# "Deserving to be happy"



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

My wife says that she is depressed because she thinks that deep down she doesn't believe she "deserves to be happy."

I think this is a strange way to think about things and I don't totally understand it -- what is "deserving" to be happy? Don't we have a responsibility to seek our own happiness?

I almost feel like what she is really saying is that she does think she deserves to be happy and she's upset that she's not happy. 

Am I not understanding something here?


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## CarlaRose (Jul 6, 2014)

1. She's not happy, so she's having a pity party feeling that since she isn't, she must not deserve to be.

or
2. She's done something that she's feeling guilty about.

or
3. She is depressed and suffers bipolar syndrome.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

CarlaRose said:


> 1. She's not happy, so she's having a pity party feeling that since she isn't, she must not deserve to be.
> 
> or
> 2. She's done something that she's feeling guilty about.
> ...


I do feel like she is having a pity party. I do not think she's bipolar. I think she may feel guilty about something, because she also said something like "I don't think I offer you much in the relationship"


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John Lee said:


> I do feel like she is having a pity party. I do not think she's bipolar. I think she may feel guilty about something, because she also said something like "I don't think I offer you much in the relationship"


How about encouraging her to talk more about that?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

jld said:


> How about encouraging her to talk more about that?


I tried. She was very depressed and did not want to talk about it. At first I tried to tell her all the things I think she does offer me but it was clearly not the moment for that. She is very unhappy with the way her life is, and part of me is sympathetic while part of me thinks her life is the result of her choices and she does not accept that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John Lee said:


> I tried. She was very depressed and did not want to talk about it. At first I tried to tell her all the things I think she does offer me but it was clearly not the moment for that. She is very unhappy with the way her life is, and part of me is sympathetic while part of me thinks her life is the result of her choices and she does not accept that.


She's not strong enough to hear it right now. You have to be strong to be able to hear about your shortcomings.

How about just holding her when she says something like that?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

jld said:


> She's not strong enough to hear it right now. You have to be strong to be able to hear about your shortcomings.
> 
> How about just holding her when she says something like that?


She gets very anti-touch when she is in this kind of state. I always try to offer my hand on her back or holding her but usually she does not want it at those times.

I wasn't trying to tell her her shortcomings, I was trying to tell her positives to make her feel better, but she didn't want to hear it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John Lee said:


> She gets very anti-touch when she is in this kind of state. I always try to offer my hand on her back or holding her but usually she does not want it at those times.


Does she want you to stay with her, or not? As in, stay in the room, or leave her alone?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Does humor work at those moments?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

jld said:


> Does she want you to stay with her, or not? As in, stay in the room, or leave her alone?


In the end she wanted me to leave her alone, so I left. Sometimes there is "leave me alone" which does not really mean "leave me alone," but this one seemed to be a sincere "leave me alone."


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

jld said:


> Does humor work at those moments?


no


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

It sounds like she is working through a great amount of shame. I would say, in such moments, don't caretake her, try to lift her spirits or, coerce her to alter her perspective. Just listen and comfort her.

Ask questions. "Tell me more about that. What makes you feel that way?" NEVER, respond with, "Well, you shouldn't feel that way, because...." This will only make her feel alone and her feelings are invalid...because you are subtly saying to her, "I really can't handle this right now, so how about you regret that you ever told me and stuff it?" 

Sure, sometimes our wives need to hear: "Put on your big girl panties", but I don't think this is the time. Just listen and respond to her by asking questions so that you are able to know exactly where she is coming from. I am hoping then she will begin to feel comfortable and safe enough to talk with you about solutions and you can appropriately convey her value in your eyes that won't sound patronizing.

Again, my guess is shame and regret...as people will often begin to disqualify themselves if they are burdened by those sorts of feelings. 

I don't wanna unnecessarily raise alarms, but if her mood has been very recent and inexplicable, then sometimes that can be a sign that she is trying to deal with something that she has hidden from you...as sometimes unconfessed guilt will lead someone to become depressed and may "leak" clues as to their struggle.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> * John Lee said:* In the end she wanted me to leave her alone, so I left. Sometimes there is "leave me alone" which does not really mean "leave me alone," but this one seemed to be a sincere "leave me alone."


I can not relate to your wife at all... if I felt like that, I'd speak as clear as day, whine , give it a nice Bi*ch fest then allow my husband to hold me all night long.. in this I would find healing..(as much as could be under whatever circumstances..this would be soothing, even needed to me) ..

I've never been one to shut down.. 

Reading Former Self's post makes a lot of sense though !:smthumbup:

When a loved one shuts down on us, It ties our hands behind our backs.. what can we do? If even our sincere concern or questions irritate them .. as this is what I would suggest..starting there...just listening to whatever she needs to get out/ off her chest .... to hear all of her heart so you could be of help to her.. you are her husband..as it should be....

If this unloading is something very hurtful to you...if her heart is divided against you .. this will be very difficult for her to come forth .. let's hope it's not that... 

