# The Common Justification for Women Cheating



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I started thinking about this one. I see quite a few posts where it is alleged that the betryed husband was negelcetful or unevolved in terms of emotions or communication skills, and that is the justification put forth by some women who cheat.
Then, I started looking at the posts here by men.In general, I saw articulate, thoughtful guys who really were motivated to keep their spouses happy. Not Neanderthals yelling "Honey, get me a beer. Da Bears on on."
Then, I started thinking about all the male artists, poets, authors, philosophers and how well represented men are in these areas.
I was reading a book, one of two e-books, by Michelle Langley on "Women's Infidelity". Her first book, essentially, explained the reason women often cheat. In a nutshell, she feels they are socialized to beleive that if they feel attraction to a man other than their husband, they mistake it for love more frequently and attribute the attraction to not loving their husbands.
She goes on to talk about the testosterone balance increasing vs estrogen as women age and their increased attraction to other men as a result.
The second book, however, takes a look at these allegations by women cheaters that they were neglected, tried to communicate their dissatisfaction to their husbands, and it fell on deaf ears. 
She also looked at this allegation that men were poorer communicators and had less need for emotional closeness.
She found, surprisingly, that the betrayed men she interviewed were , by and large, excellent communicators, often beeter than their wives, verbally. 
She also found that the women, in fact, had not effectively communicated their dissatisfaction to the husband, and that they had a high expectation of clairvoyance. Thye had expressed some minimal dissatisfaction, but not to the extent that anyone would know that cheating was on the horizon.
As I said, the male posters here, if anything, seem every bit as communicative, thoughtful and available for intimacy as the women. Yet, we even hear the men subscribing to this notion that they were deficient in these areas.
I wonder if, like many stereotypes, this procalmation that men are like this has not been so oft repeated that it goes unexamined.
If anything, my guy friends are every bit as thoughtful as my female ones. And, many of us were college jocks, although we were at schools with high academic standards and majored in things other than basket weaving.
But, our conversations do not center on boxscores or carbeurators etc.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I think you focus too much on gender
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I don't . But, reasonable minds can differ.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't think the jerk men would not come on a site like this. The men on this site are the type to want to talk it out, or else they wouldn't be here.

Most of the posts I see about cheating (men or women writers) talk about their lack of intimacy (either sexually or emotionally...which can be the same in one, but not always).

Your wife cheated, what did she say was the reason?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

There does seem to be at least a standard male response to blame themselves first for being a crappy husband as the reason for their wife cheating.

There seem to be very few women who approach it like that. Seldom do you read a post from BW stating she was at fault for years of neglect which drove her WS to cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

She said she felt emotionally neglected. Of course with taking care of two toddlers , one severly disabled, all alone most nights(she was ot 112 out of 180 nights to after 1 a.m. for the 6 months I tracked), I may have been a little too tired to listen to her self centered jibberish. I was working full time, too.
She needed "connection" and try as I might, I could not give it to her. However, the many men she met in bars and had sex with must have been emotionally connected to her:scratchhead:.Thye were fast learners, as she would have sex with them right away.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

The stereotype needs to be shattered, 
your observations I believe are dead on!
although there is in all probability a large population of neanderthals, from what i have seen in my short time here is as you said, quite articulate caring men, 
at the very least in these cases the excuses by the wife for the affair is in my opinion a big pile of @#$%.
that may be one of the hardest things in my getting past this is it was me, long before the EA that had wanted to make things better, get closer, be more intimate but thanks to "law & order" and "Farmville", she just didn't seem to have the time....


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Did she ever try talking to you about it? Before it all went to hell??


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Me, too. I was begging for Marriage counseling. She would have none of it. I tried everything I knew to support my wife. Her time out was alleged to be to "journalize" re her family of orign problems. So, I subsidized her tie off so she could grapple with those issues.I learned that her grappling was with other bodies, some women,some men.
I know of very few guys that have been through this who do not, eventually, realize that they were, in fact, trying to reach out to their wives. Thier efforts were futile.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> There seem to be very few women who approach it like that. Seldom do you read a post from BW stating she was at fault for years of neglect which drove her WS to cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very true Shaggy, but funny enough i was surprised in a couple of the many conversations my wife and i have had since DD, she has said that she needs to "take care of her husband" like she should,
just hoping its not in the context of a hitman to be with the OM


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Me, too. I was begging for Marriage counseling. She would have none of it. I tried everything I knew to support my wife. Her time out was alleged to be to "journalize" re her family of origin problems. So, I subsidized her tie off so she could grapple with those issues.I learned that her grappling was with other bodies, some women,some men.
> I know of very few guys that have been through this who do not, eventually, realize that they were, in fact, trying to reach out to their wives. Thier efforts were futile.


