# What does this mean? How do I react? Help me decode our conversations (LONG)!



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

It's a long story, I have posts in "Considering separation" and "Ladies' Lounge". But basically, we are in a rut for various reasons after 10 years of marriage, worked hard to make it better and it was great for a few weeks. Our marriage was always SO easy, no fighting, just some growing apart due to complacency. Then, he went out of town, I was insecure, he came back, and we fell apart. Lots of fighting and tears and conversations. He's discouraged. I'm feeling like I'm being shut out. He is afraid to try to work on us because he feels like he jumped in with both feet before and then it blew up in his face. This conversation took place after I had given him a letter on Tuesday night basically saying that things aren't going to get better if he isn't willing to throw me some breadcrumbs. That I was starving for affection or some sign that he wanted to work things out. He told me he'd respond, but 2 days went by and he hadn't. So I said something to him before work, which blew up! He was off, didn't text or call me all day. I came home, got into another big argument where I got angry and actually yelled at him to either be all in or all out. No talking for the rest of the night, I go to bed. Next morning I say goodbye and leave (he was still in bed). Then I started texting him after I left.

(In texts, he basically apologizes, and says that he feels like I hate him, he's an evil person, he doesn't meet my needs or expectations, he can't win so he quit trying, but that he loves me and cares about me so much and this hurts like hell.)

Me: I don't know how to act or what to say. I'm so heartbroken and sad. I don't understand what's happening. I do love you. Maybe too much. Guess I have to let go.

H: I am heartbroken too, and even though you don't think I do, I do love you.

Me: Why is this so hard? Why can't I stop the tears? Why can't we make this work? Why don't you want to try? Why am I so pathetic?

H: I wish I knew why it's so hard, why I feel so defeated. I don't think ur pathetic. I'm sorry this is happening.

Me: I'm sorry I make you feel defeated. I feel hopeless. I just keep waiting for some sign from you that you want our marriage to work. That you want to keep me. I'm sorry. 

(No response for a bit, so I told him I had to go since I'm a teacher and this was before school, so I couldn't continue. He responded later that he got busy and it takes a bit to respond when he gets busy at work. Then at lunch I texted a random comment about not being able to get a signal on my phone and he just replied something silly. Then an hour later he told me how busy it was at work.)

Me: I know you were busy this morning and couldn't respond to what I wrote, but are you going to? (No response for over an hour, so I texted "???")

H: I'm slammed busy. Yes I will respond. I can't get caught up enough to think straight. Sorry.

He never responded. Called me at like 5 to see if we were home yet. Small talk. Came home and I asked if he cared if I went out (which I never do, and he encourages me to do so I'm not moping around here). I came home at midnight and he was not so chipper. It was way too uncomfortable so I went to bed. He came in and pecked me on the head and said goodnight. I texted him.

Me: Why can't I have you?

H: What are you talking about?

Me: I just mean in general. I feel like ur not mine and im not yours. I want and need you but I can't have you.

H: I'm sorry we are where we are.  I never wanted us to be here.

Me: Where are we? I just don't know. Ur pulling away from me.

H: I'm sorry. It's not intentional.

Me: You didn't answer me.

H: What am I answering?

Me: Where are we? What is this?

H: I can't answer something I have no answer to. I am mentally and emotionally drained as I'm sure you are too.

Me: So you're saying you don't know where we are? I need you to lean on. I'm not strong enough. I feel alone and confused.

H: I feel alone and confused too. And this is all killing me. I don't know where we are. All I can do is say I'm sorry we are here, that "I'm not who you thought I was". (I had said this to him the night before in reference to him having no fight in him. I said, "If you are willing to give up this easily because the fairy tale didn't continue past 10 years, then you aren't who I thought you were")

Me: It's killing me too. Why aren't you who I thought you were?

H: You said it, not me. I'm just apologizing for what you see me as. I know it's killing you too. That's what makes it hurt even more. I don't hate you.

Me: I don't have you. And you took it the wrong way. I am so powerless and it hurts. You're shutting me out and I hate it. I ruined any chance we had because I couldn't just settle.

H: You didn't ruin anything. Stop thinking that please.

Me: But I did. I pushed when you weren't ready and I pushed you away by making you feel defeated and a failure unintentionally. Now it's painful to be in the same room.

