# Trying to get exwife to agree to lump sum child support prepayment



## browser

After tomorrow's 1st of the month payment I've got exactly 4 child support payments remaining, the total due is about $8000.

My daughter lives out of state, she just got a job and needs a way to get there, she's working on getting her drivers license and expects to have it shortly and she wants to buy a car.

I told her and my ex that I'd be willing to prepay the support so my daughter can get a car, however my ex must a) agree to it in writing and b) forward most of the funds to my daughter.

Sounds simple, right? Problem is my ex has been keeping the bulk of the child support even though my daughter hasn't once lived with her since she moved out of state a few years ago. The problem is my ex is selfish, greedy, and lazy and hasn't worked in years because she's living off of generous child support payments. My daughter is concerned that if I give the lump sum to my ex she'll get less then whatever small amounts she gets from the monthly payments.

I'm trying to convince the ex that this final payment is in the best interests of our daughter who of course we both love and care about and we both want her to succeed and she needs transportation in order to do that but my ex is seriously mentally disturbed (in my opinion) and only sees the rapidly decreasing incoming flow of free money.

I'm not sure if this is a vent or asking for advice so take it as you may.


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## Bananapeel

Contact the child support payment center and see if that is even an option. No matter what your XW says or agrees to payments need to follow the state law or they can potentially be counted as a gift and not a child support payment.


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## C3156

browser said:


> I told her and my ex that I'd be willing to prepay the support so my daughter can get a car, however my ex must a) agree to it in writing and b) forward most of the funds to my daughter.


CS is court ordered, don't mess around with payments unless it is modified by the court. Otherwise your wife could claim you never paid and request additional payments.



browser said:


> my daughter hasn't once lived with her since she moved out of state a few years ago.


I guess I don't understand why would you pay your ex support for a child that does not even live with her?


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## SunCMars

Congratulations for serving your indentured servitude.

C.S. is justice due..to the child. This justice was moot, got the boot and exes little feet can do no [teary-eyed-rain-dance] to further nourish her paltry potato patch.

The end is near. XW's end is upright, threadbare and sunburned, her face is in the rabbit hole that only clever Alice could circumnavigate. 

Justice's due-process went up a winding road and landed on Piedmont. Sunlight prevails....for you and for dear daughter.

Good luck, Sir!


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## Hope Shimmers

I think you should have gone through the courts years ago and had the CS agreement changed once your daughter moved out of your ex's house.

Legally I doubt you have a leg to stand on. If I were you, I would just pay the 4 remaining payments and be done with it. And find another way to help your daughter get a car.


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## Kivlor

SunCMars said:


> Congratulations for serving your indentured servitude.
> 
> C.S. is justice due..to the child. This justice was moot, got the boot and exes little feet can do no [teary-eyed-rain-dance] to further nourish her paltry potato patch.
> 
> The end is near. XW's end is upright, threadbare and sunburned, her face is in the rabbit hole that only clever Alice could circumnavigate.
> 
> Justice's due-process went up a winding road and landed on Piedmont. Sunlight prevails....for you and for dear daughter.
> 
> Good luck, Sir!


SunCMars... this is OT, but I have to know... do you also post under the name Agile Cyborg in the comments section of Reason.com?


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## jb02157

Don't give her the money unless the court ok's it and you have in writing that it's the last of the child support that is due to her. If you do give it to her, she'll say that you never paid the child support. Informal agreements like this are always trouble and are never in your best interest.


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## browser

Bananapeel said:


> Contact the child support payment center and see if that is even an option. No matter what your XW says or agrees to payments need to follow the state law or they can potentially be counted as a gift and not a child support payment.


I've consulted with an attorney who has stated that as long as I have her written approval the prepaid support payments will be credited as such. 



C3156 said:


> I guess I don't understand why would you pay your ex support for a child that does not even live with her?


In order to apply for a modification I would need to prove that my daughter is not living with her. My ex has always claimed that she is renting a house with a room that is for my daughter, with some of her personal items in it (that she had from before she moved away). At the time, I didn't have a strong enough case nor did I have my daughters cooperation- mom has always had quite a hold on her. A year or so back I consulted with an attorney who agreed I needed my daughters cooperation, I approached her about it but she wasn't willing to go against her mother even though she was seeing only a small part of the support. A few months ago my daughter contacted me and said "go ahead and go after her for the support because she's barely giving me anything" but at that point it was not worth bringing a motion with only a few payments left and I told her as much.


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## jb02157

If your daughter wasn't willing to help you with getting the child support lessened so you could give her more, why should you want to help her so much in getting a car? Why would your ex be so willing to give all the support money to her daughter to get the car all of the sudden when she didn't give her any of it before. Even with a lawyer saying it was ok, with a written letter from your ex to that effect, I still think that she could figure some way of screwing you out of the money. I smell a rat.


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## browser

jb02157 said:


> If your daughter wasn't willing to help you with getting the child support lessened so you could give her more, why should you want to help her so much in getting a car? Why would your ex be so willing to give all the support money to her daughter to get the car all of the sudden when she didn't give her any of it before. Even with a lawyer saying it was ok, with a written letter from your ex to that effect, I still think that she could figure some way of screwing you out of the money. I smell a rat.


Why do I want to help her with getting a car? Because I love her and want to see her be successful, she's really gotten her act together with school and getting this job. I also have personal reasons for wanting to be done with the child support, basically just to get it over with and have an affirmation from her that it's paid in full, for whatever that's worth. 

This all came down this morning, and interestingly enough my ex has yet to say she is good with the idea. I cannot fathom why she'd turn her head at the lump sum payment but she remains silent. If she does get back to me with the go ahead I may opt to have my attorney draft a Stipulation that address the prepayment issue that will be notarized by both of us, just for the extra protection.

But you're right, there's no promise my ex will give some, all, most or any of it if she receives it in a lump sum but either way she controls that money regardless of how it's paid. My thought is if she's got this chunk of cash she might be a bit more open with sharing it but it could work the other way, and she'll know the spigot is turned off going forward.


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## Affaircare

To be brief and blunt, there is nothing you can do to "make" your exW be a considerate parent. She is who she is, and in order for her to change, SHE would have to want to change. Based on what you've said so far, I don't believe she has any desire to be any different: she wants to receive your money and live off of it, and she does not want to use the money for the child it is supposed to support. 

Soooo...since you can not change her, or "make" her, I would recommend a different tactic. Your daughter is not stupid. She may not want to cross her mom or "go against her" but she can see which parent is trying to help her and which parent is taking advantage. Thus, I'd say give exW the very bare minimum ordered by court for four more payments AND BE DONE WITH HER!!! You've done your duty to the court, and legally she won't be able to siphon off of you any more. Simultaneously with your daughter, explain what you would have rather done (given the $8,000 straight to her!), and explain that you can not control another person, so you are stuck following the court order for 4 more months. But see if you can't arrange for some sort of loan at the bank--a personal loan for yourself--that you could give to your daughter and have some repayment arrangement between you and your daughter--in writing. 

My guess is that if you have the $8k to make final lump sum for CS, you may be able to do an advance, a credit line, or some sort of financial arrangement to lay your hands on an amount to help her get a vehicle. Then have it be directly one adult (your daughter) to another (you) and bypass exW altogether. 

Four more months and you are legally DONE!


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## browser

Affaircare said:


> Simultaneously with your daughter, explain what you would have rather done (given the $8,000 straight to her!), and explain that you can not control another person, so you are stuck following the court order for 4 more months. But see if you can't arrange for some sort of loan at the bank--a personal loan for yourself--that you could give to your daughter and have some repayment arrangement between you and your daughter--in writing.


I have explained this to my daughter, and she has realized over the past months and years how true it all is. She's considering taking out a student loan and using that to pay for the car. I already pay her entire college bill and will continue to do so even though my obligation to her ends at age 21.



Affaircare said:


> My guess is that if you have the $8k to make final lump sum for CS, you may be able to do an advance, a credit line, or some sort of financial arrangement to lay your hands on an amount to help her get a vehicle.


