# Sex during 180??



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

So as some of you probably know my husband had an EA.He is still withholding details So I have started a 180 a couple of weeks ago. My question is about withholding sex. Isn't that kind of shooting yourself in the foot? Kind of pushing him toward her?Just a thought. I'm open to your opinions. My mind is just going a 100mph all the time anymore. :scratchhead:


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Power of 180 is not just witholding sex, but also to withold ALL the privileges that being with you brings. If he is still in affair then going cold definitely push him towards the OW, if he knows you know about affair and haven't done anything to bust it up in a way it is giving him permission to do whatever he wants. But before deciding to use the 180 you need to do everything you can to bust up the affair, expose any evidence you have to whomever you think should know - the main tool you have at your disposal is consequence, first hold him accountable to the consequences of the affair by exposure, make it as difficult as you can for him to carry on his illicit relationship.

If/when he is not able to accept those consequences is when you protect yourself by using the 180 (and in so doing also take his consequences to the next level). You use the 180 when your cheating spouse is checked out and/or remorseless about their choice. It takes away any perceived power they have over you, it puts the ball back in your court, but you never go in with the expectation that it will save the relationship - you go into the 180 with the expectation it will save you.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Lon said:


> Power of 180 is not just witholding sex, but also to withold ALL the privileges that being with you brings. If he is still in affair then going cold definitely push him towards the OW, if he knows you know about affair and haven't done anything to bust it up in a way it is giving him permission to do whatever he wants. But before deciding to use the 180 you need to do everything you can to bust up the affair, expose any evidence you have to whomever you think should know - the main tool you have at your disposal is consequence, first hold him accountable to the consequences of the affair by exposure, make it as difficult as you can for him to carry on his illicit relationship.
> 
> If/when he is not able to accept those consequences is when you protect yourself by using the 180 (and in so doing also take his consequences to the next level). You use the 180 when your cheating spouse is checked out and/or remorseless about their choice. It takes away any perceived power they have over you, it puts the ball back in your court, but you never go in with the expectation that it will save the relationship - you go into the 180 with the expectation it will save you.


I started it b/c he was being wishy washy about it and was very very defensive! He was not at the point when I started, doing anything to make me feel better. He was doing nothing but denying any and all wrong doing by saying it was not his intent to flirt w her. He has since at least said he can see why I am upset(though Im not sure that means a damned thing). He has responded to the 180 by admitting that she stroked his ego. He no longer locks his phone or closes the computer when I come around. However, as I said I have NO idea what goes on when Im not around. So part of the reason for the 180 is to let him know I will NOT stand for this and the other part is to separate myself from him emotionally. Does that make sense?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

> So part of the reason for the 180 is to let him know I will NOT stand for this and the other part is to separate myself from him emotionally. Does that make sense?


Well it makes sense, except what you are doing is not the 180. Either he is in the marriage or he isn't, you can't make him choose which, it is entirely up to him. However you have 100% of the responsibility of choosing what YOU will do. It seems that what you are trying to do is define a boundary, however the 180 is not the only consequence to him for overstepping your boundary... there is communication, transparency, exposure, escalating to more severe repurcussions like separating and witholding contributions and priveges you bring to table.

If he is unwilling to acknowledge those consequences there is nothing you can do except leave, which is when the 180 becomes your roadmap.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Lon said:


> Well it makes sense, except what you are doing is not the 180. Either he is in the marriage or he isn't, you can't make him choose which, it is entirely up to him. However you have 100% of the responsibility of choosing what YOU will do. It seems that what you are trying to do is define a boundary, however the 180 is not the only consequence to him for overstepping your boundary... there is communication, transparency, exposure, escalating to more severe repurcussions like separating and witholding contributions and priveges you bring to table.
> 
> If he is unwilling to acknowledge those consequences there is nothing you can do except leave, which is when the 180 becomes your roadmap.


well, I dont ask where he is going or tell him what Im doing. I do my own thing. I dont start conversations. I dont ask how he feels or what he wants. I dont tell him I love him or touch him. I dont text or call him. I spend alot of time with my friends. I have started new hobbies. I dont sulk or act unhappy. what am I missing?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

You're still living in the same house for starters.

The 180 is not the first tactic to use.