I'm sorry it went down like that.

Lots of affairs...were you suspicious or did it just hit you like a ton of bricks? (I'm sorry, i truly don't know your backstory.)


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Did she ever try talking to you about it? Before it all went to hell??


Not a peep. Had she, I would have tried to fix it. Just got mad, went silent,and became more abusive.
Once, toward the end, she woke me at 2 in the morning to give me a detailed description of the guy's physique. Pretty sadistic.
Her siter , finally, came to me and implored me to divorce her, and volunteered to testify in court re who was the real primary caregiver to our boys.

She aslo told me "Arnold, as you marched down the aisle with my siter, I turned to John(her husband) and said,""""I hope this poor guy knows what he is getting into""".
It was nice to have her support.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

because it's fun?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

morituri said:


> because it's fun?


Or as the old joke goes: Why does a dog lick his balls?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I'm sorry it went down like that.
> 
> Lots of affairs...were you suspicious or did it just hit you like a ton of bricks? (I'm sorry, i truly don't know your backstory.)


This was pre-internet, That Girl, and i was very ineperienced.She was my first real girlfriend, the only person I had slept with. I had no clue she would do this, although she had told me that she had an affair with a married man before we met. 
I was a kid, though, and beleived she would be different with me. Some hubris, some naivete.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

at the same time there a lot of men on this forum who admit they didn't really pay attention to their wives. I went straight to the divorce without cheating. but I promise you I talked to him and I talked to him and I talked to him . told him what bothered me why I was unhappy . I even begged him occasionally . I finally gave up disconnected and started planning my exit . I suspect for a lot of women that's were the affair comes in . they wouldn't communicate any longer because they decided it was pointless, and I think that might be why men say - I didn't know, she seemed happy, nothing seemed to be wrong . and that's because at that point nothing did appear to be wrong . she was done complaining .

my ex husband was incre dibly articulate . But when it came to dealing with anything that involve me expressing upset for the state of our marriage he just didn't get it . like there was a disconnect from what I was saying to his brain . 
he was definitely blindsided when I told him I had seen a lawyer and was going to file for divorce . but his claiming ignorance does it erase the fact that I did attempt to communicate well before it got to that point .

An effective communicator doesn't always make an effective listener .

so I think what you got in that book is a lot of he said she said and what he said may or may not reflect a reality . 

there are a lot of genuinely nice guys who gets screwed in marriage . And some of this genuinely nice guys he don't hear . there are people who maybe they thought they were doing the right thing for their family and wife find only to find out too late that it really wasn't what she wanted. they're so busy doing what they think they're supposed to be doing that they don't hear the other person . or worse they hear the complaints and brush them off. it's that time of the month she's hormonal . she doesn't know what she's talking about . I'm happy I don't understand how you could have a problem . if I would like this then you should like it . you know the kind of people who don't understand that not everybody shares the same love language .

and let's not forget the plain old I will bury my head in the sand types. if I ignore it long enough it will go away .

and about 50 percent of them do .

regarding getting older and testosterone .. by the time women hit this point if they been married long enough to someone who just doesn't get it she's also likely to the point where her children older, she is more self assured , and she no longer feels bound to her husband . While attraction is certainly chemical , the willingness to allow yourself to fall into an affair is not . a lot happens before an affair actually begins . somewhere the person weighs the benefits and drawbacks. if you've been in a marriage where you feel that concerns have been ignored for years, and you're already in some state of disconnect , an affair provides the push out the door . 

it certainly isn't the right way to deal with things . but both men and women have exit affairs .

