# My wife wants to be alone forever



## Mr335

My wife and I have been together for the past 12 years and been married for the past 4 and a half. We have 2 daughters, a 1 year old and a 3 year old. Two weeks ago she informed me that she no longer loves me and has been going through the motions for the past 2 years.

Upon further discussion she told me that she wasn’t sure she ever loved me, at least not in that “romantic” way. She said she never realized it before but almost everything she has done in her life she has done because she thought it was what she was supposed to do. Marriage, kids, the big house… it’s not what she wants now and deep inside she thinks she never wanted it. She told me she relished her time alone and that she never misses me when I was not there.

She did say that she does love our kids and would never give them up but she feels she only had them because that just what people do. She said she hated her life and what she wanted was simple, to be alone. She said the only thing that would make her happy was to work (she loves her job) and at the end of the day to go home alone to her own small apartment. That’s all she wanted. To be alone.

She does want to spend time with our kids but she realizes now that was not what she was meant to do. She is a very loving mother and this is not a ploy to get away and leave them with me. Her life is not what she wanted it to be and she believes being alone, working her job and having no one to answer to is what she needs to be happy. 

When I heard all this, I was devastated. I believe we have the marriage that others look up to. From the outside looking in we have a perfect life; we both love our jobs and make a very good living, we have 2 great children and in public are very affectionate towards one another. At first I thought what she was telling me was all out of the blue but on reflection I did see the signs that were always there.

I have my good points and bad points just like anyone else.

The Good
-I am a moral person; very honest & trustworthy
-I am a good friend (I am always willing to help out a friend)
-I am a very attentive father. I take days off and pull the kids out of daycare to spend time with them, I make the vast majority of meals in the household and I change the diapers and put both the kids the majority of the time.
-I have been very supportive to my wife in one aspect in particular. She was sexually abused many years before we met and she had many issues. I encouraged her to seek professional help, which she did and after many years of ups and downs I stuck by her and today she is much, much better. She is till a little “scarred” but all in all a much more secure and stable person then when we first met.

The Bad
-I am stubborn. 
-Although I do make the majority of the meals and am very hands on with the kids, the things that are important to my wife, like cleaning the house, doing the laundry, etc… I am not so good at.
-Due to the nature of my work, my schedule does change from time to time. I do not always update my wife immediately with my schedule changes, which affects not only her but her parents that often help out by watching the kids.
-My wife’s work is important to her. She likes to talk about it. I often tune her out. As she puts it, with her as well as all my friends I only care about what interests me, namely the arts. (my profession)

The Ugly
-I love sex. My wife: not so much. It could be due to the sexual abuse in her past or could simply be a lower sex drive but I want it far more often than her. She has come a long way and opened up quite a bit sexually but I still push her. I mentioned that we are an affectionate couple in public but I can be a little too affectionate. Okay, I sometimes grope. As well, I am constantly making references to sex. It’s way too much and sometimes a bit inappropriate.
-As my wife has pointed out, I always want it to lead to sex. It’s never just a little kiss with me. It’s never just a back massage. I always want it to lead to sex. I never have and never would force myself on her but I do push her limits. When she is into it, the sex is really good, when she isn’t into it and I push well she isn’t into it and it’s not good. I need to remind myself that for whatever reason that she doesn’t want it as much as myself, especially considering the sexual abuse in her past, I need to respect that she cannot be sexual as often as I want her to be.

There is hope.

Even though she said that she isn’t happy and hasn’t been for a long time. Even though she says she no longer loves me and isn’t sure if she ever has. Even though the only way she feels she can ever be happy is by being alone with no one else in her life. Despite all this, she is willing to try and make it work, for the sake of the kids more than anything else. We mutually agreed to seek counseling and have our first appointment a week from now. When I say willing to work on it she has said for as long as 5 years! This does give me hope and in the past 2 weeks I have reflected on my past mistakes and what I/we need to do to get through this. I want to change for 2 reasons: To keep my wife in my life and have her fall back in love with me and because I want to be a better person. Here are a few of the changes I have made in the past 2 weeks:

I ask her how her day went. Ask about her job. I listen and care about what she is saying.

I am still affectionate with her but it is now a quick squeeze of the hand, a peck on the cheek, that sort of thing… I do not grope her in private or public. I do not talk about her body parts and how much I _adore_ them (a bad habit of mine) And I am extremely conscious _not_ to make her feel like a sexual object.

I give her space, or as much as I can. At first I was too attentive; something that I know will only make matters worse but I just couldn’t help myself. I would stroke or grab her hand, many kisses on the cheek, any excuse to hold or touch her… It was only annoying her and I could see that. I have since dialed that back and resist the urge to overcrowd her. I still continue with the small gestures of affection, enough to remind her that I love her but hopefully not so much as to make her feel smothered. This is one of the hardest things to do as my instinct is to hold her as tight as possible every moment I can.

I have made a great effort to do all those small things that are important to my wife. I have kept her apprise of any schedule changes, I make a solid effort to clean the house, I think about everything I do and how it affects her.

All in all, I feel great about the changes I have made so immediately in my life. I feel miserable about the situation and the fact that my wife may not be in my life forever but am hopeful in the knowledge that she is willing to work on it (up to 5 years!) I know that I can make and maintain the changes that will make me a better person and show her how important she is to me. I don’t know if it is enough to make her fall in love with me again or if she is truly meant to be alone. Whatever happens I will come out of this a better person.

Update
Things seem stable. There have been a few flare ups of “I hate my life” from my wife but I give her as much space as I can and our time together for the most part seems not too bad. It may be somewhat muted but it feels like we are re-building. I do my best to suppress the urge to talk and analyze the situation with her over and over again but to show her by my actions. I have made many small changes and am sticking with it. I do see her trying as well. Small gestures but enough to see that she is making an effort. 

We had a date last night. A movie followed by dinner. At the movie I resisted every urge to hold her hand. I reminded myself that she needs her space. At the beginning of the movie her body language told me that she did not want to touch her as she was tense and her body was turned in her seat away from me. It was hard but I did not reach out to her. About a half hour into the movie her body relaxed and she turned ever so slightly towards me. Another 15 minutes passed and she grabbed my hand. I looked over with a huge grin. She smiled back, shrugged her shoulders and said that “she was cold”. 

I don’t have to tell you how good that made me feel. At dinner after the movie things were nice. Tentative, but nice. She talked about her work. I listened. It felt a bit like it did when we were first dating. It started to feel really good.

In my mind I was thinking that things were on their way back to being normal. I will admit I got more than a little too self-confident. I started thinking she was already becoming attracted to me again. I even thought she might want to have sex tonight. Actually I was pretty darn certain she would want to have sex. This is more or less the scenario running through my head:

_We’ll get home, we’ll go to bed, things will get a little cozy, she will want to start kissing… and that will lead to her to want more... More being…sex. That is where the new-and-improved-emotionally-connected husband kicks in. The-NO-let’s-stop-and-work-on-rebuilding-our-intimacy-husband kicks in. _

Well that’s not exactly the way things panned out.

We got home. I got in bed and waited. Eventually my wife climbed into bed beside me and that’s when things didn’t go _exactly_ as planned. She wasn’t frantic to hold me, to kiss me, in fact her body was turned the other way…

I pulled up close behind her. I put my arms around her and touched her ever so lightly. Nothing sexual just enough to remind her that I was there and to awaken the desire that surely must be simmering in her.

Still nothing.

She wasn’t stiffening or pushing me away, she was... well she wasn’t doing anything. I knew she didn’t want to go straight to sleep. I mean she held my hand at the movie theatre! Clearly she was nervous and unsure if it was okay to be affectionate. I decided that a kiss on the cheek was all that was needed to show her. _Then_ she would be over me, and that’s when I would put on the brakes and tell her how important it was that we _wait_. Then she would surely see how much I had changed. How much I was willing to work on this. How I no longer saw her as a sexual object… So just a quick peck on the cheek…

Wrong thing to do. 

“What are you doing? I’m trying to sleep.” she yelped. 

I did my best to assure her that I kissed her because I thought she wanted me too. I insisted I did not expect or want it to lead to anything more than that. 

My first instinct was to turn my back to her, to leave the room, maybe even sleep on the couch… I stopped myself from over reacting and simply said: “I’m sorry”. I asked her if I could put my arms around her. At first she said no but a few minutes later she said she would snuggle and we fell to sleep in each others arms.

Things still feel pretty good. It has only been 2 weeks but it feels like we are on the mend or at the very least on the road to discovering what path we need to take. I pushed her too quickly. I know that and I know that I need to let her come to me when she is ready. The small affectionate gestures are enough to remind her of how I feel. She knows I still love her and she will be intimate when she is ready.

Writing and posting this has been extremely therapeutic to me. I post this in the hopes that others in a similar situation may benefit from hearing my story. I also welcome any words of encouragement or advice from other members of this site. I do not want to hear “She’s cheating on you man!” She is not. Her entire schedule is accounted for and there are no changes to raise any suspicions, there are no attempts at hiding her e-mails, texts, call history on her cel phone… and simply put, she wouldn’t cheat. Neither of us would. And no woman that was having an affair on her husband would be willing to stick around and try and make it work for up to 5 years.

There you have it. My story. Albeit a bit long-winded but it has felt _great_ to put it down to words. I’m not perfect. She’s not perfect. I am working on it. She is working on it. Will we stay together? I do not know but I am definitely what you would describe as an optimist and I have very high hopes!


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## 827Aug

Is she depressed?


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## Mr335

Sometimes I suppose... She says she has been pretending to be happy for several years. I would say she comes across more angry than depressed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## terrence4159

either that or maybe she like jeff foxworthy she is either riding another horse or has one cut from the heard with her saddle out. and this is her way of you divorcing her so she can go to the other guy and you look like the bad guy. just my .02 cents


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## Houstondad

It's very possible she fell out of love over time. I think she's built up anger and resentment for you. For example, you mentioned the sex and how whenever things started off innocent, it always led to sex. That was a biggie in my previous marriage. My EX would mention her discontent from time to time, but I was stubborn...and horny. And many times, I would caress her with no intentions of having sex and then suddenly...bam! It didn't help that she was very attractive too. 
There were other little things that built up too: sometimes not following through on the little things or a project.
I also did way too much in taking care of our family while she was depressed and withdrawn from the kids. I think she resented me for that as well.
People that are depressed think from a very irrational point of view. She only viewed the negative and ignored all the positives that were in our marriage. She ended up having an affair that destroyed our marriage, because she thought she found the happiness she was sorely lacking. She just never realized it starts from within us.
I'm not saying your wife is cheating on you. You're probably right that she hasn't. But be careful that she doesn't eventually look at that option as a way of finding happiness or a way of filling in the gap in her life.
The fact you have internalized and recognized your flaws is huge. That's the first step in trying to help repair your marriage. You probably already realize you can't fix her. You can only fix yourself. And when you do, hopefully she'll be along for the ride with the new and improved you.


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## Mr335

Thanks for the insight and reassurance. Exactly what I was looking for in this forum!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

Eliminate the possibility of another man. 

Start investigating. It does not have to be this but you cannot work on the marriage if there is another man.

If she is close to any of her male friends do not discount this as innocent. She could be in an EA.


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## Houstondad

I agree with Entropy that one should always rule out the OM possibility. 
He's 100% right. If she's having an affair, especially EA, she's checked out. My EX left our marriage thinking we tried working on the marriage. She was 1/2 right. I tried everything, but it was all for nothing because she was trapped in the FOG till the very end.


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## staystrong

Entropy3000 said:


> Eliminate the possibility of another man.
> 
> Start investigating. It does not have to be this but you cannot work on the marriage if there is another man.
> 
> If she is close to any of her male friends do not discount this as innocent. She could be in an EA.


Mm hmm. :iagree:

Mr335, do you need advice on this? Start w/ accessing communications: her phone, email and FB.


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## Catherine602

I really think you are doing very well and tge previous suggestions are perfect. I have only a few things to add. 

I mean no disrespect to your wife however, I think you need to consider that she may be cheating. Trust but varify. Frequently, spouses who are in EA or PA suddenly change their view on the quality of their marriage. This is not the only explanation for her revelation that she has been unhappy. 

Some Women take a while to give up on an unhappy  relationship. By the time they want out, it is over for them. Often the decision comes after they have made several attempts to get their husbands to pay more attention to what is important to them. A request to stop groping is a biggie to women who don't wcome it. 

It sounds like you have reason to be optimistic if the problem is the latter. I think you are doing most things right. 

One thing is that may want to consider is that you shoud not become subservient to her. Don't do more of the household chores than your share. Work out a fair distribution of chores. Also, don't hang on her every word and action. 

Being loving is good but going overboard will be seen as weak. Pay attention to her needs but you need to make sure that she will give your needs attention too. When you are more on track you can tackle that issue. 

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

Let me be clear that no one is saying she is in an affair. I would suggest investigating this even if you were 99.9% sure it was something else. Why? Because this is something you can take action on. Eliminate this possiblity. It does not mean that in paralell you can't pursue other directions. But if there is another man you must stop that. She may not realize herself there is OM. She may just have a very good freind who really gets and her and so on.

But history rewriting can come with an affair. Indeed she mat be done.

Often a walk away wife did indicate to her husband years ago there were problems. Frankly he may not have picked up on it . Or she stopped complaining and us guys assume that things got better. Duh!?
Sometimes they just feel you should know. Sigh.

She may not be satisfied with herself. You are not making her happy. Happiness comes within. Yes I do what I can do all I can do to make my wife happy. I can do my part. But she must be willing to do her part.

Rule out the affair. DoNOT disregard innocnet loking non sexual contact. EAs are about bonding and can turn romantic / sexual at some point but the real damage is done before that time. People tend to destroy the primary relationship before they can move on. Not always but typically.

It also can only help that you work on yourself. Start lifting weights and be loving as Catherine states but do not be weak about it. That is not attractive. You want to be her lover, friend and husband not her man servant.


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## Mr335

Thank you everyone for the input. 

I feel very strongly about trusting her and NOT entertaining the notion of an affair. Our relationship has always been a relationship built on trust. I trust her completely and I know she trusts me completely.

Entropy, for the sake of argument, if, and this is a big _IF_, if she is having an affair, emotional or physical it isn't in fact something I can take action on. Other than calling it quits I could not make her stop. It would be entirely her decision.

I see an improvement. I see her working at it and I see myself sticking with it. She said that would work on our marriage for the sake of our kids but she also said that she wasn't ready to give up on our marriage. She values what it stands for just like me.

Five years.

She said she wanted to try and make our marriage work and that she wouldn't give up easily. She said she was prepared to work on it for up to 5 years. That shows commitment.

At the risk of sounding stoic, I do not want to change my beliefs to discover what I already know, that she isn't having an affair. At the end of this journey I want to feel good about myself.

I have read many posts on this forum and other forums as well and I do see the parallels between my situation and others. I recognize the pattern: _woman tells man what bothers her, man ignores woman, woman starts nagging, man continues to ignore..._ and yes, then the woman checks out of the relationship. I think there is time to salvage our marriage. I _was_ told in time. _Barely_ in time, but in time. My wife has not done anything rash.

Her "man servant"

Yes, there is a danger. I have caught myself several times heading in that direction. This will be one of the toughest things to avoid but both my wife and I have always been independent. It's hardest right now while the wound is fresh but I'm pretty certain I can regain my independence and not succumb to becoming her _man servant._

I would love to hear from anyone out there that has been in this situation with a positive ending, meaning they saved their marriage, that neither spouse cheated and that they are as in love with each other as they ever were.


