# "Cute big guy at work" OOOPs said to much?



## kettle

Hi all I am a married man. Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child. I know, not a good reason, nevertheless that is why I am still in it I tell myself. A couple of years ago a guy where my wife works gave her a small gift. It was related to his work and consisted of a duffel bag with logo, baseball cap and a t-shirt. She likes flying and this gift had logos of the company he worked for printed on it. He is a aircraft crew member. I did not think to much of it, although if a man gives a woman a gift there is almost always something behind it IMO. 


Obviously she has been speaking with this guy when he comes to the hospital every now and then with the helicopter.

Yesterday, she said to me "that big cute guy said I could go for a ride with him in the helicopter sometime." Now I don't believe she intended to use the word "cute" as soon as she said it the look on her face turned to shock. I did not say anything other than "that's cool" as I also was a shocked about her choice of words. I even said to myself she cant have said cute maybe she said huge. Nope, my daughter looked at her mom and said "who is cute." So I know what I heard.

Obviously this is a HUGE red flag. Well I think it is. I spoke to a buddy of mine this morning and he said keep mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Which is what I am doing. Any other suggestions?

EDIT: Helicopter guy is not a pilot. He is a paramedic in the back of the medical evacuation chopper. Now I also looked at the company website and it states they can give "ride alongs" to emergency room personnel which my wife is as she is a nurse at the hospital.

EDIT2: Discovered wife had an extra 5000 dollars of credit card debt she tried to keep from me. Some from before we were married and some just after.

EDIT3: 2-3 weeks ago I found a credit card when I was going to buy stuff for our camping trip. Wife said grab it out of my purse. I pulled out the "wrong" one. She looked startled and said of that is an old before we were married and does not work. So, 3 minutes ago I tried it online hoping it would not work. Surprise, surprise it worked! Card is still active despite the lie she told me.


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## FieryHairedLady

How old is your kid?


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## kettle

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> How old is your kid?


She is 4 1/2


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## FieryHairedLady

Ok so I am missing the point?

Are you worried he is a predator?

Are you worried he is trying to get to you by being nice to your kid?


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## kettle

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Ok so I am missing the point?
> 
> Are you worried he is a predator?
> 
> Are you worried he is trying to get to you by being nice to your kid?



No I am worried that he and my wife are attracted to one another and an affair may be in the works. As a married man I would never invite a married woman out, even if it is a night flight in a helicopter, nor would I give a woman gifts. 

Am I overreacting do you think?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

kettle said:


> Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child. I know, not a good reason, nevertheless that is why I am still in it I tell myself. A couple of years ago a guy where my work gave her a small gift. It was related to his work and consisted of a duffel bag with logo, baseball cap and a t-shirt. She likes flying and this gift had logos of the company he worked for printed on it. He is a aircraft crew member. I did not think to much of it, although if a man gives a woman a gift there is almost always something behind it IMO.
> 
> 
> Obviously she has been speaking with this guy when he comes to the hospital every now and then with the helicopter.
> 
> Yesterday, she said to me "that big cute guy said I could go for a ride with him in the helicopter sometime." Now I don't believe she intended to use the word "cute" as soon as she said it the look on her face turned to shock. I did not say anything other than "that's cool" as I also was a shocked about her choice of words. I even said to myself she cant have said cute maybe she said huge. Nope, my daughter looked at her mom and said "who is cute." So I know what I heard.
> 
> Obviously this is a HUGE red flag. Well I think it is. I spoke to a buddy of mine this morning and he said keep mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Which is what I am doing. Any other suggestions?


Nip it in the bud. Obviously your wife likes the attention he is giving her and is encouraging it by accepting gifts. Since the gifts she has been chatting with him regularly. 

Tell her a helicopter ride sounds like fun but his attention to her and her reciprocating has definitely gone too far, so ask when do you ALL go. She what she says then.


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## FieryHairedLady

kettle said:


> No I am worried that he and my wife are attracted to one another and an affair may be in the works. As a married man I would never invite a married woman out, even if it is a night flight in a helicopter, nor would I give a woman gifts.
> 
> Am I overreacting do you think?


Ok I get it now, I got confused. Your user name, I was thinking you were female. that you are the wife. I was thinking this guy asked your kid out for a ride on a helicopter. 

He asked your wife out on a ride.

He gave your wife the gift or it was for the kid?

Yeah, this doesn't look good. 

You need to slam the brakes on this right now.


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## kettle

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Nip it in the bud. Obviously your wife likes the attention he is giving her and is encouraging it by accepting gifts. Since the gifts she has been chatting with him regularly.
> 
> Tell her a helicopter ride sounds like fun but his attention to her and her reciprocating has definitely gone too far, so ask when do you ALL go. She what she says then.





Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Ok I get it now, I got confused. Your user name, I was thinking you were female. that you are the wife. I was thinking this guy asked your kid out for a ride on a helicopter.
> 
> He asked your wife out on a ride.
> 
> He gave your wife the gift or it was for the kid?
> 
> Yeah, this doesn't look good.
> 
> You need to slam the brakes on this right now.


Yes asked my wife.
Gave gift to wife not child.
I know looks ****ty. Think going to get VAR. 
Yes I do.


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## kettle

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Ok I get it now, I got confused. Your user name, I was thinking you were female. that you are the wife. I was thinking this guy asked your kid out for a ride on a helicopter.
> 
> He asked your wife out on a ride.
> 
> He gave your wife the gift or it was for the kid?
> 
> Yeah, this doesn't look good.
> 
> You need to slam the brakes on this right now.


Thanks. Oh well wife and I have not had an argument in a while at least this one will be over a serious matter.


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## TDSC60

Is your wife a nurse?

Sad to say that the medical profession is rampant with cheating.


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## Mr. Nail

On a side note I'm the one who bought and uses the kettle in my house.


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## MyRevelation

kettle said:


> Am I overreacting do you think?


 No you're not overreacting ... if anything, you're not reacting enough.

Time to start snooping to see if they are communicating outside of the workplace. Can you access her phone?

I see you're considering getting a VAR ... put some action to those thoughts.

Please don't be one of the BH's that sits by unconditionally trusting your W, while she starts up an A with that "cute big guy at work".


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## MyRevelation

kettle said:


> Thanks. Oh well wife and I have not had an argument in a while at least this one will be over a serious matter.


Also, when the confrontation does occur. Ask her to give you the "gift" he gave her and destroy/burn it right in front of her. Nothing like a little visual aide to drive home just how serious you to consider this to be.


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## Yeswecan

kettle said:


> No I am worried that he and my wife are attracted to one another and an affair may be in the works. As a married man I would never invite a married woman out, even if it is a night flight in a helicopter, nor would I give a woman gifts.
> 
> Am I overreacting do you think?


No, I don't think you are overreacting. I'm married. I too do not gifts to OW. I own several classic cars that some women admire. I do not offer rides. 

Helicopter boy...does he own the helicopter and is he legally permitted to take passengers on board? Helicopter boy is fishing.


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## TRy

kettle said:


> A couple of years ago a guy where my wife works gave her a small gift. It was related to his work and consisted of a duffel bag with logo, baseball cap and a t-shirt. She likes flying and this gift had logos of the company he worked for printed on it.





kettle said:


> Yesterday, she said to me "that big cute guy said I could go for a ride with him in the helicopter sometime."


 A couple of years ago a guy gives your wife gifts with his helicopter company logo on it. This same person who your wife thinks of as "that big cute guy" (this is probably how she refers to him with her coworkers) is now asking her if she wants to go on a helicopter ride with him. He had to make an effort on behalf of your wife to make both of these things happen. He is not doing this for the other woman that your wife works with, just for her. Why? The answer is that he thinks that your wife is just as cute as your wife thinks he is.

Google a helicopter ride company in your area and get available dates. Tell your wife that she should have told you that she wanted to ride in a helicopter, and that you think that it would be a fun and romantic date for the two of you to go on. Then tell her that there is now no good reason for her to go on the ride with "that big cute guy", unless spending time with this other man is the real reason that she wants to go.


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## Faithful Wife

TRy said:


> Google a helicopter ride company in your area and get available dates. Tell your wife that she should have told you that she wanted to ride in a helicopter, and that you think that it would be a fun and romantic date for the two of you to go on. *Then tell her that there is now no good reason for her to go on the ride with "that big cute guy", unless spending time with this other man is the real reason that she wants to go*.


Really excellent idea, but do not say the bolded. Say "no way I'm going to let some other guy take you in a helicopter" after scheduling the date and surprising her with it. Then don't say another word about it other than you are glad you were prompted to have such a great date idea.


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## BioFury

kettle said:


> Hi all I am a married man. Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child. I know, not a good reason, nevertheless that is why I am still in it I tell myself. A couple of years ago a guy where my wife works gave her a small gift. It was related to his work and consisted of a duffel bag with logo, baseball cap and a t-shirt. She likes flying and this gift had logos of the company he worked for printed on it. He is a aircraft crew member. I did not think to much of it, although if a man gives a woman a gift there is almost always something behind it IMO.
> 
> 
> Obviously she has been speaking with this guy when he comes to the hospital every now and then with the helicopter.
> 
> Yesterday, she said to me "that big cute guy said I could go for a ride with him in the helicopter sometime." Now I don't believe she intended to use the word "cute" as soon as she said it the look on her face turned to shock. I did not say anything other than "that's cool" as I also was a shocked about her choice of words. I even said to myself she cant have said cute maybe she said huge. Nope, my daughter looked at her mom and said "who is cute." So I know what I heard.
> 
> Obviously this is a HUGE red flag. Well I think it is. I spoke to a buddy of mine this morning and he said keep mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Which is what I am doing. Any other suggestions?


Well, if your marriage is just for show, why does it even matter to you?


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## personofinterest

"Well, if your marriage is just for show, why does it even matter to you?"

This


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## colingrant

It's a little early to accuse or be real suspicious, but not too early to investigate. Do not confront however or she'll take it further underground if she is in fact in an affair or beginning one and it will be harder for you to unveil what's going on. Too early to tell anything but be vigilant and do not change your disposition to tip her off. VAR and phone records is suffice as a starter.


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## Stormguy2018

"Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child."

So why do you care what she does?


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## 3Xnocharm

Stormguy2018 said:


> "Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child."
> 
> So why do you care what she does?


So yeah, THIS. Do we assume that she has a history of cheating?


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## Tron

Well, the good thing about all this (and maybe the only good thing) is that if you are looking for the perfect reason to bail out of the marriage, letting her go have an affair with the helicopter pilot kind of gets you off the hook for any responsibility for the demise of the marriage.


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## Robert22205

Does the pilot fly his own helicopter? If not, his boss won't like him giving free rides. That's an expensive piece of equipment to fly.

Tell your wife that she should not have accepted the gift.
Tell your wife you're going to her workplace so she can introduce you to him. 
Tell her you're meeting this guy (with or without her permission).
And you're returning his gift in person...or she can do it with you present.
You need to introduce yourself to the OM ...let him know 'who' you are and that she's your wife.

Even though you're both in the marriage for the kid, you each have an obligation to act adult, be civil and respect one another - as a role model and to provide a safe home for your child. Teasing, flirting, insulting, swearing at one another is not appropriate.


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## DustyDog

kettle said:


> Hi all I am a married man. Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child. I know, not a good reason, nevertheless that is why I am still in it I tell myself. A couple of years ago a guy where my wife works gave her a small gift. It was related to his work and consisted of a duffel bag with logo, baseball cap and a t-shirt. She likes flying and this gift had logos of the company he worked for printed on it. He is a aircraft crew member. I did not think to much of it, although if a man gives a woman a gift there is almost always something behind it IMO.
> 
> 
> Obviously she has been speaking with this guy when he comes to the hospital every now and then with the helicopter.
> 
> Yesterday, she said to me "that big cute guy said I could go for a ride with him in the helicopter sometime." Now I don't believe she intended to use the word "cute" as soon as she said it the look on her face turned to shock. I did not say anything other than "that's cool" as I also was a shocked about her choice of words. I even said to myself she cant have said cute maybe she said huge. Nope, my daughter looked at her mom and said "who is cute." So I know what I heard.
> 
> Obviously this is a HUGE red flag. Well I think it is. I spoke to a buddy of mine this morning and he said keep mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Which is what I am doing. Any other suggestions?



Red flag? There's a MUCH bigger one. In fact, MANY bigger ones. They all point at you and beg the question "why do you stay married"? It's not for the kid - your phrase "I tell myself.." says you don't believe it. So there's nothing there to stay glued to. "mouth shut and ears open" is exactly what a person does to an enemy. You do not act like someone who should stay.

Move on.


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## GusPolinski

Eyes open, mouth shut.


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## Kamstel

Is this how you really want to spend the rest of your life??

