# Is it okay to withhold sex?



## MarlonFamilton (May 15, 2010)

Hi!

I was hoping for some opinions and viewpoints for an article I am working on about handling a problem that comes up very frequently with my clients in marriage counseling: Loss of intimacy & sex.

Many couples come in with several issues, but often one of the symptoms of their disconnection is that intimacy and sex have declined or gone missing. Something has happened for one partner to be angry or lose trust in the other. Not to stereotype _because it goes both ways_, but I mostly see the female partner resisting the male's requests for sex because she has lost trust in him for some reason or feels neglected or rejected. He then feels rejected and becomes resentful and they become stuck.

An affair, a health or safety issue or falling out of love are easy reasons to understand, so let's not include those. I'm more interested in when one partner has decided to hold back consistently for weeks or months, for a reason not directly related to sex and rejects the partner. 

For example, I had a couple where a month after getting married the wife learned about additional debt the husband had, which was a trigger for her due to a past husband hiding a gambling addiction. in her marriage now, intimacy has waned and she withholds to "protect" herself. This of course triggers his insecurities and viola, they are stuck. This is just one example; I'm sure there are millions.

*My questions are:* 

Is this okay to with hold sex in a marriage when the issue is not specifically about sex? 

How have you / would you want to work through this problem yourself?

Does the partner wanting intimacy need to give to the other first, or should the one witholding it need to give in first to start repair?

Your thoughts and opinions would be much appreciated. I plan to post the article on this site and will be sure to update this thread when I do. Thanks!

~Marlon


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Never. Not unless one is separated and only technically married. If a couple agrees to live as man and wife, they agree to attend to each others' needs. A married couple becomes one flesh. One doesn't deliberately withhold blood from half of one's own body. None of us are perfect. We all need forgiveness from time to time. If the hurt is too great to forgive, then leave.


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## C_LQQK_ITS_ME (Aug 21, 2010)

My very first post, so here it goes!
_
*Is it okay to with hold sex in a marriage when the issue is not specifically about sex?*_

Since I have this issue with my wife, I would say "NO" to withholding sex in a marriage. But, this has been going on for a while in my marriage, she will not communicate with me about it & I have tried everything I can think of to get through to her and nothing seems to work. At this point I have given up; who needs sex anyway in this marriage, obviously not us!!
I'm just bitter about things now, Sorry!

*How have you / would you want to work through this problem yourself?*

Yes, I have attempted too (many times). Everything, from straight talks about our relationship & intimacy, going out on dates like we did before marriage, to asking her what can I do to improve the overall bedroom experience. 
I got nothing!

*Who "gives" or "gives in" first?*

Obviously, she gives in when she feels like it! In my opinion Women hold all of the cards when it comes to sex, & sex in a relationship or marriage. You don't get anything, until they give you the green light.

 But still bitter about the whole thing!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

C_LQQK_ITS_ME said:


> But still bitter about the whole thing!


 Welcome C LQQK its Me. Very good 1st post. If you have been lurking long, you surely know you are not alone. 

What do you feel is the next step? Are you one who says "I will stay no matter what"? I see that on here all the time. 

I personally don't feel you should without sex from your spouse for long periods of time. If you do this "intentionally"- nomatter the reason, whether lack of forgiveness/holding grudges, bills not being paid, you just aren't in the mood, etc -it is opening up a HUGE rift in the marraige where , if it continues for long periods of time, the ramifacations are usually a complete loss of desire for the spouse withholding-as this helps deal with the pain, unrelenting resentment, anger -which leads to fantasizing about someone else outside of the marraige, a snow balling effect that often times leads to an emotional affair & eventually a physical affair out of desperation & pure frustration. 

Once this happens, oh the work or reconciling & forgiving, it should have never had to come to this place. Would it not have been so much easier to just do the deed, attend to the sexual needs (and they are "needs")of the one who is only dependent on you. We dont' starve them for food for these other reasons, but sex, oh how common it is. 

If our spouses want us to keep our vows, they need to keep theirs - in attending to our sexual needs. If not, I dont see why the other is SO much more quilty. I think it is almost a problem in the formulation of Vows when we marry, I think they need to be more specific in mentioning "making love" to one's spouse on a regular basis. But that is just my personal opionion.