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## Sillyputty

Mr335 said:


> Thank you everyone for the input.
> 
> I feel very strongly about trusting her and NOT entertaining the notion of an affair. Our relationship has always been a relationship built on trust. I trust her completely and I know she trusts me completely.
> 
> Entropy, for the sake of argument, if, and this is a big _IF_, if she is having an affair, emotional or physical it isn't in fact something I can take action on. Other than calling it quits I could not make her stop. It would be entirely her decision.
> 
> I see an improvement. I see her working at it and I see myself sticking with it. She said that would work on our marriage for the sake of our kids but she also said that she wasn't ready to give up on our marriage. She values what it stands for just like me.
> 
> Five years.
> 
> She said she wanted to try and make our marriage work and that she wouldn't give up easily. She said she was prepared to work on it for up to 5 years. That shows commitment.
> 
> At the risk of sounding stoic, I do not want to change my beliefs to discover what I already know, that she isn't having an affair. At the end of this journey I want to feel good about myself.
> 
> I have read many posts on this forum and other forums as well and I do see the parallels between my situation and others. I recognize the pattern: _woman tells man what bothers her, man ignores woman, woman starts nagging, man continues to ignore..._ and yes, then the woman checks out of the relationship. I think there is time to salvage our marriage. I _was_ told in time. _Barely_ in time, but in time. My wife has not done anything rash.
> 
> Her "man servant"
> 
> Yes, there is a danger. I have caught myself several times heading in that direction. This will be one of the toughest things to avoid but both my wife and I have always been independent. It's hardest right now while the wound is fresh but I'm pretty certain I can regain my independence and not succumb to becoming her _man servant._
> 
> I would love to hear from anyone out there that has been in this situation with a positive ending, meaning they saved their marriage, that neither spouse cheated and that they are as in love with each other as they ever were.


I can relate dude, I can totally relate... and I am working on a good outcome I will share with you. We did the cyclical thinkg as you describe: W complains, H ignores, W complains some more, H ignores. Looking back I think my wife checked out about 6-8 years ago. Fortunately she wouldn't physically leave me as her moral/religious convictions would not allow her. During this time I tried many things to "fix" her but I simply could not do it. The reason I couldn't do it was, you guessed it, it wasn't her that neeed fixing. While my wife has many faults (as we ALL do), I see now that I was guilty of being hypercritical and, w/o knowing, trying to control her in many ways. I will spare you the details of this, the important thing is that despite my thinking that she was not measuring up for so many years, countless failed attempts at fixing her, I finally came to the realization that it was my responsibility to step up to the plate, swallow some pride and be the husband my wife was (silently) begging me to be. I was always loyal/honest/faithful/etc with her, but THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. I have read many books on relationships that describe "her needs," I understood the concepts but for some reason I never really thought it applied to my situation. I was wrong. It has only been a few weeks since I had this epiphany, I can tell you my wife is definitely noticing changes in my behavior toward her. This might sound like I have placed extra burden upon myself, however it has been extremely liberating to me. All those negative controlling thoughts and behaviors were somehow making me a prisoner in my own mind. Nothing she could do would please me, thus until recently I thought I wanted to leave too. As I really started to dig, however, it finally struck me like a ton of bricks--it was me that needed to change. I dreaded the idea at first, even denied it (God please "say it ain't so"), but now that I have embraced it I see each day as a blessing to be married to my wife. It is not always easy or natural to do this, but I am doing my best to realign my actions with this new mindset. The proverbial ton of bricks that hit me, in reality, feels like a ton has been lifted from my shoulders. Let me know if this story rings true for you, based on what you wrote I do see some parallels.


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## Entropy3000

Mr335 said:


> I feel very strongly about trusting her and NOT entertaining the notion of an affair.
> 
> Pity. Be willing to do what is needed to save a marriage is critical. You simply do not understand emotional affairs. Sorry this is going to cripple your ability then.
> 
> Entropy, for the sake of argument, if, and this is a big _IF_, if she is having an affair, emotional or physical it isn't in fact something I can take action on. Other than calling it quits I could not make her stop. It would be entirely her decision.
> 
> You are wrong. My wife saved our marriage when I was in an EA.
> 
> At the risk of sounding stoic, I do not want to change my beliefs to discover what I already know, that she isn't having an affair. At the end of this journey I want to feel good about myself.
> 
> Ok, so why dod you post here is you already had all the answer and / or are unwilling to change?


Glad you have it all figured out. Good luck.


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## Mr335

Sillyputty said:


> I can relate dude, I can totally relate... and I am working on a good outcome I will share with you. We did the cyclical thinkg as you describe: W complains, H ignores, W complains some more, H ignores. Looking back I think my wife checked out about 6-8 years ago. Fortunately she wouldn't physically leave me as her moral/religious convictions would not allow her. During this time I tried many things to "fix" her but I simply could not do it. The reason I couldn't do it was, you guessed it, it wasn't her that neeed fixing. While my wife has many faults (as we ALL do), I see now that I was guilty of being hypercritical and, w/o knowing, trying to control her in many ways. I will spare you the details of this, the important thing is that despite my thinking that she was not measuring up for so many years, countless failed attempts at fixing her, I finally came to the realization that it was my responsibility to step up to the plate, swallow some pride and be the husband my wife was (silently) begging me to be. I was always loyal/honest/faithful/etc with her, but THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. I have read many books on relationships that describe "her needs," I understood the concepts but for some reason I never really thought it applied to my situation. I was wrong. It has only been a few weeks since I had this epiphany, I can tell you my wife is definitely noticing changes in my behavior toward her. This might sound like I have placed extra burden upon myself, however it has been extremely liberating to me. All those negative controlling thoughts and behaviors were somehow making me a prisoner in my own mind. Nothing she could do would please me, thus until recently I thought I wanted to leave too. As I really started to dig, however, it finally struck me like a ton of bricks--it was me that needed to change. I dreaded the idea at first, even denied it (God please "say it ain't so"), but now that I have embraced it I see each day as a blessing to be married to my wife. It is not always easy or natural to do this, but I am doing my best to realign my actions with this new mindset. The proverbial ton of bricks that hit me, in reality, feels like a ton has been lifted from my shoulders. Let me know if this story rings true for you, based on what you wrote I do see some parallels.


Sillyputty, yes there are many parallels. I see you doing exactly what I have been doing and hopefully there will be a great outcome for both of us. There is a possibility that both us might have have caught it in time. I wish you all the luck in the world.


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## Mr335

A little more insight...

My wife has stated that she wants to be alone. She suspects that is what she always wanted. From a young age she has moved from partner to partner with very little time between to just be alone. 

Her need to be alone is possibly a result of the sexual abuse in her past. I have asked her if she thinks that is the reason, to which her reply was "It might be"


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## totamm

Mr335 said:


> Sometimes I suppose... She says she has been pretending to be happy for several years. I would say she comes across more angry than depressed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Depression is anger turned inwards.

It can also cause low tolerance, anxiety, and bursts of anger towards others.



Mr335 said:


> I feel very strongly about trusting her and NOT entertaining the notion of an affair. Our relationship has always been a relationship built on trust. I trust her completely and I know she trusts me completely.


Every relationship is based on trust. Even relationships that involve cheating. Yours is really no different from all the others. She trusts you completely because you have never given her a reason not to trust you, yet you trust her completely despite reasons NOT to trust her. 




Mr335 said:


> Entropy, for the sake of argument, if, and this is a big _IF_, if she is having an affair, emotional or physical it isn't in fact something I can take action on. Other than calling it quits I could not make her stop. It would be entirely her decision.


Why can't you do anything to stop an affair? There are many things you can do to "try" and stop an affair and if you fail, then there's always the option to just leave rather than sit there and put up with it which is also known as "being a cuckhold".



Mr335 said:


> Her need to be alone is possibly a result of the sexual abuse in her past. I have asked her if she thinks that is the reason, to which her reply was "It might be"


The old "sexually abused as a child" excuse.

Enough of that already. If that's the reason then she can get her butt into counseling and at least try to fix it.



Mr335 said:


> I'm pretty certain I can regain my independence and not succumb to becoming her _man servant._


By doing nothing to improve your situation other than "waiting her out" you are doing exactly that. Your relationship has become all about what SHE wants.


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## happyman64

Mr335 said:


> A little more insight...
> 
> My wife has stated that she wants to be alone. She suspects that is what she always wanted. From a young age she has moved from partner to partner with very little time between to just be alone.
> 
> Her need to be alone is possibly a result of the sexual abuse in her past. I have asked her if she thinks that is the reason, to which her reply was "It might be"


You know what I think Mr 335.

Your wife is selfish.

I understand her past abuse. And you were right to support her desire to seek help.

And MC is also a good step to find out truly what her issues are.

But guess what.

You both decided to marry each other.
You both decided to start a family.
You both have responsibilities to each other, the marriage and the children.

Her desire to be alone is selfish of her. The day she decided to marry and have children that option flew right out the window.

She loves her job. Does she love it so much that you became the chief cook and bottle washer.

She sounds selfish. And you putting her on any kind of pedestal or taking up all the slack at home has not helped the situation.

I do not think you are doomed but if I was you I would not make any long term plans with your wife.

Your wife reminds me of a woman not in a affair but one that came out of one recently. I hope that is not the case.

Good Luck and Keep posting. There are a few couples that have reconciled successfully. I am sure you will hear from them soon.

HM64


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## Mr335

totamm said:


> The old "sexually abused as a child" excuse.
> 
> Enough of that already. If that's the reason then she can get her butt into counseling and at least try to fix it.


She has gone to counselling and has come leaps and bounds. As well, we are starting counselling together and she is fully prepared and expecting to speak about and address the issues from her past.


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## Mr335

happyman64 said:


> You know what I think Mr 335.
> 
> Your wife is selfish.
> 
> I understand her past abuse. And you were right to support her desire to seek help.
> 
> And MC is also a good step to find out truly what her issues are.
> 
> But guess what.
> 
> You each decided to marry each other.
> You both decided to start a family.
> You both have responsibilities to each other, the marriage and the children.
> 
> Her desire to be alone is selfish of her. The day she decided to marry and have children that option flew right out the window.
> 
> She loves her job. Does she love it so much that you became the chief cook and bottle washer.
> 
> She sounds selfish. And you putting her on any kind of pedestal or taking up all the slack at home has not helped the situation.
> 
> I do not think you are doomed but if I was you I would not make any long term plans with your wife.
> 
> Your wife reminds me of a woman not in a affair but one that came out of one recently. I hope that is not the case.
> 
> Good Luck and Keep posting. There are a few couples that have reconciled successfully. I am sure you will hear from them soon.
> 
> HM64


All excellent points and duly noted. 

I look forward to our first counselling appointment together and will keep everyone apprised.


----------



## Sillyputty

Mr335 said:


> A little more insight...
> 
> My wife has stated that she wants to be alone. She suspects that is what she always wanted. From a young age she has moved from partner to partner with very little time between to just be alone.
> 
> Her need to be alone is possibly a result of the sexual abuse in her past. I have asked her if she thinks that is the reason, to which her reply was "It might be"


Good luck with the counseling Mr335, I think you are on the right track. It sounds like there is more to this story and hopefully that will come out during counseling. Sure your wife might be able to heal alone, but no one is in a better position to help her than you. And the fact that you are willing speaks volumes about your character. She obviously has some HEAVY issues (don't we all?) but I think you are doing the right thing to stand by her. Just be careful not to become a doormat as others have warned. I once read a book called _Stand Like Mountain, Flow Like Water._ The book wasn't great but the title alone made up for it. Let us know how you make out.


----------



## Mr335

Ok, I snooped.

She is/was having an affair. Physical a few month's ago (twice to be precise) and now emotional. 

With her boss.

I am aware how text book this is.

My first instinct was to not mention it as I am so embarassed but if I cannot be honest with several strangers in cyberspace than I am in BIG trouble.

My wife and I talked for several hours. She found with him the love and attention I wasn't giving her. She confronted me about my "wandering eye", I acknowledged. I also admitted to watching porn. We spoke calmly, I told her I wanted to work things out. She admitted that she loved her boss (_God_ how that KILLED me) but agreed that our relationship was more important. She told me she would end the emotional affair. (as I said it was physical twice several months ago) She admitted she couldn't stop how she feels about him but will tell him he was no longer to speak to her in anything but a professional manner at work and not to seek any intimacy.

This is hard.

I asked her if she was willing to work on our marriage for as much as 5 years as she said before. She said even longer than that.

It has very difficult to put this down in words but it is the therapy I need. We start MC in 6 days.


----------



## anchorwatch

She needs to quit her job yesterday. 

I expect you'll have a problem believing that too!

Here, read this; http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739

Sorry for the state of your marriage. Now start to listen to the others who are experienced if you want to save it, or can save it.


----------



## anchorwatch

Read the part about the addiction to the brain chemicals the affair produces. "The Fog"


----------



## tom67

Is her boss married? If so his wife needs to know she has to quit if you have any chance of saving this, sorry.


----------



## Entropy3000

Mr335 said:


> Ok, I snooped.
> 
> She is/was having an affair. Physical a few month's ago (twice to be precise) and now emotional.
> 
> With her boss.
> 
> I am aware how text book this is.
> 
> My first instinct was to not mention it as I am so embarassed but if I cannot be honest with several strangers in cyberspace than I am in BIG trouble.
> 
> My wife and I talked for several hours. She found with him the love and attention I wasn't giving her. She confronted me about my "wandering eye", I acknowledged. I also admitted to watching porn. We spoke calmly, I told her I wanted to work things out. She admitted that she loved her boss (_God_ how that KILLED me) but agreed that our relationship was more important. She told me she would end the emotional affair. (as I said it was physical twice several months ago) She admitted she couldn't stop how she feels about him but will tell him he was no longer to speak to her in anything but a professional manner at work and not to seek any intimacy.
> 
> This is hard.
> 
> I asked her if she was willing to work on our marriage for as much as 5 years as she said before. She said even longer than that.
> 
> It has very difficult to put this down in words but it is the therapy I need. We start MC in 6 days.


She must quit her job immediately. She must go NC with him. It will take a couple of months to go thru withdrawal. Any contact whatsoever will start that clock again.

There is no compromise in this if you want to save your marriage.

Wow she immediately went to the blame shift. Like there is an equialence of looking at porn and having sex with your boss.

I would report her boss to HR. I would expose the affair to his wife / GF.

This will help with her quiting her job for one.

This feels like a rug sweep.


----------



## happyman64

Mr335 said:


> Ok, I snooped.
> 
> She is/was having an affair. Physical a few month's ago (twice to be precise) and now emotional.
> 
> With her boss.
> 
> I am aware how text book this is.
> 
> My first instinct was to not mention it as I am so embarassed but if I cannot be honest with several strangers in cyberspace than I am in BIG trouble.
> 
> My wife and I talked for several hours. She found with him the love and attention I wasn't giving her. She confronted me about my "wandering eye", I acknowledged. I also admitted to watching porn. We spoke calmly, I told her I wanted to work things out. She admitted that she loved her boss (_God_ how that KILLED me) but agreed that our relationship was more important. She told me she would end the emotional affair. (as I said it was physical twice several months ago) She admitted she couldn't stop how she feels about him but will tell him he was no longer to speak to her in anything but a professional manner at work and not to seek any intimacy.
> 
> This is hard.
> 
> I asked her if she was willing to work on our marriage for as much as 5 years as she said before. She said even longer than that.
> 
> It has very difficult to put this down in words but it is the therapy I need. We start MC in 6 days.


Mr335

You are still in shock.

I know. Life sucks.

But you need to really listen to all the advice coming your way now.

Because you are going to get angry, rightfully so.

And your wife is going to need to step up to the plate. Big time.

HM64


----------



## keko

Expose far and wide, to make sure the affair is killed.

Expose it to their workplace and family/friends all at once.

You need to shock her out of the affair or fog as some call it if you're hoping to have a chance in saving the marriage.

Don't waste another second, start right now.


----------



## tom67

keko said:


> Expose far and wide, to make sure the affair is killed.
> 
> Expose it to their workplace and family/friends all at once.
> 
> You need to shock her out of the affair or fog as some call it if you're hoping to have a chance in saving the marriage.
> 
> Don't waste another second, start right now.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## SaltInWound

happyman64 said:


> But you need to really listen to all the advice coming your way now.


You need to do more than listen. You need to do exactly what they tell you. They know what they are talking about.


----------



## happyman64

Let us know how you are doing 335???


----------



## Mr335

Thanks everyone for your concern., Here is an update.

We have been talking a lot. Maybe too much. I have been working on giving her space but am still fighting the urge to be too accommodating, too _nice_, just too much... That ol' hold on tight and don't let go thing... 

We started MC yesterday and ironically enough our biggest blow up since this whole thing began was just before our appointment. Despite that it was a good session, our counsellor taking the time mostly just getting to know us and our situation. Today I had a one-on-one session with our counsellor and next week my wife has a one-on-one with her as well.

