# Am I taking this too far?



## Kite Weaver (Apr 27, 2011)

Hello All.

I am new here and I need advice. My fiancee and I met about 3 years ago and we have been engaged for about 2 years. We love each other, but this relationship is having tremendous emotional toll on us.

We fight all the time over issues I consider trivial. She takes offense very easily, reads meaning into things...I feel so emotionally drained every day just trying to resolve issues.

I think part of the problem is that my fiancee likes to have her way all the time. I am generally a laid back person and I rarely complain. I compromise all the time to please her, but I think she is now taking this too far.

We have always talked about having kids, I wanted 2 and she wanted a very big family like the one she grew up in. She also wanted to adopt kids. I suggested we have 2 kids and adopt 2.
She said she would think about it.

Recently, we got talking and she mentioned that she was not willing to compromise- she wants to have 2 kids and adopt up to 6! She said that had always being her dream and she will not be happy if she could not do that.

I am at crossroads here because although I love her, I just don't see myself raising 8 kids. I realize that parenting is serious business and I want to be able do other things with my life apart from raising kids. We both have professional careers.

This is a deal breaker for me, but I cant help wondering if I am making a mistake. I tried to make her see reason, but as usual she just wants her way. 

Please share your thoughts. Thank you


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## Snooring (Mar 10, 2011)

own kids and addiional 6 adopted kids = 8 kids??? 
Myself would not agree with this. In this generation 3 kids are enough for me. 

Does she work? does she knows is not all about having kids but also raising them, provide for them, tuition fees etc? 

This number of kids will be waay to much load for you guys and it will definetely affect your sex life in a future. 

It looks like you are a nice guy to provide everything no matter how hard is it 
You mentioned that: I quote
"problem is that my fiancee likes to have her way all the time. I am generally a laid back person and I rarely complain." This is not good. she has all control over you. Read the mannup manual. Do what you realy want to do. Learn to take control of your relationship before you get married otherwise do not get married.

You are not making mistake if you feel is a deal breaker and your woman only wants to have her way,This is a red flag.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The purpose of dating is to see if you are compatible for marriage.
Two people with such extremely opposed views on children and family should not get married. She also seems very selfish which is a recipe for disaster in marriage. If you go through with your marriage, thinmk about the 8 kids you will harm when you decide to leave. Let her find a man who wants to have 2 natural children and adopt 6.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Or you could marry her and after she sees how difficult it is to raise 1 child, she may indeed change her mind in regards to wanting 7 more. In all seriousness, he demands aren't realistic. First of all, i have close friends who are going through the adoption process, the chances of them allowing you to adopt 6 kids are slim to none, unless you last name is Pitt. The whole process sees how many kids you can afford to raise, so unless you guys are extremely wealthy, chances are that is not going to happen.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Kite Weaver said:


> Hello All.
> 
> I am new here and I need advice. My fiancee and I met about 3 years ago and we have been engaged for about 2 years. We love each other, but this relationship is having tremendous emotional toll on us.
> 
> ...


OMG...that would be a deal breaker for me for sure...I have 3 daughters ages 16, 11 and 10 and some days I feel like I am going nuts...no WAY could I deal with that many kids, what is she got some Jolie fantasy going?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Jon & Kate plus 8.


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## Kite Weaver (Apr 27, 2011)

Thanks for the advice guys.

@ snorring, Yes she works (univ. prof) I have made the same point you are making over and over... but she does not see reason. 

It is just not realistic, and more importantly, Its not what I want to do with my life. Initially I thought this was all a smoke screen for some other issues, but this is what she genuinely wants to do.
And its scares me. 

After the last time we spoke about this, she asked for time to make a decision. I love her, but maybe there is more to marriage than love.


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## AbsolutelyFree (Jan 28, 2011)

It's definitely good that you're having these discussions now instead of later on when you're already married and already have some kids.


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## stoomey74 (Sep 20, 2009)

I would think carefully, that is a lot of kids and it is a big issue. If she loves you then she should be willing to make a compromise, that is what marriage. She can't say I want 8 kids and you have to except it. It's wrong. What else is she not going to compromise with?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

KW,
The biggest red flag here is the general comment that she is unable to compromise. That right there will kill the chance for happiness in a marriage. The bit about family size is simply a symptom of the "me me me - and only me" disease. 

