# "Affair -proof?"



## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I was looking , the other day at another website, that claims that if you follow their procedures, you will be able to , "affair-proof", your post-cheating marriage. Does anybody really think that this is possible?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Silly to assume such absolutes


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## BettyBoop (Apr 2, 2012)

Do you have a link?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'd imagine there would be stringent conditions that both spouses would have to abide by for it to work, thus if both people want it bad enough they will accomplish it, really isn't rocket science


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

I don't see how, but that doesn't stop a couple from taking steps to try to ensure it doesn't happen, establishing firm boundaries, and keeping lines of communication always open.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I've heard of this before. And it is basically saying that if you are both meeting eachothers' needs, nobody will cheat.

But the thing is: some people will cheat no matter what if they make the choice to.

Like AR said, absolutes shmabsolutes.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

You may contribute to a good marriage you may reduce the chances your spouse find cheating a good option but you can't "affair-proof" a marriage (pre or post affair). I never liked this notion. It's void of the individual factor.
You can only "affair-proof" yourself. It's proven fact your spouse,. very happy with you and the marriage can start an full blown affair after a drunken flirty night, j*ust because*.


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

Badblood said:


> I was looking , the other day at another website, that claims that if you follow their procedures, you will be able to , "affair-proof", your post-cheating marriage. Does anybody really think that this is possible?


No. That being said I think you can do things that would make it less likely to occur again. But I'm interested to see this procedure. Who wouldn't like to think it could NEVER happen again?


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

isnt that a dr harley book or something ?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well I Googled and Dr. Harley, Dr. Phil, Oprah, and some Neuman guy all came up under "Affair proof your marriage."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Acabado said:


> You can only "affair-proof" yourself.


Exactly. 

All you can do is do your best and hope your spouse does, too. 

It's all about the boundaries, babie (hehe I have "It's all about the benjamins, baby") stuck in my head.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

BettyBoop said:


> Do you have a link?


Marriage Builders


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

i knew Dr Harley had something to do with it lol


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

In_The_Wind said:


> isnt that a dr harley book or something ?


Yep, It's the Harley's website, and while I happen to think that a LOT of his ideas are spot on, I don't believe in the "affair-proofing", business at all. There are too many examples of reconciliation gone bad, or emotional attachment to the AP, for me to believe in this sort of absolute.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Dr. Phil is a clown.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Yep, It's the Harley's website, and while I happen to think that a LOT of his ideas are spot on, I don't believe in the "affair-proofing", business at all. There are too many examples of reconciliation gone bad, or emotional attachment to the AP, for me to believe in this sort of absolute.


i disagree with his approach on nicing the wayward partner although he does have some other good ideals that is my opinion


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

No such thing as affair proof but you can avoid occasions of it such as GNO/BNO, meeting opposite sex friends alone, meeting co workers after work w/ out spouse etc


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

It wouldn't be difficult at all to affair proof your marriage. All it requires is a set of handcuffs to make sure you know what's going on with your partner at all times.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

IDK, but I'm pretty sure that chaining your spouse up is against the law. LOL


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

maybe not in Texas and Utah


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> maybe not in Texas and Utah


Everything's legal in Utah. Leash laws are applicable to spouses , in Utah.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

The only sure way I can think of to affair proof your marriage involves a chastity belt, a closet, and a padlock. But that method might also get you 20 years in a federal pen.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> The only sure way I can think of to affair proof your marriage involves a chastity belt, a closet, and a padlock. But that method might also get you 20 years in a federal pen.


I suppose this concludes the thread.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Not at all, I haven't finished bashing Utah , yet. Utah is where Californians go to get punished for their sins. Utah is the "Saudi Arabia", of America. I could go on>


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

People in Utah think Hitler was a Liberal.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

BB are you purposely trying to get banned?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> BB are you purposely trying to get banned?


Nope, just trying to have a little fun.  I've never heard of being banned for disrespecting a State?


