her off.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## cc48kel

Not sure you can do anything.... maybe.. I'm 49 and feel low energy too-- the ho-hum of daily things, making sure house and kids are taken care of.. It is mentally draining as I try and fit time in for me.. But I think it's because I don't have a loving, kind relationship that you have. Have you mentioned counseling? This way the both of you can talk about this. If my spouse asked me to get my hormones checked, not sure I would do it. Have you tried whisking her to a weekend getaway? How about you go away with your 'guy' friends or even staying busy-- maybe she needs to really miss you.


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## Livvie

cc48kel said:


> Not sure you can do anything.... maybe.. I'm 49 and feel low energy too-- the ho-hum of daily things, making sure house and kids are taken care of.. It is mentally draining as I try and fit time in for me.. But I think it's because I don't have a loving, kind relationship that you have. Have you mentioned counseling? This way the both of you can talk about this. If my spouse asked me to get my hormones checked, not sure I would do it. Have you tried whisking her to a weekend getaway? How about you go away with your 'guy' friends or even staying busy-- maybe she needs to really miss you.


A "weekend getaway" isn't going to cure this wife's don't give a **** attitude about her husband.


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## sunchild15

I have mentioned counseling... after a fight or disagreement she says she will go, then it comes down to the wire and its, How can we afford to pay that money now, why do I have to go? It seems like you are the one who has the issues.. I have also spoken with her about the doctor before and she does not see her patterns of being tired.. Like today, she slept until about 10:30, because she was up late watching a movie with daughter..I went and worked out, got daughter ready, took daughter to party, then came home and she made some food, then took daughter to another class until 6 pm came home, she made dinner.. then now at 7 pm she is watching Tv with daughter... she seems irritable and tired, yet I am the one doing stuff all day...

As far as romantic weekend... or dates, I have pulled back on that because before we were going to 4-5 star restaurants, getting baby sitter, and going out every week but that cost us about $200 plus per week.. After that she would come home and go to sleep because she was tired, perhaps at this point I am also resigned...

I have had so many conversations with her, her response is why dont you do something instead of talking about it .. I have planned time away as a family.. Perhaps I seem quite resigned around planning something, I wish I could hit reset in my mind around things... Its definitely hard because I am very aware of her energy, if she is tired, irritated or edgy, it is kind of hard to initiate with her, It feels not aligned .. I am just tired of having to always be the one who has to generate it...

Lately I have been doing some soul searching around what I am doing with my time, how I am being influenced by people around me. I am 47, I feel in great shape and love moving, dancing and doing things.. I just feel bored sitting on a sofa watching TV every night of the week... Its kind of boring ..for every night ....

There must be some way to shift this, I think this starts with me focused on what makes me feel best and doing things that I enjoy, we have gone places to premieres, dinner, events and things but again, its that spark of libido that is missing, she will have a great time and then get home and its time to be in the bathroom for 30 minutes, spend hours in the kitchen and then go to sleep.

Lately I feel that the energy of her Mom who passed 4-5 years ago has crept into her behavior as far as sleep and bed. Her Mom used to sleep and rest all of the time on her own , it seemed like depression - I am seeing her taking on the energy and behavior of her passed 70 year old Mom...I almost feel like discussing this with her - because trying to communicate with my concerning sensitive demeanor about going to a doctor has not been impactful.. I do not want to piss her off, but I feel as if she has taken on her Mom's behavior.. I spoke with an energy worker / healer who suggested that perhaps her Mother who passed away has possessed part of her portal of energy ... 

I wish more than anything - she could see the pattern she is in .. Again its not my job to change her, convince her or make her do anything she does not want to do ...


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## msrv23

She has low energy, is irritated all the time and is tired. This sounds like an issue that needs to be addressed. She might be in denial or all this affecting her that she can’t bother to all the trouble to fix it.

Husbands and wives should support each other through difficult phases but at the same time they also have needs that shouldn’t go too long ignored. We all can ask the other to put aside their own needs temporarily but it’s unfair to do so in the long run. At least the spouse with the problem should try to fix their issue for themselves and their spouses too.

You guys have 200$ to spend each weekend so can’t part of it be spent to counseling? Tell her you need this and it’s important for you both.
Ultimatums sucks but after compassion and understanding towards her not working for so long, you might want to do so by saying that you can’t live like this any longer.


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## MJJEAN

msrv23 said:


> She has low energy, is irritated all the time and is tired. This sounds like an issue that needs to be addressed.


Hmm...
@sunchild15, has your wife had her thyroid checked? Not the standard panel, but the more in depth panel checking TSH, T3 and T4 levels? No energy, tired, irritated or overly emotional in other ways are symptoms of a lot of possible problems, including hormone imbalance. The thyroid is a common problem for women and is easily treated. If that's not the problem, perhaps she needs to see an endocrinologist to have a full workup.


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## sunchild15

I do not think that she has had it checked properly.. I have suggested this through a nutritionalist since she seems to be against doctor and medications. This is kind of challenging, today she was helping daughter with homework and daughter got emotional, instead of her being patient with her and trying to understand she just said : What is wrong with you - I can not work with you if you act like this, she then goes to state that is as if she is taking a hammer and smashing it into her head...to my daughter. I interrupted and stated that the visual and language she used is not appropriate for this situation. She then asked me in front of daughter why I am interrupting the conversation which I stated that when weird things happen that it impacts me as well.. I then stated that she should not try to bully me... that her language is not a good visual, then her statement to me is I can not come and go as I please into a conversation.. So then she said she can not work like this and goes into the other room. While I appreciate the efforts in her working with daughter _ how can you even make a statement that working with me is like taking a hammer and smashing myself in the skull ? Am I right about this.. Is this logical , am I out of line with what is proper behavior... This is the kind of crazy thing where she just goes over and over the fact that my daughter is getting upset which I feel just causes more drama then coming up with a solution and a favorable outcome for communication with our daughter ....


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## sunchild15

I just do not know what to do in order to help her. I look at this fight that just happened and I think hmm, is our daughter hungry. she has had toast and almond butter in the last 5 hours. Perhaps she is hungry and that is why she is getting emotional ... 

With the doctor / nutritionalist. Perhaps I have to be the responsible on all of this... I feel lately as if I have to have the whole family go to the nutritionalist. If I leave it up to her, its _ why do we have to pay this much ? We are all fine, we do not have the money .. Excuse after Excuse...and I am now feeling like I can not count on anyone else to do what they are supposed to ...I am feeling lots of pressure actually around everything.


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## sunchild15

Women ideal husband experience


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## sunchild15

So I would love to hear from wives on what has been experiences with your husband over time

For example I have been with wife for almost 20 years...as time goes on..imagine that passion becomes less....what have you found works best form of getting you warmed up to be romantic...how do u keep things alive....with children and responsibilities....

I find wife is hard to get her brain in the direction of romance....any advice from wives who have been married for some time ..

Have any of u during the course of years ever suggested your wife fool around or have sex with other women...? 

What are some creative ways your husband has warmed u up....

I would love to hear any creative ideas ... perhaps I can try on my wife ...

This last time I was turned on and started touching myself my wife joined in...perhaps I need to create a build of foreplay more...like move forward little and move back ...not just always go for it ...maybe I should try teasing her more .... I would love to hear any ideas...

Lately I get great ideas ...then..I stop myself from trying anything new because I feel she won't be into it....I really want to liven..it up...


Please share ideas


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## frusdil

sunchild15 said:


> What do I do ? Last conversation we had months back was something that went in the direction, that I have it because we are married that she is the only person that I can have sex with , that she is not responsible to fulfill my needs if she does not feel like this.


I'm sorry but your wife's response to that is absolute BS! She IS responsible for meeting your needs (and vice versa). Of course you shouldn't force her to have sex, but sometimes, even when she doesn't feel like it, she needs to get over that and just do it.

It's a piss poor excuse to blame menopause too - women all over the world go through menopause every day, not all of them pull this crap. My bestie blamed menopause for the appalling way she treated her husband. "Hormones make me do it, I can't help it". Bull Dust! I told her so, in front of her husband. She got the shock the shock of her life.

That said, are you sure that you are meeting her needs? I know you do a lot for her, but is that what you think she needs or what she's told you she needs? Big difference - just something to think about.



Diana7 said:


> The thing is with sex that even if we don't 'feel' like it , we can still make that decision to have sex because we love our spouse. We do it for them. We enjoy it because they are enjoying it, and guess what, we then even enjoy it ourselves. So having low libido shouldn't make any difference.


^^This


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## David51

I am fairly new to Tap but I see 5his on here often and I have a question for the women here and I am not trying to be a smart azz. When a wife withholds sex and flat refuses to do anything to improve her desire for it. In my mind she is condemning her husband to a life of celibacy. If the sex is trivial in their marriage then why object if he satisfies his need with another woman. Ya ya I know you will call it cheating ......but is it? Think about this. I come home starving, the cupboards are bare I ask wife out to dinner and she says “ Honey, I am not hungry and I have a headache”. Do you think it wrong for me to run down to McDonald’s and get a BigMack? Explain the difference both are basic needs. Without food I am going to die and a marriage without sex is not a marriage and it too will die and that is a fact.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sandcastle

frusdil said:


> I'm sorry but your wife's response to that is absolute BS! She IS responsible for meeting your needs (and vice versa). Of course you shouldn't force her to have sex, but sometimes, even when she doesn't feel like it, she needs to get over that and just do it.
> 
> It's a piss poor excuse to blame menopause too - women all over the world go through menopause every day, not all of them pull this crap. My bestie blamed menopause for the appalling way she treated her husband. "Hormones make me do it, I can't help it". Bull Dust! I told her so, in front of her husband.


"BULL DUST"! 
Is this woman still your friend or does she need a meddling and empathy challenged "friend" in her life to set her marriage straight and give her and her husband the edict on menopause and how it SHOULD NOTaffect every woman on the planet according to who ? YOU ?

Maybe you should discuss that with the makers of Premarin? Bull Dust!

Bio-identicals BULL DUST!

Cancers that are prevelant in menopausal women. BULL DUST!

Hormones? What do they exist? BULL DUST!

Just quit your *****ing and forget about all those silly medical studies. It's ALL BULL DUST! Just have sex with your husband!

Maybe OP wife just flat out feels like ****.

Maybe she has Hodgkins.
Non- Hodgkins.
Thyroid cancer?
Lupus?
Colon cancer?
Severe depression ? Due to hormonal imbalance? Shocking !

If she does not want to get a clean bill of health -
Then leave.

If she gets a clean bill of health but her hormones are totally out of whack including her testestorone ( yes- women have that hormone too)and refuses to treat- then leave.


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## Betrayedone

sandcastle said:


> "BULL DUST"!
> Is this woman still your friend or does she need a meddling and empathy challenged "friend" in her life to set her marriage straight and give her and her husband the edict on menopause and how it SHOULD NOTaffect every woman on the planet according to who ? YOU ?
> 
> Maybe you should discuss that with the makers of Premarin? Bull Dust!
> 
> Bio-identicals BULL DUST!
> 
> Cancers that are prevelant in menopausal women. BULL DUST!
> 
> Hormones? What do they exist? BULL DUST!
> 
> Just quit your *****ing and forget about all those silly medical studies. It's ALL BULL DUST! Just have sex with your husband!
> 
> Maybe OP wife just flat out feels like ****.
> 
> Maybe she has Hodgkins.
> Non- Hodgkins.
> Thyroid cancer?
> Lupus?
> Colon cancer?
> Severe depression ? Due to hormonal imbalance? Shocking !
> 
> If she does not want to get a clean bill of health -
> Then leave.
> 
> If she gets a clean bill of health but her hormones are totally out of whack including her testestorone ( yes- women have that hormone too)and refuses to treat- then leave.


sounds like a bunch of BS excuses to me.........It could be aliens.........


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## Livvie

David51 said:


> I am fairly new to Tap but I see 5his on here often and I have a question for the women here and I am not trying to be a smart azz. When a wife withholds sex and flat refuses to do anything to improve her desire for it. In my mind she is condemning her husband to a life of celibacy. If the sex is trivial in their marriage then why object if he satisfies his need with another woman. Ya ya I know you will call it cheating ......but is it? Think about this. I come home starving, the cupboards are bare I ask wife out to dinner and she says ? Honey, I am not hungry and I have a headache?. Do you think it wrong for me to run down to McDonald?s and get a BigMack? Explain the difference both are basic needs. Without food I am going to die and a marriage without sex is not a marriage and it too will die and that is a fact.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'll explain. People expect a marriage to be monogamous. It's even in most marriage vows. That's why a woman who isn't providing sex in the marital relationship still expects her husband to be faithful. No one expects you to be monogamous to your kitchen (your home kitchen as your only source of food).

If your spouse isn't interested in having a healthy, intimate and ongoing sex life with you (but expects that you'll not be having sex with others, because you are indeed married) then it's on YOU to get yourself out of your sexless marriage. If it doesn't work for you, get out.

You know how the motto at Surviving Infidelity is get yourself out of infidelity? If your marriage is so lacking that your spouse has no desire for you and no desire to meet basic sexual needs such that you are considering having sex outside the marriage, maybe it's time to get yourself out of an unfulfilling marriage!!


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## Diana7

David51 said:


> I am fairly new to Tap but I see 5his on here often and I have a question for the women here and I am not trying to be a smart azz. When a wife withholds sex and flat refuses to do anything to improve her desire for it. In my mind she is condemning her husband to a life of celibacy. If the sex is trivial in their marriage then why object if he satisfies his need with another woman. Ya ya I know you will call it cheating ......but is it? Think about this. I come home starving, the cupboards are bare I ask wife out to dinner and she says “ Honey, I am not hungry and I have a headache”. Do you think it wrong for me to run down to McDonald’s and get a BigMack? Explain the difference both are basic needs. Without food I am going to die and a marriage without sex is not a marriage and it too will die and that is a fact.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


While I see your point, the fact is that we dont die without sex. I think this wife is VERY wrong to deny her husband sex, but if he did cheat its still also wrong. I would never cheat even if my husband couldn't or wouldn't have sex again, and I certainly wouldn't divorce over it, because 2 wrongs don't make a right.


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## sunchild15

I am not planning on cheating in any way...I am just wondering if she says, do you want to do date other people ? My response has always been I want you! Yet, she feels she does not have any more energy to give.. I love my wife and I do not think sex is everything however I do feel if we were having sex that the relationship would be better. I do have some sense that my wife feels hopeless perhaps depressed around the world. The fact that everyone is chasing their tail. We live in a big city where even if you make 150-200k per year there is no real pull ahead with a family.

She also feels bad because she does not feel she is doing much aside from being tired. I am bringing in checks and income from business and other outside work that I do that she has no part of. She help me with the one business - but lately everything seems exhausting and lots of work for her which I feel is somehow impacted by health.

This is why lately I feel pressure because I feel I am steering the boat, however lately after working for the last 30+ years, I am feeling like a bit burned out as well.. Yet, I am feeling that I have to solve all the problems of life for me and her.. She asks me what we should do and lately she asks what is our plan ... Our plan to not chase our tail like everyone else in life, then when you get somewhere, you have to chase the next thing to survive... So I get where she is, I am there for her, lately I feel like I have to generate momentum in life and business and also feel like I am a machine just going and going and going ...

I have expressed that I need to also have fun besides working all of the time. 

I get where the world is, I listened to her... I get where she is coming from and hear her out and get how she is feeling. I am not trying to change how she feels and I do not blow off how she feels. The biggest question is the solution... Lately she seems to want to simplify, she is talking about if we buy land, grow our own food, simplify... Yet I also know that where you go or move to - you bring yourself with you.. I am not sure if changing location will change the situation ...it may reduce stress ...

We live a great lifestyle, eat the best food and have lots going for us... I know I am not 20 years old any more, but I feel I have the energy and vigor of a 20 year old. I must say it was fun when I was younger, us having sex in a car, having oral sex, being passionate...It was fun being wanted and enjoying our bodies ... 

Its kind of depressing for me, I feel like her energy is that of a 70 year old and she seems to be done with sex... I do not want to make her do anything against what she wants to .. I mean who wants to be intimate and have sex with someone who does not want to share the same experience...Perhaps I have to MAN UP - Earn more and just lead the SHIP and create rules, such as everyone is going to the nutritionalist because I said so...I do feel lots of pressure because it seems that I have to create these resources and its on me when your partner does not have enough energy.

Every idea we have, it comes down to me being the doer or director of the program. Or whats my idea, whats my plan .. Everyone is looking to me for answers and solutions with life, financing , future... Its just when I know that a better relationship and intimacy and more connection would fuel me more in this pursuit, there does not seem to be enough energy there .... What is my answer... I have to push and push even when I do not feel like it - because its the right thing to do ... for my family .... yet my response from her is - she is tired, she does not feel like it and she feels stressed, she looks at the world too much and looks at everything as ****ED, she gets mad at how the world works and how it works against people having a peaceful life, yet the anger and sadness is not on any level near libido, love and connection - it goes towards being depressed and hopeless....

So I love my wife and my family, the biggest question is how to I get my own needs met ? How can I get creative to fuel what makes me happy ...I can not just turn off all my sexual energy and be celibate .. that has not seemed to work, I have even laid off initiating for some time and that does not create any change as well...


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## Prodigal

You have mentioned several times that your wife suggests you "date" other people when you try to discuss your sex life. As a woman, I can tell you that this sounds like her way of telling you she simply is not interested in having sex with you. It's a disrespectful response, to say the least. I never said anything along these lines to my husband, but if I did (for me at least), it would mean: "Get off my back, get outta my face, and leave me the hell alone."

Quit trying to find solutions to things. To me, your quest for solutions is a way to change the sexless marriage situation and, in effect, to change her. Sorry, but she doesn't want to have sex with you. Whether she's tired, too busy, going through menopause, WHATEVER ... she isn't interested in sex; specifically, sex with you.

Sorry. It sounds like you are over-thinking this. But after TWO YEARS of no sex, I think you have your answer. She isn't interested in changing, she is satisfied with the status quo.


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## EleGirl

sunchild15 said:


> I do not think that she has had it checked properly.. I have suggested this through a nutritionalist since she seems to be against doctor and medications. This is kind of challenging, today she was helping daughter with homework and daughter got emotional, instead of her being patient with her and trying to understand she just said : What is wrong with you - I can not work with you if you act like this, she then goes to state that is as if she is taking a hammer and smashing it into her head...to my daughter. I interrupted and stated that the visual and language she used is not appropriate for this situation. She then asked me in front of daughter why I am interrupting the conversation which I stated that when weird things happen that it impacts me as well.. I then stated that she should not try to bully me... that her language is not a good visual, then her statement to me is I can not come and go as I please into a conversation.. So then she said she can not work like this and goes into the other room. While I appreciate the efforts in her working with daughter _ how can you even make a statement that working with me is like taking a hammer and smashing myself in the skull ? Am I right about this.. Is this logical , am I out of line with what is proper behavior... This is the kind of crazy thing where she just goes over and over the fact that my daughter is getting upset which I feel just causes more drama then coming up with a solution and a favorable outcome for communication with our daughter ....


