# Updating my Dating profiles for 2020. Wanted your thoughts/opinions



## JukeboxHero

Hey everyone,

A little about me. I'm 42 (43 on Nov. 21st ) cis-white male

I haven't done much dating since my divorce (2016), and I've had very little interest on my dating profile in 2019/Early 2020. In fact, I've barely been on OKC or any other sites in the past year (only a bit in 2019. where I met one girl and we messed around after a few dates)

However, a lot of things about me have changed since I initially created my profile back in 2017

I have a whole new look, I got lasik, shaved my head, grew a Goatee, etc. I'm also getting more into outdoor/adventure stuff.. including Scuba diving. 

So I plan on resetting my OKC profile and probably creating some new profiles on other dating sites. Starting fresh, essentially.
I have a few questions.

1. Since I have a new look, I want to get better photos and I think/hope, I'll get more attention. However, I don't have a lot of good photos yet (I rarely take photos of myself) only a few selfies. one with me in Scuba gear. I feel like I should get more photos of me enjoying my hobbies and I've heard it's also good to have photos of yourself with other people/in social settings so people know you have friends. Should I get these photos before restarting/creating my dating profiles?

2. How has the dating landscape changed since 2020 and COVID hit? Are more people doing virtual dates?

3. Lastly, once I get everything ready to go, I would love to get some opinions on my profile and photos (ideally from women). Are people here willing to provide that assistance?


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## Lila

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> A little about me. I'm 42 (43 on Nov. 21st ) cis-white male
> 
> I haven't done much dating since my divorce (2016), and I've had very little interest on my dating profile in 2019/Early 2020. In fact, I've barely been on OKC or any other sites in the past year (only a bit in 2019. where I met one girl and we messed around after a few dates)
> 
> However, a lot of things about me have changed since I initially created my profile back in 2017
> 
> I have a whole new look, I got lasik, shaved my head, grew a Goatee, etc. I'm also getting more into outdoor/adventure stuff.. including Scuba diving.
> 
> So I plan on resetting my OKC profile and probably creating some new profiles on other dating sites. Starting fresh, essentially.
> I have a few questions.
> 
> 1. Since I have a new look, I want to get better photos and I think/hope, I'll get more attention. However, I don't have a lot of good photos yet (I rarely take photos of myself) only a few selfies. one with me in Scuba gear. I feel like I should get more photos of me enjoying my hobbies and I've heard it's also good to have photos of yourself with other people/in social settings so people know you have friends. Should I get these photos before restarting/creating my dating profiles?
> 
> 2. How has the dating landscape changed since 2020 and COVID hit? Are more people doing virtual dates?
> 
> 3. Lastly, once I get everything ready to go, I would love to get some opinions on my profile and photos (ideally from women). Are people here willing to provide that assistance?


I'd be happy to take a look at your profile and give you feedback but I'm going to suggest something completely different. 

Don't do online dating. Instead, participate in the activities you enjoy (scuba diving, outdoor adventure type stuff) . I say this for two reasons. 1) OLD is a **** show based on superficial characteristics and 2) you are more likely to meet someone compatible doing the things you enjoy but even if you don't, you're guaranteed to have a good time doing that activity.


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## WandaJ

There is nothing wring with online dating. Most of my friends find their partners that way. 
for me dating would be easier than joing group of strangers to do something. I am
More one on one person.


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## DownByTheRiver

Ladies, how do you feel about goatees? Yay or nay?


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## NextTimeAround

Go to meetup acitivities. That's how I met my second husband. I bet there is a scuba meetup. If it's not local, then consider traveling. A lot of the meetups organize some pretty nice trips.


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## WandaJ

But he asked specifically for help with a dating profile....


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## NextTimeAround

WandaJ said:


> But he asked specifically for help with a dating profile....


yes, and .....?


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## OnTheFly

Pro Tip: do not accept a blind date request from a profile wearing a mask.


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## Spicy

1. Yes get some great pictures first.
2. N/A
3. I would be happy to look and critique. 

@DownByTheRiver A big no for me on the goatee. I would not accept a date with a guy who had one, because I have never found them attractive personally.


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## WandaJ

About goatee: I generally prefer men without facial hair but there are some mem that actually look good with it


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## ewam

im a big fan of men with beards, so big yes to goatee


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## bobsmith

Pro tips.
You may want to ignore a lot of advice you get, because some people are not even in the USA, let alone your geo area. I got advice years ago here, some was good, some was not, because it was NOT who I was. Some recommended skinny jeans and boat shoes. My best friends would slap me for that BS. It might be more socially accepted where you are, but I can tell you nearly every date or woman I have been with have commented on my well fitted jeans and boots. That is the sort of evidence you want to get from "prospects", not people on the net. Do NOT ask "how do I look, EVER"..... That has desperation written all over it.

I run with a stubble look. I personally think the goat thing is, uh, just a no..... Lost count of women that have to touch my face. I cannot stand the "ragged" half grown look. Solid advice here, if you go for a "rough" look, you still need to trim or edge. I see so many that just let all go. That is not a refined look, that just looks unkept.

Lose the selfie pics with your camera. Women are notorious for this. Try harder. Do NOT get all wound up about getting your hobbies all in there. I have played guitar for 30yrs. Not one pic of an axe in my hand. Just say "play guitars"....Enough said, and most women will bring it up. They know how to read.

Me personally, if you or the other are unwilling to actually meet due to the C19 BS, just forget it. I wasted too much time chit chatting with women, then there becomes some sort of fantasy relationship, then you meet and realize in 15sec, NOPE!!!!! And you have to send them...... I will try to be nice in this thread, but I have mentioned false advertising before. Look up my OLD thread. No body pics? NOPE!

But hey, maybe you can snag a few dates to learn more about your look. Just be careful that you are not rolling with advice from women you are not attracted to.

I also think only certain types are into a shaved head. If you still have hair, dice carefully here. All my ex's and many other dates have commented that they are not into bald heads. BUT, some just are! You will have to figure that one out. Most shave when they have lost too much hair and it does help bring at least a younger look. It does again depend on your geo area too. I think in the warmer areas, where the beach body is a thing, there are a LOT of meat heads that live at the gym and do shave their head, so it may be more socially accepted.


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## JukeboxHero

NextTimeAround said:


> Go to meetup acitivities. That's how I met my second husband. I bet there is a scuba meetup. If it's not local, then consider traveling. A lot of the meetups organize some pretty nice trips.


There is a Scuba Meetup. I live in Columbus, OH which has a very active Scuba community. Every weekend they have "scuba camp" essentially where they permanently reserve a campground (or at least for entire summer) where the instructors will bring classes/students for check-out dives, along other diving for fun. I actually met 2 girls there who I considered attractive and I got their numbers under the proposition of "we should go diving at X place sometime and be dive buddies, etc" One of them has a BF, though.. the other didn't seem that interested in me for anything other than being "dive buddies". I don't know if I want to try and ask her out for coffee/drinks or not. 



@DownByTheRiver A big no for me on the goatee. I would not accept a date with a guy who had one, because I have never found them attractive personally.
[/QUOTE]



WandaJ said:


> About goatee: I generally prefer men without facial hair but there are some mem that actually look good with it


I mean I can always shave that. I'm not attached to it.



bobsmith said:


> Pro tips.
> You may want to ignore a lot of advice you get, because some people are not even in the USA, let alone your geo area. I got advice years ago here, some was good, some was not, because it was NOT who I was. Some recommended skinny jeans and boat shoes. My best friends would slap me for that BS. It might be more socially accepted where you are, but I can tell you nearly every date or woman I have been with have commented on my well fitted jeans and boots. That is the sort of evidence you want to get from "prospects", not people on the net. Do NOT ask "how do I look, EVER"..... That has desperation written all over it.
> 
> I run with a stubble look. I personally think the goat thing is, uh, just a no..... Lost count of women that have to touch my face. I cannot stand the "ragged" half grown look. Solid advice here, if you go for a "rough" look, you still need to trim or edge. I see so many that just let all go. That is not a refined look, that just looks unkept.
> 
> Lose the selfie pics with your camera. Women are notorious for this. Try harder. Do NOT get all wound up about getting your hobbies all in there. I have played guitar for 30yrs. Not one pic of an axe in my hand. Just say "play guitars"....Enough said, and most women will bring it up. They know how to read.
> 
> Me personally, if you or the other are unwilling to actually meet due to the C19 BS, just forget it. I wasted too much time chit chatting with women, then there becomes some sort of fantasy relationship, then you meet and realize in 15sec, NOPE!!!!! And you have to send them...... I will try to be nice in this thread, but I have mentioned false advertising before. Look up my OLD thread. No body pics? NOPE!
> 
> But hey, maybe you can snag a few dates to learn more about your look. Just be careful that you are not rolling with advice from women you are not attracted to.
> 
> I also think only certain types are into a shaved head. If you still have hair, dice carefully here. All my ex's and many other dates have commented that they are not into bald heads. BUT, some just are! You will have to figure that one out. Most shave when they have lost too much hair and it does help bring at least a younger look. It does again depend on your geo area too. I think in the warmer areas, where the beach body is a thing, there are a LOT of meat heads that live at the gym and do shave their head, so it may be more socially accepted.


I agree on these forums you can get a lot of good and bad advice. Maybe I should ask locally too? 
However, I do want to know what people think of my look, hearing people say my new look is an improvement encourages me and gives me confidence... but in the long run there is only so much I can do about my hair/head. 
Honestly, the shaved head thing has grown on me and the only alternative would letting my hair "grow" again.. but it would be noticeably thinning hair, a bald spot and receding hair line. I can barely try to cover and it looks obvious to anyone when I do (unless they're too short to see the top of my head). Most people have said they like my new look. and I've gotten lots of compliments without asking, but I'm sure some people would say they don't like it. 

So, you said to Nix a lot of pics, Selfies I can understand, but I think I need some good pics of hobbies. I also need a decent close-up and full body shot. I was told by one of my friends that I should have group pics/pics with friends, but I'm also reading a lot of advice saying this is a bad idea. Coincidentally, this is the one pic I was waiting on because I rarely get the chance to hang out with groups of people.. other than the weekends I go to Scuba camp. And then I feel like it's a bit of an imposition to randomly ask people to take a group photo with me.


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## WandaJ

JukeboxHero said:


> There is a Scuba Meetup. I live in Columbus, OH which has a very active Scuba community. Every weekend they have "scuba camp" essentially where they permanently reserve a campground (or at least for entire summer) where the instructors will bring classes/students for check-out dives, along other diving for fun. I actually met 2 girls there who I considered attractive and I got their numbers under the proposition of "we should go diving at X place sometime and be dive buddies, etc" One of them has a BF, though.. the other didn't seem that interested in me for anything other than being "dive buddies". I don't know if I want to try and ask her out for coffee/drinks or not.
> 
> 
> 
> @DownByTheRiver A big no for me on the goatee. I would not accept a date with a guy who had one, because I have never found them attractive personally.


