# Opinions Please?



## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

My wife and I are currently at a bit of a crossroads. In our discussions, she wrote this:

I think it's important for you to know what I think an ideal marriage should look like:

1. We have our own separate lives and make time for each other on weekends to go on dates and catch up on our crazy lives
2. We encourage each other to travel, grow, and do things that fulfill the soul
3. We give each other the benefit of the doubt and try not to take things too personally (like telling you I love you after that argument in the garage)
4. Accepting each other for who we are (you might be lovey dovey and emotional, I might be more standoffish and pragmatic, but we should love this about each other and accept it).*

Here's how I see things, but want to see what people's opinions are:

1. We should have a partnership, spending time together while allowing time for the other to have some space. We got married to spend our lives together, not separate except for weekends. 

2. I agree, but again, shouldn't the focus be on together with side hobbies, etc, rather than do all our own stuff without the other?

3. Agreed.

4. How am I supposed to love that she is standoffish? I like pragmatic, but I also want to feel like I have a wife. 

There are a whole plethora of other things going on around this, but what do you think? Am I wrong? Is she? Both of us? Neither?

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EDIT
This came out later in the discussion and it was suggested I add it to the original post:

In 2010, we were both unfaithful to each other, with me being the first and her second. We went through marriage counselling and got through it alive. She told me afterwards that if I cheated on her again, as long as I was honest about it, she might be able to get through it (she is super big on honesty, and rightly so). Fast forward to 2017. I start feeling paranoid about her being around other guys or being somewhere else for no apparent reason. I discover over the summer that I may have some depression / anxiety issues. This past fall, she went on a school trip with her Grade 5 students to an overnight camp. I should mention that I was first unfaithful at an overnight camp, and this was the first time she was going on one. I lost it. I was balling my eyes out talking to her on the phone, and it continued after she came back (early to surprise me). That's really when this whole space thing went down. She needed more, I wanted less, and the downward spiral continued. We're now in counselling again. Since the counselling has started, it seems like she has less and less interest in me and our marriage. She said if things don't get better in 2-3 years, she has to leave (I get it, but weird to say when we're trying to work through things with a counsellor). She totally forgot about the homework we were supposed to do, and I had to guide the follow-up conversation to make sure we were still making progress.

RE-EDIT:
Some more information about the time between 2010 and 2017 as replied to another poster:

We went through counselling for a few sessions, work on building trust over again, and both eventually forgave the other, moving on from the situation. Thongs got much better, we decided to have our first child, and then later out second. There was no resentment held afterwards (although I'm suspicious that she still has some).

I treat my wife with the utmost respect, and often show and tell her that I love her. She's more of the standoffish and pragmatic type (as she put it), whereas I'm more the emotional romantic. 

I've been helping tons with the home and kids (the kitchen is pretty much my domain- cooking and cleaning). We try our best to share responsibilities and ask for help when we need it.

I've been asking for more time for the two of us, but she's been asking for more time alone. 

Our relationship in that 7 year gap has been strong. We don't fight well sometimes (particularly when she's done something to upset me), but aside from that, it's been a very happy and stong few years. 

There have been some underlying issues, like her level of affection vs. mine, and my sensitivity to her sometimes brash personality, but for the most part everything has been fine.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

1. How's the intimacy in the marriage? Are you two having frequent sex?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You must know, already, that both of you are right. Each of you is right for yourself.

The question is can you two find adequate common ground to make a go of it.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

And by the way, I think both of you are totally wrong. But that just means I could not be happily married to either one of you two.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You each have very different views of marriage. Both are fine - IF you are in agreement or can reach a happy compromise. Personally, I favor your view, OP, and would not settle for much less.

If you have kids, then finding a compromise is a higher priority than otherwise, as it may be easier and better to move on rather than try to change things. I would also wonder what she is doing with all her separate time - perhaps it includes another man? I would at least be suspicious enough to rule out that possibility before entertaining her view of marriage, or any compromise.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I would agree more with your ideal marriage. For me, spending the week away and then spend time together on the weekends only does not compute with me. This makes your W ideal marriage for me less than ideal.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> 1. How's the intimacy in the marriage? Are you two having frequent sex?


