# Shaken Up



## Cuckold

Well it has happened to me. I let it happen to me. I should have done something sooner.

I recently read 22,000+ FB messages over 15 months between my wife and her lover in another country. She is completely totally in love with him, wants to take my son away from me and live with him. She tells him that no one has ever made her feel the way he makes her feel. She didn't even know what love was before she met him. 22,000 messages is almost mind boggling. Some of the love letters are 300-400 words each. There's so much I have read, I'm not sure I can ever forget it.

They have been trading naked pictures, sex skyping, it's a full on love affair.

But I knew about him. She did not hide the fact she was talking to this old school friend. She said they were just really good friends. She freely admitted to flirtatious conversation at times without me asking about it. I felt that it was harmless and if there really was something more to it she wouldn't be telling me. I loved her and only wanted her to be happy. I'm not the jealous type and I have female friends and yes, I do flirt with them sometimes. I told her it was OK and reminded her that since I am a computer expert, I could log into her FB at any time and see for myself.

Last year she went for a trip home to this other country. She insisted they were only together with other friends at the same time. But of course now I know they booked a hotel room together.

This year she has gone for another trip home. I discovered the FB on the same day she left, about 4 hours before her departure. I was stunned and could not formulate a response at the time so said nothing. But I did bug her phone and laptop. She is insisting on the phone that she has not seen him. What she has not said is that's because he is refusing to see her. His wife found some of the messages and it watching him like a hawk. She's gutted that she won't get to see him. 
Last year she visited him and his family together. She sat at their dinner table and smiled at his wife knowing full well she was banging her husband. It was things like this that assured me nothing was going on. Who could do that?

She's been gone two weeks and I have not told her that I know. She gets back in another week and a half. I have had lots of time to think. I'm an emotional wreck. Crying a lot, can't eat, work or even do the things I love. I don't really have anyone to talk to. I don't want to tell anyone in case we can stay together.

We have been married 17 years and have a 12 year old son. We have had our ups and downs but these last two years had seemed the best ever. What bothers me most is the fact that her betrayal was so stunning in it's lack of empathy. I surprised her once with tickets to an event I knew she would love. At dinner, she was texting undying love to him while i was in the bathroom.
We have a holiday together each year without our son that we call our honeymoon. Same thing, constant communication with him while telling me how great our relationship was recently. 
The list of occurrences is endless. Every loving moment of the past 15 months I can think of, I find a corresponding outpouring of love/sex to this man. This is verging on psychotic.

She says she feels like she is betraying HIM when she has sex with ME.

A little while ago she started sending me some naked text messages. I loved them. I find out they were really taken to send to him. One day after sex skyping with him all morning and getting very hot, she sent me a picture and said I should come home straight away. I was so happy.

I knew we had marital issues, but had no idea she stopped loving me so long ago. We still laughed and played together. Still had great sex. Still talked of love and growing old together. But only one of us really meant it.

Even after all of this, I somehow feel I want to fix my marriage. My son is best served by living together with his two birth parents who love each other. Is this even possible? Can someone ever get past this? Should I even try?

Can anyone else offer their own experience on how they managed to get past such a stunning betrayal?


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## seasalt

Lawyer up and find and secure your son's passport before you try to do anything else.


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## Cuckold

She took our son with her on this trip. Maybe she's not even planning to come home? I have read all their discussions about their options. They know they can't just take him out of the country.


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## MattMatt

So, how many times have your WW and the OM had sex?


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## Cuckold

Multiple times on her first visit to see him. Can't be sure about this visit although I think maybe not at all. It's all been long distance except for those two visits.

Is this relevant?


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## Tony55

The one thing that you can be 100% sure of right now is that you're life will never be the same. It doesn't matter if you stay together or if you divorce over this, the life you had is over. Let that sink in right now, force yourself to come to terms with the reality of the situation, understand that you will never feel secure with her again. There is nothing on this planet that will change that fact. You'll try to trick yourself into thinking that you can put things back to normal and carry on, but you can't and you won't.

Start preparing, you'll get people here to tell you the best way to prepare for the inevitable. Don't worry too much about more discovery or doing a "180", etc, etc, you already know what you need to know, more evidence is just more torture.

Good luck.


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## Mr Blunt

Your wife is very selfish and cares only about her pleasures. She has betrayed you, your son, and her friends. *She has chosen to be an adulterous woman to meet her selfish pleasures over building a good family and support for your son; that is really pathetic! *

I am sorry but your son will suffer but you can buffet that suffering quite a bit.

If you want to stay married with her it would be necessary that she and you both desperately want to go through the pain to reconcile. This will not be a matter of weeks or months but years with professional help.

If your wife is half AZZed about staying true and faithful to you then you will only prolong much more torture by staying married to her. *If she does not make an absolute 100% break from this man or any other man and prove it with actions then you should make a good plan to build yourself up so that you can divorce her and start another life*. Many spouses have divorced their unrepentant adulterous spouse and have recovered to have a good life. Millions have doe that and so can you.

*Your son will be better off with a strong father rather than a door mat father that holds on to an unrepentant selfish adulterous woman*.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

If you want to save your marriage you need to fight. Read that recent thread called "so much for my time away from TAM". If you dont want to deal with it anymore then divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kasler

username seems spot on.


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## Jonesey

WoW What a story..




Cuckold said:


> Well it has happened to me. I let it happen to me. I should have done something sooner.
> 
> I recently read 22,000+ FB messages over 15 months between my wife and her lover in another country. She is completely totally in love with him, wants to take my son away from me and live with him. She tells him that no one has ever made her feel the way he makes her feel. She didn't even know what love was before she met him. 22,000 messages is almost mind boggling. Some of the love letters are 300-400 words each. There's so much I have read, I'm not sure I can ever forget it.
> 
> They have been trading naked pictures, sex skyping, it's a full on love affair.
> 
> But I knew about him. *She did not hide the fact she was talking to this old school friend. She said they were just really good friends. She freely admitted to flirtatious conversation at times without me asking about it.[/B]You realize she got of telling you this,Right? I felt that it was harmless and if there really was something more to it she wouldn't be telling me. As i told you above. I loved her and only wanted her to be happy. I'm not the jealous type and I have female friends and yes, I do flirt with them sometimes. I told her it was OK and reminded her that since I am a computer expert, I could log into her FB at any time and see for myself. Do you understand now what i mean ?about she was/is getting of on it,her and OM.
> 
> She new you could and later would read up on everything.
> 
> Last year she went for a trip home to this other country. She insisted they were only together with other friends at the same time.1.5 years of this going in.Oh please.. But of course now I know they booked a hotel room together. Of course they dud.the plan al long
> 
> This year she has gone for another trip home. I discovered the FB on the same day she left, about 4 hours before her departure. I was stunned and could not formulate a response at the time so said nothing. But I did bug her phone and laptop. She is insisting on the phone that she has not seen him. What she has not said is that's because he is refusing to see her. No surprise of the lie. His wife found some of the messages and it watching him like a hawk.  She's gutted that she won't get to see him. Poor little her.
> 
> Last year she visited him and his family together. She sat at their dinner table and smiled at his wife knowing full well she was banging her husband. You still don't believe "Wife/OM" gets of on it? Normal people don't do that[/COLOR]It was things like this that assured me nothing was going on. Who could do that?Exactly my point.And why you would have hard time believing she gets of on this
> 
> 
> 
> She's been gone two weeks and I have not told her that I know. Don't bother say anything. she knows you know. She gets back in another week and a half. I have had lots of time to think. I'm an emotional wreck. Crying a lot, can't eat, work or even do the things I love. I don't really have anyone to talk to I don't want to tell anyone in case we can stay together
> 
> If thats what is what you won't. Exposing is you biggest allay.
> She needs to feel the concequeces. Secure the evidence.
> 
> And at least to the decent thing let OM´s wife know the full truth,Right now
> 
> We have been married 17 years and have a 12 year old son. We have had our ups and downs but these last two years had seemed the best ever. What bothers me most is the fact that her betrayal was so stunning in it's lack of empathy.has she always been like this? I surprised her once with tickets to an event I knew she would love. At dinner, she was texting undying love to him while i was in the bathroom.
> We have a holiday together each year without our son that we call our honeymoon. Same thing, constant communication with him while telling me how great our relationship was recently.
> The list of occurrences is endless. Every loving moment of the past 15 months I can think of, I find a corresponding outpouring of love/sex to this man. This is verging on psychotic.
> 
> Its not verging. it already is.
> 
> She says she feels like she is betraying HIM when she has sex with ME.
> 
> A little while ago she started sending me some naked text messages. I loved them. I find out they were really taken to send to him. One day after sex skyping with him all morning and getting very hot, she sent me a picture and said I should come home straight away. I was so happy.
> 
> I knew we had marital issues, but had no idea she stopped loving me so long ago. We still laughed and played together. Still had great sex. Still talked of love and growing old together. But only one of us really meant it. You are wrong.She meant it..She was and never planed to leave you for OM. If that was the case .She would already be gone..
> 
> Even after all of this, I somehow feel I want to fix my marriage. My son is best served by living together with his two birth parents who love each other. That would be true.But what kind of love does your wife have for you? Is this even possible?  Can someone ever get past this? Yeas you can.Have seen couples reconcile from far worser thing then you short end of the stick.Personally i would not recommend it.. Should I even try? You need not nonce permission i you would choose to try..
> 
> But ask your self first..WHY do i want to.
> 
> And finally you wife is going to need some serious IC
> before a reconciliation attempt is tried.
> 
> Can anyone else offer their own experience on how they managed to get past such a stunning betrayal?*


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## Will_Kane

So far with him it's all been fantasy. No realities encroaching. She has built him into perfection, he has no flaws. Of course, he only presents his best side to her via their communications. When in person, they had a little time together for sex, not enough for her to see his flaws. She has not had to live with him, face the challenges of raising a child, paying the bills, doing chores, etc., with him. Just sandy beaches, unicorns, lovey-dovey sex talk, and happily ever after.

You are competing against a fantasy. No way you can win against the perfect man. If you want to save your marriage, you must break up the fantasy.

See a lawyer. Start the divorce process. Get advice from the lawyer on what must be done to prevent her from taking your son out of the country. Divorce is a long process, it can be stopped if she wants to return to the marriage and meet your conditions

Wait for her to come back. Expose the affair to the other man's wife as soon as your wife is back in the country with your son. Do not tell her you are going to do this.

Give her the following conditions to stay in your marriage. All contact with the other man ceases immediately. She handwrites a no contact letter to the other man and gives it to you to mail. She gives you access to all accounts/devices. She blocks the other man on facebook and deletes him from her contacts and blocks him on email, etc.

As long as she is complying with no contact, exposure to your families and friends is not necessary. Definitely do so if she refuses to meet your conditions or she agrees but later resumes contact. If you do, don't tell your wife you are going to do it.

Have her handwrite the no contact letter. She should state how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior, how terrible she feels for risking her family and marriage, which is the most important thing in the world to her, and that if he ever tries to contact her again in any way, shape, or form, she will file harassment charges against him. Stick to that content, nothing more, nothing less, no terms of endearment, no "dear," no "sorry it turned out this way," etc. She gives it to you to edit and send.

Have her handwrite a letter of apology to you.

Ask her to hand over all of the lingerie and clothes she wore to meet the other man, including shoes. Throw them out and don't replace them. Have her get a new phone. Get rid of any reminders.

If she refuses to meet your conditions, proceed with the divorce and expose to your and her families and friends. Do not give your wife any warning about the exposure. If she refuses to meet your conditions, begin to treat her like someone who is your adversary in a legal case, because that is all she will be to you.


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## Cuckold

Jonsey, thanks for your thoughts. What does IC mean?


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## Cuckold

Yes Will_Kane he will have presented his best side. although he did confide that he is a serial adulterer, disgraced ex police officer, convicted felon, loaded with debt and unemployed.
What a catch.


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## Shaggy

Get all the details you can - emails, text, etc. The moment she returns home send them all to the OM'' wife.

While she is gone take all her clothes and give them to charity.

See a lawyer and have divorce papers, with you seeking 100% custody of your son ready to go.

have the locks changed at home. And have all your joint accounts emptied into new private you-only accounts.

the path is clear here - wait for her to return - and immedaitely declare total war.


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## TDSC60

Cuckold said:


> Yes Jonesey he will have presented his best side. although he did confide that he is a serial adulterer, disgraced ex police officer, convicted felon, loaded with debt and unemployed.
> What a catch.


If you are strong enough, you have to show her that you will be just fine without her in your life. Divorce papers are the first step. Just because papers are prepared and filed it does not mean that you can not stop the process at anytime. A dose of reality can do wonders to snap a wayward out of the fantasy.

You say OM wife found out what was going on? Do you think she knows about the hotel last year? That is the place you have to start. Contact OM wife and let her know what you just found. Send her copies if she wants them. Together you can throw a serious wrench into their little fantasy life.

Do not blame yourself for "letting" it happen. You trusted her. But she betrayed that trust along with her marriage vows. None of this is your fault.

But, step one is deciding if you can remain married to this woman after what you have just found. You are probably all over the place emotionally at this time. Don't talk to her for a couple of days. Decide IF YOU want to stay married. Do not let her know that you know while your son is in a foreign country.


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## Acabado

Sorrry man, that was horrible. When so many memories are tainted is really heatbreaking.
What Will_Kane wrote. Nailed it.
No matter the path of your marriage is in your interest to kill this affair like yesterday. Bad news OM lives abroad. Exposure is the better option for that, so don't forget to save all the evidence in order to send it to BW, she can be your ally. If OM has kids the likelyhood is he'll drop your wife like a hot potato.
It's all fantasy and scapism, very intense for sure, but fantasy, never tested by the dayly strugles. A shame they sealed the deal over those trips. The likelyhood is she never seriously considered leaving you for him, changing countries with your daughter and alike, deep down she knows it's all faking a life, a persona, role playing, scapism. The same aplies to OM. Online stuff is scary. It's all talk but surely they never went to a lawyer, save money nor have a date to confess or run off the sunset.

So lawyer up, get your doks in a row discretely, without giving clues, fake until she's back, confront, have your conditions very clear to not follow throught with the divorce (I'd include STD testing, humilliating, sobering, effective), be very firm nad clear, display your snooping tools to verify NC and wait to the withdrawal to fade in case she agrees (no matter how stupid or out of reality this affair is very intense and going cold turkey hurts, she's going to live in the fog for a while). Familiarice with the 180. Snat aplying it, the self improving part, even the detachment part.

Keep reading here. Keep posting.

At very least you will see whare you stand, you can also buy time to decide, you are free to change mind tomorrow, next week or next month. It might be a dealbreaker for you, maybe your wife is not remorseful at all, who knows. Asuming she follow the rules you have nothing to lose by waiting for a while before deciding.


The 180 degree rules
Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this


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## Acabado

Wll you latest post make it even more evident OM is a dead end even for your wife, a serial adulterer with no futrure for her own daughter.
It's not uncommom WWs choose that kind of complete loser. Mine did. Except for the felonies the POSMOM in my case could be your wife's.


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## Acabado

The main issue for me at this point is you need to wait for her to come to get your child passport before the confrontation so chances are she will bang him again.

Once she's here and you file nad expose the whole thing you tell her she's free to fly again alone to live with the loser.


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## Acabado

Another thing, don't tell her your info. Make her give you a full disclosure.


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## MattMatt

Cuckold said:


> Multiple times on her first visit to see him. Can't be sure about this visit although I think maybe not at all. It's all been long distance except for those two visits.
> 
> Is this relevant?


Well, yes, it is. Once she could argue it was a ONS. But multiple times? Nope. That won't fly.

Put your child on a "no travel list" with your Immigration Department, if that's possible.


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## Cuckold

I can't tell you all what a relief it is to read your replies. I don't agree with all of them but I have finally been able to off load my thoughts and get some much needed reassurance.
I have never posted to any kind of forum like this before. Never felt I needed to, or that a bunch of strangers would really take the time to compose considered replies that could actually help me.
Thanks for the support and I will be learning the protocol of responding and quoting in good time. I imagine that most of you have your own stories here that I can read. 
Thank-you all.


