# Sex Journal Discussion



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

To avoid a thread jack, I am starting a new thread over a post I made when someone stated a sex journal was counter productive. 

My post:

"_I did this when I had initially reached my point. 

It was quite simple, really.

After being shamed, gaslighted, and treated with hostility for wanting sex with my wife 2-3 times a week, I wanted an accurate picture of how often my advances were shunned versus embraced.

Turns out I was batting somewhere around 5%, despite her assertion that we had sex "all the time".

Sometimes cold, hard facts are needed to push through ******."_

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

From @Cici1990 :

_I guess in my mind being given weekly or monthly data sheets on our sex life is only going to push me further away. That’s just me._

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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I keep a journal of our sexual activity. My wife is fully aware of the fact that I do this and she can access it anytime she wants, but I don't regularly review it with her or anything. I am just a data junky, so I like to keep track of things. I think it could be a useful diagnostic tool when things aren't going right. I also like to look for trends before they become a problem.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

At that point, I had tried everything positive. I was already doing house work, spoiling her, doing my share with our son, and had been for years. 

So I simply embraced her position. I only gave the effort I felt like. I reduced the proverbial thermostat to zero.

She needed help with the animals? Nope, they aren't mine. Not my problem.

She wanted me to open a difficult jar? Not my problem. 

She wanted me to listen to her about her day? Not my circus, not my monkeys. 

"No, thank you. I don't really feel like listening."

I was done. Not only was I doing exactly what she was doing to me in the ways she expected (and was used to as I had done it for YEARS) me to help her, I was reducing my own resentment because I stopped investing in her when she wasn't reciprocating.

And the list was more for me, to make sure the gaslighting wasn't truth. 

So I encourage all people in sex-starved marriages, who are being gaslighted, to use facts to confirm you are being bullshitted. 

That is also why I encourage them to stop allowing the refusing partner to be comfortable in the midst of their own discomfort. 

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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> At that point, I had tried everything positive. I was already doing house work, spoiling her, doing my share with our son, and had been for years.
> 
> So I simply embraced her position. I only gave the effort I felt like. I reduced the proverbial thermostat to zero.
> 
> ...


Are you still with this woman?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I have kept one for a while now. It’s a useful tool for me in many ways as I explained in my “My Story” thread.

For one thing the fact that my wife knows I keep it and that I am meticulous means she knows that I am acutely aware of what is going on when she skips a day. She now has a mental note of the last time we did it and how many days it has been and thinks about whether it is acceptable or not.

I don’t have mine password protected or anything so she can read it if she wanted to as she has my phone password and easy access to it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

One more note.

Nothing changed until I embraced the position of reducing the thermostat. 

We are now in a healthy, happy, laugh-filled, sexual relationship, with experimentation and a large menu of bedroom activities.



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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

In my opinion keeping a journal about sex is probably become too associated with the internet meme with everyone joking about a spreadsheet where he documented where most of his advances were refused.









Pouty Husband Sends Wife Spreadsheet Detailing Sex-Life Dissatisfaction


Reddit user throwwwwaway29 has a husband, and her husband is fed up. He is so fed up that this morning he sent her an email that contained the above spreadsheet, detailing all the times she has denied him sex over the course of the last month or so.




deadspin.com





If we look at that, we can all relate. Many of us have heard those exact same excuses. Some of us have even been in situations exactly like that spreadsheet where it only happens about three times over the course of seven weeks. 

Perhaps were this husband could have done better would been to keep notes on positive things as well. Perhaps on all the days the wife said YES the husband should have made some notes about why she accepted his advanced. When I look at that spreadsheet I notice that 2 out of 3 times she said yes were associated with the weekend, and that some weekends he did not initiate until Monday rolled around.

Perhaps a spreadsheet like this, if intended to help the marriage could have been a good segue into a discussion about scheduling sex. That could have created a situation for the wife to communicate that certain days or certain times of the day are more favorable. 

When I worked through a similar situation with my wife, I learned that she rejects me for the following reasons:

A) she does not like sex to be rushed, the idea of having to run to an appointment and not getting to snuggle afterwards was emotionally unsettling. From that I appreciated that she wanted to hug me afterwards (as I enjoy that too). 

B) In the evenings she has often had a busy day and needs personal space to unwind. If I try to initiate at this time, it makes her feel like that she can't rest until checking that one additional thing off the list of obligations. As a result we have shifted our schedules around and we take a long lunch, starting out with going somewhere nice for a lite lunch date to pamper ourselves and connect emotionally before getting back to the house for our quality time.

We learned other things as well, but the point being with keeping a journal is to try and be positive, constructively solve problems, and be patient so that you can learn from keeping a journal.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

I’d leave my husband if he started keeping spreadsheets, journals, or other record keeping about our sex life. If I didn’t leave him I’d at least stop having sex with him all together and see how he likes that. I find it absolutely obsessive and ridiculous.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

badsanta said:


> In my opinion keeping a journal about sex is probably become too associated with the internet meme with everyone joking about a spreadsheet where he documented where most of his advances were refused.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This was exactly what prompted me to start one. But I never presented it to her. 

I wanted to have objective reality to prevent the gaslighting from working. 

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Cici1990 said:


> I’d leave my husband if he started keeping spreadsheets, journals, or other record keeping about our sex life. If I didn’t leave him I’d at least stop having sex with him all together and see how he likes that. I find it absolutely obsessive and ridiculous.


If you were gaslighting him or shaming him for wanting sex with you, I would hope for his sake that you would. 

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Are you still with this woman?


Happily, no less. 

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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> At that point, I had tried everything positive. I was already doing house work, spoiling her, doing my share with our son, and had been for years.
> 
> So I simply embraced her position. I only gave the effort I felt like. I reduced the proverbial thermostat to zero.
> 
> ...


It sure sounds like the only interest in your wife you have is having sex.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Wow people actually do this? I thought this was something teenagers did when they would try and have sex, and keep a count of it and share with friends lol. Do you give your partners marks out of 10 too? I'd be gutted if I found my partner was keeping a record of all the times we had sex/made love. 

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark


YNWA


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It sure sounds like the only interest in your wife you have is having sex.


Sex is the topic at hand, so I can see how it would sound that way. 

Given that, it was the most important need from my wife in our marriage, and she was shaming and gaslighting to avoid it. 

Of course that makes it amplified.

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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> I’d leave my husband if he started keeping spreadsheets, journals, or other record keeping about our sex life. If I didn’t leave him I’d at least stop having sex with him all together and see how he likes that. I find it absolutely obsessive and ridiculous.


So mean!


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Cici1990 said:


> I’d leave my husband if he started keeping spreadsheets, journals, or other record keeping about our sex life. If I didn’t leave him I’d at least stop having sex with him all together and see how he likes that. I find it absolutely obsessive and ridiculous.


🤨 Better hope he doesn't, cause you won't have much luck finding someone that would put up with your landmine attitude.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I think if your marriage has gotten to the point where you are making a spreadsheet to show your wife how little sex she gives you, then you might as well attach the spreadsheet to the divorce papers and have her sign them. Your marriage is already pretty much dead.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> I'd be gutted if I found my partner was keeping a record of all the times we had sex/made love.


no more gutted than your partner would already be feeling if sex was few and far between and you were rejecting 95% of his initiations, as with OPs case...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I remember your story. I thought she was a total brat in all areas and not just about sex. Do you think she changed only because she didn’t want a divorce? In other words, can you really trust such a major change about sex to be real?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> To avoid a thread jack, I am starting a new thread over a post I made when someone stated a sex journal was counter productive.
> 
> My post:
> 
> ...


Several years back when my wife was too preoccupied for sex, she would always say ,"We just had sex the other night!" I started to keep track and then i could correct her that "No, is was 12 days ago" . She was so wrapped up in daily living things that she did not realize it had been that long ago. I was real close to punching out as i felt she did not give a **** about me.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

The last day my wife and I didn’t have sex was October 26 2018.
I don’t expect anyone to believe this but it’s true.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I think the point that everyone is missing is that this was just one tool of many that were used to right the ship.

This isn't a story about a failed marriage, rather it's a story about a recovered marriage. 

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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Wow people actually do this? I thought this was something teenagers did when they would try and have sex, and keep a count of it and share with friends lol. Do you give your partners marks out of 10 too? I'd be gutted if I found my partner was keeping a record of all the times we had sex/made love.
> 
> When you walk through a storm
> Hold your head up high
> ...


Some people here actually do have a rating system that they use for each encounter and yes that is documented as well.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> Some people here actually do have a rating system that they use for each encounter and yes that is documented as well.


I added mine late. The diary app I use to keep track you can star something. So if there is something really good I highlight it with a star.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> Some people here actually do have a rating system that they use for each encounter and yes that is documented as well.


Wow haha. I'd be worried if anyone found my sex records/list if I suddenly died. My adult kids would be horrified. 

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark


YNWA


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Near the end of my first marriage, I kept track. It helped push me over the edge and leave her (as fixing was no longer possible), which I should have done many years earlier, so it was one more useful tool.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Any women out there keeping a spreadsheet or journal of every sexual encounter with their husbands?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

On one hand, it comes across a bit autistic, but on the other hand I can see the utility in it, depending on how it’s executed and in what context.

If one is keeping a record in order to show their spouse how infrequent sex really is, and thinking that will help their spouse “see it their way“ - it’s not going to help. Their spouse already knows they don’t have sex much, and doesn’t care. 
And if they just continue to complain to their spouse about the lack of sex (as proven by their documentation), instead of taking definitive action - pathetic and ineffective.

Now, if it’s used to bolster a decisive course of action (to drive home the extent of sexlessness in the marriage to counter gaslighting), I can see possible value in it. If it’s used as a punctuation mark rather than a plea for validation/change, I get it.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Any women out there keeping a spreadsheet or journal of every sexual encounter with their husbands?


I’d suspect not
1. The simple reason (which only requires about 7 seconds of rational thought to figure out) is that in the vast majority of sexless marriages, the husband wants sex and the wife does not. Simple math.
2. Additionally, men are far more likely to take a rational approach to an emotional problem and come up with and autistic idea like that.
3. What’s your point?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

The other reason is pretty simple. I was in a bad place mentally when I realized that I was either going to fix my situation or leave her.

So to avoid making a rash decision that wasn’t rooted in reality I needed to have a record of reality.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

I use https://nicetracker.app/


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> The other reason is pretty simple. I was in a bad place mentally when I realized that I was either going to fix my situation or leave her.
> 
> So to avoid making a rash decision that wasn’t rooted in reality I needed to have a record of reality.


Nailed it. 

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

CharlieParker said:


> I use https://nicetracker.app/


Do you actually use this, or is this in jest?

This is nuts. 

ETA: What I should have said is that what it has the ability to do is nuts. 

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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Do you actually use this, or is this in jest?
> 
> This is nuts.
> 
> ETA: What I should have said is that what it has the ability to do is nuts.


Yes, I use it, not sharing any screenshot. It's not perfect, but easier than a custom SQL database.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

CharlieParker said:


> I use https://nicetracker.app/


Wow.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Openminded said:


> I remember your story. I thought she was a total brat in all areas and not just about sex. Do you think she changed only because she didn’t want a divorce? In other words, can you really trust such a major change about sex to be real?


Sorry, but is this directed at me? I didn't want to presume. 

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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I never tracked with my ex. I suspect it was once a week. I do believe that people need to be held accountable for their actions, including the action of refusing sex to their partner.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Any women out there keeping a spreadsheet or journal of every sexual encounter with their husbands?


Probably some that keep record of everytime SO does something to piss them off or hurts their feelings. They usually call it a diary...journal for the youngsters here.


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Any women out there keeping a spreadsheet or journal of every sexual encounter with their husbands?