I'm sure there are plenty of valid points in the book. but it also sounds like there a lot of points that were made to support her thesis as opposed to reflect reality .

and let's not forget the fact that a lot of men paint their women black in order to justify their affairs too. 
I think all of the stereo types have been examined quite a lot . there is a cheaters script . and both sides use it . but sometimes just sometimes the women communicate and it fell on deaf ears . likewise for men .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

i can agree with this spot on.

my wife's reasons for having an affair, in no particular order.

i neglected her.
she wasn't happy.
he made her feel special.
he listened to her .


mind you that they were coworkers. and on some days he spent more time with er than i did, so its kinda a no brainer. (she wored at 4 in morn, got up at three. went to bed round 8. i worked a 9-530 got home at six)

the big kicker for me in whe the OP wrote was the communication thing. while ill agree with my wife that my communication needs some work ( i have a lecturing style, i have a tendancy to interrupt as to not for get my thoughts, and i usually talked to her when she was tired and wanted to go to sleep). the glaring problem to me was, she usually communicated her displeasure in the middle of tha fight, by that time, i was defensive and any problems she had was falling on deaf ears, as were any solutions i could offer.

it usually went like this.

her: dont you see how un happy i am?
me: no,. but what can i do to fix it?
her. i dont know.
me:then how am i supposed to make whats making you unhappy, or something im not doing right, right?
her: i dont know
me: then screw it, when you know whats wrong ,let me know so i can find a way to make it better.


repeat every few weeks...as shes complaining to the OM and hes using all that he learns to his advantage...


i found that women just want you to know whats worng and fix it, lke were mind readers, and for all their need for communication, its actually quite the opposite. they need to communicate to us more effectivley, and we need to know when to shut up (like when they just want to complain about their day. they dont want a solution, they just want to vent.)


just my 3 cents.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

This langley person said much the same. There were indicaotrs, however they were, often obscure and not specific, such that anything could be done about them.
She talked about the fact that the guys were , often as not, the better of the two at communication. She says that in talking to ehme, she found, however, that their wives were not interested intheir opinions,unless the opinion mirrored their own. The wives would chastise or denigrate their husbands opinions until the men learned to just keep it to themselves.
She gave an example of how some women expect that a man'sopinion would parrot their own.
A male presenter at a symposium on some issue relating to women reported his perception of a women's feeling on an issue. a woman in the audience stood up and complimented him on holding this view. The guy was surprsed and informed her that he never stated he held the view and was merely reporting the view of many women.
I know that is an isolated example. But, Langely felt that men are in fact receptive to hearing their wives whenthe wives were clear and did not expect mind reading. 
She presented one woman with another's complaint about her hisband, inquiring if this woman fwelt the complaining woman was bieng clear that her dissatid=sfaction had risen to the level where an affair was imminent. The complaint was very vague, yet this woman thought, yes, it is quite clear she is contemplating having an affair.
Langley pointed out that virtually no one could decipher that intent for the statement.(But, I guess this woman who she inquired of could((of cousre that woman was a cheater, as well)).


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

That's how I learned the lesson in my marriage to grab my husband by the face (not harshly but just to look at me) if there is a serious issues and say, "This is very serious, we have to talk about this." He said he'd do the same...for so long we just "existed".

I won't let things slide by again.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

that_girl said:


> That's how I learned the lesson in my marriage to grab my husband by the face (not harshly but just to look at me) if there is a serious issues and say, "This is very serious, we have to talk about this." He said he'd do the same...for so long we just "existed".
> 
> I won't let things slide by again.


Very smart and healthy. I think some folks will not do it as they are passive/aggressive.
Whenever I tried to talk about this stuff with my XW, and try to get us into counseling, she would tell me the her individa=ual counselor would stop seeing her if she went to marriage counseling.
Of course, what i did not know, was that she was having an affair with her counselor, as well.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Oh wow.  that's just dirty.

Yea, my husband and I ignored our issues for a long time until things just went KABOOM!

I won't do it again. I also realized that it's silly to be scared to talk to my husband and yet allow him to put his penis inside of me. :scratchhead: makes no sense. I won't be afraid to talk to my husband any longer. It was time to woman-up.


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

wow..im sorry to hear about that.

i found that my wife had issues with communicating besides just doing it the wrong way.

id often try to bring stuff up, from fights we had previously, when things were calm. so that they could be discussed in a better way. but by then she never wanted to talk about it, or feared it would turn into another fight.
i wish she would have not waited till we were full on arguing to bring things up. i was receptive to listening and more importantly fixing what was wrong within reason. but she just worked off of pure emotion and never handled the situation right.


that said, my wife is a bit on the immature spoiled side...so theres that.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Oh wow.  that's just dirty.
> 
> Yea, my husband and I ignored our issues for a long time until things just went KABOOM!
> 
> I won't do it again. I also realized that it's silly to be scared to talk to my husband and yet allow him to put his penis inside of me. :scratchhead: makes no sense. I won't be afraid to talk to my husband any longer. It was time to woman-up.