Honestly, the shaved head thing has grown on me and the only alternative would letting my hair "grow" again.. but it would be noticeably thinning hair, a bald spot and receding hair line. I can barely try to cover and it looks obvious to anyone when I do (unless they're too short to see the top of my head). Most people have said they like my new look. and I've gotten lots of compliments without asking, but I'm sure some people would say they don't like it.

[/QUOTE]

How old are you? I have just turned 50 and bald heads are just part of our demographics. I'd rather have bald head than three hair combed across pretending they cover something First one can be sexy, second - in no circumstanes will be sexy...
Redirect Notice


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## WandaJ

Nothing wrong with this bold head....


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## Rowan

OP, in online dating, as with most things, confidence is a huge factor. So, I highly recommend that you get a look you're comfortable with and like. After that, don't worry too much about what women think of your look. Unless it's really 'out there', there will be some portion of the female population who is into it. But being overly self-conscious and concerned about other people's opinions of you will be a turn-off to many women - and certainly to most, if not all, quality prospective partners. 

Get someone to take some decent pictures of you. A female friend or relative you trust would be a good idea. I had a wine night with a girlfriend to get some good pictures - a few different locations/backgrounds, some with friends and some alone, a few different outfit changes, and a whole lot of fun. I wound up with 10 or so very good pictures that I used interchangeably for my OLD profiles. And none of them looked like not-me or like I was trying too hard. 

Don't showcase yourself as someone you're not. Don't wear skinny jeans and Vans if you wouldn't be caught dead in that sort of thing on the daily. Don't wear a suit if you don't wear one occasionally in real life. Don't dress like a cowboy or a gym rat or a hunter if those aren't really you. Your photos and your profiles should reflect who you really are. But they don't need to reflect every facet of your personality. Women are more likely than men to actually read your profile, so you don't need a photo as evidence of every single important point about you - use your words.

But the biggest factor is this: Don't lie. Don't lie (or hedge or evade or encourage the wrong perceptions) about your age, your height, your weight, your marital or relationship status or history, your hobbies or your beliefs. He honest and realistic about what you're looking for in a partner and about what you bring to the table - to yourself and to others. Know yourself, be honest about yourself, be confident. Some woman, somewhere, will find that attractive.


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## bobsmith

WandaJ said:


> Nothing wrong with this bold head....
> View attachment 71803


See, this is what I am talking about. Some women here think this is a good look and I think it looks like an old guy trying to style WAY too hard and those threads belong on a teenager. They give out those shoes at the nursing home!

But I do agree an meant to mention about the "work what ya got". Can't grow out hair you don't have so bald might be the only answer. As well on facial hair, I see a lot of men that just can't grow it on their jaw line or its patchy. Gotta use what you have.

And.......like I can smell the lack of confidence from here. You need to step away from that and stop reaching for compliments. I swear women can smell it a mile away. They will act like it is endearing, then they walk.

You have apparently been reading a LOT of click bait OLD pages about "how to wow women 101, click here". If you don't have a lot of group pics, you just don't use them. You are worried about your hobbies. Don't make that your whole life. It's like a teen girl that just got a puppy and now wants every soul to see her new puppy. I guarantee you, you go on a date and 90% of your convo is about SCUBA, they are going to walk realizing that is your whole life......

ONE PICTURE of SCUBA, ONE! Remember, I have 30yrs playing guitar. I have no pic, only mentioned "play guitars"..... But I will mention, 95% of the women I have been around are totally mesmerized when I play. I highly recommend! lol It's sort of like an unfair advantage. 

You have read something about "what you need in your profile". Ignore it other than have some decent pics man! The reality is don't be fake. When you practically have to pay for a group photo,then your date wants to 'hang out with your friends'..... Some women are loners too, and they are may best for you. They will also have lots of free time..


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## bobsmith

deleted. duplicate.


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## TomNebraska

JukeboxHero said:


> ...
> 
> 1. Since I have a new look, I want to get better photos and I think/hope, I'll get more attention. However, I don't have a lot of good photos yet (I rarely take photos of myself) only a few selfies. one with me in Scuba gear. I feel like I should get more photos of me enjoying my hobbies and I've heard it's also good to have photos of yourself with other people/in social settings so people know you have friends. Should I get these photos before restarting/creating my dating profiles?
> 
> 2. How has the dating landscape changed since 2020 and COVID hit? Are more people doing virtual dates?
> 
> 3. Lastly, once I get everything ready to go, I would love to get some opinions on my profile and photos (ideally from women). Are people here willing to provide that assistance?


1) yes; photos are important. They should be of yourself... group photos are a little ridiculous. People are looking for one another, not groups of friends.

I think honesty is the best policy, and that goes for pictures too. Have some that capture your best physical qualities, without presenting a false image of who you are.

2) I've heard virtual dates are a thing now, yes. If I was still in the market, I'd probably make sure I understood that the other person was being cautious (if not remaining socially isolated) before meeting up with them. I think I'd want to have 2-3 virtual dates to get to know them first. 

2a) The dating site might vary in quality in your area. I used to do OKC when I lived in a different city, 10 years ago. I had a lot of fun. 

I tried it again after my divorce, and found there were very few quality ladies on there I wanted to meet. Some female coworkers told me to ditch it, and go with Bumble if I wanted to meet nicer, better educated, more professional women... and I found they were right.


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## JukeboxHero

Hey Bob,
Thanks for your advice.. but I do have some questions and I feel like there may be some misunderstandings here.



bobsmith said:


> And.......like I can smell the lack of confidence from here. You need to step away from that and stop reaching for compliments. I swear women can smell it a mile away. They will act like it is endearing, then they walk.


I'm not saying you're wrong, but what did I say that makes you think I lack confidence and I'm "fishing for compliments"?



bobsmith said:


> You have apparently been reading a LOT of click bait OLD pages about "how to wow women 101, click here". If you don't have a lot of group pics, you just don't use them. You are worried about your hobbies. Don't make that your whole life. It's like a teen girl that just got a puppy and now wants every soul to see her new puppy. I guarantee you, you go on a date and 90% of your convo is about SCUBA, they are going to walk realizing that is your whole life......
> ONE PICTURE of SCUBA, ONE! Remember, I have 30yrs playing guitar. I have no pic, only mentioned "play guitars"..... But I will mention, 95% of the women I have been around are totally mesmerized when I play. I highly recommend! lol It's sort of like an unfair advantage.


Again, what did I say that made you think that I'm reading "How to WOW woman 101". I did read some articles, but the only thing thing I took from those articles was "Have a good close-up".. so you know, people can see what your face looks. A full body shot (even you said you wouldn't like a person who didn't have one) 
Lastly, the "articles" said to NOT worry about having a group photo... so they agreed with what you just told me.. but you're telling me to NOT take their advice?? 
The only person that told me I NEED a group photo was this friend of mine.
Outside of that, I just plan on having pics of various things I enjoy doing, kayaking, diving, hiking, etc.

That IMHO, is being "real" and not being fake.

I mean, idk what else I would want to have photos of.. unless I just try to some pose for the camera of me standing somewhere smiling?





bobsmith said:


> You have read something about "what you need in your profile". Ignore it other than have some decent pics man! The reality is don't be fake. When you practically have to pay for a group photo,then your date wants to 'hang out with your friends'..... Some women are loners too, and they are may best for you. They will also have lots of free time..


I'm confused by this statement too. You just spend that the last few posts telling me to nix selfies, and that most women aren't into bald-heads and goatess. Now you're saying not to worry about "what I need in my profile" and just get decent pics?

Also, why do you think I would have to "pay people" to take a group photo with me?? I have friends, I just typically find it awkward to ask them to sit close to me and get a group photo for my dating profile. 

Also, I wouldn't consider myself a loner. I feel much better when I'm with small groups of people and have somewhat of a social life. I usually a bit down and discouraged if I'm alone too often or for long periods of time.

Oh yea, @WandaJ I'm 42.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Just put down financially stable, have money to burn, healthy, like to travel to exotic locations or take long motorcycle rides on my cruiser, take a pic out by your pool as you're grilling in a Hawaiian shirt, ball cap, wearing ray bans, listening to tunes.

They'll line up.


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## Not

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Just put down financially stable, have money to burn, healthy, like to travel to exotic locations or take long motorcycle rides on my cruiser, take a pic out by your pool as you're grilling in a Hawaiian shirt, ball cap, wearing ray bans, listening to tunes.
> 
> They'll line up.


This is so true! BUT...this is the type of guy I personally would have avoided. That kind of profile would have told me the guy is one of two things. Either a player who's not serious or a total idiot lol!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Not said:


> This is so true! BUT...this is the type of guy I personally would have avoided. That kind of profile would have told me the guy is one of two things. Either a player who's not serious or a total idiot lol!


I know, but many would jump in for a quick check, knowing they'd likely be safe, not have to pay for anything, and pretty sure a date wouldn't be a Big Mac meal!

Of those, during a meet, the personality could come out and secure some second dates, and who knows?


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## blahfridge

Don't go overboard with the adventure stuff, that can be intimidating for some women who might otherwise be a good match. Not everyone wants to go cycling, scuba-diving, hang-gliding, climb Mt. Everest, etc. Just list what hobbies are most important to you and then whether it's important that a partner share the same interest.


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## StuartV

> There is nothing wring with online dating. Most of my friends find their partners that way.
> for me dating would be easier than joing group of strangers to do something. I am
> More one on one person.


Yeah, all kinds of dating are good in their sense. In that way I can tell you my little story about how I met my wife. It wasn't something special but I really wasn't expecting such thing, I mean find my beloved person by dating site, more other It wasn't a simple dating site, It's adult dating site which is great in all senses, it even helped me to forgot about depression and to become self-confident person. Someone recommended me to go hook up dating understand how things with girls work, so I followed that suggest so now I know how they think and proceed that's why I recommend this site to you, maybe you'll find someone who will interest you.


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## JukeboxHero

Thanks for your comments everyone,

This is my profile as it was written 3-4 years ago, some things still apply, like my goals in physicals fitness, cooking, desire for travel adventure, still love playing board/cards games and strategy stuff, but much less MTG, video games and such. Regrettably, I'm not able to do Gardening atm, but I'll obviously change all that when I fully update my profile.


































And here are my photos Pre-2019 (when I got Lasik and shaved my head... grew a Goatee in 2020)


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## JukeboxHero

And this is my updated appearance as of 2020


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## C.C. says ...

I like it! 😀 The goatee and shaved head after pics make you look like an entirely different person! Are you going to include some of each on the profile? You should. They both are nice but just seeing the different sides of you is cool.

I don’t know much about online dating profiles but it seems pretty good to me. I think the humor thrown in there was cute. (“Banana pancakes? Awesome banana omelette not so much” etc..)

I think you’ve given a whole lot of info about yourself and having a lot of different pics was really nice. My favorite pic is this one:https://www.talkaboutmarriage.com/attachments/1603197146429-png.72186/ because it’s just hilarious. The dramatic looking to the sky. I love a comedian lol.