Things are stable. No great strides forward and no big leaps back. It will take time, but as I said we are communicating.

Yesterday my wife said that she is afraid that she may just give in; meaning go back to pretending being happy just to keep the family together. I told her that is not what I want. I want us to be together AND happy. I couldn't live with myself if I made her stay and be unhappy for the rest of her life. She is not in love with me right now. She lost that love somewhere along the way. I'm willing to work on getting it back and we are both willing to work on this for a long time.


----------



## Mr335

Hi Everyone,

I haven't posted in awhile so I just wanted to drop a quick line to say that things seem to be in a fairly good state at the moment. We are seeing a counsellor both privately and together. I will put together a more detailed report soon!


----------



## anchorwatch

Eh hmm, and the OM?


----------



## Mr335

anchorwatch said:


> Eh hmm, and the OM?


She still has her job but broke off the relationship. She wrote a NC email to him stating that their relationship was no longer to be at any kind of personal level.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## terrence4159

DUDE she doesnt want you she said herself she is in love with him. she still works with him doesnt she? still sleeping with him at work and you dont know? is he married IF he is DIVORCE her her life will come crashing down when she realizes she is just his booty call and will realize the awsome man she left behind.

QUIT being a doormat QUIT being a cuckold


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## terrence4159

yeah and at the start of this thread you said she would never cheat, you were 110%adimit about that. she hasnt stopped they very very rarley do and with them working together there is no such thing as NC


----------



## Mr335

terrence4159 said:


> yeah and at the start of this thread you said she would never cheat, you were 110%adimit about that. she hasnt stopped they very very rarley do and with them working together there is no such thing as NC


 I am responding to the situation in how it seems fit. I posted my thoughts for support and advice. I do appreciate everyone's thoughts but no one but me knows exactly the situation and how my wife and I tick. We have always had a very trusting relationship. A mistake was made and I chose to forgive and trust her again. Her job is important to her and her happiness is vital in making our marriage work. 

If that puts me at risk at bring made a cuckold again it is a risk I am willing to take. I am certain this is the path we must take if we are to regain that strong bond that we once had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

335, Please! 

At least try to understand the theory abut why it is said she can not have "any contact" with the OM. Every time she sees him she gets emotionally fulfilled. She gets a rush of brain chemicals needed for bonding. This will block you from giving her emotional fulfillment and producing these chemicals in her. Thus "you" will not be able to bond with her. 

You are an intelligent man. Do the reads. Then at least you'll be informed as to your decision. 

The subject.

Anatomy of an Affair - The Chemistry of Love - Marriage AdvocatesMarriage Advocates

The marriage.

His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage: Willard F. Jr. Harley


----------



## Mr335

I truly do appreciate everyone's concern including yours, Terrence. I promise to take it all under consideration. I also promise to speak privately with my counsellor about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon

Hey Mr335, just saw your thread for the first time now, and it struck me because it is exactly what my ex W said, verbatim, when she was in her affair. Suffice to say I could tell automatically fromt your very first post it was affair script. My ex also said she just wanted to be alone... well as soon as the thrill of the affairs wore off she dated dozens and dozens of guys, is now with one that is moving in with her (and my son the 50% of the time he is there).

Point is, EVERY thing she told you during the course of the affair is completely unreliable, it has no value to you other than to confirm that yes she was following the script. She had all kinds of love for you and it didn't dry up 2 years ago or whatever, it stopped when she CHOSE to give it to someone she tricked herself into believing was someone better, but people who have such weak boundaries are certainly not any higher form of life than a loyal devoted husband. So don't blame yourself, use your anger to remain vigilant about enforcing the NC, if she slips then its 180 time and do every thing you can to set your post-marriage life up as best you can for the sake of you and the children, because you need to mitigate the damage she has done and she is not really going to negotiate as fair as you would hope. If she is remorseless than she has utter contempt for you (because of how she copes with her own choices and her lack of accountability) and don't try any kind of reasoning with her. Get yourself an attorney and draft up your initial proposed separation agreement, be firm. She will negotiate it down, and don't worry there is lots of time to stop a divorce in case she does shake out of the fog and become truly remorseful, just don't let either of you sweep it under the rug. Take care...


----------



## terrence4159

well good luck mr i cant watch you get walked over with that im going to quit following your thread best of luck to you


----------



## keko

Mr335 said:


> She still has her job but broke off the relationship. She wrote a NC email to him stating that their relationship was no longer to be at any kind of personal level.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If your friend told you the same thing, what would you tell him?

Don't be foolish mr335. Everyday she goes to work, she could be doing "favors" to her AP. She needs to quit her work like yesterday.

I take it you haven't exposed them to their workplace and the related families/friends? If so you're in false R and you only have at most a few weeks before another DDay.

I wish you good luck. You'll need it.


----------



## turnera

Make sure you tell the counselor that she was abused as a child. It will factor heavily, and she may or may not divulge that by herself.


----------



## turnera

Re the OM, every time she interacts with him, the feelings come back. Is your marriage worth this job? Because as long as she sees him, she will still be giving HIM her heart, and YOU her time.


----------



## Mr335

turnera said:


> Make sure you tell the counselor that she was abused as a child. It will factor heavily, and she may or may not divulge that by herself.


Our counsellor knows about the sexual abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr335

I will continue posting on this forum till the end of my journey. I feel that are many people out there that will benefit from this story. A story that I still feel can have a happy ending.

In a nutshell:

6 weeks ago my wife told me she no longer loved me in "that way". That "she-loved-me-but-no-longer-loved-me". She wanted to be alone.

Many of the issues that had bothered her for years - the fact that I sexualized her (always remarking on her body parts, groping her in public) not caring about the things that were important to her, (work) not contributing to the household chores, my inability to think deeply about important things... All those issues that she stopped talking about that were still there, she just got tired of nagging. These were the things that contributed to her falling out of love with me.

I freaked out. Became the perfect husband as far as all the main issues were concerned AND also turned into one of those clingy husbands. I was always holding her, touching her, telling her I loved her a thousand times a day. I was plain _annoying_.

2 weeks after that I discovered that she was in an affair. It was "physical" 4 months prior and although it was no longer physical it was currently an "emotional" affair. It was her boss at work and she was also in love with him.

I was upset but told her I still loved her and wanted us to work things out. I also still continued to be that clingy husband that both of us found so annoying. 

I asked her to do 2 things to show me that she truly intended to work on our marriage - first of all to send a "no contact" e-mail to her boss ending the affair. She did, and in the e-mail it states that she had decided to work on our marriage and although they work together he is not to contact her in a personal manner in any way. If he does so, she will not respond.

I did not ask her to quit her job and I have not exposed the affair to her friends, family or co-workers.

The second thing I asked is that she give me the password to all her e-mail accounts. I told her that even though I have every right to monitor all her actions I would do the following:

I would not check her e-mail, her texts messages, her call history, snoop through her purse, etc... I would not do any of that without telling her first. But if I ever decide to do that I will only give her a moment's notice, meaning I may call her and say I am looking through the browser history on her laptop or checking her e-mail at home at that very moment.

I felt that this would be a good way for us to regain trust in one another. It has been 4 weeks since we came to this agreement and I have felt no urge to look through her personal effects in that time. 

We also decided to go to counselling both privately and as a couple. My wife told me that despite the fact that she no longer loved me she was willing to work on our marriage for 5 years if not more. (BTW we also have 2 kids - a 1 year old and a 3 year old)

I find it ironic that one of her main issues with me was that I never wanted to talk about "important things". Now all I want to do is talk but she does not. She had checked out of our relationship several years ago and is simply not ready to open up the me at this time. That has been tough for me.

I have learned in my own way how to give my wife the space she needs. Whenever I get the urge to phone, text or e-mail her I do this - I send an e-mail addressed to her but send it to myself. I also have taken to writing a journal, which I also direct to her. (though she may never actually read it) I may send myself an e-mail up to 20 times a day but am not constantly coming up with a flimsy excuse to communicate with her in this time when she just needs time to think.

As well, for the most part I am allowing her to instigate the affection. Not always as I am still very much in love _and_ still very much attracted to her, but I try to let her come to me when she is ready.

We have not had sex since this all began but we still sleep together in each others arms, take baths together daily, kiss each other when we leave the house... We are still affectionate but not in any sexual way. We are also not what I would describe as passionate, just affectionate in a guarded way.

When this began several week's ago my wife told me she hoped I would meet someone that I wanted to be with as she hated to see me sad and she wasn't certain that she could be with me forever. Last night I asked her if she still wanted me to fall for someone else and she said she didn't know what she wanted.

I have also felt a slight shift in her feelings towards me in the past few days. Even though she told me she needed space and even though I have tried my best to give her this space - despite this I can't help but feel that she is reaching out to me, albeit very subtly... We have several short vacations planned together this month, most of them suggested by her, I very rarely send her a text or e-mail during the day (not because I don't want to, just because I am trying to back off) but she always seem to have at least one reason each day to contact me.

Anyways there is a slight shift and it is very clear to me that she is making an effort. At one point she confided that she may cave in and give up - stay with me for the benefit of our family and to keep me happy. I hope that is not the reason but i am not asking - I pushed her way too much the first few weeks and am waiting for her to talk when she is ready. 

What I hope is happening is that she is falling back in love me. I am definitely what you would describe as an optimist and I may be reaching quite a bit here. I may also be reading into something that is simply not there. I do know that that it is far too soon to tell, but I also know that am very focused in my efforts to be a better person and I will do whatever I can to make this marriage work. 

I will update regularly.


----------



## nevergveup

Well,I,m sorry Mr335,but you put to much trust in her.She accused
you of sexualizing her body by remarks,but she didn;t accuse her boss of this.

You did this wrong in the marriage,but this dosen't give her the right
to cheat on you.She has said it that sheis not in love with you.
Do the 180.you will be better of divorced.

I;m sorry if this is harsh,but I don't think she can be pleased as she dosen't really know what she wants in life.She needs to grow up,
successful marriage is hard work and life is far from perfect.


----------



## Mr Blunt

*Mr335
You are outstanding!*

*If your wife sticks with the 5 year commitment and follows good MC I think there is a lot of hope to save the marriage.*


I would just suggest that you not only work on saving your marriage but also get you self in the best possible condition so that you can be able to handle your life and help your children just in case the marriage does not work out. I am not backing off my optimistic view but there is just not a 100% guarantee in this situation. Your wife’s sexual abuse back in her youth is a determent to marriage but it can be improved.

You stated that your marriage is improving. Do not change anything. If your marriage takes a turn for the worse and it goes on for a long time then perhaps the 180 is a good alternative to try and save the marriage. I know a lot of people on TAM recommend 180 and I also think under some circumstance the 180 is very good advice.

You must be a strong person to endure such rejection and then try to help your wife.

IMO divorce is the very last option and that is when everything else has failed. I think that you are wise in trying to save the marriage at this point. Throwing in the towel in the first few months is not giving recovery a chance. Your wife has taken some steps in the right direction. 

It would be best if there were some kind of strong barriers with her boss to keep him and her from being tempted in a weak moment. I know that the threat of the boss losing his job over the affair is a very strong barrier. In addition, the threat of informing the Boss’s wife and family is also a strong barrier. Leaving the job is another. However, that is a call for you and your wife to make.

*Many marriages have recovered from infidelity and so there is hope.*


----------



## Mr335

Thank you Mr. Blunt. That is exactly the positive support I am needing right now. I really appreciate your words of encouragement and I will keep my nose to the grind stone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt

You certanly are welcome

I am not speaking to you from theory but experience


----------



## happyman64

Hey 335

You can nice your wife back into the marriage. It has been done on TAM before but it rarely succeeds in the long term. 

But if that is what you want to do that is your choice.

You have to realize that your wife has daily contact with the OM. That is very bad for you. nC letter or not.

Also, you are letting the OM remain in a position of authority that he has abused.

That can seriously affect your Reconciliation.

And giving your wife space and trust is great. But she can certainly abuse that privilege like she has done in the past.

What you really need to be aware of is not the accounts you have passwords for but any new accounts she will create post Affair.

You guys have young kids and have not been married long.

I am glad you are fighting for your marriage and family.

Have you set up clear conditions for your Reconciliation? Have you discussed consequences for her if she breaks these conditions?

Good Luck and keep posting.

HM64


----------



## tom67

She has to look for another job though. You don't know what they are doing on breaks, for lunch ect. She said she loved him but good luck.


----------



## anchorwatch

335, 

1) It's encouraging to hear you see some sign of optimism in this bleak situation. I'm glad you see your part in the brake down of the relationship too. But for her part, has your W expressed responsibility for going outside the marriage for comfort or shown remorse for the affair?

2) You have decided proceed with Dr. Harley's Plan A to win her heart back. I assume you have read his books on how to recover the marriage. Has she agreed to the concepts? Has she read "His needs, Her Needs" and Surviving an Affair" Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

3) I, as others, still have concerns about her daily contact with the OM. I hope you have read the link I sent you about the attachment syndrome and how that can retard or make R impossible. The odds for recovering a marriage, after an affair, are grim and continual contact with the AP reduces that. I hope you are not being played, until the children are older or something else in her situation improves enough that she no longer needs you. 

Good luck in your quest. Recovery is a long road. I hope to hear good news as you continue.


----------



## turnera

Mr335 said:


> Many of the issues that had bothered her for years - the fact that I sexualized her (always remarking on her body parts, groping her in public) not caring about the things that were important to her, (work) not contributing to the household chores, my inability to think deeply about important things... All those issues that she stopped talking about that were still there, she just got tired of nagging. These were the things that contributed to her falling out of love with me.


Those could have been my words. Exactly. And, I suspect, thousands of other women's words. I wish more men would pay attention to this.


----------



## turnera

This has about a 10% chance of working out, if she keeps working there.


----------



## Mr335

anchorwatch said:


> 335,
> 
> 1) It's encouraging to hear you see some sign of optimism in this bleak situation. I'm glad you see your part in the brake down of the relationship too. But for her part, has your W expressed responsibility for going outside the marriage for comfort or shown remorse for the affair?
> 
> 2) You have decided proceed with Dr. Harley's Plan A to win her heart back. I assume you have read his books on how to recover the marriage. Has she agreed to the concepts? Has she read "His needs, Her Needs" and Surviving an Affair" Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
> 
> 3) I, as others, still have concerns about her daily contact with the OM. I hope you have read the link I sent you about the attachment syndrome and how that can retard or make R impossible. The odds for recovering a marriage, after an affair, are grim and continual contact with the AP reduces that. I hope you are not being played, until the children are older or something else in her situation improves enough that she no longer needs you.
> 
> Good luck in your quest. Recovery is a long road. I hope to here good news as you continue.


Yes, my wife has expressed remorse and her actions are a strong indication that she is willing to work on "us".

No, I was not aware of Dr. Hartley's A Plan but I will check it out thanks for the link.

I do realize that my wife continuing to work at the same job makes things very difficult but I truly believe there is no other way. Less than a week ago she was given a major promotion with a substantial pay raise which not only helps her but helps our family as well. Her job is extremely important to her and if I were to ask her to quit it would make her very unhappy. Yes, it is a big chance I am taking but I am willing to trust her again. I won't say she couldn't pull the wool over my eyes but I now know what to look for, namely in the way she acts towards me.

I do not feel I am being played for the sake of the kids. I know the odds of surviving an affair are grim but I am diligent. Thanks for your words of support.


----------



## Mr335

turnera said:


> Those could have been my words. Exactly. And, I suspect, thousands of other women's words. I wish more men would pay attention to this.


I am listening now and I do hope that it is not too late.


----------



## SaltInWound

Mr335 said:


> I do realize that my wife continuing to work at the same job makes things very difficult but I truly believe there is no other way. Less than a week ago she was given a major promotion with a substantial pay raise which not only helps her but helps our family as well. Her job is extremely important to her and if I were to ask her to quit it would make her very unhappy.


 

If you don't squash this affair and she leaves you, how is her job helping your family?