I wouldn't need to borrow money in order to give my daughter the money for the car, but it's a bit much. Like I said I'm already paying for her college, I'm paying the child support, I'm just trying to get as much benefit for her out of the remaining support as I possibly can.


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## Hope Shimmers

Wow. Definitely be glad you are done with your ex-wife four payments from now.

I pay half of my kids' college expenses. The first one graduated last year, but for a year they were both in college at the same time and the college fees/living expenses were over $100,000 that year. I paid half. As a parent, I expect to pay half. I don't expect my ex-spouse to do more than me. Now we only have one in college so it's only around $47K a year.

Yes I have a good career so I can afford to do so, but no one handed that to me. I worked my a$$ off for all of it.

Kids are not stupid. As was mentioned in a post above, they know who is taking care of them and who isn't. Thus the reason why my 15 year old daughter is now living full time with me.


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## 225985

SunCMars said:


> Congratulations for serving your indentured servitude.
> 
> 
> 
> C.S. is justice due..to the child. This justice was moot, got the boot and exes little feet can do no [teary-eyed-rain-dance] to further nourish her paltry potato patch.
> 
> 
> 
> The end is near. XW's end is upright, threadbare and sunburned, her face is in the rabbit hole that only clever Alice could circumnavigate.
> 
> 
> 
> Justice's due-process went up a winding road and landed on Piedmont. Sunlight prevails....for you and for dear daughter.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck, Sir!




Do you actually even try to help the OP or do you post for artistic purposes?


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## jb02157

browser said:


> This all came down this morning, and interestingly enough my ex has yet to say she is good with the idea. I cannot fathom why she'd turn her head at the lump sum payment but she remains silent. If she does get back to me with the go ahead I may opt to have my attorney draft a Stipulation that address the prepayment issue that will be notarized by both of us, just for the extra protection.
> 
> But you're right, there's no promise my ex will give some, all, most or any of it if she receives it in a lump sum but either way she controls that money regardless of how it's paid. My thought is if she's got this chunk of cash she might be a bit more open with sharing it but it could work the other way, and she'll know the spigot is turned off going forward.


It is interesting that your ex is now cooling to the idea. I bet she thought she could figure out a way to take it all and go shopping. I like your idea of going to your attorney and drafting a stipulation, she probably isn't going to want to do it now. 

Is there any way that you could keep the payments the way they are and help your daughter on the side?


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## browser

jb02157 said:


> Is there any way that you could keep the payments the way they are and help your daughter on the side?


I have the financial resources to do that if necessary but realize I'm not only paying thousands in child support of which she gets "some" benefit although I'm not clear on exactly how much she's receiving, I'm also contributing to her college education- I pay 90% of it, the ex pays 10% but her share just comes out of her share of the child support, she remains unemployed. Because college tuition, room and board is completely paid, she has no other expenses, and she's considering taking out a student loan which isn't needed for school so she intends to use it for a car. Seems fair enough given the present circumstances.


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## browser

blueinbr said:


> Do you actually even try to help the OP or do you post for artistic purposes?


Do you actually even try to help the Op or do you just make random posts for your own amusement?


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## jb02157

browser said:


> she's considering taking out a student loan which isn't needed for school so she intends to use it for a car. Seems fair enough given the present circumstances.


I would caution against that. If you get a student loan and don't use the money for tuition, board or books this can be considered fraud.


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## SunCMars

blueinbr said:


> Do you actually even try to help the OP or do you post for artistic purposes?


A fair question deserves a fair answer.

Mostly for artistic reasons. 60/40 artistic to objective help. I fail to deliver on occasion. 

TAM is hell. Adding a little levity should not be a problem. But, of course, it is. The nail that pops up from the flat floor must be pounded down.

I do care. Next year I will likely move on. 

In summary:There are more than enough regular and pragmatic posters. Having Don Quixote ride roughshod at/on the scene keeps the joint alive.

I apologize for any unjust pain that I may proffer.


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## browser

jb02157 said:


> I would caution against that. If you get a student loan and don't use the money for tuition, board or books this can be considered fraud.


I didn't know that, this may change things. 

Edited to add. After searching the topic it doesn't seem to be an issue although you are technically correct, the money is supposed to be used only for school related expenses. 



SunCMars said:


> A fair question deserves a fair answer.


It might however an off topic post meant to instigate deserves a banning by the poster.


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## Learning2Fly

Just stay on schedule for the final four payments. Doesn't sound like it's worth it to try and shake things up at this point.


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## browser

Learning2Fly said:


> Just stay on schedule for the final four payments. Doesn't sound like it's worth it to try and shake things up at this point.


Well I've already "shaken things up" but she doesn't appear interested and once again her actions continue to baffle me. From what I understand she's almost broke you'd think she'd jump at the chance to grab a load of cash and yet.. nothing.

Go figure.


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## Learning2Fly

You'd think she'd want the pay out but it's also being offered based on her helping buy a vehicle for you daughter. She probably doesn't want to do that with the money. If she doesn't take your offer then the final 4 payments go to her just like she is used to.


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## browser

Learning2Fly said:


> You'd think she'd want the pay out but it's also being offered based on her helping buy a vehicle for you daughter. She probably doesn't want to do that with the money. If she doesn't take your offer then the final 4 payments go to her just like she is used to.


Yes that's pretty much what I'm thinking at this point.


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## 225985

SunCMars said:


> A fair question deserves a fair answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly for artistic reasons. 60/40 artistic to objective help. I fail to deliver on occasion.
> 
> 
> 
> TAM is hell. Adding a little levity should not be a problem. But, of course, it is. The nail that pops up from the flat floor must be pounded down.
> 
> 
> 
> I do care. Next year I will likely move on.
> 
> 
> 
> In summary:There are more than enough regular and pragmatic posters. Having Don Quixote ride roughshod at/on the scene keeps the joint alive.
> 
> 
> 
> I apologize for any unjust pain that I may proffer.




We want you to stay. You can give clear advice and you are very smart. Your deliberate style though may be lost with a lot of OPs. The veterans know you but the newbies may be confused. 

Don't move on.


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## 225985

browser said:


> Do you actually even try to help the Op or do you just make random posts for your own amusement?




Random posts for my amusement. Two peas in a pod.


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## SunCMars

browser said:


> I'm not sure if this is a vent or asking for advice so take it as you may.


If it were me I would buy your daughter good used car. 

If you cannot afford it, then tell her to make the payments as she can. 

This is something your DD would remember for life. Her Dad was there when she needed him.

A lifelong investment for pennies on the dollar.


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## arbitrator

browser said:


> After tomorrow's 1st of the month payment I've got exactly 4 child support payments remaining, the total due is about $8000.
> 
> My daughter lives out of state, she just got a job and needs a way to get there, she's working on getting her drivers license and expects to have it shortly and she wants to buy a car.
> 
> I told her and my ex that I'd be willing to prepay the support so my daughter can get a car, however my ex must a) agree to it in writing and b) forward most of the funds to my daughter.
> 
> Sounds simple, right? Problem is my ex has been keeping the bulk of the child support even though my daughter hasn't once lived with her since she moved out of state a few years ago. The problem is my ex is selfish, greedy, and lazy and hasn't worked in years because she's living off of generous child support payments. My daughter is concerned that if I give the lump sum to my ex she'll get less then whatever small amounts she gets from the monthly payments.
> 
> I'm trying to convince the ex that this final payment is in the best interests of our daughter who of course we both love and care about and we both want her to succeed and she needs transportation in order to do that but my ex is seriously mentally disturbed (in my opinion) and only sees the rapidly decreasing incoming flow of free money.
> 
> I'm not sure if this is a vent or asking for advice so take it as you may.


*Get with your attorney on this ASAP! 

A lot of family court judges in various states and jurisdictions will not sign off on this, more especially if there remains a valid question as to whether the children would receive the mandated monthly child support by paying in a lump sum rather than incrementally, as prescribed by their laws!*


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## *Deidre*

Your ex wife is not working and living off of your child support payments? Ugh. It amazes me that people like this are permitted to have custody of their kids.


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## sokillme

SunCMars said:


> Congratulations for serving your indentured servitude.
> 
> C.S. is justice due..to the child.


