# Why can't we just be friends?



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

At this point in my life I do not want to date or be in a relationship, simple you think. Since I was twelve years old I have been responsible for other people to a degree, I'll spare you all that history.

Here I am at fifty five years old and for the last couple of years I have been free of the day to day responsibilities of others (except for the nineteen people who work for me).

I do like to meet new people and have fun, I enjoy the intimacy of one on one encounters, the long talks, sharing stories and philosophies, sharing activities, etc. I make it clear from the get go that I am not interested in regular dating or a relationship, all I want is an occasional get together (not talking booty call here).

Time after time after time I end up hurting a woman's feelings, they push for more and I back away. It always starts off the same, they agree with being casual and just want a guy they can occasionally do things with, yet it always ends up the same where they want more than I want to give, then there's hurt feelings.

I am to the point where I'm afraid to even ask a woman to dinner, and that bothers me, I enjoy a woman's company but not sure it's worth the eventual hassle. 

I'm not sure why I'm even posting this, maybe just a bit discouraged, maybe looking for opinions or similar experiences. Maybe I question myself and my dating reluctance and wonder if there's something wrong with me.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I feel like that right now in my life, too, although I doubt it will always be that way.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Could you create a dining club?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

You are under no obligation to escalate a relationship beyond what you are comfortable with at the moment.

Nor are they obligated to continue a relationship that isn't going to progress into what they are looking for if they want something more serious.

That said, they should take your up-front warning at face value.

Good luck!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Don't know if there is anything "wrong with you" or not. See a counselor and you can work on finding out. The fact of the matter is, there are likely women out there just like you, but they know what you are learning. If you don't want more than conversation, just don't interact with the opposite sex in a dating style or one on one.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I feel it's honorable of you to be honest & up front like this.... I think the problem in society is.. so many people play games.. say things they don't really mean- basically to avoid getting hurt... that others come to Expect this is part of the game playing... so then in the back of their minds.. they think "well maybe I can change his mind"...

Not realizing just how Self aware & honest you really were being -trying to spare them... 

I guess a more thorough talking on this.. and how you have hurt other women in the past... not meaning to, you are just being forthcoming , the line is drawn... would be a good start.. 

Then the ball is in her court... she will have to make the right decision to cut you off -if/when she starts falling.... 

Anytime people get "close" to each other... feelings can get in the way... it's hard to predict ... or stop when the dopamine starts pumping... if you learn one is a Romantic at heart & their hope is to find love.... by all means.. you need to persuade them else where...you will be wasting their time....

If a friendship still pursues... if anything.. keep asking them if they met someone.. encourage them to get out, date!!.. .. what else can you do.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Cooper said:


> At this point in my life I do not want to date or be in a relationship, simple you think. Since I was twelve years old I have been responsible for other people to a degree, I'll spare you all that history.
> 
> Here I am at fifty five years old and for the last couple of years I have been free of the day to day responsibilities of others (except for the nineteen people who work for me).
> 
> ...


*I'm largely in the same boat as you are, Coop! More especially at Church!

I've had a couple of well meaning ladies that have suggested "get-togethers" which I'm reluctant to attend because their actions just seemingly scream out that they "want a man," even an old fart like myself!

I'm the worlds worst in not wanting to hurt their feelings so I just shy away, telling them that I'm just too busy out here at the ranch, when in reality, I'm often sitting around out here on my a$$! 

Whereas that it will take a very special woman, if any, to finally break through this calloused heart of mine, I just have no interest in any of these ladies of "near-desperation!"*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

You are setting a stage that your words contradict.

Arrange less intimate times.

Get small groups.

Try hanging out with men as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *I'm largely in the same boat as you are, Coop! More especially at Church!
> 
> I've had a couple of well meaning ladies that have suggested "get-togethers" which I'm reluctant to attend because their actions just seemingly scream out that they "want a man," even an old fart like myself!
> 
> ...


Regarding the bolded part in pink...

These ladies may be well meaning, but church **in general** is not a dating service.

Perhaps these ladies should read this link...

Are You Chasing Him And Don't Even Know It? - eHarmony Advice


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

spunkycat08 said:


> Regarding the bolded part in pink...
> 
> These ladies may be well meaning, but church **in general** is not a dating service.
> 
> ...


*Wish that you had some inate, diplomatic way of telling them that!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

spunkycat08 said:


> Regarding the bolded part in pink...
> 
> *These ladies may be well meaning, but church *in general* is not a dating service.*
> 
> ...



