# am very anxious over decision for trip with husband



## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

My husband has a potential business trip in a couple months to a location he and I visited a few years ago. we had an amazing time and just as our kids were pretty much grown up, it was an opportunity to really be together as a couple.

8 months and 14 months consecutively after we went, he went again for business but was in a place emotionally that i was not aware of and he cheated both those times on the last night of each 3 day stay. I found this out to begin with 2 years ago, then found out about the 2nd person 1 year ago. 

We have gone through all aspects of why and how, and what was going on for him and us during that time. We have been to counselling, read together and never at anytime was it an option for him to leave the marraige. It is not for me either. We are very committed and love each other very much.

That said, I am still dealing with the memories and because he disclosed all I have knowledge of the details. It has been most hurtful that these cheats happened in a place that we had such memorable times in. Now the city doesn't have the same feeling attached to it at all. I have grieved this loss in a big way. Sometimes I just want to be angry at the city (of course it's my husband I'm angry and hurt with).

This will be his last time going for the work related time he has been a part of this project. He has mixed feelings about going back and would just as soon not. We have talked about going together and this is his preference. I am not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand could we go to replace the negative feelings associated with it, or not waste my time and instead do something entirely different to have new memories.

Under the heading of not letting something control the outcome, should I go with my husband and change the outcome and would this somehow help our /my process?





Feeling very torn over what to do?:scratchhead:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Were it me, I'd probably go. Why? Because it's the safest thing to do. I would not trust him going on his own.

I know that might not be a good answer. But it's mine.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you should go. If you don't then you could drive yourself crazy while he's gone. If you go then maybe you can over-write some of those bad memories.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ocean wind said:


> My husband has a potential business trip in a couple months to a location he and I visited a few years ago. we had an amazing time and just as our kids were pretty much grown up, it was an opportunity to really be together as a couple.
> 
> 8 months and 14 months consecutively after we went, he went again for business but was in a place emotionally that i was not aware of and he cheated both those times on the last night of each 3 day stay. I found this out to begin with 2 years ago, then found out about the 2nd person 1 year ago.
> 
> ...


All that anyone in your position could reasonably be expected to do is to have clear boundaries in place... and to then enforce them when they're broken.

Having said that, this is probably why you are in such turmoil...



> _...never at anytime was it an option for him to leave the marraige. *It is not for me either.*_


Why isn't divorce on the table (for you) at all? Do you mean to say that you wouldn't consider it at all... even if he cheated again?!?


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

It was not an option for me to leave because I have understanding and although he made a huge mistake, we have invested alot in the 24 years we've been together. So together we will be. Unless for some reason he has not healed properly and cannot stay faithful. That is the boundry, and it is clear.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Re-claim your city!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

I would go it might help banish the negative images in your mind, you've reclaimed your man now reclaim the city and try have fun you deserve it


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Please go if you want to keep your husband as after the kids left and having free time he may have been tempted for the first time in 20 years when he had the affairs (which is inexcusable)
Once some one has cheated the next time becomes easier for them no matter the resolve

He hadn't had to use any boundaries away from home like that for years

Was the scenario when he cheated, he got talking to a girl yadda yadda and she came on to him and was looking for a fling and he fell into it ?

He wants you to go so that is a great sign

My self after the 2nd time I would have devoiced my wife ...god knows if I could accept 1st time


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

It is your choice. I couldn't go and have been faced with the same scenario with my STBXW, and found that too many negatives overrode the positives we had built there with family prior and I couldn't shake the triggers (of course one of the "friends" she went with we had went to that city a few times with their entire family as get aways. I now question things that might have happened during such times there).

I think first you need to stop making excuses for him. I am glad you to are working through this, but saying things like he was broken and might not be healed and he made "mistakes" is helping no one. He knew what he was doing as he did it on 2 separate occasions and he hid it from you, which tells he knew exactly what he was doing and he knew how wrong it was. I had 16 years married and 20 years together and I couldn't do it, no matter how many years we had together and time and effort invested. I do empathize with you as I feel that all was for nought now when I look back upon our time together, but I pin that onto her actions.

Only you know whether you can handle this or not, but I would hate to think that I would have to fight for all my good memories again. I can't live that way.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

ocean wind said:


> My husband has a *potential *business trip in a couple months to a location he and I visited a few years ago... *He has mixed feelings about going back and would just as soon not.* We have talked about going together and this is his preference.


Is not going at all an option? If so, that would be my choice -- neither of you go.

I think it will be a HUGE trigger for you, and I can't imagine that you would enjoy yourself at all.

If he must go, then you should absolutely go with him. He has proven on two occasions (that you KNOW of) that he is untrustworthy when traveling on business. No way would I let him go alone.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Go.

I think he needs you there as much as you need to be there.

And have fun.

Create new memories.

Hold him hard. Love him harder and then slap him in the face the hardest.

And tell him "You owe me for the rest of your life. never forget it."

Then do it all over again!


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Ocean,

Trip Triggering is a common issue for BS. I would definitely go. 

Bigger Issue...

As Squeakr says, you are still making excuses for his cheating. Dealing with real life, sickness, job loss, children screwing up, whatever... can stress any marriage, 100's of proper options, cheating is not, never one.

As you state, your H is a confirmed serial cheater. Caught once and a year later repeated and caught again. You do know that there is more. It is a rare pearl to ever have a confession of the whole truth. 

Way past time to lay down the Law.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

A "mistake" without consequences is a reward.

That aside. Go. Enjoy. Shop. Drink. See the sites. Stay and extra day or two. Enjoy!

Explain boundaries. Agree to them. FYI... It is your right file and serve D papers now or 5 years from now. He lost his vote on that when he made his "mistakes". 

It does sound like you both moved past this. There still is damage he needs to fix. He does the heavy lifting in reconciliation. Not you. He has to meet your standards. He needs to earn his way back to you. Has he done this? Every day the rest of his life.

Definitely go. Enjoy.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

Maybe a miscommunication on my part in my letter. Both cheats happened within an 8 month period during which I did not know of either. If we had turned things around, and then he repeated again I would view that as different.

They were both ONS and fortunately on second time he couldn't go thru with sex as he realized that it didn't resolve things the first time but was still looking for attention and feedback from someone. I spoke to the OW and she confirmed (without me asking directly) that they had not had sex. I know it sounds unbelievable, I did also for a long time. But knowing him and what his situation was at the time...it is likely that it is accurate. When I discovered the first one oct 2012, he did not tell me there had been a previous one earlier that year. He recognized the importance of disclosing all over time as we began our process , and a year later did. Since Oct 2012 we are cheat free. 

What I'm saying is that after all we've gone thru, I consider both infidelities during that 8 month time as one overall hit to our marriage. I believe we have uncovered much during this last 2 years and remain more committed than before. Don't recommend this route for anyone, but it has caused some very real openness and change. 

That said, he knows, and I know that now that we all know where everything is at. If there is that kind of insult to our marriage and me again, I would not feel any obligation to work through anymore and would not.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Fingers crossed for you both and as much as it hurts R can work and the stat's say the chances are better when its the guy that cheats

Which to me shows that women are wired a little differently about the physical act and have the emotional act higher up the tree and seem more forgiving (though I don't know if that's the right word)

any way enjoy the trip and don't get too sun burnt


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I still stand by my assessment that you are covering for him. Not trying to offend, but you sound like my STBXW. She sees it as really one action since she hadn't been caught yet. I don't agree especially since it was with different guys and over an extended period of time. Just because you didn't discover it, he still is a serial cheater, especially having done it with different people. MY STBXW tried to reason that her 2 year multiple sex incident with one of her OMs (as there were others) only counted as one offense, since it hadn't ended and started again. I disagree. When you slow it down, cut off contact for a period (no matter how short) and then start again it is another incident. She sees it as one LTR instead of multiple incidences, since no one knew and she wasn't discovered. Semantics I know, but more than once is serial no matter if it is discovered or not.