As a child of divorce who father paid child I don't agree. If you have a child be a man and support it without complaining about it. The child lives with one parent primarily they need to be supported. If the kid isn't getting the money that's a different issue but that an issue with the parent not the child or support. Assuming they are then what would be a better idea, I'm all ears?


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## sokillme

browser said:


> I have explained this to my daughter, and she has realized over the past months and years how true it all is. She's considering taking out a student loan and using that to pay for the car. I already pay her entire college bill and will continue to do so even though my obligation to her ends at age 21.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't need to borrow money in order to give my daughter the money for the car, but it's a bit much. Like I said I'm already paying for her college, I'm paying the child support, I'm just trying to get as much benefit for her out of the remaining support as I possibly can.


Buy her a $3000 Toyota or Honda that will last 4 years. Nothing says your daughter has to drive a 2010 car. Get her one from 2007. Right now she just needs reliable transportation.


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## SunCMars

"C.S. is justice due..to the child."
@sokillme

Child support is justice that is due [owed] to the child.

We are in agreement.


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## Emerging Buddhist

SunCMars said:


> If it were me I would buy your daughter good used car.
> 
> If you cannot afford it, then tell her to make the payments as she can.
> 
> This is something your DD would remember for life. Her Dad was there when she needed him.
> 
> A lifelong investment for pennies on the dollar.


+1

Cost-share it like a co-pay, does not matter how little she can pay, just don't tie it to any child support...


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## browser

SunCMars said:


> If it were me I would buy your daughter good used car.





sokillme said:


> Buy her a $3000 Toyota or Honda that will last 4 years. Nothing says your daughter has to drive a 2010 car. Get her one from 2007. Right now she just needs reliable transportation.


Good plan. I may do something along these lines.


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## Ynot

I dunno, it sounds like you are trying to have it both ways. You want your ex to take a lump sum on the condition that the money can be used to buy your daughter a car, so that you can to take credit for the car, because it "is in the best interests of OUR daughter who of course WE both love and care about and WE both want her to succeed and she needs transportation"
I am not disputing that you love your daughter (or that your ex does either), but you are conflating the two issues. Whether you like it or not, you have no control over how your ex uses the CS. You may think that not enough is given directly to the child, but guess what? It doesn't matter what you think. You are divorced now, you have no control over your ex - NONE! In your ex's mind all of the CS payment may in fact be used on the daughter, regardless of what you think. She may live in a nicer apartment because she has the child, than she would have if it was just herself. She may drive a different vehicle etc etc. Regardless, the CS was awarded to your ex and you accepted that.
If you want your daughter to have a car, buy it for yourself. Better yet, help her establish her credit by having her take out a loan and you co-signing it. You can teach her two lessons in one - she learns you are willing to help her (although I would think she should already know this) and she learns to be responsible for herself.


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## jb02157

*Deidre* said:


> Your ex wife is not working and living off of your child support payments? Ugh. It amazes me that people like this are permitted to have custody of their kids.


Absolutely, you shouldn't get child support unless you can show you are doing your part as well. If you can't or just want to continue to be unemployed the kids should go to the other parent. Just another symptom of a broken system.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> I dunno, it sounds like you are trying to have it both ways. You want your ex to take a lump sum on the condition that the money can be used to buy your daughter a car, so that you can to take credit for the car


I'm not looking to take credit for anything. My daughter needs a car, the child support the ex is receiving (that she's using for her own needs) is more than enough to buy it. I'm simply offering to make the child support available in one big chunk so it may be forwarded to my daughter so she may buy a car. I'm thinking that if my ex receives a large influx of cash she may be more willing to part with more of it. Whether my ex takes that offer or not, whether she accepts the offer and keeps all or most of the money herself is not something I can control and you state the obvious when you point that out.



Ynot said:


> In your ex's mind all of the CS payment may in fact be used on the daughter


I have long since given up trying to figure out what is going on in my ex's mind.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> I'm not looking to "take credit for anything". My daughter needs a car, the child support the ex is receiving (that she's using for her own needs) is more than enough to buy it. I'm simply making the child support available in one big chunk so it may be forwarded to my daughter so she may buy a car. Whether my ex takes that offer or not, whether she accepts the offer and keeps all or most of the money herself is not something I can control and you state the obvious when you point that out.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything quoted above is old news.
> 
> 
> 
> I have long since given up trying to figure out what is going on in my ex's mind.


But according to you she isn't using it for your daughter. So in effect you are trying to control what she does with the money and you want credit for it. Why else would you have approached the daughter (who refused to help you have the support reduced in the first place) to tell her about your offer to your ex? Maybe to make the impression that YOU are trying to help her? Your daughter probably sees the ruse, just as much as I do. If you want to help your daughter, just help your daughter and stop dragging your ex into it.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> But according to you she isn't using it for your daughter. So in effect you are trying to control what she does with the money and you want credit for it. Why else would you have approached the daughter (who refused to help you have the support reduced in the first place) to tell her about your offer to your ex? Maybe to make the impression that YOU are trying to help her? Your daughter probably sees the ruse, just as much as I do. If you want to help your daughter, just help your daughter and stop dragging your ex into it.


You call it control, I call it influence. Whatever.

I am trying to get my daughter a larger piece of the child support pie and giving the ex the option of doing the "right thing".

Since I have received no response from her it is fairly clear that I will not so we're on to plan B which does include me assisting my daughter financially with obtaining a vehicle but that is beyond the scope and not the purpose of this thread.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> You call it control, I call it influence. Whatever.
> 
> I am trying to get my daughter a larger piece of the child support pie and giving the ex the option of doing the "right thing".
> Again, "the right thing" in your mind. Where were you when the daughter moved out of state over a year ago? No, it seems you are coming to the end and are now attempting to leverage the little remaining influence you imagine you have to get your ex to act the way you want one last time. You already have to pay that money, but now are trying to bolster yourself in your daughters eyes.
> Since I have received no response from her it is fairly clear that I will not so we're on to plan B which does include me assisting my daughter financially with obtaining a vehicle but that is beyond the scope and not the purpose of this thread.


My bad, I guess I didn't realize the purpose of this thread was validation


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## browser

Ynot said:


> My bad, I guess I didn't realize the purpose of this thread was validation


 @Ynot 

Perhaps it will clear things up for you if I provide a brief summary. You know one of those TLDR thingies for people who have difficulty with absorbing, processing and retaining large amounts of information.

1- I've been paying a substantial amount child support for the better part of 10 years to my exwife who has kept the lions share (as is her legal right), and it's even worse the past few years because my daughter isn't even living with her since she moved out of state and has never visited her mother during this time.

2- I'm down to the last 4 support payments (as of this morning the 1st of the month) and those payments total about $8k.

3- I've been thinking for a while about making that last lump sum payment for next year all at once, just to get it over with and to start next year with a clean slate, free of legal obligations to my exwife. I have contacted an attorney about this matter and have been advised that with her written permission I can do that, without risking it being viewed as a "gift" and being liable for those 4 months of child support in the future should she decide to file a motion saying it wasn't paid pursuant to the court order. 

4- My daughter recently told me she wants to get a car and she was trying to figure out the best way to go about doing that, at which point I told her I was considering making a lump sum final payment to her mother, and how that would make the funds available immediately for her use if her mother was willing to provide them to her.

5- She expressed her concerns that she wasn't seeing most of the support money and it would be doubtful that she would get what she needed from her mom even if it was a large sum at once.

6- After we discussed it, she contacted her mom first to go over the idea, she didn't get very far so she asked me to contact her mom which I did, and that didn't go anywhere either.

7- We are now on plan B which assumes ex is not interested in assisting her daughter with the car purchase because she intends to continue to keep the lions share for herself, which she is legally entitled to do, and there's nothing I can say or do because I have no control over her. This plan B includes me assisting her financially with purchasing a vehicle which of course I am under no obligation to do, as well as continuing to pay her post age 21 college expenses, also which is done because I want to not because I have to. 

