# 17 years of marriage and serious signs/risk of an emotional affair from my husband. Please advise



## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Hello,
I come here to seek help because I am having trust issues with my husband for the first time. Sorry my message is a bit long.
My story may seem quite soft compared to more serious infidelity problems but for me all this is new so I'm a little lost and I don't know who to talk to about it to find a solution that is why I am here.

We have been married for 17 years and we have 3 children who are still minors. We have already had more or less severe crises in our 17 years together, and we came back from each of them but infidelity has never been a subject between us. We have (had) pretty solid principles on this subject and we agreed that if we are faced with a situation where we are interested in another person, we would choose to separate properly.

But right now I'm experiencing for the first time serious doubts that my husband is emotionally unfaithful or slipping into it very seriously. The problem started when suddenly "almost out of nowhere" he tells me that we need to talk, that he is no longer happy in our relationship, that he is constantly angry at me and that he noticed that he gets mad at me quickly while he is much more patient and caring towards his friends (and his friends are mostly women). At first I hadn't made the connection with other things, but I blamed myself for having perhaps been too distant (work, children, etc.) and I told him that I would be more present and that we will make efforts to rekindle the flame. You also have to know that some choices we made for our family are based on my career choices so the blame was more related to that and what my career is doing to him .

But the next day, I coincidently come across a chat with one of his friends. I’m not sure if I would have checked seriously if it hadn’t been for that conversation but I did and it turns out that for some time (I don't know how long), he has been spending a lot of time chatting morning/noon/night with one of his friends in particular (she is also married). It surprised me slightly but without real concern at first. I just said to myself "wow this is new" that he chats for so long because he's not someone very connected to social media and long chats in general.

Then over the days I began to observe more and more his behavior and realized that with this woman he has a fairly intimate relationship which in my opinion goes beyond simple friendship. For example, they can stay chatting in the car for more than 2 hours in the middle of the night alone. He apparently takes her back home after they have a group dinner or something if he husband is not around (or is staying at home to watch the kids). Then I learned that he told her about us and our relationship problems. That too is quite new because we NEVER talk about our couple (even to our respective best friends). 

He goes out a lot with her and his other friends (once or twice a week). It had never seriously worried me before because I had total confidence. But in our recent conversations he tells me that this time out with his friends is a way for him to find happiness that he can’t find at home. And also adds that he prefers that I'm not there because we don't really have the same sense of humor so I'll be bored (which isn't false objectively speaking and that's is why I didn't do these evenings with them in the first place) but hearing him say that puts me even more in doubt.

One day I couldn't resist, I looked in his chats. It was the first time he came home at 3 am after dropping her at her place. He said he couldn’t let her take ubber cause she was a bit drank (he doesn’t drink at all). I did not find anything absolutely shocking in the chats but over the conversations I see that he is trying to seduce her. He's a fairly reserved person so he doesn't go very hard but he constantly insinuates things. They make appointments to talk to each other later when one of them has to go. He is quite protective of her and even if it could be normal between friends, he is always giving her compliments to make her feel good, to help her have more confidence in her and in short, he is really very caring towards her.

A few times I see that they talk about our couple and he tells her that it is getting better because we are making efforts to rekindle the flame (that’s actually how I found out he told her about us before he told me himself another day). So it is not as if he is openly in an extra-conjugal relationship with her. She doesn't seem to want to break up our couple either because she encourages him to continue to make efforts in our relationship but she still asks him to have meals alone with her. He always refused to have that “alone dinner” with her saying it’s weird but after they go out in group he takes her back home (while she is half drank). 

When I asked him not to do it anymore he says that he morally can’t let her go home on her own in that condition, she is his friend and it’s not normal to let her down. In their chats, I also found one or two conversation where they talk about sexual fantasy scenes. I don’t really know the background of the conversation so I couldn’t be sure if it was specifically about them or a follow-up on a joke they had in group because they do make a lot of sexual jokes in their group…..

Finally, what totally shattered my trust is that one day he writes to her saying outright that it bothers him to see her physically close to another man (she was describing to him a scene where she was out dancing with other men). I really got worried because I say to myself that he is falling in love with her. But I don't quite know what to do about it. Besides we are so different with this person it’s not even as if I could change/improve some of my behaviors to be more like her and make him happy. We are really really different! 

The next day, in a conversation we were having about our relationship and the work we are doing to revive it, I told him without admitting that I saw the messages that he has to be careful not to get too attached with other girls if he wants to make our couple work again. He swears to me that he is not unfaithful. I believe him because he talks about physical infidelity. And when I tell him about the risks when you have a friendship that's a little too close with another woman, he tells me that he doesn't really see the problem in that. 

I basically told him that the risk is to slide into real feelings of love towards her and that's called emotional infidelity. I even go so far as to describe to him (in writing) which situations are signs of a normal friendship and which situations are no longer really part of a friendship with a woman. I told him to reflect alone and depending on what he concludes he might need to distance himself from her. He understood that I am talking about this particular person and assured me that he had nothing to do with the risk situations that I described. 

It was the first time that we spoke openly about her and the fact that it worries me. Since then there is again a kind of coldness between us. We talk and do things together but I feel that the discomfort is back. He is a little offended (or embarrassed) that I have suspicions.

Now I don't know how to manage this going forward: I continue to monitor the conversations between them? Shall i trust him that he will stop putting himself in risky situations now that I have explained to him that it is not without risk? Shall continue to talk to him about it/her and say openly that I am worried about their relationship? Or shall i let him come to me once he has made his reflection? I am worried that if I talk too much about her I might put even more ideas into his head and arise the desire to do something forbidden...

What is certain is that if this really turns into emotional infidelity, we will have to leave each other and break up our family. I don't think I'll be able to continue my life with a man who thinks of another while he's by my side. Physical infidelity let's not even talk about it, its 0 tolerance. What would you do in my place? I'm not the type to let things happen on its own and I tend to want to control everything so there I'm worried about doing too much by wanting to save my couple but doing nothing kills me too.

Thank you for reading me completely and thank you in advance for your advice.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> Hello,
> I come here to seek help because I am having trust issues with my husband for the first time. Sorry my message is a bit long.
> My story may seem quite soft compared to more serious infidelity problems but for me all this is new so I'm a little lost and I don't know who to talk to about it to find a solution that is why I am here.
> We have been married for 17 years and we have 3 children who are still minors. We have already had more or less severe crises in our 17 years together, and we came back from each of them but infidelity has never been a subject between us. We have (had) pretty solid principles on this subject and we agreed that if we are faced with a situation where we are interested in another person, we would choose to separate properly.
> ...


@Sophiadeb Your post is a little hard to read because the paragraphs are so large. If you could edit and put more spaces between them, it would help others and you will get more support.

Brace yourself. This will not be easy.

All of the actions you are describing about your husband are clear signs of an emotional affair. He is, at a minimum, in "limerance" (kind of a fake-love) with another woman.

Going even further, it is highly likely that they are in a physical affair.

Normally, when there is an emotional affair and the 2 people are available, spending time alone, then they will make it physical.



Sophiadeb said:


> What is certain is that if this really turns into emotional infidelity, we will have to leave each other and break up our family. I don't think I'll be able to continue my life with a man who thinks of another while he's by my side. Physical infidelity let's not even talk about it, its 0 tolerance. What would you do in my place?


What you posted here ^^^ is exactly the right thing. Do not continue with a man whose heart and body belong to another.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Yep he is at a minimum having an emotional affair.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

He's spending time with her some nights until 3 am, and is jealous of her interactions with other men?

Definitely an emotional affair, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than that.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> @Sophiadeb Your post is a little hard to read because the paragraphs are so large. If you could edit and put more spaces between them, it would help others and you will get more support.
> 
> Brace yourself. This will not be easy.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your feedback! i have also added some spaces in my paragraph. 
In regards to the matter in hand, what would you do in my shoes? 
1) Shall i confront him and tell him i saw the messages? 
2) Shall i restart the conversation on emotional affair and he keeps on dyning it ask him to show me the messages?
3) Give him some time to take himself out of this mess (it's only on wednesday that i told him my suspicions and that i decribed what emotional affair is because on tuesday night he had said "i don't see the problem as long as there is no physical relationship")

Thanks for the support!


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> He's spending time with her some nights until 3 am, and is jealous of her interactions with other men?
> 
> Definitely an emotional affair, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than that.


For sure i am not the crazy one here to find this is out of line! thanks for confirming. I really doubt it about the physical part though because he is a proud person and prides himself of being just so he wouldn't go there until we are together (not for my sake) but for the sake of his own pride.
How would you go forward with this situation if you were in my shoes?
1) Shall i confront him and tell him i saw the messages?
2) Shall i restart the conversation on emotional affair and he keeps on denying it, i ask him to show me their chats if he has notthing to hide?
3) Give him some time to take himself out of this mess because on wednesday i wrote him a pretty long email explaineing what is acceptable or not in a friendship and if he is doing the things that are not accetable, he should pull himself out.

Thanks for the support!


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yep he is at a minimum having an emotional affair.


Thanks for confirming that i am not the paranoia seeing things when there isn't anything to see! What would you do in my shoes?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> For sure i am not the crazy one here to find this is out of line! thanks for confirming. I really doubt it about the physical part though because he is a proud person and prides himself of being just so he wouldn't go there until we are together (not for my sake) but for the sake of his own pride.
> How would you go forward with this situation if you were in my shoes?
> 1) Shall i confront him and tell him i saw the messages?


 Yes, I would if it were me. Be prepared for him to call you insecure, overreacting and everything else. But, that's what cheaters say when they know they've been caught. Just know that going in, he will say all kinds of things, but anything short of ''I'm sorry for hurting you, and I'll end this communication,'' would show that he's not willing to let it go.



> 2) Shall i restart the conversation on emotional affair and he keeps on denying it, i ask him to show me their chats if he has notthing to hide?


 You could, but I'd still say what you discovered. He can't deny that.



> 3) Give him some time to take himself out of this mess because on wednesday i wrote him a pretty long email explaineing what is acceptable or not in a friendship and if he is doing the things that are not accetable, he should pull himself out.


No, he's an adult and knows right from wrong. Honestly, your husband has no respect for you if he's staying out until 3 AM with another woman other than a relative. I wouldn't take this path, because he'll just offer word salads, and try to confuse you.

Be prepared for him to turn this all around on you, to make you feel bad, and to not take responsibility. That's usually what they all do at first.



> Thanks for the support!


You're welcome! I hope your conversation goes well. 🙏


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> Thank you so much for your feedback! i have also added some spaces in my paragraph.
> In regards to the matter in hand, what would you do in my shoes?
> 1) Shall i confront him and tell him i saw the messages?
> 2) Shall i restart the conversation on emotional affair and he keeps on dyning it ask him to show me the messages?
> ...


People who are in affairs will not break free of them easily. Especially emotional ones. He sees her as someone he loves, maybe even more than you.

If you confront him and yell and scream and cry, it will only make him start hiding it better and lying to you even more.

He needs to feel like there are real consequences. He needs to see you leaving him over it. Otherwise he will just continue to lie.

Only then will you (maybe) get to the truth.

I'm not sure how things work in your country but you should consider divorcing him.
I would not discuss it further.
He knows how you feel and further talking will only be lies anyway.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Honestly, if my wife were behaving like your husband, I would let the OM have her and would divorce immediately.

If you do that, your husband may come back on his knees or he may not. In either scenario you will be better off and in control of your life.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

I’m sorry you find yourself in this position. I believe that your husband is already deeply into the emotional affair phase, and I suspect everyone here will agree. Constant texting with another woman, staying out ridiculously late, going to bars a few times a week…these are simply not the actions of a devoted husband and father. I’m sure others who have been through this will have more concrete thoughts and suggestions.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

He is having an emotional affair, and so is she.
She wants, alone time with him, dinners, time in the car...
Talks, one on one.

She, badly, wants him to take her.
Badly.

She would not resist his advances, those touches, the kisses, everything.
She wants _him_ to make the first move.

He is more reserved and is trying to get up the nerve.

What could be more obvious, than those messages to each other?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> Thanks for confirming that i am not the paranoia seeing things when there isn't anything to see! What would you do in my shoes?


Tell him to break it off with her, or you will divorce him!

At that point, you will find out his true commitment to your marriage.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Thinking more on this....

They may already have had physical relations.
All that time in the car, and alone, together?

I suspect, kissing and touching, not anything further.


As yet.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

It truly is amazing how some of us doubt our perceptions. I am still incredulous about the way I had doubts related to my XW's behavior. It was much like what you describe of your husband's. 
So, what to do? I would say confront and if you do not get a satisfactory change in behavior, divorce his sorry ass.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> He is having an emotional affair, and so is she.
> She wants, alone time with him, dinners, time in the car...
> Talks, one on one.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply, however hard to hear, is exactly what i needed. An exterior view on my situation and to hear the truth as it is. 
What is confusing me a bit is this : in their messages, he tells her about the fact that we are talking more now and at a better place. She answers back that it's great and we should continue etc... Why would they have such a conversation if they are both in an emotional affair and have no interest that our marriage is on the right track?


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> It truly is amazing how some of us doubt our perceptions. I am still incredulous about the way I had doubts related to my XW's behavior. It was much like what you describe of your husband's.
> So, what to do? I would say confront and if you do not get a satisfactory change in behavior, divorce his sorry ass.


I am so sorry you also went through this!! Why can't it be simpler! Especially when kids are involved all these decisions are so hard to take. Especially my daughter tells me stories about her friends who have divirced parents and she is always so sad for them. And it breaks my heart that she may have to go through this herself. And i am even a bit scared she will hate me if i leave her dad. I will probably not tell her/them what he did because i want them to love him just like they love him now (he is a great dad by the way). So his issues are with me and not with them so i want them to keep a great image of him.

How long did you wait to see a change?


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> Tell him to break it off with her, or you will divorce him!
> 
> At that point, you will find out his true commitment to your marriage.


He says there is nothing to break off as they are just friends. After i listed to him all the things he could and could not do with a friend, he says that they only things he does with her are those that i described as "doable" with a friend. The only thing that he agreed to not doing anymore is to take her to her home late in the night unless there is absolutely no choice and in case he does he will call me ahead and tell me so that i know where he is exactly and how long he stays there. How to go forward with such a behavior?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> I am so sorry you also went through this!! Why can't it be simpler! Especially when kids are involved all these decisions are so hard to take. Especially my daughter tells me stories about her friends who have divirced parents and she is always so sad for them. And it breaks my heart that she may have to go through this herself. And i am even a bit scared she will hate me if i leave her dad. I will probably not tell her/them what he did because i want them to love him just like they love him now (he is a great dad by the way). So his issues are with me and not with them so i want them to keep a great image of him.
> 
> How long did you wait to see a change?


