# Pastor caught with female in office, should he leave?



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Our church has been rocked by an incident in which the senior pastor was walked in on by the janitor, while he was kissing a female member of the church. She was shirtless. Needless to say, this has caused great descention and disagreement in the church the last few weeks.

He has submitted his resignation as pastor, and it has been accepted by the church board. He made a public admission of sin to the congregation, but did not get into details. Both the families involved (both are married) have been told and have forgiven each other.

Both the former Pastor (apparently you lose the title after an incident) and his wife would like to stay on in the congregation, based on their close ties after 12 years of ministry. The deacons are encouraging him to move on, but not forcing him out. Is that appropriate or even necessary?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

One of the two couples should leave.


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## foolscotton3 (Nov 13, 2014)

Yes he should be pushed out

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## xxyesenia25 (Jun 18, 2016)

Yes, he was aware of what he was doing. He needs to be an adult and move on not only for his family but for the congregation. If both parties remain it's only going to continue to hurt everyone involved.


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

yeah usually when something like this happens they leave in shame. so his desire to hang around sounds like he is not really accepting the full ramifications of his actions just yet.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Yeah he should leave but there should be a follow so he can't move on to another church. What about the power dynamic with the new pastor. It's just not right. Guys like these are the worst. Had one these in a church when I was young. Sent letters to a young adult in the congregation telling her God had put them together, problem was he was married to the worship leader at the time. Ass.


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## foolscotton3 (Nov 13, 2014)

I understand it takes 2 to tango, but leaders should be held to higher standards. Ideally both couples should move on as they have fractured the church, but it needs to be up to the husband of the ***** that decides if they go or if the ex-pastor leaves.

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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Is that appropriate or even necessary?"

Yes and yes. He failed his congregation.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cast the sinner out!

Who cares what Jesus said about forgiveness?

Let's have a stoning party!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## foolscotton3 (Nov 13, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Cast the sinner out!
> 
> Who cares what Jesus said about forgiveness?
> 
> ...


Tolerance and forgiveness are not one and the same.

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## Bensdad123 (Oct 6, 2012)

Bump "church"...it's a haven for demonically possessed folks! The whole idea of it (churchianity) has become a club, in it of itself. A club full of hypocrites who PLAY church and condemn one another for their sins....God is love, not some hypocrisy to be played with...

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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

foolscotton3 said:


> *I understand it takes 2 to tango, but leaders should be held to higher standards.* Ideally both couples should move on as they have fractured the church, but it needs to be up to the husband of the ***** that decides if they go or if the ex-pastor leaves.


Amen!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Cast the sinner out!
> 
> Who cares what Jesus said about forgiveness?
> 
> ...


Being allowed a graceful exit isn't quite the same as stoning.

And let's just be honest -- pastors that do this crap are rarely one-time offenders.

They're _predators_.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Male preachers counseling female church members behind closed doors... (nothing but a recipe for infidelity). In the small town I live in, I've seen it happen a dozen times over the past 20 years. How many times they are not caught (pants down) who knows. Interesting it has very little to do with denomination or race and more with the age of the preacher. The younger ones (30 to 40) seems to be the norm. 

A former preacher of mine, told me that he would never counsel female members one on one, no exceptions. It was his policy to have his associate present at all times. 

In this particular case... time for all parties to move on. Oh and that 12 years of close ties, do you really believe this was the first incident and he just happen to get caught? How many times have we all heard... "I swear this is the only time I ever been unfaithful". Hardly, just the first time you were caught red-handed more likely.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The acts of a few boneheads taints the congregation and the religion -or- Religion in Toto.

A world without religion would crumble faster bargain concrete.

"Common Men" need guidance and a fear of consequence beyond and above "Common Law"

Most humans are children in big-person clothes.

We live in the 21st century, with thousands of years of history behind us. 

Does it show? Have we advanced, one Iota?

Take away the Golden Rules, which are derived from common sense......Chaos, Anarchy, Hedonism, the destruction of families. No one doing parenting.

It is not the church that is the problem, it is the followers that fall from Grace Kelly.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

And this happened IN the church?

Wow... 

I agree, I would think this is not a first time transgression... especially as a senior pastor.

What would Jesus do? As Christians, I would believe that model would be followed.

But the church may understand the dynamics of harm that has befallen them and may want to be more compassionate for the spouses of the transgressors... would be tough for me to share such mindful time in the same room as my spouse's willing affair partner.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Cast the sinner out!
> 
> Who cares what Jesus said about forgiveness?
> 
> ...





Emerging Buddhist said:


> What would Jesus do? As Christians, I would believe that model would be followed.


Yes, they should be driven out of the church like the money lenders were since, it occurred in the "house of prayer."


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> One of the two couples should leave.


And, it should be the pastor, because he was one who was in the greater position of authority. He was supposed to be the pastor of that church. Him being there will always be a negative distraction and it would likely divide and eventually split the church. Those who resent his presence vs those who support his presence would be at odds. As a child, I grew up in a small General Baptist church and later joined a much larger Southern Baptist Church. I've seen it happen in both. It takes years for the whole church to recover from this type of betrayal.

If the former pastor had any humility, at all, he wouldn't even entertain the idea of staying on, even as just a church member, he would apologize, resign, and leave as quickly and quietly as possible.

I think the OW should leave, as well. I can't imagine how she could focus on her own personal recovery and healing, much less that of her spouse and children (if there are any) when she will inevitably be the target of gossip, whispers, and outright disgust for the foreseeable future. The children of both of these AP's would also become the targets of gossip and vitriol should either of these families remain in the congregation. And, that's not fair to the children.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

EI said:


> And, it should be the pastor, because he was one who was in the greater position of authority. He was supposed to be the pastor of that church. Him being there will always be a negative distraction and it would likely divide and eventually split the church. Those who resent his presence vs those who support his presence would be at odds. As a child, I grew up in a small General Baptist church and later joined a much larger Southern Baptist Church. I've seen it happen in both. It takes years for the whole church to recover from this type of betrayal.
> 
> If the former pastor had any humility, at all, he wouldn't even entertain the idea of staying on, even as just a church member, he would apologize, resign, and leave as quickly and quietly as possible.
> 
> I think the OW should leave, as well. I can't imagine how she could focus on her own personal recovery and healing, much less that of her spouse and children (if there are any) when she will inevitably be the target of gossip, whispers, and outright disgust for the foreseeable future. The children of both of these AP's would also become the targets of gossip and vitriol should either of these families remain in the congregation. And, that's not fair to the children.


I could understand both couples leaving the church, but now the board wants to draft a public letter (with details) condemning his actions and pretty much guaranteeing he will never work in the pulpit again. He's 54, Master's Degree in theology, and has worked as a pastor for 30 years. 

I wonder if we did this with any other professional person that got caught cheating. "I'm sorry Dr. Jones, but you got caught cheating in the hospital with a nurse, so we are stripping your medical license forever." 

I thought a church was a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints. Does that not apply to everyone? Doesn't the devil work harder at high-value targets?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Cast the sinner out!
> 
> Who cares what Jesus said about forgiveness?
> 
> ...