You use the 180 when you set a boundary, ie "You can no longer talk to her, I want your passwords, emails, etc. I want transparency with your online whereabouts, I want your phone, etc"

If the partner doesn't want to follow the boundaries, then you kick them out and do the 180.

However, in your case, it sounds like your husband doesn't know what he needs to do to "win you back." In that case, the 180 isn't really going to accomplish much except confuse him. What do you want him to do? Do you want him back? Does he know what he has to do? and I mean explicitly know, not what you are hinting.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

sex during a 180 means only anal sex!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> why do you say he doesnt know what to do? I havent really mentined what he is or isnt doing other that saying that he says he understands why Im upset.


Cause you said he's not hiding his computer when you're around, I just get the feeling that he isn't sure what you want from him or not. I could be way off base, you haven't provided any of that info. It was more of a question really, does your husband explicitly know what you want him to do to be taken back? Do you want him back?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I think He does know. He knows he needs a new job. He needs to be transparent. He needs to never say her name. He needs to be present when he is here. He needs to take a good HaRD LOOK AT HIMSELF to figure of what the problem is. I think he is having a mid-life issue. thats not an excuse. But it is something for him to be aware of for sure. I need him to be truthful, honest and to know that I am looking and if I find something, I am gone. No questions asked.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> sex during a 180 means only anal sex!


I'll let him know he needs to bend over then Chilly!! lol


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> *I think He does know*. He knows he needs a new job. He needs to be transparent. He needs to never say her name. He needs to be present when he is here. He needs to take a good HaRD LOOK AT HIMSELF to figure of what the problem is. I think he is having a mid-life issue. thats not an excuse. But it is something for him to be aware of for sure. I need him to be truthful, honest and to know that I am looking and if I find something, I am gone. No questions asked.


OK you answered my question, no he does not know. You have not explicitly told him. Here is a little clue about Men, we do not think. Or I should say, we do not think well. If you have not written him a letter with very clear, explicit instructions for what he must do to win you back, he has no idea.

Before you do anything else, write down everything you need him to do so that you can heal and begin reconciling with your husband. Do not be angry or mean or hateful. At the end, make it clear that if he can't commit to those actions, that he is to leave, and your marriage will begin divorce proceedings. At that point you do the 180, if he is unwilling to accept the terms.

That being said, what is the background here? You say you only suspect an EA, and it's clear your husband hasn't admitted to it. Are you even sure that's what's going on? You're initial post is right on. If you haven't made your expectations clear, and he isn't sure what you're mad at, and you start ignoring him and withholding emotions and sex, yes you are shooting yourself in the foot.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> I think He does know. He knows he needs a new job. He needs to be transparent. He needs to never say her name. He needs to be present when he is here. He needs to take a good HaRD LOOK AT HIMSELF to figure of what the problem is. I think he is having a mid-life issue. thats not an excuse. But it is something for him to be aware of for sure. I need him to be truthful, honest and to know that I am looking and if I find something, I am gone. No questions asked.


OK:scratchhead:, It sounds like he DOESN'T know! "I think" doesn't cut it!. You need to explicitly tell him. Actually seems like he is being transparent and working on the relationship.Your 180 seems like spite, not an effort to work on yourself and detach because he isn't meeting the boundaries necessary. The 180 is not a tool for manipulation. It is for you! not him...


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

KanDo said:


> OK:scratchhead:, It sounds like he DOESN'T know! "I think" doesn't cut it!. You need to explicitly tell him. Actually seems like he is being transparent and working on the relationship.Your 180 seems like spite, not an effort to work on yourself and detach because he isn't meeting the boundaries necessary. The 180 is not a tool for manipulation. It is for you! not him...


What he said...


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

If you are doing a 180, you are ready to separate and need to put some distance between you, emotionally. That allows you to do the hard things, like deciding who gets what and who moves out, without being a state of mind of throwing yourself at their feet.

It means they have checked out, you are the one hanging onto a dead situation. So get tough and get practical. Focus on yourself and improving what you can.

If that's not what you are trying to do, and you have no intent of moving on, then maybe more advice is needed. Just my opinoin on the 180.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

KanDo said:


> OK:scratchhead:, It sounds like he DOESN'T know! "I think" doesn't cut it!. You need to explicitly tell him. Actually seems like he is being transparent and working on the relationship.Your 180 seems like spite, not an effort to work on yourself and detach because he isn't meeting the boundaries necessary. The 180 is not a tool for manipulation. It is for you! not him...


