# Stranger in law ruining marriage



## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

Married 19 years with two kids, boy 16 and a girl 9 yrs old. We were a couple years into the marriage and I landed an airline job and the wife got accepted into residency. It was an extremely exciting time and we both looked forward to a successful and fulfilling future. Our boy was 6 mos old at the time and this presented a problem. Neither of our careers could be put on hold without serious consequences to our future prospects so we invited her mother to come live with us as caretaker. My wife was originally from southern Russia and her entire family lived over there, none of them had any English skills and I spoke zero Russian. Her mom was unimposing, tried to stay out of my way, helped around the house and was a huge blessing to my wife. I was traveling 4 days out of each week so it put my mind to rest that she was there. My relationship with MIL consisted of hello, goodbye, I am going out, etc. It made for awkward times but generally I could deal with it as I was most times away from home.
Fast forward a few years and we are in a new city, wife in fellowship and me with a new international cargo job. We were leaning on my MIL quite a bit and needed her badly. MIL husband was back in Russia and we were sending money over there regularly to pay for his living and home upkeep. But soon my FIL was in country too and we all lived under one roof. He was a difficult man and very unhappy here in the states. I was traveling overseas 20 days out of the month so once again the arrangement although irksome was tolerable since I did not have to deal with them on a daily basis. Neither my MIL or FIL bothered to learn english. In fact they refused to try to integrate into the Russian community or try to make a life for themselves.
They were essentially strangers to me as communication was impossible.
The MIL and FIL had major marriage issues and most time hated each other. As long as FIL was fed had smokes and alcohol he was content but his unhappiness made wife and MIL miserable. Finally my wife said that she couldn't handle me away all the time and wanted my at home full time. So we/I made the fateful decision. I left my job during a downturn and the airline was paying for people to retire or leave early. I was now a stay at home dad and were were to home school.
The deal was that MIL and FIL were to go back home and wife and I would make it work. Fast forward 12 years and here we are with MIL still in the house and FIL having passed shortly after I quit the job. Fifteen years the MIL has been in the house and still doesnt speak a lick of english. She is on the phone to her 8 siblings in Russia chating all the time.
In fifteen years I have spoken to the pest control guy more than my MIL and she has no interest in changing that. She has zero interest in moving on with her life and is oblivious or doesn't care that I find her presence annoying and and bothersome. Of course now my relationship with my wife is suffering as I am irritable and now resenting past decisions made and promises not kept.
When I bring up the issue I am told that I am a spoiled American and should be grateful for what I have and what is the MIL to do if we ask her to leave? 
Well one day when the wife and I were in the kitchen she and I got a bit frisky with kissing and a bit of rubbing (clothed) when I looked over my wife's shoulder and saw MIL standing not 15 feet away with a look of horror, disgust and what I can only describe as loathing at me. It was if a switch was turned in my gut. I got so mad by the intrusion into my marriage I have been unable to shake it this many months later.
I refuse to look or acknowledge MIL and she basically vanishes into other parts of the home when I am around. My wife and I haven't been intimate for several months and there is a unspoken tension between us as I am sure she knows what the issue is but doesn't want to face it. Not sure what to do. I love my wife and children dearly and they would be devastated if a separation or divorce took place. I can't live with MIL in the house any longer but I fear that my wife's loyalty to her mom might trump the marriage? Don't know.
Sorry for the long post..background was important I feel.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Dude. 15 years, you couldn't try to learn Russian? You have two native speakers (wife and MIL) to help you learn. You essentially would have an immersion situation.

I think if you could speak to her, you'd have a better relationship with your MIL. It sounds like she wasn't so intimidating at the start. I think if you made some effort, that your wife would take that as a positive sign, and she might try to lean on her mother to be more accomodating as well. 

If I understand correctly, your wife is a physician. She should be able to talk to you about the concerns on an intelligent level or, failing that, she should be able to understand that you may need a neutral counselor to help the relationship. 

Analyzing this at its most banal level, you are a stay-at-home dad married to a physician. You likely would get custody of the children, and your wife will certainly pay child support and likely at least rehabilitative alimony (depends on your state). It would be in her best interest financially to try to meet you halfway, even if she has loyalties to her mother.


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## firefairy (May 21, 2012)

I will agree with the other comment; you are complaining about the MIL not learning English to speak to you but you haven't learned Russian to speak to her either. Its a two way street!!
I will also say that having extra members in your household can be stressful!!! It makes it hard for you to feel relaxed and comfortable in your own home! It challenges relationships because as you stated, you and your wife had a moment that the MIL looked at with disgust.. it makes it hard for you to have those moments.. to enjoy your house as a couple. 
Have you considered trying to find a home that has in-law quarters? Perhaps a house with an apartment above the garage? Or a house with basement converted into an apartment type setting? That way your MIL could still live there but not be in you and your wife personal spaces!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Now's the time to hire a permanent nanny.

Be kind to the in laws but try and not pay them, perhaps pay for their transportation back to Russia. 

