# Divorce Effects on Your Children



## southern wife

For those of you that have gone through separation and divorce, how did it effect your child(ren)? Long-term, short-term, etc.

How did you initially tell them what was about to happen (separate)? How did they initially handle the news?

How many do you have and what are their ages?


Thanks for your help with this.


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## Rowan

I have one child, a son, now age 14. He was 13 last August when my now-ex-husband and I sat him down and told him that we were getting a divorce. My ex explained briefly that he had cheated on me more than once and that we had tried to save the marriage, but it just wasn't working. Our son had a few questions, like where he and I would live, how much time he would spend with his dad, etc. - logistical stuff. He cried and sat and held both of us for probably 20 minutes. It occurred to me that he was consoling us. Then he asked if it would be okay if he went and took a hot shower (something he has done to self-soothe since he was very young). After that, he was mostly matter of fact about everything, if a little down and withdrawn. 

We did not move out until the week the divorce was final - 10 weeks after I told my ex I was divorcing him and about 8 weeks after we told our son. It was a peaceful, almost ridiculously amicable, divorce. And us not moving out right away seemed to give him plenty of time to wrap his head around what was happening. I think it helped a lot that I have always been honest with him and try to keep him informed about what's going on. I also talked with him a lot and let him know I was willing to answer any questions he had. There weren't many. He doesn't like surprises, but frankly, I don't think he really _was _surprised. I've realized he reads people better than most adults and has a level of empathy that is somewhat breathtaking.

We've had no problems with behavior or grades. He was a bit more needy for a couple months after we moved into our new house. I found him wanting to hold my hand and hug more, wanting to cuddle up on the couch to watch tv like he did when he was younger, asking to have a night-light in his bedroom, etc. Nothing particularly alarming or unexpected. Most of that has evened out since we've settled in more. My best friend pointed out that, other than a change of address, our daily lives have not changed much at all. My ex was never an active or involved parent, and I've always been the primary, and often sole, caregiver to our son. He actually has more direct interaction and quality time with his father than he did before the divorce. And he's much less bothered by it when my ex blows off his visitation evenings or weekends than I am. Sadly, I think its because he doesn't really expect his father's presence or attention, so time with Daddy is mostly just a bonus.  

He's met his father's new girlfriend, whom he describes as "nice, but kinda young and a soooo ADD." As I understand it, and not having met her myself, that's a fair assessment. Otherwise, he's been very nonchalant about his father dating. And I'm thankful that at least the new girlfriend isn't one of the women he was "dating" while we were still married.  I'm not sure how he will react when I start dating again, but that's still a few months out at least. And I don't plan to introduce him to anyone I'm dating unless it becomes a _very_ serious relationship.

I'm sure that somewhere down the line, there will be lasting effects from our divorce. But I do the best I can, try to stay honest, and periodically ask how he's doing. He also knows that he always has the option of seeing a family counselor if he'd like to talk about things with someone other than family or friends.


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## southern wife

Rowan,

Thank you so much for that great post. Divorce is never easy on anyone, especially the children, but I think living in a toxic marriage is worse.


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## Married but Happy

We sat down and told him 14 years ago. He didn't understand the why, really, as there were few obvious signs of our problems. Anyway, he adapted pretty quickly, and the biggest impact on him was having to divide his time to spend with each of us. It didn't seem to affect him much otherwise. He went on to a great college, did reasonably well, and after interning at IBM, got a job there on their highest profile project. He's been in a good relationship (not married) most of that time, which has lately hit some rough spots, but they are working on that very thoughtfully and considerately. He now understands why I left, too, and has always liked my new wife. I am very proud of how he's turned out.


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## EnjoliWoman

My kiddo was 4.5 and unfortunately I left quickly with a bag of clothes to a shelter. I told her it was a really cheap hotel and that's why we had to share a room with another woman for a bit and why we had to help out with keeping the place clean. I said I was looking for a place to live that was just for us and Daddy would live in the "grey house" and she'd have a room at both places and would get to see him.

Of course she wanted to know why we weren't going to live together like a family anymore. I told her that Daddy yelled a lot and that made me very unhappy (I didn't initially tell her about the abuse) and that I just couldn't be soooo sad any more. She agreed that Daddy yelled a lot and said I should just sit down at the kitchen table and talk to him about it. She parotted a lot of what he said. He told her I should have done that and that I broke up the family. I told her that I had talked to him for years about his yelling and temper but nothing changed so eventually I had to go.

I took her to a family counselor. I went to give her a safe outlet for her feelings, to keep communication open between us, to get guidance in age-appropriate ways to discuss adult topics with her and to learn better parenting skills. I had IC at the shelter and a few sessions alone with the family counselor but that was mostly to get feedback about kiddo issues/co-parenting issues and such.

I think that was the most helpful thing I did. The counselor helped a lot by asking kiddo things like "Do you have any questions you want to ask your mom?" And moderating the discussion and asking both of us questions that would lead to discussion. 

Also she shared practical things that would reassure her and help her adjust such as telling her ahead of time when she would go to her Dad's. They feel much better when they aren't surprised and know what is going to happen day-to-day. For instance, tucking them in the night before and saying "You are going to see Daddy tomorrow after school - he will pick you up at afterschool so don't worry about finding him - he'll come get you! And in the morning as they are getting dressed "I know you are looking forward to seeing Daddy tonight!" 