I can , vaguely, recall this penis inside deal.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

If there's anything I learned from therapy, it's that our communication skills derive mostly from our childhood and the things we lacked then.

Our 'inner child' plays a huge role and if that child is still hungry for whatever it lacked, it still fights to protect ourselves.

I realized I was living my whole life based on the protection skills of a child. When i was young, those skills worked, as I could avoid things and go on with my life. But I'm no longer a child and must not behave like one. My husband realized this too. Our defense mechanisms were created by children (us at the time) but they are of no use to us now. I was able to go into myself and calm that child and tell her things were okay now and it brought me much peace. It also allowed me to behave like an adult.

It was not easy to address old pains (my fathers abandoning me ...both bio and step...my mother berating me my whole life, etc) but it was worth it to help my marriage and myself.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Yep,had a lot of therapy myself. Raised with an abusive, alcholic, raging parent. Made me avoid conflict. Wish my XW had had decent therapy.Her therapy , apparently, consisted of "deep probing", the physical variety.
Her mom is just like Mary Tyler Moore in "Ordinary People".


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Ugh. That therapist should be ashamed. I went for a female therapist just so there'd be nothing of the sort. Not that I was looking, but sharing deep things with someone is intimate. I needed a woman to talk to.

We're still working through the issues with my mother. lol. I bet my therapist is happy for all the money she gets from me! It will be a long time coming until I'm over all that. However, the stress of it all has been released and I'm already so much better.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Yeah, I know all about that. My own fWW gave me the whole "we grew apart" reasoning. Really? Yeah, we only did everything together, went everywhere together, worked out together, etc, etc, etc. 

And when I would ask her what what wrong, I would always get the dreaded "N" word that most men get:

NOTHING.

Nothing? Really? Then why are you acting like that? Have I done something wrong?

NOTHING.


But evidently, she could tell OM everything that was wrong about me and discuss every little intimate detail of our marriage to an OM (an old hs ex-bf). Like most cheating wives, they expect their husband to be able to read their minds, and they would rather discuss their marital problems with OM instead of the one person they should be discussing it with: their husband.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Yes,the expectation of clairvoyance was one of the things Langely mentioned as being quite common. I wonder about its genesis. Could it be that they were treated as "princesses" by their dad's or something. I just do not get it at all. 
It is contradictory. On the one hand , the males are sterotyped as insensitive and uncaring etc. Yet, there is this expectation which would seem inconsistent with that stereotype'
Let's see, an insensitive, emotionally unevolved husband who is clairvoyant and expected to read his wife's mind? Yeah, that works.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Yes,the expectation of clairvoyance was one of the things Langely mentioned as being quite common. I wonder about its genesis. Could it be that they were treated as "princesses" by their dad's or something. I just do not get it at all.
> It is contradictory. On the one hand , the males are sterotyped as insensitive and uncaring etc. Yet, there is this expectation which would seem inconsistent with that stereotype'
> Let's see, an insensitive, emotionally unevolved husband who is clairvoyant and expected to read his wife's mind? Yeah, that works.


My husband expected me to read his. I would ask all the time, "What's wrong?" He'd say, "nothing. We're ok. I'm just tired.".

Now that we're ok, we talk about that time and he said, "How did you not know we had problems?"



:rofl:

We have both learned that neither of us has a farkin' crystal ball!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

It never ceases to amaze me how marriages become cesspools of secrecy thanks to these cheating spouses.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Yes,the expectation of clairvoyance was one of the things Langely mentioned as being quite common. I wonder about its genesis. Could it be that they were treated as "princesses" by their dad's or something. I just do not get it at all.
> It is contradictory. On the one hand , the males are sterotyped as insensitive and uncaring etc. Yet, there is this expectation which would seem inconsistent with that stereotype'
> Let's see, an insensitive, emotionally unevolved husband who is clairvoyant and expected to read his wife's mind? Yeah, that works.