She forced chaos and unhappiness onto you and your family. Why should she be spared?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Mr335 said:


> Yes, my wife has expressed remorse and her actions are a strong indication that she is willing to work on "us".
> 
> No, I was not aware of Dr. Hartley's A Plan but I will check it out thanks for the link.
> 
> I do realize that my wife continuing to work at the same job makes things very difficult but I truly believe there is no other way. *Less than a week ago she was given a major promotion with a substantial pay raise which not only helps her but helps our family as well. Her job is extremely important to her and if I were to ask her to quit it would make her very unhappy. *Yes, it is a big chance I am taking but I am willing to trust her again. I won't say she couldn't pull the wool over my eyes but I now know what to look for, namely in the way she acts towards me.
> 
> I do not feel I am being played for the sake of the kids. I know the odds of surviving an affair are grim but I am diligent. Thanks for your words of support.


He job was so important to her that she risked it all by sleeping with the boss. First she has NO RIGHT to make any demands about whether she should keep this job or not. If she truly is into reconciliation, then she would quit this job without you even asking her.

So, what's stopping you and your wife from filing a sexual harassment lawsuit against this POS of a boss and frying his ass and getting a nice payoff from the place that she works?


----------



## tom67

Plan 9 from OS said:


> He job was so important to her that she risked it all by sleeping with the boss. First she has NO RIGHT to make any demands about whether she should keep this job or not. If she truly is into reconciliation, then she would quit this job without you even asking her.
> 
> So, what's stopping you and your wife from filing a sexual harassment lawsuit against this POS of a boss and frying his ass and getting a nice payoff from the place that she works?


Good point!:iagree::iagree:


----------



## tom67

Did she get the promotion to avoid such a lawsuit? Hmm! Did the boss she was sleeping with directly "give" her this promotion. I'm sorry this isn't good man.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Harken Banks said:


> For clarity, by "f*ck her boss" I do not mean make it your life's work. I mean simply that you owe this douche no deference. F*ck him.


Since you are an attorney, does the OP have enough of a case to consider securing an attorney that specializes in workplace chicanery so that he can fry the boss plus get a nice payoff too?


----------



## Cubby

Mr335, you're way too tolerant. She needs to quit the job now. It really seems like you haven't studied the links that have been provided. The info explaining the brain chemicals. 

All the relationship talk and touchy-feely stuff can go on and on, but I think it only makes you appear more unattractive to her. It just seems weak and needy. At least that's how your posts are reading to me.

Making her quit her job would be one of those moves that a confident, strong man makes. Did you know that women dig men that don't take any crap from anyone?


----------



## Mr335

I hear what everyone is saying but I need to stick to my guns. If my wife and I get through this, it will be through her staying with her job.

I also hear you about the affection thing. I will try not to come across as too dependent.


----------



## Mike6211

Mr335 said:


> ...I will try not to come across as too dependent.


You mean, you'll try to hide your dependency behind a veneer of not-seeming-dependent?

It won't work. Women have intuition as a sixth sense, remember? That intuition incorporates dependency-hiding-veneer penetrating radar. Works from any distance closer than 20 feet and gets activated on pulses of less than a few seconds. One of nature's miracles, really.

And that would be the case, even if you'd said that you were going to make sure that you wouldn't come across as dependent. If you're only going to 'try' not to come across as 'too' dependent then the radar works at fifty feet and in a few ticks of a watch..


----------



## turnera

MR335, have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet?


----------



## Mr335

turnera said:


> MR335, have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet?


No I have not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Mr335 said:


> I hear what everyone is saying but I need to stick to my guns. *If my wife and I get through this, it will be through her staying with her job.*
> 
> I also hear you about the affection thing. I will try not to come across as too dependent.


Why is that? I don't think you realize that as long as your wife and her lover are still in daily contact - even if the affair is "over" - there is no hope for you reconciling with her. I don't think you get it. So I have to ask you - is the money worth losing the marriage? Because the only possible silver lining in this will be that you may be able to get spousal support from her when you two eventually divorce.


----------



## anchorwatch

Mr335 said:


> I hear what everyone is saying but I need to stick to my guns. If my wife and I get through this, it will be through her staying with her job.
> 
> I also hear you about the affection thing. I will try not to come across as too dependent.


Just a few notes: 

You may not agree with all the advice, but everyone here has you best interest at heart. 

No man has ever made himself more sexually attractive, than his wife's AP, by doing the laundry. If you're going to help out about the home and start to fill her emotional needs, you need to display that it is just something a man does as a husband and father. Not because you want her to like you for it.


----------



## Mr335

anchorwatch said:


> Just a few notes:
> 
> You may not agree with all the advice, but everyone here has you best interest at heart.
> 
> No man has ever made himself more sexually attractive, than his wife's AP, by doing the laundry. If you're going to help out about the home and start to fill her emotional needs, you need to display that it is just something a man does as a husband and father. Not because you want her to like you for it.


The changes I am making I am making because these are changes I want to see in me and in my life.

I do realize that everyone has my best interest at heart but also be aware I am definitely seeing an improvement in the situation. What I am doing IS working at the moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Mr335 said:


> The changes I am making I am making because these are changes I want to see in me and in my life.
> 
> I do realize that everyone has my best interest at heart but also be aware I am definitely seeing an improvement in the situation. What I am doing IS working at the moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did your wife explain to you WHY she had the affair with her boss? Does she understand how to set boundaries for herself? Did she do any of the soul searching needed to figure out WHY she can betray her marital vows just because someone gave her a little attention? Did she acknowledge that she has boundary issues and needs to work on those? 

If you don't have most of the answers to the questions above, then you aren't getting anywhere. JMHO.


----------



## Harken Banks

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Since you are an attorney, does the OP have enough of a case to consider securing an attorney that specializes in workplace chicanery so that he can fry the boss plus get a nice payoff too?


Consensual f*cking around is not actionable. She may have a harrasment claim or other workplace claim, but Mr 335 does not. Tortious interference does not extend to the marriage contract, whatever that is.


----------



## Harken Banks

335, I hope you realize that you are on the receiving end of a TAM intervention. These do not happen every day.

Every other or 3rd day, maybe. But generally not every day.


----------



## 3putt

Mr335 said:


> The changes I am making I am making because these are changes I want to see in me and in my life.
> 
> I do realize that everyone has my best interest at heart but also be aware I am definitely seeing an improvement in the situation. *What I am doing IS working at the moment.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm bookmarking this post for future reference.


----------



## turnera

Mr335 said:


> No I have not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 This would be an excellent time to read it. It will help you understand the balance you need to have in your marriage, so that you can make it healthier, and keep this kind of thing from happening again.

After that, read His Needs Her Needs.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> I'm bookmarking this post for future reference.


Oh boy


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> This would be an excellent time to read it. It will help you understand the balance you need to have in your marriage, so that you can make it healthier, and keep this kind of thing from happening again.
> 
> After that, read His Needs Her Needs.


Unfortunately, we have seen your scenario over and over ad nauseum.

In another post Tunera, who is right 99.9% of the time, said you have about a 10% chance of saving this. Actually, when a wife cheats, there is only about a 15% chance that a marriage can be saved in the U.S. That assumes both spouses want to.

There is a reason your wife wants to stay with you at this point and it has nothing to do with you. What you can not understand is how unattractive you have become to her. A woman CANNOT respect a man that does not fight for her. You are literally approving of her affair. Everytime she sees her boss the the little tingly butterflies go off. Every time she sees you, she sees a weak, needy, fearful, little man. One of the biggest clues is no sex for you. When a couple decide to really work it out, they go at each other like newly weds except even more. Its called hysterical bonding. (BTW a husband that becomes the maid doesn't get laid)

That she said they only had sex twice is patently absurd. The reasonm she is still withh you is he is just using her for sex. He doesn't want to mess up his real relationship. Does he have a wife and kids?

You are not going to accomplish anything until you come out of the betrayed spouse fog. This is the result of the emotional panic of losing your family.

You need to ask the moderator to move this thread to the Coping with Infidelity Section.

You need to read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER, HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS, tHE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES, NOT JUST FRIENDS.

The reason Turnera is wrong this time is that after being involved in so many of these threads, NOT ONE, has worked out doing what you are doing. It has been tried 100s of times, all with the same result. The best that has happened was a false reconcilliation, which is what you have.

Hint, ask her if she is willing to take a polygraph about wheter or not she only had sex twice with him and if they have stopped? You thinking you know her is obviously not even close.

Go back through your thread and count the times you have already been wrong.

If she sincerely wants to save her family, and all cheaters lie and swear on their childrens/parents lives, you have a shot. She is trickle truthing you and when you find out how bad, it is likely you love for her will disappear.

BTW, you are not the only one the WW will snuggle with but will give sex only to her lover.


----------



## Chaparral

How did you snoop? You say you have quit. I have never seen any poster do everything wrong, yu are a first.

Read this link from Lostcpa, he trusted his WW too.http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html


----------



## Chaparral

Download this now to see how your wife is thinking/doing.

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

The second book you need to get is NOT JUST FRIENDS Amazon.com: not just friends by shirley glass: Books

I am giving you this info assuming she is not ina full blown affair though the odds are against that assumption.

Read up in the CWI section. Here is the first thrread you need to read. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


----------



## Mr335

turnera said:


> This would be an excellent time to read it. It will help you understand the balance you need to have in your marriage, so that you can make it healthier, and keep this kind of thing from happening again.
> 
> After that, read His Needs Her Needs.


Ok, I will check it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr335

BTW, I would appreciate some perspective from the women out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

Lol, Turnera is a woman.


----------



## turnera

My perspective is that if she isn't quitting her job, you need to read NMMNG and MMSLP as soon as you can. She NEEDS to see you stepping up, manning up, right at this time. Women need their men to be strong. IMO, that's the main reason women cheat. They SAY they want their man to help with the housework and listen to them yada yada, but when the men DO it, the women lose respect for them. That's when their radar goes up and they start noticing the 'strong' men - the kind of man who WOULD steal your wife away from you. Even if it's a horrible, immoral thing to do, it still gets them hot and bothered; primeval stuff from caveman days.

So your job now is to NOT turn into your wife's houseboy, to be VERY strict (yet loving) about monitoring her. The first time she refuses to hand over her phone, you need to tell her you will help her pack, because you won't stay married to a woman who won't do at least THIS much to make up for what she did.

Help with housework - some. But still go out with your friends, have your own activities. And for God's sake, never ask her how she's feeling.


----------



## Mr335

I would also love to hear from others in relationships where one partner had fallen out of love with the other. If you were able to come back and fall back in love and how you did it.


----------



## Chaparral

Mr335 said:


> I would also love to hear from others in relationships where one partner had fallen out of love with the other. If you were able to come back and fall back in love and how you did it.


This means you haven't read MMSLP or His Needs Her Needs Yet.

She hasn't fallen out of love with you, she thinks she has fallen in love with another man. BIG difference. As long a s she is around him the chemicals in her brain will keep her in her fantasy fog.

All this needs to be run by his wife. She will lock the gate on his end, you will watch the gate on your end. Nothing, however, will work as long as she is with him pining away.

I am guessing he has dumped her, possibly because you found out. When he figures out you are doing nothing to him, he will go after her again. Successfully.


----------



## turnera

Not to hog your thread, but I fell out of love with my husband decades ago and was too chicken to leave. When I found MB, I was urged to follow the plan. Unwillingly, I did - I started meeting his ENs and tried to stop my LBs. And he responded immediately. He had been as unhappy as I was. That helped some. Five years later, I was still full of resentment, just like your wife. So I finally had had enough, and told him so - that if he didn't start going to therapy to address his issues, I was ready to leave. He's been going for about 6-7 months now and things are remarkably better. I still don't really love him, I still wish he would just disappear, but life is more tolerable and I'm not thinking so much about moving out. It's mainly following the material in HNHN that worked. But in your case, you need to man up some; you are WAY to beta to keep a once-wayward who's seen what else is out there. Women need alpha men. (and no, that doesn't mean neanderthals; it means men who won't accept crap behavior)


----------



## Harken Banks

Did your wife say that she wanted to be alone forever? Did those words come from her, or was that your paraphrase?


----------



## anchorwatch

How about both partners, living as roommates for years, no affection, no love, resenting each other for the state of their lives, looking for a way out. Is that close enough for you. Standing on the edge of goodbye.

We're here because we lived it. I saved my marriage and my wife and I are romantic again as if we were teenagers. 40 years together, 38 married. 

How I did it? I studied the subject. I read every book suggested to me. I understood what had happened and our parts in it. As soon as I took responsibility for what I had done, I let go of the resentment. I started to make the changes I learned and improved myself. It went slow as first because she still held on to her resentment. After time passed, My DW noticed the changes, but did not have faith. She took interest after she started reaping the rewards of my behavior. She then read the books and joined with me in earnest.

There is no magic potion, but you if you know how it works you can at least try to do something about it. I'm still a student and I still listen to posters (Turnera still hits me with a 2x4). 

Here's my list. The first three, I credit with my DW and I falling back in love with each other and saving our M. 

"His Need, Her Needs"
"Love Busters"
"Five Steps To Romantic Love" by Harley

"The Five Love Languages" by Chapman

"Seven Principles for Making a Marriage Work"
"The Relationship Cure" by Gottman

"No More Mr Nice Guy" by Glover

Married Men's Sex Life Primmer" by Kay

"Passionate Marriage"
"Intimacy & Desire" by Schnarch

BTW, I also watched one of the corniest made for TV movies I have ever seen...it hit home "The Love Dare"


----------



## Mr335

anchorwatch said:


> How about both partners, living as roommates for years, no affection, no love, resenting each other for the state of their lives, looking for a way out. Is that close enough for you. Standing on the edge of goodbye.
> 
> We're here because we lived it. I save my marriage and my wife and are romantic again as if we were teenagers. 40 together, 38 married.
> 
> How I did it? I studied the subject. I read every book suggested to me. I understood what had happened and our parts in it. As soon as I took responsibility for what I had done, I let go of the resentment. I started to make the changes I learned and improved myself. It went slow as first because she still held on to her resentment. After time passed, My DW noticed the changes, but did not have faith. She took interest after she started reaping the rewards of my behavior. She then read the books and joined with me in earnest.
> 
> There is no magic potion, but you if you know how it works you can at least try to do something about it. I'm still a student and I still listen to posters (Turnera).
> 
> Here's my list. The first three, I credit with my DW and I falling back in love with each other and saving our M.
> 
> "His Need, Her Needs"
> "Love Busters"
> "Five Steps To Romantic Love" by Harley
> 
> "The Five Love Languages" by Chapman
> 
> "Seven Principles for Making a Marriage Work"
> "The Relationship Cure" by Gottman
> 
> "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Glover
> 
> Married Men's Sex Life Primmer" by Kay
> 
> "Passionate Marriage"
> "Intimacy & Desire" by Schnarch
> 
> BTW, I also watched one of the corniest made for TV movies I have ever seen...it hit home "The Love Dare"


Thanks so much for all this. I am a big reader and I do realize I need some guidance. 38 years married! That is impressive. I am off to the book store and thanks again!


----------



## Mr335

I'll also look up the cheesy movie!


----------



## Mr335

Harken Banks said:


> Did your wife say that she wanted to be alone forever? Did those words come from her, or was that your paraphrase?


Those were her words exactly.


----------



## DavidWYoung

Well Honey, I am not holding you back, GOODBYE!


----------



## Mr335

chapparal said:


> I am guessing he has dumped her, possibly because you found out. When he figures out you are doing nothing to him, he will go after her again. Successfully.


He has no idea that I know. She ended it via e-mail telling him she was working on her marriage and that there was to be no further personal contact between the two of them.


----------



## Mr335

turnera said:


> Not to hog your thread, but I fell out of love with my husband decades ago and was too chicken to leave. When I found MB, I was urged to follow the plan. Unwillingly, I did - I started meeting his ENs and tried to stop my LBs. And he responded immediately. He had been as unhappy as I was. That helped some. Five years later, I was still full of resentment, just like your wife. So I finally had had enough, and told him so - that if he didn't start going to therapy to address his issues, I was ready to leave. He's been going for about 6-7 months now and things are remarkably better. I still don't really love him, I still wish he would just disappear, but life is more tolerable and I'm not thinking so much about moving out. It's mainly following the material in HNHN that worked. But in your case, you need to man up some; you are WAY to beta to keep a once-wayward who's seen what else is out there. Women need alpha men. (and no, that doesn't mean neanderthals; it means men who won't accept crap behavior)


Thank you so much for sharing this. I'm afraid I have no idea what many of your acronyms mean though... I hope you and your husband find happiness somehow.