When they can follow a calendar it's nice to have one with where they will be at each home and cross of that day at bedtime. It makes like predictable and when their world has been turned upside down its a source of comfort and relief.

I sense this isn't about a friend.


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## Openminded

Children know when their parents aren't happy. My son has said more than once he wished I had divorced his father 30 years ago when I first wanted to instead of waiting until last year to get out. He said he couldn't ever be really happy as a child if I wasn't happy and he knew I wasn't. So parents who feel they can fake it for their children are kidding themselves. They sure aren't kidding their children. Children do want their parents together. But they also want them happy.


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## EnjoliWoman

Oh, and she adjusted pretty easily once custody was settled and a routine established. He really put her in the middle and ages 10-12 were rough. We got past it. The story is linked in my sig line. 

Bottom line is - agree with your ex to disagree. No passing messages through the child, ever. Determine your method of communication. Communicate everything about the child. Both of you put aside difference to attend every event the child is involved it - those times are about the child, not the parents. No painting the other parent as a bad guy, but if it's factual sometimes it can't be avoided.

Now she's a very well adjusted happy kid. She likes being an only child. I'm sure she'd rather be with both parents but not if both are unhappy. Now she's amazed we were ever married and laughs about it. (OMG I don't see how you two were married so long! You hate steak and Dad loves it!) And we never argue about stuff in front of her. Seems like common sense but it's easy to let happen over something small and we did a few times but then I learned to just say "I'll contact you about this later, ok?" and move along.


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## Rowan

EnjoliWoman said:


> Also she shared practical things that would reassure her and help her adjust such as telling her ahead of time when she would go to her Dad's. They feel much better when they aren't surprised and know what is going to happen day-to-day. For instance, tucking them in the night before and saying "You are going to see Daddy tomorrow after school - he will pick you up at afterschool so don't worry about finding him - he'll come get you! And in the morning as they are getting dressed "I know you are looking forward to seeing Daddy tonight!"


:iagree:

My son gets anxious if he doesn't know what the plan is for after school or this weekend or whatever. He has ADHD and some processing issues, so I think the anxiety if he's surprised comes mostly from his internal fears that he's messed up and forgotten something he "should" know. For that reason, I tend to tell him about plans several times and talk about what's coming up a lot, so that he has time to let it sink in. It helps.


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## LanieB

My kids are 15 and 14, and in my situation, they have known their dad was having an affair (for over 2 years now), and they are happy that I'm divorcing him. They are doing very well, considering - although my daughter is having some emotional issues, which I think would have been there anyway regardless of our family problems, but this ordeal hasn't helped it any.

From what I've seen with other families who have divorced, as long as both parents keep the negativity away from the kids and work together to co-parent well, the kids are fine. That's the problem though - - both parents working well together during and after a divorce. It's not always easy.


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## Pluto2

My kids are 16 and 12 now. My elder D discovered my ex A's and came to me. We were having lots of other issues and I was already thinking of divorce, so it was the deal-breaker. We told them together at his request, without mentioning infidelity. IMO that was the single biggest mistake I made. My older daughter was filled with anger over her father's behavior and his total lack of responsibility. He didn't move out for a month or so and the fights were horrible. I eventually told my younger daughter why her sister was so angry at her father. Telling her helped both children. The older one no longer felt alone, and the younger one could make sense of the volatile behavior she witnessed. I took them to counseling, but it didn't last long. According to the counselor they were processing the divorce very well.

They are both doing pretty well in school and have no behavior issues. Their father is the ultimate deadbeat dad now. He saw them twice last year, doesn't call and rarely texts. The older child didn't respond to the single text she got from him last year and I support her. My ex was told if he wants a relationship with his kids he had to repair the damage. He refuses. Not long ago I asked my younger daughter if it bothered her that dad was not around much. She said no. She said that before we broke up he never did anything with us anyway so she doesn't miss something she never had. 

I've also made an effort to include some strong father-figures in our group of friends. I want them to know that no all men behave the way their father does.


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## 3Xnocharm

Rowan said:


> *I think it helped a lot that I have always been honest with him and try to keep him informed about what's going on. I also talked with him a lot and let him know I was willing to answer any questions he had*. There weren't many. He doesn't like surprises, but frankly, I don't think he really _was _surprised. I've realized he reads people better than most adults and has a level of empathy that is somewhat breathtaking.
> 
> I'm sure that somewhere down the line, there will be lasting effects from our divorce. * But I do the best I can, try to stay honest, and periodically ask how he's doing.* He also knows that he always has the option of seeing a family counselor if he'd like to talk about things with someone other than family or friends.


This is THE most important part of the whole process, you have GOT to be honest with your kids. Many people try to protect them by sheltering them from the truth, and that is not healthy for kids. They dont like having secrets kept from them, and they will only end up insecure if you try and hide things. Kids are surprisingly intuitive and observant and deserve to know what is really going on in their own lives. So make yourself vulnerable to them and let them ask anything that they need to ask, answer honestly, and keep them informed of scheduling, etc.