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## Dave321 (Aug 4, 2010)

1)Yes it is,reason if he or she won't or will not respect the other.But other then that no.2)No i haven't/Yes i would work on it if i could and if not then i would find some way or someone to help me with it.3)Well if both can stay out of the children world or zone, i don't believe thats it about giving in.To give in is to avoid and not work at whats at hand.It just not working on it.You don't trade morals.But you give and take on other things.If you leave a person with nothing to give back that person will walk away from the table.Hope it helps


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I think if there's a health issue (that affects or is affected by sex), the marriage is ending and they are only legally married, or in the rebuilding of trust after an affair are the only times it's acceptable to withhold sex. Any other reason, to me, is nothing more than an excuse to be petty and mean to your partner, or a way to hold on to your anger or pain or whatever.


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## C_LQQK_ITS_ME (Aug 21, 2010)

I think you all make valid points regarding this subject matter, and to my issue in particular. 

Unfortunately, as you all have clearly noticed this has been going on for awhile now; and the resentment & bitterness on my part has already set in (not to mention the confusion on my part). 
I still have not come to a decision on just out right leaving as of yet (I struggle with this daily), but the youngest will be leaving in 5yrs (HS Graduation & off to College). I have put up with it for this long, I think this is do able. Plus, I do still love her! Silly isn't it! You still love someone who does you wrong. Love truly is blind & stupid!  
This just isn't how I pictured our marriage ending up after multiple long conversations before we got married in regards to how I was treated in my first marriage.

Yes "*SimplyAmorous*", I have read other posts and I know that I am not the only one with this issue. So I guess that puts all of us in the same boat rowing in circles, until our spouses decide to hop in the boat with us, and start rowing.

Thanks, I appreciate all of the information. If I find a solution to my issue I will happily share it with everyone. I'm not holding my breath though!!


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

with holding sex for reasons other than those mentioned is wrong, especially when both actually enjoy sex when it happens. i have known several seperated and divorced couples that still have sex with each other, i guess the pressure is off at that point and they can jusy enjoy it. i cannot say whether sex was an issue for them before dvorce though.

ok, now for the part that will get me in trouble. women have been using sex as a weapon since the dawn of man, well for the most part anyway. ol grog would just take it when he wanted it but you get my drift. i think it is just natural because it is the ultimate weapon in the battle of the sexes. just like one woman will withhold to make her point another woman will give it up to attract a man (and maybe the same man).


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

MarlonFamilton said:


> Hi!
> 
> I was hoping for some opinions and viewpoints for an article I am working on about handling a problem that comes up very frequently with my clients in marriage counseling: Loss of intimacy & sex.
> 
> Many couples come in with several issues, but often one of the symptoms of their disconnection is that intimacy and sex have declined or gone missing. Something has happened for one partner to be angry or lose trust in the other. Not to stereotype _because it goes both ways_, but I mostly see the female partner resisting the male's requests for sex because she has lost trust in him for some reason or feels neglected or rejected. He then feels rejected and becomes resentful and they become stuck.


The spiral of resentment, exactly.

Also do not be afraid to stereotype in matters of sexual issues. 



> An affair, a health or safety issue or falling out of love are easy reasons to understand, so let's not include those. I'm more interested in when one partner has decided to hold back consistently for weeks or months, for a reason not directly related to sex and rejects the partner. For example, I had a couple where a month after getting married the wife learned about additional debt the husband had, which was a trigger for her due to a past husband hiding a gambling addiction. in her marriage now, intimacy has waned and she withholds to "protect" herself. This of course triggers his insecurities and viola, they are stuck. This is just one example; I'm sure there are millions.


False dichotomy. 

Sexual attraction is emotional and behavioral driven. 

To say perhaps this one thing is sexual and perhaps that one thing is not, will lead to much much cloudiness and confusion!

A woman simply will not be attracted to a man that is not in control of himself. 

Any addiction in a man, whether alcohol or gambling or pornography or video games or whatever will easily be seen as a weakness by a woman.

So to say, even gambling debts or video games or being unable to control basic finances is indeed sexual. Do not miss this!



> *My questions are:*
> 
> Is this okay to with hold sex in a marriage when the issue is not specifically about sex?


Sexual intimacy the the core communication between a man and a woman, so deeply interwoven with emotion that to even scratch the surface on such a forum of this would not do it justice.

But to say just this, as this thread maybe is implying, should a woman for instance continue to perform sexually for a man who she is not attracted to? 