I’m sorry and good luck


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## BluesPower

kettle said:


> Hi all I am a married man. Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child. I know, not a good reason, nevertheless that is why I am still in it I tell myself. A couple of years ago a guy where my wife works gave her a small gift. It was related to his work and consisted of a duffel bag with logo, baseball cap and a t-shirt. She likes flying and this gift had logos of the company he worked for printed on it. He is a aircraft crew member. I did not think to much of it, although if a man gives a woman a gift there is almost always something behind it IMO.
> 
> Obviously she has been speaking with this guy when he comes to the hospital every now and then with the helicopter.
> 
> Yesterday, she said to me "that big cute guy said I could go for a ride with him in the helicopter sometime." Now I don't believe she intended to use the word "cute" as soon as she said it the look on her face turned to shock. I did not say anything other than "that's cool" as I also was a shocked about her choice of words. I even said to myself she cant have said cute maybe she said huge. Nope, my daughter looked at her mom and said "who is cute." So I know what I heard.
> 
> Obviously this is a HUGE red flag. Well I think it is. I spoke to a buddy of mine this morning and he said keep mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Which is what I am doing. Any other suggestions?





kettle said:


> No I am worried that he and my wife are attracted to one another and an affair may be in the works. As a married man I would never invite a married woman out, even if it is a night flight in a helicopter, nor would I give a woman gifts.
> 
> Am I overreacting do you think?





personofinterest said:


> "Well, if your marriage is just for show, why does it even matter to you?"
> 
> This


Let me understand, you are staying in the marriage for the kid, yeah bad idea. However, you are concerned that you wife may be having an affair.

Well yes she probably is, or is fixing to, and she really thinks you are stupid by the way, the way that she brought it up. 

So yeah, mouth shut eyes open, check her phone, VAR and all of that. 

But I am with @personofinterest and everyone else... Why do you care? 

Let's ask some other questions: 

1) Do you want out of the marriage and are you looking for a good reason? 

2) Why do you want out and besides the child, why have you not tried to move on? 

3) Do you want to work on the marriage, or is it just dead to you. 

4) Do you actually love your wife? 

5) Do you guys have any type of sex life? 

I would really like to know the answers to all of those questions. It would give us all a clearer picture. 

But yeah, she is either banging this guy or wants too, which means she will...


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## x598

Kamstel said:


> Is this how you really want to spend the rest of your life??
> 
> I’m sorry and good luck


AMEN.

I would take the 'love pouch' with the company logo on it, pack it with clothes and bathroom items......and tell her not to come back. maybe even throw in a scenic charter helicopter flight for two (using her credit card of course).


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## BluesPower

x598 said:


> AMEN.
> 
> I would take the 'love pouch' with the company logo on it, pack it with clothes and bathroom items......and tell her not to come back. maybe even throw in a scenic charter helicopter flight for two (using her credit card of course).


Hey, that is a really good idea. 

I still wonder why he cares though....


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## Evinrude58

Yeah, a cute big guy that gives gifts and offers night time helicopter rides to married ladies he meets at work... Nah, nothing to worry about. YOu're overreacting. Just give the guy a box of condoms and tell him good luck with your wife, since he's made it clear what he's after and you don't enjoy competing for your wife with other men-- but don't want to raise kids who aren't yours. Shame him, shame her.

Cute big guy with the helicopter. Geez. Does it get any more obvious?


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## x598

BluesPower said:


> Hey, that is a really good idea.
> 
> I still wonder why he cares though....


maybe throw some lingerie in there too...…..cuz I bet he isn't seeing it get used.


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## MyRevelation

BluesPower said:


> x598 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, that is a really good idea.
> 
> I still wonder why he cares though....
> 
> 
> 
> I could maybe put up with a W that didn’t love me for a kid, but I damn sure ain’t putting up with one that openly tries to humiliate me with her A.
> 
> I’d it is what it seems, cut her and fly boy off at the knees.
Click to expand...


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## TRy

Stormguy2018 said:


> "Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child."
> 
> So why do you care what she does?


 Many spouses stay in a marriage until their children get older. It does not mean that they are OK with an open marriage.


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## TRy

x598 said:


> I would take the 'love pouch' with the company logo on it, pack it with clothes and bathroom items......and tell her not to come back. maybe even throw in a scenic charter helicopter flight for two (using her credit card of course).


 Put the fire and pitchforks away. Reading only this thread, all we know is that 2 years ago she took company logo gifts from the other man ("OM"), and that the OM offered to fly her around (which the wife told the husband about to see if he would object). This is not nearly enough to assume an affair. This is enough to assume that the OM is pursuing the OP's wife, and she enjoys the attention. 

I agree with those saying to put an end to it now, but not with those that already have the OM man banging the wife like a drum.


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## BluesPower

TRy said:


> Put the fire and pitchforks away. Reading only this thread, all we know is that 2 years ago she took company logo gifts from the other man ("OM"), and that the OM offered to fly her around (which the wife told the husband about to see if he would object). This is not nearly enough to assume an affair. This is enough to assume that the OM is pursuing the OP's wife, and she enjoys the attention.
> 
> I agree with those saying to put an end to it now, but not with those that already have the OM man banging the wife like a drum.


I think this is recent. But either way, we both know that she is completely out of line.


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## 2ntnuf

VAR in living room and any other public place.

She's already had him.


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## Evinrude58

TRy said:


> Put the fire and pitchforks away. Reading only this thread, all we know is that 2 years ago she took company logo gifts from the other man ("OM"), and that the OM offered to fly her around (which the wife told the husband about to see if he would object). This is not nearly enough to assume an affair. This is enough to assume that the OM is pursuing the OP's wife, and she enjoys the attention.
> 
> I agree with those saying to put an end to it now, but not with those that already have the OM man banging the wife like a drum.


Why does she accept gifts and want to go fly around with another man she describes as cute?

She is shopping. She may have already bought the new car.


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## VladDracul

Now if she said "That big cute guy said I could go for a ride with him in the helicopter sometime" and you know he's 5'8" and 150 lbs, that would shownuff be a red flag.


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## Kamstel

Has your wife cheated before?


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## Mr.Married

**********I did not say anything other than "that's cool" **********

That's a bit telling in how you maybe ended up in your current position.


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## arbitrator

kettle said:


> *Hi all. I am a married man. Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child. I know, not a good reason, nevertheless that is why I am still in it I tell myself. A couple of years ago a guy where my wife works gave her a small gift. It was related to his work and consisted of a duffel bag with logo, baseball cap and a t-shirt. She likes flying and this gift had logos of the company he worked for printed on it. He is a aircraft crew member. I did not think to much of it, although if a man gives a woman a gift there is almost always something behind it IMO.
> 
> 
> Obviously she has been speaking with this guy when he comes to the hospital every now and then with the helicopter.
> 
> Yesterday, she said to me "that big cute guy said I could go for a ride with him in the helicopter sometime." Now I don't believe she intended to use the word "cute" as soon as she said it the look on her face turned to shock. I did not say anything other than "that's cool" as I also was as shocked about her choice of words. I even said to myself she can't have said cute maybe she said "huge." Nope, my daughter looked at her mom and said "who is cute." So I know what I heard.
> 
> Obviously this is a HUGE red flag. Well I think it is. I spoke to a buddy of mine this morning and he said keep mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Which is what I am doing. Any other suggestions?*


*Another potential Red Flag that would be a similar, "sound-alike" word would be adjective, "nude".

Just be careful and please keep your eyes as open as are your ears!*


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## EleGirl

kettle said:


> Hi all I am a married man. Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child. I know, not a good reason, nevertheless that is why I am still in it I tell myself.


You don't love your wife and don't really want to be married to her.

Have you been truthful to her about why you are still in the marriage?


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## BruceBanner

TDSC60 said:


> Is your wife a nurse?
> 
> Sad to say that the medical profession is rampant with cheating.


How do you know this?


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## BruceBanner

BioFury said:


> Well, if your marriage is just for show, why does it even matter to you?





personofinterest said:


> "Well, if your marriage is just for show, why does it even matter to you?"
> 
> This





Stormguy2018 said:


> "Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child."
> 
> So why do you care what she does?





BluesPower said:


> Hey, that is a really good idea.
> 
> I still wonder why he cares though....





BluesPower said:


> Hey, that is a really good idea.
> 
> I still wonder why he cares though....


Why should he care you all ask? Well considering if she gets pregnant somehow and they are still married depending on where they live he could legally be presumed to be the father.

https://www.dhirschberglaw.com/in-f...-a-married-woman-presumed-to-be-her-husbands/


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## PreRaph

EleGirl said:


> You don't love your wife and don't really want to be married to her.
> 
> Have you been truthful to her about why you are still in the marriage?


This is the part that's confusing me. If you don't love your wife and you are together just for the kids, why are you upset about her being attracted to another man?


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## Evinrude58

People don’t “stay for the kids”. Few have such altruistic qualities.

They stay because they still love their spouse, don’t want to disrupt their lives, are scared to move on, hope their spouse will fall back in love with them, etc etc.

OP’s wife asked him if he minded if she went on a helicopter ride with a big cute guy at work (clearly a date), and his response was “yeah that’s cool”. It’s eating him up inside, yet he does what he’s been doing all along— nothing.

OP, if your wife no longer loves you, set her free. You’ll be setting yourself free, too.
Women aren’t as hard to find as you think.
You can find one that you’re attracted to that thinks the same of you. That’s better than what you’re doing now.

Your child will adapt. Happy apart parents would be better to adapt to to than unloving together parents.

If you do think your wife loves you, start showing some backbone and tell her how you feel. If you can’t tell your wife how you really feel, you need to get a new wife.


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## Mr.Married

Evinrude58 said:


> If you can’t tell your wife how you really feel, you need to get a new wife.


No..she needs to get a new husband.


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## Kirk401

Mr.Married said:


> No..she needs to get a new husband.


 That's what I was thinking Lol! Don't know the whole story but clearly the Mrs. is not a happy wifey if she's doing and saying the things she is. What's the real issues here ??? The talk of cute guy in front of the husband is a result of marriage/relationship issues not the cause the way its looks to me.


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## TDSC60

BruceBanner said:


> How do you know this?


Internet search.


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## mickybill

Big cute helicopter pilot? Does he have a sexy accent too? 

I am not familiar with your situation, you are staying for the kid? 
Is your wife aware of that? Is she staying for the kids too?
If it is an open marriage then it is different from a regular family, and you two should have boundaries for dating. And this is a date, unless he says bring along Kettle and liitle kid too. 

What sort of work does he do in da chopper? If he is medi-vac, Coast guard, Police or Fire Dept, TV news, or exec/rich people transport that is sexier (but most likely off limits except for the bosses for dating flights) than flying above power lines all day for the DWP or spraying crops... 
But at the end of the day he is still a cute big guy with access to a helicopter and is wants access to your wife. 

Do you care?


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## VladDracul

BruceBanner said:


> Why should he care you all ask? Well considering if she gets pregnant somehow and they are still married depending on where they live he could legally be presumed to be the father.
> 
> https://www.dhirschberglaw.com/in-f...-a-married-woman-presumed-to-be-her-husbands/


That's what happens when you're too chicken shyt to be alone. You get to raise, support, and sacrifice for some other guys kid that will likely kick you in tha azz one day..


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## Diana7

TRy said:


> A couple of years ago a guy gives your wife gifts with his helicopter company logo on it. This same person who your wife thinks of as "that big cute guy" (this is probably how she refers to him with her coworkers) is now asking her if she wants to go on a helicopter ride with him. He had to make an effort on behalf of your wife to make both of these things happen. He is not doing this for the other woman that your wife works with, just for her. Why? The answer is that he thinks that your wife is just as cute as your wife thinks he is.
> 
> Google a helicopter ride company in your area and get available dates. Tell your wife that she should have told you that she wanted to ride in a helicopter, and that you think that it would be a fun and romantic date for the two of you to go on. Then tell her that there is now no good reason for her to go on the ride with "that big cute guy", unless spending time with this other man is the real reason that she wants to go.


I was thinking something similar, like 'that's kind of him to ask us, when can we go'' Act dumb and assume you are all invited.


----------



## *Deidre*

kettle said:


> Hi all I am a married man. Now as some of you know I remain in my marriage due to my child. I know, not a good reason, nevertheless that is why I am still in it I tell myself. A couple of years ago a guy where my wife works gave her a small gift. It was related to his work and consisted of a duffel bag with logo, baseball cap and a t-shirt. She likes flying and this gift had logos of the company he worked for printed on it. He is a aircraft crew member. I did not think to much of it, although if a man gives a woman a gift there is almost always something behind it IMO.
> 
> 
> Obviously she has been speaking with this guy when he comes to the hospital every now and then with the helicopter.
> 
> Yesterday, she said to me "that big cute guy said I could go for a ride with him in the helicopter sometime." Now I don't believe she intended to use the word "cute" as soon as she said it the look on her face turned to shock. I did not say anything other than "that's cool" as I also was a shocked about her choice of words. I even said to myself she cant have said cute maybe she said huge. Nope, my daughter looked at her mom and said "who is cute." So I know what I heard.
> 
> Obviously this is a HUGE red flag. Well I think it is. I spoke to a buddy of mine this morning and he said keep mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Which is what I am doing. Any other suggestions?


