# To contact OM from years ago, or not?



## hubbydude

Hey there, appreciate any advise...

Been married for 13 years, together for 19, two kids. Marriage has had ups and downs (who's hasn't?) but currently in a good spot.

Way back in the early days of our relationship when we were both younger and immature there was an incident of infidelity on her part. She told me about it (she didn't have to, I had no idea) and insists she didn't have sex with the OM, but they did share a bed and there was some touching / feeling ect. Needless to say, this has been a thorn in our relationship ever since, and even now it still bothers me. And needless to say, I'm not convinced they didn't have sex.

Thing is, the OM has appeared on Facebook so I now have an opportunity to ask him if he slept with my wife 18 years ago while we were dating?

Should I contact him or not?


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## warlock07

Not entirely relevant to the question you asked but you almost seem to be grateful that she chose to confess her infidelity to you even if she did not have to and it was a favor on her end to do that..


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## MattMatt

No. Nac oes, geen, neniu, no se, nein, non!

The answer's the same in any language.


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## 3putt

MattMatt said:


> No. Nac oes, geen, neniu, no se, nein, non!
> 
> The answer's the same in any language.


Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later, but I disagree with you, Matt.

This has bothered him to the point that 18 _*years*_ later he is still seeking the truth. You know what they say; the truth shall set you free. He's been prohibited in truly loving her because he never has been satisfied with her explanations. And I wouldn't either, TBH.


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## Openminded

HD, why do you think he would tell you the truth even if he did? Maybe he would want to protect her. Not every man is a "kiss and tell" type. 

The truth can be a very difficult thing to find. In this case, you will never know for certain one way or the other. So, no, I don't think you should.


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## hubbydude

warlock07 said:


> Not entirely relevant to the question you asked but you almost seem to be grateful that she chose to confess her infidelity to you even if she did not have to and it was a favor on her end to do that..


I realise I seem a little nonchalant about it, but that's only because it's been 18 years. I feel like I'm at the point now of putting up or shutting up, and I'm not sure which to do.


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## Plan 9 from OS

So...why marry her in the first place if you felt that you never got the full truth? Clearly you knew about this before marriage.


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## OnTheRocks

If she's been a good partner and you have no other concerns, what does it matter at this point? She was young and unmarried. Let it go, as you should have before you married her. JIMHO.


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## altawa

I am on the same fence as you, OP. Not sure what to do, or if I would even get a response at this point.


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## Affaircare

I agree with OnTheRocks and the others who say "Let it go." Here's the thing: you have no idea of the OM's character, what has happened in his life, or where he's "at" right now. Thus, for all you know, he's a low-life, lying, drug-dealing kind of pond scum, and you'd be inviting THAT into your life and believing whatever he may or may not make up just to spite you and/or hurt your family...

VERSUS

...knowing the character of the woman you married these 13 years and have known for 19 years who has proven over all these years that whatever happened all those decades ago was a mistake, she was wrong, she has been honest and trustworthy since then, and has lived a life to benefit you and your family both in word AND DEED. 

Now you may never, ever know if they actually did sleep together. If you ask the OM, he may lie about it! There's no reason to believe he'd tell the truth after all this time any more there's no reason to think a woman would be with you for two decades and lie that whole time--but maybe she did. And maybe he will! Thus you can not tell. 

Rather than base your decision on the words of a man who did demonstrate in his actions that he was not thinking of the well-being of you...and rather than basing your decision on something that may or may not have happened long ago and there's no conclusive evidence either way... I suggest that you base your decision on where you and your wife are at NOW. How does she treat you NOW? Does she respect you NOW? Have a decent sex life NOW? Is she kind to you and caring about the family? 

If so, then let it go. You'll never know, but you CAN know what you have seen with your own eyes for two decades.


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## arbitrator

*Unless you've got quite recent evidence or probable cause against her, I'd leave this totally alone!

But please be forewarned! FB is more than prolific for reconnecting old relationships from yesteryear! If you don't believe me, just ask my rich, skanky XW!*


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## GusPolinski

OP, if you wind up contacting OM, don't ask him whether or not he had sex w/ your wife; instead ask him HOW MANY TIMES he had sex w/ your wife.

ETA: You mentioned that "the OM has appeared on Facebook"... how recent is this? I ask because it sounds like you've been searching for him for a while. Either way, how did you find out about him joining FB? Did he send your wife a friend request... or vice versa?


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## verpin zal

The ability to actually believe that grownups touching, cuddling, fingering, feeling in a bed but not having sex.

That must be a super-hero power. Never ceases to amaze.


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## verpin zal

Oh, and I'd leave it alone. How has your wife been treating you since?


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## bryanp

If you do contact him tell him for various health concerns which you are not at liberty to discuss at this time that you would need to know if he had sex with your wife.


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## EI

GusPolinski said:


> OP, if you wind up contacting OM, don't ask him whether or not he had sex w/ your wife; instead ask him HOW MANY TIMES he had sex w/ your wife.
> 
> ETA: You mentioned that "the OM has appeared on Facebook"... how recent is this? I ask because it sounds like you've been searching for him for a while. Either way, how did you find out about him joining FB? Did he send your wife a friend request... or vice versa?


Gus, you're very good at this!


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## MattMatt

3putt said:


> Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later, but I disagree with you, Matt.
> 
> This has bothered him to the point that 18 _*years*_ later he is still seeking the truth. You know what they say; the truth shall set you free. He's been prohibited in truly loving her because he never has been satisfied with her explanations. And I wouldn't either, TBH.


He is a deceptive cheater. He will either lie about having any sex with her or lie and pretend he had 100 times more sex than they did. 

It's a dangerous idea, in my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt

MattMatt said:


> He is a deceptive cheater. He will either lie about having any sex with her or lie and pretend he had 100 times more sex than they did.
> 
> It's a dangerous idea, in my opinion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Partner, we don't know if any of this is true. We can only speculate.

I think if he words it like Gus suggests, he may get the answers he's looking for.

How he's lived with these questions unanswered all these years is beyond me. Why he even married her in the first place is _way_ beyond me.


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## norajane

hubbydude said:


> Hey there, appreciate any advise...
> 
> Been married for 13 years, together for 19, two kids. Marriage has had ups and downs (who's hasn't?) but *currently in a good spot*.


Are you interested in destabilizing your marriage? Because that is the inevitable result if you contact OM.


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## 3putt

norajane said:


> Are you interested in destabilizing your marriage? Because that is the inevitable result if you contact OM.


The inevitable result of his marriage is already here. Lack of verifiable facts on his part, or at the very least a satisfactory explanation of the events in question is why he's here today.

*18 years* he's lived with this doubt. And until that doubt is disproven, it will continue to grow and gnaw at him.

He wouldn't be here otherwise.


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## Retribution

One reason I've liked TAM is that I thought there were fewer here who were willing to rug sweep based on the fact that some large amount of time has passed. The OP feels lost and hurt. He's felt this way for years.

I put myself in the OP's shoes, and it doesn't matter how "good" my wife has been to me over the last 18 years, all of that would be tainted by the thorn of a possible lie in my side. We can also go through all the shoulda-woulda-couldas that the OP might have done over the last 18 years, but to what end?

OP, clearly you have something that needs to be resolved. You have several approaches to take here. What exactly are you wanting? If you can answer this, then you'll have a course of action to take. Do you want to continue living how you have for 18 years? Do you really want an answer to your questions? What are you willing to do to find out? Let's answer these questions, and then you can move forward with a decisive course of action.


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## lordmayhem

I agree with the others that say he shouldn't contact OM, simply because there is simply no way now to verify if what he's telling the truth or not. And what exactly does this OM have to gain by telling the truth (if he banged her)? Nothing. And if he did, well, he'd most likely lie about it anyway. 

This is an example of rugsweeping the affair and then it continues to bother the BS many years later. The problem now is that its too late to get any truth, short of a polygraph, from either of them. 

But I would keep an eye on the both of them to make sure there isn't any fishing. For how long? Until he's satisfied that there won't be any contact.


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## norajane

Yeah, this incident occurred in the "early days" of the relationship. They've been together 19 years, and only married for 13. 

That means OP had 6 long years before he got married to make up his mind and resolve whatever he might have doubted or not.

I'm not so convinced this has been eating him alive for 19 years after the fact. At this point, he sounds like a drama queen, unless he has other reasons for destabilizing his marriage. In which case, he should come out and say what his real issues are for wanting to rock the boat.


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## Augusto

You sound like you are still seeking closure. I don't think its really necessary if she has been faithful this whole time. If she lied, probably a good chance she cheated throughout you marriage. But she did come forward. However that being said....there should be a NC between her and him and you need to make that clear and even have access to block him on her account.


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## italianjob

This is a tough one. 
Yeah, at first glance I would join the "let it go" party, but on second thought, if this has been bothering you for such a long time maybe telling you to rug sweep again isn't the best solution as it didn't really work the first time around, did it?

1 - You need to be aware that what you know, once you know it, cannot be not known again. So the first thing you should ask yourself is if you are ready to face the consequences that the truth will bring, whatever they are.

2 - What makes you think that the OM is a reliable source? What MattMatt said it's true, he may tell you the truth or he may think he has an interest in feeding you a different version. Maybe he married his sweetheart from that time and he will have no interest to rock the boat, so he will tell you that nothing happened, or maybe he's still mad at your wife because she backed out from sex and think this is a good chance to get his Revenge. 

3 - What made you get through all these years and bring this up now? As norajane said you had plenty of time to make up your mind before marrying your wife, so what made it not so big an issue in those years, and a big issue now?

4 - Maybe your answer is already in the circumstances of the "almost betrayal" or of the confession, How old were the people involved at the time of the facts (you,her, OM)? What were the circumstances that had them share the same bed, did they spend the night together meeting in secret or did it happen because of circumstances (IDK, a trip or something like that)?
How did the confession came about? It's not that common to trickle truth in a spontaneous confession, unless you started to have a bad reaction midway through it and she changed her mind about giving you the real story, or, more common case, she actually confessed because she felt she was in danger of somebody else telling you, so she gave you her (edulcorated) version first.


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## vms

I'm trying to imagine someone I don't know approaching me out of the blue to ask what happened between me and his wife 18 years ago. 

I can't imagine any scenario in which I wouldn't say "Are you freaking kidding me? Stay away from me, creep." 

18 years. She confessed of her own free will. Let it go already. You're doing no one any favors, including yourself, by worrying about something from that long ago. Your wife has been good, yes? Does she deserve 18 years of you constantly thinking she lied about it? If the OM says yes, you'll do... what? Divorce your wife? For something from 18 YEARS AGO?


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## ToothFairy

I would be more concerned with the fact that he "reappeared" on your wifes FB. Did she friend him? if not.. why would she accept his friend request? Beware.


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## vms

He didn't say of the OM appeared on his wife's FB. Could have popped up in the "friends you may know" thing if he's friends of a friend of either of them on FB.


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## manfromlamancha

bryanp said:


> If you do contact him tell him for various health concerns which you are not at liberty to discuss at this time that you would need to know if he had sex with your wife.


I like this idea but you should set up tight monitoring and vigilance to see if he contacts your wife to verify.

I also agree with Gus - ask how many times he slept with your wife instead of f he did.

And FYI, this would eat me up too, not knowing - so I would want to find out if I were you.


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## Chaparral

You didn't really say you were exclusive at the time. The only upside to asking is if he is an honest upstanding man at this time. If he's an honorable man, he would tell you its none of your business. If he isn't he might tell you he did in order to mess with you since she picked you over him.

You should get counseling if this is even bothering you. You went into marriage knowing this. If you in any way hold this against her, you need outside help.


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## Q tip

The answer is no.

Think.

If you contact him, he will remember and start thinking about the one who got away. He will then contact her on FB behind your back. If she responds to him. They will eventually get together for coffee and talk about old times. "Just a friend" will come out of her mouth. Then, well, you know, they just layed there and touched. But nothing happened.

So why open up old wounds on her when it was over long ago.

I hate FB. It's dangerous. 

Keep a close eye on her FB account Hoping you've got the password.

This should have been resolved years ago. Contacting this guy is weakness on display. So Beta I wanna puke.

Instead, read Married Man Sex Life Primer. Head for the gym and lose all your fat. Get buf, man up. Stop cowering. You won, he lost. Don't give him a second chance.


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## Q tip

warlock07 said:


> Not entirely relevant to the question you asked but you almost seem to be grateful that she chose to confess her infidelity to you even if she did not have to and it was a favor on her end to do that..


She probably admitted then minimized what happened. 

Leave it be. She chose you over him and married you.


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## Wazza

norajane said:


> Yeah, this incident occurred in the "early days" of the relationship. They've been together 19 years, and only married for 13.
> 
> That means OP had 6 long years before he got married to make up his mind and resolve whatever he might have doubted or not.
> 
> I'm not so convinced this has been eating him alive for 19 years after the fact. At this point, he sounds like a drama queen, unless he has other reasons for destabilizing his marriage. In which case, he should come out and say what his real issues are for wanting to rock the boat.


I can definitely believe the past eats at him. I don't think any good will come of contacting OM - I think it will do harm - but I can see exactly why it would be tempting.


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## syhoybenden

Don't you remember the story of Pandora's box?


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## IIJokerII

norajane said:


> Are you interested in destabilizing your marriage? Because that is the inevitable result if you contact OM.


 If you were in an airplane and knew the repairman used a unreliable part that yet still worked and got the job done would you feel comfortable during the flight? Probably not. 

In my line of work if a particular person if caught in a mal practice or other detrimental quality issue the first thing that is done is a review of all the prior and current jobs done by this individual. This is also used for Pharmacists who incorrectly fill prescriptions and potentially putting people in harms way. 

His wifes descriptions of "Just touching and near everything but sex of any kind" is bullsh1t. If she is willing to lie about this what else could have happened that was undiscovered. Sure, the flight might get cancelled and delayed, but at least the chances of it not crashing have become more minimalized. 

Truth is what gets destabilized, lies are drawn out and vanquished.


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## IIJokerII

syhoybenden said:


> Don't you remember the story of Pandora's box?


 And what was the last item found in box: Hope.


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## RWB

hubbydude said:


> Thing is, the OM has appeared on Facebook *so I now have an opportunity to ask him if he slept with my wife 18 years ago *while we were dating?


HD,

You were not married, no vows, no rings, no contract. OK, I know it still su-ks, but 18 years, let it go and accept the fact she slept with him.

Better yet... I was the OM. Yes, I slept with your future wife, more than once. All better.

Now, seriously. You say he is on Fu-kBook. Has she "friended" him? Is she in contact with him now? These are the questions you need to be concerned with. Former, "relationships" have no place in your marriage and FB is far from innocent.


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## Graywolf2

RWB said:


> HD,
> 
> You were not married, no vows, no rings, no contract. OK, I know it still su-ks, but 18 years, let it go and accept the fact she slept with him.


How committed was your relationship back then? Were you just dating? If your future wife spontaneously came clean before marriage, that speaks well of her.


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## GusPolinski

Chaparral said:


> *You didn't really say you were exclusive at the time.* The only upside to asking is if he is an honest upstanding man at this time. If he's an honorable man, he would tell you its none of your business. If he isn't he might tell you he did in order to mess with you since she picked you over him.
> 
> You should get counseling if this is even bothering you. You went into marriage knowing this. If you in any way hold this against her, you need outside help.


Eh... doesn't really matter. The bottom line here is that, for the past 18 or so years, OP has had this tiny little sliver of doubt in the back of his mind regarding something that the overwhelming, vast majority of folks here would've called bullsh*t on from day one.

Is it _possible_ that OP's then-girlfriend/now-wife told/is telling the truth about what happened w/ this other guy back then? Sure. But is it *likely*? No. Duh.

And to what degree does her confessing to it make it more likely that she's telling the truth? Hmm... hard to say. After all, she may have had reason to believe that what transpired would get back to OP via a third party (or even OM himself), and therefore sought to get in front of things while simultaneously mitigating the impact by stating that no actual sex (i.e. PIV sex) occurred.

Now... having said all ^that^... while I can definitely understand that OP is looking for some closure here, I'd _probably_ drop it. After all, the time to kick up dirt over all this was when it happened all those years ago (honestly, I think that most guys would've dumped her _then_), and doing so now would likely cause irreparable damage to the marriage.

But, like I said, if OP does indeed contact this guy, he should ask him "how many times...?" instead of "did you...?".


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## hubbydude

A couple points of clarification:

1) This was always an issue for me (as you might imagine) but the reason it's coming back into light now is that I've recently made changes in myself, decided to stop being the "nice guy" and start manning up. On the whole this has been a good change for us and our relationship, but I'm also recognizing how appallingly badly I handled this situation at the time. Frankly, this is the part that bothers me most and I'm recognizing a potential way to make me feel that I have done something about it (allbeit 18 years too late).

2) He has been my wife's "friend" on fb for years (no, I shouldn't have allowed it) but has been completely dormant the whole time (I have her fb password and I'm 99% confident there's been no contact for years). But he recently "liked" a pic I posted of my wife and I and this is what brought him to the surface.

3) We now live in a different part of the world. The OM is not a threat and will not be pursuing my wife.

I appreciate all the input from everyone....still undecided on what, if anything, to do.


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## hubbydude

Graywolf2 said:


> How committed was your relationship back then? Were you just dating? If your future wife spontaneously came clean before marriage, that speaks well of her.


Context is everything, right? We had been dating long distance for about 18 months, seeing eachother every 4 to 6 weeks or so. She was at the point of graduating from Uni (I still had a year left to go) and was planning on moving to my part of the country when she graduated. I think it's fair to say that we were fairly committed to eachother at the time. She was telling me she loved me, had never met anyone like me, was planning on moving to be with me, and I was 18yo, wet behind the ears, and besotted with her.

She told me about it shortly after moving. If viewing it positively, she recognized that we were making plans for our life together and felt the need to "come clean" and yes, this speaks well of her. If viewing it negatively, she likely lied about it at the time by downplaying what happened, has other cases of infidelity at the time, and has been lying about it ever since.


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## Q tip

hubbydude said:


> Context is everything, right? We had been dating long distance for about 18 months, seeing eachother every 4 to 6 weeks or so. She was at the point of graduating from Uni (I still had a year left to go) and was planning on moving to my part of the country when she graduated. I think it's fair to say that we were fairly committed to eachother at the time. She was telling me she loved me, had never met anyone like me, was planning on moving to be with me, and I was 18yo, wet behind the ears, and besotted with her.
> 
> She told me about it shortly after moving. If viewing it positively, she recognized that we were making plans for our life together and felt the need to "come clean" and yes, this speaks well of her. If viewing it negatively, she likely lied about it at the time by downplaying what happened, has other cases of infidelity at the time, and has been lying about it ever since.


Well then. She either trickle truthed it to you and there's more or not. You definitely won. Youth and learning back then as you stated in your first post. BUT --- He needs to be NUKED off her FB NOW and FOREVER. HOLY CRAP!!!

You should do light monitoring of emails, phone (deleted emails, phone logs from phone company, recover deleted phone text messages - depending on your phone, it's easy), FB, archives, deleted & sent mails but never contact the guy. Check out any trips she may have made overnight or late night. Where does This guy live? JUST quietly do this to satisfy yourself but leave this old dog buried.

You won. Simple as that. She saw you and knows she made the right choice long ago. Be satisfied in a positive way. (Kinda wondering if you had other relationships in a similar way yourself. But doesn't matter right?)

And re-read MMSLP.


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## Observer

She told you cheated on you but spared your feeling in not telling you the whole truth. So, she did cheat, just assume that. Does it make a difference? Will you divirce her if she tells you everhthing? If the answer is No, then you need to let it go. If the answer is Yes, well...that would not be smart imho. I think you need to accept that she did and move on. Tell her to unfriend him immediately as it only stirs up bad blood.


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## Q tip

"OM is not a threat is will not be pursuing my wife". 

That worries me. Unfriend him today. Who the hell friended whom and why...!?