It takes a special "couple" to raise 8 kids. Emphasis on "couple" as it requires tremendous commitment by both parents to provide a positive environment for that many children. 

It also means that you are independently wealthy or agreeable to making major lifestyle sacrifices to provide for the kids. 

I actually think it is ok to marry accepting some level of uncertainty as to family size. I ALSO believe it is critical for both people to look each other in the eye and say: "I accept that we may have to compromise on this issue. And that neither of us can be certain how our feelings on this matter may change as our family grows. That said, I may be unwilling to have more than X children. If that is a show stopper for you, we should not marry". 

I think your fiancee is trying to accomplish two things:
1. Get you to agree to a very big family and
2. Get you to accept that your desires/preferences/needs are always going to get ignored when they conflict with what she wants

Read these boards. They are full of people full of "love for "who" they married, and miserable because of how that person treats them". 




Kite Weaver said:


> Thanks for the advice guys.
> 
> @ snorring, Yes she works (univ. prof) I have made the same point you are making over and over... but she does not see reason.
> 
> ...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If she's unwilling to compromise on that issue, what other issues would she not compromise on? Forever is an awfully long time to spend with someone who won't budge. Dreams are only fantasies. I don't know if I'd want to hook up with someone who expected me to bring each and every fantasy to life.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

If it is a deal breaker, it is a deal breaker. Why question yourself about something so basic as the number of kids you want to raise? She can find someone who wants the same, or do it on her own (yes, she can--esp. if she goes through foster care and is willing to adopt children with special needs). 

Never feel guilty about knowing your comfort level. You cannot commit to her knowing you have such an essential difference, and it would not be right of her to hold you to your promise in the light of such a difference. Better to part now. Especially since she seems unwilling to compromise on other issues--this isn't one to compromise on (if she knows this is what she wants), but certainly she should be capable of some compromise if she values your role in her life.


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## boxer (Apr 30, 2011)

Once you get married to this woman, she will have *all* the power. Women know this. Rob's advice to "marry her and she'll change" is fatal. You think she's a pain now, wait until she merely has to pick up the phone and tell the police "I'm scared" to have you thrown into the street with nothing. 

Cut your losses. Dump this loser and move on. If you must marry, hold out for one that is both sane and reasonable. Rational adults don't expect the world to change for them. This woman seems like she is an emotional infant and probably has serious mental problems.

Good luck brother.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Kite Weaver said:


> I think part of the problem is that my fiancee likes to have her way all the time. I am generally a laid back person and I rarely complain. I compromise all the time to please her, but I think she is now taking this too far.


I have the exact solution for you.

Go tomorrow and get this book, read it, and implement it.

You're a Nice Guy, and women, no matter what they think, grow to HATE their Nice Guy. 

It dates back to caveman days.

If you don't learn how to man up, you'll never keep ANY woman.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

boxer said:


> Once you get married to this woman, she will have *all* the power. Women know this. Rob's advice to "marry her and she'll change" is fatal. You think she's a pain now, wait until she merely has to pick up the phone and tell the police "I'm scared" to have you thrown into the street with nothing.
> 
> Cut your losses. Dump this loser and move on. If you must marry, hold out for one that is both sane and reasonable. Rational adults don't expect the world to change for them. This woman seems like she is an emotional infant and probably has serious mental problems.
> 
> Good luck brother.


 I just had a conversation with my cubicle neighbor yesterday. He married a year ago, to a woman with 2 kids. A year ago, all he did (to his other friends in cubicle hearing distance; I didn't really know him) was talk about how wonderful she was, all she did for him, etc.

Fast forward to 4 months ago, I'm hearing "I'm so tired. I have to do all the housework. I want to go take the puppy out, but she doesn't want me to. The kids are acting like spoiled brats. Nobody ever does anything except me." 

I'm thinking, he needs to man up!

Finally Friday, he starts talking about the housework. He does almost ALL of it! Her kids do nothing! And SHE is now saying things like "I'm just too tired when I get home..."

So I had enough, and I went and talked to him. Told him he needs to sit her down and tell her he won't accept this. He said maybe she's just tired. I said "no, what she has is 'I married a guy so I don't have to do anything any more-itis.'