You can forgive him and still insist that he move on. Don't confuse the two. This is no different than forgiving your wayward spouse even though you are divorcing them.

As the head of a leadership board on a church, I have no doubt that the former pastor would not be allowed to stay. In fact, I would make sure of it. I would still love him, and encourage his spiritual growth, but not within the doors of that church.

The more interesting question is why does he want to stay?

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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, he and his family will need to leave. He's a former pastor who has broken the trust of his church. Everyone will heal sooner without his presence to remind them. 

I can't believe they would even ask to stay. This isn't about what they want.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> I could understand both couples leaving the church, but now the board wants to draft a public letter (with details) condemning his actions and pretty much guaranteeing he will never work in the pulpit again. He's 54, Master's Degree in theology, and has worked as a pastor for 30 years.
> 
> I wonder if we did this with any other professional person that got caught cheating. "I'm sorry Dr. Jones, but you got caught cheating in the hospital with a nurse, so we are stripping your medical license forever."
> 
> I thought a church was a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints. Does that not apply to everyone? Doesn't the devil work harder at high-value targets?


Are doctors supposed to be spiritual leaders/counselors/whatever a minister is supposed to be? Not that I'm aware of.

But this is still the wrong analogy, because a nurse is a colleague, not a patient. So it would be more relevant to ask if a doctor should be fired and blacklisted for inappropriate behavior with a patient. I'm pretty sure the answer to that is "yes".


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

tech-novelist said:


> Are doctors supposed to be spiritual leaders/counselors/whatever a minister is supposed to be? Not that I'm aware of.
> 
> But this is still the wrong analogy, because a nurse is a colleague, not a patient. So it would be more relevant to ask if a doctor should be fired and blacklisted for inappropriate behavior with a patient. I'm pretty sure the answer to that is "yes".


The woman in question was not receiving pastoral counseling, she is a Sunday school teacher and very active volunteer in the church. She also resigned from all elected and volunteer positions.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Organized religions are tax-haven bul1shirt businesses.

The phoney baloney "pastor" should gtfo. Shameless bastard has poor simple folk idolizing him. What a piece of work.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> I could understand both couples leaving the church, but now the board wants to draft a public letter (with details) condemning his actions and pretty much guaranteeing he will never work in the pulpit again. He's 54, Master's Degree in theology, and has worked as a pastor for 30 years.
> 
> I wonder if we did this with any other professional person that got caught cheating. "I'm sorry Dr. Jones, but you got caught cheating in the hospital with a nurse, so we are stripping your medical license forever."
> 
> I thought a church was a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints. Does that not apply to everyone? Doesn't the devil work harder at high-value targets?



If I need heart surgery, I want the best cardiac surgeon available. His personal transgressions (unless they are drug or alcohol related) would likely have little to no effect on his capabilities as a surgeon.

But, when a pastor has an affair, particularly with a member of his own congregation, he has failed miserably at his "job." He can be forgiven, but his ability to minister to his flock has been seriously, if not irreversibly damaged. 

James 3:1 "_My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive greater condemnation."_

I'm a FWS. I was forgiven by my husband and our children, and my husband and I have reconciled. So, you can believe that I am grateful for forgiveness. Moving forward, I can be a good wife, and a good mother, and I can continue to grow in my walk as a Christian. But, there is a part of my testimony, if I'm to be honest with everyone around me, that will always be compromised. Consistent, positive actions, on my part, moving forward, might possibly reduce the magnitude of the damage caused by my previous actions, but what's done can never be undone.

In the case of a church pastor having an affair with a congregant, I just don't see the likelihood of him ever again being viewed as an effective minister/leader/counselor/teacher to his flock, or any other flock.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

The former pastor needs to be pastored, but should not be allowed to lead or teach anyone, or hold any position. To send him out to lead another unsuspecting church is not fair to the other church.

It is too bad that he and the OW blew up their lives, and the lives of their families. They have also hurt the parishioners who trusted in them.

Keeping him and the OW at the church, with all eyes watching them will help keep them accountable. People don't kick family members out when they mess up. Church is supposed to be like family.

ETA: It is up to their spouses to decide if they should attend the same church where the affair occurred and where their former AP attends. I feel so badly for their BS. If I were in their shoes, being part of a church body for 12 years, and then having to leave all my church family due to an egregious affair between my spouse and another church member, I would be devastated on more than one level: the loss of trust and sacredness in my marriage and the lost of my church family. Add to that the shame of a ruined reputation, since covenantal marriages make a husband and wife one flesh. The BS will feel that their own reputation has been ruined due to their spouse's actions.


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## Delaney (May 21, 2014)

Yes, he should leave or at least step down from ministry. He needs to take time out and not think of ministering to anyone. He and his wife have enough to deal with.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

There just something about carrying on this activity in church that leaves a bad taste in my mouth; notwithstanding the temerity of these two to want to keep their carcasses stinking it up for the rest of the congregation. At least they should have had enough sense to lock the door. Ain't no telling how many times they got it on before surprising the janitor but they probably grew too comfortable over several weeks or months and forgot to lock it.
MAJDEATH said she was a very active volunteer in the church. Looks like it to me.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> At least they should have had enough sense to lock the door.


There should have been enough witness in their faith to have not many things period, the door was meant to be opened, spiritual cause and effect.

Sadly, this lack of good judgement (lust) will render any future good ineffective he could have done, some things are not irreversible... you must lead from the front and he cannot do so anymore where his mind is at.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Cast the sinner out!
> 
> Who cares what Jesus said about forgiveness?
> 
> ...


What does forgiveness have to do with this? 

With a position of authority comes responsibility. People were counting on him to be a leader. People trusted their spouses and children around him. 

You can love a person and "forgive" their sins and still understand that it would be inappropriate for him to remain in that church where his presence is a reminder to all of the pain his actions caused.

I also wonder why he would want to remain in that church, and why he would be willing to subject his wife to the humiliation of going to church where everyone knows her husband was screwing around with another married woman?

Actions have consequences, either the church stands for the values it preaches or it doesn't.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Your doctor analogy doesn't work. Your pastor had the one job where an affair and infidelity is actually addressed in his job description, both new and old testament.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Your doctor *anthology* doesn't work. Your pastor had the one job where an affair and infidelity is actually addressed in his job description, both new and old testament.


Apparently auto-completion is your worst enema also. >


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

No consequence?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

tech-novelist said:


> Apparently auto-completion is your worst enema also. >


:rofl:

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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WorkingWife said:


> *What does forgiveness have to do with this?
> *
> With a position of authority comes responsibility. People were counting on him to be a leader. People trusted their spouses and children around him.
> 
> ...


Apparently there are several quotes in the New Testament about forgiveness. All from Jesus.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Christians, and even Pastors aren't perfect....however everyone must or should pay the consequences for their actions.

