# Do women worry about men cheating all the time like the men seem to worry about women?



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This is a spin off of the thread about women pining for their ex's and whether women will cheat with exes and such. 

My question is do women go through all these mental exercises on how best to keep their men from cheating like a lot of the guys here seem to?

Do women worry about if their men have hooked up with "Alpha" women in their past? (is there such thing as alpha and beta women????)

Do women have books and podcasts and youtube videos telling other women to marry virgin/low count men so the men don't cheat? 

Do women talk about avoiding men that work in certain jobs and industries because they will be more likely to cheat?

Do women talk about men riding carousels and that men that have partied and hooked up with chicks in college should be avoided. 

Do women advise other women to "not let" their husbands go out unescorted or cannot have female friends unless a family member is present? 

Do women do all these mental calculations to try to determine which traits and characteristics and social dynamics and employment options that will be most indicative of a man cheating and do women employ all of these defensive countermeasures in attempt to keep their men out of other women's beds. 

My question is not if guys should do this stuff or if it does or does not lead to cheating. 

My question is if women talk like this with each other and do women put in as much mental energy and forethought into trying to keep their men out of other people's beds as the men here seem to? 

Do women lay awake nights worrying about this stuff and expending the same mental gymnastics and dialogue that men seem to?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In other words, are lots of women idiots, in the same way that lots of men are idiots?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

No. Women are idiots in a different way.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> This is a spin off of the thread about women pining for their ex's and whether women will cheat with exes and such.
> 
> My question is do women go through all these mental exercises on how best to keep their men from cheating like a lot of the guys here seem to?
> 
> ...


They do not in general but yes they worry about it. They don't have that thing that some extreme insecure bullying men have about feeling like they own their woman and their woman's body. Well there may be some out there that feel that way but I've never met one. 

But there are some that are very possessive. I have not been friends with someone who was that possessive but I've encountered them with people who were service workers. 

There had been two women who would not leave their men's side when they were at someone's house doing their job like putting in a new bathroom sink or painting and made a general pain in the ass of themselves. Their men would look for the first opportunity to apologize for them. These women were literally costing their men jobs and should have been working themselves so they didn't have so much time on their hands to monitor their man.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

Laurentium said:


> No. Women are idiots in a different way.


How so, kind sir.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> This is a spin off of the thread about women pining for their ex's and whether women will cheat with exes and such.
> 
> My question is do women go through all these mental exercises on how best to keep their men from cheating like a lot of the guys here seem to?
> 
> ...


Not sure but there seems to be more social media from and aimed at men over it.

I do know women probably worry about it just as much but it's probably getting less coverage right now.

There are some seriously ugly trends in social media aimed at and from woman these days conversely.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

@oldshirt, I won't call you surely: but you must know by now that humans are a wild species. There isn't a 'norm,' only more or less so, that is as good as a person will get.
I would guess that there are far more women concerned with their partner cheating/deceit than men. Historically, women have only recently been in a position to do so without life threatening consequences; and this is only in the western hemisphere, mind you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

harperlee said:


> I would guess that there are far more women concerned with their partner cheating/deceit than men. Historically, women


I am not saying whether I think you are right or you are wrong about this statement, but I will say that if it is true, you would not be able to guess that by reading the threads here. 

I don't know if I have seen one thread by a woman warning other women of what to watch out for and what to avoid in men as a defensive posture against a man's potential for cheating in the future. 

I've never seen a post by a woman warning other women to not marry a man that has displayed this or that sexual practice in the past. 


I have never seen a woman urge other women to beware of a man that has been with an "Alpha Woman" in the past. In fact I don't know if I've ever even heard the term 'alpha woman' but I've sure seen a lot of warnings about alpha males. 

I don't know if I've heard anywhere in my life of women telling other women to seek a virgin/low count man. 

I don't know if I have ever once heard a woman warn other women to avoid men in certain professions and occupations (supposedly men are not supposed to get with women that are teachers and nurses. I guess I should have warned my dad about that since he was married to my mom for 64 years and who had been a teacher for over 40 years and I guess I should get rid of my wife of 27 years since she has been a nurse for almost 25 years 😨)

I don't think I have ever heard a woman directly say that a man that has been with "X" number of women will be "damaged" and actually incapable of forming a faithful bond and will always be more prone to infidelity. 

I have never heard a woman say that men with certain political views will be more prone to infidelity than a man with differing political views. 

I have never heard a woman suggest that men should not be "allowed" to go out with his male friends for some kind of Boys Night Out (is there even such a thing as a BNO?) 

I have never heard a woman say that how a man dresses or colors his hair or has tattoos etc will be more likely to cheat. 

I have never heard a woman say that a man should only ever socialize if his wife or another relative goes with him. 

I don't think I have ever heard a woman advise any of those things in regards to men here on the pages of TAM but yet these are very common statements among men in regards to keeping women out of other men's beds. 

That's my question here. My question is not whether men cheat. It's not whether they cheat more or less than women. It's not whether there are actual warning signs or red flags of men cheating. 

My question is whether women talk about it and warn their peers about it like the men here do.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Its pretty simple...

There is a MASSIVE disparity in opportunity between genders....

Take for instance....My daughter, who is 20 and is very attractive, tells me she is getting hit on "relentlessly"...and amazingly, she is very conservative in what she wears and how she carries herself...But that's just one end of the scale...You will even hear stories of older women, even grannies, that are still getting hit on...Even the homeliest of women are getting hit on, maybe not to the same level, but still..Now just imagine, as a guy, if you had numerous options coming to you on a daily basis?? At that point no guy would be loyal..lol...

Now...for men its dramatically different....A good percentage of men, report NEVER getting hit on....Like in their entire lives...Even good looking guys don't get hit on "regularly"...unless they are superstars or something...It just doesn't really happen...not nearly to the same degree as most women report...

A lot of cheating is about opportunity....A guy can't just fall off a log and get laid, like women can..

.I don't know who originally said it, but its been said..."men are only as faithful as their options",,,,,and a LOT of guys have very little, or practically no options, so there is likely to be less to worry about.. For a lot of men, there is an issue of control....They worry, because they are just more controlling than most women would be...


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> My question is whether women talk about it and warn their peers about it like the men here do.


No, I don't think so oldshirt.
If I may say so, misogyny is fairly rampant here. Also, and I mean this in the kindest way; so much bitterness.
I think most women have learned to only get on with things, the reasons are varied but as I implied, historical.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> This is a spin off of the thread about women pining for their ex's and whether women will cheat with exes and such.
> 
> My question is do women go through all these mental exercises on how best to keep their men from cheating like a lot of the guys here seem to?
> 
> ...


Not in the same way, I don't think. Men tend to care more about the physicality of the act than any emotional commitments, whereas women tend to care more about whether the man is investing into the relationship than if he's had a one-off with somebody else. That isn't to say they don't care about the other considerations, just that each has a primary concern about infidelity that is individual to the gender.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> Its pretty simple...
> 
> There is a MASSIVE disparity in opportunity between genders....
> 
> ...


There is a lot of truth to this and I have no doubt that it does play into the difference in how men and women each perceive the threat. 

Any woman could cheat at any time, any where and with anyone in the blink of an eye, so as a man and a husband I do understand some of the concern and vigilence and why men may feel a lot of pressure to try to look for early detection signs. 

I am just curious if women put in anywhere near the mental energy and mental gymnastics that men do in trying to detect early warning signs and such.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

harperlee said:


> No, I don't think so oldshirt.
> If I may say so, misogyny is fairly rampant here. Also, and I mean this in the kindest way; so much bitterness.
> I think most women have learned to only get on with things, the reasons are varied but as I implied, historical.


I agree that sometimes the men aren't being fair to the women here.
I think that some here, on both sides, are still processing their traumas when they are trying to be helpful to the conversations.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

harperlee said:


> No, I don't think so oldshirt.
> If I may say so, misogyny is fairly rampant here. Also, and I mean this in the kindest way; so much bitterness.
> I think most women have learned to only get on with things, the reasons are varied but as I implied, historical.


I would like to elaborate. I think that women tend to attack other women. Ingrained/internalized misogyny. I've done it, I've been there, have the t-shirt.
I do not think women spend very much time questioning their male partner as much as being territorial toward other women. 
There is a difference between territory and love; in this way, men and women are similar.



UAArchangel said:


> I agree that sometimes the men aren't being fair to the women here.
> I think that some here, on both sides, are still processing their traumas when they are trying to be helpful to the conversations.


I understand. It's a bit much at times.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

The thought "oh i wonder if he is cheating on me" is like the devil on my shoulder from old cartoons when I am in a relationship - but I have learned through practice and a lot of work on my self, to try and stop those thoughts in their tracks. That said, it will likely always be something I ask myself in a way it wouldn't have been before I divorced. It's like whackamole with negative thoughts and most of the time I win. Ideally one day it won't even occur to me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

harperlee said:


> I would like to elaborate. I think that women tend to attack other women. Ingrained/internalized misogyny. I've done it, I've been there, have the t-shirt.
> I do not think women spend very much time questioning their male partner as much as being territorial toward other women.
> There is a difference between territory and love; in this way, men and women are similar.
> 
> ...


A misogynistic person could look at your analysis and conclude that women are the problem for both sexes.



I don't agree with that, even though I think your analysis is spot on. 