I’d take out the very first line though. “I genuinely care about people.” Only because being a cynic, I immediately found myself sayin yea yea sure you do and rolling my eyes.  Not that I don’t believe you, I just think it’s something better left to be discovered. Oh and who is the little girl in the last pic with you? Is it your daughter? Because you didn’t mention anything about her. I’m trying to figure out if that’s a done on purpose type of thing.

Those are just my first thoughts. I’m sure other people might have better ideas. I just mainly wanted to say that I thought it was good and good on you for having guts to put yourself out there like that, both on the dating site and here to be critiqued. I came away smiling from your profile. It was humorous and cute. Thanks. Good luck to you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Maybe not mention the Rav 4?

Otherwise looks good?


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## C.C. says ...

P.S. I didn’t mean anything snarky about the little girl pic. The more I think about it, I think if it is your daughter, anyone would get the whole picture from the photo alone. Nothing is more off putting than reading about how “my kids are my heart and life and you’ll need to pass the sniff test to be considered as a potential partner. “ no really. It’s hard enough probably to date a single dad and we already know that anyone’s child is their heart and soul and whole life and most important in front of any potential woman so sometimes, well... it’s just off putting. Lol. So doing it this way. One pic of her with her dad. They’ll immediately just say oh ok he has a little girl. Awww. And understand that there’s that. 

If she isn’t your little girl though, don’t include it. Unless you say “love my niece” or something. Then you can still play that ‘I’m good with children’ angle.

Alright I’m just rambling now ... 🤡


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## Rowan

I agree: Children in profile photos need some explanation if they aren't yours. So if that's not your daughter, you should caption it with a description of the relationship. Or leave it out entirely. 

If that _is_ your daughter, then you need to make it clear in your profile that you're a father. Maybe replace the bit about the Rav4 with some mention about spending quality time with your child(ren).


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## JukeboxHero

C.C. says ... said:


> I like it! 😀 The goatee and shaved head after pics make you look like an entirely different person! Are you going to include some of each on the profile? You should. They both are nice but just seeing the different sides of you is cool.
> 
> I don’t know much about online dating profiles but it seems pretty good to me. I think the humor thrown in there was cute. (“Banana pancakes? Awesome banana omelette not so much” etc..)
> 
> I think you’ve given a whole lot of info about yourself and having a lot of different pics was really nice. My favorite pic is this one:https://www.talkaboutmarriage.com/attachments/1603197146429-png.72186/ because it’s just hilarious. The dramatic looking to the sky. I love a comedian lol.
> 
> I’d take out the very first line though. “I genuinely care about people.” Only because being a cynic, I immediately found myself sayin yea yea sure you do and rolling my eyes.  Not that I don’t believe you, I just think it’s something better left to be discovered. Oh and who is the little girl in the last pic with you? Is it your daughter? Because you didn’t mention anything about her. I’m trying to figure out if that’s a done on purpose type of thing.
> 
> Those are just my first thoughts. I’m sure other people might have better ideas. I just mainly wanted to say that I thought it was good and good on you for having guts to put yourself out there like that, both on the dating site and here to be critiqued. I came away smiling from your profile. It was humorous and cute. Thanks. Good luck to you.


Thank you so much for your comments and suggestions C.C.
1. I assume it's best if I completely replace all of my old pics with my new ones as I don't want to be misleading about my appearance?? Is that correct? Idk..maybe I can keep a few. I assume I would remove all the pics of me with glasses, though, since I don't have them now due to Lasik.
2. The little girl is my niece and in general I love kids, but I don't have any of my own. I can absolutely say something about this is my niece, or not include it all. 
I have other pics where I'm playing with some kids that belong to my in-laws.


3. I can remove the line about caring for other people. Maybe I should just start volunteering (something I need to do MORE of) and I can add something like that to SHOW That I care about helping other people.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Maybe not mention the Rav 4?
> 
> Otherwise looks good?


Thanks, I can do that...What's wrong with the Rav4, though.. just curious?? Also, what do you think of the old pics vs new pics?


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## C.C. says ...

JukeboxHero said:


> Thank you so much for your comments and suggestions C.C.
> 1. I assume it's best if I completely replace all of my old pics with my new ones as I don't want to be misleading about my appearance?? Is that correct? Idk..maybe I can keep a few. I assume I would remove all the pics of me with glasses, though, since I don't have them now due to Lasik.
> 2. The little girl is my niece and in general I love kids, but I don't have any of my own. I have other pics where I'm playing with some kids that belong to my in-laws.
> 3. I can remove the line about caring for other people. Maybe I should just start volunteering (something I need to do MORE of) and I can add something like that to SHOW That I care about helping other people.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I can do that...What's wrong with the Rav4, though.. just curious?? Also, what do you think of the old pics vs new pics?


No. I don’t think you’re being misleading at all! You’re showing different looks. Even the glasses one. It’s just a different look. Plus could be a topic of conversation about your experience with the Lasik.

Oh yea definitely if you include your niece in a pic, say it’s your niece or everyone will think it’s your daughter for sure.

As for your number 3. Yep!


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## ewam

i personally think that you should only put current pictures, maybe just one old(writing on it when it was taken ) but joined together with new one and you can put in description something like:i think im aging quite well


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## Livvie

I think if you are going to post a picture of someone else's minor child on a dating site you should get permission from both of the parents. Really.

That being said, I'd not include it at all. 

I could tell you what people say about Rav4s and the stereotype of who drives them around here, but it's totally not politically correct and would be offensive to write.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

JukeboxHero said:


> Thank you so much for your comments and suggestions C.C.
> 1. I assume it's best if I completely replace all of my old pics with my new ones as I don't want to be misleading about my appearance?? Is that correct? Idk..maybe I can keep a few. I assume I would remove all the pics of me with glasses, though, since I don't have them now due to Lasik.
> 2. The little girl is my niece and in general I love kids, but I don't have any of my own. I can absolutely say something about this is my niece, or not include it all.
> I have other pics where I'm playing with some kids that belong to my in-laws.
> 
> 
> 3. I can remove the line about caring for other people. Maybe I should just start volunteering (something I need to do MORE of) and I can add something like that to SHOW That I care about helping other people.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I can do that...What's wrong with the Rav4, though.. just curious?? Also, what do you think of the old pics vs new pics?


In some locations the Rav 4 is considered to be a woman's SUV, and or someone's SUV that couldn't handle a full size truck nor SUV.

Yes, it's not PC, but it comes up from others, I've heard consistently over the years. I don't have one, just sharing. 

Only women own the one's I see.

But hey, each to their own.

But man you're rockin the goatee, and outdoor look.

Keep the goatee pics, maybe limit the earlier pics.

I dunno. That's just me.

Good luck!


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## Bluesclues

FYI. You have an extra word in the first sentence - “and trying TO new things”. Other than that I really liked your profile. The new look suits you very well, but I am a goatee gal.


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## Spicy

You look sweet. If I was single I would be happy to meet you.


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## Openminded

Lose the “old look“ photos. The “new look” works much better for you. Keeping a child that isn’t yours in the photos depends on who you are trying to attract. Good for women who have children; not as good for women who don’t want children and who also don’t read explanations about them.

The RAV4 does have a reputation as a woman’s SUV in my area. More women in general buy it than men although I don’t think it’s a huge percentage. Around here (large metro area) when I see one it’s usually a woman driving it but your area could be totally different.


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## JukeboxHero

blahfridge said:


> Don't go overboard with the adventure stuff, that can be intimidating for some women who might otherwise be a good match. Not everyone wants to go cycling, scuba-diving, hang-gliding, climb Mt. Everest, etc. Just list what hobbies are most important to you and then whether it's important that a partner share the same interest.


Lol, I mean.. I'm not quite that ambitious, it's mostly laid back stuff like hiking, kayaking, diving, camping... pretty leisurely, I just enjoy outdoors and adventure-type stuff. But, I also have my indoor Boardgaming or Netflix/Chill side. 



Livvie said:


> I think if you are going to post a picture of someone else's minor child on a dating site you should get permission from both of the parents. Really.
> 
> That being said, I'd not include it at all.
> 
> I could tell you what people say about Rav4s and the stereotype of who drives them around here, but it's totally not politically correct and would be offensive to write.


The more I think about it, the more I think it's best to include it. As much as I love playing with my nieces and nephews, I feel somewhat hesitant to date a women with kids. I'm sure I will have to eventually, but I guess I'm concerned about the added complexity and responsibility in the relationship. 



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> In some locations the Rav 4 is considered to be a woman's SUV, and or someone's SUV that couldn't handle a full size truck nor SUV.
> 
> Yes, it's not PC, but it comes up from others, I've heard consistently over the years. I don't have one, just sharing.
> 
> Only women own the one's I see.
> 
> But hey, each to their own.
> 
> But man you're rockin the goatee, and outdoor look.
> 
> Keep the goatee pics, maybe limit the earlier pics.
> 
> I dunno. That's just me.
> 
> Good luck!


Thank YOU for finally explaining it. I totally get it now and I can easily eliminate that from my profile. Thanks also for the compliments. I do enjoy my new look. 



Spicy said:


> You look sweet. If I was single I would be happy to meet you.


TY Spicy, I try to be sweet, but also want to be a bit spicy too!

With that being said, I may keep 1 older pic, but like @Openminded said, I'm a much bigger fan of my newer style/pics. I think I'm still going to get some better pic options and probably be updating my profile soon.


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## Spicy

TY Spicy said:


> @Openminded[/USER] said, I'm a much bigger fan of my newer style/pics. I think I'm still going to get some better pic options and probably be updating my profile soon.


Well, us girls that are worth it, love the Spicy too! I wish you the best. I hated braggart profiles. So bravo on avoiding any of that nonsense.


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## heartsbeating

JukeboxHero said:


> View attachment 72186
> 
> View attachment 72190
> 
> View attachment 72192


I think these 3 photos are great. I wouldn't include the photo with your niece. Like others, I wondered if it was your daughter; although I did think if she was your daughter and you were sharing on your dating profile, that you might be more inclined to have your arms wrapped around her. So that had me temporarily puzzled.

Okay, so take my advice with a grain of salt and I'm happy for others to disagree with me. Here's the thing, I've been with my guy for nearly 26 years, met through a hobby, have never been near a dating site... so with that declaration in mind, here's what I have to offer. I've read here the comparison between dating and job interviews, so as the hiring manager, when I review applications I am mostly skimming and keywords jump out at me. The CV is to gain an interview. When I read your profile, what I felt may need adjusting, if I was skim-reading, would to have it be more 'pointy'. What I mean is, you mention that you 'love to travel' and 'spend time thinking about travel' but what does that really look like? Does this mean traveling interstate - internationally - cruising - trekking - backpacking - tours?

_I love to travel. Kayaking the Milford Sound in New Zealand remains a highlight. _

Or, as you mentioned Anthony Bourdain (which I think you ought to update), maybe it's mentioning a local cuisine you experienced in your travels (whatever those travels may mean).