:iagree:

That's why I have to throw the bullsh!t flag when I read about WWs who said they tried to tell their husband what was wrong. Did they REALLY try to communicate? Or did they do what most WWs do, and expect their BH to magically read their minds and know what was wrong.

Sorry, like most people, I'm neither psychic or telepathic.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That's why I have to throw the bullsh!t flag when I read about WWs who said they tried to tell their husband what was wrong. Did they REALLY try to communicate? Or did they do what most WWs do, and expect their BH to magically read their minds and know what was wrong.
> 
> Sorry, like most people, I'm neither psychic or telepathic.


But, you did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express, right?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Arnold said:


> But, you did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express, right?


You must be psychic! How did you know?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Arnold, can you sue the therapist for malpractice?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

> repeat every few weeks...as shes complaining to the OM and hes using all that he learns to his advantage...


Bingo! thats my story, dont tell the husband, but do tell the guy she is working with so he can REALLY work her.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Langley is neither a medical professional or holds any sort of credentials that support her work. So.....you need to take her book with a grain of salt. A grain about the size of a car.

That being said, I did read her books, and there are some good points in it, but her work is not the superior guide to why women cheat.

The truth is, you will never truly know why someone cheats, unless of course they tell you.

My WW....gave justifications for her affair from I was a terrible provider (I have a great professional career, btw), all the way to the other end of the spectrum of her stating that she had realized that I was never really compatible to her, after 15 years, and that she wasted her entire life with me. And of course, the big kicker after I confronted her with evidence of her affair..."see! I can't trust you! This is why I'm having an affair!"


All of these excuses Were just that. Excuses to justify her own actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

For me it was. neglect, tried to communicate my dissatisfaction to my husband, and it fell on deaf ears. You can only talk and talk so much he didn't get it.. However having an EA really didn't do me any good in either case. 

I am also guilty of saying nothing is wrong when there really is something wrong, but what is the point in telling him when it doesn't matter if i tell him or not he doesn't seem to give a crap

Arnold I also had a very mean, abusive and an alcoholic as a father I also avoid conflict as much as possible.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Arnold, can you sue the therapist for malpractice?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Statute ran on it before Ifound out. It happened 16 years ago, in my first marriage and I found out about him about 6 years ago. At this point, I want to just forget her. We still have to co-parent our disabled son, so she contacts me. I am civil. Never got an aplogy, although she knows I know everything.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Langley is neither a medical professional or holds any sort of credentials that support her work. So.....you need to take her book with a grain of salt. A grain about the size of a car.
> 
> That being said, I did read her books, and there are some good points in it, but her work is not the superior guide to why women cheat.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know she has no credentials, other than the fact that she cheated , herself, on her husband. But, seriously, I don't think credentials in this area mean a whole helluva lot. To me, the folks that know the most are the betrayed spouses who have been through this. MD. LCP, whatever. I have found that most of the time those folks are just making it up as they go along, too.

I got a lot of the same justifications you mention. I did not make enough $$. I did not make her feel special. I invaded her privacu by busting her with a P.I.
It's all really quite absurd.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

ladybird said:


> For me it was. neglect, tried to communicate my dissatisfaction to my husband, and it fell on deaf ears. You can only talk and talk so much he didn't get it.. However having an EA really didn't do me any good in either case.
> 
> I am also guilty of saying nothing is wrong when there really is something wrong, but what is the point in telling him when it doesn't matter if i tell him or not he doesn't seem to give a crap
> 
> Arnold I also had a very mean, abusive and an alcoholic as a father I also avoid conflict as much as possible.


Sorry about your childhood. Do you think it influenced you in your decision to cheat vs the honorable way out, divorce?
Cheating is tremendously abusive, you know. So, why join your father's ranks?


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> I think you focus too much on gender
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:


There's a surprise


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Hoosier said:


> Bingo! thats my story, dont tell the husband, but do tell the guy she is working with so he can REALLY work her.


Interesting how it is in affairs, they can tell the OM/OW, but they can't communicate it to their own husband/wife.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

It is the big, dirty secret:Some women are poor communicaors. Some men are very good listeners/communicators. Some women cannot share intimacy.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

In my case, my W said she was unhappy but I never considered it was because of me. I was thinking it was because of work or her kids but I was probably in denial at the time. She never came out and said she wasn’t happy with me nor would I expect her to since she would have been afraid to hurt my feelings. She just “hinted” and expected me to figure it out.