My take is that your wife was telling your daughter that she felt that your daughter's behavior was inappropriate... like your daughter was verbally beating your wife up... the analogy of hitting your wife with a hammer would describe this sort of situation.

I think that you were wrong on reprimand your wife in front of your daughter. It undermines your wife's parenting. Instead, you could have discussed this in private with your wife later. But instead you treated your wife like a child and gave your daughter permission to abused her mother. 

This sort of thing might be the root of the problem. Generally, when a person withdraws sexually from the marriage it's because they are upset with their spouse. It's a passive aggressive way to punish their spouse for real or imagined wrongs.

How old is your child?


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## sunchild15

my child is 8 years old. I feel she was irrational. To project that fact that working with her is like taking a hammer and smashing it in her skull is a bit extreme, she does not even think , wait my daughter may be hungry . she has a piece of toast with almond butter at 8 am and its almost 1 pm ... But how is the projecting positive example to a child on how to act... ?? I disagree, because she is the one who let me have it prior to what I said in front of our daughter telling me to but out of the conversation ...in front of daughter ..


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## Prodigal

I decided to read this thread again before responding. All these suggestions you have made to your wife, from counseling to seeing a nutritionist, etc. come across as you being overbearing. At least that is what I'm hearing from my spot in cyberspace. Just like your wife told you to butt out of the situation with your daughter, she is also telling you to quit "suggesting" and just leave her alone about the sex issue. 

I've known people who want to suggest and help. While they may have the best of intentions, the recipients frequently feel it's overbearing. If your wife wants to pump up her libido, she'll do it. After all, it is HER libido, not yours. 

And, as I stated previously, for your wife to suggest you go out and bang someone else sounds like she wants you to leave her alone. Frankly, it sounds like she doesn't want you, or anyone else, analyzing her psyche, her motives, or her lack of libido.


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## sunchild15

Its confusing because that is what it sounds like around sex. When it comes to everything else it looks different. She will say do you want to come with me to go exercise and take a walk. Do you want to go to the farmers market. I found some property or us..to look at buying - here is my idea for us... Oh what do you think we should do as far as building this company up together. We should all work together and build a brand... Do you want to watch something with me on the sofa.. When will you be home from work ?? I am waiting up for you.. Do you want something to eat ? She shares everything with me and wants me to be a part of everything .. Its just the sex does not seem to be connected or a priority. Again I am on here sharing what I want to solve, We all eat together, we are all loving, we all go out as a family .. Perhaps I am being overbearing ...See its really confusing when she says hey , do you want to take a walk with me and go get some coffee and we hold hands and she tells me about her worries and concerns... Or when she asks if I want to go get lunch with her - or she shares about the world.... It all seems aligned... and hey maybe I should not be so focused on her, she is talking about our future and all the things we should do .. etc ...Maybe if I am turned on - I should pleasure myself and be more sexual around the house ...All I can say is I am confused because when I look at it all, it seems she wants me around and next to her all of the time except for the sex... Listen I am just coming from LOVE, you would think if you just let things breathe, you were happy, a motivated amazing husband and Dad and supportive in many ways that you would not even have to ask for anything .... who wants to ask for sex or to have your love partner do things to you.. why because they forgot about all of that , or maybe the mental stress has disabled any desire for sex or wanting to have it .. Period ...

I have not heard from HARDLY any wives.. in a way I feel women have it so much easier then men. If we want something it becomes something that takes effort, where MEN are just expected to do it all, not complain and be the leader. We do all of these things out of responsibility... whether we feel like it or not , I literally bust my ASS and work like a horse... Yet I have to try and convince my wife why its important to work on things TOGETHER, I do not blame her, I come to her with LOVE and CONCERN...Honestly I know I do not need to have sex to feel worthy or valued, I miss it ... Now not only am I confused, I am asking myself on so many levels what else I can do...

I feel that before people get married they should have a plan / talk and really talk about what a TEAM is.. I have been on many teams and I am a team player... Listen last time we had sex on November 1st , it was great... because it had been so long... I kissed my wife she played with me for a while, I wanted her to get super excited so I let the energy build, then I kissed all over her body, savoring evert part of her body, enjoying her.. I went down on her and took my time savoring how delicious she was ... until she was super wet and wanted me in her.. I then grasped her and made love to her firmly, breathing and really enjoying her , it was so much fun.. I would sincerely like to do this more with her, before that it was almost 1.5 years before that we had sex... 

I remember when I was 40 lbs heavier, and no where in as good as shape as I am now. She used to go down on me when I was in the car, not because I asked her or wanted it , because she wanted to.. I even remember when her parents came over to our place and while they were in the apartment we had sex in garage over the shifter, again that was her that did that ... in the backseat of a car in a public place... I remember while in Europe us having amazing sex and she used to always give me oral sex.. I love giving her oral sex as well, we used to even do 69's, other positions, from behind, sideways, her on top, and me on top - where she would squeeze me tightly...

It was SUPER passionate and juicy. I am a humble guy, I work out 5 times a week in fact last month I ran a half marathon, I am super healthy - I eat all organic healthy diet .. I am in the best shape of my life... I am just baffled and perhaps maybe my libido is higher... Listen whatever my wife wants I would do it for her ... I have asked, I have tried to schedule time etc ...Whats crazy is we do not even use a condom now because of the whole menopause thing, that to me seems even more exciting to me ! One less thing to worry about now.... HMM... 

I do ENJOY sex very much .. when you have it far and few between - you do tend to think of it more...

I just wanted to see if there are any WOMEN who can share with me, WHAT has worked best in the past with YOUR HUSBAND getting you warmed up, initiating with you .. Anything that turned you on and got your libido going.. I would love to hear positive ideas from women, unless the majority of people on here are unhappy men ... trying to get a womens perspective !


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## Rob_1

Not to be sounding condescending or putting you down, but you are not reacting like the typical man around the world(decisive about an issue like this).

You are coming across as a winning, nagging man that is not capable of making a decision on his own after all this time of no having sex. If your wife doesn't want sex and that's a deal breaker for you, then end the relationship period; otherwise, just accept it and stop nagging your wife. I did with my first wife, after about 3 months of no sex and there's nothing wrong, it is me crap I divorced her, best decision I ever made, and I was proven right. To this day (decades later) she's still sexless.

Decide what you want, if it is sex, then put your balls back and give her and ultimatum about what needs to be done in order for her to do what needs to be done to solve the conundrum in your relationship or otherwise is over and mean it. Otherwise you'll continue being just a nagging man being less and less in his wife's eyes.
.


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## Prodigal

I'm a woman. I was a wife; however, my husband died quite suddenly almost three years ago. I think I know a thing or two about marriage. My husband and I had, what I consider, a very passionate love affair. But we didn't talk things to death. 

Just quit with all the team-building crap. Heck, my husband came home from work sometimes and just took me in the kitchen. I liked that take-charge attitude. I'd be turned off by a man who has to think things to death. Keep it simple. Keep it straightforward. Don't ask her for a litany of reasons not to have sex. Tell her to quit making flimsy excuses. If this problem persists, I'd suggest you give her an ultimatum. Decide what your boundaries are and enforce them. I'd be turned off by a man who kept trying to intellectualize my lack of desire. So enforce a boundary or remain in a sexless marriage.

My husband had a very nice body. What got me REALLY hot was to watch him swinging a pick axe. He was pounding down railroad ties as a border for our backyard garden some years ago. Dang. Watching his muscles bulge, with that 32-inch waist in tight jeans and wearing workman's boots. Hell, yeah! 

Sorry, but that's all I can tell you as to what worked for me.


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## frusdil

sandcastle said:


> "BULL DUST"!
> Is this woman still your friend or does she need a meddling and empathy challenged "friend" in her life to set her marriage straight and give her and her husband the edict on menopause and how it SHOULD NOTaffect every woman on the planet according to who ? YOU ?
> 
> Maybe you should discuss that with the makers of Premarin? Bull Dust!
> 
> Bio-identicals BULL DUST!
> 
> Cancers that are prevelant in menopausal women. BULL DUST!
> 
> Hormones? What do they exist? BULL DUST!
> 
> Just quit your *****ing and forget about all those silly medical studies. It's ALL BULL DUST! Just have sex with your husband!
> 
> Maybe OP wife just flat out feels like ****.
> 
> Maybe she has Hodgkins.
> Non- Hodgkins.
> Thyroid cancer?
> Lupus?
> Colon cancer?
> Severe depression ? Due to hormonal imbalance? Shocking !
> 
> If she does not want to get a clean bill of health -
> Then leave.
> 
> If she gets a clean bill of health but her hormones are totally out of whack including her testestorone ( yes- women have that hormone too)and refuses to treat- then leave.


Oh boy, another one who doesn't read posts properly. I NEVER said menopause isn't an issue for some women, I NEVER said that hormones don't exist. What I said was that blaming appalling, ongoing behaviour on hormones is NOT OK. And it isn't. Hormones do not mean someone isn't responsible for their behaviour.

But, bless, read into it whatever you like. Your opinion of me or my post is of zero importance to me


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## sunchild15

But dont you feel that you thought about sex. I do agree with not over intellectualizing it .. Perhaps because we work together and around each other almost 24 x 7 that is the issue. Hmm, even when I went away though for 4-5 days or a week to 10 days, I did not see much difference. But I do feel that being around each other all of the time and doing lots for her can also kill that attraction. Its funny I was reading this book called mating in captivity, it spoke about how once we have a relationship now we want security , then it contradicts what turns on the attraction - the adventure and uncertainty ... 

I think every woman is unique. I also think once a woman switches into the Mother role, and responsibility of being a parent sometimes priorities get shifted.. I have never had sex after married in any other place but the bedroom, that sounds fun ! adventurous ...


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## sunchild15

Has anyone been in a similar situation where their wife had gone through some life things such as family passing away...menopause and had the intimacy and sex drop to once every 6 months and then have it recover to normal ...? Just wondering ...imagine there are wives that have gone through similar where u had no desire for sex and regained your groove....

This morning I was laying in bed fantasizing about past experiences where I was woken by oral sex, hot passionate experiences where I spent the day in bed....just wondering .. how does this come back....does it ? 

I remember times when I was in the Marines and college when girls would straight out come up to me and say I want to take you home for the night...I am a great dancer ...when I go dancing I would even get approached by amazing looking women because I am a great dancer that would say some wild things to me ....

It's such a confusing situation ...because everything seems so normal yet the discussion around what happened to the intimacy and sex ..changes my wife into a different space...it's like all is wonderful as long as we don't talk about that ....

I mean ..I work on myself..in amazing shape...and when we go out everyone interacts with me...

It's funny because we went to a party the other day..and I always even have other women want to talk with me and flirt as well...im just saying I am an awesome guy .. if anyone met me you would be like . Wow...you are having these issues .. 

Im just trying to figure out ..how to turn on the flow again...I went dancing a few months back with friend . I feel on top of the world and live dancing ...I still have women that approach me to dance and socialize...

Obviously when your in your 20s ..ll you worry about is working out ...lifting weights ..my clothes and my cars ...

It was funny I jacked up my work outs last year and initially my wife was kind of upset and didn't know where she stood because she said I was working out like a 20 year old...checking out my muscles all the time and she said it looked as if I wanted to started dating young women...she actually wrote me a letter saying show she didn't feel secure ...at the time I was following the MMSl book ..maybe it was working ...

Im still working out...im just wondering how to turn the flow on again...perhaps I should turn up my workouts like when I was 20 ...

I used to go dancing 5 nights a week. Weight training 1 to 2 times over day and cardio/sports practice for an hour a day ...i used to breakdance..and win dance contests ...though my 20s...when I think about it ..I focused on things that made me feel great and earthing else was secondary ...

Perhaps I have to get refocused...on what's best for me being Happy for a while...

I feel that when people get married there is all this expectations that your here to serve your wife and family and if you do that . They will surely think of u ...
Somewhere along the way ..I think some are doers and some are takers...not intentionally ....listen I have never been lazy and always a mover and shaker in life...im the guy who sees opportunities ..goes for them...

I think people just expect it of u...and sometimes you can expect someone to take care of you if you take care of them...

I think im learning a lot about life ...I also see people fall into ruts and patterns in life ...without even seeing it...I think it's time to get back on my AA game be the champion I am and shift things by me shedding many things that don't make me feel the best ..

When I did all sports and dancing I was fully alive ..on fire ...that should be a priority for me ..


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## Rob_1

Oh Lord OP, you just don't seen to get what people are telling you. Would you just stop this intellectualizing crap about everything, and just for only once take a decisive action about something and do it. No wonder why your wife doesn't want anything to do intimately with you. You sound like a mood killer.


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## sunchild15

No ..Im not .. appreciate your comment . Maybe i'm just burned out myself from having to do so much work at this...it's disheartening when you have been with someone for 20 years...you think I actually kill the mood 365 days out of the year...is that while I am supporting the family , creating business or working out ? Bunch of men on here have the all the answers ..so her is the question for you ? Hows your marriage and relationship


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## Rob_1

My relationship with my wife is and always been a loving intimate one. No Complains to this day. I keep telling myself what a lucky dog was I to get her.

I can only go by what you are posting here. I'm not there to see what's exactly going on with your sexual problem. If you read my first reply you'll see how as a man I reacted to my first wife for the sex problem. All I can tell you, again: is this no sex, after two years a deal breaker to You? If yes, stop wining and demand a resolution to the issue, if no resolution end the relationship period. Not a deal breaker? Stop complaining, accept it and carry on. Your wife most likely will not change nor sees any reason to change for. Gives her a reason and see if she cares for.


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## Prodigal

sunchild15 said:


> Maybe i'm just burned out myself from having to do so much work at this...


This, in a nutshell, is your problem. Obviously, your methods aren't working, since you are burned out and still not having the sex life you desire. I'd suggest you get into IC, since your wife doesn't sound like she wants to participate in MC. You need to get a firm grasp on boundaries and what is and is not acceptable to you in a marriage. If this lack of sex is a deal breaker, then you need to come to a decision. If you are willing to live this way, you need to accept you will not have sex. Your wife has, and is, making it abundantly clear sex is not a priority to her.


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## Steve1000

sunchild15 said:


> RESPONSE: Perhaps I need to write her a letter. There is things when we talk face to face, it seems she always wants to redirect anything back to me. When we get in argument and I stand my ground she will say she wants to work on the relationship, then I go to schedule a appt with counselor and she then backs out stating that perhaps I should work on these things on my own.. Because they are my issues .....


I've been catching up with this thread for the past 1/2 hour. The only suggestion that I want to make is to NOT write her a letter. This will make you seem more weak and "annoying" in his wife's eyes. The best thing you can do is to figure out if you are going to accept this and concentrate on the nice things about being married to your wife or if you are instead going to prepare to leave. You have an eight-year old at home so I would understand if you decided to stay for the next ten years.


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## sunchild15

Thanks for your advice.

This all makes sense however I must say it impacts your heart and life especially if they've been with somebody for 20 years. All this to me seems a priority of importance if its staring you in the face. Any relationship that is successful requires communication and clarity of what is important to each person...

After looking for solutions and self reflecting so long it can become a shocking situation. Honestly you can start to doubt yourself after having conversations and being clear about what you want..and yet there is no movement..I feel like a real ass and fool because being stuck in the same place before all of the talks.

After listening to some of the guys on here giving them their advice I feel like a real ASS... It seems so easy for people to give me advice and perhaps I am still looking for the solution when the writing is on the wall...


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## Betrayedone

OP, you guys are DONE! She does not want to be with you. Wrap your head around this and move on........Reading your rationalizations told me everything I need to know.........It was exhausting and frustrating.


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## David51

Livvie said:


> I'll explain. People expect a marriage to be monogamous. It's even in most marriage vows. That's why a woman who isn't providing sex in the marital relationship still expects her husband to be faithful. No one expects you to be monogamous to your kitchen (your home kitchen as your only source of food).
> 
> If your spouse isn't interested in having a healthy, intimate and ongoing sex life with you (but expects that you'll not be having sex with others, because you are indeed married) then it's on YOU to get yourself out of your sexless marriage. If it doesn't work for you, get out.
> 
> You know how the motto at Surviving Infidelity is get yourself out of infidelity? If your marriage is so lacking that your spouse has no desire for you and no desire to meet basic sexual needs such that you are considering having sex outside the marriage, maybe it's time to get yourself out of an unfulfilling marriage!!




My point was “she says that sex in the marriage is trivial and thinks it is silly and childish that he can’t see that ( I am quoting from another husbands posting ). My point is.....if it truly is as unimportant as she makes it sound. In their marriage then would sex with someone else really be cheating assuming it never became emotional for him?




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## Adelais

Does your wife know nothing about a man's need for sex to feel significant? Whether or not she "feels" like having sex, she should be initiating it regularly, if you are not the initiator, and are waiting for her cues.

Either she is aware that you need a sexual relationship with her and she doesn't care (and under this circumstance I would say you should divorce her) or she believes that you don't need sex, since she doesn't and you are not pressuring her for it.

I would suggest you sit her down, and you have a heart to heart with her.

1. Tell her that you understand that since menopause she doesn't have a sex drive and you don't judge her for that.

2. Explain that you do have a sex drive still, and that it is not just sexual, but through sex, you connect with her emotionally. Without sex, you are feeling yourself disconnecting emotionally with her.

3. Tell her how often your "ideal" frequency would be.

4. Ask her if she can meet you at least half way. She is not physically ill, and that you suspect that if she allowed herself to be with you, kiss, caress, etc, she would become aroused and be 100% involved. (Responsive arousal) Tell her that you will not penetrate her until she is aroused, but you would love to enjoy her body in other ways, and for her to show that she enjoys your body.

5 Tell her that you expect her to meet you half way, or you will have to reconsider your options. Make sure she knows that you will not cheat or have an affair to get your physical and emotional needs met, but you will divorce her to free yourself to find a woman who loves you enough to make love with you even in her old age. Give her a few days to think about it, and set a date to listen to her decision.

6. When she tells you her decision, proceed to rekindle your sexual relationship with her, or get the divorce process started.


***I believe there is more going on in her head than withholding sex, and most likely you also know it on some level. You just haven't identified or recognized the other issues.


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## Adelais

sunchild15 said:


> Thanks for your advice this all makes sense all this stuff can confuse a person especially if they've been with somebody for 20 years and all this seems like common sense in a partnership or teamwork I've always been part of teams throughout my life and I always believed that people should work on things together confusing that somebody would want to be with somebody for the rest of their life and talk about the future and talk about this and talk about that but they avoid something that's right in front of their nose thinking that confused the person especially they've been with somebody for 20 years and all the seems like common sense in a partnership or teamwork I've always been part of teens grab my life and I live believe the people should work on things together it's confusing the somebody would want to be with somebody the the rest of the life and talk about the teacher and talk about this and talk about that but they avoid something that's right in front of their nose thinking that maybe it's just going to go away so that's a confusing parted shocking and a way because you wouldn't think that you would have to draw boundary with someone that you're supposed to be in a loving relationship with the say hey like what's going on here you would think it would be coming sense and maybe that's the shocking cart that all this to me seems like comment sense I feel like when you go to a counselor and I've been to counselors before basically day pretty much explained you exactly what I've been thinking that you should talk and communicate about things and workout stuff get some most like they're telling me exactly what I already know so then you're spending you know $200 an hour especially because my wife feels like its a waste of money and she does want to go and then she's like well how these people going to tell me you know it's common sense gotta gotta gotta and when it really comes down to it its like what do I do just going spend money and talk to somebody by myself all that stupid.... So you're right I have to grow a big pair of them and decide what's important for me and then understand that perhaps people change and they just don't want to change or they feel comfortable where they are and I mean not to mention the fact that this Behavior impacts how my child is learning about relationships and I brought that up as well then and I'm told that I'm using my daughter is leverage to that it's not about her but I think it impacts the family as a whole as well


Can you edit this with paragraph breaks, sentences, grammar, etc.? I literally couldn't understand what you were trying to say, and didn't finish it. Probably others won't bother reading it either.


