# Two weeks ago my wife was unfaithful. Trying to work it out, feels like hell on earth



## Gloomy Sunday

My wife and I are in our 40's and have been together for almost 20 years, although we actually married fairly recently. We met through mutual friends and we do not have any children. We have always considered ourselves soul-mates and have never hidden things from each other.

Two weeks ago, my wife went on a long weekend trip with a male friend of ours (BTW he is not the culprit). I trust this person who she went on the trip with because we are good friends with both him and his wife. And just like me, his wife has no problems with the situation because we both trust our spouses. They stay in the same hotel room but sleep in separate beds. This is a trip to a convention they have been taking together for the past 8 years and until this year there have never been any problems.

On the morning my wife arrived home she woke me up (it was 5:30am) and told me that she slept with someone the night before. I was devastated, hurt, and angry. In the following days she told me what had happened. At first I thought it was some stranger, but it turns out that it was someone who she worked with who was about half her age. She has been working with the male culprit for about a year and knew he would be at the same event she was attending. She told me that the day it happened, she was intoxicated and ditched our mutual friend to wander around. The male culprit texted her to go to his hotel room to hang with his friends and have some drinks so she went. As the night wore on, people left the room leaving her alone with him. One thing led to another and they wound up sleeping together. She told me that after the deed was done, she was upset and told him that she was going to tell me what happened because her life was over. He asked her not to tell me, but she said that she could not hide this from me.

At first I was so shocked that all I wanted was to just pack my stuff and leave. Eventually I came to realize that we have so much tied up both emotionally and financially that it would not be so easy to do. I would like for us to remain together but it is not going to be easy for me until I find out how this happened. I know that whatever answer I get is not going to be satisfactory but in order for this not to happen ever again, she has to realize why she did it. No matter how much I try to find some kind of understanding it just makes me feel worse. I have been losing sleep, not eating properly and drinking a lot.

What really infuriates me about the whole thing is how she put herself in such a situation. She's always had male friends and I've never had a problem. I allowed it, but I've always told her to be careful who she hangs out with and she would sometimes be offended when I said that and get defensive by telling me that not every man is out to get into her pants (oh, the irony!!!). This guy who she was with knew that she was married and still went ahead with what he did (which also makes me angry at him). I saw the history of communication on her phone between the both of them and nothing gives me the impression that this was planned (at least on her behalf).

The other factor is why did it have to go to that extreme for her to realize that what she did was wrong? Why didn't she stop this once the culprit started kissing her? Why didn't she stop this when clothing was being removed? Why didn't she stop this when foreplay was engaged? etc, etc... Was there some kind of moral disconnect or was she enjoying herself so much that ruining our lives was the last thing on her mind?

She has apologized and is remorseful (???) about what happened. She has cut off all communication with this person and given me passwords to social media, smart phone, etc... and constantly texts me as to where she's at and what she's up to. The only issue I have is that she is on break right now from her job, but next month she returns to work where the culprit also works. She tells me that he works in a different area than her and they would only see each other for maybe 10 minutes a week (for work reasons).

Last night I could not contain some of my anger and blew up. I got in her face, started yelling and even waved my fists at her because I felt she was being defensive and trying to dump some of the blame on me. She denied that she was trying to do that, but I felt otherwise. I could never lay a hand on her and I never have. That’s the ugliest it’s ever gotten between us. Before this incident our arguments were very minor and we barely even raised our voices to each other.

Today I got a response from her that the reason she did what she did was “I was drunk, horny and stupid, what else could I say, there is no justification or satisfactory answer as to why I did what I did and it will never happen again."

I know I wasn't a perfect husband, but I am not going to take even 1% of the blame for what she did. Right now we are going to counseling and next week I am going to attend a support group to try and help ease some of the pain. Although it is not recommended for couples trying to fix their marriage, I feel like doing the same to her so she knows just how I feel and also because my self-esteem is in the gutter. In my life I’ve never felt so unattractive, unloved and insecure. The humiliation, hurt and anger that I am going through is not something that will go away anytime soon, but I feel deep within my confused mind doing something just as foul will boost my self-esteem (which is already at the lowest it's ever been).

There is no doubt that we still love each other and want to make this work, but I don't know what lies ahead.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Roselyn

She is 100% responsible for her infidelity. She needs to stop slumming with men and sleeping in rooms other than with her husband. She played with fire and got burned. I've been married for 37 years (first time for the both of us) and a career woman in all of those years. When travelling for work, I always stay in my own room. Your place of work reimburses you for expenses in conferences and if not, you can deduct it from your taxes. 

You're only 40ish and I'm 59 years old. I wouldn't take that type of behavior from my husband if he did this. No children in your marriage. None in mine by choice and I would divorce and split our assets. I deserve better than an unremorseful, drunken, and horney spouse. You're young enough to find a woman who deserves you. Your choice to stay or divorce.


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## sokillme

She is not your soulmate. She probably has done a lot more from the sound of her boundaries. Where was the male friend of hers, covering for her? Does his wife know? You should tell her because they probably cover for each other. I would bet good money this is not your wife's first rodeo, this was not drunk, horny and stupid because she had to be premeditated to be around this guy where there was opportunity. New job is a must. 

**** test her and tell her you want a polygraph. I bet you find out a lot more. Honestly the truth is you are never going to have the same relationship with her that you once did. You probably are coming to terms with that, but you need to. No amount of hard work is going to make it go back to the way it was. You have a new relationship with a different person. I know that is hard but it's the truth. You would do better to accept that then trying to get the old one back will only prolong your pain and drive you crazy. 

She is not your soulmate. Just another common cheater.


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## sokillme

Roselyn said:


> You're only 40ish and I'm 59 years old. I wouldn't take that type of behavior from my husband if he did this. No children in your marriage. None in mine by choice and I would divorce and split our assets. I deserve better than an unremorseful, drunken, and horney spouse. You're young enough to find a woman who deserves you. Your choice to stay or divorce.


Quoted for truth. What married women takes trips and sleeps in hotel rooms with other men? It's really not surprising she cheated with such poor boundaries.


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## EleGirl

Gloomy Sunday said:


> I know I wasn't a perfect husband, but I am not going to take even 1% of the blame for what she did.


What has she said that is her trying to blame you for what she did? Could you please elaborate on it?


Gloomy Sunday said:


> Right now we are going to counseling and next week I am going to attend a support group to try and help ease some of the pain. Although it is not recommended for couples trying to fix their marriage, I feel like doing the same to her so she knows just how I feel and also because my self-esteem is in the gutter. In my life I’ve never felt so unattractive, unloved and insecure. The humiliation, hurt and anger that I am going through is not something that will go away anytime soon, but I feel deep within my confused mind doing something just as foul will boost my self-esteem (which is already at the lowest it's ever been).


Yea, wanting to cheat is a pretty normal reaction for a betrayed spouse. But don’t do you. You will most likely find that it only makes you feel worse about yourself. 


Gloomy Sunday said:


> There is no doubt that we still love each other and want to make this work, but I don't know what lies ahead.


This is a hard thing to go through. Take it one day at a time. It will take months, if no years, to work through this.

Is she still working with this guy?


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## EleGirl

It's very odd that she came home and just told you. Most people who cheat would hide it.


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## TheTruthHurts

EleGirl said:


> It's very odd that she came home and just told you. Most people who cheat would hide it.




My thoughts too.

Is there any way you would have found out? Did others see them together? If so, did she tell you to get in front of it?

If not then it's possible this was a one time deal. Most stories here are not one time deals so the people who have been betrayed have a pretty horrible experience to share.

A couple of TAM folks have actually had a single slip up and worked hard to recover trust. It's a very tough road.


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## Herschel

A lot of people will tell you that you can overcome this with years of effort and complete contrition on her part. Can is the operative word. Is it worth those years of effort and always questioning and wondering to possibly make it work. Not only do you have to get over it, but she has to as well. And it's a ***** to get to that point.

Tell her, she can be as drunk and horny as she wants and file for divorce. Who wants to be with someone who wants a different ****/vagina? You have no kids, untie the knots and get yourself out.


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## sokillme

TheTruthHurts said:


> Most stories here are not one time deals


Most affairs are not usually one time deals, so it is important to take what cheaters say with a grain of salt. Cheaters lie, it is a part of their nature. They are very good at it, and usually have years of practice even before they cheat.


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## ABHale

This is the problem with what she has said. 

"I was drunk, horny and stupid and it won't happen again."

If it won't happen again then why did it happen the first time?

She ditched the friend to go and hang out with the OM. She stayed with him even after everyone else left. 

This was planned out before she left for the convention. The only reason you know about it is because the guilt was more then she could handle. If she could have, she would never have told you. 

Also, all the good times that you have had with her are gone forever. Your past relationship is destroyed. You can look back with regret of once was because it is gone forever. 

You need to separate for a while and cool off. Get your head right. Then go from there. Being around her is just going to cause the anger to flash and for things to be said that can't be taken back.


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## ABHale

TheTruthHurts said:


> My thoughts too.
> 
> Is there any way you would have found out? Did others see them together? If so, did she tell you to get in front of it?
> 
> If not then it's possible this was a one time deal. Most stories here are not one time deals so the people who have been betrayed have a pretty horrible experience to share.
> 
> A couple of TAM folks have actually had a single slip up and worked hard to recover trust. It's a very tough road.


His best friend was there with her and she ditched him to be with the OM. So yes someone was there, his best friend.


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## GusPolinski

She gets a new job ASAP or you file for divorce.

No half measures, no middle ground.

If OM is married or has a girlfriend (do your research), expose the tryst to her as well.


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## ABHale

You could tell her sense she opened the marriage up you are going on a date. Just to get her reaction you know. 

This was planned. Have no doubt about that. That is why she never stopped til it was over. Also your friend knew she was out all night and not with him. Or he could have heard what she had done. He would have let you known this. She had to tell before he did.


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## VladDracul

Gloomy Sunday said:


> She told me that the day it happened, she was intoxicated and ditched our mutual friend to wander around.


Gloomy my man, its almost a certainty she ditched the mutual friend not to wander around but for the purpose of hooking up with the co-worker. I to hope you and your friends wifypoo, don't totally dismiss the possibility your wife and friend are jumping each others bones at these conventions. Think about it Dawg, what would you do if you and his old lady were in a hotel room for several nights and about 2 in the morning she slipped into bed with you and all you had to do is keep your mouth shut about it. There's just something about out of town hotel rooms that make folks want to touch one another.


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## arbitrator

Gloomy Sunday said:


> My wife and I are in our 40's and have been together for almost 20 years, although we actually married fairly recently. We met through mutual friends and we do not have any children. We have always considered ourselves soul-mates and have never hidden things from each other.
> 
> Two weeks ago, my wife went on a long weekend trip with a male friend of ours (BTW he is not the culprit). I trust this person who she went on the trip with because we are good friends with both him and his wife. And just like me, his wife has no problems with the situation because we both trust our spouses. They stay in the same hotel room but sleep in separate beds. This is a trip to a convention they have been taking together for the past 8 years and until this year there have never been any problems.
> 
> On the morning my wife arrived home she woke me up (it was 5:30am) and told me that she slept with someone the night before. I was devastated, hurt, and angry. In the following days she told me what had happened. At first I thought it was some stranger, but it turns out that it was someone who she worked with who was about half her age. She has been working with the male culprit for about a year and knew he would be at the same event she was attending. She told me that the day it happened, she was intoxicated and ditched our mutual friend to wander around. The male culprit texted her to go to his hotel room to hang with his friends and have some drinks so she went. As the night wore on, people left the room leaving her alone with him. One thing led to another and they wound up sleeping together. She told me that after the deed was done, she was upset and told him that she was going to tell me what happened because her life was over. He asked her not to tell me, but she said that she could not hide this from me.
> 
> At first I was so shocked that all I wanted was to just pack my stuff and leave. Eventually I came to realize that we have so much tied up both emotionally and financially that it would not be so easy to do. I would like for us to remain together but it is not going to be easy for me until I find out how this happened. I know that whatever answer I get is not going to be satisfactory but in order for this not to happen ever again, she has to realize why she did it. No matter how much I try to find some kind of understanding it just makes me feel worse. I have been losing sleep, not eating properly and drinking a lot.
> 
> What really infuriates me about the whole thing is how she put herself in such a situation. She's always had male friends and I've never had a problem. I allowed it, but I've always told her to be careful who she hangs out with and she would sometimes be offended when I said that and get defensive by telling me that not every man is out to get into her pants (oh, the irony!!!). This guy who she was with knew that she was married and still went ahead with what he did (which also makes me angry at him). I saw the history of communication on her phone between the both of them and nothing gives me the impression that this was planned (at least on her behalf).
> 
> The other factor is why did it have to go to that extreme for her to realize that what she did was wrong? Why didn't she stop this once the culprit started kissing her? Why didn't she stop this when clothing was being removed? Why didn't she stop this when foreplay was engaged? etc, etc... Was there some kind of moral disconnect or was she enjoying herself so much that ruining our lives was the last thing on her mind?
> 
> She has apologized and is remorseful (???) about what happened. She has cut off all communication with this person and given me passwords to social media, smart phone, etc... and constantly texts me as to where she's at and what she's up to. The only issue I have is that she is on break right now from her job, but next month she returns to work where the culprit also works. She tells me that he works in a different area than her and they would only see each other for maybe 10 minutes a week (for work reasons).
> 
> Last night I could not contain some of my anger and blew up. I got in her face, started yelling and even waved my fists at her because I felt she was being defensive and trying to dump some of the blame on me. She denied that she was trying to do that, but I felt otherwise. I could never lay a hand on her and I never have. That’s the ugliest it’s ever gotten between us. Before this incident our arguments were very minor and we barely even raised our voices to each other.
> 
> Today I got a response from her that the reason she did what she did was “I was drunk, horny and stupid, what else could I say, there is no justification or satisfactory answer as to why I did what I did and it will never happen again."
> 
> I know I wasn't a perfect husband, but I am not going to take even 1% of the blame for what she did. Right now we are going to counseling and next week I am going to attend a support group to try and help ease some of the pain. Although it is not recommended for couples trying to fix their marriage, I feel like doing the same to her so she knows just how I feel and also because my self-esteem is in the gutter. In my life I’ve never felt so unattractive, unloved and insecure. The humiliation, hurt and anger that I am going through is not something that will go away anytime soon, but I feel deep within my confused mind doing something just as foul will boost my self-esteem (which is already at the lowest it's ever been).
> 
> There is no doubt that we still love each other and want to make this work, but I don't know what lies ahead.
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.


*And just what firm guarantees do you have that "it" will never happen again? Don't be a fool!

When her panties fell off in the OM's bedroom, she knew exactly what it was that she was doing and who she was busy pleasuring!

It would seem to me that the "alcohol" itself is only conveniently being used as a rather placative excuse that is simply offered up because of its easy but otherwise lame viability!*


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## Thound

I could be wrong. I guess there is a first time for anything, but I think she was looking to get laid, and may have had deep remorse afterwards.


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## EleGirl

@Gloomy Sunday;

Here is a link to a video that I think would help you.


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## TX-SC

What she did was horrible. The fact that she confessed and is being open is a good sign. Likewise, her not making stupid excuses is a good sign. What happens now is up to you. 

I certainly would find out if the OM is married or dating someone. If so, I would do all that I can to expose this to her. Your wife should already be putting in resumes for new employment. Her being in proxemity to this guy will cause issues down the line. There needs to be zero contact. 

If you decide to stay married, she needs to seek help/counseling to strengthen her boundaries. 

Perhaps it's time for a hall pass.


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## Vinnydee

Wow, I would never be OK with my wife having male friends. When it comes to sex I do not trust anyone. My ex fiance cheated on me with a friend who was supposed to take care of her while I was in combat. He took care of her alright. Another ex girlfriend cheated on me with another friend. My best friend and best man's wife was allowed to have male friends. She had sex with one of her male friends and they divorced, got back together again, divorced when she cheated and are now married again. I went to a conference with a married women in my company, and she spent the week trying to get me in bed after she had a few drinks in her. She would actually call me in my hotel room to tell me what she wanted to do to me. No way.

Did you consider that your wife did have sex with your friend and was just making up this other guy to avoid a conflict with him. It is very common for someone who cheats to soften the blow when they confess like saying they drank too much, the number one reason given or that the sex was not good, etc.. Many cheaters feel a lot of guilt and they think it is a good idea to alleviate their guilt by turning their spouse's world upside down. It is actually a selfish act since it makes them get rid of their guilt by dumping it on their spouse's world. There is never any upside to confessing. For some reason people think that confessing will be better than resolving never to do it again and not destroy their spouse's life and trust in them. Trust takes a very long time to regain and even then, it will never be the same. Hey Hon, I had sex with someone else but don't you just love that I was honest about it by telling you so I could stop feeling guilty about it. I know I lied and broke your trust but like before, I will promise never to do that again. That is what it is like to the cheater's spouse. The cheater is stating that they are a liar and cannot be trusted but ask their spouse to trust them and believe a self admitted liar. That does not work for me but I am not in your shoes.

Take a look at this to determine your chances to save the marriage. Keep one thing in mind, how you react will let her know the consequences should she do it again. Once A Cheater, Always A Cheater? Marriage Therapists Weigh In | HuffPost

When I confessed to my wife, I told her I was drunk and it was some girl that was not even good looking. In fact, I was not drunk and the girl was a model in for a photoshoot who gave me the best sex in my life; 3 times. I also had sex with 3 women who were co-workers, two were married but we were nonmonogamous by then since my wife discovered she likes sex with girls too. I knew a lot of males and females who cheated on their spouses with co-workers. I saw them at bars after work and flirting in the office. No woman who wants to stay faithful goes out and gets drunk with men. They are playing coy and drinking so that they have the nerve to do what they want to do. Then they regret it and make up a story to make it sound like it was not really their fault. It was that demon rum that made them do it. Oldest excuse in the book.


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## TheTruthHurts

I do agree with @Vinnydee but have never had a problem.

Mate guarding is what it's called when you keep the flies away from your meat, and at the same time each person is responsible for themselves in not allowing OS relationships to form

I am in LTR and we are like minded in this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dyokemm

EleGirl said:


> It's very odd that she came home and just told you. Most people who cheat would hide it.


More than likely, she confessed because she came slinking back into the hotel room early in the morning and this was noticed and commented on by their mutual friend......and she knew that he would tell her BH what happened.

Friend probably asked something like, "Where the h*ll did you disappear to all night?".....and she KNEW it was going to blow up in her face.

OP.....my concern would be this.....she likely confessed because she knew she was going to be outed by your mutual friend.....

BUT....she has probably minimized what has been going on with this little POS.....told you about this 'ONS' because she knows she can't keep it hidden....

But if this crap has been going on for longer with this scumbag.....and you know at least inappropriate communication has been according to your post......there is probably much more to uncover about this A.

It could have been going on far longer and be MUCH more involved as an EA/PA....in fact, it sure sounds to me like they PLANNED to meet at this convention.

Personally.....with no kids.....I think your best bet it to file for D and kick her to the curb hard.


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## aine

Gloomy Sunday, sorry this has happened.
Many have made great points already however I am amazed at your allowance for her lack of boundaries.

I think you need to get IC first to see if you want to reconcile, she needs some sort of counselling to deal with her boundary issues and from now on no more accompany men alone anywhere, that is just asking for trouble.

Get STD tested
This may be the tip of the iceberg, she may have done it before, why she told you now, I do not know (maybe she is afraid his friends will somehow leak the information so she beat them to the punch).
Do not trust anything she says

She has to leave that job and write a no contact letter if she wants R.


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## Satya

One reason I suspect you are particularly angry, is that she is NOT demonstrating genuine remorse. 

Instead of blaming alcohol, "lack of brains," and enflared libido (due to alcohol consumption), basically redirecting blame to everything that cant be held to moral accountability standards, she needs to own up to the actual truth and cut the BS. 

*She did it because she wanted to and because she could.*

It's your choice what steps you will now take, but at a minimum she needs to agree that the convention is done forever, or that you always go with her (and why didn't you?). She needs to find a new job asap. She needs to write a NC letter under your supervision. 

Then I'd recommend Satya's "Women with Poor Boundaries with Men" starter kit (j/K, these suggestions come from half the forum):

1. "Not Just Friends" by the late Dr. Shirley Glass. 
2. "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. 
3. Ditch all male friends (unless they are MUTUAL friends to the MARRIAGE).
3. Therapy, both IC for her and MC for you both.

Have you talked with your mutual friend, the one that accompanied her, about this? Maybe you need his side of the story.


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## chillymorn69

personally, I think a revenge affair would be the only way I could get past it.

many people who took this route said it was not the answer but I don't understand why. it makes you feel bad because your no better than them they would say.


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## Tasorundo

I cannot speak for your wife, but I might be able to help with a little of what was going on in her head.

I cheated on my wife, a ONS, with a stranger, in a hotel on a business trip. That was 5 years ago. It has not happened since and did not happen before. In fact, it was never even a consideration before it happened. I told my wife the day after I got home, the first day I was home I did not see her much as she had things going on that kept her busy. I was not going to be outed by anyone, no one knew but me. However, I did love my wife very much and felt there was no way to go forward without being honest with her. Also, just in case you want to know, we are still together 5 years later.

Anyway, what happened that night was a lot of alcohol, and the whole thing almost seemed like a dream. What was happening wasn't real, it was if I was in some weird movie. Things like this do not really happen to people. I am 100% guilty and responsible for my actions, but at no time do I remember thinking about my wife or how it would hurt anyone. Mostly, because this wasn't really happening.

I was drunk, flattered, and pursued by the women that I ended up sleeping with and the whole thing seemed to take place in a matter of minutes.

I don't know if that helps at all, but I think it is important to not view it as malicious or premeditated. It could have been, but based on her actions of immediate confession, I think it is a positive sign.


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## drifting on

Gloomy

First off don't make any decisions right now, tell your wife you need six months to process what has happened. You do this so that you do not make an emotional decision. Second you wait to see how she acts, what her actions are, and if her words and actions are the same. Third you go to an attorney, file the papers for divorce, have her served listing adultery and OM as the reason. Fourth, ask her if she would trust you to continue seeing your affair partner at work. Five, tell her if she returns to work or refuses to get a different job, you will expose to her company. She must get a new job, and tell her that actions have consequences, this is only one.

Then sit her down and tell her you appreciate the fact she was honest, and that is the only reason why you have not left. Move her things into another bedroom, she will now sleep there until you make your decision. Tell her you are not leaning towards divorce of reconciliation, but her actions the next six months will be very telling. Reassure her that you are not going to go have a revenge affair, you don't put a fire out with gasoline. 

Now you can get into IC, I say to do this to work through infidelity. It's going to get much more difficult, and your anger, let's just say you haven't even come close to what it will be at three months. That's about when rage hits, people see me as a very calm man, my garage doesn't reflect that. You are going to get in her face, you are going to be upset when she is around her male friends, because now you know she's capable. Tell her that her male friends she can now get together with only when you are present. If she asks why, simple, she is capable. She will hate that answer, but you need to say it so she understands her poor boundaries. 

Trust right now is gone, so you now trust but verify. She will feel like you are her warden, but all you say is you are capable. This is a consequence to her, and for six months, one she won't like. If she gets defensive, tell her she is not allowed. She is hopefully going to reach humble and remorseful. 

Don't be mean or cruel, be honest, and tell her your emotions. One thing I kept saying to my wife was this, how do you just give yourself away? This hits them to their core when they are remorseful, right now I see your wife as regretful. Had she immediately told you and said she quit her job, I would see that as becoming remorseful. She would have quit because she wouldn't want to inflict more pain on you. But more importantly, she is understanding and feeling that pain of you so she took an action and quit. There's a big difference between regret and remorse.

Best of luck to you, but she needs to quit her job before she ever goes back.


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## StillSearching

Be aware once that line has been crossed it does not exist anymore. Ever.
She needs to quit ASAP!
Suffer the financial loss or suffer the emotional torment of another hookup. It will happen again if she's still working there.


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## Taxman

First, she leaves the job immediately. If she balks, tell her that HR is to be contacted and both will lose their jobs. Second, she needs consequences: She had an affair, everyone finds out. She needs to bear some shame and consequences of her actions.She should be made to leave the house for a period as she needs consequences for her actions.

A final suggestion, and one that usually gets me deep in trouble. In your case, I would tell her that as a consequence of her actions, you are going to be having at least a one night stand, with someone other than her. Watch that realization sweep across her face, when she understands that she is going to have to accept that you will have sex with someone other than her. It is a sobering, if not frightening realization that your actions drove your partner to step outside as well.

I had an affair. I wanted reconciliation, much as your wife is desperate to have, my wife had conditions: I was to go into therapy, we went into marriage counselling, and finally, she wanted to, in her words, "go on a date" with someone other than myself. A week later, she let me know in detail that she had gone on a date with a man she worked with, he bought her a drink, took her to a motel and did the deed. She went into it coldly, with no emotion. She was on a mission. Mission accomplished. She made me feel exactly how she felt. My balls felt as if she had sawed them off with a rusty knife. I felt like you, op, feel right now. She wanted me to experience the pain that she was experiencing. I have heard of men that stood in front of their cheating wife, and told them point blank that they were going to make a date on Tinder, then do so, have sex, and then return to their cheating wife and tell them point blank NOW WE ARE EVEN. That is what you should do, get even.


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## ihatethis

Vinnydee said:


> Wow, *I would never be OK with my wife having male friends*. When it comes to sex I do not trust anyone. My ex fiance cheated on me with a friend who was supposed to take care of her while I was in combat. He took care of her alright. Another ex girlfriend cheated on me with my another friend in a different State though. My best friend since grammar schools wife was allowed to have male friends. She had sex with one of her male friends. I went to a conference with a married women in my company and she spent the week trying to get me in bed after she had a few drinks in her. She would actually call me in my hotel room to tell me what she wanted to do to me. No way.
> 
> Did you consider that your wife did have sex with your friend and was just making up this other guy to avoid a conflict with him. Many cheaters feel a lot of guilt and they think it is a good idea to alleviate their guilt by turning their spouse's world upside down. It is actually a selfish act since it makes them get rid of their guilt by hurting someone they There is never any upside to confess. For some reason people think that confessing will be better than resolving never to do it again and not destroy their spouse's life and trust in them. Trust takes a very long time to regain and even then, it will never be the same. Hey Hon, I had sex with someone else but don't you just love that I was honest about it by telling you so I could stop feeling guilty about it.
> 
> Take a look at this to determine your chances to save the marriage. Keep one thing in mind, how you react will let her know the consequences should she do it again. Once A Cheater, Always A Cheater? Marriage Therapists Weigh In | HuffPost


I would never be ok with someone telling me if I can be friends with the opposite sex or not. I have many guy friends, but I also have never once in my life cheated in a relationship, nor would I. Not all humans that are friends with the opposite sex will cheat.

OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Tasorundo said:


> I cannot speak for your wife, but I might be able to help with a little of what was going on in her head.
> 
> I cheated on my wife, a ONS, with a stranger, in a hotel on a business trip. That was 5 years ago. It has not happened since and did not happen before. In fact, it was never even a consideration before it happened. I told my wife the day after I got home, the first day I was home I did not see her much as she had things going on that kept her busy. I was not going to be outed by anyone, no one knew but me. However, I did love my wife very much and felt there was no way to go forward without being honest with her. Also, just in case you want to know, we are still together 5 years later.
> 
> Anyway, what happened that night was a lot of alcohol, and the whole thing almost seemed like a dream. What was happening wasn't real, it was if I was in some weird movie. Things like this do not really happen to people. I am 100% guilty and responsible for my actions, but at no time do I remember thinking about my wife or how it would hurt anyone. Mostly, because this wasn't really happening.
> 
> I was drunk, flattered, and pursued by the women that I ended up sleeping with and the whole thing seemed to take place in a matter of minutes.
> 
> I don't know if that helps at all, but I think it is important to not view it as malicious or premeditated. It could have been, but based on her actions of immediate confession, I think it is a positive sign.


I agree with this. What happened is terrible, but how she is handling it is good. She isn't hiding anything and is remorseful. You have a long history with her and it sounds like this could easily be the one and only time that she has cheated. 

I also go to conferences on the road. There is drinking and partying. One night we had a party in our room and the night ended with me, my roommate and a very attractive woman. She asked to spend the night as it was 3:30am when the party ended. She slept on my bed with me. I am pretty sure that I could have had sex with her if I wanted to, but I didn't. But I can certainly see how it could happen.

I agree with her quitting her job if this guy works there. She is going to have to help you to trust her again. It is going to be very hard. Only you know if your relationship/history is worth the work.


----------



## Dannip

Hi.
I would ask this male friend of yours "what the hell happened during this trip". Then shut the hell up and listen. Say nothing else. Regardless of response say nothing else and hang up. 

Check your wife's cell phone and emails.


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## badmemory

OP,

You should strongly suspect three things about this.

- The reason your wife told you was because she felt there was a good possibility you would find out. It's probably water cooler gossip by now at her work place. *Rarely* does a WS confess just out of remorse. 

- That this was pre-planned. 

- That this is not the first time she's cheated, especially given your "loose" marital boundaries.


----------



## VladDracul

ihatethis said:


> I would never be ok with someone telling me if I can be friends with the opposite sex or not. I have many guy friends, but I also have never once in my life cheated in a relationship, nor would I. Not all humans that are friends with the opposite sex will cheat.



I'd bet you're not going on trips and sleeping in the same room with them either. By her own admission, this girl will do other guys.


----------



## Steve1000

Roselyn said:


> You're only 40ish and I'm 59 years old. I wouldn't take that type of behavior from my husband if he did this. No children in your marriage. None in mine by choice and I would divorce and split our assets. I deserve better than an unremorseful, drunken, and horney spouse. You're young enough to find a woman who deserves you. Your choice to stay or divorce.


I did not get the impression that she was not remorseful. The told him everything the very next morning, shared her passwords with OP, and then stopped all communication with the other guy. She did not gas-light him like was usually happens in other cases of infidelity. Like all marriage infidelity, this act of betrayal is ugly and destructive to the OP and his marriage. However, as far as infidelity stories go, this OP has one of the more remorseful spouses.


----------



## straightshooter

badmemory said:


> OP,
> 
> *You should strongly suspect three things about this.
> 
> - The reason your wife told you was because she felt there was a good possibility you would find out. It's probably water cooler gossip by now at her work place. Rarely does a WS confess just out of remorse.
> 
> - That this was pre-planned.
> 
> - That this is not the first time she's cheated, especially given your "loose" marital boundaries.*




If your so called buddy was not also tapping your wife he would have been worried sick when by herself she just disappeared all night. You know damm well she had this planned and my first question to my buddy would be after I took my hands off his neck would be "Where the hell were you ???"

And as a last little thought, having your wife go share a hotel room with another man is about a stupid as I have read here. You can't afford separate rooms. ???? If he is threatening to rat her out and if that was what caused the confession, that means he has been banging her also. This is just a bit bizarre.

just saying.


----------



## Steve1000

sokillme said:


> Most affairs are not usually one time deals, so it is important to take what cheaters say with a grain of salt. Cheaters lie, it is a part of their nature. They are very good at it, and usually have years of practice even before they cheat.


That's true, but this man's wife actually came out and told her husband what happened. Why would she suddenly be open about this instance if she has cheated multiple times before?


----------



## ihatethis

VladDracul said:


> I'd bet you're not going on trips and sleeping in the same room with them either. By her own admission, this girl will do other guys.


No, I'm not. But I wasn't commenting on that. If I had cheated or whatever, then yes... but if I have never done anything wrong, then no one would tell me who I can and cannot be friends with, especially if it's 100% innocent.


----------



## turnera

EleGirl said:


> It's very odd that she came home and just told you. Most people who cheat would hide it.


Which is why I say that, in the world of infidelity, ranking 1 (mild) to 10 (serial cheater), I'd give it a 1. 

Yeah, it hurt like hell. But I see no reason to think she's done it before. Or will ever do it again. And she told you immediately. 

Yeah, she let herself be vulnerable by drinking. Drunk people do stupid things. He'd probably been planning to work on her for some time. 

If I were you, I'd use this time to take a good look at your marriage, fix any issues you see, strengthen your work together as a team, and let her make it up to you. If you see any sign that she doesn't feel guilt or want to make it up to you, THEN go ballistic. 

Oh, and give the little sh*t coworker a visit.


----------



## Yeswecan

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Today I got a response from her that the reason she did what she did was “I was drunk, horny and stupid, what else could I say, there is no justification or satisfactory answer as to why I did what I did and it will never happen again."


Sorry you are in this mess. Are you satisfied with this response and can live with it? What is to stop it next time?

Your W needs to quit her job.


----------



## badmemory

Steve1000 said:


> That's true, but this man's wife actually came out and told her husband what happened. Why would she suddenly be open about this instance if she has cheated multiple times before?


To attempt to minimize it before he found out; by trying to convince him it was a one time drunken mistake.


----------



## Yeswecan

Thound said:


> I could be wrong. I guess there is a first time for anything, but I think she was looking to get laid, and may have had deep remorse afterwards.


I don't think you are wrong at all. OP W had thoughts about sex with OM. Why else ditch your friend who attends these things for the past 8 years??? The alcohol proved to allow inhibitions to disappear. 

I don't buy the drunken ONS and just happend.


----------



## Steve1000

badmemory said:


> To attempt to minimize it before he found out; by trying to convince him it was a one time drunken mistake.


