# Think I have proof finally...



## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Hello all - It's been awhile since I posted. Well anyway, I'll try to make this as quick as possible. Back in June a friend of mine saw my live in boyfriend out with another woman at a bar. He denied, of course. Then in October found out him and this woman he was "seen" with at the bar were texting like crazy. Now, when I confronted him they were just friends but yet he never told me about her. He had told me about ALL of his other female friends at work. Her for some reason..never mentioned. Also, when I called her to confront her she was very catty...told me to "take it up with him". That was very odd. I mean, a woman should just say they're friends when that's the case, right? 

Now, there have been random things to make me believe that something was up for the past year..lipstick on his collar (he didn't know where it was from), white suspicous stains on his boxers when we weren't intimate, extra facebook activity, etc. 

Well, for MONTHS he told me that they were JUST friends. He was never at a bar with her and they texted about me, places for her to see cause she was new in town, etc. He pretty much told me I was crazy and turned things around on me every time I brought it up..

WELL...He accidentally left his email open and this is what I found and this exchange is from 2 weeks ago...AFTER he said he would never contact her again, etc...

______________________________________________________

FROM HER TO HIM

Hey sorry if I seemed short yesterday , I am out of minutes till today or the 18th not sure. I share with my brother and he hogged this month haha. So I cant even call your office .You will either have to come see me or call from verizon, and we know thats not gonna happen my home number is 

FROM HIM TO HER

Hi!!!!!! Hope all is well. Sorry I was ornary today and trippin you like a child! I am not completely sure why I did so. So, again, my apologies... I just wanted to tell you I'm happy for you. You look like you're happy and it seems like things are going very well for you. Your financial windfall, your camaro, your beautiful daughters school pics, etc. Have a great night!

FROM HER TO HIM

Hi just read your email, I think the first you ever bothered to write me, I feel honored No big deal today, didnt really think anything of it, you are a guy haha
.I'm not exactly happy or unhappy but really do always try and make the best of things. I probably seem that way cause I'm not so ****ed up over you like before, finally put things in perspective, as they should have been all along. Maybe now you see the real me. I hope you are happy and going to be alright with the **** thats going on in your life, just know that I actually can make a great and trustworthy friend if you ever wanna let me in. Good seein you today, you still look handsome

______________________________________________________

Alright folks..so I'm wondering if they were "just friends" WHY she is not ****ed up over him like she was before? Would a woman be screwed over a friendship like that? I don't know he continues to tell me that he never "touched" her. None of this adds up. Of course he's not going to tell me he had an affair..

So when I confronted him about it of course he said "why are you checking my email?" never answered anything or explained anything. Simply said "thanks alot" and hung up on my face. He's contined to text me like nothing has happened. Then, he hasn't really called for the past few days..I was wondering why? Did he not have anything to say to cover it up? The whole hang up makes me feel like he's guilty..he said it was because he was around his friend but he could have called to explain...

On top of this chick I found out he was emailing another ex girlfriend of his via facebook in which he said he'd never do again either...

Can someone PLEASE give me feedback in telling me that I'm right in thinking something more than "friendship" went on and I need to leave his ass...


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## dhh123 (May 1, 2011)

Sacred, it's time to move on.

If you're checking his email, harboring suspicions, getting hung up on and wondering what's going on, you're not looking for answers from anyone here or even proof, you're looking for permission.

You're a big girl and you don't need permission. You need to find someone that will treat you as you want to be treated, not as a convenience as this seems.

Good luck, we're with you.

David


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

In my opinion that e-mail exchange neither confirms nor denies your boyfriend and this woman are having a sexual relationship. However, it does give you reason not to trust your boyfriend. You have now caught him in several lies. Without trust your relationship can never have a strong foundation.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks for posting such quick replies. 827Aug, what are your thoughts on all of the other signs? It's not only the email exchange. He was at a bar with this woman and secretly texting her 20 times a day during work but deleted the texts from his phone. They would text from morning until 5 when I was on my way home. All of the activity stopped then. Don't you think all of that is a huge issue? 

Why would this woman be so "*****ed" over him if they were just friends?

Any more responses would be great...I'm hysterical right now...in the process of probably moving out...


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I agree; your boyfriend is most likely cheating. At the very minimum it was an EA--but probably more. The e-mails, however, don't give solid proof. But, when you look at the whole picture, more clarity is visible. The bottom line is that he lied and trust has eroded.

You should have seen some of the e-mails I discovered between my husband and his women. They were chopped full of details and were quite explicit (that they were engaged sexually). I don't see that in the e-mail dialog you presented. Nonetheless, your boyfriend is not telling the truth about his involvement with this woman. The sum of all red flags equals legitimate concerns...and proof of a big problem.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

So I'm hysterical...he just called and said that he swears he never touched this woman. That she just had a crush on him and must have wanted something more. I mean, why was he flirting with her and reaching out to her daily through text? Texting 20-30 times a day until I got home from work and ALL texts were deleted from his phone? 

Then I told him I was leaving and he is upset but is not fighting for me to stay? Why? So I asked him and his response is that I started problems by looking at his email and accusing him of doing more than emailing, telling my friends and family that I was moving, etc. That he wasn't going to fight for THAT. Is he trying to turn things around on me or what!?

I'm crying hysterically as I pack because he now has me second guessing myself. I'm so distraught. Please someone give me some words of encouragment. I feel like I'm going to lose it.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Take a deep breath and try to stay composed. My therapist taught me a great line to remember which does seem to help. Remember no matter what crisis arises that you are only in this world but not of this world. In other words, learn to detach yourself from the drama.

Yes, he is trying to turn this around on you. It's pretty standard cheater behavior. A person who has nothing to hide does not lie, delete texts, or mind that you see their e-mails. Had this been an innocent friendship, your boyfriend would have talked to the OW in front of you and texted her in your presence.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

He is trying to rewrite history and blame you, take none of his nonsense . He was and is cheating on you, make sure your family and friends know that and do not doubt yourself. He will be a professional liar even under the utmost pressure. The best you can do now is create as big a space away from him and cut all links, block his phone and emails, focus on yourself. 

At the moment you are in love with him the hurt from his betrayal will be with you for a while, it will pass, it is fortunate you caught him now and not later if you married and had children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

u know what to do.

get busy "doing it".

827's right. not proof either way but trust is shot.

at some pt u must wake up and see who u are, and what

u r truly worth. forgive him, but move on. to marry him

would be foolish and get you what a fool deserves, no?

dont worry....plenty o' fish in the sea!

shalom......


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Oh guys and gals..you are all such a help right now in my despair. He's now on the path of crying and hysterical. Says that is was nothing. He never touched anyone. He did what he did but was never unfaithful. That I shouldn't take the fact that he was faithful from him because that was the only good he did give me. That he loves me and wishes me the best...

Then ten minutes later he calls and tells me to stop packing. That I just need to trust him. It was harmless which is why he never told me. That she just has a "crush" on him. He said that all he's done has been harmless and that I probably have my own secrets. But he was never allowed to have a private life. That I was always checking his cell phone, etc. Well, I did because I didn't trust him. I just always had a feeling. It doesn't help that he told me when we first started dating that he had infidelity issues until he got married and then he stopped. He doesn't even remember calling or communicating with this woman two weeks ago nor his other ex that he was emailing. He said that's how insignificant it was that he didn't even remember nor care to remember.

He told me that I probably have my own secrets and that I guard everything, my cell, personal life, etc. The truth is he NEVER had a reason to be concerned. I've been a good and faithful woman to him. I've always been forthcoming with information such as friends, etc. He told me because I was forthcoming didn't mean that I was telling him "everything". I don't get it. I told him just because he THOUGHT I was being bad behind his back didn't give him the right to do what he did.

I don't know he keeps telling me that I was the one and that he won't be able to talk to me in the future cause he knows I'm going to be out there dating, having sex, etc. and he doesn't want to know about it..he can't deal with it. 

I'm not that kind of a girl. So he went from being tough guy saying he won't fight with me to sad and hysterical promising nothing ever happened...

I'm so sad right now..he has me questioning myself...like am I paranoid? I've always had trust issues with men but this is all in my face. Not fake and I've had reasons to check. He last year on my birthday was also texting ANOTHER ex of his and she was catty when I called her..told me that what they were texting was none of my concern. If they were just friends why be so catty? Anyway, he lied about those texts too..they were all deleted...I don't know. Just so many secrets and lies but then he tells me he couldn't tell me cause he knew I'd get mad so back to questioning myself...


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

He's trying to shift the blame on you rather than take the heat. Hey, you prob have secrets too, right? You aren't perfect either. Yeah I talked to her but I never touched her. 

If that is what he's telling you, be prepared for many years of this if you stay w/him and/or get married. This isn't gonna change. You're already starting off like this while you're dating. Doesn't sound too good.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Sacredheart:

He is doing what waywards do , he has been caught and will try every trick in the book other than be truthful or remorseful only if and when he gets to this stage then and only then do you countenance talking to him. Move out , separate the finances and stay on track , if he questions you looking at his phone and mail the answer is there are no secrets in a relationship, privacy is for the bathroom secrecy is deceit.

Please do not doubt yourself the tactic he is following is to cause you to doubt yourself , you caught him cheating period , it is a no brainer that he should not be communicating with these women especially since he hides it away, those very actions is an air raid siren telling all he is up to no good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks for the encouraging words everyone..I'm not falling for it...I'm moving out. Packed up most of my stuff yesterday and am going to sign the lease today. This way I can't back out..lol. I'm doing what I have to do.

I have a HUGE fear kicking in right now. When we started dating I made him test for HIV and I did as well because I figured he was the ONE. Well, since then, no tests and I'm freaking out that he may have given me something. I would just die. I would be devastated to know that he wasn't careful and compromised my life. 

Does anyone have anything encouraging to say? I'm panicking and I know I need to take one thing at a time but this is eating at me on top of all of the other stress and hurt I have..


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

You deserve better. You deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. You ARE strong enough to get through this, and you will come out happier and in charge of your life on the other end. I know its hard to see, but you can do it!


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Hello everyone! I'm back because I'm in the biggest state of sadness and confusion. He's been chirping in my ear. I did move out. I've been on my own since Thursday and haven't slept at all. 

I did see him on Saturday to take some extra's that my mom accidentally packed and it was hard. 

He keeps texting and calling. We've talked quite a bit and he's so not letting me go. I told him I don't get it. I left him with nothing and he's still fighting for the relationship. I would think that if he were innocent and never touched anyone and it was harmless that he'd be so upset that I moved for nothing that he would just let me go. Is it right to think the fact that he's still fighting for me is because he got caught? I just think it's weird. 

He said that he's fighting for me because he loves me and can't picture his life without me. That we can take this time to work on ourselves and come out stronger than ever.

I still can't get over the email and the way she talked to me on the phone and all of the other little things he's done to make me not trust. I mean, if he did have an affair and cut it off with her, I don't get why he opened the door again by calling her to tell her that he's "happy for her". If you re-read my first post with their email exchange you'll see that he probably cut it off because she said "I think this is the first you ever wrote me back". I don't understand...why open the door again?

Now I know that he knows I haven't been 100% happy and has mentioned that he thought I would cheat on him. Do you think he opened the doors with ex's back up for security? To know that they are still there if need be? 

Also, he keeps promising he never touched her. That it was harmless. That she is sooo messed up over him because she had a crush. I'm like, really? Do 46 year old women just develop crushes and take things the wrong way if things only seem like a friendship? Could she be that psycho to take him the wrong way? 

He keeps saying that he knows he did wrong and it will never happen again. He never touched her and wants nothing to do with her, etc. etc. That I made a very EMOTIONAL decision by moving out within a week. I wasn't thinking logically. 

I don't know. Can any of you re-read the original post with emails, etc and give me some more advice. 

I'm just confused again. Like what if I did leave the man that I love and it was just a friendship that he hid because he knows that I'm jealous? Or am I way off track? Is the writing on the wall? Am I in denial?

Thanks so much for all of your thoughts..you have no idea how much it all means to me!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

sacredheart:- He is behaving like this because he knows what he is losing, unfortunately he is still not giving the trust to you by acknowledging his cheating or the scope of it. 

Its very early days for you, carry on with your life, ignore his text messages and calls, if you have to change your number or have his blocked. 

You need time on your own to breathe meet other people and understand what life is like without having to double check if the guy who says he loves you is chasing another girl. 

Trust me on this, take it easy , go no contact with him, give yourself some space, be free, nothing will improve if you get back with him , he has not changed and there is a good chance he never will.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> sacredheart:- He is behaving like this because he knows what he is losing, unfortunately he is still not giving the trust to you by acknowledging his cheating or the scope of it.
> 
> Its very early days for you, carry on with your life, ignore his text messages and calls, if you have to change your number or have his blocked.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanx eli-zor. He has admitted 2 wrong but still says he didn't cheat cause he not touch her, etc. That it was harmless so no need 2 tell me, get me upset and wondering. After all you've read do u think that cheating is the only scenario? Or possible just friends? Someone please give it to me straight. Am I dumb and in denial?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

What he did was cheat , if you were married it would be called an emotional affair. He did this knowing full well it was wrong, that it would hurt you, what he did not know is you would find out and leave, he is a practicing adulterer and as be is not remorseful why be with such a man. 

For you to heal you must stop analysing, he cheated period , there is no other interpretation. Is he the kind of man who you want to be married to, if so practice sleuthing as it is going to be a full time occupation. Do not hurt yourself anymore ,let go, there are men out there who will love you for who you are, will be proud to be with you and will not consider cheating. The man you left is not one of them, he has an attitude problem starting with a serious lack of respect for you and no you are not dumb or in denial you are quite savvy .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Hi everyone...I keep re-reading the email and trying to figure out what it means..if they had something and he cut it off or if this woman is just a 46 year old cougar who took my boyfriend the wrong way when he just gave her friendship and she went nutso over him? Or if it's legit that it seems like cheating? Can you guys please re-read this and let me know? I need help..badly...I'm in panic...