H: I don't blame or have any resentment towards you. Please understand that. I blame myself for being here to begin with I just can't fight anymore.

Me: I just want you to want us to be married. Take a breather. No serious talk or game playing. Hold my hand when I reach and hug me when I open my arms.

H: So then we act and things feel good for a copule days and we are right back here. I can't do this anymore. It's ****ing up my mind/heart and yours as well.

Me: So your done with being married to me? You could at least say it to my face.

H: I didn't say that. Jesus Christ, my mind is a jumbled mess, I am emotionally shredded, and I don't operate the way you do.

Me: How do I operate? On faith? Just say what you mean. We can't try to act normal because then we'll fight? But the problem is there's no change? No plan. No help. I'm sorry.

H: You want answers and plans and I have nothing right now. You jumped all over my sh*t yesterday about "floating" around yet you just asked to do it. I'm sorry if I am lacking in the faith dept., if I don't seem upbeat and positive, this has taken a toll on me as I'm sure it has on you. I can't apologize enough.

Me: I'm a wreck. I can't read you at all. Don't know where I or we stand. I'm asking too much to have you share how you feel, what you're thinking, and how my actions affect you.

H: I'm a wreck too, trust me, but you know me and I'm gonna put on my tough guy face, deal the way I deal, and unfortunately I am hurting you along the way.

Me: How is that dealing? Lean on me that's why I'm here. I love & accept you unconditionally regardless of how it feels. We're supposed to be each other's constants. (reference to our vows)

H: A lot of things have been said by both of us, things I never thought we would go through. It sucks, it hurts, and it's confusing.

Me: I know things have been said in anger. Tell me what to do. How can I help you heal? How should I act? Standoffish? Indifferent? Warm? Just stay out of your way?

H: I don't know. None of those things help you and honestly I don't know what I need or want right now. I am lost. I hate hurting you and I hate hurting. Fighting and yelling and screaming and crying in front of the kids is killing me, I can't stand it, because it's not fair to them.

Me: Do we need to be apart for a few days? Nothing is comfortable. I've f'd up your world and destroyed us. Tension's in the air and it sucks. I just want comfort.

H: Please stop saying you've f'd my world up, you are not to blame. I truly do not hate you in any way shape or form. I hate seeing you in pain and knowing I am the cause of it, knowing we are here and going through this, seeing the pain and hurt in your eyes.

Me: You hate my pain and resent that I can't be magically happy. I jus need to be held and feel ur love. No words required. I can't get why we feel so disconnected. And I really don't get why you won't give marriage counseling one try. I feel like I'm going to explode. I need help. You need help. I can't just let you go and give up.

H: I don't resent anything. I don't expect you to be magically happy. We are disconnected and it sucks. I am not out to hurt you. No mc because I have my own preconceived notions on that, right or wrong, and we went to one and that was a disaster years ago. Put a real bad taste in my mouth, I can't get rid of it.

Me: Just a try. If it isn't good then don't go again. I don't think we can do this alone. I need someone to lean on. I feel very mentally unhealthy and unstable.

H: As do I. If you need to see someone or talk to someone please do. You need to look out for you before anyone else. Stop worrying about me and worry about you.

Me: I care more about you than me. We are in this together. You need help too. I'm afraid one of us is going to lean on the wrong person. I don't mean it THAT way. I need you.

H: I understand you care about me as I do about you, I worry about you and I want you to to talk to someone, I want to look out for you.


So, what do I do? A 180 and act like I'm fine? Do we separate? Take a weekend off? I'm sort of torn between backing off and doing nothing (which makes it hard to stop the tears from flowing) and trying my hardest to make him feel loved by leaving him notes saying why I love him and need him. I'm desperate and sick of being the only one with any hope. He's pessimistic by nature, and it sucks. He could go stay with his parents. His mom knows most of what's going on since I've told her. But he literally talks to no one about all of this. If you made it this far, I owe you a batch of cookies. It's a novel. And I fell asleep on the last text, so I'm sure you're :sleeping: by now.


----------



## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Gah! LNL, can I ask WHY you jumped on him about not responding to the letter after two days? Honestly, that sounds like you are watching him like a hawk and timing how fast he responds to you. That shouldn't be the purpose of the letter. The letter is to get out what you want to say and give the other person time to think, analyze, and respond. If it takes two weeks, it takes two weeks.

