# Sexual desire during reconciliation



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm not sure if this forum or the "sex in marriage" forum is the most appropriate for my concern, but this does have to with the after effects of her affair, so here it is.

My wife and I are one year in R after she had a 2 year PA with her best friend's husband. I read a lot of gory details of the sex she had with him through the almost 4000 facebook messages I recovered. 

I've commented in previous threads that's she's done all I asked, is loving, and is doing the heavy lifting. The one issue however that seems to be a recurring theme with me, is that her sexual desire for me is less than mine for her. We have sex 2 or 3 times a week, and it's good when we have it, at least for me. I know for some that may seem plenty, but I crave it more often and I get quite frustrated. Add to that that I'm not seeing the sexual enthusiasm and provocative attitude from her, I read about with him (I'll spare you the details). It's almost as though she's ashamed or embarrassed to provide it after what happened.

She sometimes initiates, but when she does, it seems it's a sympathy reaction to my demonstrated frustration from prior days with no sex. I know she is trying hard. I'm getting copious affection, I love you's, everything else. I know women like to be romanced, but as time goes by, I'm finding it more and more difficult to return the affection due to my sexual frustration and recurring mind movies. This now seems to be a vicious cycle.

The issue in discussing this with her is that I don't want to come off as beating her in the head with her past actions and "guilting" her into this. I'm sure it wouldn't work in the long run, even if I did.

Perhaps I'm being selfish or mentally effected by what I read she was capable of doing with him. Do I need to adjust my attitude and be patient? If I discuss it with her, how should I approach it? Any sexual therapists in the audience?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

badmemory said:


> I'm not sure if this forum or the "sex in marriage" forum is the most appropriate for my concern, but this does have to with the after effects of her affair, so here it is.
> 
> My wife and I are one year in R after she had a 2 year PA with her best friend's husband. I read a lot of gory details of the sex she had with him through the almost 4000 facebook messages I recovered.
> 
> ...


Sorry you are here, and I don't have an answer for you. 

But, I can relate to your situation. 

Affairs seem to be so sex based that when the cheater doesn't seem as provocative with you as they were with the affair partner it feels fairly insulting. 

I am sorry that she not only betrayed you, but she betrayed her best friend, too. That's sad.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

I would say that's normal. You'll never be the forbidden fruit the other man (OM) was. After 24 years of marriage the familiarity factor must be strong now. And she wont readily forget the 2 years of sexual excitement with the OM, if ever.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

For what it's worth, her best friend is in a denial spiral and won't accept that it was anything other than an EA. She refuses to talk to me or accept the evidence I gave her. Not only that, she wanted to stay friends with my wife and I had to put an end to it. Terribly sad for her.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

aug said:


> I would say that's normal. You'll never be the forbidden fruit the other man (OM) was. After 24 years of marriage the familiarity factor must be strong now. And she wont readily forget the 2 years of sexual excitement with the OM, if ever.


:iagree:








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Some people let their marriages define them.

If they have to ignore the 800 pound gorilla taking a sh!t in the living room to maintain their fragile reality, thats what they're going to do.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Its never as enthusiastic and intense with the spouse as it was with AP. Even in an emotional affair- I can look and see the sheer quantity and quality of effort my FWH gave his AP and its sickening to be honest. That amount of effort rather it be sexual or emotional is not sustainable for the long haul. Plus they dont have dopamine raging through their brains with their spouse. Unfortunately or fortunately- depending on how you want to look at it- the love/sexual desire they feel for you is based in reality and not the land of fairy tales and puppy dogs. YOU come with bills, kids and real life. AP comes with complete bs. Nothing more. Only what WS wants to hear/see. Makes it easy for WS to dote all over AP-there is only their perception of reality to deal with. I can look at my H's 40-50 emails a day with her and think "really? and I couldnt get an answer to a text w/i the same 15 minutes!" The effort he put forth with me is painful b/c it pales in comparison to what he put forth with AP. BUT when I start to feel the ache from that I try and remind myself that what we have is REAL. Not some bs that cant stand the test of time. What you have with your WW is REAL. Not a show to keep you begging for more. Its her real person. What she gave OM was all for show. Not sustainable in reality. If they'd gotten together for the long term- dealt with bills, kids and life- HE would not be getting all of that effort over the long haul.

