# Why My Marriage Failed in Just Over a Year



## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm posting this on the General Relationship Discussion as I found that posting anything that is critical of a female's role in marriage in the Ladies Forum will only get you banned.

I was married for 14 months. It was a contentious relationship and one that didn't manifest itself until after we got married (unfortunately we only dated for 5.5 months). I had just lost my Mom due to cancer, had to put down my dog of 13 years and embroiled in an awful legal battle with my Mom's NPD husband. 

In addition, my exwife just had breast removal due to having the Bracca-1 gene and had just completed breast reconstruction when we met. 

All that being said, our biggest issue was that I never met her expectations. If I cleaned the house, there was something that she'd find fault with. I traded stocks and made more than she did, but because I didn't have to leave the house like she did in the morning, she didn't consider it work. I did all the cooking, majority of the cleaning, finances, etc. and the few things she had on her plate she agreed to do, she started to offload on me. Even the 2.25ct center diamond wasn't good enough -- she commented that we could upgrade it at our 5 year anniversary. (This was a custom ring that I spent over $16,000 on and had two made before I presented it to her). It was a *constant* power struggle with her. 

I look back at the fact that I should have implemented some of the MMSL or NMMNG techniques, but honestly, how or why does it almost ALWAYS seem to be the man who is the one who has to change and NOT the woman who should acknowledge HER shortcomings? 

I see it time and time again here. I just don't get the 'free pass' mentality that women have for their actions or how they behave. Even when like my exwife, she physically assaulted me, I dismissed it. But when I threw a cup of water on her to get her out of her rage and stop her hitting me, she called the cops on me and said she was assaulted and in fear of her life because I had guns in the house (I've had a CCW permit for over 7 years and have NEVER threatened someone with a gun). 

I went through a period of cleansing where I needed to acknowledge the mistakes I made in interacting with her in order to move on. Through that process, she felt remorse for what she did and things became physical for a brief time. But as soon as I tried for her to acknowledge HER role in our demise, she immediately became defensive, said she wasn't going to live in the past, that she did everything for the marriage and I did nothing, and then walked out.

I just don't get it. Sorry for being so long-winded, but the double-standard is excruciatingly mad.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

Dreald said:


> but honestly, how or why does it almost ALWAYS seem to be the man who is the one who has to change and NOT the woman who should acknowledge HER shortcomings?


They say the red pill is bitter. You can take your ball and go home or you can use it to your advantage.

Why call them shortcomings? She wants the 'fittest' mate. Are you saying you shouldn't be held to some standard?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"...how or why does it almost ALWAYS seem to be the man who is the one who has to change and NOT the woman who should acknowledge HER shortcomings?"

Are you saying you have had people commenting on YOUR particular situation, who told YOU that you should have changed and/or just accepted your wife's behavior?


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Dawn of Man said:


> They say the red pill is bitter. You can take your ball and go home or you can use it to your advantage.
> 
> Why call them shortcomings? She wants the 'fittest' mate. Are you saying you shouldn't be held to some standard?


I have to agree with this. I understand your point OP, sometimes I want to say fck all and go be a lazy obese slob who doesn't work and plays computer games all day, instead of trying to meet some chick's insane expectations. 

But then I realize I shouldn't do any of those stuff for anybody else anyway. I can only change me and well, I want to be the best man I can become. I can be a man with a purpose, a man with a plan and a man with options. I can be emotionally independent instead of clingy and pass sh!t tests with ease.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

By the way Dreald...I went back to one of your earlier posts. You wrote this:

"We dated for about 6 months before we got married. 3 of which were spent at my Mom's house as she endured the final stages of cancer. I also then had to put down my dog of 13 years. Then I had a prostate cancer scare. So we had about 3 months of really getting to know each other and things seemed fine."

So you married a woman you had only known for 3 months, and you thought somehow that meant you really knew her well enough to spend a lifetime with her? You were definitely guilty of believing in fairy tales if you really believed this.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

Dawn of Man said:


> They say the red pill is bitter. You can take your ball and go home or you can use it to your advantage.
> 
> Why call them shortcomings? She wants the 'fittest' mate. Are you saying you shouldn't be held to some standard?


That's a good point and hadn't thought about it from that perspective...