Is he a ''great dad,'' though? Hanging out with another woman until 3 AM? If they knew that, would he lie to them? Probably. He sounds like he's completely self-absorbed, and I agree with the others, to have a discussion, and if he starts making it sound like this is all your fault, and you're ''crazy and insecure,'' I'd file.

If you walk on eggshells around this, I promise you...this will get worse. He's too deep into this ''friendship'' to quit it on his own. As long as you're silent about it, he'll keep doing it. Because he gets the best of both worlds.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Yes, I would if it were me. Be prepared for him to call you insecure, overreacting and everything else. But, that's what cheaters say when they know they've been caught. Just know that going in, he will say all kinds of things, but anything short of ''I'm sorry for hurting you, and I'll end this communication,'' would show that he's not willing to let it go.


Isn't admitting that i went through his phone be something that will turn against me. After all do i have the right to do that? I am feeling guilty for the action in its absoulte form, going through a person's privacy. I know why i did it but it's kind of ethically wrong. So wouldn't admitting that be something that will negatively impact the conversation and lowers its chance of ending well?
Because let's be clear, my main goal is to mend my marriage and keep at it if we are both faithful. It's just that i don't want to do it at the cost of my dignity.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> Isn't admitting that i went through his phone be something that will turn against me. After all do i have the right to do that? I am feeling guilty for the action in its absoulte form, going through a person's privacy. I know why i did it but it's kind of ethically wrong. So wouldn't admitting that be something that will negatively impact the conversation and lowers its chance of ending well?
> Because let's be clear, my main goal is to mend my marriage and keep at it if we are both faithful. It's just that i don't want to do it at the cost of my dignity.


I understand, it's definitely going to be an uncomfortable conversation, but that's because he lied. And has been lying. Maybe he's even lying to himself. It is so often the case, that the betrayed person feels somehow to blame for their spouse ignoring them and becoming involved, in whatever way, with another person. Your marriage may have flaws, but this isn't how he should be dealing with them. 

I think I'd admit searching his phone, and let the situation go whatever way it's supposed to go. If you tell the truth, you can never go wrong. He may be angry, but oh well. You really need to explain that this is hurting you and the marriage, but he will try to make this about you being insecure, and ''he's a good husband, and how he would never cross any lines,'' etc... Just beware that he will likely say all of that. ''I can't have a friend?'' Just be prepared for the backlash.

I have guy friends, that are mutual friends of my husband's. My husband and I met through our mutual friends. Most are married, too. I'm not disappearing with any of them until 3 AM, or at any time. If I were, my husband would have a ''right'' to snoop if he sensed I'm lying. 

I'd suggest reading some threads on here about ''emotional affairs,'' because it will give you some insight into how others have dealt with exposing them. And how much of the time, they weren't just ''emotional.'' 

If your end goal is to keep your marriage together, that too has to be your husband's end goal. 

This is all a dealbreaker for me, lol So maybe I'm biased. 😌


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> He says there is nothing to break off as they are just friends. After i listed to him all the things he could and could not do with a friend, he says that they only things he does with her are those that i described as "doable" with a friend. The only thing that he agreed to not doing anymore is to take her to her home late in the night unless there is absolutely no choice and in case he does he will call me ahead and tell me so that i know where he is exactly and how long he stays there. How to go forward with such a behavior?


"_How to go forward with such a behavior?_"
Tell him to drop her as a friend and never contact her again for any reason.

And the phone snooping? You don't have to tell him anything.

Here ya go:
"_I know you're having an affair. You can be honest and talk to me about it or you can go to her permanently_"
Say that and you're off to the races.

When he says "No I'm not" (which he will) then hand him his suitcase.
If he wants to know how or what you know, hand him his suitcase.
You get the idea.

Don't back down, don't reveal what you know, and don't "debate" it with him.
If he comes clean and is truthful then you have something to work with (maybe),
If not, he gets the suitcase.

But he won't be truthful.
He will just lie some more and try to tell you it's nothing and you should just be ok with him having friends  

If you don't put a stop to the lying then it will continue.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Do NOT reveal you've gone through his phone.

His relationship with her is too close. Hard stop.

In your shoes, I would do the following:

1) Continue to check their conversations
2) Continue to keep your eyes open
3) Tell your H that in order to truly work on your marriage, you need him to spend less time with friends and more time with you. Going out 1-2x a week with people while you are home and he constantly has to drive her home at 3am is a bad pattern. Why are you never there? Can't you get a sitter and join them?
4) Tell him that her drinking problem is not his to fix. If she wants to get home safely, she should stop getting drunk 1-2x a week. Getting drunk that often is bad. She probably just assumes your H will be her DD every time. He should tell her that he is going to have to stop being her DD. 
5) I would not demand they end the friendship YET, but I would demand that he cuts back. It's inappropriate and it's not respectful to you or to her H. If he refuses or throws a fit about it, then he's full on in love with her. He should respect your feelings first.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Why should a spouse tip toe around their spouse’s affair?  I don’t know, you can’t let fear dictate your actions. That’s just my opinion.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> He says there is nothing to break off as they are just friends. After i listed to him all the things he could and could not do with a friend, he says that they only things he does with her are those that i described as "doable" with a friend. The only thing that he agreed to not doing anymore is to take her to her home late in the night unless there is absolutely no choice and in case he does he will call me ahead and tell me so that i know where he is exactly and how long he stays there. How to go forward with such a behavior?


He’s not willing to change at all. He’s cheating and doesn’t want to stop


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

*Deidre* said:


> Why should a spouse tip toe around their spouse’s affair?  I don’t know, you can’t let fear dictate your actions. That’s just my opinion.


Well, based on what the OP wrote, the woman actually is encouraging him to improve his marriage, and to me this sounds like a very dangerous situation that hasn't YET blown up into a full affair. If too heavy handed, OP can push a button too early. 

That said, this momentum needs to change now, because it's headed for a bad ending if not changed.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What you should do:
He’s not happy- divorce him.
He’s totally cheating: so divorce him
He’s dating another man’s wife: divorce him.

Do you want to stay with someone that dies this to you? The answer is the same: file for divorce. Only forcing him to see you walking out if his life forever (you should) will have any effect on his feelings for the other woman. Why you allow him to stay out until 3am with another woman without already filing, shows you have a problem too.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Sitting in the car alone for 2 hours? Really? This is very likely a PA. I would have a chat with the OW’s husband for him to check from his side? I have to imagine that he’s not happy with his wife’s behavior. He may just be afraid to confront. The “controlling “ card wields a lot of power over many guys. 

You should not feel guilty for digging through his phone. You should go through all of his devices with a fine tooth comb. The relationship he’s having with this woman is COMPLETELY unacceptable and you have every right to be suspicious and to investigate. On the very slim chance that it really is just friends (it ain’t) it is still wrong for him to give another woman the attention he should only be showering on you.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Gabriel said:


> Well, based on what the OP wrote, the woman actually is encouraging him to improve his marriage, and to me this sounds like a very dangerous situation that hasn't YET blown up into a full affair. If too heavy handed, OP can push a button too early.
> 
> That said, this momentum needs to change now, because it's headed for a bad ending if not changed.


I read that too, but it's like saying ''I want to lose weight,'' but I keep eating fast food every day. If she is encouraging his marriage to improve, she should stop seeing him alone late at night and having all of these intimate chats. It's just not a good look for either of them being married.

I think you make a good point though, in that you just never know how this could go.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

You make a good point as well.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

I am so thankful for all the feedbacks. Many insights and some cold truth that i needed to hear. I decided to check his messages one more time today because i hadn't done it since i explained to him openely my problem with his relationship. If there is slight progress i will be patient for a few more days. If i see no progress i am giving him the ultimatum, his so called friendship with her or our marriage!
Thank you so much for clearing my head on some weird self doubts i had but also for those who suggested softer methods!
I will update you!


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Update: well nothing new on the phone. Normal chats not too long, not too short somewhere in betweem at different time of the day. I didn't learn anything that i don't know already. Some ramdom jokes and 3 or 4 times my name is mentionned because of different reasons related to our kids, our weekend plan and what not. All the times, they were both respectful of me.

The last time he made a "talk to me i am your friend" request was 3 days ago, just before i told him that i am bothered by his closeness with her. She was apparently having some personal trouble and he had actually mentioned that to me when we had the talk about my worries saying that "she is just a friend and i want to be there for her when she has trouble, like this morning for example etc...." .

After that nothing that caught my eyes. If i am being pessimistic he may be deleting messages or moved to live chats (they work at the same place but they can only see each other during breaks and lunch or for gym after work, which they do together by the way). If i am optimistic he heard me loud and clear and maybe took seriously my long list of situations he should avoid if he doesn't want to slide into a full blown emotional affair.

But it's probably too early to tell because they didn't do their weekly weekend group dinner with his friends yet which in general is what leads to those intimate times (driving her home then chats with weirder intonations). It's planned tomorrow and i also have plans so i can't go with them. Besides he had said that the persom who invited them over made a apecific list of guests so i was not really invited unless i insist in which case he would force a +1.

I think i will remind him before he leaves about the rule of not going with her alone after the dinner and staying to chat in the car. Again my hope is that he listens, distance himself amd we go about making our daily efforts to rekindle the flamme in this marriage.

That said, i am considering two options and would love to have your opinions:
1) tomorrow i can bring up our whole "working on our marriage" topic and tell him that although it may or may not be justified, this whole situation with his friends (the going out frequently without me) and especially the special bond he has with this particular female friend is driving me more crazy than i had hoped (because in our 17 years marriage this is the first or secons time only i am feelimg jelous). And that we should solve it together by a) involving me more in his evennings (i honnestly don't enjoy that much their company but sacrifices have to be done lol). And b) that he should cut off some of the things with her that bother me most including the chats on the phone and his driving her home. I would love for them to cut back the gym a bit too but i don't see how it is feasible because the company gym is accesible to all and they have the same schedule 3 times a week. So in short the idea is to be vulnerable with him and see if he respects my honnesty and tries to find a middle ground.
2. Talk to her behind his back and play the "you are a mother/wife so yoi know how important it is to save a marriage" card. To tell her what i feel about their relationship (justified or not because that is not the point), explain that since we are working on our marriage if i tell him to distance himself it might fire back on me because he will feel controlled and ask her if she can distance herself politely because i have a hard time of being sincere with him when i have these thoughts in my mind. The move is at the same time a real tentative to distance them if she is a person with a minimum moral ground, but also a way to warn her i am onto them so she can also get scared for her marriage.

In one of their chats i had seen something something that makes me think she might be sensitive to this.

She asks him (refering to a conversation she had in real) " why did u say you can't do that especially with me, my wife will kill me?",
Him: "it's because of the current situation of our marriage i told u about " (i think that in between the statement he had said live and this chat, he told her about our marriage problems for the first time)
her : "ok now i get it because i really don't want to be a source of conflict in your marriage"
him "no don't worry she actually likes you" (which was true before my suspicions started)

Which idea is crazier? Would you try one or both of this?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I wouldn’t talk with her directly. Your husband should realize how this is affecting you and do what it takes to edify the marriage.

I would probably have a talk about boundaries and see his reactions. If he has a tantrum, or the discussion gets heated, you can proceed from there.

But, I wouldn’t confront her. It’s interesting how you’re “not invited” and he’s fine with that.

Your husband might not be cheating physically but he doesn’t respect you, at the very least. No devoted husband is hanging out with a female friend on a consistent basis, overly concerned and protective, and even jealous of her talking to other men. That’s just a red flag to me.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> I would love for them to cut back the gym a bit too but i don't see how it is feasible because the company gym is accesible to all and they have the same schedule


_Everything_ is feasible to someone trying to save their marriage. If it crosses the line for them be together or talking then tell him that.

My wife has come to me in the past and said “I don’t trust Mary’s intentions. Don’t be around her any more”.

We argued for a minute until I saw how serious it was and then made a choice to respect my wife more than my own (innocent) activities. I cut off Mary and the world righted itself. (Turns out my wife was right btw).

Don’t be afraid to have boundaries. You don’t have to justify them or negotiate them. Stand by your convictions.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> I wouldn’t talk with her directly. Your husband should realize how this is affecting you and do what it takes to edify the marriage.
> 
> I would probably have a talk about boundaries and see his reactions. If he has a tantrum, or the discussion gets heated, you can proceed from there.
> 
> ...


I agree that is also the red flag that brought me here. This is so new to our couple and so trespassing the boundaries we have set for our couple throughout the years, it's making me sick to my stomach.
I have updated my post just above to explain how the idea of talking to her came to my mind.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> _Everything_ is feasible to someone trying to save their marriage. If it crosses the line for them be together or talking then tell him that.
> 
> My wife has come to me in the past and said “I don’t trust Mary’s intentions. Don’t be around her any more”.
> 
> ...


I like your perspective. It sounds so comforting that this is how a normal marriage is. But pulling this card now, given how much effort it will ask from him to stop the gym at his workplace (it's litterally his drug), when everything is so fragile and he has this other person with whom he consciously or subconsciously compares me with, isn't it reinforcing the fact that i am a controller and that the grass is greener elsewhere?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> I like your perspective. It sounds so comforting that this is how a normal marriage is. But pulling this card now, given how much effort it will ask from him to stop the gym at his workplace (it's litterally his drug), when everything is so fragile and he has this other person with whom he consciously or subconsciously compares me with, isn't it reinforcing the fact that i am a controller and that the grass is greener elsewhere?


Yes sort of.
It will force a choice.

He will absolutely say you are controlling. I prefer to call it boundaries. “Men who are not emotionally and physically faithful to me cannot be my husband”. Sounds like a reasonable boundary to me.

But the alternative is to let him continue with his affair.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> I like your perspective. It sounds so comforting that this is how a normal marriage is. But pulling this card now, given how much effort it will ask from him to stop the gym at his workplace (it's litterally his drug), when everything is so fragile and he has this other person with whom he consciously or subconsciously compares me with, isn't it reinforcing the fact that i am a controller and that the grass is greener elsewhere?


My advice would be to work on not being afraid if you could lose this relationship. Sometimes people get so fearful of what that could ever look like in these situations, that they accept behaviors they don’t have to accept. Not saying you will lose it, and not saying you should consider leaving, but you sound afraid of your husband’s possible reactions and you really have nothing to be afraid of. I’m not judging you. I get why you’re feeling this way but once you process not fearing the worst, then you’ll be braver to discuss your feelings.

If your husband compares you to this woman and is potentially slowly slipping away, I’d say you deserve better. Don’t let fear control you or let your husband continue something that is damaging your self-esteem and marriage.

Marriage does take effort, but you shouldn’t have to compete with anyone.😌


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Here is my very biased opinion. 

