# Single father vs single mother



## Lon

Wondering what everyone else's take on single parenthood is... My ex and I have 50/50 custody of our son on a 2-2-5-5- basis, and I don't know too many other fathers out there that take on the parental responsibility of shared custody, but it must be becoming the norm?

The divorced men with kids I know generally just have every other weekend visitation and it seems like they have so much more flexibility and freedom to manly things, such as devotion to their career, working longer harder hours, earning more, and more time for hobbies and rec, plus it seems like when they have their children they have more energy to devote to them.

I do have one friend who also has shared custody of his daughter, and to me he is fine where he is at but doesn't have the same kind of aspirations. He is also a "niceguy" and sometimes been accused of being gay, and from my perspective he certainly takes on a motherly role with his daughter - way too much estrogen there...

Meanwhile I see mothers that are very successful at balancing all the dynamics of single parenthood? Are women just better at this?

This thread is spurred on in part by seeing how successful my ex's business is doing, seeing her vast and growing amount of contacts and friends merging and they all love her, she has a number of employees and yet still seems to have boundless energy with our child.

I had a great weekend with my son, took him camping, and it was a lot of work but rewarding, until I got home and have just had one of the most emotionally difficult days ever. He just wears me down so much and I'm trying to figure out if this is a gender thing or just me. I find it so hard trying to keep this all going, and really am considering if it is in the best interest of everyone for me to ask her to take custody and just have visitations, because as much as I love my son I just don't have the joy I wish I felt. Part of it is my own emptiness but I don't want him growing up in the toxic environment I feel my life is turning into.


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## that_girl

I dunno...my ex and I took on an arrangement a bit like yours. We each had to 1/2 the week. He was very competent in taking care of her and I was damned if he was going to be a "Disneyland Dad". He either raised her with me, or didn't. He did a great job.
*
I don't know if women are better at it, it's just they have to do it...they usually have no choice*. I know a lot of men that "play dumb" about what to do with the kids and the wives allow it. When we had our 2nd, my husband at first was like, "i don't know what to do!" and I said, "Figure it out". lol. I would have no problem leaving him alone with our children for a couple of days.

YOU CAN DO IT. You can raise your child. Don't give up on that. My dad was a weekend dad for a while (before disappearing completely) and I hated it. My mom hated it too. Why shuld your ex have to do all the real parenting when you just get to play on the weekends? The week sucks! Baths, homework, school, lunches, etc. You can do that too. 

Children wear EVERYONE down. That's not because you're a man. Sometimes being a parent sucks. lol. It does! You have to be "on" and you can't stop until they go to sleep...why do you think women like to "get out" often? WITHOUT children? 

Keep trying...you'll find your groove. It is ok to say no to your child. It is ok to say, "Dad needs quiet time...and so do you, buddy." It's ok.


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## SunnyT

Maybe some people DO just handle it better. Alot of moms are used to "doing it all" as far as the child rearing is concerned. Also, I think (and it's just my opinion) alot of moms are good at wearing a "mommy mask".... that looks like she is in control. And then feel beat down when the kids go to bed. 

It could also just mean that you are in a slump, mentally and physically. That happens. But it's on YOU to figure out how to get OUT of it. 

I wouldn't give up any custody. BOTH parents are so important! I would spend non-custody time getting out of the mental/toxic environment. Look into divorce/single parenting support groups near you?


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## Lon

to be clear, I've been pulling most of the child rearing load the past 2 or 3 years (he's 5 now)... and when we agreed to 50/50 I actually felt like I got so much of my own time back (but still can't seem to make the switch back and forth efficiently). This is what I am wondering about: balancing out all the other parts of her life.

For me, being a dad is all I've seen myself as, it is the only thing I'm focussed on, I have also somehow lucked out and kept my job, but I am a useless turd at work, spend more time at TAM then actually working. My ex on the other hand has honed her dancing hobbies, her business and made so many friends, her network is growing and growing and she is flourishing, seems like all those aspects including parenting, are integrating and making her life appear to be so meaningful and put together, she seems to have overcome all her challenges including a failed marriage. Now I could be wrong about her emotional state (whether she is fulfilled or not) but I doubt successes like that are hurting her self esteem (her self esteem seems miles beyond where it was a couple years ago).