Maybe a good reply would be " no problem, babe. This hot girl that I work with, she asked me to go to lunch. It's nice being wanted, isn't it?''

Then, keep your mouth shut and walk away. 

Of course, I'm joking, kind of. lol But, sometimes people have to see how ridiculous they sound.

There is nothing wrong however, in noticing the opposite sex and finding them attractive, but to act on this guy's advances, would be very wrong of your wife, and would send him the message that she's interested. And unfortunately, there are a lot of people who don't care if someone else is married.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Kettle,

You know damn good and well something is going on or you would not be here. Secondly, if you are not in love with her as you have stated and you are only staying for your daughter, I have to wonder why you even care? Your position on this matter is grossly illogical. I will be you a six pack of your favorite beer there has been something going on between copter boy and your wife. Deep down you already know.

You are getting the VAR so I will ask you why? She very likely knows you are not in love with her, she is likely not in love with you or she and copter boy would not be so chummy. Therefore, why stay married and go to all of the trouble you are going to? You are not being fair to your wife in my opinion. Why stay married to someone you do not love?


----------



## VladDracul

Exactly, Lonely Husband. My question is if he catches her handling copter boy's cyclic stick, what the hell is he going to do about it. Besides, who can blame her for searching for a replacement, either temporary or permanently. Just because her wants to hang around only for the kids doesn't means she's got to sign on for his deal. If he doesn't like her diddling around with other guys, hit the trail.


----------



## 2ntnuf

If nothing else, proof gives peace of mind.


----------



## MAJDEATH

It's when they *stop* talking about the big cute guy at work is when you should worry.


----------



## oldtruck

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Nip it in the bud. Obviously your wife likes the attention he is giving her and is encouraging it by accepting gifts. Since the gifts she has been chatting with him regularly.
> 
> Tell her a helicopter ride sounds like fun but his attention to her and her reciprocating has definitely gone too far, so ask when do you ALL go. She what she says then.


Better yet: ask when he is taking her and you.

This man wants to get into your WW's pants. End of story time to shut the
OM relationship down. Wives have no business taking gifts from men.


----------



## LosingHim

I’m not concerned with the gift. If it’s a company bag with a logo, a T-shirt and a ball cap it doesn’t sound personal, rather most likely something they have laying around to give to people. But I work in purchasing and get these types of “gifts” all the time. 

When my husband worked at a soft drink company, I gave a male coworker some “clothing swag” that I got from my husband because he’d asked me a couple times if I could get him some stuff.

Definitely mouth closed and eyes open on the rest though.


----------



## Jharp

While I see some Red Flags here on both her part and your's OP, I think we need more information before we can proceed. The question is, what do you want? Do you want out of this Marriage and want to use this as the excuse needed to do that? Or, do you want to save your Marriage? If so, Why? That 'just for the kids' excuse is just that. An excuse. You need to determine if you still love this woman and if you find that you do, then you need to put the breaks on this with a quickness. If you don't love her then you need to put the breaks on this sham of a Marriage with a quickness. While its nice if you were honest with us on this, the person you need to be honest most with is yourself. So you need to start asking yourself some questions first before you proceed.


----------



## bandit.45

I smell wet bridge funk.


----------



## Sports Fan

Time to investigate. Buy a VAR ASAP look out for pincodes on her phone etc. Is her phone attached to her hip. Let her know that you are not happy about the gift and she should return it.


----------



## kettle

TDSC60 said:


> Is your wife a nurse?
> 
> Sad to say that the medical profession is rampant with cheating.


Yes she is. It certainly does seem to have more than its fair share in the medical profession.



MyRevelation said:


> No you're not overreacting ... if anything, you're not reacting enough.
> 
> Time to start snooping to see if they are communicating outside of the workplace. Can you access her phone?
> 
> I see you're considering getting a VAR ... put some action to those thoughts.
> 
> Please don't be one of the BH's that sits by unconditionally trusting your W, while she starts up an A with that "cute big guy at work".


No going to be easy to get phone as she has it with her most of the time. Also a very light sleeper. 



MyRevelation said:


> Also, when the confrontation does occur. Ask her to give you the "gift" he gave her and destroy/burn it right in front of her. Nothing like a little visual aide to drive home just how serious you to consider this to be.


This is a powerful idea



Yeswecan said:


> No, I don't think you are overreacting. I'm married. I too do not gifts to OW. I own several classic cars that some women admire. I do not offer rides.
> 
> Helicopter boy...does he own the helicopter and is he legally permitted to take passengers on board? Helicopter boy is fishing.


He is definitely fishing



TRy said:


> A couple of years ago a guy gives your wife gifts with his helicopter company logo on it. This same person who your wife thinks of as "that big cute guy" (this is probably how she refers to him with her coworkers) is now asking her if she wants to go on a helicopter ride with him. He had to make an effort on behalf of your wife to make both of these things happen. He is not doing this for the other woman that your wife works with, just for her. Why? The answer is that he thinks that your wife is just as cute as your wife thinks he is.
> 
> Google a helicopter ride company in your area and get available dates. Tell your wife that she should have told you that she wanted to ride in a helicopter, and that you think that it would be a fun and romantic date for the two of you to go on. Then tell her that there is now no good reason for her to go on the ride with "that big cute guy", unless spending time with this other man is the real reason that she wants to go.


I have a feeling it is both about the ride and the man. Now I have buddy who works for the same company that "cute guy" does. I know he will clue me in on anything. I thought about the ride. But I think that is only an excuse.


----------



## kettle

DustyDog said:


> Red flag? There's a MUCH bigger one. In fact, MANY bigger ones. They all point at you and beg the question "why do you stay married"? It's not for the kid - your phrase "I tell myself.." says you don't believe it. So there's nothing there to stay glued to. "mouth shut and ears open" is exactly what a person does to an enemy. You do not act like someone who should stay.
> 
> Move on.


Great question. I think it comes down to several things. I grew up with an abusive step parent and I am paranoid my wife would end up in the same kind of relationship with my child. 
I believe I am co-dependent more than I realized. 
I was in the military. Perhaps that is why I have a kind of black and white way of seeing things.



GusPolinski said:


> Eyes open, mouth shut.


Definitely.



Kamstel said:


> Is this how you really want to spend the rest of your life??
> 
> I’m sorry and good luck


I know a ****ty way to live. You are right.



BluesPower said:


> Let me understand, you are staying in the marriage for the kid, yeah bad idea. However, you are concerned that you wife may be having an affair.
> 
> Well yes she probably is, or is fixing to, and she really thinks you are stupid by the way, the way that she brought it up.
> 
> So yeah, mouth shut eyes open, check her phone, VAR and all of that.
> 
> But I am with @personofinterest and everyone else... Why do you care?
> 
> Let's ask some other questions:
> 
> 1) Do you want out of the marriage and are you looking for a good reason?
> 
> 2) Why do you want out and besides the child, why have you not tried to move on?
> 
> 3) Do you want to work on the marriage, or is it just dead to you.
> 
> 4) Do you actually love your wife?
> 
> 5) Do you guys have any type of sex life?
> 
> I would really like to know the answers to all of those questions. It would give us all a clearer picture.
> 
> But yeah, she is either banging this guy or wants too, which means she will...





Evinrude58 said:


> Yeah, a cute big guy that gives gifts and offers night time helicopter rides to married ladies he meets at work... Nah, nothing to worry about. YOu're overreacting. Just give the guy a box of condoms and tell him good luck with your wife, since he's made it clear what he's after and you don't enjoy competing for your wife with other men-- but don't want to raise kids who aren't yours. Shame him, shame her.
> 
> Cute big guy with the helicopter. Geez. Does it get any more obvious?


I do love my wife in a weird way I think. Although I was not when we first married.
I do think she wants to bang him. 
We do have sex about once per week. Relationship wise it is the least fulfilling sex I have had. 
I am not sure how much I want to work on the marriage. Part of me does then when this kind of **** happens I think **** it. If she ****s around I will do the same to her, and I wont use a condom either.
I think I am to afraid to move on at the moment.


----------



## kettle

Evinrude58 said:


> Why does she accept gifts and want to go fly around with another man she describes as cute?
> 
> She is shopping. She may have already bought the new car.


She may have already, although I do not think she has yet.




Kamstel said:


> Has your wife cheated before?


No I don't believe so. But as a buddy said for some people they cheat at the drop of a hat. He said other people it takes a long time to get to that stage. He thinks my wife maybe the latter.



Mr.Married said:


> **********I did not say anything other than "that's cool" **********
> 
> That's a bit telling in how you maybe ended up in your current position.


Oh definitely. 



EleGirl said:


> You don't love your wife and don't really want to be married to her.
> 
> Have you been truthful to her about why you are still in the marriage?


Hardly. Its confusing at times. I do believe part of me loves her. I don't love being married. A couple of years ago after a huge blowout. My fault I lied to her about the meds I was meant to be taking she said she told me she was only with me because of our daughter.



PreRaph said:


> This is the part that's confusing me. If you don't love your wife and you are together just for the kids, why are you upset about her being attracted to another man?


Great question. Perhaps my ego?


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I didn't read that far, so forgive me if this has been said. But you mentioned you are only staying for the kid in your OP. Why would you then be worried about her cheating on you? If you are that checked out of the marriage, why are you surprised she is checked out and thus checking out other men? 

Sounds like a case of making the bed you lie in.


----------



## *Deidre*

VladDracul said:


> Exactly, Lonely Husband. My question is if he catches her handling copter boy's cyclic stick, what the hell is he going to do about it.


----------



## kettle

2ntnuf said:


> If nothing else, proof gives peace of mind.


Yes hence the VAR.



MAJDEATH said:


> It's when they *stop* talking about the big cute guy at work is when you should worry.


This was the first time she had brought him up in a while. Was proof to me that she has been likely talking to him on and off for a couple of years.



oldtruck said:


> Better yet: ask when he is taking her and you.
> 
> This man wants to get into your WW's pants. End of story time to shut the
> OM relationship down. Wives have no business taking gifts from men.


I agree with you.



LosingHim said:


> I’m not concerned with the gift. If it’s a company bag with a logo, a T-shirt and a ball cap it doesn’t sound personal, rather most likely something they have laying around to give to people. But I work in purchasing and get these types of “gifts” all the time.
> 
> When my husband worked at a soft drink company, I gave a male coworker some “clothing swag” that I got from my husband because he’d asked me a couple times if I could get him some stuff.
> 
> Definitely mouth closed and eyes open on the rest though.


Interesting points. Here though the gifts were targeted primarily at my wife I believe, not me. Although, they may have been for me as well IDK. 



Jharp said:


> While I see some Red Flags here on both her part and your's OP, I think we need more information before we can proceed. The question is, what do you want? Do you want out of this Marriage and want to use this as the excuse needed to do that? Or, do you want to save your Marriage? If so, Why? That 'just for the kids' excuse is just that. An excuse. You need to determine if you still love this woman and if you find that you do, then you need to put the breaks on this with a quickness. If you don't love her then you need to put the breaks on this sham of a Marriage with a quickness. While its nice if you were honest with us on this, the person you need to be honest most with is yourself. So you need to start asking yourself some questions first before you proceed.


I don't know if I know what I want to be honest.
I would likely use this as an excuse to exit marriage. Sometimes I want to save marriage other times not.


----------



## kettle

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Kettle,
> 
> You know damn good and well something is going on or you would not be here. Secondly, if you are not in love with her as you have stated and you are only staying for your daughter, I have to wonder why you even care? Your position on this matter is grossly illogical. I will be you a six pack of your favorite beer there has been something going on between copter boy and your wife. Deep down you already know.
> 
> You are getting the VAR so I will ask you why? She very likely knows you are not in love with her, she is likely not in love with you or she and copter boy would not be so chummy. Therefore, why stay married and go to all of the trouble you are going to? You are not being fair to your wife in my opinion. Why stay married to someone you do not love?


Good points.



VladDracul said:


> Exactly, Lonely Husband. My question is if he catches her handling copter boy's cyclic stick, what the hell is he going to do about it. Besides, who can blame her for searching for a replacement, either temporary or permanently. Just because her wants to hang around only for the kids doesn't means she's got to sign on for his deal. If he doesn't like her diddling around with other guys, hit the trail.


Oh yeah I need to point out the guy is not a pilot he is a paramedic riding in the back.


----------



## Decorum

When the time is right and she unlocks the phone grab it and lock yourself in bathroom/bedroom.

Screen shot what you find and send it to yourself. (Remember cheating wives ofter put the other mans number under a friends female name.)

She will be mad, tell her that your marriage is not strong and is hurting, and going on dates with the big cute guy at work us a big red flag to you. 

Remind her she told you she is only with you because of your daughter.

Tell her if she wants to date she should divorce you first and not cross these lines.

You are not ok with her pairing up with this guy and you NEVER will be.