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## Ceegee

EnjoliWoman said:


> Oh, and she adjusted pretty easily once custody was settled and a routine established. He really put her in the middle and ages 10-12 were rough. We got past it. The story is linked in my sig line.
> 
> Bottom line is - agree with your ex to disagree. No passing messages through the child, ever. Determine your method of communication. Communicate everything about the child. Both of you put aside difference to attend every event the child is involved it - those times are about the child, not the parents. No painting the other parent as a bad guy, but if it's factual sometimes it can't be avoided.
> 
> Now she's a very well adjusted happy kid. She likes being an only child. I'm sure she'd rather be with both parents but not if both are unhappy. Now she's amazed we were ever married and laughs about it. (OMG I don't see how you two were married so long! You hate steak and Dad loves it!) And we never argue about stuff in front of her. Seems like common sense but it's easy to let happen over something small and we did a few times but then I learned to just say "I'll contact you about this later, ok?" and move along.




Wait....


You hate steak?!?


This seems like a woman only thread but I'm going to give my perspective anyway. 

The initial conversation was easy compared to what has followed over the last 21 months. 

Mom told them (S10, S8 & D5 at the time) that we were divorcing. They cried, we cried, we all laid together and held each other all night. 

The kids are really good now. No behavior issues, grades are good. Well rounded little people. 

Problem is, mom lies to them and makes them cover up her stories. They love both of us so it makes life more difficult for them than it should be for kids this age. 

It sux but you cannot control what the X does. You just gotta be a parent and take things as they come. Deal with it the best you can. 

Just had this same conversation this morning with XW's POSOM's wife. 

That should tell you a little about what the kids are going through.


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## Holland

4 years down the road here and my kids are great. Ex and I are very amicable and do 50/50 shared care, we never dragged the kids into the divorce process and both made the kids the top priority.

I have 3 kids from tweens to teens. The youngest still has her moments when she would love to see her dad and I back together. The oldest knew we were not happy. 

Overall the kids are doing really well, school grades did not skip a beat (all high level academic achievers) and they are just getting on with life. The get along well with my partner and his children.

Key for us was being amicable and putting the children's needs first.


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## Fenix

There are some commonalities here with my story. 

My kids were 14 and 15. When I discovered what their dad was up to, I told him I wanted a divorce. I also insisted on telling them the truth. We sat them down and told them together. He said "We are separating, moving toward divorce, because I have broken your mother's trust" Nice and sanitized, right? Daughter (15 yo) asked me later, does that mean dad had an affair. My reply was "yes, he had affairs". My kids are amazing. My son and daughter both have been hugely supportive. I tried to give them some control in when to move as we were living abroad. They chose to move back to the US immediately. Six weeks later, we were on a plane. Like a previous poster, son got very affectionate and tried to show he was there for me with hugs. He still likes to sit on the couch with his sister and me. It's sweet. Once daughter realized I was doing ok, she started to let her feelings out and show me her rage against her father. She is now in counseling and doing really well. She does want to change her name though. And that's ok.

My stbx sucked, but my kids are the best thing that ever happened to me. I can't regret my marriage simply for that reason.


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## indiecat

Dd was with me for a short time after we parted. The ex began a campaign to alienate her, told her I broke the law when I originally left and took her to her grandparents (she was aware of his ongoing abuse and went willingly), he would text her and say he was depressed without her and her dogs were missing her too much when she was with me. She announced that he said she was old enough to decide, so she was going to stay with her father. 
We've had very little contact since.

She was in hospital 3 days and he didn't let me know until day 3. That was yesterday. I was told by him that she wanted me to only make a brief visit, that he would remain in the room as per her instructions, and that I was not to bring her grandmother or any other friends/family members with me. 

I did go and stayed until the doctor came in and said she could go home. 

She texted later on Facebook 'why are you staying so f$%%g long you should have left hours ago'. She was texting that as I was sitting beside her.

I am happy for everyone who managed to get out of a bad marriage with their relationships with their kids in one piece. 

Oh yes, he allows her to smoke pot in the home, another reason she chose to stay with him. I have called CAS and they said they found no evidence of it. She posts about it on FB and shows pictures of herself smoking and talks about how her brother lets her use his bong. CAS said they saw no danger to the child and closed the case file. She changed to a false name under her FB but I found her new identity.


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## Advocado

According to this link divorce is much harder on kids when the parent can't forgive - Not that the partner necessirily deserves to be forgiven, but it's good for the kids if a parent can forgive their ex.

Children and Divorced / Separated Parents - How Forgiving your Partner can Help your Children


The link below is thought provoking too.

Adjustment Disorder in Children of Divorce


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## Pluto2

Ceegee said:


> Wait....
> 
> 
> You hate steak?!?
> 
> 
> This seems like a woman only thread but I'm going to give my perspective anyway.
> 
> The initial conversation was easy compared to what has followed over the last 21 months.
> 
> Mom told them (S10, S8 & D5 at the time) that we were divorcing. They cried, we cried, we all laid together and held each other all night.
> 
> The kids are really good now. No behavior issues, grades are good. Well rounded little people.
> 
> Problem is, mom lies to them and makes them cover up her stories. They love both of us so it makes life more difficult for them than it should be for kids this age.
> 
> It sux but you cannot control what the X does. You just gotta be a parent and take things as they come. Deal with it the best you can.
> 
> Just had this same conversation this morning with XW's POSOM's wife.
> 
> That should tell you a little about what the kids are going through.


Ceegee,
How do you handle those moments with your kids when its quite obvious mom has lied? Clearly, sometimes its irrelevant to the kids world, but other times its directly about them. In my case, I find myself saying, "Dad has issues with certain facts that we already know." I phrase it that way just to avoid saying out loud to the kids "Dad's lying." Maybe I shouldn't care.