Whereas men in general and definitely including myself, as most women will attest to, are not great at networking or social planning - all the guys I know (except my one emasculated single dad buddy) rely on their wives to plan their social life. They all grumble and complain, but I can see how much they love their Wives for it. This is what my comment is really about, because single childless guys usually have no issue taking what they want from life, family guys all seem so one-tracked mind, but without the joy of the reward it just feels like slavery, parenting seems to always suck. I am hoping it gets easier as he gets older, but I always have, and certain things do get easier as they are more independent but my frame of mind is still stuck holding the diaper bag it seems.


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## that_girl

I'll tell you this, Lon...almost all of my friends have 2 or more children and almost all of them break down weekly and cry because parenting is HARD.

You're doing a fine job. On your days off from being "dad"...go be Lon.


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## Lon

that_girl said:


> I'll tell you this, Lon...almost all of my friends have 2 or more children and almost all of them break down weekly and cry because parenting is HARD.
> 
> You're doing a fine job. On your days off from being "dad"...go be Lon.


Yes I break down and cry on a regular basis because of the hard parenting work... and this is why I wonder if shared coparenting is so much harder on a man's identity than a womans, it seems socially acceptable for a woman to shed emotional tears, but men are supposed to be strong protectors are they not? It is not strong for me to be sobbing 2-3 nights a week, it feels like it is taking away my masculinity somehow.

I respect everything you are saying TG, I like some of your advice, and am definitely working at being me when I'm not in daddy mode... but I'd really like to hear the opinion of other single fathers on this subject too.


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## EleGirl

Single mom really means a woman who was never married to the father of their child.

I was a divorced mom from 1995-2000. My son was with me 60% of the time. At that point in my career I was manager of the software department of a fortune 100 company.. we were doing software for satellites, aircraft controls, etc. I had 10 direct reports and many more indirect.

It was really very easy. I worked a lot of hours when my son was with his dad. So I worked as few hours as possible when my son was with me.

My office was also in a building that they would let me have my son in. So I set up a play area for him and bought him a portable TV. He had a sleeping bag too so he could lie down, read books, watch TV, etc. He’d come to work with me on weekends and evening when I had to be there. He loved it.

I invited a lot of his friends over to play with him and do sleep overs when I had to take work home. At times I also had a college girl who stayed at my home to help. At another time I had a babysitter/nanny who picked up my son and his friends. She took care of them after school until I got home and the friend’s mom was able to pick them up.

We went swimming at the gym/spa almost daily. 

My weekends were spent with my son, his friends and their moms doing things like museums, hiking, etc. 

Of course my husband (son's father) was in medical school and then residency most of the time after we adopted our son so he was never really home. So I parented on my own most of my son's life.

Once we went to 60/40 time I had more free time than I had in years.


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## EleGirl

What I found hard was when I re-married.Then we had 3 kids S10, SD10 adn SS 12. My husband traveled a lot of the time and he left me to take care of his kids and everything else. Then he lost his job and took up video gaming for the next 10 years (seriously that is all he did) and even dumped the finanical support of him and his kids on me.

His children were so angry that they were hard to deal with. We could no longer do social things because those two would get in fights and cause trouble everywhere we went. And their dad was of no help at all.

That was hard. And yes in those years I used to break down an dry a LOT>


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## that_girl

Maybe you'd get more responses from men if this was in the Men's Clubhouse.


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## Lon

Elegirl, you are maybe proving my point that women are just better at managing everything else in life around their parental responsibilities...

Who I really want to hear from is a successful masculine man.


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## that_girl

I will say that I wanted to leave my daughter with my ex and just visit her once a week for the first year after our split. I just couldn't handle it. But i didn't...because "Mother's don't do that." But...in all honesty, I was a wreck as a single mom a lot. It's stressful!

Ok...I'm done! I am also interested in what men say.


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## EleGirl

Lon said:


> Elegirl, you are maybe proving my point that women are just better at managing everything else in life around their parental responsibilities...
> 
> Who I really want to hear from is a successful masculine man.


I have always heard that women are very good at multi-tasking. Men are not.

Multi-tasking is essential for child rearing and doing everything else that needs to be done.