Love your wife like you never have. Date her again. And don't let on you're hurt by this. I understand why and how. 

You won. In the best way possible. By her choosing you, admitting to it and moving on. You're stuck on detail. You can assume college kids do what it is they did. I think nothing in your life would have changed.

You know you made the right decision back then, and you'd do exactly the same today. There would have been a larger discussion, but the result would have been the same. If you knew then what you know now and all its wisdom, you'd marry her in a heart-beat. But you would have moved past this bit of left over emotion with more resolution. 

That's the only difference. 

We're only human. Not perfect.


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## G.J.

edit


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## italianjob

hubbydude said:


> Context is everything, right? We had been dating long distance for about 18 months, seeing eachother every 4 to 6 weeks or so. She was at the point of graduating from Uni (I still had a year left to go) and was planning on moving to my part of the country when she graduated. I think it's fair to say that we were fairly committed to eachother at the time. She was telling me she loved me, had never met anyone like me, was planning on moving to be with me, and I was 18yo, wet behind the ears, and besotted with her.
> 
> She told me about it shortly after moving. If viewing it positively, she recognized that we were making plans for our life together and felt the need to "come clean" and yes, this speaks well of her. If viewing it negatively, she likely lied about it at the time by downplaying what happened, *has other cases of infidelity at the time,* and has been lying about it ever since.


What does this sentence mean? Did you have other suspicions apart from the episode you mentioned?

What did she exactly confess to? How did the "bed sharing" happen? Where they at a party or on a trip with other people, or did they meet with the intention of spending the night together?

Why do you think she would come clean but lie about it? If you didn't have a way to find out why would she bring it up in the first place only to make up a story about it?

Would you divorce her if you found out she did have sex with him or not?

Excuse me, OP, but, as you wrote, context is everything...


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## ThePheonix

hubbydude said:


> I now have an opportunity to ask him if he slept with my wife 18 years ago while we were dating?
> 
> Should I contact him or not?


Ya dawg, if you don't mind looking like a complete chump and insecure fool go ahead and give the old boy a call. He'll at least get a good laugh out of it.


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## Q tip

ThePheonix said:


> Ya dawg, if you don't mind looking like a complete chump and insecure fool go ahead and give the old boy a call. He'll at least get a good laugh out of it.


If the other guy is a pig, that contact will start some real problems. If he's a pig, he'll sense weakness and go for the challenge. If he's a pig, he'll smell blood in the water...

He has zero reason to admitting anything to you. None what-so-ever. He owes you nothing. He made no vows to you, your wife or your marriage. He was a kid, like you and her.

You will have given him every reason to start contact with your W. 

Do not be that guy. Don't be a chump. Remove him from FB, email contacts and phone numbers. (Search for phone number in cell phones not names if you have it). 

Then live your life, your marriage and love your wife.


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## G.J.

hubbydude said:


> A couple points of clarification:
> 
> 1) This was always an issue for me (as you might imagine) but the reason it's coming back into light now is that I've recently made changes in myself, decided to stop being the "nice guy" and start manning up. On the whole this has been a good change for us and our relationship, but I'm also recognizing how appallingly badly I handled this situation at the time. Frankly, this is the part that bothers me most and I'm recognizing a potential way to make me feel that I have done something about it (allbeit 18 years too late).
> 
> 2) He has been my wife's "friend" on fb for years (no, I shouldn't have allowed it) but has been completely dormant the whole time (I have her fb password and I'm 99% confident there's been no contact for years). But he recently "liked" a pic I posted of my wife and I and this is what brought him to the surface.
> 
> 3) We now live in a different part of the world. The OM is not a threat and will not be pursuing my wife.
> 
> I appreciate all the input from everyone....still undecided on what, if anything, to do.


Sorry didn't see this post before I posted above so have to edit above post

Go into her account and request from FB the archive so you can check chat history they will send it to her email takes a few minutes if I remember

Sit your wife down if you must have closure and simply ask her

Before she tells you, tell her that after talking you will contact the OM straight away there and then (would help if you have a phone number and it's not just FB) and verify as the DOUBT STOPS NOW
-No you don't want to verify really as that may start him trying to hit on her--

Ask her to unfriend him and then block and if he try's to contact in any form in future to tell you straight away

Try to be as honest with this as possible BUT* make sure she understands* how the doubt is gnawing away at you

You will have to be super vigilant after this for months as he will want to contact her perhaps to know why she unfriended/blocked him


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## wmn1

1) I don't know why a few posters here have to take a shot at you personally because your question is legitimate and you aren't a drama queen or need help. You just need to be thoughtful in how you conduct this.

2) After long thought, I feel your wife went all the way with this guy years ago. I think if you were in a committed relationship, cheating is cheating and it was wrong and she shouldn't have downplayed it.

3) OM. I don't feel going to the OM is the best move. I do feel however if going to the OM is what you were going to do, do it the way Gus said "ask NOT IF but HOW MANY TIMES'. The worst he can say if F off and noneya but who the he11 cares if he says that. he's a meaningless POS anyway. The reason I am wary of going to him is because he will most definitely contact the wife and if things are going well now, it could de-stabilize. You see, your wife will not feel badly or even remember that she cheat on you and hurt you. She is living like it is in the past while you had to live the pain for years so she will paint you as the bad guy.
4) As another one said here, FB could re-establish contact with these two and that would not be a good thing

Therefore, I would let it go but I would not blame you for not forgetting and always having a 90% relationship rather than a 100% one. It's like a ship taking a torpedo and losing speed but not sinking. 

She still needs to understand that you hurt after all of these years as she would too


----------



## wmn1

Despite what I posted above, I do understand your desire to contact OM and don't blame you.

I completely agree with Locke's post above and I too don't understand those here who mock Hubbydude who has legitimate concerns and I personally applaud him for stopping the rugsweeping and 'manning up'. It's taken too long but he has a right to know waht happened then.

It will be a tough call for him to make because one way could be very productive or blow up in his face. The other way is a slow drain that will never go away. As long as he is prepared for the consequences, I pray he makes the decision that's best for him and it works out.


----------



## vms

hubbydude said:


> A couple points of clarification:
> 
> 1) This was always an issue for me (as you might imagine) but the reason it's coming back into light now is that I've recently made changes in myself, decided to stop being the "nice guy" and start manning up. On the whole this has been a good change for us and our relationship, but I'm also recognizing how appallingly badly I handled this situation at the time. Frankly, this is the part that bothers me most and I'm recognizing a potential way to make me feel that I have done something about it (allbeit 18 years too late).


Sounds to me like you're mad at yourself for not handling it the way you wanted to 18 years ago. 

You cannot change the past. Showing this guy that you won't stand for him fooling around with your wife makes perfect sense.... If it had been done 18 years ago. Now? It makes you look frankly rather ridiculous. What are you going to do? Call or write him to say how dare he? Tell he how dare she? 

If you feel your masculinity is threatened, deal with that. But going all macho man on someone that as far as you can tell has had zero contact with your wife in 18 YEARS aside from one "like" on a photo will not make you more of a "man."

If I were your wife, I'd have serious doubts about us if you said all the things you've said here to me. Nothing like saying "I'm sure you ****ed many men and haven't told me and I've never trusted you. The last 18 years are worthless to me."

Any way you word it, THAT is what she will hear. Are you so full of resentment that you want her to question why the last 18 years suddenly means crap to you?


----------



## ThePheonix

Locke.Stratos said:


> He is more confiident and has matured to the point where he recognizes that this is an issue he has to face, can no longer put it out of his head and needs answers to.


If he is really more confident and mature, he would be beating himself about the head and shoulder for something that his wife may have done and really had the right to do, while they were little more than casually dating 18 years ago. Just because he felt it was a committed relationship doesn't mean she was in agreement. Until its mutual agreed its exclusive, all bets are off.
Because of the above, I take exception on this being characterized as her infidelity and especially contentions that she lying about it. In real life, newer long term relationships are never committed. 
Like Chappy said, if the guy is a gentleman, he'd say its none of the business. Likewise, the wife felt the same way and not aired her laundry when she should have kept her mouth shut.
Unless she's in contact with this cat or otherwise up to shenanigans with the opposite sex, he'll do well to recognize its ancient history, their relationship was still in it infancy and was less than committed, it appears she's been loyal to him since she committed, and most importantly, critical equipment was damaged before you bought it.. 
Remember guys, regardless of guys she's dated, if she loyal to you now, one size fits all.


----------



## Q tip

Sure, speak with her about it, that's your right. The OM may not have known she was in a relationship. But those are all Qs for her not him. How she came to know him, did he know she had a BF, what specifics happened. How many times. She will remember. Just sit down over some wine in a nice place and talk about the past. Make sure she feels safe and loved, don't make her defensive. School, episodes, teachers and sandwich this episode into the conversation, Memories, this, more memories, more of this... Or just straight up. Talk to her. But not him. Ever. 

If I was an OM and some guy from 18 years ago asking if I did his GF, how would I react. Probably That the H is some dumb phuc. Then my memories would start on her. Then I'd tell my W about the call/email... But as for the H, I could care less. 18 years ago? What a grudge and WTF...


----------



## ThePheonix

vms said:


> I Nothing like saying "I'm sure you ****ed many men and haven't told me and I've never trusted you. The last 18 years are worthless to me."
> 
> Any way you word it, THAT is what she will hear.


Amen to that. And no matter how he words it, that's exactly what he's saying.


----------



## hubbydude

Thanks for all the input. I think most of you are right, that contacting the OM is pretty pointless. It's unlikely that anything positive would come of it and it carries risks.

So I'm left with determining how to move on.

Do I come out and ask her one last time before dropping it forever? Frankly, I no longer care what the old her did or didn't do and how the old me did or didn't handle it. I DO care whether the present day her has the respect to tell the present day me the truth. I want to believe whatever she tells me and then move on.

I'll also be telling her to remove him from FB immediately. She has no right to have any connection with this guy whatsoever.


----------



## Squeakr

So he is in the picture on her FB account? That is a big no. I can empathize with you on this as this is what happened with my STBXW and she started her As (yes that is plural) through the ease with which BF allowed her to reconnect. It is amazing how it went from NO to GO within a matter of a few weeks max. You need to end this now, as I saw the "we were meant to be and it is great we are connecting again after all this time crapola." She should have no reason connecting with an old ex of any sort on FB and this boundary should be one the two of you agree on. IF she balks then there is more to it than you know (also whom contacted whom to start this connection) as someone from the past like that should have nothing to offer for your spouse.


----------



## Q tip

The only thing to do after asking her to remove him is to see if there was any communication. I seriously doubt she will be or has. You're merely protecting your marriage. If she disagrees, just what is she protecting...

Whatever... You're taking a good approach. Happy to hear. Enjoy your wife.


----------



## italianjob

Yeah, I agree that contacting the OM might not be a good idea, and might be useless for getting the truth.

This was rug swept 18 years ago, and this goes to show that rug sweeping is never a good idea in the long run. But even if we don't join the "let it go" party, I think in this case the OP has to think carefully about what he wants to do with the truth _before_ he starts digging for it. What becomes known may not be not known again.

As for deciding if his wife had sex with the guy, it sounds like it probably happened but the OP actually didn't give much information about the "incident" so it's hard to tell if there is a chance that what his wife reported is the truth.


----------



## G.J.

hubbydude said:


> Thanks for all the input. I think most of you are right, that contacting the OM is pretty pointless. It's unlikely that anything positive would come of it and it carries risks.
> 
> So I'm left with determining how to move on.
> 
> Do I come out and ask her one last time before dropping it forever? Frankly, I no longer care what the old her did or didn't do and how the old me did or didn't handle it. I DO care whether the present day her has the respect to tell the present day me the truth. I want to believe whatever she tells me and then move on.
> 
> I'll also be telling her to remove him from FB immediately. She has no right to have any connection with this guy whatsoever.


As I suggested prior

1. Go into her account and request from FB the archive so you can check chat history they will send it to her email takes a few minutes if I remember

2. Sit your wife down if you must have closure and *simply ask her*
If you ask her then number 3. must follow

3. Before she tells you, tell her that after talking you will contact the OM straight away there and then (would help if you have a phone number and it's not just FB) and verify as the DOUBT STOPS NOW
-No you don't want to verify really as that may start him trying to hit on her--
also allows you to say you believe her so you don't have to do it now

4. Ask her to unfriend him and then block and if he try's to contact in any form in future to tell you straight away

Her reaction to these will tell you a lot

Try to be as honest and open with this as possible BUT* make sure she understands* how the doubt is gnawing away at you

You will have to be super vigilant after this for months as he will want to contact her perhaps to know why she unfriended/blocked him


----------



## Q tip

Squeakr said:


> So he is in the picture on her FB account? That is a big no. I can empathize with you on this as this is what happened with my STBXW and she started her As (yes that is plural) through the ease with which BF allowed her to reconnect. It is amazing how it went from NO to GO within a matter of a few weeks max. You need to end this now, as I saw the "we were meant to be and it is great we are connecting again after all this time crapola." She should have no reason connecting with an old ex of any sort on FB and this boundary should be one the two of you agree on. IF she balks then there is more to it than you know (also whom contacted whom to start this connection) as someone from the past like that should have nothing to offer for your spouse.


I think OP mentioned OM liked a pic of OP and Wife. Not in it.


----------



## Squeakr

Q tip said:


> I think OP mentioned OM liked a pic of OP and Wife. Not in it.


I actually missed the "picture" comment. By in the "picture" I meant the whole new realm of things, i.e. the bigger picture and not the literal photograph reference (just my dumb luck on an actual picture/photo being involved LOL).

Although this sounds suspiciously like someone might be fishing for something further (as that is how it starts, like a picture, then an innocent friend request, and then on from there). The same way that everyone telling the OP he shouldn't be concerned after 18 years, I would question why the ex would care or be concerned after all these years as well??? Why is he "sniffing" around?? I feel for the OP as this has created a "trigger" and brought the subject new again.


----------



## vellocet

hubbydude said:


> Thing is, the OM has appeared on Facebook so I now have an opportunity to ask him if he slept with my wife 18 years ago while we were dating?
> 
> Should I contact him or not?


No. No need. She had sex with him and you know it.



> insists she didn't have sex with the OM, but they did share a bed and there was some touching / feeling ect.


This is her minimalist interpretation leaving out the big one, sex, thinking that you could possibly handle the touching part and stay with her if you think they didn't have sex.

Shared a bed, stroked each other off....but didn't have sex? Uh huh. She thought you were stupid when she gave you that explanation. 

You have that gut feeling that she is lying. I say you are right.

Even if she didn't have sex, she did enough. But you stayed with her all these years. No sense in it now, although I understand your need to know.

So question is, if he says he did stick it to your wife when you 2 were dating, what are you going to do with that info?



> He has been my wife's "friend" on fb for years


Oh no no no. This is unacceptable. Rather than be concerned with whether or not she told the complete truth about what happened back then, her being in ANY kind of contact with him is what I'd be ticked about.

What part of her thought it was a good idea to be friends with a guy that she f***d you over with? That's what I'd be talking to her about.


----------



## G.J.

Must be honest as I had a few GF's that I've shared a bed with when I was in my teens when all that happened was touching and heavy petting but no penetrative sex even though I wanted to go further


----------



## wmn1

that is what she may hear VMS and Phoenix but he has a right to know and he hasn't gotten the full truth and that IS HER FAULT. And I wouldn't call it resentment VMS, I would call it an awakening. 

The question you should have asked without taking a shot at this guy is if he weighed out the pros and cons of such an action and to assume that he feels that the last 18 years were crap is way overboard. That's not what he said and you shouldn't put those words in his mouth


----------



## Yeswecan

hubbydude said:


> Hey there, appreciate any advise...
> 
> Been married for 13 years, together for 19, two kids. Marriage has had ups and downs (who's hasn't?) but currently in a good spot.
> 
> Way back in the early days of our relationship when we were both younger and immature there was an incident of infidelity on her part. She told me about it (she didn't have to, I had no idea) and insists she didn't have sex with the OM, but they did share a bed and there was some touching / feeling ect. Needless to say, this has been a thorn in our relationship ever since, and even now it still bothers me. And needless to say, I'm not convinced they didn't have sex.
> 
> Thing is, the OM has appeared on Facebook so I now have an opportunity to ask him if he slept with my wife 18 years ago while we were dating?
> 
> Should I contact him or not?



OM needs to get off facebook like now! He has a opportunity now as well. That is to make contact with your W and start fishing.


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## norajane

wmn1 said:


> that is what she may hear VMS and Phoenix but he has a right to know and *he hasn't gotten the full truth *and that IS HER FAULT. And I wouldn't call it resentment VMS, I would call it an awakening.


We DO NOT KNOW that he hasn't gotten the full truth. 



> The question you should have asked without taking a shot at this guy is if he weighed out the pros and cons of such an action and to assume that he feels that the last 18 years were crap is way overboard. That's not what he said and you shouldn't put those words in his mouth


That is exactly how his wife will see it. She will believe he has not trusted her for 18 years, despite dating, proposing, marrying and having two kids together. What is that if not a crapful marriage? She will also feel accused of lying and of not giving the full truth, as you are accusing her here.


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## Squeakr

norajane said:


> We DO NOT KNOW that he hasn't gotten the full truth.
> 
> That is exactly how his wife will see it. She will believe he has not trusted her for 18 years, despite dating, proposing, marrying and having two kids together. She will feel accused of lying and of not giving the full truth, as you are accusing her here.


She might also feel even worse and vindictive if what is presumed is the actual truth and her version is not the full truth!!


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## Marduk

Something I learned from my wife's confessions...

#1 the first confession is almost never the full truth.

#2 however, if you don't believe it, and it is the full truth, she will feel betrayed because she was open to you and you still didn't believe her. No matter if she's telling you everything or not, your odds of her ever disclosing everything about anything just went significantly down.

So, you need to at least act like you believe her.

So it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

My advice? Sit with it. Make some hard decisions. Be rational.

You know she fooled around on you while dating, and now feels she must confess this to you. 

If she is telling you the truth, are you going to leave her? If yes, do it cleanly. If not, you need to keep the lines of communication open even though it sucks. Talk through it.

If she isn't telling you the truth, and she had penetrative sex with him, are you going to leave her? If the answer is no, then it really doesn't matter. 

The biggest question in my mind is why did she confess this to you now? Nagging guilt? Security in your marriage? An attempt to move forward in honesty? Something else?

FWIW, I contacted the OM in my wife's EA. Confirmed some things, but some details were off. Where did that leave me? Deciding whether to believe some random ********* or my lying wife.

NOT a good place to be. But do it if you need to -- just make your decisions first.

E.g. if he says "ya, I had sex with her but it was a one time thing and I thought it was before you were exlusive" what are you going to do?


----------



## nightmare01

I'm 13 years out from my own Dday.

My WW - like most WS - filtered what she told me. She confessed to sex with OM, but there are a lot of dark spots about what happened which at first she glossed over or claimed that she forgot. 

Yes all this still bothers me even all these years later.

Some people, including MC's an IC's suggest that WS spare their BS the details. I find this POV reprehensible. A BS needs to know what they decide they need to know. 

Some are detail oriented people and need all the nitty-gritty details of what happened. We need this information because we need to know exactly what we are being asked to forgive.

Other BS's don't want the details and the mind movies that come with them. Not knowing for them saves them some pain.

Neither of these paths are either right or wrong. The BS should get what they need.

For myself - I know that I will never know what I needed to know in order to truly heal myself. This bothers me, but I'm ok still.

I think for a BS the important thing is to accept that it happened, and that there is nothing you can do to make it un-happen. In lieu of facts, I think we have to imagine the worse and work on accepting THAT as the truth.

At this point I very much doubt you will ever get a believable truth from either your WW or her OM. Both are likely to lie, and if you know that a person is likely to lie and that they can get away with that lie, why even ask the question?


----------



## norajane

marduk said:


> The biggest question in my mind is why did she confess this to you now? Nagging guilt? Security in your marriage? An attempt to move forward in honesty? Something else?


