# Advice on how to strengthen my marriage



## charles12345 (Jun 8, 2017)

Hi all,

I won't try and write a long post, but am going to try and fit some details in here.

I have been with my wife for 12 years (married since 2011 - 6 years). We have two kids (ages 2 and 4). We are quite busy with work, and our lives being centered around the children. We still get out as my parents live in town, but something lately has just not felt right and I have no idea why.

For the first time since knowing her, I felt something quite serious for another woman. Now I don't think it is a problem to think someone else is attractive, but I genuinely felt like I was falling for this woman. I have not, and will never cheat, but I have no idea why this person is making me feel so different. Now I am stuck as I don't feel as good about my marriage, but want to improve it and am looking for advice.

We've taken a day trip together recently, i've tried surprising my wife with flowers, but it just doesn't feel the same. In the bedroom I am normally the one that initiates and I realize that comes a bit with having kids.

I'm not sure if the kids are part of the issue for the marriage strain. We both would do anything for them but now I don't even know what my wife and I would do if we didn't have kids. I'm having trouble remembering what it was like when we were dating, and how we became so close.

Anyway - I feel rotten writing this out but really want to make me look at my wife like the only one again. For what it is worth I am trying my best to avoid this other woman as it is not healthy for me.

Thanks!


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

charles12345 said:


> For the first time since knowing her, I felt something quite serious for another woman. Now I don't think it is a problem to think someone else is attractive, but I genuinely felt like I was falling for this woman. I have not, and will never cheat, but I have no idea why this person is making me feel so different. Now I am stuck as I don't feel as good about my marriage, but want to improve it and am looking for advice.


You realize this is an emotional affair, right? And also, you realize that many full-blown affairs start out as emotional, right? Consider these things, and also, what you've admitted here. See the problem?

Look OP, you're not a bad person or anything for being attracted to another woman, but you'd be a damn fool to continue thinking so nonchalantly of it. This attraction you have for someone else is something to put behind you and never look back at. Seriously.

Generally speaking, emotional connections with those other than your SO (assuming same gender) can be a slippery slope. The ledge of closer than your think, and your footing is not as sure as you might believe! Cut ties with the other woman and direct your attentions to your wife.

If you're unhappy in your marriage, you might go to individual counseling and marriage counseling to strengthen your marriage further. Good luck!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

charles12345 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I won't try and write a long post, but am going to try and fit some details in here.
> 
> ...


How much interaction do you have with this other woman? Does she seem to have the same feelings for you?

Remember that in a marriage, feelings ebb and flow. There are times when we feel the love for out spouse less than others. But if you nurture your relationship, your feelings will return.

You say that you two get out once in a while, on dates I suppose. How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you doing things that you both enjoy?

Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". The purpose of these books is to help you restructure your marriage to help recover from what you are going through and the build a marriage that is affair proof. My suggestion if that you read the books first and do the work that they say to do on your own. Then you talk to your wife, ask her to read the books and for her to do the work with you. The reason I suggest that you read them first on your own is because that will help you think through what is going on and help you find the right words to use in talking to your wife.


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## charles12345 (Jun 8, 2017)

_anonymous_ said:


> You realize this is an emotional affair, right? And also, you realize that many full-blown affairs start out as emotional, right? Consider these things, and also, what you've admitted here. See the problem?
> 
> Look OP, you're not a bad person or anything for being attracted to another woman, but you'd be a damn fool to continue thinking so nonchalantly of it. This attraction you have for someone else is something to put behind you and never look back at. Seriously.


I actually never heard of an emotional affair but yes it sounds like it . I'm not sure why. It's not like I have been unhappy with my wife any other time in our marriage. Just someone new comes in and poof - my feelings are all out of whack. 

Oh and my goal is to put it behind me and never look back - but am having incredible difficulty feeling good even doing so. If that makes any sense at all?


