# 3-Sums... sexual Hypocrisy... and jealousy/open-minded-ness



## confoozed (May 3, 2009)

Here is the situation... Which may be typical, but Ive yet to find info specifically relevant. 

My fiance', aside from other issues there is the question of limits of sexual exploration. We are indeed "creative" at times, but the standing issue is her view of 3 sums..and mine.

Now of course, here is where I am the hypocrite. I am perfectly ok with the idea of including another female, but hell no with including the other male. Before anyone verbally attacks me, I know... Im all about equal rights etc.. BUT.. it just is different to me, and thats what I was curious about with your opinions. 

Now we are considering one of these days soon... couple months or so exploring voyeurism, etc. Maybe attending a swingers party..but just watch. to "see how we feel"... 

Now of course, it will be like a real live porn, so its inevitable to be turned on. For both of us. The idea is arousing itself, so its just fair to assume. 

When I have brought up the subject, with my hypocratic angle to it, she always part candidly states.."well.. if you want two woman...what about me having two men?"... Always said with a smirk, but I can sense the sincerity of the question. Trying to explain to her about how I feel...etc.. She has mentioned before that...."well... we just haven't reached that level of love where as sexual endeavors is just that"...

Implying that Im either too closed minded..and old school, and that i dont love her strong enough yet?? 

Tell me please....

Any guys or gals know of that "level"?

Of love, where as you have NO bad feelings...nor jealousy..Nor anger... when you see your wife with another man?


Dont get me wrong...the sexual...down and dirty thought, of sharing a woman.... using.. (respectfully) etc... is intriguing.. never done it... but I can see the intrigue.. 

BUT whenever I have attempted to fantasize about such with the fiance in mind....

Its weird... her being pleased... is partially exciting... BUT...realizing another man inside of her.... turns my stomach...

call me closed minded... or a hypocrit... whatever...but I just KNOW that if we ever had that... 4 some... 3 some..etc..

and I saw HER giving Oral to another man...

I dont think I could marry her... i feel near sick even thinking about it....

Sorry for the rant, but can anyone throw other perspectives at me... Ive always consider myself "open-minded" and progressive but with this.... Im having trouble figuring it out...

What do you think I should do?

Or not do?

I appreciate 
ideas... advice... 
thank you ahead of time...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

confoozed-

You are emotionally immature, and not ready for marriage, let alone 3somes!


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## confoozed (May 3, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> confoozed-
> 
> You are emotionally immature, and not ready for marriage, let alone 3somes!


Ok, so your implying that being or not being ok with another man's "member" in the mouth of the woman you kiss every night is in fact...

a determinate of one's level of emotional maturity?


Please do explain..

ps
pretty hugh claim to make of someone you hardly know..


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

OK, so I was a little rough on you!



confoozed said:


> Ok, so your implying that being or not being ok with another man's "member" in the mouth of the woman you kiss every night is in fact...
> 
> a determinate of one's level of emotional maturity?


No. It's the fact that you want it one way round but not the other, and you have not thought through the emotional implications for your future wife. She may well let you get away with it, but longer term... the resentment will build up and she will gradually go off you unless she is able to forgive you. Forgiveness is in short supply these days, however.


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## confoozed (May 3, 2009)

I know, hence the hypocrisy... but maybe I failed to explain my point, in that ramble..

She is ok with the idea of including other partners...

and Im not...

Does that mean Im immature in the sense of emotional evolvment? Or just ...what it is..
How i feel about the topic..

Secondly, If she is ok and more for the idea... generally... than why would there be resentment on her part?

and I do agree... forgiveness is indeed rationed commodity these days...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

confoozed said:


> If she is ok and more for the idea... generally... than why would there be resentment on her part?


I am guessing that she would go along with an FMF as a down-payment in order to get an MFM which is what makes her really hot. So if you only go along with the FMF, she will feel cheated! Sorry, I don't make the rules - but this sort of thing happens all the time.


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## confoozed (May 3, 2009)

honestly, I am certain she is equally interested in both FMF and MFM.. i know what your saying, but Im certain that she has the attraction/intrigue towards another woman.
I know me being ok with one and not the other...isnt fair...

and I think i will stay away from both dramas for the sake of future relationship problems.. 

