# Do men make fun of a wrong performed sex act?



## lovelygirl

So..in reference to another thread in the "Sex" department where I posted, I thought I'd ask men (women are welcomed as well) over something that has been bothering me lately. I used to be more careless at a younger age...but now something has changed...

I'm 29, haven't really had any stable (or lasting) relationship. I've dated guys for 1-2 months and then it was over. The only lasting relationship that I had was 9 months (but with no sex at all and it was my first relationship when I was around 22). 

With some of the guys that I've dated, I've had an OK sex [as I wasn't in love with any of them and I didn't feel comfortable.] These guys were interested ONLY in sex and given that I've always wanted more than that, I stopped seeing them. Also, I wouldn't give them any oral sex as I didn't consider them emotionally close to me. I see giving/receiving oral VERY intimate and I'd like to share it with someone that I'm in an exclusive relationship. So, out of all the guys that I've dated, I've given oral only to one guy...a couple of years ago. _(Don't ask me why I date guys who want just sex. I actually want a stable relationship, but for some reason I always end up with the wrong guys... :frown2 _

I think I am HD and If I could, I'd have no problem having sex everyday, I like to experiment with positions, I like to talk about sex and do things very openly with my partner. 

The only problem that I've been having lately is what the guy might think of how I perform in sex with him. Am I good/bad? What he thinks....etc.
A few months ago I dated a guy who was into *BSDM*. He said he was very experienced in this type of sex but I was hesitant to have sex with him in the first place, as I didn't feel confident I'd satisfy him enough, starting even from oral [which for him was the minimum]. 
I was afraid he'd make fun of me for not performing right in the bedroom so I let him go at all. We went out several times and he was expecting us to try things, but then I didn't feel comfortable and ended things with him. 

Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age. Plus, I'm tired of meaningless dating. I want something real.
I swear, if I had a stable partner, I wouldn't mind giving him any kind of pleasure, although I know I need some more practice. 

Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite? 
Did you make fun of her (in your mind?) 
Did you feel disappointed? 
Did you comment it with your friends?

These are my concerns. Probably, you'd make fun of them too haha..


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## Andy1001

lovelygirl said:


> So..in reference to another thread in the "Sex" department where I posted, I thought I'd ask men (women are welcomed as well) over something that has been bothering me lately. I used to be more careless at a younger age...but now something has changed...
> 
> I'm 29, haven't really had any stable (or lasting) relationship. I've dated guys for 1-2 months and then it was over. The only lasting relationship that I had was 9 months (but with no sex at all and it was my first relationship when I was around 22).
> 
> With some of the guys that I've dated, I've had an OK sex [as I wasn't in love with any of them and I didn't feel comfortable.] These guys were interested ONLY in sex and given that I've always wanted more than that, I stopped seeing them. Also, I wouldn't give them any oral sex as I didn't consider them emotionally close to me. I see giving/receiving oral VERY intimate and I'd like to share it with someone that I'm in an exclusive relationship. So, out of all the guys that I've dated, I've given oral only to one guy...a couple of years ago. _(Don't ask me why I date guys who want just sex. I actually want a stable relationship, but for some reason I always end up with the wrong guys... :frown2 _
> 
> I think I am HD and If I could, I'd have no problem having sex everyday, I like to experiment with positions, I like to talk about sex and do things very openly with my partner.
> 
> The only problem that I've been having lately is what the guy might think of how I perform in sex with him. Am I good/bad? What he thinks....etc.
> A few months ago I dated a guy who was into *BSDM*. He said he was very experienced in this type of sex but I was hesitant to have sex with him in the first place, as I didn't feel confident I'd satisfy him enough, starting even from oral [which for him was the minimum].
> I was afraid he'd make fun of me for not performing right in the bedroom so I let him go at all. We went out several times and he was expecting us to try things, but then I didn't feel comfortable and ended things with him.
> 
> Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age. Plus, I'm tired of meaningless dating. I want something real.
> I swear, if I had a stable partner, I wouldn't mind giving him any kind of pleasure, although I know I need some more practice.
> 
> Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite?
> Did you make fun of her (in your mind?)
> Did you feel disappointed?
> Did you comment it with your friends?
> 
> These are my concerns. Probably, you'd make fun of them too haha..


Have you ever heard a man say let's **** first,then we'll make love.He gets what he wants and you get what you want in no particular order.Dont worry about doing anything wrong,there is no wrong way there is just YOUR way.People overthink sex,instead of just having a good time.


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## CharlieParker

lovelygirl said:


> The only problem that I've been having lately is what the guy might think of how I perform in sex with him. Am I good/bad? What he thinks....etc.


You're an honorary guy, you are overthinking. You are dating, testing, if you or he are unhappy with the "performance" move on, no biggie. So, you have had sex :smile2:, good first step, you will figure it out. Will you be judged, yes. Will you judge, I hope so. Just don't let yourself be abused. Also do not think of what a guy may (or may not) be thinking of how you "perform". Be yourself, be open and you'll be good.


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## DepressedHusband

lovelygirl said:


> So..in reference to another thread in the "Sex" department where I posted, I thought I'd ask men (women are welcomed as well) over something that has been bothering me lately. I used to be more careless at a younger age...but now something has changed...
> 
> I'm 29, haven't really had any stable (or lasting) relationship. I've dated guys for 1-2 months and then it was over. The only lasting relationship that I had was 9 months (but with no sex at all and it was my first relationship when I was around 22).
> 
> With some of the guys that I've dated, I've had an OK sex [as I wasn't in love with any of them and I didn't feel comfortable.] These guys were interested ONLY in sex and given that I've always wanted more than that, I stopped seeing them. Also, I wouldn't give them any oral sex as I didn't consider them emotionally close to me. I see giving/receiving oral VERY intimate and I'd like to share it with someone that I'm in an exclusive relationship. So, out of all the guys that I've dated, I've given oral only to one guy...a couple of years ago. _(Don't ask me why I date guys who want just sex. I actually want a stable relationship, but for some reason I always end up with the wrong guys... :frown2 _
> 
> I think I am HD and If I could, I'd have no problem having sex everyday, I like to experiment with positions, I like to talk about sex and do things very openly with my partner.
> 
> The only problem that I've been having lately is what the guy might think of how I perform in sex with him. Am I good/bad? What he thinks....etc.
> A few months ago I dated a guy who was into *BSDM*. He said he was very experienced in this type of sex but I was hesitant to have sex with him in the first place, as I didn't feel confident I'd satisfy him enough, starting even from oral [which for him was the minimum].
> I was afraid he'd make fun of me for not performing right in the bedroom so I let him go at all. We went out several times and he was expecting us to try things, but then I didn't feel comfortable and ended things with him.
> 
> Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age. Plus, I'm tired of meaningless dating. I want something real.
> I swear, if I had a stable partner, I wouldn't mind giving him any kind of pleasure, although I know I need some more practice.
> 
> Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite?
> Did you make fun of her (in your mind?)
> Did you feel disappointed?
> Did you comment it with your friends?
> 
> These are my concerns. Probably, you'd make fun of them too haha..



I feel like your focusing on the sex to much and not the issue with why you don't seem to be able to develop intimacy and long term bonds. 

I think some introspection is required. stop sleeping with people, frankly stop seeing people, and really figure out who you are. It maybe, after a bit of self assessment, you are not who you believe yourself to be. If you are a great,warm,feminine,loving,warm woman, men should be beating down your door. Sometimes, the hardest thing in life, is accepting that others do not see us the same way we see ourselves. Get a therapist, might be able to help you work this out, also stop sleeping around, it isn't helping you sexual market value and with you approaching 30 that is going to take a hit quickly as your fertility diminishes, high quality men who might have been into you are going to head for more fertile younger females.


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## TheTruthHurts

@lovelygirl these are probably normal feelings so don't worry.

Guys will make offhand comments without thinking sometimes because we're generally not emotionally connected right away. So even if someone does say something, it probably wouldn't mean anything

I don't know where you're from or what the social norms are in your area. Some places are pretty conservative and you can date a while and not jump into bed - and then can get to know a guy and vice versa - then you'll be more likely to have the emotional connection and the sex will be lower stress and better for you.

In some areas and with some groups, if you don't have sex people will move on.

Look for a better match of people for Yu to take it a bit slower maybe. That could be church or friends of friends, etc. These types of situations lend themselves more for a closer match sometimes.

Btw I would never intentionally ridicule a woman for sexual performance and I would expect the same from them. Inexperience is normal. Sometimes if you get that out at the start, your partner will work with you.

The first night I met my W I told her I was a virgin because I was concerned (but I also wanted to get laid). She laughed and said so am I. Then the pressure was off and we took the time to develop a relationship and explore things together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski

Want to know what the guy who received the worst BJ in the history of sex said to himself afterward?

"Wow, that was AWESOME."


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## Vinnydee

Any sex is better than no sex. There are times when we tried something that just did not work but we never made fun of each other, just a failed experiment. We experimented a lot with each other and outsiders. Some things worked and some did not but I never made fun of a woman who tried. Some girls are better at certain things than others. What my wife lacked, our girlfriend made up for. Together they were everything you could ask for sexually. We experimented a lot and had a lot of laughs at failed or hopeless attempts at things we saw in porn. Someone losing their balance and taking two others with them is funny but we laughed at what happened, not each other. No matter how bad a girl was I never made fun of her or spoke ill of her to anyone. The fact that she shared her body with me implied a trust or at least that is how I view it. Nothing to laugh about. 

Great sex comes from great communication. If you tell someone you want to try something new, I do not know how they could laugh at you for trying it. If you do not tell then and fail, I can understand why they may think you are not good at sex because they will assume that what you tried is your normal way of having sex. Communicate and you can avoid any problems like you mentioned. I love to make people laugh, even at my own expense. I like laughter to be part of sex. Sex should also be fun as well as intimate and a physical display of love. Getting them to laugh was the easy part; I just took off my clothes. Bada bing. :grin2:


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## moth-into-flame

Don't worry about being judged. You sound like you'd be a good lover - but you need the connection first. The only caveat is this - regarding oral...out of all the women I've slept with post divorce, only one wasn't into oral - and I don't know her reasons, I never asked. All the others were enthusiastic about it - and it's very important to me (I enjoy giving it as well). I ended up resenting her for it and eventually lost attraction. It can be a real put off for a guy. Anyway, the caveat: communicate that you're not comfortable with oral unless you're in a more established relationship, but that it is something you enjoy in serious relationships. No oral is a deal breaker for a lot of guys.


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## Bananapeel

The answer really depends on the guy. If the guy has an easy time finding partners to have sex with then performance will matter more to him than a guy that isn't as successful. However, most guys enjoy showing a woman the ropes, and as long as she's enthusiastic and willing to try new things they don't think poorly of her. The more sexual hangups you develop (e.g. lack of oral) the less likely a sexually confident man will stay with you.


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## Steve1000

lovelygirl said:


> _(Don't ask me why I date guys who want just sex. I actually want a stable relationship, but for some reason I always end up with the wrong guys... :frown2 _
> .


Yes, there are many guys who will only be looking for sex. The problem is that you are having sex with them before you know that they are only looking for sex. If you are looking for a relationship, then weed out the guys who are only looking for sex by not not having sex with them early in the relationship.


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## badsanta

lovelygirl said:


> Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite?
> Did you make fun of her (in your mind?)
> Did you feel disappointed?
> Did you comment it with your friends?


I'll answer this from a different point of view than you may be expecting. Even when you have been with a partner for over 20 years, sex can at times be awkward, turn out the opposite as expected, and completely fail. But you know what? The best part is having someone that still makes you feel loved and you both know that neither of you are perfect, but that you will each keep trying. 

Oddly enough, the only time I think I joke about my wife sexually is when something actually was so good that I almost couldn't believe it. 

The only person I joke about for being bad in bed would be myself, but I make those jokes combined with unreasonable confidence that I'm actually proud of my failures, which can be fun!


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## FeministInPink

I'm not a guy, but I will chime in anyway.

I have learned that when you're the female partner, enthusiasm goes a lot farther than knowledge or skill. You can always learn how to do something better, and you get better with practice. You can fake it till you make it, in other words.

But you can't fake enthusiasm, and all men want their partner to be enthusiastic. Enthusiastic sex is always the bext sex, even when everything else goes wrong!


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## Eagle3

Unless you are heartless most guys won't make fun of someone doing sexual acts with them. Hell most throw a parade. 

OP it's not just a women's worry. Guys too worry about it. Are we satisfying our partner? Are we turning her on? Are we big enough? Will she tell her girlfriends what we do wrong. So don't get hung up on this. Chances are the guy you are with is thinking same thing.

Just relax and enjoy the experience


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## Wolf1974

I have had disappointing sex and bjs for sure. Mostly due to woman over talking her abilities and finding out it's all talk. But I have never made fun of them. That part makes so sense


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## notmyrealname4

DepressedHusband said:


> ..... also stop sleeping around, it isn't helping you sexual market value and with you approaching 30 that is going to take a hit quickly as your fertility diminishes, high quality men who might have been into you are going to head for more fertile younger females.




I bet that makes you feel so much better......right @lovelygirl ?


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## uhtred

I am of the firm belief that all that matters for sex is a honest desire to please. What specific techniques people want vary a lot anyway, so no amount of knowledge is going to make someone a perfect lover. If your partner is also a good lover, then they will guide / hint you towards what they enjoy while paying attention to any hints that you give about what you would like. 

There are obnoxious people out there who will complain. All I can say is that if it happens, be glad you learned about them early in the relationship.

Anyone who complains about a partners sexual technique deserves to be shown the door - or window if its closer and your not above the 3rd floor.


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## uhtred

Separately from "complaining" it sounds like you aren't quite meeting the people you want. Having sex with random guys is absolutely fine if you enjoy that, but if you are looking for something longer term, I think you should think about how you pick guys. Are you missing something, or fixating on something that is attracting you to guys who just want sex?

It could be as simple as noticing a certain style of dress or behavior that is calculated to be attractive to women, but is not really honest. ;


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## ConanHub

lovelygirl said:


> So..in reference to another thread in the "Sex" department where I posted, I thought I'd ask men (women are welcomed as well) over something that has been bothering me lately. I used to be more careless at a younger age...but now something has changed...
> 
> I'm 29, haven't really had any stable (or lasting) relationship. I've dated guys for 1-2 months and then it was over. The only lasting relationship that I had was 9 months (but with no sex at all and it was my first relationship when I was around 22).
> 
> With some of the guys that I've dated, I've had an OK sex [as I wasn't in love with any of them and I didn't feel comfortable.] These guys were interested ONLY in sex and given that I've always wanted more than that, I stopped seeing them. Also, I wouldn't give them any oral sex as I didn't consider them emotionally close to me. I see giving/receiving oral VERY intimate and I'd like to share it with someone that I'm in an exclusive relationship. So, out of all the guys that I've dated, I've given oral only to one guy...a couple of years ago. _(Don't ask me why I date guys who want just sex. I actually want a stable relationship, but for some reason I always end up with the wrong guys... :frown2 _
> 
> I think I am HD and If I could, I'd have no problem having sex everyday, I like to experiment with positions, I like to talk about sex and do things very openly with my partner.
> 
> The only problem that I've been having lately is what the guy might think of how I perform in sex with him. Am I good/bad? What he thinks....etc.
> A few months ago I dated a guy who was into *BSDM*. He said he was very experienced in this type of sex but I was hesitant to have sex with him in the first place, as I didn't feel confident I'd satisfy him enough, starting even from oral [which for him was the minimum].
> I was afraid he'd make fun of me for not performing right in the bedroom so I let him go at all. We went out several times and he was expecting us to try things, but then I didn't feel comfortable and ended things with him.
> 
> Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age. Plus, I'm tired of meaningless dating. I want something real.
> I swear, if I had a stable partner, I wouldn't mind giving him any kind of pleasure, although I know I need some more practice.
> 
> Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite?
> Did you make fun of her (in your mind?)
> Did you feel disappointed?
> Did you comment it with your friends?
> 
> These are my concerns. Probably, you'd make fun of them too haha..


Sweetie. You just need to be comfortable with yourself and have self confidence.

You seem to be giving the wrong guys the green light and missing Mr right.

Don't worry about men who might think less of you because of bedroom skills. They aren't worth your time.

I had a lot of partners and experience before I met Mrs. Conan. Our first time in bed didn't even rate in the top 10 of my experiences but it didn't matter because I loved her.

We got better at it and 25 years in, she is by far the best I have ever had. It should be the same for you.

Find good match in your heart and the bedroom activities will fall in line even if you both suck, pun intended, in the sack.


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## lovelygirl

Vinnydee said:


> Any sex is better than no sex. There are times when we tried something that just did not work but we never made fun of each other, just a failed experiment. We experimented a lot with each other and outsiders. Some things worked and some did not but I never made fun of a woman who tried. Some girls are better at certain things than others.* What my wife lacked, our girlfriend made up for. Together they were everything you could ask for sexually. *


Vinny, I've always appreciated your sincerity but I'm not looking to be the 3rd person in a relationship. If I'm not good at some things, I want my partner to let me know in a nicely manner and improve it along with him (for us). 
_I_ want to be the one to make up FOR HIM and ME. I don't want anyone else to make up for us. If he's not satisfied then he's free to leave. :smile2:



> Great sex comes from great communication. If you tell someone you want to try something new, I do not know how they could laugh at you for trying it. If you do not tell then and fail, I can understand why they may think you are not good at sex because they will assume that what you tried is your normal way of having sex. Communicate and you can avoid any problems like you mentioned.


I totally agree but from the dates that I've had, I've realized that the other party did not want to communicate and used shut the emotional connection right there and then. Obviously, I didn't put up with that and left. So, zero communication. 



> I love to make people laugh, even at my own expense. I like laughter to be part of sex. Sex should also be fun as well as intimate and a physical display of love. Getting them to laugh was the easy part; I just took off my clothes. Bada bing. :grin2:


haha..yeah I DO think sex should be VERY FUN, experimental..and so on. But if there's nobody to connect emotionally to, I find it difficult to make sex so intimate.


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## lovelygirl

> ...
> I think some introspection is required. *stop sleeping with people, frankly stop seeing people...
> ...also stop sleeping around, it isn't helping you sexual market value and with you approaching 30 that is going to take a hit quickly as your fertility diminishes, high quality men who might have been into you are going to head for more fertile younger females.*


*
Sorry, but you make it sound like I sleep around and that I do it frequently. That's not true at all.
The last time I had sex was in Jan. 2014 and the last time I dated a guy was last year in March ...and I usually date 1 guy per year or no guy at all. Does it seem to you like I have low-standards for myself and that I sleep around the block?? I don't think so. 




and really figure out who you are. It maybe, after a bit of self assessment, you are not who you believe yourself to be.

Click to expand...

I've done self-assessment for all my life and I'm actually tired of it. I know I seem cold at first sight and when a guy sees me on the street he thinks I don't him to approach me [that's the feedback that I have from others.] But when someone gets to know me better, I'm quite the opposite. Caring, lovely, communicative...and so on.




Get a therapist, might be able to help you work this out.

Click to expand...

Probably. But I think it mostly has to do with places I go to like bars, clubs...etc.
Chances are I won't find quality men over there.*


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## lovelygirl

moth-into-flame said:


> Don't worry about being judged. You sound like you'd be a good lover - but you need the connection first. The only caveat is this - regarding oral...out of all the women I've slept with post divorce, only one wasn't into oral - and I don't know her reasons, I never asked. All the others were enthusiastic about it - and it's very important to me (I enjoy giving it as well). I ended up resenting her for it and eventually lost attraction. It can be a real put off for a guy. Anyway, the caveat: *communicate that you're not comfortable with oral unless you're in a more established relationship, but that it is something you enjoy in serious relationships. No oral is a deal breaker for a lot of guys*.


I have communicated this to the guy and they probably took it as offensive and decided to leave. I wanted to be sincere by letting them know that oral is something I'd do in a stable / emotional relationship and if I don't see that emotional connection with the guy, I'm not giving any oral. I know it could be a deal breaker, but I'm not changing my standards unless a guy is worth of me doing so.


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## lovelygirl

Steve1000 said:


> Yes, there are many guys who will only be looking for sex. The problem is that you are having sex with them before you know that they are only looking for sex. If you are looking for a relationship, then weed out the guys who are only looking for sex by not not having sex with them early in the relationship.


Firs off, I don't have sex with all the guys that I date.

Second off, the sex comes after a month or two months of dating. 

Third, some already leave because they can't wait a month or two to have sex.


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## lovelygirl

uhtred said:


> Separately from "complaining" it sounds like you aren't quite meeting the people you want. Having sex with random guys is absolutely fine if you enjoy that, but if you are looking for something longer term, I think you should think about how you pick guys. Are you missing something, or fixating on something that is attracting you to guys who just want sex?
> 
> It could be as simple as noticing a certain style of dress or behavior that is calculated to be attractive to women, but is not really honest. ;


"Random" would not be the perfect word for my situation. I don't have one night stands and I don't sleep with anyone that comes my way.

But as I said previously in my posts, I should consider changing the places I go to. Bars, clubs, gym...are places where guys are also very self-centered and think about their pleasure most of the times. I don't want to judge as not everyone is the same, but I could be attracting to the wrong type of guys in those places.


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## lovelygirl

ConanHub said:


> Sweetie. You just need to be comfortable with yourself and have self confidence.


My favorite Alpha TAMer!! 










So glad to see you around!!!




> You seem to be giving the wrong guys the green light and missing Mr right.
> 
> Don't worry about men who might think less of you because of bedroom skills. They aren't worth your time.
> 
> I had a lot of partners and experience before I met Mrs. Conan. Our first time in bed didn't even rate in the top 10 of my experiences but it didn't matter because I loved her.


I remember she was a virgin when you met her. What made you stay with her in the long run? Did you have sex with her after marriage or before?



> We got better at it and 25 years in, she is by far the best I have ever had.


It got better because I guess you were both good at communicating your needs to each other and appreciating the time spent together. It doesn't happen to every couple.



> Find good match in your heart and the bedroom activities will fall in line even if you both suck, pun intended, in the sack.


Finding a good match is keeping me from exploring sex even more, which I'd be more than willing to.


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## Marc878

You're way over thinking things. Stop!!!!!


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## TaDor

GusPolinski said:


> Want to know what the guy who received the worst BJ in the history of sex said to himself afterward?
> 
> "Wow, that was AWESOME."


LOL! Funny... yes. But no. Bad sex or bad BJ can be bad enough to not be worth it. My wife is very good, top 3 in my life... and she likes giving as do I. A friend of hers gets the #1 ribbon thou.


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## 2ntnuf

There's nothing wrong with you, lovely.


I have to admit, I did laugh once. I won't say who it was, but she farted during sex. I laughed so freakin' hard, my stomach hurt. Sorry, but I couldn't help it. Then, I hugged the hell out of her.............while chuckling a little. 


I think I am a thirteen year old in an old man's body..................................


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## TaDor

As its been stated... you need to be comfortable in your own skin and skills - abut also being INTO it, is a factor. "all that matters for sex is a honest desire to please" makes a difference.

I also agree you are wasting time with the wrong guys - its fine they want sex, its not fine for them to pretend they are offering a bit more. 

It seems to me that you are lacking experience in being in an actual relationship. Getting your heart broken a few times is normal in life.

