# Low T?



## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

I have been noticing a lack of interest in getting it on lately, and sometimes difficulty maintaining an erection. Never have a problem getting it up, but it doesn't always want to stay up. I've also plateaued in the gym in the last year or two, and don't seem to be making any progress. I'm 44, 6'-3", usually around 205, eat healthy, and exercise regularly. Been with my gf for almost 6 years, so I'm sure that's part of it. She's very good looking and we generally get along well, though. 

I had my testosterone checked today, and it's 252. Doctor said normal is between 400-1100. My insurance will pay to keep me between 400-800, after I meet my $900 deductible. I don't usually spend more than a couple hundred on my health care in a year, so there was some sticker shock there. But, it's worth it to me if I see improvements. 

I'm not excited about going on HRT, or any other regular medication for that matter, if I can avoid it. Are there any natural alternatives that actually work? I always assume a doc just wants to sell pills. 

What has your experience been?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Weightlifting and cutting processed carbs and sugars are about the only things I can think of. If those aren't working, HRT might be your best bet.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Too much grain can lower your testosterone, as can too much sugar; they are basically the same thing. I wrote an article about recommendations that Dr. Wahls makes regarding vegetables, which is much greater than we usually are told. She breaks vegetables down into three categories and recommends three cups from each category. Eating this many vegetables significantly impacts hormones for the better. Here is my explanation: http://thefemininereview.com/health...r-vegetables-part-5-of-the-good-health-series

I read an article recently that you may be interested in. It is about a study showing how sugar impacts testosterone. You can find it here: Men experience an abrupt decrease in testosterone levels after sugar intake, study finds


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

First thing that caught my attention is your doctor is not the one to see you through this. For your age, you should be around 700 or so. The range is for the entire demographic. 

Cut processed foods, anything with hormones, anything with soy, and sugar. Eat protein (grass fed), whole foods, cruciferous vegetables, nuts, olive and coconut oils.

Lift heavy. Change your routine to a 5x5 or 3x5. 

Get bloodwork done. Vitamin D deficiency is a huge contributor to low T. 

Good luck.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Forgot to mention get a good amount of good quality sleep. Apparently the body makes most of its T production after about 7-7.5 hrs sleep.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

252 is low, go on the meds, cruise and blast until you're too old to care IMO.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. My main exercise is crossfit, which is pretty intense. I'm super active otherwise, too - usually 12-14k steps on my fitbit. I eat almost no bread or grains - mainly fruit, dairy, veggies, and whole muscle meats. I am liberal with sugar, though, and I am a moderate drinker. The sugars may be my problem.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Avoid gluten to see if that helps. It did for me. Some people are fine with gluten, but it causes all kinds of issues for some people. I experienced a lot of improvements in a lot of areas when I cut out gluten completely.

You should probably see an endocrinologist for hormone issues. They are experts in this area. A regular general practice doc or a urologist are likely not really well informed. My urologist put me on a gel and sent me on my way. While it did boost my T a whole lot, I was really kind of on my own to fine-tune the dosage. Also, there are potential side effects which can be mitigated. The endo is the doc to see imho.

Look into a compounding pharmacy. They will mix the meds for you in whatever form you use, and it likely will be a lot cheaper than the brand name product from a regular pharmacy.

Low T is likely a big contributor to your issues. I expect your libido will skyrocket. Keeping hard during sex might require some additional help. The prices have gone out of sight for the name brands, but again the compounding pharmacy is your answer. They can make up generics, but can't call them generics, for about $3 per pill, compared to $40 per name brand pill.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

Readings fluctuate, so you may want to wait a month and test again. 

I'm on HRT, and it's been great for me. Much more energy, results in the gym, libido, etc. There are side effects. Your body will largely stop making T, so you have to keep supplementing. Your testicles will shrink as the sperm-producing cell go dormant, and you'll be sterile, or nearly so. 

Since you're borderline, you should try to increase it naturally. There are a ton of articles, but they all recommend the same things, lift weights, get enough sleep, eat right, don't eat the wrong things. Several also say porn consumption lowers T, not settled, though. 

Our bodies are odd, my own levels fluctuate depending on how I do the above, even though the dose has been the same for years. If I've been hitting the gym and staying low carb, I've been as high as 1100, usually around 500-600 if not. I'm 56, BTW.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

Also totally agree with Thor, my GP referred me to an excellent endocrinologist. Don't go to the Low T clinics unless you just wants meds without medical advice.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

OnTheRocks said:


> Thanks for the replies. * My main exercise is crossfit, which is pretty intense*. I'm super active otherwise, too - usually 12-14k steps on my fitbit. I eat almost no bread or grains - mainly fruit, dairy, veggies, and whole muscle meats. I am liberal with sugar, though, and I am a moderate drinker. The sugars may be my problem.