That shook him up. What really shook him up was when I said 'if you don't change something now, you'll be divorced in 3 years.'

I told him to get a posterboard and write out all the things that had to be done to keep the family running. Told him to sit her down and say, 'we're going to take turns picking things we agree to be responsible for.' And MAKE her agree to be responsible.

We'll see.


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## Anooniemouse (May 5, 2010)

Okay, she has already decided anything you need is 2nd to her needs. What makes you think after 8 kids you wont be 9th on the list if you are lucky? 

We have limits for a reason. Our unalterable limits, and terms are there for a reason. They are a big warning flag that we either change something in the situation, or we have to leave it. Anything else is simply a recipe for profound unhappiness. 

The only suggestion I have to for you is so outright disrespectful (though I have a feeling a dose of this might be required to make a point) that I wont even bother. Unless God has appeared before you telling you to have 8 kids with this woman, I think its time to exercise the one veto power you have, and make an exit.


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## Kite Weaver (Apr 27, 2011)

Thanks guys.

We are still talking about this and she has asked for more time to think things through. How long is too long?

I am beginning to come to terms with the fact that, there is a chance this might not work and it really hurts. I think love really sucks sometimes- you meet someone you love but then you begin to see differences and attitudes that pose a threat to future happiness...

Regarding some of the comments about manning up, I get your points. Call me old school, but I believe that sound marriages are built on solid mutual respect, understanding and partnership- my parents are a living example...


While I understand that there is a need to take charge as the man, I also realize that there is a need for debate and deliberation and definitely compromise (which is something she does not get) 

Thank you guys...I am holding on


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mutual respect is fine.

Where is HER respect for YOU?

You can't change her. Got that? YOU CAN'T CHANGE HER.

You can't make her wake up and say 'gee, I've been selfish, I need to take care of him.'

It won't happen.

What you CAN do is show her what YOU will accept in a partner, let her know, and then let her decide if she's willing to MEET that level of commitment.

If she isn't, then you have your answer.

Read the books recommended, and add to that 'Boundaries in Marriage' by Cloud and Townsend. It will help you understand what the balance should look like. If you can't get that level of balance, run away. 

Remember, what you have when dating...goes downhill after marriage. So if this is the best you got...prepare for LESS THAN THIS if you marry her.


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## andy32m (Jan 27, 2011)

I agree. If you cant compromise now it would be better to not move to the next step until you are able to communicate more effectively. The other thing I see is possible codependence. If you are always trying to please her and accomodate her that is going to get old and she is going to end up feeling resentful and possibly suffocated. I am going through a divorce right now and it is hard because in three years we didnt have any children but we are still fighting over debt, possessions and our dogs. Don't want to be in my situation if you can avoid it now. I know how hwrd it is because i love my wife but itnwas probably a mitake to get married because i had a lot of the same feelings as you prior to our marriage and they only got worse. We even went to marriage counseling for about s year too to try and solve our issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I was talking to my cubical mate, who married last year to a woman with 2 kids. A year later, HE does almost all the housework; she's 'too tired.' 

I told him she's not too tired, she has another disease. He asked what it was. I told him it's called "I'mmarriednowsoIdon'thavetodoanythingelseanymoreitis.'

He didn't have a response. He knew I was right. She looked for a Sugar Daddy, and got one. And a Nice Guy, to boot. What a sweet ride.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Mutual respect and compromise is essential--this is something you need to discuss regardless of whether or not she thinks she wants 8 kids. Ask her flat out if she feels capable of compromise--explain that you've noticed it seems to be difficult for her. Does she fear "losing herself" if she compromises? Is she afraid of the conflict that compromise suggests (ie, we compromise b/c we are in conflict)? An inability to compromise can mean a couple of things--she's insecure about having the ability to compromise without losing herself (becoming someone who always gives in), or she just isn't attracted enough to you to make it worth her while to compromise. Having a discussion about this could be really beneficial. Good luck.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Kite Weaver said:


> We fight all the time over issues I consider trivial. She takes offense very easily, reads meaning into things...I feel so emotionally drained every day just trying to resolve issues.
> 
> I think part of the problem is that my fiancee likes to have her way all the time. I am generally a laid back person and I rarely complain. I compromise all the time to please her, but I think she is now taking this too far.
> 
> ...


