# Living in Limbo - help!



## Crabbe (Nov 14, 2017)

Hi all,

Posted this yesterday, but no replies so trying again.

Thanks so much in advance for any advice. Here is my story.

About two months ago I got a text from my husband (not legally married) of 16 years saying that "he had to end things" and was too scared to do it in person. I first thought he was on drugs or someone got a hold of his phone. Anyway, convinced him to come home and talk. He said that although there are many things right in our marriage, he has had a "gut feeling" that he has been repressing for years that there is "something or someone else out there" that he needs. And he feels he can only get that by separating. He was under a lot of stress at the time and said that things just finally broke. That he couldn't go on any longer. He says that I check off everything on his checklist otherwise.

I had NO idea this was coming. Our marriage wasn't bad by any means. He would come and kiss me when I walked in the door. We were still having sex. We make each other laugh. We've been through a lot together with parents dying, etc. We are both about 40.

I did what you are not supposed to do and begged and pleaded for him to stay. He agreed reluctantly to go to therapy after his trip to Turkey which was scheduled one week later. While in Turkey he had a sexual affair with a woman. They had sex the whole time and without protection. He claims to have had a spiritual experience with her having sex in a bathhouse. He says that this experience gave him a sign that he is supposed to leave. He says this affair didn't mean anything, but he is still in touch with this woman to give her updates of where he is at. He also says he had a vision of a woman like her since he was a child and wonders if he is supposed to follow that vision.

Essentially he believes that his rational mind and spiritual mind are divided and it is time to follow his gut. He has never been spiritual before. He knows he is having a mid-life crises, but he says that doesn't discount what he feels. He also wonders if he is just seeing into things too much.

I was crushed. He talked about wanting to stay and wanting to leave. He says he was confused and was trying to sabotage the relationship by the affair. I gave him permission to leave several times, but that I think we could still have a happy marriage. That this could be a transformation. He agreed to take it one day at a time and go to therapy, but he was still feeling very much like leaving. I gave him some space and went to a friend's house for a few days.

In the next week we argued a lot. He almost left several times. We've also had some mature conversations. I am very jealous of this woman and questioned his feelings for her a lot. He says she is still a friend which is why he is still in touch with her. He also won't delete photos of her (which I haven't seen thankfully) because these are still memories.

A few weeks later here is where we are at: he has gone to one therapy session on his own, but that was just him explaining everything to the psychologist. We are arguing less and actually having some fun together - going hiking, laughing about our dog, watching movies. We are cuddling when we watch movies. We have slept in the same bed together twice after a few drinks. No sex. He got an STD test. He has agreed to continue with therapy and recognizes it may take some time. He is starting to talk about some issues in our marriage and I now see that yes, there were things that I missed. Things that need fixing. He has kissed me (just on the lips or head) a couple of times out of his own choice. He talks about plans for Christmas. 

So, I guess compared to the start, there has been a lot of progress for the good.

At the same time, he says he is still very unsure that he even wants to try. At times he acts very distant. He says he told the other woman that he would contact her in the New Year with an update. He says he loves me, but is unsure he is in love. He says he sees that I am making changes which is good, but he needs time.

I am so very hurt by all this. Additionally, about 4 months ago I wanted to quit my job to work on our business more. He was supportive of me doing this. Now, I have no job to go to and am stuck at home all day. I find myself just sitting here and wallowing. It drives me crazy when I don't know where he is. The marriage advice I read says to go get on with your own life, but it is hard with no money and no job. I also have no family where I live which makes it harder. I have friends who have been really supportive, but it is not the same. I've been going out more, going to the gym, etc, to survive but it feels so hard to do anything. 

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to go through. It is so hard for me to live with uncertainty. Everyday I try to work on the relationship a little. I know that I am probably pushing too hard. I am trying to take things one day at a time, but not knowing your future is so hard. We had a great life, had a great shared business, friends, everything. I can't imagine another life. A better life. We really had it all, or so I thought.

I am working at getting a job and seeing a psychologist on my own. I am owning up to my behaviors that may have affected the relationship.

Am I delusional in thinking that things can be worked out despite his "gut feeling"? Should I not let him cuddle me, etc.? Should I leave and give him some time? Or should I continue being his best friend through all this?

Also - what is the 180?