He is hitting on a married women with children and that is so disrespectful (to her as a women, a person, and to your marriage).

Tell her, "you can try to spin it, but this is the typical cheater approach, period!!!!"

If she threatens divorce because of what you do and say, tell her that is much preferable to what she it inching up to now, and is a far better example to her daughter.

What would she tell her daughter in these exact same circumstances, with her husband objecting?


----------



## kettle

1.Helicopter guy is not a pilot. He is a paramedic in the back of the medical evacuation chopper. Now I also looked at the company website and it states they can give "ride alongs" to emergency room personnel which my wife is as she is a nurse at the hospital.

2. Discovered wife had an extra 5000 dollars of credit card debt she tried to keep from me. Some from before we were married and some just after.

3. 2-3 weeks ago I found a credit card when I was going to buy stuff for our camping trip. Wife said grab it out of my purse. I pulled out the "wrong" one. She looked startled and said of that is an old before we were married and does not work. So, 3 minutes ago I tried it online hoping it would not work. Surprise, surprise it worked! Card is still active despite the lie she told me. 


4. A couple of days after she blurted out about "cute big guy" and about an hour after we had sex she said hugged me and said "your the only one for me." Maybe nothing but I though unusual considering the comment a couple of days earlier.


----------



## Kamstel

First, you need to decide whether or not you want to be in this marriage. If you don’t, just file.

If you do want to be in this marriage, you need to shut this guy down now. Find out if he has a wife. If he does, or even if it’s just a girlfriend reach out to the girlfriend or wife without telling your wife or helicopter guy. Tell her That he is hitting on your wife.

At this point, I would say that you don’t need definitive proof. I would make the claim, and then let him prove his innocence to his wife/girlfriend.


----------



## kettle

Kamstel said:


> First, you need to decide whether or not you want to be in this marriage. If you don’t, just file.
> 
> If you do want to be in this marriage, you need to shut this guy down now. Find out if he has a wife. If he does, or even if it’s just a girlfriend reach out to the girlfriend or wife without telling your wife or helicopter guy. Tell her That he is hitting on your wife.
> 
> At this point, I would say that you don’t need definitive proof. I would make the claim, and then let him prove his innocence to his wife/girlfriend.


That is good advice for the most part. I am working on finding out more about this guy. Currently I do not even know his name. I am hoping VAR will tell me more. 

As for the marriage I am definitely mixed. If anybody else I would tell them to get out. I just look at my little girl and I am sure she would be crushed if her mom and I were divorced. I have two cousins who are still married only because of the kids. One said to me a while ago I never thought I would stay in a bad marriage for the sake of the children, and now here I am he said.


----------



## Kamstel

The red flags about a potential near-future are all over the place.

Her comment about you being the only one for her is a HUGE red flag that it is about to happen for the first time or that it just did!


If you want this marriage you need to tell the wife/girlfriend NOW!! Research the guy and blow up his world! Then tell your wife that if she wants to stay in the marriage, you have scheduled a polygraph test for her! Her reaction will probably tell you all you need to know!

Good luck and stay strong!


----------



## kettle

Kamstel said:


> The red flags about a potential near-future are all over the place.
> 
> Her comment about you being the only one for her is a HUGE red flag that it is about to happen for the first time or that it just did!
> 
> 
> If you want this marriage you need to tell the wife/girlfriend NOW!! Research the guy and blow up his world! Then tell your wife that if she wants to stay in the marriage, you have scheduled a polygraph test for her! Her reaction will probably tell you all you need to know!
> 
> Good luck and stay strong!


Thanks. Interesting night. I am pacing all over the place, I doubt I will sleep much. As I said earlier about an hour ago, I got the credit card that was supposedly closed(she never told me about it, I found it and it is active. Not shut. So that is further evidence she is a liar..


----------



## Decorum

kettle said:


> 4. A couple of days after she blurted out about "cute big guy" and about an hour after we had sex she said hugged me and said "your the only one for me." Maybe nothing but I though unusual considering the comment a couple of days earlier.


Yeah she was carpet bombing you to throw you off the scent.

It happens alot, it is a big red flag.

Big cute guy has been with her already, they are just trying to figure out a way to join the mile high club without raising your suspicions.


----------



## kettle

Decorum said:


> Yeah she was carpet bombing you to throw you off the scent.
> 
> It happens alot, it is a big red flag.
> 
> Big cute guy has been with her already, they are just trying to figure out a way to join the mile high club without raising your suspicions.



Yeah I kind of think you might be right. I am yet not totally willing(likely denial on my part) to believe(until I get proof) that she ha messed around on me yet. Although if it has not happened it is about to.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Kettle,

1) You need to break into that phone. Much of what you need to know is in it. 

2) That credit card, clearly the monthly bills are either online or going to her job. If online is she using a computer at home? If so install spyware. Run a credit check on her. You have her SS number on your tax returns. That will tell you what she is listing as a home address, like the hospital. You might find other debt she is creating behind your back. Myself, I would figure a way to to get a list of all the charges going back as far as you 2 were married. 

3) VAR in the car along with a GPS. 

4) Any friends at her work who can report on what she is doing? 

Sorry you are here and hate to advise this but your posts have too many red flags to ignore. You have caught her in at least one glaring lie and there are probably more. Blurting out CUTE BIG GUY is too much. Right in front of your child.

Stop wasting time and just do it.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

When was the last time she told you that she only remains married to you for the child? How many times has she said that? Has she ever taken it back? 

As far as your lying to her -You have to own that and fix it. If you never fixed it you pretty much gave her a pass to lie whenever she wants.


----------



## Decorum

This could just be an escalation, but they have had a long connection, and many opportunities.

Men and women are wired to meet and mate fairly quickly.

You could tell her, "I will never share my wife with another man, nor do I want to live a lie, if you have cheated or plan to lets just call it quits, and have an open marriage until the divorce is final."

If our relationship has run its course, lets move on.

After all these years there is no reason we should lie, cheat, and betray each other.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Kettle,
> 
> 1) You need to break into that phone. Much of what you need to know is in it.
> 
> 2) That credit card, clearly the monthly bills are either online or going to her job. If online is she using a computer at home? If so install spyware. Run a credit check on her. You have her SS number on your tax returns. That will tell you what she is listing as a home address, like the hospital. You might find other debt she is creating behind your back. Myself, I would figure a way to to get a list of all the charges going back as far as you 2 were married.
> 
> 3) VAR in the car along with a GPS.
> 
> 4) Any friends at her work who can report on what she is doing?
> 
> Sorry you are here and hate to advise this but your posts have too many red flags to ignore. You have caught her in at least one glaring lie and there are probably more. Blurting out CUTE BIG GUY is too much. Right in front of your child.
> 
> Stop wasting time and just do it.



All this advice just seems counterproductive. What is the point really of all of this? This is why I tend to stay out of the infidelity forums. If you have to get a VAR, take your spouses phone, check all your bills, use a GPS tracker, spy through friends... All this advice that regularly comes up that people put weeks of effort into, the marriage is already toast. It's OVER! 

Yeah you may be legally married on paper, but that is no kind of marriage. Just walk away sir. What is the point in torturing yourself going through all of this? 

I don't mean to single out your advice btw Broken. I'm just using it as an example of what I see given all the time over here. 

Do people really think that once you go down this path of spygate on your spouse that the marriage is salvageable at all? You are just prolonging the inevitable IMO. Just get out as quickly and painlessly as possible. Doing all this crap! What happens when you find dirt? You blow up and act stupid? Increase the chances of a knock down drag out divorce battle 10 fold? 

Just go file, hand her the papers yourself, and say its just not working but you want to be fair in the split and will work as hard as you can towards being a good co-parent for your daughter and you hope she will do the same.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

TheDudeLebowski said:


> All this advice just seems counterproductive. What is the point really of all of this? This is why I tend to stay out of the infidelity forums. If you have to get a VAR, take your spouses phone, check all your bills, use a GPS tracker, spy through friends... All this advice that regularly comes up that people put weeks of effort into, the marriage is already toast. It's OVER!
> 
> Yeah you may be legally married on paper, but that is no kind of marriage. Just walk away sir. What is the point in torturing yourself going through all of this?
> 
> I don't mean to single out your advice btw Broken. I'm just using it as an example of what I see given all the time over here.
> 
> Do people really think that once you go down this path of spygate on your spouse that the marriage is salvageable at all? You are just prolonging the inevitable IMO. Just get out as quickly and painlessly as possible. Doing all this crap! What happens when you find dirt? You blow up and act stupid? Increase the chances of a knock down drag out divorce battle 10 fold?
> 
> Just go file, hand her the papers yourself, and say its just not working but you want to be fair in the split and will work as hard as you can towards being a good co-parent for your daughter and you hope she will do the same.


He still loves her, they have a young child together and he deserves to know the truth.


----------



## Decorum

TheDudeLebowski said:


> All this advice just seems counterproductive. What is the point really of all of this? This is why I tend to stay out of the infidelity forums. If you have to get a VAR, take your spouses phone, check all your bills, use a GPS tracker, spy through friends... All this advice that regularly comes up that people put weeks of effort into, the marriage is already toast. It's OVER!


Some of this advice applies, and is offered knowing full well the marriage is over.

There are still many variables in working out a divorce.

The right information can and often is leveraged for some specific outcome.

This is more like business negotiations than relationship counseling, where knowing your clients and your competition makes a difference. 

Maybe check out some of @Taxman 's posts for quick reading.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> He still loves her, they have a young child together and he deserves to know the truth.


The truth about what exactly? I guess if he lives in a fault state, sure. If her infidelity will play no difference whatsoever in the eyes of the law, I would say just make the move to get the hell out asap with as little pain as possible. 

The risks outweigh the potential rewards in most cases. So no, I don't really understand the need for further truths beyond the only truth that really matters, which is the marriage is over. Time to just get out and get on with your life. Rip the bandaid off and move along down the road.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

In the OPs post he specifically said he needs to know. I am replying to what he posts. If he posted he was ready to walk away then I would reply to that.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

TheDudeLebowski said:


> The truth about what exactly? I guess if he lives in a fault state, sure. If her infidelity will play no difference whatsoever in the eyes of the law, I would say just make the move to get the hell out asap with as little pain as possible.
> 
> The risks outweigh the potential rewards in most cases. So no, I don't really understand the need for further truths beyond the only truth that really matters, which is the marriage is over. Time to just get out and get on with your life. Rip the bandaid off and move along down the road.


The truth if his marriage was one big lie. For many people not knowing eats at them for years and can be the cause of lasting emotional damage that they carry a long time - affecting future relationships and even teh relationship with their children . They play back scenarios over and over and wonder. It eats at them like a cancer.

Dude, what might work for you and some people does not necessarily work for everyone else. I do agree, some people see the flags, call it in and walk away happy. But not everyone.


----------



## [email protected]

Passwords that keep spouses off are a huge red flag. I can look on my wife's phone, computer, and check her credit cards if I want to do so. And I'm just as open to her. I can see her electronic trail, and she can see mine.


----------



## EleGirl

kettle said:


> That is good advice for the most part. I am working on finding out more about this guy. Currently I do not even know his name. I am hoping VAR will tell me more.
> 
> As for the marriage I am definitely mixed. If anybody else I would tell them to get out. I just look at my little girl and I am sure she would be crushed if her mom and I were divorced. I have two cousins who are still married only because of the kids. One said to me a while ago I never thought I would stay in a bad marriage for the sake of the children, and now here I am he said.


Staying in a marriage for the sake of the kids does not really help the kids. The children will learn that their parents' dysfunctional marriage is all that they can expect when they are grown and married, or in a relationship. Is that really what you want your children to learn?


----------



## kettle

Decorum said:


> Some of this advice applies, and is offered knowing full well the marriage is over.
> 
> There are still many variables in working out a divorce.
> 
> The right information can and often is leveraged for some specific outcome.
> 
> This is more like business negotiations than relationship counseling, where knowing your clients and your competition makes a difference.
> 
> Maybe check out some of @Taxman 's posts for quick reading.


I will get screwed over in this divorce. My wife comes from a family of lawyers. One of whom is a top divorce attorney in the state. She siblings and relatives who work for one of the top 100 law firms in the country. One has argued two cases before the state supreme court and won. 



TheDudeLebowski said:


> The truth about what exactly? I guess if he lives in a fault state, sure. If her infidelity will play no difference whatsoever in the eyes of the law, I would say just make the move to get the hell out asap with as little pain as possible.
> 
> The risks outweigh the potential rewards in most cases. So no, I don't really understand the need for further truths beyond the only truth that really matters, which is the marriage is over. Time to just get out and get on with your life. Rip the bandaid off and move along down the road.





Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> In the OPs post he specifically said he needs to know. I am replying to what he posts. If he posted he was ready to walk away then I would reply to that.


You are correct I know that in my brain.



Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> The truth if his marriage was one big lie. For many people not knowing eats at them for years and can be the cause of lasting emotional damage that they carry a long time - affecting future relationships and even teh relationship with their children . They play back scenarios over and over and wonder. It eats at them like a cancer.
> 
> Dude, what might work for you and some people does not necessarily work for everyone else. I do agree, some people see the flags, call it in and walk away happy. But not everyone.


Yup one big lie is true. I want to make sure I am 100% right or as close to that before I accuse her of anything here.



[email protected] said:


> Passwords that keep spouses off are a huge red flag. I can look on my wife's phone, computer, and check her credit cards if I want to do so. And I'm just as open to her. I can see her electronic trail, and she can see mine.


I could probably just ask to look at my wifes phone. She lets me use it to call my phone if it I lose and cannot find it.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

kettle said:


> If she ****s around I will do the same to her, and I wont use a condom either.
> I think I am to afraid to move on at the moment.


You're just proof of what I always say - most men will stay in a miserable marriage as long as they can, and use all kinds of ridiculous excuses to do so because they're too damned afraid to go out in the world and fend for themselves. And *that's* why women initiate 75% of divorces in the US. You're the reason WHY.

Not surprised that you're clinging like grim death to this slow-motion train wreck of a marriage.

But the childish nonsense about cheating and not using a condom sounds like something an 18 year old teenager would say. Your marriage sucks but you don't have to be a tool and possibly pick up an STD to spread around or worse yet, knock up some woman you pick up off Craigslist or meet in a bar because of it. Jesus.

If you want to stay in a sham of a marriage, that's your business. But you're expecting her to act like someone whose IN a real marriage when she's not. 

You can't suck and blow at the same time.


----------



## kettle

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You're just proof of what I always say - most men will stay in a miserable marriage as long as they can, and use all kinds of ridiculous excuses to do so because they're too damned afraid to go out in the world and fend for themselves. And *that's* why women initiate 75% of divorces in the US. You're the reason WHY.
> 
> Not surprised that you're clinging like grim death to this slow-motion train wreck of a marriage.
> 
> But the childish nonsense about cheating and not using a condom sounds like something an 18 year old teenager would say. Your marriage sucks but you don't have to be a tool and possibly pick up an STD to spread around or worse yet, knock up some woman you pick up off Craigslist or meet in a bar because of it. Jesus.
> 
> If you want to stay in a sham of a marriage, that's your business. But you're expecting her to act like someone whose IN a real marriage when she's not.
> 
> You can't suck and blow at the same time.


1. Despite what I said I highly doubt I would cheat on her out of revenge. If I did I wouldn't use a condom I have hardly ever used them. I was just angry when I wrote that comment.

2. Men cheat because they can't keep their dik in their pants. Women cheat because they cant keep the legs closed. Now in both cases they come up with all kinds of BS excuses to jusfity the choices they have made. It does not matter how alpha the man is (I have two relatives one a top lawyer and the other an international sports team coach. Both at the top of their respective fields and their wives cheated on them with lesser males. Likewise a woman could be a super model and a man will still cheat using some lame ass excuse.

3.No, I want her to tell me. I told her if you ever meet somebody else, just tell me is all I ask. She flew off the handle when I said that to her. What am most angry at hear is the possible deception. I used to date an EX hooker years ago. Turned out she was the most honest woman I have ever had a relationship with. She would tell me everything. Sometimes it hurt but at least I knew.
Here I don't know what is going on. 

4. She does not have to act like she is in a real marriage. We could come to some other arrangement or divorce. I just want to know the hell is going on.


----------



## SunCMars

TheDudeLebowski said:


> All this advice just seems counterproductive. What is the point really of all of this? This is why I tend to stay out of the infidelity forums. If you have to get a VAR, take your spouses phone, check all your bills, use a GPS tracker, spy through friends... All this advice that regularly comes up that people put weeks of effort into, the marriage is already toast. It's OVER!


When your marriage is suffering from a hundred cuts and none of them are sufficient enough to properly put it to death, a final death blow is needed.

A final shot, the smoking gun as witness.

If Kettle can prove infidelity decisively, he can die and be reborn.

He presently remains in bleak, cold, barren Siberia.

Prove infidelity.

VAR, VAR, VAR......Dive, Dive, Dive....Dig.


Get the proof to finish this dime store novel.

Find the guilty straw.Lay it atop the red flag heap.

Break your splay-legged marital-camels back.



TT-1


----------



## Decorum

kettle said:


> I will get screwed over in this divorce. My wife comes from a family of lawyers. One of whom is a top divorce attorney in the state. She siblings and relatives who work for one of the top 100 law firms in the country. One has argued two cases before the state supreme court and won. .


All the more reason to have your ducks in a row and not make any mistakes.

Except for leveraging information for a specific outcome, or controlling the narrative or spin for reputation sake, say for professional viability for example, a lot of it is divorce by the numbers.

Consulting a good tough lawyer as soon as you know action is on the horizon is paramount.

Any lawyers you have a consult with will be off limits to her but you cant take that too far.

Who knows how honorable and confidential any of them are. Did I really just write that?

Pardon me for asking if you have answered already. Of the two of you who earns more.

Does she work 12 hour shifts, and how many days a week?


----------



## Decorum

kettle said:


> 3.No, I want her to tell me. I told her if you ever meet somebody else, just tell me is all I ask. She flew off the handle when I said that to her. What am most angry at hear is the possible deception. I used to date an EX hooker years ago. Turned out she was the most honest woman I have ever had a relationship with. She would tell me everything. Sometimes it hurt but at least I knew.
> Here I don't know what is going on.
> 
> 4. She does not have to act like she is in a real marriage. We could come to some other arrangement or divorce. I just want to know the hell is going on.


See, this is what I have been saying. Primarily because of your ambivalence. I would feel the same under the circumstances.

I almost never advocate having a heart to heart with a cheater because (one they have no heart), and it only serves to warn them, and they then take it more underground and become more careful.

But I kind of feel like after some evidence gathering necessitated because of the imminent likely physical escalation, that at some point you really should tell her how you feel, and your concerns about this guy in a vulnerable and honest way.

Offer her that if this is inevitable, than she can do it in as honest and as honorable a way as possible and hurt you the less.

You dont have to tell her at the time that this door swings both ways and/or assures a divorce.

You can't predict how you will feel or make any promises.

At least you could gauge her reaction this way. Does she dismiss it, or does she make a few inquiries, i.e. "so you would be ok with that", "do you think you could handle that", etc?

You can call her on it later if it is useful and necessary.

Although if she was very dismissive or flies off the handle, I might put her in a no win situation assuming my gut is true and say, "I am sorry to see that you are choosing the path of dishonesty and betrayal.", and then dismiss her protestations.

I would then have her served and ever refuse to discuss it if it got to that point.


----------



## Rick Blaine

This may have been said already, but your wife may be trying to get your attention and make you jealous. An effort to breath life into the dying marriage. 

Seems to me instead of giving up you should both be learning what each other's needs are and meeting them. Spending time together doing exciting things. Romancing the stone and what not. 
Read marriage books and take action to fix this. Be a problem-solver not an avoider and quitter.


----------



## Nucking Futs

kettle said:


> I will get screwed over in this divorce. My wife comes from a family of lawyers. *One of whom is a top divorce attorney in the state.* She siblings and relatives who work for one of the top 100 law firms in the country. One has argued two cases before the state supreme court and won.


 @VermiciousKnid, would retaining another lawyer at the same firm prevent this relative from representing the ww?


----------



## Thor

kettle said:


> 1.Helicopter guy is not a pilot. He is a paramedic in the back of the medical evacuation chopper. Now I also looked at the company website and it states they can give "ride alongs" to emergency room personnel which my wife is as she is a nurse at the hospital.
> 
> 2. Discovered wife had an extra 5000 dollars of credit card debt she tried to keep from me. Some from before we were married and some just after.
> 
> 3. 2-3 weeks ago I found a credit card when I was going to buy stuff for our camping trip. Wife said grab it out of my purse. I pulled out the "wrong" one. She looked startled and said of that is an old before we were married and does not work. So, 3 minutes ago I tried it online hoping it would not work. Surprise, surprise it worked! Card is still active despite the lie she told me.
> 
> 
> 4. A couple of days after she blurted out about "cute big guy" and about an hour after we had sex she said hugged me and said "your the only one for me." Maybe nothing but I though unusual considering the comment a couple of days earlier.


1) Ride alongs are fine. The problem is he is using it to get to your wife.

2) Big huge red flag. The fact she would hide something like this is not just a lie but an indication of her basic roadmap for your marriage. In her mind it is ok to lie to you when she doesn't want you to know something. In this case it is something which may have been a deal-breaker for you. She is ok with manipulating you via lies to get what she wants even when she knows you would oppose it. This is financial infidelity as well as basic dishonesty (which violates her vows and is thus an infidelity).

3) Her financial infidelity continues, as she keeps this previous account going so that she can spend without your knowledge. She is lying to you by hiding it. And, she is obligating your labors to pay off the debt which she is accruing.

4) Yup, as others have said she is love bombing you. She is manipulating you with sex. This woman is in no way trustworthy, loyal, or loving.


----------



## kettle

SunCMars said:


> When your marriage is suffering from a hundred cuts and none of them are sufficient enough to properly put it to death, a final death blow is needed.
> 
> A final shot, the smoking gun as witness.
> 
> If Kettle can prove infidelity decisively, he can die and be reborn.
> 
> He presently remains in bleak, cold, barren Siberia.
> 
> Prove infidelity.
> 
> VAR, VAR, VAR......Dive, Dive, Dive....Dig.
> 
> 
> Get the proof to finish this dime store novel.
> 
> Find the guilty straw.Lay it atop the red flag heap.
> 
> Break your splay-legged marital-camels back.
> 
> 
> 
> TT-1


Yes, I want validation here to move on. I know she is lying about the finances. 




Decorum said:


> All the more reason to have your ducks in a row and not make any mistakes.
> 
> Except for leveraging information for a specific outcome, or controlling the narrative or spin for reputation sake, say for professional viability for example, a lot of it is divorce by the numbers.
> 
> Consulting a good tough lawyer as soon as you know action is on the horizon is paramount.
> 
> Any lawyers you have a consult with will be off limits to her but you cant take that too far.
> 
> Who knows honorable and confidential any of them are. Did I really just write that?
> 
> Pardon me for asking if you have answered already. Of the two of you who earns more.
> 
> Does she work 12 hour shifts, and how many days a week?


We earn around the same. She works 3 12 hour shifts on average. 




Decorum said:


> See, this is what I have been saying. Primarily because of your ambivalence. I would feel the same under the circumstances.
> 
> I almost never advocate having a heart to heart with a cheater because (one they have no heart), and it only serves to warn them, and they then take it more underground and become more careful.
> 
> But I kind of feel like after some evidence gathering necessitated because of the imminent likely physical escalation, that at some point you really should tell her how you feel, and your concerns about this guy in a vulnerable and honest way.
> 
> Offer her that if this is inevitable, than she can do it in as honest and as honorable a way as possible and hurt you the less.
> 
> You dont have to tell her at the time that this door swings both ways and/or assures a divorce.
> 
> You can't predict how you will feel or make any promises.
> 
> At least you could gauge her reaction this way. Does she dismiss it, or does she make a few inquiries, i.e. "so you would be ok with that", "do you think you could handle that", etc?
> 
> You can call her on it later if it is useful and necessary.
> 
> Although if she was very dismissive or flies off the handle, I might put her in a no win situation assuming my gut is true and say, "I am sorry to see that you are choosing the path of dishonesty and betrayal.", and then dismiss her protestations.
> 
> I would then have her served and ever refuse to discuss it if it got to that point.


I would probably wait till I get more evidence before I bring it up to her. If I have no evidence she will totally fly off the handle I sure of that.




Rick Blaine said:


> This may have been said already, but your wife may be trying to get your attention and make you jealous. An effort to breath life into the dying marriage.
> 
> Seems to me instead of giving up you should both be learning what each other's needs are and meeting them. Spending time together doing exciting things. Romancing the stone and what not.
> Read marriage books and take action to fix this. Be a problem-solver not an avoider and quitter.


I have wondered about this. She just bought No More Mr Nice Guy. Don't know if she will read it or not.



Nucking Futs said:


> @VermiciousKnid, would retaining another lawyer at the same firm prevent this relative from representing the ww?


Good question. Although there is no way I could afford a lawyer from this firm. These lawyers at this firm are making 500k per year.


----------



## Thor

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Kettle,
> 2) That credit card, clearly the monthly bills are either online or going to her job. If online is she using a computer at home? If so install spyware. Run a credit check on her. You have her SS number on your tax returns. That will tell you what she is listing as a home address, like the hospital. You might find other debt she is creating behind your back. Myself, I would figure a way to to get a list of all the charges going back as far as you 2 were married.