Both sexes know that women do not lack for sexual opportunity, and even a mildly sexually-aggressive woman won't have a problem finding someone to scratch her proverbial itch.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> A misogynistic person could look at your analysis and conclude that women are the problem for both sexes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sexual opportunity. As a woman, wife and mother I need to have a minute with this.
Women aren't saints. 
I suppose that I will make myself further controversial by writing that I do not believe that most 'sexually-aggressive' women are so because they want sex. I will put forward that _usually_ women who are sexually aggressive are coming from a place of insecurity. Love/acceptance/wholeness is what they want and trying to obtain these, through sex.

It is put forward often on TAM that men need sex; as food or water. I do not speak for all women, certainly. I have never listened to a woman speak about sex as a need; with the exception of diagnoses. 

I think that men and women want the same thing (love) and some have a different way of obtaining what they think they need. 
I have made posts that come off misandrist and some misogynist, I'm fair. Life isn't.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I am not saying whether I think you are right or you are wrong about this statement, but I will say that if it is true, you would not be able to guess that by reading the threads here.
> 
> I don't know if I have seen one thread by a woman warning other women of what to watch out for and what to avoid in men as a defensive posture against a man's potential for cheating in the future.
> 
> ...


I believe that in regards to cheating and sex, for that matter, men have a lot bigger ego component and that makes some of them react more possessively. I think they're more worried about other people considering them a failure and that more of them want people to think they are wildly successful in bed and that sort of thing.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I believe that in regards to cheating and sex, for that matter, men have a lot bigger ego component and that makes some of them react more possessively. I think they're more worried about other people considering them a failure and that more of them want people to think they are wildly successful in bed and that sort of thing.


There may be some truth in that but that is making it sound like a character issue on behalf of the man. 

We need to recognize that men have some real world concerns in regards to being cuckolded and raising offspring not their own. And as mentioned above, a woman could step out at any moment and come back in a matter of minutes later carrying another man's offspring and noone would be any the wiser. For that men probably do carry a bit of extra instinctive concern. 

No matter how much a man screws around, he will never come home carrying another woman's child and try to pass it off as the BW's and have her raise it as her own.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> There may be some truth in that but that is making it sound like a character issue on behalf of the man.
> 
> We need to recognize that men have some real world concerns in regards to being cuckolded and raising offspring not their own. And as mentioned above, a woman could step out at any moment and come back in a matter of minutes later carrying another man's offspring and noone would be any the wiser. For that men probably do carry a bit of extra instinctive concern.
> 
> No matter how much a man screws around, he will never come home carrying another woman's child and try to pass it off as the BW's and have her raise it as her own.


There have been plenty who have gone off and made babies elsewhere and brought them home eventually though. I think the end result is about the same.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There have been plenty who have gone off and made babies elsewhere and brought them home eventually though. I think the end result is about the same.


No where near the same. 

A WH may father another child that he may end up having to pay some kind of support on that effects the marital finances which may make the BW mad, but no woman will ever be duped into raising another woman's child that she believes is her own due to a cheating spouse.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> No where near the same.
> 
> A WH may father another child that he may end up having to pay some kind of support on that effects the marital finances which may make the BW mad, but no woman will ever be duped into raising another woman's child that she believes is her own due to a cheating spouse.


Oh I think that depends on your definition of duped. There are quite a few women who get into a relationship with a guy only to find out later that he has fathered other children and not bothered to tell her. I think that's a duped. Especially if he hasn't been contributing to the children's welfare. Then the woman he's with has the realization he's not really going to be responsible.

And then eventually the state catches up with him and takes any income he might have and these days women will insist upon them also taking custody of the child part of the time. So all of a sudden whoever he's with does have strange children in the house. 

I don't really see one as being worse than the other but just that they are both heinous if kept secret. I believe there are more men who are baby daddies and keep that quiet then there are women who actually try to dupe a man into believing the child is his.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I think men and women hit on people differently. So this is why women may not vocalise their fears and take precautions as such?

For example, women are pretty bold when they hit on my husband or other husbands, and it’s really obvious. 

I’ve had two occasions where a woman has gotten very close, either sitting right next to him or batting eyelids in his face. And on both occasions, they outright tried to find a way to suggest exchanging numbers. That’s with me being close to him physically as well, and it being obvious we’re a couple. They tend to go in quick and we deal with it fast. I don’t tend to do much to prevent him from being alone with women or escort him anywhere.

Sadly for many women we need to accept that at some point you can’t compete with younger prettier healthier etc. And if she’s that bold, and can lure him away, we heartbreakingly can’t do much. I do know some possessive women who drive themselves crazy trying to prevent any other female contact. It’s very sad. (I will point out though, the more possessive women are often the ones who are doing what they’re trying to prevent 😉)

When men try to cheat, they creep up slowly and go sideways. No man would ever come physically close to me to try and talk with my husband around. They tend to find a moment to be helpful and curious and talkative as soon as there may be a physical distance. From women I know, it seems to be the case that men can hover for months without making it very obvious, and they are far more secretive. At that point, if she’s talking about it to female friends she’s already in trouble. She’s asking if he’s into her. Yes he is; stop now. 

Perhaps this is nature? Men have to worry about being beaten to a pulp by someone’s husband? So I can understand why men need to warn women and be extra careful here, because men really do seduce in slower more subtle ways. I suppose a long-term approach can be very alluring to a woman? Think of the great romance novels and Rom coms. Part of the thrill is, ‘does this mean he likes me?’ 

My husband is extremely, shockingly possessive and has forbidden any interactions with men beyond what needs to be done socially when we’re together. He goes to great lengths to instil many preventative measures. While I wish he wouldn’t take it to those extremes - I have no desire to even be friends with other men - I’m also grateful for the insight into male behaviour.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

I don't pine for any of my exes nor would I consider ever having sex with any of them so I may not be your target female demographic here.

The only kind of womanly advice I've ever seen around cheating is of the "don't let yourself go" variety. Keep your looks and your man won't stray sort of thing.

The only place I've ever heard of numbers of prior partners being an issue is on internet forums with (surprise!) male posters. I've never actually had any partner or prospective partner ask. I'm up the creek if one ever does because no one told me I had to keep a tally so I didn't.

I've known (and heard of) insecure and jealous woman who pitch a fit when their man checks out another woman, or they perceive are acting too friendly with another woman. Or maybe there was some history there and the woman was on her guard against the slightest hint of a repetition. Who knows? Face slaps and drink-throwing used to be popular dramatic gestures in my day. 

I don't remember any girly talks about targeting men with low partner counts as mates. There was sort of general agreement about avoiding the known man-sluts because they were most likely to just use you for sex and dump you, not make a girlfriend of you. That's about it.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Corgi Mum said:


> I don't pine for any of my exes nor would I consider ever having sex with any of them so I may not be your target female demographic here.
> 
> The only kind of womanly advice I've ever seen around cheating is of the "don't let yourself go" variety. Keep your looks and your man won't stray sort of thing.
> 
> ...


True, we generally do advise not to be lazy at home and to put out… times haven’t changed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh I think that depends on your definition of duped. There are quite a few women who get into a relationship with a guy only to find out later that he has fathered other children and not bothered to tell her. I think that's a duped. Especially if he hasn't been contributing to the children's welfare. Then the woman he's with has the realization he's not really going to be responsible.
> 
> 
> I don't really see one as being worse than the other but just that they are both heinous if kept secret.


Are you serious??? 

You really don't think it's worse to cheat on someone, get knocked up by the AP then pass off the child as your partner's and have him invest his life, time, energy and money and heart and soul on some child that he believes is his own but someone elses, than finding out that a guy has child/children out there that is not being passed off as your own and for which you are being defrauded into raising thinking as your own? 

Unbelievable!


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Are you serious???
> 
> You really don't think it's worse to cheat on someone, get knocked up by the AP then pass off the child as your partner's and have him invest his life, time, energy and money and heart and soul on some child that he believes is his own but someone elses, than finding out that a guy has child/children out there that is not being passed off as your own and for which you are being defrauded into raising thinking as your own?
> 
> Unbelievable!


At least for myself, I know I would be more angry if I found out that I raised a child that wasn't mine, under the pretense that it was mine. 
I think for the equivalent to women, it would have to involve a lifetime of child support the husband was not telling the wife about. I could see a woman getting angry about secret payments like that.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Another aspect worth mentioning.....

You often hear how women "take back" men who have cheated on them....sometimes on multiple occasions...And in a lot of these cases, I have witnessed, things do kinda go back to normal...

Guys generally don't do this...Once another man has been in her, then that's it....its done...He'll likely never recover from it, not nearly to the point of taking her back...Of course, there are exceptions...but that seems to be the general rule anyway...

Why this is I really can't say for sure, but I have noticed that sometimes women see their husband or partner "all theirs" while the OW is just "a place for her husband to put his dyck"...These women are somehow more capable of compartmentalizing/rationalizing it...Even as recent as one generation ago, it was pretty much understood that most of the guys in my culture had both wives and gf's...and while the wives probably weren't crazy about it, it was kind of accepted...Some even joked that they liked it, that their husbands wouldn't bother them for it...lol..

Its not something I have a firm handle on, and as a person who is interested in how primal/innate behavior affects current humans, maybe women are ingrained to believe that they need to somehow accept that males are more inclined to need to spread seed??....I dunno...

Guys also tend to be more controlling(in general, anyway) than women are in relationships....Maybe this controlling behavior is why guys are more inclined to get nuts over it ...


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## Mystic Moon (6 mo ago)

I would only worry if he is acting suspicious. I've been cheated on by my ex, and know what to look out for. My ex was a text book cheater (more showers, unexplained late nights, random women calling, smelling perfume, weird credit card charges, new moves in bed, etc.) 