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## Jonesey

Cuckold said:


> Jonsey, thanks for your thoughts. What does IC mean?


Indivudial counsling


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## Cuckold

ok, advice so far...

Lawyer up. Well this is inevitable I suppose. Re-location of my son is a concern. But when that happens, you call the police don't you? I'm not a vindictive type. I don't need to make her feel pain. My sons future happiness is so entwined with her well being that to cause her pain is just hurting him.
I've had crazy thoughts that with a million dollar life insurance policy with her as the beneficiary... I don't know what to think. It would solve all their problems. He's an ex cop with a fondness for firearms. If anyone could get away with it it would be him.

Record evidence. Yes I did that right away. I have the entire history saved to a file. She could have deleted it so easily. It's two clicks. But she's a hoarder. Can't throw anything away. You should see our house/garage/basement.

Put your child on a no travel list. Absolutely. Great idea MattMatt. What are the consequences of this? Will child protection services get involved?

Outing her to his wife. She already knows something is going on and they are having difficulties because of it. I don't really understand what I have to gain by this. I don't want to cause more hurt to other people. They have a family, kids, they are already trying to deal with their pain. Why would I do this?
I don't want to force her to stop loving him. If she really wants to love him, I will just let her go.

Acabado, they are living in a fantasy world no doubt. I don't even recognize the person she presents to him. She presents herself as a wonderful housewife, cook, sex toy. If only she was the person she presented herself to be. But knowing this does not help me. I accepted her shortcomings long ago.

Change the locks and give her stuff to charity. No, this is not where I want to be. Without my son in the picture, sure, no brainer. How could I explain this to him?

STD testing. I have thought of it. Hearing her describe how she loved his warm cum inside her made me want to die. Her promise to take it in her mouth just doesn't bare thinking about. Can I kiss that?

I can't make these decisions in a vacuum. Since I have not confronted her yet, I don't know her response. I am expecting her to be mortified and contrite. This would be a good first step. If she gets defensive and tries to justify it, then it just makes my decision that much easier.

Tony55 you are probably right that my life will never be 100% the same. Whether I can deal with that I just don't know yet.

Jonesey, I can't believe she really got off hurting me. She knew she could be found out at any time. Even wished that I would find out so the deception could be over. I think she just stopped loving me and felt trapped. She has not worked since I took her away from her parents home. She has no job prospects, no way to support herself. She's never had to pay a bill or write a cheque or drive a car. She just could not function out on her own. My son needs a mother. A mother he can be proud of. 

I plan to keep reading and posting here,it's all I have at the moment.

This is really helping me. The cat has not been much help so far.


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## Will_Kane

Cuckold said:


> ok, advice so far...
> 
> Lawyer up. Well this is inevitable I suppose. Re-location of my son is a concern. But when that happens, you call the police don't you? *At that point, it is too late, and your son is in another country.*
> 
> Put your child on a no travel list. Absolutely. Great idea MattMatt. What are the consequences of this? Will child protection services get involved?*Child protective services does not get involved; setting it up so that she can't take him out of the country is one of the things you ask the lawyer how to do*
> 
> Outing her to his wife. She already knows something is going on and they are having difficulties because of it. I don't really understand what I have to gain by this. I don't want to cause more hurt to other people. They have a family, kids, they are already trying to deal with their pain. Why would I do this?*She has an idea but does not know the full truth. You have the full truth, don't you think she deserves it? He is probably telling her lies and making her think she is crazy. Outing to the other man's wife is the fastest way to break up the affair fantasy; and ultimately save your marriage *
> 
> I don't want to force her to stop loving him. If she really wants to love him, I will just let her go. *This would also help destroy her fantasy and I highly recommend telling her this very thing when you confront her.*
> 
> Acabado, they are living in a fantasy world no doubt. I don't even recognize the person she presents to him. She presents herself as a wonderful housewife, cook, sex toy. If only she was the person she presented herself to be. But knowing this does not help me. I accepted her shortcomings long ago.
> 
> Change the locks and give her stuff to charity. No, this is not where I want to be. Without my son in the picture, sure, no brainer. How could I explain this to him?
> 
> STD testing. I have thought of it. Hearing her describe how she loved his warm cum inside her made me want to die. Her promise to take it in her mouth just doesn't bare thinking about. Can I kiss that?
> 
> I can't make these decisions in a vacuum. Since I have not confronted her yet, I don't know her response. I am expecting her to be mortified and contrite. This would be a good first step. If she gets defensive and tries to justify it, then it just makes my decision that much easier.
> 
> Tony55 you are probably right that my life will never be 100% the same. Whether I can deal with that I just don't know yet.
> 
> Jonesey, I can't believe she really got off hurting me. She knew she could be found out at any time. Even wished that I would find out so the deception could be over. I think she just stopped loving me and felt trapped. She has not worked since I took her away from her parents home. She has no job prospects, no way to support herself. She's never had to pay a bill or write a cheque or drive a car. She just could not function out on her own. My son needs a mother. A mother he can be proud of.
> 
> I plan to keep reading and posting here,it's all I have at the moment.
> 
> This is really helping me. The cat has not been much help so far.


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## Jonesey

*Jonesey, I can't believe she really got off hurting me. She knew she could be found out at any time. Even wished that I would find out so the deception could be over. *

Im sorry, didn't mean to make you feel worse hen you already are. But its the thrill of it that makes them up the ante.*I think she just stopped loving me and felt trapped.* She most likely loves you..1.5 years.She would have left already.She may not love the way your supposed to.*She has not worked since I took her away from her parents home.*If you chose to reconcile..Perhaps time for her to get a job. *She has no job prospects, no way to support herself*.Whats wrong with Mcdonalds,walmart? *She's never had to pay a bill or write a cheque or drive a car.*Now is the time to learn. *She just could not function out on her own* Its strange that your saying that.. She clearly manages to conduct having affair 1.5 years.Book flight travel and so on.* My son needs a mother.*All kids need that. But however sometimes its best that mom is not around. 

*A mother he can be proud of* She is going to need a hell of lot of IC before that would happen. I hope she can be that mom


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## warlock07

When is she coming back? Make it a family emergency and get her to come back!!


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## Malaise

As Will Kane said

His wife does need to know. Would you want to know if the roles were reversed?


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## happyman64

Cuckold,

My take is a little different than the others.

I would expose the A to her family and to the OMW now!

Once Affairs are exposed for the unreality they are they rarely survive.

I would not have any contact with your wife after you do this. Only your son. No matter what happens she will have to come home to face you and return your son.

Let your wife stew in her juices for a week and a half. Let her think of what she has done to you and your marriage.

Let her and the OM feel the OMW's consequences and her family's consequences for the week and a half.

While this is going on see an attorney and undertsand your rights.

I assure you if you expose the Affair to the OMW and her family the reality is going to smack her in the head hard.


Then take this next week to see the attorney and decide what you want to do. Then when your wife returns you can discuss your future together if there is to be one????

HM64


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## Cuckold

I'm hoping that the threat of exposure will be enough. I like that idea about having her write a hand written letter to him that I post. If she can do that and cease all contact and I can verify that, this would be good enough for me.

If the affair stops I'm still not sure I should tell his wife. This would fall into the interfering and vindictive categories. I am neither and don't want to sacrifice my own values to score a point. Yes, I would want to know but that's no comfort. If they break up he would now be more free to pursue my wife. Right now it's her suspicion that has stopped them getting together on this trip. Also I think he could be a dangerous man, not one who I want to have as an enemy.

I do want to confront her 'friends' that knew and either encouraged it or did not advise her of the right path. Obviously they don't like me anyway so no love lost there. Some have suggested i demand she stop contact with those people. i'm not convinced.

Someone here said that she already knows I know. It took her a while but our text chats now indicate she knows I know something and am not happy. It's the proverbial elephant in the room. Neither of us are mentioning it, but both lament how sad we are. She doesn't know how much I know and does not want to overplay her hand. Some things must be done face to face.

I'm not actually too worried that she won't come back on her planned date. She has enough sane family around her to intervene if that happened. Although my spy software seems to have stopped working.


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## warlock07

You still want this woman back? After all this ?

Listen, you cannot shame her into reconciliation. You cannot make her reconcile through threat of exposure. She has to want it immensely for R even work a little. She has to beg and plead you for another chance at the marriage. Else, it won't work. If you beg and plaed her, it won't work. Begging and pleading her to save the family is the most common mistake made by betrayed spouses. Read the forum a little.



> Although my spy software seems to have stopped working.


She found it out and removed it(or she is not using the computer). What software did you use? Watch her manipulate the story of the affair since she knows you found out about it. She will strike pre-emptively, asking you for a separation or divorce.


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## chumplady

> Can anyone else offer their own experience on how they managed to get past such a stunning betrayal?


Yeah, I got a lot of things to tell you. But you can start here. 

I just discovered I was cheated on. Now what?

What NOT to do

You need to shut this down. Lawyer up and don't let her disrespect you another minute. 

((Hugs)) I know it's rough.


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## Shaggy

Good grief! You've rationalize a way to avoid doing every valuable suggestion that has been made to you. 

In the end the only thing you might do is talk to her and ask her to please stop? Sir, it isn't going to work that easy, and the only thing it will do is tip her ff that you know she us cheating. It will not stop her cheating. She already chose to cheat and doesn't care in the end if you don't like it.

This guy has taken you wife away from you and killed your marriage and lives in another country, and you are afraid of making him angry ?

He might stop seeing your wife in order to save his wn skin if his wife found out about the affair, but you have also decided it is too risky to tell her the truth.

Look, affairs do not end because a spouse meekly asks the cheater to please stop cheating and turn back into a fsithful spouse.

They don't. I've never known a single instance.

However when the betrayed spouse takes strong effective actions to expose the affair, to get the affair partner to dump the WS under the bus to save his own hide..... In such cases the WS sometimes does wake up and return to the marriage.

Not always, sometimes there is nothing to get them to return, and D is the only option. But skewst by exposing, telling the OMW you will know you did everything you could.


----------



## Shaggy

A couple of other points:

1. The OM is already your enemy.
2. Telling the truth is never vindictive, it is honorable. Keeping someone's secret especially your enemies secret is just plain foolish.


----------



## ing

I found myself liking most of Shaggy's posts, this is not that common [sorry man] since I am not a hardliner. 
The risk while your son is out of the country is that if you expose you may panic the star crossed lovers into doing something even more dumb.

As soon as you know your son is on a plane home, you expose this far and wide. She gets off the plane, you pick up your son and she gets a massive dose of reality.


----------



## Cuckold

warlock07 said:


> You still want this woman back? After all this ?
> 
> Listen, you cannot shame her into reconciliation. You cannot make her reconcile through threat of exposure. She has to want it immensely for R even work a little. She has to beg and plead you for another chance at the marriage. Else, it won't work. If you beg and plaed her, it won't work. Begging and pleading her to save the family is the most common mistake made by betrayed spouses. Read the forum a little.
> 
> 
> 
> She found it out and removed it(or she is not using the computer). What software did you use? Watch her manipulate the story of the affair since she knows you found out about it. She will strike pre-emptively, asking you for a separation or divorce.


I want my life back. I know you all say that's not going to happen, not 100% anyway, and I don't disbelieve you. I just have to try. 17 years is a long time. I can't just throw that away. Yes, that's what she did. I'm still obviously all over the place. 

I hang out at my local round the corner and have met some very messed up people. One common factor is that they come from broken homes. I don't want that for my son. None of those people I meet lament that their parents relationship was not really loving enough and they seemed a little distant. Sure I can't hold our relationship up as a model to him but bitterness, estrangement and resentment are not better.

It's her phone that is monitored. I know she is using it as she is uploading mobile pictures and fb chat from mobile. Both previous visits she claims the SIM card she bought in there did not allow receiving or making calls. She had to buy a disposable phone. I remember laughing with her that those are 'drug dealer' phones. Drug dealers and cheating spouses it would seem.


----------



## Cuckold

Shaggy said:


> A couple of other points:
> 
> 1. The OM is already your enemy.
> 2. Telling the truth is never vindictive, it is honorable. Keeping someone's secret especially your enemies secret is just plain foolish.


I have to be convinced I have something to gain from telling OMW (used my first acronym!). If I am otherwise convinced that all contact has stopped, I don't see the gain. Who am I to judge what is best for their relationship? Why do I have any obligation to her? I'm not a heroic guardian of marriage that must swoop in wherever infidelity occurs and blow the place up.

But the overwhelming opinion of everyone here is that I should do it. I have to take this communities opinions into consideration. Some of you are probably very bitter and angry - and rightly so. I don't want to be guided by bitterness and anger. That doesn't mean I don't want to hear it.

I will keep reading and welcome all the comments.


----------



## lordmayhem

Cuckold said:


> I have to be convinced I have something to gain from telling OMW (used my first acronym!). If I am otherwise convinced that all contact has stopped, I don't see the gain. Who am I to judge what is best for their relationship? Why do I have any obligation to her? I'm not a heroic guardian of marriage that must swoop in wherever infidelity occurs and blow the place up.
> 
> But the overwhelming opinion of everyone here is that I should do it. I have to take this communities opinions into consideration. Some of you are probably very bitter and angry - and rightly so. I don't want to be guided by bitterness and anger. That doesn't mean I don't want to hear it.
> 
> I will keep reading and welcome all the comments.












You don't need any further opinions from us here since we're bitter and angry.


----------



## chumplady

> have met some very messed up people. One common factor is that they come from broken homes. I don't want that for my son. None of those people I meet lament that their parents relationship was not really loving enough and they seemed a little distant. Sure I can't hold our relationship up as a model to him but bitterness, estrangement and resentment are not better.


Hey, my 15 year old kid is a product of a "broken" home and I was a single mom pretty much from the time he was 4 until he was 13. (Been remarried to a great guy, for the last two years.)

My broken home child is on the all-A honor roll. He's a nice kid. He worked a job this summer. He's respectful, kind, empathetic. Good work ethic. Loves me, loves his stepdad, loves his dad (who has issues...) 

You want to know how you model "bitterness, estrangement, and resentment"? Stay with a cheater. Stay with someone who disrespects you. Model dysfunction and codependency. Model crap things to him so that when his wife cheats on him, or people abuse him, he'll just stand there and "try harder" and tilt at windmills and think **** sandwiches are a normal diet. 

I'm sorry your choices suck. BTDT. Most of us posting on your thread have BTDT. You aren't different. You cannot "nice" people out of affairs. You want your wife to respect you (if it's not too late)? You get PISSED. You tell her you don't share. You tell the OM to go **** himself. You lawyer up. You tell your wife that she'll be taking your kid out of the country over your dead body. You expose her affair to your lawyer, her family, and any one you deem necessary to know. 

The way out of this is be Churchill, not Chamberlain. 

The way you save your marriage (assuming she isn't exiting for good, and you CANNOT CONTROL THAT), is you have to be prepared to let go of it. YOU set the terms.


----------



## mahike

I will tell you I did not expose and my wife of 29 years took the A deeper had to find out again and then expose. You must expose. A's live in the land of rainbows and unicorns and when you expose them to the light they come to a grinding halt.

When it is no longer all fun and the pain of having to talk with their spouse, family and friends about it they start seeing the flaws and they will look in the mirror and see a different person.

My 29 year marriage is dead and we are trying to build a new one. My old life is dead and I am trying to build a new one.

Stop going to the bar it is not going to help. I know these things from the mistakes I made.

Your boy will learn about the A at some point if he does not already. Let him see his Dad act like a Man and put a stop to it firmly, harshly but not abusive. Then let him see a Man work hard to rebuild his marriage.

Did you see a Dr about your health and checked for STD's. Do not sleep with the wife until you make her go to the Dr and bring to you a clean bill of health. I know this is humiliating to both of you but get it done.

Stay strong you are not the only BS that has been married a long time and trying to fix something. You cannot fix it, it has to be started a new


----------



## kenmoore14217

I'm deferring comments until convinced of authenticity!