Hi just read your email, *I think the first you ever bothered to **write me*, I feel honored No big deal today, didnt really think anything of it, you are a guy haha
.I'm not exactly happy or unhappy but really do always try and make the best of things. *I probably seem that way cause I'm **not so ****ed up over you like before*, finally put things in perspective, as they should have been all along. *Maybe now you see the real me*. I hope you are happy and going to be alright with the **** thats going on in your life, just know that *I actually can make a great and trustworthy friend if you ever wanna let me in. Good seein you today, you still look handsome*

My whole thing right now is IF they were just friends WHY is she saying "just know that I can make a great and trustworthy friend if you ever wanna let me in"

If they were just friends why is she saying she can be a friend now? Right? Someone please help me....


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

She is playing with words and she knows he likes it. Stop now , all you are doing is causing yourself trauma. He is a big boy, if be cared for you he would never had any interaction with her and would have written her a robust note telling her to go away permanently using far more expressive words than I wrote here.

Healing starts with you, start healing and move on. You must not be in the position as some who ignore such red flags and ruin their lives later on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Playing with words how? Doesn't it show that he hasn't reached out to her? That she was reaching out to him and she was surprised? Does that mean that she was psycho and he was just a friend or does that mean they were together and he cut it off and she went psycho?

I just can't understand the I can be a friend comment if that's all they were? ya know?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Do not make excuses for his behaviour non of us can mind read what they were thinking and unless you polygraph him you are not going to get the answers to your questions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

I was just hoping for more thoughts on what it all could possibly mean? If it's cheating or something less? Obviously I'm battling a ton in my mind...


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Good morning all...I was just wondering if any other's on the forum cared to chime in? I'm just feeling so vulnerable and feeling like I'm going to buy into what's he's saying because I'm confused...

Can someone else perhaps offer input? I would appreciate it so much...I'm feeling weaker than ever...


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Just want to add that he wanted to see me yesterday and I didn't make it so now he's not calling or texting and giving me the silent treatement. This is after he's been calling, texting, everyday..how and why does one do that? Communicate constantly and then disappear? What does that all mean?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Go dark, ignore him focus on yourself it is your biggest asset. When he sees you are his equal or better then and only then will he treat you with respect. Go out, get a new hair style, change your nail colour , move on with life , your very actions will be noticed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> Just want to add that he wanted to see me yesterday and I didn't make it so now he's not calling or texting and giving me the silent treatement. This is after he's been calling, texting, everyday..how and why does one do that? Communicate constantly and then disappear? What does that all mean?


It's called push/pull and it's very effective for attracting women. It gives them something to analyze. Women love analyzing things. Emotionally confused women are especially obsessive analyzers.

Your boyfriend cheated on you. I know this because he was meeting this woman secretly, he was emailing and texting her secretly (and trying to cover his tracks by deleting the evidence), and he had lipstick and semen stains on his clothing that weren't from you. The words of the email you read are not the smoking gun. The email combined with all the other evidence and behavior is the smoking gun. I am now finished analyzing. You should stop too. You are not going to discover a videotape or DNA evidence conclusively proving that he cheated. But I can tell you that semen stains don't magically appear for no reason.

Your boyfriend is now trying to win you back. Does he love you? Maybe. Does he love other women? Maybe. If you take him back, will he cheat again? Probably. If you are working toward marriage in your future, you should try to find a loyal and trustworthy man.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks guys! I'm going to go on the ignore..focus on myself deal. I was just wondering from PHTlump..like I'm wondering now if he actually loved the other women or used her? Like why would she get so nutso over him if he was still with her? Seems that they cut it off, right? 

Yes, the lipstick..forgot about that...and the semen stains in his boxers from when we weren't intimate...he says they are his because of masturbation though...

Still seem bad?


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

So glad you've moved out and are ignoring him! He cheated. No question in my mind. Semen stains, lipstick, lies, ex-girlfriends..... forget him.

He keeps saying he didn't touch her, I don't buy it. Plus, I'm sure she touched him. He doesn't have to touch her to get a bj.

If you go back to him, be prepared to feel this way indefinitely. Always questioning, wondering, looking for evidence. Eventually, you will find the hard evidence you're looking for, but think of all the time you'd waste worrying until that day.

Bottom line. When you're in a committed relationship, there shouldn't be other girlfriends, even if they are "just friends". I love this scene from "When Harry met Sally" and I think it's very fitting.

Harry Burns: You realize of course that we could never be friends. 
Sally Albright: Why not? 
Harry Burns: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way. 
Sally Albright: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved. 
Harry Burns: No you don't. 
Sally Albright: Yes I do. 
Harry Burns: No you don't. 
Sally Albright: Yes I do. 
Harry Burns: You only think you do. 
Sally Albright: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge? 
Harry Burns: No, what I'm saying is they all WANT to have sex with you. 
Sally Albright: They do not. 
Harry Burns: Do too. 
Sally Albright: They do not. 
Harry Burns: Do too. 
Sally Albright: How do you know? 
Harry Burns: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her. 
Sally Albright: So, you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive? 
Harry Burns: No. You pretty much want to nail 'em too. 
Sally Albright: What if THEY don't want to have sex with YOU? 
Harry Burns: Doesn't matter because the sex thing is already out there so the friendship is ultimately doomed and that is the end of the story. 
Sally Albright: Well, I guess we're not going to be friends then. 
Harry Burns: I guess not. 
Sally Albright: That's too bad. You were the only person I knew in New York. 

I agree with Harry. I'm so sorry you're going through this, but give yourself time. When you finally start dating a man that gains your trust, you'll be so thankful.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks everyone. Someone just brought this up:

*To me - it sounds like maybe he let his friendship go too far with her, not necessarily an affair but perhaps where she had feelings for him and he wanted to see if he had feelings for her - I'm only speculating but it looks like at one point he said NO to her and said STOP. Which is good. Again - I'm only speculating.* 

Does this sound like an option or do most of you think it was cheating?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Wanting to see if he had feelings for her = behaving inappropriately and not having your best interest.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

He was cheating, your in a bit of fog at the moment and are trying very hard to find reasons/excuses for his behaviour. This is a natural reaction for someone you care for however he does not care enough for you , if he did he would not have even started this. Consider this to your post , what happens if he did like her, what will happen if another woman comes along and he likes her, do you want to be there looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> Yes, the lipstick..forgot about that...and the semen stains in his boxers from when we weren't intimate...he says they are his because of masturbation though...
> 
> Still seem bad?


Like I said. There is no one thing that screams CHEATING!!! It's a lot of little things. And they all point in the same direction.

It is inarguable that he was having an inappropriate relationship with this woman. Even if it was platonic, and I doubt it was, he was hiding it from you. A relationship you hide from your girlfriend is an inappropriate relationship.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks guys...that's the thing there is not one huge thing that SCREAMS cheating...

He always says that he didn't mention her because it was nothing...that he knew I'd be upset...that if I wanted to I could check the cell records...

Which I did eventually and look what I found?!


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> Back in June a friend of mine saw my live in boyfriend out with another woman at a bar. He denied, of course. Then in October found out him and this woman he was "seen" with at the bar were texting like crazy.


Red flag here. Secret contact with another woman that you don't know about AND secret communication with her. The biggest component in any affair, be it a EA or PA, is the secrecy involved.



sacredheart said:


> Now, when I confronted him they were just friends but yet he never told me about her. He had told me about ALL of his other female friends at work. Her for some reason..never mentioned.


Red flag. In workplace affairs, it's always the coworker that he hasn't told you about, or the coworker that he suddenly stops talking about.



sacredheart said:


> Also, when I called her to confront her she was very catty...told me to "take it up with him". That was very odd. I mean, a woman should just say they're friends when that's the case, right?


She's neither denying nor confirming. But since she said to take it up with him is concerning. I've read posts in OW forums, and in general it seems when the BW contacts the OW, the OW typically says to take it up with the husband, as if OW is blameless. 



sacredheart said:


> Now, there have been random things to make me believe that something was up for the past year..lipstick on his collar (he didn't know where it was from),


Red flag. How does a man get lipstick on his collar? Does he work in a lipstick factory or something? I know I've never had lipstick on my collar.



sacredheart said:


> white suspicous stains on his boxers when we weren't intimate, extra facebook activity, etc.


Semen leakage from sex or jacking off. Extra facebook activity isn't a red flag by itself, unless he is doing it while you're not in the room or late at night or while you're sleeping.



sacredheart said:


> Well, for MONTHS he told me that they were JUST friends.


Red flag. They say the 4 deadliest words to a relationship is "He's/She's Just A Friend". If he says that in addition to the secret communication and meetings, then yes, that's a Red Flag.



sacredheart said:


> He was never at a bar with her and they texted about me, places for her to see cause she was new in town, etc.


Red flag. He WAS seen at a bar wit her, and he secretly communicated with her ABOUT YOU. 



sacredheart said:


> He pretty much told me I was crazy and turned things around on me every time I brought it up..


This is called gas lighting. Yet another red flag.



sacredheart said:


> WELL...He accidentally left his email open and this is what I found and this exchange is from 2 weeks ago...AFTER he said he would never contact her again, etc...


Red flag. Breaking NC after he said he would go NC.



sacredheart said:


> .I'm not exactly happy or unhappy but really do always try and make the best of things. I probably seem that way cause I'm not so ****ed up over you like before, finally put things in perspective, as they should have been all along.


Red Flag. This shows at the minimum that she was emotionally invested in him. 



sacredheart said:


> Maybe now you see the real me. I hope you are happy and going to be alright with the **** thats going on in your life, just know that I actually can make a great and trustworthy friend if you ever wanna let me in. Good seein you today, you still look handsome


They might have broken it off her, BUT he was sharing intimate details of your relationship with her. 



sacredheart said:


> On top of this chick I found out he was emailing another ex girlfriend of his via facebook in which he said he'd never do again either...


Red Flag. Yet another broken NC with someone he promised NC with, AND with a former lover no less. He seems to have a problem keeping promises and loose boundaries.

The red flags point to a definite Emotional Affair (EA) at the very least, with some signs of a Physical Affair (PA). The question is this a deal breaker for you?


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

I mean, it should be a deal breaker, right?

I keep wondering if he hid her because I've shown streaks of jealousy due to mistrust in the past or if he hid her because there was something bad going on?

I also still don't get why she said I can make a good and trustworthy friend if you ever wanna let me in.

Doesn't that sound like they weren't friends before but wants to be friends now?


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm remembering now when he started exhibiting untrustworthiness the one ex he was just recently emailing he called and texted her 6 months after moving in with me. When I called her at first she said she didnt know who he was although they spoke twice for 15 minutes each time. When I asked HIM who the number belonged to he said his boss's wife. So then I had a feeling he was going to call her again...I checked the cell phone record and he had talked to her for like 3 minutes...I had a feeling if I called her again that she would say that her husband is his friend. So I called and guess what? That's exactly what she said. So he took those few minutes to call her and say, hey if my girlfriend calls, tell her you're my boss wife. Can you BELIEVE that?!?! I mean, is that sketchy?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> . Can you BELIEVE that?!?! I mean, is that sketchy?


Yes, I can believe that. because he lied to you before about it.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

His whole "I didn't tell you about her, because it was nothing and I knew you'd be upset" is BS. If he knew you'd be upset, then why talk to her?

My husband had an affair. Right now trust is tentative at best. I have access to everything and he knows not to delete any texts. If I saw an unknown number with deleted texts, I'd be suspicious and more upset. Why delete texts if they were really nothing? If my husband got a text from the OW right now, showing me the content would be better than deleting it. Sure I'd be upset that she contacted him, but by seeing the text I'd know.... she contacted him, what she wrote, and how he responded. Deleting everything.... RED FLAG! I'd be packing his bag.

If this woman was emotionally attached to your boyfriend, then he should've come to you and explained what was going on. If he was not encouraging her behavior, then there would not have been any reason for you to be upset. The fact that he didn't seek your help or advice, seems to point that he was trying to decide if he wanted her over you. Or at the very least, was enjoying the ego boost her attention was giving him. Either way... RED FLAG! If he didn't have a PA with her, he will with the next woman who grabs his attention. He's not owning up to his part in her attachment to him, so there will be no change in his behavior if you take him back.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

So now I'm panicking on whether he gave me something...specificially HIV. If this guy is a cheater like we think and he didn't use protection he could have potentially brought something home to me. Now HIV is always a HUGE fear because I saw an uncle pass from it. You would think he would know to respect my life and not put it in jeopardy. 

We got tested in the beginning of the relationship 3 years ago and both negative. Then I tested again in November of 2010 but I need to retest again for August 2010 on as I'm only in the clear from them. That gives him ALOT of time to get infected...

I'm sooo scared right now! That would just be my luck. My life would be over. I'm just traumatized...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> So now I'm panicking on whether he gave me something...specificially HIV. If this guy is a cheater like we think and he didn't use protection he could have potentially brought something home to me.


The risk of female to male infection from a single penile to vaginal encounter is estimated between 0.01% and 0.1%. So don't worry too much. You should get tested, but the odds of infection are low.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

THANK you for saying that PHTlump...that helps ease my fears a ton!

You've all been so wonderful..thank you!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Saffron said:


> His whole "I didn't tell you about her, because it was nothing and I knew you'd be upset" is BS. If he knew you'd be upset, then why talk to her?


He hid it because he knew it was wrong. Plain and simple. If he had nothing to hide, he would have been up front about it. 

Re: STDS -- get tested STAT.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

*Horrible Timing - Urgent*

Hello everyone - I thought I was done with all of this. Was getting ready to move on with my life. I found out today that I'm pregnant! I feel numb. Don't even know what to do with myself. I feel conflicted. Wondering why God would give me the strength to move on to have this happen? I have a beautiful teenage daughter and have considered having another child but not in a situation like this. I mean, it's not the best situation as you all know.