I don't see how you can view it as just one knock against your marriage, it was 2 different people and over an 8 month period. Would you view it the same if you had been married a shorter period of time? If yes then you need to rethink your situation, as it wasn't just a ONS, it was months (and possibly years) of lying and covering.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

first time he was approached and it was an ego boost for him. He was definately in a space where he was needing something for himself. He thought having sex with another would fix his many issues he was dealing with at the time. 8 months later, same city, away from home, same headspace. no disclosure to me had happened about the first time. Second time he enjoyed intellectual company and purposefully orchestrated that. He manipulated things so he could receive positive feedback and validation of himself. They went back to his room, some brief intimacy but not sex that time. It worked for a short time. Lots of realizations and most important he has learned about himself and what he really wants and needs.
I made the decision to stay with him as he has been a loyal and extremely supportive, caring husband for 24 yrs! Never any guarantees in life, but we have the best chance possible now.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

He has been there for me before and even more so after. He has never once become impatient with my process, we have had counselling together and apart. It's not perfect for me yet and I suspect that will be the case for a while. It's a big hit. 
He does the heavy lifting, and I suspect will continue to. 
I have to make sure I do things for myself to regain my confidence and self esteem. Thank you for caring


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I still stand by my assessment that you are covering for him. Not trying to offend, but you sound like my STBXW. She sees it as really one action since she hadn't been caught yet. I don't agree especially since it was with different guys and over an extended period of time. Just because you didn't discover it, he still is a serial cheater, especially having done it with different people. MY STBXW tried to reason that her 2 year multiple sex incident with one of her OMs (as there were others) only counted as one offense, since it hadn't ended and started again. I disagree. When you slow it down, cut off contact for a period (no matter how short) and then start again it is another incident. She sees it as one LTR instead of multiple incidences, since no one knew and she wasn't discovered. Semantics I know, but more than once is serial no matter if it is discovered or not.
> 
> I don't see how you can view it as just one knock against your marriage, it was 2 different people and over an 8 month period. Would you view it the same if you had been married a shorter period of time? If yes then you need to rethink your situation, as it wasn't just a ONS, it was months (and possibly years) of lying and covering.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

ha ha, that is an interesting tactic. We hold each other hard! He made the ultimate choice which is all on him. But people make choices when they are in pain as well. When they repeat after going thru the process, then they don't deserve the same understanding.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

Dear everyone I am replying to: I'm not sure Im correctly replying to each individual comment? Sorry if it's confusing, but as I don't use this much Im not sure if I know how to reply directly to each comment?


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## Trying95 (May 24, 2013)

I think you should go. You will trigger and it will be hard but hopefully your husband can be as supportive and do the heavy lifting there as he has been at home. I think it will help you to heal to re-claim experiences, places, music, etc with him and then make that place/experience "yours" together, again.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

People can and do make mistakes. I am glad you guys now have a good marriage...I would Go.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> I still stand by my assessment that you are covering for him. Not trying to offend, but you sound like my STBXW. She sees it as really one action since she hadn't been caught yet. I don't agree especially since it was with different guys and over an extended period of time. Just because you didn't discover it, he still is a serial cheater, especially having done it with different people. MY STBXW tried to reason that her 2 year multiple sex incident with one of her OMs (as there were others) only counted as one offense, since it hadn't ended and started again. I disagree. When you slow it down, cut off contact for a period (no matter how short) and then start again it is another incident. She sees it as one LTR instead of multiple incidences, since no one knew and she wasn't discovered. Semantics I know, but more than once is serial no matter if it is discovered or not.
> 
> I don't see how you can view it as just one knock against your marriage, it was 2 different people and over an 8 month period. Would you view it the same if you had been married a shorter period of time? If yes then you need to rethink your situation, as it wasn't just a ONS, it was months (and possibly years) of lying and covering.



I agree it was 2 hits not one. She is covering for him. I wish her the best, truly. She needs to see the whole picture and snap out of this fog. While he's doing the heavy lifting, he needs to come clean. Ocean Wind sounds like a great person who didn't deserve this. Why she tolerates it sounds like a security blanket to me.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Observer said:


> People can and do make mistakes. I am glad you guys now have a good marriage...I would Go.


Yes, they do, but cheating is never a mistake. It is a bad and horrendous decision at best, but it is never a mistake.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

ocean wind said:


> Maybe a miscommunication on my part in my letter. Both cheats happened within an 8 month period during which I did not know of either. If we had turned things around, and then he repeated again I would view that as different.
> 
> They were both ONS and fortunately on second time he couldn't go thru with sex as he realized that it didn't resolve things the first time but was still looking for attention and feedback from someone. I spoke to the OW and she confirmed (without me asking directly) that they had not had sex. I know it sounds unbelievable, I did also for a long time. But knowing him and what his situation was at the time...it is likely that it is accurate. When I discovered the first one oct 2012, he did not tell me there had been a previous one earlier that year. He recognized the importance of disclosing all over time as we began our process , and a year later did. Since Oct 2012 we are cheat free.
> 
> ...


Go with him and make new, better memories.

Don't get sucked down by the negativity of some posters. They have been very badly hurt in similar situations and have become very hard on cheaters as a result.

You know your husband best. And you and he sound like you have an otherwise good relationship. Which is why I say go with him and help him as he's helped you. Plenty of sex would probably be a good thing as well.

Good luck to you


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

My original question was about whether or not it may benefit me to go on this trip with my husband as he really wants us to regain a positive feeling again about the city we once enjoyed tremendously. I appreciate the feedback to that question as it has been most helpful and given me lots to think about. 

I am trying not to dwell on the cheating anymore, and the why 's have been answered. Now I want to make new roads as well so does my husband. I feel we are lucky to both agree strongly on this point, and no one has worked harder than he has to make sure I know that. 

For those who worry I have my head in the sand lol:

Not trying to defend, nor dismiss the severity of his mistake,choice ect. He did it all by himself. He 's responsible for that. It's not the way to resolve anything. We've been up and down that. 

As ugly as people's choices or mistakes can be, we are human and it's very healing when someone understands us and loves us.mistakes and all. I'm not perfect either, and he has stood strong for me. Never cheated, but am not perfect. Hopefully we all know when to draw the line so we are not abused emotionally or otherwise. 

I hope those who are also hurting as I am....can find some peace in various things day to day,and a person who loves them also.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

ocean,

I would be the last person to cast doubt, throw the stone, on your R. 

I've been married to my fww for now 35 years. At year 30, I caught her cheating with old college BF. Brief EAPA about a month long. Things had been screwed up for years. Knew there was more. A little investigating, bluffs, archived emails... she had been serial cheating for 7 years with multiple OM. She lied, minimized all the way to the truth. 

All I am saying is that Serial Cheaters rarely if ever admit the extent of what they have done. Hear a truth, once the deed is done, the next is almost automatic. It really is an addiction. They will only confess enough to satisfy your desire for the truth. When you back off, they go quiet. 

I had to know all, did I really ever get it? Probably not.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

ocean wind said:


> I made the decision to stay with him as *he has been a loyal* and extremely supportive, caring husband for 24 yrs! Never any guarantees in life, but we have the best chance possible now.