I hope this helps. I know it hurts to see someone else get more of your spouse than you got. But just remember - YOU get the real woman. Its what gets me thru the day sometimes.

Good luck. Hang in there.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Kasler said:


> Some people let their marriages define them.
> 
> If they have to ignore the 800 pound gorilla taking a sh!t in the living room to maintain their fragile reality, thats what they're going to do.



Such an excellent point.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

badmemory said:


> For what it's worth, her best friend is in a denial spiral and won't accept that it was anything other than an EA. She refuses to talk to me or accept the evidence I gave her. Not only that, she wanted to stay friends with my wife and I had to put an end to it. Terribly sad for her.


That may change. 

The OW's husband was really angry at me and in denial when I told him of the affair. 

Then almost eight mos. later out of the blue he called and asked to see my evidence. 

In her emails to my STBEH, she admitted to being a serial cheater with several long term affairs as well as one nighters under her belt.

The OW is now paying dearly for her serial cheating ways.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Its never as enthusiastic and intense with the spouse as it was with AP. Even in an emotional affair- I can look and see the sheer quantity and quality of effort my FWH gave his AP and its sickening to be honest. That amount of effort rather it be sexual or emotional is not sustainable for the long haul. Plus they dont have dopamine raging through their brains with their spouse. Unfortunately or fortunately- depending on how you want to look at it- the love/sexual desire they feel for you is based in reality and not the land of fairy tales and puppy dogs. YOU come with bills, kids and real life. AP comes with complete bs. Nothing more. Only what WS wants to hear/see. Makes it easy for WS to dote all over AP-there is only their perception of reality to deal with. I can look at my H's 40-50 emails a day with her and think "really? and I couldnt get an answer to a text w/i the same 15 minutes!" The effort he put forth with me is painful b/c it pales in comparison to what he put forth with AP. BUT when I start to feel the ache from that I try and remind myself that what we have is REAL. Not some bs that cant stand the test of time. What you have with your WW is REAL. Not a show to keep you begging for more. Its her real person. What she gave OM was all for show. Not sustainable in reality. If they'd gotten together for the long term- dealt with bills, kids and life- HE would not be getting all of that effort over the long haul.
> 
> I hope this helps. I know it hurts to see someone else get more of your spouse than you got. But just remember - YOU get the real woman. Its what gets me thru the day sometimes.
> 
> Good luck. Hang in there.


Thanks cantrustu,

That's a great perspective I hadn't thought about in a while. You seem wise beyond your years.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

badmemory said:


> Thanks cantrustu,
> 
> That's a great perspective I hadn't thought about in a while. You seem wise beyond your years.


Thanks. Unfortunately, its experience based.... I know its a difficult perspective to keep. Truly I do. But try to live in the reality that you have and not the fairytale land they had. Reality endures. I know this sucks. Dont compare yourself to him- at least to the best of your ability. Make your intimate life about more than sex. Its hard to do initially when all you want to do is strangle them- I get that. But as the intimacy outside the bedroom improves so too will the intimacy inside the bedroom

CTU


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

You've probably read it anyway, but most of the posters on here will recommend reading Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay.

It's not to everyones taste, not everyone agrees with the Alpha Beta behaviour thing but it does seem to work.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I take it apart from the desire for the OM caused by the dopamine rush she did stuff not normally done with you?

If thats so then it is not unusual, this happens many times and is a recurring theme. It is a by product of the illicit, immoral,fantasy nature of the affair.
You could mention, in a non confrontational manner that you would like a piece of what the OM had sometimes, but don't force the issue. Save it perhaps for a date nate or when you've got her worked up at some point.

