# Is this normal? MLC?



## whataquandry

I've been struggling as of late and it's driving me crazy. Here is the brief back story:

Married 20 years with 2 teenagers
Met through mutual friends, dated for 2 years had first child 3 years into marriage
Me, full time financial provider
Her, part time worker now was SAHM for 10 years

Current State
Very active children, constantly at a sporting event, practice, etc..
we are friendly, like roomates
she maintains the household (poorly with the exception of finances and the children)
I'm unhappy, disconnected and am contemplating leaving. Our sex life was good in the beginning but fell off after children because we were busy and I was working in start-ups with long hours. 
I have no desire to be with her physically and quite honestly even small things she does are aggravating to me now. I'm quite grumpy often and when she asks why I'm not completely honest with her. She has gained a lot of weight and she does not appear to be motivated to improve on that. 
I also have gained weight and have gone up and down, but have not let myself go.

I'm active in my children's lives, coach their sports and attend all school functions and spend time with them daily with conversation.

With all of that said, I'm also very outgoing and she is not. I have made friends with women and she's accused me of cheating many times over the years, I have not strayed. Recently I have made a connection with someone who shares similar goals and outlook on life and we have been texting almost daily for about a month. 
We've not met, she knows I'm married and has no desire to spend time with a married man. This is what I believe is driving me to think deeper, up until now I thought about leaving several times over the years but never acted on it. 

I think the best course of action is to talk with my wife about our relationship and let her know just how unhappy I am. I'm sure there are things she would like to tell me also. I think this conversation would be best suited to be with a MC, she can be volatile and I will clam up if that happens. 

My dilemma is that I don't know that I want this marriage to continue. I'm having a hard time picturing what a happy life would look like with her in 10-20 years. I'd rather be alone at this point. 

I'm really stressed but it's more about having the conversation with my wife and emotional impact on her and the children. I've been processing this for a while, so I'm emotionally prepared for the future. For her this will be I think somewhat shocking, although I'm sure there are signs so this may just be validation of what she may be thinking already.

I appreciate this forum and look for some tips, suggestions and constructive help.


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## ScrambledEggs

You are straying because you are looking to someone other than your wife for partnership/companionship affiliation, affirmation, and toying with possible futures with them. It might not be the same thing as a secret weekend in Vegas, but it is on the same road. 

It is common for relationships to flounder like this and not break until one partner has an affair that gives them the focus and confidence to leave. I know that might not be the choice you make but this is usually the way it goes and it is the way it went for my marriage.

Your post leaves us with the impression that you don't discuss your needs with your wife, or if you do you don't let her know how serious it is. The fact that you have fallen out of love with her without a long process of attempting to set boundaries and address your needs via MC, a sex therapist, and a lot of reading and talking is a problem that you need to solve for yourself--with or without divorce.

You are on the right path with MC I think. You also need to take a hard look your part in this going on so long and so far. I know it is easy for us guys to get wrapped up in our career and ignore the relationship, but this is what you get for that.

I have not read it yet but this book is highly recommended here.

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

Good luck


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## clipclop2

You are in an emotional affair. You have strayed. Face that fact right away. You wouldn't be posting if the status quo were still the status quo.

You are stressed? I bet you weren't going to mention the other women to her and you were going to let her believe this is either all her fault or the worst lie of all that you have just grown apart.

No

Why not ask the other woman to talk to your wife for you. After all, she is going to solve all of your other problems for you so what is one more?


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## Thor

I suggest a book called "Too good to leave, too bad to stay". It provides a process for evaluating how happy you might be if you stay vs how happy you might be if you leave.

I also suggest the amazing book "5 Love Languages". It could be that you two just aren't connecting in ways meaningful to each other.

Another outstanding book is "Getting the Love You Want" and the workbook which goes with it.

First things first, ditch this other woman and any other women you have a more than perfunctory relationship with. I say this as someone who has been in your shoes and really understand, I think, what is going through your mind. You like the attention you are getting, and you realize there are OPTIONS out there which are pretty interesting. Some of these options might include a whole new life, and you realize that there are other women out there who are interested in you, and whom you find very interesting.

The problem? The decision should not be your wife vs some other woman. Your decision should be based on whether you can have a fulfilling marriage with your wife. If the answer is yes, great. Work on it. But if the answer is no, it is no. A "no" is not dependent on who might be her replacement. I think you are looking at A vs B, when you should be looking at whether A is even acceptable to you.

The book "Not Just Friends" is a bit long but it may be worth you reading it if you can stick with it. The author talks about windows and walls. Your marriage should have windows in it which allow you two to openly communicate and to be fully visible to each other. Your marriage should have walls around it to keep threats out. You have swapped the two, with walls inside your marriage but windows outside.

Be assured you are on a well proven track to an affair of one form or another.

Set a deadline in your mind of 90 or 180 days. Put 100% into your marriage and see if it can be what you want. If it doesn't work, you can walk away confident that you did everything possible to resurrect it.

It is ok to leave your wife even if she is a good person. It is ok to lose attraction and lose love for someone. She doesn't have to be a monster or a loser for you to be justified in leaving. But at least behave honorably and honestly with your wife.


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## clipclop2

Another consideration... The OW isn't interested on spending time with a married man but she has texted with a married man for a month. Are you naive? 

She is single?

And your wife knows all about this woman and your texting and has seen the texts and is OK with the tone and content?


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## whataquandry

ScrambledEggs said:


> You are straying because you are looking to someone other than your wife for partnership/companionship affiliation, affirmation, and toying with possible futures with them. It might not be the same thing as a secret weekend in Vegas, but it is on the same road.
> 
> It is common for relationships to flounder like this and not break until one partner has an affair that gives them the focus and confidence to leave. I know that might not be the choice you make but this is usually the way it goes and it is the way it went for my marriage.
> 
> Your post leaves us with the impression that you don't discuss your needs with your wife, or if you do you don't let her know how serious it is. The fact that you have fallen out of love with her without a long process of attempting to set boundaries and address your needs via MC, a sex therapist, and a lot of reading and talking is a problem that you need to solve for yourself--with or without divorce.
> 
> You are on the right path with MC I think. You also need to take a hard look your part in this going on so long and so far. I know it is easy for us guys to get wrapped up in our career and ignore the relationship, but this is what you get for that.
> 
> I have not read it yet but this book is highly recommended here.
> 
> Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.
> 
> Good luck


The harsh reality is that I believe I fell out of love for her a very long time ago, however being busy with the children and associated activities allowed (for me anyway) an easy way to be distracted from working on our relationship.

Maybe I'll try IC first by myself to talk through my issues with someone who can listen and guide impartially.


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## whataquandry

clipclop2 said:


> You are in an emotional affair. You have strayed. Face that fact right away. You wouldn't be posting if the status quo were still the status quo.
> 
> You are stressed? I bet you weren't going to mention the other women to her and you were going to let her believe this is either all her fault or the worst lie of all that you have just grown apart.
> 
> No
> 
> Why not ask the other woman to talk to your wife for you. After all, she is going to solve all of your other problems for you so what is one more?


