# DDay 2 via False R...



## skltn (Apr 16, 2013)

I'd like to start off by saying I have read through a number of posts in this section including the posts for newbies. WOW do I wish I would have found this information before the first confrontation! The only positive I can find from the fact that I did not, is that my failure at handling the first confrontation (think... her slightly "blameshifting" > both of us "rug sweeping" > me "hysterical bonding" > her "going underground" *sigh*) has completely shown me what I need to do, with the firmness and confidence necessary to obtain results, whatever they might be in the end.

Although I have a very good concept of what needs to be done in general, my main reason for finally deciding to post is to try and get some guidance on the details of my particular situation.

1. Confront before or after full blown exposure? Won't my exposure template be different depending on her response to me confronting her?

2. Should she quit her job? This one I am really struggling with. The A did start in the workplace. They currently work in different buildings which are a few miles apart. However, they have access to work IM which gives them an easy and totally private means of communication. And they have the potential to cross paths quite a bit (at the workplace gym, etc) Also, I am currently a SAHD and attending classes in the evenings. I work on the weekends, but only end up contributing a small percentage of our total income. She has decent pay and extremely good benefits with her current job. I know if I want things to be different this time around, this has to be a consideration.. I'm just saying that if it did go down it would be epic if she couldn't find another job right away... in terms of paying our bills and meeting our financial responsibilities and providing for our 2 children.

3. Work exposure? Here again this brings up the possiblility of my wife's job/income being at risk. Also, I think this could possibly effect OM's current security clearance and possibly his job. I don't know for sure though. (Now, I couldn't care less about OM, but his wife and 2 kids are making it difficult for me to ignore)

4. At what point in the process do I expose to OMW? Should I contact her before anything and provide information/evidence (assuming she wants it) and tell her my plan of full exposure? Explain to her that at this point it's not only an A but also False R which proves it's an addiction and both of them are completely lost in the "fog" which is why this is necessary. My only concern about trying to contact OMW first is that she might spill the beans before I'm ready and/or mess up my plan. I'm thinking tsunami here... I want total surprise.. no momentum lost!

5. Also, don't give up my info gathering sources, correct? Like, state my proof but not how I know? (because I know she'll ask how I know.. she did the first time.. and I was stupid giving her step by step account of how I found out, therefore giving her all knowledge necessary on how to go underground) I need these to make sure if she wants this marriage to continue she keeps true to total NC, etc.?

Any advice or help would just be awesome at this point. It's been 2.5 months since DDay 1 + confrontation and about a week since DDay 2 (but no confrontation yet... just total evidence gathering mode at this point.. VAR, keylogger, phone/txt records, emails saved, etc, from the time between DDay 1 + original confrontation to now). Of course she convinced me to not tell anyone for fear our friends and family might view me as "weak" for trying to work things out with her.. or that they might get in between us and keep us from a true R.. which she has mananged to FU all on her own... *sigh* Of course she deemed it OK (because of all the stress she was experiencing) to tell a female best friend of hers.. but suggested I think twice about telling any of my friends/family. Just wanting this torture to end.. trying to get my plan lined up soon.

I might be leaving some things out. I want to be clear that I love my wife more than anyone in the world but I know now that being the nice guy and letting her work this out on her terms is absolutely 100% impossible. This addiction needs to be broken!!! If there's any more information you all would find useful, just let me know. I'm a bit of a mess right now, trying to get a plan together. Hell, it's almost 4am I need some rest...


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

skltn said:


> I'd like to start off by saying I have read through a number of posts in this section including the posts for newbies. WOW do I wish I would have found this information before the first confrontation! The only positive I can find from the fact that I did not, is that my failure at handling the first confrontation (think... her slightly "blameshifting" > both of us "rug sweeping" > me "hysterical bonding" > her "going underground" *sigh*) has completely shown me what I need to do, with the firmness and confidence necessary to obtain results, whatever they might be in the end.
> 
> Although I have a very good concept of what needs to be done in general, my main reason for finally deciding to post is to try and get some guidance on the details of my particular situation.
> 
> ...


1. Expose to other man's wife.

2. Expose to your and your wife's close family and closest friends, anyone who can influence your wife to end the affair. Make sure they know that you gave her a chance to end the affair and instead she just went to greater lengths to hide it.

3. Confront your wife. Give her your conditions - cease all contact, handwritten no contact letter, gives up all passwords and access to communication devices, and quits job.

4. If wife doesn't quit job, exposure at work may be necessary. If she does quit, expose after the fact to further blow up other man's life. When he's worried about his own life, he's not thinking about your wife. It also sends a signal to him: "Stop messing with me and mine or you will suffer more pain."

5. After you expose to other man's wife and you expose to other man's job, call him up and let him know that if he doesn't back off you will make it your business to ruin him in any LEGAL way that you can. Then hang up.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

skltn said:


> 1. Confront before or after full blown exposure? Won't my exposure template be different depending on her response to me confronting her?


I am a little confused, because you say you talked about this before, yet you only have one posting to your name. So I can't check what is the history here.

But in general, how much you expose and to whom depends on what you want out of this. Full reconciliation? Then keep in mind she still has to see your friends and family sometimes. If you are planning on divorce, then it matters little. HOWEVER, if you expose everything to her workplace and she loses her job, that would affect alimony/child support after the divorce. You could end up paying a lot more to support her if she doesn't have a job (or you could lose out on her paying you alimony).

I know that many people on TAM think nothing but expose/expose/expose, and will advise you to expose everything to everyone in your life, from your small children to your grandparents, to the workplace, to everyone in your church!! Some of them feel this way because they are still hurting from betrayals themselves. But I feel marriage is between the two people in the marriage, not the rest of the world. I do think you should expose to the OMW, because this affects her too, and she deserves to know what is going on.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Exposure is the best way to kill an affair dead.
Affairs breed in the darkness and love the secrecy and thrill of it all.
Shed some light on them and the sunlight burns a gaping hole in their little fantasy world.