Yes, that is a possibility, but in my opinion until other evidence comes out, she is open and remorseful because this was the first time.


----------



## badmemory

ihatethis said:


> No, I'm not. But I wasn't commenting on that. If I had cheated or whatever, then yes... but if I have never done anything wrong, then no one would tell me who I can and cannot be friends with, especially if it's 100% innocent.


I used to feel that way too.

Funny how being a betrayed spouse can change your perspective on marital boundaries.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Yeswecan said:


> I don't think you are wrong at all. OP W had thoughts about sex with OM. Why else ditch your friend who attends these things for the past 8 years??? The alcohol proved to allow inhibitions to disappear.
> 
> I don't buy the drunken ONS and just happend.


I sense they both had thoughts otherwise he would have not invited her, she would not have accepted, and as it was they both were left in the end with it intended to end like that.

If I was in the OP's shoes I too would question the level of previous involvement... that is why she needs to leave that job, like yesterday.

Like @turnera said... an eyes-locked-in visit with the worker could tell many things, but doubt in what has been may be elusive if collaboration is deeper.

I too wonder if it didn't become exposed and now damage control is in full effect... suffering embraced.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

badmemory said:


> Funny how being a betrayed spouse can change your perspective on marital boundaries.


Isn't this the truth... I don't think it's ever overcome fully.

I still feel triggers try to rise after 34 years of an ex who wandered.


----------



## badmemory

Steve1000 said:


> Yes, that is a possibility, but in my opinion *until other evidence comes out*, she is open and remorseful because this was the first time.


*If *she's telling the truth, it's a positive that she confessed. But believing everything she says at this point is not a best practice. I'd do everything I could to find that evidence.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Good advice, but I am going to add one thing. No, it isn't all that weird she told you what happen. If the other guy is really your friend, he may have DEMANDED "Tell your husband before I do." Another scenario, she freaked out because she thought he would tell you on his own without confronting her. I tell you this so, you don't hang your hat on her truth and then get laid flat with a new revelation later. Yes, this has happened quite a few times on this board. Spouse comes clean, the betrayed uses this as true honesty and they get blindsided by another related revelation later on in reconciliation.


----------



## Yeswecan

Steve1000 said:


> Yes, that is a possibility, but in my opinion until other evidence comes out, she is open and remorseful because this was the first time.


I suspect the first time as well but this was premeditated by OP W in my opinion.


----------



## Steve1000

badmemory said:


> *If *she's telling the truth, it's a positive that she confessed. But believing everything she says at this point is not a best practice. I'd do everything I could to find that evidence.


Definitely! I would definitely be looking for more evidence. Investigating can also be a way to build back trust. I learn to trust my wife again because I investigated long enough to determine that there was nothing inappropriate going on.


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## TheTruthHurts

ihatethis said:


> I would never be ok with someone telling me if I can be friends with the opposite sex or not. I have many guy friends, but I also have never once in my life cheated in a relationship, nor would I. Not all humans that are friends with the opposite sex will cheat.
> 
> 
> 
> OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you.




Of course that's your choice. I would never be ok with someone who felt it was ok to maintain OS relationships that I was not a part of. It crosses boundaries for me, my w, and probably the majority of people on TAM.

It's not about cheating, per se. It can also be about having respect for your SO and avoiding situations that cause them anxiety. If they love you and find you attractive, they are inclined to believe others share those perceptions. 

And I believe it is good marital practice to always be skeptical of the values and motives of others outside your relationship. Just because you and your SO aren't inclined to be unfaithful doesn't mean others share those values.

It's also good (IMO) to assume that good, honest people are often easier targets for predators because they tend to be more trusting - or at least not inclined to think of all the possible nefarious deeds and thoughts less trustworthy people are capable of.

In the case of OP, we have a young man with no scruples who seduces a much older coworker. Could be she deduced him... but I suspect he was playing her for a while, flattering her with his attention. So to her, was he just a really nice, genuine guy? That's the ploy for happily married women - for less happy a predictor can be anything the H isn't and drill into the emotions of a vulnerable person.

But if you are aware that YOU can be played, even by someone you think is just a friend, then you're more likely to want to resist OS friendships that don't involve your SO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TAMAT

My thoughts...

There is much more than she has revealed, it's likely that something has happened which has made it difficult to continue to hide.

-The OM has been discovered by his GF or Wife.

-The affair is an open secret at work and has become too big.

- The OM is reckless and has put photos on social media.

- The OM got what he wanted after much flirting, kissing, petting and emotional involvement and then dumped your Wife.

Tamat


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## michzz

As others have written, I would be very leery about what exactly she has told to you about the events of that night and about her activities generally.

You really only have her word on that. It seems that she volunteered "something" to you. It could be the truth, it could be a piece of the truth, it could be a cover story, etc.

You cannot trust her at this point. Except for one thing, you know that she has strayed. The nature of it will shake out over a period of time. It's called "trickle truth."

Let me give you my own life experience with this.

My ex-wife fessed up to a "one-time" thing about 3 months "after" it happened. She had gone for "coffee" with a guy from the apartments she managed. She was emphatic that he was just a "friend" and how dare you question the mother of your children's faithfulness, etc.

It turns out that she had been banging him for awhile already even before that awful night.

AND she continued for most of the next decade in secret.

She was very good at deception and I was a complete idiot and easily deceived.

It took another 8 years before i finally woke up and ended the marriage after getting a fuller idea of the scope of her affair.

She gave me an STD (HPV) that has me dealing with throat cancer all these years later. I divorced her way too late.

So, what I want to tell you is that you need to get checked for STDs, as does your wife. Some will seem trivial, but are not (read up on HPV-related cancers).

Read up on the true expression of remorse, gaslighting, and trickle truth.

Take time for yourself to process this attack on your marriage. Do NOT get violent. If you feel agitated, walk away from her.

Consult with a lawyer to find out your options whether or not you pull the plug on this marriage.

Consult with a good marriage counselor. The first one you find may not be it, btw.

Good luck.


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## Steve1000

Yeswecan said:


> I suspect the first time as well but this was premeditated by OP W in my opinion.


My guess is premeditated for a handful of hours because she picked up a cue the the OM was attracted to her.


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## phillybeffandswiss

If we are guessing this isn't the first incident, but this time something happened where she might get caught.


----------



## ihatethis

TheTruthHurts said:


> Of course that's your choice. I would never be ok with someone who felt it was ok to maintain OS relationships that I was not a part of. It crosses boundaries for me, my w, and probably the majority of people on TAM.
> 
> It's not about cheating, per se. It can also be about having respect for your SO and avoiding situations that cause them anxiety. If they love you and find you attractive, they are inclined to believe others share those perceptions.
> 
> And I believe it is good marital practice to always be skeptical of the values and motives of others outside your relationship. Just because you and your SO aren't inclined to be unfaithful doesn't mean others share those values.
> 
> It's also good (IMO) to assume that good, honest people are often easier targets for predators because they tend to be more trusting - or at least not inclined to think of all the possible nefarious deeds and thoughts less trustworthy people are capable of.
> 
> In the case of OP, we have a young man with no scruples who seduces a much older coworker. Could be she deduced him... but I suspect he was playing her for a while, flattering her with his attention. So to her, was he just a really nice, genuine guy? That's the ploy for happily married women - for less happy a predictor can be anything the H isn't and drill into the emotions of a vulnerable person.
> 
> But if you are aware that YOU can be played, even by someone you think is just a friend, then you're more likely to want to resist OS friendships that don't involve your SO
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm 100% not saying it's okay to have a private and secretive relationships with any person. However, do I have friends that are males that I've been friends with for years, before my SO, yes. Do I hide them from my SO, no. I wouldn't be with my SO if he were to tell me I cannot be friends with them, just because they are males. 

As far as the OP goes, she clearly does not know how to set boundaries, and going forward, I would absolutely 100% not trust her with the opposite sex for friendships.


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## Edmund

Hey Gloomy,
I usually look for possible R but you have no children and are still young. File for divorce. Move her out if possible. I agree with the suspicions of other commenters here that: 1) she pre-planned this; 2) the affair has been going on before this; 3) she rushed to tell you (5:30AM? Really?) before someone else does; 4) it is worse than she has told you; 5) she regrets being caught but is not feeling remorseful or guilty; 6) she probably has other commuincations channels that she has not given you the password for. Dump her. Have your revenge affair if you want, your marriage is toast. But people on this forum who have done the revenge affair sometimes say getting even makes them feel worse. People do get drunk withouit betraying their spouse. Unlike men, women usually don't get horny for members of the opposite sex unless they already have a relationship with them. Sorry, this will not make you less gloomy. It is a damn shame this stuff happens to good nice people.
This is just an opinion and you are free to ignore it. I don't know either of you, only have your viewpoint in this thread to go on, and I could be completely wrong about all this. It is just my reaction.


----------



## drifting on

Gloomy

Since this is a workplace affair, how much time have your wife and OM spent together at work? You say if she returns it will be roughly ten minutes a day. You need to find this out, and as @turnera says pay a little visit. I would do this before your wife returns to work and without her knowledge. Just call him (get is number from wife's phone), tell him you would like to meet for lunch. He most likely won't answer, but your message should be this. "Hi OM, I'm wife's husband, I've been wanting to have lunch with you to confirm my wife's story about the sex you had at so and so seminar. I know you probably do not want to meet with me, however I need to know what happened. Now you may think you don't need to call me back or even meet with me, this would be an even larger bad choice then it was to have sex with my wife. Oh, and if you think of calling or contacting my wife in any way, if you decide not to meet with me, well then things will go from worse to destroyed. Here is my number, I expect a call by three pm today, if not, then tomorrow morning you will see first hand the destruction coming your way. I am not threatening any bodily harm to you or anyone you even know, what I will do is reduce your lifestyle to that of a rat. Talk to you soon"!!

Gloomy you need the full truth, especially if you are choosing reconciliation. You are correct in saying no answer to why will suffice to you. There is no answer truthfully. You need to know the relationship between your wife and coworker (OM), how much time spent together. This will give you insight as to how she went from ditching her friend and ending up having sex. 

Then you need to speak with the mutual friend she went with. Did he know, did he see anything, did she return to her room that night, was he going to tell you if he knew? Your wife confessed for a reason, knowing this reason would benefit you. I'd like to hope that it's because she is starting to feel guilty and maybe some remorse, but if it's because she thought you may be told, that's not good. I will say I give her credit for telling you regardless, that credit could go from ten to one quickly though.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

ihatethis said:


> I'm 100% not saying it's okay to have a private and secretive relationships with any person. However, do I have friends that are males that I've been friends with for years, before my SO, yes. Do I hide them from my SO, no. I wouldn't be with my SO if he were to tell me I cannot be friends with them, just because they are males.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the OP goes, she clearly does not know how to set boundaries, and going forward, I would absolutely 100% not trust her with the opposite sex for friendships.




Out of curiosity, does your SO usually accompany you when you are with your male friends? Do you ever go out one on one with the male friends?

To me there is a big difference between friends of a couple and OS friends of one person in a relationship. My experience with successful LTR is that couples adopt the individual partner's friends, and going forward they are friends of the couple.

The SO need not be a close friend but they should always feel welcome around the 3rd party.

When one person is uncomfortable with an OS friend of their SO, every successful LTR couple I know of voluntarily discontinued the relationship.

Your attitude seems to say "you can't tell me what to do!" And in fact you almost used that phrase twice. This isn't about controlling your SO. it's about controlling your SELF

OP I don't think this is s thread jack - I think it goes to the heart of the matter. If your WS is truly remorseful, she would empathize with your pain; realize that she can never be alone with an OS person (until absolute trust is rebuilt, if ever); and realize that even having OS friends is going to trigger you because you now know she can and has cheated. She should feel the anxiety, hurt, humiliation and all the other feelings you are feeling, and absolutely NOT want to do that to you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Herschel

A lot of action for a one and done guy. Hope he is reading and planning on posting again.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

drifting on said:


> Gloomy
> 
> Since this is a workplace affair, how much time have your wife and OM spent together at work? You say if she returns it will be roughly ten minutes a day. You need to find this out, and as @turnera says pay a little visit. I would do this before your wife returns to work and without her knowledge. Just call him (get is number from wife's phone), tell him you would like to meet for lunch. He most likely won't answer, but your message should be this. "Hi OM, I'm wife's husband, I've been wanting to have lunch with you to confirm my wife's story about the sex you had at so and so seminar. I know you probably do not want to meet with me, however I need to know what happened. Now you may think you don't need to call me back or even meet with me, this would be an even larger bad choice then it was to have sex with my wife. Oh, and if you think of calling or contacting my wife in any way, if you decide not to meet with me, well then things will go from worse to destroyed. Here is my number, I expect a call by three pm today, if not, then tomorrow morning you will see first hand the destruction coming your way. I am not threatening any bodily harm to you or anyone you even know, what I will do is reduce your lifestyle to that of a rat. Talk to you soon"!!
> 
> Gloomy you need the full truth, especially if you are choosing reconciliation. You are correct in saying no answer to why will suffice to you. There is no answer truthfully. You need to know the relationship between your wife and coworker (OM), how much time spent together. This will give you insight as to how she went from ditching her friend and ending up having sex.
> 
> Then you need to speak with the mutual friend she went with. Did he know, did he see anything, did she return to her room that night, was he going to tell you if he knew? Your wife confessed for a reason, knowing this reason would benefit you. I'd like to hope that it's because she is starting to feel guilty and maybe some remorse, but if it's because she thought you may be told, that's not good. I will say I give her credit for telling you regardless, that credit could go from ten to one quickly though.


Solid advice. If it were me I would expose to HR. Additionally, I think a polygraph would be beneficial to ensure there were no other such instances. As I have told other posters, she needs to feel your pain. There has to be some consequences. I think there is more here than meets the eye. Be vigilant.


----------



## Jessica38

GusPolinski said:


> She gets a new job ASAP or you file for divorce.
> 
> No half measures, no middle ground.
> 
> If OM is married or has a girlfriend (do your research), expose the tryst to her as well.


This. I'd also recommend following the checklist in Surviving an Affair, which includes scheduling a polygraph and implementing extraordinary precautions to keep this from happening again. Cheaters are known to trickle-truth and you don't really know the extent of her relationship with the OM.


----------



## turnera

TheTruthHurts said:


> Could be she seduced him... but I suspect he was playing her for a while, flattering her with his attention. So to her, was he just a really nice, genuine guy? That's the ploy for happily married women - for less happy a predictor can be anything the H isn't and drill into the emotions of a vulnerable person.
> 
> But if you are aware that YOU can be played, even by someone you think is just a friend, then you're more likely to want to resist OS friendships that don't involve your SO


Reading the Spenser novel The Professional right now - about a middle-age, handsome man whose sole profession is meeting women and seducing them. Not that hard, if you seek out the people you see a weakness in. In his case, usually younger women married to older rich men. All it takes, according to him, is actually seeming like you really enjoy what they have to say. As opposed to a spouse who, frankly, just takes you for granted after X years. Like almost all of us do. It's human nature to take your spouse for granted, so when some guy steps in and starts talking to you and laughs at what you say or compliments your looks or listens to your story...it becomes quite heady. You start seeing him in a 'good' light. And don't even realize you're doing it. You smile when you think of him. 

I'm not justifying what she did. I'm saying it's not that hard to set someone up for an event in which you can find yourself in that position.


----------



## sokillme

Steve1000 said:


> That's true, but this man's wife actually came out and told her husband what happened. Why would she suddenly be open about this instance if she has cheated multiple times before?


First thought, her friend presented her with an ultimatum. Maybe it's true, all I am saying is not to trust her word, her character is now in question.


----------



## ihatethis

TheTruthHurts said:


> Out of curiosity, does your SO usually accompany you when you are with your male friends? Do you ever go out one on one with the male friends?
> 
> To me there is a big difference between friends of a couple and OS friends of one person in a relationship. My experience with successful LTR is that couples adopt the individual partner's friends, and going forward they are friends of the couple.
> 
> The SO need not be a close friend but they should always feel welcome around the 3rd party.
> 
> When one person is uncomfortable with an OS friend of their SO, every successful LTR couple I know of voluntarily discontinued the relationship.
> 
> Your attitude seems to say "you can't tell me what to do!" And in fact you almost used that phrase twice. This isn't about controlling your SO. it's about controlling your SELF
> 
> OP I don't think this is s thread jack - I think it goes to the heart of the matter. If your WS is truly remorseful, she would empathize with your pain; realize that she can never be alone with an OS person (until absolute trust is rebuilt, if ever); and realize that even having OS friends is going to trigger you because you now know she can and has cheated. She should feel the anxiety, hurt, humiliation and all the other feelings you are feeling, and absolutely NOT want to do that to you
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have I gone out with my male friends with out my SO, yes, but not because I didn't want my SO other there, but because he couldn't make it. 

I most certainly can control myself, which is why I am okay with having male friends and have never cheated. If I was someone who had the tendency to lose control (OP's wife) I would not put myself in those situations.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

ihatethis said:


> Have I gone out with my male friends with out my SO, yes, but not because I didn't want my SO other there, but because he couldn't make it.
> 
> 
> 
> I most certainly can control myself, which is why I am okay with having male friends and have never cheated. If I was someone who had the tendency to lose control (OP's wife) I would not put myself in those situations.




OP never said his WW had that tendency - in fact, quite the opposite and she was much like you.

Either she's lying and has cheated in the past, or she's like you and was so sure she wouldn't cheat that she did not protect herself.

You sound young to me for some reason - perhaps your defiant attitude. And although I have total control as does my W, neither of us if foolish enough to believe infidelity is impossible.

Every day smart people are taken in by scammers and fraudsters. Does that mean they're weak or stupid? I don't think so, but I know smart people can make mistakes, and so can honest people.

Good luck to you, and more importantly your partner or future partner 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Steve1000

sokillme said:


> Maybe it's true, all I am saying is not to trust her word, her character is now in question.


Yes, and will be in question for at least a few years. Wherever his wife lies on the remorse spectrum, OP's world has been turned upside down and is going through something now that I wouldn't wish on anyone.


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## harrybrown

OP-

hope you are still here. Sorry for your pain.

She did this because she wanted to have sex with him.

She planned it. She is a big girl and knew what happened and what would happen. This may not be the first time. She is not a your little girl.

This could be an exit A. Whatever she did, she was selfish. 

To many, infidelity is a deal breaker. You do not have kids. She has given you a horrible gift. Is she pregnant? Does she have stds?

You do not know. She loved the sex. She has been planning this for some time. Cut your losses. File for D and let her go to her young stud.

She wants him and does not want you. When was the last time she did something really nice for you? The sex she had was the best she has ever had. 

She did not tell you that she also had another male involved in the action. You can't compete with the A sex. 

Why did she not tell you she wanted an open marriage before she acted? She is addicted to the sex with these other guys and she can't quit.

Go see your attorney today. She does not know how bad this hurts. 

the only thing worse is having my former daughter in law do this to my son. He has been in pain for years. He only caught her sitting on the lap of her co-worker at the " work party".

They were the only ones at the work party. Ihelped him get his D.


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## WonkyNinja

Roselyn said:


> She is 100% responsible for her infidelity. *She needs to stop slumming with men and sleeping in rooms other than with her husband.* She played with fire and got burned. I've been married for 37 years (first time for the both of us) and a career woman in all of those years. When travelling for work, I always stay in my own room. Your place of work reimburses you for expenses in conferences and if not, you can deduct it from your taxes.
> 
> You're only 40ish and I'm 59 years old. I wouldn't take that type of behavior from my husband if he did this. No children in your marriage. None in mine by choice and I would divorce and split our assets. I deserve better than an unremorseful, drunken, and horney spouse. You're young enough to find a woman who deserves you. Your choice to stay or divorce.


The sharing the room was completely irrelevant in this case. This goes to show that someone who is going to cheat is going to cheat. If she'd had her own room nothing different would have happened.


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## NoChoice

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Today I got a response from her that the reason she did what she did was “*I was drunk, horny and stupid*, what else could I say, there is no justification or satisfactory answer as to why I did what I did and it will never happen again."


OP,
This is as pure as the truth will ever get and it is the most accurate answer as well. As each of us processes thought there is a complex set of variables that allow us to arrive at a decision. For instance, when you see a beautiful woman there are initial thoughts of attraction, then the mind introduces additional variables such as she is a stranger, she may be married, I am married, what is her personality and a flood of others.

As the mind begins to process these thoughts there are certain overriding givens that come into play for some individuals such as I took a vow, I gave my word, my honor and integrity have great value to me, I cannot inflict that devastation on her H because I certainly would not want that done to me, How will this affect my wife/family, her family, along with many others. It is this complex interplay of thought that allows us to make the "right" decision. 

Now, for a moment, try and think of all the thoughts that allow you to arrive at any given "conclusion" and you will realize what an intricate and complex series of thoughts have to be executed for every "choice" we make. 

Now try and imagine what would happen if one of those thoughts did not occur. It would probably not affect the resultant "choice" significantly. How about two, three, a dozen, what if half of those thoughts did not enter the mind. Could a "right choice" still be made? What if three quarters of those thoughts were absent? Do you think the outcome would still be positive?

Based on a persons intellect, this is exactly what happens. The more "stupid", or lacking in intellect, a person is the greater the probability of their making the "wrong" choice or, more accurately stated, the less chance they have to make the "right" choice. So you see, once enough of the necessary thoughts are absent, the person is then relegated to a very limited number of outcomes. Now factor in instinctual urges and desires and the mind simply does not have the cognitive ability to use reason and logic to make the right choice so, in essence, they have no choice.

Now if an individual has just enough mental ability to make the "right" choice in most situations what happens when alcohol is introduced and the cognitive ability is depressed? Normally, there may be just enough of the necessary thoughts being processed to sustain that person but when the alcohol eliminates a number of those, tipping the balance, the person then becomes subject to being led by urges and desires more so than by reason and logic and their resultant behavior exemplifies this lack of thought.

So you see, her answer was accurate. Now as to it never happening again, that is solely dependent on her cognitive ability, not so much in regard to not sleeping with another but rather not allowing the balance of thought in her mind to be influenced by alcohol. This is highly problematic and a difficult line to establish. I would recommend that she refrain from all alcohol unless accompanied by you but that is for you two to decide. I hope this gives you some understanding as to why you find yourself here.

If you R or D I wish you strength and good fortune.


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## Dannip

Hmmmm...

I'm not so certain she was drunk. 

Check her phone, emails, computer history, social media. Everything. Deleted items folders, sent mail folders. Everything.


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## WorkingOnMe

Drive by. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turnera

harrybrown said:


> She loved the sex.


You do not know this.



> She has been planning this for some time.


You do not know this.



> She wants him and does not want you.


You do not know this.



> The sex she had was the best she has ever had.


Yo do not know this.



> She did not tell you that she also had another male involved in the action.


What?



> Why did she not tell you she wanted an open marriage before she acted? She is addicted to the sex with *these other guys* and *she can't quit*.


Say what?!


----------



## Young at Heart

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Two weeks ago, my wife went on a long weekend trip....
> 
> ....it was someone who she worked with who was about half her age. She has been working with the male culprit for about a year and *knew he would be at the same event she was attending*.
> 
> ....She told me that the day it happened, she was intoxicated and ditched our mutual friend to wander around.
> 
> ...The male culprit texted her to go to his hotel room to hang with his friends and have some drinks so she went.
> 
> ....As the night wore on, people left the room leaving her alone with him.
> 
> .....One thing led to another and they wound up sleeping together.
> 
> 
> ...She told me that after the deed was done, she was upset and told him that she was going to tell me what happened because her life was over. He asked her not to tell me, but she said that she could not hide this from me.
> 
> 
> ...What really infuriates me about the whole thing is how *she put herself in such a situation.*
> 
> The other factor is why did it have to go to that extreme for her to realize that what she did was wrong? Why didn't she stop this once the culprit started kissing her? Why didn't she stop this when clothing was being removed? Why didn't she stop this when foreplay was engaged? etc, etc... Was there some kind of moral disconnect or was she enjoying herself so much that ruining our lives was the last thing on her mind?
> 
> She has apologized and is remorseful (???) about what happened. She has cut off all communication with this person and given me passwords to social media, smart phone, etc...
> 
> ....Today I got a response from her that the reason she did what she did was “I was drunk, horny and stupid, what else could I say, there is no justification or satisfactory answer as to why I did what I did and it will never happen again."
> 
> ...There is no doubt that we still love each other and want to make this work, but I don't know what lies ahead.
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.


First she know what she was doing on a subconscious level every step of the way. She was testing herself.
She failed the test., because she wanted to fail the test.

There is an old saying about when does an affair start. Some say it starts when people get naked and jump into bed. A better answer is that an affair starts when one person lets down their guard to always protect their marriage. She let down her guard multiple times. 

It started when she know the young stud would be at the same event. It progressed when she went to the event. Then she moved farther into the affair, when she ditched her chaperone. She further contributed by being intoxicated and by going to his room to drink more. 

This was not a rash act of the moment, it required a lot of thought.

She probably did shock herself, but she needs to understand what she did.

She failed her own test and regrets it now.


If it were my wife who did this, I would tell her we are separating and she is moving to some other place until we have had sufficient marriage counseling to see if we want to start a new marriage together, as she ended the old marriage and it can never be the same.

Good luck.


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## Gloomy Sunday

Thank you all for your responses. It is really helping me to process some of the emotions that I'm going through. Please know that I have read everything and am thinking about all the comments that have been made. I will respond to some of the posts in the coming days, but right now I am overwhelmed by the current state of things and trying to process what has happened along with your feedback. 

Thank you again for all of the comments.


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## BobSimmons

*I was drunk, horny and stupid*


Finally a WW that tells the truth. This is it and exactly it.

Your problem is that it's now your problem.

Your wife will have to deal with the anger etc but you will either have to just get over it or not, thing is she was horny so she got banged, she knew where everything was leading and she went ahead and did it. You can go to all the counselling you like but it boils down to she wanted to get banged.

Another problem is now you know she wanted to get banged, and if you stay she will have essentially got away with it, knowing that you know she wanted to get banged, every trip away, every night out will now have the added element of what is she doing now.

I wish you luck pal. You're going to need it.


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## Radch1988

You can reconcile. That's a fact. What is also a fact is that you must both be committed to it. 

Quitting her job would certainly be a step in the right direction as at this point it's not words you need, it's actions. Anyone can say sorry I messed up but real remorse and love means actions buddy. 

It's a long tough road, that's for sure and trust is gonna take a long time but it can work, just know that your relationship has forever changed from this moment onwards. 

I know it's a cliche but you have to take it one day at a time, don't make any big decisions yet, you need to cool of and sort your head out. 

I feel obliged to give you this advice because I have been in almost the exact same position with my wife cheating with coworker - she wouldn't quit her job. We are now getting divorced. It took 6 months to reach this decision but I'm no longer going insane with wondering what she is up to at work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator

*An affair starts when two people start covertly acting and behaving in such a way toward each other that they would otherwise act and behave with their legitimate spouse!

Getting naked and performing sexual accoutrements with their affair partner is only the physiological/psychological solidification of the emotional bond that has heretofore been illegitimately created between the two cheaters, consummating their newfound but otherwise deceptive relationship with each other!

She knew exactly what it was that she was doing! Alcohol makes doing that stuff so much easier!

IMHO, you need to know what it is that you're going to do: Like getting to a good family attorney's office to be fully advised, and to immediately file for D from such a wanton, deceptive skank! *


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## Yeswecan

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Thank you all for your responses. It is really helping me to process some of the emotions that I'm going through. Please know that I have read everything and am thinking about all the comments that have been made. I will respond to some of the posts in the coming days, but right now I am overwhelmed by the current state of things and trying to process what has happened along with your feedback.
> 
> Thank you again for all of the comments.


Take your time to process it. We are here if you need to vent.


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## BetrayedDad

Gloomy Sunday said:


> What really infuriates me about the whole thing is how she put herself in such a situation. *She's always had male friends and I've never had a problem. I allowed it*, but I've always told her to be careful who she hangs out with and she would sometimes be offended when I said that and get defensive by telling me that not every man is out to get into her pants (oh, the irony!!!).


I'm not going to blame you for her actions. But women with “lots of male friends” is just inviting trouble. You might as well just hang a bulls eye on her vagina. Men have penises and they love sticking their penises into vaginas. If you are going to allow her hang out ALONE, WITH MEN, INTOXICATED, it was only a matter of time before a Chad was going to bang her. She’s in her 40s, past the prime of her life, probably feeling sorry for herself for getting old, insecure. And a young stud comes along and offers to nail her? The ego boost must have been MONUMENTAL. How could she resist? That's a tough situation to say "no" in.



Gloomy Sunday said:


> Any advice would be appreciated.


I advocate divorce in 95% of stories I read here. Give the circumstances: drunk ONS, immediate confession, seems remorseful, and she has a spouse who will allow his wife to hang out with men alone (sharing hotel rooms, seriously?) because he has his head deep in the sand? This IS the best case scenario for reconciliation of a physical affair.

It’s up to you but I’d try to give her another chance. If you do then next time, don't be the shepherd who let's his prize sheep play with the wolves alone.


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## turnera

I once worked with a whole group of men, I was the only girl. To my face, they were all nice and respectful. I ended up marrying one of them. Before I dated him, I went out once with one of the other guys. Nothing happened - we tried to kiss and there was just no chemistry there. He was the one guy I admired most of all of them. I found out years later, from my husband, that he went back to work and told all the guys that he 'did it' with me all night long. Husband also told me that all the other guys talked about 'doing it' with me - all the time. It's what guys do.


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## drifting on

Gloomy

What you need to focus on right now is you. Breathe, try to relax and not overwhelm yourself with all that has happened. This is easy for me to say and difficult for you to do. I've been where you're at, it hurts deeply, and it will seem never ending. This is why I say to wait the six months, make your decision from a place of strength. You can also file for divorce and stop the proceedings if you wish to reconcile. I say to do this so that your wife feels a consequence to her actions. This will make it real for her, more real then just admitting the affair to you. 

How much do you know of the OM? Is he married or have a steady girlfriend? Is he your wife's boss? How often do they interact at work? Can your wife's IT department get you a printout of everyone she emails in the company? If so, how many times has she emailed OM? Is your wife suggesting or offered to quit? Does your wife know what working with OM will do to you? Is she going to stop going out with male friends unless you are with? Have you talked to your friend who was with your wife? Did he see them together? Does he know? 

You need these answers gloomy, this is how you settle your mind down. If you don't know your mind begins thinking of much worse scenarios. The roller coaster of emotions you have now boarded, this ride sucks but you will survive. I suggest you start IC for both of you, maybe MC in the future depending upon your decision. Find a trusted friend, tell him/her in confidence so you have someone to talk to. At this point the only exposure I would do is to OM's family and spouse or girlfriend. 

Try to calm yourself gloomy, many posters here will help you through.


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## GusPolinski

turnera said:


> I once worked with a whole group of men, I was the only girl. To my face, they were all nice and respectful. I ended up marrying one of them. Before I dated him, I went out once with one of the other guys. Nothing happened - we tried to kiss and there was just no chemistry there. He was the one guy I admired most of all of them. I found out years later, from my husband, that he went back to work and told all the guys that he 'did it' with me all night long. Husband also told me that all the other guys talked about 'doing it' with me - all the time. It's what guys do.


It's what *********s do.

(That's supposed to be a word that rhymes with "splooshbag".)


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## drifting on

Gloomy

When your wife confessed to you, was she upset? I mean crying, hysterical, can't speak from crying so hard? The way you wrote it was without emotion, like she said it matter of fact. When she said her life is over I'm assuming you mean her marriage is over. In the last few days, what has she done to help you? Has she now admitted more to the story or just what she originally confessed? Being a ONS, have you scheduled a polygraph to ensure nothing has happened in the last year with OM? What you are hoping for here is a parking lot confession. 

I think it's possible to reconcile, that really depends on you though, but you need more answers before you begin reconciliation.


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## Taxman

Gloomy
It is likely your WW was trying to recapture her youth. Mid-40's and stable relationship add up to, "Where is the young and desireable girl I used to be"? This is no excuse whatsoever, and in my experience is the leading cause of divorce at mid life. The drunkeness is, I am sorry to say, just an excuse for being selfish. Now, she has to pay. 

She will need some severe consequences to her actions. If this was an ONS, then Gloomy, go out and find another woman to make love to. Then let your WW know that you stepped out because she did. In fact tell her before you do so, as my wife did to me. Makes them REALLY understand because they anticipate, hope and pray that you will not go through with it, and when you do, the devastation is EXACTLY the same as when they did it to you. Make a point of having your partner be younger and prettier than your wife. 

Give her exquisite detail of everything just so she knows what happened. Then, if you feel like it, you may offer your wife reconciliation. Do not give her that gift until she has been punished. Some feel it better to have a separation before getting revenge. I say strike while the iron is hot. If this is as she said, then blindsiding her with a revenge affair will blow her world to smitherines.


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## bandit.45

ihatethis said:


> I would never be ok with someone telling me if I can be friends with the opposite sex or not. I have many guy friends, but I also have never once in my life cheated in a relationship, nor would I. Not all humans that are friends with the opposite sex will cheat.
> 
> OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you.



Marriage is a privilege, not a right. 

If this story is true, her being told what she is allowed or not allowed to do is not the issue here. She was enjoying the privilege of being married to a faithful husband while enjoying the further privilege of having male friends with her husband's blessings, and she abused that privilege. 

