# WS Emotionally Open



## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Hey, wanting to get experiences and thoughts here without hijacking my other thread.

The thing that ripped me up as much as anything with my wife's affair 4 years ago was that the correspondence I saw between her and OM, emails, texts, were so full of open emotion. This was the type of stuff I hadn't seen in at least 10 years and honestly I don't know if I ever saw the level of emotional openness ever.

In the beginning of our 20 year marriage she was sweet and fairly open with her emotions. As the years went on she became more and more emotionally closed off. Now not like a robot, birthday cards and valentines day cards had some sweet emotions and the "I love you's" were there. But with OM it was a literal "I can't live without you, I feel like I am crumbling inside".

Some of the things that made it so difficult for me was that she was showing a very submissive side I never saw. Things like "I love you with every fiber of my being, body and soul" and "I see the love you have for me every time I stare into your eyes" and "Thank you for loving me so much despite my scars/baggage" are so emotionally raw it was very hard to see.

I was wondering if other BS have had similar experiences. It was like seeing another person lay their soul bare.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Though not quite to the same degree...

Yep.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Exact same thing. When ex ww returned after 3 weeks when she abruptly ran off with mr. wealthy and begged to R, I soon started finding letters she wrote to him but never sent (or sent others) crumpled up in the back of the fireplace. They made me feel lower than low. She talked about the thrills and how excited he made her feel... 

That's why when I hear about betrayers having so much "remorse", I also know those feelings they had when betraying were very real to them and deep down they treasure them forever. To say otherwise I think is simply saying what they are supposed to say for the sake of R. I mean, if I rob a bank and beat the cops in a chase it'd be the thrill of a lifetime. But, after being caught and when trying to get out if prison for parole you bet I'm going to have remorse because I want out of jail. But I would never forget that thrill. Never.

It's just something the betrayed have to live with.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> Exact same thing. When ex ww returned after 3 weeks when she abruptly ran off with mr. wealthy and begged to R, I soon started finding letters she wrote to him but never sent (or sent others) crumpled up in the back of the fireplace. They made me feel lower than low. She talked about the thrills and how excited he made her feel...
> 
> That's why when I hear about betrayers having so much "remorse", I also know those feelings they had when betraying were very real to them and deep down they treasure them forever. To say otherwise I think is simply saying what they are supposed to say for the sake of R. I mean, if I rob a bank and beat the cops in a chase it'd be the thrill of a lifetime. But, after being caught and when trying to get out if prison for parole you bet I'm going to have remorse because I want out of jail. But I would never forget that thrill. Never.
> 
> *It's just something the betrayed have to live with*.



While I agree with and like most of this- the section bolded is not entirely accurate. You do not HAVE to live with it. A betrayed spouse can choose to not live with it and rebuild his/her life minus the wayward spouse.

If a BS decides to R, then you are correct. If a WS can understand this along with the rest of the trauma they caused perhaps they can understand the gift of R


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

workindad said:


> If a BS decides to R, then you are correct. If a WS can understand this along with the rest of the trauma they caused perhaps they can understand the gift of R


Let me ask this....

How many betrayers in R really acknowledge the fact that the OP made them feel like no one else ever could, or lied about such feelings?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

workindad said:


> While I agree with and like most of this- the section bolded is not entirely accurate. You do not HAVE to live with it. A betrayed spouse can choose to not live with it and rebuild his/her life minus the wayward spouse.
> 
> If a BS decides to R, then you are correct. If a WS can understand this along with the rest of the trauma they caused perhaps they can understand the gift of R


Whether he or she chooses to divorce or reconcile, a BS will always remember how absolutely, completely, and totally devastated he/she was by the pain of his/her xWS's/WS's betrayal.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Let me ask this....
> 
> How many betrayers in R really acknowledge the fact that the OP made them feel like no one else ever could, or lied about such feelings?


Here's the thing Dawg. If the other man didn't make them feel better than their spouse can, they wouldn't be diddling with OM in the first place. Another way the phrase that question is, "How many betrayeds willing and even fighting for reconciliation realize they are likely plan B from the getgo?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing Dawg. If the other man didn't make them feel better than their spouse can, they wouldn't be diddling with OM in the first place.


