# Wife jealous of ex-wife, and I have no clue why



## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

Quick background - married to the best woman one could ask for, for 5 years. Married previously with two adult kids. The divorce with the ex was very prolonged, many times unpleasant, but not exceedingly confrontational. The ex and I split as I felt emotionally abused and shut out, and she refused counselling. I actually checked out of that marriage a year before I physically left. Anyways, my current wife has recently disclosed to me an insecurity she has felt for years, but never told me about, regarding my ex. Sh'es very uncomfortable with any casual talk with my ex that I had, that are above and beyond business (pickup of our son, who doesn't drive yet, and financials). 

My commitment to my wife is full and complete, mind, soul, heart and body. In MY mind, I've never given my wife any reason to feel vulnerable or jealous regarding my ex, but that's obviously not the case. A few weeks ago, she suggested she come with me to pick up my boy, about a hour drive away. This is before I knew she felt insecure. Initially I said no beacuse i felt it would be awkward for the face to face meeting. My 'no' reaction REALLY upset her. That's when she told me that she'd previously seen the LOl text pop on my phone. I don't even know the conversation and could never even find it, but I did tell her that my ex and I talk about the 'business' stuff of coparenting, and if side conversations happen, they are no big deal.

So, we had a big fight where she told me how it really bothered her and I can see if the shoe was on he other foot, but I over and over explained she has absolutely nothing at all to worry about. My ex is an ex for a reason, and my future is with the one I'm married to now.

Since then, things have still been tense, and she's withdrawn a bit and sad. I've rearranged pickups so that we don't bump into each other, but I feel like this is way out of proportion.

Yet, I cannot trivialize or dismiss her feelings. That is what she's feeling and that's what counts.

This woman is my everything and I just feel so spun by her reaction.When I try to engage with her on the matter, she withdraws and her mood is exacerbated. i love this woman to death, but I don't know what to do except to keep reaffirming my commitment to her and the future we have planned.

Any sage advice from the community as to why this has suddenly manifested itself, or what I can do?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Every man who ever had an affair with an ex,a work colleague or an old Facebook friend always assured his wife “You have nothing to worry about”. If you don’t understand this then you will never regain your wife’s trust.
Your wife feels insecure because she sees you having conversations with your ex that frankly you shouldn’t be having.When she suggested coming with you to pick up your son you dismissed it out of hand.
You can sanctimoniously profess your love for your wife to all and sundry but you know what?
In life we are taught to judge people by their actions not their words.
And your actions leave a lot to be desired.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Why did you tell her no to coming with you? Why would it be awkward?


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Every man who ever had an affair with an ex,a work colleague or an old Facebook friend always assured his wife “You have nothing to worry about”. If you don’t understand this then you will never regain your wife’s trust.
> Your wife feels insecure because she sees you having conversations with your ex that frankly you shouldn’t be having.When she suggested coming with you to pick up your son you dismissed it out of hand.
> You can sanctimoniously profess your love for your wife to all and sundry but you know what?
> In life we are taught to judge people by their actions not their words.
> And your actions leave a lot to be desired.


Whoa! Affair? WTF? I'm not having an affair! You completely misinterpreted what I wrote. Any time I talk to the ex, it's about 'business' - the kids or financials. If there was an 'LOL' it was certainly wasn't because of some inappropriate conversation. Plus, I've always told my wife she's open to my emails, FB, phone etc. We know each others passwords, so there are NO SECRETS in our home.

And by my actions, who are you to judge me? You have no clue how I treat my wife. Anyone who knows me sees me as a loving and doting husband. She knows the f****ng hell I went through with my ex, and all the bull**** games she used to play with me, so yeah, there is no conceivable scenario I would think of ever going back to her.

Unreal.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> Why did you tell her no to coming with you? Why would it be awkward?


Because my ex has previously expressed to me that my wife is not welcome near her. She was pissed off I remarried. A coworker described it as that she didn't want me, but nobody else should have me either.

It's irrelevant actually, as I was only trying to avoid an awkward situation. My intentions were good, but they blew up in my face.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

ZenPhoenix said:


> Because my ex has previously expressed to me that my wife is not welcome near her. She was pissed off I remarried. A coworker described it as that she didn't want me, but nobody else should have me either.
> 
> It's irrelevant actually, as I was only trying to avoid an awkward situation. My intentions were good, but they blew up in my face.


What your ex wants should be taking a back seat to what your wife wants. Your ex has no say in any of it any longer.

Having said that, I agree that first response was a bit harsh.