I think she should be willing to give up the privilege of having male friends outside her family.


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## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> Drive by.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah....something about this story isn't right.


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## arbitrator

GusPolinski said:


> It's what *********s do.
> 
> (That's supposed to be a word that rhymes with "splooshbag".)


*I wasn't acutely aware that those kind of bags were a restricted item for TAM censorship purposes!*


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## GusPolinski

arbitrator said:


> *I wasn't acutely aware that those kind of bags were a restricted item for TAM censorship purposes!*


Yeah, me either.


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## TRy

Gloomy Sunday said:


> She has been working with the male culprit for about a year and knew he would be at the same event she was attending. She told me that the day it happened, she was intoxicated and ditched our mutual friend to wander around. The male culprit texted her to go to his hotel room to hang with his friends and have some drinks so she went. As the night wore on, people left the room leaving her alone with him. One thing led to another and they wound up sleeping together.





Gloomy Sunday said:


> She tells me that he works in a different area than her and they would only see each other for maybe 10 minutes a week (for work reasons).


 So even though your wife supposedly only sees a male coworker for work reasons "maybe 10 minutes a week", she "knew he would be at the same event", she "ditched" the mutual friend, the coworker and she had each other's cell numbers, and she felt it was OK to go to this other man's (OM) hotel room to drink and hang with him. This sounds planned, and she knows the OM much better, than she is letting on. He is not the "culprit" in this, as they are both co-conspirators.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Just want to add, with all the reconciliation talk, this marriage isn't recoverable until you have more of the truth. Notice, I didn't say all, I said more. You need to find out if this is a one time thing or if it happened on multiple trips. Yes, this could be the first time she had intercourse, but people are NOTORIOUS for parsing intercourse from other sex acts. In other words, if insertion doesn't occur it isn't sex. No, not just cheaters, some people in general. We recently had a guy who said his wife cheated, but he only had oral. So, her action was a reason to divorce, but his was different.


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## ABHale

YOU can only reconcile if YOU can get past the fact that she willingly gave herself to another. 

She betrayed the marriage one year in with a younger man that she has only known for 6 months. How long have you known her?

Her excuse is bull. 

This is why women do this because they count on the others love to forgive them. 

O, I won't do it again! 

Then why in the heck did you do it to begin with. 

I would not trust a thing she says. Tell her you need time away from her. 

Cheaters will keep cheating as long as the betrayed take them back.


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## theDrifter

She was horny & he was there? But she'll never do it again? Why would you ever believe such nonsense?

No kids? Divorce her already. The living hell you are going to go through trying to reconcile is NOT worth all the pain when there are no children involved. You deserve a fresh start with a woman who doesn't have the horrible baggage your current wife is now carrying. Your wife also deserves to start her life over with a clean slate. 

Fate has granted you the gift of a do-over. Take it.


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## Gloomy Sunday

I inspected all communication between my wife and the culprit. I have checked the phone records and so far nothing gives me the impression that this was pre-meditated, at least on her behalf. In the past months there are only 4 days of communication (texts messages and two comments that he posted on her facebook page), and this was right before and during the convention. She never deleted the text messages or FB comments between them and showed them to me. The only thing that sounds suspect is a message from him on the last day asking her if she wants to hang out and have a drink with him and a bunch of friends in his hotel room. 

Many of you think that our mutual friend was up to no good with my wife and I would have to totally disagree. This man is like a brother to my wife and I. We are close to him, his wife and his son. If he did something with her or knew about what she was up to, he would tell me. I remember him once telling me that he went to a bachelor party and got a lap dance. He felt so guilty that he told his wife about it afterwards because he felt that what he did was inappropriate.

I read an e-mail that he sent to my wife days after all of this happened and he doesn’t know anything. In that e-mail he says that he was angry at her for being constantly intoxicated and did not want to be around her, so he was avoiding her for most of the time. The reason for this is because he does not drink and finds intoxicated people annoying.

Although I would like her to, it is not possible for my wife to quit her job. Before she took a break last month, a new contract was drawn up and she committed herself to working there until the end of the year. What she is doing is similar to consulting and the pay is very good. She gets along well with her superiors and they let her choose her own schedule. She will only be there for two days a week and the rest of the week she is at her other job. Right now finances are tight and we can’t afford for her to leave that place. Besides, I work about 15-20 minutes away and I’ve told her that once she goes back there, I might decide to drop by every once in a while to pay her a visit. Since she could not behave like a responsible adult, I will be monitoring her phone, facebook, e-mail, etc… If she goes out with her friends and I don’t feel comfortable, I may even decide to pop up by surprise wherever she is. She had the trust and she blew it so she will have to pay the consequences.

After all of this happened she said that if I wanted to know, she would tell me who it was. I declined because I was so upset that I would not believe her. I found out for who the culprit was because when I looked at the phone records I noticed a build up in activity from a certain number (that was not there before) during that weekend that has the same area code as the town she works in. Then when I looked at her facebook page I noticed a comment from someone I did not know who’s description contains where they work at. 

Right now no one except for the marriage counselor and the support group organizer know what has happened. I would rather keep this quiet but if I suspect that there is any more funny business going on I will blow up her spot in a heartbeat to her friends, family, co-workers, etc…

Right now she is remorseful and resentful but in the numb state I am in it is very difficult for me to process it. She says that she will do anything to make things right and we are attending joint counseling. She made an appointment with her OBGYN for next week at my request. I will also be attending a support group by myself. Right now I see a difficult but not impossible road ahead of me and I do not want to do anything to ruin it. What scares me is that I feel one day I might go out for drinks with friends and feel drunk, horny and stupid, and because of what was done to me I possibly will not be able to contain myself.


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## GusPolinski

New job or you might as well divorce.

All attempts at rationalizing or justifying any decision to the contrary is little more than noise, and complete waste of time.

Rule #1 of reconciliation - for as long as there is ANY contact between a wayward spouse and his or her affair partner, the affair will continue.


----------



## jsmart

TAMAT said:


> My thoughts...
> 
> There is much more than she has revealed, it's likely that *something has happened which has made it difficult to continue to hide.*
> 
> -*The OM has been discovered by his GF or Wife.
> 
> -The affair is an open secret at work and has become too big.
> 
> - The OM is reckless and has put photos on social media.
> 
> - The OM got what he wanted after much flirting, kissing, petting and emotional involvement and then dumped your Wife.*
> 
> Tamat





Edmund said:


> Hey Gloomy,
> I usually look for possible R but you have no children and are still young. File for divorce. Move her out if possible. I agree with the suspicions of other commenters here that: 1) *she pre-planned this;* 2) the affair has been going on before this; 3) *she rushed to tell you (5:30AM? Really?*) before someone else does; 4) it is worse than she has told you; 5) she regrets being caught but is not feeling remorseful or guilty; 6) she probably has other commuincations channels that she has not given you the password for. Dump her. .


This was definitely planned. As a matter of fact, things could have been brewing for a while, kissing on a lunch dates, but was taken to the next level that night. 

Confessing at 5:30 am leads me to believe that it was a preemptive confession before being exposed. Or perhaps the shame of realizing she cheapened herself for a kid, who couldn't give 2 heaps about her gave her some moral clarity that she felt overwhelmed with guilt that she had to wake you up at 5:30 am to confess.

I lean toward her confessing because she felt someone was going to expose her.


----------



## sokillme

Gloomy Sunday said:


> I inspected all communication between my wife and the culprit. I have checked the phone records and so far nothing gives me the impression that this was pre-meditated, at least on her behalf. In the past months there are only 4 days of communication (texts messages and two comments that he posted on her facebook page), and this was right before and during the convention. She never deleted the text messages or FB comments between them and showed them to me. The only thing that sounds suspect is a message from him on the last day asking her if she wants to hang out and have a drink with him and a bunch of friends in his hotel room.
> 
> Many of you think that our mutual friend was up to no good with my wife and I would have to totally disagree. This man is like a brother to my wife and I. We are close to him, his wife and his son. If he did something with her or knew about what she was up to, he would tell me. I remember him once telling me that he went to a bachelor party and got a lap dance. He felt so guilty that he told his wife about it afterwards because he felt that what he did was inappropriate.
> 
> I read an e-mail that he sent to my wife days after all of this happened and he doesn’t know anything. In that e-mail he says that he was angry at her for being constantly intoxicated and did not want to be around her, so he was avoiding her for most of the time. The reason for this is because he does not drink and finds intoxicated people annoying.
> 
> Although I would like her to, it is not possible for my wife to quit her job. Before she took a break last month, a new contract was drawn up and she committed herself to working there until the end of the year. What she is doing is similar to consulting and the pay is very good. She gets along well with her superiors and they let her choose her own schedule. She will only be there for two days a week and the rest of the week she is at her other job. Right now finances are tight and we can’t afford for her to leave that place. Besides, I work about 15-20 minutes away and I’ve told her that once she goes back there, I might decide to drop by every once in a while to pay her a visit. Since she could not behave like a responsible adult, I will be monitoring her phone, facebook, e-mail, etc… If she goes out with her friends and I don’t feel comfortable, I may even decide to pop up by surprise wherever she is. She had the trust and she blew it so she will have to pay the consequences.
> 
> After all of this happened she said that if I wanted to know, she would tell me who it was. I declined because I was so upset that I would not believe her. I found out for who the culprit was because when I looked at the phone records I noticed a build up in activity from a certain number (that was not there before) during that weekend that has the same area code as the town she works in. Then when I looked at her facebook page I noticed a comment from someone I did not know who’s description contains where they work at.
> 
> Right now no one except for the marriage counselor and the support group organizer know what has happened. I would rather keep this quiet but if I suspect that there is any more funny business going on I will blow up her spot in a heartbeat to her friends, family, co-workers, etc…
> 
> Right now she is remorseful and resentful but in the numb state I am in it is very difficult for me to process it. She says that she will do anything to make things right and we are attending joint counseling. She made an appointment with her OBGYN for next week at my request. I will also be attending a support group by myself. Right now I see a difficult but not impossible road ahead of me and I do not want to do anything to ruin it. What scares me is that I feel one day I might go out for drinks with friends and feel drunk, horny and stupid, and because of what was done to me I possibly will not be able to contain myself.


I am terribly sorry for you. But I don't want to give you a false picture of what you are accepting if you just move forward. 

What should scare you and more so her is when the shock and trauma wear off, when you see the situation with clarity without the understandable desperation you are in now. Then your marriage will get hard, as they all do, that is when most men like you have the hardest time. That seems to be when they wake up and feel like they were taken advantaged of because they were faithful and their wife wasn't. There are so many posts of men 10 years later who just slowly lost love and respect for their wives because of the disloyalty. The sad thing is the 10 years they wasted. This is why it's really not good to make a decision quickly. It makes much more sense to accept the marriage is dead, detach emotional, and then decide if you want to start over with this new less loyal women your wife is. It speeds up this process. Maybe she will have done enough to prove to you that she is worth it. 

(I will say her being resentful is not a very good start.) What is she doing to facilitate your healing anyway, besides crying? Has she gotten books, posted on boards, decided to go to IC, written you and apology? Why did you have to book the STD test? After the pain she has caused you she should be trying to win you back and working her ass off. But then you have completely taking her off the hook by jumping back so this has probably just empowered her to continue with her selfish thinking. Again why it's not good to rush this stuff. 

Another thing you need to understand is not to try to get your old marriage back, because that is a goose chase. You are only going to end up disappointed. Recognize right now today that the marriage is dead, if you stay with this women this will now always be a part of the dynamic of your new marriage. If faithfulness was a part of what you cherished most in the relationship the loss will be harder. In your first post you called her your soulmate which says to me that you tend to romanticize your relationships and your partner. This is going to be a hard thing to square with her actions.

With that being said, the most difficult but best advice I can give you is, if you are serious about staying with this women, in my opinion, you need to kill this kind of Disney like fairy tail about her now, today. It will prevent you from truly moving on. Your wife is a women who traded in 20 years of love and loyalty from you for some tawdry drunken sex, on a whim it seems. Accept it! Don't fight it. That is the ONLY way forward for you. The reason I say this is you see the ones who don't accept it and look for a magic key to explain it away and continue there fairy tail thinking end up stuck. There is no secret key to all this, there is only the truth, pure selfishness and cruelty. Accept it!

After you get that, then and only then decide if THIS women is the one you want to commit the rest of your life to.

Finally your wife's actions seem so out of character I still wonder if you have the whole truth and really know who she is. I would schedule a polygraph if it were me to check if she is telling the truth and if this is the first time. Something seems off, I don't believe the story. Also I would tell the guy she went on the trip with. She deserves to feel some shame for what she did because it is shameful, and he should know how he was used to facilitate cheating. Are you sure you want to deal with the idea that she is going to be seeing this guy she betrayed you with? That seems like a Recipe for disaster.


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## Learning2Fly

Good Luck OP. Sounds like you have a lot of soul searching to do. It sounds to me that it may have been premeditated but what do I know. Go with your gut on this. If you think she is being truthful and wants to repair the marriage then go for it. You just need to be able to live with it as well. It's a huge pill to swallow and sometimes it's impossible. You won't know that now though. You are still in the beginning stages of this mess and your heart or mind may never let you get past it. Only time will tell.


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## TheTruthHurts

@sokillme are you a BS?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

TheTruthHurts said:


> @sokillme are you a BS?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wasn't marred but I was betrayed by my first love who I proposed to, found out after. I am sure it is worse once you are married. Though I can't imagine a worse pain then what is was for me. It took 2 years before I felt like I was out of the cloud. Gloomy is the right word for it.


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## bandit.45

OP, why do you call the other man the culprit? He didn't make vows to you and break them. He didn't betray your trust. He's not the one acting defensive and unremorseful. 

Your wayward wife is the criminal here.


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## TRy

Gloomy Sunday said:


> I inspected all communication between my wife and the culprit.


 Did you check her burner phone? Did you even think of that? Your statement that you "inspected all communication" is nothing more than wishful thinking, as there are so many ways for cheaters to communicate without detection, no one that knows the facts would make such a statement. 

The problem is that as a couple you do not have normal marital boundaries in place. If your wife can share a hotel room overnight with another man, going over for a drink with a male coworker in his hotel room would not be crossing a line, like it would be for many couples. Your experiment with going without normal martial boundaries because she is a special snowflake has failed. It is easier to trust a spouse to respect pre-established boundaries that avoid such situations, then to trust a drunk spouse alone in a hotel room with a member of the opposite sex were their is mutual attraction.


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## Dyokemm

Gloomy,

You have received tons of great advice from veteran posters who learned these things the hard way....such as exposing the A and getting your WW out of that job and away from this POS immediately......and, I will add, to NOT believe her story at face value right away.

Yet your post is essentially a run down of why you believe her story and are NOT going to take the steps recommended to you.

It's your choice, but you ignore what these men and women are telling you at your own peril......their advice comes from not only their own horrid dealings with infidelity in their lives, but from advising HUNDREDS of people on here.....many of whom like you initially doubted and resisted their advice, usually based on the false assumption that their situation was somehow different than any other case of cheating.

If these posters could collect a dollar from every one of these posters who later came back with some version of 'you were all right....I should have listened' they would probably be able to retire.

As I said....ignore their insights and advice at your own peril.....but they are almost always right.


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## ABHale

What you are doing is going to end your marriage. 

They could have arranged everything face to face. No electronic trail that way. 

Don't roll over and play dead. If you are ok with her screwing another and working with that person, more power to you. Just get ready for a replay.


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## destroyd

Op, my WW also cheated with a younger coworker at work conferences etc... after reading your story I don't think you are even close to knowing the full truth. You are going to have to understand that she most likely has another life and work personna that is not the girl you married. My wife was so good at hiding it, and I trusted her so blindly that I only caught her after she'd been banging him a long time. This totally is at odds with the image of her that we all see. The deeper I dug, the worse it got.

I will tell you that she cannot continue to work there or any job that has travel. She **** in that rose garden and she needs to accept it. Visit consequences on her. And go talk face to face with this 'friend' of yours. Ask the hard questions. You need answers and not from your WW's mouth.


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## Graywolf2

Gloomy Sunday said:


> My wife and I are in our 40's and have been together for almost 20 years, although we actually married fairly recently. We met through mutual friends and we do not have any children.


You have no children. You lived together for almost 20 years as "soul-mates" and everything was fine. You recently promoted her to wife. Well she flunked the wife test. Divorce her and demote her back to soul-mate live in girlfriend. It was good enough for almost 20 years. Why must you remain married after she cheated? * Why is it all of a sudden vital to be married when it wasn't for almost 20 years? * Let her keep her job and divorce her. If she cheats again someone moves out.

It's ironic that she didn't cheat (as far as you know) until you married her.


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## Satya

I'm not going to beat you with 2x4s Gloomy, you're already getting plenty of that, but I am going to point a few things out and be very honest. You may disagree with my opinions but I used to have poor boundaries with men myself, so I feel pretty strongly about what I'm going to tell you. 

When a woman agrees to go to a hotel room with guys to "have some drinks," she knows 1.) her inhibition will be severely lowered and 2.) she will feel sexier and
3.) she is clearly desired for her company.

All of those thoughts build excitement in a woman. That's just the truth IMO and anything else is noise. Alcohol makes us feel free to explore in ways we wouldn't dare when sober. Those sober "filters" protect us from making poor choices that we likely WANT to make but still have the willpower to prevent. The thought police can't stop your wife from finding a younger man attractive, any more than they could stop you from starting at a woman's behind in a tight summer dress. 

Intentionally getting drunk is to KNOWINGLY disable those filters. When you're a woman without protection of a mate or close friend, that action is particularly foolhardy. Add in the elements of @turnera 's post about how men really view women they work with and you have all the ingredients to create a recipe for disaster.

That's why I and others say she has poor boundaries with men. She probably thought they made great friends when the truth is, they do.... AND they want in her pants. My present avatar is testament to the kind of truth I found difficult to accept at first, but once I did, suddenly my boundaries with men were strong. I learned and believe that men and women are of completely different mindsets when it comes to opposite sex friendships. I greatly appreciate and respect men in general, I have known some very upstanding blokes in my life, but the truth is that men will always be men. And thank the Universe for that, or we'd be a barren species. 

I'm not sure how to put my sense of boundaries with men into words here, but some day I'll try. In my past, poor boundaries not only hurt myself but also the men that I knew. Those men are no longer in my life. 

I think that your wife is still in an immature stage when it comes to understanding the nature of men. When husbands come here and say their wives have many male friends, or proportionately more male than female friends, or have NO female friends, I am greatly concerned in each case.

I think it's possible to heal from this, but you're going to need a severe action plan. Don't make decisions about anything when the pain is still raw. You owe it to yourself to be clear headed and thorough.


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## VFW

I believe that most relationships can be saved if both parties work to solve the problem. However it has to start with the offending party to be honest and contrite. Some people forgive immediately, while other can never get over the hurt. Neither is right or wrong, it is just who you are as a person. Your wife did confess and has offered passwords and access to all media and devices, this is a good thing. Still she seems from your comments to be reluctant to accept full responsibility. I think that I would have her reveal her indiscretion to her parents, not as punishment but for cathartic and accountability exercise. We can not get up until we admit that we are down, we can't make things right until we admit that we are wrong. The relationship that you had is over and now you are at a crossroads in the relationship. You two have to find a way forward or you may be better parting ways. This is a decision that only you can make, but know the way forward will be arduous regardless. Best wishes to you and your family.


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## Be smart

Your Wife played you so good. She is in her 40s and she blames alcohol for her cheating. She choose to cheat with some young Man. This would happen sooner or later in your relationship because of your poor boundaries. Hell I think this is not her first Affair. 

She Cheated and thought it will be alright because she will just give you paswords of her mail and phone. Lets go for some MC and we will be happy once again. 

They didnt text a lot you said. There is no need for that because they work together and they can talk,see each other and plan their meetings. Affair NEVER stopped. 

I get horny all the time,I am stupid sometimes,never drink because I hate alcohol but I never Cheated in my Life. 

What is going to happen next time she feels this way ? What happens when she is left alone with this young man once again ?

He invited her for drinks with his friends. You know what would happen if she went ? 
Your Wife still wants to work with her "good male Friend" ?

Good luck to you.


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## ABHale

Graywolf2 said:


> You have no children. You lived together for almost 20 years as "soul-mates" and everything was fine. You recently promoted her to wife. Well she flunked the wife test. Divorce her and demote her back to soul-mate live in girlfriend. It was good enough for almost 20 years. Why must you remain married after she cheated? * Why is it all of a sudden vital to be married when it wasn't for almost 20 years? * Let her keep her job and divorce her. If she cheats again someone moves out.
> 
> It's ironic that she didn't cheat (as far as you know) until you married her.


The OM that caught her eye and was "horny" for, only started working there 6 or so months ago.


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## sokillme

None of this stuff sounds like a soulmate to me. just saying.


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## ABHale

I would bet she never would have done this if she wasn't lusting after this OM. They got to know each other at work and it went from there. 

She just didn't go to some acquaintance room that she barely knew to drink. 

This is why she didn't stop until it was over. This was planned. 

She knew the friend that was with her disliked people that drank heavily. 

She knew he would shun her company. 

This gave a reason not to be together with out her telling some story of going off on her own. 

Text to come to the room to drink. 

Prearranged or not no difference. 

She knew at that point she was going to have sex with him. Before she got to the room. 

This just didn't happen. 

They talked it up at work, flirted what ever. That is what lead to this happening. 

She is pissed because your not seeing it as just sex and getting over it already.


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## straightshooter

Well, Gloomy, looks like the group ( all who have been down this road) are CRAZY since you seem to have it all figured out. She was just horny and a little drunk, and of course her spending 8-10 hours at the job with him able to talk about anything they want to makes no difference. I guess next time she gets horny maybe she'll tell you.

Ok, so if her job is vital, there are still things you can DEMAND not negotiate to get you the TRUTH , which of course it appears you are not overly anxious to verify. So in case you wake up, heres a few suggestions
(1) put a VAR IN HER CAR. If she has a burner phone she will be talking to him in the car. She may even have told a work colleague or girlfriend and may spill her beans to that person.
(2) if she is telling the truth that can be verified in less than an hour with four questions on a polygraph.

You understand ALL the books on infidelity say affair partners CANNOT continue to work together so you are already swimming upstream. And by the way the polygraph would also verify she has never gotten horny with your buddy sharing a room all these years.

But unfortunately, you seem to be determined to play ostrich. When the truth whacks you in the head again, some of the folks trying to talk some sense into you will still be here.


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## phillybeffandswiss

sokillme said:


> I wasn't marred but I was betrayed by my first love who I proposed to, found out after. I am sure it is worse once you are married. Though I can't imagine a worse pain then what is was for me. It took 2 years before I felt like I was out of the cloud. Gloomy is the right word for it.


Marriage may have bigger problems, but the pain isn't any different. Also, as you said in another thread she was your fiance. In some ways this is just as bad.


Anyway, believe what you need to reconcilie, but you are going down the "my wife is innocent" path. Your wife didn't magically become horny when she was drunk. This is her. Oh and they talked at work so, all you have is proof he offered her to come party. She's just as guilty, if not more so, than the guy.


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## Taxman

First since they just got a commitment from her then her job is safe. A consequence is that they are reported to HR and he loses his job or gets moved. They both will have scrutiny. Please go ahead and tell her that you intend on getting drunk, horny and stupid with a whole f88k-load of young pretty women really soon. Next, put her out, let her go live elsewhere for awhile. My wife put me out for 6 months, we reconnected through dating all over. 

This is a major crime and she needs to know what life looks like without you.


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## sokillme

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Marriage may have bigger problems, but the pain isn't any different. Also, as you said in another thread she was your fiance. In some ways this is just as bad.


She didn't say yes, she said she needed more time to think, this is what tipped me off and started me researching. Before that moment she presented our love like magic, like a dream come true, but her not accepting the proposal actually gave me insight that I didn't know her as well as I thought. Damn if that wasn't ever true. I had her email password as she had used my computer to look at it when over my apartment all the time. I read an email to the guy, "Do you believe my boyfriend, he asked me to marry him? Here he is proposing and I am thinking about you." I had and out of body experience when I read that, I actually saw myself from above reading that email, then I snapped back in my body. We tried for a month to reconcile, her begging, apologizing, but she was a different person now, seemed colder in a weird way. Maybe she had stopped acting, maybe my perception was different. After a month I couldn't look at myself anymore, this was not who I wanted to be. Up until that moment I was desperate to get everything back the way it was, but after that moment I had to admit it couldn't be, I wasn't the person I was before too, so it couldn't go back even if she did everything right. So I ghosted, which I fully admit was easy because she was from another country and had moved back there. I am sure it would have been much harder if she could have easily shown up at my door. (I don't think I would have changed anything, I would probably have just slammed the door and went back inside). I was done at that moment. I am the type of person when I am done, I'm done. 

What happened was she had been working in the states for a long while but her visa was going to be up, we met at the beginning when she got here a few months in. She decided to book a cross country trip before she when home, this was something she always planned to do when she first came here, and I was excited for her. She was saving and talked about it often. She had met this new guy on the trip. Before she left she was crying daily and we were talking about marriage. At that point I was spending every free moment with her. When she got back from the trip the day before she flew home I proposed and she couldn't say yes, this is why it was strange. 

The plan before had always been after the trip, she would go home for a month let her family know she was in love and moving here for good, get a vacation visa come back and we would get married. The proposal in my mind was a formality. We had talked about this many times. Now it was, she wasn't sure. I wonder if she ever really had plans to marry me, maybe I was just the American guy she had fun with while here, or maybe she didn't really want to move here but didn't know how to tell me so she cheated to blow everything up, or maybe she wanted one last fling didn't think I would find out but she got caught up in it. Who cares, even though I didn't think so at the time it was the best thing that could have happened to me. She had mommy issues as her mother basically abandoned her with her Dad and I was way too financially weak at that time to support a family. Even if she hadn't cheated it would have been a hard life. She was way too young (early 20's) and so was I (mid 20s). Maybe in her mind our whole relationship was just kind of an American adventure. 

I loved her like I love my wife though, without reserve and if she hadn't cheated and had accepted my proposal we would still be married to this day in my mind, but I doubt I would have been as happy. It took about a year to not think about her the first moment I woke up and the last moment I went to sleep. It took about 2 years to stop thinking after every big event she should be with me. I remember when I got my first real job paying good money, I wasn't happy I actually cried on the drive home (this was about a year out) because my thinking this was not the life I wanted. 

Anyway is that as painful as being married, NO. I didn't have finances to separate or a house to lose, I didn't have the possibility to seeing her still for the rest of my life, didn't have kids to only see half the time. That is much worse, no doubt at all. She DID continue to call me for a few months, I just didn't answer. She also would pop up on text chat, every day at first and then every once in a while for a few months to a year after, I wouldn't answer. Eventually she gave up. I have not spoken to her since don't know is she is dead or alive.

The other thing that helped me end it was that in the email I read she was talking about how much she wanted to come back to see him, at the same time telling me she missed being home and that was part of why she was having doubts. The trip was like a tour so it was like 2 week. Ha, she could blow away over a year long intense every day relationship in 2 weeks. Again this is who these people are, a lot of what they say is just words. They always show short term thinking and live in the moment. After I caught her now she was saying the same things to me, how much she wanted to come back an see me, start over. I just kept thinking, yeah and then you can pretend to go home early and go see this guy too. 

I have read so much stuff in these last few years from cheaters and spouses of cheaters an they all do this crap. They are not authentic people, it's like trying to have a relationship with the wind. When a person doesn't live in a world where they speak the truth, you are then stuck in this kind of constant doubt about everything. This contributes to the BS pain but I don't think most can identify that part of it. You have to give up your agency even if you are the leader in the relationship because you know that every decision you make is subject to a person who can change on a dime, or is not really who they present themselves to be. You really have no idea who they are, and can't be confident you ever will. I just had to have a better quality of life then that. She could no longer offer me safety, and grounding. My childhood never had any of that until I left at 18. I wasn't going to go back to that. 

So there is my full disclosure. I wrote what I wrote because of my experience and also from reading the blogs now for over a year. I am sure someone will now post on how I have no right to give any advice or how my situation was unique so I have not right to talk. OP can decide whether he agrees with that or not.


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## harrybrown

You have not mentioned anything about absolute NC with the OM.

She is lying to you.

If you do not have NC, file for D.

So she is protecting the OM rather than protecting you. She did not give you his name. 

When will she start protecting you? You need to tell the friend so that he can stop all of her drinking and cheating.

She is not sorry.


How would she feel if you had an open marriage?

you do, you just did not know it.

If you do not file for D, you need to expose the A and have NC.

And she needs to tell her work and the OM's wife.

and start protecting you.


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## ABHale

Tracking her, her phone and car. What is she two. 

She has already come clean as far as she wished about the blissful romp in the hotel room. 

Is it really worth it if you have to keep tabs on everything she does?

Is it worth it if you can't trust the words that come from her mouth?

Is it worth it knowing what that mouth did and might have done to the OM?

She has only come up with reason why she can't leave her job or why it happened. 

One question, when she woke you up the morning of DDay. Was she upset or did she just come right out and confess?

If she wasn't broken down crying asking you not to leave. She doesn't see this as to big of a deal. It happened, get over it.


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## ABHale

One more thing. She knows now she can sleep with who ever she wants to now. The first time is the hardest, if this was the first. 

She knows if you leave she will be ok.


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## Learning2Fly

Yeah, if it's a no contest state they live it, then he would probably be screwed anyways in divorce court.


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## TX-SC

It sounds to me like your wife is being honest about what happened and feels remorse for what she has done. She is doing everything that a wayward could be asked to do, including being open, not shifting blame or making excuses. The one major issue is her unwillingness to leave her job. But, since you say the two of you need her to keep her job, I assume it's a necessary evil. 

So, your wife had a drunken ONS with a coworker. She came home and immediately told you what happened, gave you access to all social media, and offered to tell you who the OM is. When you said you didn't want to know, she respected your wishes. I don't see that as protecting the OM at your expense. 

I really don't think this is the pre-planned affair that people here are pointing to. I think she got drunk and horny and decided to take what was available. What your wife is not telling you is that she has probably fantasized about cheating. After it happened, she realized that it wasn't what she thought it would be and is not worth losing her marriage over. Her conscience got the best of her and she knew she had to confess. 

I could be wrong, and your wife may be a horrible person who has cheated multiple times in the past. If so, I would certainly walk away and divorce. If your gut tells you that she is telling the truth, and you want to R, by all means do so. The trust will be gone for a long time, and your marriage can never truly be the same, but it can still be good and may even grow to be stronger. 

Being Mr. Spiteful, the chances are that I would demand a hall pass, but you can be more adult than I would.


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## turnera

What is she going to do to keep from contacting OM?

What is she resentful about?


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## dianaelaine59

Sorry, but if my H came home and told me he cheated because he was "drunk, horny and stupid", it's over .... PERIOD!!! 

Once he decides to put himself into another woman, he's no longer MY husband. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Quality

sokillme said:


> She didn't say yes, she said she needed more time to think, this is what tipped me off and started me researching. Before that moment she presented our love like magic, like a dream come true, but her not accepting the proposal actually gave me insight that I didn't know her as well as I thought. Damn if that wasn't ever true. I had her email password as she had used my computer to look at it when over my apartment all the time. I read an email to the guy, "Do you believe my boyfriend, he asked me to marry him? Here he is proposing and I am thinking about you." I had and out of body experience when I read that, I actually saw myself from above reading that email, then I snapped back in my body. We tried for a month to reconcile, her begging, apologizing, but she was a different person now, seemed colder in a weird way. Maybe she had stopped acting, maybe my perception was different. After a month I couldn't look at myself anymore, this was not who I wanted to be. Up until that moment I was desperate to get everything back the way it was, but after that moment I had to admit it couldn't be, I wasn't the person I was before too, so it couldn't go back even if she did everything right. So I ghosted, which I fully admit was easy because she was from another country and had moved back there. I am sure it would have been much harder if she could have easily shown up at my door. (I don't think I would have changed anything, I would probably have just slammed the door and went back inside). I was done at that moment. I am the type of person when I am done, I'm done.
> 
> What happened was she had been working in the states for a long while but her visa was going to be up, we met at the beginning when she got here a few months in. She decided to book a cross country trip before she when home, this was something she always planned to do when she first came here, and I was excited for her. She was saving and talked about it often. She had met this new guy on the trip. Before she left she was crying daily and we were talking about marriage. At that point I was spending every free moment with her. When she got back from the trip the day before she flew home I proposed and she couldn't say yes, this is why it was strange.
> 
> The plan before had always been after the trip, she would go home for a month let her family know she was in love and moving here for good, get a vacation visa come back and we would get married. The proposal in my mind was a formality. We had talked about this many times. Now it was, she wasn't sure. I wonder if she ever really had plans to marry me, maybe I was just the American guy she had fun with while here, or maybe she didn't really want to move here but didn't know how to tell me so she cheated to blow everything up, or maybe she wanted one last fling didn't think I would find out but she got caught up in it. Who cares, even though I didn't think so at the time it was the best thing that could have happened to me. She had mommy issues as her mother basically abandoned her with her Dad and I was way too financially weak at that time to support a family. Even if she hadn't cheated it would have been a hard life. She was way too young (early 20's) and so was I (mid 20s). Maybe in her mind our whole relationship was just kind of an American adventure.
> 
> I loved her like I love my wife though, without reserve and if she hadn't cheated and had accepted my proposal we would still be married to this day in my mind, but I doubt I would have been as happy. It took about a year to not think about her the first moment I woke up and the last moment I went to sleep. It took about 2 years to stop thinking after every big event she should be with me. I remember when I got my first real job paying good money, I wasn't happy I actually cried on the drive home (this was about a year out) because my thinking this was not the life I wanted.
> 
> Anyway is that as painful as being married, NO. I didn't have finances to separate or a house to lose, I didn't have the possibility to seeing her still for the rest of my life, didn't have kids to only see half the time. That is much worse, no doubt at all. She DID continue to call me for a few months, I just didn't answer. She also would pop up on text chat, every day at first and then every once in a while for a few months to a year after, I wouldn't answer. Eventually she gave up. I have not spoken to her since don't know is she is dead or alive.
> 
> The other thing that helped me end it was that in the email I read she was talking about how much she wanted to come back to see him, at the same time telling me she missed being home and that was part of why she was having doubts. The trip was like a tour so it was like 2 week. Ha, she could blow away over a year long intense every day relationship in 2 weeks. Again this is who these people are, a lot of what they say is just words. They always show short term thinking and live in the moment. After I caught her now she was saying the same things to me, how much she wanted to come back an see me, start over. I just kept thinking, yeah and then you can pretend to go home early and go see this guy too.
> 
> I have read so much stuff in these last few years from cheaters and spouses of cheaters an they all do this crap. They are not authentic people, it's like trying to have a relationship with the wind. When a person doesn't live in a world where they speak the truth, you are then stuck in this kind of constant doubt about everything. This contributes to the BS pain but I don't think most can identify that part of it. You have to give up your agency even if you are the leader in the relationship because you know that every decision you make is subject to a person who can change on a dime, or is not really who they present themselves to be. You really have no idea who they are, and can't be confident you ever will. I just had to have a better quality of life then that. She could no longer offer me safety, and grounding. My childhood never had any of that until I left at 18. I wasn't going to go back to that.
> 
> So there is my full disclosure. I wrote what I wrote because of my experience and also from reading the blogs now for over a year. I am sure someone will now post on how I have no right to give any advice or how my situation was unique so I have not right to talk. OP can decide whether he agrees with that or not.