I hope this helps clear up your apparent confusion.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> @Ynot
> 
> Perhaps it will clear things up for you if I provide a brief summary. You know one of those TLDR thingies for people who have difficulty with absorbing, processing and retaining large amounts of information.
> 
> 1- I've been paying a substantial amount child support for the better part of 10 years to my exwife who has kept the lions share (as is her legal right), and it's even worse the past few years because my daughter isn't even living with her since she moved out of state and has never visited her mother during this time.
> 
> 2- I'm down to the last 4 support payments (as of this morning the 1st of the month) and those payments total about $8k.
> 
> 3- I've been thinking for a while about making that last lump sum payment for next year all at once, just to get it over with and to start next year with a clean slate, free of legal obligations to my exwife. I have contacted an attorney about this matter and have been advised that with her written permission I can do that, without risking it being viewed as a "gift" and being liable for those 4 months of child support in the future should she decide to file a motion saying it wasn't paid pursuant to the court order.
> 
> 4- My daughter recently told me she wants to get a car and she was trying to figure out the best way to go about doing that, at which point I told her I was considering making a lump sum final payment to her mother, and how that would make the funds available immediately for her use if her mother was willing to provide them to her.
> 
> 5- She expressed her concerns that she wasn't seeing most of the support money and it would be doubtful that she would get what she needed from her mom even if it was a large sum at once.
> 
> 6- After we discussed it, she contacted her mom first to go over the idea, she didn't get very far so she asked me to contact her mom which I did, and that didn't go anywhere either.
> 
> 7- We are now on plan B which assumes ex is not interested in assisting her daughter with the car purchase because she intends to continue to keep the lions share for herself, which she is legally entitled to do, and there's nothing I can say or do because I have no control over her. This plan B includes me assisting her financially with purchasing a vehicle which of course I am under no obligation to do, as well as continuing to pay her post age 21 college expenses, also which is done because I want to not because I have to.
> 
> I hope this helps clear up your apparent confusion.


No confusion on my end. Maybe you should reread what you just wrote from the perspective of another and see if perhaps you are a little confused with your motivations. You want your ex to use money you are obligated to pay in a way that you want it used. It is very simple. I am sorry you paid plarge sums of money for so many years, maybe you should have contacted your lawyer years ago when the daughter moved out and then you could have helped her directly. Your duty to your ex is almost over, stop being a drama queen.


----------



## browser

Ynot said:


> No confusion on my end. Maybe you should reread what you just wrote from the perspective of another and see if perhaps you are a little confused with your motivations. You want your ex to use money you are obligated to pay in a way that you want it used


You "almost" have it!

I want my ex to use the money I am obligated to pay to her, in the way that it was intended to be used. Although the court does not enforce it, child support is supposed to be used for the children's needs, not stuffed into the pockets of the recipient parent for their own use. I'm somewhat surprised you don't know that but thank you for giving me the opportunity to enlighten you.


----------



## vi_bride04

browser said:


> You "almost" have it!
> 
> I want my ex to use the money I am obligated to pay to her, in the way that it was intended to be used. Although the court does not enforce it, child support is supposed to be used for the children's needs, not stuffed into the pockets of the recipient parent for their own use. I'm somewhat surprised you don't know that but thank you for giving me the opportunity to enlighten you.


It's sad that the money can't be enforced to be used for the child; I have seen plenty of women who take the child support for themselves. You are preaching to the choir about wanting your ex to use the money for what it is intended. Thats just the way it is and nothing can be done about it.


----------



## browser

vi_bride04 said:


> It's sad that the money can't be enforced to be used for the child; I have seen plenty of women who take the child support for themselves. You are preaching to the choir about wanting your ex to use the money for what it is intended. Thats just the way it is and nothing can be done about it.


Yes, I realize that. I was sort of hoping that in the end game the ex would do [what I believe to be is] the right thing for our children but that is obviously not going to happen.


----------



## Ynot

browser said:


> You "almost" have it!
> 
> I want my ex to use the money I am obligated to pay to her, in the way that it was intended to be used. Although the court does not enforce it, child support is supposed to be used for the children's needs, not stuffed into the pockets of the recipient parent for their own use. I'm somewhat surprised you don't know that but thank you for giving me the opportunity to enlighten you.


No, you want your ex to use the money you are obligated to pay her in the way YOU WANT IT BE USED. It doesn't matter what the court does or doesn't enforce. As I said, you have no control over it and if it was really such a big deal to you, I would have thought you would have taken her back to court to get the payments reduced or stopped when your daughter moved out of state "several years ago". Now, I am sorry, you are unenlightened about your motivations, but that is your problem.


----------



## browser

Ynot said:


> No, you want your ex to use the money you are obligated to pay her in the way YOU WANT IT BE USED. It doesn't matter what the court does or doesn't enforce. As I said, you have no control over it/QUOTE]
> 
> That's true. I want the child support to be used to support my children, it doesn't matter what the court does or doesn't enforce, and as you said I have no control over it. Why do you keep repeating what I've already said and agree to and make it into some sort of argument when it's not?
> 
> 
> 
> Ynot said:
> 
> 
> 
> if it was really such a big deal to you, I would have thought you would have taken her back to court to get the payments reduced or stopped when your daughter moved out of state "several years ago".
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of years back I consulted an attorney about modifying the child support due to the fact that my daughter had moved to one state and my ex to another. He confirmed we would need my daughters cooperation because otherwise my ex and my daughter would say she's keeping a room for her and my daughter would be staying there on school breaks- even if she wasn't. My exwife has always had this psychological hold over our daughter and at the time my daughter refused to agree to cooperate because she didn't want to go against her mother. It was only a few months ago that my daughter finally figured it all out and was able to break away from the unhealthy connection she had with her mother, but by then it was too late to make the change, there just wasn't enough remaining child support to justify another court battle.
Click to expand...


----------



## turnera

If your ex doesn't work, how's she going to live once this $8K is gone?


----------



## jb02157

turnera said:


> If your ex doesn't work, how's she going to live once this $8K is gone?


That's her problem, I think she has sponged off Browser long enough.


----------



## turnera

I'm aware. I'm just curious.


----------



## Ynot

browser said:


> That's true. I want the child support to be used to support my children, it doesn't matter what the court does or doesn't enforce, and as you said I have no control over it. Why do you keep repeating what I've already said and agree to and make it into some sort of argument when it's not?


I am not making any sort of argument. I am simply stating that what is really bothering you is the fact that you don't get to control how the money is spent. Your entire story falls apart when one considers that the only conceivable reason your ex would refuse your request is because you have made it conditional on her doing what you want done. It isn't like you just made her the offer to pay the rest of your few remaining child support payments in a lump sum, it was the condition you placed upon her accepting. If she has collected regular payments for ten years and now only has four remaining, why on earth would she agree to ANY term you placed on her acceptance?


----------



## *Deidre*

jb02157 said:


> Absolutely, you shouldn't get child support unless you can show you are doing your part as well. If you can't or just want to continue to be unemployed the kids should go to the other parent. Just another symptom of a broken system.


Child support shouldn't double for alimony, this just seems wrong.


----------



## jb02157

*Deidre* said:


> Child support shouldn't double for alimony, this just seems wrong.


I agree, it seems to me that you should have to prove that you spent the money on the kids. Of course that could lead to so many loose interpretations you would be back where everything is now.


----------



## Ynot

turnera said:


> If your ex doesn't work, how's she going to live once this $8K is gone?


I think that is a classic case of misdirection. The whole thread is about how the OP is upset he doesn't get to control the money.


----------



## turnera

As I said, I'm just curious. He's already settled his problem; he's going to help DD get a used car.

It hits home with me because I'm dealing with such a woman. She used to be rich, had several companies, ran them all into the ground because she had to play golf all day, every day. She's gone through every potential source of money (including me) she can find because she simply will.not.work. So when I see another woman like that, I'm curious to see how things turn out.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Your ex, is no different then most people, one of the basic human conditions is self-preservation. your Ex, has earmarked that money for her needs, and as such has no desire to do anything that will deny her that "comfort" allotted to her with that money, regardless of the fact it would benefit her daughter. I am guessing she has always been self-centered, which probably explains why she is your ex. the best you can hope for is that she never bothers you again once the tap runs dry but i suspect she will turn to her daughter in the future and be a parasite to her. I just hope the lesson learned here is that your daughter realizes how selfish her mom is and breaks away form her.