We were, about once a week. We've had a 5 week dry spell because of what's been going on though. I don't know what things look like moving forward.

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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> You each have very different views of marriage. Both are fine - IF you are in agreement or can reach a happy compromise. Personally, I favor your view, OP, and would not settle for much less.
> 
> If you have kids, then finding a compromise is a higher priority than otherwise, as it may be easier and better to move on rather than try to change things. I would also wonder what she is doing with all her separate time - perhaps it includes another man? I would at least be suspicious enough to rule out that possibility before entertaining her view of marriage, or any compromise.


We do have kids - 5 and 2 years old. She just wants space from me - we've talked a lot about the other man thing, and I have no reason to believe she is (although that doesn't help my anxiety). She just wants alone time, for me to be more independent, etc. She wants more time away from each other so she can do what she wants without feeling guilty. 

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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Well, she probably is having an affair.

But that still doesn't change the mismatch in your definitions of marriage.

You have several issues, sadly.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I do think a couple needs some time apart for their own hobbies and friends. How much apart time is reasonable? That is where you negotiate, subject to the limitations of taking care of the home, kids, and each other. Also, it may depend on what you spend that time doing - is it non-harmful to the marriage? If you DO negotiate a compromise, I think it is important that YOU get (and USE) as much time apart as she does, and develop your own interests and friendships, as that seems to be one of her issues.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

Okay, so it sounds like the general consensus is that both are okay, and we just have to decide if we can compromise? What would that look like? What could I suggest?

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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

..


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> I do think a couple needs some time apart for their own hobbies and friends. How much apart time is reasonable? That is where you negotiate, subject to the limitations of taking care of the home, kids, and each other. Also, it may depend on what you spend that time doing - is it non-harmful to the marriage? If you DO negotiate a compromise, I think it is important that YOU get (and USE) as much time apart as she does, and develop your own interests and friendships, as that seems to be one of her issues.


I agree. I am definitely one that revels in their alone time. I have been exploring and doing my own hobbies for ages; guitar, gardening, bread-making... actually she always says she's jealous of how many interests I have. 

I don't care if she wants to go out for an evening or whatever. Maybe an overnight trip once a year. For me, I would love to connect each day. It wouldn't have to be all evening or anything, just a little bit after the kids go down or something. Some quality time on the weekend would be good too, rather than just sitting and watching a show together. 

The home and kids aren't an issue as far as taking cate of them. The activities are non-harmful to the marriage (jam band, drink with the girls, exercise).

I am definitely trying to get as much as she does. In fact, because she wanted more space, etc, I started connecting with old friends, talking to my brother, exercising more.... It doesn't fill that hole that's there though, making me feel like she doesn't want me around.

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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

Slartibartfast said:


> Well, you have an image of an ideal marriage. What's her image look like. Don't assume. Show her your and get her to show you hers. Be precise, because unless I'm misreading something, you aren't.
> 
> In your ideal: "I might be more standoffish and pragmatic, but we should love this about each other and accept it..." But in your response to yourself, you say: "How am I supposed to love that she is standoffish?" According to you ideal, you just should; that's how.
> 
> ...


Sorry, the first set is from her, the second set is my feelings about what she said. 

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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> My wife and I are currently at a bit of a crossroads. In our discussions, she wrote this:
> 1. We have our own separate lives and make time for each other on weekends to go on dates and catch up on our crazy lives
> 2. We encourage each other to travel, grow, and do things that fulfill the soul
> 3. We give each other the benefit of the doubt and try not to take things too personally (like telling you I love you after that argument in the garage)
> 4. Accepting each other for who we are (you might be lovey dovey and emotional, I might be more standoffish and pragmatic, but we should love this about each other and accept it).*


Your wife sounds a lot like a long-term ex-girlfriend I had. She was very independent, career-focused, and didn't understand why we couldn't just flick the switch and be friends when she decided to move for a better job. When she was thinking about leaving, she came home once, embraced me with tears in her eyes. I thought that she was finally feeling emotional about us until she spoke and said that she felt sad because her supervisor didn't treat her fair that day.  In other words, empathy was not high on her list of attributes. 

