# Changing communication dynamic...



## DocHoliday (Jan 19, 2012)

Today was a sad day. In MC, we admitted were at impass. We surely love each other, but our dynamic of distrust and anger takes over any constructive counciling.
I have come to the conclusion that you have to have three things, love, respect and care -- to make any progress.

This pattern has taken years to settle in, we are both guilty of this communication style. At this point I don't have a lot of hope for this changing. 

There has been so many things happen, so much disappointment, it is easy to say you will change, quite another to consistently do it.

Let this be a warning... small attitudes, names, bad habits can snowball into death for a once positive marriage.

We love each other, no doubt. But every serious conversation deteriorates into blame... Nothing got settled, and it escalated into impasse.

Has anyone here really ever broken a ingrained communication pattern? I mean really re established it? If so, how?

I am at a terrible low. We can.. And do.. Have positive parts of marriage, but we are both very unhappy with trust, communication which leads to more anger.

Thank you


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## DocHoliday (Jan 19, 2012)

Oh, yeah. Please don't say, "Just talk nice". 
I am really looking for the voices of experience, here.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Change the way you say things perhaps? If you feel like being rude... bite your tounge?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

DocHoliday said:


> Today was a sad day. In MC, we admitted were at impass. We surely love each other, but our dynamic of distrust and anger takes over any constructive counciling.
> I have come to the conclusion that you have to have three things, love, respect and care -- to make any progress.
> 
> This pattern has taken years to settle in, we are both guilty of this communication style. At this point I don't have a lot of hope for this changing.
> ...


I have not been able to do this while in an already broken relationship, no, but I have been able to reinvent myself to avoid them in a new relationship. (Sorry, you asked, and I'm giving an honest reply.)


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

DocHoliday said:


> Has anyone here really ever broken a ingrained communication pattern? I mean really re established it? If so, how?


Of course it is possible to change the communication pattern and re-establish a new one. My H and I have changed our communication--for the most part. But in my experience, we still fall into our old ways under certain conditions--if we're talking about something especially touchy, if one of us is in a mood or funk, OR if we've just been discussing something too long and he hits a wall.

I absolutely believe that we would be more consistent with our newer, healthier style, if my H would be a little more conscious of it more often when we have to discuss something. I tend to do more of the emotional/mindful/intentional heavy lifting, always careful with my words because he's more volatile and reactive. In many couples one partner just is the one who just tries harder--it's usually the one who is, say, on TAM at 3 in the morning, NOT the one snoring blissfully in the other room! It's not fair, but you can't change who you are and how you deal with things.

How can it work? In our case, each of us had to start with ourselves. Really reflect on what you are doing to contribute to the breakdown and work only on that. If you are both truly willing to do that, you can make strides I believe.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

You might want to have a look at this post by one of the moderators, Dejoo earlier on this year.

Four Negative Patterns That Predict Divorce | AndersonCooper.com

"........From the article, according to Dr. John Gottman, there are four primary patterns that he refers to as 'The Four Horseman' of marriage apocalypse.

1.Criticism
2. Contempt
3. Defensiveness
4. Stonewalling - or 'the silent treatment'

Here is the link to that thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-term-success-marriage/44442-negative-patterns-predict-divorce.html

I found it to be very useful.


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## DocHoliday (Jan 19, 2012)

Thank you for the link. It makes perfect common sense.

Little habits and traits can really seem harmless, and add up to a big mess.

As a matter of fact STONEWALLING (not saying anything) is one of the most hurtful in my marriage. When my husband quits a conversation/argument I see it as passive agressive, he sees it as "avoiding unhealthy conversations".
Good luck getting agreement on that.... 

I don't know how or where to start. I know that finally "having the light turned on" has really started me in a spin. It is the long term maintenance that is worrying me.

It is our MC opinion that we will most likely not break this habit (we have seen her over 2 years)... she has not seen a positive communication dynamic. 

I guess I am more willing today to face the fact than ever before.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Doesn't sound like a very encouraging MC. Maybe find another?

I've found that most ingrained problems go much deeper than "communication." If you want a specific reference to what saved me and possibly my marriage (but even if my marriage doesn't make it, I'll be ok), I can pm you. It gets under the surface of those ingrained patterns and attitudes and goes to the root. Let me know.