Intense long duration activities cause the body to release Cortisol, a stress hormone which is said to negatively affect T levels.

That's why power lifting is good. High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) is better for cardio than "cardio" excercises

This is all research I've done for a few years now. I've put it into practice, stopped a few things on the list in between tests and have seen gains drop back down. I don't know what specifically did it because I stopped the lifting, started eating more sugary things, and stopped vitamin D (I am deficient). My levels dropped about 35%


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Crossfit is mainly HIT and olympic lifting, short but intense workouts. 

I do smoke weed and eat edibles fairly regularly, and I understand that can affect T levels. I've done that since I was about 15 and never really had an issue before, but I'm gonna cut it out for a while and see if it helps. 

Has anyone tried the natural supplements like this? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012YG06N8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A2PLYW0DW8DU2C&th=1

I'm thinking I'll make some dietary and recreational habit changes in the next couple months, and see if that helps. If not, maybe I'll reconsider HRT after my deductible rolls over on the first of the year.


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

The scientific evidence that a slightly low T causes ED is poor to non-existent. Similarly the use of supplements is controversial. (I say this as a scientist).

Any difficulty is far more likely to be mood/psychology related!


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

I've found supplements are largely just snake oil, especially the ones that supposedly raise testosterone.

Try all the things that do work, and give it time. It can take several months or longer to make gains. Don't jump on the TRT/HRT train too soon.


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

manwithnoname said:


> I've found supplements are largely just snake oil, especially the ones that supposedly raise testosterone.
> 
> ... Don't jump on the TRT/HRT train too soon.


Agreed. No evidence they raise testosterone, and little evidence raising testosterone helps performance.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

OnTheRocks said:


> I have been noticing a lack of interest in getting it on lately, and sometimes difficulty maintaining an erection. Never have a problem getting it up, but it doesn't always want to stay up. I've also plateaued in the gym in the last year or two, and don't seem to be making any progress. I'm 44, 6'-3", usually around 205, eat healthy, and exercise regularly. Been with my gf for almost 6 years, so I'm sure that's part of it. She's very good looking and we generally get along well, though.
> 
> I had my testosterone checked today, and it's 252. Doctor said normal is between 400-1100. My insurance will pay to keep me between 400-800, after I meet my $900 deductible. I don't usually spend more than a couple hundred on my health care in a year, so there was some sticker shock there. But, it's worth it to me if I see improvements.


I few things from a guy who is 68.

As to sticker shock. Yes, but the price is probably for a patented non-generic Testosterone. 

You can get compounding pharmacy to fill a topical HRT prescription for more like $90 for a 3 month supply, if you can get your doctor to prescribe it. If you want, you can check out the following as in addition to women's HRT they do men's HRT.

https://www.womensinternational.com/contact/

Now as to a T level of 252. That is low, things that go hand in hand with low T include bone loss and muscle loss in addition to libido. You need to do something at age 44 otherwise things are not going to go well for you.

There is huge difference between normal levels and optimal levels and they change by age.

You might want to listen to the following podcast Podcast: Increase Your Testosterone Naturally | The Art of Manliness

Belly fat actually converts T into estrogen in men. So you need to drop your belly fat if you want to keep off HRT.

Once you start HRT after a few months usually your testicles will shut down and atrophy. So once you start it is often a you are in it for life decision. Study your options wisely.

Good luck.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

OnTheRocks said:


> I have been noticing a lack of interest in getting it on lately, and sometimes difficulty maintaining an erection. Never have a problem getting it up, but it doesn't always want to stay up. I've also plateaued in the gym in the last year or two, and don't seem to be making any progress. I'm 44, 6'-3", usually around 205, eat healthy, and exercise regularly. Been with my gf for almost 6 years, so I'm sure that's part of it. She's very good looking and we generally get along well, though.
> 
> I had my testosterone checked today, and it's 252. Doctor said normal is between 400-1100. My insurance will pay to keep me between 400-800, after I meet my $900 deductible. I don't usually spend more than a couple hundred on my health care in a year, so there was some sticker shock there. But, it's worth it to me if I see improvements.
> 
> ...