Loyal? NO

For your decision to go or not, I would not want to be in that location. How could you not think about what he did there those other times. BUT I would not want him to go either. That would be a real consequence of his past bad choices to cheat not once but twice at the same past business conferences. He should have to explain to his boss or supervisor that someone else will need to cover his part in the last meeting for this project due to his inappropriate actions at the past meetings.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

Abc123wife said:


> Loyal? NO
> 
> For your decision to go or not, I would not want to be in that location. How could you not think about what he did there those other times. BUT I would not want him to go either. That would be a real consequence of his past bad choices to cheat not once but twice at the same past business conferences. He should have to explain to his boss or supervisor that someone else will need to cover his part in the last meeting for this project due to his inappropriate actions at the past meetings.


I totally see your point in not going, but also see the value in making better memories despite the skeletons there. this is why the dilemma. we've discussed the option of him not going. He is willing to take steps to bow out. I have thought of him needing to disclose his actions. I don't feel this is out of line as we all need to own up to our actions.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

RWB said:


> ocean,
> 
> I would be the last person to cast doubt, throw the stone, on your R.
> 
> ...


Sorry you had to go through that after 30 years together. Even though things may get "screwed up" it s still a betrayal and that hurts. I guess you make a decision one way or the other based on what you know. Then rather than second guessing and waiting for next hit, you live each day with the best intentions because we never really know what's in store but can be satisfied that we did all we could to bring lots of spirit and good energy into our relationships. That is satisfying.

If we cast doom and gloom and pessimism, then things go wrong, how can that feel strengthening? Then we are dealing with more than one thing.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> Go with him and make new, better memories.
> 
> Don't get sucked down by the negativity of some posters. They have been very badly hurt in similar situations and have become very hard on cheaters as a result.
> 
> ...


Staying connected is everything! That has been a strength, and a weakness at times while raising a busy family. Nobody has a crystal ball. I like your idea of lots of sex as well!


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

ocean wind said:


> I totally see your point in not going, but also see the value in making better memories despite the skeletons there. this is why the dilemma. we've discussed the option of him not going. He is willing to take steps to bow out. I have thought of him needing to disclose his actions. I don't feel this is out of line as we all need to own up to our actions.


however, punishing him by asking him to disclose his actions to people who don't matter seems non productive in the end. We all fantasize about things we'd like to see happen or things we'd like to do. 
I was humiliated. I do not wish the same for him. right or wrong, thats the way I feel.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

There is something not right about what your husband is telling you. 

Your poor husband, driven to cheat because he was neglected. He picked up two random women at bars apparently easily. It takes skill, practice and focus to develop the skills to approach random women and then get them to trust a stranger enough to follow him back to a hotel room. He has an unusually good hit rate. He must be a charming playa, good looking and free with the cash, buying drinks, snacks, room service.

Does not sound like your husband, right? Of course not, he is a good actor and a manipulative, lying, deceptive man. He managed to convince you that he is not a serial cheater, he did not have sex with 2 OW, that this is his first go around, he is not in contact with OW and the most skillful lie of all he was driven to cheat and its your fault. Now the latter takes subtle manipulation skills. You called the OW for reassurance? she does not owe you the truth. She is a lier just like your husband. she won't tell you they are still communicating. 

How did you find out about the second episode of cheating. He broke down and told you? My take - he has been at this for a long time and he has you snowed. If you did some digging, you would find plenty of evidence. I have a feeling that you know but you don't want to know. At some point, you will meet this man so prepare yourself. Get tested periodically for STD"s.

I may be wrong, I hope I am.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Wow. Certainly something to consider. That assumes he's completely evil. Might be a big leap to get there. Certainly worth considering. 

That means stealth mode - get the cell phone, back it up and recover deleted texts, phone bill details going back years. Credit card receipts, VAR the car and the usual surveillance stuff. Weightlifters sig has the how to's. 

This will get the W a bit paranoid too. So she'll need to be calm and collected and not assume something's wrong until the facts are in.

She could NOT go on the trip and hire a PI there to keep tabs on him. Maybe even a female PI.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

RWB said:


> ocean,
> 
> I would be the last person to cast doubt, throw the stone, on your R.
> 
> ...


But do I understand correctly that the two of you are still married and together?


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

ocean wind said:


> however, punishing him by asking him to disclose his actions to people who don't matter seems non productive in the end. We all fantasize about things we'd like to see happen or things we'd like to do.
> I was humiliated. I do not wish the same for him. right or wrong, thats the way I feel.


I think the most important thing is honesty. You do not have to get any details from him if you do not wish to. What he does have to do for you is acknowledge that there ARE details, that things did happen.

From what you've written I gather that there are many other things that have gone on in your marriage -- illness, money problems, whatever -- and he's been there for you, helpful, supportive and so on. And so you feel that you owe him for that.

And you do owe him, just as he owes you for sticking around. But again, you both have to know this, you don't have to talk about it every day.

More, it sounds like you really love him. That's a good thing. So go with him and have fun.


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## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

I skipped over many of the posts, so ignore any ignorance I may have in my opinion.

I say go. Being able to go to where he was when he betrayed you and standing strong is the sugn of a strong woman.
You go. You hold you head up high and do not let things bother you.
Survival of the fittest.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Q tip said:


> Wow. Certainly something to consider. That assumes he's completely evil. Might be a big leap to get there. Certainly worth considering.
> 
> That means stealth mode - get the cell phone, back it up and recover deleted texts, phone bill details going back years. Credit card receipts, VAR the car and the usual surveillance stuff. Weightlifters sig has the how to's.
> 
> ...


What does the gender of the PI have to do with a BS verifying? Moreover, how is the need for verification of a lier signs of paranoia in a BS. 

She needs to woman-up, get angry, and find her self-respect. I would tell a man in this situation the same. She needs to hold her serial cheating husband totally accountable. All BS should do that. Has anyone ever cheated on you? We all are vulnerable you know. The path of true R knows no gender. 

Completely evil, of course not, unless you consider cheating on a spouse 2 times evil. A BS can speak to that better than I. However, I don't feel cheaters are beyond redemption. They can reform and never cheat again. 

I gave my take on the situation. It is not a stretch to believe that he is lying about prior cheating, having sex with these 2 OW and perhaps others. He is not remorseful, he feels justified to humiliate and hurt his wife when he is unhappy in the marriage. He is married to a woman who accepts whatever he says with no verification. 

Incredibly, she is the one who is laboring to fix herself and to make him happy because the poor thing is in so much pain that he hurt and humiliated her. He even exposed her to some really nasty STD's. A truly remorseful cheater thinks only of things they need to do so that their BS will not dump them. There is no room for thinking up reasons why a person in pain needs to take care of their BS.

Sorry that's the way I see this very disfunction relationship.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

sidney2718 said:


> I think the most important thing is honesty. You do not have to get any details from him if you do not wish to. What he does have to do for you is acknowledge that there ARE details, that things did happen.
> 
> From what you've written I gather that there are many other things that have gone on in your marriage -- illness, money problems, whatever -- and he's been there for you, helpful, supportive and so on. And so you feel that you owe him for that.
> 
> ...


This is absolutely incredible. Do you really think that his sticking around is a special service worthy of having sex with 2 or more OW? What is her sticking around worth? 

She owes him no more than he owes her. It is an absolute that he owes her his loyalty and fidelity. He failed that and he owes her remorse and atonement. At this point, she should not decide if she wants to risk STD's and more pain by deciding now if she will stay. 

