# Taking care of the harpies



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Recently the missus and I had a talk about the 'harpies' that disrespect our marriage by hitting on me, even to my wife's face.

Instead of her acting out and embarrassing us, we've decided it's my job to deal with them. Now, I don't like embarrassing us either so I'm not going to jump over one silly fun-flirt or joke made by one of our female friends.

Wifey doesn't like my "play dumb" strategy because it doesn't seem to really work (which in truth it does, but it just time for them to get the eventual hint). She also doesn't like it when I fun-flirt back which is a challenge to stop (and in truth it confuses the ladies and doesn't help give them the 'hint'). To compromise, we've decided to use other 'strategies'...

1) I will no longer resist physically claiming her by physical gestures, i.e. show that I'm taken by her
2) She will no longer embarrass us by jumping out at whoever flirts or fun-flirts with me
3) She will make an effort to open her eyes and learn to trust that she's the only one for me, and to trust me as her husband
4) I will answer compliments from females with compliments for my wife to show my affection and admiration of her
5) She will no longer jump at me fun-flirting back as long as the attention is switched back to her as soon as possible, and that I use #4 to express my loyalty to my wife without hurting feelings

What you guys think?
It's funny how what we can accomplish when we're not fighting each other.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I think the challenge of letting go of this 'fun-flirt' business is related to low self esteem and maturity.

I'm more for a direct approach in handling situations. It doesn't mean you need to be ungracious. Really though, being so taken with your wife's presence that you wouldn't even notice others speaks volumes to your wife. (And to other women). To me at least, there's nothing more appealing than knowing your husband is listening to you and is captivated by you.

To deflect the compliments you're receiving by diverting them back to your wife, could actually still be a flirtation technique in a way, whether that's your intention or not. Sure it might signal to many that your interest is in her but to others it might be a challenge to overcome as they may want that attention from you for themselves. I'd also question why that's happening in the first place. 

This all stems back to your behavior.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well I'm a naturally fun-loving social personality, fun-flirts are hardwired to be at the same level as standard jokes. That's a problem not easily solved, as I've also grown up where fun-flirts are the norm. As such so far this is the best compromise we have mustered.

As for other's jealousy, well, can't really do much with that. I'm sure wifey would love it if I drill it into them but at the same time it can prove embarrassing and the other party can defend themselves by saying "mucking around" or "joking around" which they have done when wifey dropped the ball in the past.

It's best to stay away from dramas as best we can, and there will always be men and women hitting on us.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> the other party can defend themselves by saying "mucking around" or "joking around" which they have done when wifey dropped the ball in the past.


My response to this has been...


You don't joke around in such a manner to those already taken.

Well how about you go muck around with someone who isn't offended by said jokes?

You may have been "just joking" but your joke was rather offensive to me so please find another way to joke around when around my husband and I. 

I'm rather territorial as is my husband.. so it would be in your best interest to stick to non suggestive jokes.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I've said other things but those are a few examples when in situations like that.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm a direct person, never been afraid of a confrontation with civility.

I have said to people flirting with me "I'm sorry but I'm married and your flirting is unwanted attention and I would appreciate you not doing that" (I do it whether husband is there or not, I've even told customers where I work the same thing in front of the boss)


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Sorry, You asked what I think so I will tell you.

There should not be a compromise here. This behavior is disrespectful in my opinion and childish. Committed people should not be flirting and there should not be compromises around disrespectful behavior


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Dude,

Once again, you and the misses are "missin" the mark by trying to substitute legalisms for commitment.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

could someone explain the difference between 'fun-flirting' and 'flirting' to this clearly simple English chick???


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> could someone explain the difference between 'fun-flirting' and 'flirting' to this clearly simple English chick???


In my experience, there is NO difference. Flirting is flirting. Period. I tried the non-direct approach, as you, RandomDude, are suggesting... guess what? It kept them making advances and pissed hubby off even more. I actually had to say "Look, I'm happily married, leave me alone." for them to get the message.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

yeah, that's kind of what I thought. Your wife's 'friends' flirting with you is not fun, it's saying 'I'm up for it if you are' and she damn well knows it

don't make the excuse that you're just a fun loving guy - I'm a fun-loving, sociable girl but nipped that sh*t in the bud straight away when I was married

now I'm single though - flirt away! As long as you're single too...!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks for the balanced views everyone, I'm starting to understand how it may not actually work, but this is a trial run. If the issue persists or gets any worse we'll have to rethink our strategy, guess we'll give it a few weeks. My wife and I are in this together now.

