# The emotional roller coaster



## TheGoodGuy

OK, first post. Here's the short version:

Married close to 9 years. 1 daughter age 7 and one stepson age 13 (from her first marriage). 3 weeks ago gave me the whole ILYBINILWY speech. Told me she's never been attracted to me. Over the last three weeks has completely detached herself from me and started going out to bars with her male boss from work (around the same age as us, who just found out that his wife has been cheating on him for 6 months). Staying out very late after work, not coming home to help me with the kids, etc. I tried to ask if she would go to counseling with me but she refused. 

I started digging and found the emotional affair. Called it out. Then yesterday she tells me that she's in love with the guy and slept with him on Saturday. We had already decided to try to work together on the divorce settlement to try to make it as clean as possible, she signed on Saturday and I paid the attorney to get the ball rolling today. I keep the house and daughter because I have a stable job and good income. BUT I'm the one stuck on the emotional roller coaster. I feel hurt, betrayed, angry, all the normal stuff. Rinse and repeat several times throughout the day. She gets to move right on along with this new guy. I want revenge on this guy so freakin' badly. (I know I know, he's not the homewrecker, my wife is, but I NEED to vent this to start getting over it). 



OK, if that was the short version, you guys are in for it with the long version:

Some history: I have been married before as well, right out of high school. Young love, all that, but I was raised to respect marriage and really thought I had found my soulmate. She used me to get out of her parents house. We had one son together, and not long after he was born she left me for another loser. One day when my son was 15 months old, they were moving some furniture from where she was staying to move into the new guy's house. They were not watching my son and he was accidentally run over by the truck and was killed. She married this fckr and is still with him today (12 years later), don't know how/why. So my first wife cheated on me and I still think of him as the guy who took everything (LITERALLY) away from me.

Fast forward to now. She says that she married me for the wrong reasons (I was so good to her young son, her parents loved me, etc) and never had the guts to say anything because I provided for them so well and was such a loving husband and father. Says she needs to figure out who she is and take care of herself for a while to prove that she can (but yet wants to be "roommates" with this OM after she gets her stuff out of this house????).

She has always been rather.. um.. not sure of the word here.. wishy washy? One month she wants to try this line of work, the next she doesn't. Has an eating disorder. I tried to help her through all of that, even after she lost her parents (long story, they were actually her biological grandparents who adopted her when her bio mother abandoned her), but she tells me she has not been consistently happy for several years. Counselors and meds don't seem to help, because she drinks too much. 

I thought we still had an above average relationship, but I know part of this divorce is on me. I did not keep myself in shape at all times and went back and forth with weight. The funny thing is I started getting back on the health wagon about 5 weeks ago (so she can't use the "you're only doing that because I said it was over" bit). Lost 18 pounds in the last three weeks. Probably 20 more to go.

Anyway, the D is rolling as of today. It is uncontested since she knows she messed up, and I'm glad to be getting my daughter to keep her in a stable home. I feel so bad for the kids since my daughter absolutely adores her brother, but since he is old enough to choose he will probably go to live with his dad (who has always fulfilled his visitation and he and I actually get along fairly well). But here I am, until the kids finish the school year, feeling like a single dad already. With both kids in after school activities, and her either working evening/weekend hours (she's been in a catering job since January), or going out with the OM, I am running myself ragged. But I am a responsible person and will make sure their needs are taken care of.

All I can see is that she's already moved on and is planning a life with this guy. I swear if she would just be single for a while and then find someone else, it wouldn't be this hard. ANYONE but HIM right? Why does it always have to be HIM?. I'm sitting here on the emotional roller coaster, taking care of kids while she's out living it up. Same feelings as last time. That this is the guy who stole everything from me. Once again, I know she is more of the homewrecker, but I'm so angry right now it hurts. Then comes the sadness, the regret, all of the usual stuff. The emotional roller coaster.



OK. I have said what I need to say. I have read this board for the last three weeks trying to make sense of it all, and I know there is a healthy combination of brutal, no nonsense responses and supportive ones as well. Both are welcome.


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## TheGoodGuy

Oh, and one more question. She told me last night that the OM told his wife about his feelings toward my STBX, and that his cheating W told him that she might want to try to reconcile. This scared my STBX and sent her into a crying fit and I said to her "Welcome to my world". Anyway, I'm not sure if his wife knows that he cheated with my wife. My divorce is already rolling, but should I make sure his W knows that they slept together? Does this buy me anything or am I just being petty?


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## TheGoodGuy

Sorry.. keep thinking of things that needed to be written. According to her (in her guilt or whatever), she has felt like this for a long time and has already gone through these feelings over the last few years. For me it's hard though. Yes my D is moving forward and I've been absolutely crapped on here, but I can't just turn off a switch for the woman I've loved for the last decade! I sincerely wish I could. I don't want her back since she betrayed me, but I still can't just flip a switch and move on like it feels like she's doing. I can't see myself dating for a while. Just going to focus on my daughter and see what's next.


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## smallsteps

I said the same thing - if he had moved out & then found someone or if the ow he left me for didn't work out & then he found another it would be easier to deal with- you know what - almost four months later I don't really care because bottom line - he cheated & left me. I had (& still have to from time to time although not as bad) to go through the roller coaster feelings. It does get easier & as you learn to deal with them it gets better.


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## Stretch

Sorry you are in this position. You seem like better than a "Good" guy.

The prevailing advice regarding the EA is to expose it to everyone. The posOM's family/wife, your WS workplace, etc. Next, starting working on you because no matter what you have to survive and thrive for your kid. That means start exercising to reduce stress, maybe start a hobby that you have wanted to, maybe volunteer, reengage friends for support. This all should be done to focus on you and your healing.

Probably get some counseling, it was super helpful for me.

Good luck friend, this really sucks, I know,
Stretch


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## TheGoodGuy

Thank you both. I actually did expose the affair today. I feel a little better after that step.


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## Toffer

TheGoodGuy said:


> Oh, and one more question. She told me last night that the OM told his wife about his feelings toward my STBX, and that his cheating W told him that she might want to try to reconcile. This scared my STBX and sent her into a crying fit and I said to her "Welcome to my world". Anyway, I'm not sure if his wife knows that he cheated with my wife. My divorce is already rolling, but should I make sure his W knows that they slept together? Does this buy me anything or am I just being petty?


Tell the OM's wife

If she doesn't already know that he's nailing your wife, she should. Wouldn't you want to know?


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## TheGoodGuy

Toffer said:


> Tell the OM's wife
> 
> If she doesn't already know that he's nailing your wife, she should. Wouldn't you want to know?


Done. She was somewhat surprised (said that her hubby was always honest with everything with her. right....) but all in all was not that upset sounding. Maybe she knows that because she had already screwed up that it was too late for that to mean anything?

Now the question is, do I talk with my wife about exposing the affair? She doesn't really have much family so I was only able to expose to 
A) the owner of the catering company (who I'm not sure he'll do anything) 
B) the OM's wife
C) Wifes much older sister who lives hundreds of miles away. We actually had a pretty good conversation and apparently my W had been lying to her about any affair going on. I'm not sure if she'll call my W to talk about that or not. They're not really that close. But she did pray for me over the phone which was nice.


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## TheGoodGuy

Ok already done. She was absolutely pissed. Still doesnt see this as an affair. She had already moved on and since telling me it was over thought that it was ok to jump right into another relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

Seriously, I need some advice here. She was absolutely livid when I told her that I had exposed the affair to her family (like I said she doesn't have that much family). I'm honestly terrified that she's going to start breaking my things when she's packing. I did the whole expose thing as a last ditch effort to stop the affair, not get on her bad side and make this even harder. God this hurts. 

I did not apologize, but I just don't want her impulsiveness to cause her to do stupid things and "get revenge" on me. Anything I can say to calm her down for the next couple of days while she's packing her stuff?


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## ReGroup

Don't do or try to fix anything.

The purpose of exposing is to make the affair as uncomfortable as possible. 

Affairs thrive in secrecy and exposing - you are bringing it out to light.

The hell if she's pissed. These are the consequences to such things.

Lie in the weeds; let everything thing play out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

Thank you. I am hoping her sister calls her and at least calms her down before she gets home. I will stay quiet.


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## TheGoodGuy

Shes not calmed down at all.. Promised kids she'd be home tonight to tuck them in. Breaking that promise because she's mad at me. So she does a ****ty thing, I call her out on it, and she goes to a bar instead of coming home to her kids. It's definitely over now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

Hang in there - let her settle down - of course shes pissed things didn't go the way she wanted or planned. Just take care of your kids & yourself.


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## TheGoodGuy

Just talked with another sister of hers. Really made me see that she was going to have to fall hard on this and learn a lesson. I doubt I'll be willing to R once she finds rock bottom since I'm trying to move on, but that's positive. Today seemed like another step forward for me, as hard as it was it's ending positively.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> Hang in there - let her settle down - of course shes pissed things didn't go the way she wanted or planned. Just take care of your kids & yourself.


Definitely, thank you. I'm so glad I found this community of good people to lean on in this upside down time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Definitely, thank you. I'm so glad I found this community of good people to lean on in this upside down time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why the hell are you paying for anything?

She wants a divorce?

SHE PAYS

Expose to everyone you know - including his work acquaintances.

Everyone.

Do not pay her to leave you.

Cut her off.


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## Stretch

Dude, you are doing great. Keep it up and be strong for yourseld and the kids.

She is realizing very quickly and very clearly that this is not a game. It costs money to live and go out all the time to be a hedonist. And there will be consequences to forsake your children.

I think I read on TAM about someone recording a WS during the move out so if she does break your stuff she will have to pay restitution at some point. The other approach which is common advice here and I think Conrad is a proponent of this, is just throw her out and don't let her back in. Put her crap at the front door and don't let her further into your dwelling.

Have you started working on yourself? Have you investigated counseling? Trust me GG, I only ask because they really help a lot.

Be strong,
Stretch


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## TheGoodGuy

She calmed down finally and looked at it from my point of view. I have already started improving myself. As I said in my huge rambling post, I started a regimen a couple of weeks before this all started. Today I am down 19 pounds. Also bi-weekly counseling already on the calendar starting next Thursday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

Pack her stuff up & let her come for it. The night mine moved out I started packing his stuff up & finished the next day. I didn't want it laying around reminding me of him.


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> She calmed down finally and looked at it from my point of view. I have already started improving myself. As I said in my huge rambling post, I started a regimen a couple of weeks before this all started. Today I am down 19 pounds. Also bi-weekly counseling already on the calendar starting next Thursday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not sure what you mean here.

Looked at "what" from your point of view?


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## TheGoodGuy

At why I exposed the affair. What she doesn't consider an affair. It doesn't matter though, this is definitely a done deal if I had any doubt before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> At why I exposed the affair. What she doesn't consider an affair. It doesn't matter though, this is definitely a done deal if I had any doubt before.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You might want to let her know that when you are married and have genital to genital contact with someone other than your spouse, it likely qualifies as an affair.


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## warlock07

> She says that she married me for the wrong reasons (I was so good to her young son, her parents loved me, etc) and never had the guts to say anything because I provided for them so well and was such a loving husband and father.


So she used you for money and the stability you provided her kid. Is that right?

read this and implement it

http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1302875291/last-1339174629/The+180


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## Stretch

Conrad said:


> You might want to let her know that when you are married and have genital to genital contact with someone other than your spouse, it likely qualifies as an affair.


Oh my God is that funny.:rofl:

GGuy, I know this is not a funny matter but I do believe that a good laugh is at least as theraputic as a good cry.

Again you are doing great. Lost 20, I bet you are becoming an adonis, look at yourself in the mirror and be proud of the new you. I still do it, lost 20 and still dropping, and as long as I do not get to full of myself, it motivates me to keep working on myself.

Stay strong,
Stretch


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> At why I exposed the affair. What she doesn't consider an affair. It doesn't matter though, this is definitely a done deal if I had any doubt before.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its amazing how well they hide things & how they're shocked when it comes out & then don't understand that people look down on them for what they did.


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## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> Pack her stuff up & let her come for it. The night mine moved out I started packing his stuff up & finished the next day. I didn't want it laying around reminding me of him.


I thought about that, I really did, but was trying not to completely shock my 7yo daughter into oblivion. She's 90% packed though. Truck should come early next week. I'm sure as **** not helping.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

Today I actually had a pretty good day. Whether it was just my mind playing tricks on me (survival tactic?) or if I actually stopped caring I'm not sure. But I'll take it all the same. Going to lunch with a long time buddy of mine from work was nice too. I was in his wedding and he's been there for me through both of my divorces as it were.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Today I actually had a pretty good day. Whether it was just my mind playing tricks on me (survival tactic?) or if I actually stopped caring I'm not sure. But I'll take it all the same. Going to lunch with a long time buddy of mine from work was nice too. I was in his wedding and he's been there for me through both of my divorces as it were.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take the good days when you can - it will be up & down for a while - find things to keep yourself busy. Its a little early to have stopped caring but you're not thinking about it all the time which is good.


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## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> Take the good days when you can - it will be up & down for a while - find things to keep yourself busy. Its a little early to have stopped caring but you're not thinking about it all the time which is good.


Thanks.. That's why I thought it might be some coping mechanism in my brain as well. Whatever it was, I am grateful for today. Is it weird that I can't wait for her to actually move out so that I can clean my house? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thanks.. That's why I thought it might be some coping mechanism in my brain as well. Whatever it was, I am grateful for today. Is it weird that I can't wait for her to actually move out so that I can clean my house?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think so - it was a blessing for me that once he left I packed up his stuff - took down the wedding pictures & got rid of his pillows. It was all gone within 24 hours. The memories were enough to deal with i didnt need to see his things. Its good because you're not sitting there looking at what once was your life - you can start to think about what can be.


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## Stretch

Be strong GG.

I am inspired by your strength, keep it going.

Here to try to help,
Stretch


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## TheGoodGuy

Bad morning today. Just going to vent. Down 21 pounds today.. really starting to see some good improvements in myself. She had the gall this morning to say "I wish you had tried this hard before". WTF? I started this self improvement BEFORE she decided it was time to leave and go **** some other guy!! Sure, I wish I had REALLY gotten the message earlier in my marriage so that I could fix it sooner, but NOW she's going to throw that in my face?!?!

Sorry... Really really angry this morning after the good day I had yesterday.

And no.. I'm not the type of guy who will go out and do anything stupid/reckless/hurtful out of anger. I'm just sitting in my office at work with the door closed calming myself down.


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## TheGoodGuy

Stretch said:


> Be strong GG.
> 
> I am inspired by your strength, keep it going.
> 
> Here to try to help,
> Stretch


Thank you Stretch. I do appreciate you and everyone on here for the honest and harsh feedback both. To have someone be "inspired" by my strength... well that's just pretty awesome to hear. I have gone through too much in my life to let this beat me! (gotta keep telling myself this)


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## smallsteps

It happens - you're going to have bad days - after almost 6 weeks of feeling pretty good ive had the worst 4 days in a while this week. Just vent & get it out it will help & don't let her make you feel bad about making improvements to yourself - now you're making them for you - not her.


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## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> It happens - you're going to have bad days - after almost 6 weeks of feeling pretty good ive had the worst 4 days in a while this week. Just vent & get it out it will help & don't let her make you feel bad about making improvements to yourself - now you're making them for you - not her.


Yep. I am, and will.


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## TheGoodGuy

Thought I'd post an update. Up and down day today. Hard to focus on work as I'm trying to read as much as I can on TAM! Last Sunday I made a really boneheaded decision to go out and have dinner/drinks with her "as friends". Of course it was a terrible idea. She proceeded to get riproaring drunk and throughout the course of the night made passes at other men in front of me, etc etc. I decided it was time (too late) to go back home (I stayed level headed and sober) and have the kids dropped off from my sister's house. She blew up and decided to walk across the street to a hotel and not come home. That right there ripped the wound right open again. On Monday she apologized profusely. Said that we should not have gone out and that she saw that she was sending me the wrong signals and in her state decided to do something mean to snap me out of it. WOW. So it was back to square one for me.

Anyway she's not been scheduled to work all week until Thurs-Sun so she's been at the house, helping to pick up kids, take them places, cooking them (and me) dinner, generally being nice to me (I have been calm, cool, and distant). She moves out on Monday. I caught a offhand comment from her last night about "This sucks.. probably gonna all blow up in my face but I have to learn how to do stuff on my own". 

So I'm reading TAM this morning (Mainly trying to catch up on BullWinkle's saga) and clicked a link this morning about the "fitness tests" that men get when women are needing the manly man to be there. It was good stuff until I realized how many times in the past I got served those tests and failed miserably. I'm still taking care of myself and trying to regain my confidence but I'm now in tears again thinking that I failed so many times. No I can't blame myself for her affair but some part of me does. I can't help it. Trying to calm myself down and pull myself back up out of the pit but natural emotions are still kicking in. I can look back now and see so many times when I tried to be perfect, tried not to say the wrong thing, walked on eggshells instead of showing her the confident manly side. Man this is so much to take in! Where is the balance? Is there one? Why do I feel so bad about all this when she was the one who cheated?!? Grrr.... Need some good lumber to the head here please.


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## Conrad

Sounds like you failed the test at the bar.

That's what those passes at other men were.


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## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Sounds like you failed the test at the bar.
> 
> That's what those passes at other men were.


Thanks Conrad. Serious question: What should my response have been? I know grovelling/begging/pleading would have been the wrong answer.. Should I have just walked out and left her azz there?


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thanks Conrad. Serious question: What should my response have been? I know grovelling/begging/pleading would have been the wrong answer.. Should I have just walked out and left her azz there?


You could have started with, "I'm not ok with that" - and then leave when it didn't stop.

And, don't worry about who is driving who where.

Her problem.

You get the idea.


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## TheGoodGuy

I really feel like we should not have even tried that in the first place. was that the real test I failed on Sunday? To stand up and say "No, I don't think that'd be right right now". Or was her wanting to go out a test for me of "let's see if I really want to R with him or not.."


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I really feel like we should not have even tried that in the first place. was that the real test I failed on Sunday? To stand up and say "No, I don't think that'd be right right now". Or was her wanting to go out a test for me of "let's see if I really want to R with him or not.."


She likely just wanted someone to pick up her bar tab.

You're Plan B.

She's showing you.


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## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> She likely just wanted someone to pick up her bar tab.
> 
> You're Plan B.
> 
> She's showing you.


Ouch.. And I did. Thank you. just the 2x4 to the head I needed. 

Snapped out of it now and back to No More Mister Nice Guy (is that counter intuitive of my username?)


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Ouch.. And I did. Thank you. just the 2x4 to the head I needed.
> 
> Snapped out of it now and back to No More Mister Nice Guy (is that counter intuitive of my username?)


Yes... why not change it and come back as "Lord Vader"


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## TheGoodGuy

So, breaking news. I just got this text from STBX: "So, apparently the people didn't turn in their keys to the apartment yesterday. So now it might be later than next week" regarding her moving out. Sigh.. These last couple of days have been tolerable and she'd been quite awesome by helping me with our kids, but I don't know what an extra week on top of this one will do to me or my recovery.


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## TheGoodGuy

Nevermind. Monday move is back on. They returned the key.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

Let her go & start moving on. Mine is gone 4 months tomorrow & I made the drastic mistake of too much contact ( didn't see him but calls- texts & messages through kids) it started messing me up - not that I want him back but it was bringing up negative thoughts. Your whole Sunday night experiment - way too soon. You need distance. Keep your discussions focused on the kids & financial issues. Treat it like a business transaction.


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## TheGoodGuy

Thanks SS. I agree that Sunday was way too soon, and the way she is acting now there is nothing left to go after. Yes, she has been absolutely cool about being at home, being available to the kids after school so that they don't have to do after school care (B&G Club is an absolutely fantastic organization BTW). But tonight she figured (in her mind) that she had done enough to warrant another date with the OM. I'm so sick of this disrespect. Like I said if I didn't have my D7 on my shoulder every night asking where mommy was I would have kicked her ass to the curb long ago. 4 more days to go before she moves. STBXW is psycho. Goes back and forth between "I'm just looking to be a parent with you" and "Its time for me to go out with OM" but not in those exact words. 

This and she moves about 25 miles away on Monday. We also have a S13, or should I say my step-son13 to look after. Baseball most evenings (practice or games) that I do not want to have to have him switch school districts one month before school is over. So I have (stupidly? or honorably?) offered to keep him here with me until he finishes school so that he can make his choice about whether or not to move with her or his dad (who actually does pay child support, honors visitation and lives in the same town STBXW is moving). Even though I've raised this young man since he was 2.5 YO I still would like him to be in my life, and his dad agrees. I've never been "friends" with him, but it seems like we're both now in the Ex-Husbands club together. 

As much as I'm grateful to her for playing the part and caring for kids during the day while I'm at work, I actually cannot wait until she moves out so that I can figure out my routine for the next month with both kids and start to move on. This playing housekeeper while keeping her commitment to the OM is SO F-ING disrespectful I cannot stand it.


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## warlock07

> I'm so sick of this disrespect


What are you going to do about it ? Vent about it here or do something ? Being the rational one is leaving you stomped on. Time to find some anger.



> Fast forward to now. She says that she married me for the wrong reasons (I was so good to her young son, her parents loved me, etc) and never had the guts to say anything because I provided for them so well and was such a loving husband and father. Says she needs to figure out who she is and take care of herself for a while to prove that she can (but yet wants to be "roommates" with this OM after she gets her stuff out of this house????).


have you called her out for wasting 10 years of your life for her own selfish needs ?


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## smallsteps

You need to get her out of your life as much as you can - her sticking around playing the "mommy role" is messing with your head because it brings thoughts into your mind of what could be if she would wake up.Her deciding to meet up with the om should be a big wake up call for you! Shes doing this stuff for herself to ease her guilt not for you (sorry to be so blunt) As for your daughter you know what's about to happen so you need to start to prepare her for the change. If she needs counceling then get it for her. My parents split when I was your daughters age and I remember going. Its a nice thing you're doing for your stepson. Maybe you should contact his dad & make arrangements with him - deal with her as little as possible. I know when my wh left I cut him out - not for any other reason than I didn't have the strength to go through what I was going through & have him around at the same time.


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## TheGoodGuy

warlock07 said:


> What are you going to do about it ? Vent about it here or do something ? Being the rational one is leaving you stomped on. Time to find some anger.


I thought this was a good place to vent and get some counsel? :scratchhead: I honestly think she might be bi-polar and needs some help. She's so all over the place I'm really not sure what her reaction will be. If I change the locks and set her stuff on the curb, in retaliation would she will pick up my daughter from school and run off? Destroy the house? I'm sorry Warlock, I'm just so confused right now. I'm just trying to let this be calm for 4 more days and then she can go do what she wants. If she could move into that apartment earlier I would have made that happen. All I'm thinking of right now is my daughter who cries for mom when she's not there.. Just 4 more days then we can move on.



warlock07 said:


> have you called her out for wasting 10 years of your life for her own selfish needs ?


 Yes, I have, and she bawled and cried and told me how sorry she is about wasting my life.


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## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> You need to get her out of your life as much as you can - her sticking around playing the "mommy role" is messing with your head because it brings thoughts into your mind of what could be if she would wake up.Her deciding to meet up with the om should be a big wake up call for you! Shes doing this stuff for herself to ease her guilt not for you (sorry to be so blunt) As for your daughter you know what's about to happen so you need to start to prepare her for the change. If she needs counceling then get it for her. My parents split when I was your daughters age and I remember going. Its a nice thing you're doing for your stepson. Maybe you should contact his dad & make arrangements with him - deal with her as little as possible. I know when my wh left I cut him out - not for any other reason than I didn't have the strength to go through what I was going through & have him around at the same time.


 Yes I've been preparing her for it. She knows the date STBX is moving out and is very sad about it. I plan on asking my IC today if I should get her her own counselling sessions or if they should be together with me.


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## smallsteps

Family counceling is good too. I saw you mentioned you think she might be bipolar - this is not your problem its hers and she needs to deal with it. If she feels nothing is wrong then you cant "save" her. I'm saying this because ive been through it. When my ex first left I my first reaction was to justify what he had done. Guess what - there was no justification. We were both to blame in the breakdown of the marriage but his actions of running away & cheating were HIS issue & I had nothing to do with that. You need to tell yourself the same thing.


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## Stretch

GG,

I am hoping to see your posts start referring to you instead of her. I can tell you are struggling but I can also see you are making progress.

I am positive when you start focusing on YOU, you will start making exponential progress instead of baby steps.

Be strong, you can do what needs to get done for YOU,
Stretch


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## TheGoodGuy

Good points SS and Stretch. I'm really looking forward to the visit with the IC today so that I can get this load off my chest and then start working towards my objective of taking care of myself and D7.


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## smallsteps

Making great strides is wonderful but baby steps are progress too (hence my tam name  ) its really how ive been coping through this whole thing. Anything more than one day at a time is overwhelming but trust me - those small steps build up over time & before you know it you look back & see how far you've come.


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## TheGoodGuy

What to say (if anything) to POSOM? I want so bad to "be the man" and say something to him, even if it's "take care of my wife" or "F U MFer". I feel like if I don't say anything, I'm laying down and getting walked on... not sticking up for what I believe in. On the other hand I'm trying to do the 180 but the thoughts that go through my head day in and day out are unreal. I have a really good job and am trying to not let this mess affect my future. Trying really hard to let go.. after all, she put me through this mess right? God please make this go away. I'm ready to move on...


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## warlock07

His wife cheated on him and he gets together with another cheater ? Good luck . Does he know the complete story ?

Either your W lied to him or he is lying about his ex-wife. Try to contact her.



> Yes, I have, and she bawled and cried and told me how sorry she is about wasting my life.


This seriously pisses me off. Sorry just doesn't cut it!!It is not enough for 10 years of your life and money. Her bawling and crying is all about herself. Self pity.


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## TheGoodGuy

warlock07 said:


> His wife cheated on him and he gets together with another cheater ? Good luck . Does he know the complete story ?
> 
> Either your W lied to him or he is lying about his ex-wife. Try to contact her.


I believe his W cheating on him and my wife thinking she was unhappy is what led to the EA and then PA. I believe both of them are in the FOG and are justifying all of this. They work together (he's her "boss" at work, although they do almost the same job). I have contacted his wife a couple of weeks ago to expose the affair. She was not surprised, as she freely admitted that she had screwed up her marriage to the point of no return. She said to me "if you ever need to talk, call me and keep in touch". It sounded really weird, like she was into me although I've only met her once. I have no interest in this cheating woman. Are there any women with integrity left in the world? I need to find one.



warlock07 said:


> This seriously pisses me off. Sorry just doesn't cut it!!It is not enough for 10 years of your life and money. Her bawling and crying is all about herself. Self pity.


