# The male BS



## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

I was going to post this in another thread, but it felt too much like threadjacking. The basic gist of the other thread is how women feel ugly after their husbands cheat.

I wonder what guys think when they get cheated on? With women, we always gravitate to the reason being a matter of physical appearance. What do guys think? Do they do the "looks" comparison? Or is it a sex thing? Do you wonder if he is well endowed? Has a better career? What's the reason that men tend to gravitate to, to explain the affair?


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

I sank into self-loathing and depression. I felt impotent and worthless. I didn't eat for an entire week and a half. I found out later that she had cheated with a guy who made half as much money as me and had a c0ck half as long as mine. He was not a good guy, and it was one of the most perplexing things I ever faced. At the end of the day she just wanted something new. Even if it was a bad deal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Gosh! What's with the downtrading?

The only thing I could think of is that their APs have such low self esteem that they will do just about anything for the attention, and "love", feelings, whatever. That's what my stbxh says anyway. That his A's were never physical *cough*, and that it was all about getting them to do whatever he wanted them to do (dirty texts, emails, calls, pics, etc.)

Fvcking stupid.


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## cantdecide (Apr 9, 2012)

Me too, for a while. My wifes AP looks 20 years older than her, is semi-retired (she has to continue to work while he sits on his lazy ass at home), has a disfunctional relationship with his daughters, etc. I once had a friend ask me who the old guy was she was with. There's no explaining it. I'm just glad I got a "get out of jail free" card.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I couldn't understand the "why's", none of that made any sense to me at all... 

I do remember how I felt though. I didn't feel ugly, I felt inadequate. _/inˈadikwit/_ : Adjective : _d =_ Not adequate; lacking the quality or quantity required; insufficient.

That's a tough pill for an "alpha" male.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

My stbxw's exOM is hideous (not just saying that - he looks like a troll) and a complete and utter step (more like 1000 stories) down. Seemed to be a reflection of how she viewed herself.

Some trade up, some trade waaaaaay down.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Vanguard said:


> I sank into self-loathing and depression. I felt impotent and worthless. I didn't eat for an entire week and a half. I found out later that she had cheated with a guy who made half as much money as me and had a c0ck half as long as mine. He was not a good guy, and it was one of the most perplexing things I ever faced. At the end of the day she just wanted something new. Even if it was a bad deal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Vanguard said:


> I sank into self-loathing and depression. I felt impotent and worthless. I didn't eat for an entire week and a half. I found out later that she had cheated with a guy who made half as much money as me and had a c0ck half as long as mine. He was not a good guy, and it was one of the most perplexing things I ever faced. At the end of the day she just wanted something new. Even if it was a bad deal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Umm, can I ask how you know his c$ck is half as long? Isn't that something a ww would lie about? Just curious.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Healer said:


> Yup.


Hey I don't know the entirety of your story but I want you to know you have good reason to hope. As you said, some trade up and some trade down. I traded way up. I'm dating a beautiful young woman and were doing really, really well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

cantdecide said:


> I'm just glad I got a "get out of jail free" card.


Amen brother!! That's my view too.

My stbxw the other day came in for a beer when we did the kids change over - her first time in the house since she moved out. She was emotional and crying, but said "It hurts to say this, but I can tell you're way better without me. One day, you're going to thank me for this".


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Umm, can I ask how you know his c$ck is half as long? Isn't that something a ww would lie about? Just curious.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Had a long, long discussion with his ex a while after everything happened
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Vanguard said:


> Hey I don't know the entirety of your story but I want you to know you have good reason to hope. As you said, some trade up and some trade down. I traded way up. I'm dating a beautiful young woman and were doing really, really well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks amigo. I'm not having any problems attracting women of a higher quality. And the more I date - the more I know what I want in a woman - and perhaps more importantly, what I DON'T want.


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## thatcleanhippyguy (May 17, 2013)

I would be saddened if my wife were to fall in love with another man then cheat with some random guy. I wouldn't care at all if she had some random fling. I've never tied sex to intimacy. 

And no, i'm not cold hearted or a narcissist. I'm just weird.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Vanguard said:


> Had a long, long discussion with his ex a while after everything happened
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


lol


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Vanguard said:


> Had a long, long discussion with his ex a while after everything happened
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Oh, got it. That makes sense. I have a couple of good guy buddies at work that have told me that men often trade down during affairs. Apparently that's true for women as well. Makes no sense to me, going out for dog food when I have prime rib at home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Oh, got it. That makes sense. I have a couple of good guy buddies at work that have told me that men often trade down during affairs. Apparently that's true for women as well. Makes no sense to me, going out for dog food when I have prime rib at home.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well anyone who knows my story can tell you that the ex had numerous issues plaguing her. I wouldn't really take her actions as accurate representation of most WWs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

It's not about finding better, it's about different. 

most of my fwws APs were VERY bad looking. The rest were average.

But they fit the only criteria she had: they were different. 

Bigger, smaller, fatter, uglier, mean, nice, each was one of these things. But the only thing they all had in common was that they weren't me. 

The answer to why: Because he wasn't you. 

That is always what the answer is, they wanted someone besides you. They didn't want to stay monogamous. They were bored, or felt they had needs that must be met, or just didn't really like you enough to care if you got hurt. In the end, the reason is they're fresh and new.

Whatever drove them to want fresh and new doesn't matter. They wanted it, opportunity came up, and they took it.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

The first time my wife betrayed he was "Mr. Exciting". He was rich, had a 6,000 SF house, martial arts instructor... He flew her around for lunches and dinners a few hundred miles away... She thought they were going to have this 'life' together and after a couple of weeks he told her she was just his latest play toy. She crashed hard.

Betrayal #2 was a guy 20 years older and had serious ed issues. He was a pathetic person.

Betrayal #3 was a loser just out of jail. Squat, no life, a drifter...

Point being betrayers are addicts. And it doesn't matter the "drug" if it's beautiful & wonderful or not at all, at the end of the day it's just about feeding the addiction.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

As a BS, my thoughts of being betrayed changed as I learned the full truth.

Initially, when my WS spouse TT'd and only admitted to a 3 month EA, I was upset, but honesty, I wasn't devastated. I foolishly believed her that it was only an EA and I didn't understand the full reality of what an EA was. (I didn't have the benefit of TAM back then).

My wife and I hadn't had real intimacy in our marriage for a long time and I was very resentful of her because of the lack of sex. I rug swept big time because I thought it wasn't sexual. Of course now I know better.

I'll leave the details out about all my thoughts when I found out that it was a 2 year PA; other than to say that I was completely devastated - and angry. I was incredulous that my wife could have a PA with this slimy POS, who was obviously using her for a sex toy. I didn't compare myself to him because he made me look like a saint. And trust me, that's hard to do. I was just overtaken with shock.

Not sure that's what you're looking for OP, but I wonder if I'm not alone in the EA vs. PA perspective that other betrayed males have.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

On DDay, I was devastated beyond anything I had ever known. I went into survival mode trying to save my marriage.

I felt totally impotent. I lost 30 lbs in 10 days. I felt like a total loser. I didn't feel attractive at all. I went and did things for myself and just started working on myself. The gym has been my haven. 

My Ex took her boyfriend to my kids soccer game and his team mates asked if that was his grandfather... I'm at the point where I just don't care. I'm in a better place


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## life.is.pain (Aug 28, 2012)

I haven't seen my stbxw's posom, but if its the same dude that she met back in january 2012 (which i believe he is) my 14 yr old daughter said he's an ugly mutha. And yes i do believe she traded down. 

For she told her dad last year that the dude was different. Different how, whats so special about him ? Naw he ain't jack. Its like someone said its cause she got bored on the marriage and well the dude is just someone new.

If i ever saw him or ever ran into them together, i wouldn' lose it, i would glady walk up to him and say now she is your problem to deal with and good luck. For i know she ain't gonna stay loyal to him, she will get bored of him and find another new one.

All i want is my freedom from her, hoping to get it soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> On DDay, I was devastated beyond anything I had ever known. I went into survival mode trying to save my marriage.
> 
> I felt totally impotent. I lost 30 lbs in 10 days. I felt like a total loser. I didn't feel attractive at all. I went and did things for myself and just started working on myself. The gym has been my haven.
> 
> My Ex took her boyfriend to my kids soccer game and his team mates asked if that was his grandfather... I'm at the point where I just don't care. I'm in a better place


In my theory: 

A BS sells themselves short originally. Even before they become betrayed, they often don't realize just how desired they are. 

They fool themselves into thinking the WS is too good for them, even before the WS does the cheating. This in turn, makes the WS believe the same. 

I think it's a subconscious thought that permeates all of the interactions between the WS and BS prior to the cheating. The WS becomes convinced of their superiority. They have *needs* and those needs are to be met at all costs. At this point almost nothing can be done. It just sets the stage and creates a sense of entitlement. 

A negative feedback loop ensues where the soon to be WS needs ever more attention, romance, love, whatever. But as they get more, they crave more, and believe they deserve more and more until it grows wildly out of control. 

But once this illusion unravels and the WS realizes it, it's often too late. The damage has been done, horse is out of the barn. It also happens that the BS wakes up, and ends up in a far better position than they were, whether they R or not. 

I read your story and see a lot I can relate to.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

All my WW' s OM' s were younger, way, way younger. Not especially ugly or good looking. My WW had just turned 50 and was feeling "old". I'm a little older and kind of made a joke of it (hey honey, you got a letter from AARP!). I didn't realize it but her self esteem was already pretty low and she was suffering from a huge MLC. So when Slim Shady hit on her (he is in his mid thirties, and looks younger) she pretty much fell for it hook, line and sinker. Her ONS after that was with another young guy. I asked her why she did it again after she had finally dumped OM#1, she said because he was black and she had never been with a black guy. I tell you what, I pretty much laid into her after that. How the hell can I compete with that?? I can't get any younger, and of course the plumbing doesn't work like it did when I was thirty. I definitely can't change the color of my skin. That whole thing was almost a deal breaker as far as R goes. There was no way I was going to be compared with dudes almost twenty years younger than me. Took me awhile to get past that, still haven't completely. Luckily these POS' s were selfish and crap in bed (Wam BAM thank you M'am). Of course I would be lying if I said I haven't enjoyed her trying to repair my self esteem.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

awake1 said:


> In my theory:
> 
> A BS sells themselves short originally. Even before they become betrayed, they often don't realize just how desired they are.
> 
> ...