:scratchhead: Eh? That there is some circular logic.




ThePheonix said:


> Another way the phrase that question is, "How many betrayeds willing and even fighting for reconciliation realize they are likely plan B from the getgo?


Not enough, unfortunately.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

workindad said:


> While I agree with and like most of this- the section bolded is not entirely accurate. You do not HAVE to live with it. A betrayed spouse can choose to not live with it and rebuild his/her life minus the wayward spouse.
> 
> If a BS decides to R, then you are correct. If a WS can understand this along with the rest of the trauma they caused perhaps they can understand the gift of R



I saw the depth of feeling for the OM emails, in her eyes and with that knew I had always been the steady reliable and sensible choice. That cut deep. It seemed that the giving of so much of herself that she had withheld from me was the cheating and for me, that ended a 25 year relationship.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

2yearsago said:


> Hey, wanting to get experiences and thoughts here without hijacking my other thread.
> 
> The thing that ripped me up as much as anything with my wife's affair 4 years ago was that the correspondence I saw between her and OM, emails, texts, were so full of open emotion. This was the type of stuff I hadn't seen in at least 10 years and honestly I don't know if I ever saw the level of emotional openness ever.
> 
> ...


I think it's typical new relationship limerence going on. Everything feels more intense at the beginning. Over twenty years, love deepens but the fresh excitement dwindles, and many people (especially cheaters) decide this must mean something is wrong with the long-term relationship. Hence we have "I love you but I'm not in love with you," especially when compared to the thrill of an affair.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

When I found some of these notes and messages to the OM it did hurt but in retrospect I wrote much of it off just as puppy love, the thrill of something new etc. I also remember back to when we first started dating hearing and saying many of the same things. 

What and how emotions are displayed is different for each person just as what cuts us to the core is different. Maybe it was just the final deep cut after all the little wounds but for me it was when I knew the OM in her life was lining up his next conquest. 

Mind you my stbx had not admitted or acknowledged the affair and still hasn’t to this day. She was living with him and I knew his pattern so I knew she only had a couple of weeks in “dreamland” before he would toss her. I sent her a text which was probably a mistake that he was seeing another and she should start looking for a new place to live.

Almost immediately she send back a text with how that was his daughter he was with and they were out to dinner, I was making things up, he is a great guy and all sorts of this nonsense. I knew right then and there she had drank too much of the kool-aid. She really was in love with the clown. That single text I think was it for me. 

She was willing to go to those dramatics to defend him. She had no idea what day I was talking about even yet he was out to dinner with his daughter. 10 days later she had her walking papers and he was moving his next conquest into his house.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> Let me ask this....
> 
> How many betrayers in R really acknowledge the fact that the OP made them feel like no one else ever could, or lied about such feelings?


I would imagine that very few if any do.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Whether he or she chooses to divorce or reconcile, a BS will always remember how absolutely, completely, and totally devastated he/she was by the pain of his/her xWS's/WS's betrayal.


Agree, but you do not have to live with the daily reminder. I have not forgotten, but I have moved forward.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Appreciate all the sharing. Clearly this is a hard topic. It cuts close to the heart.

I guess for me, at the end of the day, the revealing of so much raw emotion to another person outside of what to me should be the tightest emotional bond(marriage) is the hardest betrayal.

Maybe I'm old fashioned in what I envision marriage should be but it's my vision so therefore it's right for me.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Appreciate all the sharing. Clearly this is a hard topic. It cuts close to the heart.
> 
> I guess for me, at the end of the day, the revealing of so much raw emotion to another person outside of what to me should be the tightest emotional bond(marriage) is the hardest betrayal.
> 
> Maybe I'm old fashioned in what I envision marriage should be but it's my vision so therefore it's right for me.


As it should be.

And there are lessons there to be learned as well.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Let me ask this....
> 
> How many betrayers in R really acknowledge the fact that the OP made them feel like no one else ever could, or lied about such feelings?


Dude, every affair is as different as every marriage or every divorce. Lumping all WS's together is wrong. Some WS's would give all they have or ever will have to not remember anything about the affair. Very , very few WS's have ever said that an affair was thrilling. Ask some of them.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing Dawg. If the other man didn't make them feel better than their spouse can, they wouldn't be diddling with OM in the first place. Another way the phrase that question is, "How many betrayeds willing and even fighting for reconciliation realize they are likely plan B from the getgo?