It IS NOT spite. It is the fact that he still works with her 10hrs a day and as long as that is true I feel the need to protect myself. when I started the 180 I was pretty much ready to leave because this wasnt the first time he had stepped over the line. (18 emails in one day to a girl at work) and that s just the stuff I know about. so I felt like I wasnt getting the truth(still not sure) and that the only thing I could do is prepare for the worst. It's still what I am doing to an extent since he still sits 10ft from her all day long. I really think he was starting to check out but then I caught on to what was happening and it kind of jerked him back to reality, maybe. At this point I think he probably is doing all he can do but he knows my past and he knew this is the one thing I would have a really hard time looking forward from. So its not just his attraction to her but his lack of thought for me. With that said, I feel like I need to detach myself from him a bit before he totally guts me. So THAT is my reasoning. NOT manipulation. Its self preservation.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

COguy said:


> OK you answered my question, no he does not know. You have not explicitly told him. Here is a little clue about Men, we do not think. Or I should say, we do not think well. If you have not written him a letter with very clear, explicit instructions for what he must do to win you back, he has no idea.
> 
> Before you do anything else, write down everything you need him to do so that you can heal and begin reconciling with your husband. Do not be angry or mean or hateful. At the end, make it clear that if he can't commit to those actions, that he is to leave, and your marriage will begin divorce proceedings. At that point you do the 180, if he is unwilling to accept the terms.
> 
> That being said, what is the background here? You say you only suspect an EA, and it's clear your husband hasn't admitted to it. Are you even sure that's what's going on? You're initial post is right on. If you haven't made your expectations clear, and he isn't sure what you're mad at, and you start ignoring him and withholding emotions and sex, yes you are shooting yourself in the foot.


to be quick....he works with a girl. texting her a bit and hiding it. talking incesantly about her. comparing me to her. He said "she is young and thin and powerful" so I knew you'd be jealous of her! Um, ok.....???? I am now. fyi.... she is 7yrs younger than me, and I am pretty small and as far as power goes I guess he meant at her job. Still, WTF? Who says that to their wife? Then he started picking fights and locking his phone. In January I called him on it and he denied it naturally. He still works with her but no texting, never mentions her and not picking at me anymore. But when I did call him on it he wasVERY defensive! I mean like he had a fit! Many Many arguments later he admits that she did stroke his ego. Thats all I have gotten out of him. So I am still very much on guard.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> to be quick....he works with a girl. texting her a bit and hiding it. talking incesantly about her. comparing me to her. He said "she is young and thin and powerful" so I knew you'd be jealous of her! Um, ok.....???? I am now. fyi.... she is 7yrs younger than me, and I am pretty small and as far as power goes I guess he meant at her job. Still, WTF? Who says that to their wife? Then he started picking fights and locking his phone. In January I called him on it and he denied it naturally. He still works with her but no texting, never mentions her and not picking at me anymore. But when I did call him on it he wasVERY defensive! I mean like he had a fit! Many Many arguments later he admits that she did stroke his ego. Thats all I have gotten out of him. So I am still very much on guard.


OK so you're jealous and he's crossing your boundaries. Have you clearly identified what exactly it is you want him to do about it? Do you want him to quit his job? Increase transparency on phones/emails, etc? Stop talking about her?

The vibe I'm getting is that you haven't taken the time to figure it out for yourself yet. You can't expect your husband to figure it out on his own. Spend an hour or two thinking about it and write down what your husband would be doing in your perfect dream scenario. Then write down of those things what is absolutely critical for you to remain married. Then hand that list to your husband.

Until then, he's just being a typical guy. Completely oblivious to what his wife is thinking.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I have told him. #1. Find a new job
#2. No texting her. Period. #3. I get all passwords#4. No mentioning her to me at all. Even work related. #5 understand that this is not the first time so it will be alot of work to get trust back. so bewilling to "take the heat" so to speak. Now having said all of that, what about the 10hrs a day he spends with her??? To me I wont be able to do much more than 'just get by' until he gets another job. Im just not sure he understands the damage here.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

How is his job search coming? Is he taking that seriously?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> I have told him. #1. Find a new job
> #2. No texting her. Period. #3. I get all passwords#4. No mentioning her to me at all. Even work related. #5 understand that this is not the first time so it will be alot of work to get trust back. so bewilling to "take the heat" so to speak. Now having said all of that, what about the 10hrs a day he spends with her??? To me I wont be able to do much more than 'just get by' until he gets another job. Im just not sure he understands the damage here.