Correct, I've strayed. What is the point of mentioning any women to her? It's my decision not theirs and I have the balls to tell my wife herself not let someone else do that for me. If you read my original post again, I said I'd rather be alone. I have no intention of picking up with someone at this point, that wouldn't be good for anyone.


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## whataquandry

clipclop2 said:


> Another consideration... The OW isn't interested on spending time with a married man but she has texted with a married man for a month. Are you naive?
> 
> She is single?
> 
> And your wife knows all about this woman and your texting and has seen the texts and is OK with the tone and content?


I'm not naive, I realize the undertone and natural order of things in exchanging texts between 2 adults in this situation.


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## whataquandry

ScrambledEggs said:


> You are straying because you are looking to someone other than your wife for partnership/companionship affiliation, affirmation, and toying with possible futures with them. It might not be the same thing as a secret weekend in Vegas, but it is on the same road.
> 
> It is common for relationships to flounder like this and not break until one partner has an affair that gives them the focus and confidence to leave. I know that might not be the choice you make but this is usually the way it goes and it is the way it went for my marriage.
> 
> Your post leaves us with the impression that you don't discuss your needs with your wife, or if you do you don't let her know how serious it is. The fact that you have fallen out of love with her without a long process of attempting to set boundaries and address your needs via MC, a sex therapist, and a lot of reading and talking is a problem that you need to solve for yourself--with or without divorce.
> 
> You are on the right path with MC I think. You also need to take a hard look your part in this going on so long and so far. I know it is easy for us guys to get wrapped up in our career and ignore the relationship, but this is what you get for that.
> 
> I have not read it yet but this book is highly recommended here.
> 
> Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.
> 
> Good luck


Totally agree! I will start with IC to get my head on straight and see what I really want. I think I fell out of love a long time ago but the hustle and bustle of daily life with active children allowed me to easily become distracted and convince myself into thinking things were ok and they aren't.


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## ScrambledEggs

whataquandry said:


> What is the point of mentioning any women to her? It's my decision not theirs and I have the balls to tell my wife herself not let someone else do that for me. If you read my original post again.



You are missing the point. That poster is suggesting that you should be honest with your wife about emotional affairs. To not do so doubles down the dysfunction of your marriage.

The suggestion that your 'friend' talk to her was tongue and cheek and was the artful, I think, use of sarcasm to point out denial for the part you have played in the dysfunction of your marriage. Deceiving yourself to think that the whole of the problem is with your wife without giving sufficient reflection and work on your own way of being in a relationship. I have no doubt your wife has let her self go, but that does not make your way of dealing with it any more open, constructive, helpful, or honest.

There are a few basic types of online persona's that present here. The most common is the wounded and betrayed spouse. Rare is a spouse in a marriage that is just coming apart despite both couples working hard. And the other common type is the spouse that is fed up with the marriage and is searching for vindication and justification to walk away from it--often into the arms of an existing or pre-arranged affair. 

You have to appreciate that most of us here are on the other side of this. We had a spouse that betrayed us because they got bored with marriage and rather than deal openly and constructively with the problems they found comfort elsewhere and destroyed the marriage. As such you are a foil for a lot of folks pain and are going to get a rough review but it is probably stuff you need to read. This is for you and your own success in marriage, be it with your wife, or a future one.

That said there are many here that are here for other reasons or whose divorce is far enough back they can take the emotion out of it, but even they will probably give you a bit of grief for getting so far emotionally detached without hard work done in counseling, communication and otherwise honoring the commitment of marriage.


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## juno 42

As someone with 2 teenagers whose husband recently left after 25 years because he 'wasn't happy', I think I can relate to this. 

Texting almost daily for a month with someone you have an emotional connection to??? That's called cheating. Anything you're doing with another woman that you wouldn't do with the knowledge of your spouse - that's cheating. If you didn't know it was wrong you wouldn't be hiding it, so don't make excuses. Stop all communication with this other party immediately. At least give your spouse the respect she's earned over the past 20 years. 

'she maintains the house poorly with the exception of the children and the finances' and she works???? So she works and looks after the kids and the finances. Unless you have pancake batter dripping from the ceiling it sounds like this woman is pulling her share of the load. 

I think you're looking for excuses. That's what my STBX is doing. And because he has no 'real' reason, he feels guilty. People are asking questions he has no acceptable answer for and now he's angry. I'm not causing problems but I refuse to justify his behaviour. I refuse to tell him he's a nice guy and had justifiable reasons to leave our relationship. And you know what's happening now?? He takes every opportunity to attack me, trying to get me to behave badly so he can have some excuse to make himself feel better. This is where you're headed. You will continue to attack your spouse to make yourself feel better. You'll find meaningless issues and make them into something horrible. It's ugly and painful. 

And yes, I believe now my spouse has a 'pre-arranged affair' in the works, but only time will tell. 

Just my opinion, take it or leave it.


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## whataquandry

ScrambledEggs said:


> You are missing the point. That poster is suggesting that you should be honest with your wife about emotional affairs. To not do so doubles down the dysfunction of your marriage.
> 
> The suggestion that your 'friend' talk to her was tongue and cheek and was the artful, I think, use of sarcasm to point out denial for the part you have played in the dysfunction of your marriage. Deceiving yourself to think that the whole of the problem is with your wife without giving sufficient reflection and work on your own way of being in a relationship. I have no doubt your wife has let her self go, but that does not make your way of dealing with it any more open, constructive, helpful, or honest.
> 
> There are a few basic types of online persona's that present here. The most common is the wounded and betrayed spouse. Rare is a spouse in a marriage that is just coming apart despite both couples working hard. And the other common type is the spouse that is fed up with the marriage and is searching for vindication and justification to walk away from it--often into the arms of an existing or pre-arranged affair.
> 
> You have to appreciate that most of us here are on the other side of this. We had a spouse that betrayed us because they got bored with marriage and rather than deal openly and constructively with the problems they found comfort elsewhere and destroyed the marriage. As such you are a foil for a lot of folks pain and are going to get a rough review but it is probably stuff you need to read. This is for you and your own success in marriage, be it with your wife, or a future one.
> 
> That said there are many here that are here for other reasons or whose divorce is far enough back they can take the emotion out of it, but even they will probably give you a bit of grief for getting so far emotionally detached without hard work done in counseling, communication and otherwise honoring the commitment of marriage.


This is great feedback, thank you. After reading this forum for hours, it's clear that the majority of folks are on the receiving end where I'm coming from the opposite position. There are always 3 sides to a story, I'm fully aware that I'm responsible for my actions and there are lots of things that I could and should be doing to honor my commitments as a husband. I'm going to look at some IC and see if I can wrap my head around this with some impartial help.