This situation will never improve. And fil has the right to be cranky. He imo probably doesn't want to be permanently your ward, either.

Maybe he didn't really want to move in with your family either.

But make caretaking plans beyond the inlaws.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I think it's a bit late after 15 years to send MIL back to Russia alone. Is your wife her only child? What promises were made that have now been broken?

I understand your need for more privacy with your wife. My mother moved into an inlaw apartment and lived there for 15 years until she passed away. It was rough at first getting used to the new arrangement and learning not to step on each other's privacy. Ironically, it was much harder for me than my now ex-husband. But I did always realize that at least she had her own space to go to so we weren't in each other's faces constantly. Does your MIL have just a room in the house or an apartment? Getting a place with a separate apartment or adding one on might help quite a bit.

I also believe it's not fair to use this woman as a nanny/maid when you needed her and then just discard her when she's no longer useful. You're feeling stifled by her and that makes sense so find another way to take care of her and help your marriage. Kicking her out seems extreme. Set out some new rules...she may come to dinner twice a week for example, the rest of the time she should have dinner in her apartment. This gives you time as a family without her always there. 

Talk to your wife about it or nothing will get better.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Yeah, you probably could have tried to learn some Russian, but if you have no background with it, or other Slavic languages, it is a HARD language to learn - as you probably know. The pronunciations are brutal, and you have to learn to conjugate both verbs and nouns. The only silver lining is that there are fewer words to learn... "Bring me that wrench, please" in Russian could be "bring wrench." No articles (a, an, the), & No pleasantries expected or given!

That being said... you're in a lousy situation, and as callous as it sounds, probably need to simply make the best of it until your MIL passes. They don't put them in nursing homes over there, and it does seem kinda unfair to send her back alone. 

Does your wife have siblings there that could take their mom in? 

I was in a similar situation (before my divorce), but in my case, my XW was the problem... even though I couldn't communicate well with my MIL, I tried, and would make pleasantries when needed. and she did work hard keeping the house clean and cooking -things my XW refused to do - so I appreciated her company.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Now's the time to hire a permanent nanny.
> 
> Be kind to the in laws but try and not pay them, perhaps pay for their transportation back to Russia.
> 
> ...


He said his FIL already passed away, so they'd be sending the MIL back to Russia by herself. Presumably she's elderly now, or approaching it.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Oh boy! 

I was born and raised in another country. I married an American and we live in America.

I also asked my mom to come and help me when my kids were newborns, but I was a stay at home mom because I didn't want my parents to move in with us or to use daycare.

I understand your in-laws not adapting to the culture, it's hard to move to another country! I needed help adapting as a young woman, I can't imagine how hard it was for your in-laws.

I know it's been 15 years, but have you guys asked her what she wants to do? What if she misses home? What if she feels uncomfortable living with you guys? Maybe she feels she has no other option?

I know, as a daughter, I would feel torn between mom and husband. After all, her mom was brought to the US to help you both. I'm sure your mil left everything behind, home, friends, family to help her daughter. This is hard to ignore.

You need to talk to your wife and your MIL. The three of you need to decide what's best for the 3 of you.

If you don't even see your MIL then how are you going to know what she thinks of the whole situation?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

You can't live with her and your wife can't live without her. So, how do you square that circle?

You can't ship her back to Russia. You can't have her in the house. So, put her in a MIL suite and wall it off. She lives nearby, like downstairs for instance, but she cannot enter your house because there is no common doorway. This allows your wife to visit by going outside and around to the basement door.

You have privacy in your family, but the cost is MIL is really close by. Your wife has her mother close by, but not underfoot.


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Dude. 15 years, you couldn't try to learn Russian? You have two native speakers (wife and MIL) to help you learn. You essentially would have an immersion situation.
> 
> I think if you could speak to her, you'd have a better relationship with your MIL. It sounds like she wasn't so intimidating at the start. I think if you made some effort, that your wife would take that as a positive sign, and she might try to lean on her mother to be more accomodating as well.
> 
> ...


The deal spoken and unspoken in so many ways was that MIL was to help with the kids while our careers took off. It was understood that eventually they, MIL and FIL would immigrate and then make their own way once things settled. I know it sounds one sided but the MIL and eventually the FIL were well taken care of. ALL of their expenses, trips back and forth to the homeland, usually twice a year and numerous trips with the grandkids were all provided. I imagine you would be hard pressed to find two grand parents that got to spend so much quality time with the grandkids. My parents got perhaps a tenth of that exposure.
Since we didn't put it down on paper so much of the past many years was "dealing with things as they came up".
My wife is highly fluent in english and I never needed to learn Russian. Never had much of a desire as I did not think I would need it.


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> You can't live with her and your wife can't live without her. So, how do you square that circle?
> 
> You can't ship her back to Russia. You can't have her in the house. So, put her in a MIL suite and wall it off. She lives nearby, like downstairs for instance, but she cannot enter your house because there is no common doorway. This allows your wife to visit by going outside and around to the basement door.
> 
> You have privacy in your family, but the cost is MIL is really close by. Your wife has her mother close by, but not underfoot.