If it is just the frequency be aware that many men on this forum would give their eye teeth to have sex 3 times a week. Running the MAP from MMSLP may help frequency and enthusiasm.


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> Thanks. Unfortunately, its experience based.... I know its a difficult perspective to keep. Truly I do. But try to live in the reality that you have and not the fairytale land they had. Reality endures. I know this sucks. Dont compare yourself to him- at least to the best of your ability. Make your intimate life about more than sex. Its hard to do initially when all you want to do is strangle them- I get that. But as the intimacy outside the bedroom improves so too will the intimacy inside the bedroom
> 
> CTU


VERY wise words that we would all do well to remember.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

After D day #3 I went through this with my STBXWW. 

It seemed as if she had no passion for me physically. I had a good idea what she was doing for him and what kind of passion she was capable of from the thousands of messages I read between them...courtesy of the OM's wife. I know it was just one big fantasy but they made it real for a while. I'll be damned if I will except anything less then her POSOM got. I deserved so much more.

During our false R, I wrote STBXW a note telling her exactly what I needed from her in order to stay married. I even discussed it with her many times. In my mind, if there was something on the list that she didn't or couldn't do...then I was gone. This was one of the things she never did...show me the attention and passion that I deserved. To me, that is part of true remorse.

It's not even close to being fair that she could lie and cheat for almost 2 years while treating me like s**t and I would have to except scraps of intimacy from her as part of our new life together. It was honestly better when she was cheating then afterward. I simply could not live with this so I filed for D and I am moving on. There were other reasons as well but this was a big one to me.

At least you are getting your scraps 2 to 3 times a week. After D day, I was getting about 2 to 3 times a month...and it was passionless from her...no effort. I did all of the lovemaking and expressing.

I remember thinking "why doesn't she at least try to fake it". It was pathetic...so one sided. Afterward I would feel terrible and rejected. We never really had any hysterical bonding although I wanted to hysterically bond with her. 

I think in some cases WS's just fall out of love/passion and don't try or know how to get it back.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Decimated said:


> After D day, I was getting about 2 to 3 times a month...and it was passionless from her...no effort. I did all of the lovemaking and expressing.
> 
> I remember thinking "why doesn't she at least try to fake it". It was pathetic...so one sided. Afterward I would feel terrible and rejected. We never really had any hysterical bonding although I wanted to hysterically bond with her.
> 
> I think in some cases WS's just fall out of love/passion and don't try or know how to get it back.


That theme comes up a lot at infidelity sites, the theme that the BS is doing more than the Cheater to reconcile. It seems to be a common complaint among BS's who finally truly come out of their own BS fog.

When I came out of my BS fog, I realized what a jerk I was for feeling sorry for my cheating spouse and trying to change myself to make him happy. 

IMO, most cheaters will never be happy with reality. 

They can not handle reality and a real marriage is just too real for them. 

So they create the fantasy world of an affair. It is something I don't think that is easily correctable that inability to be realistic about life.

When I see a BS twisting themself into a pretzel to please the cheater, I know there will most likely be another Dday coming for those people. 

If the BS is realistic and sets strict boundaries and makes demands and does not repress their anger and resentment. I think those people have a good chance of a real reconciliation.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Your situation is horrible. BS (betrayed spouses) have it the worst when deprived because of their faithful tendencies they do not reach out and fulfill their lacking sexual cravings with others.


You need to start empirically testing different ways to get her more excited about you, mentally, emotionally and physically. If you're usually nice about things or always the same (boring, predictable, and/or habitual) in the way you talk, act, etc then spice it up, be firm yet playful, forceful yet gentle, sometimes you have to take charge, and sometimes you let her take charge. Change up the hours, the times, the schedules, etc etc.