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## EleGirl

LON,

I can tell you how my husband handled child rearing when he had full custody of his children before he married me. He was definitely a real man type at the time.. Rambo was his nick name for a reason.

He worked the graveyard shift. He relied on his teen aged adopted daughter (his first wife's daughter from her first marriage) to co-parent.

When we were online chatting he always said that he had to go flip the laundry... well after visiting him I came to believe that flipping the laundry to him meant not taking it from the washer to the dryer but instead going to the laundry room door and flipping it off. The pile of undone laundry was enormous. He could not keep the house up. He could not ever get a meal on the table at a decent hour.

He just could not do it. But his wife ran off with her drinking buddy and left him with 3 kids on his own. He did the best he could. 

He has no multi-tasking abilities at all. He’s brilliant but cannot multi task.


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## that_girl

Since you posted in the men's section, I'll say this one last thing...

There is NOTHING emasculating about a man raising his children. Holy crap. It's not "weak" or "unmanly" to be a good father to future adults. I mean, what will you tell your son when he's older and wants to know why you were only around on weekend? Because you wanted to seem manly?  I'm just bustin your balls...but honestly...you are be manly as hell, and still play with your kids, or raise them on a daily basis. 

And maybe...maybe you just don't want to do it for a while. Maybe you want a 'vacation'..and that's ok too...Sometimes the guilt eats at us...I mean, who likes being away from their children?! I know I sure do. Doesn't mean I don't love them. Maybe you just need a little break for a while to regroup and stuff. No shame.

And also, don't think for a MOMENT, that women don't go through the same issues with balance. When children are little, and you're doing it 50% or 100% of the time, you do lose a bit of yourself. I had to put up many things that I enjoyed as an individual because my child came first. It did get easier as she got older, but even then, my money went to her needs, not my hobbies. Balance is key to life, but is hard to find the groove a lot of the time. 

MANY of my friends, well MOST of my friends (female) complain about losing themselves and not feeling like 'women' because they are mom, wife, housekeeper, etc...Women are not just these things before children! We also struggle with balance. 

I guess for me, it was realizing that I brought this little person into the world and it was my duty to raise her...my life was put on hold and that was ok. It was the acceptance of that which made it much easier for me. But it was also easy when her dad had her for me to do my own thing on those nights.


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## YinPrincess

My brother is a single father - he has raised his son essentially on his own since birth. He has juggled a career with the Coast Guard, fatherhood, a divorce with his exW - who moved her boyfriend into their apartment while they were still married and refused to help with her son - he is simply amazing to me! My brother has overcome all of this, and even in spite of his ex's behavior, still tried to legally adopt her first son, (not his), so that his son could know his brother and grow up with him. My brother is an extreme "niceguy" - he would break down a LOT. He would call me, or mom or sis... He had it so hard... I really felt for him..

His wife doesn't have custody of her first son as she has been deemed too mentally ill to care for him. (She is severely histrionic).

During the brief time they were married, he would get up at the buttcrack of dawn to pack up his son and ride the bus with him to drop him off at a daycare, then ride the bus to work, work 8 or 9 hour shifts, then ride the bus back to daycare to pick up his son before going home. He really deserves a medal for his commitment and devotion. Instead of pawning his kid off on the wife and risk her loosing him, he stepped in and fought for custody, (awarded 100%). He still makes time for his exW and her first son to visit and spend time with his son. (He is now 2 1/2).

Me - I am a SAHM for now - and I find it EXHAUSTING!! Since I don't have a job that earns me any kind of income, the 24/7 care of my daughter and the household - all the cooking, cleaning, pet care, EVERYTHING falls on me. I'm still trying to work out a routine where I can get everything I need to accomplish done... LoL!! At times I feel like a single parent with a live-in paycheck. Sounds cold, but it's true. I feel so overwhelmed all the time... I cry A LOT. Too much. Even though I am not a single parent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

that_girl said:


> There is NOTHING emasculating about a man raising his children. Holy crap. It's not "weak" or "unmanly" to be a good father to future adults. I mean, what will you tell your son when he's older and wants to know why you were only around on weekend? Because you wanted to seem manly?...