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Nope, just trying to have a little fun.  I've never heard of being banned for disrespecting a State?


I was thinking about the reference to a certain mass murderer.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Yep, It's the Harley's website, and while I happen to think that a LOT of his ideas are spot on, I don't believe in the "affair-proofing", business at all. There are too many examples of reconciliation gone bad, or emotional attachment to the AP, for me to believe in this sort of absolute.


I've seen it and while I'll defer to you more knowledgeable people here about the effectiveness of it, I do believe that it's worth trying, especially if your spouse hasn't crossed the line yet. I try to practice the advice as much as possible.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

The Middleman said:


> I've seen it and while I'll defer to you more knowledgeable people here about the effectiveness of it, I do believe that it's worth trying, especially if you spouse hasn't crossed the line yet. I try to practice the advice as much as possible.


Middleman, I definitely think that as a preventative, the ideas of Dr. Harley have a lot of value.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I was thinking about the reference to a certain mass murderer.


Monte, the guy's been dead for 72 years, I think it's ok to laugh at him, by now.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

When I was recovering post D-day from my husband's revenge EA, I instituted some things that I learned from TAM and some things that I learned from Marriage Builders.

Now, is my marriage affair proof? No. Anyone can cheat at any given time. I learned that the hard way.

I would think the best thing to do during R is to establish your own boundaries. Follow through with the consequences. Don't offer a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance. I don't really think an R is possible with a serial cheater, and, if you lax on the boundaries (and rugsweep), there is really no reason for a cake-eater to stop eating. After all, he or she got away with it. What's stopping them getting away with it again?


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Sure, got the solution... a good friend of mine married a beautiful Tongan woman. She was one of 15 children (2 sisters and 13 brothers)... Long story short all of her brothers could easily make up either the offensive or defensive line of any NFL team. He pretty much knows that if cheats on her, it will be the last time he does


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Even before I found out about Regret's affair, I still would've not believed one could "affair-proof" a marriage. 

The one and only thing I've learned over the last 6 months is what works is honesty. And THAT begins within. Which, Regret will admit openly, can be difficult.

Truth and honesty to me creates loyalty. In that, one can create a more certain atmosphere that an affair is less likely.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Badblood said:


> I was looking , the other day at another website, that claims that if you follow their procedures, you will be able to , "affair-proof", your post-cheating marriage. Does anybody really think that this is possible?


What's it called: "The Titanic Guarantee?"

Or: "Waiter, there's too much ice in my Scotch."


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I like a lot of what Dr. Harley writes. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure he emphasizes that there are NO garauntees against infidelity. Only that one can reduce risks.

This affair proof crapola is marketing hype.

That said, his writings are worth the look IMO.

I am not a big believer in Plan A. I can see plan A for a very short period when dealing with an EA. Looking back on it now I can say that may wife was actually very loving and understanding with me yet firm. She did not pull a 180 for example. She did not go Plan B. She did not need to in my case. But no I think a spouse putting up with a spouse who is having sex with someone else and being nice to them as a prelude to Plan B I think is demeaning. He even says that past a certain point this is damaging.

Harley has even indicated that to him a PA was an immediate deal breaker.

The thing is so few people understand EAs and boundaries that this alone is worth reading what he has to say.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Affair-proof?


Just like this bullet proof vest?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)




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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

Hearing the concept of "affair-proof" reminds me of waterproofing a basement.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> Even before I found out about Regret's affair, I still would've not believed one could "affair-proof" a marriage.
> 
> The one and only thing I've learned over the last 6 months is what works is honesty. And THAT begins within. Which, Regret will admit openly, can be difficult.
> 
> Truth and honesty to me creates loyalty. In that, one can create a more certain atmosphere that an affair is less likely.


Wel, It certainly helps, that's for sure, but I feel the same . NEVER, EVER, is a long time, and I think the warranty runs out before then.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Another tool used is a Post-Nup, it doesn't prevent cheating but makes the cheater pay up . If , of course you live in a State that allows such things.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Dr. Phil is a clown.