But when do you realize that her idealization of the 'fittest' mate doesn't jibe with reality? In other words, I've seen a lot of women who won't settle for a man who doesn't fit their EXACT profile of perfection but the reality is, they won't ever find someone like that. Or at least a man who doesn't have better options themselves.

There's even been articles written by women about this phenomenon and that many women have been raised to expect perfection in their prospective mate and then when married, become deeply bitter and disappointed that their life isn't something like a scene out of the movies. And yet men are expected to be understanding of their wife's faults and help her in becoming a better person. 

I'm not saying that I'm perfect, but I do have a lot going for me. I have almost 8 figures in savings, a good career, used to own my home before I sold it for her, no debt, no kids and been told I'm good looking. I can engage and carry a conversation with almost anyone and have a funny/sarcastic personality. I definitely have beta characteristics, but my exwife would say that I'm almost all alpha (probably because I didn't agree with everything she wanted, all the time). 

But she (and other women that I've read here and elsewhere) will focus in on that item that he ISN'T, instead of appreciating the entire package. Frankly, it's no wonder that men are simply opting out of marriage altogether. While I'd like to get married again, the benefits and pitfalls are somewhat at odds with each other. 

I'm simply just ranting....like other men here, I'm disappointed with the quality and expectations of many women out there without stopping to look in the mirror of their role.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Dreald said:


> I see it time and time again here. I just don't get the 'free pass' mentality that women have for their actions or how they behave. Even when like my exwife, she physically assaulted me, I dismissed it. But when I threw a cup of water on her to get her out of her rage and stop her hitting me, she called the cops on me and said she was assaulted and in fear of her life because I had guns in the house (I've had a CCW permit for over 7 years and have NEVER threatened someone with a gun).


They get a free pass because we give them a free pass. Society teaches us "women good, men bad". Sugar and spice and everything nice. Well that everything nice doesn't really feel any remorse in cheating on you, divorcing you, taking the house and moving the OM in. Okay lol maybe not every chick is that bad. 

But if you don't realize that women,just like men, are fcked up humans and act accordingly, protect yourself, nip problems in the bud, and stop abusive behaviour at its starting point; you won't know what hits you when they go berserk on you.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "...how or why does it almost ALWAYS seem to be the man who is the one who has to change and NOT the woman who should acknowledge HER shortcomings?"
> 
> Are you saying you have had people commenting on YOUR particular situation, who told YOU that you should have changed and/or just accepted your wife's behavior?


Yes. That as the man, I should accept her for who she is because I certainly can't change her. And I agree with that aspect. That as the man, I should take lead on things. Which I tried to do but it was probably too late in affecting the outcome. At least not with someone whose longest relationship was less than a year. I wish I had known that prior to getting married to her.


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## AWorkInProgress (Dec 6, 2012)

Given your experience, I understand the rawness you feel. 

The backlash you have received is from making blanket statements about women in general (even if you use the caveat that NOT ALL women are this way) it comes across as inflammatory...

You were treated quite horiibly by your ex-wife...it's understandable to not want marriage.

I was married to a man who lied more often than he told the truth....however, I don't believe that even most men are as manipulative as my ex-husabnd was/is. 

Sounds like you just needed a sounding board to heal.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

Dreald said:


> That's a good point and hadn't thought about it from that perspective...
> 
> But when do you realize that her idealization of the 'fittest' mate doesn't jibe with reality? In other words, I've seen a lot of women who won't settle for a man who doesn't fit their EXACT profile of perfection but the reality is, they won't ever find someone like that. Or at least a man who doesn't have better options themselves.
> 
> ...


Yes, many women have the wrong expectations just as men get the wrong advice on how to deal with it. Besides, a lot of your wife's bickering can be seen as sh!t tests and not specific areas that you need improve on. The point being is learning how to read and react to these tests rather than complying with her expectations.

But as Shadow_Nirvana said, all you can control is yourself. Become the best man you can and she'll either take it or leave it. A good chance she'll take it if you ask me, rhetorically speaking.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> By the way Dreald...I went back to one of your earlier posts. You wrote this:
> 
> "We dated for about 6 months before we got married. 3 of which were spent at my Mom's house as she endured the final stages of cancer. I also then had to put down my dog of 13 years. Then I had a prostate cancer scare. So we had about 3 months of really getting to know each other and things seemed fine."
> 
> So you married a woman you had only known for 3 months, and you thought somehow that meant you really knew her well enough to spend a lifetime with her? You were definitely guilty of believing in fairy tales if you really believed this.