It never felt that way when there was some semblance of a family unit, I always loved the idea of having two parents sharing the load - my ex always felt that the world was against her though. I always thought she was wrong, that is was only her attitude that was making it so difficult for her because her accusing me of not pulling the weight was so untrue. Part of the reason I had to write this thread is to hopefully get some insight into my own attitude right now, cause it does feel like the whole world is against me for some reason.

So I guess I am second guessing myself too much. As to my role as a father, I suppose there is nothing emasculating about that at all, mostly just that I can't seem to focus on anything else in my life, I'm scatterbrained, emotional, and not very driven at all.


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## that_girl

You sound like me, in the beginning, Lon. 

It also sounds like you're in a bit of a depression (which I was too). You've gone through a LOT in this situation and it's only natural to feel this way. 

Just do what most parents do and truck on through it. Kids get older so quickly and you really don't want to miss out on their young life. Time is so precious. Crying is NOT emasculating when it's about things like this. It is stressful. It is demanding. It is sometimes like you're in a whirlwind of sorts. No one has the answers, no one is born with a manual. Raising children is hard and for me, my patience is always tested. But...at the end of the day (especially when I was single and raising my daughter), I was proud of myself for giving my all, even when I didn't feel I had the strength. 

Perhaps you are still in mourning for your situation? The transition from family to single-dadhood is sad. Things that may be not a big deal may be blown out of proportion because you may be thinking, "This should be a two-person job!" And then the sadness comes in.

This too, shall pass. And in the end, you'll have a good, solid man that you've raised. Teach your boy how to be a man. Do manly things with him. He's 5, right? get some wood and build shet! Teach him how to fish. if you can, buy an old car/machine and fix it up with him. If you don't know how to do these things, learn together. Five year olds are smart. He's your boy  Someday he'll be a man and he'll say, "I had the BEST dad. He taught me so much."


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## golfergirl

I felt the freedom. I tasted it! Kids were 16 and 13 and darn it - started all over with 2 more! Haven't read a book in 4 years. My husband works shift so parenting falls to me probably similar to a single parent. I miss my hobbies! My youngest is 20 months (yay today) and he is busy! Climbing, eating, destroying - you name it - he's in it! I'm older than you and I'm friggen tired sometimes. Plus I'm trying to learn a new job. But I still find extreme joy in my life. Chubby little arms to hug me and booger kisses. Sparkly day care art. My day will come. When my 20 month old is 4 like the big one, there is more freedom.
I too don't have a great support network. My friends kids are old like my first batch. I don't know what to tell you. Could you be depressed? Like chemically?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

hey GG, two separate waves of kids, crazy! (my ex's father remarried and they adopted, atleast you are not raising toddlers in your 50's! judging by your avatar though I'm sure you are not that much older than me).

I know what you mean about missing the hobbies, that's what it feels like to me, that everything always comes second but because I'm so overwhelmed with number one there is nothing left for the other. I see some people succeeding, atleast using the fact that they are out there trying new things smiling as a measure. There are nice little moments I have with my son, I was out towards your way camping for two nights and he had a pretty good time, showed him how to build a fire, he seemed to not care too much about anything except for getting his hands on the junk food (marshmallows and bear paws, lol). it was actually relaxing which is rare, then after getting home it got stressful... so maybe its just my home that is triggering me like this. And yeah it is probably chemical, and it has been this way pretty consistently for the past 2 or 3 months so I think I'll see my doc, cause I gotta get out of this funk somehow - I also started a new job (same company) and I should be way more excited about it than I seem to be...


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## golfergirl

Lon said:


> hey GG, two separate waves of kids, crazy! (my ex's father remarried and they adopted, atleast you are not raising toddlers in your 50's! judging by your avatar though I'm sure you are not that much older than me).
> 
> I know what you mean about missing the hobbies, that's what it feels like to me, that everything always comes second but because I'm so overwhelmed with number one there is nothing left for the other. I see some people succeeding, atleast using the fact that they are out there trying new things smiling as a measure. There are nice little moments I have with my son, I was out towards your way camping for two nights and he had a pretty good time, showed him how to build a fire, he seemed to not care too much about anything except for getting his hands on the junk food (marshmallows and bear paws, lol). it was actually relaxing which is rare, then after getting home it got stressful... so maybe its just my home that is triggering me like this. And yeah it is probably chemical, and it has been this way pretty consistently for the past 2 or 3 months so I think I'll see my doc, cause I gotta get out of this funk somehow - I also started a new job (same company) and I should be way more excited about it than I seem to be...