Sending her back to Russia was never an option nor expected. I just wished she would intergarte into society more. Since mixing with "non Russians" is out of the question she should find a people she can be with. I would get her an apartment in a heartbeat if she would go.


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> Oh boy!
> 
> I was born and raised in another country. I married an American and we live in America.
> 
> ...


Her husband has passed and her two children and grandkids all live here in the US. She only has siblings overseas. Her son lives on the east coast and has a very sizable Russian community nearby. I suggested that we get her an apartment in this area so she can get involved in the church there and meet people. She seems not to want to. Also when I bring it up I get the impression that the son doesn't want her nearby and the my wife is reluctant to have her move away.


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> I think it's a bit late after 15 years to send MIL back to Russia alone. Is your wife her only child? What promises were made that have now been broken?
> 
> I understand your need for more privacy with your wife. My mother moved into an inlaw apartment and lived there for 15 years until she passed away. It was rough at first getting used to the new arrangement and learning not to step on each other's privacy. Ironically, it was much harder for me than my now ex-husband. But I did always realize that at least she had her own space to go to so we weren't in each other's faces constantly. Does your MIL have just a room in the house or an apartment? Getting a place with a separate apartment or adding one on might help quite a bit.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. When FIL and MIL were living with us I did everything I could to get them started on a new life here. I bought the FIL a used VW and told him and the MIL to travel through the US. Look around, start to get a feel for the place I told them. We took the in-laws to Florida every year, Hawaii twice, Colorado more times than I can count. Now I won't go anywhere on vacation with MIL (FIL has since passed). I plan trips, the wife brings up whether we should take the MIL and I say that it should be a great time, I'll stay home with the dogs.
The FIL never wanted to be here. He wanted to be home, getting a stipend from us and his son and have his wife by his side, As I mentioned before their marriage wasn't the best and MIL just didn't want that. I believe she used us an excuse to not have to be with him. He eventually went back home and asked her to follow. She refused. She didn't divorce him and I said as much that she was obligated to follow her man as his wife to separate but we were not to be used as a crutch. I was told that I didn't understand and "just let it be". 
I don't speak russian so I don't know what was said but by the tone of the MIL and her glare she didn't like me having a say in what should be done.


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

firefairy said:


> I will agree with the other comment; you are complaining about the MIL not learning English to speak to you but you haven't learned Russian to speak to her either. Its a two way street!!
> I will also say that having extra members in your household can be stressful!!! It makes it hard for you to feel relaxed and comfortable in your own home! It challenges relationships because as you stated, you and your wife had a moment that the MIL looked at with disgust.. it makes it hard for you to have those moments.. to enjoy your house as a couple.
> Have you considered trying to find a home that has in-law quarters? Perhaps a house with an apartment above the garage? Or a house with basement converted into an apartment type setting? That way your MIL could still live there but not be in you and your wife personal spaces!


I would buy her her own house or apartment if she would just go. Not sure why I am obligated to learn Russian? It is not a two way street. I married my wife who spoke perfect english and brought her to America to be my bride. The MIL was to come over here temporarily to help wit the grandkids. Now I am where I am. I never like that arrangement. My wife was adament that she didn't rust anyone slse to look after the children. I tried to make the most of it and help them launch as best as I could. But to no avail.


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

TomNebraska said:


> He said his FIL already passed away, so they'd be sending the MIL back to Russia by herself. Presumably she's elderly now, or approaching it.


Correct in re: FIL. MIL is still relatively young and could conceivably remarry. Just doesn't want to I guess. One issue is that I am 54. my wife 9 yrs younger and she is 63. That means that I could be well into my twilight years before she passes. I am ready to retire and take it easy now. I have done very well in the markets and have told the wife we should pack it in and relax on a beach or mtns somewhere. When she asks what her mom should do I say she needs to find a place on her own. All of a sudden the wife wants to keep working.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

bavarian69 said:


> I would buy her her own house or apartment if she would just go. Not sure why I am obligated to learn Russian? It is not a two way street. I married my wife who spoke perfect english and brought her to America to be my bride. The MIL was to come over here temporarily to help wit the grandkids. Now I am where I am. I never like that arrangement. My wife was adament that she didn't rust anyone slse to look after the children. I tried to make the most of it and help them launch as best as I could. But to no avail.


Reread my comment again. I get that the IDEAL for you is to have her move away to her own apartment. You're making it clear that this is not in the cards. Don't give up hope though. MIL-suite. Buy a house where you can stick her in the basement and then isolate that basement suite from your house. This means she can't wander through your house at will, but is only a few steps away from you guys.