What a sad and tragic story and I'm very sorry for your loss. I'm sure considering the history with your parents that it was very painful. I have never minimized your pain. Break up's are very hard. It's interesting how God works in mysterious ways; and, the tests He has provided you with have hopefully uniquely made you stronger and more resilient to endure the struggles your wife and you are enduring the last couple years.

That said, comparing the behavior of your young foreign national ex-girlfriend in her early age 20's at the end of your 52 week or so relationship to the original posters 20 YEAR relationship, let alone EVERY struggling multi-year or multi-decade marriage you post to here, is quite the reach. I'm flummoxed. Your ex-girlfriend was free to date whomever she wanted. That's the definition of "dating". You even lied calling her your fiancé many times. Lumping her in with every unrepentant reprobate wayward adulterer you've obsessed yourself with these last few years on infidelity forums is just completely erroneous and self-righteous. 

And she LEFT the next day??? You didn't actually "ghost" her. She left. Sure she begged for reconciliation over a phone or email but you have no idea whether that was sincere or she was just after a visa/citizenship.

BTW, when I was in college, my then 1.5 year duration girlfriend cheated on me, too; and, I broke a few hearts in my time also. It happens. But I've never related anything about those relationship to a marriage enduring infidelity in all my years of coaching. 

My point. You have no idea if that is "who" {a unreceptive cheater doomed to a lifetime of lying} your ex-girlfriend was then, let alone who she is today a decade later. You hardly even knew her. First loves are like that and the insight into them being a good fit for you comes only AFTER the breakup and helps sharpen our abilities to recognize our real spouses when we eventually meet and date them. Not to mention, if you had found someone better than her yourself, prior to engagement/marriage, you'd have not considered yourself an irreparable cheater the rest of your life either. No one ever does that because it's a general accepted principle that "all is fair in love and war" and dating is a brutal endeavor. Monogamy is hard enough for humans in marriage, but it's a complete myth in dating relationships and you just over invested your heart in someone that wasn't actual "yours" yet. 

Back to the original poster ~ During marriage there are actual vows that include "in sickness and health, good times and bad, until death do us part" and while every betrayed spouse has the RIGHT to divorce their wayward spouse for adultery.....not all that many actually do. In that Dr. Harley video Ele Girl posted on page one of this thread, he stated clearly that the marriages that remain together and miserable after infidelity are the ones that don't do any kind of recovery program and just rug sweep the affair. It's not about punishment, revenge affairs, or making them hurt. This poster {Gloomy} needs to decide what he wants to do. When I was faced with this decision-tree myself, I wasn't sure. I didn't want to go back to our prior marriage and neither of us knew whether our future marriage could be better, so I just put off the divorce until I was sure that's the what I wanted to do. We were either going to have a great "extra-ordinary" marriage that worked for both of us or we'd split ways ~ unamicably, no doubt. Our church had some great couples to walk along side us and together we all studied marriage and the bible together. Gloomy, your future marriage doesn't have to be a disaster and just because some guys show up back on infidelity forums 10 years later bemoaning THEIR choices to reconcile doesn't mean that's going to be you someday nor that they represent any kind of majority of betrayed spouses in real life. Point is, despite what you've read on this thread, most marriages recover and some even thrive after infidelity. The things and warnings you've read on this thread are informative and instructive and illustrative of the traps and dangers unknown to you previously, albeit., but they don't dictate YOUR unique situation and they certainly don't define your wife. My wife wasn't garbage I was going to throw away. People aren't disposable and they can and do learn from their mistakes and sometimes even make amends and "grow up". There is hope. There is always hope.


One issue I see is that though you {Gloomy} and your wife were together for 20 years {living together pre-marriage much of that time, presumably}. Did you know that living together like that, in the opinion of some professionals, may have contributed to your eventual marriage ending up in just the disaster you're experiencing now? I'll link an article below about the dangers and consequences of living together before marriage, not as a way of criticizing your relationship and marriage, but as a way of hopefully helping you come to an understanding of how you {and your wife} may have ended up in this place in your life. Again, I am not being judgmental of your relationship, I am actually sharing a bit of my experience coming to the realization that all the unGodly choices I {and my wife} had made in our own lives had inevitable led us to the same spot you're in only we had children making it even more consequential {though equally painful on a personal level, I'm sure}. 

What It's Like to Be Married After Living Together ~ Dr. Hartley
 

None of that makes you in any way responsible for your wife's extremely hurtful choice to cheat, but in my marriage, I could see how the liberal attitude we both had about opposite sex friends and loose boundaries contributed greatly to the likelihood that either her OR I were quite likely to have cheated one day or another. I wasn't a special snowflake completely resistant to sin and our 1970's free love louse'y goose'y boundaries carried over into our marriage with disastrous consequences {to be clear ~ "free love" doesn't mean we were swingers ~ just promiscuous before meeting and overly trusting afterwards}. We had to both learn that people in successful happy marriages just don't behave like we {and you and your wife} did.


----------



## Quality

TX-SC said:


> It sounds to me like your wife is being honest about what happened and feels remorse for what she has done. She is doing everything that a wayward could be asked to do, including being open, not shifting blame or making excuses. The one major issue is her unwillingness to leave her job. But, since you say the two of you need her to keep her job, I assume it's a necessary evil.
> 
> So, your wife had a drunken ONS with a coworker. She came home and immediately told you what happened, gave you access to all social media, and offered to tell you who the OM is. When you said you didn't want to know, she respected your wishes. I don't see that as protecting the OM at your expense.
> 
> I really don't think this is the pre-planned affair that people here are pointing to. I think she got drunk and horny and decided to take what was available. What your wife is not telling you is that she has probably fantasized about cheating. After it happened, she realized that it wasn't what she thought it would be and is not worth losing her marriage over. Her conscience got the best of her and she knew she had to confess.
> 
> I could be wrong, and your wife may be a horrible person who has cheated multiple times in the past. If so, I would certainly walk away and divorce. If your gut tells you that she is telling the truth, and you want to R, by all means do so. The trust will be gone for a long time, and your marriage can never truly be the same, but it can still be good and may even grow to be stronger.
> 
> Being Mr. Spiteful, the chances are that I would demand a hall pass, but you can be more adult than I would.


Other than the last sentence about a "hall pass", just really nice to see a rational assessment. 

Gloomy ~ you're on the ground making actual decisions about your life and with all the knowledge and experience of your 20 year relationship with this woman. Sometimes where there is smoke there's a huge city on the other side of the mountain burning to the ground but more often than not it's fully what it appears to be. Be smart and investigate the truth about your life but your wife isn't the same or destined to be the same as any poster's wife, ex-wife or ex-girlfriend {eye roll} here.


----------



## sokillme

Quality said:


> What a sad and tragic story and I'm very sorry for your loss. I'm sure considering the history with your parents that it was very painful. I have never minimized your pain. Break up's are very hard. It's interesting how God works in mysterious ways; and, the tests He has provided you with have hopefully uniquely made you stronger and more resilient to endure the struggles your wife and you are enduring the last couple years.
> 
> That said, comparing the behavior of your young foreign national ex-girlfriend in her early age 20's at the end of your 52 week or so relationship to the original posters 20 YEAR relationship, let alone EVERY struggling multi-year or multi-decade marriage you post to here, is quite the reach. I'm flummoxed. Your ex-girlfriend was free to date whomever she wanted. That's the definition of "dating". You even lied calling her your fiancé many times. Lumping her in with every unrepentant reprobate wayward adulterer you've obsessed yourself with these last few years on infidelity forums is just completely erroneous and self-righteous.
> 
> And she LEFT the next day??? You didn't actually "ghost" her. She left. Sure she begged for reconciliation over a phone or email but you have no idea whether that was sincere or she was just after a visa/citizenship.
> 
> BTW, when I was in college, my then 1.5 year duration girlfriend cheated on me, too; and, I broke a few hearts in my time also. It happens. But I've never related anything about those relationship to a marriage enduring infidelity in all my years of coaching.
> 
> My point. You have no idea if that is "who" {a unreceptive cheater doomed to a lifetime of lying} your ex-girlfriend was then, let alone who she is today a decade later. You hardly even knew her. First loves are like that and the insight into them being a good fit for you comes only AFTER the breakup and helps sharpen our abilities to recognize our real spouses when we eventually meet and date them. Not to mention, if you had found someone better than her yourself, prior to engagement/marriage, you'd have not considered yourself an irreparable cheater the rest of your life either. No one ever does that because it's a general accepted principle that "all is fair in love and war" and dating is a brutal endeavor. Monogamy is hard enough for humans in marriage, but it's a complete myth in dating relationships and you just over invested your heart in someone that wasn't actual "yours" yet.
> 
> Back to the original poster ~ During marriage there are actual vows that include "in sickness and health, good times and bad, until death do us part" and while every betrayed spouse has the RIGHT to divorce their wayward spouse for adultery.....not all that many actually do. In that Dr. Harley video Ele Girl posted on page one of this thread, he stated clearly that the marriages that remain together and miserable after infidelity are the ones that don't do any kind of recovery program and just rug sweep the affair. It's not about punishment, revenge affairs, or making them hurt. This poster {Gloomy} needs to decide what he wants to do. When I was faced with this decision-tree myself, I wasn't sure. I didn't want to go back to our prior marriage and neither of us knew whether our future marriage could be better, so I just put off the divorce until I was sure that's the what I wanted to do. We were either going to have a great "extra-ordinary" marriage that worked for both of us or we'd split ways ~ unamicably, no doubt. Our church had some great couples to walk along side us and together we all studied marriage and the bible together. Gloomy, your future marriage doesn't have to be a disaster and just because some guys show up back on infidelity forums 10 years later bemoaning THEIR choices to reconcile doesn't mean that's going to be you someday nor that they represent any kind of majority of betrayed spouses in real life. Point is, despite what you've read on this thread, most marriages recover and some even thrive after infidelity. The things and warnings you've read on this thread are informative and instructive and illustrative of the traps and dangers unknown to you previously, albeit., but they don't dictate YOUR unique situation and they certainly don't define your wife. My wife wasn't garbage I was going to throw away. People aren't disposable and they can and do learn from their mistakes and sometimes even make amends and "grow up". There is hope. There is always hope.
> 
> 
> One issue I see is that though you {Gloomy} and your wife were together for 20 years {living together pre-marriage much of that time, presumably}. Did you know that living together like that, in the opinion of some professionals, may have contributed to your eventual marriage ending up in just the disaster you're experiencing now? I'll link an article below about the dangers and consequences of living together before marriage, not as a way of criticizing your relationship and marriage, but as a way of hopefully helping you come to an understanding of how you {and your wife} may have ended up in this place in your life. Again, I am not being judgmental of your relationship, I am actually sharing a bit of my experience coming to the realization that all the unGodly choices I {and my wife} had made in our own lives had inevitable led us to the same spot you're in only we had children making it even more consequential {though equally painful on a personal level, I'm sure}.
> 
> What It's Like to Be Married After Living Together ~ Dr. Hartley
> 
> 
> None of that makes you in any way responsible for your wife's extremely hurtful choice to cheat, but in my marriage, I could see how the liberal attitude we both had about opposite sex friends and loose boundaries contributed greatly to the likelihood that either her OR I were quite likely to have cheated one day or another. I wasn't a special snowflake completely resistant to sin and our 1970's free love louse'y goose'y boundaries carried over into our marriage with disastrous consequences {to be clear ~ "free love" doesn't mean we were swingers ~ just promiscuous before meeting and overly trusting afterwards}. We had to both learn that people in successful happy marriages just don't behave like we {and you and your wife} did.





sokillme said:


> I am sure someone will now post on how I have no right to give any advice or how my situation was unique so I have not right to talk. OP can decide whether he agrees with that or not.


By the way I read the first paragraph and one sentence more of that. 

Let me guess as usual your opinion is that yours is the only one experienced and wise enough to comment. But you will show courtesy to those who agree with you. Got it.


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## sokillme

Proverbs 7, verse 27 makes the point better then I could.


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## PreRaph

turnera said:


> What is she going to do to keep from contacting OM?
> 
> What is she resentful about?


I also wondered about this. She's resentful? About what exactly?


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## Quality

sokillme said:


> Proverbs 7, verse 27 makes the point better then I could.


If she remains unrepentant, certainly, but Godly sorrow already is seemingly apparent here which makes it seem she's on her way to repentance. Sprinkle in some forgiveness, in due time, and she's no longer an "adulteress". Her sins, like yours and mine {past, present and future}, would be washed away by the blood of Christ, as far as the east from the west and her husband's forgiveness might even sanctify her and alleviate her shame.


Undying Love - The Story of Hosea and Gomer

Gloomy ~ I apologize if you aren't a Christian or Jewish and this old testament Bible stuff matters not to you. I just didn't like seeing him use the bible to basically mischaracterize your wife as some kind of forever unredeemable prostitute that Solomon was warning men to guard their wisdom from. This paragraph from the Hosea commentary sums up my beliefs nicely:



> Gomer was still beloved of Hosea even though she was an adulteress, and God wanted him to seek her out and prove his love to her. How could anyone love that deeply? The answer was right there in God’s instructions to Hosea, “even as the Lord loves.” Only one who knows the love and forgiveness of God can ever love this perfectly. And one who has experienced His loving forgiveness cannot help but love and forgive others. Christian husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the Church (Eph. 5:25), and Hosea is an outstanding biblical example of that kind of love.


You don't have to reconcile if you don't want to. You have a biblical "get out of marriage free" card and not every man can handle such betrayal. But if you choose to reconcile, I suggest doing so with the love and hope exemplified by Hosea as well as Jesus and many other forgiving folks throughout the Bible {and really throughout the world that have successfully restored their marriages}.


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## Chuck71

OP....... this was premeditated. When a woman goes into a room to drink, she knows beforehand

her exit strategy, who she knows and comfortable with, and who she wants to stay away from.

If not.... her story ends up on Law n Order SVU. Does she drink like this at home? It should bother you

your W drinks excessively while on work trips. Ever heard the term "What happens in Vegas, stays

in Vegas?" Same applies for work trips. From her resentful attitude, is it she is upset she

would be outed and had to spill the beans? Or could it be you halfway held her accountable?

I don't know if my XW cheated or not but when she gave up / walked out on the M.... I was through

(of course after about six weeks of devastation). Course after I started getting on with my life,

she made more reaches than a Roman bath house on dime beer night. Too late...

Many posters say this isn't her first rodeo since you have been together, what.... 20 years and just M

for a year? The "if she is cheating now, imagine before the wedding." Something to consider.

You MUST have her reveal the POSOMs identity (do a bit of research on him, who he is, etc.).

She MUST get another job like yesterday. These two conditions MUST be met or you are

out the door and are filing for D. Or you can stay and be another doormat H as she loses more and 

more respect for you. How's your sex life? Down a bit? She may be staying true with her new 

boy-toy. A final note.... my parents got M back in the mid-60s. They D a month later. Pop took mom's 

car and drove three states to pick up an ex-gf. For some strange reason... they started talking after

around a year.... anyway, they became (what pop termed) "retreads," as in re-M.

Their punishment was me coming along LOL but that's a whole different story. But in my mom's eyes....

that M was toast, over, done, finito. And she killed it. But what if they stayed M? Can't see it....

too much resentment. Granted mom was a hot mess back then and pop was a bad boy.

Sadly.... I'm more like pop than I'd like to admit. So.... hot messes aren't what I seek out.

I know how they end up. Date her, have sex with her, even live with her but.... for the love of 

grandma's cookies... D her. She broke the marital contract. It is now null and void.


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## Dannip

Have you recovered deleted texts, pics and emails from her phone yet? They may speak more truth than she is. Stick a bug in her car for a few days.


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## TheTruthHurts

@Gloomy Sunday I'm a bit perplexed at the animus shown to your WW. In CWI, people here are clambering for the BS to leave because the WW stonewalls, trickle truths, and is only exposed through the actions of the BS. The goal is to get the WS to expose their email, passwords, etc and become transparent to begin the process of trust.

Your WS has already done that on her own. She confessed or you wouldn't have known. So she is already in the 5% that are "different" here

I travelled for business for 7-9 years. I went out a bit and went to strip clubs, etc. 

I never was alone with an OS colleague though. That is only due to boundaries - not desire.

On one occasion very early in my career I was at a conference. There was a cute coworker and she ended up in my room. Don't even remember the circumstances. But there she was, in short shorts (not sexy shorts but sports shorts), in a casual t shirt, smiling, happy, and cute. For a second a million ideas flashed through my head and I realized I was a guy and if i wanted more would happen. She was single so it was no issue with her.

The fact that I can recall that moment from the 1980s is very telling. We weren't drinking and I think I immediately shoed her away. I've never recounted that story. But I needed to in order to point out that even good people, when in bad situations, can get caught up in the moment


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Gloomy Sunday I'm a bit perplexed at the animus shown to your WW. In CWI, people here are clambering for the BS to leave because the WW stonewalls, trickle truths, and is only exposed through the actions of the BS. The goal is to get the WS to expose their email, passwords, etc and become transparent to begin the process of trust.
> 
> Your WS has already done that on her own. She confessed or you wouldn't have known. So she is already in the 5% that are "different" here
> 
> I travelled for business for 7-9 years. I went out a bit and went to strip clubs, etc.
> 
> I never was alone with an OS colleague though. That is only due to boundaries - not desire.
> 
> On one occasion very early in my career I was at a conference. There was a cute coworker and she ended up in my room. Don't even remember the circumstances. But there she was, in short shorts (not sexy shorts but sports shorts), in a casual t shirt, smiling, happy, and cute. For a second a million ideas flashed through my head and I realized I was a guy and if i wanted more would happen. She was single so it was no issue with her.
> 
> The fact that I can recall that moment from the 1980s is very telling. We weren't drinking and I think I immediately shoed her away. I've never recounted that story. But I needed to in order to point out that even good people, when in bad situations, can get caught up in the moment
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is assuming she is she is telling the truth. Even the most ardent supporters of Reconciliations would admit a successful R takes a whole lot more then a confession. I think most of us don't think he has even the half of the story. Besides that she also didn't happen to end up in his room like your story, this guy invited her there a few days before for drinks, that shows she has poor boundaries and it was at least partially premeditated. Then there is the idea that he has to live with the fact that her love for him wasn't enough to prevent her from being horny, drunk and sleeping with this guy. That's a difficult thing to live with. I'm perplexed that you're perplexed.


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## stillthinking

Well Gloomy,

You have gotten a ton of advice here. Lots for you to think about. And since you are still is the shock stage, remember it may take you a while to start thinking straight.

Questions....

You have known her for 20 years. How do you think she would react if you had gotten drunk, ****ed a coworker, and stayed at the job? Would she be as understanding as you appear to be?

Might I suggest something? Perhaps start with step 1 before you go into Inspector Gadget/Prison Warden mode, with the random visits to the office and such. Maybe there is something you need to think about first. Do you want to spend the rest of your days with a cheater? Knowing what you do now, is she worth all of the pain to keep her in your life? Do you think you can ever be truly happy with her again?


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## TheTruthHurts

sokillme said:


> This is assuming she is she is telling the truth. Even the most ardent supporters of Reconciliations would admit a successful R takes a whole lot more then a confession. I think most of us don't think he has even the half of the story. Besides that she also didn't happen to end up in his room like your story, this guy invited her there a few days before for drinks, that shows she has poor boundaries and it was at least partially premeditated. Then there is the idea that he has to live with the fact that her love for him wasn't enough to prevent her from being horny, drunk and sleeping with this guy. That's a difficult thing to live with. I'm perplexed that you're perplexed.




Yeah I totally get your opinion because you've shared it multiple times. I just don't agree hence my opinion


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## BetrayedDad

Gloomy Sunday said:


> The only thing that sounds suspect is a message from him on the last day asking her if she wants to hang out and have a drink with him and a bunch of friends in his hotel room.


Sounds like this wasn't their first rodeo after all.



Gloomy Sunday said:


> Although I would like her to, it is not possible for my wife to quit her job.


Take comfort then in this guy picturing your wife naked and humping his penis every time he sees her at work.



Gloomy Sunday said:


> If she goes out with her friends and I don’t feel comfortable, I may even decide to pop up by surprise wherever she is. She had the trust and she blew it so she will have to pay the consequences.


REAL consequences are she quits the booze cold turkey and STOPS going out with out you.



Gloomy Sunday said:


> After all of this happened she said that if I wanted to know, she would tell me who it was. I declined


Makes sense, wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers or anything...



Gloomy Sunday said:


> Right now no one except for the marriage counselor and the support group organizer know what has happened. I would rather keep this quiet


Nothing to see here folks. The floor looks clean to me. Must of been professionally rug swept.


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## TheTruthHurts

BetrayedDad said:


> Sounds like this wasn't their first rodeo after all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take comfort then in this guy picturing your wife naked and humping his penis every time he sees her at work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> REAL consequences are she quits the booze cold turkey and STOPS going out with out you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Makes sense, wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers or anything...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to see here folks. The floor looks clean to me. Must of been professionally rug swept.




All great points. Personally I think her boundaries got the better of her and this may have been a ONS but otherwise I'm in agreement 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drifting on

stillthinking said:


> Well Gloomy,
> 
> You have gotten a ton of advice here. Lots for you to think about. And since you are still is the shock stage, remember it may take you a while to start thinking straight.
> 
> Questions....
> 
> You have known her for 20 years. How do you think she would react if you had gotten drunk, ****ed a coworker, and stayed at the job? Would she be as understanding as you appear to be?
> 
> Might I suggest something? Perhaps start with step 1 before you go into Inspector Gadget/Prison Warden mode, with the random visits to the office and such. Maybe there is something you need to think about first. Do you want to spend the rest of your days with a cheater? Knowing what you do now, is she worth all of the pain to keep her in your life? Do you think you can ever be truly happy with her again?




Gloomy

The second paragraph has two very interesting questions for you to ask yourself, I went through this and it's much more difficult then you think. You may or may not know my story, short version, wife had a workplace affair. What you must first understand gloomy, is you are ten steps behind your wife. It doesn't matter if she confessed or not, what you don't know is how much contact they've had the past year. Even if she tells you, it won't be the complete story, some information will be withheld from you. As for catching them, or dropping by unexpectedly, what do you think if you did stop by and she was with OM? She would say you dropped by during the ten minutes a week they have contact. How would you know? Because your wife told you so? What about her office phone? Her work computer? The forms of communication you don't have? Do you know who she calls on her office phone? Her work email? Who she speaks to face to face? No, you have none of this. That's why she showed you the text history while she was gone, it proves nothing, it's simply a half truth to what is really happening. 

What I'm saying is she shows you the texts, they all happened while she was out of town, were there any other texts between them? If no then she deleted them, but why? If there was no other text messages, it means two things, first, they didn't text except for what she showed you, and second, they used a different form of communication. Understand that you will never know. Now my wife and her OM worked together, during the entire time they worked together (years), I found one email on my wife's phone. ONE, why? They used different ways to communicate, office phone, email, and face to face. You can drop by every hour and not catch her and OM together, but did they talk or meet in person? You will never know. 

I thought I was strong enough, that my wife and OM could work together, NOPE. Not even close, my wife sent me her schedule, but how did I know that she really had a meeting and he was elsewhere? My wife took pictures of her in her office alone, but how did I know OM wasn't standing out of camera range? Or that my wife told him to exit her office so she could take the picture, how did I know OM wasn't standing outside her office? The point is you can't know, and it doesn't help as you know they work for the same company. We couldn't afford my wife to quit either, so I began applying pressure to OM to quit. Ypur wife should understand the pain it will cause to you knowing she's working with the guy she banged, and if she doesn't, she won't ever be remorseful. Plain and simple here, your wife knows deep down she needs to quit, her not quitting is a very telling sign. 

Workplace affairs suck, so much information you can never know. You can't see her work phone call log, her emails, and if she does show them to you, how do you know she delete anything? How do you know what his extension is? You don't. This is what I had to face, and I chose to take an action. Pressure on the OM. Now my wife's OM didn't make any vows to me, but he knew me, he knew she was married, he decided to invade my marriage anyway, and that is an invasion on you. True, your wife just as mine did accepted the advances, but that doesn't mean you have to. You can contact OM, you can make his life miserable at work, and you can pressure him to quit. Everything I did could have backfired on me at any time, my wife could have lost her job, and I consider that on her, it's a consequence. It's bad enough my wife cheated like yours, it was a stupid decision, but then it was even more stupid to bang a coworker and then think you might not lose your job. Obviously your wife and mine did not think or make a good decision, but because the affair may cause financial repercussions was on my wife and yours, squarely. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Mario Kempes

Good post, Drifting On. Are you and your wife still together?

Did the OM quit his job? 

If you and your wife are still together, how are things now?


----------



## drifting on

Mario Kempes said:


> Good post, Drifting On. Are you and your wife still together?
> 
> Did the OM quit his job?
> 
> If you and your wife are still together, how are things now?




Thank you, although I wish I knew nothing of workplace affairs or infidelity. My d-day was 1/20/14, we are still together in reconciliation. The OM quit in April of 2014, so I lasted less then three full months of them working together. Lately I have found a little peace and happiness. Each day is better then the day before, but that comes with hard work by both spouses. In my opinion I don't think gloomy's wife is anywhere near ready to reconcile. Not that gloomy is either, but he's stated that's what he's leaning towards. Gloomy needs much more information before he can ones fly consider reconciliation. But I don't see why gloomy and his wife can't reconcile if she becomes honest and installs boundaries.


----------



## theDrifter

drifting on said:


> Thank you, although I wish I knew nothing of workplace affairs or infidelity. My d-day was 1/20/14, we are still together in reconciliation. The OM quit in April of 2014, so I lasted less then three full months of them working together. Lately I have found a little peace and happiness. Each day is better then the day before, but that comes with hard work by both spouses. In my opinion I don't think gloomy's wife is anywhere near ready to reconcile. Not that gloomy is either, but he's stated that's what he's leaning towards. Gloomy needs much more information before he can ones fly consider reconciliation. But I don't see why gloomy and his wife can't reconcile if she becomes honest and installs boundaries.


What if you & WW had been childless?


----------



## Mario Kempes

drifting on said:


> Thank you, although I wish I knew nothing of workplace affairs or infidelity. My d-day was 1/20/14, we are still together in reconciliation. The OM quit in April of 2014, so I lasted less then three full months of them working together. Lately I have found a little peace and happiness. Each day is better then the day before, but that comes with hard work by both spouses. In my opinion I don't think gloomy's wife is anywhere near ready to reconcile. Not that gloomy is either, but he's stated that's what he's leaning towards. Gloomy needs much more information before he can ones fly consider reconciliation. But I don't see why gloomy and his wife can't reconcile if she becomes honest and installs boundaries.


I wish both of you peace and happiness, Drifting On.


----------



## BetrayedDad

TheTruthHurts said:


> Personally I think her boundaries got the better of her and this may have been a ONS


Maybe.... I just wonder if their was an emotional affair with this guy at work prior. 

Even as innocuous as perhaps casual flirting or eye fvcking each other could have set the stage. 

Why was this coworker at the event anyway? She needed a hotel so it couldn't have been close to home.

And he just "happened" to be there? Coincidentally? There is a real possibility she PURPOSELY put herself in this position.


----------



## toblerone

I think it is more possible that she had some sort of attraction to the man and had the thought of something happening in the back of her head, and then consciously put herself into situations to make an affair more likely- while not actually trying to put anything in place like some sort of huge scheme.

By the time she was in the hotel room, they were both probably playing the waiting game until someone made the first move. It was inevitable at that point.

Alcohol didn't cause it to happen, it just allowed her to make it easier to ignore what she chose to do.


----------



## sokillme

TheTruthHurts said:


> Yeah I totally get your opinion because you've shared it multiple times. I just don't agree hence my opinion
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As you have shared yours. I think it is way too soon to assume this was just a ONS, I have just read too many posts to believe that just because she confessed. They all say it was a ONS. Minimizing is a cheaters goto. 

What's the rush exactly? If he waits and does some research, waits to see if she is really sorry (after all he says she is already pushing back), he proves it was a ONS then he will have a better chance. If he rushes without all the information he is leaving himself totally exposed to more pain in the future. She doesn't deserve the benefit.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

sokillme said:


> As you have shared yours. I think it is way too soon to assume this was just a ONS, I have just read too many posts to believe that just because she confessed. They all say it was a ONS. Minimizing is a cheaters goto.
> 
> What's the rush exactly? If he waits and does some research, waits to see if she is really sorry (after all he says she is already pushing back), he proves it was a ONS then he will have a better chance. If he rushes without all the information he is leaving himself totally exposed to more pain in the future. She doesn't deserve the benefit.




And I disagree. No need to respond to me btw. You and I can independently provide our feedback.

Mine is based on other things that go on in a LTR that lead me to believe that it's possible to cheat and not be a 100% evil, duplicitous, conniving person. Just someone with weak boundaries, in a little MLC, with a huge ego boost from a very much younger OS coworker.

Btw even a ONS might be it for me - it's not necessarily "better". But I do think it's important to at least try to understand the context.

And as I've already stated I am 100% against OS relationships in a LTR 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dannip

Gloomy Sunday said:


> I inspected all communication between my wife and the culprit. I have checked the phone records and so far nothing gives me the impression that this was pre-meditated, at least on her behalf. In the past months there are only 4 days of communication (texts messages and two comments that he posted on her facebook page), and this was right before and during the convention. She never deleted the text messages or FB comments between them and showed them to me. The only thing that sounds suspect is a message from him on the last day asking her if she wants to hang out and have a drink with him and a bunch of friends in his hotel room.
> 
> Many of you think that our mutual friend was up to no good with my wife and I would have to totally disagree. This man is like a brother to my wife and I. We are close to him, his wife and his son. If he did something with her or knew about what she was up to, he would tell me. I remember him once telling me that he went to a bachelor party and got a lap dance. He felt so guilty that he told his wife about it afterwards because he felt that what he did was inappropriate.
> 
> I read an e-mail that he sent to my wife days after all of this happened and he doesn’t know anything. In that e-mail he says that he was angry at her for being constantly intoxicated and did not want to be around her, so he was avoiding her for most of the time. The reason for this is because he does not drink and finds intoxicated people annoying.
> 
> Although I would like her to, it is not possible for my wife to quit her job. Before she took a break last month, a new contract was drawn up and she committed herself to working there until the end of the year. What she is doing is similar to consulting and the pay is very good. She gets along well with her superiors and they let her choose her own schedule. She will only be there for two days a week and the rest of the week she is at her other job. Right now finances are tight and we can’t afford for her to leave that place. Besides, I work about 15-20 minutes away and I’ve told her that once she goes back there, I might decide to drop by every once in a while to pay her a visit. Since she could not behave like a responsible adult, I will be monitoring her phone, facebook, e-mail, etc… If she goes out with her friends and I don’t feel comfortable, I may even decide to pop up by surprise wherever she is. She had the trust and she blew it so she will have to pay the consequences.
> 
> After all of this happened she said that if I wanted to know, she would tell me who it was. I declined because I was so upset that I would not believe her. I found out for who the culprit was because when I looked at the phone records I noticed a build up in activity from a certain number (that was not there before) during that weekend that has the same area code as the town she works in. Then when I looked at her facebook page I noticed a comment from someone I did not know who’s description contains where they work at.
> 
> Right now no one except for the marriage counselor and the support group organizer know what has happened. I would rather keep this quiet but if I suspect that there is any more funny business going on I will blow up her spot in a heartbeat to her friends, family, co-workers, etc…
> 
> Right now she is remorseful and resentful but in the numb state I am in it is very difficult for me to process it. She says that she will do anything to make things right and we are attending joint counseling. She made an appointment with her OBGYN for next week at my request. I will also be attending a support group by myself. Right now I see a difficult but not impossible road ahead of me and I do not want to do anything to ruin it. What scares me is that I feel one day I might go out for drinks with friends and feel drunk, horny and stupid, and because of what was done to me I possibly will not be able to contain myself.