Make it spontaneous, build it up, take your time, quickie, long/short slow deep and loving marathon etc etc

Like waves on a beach you have to make your sex life up and down in terms of tempo. Change it ever so often in how you both build up, in how you reference to your wife, innuendos, play talk, mind building a great future encounter with you.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Your situation is horrible. BS (betrayed spouses) have it the worst when deprived because of their faithful tendencies they do not reach out and fulfill their lacking sexual cravings with others.
> 
> 
> You need to start empirically testing different ways to get her more excited about you, mentally, emotionally and physically. If you're usually nice about things or always the same (boring, predictable, and/or habitual) in the way you talk, act, etc then spice it up, be firm yet playful, forceful yet gentle, sometimes you have to take charge, and sometimes you let her take charge. Change up the hours, the times, the schedules, etc etc.
> ...


Replies like this are why I posted on this section instead of the "Sex in Marriage" section. There are so many here who offer perspectives I wouldn't have considered. I'm fortunate to have found it. Thanks for your reply.


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## skip76 (Aug 30, 2011)

boogie110 said:


> Badmemory:
> 
> Hope this helps. Women, in general, want different things....obviously, I know.
> 
> But I would suggest that you hug her A LOT more. You kiss her on the cheek - a lot more. You tell her how beautiful she is .. a lot more. You tell her how great she looks in those jeans or dress or whatever.... You compliment her if she does house cleaning... You ask her about her day - without her thinking you are digging for information on whether she is not cheating..you are actually interested in her day - every single day. You call her at least 2 times during the day when you are apart - at work. Most women have affairs after being emotional with the guy...Guys are emotional, generally, after being sexual with the woman. So, if you want more sex you will be EMOTIONAL at all times like: I missed you, I love you, compliments...anything that ties you to her emotionally. The great sex with affairs with women is that the man has done extreme emotional stuff - whether the woman knows it or not - she got the emotional stuff from him that she was looking for or was not even noticing that she missed until the man came around and gave it to her - THEN the sex happened. Remember how you were when you first dated her and you will (even with bad memory - hope you can get it back quickly) get some of what I am saying. Redate her and redate her every single day as if it was your very first date. By the way - I'm a woman and my lovely husband has been cheating on me for 25 years - since we dated. I just read this site because I feel less alone in my Sh.t. But I do know what I am talking about regarding your question...It's easy, actually if you follow the ... everyday is a new different first date with my wife. She may not always get it, but she will be different..and so will you...for the better.


With all do respect your viewpoint is coming from a woman who's husband has been cheating on her for 25 years. Of course that is what you would like and feel would connect you but ask the woman who has had 25 years of a doting husband and i think you will get a different answer.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Maybe she is not attracted to you. She has no fear of her losing you and she doesn't have to worry about your attraction for her. She think her sexual rank is much higher than yours. And consider all the wild things she did with her OM, what you are currently doing is pretty vanilla..


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## Lmodel (Jun 1, 2012)

I can relate as I have a very similar story. My wife also had a 2 year PA with her best friends husband. We are together and trying to reconcile however it's a hard slog. I'd be interested to know how your wife's circle of friends have treated her and you post Dday? Given the lies and deception carried out by my wife throughout the affair most of her friends have deserted her and unfortunately I seem to be tainted by association. Were you friends with the husband and how did he treat you while the affair was going on?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Lmodel said:


> I can relate as I have a very similar story. My wife also had a 2 year PA with her best friends husband. We are together and trying to reconcile however it's a hard slog. I'd be interested to know how your wife's circle of friends have treated her and you post Dday? Given the lies and deception carried out by my wife throughout the affair most of her friends have deserted her and unfortunately I seem to be tainted by association. Were you friends with the husband and how did he treat you while the affair was going on?


Sorry to hear about your story. Maybe we should compare notes sometime.

I was not really friends with him at all, but always thought well of him because he was always so "helpful and willing to help her and us out". He was friendly to me, but avoided me mostly. Now I know why. I always trusted him, because it never occurred to me that my wife would ever cheat with her best friend's husband. Come to find out, his messages show he's the most perverted POS that I've ever come across. (But I digress.)