I am someone who feels you need ALOT MORE than LOVE to make a marraige work and work well- to sustain for a lifetime. You sound like the laid back Nice guy type and if you marry a woman who is demanding AND overly sensitive. OH MY - this is a terrible combination - I can see why you are fighting every day. 

I can tell you ,I am capable of doing that to my husband, I am somewhat damanding, but not at all overly sensitve. What got us through in marraige was we pretty much "agreed" on everything so I wasn't too awful much of an ogre to deal with. 

People who marry really NEED to have the same goals, dream the same dreams, if you are a home buddy, marry a home buddy, similar love lanugauges, physical attraction and GOOD compromising communication skills. NEVER SETTLE FOR LESS, you will regret it. 

If you are having THIS much disagreement NOW, you are walking into an inferno -to go ahead with this marraige. 

We had 6 kids, we originally talked about having just 3 but I wanted a daughter so darn bad, we kept going. I knew from before we married, how many kids we had was NOT an issue for my husband at all, he told me however many I wanted, he would be up for it, so long as I did the work of taking care of them. Which I did, never expected him to change diapers, get up in the middle of the night or any of those things -cause he was the one who was working to provide. 

A deal breaker is a DEAL breaker, we all have them, they may be different from others, but that is OK. Stand beside them in your life, you will not regret it - look for someone who dreams the same dreams as you. This is where happiness lies in marraige , and not striving, not to mention future resentment.


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## Kite Weaver (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you guys. I will get the books.

SimplyAmorous, your thoughts resonate with mine. You really hit the nail on the head- Yes, my Fiancee is emotionally demanding and overly sensitive, and yes this can be very tiring.

Funny, it was never like that when we started dating- she was spontaneous, carefree, happy, exciting and selfless. Sometimes, I wonder when this change happened...Did I change her? Was it something I did?...Or was it just a trait that laid dormant for a while?

Truth is, I cant tell, and may never know, but I do know what my limits are, and I will stick to them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Knowledge is your best friend right now.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

KW,
Below is my story about family size - and it ended happily - but everyone is different. Before I get into that I am going to briefly address the bigger issue. Your W met you and fell for you. Gradually over time she has done a lot of little things with a common subtext which is: "I am more important than you, and you are lucky to be with me"

Being a decent and fair person, you haven't really noticed this pattern. Heck she may not even be aware of it. The problem is that as she goes further and further down that path and the relationship becomes steadily more and more skewed towards her wants/needs she actually becomes less and less happy with YOU. Because she becomes more and more convinced that you also believe you don't deserve her. Now none of this is ever explicitly stated, but the interaction pattern itself shows the underlying mindset. And it is super toxic. 

Do a little exercise. When you and your fiancee disagree, ask yourself how often she departs from the path of logic, reason and fairness to reach resolution? And instead uses a brute force emotional hammer to get what she wants. And by that I do not mean she yells/screams or says mean things. Rather that she inflicts, or threatens to inflict enough emotional distress on you, that it makes sense to just "do it her way". 

I think you will find that as time has passed, she has gotten more and more accustomed to using the "brute force" method because in isolation, from your vantage point, none of these individual conflicts has seemed worthy of a big blow up. The problem with that approach has nothing to do with the discrete decisions, most of which really aren't that important. Instead the real problem is that this pattern has eroded her respect for you and will continue to in the future. And that is a certain train wreck. 

This may still be fixable, but you have a lot of work to do before you make a lifetime commitment to this woman. And job one is going to be enforcing a "golden rule or bust" style of interaction with her. 

Family size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think Atholk is mostly right about women and family size. His comment was that they decide family size and that mostly they are relentless on this point. 

We had 2 kids - spaced almost 5 years. She wanted "more" - which I believed to be at least 2 more but I could not tell for sure. She was a SAHM - and a very good one. She is/was also quite responsible with regard to spending money. 

That said, 100 percent of the financial responsibility was on me to ensure that we had a fiscally "sound" house. 

One peaceful Sunday afternoon when our second child was just over a year I initiated this conversation while standing in our kitchen. 

>>>>>>>>
I have thought about family size for 6 months now. I want to stop at 2, you want more. You have 3 options, please don't pick option 3. Either 1 or 2 are fine. 

