# Male Sex Drive



## SockPuppet

Reading the newer posts over last few days, and I have a question... well, a couple.

Do you think your Wife/SO truly understands the male sex drive?

If your a woman, do you understand the male sex drive?
If you said yes to the above, please explain.

Do you think women in general want to understand, or think they truly understand male sexuality?


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## tacoma

SockPuppet said:


> Do you think your Wife/SO truly understands the male sex drive?


Nope



> Do you think women in general want to understand, or think they truly understand male sexuality?


I don`t think most "want" to truly understand it because they believe they already do.

The vast majority of them are so wrong it isn`t even funny.


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## Therealbrighteyes

SockPuppet said:


> Reading the newer posts over last few days, and I have a question... well, a couple.
> 
> Do you think your Wife/SO truly understands the male sex drive?
> 
> If your a woman, do you understand the male sex drive?
> If you said yes to the above, please explain.
> 
> Do you think women in general want to understand, or think they truly understand male sexuality?


I understand it perfectly. What I fail to understand are those who claim to want sex yet all they do is pursue it with women in a caveman way. If you want sex, it's between our ears....not our legs.


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## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I understand it perfectly. What I fail to understand are those who claim to want sex yet all they do is pursue it with women in a caveman way. If you want sex, it's between our ears....not our legs.


Yeah but it`s really the same for men and few women get that brighteyes.


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## Therealbrighteyes

tacoma said:


> Yeah but it`s really the same for men and few women get that brighteyes.


Explain please.


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## Trying2figureitout

My wife...NO WAY


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## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Explain please.


Most women I know have this idea that sex is a purely physical thing for men, no or very little emotion involved and while I`ll admit this is true with a fling or a ONS it isn`t true where the women we love and care for are concerned.

We want our women to want us, desire us, pursue us just as they want all these things.

Most women don`t know this I think because of the stereotypes our culture has created about gender differences.

Personally I don`t think men and women are very different at all sexually.

They say women need an emotional connection to have sex.
This is simply untrue as I`ve had sex with many women where there was no emotional connection.
Trust me, they enjoyed it as much as I.

Then they say men need sex to have an emotional connection.
This is simply untrue as I`ve had emotional connections with women without sex and found them fulfilling in and of themselves.

What I believe is that if you put aside entrenched cultural stigmas we all (both genders) can enjoy sex for the sake of pleasure with little to no emotional investment.

Once there is an emotional investment however we really need the validation of the one we`re invested in to feel loved.

Once we`ve opened up to another emotionally we need them to do the same to be happy sexually or otherwise.

We (both genders) need to feel desired and valued by the ones we love or sex simply sucks.


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## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I understand it perfectly. What I fail to understand are those who claim to want sex yet all they do is pursue it with women in a caveman way. If you want sex, it's between our ears....not our legs.


Never tried the ears - but pretty sure she wouldn't have liked it!


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## Therealbrighteyes

tacoma said:


> Most women I know have this idea that sex is a purely physical thing for men, no or very little emotion involved and while I`ll admit this is true with a fling or a ONS it isn`t true where the women we love and care for are concerned.
> 
> We want our women to want us, desire us, pursue us just as they want all these things.
> 
> Most women don`t know this I think because of the stereotypes our culture has created about gender differences.
> 
> Personally I don`t think men and women are very different at all sexually.
> 
> They say women need an emotional connection to have sex.
> This is imply untrue as I`ve had sex with many women where there was no emotional connection.
> Trust me, they enjoyed it as much as I.
> 
> Then they say men need sex to have an emotional connection.
> This is simply untrue as I`ve had emotional connections with women without sex and found them fulfilling in and of themselves.
> 
> What I believe is that if you put aside entrenched cultural stigmas we all (both genders) can enjoy sex for the sake of pleasure with little to no emotional investment.
> 
> Once there is an emotional investment however we really need the validation of the one we`re invested in to feel loved.
> 
> Once we`ve opened up to another emotionally we need them to do the same to be happy sexually or otherwise.
> 
> We (both genders) need to feel desired and valued by the ones we love or sex simply sucks.


I couldn't agree with you more! I hate these stereotypes about genders. All women "give up" sex and all men "pursue" it and all men need is a cold breeze and they are good. While there are exceptions to every rule, I think in general we ALL desire an emotional connection with our sexual partner.