Confront your wife
Expose to OMW. Don't let your wife talk you out of it.
Tell yours and hers parents.

Then see where it goes from there.
My Hs A was exposed at work by exOWs H. It had the desired effect. It ended the affair within 3
Weeks of exposure. But they work in a small place with only 15 employees. They both still work there.
But that's another story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Theseus said:


> I am a little confused, because you say you talked about this before, yet you only have one posting to your name. So I can't check what is the history here.
> 
> But in general, how much you expose and to whom depends on what you want out of this. Full reconciliation? Then keep in mind she still has to see your friends and family sometimes. If you are planning on divorce, then it matters little. HOWEVER, if you expose everything to her workplace and she loses her job, that would affect alimony/child support after the divorce. You could end up paying a lot more to support her if she doesn't have a job (or you could lose out on her paying you alimony).
> 
> I know that many people on TAM think nothing but expose/expose/expose, and will advise you to expose everything to everyone in your life, from your small children to your grandparents, to the workplace, to everyone in your church!! Some of them feel this way because they are still hurting from betrayals themselves. But I feel marriage is between the two people in the marriage, not the rest of the world. I do think you should expose to the OMW, because this affects her too, and she deserves to know what is going on.


He already tried your way. It didn't work. Not for this woman and this man (maybe it will work for others, but it obviously didn't work HERE)

So he should try and gut them at this point. Will it wreck his marriage? Well...it certainly SEEMS wrecked...and it wasn't the exposure that did it. It was a remorseless woman continuing to chase after another man.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I know what you want, OP. I don't think you can get there from here.

On the one hand, you want to hurt her. I can't blame you. I won't blame you.

Second, you want a pound of flesh from the OM. Again...I am all over that.

Third, you want to keep your cushy lifestyle.

Fourth, you want your wife back to what you had before (sorry, that's done...but you can have her back)

Pick two. All four is almost impossible.

My advice? File for divorce. Serve her at work.

This sets HER fiscal responsibilty now. It means that you are not countanancing her current relationship. It means that she isn't desrirable to you anymore.

Now, if there is an R, SHE needs to figure it out. SHE owes you money. SHE needs to find that other job or she'll lose you. And the threat of exposure is always in the back of her mind.

Plus you don't need to reveal anything.

Don't move out. GOD, don't move out. You stay and take care of the kid. You document your time. You also start to gather money and figure out another job. Since it's after the filing, it's irrelevant to the agreement. Men get put on the hook fisacally like this all the time. Turnabout is fair play.

Obviously you do a hard 180 and carry a VAR after checking in with the local recording laws.

Good luck


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

skltn: As somebody who has been in the same situation as you, I would recommend that you take some time to really think about what YOU want. Eg - I too have two kids and tried false R because I thought I loved my stbxw and for the kids. But eventually realized that I loved the memory of my stbxw - I don't really like the reality. It took months to realize this. Also - you cannot fix a broken spouse - they have to fix themselves. 

Take some time to really think about what you want in life. Your wife (like my stbxw) is a serial liar and a cheat. She may have changed radically from the woman you married and loved. It could be a mental problem (MLC, hormones, etc) - but only she can fix herself.

IF you decide that you want to eventually reconcile - then you need to break her out of the cycle of lying/hiding her affair. That means exposure. The risk is - the exposure will drive a wedge between you and your stbxw because her first reaction will be outrage, humiliation, and blaming you for upsetting her fantasy world (where she has you and the OM). But this is just part of the process and eventually (IF she still has a part of her that loves you) she will realize that she was in a selfish affair fog. If she doesn't realize this, then the marriage is over. 

If you decide that you want to move on - then start the separation process. Since you're a SAHD, get her to move out and support you while she pursues her lifestyle. Meanwhile - you will need to work on yourself - get ready for life as a single parent (I'm guessing, if you're like me - you have been doing the bulk of the parenting while your wife fooled around anyhow) - start looking for work because she won't be supporting you forever.

True R will take a lot of time and a lot of effort from BOTH of you, but particularly your wife. If she doesn't buy into R, then you have to face the facts that your marriage is over. Again - you need to take the proper amount of time to assess this - You're still pretty fresh from DDay1 and DDay2 - so don't beat yourself up over being indecisive. But face the reality that it is a long, uphill battle to save your marriage and you cannot do it alone.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You tried on DDay 1 to let her stop cheating without suffering consequences. She bargained with you to keep it silent.

Now you've seen the results of that bargain. The keeping it silent enabled them to continue. You also have seen that she bargained falsely, she just did what she had to , to keep you silent and to protect the affair.

As for work, you know that she cannot be trusted to keep her word.

It's time to break the silence.

In this order:

1. Contact the OMW and notify her.
2. Contact hr and notify them about both of them. Yes, this will cause you problems, BUT it may save your marriage. Do it via letter.
3. Notify friends and family.

Do this all at once, and then wait until your wife calms down and isn't acting out in anger that you've hurt her relationship with the OM.

Remember her priorities right now in order are:
1. The affair
2. The OM
3. Herself

Nothing else matters.

Hopefully the shock of your exposure will bring her back to reality.

And never ever reveal your sources or methods of intelligence gathering,


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You tried on DDay 1 to let her stop cheating without suffering consequences. She bargained with you to keep it silent.
> 
> Now you've seen the results of that bargain. The keeping it silent enabled them to continue. You also have seen that she bargained falsely, she just did what she had to , to keep you silent and to protect the affair.
> 
> ...



This assumes that he wants to continue the marriage. Now, right now, he says he does.

So...OP...if I handed you a check right now that would allow you to continue your lifestyle, you knew you would keep your kid and you wouldnt' suffer anything except the mom being missing, would you keep her or dump her?

Take the money out of the equation. The kid will always be there, but assume you could keep her. Would you stay?