All I can really pick out of the texts is that you want answers RIGHT NOW. You want him to change RIGHT NOW. I don't think its going to work. The only thing you can control is your behavior and your part in the marriage. What are your guys' love languages??


----------



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DawnD said:


> Gah! LNL, can I ask WHY you jumped on him about not responding to the letter after two days? Honestly, that sounds like you are watching him like a hawk and timing how fast he responds to you. That shouldn't be the purpose of the letter. The letter is to get out what you want to say and give the other person time to think, analyze, and respond. If it takes two weeks, it takes two weeks.
> 
> All I can really pick out of the texts is that you want answers RIGHT NOW. You want him to change RIGHT NOW. I don't think its going to work. The only thing you can control is your behavior and your part in the marriage. What are your guys' love languages??


I know I know! Thank you for being honest with me.  I regretted it. I was upset because he stays up for 4 hours after I go to bed, so he'd had 2 nights. And that's how he responded, saying he feels like I always have a stopwatch going. Character flaw, I know. But what do I do? Just back off? How? 

My love language is a tie between quality time and physical touch. He is (unfortunately) words of affirmation. Which I know all this is the opposite of affirmation. That's why I was thinking of leaving love notes and just trying to let him know in little ways that I love him since my words mean nothing.


----------



## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

LonelyNLost said:


> I know I know! Thank you for being honest with me.  I regretted it. I was upset because he stays up for 4 hours after I go to bed, so he'd had 2 nights. And that's how he responded, saying he feels like I always have a stopwatch going. Character flaw, I know. But what do I do? Just back off? How?
> 
> My love language is a tie between quality time and physical touch. He is (unfortunately) words of affirmation. Which I know all this is the opposite of affirmation. That's why I was thinking of leaving love notes and just trying to let him know in little ways that I love him since my words mean nothing.


 Okay, so how about you guys sit down and agree to half an hour of snuggling every night before you go to bed to help ease some of your quality time needs? After that, I said this on another thread too, sit down and make a list of 5 things you want to do together, or to each other lol, in the next 30 days and then exchange lists. These need to be playful, but they don't all have to be sexual. I want us to 1, Watch a movie and snuggle 2. give you the best BJ of your life 3. Have you kiss every piece of my body 4., etc etc

Words of Affirmation happens to be my H's language too, so I have plenty of examples of that. The great thing about your situation is you can fulfill your need for physical touch and his need for WOA simultaneously. Should I delve further?


----------



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DawnD said:


> Okay, so how about you guys sit down and agree to half an hour of snuggling every night before you go to bed to help ease some of your quality time needs? After that, I said this on another thread too, sit down and make a list of 5 things you want to do together, or to each other lol, in the next 30 days and then exchange lists. These need to be playful, but they don't all have to be sexual. I want us to 1, Watch a movie and snuggle 2. give you the best BJ of your life 3. Have you kiss every piece of my body 4., etc etc
> 
> Words of Affirmation happens to be my H's language too, so I have plenty of examples of that. The great thing about your situation is you can fulfill your need for physical touch and his need for WOA simultaneously. Should I delve further?


I'd love to do that, but I don't think he's ready to give me that. All I can get is a peck on the head and I halfhearted "I love you". Before this latest setback, I had asked him for 20 minutes of just him and I on the porch, and we did for a couple nights and then there was another "fight". I keep telling him I need a hug, and he says he doesn't feel very affectionate. Before I left last night, I stood there, and he did give me a small hug, and I rested my head on his shoulder and sort of sniffed his neck, lol. He smiled and gave me this weird look. 

But the things you suggested are "moving forward" type things, and I don't think he is ready.  He fears quality time because of where the conversation might go. I can be seriously in tears losing it and he doesn't comfort me. We're stuck right now. Our sex life is fine, but it's of course not happening right now. It's the one area that is effortless, but of course sexual fulfillment is not one of his top needs. But he does need to feel wanted and loved, and my erratic behavior is not doing that for him. 

I could leave little notes saying, "I love you because ____________." and then see how he responds. I can't request anything right now. He needs lots of affirmation, and I can't find anything to affirm him for except for WHO he is.