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## Adelais

One thing I left out. Are there other issues in your marriage that have affected your wife's attraction to you? I'm not trying to blame you for her rejection, but from real life experience. Iif I feel hurt, neglected, ignored, like I come 2nd or 3rd to other more important things in his life (advancement of his career, even if he is not being respected, treated right, etc. by his boss) that I don't want to make myself more vulnerable to him through the sexual act.

Something my husband does on a regular basis that causes me to hold back (not initiate as much as I would) is that he is nice, attentive, affectionate, even for a couple of days before we are intimate. I might even get upset with him about something, but he is patient, polite and forgiving about it *before *we are intimate.

Within hours of having a good, intimate, fulfilling time, he is not so patient, attentive, etc. and he finally gets snippy or angry with me over something that prior to making love, he would have overlooked. It makes me feel used.

After years of that, I am very leery of letting my guard down. Because I love him, am attracted to him, and feel I have a duty to be his sexual release, I am intimate with him again, only to be pushed away a few hours later. This has gone on for years, and now when it happens, I become very upset.


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## sunchild15

One thing I left out. Are there other issues in your marriage that have affected your wife's attraction to you? I'm not trying to blame you for her rejection, but from real life experience. If I feel hurt, neglected, ignored, like I come 2nd or 3rd to other more important things in his life (advancement of his career, even if he is not being respected, treated right, etc. by his boss) that I don't want to make myself more vulnerable to him through the sexual act.

RESPONSE - I have not made her feel this way at all, she always has time and I always take special time for her...I think other things that have impacted the attraction is perhaps that she is always watching social media and news on all of the horrible things going on the world. She has this mindset that she is trying to survive and make enough money.. Yet I feel as if that is mental, it does not matter if I bring in 15k in a month its never satisfying - she seems to always focus on the not having enough of money, which is kind of strange because there has never been a time where we were not safe, or provided for.. Again I feel its a kind of subjective stress, that we can not get everything we want - like buy a home, buy land, go clothes shopping for extras.. We live in a large city where overhead is quite a bit. As an example she signs my daughter up for every class she wants to 4-5 classes in a week and gets her everything that is needed... Lately she also says that she is working on all of these things online and spends hours of her day, but she does not feel like she is doing much - because she makes no money doing what she is doing - its kind of a hobby.. She also seems to depend on me to give her a plan around income, business and what she needs to do - I seem to be the generator of ideas and executing things.. I appreciate her, tell her she is doing a great job and I am her biggest fan when it comes to what she is doing but she does rely on me for advice, perhaps the intimacy thing subconciously is a way for her to have control around something in life ... IDK 

Something my husband does on a regular basis that causes me to hold back (not initiate as much as I would) is that he is nice, attentive, affectionate, even for a couple of days before we are intimate. I might even get upset with him about something, but he is patient, polite and forgiving about it before we are intimate.

RESPONSE - I am nice and patient all of the time, however you at least initiate. What is initiate defined as for you. How do you initiate ? My wife does not initiate, I always seem to be the one who hints towards or makes the move either being affectionate, holding hands, kissing or the last time asking for her to touch me, which I allowed to build and grow into us going all the way. But that was the last time and the time before that was about 1.5 years ago. So I feel like I am always patient, polite and even when she gets irritated or upset - I try to either make it fun or just take it as it is vs getting upset .. 

Within hours of having a good, intimate, fulfilling time, he is not so patient, attentive, etc. and he finally gets snippy or angry with me over something that prior to making love, he would have overlooked. It makes me feel used.

RESPONSE: No I actually feel more polite and friendly afterwards and more patient and attentive.. 

After years of that, I am very leery of letting my guard down. Because I love him, am attracted to him, and feel I have a duty to be his sexual release, I am intimate with him again, only to be pushed away a few hours later. This has gone on for years, and now when it happens, I become very upset.

RESPONSE: I do not know what to say there, I wish my wife had your attitude.. because I am fully supportive of my wife and what she does. In the past I even helped her start and finance other businesses even when I did not have the money to do so, I have been there for her all of the time. I think she is in this mindset - as if she has worked her whole life , what does she have to show for it - which comes to material things and acquired things.... I try and look at all the amazing things that I have in my life, the amazing journey and etc. There was a 2 year period back when all of this started where I literally made 3/4 of a million in income - and I can honestly say that I do not think the issue has to do with money... I feel its something else underlying .. I do feel she can be very independent about women's rights and she does verbalize how men do this and do that - and how the world is not fair, I notice that she feels angry when she looks at homeless or people that get taken advantage of.. it gets to her emotionally , maybe she just wants to be in control based on all the wrong doings of the world...No idea...


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## David51

Prodigal said:


> I decided to read this thread again before responding. All these suggestions you have made to your wife, from counseling to seeing a nutritionist, etc. come across as you being overbearing. At least that is what I'm hearing from my spot in cyberspace. Just like your wife told you to butt out of the situation with your daughter, she is also telling you to quit "suggesting" and just leave her alone about the sex issue.
> 
> 
> 
> I've known people who want to suggest and help. While they may have the best of intentions, the recipients frequently feel it's overbearing. If your wife wants to pump up her libido, she'll do it. After all, it is HER libido, not yours.
> 
> 
> 
> And, as I stated previously, for your wife to suggest you go out and bang someone else sounds like she wants you to leave her alone. Frankly, it sounds like she doesn't want you, or anyone else, analyzing her psyche, her motives, or her lack of libido.




So why not go find another woman for sex with no commitment. I know there is an acronym just can’t think of it. It sounds like she has given him a green light but the problem I see is , there is the certain possibility that he could meet someone and fall-in-love. IMO the wife is flirting with disaster.


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## Diana7

sunchild15 said:


> Its confusing because that is what it sounds like around sex. When it comes to everything else it looks different. She will say do you want to come with me to go exercise and take a walk. Do you want to go to the farmers market. I found some property or us..to look at buying - here is my idea for us... Oh what do you think we should do as far as building this company up together. We should all work together and build a brand... Do you want to watch something with me on the sofa.. When will you be home from work ?? I am waiting up for you.. Do you want something to eat ? She shares everything with me and wants me to be a part of everything .. Its just the sex does not seem to be connected or a priority. Again I am on here sharing what I want to solve, We all eat together, we are all loving, we all go out as a family .. Perhaps I am being overbearing ...See its really confusing when she says hey , do you want to take a walk with me and go get some coffee and we hold hands and she tells me about her worries and concerns... Or when she asks if I want to go get lunch with her - or she shares about the world.... It all seems aligned... and hey maybe I should not be so focused on her, she is talking about our future and all the things we should do .. etc ...Maybe if I am turned on - I should pleasure myself and be more sexual around the house ...All I can say is I am confused because when I look at it all, it seems she wants me around and next to her all of the time except for the sex... Listen I am just coming from LOVE, you would think if you just let things breathe, you were happy, a motivated amazing husband and Dad and supportive in many ways that you would not even have to ask for anything .... who wants to ask for sex or to have your love partner do things to you.. why because they forgot about all of that , or maybe the mental stress has disabled any desire for sex or wanting to have it .. Period ...
> 
> I have not heard from HARDLY any wives.. in a way I feel women have it so much easier then men. If we want something it becomes something that takes effort, where MEN are just expected to do it all, not complain and be the leader. We do all of these things out of responsibility... whether we feel like it or not , I literally bust my ASS and work like a horse... Yet I have to try and convince my wife why its important to work on things TOGETHER, I do not blame her, I come to her with LOVE and CONCERN...Honestly I know I do not need to have sex to feel worthy or valued, I miss it ... Now not only am I confused, I am asking myself on so many levels what else I can do...
> 
> I feel that before people get married they should have a plan / talk and really talk about what a TEAM is.. I have been on many teams and I am a team player... Listen last time we had sex on November 1st , it was great... because it had been so long... I kissed my wife she played with me for a while, I wanted her to get super excited so I let the energy build, then I kissed all over her body, savoring evert part of her body, enjoying her.. I went down on her and took my time savoring how delicious she was ... until she was super wet and wanted me in her.. I then grasped her and made love to her firmly, breathing and really enjoying her , it was so much fun.. I would sincerely like to do this more with her, before that it was almost 1.5 years before that we had sex...
> 
> I remember when I was 40 lbs heavier, and no where in as good as shape as I am now. She used to go down on me when I was in the car, not because I asked her or wanted it , because she wanted to.. I even remember when her parents came over to our place and while they were in the apartment we had sex in garage over the shifter, again that was her that did that ... in the backseat of a car in a public place... I remember while in Europe us having amazing sex and she used to always give me oral sex.. I love giving her oral sex as well, we used to even do 69's, other positions, from behind, sideways, her on top, and me on top - where she would squeeze me tightly...
> 
> It was SUPER passionate and juicy. I am a humble guy, I work out 5 times a week in fact last month I ran a half marathon, I am super healthy - I eat all organic healthy diet .. I am in the best shape of my life... I am just baffled and perhaps maybe my libido is higher... Listen whatever my wife wants I would do it for her ... I have asked, I have tried to schedule time etc ...Whats crazy is we do not even use a condom now because of the whole menopause thing, that to me seems even more exciting to me ! One less thing to worry about now.... HMM...
> 
> I do ENJOY sex very much .. when you have it far and few between - you do tend to think of it more...
> 
> I just wanted to see if there are any WOMEN who can share with me, WHAT has worked best in the past with YOUR HUSBAND getting you warmed up, initiating with you .. Anything that turned you on and got your libido going.. I would love to hear positive ideas from women, unless the majority of people on here are unhappy men ... trying to get a womens perspective !


The reason why I as a wife haven't replied, is because I can't understand your wife. As I have said on here before, being able to have sex with the one you love doesn't have to be dependant on libido, but you can have sex because you love your spouse and care about the marriage. To refuse sex for 1.5 years is just awful. I just cant understand that at all. 

When we married 12 years ago, aged 48 and 49, I made a decision then that I would never reject him for sex, as his ex had done many times. I never have nor he me. Do I always feel desperate for sex? No, but I do it because of my love for him. We can have and enjoy sex even if we don't 'feel' like it. That may come as a shock to some but its true.

I think its incredibly selfish to deprive your spouse of sex for long periods of time. 
I don't think its anything to do with tiredness,as she clearly has the energy to do other things that she wants to do. 

Saying that you can go elsewhere for sex is an awful thing to say. Sex should be kept in the marriage, and adultery causes terrible problems. 
You seem to be doing all the right things. 

Have you ever laid it all in the line and said that you cant go on like this,and that you fear for the marriage if this doesn't change? That you are not going to commit adultery but sex is very important for you?
I wonder what her reaction would be if she really thought the marriage may end unless she makes the effort to change things?


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## sunchild15

The reason why I as a wife haven't replied, is because I can't understand your wife. As I have said on here before, being able to have sex with the one you love doesn't have to be dependant on libido, but you can have sex because you love your spouse and care about the marriage. To refuse sex for 1.5 years is just awful. I just cant understand that at all. 

RESPONSE: I do not get this either.. Its baffling...

When we married 12 years ago, aged 48 and 49, I made a decision then that I would never reject him for sex, as his ex had done many times. I never have nor he me. Do I always feel desperate for sex? No, but I do it because of my love for him. We can have and enjoy sex even if we don't 'feel' like it. That may come as a shock to some but its true.

RESPONSE: Listen I would do anything if my wife asked me. I feel the same way ...and I have all along. I have never rejected my wife for anything.

I think its incredibly selfish to deprive your spouse of sex for long periods of time. 
I don't think its anything to do with tiredness,as she clearly has the energy to do other things that she wants to do.

RESPONSE: I agree with you, if she can be on the phone with relatives through 11 pm, and cook in the kitchen until midnight,
or wake up in the morning early to go to the gym...then surely she can find time for anything she wants to do ... 

Saying that you can go elsewhere for sex is an awful thing to say. Sex should be kept in the marriage, and adultery causes terrible problems. 
You seem to be doing all the right things. 

RESPONSE; This was a while back, but I think she felt pressure from me initiating with her. She would be very reactive and say everything from she does not think she can make me happy, maybe I should find someone else to have sex with or that she needed space and that we should separate for a while perhaps, there was a time I said ok.. because I was standing my ground and this was a while ago...then she said she wanted to work on things with me .. At this time, I feel she was very reactive to things.. Its hard to explain, but do you when someone is kind of depressed, emotional and irritable all the time - like someone who is exhausted, they say very weird unlogical things...its almost like they have a brain fart...and then they come through hours later to realize they went somewhere they did not want to go, is that a chemical / hormonal thing ? 

Have you ever laid it all in the line and said that you cant go on like this,and that you fear for the marriage if this doesn't change? That you are not going to commit adultery but sex is very important for you?
I wonder what her reaction would be if she really thought the marriage may end unless she makes the effort to change things?

RESPONSE; I have mentioned it - but LAID it on the line, I just keep finding myself being hopeful - focusing on positive - trying to think about the whole picture. What is weird when we spoke over a year ago several times - I would discuss creating something new with US, new possibilities and she would keep bringing up things from 3-4 years back reminding me about small times when I acted weird - sitting in a movie theatre too far from her, or acting weird around sex ( probably because of all the rejection before ) i got in my head while trying to initiate ...


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## MJJEAN

sunchild15 said:


> Saying that you can go elsewhere for sex is an awful thing to say. Sex should be kept in the marriage, and adultery causes terrible problems.
> You seem to be doing all the right things.
> 
> RESPONSE; This was a while back, but I think she felt pressure from me initiating with her. _*She would be very reactive and say everything from she does not think she can make me happy, maybe I should find someone else to have sex with or that she needed space and that we should separate for a while perhaps, there was a time I said ok.. because I was standing my ground and this was a while ago...then she said she wanted to work on things with me .. At this time, I feel she was very reactive to things..*_ Its hard to explain, but do you when someone is kind of depressed, emotional and irritable all the time - like someone who is exhausted, they say very weird unlogical things...its almost like they have a brain fart...and then they come through hours later to realize they went somewhere they did not want to go, is that a chemical / hormonal thing ?


The bolded is classic. It's a form of manipulation. She doesn't want to have sex with you and knows how to shut down the conversation, shift the focus, and get you so scared she may actually leave or let you leave that you stop talking about sex.

Really, though, I can't offer much help because I am attracted to my husband and like sex...a lot.


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## sunchild15

Appreciate the advice ...I'm sure there are lots of women who love their husband to want them, admire them and have sex with them....if my wife wanted it every day...I'd be happy to provide...there are studies that prove couples make more..are healthier ..live longer...look younger and it burns calories...


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## sunchild15

Last night at 10 pm..I was stroking my wife skin..giving her a light massage. She looked at me and said . What's up..? I kept rubbing her back and arm because I was being affectionate....she then turned over and moved away like 2 feet..my question was...what are you doing? She said ..it's time to go to sleep can't you see I'm going to sleep ..I said Ok. Your going to sleep ...and I went into my living room and read a book for a few hours ....

Now...what would be the right thing to do.. her reaction wasn't calm or peaceful it was abrupt...it was a fast move to the other side or bed and it was a description about going to sleep as if I should know to leave her alone...

It's now 530 am as I get up early most days. I'm thinking about meditating and then going to run 6 miles..and do some exercises at the beach...

Hmmm..I'm thinking that perhaps I should the 180..honestly all this is kind of getting to me ...I have been trying to look at being thankful for what I have and see if things shift with some new found realizations we had on a retreat ..

Her tired and sleeping pattern..seems to be constant ..i much say when I go work out by myself and do something physical I feel so much better ..

It's tricky..last night I thought to myself about my situation..should I sleep in a different room. Is that going to help anything . Except prove or illustrate to her that I am upset. Which is not in the 180...I wish she would wake up and get what she's doing ...because if this continues I have to really make a choice what I want .. I don't even understand how she thinks our marriage is healthy with this one part missing ...maybe she is just fully checked out ...of what's going on..maybe she is satisfied with working and sleeping ...


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## oldshirt

sunchild15 said:


> Last night at 10 pm..I was stroking my wife skin..giving her a light massage. She looked at me and said . What's up..? I kept rubbing her back and arm because I was being affectionate....she then turned over and moved away like 2 feet..my question was...what are you doing? She said ..it's time to go to sleep can't you see I'm going to sleep ..I said Ok. Your going to sleep ...and I went into my living room and read a book for a few hours ....
> 
> Now...what would be the right thing to do.. her reaction wasn't calm or peaceful it was abrupt...it was a fast move to the other side or bed and it was a description about going to sleep as if I should know to leave her alone...
> 
> It's now 530 am as I get up early most days. I'm thinking about meditating and then going to run 6 miles..and do some exercises at the beach...
> 
> Hmmm..I'm thinking that perhaps I should the 180..honestly all this is kind of getting to me ...I have been trying to look at being thankful for what I have and see if things shift with some new found realizations we had on a retreat ..
> 
> Her tired and sleeping pattern..seems to be constant ..i much say when I go work out by myself and do something physical I feel so much better ..
> 
> It's tricky..last night I thought to myself about my situation..should I sleep in a different room. Is that going to help anything . Except prove or illustrate to her that I am upset. Which is not in the 180...I wish she would wake up and get what she's doing ...because if this continues I have to really make a choice what I want .. I don't even understand how she thinks our marriage is healthy with this one part missing ...maybe she is just fully checked out ...of what's going on..maybe she is satisfied with working and sleeping ...



You are searching for a magic code to unlock her desire. There isn't one. 

I want you to do a little mental exercise here. Think of a woman you know in real life that is fat and gross and obnoxious and has virtually no redeeming qualities or anything that you find sexually attractive at all. Think of someone that basically makes your skin crawl and that would not have any kind of sex with if you stranded on a deserted island together for years. 

Do you have her pictured in your mind's eye?

OK, not imagine that you are in bed wanting to go to sleep and that woman crawled into be with you and started putting the moves on you. How would your body respond???

Don't even think about what you would say or how you would react yet....but how would your body react??

Your initial body reaction would be to stiffen up, yank away whatever body part she was touching and you would squirm away right?

That would occur before you say anything and before you would discuss it or make excuses for not having sex. 

Now I want you to do another part of this exercise. Picture that woman that you find the least sexually desireable again. Now this time ask yourself what she would need to do for you to truly and sincerely desire her? 

Would the amount of money she makes make you want to have sex with her? 

Would how helpful she was around the house make you desire her sexually?