I think for women, the lack of sex starts when they are no longer being courted, if you will. What I mean is the partner is ignoring the wife until 11 and then suddenly wants sex. To HIM, it is reconnecting with his wife. To HER, it is I've been abandoned all day and now he wants to play grab azz?

I also think a lot of girls are still raised with this unhealthy notion of sex. Read around her enough and you see a general theme. Women are the "gatekeepers". In a loving relationship there should be no gate and no keeper but I see it often mentioned here. What does that tell women? That their sexuality is a fortress to be guarded. No wonder they aren't allowed in their own mind to enjoy sex....they are too busy "protecting" it.

I will say this and I don't mean to get too argumentative but I have wanted to say this for a LONG time. I see a lot of men here who want their wives to be sexually open, try new things, take liberal chances in the bedroom yet they ridicule their wives sexual past. If you (not YOU literally) mock your partner for their past sexual life, chances are you will never get a partner who ever exposes themselves like that. It also reinforces that women should feel guilty about their sexuality.


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## Therealbrighteyes

michzz said:


> I'm pretty sure "spread 'em baby" doesn't work for the between the ears sex.
> 
> Just sayin.'


Doesn't work for what's between my legs either. Just sayin'.


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## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I will say this and I don't mean to get too argumentative but I have wanted to say this for a LONG time. I see a lot of men here who want their wives to be sexually open, try new things, take liberal chances in the bedroom yet they ridicule their wives sexual past. If you (not YOU literally) mock your partner for their past sexual life, chances are you will never get a partner who ever exposes themselves like that. It also reinforces that women should feel guilty about their sexuality.


Excellent point...


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## tacoma

I agree with every word you`ve said.

However at the risk of being argumentative myself I`d like to offer an explanation of this problem you`ve mentioned and I`ve witnessed as well...




Therealbrighteyes said:


> I will say this and I don't mean to get too argumentative but I have wanted to say this for a LONG time. I see a lot of men here who want their wives to be sexually open, try new things, take liberal chances in the bedroom yet they ridicule their wives sexual past. If you (not YOU literally) mock your partner for their past sexual life, chances are you will never get a partner who ever exposes themselves like that. It also reinforces that women should feel guilty about their sexuality.


This I believe is a direct result of an "unhealthy notion of sex" that men are ingrained with from an early age.

I`m not excusing it because it disgusts me when I see it on these boards but I`m pretty sure it comes from the cultural notion that our wives must be "pure" and untouched to be worthy of us.

When I think of all the harmful ignorant stigmas both genders in our culture are ingrained with about the opposite sex I often wonder how any of us manage to pull off successful relationships at all.

Thinking about it in this light a 50% divorce rate sounds pretty good actually.


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## Therealbrighteyes

tacoma said:


> I agree with every word you`ve said.
> 
> However at the risk of being argumentative myself I`d like to offer an explanation of this problem you`ve mentioned and I`ve witnessed as well...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This I believe is a direct result of an "unhealthy notion of sex" that men are ingrained with from an early age.
> 
> I`m not excusing it because it disgusts me when I see it on these boards but I`m pretty sure it comes from the cultural notion that our wives must be "pure" and untouched to be worthy of us.
> 
> When I think of all the harmful ignorant stigmas both genders in our culture are ingrained with about the opposite sex I often wonder how any of us manage to pull off successful relationships at all.
> 
> Thinking about it in this light a 50% divorce rate sounds pretty good actually.


I've heard this term more times than I care to count: "There are girls you bang and girls you marry". In my lifetime I have never heard a woman say that about a guy. Why is that? I'll tell you why. Because despite our "liberated" society, we still view women who enjoy sex as being less than in some way. I cannot understand it nor do I want to. A man who is a man [email protected] is a player. Not a derogatory term and lauded as being the "alpha" male. A woman on the other hand who acts the same way is a s!ut and sadly, it isn't just men saying that about her. Women say it time and time again.

So men want to marry the chaste woman. The woman you "bring home to Mom" yet fast forward a few years and they are here moaning that their wife is lacking in the bedroom. Guess what? They brought it all on themselves when they valued this puritanical bullsh!t over the person themself. 

Knowing how society views sexually expressive women, is it any wonder why women have to "guard" their sexuality? Do you think a sexually repressed woman has a clue or cares about a man's sexuality? Yeah, no.


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## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> So men want to marry the chaste woman. The woman you "bring home to Mom" yet fast forward a few years and they are here moaning that their wife is lacking in the bedroom. Guess what? They brought it all on themselves when they valued this puritanical bullsh!t over the person themself.