I will also read those books you speak of, especially HNHN (figured out that acronym) and I will work on my Beta behaviour.

And don't worry about hogging my thread I truly do appreciate the perspective.


----------



## Chaparral

The first thing you need to read is MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. You can dowload it at amazon.com. good luck.


----------



## Mr335

Harken Banks said:


> Did your wife say that she wanted to be alone forever? Did those words come from her, or was that your paraphrase?


To clarify further, 6 weeks ago my wife told me that she loved me but no longer loved me in that way. She said that she was happiest when she was alone. She wanted to be alone forever.

Two weeks later I discovered the affair. Even though she told me she was in love with the OM, she maintained that she still wanted to be alone. If she left me it would to be alone, not too be with him. I admit that is a hard pill to swallow but those were her words and she still maintains that she would not leave me for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr335

This weekend my wife and I took a holiday _sans_ kids. 

While we were away she spoke several times of our future, of some of the major renovations we were planning at home, of buying a new car, of vacation property we were planning on buying... She even spoke of the retirement home we always wanted several years from now.

It was a good weekend. The affection was muted as it has been for the past few weeks. As we were driving home she wanted to speak about a few things, or more accurately I think she could tell that I wanted to speak about a few things and she opened the floor for discussion.

She did bring up the lack of intimacy. She told me that she did not want to instigate anything "intimate" until she felt that way about me. She told me that she thought about doing it just to make me happy but I told her that I did not want that, I wanted her to be intimate with me when she felt it.

She said that she did feel the odd twinge of something for me, especially when she sees me with our kids.

She also told me she that she didn't know what she wanted now and that she was trying to figure that part out. I see that as a positive change because as recently as 3 weeks ago she maintained that she wanted to be alone.


----------



## SaltInWound

Mr335 said:


> While we were away she spoke several times of our future, of some of the major renovations we were planning at home, of buying a new car, of vacation property we were planning on buying... She even spoke of the retirement home we always wanted several years from now.


The day my stbxh said he wanted a divorce and left me homeless, we went out shopping, where we did "wish" list browsing for outdoor furniture. Had fun looking at Christmas stuff. Went out to lunch. Went shopping for our animals, dropped by the DMV, and did some grocery shopping. And even joked that in 5 years we would qualify for the 55+ housing community that we drove past. Seemed normal in every way. Who would have guessed.


----------



## anchorwatch

I understand why you're cautious and don't want duty sex. Remember intimacy is the strongest method of bonding. The longer you hold off, the harder it will be to connect on that level. You might think of it as 'fake it till you make it' at first. You could try it without expectations and see how it feels to both of you, when the opportunity is right. Don't let it go to long. 

How's the reading?


----------



## Mr335

anchorwatch said:


> I understand why you're cautious and don't want duty sex. Remember intimacy is the strongest method of bonding. The longer you hold off, the harder it will be to connect on that level. You might think of it as 'fake it till you make it' at first. You could try it without expectations and see how it feels to both of you, when the opportunity is right. Don't let it go to long.
> 
> How's the reading?


I hear you about the duty sex/intimacy bonding, though I believe we were not only speaking about sex but also speaking about being "passionate". I will be sure not to stand too high on my pedestal to refuse affection, albeit a bit forced at first.

As for the reading, I could not find any of your suggested books locally so I did order via Amazon. I ordered:

No More Mr. Nice Guy (as suggested by turnera and others)

And your top 3 suggested:

His Need, Her Needs
Love Busters
Five Steps To Romantic Love 

They should arrive sometime this week and then I will get right on the reading!


----------



## turnera

Mr335 said:


> To clarify further, 6 weeks ago my wife told me that *she loved me but no longer loved me in that way*. She said that she was happiest when she was alone. She wanted to be alone forever.
> 
> Two weeks later *I discovered the affair*. Even though she told me she was in love with the OM, she maintained that she still wanted to be alone. *If she left me it would to be alone, not to be with him*.


No offense, Mr335, but this is your ignorance showing.

We here have witnessed hundreds, THOUSANDS, of marriages JUST LIKE YOURS. There IS A SCRIPT. And that script has shown, over and over and over and over, that once a woman falls in love with another man - like your wife has - it IS to be with him. Even if he doesn't WANT her, she wants to be with him.

You got the ILYBINILWY speech. In 99.5% of all cases of men receiving the ILYBINILWY speech, the wife is in love with the Other Man. And you can no longer believe a word she says. She may LOOK like your wife, she may SOUND like your wife, but an alien has overtaken her body. 

No matter what she tells you, SHE WANTS HIM. Ignore this advice at your own risk. 

If you don't believe me, go read a couple dozen other threads here by other men. Which almost all had men trusting their wives. And almost all end in divorce because they ignore our advice.


----------



## turnera

Mr335 said:


> She did bring up the lack of intimacy. She told me that she did not want to instigate anything "intimate" until she felt that way about me.


 Women cannot love more than one man at a time. 

She loves OM.

So she won't/can't be intimate with you as long as she desires OM.


----------



## Chaparral

The first book you need to readis MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER.
Download it at amazon. Com.

The other books are couples books and are great but pointless till you read MMSLP. IT EXPLAINS WHAT HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE AND HOW YOU GOT REPLACED.


----------



## Entropy3000

Mr335 said:


> To clarify further, 6 weeks ago my wife told me that she loved me but no longer loved me in that way. She said that she was happiest when she was alone. She wanted to be alone forever.
> 
> Two weeks later I discovered the affair. Even though she told me she was in love with the OM, she maintained that she still wanted to be alone. If she left me it would to be alone, not too be with him. I admit that is a hard pill to swallow but those were her words and she still maintains that she would not leave me for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It takes about two months of full no contact to go through withdrawal assuming the person wishes to withdraw.

So your wife is still in love with the other man. As others have stated she has to withdraw from him and then and only then will she be in position to fall back in love with you. Forget about true passion for a while. Also it may never come back. 

IF NC is broken in any way at all the clock on withdrawal starts over. Assume that NC has been broken. It always is during the early withdrawal period.

She is in denial as well. She would leave you and then see him. She is in love with him. She is in a brain chemical fog. Her thought process is impaired. She is lying to you. Perhaps to herself but it is a lie.


----------



## Entropy3000

Mr335 said:


> He has no idea that I know. She ended it via e-mail telling him she was working on her marriage and that there was to be *no further personal contact between* the two of them.


I wonder why she used the modifier "personal" contact. You do know that ANY contact breaks NC and continues the affair. Typically word modifiers like this are not for emphasis but for wiggle room.

*OMG!!!! I just read back and she is still working with the other man!!!!!!!

He is her BOSS!!! AYFKM. I saw nothing about her quiting her job.
If she does not quit her job you are enabling the affair. This is willingly being dominated by another man. This is not just unattractive but repulsive. There is no working on your marriage until she quits her job and goes complete NC and goes through withdrawal. NC is broken everytime he contacts her about work. This is ABSURD. Worse than rug sweeping. 

No point in any of what you are doing until you stand up as a man and tell her she must quit her job immediately. You should also expose them at the job. A boss banging one of his employees is unethical to say the least. An abuse of power. 

It turns my stomache thatyour wife would be in love with such a sleaze bag. She will stay in love with her boss. Also she is there for him anytime he want have another bit. She is not going to have sex with you because not only is she not in love with you but she is staying faithful to the man she does love. DO NOT SETTLE FOR THIS. Youe are enabling this affair and working against your own best interests. 
*


----------



## Entropy3000

Mr335 said:


> I hear what everyone is saying but I need to stick to my guns. *If my wife and I get through this, it will be through her staying with her job.*
> 
> I also hear you about the affection thing. I will try not to come across as too dependent.


WTH? You in essence are pimping your wife out to another man for the job sake.
I guess you are lucky he lets her keep seeing you at all. What a great guy.



> My wife and I talked for several hours. She found with him the love and attention I wasn't giving her. She confronted me about my "wandering eye", I acknowledged. I also admitted to watching porn. We spoke calmly, I told her I wanted to work things out. She admitted that she loved her boss (God how that KILLED me) but agreed that our relationship was more important. She told me she would end the emotional affair. (as I said it was physical twice several months ago) She admitted she couldn't stop how she feels about him but will tell him he was no longer to speak to her in anything but a professional manner at work and not to seek any intimacy.


Ok so this was all your fault!? You have a wandering eye? Serioulsy? WTF does does that mean? If it means you notice women this is penalizing you for being a man. Not a reason to bang your boss. And you acknowledged! How weak is that? OMG you watched porn. Indeed, any man who has looked at porn should accept that his wife should bang other men as they are equivalent.

She said she would end the emotional affair. That is hilarious. You only can do that by going complete NC. So no she did not end the affair. She could not stop how she feels about another man. Really? And you are ok with that? 

Ok you really do not want to do what is needed to be done to reconsile. I guess she told you that she would not leave her job for you. Trust me it is NOT the job no matter how much you will go on about the job. It is about the OM. Their affair is still going on and he has access to her. This is like 50 shades of Gray. You have allowed another man to maintain power over your wife and are willing to accept false bread crumbs for her. He "job" is more important that you? 

This is not just the wrong way to go but also very very unhealthy unless you are somehow into the lifestyle of sharing your wife. But indeed she is not being shared with you. As far as you know she is still banging this guy and not having sex with you.

But lest step back a moment. Perhaps her boss just used her. How pathetic is it to see your wife used by someone else and continues to be there to be used. You are living in an open marriage. The boss has your wife and you are not even getting her attention when she is with you. Why? Because she is in love with a man who takes what he wants. You are repulsive to her as you have allowed another man to take your wife because ... you have a wandering eye and looked at porn. Well it was jot just her eyes that wandered. She did more than look at erotic pictures. She let another man penetrate her. AND she has given herself to him and continues to do so. 

Sure this is harsh. But my God, is this what you want out of life? If it is, full speed ahead. But if you want your wife back you need to stand up for yourself and your marriage. That said your marriage will never be the same. You cannot just go back to being a happy little family and rug sweep the affair. But that is infinitely better than thinking you can let the affair continue as it is.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Entropy3000 said:


> I wonder why she used the modifier "personal" contact. You do know that ANY contact breaks NC and continues the affair. Typically word modifiers like this are not for emphasis but for wiggle room.
> 
> *OMG!!!! I just read back and she is still working with the other man!!!!!!!
> 
> He is her BOSS!!! AYFKM. I saw nothing about her quiting her job.
> If she does not quit her job you are enabling the affair. This is willingly being dominated by another man. This is not just unattractive but repulsive. There is no working on your marriage until she quits her job and goes complete NC and goes through withdrawal. NC is broken everytime he contacts her about work. This is ABSURD. Worse than rug sweeping.
> 
> No point in any of what you are doing until you stand up as a man and tell her she must quit her job immediately. You should also expose them at the job. A boss banging one of his employees is unethical to say the least. An abuse of power.
> 
> It turns my stomache thatyour wife would be in love with such a sleaze bag. She will stay in love with her boss. Also she is there for him anytime he want have another bit. She is not going to have sex with you because not only is she not in love with you but she is staying faithful to the man she does love. DO NOT SETTLE FOR THIS. Youe are enabling this affair and working against your own best interests.
> *


I kinda tuned out of this thread when I saw that, and here was my response when the OP advised that her quitting her job was off the table:



> Why is that? I don't think you realize that as long as your wife and her lover are still in daily contact - even if the affair is "over" - there is no hope for you reconciling with her. I don't think you get it. *So I have to ask you - is the money worth losing the marriage?* Because the only possible silver lining in this will be that you may be able to get spousal support from her when you two eventually divorce.


----------



## Entropy3000

Mr335 said:


> I hear you about the duty sex/intimacy bonding, though I believe we were not only speaking about sex but also speaking about being "passionate". I will be sure not to stand too high on my pedestal to refuse affection, albeit a bit forced at first.
> 
> As for the reading, I could not find any of your suggested books locally so I did order via Amazon. I ordered:
> 
> No More Mr. Nice Guy (as suggested by turnera and others)
> 
> And your top 3 suggested:
> 
> *His Need, Her Needs*
> Love Busters
> Five Steps To Romantic Love
> 
> They should arrive sometime this week and then I will get right on the reading!


His Needs Her Needs. Great book. You will see that typically a mans needs start out like this :

1) Sexual Fullfillment -- This is exclusive sexual relationship and bonding.

2) Respect / Admiration

She is giving these to someone else.

Also one great thing about this book is the boundary setting. But you have already decalred she is going to keep working for the boss.

You are not ready for HNHN. This is great after the affair is over.

Undersand people are not trying to hurt you here. They are frustrated that you will not help yourself.

It is liking watching a puppy cross a busy highway. Heartwrenching.


----------



## Chaparral

Mr335, reread your thread. You have been in denial the whole time. Now, you can't understand that your wife is STILL in the affair. The reason she is telling you she wants to stay and work on it is to keep you in the dark. He doesn't wnat her for marriage, he wants her for sex. He isn't willing to leave his family for your wife.
She is fine with being his mistress. Although, she really thinks he will end up leaving his wife for her. No doubt he is experienced with playing women.

Invariably, when adultery is discovered, and the two spouses want to stay toghether and reclaim their marriage, they go at each othe like bunnies. When the wife is playing the husband........no sex.

He is her man, haveing sex with you is repulsive because she is a one man woman. Sex with you is cheating on her other man.

Spend some time reading other threads here. This script is played over and over and over.

You have little chance of saving your marriage and you will have to face that. Your only hope is to expose them and have him throw your wife under the bus. The only hope.


----------



## Chaparral

Started reading MMSLP ?


----------



## turnera

By the way, the fact that you 'allow' her to keep working with him? Sent you right to the BOTTOM of the heap of men she respects. She WANTED you to fight for her. All women do. And you failed miserably. You talked to her. Oh boy, I bet THAT got her shaking in her boots for you. So now she has decided to 'keep' you for your money and support, and get to keep smelling her OM and dreaming of her OM and ramping up the affair when you stop watching her like a hawk. 

Because she knows you're too weak to leave her.


----------



## AlmostYoung

chapparal said:


> You have little chance of saving your marriage and you will have to face that.


The first part is likely true, but marriages survive infidelity every day. Facing up to the fact that your present M is over is an important step to begin building a new one... with your present W.



> Your only hope is to expose them and have him throw your wife under the bus. *The only hope.*


According to Tamsters, anyway. There are quite a few successful marriage coaching programs that strongly disagree. You all really should get out more. 

For reconcilliation to last, it has to be because she wants it, _craves it even._ Strong arm tactics designed to force her to do what you want will not work, especially over the long term.

Mr335, I hope this is not the only place you are looking for guidance. If it is, I agree that your marriage is probably done.


----------



## Entropy3000

AlmostYoung said:


> For reconcilliation to last, it has to be because she wants it, _craves it even._ Strong arm tactics designed to force her to do what you want will not work, especially over the long term.


You have to kill the affair. Only after withdrawal can the WS begin to "crave" reconsiliation. They are in a brain chemical fog. Their judgement is impaired. It is an addiction. You either care enough to help them or you do not. The sooner this is engaged the better. If there is an inapproriate relationship that is turning into an EA, you can ask first and then tell them that this is unacceptable. You do not sit back and watch the affair progress. Best to fix problems when they are small. You do not sit back and watch a train wreck. You do not do things that enable affairs. That is unattractive. So great if the WS breaks this off. But one should not accept the affair to continue. It benefits no one accept the AP. Sharing your partner is not something in most peoples vows. Typically fidelity is.

Infidelity kills marriages. There may be an R. However, it is NOT he same marriage. That marriage died if the infidelty was allowed to prosper. Infidelity is a cancer, not the common cold. It is NOT something people should accept.

Successful means a healthy marriage for both partners. It does not involve periods of open marriage and humiliation for the BS. Just staying legally married in not success.
Harley addresses this with Plan A / Plan B. Plan A cannot be sustained without causing long term damage.

There are programs that say you should accept affairs, live in an open marriage until it runs its course. That this may happen after 18 months. How sophisticated.

No, TAM is about people maintaining self respect. Indeed there are websites that encourage a cheating lifestyle / agenda. A BS not taking a stand is great for the cheating agenda.