Agreed, but what am I supposed to say to her about it? It's all self-pity and guilt and I truly feel like she's already halfway regretting this. She has also cried and thrown a fit about "OMG I know this is my choice but I'm losing everything! My daughter, my home, my family... " I feel (because I have known this woman for a decade) that she will try to stick this relationship with OM out for stubbornness sake to "prove" to everyone that it was real and that it wasn't a mistake. :rofl:


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## smallsteps

I ask myself the same thing - are there any men with intergrity left? I know there are but they are few & far between. Its just the society we live in now unfortunatly. I'm sure when the time is right you'll find someone but I wouldn't be worried about that now. It only causes more stress & you have to deal with your current issues first.


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## Shaggy

I can't recall, did you expose the affair at work? Did you post OM on cheaterville?


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## TheGoodGuy

Yes. I emailed the owners. I have actually worked with this company for a non-profit benefit event last fall and got to know one of the owners. He (the co-owner) is the reason she got the job in the first place because we had used them for our event. But this is a very small company, maybe 12 employees? The owners are a gay couple.. STBXW even changed her FB profile pic to that red logo thing that represents support for the gay community (or something... Don't want to get into that debate right now). Anyway apparently he talked with them about the "relationship" and told them its fine as long as they can stay "professional" while at work. Needless to say but the non-profit I'm involved with will not be using their services again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

No I have not posted anything to cheaterville. Does this really get me anything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

Well.. She moved out today. Went home for lunch and it was surreal. I just sat there on my couch and watched tv by myself. Didn't get sad, nor angry. Just numb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Well.. She moved out today. Went home for lunch and it was surreal. I just sat there on my couch and watched tv by myself. Didn't get sad, nor angry. Just numb.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry you're feeling that way. What's bad is its like ripping the band aid off & opening back up the wound. Up until now with her there it didn't allow you to really start to grieve & start the healing. You will probably feel a lot of different emotions you'll go through now - in other words the roller coaster. Try to find things you like to do - get in touch with friends & get out with them. Try to look at this as the start of something that's going to be better than before.


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## TheGoodGuy

Thanks. In my first marriage/divorce, ii lost my son (see opening post) so there were no kids involved. This time is different. She's out having a great time being "free" while I am doing my normal responsible thing and looking after our children. Not that I'm jealous of that but dang... I really do not know this person she's become.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

I did read your original post - I am very sorry for what happened to you with your son. I completly understand that feeling since my WH did the same thing. They ran and started their new lives while we're left to pick up the pieces of their mess. I'm still resentful because I get to deal with the day to day bs while he swoops in & gets to be "fun dad". I know my kids are old enough to see that but it still gets to me. Not to mention the WS run off & have someone else while we need to start over & deal with all the trust issues and other 
baggage they left behind. It isn't fair BUT I do believe we will end up better - stronger people in the long run.


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## smallsteps

They aren't the same people we married. Those people are long gone by this point!!


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## TheGoodGuy

Had a pretty good afternoon and a good day today so far. Still confused by her actions/emotions Sunday night though. Very emotional, crying that she wouldn't be seeing her kids every night/every morning.. Isn't this "freedom" precisely what she wanted? Oh wait, no she wanted time to figure things out and live on her own, figure out how to pay her own bills, have some responsibility.. Oh wait, she still doesn't have to have much much responsibility (at least not with the kids). I'm now her fulltime babysitter so that she has all the freedom in the world to go out to dinner, concerts, etc with the POSOM.. Don't get me wrong I love spending time with my kids and realize someone has to be the responsible one, but why cry so much about your decisions?!?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

I don't understand the way they think but you know what - I shouldn't matter. They're broken people & their drama does nothing for us - the people they left- but keep us from healing & moving on. Start to focus more on yourself & your children & less on her problems and what motivated her to do this. I know its hard but you really need to try.


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## TheGoodGuy

Understood. That's a couple of you who want me to start focusing on me. I honestly think the fact that she's out of the house will help me do that. I'm down 25 pounds so far with another 15-20 to go (yes, I was about 40-45 lbs overweight). Feeling great, enjoyed working out tonight on the elliptical machine. Between sports and things, I'm focusing on cleaning up the remainder of one room each night. Gonna have to buy a few new things but it shouldn't be too bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## terrence4159

dude ive have been where you are snap out of this you say im her babysitter so she can go out and yada yada. NO YOU ARE A RESPONSIBLE PARENT and you are now the ROCK in those kids lives and THEY ARE A HUGE PART in yours. i was the single parent ROCK to my son (3 months old when we D) 9 years later I am still the rock along with my new wife.

i wouldnt change anything over these last 9 years IM SO SO HAPPY MY XW CHEATED and I d her.


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## TheGoodGuy

Thanks T. Everything is still raw right now but I have always been and will continue to be their rock, no matter what. Looking forward to that part of it actually. Just have to get her out of my head and not give a flying f what she's up to. She abandoned her own children, not me. Thanks again for the encouragement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

When thoughts of her pops into your head - try to focus on something else - it takes a little time but it does get easier to do as time goes on. There's a reason we say focus on you - because it works & its the best way to heal


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## Stretch

GG,

Look to the future buddy. It can be as bright as you want it to be. Start living your new life, with new adventures, new excitement, new love?, and deserved happiness.

I am rooting for you!
Stretch


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Had a pretty good afternoon and a good day today so far. Still confused by her actions/emotions Sunday night though. Very emotional, crying that she wouldn't be seeing her kids every night/every morning.. Isn't this "freedom" precisely what she wanted? Oh wait, no she wanted time to figure things out and live on her own, figure out how to pay her own bills, have some responsibility.. Oh wait, she still doesn't have to have much much responsibility (at least not with the kids). I'm now her fulltime babysitter so that she has all the freedom in the world to go out to dinner, concerts, etc with the POSOM.. Don't get me wrong I love spending time with my kids and realize someone has to be the responsible one, but why cry so much about your decisions?!?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why in the world are you allowing this?


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## TheGoodGuy

Not sure what you mean.. She's moved out to a different town, divorce papers are in the works, i have primary custody... What I need to stop allowing is myself thinking about her at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Not sure what you mean.. She's moved out to a different town, divorce papers are in the works, i have primary custody... What I need to stop allowing is myself thinking about her at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When you say "full time babysitter", that implies she has the kids some of the time.

Basically, you're a single parent.

Sue her for child support.

Use the money she pays to schedule your own nights out.


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## TheGoodGuy

Thanks Conrad. Yep, child support will definitely be in the settlement. Thing thing is all supposed to be wrapped up by the end of the month.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Not sure what you mean.. She's moved out to a different town, divorce papers are in the works, i have primary custody... What I need to stop allowing is myself thinking about her at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only you can stop yourself from thinking about her. Make sure all remnders of her are gone - if your kids want pictures/reminders then let them keep them in their rooms. Like I said when thoughts of her pop into your head distract yourself. Don't even let them take hold to begin with. As time goes on & your head is clearer you will be able to sort through things but not now. She hasn't been out of your life long enough.


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## TheGoodGuy

Feeling.. um.. introspective? tonight. Was watching Survivor (don't make fun of me, this is the only reality show that I can stomach and I do actually enjoy it) and they brought out family members to meet the last few people on the island. It's a brutal show sometimes, emotionally for the cast members. Anyway a couple of the people had spouses that they had been married to for 20+ years, and it got me thinking. 

I've always been one that "romanticizes" marriage. Even in my first marriage at a young age, I was going to be the one that proved that a lifelong marriage could be done. My grandparents were married 61 years before my grandpa passed away. Then a couple of years later my grandma passed. It felt like she just could not go on without her loving husband around. Pretty emotional stuff. I have watched my dad and my older brother both go through divorce and wanted to be the one to make it work. So the show tonight dredged up those feelings of "why can't I pick the right woman?". My first wife and I made it about 2 years (obviously many people talk about "you both were too young"). My STBXW and I almost made it to a decade.. I feel let down and my pride is bruised. What causes people to decide that the commitment they made is breakable? I believe there are causes that happen today where a marriage should be terminated, but I also believe it's too damn easy to get a divorce these days. I don't feel like our situation was unfix-able. I know it's over and I'm moving on, but I'm jealous of those folks who stand by each other and make it work.. every marriage has its ups and downs. some fall in love all over again and live happiliy ever after. Like I said, I've romanticized marriage.

Anyway, thanks for letting me journal those feelings. Last night I called STBX to let her say goodnight to the kids before they went to bed. Tonight I wanted to see if their mom would call me or if the kids would ask to speak with her before they went to bed (I would never stop them from that BTW). Neither one happened. I tucked the kids in, they didn't ask about mom, and mom didn't call to talk to her kids.. I think that pretty much says it all. I'll not be initiating those conversations again. Have a good night all, and thanks for listening.


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## smallsteps

Her not calling at the kids bedtime spoke volumes! Its time for you to move on & set up your own routines with them.
I was married almost 25 - he left in January - our 25 th would have been in July. Its sad - after all those years I figured it wasn't something I had to worry about - wed been through so many ups & downs & life's events. Our kids were almost grown the youngest is 15 - but he chose to leave. I'm jealous watching people who have long marriages that seem to just make it "work". I hope for myself that someday I get that second chance. I don't want to give up hope just yet. Maybe we can learn from watching these long married couples & make ourselves better for next time around.


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## TheGoodGuy

Thanks again SS. I shouldn't worry but I do.. That when I'm ready to start dating woman will look at me like "geez he couldn't keep 2 different marriages together, why would I want to be with him", etc. sucks because neither one have been my choice. Anyway had a pretty good day today. Shopping with my D while stepson is at visitation with his dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thanks again SS. I shouldn't worry but I do.. That when I'm ready to start dating woman will look at me like "geez he couldn't keep 2 different marriages together, why would I want to be with him", etc. sucks because neither one have been my choice. Anyway had a pretty good day today. Shopping with my D while stepson is at visitation with his dad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's not true - everyone has a story to be told. I'm not sure of your age but hey everyone has a certain amount of baggage. It will depend on the kind of woman you look for. But that's getting ahead of yourself right now. Use this time to reflect & see what you could have done different. Make yourself a better person. Glad to hear you had a good day - just take it one day at a time.


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## TheGoodGuy

I'm 32. Feel like I'm 52 some days with what life has thrown at me. But you're right. This will make me a better man in the long run and I'll come away happier and wiser for it. Just wish young kids didn't have to go through these tough times as well. But like I said I went through it, my kids will be ok eventually too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> I'm 32. Feel like I'm 52 some days with what life has thrown at me. But you're right. This will make me a better man in the long run and I'll come away happier and wiser for it. Just wish young kids didn't have to go through these tough times as well. But like I said I went through it, my kids will be ok eventually too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yikes 32 - I could have babysat you at one time lol! You will be better off in the longrun. Just focus on you & your kids. I was a child of divorce & I think I made it out ok. My kids actually seem better off with us apart. Not as much arguing & tension in the house. Your kids will be ok. Just keep an eye on them. With my 15 yr old I let his teachers know so I had extra eyes watching him while he was at school.


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## Stretch

Hey everyone, optimistically consider this point of view.

We can take these tradgedies and we can understand how we could have been better partners and make those sincere changes to ourselves. I believe that any future partner will be the lucky winner of the new us. To GG's point, if a future partner wants to focus on the past, you cannot change that but if they give you a chance, which people are forever looking for love, you will end up being the best partner they have ever been with.

I see it happening today and not to be arrogant but my GF is damn lucky to be with the new ME.

The future can only be bright if you become a better person because of your experience.

Live, love be happy friends,
Stretch


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## smallsteps

Well said Stretch & I really like your attitude!!


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## TheGoodGuy

Agreed I'm slowly starting to come around to this view as well. Thanks Stretch!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

Sooo.... I was starting to read the Married Man Sex Life Primer last night, and I can't wait to get to the stuff where it makes me better! The first little bit wasn't too bad, but then it started talking about why cheaters act like crack addicts (dopamine) ILYBINILWY, and "bored". It opened that wound wide open again. I did all those things wrong over the last few years. Wow I feel like a huge idiot. I know at my core that I did not "cause" her to leave me for another, but I certainly did not help matters by being a doormat. GOD I feel so stupid. I will keep reading, but I just had to put it down and cry for while last night. DAMNIT I thought I was on the mend!!!

Rant over. I WILL use this situation and this book to make myself a better man, but I sorely wish I had invested in this type of book earlier.. Ignorance was bliss I guess.


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## Conrad

GG,

Rather than beat yourself up, ask yourself this...

Who is supposed to tell you these things?

No one told me.


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## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> GG,
> 
> Rather than beat yourself up, ask yourself this...
> 
> Who is supposed to tell you these things?
> 
> No one told me.


I know Conrad, I really do.. I guess I just needed to feel sorry for myself for a while. Back on track now. The next woman for me will reap the benefits of this knowledge.


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I know Conrad, I really do.. I guess I just needed to feel sorry for myself for a while. Back on track now. The next woman for me will reap the benefits of this knowledge.


I love it when people say, "They don't play games"

Guess what? If your partner starts them, you have to figure out how to win them.


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## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> I love it when people say, "They don't play games"
> 
> Guess what? If your partner starts them, you have to figure out how to win them.


Yeah.. that's bull****. What's funny is that I told my STBXW from the get go that I was not good at "playing the game" and that if she wanted me to do something, just ask. I'm not a mind reader. Guess I'll have to figure out how to be just that in my next relationship.


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## TheGoodGuy

Update: I'm still on this f-ing ride that I hate. I know it just takes time but geez I'm ready to get off. Last week was a pretty good week overall. But then this weekend depression set in Friday and most of the day Saturday. Then Sunday came, I watched the Formula 1 race this morning (my favorite racing series), cleaned up the house and had a great day over all. The kids are with their mom for Mother's Day and I'm just sitting here alone watching a movie at home. (HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY to all those mom's out there!).

I just wanted to journal for a bit. Feel free to comment if you would like. I'm reading MMSLP, and have made it through the Alpha vs Beta types. I'm definitely a responsible Beta type. As I said before I obviously f-ed all of that up with my STBXW. Anyway, realizing I need to man up and take on some more Alpha traits got me thinking. Aren't I letting myself be walked on by not going and kicking the crap out of the OM? If I just sit here, do the 180, and not respond to her, aren't I just rolling over and taking it? Yes yes I realize I can't take care of my kids very well from jail, but jeez shouldn't I at least SAY SOMETHING to him? Like "F U, thanks for taking her off my hands" or "Good luck to you buddy. Look what she did to me.. It'll happen to you eventually". I don't know.. I feel like a chump just sitting here and not taking my anger and aggression out on him. Like he's spending time with her and just laughing in my face "see I told you he was a spineless chump and wouldn't do anything to stop us".. GAH this is frustrating. I did try to stop them by exposing the affair, but it didn't work obviously. Just don't want to feel like he won and I lost. Yeah, I'm competitive like that, so I know there's at least some Alpha in me somewhere.

Fire away...


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Ok I said I was journaling but I wouldn't mind an opinion or two about my thoughts yesterday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Update: I'm still on this f-ing ride that I hate. I know it just takes time but geez I'm ready to get off. Last week was a pretty good week overall. But then this weekend depression set in Friday and most of the day Saturday. Then Sunday came, I watched the Formula 1 race this morning (my favorite racing series), cleaned up the house and had a great day over all. The kids are with their mom for Mother's Day and I'm just sitting here alone watching a movie at home. (HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY to all those mom's out there!).
> 
> I just wanted to journal for a bit. Feel free to comment if you would like. I'm reading MMSLP, and have made it through the Alpha vs Beta types. I'm definitely a responsible Beta type. As I said before I obviously f-ed all of that up with my STBXW. Anyway, realizing I need to man up and take on some more Alpha traits got me thinking. Aren't I letting myself be walked on by not going and kicking the crap out of the OM? If I just sit here, do the 180, and not respond to her, aren't I just rolling over and taking it? Yes yes I realize I can't take care of my kids very well from jail, but jeez shouldn't I at least SAY SOMETHING to him? Like "F U, thanks for taking her off my hands" or "Good luck to you buddy. Look what she did to me.. It'll happen to you eventually". I don't know.. I feel like a chump just sitting here and not taking my anger and aggression out on him. Like he's spending time with her and just laughing in my face "see I told you he was a spineless chump and wouldn't do anything to stop us".. GAH this is frustrating. I did try to stop them by exposing the affair, but it didn't work obviously. Just don't want to feel like he won and I lost. Yeah, I'm competitive like that, so I know there's at least some Alpha in me somewhere.
> 
> Fire away...


Do you know his name?

Do you know where he works?

Do you know where his family lives?


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## TheGoodGuy

Yes, yes, and no. He's my stbx's boss where she works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Yes, yes, and no. He's my stbx's boss where she works.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Expose his behavior to everyone.

Find out where his family is - and tell them.


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## TheGoodGuy

Already exposed the A weeks ago. It did no good (in this situation anyway, I'm sure it works for others). It's such a small company that everyone assumed it anyway. The company is owned by a gay couple and the rest of the employees are part time cooks. I told the other mans wife as well, but she had already been cheating on him so it didn't really do anything either. Not sure how to find out where the rest of his family is..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Already exposed the A weeks ago. It did no good (in this situation anyway, I'm sure it works for others). It's such a small company that everyone assumed it anyway. The company is owned by a gay couple and the rest of the employees are part time cooks. I told the other mans wife as well, but she had already been cheating on him so it didn't really do anything either. Not sure how to find out where the rest of his family is..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Where there's a will, there's a way.

Have him followed.


----------



## Stretch

GG,

More of a NASCAR fan but the F1 was the only game in town Sunday. Good race, entertaining for a change.

Any chance you could pull off an adventure to Austin this year. That would take my mind off my troubles if I had that to look forward to.

Keep digging man, you are doing pretty damn good,
Stretch


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Stretch said:


> GG,
> 
> More of a NASCAR fan but the F1 was the only game in town Sunday. Good race, entertaining for a change.
> 
> Any chance you could pull off an adventure to Austin this year. That would take my mind off my troubles if I had that to look forward to.
> 
> Keep digging man, you are doing pretty damn good,
> Stretch


I used to be more into NASCAR and when Dale Sr died I became a Jr fan, but then just kinda got bored with it. I'll still watch it if it's the only racing on though. 

F1 has been a passion of mine for the last 4 years or so although I've followed it more or less since the mid nineties. I actually did go last November to the inaugeral Austin race. We'll see if I can afford to go again. It was incredible. And unfortunately the last vacation we took as a family.  ****.. why did I have to say it that way.. Anyways..

If I do get to go again this year it would likely just be me and my daughter so it would be MUCH cheaper!


----------



## Stretch

You might be surprised how your love of the sport overshadows the memories.

I took my GF to the Ford 400 last year, a race my WAW and I had been to a half dozen times. We had a great time and my new memories of that weekend has trumped my old memories.

Good luck bud, you are doing great, keep healing,
Stretch


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thanks stretch. I decided to do the "write a letter but don't send it" thing today. It did feel good to get all that off my chest in that way. I offered to send it to my IC if she wants to read it and see all of the different emotions flowing through my head. 

Saw a striking beauty at work today. No ring, but wasn't wearing her badge so I couldn't catch the name. Hoping next time I see her I can catch the name and say hi... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

That weird moment where you come to the realization that the woman you loved doesn't exist anymore. Lets hope it sticks this time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> That weird moment where you come to the realization that the woman you loved doesn't exist anymore. Lets hope it sticks this time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Pedestals are poor substitutes for partners.


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> That weird moment where you come to the realization that the woman you loved doesn't exist anymore. Lets hope it sticks this time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its all part of the process - you'll have to keep reminding yourself of it. Sometimes they make it easier for us to remember that because of the way they behave.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Well.. some interesting news tonight. I'm not sure if this helps me or hurts me. I'm thinking it's helpful, at this moment it feels that way anyway. STBXW stopped by tonight to say hi to the kids and drop off a book for D7 and the keys to the house that she still had on her keyring. While here, she said she was looking for a different job close to the apartment she has and would likely be quitting the current job soon. Out of morbid curiosity, I asked why. 

She said that things were moving way too fast with the POSOM and it was freaking her out. Said that he joked around too much about everything and never showed emotions. While she is about as emotional as they come. Said they had an argument Monday night and walked out on her. She asked him why he was leaving her alone, and then realized what she was saying. Being alone and having some space is exactly what she had intended by leaving me (Her words mind you. I know that it was just her rationalizing leaving me "for the right reasons). So she broke up with him tonight before she came to my house. There were no signs of R or False R at all, she even took the wedding dress that was still hanging in her closet and some of the bills that are still coming to this address. Then she tucked the kids in and left to drive 40 minutes to her apartment.

So while this is good news to me that they broke up, I'm confused and worried that this will set me back a step (or three). I'm trying so hard not to allow any feelings of R enter my mind. I've been so angry over the disrespect she showed my by keeping things going with the POSOM. Her behavior has been outrageous. I'm glad for the feeling of relief I'm feeling right now if they truly stay broken up. She says she's lonely and hurt and crying alot. I said welcome to my world. 

I have my every-other-week IC session tomorrow and plan on talking about this as well. I have been thinking tonight since she left that even if she hadn't gotten this job and met POSOM, this D was more than likely bound to happen eventually based on her other behaviors. Another man would have happened by to be the catalyst or after another year of unhappiness it would have happened anyway. I do wish I could turn back the hands of time and not been so Betaized, or at least been given the chance to do MC together, but she's already thrown all of that away. So I my question is what pitfalls do I need to watch out for? I'm certainly not ready to take her back today, but what if she catches me in a weak moment and suddenly wants to fix things? Is this a fitness test? Do I call my attorney to slow things down? So confused right now TAMers. Help me stay on the straight and narrow path.


----------



## ReGroup

Full steam ahead on the divorce.

Why you entertained the conversation is beyond me. Don't be a sympathetic ear to her. She is unworthy of it.

Don't be a friend to her. Next time put the hand sign up and walk away. She'll respect you more for doing so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

TheGoodGuy said:


> Well.. some interesting news tonight. I'm not sure if this helps me or hurts me. I'm thinking it's helpful, at this moment it feels that way anyway. STBXW stopped by tonight to say hi to the kids and drop off a book for D7 and the keys to the house that she still had on her keyring. While here, she said she was looking for a different job close to the apartment she has and would likely be quitting the current job soon. Out of morbid curiosity, I asked why.
> 
> She said that things were moving way too fast with the POSOM and it was freaking her out. Said that he joked around too much about everything and never showed emotions. While she is about as emotional as they come. Said they had an argument Monday night and walked out on her. She asked him why he was leaving her alone, and then realized what she was saying. Being alone and having some space is exactly what she had intended by leaving me (Her words mind you. I know that it was just her rationalizing leaving me "for the right reasons). So she broke up with him tonight before she came to my house. There were no signs of R or False R at all, she even took the wedding dress that was still hanging in her closet and some of the bills that are still coming to this address. Then she tucked the kids in and left to drive 40 minutes to her apartment.
> 
> So while this is good news to me that they broke up, I'm confused and worried that this will set me back a step (or three). I'm trying so hard not to allow any feelings of R enter my mind. I've been so angry over the disrespect she showed my by keeping things going with the POSOM. Her behavior has been outrageous. I'm glad for the feeling of relief I'm feeling right now if they truly stay broken up. She says she's lonely and hurt and crying alot. I said welcome to my world.
> 
> I have my every-other-week IC session tomorrow and plan on talking about this as well. I have been thinking tonight since she left that even if she hadn't gotten this job and met POSOM, this D was more than likely bound to happen eventually based on her other behaviors. Another man would have happened by to be the catalyst or after another year of unhappiness it would have happened anyway. I do wish I could turn back the hands of time and not been so Betaized, or at least been given the chance to do MC together, but she's already thrown all of that away. So I my question is what pitfalls do I need to watch out for? I'm certainly not ready to take her back today, but what if she catches me in a weak moment and suddenly wants to fix things? Is this a fitness test? Do I call my attorney to slow things down? So confused right now TAMers. Help me stay on the straight and narrow path.


Go back and read your first post on this thread. That may snap you back into reality and what she has put you through.

For even thinking about R - you should still D - and continue to work on / improve yourself.

You stbxw has to really work on herself - but my guess is she will move onto another OM pretty quickly.

She said she was not attractive to you and married you for all the wrong reasons - not easy to forget those words and ever trust her again.

Stranger things have happened in life - one never knows what the future holds - but that future is so far off - its not even on the calendar yet.


----------



## GutPunch

Don't listen to her drama.

She may be just feeling you out.

Unless she hits her knees begging,

it's forward march.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Understood ReGroup, but if she didn't respect me enough to keep from sleeping with another man while married what is to be gained by earning her respect now?


----------



## ReGroup

A woman can't love a man she does not respect.

Next time, take her to task.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

Gain that respect back One Transaction At a Time as Chip would say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thank you all for your replies. D7 went to sleep over 2.5 hours ago, and just woke up wailing for her mama. I got her calmed down and she is back in bed. Do I tell the STBXW about this to make her feel the full brunt of what she is causing? Or say nothing and be all cool calm and dispassionate?


----------



## GutPunch

Say nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thank you all for your replies. D7 went to sleep over 2.5 hours ago, and just woke up wailing for her mama. I got her calmed down and she is back in bed. Do I tell the STBXW about this to make her feel the full brunt of what she is causing? Or say nothing and be all cool calm and dispassionate?


Say nothing --- what good with that do ??

You handled the situation ---- any mention about this may just reinvoice in your stbxw's mind why she left.


----------



## warlock07

Don't do any more talks like this. She takes responsibility of what happens from now on, unless it pertains the kids. Her relationships are none of your business.