And how is he responding?

Is he actively searching for a new job? And taking it seriously?

Does he text her?

Do you have all his passwords, any sneakiness there? Is he being openly transparent and willfully supplying you all the information you ask for?

Does he mention her?

Is he willing to work with you? Is he "taking the heat"?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Lon and co- He seems to be taking the job search seriously. New applications daily. He has an interview on Monday. Though I think he really wanted to get a new job before this happened so he isnt doing just b/c its one of the requirements. As far as I know he does not email or text her unless it is work related. I have his passwords for his home email but not his work email. so I really dont know what happens there. He doesnt mention her by name. He skirts around it. And as far as 'willfully supplying' answers....I cant really answer that myself because I still feel he is holding back. I do think he wants to get away from her but for now he is stuck and has to deal with her. He has gotten himself into a real cluster here. He is going way out of his way for me. He is trying to communicate better/more. He is trying to be sexual now again. And there lies my problem.. . its hard to have sex w/someone you dont trust even if you love them with all your heart.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> Lon and co- He seems to be taking the job search seriously. New applications daily. He has an interview on Monday. Though I think he really wanted to get a new job before this happened so he isnt doing just b/c its one of the requirements. As far as I know he does not email or text her unless it is work related. I have his passwords for his home email but not his work email. so I really dont know what happens there. He doesnt mention her by name. He skirts around it. And as far as 'willfully supplying' answers....I cant really answer that myself because I still feel he is holding back. I do think he wants to get away from her but for now he is stuck and has to deal with her. He has gotten himself into a real cluster here. He is going way out of his way for me. He is trying to communicate better/more. He is trying to be sexual now again. And there lies my problem.. . its hard to have sex w/someone you dont trust even if you love them with all your heart.


So he's doing what you ask, making the efforts, why are you doing the 180 on him?

If there's still stuff he's not doing, bring it up and make your expectations clear.

If you don't want to stay married, that's your perogative. If that's the case, then start the divorce and stop worrying about shooting yourself in the foot. If you do want to stay married, then you're going to need to start working with your husband to regain trust.

Doing a 180 is not an appropriate response for you IMO. He seems interested in doing what you say.

My advice would be to request his work passwords, and take a look before he has a chance to delete anything. Maybe create some accountability with someone at his work so you can confirm nothing is going on. Definitely you guys need some MC.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

COguy said:


> So he's doing what you ask, making the efforts, why are you doing the 180 on him?
> 
> If there's still stuff he's not doing, bring it up and make your expectations clear.
> 
> ...


Yes, he is doing what I asked him to do NOW. But in the beginning he was beligerant and defensive. Said I was just too jealous and basically a wack job. So I started the 180. After a couple of weeks he started to turn around alot. Now he does seem to be trying by doing all of the things I asked but I had to basically shut down on him to get him to take me seriously. So now he is doing what I have asked of him but it's not magic. It doesnt erase the feeling that I was being lied to and deceived. That is what I'm struggling with. Looking him in the eye and wondering what I dont know, what happened today? Am I stupid to even think of trusting you? Are you lying by ommission? All of these thoughts are here and at the same time I am thinking I love you and I want to move on. There is so much that is right between us. Lets just move on. Its like a war raging inside me.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> Yes, he is doing what I asked him to do NOW. But in the beginning he was beligerant and defensive. Said I was just too jealous and basically a wack job. So I started the 180. After a couple of weeks he started to turn around alot. Now he does seem to be trying by doing all of the things I asked but I had to basically shut down on him to get him to take me seriously. So now he is doing what I have asked of him but it's not magic. It doesnt erase the feeling that I was being lied to and deceived. That is what I'm struggling with. Looking him in the eye and wondering what I dont know, what happened today? Am I stupid to even think of trusting you? Are you lying by ommission? All of these thoughts are here and at the same time I am thinking I love you and I want to move on. There is so much that is right between us. Lets just move on. Its like a war raging inside me.


That's the kind of crap that happens when someone cheats. You didn't provide enough background to see if your husband is truly remorseful or not. Has he actually admitted to doing anything wrong? What actually happened?