Id tell him he could choose you and the marriage or his close and intimate female friendships, and get ready for a divorce because he won’t choose you. If he hasn’t screwed her already, all it will take is for her to give him the green light. Be real, you know he wants her. If they aren’t having sex it’s because she’s not that into him. She just likes the ego kibbles and free taxi rides home. But maybe one day she will get bored or drunk enough to let him have a piece. Either way, not great prospects for your husband being a safe partner. 

What kind of grown married people stay out partying with opposite sex people sans spouse until 3 am? The cheating kind.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

What a loser your cheating disrespectful husband is, definitely not marriage material, send him packing!

He’s being extremely immature and you shouldn’t tolerate it.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Updates:
We talked this morning, for 4 hours!
He caught me wide awake super early so he asked what was wrong so i didn't need to bring up the subject myself.
I told him how his "thing" with this women is making me feel. The talk was long but to summerize:

he told me how it all started when he needed to share with someone how unhappy he was with his life right now because of the promises he made to me to follow me in my country and the career choices it forced on him but that he didn't want to ask me to go back cause he knows i am unhappy there. And there are the kids in the middle of all this
from there on their relationship became "i am there for you" type sliding slowly to long chats and that 3 AM talk in the car
about 2 weeks ago he started feeling really unconfortable about all this cause he couldn't take it that he became a man who hides his phone from his spouse.
about a week ago he told her they need some filters and limits cause it's unfair to their respective spouses. She took it wrong as if he is treating her as a **** although she was just being a friend. That is how she ended up dancing with another man and the text message that followed from my H saying he was unhappy about it.
i asked him to show me their chats instead of insinuating what i know without telling him that i know. He accepted and we read what is left of it together including the message about her dance with another and his reaction to it. He told me he had been deleting so many of them that were plainly wrong and made him feel wrong. That was quite an honnesty i appreciated.
i asked bunch of questions about how flirty they were and all and he all admitted. He said it felt good she looked up to him and knew he could control things if they had to go further so he let it happen until about a week ago
he was devastated that i lost trust in him and took all the guilt. It's the first time such a thing happens in 17 years. He said " i know it means nothing now but i am so sorry. I know i broke ur trust and it's all my fault i shouldn't have let it go this far". He was so focused on not being physically unfaithful he forgot the rest
we then talked in detail how he will pull himself out of this and we made a plan. He also said he will install the app again on another device i have access to and i am free to look when i want.

I believe he was sincere. There were a lot of tears without screaming from both sides. We were calm and mature and confused haha.

I honnestly think that if i didn't talk to you guys here yesterday i wouldn't have realized how seriously wrong this all is, and maybe would have let it happen a bit longer and regret once too late.

Thank you all again for the wake up call.
Will come back here in a few weeks to update you. We have a lot to workout in our marriage. I don't have the right to make a person this unhappy to follow my dreams so i have some homework to do too.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> Here is my very biased opinion.
> 
> Id tell him he could choose you and the marriage or his close and intimate female friendships, and get ready for a divorce because he won’t choose you. If he hasn’t screwed her already, all it will take is for her to give him the green light. Be real, you know he wants her. If they aren’t having sex it’s because she’s not that into him. She just likes the ego kibbles and free taxi rides home. But maybe one day she will get bored or drunk enough to let him have a piece. Either way, not great prospects for your husband being a safe partner.
> 
> What kind of grown married people stay out partying with opposite sex people sans spouse until 3 am? The cheating kind.


I think it's quite the opposite. The problem is that he is quite a handsome man and have always had ladies complimenting and running around him. But he always made sure i am on the map. This time was different cause she caught him when he was vulnerable. But she is not the cheating type so same as him enjoying the EA without thinking of what it does to the respective spouses. It turns out she is a bit afraid of me since he told her they have to stop the intimate chats. She thought it came from me.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> My advice would be to work on not being afraid if you could lose this relationship. Sometimes people get so fearful of what that could ever look like in these situations, that they accept behaviors they don’t have to accept. Not saying you will lose it, and not saying you should consider leaving, but you sound afraid of your husband’s possible reactions and you really have nothing to be afraid of. I’m not judging you. I get why you’re feeling this way but once you process not fearing the worst, then you’ll be braver to discuss your feelings.
> 
> If your husband compares you to this woman and is potentially slowly slipping away, I’d say you deserve better. Don’t let fear control you or let your husband continue something that is damaging your self-esteem and marriage.
> 
> Marriage does take effort, but you shouldn’t have to compete with anyone.😌


You are right i am afraid of what separation means. But not for me personally. I am quite an independant person and alwyas have been. That is actually why i let him know in our early twenties where i plan to live and doing what. Now he followed me and he is unhappy here. That is how all the problems started.
But separation, other than breaking a vow, is also breaking up our family that will find itself living 10000 km from one another. He knows i can't live without my children so i will probably have them but what about them living without their dad. I prefer we sort out our adult problems than letting them live that. My daughter prays everyday thanking God for the loving family she has. How can i take that away. It's not fair. That is why i needed to deal with this before it is too late cause there was nonway i could stay with him if he admits he fell in love with another women or had a PA.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Yes sort of.
> It will force a choice.
> 
> He will absolutely say you are controlling. I prefer to call it boundaries. “Men who are not emotionally and physically faithful to me cannot be my husband”. Sounds like a reasonable boundary to me.
> ...


He was fair enough, he didn't say i am controlling. He says he really understands where i am coming from and said sorry multiple times! So i didn't need tonput it as an ultimatum. I think it was implicitly there but didn't need to say it.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Yes sort of.
> It will force a choice.
> 
> He will absolutely say you are controlling. I prefer to call it boundaries. “Men who are not emotionally and physically faithful to me cannot be my husband”. Sounds like a reasonable boundary to me.
> ...


He was fair enough, he didn't say i am controlling. He says he really understands where i am coming from and said sorry multiple times! So i didn't need tonput it as an ultimatum. I think it was implicitly there but didn't need to say it.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

If he's being honest with you now, I think you handled this really well OP.

Personally I would have taken screenshots of the txt conversations and kept them, for example, and some other things just to be on the safe side before talking to him about this. 


My biggest concern for the future :

"He goes out a lot with her and his other friends (once or twice a week)"... and most of his friends are females. WHY?? Why OP? 


He got way too close to this fire because he thought he had complete control of the situation, but this is exactly how physical affairs look in the rear view mirror. 

You should both agree to read the book 'Not Just Friends' which addresses exactly the way he handled himself with her. 

Then he needs to reevaluate his friendships, and transfer a lot of that care and attention to improving YOUR relationship.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Quad73 said:


> If he's being honest with you now, I think you handled this really well OP.
> 
> Personally I would have taken screenshots of the txt conversations and kept them, for example, and some other things just to be on the safe side before talking to him about this.
> 
> ...


You are totally right. I am not at all ready to sleep with full tranquility despite today's honnesty.

We made a plan that i will go out with them more often and try to be a bit more part of the group. That he should not find himself with her again and ignore her chat requests.

But a plan has to be executed with intention and only when i see results i will believe it fully. I don't doubt his honnest intention from today but i have my eyes full open he doesn't slide back in. I will read the book and try to find it for him in his language. Thank you 🙏🙏


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> He was fair enough, he didn't say i am controlling. He says he really understands where i am coming from and said sorry multiple times! So i didn't need tonput it as an ultimatum. I think it was implicitly there but didn't need to say it.


Well that’s good news! I think you’re right to be very cautious about believing him. Believe the actions, not the words. The proof will be if he changes course and it sticks (as opposed to hiding it better).

If he does change and it’s genuine and real and lasts, then I think this will be a first for me to read. So please keep us updated!

I hope the best for you.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> Updates:
> We talked this morning, for 4 hours!
> He caught me wide awake super early so he asked what was wrong so i didn't need to bring up the subject myself.
> I told him how his "thing" with this women is making me feel. The talk was long but to summerize:
> ...


Yay! This sounds like progress and he really listened to your concerns. You handled this with grace and I’m happy to see that he didn’t dismiss you and become defensive.

I hope that he means what he says, because actions speak louder than words. Hope he ends the private one on one’s with her. Hanging out in a group is fine but that’s what needs to end and all the sidebar chats. But, for now…this is encouraging.😊


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Well that’s good news! I think you’re right to be very cautious about believing him. Believe the actions, not the words. The proof will be if he changes course and it sticks (as opposed to hiding it better).
> 
> If he does change and it’s genuine and real and lasts, then I think this will be a first for me to read. So please keep us updated!
> 
> I hope the best for you.


Thank you very much for all the support. I will definitely come and update however this progresses.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Yay! This sounds like progress and he really listened to your concerns. You handled this with class and I’m happy to see that he didn’t dismiss you and become defensive.
> 
> I hope that he means what he says, because actions speak louder than words. Hope he ends the private one on one’s with her. Hanging out in a group is fine but that’s what needs to end and all the sidebar chats. But, for now…this is encouraging.😊


Your support meant a lot really! I felt so lonely on all thsi and couldn't tell any of my friends because i was so ashamed. I am glad i had this forum to pose it like it is and have your opinions and advises.
Praying, crossing fingers and doing my part for what comes ahead!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> Your support meant a lot really! I felt so lonely on all thsi and couldn't tell any of my friends because i was so ashamed. I am glad i had this forum to pose it like it is and have your opinions and advises.
> Praying, crossing fingers and doing my part for what comes ahead!


Prayers for you both. There are so many stories on here where either the wife or husband gets super defensive, name calling the other and refusing to end the “friendship.” I think your husband realized even before your talk, that it wasn’t a good look. Celebrate with enjoying the weekend together. ☀


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

How old are you two again? Why does he need to be going drinking and to bars with a bunch of women. I don’t understand why this is ok behavior. And the solution isn't to join him and his women friends at the bar and go out with them more. It’s that he realize he should be home with his wife and kids and your family should be the place he finds comfort, safety. His wife should be where he builds intimacy and emotional connection. And he needs male friends to do constructive things and hobbies with. Just my (once again biased) opinion.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> How old are you two again? Why does he need to be going drinking and to bars with a bunch of women. I don’t understand why this is ok behavior. And the solution isn't to join him and his women friends at the bar and go out with them more. It’s that he realize he should be home with his wife and kids and your family should be the place he finds comfort, safety. His wife should be where he builds intimacy and emotional connection. And he needs male friends to do constructive things and hobbies with. Just my (once again biased) opinion.


Late thirties both. It's not bars actually, it's either restaurant or at one of their places. We hosted a couple of it ourselves but i am not very much into their vibe so we don't host often. They do have this ritual going for a while. There are 2 other men as well plus the OW's husband when he joins.
My H doesn't drink at all actually that is also how he ended up being the safe driver SMH! I don't mind him having a social life cause that's part of a balanced life in my opinion. But this was becoming too much. Plus it became a way to escape from home (versus complementing it) and that social life became the source of other types of relationships like the one he developed with her.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

edit - posted before seeing the latest updates from OP.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Sophiadeb said:


> When I asked him not to do it anymore he says that he morally can’t let her go home on her own in that condition, she is his friend and it’s not normal to let her down.


That's a crock of crap. He is worried about HER, but not YOU? Really. You have a big problem here. This 'friendship' needs to end right away. I'm almost tempted to have him choose. Either he chooses their friendship, or your marriage.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

I wonder what this woman's husband thinks ? His wife goes out with coworkers / friends until 3am and comes home drunk...?

Does he know the extent of thier chats ?

Maybe you should ask him ?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Can I ask something unrelated? Do you have male friends? 

Why doesn’t he have male friends, a solid group of men since moving to your country, and why does he mostly associate with only women?


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## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

This is why you learn boundaries on opposite sex friends. All that modern crap about men and women should be good friends etc etc and all the TV sitcom friends is a load of rubbish. 
Caring about your spouse is practicing good boundaries. Hanging out one on one is a date - labeling it something else doesn't change what it is. Neither of you should have single opposite sex friends, or ones you are attracted to. You shouldn't divulge any personal information to opposite sex friends or talk regularly or about your marriage. 
I would never date someone in the first place that didn't share my views on this, and it's very easy to find people with good boundaries and understanding of human nature.
Over 80% of unfaithful spouses don't actively seek to cheat - they fall into it over time. Limerance is a powerful thing, and marriage is long and hard, full of ups and downs.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I always love posters who use bullet points...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@Sophiadeb - It was a bit odd that you felt relief and that he essentially had integrity because he deleted conversations that were questionable. I’d never seen that one come up in the cheater’s handbook before.

But assuming he is being honest and sincere, you need counseling to help establish boundaries and credibility and for him to be able to voice his concerns about following your dreams (job) and not his. Your very independence may feel threatening to him, like you having all the cards. I think some of the conversation should include where you want to be in 5, 10 and 20 years from now. What would work for both of you. And you need to revisit things on a regular basis.

One other thing. You said, I think, that you were working on being more present for him. Could you explain what that, to you, means?

Really wishing everything irks out great for both of you. There’s some hard work ahead; there’s no quick fix here.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Right , I hope things work out. I wo UK ld be concerned, however, that it took your intervention to bring him around. One would hope that a spouse is sufficiently evolved and mature to have realized the impropriety on his own.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Megaforce said:


> Right , I hope things work out. I wo UK ld be concerned, however, that it took your intervention to bring him around. One would hope that a spouse is sufficiently evolved and mature to have realized the impropriety on his own.


There but for the grace of God go I. I don’t know that there’s a real difference between recognizing boundary issues on your own, or having someone help you. In the latter case, it can demonstrate a degree of respect and acceptance of accountability. 

He now has help (to overcome temptation) available from his wife. Would it be best if he had recognized on his own? Only, I think, early on. Thinking you’ve got everything under control because you didn’t give in… it could be a “this time” sort of thing. Where you create a false sense of control over your destiny they allows you to push those boundary limits out a little bit more each time, because you believe you know where that final line is drawn and you wouldn’t pass it.

But you KNOW your wife would not agree to boundary encroachment as a good idea. OP saw the progression and will help him stay true to course.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> There but for the grace of God go I. I don’t know that there’s a real difference between recognizing boundary issues on your own, or having someone help you. In the latter case, it can demonstrate a degree of respect and acceptance of accountability.
> 
> He now has help (to overcome temptation) available from his wife. Would it be best if he had recognized on his own? Only, I think, early on. Thinking you’ve got everything under control because you didn’t give in… it could be a “this time” sort of thing. Where you create a false sense of control over your destiny they allows you to push those boundary limits out a little bit more each time, because you believe you know where that final line is drawn and you wouldn’t pass it.
> 
> But you KNOW your wife would not agree to boundary encroachment as a good idea. OP saw the progression and will help him stay true to course.


Right. Me, I am pretty sure I' d recognize it. Might be arrogance.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Megaforce said:


> Right. Me, I am pretty sure I' d recognize it. Might be arrogance.


