# Well, legislate morality. Here we go!



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

What say you?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-to-outlaw-sex-outside-marriage-idUSKBN1W32BV


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Goodbye Indonesia.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Morality is legislated in every country. They've just chosen to legislate immoral behavior that enjoys more popularity.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

StillSearching said:


> What say you?
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-to-outlaw-sex-outside-marriage-idUSKBN1W32BV


“Indonesia is the world’s most populous Muslim majority country and ... has seen a recent trend towards deeper religious piety and conservative Islamic activism.”

Nothing more to say. That sums it up nicely.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

BioFury said:


> Morality is legislated in every country. They've just chosen to legislate immoral behavior that enjoys more popularity.


Nearly every law is a legislation of morality, including the social safety net.

But I don’t think premarital sex is immoral.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

CraigBesuden said:


> Nearly every law is a legislation of morality, including the social safety net.
> 
> But I don’t think premarital sex is immoral.


Morality is a higher principle, removed from an individual perspective. Which is why we prosecute murderers, regardless of whether they find their behavior to be immoral. Because personal opinion isn't relevant. The governments opinion doesn't dictate what is and isn't moral either, as can be demonstrated by this very thread, and people's impending reactions to it.

We can thus extrapolate that morality is defined by something higher than people, and higher than government. Which leaves God. And according to God, premarital sex is immoral.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

BioFury said:


> Morality is a higher principle, removed from an individual perspective. Which is why we prosecute murderers, regardless of whether they find their behavior to be immoral. Because personal opinion isn't relevant. The governments opinion doesn't dictate what is and isn't moral either, as can be demonstrated by this very thread, and people's impending reactions to it.
> 
> We can thus extrapolate that morality is defined by something higher than people, and higher than government. Which leaves God. And according to God, premarital sex is immoral.


That's silly. That logic would indicate atheists would be incapable of morality.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> That's silly. That logic would indicate atheists would be incapable of morality.


Indeed. They abide by a personal code that they themselves created. Personal codes or standards, is not morality - as previously demonstrated.

ETA: Though a distinction should be made. Atheists are of course capable of moral behavior, just as felons are capable of abiding by traffic laws. But that doesn't mean the former is moral, or the latter is law abiding.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

BioFury said:


> Indeed. They abide by a personal code that they themselves created. Personal codes or standards, is not morality - as previously demonstrated.
> 
> ETA: Though a distinction should be made. Atheists are of course capable of moral behavior, just as felons are capable of abiding by traffic laws. But that doesn't mean the former is moral, or the latter is law abiding.


Thanks for the distinction. I feel much better knowing that I am capable of moral behavior.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

BioFury said:


> Indeed. They abide by a personal code that they themselves created. Personal codes or standards, is not morality - as previously demonstrated.
> 
> ETA: Though a distinction should be made. Atheists are of course capable of moral behavior, just as felons are capable of abiding by traffic laws. But that doesn't mean the former is moral, or the latter is law abiding.


Says the guy who previously advocated for executing(!) a person that refused to have sex with their spouse. Or am I remembering that incorrectly?


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> Says the guy who previously advocated for executing(!) a person that refused to have sex with their spouse. Or am I remembering that incorrectly?


Yeeeeah I'd have to say you're misremembering. It was cheating I believe. 

Heads off for cheating 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Atheists, all materialists for that matter, have a problem with justification.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Indonesia's laws are that a marriage is only valid if it's performed by some religious cleric. After that the couple can register their marriage with the state.

The laws/rules on one's religion apply. Islam allows polygamy. Short term marriage is also legal. In many Muslims societies short term marriages are used to get around laws like this. 


Temporary marriages with Indonesian women on rise
﻿ 
A large number of Saudis are engaging in temporary marriages with Indonesian women with the intention of divorcing them

https://www.arabnews.com/node/323345


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Islam allows polygamy. Short term marriage is also legal. In many Muslims societies short term marriages are used to get around laws like this.


My uncle left the service after the first Gulf War and spent a few years living and working in Saudi as a contractor. He told me about temp marriages and I got curious, so I looked it up. According to my foggy memory of research I did back when dinosaurs roamed the suburbs, this is a very, very, old way for Muslims to get around prohibitions against pre-marital sex and/or prostitution. Temporarily marry, boink like bunnies, sever the temp marriage, no harm, no foul.

For example, if I were a Muslim man from Saudi and I wanted some "female companionship", I'd pay a "dowry", get married, have sex, and end the temporary marriage.

In places where this is an old and common practice, everyone understands what's going on. Apparently, the Indonesians haven't gotten the memo and some were unknowingly selling their female relatives into what is basically prostitution.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BioFury said:


> Morality is a higher principle, removed from an individual perspective. Which is why we prosecute murderers, regardless of whether they find their behavior to be immoral. Because personal opinion isn't relevant. The governments opinion doesn't dictate what is and isn't moral either, as can be demonstrated by this very thread, and people's impending reactions to it.
> 
> We can thus extrapolate that morality is defined by something higher than people, and higher than government. Which leaves God. And according to God, premarital sex is immoral.


God says that any sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is wrong. The world says that 'anything goes'. 

Depends on whether we are following Him or not. I have learnt over 40 years that all His advise and guidance is very wise and always for our ultimate good. :smile2:


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> That's silly. That logic would indicate *atheists* would be incapable of morality.


They don't exist.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> What say you?


To me this reads like, "Parents get laws to have more control over their lineage"

As in my son is shacked up with some girl I do not approve of and I want that her locked up and taken away from him! Or as a parent I want to scare my daughter into not playing around and focus on getting married and creating a family. 

I say this because the article said that the nature of the offense has to be reported and "approved" by the parents before any punishments are enforced.


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