 Yes! I full heartily agree. I have much dislike for him.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Being from Utah..........OMG! All the comments just made me LMFAO!

I plead the fifth if you ask me if the comments are in fact correct however


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Falene said:


> Hearing the concept of "affair-proof" reminds me of waterproofing a basement.


Yep! If it floods, the bloody water can't get out!:rofl:


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Badblood said:


> IDK, but I'm pretty sure that chaining your spouse up is against the law. LOL


When I said you could affair proof your marriage with a set of hand cuffs I meant if you were prepared to handcuff yourself to your spouse you could probably ensure no affair takes place.

Short of that you have to be able to trust them. If they can't be trusted around other people in your absence than quite frankly they're not marriage material.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Maybe the term "affair proof" is a bit like hype but I think it's worth reading. Hell, it's a lot cheaper than counseling which also produces mixed results.

I don't like being fatalistic with that thought "if he wants to cheat, then he will." Well, maybe if I install some boundaries I will know about it sooner than later, and better still, before we even get married. Isn't that worth something?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Maybe the term "affair proof" is a bit like hype but I think it's worth reading. Hell, it's a lot cheaper than counseling which also produces mixed results.
> 
> I don't like being fatalistic with that thought "if he wants to cheat, then he will." Well, maybe if I install some boundaries I will know about it sooner than later, and better still, before we even get married. Isn't that worth something?


Yes it is worth something. I think you CAN "affair-proof", yourself, however.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> I don't like being fatalistic with that thought "if he wants to cheat, then he will." Well, maybe if I install some boundaries I will know about it sooner than later, and better still, before we even get married. *Isn't that worth something*?


Not really. I mean, yeah it's great to have boundaries but that doesn't guarantee you an infidelity-free marriage/relationship. 

See because even if YOU instill boundaries before you get married, (or your partner) that doesn't mean the other person will abide by them. 

So yes, it is fatalstic...if someone chooses to cheat, they will, whether you are on board or not (and let's face it--nobody ever wants to be cheated on). 

There are simply NO guarantees in any relationship that one or both partners will not cheat. It's entirely up to an individual whether they make that choice or whether or not it happens.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Kurosity said:


> Yes! I full heartily agree. I have much dislike for him.



View attachment 1559
I agree


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Nice pic


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Not really. I mean, yeah it's great to have boundaries but that doesn't guarantee you an infidelity-free marriage/relationship.
> 
> *See because even if YOU instill boundaries before you get married, (or your partner) that doesn't mean the other person will abide by them.*
> 
> ...


yes, and as I said before, you will know sooner rather than later; and therefore, get it over with sooner rather than later. I am certainly glad to get the issue of OSFs with my fiance on the table sooner rather than later.

I know of at least one poster here who has observed that of every woman in her social circle, she had the weakest /lowest boundaries, and she is the only one whose husband has cheated on her.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

That sucks for her but at the end of the day, it wasn't her fault that her husband cheated. He made the choice to do that, regardless of whether she had boundaries that were strong or not.

Pretty much everyone who has been betrayed has had the bounadry of "no cheating in marriage." That doesn't mean it's not going to happen. How many times have you heard a betrayed spouse say "My spouse said they'd never cheat and we decided together that w'ed never cheat on eachother?" A lot. 

To assume otherwise or to suggest that because of this woman's boundaries, *her husband's choice* to cheat were her issue, or that the responsibility was hers, or that the blame falls on her, is wreckless and unfair.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> yes, and as I said before, you will know sooner rather than later; and therefore, get it over with sooner rather than later. I am certainly glad to get the issue of OSFs with my fiance on the table sooner rather than later.


Get what over with sooner or later? Know what sooner rather than later?