In your situation, I guess that you're often wondering if she really loves you. She might not be able to love you or anyone else in a very romantic way.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Check the phone bill


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

ButtPunch said:


> Check the phone bill


Seriously guys, I have talked this to death with her... this is not the issue. 

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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

Steve1000 said:


> Your wife sounds a lot like a long-term ex-girlfriend I had. She was very independent, career-focused, and didn't understand why we couldn't just flick the switch and be friends when she decided to move for a better job. When she was thinking about leaving, she came home once, embraced me with tears in her eyes. I thought that she was finally feeling emotional about us until she spoke and said that she felt sad because her supervisor didn't treat her fair that day.  In other words, empathy was not high on her list of attributes.
> 
> In your situation, I guess that you're often wondering if she really loves you. She might not be able to love you or anyone else in a very romantic way.


Yeah, I am. At the same time it's also something that we've talked about at length - her vocabulary for showing love is very different than mine. I wouldn't mind so much if she showed signs of wanting to hang out and be together, rather than making more reasons and ideas to be separate from each other. 

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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Talking with her is not how you discover whether or not she is having an affair. She is not going to tell you the truth if she is having an affair.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Talking with her is not how you discover whether or not she is having an affair. She is not going to tell you the truth if she is having an affair.


I realize that, but I'm very serious about how deep we've gone into this. All you're doing right now is feeding my paranoia and anxiety, so I would appreciate if we could stop mentioning that. 

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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

I should also mention that this has really only come up in the last year or so. Prior to that, she had never asked for this much space. 

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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Are you needy? Sounds like she isn't attractive to you. I also second checking her cell phone. She wants to be away from you so she can spend time with someone else.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> Are you needy? Sounds like she isn't attractive to you. I also second checking her cell phone. She wants to be away from you so she can spend time with someone else.


Admittedly, I am, and she has told me that she doesn't like it. 

Again, I would prefer to leave this out of the conversation. Please believe me when I say that this is not what's going on. I don't want to spend all my time explaining why and what conversations we had - I would rather stick to the issue. 

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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> Seriously guys, I have talked this to death with her... this is not the issue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


Seriously, we've heard that a thousand times from betrayed spouses like you.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

It is not paranoia. Unfortunately.

You should calm down, and simply take logical steps to discover what she has been up to without involving her.

It is my opinion you do have the right to know.

People here have a great deal of experience with discovering what their spouses are doing without letting the spouse know they are being investigated. I also think knowing will help you deal with your stress.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Seriously, we've heard that a thousand times from betrayed spouses like you.


Okay, so we're in marriage counselling. A big issue there was distrust. I have checked her phone. Multiple times. I've checked her location. Multiple times. Shall I go on?

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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Then this is what you do. You become a strong and independent man. You hit the gym 5x a week. You run 5 miles 3x a week. You get in the most amazing shape you can be in. Your gym and eating routine is now your new addiction. You go buy that new truck/car you've been eying. Once you got your body fat down below 10%, you buy new clothes that make you look buff. If you have glasses, you get lasik if it's an option. Can't get rid of that fat around your waist, you go do cool sculpting. You concentrate on yourself. Let her do her thing and you do your thing. Don't tell her what you're doing.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I don't know about any of the cheating stuff, that I would even be concerned about any of this. But it does sound like your marriage is at a cross roads. She may in fact be at a point in her life where reality is hitting home and she is not interested in dealing with it. She might be feeling pinned down and trapped by two younger children and a marriage to a man who wants more than she is willing to give. The bottom line is that you cannot force some one else to compromise of they do not want to. It sounds like the two of you may not be as compatible as you both thought. So at this point the question for you is, can you accept your wife's thoughts on the matter and if not what does that mean for you? Then you need to discuss the reality with her. If this is something you cannot accept in your mind, and she is unwilling to compromise your choice is already made for you. Otherwise all you can do is work on it.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Why are you so needy?