But your job is to make your current wife feel secure and safe, and you're not doing that. Don't beat yourself up for it now, but correct it from here on out.

As you said yourself, it doesn't really matter why your current wife feels the way she does. The fact is, she does. Fix it.

I would be upset too if I had asked to go with you to pick up the son and you said no. There's no acceptable reason for that (and your reason after the fact - that your ex-wife wouldn't like it - is a terrible reason). You say your relationship is an open book, but it isn't really.

So fix it, and keep reassuring your wife (you seem genuine). Hopefully she will come around.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If your sons are adults there is absolutely no need for you to have an contact with her. Are they not able to phone you and arrange things for themselves? Why do they need mummy to do this for them?

When I married my second husband their sons were aged 18 and 21. He and his ex had no need for any contact, and 12 years later they never have. The boys made any arrangements to see him themselves and he didn't need go to the house. The ONLY time they may need to have any contact is if the sons get married. 
The same with my ex. I have had no contact with him for about 13 years, no need once the kids reach late teens and can pick up the phone and make a call.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

ZenPhoenix said:


> Whoa! Affair? WTF? I'm not having an affair! You completely misinterpreted what I wrote. Any time I talk to the ex, it's about 'business' - the kids or financials. If there was an 'LOL' it was certainly wasn't because of some inappropriate conversation. Plus, I've always told my wife she's open to my emails, FB, phone etc. We know each others passwords, so there are NO SECRETS in our home.
> 
> And by my actions, who are you to judge me? You have no clue how I treat my wife. Anyone who knows me sees me as a loving and doting husband. She knows the f****ng hell I went through with my ex, and all the bull**** games she used to play with me, so yeah, there is no conceivable scenario I would think of ever going back to her.
> 
> Unreal.


Try reading what I wrote before getting pissed.I never accused you of having an affair.
What your ex wife wants or doesn’t want should have no bearing on your relationship with your wife or your ADULT son.He is not a child that you need to agree custody arrangements for.
Like I said actions not words.

And if you don’t want opinions that don’t tally with your own maybe you shouldn’t be on an anonymous forum.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ZenPhoenix said:


> Because my ex has previously expressed to me that my wife is not welcome near her. She was pissed off I remarried. A coworker described it as that she didn't want me, but nobody else should have me either.
> 
> It's irrelevant actually, as I was only trying to avoid an awkward situation. My intentions were good, but they blew up in my face.


If you are collecting your son, then there is no need for either of you to go near her or the house. Make sure your son comes out of the house when you arrive, or meet him somewhere locally, then you can both go. You are allowing your ex to dictate to you on this. Who cares what she thinks. Not sure why you need to contact her about finances either, didn't you sort all that out in the divorce? Why are you paying anything now anyway if they are adults? There is no need for your ex to be in anyway involved in your lives now.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If your wife is merely insecure, then do whatever is needed to make her feel secure. E.g., take her along when you pick up your son. Feelings aren't rational, and don't usually respond to a logical response. Now, if your wife doesn't _trust_ you, when there is no evidence or solid reason not to, then IMO that's her issue. Ask her what it would take to resolve that, but for me, that's a serious issue and I would not tolerate unfounded mistrust. I would consider that HER issue to resolve, as _you_ can't prove a negative. You should cooperate with what she needs to resolve the question, but not "walk on eggshells" or pander to stupidity - that's no way to live. Let her come up with substantive reasons for her thinking, in that case, so they can be disproved. For me, my word and my integrity are fundamental to my character - question it at your peril!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I bet it has to do with her previous life experiences. Did her ex-H or another important relationship cheat on her? I have a female friend who was completely "normal" until her fiance cheated on her. And then so did her next serious boyfriend. Now she gets triggered, literally in the PTSD type of mode, about anything similar to what she observed those previous men to do. Like deleting a text message from one of their ex's.

Additionally, you should be protecting your W from your ex, which means standing up for her to your ex. It is understandable that you took the approach of just keep them apart so there aren't fireworks, but I bet your W interpreted it in her emotional brain, and perhaps not even consciously, that you were prioritizing your ex-w over her.

I think perhaps you should apologize to your W for not telling your ex-W that you'll bring your W with you whenever you want, and your ex-W needs to just suck it up and deal with it. Also, apologize for telling her no to coming with you. Even though you did that to prevent an unpleasant confrontation, you now understand that she received it in a hurtful way and you apologize for that.

Your W needs to feel that you hear her side of it, and that you genuinely feel badly for her distress. This is not the time for you to defend yourself, because that just looks like more of the same to her.