I spent a good while thinking it was all my fault. I have good friends, very strong who helped me see the truth quickly.

I did sell myself short. I realized in a a month that was just self doubt. I came out of it in a month. I dealt with the pain, but the self doubt went away shortly. It did suck but I got the better deal out of it all.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

deep deep depression

The feeling of being damaged goods like what wasn't I to you

What did I not do that I should have or what was I doing that I shouldn't have

Totally destroyed ego and sense of self worth

What did you need from him that I didn't give you

The feeling of being utterly alone even if someone is around

The feeling of a small bit of innocence that I had left from childhood completely destroyed

That feeling that no matter what went bad in the world, she and I were in this together gone and lost forever

And the never ending haunting why why why!


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

MovingAhead said:


> On DDay, I was devastated beyond anything I had ever known. I went into survival mode trying to save my marriage.
> 
> I felt totally impotent. I lost 30 lbs in 10 days. I felt like a total loser. I didn't feel attractive at all. I went and did things for myself and just started working on myself. The gym has been my haven.
> 
> My Ex took her boyfriend to my kids soccer game and his team mates asked if that was his grandfather... I'm at the point where I just don't care. I'm in a better place


Respect, brother.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

HarryDoyle said:


> All my WW' s OM' s were younger, way, way younger. Not especially ugly or good looking. My WW had just turned 50 and was feeling "old". I'm a little older and kind of made a joke of it (hey honey, you got a letter from AARP!). I didn't realize it but her self esteem was already pretty low and she was suffering from a huge MLC. So when Slim Shady hit on her (he is in his mid thirties, and looks younger) she pretty much fell for it hook, line and sinker. Her ONS after that was with another young guy. I asked her why she did it again after she had finally dumped OM#1, she said because he was black and she had never been with a black guy. I tell you what, I pretty much laid into her after that. How the hell can I compete with that?? I can't get any younger, and of course the plumbing doesn't work like it did when I was thirty. I definitely can't change the color of my skin. That whole thing was almost a deal breaker as far as R goes. There was no way I was going to be compared with dudes almost twenty years younger than me. Took me awhile to get past that, still haven't completely. Luckily these POS' s were selfish and crap in bed (Wam BAM thank you M'am). Of course I would be lying if I said I haven't enjoyed her trying to repair my self esteem.


Lol. At least she can see it for what it was. It's not for you to compare or compete with those dudes, you are a husband and you take care of her.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

My W's xAP was 8 inches shorter than me - a very short individual. But hugely muscular. Built like a fire hydrant. Looks wise we are pretty similar - it depends on the "type" you like. He probably makes 1/2 my salary, but has a decent job.

For her though, it wasn't about that at all. It was simply the bond they had over 20 years of friendship. She just no longer believed I could be what she needed and sought it from him. And he was more than happy to oblige.

Thankfully, after a couple of awful setbacks, we are in a good place today. For now.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

I had the opportunity to sit in jail for a weekend due to false charges by my cheating ex which gave me time to collect my thoughts for a plan. She admitted to wallowing with all sorts of "better" men one of which I'm fairly sure was a local attorney. 
In the end, she drew the other kind of "short stick" since she's now broke and homeless and has realized that having a dummy work to keep a roof over her head was a better deal than she realized.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

HarryDoyle said:


> All my WW' s OM' s were younger, way, way younger. Not especially ugly or good looking. My WW had just turned 50 and was feeling "old". I'm a little older and kind of made a joke of it (hey honey, you got a letter from AARP!). I didn't realize it but her self esteem was already pretty low and she was suffering from a huge MLC. So when Slim Shady hit on her (he is in his mid thirties, and looks younger) she pretty much fell for it hook, line and sinker. Her ONS after that was with another young guy. I asked her why she did it again after she had finally dumped OM#1, she said because he was black and she had never been with a black guy. I tell you what, I pretty much laid into her after that. How the hell can I compete with that?? I can't get any younger, and of course the plumbing doesn't work like it did when I was thirty. I definitely can't change the color of my skin. That whole thing was almost a deal breaker as far as R goes. There was no way I was going to be compared with dudes almost twenty years younger than me. Took me awhile to get past that, still haven't completely. Luckily these POS' s were selfish and crap in bed (Wam BAM thank you M'am). Of course I would be lying if I said I haven't enjoyed her trying to repair my self esteem.


LOL @ Slim Shady.


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

In my case, my WW of 41 traded me at 42 for a 59 yr old bald, grey twat karate instructor who lives in his ex fiances cottage and can barely afford the rent and to eat.......who knew.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

My wife's OM was a couple inches shorter, and fit. I'm also pretty fit. She described his c0ck as "unique" and that he had an unforgettable ass. Now any time she compliments my ass, I think of her comment and in my head ask, "is it unforgettable?"

So yeah, it plays a LOT of mind games on you, your self worth, your worth as a man, as a lover, all of it. Financially I'd say I make at least what he does, and although now she says he wasn't that good looking, I have hundreds of emails from her to him that say otherwise. 

It's a real study in worthlessness. You have to work hard to remember who you are, what your worth is to yourSELF, and that he's a cheating POS with a wife and four kids (towards college age now). And even though now she calls him an effin a-hole, it doesn't do much for my self esteem to hear it from her. In fact, it feels like platitudes.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> My wife's OM was a couple inches shorter, and fit. I'm also pretty fit. She described his c0ck as "unique" and that he had an unforgettable ass. Now any time she compliments my ass, I think of her comment and in my head ask, "is it unforgettable?"
> 
> So yeah, it plays a LOT of mind games on you, your self worth, your worth as a man, as a lover, all of it. Financially I'd say I make at least what he does, and although now she says he wasn't that good looking, I have hundreds of emails from her to him that say otherwise.
> 
> It's a real study in worthlessness. You have to work hard to remember who you are, what your worth is to yourSELF, and that he's a cheating POS with a wife and four kids (towards college age now). And even though now she calls him an effin a-hole, it doesn't do much for my self esteem to hear it from her. In fact, it feels like platitudes.


Good God - did you ask her to describe his co*k?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

My wife’s PA OM’s were all a certain ethnicity and cultural background that I am not. I do not ever feel desired or attractive in her eyes. I simply can not be what it appears she is attracted to because I am a upper-middle class suburban white guy and she’s apparently into minority immigrants. Actually, I think it’s more of a immigrant/accent/different culture thing than skin color. Didn’t matter about the character, economic thing, marital status,(or gender) as far as I can tell. The opposite of me; “exotic”??. 

That has led to some ramifications in me in regards to my perceptions of my wife and what I want from this relationship, where I find it, and how I approach my marriage. More or less resulting in a low sex drive from me now. I use her for physical needs, the emotional need part died.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Racer said:


> My wife’s PA OM’s were all a certain ethnicity and cultural background that I am not. I do not ever feel desired or attractive in her eyes. I simply can not be what it appears she is attracted to because I am a upper-middle class suburban white guy and she’s apparently into minority immigrants. Actually, I think it’s more of a immigrant/accent/different culture thing than skin color. Didn’t matter about the character, economic thing, marital status,(or gender) as far as I can tell. The opposite of me; “exotic”??.
> 
> That has led to some ramifications in me in regards to my perceptions of my wife and what I want from this relationship, where I find it, and how I approach my marriage. More or less resulting in a low sex drive from me now. I use her for physical needs, the emotional need part died.


I see how knowing this can diminish your sex drive and erection strength along with it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

"Let's face it - no one takes a crap in Shiny Sparkly Affair World! It's hard to compete with that."



Dang, there's another signature line. LOL


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Healer said:


> Good God - did you ask her to describe his co*k?


Oh hell no, she did it gratis, because she was feeling particularly entitled at the time. 

She also described his beautiful, deep green eyes, how she loved everything about him, and that in a room full of a thousand women, everyone would know they were together because he paid her that much attention.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Oh hell no, she did it gratis, because she was feeling particularly entitled at the time.
> 
> She also described his beautiful, deep green eyes, how she loved everything about him, and that in a room full of a thousand women, everyone would know they were together because he paid her that much attention.


I just hurled in my mouth.

A couple weeks ago, when I picked up my kids from the ex, she proceeded to tell me that her exOM was really "on the right track" and cleaning up his life - and she is "really proud of him". Never ceases to amaze. I didn't get angry. I said nothing. And she didn't say it to be cruel - she's just that stupid and thoughtless.

Wrong audience, sweetheart.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Healer said:


> I just hurled in my mouth.
> 
> *Yeah me too.. tip of the iceberg. She was REALLY entitled to hurt me as bad as she could. Yet... I love her and today she's totally remorseful. Lots of daggers sticking out of my heart still though, and triggers everywhere. Thanks, honey.*
> 
> ...


*No sh!t.... *


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

As a male BS I can relate my self esteem has been pretty bad since she was caught(OM was in better shape, taller), much of it has been about how big he was (she said average). The things he made her feel that I never will be able to has also been a sticking point, at times it feels like there are 3 people in the bed when we have sex (me, her & om). She has been very supportive in that area but I will still always have doubts, a month or so she liked something on facebook about my husband being hot and it made me sick.
Anyhow in my opinion for a male BS it is more of a physical betrayal and for woman more emotional, although both aspects (physical / emotional) are part of any of this just depends it affects people differently.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Oh lord, the three in bed thing has gotten me more times than I care to think about. 

I told her at one point, after sex, that I felt like I just tore off a piece from OM's girlfriend.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Oh lord, the three in bed thing has gotten me more times than I care to think about.
> 
> I told her at one point, after sex, that I felt like I just tore off a piece from OM's girlfriend.