She should not be thinking of what she owes him at this point. He is not worthy of anything if he can justify treating her like she is a disposable item. Hold him to a true R OP. If you feel that you can not manage the emotional pain that this trip will cause then don't go. If your husband needs your presence to monitor him then you would be better off bagging the trip and visiting a lawyer instead. He is too weak to remain faithful. Moreover, if you need to surveil him when he is traveling, your marriage is dead. 

I am not sure what happened here. These posts are surreal. The way this thread is evolving, by page 4 she will be advised to atone to him for his cheating.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

OP, to your original question. I say go. Don't let any negativity derail or hamper YOUR progress. I always prefer to confront any negative thoughts directly. I try to never let anything exert control over me or my emotional state. That's my opinion.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

bfree said:


> OP, to your original question. I say go. Don't let any negativity derail or hamper YOUR progress. I always prefer to confront any negative thoughts directly. I try to never let anything exert control over me or my emotional state. That's my opinion.


I can understand this ideal and not backing down to such thoughts and things, but do you purposely choose to put yourself into these confrontational situations, as that is what going on the trip would do?? 

We can choose not to let the negativity control us, but that doesn't mean we also have to put ourself directly into it's path.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

sidney2718 said:


> But do I understand correctly that the two of you are still married and together?


Yep


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> I can understand this ideal and not backing down to such thoughts and things, but do you purposely choose to put yourself into these confrontational situations, as that is what going on the trip would do??
> 
> We can choose not to let the negativity control us, but that doesn't mean we also have to put ourself directly into it's path.


Actually I do force myself into situations on occasion so that these "anxious ideas" lose their power. But in the OP's situation I don't see confrontational as much as I see anxiety over the unknown. Sometimes you need to stand up to fear even if it only exists in your own mind.


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## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

ocean wind --- let the doubters and naysayers spew their venom so maybe they can feel good about opening a wound and heaping copious quantities of salt into it. WOW!!!

Of course, infidelity is outrageous and casts a huge knife into a marriage but to your credit, you have moved on from your husband's failing. Good for YOU!! 

We mortals have ALL made mistakes (paint that word any color that you choose) and thank God our spouse, partner, whatever, was satisfied and understood the whys and who of the situation. It certainly does not always turn out that way but apparently, in your and your husbands situation it did and I applaud you for having the courage to preserve your marriage the best that you can. It may not be prefect (please show me one that is) but it is much better than spending the rest of your life full of hatred. My wife and I have been married 53 years and while there never was infidelity, my wife to her credit looks beyond all of my faults; a saint I am not! And I will add, neither are all of the doubters and naysayers on this board; no one is wearing a Halo!

Please go with your H and carve new experiences together in the area where his infidelity occurred. If the pain of his failings becomes too much, avoid those areas (places) the best that you can but GO. Your support and love will help the both of you heal and validate to you that your H can and will be in the right mental frame of mind for your marriage.

GO and God bless the both of you!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ifweonly said:


> ocean wind --- let the doubters and naysayers spew their venom so maybe they can feel good about opening a wound and heaping copious quantities of salt into it. WOW!!!
> 
> Of course, infidelity is outrageous and casts a huge knife into a marriage but to your credit, you have moved on from your husband's failing. Good for YOU!!
> 
> ...


I hope that you never have to experience the pain and suffering of infidelity. If you do I hope that you come back and apologize to all that you have insulted. You have purposely chosen words like Venom and the "salt into the wound" as if we are to blame for the hurt we carry. Once you experience such pain (may you never have to) I hope that you can look on life with your unicorns and rainbows view you currently share. 

Infidelity is one of the most painful things most people will ever experience and the OP came here asking about such things, so it is not unexpected to get a dose of realistic response and experience. 

It is easy to tell someone to go to a place of pain, when you have never been there, how can you say it is the best path for her having never experienced such? Those of us that have experienced it are trying to save her from such pain and I think yes some could have done it more tactfully, but then again it is no more insulting than your rendition.

Thanks for your input, but please leave out the vitriol towards other until you have walked a mile in their shoes.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

ifweonly said:


> ocean wind --- let the doubters and naysayers spew their venom so maybe they can feel good about opening a wound and heaping copious quantities of salt into it. WOW!!!
> 
> Of course, infidelity is outrageous and casts a huge knife into a marriage but to your credit, you have moved on from your husband's failing. Good for YOU!!
> 
> ...


Infidelity is not a mistake or a failing that BS's need to simply get over. It is so egregious that "forsake all others" is specifically included in the wedding vows. It is mentioned more than once in the Bible. In fact, it is so serious that the sin of D is automatically forgiven. 

Infidelity adversely destablizes the lives of innocent souls, children. It devastates a loving spouse and exposes them to possibly incurable diseases. It is based on lust, and selfishness. Since it is so serious, the WS needs to feel the full scope of the betrayal, sincerely repent, atone to the persons whose lives they devastated. 

OP's husband shows no sign that he accepts the devastation that he brought to his family. He says he is sorry but he has a reason, he was unhappy. Unhappiness should drive a spouse to solve the problems not pick up woman in bars. He is sorry he got caught not for destroying his wife and family. 

You are fortunate to have never been touched by infidelity as far as you know. I have. My father was a serial cheater. He had a loyal women who brought 4 children into the would. He depressed her throughout the marriage. My mothers depression and my father's distraction, destroyed the lives of me and my sister and brothers. . 

That's why infidelity is singled out in wedding vows and the Bible. The process of R is complex and many layered. The OP is rushing to "get over it" because she is not willing to face the person her husband really is, a lying, selfish and deceptive man. OP should not forgive and decide if she should R until she knows who she married. She has a responsibility to protect herself and her family, so she must be sure he is committed to fix himself. 

OP, read some of the other stories of infidelity and R. Read the advice that other posters are getting and follow them. There is a post on the signs of true and false R. Find it. The advice you are getting is very different from others that I have read. Read post from posters who have forgiven easily and then face another episode of infidelity. Decide what you want to do after some thought.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

RWB said:


> Yep


That's a big win for reconciliation!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

It is if the R was successful and the marriage happier and better. If they are no better than before and just going through the marriage motions while still contemplating D then it means nothing really.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

ifweonly said:


> ocean wind --- *let the doubters and naysayers spew their venom so maybe they can feel good about opening a wound and heaping copious quantities of salt into it.* WOW!!!
> 
> *We mortals have ALL made mistakes...*
> 
> My wife and I have been married 53 years and *while there never was infidelity, *my wife to her credit looks beyond all of my faults; a saint I am not! And I will add, neither are all of the doubters and naysayers on this board; no one is wearing a Halo!


ifweonly,

Hear a truth... The real hurt, pain, anguish of Infidelity cannot, never, be truly understood from the 2nd row. Ask anyone that was in-love, cherished, trusted their spouse with their life how their feelings about infidelity were before and after and maybe you just might understand. 

I still doubt it. 

FYI... using the word Mistake in reference to Cheating is as inflammatory as it gets to a BS. 



Catherine602 said:


> *Infidelity is not a mistake or a failing that BS's need to simply get over. It is so egregious that "forsake all others" is specifically included in the wedding vows. *
> 
> Infidelity adversely destabilizes the lives of innocent souls that the couples has been blessed with, children. It devastates a loving spouse and exposes them to possibly incurable diseases. It is based on lust, and selfishness. *Since it is so serious, the WS needs to feel the full scope of the betrayal, *sincerely repent, atone to the persons whose lives they devastated...
> 
> ...


C602,

You go girl!