This may be true.. but where else is a more conservative women supposed to meet more conservative men... these type ladies don't hang out in bars.. 

IN reality.. they should join "*Christian Mingle*".. I think that's what it's called.. 

On tv I seen advertising for OurTime.com - Online Dating Site for Men & Women Over 50 ..... at least there are other eligible men seeking too... 

Maybe someone could mention these to the pestering ladies sometime.. This is WHY I would never chase a man.. because even the sweet ones , like you Arb - won't tell her to change her focus, to get lost basically...(yeah I know it sounds so cold!)...but clearly.. still such men ARE ANNOYED BY IT... Kinda sad really.. 

I just don't think women should chase men - period. 

I don't know why so many are turned off to Online dating.... its a shame as it seems the GOOD ones would never touch it..


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Nothing wrong with you at all. I was that way for years and happy.

the problem is, I don't think there are that many people that really feel that way or mean it. In other words, they may say it, or even feel it to some degree, but inwardly, their heart is actually seeking intimacy. The truly independent soul is actually quite rare I think because our society bashes us over the head constantly with the impetus to be with someone. To overcome that and go against the grain, truly is difficult.

moreover, most of us are used to being with someone long term in our past.
when we form a 'freindship' it recalls echos of what used to be and our heart changes.

nevertheless. They will be hard to find but they are out there.

keep seeking, ye seeker!


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

How about starting a group on Meet Up? http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/

There are lots of single people out there who feel like you do (I felt the same way for years after my divorce and when I was rearing my son). It's just a case of finding them.

Good luck!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"I do like to meet new people and have fun, *I enjoy the intimacy of one on one encounters, the long talks, sharing stories and philosophies, sharing activities, etc. *I make it clear from the get go that I am not interested in regular dating or a relationship, all I want is an occasional get together (not talking booty call here)."

It sure looks like you're interested in a relationship.

Perhaps you can hone your message to include that you are not looking for a girlfriend or a wife at any time. That you just want to spend time with them for the time being.

Few women who I know, want to be friends with men. They have enough friends. Neither do they want to be friends with benefits.

You want all of the good stuff (minus sex) without having to commit. Any woman wanting anything to do with a user is hoping to change that person's mind. Good luck on your quest.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Blondilocks said:


> "I do like to meet new people and have fun, *I enjoy the intimacy of one on one encounters, the long talks, sharing stories and philosophies, sharing activities, etc. *I make it clear from the get go that I am not interested in regular dating or a relationship, all I want is an occasional get together (not talking booty call here)."
> 
> It sure looks like you're interested in a relationship.


 You are right Blondilocks.. taking his own words there.. hmmmm "one on one encounters" - the mention of intimacy... 

How are you meeting these women again?... if this is how you have your AD worded.. I can see how some get the wrong idea from the start ....


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

I have a couple of friends who have been burned by men with this philosophy SO MANY times. One is married now, the other still desperately looking -- and she is a very attractive woman inside and out. It starts out that they say just want to spend time, and then 2 things happen: they also want sex in exchange for spending their time, and they also send signals that they have changed what they initially said. Then all of a sudden: poof! They're gone. 

Yes I know they both had/have some fault in this. But it's heartbreaking to watch anyway.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

thefam said:


> I have a couple of friends who have been burned by men with this philosophy SO MANY times. One is married now, the other still desperately looking -- and she is a very attractive woman inside and out. It starts out that they say just want to spend time, and then 2 things happen: they also want sex in exchange for spending their time, and they also send signals that they have changed what they initially said. Then all of a sudden: poof! They're gone.
> 
> Yes I know they both had/have some fault in this. But it's heartbreaking to watch anyway.


I hear you. But OP did say that:-


> I make it clear from the get go that I am not interested in regular dating or a relationship, all I want is an occasional get together (not talking booty call here).


Any woman who starts to develop romantic feelings towards a guy like this, but chooses not to walk away and goes on to have sex with him, only has herself to blame, IMO.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

This is the Op. I hear what all are saying, and I more than understand the way we people are hard wired to be a pair, and I have been there done that. But I am self aware enough to know I am wired a bit differently, and I am always honest about that upfront. I see from some of the responses that I am either sending mixed signals or possibly leaning toward being a player of some sort. The last thing I want to do is hurt someones feelings or take advantage of someone, I just like meeting new people and hearing their story, or spending a few hours doing a like minded activity. 

I must be tired, I'm usually articulate but am struggling to find the right words to define my feelings and thoughts. Time to put both me and this topic to bed.