The affair wasn't fun anymore once it was a full fledged relationship. I also wouldn't be surprised if she is the one that got dumped, but is lying to you anyway.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Well.. some interesting news tonight. I'm not sure if this helps me or hurts me. I'm thinking it's helpful, at this moment it feels that way anyway. STBXW stopped by tonight to say hi to the kids and drop off a book for D7 and the keys to the house that she still had on her keyring. While here, she said she was looking for a different job close to the apartment she has and would likely be quitting the current job soon. Out of morbid curiosity, I asked why.
> 
> She said that things were moving way too fast with the POSOM and it was freaking her out. Said that he joked around too much about everything and never showed emotions. While she is about as emotional as they come. Said they had an argument Monday night and walked out on her. She asked him why he was leaving her alone, and then realized what she was saying. Being alone and having some space is exactly what she had intended by leaving me (Her words mind you. I know that it was just her rationalizing leaving me "for the right reasons). So she broke up with him tonight before she came to my house. There were no signs of R or False R at all, she even took the wedding dress that was still hanging in her closet and some of the bills that are still coming to this address. Then she tucked the kids in and left to drive 40 minutes to her apartment.
> 
> So while this is good news to me that they broke up, I'm confused and worried that this will set me back a step (or three). I'm trying so hard not to allow any feelings of R enter my mind. I've been so angry over the disrespect she showed my by keeping things going with the POSOM. Her behavior has been outrageous. I'm glad for the feeling of relief I'm feeling right now if they truly stay broken up. She says she's lonely and hurt and crying alot. I said welcome to my world.
> 
> I have my every-other-week IC session tomorrow and plan on talking about this as well. I have been thinking tonight since she left that even if she hadn't gotten this job and met POSOM, this D was more than likely bound to happen eventually based on her other behaviors. Another man would have happened by to be the catalyst or after another year of unhappiness it would have happened anyway. I do wish I could turn back the hands of time and not been so Betaized, or at least been given the chance to do MC together, but she's already thrown all of that away. So I my question is what pitfalls do I need to watch out for? I'm certainly not ready to take her back today, but what if she catches me in a weak moment and suddenly wants to fix things? Is this a fitness test? Do I call my attorney to slow things down? So confused right now TAMers. Help me stay on the straight and narrow path.


Still think exposure doesn't work?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Still think exposure doesn't work?


Point taken Conrad. ***lowers head in defeat***
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Point taken Conrad. ***lowers head in defeat***
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're not alone by any means.

The Affair Fog is an all-consuming emotional cloud.

Nothing is real in there - all just very pleasureable chemicals coursing around. posOM seems perfect... a soul mate... someone who will solve ALL your problems.

Anything view that interferes with that Fog is to be discounted/discarded, because life is just to be this easy with hot sex, long conversations, sunsets, etc.

In the affair fog, nobody ever farts, everyone is understanding and life is simply easy and perfect.

Sounds silly, right? Yet, we're talking about some of the most powerful motivational primal forces on earth.

I believe that puncturing that that fog is actually the DUTY of the betrayed spouse. Exposure makes life so much more.... realistic. Dirty deeds and duplicitous behavior don't win you applause and a glidepath to happiness.

And, yes, when the going gets rough, the white knight known as posOM often shows his true colors and hits the road.

He already got what he came for.

He was never signed up for the long-term.

It just "felt" like he was.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Wow, that really breaks it down so a dummy like me can understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

TheGoodGuy said:


> Well.. some interesting news tonight. I'm not sure if this helps me or hurts me. I'm thinking it's helpful, at this moment it feels that way anyway. STBXW stopped by tonight to say hi to the kids and drop off a book for D7 and the keys to the house that she still had on her keyring. While here, she said she was looking for a different job close to the apartment she has and would likely be quitting the current job soon. Out of morbid curiosity, I asked why.


She totally wanted to tell you that OM and her broke up. She baited you into asking for the info. She probably is too ashamed to ask to reconcile immediately. But she will work on it slowly in the next few weeks.

Do you want to reconcile ?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

warlock07 said:


> She totally wanted to tell you that OM and her broke up. She baited you into asking for the info. She probably is too ashamed to ask to reconcile immediately. But she will work on it slowly in the next few weeks.
> 
> Do you want to reconcile ?


Oh my God what a question. Of course part of me wants my family unit back. But what she has put me/us through is truly horrifying. I just don't know at this point if she could fix her issues and not just revert right back to the way she was this past month. I'm fixing myself and learning a lot (about fitness tests, alpha/beta traits, etc), but I can't answer that question right now. Unfortunately the D will be done in a couple of weeks and by then it may be too late.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stretch

You future will be built on your terms. You will decide what that future looks like and you will be a better person because of it. No doubt.

You keep focusing on you and your D, the only two people that deserve your attention right now.

Dare I say for all the pain, betrayal and lies, in the end you have WON the game you never wanted to play. Well done, GG, well done.

Now go live your life on your terms,
Stretch


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Stretch said:


> You future will be built on your terms. You will decide what that future looks like and you will be a better person because of it. No doubt.
> 
> You keep focusing on you and your D, the only two people that deserve your attention right now.
> 
> Dare I say for all the pain, betrayal and lies, in the end you have WON the game you never wanted to play. Well done, GG, well done.
> 
> Now go live your life on your terms,
> Stretch


Wow.. Thank you. This means a lot. You're right I never wanted to play this game. Sure doesn't feel like I won, but I've never looked at it like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Oh my God what a question. Of course part of me wants my family unit back. But what she has put me/us through is truly horrifying. I just don't know at this point if she could fix her issues and not just revert right back to the way she was this past month. I'm fixing myself and learning a lot (about fitness tests, alpha/beta traits, etc), but I can't answer that question right now. Unfortunately the D will be done in a couple of weeks and by then it may be too late.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Simply continue to press forward.

If she wants you to stop, she'll let you know.

You won't have to interpret her actions.


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## TheGoodGuy

You are absolutely correct. No slowing down. After talking with the IC today she opened my eyes to a few things. This thing is full speed ahead. I will not tolerate this disrespect any longer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> You are absolutely correct. No slowing down. After talking with the IC today she opened my eyes to a few things. This thing is full speed ahead. I will not tolerate this disrespect any longer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No way to like this enough.

Isn't the feeling of re-claiming your personal power invigorating?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> No way to like this enough.
> 
> Isn't the feeling of re-claiming your personal power invigorating?


Yes sir it absolutely is! Going canoeing this weekend with an old friend and I cannot wait! Luckily we've done so much canoeing that D7 cannot wait to go either. Gonna be the perfect weekend! Woot! (Yeah, I just said woot. Deal with it) 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Yes sir it absolutely is! Going canoeing this weekend with an old friend and I cannot wait! Luckily we've done this so much that D7 cannot wait to go either. Gonna be the perfect weekend! Woot! (Yeah, I just said woot. Deal with it)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Smiling here.

Quite the transformation from your first post.

Kick some ass.


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## TheGoodGuy

I love TAM and all who have helped me. No kidding at all there. Night all!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> You are absolutely correct. No slowing down. After talking with the IC today she opened my eyes to a few things. This thing is full speed ahead. I will not tolerate this disrespect any longer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nice to see your upbeat - confident attitude!! Doesn't it feel good?


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## happyman64

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thank you all for your replies. D7 went to sleep over 2.5 hours ago, and just woke up wailing for her mama. I got her calmed down and she is back in bed. Do I tell the STBXW about this to make her feel the full brunt of what she is causing? Or say nothing and be all cool calm and dispassionate?


GoodGuy

You are getting great advice on your thread.

But your wife has truly suffered no consequences for wasting your time all these years, lying, cheating and walking out on not just you but her children.

Cheaters are selfish. 
Walk Away Wives (WAW) are very selfish.
But Mothers that abandon their children are sick.

Sure she needs to go out and find herself, "F" other men, live on their own. Well guess what, your wife forgot to read the rule book about responsibilities.

So move forward with your D.
Get child support.
Get visitation on to a schedule and stick to it.
Get yourself in shape.
And work on you so you are ready for the next woman.

Stop worrying about how you look to other women about two divorces and the kids.

Focus on you. Start looking awesome. Start being awesome. Love your children.

And you will see how awesome you look to other women. It will happen.

But you have to want it to happen and make it happen for yourself.

And leave the nutty ex behind where she belongs.

HM64


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## TheGoodGuy

Thanks HM. And yes, she is oh so nutty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

Apologies in advance for what is going to be 3 lengthy posts, 3 different subjects. 

So this weekend was great. Dinner with D7 Friday night, then to my bosses house to celebrate his son's HS graduation. Lots of support for me over there (been friends with my boss for more than 13 years, he's really done a lot for me). Then canoeing yesterday with other friends and my daughter. 12 miles is a long way.. I was exhausted but happy. Spent the night over at that friends house and enjoyed the fire in their fire pit.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

As for STBXW, I talked with her about the kids the day after she told me she broke up with POSOM. She was at work, laughing, and I got the feeling they probably patched things up (at least temporarily). Why do I even care?? I talked with her about plans to go canoeing with D7 this weekend (stepson13 was with his dad), and she said "oh good, I plan on going camping next weekend". I wanted to ask "with who" soooo badly, but I held my tongue. Just moved on to other topics. Assuming she's going with POSOM, since I don't know who else she knows that would go with her. Again, WHY DO I EVEN F-ING CARE??

Then the funniest sh!t this morning. We were discussing over the phone if she would be taking our daughter to dance tomorrow, and she sounded TERRIBLE. Said they had a big event last night (remember, she works for a tiny catering company) for a local company executive, and said that the staff had been invited to stay and party after they were done serving. Apparently she got drunk and got into a huge argument with somebody (POSOM? who knows) and was asked to leave the party at 3AM. She couldn't drive so just slept in her car and drove herself home this morning. This is one thing I will not miss about her. When she drinks like that she gets to the point where she knows best for everyone and absolutely HAS to tell people about it. 

After I got off the phone with her I couldn't wipe the smile off my face.. Is that mean?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Got a hair cut Wednesday from my long time friend and stylist (the wife of the friend I went canoeing with, let's call her T). They've been there for me through both of my failed marriages and I thank God for having such good people in my life. Anyway there was a new girl in the shop that day, and I thought they might have hired another stylist. Turns out it was just a friend of T's who is single, had come in to get her eyebrows done or something, and they got to talking about me. New girl decided to stick around for my appointment to have a look at me. 

Anyway I didn't get introduced formally, but I wasn't aware of what was going on at the time and didn't ask to. This girl was fairly average. Not bad looking but not the type that would really catch my eye normally. However talking to T last night, I inquired about her again. She said that she is a single mom with a daughter about my daughter's age. Said that she thought of giving the girl my phone number but wasn't sure. That this girl was a bit "obsessed" with getting to know all the details about people but was essentially a good person. 

So I'm stuck with the conundrum. I would dearly LOVE to have a female friend to talk about things with (outside of my married female friends), and just flirt and be happy for a bit. But I didn't feel anything toward this girl when I saw her, and have been told she can be obsessive. Should I have T give her my number and just see how it goes? Or should I stay far far away until my divorce is final and I've had more time to reflect on things?

A good problem to have I suppose..


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Got a hair cut Wednesday from my long time friend and stylist (the wife of the friend I went canoeing with, let's call her T). They've been there for me through both of my failed marriages and I thank God for having such good people in my life. Anyway there was a new girl in the shop that day, and I thought they might have hired another stylist. Turns out it was just a friend of T's who is single, had come in to get her eyebrows done or something, and they got to talking about me. New girl decided to stick around for my appointment to have a look at me.
> 
> Anyway I didn't get introduced formally, but I wasn't aware of what was going on at the time and didn't ask to. This girl was fairly average. Not bad looking but not the type that would really catch my eye normally. However talking to T last night, I inquired about her again. She said that she is a single mom with a daughter about my daughter's age. Said that she thought of giving the girl my phone number but wasn't sure. That this girl was a bit "obsessed" with getting to know all the details about people but was essentially a good person.
> 
> So I'm stuck with the conundrum. I would dearly LOVE to have a female friend to talk about things with (outside of my married female friends), and just flirt and be happy for a bit. But I didn't feel anything toward this girl when I saw her, and have been told she can be obsessive. Should I have T give her my number and just see how it goes? Or should I stay far far away until my divorce is final and I've had more time to reflect on things?
> 
> A good problem to have I suppose..


Might be good practice at boundary-setting.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> As for STBXW, I talked with her about the kids the day after she told me she broke up with POSOM. She was at work, laughing, and I got the feeling they probably patched things up (at least temporarily). Why do I even care?? I talked with her about plans to go canoeing with D7 this weekend (stepson13 was with his dad), and she said "oh good, I plan on going camping next weekend". I wanted to ask "with who" soooo badly, but I held my tongue. Just moved on to other topics. Assuming she's going with POSOM, since I don't know who else she knows that would go with her. Again, WHY DO I EVEN F-ING CARE??
> 
> Then the funniest sh!t this morning. We were discussing over the phone if she would be taking our daughter to dance tomorrow, and she sounded TERRIBLE. Said they had a big event last night (remember, she works for a tiny catering company) for a local company executive, and said that the staff had been invited to stay and party after they were done serving. Apparently she got drunk and got into a huge argument with somebody (POSOM? who knows) and was asked to leave the party at 3AM. She couldn't drive so just slept in her car and drove herself home this morning. This is one thing I will not miss about her. When she drinks like that she gets to the point where she knows best for everyone and absolutely HAS to tell people about it.
> 
> After I got off the phone with her I couldn't wipe the smile off my face.. Is that mean?


She hasn't changed a bit.

They're doomed.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Might be good practice at boundary-setting.


I thought it through a bit more and decided to hold off. Until the D is final I don't want to give her any ammo that could be used against me. I can just hear it now. "Yeah I screwed around on you while we were still married but you talking to another female is taking it too far! I'm going to fight to get D7 now". Not that she would have a leg to stand on but I don't want the drama and right now I have what I want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> She hasn't changed a bit.
> 
> They're doomed.


You're right. And it's like a really bad movie to watch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Wow.. Just got this txt from stbx. "all I can think of all day is just how badly I screwed everything up. I am so sorry." What to do with this? I thought I was getting closer to healing.,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

Night all.. :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

Sorry. How co-dependent am I when I get depressed that people aren't responding to my thread? Pathetic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

Ignore the text
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> Ignore the text
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Easy to say, not so easy to do. I called her. Didn't grovel at all, but just said thanks for acknowledging her wrongdoings. I don't think she misses me but misses her kids and her easy life (if she would have learned to appreciate it). Go ahead, 2x4 me. I don't know what else to say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Easy to say, not so easy to do. I called her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


G-dammit


----------



## GutPunch

G-Dammit
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Sorry guys. Just hurting so much tonight. Need to be able to do IC everyday but can't afford that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

In order to save the your marriage you must
be willing to lose it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I feel so pathetic.... Seriously going to sleep now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Sorry guys. Just hurting so much tonight. Need to be able to do IC everyday but can't afford that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do it here

We don't sleep.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I can't save it. It's over
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I can't save it. It's over
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But, you can save you.

That's totally worth it - even if you don't see it.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

That's what I'm working on now.. Thanks guys/gals
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Wow.. Just got this txt from stbx. "all I can think of all day is just how badly I screwed everything up. I am so sorry." What to do with this? I thought I was getting closer to healing.,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't let it get to you - be strong & go back and read your original post. I know its not easy but you know the truth - don't let her mess up any progress you've made for yourself.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Ok this is gonna sound really freakin weird. With all this crap going on, I had a strange inclination today to look up old girlfriends and first ex wife today. Like I'm not even sure what I would say, but it was a weird feeling for sure. I haven't done it, but wondered if anyone else has had that feeling?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Ok this is gonna sound really freakin weird. With all this crap going on, I had a strange inclination today to look up old girlfriends and first ex wife today. Like I'm not even sure what I would say, but it was a weird feeling for sure. I haven't done it, but wondered if anyone else has had that feeling?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are "ex's" for a reason.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Oh I completely agree. Why would old exes pop into my head at all?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Oh I completely agree. Why would old exes pop into my head at all?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm hopeful because the chains of codependence are loosening.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Appreciate you following up with me Conrad. I'm confused though. How is this the chains of codependence (which I do not dispute, clearly) loosening? Care to expound?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad I never thought I would say this to another man, but I miss you brother. Don't leave me hanging good sir!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Appreciate you following up with me Conrad. I'm confused though. How is this the chains of codependence (which I do not dispute, clearly) loosening? Care to expound?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The fact that you are thinking of other women is an indication that your world is no longer 100% dependent (as in co-dependent) on pleasing your wife and getting her approval.

In my own journey, I now find I notice women much much more than before. At 50,000 feet, you'd be shocked how many gorgeous women there actually are.

My wife's subconscious response to this is to work to get my attention on her. And, I oblige.

If I was to talk to all the men on this forum who moan about how their wives never initiate, I'd type exactly these paragraphs.

Make sense?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Makes a lot of sense. 

So, let me confuse this whole situation even further. After exposing the affair, doing the 180, her life imploding after moving out, it's all working. Too well I think. Her and POSOM are split up. She was fired from that job, but has a new one lined up already since she was looking for supplementary work anyway. Her sister tells me yesterday that she's having second thoughts (finally out of the fog!) about all this and many regrets. I read on here about people going through months and months of separation. I offered that to her in the beginning and told her that if she had any doubts at all, let's call it a separation, but she told me no, I want a D. So I filed. I wasn't about to put up with the BS and be even more of a doormat. Now we're probably only a week or so from it all being a done deal, and I'm worried I moved too fast. I think I did all of the right things, but did I move too fast on the D? 

Feeling confused. One part of me thinks I could never trust her again, and one part of me wants to let her live alone for few months and see if she can get counselling, work through her issues and be a better person. I'm too compassionate of a human being sometimes. She called me this morning bawling, saying that if it weren't for the kids she would probably not want to live anymore. Suicidal stuff. I don't really think she would do anything but it's scaring me..


----------



## Conrad

Is she fully aware of the schedule for the D?

Or does it catch her by surprise when the dates come up?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I'm not sure if she's fully aware of anything right now. I told her the other day that my attorney almost has everything done with the paperwork, but I don't know for sure if it hit home with her how close it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I'm not sure if she's fully aware of anything right now. I told her the other day that my attorney almost has everything done with the paperwork, but I don't know for sure if it hit home with her how close it is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Quietly call him and tell him to put it on the bottom of the pile for a few weeks.

Keep observing - and stay the course.

DO NOT reach out to her.


----------



## Tron

Conrad said:


> The fact that you are thinking of other women is an indication that your world is no longer 100% dependent (as in co-dependent) on pleasing your wife and getting her approval.
> 
> In my own journey, I now find I notice women much much more than before. At 50,000 feet, you'd be shocked how many gorgeous women there actually are.
> 
> My wife's subconscious response to this is to work to get my attention on her. And, I oblige.
> 
> If I was to talk to all the men on this forum who moan about how their wives never initiate, I'd type exactly these paragraphs.
> 
> Make sense?


So, the fine line me and my buds discuss is how to "notice" without being disrespectful to the W. Be discreet, simply notice with an extra long glance in front of her or ogle. The question is what is the best way to kick her subconscious response into gear without an anger response?


----------



## Conrad

Tron said:


> So, the fine line me and my buds discuss is how to "notice" without being disrespectful to the W. Be discreet, simply notice with an extra long glance in front of her or ogle. The question is what is the best way to kick her subconscious response into gear without an anger response?


It's a subconscious reaction - of hers - to your new confidence.

No need to be lecherous.

But, you're smiling all the time, looking your best, and women find you attractive. That's part of this dynamic also.


----------



## Tron

TheGoodGuy said:


> Makes a lot of sense.
> 
> So, let me confuse this whole situation even further. After exposing the affair, doing the 180, her life imploding after moving out, it's all working. Too well I think. Her and POSOM are split up. She was fired from that job, but has a new one lined up already since she was looking for supplementary work anyway. Her sister tells me yesterday that she's having second thoughts (finally out of the fog!) about all this and many regrets. I read on here about people going through months and months of separation. I offered that to her in the beginning and told her that if she had any doubts at all, let's call it a separation, but she told me no, I want a D. So I filed. I wasn't about to put up with the BS and be even more of a doormat. Now we're probably only a week or so from it all being a done deal, and I'm worried I moved too fast. I think I did all of the right things, but did I move too fast on the D?
> 
> Feeling confused. One part of me thinks I could never trust her again, and one part of me wants to let her live alone for few months and see if she can get counselling, work through her issues and be a better person. I'm too compassionate of a human being sometimes. She called me this morning bawling, saying that if it weren't for the kids she would probably not want to live anymore. Suicidal stuff. I don't really think she would do anything but it's scaring me..


GG,

If you are worried at all that this is moving too fast, then slow it down. Don't have regrets. You are only talking about a little time here. 

Conrad is right, your attorney can easily do this by shelving everything temporarily. The day before Gutpunch's divorce was to be final, his W went into rehab and he had his attorney shut the D down. It can still go through any time with a simple phone call. The courts don't care one way or the other.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thanks Conrad and Tron. After her talk of suicide this morning, I went to see her during my lunch break. I did not want my kids growing up knowing that their mother had offed herself. 
2x4 me later. 

She cried and cried and said that she was so lonely without me and the kids. Such a huge mistake she made and it's all her fault. She's spiralling badly (which I know I have to let her do that). She asked me if I would let her come back. I said I didn't know if I could ever trust her again. I said IF it happened it would only be on my terms. I mentioned counselling again, and she said she couldn't afford it. Then I told her I cannot be with an alcoholic. Watched her walk to the sink and pour out the liquor she had in the freezer. 

I don't know. that may have been just show. I need to see actions. Get her priorities straight and CHOOSE to get help (I can't afford it is no excuse. figure out a way. Use the money you would have used for booze). No one can do it for her. I honestly can't see her actually doing it though. I'm keeping the D train moving full steam. If by some freaking miracle she starts to do the heavy lifting and moves mountains and truly starts turning things around over the next several months, well, we'll see where I'm at in life and if we should think about getting to know each other again.

As hard as it is to say this to myself, I have to let this D go through to protect myself and my kids from this woman that I no longer know.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thanks Conrad and Tron. After her talk of suicide this morning, I went to see her during my lunch break.












How will she ever hit bottom if you keep rescuing?

Narcissists aren't in the habit of offing themselves.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Is there something I should text or email to her that makes it clear once and for all that will stop her from trying to lure me in?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Or just stay Dark? We have to talk sometimes regarding kids...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Or just stay Dark? We have to talk sometimes regarding kids...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That wasn't what you were talking about today.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Yes. I ****ed up today. I will get back on the horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

TheGoodGuy said:


> Is there something I should text or email to her that makes it clear once and for all that will stop her from trying to lure me in?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't say, do.

Go Dark. 

She'll never have the chance to miss you if you're always around when she needs you.

Let her fall.


----------



## warlock07

> She says that she married me for the wrong reasons (I was so good to her young son, her parents loved me, etc) and never had the guts to say anything because I provided for them so well and was such a loving husband and father. Says she needs to figure out who she is and take care of herself for a while to prove that she can (but yet wants to be "roommates" with this OM after she gets her stuff out of this house????).
> 
> She has always been rather.. um.. not sure of the word here.. wishy washy? One month she wants to try this line of work, the next she doesn't.





> She cried and cried and said that she was so lonely without me and the kids. Such a huge mistake she made and it's all her fault. She's spiralling badly



So much for finding herself. This is not even a week after the OM dumped her. This woman has serious issues. 


Make sure she is not using you for rebound after her relationship with OM failed.. 

Just read your posts again. Observe how she changed...


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I'm reading through the GutPunch saga at the moment, and am now to the point where his W is heading to rehab. I'm torn as I read through this. In my situation, my wife has asked for help before too. Back in January/February timeframe. She wanted to go to rehab (for her eating disorder.. hadn't started really heavily drinking until that point). I called around but she had to be diagnosed first by a therapist before they would admit her. So she went to one counselling session and never went back. The affair started not long after that. 

I know she needs some help. Rehab may be the best thing for her. From everything I read here she has to be the one to take the action to seek help right? So that I'm not "rescuing" her?


----------



## Tron

Maybe I am in the minority here, but I would suggest getting a message to her that the only way you will even consider not divorcing her is if she checks herself into rehab for both her eating disorder and the alcohol problem and starts counseling immediately. It doesn't mean you have to follow through and R. You might be doing her a favor. Oh and she pays for it.

Kind of sad that I keep saying "I know a friend" or "someone in my family" who has had a similar problem, but the XW of a very close friend of mind checked herself into a facility for precisely those reasons. Was anorexic/bulemic, marriage had been on the rocks for a long time, she lost her job as a school teacher when she got caught drinking out in the parking lot at lunchtime, very very sad situation.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thanks T. How did things turn out for that her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

They did not have kids and my friend had been dealing with her issues for close to 10 years. Lots of resentment in the marriage. He cheated on her. They divorced.

This happened about 4 or 5 years ago. I think when all this went down she was around 50 years old. She had had the disorder since she was a young teen. The rehab helped her with it, but her health has been steadily going downhill from so many years with the disease. She has brittle bones and I honestly don't think she'll live to 60...maybe 65 at the most. Knees and hips failing. 

Not sure if you have kids or not, but if you have a daughter, your WW needs to get treated. Eating disorders are insidious and I've read that the frequency of passing it on from generation to generation is very high.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Yes, we have a D6 together. I'm gonna have to really watch this. Any other opinions on Tron's suggestion TAMers?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tron

Yes you will. 

Just a warning, all it takes is a few "harmless" comments from you or the W to make your D self conscious and set her on that path.


----------



## Awakening2012

TheGoodGuy said:


> I'm reading through the GutPunch saga at the moment, and am now to the point where his W is heading to rehab. I'm torn as I read through this. In my situation, my wife has asked for help before too. Back in January/February timeframe. She wanted to go to rehab (for her eating disorder.. hadn't started really heavily drinking until that point). I called around but she had to be diagnosed first by a therapist before they would admit her. So she went to one counselling session and never went back. The affair started not long after that.
> 
> I know she needs some help. Rehab may be the best thing for her. From everything I read here she has to be the one to take the action to seek help right? So that I'm not "rescuing" her?


Hi GG -

Just chimining in here, having perused your thread -- thanks for all that you have shared, and I'm sorry for what you've been through, but you've really made some good progress. It is striking, after being on TAM for awhile, how eerily similar many of the story lines are (variations of the same progression of events, stages, etc). I'm glad to hear you read GP's thread, as it may resonate with you. Also like GP, having children may provide added incentive not to shut the door completely on the possibility of R, IF she does the heavy lifting, but meanwhile move forward as if D is happening and don't jump back in too quickly. I'm sorry you've been so badly treated -- you did not deserve this. But your WS is sick, and you are correct, no one can rescue her. She has to want to get well for herself. 

Meanwhile, you get the opoprtunity to work on detachment and on loving and valuing yourself and your children. I'm no expert, but I feel like the healthiset marriages are the ones in which both spouses love themselves as much or more than they do each other. They enjoy each other, but do not depend on each other in order to feel good about themselves. I hope you get the chance to get to that place, and restore the marriage if that's what you want.

Kind Regards, - A12


----------



## Awakening2012

Tron said:


> Maybe I am in the minority here, but I would suggest getting a message to her that the only way you will even consider not divorcing her is if she checks herself into rehab for both her eating disorder and the alcohol problem and starts counseling immediately. It doesn't mean you have to follow through and R. You might be doing her a favor.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thanks again Tron and A12. Email sent. Let's see if she responds.