----------



## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

LonelyNLost said:


> I'd love to do that, but I don't think he's ready to give me that. All I can get is a peck on the head and I halfhearted "I love you". Before this latest setback, I had asked him for 20 minutes of just him and I on the porch, and we did for a couple nights and then there was another "fight". I keep telling him I need a hug, and he says he doesn't feel very affectionate. Before I left last night, I stood there, and he did give me a small hug, and I rested my head on his shoulder and sort of sniffed his neck, lol. He smiled and gave me this weird look.
> 
> But the things you suggested are "moving forward" type things, and I don't think he is ready.  He fears quality time because of where the conversation might go. I can be seriously in tears losing it and he doesn't comfort me. We're stuck right now. Our sex life is fine, but it's of course not happening right now. It's the one area that is effortless, but of course sexual fulfillment is not one of his top needs. But he does need to feel wanted and loved, and my erratic behavior is not doing that for him.
> 
> I could leave little notes saying, "I love you because ____________." and then see how he responds. I can't request anything right now. He needs lots of affirmation, and I can't find anything to affirm him for except for WHO he is.


It isn't him shying away because of being around you, its because of the conversation! Okay! I get it. So maybe quality time should be you two playing a video game together, playing a board game, etc. try to have time with him without having deep conversations, because that is pushing him completely away right now. Make it known, hey, I really just want us to snuggle and watch this show for half an hour, can we just do that? No need to get into any deep talking, just be together for a bit.

I go about WOA completely differently. its how I perceive them at least. I sext my H, about how "big" he is and how I can't wait for him to come home, I touch his biceps and tell him how strong and sexy he is, run my hands down his stomach and comment how much the gym is paying off, etc, etc. It isn't always about the "I love you's" its about building the ego.


----------



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DawnD said:


> It isn't him shying away because of being around you, its because of the conversation! Okay! I get it. So maybe quality time should be you two playing a video game together, playing a board game, etc. try to have time with him without having deep conversations, because that is pushing him completely away right now. Make it known, hey, I really just want us to snuggle and watch this show for half an hour, can we just do that? No need to get into any deep talking, just be together for a bit.
> 
> I go about WOA completely differently. its how I perceive them at least. I sext my H, about how "big" he is and how I can't wait for him to come home, I touch his biceps and tell him how strong and sexy he is, run my hands down his stomach and comment how much the gym is paying off, etc, etc. It isn't always about the "I love you's" its about building the ego.


Thanks for your help, Dawn. Yes, I do need to build his ego, that's what he needs. He obviously doesn't feel love from me. I suggested we put in a DVD of "How I Met Your Mother" last night as I sat next to him on the couch, but he kind of said "whatever" and then kept flipping. I thought about maybe playing Wii or a board game. I'll work on some distractions. The problem is he's afraid to be with me because it's so tense, he's fearful of the conversation. He does ask me how my day was (several times) and small talk. But nothing fun. I might check with our neighbors and see if they are up for an adult fun night. When things were good a month ago, we went to their house (they live next door) and drank and played board games and it was a blast. Other people being around might make a safe zone for him. Wish me luck.


----------



## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks for your help, Dawn. Yes, I do need to build his ego, that's what he needs. He obviously doesn't feel love from me. I suggested we put in a DVD of "How I Met Your Mother" last night as I sat next to him on the couch, but he kind of said "whatever" and then kept flipping. I thought about maybe playing Wii or a board game. I'll work on some distractions. The problem is he's afraid to be with me because it's so tense, he's fearful of the conversation. He does ask me how my day was (several times) and small talk. But nothing fun. I might check with our neighbors and see if they are up for an adult fun night. When things were good a month ago, we went to their house (they live next door) and drank and played board games and it was a blast. Other people being around might make a safe zone for him. Wish me luck.


 Absolutely!! Have a board game night with neighbors and be sure that you walk up next to him at some point and whisper in his ear how sexy he is when he is relaxed and talking about fun stuff and how much it makes you want him 

At some point he learned that it isn't "safe" to be open with you , so now you just have to convince him that it is. I will admit that my H and I went through that as well, due to me. You don't recognize it until its too late most of the time, and then you spend a while rebuilding. But after you rebuild it can be wonderful!


----------