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## whataquandry

juno 42 said:


> As someone with 2 teenagers whose husband recently left after 25 years because he 'wasn't happy', I think I can relate to this.
> 
> Texting almost daily for a month with someone you have an emotional connection to??? That's called cheating. Anything you're doing with another woman that you wouldn't do with the knowledge of your spouse - that's cheating. If you didn't know it was wrong you wouldn't be hiding it, so don't make excuses. Stop all communication with this other party immediately. At least give your spouse the respect she's earned over the past 20 years.
> 
> 'she maintains the house poorly with the exception of the children and the finances' and she works???? So she works and looks after the kids and the finances. Unless you have pancake batter dripping from the ceiling it sounds like this woman is pulling her share of the load.
> 
> I think you're looking for excuses. That's what my STBX is doing. And because he has no 'real' reason, he feels guilty. People are asking questions he has no acceptable answer for and now he's angry. I'm not causing problems but I refuse to justify his behaviour. I refuse to tell him he's a nice guy and had justifiable reasons to leave our relationship. And you know what's happening now?? He takes every opportunity to attack me, trying to get me to behave badly so he can have some excuse to make himself feel better. This is where you're headed. You will continue to attack your spouse to make yourself feel better. You'll find meaningless issues and make them into something horrible. It's ugly and painful.
> 
> And yes, I believe now my spouse has a 'pre-arranged affair' in the works, but only time will tell.
> 
> Just my opinion, take it or leave it.


I'm glad I found this forum, it's helpful to hear real life situations from those who have gone through this. I'm sorry that you are going through this now.
I'm going to cut it off with the person I'm texting with and seek come counseling so I can self-reflect and determine what it is that I need/want without being selfish. 
I certainly take responsibility and don't want to pin everything on my wife, it's not fair to put this all on her to make myself look like less of the bad guy.


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## Hopefull363

Your emotional connection with your wife is broken. Reading His Needs Her Needs might be a good place to start. It explains what needs aren't being met for both of you. If you are interested in keeping your family in tact and rebuilding a relationship with your wife you would greatly benefit from this book. your wife would also need to read it. Good luck to you. I hope you and your wife have the strength to rebuild. It will take both of you to do so. The easy road is to walk away. The hard road is to fight for whats right.


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## anchorwatch

whataquandry, 

Scrambled and the others have given you good advice and resources to start you along. Mine will be short. 

If you don't think your long term dissatisfaction and resulting behaviors have mutually affected the relationship exponentially, you ought to step way back and take another look. Since you are the one here, the focus is on your part in this dilemma and what you should have or could still do about it. 

Good luck.


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## turnera

whataquandry said:


> I have made friends with women and she's accused me of cheating many times over the years, *I have not strayed*. Recently I have made a connection with someone who shares similar goals and outlook on life and we have been *texting almost daily for about a month*.


Uh, yes, you _HAVE_.



whataquandry said:


> I'd rather be alone at this point.


And you're lying. You have no INTENTION of being alone. You want to leave to be with another woman. At least try to be honest with yourself and us.


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## turnera

whataquandry said:


> The harsh reality is that I believe I fell out of love for her a very long time ago


Bullshyte. This is Cheater Script 101, EVERY cheater says it, EVERY cheater rewrites history and convinces himself (and his betrayed wife) that he stopped loving her long ago. The truth is closer to 'I was ok with all this until I saw I could get a hot young woman to screw so now I haven't loved you for 10 years.'

blech


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## juno 42

turnera said:


> Bullshyte. This is Cheater Script 101, EVERY cheater says it, EVERY cheater rewrites history and convinces himself (and his betrayed wife) that he stopped loving her long ago. The truth is closer to 'I was ok with all this until I saw I could get a hot young woman to screw so now I haven't loved you for 10 years.'
> 
> blech


Seriously?? I just got the 'I fell out of love with you a long time ago' speech. It comes from the cheaters handbook??? Great. Thanks for the heads up.


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## highwood

Yes, the cheaters handbook...

I care about you
I love you but not in love with you
She/he is only a friend
I didn't mean to hurt you
I had no choice but to cheat, etc. etc. etc. etc.

My fav is the I didn't mean to hurt you...like somehow that is so comforting and reassuring. It is such an arrogant thing to say to someone and also comes across as I am up here and you are down there.


I so wish I had this site back on DD#1? Honestly I think it would have helped me immensely.


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## highwood

I like the fact that they always find someone wonderful that likes everything that they like, we have so much in common, they are perfect, LOL!!!...give it 5 years buddy and you will see.

You do realize that most relationships that start as affairs only have a 3% chance of working out...so best of luck to you!


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## turnera

juno 42 said:


> Seriously?? I just got the 'I fell out of love with you a long time ago' speech. It comes from the cheaters handbook??? Great. Thanks for the heads up.


Yep, that is #2 most common, right after 'I love you but I'm not in love with you.'


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## clipclop2

Please do follow through cutting her off. This will seem rash but change your cell number and email address. People often try to cut the OM/OW off but fail because they miss them and how good it felt talking with them. This becomes support for why they need to get out of their marriage. One slip up and they are in deeper than before the attempt.

Also. Tell your wife about her.

She has a right to know and a right to help you stay on the straight and narrow with no contact. She should have all your passwords, etc. And vice versa.

I told my husband when I was strongly tempted and it helped me. 

It also provides the strongest message that can be delivered that the marriage is in trouble. With that knowledge she may attempt to resolve your complaints. 

Don't rewrite history. Every cheater does it. Good times are forgotten. Positives that still exist are ignored. Lots of black and white talk about what he/she does/doesn't do and why the marriage is over.

If you had come here before there was another woman our tone would be different. The other woman just made you into a poor witness and a poor judge of the situation.

We can't fully trust what you say because your brain has tasted the poison of an emotional connection to another man/woman. You probably think we are crazy and that you are very self aware, etc. But look at it this way - you tried to get us to buy the bull about the other women not being interested and have is believe that you weren't cheating just because it wasn't physical. You wanted to believe that bull yourself

There is more bull under the surface that needs to be dispelled

If you go to IC without talking to your wife openly and honestly, you will use IC to build you your case for divorce without giving your wife chance. Surely you owe her more than that.


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## whataquandry

This all brutally honest and helpful feedback. I certainly don't take offense because I own my behavior as awful as it is right now. 
I'm aware that I'm deluding myself and family but can't stop it either. 
I'm being a coward by not disclosing this to my wife and have a history of walking away from things when they get unbearable or ugly. My wife often jokes (i think), that she's surprised we're still married considering I'm always looking for the next best thing in other areas of my life. 

I'm really struggling with what to do next. I'm not ready for a conversation with my wife because I'm in the throes of this EA and don't have my head on straight. 

grrrr. this is really messing with my head and affecting everything.


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## turnera

Think about what your wife is going to tell your kids about you if you go forward with the adultery. Think about their respect for you plummeting to NOTHING.


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## highwood

turnera said:


> Think about what your wife is going to tell your kids about you if you go forward with the adultery. Think about their respect for you plummeting to NOTHING.


I agree with this...that is what happened after I caught H six months after DD#1 still in contact with his EA. I told our adult son who was 22 at the time what his dad was up to. H was highly embarrassed and I think two years later is still humiliated by what he did especially in front of our son. I know I would die myself if my son knew I did that crap.

Funny thing is H still to this day thinks it was wrong for me to tell our son...too friggin bad! Sorry you lost that right when you continued for 6 months lying to me that nothing was going on but in reality there was.