Yes, kind of.
It was during my ridiculously high drive years.
Although we were having a lot of sex, daring sex and kinky sex etc, I was being left very unsatisfied and frustrated due to him always finishing first. 
So where as the guys here log encounters, I logged orgasms. (His number compared to my number, over a 6 month period)

Having the cold hard facts did nothing to improve the situation though. It was probably the beginning of the end.

I did use to write a brief recount of some of our acts as they were rather sexy to look back on.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I did for a while, but that made me even more depressed...  Regarding lowering the thermostat, I did that too. I only got pity sex until she had to, detaching nevertheless. We should have divorced 20 years ago. But then I'm weak, co-dependent, a doormat, a beta man who got what he deserved.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Any women out there keeping a spreadsheet or journal of every sexual encounter with their husbands?


Raising my hand. My husband had high blood pressure and the meds could cause ED. He tried various meds to find the right balance of side effects he could handle and I tracked their effect.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

No but I did mentally note the date we last had sex when I was married because my then husband claimed we had sex once a week and really it was more like once or twice a month. And then he did it to appease me. Pressuring him didn't help. I tried altering my appearance, jumping through hoops to try and please him from time to time but in the end he just didn't want me. 

In the end I don't think journaling would have helped anything. He didn't really want to be there. But I do think sometimes about stories on TAM where people adjust their own behavior and really work through the other issues and resentments and it does seem to help but where it is about drive, it doesn't seem to. I'd rather be alone though than go through all that again. It's way more peaceful being by yourself than leaning on someone else to fulfill you sexually.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

joannacroc said:


> No but I did mentally note the date we last had sex when I was married because my then husband claimed we had sex once a week and really it was more like once or twice a month. And then he did it to appease me. Pressuring him didn't help. I tried altering my appearance, jumping through hoops to try and please him from time to time but in the end he just didn't want me.
> 
> In the end I don't think journaling would have helped anything. He didn't really want to be there. But I do think sometimes about stories on TAM where people adjust their own behavior and really work through the other issues and resentments and it does seem to help but where it is about drive, it doesn't seem to. I'd rather be alone though than go through all that again. It's way more peaceful being by yourself than leaning on someone else to fulfill you sexually.


Perfectly said.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

It seems like a useful way to flush out the difference between these two responses:
(a) "There's something I want from you" -- _"How dare you! You can't control me! etc etc"_
and
(b) "There's something I want from you" -- _"I'm not able to do that. I wish I was. Let's talk about it."_ 

Makes no diff whether the "something" is sex, always be home from work on time, or whatever


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Any women out there keeping a spreadsheet or journal of every sexual encounter with their husbands?


I did with my ex husband only to show him that his performance anxiety was becoming a common occurrence. I didn't have anything fancy. I marked a * on my appointment calendar whenever we had sex and a / after it if he had ED. He was none too happy when I showed him his stats but it's the only way I could convince him to go see a therapist.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Lila said:


> I did with my ex husband only to show him that his performance anxiety was becoming a common occurrence. I didn't have anything fancy. I marked a * on my appointment calendar whenever we had sex and a / after it if he had ED. He was none too happy when I showed him his stats but it's the only way I could convince him to go see a therapist.


I used to put a * on the calendar in the hall... my wife never noticed...


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I didn't, but I wish I had. Especially since I was told that I was rewriting history, and that we weren’t in a sexless marriage. 😒


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I used to put a * on the calendar in the hall... my wife never noticed...


Mine was in my personal google calendar so he never saw it until I share it with him. He figured it out fast and to say he was unhappy was an understatement.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Lila said:


> Mine was in my personal google calendar so he never saw it until I share it with him. He figured it out fast and to say he was unhappy was an understatement.


Tell him, "Welcome to my world" I have been unhappy for a while.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Man Sends Wife Spreadsheet Of All Her Excuses Not To Have Sex


Man Sends Wife Spreadsheet Of All Her Excuses Not To Have Sex




www.huffpost.com


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Sorry, but is this directed at me? I didn't want to presume.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Yep.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

People are encouraged to track everything under the sun - but, track your sex life? Oh, the horror! As if notches on bedposts haven't been around forever. I'm sure the county health dept will be most grateful to those who keep track of their love lives when they come calling.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Lila said:


> Mine was in my personal google calendar so he never saw it until I share it with him. He figured it out fast and to say he was unhappy was an understatement.


I never told my wife. She would have felt even more "hounded" by me. Not worth it. As I said before, it made me feel rather depressed, so I stopped after a while...


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Yeah...I am going to need copies of any journals sent to me so.I can conduct my own "research"! Haha


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Openminded said:


> I remember your story. I thought she was a total brat in all areas and not just about sex. Do you think she changed only because she didn’t want a divorce? In other words, can you really trust such a major change about sex to be real?


Yes, she was a brat. As Mem would put it, she was competitive and non-collaborative, which is the worst combination. 

I think she changed because she wanted to be happy, and happy with me, but had to work through her resentment first. Part of working through her resentment was getting her pound of flesh. 

That said, the way I know what we have is real is the same reason I know we are truly recovered; she fakes nothing. 

Someone can chuckle at that statement when the topic at hand is sex...but what I mean by that is if something pisses her off, she tells me about it, even when what she is pissed off at is trivial or her own fault. She possesses a genuineness that is rare in people. 

That said, I often don't like it. If I am being a **** (which occurs from time to time), she tells me about it. If something is bothering her, even when being catty, she tells me about it. It goes from thought to mouth without filter.

While this has its frustrations at times, it is also very easy to know when she is truly happy, and by extension, truly happy with me. It is also why she could be such a retched ***** when we weren't doing well.

Now, if it turns out I am wrong about that (which I highly doubt), it will eventually surface. If it does, I will be okay, and move on. One other thing that occurred for me in our recovery was a healthy gain in the self-love and self-respect department.

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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Cici1990 said:


> I’d leave my husband if he started keeping spreadsheets, journals, or other record keeping about our sex life. If I didn’t leave him I’d at least stop having sex with him all together and see how he likes that. I find it absolutely obsessive and ridiculous.


Says the woman who had a crying tantrum when one time her husband didn't want to have sex. 

What would YOU do if your husband only wanted to have sex every few weeks and was gaslighting you about how often it was?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Cici1990 said:


> I’d leave my husband if he started keeping spreadsheets, journals, or other record keeping about our sex life.


On the other hand, my wife likes that I keep a sex journal.

She also likes having a complimentary collection of photos, movies, drawings and paintings, that also document our sex life.



badsanta said:


> We learned other things as well, but the point being with keeping a journal is to try and be positive, constructively solve problems, and be patient so that you can learn from keeping a journal.


Not all of us keep sex journals to solve problems, some of us just do it to record some fun.



Numb26 said:


> Yeah...I am going to need copies of any journals sent to me so.I can conduct my own "research"! Haha


I hope the following helps.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I added mine late. The diary app I use to keep track you can star something. So if there is something really good I highlight it with a star.


Sounds like the exact same thing I use. I use an app called Intimassy. It can track just about everything in a sexual encounter. I only use the star rating for exceptional sessions. I keep detailed notes that are often very erotic. I've shared some of the good ones with my wife and it usually results in another entry in the app 😃


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Personal said:


> On the other hand, my wife likes that I keep a sex journal.
> 
> She also likes having a complimentary collection of photos, movies, drawings and paintings, that also document our sex life.
> 
> ...


Your help in my research has been invaluable!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> On the other hand, my wife likes that I keep a sex journal.
> 
> She also likes having a complimentary collection of photos, movies, drawings and paintings, that also document our sex life.
> 
> ...


Wow! I'm amazed!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Wow! I'm amazed!


Longhand too. I am impressed.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> I’d leave my husband if he started keeping spreadsheets, journals, or other record keeping about our sex life. If I didn’t leave him I’d at least stop having sex with him all together and see how he likes that. I find it absolutely obsessive and ridiculous.


Apparently she had long since already stopped having sex. He could have also left her because they were in a sexless marriage.

So their marriage seemed pretty miserable already. At least initially on his end. It appears he stopped being an engaged mate via the rest of the marriage in response so it appears he ended up making it miserable for her as well.

He says it all seemed to turn out ok. Interesting. I cannot relate to not wanting sex. The only way I'd not want sex is if I found her physically unattractive or I resented her....I had offenses I had against her. Otherwise. I'd want sex. So, from a man's perspective....if she won't have sex.....1. she finds husband repulsive or she is pissed at him, is hurt and has a grievance against him that has her heart closed off.
(outside of some hormonal medical issue or she's sleeping with some other guy).

I'm not sure how they went from having no sex to a pretty active sex life. Unless they were in a rut....a routine....bored of life and they went back to the basics....they courted each other, they went on dates, they were more romantic, did new things with each other, prioritized bonding time with each other, tried to win each other's hearts, got in shape and dressed nice for each other, looked their best, put their best foot forward....like when they were first dating.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> I’d leave my husband if he started keeping spreadsheets, journals, or other record keeping about our sex life. If I didn’t leave him I’d at least stop having sex with him all together and see how he likes that. I find it absolutely obsessive and ridiculous.


PS.....what if he had started having sex with another person? A specific person you already didn't like, already felt uneasy about, already had voiced to him you didn't care for him getting too close with or spending time with? What if he was having sex with her in your house? Would you leave him then?

Ring a bell?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> I think if your marriage has gotten to the point where you are making a spreadsheet to show your wife how little sex she gives you, then you might as well attach the spreadsheet to the divorce papers and have her sign them. Your marriage is already pretty much dead.


And to get into individual counseling.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Says the woman who had a crying tantrum when one time her husband didn't want to have sex.
> 
> What would YOU do if your husband only wanted to have sex every few weeks and was gaslighting you about how often it was?


Actually, I threw the tantrum because we discussed possibly not having sex for 3 months until he could get a follow up STD test done, for the safety of my unborn babies. It wasn’t so much a tantrum as a meltdown. It was also a 1 time thing because I was very horny and my pregnancy hormones control me sometimes. 

If my husband only wanted sex every few weeks and was gaslighting me I wouldn’t waste my time or be obsessive enough to sit around tracking it and give him monthly reports. Depending on how long it went on, I’d just find somebody else to sleep with.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

I think in some cases, if your spouse is denying that they are having sex with you as infrequently as you say, it may be worth keeping track just so you can prove them wrong.

But there are people on TAM who aren’t in that situation who still track it, and that’s when it gets weird to me. I’m talking about people who have spouses who are not gaslighting them and who know they aren’t having sex often...how is keeping detailed records and giving your spouse regular reports supposed to help? It’d just make me feel more pressure as the LD spouse. OR people who are actually getting sex regularly at this point and for some reason want to track and rate it like weirdos...if you and your spouse are into that, fine. I find it strange and obsessive, almost sort of creepy. I would be really upset if I found out my husband has a secret sex tracker in a journal or on his phone, even if he gave me 10 gold stars for every performance, that would really weird me out.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> OR people who are actually getting sex regularly at this point and for some reason want to track and rate it like weirdos...


<Jumps up and down waving 🙌🏼 >

BTW I added an entry for this morning... yeaaaa!!!!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

You're saying she's a spoiled brat, but you're the one who's keeping score of all the sex you're entitled to that she's not providing. Just seems to me like that's just as entitled. But I'm not saying you don't have a problem. I think the marriage may be run into the ground if all the focus is on one person not getting sex as much as they want and going about it in such a way that is disrespecting her and only going to make her resent you more. 

I certainly agree that a healthy marriage there should be sex, but I certainly don't agree that a man is entitled to have sex with his wife every time he is in the mood. But if it's degenerated to the point where you just got resentment on both sides and no sex then you don't have much of a marriage left. Running it into the ground as if writing it down will prove anything or change anything is only going to erode the situation more.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

I think the sex tracking reminds me of something a serial killer would do. It’s so weird!