I am very sorry that you are going through a crisis in your marriage. But there is no excuse for sabotaging others marriages with this rhetoric. Indeed you are welcome to your opinion.


----------



## turnera

AlmostYoung said:


> For reconcilliation to last, it has to be because she wants it, _craves it even._


Very true.

And she will never CRAVE Mr335 while she CRAVES her OM. As long as she works with OM, Mr335 will be nothing but financial support and stability and appearance.


----------



## Chaparral

AlmostYoung said:


> The first part is likely true, but marriages survive infidelity every day. Facing up to the fact that your present M is over is an important step to begin building a new one... with your present W.
> 
> 
> 
> According to Tamsters, anyway. There are quite a few successful marriage coaching programs that strongly disagree. You all really should get out more.
> 
> For reconcilliation to last, it has to be because she wants it, _craves it even._ Strong arm tactics designed to force her to do what you want will not work, especially over the long term.
> Mr335, I hope this is not the only place you are looking for guidance. If it is, I agree that your marriage is probably done.


It isn't about forcing her to do anything. He can only control himself. The "strong arm tactics" are about killing the affair. Show us the links where a marriage can be saved while an affair is ongoing. Where the affair partners are in constant contact.

There is only a appx.15% chance of saving a marriage when the wife cheats. Appx. 45% if the husband cheats for about a 30 to 35% chance of saving a marriage after infidelity in the U.S., 50% in the U.K.


----------



## Mr335

AlmostYoung said:


> The first part is likely true, but marriages survive infidelity every day. Facing up to the fact that your present M is over is an important step to begin building a new one... with your present W.
> 
> 
> 
> According to Tamsters, anyway. There are quite a few successful marriage coaching programs that strongly disagree. You all really should get out more.
> 
> For reconcilliation to last, it has to be because she wants it, _craves it even._ Strong arm tactics designed to force her to do what you want will not work, especially over the long term.
> 
> Mr335, I hope this is not the only place you are looking for guidance. If it is, I agree that your marriage is probably done.


TAM is not my only outlet. We are in counselling both individually and as a couple.


----------



## Mr335

chapparal said:


> The first thing you need to read is MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. You can dowload it at amazon.com. good luck.


Does anyone else out there recommend or have an opinion on this book?


----------



## Mr335

FYI sex has always been a sore spot for my wife. Her sex drive is extremely low, quite possibly due to the sexual abuse in her past. The fact that she is cautious about intimacy is not surprising based on our relationship from the very beginning.


----------



## Mr335

I am listening everyone believe me. I know the biggest thing I need to do is grow some ba**s as my wife told me several weeks ago. 

Please give me a bit of time to digest it all...


----------



## anchorwatch

Mr335 said:


> FYI sex has always been a sore spot for my wife. Her sex drive is extremely low, quite possibly due to the sexual abuse in her past. The fact that she is cautious about intimacy is not surprising based on our relationship from the very beginning.


Then why was it easy to have sex with someone else? I think you need to reevaluate this idea? Then again that's what you're here for and in counseling. That's what all the reading is about too.


----------



## turnera

Mr335 said:


> I know the biggest thing I need to do is grow some ba**s as my wife told me several weeks ago.


See?

She told you the exact same thing I told you.

She WANTS you to be a 'man,' meaning that she wants to see the caveman side of you. Women say they want the man who helps around the house, takes care of the kids, but their primeval urges say otherwise. A man 'with ba**s' would have demanded she never see OM again. He wouldn't care how she did it - quit or get OM fired - but that would be HIS demand for HER to get to keep her husband.

MMSLP will teach you this exact thing. It's not about sex. It's about leading your family, growing your 'ba**s,' and showing your wife what you will and won't tolerate.

And I have seen at least a dozen men on this forum come back after reading it and say 'OMG, I can't believe I didn't read this sooner; it would have changed EVERYTHING.' And they usually say something like, 'If I HAD read it sooner, I'd probably still be married.'


----------



## keko

How often does she sleep with her boss these days?


----------



## turnera

anchorwatch said:


> Then why was it easy to have sex with someone else? I think you need to reevaluate this idea? Then again that's what you're here for and in counseling. That's what all the reading is about too.


 You need to remember that sex is an emotional thing for women. She can say no to you because she feels safe saying no - she isn't afraid you will leave her. When she meets an OM, she suddenly wants to PLEASE him, so she can KEEP him. So any past issues will magically disappear. Once the motivation is high enough.


----------



## AlmostYoung

> You have to kill the affair.


The affair is the symptom of the marriage problems, not the cause of them. Bombing everything including the road home often leads to D. (and a bitter one at that) In the end, only the cheating spouse can truly end the affair, not anyone else.



> There are programs that say you should accept affairs…


It’s not about accepting an affair. It’s about accepting the reality of what is. The reality that you have no control over another persons actions, only your response to them.



> No, TAM is about people maintaining self respect. Indeed there are websites that encourage a cheating lifestyle / agenda. A BS not taking a stand is great for the cheating agenda.


A BS not taking _your idea_ of a stand would have been a more appropriate choice of words. Just because a BS chooses not to expose, or throw down an ultimatum (at a time when it is likely to end the marriage) doesn’t mean he can’t set and hold boundaries, with consequences.

And I know of no marriage programs that “encourage a cheating lifestyle”. Please advise us of this strawman.

Look, I understand where you are coming from, and I don’t totally disagree with it all. Mr335 does need to man up, and take charge of his future. (MMSLP will help you with this Mr 335) 

More than one opinion/option is a good thing.

I just feel he can best do this by taking the focus off his wife, and putting it on his new life without her. For their marriage to work, she has to chase him. All the bombing and exposing in the world ain’t never gonna make that happen.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I've not experienced any infidelity in my own marriage or prior relationships. But, I question the logic of your first statement. I know some people believe that you have to wait out an affair so that the WS can discover on his/her own if the affair relationship is sustainable or not. However, this line of thinking fails to account for biochemistry and biology. The longer his wife is with this man and seeing this guy even from a distance, the chemicals will remain in the body and the feelings will become significantly harder to squelch. 

On top of that, this theory is a static model. It assumes that the BS can remain as is until the affair runs its course. The world we live in is dynamic, and his wife's actions are causing a chain reaction of other events and feelings to manifest themselves. So in the end, the WS may feel content that she saw this affair through and is ready to come back to the husband. Except...the husband is now long gone. I fail to see the utility of doing it this way.



AlmostYoung said:


> *The affair is the symptom of the marriage problems, not the cause of them. Bombing everything including the road home often leads to D. (and a bitter one at that) In the end, only the cheating spouse can truly end the affair, not anyone else.*
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not about accepting an affair. It’s about accepting the reality of what is. The reality that you have no control over another persons actions, only your response to them.
> 
> 
> 
> A BS not taking _your idea_ of a stand would have been a more appropriate choice of words. Just because a BS chooses not to expose, or throw down an ultimatum (at a time when it is likely to end the marriage) doesn’t mean he can’t set and hold boundaries, with consequences.
> 
> And I know of no marriage programs that “encourage a cheating lifestyle”. Please advise us of this strawman.
> 
> Look, I understand where you are coming from, and I don’t totally disagree with it all. Mr335 does need to man up, and take charge of his future. (MMSLP will help you with this Mr 335)
> 
> More than one opinion/option is a good thing.
> 
> I just feel he can best do this by taking the focus off his wife, and putting it on his new life without her. For their marriage to work, she has to chase him. All the bombing and exposing in the world ain’t never gonna make that happen.


----------



## anchorwatch

Mr335 said:


> Does anyone else out there recommend or have an opinion on this book?


I do recommend this book. It will show you dynamics of attraction.


----------



## Mr335

AlmostYoung said:


> The affair is the symptom of the marriage problems, not the cause of them. Bombing everything including the road home often leads to D. (and a bitter one at that) In the end, only the cheating spouse can truly end the affair, not anyone else.
> 
> It’s not about accepting an affair. It’s about accepting the reality of what is. The reality that you have no control over another persons actions, only your response to them.
> 
> A BS not taking _your idea_ of a stand would have been a more appropriate choice of words. Just because a BS chooses not to expose, or throw down an ultimatum (at a time when it is likely to end the marriage) doesn’t mean he can’t set and hold boundaries, with consequences.


Much of what you say is resonating with me. I do believe that an ultimatum in respect to my wife's job will end our marriage immediately. I also see the affair as a symptom of our marital problems not the cause. And I also agree that I do need to man up and take care of my future. And I will start doing that as of right now.



AlmostYoung said:


> Mr335 does need to man up, and take charge of his future. (MMSLP will help you with this Mr 335)
> 
> More than one opinion/option is a good thing.
> 
> I just feel he can best do this by taking the focus off his wife, and putting it on his new life without her. For their marriage to work, she has to chase him. All the bombing and exposing in the world ain’t never gonna make that happen.


Yes, more opinions is a good thing. The blurb online for MMSLP did not grab my attention but I will download it and start reading. It seems everyone's suggestions for books are nowhere locally so I either need to order them or download them... 

I will grow some ba**s. I am too nice and that's not what my wife needs to see from me right now. Thank you everyone. Your advice is harsh but well-intended. I will also speak in detail with my counsellor.


----------



## turnera

Try this:
http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/113_dating_advice.html


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> Try this:
> http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/113_dating_advice.html


Link did not work for me.


----------



## turnera

try to go to www.askmen.com and search for the title: A Real Woman Wants A Real Man


----------



## Chaparral

AlmostYoung said:


> The affair is the symptom of the marriage problems, not the cause of them. Bombing everything including the road home often leads to D. (and a bitter one at that) In the end, only the cheating spouse can truly end the affair, not anyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not about accepting an affair. It’s about accepting the reality of what is. The reality that you have no control over another persons actions, only your response to them.
> 
> 
> 
> A BS not taking _your idea_ of a stand would have been a more appropriate choice of words. Just because a BS chooses not to expose, or throw down an ultimatum (at a time when it is likely to end the marriage) doesn’t mean he can’t set and hold boundaries, with consequences.
> 
> And I know of no marriage programs that “encourage a cheating lifestyle”. Please advise us of this strawman.
> 
> Look, I understand where you are coming from, and I don’t totally disagree with it all. Mr335 does need to man up, and take charge of his future. (MMSLP will help you with this Mr 335)
> 
> More than one opinion/option is a good thing.
> 
> I just feel he can best do this by taking the focus off his wife, and putting it on his new life without her. For their marriage to work, she has to chase him. All the bombing and exposing in the world ain’t never gonna make that happen.


The glaring point of this nonsense is still your lack of sources. On the other hand, there are thousands of threads here for you to study.

Many people here have tried to do it the way you suggest. I have not seen one thread where it worked. Getting tough has a chance to work. The faster the better, as in shock and awe.

You are trying to suggeest talking ones way out of a mess. Literally, actions work better than words.

I fear you have already poisoned this thread by confirming the nice guy approach to a nice guy.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

If anyone knows the name of the poster who has not had sex with his wife in 3 years, but said that he had a plan that he was following to win back her heart, please post it here for the Mr335 to see. You're going down the same path.


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> try to go to www.askmen.com and search for the title: A Real Woman Wants A Real Man


Nope. Is it just me?


----------



## turnera

chapparal said:


> I fear you have already poisoned this thread by confirming the nice guy approach to a nice guy.


Which, of course, is why Mr335 JUMPED on your post and said it resonated with him. He doesn't have to step up and lead if he follows your example. He just has to STAY there.

Look, I am in NO way saying he should be a jerk or change from the quality, moral person he is. We just want him to become more educated in what attracts a woman and in the psychological effects in play when a woman cheats. It's not like a man, who is more likely to just want to 'get some.' Women stray because they want/need/seek attention/acceptance/interest. The sex is usually only a tool to keep the guy around, or else it is uncapped when she lets her inner tigress appear.

Nicing a woman back into her cage will do one thing: teach her to lose respect for you. And women HAVE to respect their man, before they can love him.

She has already said she's staying because she wants the MARRIAGE. Not the MAN. The MARRIAGE.


----------



## Entropy3000

Mr335 said:


> Does anyone else out there recommend or have an opinion on this book?


Yes. I used it for a very different reason however. I used it to help me bring more passion into my marriage.

But this also has content you need to read well beyond that.


----------



## Mr335

turnera said:


> Try this:
> http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/113_dating_advice.html


Reading it now. Thanks.


----------



## Mr335

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If anyone knows the name of the poster who has not had sex with his wife in 3 years, but said that he had a plan that he was following to win back her heart, please post it here for the Mr335 to see. You're going down the same path.


6 weeks isn't 3 years.


----------



## Mr335

FYI I have ordered the following books as to everyone's suggestions:

Five Steps To Romantic Love
Love Busters: Protecting Your Marriage From Habits That Destroy Romantic Love
No More Mr. Nice Guy!
His Needs, Her Needs
I Love You but I'm Not IN Love With You
Winning Your Wife Back Before It's Too Late
The Married Man Sex Life Primer

I also picked up a few books at the local store...


----------



## Mr335

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes. I used it for a very different reason however. I used it to help me bring more passion into my marriage.
> 
> But this also has content you need to read well beyond that.


ordered it


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Mr335 said:


> 6 weeks isn't 3 years.


No, I was serious, and it isn't a reference to you. There is a poster on here - I forget his full user name but people called him T3 - who has had a wife fall out of love with him. He hadn't had sex with her in about 3 years, and every year he says things would be different - he has a plan to win back her heart. In his situation, his wife had an EA with a guy from her gym. If I can find the thread(s), I'll post them. His situation reminds me of yours and I think it would be a good eye opener for your.


----------



## Chaparral

Download MMSLP now. Read it tonight. Everything will change.


----------



## Chaparral

Mr335 said:


> 6 weeks isn't 3 years.


Is this the 6 weeks she started have sex with her boss?


----------



## Mr335

Plan 9 from OS said:


> No, I was serious, and it isn't a reference to you. There is a poster on here - I forget his full user name but people called him T3 - who has had a wife fall out of love with him. He hadn't had sex with her in about 3 years, and every year he says things would be different - he has a plan to win back her heart. In his situation, his wife had an EA with a guy from her gym. If I can find the thread(s), I'll post them. His situation reminds me of yours and I think it would be a good eye opener for your.


Ok, thanks.


----------



## Mr335

chapparal said:


> Download MMSLP now. Read it tonight. Everything will change.


I couldn't download it, I don't own a kindle. I ordered it.


----------



## Mr335

chapparal said:


> Is this the 6 weeks she started have sex with her boss?


Constructive comments only please.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Mr. 335:

Take a look at this thread and any others made by the OP of this thread. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/60769-update-my-wifes-ea.html


----------



## turnera

Wow. I didn't realize he'd made another thread. So...he said



> in January I will re-evaluate where we are with sex, texting and general overall relationship. if it is still not where I need it her and I will discuss until we both agree on a solution.


and his last post here at TAM was 11/22. 

Which means he didn't get what he bragged he was going to get (a wife who actually CARED about him) by nicing her out of her affair, so he stopped coming. And he didn't dare take the risk of showing up here in January having to admit he had reached HIS so-called limit of no sex in 4 years and still not gotten any, because we all know - as does she - that he will never leave his wife. So sad.


----------



## AlmostYoung

Mr335, Here are a few sources: Michele W. Davis of Divorce Busting, Lee Baucom of Save the Marriage, and Mort Fertel of Marriage Fitness. All successful marriage coaches with decades of experience each, and not one of them advise what this board proposes. Why is that? Surely if it were so effective, they would support it, No?

At best, you hard-lining her now will convince her to reluctantly return with much resentment towards you, but it won't "fix" a thing, and she most certainly won't be in love, or necessarily even want to stay. At worst she'll say fine, and walk. If you are in a hurry for resolution one way or another, go this route. This board is littered with threads where the hard line approach didn't 'work' as promoted also.

If, on the other hand, starving off D and eventually building a new and better M with your wife is more important than attempting to force an immediate and insincere commitment out of her, at least check into a few other options and then decide what makes sense to you. Personally, I believe each individual case requires an individual "hybrid" approach. Not a one technique fits all like some seem to think.

Timing is everything. There definitely is a time to play hardball. Maybe for you that time is now, I really can't say.

I know of no statistics that prove one technique more successful than another. If there are I'd love to see 'em. Even if there were, we wouldn't know how any one technique would play out in any specific case.