Okay, I don't mean to be a harsh critic with this next part - but I'm not a fan of what someone intends to do. Either you're doing it or you're not. So with the art and GoPro footage, mention it if you're actually doing it. Otherwise, it's just words. Similar to 'thinking about the environment' what does that actually look like in terms of actions? If it's not significant, let it go. And the caring about others part is nice, yet again, there's no connection of what that actually means. It could mean that you're courteous and compassionate; it could mean that you serve the community. That could be made evident, but otherwise, I'd personally let that go too. As well as mentioning the car. I'd think about someone skim-reading. When I'm reviewing job applications, the ones that are solid and succinct in their experiences and what they're about stand out more. Not that my post to you is particularly succinct..!

What did stand out to me, was the solid sense and passion for outdoor hobbies, gaming, open to meeting people, cooking, and I particularly liked the part about how you make up lyrics... it gives insight to your personality and is relatable.

There you have it - an opinion from a woman who knows NOTHING about online dating.

Best wishes!


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## heartsbeating

C.C. says ... said:


> I just mainly wanted to say that I thought it was good and good on you for having guts to put yourself out there like that, both on the dating site and here to be critiqued.


And... I absolutely echo this sentiment!


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## JukeboxHero

heartsbeating said:


> I think these 3 photos are great. I wouldn't include the photo with your niece. Like others, I wondered if it was your daughter; although I did think if she was your daughter and you were sharing on your dating profile, that you might be more inclined to have your arms wrapped around her. So that had me temporarily puzzled.
> 
> Okay, so take my advice with a grain of salt and I'm happy for others to disagree with me. Here's the thing, I've been with my guy for nearly 26 years, met through a hobby, have never been near a dating site... so with that declaration in mind, here's what I have to offer. I've read here the comparison between dating and job interviews, so as the hiring manager, when I review applications I am mostly skimming and keywords jump out at me. The CV is to gain an interview. When I read your profile, what I felt may need adjusting, if I was skim-reading, would to have it be more 'pointy'. What I mean is, you mention that you 'love to travel' and 'spend time thinking about travel' but what does that really look like? Does this mean traveling interstate - internationally - cruising - trekking - backpacking - tours?
> 
> _I love to travel. Kayaking the Milford Sound in New Zealand remains a highlight. _
> 
> Or, as you mentioned Anthony Bourdain (which I think you ought to update), maybe it's mentioning a local cuisine you experienced in your travels (whatever those travels may mean).
> 
> Okay, I don't mean to be a harsh critic with this next part - but I'm not a fan of what someone intends to do. Either you're doing it or you're not. So with the art and GoPro footage, mention it if you're actually doing it. Otherwise, it's just words. Similar to 'thinking about the environment' what does that actually look like in terms of actions? If it's not significant, let it go. And the caring about others part is nice, yet again, there's no connection of what that actually means. It could mean that you're courteous and compassionate; it could mean that you serve the community. That could be made evident, but otherwise, I'd personally let that go too. As well as mentioning the car. I'd think about someone skim-reading. When I'm reviewing job applications, the ones that are solid and succinct in their experiences and what they're about stand out more. Not that my post to you is particularly succinct..!
> 
> What did stand out to me, was the solid sense and passion for outdoor hobbies, gaming, open to meeting people, cooking, and I particularly liked the part about how you make up lyrics... it gives insight to your personality and is relatable.
> 
> There you have it - an opinion from a woman who knows NOTHING about online dating.
> 
> Best wishes!



This is some awesome advice @heartsbeating. Lucky for you, never having to have gone through online dating. 

I will absolutely apply these changes/ideas. Since I created this profile, I have accomplished some of my goals; I got certified for scuba, traveled to Bonaire, etc. and I'm working towards others (working towards film-editing/trying to make films with GoPro Footage).


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## heartsbeating

JukeboxHero said:


> This is some awesome advice @heartsbeating. Lucky for you, never having to have gone through online dating.
> 
> I will absolutely apply these changes/ideas. Since I created this profile, I have accomplished some of my goals; I got certified for scuba, traveled to Bonaire, etc. and I'm working towards others (working towards film-editing/trying to make films with GoPro Footage).


Well, whether it's good advice or not will tell in the connections made! And I've never read any profiles, so have no idea what people tend to write or share. Admittedly, I'd be hard-pressed to write a profile and choose photos... yet you are taking that leap and I hope it goes well for you!

However, I'd also suggest leaving some things to talk and connect about in person... my completely non-experienced take on this would be just highlighting a few main areas that you wish to connect upon with another; rather than sharing all of your hobbies and goals on the profile. I'd personally see it as sharing 'enough' to potentially make connections.

I really like the 'personality' aspects which come across - such as going somewhere spontaneously, trying new things and having a sense of humor if they don't work out (the banana omelettes), connection with your dad to build furniture, being outdoors with your preferred activities, being goofy with making up lyrics, and seemingly quite sociable.

Anyway, good luck! Keep us updated with your journey.


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## heartsbeating

JukeboxHero said:


> This is some awesome advice @heartsbeating. Lucky for you, never having to have gone through online dating.
> 
> I will absolutely apply these changes/ideas. Since I created this profile, I have accomplished some of my goals; I got certified for scuba, traveled to Bonaire, etc. and I'm working towards others (working towards film-editing/trying to make films with GoPro Footage).


Also well done on achieving your scuba certification and your travels to Bonaire. I just googled it - waters look stunning!


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## heartsbeating

And for what it's worth (because I recognize I have no business really being in this part of the forum), I would imagine you would want to attract someone who is into similar activities - or wiling to join in? A woman that thinks 'I love kayaking / scuba diving / gaming' too!

The first time I kayaked was actually the Milford Sound. I was going for the boat journey and then the option to kayak came up. Batman really wanted to, so I gave it a try... but lemme tell ya, I was really scared haha. Anyway, got out onto the water and the guide told us we may come across seal or dolphins. I remember my kayak getting quite shaky, particularly as I have a (perhaps irrational) fear of sharks and figured if they come into this area, then a shark could too. I stayed out for a while and the darker it got, the more freaked out I felt, and remember paddling back to the boat with Batman chuckling nearby. We didn't see any marine life but the journey getting back to that boat felt so far away! Photo for kicks n giggles. Anyway, I hope you are able to connect with others who potentially share similar passions and personalities etc that match. All the best!


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## RandomDude

I've always prefered offline dating, besides it's easier to court a stunner in real life than in online dating. Online you have to compete with thousands of emails and hope she may even get to read yours, offline the odds are more in your favor. That said, I've dabbled... 😐

My profile was more in the lines of "ERROR: Information confidential, TOP SECRET clearance required, apply for further access". 
And with something that retarded I got around a 33% response rate across three dating sites if I recall. From what I heard as a dude that's considered good.


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## JukeboxHero

heartsbeating said:


> And for what it's worth (because I recognize I have no business really being in this part of the forum), I would imagine you would want to attract someone who is into similar activities - or wiling to join in? A woman that thinks 'I love kayaking / scuba diving / gaming' too!
> 
> The first time I kayaked was actually the Milford Sound. I was going for the boat journey and then the option to kayak came up. Batman really wanted to, so I gave it a try... but lemme tell ya, I was really scared haha. Anyway, got out onto the water and the guide told us we may come across seal or dolphins. I remember my kayak getting quite shaky, particularly as I have a (perhaps irrational) fear of sharks and figured if they come into this area, then a shark could too. I stayed out for a while and the darker it got, the more freaked out I felt, and remember paddling back to the boat with Batman chuckling nearby. We didn't see any marine life but the journey getting back to that boat felt so far away! Photo for kicks n giggles. Anyway, I hope you are able to connect with others who potentially share similar passions and personalities etc that match. All the best!


Absolutely! For any relationship, I would definitely want to meet someone who shares at least one or two of my interests or hobbies, especially the one I'm currently most passionate about; Scuba diving. The good new is, there seem to be a good mix of male/female participants in these activities. 



RandomDude said:


> I've always prefered offline dating, besides it's easier to court a stunner in real life than in online dating. Online you have to compete with thousands of emails and hope she may even get to read yours, offline the odds are more in your favor. That said, I've dabbled... 😐
> 
> My profile was more in the lines of "ERROR: Information confidential, TOP SECRET clearance required, apply for further access".
> And with something that retarded I got around a 33% response rate across three dating sites if I recall. From what I heard as a dude that's considered good.


I agree with meeting people in RL too. In fact, this weekend I had a bit of an outing I thought I would share here. 
Anyways, I wanted to give everyone an update on what happened yesterday. I hope this isn't too long or boring to read. If it is, please let me know and I'll try to make future updates are more concise.

Initially, I had planned to go to a Kayaking meetup and afterwards meetup with a female friend to get some good photos for my profile. Unfortunately, the photo-shoot got postponed due my friend waking up with a scratchy throat and wanting to make sure it was just allergies and not something more serious. She asked if we could postpone it until next weekend and I agreed.

So I head out to the kayak meetup and realized it was cloudy, gray and chilly with a steady wind. I almost convinced myself to cancel because it seemed like ****ty weather to go kayaking (Or in my case, Paddleboarding) in. What if I got wet? Perhaps I would be better off staying home and doing one of my Delivery side hustles and make some extra cash.

Then, I thought to myself "Man-up, just go to the damn meetup, You want to meet new people anyways!!"

So, I packed up my gear (including an inflatable paddleboard, which I had used the night before) and headed out.
This meetup is a general outdoor-based meetup and they usually do things like camping, kayaking, and hiking (in fact, there is a lot of overlap of people who attend this meetup and several others with similar themes, including one that’s almost exclusively hiking). The great thing about these meetups and my Scuba group is there is generally a healthy mix of male and female participants, unlike past hobbies I’ve had, which have been mostly male dominated (I.e. MTG 40k, etc). Also, most of the members seem to be older, divorced or married individuals in their 40-50’s and maybe 60’s??
Anyways, there were about 7-8 people at this meetup, including the memorable characters listed below (there may have been more, but I didn’t talk to them and don’t recall much about them). FYI, I’m likely terrible at guessing ages.. but I’ll do my best.

J: a man who appeared to be around my age, upper 30’s or lower 40’s, he brought a Kayak for another member, L
Couple who organized the event (50-60’s) and another woman there by herself who appeared to be upper 50’s?.
A decent-looking woman who was divorced, had children at home and was probably in her mid-50’s?
Woman my age, named L. I met her at previous Kayaking meetup and she seemed really attractive at first; she was wearing sunglasses, slim, athletic build, friendly personality, and appeared to be in her upper 30’s. Immediately, after that event, we all met a nearby bar restaurant and I saw her without sunglasses. She was still moderately attractive, but her eyes aged her a bit. She had little bits of wrinkles and crow’s feet. Maybe it’s just me, but I would’ve guessed her to be a bit older after seeing her eyes close-up. However, I’ve also been told I look young for my age and when I ask people to guess my age, most guess I’m in my mid-30’s. Family genetics, I guess.
Lastly, there was M, an attractive, short, petite Asian girl. I have no idea of her age, but I would wager she was her mid-upper 20’s. Maybe low 30’s.. she appeared relatively young, compared to everyone else.