She told him about it *18 years ago,* after it happened. He chose to marry her 5 years later, and then chose to have two kids with her.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

norajane said:


> She told him about it *18 years ago,* after it happened. He chose to marry her 5 years later, and then chose to have two kids with her.


The OP would have had a legitimate gripe and should dig for the truth - 18 years ago. From the time of the incident he continued to date her for 5 additional years and then marry her. So...what possible recourse is there now? He already admitted that during arguments he has thrown this back into her face, so it's not like this is something that would blindside his wife. My guess is the wife already senses that the OP does not trust her. We don't know if this was done a small handful of times or if it's a yearly/quarterly/monthly/weekly event.


----------



## Marduk

norajane said:


> She told him about it *18 years ago,* after it happened. He chose to marry her 5 years later, and then chose to have two kids with her.


My bad, misread it.

Advice mostly stands tho. If he didn't deal with it when he found out about it 18 years ago then he has to now.

If she had sex with him, is he going to leave her now, 18 years later?

If the guy says he did, is he going to believe the guy rather than her?

If the guy says no, is he going to believe his wife?


----------



## wmn1

Norajane, we do not know if she has given the full truth and the story sounds like garbage to me.

Further, just because there are some doubts in his mind doesn't make it a crappy marriage.

The real argument here is whether it would be the most constructive route to approach the OM or not and that is subject of a good debate with mixed feelings on this board. I don't even know myself if it is the best move as I see valid points on both sides of the argument here.

And no, I am not accusing anybody of anything. I just call a spade a spade and there was no need to treat this guy like crap like a few posters here have done, hence me calling them out !!


----------



## manfromlamancha

hubbydude said:


> Thanks for all the input. I think most of you are right, that contacting the OM is pretty pointless. It's unlikely that anything positive would come of it and it carries risks.
> 
> So I'm left with determining how to move on.
> 
> Do I come out and ask her one last time before dropping it forever? *Frankly, I no longer care what the old her did or didn't do and how the old me did or didn't handle it. I DO care whether the present day her has the respect to tell the present day me the truth. * I want to believe whatever she tells me and then move on.
> 
> I'll also be telling her to remove him from FB immediately. She has no right to have any connection with this guy whatsoever.


Tell her exactly what is bolded above!


----------



## wmn1

correction, while she acknowledged it 18 years ago, a positive on her side, the story doesn't sound plausible and doesn't take away from his right to know more if he chooses to do so. He needs to proceed with caution. So in this way, yes I am firing an accusation here her way. Noone on either side knows the actual truth but firing bullets at the OP when he is asking a genuine question to me is beyond the pale.

While I feel that he chose to marry her anyway, and that decision rests with him as the OP already acknowledged that he was weak and didn't get enough info, the cheating lies with her and the issue isn't resolved just because they got married. As his wife, she should help him in every way shape and form to overcome this.


----------



## hubbydude

To add a little detail to the "how do we know if she's telling the truth" question...

a) She went on a couple of dates with the OM before she and I ever met, but they never really dated. He was into her in a big way, she wasn't really into him. They never slept together on these dates, although it doesn't really matter if they did since it was before we met.

b) He continued pursuing her through University. He knew she was seeing me. On reflection, I clearly didn't handle this fact properly.

c) The night in question, they had bumped into eachother in a night club with various friends. A group of them go back to my wife (then gf)'s shared student house for more drinking and partying. My wife brings OM to her room to show off some music. They start kissing, end up in bed, her pants are off, he's all over her, she's spent the previous couple of weeks facing her "should I / shouldn't I" feelings about moving to another part of the country to be with me, she's liking the attention the OM is giving her, she want's to have sex with him (she told me this) but he says he wants more than just sex, she's not able to commit to a relationship with him so they end up just falling asleep after some heavy petting (this is the original version of events she gave me). Putting it all down like this, it actually doesn't seem as far fetched as it may seem at a glance. Have I distorted it over the years? I don't know.

d) I'm aware that she had two drunken kisses with other guys at nightclubs while we dated (between the long distance of our relationship, and the fact that we were both young, immature, and sexual, I can gloss over these)

e) She also had another instance where she kissed the OM drunk in a nightclub. This was before the night they shared a bed.

f) I never so much as held another woman's hand while we dated

g) After she told me what happened, and the subsequent conversations about "did you do x/y/z?" some of the details changed a little. At one point, he had touched her all over, at other times it was just "over the clothes". This is what fuels my doubts.

h) Does any of it even matter? As I said before, I no longer care what the old her did and how the old me responded to it. I care about the fact that this has been brought up a few times over the years (not "thrown in her face", but discussed), and if she is lying to me about what happened then she is continuing to do so. The lying therefore, is not 18 years ago, it's today.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Sounds more like you are actually wanting to know about her present day boundaries vs past boundaries.


----------



## Marduk

hrm...

My wife has conveniently "forgotten" several details from back in the day that bother me...

Counselling has taught me that I will never get straight answers about this stuff. Either she will never tell me, or she's telling me the truth, or more likely that she's repeated the same story to herself over the past couple decades that it has become the truth.

So you may have to live in the question, I think.

What worries me more now is the repetitive nature of her flings while dating.

Has anything happened that you're aware of since you married? Anything that made your gut go "something is wrong here?"

If not, my call would be to trust her in the here and now.


----------



## manfromlamancha

hubbydude said:


> To add a little detail to the "how do we know if she's telling the truth" question...
> 
> a) She went on a couple of dates with the OM before she and I ever met, but they never really dated. He was into her in a big way, she wasn't really into him. They never slept together on these dates, although it doesn't really matter if they did since it was before we met.
> 
> b) He continued pursuing her through University. He knew she was seeing me. On reflection, I clearly didn't handle this fact properly.
> 
> c) The night in question, they had bumped into eachother in a night club with various friends. A group of them go back to my wife (then gf)'s shared student house for more drinking and partying. My wife brings OM to her room to show off some music. They start kissing, end up in bed, her pants are off, he's all over her, she's spent the previous couple of weeks facing her "should I / shouldn't I" feelings about moving to another part of the country to be with me, she's liking the attention the OM is giving her, she want's to have sex with him (she told me this) but he says he wants more than just sex, she's not able to commit to a relationship with him so they end up just falling asleep after some heavy petting (this is the original version of events she gave me). Putting it all down like this, it actually doesn't seem as far fetched as it may seem at a glance. Have I distorted it over the years? I don't know.
> 
> d) I'm aware that she had two drunken kisses with other guys at nightclubs while we dated (between the long distance of our relationship, and the fact that we were both young, immature, and sexual, I can gloss over these)
> 
> e) She also had another instance where she kissed the OM drunk in a nightclub. This was before the night they shared a bed.
> 
> f) I never so much as held another woman's hand while we dated
> 
> g) *After she told me what happened, and the subsequent conversations about "did you do x/y/z?" some of the details changed a little. At one point, he had touched her all over, at other times it was just "over the clothes". This is what fuels my doubts.*
> 
> h) Does any of it even matter? As I said before, I no longer care what the old her did and how the old me responded to it. I care about the fact that this has been brought up a few times over the years (not "thrown in her face", but discussed), and if she is lying to me about what happened then she is continuing to do so. The lying therefore, is not 18 years ago, it's today.


My wife did exactly the same (bolded bit) while on a girls holiday to Spain before we were married but were engaged and living together. I didn't get the truth for over 20 years but managed to get it out of her finally. Based on the bolded part I would say from my experience it is 99.99% sure that she slept with him. This is based on almost verbatim what my wife told me originally. And she was crying when she returned from holiday.

I did not believe her but rugswept it until it started to eat at me. Luckily her and her gf (who was also a friend of mine) were in the same room making out with two guys at the time. After seeing how distressed i was over time, she (the gf) finally told me the truth simply saying that we both had sex with these guys. Wife accused her of lying even though she (the gf) had no reason to.

Thats when the badgering from me started. And she went from nothing happened at all, to touching over clothes and kissing, to becoming nude together but no sex, to being nude and in bed together but no sex, to starting out with oral on her and him attempting penetration but no further, to finally saying "well maybe we sort of had just started penetrative sex but nothing fulfilling"!!!! And thats as far as she was prepared to go. Now the truth is more likely that they had sex several times (and I don't even know if it was protected, probably not). The gf confirmed that she (the gf) certainly did but wasn't sure about exactly what and how many times my wife did. And although this was soul destroying it was the not knowing for sure over time that really caused the pain!


----------



## Thor

Go read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Doc R. Glover. And get on the support forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin .

Ok now that we know she was a college student, yes I can believe she did not have sex with the guy. I had encounters at that age which did not involve sex. Depending on a lot of factors, it could be quite probable she did not have sex with the guy.

You could approach your wife to report to her, not blame her, that this event has bothered you for a lot of years. While you believe you have had a solid marriage, this has been hanging over you. So you are asking her to please come forth with anything she has withheld from you. And then after this, it is all behind you.

Will she tell you the truth? Dunno. Was she claiming to be a virgin when you met? When you were dating did she seem to honestly tell you about her sexual history? Would sex with this guy be a huge change to what she led you to believe about her history and character, or would it be relatively meaningless?

Do you have a solid understanding of what it is that bothers you now? Is it she may have had sex with him, or is it that she may have lied to you, or is it that she was not totally faithful while you were dating?

But, he does need to be nuked from her FB pronto. I would approach it as part of a general relationship protective plan. That is, neither one of you has any FB or other contact with people you had any romantic or sexual relationship with. We might construct some oddball scenarios where it is ok, but for the vast majority of people this is a solid boundary you should have.

Also, you should each have full access to all passwords. The idea is to short circuit any opportunity for false impressions to form.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

marduk said:


> hrm...
> 
> My wife has conveniently "forgotten" several details from back in the day that bother me...
> 
> Counselling has taught me that I will never get straight answers about this stuff. Either she will never tell me, or she's telling me the truth, or more likely that she's repeated the same story to herself over the past couple decades that it has become the truth.
> 
> So you may have to live in the question, I think.
> 
> What worries me more now is the repetitive nature of her flings while dating.
> 
> Has anything happened that you're aware of since you married? Anything that made your gut go "something is wrong here?"
> 
> If not, my call would be to trust her in the here and now.


Totally agree with this. :iagree:


----------



## hubbydude

Again, to add some more clarity, I do trust my wife 100% in the here and now. There have been no ocassions during our marriage where I've had any doubt about her faithfulness. I know her passwords to her email, FB etc. and there's never been a suggestion that she's tried to hide anything from me. Really, I should have gotten over this long ago and faithfullness and infidelity wouldn't even be something I'd be talking about in relation to my marriage.

Perhaps this is simply an insecurity that I carry, that I never addressed when I should have, and I simply need to drop it and move on now.

First things first though, she's dropping him from FB!


----------



## manfromlamancha

hubbydude said:


> Again, to add some more clarity, I do trust my wife 100% in the here and now. There have been no ocassions during our marriage where I've had any doubt about her faithfulness. I know her passwords to her email, FB etc. and there's never been a suggestion that she's tried to hide anything from me. Really, I should have gotten over this long ago and faithfullness and infidelity wouldn't even be something I'd be talking about in relation to my marriage.
> 
> Perhaps this is simply an insecurity that I carry, that I never addressed when I should have, and I simply need to drop it and move on now.
> 
> First things first though, she's dropping him from FB!


My wife is the same - a perfect wife and a fantastic human being and has been throughout our life since that incident and I have put it behind me. I believe she lied because she was ashamed of her "weakness" at the time. This is why I felt bad about the badgering. If you think you can let it go, then do so !


----------



## Blossom Leigh

OH... her adding him triggered that unresolved pain.

Since its been triggered, you will seek emotional closure on it, even though it is 18 years later, which is perfectly ok.

Its good to hear you trust her and there are boundaries in place, but why did she add him?

Get the closure you need, and make sure you two are on the same page about him.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

But why now? Or why 5 or even 10 years ago? Of course the obvious question was why did you not deal with it in the present as soon as you found out those 18 years ago, but that's a little too obvious.

The question becomes then what did she do and/or how did you convince yourself to forgive her transgressions that she confessed. Then, why did you allow yourself to be swayed by her or why did you think she was good wife material after these confessions?

Maybe looking at it from that angle instead of wondering if she screwed him or not (just assume she did screw him at least once) and proceed from there.


----------



## Openminded

Yes, she needs to immediately drop him from FB and, yes, you need to move on. At this point you know as much as you'll ever know. 

Time to let it go.


----------



## hubbydude

Blossom Leigh said:


> OH... her adding him triggered that unresolved pain.
> 
> Since its been triggered, you will seek emotional closure on it, even though it is 18 years later, which is perfectly ok.
> 
> Its good to hear you trust her and there are boundaries in place, but why did she add him?
> 
> Get the closure you need, and make sure you two are on the same page about him.


She added him years ago, it's just that he's been dormant / a lurker the whole time, and has only now surfaced by "liking" a photo I posted of the two of us (my wife looked particularly good in the photo).

This is a good point to raise the subject with her and have her delete him.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

hubbydude said:


> She added him years ago, it's just that he's been dormant / a lurker the whole time, and has only now surfaced by "liking" a photo I posted of the two of us (my wife looked particularly good in the photo).
> 
> This is a good point to raise the subject with her and have her delete him.


So she has already dropped him?


----------



## Marduk

Why did she friend him at all?

Who initiated contact on fb?


----------



## vellocet

hubbydude said:


> She added him years ago


Even worse. Added him when the betrayal was fresher


----------



## Dyokemm

"I care about the fact that this has been brought up a few times over the years (not "thrown in her face", but discussed), and if she is lying to me about what happened then she is continuing to do so. The lying therefore, is not 18 years ago, it's today."

This is the key point, IMO, of the threads we see from time to time here on TAM about possible/actual incidences of infidelity from many years in the past.

IMO, I think any continued lying on the part of a WS is a continuation of the original betrayal.

Personally, I hate lying and dishonesty with a passion...and I don't buy into the theory that it is justified in any relationship to 'spare' another person pain.

I think anyone who believes this idea must have never experienced the gnawing doubt, frustration, and upset that comes from wondering if they are getting the truth from their partner....IMO these are far more painful and upsetting than the truth would ever be.

I think the continuing of deception, lying, and hiding info is solely for the purpose of protecting the WS, never for the 'good' of the BS.


----------



## Thor

hubbydude said:


> Again, to add some more clarity, I do trust my wife 100% in the here and now. There have been no ocassions during our marriage where I've had any doubt about her faithfulness. I know her passwords to her email, FB etc. and there's never been a suggestion that she's tried to hide anything from me. Really, I should have gotten over this long ago and faithfullness and infidelity wouldn't even be something I'd be talking about in relation to my marriage.
> 
> Perhaps this is simply an insecurity that I carry, that I never addressed when I should have, and I simply need to drop it and move on now.


This sounds a lot like some Nice Guy stuff which is causing you the problems. I think for now you need to keep this to yourself and process it. Certainly she needs to block the guy on FB, not just un-friend him. And if it feels right to you, you could ask her if she gave you the whole story. But she has to know you are ok with whatever the truth is, and you aren't go to punish her for it.

I think you can proceed with one of two assumptions, which you then have to believe and be ok with. One is that she told you the whole truth before. The other is that there was more to it, and they had sex.

Personally, I think there is room for you to accept she did have sex, or that she might have, but it is ok. You were not engaged, you were only dating. It sounds like it was not explicitly exclusive, though you thought it was. There's a lot of Nice Guy in that kind of situation, btw. If you haven't read the book you really should. You were both young. She may have really learned a lesson from it, and as a result been very loyal and faithful in the marriage.


----------



## italianjob

By your further explanation it looks likely that they had sex... Maybe she did confess because things happened with several witnesses in the apartment so she tought it was better to give you her version before you somehow heard the story (did you know some of the people she was out with?).

If the way you phrased it is more or less what she told you, I guess the reference to the doubts about moving to be with you (should I/shouldn't I) was somehow designed to let you know that she had chosen you but the margin was narrow enough that you should avoid digging too deep on the matter...

Even if they did not have PIV sex, the fact that they had a history and that he was still pursuing her while she was in a committed relationship to you makes it a bad idea to have him as a friend on FB, IMO


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Dyokemm said:


> "I care about the fact that this has been brought up a few times over the years (not "thrown in her face", but discussed), and if she is lying to me about what happened then she is continuing to do so. The lying therefore, is not 18 years ago, it's today."
> 
> This is the key point, IMO, of the threads we see from time to time here on TAM about possible/actual incidences of infidelity from many years in the past.
> 
> IMO, I think any continued lying on the part of a WS is a continuation of the original betrayal.
> 
> Personally, I hate lying and dishonesty with a passion...and I don't buy into the theory that it is justified in any relationship to 'spare' another person pain.
> 
> I think anyone who believes this idea must have never experienced the gnawing doubt, frustration, and upset that comes from wondering if they are getting the truth from their partner....IMO these are far more painful and upsetting than the truth would ever be.
> 
> I think the continuing of deception, lying, and hiding info is solely for the purpose of protecting the WS, never for the 'good' of the BS.


The issue is no one forced him to continue dating her after he found out that she cheated on him. No one forced him bury the issue and no one forced him to marry this woman 4 - 6 years AFTER these events took place.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

italianjob said:


> By your further explanation it looks likely that they had sex... Maybe she did confess because things happened with several witnesses in the apartment so she tought it was better to give you her version before you somehow heard the story (did you know some of the people she was out with?).
> 
> If the way you phrased it is more or less what she told you, *I guess the reference to the doubts about moving to be with you (should I/shouldn't I) was somehow designed to let you know that she had chosen you but the margin was narrow enough that you should avoid digging too deep on the matter...*
> 
> Even if they did not have PIV sex, the fact that they had a history and that he was still pursuing her while she was in a committed relationship to you makes it a bad idea to have him as a friend on FB, IMO


If I was the OP, then it would have been game over. I don't play that game where the girl is weighing her options and tries to decide if she wants me or some other guy. Undecided about us? Then go to him. I make the choice for you. This makes you wonder how much self worth the OP felt during that time? If he felt this his future wife was the best he'd ever get then perhaps that's why he chose to stick it out.


----------



## Squeakr

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The issue is no one forced him to continue dating her after he found out that she cheated on him. No one forced him bury the issue and no one forced him to marry this woman 4 - 6 years AFTER these events took place.


So since no one "forced" him and he accepted the story given him at the time (full truth or not, even though it has changed slightly over the years), he is not allowed to still be affected by it and trigger from it years later? Got it!


----------



## Marduk

Devil's advocate here, and I don't really believe it -- but -- 

It's possible that she didn't have sex with him, therefore she felt little guilt in friending him on FB.

That's the way my wife felt about her EA guy -- she didn't actually do anything physical therefore everything was fine, just old friends.

What's your couple's policy on friending ex's?


----------



## Squeakr

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If I was the OP, then it would have been game over. I don't play that game where the girl is weighing her options and tries to decide if she wants me or some other guy. Undecided about us? Then go to him. I make the choice for you. This makes you wonder how much self worth the OP felt during that time? If he felt this his future wife was the best he'd ever get then perhaps that's why he chose to stick it out.


I would say that if you make this choice that easily and walk away without issues, then you are making the right choice as you probably never really loved her or were that invested anyway.


----------



## italianjob

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If I was the OP, then it would have been game over. I don't play that game where the girl is weighing her options and tries to decide if she wants me or some other guy. Undecided about us? Then go to him. I make the choice for you. This makes you wonder how much self worth the OP felt during that time? If he felt this his future wife was the best he'd ever get then perhaps that's why he chose to stick it out.


Well, by his posts I think it might have been the case, and the reason why he rugswept and went on with the relationship and the marriage...


----------



## hubbydude

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The issue is no one forced him to continue dating her after he found out that she cheated on him. No one forced him bury the issue and no one forced him to marry this woman 4 - 6 years AFTER these events took place.