Second wives frequently worry they are being compared to the first wife or that the husband would have preferred to stay married to the first wife. I think you need to exhibit behavior that clearly shows you are glad you are no longer married to the 1st wife, and that you actively stand up for your 2nd wife. Even innocent things you've said in the past could be taken wrong. e.g. saying that you wish for your kid's sake the marriage hadn't ended. You meant it that in a perfect world your 1st wife would have been a good wife and the marriage would have been happy. But since it wasn't the perfect world you are happier to be divorced. But what she heard might have been you're lamenting the divorce and if the chance to remarry your ex-w came up you would seriously consider it.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

ZenPhoenix said:


> Because my ex has previously expressed to me that my wife is not welcome near her. She was pissed off I remarried. A coworker described it as that she didn't want me, but nobody else should have me either.
> 
> It's irrelevant actually, as I was only trying to avoid an awkward situation. My intentions were good, but they blew up in my face.


That sounds like it's your wife's issue with your ex. Your ex is still into you. If your ex has moved on, she shouldn't care that you remarried. 

On the other hand, your wife knew what she was getting into. And she can't expect you to be stone cold to your ex wife. 

I'd bring your wife with you on every drop off/pick up situation (if she wishes/asks to go with you), who is your ex wife to tell you not to?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow. So you catered to your ex at the expense of your wife but you can't understand why she's upset.

Think about that.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Geese, no woman wants an X in the mix at all. You want to have a good relationship with your wife you'd better cut your X out completely.

Text or emails kids only. Pickup/drop offs should be a 3 minute exercise with zero engagement.

Better wake up


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

ZenPhoenix said:


> Because my ex has previously expressed to me that my wife is not welcome near her. She was pissed off I remarried. A coworker described it as that she didn't want me, but nobody else should have me either.
> 
> It's irrelevant actually, as I was only trying to avoid an awkward situation. My intentions were good, but they blew up in my face.


She's an x. Your wife counts the x doesn't.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

Thor said:


> I bet it has to do with her previous life experiences. Did her ex-H or another important relationship cheat on her? I have a female friend who was completely "normal" until her fiance cheated on her. And then so did her next serious boyfriend. Now she gets triggered, literally in the PTSD type of mode, about anything similar to what she observed those previous men to do. Like deleting a text message from one of their ex's.
> 
> Additionally, you should be protecting your W from your ex, which means standing up for her to your ex. It is understandable that you took the approach of just keep them apart so there aren't fireworks, but I bet your W interpreted it in her emotional brain, and perhaps not even consciously, that you were prioritizing your ex-w over her.
> 
> ...


Thank you - YES!, this is literally it. She had been cheated on before, and most likely triggered based on my poorly thought attempt at averting conflict. On the face of it, it doesn't look like was putting her before my ex. 

UGH! I can't believe I was so daft as to not see this. I really was trying to do the right thing, and as a conflict avoider, this was just the easy way out.

Lesson learned. I'm sad and ashamed the cost of the lesson included upsetting the woman who means the most to me.

Thank you so much, Thor. Like I said, this is literally the issue. I appreciate it, man.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

Hope Shimmers said:


> What your ex wants should be taking a back seat to what your wife wants. Your ex has no say in any of it any longer.
> 
> Having said that, I agree that first response was a bit harsh.
> 
> ...


Yup, taking the approach to just say yes and go get him would have avoided all this entirely. Upon reflection, it was a bungled attempt to avoid conflict, and I didn't look at the optics of that choice.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> That sounds like it's your wife's issue with your ex. Your ex is still into you. If your ex has moved on, she shouldn't care that you remarried.
> 
> On the other hand, your wife knew what she was getting into. And she can't expect you to be stone cold to your ex wife.
> 
> I'd bring your wife with you on every drop off/pick up situation (if she wishes/asks to go with you), who is your ex wife to tell you not to?


Yes, she's coming with me now for the pickups/dropoffs, and a BIG yes, to the fact my ex doesn't get to dictate terms to me anymore. My conflict avoidance may have been the result of the conditioning I wore during what was many times an emotionally abusive relationship. Not an excuse, just a moment of reflection - just trying to better understand.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> If your sons are adults there is absolutely no need for you to have an contact with her. Are they not able to phone you and arrange things for themselves? Why do they need mummy to do this for them?
> 
> .....


My son doesn't have his license yet (close, but not quite). That's why the pickup, to be honest.


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

how old is your son though? if he is "adult" then he can find a way to meet you without involving his mother.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

happy2gether said:


> how old is your son though? if he is "adult" then he can find a way to meet you without involving his mother.