----------



## Tron

GG,

As for her response, I wouldn't waste any emotional energy on it. She has to own her problems and take responsibility. Chuck71 gave his XW the option to do counseling or D. She walked past the paperwork for close to a month and never lifted a finger to get help...the end. D followed. She continues to spiral down. 

I don't know if you can ever get past what she did to you or get over what she said. There may not be anything to salvage with her, regardless of whether she gets well or not. Everyone has their own breaking point of what they will and will not accept. You may already be there. If so, consider it a push to help her be a better mom for the kids and walk away.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Well said. I talked with my dad today about it. He echoed what my IC and you all have said all along. That I deserve better. That I have a lot to offer someone and happiness is out there. Time to work on me for a while and take care of my daughter. I felt a ton better. I love that old guy, he's taught me well. (And you all as well)

Stbx called me to finalize plans to get the kids this weekend. You heard right. Her new job has a tighter schedule and she finally has two consecutive days off in a row. This will be the first time in 3 weeks I'll be alone by myself. Trying to come up with some stuff to do. Anyways... I did not talk about anything else. I was cool, calm dispassionate. I did not mention the email. Pretty proud of myself actually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

Is it codependent of me to sit here and wonder why no one has posted to my thread in a few hours? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

I just reread your thread. 

You have done well....Your's is a familiar story here on TAM. 

Let me ask you this? Has your wife always pushed the boundaries within your marriage? Is she an alcoholic?

You are clearly a codependent rescuer/fixer nice guy.

YOU MUST FIX THIS.

No more rescuing the STBXW. How did her first marriage end? 
If she is a narcissist, marriage will always be difficult. 

One thing that helped me was that I learned to be still.
Sit back and watch what happens. You don't have to make any
decisions today. Stop being there for her and sit back relax and watch what happens. 

When OM's wife reached out to you, why did you run? 

I would played this card to the hilt. Let OM ride the pain train. 

Good luck, I'll be watching with the lumber waiting.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Well said. I talked with my dad today about it. He echoed what my IC and you all have said all along. That I deserve better. That I have a lot to offer someone and happiness is out there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're both wrong.

It's inside you.

Let it out.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Is it codependent of me to sit here and wonder why no one has posted to my thread in a few hours?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, but it indicates you need to get busy living your life.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> Let me ask you this? Has your wife always pushed the boundaries within your marriage? Is she an alcoholic?
> Yes. I never set proper boundaries throughout our marriage. We frequently drank together, but it didn't start getting really bad until last year when she quit her job and was being a SAHM.
> 
> You are clearly a codependent rescuer/fixer nice guy.
> 
> YOU MUST FIX THIS.
> You are absolutely correct. Working on it.
> 
> No more rescuing the STBXW. How did her first marriage end?
> If she is a narcissist, marriage will always be difficult.
> Her first marriage ended with a separation from her husband and then divorce. It was fairly messy. She got pregnant at 17, he was 18, they got married because of the child. Those stories rarely end well.
> 
> One thing that helped me was that I learned to be still.
> Sit back and watch what happens. You don't have to make any
> decisions today. Stop being there for her and sit back relax and watch what happens.
> I will put this to work.
> 
> 
> When OM's wife reached out to you, why did you run?
> I reached out to her first. She knew all about the affair already (or at least part of the story). She had been cheating on the OM as well, and I assume he was getting revenge on her by sleeping with my wife. I didn't mean to say I ran from her.. Just that I didn't see a point to continuing the conversation if they had already screwed up their own marriage and I needed to start getting over mine.
> 
> I would played this card to the hilt. Let OM ride the pain train.
> That door isn't closed if I need to do more. You have something in mind?
> 
> Good luck, I'll be watching with the lumber waiting.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> You're both wrong.
> 
> It's inside you.
> 
> Let it out.


You are correct. I said it wrong. He said there is a happy guy in there, and that someone would come along and see the happiness and everything I have going for me and say "I want me some of that!"


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> No, but it indicates you need to get busy living your life.


Yep. Getting there.


----------



## GutPunch

Look...I'm not saying sleep with her. 

Just feel her out. Let her confide in you. 

Good way to pee on OM's territory. 

Even worse than a punch in the face.

F him. Make him sweat.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Look...I'm not saying sleep with her.
> 
> Just feel her out. Let her confide in you.
> 
> Good way to pee on OM's territory.
> 
> Even worse than a punch in the face.
> 
> F him. Make him sweat.


Take her out for coffee.

Make sure your wife knows you did it.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Does any of this even matter now that my stbx is no longer with this guy? I'd like to forget he ever existed, although he is going to be moving into the same apartment complex as her.. Nothing says they won't rekindle their "fog" after the D is final.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Or before...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Does any of this even matter now that my stbx is no longer with this guy? I'd like to forget he ever existed, although he is going to be moving into the same apartment complex as her.. Nothing says they won't rekindle their "fog" after the D is final.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Depends on whether you want to maximize her respect for you.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I see.. Nothing stopping me from having a simple coffee. I'll see if POSOMW is up for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Hey....I know you said they were done.

Did you know she is a proven liar. 

Do not believe a word that comes out of her mouth. 

They may be thru....but I would operate as if they were still together.

Coffee and war stories. Sounds fun to me.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

That's my montra right now. She's proven to be a liar, no matter how much I believed her before. It's f-Ed up, because since I exposed the affair (to her first, then to everybody) she had been the one to tell on herself. I would have had to dig to prove the PA, she admitted it without me asking. She told me about the f-up at work, that she had been fired, that the fight had led to a breakup. But I'm not convinced they're done. Which is why I'm done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Damnit this is hard. Seriously tell me straight. I know I need to change, I really do. I CANNOT let myself get walked on again. I know that. But at the same time I feel like I'm being fake. 

The D is happening, I know that. But I'm second guessing myself in every move I make. GP, you told me to be still and observe. I'm just not good at that right now. Let me give the forum an example:

D7 has a dance recital coming up on June 9th. Received email from dance studio that tickets went on sale today. It would break D7's heart if her Mother was not there. So I initially typed this email up: "Are you off work on June 9th to come to D7 dance recital?" That sounded too indecisive and needy in my head, so I erased that and sent "I am buying us tickets to this. You have Sundays off, correct?". A bit more Alpha I thought. Even if it's over I expect and demand that she be there, right? 
Here is her reply: "Yes. What do they cost and I'll pay you for mine and SS13." My stupid gut reaction is to say "I got this, don't worry about it". But my oh so new MMSLP and TAM training tell me she needs to pay for her ****. I have not replied yet. Please visualize the turmoil in my mind. Old self says to just take care of it to ensure she comes, TAM training and 180 says to be cool, calm, dispassionate and ignore. God I'm so confused by all of this. It's so unnatural for me. I'm trying really hard but am so afraid I'm making all the wrong moves and trying to be someone I'm not. I can't deal with this second guessing myself all the time.

Don't get me wrong. I WANT to change myself. I NEED to change myself. I CANNOT go through this a third time after losing a child, two wives, and now a stepson who I raised for a decade. This pain is nearly unbearable. I ****ing hate this rollercoaster!!!! I was so unprepared for it.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Jeeesuusss.. There is nothing like your daughter screaming out "MAAAAMMMMAAAAAAA!!!!!!" late at night to get your heart beat going. I ran to her, but she was already back asleep. This poor child. I pray with her every night. She's getting the worst of all of this. My heart hurts. Literally. And yet I know not what to do. I'm a grown man and this hurts me so much.. I cannot imagine what thoughts are going through her head. 

I have to be strong for her... Trying...


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Duplicate post


----------



## Bullwinkle

GoodGuy

I too woke up a while ago to a screaming daughter, desperately calling out for a mama that wasn't there. I hugged her, I gave her some warm Ovaltine, I read Green Eggs and Ham to her. She finally fell back asleep. Then I sat there and cried like a baby, big tears of rage and frustration and indescribable hurt. 

All I can offer you is to not second guess yourself too much. All of this TAM stuff and doing the 180 is all well and good but there are times that call for no-SHYT anger and calling someone out for f**king you over.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Don't get me wrong. I WANT to change myself. I NEED to change myself. I CANNOT go through this a third time after losing a child, two wives, and now a stepson who I raised for a decade. This pain is nearly unbearable. I ****ing hate this rollercoaster!!!! I was so unprepared for it.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/68411-submitting-truth.html

GG - Have you read Anthony DeMello's "Awareness"?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/68411-submitting-truth.html
> 
> GG - Have you read Anthony DeMello's "Awareness"?


The submitting to the truth thread is a good read. I have A LOT to work on about myself. It all feels so.. unnatural. Which is the point I suppose. This is going to be a long journey. Wish I would have figured it out years ago and could go on this journey with my wife, while she figured out her own self happiness as well instead of turning to alcohol and other men. Wasn't meant to be I guess.

I have not read Awareness but will look it up now.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I have not read Awareness but will look it up now.


You're at the point where Awareness will make sense to you now.

I hear plenty of desperation in your writing about how "many" failures and your fear of failure this time is hurting you.

DeMello calls those "labels"

Here's the link. Let's talk about it.

http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/tonyawareness.pdf


----------



## ReGroup

Google it with "pdf" after it.

Great read.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Bullwinkle said:


> GoodGuy
> 
> I too woke up a while ago to a screaming daughter, desperately calling out for a mama that wasn't there. I hugged her, I gave her some warm Ovaltine, I read Green Eggs and Ham to her. She finally fell back asleep. Then I sat there and cried like a baby, big tears of rage and frustration and indescribable hurt.
> 
> All I can offer you is to not second guess yourself too much. All of this TAM stuff and doing the 180 is all well and good but there are times that call for no-SHYT anger and calling someone out for f**king you over.


Thanks BW. I'm trying not to second guess myself too much, but my first instinct is usually exactly the opposite of what I'm learning here. Like I just said above, just unnatural for me. It's hard to teach a medium aged dog new tricks.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> You're at the point where Awareness will make sense to you now.
> 
> I hear plenty of desperation in your writing about how "many" failures and your fear of failure this time is hurting you.
> 
> DeMello calls those "labels"
> 
> Here's the link. Let's talk about it.
> 
> http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/tonyawareness.pdf


Profound stuff already. "The fact is that you don’t like to say, “My judgment was lousy.” That’s not very
flattering to you, is it? So you prefer to
say, “How could you have let me down?” "

Spot on...


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Profound stuff already. "The fact is that you don’t like to say, “My judgment was lousy.” That’s not very
> flattering to you, is it? So you prefer to
> say, “How could you have let me down?” "
> 
> Spot on...


Don't get frustrated if you have to read some paragraphs a few times to get what he's saying.

These are the exact words he used in his seminars, so it's written like he's lecturing you - because he is.

Take your time. Drink it in. Then claim your happiness.

You are very close.


----------



## Awakening2012

TheGoodGuy said:


> Profound stuff already. "The fact is that you don’t like to say, “My judgment was lousy.” That’s not very
> flattering to you, is it? So you prefer to
> say, “How could you have let me down?” "
> 
> Spot on...


I finally started digging in the the DeMello book, and finding it super insightful and pragmatic -- thank you, Conrad, for continually ,putting these "must read" books out there to spend recovery and Awakening!

Cheers, A12


----------



## Conrad

Awakening2012 said:


> I finally started digging in the the DeMello book, and finding it super insightful and pragmatic -- thank you, Conrad, for continually ,putting these "must read" books out there to spend recovery and Awakening!
> 
> Cheers, A12


A12,

You are very close as well.

Do not forget this is a process.

Respect it, forgive yourself, and start to live.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Still reading "Awareness". Some of it is a bit deep for me, but I'm getting the gist of it. Spoke with my IC today, and we had a good discussion about boundaries. She even gave me a book called Boundaries to borrow and read. I'll read it when I'm done with Awareness. Anyone read or know about Boundaries? She said she just had it given to her and has not read it yet, but had heard it was a good one.

Had an interesting thought tonight. I've been off of Facebook for a couple of years.. but got back on a couple of weeks ago to reconnect with some people. It got me thinking. My STBX always got jealous of other females throughout the years. For instance when we got together at the beginning, she wanted me to stop talking to a particular female friend that I was fairly close to. She was worried that this particular friend would get me in a compromising position and I would fold. I told the friend that my fiance was uncomfortable with us talking and stopped talking to her. All through my marriage I have always been conscious to not get too close to other female friends. 1000% focused on my wife. 

Ironic that she was always worried about other woman seducing me, and yet look what happened, no? Wish I had some non-married woman friends today, but I pushed them all away.


----------



## smallsteps

Mine did the same - we got married & I broke ties with male & female friends. He was always jealous of me being too friendly with other guys & when I joined facebook in 2009 he couldn't understand why I was in touch with guys I went to school with. In the end he cheated & moved in with the ow - it is ironic isn't it - after all they're worrying about us - they went off & did exactly what they were afraid we would do to them


----------



## smallsteps

Sorry I meant their. Oh and I did reconnect with all my friends from 25 years ago after he left. It was a great feeling to know after all that time they were still there for me like no time had passed


----------



## TheGoodGuy

It makes me sick SS. How much time and energy we poured into making our spouses happy, years of our life, and this is what we get for it. 

I'm trying to look at it this way: poor judgement on my part. I did not know her well enough and did not know (and still learning) how to set boundaries. We met and were married in 9 months. I'm convinced now that that is just too short of a period of time to truly know someone. If there is another Mrs. GG in my future, I will take things MUCH more slowly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> It makes me sick SS. How much time and energy we poured into making our spouses happy, years of our life, and this is what we get for it.
> 
> I'm trying to look at it this way: poor judgement on my part. I did not know her well enough and did not know (and still learning) how to set boundaries. We met and were married in 9 months. I'm convinced now that that is just too short of a period of time to truly know someone. If there is another Mrs. GG in my future, I will take things MUCH more slowly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Same here - I met him a year and a half before we married. We were coworkers but never knew him that well & he left the company a couple of months after I started. When he came back we became casual friends for a few months but in February of 88 we started dating (I was 19) by march he asked me to marry him - engaged April 1st - married July 9th- I turned 20 that September & found out I was pregnant with our 1st child 2 weeks later. Everything went very fast.


----------



## smallsteps

You are right - that's been bothering me this week for some reason - all the years I put into this marriage & in one conversation he was able to walk away. It amazes me but also re enforces my decision that I would never take him back. All we can do is work on ourselves & make us better people that we're happy being. We cant look back on our lives with them.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Yep, that marriage is dead and gone. I'm starting to feel more confident in myself already.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

That's good that you're making peace with that part of your life. After you realize that it makes it easier to start to move on. Just stick to your boundaries. I made the mistake of letting mine down a bit a few weeks ago & suddenly he started getting too chummy & I'm not at a place to be his friend - I don't know if I ever will be. I need to distance myself again


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Here's an event I want to share with the forum and get feedback if you have any..

After the counseling appointment today, I took my D7 to a restaurant early in the afternoon. We had not had lunch yet and we were both hungry (I have today and tomorrow off to be with her). The waitress that was working was no stunner, but had BEAUTIFUL eyes. I could not stop looking at her. So after the meal when she dropped off our check, I told her so. "You have beautiful eyes by the way" and just gazed into them. She blushed and said "Thank you so much, no really, thank you". As I signed for the credit card receipt, I left my number at the bottom. 

Then I remembered to look at her ring finger.. Bingo, there was a ring. I was feeling so confident about complementing her and giving her my number, but so terrible for just flirting with an apparently married woman. Maybe it was just the way waitresses normally act to get big tips, and maybe I'm just super sensitive right now to any sort of positive female interaction. But I felt bad. Like if she actually called or texted me, what would I do? "Look, I really would like to get to know you, but I just got cheated on and I would not want to be the OM in another woman's life."???


----------



## smallsteps

In my opinion yeah that's what you would do if she called. Look at it this way - if she did call or text you what would that say about her character? Do you want your next girlfriend to be someone like that? And yes you're right all waitresses are friendly - if they weren't would you tip them?


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## TheGoodGuy

You're right SS.. I was on such a high and then saw her ring and sagged... LOL


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Here's an event I want to share with the forum and get feedback if you have any..
> 
> After the counseling appointment today, I took my D7 to a restaurant early in the afternoon. We had not had lunch yet and we were both hungry (I have today and tomorrow off to be with her). The waitress that was working was no stunner, but had BEAUTIFUL eyes. I could not stop looking at her. So after the meal when she dropped off our check, I told her so. "You have beautiful eyes by the way" and just gazed into them. She blushed and said "Thank you so much, no really, thank you". As I signed for the credit card receipt, I left my number at the bottom.
> 
> Then I remembered to look at her ring finger.. Bingo, there was a ring. I was feeling so confident about complementing her and giving her my number, but so terrible for just flirting with an apparently married woman. Maybe it was just the way waitresses normally act to get big tips, and maybe I'm just super sensitive right now to any sort of positive female interaction. But I felt bad. Like if she actually called or texted me, what would I do? "Look, I really would like to get to know you, but I just got cheated on and I would not want to be the OM in another woman's life."???


Quite a few women wear rings to ward off unwanted attention.

Give yourself a break.


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> You're right SS.. I was on such a high and then saw her ring and sagged... LOL


Don't beat yourself up over it - you did nothing wrong. Its nice to get attention from the opposite sex when we're in this position. Heck there's a guy in the supermarket that says hello to me every time I'm in there - he has a ring on - I also noticed hes really nice to everyone lol!! But it makes me feel good to smile & say hello. Just step back a little don't be in a rush to validate yourself by running out & trying to find someone right away enjoy a smile or a glance for now& let it build your confidence. Enjoy the small things - big things will come later


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## TheGoodGuy

Understood SS and Conrad. I appreciate you tremendously. I'm not trying to rush things but I just couldn't help myself but comment in those eyes. They were piercing and gorgeous.. And I don't necessarily hand out compliments so easily. Like I said above, I'm not used to this as I was 1 million percent focused on 1 person before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Understood SS and Conrad. I appreciate you tremendously. I'm not trying to rush things but I just couldn't help myself but comment in those eyes. They were piercing and gorgeous.. And I don't necessarily hand out compliments so easily. Like I said above, I'm not used to this as I was 1 million percent focused on 1 person before.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing wrong with paying a compliment lol!! All girls - married or not enjoy them. The same way men enjoy getting a look or smile or compliment from a woman. Like I said - look at it as practice don't take too much to heart right now.


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## smallsteps

One other thing - sometimes the little things will turn into big things. I have a friend who's marriage fell apart. The same thing happened to her neighbor his wife left him & the kids -they became friends - wound up leaning on each other & helping each other through their divorces & now blended their families & have been together for a while. I figured that story would give you a little hope - I know her story gives me hope that happy stories like that still happen once in a while.


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## TheGoodGuy

Awesome SS. Who knows what's in store for me next. The new chapter is beginning though. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bullwinkle

GoodGuy

Will you go back to that restaurant?


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## TheGoodGuy

BW, sure, I like that restaurant and would go back. She said "Come back and see me, ok?" as we were leaving. But that's the normal thing for a waitress to say, no? I'm trying not to read too much into it.
Meanwhile OMW has agreed to coffee. Setting up time/place now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> BW, sure, I like that restaurant and would go back. She said "Come back and see me, ok?" as we were leaving. But that's the normal thing for a waitress to say, no? I'm trying not to read too much into it.
> Meanwhile OMW has agreed to coffee. Setting up time/place now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Certainly, go back and see her.

Make sure you sit at her table.

If she's making eye contact and friendly, tell her you saw her ring after giving her your number last time and you're wondering if the ring is "for real"

What have you got to lose?

Good luck with posOMW.

Give us an update.


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## TheGoodGuy

I'll go back this coming weekend after I get paid. Have no idea what her work schedule is though, so it'll be a crap shoot whether or not she's there. No biggie though.

On the other front, apparently I've pissed off the POSOM! After emailing his wife to check on her and see about getting coffee, we reeled off a few more details of what had gone on during "the event" where STBXW got in a fight and was fired from her job. She tells me that he had sat down with a girl to chat, and my STBXW saw them and flew into a jealous rage! I asked STBX about it when she stopped by to see D7 last night, and she confirmed it. She asked my why I was still talking to POSOM's wife.. I told her that I deserved to know all the details, even though we're divorcing. I don't think they are together at the moment but I'm sure the opportunity will present itself when he moves into the same apartment complex as her. If he's smart he'll see the craziness and not get involved with her at all. (Why do I even care? So much anger still with regard to that, but getting better..)

Anyways... POSOMW emailed me today something like "Did you tell STBX we have been talking? POSOM knows we have been talking. Now hes pissed and he just left. But he shouldn't be pissed about that. I think you have a right to know the truth, and so do I." I'm not sure why he would be pissed since he knew we were talking back and forth, but I guess I pissed him off!


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## TheGoodGuy

By the way, I'm really enjoying reading "Boundaries". I have a lot of work to do, but I will get there.


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I'll go back this coming weekend after I get paid. Have no idea what her work schedule is though, so it'll be a crap shoot whether or not she's there. No biggie though.
> 
> On the other front, apparently I've pissed off the POSOM! After emailing his wife to check on her and see about getting coffee, we reeled off a few more details of what had gone on during "the event" where STBXW got in a fight and was fired from her job. She tells me that he had sat down with a girl to chat, and my STBXW saw them and flew into a jealous rage! I asked STBX about it when she stopped by to see D7 last night, and she confirmed it. She asked my why I was still talking to POSOM's wife.. I told her that I deserved to know all the details, even though we're divorcing. I don't think they are together at the moment but I'm sure the opportunity will present itself when he moves into the same apartment complex as her. If he's smart he'll see the craziness and not get involved with her at all. (Why do I even care? So much anger still with regard to that, but getting better..)
> 
> Anyways... POSOMW emailed me today something like "Did you tell STBX we have been talking? POSOM knows we have been talking. Now hes pissed and he just left. But he shouldn't be pissed about that. I think you have a right to know the truth, and so do I." I'm not sure why he would be pissed since he knew we were talking back and forth, but I guess I pissed him off!


And, you are feeling so much better now.

Make sure you tell us how the coffee conversation goes.


----------



## warlock07

Her suicide talk was just seeking sympathy and attention. She should be embarrassed now that she knows you know the details. She probably got into another fight with her OM for telling this to his wife.

Curious what she did in a jealous rage to get fired?


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## warlock07

> She asked my why I was still talking to POSOM's wife..


Why is it her business?


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## Conrad

warlock07 said:


> Why is it her business?


A- FRICKIN'- MEN

When you fire someone, you lose the right to ask that crap.


----------



## Conrad

warlock07 said:


> Her suicide talk was just seeking sympathy and attention. She should be embarrassed now that she knows you know the details. She probably got into another fight with her OM for telling this to his wife.
> 
> Curious what she did in a jealous rage to get fired?


It just isn't working out the way she "knew" it would.

Take a bow Good Guy.

Do not forget this.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

warlock07 said:


> Curious what she did in a jealous rage to get fired?


From what I've pieced together from info from her, POSOMW, and a brother in law that works with someone who was there, she got into an argument with POSOM and the people there seriously thought they were going to get violent with each other. So they asked them to leave. This tells me that it was pretty bad, because if there's one thing my STBXW never was, was violent. And it was pretty rare to even get into a really bad argument with her until the last six months or so.


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## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> A- FRICKIN'- MEN
> 
> When you fire someone, you lose the right to ask that crap.


Totally freaking agree. I've even started using that phrase "you fired me as a husband, so you don't get to dictate xyz anymore". Ahhh.. how liberating..


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> It just isn't working out the way she "knew" it would.
> 
> Take a bow Good Guy.
> 
> Do not forget this.


:allhail: Couldn't find one with me bowing, but hopefully this will do. I CANNOT thank this place enough for supporting me through all of this. The journey isn't over, but you've helped me a long way.


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## TheGoodGuy

So, an update about why POSOM was pissed. Over the weekend my sister and BIL came over. They had heard from another BIL who worked with someone that has two part time jobs, one at the catering company and one with my BIL. Said he was there that night and saw them getting into the pool, apparently skinny dipping. Of course I'm hearing the 3rd or 4th hand at this point, so who knows what the truth is. STBX had said a couple of weeks ago that they'd gone swimming, but knowing her she wouldn't have gotten naked in front of a bunch of strangers. Anyway that's why POSOM was pissed, that this guy was telling lies about them going skinny dipping. 

It doesn't matter. They ****ed up, their paying for it. Just wanted to give the update.


----------



## smallsteps

Wow - messed up. Well you know what- I'm going to tell you what everyone tells me - don't get caught up in their gossip & drama cause you know what - its not worth your time or energy. Just worry about what's going on with you & you're kids. You'll be better off in the long run.


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## TheGoodGuy

Thanks SS. For some reason I would feel so much better if she didn't end up with HIM. It shouldn't matter but it does. To me anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thanks SS. For some reason I would feel so much better if she didn't end up with HIM. It shouldn't matter but it does. To me anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In that respect I have to agree with you - I feel the same way. It shouldn't matter but it does. Lets face it we all want to see karma do her thing!! I could get along with mine if I knew they were over but knowing hes still with her - no deal.


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> From what I've pieced together from info from her, POSOMW, and a brother in law that works with someone who was there, she got into an argument with POSOM and the people there seriously thought they were going to get violent with each other. So they asked them to leave. This tells me that it was pretty bad, because if there's one thing my STBXW never was, was violent. And it was pretty rare to even get into a really bad argument with her until the last six months or so.


Yes... posOM... a Renaissance Man.


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## TheGoodGuy

Had kind of a cruddy day today. Having trouble staying focused on work. Before d-day (well actually before she started the catering job), other than a few few medium sized arguments and red flags that I conveniently swept under the rug, I was content in my own little cozy codependent world. I could focus on work and know that I would come home to a loving wife and kids and relax. Or just be busy with kids sports and activities, but at least we did them as a family. I think I'm getting over HER fairly well, but miss having a companion in the evening to talk to, touch, and do things together with the kids. Now it's just me and D7 (step-son13 moved out with and is splitting time with her and his dad). I love my daughter dearly, but it's just not the same cozy little rut I was used to. At work I have a fairly analytical job, and it's hard not to keep reading on TAM or other sites and focus on my growing list of things I used to be completely on top of. It's worrying me a little bit. If I had a physical job or one that took less mental ability, I would just pop in headphones and listen to audiobooks/music. Which is why my house is so much cleaner than when she was here. After daughter goes to bed I just put on music and clean, pretty mindless but it keeps my mind off things. I'm just not getting that satisfied feeling from busting my hump (or mind as it were) at work and feeling appreciated when I get home (codependency, yes?).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

Internally, we need a slight adjustment here:

Immerse yourself in your work.