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> <Jumps up and down waving 🙌🏼 >
> 
> BTW I added an entry for this morning... yeaaaa!!!!


Like I’ve said before...I’ve never known of anyone who had such high drive as you. I find your focus on sex very hard to understand. I wish I could be in your body for a day just to understand from your perspective or the perspective of an HD man. I am very curious about the physical and mental side of it.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Cici1990 said:


> Like I’ve said before...I’ve never known of anyone who had such high drive as you. I find your focus on sex very hard to understand. I wish I could be in your body for a day just to understand from your perspective or the perspective of an HD man. I am very curious about the physical and mental side of it.


He isn't the only one LOL


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You're saying she's a spoiled brat, but you're the one who's keeping score of all the sex you're entitled to that she's not providing. Just seems to me like that's just as entitled. But I'm not saying you don't have a problem. I think the marriage may be run into the ground if all the focus is on one person not getting sex as much as they want and going about it in such a way that is disrespecting her and only going to make her resent you more.
> 
> I certainly agree that a healthy marriage there should be sex, but I certainly don't agree that a man is entitled to have sex with his wife every time he is in the mood. But if it's degenerated to the point where you just got resentment on both sides and no sex then you don't have much of a marriage left. Running it into the ground as if writing it down will prove anything or change anything is only going to erode the situation more.


The beauty about lowering the thermostat (slowing/stopping the meeting of all needs for the LD partner) is that it helps reduce (or eliminate) resentment by realizing that NEITHER partner is entitled to the other, which is exactly the opposite of what you are opining in this post.

Some people simply can't wrap their minds around how that can work. 

I am not entitled to her body.

She is not entitled to my mind (venting, listening) nor my labor (acts of service). 

This is normally where things start to run off the rails, and people make accusations of score keeping or making a relationship transactional. In fact, that is the very argument my wife used when I lowered the thermostat. 

My response? She didn't seem to mind no sex, so I wasn't going to mind not meeting her needs at the same time, while simultaneously reducing my resentment level. 

This is, in fact, the polar opposite of entitlement. It is acceptance.



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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> The beauty about lowering the thermostat (slowing/stopping the meeting of all needs for the LD partner) is that it helps reduce (or eliminate) resentment by realizing that NEITHER partner is entitled to the other, which is exactly the opposite of what you are opining in this post.
> 
> Some people simply can't wrap their minds around how that can work.
> 
> ...


Along those lines, did you tell her you were going to stop doing those things for her or just stop doing them? And what did she say when you stopped?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

One other thing, @DownByTheRiver. There was a discussion we had one night about needs, following her losing her temper at me telling her, "I don't feel like it ." 

I asked her what was most important for me to do for her in our marriage. She said that words of encouragement and affirmation were most important. 

I then asked her how happy she would be in the marriage if I hit 100% on acts of service, quality time, and being a lending ear, but never told her she was pretty or amazing, if she would be happy. 

Her eyes got wide and she had no answer.

It did not occur to her that meeting all of the smaller needs of the relationship, but avoiding the big one(s), would still not work. She had no idea.

I say that to say this: it wasn't all about sex. Lots of other good (and not so good) things were occurring.

Lastly, the thing that none of us want to feel in our relationships is replaceable. Yet many of us tend to slack off, go to sleep at the wheel, or just get so busy with life that we no longer prioritize our spouse. It happens. None of us are perfect.

In those moments, we are anything but irreplaceable. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Along those lines, did you tell her you were going to stop doing those things for her or just stop doing them? And what did she say when you stopped?


I told her one time that I was embracing the position of doing only for her what I felt like. Then I started doing it.

Her response was often angry, and she also said several times that everything was about sex.

My response?

"I'm sorry you feel that way." 

She also said she wanted a divorce. 

"Then I will miss you, and probably won't find someone I love as much as you, but I will settle for someone who is willing to make me a priority in their life."

I don't negotiate in emotional terrorism, which is exactly what divorce threats, shaming, gaslighting, and mischaracterization is.

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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> Like I’ve said before...I’ve never known of anyone who had such high drive as you. I find your focus on sex very hard to understand. I wish I could be in your body for a day just to understand from your perspective or the perspective of an HD man. I am very curious about the physical and mental side of it.


I pretty much think about it all the time. I don't have the luxury of getting every time it pops into my head, but I guarantee I would love to. I have to make a conscious effort sometime to focus on something other than sex. Lucky for me all those thoughts are centered on my wife.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I do think it can veer into creepy territory - nobody wants to feel like an athlete being unfairly scored on performance. If it was very detailed that seems excessive. But if it's a frequency tracker, then great. That makes sense to me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

There was a female poster on this site who was active long before I came here.

My memory is fuzzy, and some of the old heads here can probably remember better, but she was borderline LD. 

For a medical reason, she had to have testosterone therapy for a short period...90 days IIRC.

During that time, she could not have enough sex, to the point where her husband could not keep up any longer.

The beauty part about it was that she now understood the effects of testosterone on the body, and why it gives many males such a high drive.

Don't get me wrong. Being LD is not a female-only problem, as we have seen many, many sex-starved ladies come to this site as well. That said, I would be incredibly curious as to the testosterone levels of their LD husbands. 

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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

joannacroc said:


> I do think it can veer into creepy territory - nobody wants to feel like an athlete being unfairly scored on performance. If it was very detailed that seems excessive. But if it's a frequency tracker, then great. That makes sense to me.


Yes, mainly for frequency, but I do note who had an orgasm. Not for my sake but for hers. Nowadays, unlike me, she has difficulty cumming and is not a fan of self care.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> There was a female poster on this site who was active long before I came here.


I miss her.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

CharlieParker said:


> I miss her.


Who was it?

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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Who was it?


SimplyAmorous


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

CharlieParker said:


> Yes, mainly for frequency, but I do note who had an orgasm. Not for my sake but for hers. Nowadays, unlike me, she has difficulty cumming and is not a fan of self care.


I still don’t understand why this means you need to track when she had an orgasm.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

CharlieParker said:


> SimplyAmorous


****, how could I not remember it was SA? 

Yeah, I miss her, too.

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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cici1990 said:


> Like I’ve said before...I’ve never known of anyone who had such high drive as you. I find your focus on sex very hard to understand. I wish I could be in your body for a day just to understand from your perspective or the perspective of an HD man. I am very curious about the physical and mental side of it.


I would take everything you read on TAM - especially the SIM section - with a pinch of salt...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> The beauty about lowering the thermostat (slowing/stopping the meeting of all needs for the LD partner) is that it helps reduce (or eliminate) resentment by realizing that NEITHER partner is entitled to the other, which is exactly the opposite of what you are opining in this post.
> 
> Some people simply can't wrap their minds around how that can work.
> 
> ...


It's passive aggressiveness but I'm not saying I blame you for doing it. I just think your marriage has degenerated to this point so you're not doing something right both of you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> One other thing, @DownByTheRiver. There was a discussion we had one night about needs, following her losing her temper at me telling her, "I don't feel like it ."
> 
> I asked her what was most important for me to do for her in our marriage. She said that words of encouragement and affirmation were most important.
> 
> ...


Negotiating isn't going to make you end up with a good sex life. Maybe she'll understand more how your brain works about the subject, but that doesn't mean she'll like it and it certainly won't change her drive toward you. All this pressure you're putting on her is going to have a negative effect but I think it may be time to throw in the towel if six is the most key element for you to stay in the relationship.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's passive aggressiveness but I'm not saying I blame you for doing it. I just think your marriage has degenerated to this point so you're not doing something right both of you.


It can be both manipulative and passive aggressive, based on intention and execution.

If my intention is to do this in an effort to only get more sex, it is manipulation.

If I do not tell her what I am doing, it is passive-aggressive.

If I do tell her what I am doing, there is nothing passive about it.

Lastly, if I am doing so because I am tired of investing in someone who is unwilling to reciprocate, it is loving myself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable. 

Intention and execution matter. 

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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Cici1990 said:


> Depending on how long it went on, I’d just find somebody else to sleep with.


Wait, didn’t you already do this?


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> Wait, didn’t you already do this?


Yeah, but it wasn’t because my husband wasn’t having sex with me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Negotiating isn't going to make you end up with a good sex life. Maybe she'll understand more how your brain works about the subject, but that doesn't mean she'll like it and it certainly won't change her drive toward you. All this pressure you're putting on her is going to have a negative effect but I think it may be time to throw in the towel if six is the most key element for you to stay in the relationship.


Are you reading what I am writing? I ask that because it seems you keep trying to find a way to classify what I did as anything but what I actually did.

RE: negotiating. In that conversation, I was neither asking nor offering anything, both of which are required for negotiating. I learned that lesson soon after arriving at this site. 

RE: sex being the most 'key element" to stay in a relationship. I did not say that, either. It is the most important need from my spouse. She would not be my spouse to begin with if she did not possess honesty, fidelity, and have compatibility, among several other things. All are crucial. That said, all of that could be in place, but without sex, it is no longer a marriage.

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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I keep a journal of our sexual activity. My wife is fully aware of the fact that I do this and she can access it anytime she wants, but I don't regularly review it with her or anything. I am just a data junky, so I like to keep track of things. I think it could be a useful diagnostic tool when things aren't going right. I also like to look for trends before they become a problem.


I did this for awhile ( 3 months ) when I was having ED to track response to various meds and in attempt to isolate causes. Wife knew of and fully supported the journaling, which took with me to doctor appointments.

We both routinely journal health problem symptoms. Have done that forever.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> The beauty about lowering the thermostat (slowing/stopping the meeting of all needs for the LD partner) is that it helps reduce (or eliminate) resentment by realizing that NEITHER partner is entitled to the other, which is exactly the opposite of what you are opining in this post.
> 
> Some people simply can't wrap their minds around how that can work.
> 
> ...






farsidejunky said:


> I told her one time that I was embracing the position of doing only for her what I felt like. Then I started doing it.
> 
> Her response was often angry, and she also said several times that everything was about sex.
> 
> ...


I think this is fascinating. I am in the camp of being horrified if I found out I was being tracked (even though I understand the reasons in this thread for doing it). It feels a bit too much like a caged animal going through experiments in a lab. 

I see your wife mentioned divorce, which to be honest would be my gut reaction as well. Did she never go through with it? How did you end up pulling back from being on that brink? 

Is the type to get angry and make threats? 

I only see it from my own lens...and we dont take the D-word lightly in my marriage. If I said I wanted a divorce the papers would already be in my hands for him to sign. 

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I think this is fascinating. I am in the camp of being horrified if I found out I was being tracked (even though I understand the reasons in this thread for doing it). It feels a bit too much like a caged animal going through experiments in a lab.
> 
> I see your wife mentioned divorce, which to be honest would be my gut reaction as well. Did she never go through with it? How did you end up pulling back from being on that brink?
> 
> ...


Kag:

The wife and I are on our way to Jiu-Jitsu. I will break this down later this afternoon. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

All I know is today it is hot AF. I worked out at 7am it was already 90 and high humidity. I was taking a shower with the Mrs. and she grabbed my junk in the shower. I was quite taken aback by it as I merely intended to take a platonic business like shower with her but alas she seduced me.

CiCi I certainly wasn’t always like this because for a while I was doing other stuff. It’s only when I cut everything else out that I’m like damn it is breeding season ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

It probably doesn’t help that I am lifting weights every day. My wife likes muscles in particular arms and she says to be really specific she likes if you have big deltoids where it transitions to the bicep. So now I do extra bicep curls and make sure to keep up with them.