Two specific comments about the credit card. First, get all the back records because it may show she has been cheating. What has she purchased and where? Sexy underwear never seen at home? Hotel rooms? Second, run a credit report on her. The credit bureaus give a free report. You will need her SS #, and you may be asked multiple choice questions like which address or which car loan did she have in the last 5 years. Strictly speaking it may not be legal for you to pull her report, idk. As a spouse maybe? Anyhow, it is what I would do. Other debt or other bank accounts may show up.


----------



## kettle

Thor said:


> Two specific comments about the credit card. First, get all the back records because it may show she has been cheating. What has she purchased and where? Sexy underwear never seen at home? Hotel rooms? Second, run a credit report on her. The credit bureaus give a free report. You will need her SS #, and you may be asked multiple choice questions like which address or which car loan did she have in the last 5 years. Strictly speaking it may not be legal for you to pull her report, idk. As a spouse maybe? Anyhow, it is what I would do. Other debt or other bank accounts may show up.


Ok I just called our bank. A couple of months they pulled both our credit reports as we were considering buying a new house. So I know they pulled them. Just called the loan officer to see if I can go in and see them. It was the loan officer who first raised the red flags about her outstanding debts.


The credit card is from capital one so I don't know how to see what she bought there.


----------



## VladDracul

Kettle, you seem to reaching in a grab bag of excuses why you're staying married to a woman you state you don't want to be with. Why don't you do a couple of things to straighten out our confusion.

1. Give us the real reason you keep holding on for dear life.

2. Tell us what you are going to do if you garner conclusive proof that she sleeping with any other guy besides you. If you're not going to do anything except complain about it, tell us that.

Right now you sound analogous to abused spouse who's having the police show up on a regular basis but refuses to press charges.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

SunCMars said:


> When your marriage is suffering from a hundred cuts and none of them are sufficient enough to properly put it to death, a final death blow is needed.
> 
> A final shot, the smoking gun as witness.
> 
> If Kettle can prove infidelity decisively, he can die and be reborn.
> 
> He presently remains in bleak, cold, barren Siberia.
> 
> Prove infidelity.
> 
> VAR, VAR, VAR......Dive, Dive, Dive....Dig.
> 
> 
> Get the proof to finish this dime store novel.
> 
> Find the guilty straw.Lay it atop the red flag heap.
> 
> Break your splay-legged marital-camels back.
> 
> 
> 
> TT-1


Yeah I still don't get it. Staying up all night agonizing. Plotting this and that to catch them in lies. Especially where words have already been spoken about only being together for the kid. 

I don't understand this need to know. The marriage is toast when you go down this path of spying, tracking, plotting this and that. Its done. The need to know seems masochistic to me. Like all that you are doing by digging is a little bit of pain shopping, and avoiding the inevitable.


----------



## kettle

VladDracul said:


> Kettle, you seem to reaching in a grab bag of excuses why you're staying married to a woman you state you don't want to be with. Why don't you do a couple of things to straighten out our confusion.
> 
> 1. Give us the real reason you keep holding on for dear life.
> 
> 2. Tell us what you are going to do if you garner conclusive proof that she sleeping with any other guy besides you. If you're not going to do anything except complain about it, tell us that.
> 
> Right now you sound analogous to abused spouse who's having the police show up on a regular basis but refuses to press charges.


1. I don't have conclusive proof yet. I might be wrong. Also Perhaps fear and co dependency. I also am scared wife may end up with somebody who is abusive to my daughter. I had an abusive stepfather growing up. Do not want that for little girl.


2. Great question. I don't know exactly. 



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Yeah I still don't get it. Staying up all night agonizing. Plotting this and that to catch them in lies. Especially where words have already been spoken about only being together for the kid.
> 
> I don't understand this need to know. The marriage is toast when you go down this path of spying, tracking, plotting this and that. Its done. The need to know seems masochistic to me. Like all that you are doing by digging is a little bit of pain shopping, and avoiding the inevitable.


I know you are right. If I was an outsider looking in I would also GTFO now!


----------



## Thor

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Do people really think that once you go down this path of spygate on your spouse that the marriage is salvageable at all? You are just prolonging the inevitable IMO.


Sometimes there is an innocent explanation for what really happened. Sometimes one spouse is starting to get off the path but there is time to correct things.

Doing some investigation can be helpful in saving a marriage and helping it become a good marriage. But I do agree with you in many cases when there is known infidelity or other known big problems that the investigation does not provide a route to a happier outcome than simply moving to divorce now.


----------



## Thor

The longer you stay married the more you lose in a divorce. Hey, I am the poster child for staying in a marriage for the kids. I did it for over 20 years.

I expect she will divorce you when the kids are out of the house. Maybe sooner. You need to realize divorce is almost a certainty for you. The longer you wait the more you'll lose.

Child support is logical. You'll be spending that money anyhow even if you stay married, though the court ordered amount isn't always seemingly fair. And, yes, being divorced means you'll be paying for 100% of your living expenses rather than sharing them with your W (assuming she is earning an income now). But, every penny you earn after the divorce is yours. You can and you will rebuild. The sooner you start rebuilding the better off you'll be.

If you wait until you're in your 50's, you'll lose half of all your assets in the divorce. It just doesn't leave enough time for you to recover before retirement. If you have a pension, you'll lose half of it to her. Half your 401k, half your IRA. Half your savings. Half the equity in the house.

The longer you are married the more you will get crushed with paying alimony, if your state allows alimony.

You are better off to get divorced sooner even though you may have to pay child support.


----------



## VladDracul

kettle said:


> I also am scared wife may end up with somebody who is abusive to my daughter. I had an abusive stepfather growing up. Do not want that for little girl.


Youre pretty much pissing against the wind. She could jettison you and still end up with someone abusive to your daughter. Despite you being there 24/7, your daughter could be abused by any one of a number of people. If you're divorced, you still have the power and authority to act on any abuse that comes to light. Chances are when you were growing up, the law was more lax and neither of your parents gave enough of a crap to step in.


----------



## x598

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You're just proof of what I always say - most men will stay in a miserable marriage as long as they can, and use all kinds of ridiculous excuses to do so because they're too damned afraid to go out in the world and fend for themselves. And *that's* why women initiate 75% of divorces in the US. You're the reason WHY.
> 
> Not surprised that you're clinging like grim death to this slow-motion train wreck of a marriage.
> 
> But the childish nonsense about cheating and not using a condom sounds like something an 18 year old teenager would say. Your marriage sucks but you don't have to be a tool and possibly pick up an STD to spread around or worse yet, knock up some woman you pick up off Craigslist or meet in a bar because of it. Jesus.
> 
> If you want to stay in a sham of a marriage, that's your business. But you're expecting her to act like someone whose IN a real marriage when she's not.
> 
> You can't suck and blow at the same time.


nice jab at male's.

have you ever considered that maybe men don't run off to divorce on a whim because of loyalty, concern for the impact of the divorce on others (especially kids) and arent just thinking solely of themselves, and given that in this case the OP doesnt know 100% the depth of his wife's deceit.......its not a slam dunk, clear cut decision. 

i have spoken to many divorced women who many years later on bitterly regretted their choice to divorce. What seemed like unbearable horrible circumstances they were living in and divorced over.....they figured out down the road the grass wasnt greener and their life has turned for the worse. they freely admitted they had their priorities completely out of whack back at the time and are now living with it. A few are completely broken by it....seeing their X move on, find happiness in a new relationship while they have foundered and are now lonely and depressed.


----------



## BluesPower

x598 said:


> nice jab at male's.
> 
> have you ever considered that maybe men don't run off to divorce on a whim because of loyalty, concern for the impact of the divorce on others (especially kids) and arent just thinking solely of themselves, and given that in this case the OP doesnt know 100% the depth of his wife's deceit.......its not a slam dunk, clear cut decision.
> 
> i have spoken to many divorced women who many years later on bitterly regretted their choice to divorce. What seemed like unbearable horrible circumstances they were living in and divorced over.....they figured out down the road the grass wasnt greener and their life has turned for the worse. they freely admitted they had their priorities completely out of whack back at the time and are now living with it. A few are completely broken by it....seeing their X move on, find happiness in a new relationship while they have foundered and are now lonely and depressed.


Yes she jabs at males sometimes, but she is correct with her post. Men are worse about staying in bad marriages period. I think that a bunch of them are just chicken****...


----------



## bandit.45

I have to agree with the Dude on this one. What is there to save here? It is obvious this is a marriage of mutual convenience and nothing more. 

I am usually against "open marriage", but in this instance maybe the best thing OP could do would be to go to his wife and tell her that he knows she is having an affair and that he doesn't really give a rat's ass. He can let her know that she can have her side piece and that he will find a side piece too. As long as she keeps it discreet and doesn't bring the OM around the kids, he will play nice. They can stay married until the kid(s) graduate and then divorce, or they can remain married for life and live out their days as companions and roommates.


----------



## Kamstel

Go talk to your wife’s relative that is one of the top divorce lawyers in the state. Just call him/her at their office and ask if you can stop by.

Tell them a bit about the situation, make it seem like you are coming to them for their advice on the entire situation, do NOT use the word “divorce”’or “separation” until the very end. then ask if it comes to a divorce, would they be willing to represent you. Since your wife is related, they will say no, BUT, since you have contacted them and gave them some idea of what is going on, they, not their firm will be allowed to represent her!!!!

Be proactive!!!


----------



## x598

BluesPower said:


> Yes she jabs at males sometimes, but she is correct with her post. Men are worse about staying in bad marriages period. I think that a bunch of them are just chicken****...


i dont doubt there are men that stay in bad marriages......same as women. and i agree with the poultry comparison although would add that goes both ways too. 

it the 75% thing i have a problem with. 

as an example.... I walked out and left my X and told her we were divorcing. she filed first. does that put me in the 75% wimp club when the divorce was 100% my doing? not trying to make this personal or clear out my own demons....just pointing out that because statistically more women file first.........it doesnt make the male world a bunch of wimps.


----------



## kettle

Thor said:


> The longer you stay married the more you lose in a divorce. Hey, I am the poster child for staying in a marriage for the kids. I did it for over 20 years.
> 
> I expect she will divorce you when the kids are out of the house. Maybe sooner. You need to realize divorce is almost a certainty for you. The longer you wait the more you'll lose.
> 
> Child support is logical. You'll be spending that money anyhow even if you stay married, though the court ordered amount isn't always seemingly fair. And, yes, being divorced means you'll be paying for 100% of your living expenses rather than sharing them with your W (assuming she is earning an income now). But, every penny you earn after the divorce is yours. You can and you will rebuild. The sooner you start rebuilding the better off you'll be.
> 
> If you wait until you're in your 50's, you'll lose half of all your assets in the divorce. It just doesn't leave enough time for you to recover before retirement. If you have a pension, you'll lose half of it to her. Half your 401k, half your IRA. Half your savings. Half the equity in the house.
> 
> The longer you are married the more you will get crushed with paying alimony, if your state allows alimony.
> 
> You are better off to get divorced sooner even though you may have to pay child support.


Good points. Thanks for this. 



One Eighty said:


> I am an attorney. I don't practice anymore but when I did, I did divorces.
> 
> You don't have to retain a lawyer from that firm your W's has a relation working at in order to taint the firm. You merely need to have an initial consultation. Maybe $500. In that consultation you should be prepared to give a lot of details about your finances. That is what taints the firm, typically.
> 
> That being said, it could backfire if the court finds that you did this with the intent that you have. You could be sanctioned for intentionally tainting a firm. I've never seen that happen and I've seen a lot of cases where one spouse was clearly tainting multiple firms. But it is a risk.
> 
> Thor is absolutely right about the spousal support. Talk to an attorney asap to find out what the cut off is for permanent support. Even if you prove she cheated, you still will be obligated to pay permanent support after some number of married years. Child support is of minor concern compared to that obligation.


I definitely need to talk to a lawyer. I don't want anything that could be used against me legally.



VladDracul said:


> Youre pretty much pissing against the wind. She could jettison you and still end up with someone abusive to your daughter. Despite you being there 24/7, your daughter could be abused by any one of a number of people. If you're divorced, you still have the power and authority to act on any abuse that comes to light. Chances are when you were growing up, the law was more lax and neither of your parents gave enough of a crap to step in.


So true. Neither parent gave a **** about it when growing up that is for sure. 



bandit.45 said:


> I have to agree with the Dude on this one. What is there to save here? It is obvious this is a marriage of mutual convenience and nothing more.
> 
> I am usually against "open marriage", but in this instance maybe the best thing OP could do would be to go to his wife and tell her that he knows she is having an affair and that he doesn't really give a rat's ass. He can let her know that she can have her side piece and that he will find a side piece too. As long as she keeps it discreet and doesn't bring the OM around the kids, he will play nice. They can stay married until the kid(s) graduate and then divorce, or they can remain married for life and live out their days as companions and roommates.


This may happen IDK until she and I can talk. For that I need proof.