What things do you do that show neediness?


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

OP, my ex was much like your wife (though she didn’t want to see me too much on the weekends either) and I am more like you. We never could agree on what that vision of an “ideal” relationship should look like. We had different attachment styles and opposing emotional requirements. When they’re very far apart like that, it’s tough to impossible to work out. I wish you luck.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> Seriously guys, I have talked this to death with her... this is not the issue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


Trying to find out if a cheater is cheating by talking about it to them is as useless as the teats on a bore hog.
All that does is drives the affair further underground and makes it harder to find. Only 20% of affairs are ever discovered by the betrayed spouse.
Wanting space is one of the biggest red flags for cheating. Has she told you she loves you but isn’t in love with you yet? Cutting you off sexually is also a top cheating sign. What you are saying has been said here thousands of times and almost always ends up being an affair. That’s why you are being encouraged to indepently verify what’s going on. Never mention it to her again or tell her what you know and how no matter what.

Does she go out with her girl friends?


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

soulpotato said:


> OP, my ex was much like your wife (though she didn’t want to see me too much on the weekends either) and I am more like you. We never could agree on what that vision of an “ideal” relationship should look like. We had different attachment styles and opposing emotional requirements. When they’re very far apart like that, it’s tough to impossible to work out. I wish you luck.


Thanks for sharing. It doesn't give me much hope, but definitely some solace knowing there are others experiencing this as well.

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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

Chaparral said:


> Trying to find out if a cheater is cheating by talking about it to them is as useless as the years on a bore hog.
> All that does is drives the affair further underground and makes it harder to find. Only 20% of affairs are ever discovered by the betrayed spouse.
> Wanting space is one of the biggest red flags for cheating. Has she told you she loves you but isn’t in love with you yet? Cutting you off sexually is also a top cheating sign. What you are saying has been said here thousands of times and almost always ends up being an affair. That’s why you are being encouraged to indepently verify what’s going on. Never mention it to her again or tell her what you know and how no matter what.
> 
> Does she go out with her girl friends?


Please see my last post regarding this. 

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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Does she distance the more you pursue?


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> Then this is what you do. You become a strong and independent man. You hit the gym 5x a week. You run 5 miles 3x a week. You get in the most amazing shape you can be in. Your gym and eating routine is now your new addiction. You go buy that new truck/car you've been eying. Once you got your body fat down below 10%, you buy new clothes that make you look buff. If you have glasses, you get lasik if it's an option. Can't get rid of that fat around your waist, you go do cool sculpting. You concentrate on yourself. Let her do her thing and you do your thing. Don't tell her what you're doing.


I've actually been starting this process over the last month, as hard as it is, and was totally hands off with her. Then she thought I was mad at her the whole time. I'm going to keep going, because I need to so it for myself, but it isn't making the relationship part easier. Great advice though. 

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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> Thanks for sharing. It doesn't give me much hope, but definitely some solace knowing there are others experiencing this as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


I know; I’m sorry. Maybe a good marriage counselor could offer a professional outside perspective and some assistance.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> Please see my last post regarding this.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


You need to start at the beginning and give more detail about the whole situation.
For example, a workplace affair can be close to impossible to catch.
Another example regards your neediness. Often that isn’t true either and is simply a reaction to the spouse withdrawing. 
You need to draw a more complete picture.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

anchorwatch said:


> Why are you so needy?
> 
> What things do you do that show neediness?


I'm just a romantic I guess, wanting to spend time with her, and then when she asks for increasingly more time apart, it makes me feel like she doesn't want to be with me.

I ask to spend time with her, sometimes when she asks to go out with not too much notice, I say okay but she can tell I'm upset. 

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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

anchorwatch said:


> Does she distance the more you pursue?


Yeah, she does. 

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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> Yeah, I am. At the same time it's also something that we've talked about at length - her vocabulary for showing love is very different than mine. I wouldn't mind so much if she showed signs of wanting to hang out and be together, rather than making more reasons and ideas to be separate from each other.