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## lifeistooshort

Well my boys were 2 and 5, and their dad never did anything with them because kids are why "God invented women"-his words. So when he left their lives didn't change much, and I worked so financially we were fine. I never badmouthed their dad and even when I thought he was an arse I never told them. Today they're 13 and 10, and are doing fine. Good grades, good behavior, just great guys. They see their dad regularly and we get along ok, and he's a better parent now that he doesn't have me to dump them on.

I'm remarried, and they have asked about our divorce. I tell them that sometimes adults don't get along and it's better if they split up, but it was good we tried because we have them and we both love them. That always makes them smile. I've also told them that my parents, their grandparents, stayed together for us and it made everyone's life miserable, and I wanted to spare them having to deal with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

My parents were married, divorced, re-married before I ever came along

they separated a few times later but seemed to work things out

my 2nd love, her parents were D and I witnessed first hand how 

they were always used as pawns. I always thought, no way I would ever

get D...yeah ok...WTFE. Her mom would always be waiting when her younger

brother came home from his dad's..."where's the check".. not "how was your

weekend" or "did you do anything exciting". Her dad was wrapped up with his 

current wife and left her pretty much, out in the cold. She said it did not 

bother her but I knew otherwise.


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## stillhoping

My kids were in their 20's when we got D. Initially they were sad and angry. One son left school to stay home with me but he has since graduated. They don't say much about it, I know it's hard to have to do everything separately. I don't say much but I heard my oldest son say " what's the point of getting married", that broke my heart


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## EnjoliWoman

Pluto2 said:


> Ceegee,
> How do you handle those moments with your kids when its quite obvious mom has lied? Clearly, sometimes its irrelevant to the kids world, but other times its directly about them. In my case, I find myself saying, "Dad has issues with certain facts that we already know." I phrase it that way just to avoid saying out loud to the kids "Dad's lying." Maybe I shouldn't care.


I know you asked CeeGee but I'm going to jump in with my .02 as ex made our D keep secrets, too. She was really acting out at first from the stress of having to watch what she said around me.

Her counselor said that I would have to let go of what went on at his house and not even ask what they did that weekend. I wasn't prying, I was just interested and it made me feel better while she was gone if I knew they read bedtime stories or went to the park. Instead she didn't even tell me they went to the circus or even when he MOVED an hour away! So I had to go with a general "I hope you had a great weekend!" and leave it at that and just not even ask her anything that made her have to choose sides - lie to Mom or risk angering Dad by telling. 

Her stress levels decreased. We did talk about good secrets and bad secrets but not in conjunction with ex. She could make those connections alone - I did it in context of friends' secrets. If a friend asked her not to tell anyone she liked a boy, then that's a good secret but if she asked to not tell anyone that mark on her arm was where her Dad flung her to the floor, that was a bad secret. She did start sharing the 'bad' secrets and telling me things he did and said. It was hard for me to not tell him all of the stuff she told me. But it wouldn't have changed anything and would only make her not trust me and him fuss at her about not keeping their secrets or "his business" as he put it. Mostly it was badmouthing me and making her not tell me about his girlfriends (there were only 2 he introduced her to) or staying up late. 

Her counselor also explained that, when she acted out with me, it was out of relief that she could FINALLY stop being on her toes all of the time and that she felt secure enough in her relationship with me to relax and rebel, knowing that I would love her unconditionally. She knew her Dad's love was conditional. Once, early on, she didn't want to go on an impromptu visit with him and he actually raised his voice and said in a mean tone, "Fine. I don't want to see you either. If you want to be a little *****, go to your Mommy - I don't HAVE to see you ever again!" And of course then she cried and said she wanted to see him. She was 5.

And lastly her counselor told me that a parent should never paint the other party in a negative light. Children KNOW they are part Mom and part Dad. Kids often translate a Mom's negative comment about Dad to mean that, half of them is bad. Then they feel a bit rejected. Comments have to be determined if they are necessary for the child to know or is this for the benefit of the angry parent to have the child 'side' with them? Does it do any good for the child to know the Dad cheated? No. It makes the mother feel good to place blame. Therefore it is not necessary and should not be shared. If the focus is on the child, then the child should be allowed to love both parents equally and hold both parents in high esteem when at ALL possible.

The exception - obviously you have to defend yourself if the ex is NOT following the above. At that point you CAN explain things to the kids but it MUST remain FACTUAL. It's OK to comment that you think keeping promises is important. Or that you think being late when going to see people is rude. That's very different than saying "Your Dad is an a-hole because he broke his promises" or "Your Mom is rude and disrespectful because she's always late. I almost learned this too late as ex was alienating kiddo with all of the awful things he was saying and the way he was placing the burden of his happiness on her. I also complained about his being late but stopped associating that behavior specifically with him because she can't make him leave on time, it's not her fault. Instead I switched to focusing making that trait important to HER by nudging her to be ready on time when WE were doing something so she knew it was an important value of mine instead of condemning her Dad for not having it.

The book Divorce Poison explains the subtle differences in the ways to phrase things honestly without bashing and how crucial it is to an emotionally healthy child amidst the chaos of divorce.