I agree with your church writing a letter explaining the circumstances of why the former Pastor lost his position as Pastor. Paul wrote letters and named the offenders. God had Moses write about Noah's son Ham, Abraham and Hagar, Ruben and Bilhah etc. God had the scribes write about King David and Bathsheba, Amnon raping Tamar, and all sorts of other wicked things that various people of God did, and all the world gets to read about their sin and learn from it. Rahab, the ancestor of Jesus is called a "harlot" every time her name is mentioned in the New Testament. She quit being a harlot, but mentioning her past shows God's mercy and love, that God would even work through a prior harlot to bless the world.

Today's Christians seem to believe they are above the OT fathers, and that their sins should never be mentioned again once they have repented. This reveals their fear and weakness. When things are swept under the rug, or kept secret, people lose the opportunity of learning the truth and the lessons that go with the truth.

This pastor could have a ministry to former waywards someday if he is not allowed to creep away into the shadows.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Apparently there are several quotes in the New Testament about forgiveness. All from Jesus.


Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same things. You can forgive someone while still carrying out appropriate consequences and by expelling them from fellowship.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Apparently there are several quotes in the New Testament about forgiveness. All from Jesus.


Yes. So, how many scriptures do you want which actually back up the church's decision? Even the letter I do not like?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *MAJDEATH*
> I could understand both couples leaving the church, but now the board wants to draft a public letter (with details) condemning his actions and pretty much guaranteeing he will never work in the pulpit again. He's 54, Master's Degree in theology, and has worked as a pastor for 30 years.
> 
> I wonder if we did this with any other professional person that got caught cheating. "I'm sorry Dr. Jones, but you got caught cheating in the hospital with a nurse, so we are stripping your medical license forever."
> ...


?


The church can be a supplement to help all of us sinners (hospital for sinners) but* it also should follow the scriptures of God*. With true repentance the pastor will be forgiven of his sin by God and be brought back into a closer relationship with God. However, the scriptures do give guidance on this type situation and there are consequences even though the sinner has been forgiven.

The consequences can be read in 2nd Samuel Chapter 12, regarding the case of King David, “A man after God’s own heart”. David’s sin, including adultery, received his consequences for life even though God forgave him. Those consequences included his own children rising up against David, his wife will sleep with another man, and David’s son that was conceived in adultery will die in infancy.

As for the church and David; he was not allowed to build the church because he shed blood.

I realize that the pastor’s betrayal with the sunday school woman is not worthy of such harsh consequences but *the scriptures prove that you have to pay some consequences here on this earth for betrayal and sin.* This pastor’s requirements include him being blameless, worthy of double honor, and of good behavior. The scriptures are very clear what is expected of a pastor, elder, or bishop in the scriptures reprinted below:

Titus 1:7 - For a bishop must be *blameless*, as the steward of God; *not self-willed*, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

1 Timothy 5:17 - Let the elders that rule well be counted *worthy of double honour*, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Timothy 3:2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, *of good behaviour*, given to hospitality, apt to teach

No one is saying that the pastor has committed the unpardonable sin but he should be forgiven, encouraged to recover, and accepted by the Christian community but not allowed to be a Pastor, Elder, or Bishop. He can serve the Christian community in other areas. He should leave the church where he betrayed the trust of the congregation and violated the BS and his own wife. *The church and the BS take precedence over the pastor’s consideration in allowing him to remain in that particular church.
*
The pastor can rebuild, serve his faith in some capacity, and have a good life but he cannot escape some consequences of his actions.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

I know everybody is a hypocrite but this does take it to another level


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I could understand both couples leaving the church, but now the board wants to draft a public letter (with details) condemning his actions and pretty much guaranteeing he will never work in the pulpit again. He's 54, Master's Degree in theology, and has worked as a pastor for 30 years.
> 
> I wonder if we did this with any other professional person that got caught cheating. "I'm sorry Dr. Jones, but you got caught cheating in the hospital with a nurse, so we are stripping your medical license forever."
> 
> *I thought a church was a hospital for sinners,* not a hotel for saints. Does that not apply to everyone? Doesn't the devil work harder at high-value targets?


this would be like a doctor not doing his job on purpose and yes if caught would lose their license.

infidelity is one of the (actually maybe 2) ten commandments and as someone else said infidelity is addressed in both the new and old testaments.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Cast the sinner out!
> 
> Who cares what Jesus said about forgiveness?
> 
> ...


No one is casting them out of the church just the local congregation. No one is saying they are not Christians. There is actually quite a bit about what to do when this happens in the New Testament.

Remember the story of Jesus whipping the sellers in the temple? Driving them out? I suspect this would be closer to his reaction. He was always toughest on the religious leaders. Also don't forget the story of Ananias and Sapphira? They lied to the church, God struck them dead.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

"He who is without sin, cast the first stone."


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> "He who is without sin, cast the first stone."


"Go, and sin no more."

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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> "He who is without sin, cast the first stone."


Doesn't apply.

Also overused.

And super lame.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

He should step down, from his position, but shouldn't be forced to leave the congregation. It's the righteous thing to do on his part. We're all sinners, but there are consequences for our sin on earth, and he shouldn't be in charge of preaching the Gospel to ''his flock,'' if he can't follow it, himself. But, he shouldn't leave the church he's in, or be forced to...but, he shouldn't be leading it, anymore.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> "He who is without sin, cast the first stone."


That referred to killing, not to judgement as to whether they should remain in fellowship.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Apparently there are several quotes in the New Testament about forgiveness. All from Jesus.


I still don't understand your point.

What does forgiving someone have to do with allowing them to remain in the congregation?

I forgive my ex husband for cheating on me. That doesn't mean I would let him remain in my home.

I forgive a friend who blabbed personal information I confided to her in private. That doesn't mean she's the one I still go to when I need to talk about something private.

I forgive a person who said and did hurtful things to a family member of mine. That doesn't mean I invite that person to family events like weddings and graduations.

A company could forgive a person for embezzling from them. Doesn't mean they continue to employ that person to do their bookkeeping.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I seriously don't get the connection you're trying to make between whether or not the cheaters are "forgiven" by the rest of the church and whether or not the church should allow them to remain in that congregation. Especially considering the pain and disillusionment their actions may have caused others in that congregation.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

He shouldn't be kicked out of the church. Jesus doesn't push His followers away. We don't know what this man's relationship with God is right now, he may have prayed, asked for forgiveness, and repented. He shouldn't be permitted to lead the church, but to kick him out? What does this say about Christians? Like he's the only one with sin in that congregation? lol Right.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> He shouldn't be kicked out of the church. Jesus doesn't push His followers away. We don't know what this man's relationship with God is right now, he may have prayed, asked for forgiveness, and repented. He shouldn't be permitted to lead the church, but to kick him out? What does this say about Christians? Like he's the only one with sin in that congregation? lol Right.


I am not Christian today, though I was raised fire and brimstone Southern Baptist, but to follow the teachings of Jesus means one is not cast aside.

To lead, that would be another challenge altogether.

It would be tough, but if one was repentant and accepted he was a fallen man with humility, and the body forgave and welcomed him back, then perhaps his dharma door would open for a better path. 

To make such a decision himself is signature of a proud man, and one not humble enough in his transgression befitting of his prior position.