Agreed. And no-one forced her to accept his FB request, maintain this dormant connection with him for all these years, and face the prospect of having her (now) husband tell her to get this guy to f**k and re-raise some unanswered questions about the nature of her relationship with him.


----------



## Dyokemm

Plan 9,

I totally agree that OP finds himself here because he rugswept this incident and screwed up how he handled it at the very beginning.

And his choice to continue in the relationship and the following 18 years of her being faithful in the M are important factors to consider....IMO OP would be making a mistake if he tried to punish her with consequences or D her if he finds out she has indeed been hiding the truth about what really transpired nearly two decades ago.

But none of that justifies her continuing to lie (if she is in fact doing so).

I think OP has little or no justification to be angry that his W may have cheated years ago....he has every right to be upset if she is still lying to him about it today.


----------



## Binji

She slept with the man. Confront the man. Ask him how many times did he knock her off. You will get your answer. Otherwise you'll have these mental nightmares for the rest of your life.

Get your divorce papers ready and monitor your bank account. This isn't a situation you need to put up with. The fact that she had the audacity to friend him on Facebook, should let you know what she thinks about him and about you. You were nothing more than safe bet option b this whole time. The fact that a woman is weighing her options to be with you, while having sex with a random man she claims she's not into, should inform you all you need to know about what type of woman she is.


----------



## vellocet

marduk said:


> Devil's advocate here, and I don't really believe it -- but --
> 
> It's possible that she didn't have sex with him, therefore she felt little guilt in friending him on FB.


Even if she didn't have sex with him, she still cheated on him with the guy. She shouldn't be friends with him on FB




> That's the way my wife felt about her EA guy -- she didn't actually do anything physical therefore everything was fine, just old friends.


She WAS physical with the OM, just not intercourse.


----------



## Marduk

Oh, I agree with you vellocet.

I'm just saying people can rationalize all kinds of things. My wife did.

And why they rationalize things can sometimes tell you more than their words actually do.

As I said, devil's advocate.


----------



## G.J.

hubbydude said:


> Again, to add some more clarity, I do trust my wife 100% in the here and now. There have been no ocassions during our marriage where I've had any doubt about her faithfulness. I know her passwords to her email, FB etc. and there's never been a suggestion that she's tried to hide anything from me. Really, I should have gotten over this long ago and faithfullness and infidelity wouldn't even be something I'd be talking about in relation to my marriage.
> 
> Perhaps this is simply an insecurity that I carry, that I never addressed when I should have, and I simply need to drop it and move on now.
> 
> First things first though, she's dropping him from FB!


I hope you got the archives just to make sure as to get to this stage your gut could have been hinting at something like lots have found to their cost


----------



## altawa

G.J. said:


> I hope you got the archives just to make sure as to get to this stage your gut could have been hinting at something like lots have found to their cost


Curious, how do you go about getting this archive?


----------



## norajane

hubbydude, you've started more than a few threads in the past 6 months about your marriage and your relationship with your wife. There's a lot going on there. 

How does your current focus on OM fit into all of it? Where does this fit into the bigger picture?


----------



## G.J.

altawa said:


> Curious, how do you go about getting this archive?


Go into her FB account then i think its in security then request archives
they send it to her email in zip format


----------



## Wazza

Plan 9 from OS said:


> This makes you wonder how much self worth the OP felt during that time? If he felt this his future wife was the best he'd ever get then perhaps that's why he chose to stick it out.


Strange "logic".

He met the woman he wanted, he chose to stick it out because he wanted her in spite of imperfections, therefore he has self worth issues?

What if she was just a really good fit for him. Maybe she also confessed the truth because it bugged her and she wanted to be honest, which would be further indication of her character.


----------



## altawa

Wazza said:


> Strange "logic".
> 
> He met the woman he wanted, he chose to stick it out because he wanted her in spite of imperfections, therefore he has self worth issues?
> 
> What if she was just a really good fit for him. Maybe she also confessed the truth because it bugged her and she wanted to be honest, which would be further indication of her character.


I don't think it is strange logic. I can see both sides of it. Just depends on the type of person.


----------



## Wazza

Binji said:


> She slept with the man. Confront the man. Ask him how many times did he knock her off. You will get your answer. Otherwise you'll have these mental nightmares for the rest of your life.


And you know she slept with him because...why? In spite of others on this thread (and me as well by the way) being able to attest to having been in a position to do the deed and stopped.

The trouble with this sort of thing is that, unless the worst case actually happened, a confession is always potentially incomplete. And we all get insecure sometimes and worry. 

So if she had said "I slept with him" it becomes "What if it was more than once?" "What if there were other men?" "What if she did such and such with him that she won't do with me?" and so on. It's how we are wired.



Binji said:


> The fact that she had the audacity to friend him on Facebook, should let you know what she thinks about him and about you. You were nothing more than safe bet option b this whole time.


I still have contact with some old girlfriends. My wife has contact with old boyfriends. It's entirely possible that she was just being friendly, not seeking to rekindle romance. 

And the "plan b" stuff, when she clearly could have had him if she wanted, doesn't make any sense IMO.

OP, you need to think clearly about the difference between reasonable boundaries vs borderline paranoia.


----------



## Wazza

altawa said:


> I don't think it is strange logic. I can see both sides of it. Just depends on the type of person.


I can see both sides too, I don't think there's enough information to conclude it is clear evidence of insecurity on OP's part.


----------



## hubbydude

norajane said:


> hubbydude, you've started more than a few threads in the past 6 months about your marriage and your relationship with your wife. There's a lot going on there.
> 
> How does your current focus on OM fit into all of it? Where does this fit into the bigger picture?


Good call.

Needs some thought for sure!


----------



## ThePheonix

Binji said:


> She slept with the man. Confront the man. Ask him how many times did he knock her off. You will get your answer. Otherwise you'll have these mental nightmares for the rest of your life.


Plus she spent all that time cruising the clubs near campus picking up guys and banging their brains out while the young Hubbydude was dreaming about her in blissful ignorance about his future wife. I'd bet if she didn't lie so much, and continues to do so after 18 years, she'd admit to the occasional threesomes and the one gang bang after the big game. The only thing missing from this thread is recommendations he be STD test and DNA pulled on his kids.


----------



## ThePheonix

marduk said:


> I'm just saying people can rationalize all kinds of things.


If Hubbydude follows the suggestions to confront his wife, after 18 years, she'll be rationalizing why she married such a joker.


----------



## wmn1

ThePheonix said:


> If Hubbydude follows the suggestions to confront his wife, after 18 years, she'll be rationalizing why she married such a joker.


but yet he goes on with questions due to her actions which isn't fair to him. 

She was the joker, not him. 

Her befriending him on facebook, albeit a while ago, was another bs move.

He has the right to ask questions because he's still triggering but he has the responsibility to himself not to destroy what seems to be a good thing. So what's the happy medium ?

Her actions caused him pain, and as I have seen on dozens of threads here, we always talk about the wayward stepping to the plate and helping the betrayed as long as he/she suffers. As I've seen on dozens of threads, those who reconcile still trigger and the answer is always the same, the wayward has to step to the plate.

I don't understand the argument otherwise on this thread.

If she truly loves him, she'll be happy to talk about it again rather than sending him to the gallows like some here suggest could happen. It is a good way to test her. He forgave her for a lot and even married her. I think she at least owes it to him to discuss it again if it still troubles him.

While I agree with those who say that his delayed reaction was rugsweeping and hurt him more, she had the opportunity numerous times to nip this in the bud and discuss it further when it was brought up previously. That has not happened. And manfromlamancha's story is a perfect example on how the whole truth hasn't come out.

As long as he hurts, she should hurt. They are one in the same marriage. And they should both be able to discuss it without damaging things further and solving that hurt. If not, then it tells me that the marriage is a bust because there are certain taboo topics that 'can't' be discussed and that is inherently wrong IMO


----------



## Pinche Culero

As some of you are fond of saying "if the roles were reversed" would his wife be acting the same he is?


----------



## GusPolinski

Wazza said:


> I still have contact with some old girlfriends. My wife has contact with old boyfriends. It's entirely possible that she was just being friendly, not seeking to rekindle romance.


Hey, as long as both of you are aware of that, that's cool. And these were actual, legitimate relationships, correct? 

Sorry, but that's a far cry from "Hey, do you remember the guy that I told you about years ago? You know... the one that I made out with, and then went to bed with, and then got a little 'handsy' with, and then stopped just short of having actual PIV sex...? Oh, and while we were dating...? We're FB friends now."



Wazza said:


> And the "plan b" stuff, when she clearly could have had him if she wanted, doesn't make any sense IMO.


It sort of depends on how you'd define "Plan B". Plenty of people cheat w/ absolutely no intention of leaving their spouses or SOs; for these folks, remaining in a committed, _monogamous_ relationship w/ their spouses would be their "Plan B".



Wazza said:


> OP, you need to think clearly about the difference between reasonable boundaries vs borderline paranoia.


There's probably some wisdom in this.

In your opinion, what type of sensible, reasonable boundary could OP expect to put into place -- and enforce -- here?


----------



## workindad

Tough one; looks like another case of rug sweeping coming back to bite in the arse.

She definitely cheated and multiple times to boot- if I read your accounts correctly. This was not a one time deal. She must have been more into him than she let you believe. Either that or were the different occasions of her cheating different men?

Why would you permit her to F-book friend him in the first place?

Also- her changing/shifting recollection of what she did with him points to her lying. It's tough to keep the lies straight. I find it very difficult to believe that she didn't have sex with the guy. Both, when she dated him and when she slept in the same bed with him after partying it up and getting drunk. He was invited to the party and you weren't- that's telling. Let me guess- he just happened to be there?

I would not contact her OM. That would let him know that he is still affecting your marriage, which he is. Also, he has absolutely no reason to be honest with you one way o the other. If he wants to mess with you, he could lie and say yes. He could also just as easily lie and say no. Bottom line, he is very unreliable.

You need to discuss this with your wife. Tell her how it is still affecting you and you cannot just let it go even after all these years because her story just doesn't add up and she shifted the details. Let her know it is affecting her marriage, invest in some counseling.

Bottom line, resolve this with her- not the d-bag OM.

If you want to mess with OM- send him a fake letter from the health department stating that a former sexual partner of his has tested positive for a reportable STD. Explain that more information will be forthcoming soon.


----------



## GusPolinski

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If I was the OP, then it would have been game over. I don't play that game where the girl is weighing her options and tries to decide if she wants me or some other guy. Undecided about us? Then go to him. I make the choice for you. This makes you wonder how much self worth the OP felt during that time? If he felt this his future wife was the best he'd ever get then perhaps that's why he chose to stick it out.





Wazza said:


> Strange "logic".
> 
> He met the woman he wanted, he chose to stick it out because he wanted her in spite of imperfections, therefore he has self worth issues?
> 
> What if she was just a really good fit for him. Maybe she also confessed the truth because it bugged her and she wanted to be honest, which would be further indication of her character.





altawa said:


> *I don't think it is strange logic. I can see both sides of it. Just depends on the type of person.*


Word.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Wazza said:


> Strange "logic".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/Originally Posted by Plan 9 from OS
> If I was the OP, then it would have been game over. I don't play that game where the girl is weighing her options and tries to decide if she wants me or some other guy. Undecided about us? Then go to him. I make the choice for you. This makes you wonder how much self worth the OP felt during that time? If he felt this his future wife was the best he'd ever get then perhaps that's why he chose to stick it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He met the woman he wanted, he chose to stick it out because he wanted her in spite of imperfections, therefore he has self worth issues?
> 
> What if she was just a really good fit for him. Maybe she also confessed the truth because it bugged her and she wanted to be honest, which would be further indication of her character.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between imperfections and betrayal. When you are dating, you have the opportunity to truly vet the person you may want to marry someday. Why you would voluntarily marry a cheater is beyond me. I can understand reconciliation when married to a repentant cheater because you have a lot more skin in the game. But working it out with a cheating GF/BF? NFW.

You cannot tell me that an equivalent fit could not be found by the OP. All this "she's the one" nonsense is the stuff of fairy tales.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Wazza said:


> I can see both sides too, I don't think there's enough information to conclude it is clear evidence of insecurity on OP's part.


Except I never concluded that to be the case either. I threw the idea out there as a possibility, but thought I made it clear it was a possible reason why.


----------



## GusPolinski

Plan 9 from OS said:


> There is a difference between imperfections and betrayal. When you are dating, you have the opportunity to truly vet the person you may want to marry someday. Why you would voluntarily marry a cheater is beyond me. I can understand reconciliation when married to a repentant cheater because you have a lot more skin in the game. But working it out with a cheating GF/BF? NFW.
> 
> You cannot tell me that an equivalent fit could not be found by the OP. All this "she's the one" nonsense is the stuff of fairy tales.


Word.


----------



## Thor

wmn1 said:


> but yet he goes on with questions due to her actions which isn't fair to him.
> 
> She was the joker, not him.
> 
> Her befriending him on facebook, albeit a while ago, was another bs move.
> 
> He has the right to ask questions because he's still triggering but he has the responsibility to himself not to destroy what seems to be a good thing. So what's the happy medium ?


:iagree: Excellent post, wmn.

I think the right approach is to first of all stfu and think about this for a while before saying anything to her, other than asking her to block the guy from her FB. Time to cool off and really dig into why this is bothering him now. He doesn't have to kill an ongoing affair or make any big decisions in a hurry.

Next, I think some individual counseling could help. A Nice Guy has issues which good counseling can really help with, and quickly. And read the book No More Mr. Nice Guy!

Finally, I think with some good guidance on how to approach his wife, perhaps even in session with his IC or an MC, he makes this about him needing closure. I would totally avoid any incendiary words such as "cheat" or "lie". Instead I would approach it as Hubbydude never really processed the situation before, and it has lingered and festered way too long. This was his fault for not getting all his questions and concerns answered years ago. While her story may have been completely truthful, he has always had a nagging feeling it wasn't. And while whatever happened is truly irrelevant at this point in time, and while he loves her and values his marriage to her, *he* has a block which she can help him get rid of. Because he believes she has been a loyal, faithful, and honest wife all these years, he will believe what she tells him now. What is important is that he hears the _full truth_ from her now.

The counselor could even explain to her that what he needs more than anything is the truth so that he can then put this away.


----------



## ThePheonix

wmn1 said:


> Her actions caused him pain, and as I have seen on dozens of threads here, we always talk about the wayward stepping to the plate and helping the betrayed as long as he/she suffers.


Let me clarify one thing. The suspicion she screwed the guy and her FB thing are two different dogs. I'm solely addressing the suspicion she screwed the guy. 
I don't view it as her actions causing him pain. That come from his own insecurities and failure to properly follow up and reconciling that she may have slept with this guy before saying "I do" several years later. They weren't married or engaged at the time. Our man Hubby didn't even make it clear they both felt they were in an exclusive relationship. The best I understood is that he assumed it was fairly exclusive relationship (which sounds very weak) because they where seeing each of occasionally and exchanging "I love you". She told him about her and this guy playing doctor to clear the air because now they were planning a life together. His belief they were "fairly" exclusive doesn't, in and of itself, commit her. Too many guys seem to believe if they date a chick a few times. decides she's exclusive, and she dates someone else, she cheating on him. Moreover, despite her voluntary confession, she is still assumed to be a lying, which tells me regardless of what she said, it would always be suspect as falling short of the truth. Somebody already addressed this.
At any rate, he's like the guy who was told the new truck he test drove and now wants to buy, was driven over the weekend by another person. Hubby went ahead bought this "truck" having the history of another driver disclosed and knowing full well it was likely taken off road. He need to quit worrying about it and be happy with the ride he's got.


----------



## Thor

There are two distinct possibilities.

1) She told substantially the truth. Her history was as she represented, and her physical relationship with this guy was as she described. I think all the evidence presented to us supports no reason to doubt her.

It is quite possible she told the truth. Her spontaneous admission is strong evidence of that, imo. Her variability on details is not abnormal, especially if some alcohol was involved. Friending the guy on FB is consistent with her not having had sex with the guy, though it is not good imo to have social contact with someone there's been a relationship with.

2) She lied and covered up a more extensive sexual relationship. While this is possible, there is no evidence to support such a conclusion. In the world of marital infidelity I would be far more skeptical, but in the world of college student dating 20 years ago it is quite believable she didn't have sex with him.

But what if she did have sex with him? Does that change anything?

I go back to some unanswered questions I asked earlier. Did she represent herself as a virgin? If she did have sex with this guy does it significantly alter her history? If she'd had sex with several others, then having sex with this guy doesn't really change what you knew of her character and morals, right?

So what is it that is bothering you, Hubbydude? Is it that you didn't resolve it back then? Is it that she may have lied to you? Is it that her sexual history may have been a lot different than you believed it to be?

What if you just accept that she probably did have sex with him? What if you accept that she minimized the relationship? If she has been a good solid wife all these years, aren't those things truly irrelevant? If she's been a bad wife then it would have been a harbinger of things to come had you known she had sex with him and lied to you. But that isn't the case, is it?


----------



## Wazza

GusPolinski said:


> Hey, as long as both of you are aware of that, that's cool. And these were actual, legitimate relationships, correct?
> 
> Sorry, but that's a far cry from "Hey, do you remember the guy that I told you about years ago? You know... the one that I made out with, and then went to bed with, and then got a little 'handsy' with, and then stopped just short of having actual PIV sex...? Oh, and while we were dating...? We're FB friends now."
> <snip>
> 
> In your opinion, what type of sensible, reasonable boundary could OP expect to put into place -- and enforce -- here?



I think the OP has a right to require no contact given the history. But there is a certain level of poetic licence in your telling of how the Facebook friendship came to be. I had the impression it was more open and agreed than that.





GusPolinski said:


> It sort of depends on how you'd define "Plan B". Plenty of people cheat w/ absolutely no intention of leaving their spouses or SOs; for these folks, remaining in a committed, _monogamous_ relationship w/ their spouses would be their "Plan B".


To me plan B is where you go if plan A doesn't work out. She had her choice, she picked OP, and he says she has been good. By my rules that makes him plan A.


----------



## soccermom2three

Pinche Culero said:


> As some of you are fond of saying "if the roles were reversed" would his wife be acting the same he is?


Well, here on TAM she would be told to move on. 

Over a year ago there were two threads going at the same time, one male poster and one female poster. Both of their spouses had cheated before marriage. The advice given to each one was vastly different.


----------



## RWB

workindad said:


> Bottom line, resolve this with her- not the d-bag OM.


Exactly...


----------



## Wazza

Plan 9 from OS said:


> There is a difference between imperfections and betrayal. When you are dating, you have the opportunity to truly vet the person you may want to marry someday. Why you would voluntarily marry a cheater is beyond me. I can understand reconciliation when married to a repentant cheater because you have a lot more skin in the game. But working it out with a cheating GF/BF? NFW.
> 
> You cannot tell me that an equivalent fit could not be found by the OP. All this "she's the one" nonsense is the stuff of fairy tales.


I agree with you about vetting. But the point is, he made his choice. It's not what you would have done. But it was his choice to make. 

He's not automatically lacking in self esteem just because he called it different from how someone else would.


----------



## Q tip

Post #1. From AffairCare. Brilliant. It applies.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/241761-100-affection-loyalty.html


----------



## Pinche Culero

soccermom2three said:


> Well, here on TAM she would be told to move on.
> 
> Over a year ago there were two threads going at the same time, one male poster and one female poster. Both of their spouses had cheated before marriage. The advice given to each one was vastly different.


So you're saying that TAM stands for "Taliban About Marriage"?


----------



## GusPolinski

soccermom2three said:


> Well, here on TAM she would be told to move on.
> 
> Over a year ago there were two threads going at the same time, one male poster and one female poster. Both of their spouses had cheated before marriage. The advice given to each one was vastly different.


I really don't get this. Got any links handy?

I don't disbelieve you, but I'd like to read up on the threads.


----------



## GusPolinski

Wazza said:


> I think the OP has a right to require no contact given the history.