Even if your husband does everything right though, you can't expect the pain to go away. Reconciling is hard work and really takes a lot of effort from both parties. You're going to have some really tough days, even when he's being a great guy and doing everything right. Some people can't take it, or don't think it's worth it. I would never judge someone who decides not to reconcile. You can work at it for months and years and still have built up anger and resentment and trust issues.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Back in the summer our daughter had some medical issues. She had a dr. appt. It was a pretty serious issue. Had to see an oncologist. While we are there he gets a text " I have been EXPECTING to hear from you all day! I am in tears." He quickly puts the phone away. I say nothing. We get done, take our daughter to school. I get out of the car and realize I had forgotten something go back to the car and he is texing her...This girl is supposedly just a coworker but she is in tears, right? and he waits until I am away to answer. (to me that is a red flag). Earlier,(by about 3-4yrs) he had broken his ankle/lower leg and had to work from home. I saw on his email 18 emails from one girl (not the same one) all of them saying crap like "you are awesome, no you are" or whatever. you know the drill, unneccessarry and flirtatious. when I said something about it his answer was " from now on I will just work from the office" . Not "wow, that is alot" or "youre right that is over the line". Just blatant disregard for how I felt. anyway fastforward to this girl now. We will call this one the OW. He has been caught with his phone a few times and tried to hide it. Talks incessantly about her, so much so that our daughter finally said "mom, who the heck is ....?" When I addressed it with him at first there was denial then he said "well I knew you'd be jealous of her because she is young, thin and powerful" Yep. thats what he said! Even after I pointed out just how much he talks about her he couldnt resist. It just kept flowing. then he accused me of basically being a wack job. Got totally defensive. I mean nasty. Which is of course confirmation, right? During this time he is picking fights and just hateful in general. All the while continuing to deny any attraction to her at all. so I set about finding out all I could about her and what goes on. She is in a position of power for sure. She was stroking his ego to get what she wanted from him. I totally believe that. But he comepletely fell for it. I have no idea how far she took that. He denied anything at first. Then did admit that if anything he did fall for her ego stroking but insists NOTHING further happened. Im sorry but texting her behind my back, flirting with her at work and thinking about her when you are with me IS an EA. And that just the part I know. Who knows what else there is. I know he is afraid to tell me anything else because he thinks nothing good can come from it.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I would strongly suggest going to MC.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

COguy said:


> I would strongly suggest going to MC.


I have been to IC and am currently going to one. I have not been impressed so far. I am encouraging him to go. I think he is trickle truthing. Last night he did admit to flirting in those emails. So who knows what else there is. I just dont get how you treat someone you claim to love this way.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> I have been to IC and am currently going to one. I have not been impressed so far. I am encouraging him to go. I think he is trickle truthing. Last night he did admit to flirting in those emails. So who knows what else there is. I just dont get how you treat someone you claim to love this way.


Definitely he is trickle truthing, you still don't know the whole picture. You don't know the details of what happened.

It's more than possible it was just a crush and nothing really happened, in some ways this is harder to admit than a full on affair, even if the effect on you is the same.

I think counselling will be important so that you can get your point across to him with a mediator involved. It will be really hard for you to communicate to him your feelings, and for him to understand them, in person, given how much anger and hostility is present.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

COguy said:


> Definitely he is trickle truthing, you still don't know the whole picture. You don't know the details of what happened.
> 
> It's more than possible it was just a crush and nothing really happened, in some ways this is harder to admit than a full on affair, even if the effect on you is the same.
> 
> I think counselling will be important so that you can get your point across to him with a mediator involved. It will be really hard for you to communicate to him your feelings, and for him to understand them, in person, given how much anger and hostility is present.


I know I shouldn't be so hostile. I think the hardest part is just feeling lied to for so long. I have told him that he is breaking my heart. He denies even a crush. Says there was "nothing". But his anger and defensiveness and secretiveness says otherwise to me. I guess its also compounded by his still being there with her every day. If he had adjusted his actions immediately instead of after the 180 I would have felt so much better. But he forced my hand and I resent that.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

canttrustu, I realize it is hard work to keep someone doing the hard work, but this is what you will do to rebuild the trust and respect. The 180 got him back intot the relationship so it means letting him start earning your trust and respect back, as he makes steps give him more to work with...