Damn.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Oh lord, the three in bed thing has gotten me more times than I care to think about.
> 
> I told her at one point, after sex, that I felt like I just tore off a piece from OM's girlfriend.


I was trying to understand what your saying... Dang. That is true in these situations by the nature of the beast.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> "Let's face it - no one takes a crap in Shiny Sparkly Affair World! It's hard to compete with that."
> 
> 
> 
> Dang, there's another signature line. LOL


LOL - my thoughts exactly. Except I have no room left


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Stonewall said:


> deep deep depression
> 
> The feeling of being damaged goods like what wasn't I to you
> 
> ...


This was all pretty much my experience the first DD. I will also include holding my .45 in my hand late at night for about 30 minutes. I wanted the pain to stop that badly. I then called up my brother in law late at night and just gave it to him to keep or sell. long story short, after six years of failed R. And Other DD's. I cycled through these emotions much much faster. I didnt have to kick her out of the house. She just left my sons and I. What a mess she is. 18 months later, still working on divorcing her. She keeps stalling.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

treyvion said:


> I was trying to understand what your saying... Dang. That is true in these situations by the nature of the beast.


Oh well.... here's another weird part to it. Having the emotional turmoil in my head, and a surge in my pants, I started to look at her like a piece of meat, same as he did. She's hot, so it's not like she wouldn't turn any man on, but I needed to look at her that way just to have sex with her for quite some time.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

toonaive said:


> I will also include holding my .45 in my hand late at night for about 30 minutes. I wanted the pain to stop that badly.


Still have my .45s, and all the other guns... And I did think about it a few times. But I'll never be that weak; my spiritual path through life won't let me do it, either. But I have thought about it, yeah.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I have the recording of my wife and the XOM having sex multiple times in a few hour period. The moans suc*. I thought she was having anal and after bringing this up I guess once too often she said apologetically that he was huge. I am at least average if not more so and it does play on the mind. I have never had my wife moan like that. I have been really struggling the last five days with all this crap. At least last night we had a fairly long talk and my wife shared quite a bit. It helped. And I even got an answer to a nagging question by just allowing her to talk. 

I was really ready to move on from the M. It may seem strange to say this as I am in R, that I am now disappointed that my plans of dating other women never happened. I had some women who were interested in dating after D and I had really moved on in many ways in the M. When my wife turned and came clean I can honestly say it has bruised my ego, my self worth and I do feel inadequate but I also know that I am more than capable of finding other companions. But one of my issues right now is that I had contacts with women who were definetly interested in me and I will never know what might have been. All of them (including me) wanted to wait to after D to go any further then to say when the D is final then we can pursue dating. Some of you may relate, when I say that I feel like some cheap consulation prize and that i also feel like I am the one that is left with the person who gets sick, has bad days, has medical issues, etc and the XOM had her with really no baggage and she went out of her way to make him feel special.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> I was really ready to move on from the M. It may seem strange to say this as I am in R, that I am now disappointed that my plans of dating other women never happened. I had some women who were interested in dating after D and I had really moved on in many ways in the M. When my wife turned and came clean I can honestly say it has bruised my ego, my self worth and I do feel inadequate but I also know that I am more than capable of finding other companions. But one of my issues right now is that I had contacts with women who were definetly interested in me and I will never know what might have been. All of them (including me) wanted to wait to after D to go any further then to say when the D is final then we can pursue dating. Some of you may relate, when I say that I feel like some cheap consulation prize and that i also feel like I am the one that is left with the person who gets sick, has bad days, has medical issues, etc and the XOM had her with really no baggage and she went out of her way to make him feel special.


You should only R if that is what you want to do, totally and completely.

If you're having 2nd thoughts and want to date other women, you should drop the pretense at R and move on. You are the one who got the consolation prize. You could have a nice hot sexy new GF, and instead you have a wife who has already hurt you in the worst possible way.

You should only R if the only thing you want in the world is to be happy, together, forever _with your wife_ like you wanted when you got married.

Anything else is a waste of time and energy.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> Still have my .45s, and all the other guns... And I did think about it a few times. But I'll never be that weak; my spiritual path through life won't let me do it, either. But I have thought about it, yeah.


I have since moved on from that aweful time in my life, and eventually replaced my small collection. Overall, mentally and physically healthier and happier. I promised myself at that time, that I would never again allow myself to be around someone who could hurt me so deeply. Ultimately, I ALLOWED my AxW to do that. So, Yes. As a BS, men are capable of experiencing profound emotional pain.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Robsia said:


> You should only R if that is what you want to do, totally and completely.
> 
> If you're having 2nd thoughts and want to date other women, you should drop the pretense at R and move on. You are the one who got the consolation prize. You could have a nice hot sexy new GF, and instead you have a wife who has already hurt you in the worst possible way.
> 
> ...


I like the way you put things. The point I was trying to make is that before my wife came clean, confessed and seems very sincere in her desire to make things right, I had set my mind on a future without my wife. And her confession happened about a month ago, after years of betrayal. Right now I do not know what I want to do completely and totally. My wife has told me that she fears one day I may not come home. I have had those moments more than once even over the past several days of not wanting to come home. When I was in combat and things went to hel* I did not have the option of walking away, grabbing a beer and soak in a hot tub. There were days where I had to get guys ready to go back out on mission after their buddy was killed. I do have that option when it comes to the M. I can walk away. But it will not take the pain away. Right now happiness can wait. I will not be able to be happy any time soon even if I left her. I do believe it is achievable but I will have to walk through a little hel* first.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> I like the way you put things. The point I was trying to make is that before my wife came clean, confessed and seems very sincere in her desire to make things right, I had set my mind on a future without my wife. And her confession happened about a month ago, after years of betrayal. Right now I do not know what I want to do completely and totally. My wife has told me that she fears one day I may not come home. I have had those moments more than once even over the past several days of not wanting to come home. When I was in combat and things went to hel* I did not have the option of walking away, grabbing a beer and soak in a hot tub. There were days where I had to get guys ready to go back out on mission after their buddy was killed. I do have that option when it comes to the M. I can walk away. But it will not take the pain away. Right now happiness can wait. I will not be able to be happy any time soon even if I left her. I do believe it is achievable but I will have to walk through a little hel* first.


I see where you are - very early on in the process. You're right, it's too early to make a decision.

I'm four months on from D-day 1, and only a month on from D-day 2, when I found out he had 2 affairs, not just the one I knew about, and also he'd still been in contact with a woman from a dating site, SINCE D-day 1, although he swears he never met her since then. I have Find My Friends on both our phones, so I do know exactly where he has been since March, so I have to believe him on that one.

Anyway, I digress.

After Dday 1 the thought of dating other men did not make me excited. The thought of starting all over again, trying to find someone else with whom I had that connection I'd found with my WH made me feel physically sick.

The only thing I want - the only thing I ever wanted - was for us to be together, and happy, forever.

And even knowing that, I still haven't fully committed to R. All I can tell him is that if he keeps on doing what he is doing, then it is a strong possibility. His behaviour determines whether we R or D.

I just want my husband and my marriage back, the way I always wanted it to be.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Oh lord, the three in bed thing has gotten me more times than I care to think about.
> 
> I told her at one point, after sex, that I felt like I just tore off a piece from OM's girlfriend.


That's true. It often does feel like there's more than 2 people. 

It doesn't really help when you've read things FWW said to OM they she NEVER said to you. 

I think most of them say "oh he wasn't really all that good looking." It's like, yea, okay, but that isn't what you told him lol. And by the sheer volume of times you've seen this guy naked, I can't imagine you didn't like it. 

100% of WSs put more thought, effort, and attention into their relationships with OM/OW than they ever did with you. From grooming before hand to the wall of texts sent. They always had to look their best for these OM of course. For you? Heh yea right.

When I realized how "special" it must have been for FWW to go through ALLLL those hoops just to bang OM for a couple hours it makes me upchuck in my mouth. Honest to goodness. Since we met she never put that much effort into our relationship. What a fool I was. 

It's funny how WWs owe these OM nothing yet treat them a million times better. Yet the ones they actually owe something to, they treat like dirt.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

awake1 said:


> That's true. It often does feel like there's more than 2 people.
> 
> It doesn't really help when you've read things FWW said to OM they she NEVER said to you.
> 
> ...


Yes, that was one of the things that hurt the most. He put all this time and energy and money (hotels, dates, etc) into getting into these OWs' pants, when he had me the whole time.

What was so magic about their pussies?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Oh hell no, she did it gratis, because she was feeling particularly entitled at the time.
> 
> She also described his beautiful, deep green eyes, how she loved everything about him, and that in a room full of a thousand women, everyone would know they were together because he paid her that much attention.


I'd have reminded her that in that room full of a thousand women, if you were there, they wouldn't even notice him or her because they'd all be throwing themselves at you... let her know she traded down and let herself become another mans playmate because he threw a few compliments her way...

Loved everything about him? I'd ask if she loved that he's a liar and a cheater, and remind her that he's being as honest with her as she's being with him... 

Also.. 'unique' means, creepy small and odd bend to the left. In case you didn't urban dictionary it.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

awake1 said:


> 100% of WSs put more thought, effort, and attention into their relationships with OM/OW than they ever did with you. From grooming before hand to the wall of texts sent. They always had to look their best for these OM of course. For you? Heh yea right.
> 
> When I realized how "special" it must have been for FWW to go through ALLLL those hoops just to bang OM for a couple hours it makes me upchuck in my mouth. Honest to goodness. Since we met she never put that much effort into our relationship. What a fool I was..


Oh hell yes... It's also what makes R very difficult. The idea that for him, she'd drive 45 minutes across town, not to mention the grooming and primping she'd do prior just to spend a half hour with him after talking to him all day long really gets me. For that loser... seriously. And they didn’t even have sex every time. Sometimes it was just to share lunch or a coffee. The excuses and hoops she’d do just for some time together was amazing.