Can any of you please offer some guidance as I'm needing it right now more than ever. 

Thank you all in advance for your thoughts...


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Please do not go back to him because you are pregnant , there will be nothing worse than bringing a child into a house and years later ripping the child out of the safety of a family home due to his ongoing behaviour.

I suggest you stay where you are and give yourself some time to think and settle the emotions, don't tell him as yet, he must be told but only when you are ready. This is very big decision and based loosely on what you have written I suggest you quickly plan on getting yourself a home for yourself. Your babies father should be there for his child, should you decide to carry on with the pregnancy, however this must not impact your decisions and future relationship you may chose to have with a man who loves you.

Your mind is going to be all over the place , many get back together due to a pregnancy only to have an unfulfilled relationship where there is either an affair or an unhappy family home.

Try not to stress , see your doctor and let them know of your situation , they may recommend some steps to help you relieve the tension and stress you are under.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Eli-Zor - Thanks for responding and the advice. 

I have moved out already and am settled in as of last week.

I have told him already. He is the first and the only that knows until I decide what to do. He is ecstatic. So happy. Says that he'll make everything happen. To come along with him. Settle down and we'll take a smart, responsible journey and tackle any obstacle. He told me he's so happy to have this blessing from God. It's like I don't think he gets it. It's like no big deal to him. Anything he's done. 

That is not making anything easier on me. 

I don't know if I can bring another child into this world into an unhealthy relationship and home. I raised my first child on my own and that was hard. It's just surreal to me to think that I'd have to do it all over again when she's off to college next year. 

I just need to make a decision and one soon. I just can't believe that all of this is happening to me right now.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

It is short term euphoria on his side, did he admit his cheating, I guess not so he is he same man looking for another way to draw you in. It will be difficult to be logical, follow what you think is best, he may have sired the baby but until you decide to put a name on a certificate or a court of law decides otherwise it is your decision, it is your journey , spend some time deciding what to do, the only right answer is what do you want to do, no other opinion counts. Hang in there, trust your decision, don't take to long as it gets more difficult with passing time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> It is short term euphoria on his side, did he admit his cheating, I guess not so he is he same man looking for another way to draw you in. It will be difficult to be logical, follow what you think is best, he may have sired the baby but until you decide to put a name on a certificate or a court of law decides otherwise it is your decision, it is your journey , spend some time deciding what to do, the only right answer is what do you want to do, no other opinion counts. Hang in there, trust your decision, don't take to long as it gets more difficult with passing time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Hi everyone. So he came over today so we could talk. Made him dinner and when it came down to talking he asked what I wanted to talk about. I told him that I need all of my questions answered in order for me to consider moving forward. He said no, he's done answering questions. I told him that the answers of "it was harmless", "I don't know", "I don't know what is in that womans head and what she's thinking or why she wrote or said that" is not a good enough answer and that I need details. He got up and left. Said that I obviously have not learned my lesson to stop asking questions. That I always take us right back to zero when we're having fun and just left! I really cannot believe him. What does he think? That storming out without answers is going to make things right? I'm just upset. Not sure why he won't talk and EXPLAIN without storming out! Is this cause he's guilty or because he really did nothing and is frustrated? I'm in such a pickle now finding out that I'm pregnant. I'm a mess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Your making all this worse for yourself, you are analysing and hoping he is going to step up to the mark and be a honest man with integrity. He is not , cheaters follow a script and he is on form, he will not tell you the truth, his behaviour demonstrates this. I feel for you as you are pregnant in a difficult situation however should you carry to term and bring your baby into the world, decide this soon, know that you on your own will be a far better family without him playing a major role. The man is a conceited cheat and does not have the moral fibre or backbone to tell the truth or behave like a possible future father. 

He knows you enough that he will carry on as he is and you will likely go back on his terms, if you do know he will cheat again, count the days. Stop all contact with him, every call , text and meeting will throw you into doubt and turmoil eventually you will start questioning the evidence . The healing starts with you, to heal properly there is no him in this, work on yourself make a decision what you want to do and follow that decision through. There is always going to be what if, but or maybe. All of these are distractions keeping you away from taking a journey that is the best for you.

Take time out for yourself , go to family or friends for a week . Use this period to help clear your thoughts. 

Look after yourself, breathe and stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks Eli-Zor..so after thinking some more last night..I thought of the question...how did this woman get his personal email address anyway? He didn't respond right away. Hung up on me.

Then texted this morning and said he said he gave her his email when I found out they were texting but never used it. So I said, so you wanted to continue the conversation with her through email AFTER I caught you guys texting!!!! What kind of an idiot do you think I am?!?! What kind of a woman did you make me look like to her?! Was it really THAT important to continue talking after you said you were done talking to her? That you cut her off?!?! I hung up on him.

He then texted and told me that I need to calm down. That I had a miscarriage last time because of the stress I was under and I said yes, because I found out you were texting her THEN. (yes, I was pregnant last October when I found he was texting her and had a miscarriage). If I'm so upset now, that I’m going to have another one, blah blah. We’ve been text arguing all morning. He told me go ahead and keep stirring stuff up. He said that he’s done talking to me. We don’t talk. You ask questions then accuse. When you are ready to talk about your future I hope I’m still around. I told him to get lost. I asked you earlier to leave me alone. I’m done talking to you. Don’t threaten me like I’m losing out. Are you out of your mind?! I told him you lost out and YOU can’t talk. I could care less if your around. EFF you and the EFFED up world you’re living in. He wrote back with HA HA HA! BYE! I wrote back and said, yes, exactly BYE. Get the bills put in your name today. He just texted back and said kill another baby psycho!

I can't believe he would say that to me. I'm crushed. Devastated. It wasn't my fault that I lost the baby last time. 

I just don't know what to do.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Of course it wasn't your fault you miscarried!!! Just stay away from this guy, I have been through this thing you are going through several times, and it has gotten easier every time. Just stay away from him, as hard as it is I know, it took me some time, but I do pretty darn good now. 

Don't let him stir stuff up, are you entitled to answers? Hell yes!! But you can't force them out of him, trust me, been there done that. Whatever answers I do get, I can't believe, because his actions don't match his behavior. My H doesn't want to answer questions either, for reasons unknown to me. I am finally to the point where I am not caring what he is doing. Take it one day at a time, go dark as they say, if you do choose to keep this pregnancy, get used to it, and embrace it and be excited for this new little life.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> Thanks Eli-Zor..so after thinking some more last night..I thought of the question...how did this woman get his personal email address anyway? He didn't respond right away. Hung up on me.
> 
> Then texted this morning and said he said he gave her his email when I found out they were texting but never used it. So I said, so you wanted to continue the conversation with her through email AFTER I caught you guys texting!!!! What kind of an idiot do you think I am?!?! What kind of a woman did you make me look like to her?! Was it really THAT important to continue talking after you said you were done talking to her? That you cut her off?!?! I hung up on him.
> 
> ...


Start no contact, NOW! By being emotional you're showing him that he still has a hold on you. 

I'm sorry he's being so horrible. You truly will be happier without him.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You must start listening to us, this is for your own well being , all this drama plays into his hands it a game for him , there is only one loser YOU. 

Block his number and do not ever contact him again, get your life stable , you will feel low right now. Know this when you have got past all his dishonesty, spite and malice you will still be the better person and deserve a happy life. Settle yourself and seek that life without him.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Yes everyone I know. We've been at it all day. I've said some mean things but I 'm sorry..I feel he deserved to hear everything I said. So this is what he responded with. Totally turning the tables on me. Making me feel bad.

When you are ready to be civil and happy and move forward with me and my support, my love let me know... If I don't hear from you I will assume you have decided on taking another route. If you decide to ask another question, write another condemning email or send another text cutting me down then I will deal with you differently. YOU DETERMINE THE MAN YOU ARE GOING TO GET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT. ATTACK ME, I WILL BLAZE GUNS.... ACCUSE ME I WILL ACT ON IT EVEN IF I DONT WANT TO. LOVE ME AND I WILL OPEN THE FLOOD GATES. CALL ME DADDY, PAPI OR THE FATHER OF YOUR CHILD AND I WILL BE YOUR PROVIDER FOREVER. TAKE ME OR LEAVE ME. AND THAT'S ALL I WANT TO HEAR THE NEXT TIME WE SPEAK. WHETHER OR NOT YOU WILL TAKE ME OR LEAVE ME....... I'LL TALK TO YOU IN A FEW DAYS WHEN YOUR MIND IS CLEAR AND YOU HAVE LET THESE LAST FEW SENTENCES SINK IN A BIT. 

How do I even respond to that to let him know that he's NOT turning this around on me!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

He knows what buttons to push and you consistently take the bait. Do you not feel as if you are on a TV show.

He cheats, he plays you, he no doubt plays other woman, he is good because he knows his bad boy tough guy image gets a reaction.

Do not react and move on with your life. Go dark and change the game.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/si


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> Yes everyone I know. We've been at it all day. I've said some mean things but I 'm sorry..I feel he deserved to hear everything I said. So this is what he responded with. Totally turning the tables on me. Making me feel bad.
> 
> When you are ready to be civil and happy and move forward with me and my support, my love let me know... If I don't hear from you I will assume you have decided on taking another route. If you decide to ask another question, write another condemning email or send another text cutting me down then I will deal with you differently. YOU DETERMINE THE MAN YOU ARE GOING TO GET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT. ATTACK ME, I WILL BLAZE GUNS.... ACCUSE ME I WILL ACT ON IT EVEN IF I DONT WANT TO. LOVE ME AND I WILL OPEN THE FLOOD GATES. CALL ME DADDY, PAPI OR THE FATHER OF YOUR CHILD AND I WILL BE YOUR PROVIDER FOREVER. TAKE ME OR LEAVE ME. AND THAT'S ALL I WANT TO HEAR THE NEXT TIME WE SPEAK. WHETHER OR NOT YOU WILL TAKE ME OR LEAVE ME....... I'LL TALK TO YOU IN A FEW DAYS WHEN YOUR MIND IS CLEAR AND YOU HAVE LET THESE LAST FEW SENTENCES SINK IN A BIT.
> *
> How do I even respond to that to let him know that he's NOT turning this around on me!*


You don't. And when he contacts you in a few days ignore that as well. Expect him to up his fight when you ignore him. He'll call you crazy, tell you he never loved you, that everything is your fault, he'll make sure he gets full custody of the child, etc. If that doesn't work he'll say all he wants is you, he's willing to change, everything will be better if you just talk to him. 

He will do everything he can to regain control. DO NOT LET HIM!


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## Wolf359 (Jun 10, 2010)

WhereAmI said:


> You don't. And when he contacts you in a few days ignore that as well. Expect him to up his fight when you ignore him. He'll call you crazy, tell you he never loved you, that everything is your fault, he'll make sure he gets full custody of the child, etc. If that doesn't work he'll say all he wants is you, he's willing to change, everything will be better if you just talk to him.
> 
> He will do everything he can to regain control. DO NOT LET HIM!




:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Hi everyone. Haven't been here for a bit as I've been doing some major thinking. I'm in such a pickle right now. Struggling with a decision. I know that I need to make one very soon.

He has been talking lots. Making all of these promises to change. He wants to get married, buy a home, settle down. He keeps saying what a blessing this child is, etc. and is so happy. That he'd never hurt me again.

I'm just so confused. He makes everything sound so appealing and is starting to make me have the "what if's". What if he did change after having a child with me? What if he doesn't and I'm stuck being a single mom again? 

I'm just so torn and I need to make a decision probably no later than Wednesday. 

Is a liar a liar? Does the fact that he hid things have anything to do with the fact that I was a jealous girlfriend so he HAD to hide his relationship that he claims was just a friendship? 

I just don't even know where to turn right now.

Help...


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

If you marry him thinking he will change, you are a fool.

He has to change first and prove it over a long period of time.

If you don't do it in the right order, he will have no incentive to follow through and then you will be stuck in an unhappy marriage.

Use your common sense and other peoples experience. Don't fall for desperate promises.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

He has shown no inclination to be truthful , he verbally intimidates you, you know he knows he has cheated yet he is not man enough to stand up acknowledge his fault and evidence his change. Why would you want to be with such a man ? he is and will be the same man , a professional liar waiting for the opportunity to cheat. The only one that can change him is himself and he has neither the inclination or intent of doing so.

Do not fool yourself , you have a way forward even if it means you choose to be a single mother again. Do not go back on his terms he will simply repeat his cheating ways.

Focus on you, you are giving him far to much airtime.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thank you Clip Clop and Eli-zor. I keep thinking of how he said that he was faithful to his wife. I even talked to her and she said infidelity was never an issue. 

That makes me wonder if he's capable of not cheating? Like if he got married again, he'd stop?

Am I being silly?


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Capable? How about willing? These ate choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> Thank you Clip Clop and Eli-zor. I keep thinking of how he said that he was faithful to his wife. I even talked to her and she said infidelity was never an issue.
> 
> That makes me wonder if he's capable of not cheating? Like if he got married again, he'd stop?
> 
> Am I being silly?


I'd be concerned that he was lying about being faithful to his wife. Infidelity isn't an issue until you get caught. He can claim he was faithful, even if he wasn't. Be careful.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sacred, taht question is pretty common... if he gets with someone else, will he not do it to her?

Inquiring minds want to know, right?

But don't let it consume you. You have to react to the facts and the reality of YOUR situation, not "what if" in the future...

You already know what the score is w/ him so that is what you must respond to.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Hello everyone - was just hoping to get some more advice on this one. I'm SO torn on what to do. Whether to keep the baby or not. If it's healthy and the right thing to do. 