I know batsh!t crazy am I! New means stress. I came back from mat leave to 'new' job. I just learned that and bang - our office is specializing. It is new and exciting - but with that is uncertainty and stress.
My 4 year old is extremely reactive to sugar and being tired. If he eats sugar or I miss the tired window - he enters the point of no return! Bouncing off the walls - lippy - your basic devil. Pay attention to that with your son if he gives you grief at home.
I'm older than you by far lol.
Hope you didn't get eaten alive by bugs! Late start but they are out full force!
Find a teenage sitter! Mine helps with boys when I run errands and clean. She tires them out allowing me time because they crash asleep at 7:30! They are a god send.
I do remember with wave one thinking at start of summer holidays, 'welcome to the first day of the longest two months of your life' lol. So ya I guess I've been there too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

golfergirl said:


> ...Hope you didn't get eaten alive by bugs! Late start but they are out full force!


Yeah we loaded up on deet... it wasn't actually that bad where we were, surprisingly though Saturday I must have missed his right arm cause today its chock full of bite marks. Poor kid, was frantically scratching making it worse, and he would barely let me put anything on to help - wouldn't even let me do the x's with my fingernail.


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## Lon

3leafclover said:


> ...Action could be your saving grace. If you're like me, you probably feel worse sitting around thinking about acting and much better after actually acting.


yes, agreed, its just getting started that is always so hard, once I'm out doing its usually so invigorating, but all the planning and prep that seems to be par for the course seems to be really dampening the spontaneity.


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## costa200

> Are women just better at this?


Yes, because they train for it since childhood. Compared to them the average man is an amateur.


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## LovesHerMan

I understand what you mean about single fatherhood being so hard because the many men do not perceive their identity as revolving around fatherhood, as women do around motherhood.

Do you think that you are trying too hard to be the perfect father? That you are so wrapped up in not making any parenting mistakes, you are exhausting yourself thinking that you have to be a model father.

It would be good to assemble a support system of baby sitters or sharing child care with other single parents. You take their child for several hours on a weekend night, and they reciprocate the next weekend.

You are still grieving your divorce; be kind to yourself. Ease up on the impossibly high standards that you have set, and take action to create a support network to share the demands of child care.


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## Lon

lovesherman said:


> I understand what you mean about single fatherhood being so hard because the many men do not perceive their identity as revolving around fatherhood, as women do around motherhood.
> 
> Do you think that you are trying too hard to be the perfect father? That you are so wrapped up in not making any parenting mistakes, you are exhausting yourself thinking that you have to be a model father.
> 
> *well, no I am making tons of mistakes, I'm no model father at all, and it feels like its about to all fall apart, I wracked with guilt about it though.*
> 
> It would be good to assemble a support system of baby sitters or sharing child care with other single parents. You take their child for several hours on a weekend night, and they reciprocate the next weekend.
> *
> This is the challenge for me, I have a couple other parents that like to do this, and say they want to but they are all always busy with their own plans, nor ever call on me. I'm just not meeting parents looking for this nearly fast enough*
> 
> You are still grieving your divorce; be kind to yourself. Ease up on the impossibly high standards that you have set, and take action to create a support network to share the demands of child care.


*huh? Divorce? oh yeah, I did just get divorced this year didn't I, I kinda forget - seriously it rarely registers consciously, I'm so pre-occupied with trying to just survive, plus divorced life doesn't really feel a whole lot different than the last one of the marriage, I didn't really have anyone I could rely on back then either. 3leaf clover said it in another thread, I just lack action now, need to take more.*


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## that_girl

I was not raised to be a parent or a wife. LOL! I went to college and was all ready to start a career (in law enforcement, of all things) and BAM! Got knocked up. Oops.

I was thinking about this last night--- Whose mom ever had hobbies?!?! Dads had hobbies, ...my dad golfed, fished, played softball. But moms? I can't remember my mom with a hobby until i went to college...