I'm probably different from you because I don't really have any close friends, nor would I give a rat's arse if I was disassociated with any of hers. She no longer associates with most of her friends from before. Part of that is because a majority of them were cheating on their husbands (not this best friend) and I simply won't allow her to go do things with the ones that were - if she wants to stay married to me. Also she is now retired from the job where she saw them every day (she was a teacher). She may have lost a couple who were "shocked and chagrined", but most of them would not have cared.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

jj123456 said:


> What exactly is this meant to mean? Bear with me if I'm being naive.


The poster, I believe, was responding to my description of the AP's wife not accepting or believing the evidence I gave her of her husband's affair with my wife.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

badmemory, do you feel,on some level, that your wife's affair was your fault?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> badmemory, do you feel,on some level, that your wife's affair was your fault?


I did for a few weeks after D day. In fact I regrettably told her that I would concede that my actions influenced it. One of the several things I did wrong after I found out. 

But I don't feel that way now because I know better. And I've let her know that.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

So OP, did your wife do things with the OM that she never did with your or was it simply the energy she put into the romance and sex with the OM. If the former, I'd be highly pissed and blast her. If it was the latter, then I am not sure what to do aside from give her a deadline that your gone after this date if she can't find her feelings for you. JMO, take it for what it's worth. But you do not deserve to be treated as #2 by her or any woman you may be involved with in the future.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So OP, did your wife do things with the OM that she never did with your or was it simply the energy she put into the romance and sex with the OM. If the former, I'd be highly pissed and blast her. If it was the latter, then I am not sure what to do aside from give her a deadline that your gone after this date if she can't find her feelings for you. JMO, take it for what it's worth. But you do not deserve to be treated as #2 by her or any woman you may be involved with in the future.


Yes, I would consider threesome sex (another woman), and texting genital pictures to be in the "never did with me category". But then on the other hand, I've never asked her to do that. He did. I know because I read his messages.

To me, that takes a that take a lot of energy and a willingness to please. That's what I don't see as much of.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I am having struggles with this issue as well. My wife would write things to this guy she would never say to me or write to me and she would send him pictures she would never have sent to me. She even made a video of herself masturbating. That is something she barley admits she does let also send me a video.
She tells me because she had not stress with him, no problems to deal with him that she felt free to be open. I think that is a bunch of BS
We are having sex a few times a week but if’s 15 or 20 minutes and it is over. She is not sexting me 20 or 30 times a day.
I still wonder what she may have not told me about things they did or said to each other. This is the issue that all BS deal with but I think it is worse for us men


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

You should make that a condition of reconciliation mahike. Fix herself if she wants to keep you.

I'd be afraid of her wanting the good sex again down the road. She needs to figure out how to be that woman with you. She can, she just won't let herself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

When my wife's affair ended she seemed angry with me. When she rejected any attempts at intimacy for a while, I felt destroyed. My confidence in my self was zero, pretty much.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mahike said:


> I am having struggles with this issue as well. My wife would write things to this guy she would never say to me or write to me and she would send him pictures she would never have sent to me. She even made a video of herself masturbating. That is something she barley admits she does let also send me a video.
> She tells me because she had not stress with him, no problems to deal with him that she felt free to be open. I think that is a bunch of BS
> We are having sex a few times a week but if’s 15 or 20 minutes and it is over. She is not sexting me 20 or 30 times a day.
> I still wonder what she may have not told me about things they did or said to each other. This is the issue that all BS deal with but I think it is worse for us men


From what I have seen here at TAM, it's about as bad for all BS, male or female.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

larry.gray said:


> Y*ou should make that a condition of reconciliation mahike. Fix herself if she wants to keep you.
> *
> I'd be afraid of her wanting the good sex again down the road. She needs to figure out how to be that woman with you. She can, she just won't let herself.


I so agree with this.Not trying to beat some one down here.
But i will never understand, how Husband/Wife puts up with that.
To me that would be a even bigger slap in the face.Then the affair in it self..