And me? She hasn't swung by my office to take me to lunch in 8 years... and I'm two miles away from our house and 15 minutes from her work. It hurts just to know it doesn’t cross her mind... like ever! I’m such a burden. Dress up for me? Nope. I get the sloth cloth attire... oooh, sexy! Hardly any effort at all like I’m not worth it and he was.. 

It is very devaluing...


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

awake1 said:


> That's true. It often does feel like there's more than 2 people.
> 
> It doesn't really help when you've read things FWW said to OM they she NEVER said to you.
> 
> ...


They take you for granted... you are comfortable, so there's no need to groom for you.. You can say 'i love you', they think you have to say that, you don't mean it... if he says it, they think 'he's so sweet, I feel special'.... 

They have to put on a show for OM, because in Fantasy world, there can be no bad breath or hairy thighs... He does the same for her, puts on his best t-shirt and jeans and wears his Axe spray for her.. Precious isn't it?


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

russell28 said:


> I'd have reminded her that in that room full of a thousand women, if you were there, they wouldn't even notice him or her because they'd all be throwing themselves at you... let her know she traded down and let herself become another mans playmate because he threw a few compliments her way...
> 
> Loved everything about him? I'd ask if she loved that he's a liar and a cheater, and remind her that he's being as honest with her as she's being with him...
> 
> Also.. 'unique' means, creepy small and odd bend to the left. In case you didn't urban dictionary it.


Wish I'd've had you talking in a remote earpiece back when she was shanking me with that crap. When she gets up her Irish rage, there's no stopping her. I was completely taken aback at the time. It's mostly the unforgettable ass comment that gets me, frankly. I have no insecurities about the size of my unit, but I hate my butt lol.

And yeah, putting some pieces together from other, seemingly unrelated conversations (but I knew who she was talking about), his unit was small. But he/she called it his little green eyed monster. Yeesh. TMI, reading through their 2000 emails (yes I read every. single. one. of. them.).


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Robsia said:


> I see where you are - very early on in the process. You're right, it's too early to make a decision.
> 
> I'm four months on from D-day 1, and only a month on from D-day 2, when I found out he had 2 affairs, not just the one I knew about, and also he'd still been in contact with a woman from a dating site, SINCE D-day 1, although he swears he never met her since then. I have Find My Friends on both our phones, so I do know exactly where he has been since March, so I have to believe him on that one.
> 
> ...


Our situations sound similar. One month out from dday 2, when I cracked her phone and discovered it was a pa and not the ea she swore it was. The OM was an addict, like her, and twenty years older than me. I was deeply depressed at the time, but still wonder what he had that I didn't. Just had a trigger today, actually. Came across a file at work referencing the day that they were together. Upsetting. I don't know if I can fully commit anymore. She's trying hard, or seems to be, but I just don't know. The marriage I had, the woman I had an unyielding love for, are both gone. Now whenever I see a hotel in our town, I wonder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Racer said:


> Oh hell yes... It's also what makes R very difficult. The idea that for him, she'd drive 45 minutes across town, not to mention the grooming and primping she'd do prior just to spend a half hour with him after talking to him all day long really gets me. For that loser... seriously. And they didn’t even have sex every time. Sometimes it was just to share lunch or a coffee. The excuses and hoops she’d do just for some time together was amazing.


I feel your pain. 


Racer said:


> I’m such a burden. Dress up for me? Nope. I get the sloth cloth attire... oooh, sexy!  Hardly any effort at all like I’m not worth it and he was..
> 
> It is very devaluing...


It's because she figures you'll always be there. They'll lie and tell you they're going out or working late, knowing you'll buy the lie. Toilets flush themselves in fantasy land. 

The OM gets "Oh love I missed you!" 

We get "pick up bread on your way home." 

You reminded me why I have a right to be bitter lol

Edited my post for clarity


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

I honestly think my wife cheated because her BFF was cheating on her husband. Her first ons was a chubby little azz hole 10 years younger.ons #2 was a fat ****er a couple years older. Both ugly as sin. But hey if ya wanna get lucky I guess you jump on the first thing that grabs your ass and tells you that your hot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

I get mad as hell thinking about it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It hurts like hell, doesn't it? 

When I found out I actually wished I had died before she had the opportunity to cheat on me.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Racer said:


> Oh hell yes... It's also what makes R very difficult. The idea that for him, she'd drive 45 minutes across town, not to mention the grooming and primping she'd do prior just to spend a half hour with him after talking to him all day long really gets me. For that loser... seriously. And they didn’t even have sex every time. Sometimes it was just to share lunch or a coffee. The excuses and hoops she’d do just for some time together was amazing.
> 
> And me? She hasn't swung by my office to take me to lunch in 8 years... and I'm two miles away from our house and 15 minutes from her work. It hurts just to know it doesn’t cross her mind... like ever! I’m such a burden. Dress up for me? Nope. I get the sloth cloth attire... oooh, sexy! Hardly any effort at all like I’m not worth it and he was..
> 
> It is very devaluing...


Man you hit it. Mine would take an hour to primp up and sometimes drive over an hour. Like yours, my wife never stopped by the office. The XOM never drove anywhere. She picked him up, drove him to hotels, and then home. 

We were talking last night about the A and she said he was fun to be with. I responded. Yea, the only time you were together you were naked having sex. Did you go out to dinner? No. Shopping together? No. Did he ever see you in a bad mood? No Sick? No. She said I just wish I could take it all back. 

At least now she is trying to do everything to make it right.


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Oh, got it. That makes sense. I have a couple of good guy buddies at work that have told me that men often trade down during affairs. Apparently that's true for women as well. Makes no sense to me, going out for dog food when I have prime rib at home.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl: Ain't that the truth!


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> I like the way you put things. The point I was trying to make is that before my wife came clean, confessed and seems very sincere in her desire to make things right, I had set my mind on a future without my wife. And her confession happened about a month ago, after years of betrayal. Right now I do not know what I want to do completely and totally. My wife has told me that she fears one day I may not come home. I have had those moments more than once even over the past several days of not wanting to come home. When I was in combat and things went to hel* I did not have the option of walking away, grabbing a beer and soak in a hot tub. There were days where I had to get guys ready to go back out on mission after their buddy was killed. I do have that option when it comes to the M. I can walk away. But it will not take the pain away. Right now happiness can wait. I will not be able to be happy any time soon even if I left her. I do believe it is achievable but I will have to walk through a little hel* first.


Allow me to put a particular bee in your bonnet. Bzz.

You have touched on one of the prime reasons I rarely, rarely advocate reconciliation. This doubt you're feeling, the nagging sensation in your brain is the direct result of your realization that you can do better. There is something out there. Something amazing; something scary, something liberating and exciting. 

Potential. 

Several months after Julie left I was at my parents' house. I was still feeling so raw, and so depressed and desperate. I cried out and asked "Who in this world is going to want to date a 31 year old divorced preacher?" 

My mother, my poor sweet mother, who deserved none of the pain that my piece of sh%t ex inflicted on her, looked at me and smiled, and said:

"You have no idea." 

And she was right. 

In less than six months I had 19-year olds crawling all over me. I'm smart, educated, fun, attractive, and compassionate. I was friggin' catnip to the female race. I was taking two semesters at Pittsburgh University and they came after me. 

The point is that you will feel this fear, this horrible inadequacy until you get out there and see and feel for yourself that it's a lie. 

And worst case scenario (and I do mean worst), by divorcing and moving on, you give your spouse time and space to think about what they've done. What they've thrown away. If she realizes that she's made a huge mistake, who's to say that you can't try it again with her? Date again and see if she can transform into marriage material? 

Assuming you would want to get back with her. And I can promise you, you won't. 

Dude. Remember.

Potential.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> Man you hit it. Mine would take an hour to primp up and sometimes drive over an hour. Like yours, my wife never stopped by the office. The XOM never drove anywhere. She picked him up, drove him to hotels, and then home.
> 
> We were talking last night about the A and she said he was fun to be with. I responded. Yea, the only time you were together you were naked having sex. Did you go out to dinner? No. Shopping together? No. Did he ever see you in a bad mood? No Sick? No. She said I just wish I could take it all back.
> 
> At least now she is trying to do everything to make it right.


Exactly.. so much fun because they are getting coffee and a quickie, or a day of fun and sex with no worries of bills, children needing to be picked up, chores needing to be done... It's all fun and games, pure love like you're a child living at home with your parents sneaking around because they don't want you to see your boyfriend, although in this case the parent is your husband... and the boyfriend is some creepy old maintenance man from work. It took me about two seconds to point out that this man was never REALLY there for her.. Where was he for the birth of our three children, when she was operated on, when our son needed hearing aids, when our daughter was having trouble with drugs and school? Graduations, Deaths of relatives, etc.. Where? At home with his girlfriend.. fooling her into thinking he's being faithful and a good boyfriend. 


As for trading down.. It's no contest. I'm better looking.. a better father (cheated on first wife so not with family).. I make six figures, I'm guessing his janitor job doesn't pay as well. I own a house on a dead end street with a pond and deer in the back yard.. He lives in his GFs apartment. So yea, he got a big ego boost because he had my wife.. but at the end of the day, he's still a pathetic loser in life. I made a little rhyme there.


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

russell28 said:


> Exactly.. so much fun because they are getting coffee and a quickie, or a day of fun and sex with no worries of bills, children needing to be picked up, chores needing to be done... It's all fun and games, pure love like you're a child living at home with your parents sneaking around because they don't want you to see your boyfriend, although in this case the parent is your husband... and the boyfriend is some creepy old maintenance man from work. It took me about two seconds to point out that this man was never REALLY there for her.. Where was he for the birth of our three children, when she was operated on, when our son needed hearing aids, when our daughter was having trouble with drugs and school? Graduations, Deaths of relatives, etc.. Where? At home with his girlfriend.. fooling her into thinking he's being faithful and a good boyfriend.
> 
> 
> As for trading down.. It's no contest. I'm better looking.. a better father (cheated on first wife so not with family).. I make six figures, I'm guessing his janitor job doesn't pay as well. I own a house on a dead end street with a pond and deer in the back yard.. He lives in his GFs apartment. So yea, he got a big ego boost because he had my wife.. but at the end of the day, he's still a pathetic loser in life. I made a little rhyme there.