Come to think of it, it would be good to discuss flirting itself on this thread: 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/20091-flirting-addiction.html

Already many opinions on it, would like some more


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Time for some new friends, no way in hell I would put up with that lack of respect from my "friends."


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## CaitlynCat (Jun 1, 2012)

I like the seemingly playful way you guys have decided upon to tackle this issue! Great concept! My husband has always been quite jealous and insecure and I on the other hand am an open book with no boundries...so I can realte to the struggle in which you speak. I have fun flirting and of course never intend to act upon those things but it's all in good humor really.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

CaitlynCat said:


> I like the seemingly playful way you guys have decided upon to tackle this issue! Great concept! My husband has always been quite jealous and insecure and I on the other hand am an open book with no boundries...so I can realte to the struggle in which you speak. I have fun flirting and of course never intend to act upon those things but it's all in good humor really.


How can you call something that hurts your husband good humor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CaitlynCat (Jun 1, 2012)

I guess I should have added that in my instance my husband is quite ok with it actually. He is insecure and jealous in many ways but he knows how I am and accepted that before our relationship ever became a serious thing. So in our marriage this specific topic is not an issue. I apologize for not clarifiying that.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

CaitlynCat said:


> I guess I should have added that in my instance my husband is quite ok with it actually. He is insecure and jealous in many ways but he knows how I am and accepted that before our relationship ever became a serious thing. So in our marriage this specific topic is not an issue. I apologize for not clarifiying that.


Thanks for clarifying - didn't mean to jump on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Pandakiss said:


> I think "fun flirting" is just being nice. Telling a lady I like her dress or shoes. Giving a guy dressed in a nice suit a nod like "you look nice".
> 
> I flirt with guys all the time, but not to get numbers or just to have all eyes on me. I said it before, and I'll say it again..if you work at Starbucks you will get flirted with.
> 
> ...


Glad that works for you two and even more glad that I am not married to you. I don't believe this would be even close to acceptable to most married couples. But your marriage is you own. If all is fine great... but then why are you here?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

CaitlynCat said:


> I like the seemingly playful way you guys have decided upon to tackle this issue! Great concept! *My husband has always been quite jealous and insecure and I on the other hand am an open book with no boundries*...so I can realte to the struggle in which you speak. I have fun flirting and of course never intend to act upon those things but it's all in good humor really.


Having no boundaries is dubious of course. A jealous response would be the normal healthy reaction to a spouse with no boundaries. 

You might want to do His Needs Her Needs and define some boundaries. 

Whether you intend to act on your flirting or not still tells everyone around you that you just might be which is very disrespectful to your partner. It sends the vibe to others that you are available and are willing to humliate your partner. That your partner is less of a man than who you are flirting with and has low value. This is harsh considering you were not specific with what exactly you are doing but your comment about not acting on it says much. So it must be about infidelity. Yes?

You say he is ok with it, yet you say he is jealous and insecure. So he is not ok with it. Not really. He may be passive and not assertive about it but he is not ok with you having no boundaries. He may not even understand what is wrong here.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

KanDo said:


> Glad that works for you two and even more glad that I am not married to you. I don't believe this would be even close to acceptable to most married couples. But your marriage is you own. If all is fine great... but then why are you here?


Yeah that would not be acceptable to me either.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Random's wife has an issue with it. It's an issue for their marriage. So if he sees why this is unacceptable to her/them as a couple, then he needs to alter his behavior. Even if he redirects these 'compliments' from other women to his wife, a glint in his eye and body language can still be flirtatious. 

I don't buy "It's part of my personality..." Being sociable and putting people at ease in your company, does not need to equate to flirtation. So why the need for it when you have a wife who desires you by your side? Why the need for that type of attention? That type of attention brings you validation of some kind? Why the need for that validation? Or is it the drama that you crave?


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Pandakiss: No one gives a darn if you flirt and your husband is great with that. Just as I said: I'm glad that works for you two. That's your business. But you posted in a thread asking for opinions about a compromise about flirting that is an issue for one of the parties in the relationship. Your post advocated a policy on flirting that (as I opined) would not be acceptable to the overwhelming majority of married couples.

The fact that you lied about your transportation doesn't seem relevant to me.

Whatever


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

CaitlynCat said:


> I guess I should have added that in my instance my husband is quite ok with it actually. He is insecure and jealous in many ways but he knows how I am and accepted that before our relationship ever became a serious thing. So in our marriage this specific topic is not an issue. I apologize for not clarifiying that.


If there’s any type of logic in there I can’t see it.



Your H is jealous and insecure. You flirt.

You flirt. Your H is jealous and insecure.



Chicken or egg? Which one came first? Doesn’t matter. You flirt, your H is jealous and insecure. Your H is jealous and insecure. You flirt.