I don’t log my training or anything like I do with sex because I don’t really have to. I can follow a routine by myself without incident or interruption.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> It can be both manipulative and passive aggressive, based on intention and execution.
> 
> If my intention is to do this in an effort to only get more sex, it is manipulation.
> 
> ...


So if there's nothing passive about it then it's just aggressive and certainly veering into mental abuse territory. Not saying she's blameless but sometimes people just can't be who they were when you first married them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> Are you reading what I am writing? I ask that because it seems you keep trying to find a way to classify what I did as anything but what I actually did.
> 
> RE: negotiating. In that conversation, I was neither asking nor offering anything, both of which are required for negotiating. I learned that lesson soon after arriving at this site.
> 
> ...


Do y'all have kids??


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So if there's nothing passive about it then it's just aggressive and certainly veering into mental abuse territory. Not saying she's blameless but sometimes people just can't be who they were when you first married them.


So maybe need to terminate or renegotiate the contract, as they arent who you originally signed contract with.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I read back and see that you do have children. So I'm just going to point out that housework and taking care of children isn't as you referred to in that earlier post her job. It's both parents' jobs. And that work isn't done for the other parent. It's done for the benefit of the children. 

You having sex with your wife as often as you want isn't for anyone's benefit except yours. 

I'm just pointing out that you're comparing apples to oranges. Your responsibilities to the family and household do not go away because of what's going on sexually between you and your wife. So shirking those duties is only harming your family.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I don't like playing games, but then I'm told this is the reason I am where I am. Fair enough. But some of the stuff I read here is a bit medieval, like I said in a different thread. Really. Caveman stuff. I'm not referring to anybody in this thread. Just a general comment. I guess we have different ideas.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> So maybe need to terminate or renegotiate the contract, as they arent who you originally signed contract with.


The "contract"? WTF?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> The "contract"? WTF?


Yes. Wife n I swore vows to one another with terms and conditions verbally with time limit being one or the other lifespan. A contract. Violation of terms invalidates the contract. Renegotiate or terminate


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I read back and see that you do have children. So I'm just going to point out that housework and taking care of children isn't as you referred to in that earlier post her job. It's both parents' jobs. And that work isn't done for the other parent. It's done for the benefit of the children.
> 
> You having sex with your wife as often as you want isn't for anyone's benefit except yours.
> 
> I'm just pointing out that you're comparing apples to oranges. Your responsibilities to the family and household do not go away because of what's going on sexually between you and your wife. So shirking those duties is only harming your family.


Farside doesn't sound like the type of guy who shirks his responsibility to the family and household. 

However, if only one person is working, yeah, the bulk of the household and child duties do fall more to the person who isn't going to work outside the home. Or do you think someone should work full time, be the breadwinner with the other spouse not working or not working much, and still split all home duties 50/50? 🤔


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> The "contract"? WTF?


Yeah. Having sex on demand has never been part of the marriage vows and I actually looked up the original marriage vows to make sure.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Yes. Wife n I swore vows to one another with terms and conditions verbally with time limit being one or the other lifespan. A contract. Violation of terms invalidates the contract. Renegotiate or terminate


Sounds more like making a deal with a prostitute.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Sounds more like making a deal with a prostitute.


That is uncalled for.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> That is uncalled for.


Is this within forum guidelines. Ignoring you


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I read back and see that you do have children. So I'm just going to point out that housework and taking care of children isn't as you referred to in that earlier post her job. It's both parents' jobs. And that work isn't done for the other parent. It's done for the benefit of the children.
> 
> You having sex with your wife as often as you want isn't for anyone's benefit except yours.
> 
> I'm just pointing out that you're comparing apples to oranges. Your responsibilities to the family and household do not go away because of what's going on sexually between you and your wife. So shirking those duties is only harming your family.


I'll make a deal with you, eg. negotiation. 

If you can quote where I said I was neglecting our son or my share of the housework (edit: to get more sex), I will gracefully apologize and correct it.

Conversely, if you cannot, you apologize and admit that you are using projection to paint the picture for you, versus what I actually said.

Deal?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I don't like playing games, but then I'm told this is the reason I am where I am. Fair enough. But some of the stuff I read here is a bit medieval, like I said in a different thread. Really. Caveman stuff. I'm not referring to anybody in this thread. Just a general comment. I guess we have different ideas.


Yes, it IS caveman stuff.

But it is more, IA. It is self respect.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Farside doesn't sound like the type of guy who shirks his responsibility to the family and household.
> 
> However, if only one person is working, yeah, the bulk of the household and child duties do fall more to the person who isn't going to work outside the home. Or do you think someone should work full time, be the breadwinner with the other spouse not working or not working much, and still split all home duties 50/50?


I'm not. 

Please see my previous challenge to, DBTR two posts previous. 

If I said I shirked my responsibilities to the home or son to get more sex, I'm going to (proverbially) eat my shorts. 

We both work. I do all outside duties. She does most inside duties except laundry and cooking, which I do. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I think this is fascinating. I am in the camp of being horrified if I found out I was being tracked (even though I understand the reasons in this thread for doing it). It feels a bit too much like a caged animal going through experiments in a lab.
> 
> I see your wife mentioned divorce, which to be honest would be my gut reaction as well. Did she never go through with it? How did you end up pulling back from being on that brink?
> 
> ...


Neither of us were terribly emotionally mature when we got married. 

That said, divorce was a threat about 3-4 times per year in our dark times. 

It got thrown out once by me, when I initially put her on notice. 

I knew it was a bluff, and the situation I described was me finally having the stones to call her on it. 

It was the last time she threatened divorce. 

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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> Neither of us were terribly emotionally mature when we got married.
> 
> That said, divorce was a threat about 3-4 times per year in our dark times.
> 
> ...


I guess it was good they were threats that could at least be addressed. Many times there aren't and the divorce blindsides one party.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> I’d leave my husband if he started keeping spreadsheets, journals, or other record keeping about our sex life. If I didn’t leave him I’d at least stop having sex with him all together and see how he likes that. I find it absolutely obsessive and ridiculous.


Why? In this case it was to refute her claims of having it "all the time".


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I would take everything you read on TAM - especially the SIM section - with a pinch of salt...


You know, IA, I find it utterly fascinating that you have largely done what you suggested here to Cici since arriving on TAM over several years, yet your situation is almost entirely unchanged. 

Grain of salt, indeed. 

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I guess it was good they were threats that could at least be addressed. Many times there aren't and the divorce blindsides one party.


That's why simultaneous building of emotional strength is an absolute necessity. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> *At that point, I had tried everything positive. I was already doing house work, spoiling her, doing my share with our son, and had been for years.
> 
> So I simply embraced her position. I only gave the effort I felt like.* I reduced the proverbial thermostat to zero.
> 
> ...


She won't have sex with me whenever I want, I won't feed the dog or help her open a jar so we can have dinner. Really? If there's kids living in that house they're living with so much tension that it's got to be harming them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> That is uncalled for.


Well that's who makes contracts saying they'll have sex with you.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Wow! I'm amazed!


What do you find amazing?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> You know, IA, I find it utterly fascinating that you have largely done what you suggested here to Cici since arriving on TAM over several years, yet your situation is almost entirely unchanged.
> 
> Grain of salt, indeed.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Always getting personal. Thanks.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She won't have sex with me whenever I want, I won't feed the dog or help her open a jar so we can have dinner. Really? If there's kids living in that house they're living with so much tension that it's got to be harming them.


Your fabrication of Far Sides position and points about this topic have been garbage.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Middle of Everything said:


> Your fabrication of Far Sides position and points about this topic have been garbage.


What's garbage is saying I'm fabricating, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What's garbage is saying I'm fabricating.


No, your conflating a wife showing little to no interest in sex and rarely having sex, with him “not getting sex whenever he wants.” 
Those are two very different things and you’re being completely disingenuous in the way your framing OP’s position.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> No, your conflating a wife showing little to no interest in sex and rarely having sex, with him “not getting sex whenever he wants.”
> Those are two very different things and you’re being completely disingenuous in the way your framing OP’s position.


You're entitled to your opinion. He's keeping score and retaliating, for God's sake. If that's not an extreme measure to get what he wants, I don't know what you'd call it. Split hairs if you want to. You're entitled to your opinion.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Crazy thread


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Crazy thread


Least insane thing said in it. 😂


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Least insane thing said in it. 😂


Indeed


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> What do you find amazing?


your wife's beautiful writing?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> your wife's beautiful writing?


That's my handwriting.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> That's my handwriting.


Disappointed 😁


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She won't have sex with me whenever I want, I won't feed the dog or help her open a jar so we can have dinner. Really? If there's kids living in that house they're living with so much tension that it's got to be harming them.


Is this a simultaneous admission / apology per the deal I stated earlier?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You're entitled to your opinion. He's keeping score and retaliating, for God's sake. If that's not an extreme measure to get what he wants, I don't know what you'd call it. Split hairs if you want to. You're entitled to your opinion.


I will say again, if you can show me where I said that I won't do X if she won't have sex with me all the time, I will apologize to you.

Will you do the same if you fail to find the quote?

I'm not okay with your mischaracterization of what was happening.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> I will say again, if you can show me where I said that I won't do X if she won't have sex with me all the time, I will apologize to you.
> 
> Will you do the same if you fail to find the quote?
> 
> ...


I already did that and bolded what you said and then commented on it which you replied to above. 

And you don't need to apologize or anything. I'm just trying to give you some perspective on what you're doing here. She's certainly not going to see it the same way you do.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I already did that.


No, you didn't. In the post you quoted, it said I was already doing house work. Already. As in, it never stopped.

The jar for food? That was a stretch to begin with. What also makes it false is that my wife cooks 3-4 times per year.

So again, another falsehood.

Then you shifted gears to the tension in the house.

That had nothing to do with your initial assertion, nor the deal I offered.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Amazing that one female poster keeps arguing that a woman doesn’t need to have sex with her husband and one male poster who wants sex from his wife, doesn’t get it and lives with it. Crazy thread indeed.

By the way @Livvie, if you are ever in NY, dinner is on me. You’re my new hero


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Always getting personal. Thanks.


IA, this is a fair assessment. After I hit submit, I thought it might have been harsh, and it is.

Please accept my apology, and know that despite the sharp tongue, the motivation behind it comes from a place of wanting better for you.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> IA, this is a fair assessment. After I hit submit, I thought it might have been harsh, and it is.
> 
> Please accept my apology, and know that despite the sharp tongue, the motivation behind it comes from a place of wanting better for you.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


FSJ has shown he's holding out an olive branch. I do hope IA responds in kind.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Least insane thing said in it. 😂


I am enjoying it overall.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Amazing that one female poster keeps arguing that a woman doesn’t need to have sex with her husband and one male poster who wants sex from his wife, doesn’t get it and lives with it. Crazy thread indeed.
> 
> By the way @Livvie, if you are ever in NY, dinner is on me. You’re my new hero


Where in NY? I grew up in upstate NY 🙂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> No, you didn't. In the post you quoted, it said I was already doing house work. Already. As in, it never stopped.
> 
> The jar for food? That was a stretch to begin with. What also makes it false is that my wife cooks 3-4 times per year.
> 
> ...


It said you were reacting by not feeding the dog and not doing things like loosening jar lids for her. In addition you're telling her you'd rather not listen to her. I hope you're not doing that in front of your children. I put in bold the parts that I was referring to. I don't know why you're back pedaling now. It's all right up there in the parts I bolded. Now you're trying to minimize it but you put it there for a reason and the reason was to convince all of us that here is how you manipulate a wife who isn't having sex when you want to. If she won't play, I won't do stuff I used to do. The problem is that stuff you're now digging in your heels about is for benefit of the family. You're basically inferring that sex is her job and if she won't do her job, I am digging in and not doing anything I don't want for the family to get back at her. 