It's hard to answer your original question as sometimes women speak things in such a way...what they say isn't really what they MEAN.. and you're left trying to figure it out -then she shuts you out.. Does she have passive aggressive tendencies ? 

Dealing With Passive Aggressive People

a tidbit of this article mentioning shutting down...



> This sets up a myriad of problems, for those who are the target of their anger. It is very difficult to deal with someone who is basically unhappy, not willing to talk about it, and not wanting to take any responsibility themselves for their feelings. They want the fault to lay with everyone else. They feel like a victim. In a way they are, but the passive aggressive person has victimized themselves.
> 
> Shutting down feelings of anger causes a person to lose touch with their own feelings, not just those of anger, but most other feelings too. It is hard to be happy if you are cut off from your emotions. It is hard to be happy, when your past weighs you down because you haven’t dealt with it.
> It is hard to be happy when you carry around hostility towards people, usually parents that you never get to express. It is hard to be happy when you feel afraid to express your natural emotions.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I can not relate to your wife at all... if I felt like that, I'd speak as clear as day, whine , give it a nice Bi*ch fest then allow my husband to hold me all night long.. in this I would find healing..(as much as could be under whatever circumstances..this would be soothing, even needed to me) ..


Chuckle. This is exactly what I do. My poor H.......


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

She might be feeling guilty about something. Or she's projecting and actually feels like she gives a lot to you and doesn't get enough back.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

This wouldn't have something to do with her situation at work would it? I remember you had concerns about that not so long ago.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John Lee said:


> I tried. She was very depressed and did not want to talk about it. At first I tried to tell her all the things I think she does offer me but it was clearly not the moment for that. She is very unhappy with the way her life is, and part of me is sympathetic while part of me thinks* her life is the result of her choices *and she does not accept that.


Of course. This is true for all of us. Do you think a happy marriage happens by accident?

Whom we accept to marry is a choice. I feel like my husband fell into my life, and picked me up out of the emotional mess I was in, but was it really like that?

He did offer me a stable environment, and he was a stable person. But I had to grab ahold of the opportunity. I had to make the most of it. He was there to be supportive, in the ways he knew, and to the extent he felt like it, but I was still the one living my life.

I feel sorry for your wife. She really has not separated from her parents. I am wondering if she feels she is not getting the kind of support she needs from you, either. I think if she were, she would turn to you. She must feel so alone.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

For what it's worth, she says today she was just exhausted and snapped out of it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

John Lee said:


> For what it's worth, she says today she was just exhausted and snapped out of it.


Geez 
I was getting it was that pesky dude at her work place.
I hope she's better.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think seeking to be constantly happy is a road to depression in itself. We have good times and bad, we have sadness and happiness, but these are just phases. Overall there should be some sort of equilibrium.

I think she has probably been a little bombarded and brainwashed by the idea that everyone should be blissfully happy and walking around with stupid grins 24/7. She can't see how she could ever possibly achieve this sort of happiness. It's an illusion. She's chasing an illusion.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't think people deserve anything let alone happiness. That's why people have to work for what they get.

Seems to me she doesn't believe she can achieve happiness, not that she doesn't deserve it.

My first question would be what doors she think happiness looks like? Without goals you can't achieve anything except by chance... Maybe she has no vision.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I wonder if she had a rough childhood or is a victim of child abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Could be...


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

If it continues she should see her doctor and he can run a depression test. Could she also have PMS problems?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

CarlaRose said:


> 1. She's not happy, so she's having a pity party feeling that since she isn't, she must not deserve to be.
> 
> or
> 2. She's done something that she's feeling guilty about.
> ...


I was thinking 2 or 3 (not necessarily involving BPD), and, like tom67, wondering about the dipstick "friend" at her workplace.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

So, talked more, it's definitely not the guy at work (changes at work mean they haven't even been running into each other much), it's other things: (1) she feels guilty and stressed out that we're about to give up our nanny and send our child to preschool, (2) she's had a bad year at work and feels stuck and unappreciated there.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

This is the point you recommend that she leaves her job, where she can take care of the child, feel appreciated, and not worry about nannies and pre school. Also solves the pesky guy at work problem. Win / Win / Win scenario.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

mablenc said:


> I wonder if she had a rough childhood or is a victim of child abuse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's really attached to the parents, in an unhealthy way, imo. I think the OP could help her stand up to them, but he is reluctant to, as the parents provide financial help and help with the child.

John, are you working on financial independence from her parents?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Hicks said:


> This is the point you recommend that she leaves her job, where she can take care of the child, feel appreciated, and not worry about nannies and pre school. Also solves the pesky guy at work problem. Win / Win / Win scenario.


The plan is baby #2 soon, she takes a year off minimum and hopefully longer, maybe never having to go back to that job. I may try to move to a larger firm with better money to accommodate this.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

jld said:


> She's really attached to the parents, in an unhealthy way, imo. I think the OP could help her stand up to them, but he is reluctant to, as the parents provide financial help and help with the child.
> 
> John, are you working on financial independence from her parents?