----------



## Cuckold

chumplady said:


> Yeah, I got a lot of things to tell you. But you can start here.
> 
> I just discovered I was cheated on. Now what?
> 
> What NOT to do
> 
> You need to shut this down. Lawyer up and don't let her disrespect you another minute.
> 
> ((Hugs)) I know it's rough.



Thanks ChumpLady. I read your posts and am seeing lots of common threads in everything people have written. I may not want to believe it right now but I'm starting to see you must all be right. I will get there.

Regarding the eating and sleeping, you are right on the mark. I have lost weight and started smoking again. Crazy yes I know.

Until the confrontation, I don't want to do much of anything. yes, gathering evidence is key and I have done so. But everything else can be done later, in the near future. You will all disagree with me but it really does matter to me what she says when confronted. I think I will now pretty quickly at that time.

She knows I know something. I plan to start by asking her if she has anything to tell me. If she then comes out with a full account of everything without me having to drag every admition out of her then we could keep talking. If not, then we would be done. OK, you can all stop laughing and thinking 'well that's not going to happen'. Since this would be the best case scenario I have to give her a chance to do the right thing.


----------



## Cuckold

kenmoore14217 said:


> I'm deferring comments until convinced of authenticity!


Don't worry Kenmoore, I don't really want advice from a cynic.


----------



## Cuckold

lordmayhem said:


> You don't need any further opinions from us here since we're bitter and angry.


I don't mean to insult anyone. I truly value your advice. I take all the advice, mix it together and come to my own conclusions. Part of assessing any advice is to look at the nature of the source. 

Got a chuckle from your picture. Those are few and far between lately. Thanks.


----------



## happyman64

Cuckold said:


> I have to be convinced I have something to gain from telling OMW (used my first acronym!). If I am otherwise convinced that all contact has stopped, I don't see the gain. Who am I to judge what is best for their relationship? Why do I have any obligation to her? I'm not a heroic guardian of marriage that must swoop in wherever infidelity occurs and blow the place up.
> 
> But the overwhelming opinion of everyone here is that I should do it. I have to take this communities opinions into consideration. Some of you are probably very bitter and angry - and rightly so. I don't want to be guided by bitterness and anger. That doesn't mean I don't want to hear it.
> 
> I will keep reading and welcome all the comments.


Read thoroughly. You will see many spouses both battered and wayward that both agree that as soon as the Affair was exposed it killed it immediately.

There is no high or emotional benefit for most woman when the secret is out.

And you are both sad now. Aaaawwwwwwaw. Hot touching.

Now grab your nuts and twist real hard. Remind yourself why God gave them to you and get a little angry.

Exposé to te Omw and her family.

Turn up the heat.

Do not answer her calls for a few days. TEll her you are too busy with Lawyer......

Then see what kind of woman steps off that plane.

Hopefully a remorseful one. But you will never know until you act.

Stop spying and act.

HM64


----------



## Cuckold

mahike said:


> Your boy will learn about the A at some point if he does not already.


My 12 year old son asked me recently "What's an affair". I assumed it was something he saw on TV.

My response to him was it's when you have sex with someone you shouldn't.

Any articles about talking to your kids about this?
I have already decided that I will never bad mouth her to my son. But he has to be given reasons. 'Mummy and Daddy just don't love each other anymore' is all I can come up with.


----------



## AlphaHalf

If your going to confront her with a [email protected]$$&d plan, You will get [email protected]$$&d results. Are you trying to live up to your name? Good luck with that.:scratchhead:


----------



## survivorwife

Cuckold said:


> I want my life back. I know you all say that's not going to happen, not 100% anyway, and I don't disbelieve you. I just have to try. 17 years is a long time. I can't just throw that away. Yes, that's what she did. I'm still obviously all over the place.
> 
> .


It's not going to happen. Why? Because you can't unring the bell. It is done. You can ignore it. You can rug sweep. But the results are the same. Your wife is cheating on you. Accept the truth. That is the first step to healing.

The next step is what are you going to do about it? Ignore the advice here? 

In order to save the marriage, you have to be willing to end it. You have to acknowledge the "deal breaker". It's over. You have to act based on that assumption. You lawyer up. You get your finances secured. You make a plan. You do this NOW so that she sees that you are serious. Do you want your "marriage" back, or do you want your "wife" back? Those are two distinctly different issues. The woman you married no longer exists.


----------



## Cuckold

Two people now have questioned the authenticity of my situation. I don't do forums unless I need technical questions answered but I must assume that there are people out there who are starved of attention and would create a fantasy to get it.

There's no way i can think of that would prove anything, or even if I should try. But to pour your heart out here and have people question you on it is quite hurtful. To make such a statement and risk hurting someone who might be legitimate is not cool. If you don't believe me then just don't post. You have all been lied to in the past and it's made some of you distrustful. 

My mother told me that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Quaint advice perhaps but I live by it.


----------



## Cuckold

"Man up"... "grow some balls"

Yes, part of me wanted to change her fb password, post a message "Hey friends, guess what, I'm an adulterous *****" and post a link to the 22,000+ messages. I thought better of it. Didn't really consider it seriously. 

Is this what you mean by growing some balls?


----------



## Cubby

Cuckold said:


> "Man up"... "grow some balls"
> 
> Yes, part of me wanted to change her fb password, post a message "Hey friends, guess what, I'm an adulterous *****" and post a link to the 22,000+ messages. I thought better of it. Didn't really consider it seriously.
> 
> Is this what you mean by growing some balls?


Well, it's a better idea than what you've been doing.

Seriously, Cuckold, you absolutely have to let the other man's wife (OMW) know what you know. After reading the stories here a common theme is the Betrayed Spouse (BS) being reluctant to share the info, giving the same reasons you're giving. When they finally decide to do it, they're NEVER sorry they did it. You have to listen to the folks here. They've been through this before. You know NOTHING compared to the collective braintrust here. Treat the advice you get here as gold.


----------



## Cuckold

Cuckold said:


> "Man up"... "grow some balls"
> 
> Yes, part of me wanted to change her fb password, post a message "Hey friends, guess what, I'm an adulterous *****" and post a link to the 22,000+ messages. I thought better of it. Didn't really consider it seriously.
> 
> Is this what you mean by growing some balls?


Actually, I think this is illegal. I'm in Canada. Anyone know the law?


----------



## warlock07

Cuckold said:


> "Man up"... "grow some balls"
> 
> Yes, part of me wanted to change her fb password, post a message "Hey friends, guess what, I'm an adulterous *****" and post a link to the 22,000+ messages. I thought better of it. Didn't really consider it seriously.
> 
> Is this what you mean by growing some balls?


Is that what you understood from the posts?:scratchhead:


----------



## StrangerThanFiction

Cuckold said:


> Outing her to his wife. She already knows something is going on and they are having difficulties because of it. I don't really understand what I have to gain by this. I don't want to cause more hurt to other people. They have a family, kids, they are already trying to deal with their pain. Why would I do this?
> I don't want to force her to stop loving him. If she really wants to love him, I will just let her go.


You're making a major assumption that telling the wife will hurt her more than not telling her. Right now, her husband is having sex with another woman and almost certainly making the wife feel like she's crazy for doubting him. Not telling her is also equivalent to hurting her because this jerk gets to continue as is, wasting years of her life uninformed. A few months ago you had no direct proof of what your wife was up to. You may have suspected something was amiss, but you did not know. Now you do and you are in pain. However, would you really want to go back the the place of "ignorance is bliss" where you were, rather than understand your true reality, where you are now? The other man's wife is currently in the place that you were a few months back, she suspects but has no proof. Not that you need any more on your plate right now, but if you don't tell her, she may stay in the hurtful place she is in right now. How long, another 10 years wasted?

Another thing you said is that your wife's current trip is not going as planned because the wife is watching her husband like a hawk. What does this tell you about that coward. when the sh!t hits the fan, will he be a man and say "wife, i don't love you any more. i'm going to live with my dream woman." No. How should you know this? If he were going to do that, he would be doing that right now with your wife over there on her trip. As it is, he won't see your wife because he's afraid his wife will notice. The only thing this man is likely to do if you tell his wife, is drop your wife like a hot potato. Its called throwing your wife under the bus. Because he is a coward and that's what cowards do. You can read about it all over on this forum, and also the forums by cheaters for cheaters.

But don't expose anything to anyone until your son is back in country and you have his passport.


----------



## warlock07

One more point: Exposure is not for revenge. Think about what other purposes it might serve


Did you read the newbie link?


----------



## Cuckold

Cubby said:


> Well, it's a better idea than what you've been doing.
> 
> Seriously, Cuckold, you absolutely have to let the other man's wife (OMW) know what you know. After reading the stories here a common theme is the Betrayed Spouse (BS) being reluctant to share the info, giving the same reasons you're giving. When they finally decide to do it, they're NEVER sorry they did it. You have to listen to the folks here. They've been through this before. You know NOTHING compared to the collective braintrust here. Treat the advice you get here as gold.


Yes Cubby, I'm starting to realize that. It helps that most of the advice is consistent. But everyone is different and every situation is different. Like I said, right now I'm letting it all sink in, take all the advice I can and put together a plan. It may seem like I don't have a plan. I don't yet but it's coming together.


----------



## survivorwife

StrangerThanFiction said:


> You're making a major assumption that telling the wife will hurt her more than not telling her. Right now, her husband is having sex with another woman and almost certainly making the wife feel like she's crazy for doubting him. Not telling her is also equivalent to hurting her because this jerk gets to continue as is, wasting years of her life uninformed. A few months ago you had no direct proof of what your wife was up to. You may have suspected something was amiss, but you did not know. Now you do and you are in pain. However, would you really want to go back the the place of "ignorance is bliss" where you were, rather than understand your true reality, where you are now? The other man's wife is currently in the place that you were a few months back, she suspects but has no proof. Not that you need any more on your plate right now, but if you don't tell her, she may stay in the hurtful place she is in right now. How long, another 10 years wasted?
> 
> Another thing you said is that your wife's current trip is not going as planned because the wife is watching her husband like a hawk. What does this tell you about that coward. when the sh!t hits the fan, will he be a man and say "wife, i don't love you any more. i'm going to live with my dream woman." No. How should you know this? If he were going to do that, he would be doing that right now with your wife over there on her trip. As it is, he won't see your wife because he's afraid his wife will notice. The only thing this man is likely to do if you tell his wife, is drop your wife like a hot potato. Its called throwing your wife under the bus. Because he is a coward and that's what cowards do. You can read about it all over on this forum, and also the forums by cheaters for cheaters.
> 
> *But don't expose anything to anyone until your son is back in country and you have his passport*.


:iagree:


----------



## In_The_Wind

Cuckold said:


> Yes Will_Kane he will have presented his best side. although he did confide that he is a serial adulterer, disgraced ex police officer, convicted felon, loaded with debt and unemployed.
> What a catch.


They always affair down lol


----------



## chumplady

Cuckold, everything you do from this point forward, imagine telling it to a judge. Imagine the custody of your son rests upon it. 

So, no, you don't change her FB password and post a message saying she's a *****, with links. 

You confront her. Don't give her a chance to come clean. She won't. You know what you know, that's enough. You tell her it is UNACCEPTABLE. You don't share. She's got 30 seconds to decide what she's going to do, him or you, and either way, you're lawyering up. She'll have to do some hard work to prove she's worthy of another chance. (You don't beg her for that.)

Yeah, that takes balls. 

Next you tell the OM's wife. Why? Because it is the COMPASSIONATE HONORABLE thing to DO. And yeah, it also takes balls. You do it because she deserves to know AND that woman is your ally in putting an end to this. 

Chances are they'll take it underground, but logistics are difficult when it's overseas. The woman is living a fantasy and you need to end it. ASAP. 

Also, dude, most men like the OM just want a side dish ****. He'll say whatever to get his ego kibbles and some sex. The minute his wife knows, he will throw her under the bus. 

Your wife will want you to do the Humiliating Dance of Pick Me. 
The Humiliating Dance of

Don't do it. 

You need to TAKE CONTROL. If you don't do it for you, do it for your son. You think it's in his best interest to let his mom live in Lala land and mess up his life and possibly move him overseas for her infatuation?

You take all 22,000 messages to a lawyer. And tell her you've got that on her and you'll be asking for full custody.

And watch what she does.

You need to act with integrity and decisiveness. Don't be a vengeful idiot. Make a plan and find your backbone.


----------



## Cubby

StrangerThanFiction said:


> You're making a major assumption that telling the wife will hurt her more than not telling her. Right now, her husband is having sex with another woman and almost certainly making the wife feel like she's crazy for doubting him. Not telling her is also equivalent to hurting her because this jerk gets to continue as is, wasting years of her life uninformed. A few months ago you had no direct proof of what your wife was up to. You may have suspected something was amiss, but you did not know. Now you do and you are in pain. However, would you really want to go back the the place of "ignorance is bliss" where you were, rather than understand your true reality, where you are now? The other man's wife is currently in the place that you were a few months back, she suspects but has no proof. Not that you need any more on your plate right now, but if you don't tell her, she may stay in the hurtful place she is in right now. How long, another 10 years wasted?
> 
> Another thing you said is that your wife's current trip is not going as planned because the wife is watching her husband like a hawk. What does this tell you about that coward. when the sh!t hits the fan, will he be a man and say "wife, i don't love you any more. i'm going to live with my dream woman." No. How should you know this? If he were going to do that, he would be doing that right now with your wife over there on her trip. As it is, he won't see your wife because he's afraid his wife will notice. The only thing this man is likely to do if you tell his wife, is drop your wife like a hot potato. Its called throwing your wife under the bus. Because he is a coward and that's what cowards do. You can read about it all over on this forum, and also the forums by cheaters for cheaters.
> 
> But don't expose anything to anyone until your son is back in country and you have his passport.


:iagree: Cuckold, you know the tremendous hurt you're feeling right now. If anyone should feel empathy for the OMW, it's YOU. To not let her know and give her all the information you have is the behavior of a major a$$h0le. Do the right thing.


----------



## costa200

Dude, don't go ballistic until you have your kid back. After that fire all nukes...


----------



## happyman64

Cuckold said:


> "Man up"... "grow some balls"
> 
> Yes, part of me wanted to change her fb password, post a message "Hey friends, guess what, I'm an adulterous *****" and post a link to the 22,000+ messages. I thought better of it. Didn't really consider it seriously.
> 
> Is this what you mean by growing some balls?


No. I know you have them. God gave them to you so use them.

Act. Expose the A. 

HM64'


----------



## Cuckold

warlock07 said:


> Is that what you understood from the posts?:scratchhead:


Well several people have suggested I out her to her friends and family so yes I did interpret those comments in that way.

But maybe the "man up" quote did not come from the same comment as outing her to friends and family so your point may be fair.

I have read so much and so many people have been helpful it's hard to keep track of who said what. I'm starting to recognize some of your names now and connect it with your previous comments.


----------



## Jonesey

My take on not wanting to rat out OM/OW to there spouses.
Have revoked them self the right to ***** about the situation..

Considering you are presented with a choice.Reconcile or divorce.
in this case OMW has non of the above..


----------



## mahike

Cuckold said:


> Thanks ChumpLady. I read your posts and am seeing lots of common threads in everything people have written. I may not want to believe it right now but I'm starting to see you must all be right. I will get there.
> 
> Regarding the eating and sleeping, you are right on the mark. I have lost weight and started smoking again. Crazy yes I know.
> 
> Until the confrontation, I don't want to do much of anything. yes, gathering evidence is key and I have done so. But everything else can be done later, in the near future. You will all disagree with me but it really does matter to me what she says when confronted. I think I will now pretty quickly at that time.
> 
> She knows I know something. I plan to start by asking her if she has anything to tell me. If she then comes out with a full account of everything without me having to drag every admition out of her then we could keep talking. If not, then we would be done. OK, you can all stop laughing and thinking 'well that's not going to happen'. Since this would be the best case scenario I have to give her a chance to do the right thing.


All of the BS here will tell you that you will not get the truth out of her by just asking. She will lie (which is what she has been doing and has become good at it) and if she says anything with a shred of truth it will come out in a trickle. You must confront and expose affairs.