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## Pluto2

EnjoliWoman said:


> I know you asked CeeGee but I'm going to jump in with my .02 as ex made our D keep secrets, too. She was really acting out at first from the stress of having to watch what she said around me.
> 
> Her counselor said that I would have to let go of what went on at his house and not even ask what they did that weekend. I wasn't prying, I was just interested and it made me feel better while she was gone if I knew they read bedtime stories or went to the park. Instead she didn't even tell me they went to the circus or even when he MOVED an hour away! So I had to go with a general "I hope you had a great weekend!" and leave it at that and just not even ask her anything that made her have to choose sides - lie to Mom or risk angering Dad by telling.
> 
> Her stress levels decreased. We did talk about good secrets and bad secrets but not in conjunction with ex. She could make those connections alone - I did it in context of friends' secrets. If a friend asked her not to tell anyone she liked a boy, then that's a good secret but if she asked to not tell anyone that mark on her arm was where her Dad flung her to the floor, that was a bad secret. She did start sharing the 'bad' secrets and telling me things he did and said. It was hard for me to not tell him all of the stuff she told me. But it wouldn't have changed anything and would only make her not trust me and him fuss at her about not keeping their secrets or "his business" as he put it. Mostly it was badmouthing me and making her not tell me about his girlfriends (there were only 2 he introduced her to) or staying up late.
> 
> Her counselor also explained that, when she acted out with me, it was out of relief that she could FINALLY stop being on her toes all of the time and that she felt secure enough in her relationship with me to relax and rebel, knowing that I would love her unconditionally. She knew her Dad's love was conditional. Once, early on, she didn't want to go on an impromptu visit with him and he actually raised his voice and said in a mean tone, "Fine. I don't want to see you either. If you want to be a little *****, go to your Mommy - I don't HAVE to see you ever again!" And of course then she cried and said she wanted to see him. She was 5.
> 
> And lastly her counselor told me that a parent should never paint the other party in a negative light. Children KNOW they are part Mom and part Dad. Kids often translate a Mom's negative comment about Dad to mean that, half of them is bad. Then they feel a bit rejected. Comments have to be determined if they are necessary for the child to know or is this for the benefit of the angry parent to have the child 'side' with them? Does it do any good for the child to know the Dad cheated? No. It makes the mother feel good to place blame. Therefore it is not necessary and should not be shared. If the focus is on the child, then the child should be allowed to love both parents equally and hold both parents in high esteem when at ALL possible.
> 
> The exception - obviously you have to defend yourself if the ex is NOT following the above. At that point you CAN explain things to the kids but it MUST remain FACTUAL. It's OK to comment that you think keeping promises is important. Or that you think being late when going to see people is rude. That's very different than saying "Your Dad is an a-hole because he broke his promises" or "Your Mom is rude and disrespectful because she's always late. I almost learned this too late as ex was alienating kiddo with all of the awful things he was saying and the way he was placing the burden of his happiness on her. I also complained about his being late but stopped associating that behavior specifically with him because she can't make him leave on time, it's not her fault. Instead I switched to focusing making that trait important to HER by nudging her to be ready on time when WE were doing something so she knew it was an important value of mine instead of condemning her Dad for not having it.
> 
> The book Divorce Poison explains the subtle differences in the ways to phrase things honestly without bashing and how crucial it is to an emotionally healthy child amidst the chaos of divorce.


EnjoliWoman,
Thanks for some input on this. I don't think I agree with everything the counselor told you, at least not as applied to my family.
For instance, the worst mistake I've made during this divorce was attempting not to disclose my ex's infidelity to my youngest. My older daughter discovered it and was having a hard time. I asked my ex how he wanted to handle our younger one, and, as with everything else, he left it to me. Keeping her out of "the loop" of knowledge made everything worse. My two daughters couldn't share this and confide in each other. The younger one was constantly confused about the anger between her sister and her father. So, in my case, telling about the infidelity was the definitely the way to go.

My question about the other parent's lies was more about when the parent tells a bold-face lie to the child. Usually it is nothing important, but sometimes it is. The unimportant would be stating that he came to an out-of-town soccer tournament when they know darn well he wasn't there. The important is when he yelled at the oldest for not responding to his text before the holidays-when none were sent. I even checked her phone and there was nothing. When the dust clears she comes to me to ask why he would lie and I have no real answers. Neither is willing to confront him on this and maybe that is where I should be working. I've suggested they ask him directly, but right now it doesn't seem worth it to them.


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## Wolf1974

My divorce was horrible. I have two daughters who at the time were 6 and 2. My youngest will never remember a life where my x and I lived together. 

I have dated since divorce more than my x wife. To the best of my knowledge she has never introduced another man to them. I have had a few relationships where I have introduced them to my girlfriend including current. We will likely live together soon..

Through it all it seems they handle it just fine. Never any doubts or question with the exception of one time my then 7 year old asked if I didn't love her anymore. About ripped me apart hearing that and immediately thought it was because my x said some BS to her. Turns out she heard me say I love you to my GF and in her mind you can only love one person. I explained that away quickly for her and have been more verbal in telling both my daughters how much I love them.

Maybe the most long term thing has to do with me. I don't know if I believe in marriage anymore. So if they chose to get married one day and wanted my blessing I have no idea how I will handle that. I guess time will tell.


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## 6301

I was married twice and both marriages produced two daughters ten years apart.

When the first marriage ended, it was a royal mess. My ex used our daughter as a weapon against me and like a jackass, I fell for it. 