Would the fact that she was nice and agreeable and supportive to you make you want to climb on and bang away? Would it actually even make it worse knowing that she was being nice and supportive just so she could get in your pants?

Would you even want to go on a vacation with her if you knew that she would want to have sex?

What would she need to do to make you truly yearn for her and desire her and be drawn to want to touch her and become one flesh with her?

Is there really ANYTHING other than completely transforming and becoming another person that would not make you tense up and pull away from her when she tries to touch you and arouse you? 

I'm sure you can see where I am going with this. 

I'm not trying to be mean or cruel, but this is how your wife sees you. She sees you in the same light that you would view that fat, smelly, toothless, bad-breathed, obnoxious and brazen woman in your mind's eye. 

You may be handsome and physically fit and financially successful and you may be a truly decent person - but her response to you is exactly the same as your response to that fat, disgusting troll. 

She is not sexually attracted to you. Her body rejects you and pulls away from you instinctively and reactively even without her conscious effort. 

Attraction and desire is not a choice. It can't be negotiated. 

Cont.....


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## oldshirt

Cont...


You have just a few basic options here if you want to have a meaningful sex life. Your options are -

- Take her up on the offer of getting it elsewhere with her foreknowledge and consent. 

- Get it elsewhere without her knowledge and consent.

-divorce and move on as a single man.

- transform yourself into an entirely different person in hopes she finds the new person attractive. 

That's really it. You other option is to just suck it up and live as platonic roommates where you pay for everything and she worries about having enough stuff. 

There is no secret code to crack or some kind of secret handshake or some kind of special gift that if you give her where she will be overcome with desire and want to ravage you. She either feels attraction and desire for the man that you are or she does not.


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## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> Cont...
> 
> 
> You have just a few basic options here if you want to have a meaningful sex life. Your options are -
> 
> - Take her up on the offer of getting it elsewhere with her foreknowledge and consent.
> 
> - Get it elsewhere without her knowledge and consent.
> 
> -divorce and move on as a single man.
> 
> - transform yourself into an entirely different person in hopes she finds the new person attractive.
> 
> .


 @sunchild15

I can break these options down a little and give you some basic pros and cons of each if that will help. 

#1- get it elsewhere with her consent.

This is a tricky one and a potential minefield. If she is sincerely OK with you getting it elsewhere, then that means she has absolutely zero desire for you and has no intention of ever having any kind of sexual relations with you ever again. Think back to that fat, smelly woman in your mental exercise above; that is what you would tell her to do. If your wife actually wants you to get it elsewhere, then she sees you in the same light as you see the fat, smelly pig and there is no hope. 

The other possibility is that it is a manipulation and a ploy to get you involved with someone else and then play the adultery card and claim that you are a cheating pig and will use that as leverage against you. 

The real catch to all of this is that it is actually pretty unrealistic that you would be able to get an attractive FWB that you don't have to pay for under these circumstances. It is actually quite difficult for a man to get a side piece WITH their wife's knowledge and consent. Very few women will knowingly enter into an arraignment where they are the side piece. Any woman that would agree to that would likely be pretty unattractive and desperate. Ironically it is a lot easier for a man to cheat and screw around without his wife's consent than it is with his wife's consent. 

Your wife knows this and knows that the chances of you getting anything on the side with her knowledge and consent with any kind of decent, attractive woman is pretty much zilch so it really doesn't cost her anything to offer it. 

#2 - get it without her consent.

This is actually the easiest option. If you are reasonably fit and good looking and successful, you would be able to find someone of low character and give them a song and dance about how awful your wife is and how you wished you could find someone like them to ride off into the sunset with and live happily ever after. There will be some chick out there dinghy enough to fall for that. 

The catch to this option is that once your wife finds out, she will make your life a living hell and if you live in one of the few remaining "fault" states for divorce, she would use that against you legally in the divorce. 

#3. Divorce.

The catch to this one is that it will cost you lawyer and court fees and if there is a large difference in your incomes, you may have to pay her spousal support. 

I'm assuming your kids are older or are even sub-adults if not young adults so all this crap about divorce damaging the kids etc is all crap. Their inconvenience would be traveling between two houses and who's house to go to for Christmas dinner. 

Other than that, the other cons are all the paperwork and packing and moving if you are the one moving out. 

It will also depend on how miserable your wife will want to make you during the divorce. She may want her freedom and to get away too, in which case she may be quite cooperative and agreeable. But she may also want to raise a stink and make it difficult. 

If that is the case then you have to decide which is more miserable, living with her day to day indefinitely or putting up with her being real miserable for a temporary time during the divorce process. 

The payoff of divorce is that you can be a free man again and can get your balls back and can date and bed any woman that will have you and if you are fit and take care of yourself and are financially self-supporting, then there will be plenty that will have you. 

You main regret after your divorce will be that you did not do it a lot sooner. 

#4 - transform yourself into someone that she will be attracted to.

If you were fat and slovenly and unemployed, I would encourage you to try this option first. If someone is fat and slovenly, just losing the weight and dressing better and grooming better etc can have a big effect. If someone is unemployed and sitting on the couch playing video games while the bills pile up, getting gainfully employed can also make a big difference. 

But if you are already fit and looking sharp and are already financially stable, then a new hairstyle or getting your teeth a little whiter or going from 15% body fat to 12% body fat is probably not going to make much difference. 

You could try becoming an actual fitness model or bodybuilder or triathlete I suppose, but I doubt if she respond to that too much. 

Other women will dig it, so there is that. But if you are already reasonably fit, take care of yourself and are successful, then the chances are she is simply not attracted to YOU. 

Don't be surprised if some day she is all over some other guy that is in many regards a much lesser man. It happens all the time.


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## David51

Diana7 said:


> While I see your point, the fact is that we dont die without sex. I think this wife is VERY wrong to deny her husband sex, but if he did cheat its still also wrong. I would never cheat even if my husband couldn't or wouldn't have sex again, and I certainly wouldn't divorce over it, because 2 wrongs don't make a right.




No we don’t but the marriage will.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

You can't make your wife want to have sex with you. She doesn't want to. If I were you I would set a time and then resolve in your mind that if there is no change after this time I am going to divorce her. Then I would tell here, "Look I am not sure what it is, maybe it is clinical maybe emotional, maybe you are gay, maybe you are not attracted to me, but unless we are fixing this by the date you say you will start proceedings for divorce." 

You don't need to make vows to live as platonic friends. That is what you are. You can sell be great friends without being married. I would tell her as such. 

Personally I think it's emotional. I think the night where you were stroking her she realized where it was going and got scared. I might even ask here if she was raped or sexually abused. Her reaction reminds me of that. 

Anyway that's my two cents.


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## sokillme

So I checked the thread and I don't think I told this story here. I get confused as there is like 9 of these sexless marriage threads on this board. 

So I was reading another board and there was a guy on there posting. It completely opened my eyes on this stuff and solidified my thinking. 

So the guy ,who was religious as he mentioned that was one of the reasons he stayed, posts this. When my wife stopped having sex with me she sad she was going through the change of life. It was terribly painful for me but I loved my wife and we had a great marriage besides that, so I decided I would just had to accept that she didn't want to have sex anymore. Then 2 years later she had her affair. Then I realized it wasn't that she didn't want to have sex it's that she didn't want to have sex with me. 

He caught her and she was terribly ashamed and distraught all the normal things that some adulterers do when they get caught, but afterwords she still didn't want to have sex with him. So he divorced her. (Why he would think of keeping her anyway is beyond me but I digress.) It was more then obvious now she just wasn't attracted to him anymore, if she ever was.

Now here is the thing maybe at the time before she had an affair she did think her libido was killed of by her menopause but the guy she had an affair with charged it up again. What matters is the issue was always there whether she had an affair or not. She was not healthy. She was not a good partner. They guy thought they had a good marriage but they didn't. One of the most important parts of their marriage didn't exist. He was fooling himself and eventually the dysfunction in their marriage imploded it in the most painful way imaginable. 

This is what I came to see from this. Whether you decide to try to hold on to this or not, your marriage is broken. Your marriage is not a good marriage. It is unsustainable. Maybe you will last until one of you dies, metaphorically run out the clock, but more likely something is going to come along and blow it all up. It's built on sand. It's missing one of the most important pillars of marriage. Physical intimacy and how sex works for men (sex leads to) emotional intimacy. Personally if it were me I would try to end it minimizing the damage as controlled as possible. I wouldn't want to end up like that guy. 

You may think you can hold out forever but you are taking a very serious risk. Remember these words. "It wasn't that she didn't want to have sex, it's that she didn't want to have sex with me."


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## Satya

Well there could be many factors involved that are not established (yet) in fact, like abuse/ CSA.

Or maybe she just plain old finds you cloying and pervasive, like a fart in a telephone booth.

Personally, I tend to find that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. It's probably the answer that causes you the most hurt outright to think about and consider, but it'll also save you a LOT of energy from speculating what the other, possible 1000+ reasons could be.

The fact she recoiled from your touch says a lot, and none of it is good.


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## sokillme

Satya said:


> Well there could be many factors involved that are not established (yet) in fact, like abuse/ CSA.
> 
> Or maybe she just plain old finds you cloying and pervasive, like a fart in a telephone booth.
> 
> Personally, I tend to find that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. It's probably the answer that causes you the most hurt outright to think about and consider, but it'll also save you a LOT of energy from speculating what the other, possible 1000+ reasons could be.
> 
> The fact she recoiled from your touch says a lot, and none of it is good.


I agree. It's why I always post the previous post now on these threads. I think if the rejected spouse comes to terms with the idea that the other spouse probably isn't attracted to them it gives them some finality on the situation. That lets them move on whatever that may be. It is painful but say it's true, that doesn't mean someone else won't be attracted to you. Why stay with someone who rejects you over and over? You can't make someone want to have sex with you. That is not how humanity works.


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## Anastasia6

Ok so here goes.. A woman here. I find it ironic you come to the women's section and get mostly men's advice.

I don't know the answer. I do know if all the 'standard' answers worked there wouldn't be so many unresolved sexless threads.

I have been married 24 years but have not went through menopause.

I don't think being sexless is ok. So please don't take any of the questions or suggestions as saying it is ok or your fault.

Having an eight year old at 50 is not ideal. Children so drain a lot of time, energy and focus. You add that in at a time when your body is failing you and you are now past your peak. Insecurities abound.

I noticed in one thread she seemed to do all the cooking cleaning transporting daughter and homework help, and watch tv. What is it you do with your daughter?

Do you know her love language? Do you guys spend quality time together without your daughter?

You work from home have you ever tried making a move in the morning after daughter is off to school? Or planned a small weekend get away where sex can be a morning thing when there are no responsibilities and everyone is well rested?

BTW don't know if I qualified as sexless but I remember when my daughter was born we had about a year of rarely. For me it was painful and the first time we tried I literally made him stop mid-sex. After that I was embarrassed and scared so I avoided for a while then after catching him with porn (which is not ok in our house) I decided we have to try again. I just bit my upper lip for six months until it stopped hurting. I didn't have the courage to tell him it hurt cause I knew he'd stop. We had other ebbs and flows with our child around and stress from work. Now we have sex 5-12 times a week, so it can get better.

I can also tell you me and my husband are really close considerate of each other. But we didn't talk about sex much. It was still kinda awkward for us. Considering your age and her reactions she may be feeling awkward as well. And the suggestion to find someone else to have sex with could be viewed as cold and cruel or as a insecure comment. I've told my husband he should dump me and find a younger skinnier girl who like cleaning house. I've even mentioned with his money making and kindness he'd be swimming in women. Is it because I want him to leave? No it's because we are middle aged and I'm not any of those things. I'm insecure even though I know with ALL of my being he loves me and is here to the end.


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## Anastasia6

I'll also beat my favorite drum. When you are intimate how does it go? What do you do to satisfy her? Most women don't orgasm for PIV and standard missionary is one of the worst positions for a woman's pleasure.

I find orgasming is the best way to get my motor running. You know what I want after an earth shattering orgasm? A nap and more sex.

On the other hand if I go for two to three days without an orgasm ( notice I could have sex but no orgasm). Then I could go a long time and not really miss it. I'm very much responsive desire.

As women age, we are less likely to do things just because someone else wants us to. When I first got married I occasionally gave my husband oral sex to please him. Wasn't my favorite, now I do it cause I want to. I think he can tell the difference too.

Please note sex for women can be hard to enjoy if they can't turn off their brains. Also many of us were raised with negative implications about sex.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have or expand any ideas.

This is normally where some of the men will respond with how stupid everything I wrote is. Just cause 3 or 4 people post a lot doesn't mean it's right. Feel free to private message me if you want I don't block people.


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## David51

Livvie said:


> I'll explain. People expect a marriage to be monogamous. It's even in most marriage vows. That's why a woman who isn't providing sex in the marital relationship still expects her husband to be faithful. No one expects you to be monogamous to your kitchen (your home kitchen as your only source of food).
> 
> If your spouse isn't interested in having a healthy, intimate and ongoing sex life with you (but expects that you'll not be having sex with others, because you are indeed married) then it's on YOU to get yourself out of your sexless marriage. If it doesn't work for you, get out.
> 
> You know how the motto at Surviving Infidelity is get yourself out of infidelity? If your marriage is so lacking that your spouse has no desire for you and no desire to meet basic sexual needs such that you are considering having sex outside the marriage, maybe it's time to get yourself out of an unfulfilling marriage!!



You misunderstood me, I am happy in my marriage and under some circumstances like if my wife could not have sex for a medical or even mental problems I could see me going without as there is so much more to our marriage than sex. 

I read these sad stories here where the wife refuses and gives no explanation as to why. Young men stuck in a sexless marriage and with children no options.

Marriages should have a contract associated with them not just vows. Husband and wife


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## sunchild15

Anastasia: Here is reply to your post:

I'll also beat my favorite drum. When you are intimate how does it go? What do you do to satisfy her? Most women don't orgasm for PIV and standard missionary is one of the worst positions for a woman's pleasure.

RESPONSE: When we are intimate it does go great as long as wife is into it and she does not give me the "tired card" or what are you doing? So that could be a sign that perhaps its more of a health thing or something..mystery. For example when we had sex a month ago, I asked her to touch me while I was also massaging myself on my penis. She was massaging me for some time for like 10-15 minutes and getting me real hard all over and was really into it. I then started kissing her on her chest each nipple at a time very slowly and sucking and swirling my tongue around each nipple and really enjoying it - keep in mind it had been about a year since we had sex... After that I worked down to hear vagina and devoured her down there and she seems to enjoy when I give her oral sex before we have sex... I got her nice and wet and licked her really good. We did have sex missionary style where I grabbed her ass and pulled it into me. She had an orgasm - then she asked me if I came yet .. It was very enjoyable. She seems to like missionary position and for the last few years we have not had any sex other than missionary - sometimes we have sex on our side but never any doggy style or her on top. I have been thinking about doing it a different way - next time because I like doggy style and also her on top because I feel I can really get some deep penetration. 

I find orgasming is the best way to get my motor running. You know what I want after an earth shattering orgasm? A nap and more sex.

RESPONSE: I would think a woman would be excited to have more sex after an orgasm. In the last 5 years, we have never had sex - more than once in a week : EVER that I can remember. That is what is interesting to me. Perhaps its because we have sex at night all of the time and usually she wants to just go to bed and rest after that. There has never been a time where she or I have cum even more than once during a session. I have in the past with other partners, yet I do not want to say - honey .. I was comparing past sex to sex in my marriage - here is what I am thinking and wondering about. What goes on with you after we have sex ? Where does your mind go ? Why are we always done for the week? 

On the other hand if I go for two to three days without an orgasm ( notice I could have sex but no orgasm). Then I could go a long time and not really miss it. I'm very much responsive desire.

RESPONSE:
I would love to give my wife oral without having sex with her. We used to about 10 years ago have 69 position and she would give me oral sex and even let me explode in her mouth. We used to have much more fun..She used to even give me oral and have sex in the car at times. However I can not say that we have had any exciting adventures around sex - like doing it because it was a challenge. We did have sex in car and I can count that on 1 hand however - I just wish we were more passionate! Like I said : No more than 1 time per week in the past when we were doing it weekly and that has not been since about 2011..

As women age, we are less likely to do things just because someone else wants us to. When I first got married I occasionally gave my husband oral sex to please him. Wasn't my favorite, now I do it cause I want to. I think he can tell the difference too.

RESPONSE: I feel like since we got married the SEX has dropped 500% then before we were married. I do not know how to even communicate this. I feel that my wife is just occupied with Mom things and cooking and other things ( Mentally ) now. I have even done things for her the whole day with daughter and she still finds a way to be busy. I just have no idea how else to communicate with her. DO I bring her a journal and say hey... Things have changed : Here is the data: In the last 4 years we have had sex 5 times. Honey there is obviously something going on to have sex 1 time in the last year. Either you want to do something about this or not - but either way I need to know if this is what your committed to ? Is this something that does not matter to you or makes you happy/ unhappy? Do you have any desire to want to work on this together ? 

Please note sex for women can be hard to enjoy if they can't turn off their brains. Also many of us were raised with negative implications about sex.

RESPONSE: This could be this biggest problem for her. It seems that even last night after daughter went to sleep: she seems to want to turn on the TV..all of the time until she is exhausted. Then go to sleep. We have had discussions about making time with no TV and its every night. If I want any alone time with her in the evening : she almost gets like why or what are we going to do. Seriously I feel she has some issues that burn out her energy around sex and relaxing .. But she will not go get help and talks do not work. She communicates stuff to me through emails because when we speak it does not seem to go many places - she seems to deflect all responsibility for anything to me ..

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have or expand any ideas.

RESPONSE: I will send you some of her email if you want to try and decipher her communication. Honestly its so back and forth between disconnected and connected. She says she loves me and cares about me, yet part of it she feels me being with her is some lesson for me to learn and grow around for life. I agree there because I am extremely understanding and its caused me to look at myself everywhere .. 

This is normally where some of the men will respond with how stupid everything I wrote is. Just cause 3 or 4 people post a lot doesn't mean it's right. Feel free to private message me if you want I don't block people.

RESPONSE: I have been looking at different information such as RED PILL MARRIAGE, No more mr nice guy, Married Man Sex Primer and many other avenues however perhaps I am doing TOO much on myself. I am already in amazing shape. You have no idea how many females socialize with me in public and people that I meet. I am fit and just ran 1/2 marathon - run and lift weights every week - eat organic - in fact I am amazingly vibrant in life and generate all sorts of opportunities - but in my marriage I seem to be stuck on this situation that has not progressed. I stay positive, I do not come from being needy - lately though - Its really getting to me that I may have to have another discussion or talk. Maybe I should write a letter for her to think about and ask for specific responses and solutions by a certain date.. I do not know if that boosts sexual desire and attraction but at this point I do not feel like being strung along for the next 10 years of life.