You are not eating, sleeping, smoking, drinking and lets talk about those mind movies that are playing in your head. We have all been down this road. You have to jolt her out of this fantasy. You have to be willing to end the marriage to save it.


----------



## Cuckold

mahike said:


> All of the BS here will tell you that you will not get the truth out of her by just asking. She will lie (which is what she has been doing and has become good at it) and if she says anything with a shred of truth it will come out in a trickle. You must confront and expose affairs.
> 
> You are not eating, sleeping, smoking, drinking and lets talk about those mind movies that are playing in your head. We have all been down this road. You have to jolt her out of this fantasy. You have to be willing to end the marriage to save it.


Yes, I'm ready to confront and expose what I know. But I would rather she told me everything without being forced to. It would make R easier. Yes, it's unlikely. She will have about a minute to make the decision. In my own way I am taking control. I have a desired outcome that I want. I am making all the conditions favorable for that outcome. Giving her a chance to do the right thing, even if it's just one minute, seems reasonable. And if not, what have I lost?
I fully intend to tell her that I have read every word regardless of her response, it's just a little test that costs me nothing but would be informative.

Yes, it smacks of 'mind games' and perhaps coersion. But I feel it is warranted.


----------



## Acabado

> But I would rather she told me everything without being forced to


Not goping to happen. Ever. IT's not in the human nature. All her defense machanism will get Up like yesterday. She will deny, she will deny more, he will fess whatever is forced to, she will lie, she will minimize, she will blame you, she will rewrite the story, she will blame OM, the blue moon..., she will likely tell a bunch of nonses, a byproduct of the lies she's been selling herself to deal with cognitive dissonance. You will have to completely ignore all the nonsese and watch her actions. 

Firm, decisive action is what you need, a plan, timing is crucial.

Keep reading more threads, read the newbie thread, try more sites, they will say the samem becuase people her have been there, done that. Even professionals will gave you the same advice.
No matter waht you need to kill the affair. Gathering evidence, confronting, exposing to relevant people (marriage builders would recommend nuclear exposure), filing, detachiung, starting the 180 and waiting the fantasy to explode nad her reaction to the whole thing.
Among your conditions toxic friends also have to go, forever. They are not friends of the marriage. Period.
Clear consequences, clear boundaires to atone. It's what works. Ever. You are not uniquere, your wife's affiar is not special. It follow a script. You can take the right steps or not. Therer's no garantees but the right patyh will increase the odds.


----------



## Cuckold

These are hard truths Acabado.

I'm going clothes shopping tonight with a gay friend. I hate shopping and usually dress pretty bad. I have shaved off all my hair which was long and curly down past my shoulders.

I'm not doing this for her. I'm doing this despite her, and perhaps even to spite her.

Since cutting my hair I have noticed women looking at me more. Or perhaps I'm just looking about more. Not that I feel like being in a relationship or intimate with anyone right now but it's nice to know I could one day. They always look down at my shoes. My friend confirms they all do this. Some shoe salesman is going to make his quote this afternoon.


----------



## Will_Kane

chumplady said:


> Cuckold, everything you do from this point forward, imagine telling it to a judge. Imagine the custody of your son rests upon it.
> 
> So, no, you don't change her FB password and post a message saying she's a *****, with links.
> 
> You confront her. Don't give her a chance to come clean. She won't. You know what you know, that's enough. You tell her it is UNACCEPTABLE. You don't share. She's got 30 seconds to decide what she's going to do, him or you, and either way, you're lawyering up. She'll have to do some hard work to prove she's worthy of another chance. (You don't beg her for that.)
> 
> Yeah, that takes balls.
> 
> Next you tell the OM's wife. Why? Because it is the COMPASSIONATE HONORABLE thing to DO. And yeah, it also takes balls. You do it because she deserves to know AND that woman is your ally in putting an end to this.
> 
> Chances are they'll take it underground, but logistics are difficult when it's overseas. The woman is living a fantasy and you need to end it. ASAP.
> 
> Also, dude, most men like the OM just want a side dish ****. He'll say whatever to get his ego kibbles and some sex. The minute his wife knows, he will throw her under the bus.
> 
> Your wife will want you to do the Humiliating Dance of Pick Me.
> The Humiliating Dance of
> 
> Don't do it.
> 
> You need to TAKE CONTROL. If you don't do it for you, do it for your son. You think it's in his best interest to let his mom live in Lala land and mess up his life and possibly move him overseas for her infatuation?
> 
> You take all 22,000 messages to a lawyer. And tell her you've got that on her and you'll be asking for full custody.
> 
> And watch what she does.
> 
> You need to act with integrity and decisiveness. Don't be a vengeful idiot. Make a plan and find your backbone.


This is right on the money. A good game plan. Your wife will NOT come clean when you ask her for the truth. Not a single cheater ever does and, even among the wide sprectrum of cheaters we see here, your wife is pretty bad. So if you make it that she comes clean or you divorce, even if you tell her that ahead of time, there is about a 100% chance that she won't come clean - just a friend, message once in a while, kissed once, etc.

If you give your wife a warning about exposure, she will start telling those you will expose to how crazy jealous for no reason that you've been.

My personal preference would be to expose to the other man's wife before confronting your wife or very shortly after, then saving exposure to your and her families/friends (without telling your wife anything about it) for when she breaks "no contact" and tries to re-establish the affair.

Yeah, we've been through it and we've watched hundreds of others go through it and it's all pretty predictable. There's a script the cheaters follow and a script the betrayed spouses follow and, like a cheesy formulaic movie plot, there's a few predictable paths it could take.

The exposure is not done out of revenge or bitterness and is not done in great detail of what specific acts she committed, just a brief message that your wife cheated and you'd like help in saving your marriage and family from those who know you and can have an influence on your wife. The exposure is a tool to save your marriage, not a vengeful, bitter act of vengeance.


----------



## Will_Kane

Cuckold said:


> Yes, I'm ready to confront and expose what I know. But I would rather she told me everything without being forced to. It would make R easier. Yes, it's unlikely. She will have about a minute to make the decision. In my own way I am taking control. I have a desired outcome that I want. I am making all the conditions favorable for that outcome. *Giving her a chance to do the right thing, even if it's just one minute, seems reasonable. And if not, what have I lost?*I fully intend to tell her that I have read every word regardless of her response, it's just a little test that costs me nothing but would be informative.
> 
> Yes, it smacks of 'mind games' and perhaps coersion. But I feel it is warranted.


No harm in it. But she won't come clean with the whole truth.


----------



## BjornFree

Will_Kane said:


> Yeah, we've been through it and we've watched hundreds of others go through it and it's all pretty predictable. There's a script the cheaters follow and a script the betrayed spouses follow and, like a cheesy formulaic movie plot, there's a few predictable paths it could take.


I haven't been here long enough but this is an observation I've made as well. You'd do well to follow the advice of these people.


----------



## crossbar

Cuckold said:


> I'm hoping that the threat of exposure will be enough. I like that idea about having her write a hand written letter to him that I post. If she can do that and cease all contact and I can verify that, this would be good enough for me.
> 
> If the affair stops I'm still not sure I should tell his wife. This would fall into the interfering and vindictive categories. I am neither and don't want to sacrifice my own values to score a point. Yes, I would want to know but that's no comfort. If they break up he would now be more free to pursue my wife. Right now it's her suspicion that has stopped them getting together on this trip. Also I think he could be a dangerous man, not one who I want to have as an enemy.
> 
> I do want to confront her 'friends' that knew and either encouraged it or did not advise her of the right path. Obviously they don't like me anyway so no love lost there. Some have suggested i demand she stop contact with those people. i'm not convinced.
> 
> Someone here said that she already knows I know. It took her a while but our text chats now indicate she knows I know something and am not happy. It's the proverbial elephant in the room. Neither of us are mentioning it, but both lament how sad we are. She doesn't know how much I know and does not want to overplay her hand. Some things must be done face to face.
> 
> I'm not actually too worried that she won't come back on her planned date. She has enough sane family around her to intervene if that happened. Although my spy software seems to have stopped working.


 Holy Sh*t dude! Will you please grow a frickin spine!!! Dude! You said you weren't vindictive. Well guess what! Your WW knows this and she playing at your weaknesses. She knows you don't have a spine and she's going to do what she wants when she wants because she knows you won't do anything.

She likes things the way they are right now. You said you weren't sure you wanted to expose to the OMW without a good reason. Okay, well here it is. if the shoe was on the other foot and she knew about all of this and you didn't, wouldn't you want to know? Do you think you have the RIGHT to know what's going on in your marriage.

Affairs are like roaches, they love the dark. As soon as a light turns on, they scatter. Dude, you need to bring this affair into the light. You want to end this affair? Then you need to tell the OMW. There's a damn good chance the OM will throw your wife under the bus as soon as he gets busted. Now, your wife will tell you that you telling the OMW was the last straw, that she's leaving you, wants a divorce, was willing to work on the marriage but not after this.....blah...blah...blah... This is normal, they all say this. Expose to her parents, her brother and sisters. Let them know what's going on! Because, if one of her options is to divorce you and persue something with this douche bag. I GUARANTEE you she's going to make you out to be a monster. Tell them that your mean, threating and just an all aound jackass that she can't be married to any longer. Then, she'll slowly introduce the OM into their lives as the shoulder she had to lean on during a really "difficult time in her life" and her knight in shining armor. When we all know he's the reason for the demise of your marriage. They won't be the wiser.

Once you expose, get yourself a Voice Activated Recorder and carry it with you at all times. Record everything!!! She will be pissed and it wouldn't shock me if she threats to call the cops saying that you're threating her or hitting her to get you thrown out of your own house. If she's still gone when you expose. Let any phonecalls go to voicemail at first. Some places have anti recording laws which state that you can't record anyone without their knowledge and it won't stand up in court. If she leaves a voicemail she KNOWS she's being recorded and it's inside the framework of the law.

Finally, see a lawyer....like now. Get your son on the no fly list, Hell, get the lawyer to draft up and injunction that he can't leave the state or territory. Your wife is gone. She been replaced by an Alien. That's how you have to view her. This is about protecting you and your son. I mean, my God, she took your son to another country so she can conduct and affair?!?! REALLY?!?!?! What kind of example are you setting for your son? PROTECT HIM!!!! This isn't about you and her anymore! It's about you and him! Start EXPOSING!!!! Starting with the OMW today! End their affair today!!! Don't let her enjoy another day over there!


----------



## Cubby

crossbar said:


> Holy Sh*t dude! Will you please grow a frickin spine!!! Dude! You said you weren't vindictive. Well guess what! Your WW knows this and she playing at your weaknesses. She knows you don't have a spine and she's going to do what she wants when she wants because she knows you won't do anything.
> 
> She likes things the way they are right now. You said you weren't sure you wanted to expose to the OMW without a good reason. Okay, well here it is. if the shoe was on the other foot and she knew about all of this and you didn't, wouldn't you want to know? Do you think you have the RIGHT to know what's going on in your marriage.
> 
> Affairs are like roaches, they love the dark. As soon as a light turns on, they scatter. Dude, you need to bring this affair into the light. You want to end this affair? Then you need to tell the OMW. There's a damn good chance the OM will throw your wife under the bus as soon as he gets busted. Now, your wife will tell you that you telling the OMW was the last straw, that she's leaving you, wants a divorce, was willing to work on the marriage but not after this.....blah...blah...blah... This is normal, they all say this. Expose to her parents, her brother and sisters. Let them know what's going on! Because, if one of her options is to divorce you and persue something with this douche bag. I GUARANTEE you she's going to make you out to be a monster. Tell them that your mean, threating and just an all aound jackass that she can't be married to any longer. Then, she'll slowly introduce the OM into their lives as the shoulder she had to lean on during a really "difficult time in her life" and her knight in shining armor. When we all know he's the reason for the demise of your marriage. They won't be the wiser.
> 
> Once you expose, get yourself a Voice Activated Recorder and carry it with you at all times. Record everything!!! She will be pissed and it wouldn't shock me if she threats to call the cops saying that you're threating her or hitting her to get you thrown out of your own house. If she's still gone when you expose. Let any phonecalls go to voicemail at first. Some places have anti recording laws which state that you can't record anyone without their knowledge and it won't stand up in court. If she leaves a voicemail she KNOWS she's being recorded and it's inside the framework of the law.
> 
> Finally, see a lawyer....like now. Get your son on the no fly list, Hell, get the lawyer to draft up and injunction that he can't leave the state or territory. Your wife is gone. She been replaced by an Alien. That's how you have to view her. This is about protecting you and your son. I mean, my God, she took your son to another country so she can conduct and affair?!?! REALLY?!?!?! What kind of example are you setting for your son? PROTECT HIM!!!! This isn't about you and her anymore! It's about you and him! Start EXPOSING!!!! Starting with the OMW today! End their affair today!!! Don't let her enjoy another day over there!


:iagree: I really hope this is the much-needed 2 x 4 to Cuckold's head.


----------



## warlock07

Before she comes back, just go through some of the popular threads here.(Threads with more than 10 pages and the OP with more than 15 posts, maybe? ) I am assuming you will sufficient time before she comes back. You can also go to infidelity boards(other than TAM) and see how affairs (and the lies accompanying them ) usually pan out. It is quite surprising on how similar the affair work out(it is called the cheating script). Educate yourself on how affairs work out. 


Just read as much as you can and put yourself in the best position before you confront her.


----------



## mahike

I saw this mentioned above. She will scream, she well threaten you that you exposed her. That is part of the that bad story plot. She will also tell you that it is all your fault, Just expect it.

The firmer yoiu can be, no tears not begging the better chance of ending the A and moving on to R


----------



## Cubby

mahike said:


> I saw this mentioned above. She will scream, she well threaten you that you exposed her. That is part of the that bad story plot. She will also tell you that it is all your fault, Just expect it.
> 
> *The firmer yoiu can be, no tears not begging the better chance of ending the A and moving on to R*


The bolded part above is vital to follow. Never, ever cry and beg her not to leave you. You have to be firm, confident...act like a man with options. If you cry, she will look at you with disgust and it will confirm to her that she's making the correct decision to leave somebody weak like you. As you educate yourself (which you better be doing) you'll learn all of these things and you'll be amazed that these situations all amazingly follow the same script. Every one of 'em.


----------



## seasalt

I agree with a previous poster. Do nothing overt until you safely have your son home.

He has asked a very grownup question about the meaing of the word affair. He has accompanyed his mother while she was cheating. It may be wise to consider some counseling for him.


----------



## crossbar

mahike said:


> I saw this mentioned above. She will scream, she well threaten you that you exposed her. That is part of the that bad story plot. She will also tell you that it is all your fault, Just expect it.
> 
> The firmer yoiu can be, no tears not begging the better chance of ending the A and moving on to R


 Yep!!! That's text book! I can't stress this enough. DO NOT GET GOATED INTO A FIGHT WITH HER!!!! That's all she'll need to call the cops and say that she doesn't feel safe being in the house with you. You need to be calm, cool and collected. Do not raise your voice for anything. And I will tell you this, she is going to say some very harsh and nasty stuff to you to try and get you to fight. Like, "He's sooo much more better than you are in bed. He's so much more bigger and the night before I came back, we made love 4 times that night."

Your response should be, " Really? Whatever. You want a gummy bear?"

Start doing the 180. If you don't know what that is, here it is:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. 

No frequent phone calls.

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Don't follow her/him around the house. 

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future. 

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS. 

Don't ask for reassurances. 

Don't buy or give gifts. 

Don't schedule dates together.

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life! 

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent. 

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy! 

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to! 

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested. 

Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them! 

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value. 

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation! 

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF! 

Don't be overly enthusiastic. 

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all! 

Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more! 

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything. 

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil. 

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly. 

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write. 

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy. 
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care! 

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior. 

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!" 

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message. 

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

This will make your WW see that you are capable of move on without her and it makes you seem like a fun and confident guy to be around. And if the marriage isn't working and she's hell bent on divorce, it helps you to move on because (with the help of the 180) you've already started to dissconnect from the relationship.