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## charles12345 (Jun 8, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> You say that you two get out once in a while, on dates I suppose. How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you doing things that you both enjoy?
> 
> Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". The purpose of these books is to help you restructure your marriage to help recover from what you are going through and the build a marriage that is affair proof. My suggestion if that you read the books first and do the work that they say to do on your own. Then you talk to your wife, ask her to read the books and for her to do the work with you. The reason I suggest that you read them first on your own is because that will help you think through what is going on and help you find the right words to use in talking to your wife.


Probably not much. I'd say a 1 hour a day on weekdays and if we get out probably 3 hours on the weekend. I mean our lives are essentially:
- Wake up, get kids ready, go to work
- Come home, feed and play with kids
- Put kids to bed
- I go workout (this is something I should be doing with my self-esteem and low feeling issues)
- We have about an hour where we watch a little TV and goto bed

Weekends are quite similar without the work, but we still have the kids to look after. The 2 year old naps still, while the 4 year old doesn't so we then split up a bit as well.

I will take a look at those books, thank you for the suggestions!


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

We have two kids also and are very involved with them. When they stay at grandmas house for a few days, I notice he is much more relaxed. Maybe I am too-- don'[t know. Our relationship is far from perfect but I do see a glimpse of how he used to be when dating.. If anything, do more day trips, date nights, etc... That's something we don't do we should have years ago!!!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

charles12345 said:


> Probably not much. I'd say a 1 hour a day on weekdays and if we get out probably 3 hours on the weekend. I mean our lives are essentially:
> - Wake up, get kids ready, go to work
> - Come home, feed and play with kids
> - Put kids to bed
> ...


This is about what I thought you would say.

In order to maintain the passion and connection in a marriage, you have to spend a minimum of 15 hours a week together, just the two of you. And with the problem you are having, you really need to spend more than that for a while.

The two of you need to restructure your life so that you have about 2 hours a night during to week together and 5 to 10 hours on the weekends... that's 1 or 2 dates that are about 5 hours long.

How do you do that? Well for one thing, watching TV together does not count as time together because you are not concentrating on each other.

One way to do it is to have a nightly 'date'. After the kids are in bed, the two of you sit down and talk, look at each other and talk, maybe cuddle. Sex counts as that time too.

We had 3 children. What we used did was to have in-home dates a few times a week... when the children were asleep, we'd set up snacks and/or desert in our bedroom, have some wine or other drink (we did not drink a lot.. but a glass maybe), and we'd put on music. Sometimes we'd dance ... slow dancing. We talked--at LOT.

Do things like go for a walk together, hold hands, talk. Sometimes take a pick nick snack or desert with you. Drop your children off at your parents for 1 hour and steal a quick date.

There are ways to get that time together if you get creative.

In order to maintain the emotional connection to your wife, you need to spend time with her.. time and sex are the two ways to do this. Our brain create and uptake hormones like dopamine and oxytocin when we spend quality time with the person we love. So the more time together, the more oxytocin, etc that your brain makes and uptakes. Oxytocin is a bonding hormone. If you do not spend that quality time together, the level of oxytocin falls and you end up with what you have.... a loss of connection and you starting to form a connection to someone else.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This is a very standard - and very enticing trap. 

You have a real life with your wife. Kids, chores, all the mundane miscellany of day to day life. 

With this other woman you have a fantasy. Your time together is fun. Its new, exiting, sexy. You see her when she is happy and she sees you then. Each of you is new to the other. There are lots of unknowns about her, so your mind naturally fills in the blanks with things generated from fantasy. 

If you left your wife for this woman, things would start out great, but soon you would discover the reality. You would find that her sexual interests aren't what you fantasized they would be. You would find you were spending the same time you are now on chores. You would see her when she was in a bad mood, or sick, or tired. You would find that you had thrown away your old life for one that was no better. Maybe much worse.

If your marriage was miserable and unhappy, my advice would be different. But it sounds like your marriage is OK, an just needs some romantic excitement. Talk to your wife (not about this other woman!), but about how you would like to try to upgrade the romance. Can your kids stay with someone while you take romantic weekend away? Or just go out for dinner together? Its real work to keep romance going in the midst of a normal life, but its worth the effort.