Agreed.



Wazza said:


> But there is a certain level of poetic licence in your telling of how the Facebook friendship came to be.


Well... yeah. Hopefully, anyway.



Wazza said:


> I had the impression it was more open and agreed than that.


Well, OP's wife had to know that he wasn't going to forget the guy's name.

So, while it may have been "open", it doesn't sound like it was really ever "agreed" upon, at least not at all enthusiastically.



Wazza said:


> To me plan B is where you go if plan A doesn't work out. She had her choice, she picked OP, and he says she has been good. By my rules that makes him plan A.


Again, I'd agree. My commentary was mainly geared toward the notion that not ALL WS's intend to leave their BS's for their APs.


----------



## GusPolinski

Pinche Culero said:


> So you're saying that TAM stands for "Taliban About Marriage"?


LOL. Your avatar, by the way, may well earn you a ban.

And that's assuming, of course, that your chosen "screen name" doesn't do so first.


----------



## Q tip

Pinche Culero said:


> Ah but Gus there is nothing as heart warming as seeing the login screen stating "Welcome back Pinche Culero"


Mine doesn't. That's kind of a slang for F'ing a$$bag right?


----------



## soccermom2three

GusPolinski said:


> I really don't get this. Got any links handy?
> 
> I don't disbelieve you, but I'd like to read up on the threads.


I'm almost positive the male poster updated a few months ago. He was the guy that has the wife from Japan and they have a baby now. He wants to divorce but is afraid she will take the baby to Japan. I think he lives in Australia. I can't remember his name. The woman poster, I can't remember her name either. I posted on her thread so I would have to search back through my comments. I will if I get the time. The reason why I remember is because I posted on her thread about the double standard between her thread and the other thread.


----------



## GusPolinski

soccermom2three said:


> I'm almost positive the male poster updated a few months ago. He was the guy that has the wife from Japan and they have a baby now. He wants to divorce but is afraid she will take the baby to Japan. I think he lives in Australia. I can't remember his name.


Ah... I remember that thread. Poor guy. I hope he's faring better these days.



soccermom2three said:


> The woman poster, I can't remember her name either. I posted on her thread so I would have to search back through my comments. I will if I get the time. The reason why I remember is because I posted on her thread about the double standard between her thread and the other thread.


Eh... no worries. And again, I don't disbelieve you.


----------



## Q tip

soccermom2three said:


> I'm almost positive the male poster updated a few months ago. He was the guy that has the wife from Japan and they have a baby now. He wants to divorce but is afraid she will take the baby to Japan. I think he lives in Australia. I can't remember his name. The woman poster, I can't remember her name either. I posted on her thread so I would have to search back through my comments. I will if I get the time. The reason why I remember is because I posted on her thread about the double standard between her thread and the other thread.


Yep. You're right. I remember too.


----------



## wmn1

per Thor:


I think the right approach is to first of all stfu and think about this for a while before saying anything to her, other than asking her to block the guy from her FB. Time to cool off and really dig into why this is bothering him now. He doesn't have to kill an ongoing affair or make any big decisions in a hurry.

Next, I think some individual counseling could help. A Nice Guy has issues which good counseling can really help with, and quickly. And read the book No More Mr. Nice Guy!

Finally, I think with some good guidance on how to approach his wife, perhaps even in session with his IC or an MC, he makes this about him needing closure. I would totally avoid any incendiary words such as "cheat" or "lie". Instead I would approach it as Hubbydude never really processed the situation before, and it has lingered and festered way too long. This was his fault for not getting all his questions and concerns answered years ago. While her story may have been completely truthful, he has always had a nagging feeling it wasn't. And while whatever happened is truly irrelevant at this point in time, and while he loves her and values his marriage to her, he has a block which she can help him get rid of. Because he believes she has been a loyal, faithful, and honest wife all these years, he will believe what she tells him now. What is important is that he hears the full truth from her now.

The counselor could even explain to her that what he needs more than anything is the truth so that he can then put this away. 



***** I agree Thor completely. No need to rush, just do it right and gain peace of mind


----------



## wmn1

Phoenix, 

I don't disagree that he rugswept it and much of what he is feeling now lies with him.

However, I remember a long thread here last year in which the OP was afraid of losing her husband because she cheated before marriage and it was triggering him. They had a great marriage anyway but in the end it turned out that they were exclusive and she dropped a quick 'space line' on him thinking that broke them up when in fact it didn't and then shoved it in his face that she got laid by another guy and was stunned that it bothered him. It was still triggering him. They talked about it further and it worked out fine.

Maybe I am assuming they were exclusive and maybe you think that was weak and you are not sure if they were or not.

So here are my thoughts 

1) Shame on him for being weak and not clarifying these things before getting married.

2) Shame on her if they were exclusive for doing what she did. She definitely played around and gaslighted the situation.

But really, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that he's still triggering and she probably would be if in the same situation. Right now, the only thing that matters is that he gets the help he needs to overcome this and not be told to shove it, which some on here have done. He was gracious enough to marry her anyway and have a great life despite these questions. I would not have been able to do that.

It may be prudent advice to tell him to let it go and it may be prudent advice to tell him to check it out. If they have a solid marriage, then he should be able to bring up anything at any time without fear of reprisal from her.

I stand by my assessment that more happened than she let on as have many on this board. I stand by my assessment that he needs help overcoming it. I stand by my assessment that her friending this guy is causing triggers that need to be resolved.

However, considering that he was the loyal one the whole time and felt they were exclusive, he is the victim and not her. However old it is.

At the end of the day, the truth will set this guy free. Sometimes freedom has a price and if he's willing to pay that price (whether it is destabilizing the marriage or learning more of the truth and being content with that or causing more of a rift) it is up to him to determine that. Heck, she may even be relieved to put this story to an end once and for all.

All we can do is tell this guy the negatives and positives regarding his situation and let him handle it.


----------



## G.J.

Ive *just read your old posts* on threads you started and because of the *lack of regular intimacy and love being shown* you will be looking at any thing out of the normal to explain what is going on.

You may have to face the fact that in the end she is just not an emotional person on the surface and you have to initiate affection to get her to respond

My wife who is Sicilian is only emotional when the fires stoked whether it be her fury or her love and when it's ignited she is marvellous

Would still do what I suggested though


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Squeakr said:


> I would say that if you make this choice that easily and walk away without issues, then you are making the right choice as you probably never really loved her or were that invested anyway.


Who said that it wouldn't be painful and heart wrenching to walk away from a cheating GF/BF that you fell in love with? It would be quite painful. However, you have 2 things that you have to keep in mind with these situations: 1) If someone will cheat on you when dating - where life is never easier - then all the more reason not to marry because marriage makes life more challenging over time and 2) there is more than one person out there that is your "soulmate".

I'm not saying a cheater cannot reform and be true blue in marriage. But if you're at the dating stage WHY take the risk? I guess I thought it was common sense to cut contact with a cheater during the dating phase because in the end he/she was NOT the "one" if they can cheat on you.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Wazza said:


> I agree with you about vetting. But the point is, he made his choice. It's not what you would have done. But it was his choice to make.
> 
> He's not automatically lacking in self esteem just because he called it different from how someone else would.


Although my points look like little more than MMQB, I have reasons for why I post them. First off it stresses the point that the OP really doesn't have much recourse unless he wants to risk his marriage over it. Two, maybe someone else who has a cheating BF/GF is reading this thread may wise up and not make the same mistake that the OP made. 

And yes, I think he made a mistake. Because even though his marriage may have been happy for the most part, there was always a cloud over it due to the infidelity. IMHO, the 13 years of marriage did not live up to the potential it could have if they would have started off with a clean slate.


----------



## hubbydude

So we talked last night. I told her that this guy surfacing on FB brought back all the unresolved emotions from the time, and while I no longer cared what the younger her did to the younger me, or how poorly the younger me handled it, I did care whether the present day her had the respect to tell the present day me the truth.

I told her that her staying connected with him was inappropriate. She agreed, and she removed him from FB.

I told her that I wanted the truth, that I would accept her telling me she slept with him all those years ago, but that I wouldn't accept anything I considered to be a lie. That it was the doubt, not her actions, that was keeping the embers of this issue burning for me.

Either my wife is a far better liar than I would ever have given her credit for, or she was telling the truth the whole time. Either way, I'm more comfortable now that she didn't sleep with him. Clearly, their relationship at the time was wholly inappropriate and unacceptable, she acknowledged it as "cheating", and she convinced me that she has never cheated to the extent of having sex with someone else while we were dating.

I asked about the changing details. She said she was embarassed to talk about it and so was not always forthcoming with specifics of what happened. She felt bad for how she treated me, and she felt bad for how she treated the OM, knowing that he was into her, wanted a relationship with her, but all she wanted was some cold comfort. She seemed genuinely embarassed at the thought of how she behaved.

I feel much better having talked about it one last time. This was perhaps a five minute conversation but frankly I got more closure from her on this ocassion than I have over the past 18 years.

But it leaves me considering why this was still an issue for me after 18 years?

I've been on this "no more mr. nice guy" journey for a few months and things are definately improving in all sorts of areas. But I think I need to stop trying to undo all of the "nice guy" mistakes I've made over the past 19 years of our relationship.

Time to start looking in the mirror a little longer, and re-reading MMSLP.


----------



## wmn1

good for you. Glad you got your closure and glad to stepped to the plate and pressed for answers without doing any further harm. Glad she felt badly about it, shows you have someone who has moral character as a wife.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with not being Mr. Nice Guy anymore because it can lead to rugsweeping. However, I am glad you are moving on with the rest of your happy life.


----------



## Thor

Good success!

As far as the Nice Guy stuff, do get over to the forums if you haven't yet.

Recovering from being a NG is a long journey, with different phases. At some point you're going to be pretty angry at yourself. You'll also be angry at your parents and at society. You'll mourn for the lost years. But you'll have to learn to forgive yourself for your mistakes. You did the best you could at the time, based on what you knew and how you viewed the world. Every day each of us gets better informed due to life experience, and now you know better than you did back then. So you will do better from here forward, yet you will still make mistakes.

Now that you've put this episode behind you, try to focus more on making positive changes into the future. Try to think less about the past and more about today and the future.


----------



## vellocet

Wazza said:


> What if she was just a really good fit for him.


If he is opposed to cheating, and is hurt by what she did, then she can't be that great of a fit.



> I still have contact with some old girlfriends. My wife has contact with old boyfriends. It's entirely possible that she was just being friendly, not seeking to rekindle romance


Did either of you cheat on each other with any of them?


----------



## vellocet

soccermom2three said:


> Well, here on TAM she would be told to move on.
> 
> Over a year ago there were two threads going at the same time, one male poster and one female poster. Both of their spouses had cheated before marriage. The advice given to each one was vastly different.


Asking "if the roles were reversed, would his wife act the same way" is not a man vs woman question. Its "would your spouse think the same if you were doing this to them instead"

It is asking how the wife would feel if he were doing this to her. Not whether or not anyone would advise her differently.

I've used this type of question whether it was a wife or husband. 

Don't turn this into a man vs. woman thing, because the statement to which you replied isn't suggesting that at all.


----------



## vellocet

hubbydude said:


> I told her that her staying connected with him was inappropriate. She agreed, and she removed him from FB.


Very good my man. I'd have probably pressed why she thought it was ok to friend a man she cheated on you with in the first place, but hey, you got the desired outcome. No need to push it any further I suppose.

She agreed without a fight and removed him. That's good. It could have gone the other way and she removed him under protest. She didn't do that. So glad you got that taken care of.


----------



## hubbydude

And incidentally, I did get her FB archive in the interests of due diligence. Other than an unreturned "poke" he gave her a few years ago there was nothing between them, as I suspected 

Thanks for all the advice!


----------



## ThePheonix

hubbydude said:


> So we talked last night.


Now that you feel better about it, for your own sake, drop it. If you don't, or you get lured into further investigation, you're going to come across as a fearful, suspicious and distrusting nincompoop who doesn't have what it takes to control his insecurities. She'll likely lose confidence in you and will lower her romantic interest. You best listen to what I'm telling you Dawg. If you doubt it, ask some of the ladies here.


----------



## Tabitha

Nevermind....should've finished reading the entire thread before offering my 2 cents.


----------



## Marduk

In a few weeks, sit down and have a talk about boundaries. Things like ex's, opposite sex friends, all that kind of stuff.

Non-judgemental but clear. And no double standards.

Did us a world of good.


----------



## hubbydude

ThePheonix said:


> Now that you feel better about it, for your own sake, drop it. If you don't, or you get lured into further investigation, you're going to come across as a fearful, suspicious and distrusting nincompoop who doesn't have what it takes to control his insecurities. She'll likely lose confidence in you and will lower her romantic interest. You best listen to what I'm telling you Dawg. If you doubt it, ask some of the ladies here.


I get it. I kept the conversation short and to the point, no dwelling on my emotions / insecurities. Done. It was like I cut an elastic chord that was keeping this whole thing attached to me, and now it's sprang back into the distance past where it belongs. Moving on.


----------



## Squeakr

Tabitha said:


> Nevermind....should've finished reading the entire thread before offering my 2 cents.


It happens to the best of us. As a general rule in these situations what I like to do is read the first few pages (if coming in late) and then jump to the end to see if either I can learn something, or something drastic has changed from the initial few pages before jumping in with comments that might have already been addressed or surpassed. It helps me to stay on topic and more current (yeah like that happens).


----------



## Q tip

HD,

Beyond happy for you and your marriage with how this resolved. Communication is vastly important in relationships.

I feel the real reason she stayed loyal to you was you. Happy the temptation/situation occurred when it did. You actually won even at a distance. She picked you and that's final in her mind. 

She came forward and told you of this. Mind movies simply took over. Chalk all that up to youth and inexperience. 

Love that woman of yours. Start getting creative now. Pick out date nights. Treat her like a girlfriend you're dating for the first time. Change up the fun. Do things and go places you both have not been to. Have some fun. Reward her and yourself for so many excellent years and so many more to come. Celebrate!!


----------



## Forest

Never seen anything work out this well before without money changing hands.


----------



## Q tip

Forest said:


> Never seen anything work out this well before without money changing hands.


Wanna bet?


----------



## Thor

There was a TAM member a year ago, roughly, who keylogged his wife's computer when she started acting odd. He suspected maybe an affair but confirmed it was a breakdown in the marriage. Using his intel he got them back on track.

That one went pretty smoothly, with a good outcome.


----------



## Wazza

vellocet said:


> If he is opposed to cheating, and is hurt by what she did, then she can't be that great of a fit.
> 
> 
> 
> Did either of you cheat on each other with any of them?


His choice how great a fit she was. 

And no.


----------



## G.J.

hubbydude
If you get the time in a few months drop us a post on here how its going 

Good luck


----------



## vellocet

Wazza said:


> His choice how great a fit she was.


But of course 



> And no.


Then your comparison has no relevance.


----------



## hubbydude

G.J. said:


> hubbydude
> If you get the time in a few months drop us a post on here how its going
> 
> Good luck


Awesome, will do. Thanks again to everyone!


----------



## Marduk

I'm not sure dropping it is entirely a good idea.

I have found in my own journey in my marriage that the why is sometimes more important than the what.

If I were you, I'd really like to understand the "why" of her remaining in touch with a dude that she cheated on you with.

That is a massive shot across the bow no matter how you look at it -- a warning signal.

Warning of what, is what I would like to know if I were in your position.

Nostalgia for a more sexually permissive time in her life? Re-writing of history? Thinking "what if things had been different?"

Or just "I'm open to being friends with this guy?" which points at weak boundaries, perhaps.


----------



## Wazza

vellocet said:


> Then your comparison has no relevance.


disagree, but events have moved on and decisions been made.


----------



## vellocet

Wazza said:


> disagree, but events have moved on and decisions been made.


Friends with old bfs/gfs who you decided to no longer date is much different than being friends with someone you screwed your SO over with behind their backs.

HUGE difference.

Yes, events have moved on, decisions have been made, and apparently they are both in agreement with the above concept.


----------



## Wazza

vellocet said:


> Friends with old bfs/gfs who you decided to no longer date is much different than being friends with someone you screwed your SO over with behind their backs.
> 
> HUGE difference.
> 
> Yes, events have moved on, decisions have been made, and apparently they are both in agreement with the above concept.


Re-read the thread and absorb the different perspectives, including those you disagree with, and especially the extent to which she is perceived to have cheated.

My comment was balancing some presumptions at one eNd of the spectrum.


----------



## hubbydude

UPDATE: She f***ed him.


----------



## naiveonedave

hubbydude said:


> UPDATE: She f***ed him.


17 years ago? Or more recently? If he is married, his OBS needs to know.


----------



## Herschel

hubbydude said:


> UPDATE: She f***ed him.


Of course she did. You knew that already. I hope you had a plan for what you were going to do when you found out (either move on or move out).


----------



## TAMAT

hubbydude,

Thanks for posting your situation is similar to mine, except it was about 20+ or so years ago now for me, but years don't matter as the longer a lie is maintained the more time together as a couple it poisons. 

I would suggest a polygraph for your WW, so that you know you have the full truth. If you get more trickle truth 2 years from now it will again reset your recovery clock to zero. I haven't read your thread yet but you should also confront the OM as he will fill in details your WW "forgot". Your WW is likely still minimizing.

Here's a funny story from a few years back, I arranged for my W and OM-1 to "accidentally meet" one time when I knew OM-1 was going to be at a certain event. OM-1 cried out my Ws name and hugged her like a long lost love. My W still maintains that nothing ever happened and that OM-1 never touched her.

I can't help but think that my W thought of OM-1 every time she had sex with me during our marriage, and from things she said to me I believe that is the case.

For years I had horrible dreams about my W cheating on me, the type I would wake up from and it would disturb me for days and which I still remember.

Tamat


----------



## TDSC60

hubbydude said:


> UPDATE: She f***ed him.


Are you talking about the incident from 18 years ago or something more recent after the marriage?


----------



## hubbydude

TDSC60 said:


> Are you talking about the incident from 18 years ago or something more recent after the marriage?


From 18 years ago, or I guess it's almost 20 years ago now.

She's been lying to me, quite convincingly, for the past 20 years. Who knows what else she's lied about, and what other things she done in the past. I can get over the things she's done, it was a long time ago and we were different people. But the lying has been happening for 20 years, and she was so good at it. I can't believe how comfortable she was telling such outright lies.

Had she told me at the time I would almost certainly have left her. Had she told me before we were married it would certainly have prompted me to question whether or not to marry her. But telling me now, 20 years later, happily married, 2 kids, what am I to do with that?


----------



## 225985

Did she tell you or OM told you?


----------



## Danny4133

hubbydude,

I'm sorry that this turned out this way, what you need to do now is establish what other deception has taken place, it appears your WGF (as you hadn't been married when this happened) was gaslighting you all along. Now we need to establish if your wife is a wayward wife (or has been)

If she can sit on a lie and sleep well all these years I'd be thinking what else has/is she telling me bullcrap about.

How do you establish this? IMHO a polygraph is necessary, if she baulks at that request, well that will tell you all you need to know.

The main question should be "Have you had sex with another man during the marriage to HubbyDude" I'm sure other questions can and should be asked too, but that should be the main one to give you peace of mind.
We may be at the tip of the iceberg or it may well be a storm in a tea cup from 20 years ago. That's not to minimise what she did to you with the continued lie for all those years, if she can sit on that for so long its your gad damn right to have a 3rd party get involved to see if there's more to it. Trust takes years to build up and a second to be destroyed 

She lied to avoid the inevitable consequences of her actions. Now those consequences should happen, firstly a Poly to give you some direction in which road should be taken. If it appears it was a one off and you've had many happy years and still do then despite the lie you can still both be happy. But remember - Trust yes, but verify.