It just bothers me that she has this idea that I may not have reached that "level of love and trust" in order to feel comfortable with her being with another guy... with me... as if its a higher level of involvement..

is this bull****? or am dillusional or just too old fashioned?

i know im beating a dead horse, but this clarity your helping me get is getting rid of a couple year long idea that keeps haunting me...

I appreciate your advice by the way... even though I was getting a bit defensive at first..


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

confoozed said:


> It just bothers me that she has this idea that I may not have reached that "level of love and trust" in order to feel comfortable with her being with another guy... with me... as if its a higher level of involvement..


I would have no problem with it if my wife wanted to try it once, and the guy was not too clingy, and it was guaranteed safe - no STDs. I fail to see what there is to be jealous of.

Having said al that, it's playing with fire, and probably best avoided


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## peaches (Apr 26, 2009)

Tell me please....
Any guys or gals know of that "level"?

Of love, where as you have NO bad feelings...nor jealousy..Nor anger... when you see your wife with another man?

------------------------------------------------------------

Well I can tell you for me I would have to be at a level of NO love to not care about my husband being with someone else.
Can you think of someone you've dated that you wouldn't care if they did another guy in front of you? How much did you love them? was it a "higher level" of love?

You said you wouldn't want to marry her if you saw her giving another guy oral-that sounds like even if you can get yourself to go along you'll never really be ok with it. And she seems to really want to do it.


If you do it, you will never get the picture of her enjoying sex w/another guy out of your mind.

You should figure this out before you marry.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Neither you nor your wife understands sex in marriage to be contemplating this at all.


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## confoozed (May 3, 2009)

michzz said:


> Neither you nor your wife understands sex in marriage to be contemplating this at all.


So Im assuming you mean that if you "understood" sex...in marriage... then openmindness wouldnt matter?

I am confused. Could you ellaborate..?


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## They Call Me Smooth (May 5, 2009)

I think you are insecure which is why it's ok for your soon to be wife to have to kiss you every day after you have another womans private part all over your face but not ok for your to kiss her after she has given oral to a man.

The truth is you aren't secure enough to be trying a threesome with anyone. The moment you wife lets out a moan from the other woman you are going to be thinking she enjoyed her more then you. 

And for the record, fantasies are always better then reality. I doubt you threesome will be the mind blowing experience you think it will be. This is come from past experience.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

confoozed said:


> So Im assuming you mean that if you "understood" sex...in marriage... then openmindness wouldnt matter?
> 
> I am confused. Could you ellaborate..?


Do not confuse open-mindedness with having no boundaries regarding sex in marriage. Promiscuity has no place in a committed marriage. i presume you both took vows of faithfulness to each other? Was it in a church before God, your family, and your friends?

I'm not going to preach to you. I really do not care if you two are nailing anything that moves -- or not.

However, within the confines of marriage, introducing others into bed is plain wrong.

If the two of you understood that, you would not be contemplating this at all.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Mark and I are probably the most "open Minded" people on here, and I agree with Mark.

You are not ready for this, both young and immature.

I don't even think you two should get married anytime soon.

not going into details, but swinging needs 110% trust, open communication and complete openess.

It is clear you could not handle a 3some.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

OK, so Mark, GA and I are probably the most "open Minded" people on here and I agree with them. People are way to hung up on sex and that includes you. Your "hypocrasy" is your wake up call that this is something that you are not ready for. My guess is that you're carrying around the baggage of your upbringing and socialization. When you have been able to liberate yourself from these influences and create your own foundation, then, maybe, you'll be ready to think about this. And this assumes your partner has also come to the same level of conscious evolution.


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## confoozed (May 3, 2009)

GAsoccerman said:


> Mark and I are probably the most "open Minded" people on here, and I agree with Mark.
> 
> You are not ready for this, both young and immature.
> 
> ...


Well, i agree with alot of what you all are saying, but disagree with a portion as well... That part mostly because you know nothing of me but a few posts and a created internet ID handle..

So defensive I wont be, I agree that I have emotional baggage of sorts, (but who hasnt)... but as far as my socialization... Its very healthy.. upbringing... morally sound and solid.

If you all have forgotten, the whole reason Im posting is because Im actively exploring these thoughts so that I could make some clarity of it. Just seeking understanding.