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## sunchild15

Yesterday I was listening to the radio and a wife called in and said her husband was unhappy with the amount of sex they were having. That she has sex with her husband 4-6 times per week. As I listened I thought - WOW. Imagine having sex 4-6 times per week and my other thought was : Wow her husband has issues and she feels bad because she only had sex with him 4-6 times per week. She works and is busy or else she would have more energy. Then I thought, Wow.. My wife has so much time, perhaps it be best she gets a job - because at this point - hmm. She works with me in the business, yet yesterday she was in the kitchen working on some food from 2:30 Pm to 8 Pm ... When she goes to work out twice per week she works out at in the am . She leaves at 830 am and she comes back from training at 11 am, had breakfast and takes a shower til 12 noon. So two of her week days she works out...

I do quite a bit around the house to answer someone else's question:

Get up at 5 am / 6 am.. Me, wake up daughter to get her going. Every day I take my daughter to school and drop her off and most days I pick her up from school as well. In addition most nights I also put my daughter to sleep. Give her baths, take her to parties and play dates. On the weekend I take her to classes on Sunday, today I am taking her to two appointments.

Tue/Thur I work out at gym from 5:30 am to 7 am with trainer, weights and cardio. Some other mornings I run 5 miles. I usually run about 15 miles per week. I run my company and deal with clients in addition to sometimes working a 12 hour day 2-3 times per week for another project. I also will go grocery shopping at times, go on a water run or grab things at the market. In addition get coffee most mornings on the way back from dropping off my daughter. I wash all of my own clothes and fold them and take others to the cleaners. 1-2 other days I go to park and do exercises and sprints as well. I wash all of my own dishes and many times put away dishes when I get up or after I was them. Just so you can get a picture of what our balance of responsibilities are.


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## Prodigal

Sorry. I don't buy into what you are selling. It's all too one-sided for me. You are supposedly this buff, sexy, nice, helpful guy. But your wife doesn't want to get intimate; well, except for that one time recently that you described in explicit detail. Gotta be honest with you here - I am not interested in how much her thighs may (or may not) have twitched when you went down on her. Seriously.

Bottom line: You are horny as hell. Your wife is indifferent most of the time. Something doesn't equate. My late husband had a very nice body (army officer). But I became turned off as his alcoholism progressed. Either your wife is (1) seeing another dude, (2) seeing another gal, or (3) you aren't as perfect as what you describe here. Sorry. 

The only thing I can offer is you become more alpha and assert yourself. I LOVED it when my husband took the reins and dominated. Not in a mean/misogynistic way, but he let his testosterone shine through. Made me drop my drawers every single time.


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## sunchild15

Prodigal:

Perhaps I need to take charge of everything so she does not have do anything. I get what you are saying yet: I do not know what to say here to your comments. My wife gives me compliments and tells me I look great and I am doing well. Your saying that perhaps I am not what I say I am, listen I did a call with the author of Married Man Sex Primer, he stated if I looked like Brad Pitt - it would not matter based on changes going on in her body and what I described.... Do you think that perhaps it could be possible - that my wife is just dealing with health issues..yawning all of the time - being irritable not just with me but with daughter and others as well ?

I guess I could try to provide 100% of the income..I could handle all of the bills, have someone clean the home, have someone else take care of the daughter, aside from the fact that I am directing business strategies and everything else... Perhaps that would be ideal for her...

I do not know. I can provide the worry that my wife feels constantly. Today she was worried about people being killed by the government in the past, she is focused on scheduling stuff for our daughter and finances of living in a big city....however even when there has been lots of money coming in still some other form of worry takes over her mind.

I mean gosh there was a 2 years period where I made over 700k, and we still had issues surrounding relationship and sex was perhaps 1 time per week or 1 time every 2 weeks at the time. Again - I do not thinks its financial, however when we first starting going out I was make a small fraction of what I make today and less focused ...along with being 30-40lbs heavier and we had more adventurous sex, and she was more aggressive .. I wish I knew the answer - maybe she has to choose to want to want to work on it ...


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## Livvie

I think you should stop analyzing the situation. It's getting you nowhere. Your wife isn't into you. You aren't fat, ugly, ungroomed, mean... and she is provided a stable, secure life by you. You do more than your fair share of child rearing and home chores. Given this life situation, she still isn't into you. You aren't going to make her be into you. Only she can do that. She doesn't want to do that.


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## Betrayedone

Sorry to say it but you guys are done.........cut your losses and move on........


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## Prodigal

Dude, just give it a rest, okay? So you are more of a stud than Brad Pitt. We get it. You earn a billion dollars a year. Fine.

If you are half as obsessed in real life as you are here, I can understand why your wife wants you to leave her the hell alone. She isn't into you. You get on her nerves. You won't let this go. You are a royal PIA.

Frankly, you sound like a phony to me. You think you are such hot crap, but gee, WHY DOESN'T SHE WANT YOU???? Okay. I'll bite again. You sound like a total turn off to me. And this is coming from a woman. You came here for opinions/advice from married women, so you are getting it. You come across as needy, pathetic, and clingy. Please do me a HUGE favor and don't tell me again about your rippling pecks, tight buns, fantastic salary, or what a great guy you are. 

YOUR WIFE DOESN'T WANT YOU. Okay? Comprende? JEESH!!!!! Just shuddup already. Seriously.


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## sunchild15

Wow.


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## sunchild15

Your not listening to what I am saying. I was just saying that when I spoke to a counselor who deals with married couples, he stated that even if you were Brad Pitt - if a women has thyroid and endocrinal issues she could have no libido and sex drive. I was just saying the facts and framing the response that I do not think some of the things apply. Your entitled to your opinion. Every person in this world is different.

So you feel if someone was depressed, constantly filled their mind with stressful focuses and was going through meno-pause that everything should be normal and all that would make no difference towards a relationship or attraction?

You are not even getting what I am saying : you have twisted it into something else.


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## Prodigal

Y-a-w-n.


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## Prodigal

sunchild15 said:


> So you feel if someone was depressed, constantly filled their mind with stressful focuses and was going through meno-pause that everything should be normal and all that would make no difference towards a relationship or attraction?
> 
> You are not even getting what I am saying : you have twisted it into something else.


Nah, I'm not getting it. Your wife has emotional/menopausal/physical stuff going on. Okay. 

Again, Y-A-W-N.


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## Omego

sunchild15 said:


> I wanted to try yet one more time to try and find a solution to my sexless marriage. Been two years now, wife and I talk all of the time, work together , walks together, do fun things, go on trips, I am on purpose with career. Wife just checked out sexually. She is more into sleep and going through menopause. Last year when I suggested counselor, doctor and other ideas together she said and did everything to avoid and come up with excuses. we both exercise, both eat plant basd organic food, super positive life...
> 
> What do I do ? Last conversation we had months back was something that went in the direction, that I have it because we are married that she is the only person that I can have sex with , that she is not responsible to fulfill my needs if she does not feel like this.
> 
> Yet, she will discuss future plans, buy a home, vacations, things we can work on together , projects etc, we do fun things, yet when it comes to intimacy, bedroom or anything around it - avoidance, she switches to TV or tired or some other excuse. I do not want to come off needy in any way...
> 
> I just have no idea what to do after my many self working on me attempts. We have a great family with daughter and I just feel like I do need her involvement and the time that has passed in my opinion will not us connecting in that way since its been so long...
> 
> How do I make head way ?
> Someone suggested that if I am turned on to focus on pleasing myself with her next to me perhaps that would get her in the mood, by me doing me and get her warmed up to it . I do not want to come off needy in any way, I have not initiated with her, Just hold her hand, hug her, walk with her and kiss her .. That is as far as it goes...its kind of messing with my mind...
> 
> Any thoughts of suggestions for women who have been through the same with menopause? Will she get her libido back?
> I really do not want to look elsewhere...I wanted to work on us, maybe I really need to go further with where I should go
> with this and what is she committed to ? What is the solution that works for us both ? I just feel lost in this ...
> 
> Thank in advance !


It's not menopause. She's not attracted to you and sees you as a companion/provider/security blanket. That's it. If you are satisfied with this, then accept it and continue as you are doing. There's no need to overthink this. However, if you don't want to continue to life this way, you're going to have to make a decision. It's all up to you now.


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## Omego

sunchild15 said:


> I wanted to try yet one more time to try and find a solution to my sexless marriage. Been two years now, wife and I talk all of the time, work together , walks together, do fun things, go on trips, I am on purpose with career. Wife just checked out sexually. She is more into sleep and going through menopause. Last year when I suggested counselor, doctor and other ideas together she said and did everything to avoid and come up with excuses. we both exercise, both eat plant basd organic food, super positive life...
> 
> What do I do ? Last conversation we had months back was something that went in the direction, that I have it because we are married that she is the only person that I can have sex with , that she is not responsible to fulfill my needs if she does not feel like this.
> 
> Yet, she will discuss future plans, buy a home, vacations, things we can work on together , projects etc, we do fun things, yet when it comes to intimacy, bedroom or anything around it - avoidance, she switches to TV or tired or some other excuse. I do not want to come off needy in any way...
> 
> I just have no idea what to do after my many self working on me attempts. We have a great family with daughter and I just feel like I do need her involvement and the time that has passed in my opinion will not us connecting in that way since its been so long...
> 
> How do I make head way ?
> Someone suggested that if I am turned on to focus on pleasing myself with her next to me perhaps that would get her in the mood, by me doing me and get her warmed up to it . I do not want to come off needy in any way, I have not initiated with her, Just hold her hand, hug her, walk with her and kiss her .. That is as far as it goes...its kind of messing with my mind...
> 
> Any thoughts of suggestions for women who have been through the same with menopause? Will she get her libido back?
> I really do not want to look elsewhere...I wanted to work on us, maybe I really need to go further with where I should go
> with this and what is she committed to ? What is the solution that works for us both ? I just feel lost in this ...
> 
> Thank in advance !


It's not menopause. She's not attracted to you and sees you as a companion/provider/security blanket. That's it. If you are satisfied with this, then accept it and continue as you are doing. There's no need to overthink this. However, if you don't want to continue to live this way, you're going to have to make a decision. It's all up to you now.


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## john117

Humans tend to look for answers even in cases where there aren't any. I'm guilty of that like everyone else.

Our friend's problem here is that he thinks he's the one with the problem. And, of course, in typical TAM fashion, the peanut gallery is quick to respond.

Here's a hint. Learn to live on half your income and get out. Not to run into the fields and get lucky like Julie Andrews on The Sound of Music, but because you're on a one way ticket to nowhere as it is. 

Sex is not your problem. Entitlement is. Hers. Some people simply are not sexual at that age. That's fine. But the entitlement fairy transcends age or desire.


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## Prodigal

@john117 - What you have said makes perfect sense. My TOTAL frustration with the OP is he DOES NOT LISTEN. Numerous posters have told him his wife isn't into him. But he persists in trying to delve into her psyche. If he can't figure out - and he lives with her - why the heck would he keep trying to get the answer to his problem from total strangers in cyberspace? I mean, DUH.

My reason for total exasperation/frustration with the OP is because he won't let this go. If he is anywhere near in real life to what he posts online ... I can certainly understand why his wife doesn't want him to come near her.

Note that when I told him to just shut up, he went on to give some explanation as to why she might not want sex. WE GET IT. SHE DOESN'T WANT SEX WITH YOU.

And @john117 - But your advice is spot on. Get busy living or get busy dying. In this case, it's called cut your losses and find someone who wants to jump your bones.

THE. END.


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## john117

Almost.

She's not into sex - period -. Not with him, not with Harrison Ford, not with the pool guy. 

The peanut gallery has yet to comprehend the existence of female sexual dysfunctions or cultural aspects that play into same. If she wanted sex she'd get it. One way or another. The gallery's availability heuristic is stunning. You get lucky 4x a week, in your 30s or 40s, and think everyone else rumbles the sheets at the same rate. Not so. 

The end result is the same, but you save a lot in frustration on the way there.


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## Prodigal

john117 said:


> She's not into sex - period -. Not with him, not with Harrison Ford, not with the pool guy.


Spot on. She is invested in the comfortable lifestyle she inhabits. Nothing more.


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## sahtrader

Ouch! Being a woman, I realize that hormones have a lot to do with libido. Sometimes eating certain foods increases libido, like foods high in folate. Nonetheless, whether she "feels it" or not there should be some consideration for you.


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## ConanHub

john117 said:


> Almost.
> 
> She's not into sex - period -. Not with him, not with Harrison Ford, not with the pool guy.
> 
> The peanut gallery has yet to comprehend the existence of female sexual dysfunctions or cultural aspects that play into same. If she wanted sex she'd get it. One way or another. The gallery's availability heuristic is stunning. You get lucky 4x a week, in your 30s or 40s, and think everyone else rumbles the sheets at the same rate. Not so.
> 
> The end result is the same, but you save a lot in frustration on the way there.


This member of the peanut gallery has dealt with female hormone problems, sexual dysfunction and poor attitude towards sex and I still get laid when I wink.

If Mrs. Conan ever "chose" to ignore the sexual mate she married, she would soon become the ex Mrs. C.

I love her but will never be denied and she knows it.

Women who deny their men sex while being even moderately physically healthy, are in need of education.

I guaranty enthusiastic sex would be back on their menu in a heartbeat if they found circumstances required it.


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## notmyrealname4

/


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## Mr. Nail

Two observations. 
You live in a big city. She wants to own land and grow food.
Your hobby is worrying. You need to dump that hobby and start doing something that will catch her attention. (see above ^)


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## lookingforpeace

I am at a very different age then what it seems you and your wife are.....but I can relate to the sex thing. Every one tells me to be patient, that after having a child my libido will perk up but I feel so bad for my husband because I hardly ever want sex. He is very patient with me and tells me that I shouldn't feel obligated to have sex. I still feel bad because as a woman, we have been raised to think we are here to pleasure a man which just isn't the case. 

If this is something you truly cannot deal with for years to come or forever, if I were you, end the relationship. You have already discussed your issues and she hasn't been proactive about changing.


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## Diana7

lookingforpeace said:


> I am at a very different age then what it seems you and your wife are.....but I can relate to the sex thing. Every one tells me to be patient, that after having a child my libido will perk up but I feel so bad for my husband because I hardly ever want sex. He is very patient with me and tells me that I shouldn't feel obligated to have sex. I still feel bad because as a woman, we have been raised to think we are here to pleasure a man which just isn't the case.
> 
> If this is something you truly cannot deal with for years to come or forever, if I were you, end the relationship. You have already discussed your issues and she hasn't been proactive about changing.


Why not make a decision to have sex with your husband anyway. We don't always have to 'feel' like having sex before we do. When I married my husband 12 years I made a decision never to refuse him sex. So far I haven't, and I don't always feel like it but do it because I love him and love giving him that pleasure.


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## john117

ConanHub said:


> This member of the peanut gallery has dealt with female hormone problems, sexual dysfunction and poor attitude towards sex and I still get laid when I wink.
> 
> If Mrs. Conan ever "chose" to ignore the sexual mate she married, she would soon become the ex Mrs. C.
> 
> I love her but will never be denied and she knows it.
> 
> Women who deny their men sex while being even moderately physically healthy, are in need of education.
> 
> I guaranty enthusiastic sex would be back on their menu in a heartbeat if they found circumstances required it.


"require it" is up to interpretation.

Generalizing from one's typically limited experience is not always viable.

And, "educating" someone assumes they are open to being "educated".

And this is before we bring in mental health issues to the table. 

In an ideal world, what you wrote is correct, but in most people's world, there's a plethora of factors that complicate matters. The most important thing is willingness to acknowledge the issue and commitment to work on a resolution.


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## sunchild15

Diana7: I think you should teach classes for wives ! 
Its pathetic what I am going through at the moment What is crazy is now we do not even have to worry about birth control because wife is going through menopause, and now we just do not have any sex. I heard a guy saying he felt his relationship was bad because he only had sex 12-14 times in a year.. I have had sex 1 time in the last 15 months. Its not 100% all about sex, but I have to say I MISS the passion and intimacy !


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## Cletus

sunchild15 said:


> Its not 100% all about sex, but I have to say I MISS the passion and intimacy !


Not enough apparently to actually do something about it.


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## Diana7

sunchild15 said:


> Diana7: I think you should teach classes for wives !
> Its pathetic what I am going through at the moment What is crazy is now we do not even have to worry about birth control because wife is going through menopause, and now we just do not have any sex. I heard a guy saying he felt his relationship was bad because he only had sex 12-14 times in a year.. I have had sex 1 time in the last 15 months. Its not 100% all about sex, but I have to say I MISS the passion and intimacy !


Of course you miss it, we are supposed to have sex. Its so beneficial for the marriage. God is very wise when He says that we shouldn't deprive each other of sex. He knows the problems and temptations that occur when its not happening.


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## She'sStillGotIt

sunchild15 said:


> Diana7: I think you should teach classes for wives !
> Its pathetic what I am going through at the moment What is crazy is now we do not even have to worry about birth control because wife is going through menopause, and now we just do not have any sex. I heard a guy saying he felt his relationship was bad because he only had sex 12-14 times in a year.. I have had sex 1 time in the last 15 months. Its not 100% all about sex, but I have to say I MISS the passion and intimacy !


Here's the reality, Sunchild.

Peri-menopause and menopause really do a number on a lot of women. Not all women, but it seems that most women are affected by it in a less than positive way. Once a woman gets to this stage, for a lot of them, it's like nature tries to take away all of the feminine traits that made her so alluring during her child-bearing years when she needed to attract mates. Biology basically says, "you can't have any more kids now, so you don't _need _to attract a mate anymore. You don't NEED to have thick lustrous hair and a nice complexion, an hourglass figure and working female parts that don't hurt or feel like sandpaper when you do have sex. So I'm going to take those things away." So estrogen production is drastically decreased which in turn vastly affects the production of other hormones which result in horrific mood swings and memory loss, weight gain, reduced or no libido at all, hot flashes and sleepless nights, and the list of Hell goes on and on. And some women suddenly get up one morning and see they've grown a nice lady mustache or some lovely chin hairs or that they look like they need to be ironed because they now have crepe-type skin all over their bodies. Yippee!

Sure, the fear of pregnancy has been taken away, but the cruel joke is that nature has* also* taken her libido right along with all the other things its had a field day robbing her. Some women become sex fiends at this stage but I don't believe for one minute they're the rule. Hell, if they WERE the rule, we wouldn't constantly see posts like yours and we wouldn't always read about this issue in articles and hear it discussed on talk shows, etc. etc. 

See how biology screws most women over? :frown2:

Years ago, when women began hormone therapy to try to replace those missing hormones, they were contracting cancer or constantly living with the fear that they'd get cancer. HRT regimens were not safe at all back in the 70's and 80's. I don't know much about today's compounded hormones or their efficacy and safety but I'd like to think they're an improvement over the HRT horrors of years ago.

Do you honestly think women enjoy this hell?

Sunchild, we've had many men post here and complain that their wives *are *having sex with them but it was more like duty sex. Since she lacked that red hot passion she used to have before menopause, he knows she's doing it to please him and he WANTS to feel desired (totally understandable) and not like just another chore for her. But a woman can't give what she does not have anymore (sexual desire, passion) - she can only do the best she can with what she's got and try to make him feel desired. I don't believe women would choose to have their libidos taken but it's not a choice. 