Thanks again.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Crabbe said:


> About two months ago I got a text from my husband (not legally married) of 16 years saying that "he had to end things" and was too scared to do it in person. I first thought he was on drugs or someone got a hold of his phone. Anyway, convinced him to come home and talk. He said that although there are many things right in our marriage, he has had a "gut feeling" that he has been repressing for years that there is "something or someone else out there" that he needs. And he feels he can only get that by separating. He was under a lot of stress at the time and said that things just finally broke. That he couldn't go on any longer. He says that I check off everything on his checklist otherwise.
> 
> I had NO idea this was coming. Our marriage wasn't bad by any means. He would come and kiss me when I walked in the door. We were still having sex. We make each other laugh. We've been through a lot together with parents dying, etc. We are both about 40.
> 
> ...


I think you will get more responses if you have your thread moved to Coping with Infidelity. You can ask a moderator to do that for you.

In the meantime, your partner is a cake eater. He's got his sexy Turkish Bathhouse girl and then he's got his loving long time partner at home. All of your actions so far indicate you are happy playing the "pick me" game and guess what? he's loving ever minute of it. I mean what man wouldn't love having two women adoring him? He's the freaking pasha sitting on his pillow watching the wrestling match between the two women vying for his attention. If you are content continuing the game, then by all means keep doing so. However I do not think you'll like the results.

If you want to have any chance at salvaging your relationship then you have to be willing to lose it. You will have to put on your big girl panties and do things that will make him angry. Are you willing to do those things?

MW Davis 180


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## Crabbe (Nov 14, 2017)

Thanks Lila. He actually said that this woman has no expectation and that she is herself in a relationship that she is trying to figure out and doesn't necessarily want him. But I see what you mean. He still has her as "back up" and I have confronted him about it. He agreed to end all contact, but still has yet to do it.

I have done some things to make him angry, but he has always been the type to fight against that sort of thing. It seems to distance him further. So far, I find I make the most progress (him opening up and acting more lovingly) when I act kindly and listen to him. Maybe I am just not ready to put on big girl panties.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Crabbe said:


> Thanks Lila. He actually said that this woman has no expectation and that she is herself in a relationship that she is trying to figure out and doesn't necessarily want him. But I see what you mean. He still has her as "back up" and I have confronted him about it. He agreed to end all contact, but still has yet to do it.
> 
> *I have done some things to make him angry, but he has always been the type to fight against that sort of thing. It seems to distance him further. So far, I find I make the most progress (him opening up and acting more lovingly) when I act kindly and listen to him. Maybe I am just not ready to put on big girl panties.*


I can't say that I agree but you need to do what you need to make you happy. 

However, I will tell you that you cannot "nice" him back. It doesn't work, at least not long term. He'll just cheat on you again the next time he feels like it. That's just the truth. 

Good luck.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Play hs ass until you can get another job. Then disappear from his sordid life. Let him fantasize his life away with someone dumb enough to take a chance on his cheating butt. He’s a loser.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There is a book that I think will give you a lot of insight into how to handle this: "Surviving an Affair".

The books talks about 2 stages of dealing with a cheating spouse. And yes, your husband is still in an affair. In his mind he is still involved with the other woman. It suggests two stages: Plan A and Plan B - see the link in my signature block below for this.

In Plan A, you work on yourself and become a better person and better spouse. What you have been doing so far is basically Plan A and you have been doing it for some time now. It's suggested that women do Plan A for about 2 weeks. So you have done Plan A for long enough. The reason you cannot do Plan A for too long is that it becomes a life style and it actually encourages the wayward spouse (WS) to continue the affair. Why? As @Lila said in her post above, he's loving having two women fighting over him. He has two women meeting his emotional needs and he's drunk on all the attention.

Look at it from his point of view. He is cheating and thus mistreating you, and what are you doing? You are catering to him. What a deal for him. Not so much a deal for you however.

So now it's time for Plan B. The 180 is essentially Plan B. That's where you pull away from him. You starve him of you meeting his needs. You give him a taste of what not having you in his life will be like. And you continue with Plan B/180 until he ends the affair. If and when he ends the affair and recommits to the marriage, then there are things you can of together to rebuild your marriage into a stronger one if you still want that. And if he does not end the affair, you will be stronger because of Plan B/180 and will be ready to move on with your life.

{Note: If you do ever get to the point of him re-committing to the marriage and you still wanting to reconcile, the books for that are: "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs"- the links are in my signature block below.}

Please get the "Surviving an Affair" book and read it. Do what it says to do. It works. And you can continue to post here and we can all help you with it.

I have some questions, how old are you and your husband? And do you two have any children? If so how old are the children?