*Again not trying to offend some one..*


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

aug said:


> I would say that's normal. You'll never be the forbidden fruit the other man (OM) was. After 24 years of marriage the familiarity factor must be strong now. And she wont readily forget the 2 years of sexual excitement with the OM, if ever.


Right. And when she does get off, you know what she's remembering.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> You've probably read it anyway, but most of the posters on here will recommend reading Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay.
> 
> It's not to everyones taste, not everyone agrees with the Alpha Beta behaviour thing but it does seem to work.


:iagree: And it doesn't matter if you believe in or agree with Alpha Beta etc or not. You don't have to believe it, just start doing it and you will be a believer in about 72 hours. Start working the MAP (in the book) and play out the string. It will take you where you want to be or, alternatively, where you need to be.

Sloopy seconds is bad enough, but crappy sloppy seconds dished out in a less than enthusiastic fashion is intolerable. Don't be the guy who settles for that ****e. You only get one crack at life on this planet.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

badmemory said:


> I'm not seeing the sexual enthusiasm and provocative attitude from her, I read about with him (I'll spare you the details). It's almost as though she's ashamed or embarrassed to provide it after what happened.


Well that's not good at all. She's not as enthusiastic and provactive and, let's face it, turned on by you as she was with the other man. You try to fill in the blanks by saying its because she's embarassed or ashamed and that's all well and good but it could be the farthest reason from the actual truth. 

You may need to consider the possibility that she's staying with you because she prefers the comfort of her existing life to divorce and all the ramifications that go with it, and not because she has anywhere near the level of attraction she once had for you and that she recently had for a perfect stranger. 

These things can't be forced. Sure she can sort of play along and give you what she knows you want but if her heart isn't really into it and she's doing it just to placate you to save the marriage for all the wrong reasons, is that what you really want for the rest of your life?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

kindi said:


> Well that's not good at all. She's not as enthusiastic and provactive and, let's face it, turned on by you as she was with the other man. You try to fill in the blanks by saying its because she's embarassed or ashamed and that's all well and good but it could be the farthest reason from the actual truth.
> 
> You may need to consider the possibility that she's staying with you because she prefers the comfort of her existing life to divorce and all the ramifications that go with it, and not because she has anywhere near the level of attraction she once had for you and that she recently had for a perfect stranger.
> 
> These things can't be forced. Sure she can sort of play along and give you what she knows you want but if her heart isn't really into it and she's doing it just to placate you to save the marriage for all the wrong reasons, is that what you really want for the rest of your life?


Well, better late than never on the advice kindi. Perhaps you've read some of my recent postings about the POSOM, and if so, I can understand your concern.

To give you an update, things have improved in that area as our communication about it has progressed. Of course I've considered that she is placating in regards to sex, but to be honest, I had those same thoughts before she had an affair.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet but at the same time, I'm not ruling out leaving her. It's day to day, week to week, month to month. That said, I've learned that I will have to accept a certain amount of ambiguity over her motivation. I'll have to accept replays of the mind movies. But that has improved over time and I hope it will continue. 

As I've given advice to other posters about the WS needing to show remorse, I know how important it is. I've been with her long enough to know that she is trying her hardest, even is she hasn't been perfect all the time.

So to answer your last question; at whatever point I feel that she is settling, I'd like to think that I'll recognize it and (now) have the strength to let her go.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Tough situation OP, because she did do things with the OM that she probably never did with you, never wanted to do with you, and never felt enough passion and excitement to do with you.

You get the play the role of cuckold and that ordinary guy that she married and can fall back on when she needs some support and security, but the excitement is elsewhere. Ain't marriage wonderful?

I'd just make a suggestion about your wife's lack of libido. Others have suggested that it's her experience with the OM that is the reason. That's part of it I'm sure, but that doesn't mean she's basically still dreaming about him and still getting off on that fantasy as the only way she can get off with you. She may have lost the desire for sex altogether after the disaster of the affair. 