I'm not saying she doesn't have her issues but she's not here and I don't know her and haven't heard her side of it. I'm just telling you your tactics aren't going to suddenly make her feel all warm and lovey toward you. She'll either ignore them or she'll get mad and your marriage will go downhill even further. From what you said about past threats to leave it sounds like she's used to this nonsense.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Where in NY? I grew up in upstate NY 🙂


Long Island


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It said you were reacting by not feeding the dog and not doing things like loosening jar lids for her. In addition you're telling her you'd rather not listen to her. I hope you're not doing that in front of your children. I put in bold the parts that I was referring to. I don't know why you're back pedaling now. It's all right up there in the parts I bolded. Now you're trying to minimize it but you put it there for a reason and the reason was to convince all of us that here is how you manipulate a wife who isn't having sex when you want to. If she won't play, I won't do stuff I used to do. The problem is that stuff you're now digging in your heels about is for benefit of the family. You're basically inferring that sex is her job and if she won't do her job, I am digging in and not doing anything I don't want for the family to get back at her.
> 
> I'm not saying she doesn't have her issues but she's not here and I don't know her and haven't heard her side of it. I'm just telling you your tactics aren't going to suddenly make her feel all warm and lovey toward you. She'll either ignore them or she'll get mad and your marriage will go downhill even further. From what you said about past threats to leave it sounds like she's used to this nonsense.


You need to read more carefully. He never said he wouldn't feed "the dog". He said the animals-- HER animals. There is a back story you apparently don't know.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It said you were reacting by not feeding the dog and not doing things like loosening jar lids for her. In addition you're telling her you'd rather not listen to her. I hope you're not doing that in front of your children. I put in bold the parts that I was referring to. I don't know why you're back pedaling now. It's all right up there in the parts I bolded. Now you're trying to minimize it but you put it there for a reason and the reason was to convince all of us that here is how you manipulate a wife who isn't having sex when you want to. If she won't play, I won't do stuff I used to do. The problem is that stuff you're now digging in your heels about is for benefit of the family. You're basically inferring that sex is her job and if she won't do her job, I am digging in and not doing anything I don't want for the family to get back at her.
> 
> I'm not saying she doesn't have her issues but she's not here and I don't know her and haven't heard her side of it. I'm just telling you your tactics aren't going to suddenly make her feel all warm and lovey toward you. She'll either ignore them or she'll get mad and your marriage will go downhill even further. From what you said about past threats to leave it sounds like she's used to this nonsense.


No backpedaling. You have mischaracterized what I've said multiple times. 

However, I'm glad you brought this up, actually, because there is an important step in discerning things that you specifically do for your spouse versus for the family.

Perhaps this will help prevent taking leaps and liberties with what I am saying, which has been pointed out by more than just me.

First step: list everything you think you do for your spouse; back rubs, squishing spiders, opening jar lids, listening to her about her day, words of affirmation, the entire list.

Initially, one might think this list represents the things that you stop. However, it needs to be filtered.

Next step, take a look at that list again, and in your head, look at the things you would stop doing if your spouse disappeared or passed away.

That's where you identify the things you actually do for her, versus the things you do for family.

The things you do for family do not stop. The things you do for her become optional.

To clarify a point that I think you're stuck on, if a jar needed to be opened for my son by her, I would certainly help. However, if she was looking to have some of her pickled okra, which she enjoys as a snack, it would be optional.

That is how I know you are taking liberties with what I've said, because in order to arrive at your conclusions, you had to assume something was being done. You were unwilling to give me the benefit of the doubt. 

Then when I clarified, you doubled down and accused me of back pedaling.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You're entitled to your opinion. He's keeping score and retaliating, for God's sake. If that's not an extreme measure to get what he wants, I don't know what you'd call it. Split hairs if you want to. You're entitled to your opinion.


I think a point you are missing is that he wasn't doing this to get sex everyday/whenever he wants. He basically wasn't getting anything in spite of already doing a lot around the house. He never said he stopped doing the things he was already doing, he just stopped helping her with anything extra. This seems pretty reasonable to me. Without sex you are basically roommates, so the work gets split and you owe nothing extra to the other roommate. The keeping score thing is necessary in this case. Without any actual data you just have one person saying we never have sex and the other saying we just had sex. You will get no where. Break out the journal and now you have the objective truth.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> No backpedaling. You have mischaracterized what I've said multiple times.
> 
> However, I'm glad you brought this up, actually, because there is an important step in discerning things that you specifically do for your spouse versus for the family.
> 
> ...


What you are doing is petty.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> I am enjoying it overall.


It is like watching a train wreck


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think a point you are missing is that he wasn't doing this to get sex everyday/whenever he wants. He basically wasn't getting anything in spite of already doing a lot around the house. He never said he stopped doing the things he was already doing, he just stopped helping her with anything extra. This seems pretty reasonable to me. Without sex you are basically roommates, so the work gets split and you owe nothing extra to the other roommate. The keeping score thing is necessary in this case. Without any actual data you just have one person saying we never have sex and the other saying we just had sex. You will get no where. Break out the journal and now you have the objective truth.


The problem with that is it rests on the premise that she doesn't know whether she's having sex or not! That's absolutely preposterous. 

It further presumes that she would accept his journal as the gospel truth over her own memory and knowledge, which is also preposterous. 

Pretty sure she knows whether she's having sex or not. Pretty sure his perception of it isn't going to change her perception of it or make her warm and loving toward him. Quite the opposite. And I really hope this nonsense isn't being done in front of the children.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I've only skim-read this thread and there seems to be some heat in it!

Regardless of my personal opinion about tracking sexcapades ...or lack of... what I get from the journey of FSJ (and happy to stand corrected @farsidejunky if I'm off base here) is the documenting was a way for him to 'reality check' the perceptions and growing frustration around their sex life/intimacy.

There was a block with the emotional and physical connection that his wife shared at that time. He was at the point of make or break and without anything to lose at that point, changed the way he interacted with her and with a greater focus on himself in terms of self-respect, and then through his actions indicated the dynamic that had been set was no longer applicable. From that place, no doubt over time and some shared home truths and accountability from both, they are now in a much stronger place together; and as part of this, he is within himself too. I find the nuances to what causes and sways and alters relationship dynamics to be quite intricate - so much so that it's hard to succinctly (for me, at least) to relay the ins and outs of it all - and yet, when you're at the place together when things are expressed in the moment and worked through together, it really can seem quite obvious and reasonable to what is needed.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Neither of us were terribly emotionally mature when we got married.
> 
> That said, divorce was a threat about 3-4 times per year in our dark times.
> 
> ...


So how did the two of you go from threats and this general environment to where you are now? Was there some kind of light bulb moment for her or you? Or was it a more gradual thing?

Because I cannot imagine taking the thermostat down to zero and being able to come back from that. Honestly, I don't think I would. I think I'd just be done. 

(If you already have a thread, let me know and I'll go read it out of curiosity...)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The problem with that is it rests on the premise that she doesn't know whether she's having sex or not! That's absolutely preposterous.
> 
> It further presumes that she would accept his journal as the gospel truth over her own memory and knowledge, which is also preposterous.
> 
> Pretty sure she knows whether she's having sex or not. Pretty sure his perception of it isn't going to change her perception of it or make her warm and loving toward him. Quite the opposite. And I really hope this nonsense isn't being done in front of the children.


She either doesn't accurately remember or she is choosing to remember inaccurately. In either case the journal addresses it

A person's memory, quite frankly, is garbage when it comes to things like this. It is influenced by emotions because sex is very emotionally charged. There was a time in the past where circumstances were such that my wife and I went a few weeks or more without sex. I could have asked her on day 21 and she would have sworn it was "just the other day." I didn't keep a journal then, but I double checked and was able to identify the date. We weren't having marital problems and the reasons for no sex were not due to issues between us, yet she still didn't realize it was that long. Now, throw in some other marital issues and the emotions go even higher and memory gets worse as it is twisted by your emotions. 

Without the journal he would have no leg to stand on. She would just default back to saying it was just the other day and sex is all you think about and he would have nothing to refute it, he said/she said. The journal takes that completely out of the equation.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> She either doesn't accurately remember or she is choosing to remember inaccurately. In either case the journal addresses it
> 
> A person's memory, quite frankly, is garbage when it comes to things like this. It is influenced by emotions because sex is very emotionally charged. There was a time in the past where circumstances were such that my wife and I went a few weeks or more without sex. I could have asked her on day 21 and she would have sworn it was "just the other day." I didn't keep a journal then, but I double checked and was able to identify the date. We weren't having marital problems and the reasons for no sex were not due to issues between us, yet she still didn't realize it was that long. Now, throw in some other marital issues and the emotions go even higher and memory gets worse as it is twisted by your emotions.
> 
> Without the journal he would have no leg to stand on. She would just default back to saying it was just the other day and sex is all you think about and he would have nothing to refute it, he said/she said. The journal takes that completely out of the equation.


He doesn't have a leg to stand on now because journal or no, their sex life is what it is. I've never met anyone who wouldn't know whether they had had sex or not. I just think that's a big pile.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He doesn't have a leg to stand on now because journal or no, their sex life is what it is. I've never met anyone who wouldn't know whether they had had sex or not. I just think that's a big pile.


I could imagine the relationship is really at breaking point, rather than being able to navigate the disconnect in a different way, for this approach... whether I personally agree with it or not, the main thing that I interpret is this was just one aspect to a much broader view of the health of their relationship at that time... which is no longer where they are at together now. As he stated, perhaps not in these words but I'm too lazy to go back to find the quote, his journey is one of rebuilding the relationship together and getting to a much stronger place.

Have you ever documented anything to get a 'reality check'? I've done this at the workplace, whereby I've perceived somebody's actions a certain way that has started getting under my skin. To ensure that it's not just building up in my mind as a dramatization, I have jotted down scenarios to reality check that yeah, this needs to change and it is as frequent as I felt it was. Given that was just a work thing, and not a long-standing investment of my emotions, it was enough to quickly reality check myself and then go about changing the way that I interact towards facilitating different outcomes.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He doesn't have a leg to stand on now because journal or no, their sex life is what it is. I've never met anyone who wouldn't know whether they had had sex or not. I just think that's a big pile.


yes, she probably knew, she just wasn’t being honest about it (gaslighting). The journal allowed him to officially call BS and take her dishonest assertions off the table. Which is necessary to have an honest conversation


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He doesn't have a leg to stand on now because journal or no, their sex life is what it is. I've never met anyone who wouldn't know whether they had had sex or not. I just think that's a big pile.


I think you are wrong on multiple things here. 

The journal and his actions seemed to work. From what I've read they are now having sex much more frequently and the relationship is much better than it was. I'm sure the journal wasn't all of it, but it was part of it. 

Of course she knew whether or not they had sex, the question is how well does she remember when they last had it, or how honest is she about when they last had it. Are you really saying that you can't imagine forgetting the last day you had sex? If you last had sex a week ago, was it Saturday or Sunday? No maybe it was Friday. Do you remember if you had sex 10 times last month? Or was it 5? As the time gets longer and the frequency drops it gets harder to remember, especially if it works in your favor to not remember.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

There's no reason why she should believe his documentation over her own knowledge. He's not exactly objective to begin with. Pretty sure she has an operative brain. Pretty sure she knows whether she wants to have sex or not too. I feel he's being very condescending to her and his actions are only going to drive a bigger wedge. But if some of you think this is the way to handle your household, good luck with that.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Without referring to Instagram I can't remember what I had for dinner last night. YMMV.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There's no reason why she should believe his documentation over her own knowledge. He's not exactly objective to begin with. Pretty sure she has an operative brain. Pretty sure she knows whether she wants to have sex or not too. I feel he's being very condescending to her and his actions are only going to drive a bigger wedge. But if some of you think this is the way to handle your household, good luck with that.