Dr. Phil has a theory that rings true for me: the problem often isn't that you argue or even how often you argue. It's how an argument ENDS. That is a small part of why I'm in a depressive funk today.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

DocHoliday said:


> Today was a sad day. In MC, we admitted were at impass. We surely love each other, but our dynamic of distrust and anger takes over any constructive counciling.
> I have come to the conclusion that you have to have three things, love, respect and care -- to make any progress.
> 
> This pattern has taken years to settle in, we are both guilty of this communication style. At this point I don't have a lot of hope for this changing.
> ...


In long term marriages we can get stuck in ruts. The ruts take a long time to dig and our behaviours become seriously entrenched, ingrained and unshakeable.

What the long term married in trouble couple needs is a different model of marriage to work to because for sure their old model isn’t working. Take a read of the following from http://www.alphausa.org/Publisher/Article.aspx?ID=1000063050:

_Over seven sessions of the course you will discover practical tools to help you:

* understand each other’s needs
* communicate more effectively
* grow closer through resolving conflict
* heal the ways you’ve hurt each other
* recognise how your upbringing affects your relationship
* improve relationships with parents and in-laws
* develop greater sexual intimacy
* discover each other’s love languages and much, much more!

The aim of The Marriage Course is to help couples grow closer and build a healthy relationship that will last a lifetime.

Session Topics

1. Building Strong Foundations – This session helps couples to look at their lifestyle and its effect upon their marriage, and to discover more about each other’s needs and desires – particularly on an emotional level.

2. The Art of Communication – Listening is a vital skill for a strong marriage. In this session couples practise communicating their feelings and listening effectively to one another.

3. Resolving Conflict – In this session we look at how couples can increase their intimacy by expressing appreciation to each other, recognising their differences, learning to negotiate disagreements and praying for each other (if they feel comfortable doing so).

4. The Power of Forgiveness – This session addresses the ways we will inevitably have hurt each other and how to resolve these so we don’t create a backlog of anger and resentment. We look at the process of healing through identifying the hurt, saying sorry and forgiving.

5. The Impact of Family – Past and Present – This session focuses on helping couples to recognise how their family background affects the way they relate to each other. They also consider how to build a good and healthy relationship with their parents, in-laws and wider family, and how hurt from childhood can be healed.

6. Good Sex – Sexual intimacy needs to be worked at and developed. It isn’t just the icing on the cake; it’s a vital ingredient of the cake itself. In this session couples are encouraged to talk about their sexual relationship and to recognise where they need to make changes.

7. Love in Action – This session looks at five ways of expressing love – through words, time, touch, presents and actions. Couples discover which expression of love is most important for their partner and how to put this into practice._


As a guy who was with his wife for 42 years I vouch for the efficacy, the value of ALL of the above.


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## DocHoliday (Jan 19, 2012)

Hey, cred; I would love any advice. I do not know how to PM

AFEH; went to the website. classes way outdated (like 2010 and 2011)


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

DocHoliday said:


> It is our MC opinion that we will most likely not break this habit (we have seen her over 2 years)... she has not seen a positive communication dynamic.


If your communication has not improved after FIVE sessions you either have a bad therapist or a bad patient.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

DocHoliday said:


> AFEH; went to the website. classes way outdated (like 2010 and 2011)


I'm a big fan of alpha, but these guys are also quite respectable:

Couples Therapy and Workshops from Imago Relationships Intnl


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## DocHoliday (Jan 19, 2012)

Mavash- How do you figure?
I guess that it would be totaly bad patient, then.

I know that patterns of communication take years to instill, and to fix them probably takes more than five weeks.

So much has happened in my relationship (27 years), that maybe it is too much.
Maybe I can't "get over" anger and deciet. We can argue about anything, and I am sick of the rollercoaster that my life has been on.


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## DocHoliday (Jan 19, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> You might want to have a look at this post by one of the moderators, Dejoo earlier on this year.
> 
> Four Negative Patterns That Predict Divorce | AndersonCooper.com
> 
> ...


Actually, some of these "techniques" are encouraged on other forums (like how to get your manhood-back kind).
Apparently, you can rename a trait (like stonewalling) into something "healthy", like citing boundaries or "disconnecting the hose". And it is then makes it O.K.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

DocHoliday said:


> Actually, some of these "techniques" are encouraged on other forums (like how to get your manhood-back kind).
> Apparently, you can rename a trait (like stonewalling) into something "healthy", like citing boundaries or "disconnecting the hose". And it is then makes it O.K.


The difference is motivation.