It sounds like the euphoria has long since worn off, meaning she probably at some point has had to do some sobering self-searching and it probably doesn't look pretty. She could have developed a real revulsion for sex because of that. That's not to say she isn't still susceptible to the drug, and might not be fantasizing still, but it may be a back-and-forth pendulum between revulsion and a need to escape from it, which would of course be the fairy-tale sex world of the OM.

Sounds to me like she's willing to have sex with you for your sake because she feels so bad about it. That doesn't mean she's reserving it in her mind for the OM whom she's still longing over. Now I don't want to paint a rosy picture of her as being altruistic because I can't possibly know, but sex may be something that she's not enthusiastic about at all right now from you or anybody.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

It sounds like you are trying to get on with sex just like you had it before. You probably had a formula that included romance and typical 'lovemaking' stuff. You can't just go on with this like nothing happened. You read the details of her with another guy yourself. They are burned in your head. You are angry and hurting. This kinky guy made your wife his plaything. You can't just pick up where you left off. Turning on the romance when you feel like having sex to meet your needs is ignoring your feelings and 'dishonest' in that it's fake. It's not good for you or for her.

Sex cannot be the same as it once was. Sex is a time when passion and emotion run strong. I suggest that you don't hold back in telling her exactly how you feel. If your 'mind movies' start playing when you are doing her, let her know this. Tell her how angry you are about it.

I think that the absolute worst thing that you can do is to put on fake romance in the hopes of having satisfying sex with her. It will never work for either of you during this time when love and romance is the furthest thing from the reality of your situation.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

badmemory said:


> Well, better late than never on the advice kindi. Perhaps you've read some of my recent postings about the POSOM, and if so, I can understand your concern.
> 
> To give you an update, things have improved in that area as our communication about it has progressed. Of course I've considered that she is placating in regards to sex, but to be honest, I had those same thoughts before she had an affair.
> 
> ...



Didn't you say that the OM was her original plan and you were the backup ? he wouldn't leave his wife for your wife and he dumped her. Now she is back with the tail between her legs with the only guy that would be with her. To be honest, the worst part is insulting you in their chats with the OM. Then doing sexual stuff with him that she would never do with you...

What do you hope by reconciling ?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Didn't you say that the OM was her original plan and you were the backup ? he wouldn't leave his wife for your wife and he dumped her. Now she is back with the tail between her legs with the only guy that would be with her. To be honest, the worst part is insulting you in their chats with the OM. Then doing sexual stuff with him that she would never do with you...
> 
> What do you hope by reconciling ?


I 'hope" that my life with a loving and remorseful wife will be better than my life should I divorce her.

I "know" I am enjoying our relationship right now, more than I have in years.

I "hope" that I can continue to assuage my loss of self respect even as I replay what she did in my mind, every day.

I "know" that I have had and will have peaks and valleys in this process.

I "hope" that we can reconcile because I love her and I'm not ready to give up on a 25 year marriage.

I "don't know" if I'll be able to get past her betrayal of me.

I "hope" that if I can't, I'll recognize when I reach that point and leave; but I won't hold any shame for at least trying.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

larry.gray said:


> You should make that a condition of reconciliation mahike. Fix herself if she wants to keep you.
> 
> I'd be afraid of her wanting the good sex again down the road. She needs to figure out how to be that woman with you. She can, she just won't let herself.


Yep I agree and we keep beating this issue up in MC. It was suggested we not have sex for 6 weeks. My first thougt was well this lets my wife off the hook. We did have sex twice during this time frame and all it did was to remind me that it was her choice and hers only.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Been there, done that... and recovered. Don’t “guilt her” into sex. Just say what you know to be true. For me, the nearly sexless marriage was bordering on a real deal-breaker prior to discovery of her affairs. I sat her down. Two parts:

Part One: Her and that she needs to work on this or lose you....