I'm also worried about my health and the fact that I'm considered high risk because of my age (37), the fact that I had preeclampsia my first pregnancy, a miscarriage, etc. I'm just wondering if this is all worth it. I have a beautiful healthy teenage daughter and am just starting to get my freedom back again. To start over with all of these risks..just not sure..then on top of it, the man that is the father?

He's promised all of these things but I don't know if I'll get them. If he'll ever change. If this will change him.

I keep thinking that maybe I'm wanting to move forward only because I love him and I'm hoping that he'll change. Or is that dumb thinking? Should I just snap out of it, step into reality and not go through with the pregnancy. Start a new life.

I'm really looking for some advice here. I'm hoping that no one gets upset about the fact that I'm considering termination.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

I myself am pro life however you are not me , I am not in your position and do not have the challenge of starting with rearing a child on my own as you do. Question for you is what do you want to do, keep your options open and speak to the clinic or your doctor for their view . The final decision is yours , decide when you have a little quiet time and whatever your decision is be happy with it.Do you have family or a good friend who you can talk to and if you do go in to be with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Eli-Zor - thank you

I have an appt this afternoon and am hoping that the doc will give me honest opinion. I'm scared and confused.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> I'm SO torn on what to do. Whether to keep the baby or not. If it's healthy and the right thing to do.
> 
> I'm also worried about my health and the fact that I'm considered high risk because of my age (37), the fact that I had preeclampsia my first pregnancy, a miscarriage, etc.


I don't know about those health conditions. I do know how life-threatening childbirth can be. My wife had a placental abruption with both our second and third children. The third was horrible. I wiped up lots of her blood from the room where she was before they rushed her to the OR. I almost lost both of them (her and my son) that night. I most likely would have if we hadn't been at Vanderbilt due to other issues with my son. They both were in very critical condition with blood transfusions and the like.

Also, I am very much Pro-life. There are many families out there that would love to have a baby and can't. My sister-in-law and her husband adopted a very wonderful little girl. We considered adoption at one point ourselves (before all of the marriage trouble, of course). Unless you are advised a pregnancy is life-threatening to you with your conditions, I would encourage you to consider adoption as an alternative to termination.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> I keep thinking that maybe I'm wanting to move forward only because I love him and I'm hoping that he'll change. Or is that dumb thinking?


Hoping and waiting for someone to change isn't hte answer.

Re: your pregnancy - you have to decide on your own what is best.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Hi everyone - it's been awhile. A lot has gone on since I've been on last. I had a miscarriage last week. Pretty traumatizing. Perhaps the stress of all of it. I don't know. I was going to keep the baby and decided to possibly work on things with him. I got back into a pattern of MAYBE he'll change cause he loves me so much. Well that wasn't the case, the last few weeks prior to my miscarriage he started acting a bit distant. Was still pleasant but not wanting to be around me as often. 

The night before last we decided to out and get a drink. He was acting wishy washy about it all day though. Like one minute not sure if he could, the next minute only for a few and then he has to go home. Now, we used to live together for 3 years till I moved out two months ago when I found and confirmed that he was having an E/A or even P/A with a woman at work. Normally on a night when he was too tired to drink he'd say baby lets just go home and watch a movie or something. This night he just wanted to go home and that was it. I was upset and questioned why he was acting differently. Like why he wasn't asking me to spend time. Wanted to know if he had plans with friends. He totally lost it on me. Said he's so annoyed with me, that I question him on everything, that I'm up his ass constantly and called me crazy, etc. I had NO idea where this was coming from. Anyway, I took him home and left. Had a horrible feeling in my stomach. 

I was hysterical at home. I mean, I just had a miscarriage and I'm emotional. Couldn't sleep all night. Woke up with the worst feeling in my stomach. I decided to swing by his house because I just sensed something was up. Well guess what? I look in his window and there is his ex looking like she is buttoning her shirt up. I decided to walk in through the back door and saw some wine glasses, a bed made on the living room floor (cause he only has two twins so he made one big one) and he came down and was like "what are you doing?" I said what are you doing? He said come on you gotta go...and pretty much made me leave...this is while she is upstairs hiding in the bathroom..

Anyway, he called a bit later and of course gave me the whole I didn't touch her, we didn't do anything...she was just in the area at a bar and I ran into her and she was really drunk and didn't have the key to her place so I offered for her to crash at my place. We didn't do anything but talk. We talked about you and I and she talked about her fiance and her situation (she's engaged) and that's ALL that happened. Totally innocent. He told me that I'm hurting more than warranted because it's not what it seems. I hung up and told him to leave me alone. He texted yesterday afternoon "baby don't leave me. You're my world and I don't want to be without you ever." I didn't respond and he called...said that he's SO sorry...that he never meant to hurt me...that he can't get my facial expression out of his mind...that I looked so traumatized..that he never wanted to see the fact that he loves so much look that way...he wants to know what he can to do fix it...told me to marry him and to let him put a ring on my finger...said that it'll never happen again..he made a mistake but didnt' touch her...

Now I know this is the longest thread ever but if you read some of my others you'll see that I've been dealing with suspicions for some time now..semen stains, lipstick stain on lower shirt, him being seen at a bar with a co-worker who turned out to be just a FRIEND that I never knew about and that he was texting 10-20 times a day and hid all of it from me, then found out he emailed the ex that he was with the other morning..

Can some of you PLEASE just offer me some advice. I've fallen for his crap for so long and I want to know if it's me or if this guy is unfaithful and a piece of crap and I need to kick him to the curb. 

Can/will marriage save anything? Counseling or is it pointless?

Also, my self esteem is so shot right now. When someone cheats is it because you're not good enough or the other woman is better than you? I don't get it.. I'm very attractive, have a great job, am a blast to be with, am wonderful to his children, he says we're best friends so how does someone ruin that?

Was it a major slip up and now he knows to never do it again? Or am I setting myself up to be treated this way forever if I don't walk? 

I couldn't believe it...


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Truly sorry to hear you lost your baby.

Why are you asking us about a future with this man? you know he is liar and a cheat . I guess you may think if you ask us enough times we will give you the answer you want to hear , the trust him marry him all will be ok with him answer, NO WE WONT , the answer is the same dump him and move on , stop being desperate and woman up. Kick this guy to the curb, call the OW's fiancé and out her for cheating.

You have to for your own sake break all contact with this man either that or keep quiet and appreciate his cheating ways.

Harsh answers but you have heard this before and still you carry on with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Eli-Zor I appreciate the harsh words..I don't know what's wrong with me. My self respect has diminished since being with him. I feel worthless because why would he cheat on me if I'm so good? 

I'm just numb..feel weak and pathetic..beyond pathetic...

He just really had me believing that he possibly didn't do anything inappropriate with her...I'm just dumb...

I need prayers and I need to get strong..get some confidence back but don't know how...I'm scared...


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

You need to move on- PLAIN AND SIMPLE. The answer has been staring you in the face, but you were unable to face it due to your pregnancy(my sympathy). Now that things have changed from that aspect- RUN!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

SH, I understand abut the self respect and confidence issue. I too felt so attached and submissive and willing to accept the blame my WW was putting on me in our marriage justifying her affair. I barely had the strength to say enough is enough I'm through and that is even with knowledge beyond a doubt that she was cheating, and moreso she was completely walking away and made it so clear there was no chance for R. So I can't imagine how hard it would be to walk, even knowing he doesn't treat you with respect, but just because he says he's so sorry and wants to stick around. Somewhere you have to find the strength to say enough is enough, because he is just stringing you along.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> He just really had me believing that he possibly didn't do anything inappropriate with her...I'm just dumb...


Your not dumb, your weak. You have been systematically broken down. That's a result of being the victim of prolonged abuse. Mental and emotional. Read up on the term "gaslighting" and educate yourself on it. See if the things you read about are familiar to you. Then read up on general emotional abuse.

Think about your relationship, does this sound familiar?

Phase 1 - TENSION BUILDING:
Tension increases, breakdown of communication, victim feels need to placate the abuser

Phase 2 - INCIDENT:
Verbal and emotional abuse. Anger, blaming, arguing. Threats. Intimidation.

Phase 3 - RECONCILIATION:
Abuser apologizes, gives excuses, blames the victim, denies the abuse occurred, or says it wasn't as bad as the victim claims.

Phase 4 - CALM:
Incident is "forgotten", no abuse is taking place.

Then it recycles back to 

Phase 1 - TENSION BUILDING
Phase 2 - INCIDENT
Phase 3 - RECONCILIATION
Phase 4 - CALM

ETc... Etc... ETc...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Eli's post is spot on. This guy is bad news. He said nothing happened with her? What a joke. Tell her fiance without her or your guy knowing about it. I know you feel low right now but he cheated because he is a cheater. A serial cheat. It has NOTHING to do with you. He sounds like a total jacka$$. Dump him and be done. I think the worst thing you could do is marry this guy. I am sorry about your miscarriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

SH,

He is manipulating you. You are letting him.

You are a worthwhile person. You do not deserve this creep or his manipulation.

Get out. Go no contact. Never have anything to do with him again. Block his cell. Delete his email. Take time to grieve. Grieve as much as you need. Find solace in your friends and family. Take time to find your self-worth from within. Talk to a counselor about self-esteem.

Then, when you are ready, find a guy who loves you for who you are. Who would never think to manipulate you or betray you.

You are worthwhile. You deserve so much more.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm sorry about your baby.

Feelings of inadequacy after this kind of betrayal are completely normal. They're also usually unfounded.

Why would Hugh Grant cheat on Elizabeth Hurley? Why would Billy Joel cheat on Christie Brinkley? Men's biology motivates us to desire multiple partners. You need to find a man with enough strength of character to ignore his biological urges.

For the record, marriage puts stress on relationships. It doesn't fix bad relationships. A relationship must be very strong to survive the stresses of a marriage. If you think you can fix this guy by marrying him, you're sorely mistaken.

Now that you have miscarried, you have no reason to have anything else to do with this man ever again. Lose his key. Lose his number. Don't answer his calls. Change your locks. There is literally no reason to ever speak to him again.

Good luck.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> I'm sorry about your baby.
> 
> Feelings of inadequacy after this kind of betrayal are completely normal. They're also usually unfounded.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thank you all! I really don't know what I'd do without this forum. Its amazing how he's cried, regrets, wants 2 settle down. I sometimes feel like he does love me. He is just not capable of loving the right way. He mentioned that he's at a cross roads. That he's bitter and angry from the years of my mistrust and questioning. That he wants to be with me but can't give me what I need while he feels resentment. That if I were good he'd be better. Makes me feel like my fault. Do u think he wanted to break up with me all along for this woman and this is his easy way out? I just don't get why he's not leaving me alone then?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> Thank you all! I really don't know what I'd do without this forum. Its amazing how he's cried, regrets, wants 2 settle down. I sometimes feel like he does love me. He is just not capable of loving the right way. He mentioned that he's at a cross roads. That he's bitter and angry from the years of my mistrust and questioning. That he wants to be with me but can't give me what I need while he feels resentment. That if I were good he'd be better. Makes me feel like my fault. Do u think he wanted to break up with me all along for this woman and this is his easy way out? I just don't get why he's not leaving me alone then?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What's better than having sex with one woman? Having sex with two (or more). There's your answer. If you're content being one of his women, then stay with him. If you want to have a man committed to you and only you, then you need to dump him and find someone else.

As for him claiming it's your fault that he sleeps around on you, I'm reminded of the video at the link below.
YouTube - ‪Pizza For Breakfast‬‏


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Hi everyone - just checking in because I’m not good at all..actually probably worse…I saw him yesterday…totally slipped up….I fainted in the morning (haven’t been eating) and I called him because he’s always been the one to calm me down/ease fears, etc. He lectured me and told me that I needed to eat, etc. Said that he had just made brunch for him and his daughters…I told him ok..I’m gonna grab something to eat, you’re right…so anyway, I got dolled up and got frustrated cause he didn’t ask me to come eat over there or anything..like I was surprised ya know? Cause on Friday he was texting and calling all day wanting to see me, etc. Anyway, I called him and asked him if he had money because I paid for the cell phone bill and didn’t get any from him..said that I was going to go get brunch or something somewhere cause he didn’t invite me over…told him I felt stupid for even saying anything but I feel like he should be up my ass (I know this is crazy as I shouldn’t even be talking to him..I think it’s a rejection thing)..anyway..he said he didn’t ask at first because he doesn’t want to deal with my funk…then he said that he was going to ask me to come over but I told him I was going to get something to eat…he lost reception and he texted “can’t keep reception, come on over”…then he texted and said “I would love to see you. I would love to hug you. I would love to feel your lips on mine. I would love to touch you and watch your stress melt away.”

Anyway, because I looked so smoking (I threw on the hottest black summer dress that he’s never seen me in – lol) I really just wanted to swing by so he could see what he was losing out on and to say thanks for the money I’m going to brunch with a friend now….I was in a weird state of mind yesterday…I’m all whacked out and not thinking rationally…anyway, I would up staying there..he asked me to hang out with him and his daughters go to the park, etc. Well, I totally did…I don’t know why and I knew I shouldn’t have but I did…He was really nice all day…kept trying to force feed me as I wasn’t hungry…we didn’t talk about anything other than if he ever told the OW that he had a girlfriend..he told me he doesn’t think so…he also told me that they never were a couple…just went on a few dates…

Anyway, the whole day I played super cool/fun me because I kept thinking I’m going to cut it off with him and this is the side I want him to remember..not the crazy me..

I feel SOOOOOOOOOOOO stupid and regretful for doing so though. I totally think that my plan backfired..I’m feeling like crap now because I’m wondering if he just hung with me yesterday because he feels sorry for me…you know how I fainted and everything and needed attention…I don’t think he would have asked to see me otherwise…

I have a feeling that the cigarette butts with lipstick were from her…just feel like she’s been lurking around for awhile…she wants him so bad…when he broke up with her for me she went psycho on him...

