# Old story but advice needed



## LockedOut50 (Aug 9, 2013)

OK ... I did some Googling ... something my wife hates me to do and found this forum. Given I believe in getting advice when possible I thought it would be a good idea to post. Incidentally if my wife found out I was making this post she would be infuriated (curse, tell me to f-off and probably not speak for 1 week).

Now, the issue(s). My wife generally accuses me of cheating or doing something improper fairly regularly. She has always been insecure but it has gotten worse over the years. We've been married for 11 years and together for 15 and have two children 13 and 9. In the past when she would get mad she would simply disappear and then show up only after I begged her to come home. All the mean while the kids would be asking where Mommy was. This week the kids are at my parents visiting their cousins so she picked an appropriate time to blow. This blow up came from me not answering my cell phone when I co-worker called during lunch. I had driven to my wife's office and we were having lunch. We usually don't because we work so far from each other. When the phone rang I rejected the call and we kept talking and eating. FYI ... the co-worker is a woman who works for me. Well thinking nothing of it we have lunch and go back to her office and I kissed her goodbye. Everything seemed normal. That night when I returned from playing basketball she erupted. "Why didn't you answer the phone today?!?!" "What was that about?!?" I told her I was having lunch with you and didn't want to interrupt our time. That made her more angry. "You think I'm f-ing stupid!! I'm not!!"

Some history ... one of her 3 or 4 blow ups last year was around this co-worker. At my company we acknowledge birthdays and company anniversaries. I sent this co-worker an e-card for her birthday as I do all my employees. My wife felt it was inappropriate. I told her check will all the men and women who work in my organization. She of course would not. That resulted in her leaving for 3 days (staying at friends ... not that I verified). 

Fast forward to today. At least she hasn't left this time (that gives me hope). I was going to ask her what she thinks is going on and offer her suggestions to verify or disprove it. She also said she is upset my phone and computer are always locked. I've offered her the passwords. I told her I can't remove them because of the work I do given they are work issued but she can have the logins. She of course calls that "convenient". 

This behavior has built up on me over the years. I haven't told my parents for the fear of how it will change their perception of her. The cursing, screaming, irrational accusations has soured me. I actually made up my mind that I wasn't going to ask her to come back this time. I've had it but thankfully she didn't leave. However now she is not speaking and not answering any calls or messages while only showing up at night. I've just said nothing outside saying nothing is wrong or going on for the last week. I also sent her flowers but the card may not have helped in that I said ... "I may not understand her anger but I only want to make things better and strengthen our relationship" ... love always ... etc ... Now she is saying ... "What the f--k!!! You don't know why I'm mad!?!?!" "Everyone I know says it makes sense!!! Don't insult me by saying you wanted uninterrupted time with me!!! You never do!" 

So with all that ... it probably doesn't sound bad to everyone else but suffice it to say I'm fairly overloaded. Working 70 hours per week, coaching my kids, getting the kids through their own growing pains, trying help keep things up in the house, trying to spend time with wife, dealing with step-son (we have a live in no job 21 year old), etc ... I usually walk on egg shells around my wife because she is easily set off. 

I should close with I've never cheated, touched, called, messaged any woman. I'm the prototypical nice guy. Grew up in the church and I'm dedicated beyond what I probably should be. My wife has "crashed" at ex-boyfriends ... or gone to buy "weed" from ex ... etc ... I should also throw into the mix I don't drink, smoke (anything) but wife does drink (often to excess) and smoke weed on occasion (but seems to be trying to quit that). That in itself causes issues.

I know that is all a lot but I wanted to get things started. Let me know any advice you may have.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

LockedOut50 said:


> I'm the prototypical nice guy.


^ This is the crux of your problem. 

You're experiencing mental abuse from someone who is supposed to love you, and the steps you've been taking don't solve the problem. That means you will have to find a different solution. You have a few choices. You could leave, for instance. But it sounds like you want things to hold together, so you need to look in another direction. You can't change her, but if you change yourself the relationship will change. Beware, though... changing yourself does NOT mean giving in to her. The problem isn't that you're failing to act "right." The problem is that she's abusing you. 