People are generally blind-sided when they find out they've been cheated on. It's not something one can prevent. Because ultimately the cheating falls on the cheater's shoulders. It is a personal decision. Nobody holds a gun to a someone and makes a cheater cheat. It's a decision they make all on their own.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> People are generally blind-sided when they find out they've een cheated on. It's not something one can prevent. Because ultimately the cheating falls on the cheater's shoulders. It is a personal decision. Nobody holds a gun to a someone and makes a cheater cheat. It's a decision they make all on their own.



I get the sense some people feel like they are lesser people for having been cheated on. That they should have done more to prevent it or that they should have foreseen it and stopped it somehow. The reality is that when a person cheats its a reflection on them not the person they cheated on. 

Even if you are in a situation you are not providing your spouse with everything they need they have an obligation to come to you first. If you don't respond favourably than they should call it a day *before* they turn to someone else. 

There's no shame in having been cheated on. The only shame would be in not dealing with it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MaritimeGuy said:


> That they should have done more to prevent it or that they should have foreseen it and stopped it somehow. The reality is that when a person cheats its a reflection on them not the person they cheated on.


:iagree:

And that is exactly the point I was trying to make. 

You cannot stop or "prevent" someone from cheating because it's a choice they make all on their own.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

We can trust that people are human and as such not perfect. To deal with this we have to have good boundaries.

Good people with poor boundaries fall into EAs ALL the time. In fact these are often compassionate loving people. They bond with friends and can get in over their heads. Most people just do not see this as an EA until it progresses to soemthing more sexual. Trust alone is not the answer. Knowledge and being connected with your spouse is. You have to look out for each other. If you are each others closest friends then you have a good start.

Blind trust is naive, lazy and often ambivalent. marriage takes love, respect and work. But spoue do need to trust that their spouse may see something we have tunnel vision about. We generally do not see these things as we are too close to it. Our spouse can be more atuned to what is really going on as the brain chemicals are not impariting their judgement.

There is no one on this planet I trust more than my wife. But I stay tuned in with her.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Badblood said:


> I was looking , the other day at another website, that claims that if you follow their procedures, you will be able to , "affair-proof", your post-cheating marriage. Does anybody really think that this is possible?


You are not your spouse. As much as we want to believe it we can not know who will cheat and when. I have read pleanty of EA/PA stories that start almost spontaneously, I have read about LS who were jerks and it paved the way. MY situation was a blindside. I got lucky and caught it early. However she got attached to a another married man and things were escalating. 

At this moment right now I still have a small tinge of worry. I do trust my wife now however I have reinforced boundaries with my wife. I took a stand on the matter and let her know that her behavior would not be tolerated. I would have been prepared to D or at least get a mockup of papers to wake her butt up. The point is I actively chose to end the friendship btw my W and OM as soon as I found out there was a problem. I trusted my gut and did some math. I then asked myself if my wife found this "what would she do?" 
I read sooo many threads that BS's just ignore the Red Flags leading up to the big DDay. Then are not surprised what they find. I am not trying to call anyone out. I am just making on observation based on stories I have read and voicing an opinion.)

There is no way to prevent your spouse from getting attached to someone at some point in their life. I think that couples that are in R are more sensitive to each other. 
I think that the book probably regurgitates all the crap the other marriage books do. However there are a million self help books out there that promise success. I found a guy at work reading a book on how to be successful(don't remember the actual title but that was the premise). He was let go several days later because he was lazy, missed deadlines to have projects done, lied about the status of projects, and just basically was a terrible employee. 

Reading a book is no substitute for self awareness and self improvement. Unless you apply yourself towards having a successful marriage, job, and happiness. Then you can read any book you want and still fail.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Most affairs can be stopped well before the full blown cheating starts. Most unfaithfulness that kills marriages never ends up in full blown cheating. It still detroys the marriage none-the-less. People just do not see the root causes. The sprially downward. How many affairs are left undiscovered? Most people can look at an EA happening and yet are puzzled that it all appears innocent. 

There are people who will just cheat. These are in the severe minority. Most people who end up being unfaithful do not set out to cheat.