I have better things to do with my time than constantly wonder if my husband is straying. If I find out, there will be he** to pay for his betrayal, starting with a divorce. 

He has known since we started dating that cheating is the ultimate betrayal in my eyes. He should have left the marriage if he wanted strange. He knows that I will make the divorce hurt if he has lied to me, betrayed me, and put my life at risk by sleeping with me after he had an affair. 

So, he deserves what happens if he gets caught. He was warned, not only by me, but also by my ex. (With good reason. My ex was caught. I was mad. He slapped me and told me to "calm down" and that was probably the last thing he remembered.)


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

I often wondered about that. 

When I was working with XEROX, we had frequent training held on the other side of the country. I told my wife about the classmate who was pulling a train, about the UPS worker who did a very erotic dance in the bar, the Canadians acting like animals in heat.

I got into XEROX's ear that they were screwing up in how they were failing to train color printer systems analysts and that added another annual out of state training session; Chicago, Orlando, a location in the South that I cannot remember other than the cuisine.

Then a few days away with a female co worker for training.

My wife never made any comment that she was concerned. Dunno.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> No where near the same.
> 
> A WH may father another child that he may end up having to pay some kind of support on that effects the marital finances which may make the BW mad, but no woman will ever be duped into raising another woman's child that she believes is her own due to a cheating spouse.


Barking up a bark less tree with nothing in the branches either. At least as far as this topic is concerned.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> This is a spin off of the thread about women pining for their ex's and whether women will cheat with exes and such.
> 
> My question is do women go through all these mental exercises on how best to keep their men from cheating like a lot of the guys here seem to?
> 
> ...


I guess some do. I think in general women are well aware of who men are both the good and the bad.

Right now we have a generation of men who are starting to "de-angelify" women.

Western culture has for centuries had this myth that women were the fair species, they were more honest, kind, moral, demure, etc. This idea was pushed even more so since the Victorian Age.

Some of this was true but in the sense that before easy access to birth control the actual life changing danger probably kept a lot of women from pursuing some of the worst of their own nature. Not to mention the fact that they had no right to self determination or even their own bodies once they were married. Nor did they generally have access to creating personal wealth.

Those limitations no longer exist.  Now they are free to act like asshole in the same fashion men have since the dawn of time.

Then you have a generation of men who were raised by their Mothers (because their Fathers abandoned their responsibilities to them. One of which is to tell them the girls to pursue and the girls to have fun with.)

Let's just say their Mothers were biased about their own "brand" so to speak.

I think a lot of the stuff you pointed out is just a generation of Men coming to terms with reality, that women are no better or worst then men are. It's hard and very painful to give up your myths.

Again women had no myths anymore to lose. Western society has been pretty honest about what assholes men can be for generations now.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I guess some do. I think in general women are well aware of who men are both the good and the bad.
> 
> Right now we have a generation of men who are starting to de-angelify women.
> 
> ...


To be fair to at least some of those men, they didn't really abandon their kids but the system let unscrupulous ex wives drive them away.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

sokillme said:


> I think a lot of the stuff you pointed out is just a generation of Men coming to terms with reality, that women are no better or worst then Men are. It's hard and painful to give up your myths.


You have that right. I had a hard time giving up my myths. Even after several women shredded them.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> To be fair to at least some of those men, they didn't really abandon their kids but the system let unscrupulous ex wives drive them away.


Nothing on heaven or earth would keep me from my kid if I had one. Nope, your a ****ing Father find a way. Not saying that it might not be painful as hell but were men. It's the most important responsibility you will ever get in your life.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Julie's Husband said:


> You have that right. I had a hard time giving up my myths. Even after several women shredded them.


It was same for me but it only took one, and I had a mother and sisters who told me lots of women were crap. Warned me and everything.

Lets be honest we hold on to some of those myths because the alternative is scary.

I am under no illusion that I may even be wrong about my wife one day. She is just a living and breathing human being.

A much better strategy and one that I think would work better for a lot of these guys it to be a well rounded person. With some strong emotional friendships and things beside their relationship that brings them joy.

Then it's not so scary if you bump into a looser because your mate isn't your entire life.

Also marry someone who makes as much money as you do and is comparable in ambition so that if you do divorce you don't have to support them. Hell with the way things are going in the next generation men are going to be getting the alimony anyway.

Beside - sex robots, A.I., genetic engineering and the artificial womb are going to change all this anyway. 

Basically we are going to be licensing our genes from others for some service to grow us a baby in a lab, disease and cancer free. Then we will be taking it home to our A.I. perfect spouses, while we have sex with our robots like playing with the x-box. Both men and women will be doing that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Nothing on heaven or earth would keep me from my kid if I had one. Nope, your a ****ing Father find a way. Not saying that it might not be painful as hell but were men. It's the most important responsibility you will ever get in your life.


Try that from jail after being falsely accused with no evidence and a biased system. Other than that, I absolutely feel the same way. Nothing but death could separate me from my children.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

sokillme said:


> Nothing on heaven or earth would keep me from my kid if I had one. Nope, your a ****ing Father find a way. Not saying that it might not be painful as hell but were men. It's the most important responsibility you will ever get in your life.


Not every man has the financial wherewithal to fight the system when it turns against them. Sometimes the best a man can do is write a letter and copy it, to store, so that if his son or daughter should eventually look him him, he can show all the times that he tried to contact them, in hopes he can have a relationship with them when they can make that decision for themselves. .


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Try that from jail after being falsely accused with no evidence and a biased system. Other than that, I absolutely feel the same way. Nothing but death could separate me from my children.


So in the very rare situation that you describe then yes. You know and I do that most of these guys are just lazy, hooked on drugs or selfish. That's the most common reason. 

Again I am not saying there were not some guys who got screwed but even if the mom is Satan that still no excuse not to try to have as much influence as possible. Actually it's more reason to do just that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

UAArchangel said:


> Not every man has the financial wherewithal to fight the system when it turns against them. Sometimes the best a man can do is write a letter and copy it, to store, so that if his son or daughter should eventually look him him, he can show all the times that he tried to contact them, in hopes he can have a relationship with them when they can make that decision for themselves. .


And in those cases I wouldn't discount that they can have influence later on.

Honestly I get tired of this kind of argument. It sure as hell isn't pro men. The vast majority of those guys are just deadbeats.

Putting those guys with guys like your hypothetical is an insult to us good ones.

It's like the bad cops, every bad cop that the good cop defends just ends causing the good cop a bunch of ****.

Defending deadbeats like these guys doesn't help men it hurts us. We should be calling them on their crap. Frankly I am sick and tired if having to paying for their kids with my taxes because they won't. And their asshole kids growing up and once again I have to pay for them because they are in jail or robbing my house. Or ****ing up some movie franchise I once loved.

There is a whole generation of men who failed their kids, and look where we are.

**** those guys.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> So in the very rare situation that you describe then yes. You know and I do that most of these guys are just lazy, hooked on drugs or selfish. That's the most common reason.
> 
> Again I am not saying there were not some guys who got screwed but even if the mom is Satan that still no excuse not to try to have as much influence as possible. Actually it's more reason to do just that.


I've seen quite a few cases where the system was used to really destroy the relationship with the father and keep him at a distance. Not that rare. False abuse allegations are very common.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> And in those cases I wouldn't discount that they can have influence later on.
> 
> Honestly I get tired of this kind of argument. It sure as hell isn't pro men. Most of those guys are just deadbeats.
> 
> ...


You are labeling far too many as deadbeats. I'm not defending those and neither was this poster.

Don't make me post some TED talks and other videos about this! LoL!


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

sokillme said:


> And in those cases I wouldn't discount that they can have influence later on.
> 
> Honestly I get tired of this kind of argument. It sure as hell isn't pro men. Most of those guys are just deadbeats.
> 
> ...


So, in your mind, a man can batter down the door of the ex-wife and demand to see his kids? Great. I think that is a recipe for going to jail. Do you know any lawyer that will work for free for the men who don't earn a lot of money, so they can see their kids? My brother is having trouble seeing his kids. He has to keep a lawyer on a retainer forever to handle any difficulties with the ex-wife. How long do you think he can afford to keep that lawyer on retainer. What happens when he can no longer afford that lawyer? Should he go batter down her door so he can visit his children? What would you suggest he do when he uses up all his resources trying to keep a relationship with his children when the wife wants to move onto a new man?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Are you serious???
> 
> You really don't think it's worse to cheat on someone, get knocked up by the AP then pass off the child as your partner's and have him invest his life, time, energy and money and heart and soul on some child that he believes is his own but someone elses, than finding out that a guy has child/children out there that is not being passed off as your own and for which you are being defrauded into raising thinking as your own?
> 
> Unbelievable!


This^^^
The mental gymnastics to try to equate those two is an Olympic level of absurdity.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You are labeling far too many as deadbeats. I'm not defending those and neither was this poster.
> 
> Don't make me post some TED talks and other videos about this! LoL!


Nope just calling them like I read them. Again I didn't say that there are not cases like you brought up and I have sympathy. I just don't think these situations are causing the problems, because just by the attempt means that eventually they will have relationships with their kids when they are older and can become examples. 


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMenOver30/comments/3am7k4


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> No matter how much a man screws around, he will never come home carrying another woman's child and try to pass it off as the BW's and have her raise it as her own.


It's only a matter of time with men 'getting pregnant' and 'having periods' and all.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

sokillme said:


> Nope just calling them like I read them. Again I didn't say that there are not cases like you brought up, just that they are the outlier.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMenOver30/comments/3am7k4


There is no question that absentee fathers are harmful to children, but how many of them were made to stay away vs how many voluntarily stayed away?
What are the stats of men who can't be bothered visiting their children vs mothers who throw up obstacles to making it happen?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Rubix Cubed said:


> It's only a matter of time with men 'getting pregnant' and 'having periods' and all.