Exactly. We can be a bit too sure of ourselves. Self-doubt, in the right amount, is a good thing. A regular gut-check. But we can be too confident to believe we should need it. Whatever the situation is, if we recognize it, then it’s the exception to the rules. Because we just KNOW that we’d never cross that line. Which by the way we moved out a tiny little bit because it assumed we weren’t trustworthy.

So to OP, I’m really glad for the way you caught it and how things are working out. All except that odd thing where you allowed him to put a positive spin on deleted messages. That I don’t get.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

GC1234 said:


> That's a crock of crap. He is worried about HER, but not YOU? Really. You have a big problem here. This 'friendship' needs to end right away. I'm almost tempted to have him choose. Either he chooses their friendship, or your marriage.


Morally speaking i understand what he means but they took advantage of my moral compass to take their friendship to another level so that's what's wrong with it and where i saw a red flag! He has always been Sam droping off everyone at home (men and women) but the follow up talk in the car is a no-no!


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> I wonder what this woman's husband thinks ? His wife goes out with coworkers / friends until 3am and comes home drunk...?
> 
> Does he know the extent of thier chats ?
> 
> Maybe you should ask him ?


Well it turns out he is worse than her. No boundaries at all and even has multiple history of PA!!! SMH!


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> Can I ask something unrelated? Do you have male friends?
> 
> Why doesn’t he have male friends, a solid group of men since moving to your country, and why does he mostly associate with only women?


Yes i do and always have. When we met in our early twenties he was so surprised my best friends are both men and women. I actually "thought" him that such friendships can exist as long as bounderies are clear and the spouse/partner is always on front row. It is so crystal clear and has always been that he ended up getting used to the concept. My male best friends are part of our family now, some were even his groomsmen. That is why i am not shocked he has female friends per say.

There group is composed of 5 women and 3 men so he has 2 male friends in the groups and one is the husband of the female "friend". He also works with them.

Fast fwd to present day : where everything went wrong is when my husband forgot his boundaries and started one on one with her (by chats and in real), talking about our initimate matters, teasing eachother all day, and putting me at the back of the scene.... She was in half of the conversations for one reason or another.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Yeah, he really crossed the line.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

DamianDamian said:


> This is why you learn boundaries on opposite sex friends. All that modern crap about men and women should be good friends etc etc and all the TV sitcom friends is a load of rubbish.
> Caring about your spouse is practicing good boundaries. Hanging out one on one is a date - labeling it something else doesn't change what it is. Neither of you should have single opposite sex friends, or ones you are attracted to. You shouldn't divulge any personal information to opposite sex friends or talk regularly or about your marriage.
> I would never date someone in the first place that didn't share my views on this, and it's very easy to find people with good boundaries and understanding of human nature.
> Over 80% of unfaithful spouses don't actively seek to cheat - they fall into it over time. Limerance is a powerful thing, and marriage is long and hard, full of ups and downs.


I agree with you (at 90% 😊). All you mention here was crystal clear for us all these years. Even if we both have opposite sex friends, the boundaries were clear and all those intimate stuff were out of topic. Actually even with our same sex friends we don't share our couple issues. We talk and deal with it ourselves. We were a team against the world.
I don't know what got into him to shatter all that 😓. When we had the talk this weekend what hurt him the most is that he think he lost mybtrust forever because we both had absolute trust to one another on this topic. And he knows he just broke that.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Sophiadeb said:


> Morally speaking i understand what he means but they took advantage of my moral compass to take their friendship to another level so that's what's wrong with it and where i saw a red flag! He has always been Sam droping off everyone at home (men and women) but the follow up talk in the car is a no-no!


Right, but YOU have to make sure boundaries are in place. I think you've been far too nice about it. That has to change. He clearly can't be trusted to have a friendship with this woman. I'd like to see if you had male friends and acted in a similar fashion. I somehow think it wouldn't go over so well.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> @Sophiadeb - It was a bit odd that you felt relief and that he essentially had integrity because he deleted conversations that were questionable. I’d never seen that one come up in the cheater’s handbook before.
> 
> But assuming he is being honest and sincere, you need counseling to help establish boundaries and credibility and for him to be able to voice his concerns about following your dreams (job) and not his. Your very independence may feel threatening to him, like you having all the cards. I think some of the conversation should include where you want to be in 5, 10 and 20 years from now. What would work for both of you. And you need to revisit things on a regular basis.
> 
> ...


For the deleted conversations : what i found honnest was the fact that he told me when he wasn't obliged to tell me. He told me he deleted it but also some of what is contained. Some of it i already knew because i read them some wee more recent so i didn't know about it.

For the counseling: it definitely is something to consider. Cause yes loads of work await for us on finding a middle ground

Being more there for him: i meant being less focused on my milliom work related issues and observe him more to know when he is unwell. I consider that sometimes our/his problems are rich people's problem so i give it only half an ear uncounsciously (versus the real world problems that i deal with in my work).


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> Right , I hope things work out. I wo UK ld be concerned, however, that it took your intervention to bring him around. One would hope that a spouse is sufficiently evolved and mature to have realized the impropriety on his own.


I hoped so too...


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

GC1234 said:


> Right, but YOU have to make sure boundaries are in place. I think you've been far too nice about it. That has to change. He clearly can't be trusted to have a friendship with this woman. I'd like to see if you had male friends and acted in a similar fashion. I somehow think it wouldn't go over so well.


You are totally right! I have been too trusting and naive.
He says he trusts me with his eyes closed because he knows my moral compass is untouchable and whatever i do i woyld never let something happen. But that is in my opinion only hypothetic. I really doubt he would have been ok if i acted like he did.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Glad that you had that talk with him and he had his come to Jesus moment, but words are easy. Going forth, his actions will determine whether he really means them. 
Good luck, OP.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Sophiadeb said:


> You are totally right! I have been too trusting and naive.
> He says he trusts me with his eyes closed because he knows my moral compass is untouchable and whatever i do i woyld never let something happen. But that is in my opinion only hypothetic. I really doubt he would have been ok if i acted like he did.


Well, all I can say is time will tell, believe actions, not is words.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Sophiadeb said:


> For the deleted conversations : what i found honnest was the fact that he told me when he wasn't obliged to tell me. He told me he deleted it but also some of what is contained. Some of it i already knew because i read them some wee more recent so i didn't know about it.
> 
> For the counseling: it definitely is something to consider. Cause yes loads of work await for us on finding a middle ground
> 
> Being more there for him: i meant being less focused on my milliom work related issues and observe him more to know when he is unwell. I consider that sometimes our/his problems are rich people's problem so i give it only half an ear uncounsciously (versus the real world problems that i deal with in my work).


 Your situation is very close to mine. The problem here is men and women do not make friendships. That's not the natural path of a man/woman relationship. When dealing with my wife's emotional affair the most painful words she spoke to me was. "He was my best friend and you are taking him away from me." The truth was she was deeply emotionally invested in the relationship. So much so that she was willing to choose that friend over me. I broken them up by simply telling her that if I found them talking again I'd make sure everyone she knows knew what was going on. That's all it took for her to stop talking to her "best friend". Years later after therapy she realized he was taking advantage of her traumatized mental state and was grooming her for a physical affair.

I work in Tech and can tell you deleted conversations can be recovered. Conversation can be done on apps that remove them and just deleting these messages he did "for you" really means nothing. I know to you it does, but men don't care about keeping histories of text messages. We just don't have emotional attachments to that like women do. Men don't spend hours with people that we aren't emotionally attached to. I mean my male best friends; we talk maybe twice a week if that. I have female acquaintances and friends but if they come to me for emotional support I get my wife involved and let her help. 

The fact that he is placing himself in situations to be available for a physical affair to be possible is unacceptable. I would never drive a drunk woman home by myself without someone else present. Especially when the solution is as simple as having another female coworker drive her home, calling her husband to come and get her, etc. You need to stop thinking of this from your perspective and see what he is really doing. He is placating you but not really changing his actions.

I am willing to bet that their conversations don't cease they move to telegram or whatsapp. Unless you see his behavior change it regarding her then he's playing you. Set your boundaries, not conversing with this woman for non-professional reason, no seeing her without her husband present. He should be inviting you to these events where she is present. If you really want to know what is happening you should set these boundaries and then cease speaking about her. Cease all your efforts to prevent him from being with her. Then see if he returns to his previous behavior. 

You can't be in a healthy relationship where you have to constantly monitor him. You can't fix a relationship where the other person is always going to shift what he needs from you for him to be happy. In a healthy relationship, happiness is not really derived from the other person. Its two happy healthy people, coming together to accomplish something better than they could on their own. Like raising kids, or building a home. All you will do by what you are doing now is make them try harder to hide if they are in a relationship. You can't make him want to be loyal in your relationship and if he chooses to betray your boundaries and trust. Then move to separation. If nothing changes move to divorce.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

badbane said:


> Your situation is very close to mine. The problem here is men and women do not make friendships. That's not the natural path of a man/woman relationship. When dealing with my wife's emotional affair the most painful words she spoke to me was. "He was my best friend and you are taking him away from me." The truth was she was deeply emotionally invested in the relationship. So much so that she was willing to choose that friend over me. I broken them up by simply telling her that if I found them talking again I'd make sure everyone she knows knew what was going on. That's all it took for her to stop talking to her "best friend". Years later after therapy she realized he was taking advantage of her traumatized mental state and was grooming her for a physical affair.
> 
> I work in Tech and can tell you deleted conversations can be recovered. Conversation can be done on apps that remove them and just deleting these messages he did "for you" really means nothing. I know to you it does, but men don't care about keeping histories of text messages. We just don't have emotional attachments to that like women do. Men don't spend hours with people that we aren't emotionally attached to. I mean my male best friends; we talk maybe twice a week if that. I have female acquaintances and friends but if they come to me for emotional support I get my wife involved and let her help.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for sharing your experience and for your advise.
I will try to follow your advise: make the boundaries clear and then stop talking about her. What is confusing me is the following: my boundaries are going to separate him from his group of friends. That, in my own principles, not a fair thing to do. It feels like a punishement when in reality all i want is fornhim to stop to see her. But she is part off his group of friends so i don't hownto set my boundaries without isolating him from his friends. I want to save our marriage form this specific instance but in a sustainable manner, which means i don't want to be the type of wife that forbids him from seeing his friends.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@Sophiadeb

He is having an emotional affair soon to be physical

Put on your big girl panties and shut this down
Tell him you are not working on the marriage as there is a third party in the marriage. He is sharing with her what he should be sharing with you
ask him to read Not just Friends by Shirley Glass
Start doing the 180 on him
Go see a lawyer to see your options. If he ain’t stop file. Yiu must be willing to lose this marriage to save it
Tell her husband about their relationship, constant texting, late night drop offs etc
does he work? He can still live in the country you are in, see the kids and be divorced. He needs to be willing to fight for the marriage and do whatever it takes to build trust
what is wrong with an Uber or her husband to fetch her. That is an excuse from your husband.


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## Landofblue (May 28, 2019)

I agree with downloading NOT JUST FRIENDS and both of you reading it.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Some updates and seeeking for opinion :

So the discussions continued and it was going pretty well in general. My H was more open aboit his conversations with her, chatted less even though he still does and kept doing some of his activities with her and the other friends they have in common at work and at the gym for the past week. It was something i was generally ok with (even though it's always better not to hear her name haha).

But a few days ago he asks me if i am ok that he goes out at their usual weekend dinner out in town, except that this time there will only be him and 3 women including her. I kind of lost it and it went south again for a couple of days. I couldn't understand how he couldn't even take a break from them just for a couple of days/weeks for my sake. It's true that she is going through a pretty rough patch herself this week and he wants to support her but again his priority must be me!

Some harsh dicussions happened and this time is took more time to come to an agreement. He finally dropped the idea of going out with them although he a hard time accepting my fixation on this. His version is "i know i did some things out of line but there has never been and there still isn't nothing other than friendship. So although i do understand why you were worried, now that we have talked it through and you know the truth you shouldn't be so stressed about it."
I obviously didn't agree. After many hours of discussion we agreed that i should clearly give him my boundaries (list of dos and don'ts). I asked him to give me a bit of a time to think it through so that i come up with something i am confortable with both for my marriage and morally.

In the mean time (before i give him my list), i found this on a conversation he had with her this morning :

She: You'll have to explain to me when you want. Because I can tell you that your reasons are not obvious (i think she is referring to the fact that he cancelled going out with them without an explanation).

Him: Look it's just that ***(my name) doesn't appreciate that I'm surrounded by only girls, that I go to parties where I'm the only guy... and I deep down i agree with her. In short, we discussed it and I have to change on this. But it doesn't change the fact that we're friends and if you need me, well, I'm here. I didn't want to talk to you about it right away because you have other fish to fry at the moment but I don't want you to be pissed off at me either.

Her: Know that I'm not pissed at you at all and I understand that if it doesn't suit your wife, it's completely normal for you to change some things. Intellectually I find it good and I agree.


What do you make of all this??
Thanks!


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

i just read through your story and thread here. first off you said he had long talks with her alone, drives her home alone and she is very drunk, had texting which involved sexual fantasies, is upset he cant go with the girls to a dinner, her husband cheats like crazy and there still together which would mean there in an open relationship, your husband only shows concern for her like this, the OW is very understanding of your marriage with him(obviously she doesn't want you leaving him cause she is already married) , then uses you as the excuse why he cant go with them.... is this all correct?

if so he is definetly in an EA possible slight PA . im a man and from everything you said it is an EA. if a man has a family, wife that he 100% doesn't want to lose, the second that OW became a concern she would be gone. im just curious if you had a male friend that was making your husband very jealous and you were staying out late with him. would you stay friends with him regardless of your husbands concerns?

families that eat together stay together... not leave the wife/babysitter at home while they drive home a woman repeatedly drunk at 3am.. sorry but i would be worried if i were you . the red flags arent just up , they are going off full sirens


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

Ugh. I think their relationship is just too close for married people. I’m not of the mindset that married men and women can’t be friends, but their bond is just too much and it’s hurting your relationship. If there was literally nothing going on he would be able to say hey, this is causing a problem in my marriage, so we just can’t hang out anymore unless she’s there (although I think that ship has sailed too). And she should agree wholeheartedly. I really, really dislike that she said she agrees intellectually, because that means that emotionally she’s not okay with it. They’ve 100% crossed boundaries. I think you need to go hard core here. But that in itself is a problem .


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Your husband, Sophia, is too much work. Lol Sorry, I know you love him but he shouldn’t need you to set boundaries and constantly have these sophomoric discussions with him.

Why aren’t you invited to these dinners? I know why. I don’t think he’s cheating, but I also think he likes her. More than a friend. The fact that he had to check in with her to make sure she’s cool with what you think? Sigh. 🤦‍♀️

I think you need to really start looking out for you.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

Going to be blunt - your husband (maybe soon to be ex?) has SERIOUS boundary issues and is showing LACK OF INTEGRITY and NO adherence to your marriage vows.