As I mentioned, regardless of my personal view of this approach, they are in a healthier place together now. How they changed their dynamic to get to that stronger place did the opposite to driving a bigger wedge between them. The opening post is not where they are at now. And I think that is really important to acknowledge.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Livvie said:


> You need to read more carefully. He never said he wouldn't feed "the dog". He said the animals-- HER animals. There is a back story you apparently don't know.


Yes, indeed.

All those horses she hoarded and expected his help with.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

heartsbeating said:


> As I mentioned, regardless of my personal view of this approach, they are in a healthier place together now. How they changed their dynamic to get to that stronger place did the opposite to driving a bigger wedge between them. The opening post is not where they are at now. And I think that is really important to acknowledge.


So this thread was started yesterday. And there is literally nothing healthy sounding about how he describes what's going on. So I don't know where you're getting what you just said but I don't see it. I am going only by this thread he started yesterday. And their marriage is not going well as of then. And we have no inkling where she's really at about any of it. We're only hearing one side and in that one side I'm seeing a lot of obsession and aggression by him which surely could contribute to some of the dysfunction, though I have no doubt it's coming from both sides..


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

@farsidejunky — As I said, I remember your story well. I was one of the posters who felt you should dump her because her issues went way beyond always wanting her way about sex. She felt entitled to everything while giving little in return. I thought you, and your son, deserved much better. However, I‘m happy to be wrong if she really has changed and is the wife you wanted her to be. I wish you the best.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So this thread was started yesterday. And there is literally nothing healthy sounding about how he describes what's going on. So I don't know where you're getting what you just said but I don't see it. I am going only by this thread he started yesterday. And their marriage is not going well as of then. And we have no inkling where she's really at about any of it. We're only hearing one side and in that one side I'm seeing a lot of obsession and aggression by him which surely could contribute to some of the dysfunction, though I have no doubt it's coming from both sides..


Their issues were years ago. Apparently, things have changed for the better since then.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Openminded said:


> Their issues were years ago. Apparently, things have changed for the better since then.


Going by this thread that he started yesterday, they are still having plenty of issues.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So this thread was started yesterday. And there is literally nothing healthy sounding about how he describes what's going on. So I don't know where you're getting what you just said but I don't see it. I am going only by this thread he started yesterday. And their marriage is not going well as of then. And we have no inkling where she's really at about any of it. We're only hearing one side and in that one side I'm seeing a lot of obsession and aggression by him which surely could contribute to some of the dysfunction, though I have no doubt it's coming from both sides..


It's fair enough that you may not have insight to their full journey. He did make mention they're in a stronger place now. My advantage of the views and respect that I have towards @farsidejunky is years in the making of posting here. I never could find the exit door, just a revolving door that I'd exit and end up back here again. Over the years, I have an awareness of some of his and his wife's journey, and to go from breaking point to where they are now means that consciously different actions and ways of interacting with one another have occurred. And I can wholly get behind people that experience personal growth. Albeit, 'growth' does not necessarily equate to staying in a relationship; I think growth can happen either way. 

It's much easier (seemingly yet falsely from my perspective) to remain unchallenged and stay in a default way of being. When one breaks their own mold to uncover different sides of themselves that is more, well, congruent, that is something that I can't help but respect. That is where my view is coming from.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Going by this thread that he started yesterday, they are still having plenty of issues.


No, I don’t think that’s the case now.

ETA: He’s probably one of the very few TAM success stories.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

All my answers are based on this thread and only this thread. I don't see how they could be based on anything else. So we will just have to agree to disagree.

If you think being in a place where he won't open a jar for her is a better place I'll take your word for it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Going by this thread that he started yesterday, they are still having plenty of issues.


Further proving you haven't really been paying attention to what I have posted.

Post #7 was very clear. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Openminded said:


> @farsidejunky — As I said, I remember your story well. I was one of the posters who felt you should dump her because her issues went way beyond always wanting her way about sex. She felt entitled to everything while giving little in return. I thought you, and your son, deserved much better. However, I‘m happy to be wrong if she really has changed and is the wife you wanted her to be. I wish you the best.


She has, and I thank you both for your contributions then and well wishes now.

Life is good. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> Further proving you haven't really been paying attention to what I have posted.
> 
> Post #7 was very clear.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I have no problem with reading comprehension.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I have no problem with reading comprehension.


You’re having some kind of issues because you’ve been completely off the ****ing rails lately. Maybe you’ve always been this way, but I never noticed it before so I assume it’s new.

Genuine question: is something going on in your world?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> You’re having some kind of issues because you’ve been completely off the ****ing rails lately. Maybe you’ve always been this way, but I never noticed it before so I assume it’s new.
> 
> Genuine question: is something going on in your world?


As if, Dude. Would that be yet another personal attack?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> As if, Dude. Would that be yet another personal attack?


It’s a serious observation and a sincere question. If I was attacking you, you’d know it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Riiiight.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I think it all comes down to something we've talked about here before, and that is the fact there is really no such thing as unconditional love. We have contracts and sex journals and if our wants aren't being met, we start looking for the exit. To me, it all seems rather transactional and kinda sad. I hope there aren't many idealistic young people reading any of this stuff.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

DudeInProgress said:


> It’s a serious observation and a sincere question. If I was attacking you, you’d know it.


Yes, people would know it because you would be banned. Cut it out.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> IA, this is a fair assessment. After I hit submit, I thought it might have been harsh, and it is.
> 
> Please accept my apology, and know that despite the sharp tongue, the motivation behind it comes from a place of wanting better for you.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I did say I wasn't referring to anybody in particular on this thread. Just a general comment. I just don't like games. Maybe I went a bit over the top too. Apology accepted and I'm sorry if you felt offended too. The comment wasn't directed to you. I know you've always tried to help me and you have.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> FSJ has shown he's holding out an olive branch. I do hope IA responds in kind.


See above.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What's garbage is saying I'm fabricating, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.


The examples given by Farside are from 2014 when he first arrived and started an infamous thread asking about **** tests (at the time we could say the vulgar word for crap without it being edited out).

With a lot of help from some members, he was able to turn his marriage around and is now enjoying the fruits of both his and his wife's labor to improve the marriage.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So if there's nothing passive about it then it's just aggressive and certainly veering into mental abuse territory. Not saying she's blameless but sometimes people just can't be who they were when you first married them.


Sometimes people who are mentally abusing others do not Get It until they feel it in return. She finally Got It


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I gotta say that I have nothing against being petty if it is used as a release valve on a pressure cooker. Sometimes petty is just the ticket to get the ball rolling.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

My first thought about sex journals was that it was a strange concept. But then I thought about it and realized it made a lot of sense. I mean, people trying to lose weight are encouraged to keep food journals because it exposes patterns and behaviors you may not be aware of.

So why wouldn't it work the same way here? The key is that you can't use it to bean count....it must be used to gain insight into things you can change. It's clear that you did this and I'm so happy you guys are doing well!

I too am a big believer in not putting in a lot more effort then your partner. It creates a power imbalance where you feel taken for granted and your partner can be lazy.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> My first thought about sex journals was that it was a strange concept. But then I thought about it and realized it made a lot of sense. I mean, people trying to lose weight are encouraged to keep food journals because it exposes patterns and behaviors you may not be aware of.
> 
> So why wouldn't it work the same way here? The key is that you can't use it to bean count....it must be used to gain insight into things you can change. It's clear that you did this and I'm so happy you guys are doing well!
> 
> I too am a big believer in not putting in a lot more effort then your partner. It creates a power imbalance where you feel taken for granted and your partner can be lazy.


That is exactly my thought about a sex journal. To me, anything worth doing is worth doing right and data is needed to know how you are doing. I don't understand why sex would excluded from this idea.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I have no problem with reading comprehension.


I'm really not so sure about that. He specifically said _"We are now in a healthy, happy, laugh-filled, sexual relationship, with experimentation and a large menu of bedroom activities." _on the first page. 

I also asked if was still with his wife and he responded by saying _"Happily, no less"_

You made the very next post after his answer and it is a negative reaction that seemed to completely ignore his previous comments about it being all good. 


You seem to not be remembering what happened just one day ago. Maybe this calls for keeping a journal to jog your memory


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

I personally track just to see and if you ever have a discussion involving “always” or “all the time”. You have the data. My partner would take it personally as another “it’s never good enough” thing.

WRT the thermostat lowering and the arguments here, it seems like sex seems to be the only thing in a relationship one partner can unilaterally stop or lower their thermostat and it has to be respected and doesn’t effect the relationship. Fair enough, we’re sentient beings. However, if you lower the thermostat on other stuff it’s a seen as spiteful or vindictive. It’s like a double standard… “I can reduce or eliminate how you feel loved because I feel like it but how dare you stop speaking my love languages.” I’m not saying have sex because you have to but you have to at least acknowledge the double-standard. 

Also you can make the argument about how sex just does naturally goes down but one could make everyone’s standard of living goes down too as they get older in terms of saving up for a retirement, medical bills, reliant in their kids.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> However, *if you lower the thermostat on other stuff it’s a seen as spiteful or vindictive.* It’s like a double standard… “I can reduce or eliminate how you feel loved because I feel like it but how dare you stop speaking my love languages.” I’m not saying have sex because you have to but you have to at least acknowledge the double-standard.


I wasn't going to say, because I didn't want to hijack, but since you mentioned it...😬

I do use this in other relationships - for both family members and friends. And I couldn't care less if it's viewed as spiteful or vindictive.

By the time I've reached this point, I've communicated _very_ clearly and gotten either silence or hostility.

As @farsidejunky said, it eliminates the resentment. And often, people simply won't do their part unless they're required to. And if people refuse to engage in a reciprocal relationship, then at least it's out in the open, and one can let go and move on.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> My first thought about sex journals was that it was a strange concept. But then I thought about it and realized it made a lot of sense. I mean, people trying to lose weight are encouraged to keep food journals because it exposes patterns and behaviors you may not be aware of.
> 
> So why wouldn't it work the same way here? The key is that you can't use it to bean count....it must be used to gain insight into things you can change. It's clear that you did this and I'm so happy you guys are doing well!


I agree with that sentiment...

My wife initially kept a journal on our sex life, mostly to make notes about when something positive happened. Today she no longer journals (that I am aware of), but we have gotten really big into our fitness watches. These things keep ongoing records on resting heart rates, sleep, oxygen levels, stress, weight (from a synchronized scale), and obviously steps. It wasn't until I begin observing all this data over a long period of time that I began to learn a lot about my body and how my daily life impacts diet. 

Ultimately for me it is all about stress, and I have a strong tendency to want sex as a means to help control stress. I always get the best night sleep after sex. And now I can see my sleep score skyrocket the night after sex. Meanwhile my wife's sleep does the opposite. She tends to be energized and unable to sleep after sex, which adds a lot of stress and creates a domino effect of things that make her not feel good the next day.

This type of stuff has been a huge eye opener for us and how sex interacts with all of our other health indications. It has created a lot of constructive opportunities for us to understand each other's dynamics and make meaningful improvements to our sex life and overall quality of life. 

The one big thing I have come to realize after seeing our health data, is to be aware of my tendency to use sex for reducing stress. I have now shifted to exercise and eating noninflammatory foods (avoiding sugars, flour, and fried foods) as a way to help my body reduce stress (which is amazing by the way). I now initiate sex from a place of feeling relaxed and calm, which as a result tends to now help my wife feel more relaxed and calm afterwards as well. 

