# Is this a guarantee? For life?



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

My question for you is, do you believe this is a woman who will not cheat? Don't get me wrong. I think this is a woman of great character. Many are. However, does what this man wrote and what Isabel did make her immune to infidelity? Maybe it simply means she is very unlikely to stray? What is your opinion? 

My first thoughts are, "There is no guarantee, no matter how great her character is". 

What do you think? 







> David Pettit, Russian Orthodox Christian, American. Lifelong historian.
> Updated Sun
> 
> Matthew, thanks for asking this of me.
> ...


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I think it's a woman that loves her dog, which is a great trait in itself, but I don't see how that has any bearing on whether she would cheat or not.
This quote:


> For the first time ever, ever, she did not even want to speak to me.


doesn't seem like a very healthy reaction. When the chips are down she shuts out her SO, but that's just my take.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

I have done the same for more dogs than I can count. I work rescue and, sometimes you take in dogs just so their last hours can be spent in comfort with someone who cares. All this means is that I value life in all it's many forms.

I don't think this has anything to do with whether or not a person will cheat on their SO.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes, if she loves her husband equally, hopefully more so.

Integrity was not mentioned here.

What was mentioned, if I read this story right, is she loved her dog. 
She would do anything for the dog to keep it healthy and alive. 

As said, she would do anything for those beings that she loved.

If she was lukewarm with respect to her husband and another man caught her eye and her fancy, we cannot say she will not attend to the new man's bodily needs more than her husbands.

We do know that she will go to great lengths for her beloved.

The key here is who or what does she love.

That is who she will be faithful to.

Now, if she took care of her dog for both love and because it is the right thing to do, that speaks of morals and integrity, then that makes her less susceptible to infidelity.

Her heart seems to rule her actions.

I say she could be susceptible to falling in love with another man and cheating.

Why? Love, more than common sense might inspire her.

We need a more complete picture of who and what this women is, was in the past.

Remember, this was her beloved dog.....

Not her lonely, hungry puzzy-cat.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ha!

To think that this woman is somehow immune to the potential temptation of infidelity simply because she cares for animals is beyond idiocy.

In fact, I’d argue that it’s the “heart on their sleeve” folks that are _more likely_ to engage in infidelity.

Gimme a break.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't see any connection. Many people who love their animals cheat. The story is horrifying and tragic - but the decision to bring a dying pet home rather then euthanize it doesn't represent either more or less love, it is just a horrible decision most pet owners eventually face. 

I don't think there is any way to know from the outside if someone will cheat. I think the strongest hint though, is someone who has no interest in sex is unlikely to cheat - why would they? Of course that will cause other relationship issues. 





2ntnuf said:


> My question for you is, do you believe this is a woman who will not cheat? Don't get me wrong. I think this is a woman of great character. Many are. However, does what this man wrote and what Isabel did make her immune to infidelity? Maybe it simply means she is very unlikely to stray? What is your opinion?
> 
> My first thoughts are, "There is no guarantee, no matter how great her character is".
> 
> What do you think?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I much prefer dogs to people, so how I treat a dog and how I treat a person may be very different. Just saying, one is not the measure of the other.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't see caring for the dog as demonstrating integrity. She did it because she loves the dog. With a deep enough love, you are motivated to do anything. But that is not integrity. Integrity is more about doing the right thing even when you're not motivated. If she didn't love dogs, would she do the same? Probably not. So she took care of her dog because she loved *that specific* dog, not because she has integrity.

Integrity is more about how you act when no one is looking. If you are alone in a remote area and find a wallet stuffed with money, what do you do? Do you keep the money and no one would ever know, or do contact the person who lost it and return it to them and refuse any recognition or reward? That's integrity. I would believe that someone with a strong sense of integrity would be less likely to cheat, but not that they would be immune to it.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I think the question of, "will a woman cheat?" and the quote that you posted are completely irrelevant to one another. Comparing apples and oranges, so to speak. Yes, Isabel seems to be a woman of integrity because of her love for this dog, but that doesn't mean she won't cheat.

How people relate to animals is an interesting thing. Some people love their animals more than their spouse. Some people, having been so hurt by people they have loved, no longer trust other people and use their pets as an emotional surrogate for human love because they cannot bear the thought of trusting, loving, and possibly being hurt again by another human. Thy invest emotionally in animals because an an animal will love them unconditionally and will never hurt them.

And I would, in fact, argue that Isabel is NOT a woman of integrity, and she is selfish. Really? Yes, I would absolutely argue this. Her dog is dying, in pain, in anguish. Isabel has the choice to be merciful and show her dog the kindness of taking away the pain by having the vet put the dog to sleep. But does she choose to end her dog's suffering? NO. She decides, because she [selfishly] wants a few more hours with her dog, to take the dog home so the dog can continue to live a few more hours suffering in excruciating pain. How is that love? It isn't. Isabel is placing her own needs above that of the dog, and that is very selfish.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

No one is immune to cheating. No...they aren't. The best way to protect oneself from cheating (because all you can control is yourself) is to have very strong boundaries and precautions in place. And choose a partner who has the same.