Now about your job, you need to get a new job. You being stuck at home all the time right now is very bad for you emotionally and financially. Is there any chance that you can get your old job back? Start job hunting. 

You say that you have friends, start planning social things with them. Start not being home when your husband is around. Get busy. Join a gym and start working out. Go get a make over - new hair style, even a new hair color... new clothing, whatever you need.

Another question, you husband has a business and I suppose he has an income. Why don't you have access to any money right now? Does he control the money to the point that you have no access?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, I want to move our thread to the Coping with Infidelity forum (CWI), but won't do it until you post that you are ok with that. You will get much better support there.


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## Crabbe (Nov 14, 2017)

Thanks all.

EleGirl, yes please move it. 

We are about 40, no children, two dogs. He works and we own a business together. I was working up until June. Can't get my old job back. I am "self-employed" with our business. The plan was to expand the business, but now that is sorta out the window. 

Just to be clear he is not in regular contact with this woman and said that he would only touch base with her in January to let her know where things are at. I confronted him a couple of days ago about this and he recognizes that he needs to end it. He understands that he is holding on mentally. But he still hasn't done it. Should I ask him again?

We split finances 50/50. I am in ok shape for a while with savings. If we do split up, my spousal support will be significant for a while. 

Thanks for the book suggestion. I will go get that.


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## Crabbe (Nov 14, 2017)

Is the book by Willard F. Harley?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Are you really sure you want to keep this relationship with an unremorseful cheater?

As Lila said, he's a cake eater, and it looks like he knows exactly what things to say and do to keep you on the hook. All his emotional, spiritual, internal conflict...barf. I also would not be shocked if his Turkish side piece isn't the only one. You already know he has had one affair on you, and you have opted to reconcile. You have more than enough reason and justification to be done with him, and your head held high, so don't forget that. He is the one in the wrong, and at this point, he should be bending over backwards to do everything to rebuild your trust in him, and his abilities to be a good faithful and trustworthy partner. It doesn't sound like he has done anything of the sort.

Just out of curiosity, and not to be implying anything or suggesting anything or anything else that could possibly be misconstrued...What are the reasons you and him have not gotten married? Your idea or his?


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## Crabbe (Nov 14, 2017)

It was my idea. I thought our love was so strong we didn't need an official ceremony or anything. I also didn't want a big, expensive wedding either and with his family, that was what was expected. We both thought we could get on just fine without the marriage part. I regret that now.


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## Crabbe (Nov 14, 2017)

So do I tell him I am doing the 180 or just do it? What do I say if he asks me why I am being distant or what is wrong?

Tonight I went to sleep at a friends house and didn't tell him. He texted and messaged me all concerned about where I was. When I didn't answer he actually called so I let him know. How far do I take this? Do I tell him where I am?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Crabbe said:


> So do I tell him I am doing the 180 or just do it? What do I say if he asks me why I am being distant or what is wrong?
> 
> Tonight I went to sleep at a friends house and didn't tell him. He texted and messaged me all concerned about where I was. When I didn't answer he actually called so I let him know. How far do I take this? Do I tell him where I am?



Total selfishness hes not sure blah blah blah.

Give him the cold shoulder. Tell him your not sure either . 

Tell him your thinking about trying some strange . That you need to level the playing field.

Tell him either hes in and vested in your marriage or get the **** out!


Eaiser said than done .


Good luck


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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

..


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Crabbe

I'm not even sure how to start to tell you what you need to do. Understand this though, right now you have no husband, spouse, or best friend. Your husband is a selfish, arrogant *******. You do need to 180 and you need to do this hard. Tell him nothing, nothing about you, only talk of your joint business. Find out who the other woman is, then find her on social media, then contact her spouse if she has one. 

Next, take money from your joint account and visit the top three divorce lawyers in your area. Be sure to meet with all three, the initial consultation should be free. Hire the one who is most like a shark. Why visit three, to be sure he gets a lawyer worse then yours. When you get home, move all his crap into another bedroom. I would recommend to clean the toilet with his toothbrush and then put back in the cabinet, but you might think I'm going a little too far. So instead pour fox urine into his cologne bottle. Ok, I'm kidding.

Next you should begin to tell his family and friends. Let them tell him what an ass he is. Your husband has zero remorse, and if the other woman didn't want him, then she wouldn't want an update in January, would she. What your husband is doing is called cake eating, it's your job to put ex lax in it. That one I'm not kidding. In fact, oh never mind.