My mom was a woman BEFORE having me. She was a woman AFTER having me, but her hobbies stopped UNTIL I moved out. She was a single parent and worked 2 jobs to support me. Holy crap. She didn't have hobbies! It's not because women don't want hobbies, it's because our lives take a small turn for a while. My gramma never had hobbies. After she died, my mom found so many things my gramma wrote! My gramma was a writer, and a good one! She had a hobby...but it took backseat. 

BUT, this is why our young child is in bed by 8. That gives us 2 hours to do things. (we put a 10pm bedtime on us haha). 

8pm bedtime is our sanity saver some days.

Dads are cool. I watch my husband with our girls and he's cool, but stern when he needs to be. Lay the foundation when they are little and it will be easier when they are older.


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## southern wife

When I was growing up, my Mom had a group of girls that always played cards once a month, rotating houses. I was the youngest of 6...........*yes......SIX.....kids*. But my parents still did things outside of being parents. They were on a bowling league, which took them away every Wednesday night (which I hated), and then Mom had her card game. The weekends were family time and we went camping every weekend at the lake. 

Lon, I'm not sure why you're in the funk and I wish I had a magic wand to twirl around and get you out, but for the sake of your son, please seek help. And please do not decrease your time with him. 

Why not spend more time with your single parent friends and let the kids play?


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## that_girl

Do you go home to the marital home? I ask this because the house I had with my ex was HAUNTING to me..and I hated that place. I moved out and my anxiety disappeared.


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## that_girl

Oh and here...this was taken 2 days ago...lol....Total man, total Daddy.

Best daddy - YouTube


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## Goldmember357

single mothers are more likely to be in poverty and working poor.


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## Cosmos

> Meanwhile I see mothers that are very successful at balancing all the dynamics of single parenthood? Are women just better at this?


No, I don't believe we are, but we know that we have to do it anyway.

After my divorce, I reared my son alone with little help from my ex (he rarely even exercised access). I worked hard, at one time holding down 3 jobs and working 7 days a week to make ends meet, had little social life and dating was out of the question. It was exhausting and, at times, very lonely, but I had no choice in the matter. It was hard, but I had to do it as best I could.


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## seeking sanity

Hey Lon - I did that for almost two years and it was very tough, though incredibly gratifying. (We've sinced reconciled). During that time I also ran a business and had a social life. 

You can do it. Your lack of energy strikes me as more loneliness and lack of passion, then just specific to your kid. Plus, at 5, he still needs a lot of maintanence, in a few years he'll be off playing with buddies and it will be way easier.

As far a manly goes: Any guy that would accept every second weekend is a complete p*ssy in my books. Allowing himself to be alienated from his kids and eventually allowing another man to raise them is something I would never even consider. Not for a second. 

I'd suggest you try to build some friendships, increase the exercise, start dating, get your mojo back. Your ex may have some great capacity to "do it all", but who gives a sh*t. It's your life, not hers, that matters here.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

My parenting "secrets".

I moved to a small apartment close to my children's school. 1/2 mile away. Less stress getting up and out in the morning. Most mornings my kids have the option of eating breakfast at school, and I can eat with them for $2 with a takeaway snack due to generous portions. Otherwise I cook for them if I am awake early enough. The kids have hot lunch every day except one day a week my daughter gets a bag lunch because she is allergic to what's served both the main dish and the alternate dish. 

My daughter wants to do soccer and Girl Scouts. I have to ask other parents to help with that. Fortunately soccer is close by and GS is at the school. I have a cell phone with her friends' moms' numbers I'm not ashamed to ask for drop off and with being so close it's not a big issue.

My son does art, he gets a scholarship, the place is 1/2 hour away. I take him but I also take my reading and writing I need to do, or do errands such as groceries during that time.

I don't have an issue using a sitter so I can get out to my dance classes or special events, within budget. I really like using a sitter because I can put the sitter on standby for a paid hour if I'm out of town and the kids are in school, then no worries about kids needing an emergency pick up from school. My landlord and his wife are also listed as emergency pickups, he's a police officer. I believe she is a stay home mom. 

My kids wear what they like as long as it's appropriate for weather and venue. The beds get made in the morning - never or if they want. 