Maybe he is incredibly stupid (socially) but I don't think so - he is choosing to spend time with other women one-on-one and ??? else.

You need to get out your rolling pin and inform him of the "house rules for a married couple." and use the pin to get his attention first. (figuratively!)

If he is not going to follow the rules for a married couple (other than polyamorous) - you need to hand him a suit case and tell him to pack up and exit. 

Avoid "Marriage Counselors" like the plague - he needs a trip behind the barn with someone who has decent morals. Or "IC" - maybe. My opinion is just lousy morals. Lack of respect for you and your children. No care what family or friends (if they are decent friends) think.
Selfish in a word -

I suggest you harden your heart and put on a pair of BITXX Boots!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My exH, over the decades, had several very close female friends who reported to him. He knew that I felt those relationships were too close and that I wanted him to stay on a professional level with them. But he didn’t. That was the cause of many arguments and lots of gaslighting and blame-shifting and lies. He didn’t want a divorce — and fought it — but neither did he want to give up those “friendships”.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

TheGodfather said:


> i just read through your story and thread here. first off you said he had long talks with her alone, drives her home alone and she is very drunk, had texting which involved sexual fantasies, is upset he cant go with the girls to a dinner, her husband cheats like crazy and there still together which would mean there in an open relationship, your husband only shows concern for her like this, the OW is very understanding of your marriage with him(obviously she doesn't want you leaving him cause she is already married) , then uses you as the excuse why he cant go with them.... is this all correct?


Thanks for taking the time to analyse my situation and give your opinion. On most things you are correct yes. What was maybe a little misundertood is :
1) texting which involved sexual fantasies: i found one message all in all that made a reference to a sexual scene in a movie. I don't really know why it came up as it was obviously a followup of another discussion. and that is exactly what worries me....i don't know why it came up in the first place
2) she is not in a on open relationship although i find her way too "nice" to her H after what he did to her. she is devasted and apparently they are currently to to sort things out. it's a very recent discovery to her although the PA has happenned about a year ago apparently.
3) i wouldn't say he used me as an excuse why he can't go out because it was my idea in one of our conversations, that he can be transparent with her as to why he will not go out with them as often. What suprised me is that he didn't tell me he already told her. Maybe he will at some point...we will see. He now knows i have access to his chats with her because he put back his chatting tool on a device we use in common. So he knows it's possible i see the message if i look.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

TheGodfather said:


> if so he is definetly in an EA possible slight PA . im a man and from everything you said it is an EA. if a man has a family, wife that he 100% doesn't want to lose, the second that OW became a concern she would be gone. im just curious if you had a male friend that was making your husband very jealous and you were staying out late with him. would you stay friends with him regardless of your husbands concerns?
> 
> families that eat together stay together... not leave the wife/babysitter at home while they drive home a woman repeatedly drunk at 3am.. sorry but i would be worried if i were you . the red flags arent just up , they are going off full sirens


I totally agree with you. I just can't seem to make him see it. For me there is EA for sure. And he doesn't see it. Or unconsciously refuses to because the minute he accepts it he will have to detach himself completely from her.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> Ugh. I think their relationship is just too close for married people. I’m not of the mindset that married men and women can’t be friends, but their bond is just too much and it’s hurting your relationship. If there was literally nothing going on he would be able to say hey, this is causing a problem in my marriage, so we just can’t hang out anymore unless she’s there (although I think that ship has sailed too). And she should agree wholeheartedly. I really, really dislike that she said she agrees intellectually, because that means that emotionally she’s not okay with it. They’ve 100% crossed boundaries. I think you need to go hard core here. But that in itself is a problem .


i feel like you are in my mind. That is exactly what i think as well.
What would"going hard core" be in your opinion?


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Your husband, Sophia, is too much work. Lol Sorry, I know you love him but he shouldn’t need you to set boundaries and constantly have these sophomoric discussions with him.
> 
> Why aren’t you invited to these dinners? I know why. I don’t think he’s cheating, but I also think he likes her. More than a friend. The fact that he had to check in with her to make sure she’s cool with what you think? Sigh. 🤦‍♀️
> 
> I think you need to really start looking out for you.


I KNOW!!!! Telling her i had set boundaries was not a problem as such because i wanted him to put me back in the scene between him and her (and the other friends). But the whole conversation sounded like "i don't want to hurt your feelings" than "hey, no more going out for me cause it's making my wife uncomfortable, you guys have fun".

What do you mean 'i need to look out for myself"?


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

Sophiadeb said:


> I totally agree with you. I just can't seem to make him see it. For me there is EA for sure. And he doesn't see it. Or unconsciously refuses to because the minute he accepts it he will have to detach himself completely from her.


from what you have written he is doing everything possible to stay close to her and she doesn't seem to mind. considering she was cheated on you would think the last she would want you to think is she would do that to another woman yet she doesnt seem to notice or care how you feel. nor does your husband either. i know he has said how bad he feels you lost trust in him but for some strange crazy reason he is fighting tooth and nail to still hold onto OW anyway he can.. actions speak louder than words, but i have been wrong before


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

ShatteredKat said:


> Going to be blunt - your husband (maybe soon to be ex?) has SERIOUS boundary issues and is showing LACK OF INTEGRITY and NO adherence to your marriage vows.
> 
> Maybe he is incredibly stupid (socially) but I don't think so - he is choosing to spend time with other women one-on-one and ??? else.
> 
> ...


Selfish is indeed the word. Even if there was really no EA (which i think there is), the fact that he wants to keep his "saviour" or "the best person" title from her despite the fact that he knows how it's making me feel is super selfish!


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

Sophiadeb said:


> i feel like you are in my mind. That is exactly what i think as well.
> What would"going hard core" be in your opinion?


I’ve never been in this position, so take take that with a grain of salt. I truly know that everything is easier said than done. I think at this point hard core would be drawing a line in the sand. The friendship ends. And if that means the friend group, that would suck for him, but it’s necessary, if she’s going to be there. I’ve jokingly always said never drink so much that you can’t ever drink again. That’s where he’s at. You could also have a talk with her. Lay it all out. That will piss him off. But it would be very telling. At this point, she knows their relationship is causing an issue in his marriage. If they were just truly friends, she would say and do the right thing. She would tell him that they can’t socialize any more, to save his marriage, because when you really care for someone, you do what’s best for them. That they can’t/won’t separate from each other is really concerning. He’s risking his family for her. Repeatedly. It’s time to give him an ultimatum. And I hate ultimatums. I hate to say it, but I could almost guarantee they have another way to communicate, and the things you see are designed for you to see. And he most certainly knows he is in an EA. He just may not know the terminology. People go to mind boggling lengths to hide things. It just shouldn’t be a hardship for him to not go out every week. Big hugs.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

TheGodfather said:


> from what you have written he is doing everything possible to stay close to her and she doesn't seem to mind. considering she was cheated on you would think the last she would want you to think is she would do that to another woman yet she doesnt seem to notice or care how you feel. nor does your husband either. i know he has said how bad he feels you lost trust in him but for some strange crazy reason he is fighting tooth and nail to still hold onto OW anyway he can.. actions speak louder than words, but i have been wrong before


you are so right! i don't know what to do to reverse the situation in a smart manner. i believe that showing some level of controlled trust to people is a way to make people be (or become) more trustworthy. i want to avoid ultimatums and divorce threats for now but correct this situation that is driving me crazy. I can't focus on anything else lately as i am always watchning/analysing/interprating his behavior and actions. At home, when there is no topic that involves her everything is going for the best. I want to build on that but do all i can to avoid their "thing" to go any further and to die progressively! Please advise what a smart move would be.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

Sophiadeb said:


> you are so right! i don't know what to do to reverse the situation in a smart manner. i believe that showing some level of controlled trust to people is a way to make people be (or become) more trustworthy. i want to avoid ultimatums and divorce threats for now but correct this situation that is driving me crazy. I can't focus on anything else lately as i am always watchning/analysing/interprating his behavior and actions. At home, when there is no topic that involves her everything is going for the best. I want to build on that but do all i can to avoid their "thing" to go any further and to die progressively! Please advise what a smart move would be.


I always trust and give the benefit of the doubt to people. I’m not one to assume that just because I feel a certain way about something it’s because people are trying to hurt to me. But this is really personal to you, and it’s really consuming you. So I think it’s gone beyond that point of trusting and thinking that because you trusted and respected their friendship that they would do the same back. Because they haven’t. I think this whole thing seems further along to the rest of us than to you. I also think that his going out this much, out late, out with someone who is getting drunk every time they go out, etc. etc. is not seen as normal to most of us. Personally, I’m not a jealous person. But I would have put my foot down on this long ago. I have no problem with a well placed f you when necessary lol. This shouldn’t be such a torturous choice for him. That’s the bottom line.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Sophiadeb said:


> Thanks for taking the time to analyse my situation and give your opinion. On most things you are correct yes. What was maybe a little misundertood is :
> 1) texting which involved sexual fantasies: i found one message all in all that made a reference to a sexual scene in a movie. I don't really know why it came up as it was obviously a followup of another discussion. and that is exactly what worries me....i don't know why it came up in the first place
> 2) she is not in a on open relationship although i find her way too "nice" to her H after what he did to her. she is devasted and apparently they are currently to to sort things out. it's a very recent discovery to her although the PA has happenned about a year ago apparently.
> 3) i wouldn't say he used me as an excuse why he can't go out because it was my idea in one of our conversations, that he can be transparent with her as to why he will not go out with them as often. What suprised me is that he didn't tell me he already told her. Maybe he will at some point...we will see. He now knows i have access to his chats with her because he put back his chatting tool on a device we use in common. So he knows it's possible i see the message if i look.


he’s a grown man acting like a baby! Why is he putting the responsibility of having a boundary, morals and integrity onto YOU? That’s just crappy of him!
If you have to spell it out for him and spoon feed the rules of marriage to him - then it’s already over! He’s looking for the loophole.

and since he continues to defend her and isn’t holding YOU and only you as his top priority - then the marriage isn’t worth saving.

he’s acting like a schmuck! He should be willing to hand you peace of mind on a silver platter - but he isn’t doing everything he possibly can to give you that! He is waaaay to comfortable betraying you because all he can see is how to please his OW.

him asking to go away with the other 3 women is really despicable of HIM!
And her hard times? She should be in therapy! He shouldn’t be the shoulder she cries on…she can hire someone for that role.

he isn’t treating you right. I don’t think “he’s going to get it” unless you make him REALLY scared and uncomfortable! Stop trying to make him so comfortable!

HE should be the one making 200% effort FOR YOU - FOR CHANGE!
And since he isn’t… (like asking to go away with her) your marriage is in way more trouble than you even thought!
Pack his bag and tell him unless he stops this with her and focuses soley on you for a while - there is no marriage to save - he’s ruined it.

he still holds ALL the power and is fixated on his OW. You need that dynamic to change - and quick. The fastest most effective way to get your power back is for him to think it’s over and it’s his fault.


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

Sophiadeb said:


> you are so right! i don't know what to do to reverse the situation in a smart manner. i believe that showing some level of controlled trust to people is a way to make people be (or become) more trustworthy. i want to avoid ultimatums and divorce threats for now but correct this situation that is driving me crazy. I can't focus on anything else lately as i am always watchning/analysing/interprating his behavior and actions. At home, when there is no topic that involves her everything is going for the best. I want to build on that but do all i can to avoid their "thing" to go any further and to die progressively! Please advise what a smart move would be.


If he truly is telling the truth, if he truly doesn't love her and is just a friend, if nothing has ever happened and he isn't in an EA possible PA with her, if he loves you and only you and he wants to put your mind at ease . ask him to take a polygraph test .. or hire a PI to watch him. i suggest the polygraph test cause when you bring it up to him and he refuses that will speak volumes if he is being faithful or not. plus its easier and quicker.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> I KNOW!!!! Telling her i had set boundaries was not a problem as such because i wanted him to put me back in the scene between him and her (and the other friends). But the whole conversation sounded like "i don't want to hurt your feelings" than "hey, no more going out for me cause it's making my wife uncomfortable, you guys have fun".
> 
> What do you mean 'i need to look out for myself"?


He doesn’t need to tell her anything. Nothing wrong with having friends but he should have simply had boundaries from day one in his own mind, and not crossed them. The tone would have been set without needing to “inform” her of anything.

What I meant by my comment is that you need to start looking out for yourself in case this turns south. In case he is having an emotional affair or this “friendship” turns into one. Your husband needs to put you and the marriage first and it sounds like he’s still trying to juggle his inappropriate social life with the marriage. And you sound like the forever understanding wife. I think you just need to draw your own boundaries and stick by them.😌


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

If any of it makes you uncomfortable - HE should be offering to end contact with her.
And if he isn’t - then he’s not valuing you/the marriage they way that he should be.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I think he is crossing a line and you don’t want to give an ultimatum because you aren’t sure he’ll pick you.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Your husband, Sophia, is too much work. Lol Sorry, I know you love him but he shouldn’t need you to set boundaries and constantly have these sophomoric discussions with him.
> 
> Why aren’t you invited to these dinners? I know why. I don’t think he’s cheating, but I also think he likes her. More than a friend. The fact that he had to check in with her to make sure she’s cool with what you think? Sigh. 🤦‍♀️
> 
> I think you need to really start looking out for you.


Exactly What does it feel like to be married to a guy that is so dense that he cannot realize that all this is inappropriate? Does he , perhaps, have Asperger's? Seriously , a normal person with any emotional intelligence or social awareness would not do this type of stuff. Something is dramatically off with this guy.
Reminds me of another poster's story where her husband,a guy in his 40s or 50s tried to claim he was completely unaware that buying drinks for some strange woman he met in a bar, would not be interpreted as inviting an advance.
Sitting in a parked car in the wee hours of the morning with an intoxicated ( allegedly ) female coworker and he is okay with this?
Sometimes, when we are with someone for a long time, our perspective becomes off. Over time one becomes doubtful about whether one is just too rigid or controlling. I see this in the betrayed men a lot where their wife labels the controlling, jealous, distrustful when their concerns are justified. 
Run the stuff your husband is doing past 100 people and I would be surprised if any of them thought it was ok.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Megaforce said:


> Exactly What does it feel like to be married to a guy that is so dense that he cannot realize that all this is inappropriate? Does he , perhaps, have Asperger's? Seriously , a normal person with any emotional intelligence or social awareness would not do this type of stuff. Something is dramatically off with this guy.
> Reminds me of another poster's story where her husband,a guy in his 40s or 50s tried to claim he was completely unaware that buying drinks for some strange woman he met in a bar, would not be interpreted as inviting an advance.
> Sitting in a parked car in the wee hours of the morning with an intoxicated ( allegedly ) female coworker and he is okay with this?
> Sometimes, when we are with someone for a long time, our perspective becomes off. Over time one becomes doubtful about whether one is just too rigid or controlling. I see this in the betrayed men a lot where their wife labels the controlling, jealous, distrustful when their concerns are justified.
> Run the stuff your husband is doing past 100 people and I would be surprised if any of them thought it was ok.