:iagree: I have read many terms used for this, rose colored goggles, FOG of one sort or another... They are plain and simple, out of touch with reality! You can't wake someone living in a fantasy, unless they are willing to wake up.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Stonewall said:


> deep deep depression
> 
> The feeling of being damaged goods like what wasn't I to you
> 
> ...


Did your wife cheat on you? I've read all your threads and you never mentioned it. When will you share your story?


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## Zak68 (Feb 14, 2012)

I got hit from all side on this one. 

She was an alcoholic at the time and he told her she wasn't a drunk just to make me be the bad guy.

He was my best friend.

She asked before their 1st time if he'd done this before and he said yes. She said the first time was awkward so they immediately scheduled the next time "to take the pressure off"

I'm not overly gifted, pretty run of the mill and hip injury early in life means I have stamina issues, but sex has always been more than that between us and I try to make it up in other ways. Still with her four years after D-Day and every time we have sex I think about my inadequecy.

She's meet him for lunch. Found out on Valentine's day when I was surprising her with flowers at work he was giving it to her over lunch.

Basically, all the attention and care I put into loving her and trying to help her be sober was just thrown in my face. At this point in life I am just numb. I don't go out of my way. If she doesn't like it, move out. She's getting a 2nd chance she never deserved. I appreciate she's sober now for almost four years in ways she's a different person. I don't trust her and most likely never will again.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Funny thing, nowadays my wife tells me that she's terrified that I will leave her. She never told me about the PA part of her affair, and I reckon she never would have. But knowing now, a couple years later, hasn't changed my mindset about wanting a clean relationship. So frankly, I'm into R, but am keeping a very close watch on her bahavior, how she responds to certain things.... it's a constant test and if she hasn't figured that out, she will. 

I love her, and have loved her for a long time. But the thought of her sharing her body with that POSOM, two weeks after taking my ring, is something I'm not sure I can ever get over.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Stonewall said:


> The feeling of being utterly alone even if someone is around
> 
> The feeling of a small bit of innocence that I had left from childhood completely destroyed
> 
> That feeling that no matter what went bad in the world, she and I were in this together gone and lost forever


I cant believe i missed this post before.

I really miss that feeling that someone has my back no matter what. That i have someone who is my partner and backup unconditionally. No matter what happened i wasnt alone.

It was US vs the world. Now its me vs the world. I dont have someone who has my back through thick and thin.

I will NEVER have that feeling again. I miss that a lot. 

I felt that lonliness too. Its felt like suffocation at times. Welp guess the upside is its like breaking a bone. Youll heal stronger.
_Posted via Mobile Device [size]_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Zak68 said:


> I got hit from all side on this one.
> 
> She was an alcoholic at the time and he told her she wasn't a drunk just to make me be the bad guy.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a miserable existence, brother. May I ask why you are still with her?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

awake1 said:


> I cant believe i missed this post before.
> 
> I really miss that feeling that someone has my back no matter what. That i have someone who is my partner and backup unconditionally. No matter what happened i wasnt alone.
> 
> ...


_

I found that all those feelings went away for me after Dday - like it was all a lie and we never really were a united front. It was a sham. Other people saw it, but I didn't. So I guess in some ways I feel like a fool. I feel naive.

But I also feel liberated, and like my eyes are open now. I feel like this is chapter 2, and I feel like a man now...not just a being.

At first I was hell bent on going after women - obviously to validate myself. Being cheated on by your wife is pretty goddamn emasculating. 

Now I'm focused on me, being a better man and father. 

Still hurts like hell a lot of the time though._


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

It almost seems as if the person who had the affair more often trades down, and the person who was betrayed trades up. This does make sense in a way because anyone who cheats has a much lower value and will likely attract someone of equal value while the betrayed learns from it, maintains their value, and has the experience of the failed marriage and what went wrong, and can find the things in a partner that were missing.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> It almost seems as if the person who had the affair more often trades down, and the person who was betrayed trades up. This does make sense in a way because anyone who cheats has a much lower value and will likely attract someone of equal value while the betrayed learns from it, maintains their value, and has the experience of the failed marriage and what went wrong, and can find the things in a partner that were missing.


Dead on.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think as part of R, one of conditions is that the WW must agree and follow through to put as much or more effort in the BS.

She must put as much effort into grooming , dressing, make up,
She must put as much effort into texting, reaching out, etc
She must put effort into driving to meet you, finding you etc.
Btw, same goes for sex and sex acts

If she refuses to put as much effort into you as she did the OM, then frankly move on. Life is much to valuable to ever accept less than what the OM got.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> I think as part of R, one of conditions is that the WW must agree and follow through to put as much or more effort in the BS.
> 
> She must put as much effort into grooming , dressing, make up,
> She must put as much effort into texting, reaching out, etc
> ...


Hard to know what all she did to groom for him, but she needs to take it up a notch. Mine took it up a notch for me while she was still in it with OM. But looking back, it was just to insulate herself from the feelings she still had for him. I bought her lingerie; she sent him pictures of herself in them. Pictures I took.. lordy lord.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Shaggy said:


> I think as part of R, one of conditions is that the WW must agree and follow through to put as much or more effort in the BS.
> 
> She must put as much effort into grooming , dressing, make up,
> She must put as much effort into texting, reaching out, etc
> ...


Disagree sort of. Be careful of getting what you wish for. It’s triggery when your WW says things you know she told the OM. It rips that scab off.... it hurts more than helps. So whatever she does, it needs to be something special about our relationship, not associated with their relationship or how she was. It’s about that effort... And since your relationship is no longer about sex (you bought the cow and had those days too when she was in her prime), the possibilities of areas where she’s valued is a much broader spectrum. How about little things like watching the kids so you can enjoy the game and friends for once... That’s more important than whether she can squeeze into a thong.

You want the same level of effort, not the same actions that will trigger you. Short term, you need to feel you are desired and wanted that way still... but in the big picture, you want to know you are valued and appreciated for who you are as a whole. And you like more than just the sex I hope. That shouldn’t be the only area of focus.

I’ve seen some sicker hurt BH’s do that as ‘punishment’ by making their WW’s reenact scenes with the OM with them instead. Also read dirty text, send pics and so forth. I’ve not ever seen that turn out well since it tends to rip wounds open on both sides. It needs to set your relationship apart as something unique.


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

I almost feel insulted when I think about who my W had her affair with. I'm attractive, tall, and in shape. I'm in my late 20's and college aged girls are interested in me sometimes. And she goes and have an affair with some 52 year old short pudgy balding SOB? In addition to the crippled pride and self esteem and the loss of trust, there insulted feeling I have. Like WTF did you see in him? The whole downgrading affair thing is like salt to a open wound.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Refuse to be played said:


> I almost feel insulted when I think about who my W had her affair with. I'm attractive, tall, and in shape. I'm in my late 20's and college aged girls are interested in me sometimes. And she goes and have an affair with some 52 year old short pudgy balding SOB? In addition to the crippled pride and self esteem and the loss of trust, there insulted feeling I have. Like WTF did you see in him? The whole downgrading affair thing is like salt to a open wound.


That's normal. My ww chose to be with a married man twenty years older than me, who was also a former addict. I helped her hold together through multiple withdrawals, and personal tragedies. When I was at my darkest, deep depression, she went off and had a physical affair. It's still hard to write that. It's apropos that there is a thread titled my sick need to know. I post on TAM often, read it through out the day, and I still don't know why. It's like part of me wants to hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

Refuse to be played said:


> I almost feel insulted when I think about who my W had her affair with. I'm attractive, tall, and in shape. I'm in my late 20's and college aged girls are interested in me sometimes. And she goes and have an affair with some 52 year old short pudgy balding SOB? In addition to the crippled pride and self esteem and the loss of trust, there insulted feeling I have. Like WTF did you see in him? The whole downgrading affair thing is like salt to a open wound.


It's usually not the OM's physical attributes, it's what he does for your WW. He can be a zero, but if he provides what your WW wants, well we have a problem.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

jay_gatsby said:


> It's usually not the OM's physical attributes, it's what he does for your WW. He can be a zero, but if he provides what your WW wants, well we have a problem.


He provided a fantasy life that lead my WW to disaster. I could not compete with it and you know what. That is not my problem. Kharma can be a rel B****


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> I think as part of R, one of conditions is that the WW must agree and follow through to put as much or more effort in the BS.
> 
> She must put as much effort into grooming , dressing, make up,
> She must put as much effort into texting, reaching out, etc
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

This is what I demanded as part of my condition for R...except for the sex part since they didn't have the chance to take it physical. She gave herself completely and emotionally for her OM, she could do *NO LESS* for me. 

Because I was done. It was only after 8 months of her busting her ass to win me back that I decided to R, and even then, it took me a while to reconnect. I reminded her that I divorced my first wife for cheating on me, and that she's lucky to get this chance. She promised me when we first married, that she would never do to me what my first wife did. If she had taken it physical, R would not even be on the table or even considered. I will not be played again.

I was angry. Very, very angry.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

MovingAhead said:


> He provided a fantasy life that lead my WW to disaster. I could not compete with it and you know what. That is not my problem. Kharma can be a rel B****


:iagree:

Any jerk can be Prince Charming, the shoulder to cry on, the sounding board. 

_"Oh, your husband did that? If you were mine, I'd shower you with all the love and affection."_

It goes on and on.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> I think as part of R, one of conditions is that the WW must agree and follow through to put as much or more effort in the BS.
> 
> She must put as much effort into grooming , dressing, make up,
> She must put as much effort into texting, reaching out, etc
> ...