But here is HOW guys think: SEX SEX SEX SEX. I love my wife as a whole person - but thinking of sex. As a guy - we all notice attractive women. Nothing you can do about it. We're going to peek.
When you are dating a guy for the first time... until there is sex, most men will not be thinking much about the rest of you. Maybe likely if its an office affair... but that is sometimes fake as well.

There are guys who just want sex, will run away when sex drops off or you ask for more.
There are lovers, who want sex and respect their partners but have a known distance. ie: You and HE knows what the boundaries are... if you exceed them, he goes away (that was me - but I usually just reverted to being a friend afterwards with most of them).
You have to look out for the love-struck guys who can be creepers...
What you want is a guy who is sexual and wants your heart and wants you to have is. LOVE

Before I get more into this. I recommend you have sessions with a sex therapist. There is also books you can buy on sexual positions and more. I have to go out the door soon, so my thoughts below will be quick.

Well... think of it as fishing. If you only date one man every 1~2 years, your net is tiny. I have complete respect for a women who sleeps around / NSA sex than one who pretends that love and sex are the same thing. (This is not directed at you). I mean, in the modern world - where nobody thinks anything is wrong when a MAN sleeps around - its not fair to think any less when women do so.

Oral sex : Its not high on the list for most guys as you think in terms of "respect". If you like to do oral, do it... but you should get it in return. We like that.

Here is a fault you have: You said something like "I date a guy for a month before sex and it lasts a month or so". For relationships that don't go beyond sex - 1~3 months is typical. That is when people usually get bored. Most of those guys you kept at bay for a month - I have a secret for you. They likely got laid by someone else after the date with you or within a few days. You didn't get them to prove anything.
I've had some dates go south - blah. I'd go to the club and have fun with others (sex may or may not happen) - but I'm going out. Hell, that is how I got a girlfriend 10 years ago. A 3some date got canceled - but I was already on the way. So I still went to the venue - meet a woman I liked a lot. No sex, we talked until the sun came up. I told the ladies the next day "I'm not interested anymore - I have feelings for someone I meet last night". They were bumbed but wished me well. 

My wife: We met at a club. Thought she was going to be a one night stand as we were having sex 2-3 hours after meeting. We talked daily and had our first date 2 days later. Engaged a few weeks later, married a few months later. We've been together for 6 years now. I've had sex with over 100 women (If I really think about it, I know its between 150~180 or so). I've never cheated on my wife. A good female friend of mine was wasting time in a bad relationship. I told her to dump the jerk. She did, cried for a month and dated and got laid by a guy or two before meeting a guy online. They are now 3 years together.

Point is: You will never know when you may meet "Mr. Right". But you are not going to find him by dating 1 guy a year and over thinking about it.

If you want a kid - then you are going to be hitting that clock soon. I recommend 1-2 years of serious relationship with a boyfriend, then marriage (if you both want that) - spend another 2-3 years together to make sure you are compatible, have FUN with each other because Children are stress to a marriage and will be in the way of your relationship with your SO. Its generally best to have a kid before the age of 35... as 30+, each year becomes more of a challenge. 40+ starts becoming low-odds territory. 

Remember, talk to a sex therapist.


----------



## bandit.45

FeministInPink said:


> I'm not a guy, but I will chime in anyway.
> 
> I have learned that when you're the female partner, enthusiasm goes a lot farther than knowledge or skill. You can always learn how to do something better, and you get better with practice. You can fake it till you make it, in other words.
> 
> But you can't fake enthusiasm, and all men want their partner to be enthusiastic. Enthusiastic sex is always the bext sex, even when everything else goes wrong!


This is why women in their forties and fifties make the best lovers. They know what they like, what they want and they are long past being ashamed to ask for it. And more often than not, they are much more experienced, enthusiastic and adventurous. Mature women rock! :grin2:


----------



## bandit.45

lovelygirl said:


> Finding a good match is keeping me from exploring sex even more, which I'd be more than willing to.


Let me ask you. Do you like a man who takes charge in the bedroom?


----------



## TaDor

bandit.45 said:


> This is why women in their forties and fifties make the best lovers. They know what they like, what they want and they are long past being ashamed to ask for it. And more often than not, they are much more experienced, enthusiastic and adventurous. Mature women rock! :grin2:


That usually comes from experience - not age. I've had to "teach" a few women in their 40's and one about 50 - about sex as their experience was only 2-3 guys. They never had a guy go downtown on them. I've done things to them in one night that their EX-husbands never did in 15~20 years of marriage. I can think of two "conservative housewives" who left their husbands in their late 40s and turned into total sex maniac machines - making up for lost time.

That said, the older women - once they got into oral sex as something that isn't gross or controlling or demeaning, were very good lovers.


----------



## uhtred

You are probably right that you aren't meeting people in the best places. I wonder if meeting say on a tour or a group backpacking trip or similar might work. Someplace where you can at first interact in a non-romantic, non-sexual situation that is still interesting. Then when its clear you are compatible in other ways move towards romance. 

Actually my dating experience is very limited, married one of the first relationships I had. 



lovelygirl said:


> "Random" would not be the perfect word for my situation. I don't have one night stands and I don't sleep with anyone that comes my way.
> 
> But as I said previously in my posts, I should consider changing the places I go to. Bars, clubs, gym...are places where guys are also very self-centered and think about their pleasure most of the times. I don't want to judge as not everyone is the same, but I could be attracting to the wrong type of guys in those places.


----------



## lovelygirl

2ntnuf said:


> There's nothing wrong with you, lovely.
> 
> 
> I have to admit, I did laugh once. I won't say who it was, but she farted during sex. I laughed so freakin' hard, my stomach hurt. Sorry, but I couldn't help it. Then, I hugged the hell out of her.............while chuckling a little.
> 
> 
> I think I am a thirteen year old in an old man's body..................................


Well..farting is another thing. If I farted during sex, I would laugh too. As it's kind of embarrassing and funny at the same time...so I'd laugh at myself as well. Nothing wrong with that. 

But making fun with OTHERS for a bad bed performance is totally different from your example. If my guy made fun of me behind my back with his guy-friends, then I'd be offended ..especially if I performed bad oral on him.


----------



## lovelygirl

TaDor, thanks for your thoughtful long post.



TaDor said:


> Here is a fault you have: You said something like "I date a guy for a month before sex and it lasts a month or so". For relationships that don't go beyond sex - 1~3 months is typical. That is when people usually get bored. Most of those guys you kept at bay for a month - I have a secret for you. They likely got laid by someone else after the date with you or within a few days. You didn't get them to prove anything.


I've also thought that after a month of dating with no sex, the guy gets bored. But on the other hand, I don't feel like having sex with someone if I get turned off by certain things he says or does. It's like he shuts my sexual excitement down and sex goes off the list for me. 



> I've had some dates go south - blah. I'd go to the club and have fun with others (sex may or may not happen) - but I'm going out. Hell, that is how I got a girlfriend 10 years ago. A 3some date got canceled - but I was already on the way. So I still went to the venue - meet a woman I liked a lot. No sex, we talked until the sun came up. I told the ladies the next day "I'm not interested anymore - I have feelings for someone I meet last night". They were bumbed but wished me well.


Interesting enough! 



> My wife: We met at a club. Thought she was going to be a one night stand as we were having sex 2-3 hours after meeting. We talked daily and had our first date 2 days later. Engaged a few weeks later, married a few months later. We've been together for 6 years now. I've had sex with over 100 women (If I really think about it, I know its between 150~180 or so). I've never cheated on my wife.


You are kind of an exception to the rule. Usually, people who meet at the bar and have ONS, don't end up in a proper relationship, let alone marriage. 
Does your wife compare with you about the number of partners she had before you? 
Not that it matters much, though.



> Well... think of it as fishing. If you only date one man every 1~2 years, your net is tiny.


It is tiny because most men around me are mostly interested in sex only. When they approach me, it mostly gets sexual before I even think of anything emotional. When I feel that SEX is in the air, I simply leave and end up dating a guy a year when I see that he could be more than a sexual partner.



> If you want a kid - then you are going to be hitting that clock soon. I recommend 1-2 years of serious relationship with a boyfriend, then marriage (if you both want that) - spend another 2-3 years together to make sure you are compatible, have FUN with each other because Children are stress to a marriage and will be in the way of your relationship with your SO. Its generally best to have a kid before the age of 35... as 30+, each year becomes more of a challenge. 40+ starts becoming low-odds territory.


You make good points here and lay out a fair timeline to manage the relationship/marriage life properly. 
Although, I'm not interested in kids/marriage [for the next 5 years or so]...and I'd be more interested in having a lasting, proper relationship.


----------



## 2ntnuf

lovelygirl said:


> Well..farting is another thing. If I farted during sex, I would laugh too. As it's kind of embarrassing and funny at the same time...so I'd laugh at myself as well. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But making fun with OTHERS for a bad bed performance is totally different from your example. *If my guy made fun of me behind my back with his guy-friends*, then I'd be offended ..especially if I performed bad oral on him.


Where are you finding these 'men'? How old are you? Maybe that's the issue? I guess you've had this happen since you've grown up? Seems really odd and I have actually had someone say something to me that was very hurtful in real life. It came from a younger woman. It came from some older women. They are really not the kind of women I'd date. 

Maybe I always talked and dated them till I knew them before I slept with them? I think that's true and I probably lost some that left because I was too slow to jump into sex, for them. Screw them.

I'm not looking for someone different than I am, anyway. See how that works? Plus, I don't pride myself on my prowess in bed. I do the best I can. If it isn't good enough or I am not big enough, tough. We can go our own ways. Go ahead and talk about me.

There are so few I'd bother to sleep with, it would be tough to know if they are being truthful. I have less sex, but there are decisions to make and boundaries to be set and followed. There are consequences for my decisions and theirs. I don't know or care much about what theirs are. That's up to them to figure out. It's their life, and mine is mine. 

I think you are worried way too much.


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## lovelygirl

Hiii Band!! 



bandit.45 said:


> Let me ask you. Do you like a man who takes charge in the bedroom?


I'd love such man! I wouldn't mind taking charge too, but I'd love him to be in charge of the bedroom and I'd happily come long with him.

Why do you ask?


----------



## lovelygirl

2ntnuf said:


> Where are you finding these 'men'? H*ow old are you? *Maybe that's the issue?


29 years old. Hitting 30 in Nov.



> I guess you've had this happen since you've grown up? Seems really odd and I have actually had someone say something to me that was very hurtful in real life. It came from a younger woman. It came from some older women. They are really not the kind of women I'd date.


Back when I was 22, I was in a relationship for 9 months with a guy and his friend started making fun of the sex performance of his gf at the time ...and how she was not good at oral and how she was laying there like a dead fish.
What a jerk! He made those comments in front of ME - his friend's gf at the time - How evil can one be?

Also, when I was 25 I was dating a guy I gave oral to (we dated for 3 months) and he was the first and only to perform oral on. After I was done, I noticed he was looking at me at a certain..strange way..... and while performing oral I was thinking if he was liking it or not and what he might have been thinking.. 
Now I know it's wrong and I should have been concentrated on the act itself rather than on his opinion.

I mean, I felt a bit uncomfortable for that performance and I know I might not have have been the best...but I was embarrassed to ask him about that look on his face. :|
My fault, I know. 



> I think you are worried way too much.


I am worried, because I've seen guys leave while those who remain want just sex. 
On the other hand I have my own sexual needs that I'd love to share with someone IF he's interested in me for real.
I'm not the ONS type[although I don't judge those who are]...but I miss having sex and given the HD type that I think I am, I worry I might become LD once I go past 30s. I don't know what might happen to my body and my sexual desires which are at their peak now.[I feel like a teenager once again..>]

I'm reading the book "Why men love Beetches" by Sherry Argov and I'm realizing some of my past mistakes..which have changed before I even started reading the book. I like the book so far and I'll share my thoughts here once I'm done with it.


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## 2ntnuf

...


----------



## TheTruthHurts

@lovelygirl are you affectionate and flirty when you have a new boyfriend? Are you safe and approachable by guys that aren't completely conceited but who might be a little shy? There are many things besides sex that will keep a quality guy interested,but he has to know that sex is at least a possibility.

Guys love to have their egos stroked and be admired. These are pretty common things that look for in any woman. It makes them feel like they might able to be a one and only for the woman and keeps them on the hook.

If you are affectionate and show interest and passion you can still slowly open the relationship to sexual aspects while the emotional connection grows.

Being specific, you can "start" things in places that won't allow completion - and include kissing, fondling, grinding... hj

I think it's ok to start some sexual interaction very early in a relationship so a guy knows he's not getting friendzoned or strung along. If you are a little sexual, then as he pushes you for more (which ALL guys will do) then you can simply say you find him attractive and sexy but just need a bit more time because you don't hop into bed with guys. Many guys (with their double standards) actually want to hear that (followed immediately by sex  

Anyway I realize you probably know all this and you seem to already have your answer that you need better places to find guys. I just wanted to confirm a lot of guys will wait if you throw them a bone and are clear you find them sexy.

So where do all the good boys go? Try the grocery store. That's a great safe way to meet a guy - everyone eats and independent guys even shop. Loiter around a cute guy and see what he buys. You can always ask "are those any good" to start a conversation. Coffee shops - hang around and size up the regulars. Hardware stores - seriously - look a little helpless and the KISAs will come out to help.

In all cases you have to start the dialog but it's easier because you are doing it in the context of the place so it's not obvious you're hitting on a guy 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anonmd

As FIP said, show some enthusiasm. Nothing else matters!


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## ConanHub

lovelygirl said:


> My favorite Alpha TAMer!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So glad to see you around!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I remember she was a virgin when you met her. What made you stay with her in the long run? Did you have sex with her after marriage or before?
> 
> 
> It got better because I guess you were both good at communicating your needs to each other and appreciating the time spent together. It doesn't happen to every couple.
> 
> 
> Finding a good match is keeping me from exploring sex even more, which I'd be more than willing to.


She wasn't a virgin but I was far more experienced than her. We had sex within 10 hours of meeting but that is a dynamic I wouldn't recommend for everyone. Every woman I was ever with sexually had her clothing off and eagerly ready as fast as she could get me to agree.

Mrs. Conan was not different in that respect. She just wanted a hot f**k. The difference was how I felt about her. I new the moment I saw her. She took convincing to develop feelings for me. I basically screwed her into submission or sexed her so much and well that she fell for me but she had my heart at first sight.

I knew from the first that she was it so the remainder of our lives just needed worked out. Our first kiss sealed it for sure. She held nothing back and I will swear that I could feel her womb open up during it! Probably something to that because the only time we had unprotected sex in 4 years was when she conceived our son.


Our sex got better immediately after the first time because we did communicate, me mostly drawing her out to tell me how to please her as I already knew how to be pleased with a woman.

We had sex somewhere between 30 and 50 times the first week and somewhere in the middle she started howling like a dog in a good way.

Reasons can be different for two people succeeding in a relationship.

She just wanted a good time and I was willing to give her the best time of her life while trying to win her heart.

She was in it for the sex while I was in it for love at the start.

That dynamic has changed and grown over the years.

I became more interested in sex and she became more interested in love with me.

It will always grow and change because all living things do. Our marriage is alive so our sex and other affections continue to change and grow.

Self realization and confidence are vital characteristics for anyone to succeed in romance.

Your internal makeup and development will give you the greatest results.

If you are strong in who you are, you will attract more than one acceptable mate. When you find him, go for it.

There are no hard and fast rules. I literally used my physical assets and seduction skills to overwhelm her into my life. No one else stood a chance against me in that arena and I knew it. Not fair?

I don't care. I successfully seduced her and made her mine using what I had.

I wasn't rich or successful. I was a heartthrob / bad boy that oozed raw sex appeal.

If I had money, I would have blown outrageous amounts in my play for her.

Whatever it took to win her is what I was willing to pay.

I was poor and sexy so I used what I had.

Sorry for getting a bit long here. Just trying to paint a more accurate image.


----------



## TaDor

2ntnuf said:


> I have to admit, I did laugh once. I won't say who it was, but she farted during sex. I laughed so freakin' hard, my stomach hurt. Sorry, but I couldn't help it. Then, I hugged the hell out of her.............while chuckling a little.


My future wife ripped a big fart the first time we had sex... she was horrified. I did the same thing, I laughed hard and hugged her - which made her laugh as well. I think that lasted a few minutes. It was something I thought was endearing about her.


----------



## lovelygirl

TheTruthHurts said:


> @lovelygirl are you affectionate and flirty when you have a new boyfriend? Are you safe and approachable by guys that aren't completely conceited but who might be a little shy? There are many things besides sex that will keep a quality guy interested,but he has to know that sex is at least a possibility.


I'm very flirty with someone I'm dating so no problems with that. But when sex is in the air and I feel it's too soon, I become detached...

As for shy guys, I'm not attracted to them. They turn me off so I don't bother approaching or even starting a conversation with them in the first place.



> Guys love to have their egos stroked and be admired. These are pretty common things that look for in any woman. It makes them feel like they might able to be a one and only for the woman and keeps them on the hook.


I don't stroke their egos all that much though. I don't want to feel as if I'm paying them too many compliments too soon. 



> I think it's ok to start some sexual interaction very early in a relationship so a guy knows he's not getting friendzoned or strung along. If you are a little sexual, then as he pushes you for more (which ALL guys will do) then you can simply say you find him attractive and sexy but just need a bit more time because you don't hop into bed with guys. Many guys (with their double standards) actually want to hear that (followed immediately by sex


Ha! I remember one of the guys I was dating last year, showed his penis, in my car on our 4th date.
We had been exchanging kisses and sexual touches until our 3rd date, then on the 4th one he got in my car by saying he wanted to simply stay with me and while kissing, he wanted me to give him oral.
I said I wasn't ready for that and from that day never heard of him. [I mean...a few days later he started a conversation in whatsapp but I didn't reply back anymore...]
I don't regret it. In my terms, it was offensive and too soon.
So, I don't want to get too sexual with touches the way I did with that guy so that I don't create misconceptions.



> So where do all the good boys go? Try the grocery store. That's a great safe way to meet a guy - everyone eats and independent guys even shop. Loiter around a cute guy and see what he buys. You can always ask "are those any good" to start a conversation. Coffee shops - hang around and size up the regulars. Hardware stores - seriously - look a little helpless and the KISAs will come out to help.


:grin2:
Yeah, I'll try those places and I'll pretend like e need some help!


----------



## TaDor

Before I get into your replies. You call yourself "HD" sexually... how do you know that? Also, it's likely that you come across as LD - and that is something many men do no want.
In the *general* rules of dating. If there is an attraction - sex usually happens around date 3... after 5 dates, one or both parties are in exit mode. (Again - general rule - doesn't apply to everyone, but just how it works out for most) In my later years, the one TIME I took it slow because she is a "Christian girl" and I wanted more than sex... things sputtered out after the 3rd date. I could have had her on my 1 or 2nd date. I was too slow for her because I was not being myself.



lovelygirl said:


> TaDor, thanks for your thoughtful long post.
> I've also thought that after a month of dating with no sex, the guy gets bored. But on the other hand, I don't feel like having sex with someone if I get turned off by certain things he says or does. It's like he shuts my sexual excitement down and sex goes off the list for me.


Ever think that perhaps the guy gets turned off by things you do or say? I've had a woman say something very stupid or insulting on first night meeting and I'm turned off. Ha, one woman said she doesn't like getting oral. So I was done with her in that regard and changed direction to make my exit eventually leave without her noticing. But when you are in a relationship with someone - there is pretty much daily interactions which may be negative - you don't break up with someone from having a bad day. If having a guy who you are already having a sexual relationship with - turns you off by saying something... Perhaps the option is to NOT have boyfriends, just keep it sexual?

Women and men think differently. We trade sex for love and women trade love for sex. Yes, women are horny. And I've been manhandled by women for sex that I didn't know. I'll give advice based on what I know or learned from experience or that of others. This is why I recommended you talk to a sex therapist. I feel that you are OFF on the guys you may want/experience/etc.

Even thou I was sexually active in my early teens. I wasn't so active in my 20s because I wanted something more than just sex. I became shy and lost practice on talking to women. I've had people tell me "She is checking you out" all the time and I didn't know how to handle it - so I didn't talk or notice them. Years of no sex. Very limited dating. But one night I had a thought. I did NOT want to live this way anymore. Some of my geeky friends were 30~40+ yr old sexless or virgins. I started reading mens magazines liked Maxium to get ideas of what women liked and how men talked about women. I went to the gym to lose some pounds and work on my mind. I asked to go out clubing with a few female friends (no sexual attraction) and learn how to drink booze and dance because I had zero experience. It loosened me up, not OVER-THINK things as much. With that I started attracting women. I started talking to them. And I started having sex and getting into relationships.

Your post is concerned about wrong sex acts, or bad sex. Well, that takes practice. You know what ELSE I thought about before I changed myself? "What if I meet the right woman. What am I going to SAY to her if I cannot talk to her? If I have no experiences to work with, I would lose or chase her off. If I am a bad lover, that will likely make her go away".

It took over a year to work this into my head and body. I went from nothing, month after month to having sex, enjoying life, meeting people every weekend. Without those experiences, I wouldn't have ever met my wife, nor the previous girlfriends before her. Heartbreaks suck, but its better to have loved than to not love at all.



> You are kind of an exception to the rule. Usually, people who meet at the bar and have ONS, don't end up in a proper relationship, let alone marriage.
> Does your wife compare with you about the number of partners she had before you? Not that it matters much, though.


As with the date with two women being canceled (we had already done 3somes, this was us going out to a dance club to be social, dance, drink etc) - you DON'T know where you may meet the person who could be "the one". I did NOT go out looking for a wife when I met her. Well, my wife noticed me before I noticed her. She had been going there for months every once in a while - compared to me being a regular. So she always saw me with different women and socializing with lots of people. The night I met her face to face, I kind of made myself go that night. The club was kind of dead that night and she said "hi". I'd like to correct my time from above. It felt like a few hours, but it had to be realistically 4~5 hours later we had sex. I kissed her the first time after 1-2 hours of talking and dancing. It was like no other before her. Eventually, I realized she had some jealousy issues of my sexual past - not by the numbers, but by ranking... "How do I compare". Some were more WILD than her, yes. But she turns me on like no other. She had thought that some things wrong about me because we needed more communication. But yeah, earlier on - she was concerned about doing things the right way - that she was doing right already. 



> It is tiny because most men around me are mostly interested in sex only. When they approach me, it mostly gets sexual before I even think of anything emotional. When I feel that SEX is in the air, I simply leave and end up dating a guy a year when I see that he could be more than a sexual partner.


All MEN who are dating are intrested in SEX. ALL of US. When a woman says "yes" to going out on a date with someone... that means that she has already put SEX as being likely - after all, if you find the man to be a jerk/ repulsive or creepy in anyway - you are not going to be sexually turned on anyway. It's a matter of the guy sealing the deal.
Once the sex is happening, the man's true colors will start to show - he can relax... be more himself... this is the same for women too.

Its understandable you want to see a man as more than a sexual partner... but for men, we don't usually see women as more than a sexual partner until after the sex.



> You make good points here and lay out a fair timeline to manage the relationship/marriage life properly.
> Although, I'm not interested in kids/marriage [for the next 5 years or so]...and I'd be more interested in having a lasting, proper relationship.


That's going to take practice... You don't want to be where you are today 15 years from now - I sure did not. And today I have a child I never knew I would have.
If you are single, be open to dating. ONS turn into marriages quite alot. Go to the gym, work on your mind and body... and also, you may meet a guy there.
As long as you are single, if an attractive man shows interests - go on a date. You won't known unless you go out and meet them.