I had lots of energy and a very high sex drive in my teens, 20's and 30's.


When I turned 39, my energy levels really started to drop and so did my sex drive.


I read that when most men hit 40, we start to age fast at that point.


What you can do is take a natural testosterone booster or go to the doctor and get monthly test shots. Both work.


Also take 10g arginine powder with water on an empty stomach right before bed because this raises your human growth hormone while you sleep, wild vivid dreams and you usually wake up hard and in the mood.


Beyond this you could go to a gym and get steroids from a local body builder. Then you will be horny like you were in your teens again, stronger than ever and lean with little body fat.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

I have many years of experience in both the bodybuilding world and later as a TRT patient. 

Cutting out processed foods and eating healthy is good for you... but don't expect your testosterone to come up significantly. Any OTC product is bogus. 

You need to inject testosterone on a weekly (preferably twice a week for more stable levels) basis. Or you can get a compounded testosterone cream that you rub on daily. I prefer the shots. No chance of transferring to kids or wife with the shots.

You will be a different human on testosterone. Go for it.


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## AlterEdge78 (Oct 16, 2017)

dadstartingover said:


> I have many years of experience in both the bodybuilding world and later as a TRT patient.
> 
> Cutting out processed foods and eating healthy is good for you... but don't expect your testosterone to come up significantly. Any OTC product is bogus.
> 
> ...


I have to agree 100% here. First if all once your on testosterone, you will be a totally different man. I had an injury about 8 years ago, fell through a deck and slammed my testicles on the joist on my way down. My doctor ran my blood and my test was sitting around 225. My libido was dying off, i was becoming tired and lazy, depressed, quality of my erections were horrible. Finally after months of testing and no improvement my doctor finally put me on Testim testosterone gel. I started getting this euphoric feeling and wow before you know it my levels were at 820. Fast forward, i started putting on more muscle, strength went up, libido came back, and the quality of my erection, well lets say i could smack a base ball with it now and hit a home run. 
Testosterone therapy can and usually will cause testicular shut down and atrophy, however, taken with hcg, like it should be taken, will stop those issues. My balls are a lot fuller, and loads quite huge too, not to mention the hcg revved up my natural output a little. With hcg and the test gel, my levels normally sit in the range of 1400.
I did however switch to injecting testosterone enthanate twice a week to minimize the risk of transfering the gel to the wife and kids.


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## drewg350 (Oct 14, 2017)

Testosterone replacement has changed EVERYTHING in my life for the better. I'm 49, for the last 15 year's or so, I've changed alot, but slowly. My interest in sex dwindled, I got more belly fat, and I lost all "feelings". I was stone cold. No feelings of love, empathy, drive, nothing. I was *****y and complained about everything. I showed my wife zero affection. We became roommates instead of husband and wife. Last Thanksgiving I decided to get in shape as my daughter's kept asking me to. I was lazy, and stopped doing fun things with them. No basketball, biking, hiking, nothing. So I got started and over 6 months I went from 240 lbs (5'11") to around 195. I was working out in the gym 5 days a week, doing Cardio, and eating a clean diet. But I still was having an issue losing belly fat, and I had little sex drive. My "equipment" had actually shrunk and my erections were weak. I went to the doctor and found out my testosterone levels were nearly non-existent, under 100. Within a month of being on testosterone enanthate, my life turned around. My wife and kid's immediately noticed a difference. So much so, that they had issues adjusting to all my changes. I became extremely horny, my equipment went right back to size, and my erections were rock hard. One major thing I should've known was an issue was before TRT I did not get morning "wood". Immediately upon starting, morning "wood" greets me EVERY morning. I have "feelings" and drive again. I feel confident in everything I do. My sex life is back. I'm like I was in my twenties. Whereas before, if I had sex once, I was done for the day. Now my refactoring period is minutes. I can have sex 2, 3, 4 times within an hour to 90 minutes. No problem. I get hard again within 5 minutes of cumming. It's really just awesome. I've also lost all that tough belly fat I couldn't lose. I went from a size 38 jeans bearing fitting to now wearing size 31 waist jeans. That's right, 31". I have a 6 pack, sub 10% body fat, and am shredded/ripped. TRT has saved my life and relationship with my wife. I am the happiest, most positive, guy in the world. That's been my experience with TRT. Just awesome.


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## AlterEdge78 (Oct 16, 2017)

Within a month of being on testosterone enanthate, my life turned around.


I switched over to testosterone enanthate and love it!!!


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