One day the ex and I met at a coffee shop and she wanted money for her lawyer and I told her no, I wasn't paying someone one to try to hang me. If she wants a lawyer, the get a job and and find one. She then told me, no money, no seeing my kid. I went down the following Friday to get my daughter and was met by the police and was told to leave. The cop told me he has seen this play out before and the smartest thing to do is get a lawyer and go through the courts because if he would have to come back, I was the one in trouble.

I hired a lawyer and went four months not seeing my kid and the day of the hearing, ex and her lawyer never showed up. I got my court order, went to her house, showed her the order and said to have the kid ready on Friday or this time I'll call the cops.

That was just the beginning. she used the kid every possible chance she could get and it became a tug of war where I wound up buying the kid and years later paid for it because she developed an attitude like her Mother and became a miserable person. I still love her an always will but do not like her and her attitude.

When marriage #2 ended, my STBXW and I saw the outcome of what happened with my oldest and I let it be known that we will not go the same route. Ex agreed and I made sure that I got my daughter when I wanted to see her which was often. Mt ex had no problem and the smartest thing we did was when there were things that needed to be discussed, it was out of earshot of the kid.

The outcome? My ex and I could attend a school program and our daughter could see us sitting together. When she got married, her mom and I sat at the table and talked and took bets on when we would be grandparents. 

All in all, it depends on the parents. If you want to be complete A$$ holes and use the kid then be prepared for problems or if you care and love your kids, then keep your differences between you and your ex and your kid out of it and it will pay off. I lived both. I know. If I could do it over I would in a heart beat.


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## southbound

My kids were 9 and 12 when we divorced. there were no major issues, and as far as my kids were concerned, they had a happy home. My x wife decided she was no longer happy. It happened quickly, and there was crying among my children when told. 

My kids adjusted pretty well. No failing grades or acting out at school. My daughter, now 15, however, really resents my x wife. They don't get along too well and she hates any guy she has. Neither of them like the idea of another person in the mix. Personally, I understand that 100%. I really don't understand when people divorce and the kids welcome the step-parent with open arms and smiles, although i hear that a lot. My daughter actually ran her first man off by being so cold and unfriendly. 

I'm not trying to have a relationship, so she just gets dad when she's here with no drama. Even though divorce may be an adult issue, I think kids really can sense when someone is a nut.


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## Hardtohandle

Still trying to discover this myself..

I am a product of divorce.. My Dad left when I was 12 and never came back. I knew for the most part where he was, but I made the decision not to see him. He happily obliged. 

I grew up with some confidence issues.. My mom was 1st Gen in this country and sort of spoke english.. She learned much more when my father left. She speaks well enough now at 80 but with a spanish accent.. 

But my mom worked 6 days a week to keep this home we have.. I took over the finances over 20 years ago and helped out working 2 jobs when I was 13 years old until....

My Ex kept the affair secret from me but not my kids.. My boys 13 and 8 at the time and now 14 and 9. Knew about this other man.. My youngest actually was introduced to him long before she left or told me she was leaving. I would guess she was trying to make it as easy as possible for my youngest..

Unfortunately for my wife, my kids never left.. My oldest didn't want to go and didn't want to see this man ever.. My youngest of course didn't want to leave the home he was raised in with his brother, dog, grandma and uncle as well, of course there is me also.

So the kids live with me and my mom at 80 helps me out.. 

The therapist says he wants my youngest into therapy because he is afraid he will resent and hate women.. 

It doesn't help that my Ex hasn't seen my oldest in a year and sees my youngest every monday and tuesday when he goes to stay with her.. I tell my oldest all the time don't resent your brother, he just is too young to understand right now.. 

I also tell my oldest that his mother doesn't hate him, but she doesn't know how to handle this.. She lacks the emotional tools in her tool box to deal with this.. 

But I also cover this with making him understand I offered his mother every possible way for her to see him and his brother and she refused.. I never want her to say I didn't see you because your dad didn't let me.. 

The therapist tells me I have to make them meet.. I need to be the bigger person here.. The adult.. 

I told him no or at least not right now.. I am waiting for a few more things to pan out in family court.. Once that is done then I will figure out how to make them meet. 

He tells me so you have an agenda... I say I most certainly do NOW.... 

She is an adult, she fvcked this up.. I offered to leave my home so she could be alone with them after school every day if she wanted.. I would only come back to MY HOME when she told me I could.

She refused..

So this is all on her.. 

But their grades did drop during the break up and then they went back up when she left.. Go figure..


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## southern wife

Ugghhh some of these stories are hard to read. I'm so sorry you and your children have gone through this.


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## Fenix

Hardtohandle said:


> The therapist says he wants my youngest into therapy because he is afraid he will resent and hate women..
> 
> It doesn't help that my Ex hasn't seen my oldest in a year and sees my youngest every monday and tuesday when he goes to stay with her.. I tell my oldest all the time don't resent your brother, he just is too young to understand right now..
> 
> I also tell my oldest that his mother doesn't hate him, but she doesn't know how to handle this.. She lacks the emotional tools in her tool box to deal with this..
> 
> But I also cover this with making him understand I offered his mother every possible way for her to see him and his brother and she refused.. I never want her to say I didn't see you because your dad didn't let me..
> 
> The therapist tells me I have to make them meet.. I need to be the bigger person here.. The adult..
> 
> I told him no or at least not right now.. I am waiting for a few more things to pan out in family court.. Once that is done then I will figure out how to make them meet.
> 
> He tells me so you have an agenda... I say I most certainly do NOW....
> 
> She is an adult, she fvcked this up.. I offered to leave my home so she could be alone with them after school every day if she wanted.. I would only come back to MY HOME when she told me I could.
> 
> She refused..
> 
> So this is all on her..
> 
> But their grades did drop during the break up and then they went back up when she left.. Go figure..