You're looking for some solution. Do you have a better plan? You want her out of your house, this gets her out of your "house" while still keeping her within the physical structure of your house. I suspect that this is going to be the best you can achieve given the constraints put on you by your wife. Wife compromises and you compromise and MIL is out of your hair.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

bavarian69 said:


> Her husband has passed and her two children and grandkids all live here in the US. She only has siblings overseas. Her son lives on the east coast and has a very sizable Russian community nearby. I suggested that we get her an apartment in this area so she can get involved in the church there and meet people. She seems not to want to. Also when I bring it up I get the impression that the son doesn't want her nearby and the my wife is reluctant to have her move away.


You are in trouble then. Your wife doesn't support your wishes, you let this thing go on for years! I can't believe you never saw this coming!

I love my parents but I can't imagine living with them at my age. It would be terrible for my marriage because I know how different their ways are from my husband's. 

You need to really sit down and talk to your wife or find a mediator, a counselor maybe? Who can help explain your wishes to your wife. I'm surprised your wife doesn't realize the importance of privacy in a marriage. 

How's her culture when it comes to marriage and family? Do children take care of their parents? Do families live all together?


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

bavarian69 said:


> I would buy her her own house or apartment if she would just go. Not sure why I am obligated to learn Russian? It is not a two way street. I married my wife who spoke perfect english and brought her to America to be my bride. The MIL was to come over here temporarily to help wit the grandkids. Now I am where I am. I never like that arrangement. My wife was adament that she didn't rust anyone slse to look after the children. I tried to make the most of it and help them launch as best as I could. But to no avail.


Well, a couple of things:

a) I wouldn't look at is as "obligated to learn Russian". I would view it as an OPPORTUNITY to learn Russian. Nothing helps you learn like immersion and reinforcement, so you have the perfect opportunity here. I'm always trying to learn things and improve myself, so I would jump at the opportunity if given to me. 

b) I understand your wife's reluctance to force her mother out. My father was an immigrant from a 3rd world crap-hole, but there is a tradition there to take care of the older generations. Probably in part because the formal social service net is bad. As my father became less healthy and reached his mid-eighties (I am a baby boomer), I tried to convince him to live with me and my wife. I felt that obligation/guilt from my dad's culture. My wife thought it would be challenge, but she was willing to do it. We didn't end up moving him in because he delayed from his stubbornness then died rapidly from a series of complications. However, your wife may also be feeling that pull from a cultural obligation. I'm not saying you have to necessarily cave to her sense of obligation, but it may be easier if you could understand the kind of guilt and conflict she might feel if she DOESN'T provide for her mother.


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## UndecidedinNY (Jul 11, 2013)

Why were you sending money to your father in law? How did they support themselves beforehand?

She was probably disgusted by your affectionate marriage because she and her husband disliked each other and many people stay married for social reasons, but aren't intimate anymore after having kids (not sure why that is a thing, and I'm glad that isn't the case in your marriage, but maybe she figured it was). She shouldn't live in your home, but she can be close by. 

While learning another language is great, I don't agree with all the people who said you should have learned Russian for her. She should learn the language of her adopted country, but you don't really need to learn Russian unless you moved there (or wanted to) because your "two way street" is with her daughter, not her, and it's a major pet peeve of mine that people demand we learn the language of people who come to our country to make it easier for them instead of them adapting to the country they want to be part of. _If_ you want to learn another language, you get to pick which it is. Neither of you learned for each other, but she should have learned for herself so she could communicate with others. I love languages (I speak four) and I would have learned for the fun of it, but not because I wanted to make things easier for someone who didn't want to put in any effort.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

It's tricky. Others suggestions about a separate entrance apartment is a smart idea. Having a MIL at your place and communication is limited - that is incredibly difficult. Going through something similar. I started out gung-ho and 6 months in am regretting my decision, but for our kids I want to try and show compassion to their grandparent. However, as a linguist, I'm gonna play devil's advocate - just because you don't HAVE to speak Russian to communicate with your wife, your children's heritage includes Russian, right? And your MIL is Russian. So it could be a good opportunity to show your children to be proud of their mother's heritage, and improve your communication with MIL too. She might soften a little if you are showing that respect to her, and feel that she can maybe give you space more. Look, I get it. My MIL lives with us and she has dementia so she's losing her English. I don't speak her language and have really limited free time and energy to learn a new language. But when I read this post I thought to myself, it really isn't that big a deal, right? I could learn it if I tried - even just a few words. I'm gonna try. You just try and learn a little broken Russian, and it shows your wife that you care for her and value all of her including her heritage. What about looking at nearby apartments to your house that way she wouldn't feel you were pushing her out because she'd be nearby? Have you tried just going to an openhouse for something nearby just for fun? It IS an expectation in a lot of cultures that you take care of your parents in their old age. It isn't necessarily American in mindset and it is what I discovered meeting someone whose parents aren't from the US - it is almost a given that you will take care of your parents in law because that is just how it is. Finding a good middle ground for a strong cultural difference is just so hard. Have you thought about talking to a counselor, you and your wife together? The strain of having a parent in law in your house is really hard. Some things I have noticed - she is ALWAYS up the second I come downstairs so my half an hour of quiet time with a cup of coffee and a book in the morning is basically shot. But she never asked to be here. She can't live on her own anymore. Your MIL chooses not to, correct? Maybe you could start by taking baby steps - take your MIL and kids to a Russian area and grab something to eat. Then maybe walk around and see if there are communities here she could take part in - hobby groups, religious communities or social hubs. Then just decide to go as a family to one, one day. See if she can make some friends. From there, I bet it wouldn't be so hard. I don't know if you have an awareness of how terrifying and isolating it is to move to a country where you don't speak the language. It is lonely, and sucks a lot of energy from you because everything from buying food to applying for jobs is a hard task because it's not in your language. Maybe helping her make some of the initial steps of making friends doesn't seem appealing because at this point you resent her and just want her gone - but it might be the pragmatic, and compassionate route? From there, she will be more likely to move out if she has a life outside your family. I feel you, man. It's not fun. Hang in there.