You have zero proof of this statement.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Dude, every affair is as different as every marriage or every divorce. Lumping all WS's together is wrong. Some WS's would give all they have or ever will have to not remember anything about the affair. Very , very few WS's have ever said that an affair was thrilling. Ask some of them.


I have. Dozens. My research tells me you are wrong.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Name them


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Name them


Sure.

When I was a mod at a diff infidelity board I actually pm'd a host of both betrayed and betrayers with this exact same question. Those who shared pretty much said it was an exciting time but that they have minimized it for the sake of R.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Sure.
> 
> When I was a mod at a diff infidelity board I actually pm'd a host of both betrayed and betrayers with this exact same question. Those who shared pretty much said it was an exciting time but that they have minimized it for the sake of R.


Tell you what, we have several WS's right here. You can pm them and ask them to comment, and I'm sure most of them would. Ask EI, Regret, Mrs. Mathias, Mrs. Adams, CSS, Pidge and some others how thrilled they were with their affairs. I would be interested. BTW, you haven't named anybody, yet.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Tell you what, we have several WS's right here. You can pm them and ask them to comment, and I'm sure most of them would. Ask EI, Regret, Mrs. Mathias, Mrs. Adams, CSS, Pidge and some others how thrilled they were with their affairs. I would be interested. BTW, you haven't named anybody, yet.


First, if you want to call me a liar, so be it. Just be man enough to do so.

Second, I have pm'd some of those and despite your insistence I betray their confidence, I will not. 

Anything else?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> First, if you want to call me a liar, so be it. Just be man enough to do so.
> 
> Second, I have pm'd some of those and despite your insistence I betray their confidence, I will not.
> 
> Anything else?


Dude, you don't have to do anything at all. I never called you a liar, I only asked for proof. but if you are going to make such a sweeping statement, you need to back it up with facts. I think I can get some of them to come on this thread and talk about it. Want me to do that? I will if it will help.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Dude, you don't have to do anything at all. I never called you a liar, I only asked for proof. but if you are going to make such a sweeping statement, you need to back it up with facts. I think I can get some of them to come on this thread and talk about it. Want me to do that? I will if it will help.


Do whatever you think you have to do.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Rookie4, 

Are you trying to argue that affairs don't involve thrills and excitement for most people in them?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

staystrong said:


> Rookie4,
> 
> Are you trying to argue that affairs don't involve thrills and excitement for most people in them?


If it was not a thrill there would be no affair....period.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> Dude, every affair is as different as every marriage or every divorce. Lumping all WS's together is wrong. Some WS's would give all they have or ever will have to not remember anything about the affair. Very , very few WS's have ever said that an affair was thrilling. Ask some of them.


"Thrilling" was one of the words mine used.

I've seen "thrilling" used frequently to describe what the wayward fells while obsessively reading up on infidelity.

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/thrill-affair-married-women-cheat/story?id=23368772


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> That's why when I hear about betrayers having so much "remorse", I also know those feelings they had when betraying were very real to them and deep down they treasure them forever. To say otherwise I think is simply saying what they are supposed to say for the sake of R. I mean, if I rob a bank and beat the cops in a chase it'd be the thrill of a lifetime. But, after being caught and when trying to get out if prison for parole you bet I'm going to have remorse because I want out of jail. But I would never forget that thrill. Never.


:iagree:

I would agree very much with the above with one slight modification. Rarely the aftermath of the affair becomes intimately associated with the affair itself in the WS’s mind. 

It’s like enjoying a great meal and then getting food poisoning. My wife made some microwave buttered popcorn when I had the flu and I still don’t like buttered popcorn 20 years later.



Rookie4 said:


> Tell you what, we have several WS's right here. You can pm them and ask them to comment, and I'm sure most of them would. Ask EI, Regret, Mrs. Mathias, Mrs. Adams, CSS, Pidge and some others how thrilled they were with their affairs. I would be interested. BTW, you haven't named anybody, yet.