In the end, it would be up to the body to decide, not self.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By MDJDEATH
> "He who is without sin, cast the first stone."


No one is casting a stone to kill the pastor but the scriptures say to not associate with a brother that is sexually immoral. *How can you NOT associate with the pastor if he is in your congregation? *

Either you go by scriptures or you refuse to accept its authority; your choice.

See repeat of DellaStreet’s post below.

*1 Corinthians 5:9-11*
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must *not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral *or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people

The pastor attending the same church and in association with the BS and his family is not considering the BS and his family or scripture. The pastor can go to another church and can receive their encouragement and support and he can serve in another capacity rather than pastor. The pastor can rebuild his life and have a good life but scripture is the moral authority for most Christians.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> He shouldn't be kicked out of the church. Jesus doesn't push His followers away. We don't know what this man's relationship with God is right now, he may have prayed, asked for forgiveness, and repented. He shouldn't be permitted to lead the church, but to kick him out? What does this say about Christians? Like he's the only one with sin in that congregation? lol Right.


You are right about Jesus, but this is not a proper comparison. Jesus was a leader of his congregation; he wasn't a follower. Jesus' and God's word states different rules for leaders. Unfair? No, because it is right there for anyone person who wants too lead to read. He has a Masters Degree in Theology, he knew the rules better than many posting on this very thread. 

As Blunt has shown, repeatedly, the rules are specific and right there for leaders. If we take it further, Jesus was the perfect non-sinning leader, depending on what you believe, he as well as God expect the same from the leaders of their respective congregations.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> He shouldn't be kicked out of the church. Jesus doesn't push His followers away. We don't know what this man's relationship with God is right now, he may have prayed, asked for forgiveness, and repented. He shouldn't be permitted to lead the church, but to kick him out? What does this say about Christians? Like he's the only one with sin in that congregation? lol Right.



He can still be in the body of the church, just not in that congregation. There is too much baggage, he will be a detraction.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mr Blunt said:


> No one is casting a stone to kill the pastor but the scriptures say to not associate with a brother that is sexually immoral. *How can you NOT associate with the pastor if he is in your congregation? *
> 
> Either you go by scriptures or you refuse to accept its authority; your choice.
> 
> ...


Yep pretty black and white there, either you follow the scriptures or you don't.


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## foolscotton3 (Nov 13, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> He shouldn't be kicked out of the church. Jesus doesn't push His followers away. We don't know what this man's relationship with God is right now, he may have prayed, asked for forgiveness, and repented. He shouldn't be permitted to lead the church, but to kick him out? What does this say about Christians? Like he's the only one with sin in that congregation? lol Right.


Jesus most certainly did push his followers away, by the thousands.

It wouldn't hurt Christians to actually read the Bible once in awhile.

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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

I think there would be to much distraction for the new pastor to overcome. There would be a group of people that would still look to the old pastor for advice. Better the old pastor find another church to go to. Otherwise, the betrayed husband will probably have to take his family elsewhere.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> I think there would be to much distraction for the new pastor to overcome. There would be a group of people that would still look to the old pastor for advice. Better the old pastor find another church to go to. Otherwise, the betrayed husband will probably have to take his family elsewhere.


I'm inclined to agree, here. My gut reaction would be to let the couples decide if one or both families ought to transfer membership. Unfortunately, I have seen, under different circumstances, how a new pastor had had to deal with a retired pastor in the same church. We had a pastor, when I was a teen, who seemed to enjoy pushing buttons. When he retired, we assumed he and his wife were going to move to the property they owned outside the area... That did not happen. Instead, he stuck around and needled different members. Now, I got along with both pastors, as well as the members he was upsetting. It did nearly tear the church apart. 

My husband and I did not wait to have sex before we got married, and I got pregnant (miscarried 12 weeks later). We were both already baptized members of the church and we were presented with the option of withdrawing our names from the book or face disfellowshipping. We opted for the former, which is, essentially, what I'd going on with OP pastor/parishioner scenario. While our names were removed, we were still able to attend the church. Eventually, we were rebaptized into the same denomination, but in a different town. We were open with the pastor and elders there, and we have even mended fences with those who were leaders when we withdrew our membership.

So what is my point? I can see both sides of this. I can see pros and cons to them all staying and going. I think the incoming pastor should counsel them all and proceed from there. But, if my husband and I were in that position now? We would attend elsewhere. I would rather not be a hindrance to the spiritual walk of another, by being a constant reminder of my actions. 

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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

Was/Is the AP married, MAJ?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You are right about Jesus, but this is not a proper comparison. Jesus was a leader of his congregation; he wasn't a follower. Jesus' and God's word states different rules for leaders. Unfair? No, because it is right there for anyone person who wants too lead to read. He has a Masters Degree in Theology, he knew the rules better than many posting on this very thread.
> 
> As Blunt has shown, repeatedly, the rules are specific and right there for leaders. If we take it further, Jesus was the perfect non-sinning leader, depending on what you believe, he as well as God expect the same from the leaders of their respective congregations.


He shouldn't be leading the church. Sounds like we agree, not sure why you posted this. But, ok. I'm aware of my faith teachings.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

foolscotton3 said:


> Jesus most certainly did push his followers away, by the thousands.
> 
> It wouldn't hurt Christians to actually read the Bible once in awhile.
> 
> Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


I left Christianity for a few years, and Jesus never gave up on me. I didn't come back to the faith, Jesus came after me. Yes, it would be good for Christians to read it. Jesus never pushed anyone away, people willingly depart from Him, there's a difference.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

EunuchMonk said:


> Was/Is the AP married, MAJ?


Yes, she is married. In fact, he was the same pastor who married them, in our church, about 10 years ago.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Yes, *she is married. In fact, he was the same pastor who married them, in our church*, about 10 years ago.


wow the hypocrisy just get better


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## Thomas Quinn (Jun 18, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> Yes, she is married. In fact, he was the same pastor who married them, in our church, about 10 years ago.


He has to go!


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## foolscotton3 (Nov 13, 2014)

Beware of wolves in wool.

Of course the pastor doesn't want to go, he is in love with her.

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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

MAJDEATH said:


> Yes, she is married. In fact, he was the same pastor who married them, in our church, about 10 years ago.


Well, isn't this SPECIAL


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

How the girls husband can sit there through church with everybody knowing his wife was diddling with the preacher is beyond me.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Tell him they can stay at the church as long as he sows a scarlet "A" on all of his clothing. That, or wears a really big hat with the words "Cheating Bastard" embroidered on it in a very bright and easy to read font.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

this is a tough one, and i don't think 'cut and dry'.

on the one hand, i believe churches should be open to ANYBODY.

that doesn't mean we look the other way without discernment. there are rules to follow and guidelines to adhere to be a full fledged member.

there are verses of the bible that imply complete forgiveness with repentance (the prodigal son), but there are also verses that speak of not associating with
unrepentant sinners who can cause the weak to stumble.

without a thorough study on this, i would say my gut judgement would be that the church should not cast him out.
on the other hand, maybe the pastor himself should voluntarily leave for the good of all and start anew.