He's got his beginners license, and will have his general one within the year.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OP, I'm glad you're getting your priorities straight. 

Just to make sure, let me provide your wife's perspective on this, which I can provide because my husband is also very conflict avoidant and has chosen to cater to his ex wife at my expense.

This has nothing to do with her being cheated on. That implies that one who hasn't been cheated on would be ok with it. 

They wouldn't be.

My husband's decision to kiss his ex's rear end at my expense demonstrated to me that I was a lower priority. My feelings come after her feelings and his comfort level. Talk is cheap..... you can claim that you love her/are faithful, but when it came down to a choice between your ex's feelings and your wife's you chose your ex.

The fact is that you were going to have conflict either with your ex or your wife, and you decided your ex mattered more.

She will not soon forget that. It's been a long time and I haven't forgotten it. If my husband does that again I'm not sure I'll be sticking around. He claims he wouldn't, but the fact is that he hasn't had to actually make a decision as no such situation has come up. 

You can change this by prioritizing your wife's feelings. If you can't do that you aren't ready to be remarried. Period.

But it sounds like you get it and can fix it. I have hope for you.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, I'm glad you're getting your priorities straight.
> 
> Just to make sure, let me provide your wife's perspective on this, which I can provide because my husband is also very conflict avoidant and has chosen to cater to his ex wife at my expense.
> 
> ...


Yup, totally get it, and am making no exceptions that W is number one priority, regardless of circumstance. I'm mad at myself for reacting (the no to coming with me), almost out of reflex to the old dynamic from the first marriage. No, not 'almost'.... DID react out of reflex. Must avoid conflict. Don't upset her. Walking on f****ng eggshells. I'm disappointed in myself that the first M could affect the second M that way.

Time to be more mindful of my gut-reactions.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ZenPhoenix said:


> Yup, totally get it, and am making no exceptions that W is number one priority, regardless of circumstance. I'm mad at myself for reacting (the no to coming with me), almost out of reflex to the old dynamic from the first marriage. No, not 'almost'.... DID react out of reflex. Must avoid conflict. Don't upset her. Walking on f****ng eggshells. I'm disappointed in myself that the first M could affect the second M that way.
> 
> Time to be more mindful of my gut-reactions.


 I'd almost think you were my husband except that he has a daughter and she's married, so we aren't picking her up. 

I can imagine him having the exact same thought process as you described.

Thank you for sharing it..... it is helpful to hear it 
from someone who sounds a lot like him. Gives me a little more insight into his thought process.

All I've ever gotten is "I didn't handle that well", which he likes to use to avoid actually dealing with it. More conflict avoidance.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ZenPhoenix said:


> My son doesn't have his license yet (close, but not quite). That's why the pickup, to be honest.


Pick up in fine, but you don't need to see your ex or talk to her about anything now he is an adult. He can come out to the car. No contact needed now with her at all.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Pick up in fine, but you don't need to see your ex or talk to her about anything now he is an adult. He can come out to the car. No contact needed now with her at all.


Agree, apart from the financial stuff we have to go over each year re. support payments, none is necessary.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Man, threads like this trigger the crap out of me! OP thank goodness you are realizing the correct priority here. As a wife who was dumped so he could remarry the EX wife, I was in a panic for your wife and your marriage! Ex wife no longer matters, current wife who loves you and is good to you is all that matters, and her feelings on this must be respected. 

Phew.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'd almost think you were my husband except that he has a daughter and she's married, so we aren't picking her up.
> 
> I can imagine him having the exact same thought process as you described.
> 
> ...


"I didn't handle that well" doesn't mean much unless it's a learning experience.

Seeing the wife's tears and pained expression was/is a heart-wrenching learning experience for me. I'm sorry you had a similar experience, but at least glad my experience could somehow help.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> Man, threads like this trigger the crap out of me! OP thank goodness you are realizing the correct priority here. As a wife who was dumped so he could remarry the EX wife, I was in a panic for your wife and your marriage! Ex wife no longer matters, current wife who loves you and is good to you is all that matters, and her feelings on this must be respected.
> 
> Phew.


Ugh, that's a horrible scenario. I'm so sorry that this triggered you. My apologies. :-(


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

No apology needed! That is the risk I take to continue coming here, lol... its worth it to be able to help other people.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> No apology needed! That is the risk I take to continue coming here, lol... its worth it to be able to help other people.


Well, I'm sorry anyways 
And 'thank you' as well. 

This forum is certainly cheaper than therapy! Haha!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ZenPhoenix said:


> Agree, apart from the financial stuff we have to go over each year re. support payments, none is necessary.