The most dangerous person to be with is the person who says "I would NEVER...." because they think they are above it, and "pride goes before the fall."


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> My question for you is, do you believe this is a woman who will not cheat? Don't get me wrong. I think this is a woman of great character. Many are. However, does what this man wrote and what Isabel did make her immune to infidelity? Maybe it simply means she is very unlikely to stray? What is your opinion?
> 
> My first thoughts are, "There is no guarantee, no matter how great her character is".
> 
> What do you think?


The part of your story about the man and his wife in the boat raises an interesting question.Isn’t he better off never finding out about his wife’s infidelity,he is blissfully happy as things are so why rock the boat.(Pardon the pun)
Or maybe in her past she was a party girl or even a hooker.If he doesn’t know and he is happy what possible benefits are there in him finding out.Other than health reasons,std etc then I can’t think of any.
There have been a number of threads on tam about telling your so about your previous partners,your count as it were.I am definitely in the don’t ask/don’t tell group but I think that is a minority.
Maybe this is a thread jack,if so I apologize.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

One reason that infidelity breaks through someone's integrity is that sex and affection produce very powerful mood and behavior changing chemicals in the brain. It's easy to be a good and moral person when you're not under the influence of these brain drugs. But given the right circumstances, your brain creates justifications that make it seem okay to do immoral things.

For example, most people say they won't steal, but what if they were starving, didn't have any money, and came across some food they could take without getting caught? Even if you think you wouldn't take the food, you don't really know how you would act until you were actually in that scenario. The feeling of being starving will create powerful and primitive desires which are hard to resist. You might create some justification for taking it, like "they won't miss it" or "I'll pay it back later", but that doesn't change the fact that it's still stealing and wrong.

So one key of being able to maintain integrity is to avoid situations where your willpower is weakened. In the case of affairs, that means being aware of your feelings, avoid putting yourself in situations where flirting may happen, deflecting flirting advances when they happen, etc. But I doubt if anyone is truly immune. Imagine the scenario where your marriage is basically dead, you're on an extended business trip, and you run into your high-school crush who is ecstatic to see you and wants to get busy. The flood of feel-good brain chemicals would make resisting your crush very, very difficult. It'd be like an addict trying to resist heroin.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> The part of your story about the man and his wife in the boat raises an interesting question.Isn’t he better off never finding out about his wife’s infidelity,he is blissfully happy as things are so why rock the boat.(Pardon the pun)
> Or maybe in her past she was a party girl or even a hooker.If he doesn’t know and he is happy what possible benefits are there in him finding out.Other than health reasons,std etc then I can’t think of any.
> There have been a number of threads on tam about telling your so about your previous partners,your count as it were.I am definitely in the don’t ask/don’t tell group but I think that is a minority.
> Maybe this is a thread jack,if so I apologize.


No, that's okay, but I'd like to stick with the topic for a while, if possible. I am really very much enjoying reading the responses. They are really great. After we get through this page and maybe any questions or contradictions, we can come back to this. 

I was moved by the story. I couldn't really correlate how she treatd her belovd dog to being faithful to a husband. It is not a bad sign, in my opinion. I simply cannot stop believing anyone is free from the possibility of cheating.

Who said, above, that if someone had no desire for sex, thye might be free from it. I had no desire for sex with my second wife, after a while, but my desire for certain women never failed. I never did anything. I just knew because when they were around, I felt a desire to be with them. I never said or did anything unsavory. However, if I can feel that way, I think anyone might. 

Gotta keep reading. Great answers everyone. 

I hope more who read this will offer their opinions.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

aine said:


> I much prefer dogs to people, so how I treat a dog and how I treat a person may be very different. Just saying, one is not the measure of the other.


uh oh...


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Like others have said, practically I see no connection here between someone who loves their dog, and the ability to cheat. 

Nor do I see anything noble about prolonging an animal’s suffering when a dignified painless death was available. Why? Why bring the animal home to suffer? In a selfish attempt to have more time with them? In a selfish delusion that the animal will bounce back - whil instead making it suffer terribly because the human refuses to accept reality? 

Because it’s somehow selfless or shows dedication because she was willing face the messy things, just to have more time with the dog?

Did she bring the dog home because it was the best thing for the dog, or because it’s what she could handle emotionally?

If anything, I would think someone so emotionally driven, so irrational, so willing to do extreme things in the name of “love” would be far from immune to cheating. 