To stop her abusing you, you will have to learn how to set boundaries that protect you from abuse. My suggestions: 

1. Stop trying to fix HER problems. If she's angry, that's her problem unless you agree to make it your problem, too. When her complaints are valid ones and she presents them to you in a reasonable way, then it's fine to make it your problem too, because that's what loving couples do. But when they are unfair accusations or they're brought to you in a way that is demeaning and/or hostile, you should refuse to participate. Participating only gives that kind of behavior power and gives her more reason to act that way whenever she feels anxious, angry, or scared. 

2. Make it clear that cutting off half the world's population for one person's benefit isn't something you are willing to do. You send cards for birthdays. Tell her to learn to live with it. Reassure her that you chose her, and want to be with her, but not under a constant cloud of hostility. Make it clear that her responsibility to the relationship is to support your marriage, just like your responsibility is, and that if that's missing, then it may be time to let go of the marriage. 

3. Remind her that your relationship should be managed by two people... you and her. Her friends and their opinions mean nothing to you. However, if the two of you are unable to achieve this on your own, be willing to seek a marriage counselor - someone with more "knowledge" than opinion, and someone who doesn't have good reason to take her side over yours. 

4. Same idea with your parents. Don't drag them into this until you are actively planning a divorce.

To be honest, even if you make all these changes, there's a good chance you will end up divorced anyway. She sounds like she may have borderline personality disorder. While you can stay married forever (after all, the only requirement is simply not breaking things off!) you will be miserable if she doesn't experience a crisis that prompts HER to want to change herself, too.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

When my marriage initially started to deteriorate and my wife and I argued, I always walked out of the house and would call a female co-worker to meet up for drinks. Nothing ever happened between us but I'm curious as to whether or not you're completely sure she isn't cheating on you.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

She's cheating and has been for a while and is mad at you because you haven't figured it out.

(She's also disgusted with you for many other reasons, like how you could allow your wife to sleep around etc.)


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> She's cheating and has been for a while and is mad at you because you haven't figured it out.
> 
> (She's also disgusted with you for many other reasons, like how you could allow your wife to sleep around etc.)


Have you checked her phone records? Put a var in her car find out what really is going on.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

It sounds like she is projecting big time!


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## LockedOut50 (Aug 9, 2013)

Chris Taylor said:


> When my marriage initially started to deteriorate and my wife and I argued, I always walked out of the house and would call a female co-worker to meet up for drinks. Nothing ever happened between us but I'm curious as to whether or not you're completely sure she isn't cheating on you.


So not entirely sure. I'm a realist. Previously, last year, during one of her binges she spent the night at her ex-boyfriends. She said I was lucky and I didn't know how good she had been. Obviously I could take that one of two ways. I told contacting Ex ... going to his house ... is all bad. I also told her if she didn't want to be married or wanted to see someone else let me know. We could end it. I guess in retrospect she could be letting me know non-directly. Anyone that drinks themselves to oblivion, in my book, has some type of issue (attempt to escape, etc.) and or is an alcoholic. However, I should say she has cut that back to next to nothing in the last 6 months and over the last 45 days has cut out the weed (except once). She does have a medical marijuana card (a joke here) that she got for her "hurt" back. I had asked her to do that to one make it legal and two stop the contact with her Ex who was a supplier.

Is she cheating ... I hope not. Is she cheating now ... I doubt it but not impossible (70/30 against). Has she cheated ... (60/40 for). That is my opinion ... no specific undeniable facts behind it.


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## LockedOut50 (Aug 9, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> ^ This is the crux of your problem.
> 
> You're experiencing mental abuse from someone who is supposed to love you, and the steps you've been taking don't solve the problem. That means you will have to find a different solution. You have a few choices. You could leave, for instance. But it sounds like you want things to hold together, so you need to look in another direction. You can't change her, but if you change yourself the relationship will change. Beware, though... changing yourself does NOT mean giving in to her. The problem isn't that you're failing to act "right." The problem is that she's abusing you.
> 
> ...