This brings back some memories of my ex gf being uncomfortable with me expressing that I wish we could spend an entire day together. Has your wife always been like this?


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Why are you so needy?
> 
> What things do you do that show neediness?


In the OP's defense, having a spouse that is a bit cool and aloof often does make one feel somewhat insecure. I know that in this case, we don't know which came first.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

Steve1000 said:


> This brings back some memories of my ex gf being uncomfortable with me expressing that I wish we could spend an entire day together. Has your wife always been like this?


She has always been less affectionate, but never wanted so much space. 

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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

Steve1000 said:


> In the OP's defense, having a spouse that is a bit cool and aloof often does make one feel somewhat insecure. I know that in this case, we don't know which came first.


Thanks Steve... tbh I'm not really sure what came first. I want to say her aloofness, but it might because that's from my perspective. 

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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> She has always been less affectionate, but never wanted so much space.


I'm going to chime in here. In the discussions you've had, have you asked her why she now wants more space? Can you recall if there was a particular situation that triggered her to want even more distance now than previously?

As a woman who was involved with a needy guy many years ago, I can tell you that after several years of experiencing his neediness, I just had enough and wanted a lot more space. There wasn't a specific situation that made me pull away; I just decided I needed more breathing room.

Please keep in mind you asked for opinions. There are things you have posted that could indicate an affair, even if it's not actually physical at this point. Your wife could have a crush on a guy at work. I'm not saying this is the case, but people responding to what you wrote are suggesting it could be a possibility.

What got my attention was the fact that you wanted to shut down any such speculation of a possible affair. You haven't given a great deal of information, and the title of your thread asks for opinions. As a stranger out in cyberspace, my opinions are subjective. I get a sense that you are fearful of even considering there might be someone else in the picture. I'm not saying there IS an affair, but it is possible. I frequently tell posters if they don't like the answers, they shouldn't ask the questions.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> We do have kids - 5 and 2 years old. She just wants space from me - we've talked a lot about the other man thing, and I have no reason to believe she is (although that doesn't help my anxiety). She just wants alone time, for me to be more independent, etc. She wants more time away from each other so she can do what she wants without feeling guilty.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


" I want space". A person that is in love with their spouse does NOT feel that way. 

I want space" is classic cheater speak. I suspect workplace affair because she will spend time with her home husband on weekends, and work husband during week. 

No sex for 5 weeks. Dead giveaway she's getting it someplace else. Once a week? That's not enough for me.....

CHeater. SHe's a cheater. 90%.

Read your second page. You're "certain" she's not cheating. You're "certain" she'd never do that. So were a million other guys.
HOWEVER:
Let's assume she's not cheating. 

The fact is that from what I've read she is:

not attracted to you.
Doesn't like having sex with you. (5 weeks, that's horrible)
Doesn't want to spend time with you.
Goes out WITHOUT you.
Hates your attention you TRY to give her.
Won't give you the intimacy and emotional support you need.

You have to ask yourself, "Why am I staying in a marriage like this?". It's because you are afraid to start over. It's a helluva hard thing to start over. Because you don't KNOW where or when you'd find the next woman you'd fall in love with.
Well, those are not good reasons to stay in a marriage that you DO NOT get your needs met it.
I'm not telling you to divorce, but I do think there's a good chance she's cheating with a guy at work, and that you just haven't caught it. 

You are NOT getting any sex from your wife. You are in a sexless marriage. Very seldom on here have I ever heard that change. Something to think about.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

@Prodigal
I think with regards as to why she wants more space, I think below might answer your questions.

Thanks for sharing your experience - it is really helpful to hear other perspectives from the other side. 

I know I asked for opinions, and they are welcome. All I'm saying is this one is not helpful. I don't mind having the idea suggested, but I find it unhelpful when I seriously don't think that's the issue. You're right though, this is a forum, and if people want to share their thoughts, than I shouldn't censor them.