It's therapeutic.

Make a conscious decision to be warm and vibrant to everyone you meet. Work hard on what you need to do.

See what happens.

This is exactly what I did.

The results are amazing.


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## TheGoodGuy

I'm trying. Today is better, but it's forced. Like I said, before all this all I had to focus on was work so it was natural and easy. Now I have so much running through my mind all day it's more difficult. Being warm and vibrant is no problem. I have not stopped that. My problem is probably that I have an office to myself (my employees are in a room together adjacent to it). Maybe I should just go sit in there with them sometimes. They would hate it but perhaps it would do me good. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I'm trying. Today is better, but it's forced. Like I said, before all this all I had to focus on was work so it was natural and easy. Now I have so much running through my mind all day it's more difficult. Being warm and vibrant is no problem. I have not stopped that. My problem is probably that I have an office to myself (my employees are in a room together adjacent to it). Maybe I should just go sit in there with them sometimes. They would hate it but perhaps it would do me good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Likely do them some good as well


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## TheGoodGuy

Daughter has dance recital rehearsal this afternoon, but it started so early I had to take a half day off work to make sure I could pick her up from daycare ontime, dress her and get her there on time. So I had a little time to kill before that and went to the restaurant where Beautiful Eyes works. She wasn't there unfortunately. But, I chatted up a couple of people who were there and had a nice time. 

Coffee set up for tomorrow with posOMW. Nervous about it for some reason. Not that I'm going there to try to date her (I wouldn't want to be anywhere posOM has been, EVER), but nervous about reactions to it. I'm going there just to share war stories, but at this point STBXW and posOM are broken up and I think STBXW is already out looking for posOM2. By doing this am I starting some sort of childish one-ups-manship? "Well if you do this then I'm going to do that" type of thing? I don't play games like that.


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Daughter has dance recital rehearsal this afternoon, but it started so early I had to take a half day off work to make sure I could pick her up from daycare ontime, dress her and get her there on time. So I had a little time to kill before that and went to the restaurant where Beautiful Eyes works. She wasn't there unfortunately. But, I chatted up a couple of people who were there and had a nice time.
> 
> Coffee set up for tomorrow with posOMW. Nervous about it for some reason. Not that I'm going there to try to date her (I wouldn't want to be anywhere posOM has been, EVER), but nervous about reactions to it. I'm going there just to share war stories, but at this point STBXW and posOM are broken up and I think STBXW is already out looking for posOM2. By doing this am I starting some sort of childish one-ups-manship? "Well if you do this then I'm going to do that" type of thing? I don't play games like that.


Why do you think that?


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## GutPunch

Wow...you are over thinking this.

Life is a game...play to win.

It's just coffee.

It might be fun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Wow...you are over thinking this.
> 
> Life is a game...play to win.
> 
> It's just coffee.
> 
> It might be fun.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's a fascinating discussion, for sure.


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## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Why do you think that?


I honestly don't know. GP, you may be right that I'm over thinking it. My over-analytical nature? My mind starts running through worst case scenarios. 

When my STBX was with him, I was FURIOUS and wanted to go take him out. But I can't take care of my D7 very well from a jail cell, so I did nothing to contact him or try to do anything. That emasculated me a bit. 

What if she tells him about our coffee meeting and he shows up? Mans up like I never did? that's the type of crap that pops into my head and I over think it.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I honestly don't know. GP, you may be right that I'm over thinking it. My over-analytical nature? My mind starts running through worst case scenarios.
> 
> When my STBX was with him, I was FURIOUS and wanted to go take him out. But I can't take care of my D7 very well from a jail cell, so I did nothing to contact him or try to do anything. That emasculated me a bit.
> 
> What if she tells him about our coffee meeting and he shows up? Mans up like I never did? that's the type of crap that pops into my head and I over think it.


Dislike

The field is slanted in your favor now.

Take advantage of it.

Get the information.

Trust me, there's plenty to talk about.


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## TheGoodGuy

Any specific questions I should focus on?


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Any specific questions I should focus on?


What did you see?

When did it start?

What have you heard?

What have you been told?

(That should be good for 90 minutes)


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## GutPunch

TheGoodGuy said:


> I honestly don't know. GP, you may be right that I'm over thinking it. My over-analytical nature? My mind starts running through worst case scenarios.
> 
> When my STBX was with him, I was FURIOUS and wanted to go take him out. But I can't take care of my D7 very well from a jail cell, so I did nothing to contact him or try to do anything. That emasculated me a bit.
> 
> What if she tells him about our coffee meeting and he shows up? Mans up like I never did? that's the type of crap that pops into my head and I over think it.


I had these exact same feeling you did. Probably even worse. I still fight these feelings. I did the same. I could not get custody from a jail cell. The right decision. 

IF OM finds out, good. You will be viewed as more Alpha than previously by him or STBXW.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> What did you see?
> 
> When did it start?
> 
> What have you heard?
> 
> What have you been told?
> 
> (That should be good for 90 minutes)


Sounds like a good start Conrad. Some of it I've been told on our first phone call (when I exposed) and a bit more via email, but the answers will come more quickly in person I bet.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> IF OM finds out, good. You will be viewed as more Alpha than previously by him or STBXW.


Now THAT brought a vindicated smile to my face! :smthumbup:


----------



## jh52

Good guy - you are not the first BS to meet for coffee with the other BS and unfortunately you won't be the last.

Stop over thinking - get yourself out of your head - just be yourself and talk to her and share information that you both want/ need.

It will be fine and over before you know it.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

jh52 said:


> Good guy - you are not the first BS to meet for coffee with the other BS and unfortunately you won't be the last.
> 
> Stop over thinking - get yourself out of your head - just be yourself and talk to her and share information that you both want/ need.
> 
> It will be fine and over before you know it.


Thanks jh. I guess another thing that makes it weird is that she cheated on her husband too. So she may be a BS, but is also a WS as of several months ago. Maybe I can swing some of the conversation toward what the way a cheater thinks (or what kind of a person they are) so that I can stay the F*** away from that type of person from now on!

*note, I asked my IC something along these lines at our last session. Basically asked if manipulators know they're being manipulative. She said at some level, they do. There are those who actively manipulate more than others but they all do. That's why she gave me the Boundaries book so that I can learn what to watch for, and what to watch OUT for too.


----------



## GutPunch

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thanks jh. I guess another thing that makes it weird is that she cheated on her husband too. So she may be a BS, but is also a WS as of several months ago. Maybe I can swing some of the conversation toward what the way a cheater thinks (or what kind of a person they are) so that I can stay the F*** away from that type of person from now



LOL...Seriously....I would avoid persecuting OMW for being a cheater. How about go and have a good time :scratchhead:


----------



## Bullwinkle

Punch

You are showing more restraint - you didn't say, oh just go jump her bones and be done with it.


----------



## GutPunch

Bullwinkle said:


> Punch
> 
> You are showing more restraint - you didn't say, oh just go jump her bones and be done with it.


Ohhh but I was thinking it. Didn't want to put to much pressure on GG.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Sorry, GG. No pressure.


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## TheGoodGuy

Lol, I've seen her. Nothing to write home about, and like I said I want nothing to do with cheaters. Yeah we're just a couple of weeks away from D (if I can ever get my damn attorney to return an email!), but I will not give stbx that satisfaction. "See? He did it too while we were still technically married!" No sir.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

We're just playing.

You got this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GP and BW, I appreciate you guys bringing some humor into it. You've lightened my mood.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Question for you dads that got custody. I have a question about how to best set up visitation. Daughter is 7. She goes to "daycare" during the day (it's not actually daycare but I don't want to name the place) and loves it. 

I work a corporate job and my schedule is M-F 8-5. STBXW is in the restaurant industry and the hours suck donkey balls (in my opinion, apparently she "loves" it). Her schedule finally settled down and it looks like it's M, W, Th, F, S either 2PM-11PM or 3PM-12AM. So she has Sunday and Tuesday off. Apparently they can't give her consecutive days off right now. 

So how to set up visitation? It's summer time right now so she could keep her overnight on Sundays/Tuesdays and take her to daycare later in the day before she goes to work the next day, but when school starts up in the fall that won't work. Plus she moved about 40 minutes away. 

Anyone else have a similar situation?
**Edit, I may start a thread on this.


----------



## GutPunch

I would see a lawyer. They know what to do. That's what I did. If you try to work with her too much it may effect consistency and be a big hassle for you. 

Please avoid the situation where she gives you a different schedule on a weekly basis according to her life. 

I would be accommodating to a degree but don't go out of your way.

Yes...definitely see a lawyer and get a temporary plan. This will eliminate the accusations of you stealing the kids which will surely come.


----------



## Conrad

gutpunch said:


> please avoid the situation where she gives you a different schedule on a weekly basis according to her life.


ding...ding...ding....


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I'll get my attorney on it. Yes, I'm tired of her different schedules dictating mine and D7s. In the words of Conrad "I'm not ok with that"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

I agree with Punch and Conrad. That's what the lawyers get the big bucks for.

P.S. Donkey balls? That gave me The Shivers.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

So, had coffee with posOMW. No big deal. Not sure what I was worried about. We talked about the timeline of how everything went down, how it started, how they "broke up" multiple times throughout, etc. I don't necessarily think that I learned anything I didn't already know (like I said, my STBX usually tells on herself), but she definately learned some things.

They (posOM and posOMW) are now separated but still communicating. She's in limbo basically. She asked if I was trying to get back together with STBX and I said no. That marriage is dead. I gave her ample opportunity to do the heavy lifting and her inaction on any of it was all the answer I needed.

So it was a good conversation. As we were leaving she said to call or text her anytime I want to talk or ask more questions.

Pretty good day so far. Now to get back to work.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Bullwinkle said:


> I agree with Punch and Conrad. That's what the lawyers get the big bucks for.
> 
> P.S. Donkey balls? That gave me The Shivers.


Never heard that one in DC Bullwinkle? Sorry for the mental picture..


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> So, had coffee with posOMW. No big deal. Not sure what I was worried about. We talked about the timeline of how everything went down, how it started, how they "broke up" multiple times throughout, etc. I don't necessarily think that I learned anything I didn't already know (like I said, my STBX usually tells on herself), but she definately learned some things.
> 
> They (posOM and posOMW) are now separated but still communicating. She's in limbo basically. She asked if I was trying to get back together with STBX and I said no. That marriage is dead. I gave her ample opportunity to do the heavy lifting and her inaction on any of it was all the answer I needed.
> 
> So it was a good conversation. As we were leaving she said to call or text her anytime I want to talk or ask more questions.
> 
> Pretty good day so far. Now to get back to work.


Did you recommend she get a user account?


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## TheGoodGuy

Didn't even think about recommending that. I'll send her a link
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

I say GIVE her the link.


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## Bullwinkle

GoodGuy

Sounds like a conversation you had to have.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I'll ask her for a date next and see if I can fulfill you guys' fantasy about me and her shacking up. Deal?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> I say GIVE her the link.


Is there some subtle innuendo that I'm missing in that all caps GIVE lol?
:scratchhead:


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Oh by the way, I got an invite to go to a brunch later this month by one of those old friends that my STBXW made me give up because she thought I would be unfaithful. I reconnected with her recently and told her about the last decade. Too bad she's seeing someone at the moment or I WOULD want to start something with her. There are supposed to be plenty of women there though. Hopefully my friend will introduce me to some. Things are looking up!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

...aaaannnddd somehow it JUST dawned on that our ninth anniversary would have been only 2 weeks away. I'm betting that the D will be done right around that time. How bittersweet.


----------



## smallsteps

Go and enjoy yourself - it will be great for you. But don't go in thinking of who you can end up with - go have fun & just see where the night brings you.

Sorry about the anniversary - my 25th would be coming up July 9th & I feel it starting to get to me. Cant wait for the day to pass. I really don't miss him & the marriage is over - but come on- to get so close to 25 yrs just to throw it away? Oh well I need to look at it as just a number I guess.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> Go and enjoy yourself - it will be great for you. But don't go in thinking of who you can end up with - go have fun & just see where the night brings you.
> 
> Sorry about the anniversary - my 25th would be coming up July 9th & I feel it starting to get to me. Cant wait for the day to pass. I really don't miss him & the marriage is over - but come on- to get so close to 25 yrs just to throw it away? Oh well I need to look at it as just a number I guess.


Yep, I'm not going to tie too much to it, but just looking to be confident about me for a while and see what's out there. Who knows, maybe it will just be a bunch of couples and make me jealous. I'm already determined to just say "oh well" if this is the case. I'll still network, meet some peeps, and have a good time. Maybe some of them have friends that are in similar situations and I'll end up with someone to talk to. 

The anniversary thing.. It surprised me tonight that I had not been thinking about it. I've never been one to forget anniversaries and such, but it felt like maybe I am really focusing on myself and not thinking of her as much. It was a good feeling rather than a bad feeling.


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Yep, I'm not going to tie too much to it, but just looking to be confident about me for a while and see what's out there. Who knows, maybe it will just be a bunch of couples and make me jealous. I'm already determined to just say "oh well" if this is the case. I'll still network, meet some peeps, and have a good time. Maybe some of them have friends that are in similar situations and I'll end up with someone to talk to.
> 
> The anniversary thing.. It surprised me tonight that I had not been thinking about it. I've never been one to forget anniversaries and such, but it felt like maybe I am really focusing on myself and not thinking of her as much. It was a good feeling rather than a bad feeling.


Great attitude!! Everyone tells me when its time ( & I still have a long way to go before I think about dating - I have too many trust issues right now) that it will happen when I least expect it. 

I knew my anniversary would bother me - if it was any other year maybe not but you get to the year you're going to celebrate 25 years & he leaves 2 days into 2013? Just a waste - like I said I have to look at it as just a number.


----------



## smallsteps

Glad to see you are handling it well though. Looks like all the work you're doing is beginning to pay off.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Need some help crafting an appropriate response to this text from STBX. Note that my (well I guess not my anymore) Stepson13 has moved into his mom's apartment 40 minutes away from where I live. His dad lives in that same town as him. His dad is likely going to court to ask for primary custody of him soon BTW. STBXW works nights/weekends mostly. So this would be her normal schedule to have D7, but only has Sundays/Tuesdays off. Since she has to close (which means working til midnight) on Saturday, she won't be getting D7 until Sunday mid-morning. She texted this:

"Just curious if you want to take SS13 at all tomorrow night? You said you've been thinking of him and I have to close. I also texted SS13's dad. Just thought I'd ask"

I have been thinking of him. I raised him for 9 years. I even went to a baseball game the other night so that I could see him and watch him play. However this text sounds too much like before he moved out. To me it sounds like "since you'll have D7 anyway, why don't you babysit SS13 too so that I can have time to myself after work?" Of course the spin is that I still want to have contact with SS13, but really that's just me babysitting. Shouldn't his dad step up and watch him if they don't want him sitting by himself in her apartment all day? Or shouldn't she hire a babysitter if she's not wanting him to be alone? 

I feel like she's trying to manipulate me again, and I won't have it. I have nothing at my house of his anymore. She took all that away. All he would do is sit in front of the TV all day. 

She fired me as a husband. I should not have to be her babysitter of her son that she claims to care so much about but refuses to find a job with more normal hours. I guess I should just be happy she has a job so she can pay me child support. I know that sounds petty, but don't I deserve some me time? I know if I said yes, I would end up watching him all afternoon and she'd probably have him sleep overnight since she gets off work so late. And probably not show up until much later on Sunday because I assume she would go party since she didn't have any kids to watch. God that sounds horrible to say it that way, and I feel selfish for saying it, but saying yes to watching him just sounds like me taking on her consequences for her choices. GAAHH The old codependant me would have done it in a heartbeat, but the new me is sick of being used in this way. If I want to see him it should be on my terms, not so that I can be babysitter for her. Is that selfish of me? Am I being an a**hole?


----------



## GutPunch

Here's my take. 

If you want to keep him, then do it and leave it at that.

If you don't, then text her back sorry can't do it. 

Whatever you do, don't keep him and then persecute her for going 
out. No expectations from her ok.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I said "I'm sorry, I can't. Maybe another time."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

And thanks GP, your last statement shook me out of my anger: "no expectations from her, ok?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I'm detaching.. I can feel it. The last 3 weeks have been more good than bad. But still the feelings come from time to time. Is it just Nice Guy or codependent to feel the following?:

I know she cheated on me. Treated me like I was lower than dirt. Needs therapy badly. But what if all it took was me saying "just come home baby. We can work through this. I'll help you" and she would say "that's what I was waiting for! For you to fight for me! Of course I'll come home!" blah blah. 

OK, I know how stupid that sounds, and having written it down it sounds even more stupid. But why are these thoughts still passing through my head? Just remnants of the "old" me popping up like whack-a-moles?


----------



## smallsteps

Sounds like your codependent self speaking - "we can work through this - I CAN HELP" its not your job to do that - she needs to work on her own problems herself. Lets be real - there is no such thing as the knight in shining armour - that's a codepenent situation ready to happen. People need to recognise their problems & be willing to work on them.

As for letting those thoughts creep in - when they do - just remember what she did to you & remember how far YOU have come since that happened. It should work.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thanks SS. That sounds right. The logical side of my brain knows it. The fact that the emotional side still has these feelings from time to time tells me I still have more work to do. I guess people can't undue years of codependency overnight.


----------



## smallsteps

Of course you have more to do. I think this is more like a marathon than a sprint - but you have come a long way so you should feel good about that. Just when those feelings start to creep back in make sure you don't let them take over. Force the logical side of your brain to take over. I have a feeling you'll do fine.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Oh my God. I'm a mess now. I took a call from her, thinking it was about the visitation arrangements I had sent her an email about this morning. She was bawling and crying and asking to come home. She is sick of being away from the kids and still loves me and wants to come home. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. She said she'll do anything to make it right. What the **** do I do now.. Oh my God what a mess. I longed for so long to hear those words and now that I've heard them I'm at a loss at how to respond. I didn't say anything for a long time on the phone.. She said it's probably too late and she hates herself for what she's done. 
I'm so conflicted.


----------



## GutPunch

TheGoodGuy said:


> Oh my God. I'm a mess now. I took a call from her, thinking it was about the visitation arrangements I had sent her an email about this morning. She was bawling and crying and asking to come home. She is sick of being away from the kids and still loves me and wants to come home. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. She said she'll do anything to make it right. What the **** do I do now.. Oh my God what a mess. I longed for so long to hear those words and now that I've heard them I'm at a loss at how to respond. I didn't say anything for a long time on the phone.. She said it's probably too late and she hates herself for what she's done.
> I'm so conflicted.


Don't do anything. Do not jump into anything.

Be strong. 

Search you soul for what you want.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Oh my God. I'm a mess now. I took a call from her, thinking it was about the visitation arrangements I had sent her an email about this morning. She was bawling and crying and asking to come home. She is sick of being away from the kids and still loves me and wants to come home. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. She said she'll do anything to make it right. What the **** do I do now.. Oh my God what a mess. I longed for so long to hear those words and now that I've heard them I'm at a loss at how to respond. I didn't say anything for a long time on the phone.. She said it's probably too late and she hates herself for what she's done.
> I'm so conflicted.


Deep breath.

Sit with this awhile.

Don't do anything.

Turn towards stillness.

You'll know what to do.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Don't do anything. Do not jump into anything.
> 
> Be strong.
> 
> Search you soul for what you want.


Beat me to it.


----------



## GutPunch

She may have got into a spat with OM.

She may be wanting to see if plan B is still waiting.

There is no need to rush your decision.

Sit back and watch what she does and not what she says.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I have my normal counselling appointment scheduled for Thursday. Should I invite her to come with me? So conflicted. If I want her back and she's willing to work for it, then why am I so scared that you all will 2x4 me to death?


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I have my normal counselling appointment scheduled for Thursday. Should I invite her to come with me? So conflicted. If I want her back and she's willing to work for it, then why am I so scared that you all will 2x4 me to death?


Do not invite her to jack **** until you know what you want.


----------



## GutPunch

TheGoodGuy said:


> I have my normal counselling appointment scheduled for Thursday. Should I invite her to come with me? So conflicted. If I want her back and she's willing to work for it, then why am I so scared that you all will 2x4 me to death?


Patience....is the key here.

We know what you want or you wouldn't be here on TAM.

No 2x4s necessary.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Do not invite her to jack **** until you know what you want.


Conrad is right. Way too soon.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> Search you soul for what you want.


I know what I want. I want my family and my wife back. I had been hoping for so long that she would want to come back, but now that she has asked me to come back I don't know how to know it's for real and just not a plan B thing.


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Oh my God. I'm a mess now. I took a call from her, thinking it was about the visitation arrangements I had sent her an email about this morning. She was bawling and crying and asking to come home. She is sick of being away from the kids and still loves me and wants to come home. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. She said she'll do anything to make it right. What the **** do I do now.. Oh my God what a mess. I longed for so long to hear those words and now that I've heard them I'm at a loss at how to respond. I didn't say anything for a long time on the phone.. She said it's probably too late and she hates herself for what she's done.
> I'm so conflicted.


Jeeze what the heck - you just mentioned this scenero - remember what I just said - you cant fix her. You need to stop & think don't react to impulses especially with the way you are feeling right now. Give yourself time - don't answer right away!!


----------



## smallsteps

If shes serious about coming back - nothing has to be done right now decisions can wait. I think you should go to counceling alone don't involve her. You said yourself your codependant side was showing itself this weekend - find your logical side again. You need it now more than ever!!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I haven't answered. She said she wanted to hear me say yes, but I couldn't. Told her I would talk to her later.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

****DEEP BREATHS**** Calm... Patience... Help me God...


----------



## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> Jeeze what the heck - you just mentioned this scenero - remember what I just said - you cant fix her. You need to stop & think don't react to impulses especially with the way you are feeling right now. Give yourself time - don't answer right away!!


I know.. though the scenario I described was me begging HER to come home! I did not not expect the opposite to happen.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I know what I want. I want my family and my wife back. I had been hoping for so long that she would want to come back, but now that she has asked me to come back I don't know how to know it's for real and just not a plan B thing.


And, how - exactly - did you get her to this point?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> And, how - exactly - did you get her to this point?


Sorry Conrad.. I don't understand the question.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Sorry Conrad.. I don't understand the question.


Did you get her to miss you by rushing to fix it?


----------



## smallsteps

The fact that the opposite happened doesn't change the fact that you're not in a good place right now to make this decision. Of course your first reaction is "finally the nightmare is over" get rid of that thought & think rational its not as simple as that. Do not let your daughter know about this at all!!! Just take a moment & realize even if you take her back - your old marriage is dead & gone. Now are you sure you could build a new relationship with someone like her - can you trust her? Or even though its the harder choice - do you deserve better?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Did you get her to miss you by rushing to fix it?


Ah.. now I get it. No. I was mostly dark. Didn't pull of the full 180 and had my moments of weakness but for the most part I've been silent. 

When I was on the phone with her earlier she said that she wanted to call and tell me this so many times over the last few weeks. I asked her why she hadn't. She said "pride".


----------



## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> The fact that the opposite happened doesn't change the fact that you're not in a good place right now to make this decision. Of course your first reaction is "finally the nightmare is over" get rid of that thought & think rational its not as simple as that. Do not let your daughter know about this at all!!! Just take a moment & realize even if you take her back - your old marriage is dead & gone. Now are you sure you could build a new relationship with someone like her - can you trust her? Or even though its the harder choice - do you deserve better?


Where's the beat my head against a wall emoticon when I need it?


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Ah.. now I get it. No. I was mostly dark. Didn't pull of the full 180 and had my moments of weakness but for the most part I've been silent.
> 
> When I was on the phone with her earlier she said that she wanted to call and tell me this so many times over the last few weeks. I asked her why she hadn't. She said "pride".


So, why would you rush to fix now?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Got it. No rushing.. Lots to think about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Got it. No rushing.. Lots to think about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Codependent thinking is really difficult to resist.

Our instincts misinform us.

We've rushed to fix the entire time, and it blew up.

So, we change the dynamic... start to see results... and we then give ourselves permission to return to the old ways?

Chew on that awhile.


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Got it. No rushing.. Lots to think about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Absolutely - you have a lot to think about. You have come way to far to throw it all away because she said shes ready to come back. Put this image in your head - she just snapped her fingers and said I want to come back - now what is your response? Run back like a puppy dog or stand your ground & use what you've learned. Think about that. Which looks more appealing to you? Who do you see yourself as?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

No puppy dog here SS. I just don't know what to think.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> No puppy dog here SS. I just don't know what to think.


Sounds like you're feeling better.


----------



## happyman64

GoodGuy

Especially now be cool and calm for yourself.

You are finally in the drivers seat.

Now think real hard about what you want.

Hell, write it down for yourself and re do it until you have your decision.

If you wish to R then create a plan. A roadmap for both of you.

But write down what your conditions she must agree to in order to Reconcile.

Because a WS with "pride" is no good to you.

Good Luck on your decision.

HM64


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> No puppy dog here SS. I just don't know what to think.


Good to hear that. That's why you need to take your TIME!!! No rushing into this even though its very tempting to do so. You need to think long & hard about what you really want.


----------



## smallsteps

Do yourself a favor- the weekend just ended and you don't know what prompted this call from her. Make yourself a promise that you wont make any decisions for at LEAST 48 hours. Try not to have any contact with her either. Give yourself time to settle down & think.


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> GoodGuy
> 
> Especially now be cool and calm for yourself.
> 
> You are finally in the drivers seat.
> 
> Now think real hard about what you want.
> 
> Hell, write it down for yourself and re do it until you have your decision.
> 
> If you wish to R then create a plan. A roadmap for both of you.
> 
> But write down what your conditions she must agree to in order to Reconcile.
> 
> Because a WS with "pride" is no good to you.
> 
> Good Luck on your decision.
> 
> HM64


And, if this is all about some idiotic fight with posOM that will be straightened out next week, you want no part of it.


----------



## happyman64

Conrad is right.

You are not her Plan B.

So make sure she misses you, the family and the marriage.

And just to check her "pride" make one of your conditions is for her to get tested for STD's.

Because her BF has been messing with her, his wife and god knows who his wife was banging.


SO be smart and firm.