Yes many of them eventually make a conscious decison to cheat. But my point is that this is way too late to deal with. Just trusting that someones character will win the day is very naive IMO because it discounts the actual process by which we all bond and fall in love. It discounts the rationalization and history re-writing. So someone with character will end up justifying anyway. Chracter is important and may indeed prevent many PAs, but it falls short of damaging the marriage. Character without knowledge and savvy is incomplete.

Most people on this planet are capable of bonding with others and can indeed fall in love with them IF they do not have adequate boundaries. That said everyone has their Kryptonite. The window of that Kryptonite may be wider for some than other to be sure, but under the right circumstance people can justify much.

I only say this because to think otherwise is a false sense of security. It is a maginot line.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Maybe the term "affair proof" is a bit like hype but I think it's worth reading. Hell, it's a lot cheaper than counseling which also produces mixed results.
> 
> I don't like being fatalistic with that thought *"if he wants to cheat, then he will."* Well, maybe if I install some boundaries I will know about it sooner than later, and better still, before we even get married. Isn't that worth something?


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

I totally agree. Knowledge is power.

I agree the bolded is totally absurd and naive. It applies to a very small population and not what the real world is about. Most people do not set out to cheat. 

You are dead on. Those that engage with their marriage and have knowledge will be in a very favorable position to prevent affairs from happening. Nothing is 100% but it is only smart to pull the odds into your favor.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Yes it is worth something. I think you CAN "affair-proof", yourself, however.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> That sucks for her but at the end of the day, it wasn't her fault that her husband cheated._ *I didn't say it was her fault.* _He made the choice to do that, regardless of whether she had boundaries that were strong or not.
> 
> Pretty much everyone who has been betrayed has had the bounadry of "no cheating in marriage." That doesn't mean it's not going to happen. *But I believe that it will happen less often if you have intermediate boundaries in place. A partner who doesn't observe them is giving you early warning signals. *_How many times have you heard a betrayed spouse say "My spouse said they'd never cheat and we decided together that w'ed never cheat on eachother?" A lot. *You're right about that.*
> 
> To assume otherwise or to suggest that because of this woman's boundaries, *her husband's choice* to cheat were her issue, or that the responsibility was hers, or that the blame falls on her, is wreckless and unfair. *I didn't say that and I am sorry that you have misinterpreted me. *_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Not really. I mean, yeah it's great to have boundaries but that doesn't guarantee you an infidelity-free marriage/relationship.
> 
> See because even if YOU instill boundaries before you get married, (or your partner) that doesn't mean the other person will abide by them.
> 
> ...


Nothing is certain in life. Nothing. However we all do things to improve. 

Are you saying that working on a marrige to reduce the probabity of an affair is not worth the effort?

Really? Surely you do not mean this. 

Grass is greenest where it is watered and where it is not exposed to destructive elements.

It is very possible in your case you just flat got a lemon of a husband.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> That sucks for her but at the end of the day, it wasn't her fault that her husband cheated. He made the choice to do that, regardless of whether she had boundaries that were strong or not.
> 
> Pretty much everyone who has been betrayed has had the bounadry of "no cheating in marriage." That doesn't mean it's not going to happen. How many times have you heard a betrayed spouse say "My spouse said they'd never cheat and we decided together that w'ed never cheat on eachother?" A lot.
> 
> To assume otherwise or to suggest that because of this woman's boundaries, *her husband's choice* to cheat were her issue, or that the responsibility was hers, or that the blame falls on her, is wreckless and unfair.


I see why people who have been betrayed feel that there was nothing they could do.

I get that. This is not about blame. 

That said so many folks end up enabling affairs becuase of their conflict avoidance and lack of their own boundaries.

A couple who works together can reduce the risk of infidelity.

This should not be seen as putting blame on the BS.

Locking my front door is a measure to keep a burgalar out. If they get in it is surely their crime. However, if I left my door open and went on holiday without taking any measures to help ensure the integrity of my home how smart was that?

To say if they wish to break in they will is only valid to a point. 