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## jdjd (Jun 4, 2017)

If you don't know this other woman very well, your interest in her sounds like more of a crush/infatuation than an emotional affair which I think is very natural. And, good for you for not wanting to act on it. It happened to me recently; I think I'm more susceptible when my marriage isn't going well. Logically, I know acting on my feelings isn't realistic. In this specific case, I ran through different scenarios in my head for some time. All of them ended up with people getting hurt. I care too much for all parties to act on my feelings and eventually the infatuation subsided.

As far as how to build strong feelings with your wife, I like the suggestions from other posters. For me, I always felt closest to my wife when we had a project to work on together. Maybe because we are both present and spending time together.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Your wife can't compete with a shiny, new fantasy.

Imagine if your wife went for another guy who gave her butterflies and she always saw him at his best, then decided you weren't such a good deal. 

Long term partners with responsibilities can't compete with shiny and new.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Elegirl mentioned Oxytocin, 

"Oxytocin is known as the "cuddle hormone," but that simplistic moniker glosses over the complex ... *It can also make people less accepting of people they see as outsiders*. ... In men, as in women, oxytocin facilitates bonding."

One of the downsides however is that it appears that once people begin an affair the oxytocin and other brain chemicals cause them to view their spouses as outsiders. This can create feelings of hate for their spouses at the same time they are feeling intense love for their affair partners.

This might explain some of the disregard for the health and emotional well being of the spouse they once loved which happens so suddenly in many affairs.

Tamat


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TAMAT said:


> Elegirl mentioned Oxytocin,
> 
> "Oxytocin is known as the "cuddle hormone," but that simplistic moniker glosses over the complex ... *It can also make people less accepting of people they see as outsiders*. ... In men, as in women, oxytocin facilitates bonding."
> 
> ...


This is accurate. Which is why it is so important to protect one's self and the marriage from affairs.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

charles12345 said:


> I actually never heard of an emotional affair but yes it sounds like it . I'm not sure why. It's not like I have been unhappy with my wife any other time in our marriage. Just someone new comes in and poof - my feelings are all out of whack.
> 
> Oh and my goal is to put it behind me and never look back - but am having incredible difficulty feeling good even doing so. If that makes any sense at all?


You are comparing the lust and excitement that you feel for the ow with the deeper more calm love that you have for your wife. Love changes over time as does a marriage. If you were to be with the OW the same thing would happen after a few years and once you had children. 

Make sure that you do not have any contact of any sort with the ow. Don't let yourself dwell on for her a minute. Make sure you know that what you feel for her isn't love but lust, and that this whole situation is very dangerous. Don't destroy your family for a stupid crush. 

Strong boundaries with the opposite sex are very important.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Often, the best way to rekindle those original feelings is to recreate the actions you were taking when you were head over heels. The day trip and the flowers are good, but this takes sustained effort over time and, based on the timeline you provided, you're not reaching the necessary critical mass of couple time. Fortunately, your youngest is getting to the age where you can get a little sitter time so the two of you can concentrate on each other. 

Here's the real crux of the matter. When you look at your wife, you see kids, responsibilities, a mortgage, the daily grind; all those mundane things that make up what your daily life has become. When you look at the other woman, you see freshness, possibilities, freedom, the joy of discovery. But these views are both illusions and create a false dilemma. The reality of the situation is that any other relationship will only be new for a short time and would quickly turn into the same mundane things that make up ... you know ... life. Meanwhile, your wife and your real life need not be so mundane as it appears. It just takes a little time and effort. Consider this: any time you spend with, around, or even just thinking about your new crush, could be time spent with your wife, or at least thinking about or planning bonding time with you wife. This is a far better use of your mental and emotional energy, and will reap long term dividends rather than brief, fleeting glimpses of superficial happiness. 

It's amazing what the power of suggestion, even self-suggestion can do. Just tell yourself how devoted you are to your wife, how happy you are when you're together, and how you are thrilled with the prospect of spending the rest of your lives together. Make these thoughts the center of your mental and emotional focus and energy, and they will manifest in your reality. 