----------



## lovelygirl

ConanHub said:


> She wasn't a virgin but I was far more experienced than her. We had sex within 10 hours of meeting but that is a dynamic I wouldn't recommend for everyone. Every woman I was ever with sexually had her clothing off and eagerly ready as fast as she could get me to agree.


I'd have sex with a guy so soon if his ALPHA qualities combined with _mutual_ attraction were VERY high. 




> Mrs. Conan was not different in that respect. She just wanted a hot f**k. The difference was how I felt about her. I new the moment I saw her. She took convincing to develop feelings for me. I basically screwed her into submission or sexed her so much and well that she fell for me but she had my heart at first sight.


The underlined is what made the difference. I think it's chemistry. 



> Our sex got better immediately after the first time because we did communicate, me mostly drawing her out to tell me how to please her as I already knew how to be pleased with a woman.


Interesting! She was straight-forward about her sexual pleasure.
(*taking notes*)



> She just wanted a good time and I was willing to give her the best time of her life while trying to win her heart.


She didn't pressure you in any way I guess. So you felt no suffocation to be emotionally connected to her.
(*notes*)



> She was in it for the sex while I was in it for love at the start.


(*duly noted*)



> I became more interested in sex and she became more interested in love with me.
> 
> It will always grow and change because all living things do. Our marriage is alive so our sex and other affections continue to change and grow.
> 
> Self realization and confidence are vital characteristics for anyone to succeed in romance.
> 
> Your internal makeup and development will give you the greatest results.
> 
> If you are strong in who you are, you will attract more than one acceptable mate. When you find him, go for it.
> 
> There are no hard and fast rules. I literally used my physical assets and seduction skills to overwhelm her into my life. No one else stood a chance against me in that arena and I knew it. Not fair?
> 
> I don't care. I successfully seduced her and made her mine using what I had.
> 
> I wasn't rich or successful. I was a heartthrob / bad boy that oozed raw sex appeal.
> 
> If I had money, I would have blown outrageous amounts in my play for her.
> 
> Whatever it took to win her is what I was willing to pay.
> 
> I was poor and sexy so I used what I had.


Beautiful!! Thanks for sharing the details!!! :smile2:


----------



## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> Before I get into your replies. You call yourself "HD" sexually... how do you know that?


Because I pleasure myself every single day, at least 2-3 times a day? 



> Also, it's likely that you come across as LD - and that is something many men do no want.
> In the *general* rules of dating. If there is an attraction - sex usually happens around date 3... after 5 dates, one or both parties are in exit mode. (Again - general rule - doesn't apply to everyone, but just how it works out for most) In my later years, the one TIME I took it slow because she is a "Christian girl" and I wanted more than sex... things sputtered out after the 3rd date. I could have had her on my 1 or 2nd date. I was too slow for her because I was not being myself.


The reason why I don't start sex on the 2nd date is that I don't want it to take a sexual direction only, as well as I don't want the guy to think that I'm too easy for sex and that's it. I don't want to come across as a sex toy for him.



> Ever think that perhaps the guy gets turned off by things you do or say? I've had a woman say something very stupid or insulting on first night meeting and I'm turned off. Ha, one woman said she doesn't like getting oral. So I was done with her in that regard and changed direction to make my exit eventually leave without her noticing. But when you are in a relationship with someone - there is pretty much daily interactions which may be negative - you don't break up with someone from having a bad day.


I don't think I say stupid things and if the guy thinks I do, then it's his problem if he doesn't communicate his concern to me. Whenever I have a problem or something I don't like about the guy, I usually let him know about that.




> As with the date with two women being canceled (we had already done 3somes, this was us going out to a dance club to be social, dance, drink etc) - you DON'T know where you may meet the person who could be "the one". I did NOT go out looking for a wife when I met her. Well, my wife noticed me before I noticed her. She had been going there for months every once in a while - compared to me being a regular. So she always saw me with different women and socializing with lots of people. The night I met her face to face, I kind of made myself go that night. The club was kind of dead that night and she said "hi". I'd like to correct my time from above. It felt like a few hours, but it had to be realistically 4~5 hours later we had sex. I kissed her the first time after 1-2 hours of talking and dancing. It was like no other before her. Eventually, I realized she had some jealousy issues of my sexual past - not by the numbers, but by ranking... "How do I compare". Some were more WILD than her, yes. But she turns me on like no other. She had thought that some things wrong about me because we needed more communication. But yeah, earlier on - she was concerned about doing things the right way - that she was doing right already.


Interesting! 



> All MEN who are dating are intrested in SEX. ALL of US. When a woman says "yes" to going out on a date with someone... that means that she has already put SEX as being likely - after all, if you find the man to be a jerk/ repulsive or creepy in anyway - you are not going to be sexually turned on anyway. It's a matter of the guy sealing the deal.
> *Once the sex is happening, the man's true colors will start to show - he can relax... be more himself... this is the same for women too.*


Not always true. My friend had sex with a guy she always used to like for the past months but never got the chance to talk to him until he approached her first. They had drinks, went for dinner, had sex and he never called her back.
I don't want to go through that.



> Its understandable you want to see a man as more than a sexual partner... but for men, we don't usually see women as more than a sexual partner until after the sex.





> That'sgoing to take practice... at this rate, you may be getting good at it about age 50...
> If you are single, be open to dating. ONS turn into marriages quite alot. Go to the gym, work on your mind and body... and also, you may meet a guy there.
> As long as you are single, if an attractive man shows interests - go on a date. You won't known unless you go out and meet them.


I go to the gym 5 times a week and have been doing so for the past 6 years regularly. I take care of my body and appearance. I have many guy-friends at the gym [with some of them I'm more flirtatious..] 
Now that I'm thinking, I have more guy-friends there than girls, and my gym is VERY popular and has many members. 

At least 14 guys from there have asked me out on a date. Some of them married, others already in a relationship and others simply single. I've gone out with only 2 of them(single ones). With one of them had sex. The others were purely interested in sex by the comments they used to make about my body, (especially the lower body/legs]. 

Out of the guys that have asked me out, one of them still persists we date and possibly have sex. He has been explicit that he wants to lay me and f*ck me like no tomorrow... that he gets hard whenever he sees me and he wishes he could simply rape me if he has to. (Sorry for the details)
I know it's just sex and maybe he wants to get rid of his curiosity with me...so it doesn't impress me much. 

I get lots of attention from guys at my gym and I know most of them look at me sexually. Nothing wrong with that, but not enough for me.


----------



## TX-SC

I have never made fun of any woman I am intimate with. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts

lovelygirl said:


> I'm very flirty with someone I'm dating so no problems with that. But when sex is in the air and I feel it's too soon, I become detached...
> 
> 
> 
> As for shy guys, I'm not attracted to them. They turn me off so I don't bother approaching or even starting a conversation with them in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't stroke their egos all that much though. I don't want to feel as if I'm paying them too many compliments too soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! I remember one of the guys I was dating last year, showed his penis, in my car on our 4th date.
> 
> We had been exchanging kisses and sexual touches until our 3rd date, then on the 4th one he got in my car by saying he wanted to simply stay with me and while kissing, he wanted me to give him oral.
> 
> I said I wasn't ready for that and from that day never heard of him. [I mean...a few days later he started a conversation in whatsapp but I didn't reply back anymore...]
> 
> I don't regret it. In my terms, it was offensive and too soon.
> 
> So, I don't want to get too sexual with touches the way I did with that guy so that I don't create misconceptions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :grin2:
> 
> Yeah, I'll try those places and I'll pretend like e need some help!




Be careful that you're not sending mixed signals. Detaching when sex is in the air is a bad move IMO. To a guy that can mean he's been friendzoned and most guys will walk away because they don't need a hot girl they can't get with as a friend.

Be direct rather than detached. Let them know they aren't being friendzoned

Too many compliments too soon? That's impossible  . Seriously, make sure you're not coming off as too cold.

I grew to know a woman at work about your age and found she really didn't date. She didn't know why she wasn't getting asked out. She was great... but she was raised in a hard urban environment and it showed. I told her she had to SMILE. Be approachable. You say guys hit on you but that at the gym and you've probably got a skin tight outfit on and they're probably horndogs. I don't know how you interact with guys outside the gym but be aware of what you're presenting. 

Most guys will "cut their losses" but that really only means saving face. So if they see you detaching or avoiding intimacy they will dump you before being dumped.

So it could be that you just need to NOT detach but be clear and direct and let them know they're great (yep a compliment) and that you're just not ready but you're interested.




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## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> Because I pleasure myself every single day, at least 2-3 times a day?


That could be from coping with lack of intimacy. Are you considering a sex therapist (The same doc would also talk about relationship & dating issues)?



> The reason why I don't start sex on the 2nd date is that I don't want it to take a sexual direction only, as well as I don't want the guy to think that I'm too easy for sex and that's it. I don't want to come across as a sex toy for him.


Sorry, you won't know that - until he proves it with his actions. A guy telling a gal "I love you, so lets shag" does work with many women. I've never used "love" to get into a woman's panties. 
A friend of mine dated this one woman for a year - about 1~2 times a month. She was "saving herself" and he was interested in her more than just sex. During that time, he likely had sex with 3~6 women a month. I don't know how his dates really go, of course. Look, you WANT sex, he wants sex... there are women who use men for sex too. Put it into perspective, you both get what you want.

You had posted about a guy pulling out his penis on the 4th date. I would agree with you that it was inappropriate for him to do so unless you had shown indications that YOU wanted him to do it.
You also posted much earlier about a friend talking about a woman who was like a dead fish. BOTH Men and women talk... don't take it personally. Some women are BAD at sex, they lay there - I don't know why (I've heard from other guys) but there are guys who are BAD too - pre-ejaculation or they last only 10 seconds then fall asleep. Or they don't go down, or they only go in and out.

What if you dated a guy for a month, then found out he was VERY bad in bed AND only had a 3" pencil thin penis? I HAPPENS.

_((about me having sex with my wife before we dated))_


> Not always true. My friend had sex with a guy she always used to like for the past months but never got the chance to talk to him until he approached her first. They had drinks, went for dinner, had sex and he never called her back. I don't want to go through that.


I didn't say it was always true. You can date a guy for 5 months, then finally have sex - then he dumps you. It could be because of bad sex or it was just a notch on his belt. There are players, there are lovers, there are all kinds of men and women out there. With dating experience, you kind of learn how to spot these signs. There are guys out there, who are straight up "I'm looking for NSA or casual dating" - which is a start. I have ZERO disrespect for any woman I ever had sex with. I don't look at them any lower for that. If they were stupid, a racist, a criminal - that would make me lose respect for them. Even when a woman was BAD at sex, I didn't insult them... I didn't return for seconds.

You can't control what someone else does. That guy who dated your friend. Maybe he didn't like her in bed - who knows.



> I go to the gym 5 times a week and have been doing so for the past 6 years regularly. I take care of my body and appearance. I have many guy-friends at the gym [with some of them I'm more flirtatious..] at least 14 guys from there have asked me out on a date. Some of them married, others already in a relationship and others simply single. I've gone out with only 2 of them(single ones). With one of them had sex.


Cool. And points for not dating married ones. I check out the nice looking ones at the gym - I usually then think "Wish my wife was at the gym" - I've never asked for a date at the gym... Don't poop where you eat type of thing pretty much. Also, I'm there for the workout.

It'll always come down to this... you want to be in a relationship and have intimate sex... you're going to have to go hunting. Masturbation doesn't make you a master of sex.


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## bandit.45

lovelygirl said:


> Hiii Band!!
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love such man! I wouldn't mind taking charge too, but I'd love him to be in charge of the bedroom and I'd happily come long with him.
> 
> Why do you ask?


Well, maybe this is the issue. Sometimes a wife needs her husband to lead in the bedroom.  I wonder if this may be some of your frustration.


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## bandit.45

lovelygirl said:


> *Well..farting is another thing. If I farted during sex,* I would laugh too. As it's kind of embarrassing and funny at the same time...so I'd laugh at myself as well. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But making fun with OTHERS for a bad bed performance is totally different from your example. If my guy made fun of me behind my back with his guy-friends, then I'd be offended ..especially if I performed bad oral on him.


Queefing....


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## Steve1000

lovelygirl said:


> Firs off, I don't have sex with all the guys that I date.
> 
> Second off, the sex comes after a month or two months of dating.
> 
> Third, some already leave because they can't wait a month or two to have sex.


You wrote that the guys you have dated are mostly interested in just having sex. If they are dating you for one and two months prior to sex, then that doesn't seem to be the case.


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## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> That could be from coping with lack of intimacy. Are you considering a sex therapist (The same doc would also talk about relationship & dating issues)?


I don't know if we have any sex therapist here Albania. So I don't know if I'll see anyone anytime soon.


> Sorry, you won't know that - until he proves it with his actions. A guy telling a gal "I love you, so lets shag" does work with many women. I've never used "love" to get into a woman's panties.
> A friend of mine dated this one woman for a year - about 1~2 times a month. She was "saving herself" and he was interested in her more than just sex. During that time, he likely had sex with 3~6 women a month. I don't know how his dates really go, of course. Look, you WANT sex, he wants sex... there are women who use men for sex too. Put it into perspective, you both get what you want.


Living in small country like Albania, having sex just for fun makes the word be spread all over the country and I wouldn't want that reputation over here. If I were to live in the States, I wouldn't mind it maybe.



> You had posted about a guy pulling out his penis on the 4th date. I would agree with you that it was inappropriate for him to do so unless you had shown indications that YOU wanted him to do it.


We had been making out a few times. He used to do some groping on me in public places. Although I like the sexual touch, I prefer it in private. He thought we'd do it privately in my car, which by my standards was not the right time.



> You also posted much earlier about a friend talking about a woman who was like a dead fish. BOTH Men and women talk... don't take it personally. Some women are BAD at sex, they lay there - I don't know why (I've heard from other guys) but there are guys who are BAD too - pre-ejaculation or they last only 10 seconds then fall asleep. Or they don't go down, or they only go in and out.


Yeah, I agree. Just like there are bad women in bend, there are bad guy as well. 



> What if you dated a guy for a month, then found out he was VERY bad in bed AND only had a 3" pencil thin penis? I HAPPENS.


True but dating for a month is not a waste time IMO. I'd say 4 months would be a wasted time.



> I didn't say it was always true. You can date a guy for 5 months, then finally have sex - then he dumps you. It could be because of bad sex or it was just a notch on his belt. There are players, there are lovers, there are all kinds of men and women out there. With dating experience, you kind of learn how to spot these signs. There are guys out there, who are straight up "I'm looking for NSA or casual dating" - which is a start. I have ZERO disrespect for any woman I ever had sex with. I don't look at them any lower for that. If they were stupid, a racist, a criminal - that would make me lose respect for them. Even when a woman was BAD at sex, I didn't insult them... I didn't return for seconds.
> 
> You can't control what someone else does. That guy who dated your friend. Maybe he didn't like her in bed - who knows.


Agreed.

Cool. And points for not dating married ones. I check out the nice looking ones at the gym - I usually then think "Wish my wife was at the gym" - I've never asked for a date at the gym... Don't poop where you eat type of thing pretty much. Also, I'm there for the workout.



> It'll always come down to this... you want to be in a relationship and have intimate sex... you're going to have to go hunting. Masturbation doesn't make you a master of sex.


I didn't imply I'm a master of sex. I was just saying that I have strong sexual desires which I release through self-pleasure. It's a relief to know that at least I'm not LD.


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## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> I don't know if we have any sex therapist here Albania. So I don't know if I'll see anyone anytime soon.


With a population of 2.7 Million people... there are therapists. You are going to need to find them the same way you would find other types of doctors.



> Living in small country like Albania, having sex just for fun makes the word be spread all over the country and I wouldn't want that reputation over here. If I were to live in the States, I wouldn't mind it maybe.


Hmmm so guys can sleep around and not get into trouble? Unless you are having sex in public on the back of an open-truck... who is going to know? Even in small towns with a few thousand people in the states - people don't know the sex lives of everyone... I bet if you loaded up tinder (to LOOK) - you'll find lots of GUYS looking for guys... 



> We had been making out a few times. He used to do some groping on me in public places. Although I like the sexual touch, I prefer it in private. He thought we'd do it privately in my car, which by my standards was not the right time.


That is fine... your call. Car sex is kind of fun - but might as well make the first time a bed... or at least a couch. He can pay for a hotel room 



> I didn't imply I'm a master of sex. I was just saying that I have strong sexual desires which I release through self-pleasure. It's a relief to know that at least I'm not LD.


Hence the therapist or books on sexuality would be helpful. 
Start here: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_...+women&ie=UTF8&qid=1488859415&rnid=2941120011

(US website, so locate books for local sources - or order international)


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## SilentLucidity

Here is the thing ... if performing oral on your partner isn't even more enjoyable to you and turning you on, then your not going to be any good at it and be able to read his body and the signals it's giving you when something you did feels real good. 
Men can tell when ladies are giving them a BJ because they feel like they have to and not because they want to. 

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## DonaldDuck666

Any guy who'd make fun of a woman for something that happened (or didn't) during sex is an a-hole. You should never worry about that sort of thing. And if a guy DID make fun of you, a swift knee to the nads will end that.


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## MattMatt

uhtred said:


> I am of the firm belief that all that matters for sex is a honest desire to please. What specific techniques people want vary a lot anyway, so no amount of knowledge is going to make someone a perfect lover. If your partner is also a good lover, then they will guide / hint you towards what they enjoy while paying attention to any hints that you give about what you would like.
> 
> There are obnoxious people out there who will complain. All I can say is that if it happens, be glad you learned about them early in the relationship.
> 
> Anyone who complains about a partners sexual technique deserves to be shown the door - or window if its closer and your not above the 3rd floor.


A MAN wouldn't. But a kid? He might.


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## Juice

I didn't read everything, but as others have mentioned be confident, enthusiastic, and have fun. 

I don't know where you are from but most guys will split if you don't give them some P.

Go out and have fun and have sex! You haven't had any since 2014 it's time to knock the dust off that. 

As far as sleeping around don't let these people on TAM tell you that it's not okay. Just make sure you use common sense and stay protected. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## alexm

lovelygirl said:


> I have communicated this to the guy and they probably took it as offensive and decided to leave. I wanted to be sincere by letting them know that oral is something I'd do in a stable / emotional relationship and if I don't see that emotional connection with the guy, I'm not giving any oral. I know it could be a deal breaker, but I'm not changing my standards unless a guy is worth of me doing so.


My 2 cents - I think this is off-putting for a guy not because you won't give oral right away, but because you're basically telling him he's not worthy of you giving him oral at that moment, and that he has to work for it. But actual sex is totally on the table in the meantime.

I get that you don't date or have sex a lot, so you don't "sleep around". But as you've said yourself, you seem to wind up dating these guys that, in your words, only want sex. Well, the reality is that the degree of sexual interest is often quite higher than normal at the very beginning of a relationship. The initial attraction is there, and yes, it's an important part of a relationship for most people, therefore they want to see if there's a match in that area, as well as many others.

Yes, some men (and women) are only interested in the sex. My advice - don't sleep with them until _you're_ comfortable they're interested in other things. Or better, don't sleep with them until you're comfortable enough to give them oral sex.

You'll avoid having that awkward conversation about not giving oral sex to a guy until there's an 'emotional connection', which will likely only confuse him. It would confuse me. I wouldn't understand why somebody would sleep with me, yet not perform oral sex until they trust me.

It's a balancing act. You're saying one thing, but acting in a different way, IMO. You want that emotional connection with a man, and you want a man who's not simply interested in sex. So take time to develop that emotional connection first. If they clearly can't wait til you do, then move on.

Also, date more  Instead of dating once per year, go out on as many dates as you can manage. But sleep with them only if/when you're comfortable. I find it hard to believe you'll have much success finding a long-term partner if you only date one guy a year


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## alexm

lovelygirl said:


> "Random" would not be the perfect word for my situation. I don't have one night stands and I don't sleep with anyone that comes my way.
> 
> But as I said previously in my posts, I should consider changing the places I go to. Bars, clubs, gym...are places where guys are also very self-centered and think about their pleasure most of the times. I don't want to judge as not everyone is the same, but I could be attracting to the wrong type of guys in those places.


I totally agree with this! There are a few people on TAM who I know met at bars or whatever, and wound up getting married, but by and large, these are places where people go to hook up.

A general rule of thumb (for women, mainly, and this is speaking as a guy) - if you're at one of the above mentioned places and a guy approaches you, he's almost certainly not looking for an LTR or marriage. He's probably looking to take you home that night, but barring that, at least get your number for some future good times. If this includes going on a date or two in order to get that, most dudes will accept that (and probably keep hunting that night for something, as well... And if they're unlucky, well, at least they got your number, so that's something). That's just the way it is. Just because you don't go home with them right away doesn't mean they won't put in a little work later on, should you have shown them some interest.

I wouldn't put much stock in finding "the one" in one of those locations. It absolutely happens, yes, but we're all old enough to know that those places are used for other types of relationships.

I would hazard a guess and say that the majority of LTR's and eventual marriages are formed through ones social circles, primarily. Online dating and the workplace are right up there, too. And online dating notwithstanding, most are formed over time.


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## arbitrator

lovelygirl said:


> So..in reference to another thread in the "Sex" department where I posted, I thought I'd ask men (women are welcomed as well) over something that has been bothering me lately. I used to be more careless at a younger age...but now something has changed...
> 
> I'm 29, haven't really had any stable (or lasting) relationship. I've dated guys for 1-2 months and then it was over. The only lasting relationship that I had was 9 months (but with no sex at all and it was my first relationship when I was around 22).
> 
> With some of the guys that I've dated, I've had an OK sex [as I wasn't in love with any of them and I didn't feel comfortable.] These guys were interested ONLY in sex and given that I've always wanted more than that, I stopped seeing them. Also, I wouldn't give them any oral sex as I didn't consider them emotionally close to me. I see giving/receiving oral VERY intimate and I'd like to share it with someone that I'm in an exclusive relationship. So, out of all the guys that I've dated, I've given oral only to one guy...a couple of years ago. _(Don't ask me why I date guys who want just sex. I actually want a stable relationship, but for some reason I always end up with the wrong guys... :frown2 _
> 
> I think I am HD and If I could, I'd have no problem having sex everyday, I like to experiment with positions, I like to talk about sex and do things very openly with my partner.
> 
> The only problem that I've been having lately is what the guy might think of how I perform in sex with him. Am I good/bad? What he thinks....etc.
> A few months ago I dated a guy who was into *BSDM*. He said he was very experienced in this type of sex but I was hesitant to have sex with him in the first place, as I didn't feel confident I'd satisfy him enough, starting even from oral [which for him was the minimum].
> I was afraid he'd make fun of me for not performing right in the bedroom so I let him go at all. We went out several times and he was expecting us to try things, but then I didn't feel comfortable and ended things with him.
> 
> Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age. Plus, I'm tired of meaningless dating. I want something real.
> I swear, if I had a stable partner, I wouldn't mind giving him any kind of pleasure, although I know I need some more practice.
> 
> Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite?
> Did you make fun of her (in your mind?)
> Did you feel disappointed?
> Did you comment it with your friends?
> 
> These are my concerns. Probably, you'd make fun of them too haha..


*Sex is foremostly about communication with each other, learning about each other's bodies and sexual psyches, in helping to make all of the aspects of participative sex with your lover so much more enriching and meaningful!