Undoubtedly cause and effect. No matter how much in denial you are about it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Pandakiss, one thing that stuck out in your first post, other than the flirtatious manner you spoke to that boy, is the reference to "Leos are natural flirts"... flirting has nothing to do with zodiac signs. While I MAY be willing to concede that we Leos are naturally FRIENDLY and SOCIABLE, we aren't natural flirts. Neither my sister (also a Leo) nor I come by that trait naturally. I'm actually quite shy when it comes to men. It takes a LOT to get me to open up if I am speaking face to face, or if I KNOW I am speaking to a man online.

Now, as for the subject at hand: flirting. While I can understand some wanting to diffuse a situation as painlessly as possible, who are they really making it painless for? The friend/acquaintance/"nobody" or the spouse or themselves? I wouldn't be embarrassed if my husband came up and put his arm possessively around me if some guy was flirting. And he wouldn't be embarrassed if I did the same to him if some woman was hitting on him. And I wouldn't be offended if he put a guy in his place for it either, and vice versa. But then, I would likely just say "not interested. I'm happily married, find someone who will appreciate your advances, because that isn't me." The point is, if your spouse isn't happy/comfortable with a behavior, then don't do it, don't allow it. I really don't understand what is so hard about that. You can be sociable without flirting. :scratchhead:


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Everytime I see the title of this thread I swear it says, Taking care of the HERPES..............:rofl:


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Pandakiss, one thing that stuck out in your first post, other than the flirtatious manner you spoke to that boy, is the reference to "Leos are natural flirts"... flirting has nothing to do with zodiac signs. While I MAY be willing to concede that we Leos are naturally FRIENDLY and SOCIABLE, we aren't natural flirts. Neither my sister (also a Leo) nor I come by that trait naturally. I'm actually quite shy when it comes to men. It takes a LOT to get me to open up if I am speaking face to face, or if I KNOW I am speaking to a man online.
> 
> Now, as for the subject at hand: flirting. While I can understand some wanting to diffuse a situation as painlessly as possible, who are they really making it painless for? The friend/acquaintance/"nobody" or the spouse or themselves? I wouldn't be embarrassed if my husband came up and put his arm possessively around me if some guy was flirting. And he wouldn't be embarrassed if I did the same to him if some woman was hitting on him. And I wouldn't be offended if he put a guy in his place for it either, and vice versa. But then, I would likely just say "not interested. I'm happily married, find someone who will appreciate your advances, because that isn't me." The point is, if your spouse isn't happy/comfortable with a behavior, then don't do it, don't allow it. I really don't understand what is so hard about that. You can be sociable without flirting. :scratchhead:


:iagree: Am a leo here myself... and I don't flirt around when taken. I flirt constantly with my spouse but with others I don't. I am maybe not as sociable as most leos and i do tend to be territorial when it comes to my spouse and kids. I guess i may come off as rude to some others in person, especially since I'm lost in my own lil world most the time so i tend not to pay attention to what others are doing around me. So if they have hit on me... i sure as hell never noticed.. lol. I do notice when others approach my spouse or kids though.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> Everytime I see the title of this thread I swear it says, Taking care of the HERPES..............:rofl:


:lol: Your a nut!  In a good way.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Gaia said:


> :iagree: Am a leo here myself... and I don't flirt around when taken. I flirt constantly with my spouse but with others I don't. I am maybe not as sociable as most leos and i do tend to be territorial when it comes to my spouse and kids. I guess i may come off as rude to some others in person, especially since *I'm lost in my own lil world most the time so i tend not to pay attention to what others are doing around me. So if they have hit on me... i sure as hell never noticed.. lol. I do notice when others approach my spouse or kids though.*


THIS! OMG! I Sooo could have written this! my hubby has gotten frustrated in the past because I didn't pay attention to the fact that some KID was flirting. I thought he was just being friendly and I didn't stick the "I'm married, leave me alone" in there. But then, he is oblivious as well. We focus on each other and our kids. But we notice when someone is approaching the other. I think people put too much stock int he whole zodiac nonsense, tbh. But that's JMHO.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I had one.. so called friend... overstep her boundaries when hubby and i were having some issues during the beginning of our relationship. We were in two diff states at the time and i was preggy with our daughter.. well i was talking to him on the phone, got pissed and told him i didn't want to talk with him. This woman... had the NERVE to say... well gimme the phone.. ill talk with him if you dont want to... My response... "***** don't be treading in the lions den unless you want me to rip your effing face off." Yes I know.. I'm a Bytch lol.. and told her straight out that she and i weren't friends anymore after that. Did I over react? Probably... but i dont give a damn.. he's mine and I'll be damned if i let someone squeeze in there.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