Doesn't have to be the man getting pregnant.

An artificial womb successfully grew baby sheep — and humans could be next


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Nope just calling them like I read them. Again I didn't say that there are not cases like you brought up, just that they are the outlier.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMenOver30/comments/3am7k4


This doesn't actually prove what I'm referring to as an outlying problem.

There has been a significant number of fathers, who have been kept at a distance and alienated from their children by the system despite keeping up with their child support.

It's a real thing and I do agree that it's bad because kids need their fathers


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

UAArchangel said:


> There is no question that absentee fathers are harmful to children, but how many of them were made to stay away vs how many voluntarily stayed away?
> What are the stats of men who can't be bothered visiting their children vs mothers who throw up obstacles to making it happen?


This thread kinda proves my point. 

I specifically bring up guys who abandoned their sons. Immediately you guys start white knighting those guys by bring up other guys who by definition of their actions didn't do that and therefore don't fit my definition.
*
I'M NOT ****ING TALKING ABOUT THOSE GUYS.*

Your brother's kid has a Father who obviously gives a **** so he has a chance. Most of these young men did not, and that is a problem. If they did they wouldn't be as screwed up as they are.

You need to stop using good men to make excuses for the bad ones. 

I mean are you saying dead beat Dads don't exist? 

What your opinion on them, specifically the ones who refuse to pay for them, and never see them?

I'm sorry where I come from men don't make excuses or use false equivalences, we hold each other accountable. If we did that in a generation the world would be a hell of a lot better.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> This doesn't actually prove what I'm referring to as an outlying problem.
> 
> There has been a significant number of fathers, who have been kept at a distance and alienated from their children by the system despite keeping up with their child support.
> 
> It's a real thing and I do agree that it's bad because kids need their fathers


Yeah but I wasn't talking about them. You brought them up. 

Is your contention that most men don't see their kids because they are prevented to be able to see them by their mothers and the courts?

What's your feeling about the guys who just don't give a ****?


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

sokillme said:


> This thread kinda proves my point.
> 
> I specifically bring up guys who abandoned their sons. Immediately you guys start white knighting those guys by bring up other guys who by definition of their actions didn't do that and therefore don't fit my definition.
> 
> ...


Do you have the stats on the ratio between men who voluntarily abandon their children and those who have been systematically removed? I've been looking for that and I can't find anything reliable to that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

UAArchangel said:


> Do you have the stats on the ratio between men who voluntarily abandon their children and those who have been systematically removed? I've been looking for that and I can't find anything reliable to that.


I really don't care and never brought that up. I wasn't talking about those guys because the guys who do that aren't part of the problem. It's the sons who have no father and know their entire life that there father didn't care. 

Men need Fathers, even if they are only allowed to be with them when they are adults. My Dad didn't stop being an influence on my life when I turned 18. He continued to help me for decades. I met my wife's Father around the time we started dating in my late 20s. I learned more about money from him, and he came from nothing and worked 2 blue collar jobs.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

sokillme said:


> I really don't care and never brought that up. I wasn't talking about those guys because the guys who do that aren't part of the problem. It's the sons who have no father and know their entire life that there father didn't care.
> 
> Men need Fathers, even if they are only allowed to be with them when they are adults. My Dad didn't stop being an influence on my life when I turned 18. He continued to help me for decades. I met my wife's Father around the time we started dating in my late 20s. I learned more about money from him, and he came from nothing and worked 2 blue collar jobs.


I get the impulse. During my separation years ago I considered how XH wasn't a good role model because he cheated. In the end though, unless they are abusive, fathers are important to a kids development. I am thankful to have my son's dad in his life still. He was quite flawed as a husband but does his best as a dad to love and care for his son. He and I don't see eye to eye on many things but I do believe he wants the best for his son even if he has qualities that would make for a tougher time if he was responsible for my son getting somewhere on time, like school. Would my life be easier without XH in my son's life? Maybe but it's not about what is best for me. It's about what is best for our son. We mostly agree on issues related to my son and when he remembers, he will attend meetings about our son's medical condition and stuff with me. Ironically he originally requested way more custody days, we met at a number we both could live with, and he has since reduced that. I think our son benefits from spending time with him even if he is not perfect. As a teacher I have seen how damaging divorce can be to a child. The kids whose parents are divorced seem to cope best when the parents are civil and work together.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> This is a spin off of the thread about women pining for their ex's and whether women will cheat with exes and such.
> 
> My question is do women go through all these mental exercises on how best to keep their men from cheating like a lot of the guys here seem to?
> 
> ...





DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh I think that depends on your definition of duped. There are quite a few women who get into a relationship with a guy only to find out later that he has fathered other children and not bothered to tell her. I think that's a duped. Especially if he hasn't been contributing to the children's welfare. Then the woman he's with has the realization he's not really going to be responsible.
> 
> And then eventually the state catches up with him and takes any income he might have and these days women will insist upon them also taking custody of the child part of the time. So all of a sudden whoever he's with does have strange children in the house.
> 
> I don't really see one as being worse than the other but just that they are both heinous if kept secret. I believe there are more men who are baby daddies and keep that quiet then there are women who actually try to dupe a man into believing the child is his.


The only way to come close to the scenario would be to have a woman go through IVF and be implanted with hubby's and his APs embryo. She carries their child and finds out later that it never was hers, she was just a surrogate.


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## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

Women are not men. Men are not women. The sooner you realize that for yourself, the sooner the world starts to make a lot more sense.

Trying to force us all to follow the same mores, "what's good for the goose" logic, is completely ridiculous and destroys more families than any other cause. The mentality is more damaging than domestic violence, rape, incest, or any of a myriad of terrible things. It is incompatible with reality and without exception destroys the practitioner.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I am not saying whether I think you are right or you are wrong about this statement, but I will say that if it is true, you would not be able to guess that by reading the threads here.
> 
> I don't know if I have seen one thread by a woman warning other women of what to watch out for and what to avoid in men as a defensive posture against a man's potential for cheating in the future.
> 
> ...


It may not happen on TAM. Don't have to, there are tons of articles on it in women's magazines. They read all about it. Had a friend in HS. He was a POS and cheater. Wife worked, he didn't. He would read her Cosmo when it came before her, he knew she was going to pull what ever crap was in it about how to control your man, etc. so when she tried it, it blew up in her face.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Don't know if this has been mentioned but one thing that I find curious is the fact that men seem so much more shocked when their woman cheats then the reverse. Historically it was socially acceptable for men to cheat as long as they took care of the family and women had to suck it up, so we're more used to the idea that many men cheat. 

Not that we're ok with it....I left my ex partially over it.....but we're not shocked by it. You'll still hear some women proclaim that "all men cheat" but I doubt a guy would say that all women cheat.

Men are in some ways still absorbing the fact that women cheat just as much. They always have but they had to hide it it because they had much more to lose. Now they do it openly, and they are more likely to leave.

And men have historically obsessed over controlling women. Don't get me wrong..
.women would control too if they could....it's just that we've never had the power to do it. Men always had most of the power.


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## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned but one thing that I find curious is the fact that men seem so much more shocked when their woman cheats then the reverse. Historically it was socially acceptable for men to cheat as long as they took care of the family and women had to suck it up, so we're more used to the idea that many men cheat.
> 
> Not that we're ok with it....I left my ex partially over it.....but we're not shocked by it. You'll still hear some women proclaim that "all men cheat" but I doubt a guy would say that all women cheat.
> 
> ...


I think you see the patterns, but are missing a critical part of the story: nature. Male cheating being less offensive than the reverse is not a social construct, but a biological one.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Frithy said:


> I think you see the patterns, but are missing a critical part of the story: nature. Male cheating being less offensive than the reverse is not a social construct, but a biological one.


We'll have to disagree it being less offensive.

And it absolutely does have a social element. You think anyone cared if a queen had lovers on the side? Rich women cheated all the time. Whoever had the power could do what they wanted.


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## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> We'll have to disagree it being less offensive.
> 
> And it absolutely does have a social element. You think anyone cared if a queen had lovers on the side? Rich women cheated all the time. Whoever had the power could do what they wanted.


I think throughout most history, yes, people cared when a queen was promiscuous. In-fact, if I remember correctly, that was a common refrain in trying to discredit a rival on the thrown. Calling a king a cuckhold was a way to discredit his rule and calling the rare female monarch promiscuous was a way to discredit hers. Female promiscuity has always been frowned upon. It's common sense.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm not a woman - lol - but, if you worry about your partner cheating, you are with the wrong person.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

When I think about the OP's post I want to believe that a man's number of partners doesn't influence him. But I think it can depending on the individual. Just my opinion, but if you take a man that got laid like tile when he was younger, I don't think most of those guys stay that way. I think its a phase for the most part ,and the thought of being with one person eventually becomes more appealing to them than a promiscuous lifestyle. On the flip side if you take a guy that wasn't able to get female attention when younger, and his situation changes later in life, I do think he would be more susceptible to it. This is of course just my opinion.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned but one thing that I find curious is the fact that men seem so much more shocked when their woman cheats then the reverse. Historically it was socially acceptable for men to cheat as long as they took care of the family and women had to suck it up, so we're more used to the idea that many men cheat.
> 
> Not that we're ok with it....I left my ex partially over it.....but we're not shocked by it. You'll still hear some women proclaim that "all men cheat" but I doubt a guy would say that all women cheat.
> 
> Men are in some ways still absorbing the fact that women cheat just as much. They always have but they had to hide it it because they had much more to lose. Now they do it openly, and they are more likely to leave.