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## Lolati11 (Nov 29, 2017)

bavarian69 said:


> Married 19 years with two kids, boy 16 and a girl 9 yrs old. We were a couple years into the marriage and I landed an airline job and the wife got accepted into residency. It was an extremely exciting time and we both looked forward to a successful and fulfilling future. Our boy was 6 mos old at the time and this presented a problem. Neither of our careers could be put on hold without serious consequences to our future prospects so we invited her mother to come live with us as caretaker. My wife was originally from southern Russia and her entire family lived over there, none of them had any English skills and I spoke zero Russian. Her mom was unimposing, tried to stay out of my way, helped around the house and was a huge blessing to my wife. I was traveling 4 days out of each week so it put my mind to rest that she was there. My relationship with MIL consisted of hello, goodbye, I am going out, etc. It made for awkward times but generally I could deal with it as I was most times away from home.
> Fast forward a few years and we are in a new city, wife in fellowship and me with a new international cargo job. We were leaning on my MIL quite a bit and needed her badly. MIL husband was back in Russia and we were sending money over there regularly to pay for his living and home upkeep. But soon my FIL was in country too and we all lived under one roof. He was a difficult man and very unhappy here in the states. I was traveling overseas 20 days out of the month so once again the arrangement although irksome was tolerable since I did not have to deal with them on a daily basis. Neither my MIL or FIL bothered to learn english. In fact they refused to try to integrate into the Russian community or try to make a life for themselves.
> They were essentially strangers to me as communication was impossible.
> The MIL and FIL had major marriage issues and most time hated each other. As long as FIL was fed had smokes and alcohol he was content but his unhappiness made wife and MIL miserable. Finally my wife said that she couldn't handle me away all the time and wanted my at home full time. So we/I made the fateful decision. I left my job during a downturn and the airline was paying for people to retire or leave early. I was now a stay at home dad and were were to home school.
> ...


Hi there , 
After that many years it will be very disrespectful to put her out . Especially that your FIL is passed now . Trust me I am a foreigner as well and coming form a different culture I will pick my mom over my husband . 
what you need is dates nights !! Do something out of the house . A small trip for the two of you where your MIL can watch the kids . Work on bringing the romance back and everything will fall back in place . Your unhappiness is with the lack of spark and intimacy . It’s just easier to blame someone else . The added stress of this year doesn’t help either . You can do this just start somewhere ! Best of luck


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Lolati11 said:


> Hi there ,
> After that many years it will be very disrespectful to put her out . Especially that your FIL is passed now . Trust me I am a foreigner as well and coming form a different culture I will pick my mom over my husband .
> what you need is dates nights !! Do something out of the house . A small trip for the two of you where your MIL can watch the kids . Work on bringing the romance back and everything will fall back in place . Your unhappiness is with the lack of spark and intimacy . It’s just easier to blame someone else . The added stress of this year doesn’t help either . You can do this just start somewhere ! Best of luck


Wow you are telling him the MIL isn't the problem and the source of unhappiness? Since when were you omniscient?

I sure as heck would be running for the hills if I had to live with an in law that glared at me.

I'm surprised OP has lasted this long in his situation.


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## Davidmidwest (Nov 22, 2016)

bavarian69 said:


> Married 19 years with two kids, boy 16 and a girl 9 yrs old. We were a couple years into the marriage and I landed an airline job and the wife got accepted into residency. It was an extremely exciting time and we both looked forward to a successful and fulfilling future. Our boy was 6 mos old at the time and this presented a problem. Neither of our careers could be put on hold without serious consequences to our future prospects so we invited her mother to come live with us as caretaker. My wife was originally from southern Russia and her entire family lived over there, none of them had any English skills and I spoke zero Russian. Her mom was unimposing, tried to stay out of my way, helped around the house and was a huge blessing to my wife. I was traveling 4 days out of each week so it put my mind to rest that she was there. My relationship with MIL consisted of hello, goodbye, I am going out, etc. It made for awkward times but generally I could deal with it as I was most times away from home.
> Fast forward a few years and we are in a new city, wife in fellowship and me with a new international cargo job. We were leaning on my MIL quite a bit and needed her badly. MIL husband was back in Russia and we were sending money over there regularly to pay for his living and home upkeep. But soon my FIL was in country too and we all lived under one roof. He was a difficult man and very unhappy here in the states. I was traveling overseas 20 days out of the month so once again the arrangement although irksome was tolerable since I did not have to deal with them on a daily basis. Neither my MIL or FIL bothered to learn english. In fact they refused to try to integrate into the Russian community or try to make a life for themselves.
> They were essentially strangers to me as communication was impossible.
> The MIL and FIL had major marriage issues and most time hated each other. As long as FIL was fed had smokes and alcohol he was content but his unhappiness made wife and MIL miserable. Finally my wife said that she couldn't handle me away all the time and wanted my at home full time. So we/I made the fateful decision. I left my job during a downturn and the airline was paying for people to retire or leave early. I was now a stay at home dad and were were to home school.
> ...


KICK HER OUT. IF ITS A DEAL BREAKER TO KEEP MARRIED =--- KICK SPOUSE 0UT TOO. YOU ARE YOUNG ENOUGH TO HAVE ANOTHER FAMILY- BUT MARRY SOMEONE WITH NO KIDS, GET SOMEOINE YOU CAN DO IT ON THE KITCHEN COUNTER ANY TIME OF THE DAY... BECOME RED PILL AWARE AND START ACTING AND DRESSING LIKE JAMES BOND. REGARDLESS YOU HAVE MOST LIKELY A HIGH SEXUAL MARKET VALUE, AND A CATCH STILL TO SOME WOMEN. IF YOUR WIFE BALKS AND DOESNT GO WITHG IT, KICK HER OUT TOO, THEN DO YOU WANT THIS FOR 40 MORE YEARS- WHAT do you want From the NEXT DAY TO 40 YEARS from now?. TAKE IT FROM ME-DO NOTHING YOUR HEALTH WILL DERTERIATE AND YOU COULD BE DEAD-- DEAD- DEAD IN 7-10 YEARS. GET OUT OR FIX IT ALIVE. YOU ARE JUST A BETA DUDE.. BETA AREV$$$ BUCKS, 1/2 ALPHAS GET TO BUCK ANYWHERE SEXY TAKE CHARGE PAL- YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO BE A MAN TAKE A STAND A LIVE WITH IT .. AT A MIN THE MIL MUST GO-TONIGHT, EVEN IF BYOU PUTNHER IN A HOTEL TO SHIP HER BACK. GETB HER THE *** OUT, THEN HO TAKE YOUR SPOUSE WITHOUT NOTICE AND TAKE FUN- BE CONFIDENT AND ASSERTIVE AND GET SOME


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

Thank you all for your posts. Perhaps a bit of background on my wife's upbringing. She grew up in a communist country and her father was a truck driver who was able to drive into the west to bring European goods back to Russia. He was away a great deal of time and DW mother was left alone to raise the kids and run the house. From what the DW has told me her father would come home and basically disrupt the family dynamic and she said her mother resented (?) the time when he was at home. So looking at this she probably doesn't respect me as the master of the home? I'm just the male who should be happy that I am provided for. Unfortunately for her I am quite independent and can cook and clean better than most. I can actually cook circles around her and the kids prefer my meals all the time. She gets to make pancakes on Sat morning however. I will say that DW does defer to me and shows me great respect and in most respects the love life is as expected for a 20 year married couple.
I think the biggest issue (respectable as it is) that DW has a loyalty and enormous sense of obligation in taking care of her mother and this leads to an unwillingness to discuss her mother moving on or living alone. DW has said that all that she is today is because of her mother i.e.- physician etc.

OK..so now we just forward a few decades. MIL and FIL are in the US living with us. I believe that FIL did not have much to say about being here and the wife basically told him (conjecture) that you have nothing to say.. I will cook your food, buy you alcohol and smokes. For FIL living under another man's roof was I am sure stressful.
Now FIL is deceased and MIL is alone and living with us. (basic rehash from above). We have a big home and she basically lives upstairs where the kids have rooms and the wife and I are downstairs. We have taken advantage of MIL living here so DW and I can go on trips, dates etc soooo that is a positive. 

I can not exactly say what my true aversion to MIL living in the house is other than to say I resent the presumption that she has a right to live here.
She has never shown any instance of trying to talk or deal with me. Never made any attempt to learn English. Of course now the relationship is so awkward and unpleasant we avoid each other as much as possible.Learning Russian isn't going to fix this as I believe culturally she just assumes she can live with us. I get it, life is easy and carefree here. Up till the CV nonsense she would travel overseas for a few months and then spend several weeks at her son's place. That break was huge in me getting that distance I needed and not seeing her for awhile so I could soldier on some more when she returned. It is almost a joke btwn the DW and I when I suggest that I have enough airline mileage to send her on a trip. DW would say, "need the break?". So in a way she understands it but perhaps not the depth of it.