Hey great post! I learned a lot her ... your perspective is valuable. 

1. I agree based on what a good friend has told me. I focus on solving problems on the job and have done so all my life. If someone isn't focused on that same objective experience tells me you won't have success. I'm taking this to heart.

2. I don't want to end any statements with that type of ultimatum. That is unless there is no other alternative. Coincidentally before leaving for work I said something similar to her. I asked her what she would like from a boundary perspective around my work. Maybe I'm letting it intrude too much into our lives which isn't helpful. However, at the same time we need to arrive at the solution together. A solution that is reasonable and sane not only for us but logically so. I could always have women that work for me but that doesn't mean I'm sleeping with them. My guess right now is that I'm not giving her the emotional support she needs to help or enable her to feel good about herself. Where she won't come up with these ridiculous accusations. Now I might not be able to do that but understand if that is the problem would be helpful. Everything changes with age and I think she is having trouble coping with that as well. 

3. I agree here ... I've asked her to go to counseling and she of course refuses. She says if I want to go ... "Go ahead!!" ... imagine that is a yelling tone. She says she will not go and it does not help. She points out our step-son who went to counseling and seemingly we saw no changes. Much like when I offered to sit down and discuss boundaries for my work time she told me "Do whatever you want!" ... "I'm not going to tell you what to do ... you are grown!!" I told her that being married means we should come to that conclusion together and I asked her not to say anything but to think about it.

4. Good advice on parents as well.

Lastly ... I hadn't thought of the mental abuse aspect. Unfortunately I would say that is correct. Perhaps, I have some type of personality flaw that drives me to try and fix things or try not to let the relationship fail. I grew up in household where there was no divorce and had never known anyone who had been divorced until I was out of college. That is opposed to her having been married twice and parents were divorced. We have very different foundations. I believe in working things out and understanding the problems and resolving them. Not simply leaving when angered. Thanks again for the great reply.


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## LockedOut50 (Aug 9, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Have you checked her phone records? Put a var in her car find out what really is going on.



I got on that kick for a short bit last year. I think that is recipe for disaster. If it comes to that we shouldn't be together. That was when I found she was calling Ex. Secondly she had a blow up with my step-daughter (they had gone out for the evening). Some how she took my step-daughters car when she took her keys because she was too drunk. My step-daughter called me and told me there was a problem (crying) and to call a number. The number turned out to be the Ex's. She was there and then tried to cover it. Later she acted mad about the entire thing ... I know laughable. She was the one doing someone unusual. She later said she just went there to buy weed ... Sounds ridiculous I know ... and I could say more.


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## Dahlia92 (Dec 31, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> ^ This is the crux of your problem.
> 
> You're experiencing mental abuse from someone who is supposed to love you, and the steps you've been taking don't solve the problem. That means you will have to find a different solution. You have a few choices. You could leave, for instance. But it sounds like you want things to hold together, so you need to look in another direction. You can't change her, but if you change yourself the relationship will change. Beware, though... changing yourself does NOT mean giving in to her. The problem isn't that you're failing to act "right." The problem is that she's abusing you.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this. My first thought at reading your post was she's abusive and it sounds like a potential case of Borderline Personality disorder. You might want to spend a little time reading about it and see if it seems to fit - not just the diagnostic criteria, but read about how people who have it behave. Out of the Fog and BPD Family are good sites for BPD/ Personality disorder issues. They have educational reading as well as forums detailing behavior.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Hon... you've got to make a choice. 

Either keep a blind eye to what she's doing to you... and stay the "nice guy" in your mind. 

Or confront her on her extra-marital activities. Say.. .hey, you blew up about that phone call... here... Here's the passwords to my accounts.  Now, give me the passwords to your accounts.
Then immediately go to her accounts/phones/activities together, and look at how much she's calling her ex. Then tell her. The buck stops here. She's not married to him anymore. She has no reason to keep going to him behind your back.