It seems a lot of women are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If they *do* try to keep their husbands happy sexually, a lot of these guys complain that it's duty sex and they know she's only doing it for them and they don't want it. Then there are the guys like you whose wives simply don't even THINK about sex anymore and don't even try to meet their husbands halfway, so you guys aren't happy, either.

It's not her FAULT her libido has disappeared. But I do have to say that even though menopause has robbed her of _her _sex drive, she does have to realize it hasn't robbed you of yours, and she should meet you halfway. And if she does, don't come back here whining that you don't want 'duty' sex because she's not drooling with passion and tearing your clothes off every chance she gets. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

That's just life #101, Sunchild.


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## john117

The rationalization hamster just won the pole position at the Daytona Beach speedway.

There's plenty of ways to address menopause. Be in shape, stay in shape, and learn to control mood swings among other things.

You're portraying menopausal women as some kind of triple victim - hubby constantly wants sex, hormonal therapy Three Mile Island, and every symptom in the book. 

In practice, like most things, it's mind over matter. Sex three times a year is not due to hormonal imbalance or what not, it's simply not bothering to even try. 

But then, think of the gains. If she puts out, she could benefit from the experience and bonding, but WTF cares at our age. If she holds out, either he goes along and she wins, or he strays and she wins big.

I'm sorry it comes out as bitter but that's how it seems to work from what I've seen. I wish I did not have my personal experience or the experience of several close friends that corresponds well with the above to taint my view but...

It's not any better for women, incidentally. The low T, always busy, ED, or getting it on the side guy isn't any better in this aspect.

Human nature is a horrible thing to overcome.


----------



## sunchild15

"She's Still Got It",

Thanks for the time and response. That all makes sense. I know its an energy and change of life thing. Perhaps its the timing that is now unsynchronized around this situation. Listen I know that most men, if they had sex 1 time in 15 months or 3 times in 3 years would down and 
outright just not be around. I have been reading many books and have paid coaches/counselors to even help me work on ME. It comes down 
to a few things.

1) Have an understanding 
2) Boundaries of what is necessary in the relationship ( deal breakers/no exceptions) 
3) Communicating about the relationship

As you described what women go through I am not sure what is the solution at this point. I have tried talks with my wife explaining how I feel and in the past I feel that perhaps we were each coming from our own perspective on things. Some of that was me wanting to solve this so badly and part of it was her avoiding taking any responsibility and perhaps that is because energetically she is tapped out and experiencing what you mentioned. Perhaps her system can not put out any more energy so by survival it goes into avoiding and redirecting the blame/responsibility to me.

I can tell you that I have seen a drastic energy shift in my wife. Perhaps there are many things that have caused it.. Then the question is : Do you want to do ANYTHING about this? I mean I love my wife and I am there for her : perhaps I need to have more hard love with her and make things happen and then figure out what is best for me moving forward.

First when my wife was pregnant, she also had a fibroid at the same time. Since my wife was pregnant, I saw this huge decline of her even being sexual. Pre-marriage my wife was very independent and just worried mainly about herself. She moved her from India, did not have a ton of friends and is very to herself type person. She grew up here on the east coast ..but she was very much independent and just worried about herself. She said the happiest time she had was living in a small studio on her own - because she did not have much to worry about .. When she was small I think she had lots of things provided for her - almost royalty - a large family around her and lots of family support .

Once my wife became pregnant and a Mom, I feel just the energy required for her and who she is to be there constantly for a child - was very draining to her. For the first three years we had Nanny's and help because I wanted my wife to have free time and also not have to do all on her own.. When my daughter was 3-4, my wife also lost her parents so now she did not have that foundation here of support .. This was about 5 years ago and then shortly after that I decided for us to open a business. So between all of the loss and being a Mom, it seems that I have taken a backseat to all of the other things going on with her and her life ... I have always been understanding along the way .. I have not been needy - in fact I have been patient and understanding for years...

In 2013 we both started working out with trainers and over the course of 2012-2014 I made the most money I have ever made, paid off all of the bills and during that time is when her Dad passed, her Mom lived with us and her Mom Died. So there is always life going on - perhaps it was the best time financially for us and the worst time when it comes to emotions and life challenges.

In 2012 I started talking with wife around our relationship. I just wanted to see us have a better one. Work on being closer intimately and sexually. We both started going to trainers and what is great is we both got in shape. I lost about 30-40 lbs and several belt sizes and regained the energy. So for 5 years my wife did not really have to work because I was the bringing in all of the income. She worked with taking care of daughter and just paying bills and buying things. In fact we used to not cook and mostly eat out for most of that time as well in addition to hiring people to clean and help. 

When we started our own business all of that kind of shifted. We started cooking, reducing overhead and being much more reserved with spending. While we had all of the money - I must say that at that time sex was perhaps 1 time every week or 1 time every two weeks. 

So The reason I explain all of this , is obviously there has been some stress, changes and life shifts here. What I wanted to create is a passionate marriage with my wife. Its hard to be passionate when you go to give your wife a kiss in the morning and she she looks at you as if your bothering her sleep and turns over or asks "'WHAT ?" or when she gets easily irritated at how you clean the dishes in the sink..how do you be loving when someone is irritated and your working your ass off to provide.. Like I do not even complain about anything - I do what needs to get done as man.

As a "man" we are asked to do what is takes, create a plan, execute and make **** happen. Now lately I am like - WOW, when can we have a plan in our "team" "marriage" togetherness ..?? All else in life, I am just a DOER, not a talker.

Why do I share so much online here ? Because I want to vent how I feel, find some answer. 

Lately it seems that I am never allowed to be tired. I must create income, I have to make things happen. I have to create the romance, I have to lead the women...

I am not seeing any of this being the solution. Last time my wife and i had a talk which was in August. 5 Months ago. I got weird responses from her such as : Oh, Yeah.. Thats right because we are married...you have it like I am the only one that you can have sex with or that can meet your needs.. These weird responses : I do not think she means them.. I feel they are more a response to her just being exhausted and not knowing what to do..

Perhaps I should have dug deeper on this with her instead of getting so attached and wrapped to my wife being the solution or wanting a solution. Perhaps right now she has no justifiable need to be sexual . . . Perhaps she is being honest with me... Perhaps she is fine with me having sex with other women if that is what I need or want ? Perhaps she is into other women and wants that to happen for me to open possibilities for her. I honestly do not see much of a sign of any libido in her... lately its all all about work, food and sleep... and even when she sleeps 10-12 hours a night , she still seems tired and irritated.

So there is probably only a few solutions at this point: 

1) I make my wife go to nutritionalist to get blood tests/ check what is really going on...Since my wife tends to avoid this/ come up with constant excuses of how she is alright the way that she is ( even though its obvious to me and daughter that something is off ) 
2) I write a letter ( because of emotions talks do not seem to work with wife - she gets emotional ) and explain where I am and what needs to happen in order for US to work on US. If she does not want to work on "US" I can still be friends and support family but the relationship is starved of affection. She has not even invested any time in the last 3-5 years in wanting to solve this "sexless marriage" even after I have tried to speak with her on multiple occasions
3) Review the concept of the :married = I can only have sex with her - what are the options here that she is suggesting - that I get my sexual needs met elsewhere .. Is that what is committed to ?


I know many on here, will chime in from the peanut gallery. I am explaining this to you because you invested the time in a response to me. Frankly I guess if your in a relationship- I am giving ideas and options for us to have a better relationship for both me and my wife. If my wife is not interested in nourishing the relationship or keeping it alive - then she needs to know what paths are available, because me leaving her to her own devices, not wanting sex, letting her sleep ( as she is now) and leaving her be- worrying about creating my own life has not even led her to look into anything on her own..perhaps her energy is so low she does not want to even deal with any of this. Perhaps its easier to pretend like everything is ok. 2017 - we had sex 1 time.. that sounds healthy to me..

I do not want to blame her in any way, I wanted to work on this together because I feel there is a two way benefit ...
perhaps she has had it with sexuality and does not want to be sexual anymore..


----------



## john117

If you take the outsourcing approach she will know in a week or two ("he stopped pestering me, ergo...") And at that point she'll have Edward Snowden on your tail.

If I had to guess.....

1. Resentment over lifestyle changes last few years.

2. Resentment over your culture in general ("if only he was Desi")

3. Content being a taker and no benefit in being a giver

4. Culture creeping back 

And a dozen other reasons.

You can't negotiate when she holds all the cards.


----------



## oldshirt

sunchild15 said:


> "
> 
> I am not seeing any of this being the solution. Last time my wife and i had a talk which was in August. 5 Months ago. I got weird responses from her such as : Oh, Yeah.. Thats right because we are married...you have it like I am the only one that you can have sex with or that can meet your needs.. These weird responses : I do not think she means them.. I feel they are more a response to her just being exhausted and not knowing what to do..
> 
> Perhaps I should have dug deeper on this with her instead of getting so attached and wrapped to my wife being the solution or wanting a solution. Perhaps right now she has no justifiable need to be sexual . . . Perhaps she is being honest with me... Perhaps she is fine with me having sex with other women if that is what I need or want ?
> 
> 
> 3) Review the concept of the :married = I can only have sex with her - what are the options here that she is suggesting - that I get my sexual needs met elsewhere .. Is that what is committed to ?
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps she has had it with sexuality and does not want to be sexual anymore..


She'sstillgotit made a good post. 

Here's the real rub, when someone loses all their mojo and their libido and their desire for sex with their partner - they have no real motivation to get it back. You are reading books, working on yourself, going to counselors etc because you are motivated to have a sex life again. 

She sleeps all day and does nothing to recharge her libido or her desire for you because she simply does have it anymore and there for has no reason to read books, see counselors, get shots etc. 

Sure, you could pack up your stuff and hand her divorce papers and that may motivate her to see a doctor once and maybe even get some shots for a month or so, but that is just simply trying to stay out of divorce court (and that is assuming she doesn't want to divorce. Maybe she'd be cool with it)

But my point is, in order to do self-improvement, see doctors and get shots and go to counselors, you have to actually *WANT* something and be willing to do the heavy lifting to do it. 

If she doesn't want to have a sex life with you, she is not going to do all that. 

This is actually kind of simple; she has told you that she no longer wants a sex life with you and she has walked the walk and actually has stopped having a sexual relationship with you. 

There for it is in my humble opinion that she no longer has any claim over your sexuality or your sexual exclusivity and you are free to do whatever you want. 

It is also IMHO that she no longer has the right to assume a future marital relationship. Romance/sexuality are assumed components of a marital relationship and if she has forsaken that, then she has to understand the risk of divorce. 

So again, it goes back to you doing whatever you want. 

However, as she has declared that she no longer wishes a sex life you; you are obligated to respect her wishes and not pressure her, cajole her, threaten her or manipulate her into sex. This is kind of a consent issue in a way. 

You do not have a right to continue to try to have sex with her after she has stated no-interest. 

However she also has no right to require your exclusivity and she also has no right to impose involuntary celibacy on to you. 

I believe that she is sincere and means it when she says she is not the only one that take care of your needs. 

I believe this is part of her declaration of no longer wanting to have a sexual relationship with you. 

When someone truly does not want to have sex with you, they often really don't care if someone else does. Sometimes the level of nondesire runs so deep they do not believe that anyone else will want you either so they really don't even think about it. 

While on the surface it may seem like a guy would go, "WOOO HOOOO!" the truth is, that is often a pretty pill to swallow and is quite painful when you realize they truly do not care about a sex life with you at all anymore. 

You have 3 basic options here -

-suck it up and live with it and resign yourself to a life of spanking to porn. 

- seeking it elsewhere (ie open marriage, prostitution, getting a FWB or Sugar Baby, diddling your secretary , whatever)

- divorcing her and seeking another relationship(s). 

Each option has it's own set of pros and cons and it's own challenges.


----------



## oldshirt

john117 said:


> If you take the outsourcing approach she will know in a week or two ("he stopped pestering me, ergo...") And at that point she'll have Edward Snowden on your tail.
> 
> .


Maybe. Or maybe not. 

That will depend on her basic character. If she is vindictive and greedy and self-entitled, she may very well use that as fodder to hurt him and take him for whatever she can. 

If she has truly lost all attraction and desire for him and has lost her libido to menopause, she may be thankful he is off her back and won't mess with the status quo. 

Some of that will be determined by his character and how he treats her. 

Some men when they start getting it elsewhere will treat their wives like dog poop in the treads of their shoes. 

Others treat their wives like queens. 

If he takes the pressure of sex off of her and doesn't whine and pout about it any more and continues to treat her with respect and dignity, she may not want to rock the boat.


----------



## oldshirt

Responses in bold below. 



john117 said:


> The rationalization hamster just won the pole position at the Daytona Beach speedway.
> 
> *If you are referring to @she'sstillgotit post, I don't think that is hamster talk. I think she was telling a pretty frank description of the realities of menopause. *
> 
> There's plenty of ways to address menopause. Be in shape, stay in shape, and learn to control mood swings among other things.
> 
> *I agree with this to a certain extent, but as I said a couple posts above, in order for someone to do those things effectively, they have to actually want to and have motivation to do so. For a lot of people, when they lose their libido, they also lose their motivation to even have a libido. Someone is not going to be motivated to exercise and eat right and take hormonal replacements so they can meet someone else's sexual desires when they have no desire for sex themselves.*
> 
> You're portraying menopausal women as some kind of triple victim - hubby constantly wants sex, hormonal therapy Three Mile Island, and every symptom in the book.
> 
> *Yeah, that's kind of how it is. The loss of libido can lead to relationship issues which further complicates the matter and HRT like all therapies can have side effects and risks. *
> 
> In practice, like most things, it's mind over matter. Sex three times a year is not due to hormonal imbalance or what not, it's simply not bothering to even try.
> 
> *There are other issues at play to be sure. Menopause does not seal up women's vaginas. They are physically capable of having sex. But for many it does become very uncomfortable and when someone you have no innate interest in in the first place starts to hurt, that decreases the motivation even more. Then when your partner starts whining and criticizing and making it a point of contention, then it just pours a big ol' bucket of gas on it. *
> 
> But then, think of the gains. If she puts out, she could benefit from the experience and bonding, but WTF cares at our age.
> 
> *There is much truth here. But this is where having a sound relationship and mutual respect, love and compassion comes into play. If there is a good foundation of mutual love and compassion, then the couple can communicate and come up with accommidations for each person so that each meet their needs for closeness and bonding and pleasure etc*
> 
> If she holds out, either he goes along and she wins, or he strays and she wins big.
> 
> *As I said in the post above, this will come down to character. If someone wants to "win" at the expense of the other "losing" then there is trouble on the horizon regardless of the situation. If your spouse is vindictive and self-entitled and willing to exploit you for their own gain, it's best just to get out anyway. *
> 
> 
> I'm sorry it comes out as bitter but that's how it seems to work from what I've seen. I wish I did not have my personal experience or the experience of several close friends that corresponds well with the above to taint my view but...
> 
> It's not any better for women, incidentally. The low T, always busy, ED, or getting it on the side guy isn't any better in this aspect.
> 
> Human nature is a horrible thing to overcome.


----------



## sunchild15

All of what you are saying makes sense..it seems as there are many things going on...in my opinion and this is me guessing my wife seems to love me..and attracted to me being around.

Last night I crawled into bed and my wife asked why I was so far away from her...all the way in the other side of the bed.. it seems she likes having me next to her ..doing things with me and talking about everything in life ...

We had great sex in November and she gave me a massage in December which both were refreshing ...yet ..

On some weird level ..I feel the abnormal has becomes the normal or the rut....it's like when someone is sick and their system doesn't have enough energy ..they can't see clearly themselves because the only thing they are thinking about is trying to survive. Get sleep food and water ...I almost feel as if she does want a great relationship but she has no energy left except for to take care of herself ...and do a certain amount of activity ..

She mentioned to me that she feel her dad died because he gave so much energy he didn't have any more to give so she said she wanted to make sure she put out just enough so she doesn't do the same ...

I don't know...I guess I can have a conversation and say..I don't want to force her to change...the thing that often comes about with her is that all I think about is sex...and I do believe it's a healthy part of a relationship..

As you can see just going in circles.trying to discuss this with her like normal communication for a solution also leads no where ..

Maybe I do need to schedule her appointment with no warning except once we arrive saying this is for her and the family that we find out what the issues that years have passed and it's concerning...


----------



## john117

oldshirt said:


> Maybe. Or maybe not.
> 
> That will depend on her basic character. If she is vindictive and greedy and self-entitled, she may very well use that as fodder to hurt him and take him for whatever she can.
> 
> If she has truly lost all attraction and desire for him and has lost her libido to menopause, she may be thankful he is off her back and won't mess with the status quo.
> 
> Some of that will be determined by his character and how he treats her.
> 
> Some men when they start getting it elsewhere will treat their wives like dog poop in the treads of their shoes.
> 
> Others treat their wives like queens.
> 
> If he takes the pressure of sex off of her and doesn't whine and pout about it any more and continues to treat her with respect and dignity, she may not want to rock the boat.


The end result isn't much different tho. 

If I had to guess she'd take the vindictive route.


----------



## oldshirt

sunchild15 said:


> All of what you are saying makes sense..it seems as there are many things going on...in my opinion and this is me guessing my wife seems to love me..and attracted to me being around.
> 
> Last night I crawled into bed and my wife asked why I was so far away from her...all the way in the other side of the bed.. it seems she likes having me next to her ..doing things with me and talking about everything in life ...
> 
> We had great sex in November and she gave me a massage in December which both were refreshing ...yet ..
> 
> On some weird level ..I feel the abnormal has becomes the normal or the rut....it's like when someone is sick and their system doesn't have enough energy ..they can't see clearly themselves because the only thing they are thinking about is trying to survive. Get sleep food and water ...I almost feel as if she does want a great relationship but she has no energy left except for to take care of herself ...and do a certain amount of activity ..
> 
> She mentioned to me that she feel her dad died because he gave so much energy he didn't have any more to give so she said she wanted to make sure she put out just enough so she doesn't do the same ...
> 
> I don't know...I guess I can have a conversation and say..I don't want to force her to change...the thing that often comes about with her is that all I think about is sex...and I do believe it's a healthy part of a relationship..
> 
> As you can see just going in circles.trying to discuss this with her like normal communication for a solution also leads no where ..
> 
> Maybe I do need to schedule her appointment with no warning except once we arrive saying this is for her and the family that we find out what the issues that years have passed and it's concerning...[/QUOT
> 
> There's a reason menopausal women fill the house with cats or little, yippy, ankle biting dogs and that is because they still have a need for companionship and attention and cuddles. They just don't like men getting all horny and trying to stick things into their died up hoo hahs any more.
> 
> She may still love you and enjoy your company and people still want affection and touch. That never ends.
> 
> Sometimes they may even want an orgasm now and then.
> 
> What ends is the raw, passionate yearning for sex and the "need" for sex.
> 
> The problem is we men still have that raw, passionate yearning and we have a deep need for someone to feel that passion and 'need' for us.
> 
> Our forefathers have always delt with this in a number of ways.
> 
> Some simply discard their wives once they're dried up and take a younger replacement(s) until they themselves get so old and shriveled up and can't get it up anymore.
> 
> The ones that don't have it in their heart to discard their wives, keep them around and continue to feed and take care of them like a good ol' workhorse that served the farm well over the years, but then either have some kind of long term FWB or sugar babies or actual prostitutes if they can afford it.
> 
> And many simply roll over and get fat and sit and drink beer and eat chips on the couch and spank to porn and get bitter and resentful.
> 
> From your descriptions, I do not think your wife dislikes you or doesn't want to around you. I think she has just lost all sexual desire for you and no longer wishes a consistent and regular sex life with you.
> 
> I agree, that makes it a little more complex in deciding what to do. If she hated you and didn't want anything to do with you, it would be pretty cut and dried to just divorce and move on.
> 
> But since it sounds like she does want some kind of domestic relationship and companionship, it does make it a little harder to decide what is best.
> 
> I think many of the posters here have suggested making a statement that you still need some sexual activity in your life in order to maintain health, sanity and personal happiness and that you realize she no longer has those feelings for you or wishes that kind of activity with you.
> 
> Then ask for her input on what she would like to occur. Don't ask for permission or for her to present the solution or "answer" but rather ask for her input and opinion.
> 
> If she says to suck it up and live with it - you can decide whether that is acceptable to you or not.
> 
> If she says to get those needs met elsewhere - take it as her word and believe her. then you can decide if that will work for you or not.
> 
> If she says she doesn't want to deal with it and that you are free to go - then you can again decide if that would be best for you.
> 
> The caveat though is if she says she'll "try harder," that she will have to show some real world behaviors such going to doctors and counselors and actually evaluating her health and physical status and actually doing something about it.
> 
> As I said above - in the end it is your choice since you are the dissatisfied party here. It would be good of you to get her input, but in the end the choice and decision will be yours.