----------



## browser

Xenote said:


> I am guessing she has always been self-centered, which probably explains why she is your ex. the best you can hope for is that she never bothers you again once the tap runs dry but i suspect she will turn to her daughter in the future and be a parasite to her. I just hope the lesson learned here is that your daughter realizes how selfish her mom is and breaks away form her.


That's a very accurate description of my exwife. She is already parasitizing her eldest daughter (from her first marriage) who continues to send her money to keep her out of the poor house.

My daughter is aware how selfish her mom is but I'm concerned she'll find a way to guilt her into supporting her when my daughter starts earning money (she was just hired for a part time job), and also from the funds I will be sending her directly after the last child support payment in April of next year. 



turnera said:


> If your ex doesn't work, how's she going to live once this $8K is gone?


I'm wondering the same thing. Some possibilities:

She has a degree, she can go back to work if she chooses, I'm guessing that when push comes to shove she'll get a job.

She'll continue to leech off her eldest daughter but I can't imagine she'd be able to get enough from her to live on.

She'll find another guy to live off of. However she has been unsuccessful in meeting anyone long term in the last 10 years since we split. Which is rather surprising because she's a good looking woman and she's had a lot of work done to maintain her appearance and she can really turn on the charm and keep up the facade and fool people that don't really know her. 

She'll go completely broke and apply for welfare, at which point I'll get sued for more spousal maintenance. It's a long shot, and it only happens rarely but in my state judges retain jurisdiction to reinstate alimony if there is "extreme hardship" and to prevent her from "becoming a public charge"



Ynot said:


> I am not making any sort of argument. I am simply stating that what is really bothering you is the fact that you don't get to control how the money is spent.


Yes it bothers me that the money that is meant to be used for my children is being used by my ex to pay her own bills because she does not work, by her own choice. As far as trying to "control" her.. I disagree with the term "control" to describe my actions, because I'm not forcing her to do anything. I'd go with "coerce", "suggest", "manipulate", "offer", "advise" or "persuade".



Ynot said:


> If she has collected regular payments for ten years and now only has four remaining, why on earth would she agree to ANY term you placed on her acceptance?


She wouldn't. She will not agree to any terms I've placed on her acceptance of a lump sum support payment. She has been silent on the matter and I do not expect to hear from her regarding the matter. But it was worth a shot.


----------



## turnera

IIWY, to avoid that last option of her going after you again, I suggest you get a wirebound notebook, start at the beginning when you got married, and write out the complete timeline of what she has done with her life. Including after you divorced, adding any opportunities she had for work or support and how she turned it down. Show a long-term pattern of her refusal to support herself. May not work, but it may.


----------



## browser

turnera said:


> IIWY, to avoid that last option of her going after you again, I suggest you get a wirebound notebook, start at the beginning when you got married, and write out the complete timeline of what she has done with her life. Including after you divorced, adding any opportunities she had for work or support and how she turned it down. Show a long-term pattern of her refusal to support herself. May not work, but it may.


I have all that information put aside for future use if necessary.


----------



## Pluto2

jb02157 said:


> I agree, it seems to me that you should have to prove that you spent the money on the kids. Of course that could lead to so many loose interpretations you would be back where everything is now.


CS is for the purpose of contributing to the support and maintenance of kids. So most guidelines figure in housing, utilities, food, gas, car-into supporting. Those aren't items that are generally spent on the kids, but are items the custodial parent requires in order for the kids to reside with them. Kids need a bedroom and a house or apt with an extra room for them, etc. It was never intended to represent direct expenditures solely on for the kids.
There is a mechanism for holding the custodial parent responsible if the kids are being neglected. Short of that, the N-C parent has no say in how the money is spent. That right ended with the divorce.


----------



## Ynot

Pluto2 said:


> CS is for the purpose of contributing to the support and maintenance of kids. So most guidelines figure in housing, utilities, food, gas, car-into supporting. Those aren't items that are generally spent on the kids, but are items the custodial parent requires in order for the kids to reside with them. Kids need a bedroom and a house or apt with an extra room for them, etc. It was never intended to represent direct expenditures solely on for the kids.
> There is a mechanism for holding the custodial parent responsible if the kids are being neglected. Short of that, the N-C parent has no say in how the money is spent. That right ended with the divorce.


I agree. For instance some here would be upset if the Custodial Parent (CP) had an apartment of house in a more expensive part of town, while they lived in a less expensive one. But they don't understand that the CS may have only been living in that more expensive house because of the better school district the child could attend by them living there. The same holds true for just about anything. Unless the CS is collecting a huge sum every month but the kids lives in a card box under the bridge or in a van down by the river, it would be very difficult to claim "they are just spending it on themselves"


----------



## jb02157

Pluto2 said:


> CS is for the purpose of contributing to the support and maintenance of kids. So most guidelines figure in housing, utilities, food, gas, car-into supporting. Those aren't items that are generally spent on the kids, but are items the custodial parent requires in order for the kids to reside with them. Kids need a bedroom and a house or apt with an extra room for them, etc. It was never intended to represent direct expenditures solely on for the kids.
> There is a mechanism for holding the custodial parent responsible if the kids are being neglected. Short of that, the N-C parent has no say in how the money is spent. That right ended with the divorce.


Just because it's the law doesn't make it right. There are too many times when money given for child support never is spent on anything that has anything to do with the kids i.e. lottery tickets, new clothes for her etc. I still think that the fact that you have kids from a divorce make you still liable for providing for them out of your own doing, not sitting around and being provided with money from someone you have nothing to do with anymore. If you say that the N-C parent has no say in how money is spend, shouldn't it be the other way around to, that the custodial parent should have no say in the N-C parent's finances? Therefore there should not be any child support.


----------



## browser

jb02157 said:


> Just because it's the law doesn't make it right.


True but only the law matters. 



jb02157 said:


> If you say that the N-C parent has no say in how money is spend, shouldn't it be the other way around to, that the custodial parent should have no say in the N-C parent's finances? Therefore there should not be any child support.


It "should" but it it isn't, and that's not going to change any time soon.

It's like saying the courts "should" be fair and predictable but you never know what the outcome will be until the judge makes their ruling and it can vary widely depending on anything from bias, corruption, favoritism, incompetence or just how the judge feels at that particular moment.

My particular judge was very favorable towards the nonworking female spouse and gave her a generous award of maintenance. It's my understanding other judges would have told her to go back to work and given her maybe half as much duration as I was ordered to pay.

Nothing fair about that but you won't find me saying "It shouldn't have been that way".

It's not "right" that our state requires us to pay what is considered the highest income tax and real estate taxes in the country and a lot of those dollars go into the pockets of corrupt politicians.

Its not "right" and it's not "fair" and you might hear people grumbling about it from time to time but what are you going to do?


----------



## jb02157

browser said:


> True but only the law matters.
> 
> 
> 
> It "should" but it it isn't, and that's not going to change any time soon.
> 
> It's like saying the courts "should" be fair and predictable but you never know what the outcome will be until the judge makes their ruling and it can vary widely depending on anything from bias, corruption, favoritism, incompetence or just how the judge feels at that particular moment.
> 
> My particular judge was very favorable towards the nonworking female spouse and gave her a generous award of maintenance. It's my understanding other judges would have told her to go back to work and given her maybe half as much duration as I was ordered to pay.
> 
> Nothing fair about that but you won't find me saying "It shouldn't have been that way".
> 
> It's not "right" that our state requires us to pay what is considered the highest income tax and real estate taxes in the country and a lot of those dollars go into the pockets of corrupt politicians.
> 
> Its not "right" and it's not "fair" and you might hear people grumbling about it from time to time but what are you going to do?


If it were me, I would have fought it. If you can show similar situations were judged much differently you can request arbitration. Not fighting cases like this result in women everywhere having kids, getting divorced and living merrily with their kids staying home and not having to work while the money rolls in. I will be damned if I let that happen to me. I'm the blue collar type, if you live, you work. If you don't work, you live in the street.