Oh, believe me -- I OWN the mistake. She presented herself as someone who she really wasn't. Much like her Dad -- greatest guy in the world for about 4-6 hours. After that, he reverted back to his natural personality which wasn't all that pleasant to be around. 

For a lot of reasons, she presented herself and our relationship as one of 'destiny'. We were supposed to have gone out 2.5 years previously off of a dating site but she met someone earlier and dated him. Her Mom had breast cancer, my mom died from it. We seemed to be perfect for each other and she commented on numerous occasions that folks who dated only 30 days are now married 30 years later and those who dated years, never made it past the first couple of years together. I couldn't really argue these facts and she seemed to be so wonderful and caring.

Once we got married, the hammer came down and it became my entire responsibility to react to her needs and mine were secondary, if considered at all. I felt like I was walking around on eggshells waiting for the next outburst of leaving water on the bathroom counter after washing my hands...not petting her cat correctly as it released too much hair....getting upset that I didnt' clean the bathroom precisely her way....etc, etc.

Never once did she acknowledge how she never helped me in getting my home ready to sell and yet was right there when the proceeds were distributed to ensure they were put into "our" checking account. To this day, all that she's commented was that "perhaps I could have helped you out a bit more"....

Again, sorry to rant about this. We're done as a couple. I just saw a thread that was similar to my exwife and had to comment on the double-standard that women hold their men to, but are unwilling to do so for themselves.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Dreald said:


> I look back at the fact that I should have implemented some of the MMSL or NMMNG techniques, but honestly, how or why does it almost ALWAYS seem to be the man who is the one who has to change and NOT the woman who should acknowledge HER shortcomings?


Is that the case or are you giving more weight to threads that match your situation?

If there is a pattern that I've noticed, it's that women tend to look at men as "projects" or "diamonds in the rough" and men usually have no such designs on the women they pick. As a result, women become unhappy if the men don't change and men become unhappy when the women do change. These are generalizations of course. Change should always be expected, but it can't be dictated. That's why both sides have issues - their expectations are unreasonable. 

That's my view from 50,000 feet anyway.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Dreald...ok, I am a woman and I'll say this to you: Your exwife appears to have completely duped you. Even though you recognize you jumped in too soon, she still holds responsibility for not presenting her real self to you, as clearly she understood that you wouldn't have married her if she had been her real self while you were getting to know each other.

I get it, and really, you ended up in a very bad deal.

But myself, having read literally thousands of people's stories on message boards, I have seen both men and women get told that they need to own their own sh*t, to man or woman up, and to be the best they can. I do not see this "it is all the man's fault" that you are reporting. Not as an overall trend, anyway. Some posts here and there are going to be leaning one direction or the other, but the overall message to both men and women that I have seen is, own your sh*t and do your best. 

I'm sorry for what you went through. Does it help to hear me (or anyone) tell you that it sounds like you didn't deserve any of that? To me, you just seem too fresh from the wound to be able to be reflective instead of reactive. You are still the walking wounded, IMO. Perhaps you will read things differently in a year or two, if you are still around on message boards by then.


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

Dreald said:


> Even the 2.25ct center diamond wasn't good enough -- she commented that we could upgrade it at our 5 year anniversary. (This was a custom ring that I spent over $16,000 on and had two made before I presented it to her). It was a *constant* power struggle with her.


That alone shows that she married you for your money. Your friends and family should have jumped on this and slapped you until you understood how big of a red flag this is.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

VermisciousKnid said:


> Is that the case or are you giving more weight to threads that match your situation?
> 
> If there is a pattern that I've noticed, it's that women tend to look at men as "projects" or "diamonds in the rough" and men usually have no such designs on the women they pick. As a result, women become unhappy if the men don't change and men become unhappy when the women do change. These are generalizations of course. Change should always be expected, but it can't be dictated. That's why both sides have issues - their expectations are unreasonable.
> 
> That's my view from 50,000 feet anyway.


I think that's spot on. She most certainly wanted me to change. From who I was friends with, to my interest in spending time with my family, to those hobbies (beer, wine and cheese-making) that she didn't agree with or thought were 'frivolous', to getting my eyebrows waxed, to having her stylist cut my hair. I almost wondered why she married me if she saw me as such a 'wreck'! 