----------



## john117

You need to answer "what's in it for me" when she's the one that's doing the thinking.

Simple stuff actually. Why would she have sex? What's in it for her? It's the standard human risk reward analysis I used to teach. Answer that and you're done. One way or another.

Also, I hope she's under the general care of a qualified medical professional, not some sketchy alternative practitioner....


----------



## sunchild15

No normal doctor..what's funny is she went to a doctor for blood tests as physical doctor said all normal..I don't feel doctors these days do those tests I need unless specialists ...also perhaps she did not share what was happening from an honest perspective...that's why I was leaning towards a nutritionist who has experience with thyroid and reading blood tests . Do u know how many traditional doctors miss the route causes and say oh it's normal to find nothing ...


----------



## john117

The very expensive doctor my wife just saw pretty much said "darn if I know" as well ...


----------



## MJJEAN

sunchild15 said:


> No normal doctor..what's funny is she went to a doctor for blood tests as physical doctor said all normal..I don't feel doctors these days do those tests I need unless specialists ...also perhaps she did not share what was happening from an honest perspective...that's why I was leaning towards a nutritionist who has experience with thyroid and reading blood tests . Do u know how many traditional doctors miss the route causes and say oh it's normal to find nothing ...


You do understand loss of libido and lower energy levels are normal for menopausal women, right? It really does seem her lack of interest is related to the lower hormone levels caused by menopause and that is simply a life stage thing.


----------



## john117

The rationalization hamster just lapped Danica Patrick...

Mind over matter... There's plenty of menopause or post menopause women that have active, healthy sex lives. And then there are some people that look for an excuse or three.


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## Livvie

50 and menopausal is not the end of passionate, active participation in life. Those who want to can have some of their most productive years now. 

Kids are older/more self sufficient- more time to focus on your relationship/ partner and career. No more days off of work due to sick kids or sleepless nights up with little ones. Your vacation time can actually be used for vacation! More time for date nights without the hassle of babysitters. More head space and energy generally for your partner once your kids are in school full-time and becoming functioning people of their own.

You are older, wiser, more experienced and more secure in life and yourself. You know what you want in life and have the experience to go after it. 

No more pregnancy! 

Everybody encounters medical and aging issues. Some people address them and continue to be an ever growing excellent partner. Others, not so much.

Your wife is in the not so much category. She says it herself, she wants to keep her energy for herself and not give it to the relationship. Hmm but she still enjoys the benefits and security of it, right???

Not every woman " dries up" at 50 and menopause. Some embrace their new phase of life and make sure they address medical and hormonal issues so they can do so.

And as I've said before. .. you can bet your ass if she were suddenly single and wanted another relationship, she'd be relating to her new prospects completely differently than she is you.


----------



## john117

Yea, energy to spend 3 hours a day on the treadmill or yardwork but no energy to have a cup of coffee with her partner... Let alone a date night.

To be blunt, I'd rather be told up front. "Hey, bozo, I'm 58. I getting my jollies fulfilled by watching Jane Austen and gardening. No time to feck around".

Again, I'm not generalizing for everyone. My first ever job dealt with the physiological impact of hormone level variations. But it's a great carte blanche these days...


----------



## Livvie

john117 said:


> Yea, energy to spend 3 hours a day on the treadmill or yardwork but no energy to have a cup of coffee with her partner... Let alone a date night.
> 
> To be blunt, I'd rather be told up front. "Hey, bozo, I'm 58. I getting my jollies fulfilled by watching Jane Austen and gardening. No time to feck around".
> 
> Again, I'm not generalizing for everyone. My first ever job dealt with the physiological impact of hormone level variations. But it's a great carte blanche these days...


Yeah, that's bull****. If a woman, or a man, men can check out of relationships, too--decided all they want now is to garden cook watch movies or whatever--and that they aren't into putting energy into maintaining a vibrant mutual relationship with their partner, then why do they think they can continue to stay in that relationship and reap the benefits of partnered life?

If your hormones are causing issues, address it. Men have testosterone replacement therapy, nutritional and exercise therapy, and ED meds available to them. Females have many bioidentical hormone replacement options, herbs, oils, and nutritional and exercise therapy available to them.

Everybody ages and everybody's hormones change with age. It's not an excuse.


----------



## oldshirt

sunchild15 said:


> Maybe I do need to schedule her appointment with no warning except once we arrive saying this is for her and the family that we find out what the issues that years have passed and it's concerning...


I forgot to mention earlier - I think this is a really bad idea. 

Noone responds positively to a surprise trip to a doctor or counselor. 

Let's flip the roles a little bit; how would you react if she told you that she was going to take you golfing (or whatever else it is you like to do) and instead she pulls up to a doctor's office and says that you are going to see the doctor for your horniness problem and see what kind of injections and medication they can put you on that will make you less horny all the time. 

How would you like that and would that make you act in a positive manner?

Remember she does not feel sexual and does not want to have a sex life (otherwise she would have sex) so to her, she does not need treatment to want something that she does not want. 

For you to pull a fast one on her and make her go somewhere for "help" for something she does not feel the need for help with, it will go badly.


----------



## sunchild15

I would not do a surprise visit..I would talk to her ..however I have seen people before that lack judgement or the right perspective...based on a view from their own glasses vs what people see looking in...most of the times people who are depressed don't admit they are depressed and some people feel their fine...all their lives ...I guess someone has to want to see another perspective.


----------



## PatJourno

Sex is about intimacy IMO. This is an intimacy issue. What is hindering the intimacy in the relationship?



Diana7 said:


> The thing is with sex that even if we don't 'feel' like it , we can still make that decision to have sex because we love our spouse. We do it for them. We enjoy it because they are enjoying it, and guess what, we then even enjoy it ourselves. So having low libido shouldn't make any difference.
> 
> I think that you need to make it very clear to her in a calm way, how vitally important sex is for you and that this present situation is affecting you very deeply and cant go on. That you want to remain faithful, and only want to have sex with her, but that being deprived of sex means that the temptations are very strong.
> 
> You are giving and giving, but she is just taking it seems. Sex in marriage is very important for maintaining that emotional closeness as well, and is a great stress reliever.
> 
> God is very wise, and He tell us not to deprive the other of sex for good reason. She doesn't have to 'feel' like it to do it.


----------



## Livvie

Sunchild I just read over in another thread that your wife isn't even working!!

Sex one time in 15 months was all she had the energy for, and she does not even work? And she's 50 and there are no small children.

She's got quite the set-up in life. She does exactly as she wants and has someone (you) providing everything in life to her. Amazing!!!!!!


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## sunchild15

I don't know what's hindering the intimacy...last night I was getting romantic with wife...she asked me what I was doing ...my answer was that I am turned on...she then said is there a switch in this bed that as soon as your in it your sexual switch gets turned on...my answer was ...no there is a switch in you that turns me on when I am with you ...she didn't answer and turned over and went to sleep..

She always has these reasons she creates why I act differently in bedroom then outside of bedroom...

I don't get it ..that's what she says ..I'm two personalities...I think she seems to be looking for excuses.

Yesterday she slept from 10 pm to almost 12 pm...she ate her first bit of granola at 1230..pm..she had 2 meals and a coffee yesterday .

I kiss her during the day while not in bedroom I gave her kisses when she's not in bedroom or cooking ..

I sat with her yesterday watched TV..played frisbee at the beach and got a coffee with her ...

I think perhaps she's trying to say that I'm only sexual and a certain way in bed..I think it's kind of a bull**** excuse again...Its crazy to me because I feel she is observing me ...finding excuses and coming up with stuff to stay disconnected intimately.

She doesn't say good morning when she comes out of bedroom..she comes out and goes about her routine ...I am the Only one that initiates affection in and out of the bedroom ...perhaps she is so busy judging what I do out of the bedroom that in the bedroom things seem different ...it's not because of it being different .. she isn't contributing to the energy of affection if she is just watching me....

Many times she is observing how I am behaving in the bedroom as kind of a way for her to get herself out of participation....it's more like she is watching instead of doing ..

I'm am always kissing her and giving her hugs ..it's never the other way around ....she likes me hugging her but then she seems to create excuses for not doing anything else ...

I guess for her purpose maybe I should try everything out of the bedroom ..it seems when she comes into bed her opinion is that is the only time I want to be sexual...perhaps it's just another excuse ..

I mean our daughter is around all day and her brother over the holidays ...hmm...maybe I should purposely initiate in the living room ..and kitchen during the day ....what's she's saying doesn't seem to make sense ...and again..instead of her participation..perhaps I need to share that she seems checked out of this idea she has about me .. most of the time ...


Do I really need to explain all the times I kiss her and hug her and spend time with her outside if the bedroom...should I point out that she is looking at me and judging me ...but she does not participate and that she is not even aware of what she is doing because she's so busy looking at my actions ...

This is kind if crazy....maybe she is tired and if she judges me and finds reasons not to connect ..she's can be off the hook..I don't think she even sees all of the picture here ...maybe it's just a way to avoid participation because she just doesn't have the energy ...

Perhaps I should ask what the ideal situation is for her to feel ready and open to intimacy ...because this is super confusing ....I mean we sit together ..walk the beach ..play Frisbee ..get coffee ..joke ...watch TV ...and then when daughter finally goes to bed... I lay with her and her response is why does this sexual switch come on in bed ...what about all the stuff we did together during the day ?


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## john117

There's no switch. There's no wiring either, and no electricity. You're trying to reanimate a "corpse".

You can see your one sided affection isn't working. Stop wasting your time with her and live the way you want.


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## Andy1001

sunchild15 said:


> I don't know what's hindering the intimacy...last night I was getting romantic with wife...she asked me what I was doing ...my answer was that I am turned on...she then said is there a switch in this bed that as soon as your in it your sexual switch gets turned on...my answer was ...no there is a switch in you that turns me on when I am with you ...she didn't answer and turned over and went to sleep..
> 
> She always has these reasons she creates why I act differently in bedroom then outside of bedroom...
> 
> I don't get it ..that's what she says ..I'm two personalities...I think she seems to be looking for excuses.
> 
> Yesterday she slept from 10 pm to almost 12 pm...she ate her first bit of granola at 1230..pm..she had 2 meals and a coffee yesterday .
> 
> I kiss her during the day while not in bedroom I gave her kisses when she's not in bedroom or cooking ..
> 
> I sat with her yesterday watched TV..played frisbee at the beach and got a coffee with her ...
> 
> I think perhaps she's trying to say that I'm only sexual and a certain way in bed..I think it's kind of a bull**** excuse again...Its crazy to me because I feel she is observing me ...finding excuses and coming up with stuff to stay disconnected intimately.
> 
> She doesn't say good morning when she comes out of bedroom..she comes out and goes about her routine ...I am the Only one that initiates affection in and out of the bedroom ...perhaps she is so busy judging what I do out of the bedroom that in the bedroom things seem different ...it's not because of it being different .. she isn't contributing to the energy of affection if she is just watching me....
> 
> Many times she is observing how I am behaving in the bedroom as kind of a way for her to get herself out of participation....it's more like she is watching instead of doing ..
> 
> I'm am always kissing her and giving her hugs ..it's never the other way around ....she likes me hugging her but then she seems to create excuses for not doing anything else ...
> 
> I guess for her purpose maybe I should try everything out of the bedroom ..it seems when she comes into bed her opinion is that is the only time I want to be sexual...perhaps it's just another excuse ..
> 
> I mean our daughter is around all day and her brother over the holidays ...hmm...maybe I should purposely initiate in the living room ..and kitchen during the day ....what's she's saying doesn't seem to make sense ...and again..instead of her participation..perhaps I need to share that she seems checked out of this idea she has about me .. most of the time ...
> 
> 
> Do I really need to explain all the times I kiss her and hug her and spend time with her outside if the bedroom...should I point out that she is looking at me and judging me ...but she does not participate and that she is not even aware of what she is doing because she's so busy looking at my actions ...
> 
> This is kind if crazy....maybe she is tired and if she judges me and finds reasons not to connect ..she's can be off the hook..I don't think she even sees all of the picture here ...maybe it's just a way to avoid participation because she just doesn't have the energy ...
> 
> Perhaps I should ask what the ideal situation is for her to feel ready and open to intimacy ...because this is super confusing ....I mean we sit together ..walk the beach ..play Frisbee ..get coffee ..joke ...watch TV ...and then when daughter finally goes to bed... I lay with her and her response is why does this sexual switch come on in bed ...what about all the stuff we did together during the day ?


Buddy,after reading this entire thread I mean this from the bottom of my heart.
Get a ****in life!


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## Livvie

This is no way to live. Stay with her long enough and she is going to warp you mentally and emotionally.


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## sunchild15

Livvie said:


> This is no way to live. Stay with her long enough and she is going to warp you mentally and emotionally.



Here is what it comes down to. I guess I need BIGGER things going on in my life. If I had momentum in other things perhaps this would not impact me as much. If I had a ton of money coming in and great things going on that took my attention perhaps this would not seem so important and such a huge distraction. 

Perhaps I seem to have a massive urgency because its now 2018 and I feel I have been dealing with this since 2012. Perhaps I am just frustrated looking at everything, the holidays and this stagnant RUT that my relationship has been in.

No matter, what I do whether I figure this out or not. I guess I should be more focused on what kind of a LIFE I am creating in order to have what makes me happy and be prepared for anything . Perhaps I am looking to solve all of this NOW . Because its pissing me off that I have even tolerated this.. It makes me feel bad that I have not made much progress after all of this time. its got me hooked..


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## Andy1001

When are you going to realize that your wife is not interested in having sex with you. 
You get one shot at life,don’t waste it on someone who doesn’t give a damn about your happiness.


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## sunchild15

Andy. That make's sense. Perhaps I am in some kind of crazy mindset because the rest of our relationship seems great - as long as I do not bring up sex. I can hug her, kiss her and be there for her .. As long as I do not do anything else. It BAFFLES my mind. She needs me to be there for her all of the time to do things and emotional support ....I guess I can keep kidding myself. At this point I guess I have a lot to think about here with a daughter and my life .. I also have to be prepared for it all since she does not really have much income. If we do choose to go separate ways if she does not want to work on this.. There are several things to be prepared for .. It sucks, it seems obvious to me, and she is just going about her days as usual keeping busy with stuff as she usually does .. I wish things were different and perhaps that is what I keep hoping to see . Something different :-(


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## Livvie

sunchild15 said:


> Andy. That make's sense. Perhaps I am in some kind of crazy mindset because the rest of our relationship seems great - as long as I do not bring up sex. I can hug her, kiss her and be there for her .. As long as I do not do anything else. It BAFFLES my mind. She needs me to be there for her all of the time to do things and emotional support ....I guess I can keep kidding myself. At this point I guess I have a lot to think about here with a daughter and my life .. I also have to be prepared for it all since she does not really have much income. If we do choose to go separate ways if she does not want to work on this.. There are several things to be prepared for .. It sucks, it seems obvious to me, and she is just going about her days as usual keeping busy with stuff as she usually does .. I wish things were different and perhaps that is what I keep hoping to see . Something different :-(


Look at what you wrote. You said you hug her, you kiss her, you are there for her, you support her emotionally, you are there to do things with her, and you support her financially. How does this baffle you? You give her everything she needs and wants. Her, her, her. Who doesn't want that kind of attention and support??

What she doesn't do is give it back. You exist to support her but it is not a mutual TWO WAY marriage.


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## john117

Read the thread I just started a few days ago, granted, my girls are in their 20s, but the process of being single is not too difficult. Will you immediately find a new soulmate? FWB? Sugar momma ? Doesn't matter.


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## oldshirt

sunchild15 said:


> Andy. That make's sense. Perhaps I am in some kind of crazy mindset because the rest of our relationship seems great - as long as I do not bring up sex. I can hug her, kiss her and be there for her .. As long as I do not do anything else. It BAFFLES my mind. She needs me to be there for her all of the time to do things and emotional support ....I guess I can keep kidding myself. At this point I guess I have a lot to think about here with a daughter and my life .. I also have to be prepared for it all since she does not really have much income. (



This is called "The Friendzone." Look it up and learn all about it because this is where you are. 

You are a girlfriend that gives her nurturing and support and ego strokes and tells her she's great, but it an asexual relationship..... Ie you are a friend.

Is there any reason to believe that you could not remain friends and effective coparents if you were to divorce and move on with your life.

You could still change her oil and fix her flat tires and come over to her house and kill spiders if you wanted, so you could still remain friends and could still parent together. 

That is essentially what you are now.

- the difference is when you divorce, you could have romantic/sexual relationships with other people. 

I would make her get a self supporting job first though to cut down on your spousal support.


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## WilliamM

I have been reading this from time to time.

I think sex is vital and necessary for a marriage to survive. You obviously do not, because you accept that your wife turns you down and refuses you, and you are still married.

When I took my wife out on our first date I told her I think a relationship or marriage is like a three legged stool. If any one of the legs fails it is broken and done.

I told her on the way out, which turned out to be to my place for some fun, the three legs as far as I am concerned are staying clean of hard drugs, not hurting the children, and endless great sex. We have had our share of problems to be sure, but those three legs have held strong.

Obviously you don't really care one way or another about sex, though, since you accept that she denies you. She could find a way to enjoy it, she just does not care about you at all.


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## john117

William, there's also the money leg, without money a marriage can't survive regardless of anything else.


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## alte Dame

Here is some advice from a woman who has been with her H for 38 years, married for close to 35:

- I had early cervical cancer in my late twenties, had two dangerously premature babies as a result of the surgery that was performed to deal with that. When I was physically able, my H and I resumed our sex life.