One problem I do see as a man is when the W is direct about not being happy we can get defensive. Them telling us they are unhappy says we are failing as husbands and we want to defend ourselves (we work all day and do stuff around the house and blah blah) or even try to blame them. It’s not intentional, it’s human nature. 

So being afraid to hurt our feelings and confrontation probably prevents most women from being more direct with us. Hell women aren't direct with each other and men are not good at reading between the lines when communicating with them so its no wonder communication is such an issue.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

How many times have husbands heard their wives tell them "If you love me you should know". Many women fall into the false belief that it is the husband's duty to make them happy when it is THEIR responsibility to make themselves happy. No one, man or woman, can be or should be responsible for another person's happiness.

Granted that there are many neglectful husbands that stop giving their wives the attention and affection they showered them when they were courting them, causing their wives to become emotionally starved and easy prey for a sc*mbag looking for some easy sex. But it is still the responsibility of the woman to recognize the situation and act accordingly by *clearly* informing her husband of her emotional starvation and if her husband is unwilling to do anything then take the steps to separate and ultimately divorce him.

It is better to get a divorce than to live in a loveless/sexless marriage. Or to quote a line from an old Todd Rundgren song *"I'd rather live by a dream than live by a lie* .


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

IMO, the unfaithful, both men and women alike always use some sort of justification for their infidelity when actually it's nothing but some lame excuse. First, I would have have given just about anything to have a husband who loved and cherished me and reached out to me and was there for me and all that stuff. So, for those women who had that in their husband, it baffles me to no end why they would have to cheat. For them to say they felt too much stress or whatever because of young children is a cop-out. There are many relaxation techniques and activities available that does not include getting naked with someone who is not your spouse. For her to say she need a connection with someone is another cheap cop-out. She can connect with a girlfriend if she needs someone to vent to, she can write her feelings down to get them off her chest if she needs to. In the end, people cheat simply because they can. There is no justification behind it. Those who cheat often have a good, loyal spouse at home and the problems at home, if any, are often minimal.


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## ReasonableMan (Oct 18, 2011)

I really believe that there is absolutely no reason that anyone cheats. I mean it. I don't think even the cheaters themselves have the slightest notion of why they do what they do. Even those who have suffered abuse are doing something that makes no rational sense when they could leave, get help, etc. I don't say this to judge or condemn those who have cheated nor those who were cheated on and are looking for reasons why (they have my utmost sympathy). I'm just saying that I don't think there will ever be an understandable reason for any of this happening. Just my opinion.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Cowardice -which also applies to cheating husbands.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

This covers a few of reasons, Ive heard a bunch of these and every DS Ive seen post a story here has also spewed these in chunks.


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## InFlux (Oct 30, 2011)

ReasonableMan said:


> I really believe that there is absolutely no reason that anyone cheats. I mean it. I don't think even the cheaters themselves have the slightest notion of why they do what they do. Even those who have suffered abuse are doing something that makes no rational sense when they could leave, get help, etc. I don't say this to judge or condemn those who have cheated nor those who were cheated on and are looking for reasons why (they have my utmost sympathy). I'm just saying that I don't think there will ever be an understandable reason for any of this happening. Just my opinion.


The reason people cheat is quite simple: because they choose to self-medicate with the "affair drug" instead of other options (e.g. chemical drugs, alcohol, shopping, etc.) But the motivation is the same. People are running from their problems, pushing them on the back-burner, while they distract themselves, momentarily, with something they perceive as more "fun", something that makes them feel good (for a little while). I even asked my STBXW not too long ago why she continues to see her "boy toy" instead of working on saving her marriage. Her reply? "Because it's fun." She's an addict. And just like any other addictive behavior, the addict is oblivious to the destruction they are not only causing other people (kids, spouses, etc.) but also the destruction they're causing to themselves. My wife's face has aged 10 years in a day. It's sad really. I look at pictures taken of my STBXW since her affair started and you can see this glazed, lost look on her face behind a mask that's desperately trying to say to the world "I'm happy!" Not to excuse affairs, but it definitely helps to see them for what they are really: destructive self-medication.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

InFlux said:


> The reason people cheat is quite simple: because they choose to self-medicate with the "affair drug" instead of other options (e.g. chemical drugs, alcohol, shopping, etc.) But the motivation is the same. People are running from their problems, pushing them on the back-burner, while they distract themselves, momentarily, with something they perceive as more "fun", something that makes them feel good (for a little while). I even asked my STBXW not too long ago why she continues to see her "boy toy" instead of working on saving her marriage. Her reply? "Because it's fun." She's an addict. And just like any other addictive behavior, the addict is oblivious to the destruction they are not only causing other people (kids, spouses, etc.) but also the destruction they're causing to themselves. My wife's face has aged 10 years in a day. It's sad really. I look at pictures taken of my STBXW since her affair started and you can see this glazed, lost look on her face behind a mask that's desperately trying to say to the world "I'm happy!" Not to excuse affairs, but it definitely helps to see them for what they are really: destructive self-medication.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This post hit the nail on the head.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

ArmyofJuan said:


> In my case, my W said she was unhappy but I never considered it was because of me. I was thinking it was because of work or her kids but I was probably in denial at the time. She never came out and said she wasn’t happy with me nor would I expect her to since she would have been afraid to hurt my feelings. She just “hinted” and expected me to figure it out.
> 
> One problem I do see as a man is when the W is direct about not being happy we can get defensive. Them telling us they are unhappy says we are failing as husbands and we want to defend ourselves (we work all day and do stuff around the house and blah blah) or even try to blame them. It’s not intentional, it’s human nature.
> 
> So being afraid to hurt our feelings and confrontation probably prevents most women from being more direct with us. Hell women aren't direct with each other and men are not good at reading between the lines when communicating with them so its no wonder communication is such an issue.


I also believe that most of us do not communicate as well as we think we do. In particular, we have difficulties in communicating in a manner that would not work well for us to receive. Different people receive and interpret information in different ways. We also tend to communicate in the way that we recevie information. So, for example, person A, who communicates in a softer tones with more information communicated "between the lines" is married to person B, who is more direct "tell it like it is." Person A can communicate very clearly his unhappiness with the marriage using his communication method, and Person B can quite honestly say she did not hear what was being communicated.

Something that my wife and I have worked on is to actively work on communicating in a different fashion so that we can improve our communications level. I know that I have been surprised on a couple of occasions where I thought I had communicated quite clearly only to realize I had not when my wife told me what she thought I had said - and she had not received my point.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

A large part of it was/is the mind reading thing. I would openly bring it up, tell her I cant read her mind, and I want to be better for us. She said she understood, would make an effort to talk openly for a week or two, then nothing. The way she treated me yesterday, makes it clear that she simply wanted things to fall apart, and did not have the courage to ask me to leave, or to leave on her own. She feels she deserves punishment, the punishment alleviates her guilt over perceiving herself as a "failure," the only thing she had in her life that was not a failure was her marriage to me, so she decided to blow it up. I thought I had the strength to help her, I figured if she became a whole, healthy, individual, she could live a happy fulfilled life. But her greatest fear for whatever reason ( I suspect it is her inability to let go of the terrible ordeal she went through with her first sexual partner when she was 15, and his subsequent suicide ten years later) was to live a happy life, so she took steps to ensure it could not happen, at least not with me anyway. Maybe her 24 year old lover, who comes from a broken home (like way broken), has suicidal ideation, and the inability to communicate with the majority of society on an acceptable level (he is a loner), will be a better match for her to live the life of misery she wants. I could never accept her desire to kill herself, and the guy she is ****ing has no problem with that idea, so he must be a better match. I made sure to tell her parents all of this when I outed the affair, and I'll be certain to reiterate it when and if I get another chance to see her family.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

From the initial post:



> _...."the women, in fact, had not effectively communicated their dissatisfaction to the husband, and that they had a high expectation of clairvoyance...."._


...if that isn't a spot on description of my wife...I don't know what is!! I will make every effort to solve / address an issue or problem...IF I KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS!! I have little to no patience for guessing games....and my patience "reserve" seems to dwindle more every day. I can't express HOW many times I was told, "_You're only focusing on yourself...if you can't figure out what's bothering me_". And then...on top of that I was expected to shoulder 50% of the blame for her affair...because I couldn't read her mind?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

"I'm the girl, rules don't apply to me."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> From the initial post:
> 
> _Quote:
> ...."the women, in fact, had not effectively communicated their dissatisfaction to the husband" _


In my case, this was absolutely, unequivocally 100% untrue.


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