So keeping journals on overall health and how that impacts the quality of sexual intimacy can be extremely helpful and eye opening. Also as a couple you are not really going to argue over the data collected by a fitness watch, because it is just data that will show you exactly what your body s doing regardless if you want to be aware of something or not.

My wife and I no longer have sex in the evenings. We now how sex mid day as this energizes my wife, and I enjoy feeling relaxed and still get a great night's sleep regardless of what time of day I have sex. My wife and I enjoy looking at each other fitness data to compare notes and work together as a team towards helping one another feel good about ourselves and our marriage.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

badsanta said:


> Ultimately for me it is all about stress, and I have a strong tendency to want sex as a means to help control stress. I always get the best night sleep after sex. And now I can see my sleep score skyrocket the night after sex. Meanwhile my wife's sleep does the opposite. She tends to be energized and unable to sleep after sex, which adds a lot of stress and creates a domino effect of things that make her not feel good the next day.


This is also the case for us. I am out like a light within 5 minutes and I don’t wake up during the night.

My wife gets energy from it as you describe. So if she says “I’m tired.” I will not try to initiate. 

Yesterday she came to bed in only her panties which is a sure fire DTF signal and then she says “I’m tired.” So I just asked her hey are you tired like you really want to sleep or you’re tired but ready for pound town? She was ready for pound town so that’s what she got.

I respect the “I’m tired.” though. I find not initiating into guaranteed failure or even let’s say she says FFS ok it will get rid of him and then she stays up until 2am, counterproductive. Way better to not initiate at all and respect what she is saying.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I had an old GF that kept a log of sexual activity of sorts although perhaps not an actual journal.

One day she was writing out a check for something (back when people had checkbooks before ATM cards) and I noticed in the calendar she had a series of Xs and Os.

I asked what they were and she said she marked the days she was on her period with Os and the days we had sex with Xs.

I that that was kind of odd but whatever.

Then one day we were at a store and she was writing out another check and I noticed she had a lot more Xs than what I remember being present for 😮 😡


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The problem with that is it rests on the premise that she doesn't know whether she's having sex or not! That's absolutely preposterous.
> 
> It further presumes that she would accept his journal as the gospel truth over her own memory and knowledge, which is also preposterous.
> 
> Pretty sure she knows whether she's having sex or not. Pretty sure his perception of it isn't going to change her perception of it or make her warm and loving toward him. Quite the opposite. And I really hope this nonsense isn't being done in front of the children.


1st 2 paragraphs are BS. My wife had no idea years ago that we were not intimate very often. She was so wrapped up in other nonsensical things she could not remember if it was 2 days ago or 2 weeks ago.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I had an old GF that kept a log of sexual activity of sorts although perhaps not an actual journal.
> 
> One day she was writing out a check for something (back when people had checkbooks before ATM cards) and I noticed in the calendar she had a series of Xs and Os.
> 
> ...


Possibilities?....

Xs for others

Xs because she thought it had been more recent a tgought she had forgot to put an X so she errantly added Xs for when she thought yall had.

She used her energizer friend while fantasizing about someone and later thought she had sex and forgot to write it down.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> I gotta say that I have nothing against being petty if it is used as a release valve on a pressure cooker. Sometimes petty is just the ticket to get the ball rolling.


Right.... One could say it is also petty to with hold sex because a spouse is mad at the other. But they will defend that but not doing other things for the other spouse.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> Right.... One could say it is also petty to with hold sex because a spouse is mad at the other. But they will defend that but not doing other things for the other spouse.


Withholding sex is a sign of a major issue, IMO. Not sure how being "petty" towards your spouse can solve deeply rooted issues? I guess we get back to lowering the thermostat question.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Withholding sex is a sign of a major issue, IMO. Not sure how being "petty" towards your spouse can solve deeply rooted issues? I guess we get back to lowering the thermostat question.


I could argue that no longer doing things for your spouse is also a sign of a deeply rooter issue in a marriage. It is just the sex thing is the most noted in history if a wife is mad. Its their right to, but it is wrong for hubby to do anything.....it is a double standard.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> I could argue that no longer doing things for your spouse is also a sign of a deeply rooter issue in a marriage. It is just the sex thing is the most noted in history if a wife is mad. Its their right to, but it is wrong for hubby to do anything.....it is a double standard.


I'm not saying you shouldn't do anything, but stopping making a cup of tea for your wife - pick whatever you do for you wife - is not going to solve your deeply rooted issue, is it?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not saying you shouldn't do anything, but stopping making a cup of tea for your wife - pick whatever you do for you wife - is not going to solve your deeply rooted issue, is it?


No, but it will lessen your resentment over being taken for granted and treated like a servant. Until both people come to the table, nothing is going to solve the deeply rooted issue. The wife may not like no longer being treated like an entitled princess and is now feeling the effect of her dismissal of her partner's desires/needs/wants.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> No, but it will lessen your resentment over being taken for granted and treated like a servant. Until both people come to the table, nothing is going to solve the deeply rooted issue. The wife may not like no longer being treated like an entitled princess and is now feeling the effect of her dismissal of her partner's desires/needs/wants.


Okay, but lets ease up on the idea of stopping cups of tea  ...that's just uncalled for..!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> No, but it will lessen your resentment over being taken for granted and treated like a servant. Until both people come to the table, nothing is going to solve the deeply rooted issue. The wife may not like no longer being treated like an entitled princess and is now feeling the effect of her dismissal of her partner's desires/needs/wants.


It never lessened my resentment. On the contrary. I still think it's pointless and, if this approach works, the issue wasn't deep-rooted.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> It never lessened my resentment. On the contrary. I still think it's pointless and, if this approach works, the issue wasn't deep-rooted.


Not everyone has a mentally ill partner. Some have partners who are so self-centered that they can't see how dismissing their partner is affecting their relationship. They need to be educated in reciprocity. It's the age old question of "Do you love me or do you love what I do for you?".


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Not everyone has a mentally ill partner. Some have partners who are so self-centered that they can't see how dismissing their partner is affecting their relationship. They need to be educated in reciprocity. It's the age old question of "Do you love me or do you love what I do for you?".


Fair enough. I guess I have a slightly skewed vision of this aspect. It's been a real challenge.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> It never lessened my resentment. On the contrary. I still think it's pointless and, if this approach works, the issue wasn't deep-rooted.


Are you ever leaving her?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> Are you ever leaving her?


Lol... we are not together anymore. We are in two different houses (next to each other). I'm not looking for another relationship, I've had enough. Planning to spend lots of time in my own country, when I don't have to get tested here, then spend 10 days in isolation and get tested again. Hopefully, it's only matter of days. The EU is looking into accept our NHS app where you can show the double vaccination.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> This is also the case for us. I am out like a light within 5 minutes and I don’t wake up during the night.
> 
> My wife gets energy from it as you describe. So if she says “I’m tired.” I will not try to initiate.


Regarding the OP talking about journals and gaslighting, imagine seeing your spouse's sleep patterns from a fitness watch and relating it to sex. 

To be honest I have noticed that my wife has trouble sleeping some nights unrelated to sexual activity, but I can say without a doubt that having good sex does not help her sleep as it does for me. I think most of her sleep issues are stress related and if I am stressed out and try to use sex to sooth myself, the end result is that I am sharing that stress by asking her to bond with me during that moment (which does not help her stress levels in my opinion). 

I was watching a TV show the other day and the female characters talked about men and sex. They described men as using a woman's vagina as a place to dump and store all their negative emotions to help themselves feel better. Perhaps there is some truth about that because there are some books/blogs/articles that always seem to talk about how having a good sex life is good for a man's health in that it lowers his blood pressure and is a "place of healing." 

On the other hand Schnarch talks a lot in his book about the idea of hugging someone. And what it really means to hug someone while taking note that almost everyone hugs superficially. He talks about this notion of hugging someone until you become complete relaxed, and how most people never learn to do that. Most become increasingly uncomfortable and can't sustain a hug. The reason is because you are allowing yourself to be close to someone and if that person is stressed then you are going to feel that when you hug them. The longer you hug, the more stress you will feel and the more uncomfortable that the hug will become. The hug is unsustainable. THAT for many is what sex feels like. It can be uncomfortable to try and bond emotionally with someone under a lot of stress. 

So if people keep journals, they should also keep notes about stress and how they are feeling when they want to initiate sex. If you notice a pattern of craving sex after a stressful day, one needs to be mindful about that as doing so can transfer that stress onto a partner. Ideally one should self sooth and cope with their stress in different ways before sex. 

For me if I am having a tough day, my wife and I use back rubs to help each other sooth stress and that always feels good for us to do that for one another. Sometimes afterwards the urge for me to want sex subsides as after a good back rub I am calm and not needing sex to sooth my stress.

It is however important to note that good sex tends to thrive on some stress. But some stress can be good stress as in being creative and trying something new, fun or different. It is not until you are completely calm that one can clearly differentiate between good stress and bad stress. 

The OP perhaps uses the notion of journalling to document the idea of being taken for granted. THAT is a form of stress. And if as a result he desires sex, that is going to likely pass along a lot of that stress to a partner. One has to resolve that type of stress outside the context of sex first and then work towards creating some fun and playful stress that will make sex mutually enjoyable (in my opinion). Journaling and seeing that pattern is going to be really helpful. 

Shifting gears to a completely different topic would be journaling to determine a quota and a frequency that needs to be maintained. There is such a thing as "maintenance sex" which is a base level of sex that helps to avoid frustration and a build up of hormones. This however can be done while paying close attention to stress and also keeping a journal about how both partners interact with each other's stress. Sometimes a couple may need to push themselves to maintain a frequency when it is not desirable for one or the other in order to learn from that. One person not desiring sex may find something unexpectedly nice about it (responsive desire), and this creates a learning opportunity to try and understand why that happens.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

badsanta said:


> On the other hand Schnarch talks a lot in his book about the idea of hugging someone.


Overall I found that book terrible to read. Of course I immediately tried it with my wife and sure enough she was always pulling away first. That isn’t the case anymore.

When my wife is stressed or has anxiety she will not want PIV. Such was the case yesterday. She offered to give me a BJ and I told her if she was really stressed to just go and deal with her work or whatever it was and no worries. She said she wouldn’t mind doing it so I really pushed myself and accepted her offer. Then I passed out 5 minutes later


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Overall I found that book terrible to read. Of course I immediately tried it with my wife and sure enough she was always pulling away first. That isn’t the case anymore.
> 
> When my wife is stressed or has anxiety she will not want PIV. Such was the case yesterday. She offered to give me a BJ and I told her if she was really stressed to just go and deal with her work or whatever it was and no worries. She said she wouldn’t mind doing it so I really pushed myself and accepted her offer. Then I passed out 5 minutes later


I think its pretty cool she at least offers you a bj at times like that.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> 1st 2 paragraphs are BS. My wife had no idea years ago that we were not intimate very often. She was so wrapped up in other nonsensical things she could not remember if it was 2 days ago or 2 weeks ago.


Liked and replying to agree. Same happened to me. Don't believe it was being vindictive or spiteful. Just wasnt a big deal or priority to her at the time. Easy to lose track of things that arent a big deal to you.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think its pretty cool she at least offers you a bj at times like that.


She knew he would be bothering her later otherwise...


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> No, but it will lessen your resentment over being taken for granted and treated like a servant. Until both people come to the table, nothing is going to solve the deeply rooted issue. The wife may not like no longer being treated like an entitled princess and is now feeling the effect of her dismissal of her partner's desires/needs/wants.





minimalME said:


> I wasn't going to say, because I didn't want to hijack, but since you mentioned it...😬
> 
> I do use this in other relationships - for both family members and friends. And I couldn't care less if it's viewed as spiteful or vindictive.
> 
> ...