That gets me to is he really not wanting to be with ME anymore? Is he falling for her? I just don’t know what to do? I just don’t know how to get strong…to walk away…I’ve never been so weak in my entire life…was it a mistake? Does he really want to get married and change? Or is all of that thrown out of the window because I slipped and was cool with him yesterday?

I wish I just knew for sure…I wish I could reach out to her and have her be honest but I know that will never happen…even if she did and they just hooked up that night was it just a mistake? Or if she’s been around the whole time? I mean, if she said she’s been around the whole time how do I know she’s not lying about that because she wants us to really not be together and that’s her way to break us up?

I feel like the biggest idiot right now…I feel so sad that I’m even having to tell you this but I have to be honest with someone and you’ve all been my support through this whole thing…

I’m just a wreck..not feeling like myself..once again afraid to lose HIM…I feel rejected…like she’s better than me…that she won, etc.

I'm just losing my mind..can't focus on anything but him and the what if's, etc...

What do I do?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You have no intention of listening to us , do you? Until you fall to the bottom and are totally devastated by this man you are not going to stop. We have all encouraged you to take the right steps , he casts his line and sucks you in and you are back to where you were in the beginning. This man is a master and you are his plaything, wake up now stop destroying your life.

Hard no contact, delete his name block his number and go cold turkey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Eli-Zor - believe me, I know all of this. I just don't know how to deal with the rejection.

From what I know this girl never questioned him or argued with him..I have a feeling he's going to wind up marrying her. 

If I wouldn't have questioned then he would have maybe been better to me?

This is what I keep thinking. Like if I change then he'll stop. 

How do I get out of this stage that I'm in? I can't handle it....

I feel like she's better than me and that he chose her over me. She's been married before and is engaged now so she's doing something right that I couldn't give...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> Eli-Zor - believe me, I know all of this. I just don't know how to deal with the rejection.


You deal with rejection by going through the five stages of grief.
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance



sacredheart said:


> From what I know this girl never questioned him or argued with him..I have a feeling he's going to wind up marrying her.
> 
> If I wouldn't have questioned then he would have maybe been better to me?
> 
> This is what I keep thinking. Like if I change then he'll stop.


You could be right. Would you prefer to go back to you being the main squeeze and her being the mistress? You could probably switch roles and be the mistress if you would rather do that.

I am sure that your boyfriend prefers when his girlfriends are nice to him and don't question him. If you want to be with him, no matter what, I suggest you suck it up and just be nice, whether you are the main girlfriend or the mistress.



sacredheart said:


> How do I get out of this stage that I'm in? I can't handle it....


You have two choices. Your first choice is to give up and decide that your boyfriend's happiness is more important than yours. You realize that your boyfriend is a selfish person who wants more than one woman and the best you will ever be to him is one among many. Some women can accept this and perhaps even be happy being in a harem.

Your second choice is to decide that you can't be happy being one of many and you want a man who loves you and only you. That means you have to dump your boyfriend and move on. If you decide this, don't call your boyfriend to rub his nose in it. Don't visit him so he can see how cute you are. Don't sleep with him so that he'll miss sex with you. Just stop seeing him. He'll get the picture.



sacredheart said:


> I feel like she's better than me and that he chose her over me. She's been married before and is engaged now so she's doing something right that I couldn't give...


Give me a break. A relationship has nothing to do with your self worth. If marriage is that important to you, auction yourself off on craigslist. You'll be married this afternoon. The guy might be a sleaze, but that doesn't seem to be important to you. Then, since you're married and the other woman is only engaged, you'll be better than her.


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## 52flower (Mar 4, 2011)

Sacred, go back and reread what everyone has written advising you on how to see your situation. From my own personal experience, they are helping you with very wise advice. I am not happy that I went through what you are going through. I kept hoping & did not face the reality that I was with a manipulative, controlling, and selfish man with narcissistic tendencies. I put a lot of energy, as you are, into convincing myself otherwise but his ACTIONS were what I should have focused on. In the end, a tremendous amount of energy was wasted instead of being spent on helping myself heal and grow and protecting myself from the insane ups & downs of a selfish person. If he sincerely wants you in his life, he will do everything and anything you need. It will be obvious, you will know. If not, I agree....move on NOW and take care of SacredHeart.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

Sorry to be blunt, but none of your questions matter.

He's manipulating you. The fact that you are thinking the questions you pose and not thinking about how to regain your own life wholly independent of him is proof of the hold he has over you.

He has treated you badly. You have self-worth. You need to break it off completely from him. Let yourself grieve. Talk to a counselor a lot. When you come through it, you will wonder why you ever gave a s**t about him.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Hello all - I hope this message finds everyone well. I'm just writing again for some more support. I'm sure none of you will be surprised by this but I'm still with him. He pretty much had to move out of his home and has put some stuff in storage, some stuff at his friends and some stuff at my place and has been staying with me. Believe me, I KNOW this is wrong. It makes me sick to my stomach everyday knowing that I probably look like the biggest idiot in the world to him. He plans on renting a home closer to his daughers and wants to save money until then. Says that I'm more than welcome to move with him when he moves out. 

I'm still around because sadly I believe that maybe this was the last draw for him but I feel so strongly that it's not. Just the week before last he threw a pair of boxers in the garbage. I noticed because as all of you know I'm obviously checking stuff now more than ever. Anyway, I asked him why he didn't put his boxers in the laundry that day after he showered and he said they were in the garbage. When I asked why he said because one by one he's throwing all of his old boxers away that have holes in them. Now, I knowthat some of his old boxers do but later found out that the pair he threw away were a good pair. There was yellowish stains on them. Now, WHY ON EARTH would someone need to do that? Actually throw a pair of boxers away? It's just the craziest thing to me. 

I know I'm dumb to think that he would ever stop. I mean, I've taken him back so many times why should he? I just don't get like why he won't leave me alone. I talked to him and I told him that if he can't be faithful to just leave me be already. That if he loves me he would do that but he hasn't. 

Him staying at my place has caused much strain with my daughter and I. She doesn't even want to stay home because she hates him so much. She thinks I'm such a push over and an idiot and I know this. She has been staying over my moms and doesn't want to be there if he's there. 

I can't get the thoughts out of my head of what he did. The fact that I walked in on him and his ex and the fact that he made ME leave! Like after 3 years you would think that he would have made her leave. I just don't get it. He told me that he made me leave because he didn't want me going crazy on her because they didn't do anything inappropriate and she doesn't deserve that. Like why did he protect her? Why did he make me leave? Is he lying? Does that mean that he loves her? If this is the case, WHY doesn't he just be with her like that?! And leave me alone? 

I need help on getting over these thoughts. They are obsessive and I can't seem to forget. In the meantime I'm the girl that let him move some things back in and stay with me thinking that if I show him a different side of me and lay low and not ask questions that he'll change..I actually thought that me catching him would have made him stop but with the boxer incident I feel that he hasn't stopped.

What am I supposed to do? I'm seriously losing my mind. I feel like a worthless piece of crap. So abused and taken granted of. Why won't he just leave me be?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You and I have something in common, we saw our unfaithful spouses in the act which is a very traumatic experience. I had to swallow my manly pride and seek psychological therapy to help manage and neutralize the devastating effect those true life images had on my psyche. Please, if you haven't done so already, seek professional counseling ASAP. Healing yourself is essential in order to move on with your life.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> I'm sure none of you will be surprised by this but I'm still with him.


Nope. Too bad.



sacredheart said:


> Now, I knowthat some of his old boxers do but later found out that the pair he threw away were a good pair. There was yellowish stains on them. Now, WHY ON EARTH would someone need to do that? Actually throw a pair of boxers away? It's just the craziest thing to me.


Seriously? Could it be because you busted him with semen stains in his boxers once already so he's doing slightly more to cover his tracks (not that he needs to)?



sacredheart said:


> I just don't get like why he won't leave me alone. I talked to him and I told him that if he can't be faithful to just leave me be already. That if he loves me he would do that but he hasn't.


I think he's giving you what you want. He has cheated on you many times and you take him back. Obviously, you're fine with him cheating on you. Why should he stop? Because you ask him to while you're doing his laundry and letting him stay with you rent-free? Right.



sacredheart said:


> Him staying at my place has caused much strain with my daughter and I. She doesn't even want to stay home because she hates him so much. She thinks I'm such a push over and an idiot and I know this. She has been staying over my moms and doesn't want to be there if he's there.


When a mother chooses her no-count boyfriend over her daughter, it is very upsetting to the daughter. I've seen it happen. I'm sorry your daughter has to go through this.



sacredheart said:


> Is he lying? Does that mean that he loves her? If this is the case, WHY doesn't he just be with her like that?! And leave me alone?


:lol:
Maybe she won't let him stay with her rent-free. Maybe she won't let him cheat on her and take him back time and time again. Maybe you cook better than she does. It doesn't really matter why he doesn't leave you. He'll leave when he gets bored or finds a better offer.



sacredheart said:


> What am I supposed to do? I'm seriously losing my mind. I feel like a worthless piece of crap. So abused and taken granted of. Why won't he just leave me be?


He won't leave because he gets something he wants from you. He gets free room and board, his laundry done, and time to pick up girls on the side. Doesn't sound like too bad of a situation for any man. I honestly don't know what you get out of it, but I suppose you get something.

If you want advice (I'm assuming you're not just trolling), go back and re-read this thread.

Good luck.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

PHTlump - as far as the boxers, you're right. As a matter of fact, on all of it you're right.

I will say though in regards to the other woman she would do ANYTHING to have him to herself. She's been wanting him as hers for the longest time so if she's willing to be with him in that way then why doesn't he just leave to be with her? She was willing to leave her husband and now her fiance for him. So she is willing to be the other woman or accept him for who he is. Does that make sense?

He's not staying with me rent free. He has to contribute and he knows that. 

Also, he is able to stay at his best friends house. He doesn't "need" to stay with me. He chooses to stay with me. Do you see what I mean? It's not like he's just mooching off of me. He can stay elsewhere. So why do you think he won't leave me alone?

I'm sorry but it seems like so many of you are frustrated. I'm just an innocent victim who needs help. Lots of help. I'm sorry if these threads are so annoying.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Who told you that his 'ex' wants him so bad? That she would do anything to have him to herself.

If he told you this, then you might want to talk to 'her' about it. She probably has a totally different story.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It's not annoying it is tragic. You are a mother and you put a cheating using loser of a man before your own flesh and blood. Then you worry over him like he is your child. You are teaching your daughter how sorry a state woman are in when it comes to men. She will probably never have a normal relationship with a man because of her mother being a doormat slave to a few crumbs of hope. 

I am not really concerned with you but with your daughter that you abandoned. I am glad she has someone to go to to live safely. Her mother certainly does not love enough to give her a stable home. What must she think. You say he can go anywhere to stay yet you let him stay with you and displace your daughter. 

How could you do that? What are you thinking? He is staying with you because you ask him for nothing and give everything. The OW would make demands so he is hiding out temporarily in the SH hotel. The OW would not do his laundry, cook clean up after him so why go there he can see her at anytime. 

SH you really need a great deal of help. This man does not love you. He cares nothing for you. You make yourself convienent so why should he turn you down. It like getting free gas at the filling station you don't have to like the pump. 

I don't think you will heed anything anyone says. I promised myself that I would no longer read your horribly depressing thread. When I saw that you posted recently I hoped that you were better but I see you are the same. As for his offer for you to move with him it not love, he likes your servileness, what loser wouldn't. 

I pray to God for you and especially your daughter. If i find this depressing just imagine your daughter - it must be heart wrenching for her. May she find an adult that loves her and offers her a safe harbor to lay her head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> PHTlump - as far as the boxers, you're right. As a matter of fact, on all of it you're right.


I know. My wife finds it really annoying. 



sacredheart said:


> I will say though in regards to the other woman she would do ANYTHING to have him to herself. She's been wanting him as hers for the longest time so if she's willing to be with him in that way then why doesn't he just leave to be with her? She was willing to leave her husband and now her fiance for him. So she is willing to be the other woman or accept him for who he is. Does that make sense?


Why doesn't he leave to be with her? Because he doesn't HAVE to. Why choose one woman when you can choose two? That makes perfect sense to me.



sacredheart said:


> He's not staying with me rent free. He has to contribute and he knows that.


So he can sleep around and you'll tolerate it, but if the rent check's late you'll put your foot down? Call me skeptical.



sacredheart said:


> Also, he is able to stay at his best friends house. He doesn't "need" to stay with me. He chooses to stay with me. Do you see what I mean? It's not like he's just mooching off of me. He can stay elsewhere. So why do you think he won't leave me alone?


Fine. He doesn't need to stay with you. He could stay with his friend. Tell me, will his friend have sex with him? Will his friend do his laundry? I think he stays with you because it benefits him. He gets to have a relationship with you completely on his terms. Who wouldn't want that?

It blows my mind that you are willing to do anything this man asks, and then you're curious as to why he's taking advantage of you. The short answer is, because you're letting him. It's so simple.



sacredheart said:


> I'm sorry but it seems like so many of you are frustrated. I'm just an innocent victim who needs help. Lots of help. I'm sorry if these threads are so annoying.


Wrong again. You don't need help and you aren't a victim. You are a willing participant in a love/sex triangle. If you get mugged, you are a victim. If you get raped, you are a victim. If your boyfriend wants to have sex with you and other women at the same time, and you let him, you are not a victim.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> I know. My wife finds it really annoying.
> 
> 
> Why doesn't he leave to be with her? Because he doesn't HAVE to. Why choose one woman when you can choose two? That makes perfect sense to me.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

I know that she wants him because he broke up with her 4 me. My friend knows her and was around when he did it and she went crazy. Crying in front of everyone and didn't want 2 let him go. She wanted 2 leave her husband 4 him so I know she wants him. 