If she needs weed that bad, then she'd better hurry the he-l-l up and find a different source, because you are putting your foot down on the amount of contact she has with him. Period.

Then, when she starts screaming at the top of her lungs at you about what you just said== you know you've got a cheater on your hands who is doing all the backtracking she can to cover it up.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

your in denial about your wife and rationalizing everything. start doing the opposite of your first instinct. stop chasing her around. if she leaves then you dont care


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

My first instinct is that she is cheating on you, and unlike most people on TAM, I don't easily jump to that conclusion.

Look at the signs. She starts fights with you to give her an excuse to leave the house and sleep with someone else. Her blowup over the phone call is a classic example. If it really bothered her so much, why didn't she say anything at the time? It sounds like she used that as an excuse so she could leave the house and spend the next day with another man (or woman). And in her own mind, she's also looking for justification. If she convinces herself that you are cheating on her, then she feels less guilt about her own cheating. 

Whether she is cheating or not, I recommend *YOU* leave the house next time she throws a fit. She's enjoying the power of staying out all she wants while you are worrying at home. If you leave, it completely takes the wind out of her sails when there's no one there to notice that she's even gone.

I also recommend marriage counseling for you both. She will probably refuse to go (claiming you have the problem not her) but insist that you both go, and mean it.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Yes, she is cheating and has been for a long time. This on top of everything I said in my first reply should be a good reason for you to place those boundaries. But like you said, if you have to go to that point, maybe you should not be together. 

Is there a reason you put up with people who treat you poorly?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LockedOut50 said:


> Previously, last year, during one of her binges she spent the night at her ex-boyfriends. She said I was lucky and I didn't know how good she had been.
> 
> Anyone that drinks themselves to oblivion, in my book, has some type of issue (attempt to escape, etc.) and or is an alcoholic. However, I should say she has cut that back to next to nothing in the last 6 months and over the last 45 days has cut out the weed (except once).


Whew! Well, you've got yourself a real peach of a gal, don't you? Here is where your responsibility lies: you are being a doormat. Sorry, but it's true.

Is she an alkie? Could be. Don't buy the baloney that she's cut back, she's "controlling" it, etc. For all you know, she could be drinking when you aren't around. One thing I know for sure is that alcoholics are masters of deception AND projection. 

They lie. They manipulate. And they blame you, me, and the rest of the universe for their problems. They also love to project their own screwed-up mentality onto others. What? Me cheat? He!! no. YOU are the cheater.

See what I mean?

Maybe she isn't a drunk. But bad behavior is just that: BAD BEHAVIOR. And I'd bet the farm she is screwing around.

I'd see a good attorney. Then, I'd get my financial ducks in a row. Knowledge is power. 

And, speaking of power ... take yours back. Let her rant and rave. Start getting your own life in order. Because I think you need a good exit strategy in place.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If it was me and she picked a fight and started packing, I'd help her out with the suitcases and when she left, let her know that this time DON'T COME BACK UNLESS YOU WANT TO ACT LIKE A NORMAL PERSON! People here are saying the same thing I'm saying, your being mentally abused. If she comes back either get her uncontrolled ass into IC or call a lawyer. No one has to take that kind of living. The longer you let this go on the worse it will get and don't be surprised if it gets to a point where she starts hitting. Why not. Your letting her get away with everything else.


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

This is just my guess, but I agree with the people who are saying she is likely cheating. I think she is definitely cheating and she wants you to be mad and upset about it. I definitely dont think there is any love in this relationship. Why don't you try leaving? Separation? Watching her reaction to that could tell you a lot.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Locked, you are fortunate to have attracted Kathy's attention. Like Dahlia, I agree with everything Kathy suggested. Significantly, many of the behaviors you describe -- e.g., the verbal abuse, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control (drug abuse), controlling behavior, and irrational jealousy -- are classic traits of BPD. I therefore agree with Kathy and Dahlia that your W may be exhibiting strong traits of BPD. For this reason, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your kids are dealing with.