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## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

I expected the hostile flame throwers to come out and try to --- flame me. Good job --- I can handle ALL that they want to dish out; so have at it!!!

I am not a 25 year old and will not apologize for my life long experience. I also have had the opportunity to actually communicate with those who have actually cheated on their spouse and the spouse that was cheated on. A person does not have to experience a major life altering event in order to make an intelligent observation.

No one has to recite chapter and verse on what is written in the Bible -- especially about marriage. My wife and I never have strayed from our marriage and never will. We both have more scruples than that and you can take that to the bank!

Ocean wind did not come here asking for this board to pass judgment on her vetting of her husband's infidelity. She simply stated her concern about her husband's trip. I do not recall that she even revealed the what or why on how she came to her current frame of mind. Whatever process she used, apparently ocean wind is reasonably comfortable as to where she is at this point. I repeat, cutting open that wound and pouring salt into it solves nothing. Give her the benefit of doubt (I surmise she is an intelligent woman)--- and could the marriage eventually blow up? Of course it could but over 50% of marriages do -- like you did not know that already from personal experience. Right?

I will continue to give ocean wind credit for trying to put the pieces of her and her husband's marriage back together and make it work. Hard work? Of course it is but at least she and her husband have the intestinal fortitude to go forward and not sit around and flame the rest of the world with anger.

The Best to ocean wind and her husband's marriage!!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

So you admit that you came here to troll? Please don't as there is enough pain on this site without you purposely trying to invite more. 

You have started both of your posts with attacks on other posters so yes it appears the case.

No one has implied your observations are not intelligently made but that you are not fully experienced or informed in infidelity having never experienced it. I hope for your sake you don't, but don't ever say never. Lots of us have thought the same at one point in our marriages and we have scruples as well. In fact statistics state 80% of marriages are touched by infidelity and never discovered, so you may in fact be one of those or become one of those. I again hope you don't but at least if you are part of that statistic you'll never know the pain (and that is a good thing).

So you may have talked to WS and BS doesn't mean you understand the pain experienced. I suppose next you'll claim you now how it feels to experience childbirth as you have talked to mothers as well, or that soldiers with PTSD are just faking it as you have read about war in a book or paper. Intelligent and logical decisions, conclusions, and recommendations are not always truly informed, especially in the cases of infidelity as these things aren't always at play within betrayal and usually defy their standards of acceptance.

If you care to give your opinions and recommendations to the OP then please do so? But withhold your vitriol and chastising for the others to yourself. As like you state in defending the OP others didn't come here to have you pass judgement upon them, they just want to help and although some are harsh no one is judging her. Also people come here for help and to be able to get assistance and support in moving on. If you think this is just fun times and everyone is wallowing in their pity, then you have no idea of what is happening here (which is exactly why I state the same about infidelity and not fully understanding it until you've been there). Maybe some other section of TAM would be better suited to your liking.

And you haven't experienced flaming. If you think this is it, then you are naive or have no idea what that is. If it is what you came here seeking then once again please don't and go elsewhere for such attention as there are plenty of other places that will supply that to you in spades. 

Good day.


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## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

Squeakr -- you are doing to me exactly what you believe I have done. I am not a troll (call me whatever you want -- I don't really care) for the purpose of my post was to offer support to ocean wave and nothing else. It was others who flamed me and my response was to have at it! I am much better than the picture you are trying to paint but it will not work; throw away your brush I am very resolve.

I do not believe that one has to burn their hand over open flame in order to experience pain and learn not to do it again. We can learn from the experience of others; I have.

I am very sorry that you and others have experienced your marriage challenges. I don't know your pain first hand (never ever will) but I only wish that all of you could have had a marriage as good that my wife and I have had. I truly wish this for ocean wave and her husband as well as they go forward.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> But do I understand correctly that the two of you are still married and together?


yes, we are still married and together. I can appreciate the strong feelings of some posters at this website. Thanks for advising me specifically on my question!


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

bfree said:


> Actually I do force myself into situations on occasion so that these "anxious ideas" lose their power. But in the OP's situation I don't see confrontational as much as I see anxiety over the unknown. Sometimes you need to stand up to fear even if it only exists in your own mind.


If I do decide to go, facing the anxiety would be exactly the reason to do it. Among others. If we (a BS) are moving forward, and I am, then I don't want to have past memories standing in front of me. So it's a decision on which one's to confront and which one's to let be!


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

ifweonly said:


> Squeakr -- you are doing to me exactly what you believe I have done. I am not a troll (call me whatever you want -- I don't really care) for the purpose of my post was to offer support to ocean wave and nothing else. It was others who flamed me and my response was to have at it! I am much better than the picture you are trying to paint but it will not work; throw away your brush I am very resolve.
> 
> I do not believe that one has to burn their hand over open flame in order to experience pain and learn not to do it again. We can learn from the experience of others; I have.
> 
> I am very sorry that you and others have experienced your marriage challenges. I don't know your pain first hand (never ever will) but I only wish that all of you could have had a marriage as good that my wife and I have had. I truly wish this for ocean wave and her husband as well as they go forward.


thank you for your good wishes!


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> There is something not right about what your husband is telling you.
> 
> Your poor husband, driven to cheat because he was neglected. He picked up two random women at bars apparently easily. It takes skill, practice and focus to develop the skills to approach random women and then get them to trust a stranger enough to follow him back to a hotel room. He has an unusually good hit rate. He must be a charming playa, good looking and free with the cash, buying drinks, snacks, room service.
> 
> ...


sounds like you know my husband well....and others like him possibly? Im not trying to be intentionally facetious or make light of infidelity. First of all, my question at this forum was about taking a trip for various reasons and curiousity of the potential benefit or not to hurtful memories. You've backed the truck way up when I've already driven miles forward. You have strong and would have sometimes also accurate depictions and conclusions of the characters of men or women who cheat. Whether they fit for each situation is entirely unknown with such little info. It is difficult to know a persons true character,motivations,remorse ect. from small exerpts in written form. I read some from this forum, and hope to gain some insights and sometimes answers from the vast knowledge and experiences. I have learned alot from many sources about myself and my marriage, and thankfully will continue to keep learning. You may call that "not womaning up" or "not holding him accountable." Again, an assumption in knowing a persons character and difficult to describe. The intricate details of day to week to month to year healing and insights that happen to the BS and WS in each situation are both similar and different. I believe we are all accountable and share responsibility in the better and worse in a relationship/marriage. You are correct that no one deserves to be cheated on. We all deserve to be treated with dignity. I was not and am not under any illusions about that. 

No matter how I describe it, it will be seen differently by all. I think the better person to speak to feelings of whether there is remorse,serial cheating, years of lies and future motivations is the WS themself. But then...other than to the partner who knows them most intimately....it would probably be futile for the most part which is why there are more BS than WS opening up at this forum. Wishing you all the best


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ifweonly said:


> Squeakr -- you are doing to me exactly what you believe I have done. I am not a troll (call me whatever you want -- I don't really care) for the purpose of my post was to offer support to ocean wave and nothing else. It was others who flamed me and my response was to have at it! I am much better than the picture you are trying to paint but it will not work; throw away your brush I am very resolve.
> 
> I do not believe that one has to burn their hand over open flame in order to experience pain and learn not to do it again. We can learn from the experience of others; I have.
> 
> I am very sorry that you and others have experienced your marriage challenges. I don't know your pain first hand (never ever will) but I only wish that all of you could have had a marriage as good that my wife and I have had. I truly wish this for ocean wave and her husband as well as they go forward.