Kamstel said:


> Go talk to your wife’s relative that is one of the top divorce lawyers in the state. Just call him/her at their office and ask if you can stop by.
> 
> Tell them a bit about the situation, make it seem like you are coming to them for their advice on the entire situation, do NOT use the word “divorce”’or “separation” until the very end. then ask if it comes to a divorce, would they be willing to represent you. Since your wife is related, they will say no, BUT, since you have contacted them and gave them some idea of what is going on, they, not their firm will be allowed to represent her!!!!
> 
> Be proactive!!!


There is no way she would represent me. Good points though.


----------



## Kamstel

Your right, there is no way she will represent you, but you can make sure she doesn’t represent wife! Don’t forget to bring financial info to seal the deal that her and her firm are out of the picture.


----------



## Kamstel

Listen to One Eighty!!!!


----------



## Jharp

kettle said:


> I don't know if I know what I want to be honest.
> I would likely use this as an excuse to exit marriage. Sometimes I want to save marriage other times not.



Dude, It's not my intent to sound like an ******* here, but I think you need a reality check. Before you can decide on a course of action you need to determine what you want from this Marriage first. Cause to continue like what you've explained? That's not fair to her or to yourself.


----------



## VermiciousKnid

Nucking Futs said:


> @VermiciousKnid, would retaining another lawyer at the same firm prevent this relative from representing the ww?


Yes it would. When you retain an attorney that works for a firm, you are a client of the firm, and not any one particular attorney. That would create a conflict of interest and is not allowed.


----------



## kettle

Hi everybody just update. So I have decided, mainly due to cowardice, I am going to stay with my wife for now. I have given myself the excuse I am doing it to protect my children.

Anyway in early January I guess out of the blue my wife said "lets move to town A." I said okay. Now she had never wanted to move to town A in the past. She even said she hated Town A and would never live there. I love Town A. Only place in the world I want to live. So imagine my surprise when all of a sudden she wanted to move there. I just said "fine."

In May on 2019 we finally moved to Town A. My best friend said to me "Dude why would she all of a sudden want to move to Town A. She said she hated it. Sounds like she is running from something." I agreed. He wondered if she had had an affair. I agreed with him totally. 

Anyway we now live in Town A and says she loves it and could not imagine living anywhere else. I just "sure" or something similar. 

She is now overseas with the kids visiting family members. She will be back at the end of the month. Yes I am sure she will be coming back. She says she is happy. In fairness she does seem happier in this town.

Oh and gets better. When we were between houses. That is waiting to move into our new house in Town A I found something interesting. We had to do credit checks. So the bank gave me a copy of hers and mine credit report. She had more than 2,500 on a store credit card she never told me about. She said that was for Christmas and apologized for not telling me. But worse than that was her student loans. Before we married she had 15k in student loans. After she was pregnant she told me it was 30k. Anyway after looking at her credit report it said she has 38k in student loans remaining. Which means she had probably closer to 50k when were married. We married 6 years ago.

Anyway that's where I am at. Thanks all for you input. As I said I am staying as I lack the courage to leave. However, I feel that since you were all kind enough to give your input I wanted to tell you where I am at now. 
I figure if she cheated once, she will do it again.


----------



## Dragan Jovanovic

Well,probably she will. But,you are not going to do anything about it. So,dont torture ypur self. Just let her do what she wants to do and that is it. If you won't demand truth,won't divorce,wont do anything about it,why are you here? Just accept it as it is and live your life like you are living now untill you die of old age. Im not brave eather,but I would rather die that live my live in suspition and agony. So,if I were you,I would divorce her and find some lovely lady who would be a great mother to your douther and a loving wife to you. And you are forgeting one thing. What if she has her next affair with some single guy who wants to be with her,marry her? Then,in that wery moment she would be gone. She will divorce you and be happy with some other guy. Anf you,you will only be older and less atractive then you are now. So,dont be afraid,divorce and find someone to spend a happy life with. Dont torture your self any more. Live is too short to be waisted like that.


----------



## bandit.45

It's your life man. Live it how you want to live it.


----------



## syhoybenden

kettle said:


> I found something interesting. We had to do credit checks. So the bank gave me a copy of hers and mine credit report. She had more than 2,500 on a store credit card she never told me about. She said that was for Christmas and apologized for not telling me. But worse than that was her student loans. Before we married she had 15k in student loans. After she was pregnant she told me it was 30k. Anyway after looking at her credit report it said she has 38k in student loans remaining. Which means she had probably closer to 50k when were married. We married 6 years ago.


Ouch! She has never really been trustworthy, has she?


----------



## MattMatt

kettle said:


> Hi everybody just update. So I have decided, mainly due to cowardice, I am going to stay with my wife for now. I have given myself the excuse I am doing it to protect my children.
> 
> Anyway in early January I guess out of the blue my wife said "lets move to town A." I said okay. Now she had never wanted to move to town A in the past. She even said she hated Town A and would never live there. I love Town A. Only place in the world I want to live. So imagine my surprise when all of a sudden she wanted to move there. I just said "fine."
> 
> In May on 2019 we finally moved to Town A. My best friend said to me "Dude why would she all of a sudden want to move to Town A. She said she hated it. Sounds like she is running from something." I agreed. He wondered if she had had an affair. I agreed with him totally.
> 
> Anyway we now live in Town A and says she loves it and could not imagine living anywhere else. I just "sure" or something similar.
> 
> She is now overseas with the kids visiting family members. She will be back at the end of the month. Yes I am sure she will be coming back. She says she is happy. In fairness she does seem happier in this town.
> 
> Oh and gets better. When we were between houses. That is waiting to move into our new house in Town A I found something interesting. We had to do credit checks. So the bank gave me a copy of hers and mine credit report. She had more than 2,500 on a store credit card she never told me about. She said that was for Christmas and apologized for not telling me. But worse than that was her student loans. Before we married she had 15k in student loans. After she was pregnant she told me it was 30k. Anyway after looking at her credit report it said she has 38k in student loans remaining. Which means she had probably closer to 50k when were married. We married 6 years ago.
> 
> Anyway that's where I am at. Thanks all for you input. As I said I am staying as I lack the courage to leave. However, I feel that since you were all kind enough to give your input I wanted to tell you where I am at now.
> I figure if she cheated once, she will do it again.


She can't be trusted. On anything.

Protect yourself, protect your children.


----------



## samyeagar

kettle said:


> Hi everybody just update. So I have decided, mainly due to cowardice, I am going to stay with my wife for now. I have given myself the excuse I am doing it to protect my children.
> 
> Anyway in early January I guess out of the blue my wife said "lets move to town A." I said okay. Now she had never wanted to move to town A in the past. She even said she hated Town A and would never live there. I love Town A. Only place in the world I want to live. So imagine my surprise when all of a sudden she wanted to move there. I just said "fine."
> 
> In May on 2019 we finally moved to Town A. My best friend said to me "Dude why would she all of a sudden want to move to Town A. She said she hated it. *Sounds like she is running from something*." I agreed. He wondered if she had had an affair. I agreed with him totally.
> 
> Anyway we now live in Town A and says she loves it and could not imagine living anywhere else. I just "sure" or something similar.
> 
> She is now overseas with the kids visiting family members. She will be back at the end of the month. Yes I am sure she will be coming back. She says she is happy. In fairness she does seem happier in this town.
> 
> Oh and gets better. When we were between houses. That is waiting to move into our new house in Town A I found something interesting. We had to do credit checks. So the bank gave me a copy of hers and mine credit report. She had more than 2,500 on a store credit card she never told me about. She said that was for Christmas and apologized for not telling me. But worse than that was her student loans. Before we married she had 15k in student loans. After she was pregnant she told me it was 30k. Anyway after looking at her credit report it said she has 38k in student loans remaining. Which means she had probably closer to 50k when were married. We married 6 years ago.
> 
> Anyway that's where I am at. Thanks all for you input. As I said I am staying as I lack the courage to leave. However, I feel that since you were all kind enough to give your input I wanted to tell you where I am at now.
> I figure if she cheated once, she will do it again.


Or running TO something...or someone...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I was just about to post a thread and see you read and posted in it. Go back, read it again and notice the biggest defenders are not the children, it is the parents who believe it worked.


----------



## ConanHub

If other men are parking their cars in your garage, at least charge for it.....


----------



## Robert22205

Give her a new iphone and sync it to the family apple tablet.

Perhaps you could get her to sign a post nup.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

samyeagar said:


> Or running TO something...or someone...


Exactly my thought.


----------



## Buffer

Brother, glad to see the update, but really what has changed other than location?
Still unsure if she and the paramedic fly boy did proceed to a PA. Still content to be in a relationship that you state you are only remaining in for your little one.
Is there no room in your marriage for what you want or need out of the marriage?
Either way, take care, look after DD as well as yourself. At least get Your spouse to give you a accurate account of her outstanding credit debt including her student loans. You don’t want to end up bankrupt.

Buffer


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Kettle,

Your posts remind me of a song by Steve Warriner, “Some Fools Never Learn”........ my last advice to you is to listen to some of the season posters on here. Hell at this point simply ask her about Cute Copter Boy. Tell her someone from your work told me you were carrying on with him....watch her reaction. Then pose one question to her “Why?”.


----------



## Cynthia

kettle said:


> Anyway that's where I am at. Thanks all for you input. As I said I am staying as I lack the courage to leave. However, I feel that since you were all kind enough to give your input I wanted to tell you where I am at now.
> I figure if she cheated once, she will do it again.


Courage is not inborn. Courage is something that can be acquired. You seem to place a low value on yourself. That can also be changed.

Are you in individual counseling (IC)? If not, I think it is imperative that you find a counselor that you connect with who can help you to grow in recognizing your value as a human being and to gain courage. This is not so you can leave your marriage, but so you can grow and be a man who is happy being you and able to set healthy boundaries in relationships, not only with your wife, but all around you. You don't have to live like this forever. It can be a temporary situation. Don't resign yourself to a life of misery. Learn and grow.


----------



## Lostinthought61

my fear is that you are rewarding her for bad behavior so while you may want to stay for the kids sake why must you let her behavior badly and get away with it...not sure i understand at all.


----------



## VladDracul

Looks like old Kettle accepted his lot in life and he's making the best out of his situation. When your wife starts talking about the cute big guy who is 5-8 and weighs 148 lbs its already too late. When he talked about his V-stretcher, he wasn't referring to medical equipment.


----------



## kettle

Buffer said:


> Brother, glad to see the update, but really what has changed other than location?
> Still unsure if she and the paramedic fly boy did proceed to a PA. Still content to be in a relationship that you state you are only remaining in for your little one.
> Is there no room in your marriage for what you want or need out of the marriage?
> Either way, take care, look after DD as well as yourself. At least get Your spouse to give you a accurate account of her outstanding credit debt including her student loans. You don’t want to end up bankrupt.
> 
> Buffer


Nothing has changed other than location TBH. Your points are on point.



No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Kettle,
> 
> Your posts remind me of a song by Steve Warriner, “Some Fools Never Learn”........ my last advice to you is to listen to some of the season posters on here. Hell at this point simply ask her about Cute Copter Boy. Tell her someone from your work told me you were carrying on with him....watch her reaction. Then pose one question to her “Why?”.


This is a good idea about saying somebody from work mentioned him and her to me. I know an old army buddy who works for the same company. He may even know him. I think I know who the guy maybe after looking online. I am not 100% certain.



Cynthia said:


> Courage is not inborn. Courage is something that can be acquired. You seem to place a low value on yourself. That can also be changed.
> 
> Are you in individual counseling (IC)? If not, I think it is imperative that you find a counselor that you connect with who can help you to grow in recognizing your value as a human being and to gain courage. This is not so you can leave your marriage, but so you can grow and be a man who is happy being you and able to set healthy boundaries in relationships, not only with your wife, but all around you. You don't have to live like this forever. It can be a temporary situation. Don't resign yourself to a life of misery. Learn and grow.


Good points and I need to be counseling. You are right.



Lostinthought61 said:


> my fear is that you are rewarding her for bad behavior so while you may want to stay for the kids sake why must you let her behavior badly and get away with it...not sure i understand at all.


You are right. I am absolutely rewarding her bad behavior. 



VladDracul said:


> Looks like old Kettle accepted his lot in life and he's making the best out of his situation. When your wife starts talking about the cute big guy who is 5-8 and weighs 148 lbs its already too late. When he talked about his V-stretcher, he wasn't referring to medical equipment.


You are right. Although, I think, not sure that I may know who the guy is now after looking online. If so he is big and good looking. Funny thing was before we were married we had a huge argument and I though 'F' this. I am done. I walked out of the apartment at the time. I thought, I better wait and see if she is pregnant. A week later she took a test and she was. I put on a happy face, inside I about crumpled up as I knew I would stay with her.


----------



## Chaparral

So this started the middle of August and you still do not know what’s going on with helicopter boy? You literally have just been spinning your wheels? I’m confused.


----------



## TAMAT

Although the thread is a bit confusing I think that is due to his WW lying about everything, and as a result it is making the poster feel and act crazy, since he can no longer believe reality. 