Well stated comment. I think both sexes can learn from reflecting on it.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

Lots of women are fixers. They have read about the bad boy that just needs the right girl to become a good guy. It's in the movies. It's everywhere. That said, it's not just men that need to make the changes. It's generally the person that is unhappy with the current situation that seeks help and makes changes. You only have control over you. So obviously you make the changes for you. You can't make her change


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

VermisciousKnid said:


> Is that the case or are you giving more weight to threads that match your situation?
> 
> If there is a pattern that I've noticed, it's that women tend to look at men as "projects" or "diamonds in the rough" and men usually have no such designs on the women they pick. As a result, women become unhappy if the men don't change and men become unhappy when the women do change. These are generalizations of course. Change should always be expected, but it can't be dictated. That's why both sides have issues - their expectations are unreasonable.
> 
> That's my view from 50,000 feet anyway.


"Women marry men hoping they can change them. Men marry women hoping they never change."


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Advice to accept that your wife was as she was and that you couldn't do anything to "make" her change was....I'm afraid to tell you....spot on. 

However, what you also need to realize is that "accept that this is who she is" does _not_ equal "stay with her anyway." You needed to face the fact that your wife wouldn't change. Then you needed to decide if you could live with her or not. And act on that decision.

Look, I get it. You feel like a bit of a fool for having put up with all her crap. But trying to change her, refusing to set and maintain your own boundaries, allowing her behavior to continue to control your life? Sorry, but all of that is squarely on you. And that's why you need to be the one to change, to read the books, to do the work. Not so you can stay married to your wife, but so that you can figure out how to not find yourself in the position of putting up with someone like her in the future.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Dreald said:


> I see it time and time again here. I just don't get the 'free pass' mentality that women have for their actions or how they behave. Even when like my exwife, she physically assaulted me, I dismissed it. But when I threw a cup of water on her to get her out of her rage and stop her hitting me, she called the cops on me and said she was assaulted and in fear of her life because I had guns in the house (I've had a CCW permit for over 7 years and have NEVER threatened someone with a gun).


Believe it or not, I'm a woman and I see and understand what you're saying. I partly agree with it, and partly disagree. Yes, I think that there's a HUGE double standard and that our entire society fosters it to some degree. Learn about "hegemony" and try to apply equal rights and you'll find that there can be no such thing! Not fair, but neither are the alternatives. 

However, despite the unfairness and double standards, it takes two to make a bad marriage.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Dreald...ok, I am a woman and I'll say this to you: Your exwife appears to have completely duped you. Even though you recognize you jumped in too soon, she still holds responsibility for not presenting her real self to you, as clearly she understood that you wouldn't have married her if she had been her real self while you were getting to know each other.
> 
> I get it, and really, you ended up in a very bad deal.
> 
> ...


Thank you for not making it out to be all my fault, that I should have seen the red flags before, that I was stupid to have married her after dating such a short time, etc. Believe me, I've heard that ALL before and while I don't disagree with it, it's easy to say that in hind-sight. And I'd agree, I don't think everyone says "it's all the man's fault", but in trying to own the mistakes that I made in our brief marriage, I had truly hoped she could have seen her role in the demise as well. Instead it simply turned into an opportunity for her to blame me and exit contentiously. 

Yes, the hurt is still raw. Even after all this, I still care for her but realize there's no way we could have worked as a couple. She unfortunately had a miscarriage due to a partial molar pregnancy (where two sperm fertilized one egg). To which I was blamed for and that somehow I was defective since I was 7 years older than her. I always thought it was the egg that determined the entrance of the sperm, but apparently I was incorrect on that as well....:scratchhead:

Thank you for your comments. It does help and I need to learn that I can't take away one mistake and mislabel it to all women. But I am so, so reticent to want to accept another women in marriage again. I have so much to lose financially and she has everything to gain. In just the 14 months we were together, I spent over $60k on her (engagement ring, wedding ring, honeymoon, paying off her car, credit card debts, lifestyle improvements, etc). She even took the $5,000 I left in our joint checking account to pay for bills. 