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

As a deacon myself, I would say that our leaders would have to make some heavy-hearted decisions. I honestly don't know exactly what we would do in this case. I'm pretty sure the pastor would no longer be on the payroll, and I think he would be strongly encouraged, if not forced to move on. The married lady would likely receive the same encouragement to move on. Like I said, it's just a theoretical decision on my part.

I do know that in the by-laws of our church's charter that both would have to address the membership saying what they did and make a public apology in order to remain members.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Personally, I think the Pastor and his AP should be forced to read a little Nathaniel Hawthorne.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

I find it difficult to imagine that either of the aldulterers would have much of a ministry if they remained in the church. She, as a worker and Sunday school teacher would be suspect in her validity and he, as pastor, would lose all credibility. Also, I believe that the one with the most responsibility should be the one to graciously leave. As a "Shepard" I cannot imagine his thought process wanting to remain. How does one look into the face of the man, whose marriage he officiated, and not feel overwhelming angst?

To imagine that either the H or his W would ever want to look upon me again would be brazen beyond that which I am capable of. It is one thing to forgive but yet another to act as if nothing happened. His desire to even consider staying speaks to me that he has perhaps wrestled secretly with this demon before, how else could he not be more considerate of the couples feelings and his W's. Fascinating.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I could understand both couples leaving the church, but now the board wants to draft a public letter (with details) condemning his actions and pretty much guaranteeing he will never work in the pulpit again. He's 54, Master's Degree in theology, and has worked as a pastor for 30 years.
> 
> I wonder if we did this with any other professional person that got caught cheating. "I'm sorry Dr. Jones, but you got caught cheating in the hospital with a nurse, so we are stripping your medical license forever."
> 
> I thought a church was a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints. Does that not apply to everyone? Doesn't the devil work harder at high-value targets?


Warning ... anti-organized religion post. Quit reading if you're offended by such positions.

The above is "one" of the reasons I have little ... correction "NO" ... respect for organized religion. Situational ethics and HYPOCRISY.

Some of the absolute WORST people I know IRL attend church every time the doors are open, and NO ONE in the church calls them out on their UN-Christian behaviors. As a matter of fact, as long as they tithe the appropriate amount, they will be made deacons, leaders, etc. and held in high esteem ... and you're trying to white wash this with the same brush.

It is hard to fathom ... without the pretzel logic of religion ... that anyone on a CWI forum would be taking up for this 30+ year "man of god" (small case intentionally) that actually performed the M ceremony of his OW. Are there truly no boundaries that you would defend?

Also, I can't understand any BH that was willing to attempt R, would willingly attend a church where everyone knew his WW and the OM. It is just amazing how whipped some BH's are in today's society.

Anyway, this post brought this quote to mind:

*"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi*


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

MyRevelation said:


> Warning ... anti-organized religion post. Quit reading if you're offended by such positions.
> 
> The above is "one" of the reasons I have little ... correction "NO" ... respect for organized religion. Situational ethics and HYPOCRISY.
> 
> ...



The Mahatma Gandhi quote above is a quote that I, even as a Christian, have used many times. Unfortunately, many of the "Christians" I am acquainted with, are the least kind, of all mankind, and that's very disheartening.

I'm a FWS, and a Christian, but I completely agree with the sentiment of your comments, particularly the bolded part. This was a monumental betrayal. This man betrayed his wife, he betrayed the husband of his AP, even after officiating at their marriage, he betrayed his parishioners, he betrayed God, and the most innocent victims of all, he betrayed the children of both of these marriages. The fact that this _minister_ has even stated a desire to remain a member of this church, shows absolutely no regard for the heartache he has forced upon of all of those whom he has betrayed in such a vile and disgusting manner. He is either the biggest Narcissist on the planet, or he's mentally incompetent. I'm betting on the former, and if I were a betting person, I'd say that he mostly likely has an entire harem of church members/AP's who he is not eager to leave behind. That's only speculation on my part, though. 

Being a FWS, I am typically more empathetic towards most WS's than many of the TAMers will ever be. I'm always willing to hear their story with an open mind and a compassionate heart. But, my empathy and compassion for this pastor would stop the moment he tried to plead his case for remaining a member this congregation.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> He shouldn't be leading the church. Sounds like we agree, not sure why you posted this. But, ok. I'm aware of my faith teachings.


 You said, twice I might add, he shouldn't be kicked out because we all sin. I disagreed. I even referenced Blunts post where the rules are clearly stated a leader must go.
So, no, we do not agree.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Oh and for those who are religious, Mr. Blunt didn't finish. Keep reading Timothy, you'll find the Bible actually advocates public exposure. So, yes, the letter that bothers some people, like MAJ, it's what the Bible actually states.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

He shouldn't be kicked out of being able to worship in the church. He shouldn't lead, however, he should step down as Pastor. Everyone knows of this man's sin, that's the only difference between him and others attending church there. Everyone in that church is a sinner, his sins have just been brought to light, out in the open. Since everyone sins, maybe everyone should be kicked out? 

I get the severity of it, but Jesus came to save us all, to help the sick and those lost in sin. This man needs prayers, and help. Shouldn't be in a leadership role, but shouldn't be shunned.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

I can't believe any of the offending parties want to remain in this church? Do they have any shame for doing what they did? You would figure the humiliation for all involved would lead all four off to another church.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

"No one is saying that the pastor has committed the unpardonable sin but he should be forgiven, encouraged to recover, and accepted by the Christian community but not allowed to be a Pastor, Elder, or Bishop." MR. BLUNT

MR BLUNTS' bible quotations speak to the higher standards which church leaders must be held to and rightly so.

but they do not speak to kicking him out of the church necessarily. i don't think anyone (or few?) here are saying he should remain seated as pastor or elder.

the more complex issue i think is whether he should be formally shunned from the community as an individual.

regardless, for him, above all he needs to come to utter repentance, empty himself in humility and brokenness and do what is best for the community, not himself.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Anyway you look at it, the BH and the preacher's wife will be the laughing stock of the church and the foil of more than a few jokes.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Why would a pastor who did what he did even WANT to stay?

My guess is that he has another woman (or other women) that he is 'counseling' behind closed doors and he/they want him to stick around for more 'counseling'.

This is the same situation as someone cheating with a coworker - and what do we ALWAYS say must happen in those situations?

I also am wondering how the 'families' can forgive each other. What did the families do??


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

As for whether he should be banished from being a minister ever again- maybe not, but at the very least, any congregation considering him should be well aware of what he did.

The doctor analogy is only valid if the doctor purposely performed unnecessary brain surgery on someone who sustained brain damage because of it. A pastor cheating is tantamount to a doctor performing grossly negligent malpractice.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> He shouldn't be kicked out of being able to worship in the church. He shouldn't lead, however, he should step down as Pastor. Everyone knows of this man's sin, that's the only difference between him and others attending church there. Everyone in that church is a sinner, his sins have just been brought to light, out in the open. Since everyone sins, maybe everyone should be kicked out?
> 
> I get the severity of it, but Jesus came to save us all, to help the sick and those lost in sin. This man needs prayers, and help. Shouldn't be in a leadership role, but shouldn't be shunned.