----------



## browser

jb02157 said:


> If it were me, I would have fought it. If you can show similar situations were judged much differently you can request arbitration. Not fighting cases like this result in women everywhere having kids, getting divorced and living merrily with their kids staying home and not having to work while the money rolls in. I will be damned if I let that happen to me.


Dude if I was you I'd still be married.


----------



## Pluto2

jb02157 said:


> If you say that the N-C parent has no say in how money is spend, shouldn't it be the other way around to, that the custodial parent should have no say in the N-C parent's finances? Therefore there should not be any child support.


um, that's called abandonment of your children.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Four more payments right, not 4 more years?

Just trying to figure out the whole derail and why it feels like nitpicking.


----------



## browser

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Four more payments right, not 4 more years?
> 
> Just trying to figure out the whole derail and why it feels like nitpicking.


4 more payments. She never got back to me about accepting the lump sum payment offer, and it's just as well.

The overwhelming advice from people both online and off has been "Don't do it she'll keep all the money" and I might be liable for the payments since they are not being made monthly as per court order.

I figure I've got nothing else to talk to my ex about at this point so I have removed her from my phone and blocked the number.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Okay, thank you. I get Ynot's argument, but it doesn't fit your situation and that's why I said derail. I could see you being a cake eater and controlling if you had four more years or just started paying two years ago. Your obligation is basically up and you want some of the money you've been paying, for over a decade, to go to your daughter. In my eyes, there is nothing wrong with that at all. Still, I agree with the main crowd and your decision. Finish the 4 payments, end the charade and buy her an older well maintained car. Nowadays, you can spend 3-5k and get a car that lasts 5-6 years with basic preventative maintenance.


----------



## Ynot

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Okay, thank you. I get Ynot's argument, but it doesn't fit your situation and that's why I said derail. I could see you being a cake eater and controlling if you had four more years or just started paying two years ago. Your obligation is basically up and you want some of the money you've been paying, for over a decade, to go to your daughter. In my eyes, there is nothing wrong with that at all. Still, I agree with the main crowd and your decision. Finish the 4 payments, end the charade and buy her an older well maintained car. Nowadays, you can spend 3-5k and get a car that lasts 5-6 years with basic preventative maintenance.


I never said I had an issue with the OP wanting some of the money to go towards his daughter. But if the OP had been concerned about that, he would have acted when his daughter moved out several years ago, not now with only four payments left. Too little too late? If you were her, would you take his offer? Assuming she is just spending the money on herself, why would she give up a guaranteed $8,000 (to spend on herself) over the next four months in exchange for $8,000 now to hand over to the daughter? Had the OP just said he wanted to be done with his ex this year and made her the offer without condition, I could see his point, but since he attached the condition, it is HIS fault his ex didn't accept.


----------



## browser

Ynot said:


> But if the OP had been concerned about that, he would have acted when his daughter moved out several years ago, not now with only four payments left.


I did "act" on it after she moved out. I did post about that earlier in this thread but perhaps you missed it because you were so intent on pointing out everything you believe I'm doing in correctly in an attempt to "control my exwife".

A few months after my daughter moved to college and my exwife moved out of state (a different state than my daughter) and it became apparent that my daughter had no intention of staying with my exwife on the breaks, I met with an attorney. A different attorney than the ones I used during my divorce because I found them to be ineffective at best and incompetent at worst. So I really did my homework and met with an attorney that was listed on the "Superlawyers" website, those attorneys are highly rated by their peers and this attorney also had many reviews from satisfied clients. 

Anyway we met, we talked, we consulted and we planned to proceed with the child support modification so that I could support my daughter directly. I made her aware of my plans because her cooperation would be needed to support my claim that she would not be using her mothers house as a residence when she was not in the dormitory. She said "no way, I'm not going to do that to mom, she'll hate me and besides she's giving me child support".

I spoke to the attorney again and he agreed that without my daughters cooperation, in fact with my daughter working AGAINST me and supporting her mothers claim that she DID intend to stay with her, I would not have a strong case.

So I dropped it and told my daughter that I would be unable to help her financially since she chose to oppose me on the child support motion and she was ok with that, in fact she was RELIEVED that I would not be taking her mother back to court.

A few months ago she contacted me and said getting the support from her mom was always a struggle and it's gotten worse and she's been getting less and she wanted me to go back to court to change it. I told her at that point it was barely worth it with so few payments remaining and given that she was still getting "some" child support at that time.



Ynot said:


> since he attached the condition, it is HIS fault his ex didn't accept.


At this point I really don't care that she declined my offer. Her refusal simply paints her as the selfish individual that I know her to be and my daughter sees it as well. As I said I'm probably better off not giving her the early payoff.


----------



## browser

phillybeffandswiss said:


> buy her an older well maintained car. Nowadays, you can spend 3-5k and get a car that lasts 5-6 years with basic preventative maintenance.


We visited my daughter this past weekend. Hooked her up with groceries, warm clothing for the winter, and discussed the car situation.

She's putting the cart in front of the horse. She hasn't even signed up for the mandatory 5 hour course required to take the road test, she's not the type to get things done with any sort of speed. It's going to be awhile. She said she could buy the car and keep it in her boyfriends driveway until she gets her license. I didn't argue the point I simply listened, while realizing nothing is going to happen with a car for quite some time. In a few short months I'll be providing her with funds that is necessary to provide for her daily needs and we'll discuss the car at that time. My ex and child support payments will be history by then.


----------



## Ynot

browser said:


> I did "act" on it after she moved out. I did post about that earlier in this thread but perhaps you missed it because you were so intent on pointing out everything you believe I'm doing in correctly in an attempt to "control my exwife".
> 
> A few months after my daughter moved to college and my exwife moved out of state (a different state than my daughter) and it became apparent that my daughter had no intention of staying with my exwife on the breaks, I met with an attorney. A different attorney than the ones I used during my divorce because I found them to be ineffective at best and incompetent at worst. So I really did my homework and met with an attorney that was listed on the "Superlawyers" website, those attorneys are highly rated by their peers and this attorney also had many reviews from satisfied clients.
> 
> Anyway we met, we talked, we consulted and we planned to proceed with the child support modification so that I could support my daughter directly. I made her aware of my plans because her cooperation would be needed to support my claim that she would not be using her mothers house as a residence when she was not in the dormitory. She said "no way, I'm not going to do that to mom, she'll hate me and besides she's giving me child support".
> 
> I spoke to the attorney again and he agreed that without my daughters cooperation, in fact with my daughter working AGAINST me and supporting her mothers claim that she DID intend to stay with her, I would not have a strong case.
> 
> So I dropped it and told my daughter that I would be unable to help her financially since she chose to oppose me on the child support motion and she was ok with that, in fact she was RELIEVED that I would not be taking her mother back to court.
> 
> A few months ago she contacted me and said getting the support from her mom was always a struggle and it's gotten worse and she's been getting less and she wanted me to go back to court to change it. I told her at that point it was barely worth it with so few payments remaining and given that she was still getting "some" child support at that time.
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I really don't care that she declined my offer. Her refusal simply paints her as the selfish individual that I know her to be and my daughter sees it as well. As I said I'm probably better off not giving her the early payoff.


Dude, you seriously need to get a grip on your imagination. Your OP was all about you attempting to control how the money you are to send your ex is to be spent. As I said, if it had really concerned YOU then, YOU (not your daughter) would have acted sooner. 
Of course at that time, you were told it was pointless, but now! Now, you imagine you have some leverage! And by God things are going to happen how you want them to happen! Except that you don't have any leverage and don't understand it.
Now after reading your latest installment in this continuing saga, I am lead to believe you are getting played by your daughter as well. WTH are giving your 21 y/o daughter "the funds necessary to provide for her daily needs". She has a job, lives at her BFs and hasn't even bothered to get her license yet?


----------



## browser

Ynot said:


> Your OP was all about you attempting to control how the money you are to send your ex is to be spent. As I said, if it had really concerned YOU then, YOU (not your daughter) would have acted sooner.