And what kind of married woman is hanging out in bars with other guys? (OP’s husband’s friend) She’s going through a “rough patch” in her marriage …hmm, can’t imagine why? lol I just think if people put as much effort into their marriages as they do with these “friendships,” we would see less divorces.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Your husband KNOWS his actions are hurting your marriage. He’s just playing dumb so he can continue on with no boundaries.

he needs professional help - he loves the ego strokes
He loves being the rescuer
He loves her attention 
He’s very connected to her

if he won’t go to therapy once a week with the intention to change and to learn why he has such huge weak areas then you may as well divorce him!
He LOVES this kind of attention from her! And you shouldn’t EVER feel the need to compete with THAT!
If HE chooses to continue with this little game he loves - and you tell him to stop - he will likely be depressed…AND mad at you! Mad for taking away his drug and his play toy.

yes, he’s like a petulant child who wants his toy to play with.

the sooner you understand his mindset - the better off you will be. the sooner you implement consequences - the better off you’ll be in the long term.
Nothing changes? Expect the same crappy behavior from him.

man’s that woman should see a professional herself if she has this many problems! You don’t steal another woman’s husband to dump all your problems on them to solve!


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> Exactly What does it feel like to be married to a guy that is so dense that he cannot realize that all this is inappropriate? Does he , perhaps, have Asperger's? Seriously , a normal person with any emotional intelligence or social awareness would not do this type of stuff. Something is dramatically off with this guy.
> Reminds me of another poster's story where her husband,a guy in his 40s or 50s tried to claim he was completely unaware that buying drinks for some strange woman he met in a bar, would not be interpreted as inviting an advance.
> Sitting in a parked car in the wee hours of the morning with an intoxicated ( allegedly ) female coworker and he is okay with this?
> Sometimes, when we are with someone for a long time, our perspective becomes off. Over time one becomes doubtful about whether one is just too rigid or controlling. I see this in the betrayed men a lot where their wife labels the controlling, jealous, distrustful when their concerns are justified.
> Run the stuff your husband is doing past 100 people and I would be surprised if any of them thought it was ok.


It was estabilished that this act was wrong and he appologized about that. He admitted that he passed the boundaries and that he will never do it again. Maybe you missed that part because this thread is getting too long.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> Your husband KNOWS his actions are hurting your marriage. He’s just playing dumb so he can continue on with no boundaries.
> 
> he needs professional help - he loves the ego strokes
> He loves being the rescuer
> ...


The words are a bit harsh but i get your point and you are right. There is a lot of ego and attention seeking that led to this!


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> I think he is crossing a line and you don’t want to give an ultimatum because you aren’t sure he’ll pick you.


I think we should stop being so jugmental of people's feelings and choices if we are here to help people who are desperate to find solutions that aren't black or white. Our story as i tried to explain earlier is a bit complicated because this person that i married 17 years ago sacrificed a lot for me to be doing what i do today. He litterally left his job, changed his carrier (went to college again after he was over 35 to be able to do another profession), is paid less that half what he could make if he was in his former highly qualified job, left his family and lives in a country where he doesn't speak the language nor understand the culture. Not because he is adventurous. But because i had a dream and he wanted me to realize it.

Asking him to cut complete bonds with her means that he needs to cut bonds with his group of friends. And cutting that is removing from him something that helps him stay sane in a situation i have put him into. Another member of this forum has recomanded us rightfully that we should take a couple therapy together because i should also stop making him live a life that isn't his choice and find a balance.

What i am trying to say is that, if you don't have anything constructive to say please don't come and add comments that are more hurtful than helpful. And for your information, it turns out he will pick me and have told me so, so many times without me needing to give him the ultimatum. He even said that he will cut off ties with the whole group and quit all the gym activity within one week if i can finally breath. But that would be killing him in small flames the father of my chidlren. Without adding the fact that it risks to make him become passive agressive and ruin even further our marriage if he blames me for his lonliness. So please be more empathetic next time you comment on someone's thread.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Landofblue said:


> I agree with downloading NOT JUST FRIENDS and both of you reading it.


i read some extracts online, it really sounds like something we should read!


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> I’ve never been in this position, so take take that with a grain of salt. I truly know that everything is easier said than done. I think at this point hard core would be drawing a line in the sand. The friendship ends. And if that means the friend group, that would suck for him, but it’s necessary, if she’s going to be there. I’ve jokingly always said never drink so much that you can’t ever drink again. That’s where he’s at. You could also have a talk with her. Lay it all out. That will piss him off. But it would be very telling. At this point, she knows their relationship is causing an issue in his marriage. If they were just truly friends, she would say and do the right thing. She would tell him that they can’t socialize any more, to save his marriage, because when you really care for someone, you do what’s best for them. That they can’t/won’t separate from each other is really concerning. He’s risking his family for her. Repeatedly. It’s time to give him an ultimatum. And I hate ultimatums. I hate to say it, but I could almost guarantee they have another way to communicate, and the things you see are designed for you to see. And he most certainly knows he is in an EA. He just may not know the terminology. People go to mind boggling lengths to hide things. It just shouldn’t be a hardship for him to not go out every week. Big hugs.


Thank you for your compassion and understanding words. I have to admit that I have hard time with that ultimatum. Not because he will loose her (that is all i wish for day in day out) but because he will have to leave their group, quit the gym (he is a sports addict) etc... I am trying an intermediate approach : divide and conquer for few weeks and see how that goes. I will go out with them and show that lady that i am around and that if i had been trstful before i am not anymore. If it doesn't work or keeps on driving me crazy, then i'll take him up for his offer to cut ties with his whole group of friends. 

I just cross fringers that he doens't act stupid again this week and make me want to go to the ultimatum again!


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Why didn’t you share that info? Even so, married men shouldn’t hang out with women that make their wife uncomfortable. You either are cool with him dining a woman alone or you aren’t. Regardless, it’s weird.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Pick a a gym she’s not at. Come on. He can run in his own. Join a new gym. You know this isn’t right. You understand that. You just don’t want to face the answer. If it’s not on the up and up, he’ll just sneak around. He’ll stop telling you. Oh? And my husband got his degree at 35. Didn’t come with ladies on the side.


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

TheGodfather said:


> If he truly is telling the truth, if he truly doesn't love her and is just a friend, if nothing has ever happened and he isn't in an EA possible PA with her, if he loves you and only you and he wants to put your mind at ease . ask him to take a polygraph test .. or hire a PI to watch him. i suggest the polygraph test cause when you bring it up to him and he refuses that will speak volumes if he is being faithful or not. plus its easier and quicker.


have you ever asked about a polygraph test?


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Why didn’t you share that info? Even so, married men shouldn’t hang out with women that make their wife uncomfortable. You either are cool with him dining a woman alone or you aren’t. Regardless, it’s weird.


i did but the thread is long so i guess you didn't see it. And yes you are rght, what he is/was doing with her is werid and is creating issues in my marriage. that is why i created this thread to seek for advise on how to handle it given the ccircumstances around it.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

TheGodfather said:


> have you ever asked about a polygraph test?


Oh, i though i answered to that sorry. No because where we live, we have no access to such things. I thought of putting some kind of spy app but he is too much into tech not to notice such things


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

Sophiadeb said:


> Oh, i though i answered to that sorry. No because where we live, we have no access to such things. I thought of putting some kind of spy app but he is too much into tech not to notice such things


how about a PI then?


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Pick a a gym she’s not at. Come on. He can run in his own. Join a new gym. You know this isn’t right. You understand that. You just don’t want to face the answer. If it’s not on the up and up, he’ll just sneak around. He’ll stop telling you. Oh? And my husband got his degree at 35. Didn’t come with ladies on the side.


Yeah that could be a plan B indeed. The gym i am referring to is at their common work place , one very well equiped and that enables him to go there while waiting for the kids to finish class before he can bring them back home. So it didn't come to my mind to suggest changing the gym but yeah eventually that could be an option to conider. 

Not sure what you meant about the degree after 35 so leaving that on the side.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

TheGodfather said:


> how about a PI then?


Yes that could be considered eventually if i see no progress. i have never encoutered one and there are no websites to offer that here. But i wm sure i will find a way if i need to


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Hold up. They even work out at work? Nope. No. I’m sorry, I’d feel like you do. I know you live him and want to trust him. I’d also be destroyed. However, it seems likely there is something really wrong here. I think he’s playing you for a fool. And I get no joy 
from that. But it appears he is cheating.
I worried myself once. But dh shut the socializing down. I know that for a fact. It was tough but we worked it out. I was number one and he had no qualm changing behavior. Your dh doesn’t seem to want to


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Also didn’t meet up alone for dinner etc


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Hold up. They even work out at work? Nope. No. I’m sorry, I’d feel like you do. I know you live him and want to trust him. I’d also be destroyed. However, it seems likely there is something really wrong here. I think he’s playing you for a fool. And I get no joy
> from that. But it appears he is cheating.
> I worried myself once. But dh shut the socializing down. I know that for a fact. It was tough but we worked it out. I was number one and he had no qualm changing behavior. Your dh doesn’t seem to want to


You genuine reaction made me smile  How did you shut the socializing down? you asked him to stop seeing her/his friends? How did you work out the tough consequences?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I didn’t ask him to stop seeing friends. He stills sees his friends. He doesn’t see women alone, go to dinner with women one on one or text all night with colleagues. He does see friends. I’ve met them. I respect them and get along with them. But he’s said and lived it out that if a woman hit on him or made me uncomfortable ( with cause) he’d tell her to get bent and that would be it. Dh goes out with guys locally who mutually respect their wives. When people are good **** it shows. If your husband is aware of hiw miserable you are about this and pushes to sec “ his friend” she’s not a “ friend”. She’s something else


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

His friends are men that go out to local bars that know me, my family, both of us. Owned by people with ethics that would not be party to that. Some people question that but there are places that don’t put up with bad behavior. Also dh doesn’t ask to hang out with women. He’s home and goes out a few hours (6-9) once or twice a month with nerdy dudes from work 2 miles away. No dance clubs or fancy places for hooking up. My issue was baseless insecurity I overcame. If he begged to see a woman for dinner alone he’d be free to do so. As a single man


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Are all his friends women?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Agreed if all women, not so great .


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> It was estabilished that this act was wrong and he appologized about that. He admitted that he passed the boundaries and that he will never do it again. Maybe you missed that part because this thread is getting too long.


Well, that is good. But don't you wonder how a person could be so oblivious to what are pretty established social norms?
Who sits in a car for hours late, late at night talking to a married female coworker? Glad he apologized. Do you have to give him instructions on other norms? How old is he? Was he raised in isolation?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> I think we should stop being so jugmental of people's feelings and choices if we are here to help people who are desperate to find solutions that aren't black or white. Our story as i tried to explain earlier is a bit complicated because this person that i married 17 years ago sacrificed a lot for me to be doing what i do today. He litterally left his job, changed his carrier (went to college again after he was over 35 to be able to do another profession), is paid less that half what he could make if he was in his former highly qualified job, left his family and lives in a country where he doesn't speak the language nor understand the culture. Not because he is adventurous. But because i had a dream and he wanted me to realize it.
> 
> Asking him to cut complete bonds with her means that he needs to cut bonds with his group of friends. And cutting that is removing from him something that helps him stay sane in a situation i have put him into. Another member of this forum has recomanded us rightfully that we should take a couple therapy together because i should also stop making him live a life that isn't his choice and find a balance.
> 
> What i am trying to say is that, if you don't have anything constructive to say please don't come and add comments that are more hurtful than helpful. And for your information, it turns out he will pick me and have told me so, so many times without me needing to give him the ultimatum. He even said that he will cut off ties with the whole group and quit all the gym activity within one week if i can finally breath. But that would be killing him in small flames the father of my chidlren. Without adding the fact that it risks to make him become passive agressive and ruin even further our marriage if he blames me for his lonliness. So please be more empathetic next time you comment on someone's thread.


I can empathize with what you’re saying but most marriages have sacrifices. Your husband could make male friends and bond in so many other ways than with this woman. It is truly great that he’s made such sacrifices for you but hanging out with this woman until 3 am and being her shoulder to cry on, isn’t edifying to your marriage.

I hope he sees that he needs to cut the ties here. I fear that he won’t though, and you’ll be making concessions out of guilt for all he has sacrificed. I also wonder if he’ll sneak to see her if he tells you he isn’t. Just be careful. We aren’t in love with your husband so we just see your dilemma without the emotion.

Personally, I’m not a fan of ultimatums. If I’d ever feel the need to do that with my husband, I think that would tell me it’s over. Hopefully, your mind won’t have to go there at all.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Sophiadeb said:


> The words are a bit harsh but i get your point and you are right. There is a lot of ego and attention seeking that led to this!


can you explain why my words seem harsh?
I’m just trying to map out reality for you and make suggestions that may help you.
I’ve been in your situation - it doesn’t help to make excuses for him.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> can you explain why my words seem harsh?
> I’m just trying to map out reality for you and make suggestions that may help you.
> I’ve been in your situation - it doesn’t help to make excuses for him.


I know, you are totally right.
But it's sometimes hard to hear severe judgements on someone you have respected for half of your life. Like "he’s like a petulant child who wants his toy to play with."
But i am not missing your point. I am grateful you are taking your time to share your insights and experience.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> I can empathize with what you’re saying but most marriages have sacrifices. Your husband could make male friends and bond in so many other ways than with this woman. It is truly great that he’s made such sacrifices for you but hanging out with this woman until 3 am and being her shoulder to cry on, isn’t edifying to your marriage.
> 
> I hope he sees that he needs to cut the ties here. I fear that he won’t though, and you’ll be making concessions out of guilt for all he has sacrificed. I also wonder if he’ll sneak to see her if he tells you he isn’t. Just be careful. We aren’t in love with your husband so we just see your dilemma without the emotion.
> 
> Personally, I’m not a fan of ultimatums. If I’d ever feel the need to do that with my husband, I think that would tell me it’s over. Hopefully, your mind won’t have to go there at all.


Indeed it's hard for me to find a balance between drawing the line without feeling guilty on the consequences. It's more about the guilt you mentionned and the need to keep a happy family than love. 
I am a bitbhoepfull again: i think he is now seeing how this is hurting me and he agreed to pull her out of the "special place" she took in his life. I am gonna give it a few weeks again and keep on reassessing to request a complete cut of ties with her and by consequences his group of friends. He has already offered it so I guess it will be done without an ultimatum as he already knows that is the next step if there is no progress.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Are all his friends women?