If he will go to therapy, and going once isn't going, he needs to go alone. So do you, and that's so you can become healthy to make a decision from strength and not emotion. Do not be jealous of this other woman, bathhouse women really aren't such a great prize in today's world. Be strong, be firm, take no crap from this excuse of a man. In fact tell him he is a poor excuse of a man, then tell him that you will contact the other woman to establish no contact since he's too weak. 

You say your husband saw this woman in a dream during his youth. That may be one of the dumbest excuses I've ever heard. I don't mean to be harsh or rude, but criminals I face have better excuses. 

As for the spiritual connection he had in the bathhouse, tell him not to push so hard when taking a crap as it sends less blood to the brain. Or maybe treat his affair just like the bathhouse and pull the drain plug, then flush twice to create distance between you two.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Please, stop believing anything he tells you. 

Please don't think things he has told you are true. They aren't. He is lying to you. Cheaters lie. And lie, and lie.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

Take a read on this short thread on the 180. This guy had questions, too. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/#/topics/68594?page=1
Remember, you don't have to be cold, just diffident. If he asks you what's wrong, just tell him what comes to mind. You're feeling off or ill or down or whatever. Or tell him nothing's wrong.Then walk away. It's hard to do the 180. Good luck!


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## Crabbe (Nov 14, 2017)

Thanks. It is hard! 

Today I was ignoring his texts and he called to ask if something was wrong. He said the responses I did send were cold. I just said this living in limbo is really hard and left it at that. I know he saw a counsellour yesterday and I asked them how that went and he said ok, that he is still processing. I wonder what the heck that means, but won't push. I don't know how well I can do the 180. I guess doing it a little is better than none at all?


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## Crabbe (Nov 14, 2017)

Hey RideofmyLife - that link does not lead me anywhere.  Not sure how to tag you either!


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

Crabbe said:


> Thanks Lila. He actually said that this woman has no expectation and that she is herself in a relationship that she is trying to figure out and doesn't necessarily want him. But I see what you mean. He still has her as "back up" and I have confronted him about it. He agreed to end all contact, but still has yet to do it.
> 
> I have done some things to make him angry, but he has always been the type to fight against that sort of thing. It seems to distance him further. So far, I find I make the most progress (him opening up and acting more lovingly) when I act kindly and listen to him. Maybe I am just not ready to put on big girl panties.


You need to hear what these responses are telling you and take it to heart.

The best advice I got when my husband and I were separating was this: don't respond based on what he says - respond based on what he does.

Your husband says he loves you and that he will go to therapy. Yet, he want to have a back up. He says he will cut off contact from the woman he had sex with "the whole time" he was in her country, but he does not do it.

He is coming up with all kinds of convoluted explanations (rational side in conflict with spiritual side) as to why you should understand his dilemma of wanting to search for his soulmate, boff other women, and at the same time have you not be mad at him. IT IS BS.

He wants to have his cake and eat it to AND he wants your blessing while he does it.

You need to stop talking to this man. Stop kissing. Stop touching, cuddling, listening, drinking, hiking, laughing and stop being his best friend. If you husband wants a friend to support him through his infidelity, then he is going to have to go out and find one himself. YOUR HUSBAND IS USING YOU for comfort while in the next breath he tells you he has a soulmate out there somewhere and that soulmate is not you. 

No Christmas plans. No mutual time with the dog.

Yes, you should leave, but not to "give him time". You should leave to give YOU time to create a life and heal. This is not something you are going to decide on together. Go get a job and leave him in your dust.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crabbe said:


> Is the book by Willard F. Harley?


yes


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crabbe said:


> So do I tell him I am doing the 180 or just do it? What do I say if he asks me why I am being distant or what is wrong?


You need to get the book and read it. 

Note that with the 180 you are to act cheerful when you do talk to him. You just avoid talking to him as much as possible. 

You do nothing with him. Do not sit down and talk or have conversations with him. Do not do things like eat together, watch TV together, etc. 

Do not sleep in the same bed with him. Perhaps you could move his stuff out of the master bedroom and tell him that he now sleeps in another room.

If he wants to have a relationship talk with you, tell him that until he sends his girl friend a no-contact letter (see the book) there is not relationship to talk about. You have to read the book about this because there is a protocol to follow about the no-contact letter.. you have to be involved in him sending it. He can send it via email but again, you have to be there. The book explains the wording that the letter must contain.

"Until you end all contact with her and commit 150% of our relationship, there is no relationship to talk about." Then smile big and walk away.