What would this be said any other way, should it be okay to communicate falsely to spare the man's feelings?

I would say absolutely not!

For this would be exactly this, to ask if being dishonest is better than honesty.

If there is not sexual attraction, something is not correct in the relationship. 

So for this question, as with I hope is always the understanding in all of my posts on sexuality, the good man or woman will never be able to negotiate or bribe or in so many other words just this, fake sexual attraction.

Our sexual relationships are in so many ways the purest form of communication us as human beings will ever experience.

That is why they are so emotionally charged and such the ecstacy and powerful and yes even cruel and dark communication between a man and woman at our deepest and most initmate levels, and how and why so much of our emotional health and well being is tied up in this thing we call sex.

So to ask if it is okay to withhold sex, may as well ask if it is okay to decide to sprout wings and fly, so impossible would it be to behave as if sexual attraction were some logical decision to yea or nay.



> How have you / would you want to work through this problem yourself?


The problem is always the same issue and can be fixed in the only one way.

This is of course after making two assumptions: that we are speaking of a nominal healthy man and woman medical issues aside, and we assume the man and woman at some point in time were sexuall attracted to each other and entered into a relationship of their own free choice.

When these assumptions are made, the solution is just this, find out what needs to be done to work out the resentment that is festering and killing the sexual attraction.

Resentment. It is always this.

The spiral of resentment, to say which little tiny event started the spiral, is often a chicken and egg scenario, and so that is not so important.

What is important, and this is the stereotypes that everyone and their brother seems to want to avoid but is the elephant in the room, that the root of sexual issues in any relationship is failure to recognize and honor basic sexual structure in the relationship.

And this is simply this, the primal and ancient communication that today we might call sexual attraction, is indeed a language until itself, and like any language with grammar and structure and meaning and cause and effect, sexual attraction has a beautiful natural structure just as well. 

This structure, what we call sexual attraction, is a structure of behavior and emotion, which is simply cause and effect.

So for thousands of generations before even written speech or alphabets or logic or reason, there is this language of behavior and emotion already in place.

So in all these issues and problems and confusion and resentment for good men and women in relationships, these things are always this one thing: A woman will not be attracted to the man that has not earned this privelege.

And the good man earns this privelege with behavior that leads to emotion.

In the happy scenario for the good man, he demonstrates behavior that shows he is in control of himself and his environment (masculine), and when a woman sees this behavior, it is producing in a woman the emotion of security, trust, and desire, and when these are in place, she is open to be emotionally connected and sexually physical with such a man (feminine).

In the miserable scenario for the good man, he demonstrates behavior that shows he is not in control of himself or his environment (weak), producing in a woman the emotion of insecurity, mistrust, and resentment. And this is only natural, for her safety and survival and that of her offspring, for her to want to be far away from this man and preferable to wind up in the company of the happy man above.

So the happy man and woman together, are not logically deciding to be sexual with one another.

Just as the miserable man and woman together, are not logically deciding to not be sexual.

So in the nutshell, the sexless relationship is perfectly natural when something in the relationship needs fixed.

And it is not going to go completely unnoticed, despite how sometimes I am perceived to be so much as some caveman in these matters, that yes, 99 percent of these sexless marriages the issue is for the good man in the relationship to step up and perform in some area he is neglecting, and the woman, no matter to say she is being a b*tch or a nag or a harpy or cold or frigid or emotional or unfeeling, is doing exactly what she is supposed to be doing.

And this is not surprising to see simply this, as to why it is mostly the woman who is going to iniatate a seperation and divorce, or even in the beginning of the trouble to initiate the dreaded statement "we need to talk" . This is absolutely correct and and natural for the woman, she is behaving feminine.

Again, this is making the two assumptions I am stating above.



> Does the partner wanting intimacy need to give to the other first, or should the one witholding it need to give in first to start repair?


The good man in the relationship needs to step up mostly.

The masculine is very much the behavior motivated by desire, which is predominant in the man and is his natural strenght.

The feminine is very much the feeling, the emotion motivated in response to the masculine behavior.

So it is easy to see, in these scenarios the feminine will be reacting to the masculine, as just our very definition of what is masculine to the feminine, as desire to feeling, as is cause to effect.

To be successful, the change most to always will need to be in the behavior of the good man.