Of course I would never be in someone else crotch and not expect her to feel any effect..emotional..etc..
Im confused about a few things but Im not a complete idiot. Personally, I always thought, rather felt love to be of possessing an exclusive love...desire...and commitment to one person. 

Where Im confused, is two part. 

I know u all like to speculate, but as far as whats going on within my own heart...good luck.. I myself am still figuring things out and frankly... of course i know myself better than you. Your advice I do appreciate..and still welcome... but well.. help me..
understand how swinging is such the "higher level" deeper...more meaningful evolved phase of love...

Is that some sort of universal belief? If so, that would imply that the vast majority of marriages that dont swing... are just no where near there fulfilling their capacity to love?

and Im not young... with a few things... and very very old with a few others...

but what I do know is that I love this woman...truely...madly...deeply... and I just want to know how to better myself to evolve with her even more...

hence one of the reasons Im on this site... to better myself...educate...grow even more..etc...

and yes...I talk more then I mean... in retrospect.. ive realized that I couldnt do even the FMF, I would like to think about being ok with it, but ill admit...in logical thinking of the issue...i couldnt.

but I feel...she ...having a different mindset...could..FMF..or MFM... 

what to do?

and be fair, and assume that there is a possibility that the "swinging" level of love ideology , although support by most of those replied... may indeed be just a minorities view...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

confoozed said:


> but well.. help me..
> understand how swinging is such the "higher level" deeper...more meaningful evolved phase of love...


I want to go slowly here because I don't want to be misunderstood by the majority of readers here. I don't think swinging is a higher achievement than monogamy.

However, I am from the school that believes that if you really love something or someone, you have to set it/them free.

So if you can rise above jealousy and envy, and only consider the spiritual and health issues of 3somes when deciding whether to go ahead, that indicates maturity.

However, recognising the other persons security issues as well as your own also indicates maturity.

So to sum up - love reaches it's peak when there is zero possessiveness. 



They Call Me Smooth said:


> And for the record, fantasies are always better then reality. I doubt you threesome will be the mind blowing experience you think it will be. This is come from past experience.


So true...


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> So to sum up - love reaches it's peak when there is zero possessiveness.
> 
> 
> So true...


Well said.

I'm also not saying that a more open relationship is a better or more evolved relationship. I'm simply saying that it is an option that some decide to explore. If you go down that path you'd better have thought it out on your own and with your partner. You'd better have worked out all the issues and created a logical framework for what you both agree to do. (I always find in interesting to hear the guy say he'd be up for FMF but not MFM. His ego usually hasn't considered the possibility of his girl deciding she'd really rather be in a FF relationship 

You've decided that you'd rather not share her with anyone but you're feeling that she is more open to the possibilities. This is something that you both will have to communicate on over time. It may be something that works out on its own (her curiousity might lessen or your feelings might change) or it might become a compatibility issue for the relationship.

Also, for the record, fantasies are sometimes better then reality, sometimes equal to reality and sometimes reality is even better....from experience.


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## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

confoozed said:


> Ok, so your implying that being or not being ok with another man's "member" in the mouth of the woman you kiss every night is in fact...
> 
> a determinate of one's level of emotional maturity?


As a gauge of emotional maturity it's actually a pretty good one.

I've heard it from guys in the past, talking about getting blowjobs but not wanting one from the mother of their children.

Some men think the act is dirty, they think the woman that perfoms it is ****ty but they of course are just being men so that's okay.

There's always tell tale signs of guys that are like that, they're prudish yet sexually aggressive at the same time. The best thing to do is avoid them like the plague.


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## confoozed (May 3, 2009)

ok... I will graciously take the double-standard issue.. where as I am wrong for such...

and even partially the lack of emotional maturity.... in reference to having the double standard.... mostly... but I wont ramble about that right now..


Simply;;

Why the hell is it bad... to be emotionally... physiologically, spiritually.... exclusive???

I mean.. no offense.. but just because a handful of forum posters say one thing..doesnt mean its carved in stone... 

Explain ...if you would humor me... without taking jabs either... to me how i am so bad...? (and forthe record... not everyone is reading what I write the way I meant to imply... I will not have a FMF even if she begged>>because i would feel horrible... honestly... )..

And for the record... you can never guage a persons level of maturity... by definition... with such little information known... so... chillax a bit if you guys would... im looking for support and education... not ridicule and name calling...

oy..