As far as my daughter goes she stays but isn't happy about it. She is well cared 4 and loved.

Why does this man want 2 have a baby with me? Buy a home? With me every second? Spends all of his time with me?

Do u see why I'm confused?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## newlife94 (Aug 11, 2011)

I agree....with PHTlump.

I am doing the same thing...or I was anyway. My WH thinks I will continue to let him do what he wants, have secret emails and talk to whomever he wants. I am not mad about having friends of the opposite sex, but I see a HUGE problem with him skyping with some girl he used to complain about me with (he says that is all, she was helping him through a hard time)...but we all know it was at the VERY least an EA. I know it was more, in my heart and gut.
NO more, I am not the door mat. I have stood my ground and I am happy to see this through. Whatever is on the other side is sooooo much better than the suspicious checking of emails, wondering if that money was taking someone else out to dinner or buying her a gift. OMG, don't do it to yourself. Take it from one door mat to another, just respect yourself. Simple. If this was your daughters situation, you would beg and plead with her to RUN. 
I thank those who pointed out to me that I was allowing him to use me.
Best of luck to you. You are the only one who stands in your way.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> I know that she wants him because he broke up with her 4 me. My friend knows her and was around when he did it and she went crazy. Crying in front of everyone and didn't want 2 let him go. She wanted 2 leave her husband 4 him so I know she wants him.
> 
> As far as my daughter goes she stays but isn't happy about it. She is well cared 4 and loved.
> 
> ...


I know this will sound harsh and in your state I don't want to make you feel the way he does, but you need to hear this.

Your confused because that is what you chose to be. You keep asking for advice. Well baby girl you have been getting it HOWEVER you chose NOT to listen. You ask these questions:
Why won't he leave me
Why does he wants a home with me
Why does he want a baby with me

What I think you want someone to say is because he loves you that much. Well I don't believe he does and you know he does not. WHAT TYPE OF MAN THAT LOVES A WOMAN WHO IS CARRYING HIS CHILD SAYS GO AHEAD AND KILL ANOTHER BABY PYSCHO!!! He picks fights with you to go home and sleep with another woman.
This man that you are consistently makeing excuse for does not love love you. He wants you because he KNOWS YOU LOVE HIM and that you will put up with his bull because of the what if's!! He feeds you these false hopes and dreams of things he knows you want to hear and you fall every damn time. STOP IT!! LOVE YOU MORE FOR GODS SAKE PLEASE LOVE YOU MORE!!!


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> It's not annoying it is tragic. You are a mother and you put a cheating using loser of a man before your own flesh and blood. Then you worry over him like he is your child. You are teaching your daughter how sorry a state woman are in when it comes to men. She will probably never have a normal relationship with a man because of her mother being a doormat slave to a few crumbs of hope.
> 
> *I am not really concerned with you but with your daughter that you abandoned. I am glad she has someone to go to to live safely. Her mother certainly does not love enough to give her a stable home. What must she think. You say he can go anywhere to stay yet you let him stay with you and displace your daughter. *
> 
> ...


:iagree: Amazing


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Great post Catherine. Today was my first exposure to this thread. I didn't read it earlier. 

I was rooting for you, SH. Now I'm just sad and angry. Although I've given up on looking for happy endings here, I still don't want to see tragic. And this is one of the saddest stories I've read on any of these forums I frequent. I'm glad your daughter looks like she's an adult, despite the pathetic role model her mother turned out to be. 

I pity you, but still wish you luck. Let us know how it works out. You know, all of the mistrust and constant spying you are going to be living through for the rest of your life. It'll be hard, but you'll still have...I don't know. I don't even care any more.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

MrK said:


> Great post Catherine. Today was my first exposure to this thread. I didn't read it earlier.
> 
> I was rooting for you, SH. Now I'm just sad and angry. Although I've given up on looking for happy endings here, I still don't want to see tragic. And this is one of the saddest stories I've read on any of these forums I frequent. I'm glad your daughter looks like she's an adult, despite the pathetic role model her mother turned out to be.
> 
> I pity you, but still wish you luck.  Let us know how it works out. You know, all of the mistrust and constant spying you are going to be living through for the rest of your life. It'll be hard, but you'll still have...I don't know. I don't even care any more.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

So now no one is rooting 4 me anymore? I feel horrible, guilty, panic and anxiety attack. I NEED help! I don't know what 2 do. How 2 approach it. I'm in the biggest rut of my entire life. I certainly don't feel good about myself. I thought that love would conquer. That he'd maybe open his eyes and change. Its all very sad. I just don't know how to gather the strength. I've been praying and praying. On my knees and in tears at times. I've asked God to do for me what I can't do for myself and nothing. I need strength. Once again, need help. I didn't come here to be called a pathetic role model on top of all of the other horrible feelings I'm dealing with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Sorry. I didn't really want to be so harsh. But you really let me down. The most important line in my otherwise horrible thread had to do with you mistrusting him your whole life. You're already checking his underwear, for gods sake. Is that how you want to live the rest of your life?

And I beg to differ, but I don't think you really are looking for advice. You've gotten 7 pages of advice going back 3 months. It all says the same thing and you've ignored it ALL. You are not going to get ANYONE to say what you evidently want to hear. What do you want from us? 

Show your daughter what a strong woman looks like and leave this creep. Please! Do you know how many people want to reach out and shake some sense into you?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

God helps those that help themselves. Duh


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> So now no one is rooting 4 me anymore? I feel horrible, guilty, panic and anxiety attack. I NEED help! I don't know what 2 do. How 2 approach it. I'm in the biggest rut of my entire life. I certainly don't feel good about myself. I thought that love would conquer. That he'd maybe open his eyes and change. Its all very sad. I just don't know how to gather the strength. I've been praying and praying. On my knees and in tears at times. I've asked God to do for me what I can't do for myself and nothing. I need strength. Once again, need help. I didn't come here to be called a pathetic role model on top of all of the other horrible feelings I'm dealing with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell me.. Did you start your new relationship while he was still in the old one.. I mean.. Was there an overlap?
Did this relationship start as an affair?


Listen.. Listen hard. If.. YOU want him back YOU have to do some things. 


You need to stop supporting him in any way. FOR LOVE 
You need to remove yourself from his life. FOR LOVE
You need to focus on YOU and your daughter. FOR LOVE
You need to Remove ALL emotional support to him.

YOU do this by implementing Plan B. 


He will then be_ forced to make a choice. _


He needs to be forced to make a choice.. Not tommorrow. Not in three weeks. NOW


You will need ALOT of strength for this. If you are going to pray . Pray for the strength to stand up and fight. 

You need to be strong for your child

*Re-READ the advice on the thread.* If you have ANY CHANCE at all you must follow it. Keep your remaining love and hold it AWAY FROM HIM and his destructive and disrespectful behavior.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> So now no one is rooting 4 me anymore? I feel horrible, guilty, panic and anxiety attack. I NEED help! I don't know what 2 do. How 2 approach it. I'm in the biggest rut of my entire life. I certainly don't feel good about myself. I thought that love would conquer. That he'd maybe open his eyes and change. Its all very sad. I just don't know how to gather the strength. I've been praying and praying. On my knees and in tears at times. I've asked God to do for me what I can't do for myself and nothing. I need strength. Once again, need help. I didn't come here to be called a pathetic role model on top of all of the other horrible feelings I'm dealing with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But you have been given excellent advice and consistent support but you will not consider it. What would you like to hear? What will make you feel better? 

You are a warm and caring mother, you put the needs of the child you brought into the world where they should be. You give your daughter your unconditional love which is what any loving parent would do. 

You have the upmost respect your yourself and recognize your value as a woman. your choices support your self-worth, your psychological well being and that of your daughter. 

You are not the type of woman who worships a man and debases your self to beg for non existent signs of love. You are also not the type of woman to be used by a man. 

You are fearless and are not concerned with losing a man because you are sure you can attract a man suitable for you.

These are all untrue but if it makes you feel better than I am glad for you.

I cannot bear to let you off the hook for the neglect of your daughter. in my opinion your reaction is selfish. You did not express concern that your daughter may have suffered emotional damage.

You turned it around and made it out to be about you. Your poor daughter cannot even get her mother to consider than what she has done is against her child's interest. As I said, I hope your mother is giving her lots of love.

A useless dirtbag of a man who treats her like garbage means more to her mother than her precious daughter. If the dirtbag man had an once of male honor he would not dream of forcing a child out of her own home. 

This is not only about you. You are getting all the support you deserve. Unfortunately, your child is not enjoying the same. 

Sorry to be blunt-this is what i see and i may be wrong.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

God works though people. He does not use magic to poof you like a fairy godmother.

He is answering your prayers but you will not accept his answers. He will not abandon you, so keep praying.


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## Tap1214 (Aug 14, 2011)

Truth is, his actions have shown you over and over again that he doesn't love you and he's only using you!! He's cheater, and a liar and I'm going to say it again ....He doesn't love you!! Hard to swallow and I know it hurts, but it's the TRUTH!! Please move on with your life and find someone who loves you and treats you like a queen.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Tap1214 said:


> Truth is, his actions have shown you over and over again that he doesn't love you and he's only using you!! He's cheater, and a liar and I'm going to say it again ....He doesn't love you!! Hard to swallow and I know it hurts, but it's the TRUTH!! Please move on with your life and find someone who loves you and treats you like a queen.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

He was dating her after he divorced his wife. He stopped dating her to be with me. Him and I lived together and have been together for 3 years. Like I said, he's spent every minute with me, I know and am part of his family. he's taken me to visit and have weekends with them always. He was a good friend and role model to my daughter. Always paid bills, etc.When I found out he cheated emailed that woman back in May I moved out because my assumption of his cheating was SOMEWHAT proved. I moved out and a week later found out I was pregnant. Decided to possibly work on things for baby. He was still living in the home that WE ALL lived in. We got into one huge fight when I found out I was pregnant because I lost it on him. He kept calmly telling me to calm down for the babies sake. I didn't and kept pushing so he lost it on me because I had a miscarriage with our child before. Anyway, a week after I had our miscarriage is when we got into a huge argument and found him there with her. He cried and begged and was so sorry. She means nothing, never touched her, etc. So I wanted to explain so you guys understood a little more of our history. Its not like he wasn't ever around. He spent every second he had with me. Never even went out with friends. If he didn't love and was just using me wouldn't he be worse? Never around, etc.? I'm just wondering if he does love me but just has a problem. Like sex addiction, etc. Its just hard to believe that after all we've been through, all of the time we shared an share together is cause there's no love at all and because he's only using me? Do you see where I'm oming from?

Also, my daughter is home. She does not only stay with my mom. I've talked to her about being a poor role model and that I'm trying to get strong. She's 17 and I can tell her theses things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> He was dating her after he divorced his wife. He stopped dating her to be with me. Him and I lived together and have been together for 3 years. Like I said, he's spent every minute with me, I know and am part of his family. he's taken me to visit and have weekends with them always. He was a good friend and role model to my daughter. Always paid bills, etc.When I found out he cheated emailed that woman back in May I moved out because my assumption of his cheating was SOMEWHAT proved. I moved out and a week later found out I was pregnant. Decided to possibly work on things for baby. He was still living in the home that WE ALL lived in. We got into one huge fight when I found out I was pregnant because I lost it on him. He kept calmly telling me to calm down for the babies sake. I didn't and kept pushing so he lost it on me because I had a miscarriage with our child before. Anyway, a week after I had our miscarriage is when we got into a huge argument and found him there with her. He cried and begged and was so sorry. She means nothing, never touched her, etc. So I wanted to explain so you guys understood a little more of our history. Its not like he wasn't ever around. He spent every second he had with me. Never even went out with friends. If he didn't love and was just using me wouldn't he be worse? Never around, etc.? I'm just wondering if he does love me but just has a problem. Like sex addiction, etc. Its just hard to believe that after all we've been through, all of the time we shared an share together is cause there's no love at all and because he's only using me? Do you see where I'm oming from?
> 
> Also, my daughter is home. She does not only stay with my mom. I've talked to her about being a poor role model and that I'm trying to get strong. She's 17 and I can tell her theses things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sacred heart, you will do what you want, you don't need approval from strangers on a message board. He must be at a good part on his cycle of abuse, go enjoy your relationship!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

In John Steinbeck's "East of Eden" (great book, btw), there is a Chinese servant. His name is Lee.

His master asks Lee, "Lee, I need your advice"

Lee answers, "Master Adam, if what you seek is my agreement, you have it right now. Go with my blessing and do as you have decided. If, however, you want my advice, we are going to have a conversation and it may take awhile"

Good luck sacredheart.

You will likely need it.


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## bs193 (Jan 2, 2011)

chapparal said:


> god helps those that help themselves. Duh


amen!


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'm trying to get stronger.

He's so very jealous too. Like he hates when men approach or talk to me. This makes no sense to me. Like why be so overprotective and jealous if you're cheating? Does that make any sense to you?

He's always been that way. 

As far as my daughter goes, her and I had a long conversation. We're going to start going to church, spend more time, etc. 

I'm going to remove him from the situation as much as possible but I feel like I need to do this in baby steps. I'm afraid to lose him. I've never had a relationship like ours. When he's good he's sooo good. Treats me like a princess. It's just these temptations and cheating. It's all so sad because there is so much potential to be a good man.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Well, his jealously certainly isn't because of his love for you. Haven't you ever heard the saying, "he doesn't want you but he doesn't want anyone else to have you either?" That is what is going on this case. Why can you not respect yourself? You can sit there and focus on his "good qualities" all day long, but the fact remains he continues to cheat on you. It's obvious he isn't going to change so you either live in an open relationship or you get out. The decision is yours.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sacredheart said:


> He's so very jealous too. Like he hates when men approach or talk to me. This makes no sense to me. Like why be so overprotective and jealous if you're cheating? Does that make any sense to you?