----------



## Shaggy

Cuckold said:


> Yes, I'm ready to confront and expose what I know. But I would rather she told me everything without being forced to. It would make R easier. Yes, it's unlikely. She will have about a minute to make the decision. In my own way I am taking control. I have a desired outcome that I want. I am making all the conditions favorable for that outcome. Giving her a chance to do the right thing, even if it's just one minute, seems reasonable. And if not, what have I lost?
> I fully intend to tell her that I have read every word regardless of her response, it's just a little test that costs me nothing but would be informative.
> 
> Yes, it smacks of 'mind games' and perhaps coersion. But I feel it is warranted.


Ask yourself what your end goal is. Is it to get her admit her guilt or to stop cheating? I ask this because your focus seems to be on getting her to come clean, to confirm what you know.

That doesnt end the affair. It just reveals to her what you know and how you found it, so as she take the affair deeper she will know where to hide things better.

Exposure, especially to the OMW has the effect of directly hurting the affair. It causes the OM to throw her under the bus to save his own hide. It also shows your wife that you are willing to stand up to the secrets and lies and take decisive action.

I know you want her to admit guilt, and stop the affair cold. The problem is your current plan isnt going to get you there.


----------



## ing

17 years is a long time, but you need to realize that you are talking to people who also thought their marriage was safe. 20 , 30 year marriages get hit by this too.
She WILL lie to your face. She will look you directly in the eye when she does this. 
She WILL say terrible hurtful things and mean them.
She WILL remember only the bad points of the marriage.
She WILL look at you with pity and pretend that she has concern for you.

Be Ready for this.

Because there are lots of reasons that their life together will not work [star crossed lovers] you have a chance of killing this affair.

Expose it. Your lucky to have the details of the OMW. Use them.

Pull a hard 180. 

Make her up a bed in the spare room, on the couch.

Stay dark until she gets back. 
Change the password on your computer. delete your browsing history. DO NOT tell her about this forum. 
Right now she sees you as the enemy to her happiness.

Be prepared to LET HER GO.


----------



## ing

> Your response should be, " Really? Whatever. You want a gummy bear?"


 :lol:
I am so going to use that line...


----------



## MattMatt

> Put your child on a no travel list. Absolutely. Great idea MattMatt. What are the consequences of this? Will child protection services get involved?


Yes, CPS might become involved. BTW, concerned about the policy? Name someone else as the beneficiary, and make sure your wife knows it.


----------



## MattMatt

Cuckold, which country are you in? If the UK, I have some specific info you could find useful.

Ah. I see you are in Canada. So that answers that question.


----------



## Cuckold

MattMatt said:


> Cuckold, which country are you in? If the UK, I have some specific info you could find useful.
> 
> Ah. I see you are in Canada. So that answers that question.


The UK is the other country.


----------



## sinnister

This is terrible news cuckold. Sorry you're right in the middle of it. Please take the advice here and dont let on about what you know yet while you very carefully, secretly and quickly plan your exit strategy. She's not the woman you married.


----------



## the guy

BjornFree said:


> I haven't been here long enough but this is an observation I've made as well. You'd do well to follow the advice of these people.


Even the newbie gets it, even at 11 post.

Thanks BjornFree for adding your $0.02 cuz its a fact, you can't "nice" your way out of this crap"


----------



## the guy

Has any body mentioned the pass port issue? Even kids need one Plus a letter from, I thought?

Maybe I need to read the ehole thread, enless I can get a quick debrief?


----------



## the guy

Mattmatt, worlock, sinnistir, whats going on in a nut shell

I got his chick took off with his kid, but are they still in the states?


----------



## ing

the guy said:


> Mattmatt, worlock, sinnistir, whats going on in a nut shell
> 
> I got his chick took off with his kid, but are they still in the states?


International EA gone PA
Kid out of country with AP and WS


----------



## MattMatt

Cuckold said:


> The UK is the other country.


In that case UK Border Agency might be a good option.


----------



## MattMatt

ing said:


> International EA gone PA
> Kid out of country with AP and WS


Not in the USA. Canada - UK.


----------



## Cuckold

Spy software working again. She has texted him saying she can't believe she is leaving the country in five days and has not yet even heard his voice.

Assuming of course that the software has not been discovered and this is a ruse, this is a relief. She is planning to come home with my son.

He has not replied to her texts in 4 days. I think she is under the proverbial bus. Small comfort that does not change anything.


----------



## happyman64

****

Buy a voice activated recorder before she comes home.

It will help you later when you want to replay a conversation as well as protect you if the conversation gets out of hand.

HM64


----------



## hookares

Cuckold said:


> Spy software working again. She has texted him saying she can't believe she is leaving the country in five days and has not yet even heard his voice.
> 
> Assuming of course that the software has not been discovered and this is a ruse, this is a relief. She is planning to come home with my son.
> 
> He has not replied to her texts in 4 days. I think she is under the proverbial bus. Small comfort that does not change anything.


The very first thing you should do is get a paternity test to establish if you are actually the boy's father.
Should it turn out you aren't, then you have been grieving over something that has never been real.
If you are the dad, then you need to lawyer up and file for divorce because you will never be number one with this woman and, perhaps never even be assigned a number.


----------



## Cuckold

happyman64 said:


> ****
> 
> Buy a voice activated recorder before she comes home.
> 
> It will help you later when you want to replay a conversation as well as protect you if the conversation gets out of hand.
> 
> HM64


I heard this suggestion before, along with the prospect of her calling the police and saying I abused her. I have a good friend who spent the night in jail because his wife made a trumped up charge of threatening assault against him. I had to bail him out. His wife was a b*tch from hell. 

A VR won't stop this from happening to me because NOT having a recording of something that did NOT happen is not proof. 

But it would help me if she starts ranting and raving and being abusive. Would you suggest that I tell her I have the VR or is the idea that I record her without her knowing?

I am so much resisting playing hardball but the overwhelming advice here is to do just that. I will probably play the middle ground until she shows her hand. But certainly would not consider this out of bounds if necessary.


----------



## Cuckold

hookares said:


> The very first thing you should do is get a paternity test to establish if you are actually the boy's father.
> Should it turn out you aren't, then you have been grieving over something that has never been real.
> If you are the dad, then you need to lawyer up and file for divorce because you will never be number one with this woman and, perhaps never even be assigned a number.


Wow, this one caught me off-guard. My son is certainly not the child of OM. If he is actually someone elses son, it doesn't really matter to me. I love him, have nurtured him and for all intents and purposes he is my son. Loosing him would be far worse than loosing her.

You do make me think though that since having him we have not conceived another. What if I have been shooting blanks all this time?


----------



## Cuckold

warlock07 said:


> What software did you use?


Mobile Spy - Monitor SMS Text Messages, Call Info and GPS Locations on iPhone, BlackBerry, Android, Windows Mobile and Symbian OS Smartphones. Spy Software for Monitoring your Cell Phone


----------



## Cuckold

Well today was d-day - part one I suppose.
I was supposed to wait until she got back but we were talking and both knew what was coming. It happened over fb chat. Monitored text messages indicated that OM was not going to see her, that he was already throwing her under the bus, albeit slowly and gently. I was no longer concerned she would not bring my son back.

You were all right, she did not come clean right away. At first she said it was not reality and it was over. I told her how real my pain was, and how real their fu*king was etc. She tried to say this was not accurate so I just typed out her fb password. Silence for a bit.
This situation is not typical. How one single word cuts down every possible defense or lie she might try to mount.

There was a very brief effort at justification on her part, as predicted by many of you. So brief that it was about 4 lines of text. But this was countered easily as her list of my sins pales into insignificance compared to hers. She dropped it.

She accepted her guilt very quickly. Agreed to never make contact with him again. Just in case, I sent an email to OM that she is being monitored, if there is any further communication then I would send their 22,000 chat log to his wife, and anyone else I felt would hurt him. She already found out about their affair and did see some facebook chats but I suspect she might not have seen all of them (because he is still in residence). When I get her email address I'm going to send her an email saying that I too have seen the facebook chats. If she wants further information I will send her the full log. 

WS was very contrite very quickly. Expressed how deeply sorry she was, said that she didn't deserve me. She said I should cancel her cable tv and her gym membership as she did not deserve it. She said she was going to work harder around the house (certainly not a demand of mine but a long held pet peeve). Surprised me when she said she would be making up the spare room when she got back as this was a direct suggestion from this group. All offered without any demand.

It's like she got it. She knew what the steps were. Understood how I felt.

I told her I have had some expert counseling (that's you guys), she made the assumption that I had found a therapist. I told her that I have a list of demands she must follow. The NC letter, etc. She agreed. The rest of the demands can wait till she gets back. I don't think she will balk.

I started out very angry but she has managed to make me feel much calmer. I might sleep tonight better than I have in weeks.

I'm not sure on the merits of holding d-day via FB. It certainly took the edge off and seemed to get the desired results. I have always shied away from confrontation. Those "man up" and "grow a spine" comments were quite apt and stung a little. She has stated that she is scared to face me when she gets back. I'm not prone to anger or aggression. It's the shame she will feel. We both acknowledge we have a long way to go, that she has a lot to answer for. She resolved to be a better wife to me and do anything she can to make me love her again.

So the unknown now is how will I feel when I look into her eyes at the airport. She is expecting a cold reception and suggested we just briefly touch and our son won't notice. 

Part of me wants to go through the hundreds of the most offensive passages of their text chat and explain how much it hurt me and ask her how she could do that. This will bring more shame to her, which she deserves. 

Is this the goal, to elicit as much shame as possible from her and to make her feel as bad as possible? There are no real answers that she could give me that would explain or mitigate it. But if shame is what is going to help R then shame she will get. Is this the right approach?

I have been focusing so much on getting to this point I don't know how to proceed. I need more reading.

It's been a long stressful night. Time for bed.

I used lots of your advice today. I know some of you will still tell me I didn't follow the right parts or was too easy on her or something like that. Go ahead, I'm waiting.

If she doesn't cheat on me ever again, and I can get over what she did, R is possible right? That second if is huge but so far so good.


----------



## Malaise

Dude

You got to change your username!


----------



## Cuckold

Malaise said:


> Dude
> 
> You got to change your username!


I have looked into the User Control Panel but don't see an option to do this. How is this done?


----------



## Complexity

Cuckold said:


> Well today was d-day - part one I suppose.
> I was supposed to wait until she got back but we were talking and both knew what was coming. It happened over fb chat. Monitored text messages indicated that OM was not going to see her, that he was already throwing her under the bus, albeit slowly and gently. I was no longer concerned she would not bring my son back.
> 
> You were all right, she did not come clean right away. At first she said it was not reality and it was over. I told her how real my pain was, and how real their fu*king was etc. She tried to say this was not accurate so I just typed out her fb password. Silence for a bit.
> This situation is not typical. How one single word cuts down every possible defense or lie she might try to mount.
> 
> There was a very brief effort at justification on her part, as predicted by many of you. So brief that it was about 4 lines of text. But this was countered easily as her list of my sins pales into insignificance compared to hers. She dropped it.
> 
> She accepted her guilt very quickly. Agreed to never make contact with him again. Just in case, I sent an email to OM that she is being monitored, if there is any further communication then I would send their 22,000 chat log to his wife, and anyone else I felt would hurt him. She already found out about their affair and did see some facebook chats but I suspect she might not have seen all of them (because he is still in residence). When I get her email address I'm going to send her an email saying that I too have seen the facebook chats. If she wants further information I will send her the full log.
> 
> WS was very contrite very quickly. Expressed how deeply sorry she was, said that she didn't deserve me. *She said I should cancel her cable tv and her gym membership as she did not deserve it*. She said she was going to work harder around the house (certainly not a demand of mine but a long held pet peeve). Surprised me when she said she would be making up the spare room when she got back as this was a direct suggestion from this group. All offered without any demand.
> 
> It's like she got it. She knew what the steps were. Understood how I felt.
> 
> I told her I have had some expert counseling (that's you guys), she made the assumption that I had found a therapist. I told her that I have a list of demands she must follow. The NC letter, etc. She agreed. The rest of the demands can wait till she gets back. I don't think she will balk.
> 
> I started out very angry but she has managed to make me feel much calmer. I might sleep tonight better than I have in weeks.
> 
> I'm not sure on the merits of holding d-day via FB. It certainly took the edge off and seemed to get the desired results. I have always shied away from confrontation. Those "man up" and "grow a spine" comments were quite apt and stung a little. She has stated that she is scared to face me when she gets back. I'm not prone to anger or aggression. It's the shame she will feel. We both acknowledge we have a long way to go, that she has a lot to answer for. She resolved to be a better wife to me and do anything she can to make me love her again.
> 
> So the unknown now is how will I feel when I look into her eyes at the airport. She is expecting a cold reception and suggested we just briefly touch and our son won't notice.
> 
> Part of me wants to go through the hundreds of the most offensive passages of their text chat and explain how much it hurt me and ask her how she could do that. This will bring more shame to her, which she deserves.
> 
> Is this the goal, to elicit as much shame as possible from her and to make her feel as bad as possible? There are no real answers that she could give me that would explain or mitigate it. But if shame is what is going to help R then shame she will get. Is this the right approach?
> 
> I have been focusing so much on getting to this point I don't know how to proceed. I need more reading.
> 
> It's been a long stressful night. Time for bed.
> 
> I used lots of your advice today. I know some of you will still tell me I didn't follow the right parts or was too easy on her or something like that. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
> 
> If she doesn't cheat on me ever again, and I can get over what she did, R is possible right? That second if is huge but so far so good.


lol is that it? she can't be serious........


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

You confronted her on face book, she denied and told you when you shown her the proof so she didn't have any way to deny but she tried to blame shift. you still believe her words and think that she is truly remorseful, because she acepted. wait and watch her actions. Even you had to ask for remorsefulness from her and she started telling you sorry!!!!!!!!!! She is definitely in the process of saving her as$ and safety of her home as OM dumped her.

What are the consequences she have to face for ****ting on your face other than NC?

Wait for a little to change your name.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Complexity said:


> lol is that it? she can't be serious........




Yaaah very tough consequences for cheating on her husband. :rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Cuckold

Kallan Pavithran said:


> You confronted her on face book, she denied and told you when you shown her the proof so she didn't have any way to deny but she tried to blame shift. you still believe her words and think that she is truly remorseful, because she acepted. wait and watch her actions. Even you had to ask for remorsefulness from her and she started telling you sorry!!!!!!!!!! She is definitely in the process of saving her as$ and safety of her home as OM dumped her.
> 
> What are the consequences she have to face for ****ting on your face other than NC?
> 
> Wait for a little to change your name.


I don't think I asked for her to be remorseful. 

Those are the questions I am struggling with. What should the consequences be? I have never been a big fan of punishment as a first approach. Just as in crime, rehabilitation of the felon is far superior to just endless punishment.

Her reactions were exactly as I was told the would be except it didn't take days to weeks to go through the steps. They all happened one after the other, in the order predicted, just very quickly. Does this suggest insincerity to you? If she had tried lying for weeks, then blamed me for a few more weeks then ranted and raved some more. Would this have indicated a better chance at R?

D-Day is not over. There is lots more to come.


----------



## warlock07

Confrontation on chat is the worst thing you could do. You cannot look at the face or know the tone of her voice or her intentions . Atleast you should have skyped


----------



## jnj express

You took the easy way out---you don't confront unless it is face to face, and you can watch her, see if she is lying, etc----make your points/demands, guage how the situation is going!!!!!

So she is calling the shots on her consequences---is that how your mge actually is----she calls the shots

She cheats, she completely degrades you, and she decides what the punishment, and boundaries will be

You are gonna take her back just like that-------If you have any self respect---you do not pick her up at the airport---let her take a cab.