I think more people need to look at the situation bereft of outside concerns to know their hearts. Because while outside considerations are real, you will personally feel cheated that a paycheck, a child, or family feelings forced you into something you didn't want to do.

Once you acknowledge what you WANT to do, you can make a choice. Now, if absent these considerations you decided to divorce, but with them you wouldn't, what you need to do is settle your mind and be willing to come to terms with necessity in a mentally healthy way.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You have plenty of info, on what to do, from those who have posted above me

I would re-iterate one thing, that a poster above me has stated, and it depends on what you want out of all of this

If you intend to R, and no matter what, live in the misery that the R, may provide you---then she quits her job----if you intend to D---no matter what---then she keeps her job

You gotta decide where you are going with this----If you think you have a mge, to save, you DON'T

Your wife has already gutted your mge, and then lied to destroy it even further, by keeping her A---going---that tells you she doesn't give a sh*t about you, your kids, your family, or your mge---you need to understand that before you do anything

You also need to understand---you are a SAHD---good bad or indifferent---that is what you are---and unfortunately----your wife has absolutely NO RESPECT FOR YOU----she compares her lover to you---and you LOSE-----he is a man out there doing things, making a good salary, and showing himself off----you sit home all day with the kids----its a brutal truth, but it has to be factored in to this overall total mess----ALSO---I promise you your so called wife's lover---has/is/does let her know each and everyday---what a nothing you are----I AM NOT SAYING THIS TO HURT YOU---I AM SAYING THIS SO YOU UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING YOU ARE DEALING WITH

Lastly----this woman, who you claim to love---she ain't that woman you married long ago---this woman---as I said above could care less about you---that woman, the woman you loved---she passed away, a long time ago---in her place---you now have a manipulating, lying, deceiving, cheating monster---who is not a wife to you---she is now a mistress to her lover----and as a mother, she is a horrible role model

These are the brutal but true facts you have to deal with---so think long and hard where you wanna go with all of this---no matter what, nothing is gonna be easy


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Perhaps a bit strong, jnj.

I'm sure she has some feelings for her husband and kids. But it's like one of those multilayered c*cktails, she has a layer of kids, a layer of hubby, a layer of OM.










Guess which one is largest? Probably the kids but it could be the OM. It certainly isn't you.

So there is SOMETHING to build on...if you want it.

IF you want to stay here, she needs to drain him out of her life totally.

But she's lied twice dude...


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I will re-iterate a bit. If you are done and heading for divorce. Just file. Expose to the people closest to you who you feel would need to know and don't destroy her work. I would, of course, teel the OM wife.

If you rae fighting and wanting to stay with this woman, then the only way to really make it happen is to go nuclear. Expose everywhere, she neds to quit her job and move on or the OM does.....

Good luck. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

At minimum.
Tell his wife first.
Tell your family and friends.
Tell her family and friends.
Start doing the 180.

Take your time deciding what to do from there.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Get an apartment, schedule the power, cable and water to be turned off on her next girls night out, and when that happens grap you stuff and leave.

When she gets home a 5am or late Sunday morning won't it be a perfect statement to your old lady, in showing her you will no longer tolorate her crap.

There is a good chance though, that when she does talk to you after, she will say " I would have stayed with you but you moved out and turned everything off" see the irony?

Just like with exposure " I would have stayed with you but you made my affair inconvienent and uncomfortable" 

See this fog these wayward are in will always get turned around.......It will even get to a point were she will even say " I would have stayed married to you but you divorced me"

My point here is throw logic out the window with regards to your old lady and do what you have to in making this affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible.

If she still wants you she will deal with the consequences you show her...if she is just using you she will bail. And sometimes bailing is not so bad when they can't be honest and commited.


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## skltn (Apr 16, 2013)

To be clear I never posted about dday 1 because I wasn't aware of this site at that time. On dday 1 I confronted her a few hours after getting a glimpse of, and then confirming, emails sent between them. 

After dday 1 she seemed totally remorseful. Saying that she felt she went outside our marriage to get what she wasn't receiving from me. And she was very stressed out and an emotional mess at the inception of the A. But she said she knew it was totally wrong, she felt like I was meeting more of her needs the past few months and she wanted nothing more than to stop this and totally focus on me, our marriage and our family. According to her, she had changed her view a lot about what marriage was and was not, and she was ready and willing for what it was going to take to reconcile. 

At the time since I knew nothing of the concepts on this site, I didn't make her do any official NC letter. But I did tell her that she should never talk to him again and that if he tried to contact her via IM, txt or email that she should tell me and even forward them to me.

The next day he did contact her via IM. She said that she never wanted him to talk to her again. He said if that's what you want. She said "it is what I want." She forwarded this all to me.

Over the next few days I told her I was going to be looking over all the emails because I needed to get a scope of how far the cheating had gone. Mainly I wanted to see if it had involved my children at all or whether they had been exposed to OM. After a few days she deleted all the emails telling me I needed to stop focusing on them. That what was said in those emails was not her and it wasn't going to help us trying to move forward. I felt a little odd about this but wanting to ease the pain (rug sweep anyone?) I decided it was probably an good idea.

Also, I need to be clear that since finding out for the 2nd time, I only have proof of an EA continuing and not the EA/PA that had gone on for almost 3 yrs prior. Mostly them having conversations the way good friends would have except for "Love you" and "I miss you" at then end.

After finding out the first time, she was pretty open about everything. Telling me that he was basically one of her best friends and that she was pretty sure she had been his best friend for several years now. But of course she need it needed to stop. She wanted to to stop. She was ready to focus on us!

Things have gotten a lot better between us. We even took a weekend trip away without the children and have had a couple date nights. We've had some of the best conversations about marriage, family and relationships then at any time prior in our marriage. And I was actually (as silly as it sounds now) really impressed with how remorseful she was and how it seemed like the last couple months I have become the complete focus of her life. Always communicating with me, never shutting me out, doing nice things for me. Also, we've had some of the most amazing sex in the last couple months also.