Too few folks do anything to protect their marriage.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

One boundary that I learned since my failed marriage is to be cautious of women who show --IMO-- too much interest in my husband. that is, conversations are dominated by her barrage of questions about my husband, what he is doing for work, how does he feel and so on.

I also start to notice how adamant they are that my husband should come along when we plan things, sometimes to the point where they want to reschedule. So much for their wanting to be friends with me.

I know now that that is an early warning signal that this woman has befriended me to act as a conduit to my husband. Maybe it was for the purpose of an EA or a PA that they were hoping for. but what did occur on a couple of occasions was behaviour that was downright inappropriate. to the point where they were calling or e-mailing my husband (which he would return so that "there was no need for me to call them again" -- even in response to phone calls or e-mail that I made to them.

looking back on it, I think my exH would have preferred if I had just dealt with it and not hassle him about how to behave around these women if I didn't like the outcome.

I used to think that everyone likes to play fair, and is open to compromise and negotiation. but they are not.

And after those experiences, this would explain why I was very sensitive about the friendship my (future) fiancé had with his (fly by night) ex. And I nipped problems in the bud.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

It is wrong to blame a BS for anyone cheating.

It is also naive to think we cannot all do more in our marriages to increase the probability of success.

To fall back and just say if they will cheat they will cheat is not doing all one can do for their marriage.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I still maintain that if someone wants to cheat, they will.

It is a choice. If someone wants to do something, they will do it. 

it really is as simple as that. 

Whether they bonded w/ someone, whether they decided to sleep with someone else, whether they decided to send funny/flirty emails to someone--it was a choice they made. 100%.

Nobody else is responsible for that person making those choices.

It's about personal accountability.



Entropy3000 said:


> Are you saying that working on a marrige to reduce the probabity of an affair is not worth the effort?


Not at all. 
I think boundaries are great. 
What I am saying is that it comes down to a choice. You have can have all the boundaries in the world but if your partner wants to and decides to go behind your back and cheat, it is going to happen.



NextTimeAround said:


> One boundary that I learned since my failed marriage is to be cautious of women who show --IMO-- too much interest in my husband. that is, conversations are dominated by her barrage of questions about my husband, what he is doing for work, how does he feel and so on.


Well I totally agree with that. It's a red flag.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I still maintain that if someone wants to cheat, they will.
> 
> It is a choice. If someone wants to do something, they will do it.
> 
> ...


I think most people are cheaters then. They just do not realize it. Seriously. I am not saying it is right. I am saying people are clueless in many of the choices they do make. A smaller number know exactly what they are doing. They are not worth saving.

But I get that we should hold ourselves and others accountable.

I just feel that people in general have very poor boundaries today. Any number of reasons for this. I think that partners can look out for each other. And that it is not as simple as either they will or they will not. That for the majority of people it is a whole other deal.


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## life.is.pain (Aug 28, 2012)

There is no way to affair proof a marriage. If its gonna happen its gonna happen no matter what you do.

The only way to affair proof it is by the spouse using common sense and remembering they are married. Besides if they are married cheating should never even cross their mind in the first place.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

So bottomline is that there are a great many ways for a couple to make themselves less vulnerable to an affair. Affair proof. No that is just silly.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I think most people are cheaters then. They just do not realize it. Seriously. I am not saying it is right. I am saying people are clueless in many of the choices they do make. A smaller number know exactly what they are doing. They are not worth saving.
> 
> But I get that we should hold ourselves and others accountable.
> 
> I just feel that people in general have very poor boundaries today. Any number of reasons for this. I think that partners can look out for each other. And that it is not as simple as either they will or they will not. That for the majority of people it is a whole other deal.


There is no such thing as a "clueless", cheater, In order to be unfaithful, you have to put too much thought into it, make too many secret plans, tell too many lies, for it to be anything other than a premeditated act. Sometimes, as in ONS's, the separate ACT, is unplanned, but the intent happened long before the actual action.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> So bottomline is that there are a great many ways for a couple to make themselves less vulnerable to an affair. Affair proof. No that is just silly.