----------



## MattMatt

hubbydude said:


> From 18 years ago, or I guess it's almost 20 years ago now.
> 
> She's been lying to me, quite convincingly, for the past 20 years. Who knows what else she's lied about, and what other things she done in the past. I can get over the things she's done, it was a long time ago and we were different people. But the lying has been happening for 20 years, and she was so good at it. I can't believe how comfortable she was telling such outright lies.
> 
> Had she told me at the time I would almost certainly have left her. Had she told me before we were married it would certainly have prompted me to question whether or not to marry her. But telling me now, 20 years later, happily married, 2 kids, what am I to do with that?


Why did she tell you now?


----------



## hubbydude

MattMatt said:


> Why did she tell you now?


Alcohol, to be blunt. I don't even know how the conversation came up. Whatever we were talking about there was a comment about cheating, to which I made a comment about her screwing the other guy and she admitted to it. I asked again to to clarify what I had heard and she confirmed it.

My current understanding of events are that it happened once, that they didn't use protection, and that neither of them got their jollies out of it. I have absolutely no confidence in anything she's telling me other than the fact that they slept together.


----------



## sokillme

hubbydude said:


> UPDATE: She f***ed him.


Always the same. Cheaters have personality disorders. But they are damn good at lying. It's their MO. Just assume the worst, it is a better bet. So what do you do? She F-ed him and also made contact.

20 years of lying about cheating is not small thing. It's awful. So what was the fallout when she sobered up? Does she know how upset you are? 

Sorry but this is why you don't marry someone who cheated because they are just a different type of person. They are capable of very dubious actions for years and years.


----------



## hubbydude

Danny4133 said:


> hubbydude,
> 
> I'm sorry that this turned out this way, what you need to do now is establish what other deception has taken place, it appears your WGF (as you hadn't been married when this happened) was gaslighting you all along. Now we need to establish if your wife is a wayward wife (or has been)
> 
> If she can sit on a lie and sleep well all these years I'd be thinking what else has/is she telling me bullcrap about.
> 
> How do you establish this? IMHO a polygraph is necessary, if she baulks at that request, well that will tell you all you need to know.
> 
> The main question should be "Have you had sex with another man during the marriage to HubbyDude" I'm sure other questions can and should be asked too, but that should be the main one to give you peace of mind.
> We may be at the tip of the iceberg or it may well be a storm in a tea cup from 20 years ago. That's not to minimise what she did to you with the continued lie for all those years, if she can sit on that for so long its your gad damn right to have a 3rd party get involved to see if there's more to it. Trust takes years to build up and a second to be destroyed
> 
> She lied to avoid the inevitable consequences of her actions. Now those consequences should happen, firstly a Poly to give you some direction in which road should be taken. If it appears it was a one off and you've had many happy years and still do then despite the lie you can still both be happy. But remember - Trust yes, but verify.


That's what bites me, the fact that she sat on a massive lie for so long and slept perfectly soundly every night. It makes me question everything I thought I knew about her.


----------



## hubbydude

sokillme said:


> Always the same. Cheaters have personality disorders. But they are damn good at lying. It's their MO. Just assume the worst, it is a better bet. So what do you do? She F-ed him and also made contact.


She didn't make contact as such, he friended her on facebook and she accepted, and he lurked there for years without really contacting any further (as far as I know).

What also bothers me, is when I recount some of our past conversations about it she actually commented about how she felt bad for the OM and how she treated him. I just can't imagine the moral gymnastics I would have to do in order to tell my wife with a straight face that I didn't sleep with someone when in fact I had, and in the same breath tell her how guilty I felt towards the other woman. I just couldn't do it. And I'm so stunned that she was capable of doing it. You think you know someone!


----------



## hubbydude

sokillme said:


> 20 years of lying about cheating is not small thing. It's awful. So what was the fallout when she sobered up? Does she know how upset you are?


We'll talk this evening, I have no idea how to approach it. I expect her to focus on the "it happend 20 years ago, let's forget about it" approach and ignore the lying. I can't allow that.


----------



## Thor

hubbydude said:


> She's been lying to me, quite convincingly, for the past 20 years. Who knows what else she's lied about, and what other things she done in the past. I can get over the things she's done, it was a long time ago and we were different people. But the lying has been happening for 20 years, and she was so good at it. I can't believe how comfortable she was telling such outright lies.
> 
> Had she told me at the time I would almost certainly have left her. Had she told me before we were married it would certainly have prompted me to question whether or not to marry her. But telling me now, 20 years later, happily married, 2 kids, what am I to do with that?


HD, I'm sorry it has come to this for you.

While I wish I could say something optimistic to you, here's my honest opinion. This shows her basic philosophy of your relationship includes it being ok to lie to you in order to get what she wanted, even if it harms you. She believes it is ok to take away your right to make fully informed decisions.

My xw it turns out was lying about major things from before we were married. Some were major lies of omission, others of commission. All still lies. She lied during the marriage about a variety of things, some minor some major, to ensure I was not able to participate in major decisions. 

Like you, I would not have married her had I known the truth at the time. And, like you, today I would look differently at some of those things. But back then, I would not have married her, and she knew it.

There is the crux of my point, your wife knew you would not have stayed with her if you had known the truth. Not before the wedding, and not during the marriage. So it was ok with her internal rules to lie and deceive you.

And, once I discovered some of the lies and deceptions about a half dozen years ago (25+ yrs into the marriage), I had a couple of serious discussions with her about future lies or deceptions. She didn't change, she just learned to be even more careful. A few random lucky events led to me discovering more serious deceptions.

Your wife is the same person she's been all along, one who finds it acceptable to lie to you. She is not loyal to you or the marriage. For you to ever have a trusting relationship with her, she needs to prove to you she has *changed*. Not just that she is sorry for what she did, but fundamentally she has changed. She has to articulate why it was wrong what she did, express true remorse, ask for forgiveness, and then explain believably a new understanding of marriage.


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## TX-SC

Okay, here again I'll be the voice of reason. If your wife did this and lied about it for 20 years, then yes it is a big deal and you need to have a long talk about this. But, if she has been faithful for 20 years and throughout your marriage, I would hesitate to end the marriage over this.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## TAMAT

hubbydude,

The fact that she allowed this guy on her facebook very likely means that embers of attraction remained in her heart for the OM, and she has remained in contact until just recently. I know my W still has a good opinion of OM-1.

Your WW may have viewed the OM as her soulmate and you suffered as a result by the contrast effect. 

In previous posts you wrote about how lukewarm your WW was with you, I suspect that your WW may never have felt romantic passion for your except very early in your relationship. You were the ideal husband in every regard, she even had your children, but sensually speaking she may feel she has settled for you. 

She may have also intuited that the OM would end up cheating on her and decided she did not want that pain. Her reasons for leaving the OM may not have been all that honorable.

My W also cannot articulate why she feels no passion for me, and since she is lying she can't keep her story straight, but deep down she knows she is actually a powerfully sexual person and is attracted to others just not to me.

Polygraph, DNA test, post nuptual, confront the OM, expose the OM.

Tamat


----------



## hubbydude

TAMAT said:


> Polygraph, DNA test, post nuptual, confront the OM, expose the OM.
> 
> Tamat


So there's a good question that goes back to the original topic of this thread. After 20 years I learn that my wife cheated on me. Should I contact the OM? What would I say - "I've recently learned that you banged my wife 20 years ago while she was dating me. She's a little sketchy on the details and I'm hoping you can fill me in."?


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## TAMAT

hubbydude,

I spoke with OM-1 from years ago and I'm glad I did, I did not get into dirty details as his kids were there. What he said his attempts to claim he now has health problems for example and his explaining his work relationship with my W seemed to be an attempt to deflect blame and gain sympathy.

Even if the OM is lying what he says and does not say and what he avoids saying tells a story. 

My W did not like it when I told her I was glad I know what OMs kids look like.

Tamat


----------



## hubbydude

TAMAT said:


> hubbydude,
> 
> I spoke with OM-1 from years ago and I'm glad I did, I did not get into dirty details as his kids were there. What he said his attempts to claim he now has health problems for example and his explaining his work relationship with my W seemed to be an attempt to deflect blame and gain sympathy.
> 
> Even if the OM is lying what he says and does not say and what he avoids saying tells a story.
> 
> My W did not like it when I told her I was glad I know what OMs kids look like.
> 
> Tamat


I should note that the OM is now in a different part of the world from us. So I could only ever reasonably contact him via email or social media. So no info in the way of body language or instinctive reactions to anything I say. It might even be telling to suggest to the wife that I plan to contact him, and see how she reacts.


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## TAMAT

hubbydude,

My W had a small emotional breakdown when I told her I was going to talk to OM-1.

Then the morning after I met with him, she spontaneously KISSED me, and by that I mean a real kiss.

I never told her what was said, but am considering making up a story in spite of the fact we did not talk about dirty details.

Tamat


----------



## hubbydude

TAMAT said:


> I never told her what was said, but am considering making up a story in spite of the fact we did not talk about dirty details.
> 
> Tamat


What purpose would that serve?


----------



## TAMAT

hubbydude,

What purpose, it's cheaper than a polygraph.

And I need to decide if I should remain in the marriage, I get the impression she may have given OM anal and for that I will divorce.

I don't like manipulation or lying but its a small transgression compared to decades of dishonesty.

Tamat


----------



## Diana7

hubbydude said:


> I realise I seem a little nonchalant about it, but that's only because it's been 18 years. I feel like I'm at the point now of putting up or shutting up, and I'm not sure which to do.


 Must admit that if they shared a bed its pretty likely they did have sex of some sort(either oral or vaginal). 
As for asking him, not sure he would tell the truth out of fear of what you may do. 

Its a difficult one, I would find it very hard to be married to someone who did this, especially not knowing what they actually did or whether they were lying. Was she specific about what she says they did?


----------



## Diana7

hubbydude said:


> I should note that the OM is now in a different part of the world from us. So I could only ever reasonably contact him via email or social media. So no info in the way of body language or instinctive reactions to anything I say. It might even be telling to suggest to the wife that I plan to contact him, and see how she reacts.


Yes her reaction may be telling, but surely she will then contact him first? Maybe say you have already contacted him and does she want to tell you anything.


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## Diana7

hubbydude said:


> We'll talk this evening, I have no idea how to approach it. I expect her to focus on the "it happend 20 years ago, let's forget about it" approach and ignore the lying. I can't allow that.


 You need to remind her that for you its as if its just happened because she has only just told you the truth. I can understand that the lies are just as bad as the affair, and 20 years is a long time to lie about something so serious.. 
A lady I know found out that her husband had cheated on her 17 years before and she didnt know. It devastated her. 

You may find it nearly impossible to trust her again after all this time. Had she been honest then, and was sorry, then you maybe could have built up the trust by now.


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## lordmayhem

hubbydude said:


> We'll talk this evening, I have no idea how to approach it. I expect her to focus on the "it happend 20 years ago, let's forget about it" approach and ignore the lying. I can't allow that.


Normally, I'm all for full disclosure, but it this case, you're opening up old wounds. Remember, this is what you said:



hubbydude said:


> So we talked last night. I told her that this guy surfacing on FB brought back all the unresolved emotions from the time, and while I no longer cared what the younger her did to the younger me, or how poorly the younger me handled it,* I did care whether the present day her had the respect to tell the present day me the truth.*
> 
> I told her that her staying connected with him was inappropriate. She agreed, and she removed him from FB.
> 
> I told her that I wanted the truth, that I would accept her telling me she slept with him all those years ago, but that I wouldn't accept anything I considered to be a lie. That it was the doubt, not her actions, that was keeping the embers of this issue burning for me.
> 
> Either my wife is a far better liar than I would ever have given her credit for, or she was telling the truth the whole time. Either way, I'm more comfortable now that she didn't sleep with him. Clearly, their relationship at the time was wholly inappropriate and unacceptable, she acknowledged it as "cheating", and she convinced me that she has never cheated to the extent of having sex with someone else while we were dating.


Okay, now that she finally admitted the truth, which is what you suspected, you're upset when you said you would be able to handle it. She unfriended him from FB already (she also needs to block him so he can't see anything at all about her). This was years ago before your marriage, and yes, this was cheating on her part if you were in a committed exclusive relationship. 

I understand what you're feeling, that you possibly married her based on a lie (that she had been faithful to you). But, now you've had a workable relationship with children for almost two decades. If it bothers you that much, than you should both go to MC to work through your issues.


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## lordmayhem

hubbydude said:


> I should note that the OM is now in a different part of the world from us. So I could only ever reasonably contact him via email or social media. So no info in the way of body language or instinctive reactions to anything I say. It might even be telling to suggest to the wife that I plan to contact him, and see how she reacts.


This would serve no purpose other than to re-open old wounds. Yes, he is a sh!tbag for pursuing your then girlfriend while she was in a committed relationship with you. That means he deserves no further effort on your part. You probably wouldn't get the truth anyway, so what? Why waste any more emotional energy on that guy? Not worth it.


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## manfromlamancha

I think what many people are missing is that it is not the sex but the lying flawlessly and shamelessly throughout the 20 years of marriage that is the real issue.

OP doesn't really know who (or what) he is married to! He knows the part she played and the role she portrayed - but not the real her. The real her who …

… could be lying about her affection for (and attraction to) him.

… could have been pining for her "love of her life" all this time.

… could have chosen him as a safer bet than the "love of her life".

… could have been fantasising about the "love of her life" every time she fvcked OP.

… could have been lying equally well about many other (important) things without batting an eyelid.

… could have had other affairs that OP knows nothing about.


Get the picture - even if she didn't cheat all through this time - she lied and deceived without hesitation. She manipulated him into marrying her!

I could not stay with someone like this - kids or no kids!


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## lordmayhem

manfromlamancha said:


> Get the picture - even if she didn't cheat all through this time - she lied and deceived without hesitation. She manipulated him into marrying her!
> 
> I could not stay with someone like this - kids or no kids!


It's understandable that one would think that now, the entire marriage has been based on a lie. I get that. It's still a very traumatic event. And if this had happened only a few months ago, then yes, the story would be different. But the fact of the matter is he's been asking for disclosure for years and said he would be able to accept it, and now that she has, he should throw away the relationship? If she had maintained contact with OM all these years (like in planebuff's case), then yes, he should consider leaving, or if OM turned out to be the father of one of his children. Under normal circumstances, I'm hardcore, but I feel this one of the exceptions.


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## sokillme

hubbydude said:


> I should note that the OM is now in a different part of the world from us. So I could only ever reasonably contact him via email or social media. So no info in the way of body language or instinctive reactions to anything I say. It might even be telling to suggest to the wife that I plan to contact him, and see how she reacts.


Personally I don't think this has anything to do with the other man at this point, that was 20 years ago. The lying, the deception was everyday until yesterday. That is your problem. Poly may be the only way to go. Do you guys have kids?


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## TDSC60

I don't think many on here bought her story of "just sleeping in the bed together" we all knew that there was sex involved.

But take what she has also let slip. She was undecided if she wanted to commit to you at the time when this happened. After that night she, chose YOU and appears to have been a basically good wife and mother since. One question - were you officially engaged when she slept with the OM? It sounds like maybe you were in an unspoken "committed relationship". In your mind you were committed, while in her mind she was not sure.

I think the lies came from her not wanting to loose you once she realized what she had done during a drunken one night stand and not wanting to hurt you. I can understand why she lied, you have to decide if you can forgive her for it.

DO NOT CONTACT OTHER MAN. That is the worst thing you could do in the now. She has blocked him. Forget about him.

You now have the truth about something that has been bugging you for years. If do not suspect her of being unfaithful since marriage, you have a real opportunity to have a happy life together. I think you should get some marriage counseling so you both can learn communication skills and the importance of being honest and open.

Good luck.


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## Thor

manfromlamancha said:


> I think what many people are missing is that it is not the sex but the lying flawlessly and shamelessly throughout the 20 years of marriage that is the real issue.
> 
> OP doesn't really know who (or what) he is married to! He knows the part she played and the role she portrayed - but not the real her. The real her who …
> 
> … could be lying about her affection for (and attraction to) him.
> 
> … could have been pining for her "love of her life" all this time.
> 
> … could have chosen him as a safer bet than the "love of her life".
> 
> … could have been fantasising about the "love of her life" every time she fvcked OP.
> 
> … could have been lying equally well about many other (important) things without batting an eyelid.
> 
> … could have had other affairs that OP knows nothing about.
> 
> 
> Get the picture - even if she didn't cheat all through this time - she lied and deceived without hesitation. She manipulated him into marrying her!
> 
> I could not stay with someone like this - kids or no kids!


Agreed.

Beyond the natural question OP has of "What else don't I know about", it is important to consider what else she may do in the future. My wife engaged in several significant lies and deceptions even after we'd had discussions about her past deceptions and how it was a now a line in the sand. I told her my primary need in the marriage was open honesty from her. She didn't care, because that didn't fit her ground rules that dishonesty is a valid tool to get what she wants.

Unless OP's wife renounces her dishonesty and demonstrates a true change in her understanding of marriage, I would worry about what else she may yet do in the future.


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## hubbydude

TDSC60 said:


> If do not suspect her of being unfaithful since marriage, you have a real opportunity to have a happy life together.


I don't suspect her of being unfaithful since marriage, but I do suspect that there are likely lots of other lies, both large ones and small ones, that I will likely never know. If she can sit there and have a serious and sober conversation with me about this, telling me that she understands my need for honesty, and then lie to my face without so much as batting an eyelid (I think she even said something along the lines of "I swear on the kids lives that I didn't have sex with him") then frankly I don't know what I should and shouldn't believe.


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## MattMatt

hubbydude said:


> I don't suspect her of being unfaithful since marriage, but I do suspect that there are likely lots of other lies, both large ones and small ones, that I will likely never know. If she can sit there and have a serious and sober conversation with me about this, telling me that she understands my need for honesty, and then lie to my face without so much as batting an eyelid (I think she even said something along the lines of "I swear on the kids lives that I didn't have sex with him") then frankly I don't know what I should and shouldn't believe.


 @hubbydude I think you need to consider a polygraph session and also some counselling, both individual and couple's counselling.

A 20 year lie? That's not good, but at least now you have confirmation.


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## TAMAT

hubbydude,

By allowing OM on her facebook she was unfaithful, especially considering she was not truthful about OM.

There is also the issue of how many people who are still in her life knew about OM or somehow condoned or encouraged the affair. Who did his WW confess to who never told HD. Did her parents know?

And then there is the issue of emotional faithlessness, she may have pined away for OM for the duration of your marriage. I know that one of the difficult issues for me is what to do about the virtually sexless years and the almost entirely passionless marriage. I did ask my W if she never recovered from her affair with OM-1 and she did agree that she was never the same with me.

If I had known I think I would not have married her, I believed I could somehow fix things by being a better person and helping and catering to her but nothing ever worked.

Tamat


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## TDSC60

I am of the opinion that honesty is the best policy and that honesty between spouses is essential for a good marriage. 

Having said that, there are occasions where I have chosen to lie to my wife; "No baby, those pants don't make your azz look fat", "Sure, I would enjoy visiting you parents this weekend" and I feel sure there have been time she is not totally honest with me.

And in all honesty, there is one night that happened when we were married maybe for 6 months involving another guy that I am sure I have not gotten the entire truth. At the time I thought "Screw it. I am young. I can get another woman if I need to." and while I let it drop with her at the time, I have lived with the knowledge that she has and probably still is keeping the entire truth from me. 

As a result of that one night 40 years ago I have never again had 100% unquestioning trust in my wife. I do not think anyone should ever trust their spouse 100% and not ask questions and when they do have doubts about the answers, they should continue to investigate. This outlook has worked for me for 40 years and it might work for you.

Note: We were married when this happened. If I found out today that she screwed someone after we were married she would become my live-in housekeeper no longer my wife. Why would I not walk away you ask? Because financially we would both be in lousy shape if I did so.


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## TAMAT

hubbydude,

Write out a comprehensive list of questions in a notebook and have your WW write in the answers.

Then have your WW write out a timeline for the affair with all the details, the polygraph questioner will then ask if she answered the questions truthfully or if there are omissions.