I know some here may think that I'm just being played by an evil, selfish, good for nothing woman and as I'm saying this I know it sounds like I'm willing to just let myself be taken advantage of... but I just cannot believe it.

Other than the A, she has been a serious inspiration to me. Helping me improve many aspects of my life. And she is really respected by her friends, family and peers for always being the kind of person who will help anyone and always seems to do the right thing even when others don't.

This brings me to my final point.

I really feel like this is an addiction for her. I've dealt with some addiction in my past (nothing too major) and have extensive experience with it via family members ranging from all different types of addictions. If this really is an addiction for her.. than it is totally possible that it is something she really does not want deep down.. but that she is totally in a fog and doesn't have the strength on her own (because the consequences have been little to none, except for me finding out) to end it.

This situation is just so frustrating for me because I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to want to be apart from my wife except for this affair. And that's just making it extra hard for me.

I said that I have proof of EA continuing but there is a lot I can't confirm. Like what they've said on the phone where I can see they've had several 10-20 minute conversations a few times a week. Also, I can't confirm they aren't still meeting up right before, during, or right after the work day. I have a VAR but have not installed it yet. I feel like I know what needs to be done, just trying to find the confidence and strength to do it. Also, I know I need a set plan of action to keep me on course when I do confront her so I don't screw it all up... again.

P.S. I did find a "draft" in her email the first time around detailing all the "cons" of the affair. I don't remember all of them... some were about her problems with OM but a fair amount were about how it was hurting her, me and our family.. and undermining what she believed in. It was dated like 2 months before dday 1 and looked like it had been something she had worked on for a while. I know it may be nothing.. but I did kind of show me that she has had tons of thoughts and feelings about wanting to end it. She just never could follow through with it unfortunately.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

The only chance you have to snap her back to reality is to impose REAL consequences for her atrocious behavior. Kick her out of the house. Send her divorce papers. Tell her exactly what you need her to do if she wants to have any chance of salvaging this marriage.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She needs shock and awe to help really end it.

No more rugs weeping, no more permitting private communications and secrecy.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

skltn said:


> 1. Confront before or after full blown exposure? Won't my exposure template be different depending on her response to me confronting her?


I would allow the exposure to be the motivation for the confrontation.
Either that or confront and expose as close together as possible.



> 2. Should she quit her job?


Most definitely, especially if she's already gone underground once.
She can't be trusted with any means of communication you can't monitor.
Make it work.



> 3. Work exposure? Here again this brings up the possiblility of my wife's job/income being at risk. Also, I think this could possibly effect OM's current security clearance and possibly his job. I don't know for sure though. (Now, I couldn't care less about OM, but his wife and 2 kids are making it difficult for me to ignore)


Yes, especially since she'll be quitting that job.
The Om's family is not your responsibility.
They are his responsibility and he ****ed it up bad.



> 4. At what point in the process do I expose to OMW?


I would expose to the OMW before I confront my wife but on the same day.
The twin simultaneous assaults on her affair will have a powerful effect in destroying it.
Her OM throwing her under the bus at the same moment you're talking divorce will make her quite malleable.
In fact I'd put the whole thing off and have the confrontation be the serving of D papers to her totally out of the blue.
That same day I'd expose to the OMW.



> I want total surprise.. no momentum lost!


Then expose to the OMW right before you confront your wife.
A very hard hit she'll be reeling from.



> 5. Also, don't give up my info gathering sources, correct? Like, state my proof but not how I know? (because I know she'll ask how I know.. she did the first time.. and I was stupid giving her step by step account of how I found out, therefore giving her all knowledge necessary on how to go underground) I need these to make sure if she wants this marriage to continue she keeps true to total NC, etc.?


Never give up your sources..never ever ever.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. If the roles were reversed would she have been so accepting and forgiving as you? Her actions continue to show that she has no respect for you and no fear of consequences from you as well. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Man I feel for you. I went through it to. What you need to do is grieve. Your marriage as you know it has died. She knew this would hurt you, knew what may come, and made her choices. Accept her choices were deliberate and done with much forethought. 

So... Dresden Fire bomb. Burn the illusion she is trying to maintain all down; This marriage is not at all what she wants you and everyone else to believe, nor is she the woman she wants others to believe. Do whatever it takes internally, but you just need to accept the woman you believed in died: Now you are dealing with ghost. Greave the loss of that woman, those dreams, and that future. Burn down the stage curtain and let everyone see the reality of her and the state of the marriage she made. 

Distance from her emotionally is key; Much less pain that way. A stranger yelling at you just doesn’t cut deep or warrant a serious emotional response. That is where you need to go so you can stop the hurt inside. Grieve your loss.

Feel free to scream, yell, and rip her apart. That’s how you feel isn’t it? What is stopping you is in your head, you are still holding onto a notion that you don’t do that to people you are married to or love. Her actions do not speak of love or marriage, so you aren’t bound to them. You really shouldn’t care about hurting the feelings of someone dead to you. Just let it pour out whenever it strikes you. That is where you need to be.

And begin living YOUR LIFE. Remove her influence from it. Stop pretending it is “our life”. She made it clear that she doesn’t feel that way. Your place in her life is regulated to what you provide to her and what she has to do to get what she wants out of you. This is no longer a Hallmark moment she will try to make it where ‘true love conquers all’. She did this intentionally and with malice against you and the marriage.... 

Exposure... up to you. I wouldn’t mess with the income or her job though since you need to seriously start the divorce mentality. I would however expose to everyone she cares about like family and friends (even if the friends are co-workers). Inform the OM’s wife. 

From here on out, you need to watch your own back and take care of yourself. She is not looking out for you, so stop looking out for her. You no longer need to honor your vows.. She killed that marriage. Start to divide assets, open personal accounts, close out joint accounts. Get a lawyer. Start figuring out a parenting schedule. Do the actions of someone in the process of divorce. Talk openly to her about it and how she would propose dividing the family up. Your attitude should be that it is a done deal and now you are just negotiating fair terms.