The therapist wants your youngest or your oldest in therapy? Because it sounds like your oldest should be there...maybe with a different therapist though.

My oldest has no interest in seeing her dad. My youngest does, but it is difficult as he lives 8000 miles away and will drop in only occasionally...always on his terms. At 14, your son has a right to have input. I don't really agree with forcing him to see his mother, but would talk with him about keeping the lines of communication open and making choices with consequences that he won't regret in the future.


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## Hardtohandle

Fenix said:


> The therapist wants your youngest or your oldest in therapy? Because it sounds like your oldest should be there...maybe with a different therapist though.
> 
> My oldest has no interest in seeing her dad. My youngest does, but it is difficult as he lives 8000 miles away and will drop in only occasionally...always on his terms. At 14, your son has a right to have input. I don't really agree with forcing him to see his mother, but would talk with him about keeping the lines of communication open and making choices with consequences that he won't regret in the future.


It is the oldest and it would be a different therapist..

I asked about seeing his mom.. Basically he would see her if she came over and he didn't have to leave the home.. He just doesn't want anything to do with this other man. He doesn't want to encounter him in any way.. In many ways I think he just wants to have his mom home. 

My son isn't big on change and is a bit of an introvert.. Smart kid when he wants to be but still very much to himself.. He has friends but, he enjoys them then has his fill of them and wants a break to be alone for a few weeks.. Thats how I see it at least..


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## Chuck71

Hardtohandle said:


> It is the oldest and it would be a different therapist..
> 
> I asked about seeing his mom.. Basically he would see her if she came over and he didn't have to leave the home.. He just doesn't want anything to do with this other man. He doesn't want to encounter him in any way.. In many ways I think he just wants to have his mom home.
> 
> My son isn't big on change and is a bit of an introvert.. Smart kid when he wants to be but still very much to himself.. He has friends but, he enjoys them then has his fill of them and wants a break to be alone for a few weeks.. Thats how I see it at least..


younger son does not like change, 100% understandable

first real change he saw was mommy n daddy not living with him

in same house and mommy living with a stranger.

children regress to times where thy felt "comfortable"


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## Fenix

Hardtohandle said:


> It is the oldest and it would be a different therapist..
> 
> I asked about seeing his mom.. Basically he would see her if she came over and he didn't have to leave the home.. He just doesn't want anything to do with this other man. He doesn't want to encounter him in any way.. In many ways I think he just wants to have his mom home.
> 
> My son isn't big on change and is a bit of an introvert.. Smart kid when he wants to be but still very much to himself.. He has friends but, he enjoys them then has his fill of them and wants a break to be alone for a few weeks.. Thats how I see it at least..


Ok, gotcha. That makes sense and I can't blame older son for not wanting to see the OM. We talk a lot about choices in our house. How DNA is not destiny and people have the ability to make choices about their behavior. We also talk a lot about how not all men (or women, in your case) are like their parent. Finally, we talk about trust and how trust in yourself is as important as being trusting of others. After what happened in my family, knowing that I can trust myself to handle anything means that I am open to taking the risk to trusting others. The ability to be vulnerable and trusting is important...I don't want my children to lose that (but to be sensible about it).


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## EnjoliWoman

Pluto2 said:


> EnjoliWoman,
> Thanks for some input on this. I don't think I agree with everything the counselor told you, at least not as applied to my family.
> For instance, the worst mistake I've made during this divorce was attempting not to disclose my ex's infidelity to my youngest. My older daughter discovered it and was having a hard time. I asked my ex how he wanted to handle our younger one, and, as with everything else, he left it to me. Keeping her out of "the loop" of knowledge made everything worse. My two daughters couldn't share this and confide in each other. The younger one was constantly confused about the anger between her sister and her father. So, in my case, telling about the infidelity was the definitely the way to go.
> 
> My question about the other parent's lies was more about when the parent tells a bold-face lie to the child. Usually it is nothing important, but sometimes it is. The unimportant would be stating that he came to an out-of-town soccer tournament when they know darn well he wasn't there. The important is when he yelled at the oldest for not responding to his text before the holidays-when none were sent. I even checked her phone and there was nothing. When the dust clears she comes to me to ask why he would lie and I have no real answers. Neither is willing to confront him on this and maybe that is where I should be working. I've suggested they ask him directly, but right now it doesn't seem worth it to them.


I agree family dynamics will always vary case by case. If one child knows about an affair and the other doesn't, I can see the strain it would cause. In that event, the kid is already in the middle and with the youngest not understanding... had to be tough for her. I agree the other one needed to know but I do think not expressing any hatred about it and letting kids know they can still love Dad even if he did a bad thing is OK under traditional circumstances. 

But the PA lies/gaslighting stuff is certainly reason for concern. They may just need to know that Dad loves them but he must be sick mentally - that he has a personality disorder of some sort. It has to be difficult to be jerked around like that - lied to and then yelled at for not agreeing. I think there's a huge risk in getting into a he said/she said thing with the father. He might take it out on them. Since the oldest knew about the affair, I wonder if that's why she's been the primary target? 