I think one of the things that can contribute to the shock factor is a lot of the WWs were probably seemingly asexual at home with BH for a long time if not even the entire length of their relationship before discovering that she was very sexual with someone else. 

If she was always rejecting him and keeping him at arm's length and acting all indignant any time something sexual was ever mentioned and she appeared to be completely uninterested in anything sexual, then yes it is going to be a shock to his system when he finds out she has been having wild monkey sex and and a sexual dynamo with Sven From Yoga. 

Conversely, if a guy is always trying to get into his partner's knickers and is always acting like a horndog and whining and moaning that he is never getting any, she may be mad, but it isn't going to shock her to her core when she finds out he is getting it down the street.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

sokillme said:


> It was same for me but it only took one, and I had a mother and sisters who told me lots of women were crap. Warned me and everything.
> 
> Lets be honest we hold on to some of those myths because the alternative is scary.
> 
> ...


Well have you seen this Cylon women.....


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Frithy said:


> I think throughout most history, yes, people cared when a queen was promiscuous. In-fact, if I remember correctly, that was a common refrain in trying to discredit a rival on the thrown. Calling a king a cuckhold was a way to discredit his rule and calling the rare female monarch promiscuous was a way to discredit hers. Female promiscuity has always been frowned upon. It's common sense.


No. You're speaking of a queen where there's a King with the real power.....once again the guy with the power.

Women who were rich and powerful of their own accord did what they wanted.

Your argument strikes me as red pillish, but you're entitled to your opinion.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I think one of the things that can contribute to the shock factor is a lot of the WWs were probably seemingly asexual at home with BH for a long time if not even the entire length of their relationship before discovering that she was very sexual with someone else.
> 
> If she was always rejecting him and keeping him at arm's length and acting all indignant any time something sexual was ever mentioned and she appeared to be completely uninterested in anything sexual, then yes it is going to be a shock to his system when he finds out she has been having wild monkey sex and and a sexual dynamo with Sven From Yoga.
> 
> Conversely, if a guy is always trying to get into his partner's knickers and is always acting like a horndog and whining and moaning that he is never getting any, she may be mad, but it isn't going to shock her to her core when she finds out he is getting it down the street.


That's fair. We've addressed the fact that few women are asexual many times here on TAM.....she's just asexual with her hb for whatever reason. 

I will be the first to admit that my sex drive is directly proportional to what I think of my options. Fortunately I find my current guy a very appealing option so he gets a lot.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> I will be the first to admit that my sex drive is directly proportional to what I think of my options. Fortunately I find my current guy a very appealing option so he gets a lot.


Even that statement is kind of strange. I would hope that you (or anyone) would not be with someone that you did not find appealing in the first place........ but I know that exists in the world unfortunately 😞


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> You will even hear stories of older women, even grannies, that are still getting hit on...Even the homeliest of women are getting hit on, maybe not to the same level, but still..Now just imagine, as a guy, if you had numerous options coming to you on a daily basis?? At that point no guy would be loyal..lol...
> 
> Now...for men its dramatically different....A good percentage of men, report NEVER getting hit on....Like in their entire lives...Even good looking guys don't get hit on "regularly"...unless they are superstars or something...It just doesn't really happen...not nearly to the same degree as most women report


I agree that cheating is a game of opportunity but disagree that homely women and grannies are getting hit on at all, much less at rates higher than the average younger (21-40) year old guy. That's just not true. Young and/or attractive women? Yes! Homely or older women? No!

Reference.... Personal experience. I'm an average looking, middle aged, woman living in the trenches of single life over 40. If I don't hunt, I don't eat, and I'm not unique in my experience. 

I absolutely hate online dating but in today's modern world, it's been the greatest invention for men looking to cheat. Numerous options just a swipe away. All that's needed is a decent profile and to be good at lying. There's also the sugaring dating apps that are perfect for the older man of means to keep a sexy young mistress.

We're living in the age of equal opportunity.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Yeah but I wasn't talking about them. You brought them up.
> 
> Is your contention that most men don't see their kids because they are prevented to be able to see them by their mothers and the courts?
> 
> What's your feeling about the guys who just don't give a ****?


You and I don't disagree on anything besides numbers.

I've got a mile of old school justice for deadbeat dads.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Even that statement is kind of strange. I would hope that you (or anyone) would not be with someone that you did not find appealing in the first place........ but I know that exists in the world unfortunately 😞


I think you read too much into it. I wouldn't be with someone I didn't find appealing
...my point was that I don't walk around thinking about sex unless I have someone appealing as an option.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Lila said:


> I agree that cheating is a game of opportunity but disagree that homely women and grannies are getting hit on at all, much less at rates higher than the average younger (21-40) year old guy. That's just not true. Young and/or attractive women? Yes! Homely or older women? No!
> 
> Reference.... Personal experience. I'm an average looking, middle aged, woman living in the trenches of single life over 40. If I don't hunt, I don't eat, and I'm not unique in my experience.
> 
> ...


Eh...I dunno...

My own mother has told us that until she got to a point where she doesn't leave the house much, she had interest from men ..which was in her 70's...I mean, sure, its not like its every day, but she would tell me that guys she'd do business with would occasionally ask her to go for drinks....she doesn't even drink...lol..

Also, guys often hit on homely women because they think they are easy marks...I see guys do this all the time..Even a guy that I had a meeting with recently at the diner spent the whole meal hitting on the waitress, who was a 3 at best ...Its a sad game, but a lot of guys do it...

If you personally aren't getting hit on, its probably something to do with some invisible stop sign you have over your head....A lot of women, even drop dead gorgeous women have this aspect, and they wonder why they get no attention...Don't take it as a slight, this "unapproachability" has nothing to do with what type of woman you are, you seem pretty awesome, but maybe that's it? 

If you are a woman, and show even the slightest bit of openness or playfulness, then guys will take a shot at you...Heck, just a nice pair of tits and the right top will usually do it for most women...

Guys can't play in that sandbox.....no way....There are a lot of guys that have gone their entire lives without ever getting hit on, and the only way they ever got any woman is to be rejected a thousand times until one woman realized her options weren't there anymore, so better to latch onto anything...


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> I agree that cheating is a game of opportunity but disagree that homely women and grannies are getting hit on at all, much less at rates higher than the average younger (21-40) year old guy. That's just not true. Young and/or attractive women? Yes! Homely or older women? No!
> 
> Reference.... Personal experience. I'm an average looking, middle aged, woman living in the trenches of single life over 40. If I don't hunt, I don't eat, and I'm not unique in my experience.
> 
> ...


It's NOT equal opportunity at all. The old, fat, wrinkled woman still has more SEXUAL opportunities thn the average and especially below average males. 

Now when it comes to marriage and relationships and home and family etc etc then things shift, but in terms of sex, no, the vagina owners will always have the corner of that market LOL 

And I will also add that I think the what you said about online cheating that it is the opposite that is what is actually true in that the online world is actually the greatest invention for FEMALE cheating. 

In days of yore, women had to be extremely subtle and clandestine in their signaling that they were interested in a tryst. And since everything was being done face to face, one wrong slip up and she could be anything from divorced to banished from the community to actually doused with gas and set on fire. 

Today she could literally download an app to her phone, swipe right on some guy with abz and chiseled jalline and have him book a room at the No Tell Motel within an hour and then be back home fixing supper before anyone even knew she was out of the house or notice she was a little late getting home from the office. 

Men still have to go through a lot of hoops and hurdles and still have to put in the work and the reps and even then, only the top tiers of men will even be able to cheat. A pretty significant percentage of men will not be able to get ANY women let along getting any extra on the side. 

A percentage ,I am guessing around the lower quarter of men will go through their entire lives with never having any kind of regular sex life. Maybe a drunken hook up here or a prostitute there and maybe some kind of morbidly obese chick in his video game club once in a great while, but nothing on any kind of regular basis throughout their entire lives. 

There's quite a few of them out there. They are just completely invisible to women so you don't actually see or acknowledge them. The ones that are seen are the guys that are making the headlines with the mistresses and the sugar babies etc.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Just look at some of these TikTok videos...

You got 200 lb trashy women, taking a 30 second video of themselves walking around their dirty kitchen with a t shirt and no bra and she has literally thousands of likes/responses.. No "regular": guy could dream of that....Now extrapolate that to real life...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> Just look at some of these TikTok videos...
> 
> You got 200 lb trashy women, taking a 30 second video of themselves walking around their dirty kitchen with a t shirt and no bra and she has literally thousands of likes/responses.. No "regular": guy could dream of that....Now extrapolate that to real life...


I don't think it works as good in real life though.😂


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> Eh...I dunno...
> 
> My own mother has told us that until she got to a point where she doesn't leave the house much, she had interest from men ..which was in her 70's...I mean, sure, its not like its every day, but she would tell me that guys she'd do business with would occasionally ask her to go for drinks....she doesn't even drink...lol..


I need to find out what she's doing. 😁



> Also, guys often hit on homely women because they think they are easy marks...I see guys do this all the time..Even a guy that I had a meeting with recently at the diner spent the whole meal hitting on the waitress, who was a 3 at best ...Its a sad game, but a lot of guys do it...


Okay this i can agree with you. Most men have zero standards when it comes to sex. This is why it's important for women to be self aware and recognize when they are being played for sex. 