HM


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Crisis averted. My counsellor called back and we talked about some things. Also a friend of STBXW talked with her and discussed the fact that she doesn't need to try to move that fast. Yep. Moving forward with D, and I'm less stressed out about that than trying R and having it blow up in my face. HM, I made my list last night, and was astonished how many things I wrote down, looked at the item, and said "she won't commit to that, not really". Feeling focused again this morning. Thank you TAM friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

Glad to see you didn't rush into anything. See you sat back and gave it some time & came to a rational decision instead of acting on impulse. Good for you!!! I think you've come a lot farther than you think - congratulations!!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

thanks SS. Cool. Calm.. It freakin' works people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> thanks SS. Cool. Calm.. It freakin' works people.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol!! - yes it does!!


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> thanks SS. Cool. Calm.. It freakin' works people.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay the course brother.


----------



## warlock07

The last time she begged, the OM dumped her. Wonder what happened now?


----------



## smallsteps

warlock07 said:


> The last time she begged, the OM dumped her. Wonder what happened now?


It shouldn't matter. He may be better off not even wondering about it. He shouldn't even waste his time or energy on it. Its her mess not his. Part of detatching for him is going to be not caring what goes on in her life anymore.


----------



## Conrad

smallsteps said:


> It shouldn't matter. He may be better off not even wondering about it. He shouldn't even waste his time or energy on it. Its her mess not his. Part of detatching for him is going to be not caring what goes on in her life anymore.


If he's considering taking her back, he needs to know


----------



## smallsteps

Conrad said:


> If he's considering taking her back, he needs to know


True but from his last post it seems hes ready to move forward with the divorce based on what he feels is her inability to work on what he feels she/they need to work on. In that case I don't think it matters anymore what this last episode was about. Now if he is still considering reconciling then yes you're right he needs to know.


----------



## Conrad

smallsteps said:


> True but from his last post it seems hes ready to move forward with the divorce based on what he feels is her inability to work on what he feels she/they need to work on. In that case I don't think it matters anymore what this last episode was about. Now if he is still considering reconciling then yes you're right he needs to know.


Emotions change.

Best to cover all bases.

Know what's real.


----------



## smallsteps

Conrad said:


> Emotions change.
> 
> Best to cover all bases.
> 
> Know what's real.


True - its good to know all the facts before making a decision. I think the trick is not to let the process of finding those facts consume us.


----------



## Conrad

smallsteps said:


> True - its good to know all the facts before making a decision. I think the trick is not to let the process of finding those facts consume us.


50,000 feet elevation is a must.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

As far as I know her and OM are not even "friends" anymore. And no, just considering taking her back yesterday was starting to make me scared and nervous, so there's no us together possibility anymore. She has screwed up her entire life and we're all seeing what she is like when I'm not around to rescue her all the time. Looking back I can see how much I just took care of all of her issues and she never had to deal with her own consequences.

Update, apparently she got fired from her current job. She lied to her boss about why she needed a day off and they caught her in the lie.. Imagine if I had taken her back yesterday? *shudder*


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> As far as I know her and OM are not even "friends" anymore. And no, just considering taking her back yesterday was starting to make me scared and nervous, so there's no us together possibility anymore. She has screwed up her entire life and we're all seeing what she is like when I'm not around to rescue her all the time. Looking back I can see how much I just took care of all of her issues and she never had to deal with her own consequences.
> 
> Update, apparently she got fired from her current job. She lied to her boss about why she needed a day off and they caught her in the lie.. Imagine if I had taken her back yesterday? *shudder*


You used to fix all that stuff, didn't you?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> You used to fix all that stuff, didn't you?


Yup.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Yup.


How does it feel to watch it cave in?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

To be honest, I feel pity for her. Even though we're done it doesn't stop me from feeling compassion for her. I just won't be fixing her problems anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> To be honest, I feel pity for her. Even though we're done it doesn't stop me from feeling compassion for her. I just won't be fixing her problems anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She never appreciated it.

Do you see that?

Are you observing?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I see that now. I'm observing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I see that now. I'm observing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's where you need to be.

When you stay in this place, IF she reaches out, you'll be able to see if it's "real" or it it's just a monkey looking for another branch.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

At this point I'm certain any more reaching out from her it is just the monkey looking for another branch. What I'm seeing is that her "friendship" with the PosOM failed and that she's currently mad at him. I'm certain she'll get lonely and reach back out to him, and when he tells her off again she'll try the "i want to come home" thing again. But here's what I don't think she gets fully: I am not plan B. I've told her as much on numerous occasions but I don't think she really gets it yet. Maybe getting closer though. She's self destructing, and I want no part if it anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> At this point I'm certain any more reaching out from her it is just the monkey looking for another branch. What I'm seeing is that her "friendship" with the PosOM failed and that she's currently mad at him. I'm certain she'll get lonely and reach back out to him, and when he tells her off again she'll try the "i want to come home" thing again. But here's what I don't think she gets fully: I am not plan B. I've told her as much on numerous occasions but I don't think she really gets it yet. Maybe getting closer though. She's self destructing, and I want no part if it anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't tell her, show her.

Talk less, do more.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Don't tell her, show her.
> 
> Talk less, do more.


Is there a better way to show her I won't be plan B than by turning down her attempts to "come home"?


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Is there a better way to show her I won't be plan B than by turning down her attempts to "come home"?


Do things that show her you are moving on with your life.

New hobby - check.

All the friends you exiled because she didn't like them - check.

Do you sing? Go to karaoke.

Etc.

SHOW her.

You are not waiting around to see if the latest tiff with posOM gets resolved!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Understood. Do more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I used to sing.. Was in a little acoustic duo for a few years when we first got together. We played at little bars and such pretty often. But it took a lot of time away from my young family (5 hours to set up, play, and tear down, for very little money), so I quit. Plus my band mate was making some pretty poor life choices and I didn't want to get caught up in anything. Oh and my stbxw hated him, and he disliked her as well I think (better judge of character than me perhaps? Lol).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I used to sing.. Was in a little acoustic duo for a few years when we first got together. We played at little bars and such pretty often. But it took a lot of time away from my young family (5 hours to set up, play, and tear down, for very little money), so I quit. Plus my band mate was making some pretty poor life choices and I didn't want to get caught up in anything. Oh and my stbxw hated him, and he disliked her as well I think (better judge of character than me perhaps? Lol).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Find a place tonight where they have karaoke - open mic, and GO


----------



## TheGoodGuy

If it wasn't a weeknight (work tomorrow) and if I had someone to watch D7 I probably would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Little more encouragement...

Last night, my wife came over and was entertaining me. We shared a hot tub and some other hot stuff.

I took her back to her place.

She looked in my eyes and said, "You're going out to karaoke, aren't you".

I said, "You bet"


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> If it wasn't a weeknight (work tomorrow) and if I had someone to watch D7 I probably would.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Make sure you do it this weekend.

Start looking into it now.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad, do you have a thread on here where I can read your story? Here I was thinking you were happily married to your lady?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Make sure you do it this weekend.
> 
> Start looking into it now.


Going camping this weekend.. I'll make sure to sing kumbaya around the campfire. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stretch

GG,

It is great to see you working on yourself. Just as an FYI, there is a place near my house that has karaoke for all ages so maybe there is an opportunity to bring your D7 along at a similar place near you?

Enjoy camping. Sounds like fun.

Be strong friend,
Stretch


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Going camping this weekend.. I'll make sure to sing kumbaya around the campfire.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As long as the hand you are holding is attached to someone very attractive


----------



## TheGoodGuy

D7 is with her mom tonight. So I mowed the front yard. Was also going to do the back yard but was out of gas for the mower. My back yard isn't very useable because it's fairly steep so I figured it could wait until the next time I mow. Hopped on my bike instead and went for a bike ride. Damn I feel good! I love me some endorphins.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good for you, the bike ride, I'm envious, probably better fo you than the glass of bourbon and a Marlboro I'm contemplating. 

Youre sounding more positive, amigo, keep it up.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Lol, thanks BW. Sounds like a pretty relaxing evening to me actually! Hang in there, I'm still following your thread as well. If we weren't hundreds of miles away I'd swing by and join you in that bourbon and cig.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Camping with D7 and friends this weekend. Most of the weekend I've been able to relax and focus on me and d7. When I picked up D7 from stbxw yesterday, x started bawling. Talked to her last night after she told my daughter good night and she was still crying. I'm a compassionate person and I genuinely felt bad for her.. Why do I still feel this way? Even after being screwed over, I can't handle hearing her cry...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Because you still love her.


----------



## happyman64

Anybody know why Conrad was banned?


----------



## Awakening2012

Conrad banned again!? No idea why, but would be curious to know, too. As a consolation to him, his bad boy reputation of frequent TAM trips to the Gulag gives his Alpha appeal a boost


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Bullwinkle said:


> Because you still love her.


I do... And miss her. Camping with a bunch of couples and families this weekend. This whole thing is making me sad. :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> I do... And miss her. Camping with a bunch of couples and families this weekend. This whole thing is making me sad. :-(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Remember the list you made last week when you took a step back? You wouldn't be human if you didn't feel bad. Even though it sounded like a good thing to do at the time maybe it wasn't the best thing to go on a trip with other couples & families.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I'm sorry to hear it, GG. 

I know the feeling so well. Despite the wrongs she may have done you you simply cannot imagine a life without her.


----------



## smallsteps

Bullwinkle said:


> I'm sorry to hear it, GG.
> 
> I know the feeling so well. Despite the wrongs she may have done you you simply cannot imagine a life without her.


But sometimes - after much soul searching - you realize that although you cant imagine a life without your spouse - it is the best thing for YOU and you need to find a way to move on.


----------



## Bullwinkle

I hear you, Smallsteps, but, God, it's a hard lesson to learn. I think realizing you need to move on is one thing, actually doing it another.


----------



## lostLove77

That's for damn sure. Just read last 3 pages of my thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

Bullwinkle said:


> I hear you, Smallsteps, but, God, it's a hard lesson to learn. I think realizing you need to move on is one thing, actually doing it another.


That is very true - its one of the hardest things to do but sometimes its necessary. When this all first happened to me I didn't think id be able to live without him. I cried for two months straight. I am now at a point that I realize he did me a favor & I wont take him back even if he did come back 1- because I know I'm a better person without him & 2- I refuse to be lied to & made a fool of again by him or anyone else.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> That is very true - its one of the hardest things to do but sometimes its necessary. When this all first happened to me I didn't think id be able to live without him. I cried for two months straight. I am now at a point that I realize he did me a favor & I wont take him back even if he did come back 1- because I know I'm a better person without him & 2- I refuse to be lied to & made a fool of again by him or anyone else.


"Did me a favor"... I'm feeling this way more and more. It's just taking me some time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> "Did me a favor"... I'm feeling this way more and more. It's just taking me some time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its not something that happened overnight for me - it took a little time & I still have my moments. Not for the loss of him but the loss of our life together & the loss of what I thought was "supposed to be". Take all the time you need - we all move at our own pace.


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: The emotional roller coaster*



TheGoodGuy said:


> "Did me a favor"... I'm feeling this way more and more. It's just taking me some time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can relate to that line too!

GG, you are on the right path mate. If you're anything like me there WILL come a time when your focus shifts from grieving for the loss of what was (the family unit) to the opportunity of the better life that awaits.

It's out there. And so is the next mrs GG. And she is smoking hot.

Take the time you need to get your head straight first. You'll know when you're ready.

Whenever your mind drifts to that dark place just remember that most people's scope for change in the long term is small. So rather than holding out for one particular person to change into the person you want to be with, wait for that someone special who already is all of the things you want in a partner. 

Trust me! I was on the same roller coaster just over a year ago. Eventually I got off it and got busy living. Now I couldn't be happier.

Take care


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thank you BW, SS, LL77, T12..


----------



## TheGoodGuy

So, GG update: Went camping with D7, as per above. Had a great time with her on the lake with good friends and their families. D7 had an awesome time with kids her own age. I got sad at night when she went to sleep and I was still up with the adults, but I suppose that's to be expected. 

My would be anniversary is in 2 days. Divorce paperwork is complete and on my kitchen table. Tonight I swung by STBX apartment to see if we could discuss details about visitation (as agreed per text messages earlier today). When I showed up I could tell she'd been drinking. She invited me in to have dinner with her and the kids. Stupidly I went in. We ate, then went outside to try to discuss the details. It didn't last long. I got another cry fest from her about how sorry she was and that she missed me and loved me. Then she told me "you obviously don't want to be here. f u just leave". I was about to leave when she told me she missed me some more. (I'm clearly not out of the woods yet here people. I need to be able to walk away at the first inappropriate behavior). Says she has a counseling appointment on Thursday. I say "that's good, counseling is really helping me through my stuff". Then she tried to get me to kiss her and take me to the bedroom. I wasn't buying it. I told her no. She said she's sad that I hate her so much. I told her I didn't hate her, but hated her actions (and inaction to do anything to change them). Hugged D7 and step-son13 and left. I tried to use all of my newfound knowledge from TAM and counseling to guide me. I'd rate this interaction a C+. Guess I need some more lumber.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

And yes, her actions are still telling me that she did me a favor. I really hope her counsellor can make progress with her. Not for my sake but for hers and the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## torn2012

Where did I leave my 2x4??? Oh wait, here it is...

STOP TAKING THE BAIT!!!

She's baiting you. Trying to guilt you into taking her back. You know this. If she does this often enough there's a chance she'll catch you in a moment of weakness. 

You've endured this like a boss so far. Steel yourself because as the moment of D draws nearer she will throw all her best plays at you.

Try changing the way you interact for the next few weeks. Take away her opportunities to catch you in that weak moment. Limit your face to face contact to pick up and drop off of D7. Limit all communication about D7 to text or email. No face to face or phone calls. This makes it harder to convey emotions.

You can do this buddy. Stay strong.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I know I'm taking the bait. I hate it. I still have so much to learn. But proud of myself at turning down a sure thing sexual encounter. Still weak, but getting stronger...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## torn2012

You should be proud for turning sex down. You said you didn't want to touch what POSOM had touched and you've kept your word so far.

Let someone else stir his baby gravy.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Damn, Torn, was just about to eat a leftover porh chop with gravy.....

The dog has it now....


----------



## torn2012

Sorry BW! Lucky dog.


----------



## Bullwinkle

Still liked the expression, gotta use it later today.


----------



## wtf2012

Borderline Personality Disorder Resource Center

Might want to look through this link. I think it may feel familiar.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Good read, wtf.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Seriously, it sounds remarkably familiar, especially over the last few months. But at the same time I can see some of those traits going way back as well. So does a person suffering from BPD have the ability to "hide" their disorder much of the time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Today would have been our 9th wedding anniversary.. I guess it really is because we're not officially divorced yet. I'm triggering badly..


----------



## GutPunch

Hang in there I know that sux.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Do I send anything to her? a short text just to not be an azzhole?


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Do I send anything to her? a short text just to not be an azzhole?


I wouldn't if I were you. Hang in there -the day will pass - try to keep busy. I'm in the same position in 3 weeks - it would have been our 25th anniversary but since we're not legally anything I guess - as my lovely comic of a son points out- we are still married. Truth is I have to laugh at the absurdity of it all!!
Honestly - I don't intend on wishing him a happy anniversary & I don't expect him to wish me one either.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I know... I wasn't thinking "happy anniversary!" Or anything like that.. Just something to acknowledge the day. I won't do it though. Gotta get my mind off this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

Don't do it.

You have moved on even if you haven't.

Ignore if she sends something.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> You have moved on even if you haven't.


That's deep right there GP...


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> I know... I wasn't thinking "happy anniversary!" Or anything like that.. Just something to acknowledge the day. I won't do it though. Gotta get my mind off this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope- nothing. I'm trying to get in the mindset that its just another day & 25 is just another number. Try it. Every time the thought creeps into your mind - replace it with something else that had nothing to do with her.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> Nope- nothing. I'm trying to get in the mindset that its just another day & 25 is just another number. Try it. Every time the thought creeps into your mind - replace it with something else that had nothing to do with her.


Thanks SS. 25 years for you, wow.. but you're right. it's just a number. 9 isn't even a cool number anyway! 

just a number.. just a number. today is like any other ol' date on the calendar...


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thanks SS. 25 years for you, wow.. but you're right. it's just a number. 9 isn't even a cool number anyway!
> 
> just a number.. just a number. today is like any other ol' date on the calendar...


Lol - there you go!!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Well, I made it through the day. The morning was rough but I had meetings most of the afternoon and that helped. Had a beer with my brother after work and talked for a while. I talked about my personal quest to improve myself via TAM, books, and IC. He said he should really think about doing the same. We're the same, both Mr. Nice Guys. He's been divorced for 6 years and said he still hasn't fully gotten over his X, though he is dating now. I told him about TAM. He opened up the website on his phone and said he would start reading stuff tonight.


----------



## torn2012

Good for you GG. You are making great progress. 

Got a question for you. Have you thought about what you will do in the lead up to D when stbx starts throwing her best plays at you to try and regain control of the situation?

You may need to think about strategies to avoid being caught out as she becomes more and more desperate.

Don't be surprised when she cries, begs, calls you, invites you in for dinner and tries to use your penis against you. BE PREPARED!

She's already doing this but I predict she will really up the pressure on you to get you to back down.

And it won't necessarily be to show you that she is remorseful and willing to do what it takes. It will more likely be about control. You are in control. She wants to be in control. Stay in control!

You deserve a much higher quality of woman in your life. Someone who deserves the love, affection, loyalty and support you offer. Fight for that my friend.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thanks Torn. I have been thinking about this and planning. No more phone calls. No more face to face if I can help it. Is there anything I can say or do to convince her that it's over and she just needs to sign when she starts throwing hail Mary's?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## torn2012

That's it mate. deprive her of opportunities to appeal to your emotional side.

That hail mary might be a big one too. She knows you well enough to know what turns you on. Maybe she'll put things on the table that you've requested but not received previously.

Here's something a little left field. Perhaps you ladies out there should look away for a minute. It might help to ummmm.... reduce the possibility of her seducing you by neutralizing the sexual tension. You might try errr... quietly sneaking away and taking matters into your own hands before any planned interactions. You know, put the big guy to sleep so he doesn't conspire against you with your ex. Haha. I feel dirty just suggesting this.


----------



## torn2012

Sorry, probably crossed the line there. I already have a seat booked in the pit.

As far as getting her to sign - you need to recognize when she deviates from topic and try to get her back on track. You can't be forceful, that will be counterproductive. Try to be firm and just refuse to engage in any talk that might lead you off task.

But remember that ultimately you can't make her do anything. She wouldn't be the first to employ stall tactics. Don't go in feeling like things will run smoothly because they won't and you'll be disappointed.

Perhaps the best advice was your own from a previous post. You need to remove yourself from any interactions at the first sign of inappropriate behavior. 

You've got this!


----------



## smallsteps

Really??? I thought that's what private message was for lol!! You meant well though.


----------



## torn2012

I do tend to frequent the gutter SS. Humor has helped me through some difficult moments. 

But in all seriousness, sleeping with stbx in a moment of weakness can really set you back. Read gutpunch's journal to see how luring the BS into bed can really mess BS up and hand power back to WS.

Don't make that mistake.


----------



## smallsteps

torn2012 said:


> I do tend to frequent the gutter SS. Humor has helped me through some difficult moments.
> 
> But in all seriousness, sleeping with stbx in a moment of weakness can really set you back. Read gutpunch's journal to see how luring the BS into bed can really mess BS up and hand power back to WS.
> 
> Don't make that mistake.


It has me too - laughing is just as good of a stress reliever as crying but its more fun to do!! I actually laughed at your suggestion to be honest.

You are right - doing that can set all the progress you've made back to square one & it can seriously mess with your head. Its no good & no offense GG - I'm not trying to talk over your head - but I have a feeling his stbex is going to pull out all the stops to try to make him change his mind.


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: The emotional roller coaster*



smallsteps said:


> It has me too - laughing is just as good of a stress reliever as crying but its more fun to do!! I actually laughed at your suggestion to be honest.
> 
> You are right - doing that can set all the progress you've made back to square one & it can seriously mess with your head. Its no good & no offense GG - I'm not trying to talk over your head - but I have a feeling his stbex is going to pull out all the stops to try to make him change his mind.


Me too. But I also have faith in GG to hold his ground and stand up for himself!

He is learning from this difficult experience. When this is all said and done he will emerge a better man who is better equipped to deal with any future challenges.

The future Mrs GG will be one lucky lady


----------



## TheGoodGuy

:rofl: Great idea Torn! I will take that under advisement. Thanks for the support. I made it through yesterday, *phew*. So I gave her the paperwork on Tuesday. How long before I can ask if she signed yet? A week?


----------



## LongWalk

Good work
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

torn2012 said:


> Me too. But I also have faith in GG to hold his ground and stand up for himself!
> 
> He is learning from this difficult experience. When this is all said and done he will emerge a better man who is better equipped to deal with any future challenges.
> 
> The future Mrs GG will be one lucky lady


I do too & yes she will


----------



## TheGoodGuy

The ship just got REAL for STBX. I think having the papers in her hand made her finally think about what was happening. She wanted me to come to her house "to see D7" and be able to talk. I called and said I was more comfortable over the phone than in person because of the incident the other night. Said that another incident like that wouldn't happen because she's done a 180 of how she felt the other night, and is no longer drinking (lie? who knows.). I still said no to visiting her apartment. So she went into it. 

She said that she's been thinking things over and that D7 needs to be with her. She doesn't agree with the papers and will not sign. She thinks I'm a great dad and all, but thinks that D7 is a little girl and needs to be with her mother. And D7 also needs to be with her brother (my stepson 13 - half brother of D7). She wants to be properly served so that she can hire and attorney.  I calmly said "you really want to go through all of this? What do you think you can prove in court after you had an affair, abandoned us and have lost 2 jobs in the last month? I thought you did not want this to get ugly?". I also reminded her that she lived in a 2 bedroom apartment with her in one bedroom and S13 in the other. She said "well I was a SAHM for all of those years because YOU wanted me to (twisted logic there, I never forced it), so you'll have to pay me child support and probably alimony so I'll be able to afford a 3 bedroom." I said I needed to get my plan together for my next move, and said goodbye. 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but there isn't a court on the planet that would give this woman primary custody of her D7 after the wreck she's created of her own life, right? :scratchhead: After the affair, her leaving the house and kids to move to a different apartment (where posOM got an apartment that same day in the same complex). Even if she stops drinking, gets another job and continues counseling? Right?

She just signed up for foodstamps and welfare, because she has no job. I have a stable job with a great income (IT Manager) at a company I've been with for 13 years, a nice home where D7 and I live in a very safe community, have never lost a job due to being drunk or straight up dishonesty. She had a pretty sweet deal lined up before her where she was getting some 401k money and me paying off the debt (due to her giving up the house completely and giving me primary custody). This woman is truly nuts, and she talked with an attorney and didn't tell him the whole story, or talked with a freakin' IDIOT of an attorney if they really think they can win this one..

Please chime in.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

On the bright side, I no longer feel sad about the pesky anniversary date thing..


----------



## happyman64

GoodGuy

A judge could still favor your wife. Who knows right now???

You need to document everything.

You need to be represented by a good attorney so miss foodstamps does not continue to lie, cheat and act nuts.

I think right now a stable parent, stable home and good environ ment for your daughter is great.

Make sure your attorney makes the judge see that too.

HM


----------



## Bullwinkle

GG

Your wife is a WOMAN so any court will strongly consider her petitions. She and her lawyer will lie and say she has no drinking problem and that the affair really wasn't an affair, just a friendship, even if you have pictures of them bareback in a BMW. Those pictures could have been doctored. She will counter-accuse of stuff that may be total lies. 

What I don't get is how she will get the money to file.


----------



## GutPunch

Who has been the primary caregiver for your D after STBXW left?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> Who has been the primary caregiver for your D after STBXW left?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ME. And I took care of my stepson after she moved so that he could finish the school year out at the same school.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

it was only the last couple of weeks since she got fired from her last job that she's spent any significant time with D7, because she had no job to go to!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

This is burning me up right now...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

So drunk she got kicked out of the party and slept in her car.

Tell her you'll give her a chunk of cash if she writes down on paper:

I, stbxw's name, acknowledge that I have problems with alcohol and need to attend AA meetings regularly. Signed Her name.

Once she signs you can use the document in court.


----------



## GutPunch

TheGoodGuy said:


> ME. And I took care of my stepson after she moved so that he could finish the school year out at the same school.


The courts will weigh heavily who takes care of the child on a daily basis.
Where she wakes up...Who takes her to school...Dr. etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Yep, that was all me for the last 2 months until this week where she has had her all week. Apparently that's what opened her eyes that D7 really needed her and she needed D7.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Well...Get her back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

How? This weekend was her weekend with D7 anyway, and I thought the extra time with her mom instead of daycare would be preferable. Where did I go wrong here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## torn2012

Don't assume you are in the box seat just yet. I know it varies from state to state, country to country. But in my counrty the courts are very reluctant to separate siblings.

You really should go back to your lawyer with this new information. They'll be best placed to advise you on what's likely to happen in your state. Stay informed.

Stay calm mate.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Staying calm... Is there a version of pissed off that can remain calm? I have not contacted, other than to talk to D7. I did this by asking by text if I could talk to D7, then D7 called me. Other than that I'm just sitting on this for now to see if her impulsiveness will change her mind on fighting and getting ugly.


----------



## torn2012

You're entitled to be Pi$$ed off but just remember that it won't help you right now.

Keeping a cool head and making smart decisions will. You have been a rock star with this lately. Keep on that path.


----------



## smallsteps

What state are you in? I'm in new Jersey & once an adultery & abandonment come into play the party - whether male or female - that cheated and or abandoned are at a disadvantage.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Arkansas.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Arkansas.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Look into those state laws. Im not sure what the ones in your state are but look them up. You may be surprised. Hang in there!!! Shes going to throw everything at you because shes not getting her way.


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: The emotional roller coaster*



smallsteps said:


> Look into those state laws. Im not sure what the ones in your state are but look them up. You may be surprised. Hang in there!!! Shes going to throw everything at you because shes not getting her way.


I agree with all of this. I think this is a desperate attempt to regain control. I could be wrong but my gut is telling me that this move is more about her asserting herself over you than her believing she is best placed to care for your daughter.


----------



## LongWalk

She is in a weak position. Tell her you want to help her. Say that you believe that she wants to get the act together and you understand that she needs some money to stabilize herself. You will give her some cash when you pick up D. Offer to take them all to lunch. 

Ask her to sign a paper saying that she will go to AA. Have a wad of cash ready maybe even $800 or $1,500 will be a lot for her. Tell her its a loan in exchange for her agreeing to stopping drinking. If she is difficult, pretend to give in say you have more money in the car. When you get to the parking lot, get your daughter to scoot in make sure you leave with D.

If you stbx stands in the way of the car, call the police. Once you explain the situation to them. They'll support you.