Watch the panic set in.... I am always amazed that it comes as a shock to a wayward. They knew it could (and probably would) go down like this... but to have it actually happen doesn’t appear to be a thought they gave any serious attention to. Just another score against her for being shallow and not to quick in the head to boot....


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Get your VAR in place and do a little gathering but next week its time to expose this affair, and then confront her in that order.

Hell the exposure could even be an intervention with a handful of folks that are close to her and support the marriage.


Maybe you could even start the confrontation with "Honey we are all her to talk about your addiction"...along with " We are all her to help you build a better and stronger marriage"...

Then cap it all off by telling her how unhealthy her extra marital relationship is with OM!


But before you cap it off, listen to her axplain to everyone that she doesn't have any addiction....enless she admits to some pills you don't know about? Or if she smokes, listening explain her smoking problem.

My point is she won't have a clue why she is facing an intervention.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I say file and serve her. Ask sole custody and house.
Then hard 180.
Of course you must expose to BW. At least.


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## arked (Mar 2, 2013)

The question you must answer will be is this affair a deal breaker for you. You and only you know what you can live with. I have always believed cheaters are always cheaters. However, here at TAM you find some reconciliation stories where couples were able to stay together. I did not have an option because my WAW was never remorseful or did she care to stop her affair. I think you can judge your situation by how remorseful you WW is and will she stop her affair. It seems she is unwilling to stop her affair this is not a good sign. Has she shown any true remorse or is she just sorry she got caught. If she will not stop her affair and show true remorse then give a lot of thought to a divorce. I would point out to you her affair is not your fault.


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## skltn (Apr 16, 2013)

The affair is not a deal breaker for me on its own. She has seemed really remorseful up to this point. However tonight we had an argument that left me feeling like absolute crap. 

While I'm completing my evidence gathering and plan of attack, I'm finding it near impossible to keep my mouth shut. I started conversation off with telling her that I wish she was more open to talking about A. And I felt like she was treating me well but kind of ignoring what has happened. She told me she doesn't want to focus on the past, doesn't see how talking about OM will help anything and wants to move forward. However this is all while she is still keeping contact with him. I think she thinks they can be friends. Although the "I love you" and "I miss you" don't quite pan out. 

At some point our conversation got a bit heated and she reminded me why she had done this in the first place. She had done everything in our marriage that a person should do. I was the one that was depressed, distant, unaffectionate, unmotivated and wouldn't change despite her continual requests for me to do so. Although the last 3 yrs she completely stopped nagging me about anything. Which I now know to be a terrible sign in a marriage. 

She is correct that for the most part I have been immature and somewhat irresponsible in the past. I've escaped from reality via tv and video games when I just couldn't figure out how to change the path I was on and just wanting to give up. Not to justify any of my actions but I had some experiences in my childhood that later came to the surface in my early 20s. I'm in my late 20s now. Married when we were both 19. So she made me feel like a complete failure all over again tonight. Even though for the last 5 months I've really been stepping it up. Taking responsibility for a lot of stuff, being more self motivated and managing to start school full time while being SAHD and working over 20 hrs/wk. everything she says is true but it hurts so much because I'm trying to change and its making me feel like I don't have a leg to stand on now with this whole plan. 

P.S. sorry about bad typing, etc. doing this from my phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

And how does cheating make everything better ? She is selling you a bunch of bull**** and you are buying it. She could have separated if she had so many issues with you. It wasn't something that happened once or twice by mistake. For f*ck sake, it was an affair for 3 years. How is she trying to justify that sh*t ?? So now that you are unhappy about her affair, does it mean

Maybe she is staying with you for the kids ? Might well as discussions about open marriage. You are setting yourself for a lot of pain and your love for her is blinding you to the obvious. 

Is the OM in a relationship ? Tell us a bit about him. She still talks to him because she idealizes her relationship with him. She just had happy moments to share with him, while with you, it was daily life, bills, kids and other stuff.

Maybe a temporary separation might be good thing for both of you. You, to see how better relationship can be. And her to see is she really misses you or if she is reconciling out of guilt. You are still young. You shouldn't waste any more of your time if you don't have to.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

So, you were irresponsible and immature. So that justifies her affair in her mind but what about the OM? How the hell can she rationalize cheating with another married man and putting their entire family in jeopardy. Who the hell gives her a right to destroy another man's family.

Your "nice guy" doormat qualities were the exact reason she cheated on you. And they are the exact reason she is continuing it. Next time, she will be even more careful. She is still staying with out of some some f*cked up sense of guilt or whatever reason. She is telling you that she does not want you through her actions . What are you still waiting for ?



> She told me she doesn't want to focus on the past, doesn't see how talking about OM will help anything and wants to move forward.


Most common things cheaters try to do. It is not about her. It is about what you need. She is the one that cheated. of course she wants to put it behind her because the pain is yours not hers.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Look she's either in the marriage or she's out. She's feeing you a bunch of crap reasons on why her choosing to cheat is your fault. It isn't. If she doesn't want to be married she should divorce you.

The OM has got to go forever. No contact in anyway.thats her choosing to be in the marriage. Right now , honestly , she isn't choosing to be in the marriage and she's showing it by keeping an active relationship with your replacement.

Not only is that fence sitting, it's a direct humiliating insult leveled right at you.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

She is playing you and you are sucking it up.

Use that VAR already - why haven't you?

You have to be prepared to lose the marriage in order to save it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

If you are such a terrible H, and she "disses" you so much, to the point that she has had a lover, for a good portion of your mge---why is she still in this mge---why is she putting in the minimal amt. of work on the R

She certainly doesn't love you----for the last 3, or longer yrs, she has had a lover---so why is she still with you

You need to look at her reason for staying---is it cuz she knows the court system will rape her----money wise, and custody wise---is that why she stays?????

