# 2-faced. Children @ stake



## Smackdown (Feb 21, 2011)

I will be as honest as possible and it is not a lie when I tell you my x was a good mother, she was the best. 20yrs later she changed, she is no longer the loving, careing mother she once was.
She cheated many times, she changed from the faithful woman she once was.
She filed for divorce once she couldn't be justified for having her BFs.
I was removed from the house and left the 4 kids behind.
I have taken every day possible w/ them except when I had posin ivy. I've fought for every single holiday possible.
I was going to fight for custody but was told it cost like $20,000 + another $20,000 when she decides she wants a second opion. I'm dead broke and my lawyer told me the children can decide when the children are over 14........3 of my kids are over 14. No brainer right? Today he tells me they don't have a say-so where they live..he tells me she's going to get them all. I KNOW FOR A FACT 3 WANT TO LIVE W/ ME!!!
I live in Indiana, what is the law? @ the end of the divorce are the children asked? Is there a time when they get to say "HEY, mom's a whack job, we need stability"??
Mouse


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

I read your post and made an account so I can reply because I went through that.

There is no specific age cut off for when the children can make their own decision as to which parent they live with, the older they get the more the courts take their wishes into account and that can vary by state, and even by the judge.

In my state, once the kids are over 16 short of any abuse allegations they're going to pretty much be given the green light by the courts to pick their favorite parent, but at age 14 they're still going to be given a lot of consideration.

Unfortunately it's not just about what they want and you have to build a strong case and to do that you need an attorney and to get an attorney you need money.

That's where the system sucks. It's not a matter of what is right or what is best for the kids or what they want, it's about getting a good attorney and spending lots of money.

Truth is you'd be lucky to get away with 40,000 bucks on a protracted custody battle especially if there's an appeal which I think is what you're getting at with that "second opinion" stuff.

If you were removed from your house with an Order of Protection you're going to have that over your head as well and you're going to have to fight each and every allegation in there that pertains to you possibly being an unfit parent or a danger to your kids if the wording is in there and if she's got a good attorney you know it is.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

i would imagine you could spend some time googling it. pa. the age is 12


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

67flh said:


> i would imagine you could spend some time googling it. pa. the age is 12


What does that mean?

Are you trying to say that in the state of Pennsylvania that if a child is 12 or older they can choose which parent they want to live with and the courts will abide by their wishes just like that?

I doubt it.


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## Smackdown (Feb 21, 2011)

What I need to know is this, If she wants custody and I want custody do we need to "battle" over it OR @ the end of the divorce do they ask all children over the age of 14 where they want to live.?
I was not removed b/c I was violent or even angry she just asked for the house while the divorce was going on.
Every day that passes my children show more and more signs of fear of her....they have been telling me more and more they want to be w/ me, they don't want to go home.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

Smackdown said:


> What I need to know is this, If she wants custody and I want custody do we need to "battle" over it OR @ the end of the divorce do they ask all children over the age of 14 where they want to live.?


The only way to avoid a protracted and expensive custody battle is if both parents agree on custody. If the parents both want custody then the children's wishes will be taken into account to varying degrees depending on their ages and other factors including who was the primary caregiver, history of any abuse, or things such as alcohol dependency or drug use, that sort of thing. 



Smackdown said:


> I was not removed b/c I was violent or even angry she just asked for the house while the divorce was going on.


Well lots of guys, including myself are removed from our homes against our wills because of bogus Orders of Protection filed by spouses who have attorneys who have learned to use legal methods originally designed to protect the parties, as tools to be used against innocent men (and women) to gain an upper hand in divorce proceedings.



Smackdown said:


> Every day that passes my children show more and more signs of fear of her....they have been telling me more and more they want to be w/ me, they don't want to go home.


Well, that may prove useful during what appears to be an upcoming expensive and protracted custody battle. Don't be surprised if your ex accuses you of poisoning the children against her.


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## Smackdown (Feb 21, 2011)

hisfac,
Thanks, ur no help! lol (just kidding, I appreciate ur advice) please don't be offended, I was looking for a better answer not the right one. lol I understand what ur sayin but I was looking for a GAL that was free for poor people. What do they do if you can't agree and there isn't any $$$$ for the GAL? I've been searching on line w/ no luck. The X has thought about running off before and leaving us all behind...she has also considered getting pregnaunt by another guy so she'll get more $$$ for the house payment. I'm in a pickel.
Thank God I have him for my lawyer! The one I pay is dumb as a rock!
Mouse


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Smackdown said:


> What I need to know is this, If she wants custody and I want custody do we need to "battle" over it OR @ the end of the divorce do they ask all children over the age of 14 where they want to live.?
> I was not removed b/c I was violent or even angry she just asked for the house while the divorce was going on.
> Every day that passes my children show more and more signs of fear of her....they have been telling me more and more they want to be w/ me, they don't want to go home.


You will have the best luck if you go for 50/50 custody. That should not cost much to fight for.

If you are going to 100% physical custody you need a lot of money.