Now, the cool thing about this expedition, is that at various times we all traveled at different speeds, sometimes everyone slowed down and we were all in a group, other times we would inadvertently split up and you would be in smaller groups. Relatively, early in our trip, right after leaving the first cove, I found myself paddling near M, so I decided to start up a conversation with her. Before I realized it, it was just us two, with most other people either decently far ahead of us or behind us. I was glad to have a little one on one time with her. We talked about our various hobbies; including my interest in diving and her interest climbing, in addition to the interests we had in common, like being outdoors, exercising etc. She revealed she had just moved area a few months ago from a neighborhood outside Philly to a residency as an Occupation Therapist. Apparently, since arriving she really wanted to get to know the area, so she had gone to numerous fitness and kayak/paddleboarding meetups. A few moments later, I mentioned I enjoyed playing boardgames in the winter months and she asked what games I played. I tried to name a few I could remember and asked her if she played too. She appeared to have at least a moderate interest in playing boardgames and tried to describe what games she had played while drinking with friends.

It was at that point that I felt I should ask for her phone number and see if she wanted to get together and play boardgames. I was initially going to ask her immediately, but since my phone was tucked away in my wet-dry bag, I decided to hold off until after we finished the trip. We were almost back to the dock and a few people decided to get out. Another individual who had arrived late was standing at the dock and after L and most of us decided we would like to paddle a bit further south, he joined us. Thankfully, M decided to stay with us and continue paddling. We talked a bit a bit more about various warm beverage concoctions that would be nice to drink on this chilly, fall day and she also revealed she was trying to get into drawing and art, which is something I used to be really passionate about.

Anyways, after about 3 hours on the water, we all meet at the dock and decided to go out for food. I helped her a few things to her car and after deflating my paddleboard I decided I was going to ask for her number. I wondered if there was some “cool, confident or smooth” way to ask for a girl’s number, as I don’t really do this a lot, but I decided to go with a simple. “Hey M, I was thinking... we should get together and play some board games sometime” She said, “Sure, but I’ll warn you I’m pretty competitive” I said, “NO problem, what’s your phone number” and she proceeded to give me her number.
Now, I will say that I don’t really expect this to go anywhere in regard to a casual or serious romantic of physical relationship. I decided that I don’t want to get my hopes up and have reasonable expectations. We may never actually meet up and play board games, or maybe we will and just be friends. If anything more comes out of it, Great! But at the very least, I made a step in the right direction, asked someone for her phone number, and got a slight boost in confidence.

FYI, I texted her and said “Hey M, this is JBH from the Meetup. How goes it? I thought I would txt so you have my number”
Several hours passed and I didn’t hear anything back. I shrugged it off and thought perhaps she had given me a wrong number or had lost interest.
Eventually, this morning she did respond with a simple “Thanks, it was nice to meet ya yesterday”

I suppose the next step is to propose a time/place to meetup....I'm just debating on how I want to go about that. Should I just ask her out for coffee? or board-games like I initially proposed? Would it be weird if were just the 2 of us playing games (board-games are usually more fun with a larger group, 3-4 minimum) or try to find other people to game with us? Should I try to avoid inviting my weirder, nerdier friends? lol.. perhaps, I'm thinking about this too much.. just trying to think of a good place to start where we can both be comfortable and ideally it wouldn't feel awkward for either of us.


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## RandomDude

@JukeboxHero 

Congratulations! You got yourself a date! In a meetup like that I also preferred to wait until the end, more fun that way. I like my coffee stirred with sugar before sipping.

There's no real smooth way to ask for a girls' number. When I saw my partner for the first time she was so beautiful I didn't even dare hold eye contact when with other women I would have been so much more confident. When I asked for her number the first time my words stumbled on top of each other in front of everyone (I tried to pick her up while she was at work, at a busy reception where I was enroute to a meeting), the guy behind me was getting impatient with me trying to chat up the hot receptionist lol. So I came back the very next day with a handwritten love note, the third that she had recieved on the same day (she had hundreds hitting on her daily when she worked there), and somehow, she actually kept the note and not threw it in the bin (what she did with the other two) and texted me lol (she also took all day, so be patient - I also got her back, I didn't text back until the morning )

So with the stumbled attempt and then that love note my proudest achievement in the dating game to date. My mates kept telling me how I'm punching up lol. You can imagine the ego boost swooping up a stunner that so many were (are still 😑 ) after and to this day I still stare at her and wonder how lucky I am. So yeah, don't think too much about your approach, just try! lol - Also ditch traditional date ideas. My partner and I have been together for 3 years but we actively date at least monthly and just a meal/coffee just doesn't cut it (let it be a primer). Adventure is how you build memories. If you have multiple people over, just make sure you two are on the same team. Otherwise, just have a night with the two of you. In your shoes I would start with a meal/coffee to break the ice followed by an activity. Board games can be a tad too soon though - inviting someone into your home so I would have been cautious but too late - you promised  

Just my opinion anyway, I'm not a pro or anything, just a lucky bastard.


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## heartsbeating

How about combining coffee with board games? There’s some cafes that have games on-hand (or you could take one with you). Depends what kind of games were mentioned. What came to mind that could easily be played at a cafe would be cards, battleship, that kind of thing. Or if there’s an outdoor area (because of noise), maybe Jenga? Your ideas of games might be more sophisticated though! Maybe others will chime in with suggestions ...but well done on making an initial connection!


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## RandomDude

^ Warhammer 40k or Dungeons and Dragons!  Jenga at an outdoor area? I huff and I puff... lol


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## Elizabeth001

Scrabble. More fun with 2 & very competitive.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JukeboxHero

RandomDude said:


> @JukeboxHero
> 
> Congratulations! You got yourself a date! In a meetup like that I also preferred to wait until the end, more fun that way. I like my coffee stirred with sugar before sipping.
> 
> There's no real smooth way to ask for a girls' number. When I saw my partner for the first time she was so beautiful I didn't even dare hold eye contact when with other women I would have been so much more confident. When I asked for her number the first time my words stumbled on top of each other in front of everyone (I tried to pick her up while she was at work, at a busy reception where I was enroute to a meeting), the guy behind me was getting impatient with me trying to chat up the hot receptionist lol. So I came back the very next day with a handwritten love note, the third that she had recieved on the same day (she had hundreds hitting on her daily when she worked there), and somehow, she actually kept the note and not threw it in the bin (what she did with the other two) and texted me lol (she also took all day, so be patient - I also got her back, I didn't text back until the morning )
> 
> So with the stumbled attempt and then that love note my proudest achievement in the dating game to date. My mates kept telling me how I'm punching up lol. You can imagine the ego boost swooping up a stunner that so many were (are still 😑 ) after and to this day I still stare at her and wonder how lucky I am. So yeah, don't think too much about your approach, just try! lol - Also ditch traditional date ideas. My partner and I have been together for 3 years but we actively date at least monthly and just a meal/coffee just doesn't cut it (let it be a primer). Adventure is how you build memories. If you have multiple people over, just make sure you two are on the same team. Otherwise, just have a night with the two of you. In your shoes I would start with a meal/coffee to break the ice followed by an activity. Board games can be a tad too soon though - inviting someone into your home so I would have been cautious but too late - you promised
> 
> Just my opinion anyway, I'm not a pro or anything, just a lucky bastard.





heartsbeating said:


> How about combining coffee with board games? There’s some cafes that have games on-hand (or you could take one with you). Depends what kind of games were mentioned. What came to mind that could easily be played at a cafe would be cards, battleship, that kind of thing. Or if there’s an outdoor area (because of noise), maybe Jenga? Your ideas of games might be more sophisticated though! Maybe others will chime in with suggestions ...but well done on making an initial connection!


Thanks so much for your input RandomDude and heartsbeating..

Reading your story is encouraging, I think shows that anyone end up with the partner of their dreams and maybe even one that would be considered out of their league. I'm sure people would say I aim high as well, which is probably one of the reasons I don't have a lot of experience with women, 

I wouldn't call it a date yet, just a phone number. I agree with the idea of doing some more adventurous dates, but that's getting tougher (at least for outdoor stuff) as the weather gets colder. The thing I'm thinking about doing, like @heartsbeating mentioned is going out to one of those Boardgame Cafes/Taverns. They seem to be pretty popular now, at least in my area. I think that's a good idea for a flexible first date, for a few reasons.

1. It's out in public, so she'll feel safer (again as you mentioned, going to someone's apt is probably scary, intimidating for her and probably a bit embarrassing for me, as my apt is not very well furnished atm. + I don't even know if this is actually "date" Date, or if we're just going to be friends. I think the apt is something you do when you're pretty confident there's some interest between the two of you and you want to continue dating. 

2. We should have the option to play just together OR find a game with other patrons at the location..typically there are people hanging out either playing a game or looking for other players. I also prefer to have other people teach me a game as opposed to reading directions, but OTOH, it may be fun to learn together.

3. Additionally, when our group was talking about warm drinks they were in that seemed great for the fall season, I heard someone mention "hard cider" as a great drink. I joked and mentioned "Hard hot chocolate, or spiked hot chocolate, thinking I had come up with an original idea. M pitched in and said "Oh yeah, chocolate is great mix it with Bailey's". I was disappointed and said, "Ah man, I thought I had a genius idea there" She said, "Oh no, it's still a genius idea, you can also have it with X". I don't recall what X was. 

Before I get too ahead of myself, though.. I need to scope out Googlemaps and find a good place to meet, and take the next step: set up a date. All of the above is null and void if she says no or cancels the invitation.

With that being said, I want to temper my expectations and remain cautiously optimistic. She does seem to share a lot of my interests (outdoor stuff, physical exercise, boardgames, experimental cooking and it seems like she's getting into art/drawing which is an old passion of mine), but I didn't get the sense she felt attraction to me and I feel like there is probably a decent age difference. I'm wondering if she "yes" just to avoid the awkwardness of rejecting me, or perhaps she's eager to make new friends since she's new to the area. If that's the case, I want to be mentally prepared to accept that feels that way. 

P.s. And I'm saying that last part because I don't want to fall into that "Nice guy syndrome" where you obssess over one girl and try to do all these "Nice things" for her and expect her to like you in return.