But if it was fog / fantasy ea/pa what's the point of expecting your WS to put on an act to match it. Know what I mean? I don't see the point though - it can't be maintained. The excitement factor is missing for starters. TBH I'd wouldn't mind her giving me a smidgen of the PA shenanigans. Isn't going to happen though.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Any jerk can be Prince Charming, the shoulder to cry on, the sounding board.
> 
> ...


Too right LM. I read one e-mail where the POSOM said that she, my WS, deserved better. What a suck in. At least I know what to look for now - if I'm that desperate for a f**k.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Horizon said:


> Too right LM. I read one e-mail where the POSOM said that she, my WS, deserved better. What a suck in. At least I know what to look for now - if I'm that desperate for a f**k.


Standard script used on people's wives.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Standard script used on people's wives.


That one is right after 'doesn't appreciate you' in the cheaters handbook... chapter 1.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

russell28 said:


> That one is right after 'doesn't appreciate you' in the cheaters handbook... chapter 1.


"doesn't appreciate you" - for accepting it?

Those cheaters prey on the "fence riders" in marriage, feeding their entitlement side.

Though I know if I have a wife and she's going to a GNO, that guys will likely buy her drinks at the bar, I guess I'm OK with that.

They will hit on her, but it's up to her to let them know she's just having fun with the ladies and is happily in a relationship with me.

I don't even mind them dancing.

I'd do it too.

I'm not so sure an R Kelly "bump N grind" is going to work very well though...


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Though I know if I have a wife and she's going to a GNO, that guys will likely buy her drinks at the bar, I guess I'm OK with that.
> 
> They will hit on her, but it's up to her to let them know she's just having fun with the ladies and is happily in a relationship with me.
> 
> ...


If I was going on a GNO at a bar with my friends, I would be there to be with them, not to get hit on by men.

I enjoy dancing and the club environment, and I can control myself enough so that I don't fall on the first c0ck I see.

I would not accept a drink from a man, nor would I dance with a man. It's not appropriate.

I actually disagree with the majority opinion that all women who go to clubs have to be going there to get men. When I was single, yes. But not now. I do enjoy getting tiddly, dancing to loud music and going out.

If I'm being brutally honest (Aspie here, so I'm always brutally honest) yes it is nice to get male attention - but I can enjoy being admired from afar and nicely reject all comers, knowing my H is at home. I'd far rather go home to him, than go off with anyone else.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Robsia said:


> If I was going on a GNO at a bar with my friends, I would be there to be with them, not to get hit on by men.
> 
> I enjoy dancing and the club environment, and I can control myself enough so that I don't fall on the first c0ck I see.
> 
> ...


Good to read.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Um, no girl of mine is going to dance with anyone else unless I know the person extremely well. 

GNO is poison to marriages.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Vanguard said:


> Um, no girl of mine is going to dance with anyone else unless I know the person extremely well.
> 
> GNO is poison to marriages.


I don't know. I think if you're not a cheater, they're fine. A cheater cheats because they are a cheater, not because of the environment. 

I spent a lot of time in bars as a gigging musician. I had tons of opportunity. Guess what? Never cheated.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Horizon said:


> Too right LM. I read one e-mail where the POSOM said that she, my WS, deserved better. What a suck in. At least I know what to look for now - if I'm that desperate for a f**k.


One of FWWs OM lived 2 continents away and told her to leave me, and he would take care of her. He said she shouldn't be with someone who tells her who she can and cant talk to. No word on whether he was moving here or vice versa, or what they would tell the other, other men. 

How desperate do you need to be that you're making platitudes of love 1000 miles away? 

I honestly felt bad for a couple of them. It's like sir, if you're that lonely and desperate you really really need to get out more. I am certain there is a woman for you on your continent (who isn't married.) 

Or maybe they're that desperate BECAUSE they've gone out and simply lack the social skills to talk to other humans face to face. 

Regardless you're right. Tell a married woman how bad the other guy is, how beautiful they are, how attractive. Tell her you love her like no other. etc etc. That seems to be how it's done. Pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel tbh. Among those with the potential to cheat, you only need the right mix of affair partner, rationalization, and opportunity.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ScorchedEarth said:


> I was going to post this in another thread, but it felt too much like threadjacking. The basic gist of the other thread is how women feel ugly after their husbands cheat.
> 
> I wonder what guys think when they get cheated on? With women, we always gravitate to the reason being a matter of physical appearance. What do guys think? Do they do the "looks" comparison? Or is it a sex thing? Do you wonder if he is well endowed? Has a better career? What's the reason that men tend to gravitate to, to explain the affair?


For a while after her affair ended I had difficulty in maintaining an erection. I just felt so bloody inadequate.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> For a while after her affair ended I had difficulty in maintaining an erection. I just felt so bloody inadequate.


He steals your spirit through her, her feedback to you is he was worth more than you and worth the sexual act. He was dominant. This is evident in her reduced desire, feedback and body language, and trickle truthing. Plus your psychology. The best thing you can do is lay with someone who values you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

treyvion said:


> He steals your spirit through her, her feedback to you is he was worth more than you and worth the sexual act. He was dominant. This is evident in her reduced desire, feedback and body language, and trickle truthing. Plus your psychology.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My FWW was hypersexual when she started cheating (at least going by the story it lines up.)

Too bad it was because of an OM. 

And yea, their actions pretty well demonstrate that this other guy, whoever he is, held more value to her. 

I'm glad this caused changes in me. I was a fool. It's a painful experience, but it will teach you all kinds of things about life.

This whole thing drove me to reexamine myself and make changes to have a better life.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Robsia said:


> If I'm being brutally honest (Aspie here, so I'm always brutally honest) *yes it is nice to get male attention* - but I can enjoy being admired from afar and nicely reject all comers, knowing my H is at home. I'd far rather go home to him, than go off with anyone else.


And those are the operative words. So many women who end up WWs thought they could just keep up their boundaries. So you don't accept drinks from other men. What about drinks that you or your friends buy? This is the beginning of the slippery slope, that you'll be okay with dancing on the edge. 

Then what happens one day when you go out with your wing women when you're bored from the marriage, or you've had one too many and some guy who's admiring you starts talking to you, or your friends start having affairs, or egging you on. You will start moving your boundaries farther and farther. 

Next thing you know, it will be:


Just one drink, it can't hurt.
Just talking, talking as friends
Giving your number to a man, what can it hurt? You're just saying hi, being friendly, and talking as friends
Just meeting for coffee to talk, what can it hurt? You're just being friendly
Just having dinner with your friend, its just friendship right?

Get the picture? Next thing you know, you're devoting more time and energy on your friend and not realizing you're becoming emotionally attached to this man, while you're husband starts to wonder why you're becoming more distant. 

Sure, not all go out with the specific intention of getting a man, many start slipping down the slippery slope and slowly moving their boundaries until the line is crossed. Then it will be:

"We didn't mean for it to happen, it just happened"


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> And those are the operative words. So many women who end up WWs thought they could just keep up their boundaries. So you don't accept drinks from other men. What about drinks that you or your friends buy? This is the beginning of the slippery slope, that you'll be okay with dancing on the edge.
> 
> Then what happens one day when you go out with your wing women when you're bored from the marriage, or you've had one too many and some guy who's admiring you starts talking to you, or your friends start having affairs, or egging you on. You will start moving your boundaries farther and farther.
> 
> ...


You've described how it happens, man or woman. Plus just continuing to run towards this environment where it happens, the energy, the mind images of all those hookups and the alcohol ontology of it all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

awake1 said:


> I feel your pain.
> 
> 
> It's because she figures you'll always be there. They'll lie and tell you they're going out or working late, knowing you'll buy the lie. Toilets flush themselves in fantasy land.
> ...


LOL! That's what I got just this Friday past. The only communication with my wife all day was for her to sms me "get a tin of crushed tomatoes from the supermarket on the way home"


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Robsia said:


> If I was going on a GNO at a bar with my friends, I would be there to be with them, not to get hit on by men.
> 
> I enjoy dancing and the club environment, and I can control myself enough so that I don't fall on the first c0ck I see.
> 
> ...


Why is it always women who have this need to get pissed at clubs & pubs even when they are mothers, and married.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Horizon said:


> But if it was fog / fantasy ea/pa what's the point of expecting your WS to put on an act to match it. Know what I mean? I don't see the point though - it can't be maintained. The excitement factor is missing for starters. TBH I'd wouldn't mind her giving me a smidgen of the PA shenanigans. Isn't going to happen though.


Alert alert alert - this I'd a great major point you raised

However I think you came to the wrong conclusion.

Yes, much of what the WW does during the affair is driven by excitement. That's why is not fake or scripted, she's doing it entirely because she is engaged and putting effort into the relationship.

And the biggest change that must be done for a successful R is for her to commit and follow through on putting that same effort into the marriage, and keep doing it going forward.

You should not accept her slacking off and getting comfortable and lazy and worst of all no longer valuing and respecting her marriage.

In many cases that's the course the marriage took the first time from dating to cheating. Progressively less commitment, less interest, and less valuing.

Hiding her to higher standards of grooming, dressing, and emotional engagement helps - its not actually about making her repeat what she did for the OM, It's entirely about making her live up to or exceed the actual standards she set for herself during the affair.

Meaning, she herself chose a set of actions to demonstrate how much she valued and wanted the OM. She herself chose the grooming, the dressing, etc. she set the bar for the level of passion and emotional commitment to put into a relationship set values.

So in the end it's about setting the bar at the level she set it at, and calling her out when she slacks off.

It's like having someone who works for you. After they start the job, you as a boss can either set the bar progressively lower and accept less and less, or progressively higher and accept more and more.

Despite gut logic, people are actually happier if the bar is set higher , so long as its consistent , fair and compassionate, and is set based on upon things of value and not make work.

The same goes in your marriage. If you accept your partner slipping slowly into nit valuing you, not putting effort into the marriage,and not doing the acts that they themselves believe in as ways of showing commitment, value and respect, over time they will feel unvalued, unrespected, etc.

