# Art vs Propaganda



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

This is getting out of hand, seriously. As one who appreciates art in many forms... I am sick and tired of political groups trying to push their agenda through the media, turning what once was art, into propaganda.

Now there's the thread about the Mad Max movie, these "Men's Right Activists" going 'boycott the movie!' sure, but they aren't the only ones and from looks of things this didn't start with them, but with other groups just like them; "Feminists" in particular, why should political ideals be pushed into the media in the first place?

I just read an article in regards to a game that just came out recently, the Witcher 3, where feminists have (as can be expected) ignorantly attacked its depiction of women - without knowing anything at all about the game itself. The article itself is an excellent read and made a point that applies to all media, here:



> Fiction is supposed to highlight real world issues. Rape is a real world issue. Sexism is something women actually confront in their jobs, at home. Why is it off limits to actually address that with fantasy fiction?
> 
> The answer? It’s not. Art is not supposed to serve a political agenda. That’s what propaganda is for. Art does and should deal with real world issues, make us think, challenge us. What it shouldn’t do is simply confirm our biases.


Why Feminist Frequency Is Dead Wrong About 'The Witcher 3' [Updated]

And has made many great points especially in regards to Art VS Propaganda (hence thread title). This ties into the discussions that SA made in regards to political correctness, censorship, as well as Deejo's thread in regards to Mad Max.

Is it just me or is it just getting out of hand? Media obeys the laws of these groups, art is restricted and many times forced to conform to one of these political agendas - who seem to want to replace fiction that challenges us, to fiction that paints these "utopias". 

Sure, many of these groups take a stand against sexism, racism, discrimination, the lot. But the way it's done nowadays, by trying to sweep/censor the issues in our fiction, WTF?!


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

An age-old conflict. 

Even the renaissance masterpieces could be categorized as propaganda. All depends on if you're looking for social undertones/motives or simply appreciating the talent and beauty.

Eye of the beholder.


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

WARNING: This is going to go a little deep. 

Unfortunately media of any kind is about the message. People want to control the message. The message in whatever form or context influences others. People will profit in some way by influencing other people, so people manipulate the message to influence people to do/conform or dissuade people form doing and thinking certain way. Think marketing but on a larger scale which encompasses everything from our private thoughts/feelings to world politics. 

Depending on where you sit on an issue the message is good or bad because it either conforms to your view or not. Everyone is biased to their point of view. It may be the popular majority view or the minority view. IT doesn't matter because the principle remains the same. Ultimately someone stands to gain by sending a message and they wish to profit from it as a result. 

Think about how everything in the news media today seems to incite some form of political, religious, or racial uproar. Somebody benefits/profits from the stirred up emotions that come into play. What would activists do if their cause was not in the news on a regular basis. Their power, influence and money supply would dry up. So they quickly leverage any event to bring attention to their cause. 

When I say profit I don't even mean something of value like money because it can be applied to thoughts, ideas and even art. In the case of terrorism, sending a message influencing people to destroy doesn't normally fit our definition of profit but in the rawest form it is still profitable if the end result is what you (Sender) wishes it to be. 

Think about some of the terrorists groups out there. They wish to influence and radicalize as many people as possible. They are willing to sacrifice and destroy everything on earth to achieve their goals. When it works they profit from it because it furthers their cause. 

Art is yet another form of sending a message that has the power to influence people.


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## Kitt (Jun 3, 2015)

Interesting topic. Art has been designated from the beginning as a mode of communication. Therefore, to simply dismiss propaganda is to dismiss thought. I'm a writer and I can assure you that though I'm a political journalist, I can get more information/viewpoints passed through my horror writing rather than through mainstream media. Propaganda is a necessary part of communication though it doesn't address conciliation. Art for art's sake is unfortunately an idea or philosophy since people have the need to control opinion...especially the opinions of others. There is nothing new about this as history shows religion,politics and sociology has used art for hundreds of years to push agendas. If anything in the entertainment world promotes conversation, it is a good thing IMHO.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Is it just me or is it just getting out of hand? Media obeys the laws of these groups, art is restricted and many times forced to conform to one of these political agendas - who seem to want to replace fiction that challenges us, to fiction that paints these "utopias".
> 
> Sure, many of these groups take a stand against sexism, racism, discrimination, the lot. But the way it's done nowadays, by trying to sweep/censor the issues in our fiction, WTF?!