> If you personally aren't getting hit on, its probably something to do with some invisible stop sign you have over your head....A lot of women, even drop dead gorgeous women have this aspect, and they wonder why they get no attention...Don't take it as a slight, this "unapproachability" has nothing to do with what type of woman you are, you seem pretty awesome, but maybe that's it?


I think I give off the "friend" vibe. I also live in a tough market. Lots of beautiful women and women outnumber men. My friends are all attractive so when I was single and went out with them, I was the least attractive in the pack lol. That's fine. I like observing people.



> If you are a woman, and show even the slightest bit of openness or playfulness, then guys will take a shot at you...Heck, just a nice pair of tits and the right top will usually do it for most women...


Yeah but of what you mentioned above is true, and most men have no standards, how is a woman supposed to take any man who shoots his shot seriously? 




> Guys can't play in that sandbox.....no way....There are a lot of guys that have gone their entire lives without ever getting hit on, and the only way they ever got any woman is to be rejected a thousand times until one woman realized her options weren't there anymore, so better to latch onto anything...


I think there are women who fall into that category as well. You'd be surprised.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

sokillme said:


> And in those cases I wouldn't discount that they can have influence later on.
> 
> Honestly I get tired of this kind of argument. It sure as hell isn't pro men. The vast majority of those guys are just deadbeats.
> 
> ...


The voice of reason.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If you trust a person then don't worry.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

sokillme said:


> So in the very rare situation that you describe then yes. You know and I do that most of these guys are just lazy, hooked on drugs or selfish. That's the most common reason.
> 
> Again I am not saying there were not some guys who got screwed but even if the mom is Satan that still no excuse not to try to have as much influence as possible. Actually it's more reason to do just that.


Just this year I know a father who deliberately opted not to have visitation with his daughter even though the mother wanted him to have any type of visitation he wanted just so the daughter wouldn't grow up feeling abandoned like the mother did. But no, he couldn't be bothered.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> It's NOT equal opportunity at all. The old, fat, wrinkled woman still has more SEXUAL opportunities thn the average and especially below average males.


As I said earlier, I'm living in the trenches and my experiences are not reflective of your opinions.



> Now when it comes to marriage and relationships and home and family etc etc then things shift, but in terms of sex, no, the vagina owners will always have the corner of that market LOL


See my comment to @hamadryad about standards. 



> And I will also add that I think the what you said about online cheating that it is the opposite that is what is actually true in that the online world is actually the greatest invention for FEMALE cheating.
> 
> In days of yore, women had to be extremely subtle and clandestine in their signaling that they were interested in a tryst. And since everything was being done face to face, one wrong slip up and she could be anything from divorced to banished from the community to actually doused with gas and set on fire.
> 
> Today she could literally download an app to her phone, swipe right on some guy with abz and chiseled jalline and have him book a room at the No Tell Motel within an hour and then be back home fixing supper before anyone even knew she was out of the house or notice she was a little late getting home from the office.


Have you done online dating in the last 2-5 years? Because if you haven't then what you describe is hearsay. 




> Men still have to go through a lot of hoops and hurdles and still have to put in the work and the reps and even then, only the top tiers of men will even be able to cheat. A pretty significant percentage of men will not be able to get ANY women let along getting any extra on the side.


Really? This is interesting considering many, many Betrayed Husband's complain that the other man was fat, old, broke, or some combination thereof. 



> A percentage ,I am guessing around the lower quarter of men will go through thier entire lives with never having any kind of regular sex life. Maybe a drunken hook up here or a prostitute there and maybe some kind of morbidly obese chick in his video game club once in a great while, but nothing on any kind of regular basis throughout their entire lives.
> 
> There's quite a few of them out there. They are just completely invisible to women so you don't actually see or acknowledge them. The ones that are seen are the guys that are making the headlines with the mistresses and the sugar babies etc.


Based on my experiences, I have to disagree with this.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

UAArchangel said:


> Do you have the stats on the ratio between men who voluntarily abandon their children and those who have been systematically removed? I've been looking for that and I can't find anything reliable to that.


That's because you're looking for a ghost.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Even that statement is kind of strange. I would hope that you (or anyone) would not be with someone that you did not find appealing in the first place........ but I know that exists in the world unfortunately 😞


The longer you know someone the better you know them and sometimes we get to know them better and lose respect for them, which can happen for any number of reasons. troubleshoot daily living issues.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> When I think about the OP's post I want to believe that a man's number of partners doesn't influence him. But I think it can depending on the individual. Just my opinion, but if you take a man that got laid like tile when he was younger, I don't think most of those guys stay that way. I think its a phase for the most part ,and the thought of being with one person eventually becomes more appealing to them than a promiscuous lifestyle. On the flip side if you take a guy that wasn't able to get female attention when younger, and his situation changes later in life, I do think he would be more susceptible to it. This is of course just my opinion.


I can't agree. I would say that a guy who has had multiple partners is less likely to be able to remain faithful to just one person. 
.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Just this year I know a father who deliberately opted not to have visitation with his daughter even though the mother wanted him to have any type of visitation he wanted just so the daughter wouldn't grow up feeling abandoned like the mother did. But no, he couldn't be bothered.


Nice anecdotal situation. Here's one back at you.

My son had to fight tooth and nail, spending on lawyers and fighting a very prejudiced state attorney, just to get to see his daughter. The mother was very happy to try to deny him access and had to literally be dragged into several court sessions and mitigations where she flat out lied, on record and fully discovered, to try and keep my son from his daughter.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> It's NOT equal opportunity at all. The old, fat, wrinkled woman still has more SEXUAL opportunities thn the average and especially below average males.
> 
> Now when it comes to marriage and relationships and home and family etc etc then things shift, but in terms of sex, no, the vagina owners will always have the corner of that market LOL
> 
> ...


No matter how many times it's repeated, you guys always lose sight of the fact that women are much more picky about sexual partners than most men are. You seem to always assume that any opportunity is a viable opportunity for women and I don't know any women who are even remotely interested in most of the old F's who might come on to them. It's some men who are out looking for just sex and will F anything rather than nothing, not women. Men are the ones who are desperate for sex and because women are generally not desperate for sex, they don't think like men do.


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## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

85% of previously fat women that have a gastric bypass surgery leave their husbands within a year to explore their sexuality... yeah. So, please white knights and fair ladies, tell me how it could be. Tis a mystery unfathomable.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No matter how many times it's repeated, you guys always lose sight of the fact that women are much more picky about sexual partners than most men are. You seem to always assume that any opportunity is a viable opportunity for women and I don't know any women who are even remotely interested in most of the old F's who might come on to them. It's some men who are out looking for just sex and will F anything rather than nothing, not women. Men are the ones who are desperate for sex and because women are generally not desperate for sex, they don't think like men do.


What you are saying is technically true, but it doesn't negate the fact that women have WAY more opportunity,,,,period...what they want to do with that opportunity is obviously up to them, but many guys don't get any opportunity....so they don't even have the free will to be picky...

And while this may not be the case for you, I can tell you that a good percentage of women could be conned out of panties by smooth guys out there....I would never do it, but you see it happen all around...They can be picky all they want, some women lay down at the least bit of attention from a man...


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> What you are saying is technically true, but it doesn't negate the fact that women have WAY more opportunity,,,,period...what they want to do with that opportunity is obviously up to them, but many guys don't get any opportunity....so they don't even have the free will to be picky...
> 
> And while this may not be the case for you, I can tell you that a good percentage of women could be conned out of panties by smooth guys out there....I would never do it, but you see it happen all around...They can be picky all they want, some women lay down at the least bit of attention from a man...


To them if the man is unattractive to them, they do not count that as opportunity because they wouldn't do him under any circumstances anyway. Men have testosterone and women don't. To women, if there are no desirable candidates, then there are no viable opportunities because women simply aren't putting sex first like some but certainly not all men do.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Frithy said:


> 85% of previously fat women that have a gastric bypass surgery leave their husbands within a year to explore their sexuality... yeah. So, please white knights and fair ladies, tell me how it could be. Tis a mystery unfathomable.


92.3% of men who have gastric bypass surgery cheat on their spouse within the first 36 months after reaching goal weight. It is a mystery.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Nice anecdotal situation. Here's one back at you.
> 
> My son had to fight tooth and nail, spending on lawyers and fighting a very prejudiced state attorney, just to get to see his daughter. The mother was very happy to try to deny him access and had to literally be dragged into several court sessions and mitigations where she flat out lied, on record and fully discovered, to try and keep my son from his daughter.


P.S. my son's ex didn't have to spend a penny and was fully subsidized by the state.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Frithy said:


> 85% of previously fat women that have a gastric bypass surgery leave their husbands within a year to explore their sexuality... yeah. So, please white knights and fair ladies, tell me how it could be. Tis a mystery unfathomable.


Really?


Lila said:


> 92.3% of men who have gastric bypass surgery cheat on their spouse within the first 36 months after reaching goal weight. It is a mystery.


Really?

If this isn't just back and forth, this is astounding.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Really?
> 
> Really?
> 
> If this isn't just back and forth, this is astounding.


I thought we were all supposed to pull numbers out of our ass to back up whatever point we were trying to make? 😉😁 I can play that game too.


----------



## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> To them if the man is unattractive to them, they do not count that as opportunity because they wouldn't do him under any circumstances anyway. Men have testosterone and women don't. To women, if there are no desirable candidates, then there are no viable opportunities because women simply aren't putting sex first like some but certainly not all men do.