You're in a tough spot. There are no quick fixes for where you are at. You must first decide that you don't need her and will be fine, _even better than fine,_ without her. Work on you. Don't focus on her, it keeps you stuck in pain and misery. Let her go.

Also, traditional MC has dismal results, even when both partners are in it. Plus, if one partner is in an affair, there's virtually no chance of it helping. I'd advise ending that until she gives you a commitment. You're just wasting time and money, and risking makes things even worse. A coaching program like posted above, (for YOU) will be more helpful to get you going in the right direction.

You've heard the boards opinion, and now one that's a little different. You have to decide what works for you and then make your move. Be strong, you can do this.


----------



## Bad_Wife!

I'm a female married to a "beta" man. I came across this thread because I'm not happy with my situation, and I went looking for info online to help me and my spouse. I registered just to contribute to this thread.

You, my friend, really need to start listening to the people here. The problem is, you don't want to listen. You're waiting for someone to come along and tell you what you WANT to hear so that you can feel good about yourself and what you're doing. It'll make it that much easier to blame everything on your wife when it finally ends in divorce.

You especially should be listening to turnera. She is telling you what your wife either can't, won't, or stopped trying to tell you a long time ago. She has no respect for you. She doesn't hate you or anything; all in all, she thinks you're a really nice guy. She feels guilty about not being attracted to you anymore because you're so nice. She probably thinks you aren't capable of being alone. She thinks that if she leaves you are going to fall apart, and, for the moment, she feels bad about doing that to you, especially after everything the two of you have been through.

Now, maybe you think this is a good way to keep her around, but this staying with you out of pity won't last forever. And it certainly won't make her want to have sex with you again. What women really want, especially strong and independent women, is a strong, competent man.

You want to know what one of my biggest problems is with my DH? HE WON'T CALL ME ON MY BULLSH!T. Like you, he doesn't set boundaries and demand respect for them. You aren't even willing to do that with your kids, let alone your wife. 

I'm going to give you some advice. You're not going to like the tone of it; perhaps you'll disregard it as not being "constructive" (READ: not telling you what you WANT to hear), but here goes:

You are being a spineless wimp by not demanding that your wife quit that job and end all contact with the OM. You are being a spineless wimp if, in the face of such an ultimatum, she decides to continue working there anyway and you do not file for divorce. She will never make any effort to keep you around (READ: have sex with you) because she knows you won't leave her. She also probably believes that you are unlikely to attract another woman because you are too much of a wimp. And she's right so long as you are unwilling to "man up".

If you really want to save your marriage you need to start being a strong, *capable* husband and father. Stop catering to your wife. Start calling her on her bullsh!t, and ferchrissakes, stop letting your kids walk all over you, too. It's pitiful.


----------



## keko

Is her boss the only guy she's having sex with or are there more affair partners?

You need to know what you're up against so find out how many guys and who they are.


----------



## Chaparral

Mr335 said:


> Constructive comments only please.


This was a serious timeline question.

The next oppurtunity you get, do not pass up having sex with her. And don't let it be vanilla sex either. It should be heart pounding, you're my woman sex. Make it memorable. And keep it going.


----------



## Mr335

OK everyone, I am taking it all in. I will give it all some serious thought. I have a private session with my counsellor tomorrow and will speak directly with her concerning much of this.

AlmostYoung - I really appreciate your fresh perspective. I will take your advice and check out other avenues of "coaching".

And I will continue to post this journey to the bitter end...


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Mr335 said:


> OK everyone, I am taking it all in. I will give it all some serious thought. have a private session with my counsellor tomorrow and will speak directly with her concerning much of this.
> 
> AlmostYoung - I really appreciate your fresh perspective. I will take your advice and check out other avenues of "coaching".
> 
> And I will continue to post this journey to the bitter end...


I only hope you don't spend too much time Trying To Figure It Out... Good luck tomorrow.


----------



## Mr335

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I only hope you don't spend too much time Trying To Figure It Out... Good luck tomorrow.


Thanks, don't worry I never stop thinking about this. Biggest problem is I keep changing my tactics. I hope to get some clarity tomorrow. I will come up with a solid game plan and stick with it!


----------



## happyman64

Mr335 said:


> Constructive comments only please.


335

Stop being a baby and act like a man.

Chap was not sending you a slap, he was asking you this for a reason.

Your reaction to his question shows how you deal with your wife.

God gave men balls for a reason, use them.

You will feel better about yourself.

HM64


----------



## turnera

The fact that you can't deal with people asking you about your wife sleeping with another man is a big sign of your fear of rejection. You'd rather take it out on us and run that river in Egypt than look at her cheating full in the face.


----------



## anchorwatch

335, 

How much daily interaction does your wife have with the OM?

What does she say about your concern with their inter action?

Does she minimize it? 

Does his family or their employment know of their A?


----------



## Mr335

anchorwatch said:


> 335,
> 
> How much daily interaction does your wife have with the OM?
> 
> What does she say about your concern with their inter action?
> 
> Does she minimize it?
> 
> Does his family or their employment know of their A?


She has very little daily interaction with the OM. A few days ago, when she did see him at work she could tell he was uncomfortable around her. The next day an e-mail was sent to the company saying he was taking a leave of absence and there was no indication when he would be coming back to work.

She knows about my concern with their interaction. Her new position allows her to work at home on occasion. She has been working at home 2 or 3 times a week lately. She has told me that she has been doing that for my benefit. So, yes she has definitely minimized her contact and now that he is on leave there is no contact.

I should also mention that there are 2 office locations and my wife tries to the best of her ability to work at one office while he is at the other. They will see each other but she is minimizing it to the best of her ability.

Employment does not know of the A. Neither my wife or I know if his family knows and as there is no personal contact there is no way of us knowing without asking him.


----------



## anchorwatch

Good news to here he's moving out of the picture. The sooner the better.

Then he's embarrassed about the situation or fearful enough of the exposure this would cause at work, to take leave or terminate his employment. 

He may be getting away from the situation before his family finds out. Or it maybe his wife has knowledge of the A. He may have informed her, as he can't know if you would inform his wife. 

Than again he maybe in love with your wife and is getting distance from her, because she indicted she is going to work on the marriage with you.

Whatever it could be, good riddance. 

Keep at it.


----------



## Chaparral

She told him you knew about the affair? Sorry if this has been covered, too many threads.


----------



## Mr335

chapparal said:


> She told him you knew about the affair? Sorry if this has been covered, too many threads.


She never told him I knew about the A. She just ended it abruptly. She highly expects that he knows that I am aware.


----------



## Chaparral

Things can get weird around here. Have you separated your bank accts. If he is taking a leave of absence, I hope they are not plnning on leaving together. When did you find this out?

Sorry, I do not mean to be pranoid but you would not believe what strange things have happened on these threads.


----------



## Mr335

chapparal said:


> Things can get weird around here. Have you separated your bank accts. If he is taking a leave of absence, I hope they are not planning on leaving together. When did you find this out?
> 
> Sorry, I do not mean to be paranoid but you would not believe what strange things have happened on these threads.


We already have separate bank accounts.


----------



## anchorwatch

That's strange in its self, that he would not know you've been informed of his involvement. Sorry I just assumed it.


----------



## Mr335

anchorwatch said:


> That's strange in its self, that he would not know you've been informed of his involvement. Sorry I just assumed it.


Both my wife and I really think he knows but neither of us are talking to him.


----------



## Chaparral

This is the first post from a wife who screwed up. familyfirst in one of the divorce sections. You might want to make a copy and let your wife read it.

*When the Walk Away Spouse becomes the Left Behind Spouse 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My story is probably very unique but im hoping its not too unique. 

I am a 39 year old wife and mother of a 5 year old girl. My husband and I have been together for 15 years. We never legally married but have lived together for almost the full 15 years. We were elementary school sweethearts and then met again later in life and fell in love.
We struggled with infertility and adopted our daughter when she was 1 year old. I thought our life was perfect.
then for some reason, I started to drift. Didn't know who I was, started questioning my purpose in life, and my marriage. I returned to an extremely busy job after my parental leave with my daughter. I became jealous of how my husband's life did not change at all after our daughter came along and mine did a complete 360. I was alone, bored, and had no friends outside of my husband and "his" friends.
When I returned to work I met some new friends, some were single and I began to spend more and more time with them. For the first time in a while I began having "fun". 
Long of the short is I lost focus of my relationship with my husband and put my work, my daughter and my friends first.
Over the course of 2 years I went to 3 different therapists to find out "what was wrong with me". I didnt understand why the thoughts of giving up my family were running through my brain. I did stupid things like stay out all night and started spending less and less time with my husband and I stopped showing affection and appreciation. We went to marriage counselling together but it didn't help, I almost felt like I was "too far gone" In April this year, I gave up and told him "I love you but im not in love with you anymore" I knew it was a lie but I didnt know what else to do. I cried for 4 days straight.
For the next 5 months we lived together, shared time together, laughed together and shared the same bed. I slowly started to feel like myself again.
However, I didnt realize that I was a too late. My husband had met someone else. someone who was boosting his ego and making him feel like a man again, something that I did not do.

So here it is almost 4 months later since my husband gave me the "I love you but im not in love with you" speak and I am heartbroken, miserable, sad and guilt written. 3 weeks ago he moved out of our home and in with the other woman.

I love him, I miss him and I want my family back together. He has told me he loved me but does not know if he could ever trust me not to break his heart again. Im reading Divorce Remedy and am fully supporting our daughter who he barely sees or has hardly spent any time with in the past 4 months.

My husband is sad, hurt, angry and confused. In a way, it feels like he is now going through his own crisis. He is not seeking any outside help. He has done many hurtful things and has said many hurtful words. But I feel I deserve them.

I am slowly coming to the realization that I cannot control his actions or make him come back home. this is something he needs to decide on his own. I am trying to give him space and time and also show him how much he is appreciated, loved, needed and wanted. He is the best thing that has ever happened to me and I truly believe we are soulmates. We have been through so much, including the adoption of our daughter, for it to be over like this.

So that's my story. Maybe some people will say I deserve to feel this pain and sorrow and he should never come back. I am hoping that some can offer advice and support.

does anyone see any hope for my situation?

Hugs to all who are living in this pain.*

Here is a link 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...k-away-spouse-becomes-left-behind-spouse.html


----------



## minimix

feel for you Mr335, you sound like a nice guy who doesn't deserve this BUT the following is what happened to friends of mine

couple, married 10 years, 2 children.
she had a good job, he gave up his job to start his own business which consequently failed so he ended up being a stay at home dad whilst she worked all hours.
he received a letter from one of her work colleagues stating that his wife was having an affair with her boss
he confronted his wife, she said it was just flirting and she had not actually had sex (oral sex yes) so she didn't consider it wrong!!
anyway after much discussion they decided to work on their marriage, but this is the crucial part..*she refused to change [/B]jobs, she said the affair was over...
well ..one year down the line.. the boss leaves his wife...my friend leaves her husband and 2 kids and they are now doing up a house together, posting pics on facebook etc and they have left behind a devastated husband and 2 kids trying to work out what happened!!*


----------



## AlmostYoung

minimix said:


> feel for you Mr335, you sound like a nice guy who doesn't deserve this BUT the following is what happened to friends of mine...


What does one particular case have to do with Mr335? 

I'll answer.

Nothing.


----------



## Mr335

Just a quick update, the private session with my counsellor on Wednesday went very well. It was so nice to talk so openly with someone _face to face_ (not to say I'm not appreciating everyone's advice here on TAM) It gave me some clarity on the direction I need to go and helped me to focus on what I need to do. I will provide more details later. 

Things are still stable with my wife although there was a bit of a setback a few nights ago:

We got into a big fight over nothing really (we all know that can sometimes happen). It was a pretty big fight and I was quite upset about the whole thing. I decided to exercise my right to look through her laptop. I mentioned earlier in this thread that the agreement my wife and I came to is that she told me all her passwords and I would not look at/snoop through anything of hers without telling her, though it would be at a moment's notice.

So at 2 AM in the morning, I woke her up while she was sleeping and told her I would be looking through her laptop. I did including looking through her browser history and there was nothing alarming. I actually thought I would never do that but I was in a bad space that evening.

Well it was a bit of a setback but the next morning all was back to normal (or as normal as things are these days) My wife said we should just forget that anything ever happened the night before. 

Anyways, we are going on a family vacation tomorrow (my wife and I and our 2 small children) and I will be away with no internet access for almost a week. I will speak with y'all when I get back.

Thank you everyone for being here.


----------



## happyman64

enjoy the vacation.


----------



## AlmostYoung

Hi Mr 335, thanks for the update. It sounds like you guys are in a good place. Keep doing what you are doing. 

I wouldn't worry about the set back, she's working with you... you can't ask for anything more.

Waking her up at 2am to look through her laptop seems like it could look a little desparate and insecure to her I would think, but I understand you did what you needed to do at the time. I'm not being critical, just pointing out how someone else could see it.

Maybe next time calm and convince yourself you can wait until everyone's up, and then make a brief search in a very relaxed, matter of fact manner... while she watches. Show her what a strong and confident man you truly are. Insecurity or jealousy is not attractive.

Being offline for a spell can be quite relaxing, especially when you've been posting your sitch on a board like this. That can get stressful... sometimes it's best to walk away for a bit.

Yes, enjoy the vaction time with your family!


----------



## keko

She works with her affair partner, why would she have anything on her laptop? She'd just wait to get to work if she has something to say or have sex with him.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks

Mr335 said:


> To clarify further, 6 weeks ago my wife told me that she loved me but no longer loved me in that way. She said that she was happiest when she was alone. She wanted to be alone forever.
> 
> Two weeks later I discovered the affair. Even though she told me she was in love with the OM, she maintained that she still wanted to be alone. If she left me it would to be alone, not too be with him. I admit that is a hard pill to swallow but those were her words and she still maintains that she would not leave me for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well what the hell did she do? She left you for HIM! That's exactly what she did. There is a bunch of smokescreening and lying going on in these cheaters.

It all makes sense to them and some of it they don't even know they are doing. They know you and what you will fall for, and if it's not intentional it's their mind doing it.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks

AlmostYoung said:


> What does one particular case have to do with Mr335?
> 
> I'll answer.
> 
> Nothing.


The case has a very similar situation to Mr335! The affair partners should not be in the same environment. The "boss" leaves or the wife gets another job. Too much tension in that environment.


----------



## tom67

DaddyLongShanks said:


> The case has a very similar situation to Mr335! The affair partners should not be in the same environment. The "boss" leaves or the wife gets another job. Too much tension in that environment.


Long term her staying at this job is not going to work at all but he thinks it will work oh well.


----------



## AlmostYoung

Agreed, that one of them leaving the job is best for the M. 

Mr 335 can explain to his W just how serious of an issue this is for the success of their marriage, and ask that the above be done. As long as he's been addressing issues in himself that need to be corrected, she will eventually comply. If he's still the same old H she wasn't feeling close enough with to not get involved in an A, then she may jump ship.

I don't think commanding that she quits will benefit the marriage.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks

AlmostYoung said:


> Agreed, that one of them leaving the job is best for the M.
> 
> Mr 335 can explain to his W just how serious of an issue this is for the success of their marriage, and ask that the above be done. As long as he's been addressing issues in himself that need to be corrected, she will eventually comply. If he's still the same old H she wasn't feeling close enough with to not get involved in an A, then she may jump ship.
> 
> I don't think commanding that she quits will benefit the marriage.


He needs to term it so that she could make that decision. Or she could air the affair to the office space and point out that it was a mistake. The rest of the office space would keep them in line.

However if he commands that she quits, it will help his self respect.


----------



## AlmostYoung

DaddyLongShanks said:


> He needs to term it so that she could make that decision.


Exactly what I'm saying.



> Or she could air the affair to the office space and point out that it was a mistake. The rest of the office space would keep them in line.


That's a darn good idea, I never thought of that. If she's serious about rebuilding the M, AND dead set on keeping the job, she should be willing to go this route.



> However if he commands that she quits, it will help his self respect.


This is where I disagree. Maybe some (weak) men need to boss their wife around to boost their idea self respect, but a truly confident and strong man never would.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks

AlmostYoung said:


> Exactly what I'm saying.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a darn good idea, I never thought of that. If she's serious about rebuilding the M, AND dead set on keeping the job, she should be willing to go this route.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where I disagree. Maybe some (weak) men need to boss their wife around to boost their idea self respect, but a truly confident and strong man never would.