Unless their occasional chiding is done within the bounds of a reciprocating, loving, jesting and teasing manner, whether be they a man or a woman, or HD, MD, or LD, there is absolutely no real basis for it in a mutually loving relationship!*


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## Diana7

lovelygirl said:


> So..in reference to another thread in the "Sex" department where I posted, I thought I'd ask men (women are welcomed as well) over something that has been bothering me lately. I used to be more careless at a younger age...but now something has changed...
> 
> I'm 29, haven't really had any stable (or lasting) relationship. I've dated guys for 1-2 months and then it was over. The only lasting relationship that I had was 9 months (but with no sex at all and it was my first relationship when I was around 22).
> 
> With some of the guys that I've dated, I've had an OK sex [as I wasn't in love with any of them and I didn't feel comfortable.] These guys were interested ONLY in sex and given that I've always wanted more than that, I stopped seeing them. Also, I wouldn't give them any oral sex as I didn't consider them emotionally close to me. I see giving/receiving oral VERY intimate and I'd like to share it with someone that I'm in an exclusive relationship. So, out of all the guys that I've dated, I've given oral only to one guy...a couple of years ago. _(Don't ask me why I date guys who want just sex. I actually want a stable relationship, but for some reason I always end up with the wrong guys... :frown2 _
> 
> I think I am HD and If I could, I'd have no problem having sex everyday, I like to experiment with positions, I like to talk about sex and do things very openly with my partner.
> 
> The only problem that I've been having lately is what the guy might think of how I perform in sex with him. Am I good/bad? What he thinks....etc.
> A few months ago I dated a guy who was into *BSDM*. He said he was very experienced in this type of sex but I was hesitant to have sex with him in the first place, as I didn't feel confident I'd satisfy him enough, starting even from oral [which for him was the minimum].
> I was afraid he'd make fun of me for not performing right in the bedroom so I let him go at all. We went out several times and he was expecting us to try things, but then I didn't feel comfortable and ended things with him.
> 
> Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age. Plus, I'm tired of meaningless dating. I want something real.
> I swear, if I had a stable partner, I wouldn't mind giving him any kind of pleasure, although I know I need some more practice.
> 
> Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite?
> Did you make fun of her (in your mind?)
> Did you feel disappointed?
> Did you comment it with your friends?
> 
> These are my concerns. Probably, you'd make fun of them too haha..


Please please please stop dating men like that. Try and find a guy with good moral values and integrity who will treat you with love and respect. 
If you tell any guy that you will not have sex with them until/if things get very serious, then you will get rid of the bad ones and keep the good. 
When you meet the love of your life, you wont even have to worry about what he thinks, you will love each other and whatever you do with be out of love and acceptance.
Dont do anything that you are not completely comfortable with and save sex for when you are truly in love and committed. Don't let yourself be used and taken advantage of.


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## TaDor

There are real expectations in life. Every person has a right to their own bodies (well, they should anyway) - but you can't expect everyone to go along with it, when it comes to dating.

Nature made us different. Men express love by wanting to have sex with you. Women give sex when they feel there is love from another person.

lovelygirl, have you attempted or started seeing a relationship & sexual therapist? Again: I think its wrong for some of those guys demand a BJ from you the way you have discribed... sure, some women do that. But I feel that you are imposing rules against yourself... You are HD, but you keep guys at a distance until you think they want more than just sex from you.

When you make a GUY work that much to get to 3rd or home base - that is too much work. It's been over two years since you LAST had sex. But you want sex. So you are hurting yourself.
If I was a guy and knew its been 2+ years - I'd be cautious. Like any skills, doing things help you get better. Having limited sex with others may hurt your quality and quantity. A guy's brain "What if I love this woman, but she only allows me to MAKE love to her once every 2-6 months? What if she'll only be sexual for the first few months or unless we get married - then its downhill from there?" It happens.

By putting a guy off for 1~3 months to "test him", you are hurting his desire for you. Look at your past, HOW successful are you with a LTR with a man? If it worked, then your last few guys you had sex with - would have lasted years. But instead, those relationships have died in a few months. Thus, I highly recommend you get help from a professional.

Yes, I had sex a few hours after I kissed my wife the first night a met her. Guess what I remember the most from that night? Was it the 2 hours of hard sex? Was it making out in the club? Was it the playing with her body while I drove to my place? Was it the blowjob in the car? No. None of that. What I remember the most, after all these years... was looking into her eyes and giving her a passionate and real KISS that she returned. That is it... burned into my brain.

All guys have sex on the brain. If they are a player or get tired of doing the work - they'll some around if they have nothing else going on - use you for practice, with no expectations for sex. There is no way you are going to know. You could have sex with someone for months and not know their true attentions. Also, by keeping yourself CLOSE OFF from them - by your own choice - even thou you desire them... you are not being true to yourself either, are you? You are testing someone else.


----------



## TaDor

Somewhere - there was an article I read about a professional burlesque dancer - who was in her late 40s - maybe 50yrs old. A virgin. She is saving herself for marriage. Her husband must be of a certain character and must make a 6 figure salary or more. She will die a virgin.

If a guy is a millionaire, 50 years old and single. He's going to go fishing for women in their 20s~30s. He won't waste 3 seconds with someone like her.


----------



## Diana7

TaDor said:


> There are real expectations in life. Every person has a right to their own bodies (well, they should anyway) - but you can't expect everyone to go along with it, when it comes to dating.
> 
> Nature made us different. Men express love by wanting to have sex with you. Women give sex when they feel there is love from another person.
> 
> lovelygirl, have you attempted or started seeing a relationship & sexual therapist? Again: I think its wrong for some of those guys demand a BJ from you the way you have discribed... sure, some women do that. But I feel that you are imposing rules against yourself... You are HD, but you keep guys at a distance until you think they want more than just sex from you.
> 
> When you make a GUY work that much to get to 3rd or home base - that is too much work. It's been over two years since you LAST had sex. But you want sex. So you are hurting yourself.
> If I was a guy and knew its been 2+ years - I'd be cautious. Like any skills, doing things help you get better. Having limited sex with others may hurt your quality and quantity. A guy's brain "What if I love this woman, but she only allows me to MAKE love to her once every 2-6 months? What if she'll only be sexual for the first few months or unless we get married - then its downhill from there?" It happens.
> 
> By putting a guy off for 1~3 months to "test him", you are hurting his desire for you. Look at your past, HOW successful are you with a LTR with a man? If it worked, then your last few guys you had sex with - would have lasted years. But instead, those relationships have died in a few months. Thus, I highly recommend you get help from a professional.
> 
> Yes, I had sex a few hours after I kissed my wife the first night a met her. Guess what I remember the most from that night? Was it the 2 hours of hard sex? Was it making out in the club? Was it the playing with her body while I drove to my place? Was it the blowjob in the car? No. None of that. What I remember the most, after all these years... was looking into her eyes and giving her a passionate and real KISS that she returned. That is it... burned into my brain.
> 
> All guys have sex on the brain. If they are a player or get tired of doing the work - they'll some around if they have nothing else going on - use you for practice, with no expectations for sex. There is no way you are going to know. You could have sex with someone for months and not know their true attentions. Also, by keeping yourself CLOSE OFF from them - by your own choice - even thou you desire them... you are not being true to yourself either, are you? You are testing someone else.


I couldn't disagree with this more. If a man isn't prepared to wait just a few weeks/months for sex to see if the relationship lasts and gets stronger then what does that say about him and how he sees women and relationships. I would have no respect for such a man and would know that he wasn't the man for me or worth wasting my time on. 
If I met a man who had been 2 years since he had had sex, I would think, hurray, a man who doesn't sleep around. I would have so much more respect for him.
Many of us still want a close loving relationship before we think of sex.


----------



## Diana7

TaDor said:


> Somewhere - there was an article I read about a professional burlesque dancer - who was in her late 40s - maybe 50yrs old. A virgin. She is saving herself for marriage. Her husband must be of a certain character and must make a 6 figure salary or more. She will die a virgin.
> 
> If a guy is a millionaire, 50 years old and single. He's going to go fishing for women in their 20s~30s. He won't waste 3 seconds with someone like her.


I admire her, apart from her wanting a 6 figure salary.


----------



## Juice

You can't meet a guy at the gym?

I agree with TaDor. 3-5 dates...after that sex.

Guys want sex, and putting way to much effort in can be costly. Going to dinner, movies, and all that other fun stuff.

A long time ago I played the nice guy role and waited to have sex with this girl. Over a course of 4-6 month I wasted hours of time and money. We had sex and it was horrible, and we never talked again. If we didn't beat around the bush (pun intended...lol) and had sex earlier we both could've saved time and my money.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Personal

lovelygirl said:


> So..in reference to another thread in the "Sex" department where I posted, I thought I'd ask men (women are welcomed as well) over something that has been bothering me lately. I used to be more careless at a younger age...but now something has changed...
> 
> I'm 29, haven't really had any stable (or lasting) relationship. I've dated guys for 1-2 months and then it was over. The only lasting relationship that I had was 9 months (but with no sex at all and it was my first relationship when I was around 22).
> 
> With some of the guys that I've dated, I've had an OK sex [as I wasn't in love with any of them and I didn't feel comfortable.] These guys were interested ONLY in sex and given that I've always wanted more than that, I stopped seeing them. Also, I wouldn't give them any oral sex as I didn't consider them emotionally close to me. I see giving/receiving oral VERY intimate and I'd like to share it with someone that I'm in an exclusive relationship. So, out of all the guys that I've dated, I've given oral only to one guy...a couple of years ago. _(Don't ask me why I date guys who want just sex. I actually want a stable relationship, but for some reason I always end up with the wrong guys... :frown2 _


If the sex isn't doing it for you, or the sex is uncomfortable or you weren't into them or attracted to them. Then the best thing you can do given those experiences, is just let them go.

If you don't want to offer oral sex absent sexual exclusivity, then don't offer oral sex.

As to picking the wrong men, check your picker.

If you keep choosing the same thing, you will keep getting the same thing.



lovelygirl said:


> I think I am HD and If I could, I'd have no problem having sex everyday, I like to experiment with positions, I like to talk about sex and do things very openly with my partner.
> 
> The only problem that I've been having lately is what the guy might think of how I perform in sex with him. Am I good/bad? What he thinks....etc.


Instead of worrying about how you will perform, perhaps you will be better served by wanting sex for your own pleasure.



lovelygirl said:


> A few months ago I dated a guy who was into *BSDM*. He said he was very experienced in this type of sex but I was hesitant to have sex with him in the first place, as I didn't feel confident I'd satisfy him enough, starting even from oral [which for him was the minimum].
> I was afraid he'd make fun of me for not performing right in the bedroom so I let him go at all. We went out several times and he was expecting us to try things, but then I didn't feel comfortable and ended things with him.


If you weren't comfortable, then ending it was the best thing. If it doesn't feel right, it's not likely you're going to enjoy it that much.



lovelygirl said:


> Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age. Plus, I'm tired of meaningless dating. I want something real.
> I swear, if I had a stable partner, I wouldn't mind giving him any kind of pleasure, although I know I need some more practice.


If you let your fears overwhelm you, you might remain sexless. On the other hand if you overcome your fear and seek what you desire, you are far more likely to remove the inexperience that feeds some of your fears.

When it comes to sharing sex, comparing yourself to others is a fools errand. Even if you do some of the same things together, while ever all of us have our own idiosyncrasies. Your shared sexual experiences will remain unique to you and your respective partners.

If you pick men that want you and what you want, you are likely to get a stable partner. That said you should not forget that your sexual pleasure, is just as important as the pleasure of your sexual partners. So I encourage you not to settle for less.

That said if you just want to have sex with someone for pleasures sake you should do exactly that, while keeping your pleasure at the front of your mind.



lovelygirl said:


> Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite?


No I've never presumed any woman is anything at all in bed. The nice thing about sharing sex with a woman in the beginning of any sexual relationship, is discovering them and finding out if you work well together.



lovelygirl said:


> Did you make fun of her (in your mind?)


I've never made fun of any woman in my mind, nor have I ever thought poorly of her with respect to having sex with me or anyone else for that matter. Regardless of our sexual compatibility, how well we fit and or how skilled they were.



lovelygirl said:


> Did you feel disappointed?


On some occasions I have had sex with women that I have found to be sexually disappointing for various reasons. Yet that didn't mean they weren't special, or even bad at sex, all it meant was we we weren't a good sexual match.



lovelygirl said:


> Did you comment it with your friends?


No I haven't made any comment to friends about any women sexually that I have been with (it's not their business), except in this space here with no mention of their names as an anony-moose poster.



lovelygirl said:


> These are my concerns. Probably, you'd make fun of them too haha..


Not making fun at all.


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## Personal

Diana7 said:


> I couldn't disagree with this more. If a man isn't prepared to wait just a few weeks/months for sex to see if the relationship lasts and gets stronger then what does that say about him and how he sees women and relationships.


It says that sex is important to him, he enjoys it and is not inclined to waste his time when pursuing sexual relationships.



Diana7 said:


> I would have no respect for such a man and would know that he wasn't the man for me or worth wasting my time on.


I think it's a waste of time to share my love with someone who is sexually incompatible, doesn't connect well sexually, doesn't fit right and or is rubbish at sex.



Diana7 said:


> If I met a man who had been 2 years since he had had sex, I would think, hurray, a man who doesn't sleep around. I would have so much more respect for him.


I don't think there's anything wrong in adults not having sex for a long time, just as I don't think there's anything wrong in adults having frequent sex with a smorgasbord of consenting sexual partners.



Diana7 said:


> Many of us still want a close loving relationship before we think of sex.


On the other hand many of us want close loving sexual relationships that feature a kaleidoscope of tremendous sex. Which is why we share sex during the beginning of a sexual relationship, lest we waste our time falling in love with someone who does nothing for us sexually.

In addition to the desire to vet people sexually, in my experience if a potential sexual relationship doesn't feature sex early on, it always ends up becoming no more than a platonic relationship. Which negates the whole point of pursuing a potential sexual relationship. So considering what has worked for me versus what hasn't, sexual relationships that see sex occur early on are the only kind I will ever bother pursuing.


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## TaDor

Diana7 said:


> I admire her, apart from her wanting a 6 figure salary.


She has the right to be a virgin... no issue. It's silly and sad FOR her that she has likely thrown away her life because of a false self-value. She wants to get married, be in love, etc - but goes about it quite wrong. So she has no love, no children, no nothing... but she only wants THE BEST. He must be a certain way, exact values with a big wallet. So she's about 50yrs old - has nothing. She pays her bills, but by all means - she'll never get her hooks into a millionaire. She is way past her prime.


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## Diana7

Personal said:


> It says that sex is important to him, he enjoys it and is not inclined to waste his time when pursuing sexual relationships.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's a waste of time to share my love with someone who is sexually incompatible, doesn't connect well sexually, doesn't fit right and or is rubbish at sex.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there's anything wrong in adults not having sex for a long time, just as I don't think there's anything wrong in adults having frequent sex with a smorgasbord of consenting sexual partners.
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand many of us want close loving sexual relationships that feature a kaleidoscope of tremendous sex. Which is why we share sex during the beginning of a sexual relationship, lest we waste our time falling in love with someone who does nothing for us sexually.
> 
> In addition to the desire to vet people sexually, in my experience if a potential sexual relationship doesn't feature sex early on, it always ends up becoming no more than a platonic relationship. Which negates the whole point of pursuing a potential sexual relationship. So considering what has worked for me versus what hasn't, sexual relationships that see sex occur early on are the only kind I will ever bother pursuing.


I know so many good happy marriages where the couple didnt have sex for ages or not till they married. Sex can be worked on once you have the right partner. Its not all about sex at the beginning and how 'good or 'bad' that was, its what it can become with time and sharing and effort. My husband has never had sex outside his first marriage and our marriage. I love and respect him for that and we have a great sex life which gets better and better. If he had pressured me for sex early I would have left. In fact I wouldn't have dated him at all if he he had had many partners.


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## Diana7

TaDor said:


> She has the right to be a virgin... no issue. It's silly and sad FOR her that she has likely thrown away her life because of a false self-value. She wants to get married, be in love, etc - but goes about it quite wrong. So she has no love, no children, no nothing... but she only wants THE BEST. He must be a certain way, exact values with a big wallet. So she's about 50yrs old - has nothing. She pays her bills, but by all means - she'll never get her hooks into a millionaire. She is way past her prime.


Not all men are obsessed with younger women.


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## TaDor

Diana7 said:


> I couldn't disagree with this more. If a man isn't prepared to wait just a few weeks/months for sex to see if the relationship lasts and gets stronger then what does that say about him and how he sees women and relationships. I would have no respect for such a man and would know that he wasn't the man for me or worth wasting my time on.
> If I met a man who had been 2 years since he had had sex, I would think, hurray, a man who doesn't sleep around. I would have so much more respect for him.
> Many of us still want a close loving relationship before we think of sex.


The OP, lovelygirl : is a 29yr old woman - who hasn't had much luck in the romance dept. Apparently is quite attractive - but not able to get what she wants. Dating a few times every year or so is NOT how you go about getting into a serious relationship. Most men in their 20s~30s *ARE NOT* going to wait 2~3 months to get laid. There *IS* no way for her to know they are not getting laid on the side - which is more likely than not. If she views sex as a dirty thing - she'll remain stuck. You seem to think that its your way or no way. I don't agree with your opinion - but it may work for some people... and by all it means it does.

Most women will not touch a man who hasn't gotten laid a long time - much less a 40yr old virgin. His behaviour will tend to be that of a novice - and will not score dates much less get laid. If that is the kind of man a woman wants - she should advertise that "Wanted: Virgin male 27~37 years old" or something.


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## Diana7

TaDor said:


> The OP, lovelygirl : is a 29yr old woman - who hasn't had much luck in the romance dept. Apparently is quite attractive - but not able to get what she wants. Dating a few times every year or so is NOT how you go about getting into a serious relationship. Most men in their 20s~30s *ARE NOT* going to wait 2~3 months to get laid. There *IS* no way for her to know they are not getting laid on the side - which is more likely than not. If she views sex as a dirty thing - she'll remain stuck. You seem to think that its your way or no way. I don't agree with your opinion - but it may work for some people... and by all it means it does.
> 
> Most women will not touch a man who hasn't gotten laid a long time - much less a 40yr old virgin. His behaviour will tend to be that of a novice - and will not score dates much less get laid. If that is the kind of man a woman wants - she should advertise that "Wanted: Virgin male 27~37 years old" or something.


And many women wouldnt want a man who had slept with many women.


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## TaDor

Diana7 said:


> I know so many good happy marriages where the couple didnt have sex for ages or not till they married. Sex can be worked on once you have the right partner. Its not all about sex at the beginning and how 'good or 'bad' that was, its what it can become with time and sharing and effort. My husband has never had sex outside his first marriage and our marriage. I love and respect him for that and we have a great sex life which gets better and better. If he had pressured me for sex early I would have left. In fact I wouldn't have dated him at all if he he had had many partners.


I know a lot of happy marriages where couples didn't wait.. and again - you are on our 2nd marriage. So if your rules about sex and marriage apply - then you never would have gotten a divorced the first time. "Sex can be worked on afterwards"? What if that is not possible? Skipping sex is part of the vetting process. And if a person only had sex with 1-2 people, how would they KNOW good sex from bad sex? More women, than men - get married into bad sexual relationships. What if he's bad at it? What if he wants oral sex, but would never go down on a nasty woman? What if he wants anal... done to him? What if his penis is TOO big? 11" of man meat? Or what if he has a 2" pencil? What if she looks odd down there? What if he doesn't like the shape of her nipples? What if he has a right-nut that looks very strange or his penis points to the left and is uncut - so it punches her in a spot that hurts? But perhaps for another woman - would not have been an issue? What if either of them has an aroma that doesn't work? I particularly like the smell of my wife's sweat.

You can have sex without being pressured... why should expressing love through sexual interaction be acts of aggression?



> Not all men are obsessed with younger women.


Most very rich people are... look no further than the Orange cheater thing - who spoke of 10~12 yr old girls as sexual objects.

But in general - men are older than the women they are with for various reasons. We mature later, more stable, have a car, have more experience than just sticking it in, etc.


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## TaDor

Diana7 said:


> And many women wouldnt want a man who had slept with many women.


You'd be surprised... Players make cheaters out of many married women. 
Oddly... Many women like a man who is handsome and skilled enough to get another woman but stays with them.


----------



## TaDor

I forgot to add this, lovelygirl.

Remember how I said that I had sex with my wife a few hours after meeting her, about 6 years ago? And that to this day, thinking about that first kiss still gives both of us a goosebumps.
For the next few days after that first night - I was falling in love with her. I wasn't constantly thinking about sex with her - yet we both did some sexting. There was a lot more than just that. So during those days, I wasn't putting tons of thought into WHAT we did in the bedroom that first night. I was interested in her as a whole person. It took a while for her to believe that too or for me to admit it to myself. So yeah, we got married a few months after we met - which is against my own rules.

One of the problems with the "waiting game to prove you want me more than just sex" - is that you also put pressure on the guy - that YOU have a plan to get married, kids, etc. An agenda. Not attractive. Starting out casual with openness to go further - is less pressure on the both of you. When you keep a guy at bay for a few months, you're not seeing the true him for quite a while. He'll be at his "best behavior" for all those dates... then after finally having sex... is when it goes nowhere, and you wasted more of your time than his.

Having this "I think I love him. But will wait for 8 dates before he gets a breast feel, and 16+ dates before intercourse to prove he loves me." rarely actually works. I mean, yeah - it works at best with teenagers or people in near their 70s. But you're neither.


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> I know so many good happy marriages where the couple didnt have sex for ages or not till they married. Sex can be worked on once you have the right partner. Its not all about sex at the beginning and how 'good or 'bad' that was, its what it can become with time and sharing and effort. My husband has never had sex outside his first marriage and our marriage. I love and respect him for that and we have a great sex life which gets better and better. If he had pressured me for sex early I would have left. In fact I wouldn't have dated him at all if he he had had many partners.


Just as I know many good happy marriages where the couples did have sex just after meeting one another and through the first few dates. Likewise abstaining from sex for a long time or waiting until marriage also sees relationship dissolution, divorce and or misery.

As to sex lives getting better, many do just as many don't.

I can't imagine it would be much fun being a vanilla bride or groom, who has saved themselves for marriage. Only to discover that their partner wants to give them a golden shower.

Likewise I've never pressured any woman for sex either. As it turned out for me there was no shortage of women who offered me sex or asked me to have sex with them. So if I wanted sex, all I had to usually do was just say yes and then act accordingly.

What works for you wouldn't work for me and many others, just as what works for me wouldn't work for you and many others.

Isn't it terrific that we both live in countries where I can't impose my sexual norms upon you, just like you can't impose your sexual norms on me?