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## ScrambledEggs

whataquandry said:


> This all brutally honest and helpful feedback. I certainly don't take offense because I own my behavior as awful as it is right now.
> I'm aware that I'm deluding myself and family but can't stop it either.
> I'm being a coward by not disclosing this to my wife and have a history of walking away from things when they get unbearable or ugly. My wife often jokes (i think), that she's surprised we're still married considering I'm always looking for the next best thing in other areas of my life.
> 
> I'm really struggling with what to do next. I'm not ready for a conversation with my wife because I'm in the throes of this EA and don't have my head on straight.
> 
> grrrr. this is really messing with my head and affecting everything.


My advice would be to cut all contact with the OW. You don't have to be nasty but make her understand that if your marriage is not going to work it has to be it can't work, not because you see something better. She ought to respect that. If not, you probably are getting into something nasty anyway. After about a month with no contact with the OW, your head should have cleared and you can look at it more objectively. 

Don't wait until then to start working on the marriage.

Part of the problem with fixing a marriage like this is that the spouse that wants change (you) is put in the position of setting and enforcing boundaries to change the other spouses behavior. This can be a lot of work. You probably fear, and rightly so, that your wife will only change as much as you drive her to. But you need a healthy marriage where your work goes into making the marriage great, not just barely making the cut. It is fair to refuse to exhaust yourself pushing your spouse to behave in a manner that supports the basic expectations of marriage. 

I happen to think that a healthy lifestyle is an appropriate expectation as the consequences of abusing your health has huge implications in money, energy, sex drive, freedom, happiness, and self image. You should make her understand that it is important, but if you have to push her to exercise, criticize her food choices, and uncover her snack hordes to achieve it, you will both resent each other over it.

You need to make her understand that you want and need a healthy, happy, motivated spouse, who is as about as into emotional and physical intimacy as you are. This can be a tough bit of work, but in a way you have to judge your limits on your energy and avoid becoming a parent.

The breaking point in my marriage was realizing that I no longer had the energy to set limits and police her steamy emotional and occasionally physical EA's. Could the marriage go on with me being the FBI, NSA, and CIA of our marriage? Yes, but does that work for me? No.


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## SamuraiJack

Thor said:


> I suggest a book called "Too good to leave, too bad to stay". It provides a process for evaluating how happy you might be if you stay vs how happy you might be if you leave.


If you have ANY hope of making this work out, do NOT read this book. It was written at the height of the divorce craze and will push you over into the "screw it" side of the fence. I have never seen this book do anything but convince somebody to get divorced.


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## whataquandry

SamuraiJack said:


> If you have ANY hope of making this work out, do NOT read this book. It was written at the height of the divorce craze and will push you over into the "screw it" side of the fence. I have never seen this book do anything but convince somebody to get divorced.


Too late, I started reading it and answering the questions and you're right it's pushing me to the 'screw it' side.


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## turnera

Color me surprised.


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## whataquandry

Update - today I've reached out to a couple of therapists to begin my journey towards getting my direction. Hopefully I can click with one of them and get on the right path. 
I realize that I should be talking through this with my wife but I really need to get my bearings straight before I can be honest with her.


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## turnera

Can't you at least tell her you're not happy? You owe her that much, to give her an opportunity to look at herself.


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## whataquandry

turnera said:


> Can't you at least tell her you're not happy? You owe her that much, to give her an opportunity to look at herself.


I can tell she knows but you're right she needs to hear it directly from me. I'm leaving for a business trip and it wouldn't be fair to have that conversation now and leave for a week. I'll have some alone time to sort things out and if the timing is right I can meet with a counselor/therapist before I take off.


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## turnera

Actually, telling her while she has a week to think about it is an EXCELLENT time to do it. It lets you both be apart from each other long enough to not act out in emotion and gives her plenty of time to take a long hard look at her contributions to the problems.


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## Thor

whataquandry said:


> Too late, I started reading it and answering the questions and you're right it's pushing me to the 'screw it' side.


I've read it 3 times. First time was Leave, second time was Stay, third time was Stay if she will participate in saving the marriage.


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## Alpha

This is a classic thread. You really are in a quandary. 

I was on the "Receiving" end so you know, but my questions / advice may not reflect that.

1. Have you ever considered how much financial damage this would cost you? 

2. Don't ever come clean with your wife and tell her that you've been exchanging messages and expressing emotions with another woman even if you want to end your marriage.

3. Don't tell her your dissatisfaction before your out of town trip, she will think you are going to cheat on her while you travel. 

4. Are your children going to hate you if you bail out on Mom? 

5. If your wife lost weight and got sexy again, do you think you will fall back in love with her?

6. If you were to bail out on your wife, are you the type that needs to settle down and marry again, or do you plan to avoid long term relationships and enjoy the company of different women?


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## Alpha

turnera said:


> Actually, telling her while she has a week to think about it is an EXCELLENT time to do it. It lets you both be apart from each other long enough to not act out in emotion and gives her plenty of time to take a long hard look at her contributions to the problems.


Nope, the worst time to do it. He will give her one week of hell and she will expect that he is having an affair while away.


----------



## Alpha

Do not listen to most of this advice. 



clipclop2 said:


> Please do follow through cutting her off. This will seem rash but change your cell number and email address. People often try to cut the OM/OW off but fail because they miss them and how good it felt talking with them. This becomes support for why they need to get out of their marriage. One slip up and they are in deeper than before the attempt. Change your number and cut contact with the other woman and don't use her to fuel your decisions. Make those on your own.
> 
> Also. Tell your wife about her. Never ever tell your wife about her lest you want to make your marriage even more miserable.
> 
> She has a right to know and a right to help you stay on the straight and narrow with no contact. She should have all your passwords, etc. And vice versa. No way.
> 
> I told my husband when I was strongly tempted and it helped me. May have helped her but surely screwed up her husband. Some things are better left in the closet.
> 
> It also provides the strongest message that can be delivered that the marriage is in trouble. With that knowledge she may attempt to resolve your complaints. No it doesn't. There are better ways to do it. This method is threatening. Shape up or I'm going to cheat on you with ......Stupid idea.
> 
> Don't rewrite history. Every cheater does it. Good times are forgotten. Positives that still exist are ignored. Lots of black and white talk about what he/she does/doesn't do and why the marriage is over.
> 
> If you had come here before there was another woman our tone would be different. The other woman just made you into a poor witness and a poor judge of the situation. So long as you have no feelings for the other woman, she may have just given you a reality check.
> 
> We can't fully trust what you say because your brain has tasted the poison of an emotional connection to another man/woman. You probably think we are crazy and that you are very self aware, etc. But look at it this way - you tried to get us to buy the bull about the other women not being interested and have is believe that you weren't cheating just because it wasn't physical. You wanted to believe that bull yourself
> 
> There is more bull under the surface that needs to be dispelled
> 
> If you go to IC without talking to your wife openly and honestly, you will use IC to build you your case for divorce without giving your wife chance. Surely you owe her more than that.Of course not, that's why it's called Individual Counseling. Counselors are there to guide you.