Honestly, it's really not as though she's an evil person. She just feels so entitled -- that I owed her that for marrying her. A common belief among women nowadays, IMO, that "if he loves me, he'll do this for me" attitude. Well, I did and I got taken...to the cleaners. And still she views all of this as no big deal, as though it really hurt me given my financial status.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Dreald...I am sorry this happened to you.

I was extremely hurt and ticked off after my divorce. I was married for a long time, not a short time. And I was the one who got financially taken advantage of.

It took me quite a bit of time to get over it. 

But I'm married now to the man of my dreams.

Your pain and anxiety over this won't last forever, if you refuse to let it. You will need at least a full year to recover, and it hasn't been that long yet, right?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Dreald said:


> Thank you for not making it out to be all my fault, that I should have seen the red flags before, that I was stupid to have married her after dating such a short time, etc.
> 
> *How many of us have felt this way? Hint: triple digits!*
> 
> ...


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Dreald said:


> Thank you for your comments. It does help and I need to learn that I can't take away one mistake and mislabel it to all women. But I am so, so reticent to want to accept another women in marriage again. I have so much to lose financially and she has everything to gain. In just the 14 months we were together, I spent over $60k on her (engagement ring, wedding ring, honeymoon, paying off her car, credit card debts, lifestyle improvements, etc). She even took the $5,000 I left in our joint checking account to pay for bills.
> 
> Honestly, it's really not as though she's an evil person. She just feels so entitled -- that I owed her that for marrying her. A common belief among women nowadays, IMO, that "if he loves me, he'll do this for me" attitude. Well, I did and I got taken...to the cleaners. And still she views all of this as no big deal, as though it really hurt me given my financial status.


Given your impressive savings (you did say nearly eight figures, right?) she seems like a gold digger. Maybe not evil, but definitely untrustworthy. Did you consider/have a prenup?


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Dreald...I am sorry this happened to you.
> 
> I was extremely hurt and ticked off after my divorce. I was married for a long time, not a short time. And I was the one who got financially taken advantage of.
> 
> ...


Our state requires you to be separated for 1 year prior to divorce. We've been officially divorced since mid-December. As part of my healing process and acknowledgement of those things I took ownership of the way I interacted with her during our marriage. That I should have said my truth and then moved on and not be focused on when she would deny, dismiss or refute what I said.

Unfortunately that led us to have a short, intimate relationship again and I was hoping that we could perhaps learn from our mistakes and even move forward together as a couple. That wasn't to be. I erringly thought that through my self-analysis and discovery, that she too might reflect on things. When I pointed out the areas that *I* saw her to own, she immediately became defensive and she went right back to blaming everything on me. 

Stupid...but it did confirm for me that we simply could not be together. It cost me a bundle for the short time we were together. I just need to acknowledge what I could have done differently, set up my boundaries better, and not dismiss warning signs in the future.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

VermisciousKnid said:


> Given your impressive savings (you did say nearly eight figures, right?) she seems like a gold digger. Maybe not evil, but definitely untrustworthy. Did you consider/have a prenup?


I have no doubt she wouldn't have signed a prenup. I asked my Dad about it but he felt unless you have several millions in assets, a prenup would only cause dissension for a woman. I had a little less than a million and that was due to my putting 15-20% of my earnings throughout my lifetime in stocks, IRAs and living frugally in a home where I bought when I was 25. 

In fact, after she falsely accused me of assault and 'being in fear of her life because I had guns', I took all my premarital assets out of our joint checking account (Yep, she duped me into having her added because 'we were married' and that's what married couples do). Even when I tried to reconcile with her, she said that if I didn't put all the money back where it was, that our marriage was over. When I asked "why" when other marriages have separate finances. She said that it wasn't what we agreed to when we got married. 

So....I know I was a fool to have married her. I know that she most likely wouldn't have married me if I didn't have assets (although I don't think she's alone in this thinking). I know that I'll recover financially and most likely be better off without her spending my money on things I didn't agree to. 

If I get married again I'll most certainly have a prenup. Honestly at my age, not sure whether I really do want to get married again. Much easier and simpler to enjoy one's company without inviting the State to intercede if things go south.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

The prenuptual isn't the problem. The problem is making wiser choices in significant others. 