This


Blondilocks said:


> No, but it will lessen your resentment over being taken for granted and treated like a servant. Until both people come to the table, nothing is going to solve the deeply rooted issue. The wife may not like no longer being treated like an entitled princess and is now feeling the effect of her dismissal of her partner's desires/needs/wants.


And this.

Marriage is obviously more complicated than most relationships, but most wouldnt stand being used and taken advantage of in other relationships. So why not "dial back the thermostat" in all relationships when you can?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> She knew he would be bothering her later otherwise...


Well of course but not the same day😈


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> On the contrary. I still think it's pointless and, if this approach works, the issue wasn't deep-rooted.


Perhaps for you.

I would argue that my situation checked both boxes. 



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> Overall I found that book terrible to read. Of course I immediately tried it with my wife and sure enough she was always pulling away first. That isn’t the case anymore.
> 
> When my wife is stressed or has anxiety she will not want PIV. Such was the case yesterday. She offered to give me a BJ and I told her if she was really stressed to just go and deal with her work or whatever it was and no worries. She said she wouldn’t mind doing it so I really pushed myself and accepted her offer. Then I passed out 5 minutes later


This is my opinion is a scenario where the male would accept but then get worried/concerned about a wife being unable to get aroused. This in turn would then serve to only add more stress to the wife not in the mood because the husband may want to see her orgasm to validate himself as being desirable and wanted in the marriage. Completely overlooking that she was willing to please and help him relax even if she was not in the mood herself. 

Once again, journaling these things or at least making a mental note so that you can communicate about it at some point is helpful.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

badsanta said:


> This is my opinion is a scenario where the male would accept but then get worried/concerned about a wife being unable to get aroused. This in turn would then serve to only add more stress to the wife not in the mood because the husband may want to see her orgasm to validate himself as being desirable and wanted in the marriage. Completely overlooking that she was willing to please and help him relax even if she was not in the mood herself.


Yes. If I read my journal from a year ago if she didn’t want the D I was thinking “she doesn’t want me”.

In reality she just didn’t want to expend the energy for an elaborate sex session.

So now I can say well is it that you’re really just stressed period and you should go work instead of even doing anything? Sometimes she just wants a hug and maybe a back rub and then go back to work until 2am. I know she has all of these possibilities so I can just ask where she is at that evening.

Yesterday she was happy to give me a BJ and get back to business and I have to admit I accepted it willingly.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Well of course but not the same day😈


@In Absentia 

Of course, and that's to be expected. But she imho wouldn't be calling it a bother. Sex isn't a bother at all in many marriages.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Hey, I'll concede that if the sex is that forgettable, she might choose to forget she had it.


WTF Really! Insults!

No quite. She thinks i am a sexual god now. Says that i have taken her places she never knew existed. I give her 5 to my 1.

She was just so wrapped up in trying to be the perfect mom she would place everthing else on the back burner. She would overextend herself. One of those people who tries to do everything so everyone is happy to the detriment of herself(and me). Finally broke that. She would feel guilty for spending money on herself and always trying to get stuff for me and kids. If we went anywhere she would feel guilty because kids could not go, feel like she is inconveniencing someone to watch kids while we went somewhere.

She came from abusive home where she was the mother figure to her little brothers while her POS mom kept going back to her cheating psycho dad. Mom has false teath courtesy of her dad knocking out moms teeth. But she kept going back. Until he ate a shotgun barrel. 

Wife has a scar on upper lip and matching crooked tooth courtesy of her dad. This was after he quit beating on mom and went after little brother at which point she interceeded for her brother.

So no it was not forgetable, she was dealing with childhood issues that followed her that had to be resolved. It is difficult to change habbits when all your childhood, you have been told you are a failure and worthless. Even though she was strait A student. MVP on HS softball team, was mom/protecter to her little brothers. 

So NO it is NOT!...ALWAYS the husbands fault when there are issues in a marriage. As hard as it is for you to comprehend, sometimes the man wears the cape and has the scars to match to go along with rescuing the woman he fell in love with.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> As hard as it is for you to comprehend, sometimes the man wears the cape and has the *scars to match to go along with rescuing the woman he fell in love with*.


This is where I think you went wrong. No more rescue projects for me. If I want a rescue, I'll go to the animal shelter.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Hey, I'll concede that if the sex is that forgettable, she might choose to forget she had it.


That is over the top insulting. 

I am amazed that you think it is impossible to believe someone would be unclear when they last had sex. Especially if they aren't really interested in sex it is just put straight out of mind. I fell behind about a week on the journal while on vacation and I had a hard time remembering every instance we had sex. Not that it was bad or anything, just blended together after a while. Have you never thought, when was the last time we ate at this restaurant? Thinking it was just a week or two ago and it turns out to be two months ago. The human memory is terrible, especially when it is influenced by stress, anxiety and other things that can make a marriage and sex life difficult.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> This is where I think you went wrong. No more rescue projects for me. If I want a rescue, I'll go to the animal shelter.


She makes me forget about them now. She takes real good care of her Big Daddy. 😋


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is over the top insulting.
> 
> I am amazed that you think it is impossible to believe someone would be unclear when they last had sex. Especially if they aren't really interested in sex it is just put straight out of mind. I fell behind about a week on the journal while on vacation and I had a hard time remembering every instance we had sex. Not that it was bad or anything, just blended together after a while. Have you never thought, when was the last time we ate at this restaurant? Thinking it was just a week or two ago and it turns out to be two months ago. The human memory is terrible, especially when it is influenced by stress, anxiety and other things that can make a marriage and sex life difficult.


 Typical... All men are incompetent fools and everything is their fault....didn't you know that already?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

A lot of this thread is full of unhelpful distractions. Sigh. Such is TAM.

I grow very tired of people trying to categorically deny via “logic” that there could be something useful to be gleaned from reports of successful turnarounds. Rather than listen, and try to understand, it seems some are determined to concoct their own authoritative version of what must have happened in two peoples lives — people who one has never stood present with ever. I’ve stopped caring why this happens. Don’t have the energy for it.

If anyone is in a difficult situation in life, and wants to keep a journal of any type for whatever reason and that feels right, by all means I think you should do it and feel good about doing something for yourself.

**** the people here who would mock you for it or look down upon on you. Do what you think you need to do, consider how it works for you or not, and adjust as you see fit.

IMHO, filter what you pay attention to here, and focus mainly on the ones who have “been there” or at least give you and your situation room to be something that doesn’t yet fit in their head. Strangers on the internet who are sure of what is in your and your spouse’s heads are telling us something about themselves, and nothing of you or your mate.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Perhaps for you.
> 
> I would argue that my situation checked both boxes.


Fair enough.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> Possibilities?....
> 
> Xs for others
> 
> ...


No, she was screwing other dudes.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> No, she was screwing other dudes.


That is #1


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm thinking about starting a sex journal for a different reason...

Pure curiosity. 

It's weird, my desire for sex has dropped dramatically over the last few years. It doesn't really seem to be a problem. That said, i still really enjoy seeing my wife have an orgasm. So sometimes, i just initiate. 

Maybe it's low T on my end. Who knows. It's still a hell of a lot of fun to tease my wife and bring her to that point of ecstasy. 

I just don't seem to need it much anymore.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> I'm thinking about starting a sex journal for a different reason...
> 
> Pure curiosity.
> 
> ...


Getting tested is simple. If you are 50 or over that could be it. Or even if you are younger.
But since you said it isnt a problem, both you and wife are plenty fine as things are, as they say if it aint broke don't try to fix it.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

This article popped up today... 

"What if you and hubby both kept sex diaries for a month and then each read what the other wrote?"

It will come up on a search for 

What Could Doing Sex Diaries Teach You? The XY Code


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Quad73 said:


> This article popped up today...
> 
> "What if you and hubby both kept sex diaries for a month and then each read what the other wrote?"
> 
> ...


Mine is pretty terse for the month, mostly a few words per entry so I think if she read it she’d be bored.


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## Chet8625 (Jul 13, 2010)

During marriage counseling the therapist asked my wife and I when the last time we had sex was. My wife said it was a couple of weeks ago. I knew the exact date and circumstances (Thanksgiving, right before we left to see our daughter, three months prior.)

After that I started keeping track to see if my perception of lack of sex was accurate. It was.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Chet8625 said:


> During marriage counseling the therapist asked my wife and I when the last time we had sex was. My wife said it was a couple of weeks ago. I knew the exact date and circumstances (Thanksgiving, right before we left to see our daughter, three months prior.)
> 
> After that I started keeping track to see if my perception of lack of sex was accurate. It was.


It is obvious who it is/was important for. For you, the cell you have been forced against your will to live in. Like a prisoner, you scratch the days that have passed into the cell walls. For your wife it is something of no importance that you keep annoying her about. Where did the MC go with the two perspectives? Maybe told you that your keeping track was mixture of entitlement and OCD behavior YOU needed to get a handle on? What was your wife's response? Denial and deflection?


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

I do not keep a sex journal, but I have logged the frequency of sex in our marriage since the second year which makes it 14 years. This started when I read than frequent sex reduces the risk of prostate cancer in men and I was to possibly stop the possibility altogether in my man. Them days it was more than ten times per week and now the average is 4 times per week, higher when on holiday or the first few days after coming back from a period apart. My husband had long forgotten that I keep a record till other things happened and I showed him the log.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

MaiChi said:


> This started when I read than frequent sex reduces the risk of prostate cancer in men and I was to possibly stop the possibility altogether in my man.


Wow. I wish my wife had the same type of dedication to my prostate health!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Rus47 said:


> It is obvious who it is/was important for. For you, the cell you have been forced against your will to live in. Like a prisoner, you scratch the days that have passed into the cell walls. For your wife it is something of no importance that you keep annoying her about. Where did the MC go with the two perspectives? Maybe told you that your keeping track was mixture of entitlement and OCD behavior YOU needed to get a handle on? What was your wife's response? Denial and deflection?


My wife didn't know I was keeping track per se. I remembered the day because it was Thanksgiving. While counseling called out the disparity in her perception of when we last had sex and confirmed the disconnect in the importance (or lack thereof) of sex in our marriage, it continued to be a struggle.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MaiChi said:


> I do not keep a sex journal, but I have logged the frequency of sex in our marriage since the second year which makes it 14 years. This started when I read than frequent sex reduces the risk of prostate cancer in men and I was to possibly stop the possibility altogether in my man. Them days it was more than ten times per week and now the average is 4 times per week, higher when on holiday or the first few days after coming back from a period apart. My husband had long forgotten that I keep a record till other things happened and I showed him the log.


I admire your dedication to your husbands health, and am sure he has appreciated and enjoyed that concern, however the medical community has confirmed no links between ejaculation frequency and prostate cancer incidence.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Women aren’t they only ones that can misperceive frequency of sex. I used to track my period and sex for family planning. As I aged (49) I kept tracking for irregularities. I was expecting any irregularities in sex to be on my end, our sex life was amazing and I wanted to be proactive if hormonal changes impacted that. Over the last seven months, due to issues my husband is having (not ED), we have gone from amazing to almost nothing. I questioned my desirability and I questioned his faithfulness, but I did not question my sanity that the severe downturn was really happening, because I tracked it.

We had talk after talk about the lack of intimacy. Last month I finally broke and with sobbing said I was clearly in the friend zone, couldn’t live like this and maybe we needed to talk about divorce. He was hurt like this was a bomb I dropped on him instead of something we had been discussing month after month. He said he knew we weren’t “setting the world on fire” but it wasn’t “that bad”. I showed him my log - we only had sex 3x in 2021. He didn’t believe it at first. The next day he called the doctor.

I am all for tracking. Rating the experience is a different story.


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