Of course. You are exclusively his but he's not exclusively yours. It's simple.



sacredheart said:


> As far as my daughter goes, her and I had a long conversation. We're going to start going to church, spend more time, etc.


That's better than nothing. Getting rid of the cheater and moving your daughter into your house full-time would be best, but baby steps I guess.



sacredheart said:


> I'm going to remove him from the situation as much as possible but I feel like I need to do this in baby steps. I'm afraid to lose him. I've never had a relationship like ours. When he's good he's sooo good. Treats me like a princess. It's just these temptations and cheating. It's all so sad because there is so much potential to be a good man.


Call me skeptical again. He cheats on you and you agonize over a plan to eventually cut back on the time you spend with him? For your own mental well being, I think you either need to get him out of your life today, or admit to yourself that you are content to be one woman among several that he sleeps with. Some women can do that. Watch the shows Big Love or Sister Wives to see how other women can happily share a man.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Carol - what do you mean he doesn't want me? Then why is he with me? It seems that he wants me as well as others. I get that. But to say that he doesn't want me..don't get that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You have chosen d!ck over your daughter. 
That in and of itself is very disturbing and sad.
You have chosen to have a man living with you over having your daughter in your home full-time. 
There is something very wrong with that, IMO. 

This man does not love you. He does not care about you. He uses you and you allow it. "Love" isn't the way he is acting towards you. He doesn't "want" you. He finds you convenient, so he takes and takes from you because you keep serving it up for him on a silver platter and expecting nothing in return. He knows that and uses it to his full advantage. You have no boundaries. He knows that. You even caught him with the OW together and he told YOU to leave. That speaks volumes. And you invited him to live with you after that. 

He has no respect for you because you don't respect yourself. 



sacredheart said:


> He was dating her after he divorced his wife. He stopped dating her to be with me.


Did he cheat on her with you?


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

In response to your question SH, read JB's response above. It's spot on. You need to read that response over and over until it hopefully sinks in. Please!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Damn, I just read thus whole ugly thread.
What an utter tragedy.

I`m going to refrain from telling what I think in the manner that I almost did as it would be very harsh.

Suffice to say you need some serious help.
You need to grow a spine.

I have been a faithful married man for the past 12 years.

Before my marriage I was a player, I cheated, been cheated on and everything in between so maybe I can give you some perspective on what he`s thinking and why he`s doing what he`s doing.

However, in all my years I never sunk as low or was ever as morally bereft of any and all empathy as your man is.

You ask why he wants you and why he keeps trying to keep you if he wants all these other women.
The answer is simple.
"Because he can".

He has a nice tidy little piece of ass sitting at home doing his laundry, cooking his meals, and gushing over what a wonderful man "he could be..maybe if he would only CHANGE".

ONS and affairs aren`t a consistent supply of free ass so having you keeps him supplied through the dry spells.
He`ll always stick around when there is no OW in the picture because you`re his back-up

You ask why he gets jealous over men giving you attention if he does`t care about you.

"Those who cannot be trusted do not trust".

He gets jealous over male attention towards you because he only has himself as a standard when seeing this attention from other men towards you.
He knows that when a woman gives him the same flirtatious attention he is incapable of refusing her advances and the situation ends up with him having sex or pursuing the woman.

He simply figures you will have the same reaction as he does and sleep with the flirtatious man.
This could lead to him losing control over his free doormat piece of ass.

He does`t want that because finding another woman who would take the IMMENSE amount of abuse, disrespect and disregard that you do is a nearly impossible feat.

You put him above your own daughter.
But many here are wrong when they say you are a terrible role model.
Your daughter has the perfect example of the woman she doesn`t want to be in you and apparently she`s smart enough to see it.
She deserves some kudos for telling you like it is.

You truly are one of a kind, he won`t find another with such a complete lack of self worth and self esteem willing to deal with any evil horrendous crap he feels like spewing your way whenever he wants.

YOU KNOW HE'S A LYING DISRESPECTFUL HURTFUL CHEATING BASTARD…and yet you still stay with him.

You my dear are the Holy Grail to him and his ilk.
In my serious player years I would have dropped to me knees and thanked god for sending you to me if I had ever happened upon a woman like you.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Jellybeans;403[/B said:


> 243]*You have chosen d!ck over your daughter.
> That in and of itself is very disturbing and sad.
> You have chosen to have a man living with you over having your daughter in your home full-time.
> There is something very wrong with that, IMO. *


That's the part of all of this that actually just makes me angry reading this thread. 


The guy is a loser. No matter what you do, no matter how you do it, he'll never be anything but a user and a loser.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Jellybeans - I'm not sure if he was dating both of us? According to him and my friend who was around, he left her to be with me. She took it really hard. He also told me that he hurt someone very badly to be with me. I know now this was her. 

Tacoma - thank you for sharing your insight. It does help to see how a "cheater" and "player" thinks. In response to your "In my serious player years I would have dropped to me knees and thanked god for sending you to me if I had ever happened upon a woman like you." Why do you say this? Are you saying because I'm a catch and he should be greatful? So now you're faithful and married? So it is possible for a man to change.

So I guess now I'm wondering how to break it off with him completely? What is the best way to do this without him getting outraged?

Also, this is all so hard to hear. That he doesn't love me. I'm not trying to be conceited but I'm a very attractive woman who has a great job, who is smart and kind and loving and I was brought up to take care of my family. Why would he jeopardize all of this? My self esteem is so shot obviously because of all that I've been through. I just don't even know who I am anymore.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> Jellybeans - I'm not sure if he was dating both of us? According to him and my friend who was around, he left her to be with me.


Do you not know because you never asked or do you not know because you didn't care enough cause you had him sometimes (part-time lover) and that was good enough for you?



sacredheart said:


> In response to your "In my serious player years I would have dropped to me knees and thanked god for sending you to me if I had ever happened upon a woman like you." Why do you say this? Are you saying because I'm a catch and he should be greatful?


No. He's saying it because as a player, someone like you would allow them to have a steady piece of a$$ (you) while they could run around with all the women he wanted and treat you however he wanted with zero consequences or a need to accountable, because you don't require it. In a way, you are his side piece with benefits (room and board)...and free sex. He would never have to had made a choice because you tolerate everything he does and he doesn't have to feel bad about it. You make it easy for him.

It's not a compliment.



sacredheart said:


> So I guess now I'm wondering how to break it off with him completely? What is the best way to do this without him getting outraged?


Who cares if he's outraged? THe person who should be outraged is you by his poor treatment of you and offering you crumbs and you lapping it up at every turn. Get angry! Tell him to F off. Seriously. Tell him "I've been thinking a lot and you need to GTFO of my house. I don't want to be with you anymore. I deserve to be treated with respect and shown love and be treated well by a man who is faithful to me and doesn't use me. Get out of my house today."



sacredheart said:


> I'm not trying to be conceited but I'm a very attractive woman who has a great job, who is smart and kind and loving and I was brought up to take care of my family. Why *would he jeopardize all of this?*


Because he doesn't respect you. And he doesn't love you. You are his "safe bet." Stop being that.

Read your posts. You don't like the way he makes you feel. You don't trust him at all. You're stuck in this drama.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

I notice you seem to skim over or dismiss the parts people post about your daughter or you seldom acknowledge them. Forget about him and concentrate on your daughter. Your mind is focused on him and should be on your daughter. You need to get your priorities straight my dear.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Jellybeans - I didn't ask. I was told by him and my best friend that he was dating her and left her for me. He told me when we first started dating that he cleaned his plate for me and that he wanted me to do the same. 

He doesn't respect and love me and that's what I don't understand. How could he not? You know what I mean?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> Tacoma - thank you for sharing your insight. It does help to see how a "cheater" and "player" thinks. In response to your "In my serious player years I would have dropped to me knees and thanked god for sending you to me if I had ever happened upon a woman like you." Why do you say this? Are you saying because I'm a catch and he should be greatful? So now you're faithful and married? So it is possible for a man to change.


Yes, it is possible for a man to change but it is not possible to change a man.
He has to have an epiphany, a moment in his life where he sees what he REALLY is and be disgusted by it.
I don`t know if the man you describe here is capable of such a thing.

I say I would have "thanked god for finding you" in my player years because you would have been the perfect prize to an ******* like me.
You would want to believe my lies, you would want to believe you could change me, you would ignore my indiscretions and leave me free to have whatever affair I happened to be involved in.



> So I guess now I'm wondering how to break it off with him completely? What is the best way to do this without him getting outraged?


Why do you care if he`s outraged?
YOU should be outraged.
Kick him out and surround yourself with as much support as you can muster.
Go NC and use a restraining order if you need to.
Cut him out of your life like a cancer because that is what he is.
You are going to have trouble mustering the strength needed to do this.



> Also, this is all so hard to hear. That he doesn't love me.


If marriage has taught me anything it`s that LOVE truly is the least of it.
Respect, and trust are the other cornerstones of a lasting relationship.
You have neither in him.

This is where I`m going to take some crap I think but he may very well love you. Losing you may very well hurt him horribly.
His problem is he does`t respect you, the love he feels isn`t healthy, it isn`t secure, it isn`t GOOD.
He will never love you more than he loves himself and that is why you have to get rid of him.
I`d die for my wife right now this second without a moments hesitation.
The sacrifices I have made for my wife are legion and I feel as if every one of them was a deal for me because they have helped her in so many ways to feel safe and secure and wanted.
Those sacrifices have paved our way into a strong loving relationship as have hers.
Your man can`t even keep from putting his penis in other women to help you feel secure and loved by him.



> I'm not trying to be conceited but I'm a very attractive woman who has a great job, who is smart and kind and loving and I was brought up to take care of my family. Why would he jeopardize all of this? My self esteem is so shot obviously because of all that I've been through. I just don't even know who I am anymore.


Then why do you feel you NEED this asshat so badly?
Dump him, go NC and accept a couple of those flirtatious advances men give you.
You`ll shortly see that you can be in a happy situation without him.
In fact the only way you`ll ever find happiness is without him.

He`s not jeopardizing anything. He ****s around and you let him stay.
What has he jeopardized?
He KNOWS he owns you.
He KNOWS you haven`t the strength to dump his ass.
He KNOWS you`ll be there no matter what.
Hell, you walked in on him during a sexual interlude with his ex and you STILL let him have control sending you home, staying with him, accepting his bull****.

He jeopardizes nothing.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> You have chosen d!ck over your daughter.
> That in and of itself is very disturbing and sad.
> You have chosen to have a man living with you over having your daughter in your home full-time.
> There is something very wrong with that, IMO.
> ...


***** And the winner is JB for elegance, clarity and plain ole s**t kicking common sense communication. *******

nuf said
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Amen Catherine!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> He doesn't respect and love me and that's what I don't understand. How could he not?


Because YOU don't respect yourself.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> ***** And the winner is JB for elegance, clarity and plain ole s**t kicking common sense communication. *******
> 
> nuf said
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL! I love that my post got marked for "elegance" when my first setnence starts with D!CK in it. Hehehe.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Tacoma - as far as the epiphany goes, according to him when I caught him he was soooo done being a jerk face. He said that he'll never forget the look on my face and how much he hurt me and that he never wanted to hurt the woman he loves that way. That I'm so good to him and his daughters and I love so much. That I'm so beautiful and he was going to be a different person. I thought maybe that was his epiphany there. I mean, what will it take for an epiphany?

I guess I'm starting to believe that he's a narcisisst. 

It's so sweet to hear you saying these things about your wife. What did it take for you to reach that epiphany? Was it out of nowhere? Just curious. 

You're right, he's not jeopardizing because I accept. Maybe when I ditch him from my life he'll change. Or maybe he'll never change.

I just know that he's capable. He was faithful to his wife. I even asked her if she ever had questions about his faithfulness and she said no. She cheated on him. But then again I wonder. If she was cheating she probably didn't care to pay attention. Who knows. He told me when we first started dating that he was a cheater in the past and stopped cheating when he got married. That karma came to bite him in the butt and she cheated on him.

Sometimes I wonder if the hurt from his ex-wife has taken him over to the dark side and he just doesn't care?

Also, everyone here keeps talking about self respect and this is why he doesn't respect me. What do I need to do in order to get respect? If I change in that sense and get more confident, etc. will that change him? Our situation?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> Tacoma - as far as the epiphany goes, according to him when I caught him he was soooo done being a jerk face.


Talk is cheap. Actions, baby. And he has shown you over and over again who he is. You just choose not to believe him. 



sacredheart said:


> I mean, what will it take for an epiphany?


Well, the status quo hasn't worked. So do something different. Dump him. Tell him to GTFO of your house/life today. And that may not even get him to "see" anything. He has to "want" to change. But you've already seen that you grasping at straws, any straws while he purposely flicks you off isn't working. So do something different: blank him from your life and start respecting yourself enough to know you deserve more than being treated by like dirt.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> Carol - what do you mean he doesn't want me? Then why is he with me? It seems that he wants me as well as others. I get that. But to say that he doesn't want me..don't get that.


:wtf::nono::bsflag::cussing:

Seriously! He wants you? Because what he crys, begs and tells you he wants you?! Oh so he wants you because he sleeps with other women and throw you out the house. Oh ok I know, he showed you he wanted you when he called you a physco and said go ahead a lose another baby. LISTEN UP, if this man LOVED YOU and WANTED YOU he would not be dragging you through hell and back. He would not be taking you through all this. And you say you don't get it.....hmmm. I really don't think you want to get it actually. This man is not good for you but if you still want him then you need to figure out do you want him the way he is or a better man for all involved. If you want him to be better than you need to listen to the advice given here if you want him as is the stop complaining and take him as is.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

That's the thing though too Jellybeans. He has been so amazing to me as well. I'm talking drawing bubble baths, foot rubs and massages, making me surprise dinners, etc. etc. So it's hard. Very hard to let go of the good and potential. I've been with him 3 years.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Ok.....Stay with him and enjoy the good times that you will share. 