The kids don't get showers every day. I keep an eye on the dirt and hair washing and it gets done when necessary.

Picking up of room. I have been known to clear emergency path to the bed. 

My kids have gone to overnight camp. I packed the day before and just dumped their duffels on their beds without organizing anything, leaving out their swimsuits, towels, flip flops and sun screen which is what was immediately needed. Other parents organized stuff, I have seen what the cabins look like the next day, why bother?

I listen to my kids, if they want to go to the library to get books, we go. I usually ask them in advance what sort of food they want for the week in the way of dinners. I tend not to buy anything within reason as they are both healthy eaters. I consult with them prior to cooking dinner. I do serve chicken nuggets and fish sticks and make homemade macaroni and cheese also they like tortellini and spaghetti with parmesan and homemade flatbread pizza no tomato sauce also roast chicken and meatloaf and hot dogs. Broccoli is a big favorite veggie around here, also sweet potatoes and corn and rice in a steamer always gets eaten. I'll make zucchini muffins or pumpkin muffins which get eaten. I never force the issue of food. It's not worth it. 

I accommodate their friends. 

I take them out bike riding and hiking and to the beach which are all not too far away. 

If we eat out it's usually at a taco joint in the city, we sit on barstools at the window and people-watch or whatever. Kids eat free on Sunday. 

I paid for a card at a library in a nearby town, they have museum passes for the Indian Museum and the Planetarium, so we can get out without having a hassle about cost.

I do take them to some adult things such as art museum, movies like Best Exotic Marigold Hotel and recently to a play A Winter's Tale (Shakespeare) and have taken them to community concerts and let them run around on the lawn. 

If I have to work or do chores, like go to the laundromat because my washer busted, I just inform them that it's a have-to.

I work half-time and slashed my expenses. I use the time when I don't have the kids to work more and that way when I do have the kids I can work a bit less. I shop at thrift stores and applied for scholarships for the kids for various activities. (My son has some developmental issues, so it takes longer to do anything...and he doesn't do team sports because of his issues, on the other hand he does math team and gymnastics/dance and art.) There are some things we all do together such as xc skiing and downhill skiing (local) and sometimes dance. 

I take my kids along for some things such as if I'm running the xc ski hut I take them along. I've taken them along and put them in the boss's office for work meetings, for Argentine Tango class I took them along and the venue was a children's museum so it worked out great, other times I just bring them along and they can dance or not depending on the level of the dance and people there and their interest. 

I have male friends and don't differentiate much between someone I'm dating and someone who is a friend, so I don't censor my friendships, they have as much access to my male friends as to my female friends. My friends are important when it comes to my kids, they get to see a lot of the world and ideas and so forth than they would if I never introduced them to my friends. All of my friends like kids especially mine so it's not an issue. I don't have friends who don't like kids. I let my kids have their own relationships with my friends, I don't try to mediate. 

If we don't have a set schedule such as vacations or camping or whatever, I have a general idea of a time schedule but I'm flexible. 

I have been known to have snacks en route just a box of Vanilla Wafers or whatever available in the back seat. 

We do stuff sometimes like take the dog for a walk, have a fire in the fire pit out back and roast hot dogs/sausages for dinner, or take the telescope out to look at stars.

I don't feel the need to entertain or educate my kids, I hang out with them but don't try to play the role of being the go-to for knowledge or fun. If they need adult help to make their stuff happen, they ask. 

Sometimes the simplest thing is fun. Like the kids want to learn how to knit or Latin dance or to learn some words in a foreign language. I let them play with my Rosetta Stone. 

Lately when I take the kids somewhere if it's a family-friendly event or place I do let them free-range with their friends, within reason. Both kids have gone off on impromptu play dates. 

I don't have an overall plan for raising my kids or any set goals for them other than to help them mature into the adults they would like to be.

My eldest just turned 22, he is independent and texted me on his birthday that I was an awesome mom, he didn't realize this until he got out in the world and talked to others about their upbringing and realized as well their lack of knowledge/skills in surviving in the world. 

When my kids are just a bit older, they will have checkbooks and be responsible for grocery shopping/meal planning, laundry and so forth. My son applied for his own art scholarship, did all the paperwork on his own...