----------



## 269370

lovelygirl said:


> So..in reference to another thread in the "Sex" department where I posted, I thought I'd ask men (women are welcomed as well) over something that has been bothering me lately. I used to be more careless at a younger age...but now something has changed...
> 
> I'm 29, haven't really had any stable (or lasting) relationship. I've dated guys for 1-2 months and then it was over. The only lasting relationship that I had was 9 months (but with no sex at all and it was my first relationship when I was around 22).
> 
> With some of the guys that I've dated, I've had an OK sex [as I wasn't in love with any of them and I didn't feel comfortable.] These guys were interested ONLY in sex and given that I've always wanted more than that, I stopped seeing them. Also, I wouldn't give them any oral sex as I didn't consider them emotionally close to me. I see giving/receiving oral VERY intimate and I'd like to share it with someone that I'm in an exclusive relationship. So, out of all the guys that I've dated, I've given oral only to one guy...a couple of years ago. _(Don't ask me why I date guys who want just sex. I actually want a stable relationship, but for some reason I always end up with the wrong guys... :frown2 _
> 
> I think I am HD and If I could, I'd have no problem having sex everyday, I like to experiment with positions, I like to talk about sex and do things very openly with my partner.
> 
> The only problem that I've been having lately is what the guy might think of how I perform in sex with him. Am I good/bad? What he thinks....etc.
> A few months ago I dated a guy who was into *BSDM*. He said he was very experienced in this type of sex but I was hesitant to have sex with him in the first place, as I didn't feel confident I'd satisfy him enough, starting even from oral [which for him was the minimum].
> I was afraid he'd make fun of me for not performing right in the bedroom so I let him go at all. We went out several times and he was expecting us to try things, but then I didn't feel comfortable and ended things with him.
> 
> Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age. Plus, I'm tired of meaningless dating. I want something real.
> I swear, if I had a stable partner, I wouldn't mind giving him any kind of pleasure, although I know I need some more practice.
> 
> Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite?
> Did you make fun of her (in your mind?)
> Did you feel disappointed?
> Did you comment it with your friends?
> 
> These are my concerns. Probably, you'd make fun of them too haha..




I never really understood the concept of 'being good in bed'. Maybe it's becauseI never had many women (ok, I had mainly just the one, my wife, the rest was not serious and not proper PIV stuff..). Anyway, I feel that if you love & care for someone and also feel very attracted to them, sex cannot be bad (is this right?). Maybe it's because I'm usually dominating in the bedroom and just take what I want I am not sure. But to me it's just like a buffet: unless the food itself is bad, how can a buffet be bad when you mostly just pick & take what you want? (Obviously you need to know what partner wants & likes. But like in tango, doesn't the guy usually lead?)
As to making fun: not if you care about someone plus I don't discuss my sex life with anyone in detail (unless it's anonymous, like here).
Don't be self conscious. The beginning of a relationship is always careful steps & finding out about each other (so I have heard  but eventually yo have to just be yourself and do what you are comfortable with. There shouldn't be an 'expectation' as such especially if you think you are HD anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

TaDor said:


> I know a lot of happy marriages where couples didn't wait.. and again - you are on our 2nd marriage. So if your rules about sex and marriage apply - then you never would have gotten a divorced the first time. "Sex can be worked on afterwards"? What if that is not possible? Skipping sex is part of the vetting process. And if a person only had sex with 1-2 people, how would they KNOW good sex from bad sex? More women, than men - get married into bad sexual relationships. What if he's bad at it? What if he wants oral sex, but would never go down on a nasty woman? What if he wants anal... done to him? What if his penis is TOO big? 11" of man meat? Or what if he has a 2" pencil? What if she looks odd down there? What if he doesn't like the shape of her nipples? What if he has a right-nut that looks very strange or his penis points to the left and is uncut - so it punches her in a spot that hurts? But perhaps for another woman - would not have been an issue? What if either of them has an aroma that doesn't work? I particularly like the smell of my wife's sweat.
> 
> You can have sex without being pressured... why should expressing love through sexual interaction be acts of aggression?
> 
> 
> 
> Most very rich people are... look no further than the Orange cheater thing - who spoke of 10~12 yr old girls as sexual objects.
> 
> But in general - men are older than the women they are with for various reasons. We mature later, more stable, have a car, have more experience than just sticking it in, etc.


The reasons our first marriages ended wasn't to do with lack of sex or bad sex. 

I was never attracted to older men, my husband is a year younger than me. I can see why rich men get younger women because they are wanting the lifestyle that money brings rather than the man himself, and of course if he is much older they will be still youngish when he dies, and very rich.:surprise: 

Of course you can know good sex from bad sex. Even if a couple have never had sex with anyone else they can learn and grow to have great sex together, and there is communication, you talk about these things when you are dating and in the marriage. You say what if he is 'bad' at it, that's why you talk, you communicate, you learn together what each other likes and doesn't like. I would far rather marry an inexperienced man who hasn't had many or any partners, than one who thinks its ok to have sex with many people.


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## 269370

TheTruthHurts said:


> The first night I met my W I told her I was a virgin because I was concerned (but I also wanted to get laid). She laughed and said so am I. Then the pressure was off and we took the time to develop a relationship and explore things together.


That's funny. Sometime before I had sex with my wife (we were 16 or so and it was obvious it was getting to that stage and I was getting very nervous) I told her I was a pro, with lots of experience and had sex with at least 300 models before meeting her. (Reality: I may have touched a boob. And I can't be 100% sure it wasn't my mother's). Since she didn't have any experience, I thought she might be more relaxed if she knew that I knew exactly what I was doing (wtf?).
It backfired. So when it came to it, I was poking around here and there and it didn't seem to want to go in easily. We did many attempts until I went soft eventually. So she thought it was all her fault...I told her the truth afterwards and felt so embarrassed that i broke up with her for two weeks (double wtf?).
So yeah. I have to somehow now teach my children not to be a moron...It's tough. Especially when you are a pro at being a moron.


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## 269370

Vinnydee said:


> Any sex is better than no sex. There are times when we tried something that just did not work but we never made fun of each other, just a failed experiment. We experimented a lot with each other and outsiders. Some things worked and some did not but I never made fun of a woman who tried. Some girls are better at certain things than others. What my wife lacked, our girlfriend made up for. Together they were everything you could ask for sexually. We experimented a lot and had a lot of laughs at failed or hopeless attempts at things we saw in porn.


This sounds like an amazing arrangement, I have to say. Can I ask what did the gf get out of it? I mean sex is not always 'just sex' and there's bonding an intimacy involved too. Was there never any jealousy? Has the gf never felt used? Was she much younger?
I just can't picture it working out long term (well I can picture many other things but somehow not as a sustainable arrangement for some reason).
(Sorry OP).


----------



## 269370

ConanHub said:


> She wasn't a virgin but I was far more experienced than her. We had sex within 10 hours of meeting but that is a dynamic I wouldn't recommend for everyone. Every woman I was ever with sexually had her clothing off and eagerly ready as fast as she could get me to agree.
> 
> Mrs. Conan was not different in that respect. She just wanted a hot f**k. The difference was how I felt about her. I new the moment I saw her. She took convincing to develop feelings for me. I basically screwed her into submission or sexed her so much and well that she fell for me but she had my heart at first sight.
> 
> I knew from the first that she was it so the remainder of our lives just needed worked out. Our first kiss sealed it for sure. She held nothing back and I will swear that I could feel her womb open up during it! Probably something to that because the only time we had unprotected sex in 4 years was when she conceived our son.
> 
> 
> Our sex got better immediately after the first time because we did communicate, me mostly drawing her out to tell me how to please her as I already knew how to be pleased with a woman.
> 
> We had sex somewhere between 30 and 50 times the first week and somewhere in the middle she started howling like a dog in a good way.
> 
> Reasons can be different for two people succeeding in a relationship.
> 
> She just wanted a good time and I was willing to give her the best time of her life while trying to win her heart.
> 
> She was in it for the sex while I was in it for love at the start.
> 
> That dynamic has changed and grown over the years.
> 
> I became more interested in sex and she became more interested in love with me.
> 
> It will always grow and change because all living things do. Our marriage is alive so our sex and other affections continue to change and grow.
> 
> Self realization and confidence are vital characteristics for anyone to succeed in romance.
> 
> Your internal makeup and development will give you the greatest results.
> 
> If you are strong in who you are, you will attract more than one acceptable mate. When you find him, go for it.
> 
> There are no hard and fast rules. I literally used my physical assets and seduction skills to overwhelm her into my life. No one else stood a chance against me in that arena and I knew it. Not fair?
> 
> I don't care. I successfully seduced her and made her mine using what I had.
> 
> I wasn't rich or successful. I was a heartthrob / bad boy that oozed raw sex appeal.
> 
> If I had money, I would have blown outrageous amounts in my play for her.
> 
> Whatever it took to win her is what I was willing to pay.
> 
> I was poor and sexy so I used what I had.
> 
> Sorry for getting a bit long here. Just trying to paint a more accurate image.


Modesty always goes down well :wink2:


----------



## ConanHub

inmyprime said:


> Modesty always goes down well :wink2:


LOL! I'm pragmatic.

No use wasting time when quick facts get the story done faster.

I'm actually not proud of my history. To me it is just data.

I am proud of my marriage though.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> I know so many good happy marriages where the couple didnt have sex for ages or not till they married. Sex can be worked on once you have the right partner. Its not all about sex at the beginning and how 'good or 'bad' that was, its what it can become with time and sharing and effort. My husband has never had sex outside his first marriage and our marriage. I love and respect him for that and we have a great sex life which gets better and better. If he had pressured me for sex early I would have left. In fact I wouldn't have dated him at all if he he had had many partners.


I agree but sexual history is not necessarily a factor on whether a relationship will work.

I had a wild history with many partners and turned out to be a good husband and father.


----------



## chillymorn69

GusPolinski said:


> Want to know what the guy who received the worst BJ in the history of sex said to himself afterward?
> 
> "Wow, that was AWESOME."


he said teeth hurt!


----------



## DustyDog

I can't imagine judging anybody on the basis of their "performance" in bed. I'm old and been single more often than married, so I've had a few partners - far less than other guys, but not single digits either.

Based on my experience mostly, and things that women I knew but was not intimate with have told me, there's almost always a bit of nervousness, hope I'm good enough from both sides...but in the end, both people enjoy it.

I don't know that I'd be able to categorize any of my lovers as better or worse at it...more like each had different preferences and tastes. Two of them were very easy to bring to orgasm quickly via missionary and little else - and they had decided that's what they wanted, so that was the entire menu with them. In order to create variety, I had to learn techniques to actually slow them down so it would last more than a few minutes! More commonly, the joy came from being together and the orgasm (for either of us) was optional...a good time together would include both of us experiencing something a bit different.

So, no, I doubt a guy would make fun of anything...most guys are pretty happy that a woman's willing to engage on that level anyway. If said guy WOULD make fun - he ain't your type.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

chillymorn69 said:


> he said teeth hurt!




Sadly, chilly, most guys would just wince the whole time and take the bj.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chillymorn69

TheTruthHurts said:


> Sadly, chilly, most guys would just wince the whole time and take the bj.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/slap.gif
:slap::slap: this is probably true.


----------



## Talker67

a man complain of poorly done sex?

A tricky question. that is like when your wife says "do these jeans make my ass look fat?"

You want to consider your wording VERY CAREFULLY.


----------



## arbitrator

TaDor said:


> I forgot to add this, lovelygirl.
> 
> Remember how I said that I had sex with my wife a few hours after meeting her, about 6 years ago? And that to this day, thinking about that first kiss still gives both of us a goosebumps.
> For the next few days after that first night - I was falling in love with her. I wasn't constantly thinking about sex with her - yet we both did some sexting. There was a lot more than just that. So during those days, I wasn't putting tons of thought into WHAT we did in the bedroom that first night. I was interested in her as a whole person. It took a while for her to believe that too or for me to admit it to myself. So yeah, we got married a few months after we met - which is against my own rules.
> 
> One of the problems with the "waiting game to prove you want me more than just sex" - is that you also put pressure on the guy - that YOU have a plan to get married, kids, etc. An agenda. Not attractive. Starting out casual with openness to go further - is less pressure on the both of you. When you keep a guy at bay for a few months, you're not seeing the true him for quite a while. He'll be at his "best behavior" for all those dates... then after finally having sex... is when it goes nowhere, and you wasted more of your time than his.
> 
> Having this "I think I love him. But will wait for 8 dates before he gets a breast feel, and 16+ dates before intercourse to prove he loves me." rarely actually works. * I mean, yeah - it works if best with teenagers or people in near their 70s.* But you're neither.


*Speak for yourself regarding us octogenarians!

If Ol' Arb is still quite capable or reading the lady's signals right, and provided that they are remotely anywhere to be found on the quasi-receptive side, then this old fart would go for her like a blitzing linebacker! *


----------



## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> Nature made us different. Men express love by wanting to have sex with you. Women give sex when they feel there is love from another person.


Not sure if that's true. Most men want to have sex with mos of the girls that come their way. Sex for men is a natural release but it doesn't necessarily mean "love". When a man enters the club wanting to hookup, I don't see that as a expression of love.



> But I feel that you are imposing rules against yourself... You are HD, but you keep guys at a distance until you think they want more than just sex from you.


Exactly, and it has kind of made me nervous, irritating and has put me into a bad mood for the past 5 months. 


> When you make a GUY work that much to get to 3rd or home base - that is too much work. It's been over two years since you LAST had sex. But you want sex. So you are hurting yourself.
> If I was a guy and knew its been 2+ years - I'd be cautious. Like any skills, doing things help you get better. Having limited sex with others may hurt your quality and quantity. A guy's brain "What if I love this woman, but she only allows me to MAKE love to her once every 2-6 months? What if she'll only be sexual for the first few months or unless we get married - then its downhill from there?" It happens.


But if the guy is really interested in me, why doesn't he respect my choice of restraining from sex for the first few weeks of our dating? Why should I hurry to give him sex for fear of losing him? Sex should not be the only thing to keep a guy around, even if sex is important ....but it's not everything. 

Even in her book, Sherry Argov *"Why men love beetches"* states that "_The principle of attraction is not to hurry to have sex with the guy..., let him wonder, make him wait, give hims signs of attraction but don't jump to bed right away. If he's really interested in you, he'll wait until you're ready. If you're an easy prey, then you won't be a mental challenge for him and he'll lose interest in you.._"

How do you find that quote?


----------



## lovelygirl

Juice said:


> You can't meet a guy at the gym?
> 
> I agree with TaDor. 3-5 dates...after that sex.


Read the end of this post here to answer your question.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...n-wrong-performed-sex-act-4.html#post17471378

5 dates is way to soon for me. Sorry.

Also, you've got PM.


----------



## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> You'd be surprised... Players make cheaters out of many married women. Many women like a man who is handsome and skilled enough to get another woman but stays with them.


Sure, a woman wants a man that every girl wants but this man stays with his woman. This goes the same for men and their wife. It's the law of attraction, but Diana was implying _something else_.
Dating a man who is used to sleep around most of the time, is not very attractive (at least to me and women like me.) Would you want someone who gets laid right away..as soon as you turn your back?


----------



## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> One of the problems with the "waiting game to prove you want me more than just sex" - is that you also put pressure on the guy - that YOU have a plan to get married, kids, etc. An agenda. Not attractive. Starting out casual with openness to go further - is less pressure on the both of you. When you keep a guy at bay for a few months, you're not seeing the true him for quite a while. He'll be at his "best behavior" for all those dates... then after finally having sex... is when it goes nowhere, and you wasted more of your time than his.


I understand your viewpoint that guys don't like agenda as it feels like a trap for them, but my reasons of waiting are not related to a possible future/marriage/kids with him.
If you ask me, I'm mostly disinterested in marriage/kids.

My reasons for waiting is that *I want to enjoy sex with him just as much as he does* but I simply don't want to be considered as a sex toy that he sleeps with once in a while. That's it.

If the relationship lasts or not, that is to be seen after we have been hanging out/sleeping for a good while. (at least a year or two). Then, we MIGHT consider taking further steps like getting real serious.


----------



## Diana7

lovelygirl said:


> Not sure if that's true. Most men want to have sex with mos of the girls that come their way. Sex for men is a natural release but it doesn't necessarily mean "love". When a man enters the club wanting to hookup, I don't see that as a expression of love.
> 
> 
> Exactly, and it has kind of made me nervous, irritating and has put me into a bad mood for the past 5 months.
> 
> But if the guy is really interested in me, why doesn't he respect my choice of restraining from sex for the first few weeks of our dating? Why should I hurry to give him sex for fear of losing him? Sex should not be the only thing to keep a guy around, even if sex is important ....but it's not everything.
> 
> Even in her book, Sherry Argov *"Why men love beetches"* states that "_The principle of attraction is not to hurry to have sex with the guy..., let him wonder, make him wait, give hims signs of attraction but don't jump to bed right away. If he's really interested in you, he'll wait until you're ready. If you're an easy prey, then you won't be a mental challenge for him and he'll lose interest in you.._"
> 
> How do you find that quote?


Its a good way to see what sort of man he is. If he isnt prepared to wait, he isnt worth having.


----------



## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> Not sure if that's true. Most men want to have sex with most of the girls that come their way. Sex for men is a natural release but it doesn't necessarily mean "love". When a man enters the club wanting to hookup, I don't see that as an expression of love.


Women have natural releases too. If you are thinking about sex with men and want it, but forcing yourself not to... then how is that natural?
I kind of messed up my quote earlier - it goes something like this:
"Men give LOVE for sex.
Women give SEX for Love."

That the generalization. When a man loves a woman, having sex is still an expression of love. We may/usually want more sex with the one we love than with others. ie: having NSA sex with women = I didn't think much about them after walking out the door. Not to be insulting (but more respectful than a guy demanding a BJ in his car on the 2nd date) We both got what we wanted. About 2~6 weeks, I'd be ready to move on or come back for a booty call when convenient. When a man is in actual love with someone, he'll be thinking about that person all day and night.

A dance club, a book club, a coffee shop - meeting someone for a hook up can happen anywhere. One of my player friends actually picks up women from Starbucks all the time - how? Because it's NOT a drinking/dance club - the women are not on guard for someone looking for a hookup. go figure. 

((I said: _But I feel that you are imposing rules against yourself_ ))


> Exactly, and it has kind of made me nervous, irritating and has put me into a bad mood for the past 5 months.


Hence, I recommend you talk to a sex therapist. You're punching yourself in the face pretty much. You have internal issues that I feel is beyond the abilities of an internet chat room. That kind of thing is something people will pick up on. How would that be attractive to someone else?



> But if the guy is really interested in me, why doesn't he respect my choice of restraining from sex for the first few weeks of our dating? Why should I hurry to give him sex for fear of losing him? Sex should not be the only thing to keep a guy around, even if sex is important ....but it's not everything.


You are right, he should respect your choice... But that goes in both directions, no? It seems you must only have *JUST YOUR WAY*? How does that sound fair for a loving relationship? You shouldn't need to hurry. I'm saying you should do what feels right and not hold back. But if you want sex, just go ahead and get sex. That is should help take the pressure off you to "perform" and not be so nervous when its someone you may really want.

Even NSA sex with someone can and HAS lead to marriages.



> Even in her book, Sherry Argov *"Why men love beetches"* states that "_The principle of attraction is not to hurry to have sex with the guy..., let him wonder, make him wait, give hims signs of attraction but don't jump to bed right away. If he's really interested in you, he'll wait until you're ready. If you're an easy prey, then you won't be a mental challenge for him and he'll lose interest in you.._"
> 
> How do you find that quote?


Find what quote?

You see... from that author's quote... she (and you) are using sex as leverage... a tool. "make him wait" Doesn't matter if he's so-so or Mr. Perfect - you are going to play games and MAKE HIM WAIT? If a woman had tried to do that to me after the age of 21 - I'd be done with them. I told a young lady in my mid-20s "don't threaten me with your p ~ vagina" = she wanted me to do something and if I wouldn't do it... no sex. Using her vagina as a tool or weapon as insulting. Fine, no sex that day. Took her a day or so to figure that out and we had sex then.

Yes, there WILL be men who will wait months to get touch your privates. But most will not. You said weeks just now... but your earlier post was making it sound like 1~3 months before allowing intercourse.

Again... if you are a HOT looking woman (You said you are attractive and fit) and doing this to typical men, I (they) may go with your game and date you. I'll still get something out of it. I get to practice... and you'd improve my chances of getting laid by ANOTHER woman by dating you in public. Let's say you date a guy and have dinner at a restaurant/club type place. The date ends at 9pm and you leave in a taxi after a goodbye hug (what a nice guy). He then walks back into the venue, gets a drink and hangs out. Any woman who is available who has SEEN you and him - may come up to him... and things go from there. That *IS* laws of attraction.

Remember, my wife had seen me a number of times at a club over the course of months, dancing and interacting with women. She was telling her best friend that I was handsome and wouldn't have a chance with me. She is somewhat shy and is not in the higher social circles of the club (yeah, that kind of thing happens - ugh).

I didn't plan to marry my wife when I met her. Just went with the flow. After the 3rd date - it was my best friend who told me "you're in love with her" I think he even said "you're going to marry her" - which I laughed off. When the thought of marrying her came to me, I asked and got a yes.

When you impose unrealistic rules... you get the results you are experiencing. You say you are not wanting children and marriage - okay, then what?
Start getting help know - with a professional, rather than continue what you are doing now.


----------



## SadSamIAm

In the end, men and women both want to feel loved. Sex alone doesn't do it for either of us.

My son had a difficult breakup with a girl that he dated for about 18 months. He is 20 years old. He is a good looking guy and gets hit on a bunch. He told me the other day that girls just don't get it. They think guys just want to get laid, but that isn't it. He said, "Sure it is great to get laid, but I am looking for more than that". 

I think both people need to be fun, honest, intelligent, have something in common, etc. If you end up having sex, then great. But don't make the mistake that having sex will land you a man. I don't think it matters if you don't have sex right away or you do. What matters is the connection outside the bedroom.


----------



## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> Sure, a woman wants a man that every girl wants but this man stays with his woman. This goes the same for men and their wife. It's the law of attraction, but Diana was implying _something else_.
> Dating a man who is used to sleep around most of the time, is not very attractive (at least to me and women like me.) Would you want someone who gets laid right away..as soon as you turn your back?


 No one way works for everyone. If one way isn't working, then you need to make a change. Diana is hardcore marriage above anything else. You don't want that. So find something in-between that may work.

As long as he is STD free and doesn't cheat on you - what does it matter if he (or she) had sex with 1 person or 100? Other than... you gotta compare yourself to all his past lovers, girlfriends, and hot-freaky one night stand sex.

When I had NSA sex with someone, why would I care what they do after I leave? When two people are INTO each other, they won't be thinking about anyone else. First month of dating my wife, I really didn't remember any interactions with friends or others on dates. All focus was on her.

About the "5 dates is too soon for me to have sex"...
*Question 1: * After dating a guy past the 2nd or 3rd date. Are you sexually attracted to him? Even imagining him naked or touching you sexually.
If "NO" = you should not waste any time doing additional dates. right?
If "YES" = Go to Question 2

*Question 2:* How is it NOT A GAME, when you stop yourself from doing something you both want to do?

*Question 3: *By holding down the brakes on sex for some proof of validation - how has it helped you or anyone else you know? How is has it proved anything?
How does that NOT project that "I only want you for marriage and children"?
*
Question 4: *You want love, cuddling, someone to wake up in the morning with? If yes, how has your current way of "dating" helping you get those things? Yet other people you may know - are doing those things. Perhaps talk to them about how they dated. I bet you will find that they didn't wait 10-whatever dates to get naked.

I sleep with my wife every night. We don't have sex every night. Between this post and the previous, I was nude when the wife came home from work. (I like to be naked in my own home or just boxers). She sat down near our bed, topless playing with a cat. I got on the bed and got behind her. I massaged and scratched her back, neck and shoulders. Some extra rubbing in other areas, but 95% of the time, I'm on her back and shoulders - this was for about 20 minutes while we talked, kiddo coming in and out of the bedroom playing. We then got dressed and went to the gym, then dinner. No sex. She was a bit sore - and I wanted to feel and hug her. No pressure and I was not out for sex.