What I once tolerated in our prior marriage out of consideration toward her and whether or not it was worth divorcing over, I would no longer tolerate knowing what I know now. She pushed over that cliff. The low libido was a act. Zero excuses; I’d heard too many over the years and one more was insult to a vast injury already. It isn’t a ‘ultimatum’ it is merely stating my boundary. Make it clear that you are seriously re-establishing the value she has to you and your future. And right now, you damn well know how much easier it’d be for you to walk away since she provided you the ultimate excuse for your own “why”. So... She needs to understand that from here on out, her affairs will act as a deficit on her value to you. Where she was close to the border before, she’s now over it. She can be a wife, or an ex-wife. I can have a pleasant sexless friendship with an ex-wife.... So she better ask herself what the differences are and focus on being a wife worth having.

Part Two: Work on yourself....
You do need to up your ‘attraction’. Work on yourself. Do not listen to her about what is attractive. The most attractive feature is self-confidence. That can’t happen listening to anyone else and being who you hope they’d want. Listen to yourself and be that man. Whining, begging, trying to ‘reason’ someone into your perspective: Not attractive traits. Just stating who you are and where you stand is attractive. Avoid tantrums. Watch for passive/aggressive. Learn to game your spouse and drop expectations. Lots of stuff for you to work on internally. This will also serve you well even if the marriage ends. And again; Do not listen to her and what spews out of her mouth. (Has that ever worked?) She doesn’t know and it’s just a list of complaints the “bug her” anyway. Poor vacuuming skills has nothing to do with libido. Do what you think is best for you. 

Oh... and stop comparing yourself to the OM. Every relationship is conditional; What you get out of it sort of stuff. The conditions your WW has for you is vast (as her spouse). This in turn has her actions following her ‘what a wife looks like’ script. For the OM... her conditions for him was limited... so her script would look more like ‘mistress/lover’ for how she behaved. Sucks to be sure, but you can’t really change this much. As long as she’s ‘boxed’ herself into roles and what they look like, acting like a cheap hooker when she’s your wife is going to conflict in her head against that “respectable behavior” a wife and mother is supposed to be like. She’ll also have to learn to just be herself and lose the conditions of labels.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Racer said:


> What I once tolerated in our prior marriage out of consideration toward her and whether or not it was worth divorcing over, I would no longer tolerate knowing what I know now. She pushed over that cliff. The low libido was a act. Zero excuses; I’d heard too many over the years and one more was insult to a vast injury already. It isn’t a ‘ultimatum’ it is merely stating my boundary. Make it clear that you are seriously re-establishing the value she has to you and your future. And right now, you damn well know how much easier it’d be for you to walk away since she provided you the ultimate excuse for your own “why”. So... She needs to understand that from here on out, her affairs will act as a deficit on her value to you. Where she was close to the border before, she’s now over it. She can be a wife, or an ex-wife. I can have a pleasant sexless friendship with an ex-wife.... So she better ask herself what the differences are and focus on being a wife worth having.
> 
> This in turn has her actions following her ‘what a wife looks like’ script. For the OM... her conditions for him was limited... so her script would look more like ‘mistress/lover’ for how she behaved. Sucks to be sure, but you can’t really change this much. As long as she’s ‘boxed’ herself into roles and what they look like, acting like a cheap hooker when she’s your wife is going to conflict in her head against that “respectable behavior” a wife and mother is supposed to be like. She’ll also have to learn to just be herself and lose the conditions of labels.


Got to hand it to you Racer, that's the most spot on and cogent perspective I've read on here in a while.

"*She needs to understand that from here on out, her affairs will act as a deficit on her value to you."*

Good stuff. Thanks.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Racer said:


> Been there, done that... and recovered. Don’t “guilt her” into sex. Just say what you know to be true. For me, the nearly sexless marriage was bordering on a real deal-breaker prior to discovery of her affairs. I sat her down. Two parts:
> 
> Part One: Her and that she needs to work on this or lose you....
> 
> ...


That is just about what I did last week. Since I know she is capable of something different then that is what I expect out of her and she need to work on that and work on that now. I told her that no sex or low sex drive was a deal breaker.


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