----------



## Livvie

JukeboxHero said:


> Thanks so much for your input RandomDude and heartsbeating..
> 
> Reading your story is encouraging, I think shows that anyone end up with the partner of their dreams and maybe even one that would be considered out of their league. I'm sure people would say I aim high as well, which is probably one of the reasons I don't have a lot of experience with women,
> 
> I wouldn't call it a date yet, just a phone number. I agree with the idea of doing some more adventurous dates, but that's getting tougher (at least for outdoor stuff) as the weather gets colder. The thing I'm thinking about doing, like @heartsbeating mentioned is going out to one of those Boardgame Cafes/Taverns. They seem to be pretty popular now, at least in my area. I think that's a good idea for a flexible first date, for a few reasons.
> 
> 1. It's out in public, so she'll feel safer (again as you mentioned, going to someone's apt is probably scary, intimidating for her and probably a bit embarrassing for me, as my apt is not very well furnished atm. + I don't even know if this is actually "date" Date, or if we're just going to be friends. I think the apt is something you do when you're pretty confident there's some interest between the two of you and you want to continue dating.
> 
> 2. We should have the option to play just together OR find a game with other patrons at the location..typically there are people hanging out either playing a game or looking for other players. I also prefer to have other people teach me a game as opposed to reading directions, but OTOH, it may be fun to learn together.
> 
> 3. Additionally, when our group was talking about warm drinks they were in that seemed great for the fall season, I heard someone mention "hard cider" as a great drink. I joked and mentioned "Hard hot chocolate, or spiked hot chocolate, thinking I had come up with an original idea. M pitched in and said "Oh yeah, chocolate is great mix it with Bailey's". I was disappointed and said, "Ah man, I thought I had a genius idea there" She said, "Oh no, it's still a genius idea, you can also have it with X". I don't recall what X was.
> 
> Before I get too ahead of myself, though.. I need to scope out Googlemaps and find a good place to meet, and take the next step: set up a date. All of the above is null and void if she says no or cancels the invitation.
> 
> With that being said, I want to temper my expectations and remain cautiously optimistic. She does seem to share a lot of my interests (outdoor stuff, physical exercise, boardgames, experimental cooking and it seems like she's getting into art/drawing which is an old passion of mine), but I didn't get the sense she felt attraction to me and I feel like there is probably a decent age difference. I'm wondering if she "yes" just to avoid the awkwardness of rejecting me, or perhaps she's eager to make new friends since she's new to the area. If that's the case, I want to be mentally prepared to accept that feels that way.
> 
> P.s. And I'm saying that last part because I don't want to fall into that "Nice guy syndrome" where you obssess over one girl and try to do all these "Nice things" for her and expect her to like you in return.


I can't help myself from asking. Isn't there a pandemic going on where you live, with distancing and mask wearing in _public places_?


----------



## RandomDude

JukeboxHero said:


> Thanks so much for your input RandomDude and heartsbeating..
> 
> Reading your story is encouraging, I think shows that anyone end up with the partner of their dreams and maybe even one that would be considered out of their league. I'm sure people would say I aim high as well, which is probably one of the reasons I don't have a lot of experience with women,


One thing I had learnt from my failed "marriage", and all my failed "relationships" - never settle for anyone. Ever. Both you and they deserve better than that 
Keep your standards high, the stars do align, even when all hope is lost.



> I wouldn't call it a date yet, just a phone number. I agree with the idea of doing some more adventurous dates, but that's getting tougher (at least for outdoor stuff) as the weather gets colder. The thing I'm thinking about doing, like @heartsbeating mentioned is going out to one of those *Boardgame Cafes/Taverns*. They seem to be pretty popular now, at least in my area. I think that's a good idea for a flexible first date, for a few reasons...


I never even heard of those! Just googled, some in my area too, but they seem... I dunno, like a noisy pub. Maybe I'm wrong, never been to one.



> Before I get too ahead of myself, though.. I need to scope out Googlemaps and find a good place to meet, and take the next step: set up a date. All of the above is null and void if she says no or cancels the invitation.
> 
> With that being said, I want to temper my expectations and remain cautiously optimistic. She does seem to share a lot of my interests (outdoor stuff, physical exercise, boardgames, experimental cooking and it seems like she's getting into art/drawing which is an old passion of mine), but I didn't get the sense she felt attraction to me and I feel like there is probably a decent age difference. I'm wondering if she "yes" just to avoid the awkwardness of rejecting me, or perhaps she's eager to make new friends since she's new to the area. If that's the case, I want to be mentally prepared to accept that feels that way.
> 
> P.s. And I'm saying that last part because I don't want to fall into that "Nice guy syndrome" where you obssess over one girl and try to do all these "Nice things" for her and expect her to like you in return.


You're fine. Just get out there and have fun with no expectations. You don't know what's around the corner, if this means anything or if this would just help you get out there. Enjoy the single lifestyle - while it lasts that is, I fell in love merely 8 months after I lost all hope I could ever love anyone lol. As for age difference my partner is 14 years younger than me, yet more mature than me, so don't worry about that  Age is a number.


----------



## JukeboxHero

RandomDude said:


> ^ Warhammer 40k or Dungeons and Dragons!  Jenga at an outdoor area? I huff and I puff... lol


HAha, It's been a long time since I played those..and I wouldn't really classify them as Boardgames. I'm pretty confident I'll never do 40k again (well, maybe someday) but D&D does sound cool and is something I might pick-up once the winter months hit. At least it has a social aspect to it.



Livvie said:


> I can't help myself from asking. Isn't there a pandemic going on where you live, with distancing and mask wearing in _public places_?


There is, but you can dine in buildings, you just have to wear a mask when you're not sitting at your table eating. I'm not what rules apply to boardgames, but I imagine if you're playing and not eating, you would need to wear the mask as well. 

Alright, so I did it. 
I found a place that's a Boardgame Cafe, with lots of warm, cafe-style drinks and appetizers. It's very casual, friendly, lots of nice board gamers there and usually not too noisy (I've been there once or twice).It's close to where she lives as well. I described to her and sent an invitation to check it out this Friday at 7pm. Balls in her court now. We'll see how this goes or if she even responds.
I will report back with the results!


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## Openminded

👍


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## JukeboxHero

I apologize for the long post forthcoming...

Alright everyone, reporting back here and I would love to get everyone's thoughts on this part. I really value your "expert" opinions. Expert being relative since I would say you're all more experienced than I am in this realm.

So, Sunday evening @ 5:38pm, I texted her saying. "Hey, I recall you asking about places where you could drinks and play boardgames. There's a pretty cool Boardgame place on High st. They have a nice selection of hot, cafe drinks and appetizers, along with a huge selection of boardgames. How about we check it Fri around 7pm?"
8:08pm, she responds, "Sounds fun! Do they have the option to sit outside if it's crowded/or limit the capacity of people?"
9:50pm, I reply, "They don't have an outside seating area, but they practice social distancing inside. I'll ask if they have limits on capacity. There's also a place called 'Boardgame Tavern' that serves alcohol off of Beth Rd. 
The next morning, I check the website for 'Boardgame Cafe' and see they do indeed have a capacity limit.
11:16am Monday: "So I just checked their website. Looks like they their max capacity is 28 people and they follow normal social distancing and mask rules. 
So we could get our own table or probably find a small group of people. Should be about the same as going out to eat."

I almost sent a follow-up inquiry asking... "Does that work for you?" or "Are you comfortable with that?" I decided, however, that I had given her enough information to assess the situation and respond... and also.. all those dating rules about not texting a girl too much in effort to avoid sounding needy.
So I waited. 
Thankfully, I was busy working from home, but I would still check my phone every 1.5-2 hrs to see if she had responded. I'm sure many of you can empathize with the feelings nervous anticipation of waiting for a response from your prospective date

2 hrs pass... nothing.

another 2 hours.. nothing. No big deal, though. it is a Monday and I know she works as a occupational therapist. Probably doesn't even have her phone on her.

At this point, I check my Meetups calendar and realized I had scheduled a "Happy Hour Hike" Friday evening at 7pm. "Cool" I thought to myself, "at least this way, I have a backup plan if she bails on me." Additionally, I was actually looking forward to the hiking event as another opportunity to socialize and part of me wanted to txt her back and ask if she would rather do it on Saturday. Then I realize it's Halloween weekend start imagining her texting me back saying she had plans to go a Halloween party or event... or maybe just hang out with friends. Seems like an easy and reasonable excuse to escape the obligation.

I'm finally about to get off work and I hear a txt come in. It's almost 6pm, so I think "Ah, of course, that must be her, probably texting me after she got off work". 
I finish up my current call, check my phone and....
It's a freakin' political txt!! addressing me as "Jimel" and asking me to vote against Trump. "Dammit" I think to myself, and address the person accordingly, telling them that my name isn't Jimel and kindly remove me from their list. 

After work, I go out to play boardgames with some friends. As I'm driving, I still see she hasn't responded. At this point, I'm almost convinced I'll be doing Plan B and going to that Happy Hour hike, which honestly doesn't sound too bad.

Thankfully, after I arrive at my friend's house, play boardgames for a couple of hours and completely forgot about it. 

As I'm about to leave, at about 10:20pm.. I see her text. 

Her response. 9:40pm. "OK that sounds good to me and if it's at capacity we can check that other place out! I really wanna see it before everything gets shut down or before it's not safe to go out anymore" 

FINALLY!! That anticipation was killing me. But, wow.. she not only seems interested in the first place, but willing to find an alternative if that doesn't work out. 

Sweet.

I proceed to head home, I go to bed and.. OMG. I had so many friggin' vivid dreams that played through various possible scenarios of this upcoming encounter. They all take place in an area that vaguely resembled my memories of BoardGame Cafe and would happen right around when M would show up, play out some scenario, then reset (or I wake up and fall back asleep) and it would begin again. 
Some had bigger crowds, some had bigger and more available tables. One dream involved an co-worker I haven't seen in decades who somehow knew M, so I invited her to our table. 

Anyways, I'm excited that things are actually panning out for this date. I'm thinking I'll text her back with a final confirmation. "Great! See you then". I might also mention that I will likely arrive early (I have the whole day off and I think they actually open at 5pm) and I'm almost tempted to say "Hey, I'm going to arrive at 6pm to hold a spot.. if you're able to arrive early". OR I just stick to the original plan and IF I show up early, try to find and learn a good game to play so it looks like I know what I'm doing.

I'm also curious about what everyone thinks her level of interest is. The long delay in responses seems to indicate it's not too high, or she's just very busy. Either way, it seems like she's following through, so probably best not to jump to conclusions. 

I apologize for all the details and questions. I tend to be indecisive and overthink things, but I appreciate any input you may have. Thanks for reading this post.


----------



## RandomDude

@JukeboxHero

Lol relax! It's been that long huh?
You are overthinking things, can smell your tension from your words (but also excitement, which is great!). 

Like you said, best not to jump to conclusions. Go and have fun!

Welcome back to the game  It'll be like riding a bike...


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## RebuildingMe

So it took her 8 hours to basically respond “okay”? Don’t put all your eggs in this basket. Just don’t get hooked and hurt. If she was that into you, she wouldn’t have waited 8 hours. Did she offer a reason why she waited all day? People are on their phones all day, she’s no exception.


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## TurnedTurtle

> People are on their phones all day, she’s no exception.


Sure, a lot of a people are, but there are a lot of people who are not (or can not be, due to their job or other situation). 