Agree. I was technically saying it would provide an immediate gratification. It would be best if she chooses to do the right thing on her own accord, and part of that would be burning the bridge with the ex affair partner and full transparency to the husband.


----------



## anchorwatch

335, how was the vacation. Any time allotted for bonding?


----------



## TrustIsGone

I did not read all of the comments, but I have to say I debated not even commenting, bc I am not completely sure that you aren't my husband. Our situation is eerily similar to yours, it's just, I am the wife. I was shocked at how many folks assumed that there must be another man. I am not cheating on my husband but for the past 2-3 years, I have absolutely been going through the motions. Of course, we've dealt with a few EA's, which you can read about in my threads, but we're doing the best we can. I am doing the best that I can. So, like I said, it's not exactly the same as your situation, but eerily similar. If you'd ever like to talk, I'm here.


----------



## Mr335

anchorwatch said:


> 335, how was the vacation. Any time allotted for bonding?


Sorry, I just caught this thread. Thanks for checking in. 

It has been a good few weeks with actually two vacations. There has been some bonding, some ups and downs but mostly ups. I will post an update soon!


----------



## anchorwatch

Good news!


----------



## Mr335

The Bitter End

I said I would continue to post till the bitter end. Well the day has arrived. I discovered that my wife and her boss have continued the affair, emotionally as well as physically. She has moved out to her parents and I am staying in the house. It's over.


----------



## tom67

Mr335 said:


> The Bitter End
> 
> I said I would continue to post till the bitter end. Well the day has arrived. I discovered that my wife and her boss have continued the affair, emotionally as well as physically. She has moved out to her parents and I am staying in the house. It's over.


Sorry that's why she had to quit. Out that pos to hr at their work.


----------



## anchorwatch

Sorry, 335. 


I truly believe you are better off with out a person who can't be forthright with you. You deserve better. We all deserve better. 

You've been through a lot. Get up and dust yourself off. It's time to start your new and better life. 

Here are the 180 rules to follow. They will help you with your emotions and to detach from her. The version I linked you to is on a site I feel may help you too. 
180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group

Here is some reading material for you also. 
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Best wishes.


----------



## turnera

I'm so sorry. But I'm glad you found out, rather than being clueless to her savagery.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you out them? Why didn't she have to quit her job?

How did she react this time?


----------



## warlock07

I am very sorry on what's happening but..
For once listen to advice you get here. Don't trust your intuition just this one time. Expose her and her OM to both family, friends and at work. Then file for divorce and walk away. Your wife's behavior followed a cheater's script to the tee. Keep posting here so that you can advice during the divorce so that she won't totally destroy you financially during a divorce. Good luck


----------



## happyman64

warlock07 said:


> I am very sorry on what's happening but..
> For once listen to advice you get here. Don't trust your intuition just this one time. Expose her and her OM to both family, friends and at work. Then file for divorce and walk away. Your wife's behavior followed a cheater's script to the tee. Keep posting here so that you can advice during the divorce so that she won't totally destroy you financially during a divorce. Good luck


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Sorry 335 but your wayward wife and the OM need a dose of reality.

That is how you kill affairs. You expose them.


----------



## aug

Mr335 said:


> My wife and I have been together for the past 12 years and been married for the past 4 and a half. We have 2 daughters, *a 1 year old *and a 3 year old. Two weeks ago she informed me that she no longer loves me and *has been going through the motions for the past 2 years.
> *


I havent read all the posts in this thread so someone may had suggested this already...

Given that she is doing her boss, and she checked out 2 years ago, and the youngest is 1 year old, I would suggest you get a paternity test on the toddler. A DNA is test is cheap, about $100, and will buy answer a question for you. It'll suck if you had to support another man's child.


----------



## keko

Mr335 said:


> The Bitter End
> 
> I said I would continue to post till the bitter end. Well the day has arrived. I discovered that my wife and her boss have continued the affair, emotionally as well as physically. She has moved out to her parents and I am staying in the house. It's over.


Didn't we tell you this was going to happen if you didn't expose them?

Just as Warlock said, for once listen to us and expose them to everyone, family, friends, workplace, everyone! Right now!


----------



## tom67

aug said:


> I havent read all the posts in this thread so someone may had suggested this already...
> 
> Given that she is doing her boss, and she checked out 2 years ago, and the youngest is 1 year old, I would suggest you get a paternity test on the toddler. A DNA is test is cheap, about $100, and will buy answer a question for you. It'll suck if you had to support another man's child.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shaggy

It is well past time to expose at work AND to get a DNA test on your youngest.


----------



## tom67

Sadly 335 has left the building I think.


----------



## anchorwatch

tom67 said:


> Sadly 335 has left the building I think.


His post sounded determined. He did write he would post till the end and this was the end. Hopefully he is taking the steps toward a new life for himself and his children.


----------



## keko

I think he'll be back with how his wife now wants to work on the marriage and move back into the house. Of course while she still keeps her job.


----------



## anchorwatch

I don't think so keko. I think that ship left the dock. He was too proud and thought he had it different. He knows now.


----------



## Mr335

It Ain't Over

Hello again everybody. I did say I would continue to post to the bitter end and I _thought_ I had reached the bitter end but I was mistaken. Here's a breakdown of the past few months.

2 months ago I discovered my wife was still having an affair with her boss. I confronted her and she moved out of the house into her parents. We were officially separated, as in: no longer together. 

It went as amicable as these things can go. My wife planned to look for her own apartment while I stayed in the house. We agreed to share time with the kids equally amongst each other. 

I still felt strong feelings for her but realized that it was over. She was with someone else and I needed to move on. So I started thinking about myself and had even set up my first date.

Then 5 week's ago my wife asked if we could "talk". She realized that this OM was not the person she thought he was. She told me that by leaving me she realized what she had in me. She had left the OM and wanted to try and work things out with me _if_ I would give her another chance.

We talked for a long time and I couldn't deny that I still wanted to be with her. I agreed to try again.

My wife went to the owner of the company she works for and requested he separate her and her boss. She has been given a new position at a different location/city from her former boss so that they have no contact with each other.

The affair was the result of other problems in our marriage and those are what need to be fixed in order to make "us" work. There are a few things I discovered about my wife almost all of them stemming from poor self image.

Despite the fact that she is a beautiful and petite person she feels and has always felt that she is "fat and ugly". Some of the things I learnt was that in the 12 years we have been together she has always gone to bed wearing makeup. That is because she is afraid for me to see her without it. She has also been making her self throw up for years in order to maintain her weight. Even when she was pregnant with our 2 children.

I am always telling her how beautiful she is but she just can't believe it. It is frustrating trying to convince someone of something that their brain just refuses to accept.

My wife realizes that in order to fix our marriage she needs to start feeling good about herself. She needs to think that she is beautiful and not worry about what I think about her. She needs to be comfortable in her own body which she never has.

For that reason she has decided to move into her own apartment and work on fixing herself. We are "dating" now and pretty much see each other every day. I have keys to her apartment and sometimes stay over (with the kids) and sometimes she stays over at our house as well. My biggest fear is that she isn't getting that alone time she needs so I am attempting to give it to her. I was told time and time again on this forum that what I needed to do in order to win her back was let her go. I couldn't do that and the moment she left of her own volition she quickly realized what she had in me and wanted me back.

So that is where I am at now. I apologize that I did not post sooner but I really wanted to make sure that things were in a stable condition before giving everyone an update...


----------



## turnera

so what is she doing to improve her image?


----------



## Mr335

We are both seeing separate counsellors. I have continued on with the counsellor we were seeing together and she has a new counsellor.

As for what she is doing to improve her self image, I believe a big part of it is spending time alone. Learning to be happy with herself. Not worrying about what I or others think about her. She is working all that out with her counsellor. I think so much of it is how you think about things and your actions follow. I have always been a self-confident person and very comfortable in my own skin so it is a little difficult for me to relate.


----------



## LostViking

Are you sure shes alone? Sounds to me like she has a nice set up for having men over while pretending to R with you. 

Stay vigilant. Dont trust her.


----------



## happyman64

You are on some journey 335.

I think it is good that your wife is starting to come out of the fog, see the issues with her own self image and miss you.

But realize that your wife's issues are long term. If she is really honest with herself that is great. But in addition to her personal issues, she will need to figure out why she cheated on you?

Good luck and keep your eyes open.

No matter what continue to work on you. You will be a better man with or without her.

HM64


----------



## Mr335

happyman64 said:


> You are on some journey 335.
> 
> I think it is good that your wife is starting to come out of the fog, see the issues with her own self image and miss you.
> 
> But realize that your wife's issues are long term. If she is really honest with herself that is great. But in addition to her personal issues, she will need to figure out why she cheated on you?
> 
> Good luck and keep your eyes open.
> 
> No matter what continue to work on you. You will be a better man with or without her.
> 
> HM64


You are totally right about the "fog" I keep saying to her: "Where have you been the past 4 months?" It's almost like she was an addict and not seeing straight. She now acts more like the woman I married.

I have been and will continue to work on myself. I feel great about the changes I have made in my life and will continue to be this better person I have become.


----------



## Iver

Mr335, 

It's nice that there's light at the end of the tunnel for you...lets make sure it's not an oncoming train. (this is where you tell me your wife would never do that.)

Your wife is a liar and a cheat. Do not forget that and do not be in a rush to forgive her. (don't forget to get tested for STD's. Also demand she do the same and get the results in writing.)

Get a timeline. When it started, where it was, how long it lasted. All those times you thought it was over, get it in writing how she deceived you.

As for the POSOM, her boss. A wife? A girlfriend? Parents? Someone who you can notify what a POS he is? 

Remember, giving this man a pass devalues you in your wife's eyes. Dropping the hammer on him (getting him fired for example) will also make your wife be aware of consequences her actions (besides her husband getting kicked in the b*lls.)

You've been a nice guy so far. 

Think about what that's gotten you.

p.s. Have you read Athol Kay's MMSLP?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

You were her plan B. Good luck with this.


----------



## Iver

3Xnocharm said:


> You were her plan B. Good luck with this.


I hate to sound like I'm piling on here but my guess is when she wanted to move in with him she found out real quick that he was OK to fool around with a married woman but living with a woman with even part time child custody...no way.

Your wife discovered there's a lot of single guys who don't have a problem with fooling around with a woman with kids but wouldn't date them and would never get into a real relationship with them.


----------



## Mr335

Iver said:


> I hate to sound like I'm piling on here but my guess is when she wanted to move in with him she found out real quick that he was OK to fool around with a married woman but living with a woman with even part time child custody...no way.


He actually wanted to marry her. She broke it off and wanted to work on saving our family and marriage. In fact he was hounding her with texts and phone calls begging for her to take him back. I called the owner of the company and asked him to tell the OM to lay off as it was bordering on harassment. It has since stopped.

We are working on things, it's a long journey but we talk all the time. Even though she has moved out to get "some space" she is hardly at her place. So seldom in fact that I worry that she isn't get the alone time she needs to figure things out. Tonight is the first night in over a week she has spent the night at her place.


----------



## tom67

Mr335 said:


> He actually wanted to marry her. She broke it off and wanted to work on saving our family and marriage. In fact he was hounding her with texts and phone calls begging for her to take him back. I called the owner of the company and asked him to tell the OM to lay off as it was bordering on harassment. It has since stopped.
> 
> We are working on things, it's a long journey but we talk all the time. Even though she has moved out to get "some space" she is hardly at her place. So seldom in fact that I worry that she isn't get the alone time she needs to figure things out. Tonight is the first night in over a week she has spent the night at her place.


It sounds good for now just make sure she knows you have options through your behavior. Stay a little guarded for now but it sounds good so far.:smthumbup:


----------



## happyman64

335

I would be more than guarded.

If I was you I would verify where she is.

If she is supposed to be home then verify she is home.

She should do that for you. It s her responsibility to rebuild trust into your relationship.

She has already cheated on you twice with the same man.

Do not let it happen a 3rd time.

Make consequences known to her if there is another "slip up" with her ex boss.

You keep working on you.

HM


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## LostViking

I don't buy this alone time crap at all. 

You need to do som PI work. Sounds to me like all you did was give her a nice love nests to have trysts in. This smells.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr335

tom67 said:


> It sounds good for now just make sure she knows you have options through your behavior. Stay a little guarded for now but it sounds good so far.:smthumbup:


I will, thanks.


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## Chaparral

LostViking said:


> I don't buy this alone time crap at all.
> 
> You need to do som PI work. Sounds to me like all you did was give her a nice love nests to have trysts in. This smells.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If it looks like a cat but has a white stripe down its back, its not a cat. Its Pepe Le Pew and its after your wife.

Er, no wait, if it looks, walks and quacks like a duck, its a duck.


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## r0r0bin

Any updates?


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## Mr335

Things _had_ been going well in my mind. We were talking more, being intimate again and it was feeling good. I mentioned that I felt she wasn't taking that alone time she needed as she was always at our house and never at her apartment Sometimes as long as 10 days or more without going to her apartment.

Today she broke down in tears. She says she still isn't happy. She feels she is still doing things to make other's happy at the expense of her happiness. She still feels that if she could turn back time she would never had gotten married, had never have had kids and would live alone in an apartment.

She really hasn't had this alone time she needed to think things through. She left me and realized fairly soon that she missed me and the kids and our life _although_ she also really wanted to be alone.

It is complicated but I encouraged her to do what she needed to do - be alone. I know that she must be alone for awhile without me e-mailing her to see how she is doing, texting her goodnight, etc... If she has this alone time and does decide that she really does want to be alone then as sad as that makes me feel, then that is what has to happen. If she decides she wants me and our family then great, but this must happen.

I am sad and we will see each other but I will step back and let her make her own decisions.

We wil also continue to see our counsellor together.


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## turnera

I'm proud of you. You did the right thing.


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## AlmostYoung

Hi 335, I think you’re doing as well as you possibly can in this situation. She has to figure this out for herself. You can’t do it for her, it doesn’t work that way.



Mr335 said:


> Today she broke down in tears. She says she still isn't happy. She feels she is still doing things to make other's happy at the expense of her happiness. She still feels that if she could turn back time she would never had gotten married, had never have had kids and would live alone in an apartment.


This is how she feels now. It can, and most likely will, change, but it will take her plenty of time to get there. There is no quick turnaround from where she’s at right now. You certainly don’t want to force her to go through the motions of re-commitment when she’s not ready. That will never end well for your marriage. 

Continue to cut her loose and avoid relationship talks. Let her initiate them. Concentrate on yourself and enjoying your own life. You don’t need her to do that.

You can always bail at any time, that is your choice. I get the feeling you're in this for the long haul... as you should be.

EDIT: I was in the wrong hall!


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## Mr335

Thanks for the words of encouragement AlmostYoung and turner. Yes it is what has to be done. I will keep updating as things move along...


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## r0r0bin

335, how foolish you gave her second chance and now you see the b**** is acting now. She deserve anything worse


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## 3Xnocharm

Whoa, WTF was that??


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## SurpriseMyself

Mr335 said:


> Sometimes I suppose... She says she has been pretending to be happy for several years. I would say she comes across more angry than depressed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Many people who are depressed but don't feel that can safely open up about it will instead be angry.

And if she never really loved you, then the only place to start is to start over. She needs to be completely and totally separate from you, find herself, and then you two may have a chance to fall in love. For you, it will be for the 2nd time. For her, the first. Or not at all. That's the risk, but that also offers both a chance at reward. If it doesn't work out, she isn't living an unhappy life. Well, at least she can't say she's unhappy with you. Whether she can really be happy solo is another matter. 

Good luck.


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## Mr335

Thanks, I will keep all that in mind/perspective.


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## anchorwatch

335, Has life improved?


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## Apples123

To me it just sounds like she's asexual and aromantic. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with her, that's just the way she is.


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## anchorwatch

Apples123 said:


> To me it just sounds like she's asexual and aromantic. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with her, that's just the way she is.


Apples, 

Have you read the thread? 

She was or still is having plenty of sex. 

Just not with her husband. 

It was with her boss.


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## LongWalk

Hello 335,

How are you doing?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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