Sex plays a part in "bonding two people" together. When you are stand-offish to men, you are not sending signals of romantic interests. Hence, 3~5 dates are the NORM for sex if the dating pair is working out. You maybe vetting him to see if he is worthy... but after so many dates, you've already started failing his vetting process.

*Question 5:* you've stated that of the few men you have had sex with - usually after months of dating. The relationship seems to die in a month or so. Why is that? Did either of you talk about the failure? Did you dump him or did he dump you? What were the signs? Was there ever a time he said "I love you" during the pre-sex dating phase?

The blunt thing is still a factor. If you are not fun in bed today (rigid, cold, insecure) that will also be a turn-off for many men. For those who want JUST sex, they won't care. As long as they bust a nut and added a notch on their belt - that is all they require.

I have gone years without sex with another woman. Without dating, gaining sexual experience and confidence - I would not have the child I have today. Even with the painful experiences with my wife - ALL of that was worth it... vs. being 46, alone, sexless and loveless. I knew that I would likely get hurt going out into the world of dating... that is part of life.


----------



## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> I understand your viewpoint that guys don't like agenda as it feels like a trap for them, but my reasons of waiting are not related to a possible future/marriage/kids with him. If you ask me, I'm mostly disinterested in marriage/kids.
> 
> My reasons for waiting is that *I want to enjoy sex with him just as much as he does* but I simply don't want to be considered as a sex toy that he sleeps with once in a while. That's it.


 There is nothing wrong with that. Thing is, waiting for 10 dates or so - doesn't prove anything. There are married couples in which the wife is a sex toy (have you seen trump and his wives? There is no love there) There are people who have be together for years, and still one or both are treating the other like crap.
Until you are with a guy for a while, sexually - you may not know. Unless you are like Diana in which Marriage is a requirement and end-game goal. And believe me, there are women who want GUYS as sex toys. I *KNOW* how it feels... it's cheap sex. That is why I generally preferred casual dating or FWB sex - so there is something more than just an hour or so of fun. IF you meet a guy YOU really like, and he likes you - then YOU should be able to pick up on it and just go with the flow. But how are you going to learn how to see such signs from a guy - when you keep them at bay constantly? 
1 - A guy won't show his true colors until after sex. (* religious / marriage before sex - not included)
2 - If a guy *IS INTO YOU* he'll be wanting to see you 3+ times a week.
3 - with some guys, you may never know. sorry.

I did not think of my wife as a sex object the first time we had sex. Her personality, her jokes and views of the world were a turn on.



> If the relationship lasts or not, that is to be seen after we have been hanging out/sleeping for a good while. (at least a year or two). Then, we MIGHT consider taking further steps like getting real serious.


 Yep... rules. They are general rules. Some work better than others. People shouldn't get married until age 25+. People should have several sexual partners and relationships under their belt before looking for a serious relationship. I told a teen girl about that. She really wanted her first "guy" to be the love of her life. Geez, she was 15 back then. She did get a BF, they didn't make it to the age of 17. That's reality.

People should be together as a SERIOUS couple for 1~2 years before marriage. I broke my own rule... not even 3 weeks.

Until a relationship is "serious" - then expecting monogamy from your partner is unrealistic. A serious relationship is usually weeks or a few months after a 1st date... at that time, you both should state that dating others *IS NOT ALLOWED*. I did dated a woman years ago who expected the man to ONLY date her... I told her not happening and not realistic. We never took off - but remained good friends until she died of a health issue at 26yrs old. 

When I dated my "future wife"... we started using the "love" word in about 7~10 days. We decided we were serious in about 2 weeks, then engaged soon after that. Other women I knew (Sexually or not) - had noticed that I was in love quickly. There were no requirement for X-amount of dates to know how people feel about each other.

While I had the sexual experience, it was she that cheated on our marriage and totally broke my heart. I've had broken 6 bones at various points in my life... her cheating of me - was far more painful than any of those injured. There is no perfect formula to keep that from ever happening.


----------



## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> You are right, he should respect your choice... But that goes in both directions, no? It seems you must only have *JUST YOUR WAY*? How does that sound fair for a loving relationship? You shouldn't need to hurry. I'm saying you should do what feels right and not hold back. But if you want sex, just go ahead and get sex. That is should help take the pressure off you to "perform" and not be so nervous when its someone you may really want.


He shouldn't play by my rules if he doesn't want to and I don't want to play by his rules if I don't want to. I dislike it when either of the partners does things out of feeling forced and not out of pleasure.
That is until I meet someone who has the same flow as I do. 



> Again... if you are a HOT looking woman (You said you are attractive and fit) and doing this to typical men, I (they) may go with your game and date you. I'll still get something out of it. I get to practice... and you'd improve my chances of getting laid by ANOTHER woman by dating you in public. Let's say you date a guy and have dinner at a restaurant/club type place. The date ends at 9pm and you leave in a taxi after a goodbye hug (what a nice guy). *He then walks back into the venue, gets a drink and hangs out. Any woman who is available who has SEEN you and him - may come up to him... and things go from there. * That *IS* laws of attraction.


The very same thing might happen even if we have sex. If he's the type of guy who sleeps around the block, he'll walk back to the venue no matter what. 



> I didn't plan to marry my wife when I met her. Just went with the flow. After the 3rd date - it was my best friend who told me "you're in love with her" I think he even said "you're going to marry her" - which I laughed off. When the thought of marrying her came to me, I asked and got a yes.


TaDOr, you are an exception to the rule. 
Is she the very same wife who cheated on you? 



> When you impose unrealistic rules... you get the results you are experiencing.
> You say you are not wanting children and marriage - okay, then what?


Apparently I'm running out of luck, as I've always been. I meet a new guy only 1nce a year. [Excluding guys at the gym who are already in a relationship/married when they ask me out...].

I go clubbing every weekend, but the guys who walk in there are only looking for a hook up. 

That's the situation and if I don't meet the guys that fit my category then who do I date?


----------



## lovelygirl

SadSamIAm said:


> In the end, men and women both want to feel loved. Sex alone doesn't do it for either of us.
> 
> My son had a difficult breakup with a girl that he dated for about 18 months. He is 20 years old. He is a good looking guy and gets hit on a bunch. He told me the other day that girls just don't get it. They think guys just want to get laid, but that isn't it. He said, "Sure it is great to get laid, but I am looking for more than that".
> 
> I think both people need to be fun, honest, intelligent, have something in common, etc. If you end up having sex, then great. But don't make the mistake that having sex will land you a man. *I don't think it matters if you don't have sex right away or you do. What matters is the connection outside the bedroom.*


I am a strong fan of this idea. I don't enjoy sex if I don't feel the chemistry outside the bedroom as well. 
Having a great sex is great but I don't think it'd be enough to maintain a stable relationship.

I've done a revision of myself and the way I am..and to be honest...it's not THAT difficult to get me laid, no matter how hard I sound. 
My love language is *words of affirmation* and when someone I date/like pays me a compliment, I feel like I want to jump on his bones. ha! 
I also love it when guys notice my details, or things that make me different from other girls and express it to me...it turns me on. I remember in 2014 there was a guy at the gym I had sex with just because he noticed my necklace and said I am such a classy girl and that I looked even more classy with that necklace on. Can you believe I had sex with him that night after gym at the message room? Sure, he might have said it to get me laid...but it actually worked. Pros to him!

Apparently, you don't need much work with me but you have to express and do things in a certain way to get my sexual attention. 
To make it clear, I get compliments every single while at works, on the steet or at the gym ...but those compliments are so common and ordinary. They're about the shape of my body, my booty and all that... It's pretty much the same things that all guys notice at first sight. *But* when a guy notices something that not all guys do, my sexual attraction goes up and I can have sex with him right there. See? You only need to find my soft spots.


----------



## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> *As long as he is STD free and doesn't cheat on you*


How do I know if he's STD free when he sleeps around the block? 
Cheating could be part of the package as well.




> - what does it matter if he (or she) had sex with 1 person or 100? Other than... you gotta compare yourself to all his past lovers, girlfriends, and hot-freaky one night stand sex.


I don't care and don't want to be compared. Every lover is different. I am different as well.



> When I had NSA sex with someone, why would I care what they do after I leave? When two people are INTO each other, they won't be thinking about anyone else. First month of dating my wife, I really didn't remember any interactions with friends or others on dates. All focus was on her.


The focus is what I need. If I have that from a guy then I feel appreciated.

About the "5 dates is too soon for me to have sex"...



> *Question 1: * After dating a guy past the 2nd or 3rd date. Are you sexually attracted to him? Even imagining him naked or touching you sexually.
> If "NO" = you should not waste any time doing additional dates. right?
> If "YES" = Go to Question 2


After the 3rd date I can imagine having sex with him. I even touch myself to the thoughts of me and him. But this imagination hasn't happened with all the guys I've dated. Only with 1 or two of them.



> *Question 2:* How is it NOT A GAME, when you stop yourself from doing something you both want to do?


I was afraid of been seen only as a sex tool, hence I didn't go on with having sex soon.



> *Question 3: *By holding down the brakes on sex for some proof of validation - how has it helped you or anyone else you know? How is has it proved anything?
> How does that NOT project that "I only want you for marriage and children"?


I don't see the "sex prevention" as a tool to reach marriage and kids. The latter is out of the equation for me (at the moment) so all I worry about is how he sees me if we have sex too soon.

Although, with the guy from the gym that I had sex with (see my previous post), for some reason I didn't care what he would think of me afterwards. I went ahead to please my sexual desire at that moment. I didn't think twice and don't regret it even to this day. When I meet him every now and then, we greet each other like good friends and like nothing has happened. For some reason, I have forgotten about that experience although it felt good at that moment. 



> *
> Question 4: *You want love, cuddling, someone to wake up in the morning with? If yes, how has your current way of "dating" helping you get those things? Yet other people you may know - are doing those things. Perhaps talk to them about how they dated. I bet you will find that they didn't wait 10-whatever dates to get naked.


As I said, one of my friends who slept with the guy for the first time they dated, never heard from him afterwards. 
So there are good experiences and bad ones. No experience is the same as the other.



> I sleep with my wife every night. We don't have sex every night. Between this post and the previous, I was nude when the wife came home from work. (I like to be naked in my own home or just boxers). She sat down near our bed, topless playing with a cat. I got on the bed and got behind her. I massaged and scratched her back, neck and shoulders. Some extra rubbing in other areas, but 95% of the time, I'm on her back and shoulders - this was for about 20 minutes while we talked, kiddo coming in and out of the bedroom playing. We then got dressed and went to the gym, then dinner. *No sex. She was a bit sore - and I wanted to feel and hug her. No pressure and I was not out for sex.*


Yes, but you have reached to a point where you LOVE your wife so you don't need to have sex to express love to her and she already knows it.
But during the dating phase, the guy needs to have sex to start loving the girl (if love happens)..and until then..the girl is pressured to give him sex 'til she receives some non-sexual love in return.



> Sex plays a part in "bonding two people" together. When you are stand-offish to men, you are not sending signals of romantic interests. Hence, 3~5 dates are the NORM for sex if the dating pair is working out. You maybe vetting him to see if he is worthy... but after so many dates, you've already started failing his vetting process.


I see.



> *Question 5:* you've stated that of the few men you have had sex with - usually after months of dating. The relationship seems to die in a month or so. Why is that? Did either of you talk about the failure? Did you dump him or did he dump you? What were the signs? Was there ever a time he said "I love you" during the pre-sex dating phase?


I've dumped but mostly I'VE BEEN DUMPED. I restrain from sex when I start to feel that I'm not receiving non-sexual love in return. So he gets mad, bored and leaves me. My needs for non-sexual love are not met so I start my detachment by not giving him sex. He then totally detaches from me...until finally dumping me for good. 
That's how it usually goes. The last two men have dumped me because that's how it went.



> The blunt thing is still a factor. If you are not fun in bed today (rigid, cold, insecure) that will also be a turn-off for many men. For those who want JUST sex, they won't care. As long as they bust a nut and added a notch on their belt - that is all they require.


I try to be fun and experience anything the man wants. I usually don't have issues with trying new things. 
Although, to be honest I have NEVER EVER oragasmed in my life with the men I've slept. 
I've only climaxed through self-pleasure. So, most of the times I've slept with those men it's been about them..not so much about me.



> I have gone years without sex with another woman. Without dating, gaining sexual experience and confidence - I would not have the child I have today. Even with the painful experiences with my wife - ALL of that was worth it... vs. being 46, alone, sexless and loveless. I knew that I would likely get hurt going out into the world of dating... that is part of life.


I have been worried lately that my sexual libido could decrease due to the sexless state that I've been in for the most part of my life. :|
If someday (God knows when..) I meet a HD man with whom I click ...but by the time I decide to have sex with him I go LD??? How will I treat this? 
Now I'm HD, young, energetic and still feel fresh. What happens after 5-7 years? Will I feel the same? 

This worries me.


----------



## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> He shouldn't play by my rules if he doesn't want to and I don't want to play by his rules if I don't want to. I dislike it when either of the partners does things out of feeling forced and not out of pleasure. That is until I meet someone who has the same flow as I do.


When you have sexual interests or desires for someone and not do it - then its forced, no?
What if you never meet someone who has the "same flow" as you do? Would you really want to be with someone who is a mirror of yourself? Love isn't so simple... people come together like puzzle pieces - not because they are exactly the same. If LOVE was a simple thing that works the same - well, everyone would be just perfect, always - every time and forever.



> The very same thing might happen even if we have sex. If he's the type of guy who sleeps around the block, he'll walk back to the venue no matter what.


So you are then in a lose-lose situation. You don't know... but worse yet, when you blow a guy off "to prove his dedication" - then you open him up to dating others and falling in love with someone else. To us guys, you're playing a game. If he's interested in something more than just sex - it'll be a turn off for many.
If its a date that goes from dinner > dance > Love-making, then he's not going anywhere... is he?



> TaDOr, you are an exception to the rule. Is she the very same wife who cheated on you?


Actually, I am not. yeah, there are a LOT of guys who are jerks, just want to bang. But there are a lot more than you think - that want more... even if they are in their early 20s. If all men wanted just sex - then no women would have boyfriends or husbands. And yes, she is the same one. Out of all my relationships - only one woman I ever asked to marry. So, # sex partners doesn't = cheater. You can marry a virgin and he or she could cheat on you.



> Apparently I'm running out of luck, as I've always been. I meet a new guy only 1nce a year. [Excluding guys at the gym who are already in a relationship/married when they ask me out...].
> 
> I go clubbing every weekend, but the guys who walk in there are only looking for a hook up.
> That's the situation and if I don't meet the guys that fit my category then who do I date?


Its not luck... its your choices, your rules. When I was younger and wanting to ONLY date woman who I may consider marriage or LTR - I had rules that such a woman would have to fit. No smoking, etc. My wife was a smoker (GASP / ugh) - now she vapes.

You meet guys all the time. (Let's not talk about the Gym cheaters) - What are you doing? Your vibes are "****** off!"? Crossing your arms in a club = "go away"... something simple as that.

So what if guys go to clubs to hook up... are they gay or do these clubs also have women? So you see, people are going to meet... And you know what I like doing? Going to those same clubs with my wife or past girlfriends. Socializing with friends, having fun. Many people meet their future boyfriend/girlfriend at clubs.

Start casual, go from there.

Who do you date? I answered that above... you date nobody. You stay sexually frustrated. And question your own sexual appeal and abilities. One of my best friends, she used a dating site to get laid - but ended up meeting her boyfriend of 3 years, I expect them to marry some day. A perfect couple, IMHO. She's a friend, we kissed a few times, I got a breast once... but that was it, we felt nothing and just remained friends.

You need to change yourself. Men and women all over the world do this all the time. Finally meeting Mr. Perfect at age 60 isn't going to do you any favors.


----------



## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> How do I know if he's STD free when he sleeps around the block?
> Cheating could be part of the package as well. I don't care and don't want to be compared. Every lover is different. I am different as well.


Yes, no... maybe. No way to tell for sure... until he's coming back for lovemaking and his relaxed around you.
The comparison is about how you feel about others... your subject of this tread is about the quality of sex, remember? And for that - there has to be something for the other person to compare with.



> The focus is what I need. If I have that from a guy then I feel appreciated.
> 
> About the "5 dates is too soon for me to have sex"...
> 
> After the 3rd date I can imagine having sex with him. I even touch myself to the thoughts of me and him. But this imagination hasn't happened with all the guys I've dated. Only with 1 or two of them.
> I was afraid of been seen only as a sex tool, hence I didn't go on with having sex soon.


That is fine... everyone like to be appreciated. Date 1 or date 20, if that guy only sees you as a sex tool - the number of dates won't matter much. Hence 2~3 date "rule" = you fizzle out his interests in you as a person. If you can't figure where he is at by date 4 or 5, you won't after date 20. Look, as you yourself said "guys are in clubs looking for hook-ups" = okay, if a MAN just wants to get SEX - he wouldn't be dating you. He can go online, use an app for NSA sex. He can pay a prostitute the cost of a date, to get sex... without all the hassle of dating.

Another thing, even about club-guys... they (we) also get nervous when we meet someone we like. "will she like me". Women dress up "will he find me attractive?" When it's more about sex, then it's not much a deal to get a rejection or gets nothing that night. 



> I don't see the "sex prevention" as a tool to reach marriage and kids. The latter is out of the equation for me (at the moment) so all I worry about is how he sees me if we have sex too soon.


And all he is worried about is that you want marriage and kids and he's only spent several hours with you. Remember, YOU also see him naked, and he *IS* concerned about what YOU think of his attractiveness and sexual abilities. That he doesn't ejaculate too fast... that you HAVE a good time. Your 10~20 date rules is telling the man's brain "marriage and kids" - no matter what you say otherwise. There is no such thing as "too soon". If a guy is a jerk who ONLY view women as sex objects - the number of dates, if ANY won't change him.

Every woman I had NSA sex with, I wanted them to ENJOY what *we* are doing. I want to rock their world and by all means, its great to give such pleasure to someone else. Hint, if HE has zero interest in giving YOU oral, he's thinking more about himself, than you. I (and other men - but not all) have not reduced the value of how we think of a woman we are dating because we had sex one date 1 or date 5. I once had sex with a very attractive woman at a party, both drunk and turned on. I think about an hour or two later, she was having issues and I was trying to help her. But her male friend stopped me. He didn't know who I was, but he also wasn't doing a good job to help her. Still many years later, it makes me angry that he stopped me from helping her - which I would have done, sex or no sex. Since he was her friend, I left it up to him in the end... but I'm not happy about it.

I have friended many women that I met at a clubs, I have also talked to them about relationships and supported them getting into serious relationship with others. Why not?



> Although, with the guy from the gym that I had sex with (see my previous post), for some reason I didn't care what he would think of me afterwards. I went ahead to please my sexual desire at that moment. I didn't think twice and don't regret it even to this day. When I meet him every now and then, we greet each other like good friends and like nothing has happened. For some reason, I have forgotten about that experience although it felt good at that moment.


Okay... so apply a version of THAT to men you meet at club or date. By date 3 at the latest, choose that he has met some criteria that make him sexually attractive to you and have fun. Or after date 3, thank him for his time "sorry, nothing wrong with you - but not what I'm looking for." And if he is a "good guy" that you feel isn't compatible with you - offer that you'll keep his number handy for maybe a friend who may like him. Who knows. Hell, I've done that many times.

If that guy only used you for sex (and you still got something out of it) and he disappears the next day - then you have not invested time, money, effort, emotions with 5~10~15+ dates with him. Insulting, yes. But as with the Gym-guy... you had fun, and you can look him in the eye and not give a damn. You yourself said you don't have any regrets.



> As I said, one of my friends who slept with the guy for the first time they dated, never heard from him afterward. So there are good experiences and bad ones. No experience is the same as the other.


Yep. I think you said they dated a few times before she had sex with him... then gone. It could be because he wanted to add a notch to his list or he didn't like the sex with her.

Before my wife, I dated a women 2 times who would have been considered "hotter" because she is a D-cup and very fit. I thought for several months she would be girlfriend material who lived 2 minutes from me. And I knew her from a community setting, NOT a club setting. She wanted to discuss some social issues, it was a Friday night. I said "sure" and met her for a drink and finger food as I was going to go out dancing and drinking in the city afterward. After our 1.5hr talk - which WAS NOT A DATE, she wanted to go out clubbing. We got drunk, we danced and we had sex in her house. Sex was good, not great ~ I was on the fence. I offered for us to date some more, but she wanted me to come over for sex the next night. I went over, she's half naked... game time. 10 minutes into sex, while I am still inside her - how she talked, wanted sex and other factors just reduced my desire for her. I offered a 3rd date - at least she can dance and take her out for a good time, but at that stage, I doubt I wanted to have sex with her. She didn't go, I went out and meet my future wife who lived 45 minutes away on the other side of the city. She was worth the drive. I am more satisfied with a 5 min quickie with my wife, today than anything I did with that local woman years ago.

Remember my previous post "you date a guy for dinner, go home. He then meets another woman later that night, who may end up becoming a girlfriend". I was also thought the local woman would be good eye-candy for me to attract OTHER women at the club. I don't miss her. Looking back, she wasn't a good lover - or at least compatible with me.



> Yes, but you have reached to a point where you LOVE your wife so you don't need to have sex to express love to her and she already knows it.
> But during the dating phase, the guy needs to have sex to start loving the girl (if love happens)..and until then..the girl is pressured to give him sex 'til she receives some non-sexual love in return.


I never pressured my wife for sex, or anyone else. If two people are turned on and want sex... then its more pressure to NOT have sex. You kind of got the process correct. The guy needs sex / girl has sex for non-sexual emotional needs. But you added the "pressured to give him sex". Some may do so more than others. I've been felt up by women many times. You are viewing men as "the enemy"... yes, many guys are jerks - but so are women. Its like you are going into battle with the guy you are dating, that doesn't seem healthy ~ and of course, that is a turn-off for the men.



> Question 5 =
> I've dumped but mostly I'VE BEEN DUMPED. I restrain from sex when I start to feel that I'm not receiving non-sexual love in return. So he gets mad, bored and leaves me. My needs for non-sexual love are not met so I start my detachment by not giving him sex. He then totally detaches from me...until finally dumping me for good.
> That's how it usually goes. The last two men have dumped me because that's how it went.


Getting mad = immature. Bored and leaves you should be the norm. Sorry, but us MEN can give you non-sexual LOVE after the sex. Again, for MEN - once we know we can get sex from the woman (you) AND we do like you as a possible girlfriend. Then we'll want to date you more, do NON-SEXUAL things with you. But if he comes back only for sex (like the local woman in my story), then that is all it is to him... come by for an hour or so then leaves = player. Then you know where to go from there.

So, a typical thing is that you date/have sex with such a guy to get your sexual needs meet, until you meet a guy who rocks your world. Of course that works more so for men.

Ph, the anger part could be that the guy felt like you PLAYED him for free dinner and drinks and all he was to you is a wallet.



> I try to be fun and experience anything the man wants. I usually don't have issues with trying new things.
> Although, to be honest I have NEVER EVER oragasmed in my life with the men I've slept.
> I've only climaxed through self-pleasure. So, most of the times I've slept with those men it's been about them..not so much about me.