KanDo said:


> Pandakiss: No one gives a darn if you flirt and your husband is great with that. Just as I said: I'm glad that works for you two. That's your business. But you posted in a thread asking for opinions about a compromise about flirting that is an issue for one of the parties in the relationship. Your post advocated a policy on flirting that (as I opined) would not be acceptable to the overwhelming majority of married couples.
> 
> The fact that you lied about your transportation doesn't seem relevant to me.
> 
> Whatever


Wow!!!!
I did not see anywhere a statement of...
"let's have sex tonight"
"can I get your number"
"let's do something freaky"
In other words you all seem to believe a joke or kindness, or any kind of banter is flirting.... 
Well both me and my wife are flirts, and we have hot sex... Why? Because I don't make her dress like a nun, tell who she can speak to and what she can say, nor does she do that to me... 
And now with countless jobs I worked in the past, you clarify to me the type of jerks I have to deal with, so because you snatch something out my hand and grunt, I should view you as honorable and say "their spouse must be so lucky"...
By everyone's logic, omg everybody flirts with me, and it has nothing to do with trying to get something out of me, like something for free, or quality service....
Now I shudder, that elderly woman who said to me while I was cleaning windows "those windows are sparkling, can you come to my house when you finish?" Oh my, she must wanted to f**k me.... Or when I make that drink for the lovely lesbian couple "when you make my drink, you make my day" I can think that is also coming on to me....
Then uh....
I say every guy better be nervous then, because every one of your wives are hot flirting, or just the rudest person on the face of this earth....
No wonder people continue having problems on this forum, ya think too much in black and white, you leave no room for gray....

And I say, if you think my level of kindness is flirtatious behavior then I say I don't need you, I'm not a cheater I have no need for it.... Because I'm never asking for numbers, emails or any of that crap, I make nice, you laugh giggle or blush and move along, it's all to get you out of my face....

And also Kando, maybe you should evaluate why you're on TAM, adjust your attitude and aim


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

It is a shades of gray world. We put black and white boundaries to deal with the entropy and chaos that would result by having no clear boundaries. 

The people that come here with the major issues typically have at least boundary problems.

We can say that they have compromised integrity.

I am not judging what Kando said one way or the other. Just pointing out that the way back to wholeness is to set some of these black and white boundaries.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Why should your wife trust you, if you don't even respect her enough to stop flirting with other women? :scratchhead:

My husband is married, but not dead. I'm sure he notices attractive women. He wouldn't dream of flirting right in front of me. When men flirt with me, I just start talking about my husband. :rofl: That works well.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> When men flirt with me, I just start talking about my husband.


That's pretty much the plan...

This debate is now very balanced in views... looks like there are two VERY different opinions here


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Pandakiss said:


> thanks guys...
> 
> i was talking to dolly, who asked what is "fun flirting" vs flirting. fun flirting, being nice, bad flirting, being asked for sex, a phone number, and just not taking the hint to go away.
> 
> ...


For the record I don't think your a ****, *****, or a bad person. I think you did do a great job explaining the difference. Some of us just aren't as laid back or easy going as you are but that doesn't mean your being shamed for it. If you get that impression from anyone here... especially from me.. i want to apologize because i had not meant to come across that way. I was merely pointing out how odd i am compared to other leos who i have known to be laid back and easy going as well.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

WadeWilson said:


> Wow!!!!
> 
> In other words you all seem to believe a joke or kindness, or any kind of banter is flirting....


This is not so. There are jokes and then there are things such as hidden sexual remarks, flirtatious actions such as winking and getting closer then one should, and pressing ones body against said taken person that is considered flirting. Those subtle but not so subtle move they make.. that is what i am referring to vs.... oh nice shoes man.... or... something along those lines.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Gaia said:


> This is not so. There are jokes and then there are things such as hidden sexual remarks, flirtatious actions such as winking and getting closer then one should, and pressing ones body against said taken person that is considered flirting. Those subtle but not so subtle move they make.. that is what i am referring to vs.... oh nice shoes man.... or... something along those lines.


That's what i was thinking. If there is sexual innuendo, then of course it is unacceptable. As I stated before...you can be friendly/sociable without flirting. Really, it's all about boundaries. And, if you have that "friendly flirting" mentality, don't get pissy if the spouse of the person to whom you are speaking gets upset or angry. It just means THEIR boundaries are not the same as yours. There is nothing wrong with that.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Pandakiss said:


> bad flirting, being asked for sex, a phone number,


this isnt flirting, this is propositioning.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Pandakiss....I hope you stick around kid, because I always enjoy reading your posts and I wouldn't think such a thing about you.