Edited to add - while the author tells us it’s moments like this that give him comfort regarding integrity..... wishful thinking. For instance I am incredibly dedicated to my pets, pulled plenty of all nighters through sickness, my level of dedication to the care of my horse is somewhat ridiculous (honestly its the first thing I think an every morning). But - I have also cheated. The two are entirely unrelated. 



uhtred said:


> I think the strongest hint though, is someone who has no interest in sex is unlikely to cheat - why would they?


Cheating, in men and women, often doesn’t have to do that much with the need for sex, but rather everything to do with the need to feel desired. 

To feel wanted, to feel attractive, to be lusted after, to be complimented, to be chased after, to conquest.....

I could go on and on. There are many who cheat physically while having very active sex lives at home. 

And I have read multiple accounts by women who had really lost all desire for sex, but sex was something they were more than willing to exchange for attention and desire.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Ignore this post.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Yes, but its such a difficult problem. The decision of when to put down our cat who had cancer was one of the most difficult I've ever made. All I can say is we did our best to do what we thought was best for the cat. 




FeministInPink said:


> snip
> 
> And I would, in fact, argue that Isabel is NOT a woman of integrity, and she is selfish. Really? Yes, I would absolutely argue this. Her dog is dying, in pain, in anguish. Isabel has the choice to be merciful and show her dog the kindness of taking away the pain by having the vet put the dog to sleep. But does she choose to end her dog's suffering? NO. She decides, because she [selfishly] wants a few more hours with her dog, to take the dog home so the dog can continue to live a few more hours suffering in excruciating pain. How is that love? It isn't. Isabel is placing her own needs above that of the dog, and that is very selfish.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Yes, but its such a difficult problem. The decision of when to put down our cat who had cancer was one of the most difficult I've ever made. All I can say is we did our best to do what we thought was best for the cat.


It’s kinda off topic, but I like a quote that is often heard in veterinary circles. 

“Better a week too early than an hour too late”. 

Animals live in the moment. Animals are often stoic and hide their pain. They do not have visions of the future, plans for the weekend, hopes to see someone one last time. 

Instead they live in the here and now. If the heere and now is pain and suffering - then that is their reality. It’s up to humans to decide to prolong or end that suffering.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I shouldnthave said:


> It’s kinda off topic, but I like a quote that is often heard in veterinary circles.
> 
> “Better a week too early than an hour too late”.
> 
> ...


 But she healed the dog and all ended well, so where do you draw the line?


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> But she healed the dog and all ended well, so where do you draw the line?


Well.... I guess that is where I interpreted the story differently. The dog went for a walk in the am. I assumed that was the dogs last walk, and that it eventually succumbed to internal infection, anemia etc - all which would be expected in a case like that. 

But perhaps a miracle happened, the dog was able to overcome a perforation of the intentional track without surgical intervention and intravenous antibiotics.... and went to live happy and healthy pain free years?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I shouldnthave said:


> Well.... I guess that is where I interpreted the story differently. The dog went for a walk in the am. I assumed that was the dogs last walk, and that it eventually succumbed to internal infection, anemia etc - all which would be expected in a case like that.
> 
> But perhaps a miracle happened, the dog was able to overcome a perforation of the intentional track without surgical intervention and intravenous antibiotics.... and went to live happy and healthy pain free years?


 Hmmm, If your take is correct than I agree 100% she let the dog suffer for her own needs.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Hmmm, If your take is correct than I agree 100% she let the dog suffer for her own needs.


Yes, but I think the walk was a sign the dog was getting better. That's the way I understood it. I don't think he would have posted that and his conclusions, if the dog was not getting better. He seemed to be linking her not giving up with not giving up on a marriage and cheating.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> But she healed the dog and all ended well, so where do you draw the line?


You have to use your judgement. No one can tell the future. It would be irresponsible to count on a miraculous recovery for a painful, terminal illness. 

The owner should consider how the dog is feeling and the realistic expectation for the dog's future. Dogs often don't care too much about non-painful inconveniences caused by their illnesses, such as paralyzation, incontinence, loss of appetite, and so on. Owners often do what it takes to ensure their dogs are comfortable even if it means they have to hand feed them steak and carry them outside as necessary. But once the dog is starting to feel very uncomfortable and is only likely to get worse, then it's time to really consider what should be done. 

Owners often feel like their dog is like a child, so it can be very difficult emotionally to make that decision. I won't fault any dog owner for waiting too long. Speaking from my own personal experience, sometimes it's too emotional of a decision to make until it's clear that it's the only option.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

wilson said:


> Owners often feel like their dog is like a child, so it can be very difficult emotionally to make that decision. I won't fault any dog owner for waiting too long. Speaking from my own personal experience, sometimes it's too emotional of a decision to make until it's clear that it's the only option.