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> *This may be true.. but where else is a more conservative women supposed to meet more conservative men... these type ladies don't hang out in bars..
> *
> IN reality.. they should join "*Christian Mingle*".. I think that's what it's called..
> 
> ...


Regarding the bolded part in pink...

To me it all depends on your intentions when looking for someone to date at church be it male or female.

If other people notice what is happening, they may feel uncomfortable about what you **general you** are doing.

There is a difference between being obvious and not being obvious.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

the only way I can see that you can have regular women in your life with minimal expectations is to join a club and not one with "singles" stamped on it. 

The only men I know who are able to keep regular but arms length relationships with women are gay men.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think, OP, that you may be setting yourself up in a situation where your words and your actions appear contradictory. How many times are people here told that 'if words and actions don't match up, believe the actions and ignore the words'? Well, in your case, you're saying you don't want a relationship. But your actions seem date-like. You engage in intimate conversation and you spend quality time (two of most women's top emotional needs). Your actions are signaling romantic interest, even though your words signal that you don't have that interest. I would imagine it might be confusing to some women. 

What people actually need to look for - and provide to those around them, with whom they intend to interact - is a situation in which words and actions match. It really isn't enough to simply believe - or ask another to believe - the words or the actions. Both parts need to line up. 

In your case, don't say you want a friendship but then behave as a dating partner. Don't take ladies out on dates. Or, at least not on more than one or two dates. Don't engage them in intimate conversations. Don't spend quality time with them. Don't speak of future plans. Don't, even verbally in a general way, encourage them to feel involved with your family or friends. Essentially, if you don't want a girlfriend, don't act like a (even potential) boyfriend.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Just to clarify a few things; when I speak of intimate conversations I wasn't referring to deep emotional issues, I just meant one on one conversations or get togethers. I am smart enough to know what language (body or verbal) can be misleading and steer away from such. And I'm not necessarily talking about hanging out with one woman on a regular basis, I'm talking more of an occasional get together or even meeting someone new.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. I take spin classes, there are a bunch of regulars and we have got to know one another. One of the ladies was a tri-athlete and I think that's cool as hell, so I asked her to lunch just to talk. Three days later I get a text asking what she did wrong that I haven't contacted her, we went back and forth a couple of times and then she disappeared, hasn't been to a class since. Our lunch was just lunch, not flirting, no future plans, just a lunch between to people with similar interest. 

Similar scenarios have happened to me before, so now I just don't ask even though there are other women I meet I would love to sit down and chat with. Yet conversely with another guy there's no hesitation, a new spin instructor was hired two weeks ago and at the end of the first class him and I exchanged numbers, again simply because we have similar interest.

I guess it's just a rarity or expecting to much for a man and woman to be friends without strings or preconceived agendas.


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

Cooper said:


> Just to clarify a few things; when I speak of intimate conversations I wasn't referring to deep emotional issues, I just meant one on one conversations or get togethers. I am smart enough to know what language (body or verbal) can be misleading and steer away from such. And I'm not necessarily talking about hanging out with one woman on a regular basis, I'm talking more of an occasional get together or even meeting someone new.
> 
> Here's an example of what I'm talking about. I take spin classes, there are a bunch of regulars and we have got to know one another. One of the ladies was a tri-athlete and I think that's cool as hell, so I asked her to lunch just to talk. Three days later I get a text asking what she did wrong that I haven't contacted her, we went back and forth a couple of times and then she disappeared, hasn't been to a class since. Our lunch was just lunch, not flirting, no future plans, just a lunch between to people with similar interest.
> 
> ...


OP:

Men and women are wired differently... *especially *emotionally.

To prevent further problems from happening, get to know each-other in groups.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

If you want someone to hang out with with no obligations and expectations what so ever - you need same sex friend. Hang out with guys, and there will be no disappointments.

The fact it you are enjoying female companionship, and deep down you would like one, but none of these ladies is The One. That's all. If one of them was The ONe, you would be dating like crazy with no complaints. 

Nothing wrong with it, just do not fool yourself. if they are not attracted to you, they won't meet with you. If they are, they want more than lunch every few months.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

OP - I think you are sending out mixed signals and not realizing it.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Asking a woman out to lunch because you are interested in an aspect of her life sends the signal that you're interested in HER. No wonder she was upset you didn't contact her after. 

Your conversations may seem innocent to you, but they are women's stuff of emotional connections. They'll think you're just playing a cruel game. 