> Your thoughts and opinions would be much appreciated. I plan to post the article on this site and will be sure to update this thread when I do. Thanks!
> 
> ~Marlon


This thread will be most interesting to see play out, and I am looking forward to seeing your article.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

With much respect for Big Bad Wolf, I have to question the notion that women find men who are addicted or not in control of themselves unattractive and long for solid, dependable men. A trip down the romance novel aisle won't show depictions of accountants but gangsters, pirates, biker outlaws, and the like. Murderers in prison sift through marriage proposals while solid, dependable, law-abiding, employed guys are cheated on, denied sex, and latched onto women who can find nothing but fault with them. 
I'm a cop, and a 29 year decorated combat vet. If I'm not manly enough for someone, they can jolly well bite me. I've been dumped by two different wives for two different guys. One was a druggie and the other an alcoholic. Both were physically abusive. Women are often quite attracted to dangerous, unreliable, undependable, abusive turds. I don't understand it, but I've lived long enough to know it's often true. 
One will never read a post on this forum from a Hell's Angel biker, griping that his woman withholds sex from him. I don't believe I've ever met a straight drug dealer who didn't have his pick of eager, attractive women. Dependable and reliable often translates into boring for many women.


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## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

*Is this okay to with hold sex in a marriage when the issue is not specifically about sex?* 
I think to state and have intent to withhold as punishment for behaviours or as leverage to get your way / something you want, is always wrong. However I think there can be a grey area where communication gets messed up and the needs of partners go unrecognised; then I think there can be an unintentional withholding - for example around the time my kids were small, and my H was travelling way alot, we didn't connect sexually as much as he would have wanted. His interpretation of that time was that I was withholding from him, mine is that I was emotionally and physically exhausted and had low drive. Better communication between us would have sorted this out.

*How have you / would you want to work through this problem yourself?*
For us it took a major crisis in the marriage, with his becoming involved in a PA and an EA, for us to get this all out in the open. I was astonished by his anger and resentment towards me. Strangely enough it was as our sex life recovered that he was at his most bitter and vitriolic - he went through a period of time where he was uncomfortable with an increase in attention towards him (but this was over the PA / EA time). 
If I could do the time travel bit and go back and change it all I would say that a change in communication would be the key - on both our parts. 

*Does the partner wanting intimacy need to give to the other first, or should the one witholding it need to give in first to start repair?*
I think either has the potential to succeed or fail but if the person witholding is able to put an end to that behaviour and seek a satisfying sex life with their partner then I think success is more likely. However the former witholder has to recognise their partner will have issues around trust, motive and consistency. For me it means I instigate the majority of the time - though he is quick to respond, and do not take it to heart on the rare times he rejects me. 

We now have sex as frequently as when we first got together and it is passionate and exciting for us both. Now that our sex life is back on track we are slowly building other bridges.


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## Zammo (Aug 9, 2010)

A marriage without sex is merely a legalized friendship.

Actually, actively withholding sex is a form of spousal abuse. 

Yes, communication always helps. But that is just words, not actions. Words won't replace sex or physical intimacy.

As for this notion that a "good man steps up to the plate" is the quick route to becoming "the boring man". What's the easiest way for a husband to lose the respect of his wife? He does everything she demands without hesitation and asks for nothing in return.


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## dblkman (Jul 14, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> With much respect for Big Bad Wolf, I have to question the notion that women find men who are addicted or not in control of themselves unattractive and long for solid, dependable men. A trip down the romance novel aisle won't show depictions of accountants but gangsters, pirates, biker outlaws, and the like. Murderers in prison sift through marriage proposals while solid, dependable, law-abiding, employed guys are cheated on, denied sex, and latched onto women who can find nothing but fault with them.
> I'm a cop, and a 29 year decorated combat vet. If I'm not manly enough for someone, they can jolly well bite me. I've been dumped by two different wives for two different guys. One was a druggie and the other an alcoholic. Both were physically abusive. Women are often quite attracted to dangerous, unreliable, undependable, abusive turds. I don't understand it, but I've lived long enough to know it's often true.
> One will never read a post on this forum from a Hell's Angel biker, griping that his woman withholds sex from him. I don't believe I've ever met a straight drug dealer who didn't have his pick of eager, attractive women. Dependable and reliable often translates into boring for many women.


absolutely hilarious but true LOL


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