Tears comes to mind as a WS that would not have fond memories. She had an ONS and immediately felt terrible about it. She told her husband right away. She and her children have paid the price ever since. Being sweet talked by the OM was thrilling enough to have sex with him. The sex itself may have been good or bad. I doubt that Tears looks back fondly at those few hours. The memory probably makes her feel stupid. 

But Tears had a well-developed conscious. That’s why she confessed right away. She got food poisoning. Most cheaters don’t.

Cheaters as a group tend to have a less developed conscious. They also have an above average ability to compartmentalize and rationalize. These traits not only make them more likely to cheat but to separate the affair and its aftermath in their mind. Therefore most can have fond memories of the thrill. 

One of the WS listed above had a fantastic time on an ONS and bragged about it. They told their BS that they would have run away with the AP if they had only asked. They have spent decades dealing with their BS’s pain and doing penance. The thrill has probably been kicked out of them by now but they’re the rare exception.

The AP becoming an a$$hole would also make the WS look at the affair in a negative light. But the typical case is that the AP was great and the WS pines away for them and struggles with NC after the affair ends. If NC works or there are only a few emails then the AP will always remain young and hot as the years go by. 

If you got caught robbing a bank of course you would go back in time and not rob it if that were possible.

A test for the WS is for them to ask *themselves *this: 

If they could go back in time would they:
1.	Never have the affair
2.	Have the affair but end it before they were caught
3.	Have and continue the affair but be more careful
*In all three cases they are never caught.*

I can't see many WS picking #1 because they’ve already rejected that option in real life. They thought they would never get caught and had an affair. WS that had a LTA or serial affairs made that choice many times. That choice would be #2 or #3.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

And you are still married to her because?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> If it was not a thrill there would be no affair....period.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will answer this for me not for anyone else

For me in the beginning it was thrilling.Or so I thought

The realization was it was delusional and foolish

In the end it was exhausting.

I do not dream of what could have been. Only what should have been

55


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Rookie4 said:


> You have zero proof of this statement.



You have zero proof that he has zero proof.. 



Rookie, I am noticing a trend with your posts. Do you?


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Whether he or she chooses to divorce or reconcile, a BS will always remember how absolutely, completely, and totally devastated he/she was by the pain of his/her xWS's/WS's betrayal.


And this is the part that makes it next to impossible to ever see having a real, tight, emotionally connected, trustful relationship with the person ever again. 

Again, maybe I am old fashioned but if you are going to CHOOSE to share your life with someone I want someone who I know has my best interests at heart. Someone who doesn't see how bad they hurt me yet continue to selfishly get another.

Then there's the lingering feeling of being 2nd best to your spouse. Being the backup plan. Yuck.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

I believe some love the thrill of the secrecy and the lying. I think some have poor marriages (NOT justifying) where they just genuinely don't care. They may not get the thrill from secrecy that others do. 

I do believe that most cheaters follow the script that is so often mentioned here, but not all. 

Rookie made a list of some WS last page. I am familiar with almost all of their stories. There are posters he listed where I would run away, were I their BS. I don't buy what they say. But ther are others that I believe, again gut feeling. Not every cheater is the same. Nor is every BS.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

I think most WS get some sort of thrill from the A. Some feel guilty others will not. 

My WW never liked holding hands, public display of affections or anything like that. Valentines day cards, birthday cards, anniversary cards she would give me were always the joke ones you know the funny kind. I would give her serious ones in the beginning of our marriage. Even write deep sentiments on them as well. All that ended one Valentines Day (which turned out to be my DDay). She gave me the usual joke card. She gave POSOM two separate cards. One all romantic and the other very sexually suggestive. Talk about a bag over the head punch in the face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

My erstwhile spouse had her affair when I was ill and Doctors were telling her that I was more likely to die than survive. She said she needed a few hours away from the physical and emotional demands of being with a dying man, sex was good too. In her mind she was on a vacation, it was nice while it lasted but it wasn't forever and she was going home afterward.
While she tried to justify her affair she defended him with the argument that he was simply providing a service and no emotions were involved. She had a collapse and breakdown shortly after I found out about her affair. She has said many times that the pain she caused to me turned any positives she felt about the affair to ash.


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