Afterwards no more visitation with mom, unless the drops the custody crap....

Maybe this is all too complicated. Maybe you should talk to your lawyer and get child protective services involved.


----------



## smallsteps

LongWalk said:


> She is in a weak position. Tell her you want to help her. Say that you believe that she wants to get the act together and you understand that she needs some money to stabilize herself. You will give her some cash when you pick up D. Offer to take them all to lunch.
> 
> Ask her to sign a paper saying that she will go to AA. Have a wad of cash ready maybe even $800 or $1,500 will be a lot for her. Tell her its a loan in exchange for her agreeing to stopping drinking. If she is difficult, pretend to give in say you have more money in the car. When you get to the parking lot, get your daughter to scoot in make sure you leave with D.
> 
> If you stbx stands in the way of the car, call the police. Once you explain the situation to them. They'll support you.
> 
> Afterwards no more visitation with mom, unless the drops the custody
> crap....
> 
> Maybe this is all too complicated. Maybe you should talk to your lawyer and get child protective services involved.


These scenarios don't always work out well. When I was a child we went to Florida to visit my dad. My brother & sister (5&7) decided they wanted to stay. I (11 at the time) wanted to come home. My dad wouldn't put me on a plane until she agreeed. I was aware of all this since I had to make the call to my mom. Once I was home the lawyer told my mom fly to Florida go to the school my brother & sister were attending. He said show the custody papers to the principal & take the kids directly to the airport & leave. It was a disaster & I wound up not seeing my brother or sister for almost 4 years. Granted he should somehow try to get D7 back into his custody but be careful how its done. I'm 44 yrs old & still remember that time in my life all too well.


----------



## LongWalk

Small Steps, perhaps your traumatic childhood has something to do with your presence here? Custody fights are nasty, worse than cheating. Adultery is not a crime but parental abduction is.

Your mom never followed through on the lawyer's advice. In the end they split you like possessions. Horrible.

Good Guy's wife is economically at bottom. She won't have the money for a good lawyer.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I agree that this is more about money than custody of D. She's impulsive, so when crying and coming on to me didn't work, she turned 180 and decided that the only thing left was to try for primary custody, child support, and alimony. She's getting close to rock bottom and grasping for straws now. The thing is if she signed the papers she would actually be getting some money! 

Guys, I don't think my D is in danger when she's with her. She is on better behavior around her, and I just don't see how ripping my D away from her is the right move right now.

Going to talk with my attorney today and see what he says. I may tell him to hold off on actually doing anything until I get my D back Sunday night.


----------



## torn2012

You're getting better at this GG.


----------



## GutPunch

I wasn't implying a kidnapping.

You just need to establish yourself 
as primary caregiver which you are.

Definitely talk to Lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VFW

Actually I see this as control on her part. She does need money and is in between jobs, so she tried to get you to take her back. If she could get back in the house, then she would have control. Now she is increasing the ante and trying for custody, this again gives her control. 

Be careful of this trap as she will do many things to bait you into losing control, but don't fall for it GG. She has been manipulating people for years, much like a child would do. She cries and you buckle to her desires, the spoiled child wins. I imagine if you think about it carefully you will see traces of a child-parent relationship. There is nothing wrong with being a Good Guy, but you do have to be careful not to become Dudley Do-Right that is always saving the damsel in distress. 

Stay calm externally and get the upper hand legally, get her served on your terms. Hopefully she will find a new job and be back to wanting her freedom again.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thanks vfw, that is my plan for now. And no, no going back to mr. Nice Guy or Dudley do right
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

LongWalk said:


> Small Steps, perhaps your traumatic childhood has something to do with your presence here? Custody fights are nasty, worse than cheating. Adultery is not a crime but parental abduction is.
> 
> Your mom never followed through on the lawyer's advice. In the end they split you like possessions. Horrible.
> 
> Good Guy's wife is economically at bottom. She won't have the money for a good lawyer.


LW - I don't want to go into detail why I'm on these boards on this thread. I do have 2 original posts explaining what happened to me. Long story short - I was married 24&1/2 yrs - husband came home from work Jan.2nd told me he wasn't happy & was moving out. I wanted counceling - he dropped the bomb there was someone else & it had been going on for a while. Hes living with her now.


----------



## smallsteps

LongWalk said:


> Small Steps, perhaps your traumatic childhood has something to do with your presence here? Custody fights are nasty, worse than cheating. Adultery is not a crime but parental abduction is.
> 
> Your mom never followed through on the lawyer's advice. In the end they split you like possessions. Horrible.
> 
> Good Guy's wife is economically at bottom. She won't have the money for a good lawyer.


My mother did go to the school - both of us & my grandfather. My brother was ready to go but my sister pitched a fit which led to the principal calling my father & stepmother and that turned into a spectical. In the end we left the school & my mom tried to do it through the courts but didn't have the money in the end to fight it. It still affects me but after much therapy I'm at peace with it. We are all fine now. But its why I didn't want my own marriage to fall apart - I didn't want my kids to have divorced parents.


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> I agree that this is more about money than custody of D. She's impulsive, so when crying and coming on to me didn't work, she turned 180 and decided that the only thing left was to try for primary custody, child support, and alimony. She's getting close to rock bottom and grasping for straws now. The thing is if she signed the papers she would actually be getting some money!
> 
> Guys, I don't think my D is in danger when she's with her. She is on better behavior around her, and I just don't see how ripping my D away from her is the right move right now.
> 
> Going to talk with my attorney today and see what he says. I may tell him to hold off on actually doing anything until I get my D back Sunday night.


Might be a good idea - just be ready for when shes back in your custody to do what needs to be done to get what you think is fair.


----------



## warlock07

She is lashing out after getting rejected. Looks like a control issue. or she got herself a scumbag lawyer counsel.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

warlock07 said:


> She is lashing out after getting rejected. Looks like a control issue. or she got herself a scumbag lawyer counsel.


Yup, either scumbag lawyer counsel or potentially a member of her family or a new friend I'm guessing. yeah it's a control thing. This would all be much easier if she would stick with the original agreement so that we didn't have to get ugly in court.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Talked with D7 tonight. Talked about how she was, what she had done today, etc. Talked with me for a long time, which was nice. STBX had taken them to the store and bought an entertainment center, new table for the kitchen, yada, yada yada. I'm assuming she opened another credit card or something. There is no way she could have bought all that without that. Then as I was saying goodbye to D7, she asked if I would be picking her up or if STBX would be dropping her off. I said that she would be dropped off at my house. I heard STBX say something in the background, and D7 said can you pick me up here? I said, how about we meet in the middle and I clearly heard STBX say "that would be nice". I don't feel like this was a #3 since I really need to get D7 back here with me so that I can figure out my next move. Thoughts?


----------



## LongWalk

Get her back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## torn2012

Agree. Sadly, sounds like stbx is capable of denying access if you push too hard. Play nice until she is safely with you.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I have D7 back with me safe and sound. More drama from stbx that I will elaborate on in the morning. Taking the day off tomorrow so that I can make sure and talk with my attorney tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle

Best of luck with it, GG.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I said I would give details about the conversation, but I just don't feel up to digging it all up. To sum it up, in an emotional rage yesterday she started saying some really hateful things to me. She's still blameshifting a lot. She is fixed on the point that a little girl needs her daughter, and her example was that D7 had not been bathed while we were camping last weekend. OK, guilty. She missed a bath for the 2 days we were camping at the lake. The thing is that we have many examples of not bathing for a short camping weekend when we did it as a family (for you non-campers, it sounds gross, but it's just what happens when you're camping for 2 days. you come back dirty and bathe when you get home.) 

I'm seriously worried that whatever scumbag attorney she might have will blow this and many other things into huge things that make me look like a horrible father. I'm not. I took care of both kids for 2 months when she left. She kept throwing in my face the years when she didn't work and took care of the kids while I worked. 2 months vs several years is what she kept saying. 

I don't want this to get ugly. Maybe it's for selfish reasons, but I just don't want to have to endure that if possible. Is it possible for me to calmly approach her about joint custody for D7? Re-negotiate our deal and try to move on? I am worried that this is partly (probably a large part) a money play for her, and while I want the best for my daughter, I feel defensive about her taking me to the cleaners after cheating on me and leaving me and the kids while in the fog. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Conrad

Don't react to it.

Cool, firm, dispassionate

Do not give her what she wants.


----------



## torn2012

2 days of not bathing while camping does not equate to neglect. In fact it's normal. She's trying to manufacture a case against you and this is all she can come up with.

You've done nothing wrong so don't sweat on that.

Take Conrad's advice.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

She currently has primary custody of SS13, D7's (half) brother. how do the courts view splitting of siblings? This also worries me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

Do not give her want she wants.

Lawyer time. 

Protect yourself. These conversations with her need to be recorded.


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> She currently has primary custody of SS13, D7's (half) brother. how do the courts view splitting of siblings? This also worries me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Google "will Arkansas split siblings in child custody issues" a lot of info will come up. Click on "custody FAQ Tripcony May & associates" there is some interesting stuff there. Id say get a hold of your lawyer as soon as you can.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Still waiting to hear from my attorney. Should I be looking for another one? I'd hate to start this whole thing again but geez can't I expect an email reply or a phone call once every few days? 

STBX is on her last leg financially. This morning it was "I spent all my money on the kids last weekend taking them to the movies and out to eat". She hasn't asked for money, but says she might not have the gas to drive down to see D7 tonight. Depends on whether she can talk to the unemployment people today and get a "paperwork issue" cleared up. I'm not up on the latest unemployment laws, but if you get fired from a job they don't have to pay you squat do they?


----------



## GutPunch

TheGoodGuy said:


> Still waiting to hear from my attorney. Should I be looking for another one? I'd hate to start this whole thing again but geez can't I expect an email reply or a phone call once every few days?
> 
> STBX is on her last leg financially. This morning it was "I spent all my money on the kids last weekend taking them to the movies and out to eat". She hasn't asked for money, but says she might not have the gas to drive down to see D7 tonight. Depends on whether she can talk to the unemployment people today and get a "paperwork issue" cleared up. I'm not up on the latest unemployment laws, but if you get fired from a job they don't have to pay you squat do they?


Lawyers are terrible at returning calls. If you aren't comfortable, get a new one. Do your research. 

The rest of your post my feelings are.....That's her problem and no generally if you are fired with cause unemployment isn't an option.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Been a few days since I updated my thread. Some really good days, some not so good. Lawyer finally started contacted me and I might just have things lined up to where she will sign the papers. Wish me luck.

Tonight was difficult in a couple of different ways. I went to pick up D7, and ended up talking with STBX for a few minutes. I've got to stop doing that, but I'm trying to be a coparent with her. She started crying and wanted to ask one last time if I would take her back. She said she misses our family. She apologized again for everything she caused. Asked if there was anything she could do to win my trust back again. I pretty much told her no. Not in an angry or hurt way, I just said that things could never be the same again. That that marriage was dead. The conversation lasted probably 10 minutes with several dead spots, neither one of us saying anything. I had plans to take D7 to a minor league baseball game tonight so I said I needed to go, let D7 hug her mom and brother, and left.

This is tearing me up tonight. I left the game after the 6th inning because I needed to get D7 to bed. She couldn't sleep and kept crying for her mom. It's breaking my heart. If we didn't have kids this would be so much easier, but because of the kids it pulls at my heart strings soooo much. I know I'm doing the right thing because their mom is in such a bad place at the moment, but I fear my daughter (and step-son) will resent me for not caving and getting the family back together. 

What do you say to a daughter who says "I don't want to go with you.. momma needs me right now.." It shouldn't be up to a 7 year old to console their mother right? But if STBX is so codependent that she can't help but fill her need to be paid attention to, and filling their little heads with stuff, what can I do? 

Damn her for doing this.. I'm a big boy and can handle it, but was she so damn deep in the fog that she couldn't play this scenario out in her head and figure out a way to make things work before opening her legs for another man? I can't take her back at this point, for me. She always tells on herself, and I found out a week or so ago that she's now slept with another guy in her apartment complex. It didn't surprise me, or really hurt that much. My love for her is all but gone. But I do care in some way because of the kids. Some tiny part of me way back there wishes things could be the way they used to be. Little nice guy me sweeping everything under the rug just to keep the peace, but at least the kids were together. But I know they can never be the same again. It would be the biggest #3 of my entire life if I let her back. It stresses me out just thinking about it as an option.


Sorry for the long post. had a lot to catch you guys up on. Comments/suggestions are welcome.


----------



## torn2012

You are doing the right thing here by not caving in. You might feel like the kids will resent you for it but remember the example you set for them if you allow yourself to be trampled on and do nothing about it.

You are right to be concerned about your stbx's dependence on your daughter. In my early counseling sessions I made an off the cuff remark about needing the kids to be around because it made me feel better. My counselor was quick to lecture me on the long term detrimental effect of allowing a child to be responsible for an adult's wellbeing. To paraphrase her - do not allow your daughter to be robbed of her childhood in order for her to take care of you or your ex.

Hang in there buddy. Things will get better in time. You've just got to ride this rough patch out while everyone gets used to the new world you live in.


----------



## Bullwinkle

gG

I agree with Torn on this. And yes, it's hear wrenching when the kids say stuff like yours did and you're caught in the middle. My D3 asked me on Sunday if I hated Mama. I said no, but that things would be different from now on. 

I also agree that you're going to have to really ascend to 50,000 feet and simply observe for a while.


----------



## LongWalk

> I can't take her back at this point, for me. *She always tells on herself*, and I found out a week or so ago that she's now slept with another guy in her apartment complex. It didn't surprise me, or really hurt that much. My love for her is all but gone.


She's trying to win you back by sharing her life experiences. Generosity itself.


----------



## smallsteps

LongWalk said:


> She's trying to win you back by sharing her life experiences. Generosity itself.


Yeah - nice thing to share ( not). But then again maybe she did him a favor as hurtful as something like this is to find out. He knows hes doing the right thing by going through with the D. It only re- enforces what hes suspected all along.


----------



## smallsteps

Observation is a wonderful thing.


----------



## happyman64

GG

If your wife was truly remorseful and missed you she would keep her legs closed.

It hurts when your kids hurt.

But she caused this problem.

Not you.

HM


----------



## Conrad

Guy,

How'd you find out she banged another one?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

She flat out told me Conrad. Teary eyed "I was sooo lonely" when it was her weekend without the kids type of thing. And yes, it just reinforces my decision to be done. There are more behaviors that I'm observing as well. I'm no longer mourning the loss of my marriage, but I do feel terrible for the children whose lives have been turned upside down through all of this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VFW

I am glad that you are progressing, though I know that it is difficult to see her in this broken state. However, no matter how broken she happens to be, it is unfair for her to project this on to the children. I hope that you consider counseling for them to understand the situation. She is putting them in a very bad situation for her own selfish reasons.....again.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> She flat out told me Conrad. Teary eyed "I was sooo lonely" when it was her weekend without the kids type of thing. And yes, it just reinforces my decision to be done. There are more behaviors that I'm observing as well. I'm no longer mourning the loss of my marriage, but I do feel terrible for the children whose lives have been turned upside down through all of this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good God

She looking for "sympathy"?

Well, let's see.

I'm here at home.

I could watch TV

I could try out a new recipe

I could log onto a marriage forum and try to improve my life.

I could exercise

I could check out local MeetUp groups.

I could start a new hobby

I could clean the place

I could do laundry

I could wash my hair.

I could go shopping.

or...

I could go bang *ANOTHER* posOM!!!!!

Ding, ding, ding... we have a loser!


----------



## GutPunch

Another Guy! Are you shi**ing me? 

I'm so sorry. It's time to cut bait. 

Don't feel sorry for her one bit.


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Another Guy! Are you shi**ing me?
> 
> I'm so sorry. It's time to cut bait.
> 
> Don't feel sorry for her one bit.


And, her telling him is a pure fitness test.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Add one more to your list Conrad: I could get off my ass and go find a freakin job!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GutPunch said:


> Another Guy! Are you shi**ing me?
> 
> I'm so sorry. It's time to cut bait.
> 
> Don't feel sorry for her one bit.


I feel zero pity for HER. But as a father I'm sorry the kids have to be put through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Add one more to your list Conrad: I could get off my ass and go find a freakin job!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like a plan.

You do realize that the happiest people who frequent this forum are those that come here totally confused and leave with enough information to confidently take the next step in their lives - whatever it is.

You are now one of those.


----------



## GutPunch

TheGoodGuy said:


> I feel zero pity for HER. But as a father I'm sorry the kids have to be put through this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know that feeling very well. Be there for them when they need you. They will recover faster than you do....at least mine did.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> Sounds like a plan.
> 
> You do realize that the happiest people who frequent this forum are those that come here totally confused and leave with enough information to confidently take the next step in their lives - whatever it is.
> 
> You are now one of those.


Oh I have a solid career. I was adding to the list if things she could have been doing instead of opening her legs for yet another posOM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Oh I have a solid career. I was adding to the list if things she could have been doing instead of opening her legs for yet another posOM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You mean you are laughing at her bullshix excuses?


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> You mean you are laughing at her bullshix excuses?


Yes. Roflmao
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Yes. Roflmao
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That means you are healed.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> That means you are healed.


I appreciate it. I feel healed from that part, but still angry that her stupid selfish actions have caused the kids so much drama, trauma, and uncertainty in their lives. Like I said, I'm a grown man and will figure out how to move on (done), but they're innocent kids.. Smh
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I appreciate it. I feel healed from that part, but still angry that her stupid selfish actions have caused the kids so much drama, trauma, and uncertainty in their lives. Like I said, I'm a grown man and will figure out how to move on (done), but they're innocent kids.. Smh
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We cannot control the stupid actions of others.

We shouldn't desire the power.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> We cannot control the stupid actions of others.
> 
> We shouldn't desire the power.


Understood, I've calmed down this afternoon. Thanks for listening to me b1tch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Stbx is asking me (nicely) to print off our 2012 tax return because she needs it to file for financial assistance from the state (welfare? Food stamps? Not sure). I don't want to hinder her getting some money to take care of herself and ss13, but this sounds curious. She had no income in 2012. Only mine. Can't the state look up our income from last year? Is this some ploy to show "see he has plenty of money, he should pay me support..."?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Stbx is asking me (nicely) to print off our 2012 tax return because she needs it to file for financial assistance from the state (welfare? Food stamps? Not sure). I don't want to hinder her getting some money to take care of herself and ss13, but this sounds curious. She had no income in 2012. Only mine. Can't the state look up our income from last year? Is this some ploy to show "see he has plenty of money, he should pay me support..."?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Refer her to your attorney.


----------



## warlock07

TheGoodGuy said:


> She flat out told me Conrad. Teary eyed "I was sooo lonely" when it was her weekend without the kids type of thing. And yes, it just reinforces my decision to be done. There are more behaviors that I'm observing as well. I'm no longer mourning the loss of my marriage, but I do feel terrible for the children whose lives have been turned upside down through all of this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:crazy::crazy:


She is a total crazy nut case...


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Pretty much warlock. Smh
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Wish things could go back to the way they used to be.. I know they can't.. Triggering tonight. :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Wish things could go back to the way they used to be.. I know they can't.. Triggering tonight. :-(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stop & try to get it together - what do you think caused the trigger??


----------



## smallsteps

You sound like me last week....


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I wa so ready to do the heavy lifting. She wasnt/isn't. The children suffer the most. Hard to type while bawling like this. Need GutPunch to punch me in the gut and tell me to man up right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## torn2012

You are on a path to a better life. There will be hard inclines (now) and if you're lucky the odd downhill stretch. Keep trudging on.

You started this journey for a reason. Your ex is still a *expletive*. Don't look back now because you and everyone here know you deserve better.


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> I wa so ready to do the heavy lifting. She wasnt/isn't. The children suffer the most. Hard to type while bawling like this. Need GutPunch to punch me in the gut and tell me to man up right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know you were - this is not about you & you know that. Shes a hot mess & you are going to be so much better off without her - you may not see it now but you will I promise!! You cannot fix her - you cannot change things. Your kids will be fine trust me. I went through the same thing when I was your daughters age & I'm still standing & I'm fine. You are a good dad - just be there for them as this process goes on. With all the work you have done you know all this. You are just feeling down tonight. Try & switch your thinking - watch something on Tv - read a book - try & get some sleep - things always look better in the morning.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I wa so ready to do the heavy lifting. She wasnt/isn't. The children suffer the most. Hard to type while bawling like this. Need GutPunch to punch me in the gut and tell me to man up right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We're busy hammering on him to man up


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: The emotional roller coaster*



TheGoodGuy said:


> The children suffer the most.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I want to challenge this statement.

Early in my own marriage breakdown I made similar statements. Seizing on every tear they shed or moment of sadness to reinforce my argument. All the while ignoring all the evidence of them adjusting better than I gave them credit for. Sure, they suffered some. I did my best to help them through those times.

But looking back now I see that I was the one that suffered the most. Drawing everyone's attention to the harm it was causing the children was a deflection.

Do you relate to this GG?


----------



## smallsteps

How are things this morning? I hope you are feeling better today...


----------



## LongWalk

She is a mess. All you can do is tell to get her **** together. Is there anyone in her life to whom she can turn for guidance? She needs professional help. You shouldn't be twirling the rubiks cube of her shattered mind.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> Stop & try to get it together - what do you think caused the trigger??


A stupid movie I was watching where a girl left her average husband for a better looking guy.. I was not feeling confident last night about ever being able to trust someone again. Feeling fine today though.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

torn2012 said:


> You are on a path to a better life. There will be hard inclines (now) and if you're lucky the odd downhill stretch. Keep trudging on.
> 
> You started this journey for a reason. Your ex is still a *expletive*. Don't look back now because you and everyone here know you deserve better.


Thanks T12. Looking forward again this morning. I'll be fine I know.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

torn2012 said:


> I want to challenge this statement.
> 
> Early in my own marriage breakdown I made similar statements. Seizing on every tear they shed or moment of sadness to reinforce my argument. All the while ignoring all the evidence of them adjusting better than I gave them credit for. Sure, they suffered some. I did my best to help them through those times.
> 
> But looking back now I see that I was the one that suffered the most. Drawing everyone's attention to the harm it was causing the children was a deflection.
> 
> Do you relate to this GG?


Hmm.. I suppose I can relate a little. It's a different way of looking at things. Last week I had a bad morning one morning dropping D7 off at child care for the day. She didn't want to go.. wanted to go back to being with mamma.. didn't want me to leave.. crying. After I finally got her to go in got back out to my vehicle, I was screaming mad. Absolutely cursing STBX at the top of my lungs for doing this to that little girl. But she was fine the rest of the week. You're probably right, I bet she has less bad days than I do.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

LongWalk said:


> She is a mess. All you can do is tell to get her **** together. Is there anyone in her life to whom she can turn for guidance? She needs professional help. You shouldn't be twirling the rubiks cube of her shattered mind.


LW, she is currently seeing a counsellor twice a week, which is good. It can't fix what she's done, but hopefully it might make her a better co-parent.


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> A stupid movie I was watching where a girl left her average husband for a better looking guy.. I was not feeling confident last night about ever being able to trust someone again. Feeling fine today though.


I understand that. I feel the same way. Its going to take a long time but I'm sure we'll be able to trust again. Don't try to rush the process - we have a lot to learn about ourselves first.


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: The emotional roller coaster*



TheGoodGuy said:


> A stupid movie I was watching where a girl left her average husband for a better looking guy.. I was not feeling confident last night about ever being able to trust someone again. Feeling fine today though.


When the one person we expect will always put us above all others chooses another it's almost impossible to not feel inadequate. This feeling of inadequacy is very hard to shake.

Your ex tried to make it work with catering POSOM. Didn't turn out the way she thought it would. Then some random guy in her building. Still didn't measure up. 

Now she begs for you to take her back. Why? Because she has seen the other side of the fence and the grass is not greener. YOU are the better man. The others are inadequate.

Women who are "wife material" value men of substance. You take care of your children. You hurt when they hurt and you fight to keep them safe. You are a man of substance. Women of substance will find you attractive when you're ready to put yourself out there!


----------



## GutPunch

Keep moving forward. 

You got this. 

She has no power over you.

She has given you a new lease on life.

Seize it. Let her deal with her own mess.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I know guys. Last night's emotion wasn't really about stbx (or was it)? I got terrified of ever being able to trust another woman FULLY to not run off when something shinier comes along. Yes, there will always be newer shinier models (car analogy) that come along. I just need to find someone who is willing to be with me into old age and not choose another over me. I know she's out there.. Not trying to rush things by any measure. Just working on myself right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> I know guys. Last night's emotion wasn't really about stbx (or was it)? I got terrified of ever being able to trust another woman FULLY to not run off when something shinier comes along. Yes, there will always be newer shinier models (car analogy) that come along. I just need to find someone who is willing to be with me into old age and not choose another over me. I know she's out there.. Not trying to rush things by any measure. Just working on myself right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Aren't you getting a bit ahead of yourself?


----------



## smallsteps

Conrad said:


> Aren't you getting a bit ahead of yourself?


Not necessarily - we shouldn't be worrying about it right now but we do. Especially if we have no intention of reconciling with the spouse. I admit its something that goes through my mind too. I think its just human nature to wonder - maybe even part of our healing process - will we ever be able to trust again?


----------



## Conrad

smallsteps said:


> Not necessarily - we shouldn't be worrying about it right now but we do. Especially if we have no intention of reconciling with the spouse. I admit its something that goes through my mind too. I think its just human nature to wonder - maybe even part of our healing process - will we ever be able to trust again?


I can see pondering it.

Triggering over it seems a bit reactive.

Might be something to discuss in IC for him.


----------



## smallsteps

Conrad said:


> I can see pondering it.
> 
> Triggering over it seems a bit reactive.
> 
> Might be something to discuss in IC for him.


That's true - and you are right. There might have been more that was bothering him than he realizes - its just that the trust issue is what he focused on.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Conrad said:


> I can see pondering it.
> 
> Triggering over it seems a bit reactive.
> 
> Might be something to discuss in IC for him.


I see IC Thursday. I'll definitely talk it through with her.

Did I just put I see IC? Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> I see IC Thursday. I'll definitely talk it through with her.
> 
> Did I just put I see IC? Lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You made a joke & you're laughing - that's s good sign!!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

It is getting easier.. Slowly but surely.. Humor helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> It is getting easier.. Slowly but surely.. Humor helps.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It absolutely does.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

GG update: Paperwork is complete, reviewed by me, reviewed with STBX, she agreed to sign. This is a good.. um.. sign. Meeting her at the bank tomorrow to get it all notarized and then I'll hand it to my attorney. 