Your son will live thru, having you not pick him and his mother up,---let her know in some small way, that she just can't come back home, and say, OK, I am done with my lover---he chose his wife over me, so I guess, you are next best, so I will come back to you

That is not the way, this is spose to play out----but then again, this IS your life isn't it---you get to spend the rest of your days with this woman, who totally blew up your mge., and was happy to do so!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cuckold

Next demand. She must write a letter to all of her friends that knew about the affair and either did not try to stop it or encouraged it. It must outline how wrong she was, that I never did anything that warranted her behaviour, that she is ashamed and asking for my forgiveness. Also, I don't want any of them in our house ever again.


----------



## warlock07

I wouldn't be surprised if she 180's before she comes back!! 

The events in the last couple of pages seem a bit too perfect. Any chance both of them found out about the spyware and played along. (the OM dumping her, her sending texts about not able to even talk to him)


----------



## badbane

Cuckold said:


> Next demand. She must write a letter to all of her friends that knew about the affair and either did not try to stop it or encouraged it. It must outline how wrong she was, that I never did anything that warranted her behaviour, that she is ashamed and asking for my forgiveness. Also, I don't want any of them in our house ever again.


Listen I would not pick this woman up at the airport. I would take the kids home, give her enough money to take a cab to her parents house, and give you some time to get a game plan.

I am confused as to why you would expose all of this via facebook. You are not dealing with your wife. You are dealing with an accomplished cheater. She may have a hidden email account, skype, or other means of communication. Now she has time if she is planning for a false R, very likely given the length of the relationship, you have given her time. 

Why would you not tell the OMW. It isn't vindictive at all. This woman is living with a man that is capable and willing to cheat. She deserves to have the full knowledge and choices that you do. Telling the OMW also helps prevent the OM having the time or freedom to whisper into your WW ear while she is still in the fog. 
All it takes to kill a good R is one undetected email, one skype message, or one phone call. Tell the OMW now and stop worrying about being nice. This is WAR friend you are fighting for your marriage and your family. 

Listen you are doing well so far but you need to step up the game here. It would be one thing if this was just some EA that just started. This was much much much more than that. You are still fighting with your emotions and need to continue to be separated for awhile. She need to understand through your actions that infidelity in any form will not be tolerated. You should have a dna test, and Std test run on you and your wife. 

You do all of this before she is allowed to be at home in her nice stable home. You have got to stop trying to forgive right now. You don't know how much you have to forgive her for. The DNA test is to find out if she has committed the worst betrayal in a marriage. To protect yourself if the child is not yours. You can still have a relationship with the child. You can give your wife financial support, but you won't be court ordered to do so. 

You need the whole truth and you are getting dangerously close to rug sweeping the biggest issues. Please slow down and listen to us. This isn't our first rodeo and this script is one of the worst ones. It will be even harder if you are in the middle of R and you find out she gave you an STD from the OM. Or if your child needs blood and you can't donate blood because he is not your child.

You need these answers first. As hard as it may be to consider, your whole life and marriage maybe a lie. You don't wanna wake up everyday with that stress on your shoulders.


----------



## Cuckold

Next demand. Obvious stuff. Turn over all passwords to phone, laptop and computer and donNt change them. There are key loggers in place. I have not disclosed the spy software or key loggers.


----------



## happyman64

****

Just stay firm and get everything you need in place for her to come home Done!

Do not accept any excuses from her.

And I am glad you confronted now instead of waiting.

And yes you should show her everything you have but after you get the whole story face to face.

And maybe she is not allowed home but I do not see that as a way of getting all the details and what you need from her done.

I am proud of you and feel your pain.

And yes hold everyone's feet to the fire that enabled the affair.

HM64


----------



## Cuckold

badbane said:


> Listen I would not pick this woman up at the airport. I would take the kids home, give her enough money to take a cab to her parents house, and give you some time to get a game plan.


She has no where to go. No family here, she left that behind years ago when she came here for me. She has no money or job. Not my problem you say? If I can't stand the sight of her when she gets back then arrangements will have to be made.


----------



## Cuckold

happyman64 said:


> ****
> 
> Just stay firm and get everything you need in place for her to come home Done!
> 
> Do not accept any excuses from her.
> 
> And I am glad you confronted now instead of waiting.
> 
> And yes you should show her everything you have but after you get the whole story face to face.
> 
> And maybe she is not allowed home but I do not see that as a way of getting all the details and what you need from her done.
> 
> I am proud of you and feel your pain.
> 
> And yes hold everyone's feet to the fire that enabled the affair.
> 
> HM64



Thanks HM, I was beginning to think that people here had thrown up their hands in despair at not following their advice exactly. I'm seen as a wimp and yes, the username is apt. 

I did hear someone post once that this place is not R friendly as the success rate is so poor. I have to try.


----------



## Cuckold

Yes, STD tests for all. I'm not really interested in the dna test unless we get to the stage of paying child support. Yes, it would be the true definition of a cuckold, or more correctly a cuckoo if I was to raise another mans child as my own. I would gladly pay to support this wonderful little man - I can afford it. If he's not mine then I am probably infertile and would never have a child of my own.


----------



## Cuckold

badbane said:


> Why would you not tell the OMW. It isn't vindictive at all. This woman is living with a man that is capable and willing to cheat. She deserves to have the full knowledge and choices that you do. Telling the OMW also helps prevent the OM having the time or freedom to whisper into your WW ear while she is still in the fog.


I am going to contact the OMW. This was the one part of the plan best done with my son back in the country. If telling her blows their marriage to sh*t the very first thing he will do is drive accross town and see her.

I will email her telling her I have seen what she has seen and tell her I have the whole affair in their own words (and pictures...ugh). if she wants it. This is just my way. I'm leading the horse to water but I'm not going to hold it's head under.


----------



## Cuckold

My physical transformation and self respect boosting is coming along. New haicut is getting lots of attention. Dropped a ton of cash on a new wardrobe. Looking damn fine and turning heads lol.
I will be making it very clear this was not done for her. This seems conducive to some of the sentiments in the 180. I plan to execute the 180 and have already been doing so. No doubt I will have my own spin on it as I seem to do rather than following it to the letter. My own take on life is never to blindly follow instructions. I try to understand the purpose and the reasons for the advice and get there by the means I feel most appropriate.


----------



## Cuckold

warlock07 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if she 180's before she comes back!!
> 
> The events in the last couple of pages seem a bit too perfect. Any chance both of them found out about the spyware and played along. (the OM dumping her, her sending texts about not able to even talk to him)


Yes warlock, this had occured to me too. But when I look at the chronology, he started saying he could not see her quite a while ago. She was still further incriminating herself and begging him to see her. To give them credit for coming up with a ruse but to execute it so badly seems unlikely.
They would surely have sent texts agreeing not to see each other and declaring their relationship over. Or staged a big fight whereby she dumps him. Its me they would be playing to, not OMW. The texts I read would be more favorable for OMW to read rather than me.


----------



## survivorwife

Cuckold said:


> My physical transformation and self respect boosting is coming along. New haicut is getting lots of attention. Dropped a ton of cash on a new wardrobe. Looking damn fine and turning heads lol.
> I will be making it very clear this was not done for her. This seems conducive to some of the sentiments in the 180. I plan to execute the 180 and have already been doing so. No doubt I will have my own spin on it as I seem to do rather than following it to the letter. My own take on life is never to blindly follow instructions. I try to understand the purpose and the reasons for the advice and get there by the means I feel most appropriate.



:smthumbup:

Very good start. Taking care of yourself is the essence of the 180, and you seem to have the concept down pat. I wish you the best. Stay strong!


----------



## lordmayhem

Cuckold said:


> I am going to contact the OMW. This was the one part of the plan best done with my son back in the country. If telling her blows their marriage to sh*t the very first thing he will do is drive accross town and see her.


This very well may happen, however, *the majority of the time, the OM will throw your WW under the bus in an effort to save his marriage* - especially if they have children. He will be doing damage control, telling his own BW that your WW was nothing but a fling and that she means nothing to him. He will be too busy trying to save his marriage to even think of your WW. Even if he does run to your WW at first, this would only be temporary. This is backed up by hundreds of infidelity stories.

Now if he was deeply emotionally invested in the affair, then yes, he may run to her. But the odds are against it.


----------



## Cuckold

Is it accurate to view the fog as a sickness? I have read the articles on brain chemistry, dopamine, seratonin etc.

It used to be that alcoholics were treated like losers who put themselves into their position and got little sympathy. Now in Canada at least, you can claim disability for alcoholism and get paid leave from work to deal with it. If stress at work or abuse by a manager or poisoned work environment were to blame, compensation can be awarded.

Can I treat her like I am helping her to get sober? The steps of AA also involve confronting the people you hurt with your addiction, explaining how you undertand the pain you caused, ending contact with enablers who helped you ruin your life. There seems to be a lot of parallels between these two.

How far can you take this metaphor? What are the differences?


----------



## crossbar

Alright dude! You're finding your spine! Even your posts sound a lot more confident!!!

I agree, there needs to be consquences for her actions. Full disclosure to all email and facebook and phone accounts. I also agree with you about waiting until her plane is in the air to expose to the OMW. Make sure your kid gets home. Then blow up the OMW with your information. She knows some stuff, that's why the OM threw your wife under the bus. But, the OMW might not know everything. Remember, cheaters are incredibly good liars. So, the OM might have spun a story that got him on thin ice rather than crashing through it. Therefore, he's walking lightfooted and he doesn't need your WW walking on that ice either. That's probably why he hasn't seen her.

Do the 180 now and when she gets there. Read it again and understand the do's and don'ts. ALL OF THEM!!! Let her SEE that you are capable of living without her. Therefore, she'll be the one that has to realize that SHE needs to do the heavy lifting to fix this, not you. I would still contact all of her family and inform them that you and your wife are having a difficult time of it right now "due to your wife's infidelity so we are both looking for your support." Remember that metaphor I posted about the roaches? It still applies here. Remember, she was in the driver's seat with her affair. Now, you're in the driver's seat as far as where this relationship is going. Either to R or D. She doesn't have a say in it.

Find a marriage counselor that specializes in infidelity. Do not go to any run of the mill MC. More than likely, they'll give you some Oprah/ Dr. Phil responses like, she had an affair because YOU didn't to this, that or the other. "Her affair was your fault" kind of crap. No. Don't go to those. So, do your homework and find one that specializes.

And above all else! Follow through with everything you say you are going to do! She needs to know that you are serious! No baulking what-so-ever!


----------



## Shaggy

The two big mistakes you made was telling her you has her fb password and telling the OM you were monitoring her.

This revealed your source and she can now hide better such as a burner phone.


----------



## Cuckold

lordmayhem said:


> This very well may happen, however, *the majority of the time, the OM will throw your WW under the bus in an effort to save his marriage* - especially if they have children. He will be doing damage control, telling his own BW that your WW was nothing but a fling and that she means nothing to him. He will be too busy trying to save his marriage to even think of your WW. Even if he does run to your WW at first, this would only be temporary. This is backed up by hundreds of infidelity stories.
> 
> Now if he was deeply emotionally invested in the affair, then yes, he may run to her. But the odds are against it.


Trust me, she and I will talk when I deem it best for me. Why play odds when you don't have to. My email to OM will already have him sh*tting bricks. Disclosure now would cause a big fight after which the coward will storm out of the house. Where is the first place he will go?
I don't want ANY contact between then. Not even a goodbye hug. If she see's him, she has broken the contract. I can't ignore that and would have to act or I would be seen as weak.

I will not disappoint you all by not disclosing to OMW.


----------



## Cuckold

Shaggy said:


> The two big mistakes you made was telling her you has her fb password and telling the OM you were monitoring her.
> 
> This revealed your source and she can now hide better such as a burner phone.


I am getting conflicting advice and must sort through it. When I suggested not telling herI know everthing and letting her admit to me on her own, this was overwhelmingly rejected. The only way to confront her with the facts I know was to tell her what I know. There is no way I could do that without revealing I have read her facebook. Yes, I resisted this advice at first and was told to grow a spine. I grew one.

Regarding telling the OM about the monitoring. This was a calculated risk. My over riding goal was to prevent further contact - rule number one right? I had to convince him that he would get caught. I referred to other surveilance methods "that you can't even imagine" that I did not disclose. For all he knows there is a private investigator parked outside his house. My threat was sending their chat log not just to OMW but to his boss, his friends and family. I think I did the right thing


----------



## Cuckold

warlock07 said:


> Confrontation on chat is the worst thing you could do. You cannot look at the face or know the tone of her voice or her intentions . Atleast you should have skyped


Yes, the confrontation was not planned and I deviated from my plan. Skype is what they used to do together. She has suggested Skyping with me recently before the confrontation and the thought of it made me ill.


----------



## Cuckold

crossbar said:


> I would still contact all of her family and inform them that you and your wife are having a difficult time of it right now "due to your wife's infidelity so we are both looking for your support."


I'm not ready to go there yet. I just think this does more harm to the R than help.

The result of this is more shame. Yes she needs to feel shame, but not a nuclear bomb of shame. My family is not really going to be of much help in the R. I'm getting enough support from the few close friends I have finally confided in and the good people here on TAM.

Sure, if I see an insufficient amount of shame and feel the answer s to ratchet that up, this could be an option.

Other than shame, what are the reasons for doing this?


----------



## survivorwife

Cuckold said:


> I'm not ready to go there yet. I just think this does more harm to the R than help.
> 
> The result of this is more shame. Yes she needs to feel shame, but not a nuclear bomb of shame. My family is not really going to be of much help in the R. I'm getting enough support from the few close friends I have finally confided in and the good people here on TAM.
> 
> Sure, if I see an insufficient amount of shame and feel the answer s to ratchet that up, this could be an option.
> 
> Other than shame, what are the reasons for doing this?


To snap her out of the fog, outside of your relationship. The other person (trusted family member for ex.) will then understand the dynamics at play and the truth of it. She won't be able to blame you or re-write the marital history to justify her affair, rather she will have to face what she did head on, with those people watching her (extra eyes) to get her back to reality.


----------



## badbane

Cuckold said:


> She has no where to go. No family here, she left that behind years ago when she came here for me. She has no money or job. Not my problem you say? If I can't stand the sight of her when she gets back then arrangements will have to be made.


Then give her enough money to go to a hotel or motel. She needs to see what life would be like with out you in it. She needs to understand what she has done. If she comes home right now she has had a lot of time to think about how to work you, play on your mind, and other things like that. She has been doing this to you and if you think she will stop cold turkey after doing it soooo long is a mistake. 

IF she comes home she will be sleeping in a warm house. She will be seeing the kids. She will be home without you there. Then her life hasn't changed. She is still in the same situation she left to be with the OM in.
I'd take away everything you have paid for. If she needs a way to communicate you get her a prepaid phone to call you on. She has been screwing you over for a long time. She has been having unprotected sex with someone else for a long time. She even went out of the country and used her family as a cover to go have sex. 

Do you think that if you were in another country she would fly to where you were at and surprise you? NO she wouldn't. 
Did she worry about having a child with this man? NO she had unprotected sex with this man several times.
Did she ever attempt to come clean or show any guilt before she got caught? No she enjoyed the Affair and played you like a fiddle.
Right now she got caught. She feels bad that she got caught. So how long is it going to take before she starts feeling true remorse to see the real weight of her actions. I mean being kicked out and forced to stay in a motel while you sort your stuff out is a small price to pay.
Lets say that the OM wife left him and he asked her to stay with him. It is likely that you could have been trying to get your son back from another country. 

There are stories like this out there and you were probably almost one of them. This was bad, not she needs to come home and we'll discuss this bad. This is OMG my wife almost took my son from me, left me for another man , and possible gave me an STD bad. 

I just don't get how you can look at what has happened and still want that woman around you. I mean if it were my wife she's have to walk ten miles through the rain , sleet and hail up hill on her hands and knees before I ever gave a damn about her again.

I worry that your letting your broken heart make decisions your head should be making right now. It is understandable it just seems like you are in a form of denial about how bad this is. I would just hate for you to end up in a bad situation with all of this because you rushed things.


----------



## Cuckold

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Yaaah very tough consequences for cheating on her husband. :rofl::rofl::rofl:


Yes, it's pretty crazy for her to say that. But I don't think she intended this to be a complete list. It was an expression of how unworthy she is of _everything_ I do for her. I've been very generous and buy her everything she needs, she has a credit card, I never question her spending. 