NOTE:Your friend. He got a lap dance. He did not turn it down!!

I wonder about this friend. Why did he not call you and say she was misbehaving. Getting drunk so you could contact her. 

It's not his fault but geeze. Weak boundaries too. 

Have you recovered deleted texts, pictures from her cell phone yet? Put a voice recorder in her car yet?


----------



## alexm

This x1000.

I've known my wife since we were in our mid-teens. We were together for several years, then apart for a decade and a half, and together again for almost 10 now.

If she were to cheat, I'd be gone, plain and simple. Taking the history we have and throwing it away for one night - nope.

And blaming alcohol - weakest excuse ever invented. We've all been drunk. If your brain and body functions enough to ****, it functions enough to know right from wrong. Sure, we've all probably done some pretty dumb things after drinking - but we know they're dumb, or dangerous, or downright idiotic. We do it for a laugh, and because our inhibitions are lowered. I used to drink a lot when I was younger, and I did some DUMB things - but I always knew what was happening. I knew what the repercussions could be, and that prevented me from doing some REALLY dumb things - like cheating, or fighting, or purposefully hurting someone. I knew, even while intoxicated, that alcohol was not an excuse for hurting someone in any way.

That said, OP's wife confessing like that was good. Regardless of the reasons (getting ahead of it, might have been found out, etc.) - she did it.

Admitting that she was horny - hard to hear, but completely honest.

I don't like the bringing up of alcohol, but it's such a go-to excuse for so many people it's almost to be expected. I suppose it would be harder to hear your partner cheated while sober, so I'll give her that.

But man, OP, you need to evaluate what your self-worth is, here. It's a difficult thing to think about, but it's legitimate. If you stay with her, this will stay with you, as well. It'll be with you when you're 70, 80 and 90, should you live that long. The life, and the marriage, you had before - gone.

Put it this way - no matter how you slice it, you're starting again. You can either do it with the woman who threw away the past 20 years, or with someone else who has not, and may not ever, hurt you. That's for you to decide, and don't let anyone here tell you one way is right and one way is wrong - they're all just opinions. I know what I'd do, but I'm not you.




sokillme said:


> I am terribly sorry for you. But I don't want to give you a false picture of what you are accepting if you just move forward.
> 
> What should scare you and more so her is when the shock and trauma wear off, when you see the situation with clarity without the understandable desperation you are in now. Then your marriage will get hard, as they all do, that is when most men like you have the hardest time. That seems to be when they wake up and feel like they were taken advantaged of because they were faithful and their wife wasn't. There are so many posts of men 10 years later who just slowly lost love and respect for their wives because of the disloyalty. The sad thing is the 10 years they wasted. This is why it's really not good to make a decision quickly. It makes much more sense to accept the marriage is dead, detach emotional, and then decide if you want to start over with this new less loyal women your wife is. It speeds up this process. Maybe she will have done enough to prove to you that she is worth it.
> 
> (I will say her being resentful is not a very good start.) What is she doing to facilitate your healing anyway, besides crying? Has she gotten books, posted on boards, decided to go to IC, written you and apology? Why did you have to book the STD test? After the pain she has caused you she should be trying to win you back and working her ass off. But then you have completely taking her off the hook by jumping back so this has probably just empowered her to continue with her selfish thinking. Again why it's not good to rush this stuff.
> 
> Another thing you need to understand is not to try to get your old marriage back, because that is a goose chase. You are only going to end up disappointed. Recognize right now today that the marriage is dead, if you stay with this women this will now always be a part of the dynamic of your new marriage. If faithfulness was a part of what you cherished most in the relationship the loss will be harder. In your first post you called her your soulmate which says to me that you tend to romanticize your relationships and your partner. This is going to be a hard thing to square with her actions.
> 
> With that being said, the most difficult but best advice I can give you is, if you are serious about staying with this women, in my opinion, you need to kill this kind of Disney like fairy tail about her now, today. It will prevent you from truly moving on. Your wife is a women who traded in 20 years of love and loyalty from you for some tawdry drunken sex, on a whim it seems. Accept it! Don't fight it. That is the ONLY way forward for you. The reason I say this is you see the ones who don't accept it and look for a magic key to explain it away and continue there fairy tail thinking end up stuck. There is no secret key to all this, there is only the truth, pure selfishness and cruelty. Accept it!
> 
> After you get that, then and only then decide if THIS women is the one you want to commit the rest of your life to.
> 
> Finally your wife's actions seem so out of character I still wonder if you have the whole truth and really know who she is. I would schedule a polygraph if it were me to check if she is telling the truth and if this is the first time. Something seems off, I don't believe the story. Also I would tell the guy she went on the trip with. She deserves to feel some shame for what she did because it is shameful, and he should know how he was used to facilitate cheating. Are you sure you want to deal with the idea that she is going to be seeing this guy she betrayed you with? That seems like a Recipe for disaster.


----------



## drifting on

theDrifter said:


> What if you & WW had been childless?




Honestly, my belief was if I were cheated on, relationship over. When it happened, I found that the belief I had wasn't so black and white. If my wife and I could not have a civil, loving, caring atmosphere for the boys, I would have divorced. As it is we are providing that atmosphere for the boys and have never argued about the affair with the boys within earshot. We provide a stable loving home that nurtures our boys to be independent and good people, if we couldn't provide that and our relationship were toxic, then it's time to pull the plug.


----------



## Taxman

There are few ways back, even if it was just an ONS. He has to determine whether or not she is telling the truth. If it were me, I would first ask her to leave the home, as I am big on consequence. Then, she has to tell, that includes the workplace. I do not care if she loses her job, even though it would effect any separation, too damn bad. She needs the embarrassment that comes with fuxking up so royally. Finally, she has to know that she has completely endangered the marriage. If it was just an ONS, I would be dipping my wick into some strange, and letting her know EXACTLY what I was up to. Consequences. One bets that her husband having sex with a random woman has not crossed her mind, now it will. One hopes that the image of her husband having an affair with another woman should be burned into her retinas.


----------



## turnera

I agree. No reconciliation without real consequences.


----------



## drifting on

File for divorce, list adultery and OM as the reason. Inform the HR of the company she is consulting for, they may terminate her contract for the WS. Then tell your wife she will need to find another consulting job and the financial consequences will be hers to own as well. Crap happens when you have sex with your coworker. Just sayin.


----------



## ihatethis

TheTruthHurts said:


> OP never said his WW had that tendency - in fact, quite the opposite and she was much like you.
> 
> Either she's lying and has cheated in the past, or she's like you and was so sure she wouldn't cheat that she did not protect herself.
> 
> You sound young to me for some reason - perhaps your defiant attitude. And although I have total control as does my W, neither of us if foolish enough to believe infidelity is impossible.
> 
> Every day smart people are taken in by scammers and fraudsters. Does that mean they're weak or stupid? I don't think so, but I know smart people can make mistakes, and so can honest people.
> 
> Good luck to you, and more importantly your partner or future partner
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not saying that infidelity is impossible (so please don't assume), I am well aware that it is not. But I am mature and smart enough to know that every human being has limits. The male friends that I have, 98% of them are ones I've had for 25+ years, before my SO. 

The amazing thing in my relationship is that we have a mutual understanding that life long friends (same sex and opposite) are part of our lives (no secrets) and both understand our limits and boundaries. As I stated previously, there is a difference with having OS friendships where you are hiding them, not letting them around your SO, etc. None of which I'm stating is ok, nor what I am doing. So, no good luck is needed, but thank you.


----------



## ihatethis

bandit.45 said:


> Marriage is a privilege, not a right.
> 
> If this story is true, her being told what she is allowed or not allowed to do is not the issue here. She was enjoying the privilege of being married to a faithful husband while enjoying the further privilege of having male friends with her husband's blessings, and she abused that privilege.
> 
> I think she should be willing to give up the privilege of having male friends outside her family.


I wasn't referring to the wife of being what told to do or not to do. I am talking about myself as I was commenting on a post. 

Again, as I read earlier (if what he initially stated was true) she did not cheat on him with the male mutual friend, but with a random.

And yes, if my SO cheated on me, or vice versa, being around the OS without your spouse, should not be okay, as I mentioned.


----------



## Chuck71

BetrayedDad said:


> Maybe....* I just wonder if their was an emotional affair with this guy at work prior. *
> 
> Even as innocuous as perhaps casual flirting or eye fvcking each other could have set the stage.
> 
> Why was this coworker at the event anyway? She needed a hotel so it couldn't have been close to home.
> 
> And he just "happened" to be there? Coincidentally? There is a real possibility she PURPOSELY put herself in this position.


Oh....... bet the farm on that!! It is rare for a female to go straight PA without the EA

"chase" first. After the chase and the capture.... is where it gets interesting. If he does not dump

her... enter affair fog. If he does.... multiple outcomes could apply.


----------



## WonkyNinja

BetrayedDad said:


> Maybe.... I just wonder if their was an emotional affair with this guy at work prior.
> 
> Even as innocuous as perhaps casual flirting or eye fvcking each other could have set the stage.
> 
> Why was this coworker at the event anyway? She needed a hotel so it couldn't have been close to home.
> 
> And he just "happened" to be there? Coincidentally? There is a real possibility she PURPOSELY put herself in this position.


If it was a work related conference then it's very common for more than one, or all, of the employees in a company to attend as well as many others in the same industry. 

It sounds a little odd that she had to share a room on a work related trip however, although that was irrelevant in this instance. Maybe I'm just lucky that everywhere I've worked it has been each to their own room on trips. I know others who have had to share though.


----------



## arobk

WonkyNinja said:


> If it was a work related conference then it's very common for more than one, or all, of the employees in a company to attend as well as many others in the same industry.
> 
> It sounds a little odd that she had to share a room on a work related trip however, although that was irrelevant in this instance. Maybe I'm just lucky that everywhere I've worked it has been each to their own room on trips. I know others who have had to share though.


Some companies will pay the conference fee and a set amount for travel and accommodations. Then it is up to the employees to take care of the rest.


----------



## Chuck71

The work conferences I went on, while being a public school teacher, we were split into twos. I would get 

the old history teacher dude, and we both smoked. Which was cool since I could get into a speculative

history debate with him -What if the Holy Roman Empire was still a semi-power come World War 1, how

could this have changed the landscape of Europe?- Sometimes one of the guys would end up

getting stuck with a female co-worker in same room. Two options.... county would pay 50%

of cost for one to get single room or just deal with it. The two teachers would split the 50% as well. 

Course the mix was usually a 60-70 y / o female teacher and a 25 y / o guy. Never had any 

issues in that match-up. *Shocker*


----------



## Gloomy Sunday

Sorry for the delayed response. So much going through my head right now that it has become very difficult to focus on things. I am also finding it more difficult to express myself properly without letting my emotions get in the way. Sorry for any miscommunication, but since I'm new here I still don't have a grasp on all of the TAM terminology/jargon. Things have gotten a bit better but it's still too soon. I think that now she is starting to better process the damage she has done and will have to deal with the consequences and repercussions of her actions. Thank you all for your responses. I will now take the time to reply to some of them. Sorry if I can't cover everything.




Taxman said:


> Gloomy
> It is likely your WW was trying to recapture her youth. Mid-40's and stable relationship add up to, "Where is the young and desireable girl I used to be"? This is no excuse whatsoever, and in my experience is the leading cause of divorce at mid life. The drunkeness is, I am sorry to say, just an excuse for being selfish. Now, she has to pay.
> 
> She will need some severe consequences to her actions. If this was an ONS, then Gloomy, go out and find another woman to make love to. Then let your WW know that you stepped out because she did. In fact tell her before you do so, as my wife did to me. Makes them REALLY understand because they anticipate, hope and pray that you will not go through with it, and when you do, the devastation is EXACTLY the same as when they did it to you. Make a point of having your partner be younger and prettier than your wife.
> 
> Give her exquisite detail of everything just so she knows what happened. Then, if you feel like it, you may offer your wife reconciliation. Do not give her that gift until she has been punished. Some feel it better to have a separation before getting revenge. I say strike while the iron is hot. If this is as she said, then blindsiding her with a revenge affair will blow her world to smitherines.


The thought of doing the same has crossed my mind and maybe I will follow through. I have mentioned it to her and if she doesn't like it, tough. The only thing is that I would not call it revenge, I would call justice.



GusPolinski said:


> New job or you might as well divorce.


A new job will not be possible at least for the next 3-6 months. On top of all this we don't want to be homeless.



jsmart said:


> This was definitely planned. As a matter of fact, things could have been brewing for a while, kissing on a lunch dates, but was taken to the next level that night.


After investigating I've found out that this was not planned. No kissing, lunch dates, etc. They work in separate departments and barely come in contact.



sokillme said:


> (I will say her being resentful is not a very good start.) What is she doing to facilitate your healing anyway, besides crying? Has she gotten books, posted on boards, decided to go to IC, written you and apology? Why did you have to book the STD test? After the pain she has caused you she should be trying to win you back and working her ass off. But then you have completely taking her off the hook by jumping back so this has probably just empowered her to continue with her selfish thinking. Again why it's not good to rush this stuff.


I did not mean to say resentful, I meant repentful. She is reading material and attending joint counseling with me. She booked an STD test because I told her so, especially in case if we ever get as intimate as we used to be in the future. I'm not trying to rush things.



bandit.45 said:


> OP, why do you call the other man the culprit? He didn't make vows to you and break them. He didn't betray your trust. He's not the one acting defensive and unremorseful.
> 
> Your wayward wife is the criminal here.


You'll have to forgive my use of words, I am new here and am not yet familiar with the jargon/terminology/abbreviations/etc. In the past week or so I have noticed a change that she is no longer defensive and starting to own up to the fact that she is 100% responsible for what happened.



TRy said:


> Did you check her burner phone? Did you even think of that? Your statement that you "inspected all communication" is nothing more than wishful thinking, as there are so many ways for cheaters to communicate without detection, no one that knows the facts would make such a statement.


No burner phone, she is very technically inept and doesn't even know how to use her own phone. She has answered every question I have asked and I have followed through by investigating and she has come clean. To her credit, she is a very honest person and has never lied to me. That is why she came clean about what happened. I've looked at the contact between her and our mutual friend that accompanied her and he has no clue about what happened, because just like me he would never think that she would do something so despicable.



TRy said:


> The problem is that as a couple you do not have normal marital boundaries in place. If your wife can share a hotel room overnight with another man, going over for a drink with a male coworker in his hotel room would not be crossing a line, like it would be for many couples. Your experiment with going without normal martial boundaries because she is a special snowflake has failed. It is easier to trust a spouse to respect pre-established boundaries that avoid such situations, then to trust a drunk spouse alone in a hotel room with a member of the opposite sex were their is mutual attraction.


Now that this happened I agree that I was very loose with boundaries, but then again she is the same way with me. I'm allowed to go and hang out with whoever I want (male or female), however late I want and it didn't bother her one bit. I trusted her and I always thought that she would never do something like this. She also feels the same way about me. But for now the rules will have to change, sucks that it had to come down to this.



destroyd said:


> Op, my WW also cheated with a younger coworker at work conferences etc... after reading your story I don't think you are even close to knowing the full truth. You are going to have to understand that she most likely has another life and work personna that is not the girl you married.


I have not specified the line of work she is in. Because of her job title and his title, this would not be possible. I did not say that the incident happened at a work conference, I said it was a "convention." More of a hobby type convention like a sci-fi convention, a comic book convention, music convention, etc. It wasn't exactly any of those, but I am not going to get into specifics just in case someone I know is on this board. The trip was not work related. The OM was there with some of his friends because lets say they are "geeks" for these types of things.



Graywolf2 said:


> You have no children. You lived together for almost 20 years as "soul-mates" and everything was fine. You recently promoted her to wife. Well she flunked the wife test. Divorce her and demote her back to soul-mate live in girlfriend. It was good enough for almost 20 years. Why must you remain married after she cheated? * Why is it all of a sudden vital to be married when it wasn't for almost 20 years? * Let her keep her job and divorce her. If she cheats again someone moves out.
> 
> It's ironic that she didn't cheat (as far as you know) until you married her.


Some good points, lets see what happens.



Satya said:


> I'm not going to beat you with 2x4s Gloomy, you're already getting plenty of that, but I am going to point a few things out and be very honest. You may disagree with my opinions but I used to have poor boundaries with men myself, so I feel pretty strongly about what I'm going to tell you.
> 
> When a woman agrees to go to a hotel room with guys to "have some drinks," she knows 1.) her inhibition will be severely lowered and 2.) she will feel sexier and
> 3.) she is clearly desired for her company.
> 
> All of those thoughts build excitement in a woman. That's just the truth IMO and anything else is noise. Alcohol makes us feel free to explore in ways we wouldn't dare when sober. Those sober "filters" protect us from making poor choices that we likely WANT to make but still have the willpower to prevent. The thought police can't stop your wife from finding a younger man attractive, any more than they could stop you from starting at a woman's behind in a tight summer dress.
> 
> Intentionally getting drunk is to KNOWINGLY disable those filters. When you're a woman without protection of a mate or close friend, that action is particularly foolhardy. Add in the elements of @turnera 's post about how men really view women they work with and you have all the ingredients to create a recipe for disaster.
> 
> That's why I and others say she has poor boundaries with men. She probably thought they made great friends when the truth is, they do.... AND they want in her pants. My present avatar is testament to the kind of truth I found difficult to accept at first, but once I did, suddenly my boundaries with men were strong. I learned and believe that men and women are of completely different mindsets when it comes to opposite sex friendships. I greatly appreciate and respect men in general, I have known some very upstanding blokes in my life, but the truth is that men will always be men. And thank the Universe for that, or we'd be a barren species.
> 
> I'm not sure how to put my sense of boundaries with men into words here, but some day I'll try. In my past, poor boundaries not only hurt myself but also the men that I knew. Those men are no longer in my life.
> 
> I think that your wife is still in an immature stage when it comes to understanding the nature of men. When husbands come here and say their wives have many male friends, or proportionately more male than female friends, or have NO female friends, I am greatly concerned in each case.
> 
> I think it's possible to heal from this, but you're going to need a severe action plan. Don't make decisions about anything when the pain is still raw. You owe it to yourself to be clear headed and thorough.


I don't fully disagree with what you've said. The thing is that she has been in situations like that before and nothing has ever happened. I have been in situations like that and nothing has ever happened. I guess you play with fire enough times, you will eventually get burned.



VFW said:


> I believe that most relationships can be saved if both parties work to solve the problem. However it has to start with the offending party to be honest and contrite. Some people forgive immediately, while other can never get over the hurt. Neither is right or wrong, it is just who you are as a person. Your wife did confess and has offered passwords and access to all media and devices, this is a good thing. Still she seems from your comments to be reluctant to accept full responsibility. I think that I would have her reveal her indiscretion to her parents, not as punishment but for cathartic and accountability exercise. We can not get up until we admit that we are down, we can't make things right until we admit that we are wrong. The relationship that you had is over and now you are at a crossroads in the relationship. You two have to find a way forward or you may be better parting ways. This is a decision that only you can make, but know the way forward will be arduous regardless. Best wishes to you and your family.


I think she is starting to feel some of the pain she has caused me. I would rather for now not tell any friends or family.



TX-SC said:


> It sounds to me like your wife is being honest about what happened and feels remorse for what she has done. She is doing everything that a wayward could be asked to do, including being open, not shifting blame or making excuses. The one major issue is her unwillingness to leave her job. But, since you say the two of you need her to keep her job, I assume it's a necessary evil.
> 
> So, your wife had a drunken ONS with a coworker. She came home and immediately told you what happened, gave you access to all social media, and offered to tell you who the OM is. When you said you didn't want to know, she respected your wishes. I don't see that as protecting the OM at your expense.


At first I didn't want her to tell me because I would refuse to believe her. I wanted to find out on my own and then confront her, which is what I did by looking at the phone records and using google.



TX-SC said:


> I really don't think this is the pre-planned affair that people here are pointing to. I think she got drunk and horny and decided to take what was available. What your wife is not telling you is that she has probably fantasized about cheating. After it happened, she realized that it wasn't what she thought it would be and is not worth losing her marriage over. Her conscience got the best of her and she knew she had to confess.


I agree with most of what you've said.



TX-SC said:


> I could be wrong, and your wife may be a horrible person who has cheated multiple times in the past. If so, I would certainly walk away and divorce. If your gut tells you that she is telling the truth, and you want to R, by all means do so. The trust will be gone for a long time, and your marriage can never truly be the same, but it can still be good and may even grow to be stronger.
> 
> Being Mr. Spiteful, the chances are that I would demand a hall pass, but you can be more adult than I would.


I am leaning toward reconciliation, but it is still too early and my brain function is not very sharp, anything can happen.



Quality said:


> Other than the last sentence about a "hall pass", just really nice to see a rational assessment.
> 
> Gloomy ~ you're on the ground making actual decisions about your life and with all the knowledge and experience of your 20 year relationship with this woman. Sometimes where there is smoke there's a huge city on the other side of the mountain burning to the ground but more often than not it's fully what it appears to be. Be smart and investigate the truth about your life but your wife isn't the same or destined to be the same as any poster's wife, ex-wife or ex-girlfriend {eye roll} here.


Thank you.



PreRaph said:


> I also wondered about this. She's resentful? About what exactly?


I meant to say repentful.



Quality said:


> You don't have to reconcile if you don't want to. You have a biblical "get out of marriage free" card and not every man can handle such betrayal. But if you choose to reconcile, I suggest doing so with the love and hope exemplified by Hosea as well as Jesus and many other forgiving folks throughout the Bible {and really throughout the world that have successfully restored their marriages}.


I'm not religious but thanks anyways.



Dannip said:


> Have you recovered deleted texts, pics and emails from her phone yet? They may speak more truth than she is.


I confirmed the amount of texts, etc. with the phone records and there was nothing inappropriate (except for maybe "Hey come to my room I'm hanging out with some friends and drinking") or anything deleted.



stillthinking said:


> Well Gloomy,
> 
> You have gotten a ton of advice here. Lots for you to think about. And since you are still is the shock stage, remember it may take you a while to start thinking straight.
> 
> Questions....
> 
> You have known her for 20 years. How do you think she would react if you had gotten drunk, ****ed a coworker, and stayed at the job? Would she be as understanding as you appear to be?
> 
> Might I suggest something? Perhaps start with step 1 before you go into Inspector Gadget/Prison Warden mode, with the random visits to the office and such. Maybe there is something you need to think about first. Do you want to spend the rest of your days with a cheater? Knowing what you do now, is she worth all of the pain to keep her in your life? Do you think you can ever be truly happy with her again?


If I would have done the same to her first who knows how she would have reacted, now she can't say a damn thing, whether I stay with her or not. Is she worth it, I don't know yet? It's too soon, only time will tell. All I can say is, that until this happened, I have never been happier with someone in my life. Again, before this happened she is the only person who truly understands me for who I am, has accepted my imperfections, and has always supported me in everything.



TheTruthHurts said:


> ...Personally I think her boundaries got the better of her and this may have been a ONS...


This is what I think.



Dannip said:


> ...I wonder about this friend. Why did he not call you and say she was misbehaving. Getting drunk so you could contact her.
> 
> It's not his fault but geeze. Weak boundaries too.


He is not to blame. He trusts her just like I did and it is not his responsibility to be her guardian. He's got a wife and kid who are his responsibility. He shouldn't have to sacrifice his time on a recreational trip to focus on babysitting a grown woman.




Dannip said:


> Have you recovered deleted texts, pictures from her cell phone yet?


There were none.


----------



## GusPolinski

Gloomy Sunday said:


> A new job will not be possible at least for the next 3-6 months. On top of all this we don't want to be homeless.


This is an either/or thing, man. You can't have it both ways.

So I guess it'll be divorce.

Sorry.


----------



## drifting on

Gloomy

I almost made three months with my wife working with OM. I don't have any idea how long you will last as I don't know you. There are some things you can do if you feel she must stay, but know I agree with Gus, you can't have both. However I gave it a go and I failed miserably, but here are some things you can do. I visited OM, let OM know if I see either talking to each other, HR will know. Visit OM at work, your wife can show you where he works, but you let him know that talking or communicating with your wifE is off limits. Your wife says she has to communicate with OM ten minutes a week, tell your wife that communication will be by email only. If she has an issue with this then she tells her boss, I will not communicate in any way with OM. Your wife can tell her boss here is what OM needs, you give it to him. 

Your wife made a stupid choice, coworker and then continuing to work with OM doesn't happen, someone else delivers what your wife has business to OM. If your wife cannot understand she is to have no contact with OM, then she needs to figure out how to get work related material to OM. Do not budge on this, it's your wife's stupid decision she even has to do this. So you let her figure it out. 

Your going to have some anxious moments ahead of you. I wish your wife were remorseful enough that she would not go back to that company ever, but that's on her. I firmly believe she could find something else, another contract, but right now it's not that important to her. So tell her how long you will let her stay there, and that she better be busting her ass to find something else. I feel for you brother, what's coming towards you is going to drive you crazy, literally. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Chuck71

drifting on said:


> Gloomy
> 
> I almost made three months with my wife working with OM. I don't have any idea how long you will last as I don't know you. There are some things you can do if you feel she must stay, but know I agree with Gus, you can't have both. However I gave it a go and I failed miserably, but here are some things you can do. I visited OM, let OM know if I see either talking to each other, HR will know. Visit OM at work, your wife can show you where he works, but you let him know that talking or communicating with your wifE is off limits. Your wife says she has to communicate with OM ten minutes a week, tell your wife that communication will be by email only. If she has an issue with this then she tells her boss, I will not communicate in any way with OM. Your wife can tell her boss here is what OM needs, you give it to him.
> 
> Your wife made a stupid choice, coworker and then continuing to work with OM doesn't happen, someone else delivers what your wife has business to OM. If your wife cannot understand she is to have no contact with OM, then she needs to figure out how to get work related material to OM. Do not budge on this, it's your wife's stupid decision she even has to do this. So you let her figure it out.
> 
> Your going to have some anxious moments ahead of you. I wish your wife were remorseful enough that she would not go back to that company ever, but that's on her. I firmly believe she could find something else, another contract, but right now it's not that important to her. So tell her how long you will let her stay there, and that she better be busting her ass to find something else. I feel for you brother, what's coming towards you is going to drive you crazy, literally. Best of luck to you.


But if HE has to do all this.... just to presume he is "safe" from a repeat (which is not true,

people will do what they want to), that seems like an awful lot of work. Would sound much better 

coming from HER. If "I" had to do all these things.... kids or not.... I'd walk.

Ain't worth the hassle. Even if this was a true ONS, there are BS here who still trigger over

a ONS years later. IbeGdamn if I would ever subject myself to that.


----------



## Chuck71

Gloomy......... thanks for the update. You and her worked well for, 20 years. Why not try the non-M

life again? A marriage certificate is a simple piece of paper. It is meaningless to the couple in

comparison to what the two spouses make of it. The only thing a certificate does is allow the

government to be involved, and HITF does that usually end up?

Whether it be one time or twelve, her actions broke your contract. Dissolve the contract. Re-negotiate

another one (divorce but still date, maybe move out for a short period). Gloomy.... many posters are saying

D her period because they have seen other threads much like this and the WS is forgiven, only

to find out later, it was not a ONS but several long term affairs. Maybe some WERE the BS.

My parents married, divorced, married again so I see NOTHING wrong with doing this if it

is needed. It could help both of you in the long run.... you can still R, after you divorce.


----------



## eric1

If she works with him she is still in contact with him. You literally have no way to confirm otherwise.

Take what path is necessary for you. Just know that healing will not begin until you are one billion percent sure she isn't in communication with him. Unless healing can begin your marriage will atrophy.


----------



## Chuck71

eric1 said:


> If she works with him she is still in contact with him. You literally have no way to confirm otherwise.
> 
> Take what path is necessary for you. Just know that healing will not begin until you are one billion percent sure she isn't in communication with him. Unless healing can begin your marriage will atrophy.


Or Gloomy you will end up with a thread like this.......

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/305850-new-here-but-not-new-infidelity.html

NewPhoenix5


----------



## turnera

I don't see this as the train wreck many of you always go straight to. Good marriage, no issues, weekend away, with a guy who likely has a dozen women at work he's doing the same thing with - buttering them up in case an opportunity arises, confessing as soon as she gets home, honesty, and repentant. There's no reason to assume she's some sl*t out to hook up with more men.


----------



## eric1

Chuck71 said:


> Or Gloomy you will end up with a thread like this.......
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/305850-new-here-but-not-new-infidelity.html
> 
> NewPhoenix5


In fact, speaking of NP5, he has been invaluable over on SI the past few days coaching "20yrsin". I encourage Gloomy to read NP5's advice very, very, very closely in that 20yrsin thread.

It's also a nice reminder that none of us are perfect and none of us would be here if we had all of the answers from Day One.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

eric1 said:


> In fact, speaking of NP5, he has been invaluable over on SI the past few days coaching "20yrsin". I encourage Gloomy to read NP5's advice very, very, very closely in that 20yrsin thread.
> 
> 
> 
> It's also a nice reminder that none of us are perfect and none of us would be here if we had all of the answers from Day One.




I'm not going over to SI but wondered if NP5 ever did anything about his distant WW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

turnera said:


> I don't see this as the train wreck


Okay, so it's quite possible this is _not as severe_ a train wreck as some would assume, but_ it is still a train wreck_. Maybe the locomotive can be salvaged in this one, but let's not minimize the difficulty of that task. 



turnera said:


> Good marriage, ...


Infidelity is the antitheses of "good marriage." If she is so easily seduced, that is clear indication this is not a good marriage. Some would even say that a casual ONS is even worse than an full blown affair; that one is willing to abandon their vows for something so meaningless--it shows a special kind of disregard for the union. 

I'm not advocating one way or the other--only that it be viewed with eyes fully open.


----------



## Taxman

Gloomy Sunday said:


> The thought of doing the same has crossed my mind and maybe I will follow through. I have mentioned it to her and if she doesn't like it, tough. The only thing is that I would not call it revenge, I would call justice.


That is exactly what my wife called it. She could not go back into the marriage feeling as if I got away with something. That was the simple explanation. The deeper explanation had little to do with revenge, although that is a definite result, it had more to do with her feeling like a desireable woman again, and she felt that if we had just reconciled, she would bear some animosity, as well as feel that the relationship would not be balanced. Therefore, she let me know a week in advance what her plans were. She was not specific, but there was a guy at work, and he asked her out, one quick drink and off to the motel. It hit me like a ton of bricks. No amount of inward directed loathing from my affair compared to the utter devastation. She asked me how I felt and I said it was as bad as having my balls kicked repeatedly. 

In your circumstances, this is a viable response from you. It will hurt her, just like she hurt you. It will achieve balance going forward. And IT IS JUSTICE PURE AND SIMPLE.


----------



## drifting on

Chuck71 said:


> But if HE has to do all this.... just to presume he is "safe" from a repeat (which is not true,
> 
> people will do what they want to), that seems like an awful lot of work. Would sound much better
> 
> coming from HER. If "I" had to do all these things.... kids or not.... I'd walk.
> 
> Ain't worth the hassle. Even if this was a true ONS, there are BS here who still trigger over
> 
> a ONS years later. IbeGdamn if I would ever subject myself to that.




I can understand your post here perfectly, some of this I also felt, but there were many other factors as to why I did what I did. First the affair ended two and a half years prior, OM wanted the affair to continue but my wife shut him down. Second my wife offered to quit immediately, did talk to her boss about quitting, it was then my choice that she stay. I thought I could handle it, instead it was something I handled incorrectly. I've admitted to making many mistakes in the beginning, this is one, and a huge mistake at that. I wanted to think I still had some strength, instead I learned just how destroyed I was. 

My wife set up other people to get him messages that were work related, but she couldn't do it for all, and that is what damaged the most. It was impossible to have no contact, I understood this, but in the end it failed miserably. I had to take medication as time went on to stop the panic attacks. My wife went to her boss and tried to quit, he would have none of it and contacted me as we are mutual friends. At that point I began to put the pressure on OM to quit, and that I had success with, it only took two weeks. 

So as I said you will be in for some very anxious moments, and I guarantee you will suffer because of it. I don't advise this way, but understand where you are coming from to try this path. Prepare yourself, what you thought was anxiety now is a walk in the park considering what's ahead of you. Good luck.


----------



## syhoybenden

TheTruthHurts said:


> I'm not going over to SI but wondered if NP5 ever did anything about his distant WW
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



My take is that he seems to think that he has her on a short leash now.