----------



## whataquandry

Alpha said:


> This is a classic thread. You really are in a quandary.
> 
> I was on the "Receiving" end so you know, but my questions / advice may not reflect that.
> 
> 1. Have you ever considered how much financial damage this would cost you?
> Yes, and it will be very costly. More long term impact than short term ( house, investments,etc.)
> 
> 2. Don't ever come clean with your wife and tell her that you've been exchanging messages and expressing emotions with another woman even if you want to end your marriage.
> I agree 100% at this point.
> 
> 3. Don't tell her your dissatisfaction before your out of town trip, she will think you are going to cheat on her while you travel.
> I'm not for the very reason you state. It'll just cause panic and concern that I'm off cheating for no reason.
> 
> 4. Are your children going to hate you if you bail out on Mom?
> I don't think so, I'm very active in their lives and always have been. They'll be sad for sure but if things do get to separation or divorce I fully intend on 50/50 custody
> 
> 5. If your wife lost weight and got sexy again, do you think you will fall back in love with her?
> Unfortunately no. That ship has sailed I'm afraid. I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out why.
> 
> 6. If you were to bail out on your wife, are you the type that needs to settle down and marry again, or do you plan to avoid long term relationships and enjoy the company of different women?


I do not plan on marrying again. I don't think it suits me and I've been living a lie for a long time.


----------



## Alpha

If you're ready to pay, be active with your boys and get 50/50, and don't believe that your EA is going to be your future, then it's time to move on. Like you said, marriage doesn't suit you and it's not for everyone. 

I too have no intentions of marrying ever again. What's the point to be honest? You already have your sons, so why start again and put yourself in grave financial risk? Why settle for a sex life that will dwindle once a ring comes on?

At this point in life, you can do whatever you want.


----------



## VFW

Looks like you are making progress. Some of this has been covered, but worth reiterating for others in your situation.

1. Cut communication with OW, you need to finish one relationship before you start another.

2. You control your feelings and no one else. They can't make you feel happy, sad, loved or unloved. IC should help with this perspective.

3. You don't have to tell wife today, but bad news never gets better with age. Don't make excuses, be honest and straight forward with her, she deserve that much. 

4. Regardless if you stay or go, you need a plan. The more you two can agree on a plan, the better it will be for the family as a whole. Best of luck.


----------



## whataquandry

I've been away from home this week so lot's of alone time. I've had limited contact with EA partner and last night I cut things off. I'm set up for a meeting on Friday with a therapist which hopefully will allow me to process things and get my $hit together. 

Quite honestly, I'm now thinking very unemotionally and have been processing through what a post separation life would look like for my family. I've been working through finances, 50/50 custody, alimony, child support, where to live, etc...

If nothing else this EA has caused me to self reflect significantly again however this time I"m intending on getting to root cause and dealing with it.

Not sure if I mentioned this in my original post but I've had at least 4 EA's over the course of my marriage the last few have been much closer together in the past 5 years. Clearly there is a problem where I'm looking for something that I'm not getting.

Thanks for the support, this is not easy and will only become more difficult (I think) as things process.


----------



## turnera

whataquandry said:


> I've had at least 4 EA's over the course of my marriage the last few have been much closer together in the past 5 years. Clearly there is a problem where I'm looking for something that I'm not getting.


No, the problem is that you were raised to believe that people are to be USED for your own satisfaction, including your own wife and kids.

This isn't a case of you picking the wrong partner. It's a case of you believing you have a right to your happiness no matter who you run over in that pursuit. Does your mom know you do this?


----------



## whataquandry

turnera said:


> No, the problem is that you were raised to believe that people are to be USED for your own satisfaction, including your own wife and kids.
> 
> This isn't a case of you picking the wrong partner. It's a case of you believing you have a right to your happiness no matter who you run over in that pursuit. Does your mom know you do this?


That's an interesting perspective, which makes me think maybe there is something to those statements. My parents divorced when I was 5, biological dad was out of the picture until I was 15 and I reached out to him. We had an on and off relationship that ended once my first was born. He truly turned out as selfish as I had perceived. Mom remarried out of desperation 2 years later and stayed with a cold and absentee person and divorced again after all of the children were out of the house. Maybe there is something subconsciously going on with me based on what I saw/experienced?

This has been my biggest fear in getting married in the first place. I did not want to repeat the cycle of my parents. Regardless of what happens I will remain in my children's life, there is nothing that would be stop me from being there for them just as I am today. 

I've described myself as selfish for a long time, maybe it's my true colors showing through. I have many friends but nobody I would consider very close, certainly nobody who knows me like a best friend. Do I have a commitment phobia? Can I not form a true bond with others? Am I conditioned to not expose myself out of fear? 

Good stuff to work out in therapy I guess.


----------



## LongWalk

You say you have no desire for your wife at all. Does she disgust you?

If you invite her to take a bath or shower together and caress her, would she desire you? Could open yourself up to her?

If she feels attractive, she may be motivated to work out and eat better? Instead of nagging her about her gut, why not tell her how she sexy is. A stick is a poor motivator. Once someone's self esteem is trashed, why should they care about how they look?


----------



## whataquandry

LongWalk said:


> You say you have no desire for your wife at all. Does she disgust you?
> 
> If you invite her to take a bath or shower together and caress her, would she desire you? Could open yourself up to her?
> 
> If she feels attractive, she may be motivated to work out and eat better? Instead of nagging her about her gut, why not tell her how she sexy is. A stick is a poor motivator. Once someone's self esteem is trashed, why should they care about how they look?


Disgust is kind of strong, it would be more like not interested or turned off. 
I've never been able to be that intimate with anyone, it would be very difficult for me to open up.:scratchhead:
I don't berate her, however I don't compliment her either. I'd be lying if I said she looked sexy.
This just sucks, it's exhausting emotionally.


----------



## happy as a clam

whataquandry said:


> I think the best course of action is to talk with my wife about our relationship and let her know just how unhappy I am.


I agree. And you should also tell her you have been texting with and developing an emotional attachment with another woman for more than a month, so she realizes just how serious this is and what she's up against.


----------



## anchorwatch

Do you think you're attitude in the marriage and behaviours towards her ovet the course of the marriage have not been detrimental to her self-esteem?


----------



## whataquandry

anchorwatch said:


> Do you think you're attitude in the marriage and behaviours towards her ovet the course of the marriage have not been detrimental to her self-esteem?


Perhaps for the last 3-5 years that may be possible. Prior to that I was as committed as I could be. I may not be as affectionate or intimate as other folks, but my behavior and actions were no different throughout our marriage. 

When we met she had low self esteem, if anything that increased over the years. She started working part time about 4 years ago and that has been wonderful for her.


----------



## whataquandry

I just returned from my trip and have had no contact with the EA partner. The fog is lifting and I'm much less short with my wife than over the past several weeks. However, I'm still feeling annoyed/aggravated by her general presence and probably will until I'm able to express my overall frustration with our current state. Tomorrow will be my first IC session, I'm anxious to get things underway so I can understand what I want and discuss this with my wife. 

At this point I'm thinking I'm going through a MLC and am not emotionally mature enough to handle it. I've walked away from lots of things throughout life without worrying about the impact. I realize that walking away now will blow up my family and have all sorts of negative fallout. This latest EA has just triggered something that finally is moving me to deal with things I probably should have dealt with already.