Just make sure to get an STD test every couple of months to make sure he isn't giving you any diseases that his other girlfriends may carry. 

Also, make arrangements for your daughter to live elsewhere, so she is comfortable with her living environment.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

She just skims over the parts about her daughter SoccerFan, you are wasting your breath. I don't even think her relationship with her daughter is a concern at this point. Sad, very sad.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Sexually frustrated, if I want him to be better than listen to the advice here? All I've been told was to ditch him. How does that make him better for me? Ya know? 

Also, I really like all of your smileys. I'm giggling.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

Seems as if you just want to live your life for the good moments the he gives you when he feels like it to keep you drawn in. I mean really you say he said he never wants to see that hurt in your face, well he saw it that night and instead of trying to plead his case or talk to you about it he chose to PUT YOU OUT THE DAMN HOUSE AND LET HER STAY!!!! He is not a good man just for the moments he gives you. He knows thats what you need to keep you baited in.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

You guys really need to watch what you say about me and my daughter. Those are all assumptions. I very much love my daughter and I'm trying to get to a better place. I didn't come to this forum to get talked down upon or to get bashed. I'm taking care of the situation with my daughter. 

What else do you expect me to say about her? This site is for help with infidelity and that's what I've been talking about!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> That's the thing though too Jellybeans. He has been so amazing to me as well. I'm talking drawing bubble baths, foot rubs and massages, making me surprise dinners, etc. etc. So it's hard. Very hard to let go of the good and potential. I've been with him 3 years.


Just like an abuser, they have a very charming part of their personality. But if you are basing the "amazingness" of your relationship on the fact he draws you bubble baths, gives you a massage and make a dinner for you vs. the reality that he 
f-cks around on you, tells you to leave when you find him with the OW, doesn't contribute financially to your household, doesn't show you respect, and makes no efforts to correct behaviors that are concerning to you, then you are living in 
la-la-land. For real. 

And let's not forget you don't trust him. At all. And with good reason. 



sacredheart said:


> All I've been told was to ditch him. How does that make him better for me? Ya know?


It doesn't make him better FOR you. It makes YOU better FOR you. You CANNOT change him or anyone else. He is who he is. Start believing that. 

The alternative to not ditching him is staying in the same unhealthy dynamic you have with him. It's kinda like the whole "He hits me because he loves me" mentality you've got going here.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> Sexually frustrated, if I want him to be better than listen to the advice here? All I've been told was to ditch him. How does that make him better for me? Ya know?
> 
> Also, I really like all of your smileys. I'm giggling.


What they are saying is to get more self respect. To find and know your worth and allow that the to lead you. NOT YOUR HEART OR FEELINGS for this dude because acting like this he is not a man. There advice is to NOT allow him to use you, cheat over and over and OVER again and take him back. Action speaks louder than words. Well that goes for you as well Sacredheart. You say you want better. That you deserve better. That you want things to change but YOUR actions says to him that it is just talk and that you are willing to do no more about it. You moved out. Ok now what. Just to still talk ,text and let him move in with you. And you think things are going to change Your actions are dictate what he does. IT'S YOUR CHOICE WHAT YOU ACCEPT and you are accepting this treatment of you.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm understanding all of this. Once again, just praying for the strength. I just wish I would have never gotten pregnant and fell into the trap again. The timing was so horrible. 

I'm still trying to understand why he made me leave that day? My friends seem to think it was because he needed time to conjure up a story and that he probably figured I was done with him anyway. I know that they both left immediately after. He went to work. But still..don't get it.

All of you are right though. There is no trust. I never will. He mentioned that he's willing to go to counseling but I think that is pointless. I was told that narcissist don't change. EVER. It's not possible.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> Tacoma - as far as the epiphany goes, according to him when I caught him he was soooo done being a jerk face. He said that he'll never forget the look on my face and how much he hurt me and that he never wanted to hurt the woman he loves that way. That I'm so good to him and his daughters and I love so much. That I'm so beautiful and he was going to be a different person. I thought maybe that was his epiphany there. I mean, what will it take for an epiphany?


If I had a dollar for every woman I conned with the above lines I`d be retired by now.
I said the same exact things every time I got caught and it usually worked, for awhile at least.




> It's so sweet to hear you saying these things about your wife. What did it take for you to reach that epiphany? Was it out of nowhere? Just curious.


My epiphany came out of nowhere and it came in a 5 minute span alone in a dimly lit post-natal room alone with my daughter who was not yet 10 minutes old.
I could write a thesis on those 5 minutes but I won`t do that here.
Let me simply say that those 5 minutes were`t really what changed me, they were the thing that gave me the strength to change and the knowledge that "fixing myself" was the only way I would ever have what I now knew I wanted.
Honestly I still have some demons I fight over it.
I realized I had never truly been happy in a relationship before and right then at that moment I had all the pieces in my hands to forge that elusive happiness if only I could stop sabotaging myself.



> You're right, he's not jeopardizing because I accept. Maybe when I ditch him from my life he'll change. Or maybe he'll never change.


Either way it`s not your concern now.
You need to work on yourself before you can really be ready for an equal respectful relationship.



> I just know that he's capable. He was faithful to his wife. I even asked her if she ever had questions about his faithfulness and she said no. She cheated on him. But then again I wonder. If she was cheating she probably didn't care to pay attention. Who knows. He told me when we first started dating that he was a cheater in the past and stopped cheating when he got married. That karma came to bite him in the butt and she cheated on him.


There are at least a dozen women from my past who would be shocked and in disbelief if today I told them I had cheated on them when we were together.
I was very good at it, I was rarely caught.
I took a sick pride in it.



> Also, everyone here keeps talking about self respect and this is why he doesn't respect me. What do I need to do in order to get respect? If I change in that sense and get more confident, etc. will that change him? Our situation?


This is the very hard part.
You will get no respect from him until you show him his behavior is unacceptable.
Considering the extent of his behavior the only way to show him is to leave him.
Catch 22 .

It does`t really matter though because even if you can have a good relationship with this man (Which I don`t believe you can) you would both have to be different people and you would need to start in a fresh new relationship once you were both secure in the people you`ve become and the changes you`ve made.

To pull all that off, the odds are extraordinary.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Yes, we would definitely have to start fresh and I need some major therapy. The trust is diminished and I'm so living in la la land. 

Yesterday I asked him to talk to my daughter and make amends with her and he said that he will but I should have never told her in the first place. I probably shouldn't have but I needed someone to talk to. Of course he said that he'll do it on his time. Not when I expect him to. That he doesn't even know where to start. I told him that she's bitter and resentful and she deserves an apology from him to. He got upset because he said I'm demanding him to do this. I said of course I'm demanding it. We didn't ask for any of the dirt that you put on me or us. That in the 3 years we've been together that she got attached to him. That IF he was going to be in my life that he needed to do this. 

He can be so proud and stubborn as well. I just need to get angry again and ditch this s.o.b.!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

sacredheart said:


> Yes, we would definitely have to start fresh and I need some major therapy.


I wouldn`t say you need major therapy or even any therapy.
I`m betting money if you could just get him out of your life, go NC, start having some fun for yourself, immerse yourself in family and friends, take up a couple of those offers from men and have a couple of dates you`d see your life could be sooo much better.
You`d sooner rather than later wonder why you ever tortured yourself over this loser to begin with.
You need to get him gone if for no other reason than to see clearly.

Maybe after you are able to get some perspective, some distance from this tragic relationship you will realize that you do indeed need some therapy and then you should get it.
Maybe being away from him and living your life on your terms with a good level of self respect you`ll realize that getting rid of him was all the therapy you needed.

This....


> ...I'm a very attractive woman who has a great job, who is smart and kind and loving and I was brought up to take care of my family...


This is gold to a real man who wants an equal respectful relationship.
These are values that a good man will pursue relentlessly.
Why are you wasting this on this moron?




> Yesterday I asked him to talk to my daughter and make amends with her and he said that he will but I should have never told her in the first place.


How do you think that will go over?
I can`t say I`d be any too eager to speak rationally with an asshat that has done the things to my mother that your man has done.
That could be ugly.



> He can be so proud and stubborn as well. I just need to get angry again and ditch this s.o.b.!


No you don`t, you just need to ditch him and it would be best done without anger.
It would be best done in a cold, uncaring, and calculating manner.
It should be done without emotion and as if you didn`t give a ****.

Gather your strength sacredheart, do what is eventually going to happen anyway.
This way it`s on your terms, under your control.

That would be a giant leap towards regaining that self-respect.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Tacoma - once again it's so nice to get a former cheaters perspective on all of this. 

I do appreciate everyones input on here..so very much! It may not sound like it but you are helping me to be stronger. How soon it may happen, not sure. As crazy as this may sound, I'm just waiting on him to do something to really upest me again so I can get back to angry mode. But then again, get nervous and this will sound so high school. I don't want him to leave me first. I feel like I need to break it off first. There's a pride thing kicking in right now. 

Of course he came home yesterday with the most beautiful arrangement of flowers. Something he hasn't done in quite some time. Totally melted like the sucker that I am. 

Please keep giving me tough love here. I need it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> LOL! I love that my post got marked for "elegance" when my first setnence starts with D!CK in it. Hehehe.


That's just it! I don't think there are many forms in nature that are so complete and so finished that, to change anything by as little as a mm, would upset its harmony. Yes elegance.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

First, I want to apologize for the snarky tone I took in answering this question a couple of days ago. I sometimes lose sight that it's real people we are dealing with, not just academic questions. 

Have you thought about getting counseling for co-dependency? I say that with all due respect. But from what I've read you are entirely too dependent on this guy for your life in general. It seems to me that the best relationships come from people who are happy with themselves first. Otherwise it's going to always be too much "looking over your shoulder" and "evening the score" type of stuff to ever be happy. 

I do stick to my previous statement that you make sure that your daughter is in an environment that she is comfortable with. If she isn't getting along with your boyfriend and you are bound and determined to keep this guy around you have to make sure she is in a stable environment. Being a teenager is tough enough without additional drama. 

Good luck to you.


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## sacredheart (Sep 14, 2010)

Good moring - Just coming here for a bit more support. I'm in a bad spot today. Woke up in panic and anxiety and am pretty much hysterical in tears. Even took the day off of work because I need a moment as reality is really starting to sink in. 

I keep having these horrible feelings about myself. My self esteem is so shot. No confidence at all. Like I said, I'm an attractive woman with alot going for herself and I'm so good to him. So many people tell me how beautiful, smart, fun and kind I am and how I can have any man that I want, etc. 

All of this makes me feel so horrible because if I am all of these things then WHY is this man so horrible to me? You would think he would appreciate what he had but he doesn't. It makes me feel that I'm not any of the above. I'm sure all of you understand.

The girls that he has cheated with are not hideous. I hear from so many people they are nothing compared to me. So of course that makes me feel even worse as well. Like really?

I hate that SO many woman are after him. Like ladies go gaga for him. I guess they don't know who he really is though.

All of this has just got me diminished to feeling nothing. 

Then I start thinking the what if's. What if he changes for another woman? Why wasn't I good enough? She's going to get the good parts of him that I love and maybe more. 

Start questioning myself and saying maybe I'm the rebound chick who gets the dark side of him because he was so hurt from his wife and he's on to another woman. I got the horrible man and he'll learn from losing me and then be good to her.

Does any of this make sense?

Is he capable of changing or is it most likely that these girls will get a jerk as well?

I just need support and help to remind myself that it's not me..etc. Just sharing my thoughts and where I'm at today.

Any support and encouraging words are so appreciated.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

SH, what you are saying makes sense, I too am botherered that other guys are getting the best parts of my W right now, the parts I've been craving for so long. But reading a comment from pit-of-my-stomach earlier, I realize I too need to stop putting my effort into trying to get my spouse to come around. It's over, and I can now face that. It's time to put my effort into what I need, and their is no shame or guilt in that, it is the very best thing I can do, as for you too.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

All of your thoughts ar enormal after being on the receiving end of infidelity.

Ask yourself this: Do you feel better in a relationship with him or without him? 

Does he enhance your life? Bring you more joy than pain?

Or are you just grasping at straws of what "could be" if he were "different?" Do you romanticize him? Not the real him, but wat you want him to be? Do you just fear being "lonely?" 

He has showed you who he is over and over again. You need to start believing it. 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. 

You give the same, you will get the same. 

He is "the old story." Expect more of the same from him as long as you are with him.


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## lht285 (Aug 25, 2011)

Wow, just read through this entire thread. You obviously don't love yourself. You look for personal edification through others.

You need to get this guy out of your life and step back from any relationships other than with your daughter. That being said, your 17 year old daughter is NOT an adult, and you should not discuss these issues with her. If you need to discuss things with anyone it should be an individual counselor. 

You need to take some time to find yourself, because you are LOST at the moment. I would suggest you take a long break from relationships with anyone because they will suck any self growth right out of you. 

I truly believe that you are a good person with possibly an excellent future, but you need to get the negatives out of your life, become a positive role model for your daughter, and gain some sense of self. I think you can do it.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

you could always send her an email pretending to be him to try to get more info.. Probably bad advice, but i would do it...

He never told you about her and if they were JUST friends he wouldn't have anything to hide. So there is something going on or there was.


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## southernmagnolia (Apr 12, 2011)

I just read most of this thread. :scratchhead::scratchhead: 

sacredheart, I've been around a few forums in my day but your situation is in the top 5 of the most f'd up, I've ever read about. You really need to seriously consider getting some professional help as you can't seem to dig your way out of this alone and in spite of page upon page of good people giving you advice. 

This man has shown you over and over who he really is, but yet you don't believe him. He IS a very bad man and he will destroy you even further. 

Something is broken inside of you that you would continually allow this. I'm not saying you are a bad person, but you are broken. Please get some professional help.


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