The reason I'm shutting down the speculation, is because of our past and the conversations we've had revolving around it. See below for more information.
@Evinrude58
I get it, there are lots of signs, but again, I don't think this is the case. You do, however bring up a good point. Why am I staying in this marriage. I'm a little confused about that myself actually. I think to explain, I need to give more background information about our long history.

In 2010, we were both unfaithful to each other, with me being the first and her second. We went through marriage counselling and got through it alive. She told me afterwards that if I cheated on her again, as long as I was honest about it, she might be able to get through it (she is super big on honesty, and rightly so). Fast forward to 2017. I start feeling paranoid about her being around other guys or when she was somewhere else for no apparent reason. I discover over the summer that I may have some depression / anxiety issues. This past fall, she went on a school trip with her Grade 5 students to an overnight camp. I should mention that I was first unfaithful at an overnight camp, and this was the first time she was going on one. I lost it. I was balling my eyes out talking to her on the phone, and it continued after she came back (early to surprise me). That's really when this whole space thing went down. She needed more, I wanted less, and the downward spiral continued. We're now in counselling again. Since the counselling has started, it seems like she has less and less interest in me and our marriage. She said if things don't get better in 2-3 years, she has to leave (I get it, but weird to say when we're trying to work through things with a counsellor). She totally forgot about the homework we were supposed to do, and I had to guide the follow-up conversation to make sure we were still making progress.

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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> In 2010, we were both unfaithful to each other, with me being the first and her second. We went through marriage counselling and got through it alive. She told me afterwards that if I cheated on her again, as long as I was honest about it, she might be able to get through it (she is super big on honesty, and rightly so). Fast forward to 2017. I start feeling paranoid about her being around other guys or somewhere for no apparent reason. I discover over the summer that I may have some depression / anxiety issues. This past fall, she went on a school trip with her Grade 5 students to an overnight camp. I should mention that I was first unfaithful at an overnight camp, and this was the first time she was going on one. I lost it. I was balling my eyes out talking to her on the phone, and it continued after she came back (early to surprise me). That's really when this whole space thing went down. She needed more, I wanted less, and the downward spiral continued. We're now in counselling again. Since the counselling has started, it seems like she has less and less interest in me and our marriage. She said if things don't get better in 2-3 years, she has to leave (I get it, but weird to say when we're trying to work through things with a counsellor). She totally forgot about the homework we were supposed to do, and I had to guide the follow-up conversation to make sure we were still making progress.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk



This is critical information that should have been included in our original post. You really need to edit your original post and add this entire paragraph to it. It may or may not change the advice you are getting but it will provide a better picture of what is currently happening in your relationship.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

Lila said:


> This is critical information that should have been included in our original post. You really need to edit your original post and add this entire paragraph to it. It may or may not change the advice you are getting but it will provide a better picture of what is currently happening in your relationship.


Thanks for the feedback. I'll do that now

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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> @Prodigal
> I think with regards as to why she wants more space, I think below might answer your questions.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience - it is really helpful to hear other perspectives from the other side.
> ...


I think what is happening now is an indication that you never did actually make it through the event of 2010 at all. That essentially ended your marriage, and changed your relationship. I suspect it has been in a slow death spiral ever since.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

gardensphotosguitar said:


> Since the counselling has started, it seems like she has less and less interest in me and our marriage. She said if things don't get better in 2-3 years, she has to leave (I get it, but weird to say when we're trying to work through things with a counsellor). She totally forgot about the homework we were supposed to do, and I had to guide the follow-up conversation to make sure we were still making progress.


Thank you for that additional information. Let's say she's not having an affair. I don't know if she is or not, but I'm going to approach this as she's not. Again, I'm giving my take on your relationship from a female's perspective. She's gone. She has checked out. In fact, from what you have posted, she is merely going through the motions. I doubt she "forgot" the homework assignment; she just doesn't want to be bothered.