If you are not having orgasms, that is also a turn off for men... Being wound up and not letting your body relax, is likely keeping you from having the orgazm. Remember, locate a sex therapist.



> I have been worried lately that my sexual libido could decrease due to the sexless state that I've been in for the most part of my life. :|
> If someday (God knows when..) I meet a HD man with whom I click ...but by the time I decide to have sex with him I go LD??? How will I treat this?
> Now I'm HD, young, energetic and still feel fresh. What happens after 5-7 years? Will I feel the same?
> 
> This worries me.


You don't use it - you'll lose it, especially with age. How do you treat it? Well, if you wait until then - there is nothing you can do. What you do today is... get laid. A HD guy is gonna likely want or expect sex within date 1~2. Any dates after 5 *IS A WASTE* of his time and yours. You're not learning new things or learning how to be comfortable with sex with men. My wife not wanting me to see her body the first week or so we were dating was NOT attractive. I helped her with her body image issues. She's naked quite a bit now, but I talked with her quite a bit about being nude and she started becoming at ease with her body.

In 5~7 years, you'll be older - you'll be hitting your biological clock... then men you date WILL be very much aware of your biological clock and will either ignore you *OR* use it against you to get into your panties. You'll likely be more desperate. Hence, they will use "I love you" type stuff to have sex with you... then still dump you.

I was worried about living my 30s without having a girlfriend or sex. So I made a change, reduced my rules... dating all kinds of women, because how WOULD I KNOW what I like if I didn't sample the buffet?

You ever do that? Go to a new restaurant and TRY a platter or buffet of food to see what you like? I do that all parties, especially weddings. I take a finger/bite of everything from the buffet... see what I like, then fill my plate with the stuff I know I like.

Here is a simple question: If a man had a 2" (5 centimeter) penis, when erect. Would that be acceptable?
Imagine if you dated a handsome and rich guy for months, finally had sex with him - and that is what he has between his legs. If you leave, then you would have wasted much of each others time.


Dating a man a year... is not working. And without plans for marriage and children... you are missing out on your own enjoyment for the wrong reasons. Of course be safe out there.


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## StillSearching

As far as your original question years ago I had a girl give me oral sex.
I would not say it was AWESOME!
There was a lot of teeth scraping. I put up with it til the end. Never made fun of her.
I talked to her about it. She said she had only done it a couple of times before.
Taught her, over time she got very good at it. 
Funny years later it's about the only BJ I remember.


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## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> If its a date that goes from dinner > dance > Love-making, then he's not going anywhere... is he?


I don't know..but do I have to give him love-making to keep him from going elsewhere? 
I'm not a policewoman. He's free to go if he feels like going. I can't control his actions but I can control my reaction to his actions.



> You meet guys all the time. (Let's not talk about the Gym cheaters) - What are you doing? Your vibes are "****** off!"? Crossing your arms in a club = "go away"... something simple as that.


No no. I'm not like that. I'm usually flirty with guys in the club. Then they either offer me a drink or start chatting. With guys I'm having mutual interest, I flirt/talk back. But it usually stays there as I don't feel like taking them too seriously. The guy who wanted me to give him oral in my car, was one who I knew at the club. I'm not saying everyone's like him...but mos are. 



> Who do you date? I answered that above... you date nobody. You stay sexually frustrated. And question your own sexual appeal and abilities.
> You need to change yourself. Men and women all over the world do this all the time. Finally meeting Mr. Perfect at age 60 isn't going to do you any favors.


Advice me what to do and where to start from, then.
Starting from tomorrow. I'll follow your advice. BUT I don't want to get laid without any condition...as I don't want to look/act like I'm desperate. I don't like that role.


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## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> Date 1 or date 20, if that guy only sees you as a sex tool - the number of dates won't matter much.


I don't think I can agree with that. We know plenty of stories which started out as simple sex/FWB and ended in relationships/marriage. The latest (that I know of) is @RandomDude 's story.



> Hence 2~3 date "rule" = you fizzle out his interests in you as a person. If you can't figure where he is at by date 4 or 5, you won't after date 20. Look, as you yourself said "guys are in clubs looking for hook-ups" = okay, if a MAN just wants to get SEX - he wouldn't be dating you. He can go online, use an app for NSA sex. He can pay a prostitute the cost of a date, to get sex... without all the hassle of dating.


Just like there are stories where guys fell in love with prostitutes...



> And all he is worried about is that you want marriage and kids and he's only spent several hours with you.


Why would he be worried about that? I never mention marriage/kids while dating. I have never had this talk with any of the guys I've dated.


> Remember, YOU also see him naked, and he *IS* concerned about what YOU think of his attractiveness and sexual abilities. That he doesn't ejaculate too fast... that you HAVE a good time. Your 10~20 date rules is telling the man's brain "marriage and kids" - no matter what you say otherwise. There is no such thing as "too soon". If a guy is a jerk who ONLY view women as sex objects - the number of dates, if ANY won't change him.


As I said, it starts out as a sex object but turns into more than that. We've all heard about these cases. 
Just like it starts out as love and turns into plain sex as the couple realizes that any sort of relationship won't take them anywhere, so they're satisfied with simply being FWB. 



> Okay... so apply a version of THAT to men you meet at club or date. By date 3 at the latest, choose that he has met some criteria that make him sexually attractive to you and have fun. Or after date 3, thank him for his time "sorry, nothing wrong with you - but not what I'm looking for." And if he is a "good guy" that you feel isn't compatible with you - offer that you'll keep his number handy for maybe a friend who may like him. Who knows. Hell, I've done that many times.


Yeah, I want to apply (to the men I meet nowadays) the same psychology/attitude that I used towards the gym guy in the past ..but for some reason I can't apply it to all my dates. 



> If that guy only used you for sex (and you still got something out of it) and he disappears the next day - then you have not invested time, money, effort, emotions with 5~10~15+ dates with him. Insulting, yes. But as with the Gym-guy... you had fun, and you can look him in the eye and not give a damn. You yourself said you don't have any regrets.


Yeah, I don't feel regrets. Actually, I never really think about the sex we had. It's as if it was pretty normal. 

Yep. I think you said they dated a few times before she had sex with him... then gone. It could be because he wanted to add a notch to his list or he didn't like the sex with her.


> Before my wife, I dated a women 2 times who would have been considered "hotter" because she is a D-cup and very fit. I thought for several months she would be girlfriend material who lived 2 minutes from me. And I knew her from a community setting, NOT a club setting. She wanted to discuss some social issues, it was a Friday night. I said "sure" and met her for a drink and finger food as I was going to go out dancing and drinking in the city afterward. After our 1.5hr talk - which WAS NOT A DATE, she wanted to go out clubbing. We got drunk, we danced and we had sex in her house. Sex was good, not great ~ I was on the fence. I offered for us to date some more, but she wanted me to come over for sex the next night. I went over, she's half naked... game time. 10 minutes into sex, while I am still inside her - *how she talked, wanted sex and other factors just reduced my desire for her.* I offered a 3rd date - at least she can dance and take her out for a good time, but at that stage, I doubt I wanted to have sex with her. She didn't go, I went out and meet my future wife who lived 45 minutes away on the other side of the city. She was worth the drive. I am more satisfied with a 5 min quickie with my wife, today than anything I did with that local woman years ago.


Interesting.
Can you explain what it was that you disliked about her way of talking/wanting to have sex? I want to understand your psychology/way of thinking at the time.



> You are viewing men as "the enemy"... yes, many guys are jerks - but so are women. Its like you are going into battle with the guy you are dating, that doesn't seem healthy ~ and of course, that is a turn-off for the men.


I wasn't trying to give him war but when I see that sex becomes the theme of dating/relationship and it feels more sexual than needed. At that point, I question his interest about me. That's when my sexual appeal decreases. 



> Getting mad = immature. Bored and leaves you should be the norm. Sorry, but us MEN can give you non-sexual LOVE after the sex. Again, for MEN - once we know we can get sex from the woman (you) AND we do like you as a possible girlfriend. Then we'll want to date you more, do NON-SEXUAL things with you. But if he comes back only for sex (like the local woman in my story), then that is all it is to him... come by for an hour or so then leaves = player. Then you know where to go from there.


Fair.



> Ph, the anger part could be that the guy felt like you PLAYED him for free dinner and drinks and all he was to you is a wallet.


?? What guy?? 



> If you are not having orgasms, that is also a turn off for men... Being wound up and not letting your body relax, is likely keeping you from having the orgazm. Remember, locate a sex therapist.


Yeah, I didn't feel relaxed. I was more concerned of what he was thinking about me while having sex..
Also, what do I need a sex therapist now that I'm not having sex. It's like theory without practice. I consider it a was of time only *at this moment.*



> I was worried about living my 30s without having a girlfriend or sex. So I made a change, reduced my rules... dating all kinds of women, because how WOULD I KNOW what I like if I didn't sample the buffet?


Reduce my rules huh? 
:|



> You ever do that? Go to a new restaurant and TRY a platter or buffet of food to see what you like? I do that all parties, especially weddings. I take a finger/bite of everything from the buffet... see what I like, then fill my plate with the stuff I know I like.


I should start to consider dating that way..



> Here is a simple question: If a man had a 2" (5 centimeter) penis, when erect. Would that be acceptable?
> Imagine if you dated a handsome and rich guy for months, finally had sex with him - and that is what he has between his legs. If you leave, then you would have wasted much of each others time.


Yeah, fair enough.



> Dating a man a year... is not working. And without plans for marriage and children... you are missing out on your own enjoyment for the wrong reasons.


Yeah, it's the "missing the fun" what worries me. If I don't enjoy and use my body for sex now that I'm young and fresh and free...then when will I do that? When I get old and no man would want to look at me? 
:scratchhead:

I'm in a battle between mind and body.


----------



## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> I don't know..but do I have to give him love-making to keep him from going elsewhere?
> I'm not a policewoman. He's free to go if he feels like going. I can't control his actions but I can control my reaction to his actions.


No... you share in love-making if its something you feel like doing. Rather than putting a BIG STOP sign in front of you - because you think it'll prove something. If all he wants his sex... then you'll know earlier. Use it for practice. I have no ability to gauge your sexual abilities. Anyone can have sex, but doesn't mean everyone is sexually compatible. You are not relaxed or comfortable with sex another person. You may have other issues... strong religious household growing up? A dad that cheated on your mom? CSA? Abuse?

Look at buying or borrowing these books:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliapugac...our-sex-life?utm_term=.myAy3ZEr59#.wdxBgw580G

https://www.amazon.com/Elusive-Orgasm-Womans-Guide-Cant/dp/1600940234

https://www.amazon.com/Because-Feels-Good-Pleasure-Satisfaction/dp/160529876X

https://www.amazon.com/Womans-Book-Orgasm-Ultimate-Pleasure/dp/0806519665




> No no. I'm not like that. I'm usually flirty with guys in the club. Then they either offer me a drink or start chatting. With guys I'm having mutual interest, I flirt/talk back. But it usually stays there as I don't feel like taking them too seriously. The guy who wanted me to give him oral in my car, was one who I knew at the club. I'm not saying everyone's like him...but most are.


You don't or shouldn't take anyone seriously at first. I meet a girl at club A, I'll take her to club B for a date. You still create your own roadblock. Have fun, be safe. I've been offered many BJs meeting women at clubs - without asking for them. I remember a woman who did that suddenly... later she felt some shame for it. I told her not to, I thanked her and we were F-buddies (booty call) for each other for 6 months ~ stayed friends for a few years. There was no way we would be GF/BF - but we could be friends with benefits. We both taught each other things - sexually and not. She taught me different types of drinks and I taught her sexual freedom. 

The car-BJ guy... he is "like most"? How many guys have you had sex with to come up with that? Yeah, most guys like getting BJs. Doesn't mean most guys are going to demand that from someone they know who they are dating. Rejecing him or any guy like that - is by all means, your right. Remember, for many women, a BJ is easier to offer than their vagina. No chance of pregnancy. And by many women, doesn't count as "sex".



> Advice me what to do and where to start from, then.
> Starting from tomorrow. I'll follow your advice. BUT I don't want to get laid without any condition...as I don't want to look/act like I'm desperate. I don't like that role.


You've got my advice? Not saying go out tomorrow and have sex with the first guy you meet. And *NO* - you are not going to just start being different in a day. Read some of the books I have provided links for. You need to do a lot of thinking about yourself. It will take a while for you to figure out what you may want to do and what rules you may be willing to change. You could be naked at a party, but that doesn't MEAN you must provide sex to anyone who wants it. BTW, I have been nude at some parties and outdoor concerts and there be women naked or semi naked. Even with that, nobody touches another person without ASKING first. So yeah, at a sex parties - people don't DEMAND sex from others. You could be at a church, everyone fully clothed and someone come up to you and demand sex from another person.

Having sex when you barely know someone doesn't necessarily make you look desperate. If you are are begging for sex, then that would look desperate. If you are 40yrs old and want a child, but don't have a boyfriend - you'll be desperate. Being relaxed with yourself and open to meeting various kinds of men - even those you may not have thought before - does give you control and insight to things you may like. 

A respectable man is not usually attracted to desperate women.


----------



## Diana7

lovelygirl, I think you are trying it find a good man in the wrong places, and honestly, if any man is put off by you not wanting sex till things are more serious he simply isn't worth it. I know young ladies who have ended relationships because of pressure from the guy to have sex, and I say, good for them. Dont be something you are not. Don't do anything just to keep a man, because in the end he wont stick around. Do you want a man who treats you with respect or one who uses you? Do you want a man who may well have an STD or one who saves sex for serious relationships/marriage? My husband is a doctor and he says that stds are rife but its never in the news. For whatever reason its kept largely quiet. 

Save sex for the man who will love you and treat you well. Who will be glad that you haven't had multiple partners. Its worth the wait, and you will get rid of a lot of guys on the way who really care nothing for you at all. You are a valuable person, don't let yourself be used and taken advantage of.


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## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> I don't think I can agree with that. We know plenty of stories which started out as simple sex/FWB and ended in relationships/marriage. The latest (that I know of) is @RandomDude 's story.
> 
> 
> Just like there are stories where guys fell in love with prostitutes...


I don't understand what you can't agree with... a married man can still view his wife as a sex object. I had more respect for a woman I had sex with who bumped into me on a dance floor than her husband of 10+ years that she had recently divorced. So what if FWB turns into LTR / marriage? That happens and its usually a good thing.

Sure, there are men who may fall in love with a prostitute. They are still human. But easily MOST men will never date, much less marry their prostitute ~ and when it does happen, she is seeing it more as a money thing... his wallet. I've NEVER ever paid for sex. Not including tip money at stripper clubs - again, very rare for me to do, I think about 6 times in my life. But in reality, men don't think of prositutes more than anything that a penis warmer.



> Why would he be worried about that? I never mention marriage/kids while dating. I have never had this talk with any of the guys I've dated.
> As I said, it starts out as a sex object but turns into more than that. We've all heard about these cases.
> Just like it starts out as love and turns into plain sex as the couple realizes that any sort of relationship won't take them anywhere, so they're satisfied with simply being FWB.


Actions speak more than words. There is a LOT we may think about - that we will not bring up... do you tell them men everything about you? How you feel about things? Or why you are holding off 10+ dates?

If a loving relationship turns into just a sexual relationship (FWB) - that would be an oddly rare thing. There is usually a breakup before reverting down to FWB. You know... divorce. I would not be interested in being with my wife if it was just FWB. And FWB relations has 3 different possibilities: 
1 - One of them wants more than FWB = breakup of FWB and or friendship. (done that)
2 - FWB fades away over time... as one or both are dating others. Reverts back to friends.
3 - One of them meets and falls in love with someone, ends FWB.

FWB is generally a good way to get your sexual needs met, without feelings like JUST a sex... until you meet someone you really really like. FWB is rarely a long term thing. I do know a FWB couple who kind of act like a married couple - lets see, 10+ years now. They live together, they date and have sex with others. Its an oddity... but it seems to work for them.

The following is general: Look at other posts her from guys, both those who have been cheated on and other areas on this site. You will notice that us MEN have feelings. Our hearts get broken. We are talking about a lot more than just "sex". My wife having sex with her affair partner when she was cheating hurt, but her lying, her betrayal, gaslighting me to my face. Causing confusion and other abuse - that was the worst. She put me in the hospital twice because my body was falling apart, my heart trying to kill itself from the anguish. We are human.. and also like to sometimes be thought of more than just a penis. But hey, I have nothing against male-strippers... but to the women who go to those close, they are just sex objects... as humans, we are still rather basic.



> Yeah, I want to apply (to the men I meet nowadays) the same psychology/attitude that I used towards the gym guy in the past ..but for some reason I can't apply it to all my dates.


Read the recommend books, self-analyse yourself... talk to a therapist. You're going to have to do some work on that. That's not going with the flow. When you meet a NEW guy, you like him - take him at face value with NO expectations beyond the next day or so - until otherwise proven. You have no issues running into the gym guy and saying "good afternoon" - right? That works with anyone - who is respectable.

Create a list of things that are a MUST vs things that are a "NO WAY".
Example:
1 - He is attractive.
2 - Does hair color matter? If he's attractive, then no.
3 - Does he smell bad?
4 - Does he sound like an idiot?
5 - Is he being rude vs courting?
6 - How does he carry himself?
7 - How does he treat others?
8 - Would I be willing to have sex with him? (if yes = then be receptive to him, no road blocks).

You dance with him (do you dance). If you are more horny than not, or not viewing him as a BF material - but still attractive - then you can OKAY sex, get your needs met (like Gym guy). Even tell him, you're not looking for anything more. I met a very striking woman like that in a club - it was the 2nd or 3rd thing out of her mouth "I just want to get laid" - so I was like "cool, I'm game". We ended up talking until the sun came up, holding hands. We were a semi-serious item for those few months. But she has substance abuse issues and racial issues with her parents vs. me.

If you see this guy as NSA, it allows you to ask him questions about your sexual abilties and ask for advice on getting better. Because YOU DON'T see him as a boyfriend - see him as practice and get input. Wouldn't hurt to ask... and tell him to be honest. Remember, what one guy likes, will not be the same as nother - same for women.

If you meet a guy at a club or other place and think he maybe pretty good, do the date thing. If you are dating a man, it means you are ALREADY willing to have sex with him. Its just a matter of the dates reducing the chances. Don't worry so much about sex so much... if you want to touch him, do so. If after 3~5 dates you are not wanting to get naked with him... then cut him lose.

Touching hands, looking into their eyes... talking should be turn-ons. Looking into my wife's eyes that first night, did it for me.



> Yeah, I don't feel regrets. Actually, I never really think about the sex we had. It's as if it was pretty normal.
> 
> Yep. I think you said they dated a few times before she had sex with him... then gone. It could be because he wanted to add a notch to his list or he didn't like the sex with her.


Yep... that is how I am with the 100+ women I've been. I can only think about a few of them I can remember. There are GF i've had that I don't remember their names. I remember a few long-gone booty calls. Yeah, if someone sucks in bed - I (and many guys) will not say anything - hell, same for women. Just don't call back... is easier than saying "you are a lame lay".

When a guy wakes up in the morning with YOU, without your makeup on - and he calls back... he likes you.




> Interesting.Can you explain what it was that you disliked about her way of talking/wanting to have sex? I want to understand your psychology/way of thinking at the time.


She sounded like a porn actress. "harder harder" - she talked way too much. I didn't really care much for her fake breasts, even thou they were very well done. She was more interested in just sex when I was more on the market for a girlfriend. We didn't fit together right, how she communicated wasn't doing it for me. Sex was akward, overall, didn't like her she moved - just not enjoyable. I don't remember much. A 3rd date or 30 dates - my opinion of her wouldn't have changed. I was not turned. It wasn't her looks, because she would be considered a "9" - but I've had better sex and more enjoyable time with others who were average looking and or heavier. There simply wasn't much there. Yet about 1~2 weeks later, I meet my future wife and its fireworks from the first kiss. We clicked. We were being ourselves and had fun.

If you date rarely, your pool of meeting possible love is reduced. Also, mr. perfect maybe married to someone else. Also, Mr. Perfect for YOU - maybe gay or you are not his type of woman - well beyond your control.
There is NO SUCH THING as the PERFECT man or PERFECT woman. It will never ever EVER happen.



> I wasn't trying to give him war but when I see that sex becomes the theme of dating/relationship and it feels more sexual than needed. At that point, I question his interest about me. That's when my sexual appeal decreases.


I wasn't being specific any particular man. Dating / relationship *IS ALWAYS* sexual. Just saying, once the guy has sex access, you'll see more of the real him.



> ?? What guy??


Any guy... who is paying for 10~20 dates and no sex.



> Yeah, I didn't feel relaxed. I was more concerned of what he was thinking about me while having sex..
> Also, what do I need a sex therapist now that I'm not having sex. It's like theory without practice. I consider it a was of time only *at this moment.*


You need a sex therapist BECAUSE you're not having sex. They are not there to tell you that THING A goes into SLOT B. They are to help you figure out why you have sex and relationship issues. You not feeling relax = sexual problem. You can't worry so much what he is thinking... you have to have fun with the moment and help him have fun doing it. Again, well past the ability of this forum.



> Reduce my rules huh?
> :|
> 
> I should start to consider dating that way..


Whatever you may call them... rules, bullet points... I have my rules: No cocaine, no rape, no murder, and what I would find acceptable to date. With that, I reduced the number of women I could ask out for a date. And of course, they would have to be available and interested in me. Without practice, I was more nervous than not. So - if you met Mr. Perfect, but was a nervous wreck and kept him at arm's length for 2 months - you might never have known because your lack of confidence and "game playing" would be a turn off. Whatever spark he might have had for you - snuffed out. Maybe he's HD too... but thinks you're LD or ND.



> Yeah, it's the "missing the fun" what worries me. If I don't enjoy and use my body for sex now that I'm young and fresh and free...then when will I do that? When I get old and no man would want to look at me?
> :scratchhead: I'm in a battle between mind and body.


Yep. I missed out on a lot of sex in my 20s, but also - I didn't get anyone pregnant. I've dated women up to about 50, when in my 30s... but we knew it was for sex. As we get older (men and women) our ability to get someone who is as attractive as we want, lowers. Unless of course, you are super-rich in which case you can buy young hotties or hunks.

Yep... you are in battle. Read books, talk to a therapist.

Sex and love are two different things. They are connected, but separate. I enjoyed the NSA sex I had over the years... but I also enjoy the loving sex or just cuddling in front of the tv with the wife.


----------



## TaDor

Speaking of aging...

My wife is still rather young looking, but she looks older today than she did 5 years ago and more so when she was 20 or 16. We have photos in our home... she sometimes look like her 16 yr old glamor photo I like... but well.. older  We all get old. If I was currently on the market, my likely dating age is 30~45 yr old women. Of course, I'd be interested in women who are in their upper 20s. But I'd have easier results with women who are my age, 40~50... but since I don't do drugs or heavy drinking, I still look like someone in their 30s. 

Check out this video of 4 sisters - every year from 1975 ~ 2010, they were just getting out of HS or into college when they started taking the photos.





Actual photos: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/03/magazine/01-brown-sisters-forty-years.html

You won't be 29 again...


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## TaDor

Here is the other things to keep in mind.

Are you okay with dating a man with Kid(s)? As you get older, your dating pool also ages. ie: Today, you'll get more 30yr old men hitting on you than 20 yr old men. In 5 years, the men will be 40+ years old and less 20~25yr old men... if any.