No the courts do not ask kids where they want to sleep. I heard a judge say one day in court "Only gorillas decide where they sleep at night. Children sleep where I tell them to."

If a child gets their own attorney, a guardian ad litem, then the court might listen to the guardian. But in the end if you and your ex cannot come to an agreement on custody, a judge will decide for you.

I can tell you what happened in my case. We ended up with 60/40 custody. Yes I spent over 20K just on the custody battle because my ex wanted 100% and fought. IN the end the judge gave him less than I was originally willing to give (50/50). 
When my son was 15, his father who was always verbally abusive, threw some things at my son as an expression of anger. My son called his older step-brother to come get him. 

That was the last time my son spent the night at his father’s house. From that day on my son has slept at my home. He’s 23 now. He has a much better relationship with his father now but will not stay there. He sees this father once or twice every week to dinner or other social time. 

My ex did not go back to court to fight when my son decided to no longer stay at his father’s. It gets a bit hard to tell a kid who is over 6ft tall where to sleep at night. He was not quite as big as a gorilla but he was getting closer in size.

Your custody fight is probably hurting your children more than if you just went for 50/50 custody. It's painful for children to watch their parents fight over this. Perhaps you could save the money and use it to do good things with and for your children


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Smackdown said:


> What I need to know is this, If she wants custody and I want custody do we need to "battle" over it OR @ the end of the divorce do they ask all children over the age of 14 where they want to live.?
> I was not removed b/c I was violent or even angry she just asked for the house while the divorce was going on.
> Every day that passes my children show more and more signs of fear of her....they have been telling me more and more they want to be w/ me, they don't want to go home.


What percentage of time do your children spend with you?

By the way. It is not unusual for kids to tell each parent that they want to live with whichever parent they are with at the moment. 

If your children are afraid of their mother, teach them how to dial 911. If she hurts them they can call for help. Then there will be something to back you up for having more than 50% custody.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

sorry hisfac. your wrong, been there done it.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

A judge is not going to render a decision without requiring you to first attempt to work one out under a mediator, court appointed. your wife will have to fill out the same financial affidavit as you will in order to resolve the assets. 
There are ways to make an "agreement" seem awful good compared to a judge rendering a decision going by state laws. Find where this route will be the most uncomfortable and use this information to get her to work with you on a settlement.
No lawyer is going to be able to circumvent your or her rights as a parent or as an ex spouse. What are her main buttons? Financial? Time with kids? 
Being that those kids are as old as they are, I cant imagine them making life over at moms house that good if they want to be with you. I have a feeling one way or another youre going to see a lot of them. Her restricting your involvement in their life will only serve to build resentment in them towards her. 
Hang in there man, not all is lost. Get online and look at your rights under state family law, and work from that. Show her what allowing a judge to render a decision will cause that isnt in her best interests.


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## Smackdown (Feb 21, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> What percentage of time do your children spend with you?
> 
> By the way. It is not unusual for kids to tell each parent that they want to live with whichever parent they are with at the moment.
> 
> If your children are afraid of their mother, teach them how to dial 911. If she hurts them they can call for help. Then there will be something to back you up for having more than 50% custody.


I get one day a week and every other weekend. I have taken every single extra minute I can by playing "TAXI DAD", going to school functions, and doing projects w/ them as they need. I take their phone calls any time and always text back asap. The X may have custody w/ them but she doesn't do things w/ them...just like when I was married, she'd only pay attention to the oldest, her "GOLDEN CHILD". She has a bad addiction to the computer, she's on it 10hrs a day....the children know this, I'm not sure if she still does but when I was in the house she would spend all the time on line.
When my kids are here, I or my GF cooks w/ the girls in the kitchen....well sometimes they shop or get their nails done and the boys and I work in the garage on projects for the science fair, woodworking projects or go to gun shows. BY afternoon we sit down and eat, clean up and watch a movie before bed. The boys and I also cook/clean. If time allows we will play a game but church is early Sun morn so we don't stay up too late. The "golden child" goes home to mom on Sat @ 11am...they can't stand to be away from eachother for very long. The "scape goat" is so much fun, I hate to even call her that but she has spent her life being put down by mom and the GC...her, the boys and I will do TIE DYE, make cookies, play games, shop, or just sit around and talk about life  Pricless


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

67flh said:


> sorry hisfac. your wrong, been there done it.


What exactly am I wrong about, that you've been there and done?

You've gotten sole custody of your kids because they told the court they want to live with you?

If so, all I can tell you is that every situation is different and it's all about what the parties are willing to settle for. 

I recently went through a custody situation with my 15 year old daughter. She wanted to live with me, the exwife didn't argue the point and we stipulated to it and got it done for under $2000 in legal fees. 

Then she changed her mind a year later, wanted back to mom's, I fought it, I ultimately lost because the courts pretty much give a child at that age almost full discretion, and that was about $30,000 in combined legal fees, and the better part of 4 months back and forth to court.

Even with the same parties, the situation can vary as can the outcome, the expense, and how long it all takes.


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