I agree. Been there done that too many times.
My question was based on my response to someone else's different interpretation to the conclusion of that story. I assumed the dog lived. @I shouldnthave thought the dog died. So not only was the story totally incongruous to cheating it had an obtuse ending. The author would be perfect for Rolling Stone magazine if he could make that article about 10 more pages of wordy tripe.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

There are some people who treat humans badly yet love their pets, so not sure of the connection. Some may say that letting that dog go was the kindest thing, rather than let it carry on its terrible suffering. 

Having said that, I think that a person of real integrity isn't that common, and if you are married to one of those people you are very blessed. There are people who would just never cheat, and never have despite opportunities and struggles in their own marriages.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its so hard to tell. For a long time out cat gave no indication that anything was wrong even though we knew she had cancer. Should we have had the lump surgically removed, which gave her an extra year of life? Should we give her pain killers, or just put her down? Its a horrible horrible situation. 

Its even bad with people who are able to talk. My father told me to let him die in the hospital. I spent a week with him and convinced him to live - and he did, another 10 years, 6 of them living independently. 






I shouldnthave said:


> It’s kinda off topic, but I like a quote that is often heard in veterinary circles.
> 
> “Better a week too early than an hour too late”.
> 
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Andy commented on this part of the quote in the thread starter post:



> David Pettit, Russian Orthodox Christian, American. Lifelong historian.
> Updated Sun
> 
> Matthew, thanks for asking this of me.
> ...






Andy1001 said:


> The part of your story about the man and his wife in the boat raises an interesting question.Isn’t he better off never finding out about his wife’s infidelity,he is blissfully happy as things are so why rock the boat.(Pardon the pun)
> Or maybe in her past she was a party girl or even a hooker.If he doesn’t know and he is happy what possible benefits are there in him finding out.Other than health reasons,std etc then I can’t think of any.
> There have been a number of threads on tam about telling your so about your previous partners,your count as it were.I am definitely in the don’t ask/don’t tell group but I think that is a minority.
> Maybe this is a thread jack,if so I apologize.


The fellow believed that was integrity. Here is the definition of integrity:



> THESAURUS
> WORD OF THE DAY
> VIDEO
> WORDS AT PLAY
> ...



Figured I would look up what integrity means in a psychological sense:



> “Integrity” is a word you hear almost every day, but it’s not a word that people spend a lot of time thinking about. If you try to define it, what would you say? According to the dictionary, integrity is "firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values." Put another way, the root of integrity is about doing the right thing even when it’s not acknowledged by others, or convenient for you. An individual with integrity is the antidote to self-interest. There are countless examples of integrity in everyday life—and yet we seldom see some of the examples highlighted below acted out in our daily lives:
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-is-2020/201504/7-signs-people-integrity



Is telling or not telling about the affair, as in the example from the thread starter post, congruent with integrity as defined above? 

I don't know what my opinion is, yet. I will have to think about this. I'll be back later. Please give your opinions, if you want. Don't try to convince anyone to change their mind, and try not to allow judgment to color your post. Just tell us your conclusions and what brought you to them. 

I'll do the best I can to do the same later today.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> Ha!
> 
> In fact, I’d argue that it’s the *“heart on their sleeve” folks t*hat are _more likely_ to engage in infidelity.


Same goes for the "Touchy-Feely" types.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> Re: Is this a guarantee? For life?
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by GusPolinski View Post
> Ha!
> ...


LOL


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

RWB said:


> Same goes for the "Touchy-Feely" types.


There was a story on another forum recently about this guy and his relationship with his girlfriend,it was her who was asking advice.
She described him as a “heart on his sleeve” type of guy.
Basically he was out of town for a week for a training course for his job and towards the end of the week he called her and broke up with her,this was completely out of the blue and she was devastated.He told her he had realized he didn’t love her any more.
The next day he called her back and said he had been drinking too much,was overtired and stressed out about the training course,he insisted he loved her and begged her to take him back which she was happy to do.
But it gets better (or worse).
One of his colleagues who she was also friends with rang her later that day and told her that the boyfriend had been chatting all week with another woman on the course and they had basically been inseparable.She said that he stayed in the other woman’s hotel room the previous night and admitted to a friend that they had been having sex.
When the op called him back and challenged him he became furious and told her whatever he did while they were broken up was none of her business and started screaming at her when she asked him had he broke up with her just to screw the other woman.He said he had done nothing to be ashamed of.
She dumped him and he still refuses to admit he did anything wrong.
Heart on the sleeve? Yeah.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Integrity, would be staying faithful to, one's self, one's honor. I cannot believe telling or not, has anything to do with integrity. I believe it is about pride, self esteem, and dishonor.


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