- I had the perimenopause and menopause from hell: 10 years until finally heading into 'the change' at age 60, after which I had surgery for breast cancer (perhaps resulting from the 10 years of HRT? Who can really say?) When I was physically able, my H and I resumed our sex life.

It wasn't a hardship for me, ever, because it was always important for me to maintain our intimacy. It wasn't always what I was in the mood for, but I managed it anyway. 

For me, this was ALWAYS not just a matter of sex and marriage and intimacy. It has always also been a matter of respect and dignity. If I stick my neck out and initiate sex and am turned down, well that is a hit to my sense of self-worth and dignity. Why would I do that to the person I love?

Also, I don't think a spouse should just be able to unilaterally change the marriage contract because he/she feels like it. That's a very serious bait and switch.

It has never been a critical problem for me to say 'yes' to my H. It is an expression of love and commitment. What your W perhaps doesn't realize is that if she made an effort to love you in a sexual way, it might actually be the self-fulfilling prophecy that she needs, i.e., it will lead to her actually desiring sex again.

Just my .02, but I think you have a right to expect and actually require a sex life with your spouse as long as she is not physically incapacitated. (And I've been there and done that with menopausal symptoms, and 'no,' they don't qualify for me as physically incapacitating, including the hormonal mood swings - with the mood swings, I was actually surprised that my H wanted the harridan that I was at the time...)

So, my advice is to expect it if it's important to you, and to lay your cards on the table. If she simply wants the life you now have and sees no reason to even try, then you can separate/divorce and continue with your very valuable life that you shouldn't be squandering with 'it's the best I can hope for,' if you can help it.


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## Prodigal

sunchild15 said:


> I guess I need BIGGER things going on in my life. If I had momentum in other things perhaps this would not impact me as much. If I had a ton of money coming in and great things going on that took my attention perhaps this would not seem so important and such a huge distraction.


We have no control over what other people choose to do. However, we DO have control over our own thoughts, actions, and boundaries. You choose to obsess/focus on your wife's disinterest in sex because you choose to. You hang onto the crumbs she tosses your way because you choose to. You keep attempting to initiate sex with someone who doesn't respect you (at least I deduct that from what you have posted) because you choose to.

Maybe if you would strap on a pair and lay it on the line to her that you won't tolerate a sexless marriage, you might quit running in circles and getting nowhere. As one poster said, you need to get a life. Seriously.


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## ConanHub

@sunchild15

Read "What Do Women Want" by Daniel Bergner.

It has some good insights.

You have to be the type of man that won't be denied.

I will always have sex. I will never be denied because it is who I am.

No gimmicks or tricks. I have always been honest with myself and my wife. She knows I will have sex with her or without her.

She knows I am good in bed and out and that I can score with a lot of other women if I chose to.

I am also faithful and monogamous so she knows if I'm not having sex with her, we will be separated and soon divorced while I drive another woman into a puddle of post orgasmic bliss.

Are you in good shape? How about her?


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## john117

Conan, there's a few flies in the ointment above.

1. The frigid partner is in a not so divorce friendly state, and extrication could become a substantial effort. I'm sure you have seen the stories here. 

2. The ultimatum way of improving one's sex life will not always work - a high earning frigid spouse or a stay at home spouse with the family court system watching their back isn't the easily intimidated type...

3. Some people lack what this not so famous psychologist has coined "self preservation neurons". Meaning, they'd rather see the marriage fail and collect the loot than resolve the issue.

As long as our society rewards frigidity it's not going to improve.


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## WilliamM

I just can't get over how the OP continues to grovel.

Why tolerate her refusals? Tell her you are packing, and you will have the house put up for sale the next day. You don't care where she goes to live, but you and your daughter are going to go live somewhere you can afford on your own, without your wife, soon to be ex wife.

You spend years trying to get her to change. You cannot achieve that. As was pointed out by several women who responded, your wife is not into you.

Accept it, and move on.


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## WilliamM

Money is not one of the important things in life, to me. I never spoke with my wife about money. I seldom speak to her about money.

It is very easy to make enough to live on. Anybody can do that.

Satisfying avarice is another matter altogether, though. Avarice.


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## ConanHub

john117 said:


> Conan, there's a few flies in the ointment above.
> 
> 1. The frigid partner is in a not so divorce friendly state, and extrication could become a substantial effort. I'm sure you have seen the stories here.
> 
> 2. The ultimatum way of improving one's sex life will not always work - a high earning frigid spouse or a stay at home spouse with the family court system watching their back isn't the easily intimidated type...
> 
> 3. Some people lack what this not so famous psychologist has coined "self preservation neurons". Meaning, they'd rather see the marriage fail and collect the loot than resolve the issue.
> 
> As long as our society rewards frigidity it's not going to improve.


I'm well aware. I simply won't be denied. Life is more of a two way street than anything else. Mrs. C was going through "whatever" at a point where I would have been living in a box with a fan if I was fortunate should we divorce.

She would have received hefty alimony, child support and at least half our resources.

I am worth a lot more than stuff ever will be and if she ever thinks otherwise then she can have all the stuff but not me in anyway after.

There are too many good women in need of a real relationship to settle for a living death.

You can always make more money, you only have so long to live and love.


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## john117

Life's not quite this simple. Try looking your kid in the eyes and tell her there's no money for college because Mom is not putting out, we're divorcing, and she gets the college fund money, not State U.

We can make life simple if we make lots of assumptions and the like. Not sure it works quite the same way. I'm glad some people can simplify things.


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## WilliamM

john117 said:


> Life's not quite this simple. Try looking your kid in the eyes and tell her there's no money for college because Mom is not putting out, we're divorcing, and she gets the college fund money, not State U.
> 
> We can make life simple if we make lots of assumptions and the like. Not sure it works quite the same way. I'm glad some people can simplify things.


That would be easy for me to do.

Any child should be able to attend any college with scholarships, anyway. If not, oh well. 

And if the mother won't kick in for the college fund from the money she gets, then the mother also needs to look the child in the eye. It is not all on me. I do not accept that.

I would never, not for one day accept living with someone I am not compatible with just for the sake of saving money. There is always a need for more money, and there is always a way to get by with less money. I will not sell my happiness for a college fund.

I did not have a college fund, and I have succeeded, wildly. I made a fortune in the Silicon Valley, and lost it all. After the market crash in 2002 we sold the house in San Jose and lived in the car for a year. Now we are very well off again. Making money is easy. 

My oldest brother did not have a college fund, and he is rich, again, after loosing everything in a divorce.

Only a fool would sacrifice his happiness for the sake of dollars. There is no misery so complete as a life wasted choosing to be unhappy just to make a buck.

I will grant, the world is full of fools.


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## john117

The world is full of people who think the past is a good indication of the future. I'm not sure I would call them fools, tho.

Most marriage failures don't simply happen. They simmer and eventually boil over. 

The op problem is his singular focus on pretending he has a marriage. Once you accept the fallacy of this, you can move forward.


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## alte Dame

Here's the thing, all you wonderful TAM men - I actually have A LOT of women friends who themselves have sexless marriages by their husbands' choices. I don't spend my time with my friends detailing my sex life, but they know that I have always had an active one because they asked me and I told them the truth. They are envious of me and tell me often.

Sex isn't the only thing in a marriage, for sure, but it's important for both men and women. It's not just an issue for men. There are a lot of unhappy women in sexless marriages. They stay in them for the same reasons OP does - loving someone in spite of it and just living with what has to be 'good enough.'

It's always hard to say what you would do in a situation, but I don't think I would stay. Don't think I would.


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## ConanHub

john117 said:


> Life's not quite this simple. Try looking your kid in the eyes and tell her there's no money for college because Mom is not putting out, we're divorcing, and she gets the college fund money, not State U.
> 
> We can make life simple if we make lots of assumptions and the like. Not sure it works quite the same way. I'm glad some people can simplify things.


Different priorities and views on martyrdom.

I don't believe being martyred on the alter of a dried up woman's selfish heart is ever going to be my calling.

My children's mother would be bearing the brunt of the responsibility. Barring extreme physical infirmity, inoperable or otherwise unable to treat, my wife will have sex with me or she will make the decision to end our marriage. Her decision. I will never be sexless barring incapacity.

Now, other men are obviously of a different cut.

While they are frustrated by a sexless existence, they complain but cope because they perceive it to be the best course.

I have been exposed to conflict from a very young age and do not fear it or the aftermath.

I know the cost of war in any arena and that is probably a foundational difference.

It also might be insane but I have found women warm to my no nonsense approach with my wife chief among them.

I don't believe I'm wrong but I think women lose something vital when they see fear impact their men at the wrong moments.


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## john117

Well, it's the availability heuristic at play... If it works for me it ought to work for everyone. Sometimes it works. 

My wife's moving out next Monday. I'm not really elated or creating a dating profile quite yet. I mean, we both know that this is the beginning of the end. I'll help her get settled and after that it's curtains. I got bigger fish to fry. She does too. 

To our defense we got 25 good years and ran into insurmountable odds to making it to 35. Not a bad outcome for a pair from strange countries on student visas. Sunchild should wake up to the realization that sex isn't the problem. It's the indication.


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## ConanHub

john117 said:


> Well, it's the availability heuristic at play... If it works for me it ought to work for everyone. Sometimes it works.
> 
> My wife's moving out next Monday. I'm not really elated or creating a dating profile quite yet. I mean, we both know that this is the beginning of the end. I'll help her get settled and after that it's curtains. I got bigger fish to fry. She does too.
> 
> To our defense we got 25 good years and ran into insurmountable odds to making it to 35. Not a bad outcome for a pair from strange countries on student visas. Sunchild should wake up to the realization that sex isn't the problem. It's the indication.


It works for me and men in sexless marriages ask questions on forums about how to change their situation.

My marriage has almost gone the same way as many but I did not allow it.

Why ask if you already are resigned to failure?

I get laid when I want and it took great effort and work.

I will share information when asked. My attitude and methods actually work for anyone. I am far from rare.

A major problem with implementation though is that men already in sexless marriages have allowed their wives to disrespect them for to long and a pattern will need to be broken in her as well as him.

Women and men are not radically different around the world.

Fairly healthy woman can, and will, have sex on demand if they believe the situation warrants it.
@sunchild15 has a wife that does not believe her situation warrants sex.

He needs to change his submissive nature and her perception regarding the need for sex.

Again, OP. Are you in good shape? Is your wife?


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## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> . My attitude and methods actually work for anyone. I am far from rare.


Those attitudes and methods may work for about any man to escape a sexless marriage and eventually have a sex life.

It will not however make any one specific woman want to have sex with you or desire you organically.

Some will just say, " OK, good bye." And others will just say no. 

Your methods may work, but someone with a rip-roaring case of oneitis (like the OP) or someone with strong religious beliefs on "till death do us part" will be paralized with inaction when faced with this vs sexless marriage.

It's rarely ever our actual circumstances that have us over barrel, but more often it is our own beliefs and perspectives that hamstring us.

If you believe your partner is a special snowflake and your one and only chance at love and you have a strong religious or personal belief against divorce; you will screw yourself. 

Some times people have to realize that if twy want a sex life, it simply will not be with their current partner.

If their own beliefs and perspectives won't let them move on, then they are simply stuck.

"Till death do us part" has probably condemed more men and women to loveless, abusive and lifeless marriages than any other concept.


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## ConanHub

I agree @oldshirt

I am also devoted to marriage and solidly Christian but will not put up with a farce of a marriage.

God made a damn good thing, as far as I'm concerned, with sex and I will be pickled if I would intentionally dishonor such a great gift by ignoring it!😉

I think women need to bale out as well if the husband won't plow her fields.

What a waste!


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## john117

What kept me in the relationship for a decade longer than expected was mostly my own "I'm a psychologist, I know what I'm doing" aspect and a fvcked up legal system in my state that only awards custody to the father if the mother is Susan Smith, as my lawyer put it. No regrets. 

To be blunt, and with apologies to Rust Belt women, I could be cheating on the side and nobody would know. Yet my circle has very few unattached women, and those that are, are for a reason or ten. Maybe my requirements are too high. I managed to find one person who meets most requirements but physically ummmm. She's currently a work in progress, let's just say. But she has a Maine **** so...

At the end of the day, sex is not the issue. I had plenty for the first 25 years. I can spend summers in my birth country and have wild sex with women who would jump at a chance to come to America. That's not it. It's the future thing especially at my age. And the realization that we could actually make it work. 

What men my age want is peace of mind. You're probably younger and I can't fault you for letting your physical needs supercede long term reality. 

At 50, when things started to really go bad, I thought I could fix things.

At 54 I realized it wasn't fixable and all. I wanted was to get even.

At 58 all I want is peace of mind. Got that beginning Jan 2. 

The rest can wait. I'm getting a case of this from Costco for my first week alone


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## sunchild15

ConanHub,

I am in great shape. I ran a half marathon last month (13.1 miles) in about 2 hours. I have worked out with a trainer 2-3 times per week lifting over the the last 4 years. I do yoga as well and other activities. I probably am around 11-12% bodyfat around 190lbs..Muscular. Diet, super healthy - all organic/ no processed foods, no dairy, all plant based vegan. 4 months ago was pescatarian for the last 4 years.

My wife is in shape, she has a trainer and works out about 3 times per week. Very healthy diet as well.

I am open to your suggestions if you have them.

Over the last few days I have started re-reading No More Mr Nice Guy. I also started re-reading "Passionate Marriage", and several other books that I looked at before. 

I think the main reason I got so amped over the last week is 2017 is ending, 2018 is coming. I usually reflect at what has happened over the year. I got wrapped up in focusing on attention on wife and realized after re-reading some red pill materials, NMMNG and really looking inside that I am spending WAY TOO MUCH effort on getting my wife to change or GET THIS at the moment.. If I have some other conversation at this point, I just am asking myself - is what I am doing working, will talking get through to someone who is not really listening to what I am saying? Will me convincing my wife to get on the romance program - create desire for her to do so ?

So I am going through this NMMNG right now again. I am looking at MY PLAN. Because here is the point - whether I am with her or not, I have to work on me.. I have to get me to a better point for ME, not for her or for her to desire me - but what is best for me..

I have just doubled the days for my lifting. Today I went and worked out for 1.5 hours. I felt great, I saw some positive incredibly good looking people - as I am .. I realized that I am a winner and I deserve to be amazing for me. So I am working on improving me, reading the NMMNG and leaving my wife alone. I have started looking at all my giving and being worried about what she is doing. I think I need to LET go right now and work on my MASTER PLAN...my personal goals for me to be the best version of me..SHIFT who I am, not for my wife - for me ! 

I have some goals that are important for me:

Lift EveryDay - Because it makes me feel good.
Get shredded 6-8% bodyfat - because I want to push the bar for myself and look amazing naked for myself - not my wife.
Build my Social Life - Start going out with Friends Again / Like Minded Friends ( Active, Physical, Connected) 
Go After Passions Again : Start going after what I want for me ! 
Financial - Build up My Businesses 
Mental/ Patterns - Create New Patterns Around being TRUE to my NEEDS/ Vs. Falling into the Nice Guy Patterns
Sexuality - Embrace Sexuality / Masculinity - work on things for me !

If I work on ME, shedding my patterns for me, being TRUE to me that is best!, lets face it - I might as well become my true vision of me as whether it works out with my wife or not - I can not wait for her to show up in order to .. I need to be true to me and make my plan the priority - which will also include creating resources for me to basically lay a boundary and go either way ..

I need to keep working on the exercises in NMMNG along with building MY LIFE, with or without anyone else. Because I know there are lots of WOMEN that would love to be with me, but I think perhaps right now - I need to be my own best lover ..


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## Livvie

I think that's a great plan. However! I also think you have to decided to become so hyper focussed on yourself so you can continue to ignore the pickle you are in with your marriage, which is, you don't have a marriage partnership but rather a roommate/co parents marriage.

I can see most of 2018 flying by as you focus on yourself, with no attention to or resolution about what you are going to do about the non marriage you are in.


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## ConanHub

Sounds like a good direction. I am not usually an advocate for passive aggression so being straight with your wife is my advice.

I believe she needs to be fully informed about your intentions concerning your future love interests.

You don't sound physically unfit at all so just make sure you have big shoulders, women love muscles and shoulders are points of serious consideration.

Your wife seems healthy so it is probably psychological.

Is her cheating a possibility?

That isn't my go to answer but it shouldn't be overlooked.

She has stopped seeing you as sexually desirable for some reason.

Read "What Do Women Want?" By Daniel Bergner for some good insights. Might yield something you can use.

Does she understand that you will be having sex in the future, with or without her?


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## ConanHub

How are you with confrontation and conflict?


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## sunchild15

I seem to be ok with confrontation and conflict...explain more what you mean?


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## ConanHub

sunchild15 said:


> I seem to be ok with confrontation and conflict...explain more what you mean?


I don't believe you have effectively confronted your wife regarding the destruction of your marriage.


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## john117

ConanHub said:


> I don't believe you have effectively confronted your wife regarding the destruction of your marriage.


I'm not sure she comprehends that level of outcome...


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## ConanHub

john117 said:


> I'm not sure she comprehends that level of outcome...


I'm in agreement. She needs a wake up.


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## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> I'm in agreement. She needs a wake up.


I agree also. 

He has whined and bargained and pleaded. He is reading books and posting on forums. 

.....what is she doing to address these issues? Is she ordering books off Amazon? Is she seeing doctors and counselors and shrinks? Is she posting on forums on how to get her mojo back and how to reestablish a romantic/sexual connection with her husband???????

No. She is good. She sees this as his issue to work out. She is comfortable and content. 

To take this seriously, her comfort and security and status quo need to be rocked. 

This is past the stage where "talk" will accomplish anything. He will likely need to pack up, move out, file paperwork and start dating to get her attention and get her to take it seriously.

Doing that will not make her horny and hot for his bod. 

But it will do one of two things - it will either wake her up out of her comfort zone and bring her to the negotiating table and get her into MC to address the issues and take actual action to reestablish an actual marriage. 

- or she will sign the papers and start packing her own stuff as well. 

In either case it breaks the deadlock and breaks the status quo. 

If what he says about himself is even halfway true, he will have no trouble getting other women. 

It is his own oneitis and reluctance to rock the boat and reluctance to consider walking away that is keeping him hamstrung in this situation.


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## john117

She's not waking up.

She has several strikes against her:

- culture (we can thank the Brits for puritanizing India)
- age
- comfort zone status
- depression
- high likelihood of resentment
- entitlement mentality

And that's what we know. I'd be willing to bet the spare wheel on my Mini Cooper S (*) that there's skeletons we don't know about either. 

(*) There ain't one on the S.


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## sunchild15

At the moment I am doing the 180. And focusing on my plan as far as getting my life together with or without her. This is definitely something I need to plan for if i am going to draw a line in the sand to get with the program of get off the boat ...


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## Prodigal

sunchild15 said:


> This is definitely something I need to plan for if i am going to draw a line in the sand to get with the program of get off the boat ...


Yeah, right ... you need a "plan" before you can tell your wife you won't tolerate a sexless marriage. Okay ...


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