Also, remember always the power of human touch. Touch your wife frequently--not necessary sexually, but lovingly. Gentle caresses, a simple hand across the hips or shoulders as you pass by. A kiss every time you part ways or comeback together at the beginning or end of the day. Not only will this reaffirm your love and commitment to her, it will spark you own appreciation of her as well. Forgetting the touch is abandoning the marriage. 

Of course, it also helps if both partners are working toward this relationship enhancement together. You should tell your wife you're looking to spark things back up a bit. Does she ever do up her hair or put on a nice dress for you? Of course, with a full time job and two small children, these things tend to fall by the wayside, and understandably so. But they can also be helpful, not only to rekindle your attraction, but also for to feel feminine and desirable as well. 

All these things provide mutual benefit, and in doing so, strengthen the marriage.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You had a major crush on another woman.

It happens.

Just ignore it.


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## charles12345 (Jun 8, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> Elegirl mentioned Oxytocin,
> 
> "Oxytocin is known as the "cuddle hormone," but that simplistic moniker glosses over the complex ... *It can also make people less accepting of people they see as outsiders*. ... In men, as in women, oxytocin facilitates bonding."
> 
> ...


OK wow - this really stuck out to me. I didn't resent or hate my wife but would look down on certain things that normally wouldn't bother me, be a little more critical, not listen as well, etc. In other words being an a-hole. Going to do a little more research on the Oxytocin.


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## charles12345 (Jun 8, 2017)

Thanks all - great suggestions. I do think 15 hours a week will be tough to accomplish but will try our best. Is that the norm for most married couples? I figure we get out once every week or two just the two of us to do things. I realize TV isn't face to face but it has always been something we've done (i.e. laugh at a comedy, or watch a drama series). I would love to do walks, but we can't really just leave the house with a 2 and 4 year old inside by themselves . 

And believe me - I want this person out of my head. And not that I put myself out there, but I almost feel like I would be rejected anyway outside of being married which is then creating a terrible sense of low worth in the looks/person department. 

This is all so weird for me - for the last 10+ years I have just been happy to have her and then kids, and then a house, etc. Now like everyone says...it just feels very bland and tiresome.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

charles12345 said:


> Probably not much. I'd say a 1 hour a day on weekdays and if we get out probably 3 hours on the weekend. I mean our lives are essentially:
> - Wake up, get kids ready, go to work
> - Come home, feed and play with kids
> - Put kids to bed
> ...


Your life with any other woman would be even worse, because you'd be divorced and having to split your time between a NEW family and your kids from your first marriage.

Dr. Harley (His Needs Her Needs) states - quite correctly - that for a couple to stay 'in love' they must spend at least 10 hours a week together without kids, chores, electronics. You can't maintain a real relationship with real one-on-one time. You simply MUST find a way. It can be as simple as getting up 15 minutes earlier and sitting down with a cup of coffee or tea in the morning. Or as elaborate as an overnight stay. Or joining some sport or club together. You've forgotten that she's a human; she's just a person who takes care of things in your life right now. Bonus: the more you reconnect, the more sex she'll want and the better it will be.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

charles12345 said:


> OK wow - this really stuck out to me. I didn't resent or hate my wife but would look down on certain things that normally wouldn't bother me, be a little more critical, not listen as well, etc. In other words being an a-hole. Going to do a little more research on the Oxytocin.


It's also called PEA chemicals.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pea...1.69i57j0l2.2296j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

charles12345 said:


> OK wow - this really stuck out to me. I didn't resent or hate my wife but would look down on certain things that normally wouldn't bother me, be a little more critical, not listen as well, etc. In other words being an a-hole. Going to do a little more research on the Oxytocin.


Those books I suggested basically are dealing with how to make sure that you and your wife stay bonded (in love/passionate) to each other. The ideas in the book are how a couple keeps their Oxytocin levels up high enough FOR EACH OTHER to maintain the love/bond. The book calls it a 'love bank'. They do not go into the science behind it. But I have heard and read things from the author about the oxytocin effect.

Have you ever notice that when people are madly in love, they seem to not see any flaws of the person they love? Have you noticed that when someone falls out of love, all they can see are the flaws of the person they used to love? (like you say about yourself and how you are with your wife now?)