Again I completely agree but it almost isn`t even the fault of the men who do this.

They are raised believing this idiotic notion is right and true.
Just as women are raised believing sex is a playing piece in the game of marriage.

Indoctrination is a difficult thing to shake when it`s ingrained from childhood across an entire cultures population.
To fix it you need to change the entire cultural status quo which I actually believe is happening in our lifetime.

My children don`t have this mentality because they`ve been directly taught that their cultures ideas on sex and gender are wrong and inequitable.
I don`t think I`m the only parent of my generation who has taught this to their kids.

Feminism has fixed this problem, it`s just taking society a long time to realize it.

Once the last of the rational puritans have died out their ignorant taboos will die with them.

At least I hope so.


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## bubbly girl

SockPuppet said:


> If your a woman, do you understand the male sex drive?
> If you said yes to the above, please explain.
> 
> Do you think women in general want to understand, or think they truly understand male sexuality?


Nope, I don't truly understand it, and probably never will since I'm not a man, and don't have the same amount of testosterone running through me. I would like to understand it better and enjoy reading up in the men's clubhouse. Who better to learn about men than from men.


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## Therealbrighteyes

tacoma said:


> Again I completely agree but it almost isn`t even the fault of the men who do this.
> 
> They are raised believing this idiotic notion is right and true.
> Just as women are raised believing sex is a playing piece in the game of marriage.
> 
> Indoctrination is a difficult thing to shake when it`s ingrained from childhood across an entire cultures population.
> To fix it you need to change the entire cultural status quo which I actually believe is happening in our lifetime.
> 
> My children don`t have this mentality because they`ve been directly taught that their cultures ideas on sex and gender are wrong and inequitable.
> I don`t think I`m the only parent of my generation who has taught this to their kids.
> 
> Feminism has fixed this problem, it`s just taking society a long time to realize it.
> 
> Once the last of the rational puritans have died out their ignorant taboos will die with them.
> 
> At least I hope so.


Totally agree.

So going back to the male sex drive, what is it you want us listening women to know?


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## LovesHerMan

I certainly didn't understand the male sex drive until my husband helped me to mature sexually. My notions were derived from not understanding how men could pay a prostitute for sex, how they could rape a woman, and how they could sexually harass a subordinate.

I did not understand that my husband connected to me emotionally through sex. I had the "eewww" factor of a little girl toward male genitalia, and I did not know how my body worked when I was young.

Hooray for a patient husband who helped me learn the joy of a good sex life!


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## Enchantment

A woman can never truly know what it feels like for a man in regards to his sex drive.

No different than a man not being able to truly know what it feels like for a woman in regards to her sex drive and all of the 'female' issues that she goes through as part of her reproductive life.

Just because you don't get to go through the exact same experience does not mean that you can't have compassion, caring, and empathy. It doesn't mean that we don't go through the same human emotions.

And, I still think there's lots of work to be done to get to the point where women's sexuality is as vaunted as men's, where it is not shamed, and where men don't have to put all of their 'emotional eggs', so to speak, into just a single basket of their sexuality. 

For both sexes, it should be a healthy mix of both, and it is unfortunate that from a cultural perspective this has been out of whack - and I still don't see it changing much.

We might be in a hyper-sexualized world right now, but I haven't seen a lot of traction into more positive models yet, although I do see a lot of unhealthy ones being established.


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## LovesHerMan

Great post, Enchantment. I agree, despite our hyper-sexualized culture, men and women do not understand each other's role in a good sex life.


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## bubbly girl

Very well said, Enchantment.


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## Halien

SockPuppet said:


> Reading the newer posts over last few days, and I have a question... well, a couple.
> 
> Do you think your Wife/SO truly understands the male sex drive?
> 
> Do you think women in general want to understand, or think they truly understand male sexuality?