She's going to the counselor just to toss you a bone. I don't put much credence in what a person says; I watch their behavior. And everything your wife is doing says, "I'm done" from where I'm sitting. I wouldn't hold out for her to wait 2-3 years to pull the plug. You are trying to save the marriage. It doesn't sound like there's anything left to save. Again, I'm reacting to this as a woman. If I was behaving like your wife, I can tell you I'd already have one foot out the door.

But the fact she is still playing along with this makes me think there very well may be someone waiting in the wings. JMO.


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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

..


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

GPG,

What was ever done to recover from the affairs both of you had?

Was there full disclosure and exposure or was it rugswept?

Tamat


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Aspergers


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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

There is a 7 year gap in describing your marriage.
You jump from both of you having an affair back to back to you being paranoid about your W needing space and being around other guys.
Maybe you could fill in some blanks....like 7 years worth.

How did you both recover from the affairs....you mentioned you went to marriage counselling.....did this help or did you both acquiesce each other and then rug sweep to move on.

Was there resentment built up between the 2 of you because of the affairs.....resentment is a huge relationship killer

How do you treat your wife?.....with respect...is yours a marriage of equality or do you feel more superior and entitled.
Bare with me here....don’t take offence at the above questions.....they are meant to paint a picture as to why your wife has less affection for you and is needing distance now.

Have you been a helpful husband and Father with 2 little ones in the house?

Do you make time for just the 2 of you without the kids?

The 7 years in between having the affairs and your wife losing affection and being distant may have well been a build up of any or all of the above. It all could have chipped away slowly at her love for you......and this is the result.
The reason I’m asking these questions is it happened to me......treated with no respect, H acted superior and entitled, verbal abuse, no help with kids, very little sex( from him).....all of this chipped away at my love for him and I started acting like your wife.

I checked out....I detached.....distanced myself, showed him no affection, wanted to do things by myself.....in other words.....I’m a walk away wife.
I tried on numerous occasions to try and talk about how unhappy I was and how could we fix things......I got stonewalled every single time.
He shut me down saying that there was nothing wrong with him....I was making something out of nothing and our marriage was fine....he was ok with it...so it’s my problem.

I’m only filling you in on my situation so maybe you can put yours into perspective. This could be a build up of resentment and losing love for you for many reasons.....not an affair .

How was your relationship with your wife in that 7 year gap....be honest.....this may hold the key as to why she is acting the way she is right now.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

A few home truths:

You both are cheaters and have no business being in a marriage.

I doubt that the true aftermath of both of your affairs was properly dealt with - else you might have been divorced long ago.

You can go on ad infinitum about how you have dealt with the subject of infidelity by "asking her" and "checking her phone" etc, but the truth is that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck even if you feel sure that it is a dog. She wants space. You both cheated before. She wants other company (men's probably). She is distant and spends time elsewhere. She is throwing up all kinds of red flags in what she says and does. The best advice you can get is to simply verify - trust but verify if you like. So just check as per the advice being given to you and dont alert her to your checking.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

chillymorn69 said:


> Aspergers


It's funny you mention that... she's said on a couple of occasions that she's wondered if she was somewhere on the spectrum...

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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

cma62 said:


> There is a 7 year gap in describing your marriage.
> You jump from both of you having an affair back to back to you being paranoid about your W needing space and being around other guys.
> Maybe you could fill in some blanks....like 7 years worth.
> 
> ...


 @TAMAT
I suppose your questions will be answered here as well. 

We went through counselling for a few sessions, work on building trust over again, and both eventually forgave the other, moving on from the situation. Thongs got much better, we decided to have our first child, and then later out second. There was no resentment held afterwards (although I'm suspicious that she still has some).

I treat my wife with the utmost respect, and often show and tell her that I love her. She's more of the standoffish and pragmatic type (as she put it), whereas I'm more the emotional romantic. 

I've been helping tons with the home and kids (the kitchen is pretty much my domain- cooking and cleaning). We try our best to share responsibilities and ask for help when we need it.

I've been asking for more time for the two of us, but she's been asking for more time alone. 

Our relationship in that 7 year gap has been strong. We don't fight well sometimes (particularly when she's done something to upset me), but aside from that, it's been a very happy and stong few years. 