----------



## bandit.45

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Okay, so it's quite possible this is _not as severe_ a train wreck as some would assume, but_ it is still a train wreck_. Maybe the locomotive can be salvaged in this one, but let's not minimize the difficulty of that task.
> 
> 
> Infidelity is the antitheses of "good marriage." If she is so easily seduced, that is clear indication this is not a good marriage. Some would even say that a casual ONS is even worse than an full blown affair; that one is willing to abandon their vows for something so meaningless--it shows a special kind of disregard for the union.
> 
> I'm not advocating one way or the other--only that it be viewed with eyes fully open.


If I'm not mistaken Turnera posted that in jest. She was being facetious.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

bandit.45 said:


> If I'm not mistaken Turnera posted that in jest. She was being facetious.


Well, that is more in line with what I would have expected from her. If I misunderstood, I apologize. The sarcasm was subtle enough to escape me in that one.


----------



## turnera

I wasn't being facetious. They've been together 20 years and only recently got married. You don't do that if you're having problems, unless it was some sort of ultimatum, which he has not mentioned. He says they considered each other soulmates and were totally honest with each other (until this). Hell, even after this, she went right on and told him. 

I'm just as ready as the rest of you to kick cheaters in the rear if they show themselves to be jerks or unremorseful or try to lie or hide it. She did none of this. And it was - as far as we know - only the one time. Which she confessed immediately. 

So I don't see why the rush to label her a skank when she doesn't even come close to being as bad as 99% of the cheaters we see here.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

turnera said:


> I wasn't being facetious. They've been together 20 years and only recently got married. You don't do that if you're having problems, unless it was some sort of ultimatum, which he has not mentioned. He says they considered each other soulmates and were totally honest with each other (until this). Hell, even after this, she went right on and told him.
> 
> I'm just as ready as the rest of you to kick cheaters in the rear if they show themselves to be jerks or unremorseful or try to lie or hide it. She did none of this. And it was - as far as we know - only the one time. Which she confessed immediately.
> 
> So I don't see why the rush to label her a skank when she doesn't even come close to being as bad as 99% of the cheaters we see here.


Well, that depends on your threshold for "skankiness." For most, _any_ infidelity crosses that line. Most wouldn't make that call before the "I Dos" but after, that's a very egregious crossing of a well defined and understood line. 

Remorseful or not, this was a huge breach of trust. More possibly salvageable than a full blown long term affair or serial cheating, but still not something I would call a "good marriage" or try to rug sweep as a minor, one-time infraction.


----------



## turnera

I never said it wasn't. I just said this particular case isn't to the level of outrageousness to which some people are assigning it.


----------



## Chuck71

My option of D and still date / live together was not meant in any way as punishment for her but

more for Gloomy. When one discovers the fling / affair all they want "right then" is for the pain to go away.

Rugswept and.... things are pretty good.... for maybe 4-6-8 months.... that's when the resentment

comes in for the BS. Realizing the other was let off the hook way too easy. Then comes Round 2.

Round 2 is much uglier than 1. And that's IF.... nothing additional was found.

Thanks to trickle truths.... added occurrences usually come out as time passes...... watering that

big bad arse resentment tree out in the back yard.


----------



## jlg07

eric1 said:


> In fact, speaking of NP5, he has been invaluable over on SI the past few days coaching "20yrsin". I encourage Gloomy to read NP5's advice very, very, very closely in that 20yrsin thread.
> 
> It's also a nice reminder that none of us are perfect and none of us would be here if we had all of the answers from Day One.


How do you search on SI for this stuff? I don't see any search facility on the forums site?


----------



## Bobby5000

I suppose because I have been married for a long time that I take a different approach. People mess up, they make mistakes. I have seen some situations where wives threatened divorces because their husbands took out loans to support their businesses. (see a lot of women say I am partly responsible for my husband's successes, but not too many take responsibility for their failures). 

If this was just one time, and she did fess up, personally I would let it go and could go forward. That said, the strange scenario with a wife with a room with another man, how this kid got to the hotel, etc. leaves open the possibility of a greater problem. 

So I vote for forgiveness but with further investigation.


----------



## Gloomy Sunday

GusPolinski said:


> This is an either/or thing, man. You can't have it both ways.
> 
> So I guess it'll be divorce.
> 
> Sorry.


I guess I'll have to figure out something.



drifting on said:


> Gloomy
> 
> I almost made three months with my wife working with OM. I don't have any idea how long you will last as I don't know you. There are some things you can do if you feel she must stay, but know I agree with Gus, you can't have both. However I gave it a go and I failed miserably, but here are some things you can do. I visited OM, let OM know if I see either talking to each other, HR will know. Visit OM at work, your wife can show you where he works, but you let him know that talking or communicating with your wifE is off limits. Your wife says she has to communicate with OM ten minutes a week, tell your wife that communication will be by email only. If she has an issue with this then she tells her boss, I will not communicate in any way with OM. Your wife can tell her boss here is what OM needs, you give it to him.


Because of the nature of the job the communication has to be in person. The OM does not work in an office and have access to email, his job is more of a blue collar type position. If a certain situation arises my wife and others in her position have to delegate tasks over to him.



Chuck71 said:


> Gloomy......... thanks for the update. You and her worked well for, 20 years. Why not try the non-M life again? A marriage certificate is a simple piece of paper. It is meaningless to the couple in comparison to what the two spouses make of it. The only thing a certificate does is allow the government to be involved, and HITF does that usually end up? Whether it be one time or twelve, her actions broke your contract. Dissolve the contract. Re-negotiate another one (divorce but still date, maybe move out for a short period). Gloomy.... many posters are saying D her period because they have seen other threads much like this and the WS is forgiven, only to find out later, it was not a ONS but several long term affairs.Maybe some WERE the BS. My parents married, divorced, married again so I see NOTHING wrong with doing this if it is needed. It could help both of you in the long run.... you can still R, after you divorce.


That could be a possibility, will have to think about it and evaluate.



eric1 said:


> If she works with him she is still in contact with him. You literally have no way to confirm otherwise. Take what path is necessary for you. Just know that healing will not begin until you are one billion percent sure she isn't in communication with him. Unless healing can begin your marriage will atrophy.


Thanks for the advice.



Chuck71 said:


> Or Gloomy you will end up with a thread like this.......
> 
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> NewPhoenix5


It says that my account can't access the link.



turnera said:


> I don't see this as the train wreck many of you always go straight to. Good marriage, no issues, weekend away, with a guy who likely has a dozen women at work he's doing the same thing with - buttering them up in case an opportunity arises, confessing as soon as she gets home, honesty, and repentant. There's no reason to assume she's some sl*t out to hook up with more men.


I agree, but it will take some time for me to be sure about it, her actions will have to speak louder than her words.



eric1 said:


> In fact, speaking of NP5, he has been invaluable over on SI the past few days coaching "20yrsin". I encourage Gloomy to read NP5's advice very, very, very closely in that 20yrsin thread.
> 
> It's also a nice reminder that none of us are perfect and none of us would be here if we had all of the answers from Day One.


I will look into it.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Okay, so it's quite possible this is _not as severe_ a train wreck as some would assume, but_ it is still a train wreck_. Maybe the locomotive can be salvaged in this one, but let's not minimize the difficulty of that task.
> 
> Infidelity is the antitheses of "good marriage." If she is so easily seduced, that is clear indication this is not a good marriage. Some would even say that a casual ONS is even worse than an full blown affair; that one is willing to abandon their vows for something so meaningless--it shows a special kind of disregard for the union.
> 
> I'm not advocating one way or the other--only that it be viewed with eyes fully open.


I agree.



Taxman said:


> That is exactly what my wife called it. She could not go back into the marriage feeling as if I got away with something. That was the simple explanation. The deeper explanation had little to do with revenge, although that is a definite result, it had more to do with her feeling like a desireable woman again, and she felt that if we had just reconciled, she would bear some animosity, as well as feel that the relationship would not be balanced. Therefore, she let me know a week in advance what her plans were. She was not specific, but there was a guy at work, and he asked her out, one quick drink and off to the motel. It hit me like a ton of bricks. No amount of inward directed loathing from my affair compared to the utter devastation. She asked me how I felt and I said it was as bad as having my balls kicked repeatedly.
> 
> In your circumstances, this is a viable response from you. It will hurt her, just like she hurt you. It will achieve balance going forward. And IT IS JUSTICE PURE AND SIMPLE.


I fully agree with your wife. 


*"An act of justice closes the book on a misdeed; an act of vengeance writes one of its own."* 

- Marilyn vos Savant




turnera said:


> I wasn't being facetious. They've been together 20 years and only recently got married. You don't do that if you're having problems, unless it was some sort of ultimatum, which he has not mentioned. He says they considered each other soulmates and were totally honest with each other (until this). Hell, even after this, she went right on and told him. I'm just as ready as the rest of you to kick cheaters in the rear if they show themselves to be jerks or unremorseful or try to lie or hide it. She did none of this. And it was - as far as we know - only the one time. Which she confessed immediately. So I don't see why the rush to label her a skank when she doesn't even come close to being as bad as 99% of the cheaters we see here.





Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Well, that depends on your threshold for "skankiness." For most, _any_ infidelity crosses that line. Most wouldn't make that call before the "I Dos" but after, that's a very egregious crossing of a well defined and understood line.
> 
> Remorseful or not, this was a huge breach of trust. More possibly salvageable than a full blown long term affair or serial cheating, but still not something I would call a "good marriage" or try to rug sweep as a minor, one-time infraction.





turnera said:


> I never said it wasn't. I just said this particular case isn't to the level of outrageousness to which some people are assigning it.


I agree with all of these quotes.



Chuck71 said:


> My option of D and still date / live together was not meant in any way as punishment for her but more for Gloomy. When one discovers the fling / affair all they want "right then" is for the pain to go away. Rugswept and.... things are pretty good.... for maybe 4-6-8 months.... that's when the resentment comes in for the BS. Realizing the other was let off the hook way too easy. Then comes Round 2. Round 2 is much uglier than 1. And that's IF.... nothing additional was found. Thanks to trickle truths.... added occurrences usually come out as time passes...... watering that big bad arse resentment tree out in the back yard.


Hopefully there won't be a round two, but at this point anything is possible.



Bobby5000 said:


> ...I vote for forgiveness but with further investigation.


For me, forgiveness will be a multi-step process that will take time.


----------



## Taxman

Gloomy, keep us in the loop. What is going on now?


----------



## Stang197

Taxman said:


> Gloomy Sunday said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thought of doing the same has crossed my mind and maybe I will follow through. I have mentioned it to her and if she doesn't like it, tough. The only thing is that I would not call it revenge, I would call justice.
> 
> 
> 
> That is exactly what my wife called it. She could not go back into the marriage feeling as if I got away with something. That was the simple explanation. The deeper explanation had little to do with revenge, although that is a definite result, it had more to do with her feeling like a desireable woman again, and she felt that if we had just reconciled, she would bear some animosity, as well as feel that the relationship would not be balanced. Therefore, she let me know a week in advance what her plans were. She was not specific, but there was a guy at work, and he asked her out, one quick drink and off to the motel. It hit me like a ton of bricks. No amount of inward directed loathing from my affair compared to the utter devastation. She asked me how I felt and I said it was as bad as having my balls kicked repeatedly.
> 
> In your circumstances, this is a viable response from you. It will hurt her, just like she hurt you. It will achieve balance going forward. And IT IS JUSTICE PURE AND SIMPLE.
Click to expand...


This is what I did. Can't say that it took the pain away though. You DO feel a sense of justice at first. Then the pain comes back. I kept doing over and over. Then I almost left my family for one of these flings. One of them said I got her pregnant. Turned into a different mess. If you do go down this road be prepared to not only hurt your wife but also hurt the other people you get involved with. You could be upfront to keep the hurt feelings to a minimum but I found women usually don't want to get involved unless the think they have a shot at a relationship.


----------



## straightshooter

Gloomy,

You can end all the speculation and guessing and digging with one simple word.
POLYGRAPH

You tell her or don't te;l;l her that she is taking a polygraph test because you have to know the truth. I'd do it unannounced in about four weeks. Your four simple questions
(1) since marriage had you had any sexual activity with any other men other that Om and Gloomy
(2) are you in contact with Om on any social media or apps that Gloomy does not have access to
(3) was the meet up in his room preplanned
(4) have you been alone with OM since D Day.
Those are yes no questions that will let you know the truth, without which you will get blindsided. She should be slobbering at the bit to take the test.


----------



## Chuck71

straightshooter said:


> Gloomy,
> 
> You can end all the speculation and guessing and digging with one simple word.
> POLYGRAPH
> 
> You tell her or don't te;l;l her that she is taking a polygraph test because you have to know the truth. I'd do it unannounced in about four weeks. Your four simple questions
> (1) since marriage had you had any sexual activity with any other men other that Om and Gloomy
> (2) are you in contact with Om on any social media or apps that Gloomy does not have access to
> (3) was the meet up in his room preplanned
> (4) have you been alone with OM since D Day.
> Those are yes no questions that will let you know the truth, without which you will get blindsided. She should be slobbering at the bit to take the test.


(5) was the conference the only time you had sex with om.


----------



## Taxman

We are all giving you some extreme advice. Many say poly, many say revenge. All that aside gloomy, what do you want? Will she cheat again? What is she doing to make herself safe. What steps has she taken at work? Things cannot be status quo.


----------



## Gloomy Sunday

Stang197 said:


> This is what I did. Can't say that it took the pain away though. You DO feel a sense of justice at first. Then the pain comes back. I kept doing over and over. Then I almost left my family for one of these flings. One of them said I got her pregnant. Turned into a different mess. If you do go down this road be prepared to not only hurt your wife but also hurt the other people you get involved with. You could be upfront to keep the hurt feelings to a minimum but I found women usually don't want to get involved unless the think they have a shot at a relationship.


If I do go down this road I will be upfront with the other person.



straightshooter said:


> Gloomy,
> 
> You can end all the speculation and guessing and digging with one simple word.
> POLYGRAPH
> 
> You tell her or don't te;l;l her that she is taking a polygraph test because you have to know the truth. I'd do it unannounced in about four weeks. Your four simple questions
> (1) since marriage had you had any sexual activity with any other men other that Om and Gloomy
> (2) are you in contact with Om on any social media or apps that Gloomy does not have access to
> (3) was the meet up in his room preplanned
> (4) have you been alone with OM since D Day.
> Those are yes no questions that will let you know the truth, without which you will get blindsided. She should be slobbering at the bit to take the test.





Chuck71 said:


> (5) was the conference the only time you had sex with om.


I proposed it to her and she said that if it would put my mind at ease that she has no problems taking it. I probably wont because I have investigated and the answers to all of those questions are no. BTW it was a special interest/hobby type convention, not a conference or anything business related.



Taxman said:


> We are all giving you some extreme advice. Many say poly, many say revenge. All that aside gloomy, what do you want? Will she cheat again? What is she doing to make herself safe. What steps has she taken at work? Things cannot be status quo.


Like I said before, possibly reciprocating with a similar act on my behalf seems fair to me. I would like to salvage my marriage and feel that so far that is a good way. I don't believe that she will do it again and is taking measures to make sure it doesn't. She has not been to work since the week it happened. She had 5 weeks off because that is when the contract ended (she also has another job). The new contract begins next week. She told me that she will tell me when she comes in contact with the OM and what was discussed. I'm sure the OM has some idea as to what is going on since he was deleted from her facebook and his number has been blocked by me through the mobile phone carrier's website. Also on D Day after the deed was done she told him that she just ruined her marriage and her life, and that she was going to tell me. She also told him that she was worried because even though I'm a nice guy, telling me something like this could make me violent. 



Taxman said:


> Gloomy, keep us in the loop. What is going on now?


Last night I blew a gasket and it got nasty. Something triggered me and I was also intoxicated. We started arguing and I told her that I was prepared to do all kinds of things to make her pay for what she did, from having my own ONS to taking her to divorce court and other things. She told me that I need to stop focusing on punishing and controlling her, and instead focus on what's best for me. At one point she told me that she was done arguing and tried to walk out of the room. In order to prevent her from doing that I shoved her 3 times and she landed in the bed. I then clenched my fist and put it in front of her face. I let her go and she locked herself in the spare bedroom and started crying. I am shocked by some of my behavior and need to control my temper. I'm usually a pretty calm and civilized person, but this pain and anger has brought out my inner Mr. Hyde and it's a bit scary.


----------



## Chuck71

Gloomy Sunday said:


> If I do go down this road I will be upfront with the other person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I proposed it to her and she said that if it would put my mind at ease that she has no problems taking it. I probably wont because I have investigated and the answers to all of those questions are no. BTW it was a special interest/hobby type convention, not a conference or anything business related.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said before, possibly reciprocating with a similar act on my behalf seems fair to me. I would like to salvage my marriage and feel that so far that is a good way. I don't believe that she will do it again and is taking measures to make sure it doesn't. She has not been to work since the week it happened. She had 5 weeks off because that is when the contract ended (she also has another job). The new contract begins next week. She told me that she will tell me when she comes in contact with the OM and what was discussed. I'm sure the OM has some idea as to what is going on since he was deleted from her facebook and his number has been blocked by me through the mobile phone carrier's website. Also on D Day after the deed was done she told him that she just ruined her marriage and her life, and that she was going to tell me. She also told him that she was worried because even though I'm a nice guy, telling me something like this could make me violent.
> 
> 
> 
> Last night I blew a gasket and it got nasty. Something triggered me and I was also intoxicated. We started arguing and I told her that I was prepared to do all kinds of things to make her pay for what she did, from having my own ONS to taking her to divorce court and other things. She told me that I need to stop focusing on punishing and controlling her, and instead focus on what's best for me. At one point she told me that she was done arguing and tried to walk out of the room. In order to prevent her from doing that I shoved her 3 times and she landed in the bed. I then clenched my fist and put it in front of her face. I let her go and she locked herself in the spare bedroom and started crying. I am shocked by some of my behavior and need to control my temper. I'm usually a pretty calm and civilized person, but this pain and anger has brought out my inner Mr. Hyde and it's a bit scary.


Hence when I mentioned one of you may need to move out for awhile to clear your head.

I can see where this is headed..... and I will bet a fine bottle of Scotch the other posters do as well.

Next time you throw a schit fit she may call the police. Ever watch Star Wars?

Fear leads to anger
Anger leads to hate
Hate leads to the Dark Side


----------



## Taxman

By all means do something to get this out of your system. You are angry. Totally normal, now do what you have to. Have her leave. Fu ck someone. Take pictures and show your wife. Violence will get you arrested. Go do what will make you feel better.


----------



## honcho

For a while quit drinking, your mind is too occupied and your emotions are too raw right now to a liquor into the mix. It's too easy to get in real trouble letting your emotions get the best of you and your lucky she didn't call the cops.


----------



## farsidejunky

No more alcohol. It is clear you cannot handle it in this phase of your life.


----------



## Stang197

farsidejunky said:


> No more alcohol. It is clear you cannot handle it in this phase of your life.



This is the truth. Sad that you have to modify your life because of her actions. But the worst thing would be getting some sort of criminal record because of this. If she is out of control then film it. Do not touch her out of anger.


----------



## drifting on

Gloomy

I can understand your anger, I can understand your drinking, I can understand that you are impaired to a certain level, but you know your actions were wrong. What's worse is when you stopped her from leaving and pushed her three times, you knew it was wrong as you did it. For this you have no excuse, you can't tell anyone here you didn't know what you were doing. I hope you understand you can be charged with kidnapping, assault and battery, and domestic violence. In my state this gets you a three day leave from your home. Violence against your wife or any spouse for that matter, is not condoned by me. In fact I'm trying real hard here to reel myself in after what you did. 

I have had numerous discussions regarding justice in infidelity, and I don't know if there is any. I would recommend you speak to @JohnA regarding justice, he has helped me with it. My opinion on a revenge affair, don't, you will be going against your own core values and beliefs. Would you pour gasoline on a fire to put it out? Probably not, but in essence this is exactly what you would be doing. If you feel this is what you need to do, then divorce, tell your wife to get in line if she wants to date you as you play the field. But don't harm yourself to get revenge or fake justice. 

From here on no more drinking, no more shoving your wife or holding her against her will. You are very lucky you aren't calling someone to bail you out or bailing yourself out of jail. As it is, your wife can now, at any time, get a restraining order against you and have you removed from your home in fear of violence or retaliation. You have severely handicapped yourself in the event of a divorce. Think with your head, issue consequences, rational and reasonable consequences that don't involve physical harm to your wife.

If you haven't already you need to start IC. You need to contact a trusted family member or friend and speak to them, vent your anger out. But your behavior with your wife needs to be toned down, and I would follow the advice that she leave for at least the next five days. Have her return two days before she is to return to work. At this time you need to tell your wife that she hasn't even returned to work and look how well you are dealing with it. How are you going to be when she tells you she spoke to OM? Will you believe what she says? Will you get angry and assault her again? What if a job goes wrong and she ends up having to work days with OM? What then? Have you asked your wife how she would feel if roles reversed? Would she then say that you find someone else to deal with that person? You know she can do it, why won't she? You said that your wife and others would have to meet him to explain what needs to be done. Why can't that someone else meet OM? How are you going to feel knowing they were in contact and alone? 

Gloomy I'm not picking on you, but now you see why Gus said its either/or there is no other way. You haven't even made it to her returning to work, you stopped her from leaving, you shoved her, and this is under the assumption she hasn't communicated with OM. Do you really see yourself making it through this? Because I say the first time she comes home and tells you she spent an hour with OM, you're going to lose your mind. 

I said I made it three months, three months I spent in pure rage over my wife and OM. It didn't matter if they saw each other for ten seconds or the entire day. It put me in pure rage, I viewed my wife as valuing OM more then me. I'll take the homeless situation, better yet, you should have been firm your wife doesn't return and the financial repercussions are for her. You didn't, so now you are going to have to live with it or divorce. 

You have choices gloomy, don't make foolish choices like your wife did. Aplolgize for your physical actions, then tell her to leave. She can stay with a friend, or if you want to really get your point across, tell her to go stay with OM and that she is his now. Hopefully OM rejects her and she begins to understand how bad her choice is. You need to get strong, reconciliation will get much harder then this, and you aren't taking to wise choices. You are letting your anger rule you, your anger is making decisions, and that is going to prove disastrous for you. Get your anger under control, because you may think your angry now, but just wait for rage. It gets much worse.

What is your wife doing to make you feel safe?
What is your wife doing to eliminate OM from contact at work? 
What is your wife doing to prevent this from happening again?


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> This is the truth. Sad that you have to modify your life because of her actions. But the worst thing would be getting some sort of criminal record because of this. If she is out of control then film it. Do not touch her out of anger.




Don't touch her period.


----------



## sokillme

Gloomy Sunday said:


> If I do go down this road I will be upfront with the other person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I proposed it to her and she said that if it would put my mind at ease that she has no problems taking it. I probably wont because I have investigated and the answers to all of those questions are no. BTW it was a special interest/hobby type convention, not a conference or anything business related.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said before, possibly reciprocating with a similar act on my behalf seems fair to me. I would like to salvage my marriage and feel that so far that is a good way. I don't believe that she will do it again and is taking measures to make sure it doesn't. She has not been to work since the week it happened. She had 5 weeks off because that is when the contract ended (she also has another job). The new contract begins next week. She told me that she will tell me when she comes in contact with the OM and what was discussed. I'm sure the OM has some idea as to what is going on since he was deleted from her facebook and his number has been blocked by me through the mobile phone carrier's website. Also on D Day after the deed was done she told him that she just ruined her marriage and her life, and that she was going to tell me. She also told him that she was worried because even though I'm a nice guy, telling me something like this could make me violent.
> 
> 
> 
> Last night I blew a gasket and it got nasty. Something triggered me and I was also intoxicated. We started arguing and I told her that I was prepared to do all kinds of things to make her pay for what she did, from having my own ONS to taking her to divorce court and other things. She told me that I need to stop focusing on punishing and controlling her, and instead focus on what's best for me. At one point she told me that she was done arguing and tried to walk out of the room. In order to prevent her from doing that I shoved her 3 times and she landed in the bed. I then clenched my fist and put it in front of her face. I let her go and she locked herself in the spare bedroom and started crying. I am shocked by some of my behavior and need to control my temper. I'm usually a pretty calm and civilized person, but this pain and anger has brought out my inner Mr. Hyde and it's a bit scary.


Nothing has ever made me more mad then being cheated on. I am a live and let live kind of guy but the anger I felt was like nothing I have ever felt before or since. It scared me. That is no excuse though. I suggest you try to detach quit trying to control the situation. Let time do it's thing and then decide. Maybe you should move out for a little while or ask her to. This is so early for you now is not the time to make decisions about anything.


----------



## ABHale

Gloomy Sunday said:


> If I do go down this road I will be upfront with the other person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I proposed it to her and she said that if it would put my mind at ease that she has no problems taking it. I probably wont because I have investigated and the answers to all of those questions are no. BTW it was a special interest/hobby type convention, not a conference or anything business related.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said before, possibly reciprocating with a similar act on my behalf seems fair to me. I would like to salvage my marriage and feel that so far that is a good way. I don't believe that she will do it again and is taking measures to make sure it doesn't. She has not been to work since the week it happened. She had 5 weeks off because that is when the contract ended (she also has another job). The new contract begins next week. She told me that she will tell me when she comes in contact with the OM and what was discussed. I'm sure the OM has some idea as to what is going on since he was deleted from her facebook and his number has been blocked by me through the mobile phone carrier's website. Also on D Day after the deed was done she told him that she just ruined her marriage and her life, and that she was going to tell me. She also told him that she was worried because even though I'm a nice guy, telling me something like this could make me violent.
> 
> 
> 
> Last night I blew a gasket and it got nasty. Something triggered me and I was also intoxicated. We started arguing and I told her that I was prepared to do all kinds of things to make her pay for what she did, from having my own ONS to taking her to divorce court and other things. She told me that I need to stop focusing on punishing and controlling her, and instead focus on what's best for me. At one point she told me that she was done arguing and tried to walk out of the room. In order to prevent her from doing that I shoved her 3 times and she landed in the bed. I then clenched my fist and put it in front of her face. I let her go and she locked herself in the spare bedroom and started crying. I am shocked by some of my behavior and need to control my temper. I'm usually a pretty calm and civilized person, but this pain and anger has brought out my inner Mr. Hyde and it's a bit scary.



You need time to yourself to get the anger out. Separate for a couple of weeks and see how you feel at the end of it.


----------



## GusPolinski

farsidejunky said:


> No more alcohol. It is clear you cannot handle it in this phase of your life.


Indeed.


----------



## Chuck71

Gloomy........ you have every right to be angry. But the way it is being released is negative.

Controlled rage v. uncontrolled rage.

Hook her up to a poly if that will help set your mind at ease. But be prepared you might hear 

answers you do not want to hear. Drifting on and C1800 have both went this road. Listen to them.

It's not that many of us are warning you just to bash the WS, we have just seen this on the threads

so many times, it is virtually clockwork. Whatever you chose, I will offer support. That's why I

am here. But her still working at the same place is glaring, very glaring.


----------



## Taxman

Gloomy, first no alcohol, second, whatever you do, carry it out in an emotionless state. When my wife carried out her revenge, she did it, as she said, in a cold, emotionless and dispassionate state. She said she was a good actress on her date, feigning interest, etc, but she stuck to an agenda, which was to have sex with someone other than myself, and then tell me about it. 

Take the emotion out of it for now, whatever you do. You do not want to have a situation where you lose it and cause permanent damage to yourself, your wife or your life.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

This is the expected behavior from a rug sweeper. There has to be an outlet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gloomy Sunday

Yesterday was peaceful, we even went out and spent time with friends at a Mexican restaurant. I apologized to her for my hostile actions and the next time something starts to escalate (hopefully it won't), I will step outside and go for a long walk. She said that she knows that all that is happening is her fault, she is willing to deal with the consequences, and wants to put in the work to salvage our marriage. She even said that if I feel that having a ONS will make me feel better and help us move on in recovering, that I should go ahead and do it. She said that it would hurt her, but she can't be a hypocrite, and would not use it against me.


----------



## badmemory

Gloomy Sunday said:


> She even said that if I feel that having a ONS will make me feel better and help us move on in recovering, that I should go ahead and do it. She said that it would hurt her, but she can't be a hypocrite, and would not use it against me.


When I hear that from a CW, to me it's just their attempt to minimize the cheating. As if a "with permission" revenge ONS can make things right again. It's insulting.

Secondly, they would never give that permission if they truly understood the impact of any kind of cheating on a BS and a marriage.


----------



## RWB

Gloomy Sunday said:


> *She even said that if I feel that having a ONS will make me feel better and help us move on in recovering,* that I should go ahead and do it. She said that it would hurt her, but she can't be a hypocrite, and would not use it against me.


Yeah sure, throw a little gas on the fire. NOOOOOOOOOO! She just wants o drag you down to her level. 

My WW suggested the same to me. :scratchhead: Its some weird cheater logic.


----------



## Taxman

badmemory said:


> Secondly, they would never give that permission if they truly understood the impact of any kind of cheating on a BS and a marriage.


Which is exactly why it is revenge. It is intentional hurt on the wayward spouse. Wayward spouses will never understand the hurt and devastation that cheating heaps upon the betrayed spouse. Revenge spells it out in no uncertain terms. Gloomy's wife, at this time is rationalizing with herself, in order to prepare for what she feels is coming her way. Possible defense mechanism, to be sure, however, she does not know. I do.

I knew a good solid week before it happened, and you fall into a world where you say to yourself, no, I don't believe it, etc etc etc. Then she told me what she did, she told me how he touched her, how he did not want to go down on her, so she did not do it to him, how his penis was skinny. How he was rough with her breasts and was finished quickly and wanted to do it again, but she said once was fine. Every last iota short of her counting his thrusts, was recounted to me. I left her that night completely destroyed. That is what awaits Gloomy's wife and as much as she is prepping herself for this, there is absolutely no way she can ever. In short order, she will go through exactly what he is going through, except, she knows that this is going to happen. He did not.


----------



## Stang197

Taxman said:


> badmemory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, they would never give that permission if they truly understood the impact of any kind of cheating on a BS and a marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is exactly why it is revenge. It is intentional hurt on the wayward spouse. Wayward spouses will never understand the hurt and devastation that cheating heaps upon the betrayed spouse. Revenge spells it out in no uncertain terms. Gloomy's wife, at this time is rationalizing with herself, in order to prepare for what she feels is coming her way. Possible defense mechanism, to be sure, however, she does not know. I do.
> 
> I knew a good solid week before it happened, and you fall into a world where you say to yourself, no, I don't believe it, etc etc etc. Then she told me what she did, she told me how he touched her, how he did not want to go down on her, so she did not do it to him, how his penis was skinny. How he was rough with her breasts and was finished quickly and wanted to do it again, but she said once was fine. Every last iota short of her counting his thrusts, was recounted to me. I left her that night completely destroyed. That is what awaits Gloomy's wife and as much as she is prepping herself for this, there is absolutely no way she can ever. In short order, she will go through exactly what he is going through, except, she knows that this is going to happen. He did not.
Click to expand...


My wife watched me with the first girl. She is still pissed about that.


----------



## SunCMars

This is a no-win situation.

She blamed alcohol for her indiscretion. I agree that it helped her "get over the hump". No, get humped.

She wanted to have sex with this younger dude. She threw caution to the wind.

Why? She does not think you will leave her.

Yes, she knew you would be hurt, be devastated that she allowed another man's penis inside her. A younger, fresher one, to boot.

But, in her mind, the risk was worth the consequences. She sat there in that hotel room MANY HOURS until the others left. She wanted the PIV outcome.

She knew the others were aware of her remaining in his room. She knew that they would have their suspicions about her action. And she knew that your trusted friend and her trip roommate would know what happened. Your friend would be obligated to tell [his wife for sure] and likely you. 

She absolutely wanted this to happen. This was an premeditated sexual conquest of the younger male co-worker. She wanted this experience...... AT ALL COSTS. She is getting older and knew that this was the perfect opportunity. She did not want to pass on this romp. She put his penis and his hip action, his lips and kisses, ahead of your long relationship and marriage.

I cannot say this strongly enough: SHE WANTED THIS from the get-go. The alcohol excuse is BS. 

A loving human being would not do this. Do this for WHAT? A one night stand? A little side action? No, her feelings for you are minimal. Believe me. She has no strong feelings for you. She cannot. She went to lengths to see this through. To see this, his penis in her.

I would dump her. I would not have a revenge affair. Hell no. She is not worth the air that she sucks in and blows up your butt.

DUMP HER.


----------



## Chuck71

IF all she had was a ONS, why is she using "cheater script" notions and replies? Odd.....

I still say she knew exactly what she was doing the entire time. Any sane woman knows she HAS to

be aware of her surroundings at ALL times. Drinking or not.


----------



## drifting on

Gloomy

I'm going to ask you a few questions, before responding you must think deeply as to what it is you are truly trying to accomplish. I get the sense you feel there is no justice to what has happened with infidelity. I truly struggled with this for two years, but I have come to a point where I have accepted the outcome. It will take time to get to this point, and during that time I made sure of two things. One, that I do not compromise my values and beliefs, this will only serve to damage me further then I was already damaged. I won't sacrifice myself when I don't believe justice will be attained. Two, revenge on my wife cannot be mistaken for consequences. This is very easy to blur together, and a very fine line. I issued consequences to my wife, I did not actively seek out to get revenge.