No but the group is 5 women 3 men. So if the other two men don't show up he ends up the only guy with the women. Which bothers me 😓. That is what i shared it two days ago


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> His friends are men that go out to local bars that know me, my family, both of us. Owned by people with ethics that would not be party to that. Some people question that but there are places that don’t put up with bad behavior. Also dh doesn’t ask to hang out with women. He’s home and goes out a few hours (6-9) once or twice a month with nerdy dudes from work 2 miles away. No dance clubs or fancy places for hooking up. My issue was baseless insecurity I overcame. If he begged to see a woman for dinner alone he’d be free to do so. As a single man


You have set clear bondaries for yourselves and i can see it's working. If my husband and i get out of this crisis without permanent damage i will follow your example. We have always had untold boundaries because we both assumed the other knew. But clearly thaf was dangerous approach. It took us 17 years to trepass it but it happened. I will make sure the next phase will be better guarded.
thanks for sharing uour experience


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> Well, that is good. But don't you wonder how a person could be so oblivious to what are pretty established social norms?
> Who sits in a car for hours late, late at night talking to a married female coworker? Glad he apologized. Do you have to give him instructions on other norms? How old is he? Was he raised in isolation?


His explanation (which i found lame by the way) is that it was not the initial intention. She was a bit drank so he decided to drive her home (uber is unsafe and her husband is home with the children) and then once they arrived they were having a discussion about their mutual problems so they kept the discussion going. He says he was so sure that nothing else would happen and there weren't any temptation on both sides so he let it happen without realizing how it may look like from the outside. Now that i spell it out he sees how it looks weird but assures me that it didn't happen in that intention. Well... My answer here is that he should have simply said let's continue tomorrow i have to go back home to my family. Anyway, he seems to have understood well now that the initial intention is not necessarly a safeguard for other things from hapenning. Also i am sure it sent the wrong messages to her. If a man does that with me and i am open for advances, i would for sure have other ideas of what he wants from me. So it was wrong through in through out.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

I think you have a great plan going forward and are going to be fine. 

Only time will tell....And I'm sorry that some here paint the worse senerio possible. 

Take what works and leave the rest behind. 

Good luck , Jimi


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

On two occasions my wife told me she didn't trust female friends of mine. I couldn't accept the idea they could be into me. But they were.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

T


Jimi007 said:


> I think you have a great plan going forward and are going to be fine.
> 
> Only time will tell....And I'm sorry that some here paint the worse senerio possible.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your kindness and encouragement 🤞🏽🤞🏽


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> On two occasions my wife told me she didn't trust female friends of mine. I couldn't accept the idea they could be into me. But they were.


That is what i always say. We have a kind of 6th sense and men are usually a bit binary to see it: if she says nothing, then there is nothing .
Could you please tell me how you finally found out the real intention of those 2 female friends?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> No but the group is 5 women 3 men. So if the other two men don't show up he ends up the only guy with the women. Which bothers me 😓. That is what i shared it two days ago


Why do t you go with ? He shouldn’t be with 5 women alone.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

They wouldn’t go out with a man they weren’t into on their own. Your husband is disrespecting you and enjoying this. He’s old enough to know better. Time to choose.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

You’re taking a bit softer approach then I would take, but it is after all your life 

I would only say that as long as they still see each other at work, the chances of him breaking away diminishes greatly. Even just seeing her will bring back the memories and he will desire that again. He’s already trying to move backwards and be with her in spite of hearing your feelings on the matter.

So either you are softballing your language and he doesn’t really understand the seriousness of this, or he’s still hooked on the endorphins and is putting her feelings ahead of yours.

I hope the best for you but brace yourself. He hasn’t cut her off cleanly after hearing your pain. 🚩


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Why do t you go with ? He shouldn’t be with 5 women alone.


Yeah that's what i plan to do now. Before all these suspicions started i didn't care much about it cause i always had something "better" to do and never felt i needed to monitor anything. Most of the time either i have some work related thing to do or when i don't work i prefer staying at home and doing board games or reading with the kids. Seeing it now i realize that i have been a little too much in a routine life when maybe he was seeking for more fun and attention :-( But it still doesn't justify that he violated some boundaries with that woman.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Has he invited you along? How often does he hang out with you ax a family?


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You’re taking a bit softer approach then I would take, but it is after all your life
> 
> I would only say that as long as they still see each other at work, the chances of him breaking away diminishes greatly. Even just seeing her will bring back the memories and he will desire that again. He’s already trying to move backwards and be with her in spite of hearing your feelings on the matter.
> 
> ...


Yes i am and i am conscious of it 😓. Two times he said he will cut completely his ties with her and the group and asked me to give him one week to cut all activities they had in common. I couldn't have the heart to say ok. We agreed to do it in two steps. First he distances her and puts her back to her normal colleague place. He will also be transparent as to how she interacts with him. And on my side i am more present in their events.
We give it a couple a weeks/month. If he still doesn't make a real progress and/or if it keeps making me unhappy he cuts all ties with all of them.
Hoping my soft method will work and we put this behind us in no time. Wish me luck!


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Has he invited you along? How often does he hang out with you ax a family?


He used to but then he stopped at some point. According to him it's because instead of asking and i say no all the time, he assumed that i know i am welcome when i want so he just stopped offering. I have to admit that i didn't even notice he stopped asking me to come along until the talk we had about him being unhappy and i found out about his relationship with this lady.

The times i participate is when it was organized at our place or when there is something special (his birthday or something). I am trying to change that now.

As a family we always hang out together on weekends, day time. On evenning, if he's not on his weekly get together with his friends, we eat and hang out together.
On school days it's more rush so after dinner kids go to bed and we (him and i) used to be physically together but each doing our own thing (reading, working, video etcc...). We are trying to stop that now and do real activities together when we are just the two of us.... progress is there but the tension that is created due to the lady is making it irregular.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> Yes i am and i am conscious of it 😓. Two times he said he will cut completely his ties with her and the group and asked me to give him one week to cut all activities they had in common. I couldn't have the heart to say ok. We agreed to do it in two steps. First he distances her and puts her back to her normal colleague place. He will also be transparent as to how she interacts with him. And on my side i am more present in their events.
> We give it a couple a weeks/month. If he still doesn't make a real progress and/or if it keeps making me unhappy he cuts all ties with all of them.
> Hoping my soft method will work and we put this behind us in no time. Wish me luck!


Couple of months? Are you for real? Who’s this we? He should do it now. There’s more going on here.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

It seems you’re stopping short ic using the word affair. I would love to be wrong. The thing is, cutting off time with coworkers isn’t hard. It’s really not. The push back and resistance means they have a thing. And he thinks you’re ok with it and he’s entitled to it. He is not making you his priority. He’s putting you 2nd and expects you to be grateful for the attention he gives you. That sucks.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

He should not be seeing coworkers every week socially


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

@snowbum thanks for your inputs but we don't have the same vision on some aspects. It's ok we can't agree on everything with everyone.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophiadeb said:


> No but the group is 5 women 3 men. So if the other two men don't show up he ends up the only guy with the women. Which bothers me 😓. That is what i shared it two days ago


I think it would bother me if my husband were hanging out with women on a consistent basis, in that it sends a message to those women that his home life must not be all that great. Whether it is or isn't, isn't the issue...it's the message that it sends. It just isn't a good look no matter what excuses we make for people we love, for married people to be hanging out socially without their spouse, with others of the opposite sex. It's one thing if it's a work function, a business trip, etc...but to want to spend time away from the family on a consistent basis, would tell me that this is what my husband _prefers_.

Where we spend our time and money, is what matters to us. If I kept hanging out with other men while my husband sits at home, I'd imagine he'd be divorcing me before long. It's just not a good look. 

Be strong, and don't give up your values for a situation that doesn't edify your marriage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> would tell me that this is what my husband _prefers_.


I would be asking myself: why is he doing it? To me, it's a sign that the marriage isn't working and/or is dying.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> I would be asking myself: why is he doing it? To me, it's a sign that the marriage isn't working and/or is dying.


I'd be asking myself that, too...but having emotional affairs, or developing inappropriate ''friendships,'' won't solve what's wrong with the marriage. If I felt there was something very wrong with my marriage, I'd try to work it out directly with my husband, not start spending less time with him, and more with other men. 

I don't think that's the case with the OP's situation, though. Her husband sounds like he just likes the attention, and ego boost and perhaps he has been developing feelings for this ''friend'' because of all the time they've been spending together.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

A married man having a standing weekly date with women is not committed to you


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> I'd be asking myself that, too...but having emotional affairs, or developing inappropriate ''friendships,'' won't solve what's wrong with the marriage. If I felt there was something very wrong with my marriage, I'd try to work it out directly with my husband, not start spending less time with him, and more with other men.
> 
> I don't think that's the case with the OP's situation, though. Her husband sounds like he just likes the attention, and ego boost and perhaps he has been developing feelings for this ''friend'' because of all the time they've been spending together.


I'm not trying to justify the husband here, but we don't really know if he tried or not, and then gave up. From what the OP says, that's not the case, but I would love to hear his side of the story. Especially when I read things like "We have already had more or less severe crises in our 17 years together, and we came back from each of them"... _what are these crises?_


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> I think it would bother me if my husband were hanging out with women on a consistent basis, in that it sends a message to those women that his home life must not be all that great. Whether it is or isn't, isn't the issue...it's the message that it sends. It just isn't a good look no matter what excuses we make for people we love, for married people to be hanging out socially without their spouse, with others of the opposite sex. It's one thing if it's a work function, a business trip, etc...but to want to spend time away from the family on a consistent basis, would tell me that this is what my husband _prefers_.
> 
> Where we spend our time and money, is what matters to us. If I kept hanging out with other men while my husband sits at home, I'd imagine he'd be divorcing me before long. It's just not a good look.
> 
> Be strong, and don't give up your values for a situation that doesn't edify your marriage.


Thank you. My marriage needs some work ;-)


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

The way he was discussing YOUR marriage with her is wrong.
If he wants to discuss your marriage - it should only be with YOU.
And as soon as the OW started discussing HER marriage with him - that is when the OW crossed the line - marriage issues should only be discussed with the person you are married to.

his answer should be “you should only discuss this with the person you are married to”. That statement lets her know she is out of line.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Talking sexually and being in a car for 2 hours at night seems like sec was had.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

snowbum said:


> It seems you’re stopping short ic using the word affair. I would love to be wrong. The thing is, cutting off time with coworkers isn’t hard. It’s really not. The push back and resistance means they have a thing. And he thinks you’re ok with it and he’s entitled to it. He is not making you his priority. He’s putting you 2nd and expects you to be grateful for the attention he gives you. That sucks.


I agree. His feelings that started developing is what lead to him telling you he wasn’t happy with you initially. That was because HIS feelings changed from becoming way too close to HER - his OW. So do not think you need to be responsible for his behavior. It’s HIS to change since he was the one being inappropriate.

He became closer to her and distance was created between you and him. It’s also his job to change this FOR you.
He has disrespected and disregarded you. That’s not being a good husband.
Call it what it is - crappy behavior for a husband and definitely an affair. Especially since he allowed it to get to the point where he was developing enough feelings for her that he started thinking of you as the person he wasn’t happy with. That alone would make me angry.

don’t be surprised when you learn they have had sex. Most men wouldn’t spend hours and hours with any gal if they didn’t get their needs met.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> don’t be surprised when you learn they have had sex. Most men wouldn’t spend hours and hours with any gal if they didn’t get their needs met.


I am 200% sure no physical thing is involved. Not even touching let alone sleeping together. I came to this thread because i was unhappy of the soon to be a full blown EA he was developing with this lady and wanted to have your advises to cut it short before it's too late. Every single thing that made me uncomfortable and he did with her i knew about it less than 24h after it happenned. I might be a busy woman but i have a pretty developed radar and although he has his flaws, and trespassed boundaries this time, i know the man i married. He is not most men and his first tentative to be like most men is currently under close management 😉. 

I have been putting off this statement to not sound defensive because after all i came here to seek for help.

I heared your insights, comments, advises and now i made up my mind how to handle this based on my values and who i have in hand. I am hopefull this will work for us. If not i will move to plan B. My family is worth giving a chance to get up from this slippery slop he put us into without causing a further damage. This is not about ego for me. It's about the hapiness of the people i promised i will give my life for.

So i am mad at him and felt hurt? Yes.
Did he go over board? Yes!
Did he have an EA? Yes, early stage.
Is he in love with her? No.
Did he sleep with her? No.
Did he apologize? Yes.
Did he offer to cut complete ties with her? Yes.
Did i accept? No.
Do i have my reasons? Yes.
Does he put our marriage before anything? yes.
Does he have a good way showing it? Not always.
Do i think i am making the right decision? Not 100% but what doesn't kill will make me stronger. Even if i may be wrong, i prefer to start slow and revise gradually instead of taking drastic decisions and regret later with "what ifs". Again, too much is at stake, this is not just about ego.

Thank you all so much for your support. I will be back in a couple of weeks/month to give you updates. It will help the next one in my shoes to have insights that will help her/him make her/his own decisions.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Good luck , I'm sure all will work out !
Jimi


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

It’s really eccentric that an older (heterosexual?) male hangs with the girls. What do women see in a man like that? 

Sounds like the other two men find it weird and often cancel… leaving your man out with 5 women. Plus you if you wanted to go. 

I’d be declining a dinner where my husband hangs with 5 ladies too. 

Sorry, it’s weird to me. Eccentric, yes. 

I’m not sure if you’ve answered this, but has he ever had good relationships with men? Close friendships where he goes fishing or something? Watches sport? 

I think your problems are so much deeper than whether he is having an EA. 

Any hormonal issues at his end? Other behavioural issues? 

It’s such feminine behaviour and I don’t buy the initial cover of him wanting to appear like a player. Geez most men aren’t into girls shopping trips let alone constant female talk.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Sophiadeb said:


> I have been putting off this statement to not sound defensive because after all i came here to seek for help.
> 
> I heared your insights, comments, advises and now i made up my mind how to handle this based on my values and who i have in hand. I am hopefull this will work for us. If not i will move to plan B. My family is worth giving a chance to get up from this slippery slop he put us into without causing a further damage. This is not about ego for me. It's about the hapiness of the people i promised i will give my life for.
> 
> ...


With this information, if it is your desire to try for a reconciliation (and it is all up to you), it looks like you might have a reasonable chance to do so. As posters like @No Longer Lonely Husband and @Affaircare have shown, it is possible even to recover from a physical affair. The determining factor, I think, in your case will be the underlying character and willingness of your husband. We can't really tell that from any posts.