----------



## whataquandry

I went to my IC meeting this week and found out a few interesting things. Firstly, it felt so good to be able to talk with someone and express the frustration and emotional roller coaster I've been on for a while. The second and more interesting thing was towards the end of our discussion she suggested I read "Codependent No More". I thought I was more of a narcissist, not codependent but after going through some past experiences it kind of made sense. 
The journey continues....


----------



## turnera

Sounds about right. Good progress.


----------



## Mr Blunt

If nobody has told you this before you need to know this.

*
If you abandon your children you will damage them at lest temporarily and maybe permanently*


You can pacify yourself with saying how you are going to be involved with their life 50/50 and all those weak excuses but you will damage your children. This is not a theory; I have been observing this in several cases and currently with my sister’s children. 

You have been introspective and have admitted some facts about yourself and that is a very good start. However, unless you take ACTION to get better all you will be doing is pacifying yourself temporarily.

*Your correct actions and changing is the only thing that will get you better.*


----------



## whataquandry

Mr Blunt said:


> If nobody has told you this before you need to know this.
> 
> *
> If you abandon your children you will damage them at lest temporarily and maybe permanently*
> 
> 
> You can pacify yourself with saying how you are going to be involved with their life 50/50 and all those weak excuses but you will damage your children. This is not a theory; I have been observing this in several cases and currently with my sister’s children.
> 
> You have been introspective and have admitted some facts about yourself and that is a very good start. However, unless you take ACTION to get better all you will be doing is pacifying yourself temporarily.
> 
> *Your correct actions and changing is the only thing that will get you better.*


Mr Blunt, there is a huge difference in abandonment and 50/50. I'm not kidding myself in that 50/50 is less than I have now, but it's far from zero which is what I'd equate abandonment to. This is a ludicrous statement to make. 
Will my leaving impact them, absolutely without a doubt it will. I know this going into any decisions being made. In fact this is why I've been waffling for 5 years or more. It's exhausting. 

My ACTION is to work on me and how I feel. That result may or may not allow for this marriage to be fixed.


----------



## changedbeliefs

Man, there are some very hurt, vindictive people here...


----------



## Alpha

Yeah Blunt is over reacting here. My wife was the one who walked. She blew up the family but one thing I can say is that I'm more involved with my children now than I ever have in all 13 years of marriage. Yours are old enough too. 

I also don't suggest ever telling your wife about your past EAs as several have suggested here. Work it out yourself.


----------



## whataquandry

Unless I'm told otherwise in therapy, I agree there is no redeeming value to bringing up EA's at this point. Especially if there is no chance at reconciling. If there is reconciliation on the path, then it's probably best to be completely transparent and get everything on the table. I'm not at that fork in the road just yet so it's too soon to decide.

Alpha, sorry you had to go through that. I guess there is upside though because you are closer with your children now.


----------



## whataquandry

It's been a few weeks and lots have transpired. I've had about 5 IC sessions and have discussed my feelings with my wife. She's shocked, hurt and confused which is not surprising. Personally I have a couple of things going on with my abilities to communicate and assert my needs which has led me to this point and I'm working through those. Unfortunately, I'm past the point of no return with my feelings on this marriage and have not agreed to MC which was suggested by W. It's sad, but I don't even want to try to make it work, even with children involved. 
To be clear there is no OW, that was cut off as promised last month. I'm working through this solo, there will be no 3rd parties involved other than therapists or other professionals.


----------



## turnera

I'm glad you were honest. Somewhat.


----------



## Evinrude58

whataquandry said:


> The harsh reality is that I believe I fell out of love for her a very long time ago, however being busy with the children and associated activities allowed (for me anyway) an easy way to be distracted from working on our relationship.
> 
> Maybe I'll try IC first by myself to talk through my issues with someone who can listen and guide impartially.


That's what every unfaithful spouse in history ever said. Total b.s.
You fell out of love when you gave your emotions and thoughts to someone else. It's on you partner, whether you can see it or not. Think about when you got on this site. Was it before or after you started texting the other woman? Swapped sexy pics with her? Uh huh, I thought so.


----------



## Evinrude58

I wrote the above without reading all of it. I'm impressed with what you've done. It's the right thing. I'm pissed about what my wife is doing and displacing my anger on you......
I truly hope the best for you and your wife. 
Good luck, Jbj


----------



## lenzi

Mr Blunt said:


> If nobody has told you this before you need to know this.
> 
> *
> If you abandon your children you will damage them at lest temporarily and maybe permanently*
> 
> 
> You can pacify yourself with saying how you are going to be involved with their life 50/50 and all those weak excuses but you will damage your children. This is not a theory; I have been observing this in several cases and currently with my sister’s children.
> 
> You have been introspective and have admitted some facts about yourself and that is a very good start. However, unless you take ACTION to get better all you will be doing is pacifying yourself temporarily.
> 
> *Your correct actions and changing is the only thing that will get you better.*


Divorce causes damage to children, that's nothing new.

Telling the guy he's abandoning his kids because he wants out is completely out of line and unwarranted.

Newsflash. People get divorced. All the time. When there are kids around they're going to be affected, some more than others depending on their age, how the divorce is handled, and their own temperament and emotional stability.

To suggest the guy stay in a bad marriage just for the kids and to further cloud things up by suggesting he's abandoning them is just ridiculously bad advice.


----------



## whataquandry

Evinrude58 said:


> I wrote the above without reading all of it. I'm impressed with what you've done. It's the right thing. I'm pissed about what my wife is doing and displacing my anger on you......
> I truly hope the best for you and your wife.
> Good luck, Jbj


Dude, I read your story too and can see why you'd be pissed. Sorry you're going through this, I hope the best for you too.


----------



## whataquandry

lenzi said:


> Divorce causes damage to children, that's nothing new.
> 
> Telling the guy he's abandoning his kids because he wants out is completely out of line and unwarranted.
> 
> Newsflash. People get divorced. All the time. When there are kids around they're going to be affected, some more than others depending on their age, how the divorce is handled, and their own temperament and emotional stability.
> 
> To suggest the guy stay in a bad marriage just for the kids and to further cloud things up by suggesting he's abandoning them is just ridiculously bad advice.


After 4 IC sessions, I've finally accepted the fact that I'm not abandoning my children. W and I will act like adults who care about the best interest of OUR children, I"m not divorcing them I'm divorcing her. Sure it'll suck, but in the long run they'll be okay. I don't miss many life events now (big or small), I won't start missing them just because I'm not living under the same roof.


----------



## turnera

whataquandry said:


> Sure it'll suck, but in the long run they'll be okay.


Yeah. Sure they will. smh


----------



## whataquandry

turnera said:


> Yeah. Sure they will. smh


So every nail needs a hammer? Are there no success stories ever? I realize there are a lot of hurt souls here but is everyone a cynic?


----------



## turnera

Go to the library, look at the section in psychology on the effects of divorce. Find the ones that say how good kids turn out. Count them. Find the ones that discuss all the problems kids grow up with after divorce. Count them.

'nough said.