If you're trying to punish someone and control things, that's not healthy.
If you're disengaging from a conversation because the other person says something that you've *previously told them* is hurtful or disrespectful to you, or calming yourself down, it's enforcing a boundary or caring for yourself.

I'll send you a pm later today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DocHoliday (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks,
I have looked into the alphausa - does not seem very popular here, site is outdated.

But there is a 2.5 hr intro to IMAGO on Sept 30 that I signed up for..
Thank everyone for the good advice.

Rather busy time with my job, but I will step back in after the intro session and tell you how it went.

Anyone tried the IMAGO weekend?


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

DocHoliday said:


> Today was a sad day. In MC, we admitted were at impass. We surely love each other, but our dynamic of distrust and anger takes over any constructive counciling.
> I have come to the conclusion that you have to have three things, love, respect and care -- to make any progress.
> 
> This pattern has taken years to settle in, we are both guilty of this communication style. At this point I don't have a lot of hope for this changing.
> ...


Love, Respect, Care and TRUST!

When you don't trust that the other party has your best interests at heart, and wants to be in a happy marriage like you do, it won't work.

Talk to each other about what you want. Find the common ground. And trust that you love each other. When you find the trust you can stop being defensive in your communications.

My wife and I changed our communication dynamic. For over 10 years, our entire dynamic was bickering. Constant bickering. Criticism, defensiveness, and when we weren't doing that we were hissing and sighing at each other. Don't do that kind of passive aggressive stuff. It builds resentment and anger. We haven't had a fight or raised our voice at each other in months now.

AND let go of the need to be right, or the need to somehow make the other agree with you. You don't have to agree on everything. It's ok not to. Once you realize that, it's much easier to let things go.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I agree with Drover; trust and forgiveness are required for honest communication to take place. You have to force yourself to let go of resentments. You have to bite your tongue when sarcastic, angry thoughts come to mind. You have to leave the room when you feel yourself wanting to say demeaning things to your spouse. You have to want to be happy more than you want to be right.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

DocHoliday said:


> As a matter of fact STONEWALLING (not saying anything) is one of the most hurtful in my marriage. When my husband quits a conversation/argument I see it as passive agressive, he sees it as "avoiding unhealthy conversations".
> Good luck getting agreement on that....


It's possible he's trying to establish a legitimate boundary and just doing it incorrectly, or that you're misreading this.

It's perfectly reasonable to say, "look I'm not going to talk about this _while you're overly-emotional, raising your voice and being nasty about it._ But we can discuss it when you're ready to do so civilly. 

That's NOT stonewalling. Not saying that's your situation, just clarifying.

My wife used to stonewall when we'd argue. It made me crazy because I saw it as her refusing to discuss something that was important to me. We finally figured out that when she hadn't had time to rationally consider something, she turned to emotional arguments. Then she got upset and stonewalled to keep things from escalating. And I would try to follow her around insisting she talk about it, which filled her with anxiety and frustrated me.

We finally figured out all we needed to do was say, "let's talk about this in two hours after we've thought about it," or "let's set a time tomorrow to talk about this."

When we do that, I'm not frustrated because I know it will actually get discussed. And she doesn't get emotional because she's had time to think about it.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> I agree with Drover; trust and forgiveness are required for honest communication to take place. You have to force yourself to let go of resentments. You have to bite your tongue when sarcastic, angry thoughts come to mind. You have to leave the room when you feel yourself wanting to say demeaning things to your spouse. * You have to want to be happy more than you want to be right.*


Very well put!

I honestly don't even think about saying nasty things anymore. It doesn't even enter my head, and it really didn't take very long for this change to happen.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

All of these things are important and usually work IF both sides use them. When one blames the other and refuses to change their communication style, no amount of counseling or communication will help.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> All of these things are important and usually work IF both sides use them. When one blames the other and refuses to change their communication style, no amount of counseling or communication will help.


This is true, but if you change your approach to communication, you can hope to inspire change in your spouse. Of course nothing is fool-proof and works all of the time. If your spouse does not want to have a good marriage with you and refuses to break down walls, then the marriage is indeed doomed.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> All of these things are important and usually work IF both sides use them. When one blames the other and refuses to change their communication style, no amount of counseling or communication will help.


If they feel the need to discuss certain things, but you just refuse to do it when they behave badly, they'll have to make a choice. Change the behavior or not get their issues discussed.

Likewise, if she wants you take out the trash and thinks the way to do that is to nag you or berate you when you forget, point out that what she wants isn't going to happen unless she changes her approach.


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