Texting can often be an asynchronous form of communication, I am not sure that I would read _too_ much into the delay in her response.


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## Elizabeth001

TurnedTurtle said:


> Sure, a lot of a people are, but there are a lot of people who are not (or can not be, due to their job or other situation).
> 
> Texting can often be an asynchronous form of communication, I am not sure that I would read _too_ much into the delay in her response.


Yet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## heartsbeating

How did the games night go?


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## JukeboxHero

RandomDude said:


> @JukeboxHero
> 
> Lol relax! It's been that long huh?
> You are overthinking things, can smell your tension from your words (but also excitement, which is great!).
> 
> Like you said, best not to jump to conclusions. Go and have fun!
> 
> Welcome back to the game  It'll be like riding a bike...


I think I made it sound a little more intense and dramatic perhaps then it actually was. Did I have a bit of nervous anticipation about her response? Yes. Was I hoping she would respond/agree to the date? Yes. But had she said "No" or not responded.. yes I would've been a bit bummed, but I was ready to shrug it off and continue with the other plans I made in case this didn't work out (ie. the hike) so my whole Friday night isn't revolving around this date or her.

I'm actually trying to stick the "worst-case scenario" mindset that this probably isn't going to develop into anything more than a friendship or maybe a 1 or 2 time hanging out with a cute girl and playing boardgames. I feel like my best option is to just play this by ear and see how things play out. Maybe try to gauge her interest level as we play games.

The way I look at is "Hey, even if this the ONLY time we do anything together, it's 1000x better than the alternative of spending my Friday Night feeling lonely/bored while I idly waste my time clicking down a random rabbit hole of Youtube videos. Right?

New person, new experience, new memories and stories to tell is the way I look at it.

Edit: Although, in this case I would've gone to that "Happy Hour Hike or been driving for Uber/Lyft or Doordash if she decided not to accept.




RebuildingMe said:


> So it took her 8 hours to basically respond “okay”? Don’t put all your eggs in this basket. Just don’t get hooked and hurt. If she was that into you, she wouldn’t have waited 8 hours. Did she offer a reason why she waited all day? People are on their phones all day, she’s no exception.


I'm definitely not putting all my eggs in one basket. IN fact, my plan for Saturday (Oct 31st) Morning was to get together with a friend and take pics. She agreed and we had a time set for 10am. Where she would would come over, help me find some good outfits to wear and maybe go shopping for more. 



heartsbeating said:


> How did the games night go?


So glad you asked @heartsbeating,
Just as a reminder, my last text to her was about arriving at Boardgame Cafe early to ensure we got a spot. I sent that Tuesday and she didn't respond to it. I decided NOT to text her again as sending 2 txts in a row might make me seem needy/desperate...idk if those are the right words, but I think you catch my drift. I've heard it's a big NO-NO for guys to send more than one text in a row.

But, the fact that she had NOT responded made me concerned she was going to flake. I started considering if I should text her to see if things were still a go, but I couldn't think of what to say that again.. wouldn't display some sense of insecurity...so I thought about it and waited. As I walked into Old Navy (I left 2 hrs early to shop for a new outfit because I wasn't happy with my selection of long-sleeved casual shirts and I need a new jacket/coat for the fall+ winter season) I see she finally responded to my last text with a "Like". 
"Good" I thought to myself, "At least I know she's seen the text and I doubt she would 'like' it but then not show up". 
I finally thought of a great text to send to "check" and see if she was still planning on showing up. I asked "Do you have any particular style of Boardgames you would prefer to play or be interested in learning?"
She actually responded in a reasonable time frame.. only 30 min later with "Not really, we can just see what there is" followed by a reassuring "See you soon". 

With my new outfit in tow, I headed to Boardgame Cafe, arrived approx 1 hr before they agreed upon date time. When I arrived, I was pleasantly surprised at how quiet and empty the place was(only 2 groups of 2-3 people very widely spaced out). I asked one of the employees about some good 2 player games and he suggested a few and explained how they worked. I changed into my new outfit and asked him if he could show me how to play one. He did and I set up the game and waited for her to show up. 

Soon after, she texted me (still concerned about Covid) and asked if there was outside seating. I reassured her that despite no outside seating, there was plenty of space and hardly anyone there.
She let me know she was on her way and then announced she had arrived. I told her to come to the back where I had set up table.

Now, to describe "M" and most of our date. She has a very tame and demure personality. I wouldn't exactly say she was "Shy" as she seemed to have no problems talking to people and being outgoing, even during that first meetup when everyone was a stranger to her.. but she had just has a very quiet, low-key voice that had very little variance or personality. 
So, throughout the "date" if you will, everything was pretty lowkey. I taught her how to play the game, "Odin's Ravens" and even in the game, she was very reserved and hesitant about using certain "trick" cards that could help one get ahead. I tried suggesting certain strategies and encouraged her to be more aggressive, but she had a different strategy and playstyle, which sometimes involved doing nothing for a turn, and she stuck to it. Thankfully, she won at least one of the 3 games we played.

Throughout the date, we mostly discussed the boardgames we were playing. She would sometimes say things like "Oh no, I think I'm going to lose" or "I'm nervous about what to do here" and I would try to tease her a little when she did make a good play against me with things "Oh, I'm gonna get you back for that" or "Well played, but you better watch your back now". 
I realized after awhile that we should probably talk about something not related to the games we were playing so I asked her about her work and concerns about Covid. She described a situation at work where she hid under her desk when someone ran through the building yelling something about closing and locking all the doors, and said she was nervous about Covid because realized she had been exposed to it few of her patients had tested positive for it (after she had sessions with them). During those conversations, I don't recall a single time that she inquired anything about me or what was happening in my life. 

When we finished that game, she saw another game called Azul, and mentioned that she had played it before and said she could try to explain it, but said "I'm really bad at explaining things..I might have to read the rules again" We asked the store employee to explain it, and he gladly did. We played 2 games of that before they closed, she won the first and I beat her in the second.

As we were closing our tabs at the end of the night, she said something about how she would beat me next time. I asked if/when she would want to do this again and she seemed open to that idea, but said her weekdays were pretty busy, so weekends would be best. 

Afterwards, I tried to examine how I felt about the date. I felt it was decently fun, not super-exciting and I didn't feel like there were any "sparks". Despite her being cute, I'm not sure our personalities match. She never got animated and didn't seem very interactive.. but it could also be because we were just playing boardgames. I wondered if I should've been more flirty or fun. The thing is, she was so quiet and reserved and I don't know how she would've taken it. 

About an hour after I got home, I texted her "Hey, thanks for meeting up with me. Had a good time. I think we should check out 'Boardgame Tavern' next time. 
The next afternoon she responded "Ya, let's do that next time". I haven't responded to that text yet, but I think I'll respond with something like "Great, you better bring your A-Game this time.. I really want to see that fierce competitive side you promised me".

Lastly, I wanted to mention that the girl who was supposed to help me get pics for my profile ended up sleeping in and IM'ed me on FB apologizing that she slept in. We set up another apt for Thurs afternoon. I was a bit bummed, but I'm glad she's taking the time to help me with this and still excited to get some awesome pics and dating profiles up!


----------



## DownByTheRiver

My theory is that a goatee is going to cut your potential audience in half, but no one is going to miss you not having one.


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## Livvie

I like the facial hair on him. I think it looks good.


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## RandomDude

@JukeboxHero

Well, you aren't going to have sparks with everyone 
Take this as a confidence boost, knowing that you've now got the engine restarted. A lot of dates are like this, fun, but no sparks, parting amicably but moving on all the same.

Then suddenly the stars align. You'll know when it happens, and well, it just does


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## JukeboxHero

RandomDude said:


> @JukeboxHero
> 
> Well, you aren't going to have sparks with everyone
> Take this as a confidence boost, knowing that you've now got the engine restarted. A lot of dates are like this, fun, but no sparks, parting amicably but moving on all the same.
> 
> Then suddenly the stars align. You'll know when it happens, and well, it just does


Right, but I'm not sure that we're "moving on" yet. I mean.. she said she would be cool with meeting again at Boardgame Tavern... and even mentioned "Next time" before I suggested hanging out again. I also feel like it's a bit too early to tell. She may not be my type, but that doesn't mean we couldn't be friends, even if only in the short term, right? 

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what my next move should be. I certainly wouldn't mind hanging out with her again, even she I'm not head over heels for her or "feeling the sparks"

Regardless, though.. you are correct. I did get a boost of confidence and it was still fun doing stuff with a girl again. Thanks again for encouragement.


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## heartsbeating

JukeboxHero said:


> Right, but I'm not sure that we're "moving on" yet. I mean.. she said she would be cool with meeting again at Boardgame Tavern... and even mentioned "Next time" before I suggested hanging out again. I also feel like it's a bit too early to tell. She may not be my type, but that doesn't mean we couldn't be friends, even if only in the short term, right?
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not sure what my next move should be. I certainly wouldn't mind hanging out with her again, even she I'm not head over heels for her or "feeling the sparks"
> 
> Regardless, though.. you are correct. I did get a boost of confidence and it was still fun doing stuff with a girl again. Thanks again for encouragement.


Again... I may be COMPLETELY the wrong person to dish out suggestions here, but from my view, I don't see any harm in just enjoying the company of each other. Meet up at the Tavern soon. She may have been very nervous; perhaps she will come out of her shell more next time. Or perhaps that is just the way she is. However, I'd hope she is savvy enough to pick up that you're not feeling chemistry (and she may not be either). New person in town, likely looking to meet new people by the sounds of it, personally I see no harm with meeting up every so often if it works for both of you. So long as after the next time you get together, that it's clear this isn't dating territory. Others might be able to jump in here.

From where I'm sitting - you asked for a woman's phone number and suggested to meet up. She gave you her number. You arranged to meet for board-games at a cafe. She showed up like she said she would. I liked that you asked more about herself when you realized the focus was purely on the games. She mentioned 'next time' which indicates she enjoyed the evening. It's kept loose at the stage. Keep it relaxed, no expectations from either side. It sounds to me like you're dipping your toe into the water... and potentially met someone to meet up with for hobbies sometimes (if it doesn't turn into chemistry-dating). You made a step forward into the unknown. Good job.


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## manowar

JukeboxHero said:


> Maybe I should just start volunteering (something I need to do MORE of) and I can add something like that to SHOW That I care about helping other people.



From what you wrote, it looks to me as you're losing your center/ frame . Who you are. Are you a pleaser or sometimes court jester? the guy whose willing to stand on his head if it pleases m,' lady; sing karaoke all night. or dance like a monkey on the dance floor for hours. You dont have to when she enters into your frame. I wouldn't volunteer to make myself look appealing to anonymous online women. Who cares. OLD is totally geared for women. Understand that. They get tons of responses from thristy guys. thats the system. Try to reverse the process. I try to qualify the woman to me. Is this someone I want to meet for 20 minutes doing the coffee thing. . Another problem. *Be direct.* It shows confidence. get to the point. Don't act like a friend as when you asked two women to scuba dive in the hopes that something might develop. You seemed to hide you're true intentions. Why? that's the weak friend guy approach. Instead ask them out for drinks. show your intentions up front. if your willing to be friends as in friend zone then continue to do what you're doing.