Tamat


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## ConanHub

hubbydude said:


> UPDATE: She f***ed him.


So she cheats on you, lies about it to manipulate you into continuing a relationship with her and marrying her, keeps lying for 20 years to you and friends him on Facebook as well?

You've got a real peach of a woman there!

How do you feel about spanking?

Sounds like she needs one that turns her lying ass purple!


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## sokillme

TDSC60 said:


> I am of the opinion that honesty is the best policy and that honesty between spouses is essential for a good marriage.
> 
> Having said that, there are occasions where I have chosen to lie to my wife; "No baby, those pants don't make your azz look fat", "Sure, I would enjoy visiting you parents this weekend" and I feel sure there have been time she is not totally honest with me.
> 
> And in all honesty, there is one night that happened when we were married maybe for 6 months involving another guy that I am sure I have not gotten the entire truth. At the time I thought "Screw it. I am young. I can get another woman if I need to." and while I let it drop with her at the time, I have lived with the knowledge that she has and probably still is keeping the entire truth from me.
> 
> As a result of that one night 40 years ago I have never again had 100% unquestioning trust in my wife. I do not think anyone should ever trust their spouse 100% and not ask questions and when they do have doubts about the answers, they should continue to investigate. This outlook has worked for me for 40 years and it might work for you.
> 
> Note: We were married when this happened. If I found out today that she screwed someone after we were married she would become my live-in housekeeper no longer my wife. Why would I not walk away you ask? Because financially we would both be in lousy shape if I did so.


Many couldn't life with what you have. I know I couldn't.


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## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> Many couldn't life with what you have. I know I couldn't.


Word.


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## EunuchMonk

Reminds me of this story


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## phillybeffandswiss

Well, the first thing I would do is ask for any admissions of other infidelities. This is why doubt is ugly. If it took her being drunk to talk, after nearly 20 years, what else has she hidden? This is why some posters said leave it alone.


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## TRy

hubbydude said:


> I should note that the OM is now in a different part of the world from us. So I could only ever reasonably contact him via email or social media. So no info in the way of body language or instinctive reactions to anything I say.


 Get a prepay phone calling app such as Rebtel that allows you to call overseas numbers at really low cost. $20.00 worth of prepay will let you call him on any phone (cell or land line) and talk to him for a long time. Calling will allow you to at least be able get some indication of his reaction. 

On the phone, do not directly ask him a question that he may not want to answer, such as "did you fu*k her more than once?". Instead hide it in another question such as "I just found out that you had sex with my wife multiple time while I was dating her, did you know about me at the time?". Then ask for confermation "how long were you having sex with her and did you love her"?

Also, when your wife tries to tell you that it was a long time ago, tell her that her accepting his Facebook invite while lying to you that it was OK because they never had sex was not a long time ago.


----------



## TRy

lordmayhem said:


> But the fact of the matter is he's been asking for disclosure for years and said he would be able to accept it, and now that she has, he should throw away the relationship?


 Unless you 100% believe her when she told the OP that "it happened once" and that "neither of them got their jollies out of it", she still has not giving the OP the full disclosure that he was asking for.



lordmayhem said:


> If she had maintained contact with OM all these years (like in planebuff's case), then yes, he should consider leaving


 She is in fact still in contact with the other man. They are Facebook friends. Also, as Facebook friends they can text and delete without it showing up on the bill. Although she claims that they have not been communicating, she also claimed that they never had sex when she became Facebook friends with him. That is the problem with her lying, he cannot believe anything that she says.



lordmayhem said:


> or if OM turned out to be the father of one of his children.


 The very fact that you had to qualify your answer by saying "or if OM turned out to be the father of one of his children" shows the seriousness of the OP's current situation.


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## nursejackie

FWIW- OP I had an A 25 years ago. I did not tell my H. I went to several IC's that told me not to as it would only hurt him. I kept it to myself-that lie of omission prevented me from loving him fully all those years. After i came on TAM I was convinced to disclose. I did- and it was as if it had just happened to him. He was physically and emotionally sick. He had/has the mind movies...he called me names and said he didnt know if he wanted to stay married anymore 

He had many questions which I tried to answer honestly. Did I love OM? -NO- did OM break the relationship off?- no_Did I have PIV - no- but if I had I would have been scared it was a deal breaker and dont honestly know if I would have got those words out of my mouth......I'd like to think I was brave enough but faced with that ????Maybe not.
We are going to MC and IC. He has forgiven me. He doesnt want to know more than what he knows and I dont tell him anything unless he asks. 

Why did your wife lie for all those years? ?It is simple. She was ashamed, humiliated, feared it would be a deal breaker and you would no longer love her or you may leave her. She is not a sly demon trying to trick you at every turn.... She loves you. She didnt want to pay the consequences for telling you she did more in case it meant you would abandon her and her world would fall apart.

It was a long time ago. Let it go. Be happy.


----------



## manfromlamancha

nursejackie said:


> FWIW- OP I had an A 25 years ago. I did not tell my H. I went to several IC's that told me not to as it would only hurt him. I kept it to myself-that lie of omission prevented me from loving him fully all those years. After i came on TAM I was convinced to disclose. I did- and it was as if it had just happened to him. He was physically and emotionally sick. He had/has the mind movies...he called me names and said he didnt know if he wanted to stay married anymore
> 
> He had many questions which I tried to answer honestly. Did I love OM? -NO- did OM break the relationship off?- no_Did I have PIV - no- but if I had I would have been scared it was a deal breaker and dont honestly know if I would have got those words out of my mouth......I'd like to think I was brave enough but faced with that ????Maybe not.
> We are going to MC and IC. He has forgiven me. He doesnt want to know more than what he knows and I dont tell him anything unless he asks.
> 
> Why did your wife lie for all those years? ?It is simple. She was ashamed, humiliated, feared it would be a deal breaker and you would no longer love her or you may leave her. She is not a sly demon trying to trick you at every turn.... She loves you. She didnt want to pay the consequences for telling you she did more in case it meant you would abandon her and her world would fall apart.
> 
> It was a long time ago. Let it go. Be happy.



Yes but one or two more questions so that we are comparing properly -

"Did you keep in contact with the OM all these years ?"

"Did you befriend him on Facebook without your hubby knowing that you had an affair with him ?"

See, the answers to these two questions means he cannot and should not "let it go" - he actually believes that there are more (other) lies too.


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## VladDracul

nursejackie said:


> FWIW- OP I had an A 25 years ago. I did not tell my H. I went to several IC's that told me not to as it would only hurt him. I kept it to myself-that lie of omission prevented me from loving him fully all those years. After i came on TAM I was convinced to disclose. I did- and it was as if it had just happened to him. He was physically and emotionally sick. He had/has the mind movies...he called me names and said he didnt know if he wanted to stay married anymore


I don't know Jackie; I have questions about whether folks tell to help relieve themselves with guilt, to "help" the marriage, give the spouse opportunity to leave or stay, or for some other reason. In your case, based on the way you describe it, I personally think he'd been better off not knowing. Did your lie by omission cause you pain that you had to relieve? Could it be that once you come clean about your "misdemeanors" it allowed you to shed your guilt because the responsibility was now his to do something about it if he so desired? If the argument holds true that only the disloyal spouse is responsible for the affair, how does that square with pain and suffering he went through after you took corrective action decades earlier? Despite the weight off your shoulders by confessing your sins, did your husband really gain anything by it?


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## phillybeffandswiss

nursejackie said:


> Why did your wife lie for all those years? ?It is simple. She was ashamed, humiliated, feared it would be a deal breaker and you would no longer love her or you may leave her. She is not a sly demon trying to trick you at every turn.... She loves you. She didnt want to pay the consequences for telling you she did more in case it meant you would abandon her and her world would fall apart.
> 
> It was a long time ago. Let it go. Be happy.


This all may be true or she wanted a friends with benefits scenario. That's why you sometimes need to let things go and why people said let it go. Myself, too late now, I'm all in. She screwed him, lied about it for 20 years, added him to Facebook, kept in contact and NOW she wants to tell the truth. Oh wait, a DRUNK truth, not a "look I need to come clean" admission like nursejackie's story. I really do believe that's how nursejackie felt, but I don't buy the humiliation and ashamed feeling from OP's wife when she kept in contact.


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## xMadame

hubbydude said:


> I don't suspect her of being unfaithful since marriage, but I do suspect that there are likely lots of other lies, both large ones and small ones, that I will likely never know. If she can sit there and have a serious and sober conversation with me about this, telling me that she understands my need for honesty, and then lie to my face without so much as batting an eyelid (I think she even said something along the lines of "I swear on the kids lives that I didn't have sex with him") then frankly I don't know what I should and shouldn't believe.




You think that she is a liar because of this one lie?
Op, she lied to you years ago because she made a mistake and loved you and didnt want to lose you. She kept the same lie going for years to protect you, her and your family. 

Go to marriage counselling and learn how to get back to where you were or let it go. Aside from this, you sound like you have a wonderful life.

Is it really worth all of the pain and heartache that is going to come over the lie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## naiveonedave

xMadame said:


> You think that she is a liar because of this one lie?
> Op, she lied to you years ago because she made a mistake and loved you and didnt want to lose you. She kept the same lie going for years to protect you, her and your family.
> 
> Go to marriage counselling and learn how to get back to where you were or let it go. Aside from this, you sound like you have a wonderful life.
> 
> Is it really worth all of the pain and heartache that is going to come over the lie?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that is the problem with lying. How many more lies did she do? No one knows. She could have had 100 OM or just the one. The OP can't assume to know.


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## TRy

xMadame said:


> Op, she lied to you years ago because she made a mistake and loved you and didnt want to lose you. She kept the same lie going for years to protect you, her and your family.


 If it really was that "She kept the same lie going for years to protect" the OP as you say, that would be one thing. But the new lie that it was OK for her to stay in contact with him as a Facebook freind because he was just a friend that she never had sex with blows that whole thinking up.


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## hubbydude

TDSC60 said:


> As a result of that one night 40 years ago I have never again had 100% unquestioning trust in my wife. I do not think anyone should ever trust their spouse 100% and not ask questions and when they do have doubts about the answers, they should continue to investigate. This outlook has worked for me for 40 years and it might work for you.


So, we talked last night and your paragraph above describes exactly where I'm at.

Here's the update, you'll love this......

I was fully expecting her take the line that this was an isolated incident 20 years ago and we should try to forget about it and move on. I was looking for remorse, both for the cheating and for the 20 years of lying. Instead, she actually claimed that she didn't sleep with him, that she didn't mean what she said on Saturday night, that she was drunk and doesn't know why she said it. She's actually going with the line that the "drunk" her made the whole thing up, and that it's the "sober" her who's been telling the truth. I was genuinely stunned and totally unprepared for that.

And I don't believe a word of it, not a single word! I am 99% convinced that there are more lies, large and small, that I won't ever know and I'm choosing not to pursue them. I'm 99% convinced that she has never cheated since we got married. Her words in fact, were that there were absolutely no indiscretions "since we've been engaged". She didn't say that there were no other indiscretions besides this one, just that there were no indiscretions "since we've been engaged". A significant difference, and when I pointed out the distinction to her she didn't take the opportunity to change her words.

Bottom line, I'm convinced that she f**ked him. I'm convinced that she lied about it and continues to lie about it now. I'm convinced that the younger me's impression of her was very far from reality and my estimation and respect for her now is less than it was a week ago. Importantly, she knows that I don't believe her. I told her that I fully expect that there are other lies which I'll never know and that I won't ever fully trust her 100% without question. But I do believe that she has been completely faithful for the past 17 / 18 years and I told her that I'm willing to go along with her story since it's frankly the only way we can move forward. What other choice do I have other than leaving her?

She knows she's lost some of my respect, and truth be told some of my love for her. But I'm choosing to move forward with my eyes wide open. It's not a fairy story by any means, but it's the choice I'm making.

Is it the right choice? Should I keep asking questions?


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## manfromlamancha

This update is incredible to say the least!! Having said that, I have come across this type of liar before - basically you can trust very little of what she says anytime - there maybe something pathologically wrong with her but the bottom line is she doesn't want you to have any thing over her or any stick to beat her with (her thinking not the truth).

She told you (drunken or not) and you had already been through the pain and aftermath. Now why would she retract this ?

If she was truly remorseful and guilty, she would have been glad that she got this off her chest. However, she knew that this would get you questioning all the other "doubts" you have been having and she didn't want to deal with that. Confirms (in my mind at least) that there were other secrets that haven't come out and once your one gut feel is confirmed, she knew you would go after all the others.

Bottom line is your wife is a professional liar and pretty selfish at that (she puts her needs first above all else).

You say you will never trust her again, and have lost some respect and love for her. (I don't know about the love side of it but I would say that you have probably lost ALL respect for her).

Why would you continue to live with someone like this ? Codependence ? Some other fear ? Why ?


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## TRy

hubbydude said:


> Is it the right choice? Should I keep asking questions?


 You do realize that by asking us "Is it the right choice? Should I keep asking questions?", you still have questions in your heart about this. You are now just deciding if you want to stick your head in the sand or not. That is your call. You will not be the first married person to do so. There is no right or wrong here, only what works best for you. It is your life do not feel pressured by anyone here. 

Regardless, going forward she needs to agree to the following. Full no contact with this OM for the rest of her life which includes immediately unfriending him from Facebook. Mutual full transparency where both of you agree to such things as sharing all passwords and mutual full access to all things such as phones, computers, files, records, etc without complaint.


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## Bananapeel

I have a general belief that people tend to react to stressful situations in a handful of ways. One way is to lie and people that do that instinctually will do it far more than you can prove. If you can live with that, then more power to you. There are lots of ways to have a marriage and different ways work for different people. As long as you are making this choice without deceiving yourself about her, then it is a reasonable way to proceed.


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## Lostinthought61

will she agree to a polygraph to investigate those dating period...the fact she omitted any time before engagement...i would focus on that....remind her that she has lied for the past 20 years...that would constitute no respect for you or your relationship for 20 years....that is bull****...go forward ? not yet


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## VladDracul

Once you know your spouse was involved in an affair, what is the real purpose behind the questions? I've heard folks say its to get all the information. But how will you ever know that's all the information. Besides, after you've established whether it was emotional or they slept together two or three times, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out what transpired. Why not just look at a worse case scenario where they got and gave the full monty and decide if you can live with them after that. Rest assured that in virtually all cases, the AP got at least as much as you as a minimum. My experience is that when women folk step out, its like a caged animal escaping and they go for broke. Hence, the reason you see these post about some guys wife doing the male stripper right out in the open.


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## ConanHub

hubbydude said:


> So, we talked last night and your paragraph above describes exactly where I'm at.
> 
> Here's the update, you'll love this......
> 
> I was fully expecting her take the line that this was an isolated incident 20 years ago and we should try to forget about it and move on. I was looking for remorse, both for the cheating and for the 20 years of lying. Instead, she actually claimed that she didn't sleep with him, that she didn't mean what she said on Saturday night, that she was drunk and doesn't know why she said it. She's actually going with the line that the "drunk" her made the whole thing up, and that it's the "sober" her who's been telling the truth. I was genuinely stunned and totally unprepared for that.
> 
> And I don't believe a word of it, not a single word! I am 99% convinced that there are more lies, large and small, that I won't ever know and I'm choosing not to pursue them. I'm 99% convinced that she has never cheated since we got married. Her words in fact, were that there were absolutely no indiscretions "since we've been engaged". She didn't say that there were no other indiscretions besides this one, just that there were no indiscretions "since we've been engaged". A significant difference, and when I pointed out the distinction to her she didn't take the opportunity to change her words.
> 
> Bottom line, I'm convinced that she f**ked him. I'm convinced that she lied about it and continues to lie about it now. I'm convinced that the younger me's impression of her was very far from reality and my estimation and respect for her now is less than it was a week ago. Importantly, she knows that I don't believe her. I told her that I fully expect that there are other lies which I'll never know and that I won't ever fully trust her 100% without question. But I do believe that she has been completely faithful for the past 17 / 18 years and I told her that I'm willing to go along with her story since it's frankly the only way we can move forward. What other choice do I have other than leaving her?
> 
> She knows she's lost some of my respect, and truth be told some of my love for her. But I'm choosing to move forward with my eyes wide open. It's not a fairy story by any means, but it's the choice I'm making.
> 
> Is it the right choice? Should I keep asking questions?


Could try a polygraph but up to you.

You are the only one who can answer that question.

I don't go for infidelity or dishonesty. I might stay but she would have to put up with scrutinizing our entire relationship until I was satisfied.

She is easily being crooked about pre engagement ****ing around.


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## ABHale

hubbydude said:


> So, we talked last night and your paragraph above describes exactly where I'm at.
> 
> Here's the update, you'll love this......
> 
> I was fully expecting her take the line that this was an isolated incident 20 years ago and we should try to forget about it and move on. I was looking for remorse, both for the cheating and for the 20 years of lying. Instead, she actually claimed that she didn't sleep with him, that she didn't mean what she said on Saturday night, that she was drunk and doesn't know why she said it. She's actually going with the line that the "drunk" her made the whole thing up, and that it's the "sober" her who's been telling the truth. I was genuinely stunned and totally unprepared for that.
> 
> And I don't believe a word of it, not a single word! I am 99% convinced that there are more lies, large and small, that I won't ever know and I'm choosing not to pursue them. I'm 99% convinced that she has never cheated since we got married. Her words in fact, were that there were absolutely no indiscretions "since we've been engaged". She didn't say that there were no other indiscretions besides this one, just that there were no indiscretions "since we've been engaged". A significant difference, and when I pointed out the distinction to her she didn't take the opportunity to change her words.
> 
> Bottom line, I'm convinced that she f**ked him. I'm convinced that she lied about it and continues to lie about it now. I'm convinced that the younger me's impression of her was very far from reality and my estimation and respect for her now is less than it was a week ago. Importantly, she knows that I don't believe her. I told her that I fully expect that there are other lies which I'll never know and that I won't ever fully trust her 100% without question. But I do believe that she has been completely faithful for the past 17 / 18 years and I told her that I'm willing to go along with her story since it's frankly the only way we can move forward. What other choice do I have other than leaving her?
> 
> She knows she's lost some of my respect, and truth be told some of my love for her. But I'm choosing to move forward with my eyes wide open. It's not a fairy story by any means, but it's the choice I'm making.
> 
> Is it the right choice? Should I keep asking questions?


 It is totally up to you. You can either live with it or not. You now know your wife is a lier that has been lying to you for a long time. So why would you believe her about anything dealing with being faithful to you. 

You do have a discussion to make. Either put it behind you for now on or move on. If you keep nagging at her about it she might move on.


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## nursejackie

VladDracul said:


> I don't know Jackie; I have questions about whether folks tell to help relieve themselves with guilt, to "help" the marriage, give the spouse opportunity to leave or stay, or for some other reason. In your case, based on the way you describe it, I personally think he'd been better off not knowing. Did your lie by omission cause you pain that you had to relieve? Could it be that once you come clean about your "misdemeanors" it allowed you to shed your guilt because the responsibility was now his to do something about it if he so desired? If the argument holds true that only the disloyal spouse is responsible for the affair, how does that square with pain and suffering he went through after you took corrective action decades earlier? Despite the weight off your shoulders by confessing your sins, did your husband really gain anything by it?


I absolutely agree with you. There were many reasons why I didnt tell- shame, fear of abandonment, MC told me not to, selfishness....there were many reasons why I ultimately disclosed- I thought H was having an A with a coworker and wanted him to disclose, TAM members strongly encouraged me to- to start our marriage over in truth, to give H choices based on reality, but also to lessen my guilt.

I felt terrible guilt which was translated into dysfunction in the marriage. How could I think I deserved the marriage if I knew that I wasnt worthy of it? At the beginning H said that he wished I had never told him, he was equally as unhappy that I had never told him- and that he had not been given the choice to stay or leave all those years ago.