God and Jesus spoke the very rules you want to ignore. They wouldn't be writing the letter if they were sure everyone knew. The bible and the trinity makes a church leader more responsible than a regular parishioner. This is why people dislike and shun organized religion. It's why people claim the Bible is hypocritical and contradictory. If you really study the Bible, not just listen topically to your "leader," you learn people cherry pick what makes them feel good and this is what makes the Bible appear contradictory and hypocritical.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> God and Jesus spoke the very rules you want to ignore. They wouldn't be writing the letter if they were sure everyone knew. The bible and the trinity makes a church leader more responsible than a regular parishioner. This is why people dislike and shun organized religion. It's why people claim the Bible is hypocritical and contradictory. If you really study the Bible, not just listen topically to your "leader," you learn people cherry pick what makes them feel good and this is what makes the Bible appear contradictory and hypocritical.


Well, Jesus said the two most important commandments are to love God with all of our might, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. 

The rest is human spin. It's a very human problem to cast stones against people whose sin you don't personally struggle with, so they are of course far worse sinners than you could ever be, eh? 

Having said that, I'd say that the church leader in question here, should have enough sense to leave the congregation, as to not cause a bad situation to get worse. He can find another church, certainly, but I can't see shunning him, personally. My hope is he repents, and looks to rebuild his life in Christ.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

SladkaKisa111 said:


> Hey guys. Sign up and add friends to please.
> Join Us! here brutal sex


And add a virus to your computer.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> The rest is human spin.


Huh? You are calling Paul's letters to the church human spin? If you really believe that why would you bother being in the church? That just makes no sense.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Pastors are notorious for engaging in infidelity - especially the evangelical/baptist ones who run the more conservative churches. Because in these churches, virtually all the pastors set themselves up as little gods, and it's only a matter of time before they act out in narcissistic ways. What better way to act out than to be the authority figure of a church who can prey on women who are told to be subservient to their husbands as good Christian women should be. Sorry to be an ass about it, but I loathe the evangelical/baptist churches because my typical experience are they cannot be trusted, or are more interested in increasing the church coffers than they are saving souls.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> *He shouldn't be kicked out of being able to worship in the church*. He shouldn't lead, however, he should step down as Pastor. Everyone knows of this man's sin, that's the only difference between him and others attending church there. Everyone in that church is a sinner, his sins have just been brought to light, out in the open. Since everyone sins, maybe everyone should be kicked out?
> 
> I get the severity of it, but Jesus came to save us all, to help the sick and those lost in sin. This man needs prayers, and help. Shouldn't be in a leadership role, but shouldn't be shunned.


Excommunication is alive and well in evangelical/baptist churches. While the RCC gets a bad rap if they ever do something like that, the reality is that it's a useful tool in these denominations. Not judging it good or bad, because technically it's like a private club that has rules and regulations for membership. For example tithing. In the newer nondenominational churches, if you don't pay, you don't play. That doesn't happen in your mainline protestant churches and the RCC.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

foolscotton3 said:


> Beware of wolves in wool.
> 
> Of course the pastor doesn't want to go, he is in love with her.
> 
> Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk





Hope1964 said:


> Why would a pastor who did what he did even WANT to stay?
> 
> My guess is that he has another woman (or other women) that he is 'counseling' behind closed doors and he/they want him to stick around for more 'counseling'.
> 
> ...



That's what I'm suspecting. He doesn't want to go because he still has sway over some of the congregants' wives. Best stay there to get laid again.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Church discipline is intended for restoration of a fallen brother/sister.

The speed of that restoration is critical... too fast is incredibly dangerous to ALL involved.

We would be replete with sin if we just kicked them out for kicking out sake and consequences only. 

It is to be FOR them, not against them while protecting the congregation at the same time.

It needs to be strategic, intentional and delicately handled so that no one is left behind.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Huh? You are calling Paul's letters to the church human spin? If you really believe that why would you bother being in the church? That just makes no sense.


Please don't presume to know me, because you don't. You don't know anything about me, or my faith walk. Please stop (mis)judging. 

This whole thread reminds me of this...

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? (Matthew 7:3)


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Excommunication is alive and well in evangelical/baptist churches. While the RCC gets a bad rap if they ever do something like that, the reality is that it's a useful tool in these denominations. Not judging it good or bad, because technically it's like a private club that has rules and regulations for membership. For example tithing. In the newer nondenominational churches, if you don't pay, you don't play. That doesn't happen in your mainline protestant churches and the RCC.


Exactly, that's what I mean by 'human spin.' When people are moving Jesus over to judge others in His place, and condemning people, shunning them from their churches. Obviously if someone is dangerous to a congregation, he/she should not be permitted. Safety comes first. 

It would be the appropriate thing to do for the guy to leave the church though, to not cause problems. But, no one should 'kick' him out, or make him feel unwelcome. Just my thoughts to it all.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> Please don't presume to know me, because you don't. You don't know anything about me, or my faith walk. Please stop (mis)judging.
> 
> This whole thread reminds me of this...
> 
> "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? (Matthew 7:3)


I am not judging you, I am asking you a question. Did you see the scriptures that said to kick the guy out of the church? Your quote is that this is human spin. I am asking how do you reconcile the scripture with that.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Both the preacher and his squeeze have the "right" to attend the church of their choice. If either one of these two love birds gave a rats azz about the church or the stooges that are staying married to them, they'd do everybody a favor and leave the church. 
Who'd want to come in week after week and see these two acting humble and Godly and their humiliated spouses squirming in the pew and the laughing stock of the congregation. 
Give me a break.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

As of last Sunday, neither guilty party was present for services in the church.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I feel so bad for these pastor's wives who stay with their cheating husband. I'm sure some divorce but most stay by their side and forgive them. 

I admit I love church scandals. Nothing like seeing people preach one thing but do another.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

In researching church discipline yesterday I came across an article about the devastation to the wives and kids of pastors who do this and some churches are taking church discipline in a VERY long term view in order to support them completely and not let them fall through the cracks.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

GuyInColorado said:


> I feel so bad for these pastor's wives who stay with their cheating husband. I'm sure some divorce but most stay by their side and forgive them.


My son's stepmom was previously married to a minister. They were asked to leave their first congregation and had to move half-way across the state when he was caught cheating with the church's music director - who was also her best friend. A bit later, he was again caught in an affair with the choir director at their new church - also her new best friend. They moved again. _He _eventually left _her_ when his OW at their third church wound up pregnant with his child. 