When you start having kids, you pick up a responsibility to stop putting yourself first. You ignored that responsibility. You didn't even TRY to fix your marriage. You just got bored, didn't want to do any work, so you're leaving so you can get your next 'high' with a hot PYT. So what if the kids' home is torn apart, at least you're happy, and that's what really matters, right?

But guess what: You're going to get bored with THAT woman, too. It's in our DNA to get bored with a long-term partner; that's when you're supposed to step up and do some actual WORK to keep the marriage fulfilling, fun, and strong.


----------



## mishu143

Im going through divorce myself but as a betrayed spouse. I was dealt a lot of crap when married but what pushed me to divorce was the cheating. Not acceptable. 

I felt a lot of guilt of the divorce for my kids. I am the product of divorce. 

And as much as I love turnera and her advice, I think this last post may have been a bit harsh. 

YES she is correct that not many kids fair well with divorce. BUT many kids also do extremely bad being brought up in an unstable home with unstable parents and/or unstable marriage. 

I think it sucks for your kids that you cheated and still decided your wife wasn't worth the try. You married her. You chose to cheat. You made those choices. It doesn't matter how unhappy you were, you should have said something or left. NOT CHEATED. that is a betrayal no matter how you slice it. 

The only advice I can give at this point is to behave as adults. Show your kids you will do all you can for them as co-parents. No matter what, you are tied to their mother FOR LIFE!!! Whoever says it is only until they reach 18 years of age is full of sh*t. You never stop being a parent. At least a good parent never stops being a parent. If your kids become a negative statistic that all lies in your hands. The parents have everything to do with a childs upbringing. How you handle the situation will make all the difference. 

Again bad kids don't come from divorce, they come from bad parents/situations. 

I am living proof of being raised by a single divorced mother who turned out okay. It was all thanks to my mother being the beast of a woman she is. For the time she took to work hard and provide all by herself. My dad was around when he felt like being there. Financially he was never around. My mother never spoke ill of him (even though he was a POS) and he bashed her every chance he got.... guess who I stuck by? My mother. When I was of age she sat me down and told me her story. And all the poop my father spewed only made me see what an even bigger POS he was. I still love him, but in my eyes he was a selfish POS. 

It all lies in how you handle this. Good Luck


----------



## turnera

fwiw, I'm not against divorce. I'm against divorce when one just decides he doesn't like his marriage any more.


----------



## Abc123wife

whataquandry said:


> After 4 IC sessions, I've finally accepted the fact that I'm not abandoning my children. W and I will act like adults who care about the best interest of OUR children, I"m not divorcing them I'm divorcing her. Sure it'll suck, but in the long run they'll be okay. I don't miss many life events now (big or small), I won't start missing them just because I'm not living under the same roof.


Can you specify what led you to not being willing to even try MC? What reasons did you give your wife for divorcing her without wanting to allow for any efforts to save the marriage? Going forth with a divorce when kids are involved is a big deal and usually results from big issues (infidelity, addictions, years of lack of affection, etc). Divorce usually occurs only after every last effort has been put forth to turn things around. You seem to just want to toss your marriage away because maybe you're bored or you got excited about the potential of a new relationship, if not with this particular OW you were texting but maybe another one in the future.

You indicate you just have no desire for your wife now, but do you think that your texting of that OW had some effect on your desire for your old dumpy wife? The realization that there is a potential for other newer/fresher/different/more exciting partners out there seems to have led to a sudden need for divorce without allowing for any MC or any desire to put out any effort to work with your wife. You stopped the texting with the OW, but the seed for the idea of a new more exciting relationship seems to have been planted.


----------



## whataquandry

Abc123wife said:


> Can you specify what led you to not being willing to even try MC? What reasons did you give your wife for divorcing her without wanting to allow for any efforts to save the marriage? Going forth with a divorce when kids are involved is a big deal and usually results from big issues (infidelity, addictions, years of lack of affection, etc). Divorce usually occurs only after every last effort has been put forth to turn things around. You seem to just want to toss your marriage away because maybe you're bored or you got excited about the potential of a new relationship, if not with this particular OW you were texting but maybe another one in the future.
> 
> You indicate you just have no desire for your wife now, but do you think that your texting of that OW had some effect on your desire for your old dumpy wife? The realization that there is a potential for other newer/fresher/different/more exciting partners out there seems to have led to a sudden need for divorce without allowing for any MC or any desire to put out any effort to work with your wife. You stopped the texting with the OW, but the seed for the idea of a new more exciting relationship seems to have been planted.


The primary reason is that we've been without intimacy for many years and I'm simply done. Yes I've had EA's and I'm certainly at fault and I own that. I also regret not speaking about my needs for intimacy long ago, but that is in the past. I've made a decision and I'm moving forward and taking a huge risk.

I think the last EA was the catalyst that got me rolling in this direction. When we were discussing the fact that I was married but unhappy she asked why I stayed so long. When I said it was for the kids and I would be waiting until they were both in college, she said "are you really going to continue playing along and being miserable for 6 more years?" That got me really thinking about how unhappy I am and questioning how I would want to be like this for that long. Life is too short and you should enjoy every minute. 

I take the blame for not being vocal long ago, I also realize that may not have changed anything but it would have at least been an opportunity to try. Now with the help of therapy and deep introspection, I'm consciously deciding to end things without any more investment. It's a unilateral decision and probably unfair, but I really don't want to waffle or string W along if my heart is not in for reconciling.


----------



## turnera

I hope you're at LEAST paying for 6 more years of therapy for your kids.


----------



## whataquandry

turnera said:


> I hope you're at LEAST paying for 6 more years of therapy for your kids.


turnera, I don't know your story or what your reasons are to have such a negative outlook, but I hope you are in therapy yourself.


----------



## turnera

Have been all my life. Because my dad cheated and then left us.


----------



## Abc123wife

whataquandry said:


> The primary reason is that we've been without intimacy for many years and I'm simply done. Yes I've had EA's and I'm certainly at fault and I own that. I also regret not speaking about my needs for intimacy long ago, but that is in the past. I've made a decision and I'm moving forward and taking a huge risk.


I didn't remember you mentioning the years without intimacy in your earlier posts. But you did mention your lack of physical desire for your wife who had gained weight. So has the lack if intimacy for years been her choice or has it been your lack of initiating for a long time now due to lack of desire for her? Have you never talked about the sexless state of your marriage or your needs for intimacy with your wife? And now you say EAs, as in more than this most recent one? How long have these EAs gone on? Is your wife aware of any of these EAs? Before divorcing her, do you plan to let her know about your infidelity during the marriage so she at least can have a more complete and honest understanding of all the things that brought the marriage to an end?


----------



## whataquandry

turnera said:


> Have been all my life. Because my dad cheated and then left us.


:lol: I guess you do have a sense of humor after all!


----------



## whataquandry

Abc123wife said:


> I didn't remember you mentioning the years without intimacy in your earlier posts. But you did mention your lack of physical desire for your wife who had gained weight. So has the lack if intimacy for years been her choice or has it been your lack of initiating for a long time now due to lack of desire for her? Have you never talked about the sexless state of your marriage or your needs for intimacy with your wife? And now you say EAs, as in more than this most recent one? How long have these EAs gone on? Is your wife aware of any of these EAs? Before divorcing her, do you plan to let her know about your infidelity during the marriage so she at least can have a more complete and honest understanding of all the things that brought the marriage to an end?