I spoke to my H about this thread, interested in getting his thoughts. My H says I'm a flirt but he was talking about the flirtatious way I am with _him_. 

Recently we were out getting street food. We went to different carts and when I met up with him again, food in hand, he said jovially, "I saw how you had those guys all laughing and smiling at you.." I hadn't been flirtatious and told him what had had happened (I'd had a goofy moment when ordering and was making light of it). He said he was watching me and thought to himself "My wife is not only beautiful, she's charming as well." He said this with positive feeling. And yes, my head inflated upon hearing this.

I don't equate being friendly/nice/jovial to being flirtatious. This may be a grey area and it's up to the couple what is and isn't acceptable. I know what is acceptable to my husband. I know there's a difference when being flirtatious. This is why I don't buy into "It's part of my personality.." because I've said those words myself in the early years of our relationship. That energy can be channeled differently and reserved just for our spouse if so desired.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

Gaia said:


> This is not so. There are jokes and then there are things such as hidden sexual remarks, flirtatious actions such as winking and getting closer then one should, and pressing ones body against said taken person that is considered flirting. Those subtle but not so subtle move they make.. that is what i am referring to vs.... oh nice shoes man.... or... something along those lines.


When did Panda say anything about touching....
Thats exactly what in talking about...
The statement was based on one person saying in a JOKING manner take care of some type of physical labor that I don't want to do, and that's flirting... 
I NEVER SAID inviting one for sexual or romantic play was okay...
And I suppose if you feel what I'm referring to as being flirtatious, then, yes some 80yo woman inviting me to clean her home would be boundary crossing for me....
So when you read what Panda said, you put those ideas in your own head, so am I safe to assume when you thank the guy at Starbucks for making your coffee, are you flirting with him, when you ask him for sugar and milk are you leading on to crossing boundaries?

It's called context....


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

WadeWilson said:


> When did Panda say anything about touching....
> Thats exactly what in talking about...
> The statement was based on one person saying in a JOKING manner take care of some type of physical labor that I don't want to do, and that's flirting...
> I NEVER SAID inviting one for sexual or romantic play was okay...
> ...


I never stated panda said anything about touching. I merely posted my view on what i considered flirtatious behavior. In no way did that point out to this.... "*when you thank the guy at Starbucks for making your coffee, are you flirting with him*" I said there is a difference between what i considered friendly gestures and flirtatious behavior. It really appears as if your jumping to conclusions here as you have just accused others of doing. Not once did i take a shot at anything panda said. I made a statement on how i act and perceive things and even went so far as to acknowledge that not everyone views things the same as i do. By the way.. i didn't put any ideas in my head based off of panda's post.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

Gaia said:


> I never stated panda said anything about touching. I merely posted my view on what i considered flirtatious behavior. In no way did that point out to this.... "*when you thank the guy at Starbucks for making your coffee, are you flirting with him*" I said there is a difference between what i considered friendly gestures and flirtatious behavior. It really appears as if your jumping to conclusions here as you have just accused others of doing. Not once did i take a shot at anything panda said. I made a statement on how i act and perceive things and even went so far as to acknowledge that not everyone views things the same as i do. By the way.. i didn't put any ideas in my head based off of panda's post.


It was the quotation, I am not certain if you were responding to just that selection, or the entirety of what I was saying to kando, or even the thread, but the quotation looked more of a direct negative thought....


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Oh no.. i was trying to say that not all of us see things in that manner.. lol. I'm sorry if it came across as something other then that.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

And I do agree with you Gaia, touching being to close, winking is creating direct invites, but I don't think you should be a cold robot in public....

Enthropy, I understand that some people have been so jaded that they are healing, but, attacking someone else because they can't deal with what some other person has done to them, they have to realize others may not take kindly to their statements


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

At the risk of further thread jacking, I apolopgize if it appeared I attacked anyone. The fact that I would not want to be married to someone who self identifies as a flirt is merely my choice. You are entitled to your own opinion. But there appears to be a huge difference in the understanding of the definition of flirting:
From Wikipedia....


"Flirting (or coquetry) is a playful activity involving verbal communication as well as body language by one person to another, indicating an interest in a deeper relationship with the other person. Usually, flirting is therefore, either seriously or jokingly, intended to be interpreted as a romantic or sexual overture. A female flirt, especially a young one, is sometimes called a coquette; a male one, a womanizer or player.