If you are gonna fight this thru---you have got to make her agree to, and follow the boundaries you set up----and that includes---NO rug sweeping---if you need to talk about what she has done/is still doing, every day, and for the next thousand days----THAT IS WHAT SHE DOES

I understand you are not in a strong position here, but you have to stand your ground---if she won't comply----then you know what has to be done

This woman who claims to be your wife---is a terrible role model, and mother to her kids, for that reason alone, you should D----get the kids away from her, for they will just emulate her later on in life---thinking it is OK, to be with one person, and make love to another----her morals are terrible, she definitely should not be bringing up young kids


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Oh yes, the blameshift.... Standard script. Every person has faults; just a simple fact. Your wayward is using yours to keep you in line. It is working isn’t it. You feel like a failure. Please understand a lot of that comes from your wife herself because you love and respect her. She reminds you of your faults. Note that she isn’t helping you... If she was, her leaving the marriage should make you feel what? Motivated or depressed. That need to flee and escape... What are you running from? I bet it is your home life of which she is a big part. Not complaining is not equal to being supportive.

Now add to this. Is it easier to cheat on a good person or a loser? Loser. She needs you to be a loser in her head to justify why she needs someone who “gets her” and so she can invoke ‘pity’ both from the OM and for herself. This is yet another excuse.

This is why you must distance. As long as you care what she thinks and how she see’s you, the reflection in the mirror will be heavily influenced by someone who wants you to think of yourself as a loser who deserves what she is doing. She doesn’t even have to mean about it, just constant reminders and “looks”. You really want to get the point where you can take her out of the equation and judge yourself.... you can’t do that yet because you still care.

Use that anger and frustration. Learn her method and flip that table around. Who is the real loser here? She’s an adulterer, a liar, a manipulator and with intent doing things she knows without a doubt will tear you apart. She’s been through this once.... as have you. Do not attempt to repeat how you resolved this last time; It did not work. Learn from it and go in very nasty and hard. You are now a wounded animal; Start acting like it.


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## skltn (Apr 16, 2013)

Thank you guys so much for your responses. I haven't told a single person close to me about this and it really helps to get feedback here from you all.

I got the VAR set up last night in her car. So we'll see what comes of that.

I'm still facing a few hurdles in terms of busting this wide open:

1. I don't really know how to contact OM family or friends. We don't have any mutual friends on Facebook so I think if I message anyone on his friends list the message will just go to "other" tab in messages and will most likely be missed or never seen by that person. I don't really know this for sure.. if anyone can confirm this I'd appreciate it.

2. I don't have a number/email for OMW but I do know where she works so I guess I'll have to contact her there somehow.

3. I know which building and suite OM works in.. but I have no idea how to find out who his supervisor is. And if I do contact his supervisor, is this person even going to care or say/do anything?

4. I've read in other posts where people suggest throwing out clothes or at a minimum OM "favorites" which I know there were some based on pictures I seen in emails on dday 1. All those emails have since been deleted by her so I really have no way of knowing specifics.

5. Also, I know that a good percentage of the hooking up took place in my wife's vehicle. I would be lying if I said I didn't think about that almost every time I get in it. What would you guys do about that? We honestly are in a pretty financially tight spot right now with me being in school. Ironically enough, I even suggested selling it for something cheaper before I found out about A in the first place.

6. OM lives about 5 minutes from our house which kind of drives me nuts. If it wasn't for the fact that most of our friends, majority of her family, etc weren't her, I would be extremely tempted to move away. Most likely to a different state where we both grew up, have a few friends, and some family on both sides. This would be totally hardcore though and would really effect my two small children... I just don't know how I feel about it.

7. I wish I could talk to OMW and get her on the same page with me as far as exposure is concerned. According to my wife, she's crazy and could possibly do something completely unpredictable, which I know is probably just a tactic my wife is using to convince me OMW should never find out... basically so she can continue contact. But even so, I realize that there is an extremely good chance this is not going to happen. Hell she might even defend OM and be completely pissed off at me. If that does happen, should I offer to email her absolute proof (not everything I have but enough to show her how long its been going on, the fact that it was not just EA but also PA, etc). I really want OM close family and friends to find out but I'm not sure how to do it without the assistance of OMW.

Guess that's all for now. So many thoughts racing through my head right now.. sorry if it just seems like I'm rambling on and that I'm not listening to what people's responses are on here. I really am. It's just most of my adult life I've always done the thing that's easy (except with my children.. always have tried to do the right thing even when it has taken extreme patience and effort) so this is by far the most trying experience I've ever been through and am going to have to deal with. But I know I need to be prepared to lose her, even though I love her more than anything in this world. If I'm not prepared to do that then I realize I will lose all respect for myself and it's all just a downward spiral from there.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

She is blaming you for her affair and you are accepting the blame and agreeing with her. She says she wants to put the affair in the past but continues contact with OM.

Take responsibility for your part of the marital problems but the decision to have an affair is 100% her. Did she tell you she was going to have an affair? No, she just did it and lied to you about it.

She is blameshifting and gaslighting you and continuing to disrespect you by staying in contact with OM. This is bullsh<t. 

Do not let her do this. Respect yourself.

Accept that divorce is looking more inevitable. Do not argue with her. Do not accept her not willing to talk to you about it. And please do not sit still for continued contact with OM.

It is time for you to ask her to leave.

Edit: The OM almost always tells the AP that his wife is nuts. What is going to tell her? That his wife is beautiful, a great wife and mother but he just wants a little strange on the side. If you know where he lives just go knock on the door.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Your wife is completely full of it. Grow a spine. Demand the information you need to contact OMW and then do it. I hate to see what this awful woman is putting you through. If you want to be happy again, you need to be strong.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Cheating Wife: Husband Gets Revenge With Letter To Neighbors
The husband exposed the OM to his entire neighborhood. You could do something like that but you need to be clever about it.