She bungled the delivery but the sentiment is a good sign.


----------



## badbane

Cuckold said:


> I'm not ready to go there yet. I just think this does more harm to the R than help.
> 
> The result of this is more shame. Yes she needs to feel shame, but not a nuclear bomb of shame. My family is not really going to be of much help in the R. I'm getting enough support from the few close friends I have finally confided in and the good people here on TAM.
> 
> Sure, if I see an insufficient amount of shame and feel the answer s to ratchet that up, this could be an option.
> 
> Other than shame, what are the reasons for doing this?


Tell me why your wife doesn't deserve an Atomic Bomb's worth of shame?


----------



## Cuckold

survivorwife said:


> To snap her out of the fog, outside of your relationship. The other person (trusted family member for ex.) will then understand the dynamics at play and the truth of it. She won't be able to blame you or re-write the marital history to justify her affair, rather she will have to face what she did head on, with those people watching her (extra eyes) to get her back to reality.


She will be monitored so closely she won't be able to f*rt without me knowing.

Any attempt at blaming me will be sorely regretted.

If I was mistreating her, she would have discussed it with him. I have all their discussions. There is nothing much of consequence there. I will have this in my pocket. (Actually, I'm not sure I could even lift a printout of the whole thing)


----------



## Cuckold

badbane said:


> Tell me why your wife doesn't deserve an Atomic Bomb's worth of shame?


Atomic bombs poison the ground for centuries and the fallout drifts to places you have no control.

Napalm yes, A-bomb no.


----------



## badbane

I understand your sentimentality towards you wife but she is a long term super addicted cheater. Yes napalm, a bomb, and if you have to throw the friggin sun at the earth. 

Shame and guilt suck and while exposing hurts it just adds more pressure to that fog. The faster she is out of the fog the sooner she will realize that she was in a fog. The more people she can call you crazy to is the more obstacles in your path. IF you get there first she can't build allies. You should understand you are at war with a total emotional fantasy that has no basis on reality. 
It appears you think she is in a good place but you don't know who is walking off of that plane. 

The remorseful wife or the cunning cheater planning a false R. There is a reason the most successful R's / DDays' are the ones where there are tons of exposure so the WS has no where to hide. Where the WS has the rug yanked out from under them. There is a clear message backed up through action. That infidelity will not be tolerated and this is the reality of the situation if you decide to continue this A in any way. 
I would also get a prenup written up.
If she doesn't like it too bad she should have kept her legs closed. She should have told you she was getting attached. She should have could have done a million things. Instead she choose ignore you, play you, then go out of the country for someone else.


----------



## Cuckold

Badbane you may have read my mind about the prenup. I was thinking of that just today. I guess technically it's a post nup but assume it works the same way. Although she could. claim the agreement was signed under duress and threats of homelesness.

As I alluded to in a previous post I experienced a friend with a crazy desperate wife before. All they have to do is pick up the phone and you are in the slammer. Sure its he said she said,but she has no legal fees.

All my life I have considered that under no fault divorce the woman is entitled to something. If she gives up her career to raise my children but has to reenter the job market with a blank resume, she is disadvantaged.

Now of course this is not really no fault divorce but courts favour women and she can spin a long story of neglect and emotional abuse. I'm not mr perfect.

If I thought my wife was like that I would not be considering R. I take all the warnings and safeguards to protect myself. But R is my primary goal. I won't jeprodise that unless I have concerns. There is a new sheriff in town. the benevolent dictator. If she abides by the terms and I have means of verification, the big guns will be held at bay.


----------



## Cuckold

Keep in mnd everyone that I have undisputable proof of EVERYTHING they said to each other for 15 months. (except the skype cyber sex thank god) I see her thought processes. she was in a fog no doubt. she did not bad mouth me much even during her direst moments of self justification. She expressed guilt many times. She could have deleted her fb chat with two clicks at anytime. She was openly daring me to look at it which she knew I could do at anytime. She was crying for help. Now she is going to get it. She was diagnosed with depression years ago and took medication for it. She has already mentioned getting medical advice and perhaps resuming medication.

I think she is sick. The fog is a sickness. You don't throw the sick or mentally ill onto the street. She can be cured. The question is, can I?


----------



## happyman64

Cuckold said:


> Keep in mnd everyone that I have undisputable proof of EVERYTHING they said to each other for 15 months. (except the skype cyber sex thank god) I see her thought processes. she was in a fog no doubt. she did not bad mouth me much even during her direst moments of self justification. She expressed guilt many times. She could have deleted her fb chat with two clicks at anytime. She was openly daring me to look at it which she knew I could do at anytime. She was crying for help. Now she is going to get it. She was diagnosed with depression years ago and took medication for it. She has already mentioned getting medical advice and perhaps resuming medication.
> 
> I think she is sick. The fog is a sickness. You don't throw the sick or mentally ill onto the street. She can be cured. The question is, can I?


****

Of course you can forgive her if you want to. If she is honest, forthcoming with the truth and remorseful.

The key is to confront (which you did), set your boundaries with her, define the conditions needed to Reconcile and then see if she is capable of the heavy lifting.

You can forgive by the way you are posting here but it is hard work for both of you.

The key is that you both are honest with each other and come to the realization that you still love each other. Until you do that you cannot start to rebuild the marriage from scratch.

Rest Up buddy because you are going to need all your strength.
HM64


----------



## OldWolf57

You are well on your way to curing yourself with your new found confidence. 
Give no heed to what actons you have already taken. Just go with what you know is right for your family.
We advise but there is always variables.

Although, your thread kind of remind me of a poster who wife promised to cleanse herself at the temple while she was visiting family, but never had the OM name removed from the tatoo once she was back.
So stay on her once she is back.


----------



## Cuckold

OldWolf57 said:


> Although, your thread kind of remind me of a poster who wife promised to cleanse herself at the temple while she was visiting family, but never had the OM name removed from the tatoo once she was back.
> So stay on her once she is back.


I'm intrigued by your story OldWolf, I assume the tatoo is a metaphor. So you are saying you think she still holds a candle for OM. Perhaps, we will see. She is extremely remorseful. She tried some justification but was shut down and accepted. I want here to write letters, to put it in writing that she accepts full responsibility and that I in no way deserved what she did to me. Then comes the letters to the friends and neighbors who enabled her. I want to ask her what she told them. What can she possibly have said about me that led them to encourage or condone her behavior. I want to deliver those letters myself, in person. If she would go with me while I hand her friend the letter, all the better. If she can do this, it goes a long way. 

Friends seem to think their role is to support their friend no matter what. Is that really the role of a friend? Thankfully I have one close friend that calls me on my bull**** and of course I have all of you who can smell bull**** from a mile away. She never had that, or at least didn't choose that friend as a confidant.


----------



## OldWolf57

No, she actually got a tat of a butterfly on her back with the kids name in it. But also had the OM name spaced in too. The BS posted a pic of it.
I like your plans, but you will have to be on your toes for a while now.
You scared the heck out of her, especially with her not knowing if you was going to start sending copies of facebook chats.
So her only recourse was to agree to all demands.

I mentioned how easily she folded, and promised things like she has been reading stuff we recommend.

So DO NOT let your gard down now or when she return. Let her truly earn you back.
If you ask for some info and think she is lying, just say you will setup a polygraph an get the truth.

Again,, Good Luck Going Forward.


----------



## Cuckold

OldWolf57 said:


> If you ask for some info and think she is lying, just say you will setup a polygraph an get the truth.
> 
> Again,, Good Luck Going Forward.


 Goodness, to think that a polygraph could hold a marriage together. 

I have reached a new stage in recovery. I think I will start a new thread. I look back at where this thread started and my question to you all was can R ever happen after this. Few of the responses dealt with that possibility. No one has yet come forward and stated that they recovered from a betrayal of this magnitude. It's such a daunting road ahead. It would be nice to read one positive story and advice from someone who has managed to accomplish what I seek.


----------



## river rat

Cuckold said:


> Is it accurate to view the fog as a sickness? I have read the articles on brain chemistry, dopamine, seratonin etc.
> 
> It used to be that alcoholics were treated like losers who put themselves into their position and got little sympathy. Now in Canada at least, you can claim disability for alcoholism and get paid leave from work to deal with it. If stress at work or abuse by a manager or poisoned work environment were to blame, compensation can be awarded.
> 
> Can I treat her like I am helping her to get sober? The steps of AA also involve confronting the people you hurt with your addiction, explaining how you undertand the pain you caused, ending contact with enablers who helped you ruin your life. There seems to be a lot of parallels between these two.
> 
> How far can you take this metaphor? What are the differences?


First, let me say that I have read your thread and find your transformation remarkable and admirable. My wife and I are many years into R, and I'm glad that we made it. The process was arduous and long; it took years before I once again felt safe in my marriage. Part of that process was being able to feel safe in myself. You'll get there. 
As to the classification of adultery as an addiction, and therefore, an illness, I guess that you can make that argument. Neuroscience continues to reveal to us the chemical nature of our behaviors. However, I do get impatient with those who wish to consign blame for all their misdeeds to inherited neurochemistry. That is not the case. There is still the element of choice. I have extensive experience w/ alcoholism in both my family and my profession. As anyone in AA will tell you, the alcoholic has to CHOOSE not to drink. Sobriety is a choice. Likewise, marital fidelity is a choice. Fog or no fog, your wife must make this choice.


----------



## river rat

One other thought. I agree w/ the others. Change your moniker. It says that you are weak and see yourself as a victim. Your actions do not reveal weakness, nor have you behaved like a victim.


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## Cuckold

Thanks River Rat, finally a story of triumph after trauma. TAM does not let you change your user name unless its under 'extreme' circumstances. Who do I contact to request this?

I agree a name change is due. I think I would change my screen name to "Churchill". A previous poster wrote that I needed to be "more like Churchill and less like Chamberlain". As a Brit, I loved this quote and I think it helped me. 

I could also just create a new username and suspect I would need an additional email address as most web sites dont allow multiple accounts tied to the same email. 

Thanks again River Rat.


----------



## chumplady

> She was crying for help.


Bullsh*t. 

She was crying for cake. 

Affairs about ENTITLEMENT. She wanted her fantasy guy -- to the point she would leave you and take your kid AND she wanted the safety of Mr. Backup Plan (make that your new moniker). 

Pity for her gets you played. She's not sick. She knew what she was doing and no one held a gun to her head. Affairs are thousands upon thousands of individual decisions. Each time she CHOSE to cheat. She planned it. She executed it.

Don't sugarcoat this. You R, you do so with the full knowledge of what she is capable of. She's sorry she was caught. She didn't have her come to Jesus moment on her own. She "realized all this" after OM threw her under the bus and you busted her.

Her first call wasn't remorse -- it was blameshifting. When that didn't work, she tried apologies. 

You want to stay -- get a postnup. Sorry is as sorry DOES. She balks? There is your answer.


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## Cuckold

Just picked her and our son up from the airport. She didn't recognise me with the haircut and the fancy new threads.
She might not recognise me at all when we start hashing things out later.


----------



## chumplady

Good luck Cuckhold.


----------



## Cuckold

Taking things slowly with reconciliation.
First demands given today, hand over any gifts he gave you. Hand over any clothes she wore when intimate with him. Delete or destroy all photographs of him. Tell me all passwords and don't change them. Clean out facebook of all messages, posts and likes he made.

Up next, the letters she must write. To me, to him and to those so called friends that acted as enablers.


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## Acabado

I don't know whether she's going to go underground with OM as he seemd done with her anyway but I just to warn you about friends/enablers.
She my write those letters but she's going to save face anyway with them. Basic human psychology. As you are snooping expect phone calls/texts/emails to these so called friends in full damage control mode (she was busted, she had to do it...). I don't see anyone "getting it" from day one. Nobody goes to this stage so suddenly after a very long EA-PA.


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## Cuckold

The silence I interpreted as agreement to my first set of demands was not agreement after all.

She is 'still deciding' whether to agree to destroying all trace of him in her life.

Hardball 180 starts today.


----------



## river rat

Cuckold said:


> The silence I interpreted as agreement to my first set of demands was not agreement after all.
> 
> She is 'still deciding' whether to agree to destroying all trace of him in her life.
> 
> Hardball 180 starts today.


Good move. As anyone here will tell you, there is absolutely no chance of R until she ends the affair, and that includes all the mementos she's hanging onto. Meanwhile the 180 will help you continue to develop as an individual w/o her. At some point, you may well decide that you have a better life waiting for you that doesn't include her. She needs to know that the clock is running on that.


----------



## happyman64

Cuckold said:


> The silence I interpreted as agreement to my first set of demands was not agreement after all.
> 
> She is 'still deciding' whether to agree to destroying all trace of him in her life.
> 
> Hardball 180 starts today.


Cuckold,

Screw the 180. Go on your states website and print out the D papers.

Hand them to your wife and ask her to fill them out now.

That will give her your answer to her not wanting him 1000% out of your life.

HM64


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## Shaggy

Have you fully exposed the OM?

Have you now exposed to friends/family?

Your wife is using this time to set you up in my opinion. She's figuring out how to continue the affair.


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## happyman64

Shaggy said:


> Have you fully exposed the OM?
> 
> Have you now exposed to friends/family?
> 
> Your wife is using this time to set you up in my opinion. She's figuring out how to continue the affair.


:iagree:

And do yourself a favor do not be nice. Nail her butt to the wall. She might as well meet the new you now!!!

And take your sons passport and lock it up somewhere safe that she does not have access to.

I guess her indecision in a way is a decision. 

Good Luck

HM64


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## Acabado

Cuckold said:


> The silence I interpreted as agreement to my first set of demands was not agreement after all.
> 
> She is 'still deciding' whether to agree to destroying all trace of him in her life.
> 
> Hardball 180 starts today.


She just wanted you to cool off. She's in full wayward mode, entitled, at the drives sit becuase it was her world last few years, believing you won't leave her ever (she knows OM is a dead end). Somehow after all that time racionaliting her affair she believed you gave her persmission, she painted you as weak for "allowing" her, she believes she has you under her thomb, she devaluated, degraded you. Seriously. The fact you were in the dark is irrelevant, unless you are very firm showing her all is going to change.
Give her no choice, no space to bargain. Tell her she has just once chance, a gift you give her.
Your conditions, religiously, or divorce.
Make it real. Follow your lawyer advice to a T.

If I were you I'd purge OM from your house ASAP anyway.


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## warlock07

cuckold said:


> the silence i interpreted as agreement to my first set of demands was not agreement after all.
> 
> She is 'still deciding' whether to agree to destroying all trace of him in her life.
> .


*surprise!!!!*


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## oneMOreguy

Cuckold said:


> The silence I interpreted as agreement to my first set of demands was not agreement after all.
> 
> She is 'still deciding' whether to agree to destroying all trace of him in her life.
> 
> Hardball 180 starts today.


.....it doesn't matter if she never sees him again in person or not....unless she makes her best effort to purge him from her thoughts by removing all reminders, she is just not going to be very effective at rebuilding her marriage with you......I left too many reminders of my inappropriate friend around, and just finally woke up and realized that it all had to go before I could completely rebuild my life....good luck


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## noelle

In my opinion, I think that she needs to go through that process in her own time frame. I haven't read your entire story but if she was in an affair it is said that they grieve that OP whether you like it or not.
I agree that the reminders need to go, but I think it will be a lot better if she makes the decision rather than being forced. I am in a similar situation at the moment, but am placing no demands. I have waited this long for him to come back, I am going to let things go at a very slow pace... Hopefully so they are strong enough to withstand any future difficulties. 

***Love Story in Progress***


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## snap

Why should she be trusted to make any decisions?


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## Doc Who

Cuckold

I feel badly for you, but gently, if I can offer one piece of advice is that too much preoccupation on R will cause you to fail - miserably. No disrespect, because I know you love your wife. But you are clinging to her. No exposing to her family, not exposing to OMW, palpable fear that if you do anything substantial you will "poison the ground" will cause you to lose what you so desperately want to keep.