You don't have kids, so that would be attractive to a man who is 30~50yrs old who may or may not want kids - wants a wife, who doesn't have children baggage. (we all have baggage - including you). So lets say a man is 35yrs old and is dating YOU at 30yrs old and a 26 yr old with two kids. You are both equally attractive and socially compatible. You would have more value because you don't have kids. not have to deal with an ex-BF or husband, etc.

But what about you and the men? It works the same way... let's say you date two men at the same time... one has 2 kids, the other doesn't. That would likely affect your choice. I've had date/relationship with women with 0~3 kids, from 0~25yrs old children. It was always easier to date the one with the lease amount of kids... with no kids, easiest.


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## TaDor

I also recommend a book called " His Needs, Her Needs " by Dr. Harley - While it's about making a stronger affair-proof marriage, he still writes about the differences in men and women, how to communicate their needs and how we tick. (in general - like anything, there are many degrees of people)

Some text from the book - I've condensed part of a section: *"When it comes to sex and affection, you can't have one without the other"*_ (this doesn't apply to NSA or ONS sex of course)_
*Often men view affection as part of sexual foreplay and usually arouses him in a flash. He assumes that it has the same purpose and rapid effect on a woman. So the only time these men are affectionate is when they want to make love. But this kind of affection does not communicate, "I care about you" Instead it communicates, "I want sex" instead of giving, its taking. That selfish message is not lost on most women who crave affection.

The disparity between men and women in regard to the priority of their needs makes it difficult for the two sexes to empathize with each other. "why" each asks the other "are these things so important to you?" Because of this lack of understanding, the couple unknowingly works at cross-purposes, each trying to fulfill the needs he or she feels, not the needs the mate feels. Wives shower their husbands with affection while husbands smother their wives with sexual advances because of their own needs that they want so much of. Each becomes confused when the mate response with mild pleasure at best and at worst, become annoyed, irritated or frigid. *

Even when married, men and women still think differently. Even thou we may love you - it is the way men do. Same for women, so the thing to learn is to meet each other in the middle. This is how players - play women, they pull their strings of affection to get into their panties and will not care about anything else. A man who really cares will more naturally touch her strings to her heart. This is what I mean about dating a lot more, to learn what is real, etc. And that when you hold yourself back, you are killing a possible relationship.

I still have more reading to do.. bye.


----------



## RandomDude

lovelygirl said:


> I don't think I can agree with that. We know plenty of stories which started out as simple sex/FWB and ended in relationships/marriage. The latest (that I know of) is @RandomDude 's story.


Yeah, she got promoted 

Still together, somehow, which is quite odd considering my pattern post-divorce.


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## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> I also recommend a book called " His Needs, Her Needs " by Dr. Harley - While it's about making a stronger affair-proof marriage, he still writes about the differences in men and women, how to communicate their needs and how we tick. (in general - like anything, there are many degrees of people)
> 
> Some text from the book - I've condensed part of a section: *"When it comes to sex and affection, you can't have one without the other"*_ (this doesn't apply to NSA or ONS sex of course)_
> *Often men view affection as part of sexual foreplay and usually arouses him in a flash. He assumes that it has the same purpose and rapid effect on a woman. So the only time these men are affectionate is when they want to make love. But this kind of affection does not communicate, "I care about you" Instead it communicates, "I want sex" instead of giving, its taking. That selfish message is not lost on most women who crave affection.
> 
> The disparity between men and women in regard to the priority of their needs makes it difficult for the two sexes to empathize with each other. "why" each asks the other "are these things so important to you?" Because of this lack of understanding, the couple unknowingly works at cross-purposes, each trying to fulfill the needs he or she feels, not the needs the mate feels. Wives shower their husbands with affection while husbands smother their wives with sexual advances because of their own needs that they want so much of. Each becomes confused when the mate response with mild pleasure at best and at worst, become annoyed, irritated or frigid. *
> 
> Even when married, men and women still think differently. Even thou we may love you - it is the way men do. Same for women, so the thing to learn is to meet each other in the middle. This is how players - play women, they pull their strings of affection to get into their panties and will not care about anything else. A man who really cares will more naturally touch her strings to her heart. This is what I mean about dating a lot more, to learn what is real, etc. And that when you hold yourself back, you are killing a possible relationship.
> 
> I still have more reading to do.. bye.


I've been thinking the exact same way as the author has described in the book (I haven't read it yet).
Men need sex to feel loved, women need affection to feel loved. Who pleases whom first? If he doesn't give me the affection that I want, I won't please him in bed. If he's not pleased in bed, I won't get the affection I want. 
So?? Nobody gets what they want in the end.

Lucky is the couple who gives and takes back reciprocally.


----------



## Thundarr

lovelygirl said:


> Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age. Plus, I'm tired of meaningless dating. I want something real.
> I swear, if I had a stable partner, I wouldn't mind giving him any kind of pleasure, although I know I need some more practice.
> 
> Were there times that you dated a girl you thought would be a "beast" in bed but turned out to be the opposite?
> Did you make fun of her (in your mind?)
> Did you feel disappointed?
> Did you comment it with your friends?
> 
> These are my concerns. Probably, you'd make fun of them too haha..


Hi lovelygirl,
I think you're sabotaging yourself. If you're the girl he wants to be with for the rest of his life then he's going to think sex with you is perfect. Not because you gyrated your hips at 3.14 revolutions per second but because you're with him and you're who he wants. You can probably relate if you think about who sex was good with. More than likely it was with someone you felt connected to or someone you were hysterically bonding too. The point is that "good in bed" is greatly influenced by emotion. Much more so than physics.

You said "Unless I find someone stable, I feel like I will remain sexless out of fear for being considered "inexperienced" compared to the guys/girls of my age". Your fear should be that if you find someone stable then you will remain sexless out of fear. You seem to have a lot of sexual insecurities and it may be why you haven't found or recognized the right guy.


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## jld

Thundarr said:


> If you're the girl he wants to be with for the rest of his life then he's going to think sex with you is perfect. Not because you gyrated your hips at 3.14 revolutions per second but because you're with him and you're who he wants. You can probably relate if you think about who sex was good with. More than likely it was with someone you felt connected to or someone you were hysterically bonding too. The point is that "good in bed" is greatly influenced by emotion. Much more so than physics.


:iagree:


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## jld

lovelygirl said:


> I've been thinking the exact same way as the author has described in the book (I haven't read it yet).
> Men need sex to feel loved, women need affection to feel loved. Who pleases whom first? If he doesn't give me the affection that I want, I won't please him in bed. If he's not pleased in bed, I won't get the affection I want.
> So?? Nobody gets what they want in the end.
> 
> Lucky is the couple who gives and takes back reciprocally.


I think he needs to inspire her to please him. It is nature's way of balancing the power in a couple.


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## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> I've been thinking the exact same way as the author has described in the book (I haven't read it yet).
> Men need sex to feel loved, women need affection to feel loved. Who pleases whom first? If he doesn't give me the affection that I want, I won't please him in bed. If he's not pleased in bed, I won't get the affection I want.
> So?? Nobody gets what they want in the end.
> 
> Lucky is the couple who gives and takes back reciprocally.


You are making it way more complicated than it should be - overthinking it. Have you attempted to look for a therapist?

Met future wife > kissed > we both want sex - we both have sex > Dating > fall in love > marriage

You:

Met guy > Date & prove your intentions > prove your intentions > we both want sex - but I deny both of sex > Date & prove your intentions > we both want sex - but I deny both of sex > prove your intentions > we both want sex - but I deny both of sex > guy is bored - seeks other women > You angry with self.


Someone needs to make the first move... you're stopping yourself and you stop him.


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## TheTruthHurts

TaDor said:


> Met future wife > kissed > we both want sex - we both have sex > Dating > fall in love > marriage



I like this. Since I was inexperienced like @lovelygirl, was more like:

Met a cute girl > had to ask her out > went to my dorm room > kissed passionately > spent as much time together as possible and talked and listened > made out and experimented sexually > became a couple 

So I don't think sex has to be immediate but sexual attraction should be. The sexual tension creates interest. Interest promotes communication. Communication creates closeness. Closeness manifests in sex.

Trust will come with dialog and opening yourself up to the possibility of a relationship.

Any sexual contact within the framework above is MORE than welcome and will be fabulous.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TaDor

Yep... it can work in many different ways. But if no steps are done, or they are repetitive and not advancing... nothing happens. Man or woman will get bored and just move on.

Same chart for getting laid once.

Met a woman after club closed talking casually - fun > I was horny and slightly drunk nothing to do next day so said in a joking "I never had sex with your ethnic type" her reply: "Let's get that taken care of" > followed her to her place and did fun nasty things. 

There was no kissing before to lead up for sex.


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## TaDor

@lovelygirl

I almost posted on the FWB thread on this, but it belongs here.

I have not changed my mind on my suggestions to you... make it into something that works for you. I meant it that I understand where you are coming from. I really have no regrets from the good and bad experiences of being a party animal. Many of my friend and buddies know of my antics - hell, they have video or pics (as I do on some of them) - which is like "HEY! Send me a copy!" You are still young, you are single. You are pretty much free to do what you want, your fantasies are open to you - just use protection and be safe. My sex number is well north of 100, actually, it is likely north of 200. I used to keep count until about 150+. Do math: club/party everyweekend (2 days a week) x 4 weeks, may result in 1~6 new sex partners a month. x 52 weeks a year = 50~300 new sex partners a year... right? well, not exactly.
So yeah, even I may not get laid at all for a month or I may have sex with 6 different women over one weekend. I maybe in a relationship with a woman, even OR - means I'm NOT so active for others. I did have GF here and there.

You can meet a very nice and honest man at an orgy as well as you can meet a jerk child molester at a church... A lot of people have fake fronts. Or a "work face" - like when you buy stuff from a store and everyone is nice, etc. But if you meet them on the street, they would be indifferent to you and walk on by.

Why fo I know where you are coming from?
From age 20~30, I had a single ONS and dated 3 women. Out of those, I only had sex with two of them (ONS, of course, is one of them). The one I dated - we had sex 5 times. I only wanted to date someone that would be a GF - just the ONE woman for me. Sound familiar? Why were all these guys getting laid, getting GF, getting wives - but not me? Some of these guys were big, or fat or not all that attractive - yet had nice or even hot women. Turning 30 was a wake up call. I wasn't getting anywhere, I was lonely and I wanted to be in love. Had a miserable GF at 31... little sex, but I was "in love" for the wrong reasons and thought I was in love... My lack of relationship experience blinded me from reality, but still - she was a part of my history of learning how to date.

So it took me about a year to re-program myself as best I could to NOT be shy, to start talking to women, to open myself to date women who did not fit my "perfect ideal". With that I found out that all kinds of different people like different things - yet have feelings and desires and drama like everyone else. So from age 31~40, I had 200+ sexual partners, I still had dates that did not result in sex or relationship, each failure was a learning lesson. I would think of where I went wrong. Each positive thing I liked, I filed in my memory of what I would like in a girlfriend. When I met my wife, she blew me away. Was she my "ideal woman" I spent my 20's and early 30's looking for? Nope. Not even close. Why? Because my fantasy partner did not exist. It never does, for anyone.

Even when my wife cheated on me, it broke my heart. I did start dating when we broke up, meet some good but also and scary women, I had sex with some. But I still wanted my wife - I gave her a chance and we are doing good today.

Go out... meet guys. Learn what you like.


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## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> You are making it way more complicated than it should be - overthinking it. Have you attempted to look for a therapist?


Not yet.
I don't even know what to talk about with the sex therapist. 
Probably I'd need a psychologist or something ...who'd help me be more carefree.

Actually, now that I'm thinking...I'm very carefree as a person but when it comes to sex with a guy I date.. I start detaching.



> You:
> 
> Met guy > Date & prove your intentions > prove your intentions > we both want sex - but I deny both of sex > Date & prove your intentions > we both want sex - but I deny both of sex > prove your intentions > we both want sex - but I deny both of sex > guy is bored - seeks other women > You angry with self.


Because the guy doesn't inspire me to go on further so I go back to square one.


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## harrybrown

I would like that she is at least trying.

especially when all I get is duty sex.


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## TheTruthHurts

@lovelygirl Wait - why are they not worth pursuing further. Please talk about what makes it all meh after being with them. Why don't they inspire you? No mystery? Boring? What?



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## TaDor

lovelygirl said:


> Not yet.
> I don't even know what to talk about with the sex therapist.
> Probably I'd need a psychologist or something ...who'd help me be more carefree.


Okay, start with a psychologist / therapist. You can also ask them to refer you to a sex therapist as well.
You talk to them about relationship issues. Tell them a guy 8000 miles away in America told you to see a doc. Tell them what you want to do, why you aren't doing it, tell them what you told us. Cause you're not getting anything.



> Actually, now that I'm thinking...I'm very carefree as a person but when it comes to sex with a guy I date.. I start detaching.
> 
> Because the guy doesn't inspire me to go on further so I go back to square one.


And you don't know why... and perhaps you don't inspire the guy to go further either... think about that? You only hurt you.
Either do something about it, or stay the way you are and plan this way of living will continue for another 10~20~30 years... maybe until you meet a guy whose penis doesn't work.
Also, maybe you like women?


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## lovelygirl

TaDor said:


> Okay, start with a psychologist / therapist. You can also ask them to refer you to a sex therapist as well.
> You talk to them about relationship issues. Tell them a guy 8000 miles away in America told you to see a doc. Tell them what you want to do, why you aren't doing it, tell them what you told us. Cause you're not getting anything.
> 
> 
> And you don't know why... and perhaps you don't inspire the guy to go further either... think about that? You only hurt you.
> Either do something about it, or stay the way you are and plan this way of living will continue for another 10~20~30 years... maybe until you meet a guy whose penis doesn't work.
> *Also, maybe you like women?*


No. That's not the case at all. 

But I'll see what I can do with the psychologist.


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## TaDor

I think that is your best bet. Don't forget books at the same time or before you see a doc.

Only person that can change YOU.... is YOU. You want to get this sorted out now, not when you are 50.


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## lovelygirl

@TaDor I'm seeing a guy from the gym. We've had crushes on each other for more than a year now...but he was already in a relationship until a few months ago.

So, apart from the fact that we see each other 3 times a week at the gym, we've gone out on dates 2 times until now and we've made out (just kissing and touching/no sex) in his car.

Last night, we were drinking coffee and during a discussion about sex experiences he said .."..you're already experienced now and you know what you want. There's nothing to explore about your self in respect with a guy. But for guys, they're quite curious until their 30s. After that age, they're able to know themselves better.."

He's 4 years younger than me (26). He assumes I already know my self and my sexual needs when I'm with a guy. This made me feel like I wanted to run away. If we happen to sleep together, I'm afraid he'll get disappointed.


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## WilliamM

He might be disappointed. His attitude is really weird, in my opinion.

Also, maybe you are in too big a hurry. Although, so was I.

You only need to find one good man. Perhaps you need to spend more time vetting men to find one who may be a possible lifetime mate before having sex again. Casual sex may not be right for you.

A guy should be adventurous, inquisitive, and not opinionated about your sexual adventures. You sure don't want him thinking you are a woman of low morals after you get married, and have him loose respect for you. It sounds like he already thinks you are pretty wild. I would love that about my wife, but many men would not.


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## lovelygirl

WilliamM said:


> He might be disappointed. His attitude is really weird, in my opinion.
> 
> Also, maybe you are in too big a hurry. Although, so was I.
> 
> You only need to find one good man. Perhaps you need to spend more time vetting men to find one who may be a possible lifetime mate before having sex again. Casual sex may not be right for you.
> 
> A guy should be adventurous, inquisitive, and not opinionated about your sexual adventures. You sure don't want him thinking you are a woman of low morals after you get married, and have him loose respect for you. It sounds like he already thinks you are pretty wild.


I'm very flirty around him and kinky as well. He thinks I'm quite confident in bed or even "wild". 
I am flirty by nature, but not necessarily confident in bed because of my lack of experiences.

He doesn't think I'm loose but surely there's a part of me that he finds attractive and sexy.(He said so.) This gives him the idea that I know what I want. (Which isn't true yet...)



> I would love that about my wife, but many men would not.


Strange how you say that. Most men complain and wished their wives were wilder and dominant.


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## WilliamM

Sadly, men say they want a wife who likes sex, but when the wife wants sex they call her sex crazed. They say she is a woman of low morals, and they are ashamed of her. It happens over and over. It's just weird.

It's called the Madonna complex.

https://sites.psu.edu/aspsy/2015/10/03/madonna-*****-complex/

They want a woman who likes sex, but if their woman likes sex, she must be a woman of low morals. It's a terrible circle.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

WilliamM said:


> Sadly, men say they want a wife who likes sex, but when the wife wants sex they call her sex crazed. They say she is a woman of low morals, and they are ashamed of her. It happens over and over. It's just weird.
> 
> It's called the Madonna complex.
> 
> https://sites.psu.edu/aspsy/2015/10/03/madonna-*****-complex/
> 
> They want a woman who likes sex, but if their woman likes sex, she must be a woman of low morals. It's a terrible circle.


I know nobody who thinks this way. Every man I know would praise/be thankful a woman with high drive and express nary a bit of judgement for them being that way (so long as that drive was reserved for their husband and their husband only)


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## WilliamM

There are dozens of posts on this site from women whose husbands have insulted them by saying they are oversexed.

There's a recent thread on this site by a man who is ashamed of his wife for her past sexual encounters, when he was fully aware of them before he married her.

There are threads on this site by men who have complained their wives are oversexed.

Just because some people chose to ignore those posts does not mean they do not exist.

That's this site alone. The awareness of the complex is as old as the study of psychology.


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## WilliamM

This site states it in more lay terms, although I do not know of the validity of their interpretation because I have not vetted the site.

http://www.retroactivejealousycrusher.com/madonna-*****-complex/

The issue is a significant issue, though.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

WilliamM said:


> There are dozens of posts on this site from women whose husbands have insulted them by saying they are oversexed.
> 
> There's a recent thread on this site by a man who is ashamed of his wife for her past sexual encounters, when he was fully aware of them before he married her.
> 
> There are threads on this site by men who have complained their wives are oversexed.
> 
> Just because some people chose to ignore those posts does not mean they do not exist.
> 
> That's this site alone. The awareness of the complex is as old as the study of psychology.


But the complaint of being oversexed is the typical HD/LD disconnect, not a moral judgment. You originally said "men say they want a wife who likes sex, but when the wife wants sex they call her sex crazed. They say she is a woman of low morals, and they are ashamed of her." These men may complain that their wives want it more than them, but it's not like they're ****shaming their wives. I have seen such posts where men complain about how much sex their wives want, but they are not in those posts claiming their wives to be "of low morals." Of course, if their wives desires lead them astray, then a "low morals" judgment is appropriate, but your post was worded so as to indicate sex in the marriage, not outside it. 

I stand by the contention that men who would disparage their wives for wanting a high level of sexual activity, so long as they do it within the confines of the marriage, are exceedingly rare. the only reason I can fathom is some sort of fundamentalist religious extremism (as was discussed on another similar thread). Wacky doctrine aside, no sane man would do this. 

When I read your post, "a recent thread on this site by a man who is ashamed of his wife for her past sexual encounters, when he was fully aware of them before he married her." immediately sprang to mind, but it's N/A here. As you note, he was well aware of this before he married her; he only chose to hold it against her after they got married! If it was a problem, he shouldn't have married her in the first place. Most importantly, this refers to life before their union. Again, your post seemed to refer to sex within the union.


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## WilliamM

The Original Poster can look into it if she wishes to.

I maintain many men who are supposedly Low Drive in a marriage are displaying the Madonna complex, especially if they are subsequently found to be cheating. That is very common. The OP needs to read every post in the Ladies Lounge about women living in sexless marriages.

I also maintain nearly every case of retroactive jealousy, by men about a wife's known or later learned prior relationships, is also Madonna complex.

Men want to have sex with girls of low morals. Men want to marry sweet innocent girls. It leads to a world of hurt.


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## WilliamM

When a wife reports that her husband called her sex crazed, or any of several other choice descriptions I have read on this site, I cannot see that as anything but **** shaming.

Unless of course, one were to very selectively read this site, avoiding posts by women who are in sexless marriages, women attempting to improve their sex lives, or women who have discovered their husbands cheating on them and avoiding sex with them.

Anyone who calls someone sex crazed is **** shaming, in my book.


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## lovelygirl

WilliamM said:


> Sadly, men say they want a wife who likes sex, but when the wife wants sex they call her sex crazed. They say she is a woman of low morals, and they are ashamed of her. It happens over and over. It's just weird.
> 
> It's called the Madonna complex.
> 
> https://sites.psu.edu/aspsy/2015/10/03/madonna-*****-complex/
> 
> They want a woman who likes sex, but if their woman likes sex, she must be a woman of low morals. It's a terrible circle.


The link doesn't work.



WilliamM said:


> There are dozens of posts on this site from women whose husbands have insulted them by saying they are oversexed.
> 
> There's a recent thread on this site by *a man who is ashamed of his wife for her past sexual encounters, when he was fully aware of them before he married her.
> *
> There are threads on this site by men who have complained their wives are oversexed.
> 
> Just because some people chose to ignore those posts does not mean they do not exist.
> 
> That's this site alone. The awareness of the complex is as old as the study of psychology.


Oversexing is different from numerous sexual ex-partners.
The posts you are referring to, may be true but don't make the majority of how men feel in general.
Actually, men crave a sex-crazed woman in bed, one who is adventurous and eager for variety in bed.

As for the past sexual partners, some men still think this is a taboo, but when their now-wife satisfies every sexual desire that these men have, they usually don't care how many partners she's had in the past. They're too focused on the present.


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## WilliamM

I do hope it works well for you.

Sorry to be such a pessimist. It's in my nature. 

I wish you all the best!


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## TaDor

Both men and women have different views on sex. I think many are childish and stupid - based on their actions. Some may agree, others may not. Also, what works for one person doesn't mean it works for everyone. So take all the information and make the best of it based on what you know and what you want.

Yeah, there are childish men who "want more sex" then when he gets it - he complains. Oh well.


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## TaDor

@lovelygirl : What do you want?

There *IS* no mr. 100% Perfect Right out there. we all have flaws, you have flaws. 
Again, you are over-thinking your problem and have unrealistic expectations. The gym guy is a few years younger than you, so what? Okay, he seems to think you know more about life because you are a few years older... that's not unreasonable. Age and X number of times you had sex don't always determine the quality of a lover. I've had so-so sex with those who have kinky experiences, and have great sex with some who only had sex with 2 men and never tried certain things.

So, just do what you want - that you like or would like to do and his response or reaction will tell you IF he likes it. Sorry to say, but for many men - it doesn't take much to please.

A Recent talk with the wife. She brought up how I taught her things she never thought she would ever do or like to do. I Vastly enjoy sex with her since our first time and enjoyed her last night... even if it wasn't kinky.

How to please a man: show up.


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## xxxSHxYZxxx

Just the fact that you are open to talk about sex and eager to please a stable partner will make everything ok. You'll learn to please your partner. If a partner makes fun of you then they aren't what your looking for. Just please don't be like my wife. We had sex a few times before we were married (faith) but she's extremely timid, doesn't like to talk about sex, doesn't like to try new things and frankly she's very selfish in bed. At first it wasn't a big deal because I figured that she would want to learn to please me. Nope. Going on 11 years board in the bed room heading towards a sexless marriage not because I'm not attracted to her but because she is boring and selfish in bed

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