The frustrating thing is that we actually do have financial independence from her parents, technically. I make a good salary, and my wife does ok too. We make enough to live perfectly comfortably without them. But my wife insists on things that make us more dependent on them, and to be fair, they tend to insist on them too. For example, we didn't especially need to buy a place now, we could have waited a few more years and rented while we saved up, but my wife and her parents both thought we needed to buy a place now, so we got down payment money from them. Also, my wife insisted on doing this expensive degree program which eats up a big chunk of our income. The one place I stood my ground was that I refused student loans -- if she was going to do this, I wanted us to take responsibility for it and not put off all the costs til later (not to mention all the accrued interest). Without the degree program, we'd be doing very well financially.

Oh and I forgot to explain -- when she started the degree program, the only reason I ultimately agreed was that her parents were going to help. But then after a year they stopped helping us, and I was stuck with an ugly choice -- make my wife quit or take on the financial burden.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John, if you could make these financial decisions all over again, what would you do?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

jld said:


> John, if you could make these financial decisions all over again, what would you do?


My preference on the degree would have been to either wait a few more years or for my wife to look for a funded program instead of one we have to pay so much for. If the former, she could have focused on looking for a job she was happier in.

I can't really say I regret getting the down payment money now, it's nice to own a place. But I would have been ok with renting for longer. My goal now is just to keep our finances under control so that we don't wind up coming to them again for financial help. I did control the purchase decision with the home and I made sure we stayed well within our means for mortgage and monthly costs.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I was thinking that if you had refused their money from the beginning, and you and your wife had just lived on the money you and she made, there would not be the financial strings with the in-laws. You would be free and independent. 

I think that would help your wife's emotional state, as it relates to her parents.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

jld said:


> I was thinking that if you had refused their money from the beginning, and you and your wife had just lived on the money you and she made, there would not be the financial strings with the in-laws. You would be free and independent.
> 
> I think that would help your wife's emotional state, as it relates to her parents.


I think you are right.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

What could you do now to move towards cutting financial ties to her parents, to get your independence?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

jld said:


> What could you do now to move towards cutting financial ties to her parents, to get your independence?


Well I mean other than paying them back the downpayment, there's really nothing. We are financially independent of them other than that.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

John Lee said:


> Well I mean other than paying them back the downpayment, there's really nothing. We are financially independent of them other than that.


John I'm sorry I saw the political boolshYt my mother went through with her PHD between a Teddy Rosevelt decsendent and other bs, actually I kind of liked communists fighting amongst one another.
She is still my mom though.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Well I mean other than paying them back the downpayment, there's really nothing. We are financially independent of them other than that.


How about taking a loan and paying them back?

I think for your wife to ever have the talks that she really needs to have with her parents, you two need to be financially independent of them. 

And you need to see yourself, john, as having been fully complicit in the decisions that were taken. No more blaming her or her parents for anything. You had, and you have, power. You need to take responsibility for how you have used it. That will free you up to use it more effectively now and in the future.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

jld said:


> How about taking a loan and paying them back?
> 
> I think for your wife to ever have the talks that she really needs to have with her parents, you two need to be financially independent of them.
> 
> And you need to see yourself, john, as having been fully complicit in the decisions that were taken. No more blaming her or her parents for anything. You had, and you have, power. You need to take responsibility for how you have used it. That will free you up to use it more effectively now and in the future.


I think you're right on an emotional level, but it makes no financial sense to take a loan and pay them back. I don't even think we could get such a loan. Perhaps it would make more sense to make a plan to pay them back gradually.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Baby number two at the moment seems ill advised.

Depression gets worse with less sleep. And a depressed mom has a very negative impact on a child's development.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John Lee said:


> I think you're right on an emotional level, but it makes no financial sense to take a loan and pay them back. I don't even think we could get such a loan. Perhaps it would make more sense to make a plan to pay them back gradually.


I just think financial independence from parents is really important when you're married. 

And how about not blaming her and them anymore for what you willingly agreed to?


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

I would suggest, until you get to the root of all this, and things are much better. I would not add another child to this mix. It will only make things worse.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

John Lee said:


> So, talked more, it's definitely not the guy at work (changes at work mean they haven't even been running into each other much), it's other things: (1) she feels guilty and stressed out that we're about to give up our nanny and send our child to preschool, (2) she's had a bad year at work and feels stuck and unappreciated there.



Do you have to give up the nanny? If you feel that your child would be happier with the nanny may be you shouldn't.

What is her job like? Is there something you could assist her with? May be you should just ask.

Did you ask her when she would feel happy? What must happen in order for her to be happy? Is that goal realistic? How can you help her achieve it?

It sounds like your wife has a lot of good things in her life, a child she wanted, a job as a professional, a place in an phD-programe. It sounds like everything in her life is going according to plan. May be you should point out her blessing to her a bit more.


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