1. You agree to 3 children - this is not a pretend to agree - this is a hardcore commit that when our next baby is 6 months old and past the risk of SIDS - I go get a vasectomy without further conversation/discussion disagreement. This is my preferred choice. I will never complain about the 3rd, never reference that I did this under duress. I will simply convince myself I want 3 just as much as you. I am certain I can get there. 

2. You decide that 3 is just not enough for you to be happy. I will make you a generous financial settlement, we will part amicably and stay great friends. You may then proceed to have as many children as you like with another man. 

3. You pretend to agree to 1, and then try to go for 2 - with me. If that happens we will divorce, it will be bitter, I will inflict as much misery on you as I am legally able. I will never - if I live to be a 100 - never forgive you for deceiving me. 

I have had 6 months to consider this. You are welcome to evaluate your options as long as you like. If you believe there are other valid options I am glad to listen to your thoughts. 

She selected option 1, and we followed the plan to the letter without further discussion. Number 3 is a delightful child. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If I had to do it over again I would have added some stuff to this. Specifically that I wanted a promise that I would not be dropped to the bottom of the priority stack after child 3 was born. And that our sex life would not change after number 3. I was really lucky, neither changed. But many, many men find that as soon as wife gets the final child, her motivation to play nice with husband drops very noticeably. I am not bashing women - just describing a very common outcome. 

I would have put it this way: Our marriage will not survive me being treated as the 5th wheel. Your life will be much worse with more kids and no husband, then less kids and no husband. For your sake don't do this unless you really are as committed to me as a man and a husband as you are to making little copies of us. 

Like I said I was lucky. I did not have those issues, but many men do. 




Kite Weaver said:


> Thank you guys. I will get the books.
> 
> SimplyAmorous, your thoughts resonate with mine. You really hit the nail on the head- Yes, my Fiancee is emotionally demanding and overly sensitive, and yes this can be very tiring.
> 
> ...


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## Kite Weaver (Apr 27, 2011)

Hello Fellas.

Recent Update- Its been a few rough months since I last posted here. My Fiancee and I broke up a few weeks ago.

Its for the best. The last few months were crazy. Got into a car wreck that almost ended both our lives, hospital bills, car replacement and all manner of challenges. 

Suffice is to say we did not make it through. We both realize we have major compatibility issues and I decided we should go our separate ways. Thanks for the support, comments and suggestions.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm glad you're all ok. But I think it's for the best. There ARE people out there who want nothing more than to have someone to cherish. You'll find yours. Thanks for letting us know!


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## LilaGrace111 (Aug 27, 2011)

Two things. First of all, learn to stand up to this woman or she will control you for the rest of your life. If you don´t agree with something, just say "no". She will soon learn you are not a doormat.

Second, once she has 2 - 3 children, she will no longer want 8, so I wouldn´t worry about this too much if I were you. Very few people can cope emotionally, financially and physically with the demands of more than a couple of kids. She will quickly find out when reality hits.

It is vital that you do not marry someone unless you can happily resolve conflict with this person. it WILL only get worse. And I promise you, try resolving conflict with her in 10 years when you are divorced with 5 kids and she won´t compromise. If she cannot compromise, she cannot marry!


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

I think you came to the best conclusion.

Thanks for update, many times, we never find out how these events end.


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## the gifted (Aug 31, 2011)

If your fiancee lives of her own relationship you are looking at so far not allowed to look to the same parity as part of your total possible parity as long as you feel the concept of parity so lets say you want to give your fiancee your control not only in that she gets the same control regardless of the specific content of your but would appreciate herself to be able to evaluate itself without you because of you


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

Kite, your fiancee is a selfish self absorbed child that is dilluted by fantasies. You SHALL regret marrying her. Don't do it! Love is never, ever enough to tie the knot. She will destroy you.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Marriage only gets more difficult after the newness of the relationship wears off. Trust me on this. If you are having this much emotional turmoil before the wedding, things will only get worse after 10 or 12 years. A wise man once told me to "keep both eyes wide open before the wedding, and half closed after...." If you are seeing this kind of trauma now, it's a good indication you should get out. It's not going to be easy, but it will be far worse to get out later.


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