Flirting usually involves speaking and behaving in a way that suggests a mildly greater intimacy than the actual relationship between the parties would justify, though within the rules of social etiquette, which generally disapproves of a direct expression of sexual interest. "

Being nice or thanking someone is *not* flirting, by this definition. Talking to someone and suggesting they come home with you to unpack your groceries is flirting in my mind. Asking someone for their number or to have sex is soliciting, not flirting. 

As I said in my first and second posts, what two people do in the context of their marriage (where they both agree) is their business. I was not taking aim at anyone. It is still my opinion that the majority of committed couples in Western Society would not look kindly at flirtatious activity. And where one of the partners is unhappy with this behaviour, a compromise , in my opinion, is not appropriate. 

Feel free to ignore my posts.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Agreed. Flirting is not just friendly banter. One can be a very friendly and engaging person without flirting.


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## Latigo (Apr 27, 2011)

The problem, in my experience, is the majority of men will interpret a woman's "being nice" or "charming" as a come on. I can't count the times when my wife was polite to someone at the grocery or at the movies and guys will think b/c she was being nice she must have "wanted" him! People don't always assume I'm with her if I am standing a few feet away. Those are the times I come up behind her and grab her a$$ and put my arms around her or plant a big one on her, look the guy trying to talk to her straight in the eyes and ask her "Who's your friend?" I don't have a problem with my wife being polite to someone, just not "overly nice". Body language is important as has been stated. I would blow a gasket if I ever saw her talking to a guy and twirling her hair for example. This is another "to each their own" subject. As for me, I am in the camp for whom it is a black and white issue!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Don’t know about blowing a gasket, I think that rarely the right thing to do.

A lot of body language is unconscious behaviour. For example twirling the hair with the fingers can be done unconsciously in the first second or two. After that the person catches what they are doing and if they want to, stop that particular behaviour. It’s the same with moving their hair back to reveal the neck, showing their wrists, pointing their feet at you when standing up, crossing their legs and pointing them at you when sitting down etc.

All of these things can happen very naturally in the first few seconds when a woman sees a man she’s attracted to. After the first few seconds she becomes conscious of her behaviour and either continues with it or stops it.

It can be very disconcerting if you observe your wife go through this type of behaviour. But at the end of the day we’re all human and as such we’re bound to be attracted to more than one person. And sometimes that attraction can be deep and strong. Like most things it’s what we do with it that counts.

But if your wife is attracted to another and you blow your gasket, you’re likely to push her behaviour underground. It’s far better to remain cool, calm and collected and just observe her behaviour over time. That way you can catch things relatively early if she’s attracted enough to initiate an affair.


But a married person who deliberately and consciously flirts with anyone but their spouse is I think just asking for trouble in some form or another.


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## Crazy8 (Jun 1, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> To deflect the compliments you're receiving by diverting them back to your wife, could actually still be a flirtation technique in a way, whether that's your intention or not. Sure it might signal to many that your interest is in her but to others it might be a challenge to overcome as they may want that attention from you for themselves. I'd also question why that's happening in the first place.
> 
> This all stems back to your behavior.


Maybe he's David Beckham, but better? Sometimes, there is no why to women flirting.

And whatever happened to "no means no"? If he's not interested and deflects the conversation back to his wife, then that's obviously letting people know that he has a wife, and he should be off-limits, right?

Sure, women could look at it as a challenge. But by straight telling them "Eww, get away from me! I'm going to file a restraining order!" could also be looked at as a challenge as well, right? 

So, if deflection doesn't work, I think the guy should stick by his wife, and any woman who flirts with him right in front of his wife should be called on it right away in front of his wife and ridiculed if need be. 

What I mean is something is said by a woman. Then all you have to do is ask "what was that?" then of course, she'll be like "what?", and then fill in the blank with the flirtatious comment or action. I can almost guarantee you that no woman would repeat anything similar for fear that they were going to get called on it. And it kind of ends the game right away. It puts a wet blanket on any spark. 

What kind of woman flirts with a guy in front of his wife? A woman who needs to be slapped! 

Now, I know, that's not politically correct. But it doesn't mean it's not true. Not that I've ever slapped a woman, but it doesn't mean that women I've been with haven't needed it.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

And didn't David Beckham have affairs? So it comes down to how Random handles this unwanted attention. 

I wouldn't consider "Eww, get away from me!" as being direct. I'd think ridiculing would be uncalled for because if there's alcohol involved, this could kick start more drama. 

As for what kind of woman flirts with a guy in front of his wife? ...well, RandomDude himself has said he finds it hard to give up "fun-flirting". He's posted about this type of thing before. So I'd redirect the question back towards Random's behavior. 