I hope you will indeed post follow ups in the future. Please give us an update, because whether you succeed or fail, your experience will be instructive for future posters who may end up in your situation. And I think that posters learning from other posters' experiences is the greatest strength of this board.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Wolfman1968 said:


> With this information, if it is your desire to try for a reconciliation (and it is all up to you), it looks like you might have a reasonable chance to do so. As posters like @No Longer Lonely Husband and @Affaircare have shown, it is possible even to recover from a physical affair. The determining factor, I think, in your case will be the underlying character and willingness of your husband. We can't really tell that from any posts.
> 
> I hope you will indeed post follow ups in the future. Please give us an update, because whether you succeed or fail, your experience will be instructive for future posters who may end up in your situation. And I think that posters learning from other posters' experiences is the greatest strength of this board.


Of course. I will definitely come back with an update whatever the outcome. Thank you


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> It’s really eccentric that an older (heterosexual?) male hangs with the girls. What do women see in a man like that?
> 
> Sounds like the other two men find it weird and often cancel… leaving your man out with 5 women. Plus you if you wanted to go.
> 
> ...


No worries in regards to hormonal or masculanity issues  

The discussion is going a bit off topic in my sense so i will not answer specificly to your questions. I am just adding this answer to cut short to any further debates on the topic because this is way out of line for what i have come to seek here. If i have learned one thing discussing on this platform is that boundaries have to be expressed clearly and we can't assume the same boundaries apply to everyone. 

So here i am clarifying the boundaries of this thread : anything that is not directly related to the EA with this specific woman i came to discuss here are off limits. And that includes, our initimate life, his masculanity, my feminity. I have been answering other questions that were a bit off topic hoping it will help determine better how to approach the issue in hand but now i see that it will never end if i don't put an end to it. It is specifically annoying when it starts to become about judging people and not analysing the situation. So please stop from further engaging in this conversation if you can't respect this rule and stop being judgmental. 

I would really like to keep this thread open to update the community that has supported me when i needed answers because i believe it will be a lived learning experience for others. But if this thread is making me cringe more than it's helping i will have to either delete it or if i can't i will just close my account and move to another place.

Thank you in advance for your respectful engagement


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> Good luck , I'm sure all will work out !
> Jimi


Thanks @Jimi007 , i hope so too!! Genuine positive intentions tend to mostly work out from experience!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sophiadeb said:


> anything that is not directly related to the EA with this specific woman i came to discuss here are off limits.


Fair enough... but it's like asking your mechanic to fix your car telling him it's just making a funny noise.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Reading through all of this, it seems that your H is addicted to this group of friends. The fact that he would even ask to go out with this group of 3 women (including her) right in the middle of all of this turmoil shows me that he literally is addicted. It's just terrible judgement overall.

Anyone in a normal setting would just cool it for awhile, or have his spouse go with the next couple of times.

Seems to me this group is WAY too close - a bunch of people attached to other SO's but still going out like they are in college.

Your H and his friends need to grow the F up.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

As for the EA, et al....seems this has been relatively harmless so far, but that it needs to be dealt with now before it's too far gone. And OP, looks like you are doing a good job of that. He knows now that's it's inappropriate and that he needs to step back.

This woman (and the whole group) gives your H dopamine and that is dangerous. He needs to drastically reduce his time talking/texting/going out with them to level set his life. Going out to 3am on a regular basis with a wife/kids at home is a toxic lifestyle. Then all throughout the day with texts, etc. He's way too dependent on them.

Lesson here is that he needs to realize he's a husband and parent now, not a college student partying with friends. And he has to act like it and cut back, big time.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

@Gabriel : you are right. this group's dynamic is unhealthy and anti-family! I will try to detach him from them smoothly and with wisdom !


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It’s great that you want to have him detach from a group that isn’t enhancing your marital relationship.
Do you think your husband is of the same mindset?


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> It’s great that you want to have him detach from a group that isn’t enhancing your marital relationship.
> Do you think your husband is of the same mindset?


Not sure he is totally in that mindset for now.

In regards to the specific women in the group i have a problem with, the mindset in now clear and the process has started to cut the "special" ties. Same for hanging out with the group when only the women are available. The boundaries has been cleared between him and I, and the message has also been transmitted to her (as she is the one who mostly initiates the group's get togethers). So far, that is going in the right directions.

So in regards to the group, i am going to approach it in a smoother manner. Something that doens't involve nagging day in day out or straight out forbidding it like i did for the women-only dinners or driving her home or any of those things that involved fully unethical behaviors. I am planning to try to figure out precisely why he likes going out with them that much and work on our marriage and family dynamics to make him want to be less and less with them. It doesn't bother me he has friends to hang out with, but the dependancy described by @Gabriel is what i see as a problem and what i want to solve slowly. It will probably take more time this way but i am looking into a sustainable approach.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

What do you feel his mindset is now (currently)?


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> What do you feel his mindset is now (currently)?


Not one that thinks this group dynamic is a problem by itself


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Seems like he knows you have an issue with it but he doesn’t or doesn’t want to stop.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

What would you think of someone who told you: 
My husband sits in cars with a woman for hoyes
My husband drives a drunk woman homw
My husband goes out on weekly dates with women
My husband texts women at night

Wikis you be concerned if the friend said the husband doesn’t want to change?

he’s not family friendly right now


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> What would you think of someone who told you:
> My husband sits in cars with a woman for hoyes
> My husband drives a drunk woman homw
> My husband goes out on weekly dates with women
> ...


We have estabilished a while ago that those behaviors are abnormal indeed. I came to this platform precisely because of these strange behaviors that i wanted to stop 🙅‍♀️🙅‍♀️🙅‍♀️🙅‍♀️
Why do you say i don't want him to change?

My husband sits in cars with a woman for hoyes ==> Already stopped
My husband drives a drunk woman homw ==> Already stopped
My husband goes out on weekly dates with women ==> Already stopped with women only. So he doesn't go out unless there are other men 
My husband texts women at night ==> Already stopped


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

You asked him and he’s not ready. So what’s the next step?


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> You asked him and he’s not ready. So what’s the next step?


Which part? I never asked him to stop seeing his entire group of friends. He is actually the one who suggested it because he saw i was unhappy. I didn't accept it because i think preventing a person to see his friends is cruel. So we established what should be absolutely stopped and what can continue. So to summarize using the list you made above:
My husband sits in cars with a woman for hoyes ==> Already stopped
My husband drives a drunk woman homw ==> Already stopped
My husband goes out on weekly dates with women ==> Already stopped with women only. So he doesn't go out unless there are other men
My husband texts women at night ==> Already stopped 

Now if you are refereing to the couple of recent posts about what we were discussing with @Gabriel : the group of friends he belongs to is not family-life friendly. so instead of forbidding him to see them all at once i have decided to progressively pull him out of his dependency on them.

Hope this clarifies your confusion.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

@Sophiadeb I'm glad to hear you have clarity on the steps ahead and are taking those steps with some measure of confidence.

There are a lot of experiences on this board that vary widely around the response to infidelity as you've seen. Everybody has an opinion!

I hope your chosen path is the right one but it's your choice to make regardless and TAM will be here to celebrate or mourn with you after.

I guess the point of this comment is to let you know that there is a (mostly) silent group of people like myself reading and pulling for you, whatever the outcome.

Best of luck to you.


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> @Sophiadeb I'm glad to hear you have clarity on the steps ahead and are taking those steps with some measure of confidence.
> 
> There are a lot of experiences on this board that vary widely around the response to infidelity as you've seen. Everybody has an opinion!
> 
> ...


Thank you! I am really grateful for this platform and all of you guys who contributed quite promptly and who helped me clear my head!! I was so confused when i came here two weeks ago and now i am confident of the steps ahead! I am not naive to think that all will roll without bumps so i will keep my eyes open and be ready to be disappointed a few times. I have also made my peace with the role i have played in getting us where we are today. 

So i will keep my eyes open and execute my plan with patience, empathy and kindness. After all this is a marriage that created 3 beautiful children that deserve that their mom puts her ego aside and fights for what they cherish most, their family. I am glad i saw things before they got out of hand and trespassed the limit that would have led directly to divorce. 

Thank you so much for the best wishes and for everything else!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Glad you've come to some type of resolution. Hopefully, your husband will realize all that he has in the marriage and family, and make some lasting changes. Be careful not to blame yourself. In reading between the lines, it sounds like you're starting to wonder if he preferred hanging out with her and them more than you, because you didn't make his homelife fun enough, or interesting enough. If there are lulls in your marriage, he has to stay close to you through them, not seek other women to console him.

He spent a fraction of the time with that one woman, so of course, she will appear refreshing. I think we all should strive in our marriages to be interesting to our spouses, but you can't compare what he was getting out of that ''friendship'' and what you both have.

So, be careful to not take on the idea that it's your job to make sure he doesn't want to hang out with other women. Be the best you, you can be, regardless of the outcome on his part. If he ends up turning back to her or another woman in the future, know that it's about his character, and not you. I see spouses on here start to blame themselves for why their spouses stray, and there are always other options available to them, besides that. Your husband should learn to turn to you for what he needs, not other women. Now, if you were to ignore his needs, then your marriage has other issues - but, you know what I mean?

I wish you the best in your newfound journey. And of course, a clover for good luck. 🍀😄


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## Sophiadeb (1 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Glad you've come to some type of resolution. Hopefully, your husband will realize all that he has in the marriage and family, and make some lasting changes. Be careful not to blame yourself. In reading between the lines, it sounds like you're starting to wonder if he preferred hanging out with her and them more than you, because you didn't make his homelife fun enough, or interesting enough. If there are lulls in your marriage, he has to stay close to you through them, not seek other women to console him.
> 
> He spent a fraction of the time with that one woman, so of course, she will appear refreshing. I think we all should strive in our marriages to be interesting to our spouses, but you can't compare what he was getting out of that ''friendship'' and what you both have.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your wisdom  Dully noted!


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## JLCP (Aug 18, 2021)

Sophiadeb said:


> He says there is nothing to break off as they are just friends. After i listed to him all the things he could and could not do with a friend, he says that they only things he does with her are those that i described as "doable" with a friend. The only thing that he agreed to not doing anymore is to take her to her home late in the night unless there is absolutely no choice and in case he does he will call me ahead and tell me so that i know where he is exactly and how long he stays there. How to go forward with such a behavior?


Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should he be taking another woman home from a bar. If nothing else, you should put your foot down about the ride situation. The expectation should be that before she has another drink, that she make arrangements for a ride from someone else or schedule an Uber ride at a certain time. She is an adult and she should make her own transportation arrangements that don't include your husband. And, your husband should tell her that she needs to make her own arrangements from now and he can't give her rides because he wants to save his marriage.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

JLCP said:


> Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should he be taking another woman home from a bar. If nothing else, you should put your foot down about the ride situation. The expectation should be that before she has another drink, that she make arrangements for a ride from someone else or schedule an Uber ride at a certain time. She is an adult and she should make her own transportation arrangements that don't include your husband. And, your husband should tell her that she needs to make her own arrangements from now and he can't give her rides because he wants to save his marriage.


I agree with this 100%. OP, what is the deal with this woman's husband? Honestly, your husband's actions are putting himself at risk with you, but also with this woman's husband. If the AP's husband starts to get suspicious things could go south very quickly, and could become dangerous for your husband. 

If I were you I would be firm about what is not okay, you are really not holding him accountable with your "rules" and are letting him continue with this inappropriate behavior that could put not only your marriage at risk, but his safety as well.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

JLCP said:


> Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should he be taking another woman home from a bar. If nothing else, you should put your foot down about the ride situation. The expectation should be that before she has another drink, that she make arrangements for a ride from someone else or schedule an Uber ride at a certain time. She is an adult and she should make her own transportation arrangements that don't include your husband. And, your husband should tell her that she needs to make her own arrangements from now and he can't give her rides because he wants to save his marriage.


Seems like OP already said this was handled going forward.

But I agree. There was a claim more than once that "Uber was not safe" for this woman. Well, my 22 year old daughter has taken several Ubers all over the city of Chicago by herself after midnight. Guarantee you that's got more risk than wherever they are at. While I get the general safety concern.....why put yourself in that situation over and over? Oh, I know, because the H was willingly doing it. Take that away and I bet she either 1) stops staying out that late drinking, or 2) takes the damn Uber


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

He never HAS to drive her home. There’s always an option not to. If he were t there she’d figure it out. How does she treat you?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

The OW has a choice. She could choose not to drink so much and take an Uber home. 
or her husband could pick her up. Or another woman could drop her at home.
Why can’t she drive herself and be a responsible drinker (having one drink)?
Seems like her drinking problem has become everyone else’s responsibility except hers - where it belongs.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

@Sophiadeb ...even though you have clearly told everyone on this thread the issue and where you are at with it. A plan in place , some will continue to pick at the scab...

Unfortunately, sometimes it's a cancer on TAM...That why many the come for advice leave. 

You don't have to continue to explain yourself, you've done it several times

Jimi


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## JLCP (Aug 18, 2021)

It would be nice if the comments would go in order, with each reply being linked in order with the progression of the conversation. I tend to read through these posts in order they are received and post as I go along. I don't always have time to read through every comment on a post before I post. Also, sometimes I get an idea and want to add it before I forget it after reading through 30 more posts. For example, if the comments were organized like an outline, it would be easier for this poster to see that the comment I made was in response to an earlier post she made and she could just move on if she felt the issue was already addressed. I know I revisit my posts and try to get people's opinions on a particular issue and have a hard time limiting the responses to just those I want to review on the one issue. Not sure if I explained this that well, but I think it would be easier to compartmentalize responses if the responses were posted in outline form.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> The OW has a choice. She could choose not to drink so much and take an Uber home.
> or her husband could pick her up. Or another woman could drop her at home.
> Why can’t she drive herself and be a responsible drinker (having one drink)?
> Seems like her drinking problem has become everyone else’s responsibility except hers - where it belongs.


Exactly. This woman has an alcohol problem, not to mention terrible boundaries.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

JLCP said:


> It would be nice if the comments would go in order, with each reply being linked in order with the progression of the conversation. I tend to read through these posts in order they are received and post as I go along. I don't always have time to read through every comment on a post before I post. Also, sometimes I get an idea and want to add it before I forget it after reading through 30 more posts. For example, if the comments were organized like an outline, it would be easier for this poster to see that the comment I made was in response to an earlier post she made and she could just move on if she felt the issue was already addressed. I know I revisit my posts and try to get people's opinions on a particular issue and have a hard time limiting the responses to just those I want to review on the one issue. Not sure if I explained this that well, but I think it would be easier to compartmentalize responses if the responses were posted in outline form.


You can use the excellent multi-quote feature to show what you are responding to and you can do multiple in one post. The layout you suggest fragment the thread greatly taking away from the big help picture.


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