Sadly, it never really occurred to my wife that she wasn't 100% knowledgeable about my sex drive. I don't mean it to sound critical, but it was so deeply ingrained that the hundreds and hundreds of discussions I initiated just failed to register. To her, for a man, it is a biological drive, and that's it. And a way for HER to connect. We have a very active sex life, but I don't think that she'll ever understand the deep loss I feel as a result of it being so misunderstood. Its not a normal situation, I guess, because a by-product of my wife's bipolar consition is the inability to integrate another person's feelings into her own. I only added this to this thread because I think everyone exists on some degree of a sliding scale when it comes to being able to truly understand another person.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I had absolutely no clue how important a man's sex drive is for him until just a few months ago. This is something my husband never brought up as he has a difficult time discussing sex with me. He has ALWAYS put my needs in front of his. He is a fabulous husband and we have always had a fantastic marriage. Since my neck injury, the sex went on the back burner. I've tried to do my best to keep him happy, but on my bad pain days I did turn him down a few times. The rejection must of been horrible! I just recently I bought a natural testosterone creme for women from amazon. It was a bit pricey, but whoa... It's worth every penny I spent. I only had to use the creme for 2 weeks to get my own drive in gear. I fully apologized to my hubby for rejecting him in the past. We still need to becareful and I can not move my neck, but I've found ways to make it work. The tables have turned and I'm the one who initiates just about daily. Our marriage has gotten even better now with the frequent love making. I'm just as much into it as he. We are much more affectionate toward one another and it brought back the passion. It's a beautiful thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ManDup

I've never seen a thread which had more things with which I agree. Awesome. Just to add my two cents, some women seem to have the opinion that men, with their high sex drives, are somehow perverted. The women who best seem to understand that isn't true also seem to have a high partner number. High partner numbers might indicate a proclivity to cheat and an inability to bond completely. This goes for both genders. 

However, there is a double standard on premarital partner numbers, but it has a rational basis. It comes down to paternity uncertainty. Women always know the kid is theirs. The men who didn't care didn't survive. In this modern age one can know for sure, although knowing a kid is yours doesn't take away from the sting of your wife having an affair. 

A man who cheats is just as poor a partner as a woman who cheats in this day and age, so that side of the equation is equal. And a man who doesn't bond with his partner is just as bad as a woman who doesn't bond with her partner. So the ideal situation is still two virgins getting together and staying together, but many of us don't that choice. The drawback is that the partners are inexperienced and don't know how to please each other, and they both lose out.

So what is the solution to the dilemma? If you already have high numbers and are ok with a partner having high numbers, the trick is to find a partner who has never cheated. That is the best predictor of their faithfulness. How you know for sure I don't know, but there are always red flags with habitual liars, so take your time and find out, no matter how good the sex is.

You all have been waiting for the non-PC part of my presentation, so here it is. If you are not ok with high number partners for whatever reason, your solution is to become good at "training" sexual ability. You have to be a leader in that department, and you have to exercise self-control if you want your partner to initiate sometimes. 

For men, leadership is sexy and attractive, so you need to learn it anyway for a satisfying sex life. For women, look for the outlier man who is submissive, or "train" your man to be more alpha if that is what it takes to maintain attraction to him.


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## Arnold

tacoma said:


> Most women I know have this idea that sex is a purely physical thing for men, no or very little emotion involved and while I`ll admit this is true with a fling or a ONS it isn`t true where the women we love and care for are concerned.
> 
> We want our women to want us, desire us, pursue us just as they want all these things.
> 
> Most women don`t know this I think because of the stereotypes our culture has created about gender differences.
> 
> Personally I don`t think men and women are very different at all sexually.
> 
> They say women need an emotional connection to have sex.
> This is simply untrue as I`ve had sex with many women where there was no emotional connection.
> Trust me, they enjoyed it as much as I.
> 
> Then they say men need sex to have an emotional connection.
> This is simply untrue as I`ve had emotional connections with women without sex and found them fulfilling in and of themselves.
> 
> What I believe is that if you put aside entrenched cultural stigmas we all (both genders) can enjoy sex for the sake of pleasure with little to no emotional investment.
> 
> Once there is an emotional investment however we really need the validation of the one we`re invested in to feel loved.
> 
> Once we`ve opened up to another emotionally we need them to do the same to be happy sexually or otherwise.
> 
> We (both genders) need to feel desired and valued by the ones we love or sex simply sucks.


I have found this to be true, as well.

Yet, folks still want to beleive there is this huge difference and want to cast the genders into stereotypes.

I guess sterotypng just makes folks feel better about something or another.

I cannot begin tocount the times when I was younger and better looking that i got hit on by a woman who just wanted sex. Yet we hear this "need an emotinal connection" deal.
Are the cougars looking for connection with their 22 year old boys?


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## Arnold

nice777guy said:


> Excellent point...



Really. I don't think I have seen guys ridiculing their wives' sexual pasts. Seriously?


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## ManDup

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> So going back to the male sex drive, what is it you want us listening women to know?