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Confoozed.

I'll put it this way for you...

my wife and I have been together for 20 years basically. We have talked and discussed, threesomes mmf ffm, also couple swapping.

we even have gone as far as gone to a swigers club, we found out, we like to watch and be watched, but not "swing"

That while we enjoyed the fantasy, it is not something we could handle.

but we did find out the thrill of being watched and wathcing others was a turn on for us.

Many couples that have tried threesomes ahve done for the wrong reasons, to try and "strengthen" their relationship when something was wrong with it.

Any "real" swingers" will tell you there has to be ground rules and strict guidelines and both participants have to be 110% committed to the lifestyle....if just one of them is and the other is doing it to please them, not going to happen or work out.

my wife and i have explored this for about the last 5 years, the first 15...not a chance.

Do as you wish, but if you get jealous at all, then I would stay away from it, if you can not be open to ANY scerio, I would not do it. Most women would LOVE a MMF, that are interested in this lifestyle, or more men, I've seen it all.

While I've dreamed of a MFF it will never happen. But it still is a great dream


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

confoozed said:


> I will not have a FMF even if she begged>>because i would feel horrible... honestly... )..


To be fair, I did not understand that so clearly form your very first post. So what you seem to be saying -and please correct me if I am wrong- is that you would rather not have a 3some at all, but if you did it would have to be an FMF, as an MFM is out of the question.

Well, that's fair enough! So I take back what I said about your maturity  Please forgive me. 

Having said all that, my general point that to really love someone you have to set them free still stands. I do worry about one thing however: If your g/f really wants to do this, and won't be talked out of it, or won't stop mentioning it periodically, then you may have a future problem: If you give her what she wants, you may feel abused. And if you don't give in, she will feel resentful that you did not fulfil one of her fantasies. I am guessing that she wants to do all this before you guys get married, on the basis that it's not the sort of thing married people should do, but it's alright for experimenting pre-marrieds.

It's a tough call, and makes me think you need to question how suited you are. What often happens is that women of her type start off very sexually open minded, and then gradually shut down if their hubby is perceived by them as "square". But their sexuality does not go anywhere, it merely lies dormant beneath the surface. Then one day they spy a "bad boy" type, and start wondering about spicing things up without hubby knowing... I am not saying you are square by the way. "Normal" would be a better word. However, if anybody called me normal, I would take it as an insult, so apologies in advance


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> While I've dreamed of a MFF it will never happen. But it still is a great dream


GA-
Are you saying she would jump at the chance of an MFM?


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

No mark, my wife has said if she would ever have a 3some it would be a FFM, even though I think she would really enjoy a MMF just from how she is sexually.

But it will remain a fantasy, This is not something my wife could handle, not the "deed" but the after effect.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> No mark, my wife has said if she would ever have a 3some it would be a FFM, even though I think she would really enjoy a MMF just from how she is sexually.


Yes, it's really hard to get the truth out of them! Just watch the difference in how much her pupils dilate depending on whether you whisper MFM or FMF 

But yes, all this sort of thing works great as a fantasy. It's fun to make them squirm with delight with dirty talk, but the fun can soon evaporate if you try to make it a reality - so I hear.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

agreed Mark, but I have to tell you she was a NO NO NO on going to the swinger club.

But I have to tell you after she got there and was "there" she became one horny little girl.

I often tell her I know her better then she knows herself.

Also that one experiment I did, went rather well, she really enjoyed it, much to my surprise


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## Icee (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm with the other "open minded" people here. I think Shoto1984 makes an excellent point. Let go of upbringing and socialization and then maybe you could potentially consider a 3/4sum. It's a lot to consider and you should thoroughly discuss with your fiancee prior to getting married. Maybe she thinks you are on the road to this type of relationship and you may decide you're not and this might be a deal breaker for her. Be up front, honest, and very real... it's obvious she loves you, and trusts/feels safe with you if she would consider any of this, but it needs to be a two way street.


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## olwhatsisname (Dec 5, 2012)

but let patience have its perfect work, that YOU may be perfect and complete lacking nothing. James:1:4. & wisdom will be given to you. maybe you shouldn't open that can of worms ??
share a life,grow from that. I am not back handing you. most cant handle your couriosity.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I hope that four years is enough time to resove the issue. 

Zombie thread 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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