My advice for you is read Corey Wayne's book the 3% male . Watch his vids. You need this. this will help you.
*Get red pilled*. You need this even more. Start with the rational male book, blog and vids.


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## JukeboxHero

manowar said:


> From what you wrote, it looks to me as you're losing your center/ frame . Who you are. Are you a pleaser or sometimes court jester? the guy whose willing to stand on his head if it pleases m,' lady; sing karaoke all night. or dance like a monkey on the dance floor for hours. You dont have to when she enters into your frame. I wouldn't volunteer to make myself look appealing to anonymous online women. Who cares. OLD is totally geared for women. Understand that. They get tons of responses from thristy guys. thats the system. Try to reverse the process. I try to qualify the woman to me. Is this someone I want to meet for 20 minutes doing the coffee thing. . Another problem. *Be direct.* It shows confidence. get to the point. Don't act like a friend as when you asked two women to scuba dive in the hopes that something might develop. You seemed to hide you're true intentions. Why? that's the weak friend guy approach. Instead ask them out for drinks. show your intentions up front. if your willing to be friends as in friend zone then continue to do what you're doing.
> 
> My advice for you is read Corey Wayne's book the 3% male . Watch his vids. You need this. this will help you.
> *Get red pilled*. You need this even more. Start with the rational male book, blog and vids.


Hey Manowar,

Thanks for the info, I've listened to quite a bit of Corey Wayne (a few years ago), and I'm also quite familiar with the Red Pill and their various theories and philosophies. I started to look into their stuff a few years ago too. 
I'm mostly okay with Corey Wayne says, he seems to give decent advice about being direct, confident, not chasing women too much, etc. 
As for Redpill... well.. I'll get more into that later, when I've had a bit more time to do some more thorough research, but from what I've seen... it seems like a lot of toxic, misogynistic attitudes towards women with a bit of decent advice for self-improvement mixed in as well. I don't really buy a lot of what they think/say about women, though.

I also completely understand the system of OLD and I know that women typically get 100's of responses to a man's paltry few.

However, I want to talk about why you thinking I'm losing my frame? Can you provide an example as to what makes you think that?

Also, why are bringing up all this stuff about being a jester, standing on my head and dancing/karoake? I'm not where you're getting this..


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## moco82

Prior comments on geography and local culture are spot on. In most countries, including the US (and not just on the coasts) driving 40 min makes a difference. Corporations selling consumer goods focus-group relentlessly.


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## RandomDude

@JukeboxHero

Just be nice but be firm in your expectations. Be yourself but also know your worth. Doesn't have to be so complicated.


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## WandaJ

late to the party, but I think that goatie suites you well Good luck!


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## TomNebraska

manowar said:


> From what you wrote, it looks to me as you're losing your center/ frame . Who you are. Are you a pleaser or sometimes court jester? the guy whose willing to stand on his head if it pleases m,' lady; sing karaoke all night. or dance like a monkey on the dance floor for hours. You dont have to when she enters into your frame. I wouldn't volunteer to make myself look appealing to anonymous online women. Who cares. OLD is totally geared for women. Understand that. They get tons of responses from thristy guys. thats the system. Try to reverse the process. I try to qualify the woman to me. Is this someone I want to meet for 20 minutes doing the coffee thing. . Another problem. *Be direct.* It shows confidence. get to the point. Don't act like a friend as when you asked two women to scuba dive in the hopes that something might develop. You seemed to hide you're true intentions. Why? that's the weak friend guy approach. Instead ask them out for drinks. show your intentions up front. if your willing to be friends as in friend zone then continue to do what you're doing.
> 
> My advice for you is read Corey Wayne's book the 3% male . Watch his vids. You need this. this will help you.
> *Get red pilled*. You need this even more. Start with the rational male book, blog and vids.


that's all good advice, but it's also all just common sense. why does he need to buy some book and watch a bunch of vids?

Spending money on self-help books and videos is a total beta move...


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## TomNebraska

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey Manowar,
> 
> Thanks for the info, I've listened to quite a bit of Corey Wayne (a few years ago), and I'm also quite familiar with the Red Pill and their various theories and philosophies. I started to look into their stuff a few years ago too.
> I'm mostly okay with Corey Wayne says, he seems to give decent advice about being direct, confident, not chasing women too much, etc.
> As for Redpill... well.. I'll get more into that later, when I've had a bit more time to do some more thorough research, but from what I've seen... it seems like a lot of toxic, misogynistic attitudes towards women with a bit of decent advice for self-improvement mixed in as well. I don't really buy a lot of what they think/say about women, though.
> 
> I also completely understand the system of OLD and I know that women typically get 100's of responses to a man's paltry few.
> 
> However, I want to talk about why you thinking I'm losing my frame? Can you provide an example as to what makes you think that?
> 
> Also, why are bringing up all this stuff about being a jester, standing on my head and dancing/karoake? I'm not where you're getting this..


OLD is a nightmare, but in this day and age where we live really fractured existences, it's kind of a necessary evil. And at least it puts you right in touch with other people who are also playing the field.

I found I had to intentionally compartmentalize it, lest I get obsessive and freak out over delayed responses and/or lack of responses. I'd set aside some time to check each day, and if there was no action, force myself to move on. 

If someone did start chatting with me, I'd respond more, but try to naturally move the conversation to a phone call at some point (some women did seem to just want chat buddies). If they weren't interested or able to, I'd try to set a "phone call date" and tell them I had to go, and stop chatting. If I sent a response but didn't get one for a couple minutes, instead of obsessing about it, I'd tell myself they were too busy, and enforce my "time limit" for the day for the app. 

Also, if someone is really getting under your skin for some reason (i.e. chatty when they want to be, but non-responsive, or otherwise annoying) just block them and move on! I found that helped me not get too involved or off-kilter, or annoyed with OLD. Remember, there's plenty of fish in the sea, and you have no deadline by which you need to find someone, and don't want to waste time with someone you have compatibility issues with up front.


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## WandaJ

TomNebraska said:


> I found I had to intentionally compartmentalize it, lest I get obsessive and freak out over delayed responses and/or lack of responses. I'd set aside some time to check each day, and if there was no action, force myself to move on.


Yes, that. .. I wasn't sure if guys do that too, or it's jus female thing, lol. Good to know they are waiting for those responses too


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## TomNebraska

WandaJ said:


> Yes, that. .. I wasn't sure if guys do that too, or it's jus female thing, lol. Good to know they are waiting for those responses too


It's a very human thing.  

Everybody is trying to play it cool. Some do a better job than others, but everybody gets that little dopamine boost from seeing messages in their inbox. It's addictive... 

And for every guy complaining women have it too easy on these sites, I have horror stories from women of guys showing up to dates and treating them like dirt (or creeping them out). So I learned to ignore a lot of what I hear, and form my own opinions.


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## TomNebraska

I do think both genders need to check their sense of entitlement when doing OLD. 

One of my favorite moments (even counting fun dates I went on) was blocking someone. On her profile she had a bunch of nasty comments about short guys, or unemployed guys that seemed really mean. She was cute, but, like come on... Everyones' putting themselves out there, and no one deserves to get mocked because of something out of their control. 

She also had a long rant about how she had no problem blocking people who messaged her but weren't up to her standards.

She liked to chat, but would take 5-10 minutes to provide a response, which got tiring, since I wasn't going to sit on a computer for an hour to exchange 4 messages. I eventually stopped responding. 

Evidently, she liked me enough to check my profile constantly, because she sent me a message saying something like "_I saw you went online yesterday, but didn't have the decency to message me and say HI_"... so I went to her profile and clicked "*BLOCK*"

It felt really satisfying! I did it for all those short guys and unemployed guys she blocked before...


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## WandaJ

TomNebraska said:


> I do think both genders need to check their sense of entitlement when doing OLD.
> 
> One of my favorite moments (even counting fun dates I went on) was blocking someone. On her profile she had a bunch of nasty comments about short guys, or unemployed guys that seemed really mean. She was cute, but, like come on... Everyones' putting themselves out there, and no one deserves to get mocked because of something out of their control.
> 
> She also had a long rant about how she had no problem blocking people who messaged her but weren't up to her standards.
> 
> She liked to chat, but would take 5-10 minutes to provide a response, which got tiring, since I wasn't going to sit on a computer for an hour to exchange 4 messages. I eventually stopped responding.
> 
> Evidently, she liked me enough to check my profile constantly, because she sent me a message saying something like "_I saw you went online yesterday, but didn't have the decency to message me and say HI_"... so I went to her profile and clicked "*BLOCK*"
> 
> It felt really satisfying! I did it for all those short guys and unemployed guys she blocked before...


wow, that lady really sound nasty... You would think she would have enough common sense to realize that these comments are not making her more attractive to most guys.


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## Evinrude58

My tip for online dating:
If they take too long to respond, they’re not interested.
If they don’t want to actually talk, which I highly suggest, don’t waste your time.
If they suggest an expensive restaurant for a first meeting, pass.
This a hard one for me: Don’t ask for pictures if their profile has full body and several pics. They get asked constantly—- if they’re interested in you, they’ll send pictures.... if they are borderline interested, it will turn them off.

Whatever you do, don’t get overly excited until you actually meet in person— you’ll likely bring yourself disappointment.

whatever you do, don’t have sex with them unless you’ve gotten to know them well and are really wanting a Relationship.  You’ll have to hurt their feelings if you lose interest and it’s no fun hurting someone’s feelings.

Don’t be afraid to date several and I personally have no problem telling them I’m not wanting exclusivity until At least 3 dates—- if they ask.... 

Don’t be overly open about yourself.

if they send you nude pictures, obviously bail.

if they don’t follow through with plans, don’t give them a third chance and probably beat no second.


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## JukeboxHero

Hello again everyone,

After about a month of trying to get together with a friend to take good photos (and having them repeatedly cancel on me) I finally decided to simply ask people to snap some photos of me at random Meetups I was going to (mainly doing outdoor stuff). I think I've got a decent enough collection to get things started. I know a lot of these are selfies, which is generally frowned upon. I think they're decent, even though I'm sure some could be slightly more professional.

Regardless, I'm posting a link to get some constructive and honest feedback. Please let me know what you think are the best for a profile and if there is anything lacking that I might want to get from photos in the near future. I'm looking to probably select 5 or 7 for my profile, and one for my Main profile pic



http://imgur.com/a/MeVHpqv


For your convenience, I've named them and numbered them 1-15 (though for some reason 15 and 16 appear the top)


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## WandaJ

these are all great photos, the first one would be great choice for a main profile pic.


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## Openminded

I posted my choices on your other thread. I agree with Wanda about the first one (which I had overlooked).


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