Mostly I live in a kid habitat. I have very few possessions or adult furniture or whatever. I have my bike and xc skis and my school and work stuff at home. Other than that I live in a kid habitat. I run the kitchen and the laundry here, and do the driving and sometimes make suggestions about what to do. Other than that I am their parent, rather than them being my children. Most kids do know what they would like to do with their time and energy, and things go a lot better when the adult can accommodate. 

I have work I like to do and that's interesting. But if I didn't my goal for work would be to make the most amount of money in the least amount of time while reducing the logistics of doing so.

I figure I won't have a job I actually go to until a couple more years. I do go to my volunteer job but not on a regular basis. It does give me practice of getting dressed for work and being in an office at a set time for a designated purpose. I'll be paid for that job with work-study funding, so it will now be closer to a 'real' job. But the money is 'real' regardless. 

Having kids really is a life style change. Like I said I live in my kids' habitat. I will do this until they are of age and on their own. There is no use fighting it and trying to fit kids into an adult life. I don't think that really goes well. You don't have to lose your identity but you do have to figure out what it is that you personally want for a take-away for your leisure time and go for that. My big things are Argentine Tango, my work at the movies, my ability to write when I have something I'm inspired to write, and participating in Quaker Meeting. Sometimes I can't get to all that, but most of the time I can get to one thing. Most of the people I know understand that my availability to participate comes and goes with the presence of my kids and what they have going on. There is no 'set' schedule, but I do keep a calendar. 

It's a process. You have to be willing to change with the kid, as the kid matures and changes interests.

Right now I work and I go to school. My work is reduced as to what I used to do. I hedge and take stuff I know is not a big stretch of the intellect. With school it would be great if I could always do gold standard work but I have been known to cut corners and while straight A's would be great I am mostly in school for my own purposes. It does get me out of the house and is my 'thing' just for myself. I live in the same town where I go to college, it's not on-line, so it's easy to get to class after dropping my kids at school and I'm right there if they need me. I can also use sitters during their school breaks when I have classes, or depending on the subject, or activity (such as newspaper) I take them with me.


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## muskrat

Lon I can relate to how your feeling, but I wouldn't give up a second with my kids. My w was a sahm who took care of the house and kids. When she decided to leave I negotiated split custody, my kids are 6 &3, well split has turned out to be me handling all school activities and extra curriculars. I put my dd on the bus 4 days a week, the ex does 1. Luckily I have a job that allows me to take my ds with me. My work is not near as good as it was, the house is always a mess and my kids are my social life. Yes I am lonely, but my kids are only young for a short time and when they get older I want them to remember me foundly.
Sadly they were always attached to their mother and now cry when she comes to get them, she just doesn't seem to realize what she is losing.
My point is this is hard and life will wear you down, but stay strong, do the best you can and your son will one day see the sacrifices you made for him and make this all worth while. The memories you create with him now will last a life time and once he grows up you can't go back and relive is childhood. Being manly is taking responsibility and loving and caring for your child. Any man who says your not manly for giving up your personal time and hobbies to care for your son is not very manly himself.


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## Lon

muskrat said:


> ...Any man who says your not manly for giving up your personal time and hobbies to care for your son is not very manly himself.


Yes I'm realizing there is all kinds of conflict, especially when asking advice for others... many say the priority of importance is:

1. Me
2. Us (marriage)
3. Kids

because without 1 you can't succeed at 2, and without 2 you can't succeed at 3. But what happens when 1 and 2 are already broken, that seems to be my problem. I was arguing on another thread about a W who was disappointed her H was a great father but didn't pay her the same attention, and to me it sounded like a jealous sibling more than an adult woman married with children. Yes I agree you have to nurture a marriage, and you have to nurture your own needs, but really at what cost? You and I have flexible jobs, and say that we wouldn't sacrifice a moment away from them, but still that is 8 hours a day we already do sacrifice away from them.

As for personal time and hobbies, I'm so worn out from #3 that I honestly don't even enjoy my personal time or hobbies anymore. I was on the golf course with friends yesterday, it was a beautiful afternoon, but I was completely miserable to be there for some reason. I have no idea what I'd have rather been doing.


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