The bottom line is that Marriage is a Confederation, not a Republic. Marriage is the Union of two separate entities, not an entity unto itself. It is possible for EACH half of the marriage to "affair-proof" it'self, but it isn't possible to 'Affair-proof", the other half, or the Union, itself.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Badblood said:


> There is no such thing as a "clueless", cheater, In order to be unfaithful, you have to put too much thought into it, make too many secret plans, tell too many lies, for it to be anything other than a premeditated act. Sometimes, as in ONS's, the separate ACT, is unplanned, but the intent happened long before the actual action.


I agree with this. At some point the person cheating is making a decision to cross a line they know shouldn't be crossed. 

The only way you can prevent that is to maintain a relationship that ensures when your partner approaches that line they make the right choice.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

life.is.pain said:


> If its gonna happen its gonna happen no matter what you do.


Exactly. Because it's not up to you. It's up to your partner to make *the choice* not to cheat. 

I also agree with BadBlood saying there is no such thing as a "clueless" cheater. When someone cheats, they know what they are doing.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Badblood said:


> There is no such thing as a "clueless", cheater, In order to be unfaithful, you have to put too much thought into it, make too many secret plans, tell too many lies, for it to be anything other than a premeditated act. Sometimes, as in ONS's, the separate ACT, is unplanned, but the intent happened long before the actual action.


And I think this comes down to what cheating is.

People cheat their marriages in various ways. Again folks want to just look at full blown sex as cheating and that is fine.

I think people who do that are low lifes.

I am talking about people who get too close to friends.
They are cheating their marriage. They will insist they are just friends.

I do think there are people who want to cheat and do. I think one cuts them loose.

My comments are towards more avergae married folks who without realizing it are hurting their marriage in various ways. I think they are clueless. they will argue that they are not hurting their marriage. But in many cases they are in an EA or risking an EA.

This is why I think the comments are at cross purposes.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> And I think this comes down to what cheating is.
> 
> People cheat their marriages in various ways. Again folks want to just look at full blown sex as cheating and that is fine.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. And there are pressures in society that encourage this. For example, we're in a period where the belief that OSFs are cool an wonderful and people who are against it are small minded and insecure.

So some things for me had to be rethought. 
Is it ok when women call my husband but won't take a call from me for example? 
Is it ok when women express interest in getting together but only when my husband available? 
And when things should change they want to reschedule.
Is it ok that my partner pays for other women when he's out with them but then expects me to pay for the date when we get together?

I suppose people who are more savvy or who look out for themselves instead of trying to calculate the fairness of each situation would know IMMEDIATELY the answer to those questions.

But for someone like myself who was taught that you have to work at being likeable -- that is, if someone didn't like me, it was MY fault, something that I DID--

so of course, I would wonder if I was being fair with these women. that OSFs were ok, so naturally they would want to contact my husband at least half the time........ but that's the problem, once you let people have some of what they want, they have no desire to work with you again. 

Relationships don't occur in a vacuum. and all relationships are dynamic. You need to have an idea in advance the boundaries that you want around a relationship before it gets out of hand.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Dr Harley and his website are very good and killing affairs and recovering marriages.

Good does not mean all affairs are killed and no divorces happen after dday.

When Dr H's methods are followed the chances for sucess are about the best.

Dr H is not about affairs it's about recovering from them. To recover has to include preventing the behavoir that allowed affairs to take place.

Thus the term to affair proof your marriage is to do what is necessary to have a better marriage post dday and put in place the knowledge to not have any more affair. It does not imply that following Dr H no one will never have another affair.

There have been serial WS on his site. There have been many divorces. For many divorce was the best option post dday. For you see even Dr H realizes some marriages are best not saved.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

This is true. I've known Dr. Harley to advise divorce on several occasions. Immediately after my ex-wife's affair I was on MB for quite a while.


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