Your wife is completely railroading you. From your earlier posts, it looked like it might have been genuinely remorseful but your most recent posts give a more clear picture. She manipulated the hell out of you and she is taking advantage of your naivety and your situation. Do not trust this woman. Atleast for now. Relationships are better than this. 

Do you realize that she probably projected you as a loser to her OM ? tHe same thing she did You seriously need to end this relationship or atleast be ready to end it. Your attitude that the affair is not a deal breaker is the exact reason you are in the position you are in.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

skltn said:


> 7. I wish I could talk to OMW and get her on the same page with me as far as exposure is concerned. According to my wife, she's crazy and could possibly do something completely unpredictable, which I know is probably just a tactic my wife is using to convince me OMW should never find out... basically so she can continue contact. But even so, I realize that there is an extremely good chance this is not going to happen. Hell she might even defend OM and be completely pissed off at me. If that does happen, should I offer to email her absolute proof (not everything I have but enough to show her how long its been going on, the fact that it was not just EA but also PA, etc). I really want OM close family and friends to find out but I'm not sure how to do it without the assistance of OMW.


That right there is a very common lie. It is done to protect your cheating wife and her pos partner in case it blows up and their stories don't match.

They will say *anything* to rationalise and deflect. I was told not to go around to the OM's house (this is before I knew it had been physical) because he had dangerously high blood pressure, his sick mother was there, he would not know what I was asking about, his cousins had murdered people in the past (she used this threat on a number of occasions).

Even I saw through every single one of those things as BS (his cousins are nutters but they wouldn't tangle with my family over something so trivial).

This is all part of the rug sweeping and control and is, in and of itself, a major, major red flag.

Good on you for starting to turn this around!
_
Edit: I should say, the day I turned up at the coward OM's house and he pretended not to be in, was the day their affair ended._


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> This is all part of the rug sweeping and control and is, in and of itself, a major, major red flag.


:iagree:

This alone would cause me to believe the A is still on underground.


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

JESuS F-ing Chr1st.... YOU MUST EXPOSE! I dont care about work, but if you expose to your family, her family and yours/ hers friends it will end. She feels no weight of shame now. You must lso expose to OWM, that will stop his advances COLD. Then you can figure out everything else.

BTW, the odds are much more favorable that when you contact OMW your experience will be similiar to mine, where she thanked me profusely, because she too had suspected for some time.

You re centering your decisions based off of information you are getting from a KNOWN LIAR with something huge to protect. All logic says you should challenge this info, but because you love her ghost, you are not. Everyhing she tells is to be questioned!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

The all say the other BS is unstable always every time.

It's to keep you from exposing her lover.

She's still sacrificing you to protect him.

Not acceptable and not remorseful.


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## skltn (Apr 16, 2013)

So I think I'm going to expose and confront tomorrow. Found nothing on VAR today.. but I'm getting seriously antsy and feel like I need to take action asap. Part of it is that I know I've become increasingly distant with my wife since dday 2 and I'm afraid if more time goes by she might get too suspicious and preempt my plan which could set things up to go badly.

As of now my plan of action is the following:

1. Expose to OMW

2. Expose to OM family/friends (most likely via Facebook PMs which could end up running me a pretty penny it seems)

3. Expose to wife's family/friends and my family

3. Expose to OM supervisor and HR

4. Confront my wife w/o children present (hoping to drop them off with a family member if possible)

As far as conditions are concerned this is what I'm thinking:

1. NC letter

2. 100% transparency (never deleting txts, phone logs, emails.. also total access to passwords, access to phone at anytime, etc) including notifying me immediately if OM attempts contact.

3. Quit job

4. Sell vehicle (where large percentage of "hooking up" took place)

5. Ditch any clothing items that were his "favorites"

6. No friends of opposite sex (co-workers and acquaintances are one thing but PMs, texts, phone calls about "how are you doing," convos about each others feelings/emotions, comments about looks, etc.

7. Move a substantial distance away (this one I'm still debating.. but OM lives 5 min from us and we've already run into him.. and she has run into him while out by herself a couple times apparently. I just don't see how it's going to work if OM is always right there. Its like telling a crackhead they can't have crack... but by the way there's some sitting over there about 20 ft away)

Any thoughts/comments? Thanks again for everyone's responses!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I have a couple of thot's and I know I along with others have told you the right way things need to be done, and what does need to be done---

BUT------

You are a SAHD---she works----she puts bread on the table---she pays the bills------and you want her to quit her job, and sell her car-------OK---now its time to join the REAL WORLD

Unless you have a large amount of money put away---or a relative who is gonna GIVE you money for a long period of time---what do you intend to do, to eat, clothe, your family, pay utilities, to LIVE----do you have a printing press that prints money

You are gonna pull up stakes and move----hey guess what the moving company, is gonna want to be paid to move your belongings----or were you gonna put everything in her car---whoops---you were gonna sell her car---so how do you move with no wheels

You think your so called mge---has problems, and it does---but if she quits her job---without another one to take its place immediately----this so-called mge you are in---is gonna implode w/in a month

You just can't run around making rash decisions-----you have to have GREENBACK DOLLARS---to live--

-no money,,, nothing is gonna last---cuz if you think you ain't getting along now----wait till everyone is hungry, but there's no money to buy food, pay bills----whoops I am repeating myself

I know there is a set way cheating is to be dealt with -----but in your case----if your wife leaves her job----you just compounded your problems a thousand times

You need to sit down, and think everything thru---before you run around making rash demands---that will lead to an even worse mess than you have right now!!!!!!!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Exposé to her family, his family (FB PMs are FREE), and his wife.

Leave the threat of work on the table.

Why not tell HIM to move if he wants to keep his precious job?

Making her lover move away is a serious alpha move.