So the expectation and calling out when the WW slacks off is actually a long term defensive strategy.

Or to put it another way - they get out of the marriage what they put in. If you let them lower their investment lower and lower, then they are getting less and less back.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Robsia said:


> If I was going on a GNO at a bar with my friends, I would be there to be with them, not to get hit on by men.
> 
> I enjoy dancing and the club environment, and I can control myself enough so that I don't fall on the first c0ck I see.
> 
> ...



Robesia,


It's not that you will fall on the first one you see.

It's entirely that you will fall on the one special one that to you stands out from the rest.

The going to meat markets worry is that it presents the spouse with many many more opportunities to run into that one special one that stands out to her, and if her husband is not there then the opportunity arises for her to allow the special guy more and more time to show her how special he is.


Before each of met our spouses, they were strangers to us. Not anymore special than anyone else on the planet. Yet, through spending time one-on-one we develop feelings and deep attractions to be with them.

Did you intend to marry the person you are with before you said your first word to them?

Having your spouse go to a place filled with members of the opposite sex looking to impress them and hook up is introducing a very potentially dangerous situation. The men at clubs are not there to only dance, despite what any of them might say.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

awake1 said:


> How desperate do you need to be that you're making platitudes of love 1000 miles away?


There's this unconscious belief that, somehow, all OMs are more manly than BHs. But when I see silly sh!t like this, it becomes clear that this isn't always the case at all. there's a class of men out there who simply cannot compete for the attention and against the guard of attractive available women. So they've figured out that some married women are much easier targets.

They essentially run what I call cuttlefish game or Oprah game on insecure married women until they get laid. A less dominant cuttlefish will mimic female cuttlefish in order to mate with them covertly. In human society there is a class of males who do things like quote Oprah while plying married women with alcohol.

I felt totally emasculated when I discovered my fiance's cheating. Until I came across his texts to her and realized what a complete fairy this "man" was. Now the only emasculation I feel was for the fact that I was with my ex for so long. If that's what she wanted, then why was she with me? Unless I'm not as grounded and pragmatic as I think I am.


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## blackdiamonds (Jun 26, 2013)

Healer said:


> My stbxw's exOM is hideous (not just saying that - he looks like a troll) and a complete and utter step (more like 1000 stories) down. Seemed to be a reflection of how she viewed herself.
> 
> Some trade up, some trade waaaaaay down.


My BH asked me what the OM looked like and his performance in the sack to compare on DDay. OM was a total downgrade. He was tall, lanky and had a face good enough for radio. His performance was so-so and he wasn't that big downstairs. The only one up OM had was a job (because at the time of the affair BH was unemployed due to issues with his bg and finding regular work). It didn't help either that OM turned out to be a total @$$hole after I saw him for what he really was. Labcoat, what you describe about OM that prey on unavailable women out of desperation and the like described OM for me. Except I was too blind to see that at the time.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

blackdiamonds said:


> My BH asked me what the OM looked like and his performance in the sack to compare on DDay. OM was a total downgrade. He was tall, lanky and had a face good enough for radio. His performance was so-so and he wasn't that big downstairs. The only one up OM had was a job (because at the time of the affair BH was unemployed due to issues with his bg and finding regular work). It didn't help either that OM turned out to be a total @$$hole after I saw him for what he really was. Labcoat, what you describe about OM that prey on unavailable women out of desperation and the like described OM for me. Except I was too blind to see that at the time.


What were you blinded by? Inexperience? Too many Lifetime movies? Insecurity?

I'm genuinely curious.

After dday, I actually conducted a social experiment when out at the bar with my friends. I actually hit on the married/engaged women who were there--not intention of following through, just wanted to see how that worked. I'm a huge data geek.

6 women told me to go f' myself. 2 women threatened to have their husbands beat me down. One woman flirted with me for a bit and one straight-up invited me back to her hotel room.

I laughed and walked away, but still wonder, "what made that 1 woman so different from the other 9?" "Why was she so much easier than the single women I've approached?"

Not saying that you're like her. Just asking if you can extrapolate from your experience onto my experiment in sleazebaggery.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Labcoat said:


> What were you blinded by? Inexperience? Too many Lifetime movies? Insecurity?
> 
> I'm genuinely curious.
> 
> ...


A single suggested addition to your experiment...Larger sample size of random married women, and perhaps vivisection of the men who approach them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

blackdiamonds said:


> My BH asked me what the OM looked like and his performance in the sack to compare on DDay. OM was a total downgrade. He was tall, lanky and had a face good enough for radio. His performance was so-so and he wasn't that big downstairs. The only one up OM had was a job (because at the time of the affair BH was unemployed due to issues with his bg and finding regular work). It didn't help either that OM turned out to be a total @$$hole after I saw him for what he really was. Labcoat, what you describe about OM that prey on unavailable women out of desperation and the like described OM for me. Except I was too blind to see that at the time.


So you got on your back for him because he had a job? Perhaps your H wanted to know what it was about this man that compelled his wife to go back multiple times. When did your blinders fall off? Second time? Third time? Fourth time?

Yours is a heart warming story of a wife who rediscovered the love and respect she had for her husband...sometime after another man climbed off of her for the Nth time.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

This is a doozy of a question. I had bouts of depression, self-loathing, shattered ego, the whole nine yards; still do. Unlike a good majority of guys on this forum, I didn't have any success dating until I met my wife. Therefore, I never felt any real self-worth in that regard. So when she stepped out with the OM, those empty feelings came roaring back into my head. He was a couple of years younger than me, muscular physique, and from hearing from her e-mails, texts, and other messages, the biggest and best sex she's ever had to this date.

It's a daily struggle for me to not think of myself as inadequate and only around as a last resort after all of the bigger, better deals have moved on. Not a day goes by when I'm not thinking of the mind movies, the 60+ pages of e-mails of them talking about how much better the sex has been with each other than their own spouses and what they did that they'd never do with us. I really wished that there was a time machine I could jump into to take away the hurt; take away the pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blackdiamonds (Jun 26, 2013)

Labcoat said:


> What were you blinded by? Inexperience? Too many Lifetime movies? Insecurity?
> 
> I'm genuinely curious.
> 
> ...


I thought OM was a nice guy and didn't think that he really wanted to just use me(at the time I met him). Somebody I confided in told me that he more than likely wanted me as a "FBW" because I was a "safe bet" for not wanting a relationship with him as boyfriend/girlfriend. Thinking back on it, he played to my emotions and used my vulnerability to his advantage. For a toad, he knew how to charm me.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Simon Phoenix said:


> This is a doozy of a question. I had bouts of depression, self-loathing, shattered ego, the whole nine yards; still do. Unlike a good majority of guys on this forum, I didn't have any success dating until I met my wife. Therefore, I never felt any real self-worth in that regard. So when she stepped out with the OM, those empty feelings came roaring back into my head. He was a couple of years younger than me, muscular physique, and from hearing from her e-mails, texts, and other messages, the biggest and best sex she's ever had to this date.
> 
> It's a daily struggle for me to not think of myself as inadequate and only around as a last resort after all of the bigger, better deals have moved on. Not a day goes by when I'm not thinking of the mind movies, the 60+ pages of e-mails of them talking about how much better the sex has been with each other than their own spouses and what they did that they'd never do with us. I really wished that there was a time machine I could jump into to take away the hurt; take away the pain.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I dont know you, or what you look like, or how much money you have. But i do know that you fooled yourself into believing that you dont measure up. 

If i can change, you can change. 

I sat at home for 10 years while i let myself be mistreated. Then, like the big bang or the lit fuse i started going out. I didnt have a lot of luck with women before marriage either. But, your misfortune like mine wasnt caused by a lack of anything except desire.

Dating as a guy past 20 changes. The competition is less, the choices vast and there are many women who will love to meet you if you go that route. 


Youre more than up to the task, and youre just as capable as anyone else. 

You sold yourself short and let your WW get one heck of a bargain. Have you read no more mr nice guy and married man sex life?


That pain was my catalyst for change. At first i was pushed to improve through anger. But after long enough you wake up one day and realize the anger is fading. But by then youve been pumping iron and losing weight and buying new clothes for so long you realize hey, wait i like this feeling. The anger and depression fades and leaves you with feelings of accomplishment. By then its a habbit. 

You dont have to like yourself to improve. You just have to be in so much pain you want your life to change. Eventually youll start to demand better things for yourself. I got used to treating myself good, and so i began to think i was worth it. 

So your wife finds him more attractive? Why do you care what she thinks? 

Former 'nice guys' have it awesome. Life will only get better. You are capable of changing your situation. One thing the introverts have is an easier time changing. Thats a huge benefit.

Its hard to see, but you CAN come out the other side of this better than when you started. This is as much an opportunity as it is a calamity. 

You settled and were probably content. Imagine how happy you'll be if you don't settle. Demand things and deliver them for yourself. 
_Postedo via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Robesia,
> 
> 
> It's not that you will fall on the first one you see.
> ...


More than half the men in clubs will "get lucky" in there if they are able.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

Thank you for your honesty.



blackdiamonds said:


> Somebody I confided in told me that he more than likely wanted me as a "FBW" because I was a "safe bet" for not wanting a relationship with him as boyfriend/girlfriend.


As a man, I couldn't imagine having any other sort of arrangement with a married or otherwise unavailable woman... if that's how I operated.

Men are pretty much all like that. Platitudes of love in the situation are either a) lying, or b) in deep, deep denial about who they really are.. cuttlefish game.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

Brokenshadow said:


> A single suggested addition to your experiment...Larger sample size of random married women, and perhaps vivisection of the men who approach them?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Meh, the Herp is probably already doing the job for me.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I think as part of R, one of conditions is that the WW must agree and follow through to put as much or more effort in the BS.
> 
> She must put as much effort into grooming , dressing, make up,
> She must put as much effort into texting, reaching out, etc
> ...