Sorry, but I am doing nothing of the sort. The only reason that others "flamed" you as you say (and I don't see it that way as you need to look at the source here) is because you came on here immediately calling out other posters and their posts and being heinous about it. You had no need to start your posts with nothing but insults about the other posters and their beliefs that you (admit to here) have never experienced first hand. Its not nice to characterize others that have a viewpoint different than yours as unintelligent, venomous, and everything else you have done. Sorry but that is what a troll does, posts to only incite others into argument and insult them and you asked for it in your first post.

I agree that one doesn't need to experience the pain firsthand to know it is not a good feeling nor to be able to sympathize for others that have, but you can't empathize with them if you have no experience from which to draw upon. Calling someones intentions as voluntarily mean and hurtful is not fair when you don't know the intentions from where they are coming.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Ocean wave
You sound like a very positive, forgiving and lovely person. I hope your husband knows that he has beginners luck, he met and married a precious woman. Cheating indicates that he does not value what he has - he risked losing you for a romp with a few women in bars who can't hold a candle to you

My post reflected my experience of growing up with a cheater and the many post that I have read here on TAM. I know how easy for cheaters to hide who they really are. How easy it is for them to lie and pretend. But your husband is unique to himself. So you are right, you know far better than I. 

I admire the depth to which you feel you do know your husband. Therefore you know, without verification, that you can trust that he is sincere in his remorse and will never cheat again. 

I feel reassured by your recent posts that you do know your husband much better than I first thought. You know and accept that he is the type of person who responds to marital problems by picking up women in bars. That he is capable of an acting job so convincing that he had you fooled. That he might have continued to pick up women had you not discovered his deception. That you know him to be capable of reform despite his weaknesses. 

I am assuming that you failed to keep an eye on him despite knowing his weaknesses and tendency towards cheating. I can understand now why you forgive him so easily. You know him so well that you expected that, under the usual pressures of the ups and downs of marriage, he might cheat.


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## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Sorry, but I am doing nothing of the sort. The only reason that others "flamed" you as you say (and I don't see it that way as you need to look at the source here) is because you came on here immediately calling out other posters and their posts and being heinous about it. You had no need to start your posts with nothing but insults about the other posters and their beliefs that you (admit to here) have never experienced first hand. Its not nice to characterize others that have a viewpoint different than yours as unintelligent, venomous, and everything else you have done.[/[/COLOR]COLOR] Sorry but that is what a troll does, posts to only incite others into argument and insult them and you asked for it in your first post.
> 
> I agree that one doesn't need to experience the pain firsthand to know it is not a good feeling nor to be able to sympathize for others that have, but you can't empathize with them if you have no experience from which to draw upon. Calling someones intentions as voluntarily mean and hurtful is not fair when you don't know the intentions from where they are coming.


Okay Squeakr, and you are a saint???? Your analysis of my posts do not project a "Glowing" image of yourself. Apparently, you have an inability to understand what others are writing. An expert you are not! 

Have a Lovely Day.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Squeakr, you see the logical fallacies, don't rise to the bait.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ifweonly said:


> Okay Squeakr, and you are a saint???? Your analysis of my posts do not project a "Glowing" image of yourself. Apparently, you have an inability to understand what others are writing. An expert you are not!
> 
> Have a Lovely Day.


Exactly what I am talking about. Direct attacks without reason or provocation (might want to reread the forum rules if you haven't recently) and not in any way related to any postings. I never claimed to be either of those things which you are now accusing me of nor have I ever claimed to possess such qualities (talk about reading comprehension issues). Yet I have at least an iota of decorum and respect and have yet to directly attack you, as you are doing to me now and every other poster you disagree with in prior posts, and for the record how you are interpreting my posts makes no matter to me (as your assessment of others is definitely suspect and if you are defining my image based upon not agreeing with your vitriol then so be it, as to how YOU are viewing me I couldn't care less).

Please refrain from further postings if all you can do is insult and cast stones as it serves nobody (especially the OP) any good (well I don't know it may be helping you in some way, and if this is the case then I feel sorry for the miserable life you must be leading).

I apologize to the OP for the thread jack.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> So you admit that you came here to troll? Please don't as there is enough pain on this site without you purposely trying to invite more.
> 
> You have started both of your posts with attacks on other posters so yes it appears the case.
> 
> ...


You are (and have been) flaming IfWeOnly. His viewpoint is different than yours. Accept that. You don't have to agree with him, but you do have to allow him to speak.

And yes, he's been a bit rough on some posters. He has in some ways challenged the basic notions of many TAMites, that there is nothing worse than infidelity (which is clearly wrong), and that one can never really get over the expectations of lifelong honesty and fidelity that have been violated (this is also wrong, most of us got over Santa Claus years ago.)

What I just wrote does not make IfWeOnly right, nor does it make him wrong. But I would note that I've been married to the same woman for longer than he has been married to his wife. Perhaps we older folks have gained some wisdom over the years? Nah, couldn't happen.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

ocean wind said:


> yes, we are still married and together. I can appreciate the strong feelings of some posters at this website. Thanks for advising me specifically on my question!


Thank you. TAM is a valuable place. The takeaway lesson is that people are often very badly hurt by things like dishonesty and infidelity.

Again, I wish you luck. Move forward!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> You are (and have been) flaming IfWeOnly. His viewpoint is different than yours. Accept that. You don't have to agree with him, but you do have to allow him to speak.
> 
> And yes, he's been a bit rough on some posters. He has in some ways challenged the basic notions of many TAMites, that there is nothing worse than infidelity (which is clearly wrong), and that one can never really get over the expectations of lifelong honesty and fidelity that have been violated (this is also wrong, most of us got over Santa Claus years ago.)
> 
> What I just wrote does not make IfWeOnly right, nor does it make him wrong. But I would note that I've been married to the same woman for longer than he has been married to his wife. Perhaps we older folks have gained some wisdom over the years? Nah, couldn't happen.


Obviously your age and wisdom doesn't translate to more modern times, as I have in no way flamed him, nor am I (except by two older and "wiser" posters). Pointing out someones inconsistencies and wrongs is not flaming and I have not tried to silence him as you say, but have asked him to present his recommendations and opinions without direct attacks and lashing out at others, which he apparently he can't as every post has started out with basically a disclaimer that he is going to bash the BS for their viewpoints stated, and asked if he can't to refrain from posting. Sorry but that is not the same as silencing , but merely exercising good judgement and decorum.

Just because you believe something doesn't make it so. No matter the age or wisdom gained, your opinion is not the gospel (funny how you are telling me to let him speak his mind yet you are not practicing what you preach by telling everyone that feels infidelity is the worst thing that can happen to them in their life are wrong, especially having not experienced it yourself to know the hurt). Since that statement is true for many, it is NOT "clearly wrong" but not an all encompassing truth. There is a difference.

Getting over Santa Claus and vows of honesty and fidelity?? Nothing like trivializing the pain that many have felt by comparing an imaginary ideal/ being with something real, cherished, and vowed/promised in front of God. Wow, what a slap in the face to those that have been dealing within infidelity in their life. So are you saying these things are merely an ideal and not real? How would you know they get over them, and don't just adjust and move one? Getting over something is an entirely different action that moving on as once shattered it is impossible to get back that feeling/naivety to fully trust without question.