Over and out.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Crazy8 said:


> What I mean is something is said by a woman. Then all you have to do is ask "what was that?" then of course, she'll be like "what?", and then fill in the blank with the flirtatious comment or action. I can almost guarantee you that no woman would repeat anything similar for fear that they were going to get called on it. And it kind of ends the game right away. It puts a wet blanket on any spark.


I had a sip of caffeine and get what you're saying.

I kind of like this suggestion, the 'being called on' but again, it will come down to tone, body language etc as to whether this is delivered in the way you have offered. Said with a smile, playful tone, glint in his eye and all of that, and it becomes something else.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Some old habits are more difficult then others to overcome, the missus mentioned some time ago the way I tend to naturally get physically close to women without noticing, and this isn't to do with my fun-flirting. Like the way I shield our mates from the rain with my jacket pulling it up and over so they snuggle up instead of simply letting them futilely squeeze into our little umbrella (or lending the jacket), or lighting up their cigs with my own, etc etc. She doesn't like that. The fun-flirts and playfulness come by instinct as well.

But I never let it get too far, the most I fun-flirt back is a tease or a joke or just muck around having fun like 'borrowing' an item and see what they do to get it back. I play the same jokes and teases with male mates as well except the straight ones because they eventually get uncomfortable, yet I'm 100% straight, well, 95%, because I'm not homophobic. I've stopped all of that thus far.

My wife of course gets most of the attention, but when we go out or when we have guests I feel the need to entertain. To resist letting out a fun-flirt is the same as attempting to resist joking - it's difficult, hence deflection is a good compromise thus far, as I no longer have to resist, only to channel it to my wife and my wife alone.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't mind thread-hijacks as long as it is on-topic, in fact, I encourage it, heh... this helps me gain an insight by balancing various opinions.

The 3 feet rule won't really work with us and it's normal to hug our friends. Our social climate is more casual, relaxed, and laid back too. Hence to find a balance between social expectations and marital expectations can be rather challenging too.

The thing is though, I do trust my gut feelings, always. All through my life I've relied on it even back in my teens where it was the only thing that kept me alive on the street. The same gut feelings also subconciously records all the little signs that allows me to identify my options in the past; who is interested and who is not.

There are times when I get the vibe from other women but I shut them down. But amongst friends, when I fun-flirt with them I do not get that vibe, it's all fun and games. For my wife though, guess that's just not enough.

It might take some time and a few test occasions to see if this little plan of ours works.


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## Crazy8 (Jun 1, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> I had a sip of caffeine and get what you're saying.
> 
> I kind of like this suggestion, the 'being called on' but again, it will come down to tone, body language etc as to whether this is delivered in the way you have offered. Said with a smile, playful tone, glint in his eye and all of that, and it becomes something else.


You're right. It comes down to "want to". Does the OP want these women to stop hitting on him? Or maybe he likes the attention? 

You can't be conflicted. You either want a lot of women or you don't. You got married, so hopefully he doesn't.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The thing is - I don't see them as hitting on me. Sometimes it happens yes especially when I'm alone and it's real flirting, not fun-flirting so I shut them down, beginning with playing dumb depending on how obvious they make it but if they don't get the message I can and have been assertive.

But amongst good friends with fun and games -> it's much different. Even being assertive in this case can damage friendships and embarrass someone for simply having fun and making jokes. Hence we came up with this compromise - no one gets embarrassed, and we both get what we both want.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> The thing is - I don't see them as hitting on me. Sometimes it happens yes especially when I'm alone and it's real flirting, not fun-flirting so I shut them down, beginning with playing dumb depending on how obvious they make it but if they don't get the message I can and have been assertive.
> 
> But amongst good friends with fun and games -> it's much different. Even being assertive in this case can damage friendships and embarrass someone for simply having fun and making jokes. Hence we came up with this compromise - no one gets embarrassed, and we both get what we both want.


Quit making excuses.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

In our world, no one flirts or tries to come on to me when I'm with my husband. Same goes for him. In my flirtier days, I never flirted with a man who was obviously taken (as in wife/gf RIGHT there). That's just rude, Dude....


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> The thing is - I don't see them as hitting on me. Sometimes it happens yes especially when I'm alone and it's real flirting, not fun-flirting so I shut them down, beginning with playing dumb depending on how obvious they make it but if they don't get the message I can and have been assertive.
> 
> But amongst good friends with fun and games -> it's much different. Even being assertive in this case can damage friendships and embarrass someone for simply having fun and making jokes. Hence we came up with this compromise - no one gets embarrassed, and we both get what we both want.