Listen, there is ALWAYS a desirable candidate. If there was only one man on earth and he looked like a man-sized maggot in a old stained wife beater, he'd be treated as one sexy beast. Women would be throwing themselves at him. Whatever the best option being presented to her, the woman will find him attractive. She may think all of the other guys are trash because that one guy is of a higher calibre, but once he's gone from the picture, she'll just shift down. Women aren't some magical perfect beings.



Lila said:


> 92.3% of men who have gastric bypass surgery cheat on their spouse within the first 36 months after reaching goal weight. It is a mystery.


My number is a fact, you can search it yourself.


----------



## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Really?
> 
> Really?
> 
> If this isn't just back and forth, this is astounding.


I read into it before, but you'll have to do the digging for details yourself. The details are shocking and the stories guys share are really sad.





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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> I thought we were all supposed to pull numbers out of our ass to back up whatever point we were trying to make? 😉😁 I can play that game too.


That was my initial impression but what do I know!🤣🤣🤣


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Frithy said:


> 85% of previously fat women that have a gastric bypass surgery leave their husbands within a year to explore their sexuality... yeah. So, please white knights and fair ladies, tell me how it could be. Tis a mystery unfathomable.


There isn’t any real mystery in that. People line up with there equals. ExFatty might have gone from a 3 to a 5 or 6. She leaves her fat 2 or 3 husband in the dust.

A lot of people get their feelings hurt but people and society are what they are. Some people both men and women will “level up” givin the opportunity. Dudes will nail the gal with big tits and the previous asexual wife will be a pro stripper with her new interest.

Take the genetics you have then do the hard work to improve the remainder. Constantly make yourself and better version than the week before. Life isn’t fair but complaining about the opposite sex will get you nowhere. Love them for their good parts and try to work around the bad.

White knights and fair ladies all have their place here and honestly if you take a big step back and look at humans and society as a whole their really isn’t much of an unfathomable mystery.

People with options….. have options. It’s that simple.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Well, I found some interesting research on gastric bypass surgery but is it a TJ?


----------



## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> This is a spin off of the thread about women pining for their ex's and whether women will cheat with exes and such.
> 
> My question is do women go through all these mental exercises on how best to keep their men from cheating like a lot of the guys here seem to?
> 
> ...


As much or more. Mostly more in my experience.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Well, I found some interesting research on gastric bypass surgery but is it a TJ?


Who cares … throw it out. I wanna hear it !!


----------



## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> There isn’t any real mystery in that. People line up with there equals. ExFatty might have gone from a 3 to a 5 or 6. She leaves her fat 2 or 3 husband in the dust.
> 
> A lot of people get their feelings hurt but people and society are what they are. Some people both men and women will “level up” givin the opportunity. Dudes will nail the gal with big tits and the previous asexual wife will be a pro stripper with her new interest.
> 
> ...


You have many valid points, but, still, men that undergo the surgery don't have a huge spike in divorce filings. I'm not saying men are great, far from it. I'm just saying women are just as bad in other ways. Men are lazy, women are duplicitous.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Frithy said:


> Listen, there is ALWAYS a desirable candidate. *If there was only one man on earth and he looked like a man-sized maggot in a old stained wife beater, he'd be treated as one sexy beast.* Women would be throwing themselves at him. Whatever the best option being presented to her, the woman will find him attractive. She may think all of the other guys are trash because that one guy is of a higher calibre, but once he's gone from the picture, she'll just shift down. Women aren't some magical perfect beings.
> 
> 
> My number is a fact, you can search it yourself.


No, he would not. You are just wrong. Men wish that, but it's not true. Women are not desperate for sex. Sex is not what drives women.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Frithy said:


> You have many valid points, but, still, men that undergo the surgery don't have a huge spike in divorce filings. I'm not saying men are great, far from it. I'm just saying women are just as bad in other ways. Men are lazy, women are duplicitous.


Most likely because he is “still fat on the inside” and doesn’t have what it takes to approach the ladies with confidence. On the other hand the ExFatty chick has the guys looking at her. The dynamics of the situation are different. Chicks are not eyeing up guys like guys do girls. ExFatty dude has to build his own confidence where as ExFatty chick gets externally validated.

We live in the animal kingdom… males chase and females choose. It is what it is.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, he would not. You are just wrong. Men wish that, but it's not true. Women are not desperate for sex. Sex is not what drives women.


You know you wanna see my big ….. wallet.

I know what drives women 😜


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> Who cares … throw it out. I wanna hear it !!


Ok, a study done with admittedly 79% women showed around twice the national average for relationship changes within five years of surgery.

Singles had a percentage boost of about double the national average to get married.

Married couples went from about a 4% chance of divorce to around 8%.

Most folks kept the status quo and the uptick in marriage and divorce can be more health centered than anything.

People who suddenly get more fit and healthy, kind of want to lead lifestyles promoting health and fitness where their partners sometimes don't.

A lot of really fat folks have a lot of mental and emotional problems that were poorly coped with as well and those problems are definitely going to be displayed in bold light when one partner gets healthy.

I'm not seeing a Machiavellian, female plot here with sinister wiminz getting healthy just to trade up.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Frithy said:


> 85% of previously fat women that have a gastric bypass surgery leave their husbands within a year to explore their sexuality... yeah. So, please white knights and fair ladies, tell me how it could be. Tis a mystery unfathomable.


If you read it on Reddit it must be true. 🙄


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Ok, a study done with admittedly 79% women showed around twice the national average for relationship changes within five years of surgery.
> 
> Singles had a percentage boost of about double the national average to get married.
> 
> ...


You are an “in the know” type guy with relationships so I suspect you didn’t find anything there that was surprising to you


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you read it on Reddit it must be true. 🙄


Chhhiiiiitttttt girl…… I saw that on TikToc yo !!!!


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> You are an “in the know” type guy with relationships so I suspect you didn’t find anything there that was surprising to you


Nope. There are a small percentage of people that are just opportunists and some are saints but most are in the middle somewhere and it's very reasonable to break it off with an unhealthy person that won't adapt and wants to bring you down with them and also holds onto unhealthy mental and/or emotional issues as well.

Someone motivated to get healthy and stay that way will be more motivated to leave a perpetually unhealthy mate.


----------



## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, he would not. You are just wrong. Men wish that, but it's not true. Women are not desperate for sex. Sex is not what drives women.


Why would men possibly wish that? If anything, men fear that not wish it. However, all creatures want to reproduce. Women aren't biologically suicidal.


ConanHub said:


> Ok, a study done with admittedly 79% women showed around twice the national average for relationship changes within five years of surgery.
> 
> Singles had a percentage boost of about double the national average to get married.
> 
> ...


You're misunderstanding what was written. It wasn't that married couples went from a 3.5% chance of divorce to an 8% chance, it was that the divorce rate went from 3.5% to 8%. That's a huge difference in meaning, it's not a percentage of married people; it's how many people in the group ended up divorced. For perspective, that 4% U.S. divorce rate translates to 50% of all marriages ending in divorce. The percentage of previously fat married women that left their husbands after the surgery was 85%. That's crazy stuff.


----------



## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you read it on Reddit it must be true. 🙄


I can't access Reddit where I live so I wouldn't know. However, what I posted can be readily found to be from a scientific journal. That's how I roll, science all the way.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Frithy said:


> Why would men possibly wish that?


For the same reason a lot of men's favorite pastime is watching gross old geezers have sex with hot bodies on porn. Wishful thinking.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Frithy said:


> Why would men possibly wish that? If anything, men fear that not wish it. However, all creatures want to reproduce. Women aren't biologically suicidal.
> 
> 
> You're misunderstanding what was written. It wasn't that married couples went from a 3.5% chance of divorce to an 8% chance, it was that the divorce rate went from 3.5% to 8%. That's a huge difference in meaning, it's not a percentage of married people; it's how many people in the group ended up divorced. For perspective, that 4% U.S. divorce rate translates to 50% of all marriages ending in divorce. The percentage of previously fat married women that left their husbands after the surgery was 85%. That's crazy stuff.


Oh, I didn't misunderstood the math at all.

The 4% statistic was an average for married couples within a five year period. That means, 96% of marriages within the same time period do not experience a divorce.

Even within the subgroup studied, most married people stayed married at least within the five year period.

Also, I'm really dubious about the 50% statistic altogether.


Now far more women in general are initiating divorces these days and the 85% statistic falls right in line with that but the one study I had time to review does not support an 85% divorce rate after gastric bypass surgery.

At least not for a five year timeline.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> For the same reason a lot of men's favorite pastime is watching gross old geezers have sex with hot bodies on porn. Wishful thinking.


Old geezers ??? Where did you get that notion?

You watching the wrong kind of porn 🙈


----------



## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

_reveiwing_ didn't finish reading the other user's post


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Frithy said:


> Listen, there is ALWAYS a desirable candidate. If there was only one man on earth and he looked like a man-sized maggot in a old stained wife beater, he'd be treated as one sexy beast. Women would be throwing themselves at him. Whatever the best option being presented to her, the woman will find him attractive. She may think all of the other guys are trash because that one guy is of a higher calibre, but once he's gone from the picture, she'll just shift down. Women aren't some magical perfect beings.
> 
> 
> My number is a fact, you can search it yourself.


You are so wrong about women throwing themselves at a man who looked like a maggot. In fact it's so wrong its laughable.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> You know you wanna see my big ….. wallet.
> 
> I know what drives women 😜


Nah, this is more what I look for:


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> You are so wrong about women throwing themselves at a man who looked like a maggot. In fact it's so wrong its laughable.


Or acted like a maggot.