Media is propaganda. The question really is whose propaganda is it?

For the most part it is that of big business: those who own the media push their agenda, their politics, and their philosophies. Marginalized groups fight that because they want to get a word in edgewise.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Witcher 3 looks awesome.

Will buy.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)




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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's quite sad 

I guess after seeing how TW3 deals with RL issues and politics, along with its criticism and this article, made me realise how messed up our media can be. Mad Max director even publicly admitted that he consulted with feminists for the film, way to admit "Oh yeah, I like their political views and I want to press it through the film". The thing is, even if we choose to accept that political agendas will always be pushed in our media, the way its done right now, for the most part, is pathetic in my opinion.

People are so afraid to be called racist too it seems, like in Star Wars trailer there was an uproar with a black stormtrooper on the teaser. People were going WTF? Including me - but not because the actor was black, but because I saw it as a plot hole - weren't they all clones of Jango Fett? The hole wasn't fixed prior to the trailer. I enjoy a multi-cultural cast, however most of the time, when it comes to my people at least, they cast a person of my race as a "token ethnic", and use him/her to go "oh hey, we aren't racist". That's all that these political groups ever seem to achieve and it does nothing but annoy people, including me as an ethnic minority! Writer's works are edited to make it more "inclusive", despite the potential damage to the lore and the world they had once envisioned. Oh, and not to mention the LGBT groups, I haven't seen too much of their influence on film, but in games, oh hell they made it all inclusive alright. Instead of games bringing up LGBT issues they shove it down you throat like "this is an ideal world, where these issues don't exist".

Question is: how are people being challenged - at all?

Anyway, this has become the norm in modern media. GTA5 also bears alot of similiar criticism, but thankfully the devs like CDPR, doesn't give a sh-t (I sure as hell hope they don't start conforming)! Many writers/artists when imagining a world, write/paint about their utopia, instead of making their world more believable and when it's more believable it challenges us as a result. It's not the right way IMO. Still, I've come to appreciate whatever I can get, I read to lose myself in a writer's world, I watch movies to be taken on a ride, I play games for both. I find the best pieces, the ones that made me think, were the ones that didn't try push an agenda across, but challenges me in a way that makes me think, re-evaluating my prior conclusions.



> Witcher 3 looks awesome.
> 
> Will buy.


I highly recommend it too! In fact, I would say it's adult entertainment done right. Its primary competitor, DA:I, while although enjoyable, falls short of the mature themes and believable world the devs have created (another victim of these political agendas). So far I'm taking my time with the game sipping it like fine wine, but trust me, there's surprises on every corner. It's slow paced enough where you can play, then go about your business, and come back and the game does a good job of reminding you where you left off - a quality important for me. Yet the world is so surprisingly deep despite its accessibility. Also I have witnessed one of the most shocking, yet ultimately touching (if you made the right choices) quests in the game, in regards to a certain baron and the fate of his miscarried daughter. I'll let you play to see what I'm talking about. You can tell CDPR put much love into the series.

Anyway found this trailer pretty cool: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0i88t0Kacs


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Finding something to be offended by is the new pastime for many. 

Someone will come in and claim they are offended. They will use whatever keyword is trending at the moment. Being called a misogynist or sexist has currently surpassed being called a racist. Then they will shriek, whine and wail until someone comes in and shuts down the content.

Being perpetually offended is an indicator of someone divested from reality with the emotional/intellectual maturity of a toddler.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Does The Walking Dead have the correct number of female, gay, black, transgendered, Zombies yet? It will.


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