Consider this carefully - you have lost her to OM. She is fantasy world and now you know she wants to cling to that world more than she wants you.

You have to let go of the outcome of R or D right now and finish this affair. It will not die on its own. She is going to cling to her fantasy man and rewrite the narrative of star-crossed lovers to **** you over and over and over.

Please, for your sake and for your child's, BE STRONG. See a lawyer and separate finances. File for divorce. Expose to her family and OMW. Yes, torch the fantasy. Oh, and LOCK UP YOUR CHILD'S PASSPORT!!

It may cause your wife to forever hate you. But she hates you now. She has chosen another over you. What the hell do you have to lose? Because the advice of "just wait her out" is going to solve NOTHING but make you seem less worthy of being a husband and more worthy of ****ting on.

Strength to you. You will need it.


----------



## daggeredheart

oneMOreguy said:


> .....it doesn't matter if she never sees him again in person or not....unless she makes her best effort to purge him from her thoughts by removing all reminders, she is just not going to be very effective at rebuilding her marriage with you......I left too many reminders of my inappropriate friend around, and just finally woke up and realized that it all had to go before I could completely rebuild my life....good luck




*can you share how you were able to get rid of the reminders in your brain?????? MY WS seems to be hanging onto a few (he doesn't tell me but I can see it in his eyes sometimes).......


----------



## noelle

snap said:


> Why should she be trusted to make any decisions?


Caution: My response may anger you. Sorry in advance.

Okay. So here we are wanting reconciliation with our sweet wonderful spouses who have made a terrible mistake, some have been in this fog for years some made a "one time" offense. Either one has still managed to rip out our hearts and cause a pain that is straight to our core. All of that aside we still love them!! STILL!! 
Coming home after you have torn apart a family is a difficult process. Although they are the ones who have done all the damage and your emotions tell you that they should suffer and "sleep in the bed you made" if we try and make their returns difficult, guess what! They will PROBABLY leave again. There is a tremendous amount of shame and guilt that goes along with coming home.
I almost feel like they are experiencing a little bit of what we felt when they left. Whether you like it or not, they were in a relationship with another person. There were feelings involved and attachments were made. It wasn't right, but it happened. They have already made the decision to come back which is an admittance that they were wrong. If you treat them as though they are not allowed to be trusted, eventually they will start thinking "No matter what I do ____ won't trust me anyways. I may as well still be in an affair."
Your spouse will have their own healing to do as well. I intend to show mine the compassion that he may not deserve. I want him to heal completely so that when we have problems in the future and he is faced with any other sort of temptation, we will have a firm foundation and he will know that there is nothing he is lacking. I love his soul unconditionally, not only when he is behaving the way I think he should.
It's just my take on things... my own approach.
I will add this. It takes a lot of prayer and trust in God to allow them to do things at their own pace. And it hurts like crazy.
I am not judging anyone for placing demands upon returning home. It simply is not what I feel is best for my relationship.


----------



## Jonesey

daggeredheart said:


> *can you share how you were able to get rid of the reminders in your brain?????? MY WS seems to be hanging onto a few (he doesn't tell me but I can see it in his eyes sometimes).......


Time!

And what makes reconciliation´s so unfair.The betrayed
must "Learn" to present one self as better option. 
Dont think i need to explain how unfair it is.

Some one once said.Cant remember who said it.It goes something like this._ Have one affair
and you end up ,with a new and improved spouse._
Cant begin to say how that statement.Angered me when a read it.But over time,i was forced to see that sadly it is a whole lot of truth in that statement


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## chumplady

> And what makes reconciliation´s so unfair.The betrayed
> must "Learn" to present one self as better option.
> Dont think i need to explain how unfair it is.


Yeah, I call that the Humiliating Dance of "Pick Me!" The Humiliating Dance of

I don't recommend it. 

This isn't a bidding war. Cuckold -- if she's still "deciding" -- she's eating cake. Don't tolerate that. Decide for her and show her the door.


----------



## The bishop

noelle said:


> In my opinion, I think that she needs to go through that process in her own time frame. I haven't read your entire story but if she was in an affair it is said that they grieve that OP whether you like it or not.
> I agree that the reminders need to go, but I think it will be a lot better if she makes the decision rather than being forced. I am in a similar situation at the moment, but am placing no demands. I have waited this long for him to come back, I am going to let things go at a very slow pace... Hopefully so they are strong enough to withstand any future difficulties.
> 
> ***Love Story in Progress***


Totally disagree. Do not allow her to have anymore control. This is coming from a cheater, she wants to control and continue manipulating you. Don't give her time, kick her out and file, that will wake her up. You need to take the excitement out of it all with hard consequences. Let reality hit her in the face.


----------



## snap

noelle said:


> Coming home after you have torn apart a family is a difficult process. Although they are the ones who have done all the damage and your emotions tell you that they should suffer and "sleep in the bed you made" if we try and make their returns difficult, guess what! They will PROBABLY leave again.


..or they won't. But this is not the point.

Do you want your spouse to stay with you just because you don't stir things up? Trying to not offend them with consequences of offending you? Yes I hear you about "for better or for worse" and love. But it should go both ways.



> I am not judging anyone for placing demands upon returning home. It simply is not what I feel is best for my relationship.


For many of us in R here it has nothing to do with demands. It's about giving another chance, which is not the same as swallowing it in hope it never repeats.


----------



## Cuckold

We are still together. But lots has happened. She agreed to all my conditions. Showed contrition and guilt. I made it easy for her. I truly felt she would not do it again. Somehow part of her guilt meant she actively encouraged me to have an affair. Dozens of times she would mention it. Eventually I asked her to stop saying it. But then later it happened. I had an affair about 2 years ago. Short loveless sex with a woman 15 years younger. Turns out she was crazy. Told my wife about it before she found out by herself. Lasted a month or so. Her response is very different to mine. Now i'm the one who ruined the marriage. Now I'm the one who can't be trusted. So now we battle and compare each others sins. On every level I feel her betrayal was worse. Much longer, real love, so much lying, stopped only when caught. Mine was short, sexual, no love and a quick full confession. I don't want to hold the moral high ground. But she can't get over it. She mentions it all the time. Sometimes out of the blue when we are good. When she mentions her, I think of him. And we fight.

Not sure why I'm here again after all these years. With my first visit came support, advice, empathy. I know how this crowd feels about cheaters. I know my rationalizations are useless here. My moral high ground scoffed at. The teacher in kindergarten said it didn't matter that Johnny hit me first. Two dirty cheaters deserve each other. 

She says I can't love her. If I had wanted to leave she gave me the perfect opportunity on a plate. My friends and family would have understood. It would have been easy. Rode off on my high horse.

At times, this year has seen us at our best since even before all this started. I said I loved her more this past year than the past 10. Not for guilt. I'm feeling it again. I 'm not one to just say the words. But the more I say it, the more I feel it. Like a self fulfilling prophecy.

She can start a fight in the afternoon and want to kiss and makeup after dinner. I stew for days.

I think we need help. But I don't want to dig up those 22,000 text messages. I don't want reminding how much she loved this guy. 
She never once asked if I loved this woman. All she cared about was the sex. I don't care about her sex, just the love she had for him.
Two very different affairs and two very different reactions.

This is my therapy. Your words / advice / admonishments are welcome but honestly it's my writing here that helped me most last time.


----------



## MattMatt

Cuckold said:


> We are still together. But lots has happened. She agreed to all my conditions. Showed contrition and guilt. I made it easy for her. I truly felt she would not do it again. Somehow part of her guilt meant she actively encouraged me to have an affair. Dozens of times she would mention it. Eventually I asked her to stop saying it. But then later it happened. I had an affair about 2 years ago. Short loveless sex with a woman 15 years younger. Turns out she was crazy. Told my wife about it before she found out by herself. Lasted a month or so. Her response is very different to mine. Now i'm the one who ruined the marriage. Now I'm the one who can't be trusted. So now we battle and compare each others sins. On every level I feel her betrayal was worse. Much longer, real love, so much lying, stopped only when caught. Mine was short, sexual, no love and a quick full confession. I don't want to hold the moral high ground. But she can't get over it. She mentions it all the time. Sometimes out of the blue when we are good. When she mentions her, I think of him. And we fight.
> 
> Not sure why I'm here again after all these years. With my first visit came support, advice, empathy. I know how this crowd feels about cheaters. I know my rationalizations are useless here. My moral high ground scoffed at. The teacher in kindergarten said it didn't matter that Johnny hit me first. Two dirty cheaters deserve each other.
> 
> She says I can't love her. If I had wanted to leave she gave me the perfect opportunity on a plate. My friends and family would have understood. It would have been easy. Rode off on my high horse.
> 
> At times, this year has seen us at our best since even before all this started. I said I loved her more this past year than the past 10. Not for guilt. I'm feeling it again. I 'm not one to just say the words. But the more I say it, the more I feel it. Like a self fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> She can start a fight in the afternoon and want to kiss and makeup after dinner. I stew for days.
> 
> I think we need help. But I don't want to dig up those 22,000 text messages. I don't want reminding how much she loved this guy.
> She never once asked if I loved this woman. All she cared about was the sex. I don't care about her sex, just the love she had for him.
> Two very different affairs and two very different reactions.
> 
> This is my therapy. Your words / advice / admonishments are welcome but honestly it's my writing here that helped me most last time.


Oh, dear. It's good to see you again, @Cuckold, well, not under these circumstances, but you know what I mean! 

OK, so you did what I did, she cheated on you, you redressed the balance. But in my case my wife accepted it as a consequence of her affair, but your wife not so much?

Maybe she holds you to a higher standard of behaviour than she holds herself? Which is unfair.

Couple's counselling? Would that help?


----------



## barbados

OP
The fact that she kept egging you on to have a revenge A tells me she and you were in a false R this whole time.

She just needed any excuse to justify her cheating and try to get back the moral high ground in her mind.

Cheaters are often like that. 

Your best plan is to D this woman, and move on to a better life. You have already wasted the last 4 years with her, don't waste anymore.


----------



## farsidejunky

Welcome back. Your thread was before my time, so I perused it this morning.

She is hurt, and rightfully so. You got your pound of flesh. Digging up her 22,000 messages from FB? Stop trying to "win", and focus on being remorseful. That will require empathy from you, of which you seem to possess little. 

Yes, her affair could be classified as "worse". However, seeking that "high ground" may net you one meter of a 100 meter hill. Stop being a d!ck.

Notice how I have not mentioned much about her? You need to work on you, not justify your affair through hers.

It sounds like your marriage does not have much of a connection. Do you actually love who your wife is, or the idea of her?


----------



## JohnA

Why does she fight? Seems like a foolish question but it is not. Is she fighting out of a sense of insecurity? That the fight is her way of testing your commitment? That would explain the fight at lunch the kiss at night routine. 

You do need a mentor for your marriage.


----------



## 5Creed

Neither of you really dealt with the problems left over from her affair. Here you both are today; a few years later but the issues still remain. I feel it would only be beneficial to get yourself in counseling and go from there.


----------



## GusPolinski

Cuckold said:


> We are still together. But lots has happened. She agreed to all my conditions. Showed contrition and guilt. I made it easy for her. I truly felt she would not do it again. Somehow part of her guilt meant she actively encouraged me to have an affair. Dozens of times she would mention it. Eventually I asked her to stop saying it. But then later it happened. I had an affair about 2 years ago. Short loveless sex with a woman 15 years younger. Turns out she was crazy. Told my wife about it before she found out by herself. Lasted a month or so. Her response is very different to mine. Now i'm the one who ruined the marriage. Now I'm the one who can't be trusted. So now we battle and compare each others sins. On every level I feel her betrayal was worse. Much longer, real love, so much lying, stopped only when caught. Mine was short, sexual, no love and a quick full confession. I don't want to hold the moral high ground. But she can't get over it. She mentions it all the time. Sometimes out of the blue when we are good. When she mentions her, I think of him. And we fight.
> 
> Not sure why I'm here again after all these years. With my first visit came support, advice, empathy. I know how this crowd feels about cheaters. I know my rationalizations are useless here. My moral high ground scoffed at. The teacher in kindergarten said it didn't matter that Johnny hit me first. Two dirty cheaters deserve each other.
> 
> She says I can't love her. If I had wanted to leave she gave me the perfect opportunity on a plate. My friends and family would have understood. It would have been easy. Rode off on my high horse.
> 
> At times, this year has seen us at our best since even before all this started. I said I loved her more this past year than the past 10. Not for guilt. I'm feeling it again. I 'm not one to just say the words. But the more I say it, the more I feel it. Like a self fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> She can start a fight in the afternoon and want to kiss and makeup after dinner. I stew for days.
> 
> I think we need help. But I don't want to dig up those 22,000 text messages. I don't want reminding how much she loved this guy.
> She never once asked if I loved this woman. All she cared about was the sex. I don't care about her sex, just the love she had for him.
> Two very different affairs and two very different reactions.
> 
> This is my therapy. Your words / advice / admonishments are welcome but honestly it's my writing here that helped me most last time.


Well, the good news is that you can still file for divorce.

If you need motivation, go back and read your first post in this thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

I honestly don't even care that you cheated...your wife's infidelity made me sick. My advice is to end this farce of a marriage, it isn't worth the paper its printed on. Divorce and move onto some happiness.


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## CH

barbados said:


> OP
> The fact that she kept egging you on to have a revenge A tells me she and you were in a false R this whole time.
> 
> She just needed any excuse to justify her cheating and try to get back the moral high ground in her mind.
> 
> Cheaters are often like that.
> 
> Your best plan is to D this woman, and move on to a better life. You have already wasted the last 4 years with her, don't waste anymore.


This, she's been pushing you to get the deed done so she can turn the tables and play the victim...


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## MJJEAN

Get a really good counselor or a really good lawyer.


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## MattMatt

MJJEAN said:


> Get a really good counselor or a really good lawyer.


No reason why both shouldn't happen?


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## MattMatt

CH said:


> This, she's been pushing you to get the deed done so she can turn the tables and play the victim...


Either that or she thought: "Well, if I give his turn we'll both be equal and we can start on a level playing field."

But then came the realisation of how much being cheated by your spouse actually, really hurts.

And she cannot cope with the feelings of being cheated on.

Counselling to explore the issues and see if that is the case.

Or if she wanted you to both be wallowing in the slime and mud, time for big decisions to be made.









This was the only SFW mud wrestling gif I could find.


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## BobSimmons

Lemme guess, how it will go..I love her, I want to work it out, another 30 pages going around in circles.


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## MJJEAN

MattMatt said:


> No reason why both shouldn't happen?


Usually, $$$. If one can't afford the counselor and the lawyer, one must prioritize. Personally, I'd pay the lawyer.


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## BetrayedDad

Cuckold said:


> It would have been easy. Rode off on my high horse.


Moral of the story folks. Ride off into the sunset on your high horse. 

Don't waste years trying to R with a remorseless cheater.

You lowered yourself to her level. Now you're both covered in mud.


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## sokillme

You should have left when you got a chance. Now I hope you stay together to keep you both away from other unsuspecting suckers.

Actually though reading your posts I think your biggest problem is you are not assertive in your life. Again and again wishy-washy men always get cheated on. The fact that you would take someone back who did this to you shows the reason they would do it to you in the first place (not saying it's your fault, but saying she picked you because she knew she could do it and you would stay). Instead of just moving on you passive aggressively had an affair. I bet she didn't think you would do this. At this point stop worrying about your marriage and fix yourself first. Learn to take agency in your own life, stop living passively.


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## TX-SC

This is an interesting turn of events. Usually it seems that men are more caught up in the physical aspect (sex) and women are more concerned over love. This is a generalization, but it seems to be common. Really, the level of betrayal is bad on both parts. She quit because you caught her, and you quit because your lover was crazy. There is no right way to look at it. 

I think the two of you need to see a counselor and work through this COMPLETELY and don't half-ass it this time.


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## harrybrown

have you looked up affair recovery.com? 

You can find them online. reach out and see if they can help.

they have helped others.

so has she stopped all contact with the OM? if she is still contacting him, I would think it would be time for D.


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