Obviously wisdom is overrated then. If you believe that insulting others intelligence, logic, feelings, and experiences through outlandish claims, insults, and name calling is representative of wisdom, then I care not to have any part of your ideal of wisdom (as this is what has been exhibited so far). I would think that wisdom would give someone the demeanor to act in a civil manor and not resort to the above mentioned acts, yet presenting logical and well thought out proposals and recommendations and not starting posts with insults and vitriol? This is what I would expect from the unwise. Guess I am not old enough and haven't gained that useful "wisdom" in my life then to recognize true "wisdom". Age and wisdom aren't necessarily interchangeable nor guaranteed. Long life with no experience can yield little wisdom, whereas much experience with little age can yield lots of experience. Wisdom is not reserved for the elderly.


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## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Obviously your age and wisdom doesn't translate to more modern times, as I have in no way flamed him, nor am I (except by two older and "wiser" posters). Pointing out someones inconsistencies and wrongs is not flaming and I have not tried to silence him as you say, but have asked him to present his recommendations and opinions without direct attacks and lashing out at others, which he apparently he can't as every post has started out with basically a disclaimer that he is going to bash the BS for their viewpoints stated, and asked if he can't to refrain from posting. Sorry but that is not the same as silencing , but merely exercising good judgement and decorum.
> 
> Just because you believe something doesn't make it so. No matter the age or wisdom gained, your opinion is not the gospel (funny how you are telling me to let him speak his mind yet you are not practicing what you preach by telling everyone that feels infidelity is the worst thing that can happen to them in their life are wrong, especially having not experienced it yourself to know the hurt). Since that statement is true for many, it is NOT "clearly wrong" but not an all encompassing truth. There is a difference.
> 
> ...


Okay Squeakr --- I am not going away and will continue to offer my opinion however tainted by my mature age, lack of wisdom and no life experience! If you only knew!!!!! 

Have a Good Day!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ifweonly said:


> Okay Squeakr --- I am not going away and will continue to offer my opinion however tainted by my mature age, lack of wisdom and no life experience! If you only knew!!!!!
> 
> Have a Good Day!


See there you go again as I never said any of that. Might want to take a reading comprehension class as basic interpretation and comprehension seem to be escaping you at the moment if you really got that from what I wrote, as that is not what it says at all. Fine stay and offer your opinion, just don't bash others in the process because they don't agree with you, and that is what I am saying. If you wife or friends don't agree with you, do you call them names and belittle them, like you do others here? No you don't, so just act the same way here. That is what I am suggesting. Every but of advice you gave to the OP could have been equally given, without the statements bashing others, and wouldn't have meant anything less or lost any meaning (ini fact it might have meant more as it didn't look like you were only out to start an argument and belittle others because you don't agree with others. Keep in mind one can argue a point to others and present their opinions and view points without insulting or attacking the other party in the process.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

My H has travelled relentlessly for his career, often to the same place (same country, city, hotel).

If this had happened to me and we were trying to reconcile, I would not allow him to take the trip. It would simply not be worth the anguish.

I realize that there will be myriad professional and logistical reasons that OP will have for saying that he absolutely must go, but I don't think I would buy that if I were in her shoes.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> My H has travelled relentlessly for his career, often to the same place (same country, city, hotel).
> 
> If this had happened to me and we were trying to reconcile, I would not allow him to take the trip. It would simply not be worth the anguish.
> 
> I realize that there will be myriad professional and logistical reasons that OP will have for saying that he absolutely must go, but I don't think I would buy that if I were in her shoes.


yes, maybe if we were trying to reconcile. We have very much moved forward. We have an opportunity to go back to the city together, and he wants us to do this as more steps forward for us, and for me to have a chance to generate different less painful feelings about the place we once enjoyed together.

and by the way, many thanks for replying to and answering my question! I was beginning to worry that we may never get back to it! lol


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I will not go. To me, that City would be a major trigger and for what ? to place myself in such a position?

In your case, if you are moving forward with your marriage and you have accepted to forgive him, that is great, but to go to the same location he , supposedly had the "only two affairs, or ONS" whatever you want to call it,to make him feel better ? ( because in his mind , if you go, trust me, it is like you are saying OK to the fact that he cheated on you, not major consequences ). I WILL NOT go.
Furthermore, if you have to go with him just to make sure it doesn't repeat himself when it comes to controlling his emotions, desires .... well ... I don't know what to tell you ....


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

malagacoast said:


> I will not go. To me, that City would be a major trigger and for what ? to place myself in such a position?
> 
> In your case, if you are moving forward with your marriage and you have accepted to forgive him, that is great, but to go to the same location he , supposedly had the "only two affairs, or ONS" whatever you want to call it,to make him feel better ? ( because in his mind , if you go, trust me, it is like you are saying OK to the fact that he cheated on you, not major consequences ). I WILL NOT go.
> Furthermore, if you have to go with him just to make sure it doesn't repeat himself when it comes to controlling his emotions, desires .... well ... I don't know what to tell you ....


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

malagacoast said:


> I will not go. To me, that City would be a major trigger and for what ? to place myself in such a position?
> 
> In your case, if you are moving forward with your marriage and you have accepted to forgive him, that is great, but to go to the same location he , supposedly had the "only two affairs, or ONS" whatever you want to call it,to make him feel better ? ( because in his mind , if you go, trust me, it is like you are saying OK to the fact that he cheated on you, not major consequences ). I WILL NOT go.
> Furthermore, if you have to go with him just to make sure it doesn't repeat himself when it comes to controlling his emotions, desires .... well ... I don't know what to tell you ....


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

He would like us to both go and hopes for me that it will help in the healing for me and both of us as we had very fond memories there once before. I could see how some may think that it would be a piece of cake for him to take the trip especially with me as it would seem like business as usual. Hunky dory, everythings like old times. Without going into the chapters of the process we have gone through, it's safe to say that withholding pleasurable times with one another is not in the long run going to impose "natural consequences" or move us forward. Natural consequences include watching your partner hurt and in pain, having thousands of hours of discussion at any time of day or night and as many times as needed in the early part of the process and currently if needed. Examining all aspects of yourselves and marriage. You are assuming that him returning there with me is going to be enjoyable and consequence free for him. If my only reason for going with him was to keep an eye on him....then all the work we've done will have meant nothing. That is no way to live in a marriage. I would end it if I felt that he needed to be watched from now on. I have decided to go for a few reasons one of which is that at least I have a chance of remembering the city differently instead of with pain,regret and hurt whenever it's referred to and it is all the time.I have nothing to lose and everything to gain is the way I see it. I would like to be in control rather than it controlling me. I have some time behind me now, so it's one more thing to think differently in the process.If I've made a mistake in going, I will deal with that. It won't be more painful than where I've been! Thank you for your thoughts, they are much appreciated


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

HE DOES NOT HEALING!!!!! He needs to be sorry! Really, really sorry!! In words and actions!!

YOU NEED HEALING!!! And he needs to be on his knees begging your forgiveness!

Sheesh! I don't get your covering for him.


And here is how it should be:

Whether he gets to go to that city or not should be your decision - not his!!!! If you decide that he should go, then it should be with you and you get to call all the shots. You decide where, when and for how long.

Then do all the things that others are saying and make memories etc. But he needs a good a$$ kicking first!


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## ninashka (Feb 5, 2015)

If it were me, I would definitely go. For a number of reasons:

1. If you don't go with him, you are probably going to be HELLA anxious the entire time he is gone and you are home without him. That is torture to spend 3 days that way! You're going to wonder where he is, what he's doing, who he's with, why he didn't text you back right away, why he took so long to answer his phone. You're going to wonder if he thought thought about her/them at all while he was out there, and if he/they tried to contact each other....there will just be so many unknowns for you, and rightly so...you were cheated on....your trust has been destroyed. Who's wouldn't after that? 