Look back at all the red flags you saw but did not heed. You rationalized them away. I guarantee they are there. That's more important to learn from than focusing on how bad she was to you after marriage.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

There are lots of women who don't care about money. There are lots that do though. I would suggest especially in your financial situation, you take years to get to know someone and know their intentions. We can all put on a happy face and false front for a year or two


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dreald said:


> She called the cops on me and said she was assaulted and in fear of her life because I had guns in the house.


Dreald, my 15-year marriage ended the same way, with my BPDer exW calling the cops and having me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. That's why I suggested, last November, that you read my description of my exW's BPD traits to see if most of them sound very familiar.

In your 12/22/12 post, you responded saying that BPD traits did seem to apply and that your MC agreed that your W seemed to have some strong BPD traits. If so, it seems unfair for you to be painting so many women black based on your painful experiences with a BPDer W. The problem is not women in general but, rather, your misguided choice of a mate.

Although we never had a chance to discuss it, I thought that your subsequent descriptions of her behavior sound closer to NPD traits than BPD traits. One reason is that, in describing a gold digger who was after every dollar and jewel she could extract from you, you seem to be describing a woman who never really loved you. I mention this because, whereas BPDers are capable of loving people, NPDers are not.

Another reason for my skepticism about strong BPD traits is that you seem to be describing a stable woman who was consistently abusive following the wedding. NPDers are stable and consistent like that. In contrast, a BPDer would have been very unstable and inconsistent, e.g., pushing you away some days (for no apparent reason) and then pulling you back with love and passion on other days. I therefore suggest you read Kathy's article on narcissism to see if it rings some bells. It is available at Narcissism: Recognizing, Coping With, and Treating It.


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## Sigma Uber Alles (Oct 15, 2012)

Dreald... Sorry for your situation. Just a suggestion, if I may.

You need to Google "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" and read up on the subject. You will then understand "Idealization" and why she mirrored you and initially thought you were so perfect. You will understand why she seemed so perfect (at first). You will understand "Black and White Thinking" and why she ultimately devalued you and left... and why you are fortunate that this nut case is gone. Consider yourself lucky that you escaped alive.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Dreald I am glad you posted again. It seems to have given you a chance to look at things in a new way. 

One way to look at this is that you got out of this cheaply. 60K is a lot of money but if she didn't do you a favor and walk out, you probably would have staid married for years. 

60K is worth you sanity and peace of mind. You were in an emotionally vulnerable state and probably did something you would not normally do. 

Sounds like you are beating yourself up for what happened. In my opinion, you were in a state of temporary emotional turmoil. You were not capable of recognizing the red flags. 

Now it's time to begin the forgiveness process. Forgive yourself. You were not a fool, you are a generous good man who gave to a woman who was not worth your generosity. I know you still care about her which is an additional credit to you. 

You think she is happy with the spoils. A million dollars could not fill the empty space in her heart. I call you lucky. Do you realize how many bullets your dodged? Your temporary vulnerable state did not cost you 18 years of forced association because an innocent soul was born of this union. 

I know you will be ok. Go easy on yourself and reframe the way you see this. Maybe getting some IC assistance to process this will help. Your lost faith in women will dissipate once you get through your grieving process. Make sure not to take this into your next relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

You married too quickly, without getting to know the real her.

Also men and women can be used and become doormats, if they do not have good boundaries.

It's not just men who have to know what their values are and know what they will and won't stand for.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> Believe it or not, I'm a woman and I see and understand what you're saying. I partly agree with it, and partly disagree. Yes, I think that there's a HUGE double standard and that our entire society fosters it to some degree. Learn about "hegemony" and try to apply equal rights and you'll find that there can be no such thing! Not fair, but neither are the alternatives.
> 
> However, despite the unfairness and double standards, it takes two to make a bad marriage.


Another way to look at it is to accept that you can only control yourself. Yes, perhaps women are given a bit more of a pass on some of this stuff, but in the end you can't control your wife (or any one else for that matter). What you can do is control yourself. So you work to change yourself, your actions, your attitudes and your manner. You work to be the type of man that you want to be.

But as you do this, you need to hold your wife accountable for her actions. If she continues on the same path while you are working on you, then you need to call her out. If that does not work, you need to take action. In some cases, that means divorce.