----------



## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's because you're looking for a ghost.


I don't think so. You think every woman complies with court ordered custody? Many men have been locked out.
People who divorce want to move on from the exes and women are no different. As lomg as the ex is in their life, it's more difficult for women to find another man.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No matter how many times it's repeated, you guys always lose sight of the fact that women are much more picky about sexual partners than most men are. You seem to always assume that any opportunity is a viable opportunity for women and I don't know any women who are even remotely interested in most of the old F's who might come on to them. It's some men who are out looking for just sex and will F anything rather than nothing, not women. Men are the ones who are desperate for sex and because women are generally not desperate for sex, they don't think like men do.


I understand that women want nothing to do with most men.

But that is their choice. It is their choice to remain single/celibate if there aren’t any men that trips their trigger.

However they “can” have a sexual encounter or a sexual relationship if they so chose. 


But the point I was making is there is a number of men who CAN’T despite wanting to. They can’t because no one will have them. Not even the drunk fat chicks.

The women are still choosing to go without where as for those men, it is not by their own choice.

That’s how the term InCel was coined. Involuntary Celibate.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

UAArchangel said:


> I don't think so. You think every woman complies with court ordered custody? Many men have been locked out.
> People who divorce want to move on from the exes and women are no different. As lomg as the ex is in their life, it's more difficult for women to find another man.


And many men have kidnapped children just to try to control the ex too. What's your point? I already know there are criminals in the world, but I also know everyone has recourse. Someone hides your kids during your visitation time, you call police or your attorney. Duh. 

These days in the US, when anyone loses unsupervised custody of their kids, Number 1, that means that person has addiction problems or domestic violence problems or crimes against children problems, BUT they are still given steps to a road back to having custody IF they will follow the steps. They may only get supervised custody and that is appropriate under many circumstances. 

*The most frequently occurring reasons why a custodial parent loses custody include:*

Child abuse or neglect.
Spousal abuse.
Drug or alcohol abuse or addiction.
Alienation and false claims about noncustodial parent.
Violation of custody order or parenting time.
Significant health issue.





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The most common scenario I personally have seen for why men don't have 50/50 custody is because they didn't want to do 50 percent of the childcare. But 50/50 is the norm now in the US. Custody orders are no longer set up to only allocate the fathers fun weekend time like it was 40 years ago. They are now expected to have the kids half the time if they are competent to do so and to do everything that needs to be done for them during that time, doctor visits, take them to school, go talk to the principal, shop, cook, and clean, just like the mother does. So you get men who would rather just bow out. 

No spouse can "lock you out." Custody is determined legally and has legal remedies, so if you've let someone do that, that's on you. And how much could you have really cared if you then did nothing legal to remedy it?


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I understand that women want nothing to do with most men.
> 
> But that is their choice. It is their choice to remain single/celibate if there aren’t any men that trips their trigger.
> 
> ...


Well, that's the thing. A lot of the whiny men can't accept that some fat chicks also aren't going to be interested in them. Just because they're fat doesn't mean they don't have an operative brain and a sense of humor at least. 

I can't feel sorry for someone who is a slave to their penis, I'm sorry. Truth is they could probably find a partner if they weren't so unrealistic about it and weren't solely focused on sex and were at all interesting and had their lives together in general and had some aspiration besides sex. 

All levels of attraction have found partners if they have anything at all to offer, if they're not a whiny complainer but instead are entertaining and fun to be around and are competent to keep a roof over their heads. If you don't believe me, as I've said many times before, go to Walmart on a weekend. You will see all kinds there with their families. I don't know that there is a lid for every pot, as they say, because I think there are people who make themselves so obnoxious that no one wants to be around them. But I've even seen a couple of those married up.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Most guys couldn't do the custody thing because it's usually them making most or all of the money. You can't watch kids and earn enough to pay for everything. Someone has to work.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> Most guys couldn't do the custody thing because it's usually them making most or all of the money. You can't watch kids and earn enough to pay for everything. Someone has to work.


It's 50/50 here so that the women can also work and not find themselves on the street homeless once the kid turns 18 -- and because most women are working like men are anyway, here. They both have to work and they both have to figure it out how to take care of the kids when they have them. It's only fair. And the kid gets plenty of time with both of them.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

ReformedHubby said:


> When I think about the OP's post I want to believe that a man's number of partners doesn't influence him. But I think it can depending on the individual. Just my opinion, but if you take a man that got laid like tile when he was younger, I don't think most of those guys stay that way. I think its a phase for the most part ,and the thought of being with one person eventually becomes more appealing to them than a promiscuous lifestyle. *On the flip side if you take a guy that wasn't able to get female attention when younger, and his situation changes later in life, I do think he would be more susceptible to it. * This is of course just my opinion.


Based on my experience with a partner who had married his first girlfriend, often expressed the feeling that he missed out on all the sex other guys were getting in high school, and ended up cheating on me for the entire duration of our relationship... I have to agree with you there.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

Corgi Mum said:


> Based on my experience with a partner who had married his first girlfriend, often expressed the feeling that he missed out on all the sex other guys were getting in high school, and ended up cheating on me for the entire duration of our relationship... I have to agree with you there.


I find to be the case with many of the names on Epstein's list that they seemed to be the type of men who were incel in high school. It's basically a wound from childhood they are trying to compensate for.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Corgi Mum said:


> Based on my experience with a partner who had married his first girlfriend, often expressed the feeling that he missed out on all the sex other guys were getting in high school, and ended up cheating on me for the entire duration of our relationship... I have to agree with you there.


When I was in my late twenties a whole lot of my friends circle were divorcing because they married young and now had fully developed brains and were changing and wanted to reset.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

UAArchangel said:


> I find to be the case with many of the names on Epstein's list that they seemed to be the type of men who were incel in high school. It's basically a wound from childhood they are trying to compensate for.


Exactly. He had this impression that all the other teenage guys were having wild monkey sex constantly (which I seriously doubt) and he missed out on all that fun. Although from what he told me his social activity consisted of hanging out with other guys drinking (in homes, not bars) so I think he limited his own opportunities to a large extent.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Well the only thing I can add is this...

A guy will go thru dry spells trying to get laid.

That will NEVER happen to a woman. If she spreads her legs , someone will be there. 

It doesn't matter if she's tall , short , slim , over weight....Someone will do the deed.


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## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

Men only worry if she's a stupid 304 lol. Young guys date partying chick's that haven't learned boundaries or human nature yet. Most decent men with decent wives never worry lol, you must know a lot of incels


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Jimi007 said:


> Well the only thing I can add is this...
> 
> A guy will go thru dry spells trying to get laid.
> 
> ...


But you're missing the point. The point is she would rather not get laid than have sex with someone she's not attracted to.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But you're missing the point. The point is she would rather not get laid than have sex with someone she's not attracted to.


Women do this every day and twice on sunday...(have sex with guys they aren't particularly attracted to)...

Right of wrong, many women see sex as a form of currency...I am sure you already know this...That's just another thing as well...Most guys can't or don't use sex for currency...

A woman can decide to cheat on her husband with her boss, not because he's such a stud, but she knows there will be a lot of collateral perks by doing it...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> Women do this every day and twice on sunday...(have sex with guys they aren't particularly attracted to)...
> 
> Right of wrong, many women see sex as a form of currency...I am sure you already know this...That's just another thing as well...Most guys can't or don't use sex for currency...
> 
> A woman can decide to cheat on her husband with her boss, not because he's such a stud, but she knows there will be a lot of collateral perks by doing it...


I don't think you should compare sex workers to the female population at large.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't think you should compare sex workers to the female population at large.



Who said I was?

You think all those sexy women living in multi million dollar homes and driving Jags and Land Rovers in the pricey suburbs are with their dream sexual partner? Nope...well maybe some are, but a lot of them aren't...

You think that the woman that has a "buddy" that helps her out with projects and such that she fools around with on occasion is doing it because she loves the way he makes her feel sexually?

If you want to call them prostitutes be my guest, but that's not their intention...They are playing a game that has been played since the creation of time...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> Who said I was?
> 
> You think all those sexy women living in multi million dollar homes and driving Jags and Land Rovers in the pricey suburbs are with their dream sexual partner? Nope...well maybe some are, but a lot of them aren't...
> 
> ...


I think some of those exist and that they are low-level sex workers.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> Who said I was?
> 
> You think all those sexy women living in multi million dollar homes and driving Jags and Land Rovers in the pricey suburbs are with their dream sexual partner? Nope...well maybe some are, but a lot of them aren't...
> 
> ...


Some women are very fussy. No amount of money would make me want to have sex with a guy I wasn't attracted to.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Some women are very fussy. No amount of money would make me want to have sex with a guy I wasn't attracted to.


There is just a whole different mindset of sex workers and it usually starts with being sexualized as a child in some form or fashion and not learning any other way to get what they need..

But for sure if I was of a sex worker mindset I certainly would not marry a rich one and be stuck with that day in and day out. There are better ways to make money. I have to believe those women are just completely detached from their sexuality to be able to do that.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Men FOR SURE worry less about their women cheat on them than the amount of worrying women put on men being able to freely express their opinion. Otherwise you wouldn’t overdramatize every time a male has the AUDACITY to criticize a female and how she looks/sounds.

Something females do all the time by the way.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> This is a spin off of the thread about women pining for their ex's and whether women will cheat with exes and such.
> 
> My question is do women go through all these mental exercises on how best to keep their men from cheating like a lot of the guys here seem to?
> 
> ...


If their like this ex-spouse, your hoping they will cheat or catch me cheating.


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