2. Going is your chance to exercise some control in the situation. You will be able to control who he's with, what he does, and even what he's thinking about since you will be there the whole time making him think about you. Going is your chance to claim back what those *****es that slept with your married husband stole from you -- from both of you -- Don't let a couple of nights of EXTREMELY POOR judgement ruin your special place. 

3. Going with him gives you a chance to make new memories. Something that is very much needed right now. You won't be able to put this to rest until you literally put it to rest....so dive in head first and plow forward and make new memories with him there!!! Make the last memories he has of that place about you - - not those *****es!

4. Going with him will make a statement for you..sort of mark your territory with these *****es. Who knows who they are, but chances are they will know he's coming out there, and if he comes with you, they'll see that and believe me...no matter what they say or do...it will bother them!!!!!! You may not even know they are aware of you there...who knows....

5. Going with him gives you a chance to check out who the hell else is having to go there for "business". If one of these *****es turns out to be a co-worker or someone related to the job tell your husband that you want him to take you and go up to her and tell her "I wish I'd never have had sex with you, it was the biggest mistake of my life and my wife is way better in bed than you anyway". Then, if it's alright with him (lol)....slap that *****'s face!!

You have no reason why you shouldn't go and every reason why you should. At least your husband is willing to let you go with him. Don't pass up that opportunity hun.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

why are you assuming he hasn't had a good ass kicking?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Then why do you go on about him needing healing. Maybe he needs another a$$ kicking - I don't know. He seems to be calling the shots from what you say.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

I don't believe I've "gone on" about him healing. I've said its good for our healing. Besides...what is the point in me healing and him not? Some people want to be better, some won't or don't. Lots of different schools of thought for sure. Debates can go on forever!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

ocean wind said:


> It was not an option for me to leave because I have understanding and although he made a huge mistake, we have invested alot in the 24 years we've been together. So together we will *be. Unless for some reason he has not healed properly* and cannot stay faithful. That is the boundry, and it is clear.






ocean wind said:


> Maybe a miscommunication on my part in my letter. Both cheats happened within an 8 month period during which I did not know of either. If we had turned things around, and then he repeated again I would view that as different.
> 
> They were both ONS and fortunately on second time he couldn't go thru with sex as he realized that it didn't resolve things the first time but was still looking for attention and feedback from someone. I spoke to the OW and she confirmed (without me asking directly) that they had not had sex. I know it sounds unbelievable, I did also for a long time. *But knowing him and what his situation was at the time..*.it is likely that it is accurate. When I discovered the first one oct 2012, he did not tell me there had been a previous one earlier that year. He recognized the importance of disclosing all over time as we began our process , and a year later did. Since Oct 2012 we are cheat free.
> 
> ...





ocean wind said:


> first time he was approached and it was an ego boost for *him. He was definately in a space where he was needing something for himself. He thought having sex with another would fix his many issues he was dealing with at the time. *8 months later, same city, away from home, same headspace. no disclosure to me had happened about the first time. Second time he enjoyed intellectual company and purposefully orchestrated that. He manipulated things so he could receive positive feedback and validation of himself. They went back to his room, some brief intimacy but not sex that time. It worked for a short time. Lots of realizations and most important he has learned about himself and what he really wants and needs.
> I made the decision to stay with him as he has been a loyal and extremely supportive, caring husband for 24 yrs! Never any guarantees in life, but we have the best chance possible now.





ocean wind said:


> ha ha, that is an interesting tactic. We hold each other hard! He made the ultimate choice which is all on him. *But people make choices when they are in pain as well. *When they repeat after going thru the process, then they don't deserve the same understanding.


And so on.... In almost every post you make excuses for him. Now whatever process you used to arrive at your current frame of mind has some unique qualities. And all this is directly related to your question about your going to this city or not. If you had dealt with this effectively you wouldn't be here asking this question - you would know that whatever "situation" your husband was in, he cold bloodedly and selfishly cheated on you- it's as simple as that. He had no regard for your "joint" feelings about the city and it's memories. He crushed all those in one fell swoop. And now as part of his "heavy lifting" he has asked if he can go back there (because he has to for work) and, oh, of course you should come too so that "we can make new memories" (puh-leeze) and you are buying this. He got off scott free and instead you are trying to help him start all over and make new memories - all because he was in a "situation" at the time.

I am in agreement with Catherine on this - nothing sounds right about this. If you both go back it should be with you calling the shots e.g. go back when you feel like going back and not for his project; maybe you should go back there without him and let him stew for awhile (that's the sort of a$$ kicking I was talking about.


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## ocean wind (Jan 16, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> And so on.... In almost every post you make excuses for him. Now whatever process you used to arrive at your current frame of mind has some unique qualities. And all this is directly related to your question about your going to this city or not. If you had dealt with this effectively you wouldn't be here asking this question - you would know that whatever "situation" your husband was in, he cold bloodedly and selfishly cheated on you- it's as simple as that. He had no regard for your "joint" feelings about the city and it's memories. He crushed all those in one fell swoop. And now as part of his "heavy lifting" he has asked if he can go back there (because he has to for work) and, oh, of course you should come too so that "we can make new memories" (puh-leeze) and you are buying this. He got off scott free and instead you are trying to help him start all over and make new memories - all because he was in a "situation" at the time.
> 
> I am in agreement with Catherine on this - nothing sounds right about this. If you both go back it should be with you calling the shots e.g. go back when you feel like going back and not for his project; maybe you should go back there without him and let him stew for awhile (that's the sort of a$$ kicking I was talking about.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Ocean Wind,
I'm new to this post and my heart goes out to you. I was there 27 yrs. ago and unfortunately it has all come back to haunt me 27 yrs. later, due to my husbands changing his ways. Stock market crash, ED issues but not seeking help for it and just plain anger over life. So all this sent me back into memories of his 3 yr. E/A? All the things that I really never found out about, the lack of trust and now, not even knowing if I love him anymore. I'm 71 yrs. old, I worked on our marriage for those 27 yrs., he didn't and he was never remorseful afterwards. Only now, when our marriage is falling apart is he trying. Does he understand triggers, no he doesn't. He thinks that since it's been so long ago that I should be fine now.

But in reference to your situation. I would not be able to put myself in the same city, hotel, etc. that my cheating husband had betrayed me twice. I wouldn't want to be in a place where we had made so many special memories and he didn't care enough about those memories that he was able to have 2 affairs there. Yes, I said two, because it was with 2 different people. Making new memories if you feel your marriage is going to work, would have to be somewhere else. If you can't trust him to go by himself, than that should tell you something. Not trying to be cruel, just telling you like it is. Trust has to start somewhere and this should give him the opportunity to prove to you that he will behave himself. 

In reference to trigger's, I know I have them all the time. My cheating husband took his mistress to the places where we celebrated anniversaries, special occasions, etc. He never thought about what we had shared together in those places, which tells me that our anniversary didn't mean to him, like it did to me. There will always be triggers and they are so hard to handle, at least in my case, as my CH doesn't respond in the right way. He just wants it all to go away. The things that should have been discussed 27 yrs. ago, he lied about so much and wouldn't discuss them when I tried to. My biggest mistake was, when I found out he had slept with her, 8 months after I found out about the affair, I should have divorced him. Don't put yourself in places where you might have trigger's, it isn't worth it. Why would you want to return to the scene of the crime?

I've learned a lot by reading your blog, but I'm sorry your having to deal with it. You have come to the right place, there are so many nice people on here that will give you support and advice. Some you might not like, but most of it is done to help you. I wish you the best of luck in your decision.

Granny7


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