As I said, I DID act sooner- a few short months after my ex and my daughter made their respective moves.



Ynot said:


> Of course at that time, you were told it was pointless, but now! Now, you imagine you have some leverage!


My thinking was that my ex just might find the decency to respond to my daughters need for a vehicle but I wouldn't consider that "leverage" nor would I consider my actions an attempt to "control" my exwife but we've been down this road already. 



Ynot said:


> And by God things are going to happen how you want them to happen! Except that you don't have any leverage and don't understand it.


I understand that I have no leverage and nothing is going to happen. I understand it, s why I deleted my ex's contact information from my phone and blocked her number because I have no further need to ever speak with her again.



Ynot said:


> Now after reading your latest installment in this continuing saga, I am lead to believe you are getting played by your daughter as well. WTH are giving your 21 y/o daughter "the funds necessary to provide for her daily needs". She has a job, lives at her BFs and hasn't even bothered to get her license yet?


You may be right. My daughter may very well have re-established contact with me because she realizes the spigot of money flow is about to run dry unless she acts really friendly towards good old Dad. But you know what? I'm ok with it- to a point. She's my daughter, I want to take care of her. 

You are incorrect on two of your facts which I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to clarify.

She lives in the dormitory, not at her boyfriend's and they have no plans to cohabitate any time soon. She is interested in moving into an apartment after the next College semester.

She was offered a job but she hasn't started yet. Since she'll have to walk about a mile when she's on campus during school, if she has not yet obtained a vehicle, I will be surprised if she lasts through the next blizzard. She isn't the type of person to "stay with it". 

At which point what do I do? Continue to support her even though she quits her job?

I haven't thought that far ahead yet.


----------



## Ynot

browser said:


> As I said, I DID act sooner- a few short months after my ex and my daughter made their respective moves.
> 
> 
> 
> My thinking was that my ex just might find the decency to respond to my daughters need for a vehicle but I wouldn't consider that "leverage" nor would I consider my actions an attempt to "control" my exwife but we've been down this road already.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that I have no leverage and nothing is going to happen. I understand it, s why I deleted my ex's contact information from my phone and blocked her number because I have no further need to ever speak with her again.
> 
> 
> 
> You may be right. My daughter may very well have re-established contact with me because she realizes the spigot of money flow is about to run dry unless she acts really friendly towards good old Dad. But you know what? I'm ok with it- to a point. She's my daughter, I want to take care of her.
> 
> You are incorrect on two of your facts which I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to clarify.
> 
> She lives in the dormitory, not at her boyfriend's and they have no plans to cohabitate any time soon. She is interested in moving into an apartment after the next College semester.
> 
> She was offered a job but she hasn't started yet. Since she'll have to walk about a mile when she's on campus during school, if she has not yet obtained a vehicle, I will be surprised if she lasts through the next blizzard. She isn't the type of person to "stay with it".
> 
> At which point what do I do? Continue to support her even though she quits her job?
> 
> I haven't thought that far ahead yet.


Ok, she is in school still. I understand that. I supported my daughter until she finished school precisely because I did not want her to get a job while in school. She worked on breaks and during the summer. The money she earned then was never enough to get her through a whole semester or what was left of it. I made semi-regular deposits into her account, so that she was able to survive. Cheers to you! Sincerely I mean it.

But if you remember when you were young, I wouldn't necessarily base my plans on the fact that she has no plans to cohabitate at this time, but I can almost guarantee you that getting some privacy with the BF is on the list of reasons as to why she would want to move into an apartment even though she has no job. How far does the BF live from her dorm?


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## browser

20 minutes.


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## turnera

She'll have to walk a mile to get from class to class or she'll have to walk a mile to get to a job?


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## browser

turnera said:


> She'll have to walk a mile to get from class to class or she'll have to walk a mile to get to a job?


The campus is large, she probably walks at least 2/10 of a mile to get to the far end of campus and then the job is another 8/10 of a mile past the far end of campus.


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## turnera

Then I'd just tell her that as long as she keeps the job, she'll keep the car. And that you will be checking.


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## browser

turnera said:


> Then I'd just tell her that as long as she keeps the job, she'll keep the car. And that you will be checking.


My relationship with my daughter has been tenuous at best, she has cut contact with me for years at a time, there's been a lot of damage done by the divorce. I need to find a balance between helping her out and yet not enabling her. I think threatening to confiscate her car would be too heavy handed given the history, however I would not be quite so fast to throw extra money at her if she quits her job.


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## turnera

You see it as heavy handed; I see it as practical and a lesson in life that she needs to learn. I shrug a lot. When people pout at me, I shrug. Sucks to be you. When people guilt me, I shrug. I guess you'll find a better way to do it, huh? Don't want to work after I got you the car? Shrug. Doesn't look like you need it anymore, since you're not even walking a full mile a day at school. I'll sell it and save the money for a graduation gift.

The key is to keep the emotion out of it. And to remind her that you WANT to help her out, but that requires respect. If she takes the car and doesn't return respect for it, guess what? No car. 

You sound like you're desperate for her respect and affection and care, and are afraid of making her mad. No good will come from that. She's still a kid; you've got decades of time with her in the future. If she's being a putz, let her be a putz; without you. She'll eventually realize you're being loving AND respectful of her by expecting the same from her. Eventually, she'll see you as the stable, good parent and return to you. It just may not be in the next few years. I didn't talk to my mom much at all between the time I was 18 and 21 because of my boyfriend's influence. But she remained the same steady, loving person she always was, and I grew up a bit and started seeing that, and 'returned' to her. 

You can't force that. And you sure can't buy it.


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## browser

turnera said:


> You sound like you're desperate for her respect and affection and care, and are afraid of making her mad.


You're not wrong. I tend to walk on eggshells around her because if I over step we will be right back to square one and we've made a lot of slow progress over this past year. I would probably go so far as to stop throwing money at her but I wouldn't sell the car out from under her. Somehow she'd have to find the money to keep up with the registration and insurance payments or the car won't be on the road. 

I appreciate your advise and I don't dispute anything you've said but I'm going to tread lightly.


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## Starstarfish

I wouldn't take out a student loan for a car. 

Average student loan interest can be two, three, four times what the rate for a car is. If you can't pay your car loan it sucks, but they can repo the car or you declare bankruptcy. You can never get rid of a student loan without faking your own death or leaving the country.

If you want to help her out, co-sign her car loan, but I'd heavily encourage her against getting an iron clad student loan for a car.


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## browser

Starstarfish said:


> If you want to help her out, co-sign her car loan, but I'd heavily encourage her against getting an iron clad student loan for a car.


That makes sense. We're only talking a few thousand dollars anyway.


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## turnera

browser said:


> I would probably go so far as to stop throwing money at her but I wouldn't sell the car out from under her. Somehow she'd have to find the money to keep up with the registration and insurance payments or the car won't be on the road.


That sounds fair. As long as you explain it to her so she knows WHY you're no longer throwing money at her; as long as you're brave enough to have that conversation. If you don't, she'll just latch onto the 'my dad is a POS' crap again.

Read up on Authoritative Parenting; the preferred method to deal with kids because it puts you both on the same team and requires respect and uses boundaries/consequences so that the kid (1) learns and (2) becomes responsible for her own outcome.

btw, the way you're dealing with her is a lot like a BH dealing with a WW; think about it.


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## browser

turnera said:


> That sounds fair. As long as you explain it to her so she knows WHY you're no longer throwing money at her; as long as you're brave enough to have that conversation.


I can handle that. 



turnera said:


> btw, the way you're dealing with her is a lot like a BH dealing with a WW; think about it.


At times when neither of my daughters was talking to me, I eventually pulled back after trying very hard to stay in touch with them. I thought to myself "well maybe they'll start to wonder about me and miss me if I don't reach out anymore". I knew I had the same line of thinking as someone who is using the 180 for the wrong reasons, to try to win back their partner. Funny thing is, that when I pulled back, is when they came looking.

I read your link about authoritive parenting. Seems geared more towards younger kids, my daughter is almost 21. Although she's probably a younger "mental" age.