Why use the OM as a measuring stick for yourself? It's demeaning.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Refuse to be played said:


> I almost feel insulted when I think about who my W had her affair with. I'm attractive, tall, and in shape. I'm in my late 20's and college aged girls are interested in me sometimes. And she goes and have an affair with some 52 year old short pudgy balding SOB? In addition to the crippled pride and self esteem and the loss of trust, there insulted feeling I have. Like WTF did you see in him? The whole downgrading affair thing is like salt to a open wound.


IT seems common. You are not the only one and neither am i. My wife's EA partner spells "our marriage" "are mareidge" Could she have at least picked someone literate instead of a half literate hillbilly?

Anyway. From outside. She looks to have been groomed. She was likely guilted into encounter 1 then pushed into encounter set 2. She is still guilty but I rather doubt she had the hots for him.

Saw her pic in the album. Surely by now you have "the glare" down hardcore. Dont kill me for saying this but cmon YOU KNOW, When she walks into a room most men will want her. Both the 20something gym rat and the fat 50 year old. The 50 something had something on her and she allowed the boundaries to fall.


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> IT seems common. You are not the only one and neither am i. My wife's EA partner spells "our marriage" "are mareidge" Could she have at least picked someone literate instead of a half literate hillbilly?
> 
> Anyway. From outside. She looks to have been groomed. She was likely guilted into encounter 1 then pushed into encounter set 2. She is still guilty but I rather doubt she had the hots for him.
> 
> Saw her pic in the album. Surely by now you have "the glare" down hardcore. Dont kill me for saying this but cmon YOU KNOW, When she walks into a room most men will want her. Both the 20something gym rat and the fat 50 year old. The 50 something had something on her and she allowed the boundaries to fall.


Wow...are mareidge?...thats like less than 4th grade reading level. How the hell could she stand reading that crap for extended periods of time without getting a headache?

I honestly have pretty much been 'look but don't touch' with her in the past, not so much anymore. Hell one time when we went to a club she was able get both of us free drinks a few times by having random guys buy them for her. But I do have the death glare down among other things for when some poor suicidal fool that decides to do more than look. 
:gun:

And I know she didn't have hots for him too. Still a total mind f### when the visuals get stuck in my head.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Refuse to be played said:


> And I know she didn't have hots for him too. Still a total mind f### when the visuals get stuck in my head.


Those mind movies are the worst thing in my head, so I know what you mean. Makes me ill, makes me lose sleep, makes me really effin pissed. 

Yet I love her. How effed up is that?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

blackdiamonds said:


> I thought OM was a nice guy and didn't think that he really wanted to just use me(at the time I met him). Somebody I confided in told me that he more than likely wanted me as a "FBW" because I was a "safe bet" for not wanting a relationship with him as boyfriend/girlfriend. Thinking back on it, he played to my emotions and used my vulnerability to his advantage. For a toad, he knew how to charm me.


Oh you poor dear.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Those mind movies are the worst thing in my head, so I know what you mean. Makes me ill, makes me lose sleep, makes me really effin pissed.
> 
> Yet I love her. How effed up is that?



I don't know what your timeline is, but after about 5-6 months the mind movies were mostly gone. About the same time the anger started to fade. 

The love too, will suffer quite a bit until it's the bare glimmer of a twinkling star. Once it's just a little twinkle you can hold it there if you like, or let it go. 

I think it was weightlifter who estimated about 6 months of healing, (with some lingering effects for years after that. Could be wrong on this) Regardless, I'd say the serious pain was for me the first 5-6 months. It quickly gets easier after that.

You need to prepare yourself for single life. Lose weight, work out etc. So that if it comes (or when you're ready) you dont have to get your stuff together then. There is no reason to drag all this out longer than it has to. Even if you're in R, prepare to be single. Do not rely on the words of someone you can't trust. 

If the chance for R wasn't on the table I'd feel little emotion or regret. I'm not sure i'd care honestly.

Infact, i'd be dating right now.


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Those mind movies are the worst thing in my head, so I know what you mean. Makes me ill, makes me lose sleep, makes me really effin pissed.
> 
> Yet I love her. How effed up is that?


I know the feeling. I find doing thinks that turn the brain 'off' tend to help me sometimes. Playing video games or exercising. Get involved with some kind of physical activity. I took up Muay Thai. Helps take your mind off of it, its a release for the anger, and it tires you the hell out so you have no choice but to sleep for a few hours.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Yeah I was an exercise fiend until arthritis slowed me down somewhat. Video games do it for me. Wish I still had a dirt bike; best distraction ever!


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Robesia,
> 
> 
> It's not that you will fall on the first one you see.
> ...


Definitely agree that proper boundaries are important for marriage. they should rightly be a source of tension if a spouse ignores them or crosses them; they are worth fighting over, in fact. Such fights send a strong, implicit message that if things escalate to actual cheating, then fighting will escalate to divorcing. 

Also agree that crossing these boundaries can lead to affairs. But my bottom line is that crossing these lines are, in and of themselves, acts of disrespect to a husband and to the marriage itself. I.e. one should never say to his wife that her doing X is something he is "not comfortable with” - instead explain that it is an act of disrespect, and treat it as a real, serious insult if she goes through with it.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Simon Phoenix said:


> This is a doozy of a question. I had bouts of depression, self-loathing, shattered ego, the whole nine yards; still do. Unlike a good majority of guys on this forum, I didn't have any success dating until I met my wife. Therefore, I never felt any real self-worth in that regard. So when she stepped out with the OM, those empty feelings came roaring back into my head. He was a couple of years younger than me, muscular physique, and from hearing from her e-mails, texts, and other messages, the biggest and best sex she's ever had to this date.
> 
> It's a daily struggle for me to not think of myself as inadequate and only around as a last resort after all of the bigger, better deals have moved on. Not a day goes by when I'm not thinking of the mind movies, the 60+ pages of e-mails of them talking about how much better the sex has been with each other than their own spouses and what they did that they'd never do with us. I really wished that there was a time machine I could jump into to take away the hurt; take away the pain.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I can empathize with you and others posting here with similar stories, given that I'm a husband. but it sounds like the pain is worse than a never-been-cheated-on man can conceive of.......and that is very bad indeed.

If I was put in that position, well, ultimately I don't know what I'd do..........I'd be just as afraid of an unklnown future as anyone would. Maybe I'd blow up for a month and then go to her wanting badly to R. But I will say that if someone hurt me that badly, making me feel more devalued than I have ever felt in my life - say - I would make damn sure that I pulled her down with me. E.g. I'd be using the term so much she'd think her middle name had been changed to "wh*re." and that would be when I was calm 

I.e. I'd want her self-image decimated every bit as much as mine was; I'd see to it, that would be my goal. did you guys all go through something like that??


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Oh you poor dear.


Sarcasm? Unhelpful. Really.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I.e. I'd want her self-image decimated every bit as much as mine was; I'd see to it, that would be my goal. did you guys all go through something like that??


Yes and oddly, no. 

I want her to know the deep seated pain and horror of betrayal. I want her to know how fiercely it stabs at my heart, over and over and over again, on a DAILY basis. I want to know where she put the ring when she was fcking him. I have yelled at her, even when she ISN'T there... 

But the thing is, I still love her. That's WHY it hurts so much, beyond the pain of betrayal. I've never stayed before when cheated on, and I've unfortunately had that experience before, more than you can count on one hand. It hurts because I love her so much. 

But to put that much pain in her too, well she has her regrets, she has remorse, she has changed her outlook on life (back to the way she was when I first met her) and I have to believe it's real, in order for R to really take hold. 

Hurting her more at this point isn't fruitful. But I need to keep asking questions, raising that painful crap to the light of day, and that in itself keep her in pain. But she has to do it because I have to do it. I didn't get it on with a former lover, I stayed faithful since the day we started being lovers. 

If the WS isn't remorseful and willing to work hard on helping the BS heal, all bets are off and the BS has every right to just throw in the towel.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I can empathize with you and others posting here with similar stories, given that I'm a husband. but it sounds like the pain is worse than a never-been-cheated-on man can conceive of.......and that is very bad indeed.
> 
> If I was put in that position, well, ultimately I don't know what I'd do..........I'd be just as afraid of an unklnown future as anyone would. Maybe I'd blow up for a month and then go to her wanting badly to R. But I will say that if someone hurt me that badly, making me feel more devalued than I have ever felt in my life - say - I would make damn sure that I pulled her down with me. E.g. I'd be using the term so much she'd think her middle name had been changed to "wh*re." and that would be when I was calm
> 
> I.e. I'd want her self-image decimated every bit as much as mine was; I'd see to it, that would be my goal. did you guys all go through something like that??


Yup - I wanted to R almost right away. Eventually tried, only to realize I didn't want to R and even if I did, I couldn't do it. Not sure how, but I only managed to call her a wh*re 1 time. We were in our false R and fighting. She yelled at me to call her what I really thought she was. I told her she was a f*cking wh*re. That was the one and only time. I am frankly astounded I didn't verbally abuse her a lot more. Maybe I always knew it was over since dday and there was no point - I was going to be free of her, so no need to throw stones. Depriving her of me is punishment enough. And she [email protected] knows it.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> If the WS isn't remorseful and willing to work hard on helping the BS heal, all bets are off and the BS has every right to just throw in the towel.


Even if the WS IS remorseful and willing to do all that, the BS still has every right to throw in the towel.


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

Well, I only think of one thing when it comes to this situation...

R-E-V-E-N-G-E.

Part of that includes getting myself in the best possible condition in all aspects of my life. It means doing things differently than how I did them before. It also means taking on an abundance mindset instead of the scarcity mindset that I was raised upon. In other words, it means building myself from the ashes to live better than I ever have, only this time without having to be treated as a bronze-medal contestant.

It might not be ethical but that is what keeps the fire burning. This will not go unanswered. This affair and collateral damage that I had to deal with will be paid back with payday loan interest. She doesn't know when, how, with whom, or where; but she will know why....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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