Importantly, BPD is considered a "spectrum disorder," which means that every adult exhibits all BPD traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your W has these traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits them at a strong and persistent level. I don't know the answer to that question. I nonetheless am confident that you can learn how to spot all the warning signs for BPD if you take time to read about them. And Kathy's blog page (at the link she provides) is an excellent place to start.


LockedOut50 said:


> My wife generally accuses me of cheating or doing something improper fairly regularly. She has always been insecure.


Locked, you are describing a strong fear of abandonment. It may not be apparent to you because, when people have a strong abandonment fear, it can be so overpowering that they will preemptively abandon their spouse first -- as a way of stopping the painful fear.

Importantly, a strong abandonment fear is one of the key hallmarks of BPD. The BPDer's other great fear is engulfment, which occurs during intimacy. The result is that BPDers typically exhibit a repeated cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back. That is, it is common for these folks to break up with their spouses and partners many times. 

A survey at BPDfamily.com, for example, shows that a third of BPDer relationships breakup at least six times before the couple finally separates. Moreover, a fourth of them breakup ten or more times before eventually separating.


> I usually *walk on egg shells *around my wife because she is easily set off.


As Kathy explained, you should stop doing that. It is an enabling behavior that is harmful to both of you. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells_.


> In the past when she would get mad she would simply disappear and then show up only after I begged her to come home.


As I noted above, this breakup behavior -- as counter-intuitive as it seems -- is consistent with a strong fear of abandonment. It also is consistent with black-white thinking, wherein a person will categorize everyone as "all good" or "all bad" -- and will recategorize someone (i.e., YOU) from one polar extreme to the other, in just a few seconds, based solely on a minor comment or perceived infraction. Significantly, the fear of abandonment and black-white thinking are both hallmarks of having strong BPD traits.


> The cursing, screaming, irrational accusations has soured me.


Your W's frequent temper tantrums is exactly the type of behavior you expect to see in very young children, because they have not yet learned how to manage their emotions. They don't know how to do self soothing, how to intellectually challenge their intense feelings (instead of accepting them as reflecting reality), or how to better control their impulses. I mention this because, if your W has strong BPD traits, she likely has the emotional development of a four year old.


> So with all that ... it probably *doesn't sound bad* to everyone else....


No, not "bad" at all. Rather, it sounds downright terrible. Indeed, one of the worst things about what you describe is that your W does not take the children with her when leaving. That is, she effectively abandons your children at the same time she is abandoning you.

Again, I suggest you see a psychologist by yourself to obtain a candid professional opinion. I also suggest that, while you are waiting for an appointment, you read about BPD traits so you are able to spot any red flags that are occurring. An easy place to begin reading is Kathy's blog at Borderline Personality Disorder and Relationships and my description of BPD traits at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. Take care, Locked.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I agree with all the advice given. She's an addict, an abuser, mentally ill, and likely a cheater. So sorry you are here. 

I don't see much hope for your wife until you stop enabling her bad behavior.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I agree with all the advice given. She's an addict, an abuser, mentally ill, and likely a cheater. So sorry you are here.
> 
> I don't see much hope for your wife until you stop enabling her bad behavior.


:iagree:

....and let's not forget a Mother who pulls disappearing acts from her children.....sigh.......


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow, it's painfully obvious that she is cheating, has been for a while and is using the old picking a fight and stomping off to hook up tactic.

It was obvious before you reveled that you know she went to the Exs place for the night on one her nights out.

Yeah, 99.99990% cheating.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Yep, she has or is cheating there is a 90/10 (or higher from what we see here) probability for it.

Sorry, 

and you are in the first stage of the discovery of infidelity, denial!


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

My experience has been that the Spouse/Mate/person who continually harrasses about the other cheating....is actually cheating themselves.


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