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

Davidmidwest said:


> KICK HER OUT. IF ITS A DEAL BREAKER TO KEEP MARRIED =--- KICK SPOUSE 0UT TOO. YOU ARE YOUNG ENOUGH TO HAVE ANOTHER FAMILY- BUT MARRY SOMEONE WITH NO KIDS, GET SOMEOINE YOU CAN DO IT ON THE KITCHEN COUNTER ANY TIME OF THE DAY... BECOME RED PILL AWARE AND START ACTING AND DRESSING LIKE JAMES BOND. REGARDLESS YOU HAVE MOST LIKELY A HIGH SEXUAL MARKET VALUE, AND A CATCH STILL TO SOME WOMEN. IF YOUR WIFE BALKS AND DOESNT GO WITHG IT, KICK HER OUT TOO, THEN DO YOU WANT THIS FOR 40 MORE YEARS- WHAT do you want From the NEXT DAY TO 40 YEARS from now?. TAKE IT FROM ME-DO NOTHING YOUR HEALTH WILL DERTERIATE AND YOU COULD BE DEAD-- DEAD- DEAD IN 7-10 YEARS. GET OUT OR FIX IT ALIVE. YOU ARE JUST A BETA DUDE.. BETA AREV$$$ BUCKS, 1/2 ALPHAS GET TO BUCK ANYWHERE SEXY TAKE CHARGE PAL- YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO BE A MAN TAKE A STAND A LIVE WITH IT .. AT A MIN THE MIL MUST GO-TONIGHT, EVEN IF BYOU PUTNHER IN A HOTEL TO SHIP HER BACK. GETB HER THE *** OUT, THEN HO TAKE YOUR SPOUSE WITHOUT NOTICE AND TAKE FUN- BE CONFIDENT AND ASSERTIVE AND GET SOME


I like your passion but your talking about using a nuke to get rid of the racoons living under the roof. I would probably have taken this tact if it wasn't for the children. They of course love their grandma and have never known a time when she wasn't here. So me kicking her to the curb and their mother too would be hugely traumatic. Working on a solution and will post it here when I can.


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

Lolati11 said:


> Hi there ,
> After that many years it will be very disrespectful to put her out . Especially that your FIL is passed now . Trust me I am a foreigner as well and coming form a different culture I will pick my mom over my husband .
> what you need is dates nights !! Do something out of the house . A small trip for the two of you where your MIL can watch the kids . Work on bringing the romance back and everything will fall back in place . Your unhappiness is with the lack of spark and intimacy . It’s just easier to blame someone else . The added stress of this year doesn’t help either . You can do this just start somewhere ! Best of luck


I would never pick my parents over my wife! Why be married then? Just don't get it. Of course I understand that in some cultures blood is thicker than marriage. That is depressing.


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## Lolati11 (Nov 29, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Wow you are telling him the MIL isn't the problem and the source of unhappiness? Since when were you omniscient?
> 
> I sure as heck would be running for the hills if I had to live with an in law that glared at me.
> 
> I'm surprised OP has lasted this long in his situation.


That’s the thing he lasted this long because he loves his wife so much . So why not try to find the spark again . I am not saying put up with the mother in law forever I think if he wins his wife back together they will find a different solution .


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Your MIL has some issues and I don't expect you to find her presence a delight. OTOH she was there for you when you needed help w/ the kids so don't see her as the devil. You and your W need to make some rules. If W sees that you aren't all about getting rid of MIL she may work w/ you. If MIL sees that she has options between turning W against you, and being on the street, she may work w/ the two of you.

The first step is convincing W that you will work w/ her, and getting her to do the same. Couples counseling may help w/ this.

Good luck.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm in the crowd with a MIL apartment or little home if you have the property.

I don't think I would kick her out personally, nor would I put up with an ounce of her backward, ********, hate filled and failed culture.

Regardless of her stupid attitude, and yes it is stupid, she also was there for you when you needed her.

I would get things squared with your wife. There should be an understanding that nothing gets to come between you and her in your marriage and her mother needs to back the duck off and learn your culture and respect it even if she won't learn english.

I'm not sure if it was your wife or your MIL that said you were a spoiled american that didn't appreciate what you had but I would correct that moronic attitude immediately. We fought battles for what we have and they need to respect the culture they are enjoying. It isn't you that needs to bow to failed systems.

As to your wife owing everything she is to her mother?

How much would she have without you? Would she have the children and home she has?

Would she have had the ability to take care of her mother as good as she has been without you?

I think she is misplacing her priorities a bit don't you?