I was responsible for the affair, we are both responsible for the state of the marriage. Because of this crisis we have gone to MC/IC. We are learning to love each other in a new way- one that appreciates and forgives and is kind. So that part is good.


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## sokillme

VladDracul said:


> I don't know Jackie; I have questions about whether folks tell to help relieve themselves with guilt, to "help" the marriage, give the spouse opportunity to leave or stay, or for some other reason. In your case, based on the way you describe it, I personally think he'd been better off not knowing. Did your lie by omission cause you pain that you had to relieve? Could it be that once you come clean about your "misdemeanors" it allowed you to shed your guilt because the responsibility was now his to do something about it if he so desired? If the argument holds true that only the disloyal spouse is responsible for the affair, how does that square with pain and suffering he went through after you took corrective action decades earlier? Despite the weight off your shoulders by confessing your sins, did your husband really gain anything by it?


It's the right thing to do because he has the right to make the choice to stay with her or not. If I found out my wife cheated even years ago I would leave. I can't be married to a cheater, just can't. Her husband has a right to decide the course of his own life, and who he spends it with.


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## Thor

hubbydude said:


> She knows she's lost some of my respect, and truth be told some of my love for her. But I'm choosing to move forward with my eyes wide open. It's not a fairy story by any means, but it's the choice I'm making.
> 
> Is it the right choice? Should I keep asking questions?


My opinion, no not the right choice. You're choosing to rug sweep.

Your gut is telling you there are many other lies. Trust your gut! As I said before, she is who she is. There is zero indication that she has changed in any way from being a liar. Which means lying is still within her universe of tools to use within the marriage when it suits her.

Your gut tells you she is not worthy of your trust. If she isn't trust-worthy, how can you continue your marriage with her?

I tried just like you are. But the loss of trust can never be overcome if she doesn't prove she has changed to become trustworthy. In my case my wife made several choices to lie even after everything blew up, and they were major issues. In some ways far greater issues!

Your marriage isn't going to change unless you make something about it change. She will remain who she is, capable of what she is capable of. How you feel about all of this today, and how you've had your doubts all these years? That's going to continue indefinitely into the future, perhaps even more acutely. So the question is do you want to stay in _this_ marriage the way it is forever? Is this acceptable to you? Not the cheating, but the absence of trust.


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## sokillme

xMadame said:


> You think that she is a liar because of this one lie?
> Op, she lied to you years ago because she made a mistake and loved you and didnt want to lose you. She kept the same lie going for years to protect you, her and your family.
> 
> Go to marriage counselling and learn how to get back to where you were or let it go. Aside from this, you sound like you have a wonderful life.
> 
> Is it really worth all of the pain and heartache that is going to come over the lie?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This sounds like rug-sweep and settling. She lied to him over and over for 20 years! It's certainly not one lie. It' a very big lie that probably changed the whole course of his life and took away his right to an informed choice for his whole future. By the way and shows her character. People lie or they live their life authentically his wife is now a proven liar for selfish reasons. Do I think they need to break up, that is up to OP but calling it one lie is just a mischaracterization.


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## drifter777

You are satisfied with her lie because you understand that she simply cannot say the words. She knows you know - that's whats important to her right now. There is nothing more she wants to do right now than to leave this in the past and never speak of it again. Its every cheaters fervent prayer. 

If you think about it, when she told you about sharing the bed she told you they had sex - no adults share a bed without having sex. She simply cannot bring herself to say the words and I guess your ok with that.

I commend you for your diligence - you knew something was wrong with her story and you were right. I hope you can be at peace now but I'm afraid the fact that lying for 20 years - and still refusing to admit the truth - is simply not going to sit well with you over time. Your just tired of it right now and willing to call a truce...


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## Thor

manfromlamancha said:


> She told you (drunken or not) and you had already been through the pain and aftermath. Now why would she retract this ?
> 
> If she was truly remorseful and guilty, she would have been glad that she got this off her chest. However, she knew that this would get you questioning all the other "doubts" you have been having and she didn't want to deal with that. Confirms (in my mind at least) that there were other secrets that haven't come out and once your one gut feel is confirmed, she knew you would go after all the others.


Exactly. If I said something to my spouse which caused them enormous pain, I'd feel so terrible about it. If I falsely admitted to cheating I would be horrified at the fallout when I saw what it was. What I've not seen described in this thread is the W showing any sign of true remorse for the cheating or for a false confession. If she were blowing snot bubbles at OP's feet begging for his forgiveness for having hurt him (either the cheating or the false confession), there might be hope.

I just see her as a pathological person who lacks empathy and who is easily capable of lying. Note: When someone is skilled at lying it means they get a lot of practice at it!


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## sokillme

hubbydude said:


> So, we talked last night and your paragraph above describes exactly where I'm at.
> 
> Here's the update, you'll love this......
> 
> I was fully expecting her take the line that this was an isolated incident 20 years ago and we should try to forget about it and move on. I was looking for remorse, both for the cheating and for the 20 years of lying. Instead, she actually claimed that she didn't sleep with him, that she didn't mean what she said on Saturday night, that she was drunk and doesn't know why she said it. She's actually going with the line that the "drunk" her made the whole thing up, and that it's the "sober" her who's been telling the truth. I was genuinely stunned and totally unprepared for that.
> 
> And I don't believe a word of it, not a single word! I am 99% convinced that there are more lies, large and small, that I won't ever know and I'm choosing not to pursue them.


Your past history of pursuing this for 20 years and your posts here say you are going to fail at this miserably, that is not a judgement of you, many of us would rightfully feel the same. I don't believe it is in your nature to just let this go, if it was you would have already. You would do better to get a polygraph and tell your wife that you can't live like this anymore. I don't think you will make it if you don't. I get that you are trying to put on a brave face but you have to be realistic with who you are and where you are at.

The unbelievably of your wife's deceptions are not making it any easier. There are some people who just lie until they can't anymore because the truth is right in front of them. There is a post on SI/W from a guy who says he did that. This may be your wife. If that is the case, that is very scary.


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## Thor

VladDracul said:


> Once you know your spouse was involved in an affair, what is the real purpose behind the questions? I've heard folks say its to get all the information. But how will you ever know that's all the information.


For me, I felt that in order to feel trust after being betrayed that I needed to hear my wife tell me all the stuff she was trying to hide. I guess it was a process thing, where hearing her tell uncomfortable truths would give some assurance that she had changed and would be honest in the future.

It is a capitulation, where the betrayer fully surrenders to the betrayed. If the betrayer continues to be shifty or belligerent, there is no warm fuzzy feeling they will be faithful in the future.


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## farsidejunky

Thor said:


> For me, I felt that in order to feel trust after being betrayed that I needed to hear my wife tell me all the stuff she was trying to hide. I guess it was a process thing, where hearing her tell uncomfortable truths would give some assurance that she had changed and would be honest in the future.
> 
> It is a capitulation, where the betrayer fully surrenders to the betrayed. If the betrayer continues to be shifty or belligerent, there is no warm fuzzy feeling they will be faithful in the future.


QFT.


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## sokillme

nursejackie said:


> I absolutely agree with you. There were many reasons why I didnt tell- shame, fear of abandonment, MC told me not to, selfishness....there were many reasons why I ultimately disclosed- I thought H was having an A with a coworker and wanted him to disclose, TAM members strongly encouraged me to- to start our marriage over in truth, to give H choices based on reality, but also to lessen my guilt.
> 
> I felt terrible guilt which was translated into dysfunction in the marriage. How could I think I deserved the marriage if I knew that I wasnt worthy of it? At the beginning H said that he wished I had never told him, he was equally as unhappy that I had never told him- and that he had not been given the choice to stay or leave all those years ago.
> 
> I was responsible for the affair, we are both responsible for the state of the marriage. Because of this crisis we have gone to MC/IC. We are learning to love each other in a new way- one that appreciates and forgives and is kind. So that part is good.


How can you say you are both responsible for the state of the marriage when you say also that you unable to put your all into the marriage? That is not an excuse for his cheating but it sounds like your cheating messed up the marriage from the very beginning. You don't suppose that that contributed to his dissatisfaction? He was wrong to cheat, but sounds like he didn't have a chance to have a good marriage because of the cheating. I am not judging you I am trying to understand how you can say both things, it doesn't make sense. 

In a broader sense this is why it is truly unfair for a cheating spouse to continue to hide it even if it is long over. It is just disingenuous to think that infidelity doesn't deeply affect a relationship even if only one party knows about it. The BS has a right to have there spouse fully engaged in the relationship with them, not racked with guilt every time the BS say I love you or whatever. 

Every act except confession is a selfish act after a spouse has cheated.


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## Rubix Cubed

@hubbydude ,
You rugwept this 18 years ago, you rugswept 2 years ago, and you sound like you intend to do it again. This obviously eats at you and that plan is a failure. 
If you intend to stay with her , she should have to take a poly including has she had any sexual contact since you met, since you married, and PIV since you met, with anyone but you. As you likely know you likely will get confessions immediately before the polygraph , and you STILL won't have the whole story. Carry through with it and another one if the first leads to more unanswered questions. If it was me this would eat me alive, no way I could live with it. You need to know the truth or at least that she won't willingly give it to you (but I guess you already know that).
Best of luck, and keep posting.


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## SnowToArmPits

hubbydude said:


> But telling me now, 20 years later, happily married, 2 kids, what am I to do with that?


Well how about this - feel good inside you've been happily married for 14 years, that's a long time. And you've raised two kids together.

Yes it sucks have this suspicion for 20 years, and have it fester away inside. You can get really mad about it for another 20 years, fair enough. Or, maybe it's time you let it go?

Look I'm being obtuse here on purpose, you're right it sucks big time to find your wife cheated 20 years ago, really sucks. But it was 20 years ago is all I'm saying.

- If you think your wife may still be cheating on you, consider a polygraph to get some peace of mind. 

- I may have missed this in your long thread if you've contacted the OM, but I'd advise against phoning the OM after 20 years. You're going feel pathetic asking another man - "did you **** my girlfriend / wife 20 years ago".

Some counseling for you could help, help to get a game plan in place - how can you move past this and get some peace of mind? And if you can't move past it, what are your next steps. Don't let this fester away for another 20 years, life's too short. Move past it or move on, do something.

Sorry to hear this is happening to you.


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## TaDor

@hubbydude : Sorry for the situation. How you are handling it now, is not how you imagined it. Same here for me and most others. I think hollywood and romance novels make it a simple thing. Some couples take it in stride and others are devastated.

There are a few issues here you need to consider strongly.

1 - 18~21yr old brains are STUPID. I see this in adults today, I can reflect on myself and other teenagers. Logic and thinking goes out the window when there is drinking. It took her getting drunk and saying it for that to happen. Sorry, but DRINKING caused people to OPEN up and talk more - not come up with big life changing lies. 

2 - So in that regard, she did a stupid teen thing... and what we KNOW nowadays, is that people really shouldn't be getting married/LTR until the age of 25+ and *I* strongly believe that. You've been together for 20 years... which is very successful. But *IF* this is the one and ONLY time she ever cheated (and her words are somewhat disturbing) - then I say its something you should let go... kind of. Forgive the indiscretion of a drunk teenager... as stated above, she hase LIVED with the lie all this time. It didn't matter much to her as much as YOU did to her. But you are stuck with a double-edge sword here, 20 years of a lie, which should have been resolved. Its odd that she should friend him on FB, but it could have been innocent. I am FB friends with many women I have had past sexual/dating relationships with but with ZERO threat of romantic hook-ups, even thou some live a few minutes away.

3 - So the IMPORTANT thing is... has she done anything sexual with anyone since you were both engaged? If she has been faithful to you all this time, then don't throw away the marriage.

4 - DO NOT RUG-SWEEP! You have already proven to me (and likely everyone here) that you cannot do it. It has bothered you for 20 years that she MIGHT have slept with the OM. Now that YOU DO KNOW, and she lied about it... NOW, its going to EAT at you every day. Worse than before. My wife cheated on me from OCT-2015 ~ May 2016. I still hurt from it. The effects of it on myself and our child is still there, even thou we are doing quite well today.

SO *YOU* should locate and see a therapist to work out your thoughts and especially a MC (Marriage Counselor) in order to repair the damage that has been done. If you *DO NOT* go to MC, I feel your marriage is most likely doomed. So do you LOVE your wife and want to keep the marriage?

If NO = go find a lawyer and prepare to file against her. Go to IC (individual counseling), go to the gym - work out almost every day and rebuild. You are 37~38 years old, you are quite young still! I was 40 when I meet my a 25yr old who would be my future wife, we've been together for 6 years now and have my first child a few years ago. I was dating 20~25 something year old women easily. Its not about age, I dated a 20 yr old a week or so before I meet my wife. And during the time I was "on the market" in 2016, I was getting hit on by some women at 22 and 28 yrs old, and of course older 

If YES = Then no more lies. You need to tell your wife that the revelation IS like it happened YESTERDAY to YOU. What was said, has already happened. Be a man about this:
"Honey, I've known you for 20 years and YOU have never been one to make up a BIG lie or a little lie while drunk. I always suspected sex since you confessed to me 20 years ago. I can understand you making a mistake and being ashamed of your actions back then. But if you continue to lie and or had sex with other men since then - then our marriage is doomed. Do you love me and want to stay married? Yes or no? If yes, then no lies, no more. 

I've been talking to other men in a local support group who have been cheated on. And being HONEST has saved marriages and with some of these guys, it was a lot more than just a single mistake one drunken night and the cheaters have gone into sexual details if the betrayed husbands wanted to know. So if its more than one guy that one night, you need to confess now, because right now - I don't TRUST YOU! How am I going to trust you again? And if I find out the truth later, then I cannot be with you. But right now, I love you and want us to be together forever... and that is going to be up to you.

Now, if you are afraid to talk about it right this moment (do NOT put her on the spot now) - then perhaps we can talk about this with a MC, which I can setup to see next week (whenever). Either way, an MC is required for us to stay married... to help us communicate and share our thoughts."

My wife and I needed MC. We are also reading books. It's work in progress.

Every once in a while, I check on my wife's data/comm traffic - not out of "suspecting" but more of a random schedule as my *GUT* isn't feeling anything is wrong. So far, she is very honest and things are as they should be. My trust isn't 100%, never will be... but I'll be happy with 99%. I know now, it won't ever be 100% with ANYONE, ever again.

Think about idiot logic. Bachelor and bachelorette parties are common and many times it's the LAST TIME the groom and bride can "legally" have sex with others (whatever idiot ideas) and its "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." mentality. Doing something with strippers, prostitutes or etc... is "normal"?? nope, its still cheating. The only time I want to have some fun with a stripper is *WHEN* my wife is with me... that was fun, we've done it twice and with other friends.

Good luck... just remember, YOU CANNOT rug sweep this.
She cheated on you, now you know for sure. It will not GO away... if you try, it will drive you nutty and you may hate her.


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## Diana7

No one, drunk or not, is going to admit to an affair they didnt have. Trouble is that you may struggle to believe her and trust her on other issues because you know she is lying about this.


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## phillybeffandswiss

I agree with a bunch saying let it go. I'd actually be on their side except for two reasons:
Drunk admission.
Facebook.
Flip Flop.

I'd be inclined to contact OM, but it is way too late. One it is old and if they were in contact he has already been warned.

Look you have to make a choice is the 20 years good enough or not? Think long and then make a decisions, there is no supreme rush. Asking us is going to get triggers, omissions and different advice. Nope, I am not saying it is good or bad, but it is all based on our experiences which are similar. Yet, they are in our worlds not yours.


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## LosingHim

Part of me really wants to say “It was 20 years ago, get over it”. But then another part of me understands, considering I was just cheated on 5 weeks ago and I can understand the pain. However, since I’ve discovered my husbands transgressions numerous times over 11+ years, after the initial shock, this one doesn’t hurt so bad. I mean it hurts, and it hurts something awful, but I’m used to it. How F’d up is that? So yeah, at any rate, part of me is screaming inside to just let it go for Gods sake. So what, your wife screwed some other guy 20 years ago, before you got married, before you had 20 years of what comes across as bliss. Big deal. She was probably a really good wife those 20 years, realized what she did at the time and hasn’t done it since, because after all, she did what most cheaters DON’T do and that’s admit what they did without being caught. 

But then there’s the part that smacks me in the face. She lied about sleeping with him. Most likely, she admitted to you that she messed around with the guy to throw you off the scent that she actually slept with him, and she continued that lie for 20 YEARS. Trust me on this, ya see, I’m a cheater too. So I totally get the trickle truth and the lies to cover up things and throw you off the scent. Know what I told my husband? “I swear on my kids life I didn’t have sex with him”. Because I DIDN’T have sex with him. I performed oral sex. But I knew by telling my husband that I swore that I didn’t have INTERCOURSE, he would get off the entire trail of sex in any way, shape or form. I purposely told an obtuse lie to throw him off the scent. You see, that’s what cheaters DO. 

I came clean 2 years later with everything that I did. 30 seconds of drunken oral sex with his best friend that I stopped. It happened one time. Do you know what has damaged my husband the most? That I lied about it for 2 years and told him it was just a kiss. Not the oral sex, not the fact that it was his best friend. But the fact that I lied about it for 2 years. THAT was the true betrayal in his opinion. He’s said numerous times that had I come home, told him that I drunkenly got caught up in all this smooth talking and schmoozing, his friend made a move on me and I reciprocated before I realized it was wrong and stopped – that he and I would probably be in a better place today. Instead, I chose the cowards path, got caught through text messages, told a half truth for 2 years and then came clean when my marriage blew up. That’s what did the damage. 

And I think that’s what I and everyone else here needs to understand. I don’t think it’s so much that you are angry/hurt by the sex that happened 20 years ago, but maybe moreso by the betrayal of being lied to for 20 years. That is not something to say “oh it happened 20 years ago, get over it” to. And IMO that’s what you need to address with your wife. Not the sex, or really even the fact that she cheated 20 years ago, but the continued lie and betrayal of trust for 20 years.


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## bigfoot

Let's look at this sequentially.

20 years ago she admits to having sex with some guy before you were engaged. It was so awesome that she never did it again, denies having gotten her "jollies" which I interpret as she denies having an orgasm. She gets engaged to you, marries you, has kids with you and now you are upset.

I get it totally. Be pissed off. Yell. Tell her that had you known that she was a worthless girlfriend, then you would have most likely, maybe, have broken up with her. After the life you've built together, once you'd proposed and subsequently married her and she's been faithful throughout, you question your love for her.

Seriously, I'd be pissed if my wife told me she cheated before we got married. Even after we got engaged. I tend to look at things a little differently. It is going to sound ridiculous to some but here goes: If she cheated once before she said, "I do", then I would let it go. If she cheated after you were married, I'd question whether to remain, even if we had 30 years of life between the last event. Pre-marital cheating with a 20 year gap in between does not rise that high on my meter.

I'd rant, I'd rave. I'd express sadness. I'd let her know that if I had found out then, I would have tossed her like garbage and never looked back. I'd let her know that I felt that she lied to me and she got what she wanted, but I did not get what I wanted...a faithful girlfriend to make my faithful wife. Instead, I got a lying cheating girlfriend who I hope has been a faithful wife. That she is going to have to convince me that she has been faithful as a wife because I am questioning everything. Then I'd tell her that she needs to get to work because an unmarried cheating woman is about to mess up a 20 year marriage. 

Then I'd tell myself to put things in perspective and prepare myself to move on with staying married no unmarried woman's actions from 20 years ago is worth ruining my life today.


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## TAMAT

I think one of the central issues here for hubbydude is that his WW has almost never shown any passion for him during the entire marriage and the sex has been mostly utilitarian. 

I concluded this from reading his earlier posts, but hd can add some correction if he is still reading.

The affair has had a long term devastating effect on his sex life as HD was his WWs second choice. So while the affair was so long ago the effects have never gone away.

WW may have told HD that it's not him it's me, when what she should have said was "it is you because you are not OM" 

It's not that we live in the past but that the past lives in us.

Tamat


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