Could be he's gaslighting her so she starts to doubt the knowledge of the affair? Or maybe he lies about the soccer game so he doesn't look like a bad father? Either way there's either serious denial or coverup... something really wrong with what he's doing, intentional or not. A counselor might be in order to help the girls know how to deal with the stuff their Dad is doing.


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## Freak On a Leash

I stayed in my marriage in part because of my children. The other part is that I was too scared and stupid. 

My story is this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/62612-after-2-years-its-finally-going-happen.html

I had no choice but to divorce or to continue to let myself and my kids reside in Hell. 

When I told my then 14 year old son about divorcing he asked me "Are you going to date?". My reply was: "If I do, you won't know about it". I keep my social life and my kids separate. So does my ex spouse. 

My daughter was 18 and by then had written off her father. "The man I loved is gone" is how she puts it. She gets a lot of that from me. She's practical and pragmatic. A realist, not an idealist. She saw the situation for what it was. Saw the father she loved become a nasty, drunken nightmare. She dealt with what is, not what she wanted it to be. 

My daughter was the one who urged me to get out of the house we lived in as a family for 20 years and went shopping with me for a new apartment. She also told me to divorce her father when we first separated 3 years before and went with me to the courthouse to file when I finally had enough. We had lunch to celebrate. Both of us looked at is as a new beginning..a fresh start. 

So yes, for both of my kids things are better all around. No more fights, screaming, the police coming to our house or erratic, complicated lifestyle. We live better all around. Better home, better school, nicer environment all around. I think they are in a better place so the effects were positive. 

I think my son would love if his father and I were together still at least as friends (we don't even talk face to face) and could be together as a family at holidays. But I've told him it isn't going to happen. I've also tried hard to allow him to maintain a relationship with his father, as long as his father behaved himself. 

My son he lives with his now sober father now and seems content and happy. He also has a much improved relationship with me as a result. Do we all want to have that perfect "Brady Bunch" lifestyle? I guess so. But we us don't have it and never did. We live day by day and get on and just am glad for what we do have. 

What we do have is peace. That works for us.


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## Cloaked

My cheating dad f***ed me up bad. Children learn from their parents. 
In my experience when people do not take their responsibility of being a good parent seriously they're literally destroying someone's life. Many would never dare do that to someone else but for some reason think it's ok to treat their children that way while professing they "love" them.
It was probably better he was not around to raise me. That way he could not pass on his bad traits and behaviors. Sadly he showed me he would rather keep his bad habits and destructive behaviors rather than being a better person in order to be a parent and protect his children. He loves himself far more than he loves his children. I loathe him.

Divorce to me means you should have never married the person in the first place. Which means after divorce you have to severely strengthen your self to be a better judge of character the next time around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman

I'm sorry you experienced that, Cloaked.

Waaaay too many people have and raise children who aren't suitable just as many who would be great parents are unable to conceive. It's a shame there isn't a switch on the body we can turn off until a parenting analysis can be done.


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## EnjoliWoman

I'm sorry you experienced that, Cloaked.

Waaaay too many people have and raise children who aren't suitable just as many who would be great parents are unable to conceive. It's a shame there isn't a switch on the body we can turn off until a parenting analysis can be done.


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## Fenix

Cloaked said:


> Divorce to me means you should have never married the person in the first place. Which means after divorce you have to severely strengthen your self to be a better judge of character the next time around.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I don't disagree with this. There is a lot of baloney out there about no marriage being a failure and I just don't buy it. My marriage ended up failing (or I failed...and he certainly did). I chose him and that is on me. Still, I have two incredible children due to the marriage. And I hopefully am learning/have learned from my mistake. So, it is just a rather large pothole in the road of life.


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## Cloaked

Fenix said:


> I don't disagree with this. There is a lot of baloney out there about no marriage being a failure and I just don't buy it. My marriage ended up failing (or I failed...and he certainly did). I chose him and that is on me. Still, I have two incredible children due to the marriage. And I hopefully am learning/have learned from my mistake. So, it is just a rather large pothole in the road of life.


Infidelity gets me really angry. My dad cheated and he left. When he left my mom left. She had to start working full time. So I was a child all alone. Sure my mom and dad said they love me but that meant nothing to me as a child. All I knew was if you love me you would be here with me and for me. I disconnected from any emotional intimate relationship in order to protect myself. I did what my parents taught me, appeare fine on the outside while dying on the inside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

My father cheated. And my mother decided not to divorce him. She wanted me to have both parents together. Unfortunately, I never forgave my father. He's gone now.


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## Chuck71

the latch key child was progressive in the 80s

which coincided with so many children raised by MTV and Atari

the end results were sweeping and...still being felt


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## Fenix

Cloaked said:


> Infidelity gets me really angry. My dad cheated and he left. When he left my mom left. She had to start working full time. So I was a child all alone. Sure my mom and dad said they love me but that meant nothing to me as a child. All I knew was if you love me you would be here with me and for me. I disconnected from any emotional intimate relationship in order to protect myself. I did what my parents taught me, appeare fine on the outside while dying on the inside.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How old were you?

And yes, the biggest losers are the children.


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## Cloaked

Fenix said:


> How old were you?
> 
> And yes, the biggest losers are the children.


Sorry I misread. I was 8 when my dad checked out of the family. 10 when the truth came out and he finally left.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

Cloaked said:


> 30
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:scratchhead:


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