But while this is happening you need to be preparing yourself to let him go if he is unwilling to do what you need, be ready to go back to the 180 at a moments notice, and if you go back to 180 you keep going from where you were last. If he is still trickle-truthing you it means he is not doing what you need, if he does it, go complete 180 which means no sex for him from you, and realize that everytime he tries to go back in and out of your relationship he is establishing the failing pattern... If I were you I'd give the three strikes rule on his behavior, sounds like he has two strikes already (first indiscretion: strike 1, responding to your first 180 and committing to working on R but then trickle truthing you: strike 2). Use strike 2 to give him last chance to come clean, completely then if something significant comes up again you will already know exactly what to do: serve him with separation papers.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

So do you think sitting him down and saying "so now you have admitted to A,B and C and what else is there b/c this is your last chance to come clean after this I'm done" is a good idea?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

yes, it is critical, a marriage is based on honesty and transparency, if he is hiding things now is the time for putting all the cards on the table, you may not like what you hear, but assuming it really IS all in the past you have to muster the courage to forgive. There is another thread on the general section about "Joesph's letter" that talks about having all the pieces of the puzzle and not being able to be able to see the same picture without all the same pieces, he has no right to keep you in the dark and expect you to move on with him. Witholding information or his thoughts and feelings is not protecting you its only building walls between you. Give him a head's up that you expect full disclosure and don't corner him because you know if you do he will just go back to the pattern of trickle-truthing, tell him first you can't handle tidbits any longer, that to stay married you need to restore full uncompromised trust in each other.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I think you say it perfectly when you say he has no right to expect me to move on with him while withholding information or thoughts or feelings. I think he thinks he is protecting me. I really do believe its over and he WANTS to tell me but he FEARS it. How can I get through to him about this?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

How to get through? First, realize and understand that maybe you can't, it is entirely up to him to try to really listen and understand.

Make sure he knows you are serious, have the separation papers drawn up with your signature on it and on the kitchen table ready for him so he realizes this is it.

As for me, I couldn't make my ex W understand any of this, but she was checked out and didn't even want to pretend to try. So my advice to you at this point is only based on what doesn't work. I think what matter most right now is action not talk, whatever you say to him be prepared to back it up with a real decision, it is hard work and requires courage but I know you have it because your marriage means something to you.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Lon said:


> How to get through? First, realize and understand that maybe you can't, it is entirely up to him to try to really listen and understand.
> 
> Make sure he knows you are serious, have the separation papers drawn up with your signature on it and on the kitchen table ready for him so he realizes this is it.
> 
> As for me, I couldn't make my ex W understand any of this, but she was checked out and didn't even want to pretend to try. So my advice to you at this point is only based on what doesn't work. I think what matter most right now is action not talk, whatever you say to him be prepared to back it up with a real decision, it is hard work and requires courage but I know you have it because your marriage means something to you.


It means more than something, it means everything. Everything short of my soul. I wont let him have that. I do know that he loves me and he is suffering/hurting. As I said he has put the phone on the counter, left the computer alone and is Always home. He is doing all he can to be attentive and trying to make it up to me as well as "take the heat" when I dish it out. He understands that I am struggling to trust him and knows that I see him differently than I used to. I have lost respect for him but there is no doubt that I love him to my core. 

With that said i am going to push him to come "the rest of the way" clean with me. I am going to assure him that I wont leave as long as he is honest now. But if I find out more later I will divorce him without hesitation. It pains me to even type that but I wont be anyones doormat. Am I being reasonable? (I feel like I need a compass because at times I cant think straight, ya know?)


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

and I did read Joseph's letter and Im gonna use that when I talk to him too. It helped me to be able to put how I feel into words. I think in a way he is of that "what she doesnt know wont hurt her" frame of mind. I dont know that for sure but thats how it seems. Like he is trying to not further the damage.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> It means more than something, it means everything. Everything short of my soul. I wont let him have that. I do know that he loves me and he is suffering/hurting. As I said he has put the phone on the counter, left the computer alone and is Always home. He is doing all he can to be attentive and trying to make it up to me as well as "take the heat" when I dish it out. He understands that I am struggling to trust him and knows that I see him differently than I used to. I have lost respect for him but there is no doubt that I love him to my core.
> 
> With that said i am going to push him to come "the rest of the way" clean with me. I am going to assure him that I wont leave as long as he is honest now. But if I find out more later I will divorce him without hesitation. It pains me to even type that but I wont be anyones doormat. Am I being reasonable? (I feel like I need a compass because at times I cant think straight, ya know?)