I do feel for him when his WW is in a foreign country with the kids God only knows what she is actually doing there spending money possibly on men or something.


----------



## Robert22205

Under the circumstances it appears she moved to the new city to get away from someone - or to be near to someone.

You focused attention on the OM because of the gift of company logo clothing and she talked about him.
If she was having an affair, the fly boy may just be a misdirect to draw your attention away from some other man.

Although you have reason to be suspicious, I strongly suggest that you do not confront or show any change in your behavior towards her.
If she suspects you're suspicious she'll go underground with apps that auto delete messages or use a burner phone.

Let us know how she behaves after she returns. Does her work schedule give her opportunity to cheat? Does she pull away from you? Does she text constantly and hides the screen from you?


----------



## In Absentia

I don't get it... not the first time... :laugh: The OP is staying in the marriage just for his kid... so, why does he care about the OM? :scratchhead:


----------



## Tilted 1

kettle said:


> .
> Good points and I need to be counseling. You are right.
> .


You need to be more assertive, and when you ask the hard question of yourself, why am l being a doormat. Because staying for the kids is just not worth it to live in shame like your are doing wringing your hands wondering what can I do so l don't feel bad. Get a grip on this.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

In Absentia said:


> I don't get it... not the first time... :laugh: The OP is staying in the marriage just for his kid... so, why does he care about the OM? :scratchhead:


It affects his life, even if he just remains for the kid.


----------



## In Absentia

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It affects his life, even if he just remains for the kid.


if they are not together - officially or not - then she can do what she likes... if they are not officially separated, then this is the time to make it official.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

In Absentia said:


> I don't get it... not the first time... :laugh: The OP is staying in the marriage just for his kid... so, why does he care about the OM? :scratchhead:


I responded to this post. 



In Absentia said:


> if they are not together - officially or not - then she can do what she likes... if they are not officially separated, then this is the time to make it official.


I’m not chasing moving goalposts, but you are wrong because it isn’t this cut and dry.


----------



## hilariouslaughter

You don't get to complain about the life you choose. This is the life you are choosing.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Your post is one year and five months. I glanced your past posts, not all, but just a few, but I see nothing in it related to infidelity. Marriage issues, not infidelity.

The current (August 2018) thread was that your wife accepted a gift of promotional items from a guy, and the same guy said she could get a ride in his company's helicopter. The worst part to me is her using the word "cute" describing the guy.

I personally don't see much wrong here. That very possibly could be because I have no context about other past infidelities of your wife, or her past crushes on other men. But if I work with someone for a number of years, even straight guys, a guy might give another guy a "gift" like the one your wife was given. The gifts were freebies, like a duffel bag, promotional items. The items cost the guy nothing. If he knew your wife liked flying, he might have given them her not thinking anything in return. I was at a ballgame, between me and my guests we got a bunch of bobbleheads of a team we aren't fans of, there is a guy at work who likes that team, and I gave a bunch of them to him. I don't think he would describe me as "cute," but then again, I've heard many women describe guys as "cute" or even "hot" and are not planning to cheat. Of course maybe your wife hid the gifts from you, or maybe you've found out she has been texting the guy, etc., that is, maybe there's other circumstances you haven't posted or I have not read them.

Did your wife ever cheat that you know of? Why do you think she would? I know your wife was unhappy and you were unhappy and you both spoke about divorcing, and both are staying for the kids. I don't know if you are having sex, if you say to each other "I love you," if there is any romance in the marriage, if you generally get along, if you like each other's personalities, etc.

You mention staying with her because of the child. Why would you leave her if you had no child? Infidelity? Some other issue?


----------



## TDSC60

Wait. You had a big argument and walked out right before you found out she was pregnant?

DNA the kid.

Her being argumentative could have been associated with an affair at that time.


----------



## kettle

TDSC60 said:


> Wait. You had a big argument and walked out right before you found out she was pregnant?
> 
> DNA the kid.
> 
> Her being argumentative could have been associated with an affair at that time.


The child is definitely mine. When I say I walked out, I walked out of the room but came back in. The child is a spitting image. Granted I could be wrong, but she even looks like my grate aunty and dad.

Good point about the arguing.

I was insane. She was out of a 2 year relationship 6 weeks before we started dating. I knew better than that. 

She is on vacatoin right now. When she returns I am going to ask her about the cheating. I don't have proof and I cant be bothered looking any. I have my gut instincts. Something else I though of today. Most of the guys she worked with at the hospital she came home and talked them using their names. She had no problems talking about her male colleagues using their names.

More than that one of my old army buddies works for the medical flight outfit this "big cute guy" works at. She had no problem using his name
There is is only one person whose name she never used when she talked about him and that was "big cute guy."

Do I really need more proof? I doubt it. When she returns from vacation I am going to have it our with her. One us will break. Either I will admit I was wrong, or she will admit she was wrong. I am sick of living in lies, both mine and hers. She and I can do better than that I hope.


----------



## Andy1001

kettle said:


> The child is definitely mine. When I say I walked out, I walked out of the room but came back in. The child is a spitting image. Granted I could be wrong, but she even looks like my grate aunty and dad.
> 
> Good point about the arguing.
> 
> I was insane. She was out of a 2 year relationship 6 weeks before we started dating. I knew better than that.
> 
> She is on vacatoin right now. When she returns I am going to ask her about the cheating. I don't have proof and I cant be bothered looking any. I have my gut instincts. Something else I though of today. Most of the guys she worked with at the hospital she came home and talked them using their names. She had no problems talking about her male colleagues using their names.
> 
> More than that one of my old army buddies works for the medical flight outfit this "big cute guy" works at. She had no problem using his name
> There is is only one person whose name she never used when she talked about him and that was "big cute guy."
> 
> Do I really need more proof? I doubt it. When she returns from vacation I am going to have it our with her. One us will break. Either I will admit I was wrong, or she will admit she was wrong. I am sick of living in lies, both mine and hers. She and I can do better than that I hope.


If you’re wife is attracted to a certain type of man then it’s possible that her affair partner resembles you. And by using dna to confirm that your daughter is really yours you’re letting your wife know that you don’t trust her an inch. Which you shouldn’t.


----------



## syhoybenden

kettle said:


> The child is definitely mine. When I say I walked out, I walked out of the room but came back in. The child is a spitting image ... correction ... " the very spit and image". Granted I could be wrong, but she even looks like my grate aunty and dad.t
> 
> .


 My nitpick aside, LOOKS don't count! You are seeing what you want to see! 

Get a home DNA kit and do cheek swabs of you and the child.


----------



## kettle

syhoybenden said:


> My nitpick aside, LOOKS don't count! You are seeing what you want to see!
> 
> Get a home DNA kit and do cheek swabs of you and the child.


I can indeed do that. Would not take much.


----------



## Thor

kettle said:


> She is on vacatoin right now. When she returns I am going to ask her about the cheating. I don't have proof and I cant be bothered looking any. I have my gut instincts.


She will lie. Your gut is more reliable than her word.

Tbh, you have no way to know whether she is telling the truth. If she denies any kind of affair you have no proof otherwise. If she admits to a little something, maybe a bit of a crush but no actions taken, you have no way to verify it. If she admits an affair you have no way to verify she has told you everything. She could be totally innocent or totally guilty of cheating on you. Cheaters lie, deny, deflect, and turn it back on the betrayed. Chances of her admitting an affair is just about zero. Which means her denials are meaningless.


----------



## cp3o

kettle said:


> The child is definitely mine. .......The child is a spitting image. Granted I could be wrong, but she even looks like my grate aunty and dad.


Without expressing an opinion on your biological relationship with your daughter...............

I recently read an article whose author stated that it is a world-wide phenomenon, across all cultures, that a newborn's female relatives will point out the child's physical similarities to the "father". "He's got his eyes - your nose - grandad's chin" etc..

The writer drew the conclusion that this is an inherited trait which tends to bond the "father" with the child and therefore increase the likelihood of the mother being supported through the child's early life.

Apparently, though there may be co-incidental similarities earlier, a child's facial features are extremely malleable and don't settle down to a stable appearance until they are ten years old. By which time, evolutionarily, father's presence is less important.


----------



## Rob_1

@cp3o. 100% correct. This is not a matter of if, maybe, could be. That is a female's ace in the sleeve since the first humans. This would allow a female genetic diversity while securing a man's protection/provider.
Infants and small children phenotypic characteristics are very malleable, specially, because there's only a finite amount of phenotypic characteristics in humans from which all genetic traits show at specific growth moments. 

Therefore, people (specially men) who thinks that she/he looks just like me are nothing but, ignorant fools who don't know better. 

It's all in your head. That's why you see as a joke the pictures of men/women with their dog that looks like then. Perceptions, perceptions my friend, not reality. If anyone wants to know that their child is theirs, there's only one way: DNA testing. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

Even women that have raised a child as their own had gotten the shock of their life when years/decades later they find out that the child was switch at birth and it's not their biological child. Imagine that.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Why is your wife on vacation without you? Can your buddy to check to see if "big cute guy" in on shift?


Every man is positive his kid is his ... until he isn't.


----------



## RandomDude

Think your wife and yourself need to have a talk about boundaries, and if she doesn't wish to comply the marriage can not be saved regardless if anything happened or not.

Vacations without you, dates with other men, financial infidelity, just doesn't spell healthy marriage to me.


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## TheDudeLebowski

OP you said you don't even want to be with her, yet you want to hold her hostage. Sort of makes you a POS. You are checked out, and require that she stays 100% committed to you. I mean, hope she is getting properly banged by someone who desires her. If you are only staying for the kids, you dont love her. So I don't feel sorry for you if she cheats.


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## Decorum

I dont even look at TAM much anymore, but I saw your update. Hopefully if she did anything it was a one off and you guys will be happy going forward, assuming you will not be "ate up" by the unanswered questions.

That scenario would definitely be in the minority, but if that is your choice I wish you all the best.

I just ran across this testimony today on reddit and I thought some at TAM might benefit from this ladies perspective, and I think this is a good spot to post it.

This is not a slam against you Kettle, I really do hope it works out for you.

But maybe if you face this again you will find some insight in it, and hopefully it will give others something to think about. reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/ev11dw/my_husband_saved_our_marriage

"I (32F) came close. So close to making the biggest mistake of my life. I wanted to share my story to hopefully give those questioning infidelity to have the courage to go nuclear on their suspicions.

One year ago I began being very close to a coworker. I was having feelings for him and I know he was with me. We began texting frequently (not sexual). We were sneaking around meeting each other. All emotional. Never physical. Believe me I wanted it.

My husband became suspicious of my cell phone use. Being gone a lot more. Working late. Being distant. Excuses for not being intimate, etc. As is his approach, calmly questioned me. Never mad, never untrusting. I always had an answer. I thought I was playing this right.

Out on nowhere, he confronted me. Only said he was moving out, and planning to leave. This was after 7 years of marriage and two toddlers. His words.....” You’ve checked out and I am not waiting around to be cheated on. You’re clearly not committed to your family or me.” I tried to spin things and make excuses, etc. He said (paraphrase) “ I don’t have evidence, I follow my gut. I have known you for 10 years and I know what’s going on. Please do not make this worse by lying.”

So he literally moved out. Left me, the kids, took all his clothes and many belongings and was gone.

The first week I was worried and scared. I talked to my AP and he was supportive but at the same time calling my husband unstable, immature. Belittling him. I was confused.

This continued, the next week. Completely blacked out by my husband. I was so distraught. AP kept spinning this in a positive light. Good for me to move on, etc. 

By the third week, I could not sleep at all. Could not eat. Could not function. My AP called and it was like I was hit with a bat. I told him I need to work on my marriage. I told him I did not have another second of my time to spend on him. Every bit of me needs to be focused on my husband and our marriage. I never felt better.

It took me a day, but I mustered the courage to send my husband a text. I admitted to having feelings. Came clean with my lying and told him the whole truth. I poured my guts out. 

He eventually agreed to move back and with a lot of counseling things have gotten beyond better. I am the wife and mother I wanted and need to be.

So here’s my message to those who have suspicions. Don’t wait until you have an iron clad case. Trust your gut and take action. Draw a line in the sand and stay firm. I thank God everyday for giving my husband the courage to act swiftly, and decisively- to give me a wake up call. Honestly, my trauma lingers from realizing how close I came to ruining my life and the lives of those I care most about. I lie awake at night thinking about it and how my husband is my true hero.

Please, please don’t tip toe around this. It pains me to read when people know what’s going on but need iron clad evidence to have the courage to confront. "


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## Robert22205

You're not alone nor are you the first to walk this path. Check in when you are able to.


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## syhoybenden

He hasn't signed in here since his last post.

Must have been some interesting "welcome home dear".

Cowed into submission, you think?


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## manwithnoname

I must need a hobby. I just searched to see if there is a TAM member named Pot, so I could introduce the OP to them.


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## mickybill

Possibly in shock.
Or in hysterical bonding land.


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## MattMatt

How's it going, @kettle?


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