So my questions are these;
What will a revenge affair do to you?
Why haven't you cheated on your wife?
What are you going to do if your revenge affair doesn't bring you the justice you thought it would?
How much of what you are saying is justice, or really just a way to hurt your wife as she did you?
What is justice in your mind, what should the punishment be that will give you the feeling you have justice? 

In my case I chose consequences to give my wife, I saved justice for the OM. I created pressure so he had to quit, he got a new job and I contacted that company, two weeks later OM is again unemployed. What I did is maybe right or maybe wrong, depends on the eyes of the beholder. I have been told I am putting far too much time and effort towards OM, nope. I have a generic letter, I change the company name, print, fold, put in envelope, put stamp on it, and drop in mailbox. Taking my time it's less then five minutes, it costs less then fifty cents to mail, best fifty cents I spent that entire day in my opinion.


----------



## TX-SC

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Yesterday was peaceful, we even went out and spent time with friends at a Mexican restaurant. I apologized to her for my hostile actions and the next time something starts to escalate (hopefully it won't), I will step outside and go for a long walk. She said that she knows that all that is happening is her fault, she is willing to deal with the consequences, and wants to put in the work to salvage our marriage. She even said that if I feel that having a ONS will make me feel better and help us move on in recovering, that I should go ahead and do it. She said that it would hurt her, but she can't be a hypocrite, and would not use it against me.


Sounds like time to go find a willing partner. It's not cheating if she gives you permission. Just consider it a one-sided, temporarily open relationship. 

However, if you truly wish to R, it will make things infinately more difficult. Also, you will lose any moral high ground you have now. 

It's a tough call.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Gloomy Sunday said:


> . She even said that if I feel that having a ONS will make me feel better and help us move on in recovering, that I should go ahead and do it. She said that it would hurt her, but she can't be a hypocrite, and would not use it against me.


For the record I dont judge people who have RAs and have zero sympathy for cheaters who get cheated on. But with all due respect a "hall pass" does not make it even. Do you know what a "hall pass" really is"? Your cheating wife trying to continue to exert control over you and the outcome. Its a trap to equalize things to HER advantage and not yours. Did she ask you before she cheated? Did she give you any input as to the timing of her affair? No she did not. An affair is both a sucker punch and self-esteem killer - a "hall pass" wont be a sucker punch since she is expecting it and if anything it sounds like it will actually make her feel better about herself since it will take her guilt away. I understand the desire and need for justice but dont do something that wont give you what you are seeking. There is a reason she is suggesting it and its not for your good but hers - do not forget that. Cheaters put themselves first.


----------



## Stang197

Truthseeker1 said:


> Gloomy Sunday said:
> 
> 
> 
> . She even said that if I feel that having a ONS will make me feel better and help us move on in recovering, that I should go ahead and do it. She said that it would hurt her, but she can't be a hypocrite, and would not use it against me.
> 
> 
> 
> For the record I dont judge people who have RAs and have zero sympathy for cheaters who get cheated on. But with all due respect a "hall pass" does not make it even. Do you know what a "hall pass" really is"? Your cheating wife trying to continue to exert control over you and the outcome. Its a trap to equalize things to HER advantage and not yours. Did she ask you before she cheated? Did she give you any input as to the timing of her affair? No she did not. An affair is both a sucker punch and self-esteem killer - a "hall pass" wont be a sucker punch since she is expecting it and if anything it sounds like it will actually make her feel better about herself since it will take her guilt away. I understand the desire and need for justice but dont do something that wont give you what you are seeking. There is a reason she is suggesting it and its not for your good but hers - do not forget that. Cheaters put themselves first.
Click to expand...

This is the truth. You cannot get even. RAs will not make you feel better. It will only hurt the other person if they truly care. Could start another level of pain if you fall for this new person. Could hurt the new person.


----------



## Dyokemm

Truthseeker1 said:


> For the record I dont judge people who have RAs and have zero sympathy for cheaters who get cheated on. But with all due respect a "hall pass" does not make it even. Do you know what a "hall pass" really is"? Your cheating wife trying to continue to exert control over you and the outcome. Its a trap to equalize things to HER advantage and not yours. Did she ask you before she cheated? Did she give you any input as to the timing of her affair? No she did not. An affair is both a sucker punch and self-esteem killer - a "hall pass" wont be a sucker punch since she is expecting it and if anything it sounds like it will actually make her feel better about herself since it will take her guilt away. I understand the desire and need for justice but dont do something that wont give you what you are seeking. There is a reason she is suggesting it and its not for your good but hers - do not forget that. Cheaters put themselves first.


IMO.....how much the RA 'hurts' the WS can vary immensely from person to person.

Some, like Taxman, seem to be incredibly hurt by the payback.

But others do seem to look on it as almost a relief....a 'leveling' of the playing field so to speak.

I think the difference is found in the remorse of a WS.....

If the WS is already blameshifting the A to their BS, and trying to play the victim role as much as possible, even though they are the traitorous, backstabbing offender.......well then it seems to me this WS would be relieved to be back on equal footing.....and feel less hypocritical about trying to play the victim to their BS.

But if a WS is truly repentant and torn up buy the damage they have inflicted on their M and the pain of their BS.....then watching their BS go off for some side-action fun themselves will be very hurtful....a true lesson in 'payback is a b*tch'.

Same can be said about the BS in a way too.....

Some BS will actually do MORE damage to themselves if they engage in an RA......others cannot get past the injustice of the A UNLESS they return the favor.

IMO....there is no 'one size fits all' answer to the benefits or drawbacks of an RA.....each situation depends on the individuals involved.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Stang197 said:


> This is the truth. You cannot get even. RAs will not make you feel better. It will only hurt the other person if they truly care. Could start another level of pain if you fall for this new person. Could hurt the new person.


I was not referring to all RAs - some may work - but a "hall pass" is not an RA its the WS exerting control over the BS...two very different things


----------



## Taxman

Make no mistake, she did not offer the hall pass, he told her that he was going to do it, and when he does, she will be devastated. Equality is achieved. Yes, my wife's RA cut me to the core. I felt like a total hypocrite, but she needed that. I could have wrecked her world because of it, but I wanted reconciliation and the price was her RA. 

Gloomy's wife wants to put this behind them. She is going to have to pay this price in so doing.


----------



## ABHale

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Yesterday was peaceful, we even went out and spent time with friends at a Mexican restaurant. I apologized to her for my hostile actions and the next time something starts to escalate (hopefully it won't), I will step outside and go for a long walk. She said that she knows that all that is happening is her fault, she is willing to deal with the consequences, and wants to put in the work to salvage our marriage. She even said that if I feel that having a ONS will make me feel better and help us move on in recovering, that I should go ahead and do it. She said that it would hurt her, but she can't be a hypocrite, and would not use it against me.


This last part bothers me. How is she a hypocrite if it was a drunken mistake?

I go back to this was planned from the start. Let her say what she will. 

They were friends at work. They talked and got along. She would have never gone to the room if they were just co workers. 

Knowing your wife, would she ever go to some guys room to drink that she barely knew?

Also, how did she prove there were others in the room with her from the start. 

These doesn't make any sense. What she is saying is now that I scratched my itch you can if you want so we can move on.

She is not telling the truth about this. And for her to offer the ONS to you screams this out louder then ever. So now she is opening up the relationship. 

Have the two of you ever discussed an open relationship?


----------



## Truthseeker1

Taxman said:


> Make no mistake, she did not offer the hall pass, he told her that he was going to do it, and when he does, she will be devastated. Equality is achieved. Yes, my wife's RA cut me to the core. I felt like a total hypocrite, but she needed that. I could have wrecked her world because of it, but I wanted reconciliation and the price was her RA.
> 
> Gloomy's wife wants to put this behind them. She is going to have to pay this price in so doing.


How could you have wrecked her world? wouldnt she have divorced you anyway without the RA? It may have cut you to the core but imagine that you had been blindsided by it? Imagine if you thought your marriage was fine and bam she has an A? That would have cut you much deeper IMO than an affair you were prepared for. IMO A "hall pass" that a WS agrees to is just their way of exerting control. If the BS is going to do it - then do it dont ask permission or announce it their WSs didnt.


----------



## Taxman

I could have wrecked her world because of other factors. Had I used her actions against her, I could have alienated her from a significant number of her family members and she picked a guy at work, fairly simple, I knew her boss and his wife. One phone call from me, and she would have not only lost her job, I could have gotten her blacklisted in her field. I pointed this out to her later in our reconciliation, and the implications that she failed to consider hit her like a ton of bricks. Had her father found out, he would have disowned her. Pure and simple, I chose to keep this between both of us as I had no want to destroy her. 

As to another point, the OP has merely told his WW that he may step out. She has no say, and she has NOT offered the hall pass. Therefore, she is not offering permission. He is going to do what will make him feel better about the entire situation, much as my wife did. Say what you want about a revenge affair, to some, it is the only way.


----------



## Mario Kempes

Taxman said:


> I could have wrecked her world because of other factors. Had I used her actions against her, I could have alienated her from a significant number of her family members and *she picked a guy at work,* fairly simple, I knew her boss and his wife. One phone call from me, and she would have not only lost her job, I could have gotten her blacklisted in her field. I pointed this out to her later in our reconciliation, and the implications that she failed to consider hit her like a ton of bricks. Had her father found out, he would have disowned her. Pure and simple, I chose to keep this between both of us as I had no want to destroy her.
> 
> As to another point, the OP has merely told his WW that he may step out. She has no say, and she has NOT offered the hall pass. Therefore, she is not offering permission. He is going to do what will make him feel better about the entire situation, much as my wife did. Say what you want about a revenge affair, to some, it is the only way.


Taxman, does your wife still work with the guy she had the RA with?


----------



## Gloomy Sunday

Thank you all again for your responses.




drifting on said:


> Gloomy
> 
> I'm going to ask you a few questions, before responding you must think deeply as to what it is you are truly trying to accomplish. I get the sense you feel there is no justice to what has happened with infidelity. I truly struggled with this for two years, but I have come to a point where I have accepted the outcome. It will take time to get to this point, and during that time I made sure of two things. One, that I do not compromise my values and beliefs, this will only serve to damage me further then I was already damaged. I won't sacrifice myself when I don't believe justice will be attained. Two, revenge on my wife cannot be mistaken for consequences. This is very easy to blur together, and a very fine line. I issued consequences to my wife, I did not actively seek out to get revenge.


If I am walking down the street and someone punches me in the face, I am not going to forgive them. I am instead going to go against my values of being a peaceful non-religious person and punching that person right back in the face. 



drifting on said:


> So my questions are these;
> What will a revenge affair do to you?
> Why haven't you cheated on your wife?
> What are you going to do if your revenge affair doesn't bring you the justice you thought it would?
> How much of what you are saying is justice, or really just a way to hurt your wife as she did you?
> What is justice in your mind, what should the punishment be that will give you the feeling you have justice?


An RA will boost my self-esteem and if it doesn't work, so be it. Justice is equality and fairness or as Plato put it : A just man is a man in just the right place, doing his best and *giving the precise equivalent of what he has received.*




drifting on said:


> In my case I chose consequences to give my wife, I saved justice for the OM. I created pressure so he had to quit, he got a new job and I contacted that company, two weeks later OM is again unemployed. What I did is maybe right or maybe wrong, depends on the eyes of the beholder. I have been told I am putting far too much time and effort towards OM, nope. I have a generic letter, I change the company name, print, fold, put in envelope, put stamp on it, and drop in mailbox. Taking my time it's less then five minutes, it costs less then fifty cents to mail, best fifty cents I spent that entire day in my opinion.


Right now I'm not really interested in the OM, doesn't mean I'm still not pissed at him, but he is not married to me and did not break any vows. He was just being a horny 22 year old who still lives with his mommy and daddy trying to get a piece of tail.



Dyokemm said:


> IMO.....how much the RA 'hurts' the WS can vary immensely from person to person.
> 
> Some, like Taxman, seem to be incredibly hurt by the payback.
> 
> But others do seem to look on it as almost a relief....a 'leveling' of the playing field so to speak.
> 
> I think the difference is found in the remorse of a WS.....
> 
> If the WS is already blameshifting the A to their BS, and trying to play the victim role as much as possible, even though they are the traitorous, backstabbing offender.......well then it seems to me this WS would be relieved to be back on equal footing.....and feel less hypocritical about trying to play the victim to their BS.
> 
> But if a WS is truly repentant and torn up buy the damage they have inflicted on their M and the pain of their BS.....then watching their BS go off for some side-action fun themselves will be very hurtful....a true lesson in 'payback is a b*tch'.
> 
> Same can be said about the BS in a way too.....
> 
> Some BS will actually do MORE damage to themselves if they engage in an RA......others cannot get past the injustice of the A UNLESS they return the favor.
> 
> IMO....there is no 'one size fits all' answer to the benefits or drawbacks of an RA.....each situation depends on the individuals involved.


Thank you



Taxman said:


> Make no mistake, she did not offer the hall pass, he told her that he was going to do it, and when he does, she will be devastated. Equality is achieved. Yes, my wife's RA cut me to the core. I felt like a total hypocrite, but she needed that. I could have wrecked her world because of it, but I wanted reconciliation and the price was her RA.
> 
> Gloomy's wife wants to put this behind them. She is going to have to pay this price in so doing.


Correct



ABHale said:


> This last part bothers me. How is she a hypocrite if it was a drunken mistake?
> 
> I go back to this was planned from the start. Let her say what she will.
> 
> They were friends at work. They talked and got along. She would have never gone to the room if they were just co workers.
> 
> Knowing your wife, would she ever go to some guys room to drink that she barely knew?
> 
> Also, how did she prove there were others in the room with her from the start.
> 
> These doesn't make any sense. What she is saying is now that I scratched my itch you can if you want so we can move on.
> 
> She is not telling the truth about this. And for her to offer the ONS to you screams this out louder then ever. So now she is opening up the relationship.
> 
> Have the two of you ever discussed an open relationship?


Because mistake or not she would be a hypocrite to tell me that sleeping with another woman is wrong. 
They have worked at the same location for almost a year. They interact for abut 10 minutes a week. They work in seperate departments, my wife is a professional and the OM has more of a blue collar type position. The got along because of their similar interest in a hobby that my wife has. This was not planned, it is an accidental affair aka ONS. My wife and I both read an article that basically describes it exactly at : 

infidelityrecoveryinstitute(dot)com/affair-types/affair-type-1-the-one-night-stand/.

And to repeat myself, she did not offer a RA, I told her that I possibly planned on doing it and she said to go ahead if I feel it will make things better.
We are not interested in an open relationship.


----------



## becareful2

Polygraph her. Pat special attention to her reaction when you bring it up. Follow through anyway so as to trust but verify.


----------



## Mario Kempes

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Right now I'm not really interested in the OM, doesn't mean I'm still not pissed at him, but he is not married to me and did not break any vows.* He was just being a horny 22 year old* who still lives with his mommy and daddy trying to get a piece of tail.


You guys are in your 40's and the OM was only 22.... That's really gotta hurt.

I feel for you. Gloomy.


----------



## Gloomy Sunday

Mario Kempes said:


> You guys are in your 40's and the OM was only 22.... That's really gotta hurt.
> 
> I feel for you. Gloomy.


Thank you, but whether he was 22 or 42 it still hurts just as much.


----------



## sokillme

If you have a RA what if you start to really like the women then what? If it comes to that I would personally divorce her and start over, let her compete will all the other women out there.


----------



## ABHale

I know what you said out of anger about you having a ONS. Your wife saying you could if needed is what I questioned. She has all the right to ask you not to because of how wrong it would be. Just because she screwed up doesn't make it right. 

The thing is. This would not have happened if he wasn't attractive to her. She was faithful all of these years then this man that she has only known for 9 months is able to bed her. This started way before it happened. Like I said and you confirmed, they had similar interests and the OM used it to his advantage and your wife's accent. 

This was not a ONS. This was friends going further then just friends.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Gloomy, you are broken if a Revenge Affair, Hall Pass or whatever excuse you use is going to help your self esteem. Also, since hasn't been addressed, I am going to do it after I laugh sardonically for a few seconds. 

I'm going to find you the thread, but it still cracks me up to this day. A cheater asked if she was a hypocrite because she was going to divorce her husband when he had an affair. I was laughing because people became angry at me because I said "Yeah, it does make you a hypocrite." The rationalizations were beautiful full of "she learned," "he forgave her," "it is an entire different act" and on and on and on. Oh, my personal favorite was "but he knew how bad it hurt him why would he do it." Funny thing was, I agreed with every rationalization made, but it doesn't magically erase her hypocrisy. He forgave her, but when the shoe was on the other foot it was time to go.

Basically, for every thread or post about an RA working there are at least a hundred stories of cheaters coming here saying "I hate my SO, wife, husband because they cheated on me." As the thread continues, we find out they cheated first, but will not accept any responsibility and use the earlier rationalizations. It's up to you and your wife may be sincere, but I've read too many stories of "reformed" cheaters losing their **** with an RA. Yes, even the few how gave up the so called "Hall Pass."

Go ahead and take the chance of an RA, then watch how fast she turns on you. People agree to many things when they are in trouble, it is funny how fast things change when they get the upper hand again.


----------



## Truthseeker1

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Gloomy, you are broken if a Revenge Affair, Hall Pass or whatever excuse you use is going to help your self esteem. Also, since hasn't been addressed, I am going to do it after I laugh sardonically for a few seconds.
> 
> I'm going to find you the thread, but it still cracks me up to this day. A cheater asked if she was a hypocrite because she was going to divorce her husband when he had an affair. I was laughing because people became angry at me because I said "Yeah, it does make you a hypocrite." The rationalizations were beautiful full of "she learned," "he forgave her," "it is an entire different act" and on and on and on. Oh, my personal favorite was "but he knew how bad it hurt him why would he do it." Funny thing was, I agreed with every rationalization made, but it doesn't magically erase her hypocrisy. He forgave her, but when the shoe was on the other foot it was time to go.
> 
> Basically, for every thread or post about an RA working there are at least a hundred stories of cheaters coming here saying "I hate my SO, wife, husband because they cheated on me." As the thread continues, we find out they cheated first, but will not accept any responsibility and use the earlier rationalizations. It's up to you and your wife may be sincere, but I've read too many stories of "reformed" cheaters losing their **** with an RA. Yes, even the few how gave up the so called "Hall Pass."
> 
> Go ahead and take the chance of an RA, then watch how fast she turns on you. People agree to many things when they are in trouble, it is funny how fast things change when they get the upper hand again.


For the record any WS who gets forgiveness or asks for it but will not extend it when the shoe is on the other foot is a hypocritical POS. Plain and simple. Their hypocrisy is just another sign of what selfish narcissistic people cheaters are.


----------



## Stang197

sokillme said:


> If you have a RA what if you start to really like the women then what? If it comes to that I would personally divorce her and start over, let her compete will all the other women out there.


 That is what happens. Doesn't matter how you cut it. This is how people bond. If you can't forgive then divorce. 
My first time was an escort. I did that because I knew I would fall easily for a chick. No chance of that with an escort. That didn't help my damaged ego so I started dating. Thought I would do it till I felt better. I almost left my family for one the girls. 
My daughter was deeply crushed over this. Not to mention my wife. Would be better to just divorce and be honest. Be able to hold your head up high to your family. Nothing wrong with divorce in this situation.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Gloomy Sunday said:


> An RA will boost my self-esteem and if it doesn't work, so be it. Justice is equality and fairness or as Plato put it : A just man is a man in just the right place, doing his best and *giving the precise equivalent of what he has received.*


 But you're not giving the precise equivalent of what you received. She did this because she wanted to and you were never a part of the equation. You would be doing it BECAUSE of her infidelity. It's not even close to being equal. If you just want some strange ,then by all means this is your chance, but you will not feel like you've made things square when you're done, because you haven't. You can't ,no matter what you do.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Just tell her that you're going out to find somebody to sleep with one evening. Leave for several hours. Video/audio record your time out or have witnesses as to your actions during this time. Don't really sleep with anybody. Go home and make her believe that you did. Her reactions will tell you everything you need to know.
How upset is she? If it doesn't really bother her that much, that's a huge indicator to get out of the relationship.
Is she devastated? Good sign as to her feelings for you.
If things really start to go south because of her belief that you slept with somebody then you have the option of telling her that you really didn't sleep with anybody, using the proof at hand.
This is just one way to do this. There are several ways to get the same result without actually having to lose the moral ground. She just has to believe that you slept with somebody else. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## sokillme

Stang197 said:


> That is what happens. Doesn't matter how you cut it. This is how people bond. If you can't forgive then divorce.
> My first time was an escort. I did that because I knew I would fall easily for a chick. No chance of that with an escort. That didn't help my damaged ego so I started dating. Thought I would do it till I felt better. I almost left my family for one the girls.
> My daughter was deeply crushed over this. Not to mention my wife. Would be better to just divorce and be honest. Be able to hold your head up high to your family. Nothing wrong with divorce in this situation.


Did your wife cheat first? Was it revenge like OP is talking about? Are you still together?


----------



## Stang197

sokillme said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what happens. Doesn't matter how you cut it. This is how people bond. If you can't forgive then divorce.
> My first time was an escort. I did that because I knew I would fall easily for a chick. No chance of that with an escort. That didn't help my damaged ego so I started dating. Thought I would do it till I felt better. I almost left my family for one the girls.
> My daughter was deeply crushed over this. Not to mention my wife. Would be better to just divorce and be honest. Be able to hold your head up high to your family. Nothing wrong with divorce in this situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Did your wife cheat first? Was it revenge like OP is talking about? Are you still together?
Click to expand...

Yup. She cheated first. I had her watch me have sex with an escort. Then I had numerous other affairs. One girl got in contact with her and claimed she was pregnant. One of the other girls almost convinced me to leave for her. This was 3 years ago. I know it was over the top on my end. All of it only messed with my head . Her affair deeply affected me more than anything I ever experienced. I threatened suicide and was locked up in a mental health facility for over 2 days. My kids saw me hauled off by the cops. My kids found out that I almost left for another woman. Definitely not good for them. I regret this. Deeply. 
Wasn't good enough though. I had to keep up the revenge on her . Even though she said she would help me raise this other child from another woman. Even though she cried constantly for years and begged me to come back to the marriage. Even though she booked counseling sessions for us. Even though she bent over backwards to make me feel safe again. No, I got addicted to working out and trying new " game " techniques on women. Right in front of her. All the time. I just recently realised that I was in an emotional affair with a girl at work. 
We are still together. I have been trying harder. 
That's why I say , at least for me, this isn't a clear cut path to reconciliation. There will be a lot of emotion that is not anticipated. If she still cares , it could hurt her. Wasn't good enough to take away the pain though . Not sure anything will. Could cause a lot of different pain. And on people who don't deserve it.


----------



## drifting on

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Thank you all again for your responses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I am walking down the street and someone punches me in the face, I am not going to forgive them. I am instead going to go against my values of being a peaceful non-religious person and punching that person right back in the face.
> 
> 
> 
> An RA will boost my self-esteem and if it doesn't work, so be it. Justice is equality and fairness or as Plato put it : A just man is a man in just the right place, doing his best and *giving the precise equivalent of what he has received.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right now I'm not really interested in the OM, doesn't mean I'm still not pissed at him, but he is not married to me and did not break any vows. He was just being a horny 22 year old who still lives with his mommy and daddy trying to get a piece of tail.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> Correct
> 
> 
> 
> Because mistake or not she would be a hypocrite to tell me that sleeping with another woman is wrong.
> They have worked at the same location for almost a year. They interact for abut 10 minutes a week. They work in seperate departments, my wife is a professional and the OM has more of a blue collar type position. The got along because of their similar interest in a hobby that my wife has. This was not planned, it is an accidental affair aka ONS. My wife and I both read an article that basically describes it exactly at :
> 
> infidelityrecoveryinstitute(dot)com/affair-types/affair-type-1-the-one-night-stand/.
> 
> And to repeat myself, she did not offer a RA, I told her that I possibly planned on doing it and she said to go ahead if I feel it will make things better.
> We are not interested in an open relationship.




Gloomy

Comparing infidelity to punching someone who punched you walking down the street, is laughable. In infidelties case a man reacts differently. Any idiot will respond to being punched in the face while walking down the street. Most with a punch back, and whomever punched first isn't probably worried about forgiveness. Unlike your wife who is most concerned about receiving forgiveness. Don't compare or confuse the two, react like a man to infidelity and you will be much better off. However you seem concerned with revenge, to hurt your wife as much as she hurt you. This is very telling of your character, or I'm completely wrong, but wanting to hurt her shows your love for her is shallow. She hurt you so now you have to hurt her? What if you decide she wasn't as hurt as you with your ONS? Going to do it again? Until you do decide she has hurt enough? What kind of love is that for your spouse?

You see gloomy, you quoted Plato and even highlighted a part. It's not something you can achieve, she knows you are going to have a ONS, Plato is, GIVING THE EXACT EQUIVALENT. How do you get this, how do you get the exact equivalent of she knows? So Plato says to throw your beliefs and morals away so you can be the same as your wife? What do you think that will do to your self esteem? 

Self esteem isn't measured by your wife cheating or you having you own ONS. It's measured by you, only you, and the poster who said you are broken is right. Your self esteem took a hit with your wife cheating, but if you have sex with your wife tonight and she says you are the best ever, your self esteem isn't returning. You are broken, you need help, and you need to get your head out of your ass to react like a man would. You may see that as harsh or even provoking, it's not meant to be, but a man responds using intelligence, beliefs, and making smart choices. You haven't shown that yet, especially by getting physical with your wife. I seriously hope you have more intelligence and can make far better decisions then you have been showing. So many posters have given you good advice, you don't seem to take any, and that will fall squarely on you. Respond like a man, respond like a husband who isn't hell bent on revenge, respond firmly without childish anger and physical actions. 

OM may not have vows with you, did he know your wife was married? Then he had every intention of blowing up your marriage without disregard for you. As others have said, your wife knows OM far better then you let on, does your wife jump into bed with everyone she only has ten minutes of contact with per week? Does she have sex with everyone who shares interest in her hobby? Most likely not, so one must ask why she risked everything to be with OM. Oh, I know, you are going to stick with your story, but you better ask her just how well she knows OM, you will probably be very surprised how much they talk. Or, your wife just has poor boundaries and jumps into bed with everyone who likes her hobby. That last statement was to provoke you to talk to your wife about how well she knows OM.


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## sokillme

Stang197 said:


> Yup. She cheated first. I had her watch me have sex with an escort. Then I had numerous other affairs. One girl got in contact with her and claimed she was pregnant. One of the other girls almost convinced me to leave for her. This was 3 years ago. I know it was over the top on my end. All of it only messed with my head . Her affair deeply affected me more than anything I ever experienced. I threatened suicide and was locked up in a mental health facility for over 2 days. My kids saw me hauled off by the cops. My kids found out that I almost left for another woman. Definitely not good for them. I regret this. Deeply.
> Wasn't good enough though. I had to keep up the revenge on her . Even though she said she would help me raise this other child from another woman. Even though she cried constantly for years and begged me to come back to the marriage. Even though she booked counseling sessions for us. Even though she bent over backwards to make me feel safe again. No, I got addicted to working out and trying new " game " techniques on women. Right in front of her. All the time. I just recently realised that I was in an emotional affair with a girl at work.
> We are still together. I have been trying harder.
> That's why I say , at least for me, this isn't a clear cut path to reconciliation. There will be a lot of emotion that is not anticipated. If she still cares , it could hurt her. Wasn't good enough to take away the pain though . Not sure anything will. Could cause a lot of different pain. And on people who don't deserve it.


So now that you tried that, what should you have done? Do you think you would have gone down this route if your wife had stayed faithful?


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## JohnA

Hi @drifting on saw your your comment. Apologies for not responding sooner. My IPad and TAM do not get along. Not on site as often for two reasons: this sites often crashes my browser non-stop so I reboot stay away a few days and then things work fine. Second my notifications area always takes me to subscriptions. So unless I go to my profie page and review notifications and likes I am clueless. Thank god I have my PM linked to my personal email account as that is the only way to access PMs 

Gloomy, MAKE YOURSELF PROUD 

Read drifting on and @EleGirl profile page, threads and links. Stop drinking and read their thoughts and stories like a raging alcholic let loose in a warehouse of 150 year bottles of scotch. 

In response to drifting's post my thoughts are more in the nature of the concept of man's justice and Divine Justice and healing. The hard truth is there is no justice in life. How do you give justice to a rape victim? Life prison? How does that heal the rape victim? How? There is no place for vengeance or punishment in the concept of Divne Justice. Perhaps because it is rooted in empathy. Divine Justice means the rape never occured AND the both the rapist and the victim gain empathy for each other. The rapist for the horror they inflected and victim for the demons that drove the rapist. Insane so there is no true justice. Justice is what you make it yourself and what it makes of you. Read Elie Weis(sp?) "other side of midnight. He came out sane at 14, 15 years old from the camps after 7 or so years at the end of WWII to start.

As to an RA; several years ago a man came on and stated in responce to his wife ONS he got to hookers and ..... And made his wife watch, and made her move into her mothers. My comnent to him is the same to "way to go your actions spoke loud and clear .... To your daughter". Yea I know you don't have a daughter. I had no children, I ate a **** sandwich you would not believe. Get a PM and I will send you the details or ask me to post them. I am proud of the Justice I made for myself. I think the Justice Driftimg is making himself is a super nova. Read his threads. His wife and he are still rebuilding their marriage more then a few years out. Want to know how long or why he had a gun in his mouth read his threads! 

The hell your in now, would you ever put someone you did not know or a person you think you love there? If I changed my user name long time readers would now it is me. I never use the term affair or cheat. You wife comminted ADULTERY. A butral, cold horror. Rapist, child molester, concentration camp voluntary worker type word. 

Accept right now there is a hell of a lot more with this guy then you know. At least you know your 4 year daughter isn't your's on her


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## JohnA

Wow just saw the post author I mentioned posted here too.

@Srang197 I think you are making yourself proud too.


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## scaredlion

I know you are hurting and want some pay-back but a RA is not going to do it for you, even though you think it will. The illustration you gave, about being punched in the face, doesn't match up with a RA. If that was to happen to me, yes I would do severe damage to the guy who punched me in the face. That would be self defense. But a RA is revenge and as revenge will not only hurt your wife, even though she feels she deserves it, but in the long run it would damage your own honor and integrity. A very wise man once said that before you start on the path of revenge you should dig two graves. I am not a very peaceful person in the face of adversity. I had two careers in 45 years and both were filled with violence and danger, so hurting someone who hurt me isn't something new. But to purposely hurt someone I love, for revenge, is something I have never done. One of the things I learned in life is that whatever you do you have to live with. I know because I live with a lot. You will always have to live with the memory of your wife's ONS. If you do the same then you are always going to have to live with that memory also. Right now the ideal of a ONS sounds right but 10 years from now that thought will change. If you just can't live with what your wife did without doing the same thing yourself, then tell her the marriage is over and go out and screw everything that walks, crawls, or hasn't been dead too long. (that's and old Army saying) I knew a man whose wife cheated on him, was sorry and wanted to save her marriage. He told her that she owed him a debt to have sex with another woman as many times as she had sex with her AP. He told her that as long as their marriage had only two people in it that he wouldn't collect on the debt. But if the marriage ever again had three people then he was going to expand it to four because he was going to collect everything he was owed. The last I heard they were still happily together and he had never had to collect on her debt. If you have a ONS it's going to hurt your wife as much as hers hurt you and she will never forget either. If you really love your wife then don't damage yourself and her for some act of revenge. I do wish you well.


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## Dyokemm

OP,

When it comes to the issues of payback or revenge, and what constitutes justice in your situation.....those are very personal choices that only YOU can make for yourself.

All the discussion on here about the pros and cons of RA's or showing empathy or the potential for damaging yourself in the act.....those are the PERSONAL feelings of those posters and their insight on the issue....what is right for THEM.

And it is great and right for them to share their views to prod you to think deeply on this......because you do need to reflect and decide what they mean for YOU.

Some people can accept and believe in a concept of Divine Justice as JohnA talked about.....it means a lot to them and comforts them and helps them to accept the situation they find themselves in.......

To others, accepting a sh*t sandwich now on some spiritualistic belief in some post-life rebalancing at the hands of the Creator is a load of crap.

As I mentioned in an earlier post.....some people DO damage themselves and their self-esteem further if they seek retribution for the wrongs done them......

Other people DAMAGE their self-esteem if they do not seek to balance accounts with those who have wronged them....

People are different....

What you really need to do BEFORE you make any decision is really decide what these concepts mean for yourself.....and then act accordingly, and to heck with anyone who disagrees with you on the path you know is right for you.


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## eric1

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Yesterday was peaceful, we even went out and spent time with friends at a Mexican restaurant. I apologized to her for my hostile actions and the next time something starts to escalate (hopefully it won't), I will step outside and go for a long walk. She said that she knows that all that is happening is her fault, she is willing to deal with the consequences, and wants to put in the work to salvage our marriage. She even said that if I feel that having a ONS will make me feel better and help us move on in recovering, that I should go ahead and do it. She said that it would hurt her, but she can't be a hypocrite, and would not use it against me.




It's apples and oranges. She goes out and has sex with the chance of a relationship. She thinks differently afterwards. Going out for the sake to have sex with someone just once absolutely isn't the same.