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## skltn (Apr 16, 2013)

The things I mentioned in my last post I have thought about quite a bit. At this point I'm trying to separate any emotions I have that might be affecting my actions in a negative way. Although this is difficult to do, I find it's becoming easier as time goes by and I have time process my thoughts and the full scope of the situation. My goal is to try to think about this logically and think about what I can do that will get results (whether that means she stays or goes) and which allows me to respect myself in the process.

Remember that she is basically being the "perfect" wife right now. Yes we've had a few arguments when it comes to talking about the A and me wanting to still bring stuff up about it and work through it. However, aside from our conversations regarding the A, she has been going to extremes to communicate with me throughout the day, make me feel like we're "best friends" again, and that I'm the one she can't wait to be with after getting home from work.. or me from class/work. Also, telling me she loves me basically every time we talk over the phone. Also, just recently I've learned she's even been talking me up to her friends/family regarding what I'm doing with going back to school, getting good grades and even losing weight (20 lbs in 3 months.. nothing like betrayal to jump start weight loss, huh?.. heh). Which in the past she has been vocal at times to friends/family about my "shortcomings." 

Since I'm dealing with a false R, I feel like I can only draw 2 conclusions from why she's been going to such extremes in treating me so well:

1. OM and A is a complete and total addiction that she doesn't have the strength to separate herself from.

or 

2. She is doing this for some complete twisted and perverse reason that I can not even imagine but possibly something having to do with simply wanting to hang on to me hoping OM will leave his wife for her.. or something like that.

Either way, I feel like I need to present her with consequences and conditions that are hardcore enough that they will either totally and completely break her, thereby hopefully the addiction (assuming she DOES want to be with me). Or send her running away from me (assuming she feels like the conditions and work she would be subjected to if she were to stay with me are not worth the idea of hanging on to me as a reserve husband.. or until OM leaves his wife.. or whatever reason she might be doing this that I don't think of)

I just don't see what other options I have. I realize some of my conditions might be really extreme... but if I don't present her with anything extreme, how will I ever be sure if she wants to stay with me because she wants ME or if it's for some other reason? I guess I'm willing to tweak some of my conditions.. I just don't want to regret what I do after the fact and feel like I didn't REALLY do what I should have.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think it is a mix of two. 

How would you be convinced of her sincerity if she wouldn't do it otherwise ? She knows what are important to you. So to keep you in good graces so that you won't expose to her family/OMW and since she loved you once she does not find it very hard to continue the act. The OM and her affair are addiction that make her feel good, so she still continues that. Almost as if you are a responsibility and the OM her passion and she wants both as long as the worlds don't collide.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

skltn said:


> The things I mentioned in my last post I have thought about quite a bit. At this point I'm trying to separate any emotions I have that might be affecting my actions in a negative way. Although this is difficult to do, I find it's becoming easier as time goes by and I have time process my thoughts and the full scope of the situation. My goal is to try to think about this logically and think about what I can do that will get results (whether that means she stays or goes) and which allows me to respect myself in the process.
> 
> *Remember that she is basically being the "perfect" wife right now. * Yes we've had a few arguments when it comes to talking about the A and me wanting to still bring stuff up about it and work through it. However, aside from our conversations regarding the A, she has been going to extremes to communicate with me throughout the day, *make me feel like we're "best friends*" again, and that I'm the one she can't wait to be with after getting home from work.. or me from class/work. Also, telling me she loves me basically every time we talk over the phone. Also, just recently I've learned she's even been talking me up to her friends/family regarding what I'm doing with going back to school, getting good grades and even losing weight (20 lbs in 3 months.. nothing like betrayal to jump start weight loss, huh?.. heh). Which in the past she has been vocal at times to friends/family about my "shortcomings."
> 
> ...



Read the highlighted portion.

She is having her fun and excitement by being with her OM and having a jobless babysitter at home to babysit her children.

She lost her attraction for you when you started babysitting without going to work, she find that attraction and fun in OM that is the reason for her addiction to OM.

You can break that addiction only by you being a real man, not the one you are/became now. A real man who brings bread to his home, who wont tolerate any disrespect or eat **** sandwich. Who wont be ready to be someones babysitter or cuckold husband.

If you become that real alpha man, she may follow you, if she is truly ready to follow you then R else move on with your life. The life you are living now is not healthy.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

She's not being the perfect wife. Only in a few ways. In a big way, she isn't.

She is being perfect because this enables the affair to continue. It is a means to and end. "Keeps the stupid husband quite" whilst she gets it from the OM. Not rocket science is it?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

The last couple of posters, may have your problem nailed------

You can still go to Doc cool, and read from the mouths of hard core cheaters, how they mollify their spouses, by doing exactly what your wife is doing, but they continue their A., way, way underground

No one really knows---what your W., is ACTUALLY up to, but if you are to even start to continue to keep this mge----you need to find out

One of the main weapons in stopping an A---is that she would have to quit her job, which at least openly wipes out contact with her lover----YOU CAN'T DO THAT----you have to eat, and pay bills, and by you choosing to be a SAHD----you don't contribute---so she HAS to keep her job, like it or not

You might demand a poly---to see where she is right now, and what her motivations actually are

She might be legit., in her attempt at keeping her mge. going, and becoming a good mother once again---who knows----short of demanding a poly---you need to investigate with everything you can use, and see where your W., really is with all of this---

but in all reality, you have painted yourself into a corner, by your choice of not having a job and therefore, you CAN'T take care of the family needs and necessities

You gotta decide what YOUR future is gonna be---cuz as long as she is the breadwinner, and she "disses" you----your situation isn't very good-------if she decides, once again, that you ain't satisfying her, or meeting her needs---she is gonna find another man, and she won't think twice about it---cuz she DOES NOT DEPEND ON YOU FOR ANYTHING----sad to say, but in your situation as it is now----that is the way things are----somehow, you need to get on equal footing with her.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She can never be the perfect wife because she can never un-cheat on you. So that should give you the reason to treat her like crap or cheat on her, right ? Well, that is her logic of the whole scenario.


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