*I'll say it again, time to find new friends.*
Seriously, what is more important, your wife or these so called friends who keep doing their best to cause conflict in your marriage.
This is not simply having fun, this is pathological. 
They know what they are doing & they keep doing it because you're a willing participant.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Having fun at the expense of your wife isn't really all that loving. It's a little manipulative. If your wife feels threatened by your behavior, it's up to you to make her feel un-threatened. I'm not saying you should obey every little thing, but if you know it's a problem, why engage it? Have you read the sticky about the truck driver and how close he drives to the edge of the cliff? It's worth considering. I think you like making her feel a little uneasy because it means she will invest more into securing you.

However, you did mention that you and your wife are working together and not against each other and that part seems positive and good.


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## EngagedGraduate (May 17, 2012)

IMO your wife, and other people who are siding with her are being jealous and attention-seeking. I don't know what kind of flirting you people are doing, but joking and paying compliments are part of friendship. Not everything said is laden with intentions, devious or wholesome. 
complimenting and joking =\= flirting
flirting =\= boning or even real attraction

Now, if you flirt with your pants off, that could become an issue!

I think some members here would mistake my friend group as polyamorous!


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

EngagedGraduate said:


> IMO your wife, and other people who are siding with her are being jealous and attention-seeking. I don't know what kind of flirting you people are doing, but joking and paying compliments are part of friendship. Not everything said is laden with intentions, devious or wholesome.
> complimenting and joking =\= flirting
> flirting =\= boning or even real attraction
> 
> ...


Maybe read his other threads and history and see if you feel the same in this situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

EngagedGraduate said:


> IMO your wife, and *other people who are siding with her are being jealous and attention-seeking.* I don't know what kind of flirting you people are doing, but joking and paying compliments are part of friendship. Not everything said is laden with intentions, devious or wholesome.
> complimenting and joking =\= flirting
> flirting =\= boning or even real attraction
> 
> ...


Jealous of, what exactly? And seeking attention in what way? As golfergirl said, read his other threads and then get back to us. This particular poster has a habit of making his wife feel bad about herself, like she's not good enough for him. And she is supposed to be ok with that? Not a chance.


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## EngagedGraduate (May 17, 2012)

I'll take your word at it, golphergirl and Maricha75. Obviously the cardinal rule is "don't be mean" If OP can't do that then it will be problem. I was initially responding to the thing OP said about complimenting his wife if someone compliments him, or quickly moving the attention to his wife. That alone sounds maybe not healthy. But if there is a history of mean-spirited behavior then maybe not.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

EngagedGraduate said:


> I'll take your word at it, golphergirl and Maricha75. Obviously the cardinal rule is "don't be mean" If OP can't do that then it will be problem. I was initially responding to the thing OP said about complimenting his wife if someone compliments him, or quickly moving the attention to his wife. That alone sounds maybe not healthy. But if there is a history of mean-spirited behavior then maybe not.


There is. Complaining she is a 'disappointment' to his people because she isn't his race, wanting her to change her hair color to spice things up, and a host of other things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

That was in the past and the hair dying is just a simple suggestion but I'm starting to understand that it sure ain't helping the healing process. I'll stop this

I can see now that while she's still in healing it's still going to take time before she can accept the fun-flirts like she did in the past or any suggestions in regards to her physical features.

Engaged you are correct that my wife is being jealous and attention-seeking. But she has good reason to I guess, which other posters have pointed out... hopefully one day we can heal and move past this and get back to where we used to be without all the hurts and pains.

After finally making a decision to stop hurting my wife and to be a team once again it seems we still have a lot of issues based on the past to deal with. She's been holding alot in, and I really don't know how she does it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

This is what you never seem to get.

There were no good old days.

Both of you were just holding back trying to please the other without being real.

If you're going to have something that lasts, you need to build "new", not justify some current situation based on some bad behavior in the past that was somehow "acceptable" for a few minutes or weeks.

People keep telling you and telling you, but it seems impossible for you to pull your head out.

Just treat her with kindness and respect - and insist she do the same.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

He is a drama queen after all. It's all to be expected. He can't live without the stimulation of the drama he creates in his world. And when he's stimulated he'll bring himself back down again on alcohol. He’s using everybody here as part of the dramas he stages and probably having a right good laugh about it all. Very much like a troll.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

AFEH said:


> He is a drama queen after all. It's all to be expected. He can't live without the stimulation of the drama he creates in his world. And when he's stimulated he'll bring himself back down again on alcohol. He’s using everybody here as part of the dramas he stages and probably having a right good laugh about it all. Very much like a troll.


If he didn't have so many posts, I'd think just here for the jollies. Maybe he is just long-term.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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