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## turnera

Kids' brains don't stop developing until around age 25. Mine is 26 and she's just now starting to act like a real adult; before now, everything was always backed with a 'mom, how do I do this' or 'do you think I should do that' because she didn't have the mental capacity or experience to come up with the answers. 

Trust me, it will still work with your kid. In fact, I tell adults to deal with their spouses using it. It's basic psychology - works on everyone.


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## Bullard.Buzz1000

This can be a very painful thing to ask for. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss

Ynot said:


> I never said I had an issue with the OP wanting some of the money to go towards his daughter. But if the OP had been concerned about that, he would have acted when his daughter moved out several years ago, not now with only four payments left.


His daughter wanted the car NOW and he tried an end around. Nope, you and I disagree because his OP and subsequent posts were venting.

Browser, be careful of enabling. Yes, this includes co-signing because you'll be tempted to pay when she misses a payment.


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## jb02157

Pluto2 said:


> um, that's called abandonment of your children.


It's not abandonment, one parent is left to care for the children


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## Ynot

jb02157 said:


> It's not abandonment, one parent is left to care for the children


Wow! Too bad your leach of a stay at home wife brought these parasites into the world to suckle off your teat! You have worked so hard for everything you have and apparently you didn't even have a say in having kids. Dude you have some serious issues if you don't think you have any obligations towards your children.


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## browser

In my state if the children reject the noncustodial parent and meet certain criteria for emancipation such as "being of employable age", then the custodial parent may be able to convince a court that they should no longer be responsible for supporting them.


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## jb02157

browser said:


> In my state if the children reject the noncustodial parent and meet certain criteria for emancipation such as "being of employable age", then the custodial parent may be able to convince a court that they should no longer be responsible for supporting them.


Thanks Browser...this is what I was referring to. If Ynot had bothered reading my posts, she would have know that 2 of the kids are grown, are college graduates and have their own jobs. With her around, I feel like Jay Leno having to explain his jokes to a dumb audience.


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## Ynot

jb02157 said:


> Thanks Browser...this is what I was referring to. If Ynot had bothered reading my posts, she would have know that 2 of the kids are grown, are college graduates and have their own jobs. With her around, I feel like Jay Leno having to explain his jokes to a dumb audience.


No wonder, you suffer from delusions of adequacy.


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## 225985

browser said:


> Dude if I was you I'd still be married.




Is that a compliment or insult?


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## browser

Ynot said:


> No wonder, you suffer from delusions of adequacy.


Cheap shot, uncalled for and honestly it makes you look like a child having a tantrum because you're not getting your way.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> Cheap shot, uncalled for and honestly it makes you look like a child having a tantrum because you're not getting your way.


I am not trying to "get my way". The guy you are enabling by continuing to defend him, is basically saying that not only won't he accept responsibility for himself, he is also refusing to accept responsibility for his own children as well. 
But since you seem intent on keeping score. Are you going to call JB out for his cheap shot " I feel like Jay Leno having to explain his jokes to a dumb audience"? Probably not, since he strokes your ego.
In case you missed it, JB was replying to a quote that was in response to another response he made. He basically said he shouldn't have to pay child support. If you think walking out on your kids, especially in light of your own OP is a-okay, then by all means continue to defend the indefensible.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> I am not trying to "get my way". The guy you are enabling by continuing to defend him, is basically saying that not only won't he accept responsibility for himself, he is also refusing to accept responsibility for his own children as well.


His children are young adults, from what I garner from his posts, he has no legal or financial obligation to them.



Ynot said:


> But since you seem intent on keeping score. Are you going to call JB out for his cheap shot " I feel like Jay Leno having to explain his jokes to a dumb audience"?


JB I am calling you out for your cheap Jay Leno shot on @Ynot. Even though he's been baiting you for days, you should try to keep your cool.



Ynot said:


> JB was replying to a quote that was in response to another response he made. He basically said he shouldn't have to pay child support. If you think walking out on your kids, especially in light of your own OP is a-okay, then by all means continue to defend the indefensible.


Again, JB's children are no longer his financial obligation, as far as I can tell from his posts, because they are young adults beyond the age of emancipation.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> His children are young adults, from what I garner from his posts, he has no legal or financial obligation to them.
> 
> 
> 
> JB I am calling you out for your cheap Jay Leno shot on @Ynot. Even though he's been baiting you for days, you should try to keep your cool.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, JB's children are no longer his financial obligation, as far as I can tell from his posts, because they are young adults beyond the age of emancipation.


Then why would he be worried about child support then. He uses them as an excuse. Whatever, dude, keep defending the indefensible. You two deserve each other.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> Then why would he be worried about child support then


I have no clue. Perhaps JB can weigh in and give us more details about the ages of his children and whether or not he'd be legally responsible for supporting them if he divorces.



Ynot said:


> Whatever, dude, keep defending the indefensible. You two deserve each other.


You really sound butthurt dude.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> I have no clue. Perhaps JB can weigh in and give us more details about the ages of his children and whether or not he'd be legally responsible for supporting them if he divorces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really sound butthurt dude.


Why would I be "butthurt" (BTW is that a cheap shot?) I didn't have to pay any child support, my children were adults by the time I divorced.So, it really doesn't matter to me. What does bother me is someone posting things that don't make any sense. If you would make the effort to point out the inconsistencies, instead of just making excuses and enabling JB, perhaps he might come clean and admit the truth.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> Why would I be "butthurt"


I don't know why you're butthurt, I'm just observing that you're acting like it. Maybe it's that new chick you've been banging that's starting to act like a stalker?



Ynot said:


> If you would make the effort to point out the inconsistencies, instead of just making excuses and enabling JB, perhaps he might come clean and admit the truth.


I doubt I can have any effect on what JB does, says, admits, or denies, however I will point out that I did say to JB "If I was you I'd still be married" in response to one of his rather hypocritical posts where he was telling me "what he would do if he were me". Given that I'm divorced and he is unwilling to go that route, I did call him on that one, perhaps that will make you feel a bit better?


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## Ynot

browser said:


> I don't know why you're butthurt, I'm just observing that you're acting like it. Maybe it's that new chick you've been banging that's starting to act like a stalker?
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt I can have any effect on what JB does, says, admits, or denies, however I will point out that I did say to JB "If I was you I'd still be married" in response to one of his rather hypocritical posts where he was telling me "what he would do if he were me". Given that I'm divorced and he is unwilling to go that route, I did call him on that one, perhaps that will make you feel a bit better?


Dude, it isn't about me feeling better, it is about hoping that JB will start taking control of his life and stop making excuses. I am sorry you don't understand that.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> Dude, it isn't about me feeling better, it is about hoping that JB will start taking control of his life and stop making excuses. I am sorry you don't understand that.


I understand that you seem to be on some sort of crusade to badger any non happily married person into divorcing their spouse because that's what your wife did to you.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> I understand that you seem to be on some sort of crusade to badger any non happily married person into divorcing their spouse because that's what your wife did to you.


Then again, it is apparent that you do not understand anything. The last thing I want is for anybody to get divorced. But what I do want is for people to assume responsibility for their own life. If that concept is a little difficult for you to understand. I don't know what to tell you.


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## browser

Ynot said:


> But what I do want is for people to assume responsibility for their own life.


What other people do is none of your business.



Ynot said:


> If that concept is a little difficult for you to understand. I don't know what to tell you.


You don't need to tell me anything.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> What other people do is none of your business.
> 
> When some one posts on a public forum, it becomes fair game for commentary. If you truly believe what you just posted, stop giving advice or commenting on anything anyone else posts because, you know, it isn't any of your business
> 
> You don't need to tell me anything.


I think you mean to say "you can't tell me anything, because I refuse to understand"


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## browser

Ynot said:


> I think you mean to say "you can't tell me anything, because I refuse to understand"


No, what I meant to say was that you don't provide me with anything useful although I appreciate your efforts.


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## Ynot

browser said:


> No, what I meant to say was that you don't provide me with anything useful although I appreciate your efforts.


Yea, like I said "I think you mean to say "you can't tell me anything, because I refuse to understand"


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## turnera

Guys, enough.


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