What support payments? Are you still paying for your son even though he is an adult?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP, very glad to hear you've learnt from this.

As a second wife to a man with a very high conflict ex wife, who's feelings have played second fiddle on occasion (not to mention the inlaws but that's a whole other conversation), I completely understand where your wife is coming from. Glad to see that she is your top priority, as she should be 

Go find her and apologise to her, show her that you understand where she was coming from and why she was so hurt and upset. If she doesn't want to talk about it, send her an email, and include this line from another comment of yours in it... "Lesson learned. I'm sad and ashamed the cost of the lesson included upsetting the woman who means the most to me".


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> What support payments? Are you still paying for your son even though he is an adult?


Given the length of the first M, I'm on the hook until retirement for spousal support.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

frusdil said:


> OP, very glad to hear you've learnt from this.
> 
> As a second wife to a man with a very high conflict ex wife, who's feelings have played second fiddle on occasion (not to mention the inlaws but that's a whole other conversation), I completely understand where your wife is coming from. Glad to see that she is your top priority, as she should be
> 
> Go find her and apologise to her, show her that you understand where she was coming from and why she was so hurt and upset. If she doesn't want to talk about it, send her an email, and include this line from another comment of yours in it... "Lesson learned. I'm sad and ashamed the cost of the lesson included upsetting the woman who means the most to me".


Thanks, frusdil, we did have a good talk and we're good on this now. We both understand the 'rules of engagement, as it were, regarding the ex. And she does know how loved she is and hpw sorry I am.

Now, I just need to keep old reflexes at bay and exercise mindfulness before any interactions with the ex. Funny how old triggers work. Not an excuse, but definitely something to me mindful of so as to avoid stepping in the same mess twice.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Nice job. 

The best way to deal with the X is:

Communication is text or email only zero phone calls. Never answer. Let it go to voicemail respond by text. If it's not kid related ignore.

Pickups/drop offs should be a 3 minute exercise with zero engagement.

It maybe awkward upfront but will normalize over time.

You make her a nonentity. You have control over yourself and your phone. She doesnt


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> Nice job.
> 
> The best way to deal with the X is:
> 
> ...


Email only is the rule to go by. Texts are still too 'real-time'.

I'm not worried about the awkward. I'd rather that than upset my wife again. It's a no-brainer.

(just wish I saw that as a no-brainer two weeks ago...)

Like I said, lesson learned.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

You know, think you have this all worked out already. 

But is will say this. Your Wife, aside from you child, is you primary concern. She ranks about all others. 

And she def ranks above your Ex, what your ex wants and desires is just not your concern, nor should it ever be a concern again. 

Further, there is no reason for you to have any chit chat with your ex. 

I think you get all of this, but let me offer one last thing. Men who finally leave bad marriages often times keep that same weak dynamic where you man (you) will not tell the Ex to F Off when that is actually what need to be said. 

This dynamic drives the next woman in the relationship crazy. It makes them see their current husband as weak, and pathetic. That makes them feel insecure and unloved. 

Just be sure that you are not doing any of these things, it is really bad for the current relationship...


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

also to shorten the time during exchange during a meet, take your wife. Neither of you get out, unless your son just needs help with something. but for just a suitcase he can grab it himself. this way you don't encourage your ex to interact or give her an opportunity to start. Simply let HIM know in advance that the two of you will be picking him up as you have plans to go to dinner/movie/park/etc and it is just makes more sense to go straight from there. after a few times of this your ex will get the message without it seeming that you are shoving your wife in her face. and if she doesn't, well then just ignore her and make sure you and you wife don't take her bait.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> You know, think you have this all worked out already.
> 
> But is will say this. Your Wife, aside from you child, is you primary concern. She ranks about all others.
> 
> ...



Yes, it was the old dynamic, or simply reacting per the old dynamic, that started this. Not going down that road again.


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## ZenPhoenix (May 7, 2012)

happy2gether said:


> also to shorten the time during exchange during a meet, take your wife. Neither of you get out, unless your son just needs help with something. but for just a suitcase he can grab it himself. this way you don't encourage your ex to interact or give her an opportunity to start. Simply let HIM know in advance that the two of you will be picking him up as you have plans to go to dinner/movie/park/etc and it is just makes more sense to go straight from there. after a few times of this your ex will get the message without it seeming that you are shoving your wife in her face. and if she doesn't, well then just ignore her and make sure you and you wife don't take her bait.


Yes, she'll be accompanying me as well. Your suggestion is pretty much what we decided on when we talked about this. My ex isn't dense - she should get the hint.


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