Had a great session with IC today. We talked about my reaction to trust issues. She said it was all very early in my recovery. I agreed with her that my next relationships would need to start very slowly (coffees/lunches with other people so there wasn't so much pressure to feel out intimacy right away). I told her that I was worried about my personality being that I fell in love/infatuation too easily, and that by the time a red flag showed itself I wouldn't be able to detach easily enough to stand by my boundaries and break it off. She agreed that yes, that was my personality before, and the key was to recognize that and move slower. 

Every relationship I've had seems to have been a whirlwind at the beginning. A few dates with a woman who intrigues me, then right into sex very quickly. She said I get "seduced" very easily, and my personality makes it easy for me to mistake infatuation/dopamine for love. After this 9 year marriage I can look back and see this clearly. 

So I'm just out of the deep woods, able to see many things about my marriage clearly, though I know I'm nowhere near being completely in the clearing.. but I feel myself growing stronger and more confident. She said that this confidence in myself, my life, my abilities, what I bring to the table is key. The key to being able to express my boundaries, no matter how many dates/months/experiences with a person, and be able to notice those red flags later on and confidently say "I'm not OK with that" and be OK walking away from it. 

That was huge for me. I'm striving to get to that level where I don't immediately latch on to someone expecting so much from them, so that it's easier down the line when/if those red flags appear.


----------



## smallsteps

Very nice - sounds like you are learning a lot about yourself. Good luck tomorrow - fingers crossed!!


----------



## torn2012

Hey Good Guy, is it weird if feel proud of you for the progress you've made?


----------



## LongWalk

You've survived an ordeal. Your ex is a real mess. You can do better than her.


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> GG update: Paperwork is complete, reviewed by me, reviewed with STBX, she agreed to sign. This is a good.. um.. sign. Meeting her at the bank tomorrow to get it all notarized and then I'll hand it to my attorney.
> 
> Had a great session with IC today. We talked about my reaction to trust issues. She said it was all very early in my recovery. I agreed with her that my next relationships would need to start very slowly (coffees/lunches with other people so there wasn't so much pressure to feel out intimacy right away). I told her that I was worried about my personality being that I fell in love/infatuation too easily, and that by the time a red flag showed itself I wouldn't be able to detach easily enough to stand by my boundaries and break it off. She agreed that yes, that was my personality before, and the key was to recognize that and move slower.
> 
> Every relationship I've had seems to have been a whirlwind at the beginning. A few dates with a woman who intrigues me, then right into sex very quickly. She said I get "seduced" very easily, and my personality makes it easy for me to mistake infatuation/dopamine for love. After this 9 year marriage I can look back and see this clearly.
> 
> So I'm just out of the deep woods, able to see many things about my marriage clearly, though I know I'm nowhere near being completely in the clearing.. but I feel myself growing stronger and more confident. She said that this confidence in myself, my life, my abilities, what I bring to the table is key. The key to being able to express my boundaries, no matter how many dates/months/experiences with a person, and be able to notice those red flags later on and confidently say "I'm not OK with that" and be OK walking away from it.
> 
> That was huge for me. I'm striving to get to that level where I don't immediately latch on to someone expecting so much from them, so that it's easier down the line when/if those red flags appear.


As a rule of thumb, if you have a potentially abusive partner, they will show their hand around Day #100 - when they think it's "safe"


----------



## Ms. GP

I read a book recently called "Better Boundaries". It was very helpful. It not only discussed how to set appropriate boundaries with people, but how to recognize people with unhealthy boundaries. I think you and your IC are on to something here. I hope it helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

FYI. I suck at boundaries. I used to joke about being a crazy magnet, but when you don't recognize a person with unhealthy boundaries and don't establish your own set of boundaries early on in a relationship (without feeling bad about it). You kinda are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Feel proud all you'd like Torn, thank you. I feel proud of myself as we'll. Ms. GP, I'm currently reading a book called 'Boundaries" as well. Need to finish it up soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Ms. GP said:


> FYI. I suck at boundaries. I used to joke about being a crazy magnet, but when you don't recognize a person with unhealthy boundaries and don't establish your own set of boundaries early on in a relationship (without feeling bad about it). You kinda are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You "may" only have that in common with every participant in this subforum.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Damn.. I almost hate to share my good news after reading BW's recent bad news, but I must. Hang in there BW.

The new papers with agreed upon terms are signed and given to attorney! I get primary physical custody, with joint "legal" custody for the purposes of agreeing on any major medical, extracurricular, and religious decisions (i would have done this anyway but she wanted the language in there, i was ok with it). Standard visitation unless we agree to additional as it fits.. We'll see depending on her crazy job schedules she apparently likes. She pays me child support. I don't want/need her money but my attorney said the judge would want to see it in there. If she actually pays I'll put it in a savings account for D7s college. 

So the secretary at the office said she's scheduling a court appearance for me (just me as the custodial parent) as early as mid next week and then I'll be done!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## torn2012

That's great news buddy.


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## Bullwinkle

Thanks for the mention and the kind thought, GG. 

I'm really happy for you amigo, you represent a case where the legal system worked. You've been through Hell and you deserve it. 

I hope that a year from now you're in Cancun with a former porn star who made millions on the stock market. 


BW.


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## GutPunch

Awesome...I bet you sleep good tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

Great news - I'm really happy for you!! You stuck it out and now its pretty much over! I'm glad you got primary physical custody - I'm positive you are going to make sure that little girl grows up to be a great - well adjusted young woman someday. Congratulations!!!!


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## TheGoodGuy

Bullwinkle said:


> Thanks for the mention and the kind thought, GG.
> 
> I'm really happy for you amigo, you represent a case where the legal system worked. You've been through Hell and you deserve it.
> 
> I hope that a year from now you're in Cancun with a former porn star who made millions on the stock market.
> 
> 
> BW.


Hell, do I really have to wait a year if I meet the millionaire ex porn star tomorrow?


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## Bullwinkle

No, GG. no waiting. And it doesn't have to be Cancun. Could be Poukeepsie. Point is you are indeed one of the good guys. Sometimes life DOES have a happy ending.


----------



## smallsteps

Ugh you guys lol!!!


----------



## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> Damn.. I almost hate to share my good news after reading BW's recent bad news, but I must. Hang in there BW.
> 
> The new papers with agreed upon terms are signed and given to attorney! I get primary physical custody, with joint "legal" custody for the purposes of agreeing on any major medical, extracurricular, and religious decisions (i would have done this anyway but she wanted the language in there, i was ok with it). Standard visitation unless we agree to additional as it fits.. We'll see depending on her crazy job schedules she apparently likes. She pays me child support. I don't want/need her money but my attorney said the judge would want to see it in there. If she actually pays I'll put it in a savings account for D7s college.
> 
> So the secretary at the office said she's scheduling a court appearance for me (just me as the custodial parent) as early as mid next week and then I'll be done!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Congrats brother.


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## TheGoodGuy

Thank you ALL. I honestly don't know what I would have done without the support of this forum, my IC, and my family. It was so helpful (and triggersome sometimes) to read what others were going through. To watch them go through the same stages I went through.. Without all of that I probably would have caved, taken her back after a couple of weeks, swept everything under the rug, and been miserable until the next time she left me. My eyes are so wide open now. I am AWARE. Or at least getting there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

That's good to hear. You have all the time in the world now!!


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## TheGoodGuy

Bullwinkle said:


> you represent a case where the legal system worked.


By the way BW, I'm not sure what the differences are in our state laws, but we also had very different wives. If mine had gotten her ship together early on, or kept her job(s) and had money for an attorney, things could have ended very differently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## torn2012

*Re: Re: The emotional roller coaster*



Bullwinkle said:


> Thanks for the mention and the kind thought, GG.
> 
> I'm really happy for you amigo, you represent a case where the legal system worked. You've been through Hell and you deserve it.
> 
> I hope that a year from now you're in Cancun with a former porn star who made millions on the stock market.
> 
> 
> BW.


BW, That you can be pleased for GG's good fortune during your own struggle shows great character on your part.

Not that I know much about your story. I've seen references to it and I've opened your thread out of curiosity. But the sheer size of it is intimidating. It took a month to read Gutpunch's thread and his is half the size. I'd need a summarized version of events just to keep up with all the references to frostline and domestic violence. 

There's an idea for a thread. Summarize an epic TAM thread in one post.


----------



## GutPunch

I'll sum it up for you.

BW rocks!

but he doesn't listen.


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## torn2012

Haha. BW sounds a lot like me.

Ok then, What is frostline?

Sorry for the thread jack GG.


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## GutPunch

Frostine is his STBXW with the nice boobers.


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## TheGoodGuy

Good summary GP, lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## torn2012

Nice boobers? Well no wonder he doesn't listen.


----------



## happyman64

torn2012 said:


> Nice boobers? Well no wonder he doesn't listen.


Yes. Her boobers hypnotize him and cause him to only think with his pen!s instead of his brain.

It happens to most men between the ages of 13 - -85.

And people say there is no God. There has to be one to make us suffer so badly just at sight of a nice set of boobers. 

Maybe I shoud start a new thread about the stupid things guys do over a nice set of boobers or a nice behind???

Both men and women will most likely be enthralled over this thread as well as likely contribute.......


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## TheGoodGuy

Well folks, it's almost finished. Court date is tomorrow at 9am. I have mixed feelings.. Mostly relief that this nightmare is almost over. Some apprehension of the unknown. Some sadness that it came to this. Anyone who has been through a similar experience all the way through to divorce care to comment as to how they felt?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## torn2012

My finalized divorce order arrived in my mailbox yesterday. My first thought when I opened it was "Free at last... Free at last!"

But I'm coming from a position of having moved on. The love of a good woman can change your perspective on life.

I'm sure it's different for everyone. I have a feeling you will be nervous while it all happens and relieved once it's done.

Why? Because you've moved on.


----------



## Awakening2012

TheGoodGuy said:


> Well folks, it's almost finished. Court date is tomorrow at 9am. I have mixed feelings.. Mostly relief that this nightmare is almost over. Some apprehension of the unknown. Some sadness that it came to this. Anyone who has been through a similar experience all the way through to divorce care to comment as to how they felt?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi GG - 

It is different for everyone, depending on their circumstances, but bound to be mixed emotions -- sadness for the loss of a love you never imagined would not endure, but gratitude for being out of limbo, and start re-imagining your life, discovering again who you are and what you want, what are your goals and priotrities.

For my part, I felt very sad -- but also releived to stop wondering "is there some chance to save this marriage"? No, it is clearly now all about re-buiding and getting my life to a happier place. As much as I loved him and hoped for a different outcome, I cannot remain attached to someone who no longer wants me. Time to start valuing my own worth, and recommend you do the same, bud.

Good luck and best wishes!

Best,- A12


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Thank you both. Why am I nervous about standing in front of the judge tomorrow? I have nothing to hide.. Never thought this marriage would end like this.. guess nobody does though...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thank you both. Why am I nervous about standing in front of the judge tomorrow? I have nothing to hide.. Never thought this marriage would end like this.. guess nobody does though...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because its the end of a chapter in your life - no one ever enters a marriage thinking that this is going to be the end result but it happens - look at how many of us are here.

And hey - everyone gets nervous standing in front of a judge no matter what the circumstance.


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## Bullwinkle

You'll be fine, GG, you clearly HAVE grown throughout all this. Partly because you have listened to these wise folks. GP was right about me, I have a history of resistance. 

Don't make the mistakes I did. you're really progressing, God love you, amigo.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

SS, BW, thank you. I know I'll be fine. I do well in times of stress. Just trying to sleep tonight so that I'm fresh in the AM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bullwinkle

Get your azz to bed. Put on a clean shirt, blah blah blah. Good luck.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Clean shirt? Shiz! I was planning on wearing my sweat stained wife beater I've worn all these years.. Bad idea?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bullwinkle

Ummmmm..... No. But when I was in court last week, there were people in there in tank tops and t shirts. Couldn't believe it.


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## smallsteps

Hope you finally got some sleep. Good luck today - you'll be fine!!


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## TheGoodGuy

I was kidding of course. Ironed a light blue dress shirt last night and its ready to go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodGuy

ss, yes finally got some sleep, but was up earlier than I had to be this morning. The finish line is in sight, as bittersweet as it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

Nice to know you dressed for the occasion lol. It is bittersweet but its a whole new beginning for you .... be happy


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## TheGoodGuy

It's done. I'm a single man. Off to work now. I'll check in later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

TheGoodGuy said:


> It's done. I'm a single man. Off to work now. I'll check in later.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


World watch out!


----------



## Bullwinkle

GG, we're all pround of you for the strength and dignity you've shown.


----------



## Awakening2012

Bullwinkle said:


> Ummmmm..... No. But when I was in court last week, there were people in there in tank tops and t shirts. Couldn't believe it.


LOL! Probably peope wearing flip flops as well considering how public dress code decorum has deteriorated.


----------



## ReGroup

Bullwinkle said:


> GG, we're all pround of you for the strength and dignity you've shown.


Don't you wish our situation was as swift as The Good Guy's Divorce?

Congrats Good Guy.


----------



## Awakening2012

TheGoodGuy said:


> It's done. I'm a single man. Off to work now. I'll check in later.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi GG - 

Congrats on getting through this difficult and wrenching process. I know how painful it is, being freshly divorced myself. Be kind to yourself, allow yourself time to heal and -- though it sounds (and is) cliche -- know that you really will start feeling better with time.

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## Awakening2012

ReGroup said:


> Don't you wish our situation was as swift as The Good Guy's Divorce?
> 
> Congrats Good Guy.


Wow, from first TAM post in April 2013 to D in July 2013 -- that truly is lighting speed around here, so I agree you are lucky in many ways. Ripping the bandaid off quick hurts, but is FAR, FAR less painful than the long slow burn, with a side order of clinging to hopes for R. Congrats on having the self-respect to do this -- big ups!!! Cheers to your recovery and moving on to a better place and the kind of loving, loyal relationship you deserve.

Best,- A12


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Yes, I'm very lucky that I was able to rip the bandaid off quickly and be done. I didn't want a long drawn out fight in court, and in the end neither did she (although she threatened me with that during one of her drunken rages). In the end she did me a favor, stamped out any remaining embers of R by sleeping around and generally being bat**** crazy, and released me to go find someone better. Hope she continues on her own road of self discovery and therapy so that she can be a good mom to her kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

You did really well considering all you have been through. You should consider hanging around here to contribute things you have learned (I know you're still learning) to others on this forum.


----------



## Conrad

Awakening2012 said:


> Wow, from first TAM post in April 2013 to D in July 2013 -- that truly is lighting speed around here, so I agree you are lucky in many ways. Ripping the bandaid off quick hurts, but is FAR, FAR less painful than the long slow burn, with a side order of clinging to hopes for R. Congrats on having the self-respect to do this -- big ups!!! Cheers to your recovery and moving on to a better place and the kind of loving, loyal relationship you deserve.
> 
> Best,- A12


As long as you do the work so history won't repeat itself.


----------



## torn2012

Great work GG. Sounds like it's time for a virtual divorce party. I'll have a scotch and coke.


----------



## smallsteps

torn2012 said:


> Great work GG. Sounds like it's time for a virtual divorce party. I'll have a scotch and coke.


Can I come too?? Lol!!


----------



## torn2012

Well some of the others (not me of course) might organize a stripper for GG at this party. So if you're ok with that then yes. I won't be watching or anything but you're welcome to...


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I like where this is going...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

torn2012 said:


> Well some of the others (not me of course) might organize a stripper for GG at this party. So if you're ok with that then yes. I won't be watching or anything but you're welcome to...


Of course not you & I'm sure you won't watch.  lol... hmmm well I was a party years ago where they did that for a male friend of mine - its not an experience I wish to see again - I can excuse myself when she comes lmao!!


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> I like where this is going...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why am I not surprised.... lol!!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

smallsteps said:


> Why am I not surprised.... lol!!


I am but a simple man at the core..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> I am but a simple man at the core..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's nice to know.. I guess it doesn't take much to make you happy lol!


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: The emotional roller coaster*



smallsteps said:


> Of course not you & I'm sure you won't watch.  lol... hmmm well I was a party years ago where they did that for a male friend of mine - its not an experience I wish to see again - I can excuse myself when she comes lmao!!


If you're planning on stepping out for a few minutes anyway then you could do us the small favor of firing up the BBQ!

I made my first ever trip to the US a few weeks ago. Picked up an addiction to ribs and I'm having serious withdrawals. If you can fix me some high quality BBQ ribs then you'll have a friend for life


----------



## smallsteps

Sure not a problem. I make a mean potato salad too ... any other requests?? Where in the US did you visit?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## torn2012

Potato salad and ribs will be plenty  Besides, it's GG's party so maybe he should choose the menu.

My girlfriend and I spent 10 days in Hawaii. Loved it.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Ribs and potato salad are a good start. Lets add some tortilla chips and fresh guacomole that I make as an appetizer.. Lots of cold beer, and maybe a port for dessert.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Ribs and potato salad are a good start. Lets add some tortilla chips and fresh guacomole that I make as an appetizer.. Lots of cold beer, and maybe a port for dessert.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like a plan lol!! I can set up while you guys enjoy your female entertainment - hahaha!!


----------



## torn2012

Hey there GG. Just checking in on you to make sure you're holding up ok. How's that roller coaster?

I hope you haven't run off to Mexico with that stripper...


----------



## LongWalk

Hungry now. Want to eat ribs with stripper on my lap.


----------



## smallsteps

LongWalk said:


> Hungry now. Want to eat ribs with stripper on my lap.


With a cold beer in your other hand?? Lol!!!


----------



## smallsteps

torn2012 said:


> Hey there GG. Just checking in on you to make sure you're holding up ok. How's that roller coaster?
> 
> I hope you haven't run off to Mexico with that stripper...


He may have - he hasn't been seen since the party lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I'm still around.. No strippers have shown up to my house with tickets to Mexico yet, but I'm sure it will happen soon. Did you guys give them the right address?

All is well in my world. One week officially divorced. Had another good session with IC yesterday and we're working on some consistency/routine to my new life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

Not sure - that was torn's job. 

Glad to hear everything is going well for you!!


----------



## LongWalk

GG,

You have always had a good relationship with your boss and your marital problems were not secret from him. I suppose there were some days at work that you felt disconnected from your responsibilities. You're an IT manager, right?

What did you ex think about you as a guy with a solid job? Seems like she never appreciated that you were a valued person in the workplace. She seemed to have childish view of economic reality. Was she at all curious about your skills? Was she proud of you?

How is your daughter coping with her mother going into freefall?

Thank you posting so faithfully. Your thread is a classic and will help many. It has the virtue of being short.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

LongWalk said:


> GG,
> 
> You have always had a good relationship with your boss and your marital problems were not secret from him. I suppose there were some days at work that you felt disconnected from your responsibilities. You're an IT manager, right? *Yes and yes. I've had the same boss as long as I've worked there, even as we both moved up. I consider him a good friend, as weird as that might seem. Yes, there were definitely many days, especially at the beginning of this roller coaster, that I had trouble focusing on my job.*
> 
> What did you ex think about you as a guy with a solid job? Seems like she never appreciated that you were a valued person in the workplace. She seemed to have childish view of economic reality. Was she at all curious about your skills? Was she proud of you? *Believe it or not I believe she did appreciate me and was proud of me as I moved up (most times anyway), that I had a solid career, and gave her the opportunity to work when she wanted to or try different things. Even though it was nice when she worked (until the catering job of course), it was nice to have the extra income, but certainly not a necessity (with some budgeting of course). Did she have a childish view of economic reality? Absolutely. Even when we did budget, she couldn't stick to it past the first couple of weeks. And I see now that I constantly let it fly, didn't stand up to her about it, etc (yep, I was full of #3s)*
> 
> How is your daughter coping with her mother going into freefall? *She's doing pretty well.. There was a bit of drama over the weekend where she was excited to go with her mom (her weekend), then wanted to stay with me, then was crying because she doesn't want to hurt either one of our feelings, then throwing a tantrum because of all of it. I told her that it was OK to have those feelings. That sometimes she would feel sad, or mad, or confused. She said she was sorry, and I told her don't be sorry for having feelings. What she should be sorry for was throwing the tantrum though. Next time she should talk to me about how she's feeling instead of throwing a fit. *
> 
> Thank you posting so faithfully. Your thread is a classic and will help many. It has the virtue of being short. *Thanks LW. A dubious honor for sure.. This place was/is a great place to vent, get people's opinions, and read other stories about people going through similar things. I will probably post less frequently and just read from time to time. As it has been talked about in other threads, at times continuing to read about this stuff causes triggers with me, so I don't want to just continue to dwell. I'm doing well moving forward, so I don't want to set myself back too much.*


----------



## TheGoodGuy

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

I guess we'll be interested to see if she can pull herself together for your daughter's sake.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

LongWalk said:


> I guess we'll be interested to see if she can pull herself together for your daughter's sake.


I'll be observing from 50k. 

Look at me! Have I graduated from TAM University?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> I'll be observing from 50k.
> 
> Look at me! Have I graduated from TAM University?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep an eye on her but also watch your daughter. Just be there for her and keep doing what you're doing. Sounds like you have the situation under control. Consistency and stability is the best gifts you can give her now.


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: The emotional roller coaster*



LongWalk said:


> I guess we'll be interested to see if she can pull herself together for your daughter's sake.


Who gives a sh!t about her nasty a$$!

Just be sure to tell us when you cross the border with your hot stripper/porn star friend! 

And then come back and brag when you meet the real love of your life. l


----------



## Bullwinkle

GoodGuy

You have handled this all so well, you are the hero of TAM. I think we should build a shrine to you here in DC. 

And if you really do go to Mexico, no donkey shows, no matter what your friends say.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Bullwinkle said:


> GoodGuy
> 
> You have handled this all so well, you are the hero of TAM. I think we should build a shrine to you here in DC.
> 
> And if you really do go to Mexico, no donkey shows, no matter what your friends say.


Thanks for the compliment BW. Hero of TAM? Nah.. I just did what I had to do to keep my sanity and set myself up to make lemonade out of lemons, as they say. I've always been taught that I'm not a victim, and I take responsibility for the direction of my life. If my thread helps someone else along the way, so be it, I hope it does. But I certainly couldn't have done this without you guys here on TAM (BW, Smallsteps, Conrad, Gutpunch, Torn, Longwalk, Happyman and many others) and my IC coaching me along.


----------



## happyman64

TheGoodGuy said:


> Thanks for the compliment BW. Hero of TAM? Nah.. I just did what I had to do to keep my sanity and set myself up to make lemonade out of lemons, as they say. I've always been taught that I'm not a victim, and I take responsibility for the direction of my life. If my thread helps someone else along the way, so be it, I hope it does. But I certainly couldn't have done this without you guys here on TAM (BW, Smallsteps, Conrad, Gutpunch, Torn, Longwalk, Happyman and many others) and my IC coaching me along.


GoodGuy

Please send the lemonade recipe to BW. He needs it next.

Keep moving forward and be happy.

HM64


----------



## TheGoodGuy

happyman64 said:


> GoodGuy
> 
> Please send the lemonade recipe to BW. He needs it next.
> 
> Keep moving forward and be happy.
> 
> HM64


Will do HM. I don't envy BW one bit. He has some huge decisions to make as to which flavor of lemonade he wants to make.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Working out the last bit of paperwork with Ex (dealing with everything we agreed to in the settlement agreement).. Then got this text out of the blue: "I want to say I value our friendship. I am sorry I hurt you. I hope you find somebody supremely better than me. I didn't deserve you" I feel like there is an honest apology in there, but the I didn't deserve you part sounds to me like a cop out to cover for her actions.. I won't dwell on it, but any thoughts?


----------



## smallsteps

TheGoodGuy said:


> Working out the last bit of paperwork with Ex (dealing with everything we agreed to in the settlement agreement).. Then got this text out of the blue: "I want to say I value our friendship. I am sorry I hurt you. I hope you find somebody supremely better than me. I didn't deserve you" I feel like there is an honest apology in there, but the I didn't deserve you part sounds to me like a cop out to cover for her actions.. I won't dwell on it, but any thoughts?



Be careful..........


----------



## smallsteps

Sorry that was a knee jerk answer. You know like the test " I'll say a word and you tell me the first thing that pops into your head" type of thing. 

My stbxh said something similar when he left. He told me I would find someone who would treat me better than he ever did. I think they say things like this to relieve their guilt. They make it sound like they're doing us a favor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angstire

TheGoodGuy said:


> Working out the last bit of paperwork with Ex (dealing with everything we agreed to in the settlement agreement).. Then got this text out of the blue: "I want to say I value our friendship. I am sorry I hurt you. I hope you find somebody supremely better than me. I didn't deserve you" I feel like there is an honest apology in there, but the I didn't deserve you part sounds to me like a cop out to cover for her actions.. I won't dwell on it, but any thoughts?


Sounds like she's trying to make herself feel better by saying she's sorry and still wants to be friends and you'll find someone better.

Real apologies come in person or in a letter with detail about why they're apologetic. That's not possible via text.


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## TheGoodGuy

She's already said all this in person as well. Well all but the last bit about not deserving me. I believe she is sorry, but the rest is just to make herself feel better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angstire

TheGoodGuy said:


> She's already said all this in person as well. Well all but the last bit about not deserving me. I believe she is sorry, but the rest is just to make herself feel better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Got it. She's maybe reiterating it, but once it's said, to say it again is trying to prove to you and herself that's she's a good person. You don't need to validate it. If you want to say you appreciate or thanks, do it. But don't answer her covert plea for validation. 

Answer if you truly want to acknowledge, otherwise, silence.


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## TheGoodGuy

I did. I sent back thank you.


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## LongWalk

She is seeking closure while entertaining the faintest hope of R
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReGroup

"Thank you, you set me free. It was truly a blessing in disguise."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## somethingnewmaybe

^lol but srsly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps

LongWalk said:


> She is seeking closure while entertaining the faintest hope of R
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thats where I was going when I said be careful LW said it better. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VFW

I see no remorse in her comments, she is definitely fishing for a reciprocal complement. I find no response better, but a simple thanks is fine as well. Hold your course, steady as she goes.


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## warlock07

Her apology was for herself though. Don't read too much into it


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## TheGoodGuy

I'm ending this thread and will start a new one in Life After Divorce. Hope everyone here is on the road to recovery. End Of Message


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## LongWalk

Put up the link here so we know when and where.


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## TheGoodGuy

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/111529-chronicles-good-guy.html#post3802754
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

TheGoodGuy said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/111529-chronicles-good-guy.html#post3802754
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do like the confidence associated with being "The" Good Guy.


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