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## Chuck71

Let's review......... She cheats w/o your consent / permission. Now she gives her consent / permission to

cheat since she already did. Doesn't quite seem fair to me. Like a poster stated, state you did

cheat and watch her reaction. I doubt she will go ballistic, this was HER idea. Will she say -Now you 

got to cheat, drop it- or -Cool now we're even, now proceed with our lives-

Doesn't appear to balance out the pain does it? A Hangover Crew friend several years back.... dated a

female, really liked her. She cheated. He countered with two flings where she knew every

detail or four where he would not say a word until they were completed and nothing would 

be shared about them. BTW.... this was brought up when they got serious, maybe 18 months prior.

She chose four and not knowing. He felt redemption but she couldn't get past it.

They separated. I still recommend divorce. Not saying 180 / NC her. A divorce can be your

retaliation. She no longer can say, you are her H. Here you take moral grounds. After the D, if you

then decide to meet other women, do so. At least it was not under the guise of a marriage.

Also....... if you choose D and she wants nothing else to do with you..... well that shows how much

she really was invested.


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## Truthseeker1

scaredlion said:


> I knew a man whose wife cheated on him, was sorry and wanted to save her marriage. He told her that she owed him a debt to have sex with another woman as many times as she had sex with her AP. He told her that as long as their marriage had only two people in it that he wouldn't collect on the debt. But if the marriage ever again had three people then he was going to expand it to four because he was going to collect everything he was owed. The last I heard they were still happily together and he had never had to collect on her debt.


So he basically let his wife get away with it?


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## Truthseeker1

Chuck71 said:


> Let's review......... She cheats w/o your consent / permission. Now she gives her consent / permission to
> 
> cheat since she already did. Doesn't quite seem fair to me. Like a poster stated, state you did
> 
> cheat and watch her reaction. I doubt she will go ballistic, this was HER idea. Will she say -Now you
> 
> got to cheat, drop it- or -Cool now we're even, now proceed with our lives-
> 
> Doesn't appear to balance out the pain does it? A Hangover Crew friend several years back.... dated a
> 
> female, really liked her. She cheated. He countered with two flings where she knew every
> 
> detail or four where he would not say a word until they were completed and nothing would
> 
> be shared about them. BTW.... this was brought up when they got serious, maybe 18 months prior.
> 
> She chose four and not knowing. He felt redemption but she couldn't get past it.
> 
> They separated. I still recommend divorce. Not saying 180 / NC her. A divorce can be your
> 
> retaliation. She no longer can say, you are her H. Here you take moral grounds. After the D, if you
> 
> then decide to meet other women, do so. At least it was not under the guise of a marriage.
> 
> Also....... if you choose D and she wants nothing else to do with you..... well that shows how much
> 
> she really was invested.


IMO a "hall pass" is NOT an RA its a took for the WS to make their affair go away with minimal consequences. Sometimes a RA will work but sometimes it wont. In this case i think the OP's wife would welcome it to have her own affair go away and never be discussed again.


The woman who could not get past the flings is a hypocritical POS IMO. But why shouldn't cheaters add that to their resume.


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## Stang197

JohnA said:


> Wow just saw the post author I mentioned posted here too.
> 
> @Srang197 I think you are making yourself proud too.


I am not proud of my actions. I was trying to illustrate to the OP that , at least for me, a RA will not fix the pain. It will probably cause different pain. I regret what I did. And the pain it caused , especially to my kids. I think if the OP feels like he needs to get even the best thing is to just divorce. Maybe down the road they could work it out.


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## Truthseeker1

Rubix Cubed said:


> But you're not giving the precise equivalent of what you received. She did this because she wanted to and you were never a part of the equation. You would be doing it BECAUSE of her infidelity. It's not even close to being equal. If you just want some strange ,then by all means this is your chance, but you will not feel like you've made things square when you're done, because you haven't. You can't ,no matter what you do.


A "hall pass" or even an announced RA is not the same thing - in order for it to be equal it has to be a sucker punch and a self-esteem killer. Folks who talk about cheaters not forgiving an affair well that says there is a power imbalance in the marriage in the WSs favor. If you are a BS who remains married to a WS who wont forgive your indiscretion well then they have more power in that relationship than you do. You are not in a marriage of equals. they will walk away and obviously you wont. You need to think long and hard about remaining married to such a person.


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## Chris Taylor

Faking a revenge affair will certainly backfire. OP goes out, does nothing, comes back and says he had a one night stand. Wife now feels they are on even playing ground.

OP says "no, just kidding" and wife says that he's saying that just to wiggle out of the "even playing field" position. OP has now lost the moral high ground and wife will never believe otherwise.

Also, if the other guy still lives with mom and dad, expose him to his parents.


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## Truthseeker1

Chris Taylor said:


> Faking a revenge affair will certainly backfire. OP goes out, does nothing, comes back and says he had a one night stand. Wife now feels they are on even playing ground.
> 
> OP says "no, just kidding" and wife says that he's saying that just to wiggle out of the "even playing field" position. OP has now lost the moral high ground and wife will never believe otherwise.
> 
> Also, if the other guy still lives with mom and dad, expose him to his parents.


Agreed - do or dont do - dont threaten, dont ask just decide a course of action and follow through..the Ws never asks permission or announces their intentions so why should the BS.


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## Dannip

Payment for this act must be paid in full. By the cheater. No other way. This needs a sudden wake up call. Otherwise you are merely playing around and stirring things up emotionally. Accomplishing Absolutely Nothing. 

Proceed with Divorce. 

Feel free to date her afterwards. Keep in mind you can also date other ladies who won't cheat. I'm pretty sure if you're single you would avoid known, proven cheaters...


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## MattMatt

Truthseeker1 said:


> A "hall pass" or even an announced RA is not the same thing - in order for it to be equal it has to be a sucker punch and a self-esteem killer. Folks who talk about cheaters not forgiving an affair well that says there is a power imbalance in the marriage in the WSs favor. If you are a BS who remains married to a WS who wont forgive your indiscretion well then they have more power in that relationship than you do. You are not in a marriage of equals. they will walk away and obviously you wont. You need to think long and hard about remaining married to such a person.


I had a RA. It hit me worse than my wife's affair.

I was on Seroxat for a while.

I nearly destroyed myself.


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## Truthseeker1

MattMatt said:


> I had a RA. It hit me worse than my wife's affair.
> 
> I was on Seroxat for a while.
> 
> I nearly destroyed myself.


Like @Dyokemm everyone is different - some NEED retribution and some dont..it depends on the person...


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## TheTruthHurts

OP I don't have experience here so I won't offer an opinion about a RA

However one thing to think about: assuming you have a RA and then R, wouldn't you assume that the goal of a successful R is to love and cherish each other? Wouldn't that be the goal? And if you achieve that, you would look at your W's face the way you did pre-DDay - but instead of love, wouldn't you feel shame and / or guilt? Even if it was just at the time?

That's what I can't get past. Looking beyond the RA and the R you have to assume you will no longer feel the way you do today. So it can't possible help you in the future.

Anyway, all options are troubling


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Emerging Buddhist

Gloomy Sunday said:


> An RA will boost my self-esteem and if it doesn't work, so be it. Justice is equality and fairness or as Plato put it : A just man is a man in just the right place, doing his best and *giving the precise equivalent of what he has received.*
> 
> ---
> 
> Because mistake or not she would be a hypocrite to tell me that sleeping with another woman is wrong.
> 
> ---
> 
> And to repeat myself, she did not offer a RA, I told her that I possibly planned on doing it and she said to go ahead if I feel it will make things better.


If it's thought that revenge (RA) is a balance best applied to a relationship hurt by infidelity you may find it more a see-saw than a scale.

When you play with fragile... things break.


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## TAMAT

Yea, a revenge affair is like drilling a second hole in a boat to keep it from sinking.

Tamat


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## MattMatt

TAMAT said:


> Yea, a revenge affair is like drilling a second hole in a boat to keep it from sinking.
> 
> Tamat


Yeah. We needed double the amount of caulking!


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## Dyokemm

TAMAT said:


> Yea, a revenge affair is like drilling a second hole in a boat to keep it from sinking.
> 
> Tamat


I totally understand your point Tamat......and I believe this is 100% true.....FOR YOU.

But IMO, some people, if they can't feel they 'balanced accounts' with the WS, won't give a d*mn that the boat is sinking.

That's why I have always believe revenge, payback, whatever you want to call it......is so PERSONAL a consideration.

Trying to tell a person they are wrong about seeking revenge is like trying to tell them they are wrong about their own feelings. 

What I always say to someone is this:

Do what you feel you have to.......but be prepared to accept any consequences of what you decide.

If an RA ends up being the coup de grace to your M......be prepared to accept that BEFORE acting.

Don't do it.....then whine about how it's unfair your M is ending.....that you didn't want that...just revenge.

Well.....you should have known and accepted BEFORE the RA that it might mean the end of things.....and be at peace with that possibility.

But, in the end, do what YOU feel you have to and then live with the results.


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## Truthseeker1

Dyokemm said:


> Do what you feel you have to.......but be prepared to accept any consequences of what you decide.
> 
> If an RA ends up being the coup de grace to your M......be prepared to accept that BEFORE acting.
> 
> Don't do it.....then whine about how it's unfair your M is ending.....that you didn't want that...just revenge.
> 
> Well.....you should have known and accepted BEFORE the RA that it might mean the end of things.....and be at peace with that possibility.
> 
> But, in the end, do what YOU feel you have to and then live with the results.


You must admit a cheater who wont forgive the same is a detestable hypocrite. It also shows they never cared - which is why they cheate din the first place. It also shows the BS those things.


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## sokillme

My feeling about RA is goes along with my saying, never love someone enough to let them abuse you. Never love someone enough to allow that take your honor away from you. There is such a thing as too much love. 

Beyond that what the purpose to somehow make everything back to the way it was? How does an RA do that? You had a faithful marriage, now you have one with infidelity, then you will have one with more infidelity. If you want a whole marriage again start over with her or someone else. If you divorce and date you can keep your honor get your power back and decide if there is better by testing the waters. If she really does cherish you she will compete for you. If not she wasn't worth the trouble. In the end I think once you get out there and start to see the hope of being with someone without all this new baggage you will just move on.


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## Truthseeker1

sokillme said:


> Beyond that what the purpose to somehow make everything back to the way it was? How does an RA do that? You had a faithful marriage, now you have one with infidelity, then you will have one with more infidelity. If you want a whole marriage again start over with her or someone else. If you divorce and date you can keep your honor get your power back and decide if there is better by testing the waters. If she really does cherish you she will compete for you. If not she wasn't worth the trouble. In the end I think once you get out there and start to see the hope of being with someone without all this new baggage you will just move on.


This is the most solid path IMO. Boot them and see what else is out there. If they wait and remain faithful then they want the marriage - if they start shagging then you know they were ever serious. And you could get the good fortune of trading up while not being an SOB for doing so. Win win lol

When BSs talk about how great their WS is now - I want to say yeah but you can have that with a person who doesnt cheat. Of course they WS is happy they got away with it. Period.


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## sokillme

Truthseeker1 said:


> This is the most solid path IMO. Boot them and see what else is out there. If they wait and remain faithful then they want the marriage - if they start shagging then you know they were ever serious. And you could get the good fortune of trading up while not being an SOB for doing so. Win win lol
> 
> When BSs talk about how great their WS is now - I want to say yeah but you can have that with a person who doesnt cheat. Of course they WS is happy they got away with it. Period.


This and I am also a big proponent of restoring the power dynamic. I don't think you get that from an RA because it can still be seen as something unseemly. But if you go about it this way then the WS has to compete and that proves you are not plan B. It also gives you full agency back in your life. You are not dependent on being with the WS if you choose to start over for any other reason then you chose to, and they chose to.


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## Truthseeker1

sokillme said:


> This and I am also a big proponent of restoring the power dynamic. I don't think you get that from an RA because it can still be seen as something unseemly. But if you go about it this way then the WS has to compete and that proves you are not plan B. It also gives you full agency back in your life. You are not dependent on being with the WS if you choose to start over for any other reason then you chose to, and they chose to.



Solid thinking IMO. I will say this any BS that stays with a WS who declares they will never forgive their infidelity is staying in a marriage where the WS has all the power. They cheat - you stay. You cheat - they leave. Ive read on other boards BHs defend this as some kind of positive that their WW is standing up for boundaries and standards. I want to them them no their not - she is telling you she has all the power and you are weak enough to live under an unfair dynamic like that. 

I dont judge folks who have RAs - whatever they need to do to heal. But it is not always the best strategy. Ive read MHs where the WS complains how unfair it was to be both a BS and WS at the same time as if their spouse isnt going through the same thing. SMH.


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## Stang197

sokillme said:


> Truthseeker1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the most solid path IMO. Boot them and see what else is out there. If they wait and remain faithful then they want the marriage - if they start shagging then you know they were ever serious. And you could get the good fortune of trading up while not being an SOB for doing so. Win win lol
> 
> When BSs talk about how great their WS is now - I want to say yeah but you can have that with a person who doesnt cheat. Of course they WS is happy they got away with it. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> This and I am also a big proponent of restoring the power dynamic. I don't think you get that from an RA because it can still be seen as something unseemly. But if you go about it this way then the WS has to compete and that proves you are not plan B. It also gives you full agency back in your life. You are not dependent on being with the WS if you choose to start over for any other reason then you chose to, and they chose to.
Click to expand...


I think your right. Just divorce. See how they treat you in the divorce. The divorce will be the only way to balance the scale. If they are truly sorry and you can forgive without revenge then work on the marriage.


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## JohnA

You need to accept that this is a LTA. (long term adultery). Yes you want answers, but for now expose, file and sit back. You cannot rebuild on a lie "a ONS". It was not. She used your mutual friend as a cover. Talk with him about it. Explain how POSM knows you wife. 

Read this Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums on how to expose. See a Lawyer today.


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## LosingHim

If you want to completely sink your marriage and make it worse than just one instance of infidelity, go ahead and have an RA. Then you can both feel like sh*t and hate each other while you pretend it's getting better because you're "even".


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## Truthseeker1

LosingHim said:


> If you want to completely sink your marriage and make it worse than just one instance of infidelity, go ahead and have an RA. Then you can both feel like sh*t and hate each other while you pretend it's getting better because you're "even".


I think @sokillme gave the best advice so far. If the OP needs to do something this is better than an RA since his WS is using the Ra to make things go away.


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## drifting on

TAMAT said:


> Yea, a revenge affair is like drilling a second hole in a boat to keep it from sinking.
> 
> Tamat




I apologize for the thread jack, but as soon as I read this the three stooges skit came to mind!! Curly drilling more holes in the boat to drain it!! Lol!!! Love those guys!!


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## drifting on

Dyokemm said:


> I totally understand your point Tamat......and I believe this is 100% true.....FOR YOU.
> 
> But IMO, some people, if they can't feel they 'balanced accounts' with the WS, won't give a d*mn that the boat is sinking.
> 
> That's why I have always believe revenge, payback, whatever you want to call it......is so PERSONAL a consideration.
> 
> Trying to tell a person they are wrong about seeking revenge is like trying to tell them they are wrong about their own feelings.
> 
> What I always say to someone is this:
> 
> Do what you feel you have to.......but be prepared to accept any consequences of what you decide.
> 
> If an RA ends up being the coup de grace to your M......be prepared to accept that BEFORE acting.
> 
> Don't do it.....then whine about how it's unfair your M is ending.....that you didn't want that...just revenge.
> 
> Well.....you should have known and accepted BEFORE the RA that it might mean the end of things.....and be at peace with that possibility.
> 
> But, in the end, do what YOU feel you have to and then live with the results.




I see many good points in this, despite my opinion that I think a revenge affair is not the way to handle it. We are all different and respond to infidelity in our own way. I certainly showed that to be true as many here feel I should have divorced, and I see and understand their argument. In the end I chose my own path, what worked best for me, and many here would not have found my path to be correct for them.


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## drifting on

LosingHim said:


> If you want to completely sink your marriage and make it worse than just one instance of infidelity, go ahead and have an RA. Then you can both feel like sh*t and hate each other while you pretend it's getting better because you're "even".




I think this has a very good possibility of happening. If the marriage doesn't work out and they do divorce OP will be shown to seek revenge, add in the physical throwing of her on the bed and his divorce just got that much more difficult. His wife could then show he has anger management issues, a shark lawyer could make him pay dearly for this.


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## sokillme

drifting on said:


> I think this has a very good possibility of happening. If the marriage doesn't work out and they do divorce OP will be shown to seek revenge, add in the physical throwing of her on the bed and his divorce just got that much more difficult. His wife could then show he has anger management issues, a shark lawyer could make him pay dearly for this.


Yeah OP needs to detach and detach hard before he lets this destroy his life worse and this time by his own doing. This place is the saddest place on the net, SI being worse. :frown2:


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## Warrior73

drifting on said:


> Gloomy
> 
> Comparing infidelity to punching someone who punched you walking down the street, is laughable. In infidelties case a man reacts differently. Any idiot will respond to being punched in the face while walking down the street. Most with a punch back, and whomever punched first isn't probably worried about forgiveness. Unlike your wife who is most concerned about receiving forgiveness. Don't compare or confuse the two, react like a man to infidelity and you will be much better off. However you seem concerned with revenge, to hurt your wife as much as she hurt you. This is very telling of your character, or I'm completely wrong, but wanting to hurt her shows your love for her is shallow. She hurt you so now you have to hurt her? What if you decide she wasn't as hurt as you with your ONS? Going to do it again? Until you do decide she has hurt enough? What kind of love is that for your spouse?
> 
> You see gloomy, you quoted Plato and even highlighted a part. It's not something you can achieve, she knows you are going to have a ONS, Plato is, GIVING THE EXACT EQUIVALENT. How do you get this, how do you get the exact equivalent of she knows? So Plato says to throw your beliefs and morals away so you can be the same as your wife? What do you think that will do to your self esteem?
> 
> Self esteem isn't measured by your wife cheating or you having you own ONS. It's measured by you, only you, and the poster who said you are broken is right. Your self esteem took a hit with your wife cheating, but if you have sex with your wife tonight and she says you are the best ever, your self esteem isn't returning. You are broken, you need help, and you need to get your head out of your ass to react like a man would. You may see that as harsh or even provoking, it's not meant to be, but a man responds using intelligence, beliefs, and making smart choices. You haven't shown that yet, especially by getting physical with your wife. I seriously hope you have more intelligence and can make far better decisions then you have been showing. So many posters have given you good advice, you don't seem to take any, and that will fall squarely on you. Respond like a man, respond like a husband who isn't hell bent on revenge, respond firmly without childish anger and physical actions.
> 
> OM may not have vows with you, did he know your wife was married? Then he had every intention of blowing up your marriage without disregard for you. As others have said, your wife knows OM far better then you let on, does your wife jump into bed with everyone she only has ten minutes of contact with per week? Does she have sex with everyone who shares interest in her hobby? Most likely not, so one must ask why she risked everything to be with OM. Oh, I know, you are going to stick with your story, but you better ask her just how well she knows OM, you will probably be very surprised how much they talk. Or, your wife just has poor boundaries and jumps into bed with everyone who likes her hobby. That last statement was to provoke you to talk to your wife about how well she knows OM.


He's angry and that isn't going away anytime soon. It's a little to early too be talking about forgiveness. If he decides that he wants to go that route, it is going to take time. If I was in his shoes, I would be gone, but that's me. I would never be able to trust that person again...who is she talking to on the phone, who is she texting, where is she going and with whom...who wants to live like that? On another note, it's obvious that there has been some kind of attraction between his wife and the OM for a while. This wouldn't have happened if there wasn't.


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## JohnA

Drill another hole in the boat. Great joke: two guys rent a boat and to fish. They find a spot and pull in a boat load of fish. The first says to second we have to mark this spot so we can come back here next year. The second says no problem it's taken care off. On the way home the frist says you sure you marked the spot. The second responds YEA, I put a great big X on the borrrom of the boat. His bud screams you idot how do you know we will get the same boat next time!

Actually kinda mirrors my advise not to have an RA.


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## RWB

LosingHim said:


> If you want to completely sink your marriage and make it worse than just one instance of infidelity, go ahead and have an RA. Then you can both feel like sh*t and hate each other while you pretend it's getting better because you're "even".


In Marriage just as in War... always take the High Ground.


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## Truthseeker1

RWB said:


> In Marriage just as in War... always take the High Ground.


Or do what you need to do to even out and even switch the balance of power to your favor. I see a lot of BSs who are still struggling on the "high ground"


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## Dyokemm

LosingHim said:


> If you want to completely sink your marriage and make it worse than just one instance of infidelity, go ahead and have an RA. Then you can both feel like sh*t and hate each other while you pretend it's getting better because you're "even".


Probably true in many (if not most) situations.....but not all.

Taxman's M seems to have recovered.

And boy did he learn a harsh lesson when the shoe was on the other foot.

As I've said several times.....there is no 'one size fits all' answer to this issue......it's outcome is dependent on the personalities involved.

But any BS who feels the only way they can attempt to move forward to R is if they give the WS a taste of their own medicine had best be at peace with the fact that, depending on how their WS responds, the outcome you describe is a very real possibility.

After considering and accepting that, if they still think it is something they need to do......well then, they need to do what they think is necessary for themselves in their M.

And then live with the outcome.


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## Truthseeker1

Dyokemm said:


> Probably true in many (if not most) situations.....but not all.
> 
> Taxman's M seems to have recovered.
> 
> And boy did he learn a harsh lesson when the shoe was on the other foot.
> 
> As I've said several times.....there is no 'one size fits all' answer to this issue......it's outcome is dependent on the personalities involved.
> 
> But any BS who feels the only way they can attempt to move forward to R is if they give the WS a taste of their own medicine had best be at peace with the fact that, depending on how their WS responds, the outcome you describe is a very real possibility.
> 
> After considering and accepting that, if they still think it is something they need to do......well then, they need to do what they think is necessary for themselves in their M.
> 
> And then live with the outcome.


And if their WS's reaction is to leave well then you should not have reconciled with them anyway they are hypocrites (t/j fyi your mailbox is ful)


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## Dyokemm

RWB said:


> In Marriage just as in War... always take the High Ground.


If you want to make war an analogy for a M in the cisis of infidelity (and there are some obvious similarities that make the analogy useful at times) then this is actually wrong.

The high ground is not the 'be all, end all' of winning in combat....

Know what the true goal is?

Hit the enemy hard where it is LEAST expected.....gain and keep the momentum.....keep them off balance.

And never fall into rigid, automatic assumptions like 'always grab the high ground'.....

Be fluid in your thinking.....realize every tactical/strategic situation is different.....and KNOW the nature of your opponent and their weaknesses.....use those to press your advantages.

If the situation and nature of the opponent call for it.....don't hesitate to do even the most unorthodox actions to press an advantage.

In the case of dealing with infidelity....there are a multitude of possible responses for a BS (and lets be clear....these only matter to a BS that eventually wants R.....if the BS doesn't want R then just file for D and be done with it)

Should you:

Expose at work?

Immediately file for D?

Have an RA?

(And there are a host of others options too)

The answer to all these is yes.....AND no.

It depends on the situation and the nature of the BS.

If Taxman was the type of man who his W knew would likely get physically abusive, then her RA would have been a bad move.....

But she knew him.....and knew that rebalancing the books and giving him a shot of her pain might give them a shot at moving towards R.

And Taxman.....if I am way off on your situation, I apologize.....just basing my reading off the things you have recently posted.....

And trying to point an example that a person cannot say that something is 'always' a right or wrong choice.

Like war....a M in infidelity crisis is simple in terms of its desired outcomes (R or D)....

But very complex in how you choose the right tactics for the situation to achieve that goal......and there is no 'one size fits all' answer to what will be effective.

Edited to add:

Oh and one other observation in this analogy:

In war, it is the kiss of death to be PREDICTABLE.

To keep the opponent off-balance, you need to strike where they least expect you to.

And if you simply follow rote platitudes on what to do, your opponent can always make sure they are one step ahead of you in the process.


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## TRy

Gloomy Sunday said:


> After investigating I've found out that this was not planned. No kissing, lunch dates, etc. They work in separate departments and barely come in contact.


 Since you have told us that the other man's (OM) job does not make your wife emailing him possible, and that she must therefore continue seeing him in person on a regular basis, your claim that it was "not planned" is baseless on its face. When they see each other face to face, you have no way of knowing what they say (planning), what they do (kissing), or even how often (is it only once a week?), or for how long they see each other (is it really only 10 minutes?). Stop making these unsupportable statements in an attempt to give yourself the ability to rug sweep this.



Gloomy Sunday said:


> No burner phone, she is very technically inept


 Your statement that there is "No burner phone" is yet another unsupportable statement by you. If she was not hiding the burner phone, there would be no reason for her to have one. Thus you have no idea if she has a burner phone or not even if you looked. It could be at her office for all you know. And sorry, but no matter how technically inept she is, if she is smart enough not to need assisted living, she is smart enough to use a phone. There are countless threads on this site where we are told that they could not find a burner phone, only to be told months later that they found it. BTW, the OM could have set the burner phone up for her.



Gloomy Sunday said:


> The trip was not work related.


 Your wife knew that the other man (OM) "would be at the same event" even though it was "not work related" because they discussed it before the trip. Thus, contrary to your claim otherwise, it was planned that they would see each other. They shared cell numbers with each other (tell me again why she must continue to see him face to face), she deliberately "ditched" the mutual friend instead of taking the mutual friend with her to the OM's room, they exchanged text messages (even though you say she is "technically inept"), and then went to the OM's hotel room to drink with him. 

Much of what you are saying does not add up, and are designed to give yourself false reasons to quickly move on. This is typical rug sweeping behavior.


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## Dyokemm

Try just made an excellent point.

If they have had very little contact at work prior to this convention....just quick work interactions....then why did they even have each other's cell phone numbers in the first place?

I have taught with people for over 15 years and do not have their cell numbers.....I don't need them if all my interaction is at work.


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## drifting on

Gloomy

I said in post 231 that OM and your wife know each other much better then you think. Other posters had said it before my post, but @TRy said it best above. If she has to see him in person, why do they each other's cell numbers? If she has to see him in person, why can't she text him? It's obvious they're texting was quite clear at the convention, she can't do that for work? No, gloomy, she's telling you she will still see him using work as an excuse. And just so you're clear, it will be much more then ten minutes. Have you given any thought as to why she told OM she was telling you? Why would she say her life is over? 

Your wife came home, woke you up then admitted to having sex at the convention. My guess, your wife had sex with him, then realized a relationship with him may not work, but she is unsure. Came home, told you, then says she HAS to see OM ten minutes a week for work. Could it be that perhaps she is doing all she can to have a relationship with OM? If your wife knew you wouldn't take this well, don't you think she would say she won't see OM at work? No, she says she HAS to see him ten minutes a week, this keeps the affair alive. This keeps the possibility of the relationship to smolder with you none the wiser. I'd be very careful about this if I were you.


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## jsmart

@TRy raised many points that make Gloomy's confidence that this was not pre-planned and that they're still not possibly carrying on or where on prior to that night. 

I know most woman don't jump from nothing to full on sex with someone they know and work with. This has been brewing. The fact that it was not a work related function but he's there, tells me they planned that. Are you supposed to believe it was just a coincidence? Really?

As for her supposedly only seeing him at work for 10 minutes a week, there is no way to prove that. She may have a 10 minute work related activity that involves OM but they're in the same work place. Break room, copy rooms, supply closets all make places for quick smooch, or making googly eyes not to mention they can go out to lunch together. So they don't need to text. As for "knowing" that she doesn't have a burner because she's not technical, that is not to bright. Most times, the guy suggest and gets the phone for the girl.

You need to make sure you have all the truth. It was suck to think that you're forgiving a one time ONS that later turns out to have been a PA that was going on for a few months or more. Isn't it strange that you've been together for so long as boyfriend and girlfriend, then a year after putting a ring on it, she plays you out.


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## drifting on

jsmart said:


> @TRy raised many points that make Gloomy's confidence that this was not pre-planned and that they're still not possibly carrying on or where on prior to that night.
> 
> I know most woman don't jump from nothing to full on sex with someone they know and work with. This has been brewing. The fact that it was not a work related function but he's there, tells me they planned that. Are you supposed to believe it was just a coincidence? Really?
> 
> As for her supposedly only seeing him at work for 10 minutes a week, there is no way to prove that. She may have a 10 minute work related activity that involves OM but they're in the same work place. Break room, copy rooms, supply closets all make places for quick smooch, or making googly eyes not to mention they can go out to lunch together. So they don't need to text. As for "knowing" that she doesn't have a burner because she's not technical, that is not to bright. Most times, the guy suggest and gets the phone for the girl.
> 
> You need to make sure you have all the truth. It was suck to think that you're forgiving a one time ONS that later turns out to have been a PA that was going on for a few months or more. Isn't it strange that you've been together for so long as boyfriend and girlfriend, then a year after putting a ring on it, she plays you out.




TAM needs a quoted for truth button along with a super like.


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## bandit.45

Gloomy Sunday said:


> Because mistake or not she would be a hypocrite to tell me that sleeping with another woman is wrong.
> 
> They have worked at the same location for almost a year. They interact for abut 10 minutes a week. They work in seperate departments, my wife is a professional and the OM has more of a blue collar type position. The got along because of their similar interest in a hobby that my wife has. *This was not planned, it is an accidental affair aka ONS.* My wife and I both read an article that basically describes it exactly at :


What? :surprise:

Accidental? So, they just both happened to be at the same location, and he just happened upon her without her pants on...he then tripped and she caught him with her vagina? 

Stop minimizing this. Stop trying to see your wife as this clueless muffin who was caught in a compromising situation and suffered a momentary lapse of reason. Your wife lusted after this guy...for quite some time probably...and when the opportunity presented itself she banged his brains out. She did it because she wanted to. There was no accident. This kid was player who saw a woman who wanted him and when the opportunity presented itself he took advantage of it. He did what any young single dude would have done when a hot older woman made herself available to him. 

And don't think for one moment your WW wasn't responsible for the conditions that brought the two of them together. She planned the whole thing out in great detail. That's what a woman in authority can do with one of her subordinates. 

She's damn lucky if she gets out of this without a sexual harassment suit filed against her.


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## badmemory

bandit.45 said:


> And don't think for one moment your WW wasn't responsible for the conditions that brought the two of them together. She planned the whole thing out in great detail. That's what a woman in authority can do with one of her subordinates.


I agree. 

I don't claim to be an expert on women cheaters, but I think for a vast majority of them, there has to be some mental foreplay involved. Since this is a co-worker, I believe that foreplay was unlikely to have occurred in just one night.


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## TRy

The OP has not posted in a few days. If he wants to continue to minimize, rug sweep, claim that she did not plan in advance to see this co-worker at the non-work related event, and believe that she only sees this guy 10 minutes a week, he may not be coming back to this thread.


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## Dannip

His wife is just a notch on OMs bed post. He's working on even more notches. A working relationship means multiple accidental discharges. 

Just wonder if he's gonna share what happened with the rest of the "guys" in his circle. Word kinda gets around unless he's a pro. Players are really smooth. 

What did the last person to leave them together in their room ask him or her in the morning. Or was that a lie too.

If seeing him 10 minutes a week floats her boat, how about the other guys she see more frequently... I just don't know about the entire story here. She's not too forthcoming. Looks like damage control to minimize what's really going on.


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## Dyokemm

Dannip said:


> His wife is just a notch on OMs bed post. He's working on even more notches. A working relationship means multiple accidental discharges.
> 
> Just wonder if he's gonna share what happened with the rest of the "guys" in his circle. Word kinda gets around unless he's a pro. Players are really smooth.
> 
> What did the last person to leave them together in their room ask him or her in the morning. Or was that a lie too.
> 
> If seeing him 10 minutes a week floats her boat, how about the other guys she see more frequently... I just don't know about the entire story here. She's not too forthcoming. Looks like damage control to minimize what's really going on.


Oh I'm sure POSOM bragged it up endlessly to his friends that were in that room (if the W's story on this is even really true) the next morning.

I wonder if any of these other guys work with WW too?

If so....she is the talk of the water cooler and break rooms for sure.


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## drifting on

Gloomy

Are you doing ok?


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## Bfa

I hope you’re doing okay.

You honestly need to make you’re mind but no in hell will ether be easy, you’re losing the person you love or you’re going to try and cope with her cheating.

Me personally I would leave I do not except cheating I am around attractive females all day and sometimes have to train them in certain things at work but I always seen my wife(well ex-wife) as the only light but as soon as we separated I heard she was cheating on me with her very VERY first boyfriend and then left to him and I really thought about my life.

Just think of the outcome of you’re choices.

You divorce: you’re dealing with pain of losing someone you planned to spend you’re life with it hurts.

You stay: in the back of you’re head no matter what job she goes to you will wonder if she is sleeping with someone there if you have to leave on a trip without her you’re going to wonder, this causes panic attacks, really bad anxiety, and even significant amount of weight gain and just super unhealthy for you’re mental state and will destroy you.

People do work through cheating some honestly do, but for me I don’t approve or except it.

You may be a strong person mentally and love her like no tomorrow so please think long and hard about everything not just the present but the far futur as well.

Need to talk let me know I’m currently going through a divorce at this moment.


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## bandit.45

I think we call this a Zombie thread. 

OP is long gone. 

One of the mods needs to do the reverse hoodoo on this mummy and kill it.


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## farsidejunky

Zombie.

Locked.


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