Crabbe said:


> Tonight I went to sleep at a friends house and didn't tell him. He texted and messaged me all concerned about where I was. When I didn't answer he actually called so I let him know. How far do I take this? Do I tell him where I am?


Nope, you do not tell him.

He called.. you could have just not picked up the phone. 

You can tell him that you are now living your own life since he will not end contact with the other woman and commit to your relationship. go out and do things as often as you can. Get busy. Have fun.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

After you read the book, you would do well to tell him that he really needs to move out since he's cheating, unrepentant, and has not committed to a relationship with you. And that you cannot promise that you will wait for him as you are getting on with your life.

And if/when he moves out, do a very hard 180 and go no-contact. You will only talk to him when he agrees to sending the no contact letter and reconciliation. Then then you will consider if you still want him in your life.

In situations like this, he will not take you seriously until he knows that he is going to lose you if he does not get his head out of his posterior pretty darn quickly.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Crabbe said:


> Thanks Lila. He actually said that this woman has no expectation and that she is herself in a relationship that she is trying to figure out and doesn't necessarily want him.


Sounds like they'd be perfect for each other.

I'm trying to understand... Did he tell you he was done before this trip to Turkey? Because if so, I'd suspect he was banging her (or another woman) well before he went on that trip.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Also, stop telling him how you're feeling. He doesn't care. All he wants to know is whether he still has an emotional hold on you or not (this is cake eating). Even if he does for the time being, act like he doesn't. 180 means you carry on in happiness and show with actions that you do not need him to survive. Do not talk and tell him things. Show him things.


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## SpicyGinger (Nov 18, 2017)

You are delusional. Married 14 years but not "legally married?" There is your answer, dear. You want to be married, he doesn't.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Agree with all the posters here. There have to be consequences, he has to find out what it will be like without you in his life period. Get your ducks in a row, he is basically using you and you are letting him. Staying in your friends house and not contacting him etc, is not doing the 180, it is just playing games, hoping he will notice and chase after you.

Detach Detach Detach. Go get your own IC., go see a lawyer, as his common in law wife you probably have certain rights. Stop letting him control the scenario, you should be the ones calling the shots. Kick him out of the house for a start. Giver yourselves 3 -4 months and let him know you may not want him back ever. He has to see what he had done to your relationship, he has nuked it.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Crabbe said:


> Thanks. It is hard!
> 
> *Today I was ignoring his texts and he called to ask if something was wrong. He said the responses I did send were cold. *I just said this living in limbo is really hard and left it at that. I know he saw a counsellour yesterday and I asked them how that went and he said ok, that he is still processing. I wonder what the heck that means, but won't push. I don't know how well I can do the 180. I guess doing it a little is better than none at all?


Does he have no self-awareness? "Is something wrong?"

What an anal orifice.


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## Crabbe (Nov 14, 2017)

So I told him he had to leave tonight. I said no contact with this woman or I'm out. He tried to wheel and deal his way back in - "but I got the STD test" and "but I'm going to therapy like you asked." I told him that I was not going to wait for him to figure his **** out any longer without seeing concrete progress towards mending the relationship (i.e. cut off all contact to this woman).

He hasn't left yet. He said that he doesn't have to leave the house and that I should leave (we rent our house). He is legally entitled to stay here. What should I do? What if I have to stay living with him over the next few months? -I guess the 180 applies?


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

Elegirl gave great advice. And yes, I would continue the 180. I would still try to get him to sleep in another room, though. Don't cook for him or do his laundry, don't clean up after him, etc... Act like roommates the best you can. And stick to what you told him. He needs to go no contact before reconciliation is even a twinkle in your eye. 

The 180 will really help you to detach emotionally, especially if you are forced to live with an unremorseful cheater.

I'll have to look at the link I sent you. It may have originated from the private forum which you wouldn't be able to see unless you have 30 posts.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So, @Crabbe, your husband's timeline is like this:-

As a child 









he had a dream about his fantasy woman









Then he saw her










And they then had sex in a bathhouse And it was all 









And now he is confused









So, what do you do next? You go all 










And dump him and his weird fantasy world!


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## PiaMia (Nov 19, 2017)

Hi, it sounds like your choices are 1) work it out and always remembering that he cheated without regarding to your feelings and without shame or 2) get a new job and open yourself up to a new life and possible new love who isn't an apathetic space cadet. Sorry, but his behavior makes me angry. He's got his cake and eating it too, and I don't feel that he deserves you, and he's not learning consequences for his actions with you letting him snuggle with you and having you by his side supporting him in his hurtful, selfish, careless decisions.


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