I feel bad for a pastor's wife who stays with him after he gets caught cheating with a parishioner. But it's harder to feel all that sorry for her after the second or third time. At a certain point, she's no longer a victim but a volunteer who is enabling the situation to continue. The guy clearly had a penchant for sleeping with her friends and/or women in his congregation. And she just kept forgiving him and uprooting her entire life to follow him to his next congregation, like a good little wife.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> I could understand both couples leaving the church, but now the board wants to draft a public letter (with details) condemning his actions and pretty much guaranteeing he will never work in the pulpit again. He's 54, Master's Degree in theology, and has worked as a pastor for 30 years.
> 
> I wonder if we did this with any other professional person that got caught cheating. "I'm sorry Dr. Jones, but you got caught cheating in the hospital with a nurse, so we are stripping your medical license forever."
> 
> I thought a church was a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints. Does that not apply to everyone? Doesn't the devil work harder at high-value targets?





Rowan said:


> My son's stepmom was previously married to a minister. They were asked to leave their first congregation and had to move half-way across the state when he was caught cheating with the church's music director - who was also her best friend. A bit later, he was again caught in an affair with the choir director at their new church - also her new best friend. They moved again. _He _eventually left _her_ when his OW at their third church wound up pregnant with his child.


After the second post, the "public letter" discussed (and condemned) in the first post makes sense. Caveat emptor.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Rowan said:


> My son's stepmom was previously married to a minister. They were asked to leave their first congregation and had to move half-way across the state when he was caught cheating with the church's music director - who was also her best friend. A bit later, he was again caught in an affair with the choir director at their new church - also her new best friend. They moved again. _He _eventually left _her_ when his OW at their third church wound up pregnant with his child.
> 
> I feel bad for a pastor's wife who stays with him after he gets caught cheating with a parishioner. But it's harder to feel all that sorry for her after the second or third time. At a certain point, she's no longer a victim but a volunteer who is enabling the situation to continue. The guy clearly had a penchant for sleeping with her friends and/or women in his congregation. And she just kept forgiving him and uprooting her entire life to follow him to his next congregation, like a good little wife.


She is failing him by staying.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Blossom Leigh said:


> She is failing him by staying.


Well, she was. But, as I said, he eventually left her for his pregnant OW. 

Now she's married to my serial-cheating ex-husband. When they first got serious, I quietly made sure she was informed (in as kind a manner as possible) by a third party that he was a confirmed multiple-offender. She admitted she already knew. And she married him anyway. I'm guessing there's some emotional payoff for her in that type of relationship dynamic.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Rowan said:


> Well, she was. But, as I said, he eventually left her for his pregnant OW.
> 
> Now she's married to my serial-cheating ex-husband. When they first got serious, I quietly made sure she was informed (in as kind a manner as possible) by a third party that he was a confirmed multiple-offender. She admitted she already knew. And she married him anyway. I'm guessing there's some emotional payoff for her in that type of relationship dynamic.


Then I question her faith and agree with you. There is a payoff and it is not God honoring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Rowan said:


> My son's stepmom was previously married to a minister. They were asked to leave their first congregation and had to move half-way across the state when he was caught cheating with the church's music director - who was also her best friend. A bit later, he was again caught in an affair with the choir director at their new church - also her new best friend. They moved again. _He _eventually left _her_ when his OW at their third church wound up pregnant with his child.
> 
> I feel bad for a pastor's wife who stays with him after he gets caught cheating with a parishioner. But it's harder to feel all that sorry for her after the second or third time. At a certain point, she's no longer a victim but a volunteer who is enabling the situation to continue. The guy clearly had a penchant for sleeping with her friends and/or women in his congregation. And she just kept forgiving him and uprooting her entire life to follow him to his next congregation, like a good little wife.


There really should be some communication between churches before putting someone in a leadership role. I say this because our former music director had an affair with one of the men in the choir. It turns out this was third church she had done this at. The couple did reconcile. She was fired and kicked out of the church, pretty sure wherever she is she has her eyes on someone else's husband.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

That makes me sick. You are 100% right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I've perused the internet for church teaching on whether this guy should be kicked out the the church.

Really, it comes down to whether he is repentant or not. I find nowhere in scripture that someone should be kicked out without a chance (several chances) of repentance.
so that what it really comes down to for this guy. Is he repentant or not???

below is a good summation form 'grace to you' church


The Process of Discipline

In Matthew 18:15-17, Jesus sets forth the four step process of church discipline: (1) tell him his sin alone; (2) take some witnesses; (3) tell the church; and (4) treat him as an outsider.

Step One (Matt. 18:15). The process of church discipline begins on an individual level. Jesus said, “And if your brother sins, go and reprove him in private” (v. 15a). Here, an individual believer is to go to a sinning brother privately and confront him in a spirit of humility and gentleness. This confrontation involves clearly exposing his sin so that he is aware of it and calling him to repentance. If the sinning brother repents in response to the private confrontation, that brother is forgiven and restored (v. 15b).

Step Two (Matt. 18:16). If the sinning brother refuses to listen to the one who has rebuked him privately, the next step in the discipline process is to take one or two more believers along to confront him again (v. 16a). The purpose of taking other believers is so that “by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed” (v. 16b). In other words, the witnesses are present not only to confirm that the sin was committed but, in addition, to confirm that the sinning brother was properly rebuked and that he has or has not repented.

The purpose of church discipline is
the spiritual restoration of fallen
members and the consequent
strengthening of the church and
glorifying of the Lord.

The presence of additional witnesses is as much a protection for the one being approached as it is for the one approaching. After all, a biased person could erroneously say, “Well, I tried to confront him, but he’s impenitent.” It would be presumptuous to think that one person could make that ultimate determination, especially if he was the one who had been sinned against. The witnesses need to confirm whether there is a heart of repentance or one of indifference or rejection. Such a report provides the basis for further action because the situation has been verified beyond the report of one individual.

At this point, it should be hoped that the one or two who are brought along to confront the sinner will not have to become public witnesses against him before the rest of the church. Ideally, their added rebuke will be sufficient to induce a change of heart in the offending brother that the initial rebuke did not cause. If this change of heart does occur, that brother is forgiven and restored, and the matter is dropped.

Step Three (Matt. 18:17a). If the sinning brother refuses to listen and respond to the confrontation of the witnesses after a period of time, those witnesses are then to tell it to the church (v. 17a). This is most appropriately done by bringing the matter to the attention of the elders, who in turn oversee its communication to the assembly as a whole.

How long should the witnesses continue to call the person to repentance before telling the church? The elders at Grace Community Church avoid carrying out the third or fourth stage of church discipline until they are absolutely certain that the erring believer has truly sinned, or is continuing to sin, and that he has refused to repent when appropriately confronted. The elders will routinely send a letter by registered mail warning the individual that the third (or fourth) step of discipline will be taken if they have not received word of repentance by a specific date. When this date has passed, the person’s sin and refusal to repent are made known publicly, either before the entire assembly during a Communion service or through a fellowship group in which the person is known.

It has been the custom at Grace Community Church, upon enacting this third step, to clearly indicate to the congregation that they are to pursue the person aggressively and plead with him to repent before the fourth step becomes necessary. That crucial and potent procedure often draws the sinner to repentance and obedience. If repentance does take place, the sinning believer is forgiven and restored.