Regardless, I am sorry you had to go through what you did.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Dreald, my 15-year marriage ended the same way, with my BPDer exW calling the cops and having me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. That's why I suggested, last November, that you read my description of my exW's BPD traits to see if most of them sound very familiar.
> 
> In your 12/22/12 post, you responded saying that BPD traits did seem to apply and that your MC agreed that your W seemed to have some strong BPD traits. If so, it seems unfair for you to be painting so many women black based on your painful experiences with a BPDer W. The problem is not women in general but, rather, your misguided choice of a mate.
> 
> ...


*Thanks Uptown, you've given me something to think about. Maybe she had NPD tendencies with an Irish temper!? *


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dreald said:


> *Thanks Uptown, you've given me something to think about. Maybe she had NPD tendencies with an Irish temper!? *


Another possibility, Dreald, is that she may have strong traits of both disorders. A recent study (pub. 2008) found that about 70% of BPDers also suffer from one or two other PDs like NPD, AvPD, or Antisocial PD. If she were a full-blown narcissist with some moderate BPD traits, she would be incapable of ever loving you because true narcissists view other people as objects. However, if she were a full-blown BPDer with some narcissist tendencies, she would be emotionally unstable but capable of loving you (albeit in an immature fashion), because BPDers are unstable and narcissists typically are not.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Um. It's not always the man who changes.

I changed. Big time. He's still leaving though. But that's ok cause I'm awesome now  His loss.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I haven't read any of your previous threads, but I think I know how you feel. TAMers tend to tell you what YOU can do, since you're the one here and not your spouse. I've been in the place where I just really wanted to hear, "that sucks for you, I'm sorry," and instead I got more advice about what I might be doing wrong or perspective on whether whatever's going on is just something I should overlook. Lesson learned, though! If I'm feeling vulnerable and trodden on, I should just be blunt and say I need some virtual hugs. 

There's so much good advice here, but when you're just feeling a ton of hurt and pain, advice can feel like salt in the wound. I totally get that. But when you're in a better place, re-read that advice, because I'll bet there's a ton of good stuff.

Hugs to you!


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Another possibility, Dreald, is that she may have strong traits of both disorders. A recent study (pub. 2008) found that about 70% of BPDers also suffer from one or two other PDs like NPD, AvPD, or Antisocial PD. If she were a full-blown narcissist with some moderate BPD traits, she would be incapable of ever loving you because true narcissists view other people as objects. However, if she were a full-blown BPDer with some narcissist tendencies, she would be emotionally unstable but capable of loving you (albeit in an immature fashion), because BPDers are unstable and narcissists typically are not.


That's some good information to reflect on. I'm honestly not trying to place blame on her, but I've never been in a relationship like the one we had. Where I started to question whether *I* was the one who was seeing things wrong and coupled with my nice-guy/rescuer personality, took on a large portion of the blame for our divorce. I've had several long-term relationships (5, 3, 2.5, etc) -- she was incapable of having one for more than a year (one exception which was 18 months, but that was long distance so probably equates to less than a year normally). I'm not perfect, but I think she'll find that given her pickiness and high expectations, there's not too many guys who'll fit her bill, let alone put up with her controlling, critical and non-compromising behavior. She can put on an act like the best of them, but eventually she has to be herself. The key would be to date someone long enough to know whether they're just acting or it's who they are. Obviously 5 months wasn't enough for me.

I like to learn from my mistakes and have read through the MMSL and NMMNG books so I can better myself and perspective for the next woman in my life. I bring this up hopefully so others don't make the mistake that I did and to keep myself from feeling that many women are like her: that HER demands/needs come first, that if SHE'S not happy, then no one will be happy; that to try and satisfy her is they key to long-term happiness when in fact that's not usually the case; that to argue with an irrational-woman is akin to wrestling with a pig -- just don't do it and stay above the fray....

Thanks for again for the feedback. Something to think about while I move on.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> Believe it or not, I'm a woman and I see and understand what you're saying. I partly agree with it, and partly disagree. Yes, I think that there's a HUGE double standard and that our entire society fosters it to some degree.


:iagree: I also agree, as a woman, that *both* genders need to "grow up" and own their own chit. I learned that the hard way (through various life experiences), and I'm truly a better person for realizing and working on this.

I'm also very sorry, Dreald, that you got such a raw deal. Obviously your wife only married you for your money, and duped you into doing so. I can't imagine how hurtful that realization must have been.


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