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## bavarian69 (Nov 28, 2020)

Thanks for the replies. Spoke with a counselor about my issues and he helped me focus on what the true issues are. I am letting my resentment of my MIL cloud my relationship with DW and projecting that frustration onto my DW. He helped me realize that I should be more accommodating to my wife's loyalty issues. The counselor asked what the MIL prospects are like if she lived alone and I had to admit that she would be lost. She hasn't a clue how to take care of herself in American society. The counselor asked if I would send my kids out into the world with such a lack of skills. I admitted that I would not. So is it fair to ask the wife to do the same to her mother? 
OK..fair enough. 
He suggested that I focus on hobbies, activities that get me out of the house and if they are multi day events that would be better. Take the kids hiking, or skiing and do hobbies for myself. Work on being a better more enjoyable person to myself and then the presence of the MIL won't matter so much. So this week I dropped it on my family that we are going skiing in CO for 12 days and MIL gets to look after the house and dog. The kids were super pumped and the wife couldn't contain her excitement. I guess she needs away time too? 
I mentioned to the wife that we might want to look at some condos in the mountains as a family retreat that I could go to with the dog and relax.. prepare for retirement etc. She seemed excited about that prospect too. I have in the past on numerous occasions stated that when I retire MIL will NOT be living in my home. She seemed to accept that premise.
So what I am doing now is my version of a 180- and becoming cool and fun again. Not so serious and resentful like I have been. My wife knows my issues with MIL and will hopefully begin to see that when the MIL has less influence (effect) on my life, her satisfaction increases immeasurably too.
Let you know how it goes.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I have a problem with your counselor. Your kids grew up and learned to live on their own. Your MIL refused to do a damn think to prepare herself to do the same. Your counselor is full of crap. Sometimes tough love is what is needed.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

bavarian69 said:


> So we/I made the fateful decision. I left my job during a downturn and the airline was paying for people to retire or leave early. I was now a stay at home dad and were were to home school.
> The deal was that MIL and FIL were to go back home and wife and I would make it work.


This is one half of the core issue. You made a deal that was not honored by your wife. You held up your end of the agreement, she didn't hold up hers.




bavarian69 said:


> Not sure what to do. I love my wife and children dearly and they would be devastated if a separation or divorce took place. I can't live with MIL in the house any longer but I fear that my wife's loyalty to her mom might trump the marriage? Don't know.


This is the other half. In terms of how it stands, your wife's loyalty to her mom does indeed trump the marriage. That's why the agreement above turned into a bait and switch. Note that it doesn't matter what your wife says about this, it's plainly what happened. Her mother's comfort trumped not only your comfort, but your agreement to be a SAHD that your in-laws would leave.

Essentially, your choice is either to (1) just accept your MIL is going to live with you until one of you dies of old age, or (2) raise some kind of stink about it and then eventually have to (1) or lose the battle and have to leave the relationship.

There's going to be all sorts of opportunity for a red herring trip in talking to counselors or trying date nights or learning Russian to try and bridge the gap with your MIL. All are unlikely to do anything other than cost time and money as your MIL continues to love with you. I mean you could speak fluent Russian and your MIL would ignore you anyway, she has no interest in talking to you and her bread and butter is having her daughter allow her to be dependent on her. All talking to you does is weaken her position.

I know you have no interest in doing this, but I think you have to reflect back to your wife, the reality of the situation where her mother trumps you. You clearly can't continue in a "marriage" where someone outside the marriage has a higher status than you. This situation is a decision your wife has made, so it's not like you're rocking the boat here. The boat was full on capsized by your wife when she bait and switched you 12 years ago. The only thing odd is that 12 years later, you're still clinging to the boat.

If anything is going to work, it's getting to couples counseling, backed by the resigned disappointment of leaving her if she refuses. Crappy options I know, but this is the reality of what I see.

And let's be 100% clear here. Mom is a controlling toxic poopweasel. She decided to ruin her daughters marriage, in order to not deal with the crap in her own marriage. She knew how badly it would affect things between you and your wife, but she didn't care. She could have gone back to Russia 12 years ago when FIL was alive, but decided to stay here and sink her claws into everything deeper. At any point she could have learnt English and gotten a job, but she didn't. THIS is the topic that needs to come up in counseling with your wife.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Oh, you're in a pickle. Sounds like she has already decided her mom trumps the marriage. Are you guys in a big expensive place? Sounds like you're solvent enough so why not buy a rental property a put the mom on it and consider it an investment (in your sanity and $$ down the road). And take the key away from her, for sure, or she'll still be over there all the time uninvited. You do owe her for being there for you in the past, though. And I guess the kids are attached. How old is the mom at this point? She can still live on her own, can't she? It's insane your wife hasn't insisted on both your MIL and deceased FIL getting into one of the free courses (or very lowcost) to learn the language. If they're not going to learn the language, the mom, I mean, maybe she doesn't actually WANT to stay here and would be happier if you sent her back to her home country. 

Ask your wife this: How was your mother figuring on supporting herself if you had never brought her stateside after her husband died? I mean, I'm sure she has relatives other than you guys or some way to work (nanny?) She could work right there where you are and support herself if she'd get busy learning basic English, and maybe even if she didn't.


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