That in-love, cannot see the flaws rose-colored glasses are the result of plenty of oxytocin on the brain.

And seeing all of the person's flaws, being annoyed with them, that's you brain on very low to no oxytocin.

Have you ever heard of a woman who no longer wants sex with her husband? A woman who does not want him to touch her? That's a woman with low to no oxytocin on the brain. Women who have low oxytocin do not want sex and do not want to be touched.

Oxytocin is often called the amnesia hormone. See when a woman has a baby her brain is flooded with oxytocin. This does two things. One is that it causes her to hyper bond to her baby. The other thing is that the oxytocin causes a form of amnesia so that the woman does not really remember the pain of child birth. It's the same sort of amnesia a person in love has that lets them not even see the flaws in the person that they love.

I've read that if women did not get this flood of oxytocin at child birth, no woman would ever have a second child because she would remember the true level of pain she went through in child birth.

Humans are chemical engines. All you need to do to get back madly in love with your wife is to work on your marriage. (aka do what you need to do to get the oxytocin and other good brain chemicals up there in relationship to your wife.) Those books have a very good map for doing just that.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

charles12345 said:


> This is all so weird for me - for the last 10+ years I have just been happy to have her and then kids, and then a house, etc. Now like everyone says...it just feels very bland and tiresome.


Here's another little bit of counterintuitive irony... coming from a man married 30 years now and with three grown kids. 

When you're married 30 years and you and your wife look back on your life together, you will find some of your most pleasant memories to be of that run-of-the-mill, seemingly mundane existence of working together and raising children. 

You definitely need the spicy moments, but they are only spicy because they contrast from the rest. If every moment was spicy, then nothing would be spicy. 

Life in general, and marriage in particular is a constant balancing act. As soon as you think you've found balance, the weight distribution will shift and you have to rebalance. If you don't adjust, you fall off... off your career, off your parenting,... off your marriage. The good news is that the constant need for adjustment is what keeps us moving forward. If we were allowed to stagnate, we would simply die--this is also what happens to stagnant marriages.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Your wife can't compete with a shiny, new fantasy.
> 
> Imagine if your wife went for another guy who gave her butterflies and she always saw him at his best, then decided you weren't such a good deal.
> 
> Long term partners with responsibilities can't compete with shiny and new.


Some can! >

Especially, when the SO has burrs in their running shorts.

Especially, those who have tunnel vision......their SO is the only thing moving in that tunnel.....

Especially, if each keeps fresh batteries in the Energizer Bunny under their "hood".


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## charles12345 (Jun 8, 2017)

Luckily that book is available at my local library. Going to go pick it up and give it a read. However - that will then take more time away from my wife, but it's probably a good investment. 

And ya I have imagined life without her, and with only seeing my kids 1/2 time. It sucks to think about stuff like that, for instance another person acting as a father figure to my kids. However despite all the negative and all i'd be giving up, the potential to be alone (other woman leaving me), I still can't help the thinking. It's really annoying.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Why have you not told your wife?

Be Radically Transparent for a Lasting Emotional and Sexual Relationship | HuffPost


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

charles12345 said:


> Luckily *that book *is available at my local library. Going to go pick it up and give it a read. However - that will then take more time away from my wife, but it's probably a good investment.
> 
> And ya I have imagined life without her, and with only seeing my kids 1/2 time. It sucks to think about stuff like that, for instance another person acting as a father figure to my kids. However despite all the negative and all i'd be giving up, the potential to be alone (other woman leaving me), I still can't help the thinking. It's really annoying.


"that book"? There are two (2) books:
*

"Love Busters"

"His Needs, Her Needs"
*The author of both books are Dr. Harley

ETA: The books will not take all that much time away from your wife. They are a quick read.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> You definitely need the spicy moments, but they are only spicy because they contrast from the rest. If every moment was spicy, then nothing would be ****.


I agree, y'all need a decent dose of me >


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Where do you know this woman from? If you already said, I'm sorry I missed it. I hope you don't work with her.
You need to change your circumstances so you don't see her at all.


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