Try a meet up group, try forming a Salon. I hear they're coming back and great for sharing intellectual discussion.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

It sounds like you are looking for FWB (friends with benefits.) 

If you tell women on the first date that you are only looking for FWB 
the women who equate the intimacy of one on one encounters with a growing emotional bond will have all the information they need and not accept a second date.


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> OP - I think you are sending out mixed signals and not realizing it.


^^^^^ 

I agree.

And it is not a good idea to send out mixed signals when you are in an opposite sex friendship whether or not you are single or in a relationship.

Another to thing to think about is this...

Another guy may be interested in one of your "female friends" but he is hesitant to approach her because he "thinks" she is dating you when he sees the two of you together eating lunch and so on. Especially when you spend time alone with the same female.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Satya said:


> Asking a woman out to lunch because you are interested in an aspect of her life sends the signal that you're interested in HER. No wonder she was upset you didn't contact her after.
> 
> Your conversations may seem innocent to you, but they are women's stuff of emotional connections. They'll think you're just playing a cruel game.
> 
> Try a meet up group, try forming a Salon. I hear they're coming back and great for sharing intellectual discussion.


basically you invited this woman on a date and then didn't call her back. She assumes you either didn't like her or you are an a$$. No matter how you slice it, one on one with a female is a date and no matter what you tell them ahead of time is irrelevant. Especially if the date starts to become very intimate, in any way.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Hang out with men instead of women on a 1-1 basis.

You're dating them, and then surprised that they think it's a date.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Sorry Cooper-

you're living in this deniability that meeting with a woman one-on-one is just friends. You can learn about someone else's interests in a group setting just as well as you would one-on-one without having any misunderstandings. Meetup is a good suggestion.


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> basically you invited this woman on a date and then didn't call her back. She assumes you either didn't like her or you are an a$$. No matter how you slice it, one on one with a female is a date and no matter what you tell them ahead of time is *relevant*. Especially if the date starts to become very intimate, in any way.


*naiveonedave*

I think you mean irrelevant instead of relevant.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

spunkycat08 said:


> *naiveonedave*
> 
> I think you mean irrelevant instead of relevant.


Irregardless, I think everyone understood. >

I hate that, and I used it the other day. I was so disappointed in myself. :frown2::smile2:


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Vast majority of "meetup" events are defacto dating events.

ergo, mostly singles. 

In fact if my spouse started attending meetup events I'd asseumes she's cheating.



Cosmos said:


> How about starting a group on Meet Up? USA Meetup Groups - Meetup
> 
> There are lots of single people out there who feel like you do (I felt the same way for years after my divorce and when I was rearing my son). It's just a case of finding them.
> 
> Good luck!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

IME most of the women I know already have plenty of friends, life is busy and they don't want or need more friends/ What they want is a quality man and to have good sex, with or without the relationship part.

Hang out with other men. Get a FWB or two and just do the NSA thing. Make it clear though that if you are socialising one on one with a woman that you just want company and sex, tell them you are not interested in being exclusive and then it is up to them if they want to spend time with you.

You are complicating this too much OP. Do you really know what it is you want?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> Vast majority of "meetup" events are defacto dating events.
> 
> ergo, mostly singles.
> 
> In fact if my spouse started attending meetup events I'd asseumes she's cheating.


Not in the UK. Sure their are dating Meetup groups, but there are also special interest groups. My partner and I belong to a photography group, for example, and I joined a meditation group. You can even start your own group - stating exactly what it is / isn't etc.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

I've found even the benign sounding meetup groups end up being meat markets.

Majority of singles I've seen at meetup are there for the "meetup" and the activity is just he means to get involved with other singles.

Not trying to derail the thread but if anyone is having issues in their marriage Meetup is not a place I'd suggest someone use if they are not participating along with their partner.



Cosmos said:


> Not in the UK. Sure their are dating Meetup groups, but there are also special interest groups. My partner and I belong to a photography group, for example, and I joined a meditation group. You can even start your own group - stating exactly what it is / isn't etc.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

OP, there are women out there who want "Walkers". That is, men who will escort them places and treat them as you two were on a date...... that is, you pay for everything, including their transportation. At the end of the outing, they will give you a peck on the cheek and wait for you to call them again with a similar offer.

That's the kind of relationship that was shaping up with my (future) husband and his special friend.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

My husband and I host a meetup group (athletic activity). But I agree with jdawg, that the singles heavy groups can be treated as dating forums...No matter what the venue in meeting people, it all boils down to the actions of the individual.


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