There have been some underlying issues, like her level of affection vs. mine, and my sensitivity to her sometimes brash personality, but for the most part everything has been fine. 

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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

manfromlamancha said:


> A few home truths:
> 
> You both are cheaters and have no business being in a marriage.
> 
> ...


I don't know if I agree with your first statement - that was rather harsh considering you don't know me. 

Your second statement may be true, so thank you for your insight. 

Thank you for your opinion in the third paragraph, but for the aforementioned reasons, and the fact that she is generally not an affectionate person, I still believe that this is not the situation. Call me naive, but being in my shoes and having gone through this already and knowing who she is, I believe her strongly. 

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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

@GARdenphotosguitar
Thank for the additional info. If she sees you in the same way you see you....things seem like they worked for 7 years.

You have a 2 year old.....could your wife be suffering from PPD, a thyroid disorder, or another illness that could make her so apathetic...Aspergers has been mentioned.

How is her energy level and enthusiasm whilst dealing with the children....if she is happy go lucky and energetic dealing with the kids and indifferent when dealing with you.....huge read flag.

If you are in this much turmoil over the way your wife is acting towards you right now.....what do you have to lose to investigate to see if there is another man in her life.
I know you vehemently deny this or have been lied to when asking your wife this......but at least you could cross it off the list and move onto other areas that may be making her not give a **** about you.....which her actions are displaying.

To not investigate this despite your adamant denials......is going to eat away at you till you get to the truth.
Just do it and feel good that you can eliminate this as a possibility......OR.....deal with the fact it is happening and you have your answer.


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

cma62 said:


> @GARdenphotosguitar
> Thank for the additional info. If she sees you in the same way you see you....things seem like they worked for 7 years.
> 
> You have a 2 year old.....could your wife be suffering from PPD, a thyroid disorder, or another illness that could make her so apathetic...Aspergers has been mentioned.
> ...


Also funny that you mention the thyroid thing - she was born with congenital hypothyroidism. I'm curious about the Aspergers thing, as two of you (aside from her) have actually mentioned this. Actually now that I think about it, it might be relevant to mention that we both smoke marijuana daily... might this be influencing her as well?

She is definitely energetic and enthusiastic with the kids. I wouldn't say that she's indifferent when dealing with me, but the intensity is definitely dialed down big time.

I have done some checking (call records, text messages, location when she says she's going somewhere - all at different times throughout the last 5 months on and off). All of it checked out. She also leaves her phone out all the time knowing that I know her screen lock password. If everyone is insistent the importance of looking into it more, what other things would you recommend I check?

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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

I have never smoked or ingested Marijuana so I can’t personally comment.
One of my sons suffered from Social Anxiety and smoked it constantly in his late teens.....the result.....he was a paranoid depressed mess.
This might be affecting your wife and yourself like this as well.....maybe take a break from it fior a while and see if anything changes.

Seems like you have been doing some investigative work and came up with nothing.
It is possible an affair could be taking place in the workplace during working hours....even if you checked her e mail...they could be communicating through their workplace E mails.

A VAR in her car may uncover something....look into the legal ramification in your home State.

So ...scenario that there is no affair uncovered....you still need to get to the bottom of your wife’s lack of affection and needing more time alone.
MC may help with this.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

GardensPhotosGuitar,

What does she say to you about the likely fact that she was spontaneous, orgasmic and affectionate and all that for OM when she had her affair? Why can't she get the same feeling for you, and if she can't why does she stay with you?

Tamat


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## gardensphotosguitar (May 15, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> GardensPhotosGuitar,
> 
> What does she say to you about the likely fact that she was spontaneous, orgasmic and affectionate and all that for OM when she had her affair? Why can't she get the same feeling for you, and if she can't why does she stay with you?
> 
> Tamat


Good question to ask - kind of scared to though. I'm afraid it might set off a fuse, but a good point to bring up to a supposedly unaffectionate person. I'll try and work up the courage. Thanks.

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