It's my lack of desire and the EA's are over a span of the last 5-6 years. She is not aware of these EA's and I don't plan on exposing them either. I can't see any upside to telling her, only downside. I think it would add insult to injury and there is enough emotional stuff to deal with already. Some things are best left unsaid. 
If reconciliation were to take place, these EA's would have to be put out there. 

I'm sure most would disagree with my decision to keep silent about the EA's, but based on our relationship and my discussions with my IC it's the path I'm choosing.


----------



## turnera

whataquandry said:


> :lol: I guess you do have a sense of humor after all!


I'm glad you can have a laugh over the fact that my life has been hell and the #1 cause of it is because my dad abandoned us because he was selfish and wanted more than my mom.

I'm glad you're divorcing. Your wife can have a chance at marrying someone who will be better for her.


----------



## Thor

whataquandry said:


> It's my lack of desire and the EA's are over a span of the last 5-6 years. She is not aware of these EA's and I don't plan on exposing them either. I can't see any upside to telling her, only downside. I think it would add insult to injury and there is enough emotional stuff to deal with already. Some things are best left unsaid.
> If reconciliation were to take place, these EA's would have to be put out there.
> 
> I'm sure most would disagree with my decision to keep silent about the EA's, but based on our relationship and my discussions with my IC it's the path I'm choosing.


This is a tough decision and a controversial one. I bet your wife is going to ask you at some point if there is another woman, and she'll ask if you cheated. So be ready for those questions.

If you are determined to divorce, I can see you logic that it would just do more harm to her if you told her about the EAs. The caveat I would add in is if she suspects something and/or has asked about odd events. For me, I would want to know the truth because I have strong suspicions and evidence of my wife having affair(s). But if I had no clue, then perhaps it would be better not to know about affairs if she decided to divorce me.


----------



## whataquandry

turnera said:


> I'm glad you can have a laugh over the fact that my life has been hell and the #1 cause of it is because my dad abandoned us because he was selfish and wanted more than my mom.
> 
> I'm glad you're divorcing. Your wife can have a chance at marrying someone who will be better for her.


Turnera, I apologize for being insensitive but I honestly thought you were being sarcastic.


----------



## whataquandry

Thor said:


> This is a tough decision and a controversial one. I bet your wife is going to ask you at some point if there is another woman, and she'll ask if you cheated. So be ready for those questions.
> 
> If you are determined to divorce, I can see you logic that it would just do more harm to her if you told her about the EAs. The caveat I would add in is if she suspects something and/or has asked about odd events. For me, I would want to know the truth because I have strong suspicions and evidence of my wife having affair(s). But if I had no clue, then perhaps it would be better not to know about affairs if she decided to divorce me.


Ironically she accused me many times during the first 10-12 years of our marriage, but she's not said anything about cheating or affairs in at least 8 years. I truly believe she is unaware which is why I don't want to further damage her self esteem by throwing that in the mix.


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## LongWalk

Has she talked about meeting your needs?

Has she tried to initiate sex?

Have you tried to go a date?

How over weight is she? Her height?

Does your wife bore you? Can you become more interesting yourself?


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## Abc123wife

whataquandry said:


> It's my lack of desire and the EA's are over a span of the last 5-6 years. She is not aware of these EA's and I don't plan on exposing them either. I can't see any upside to telling her, only downside. I think it would add insult to injury and there is enough emotional stuff to deal with already. Some things are best left unsaid.
> If reconciliation were to take place, these EA's would have to be put out there.
> 
> I'm sure most would disagree with my decision to keep silent about the EA's, but based on our relationship and my discussions with my IC it's the path I'm choosing.


Did your wife ever ask why you had a lack of desire for intimacy? Were you rejecting her at times? 

Where did you know your affair partners from? The last one you said you never met in person but you had been texting for at least a month. Were you on some dating site?


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## whataquandry

LongWalk said:


> Has she talked about meeting your needs?
> 
> Has she tried to initiate sex?
> 
> Have you tried to go a date?
> 
> How over weight is she? Her height?
> 
> Does your wife bore you? Can you become more interesting yourself?


I spoke about these things in therapy. Basically I gave up quite a while ago on dating and intimacy and I can't find my way back. Weight, height are somewhat irrelevant now as those are physical traits but what is gone is the emotional interest. 
Many will see me as selfish for not trying to get it back, but this is where I'm at.


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## whataquandry

Abc123wife said:


> Did your wife ever ask why you had a lack of desire for intimacy? Were you rejecting her at times?
> 
> Where did you know your affair partners from? The last one you said you never met in person but you had been texting for at least a month. Were you on some dating site?


Yes, and I wasn't truthful which is my fault. 

The EA's were either co-workers or people I met socially at events or shared common interests with and would see them often ( gym, team sports, etc..)

The last EA was completely random, believe it or not it was a wrong number and we just hit it off.


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## Abc123wife

whataquandry said:


> Yes, and I wasn't truthful which is my fault.
> 
> The EA's were either co-workers or people I met socially at events or shared common interests with and would see them often ( gym, team sports, etc..)
> 
> The last EA was completely random, believe it or not it was a wrong number and we just hit it off.


So you were withholding sex from your wife and not telling her it was because she gained weight and were having multiple affairs? Now you are divorcing and still leaving your wife in the dark?


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## clipclop2

A month is not enough to get the OW out of your system.

You won't do MC because you are afraid to face what,YOU have contributed to all of this.

Insult to injury is rich.

You cheated repeatedly but you are going to let her take the fall.

You still are an avoidant little man, aren't you.

Not impressed one bit.

You are deceiving yourself so you can further deceive her and your kids.


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## whataquandry

clipclop2 said:


> A month is not enough to get the OW out of your system.
> 
> You won't do MC because you are afraid to face what,YOU have contributed to all of this.
> 
> Insult to injury is rich.


Correct, if I go to MC that means full disclosure and I'm dedicated to reconciliation. I'm checked out at this point and in my current mode I am not ready to work toward reconciliation. My reasons are mine to own regardless of what others may think.


> You cheated repeatedly but you are going to let her take the fall.
> 
> You still are an avoidant little man, aren't you.


Being conflict avoidant is what got me here and in this situation. I'm finally addressing things.



> Not impressed one bit.
> 
> You are deceiving yourself so you can further deceive her and your kids.


I'm not impressing you, that's okay with me. I don't need your validation.


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## whataquandry

Abc123wife said:


> So you were withholding sex from your wife and not telling her it was because she gained weight and were having multiple affairs? Now you are divorcing and still leaving your wife in the dark?


To be clear, weight gain is not the reason. The reasons are many but primarily I would say the slide down the slippery slope began when we were drifting apart emotionally. Busy life, busy kids and an me being uncommunicative and conflict avoidant were contributing factors.


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## clipclop2

you or not adressing a thing. You're running away!


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