Step Four (Matt. 18:17b). The fourth and final step in the process of church discipline is ostracism. If a sinning believer refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be ostracized from the fellowship. Jesus said, “let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer” (v. 17b). The term “Gentile” was primarily used of non-Jews who held to their traditional paganism and had no part in the covenant, worship, or social life of the Jews. On the other hand, a “tax-gatherer” was an outcast from the Jews by choice, having become a traitor to his own people. Jesus’ use of these terms doesn’t mean that the church is to treat these people badly. It simply means that when a professing believer refuses to repent, the church is to treat him as if he were outside of the fellowship. They are not to let him associate and participate in the blessings and benefits of the Christian assembly"


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Sounds like a lot of judging going on in here .... from actual church-goers. 

Whether they stay or leave should be thier own personal choice and not anyone else's.

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Rowan said:


> My son's stepmom was previously married to a minister. They were asked to leave their first congregation and had to move half-way across the state when he was caught cheating with the church's music director - who was also her best friend. A bit later, he was again caught in an affair with the choir director at their new church - also her new best friend. They moved again. _He _eventually left _her_ when his OW at their third church wound up pregnant with his child.
> 
> I feel bad for a pastor's wife who stays with him after he gets caught cheating with a parishioner. But it's harder to feel all that sorry for her after the second or third time. At a certain point, she's no longer a victim but a volunteer who is enabling the situation to continue. The guy clearly had a penchant for sleeping with her friends and/or women in his congregation. And she just kept forgiving him and uprooting her entire life to follow him to his next congregation, like a good little wife.


I blame the church too. Why is the word not spread about this predator.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jorgegene said:


> I've perused the internet for church teaching on whether this guy should be kicked out the the church.
> 
> Really, it comes down to whether he is repentant or not. I find nowhere in scripture that someone should be kicked out without a chance (several chances) of repentance.
> so that what it really comes down to for this guy. Is he repentant or not???
> ...


All of this could and in my opinion be taken as the whole church not an individual parish. No one is saying kick him out of the church as a whole, just this individual parish mostly because of the damage it does to everyone else. Remember we are talking about the former leader of the church.

Also convenient that everyone just ignores 1 Corinthians 5:9-11.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

foolscotton3 said:


> *I understand it takes 2 to tango, but leaders should be held to higher standards. *


I agree. If this were a teacher, they'd be fired, not assigned another class in the same school. Responsibility = accepting consequences.



MattMatt said:


> Cast the sinner out!
> 
> Who cares what Jesus said about forgiveness?
> *
> ...


This involves pot, right? If so, it might help!


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Religion is the most seductive system that man has ever created. Church leaders know this very well. It is the basis for every religion on earth. The more powerful the seduction, the bigger the following. 

In seducing individuals, there is no power in respecting boundaries and limits. That is a reason most religions teach to refrain from judgement. Nonetheless, we as humans still seduce whom we aren't suppose to as much as we judge.

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## freder (Jul 6, 2016)

Hombre Apexmale.....you have one busted up psyche....you have been seduced by the bogus one


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

It's too bad what happened with the pastor. I was gonna ask him to officiate our upcoming 20 year anniversary "renewal of the wedding vows" ceremony. But based on both his track record and my wife's, perhaps it's not a good idea for those two to be around each other.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

freder said:


> Hombre Apexmale.....you have one busted up psyche....you have been seduced by the bogus one


I agree with the first half of your response.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> It's too bad what happened with the pastor. I was gonna ask him to officiate our upcoming 20 year anniversary "renewal of the wedding vows" ceremony. But based on both his track record and my wife's, perhaps it's not a good idea for those two to be around each other.


You meant that to be ironically funny right? :smile2:

I mean if you can't take your wife to church where can you take her? 

Seriously though, with your history this must have been really hard for you huh? How close were you to the Pastor? Sad that even the church triggers you. Hang in there MD.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> It's too bad what happened with the pastor. I was gonna ask him to officiate our upcoming 20 year anniversary "renewal of the wedding vows" ceremony. *But based on both his track record and my wife's, perhaps it's not a good idea for those two to be around each other.*


:grin2:
I agree

especially if the pastor know of your wife's past


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

He was aware of the huge impact that her infidelity had on our relationship, so he should have known better.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> He was aware of the huge impact that her infidelity had on our relationship, so he should have known better.


Whatju mean, "he should have known better"? It wasn't your old lady he was playing with, was it?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

VladDracul said:


> Whatju mean, "he should have known better"? It wasn't your old lady he was playing with, was it?


No. He should have realized that infidelity has no place in a married man's life, pastor or not.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

VladDracul said:


> Anyway you look at it, the BH and the preacher's wife will be the laughing stock of the church and the foil of more than a few jokes.


Not if MAJ's church is full of real Christians. The parishoners will be mourning for the pastor, the OW, and their families. It is always very sad when someone destroys their life and someone else's. Others will be glad he is gone, so he can't lie on the pulpit anymore, or hurt anyone else.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Not if MAJ's church is full of real Christians. The parishoners will be mourning for the pastor, the OW, and their families. It is always very sad when someone destroys their life and someone else's. Others will be glad he is gone, so he can't lie on the pulpit anymore, or hurt anyone else.


I bet 70% of the people in his church have cheated on their spouse, all hypocrites. The stats don't lie. The pastor just got busted, this time.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

GuyInColorado said:


> I bet 70% of the people in his church have cheated on their spouse, all hypocrites. The stats don't lie. The pastor just got busted, this time.


What stats? If they are true, that doesn't mean the parishoners will be laughing and joking about the Pastor with each other. Those who cheated and sincerely repented know the damage they created. Their spouses know the damage. Those people won't be joking about the pastor. Those who haven't cheated or been cheated on will not be joking either, because it simply isn't funny. Especially to a person who knows the Bible, and who loves their church family.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Gotta wonder where his hands were during baptisms? 

Yikes!!!!!!


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Come on IM, you good and well there will be any number of folks in church gossiping and joking about this. I can hear some of the women folk now, "I wouldn't let my husband go near that floozy". Many folks in church are sinners and they are where they ought to be.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

VD: gossiping, yes. Joking, no. And yes, people in churches are sinners, just like everybody else, and we know it. Hopefully more are trying to do what is right, than those who are blatant hypocrites and could care less.

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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Maybe you're right IM but I wouldn't be surprised if some wise cracking clown in the congregation didn't come up with a couple of one liners like, "They knew God would never approve of the preacher diddling with a female church member. So they thought, what the hey, we'll just do it and ask for forgiveness."


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

VD, at least we know you are laughing and joking.

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I think some of you have the wrong misconception about Christianity. I always say the very reason I go to church is because I am a sinner, not because I am perfect. Yes there are some church goers who have the judgmental better then others attitude. This has done the faith a lot of damage, just as much as actions of this pastor. However a person who is true to the christian faith will believe that we are all sinners.


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## wizernow (Dec 31, 2015)

Restoring a church member/parishioner to the body (church) is one thing. Restoring a fallen leader to that position as leader is a different matter.
. 
Christian leaders are to be "above reproach". Very high standard, but not perfection.

https://www.gty.org/resources/print/articles/A256


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