I think that's a great response.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

So the hubby and I had 'the talk' about the whole dirty business of the EA. He still maintains that it is way bigger in my head than in reality. He did however admit to some things that I really didnt want to hear. Like enjoying her attention, flattery etc. He said she was definately an ego boost and he is not proud of that. He told me alot of things that have been going on inside his head. Some where not a suprise some where. He said he is not feeling 'young' anymore. He's 42. Yeah over the hill. lol Anyway, He is getting back into a couple of sports that he loves and is continuing to look for a new job. He has always worked out(he's in great shape ) and the sports thing will help him feel a bit better too I think. (no coed stuff) unless I play too. He was open and honest. Didnt try to dodge any questions and I saw him cry for only the 2nd time in 16yrs. I asked him what the worst part of this is for him and he looked straight at me and said "I can feel what I have done to you. I can see what I have done to us. I have lost your respect and to some degree, your love. The disappointment I have in myself." 

I saw the man I married(strangely enough). I saw him in the honest guy sitting in front of me accepting responsibility and showing the need to right his wrong. Yes, the man I thought I married would not have had an EA but IF he did this is the conversation he would have about it. 

Any advice going forward? I still have the problem that he works right in her face all day long....(I expressed this anguish very clearly last night).It doesnt make me feel more comfortable today.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

If you trust him, open the lines of accountability. Have him get someone at work who will vouch for his integrity. Commit to him calling you during work to prove he's not hiding anything, or at least leaving his phone on so you can call him if you're having doubts.

He needs transparency with his work emails and work phone. He needs to be trying for a new job or a transfer if it is important to you.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

COguy said:


> If you trust him, open the lines of accountability. Have him get someone at work who will vouch for his integrity. Commit to him calling you during work to prove he's not hiding anything, or at least leaving his phone on so you can call him if you're having doubts.
> 
> He needs transparency with his work emails and work phone. He needs to be trying for a new job or a transfer if it is important to you.


Oh I never said I TRUSTED him. Thats gonna be a while. I dont think its gonna be while he is at this job, but who knows how long that will be? He is trying to get a new job. Really trying. Its a tough job market. Really hacks me that he put us in this spot. Anyway, he does leave his phone on but he cant always answer it. Even if i text him it can take an hour to answer(not so reasuring). Im not really sure what the answer here is. He says he will do a better job keeping in contact. I would love to have someone vouch for him but its a tough one b/c the OW is the bosslady so......


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

So the OW is his boss? You know that they would insist on transferring her if they knew about this right? You're not allowed to fraternize with your employees, major potential lawsuit.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Call me a reactionary if you must, but if what you say is true and he has yet to comply with your demands, then it's well beyond time to consult with your attorney regarding a divorce filing, and to "out" his boss and him at the company.

And to answer your original question, absolutely no sex with him during a 180. There's absolutely nothing in it for you anymore other than hurt and confusion. Best of luck to you, my dear!


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> Call me a reactionary if you must, but if what you say is true and he has yet to comply with your demands, then it's well beyond time to consult with your attorney regarding a divorce filing, and to "out" his boss and him at the company.
> 
> And to answer your original question, absolutely no sex with him during a 180. There's absolutely nothing in it for you anymore other than hurt and confusion. Best of luck to you, my dear!


ARb, you didnt read the post. He is complying with most things. He is doing ALOT. Im not anywhere close to ready to divorce him, yet. Not saying it wont come, but its not here. We have a long history. He has come clean on alot of things. however, he is still at this damned job. He is working at another job. He has interviewed and one in particular is looking promising. I agree, should the time come and she needs to be 'outed' ....it will happen.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> ARb, you didnt read the post. He is complying with most things. He is doing ALOT. Im not anywhere close to ready to divorce him, yet. Not saying it wont come, but its not here. We have a long history. He has come clean on alot of things. however, he is still at this damned job. He is working at another job. He has interviewed and one in particular is looking promising. I agree, should the time come and she needs to be 'outed' ....it will happen.


canttrustu: I apologetically stand corrected and am in total concurrance with your posting!


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