More to the point of the thread, though, if you are a woman who's husband has a higher sex drive than you, I hope you will look at that situation with some compassion rather than revulsion. The instinct to see it as a weakness is strong, because in the wild there are very few women who can't get sex whenever they want it. They may not know it, but it's true. Studies have shown that women propositioning random men meet with much higher success rate than the other way around.

So, with your knowledge that it's just not that hard to get laid, you might look at a man begging to be satisfied as weak. Instead you might try compassion; seeing him in his situation, not projecting yourself into it. Women have a natural ability for compassion anyway, I just suggest this is a time to exercise it. Rather than see him as pervy, or needy, or bad at seduction, try to see him as a man with needs which he doesn't know how to get fulfilled, and see him as frustrated.

The issue that many men have is that they don't know what their wives want consistently. The problem is that over the menstrual cycle, what a woman wants changes drastically. So the feedback loop is broken.


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## Therealbrighteyes

ManDup said:


> I've never seen a thread which had more things with which I agree. Awesome. Just to add my two cents, some women seem to have the opinion that men, with their high sex drives, are somehow perverted. The women who best seem to understand that isn't true also seem to have a high partner number. High partner numbers might indicate a proclivity to cheat and an inability to bond completely. This goes for both genders.
> 
> However, there is a double standard on premarital partner numbers, but it has a rational basis. It comes down to paternity uncertainty. Women always know the kid is theirs. The men who didn't care didn't survive. In this modern age one can know for sure, although knowing a kid is yours doesn't take away from the sting of your wife having an affair.
> 
> A man who cheats is just as poor a partner as a woman who cheats in this day and age, so that side of the equation is equal. And a man who doesn't bond with his partner is just as bad as a woman who doesn't bond with her partner. So the ideal situation is still two virgins getting together and staying together, but many of us don't that choice. The drawback is that the partners are inexperienced and don't know how to please each other, and they both lose out.
> 
> So what is the solution to the dilemma? If you already have high numbers and are ok with a partner having high numbers, the trick is to find a partner who has never cheated. That is the best predictor of their faithfulness. How you know for sure I don't know, but there are always red flags with habitual liars, so take your time and find out, no matter how good the sex is.
> 
> You all have been waiting for the non-PC part of my presentation, so here it is. If you are not ok with high number partners for whatever reason, your solution is to become good at "training" sexual ability. You have to be a leader in that department, and you have to exercise self-control if you want your partner to initiate sometimes.
> 
> For men, leadership is sexy and attractive, so you need to learn it anyway for a satisfying sex life. For women, look for the outlier man who is submissive, or "train" your man to be more alpha if that is what it takes to maintain attraction to him.


In the age of Maury, why is a woman with a sexual past viewed as less than a man with the same number? You mentioned certainty in paternity but a simple test can prove this. I think there has to be more to it than that, right? :scratchhead:


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## ManDup

Therealbrighteyes said:


> In the age of Maury, why is a woman with a sexual past viewed as less than a man with the same number? You mentioned certainty in paternity but a simple test can prove this. I think there has to be more to it than that, right? :scratchhead:


It's evolutionary. The men who didn't care about paternity didn't survive. So even though it's a relic of the past, it still exists.


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## Therealbrighteyes

ManDup said:


> More to the point of the thread, though, if you are a woman who's husband has a higher sex drive than you, I hope you will look at that situation with some compassion rather than revulsion. The instinct to see it as a weakness is strong, because in the wild there are very few women who can't get sex whenever they want it. They may not know it, but it's true. Studies have shown that women propositioning random men meet with much higher success rate than the other way around.
> 
> So, with your knowledge that it's just not that hard to get laid, you might look at a man begging to be satisfied as weak. Instead you might try compassion; seeing him in his situation, not projecting yourself into it. Women have a natural ability for compassion anyway, I just suggest this is a time to exercise it. Rather than see him as pervy, or needy, or bad at seduction, try to see him as a man with needs which he doesn't know how to get fulfilled, and see him as frustrated.
> 
> The issue that many men have is that they don't know what their wives want consistently. The problem is that over the menstrual cycle, what a woman wants changes drastically. So the feedback loop is broken.


You have a point but hear me out. Many many women view a man's sexual needs as "weak" as you put it because they come off as needy/whiney/desperate. The fact is, at one point that wasn't the case or the woman wouldn't have married him. At one point he wasn't "begging" for sex at all. A breakdown if you will occurred and now she DOES see him as loserish and no woman has sexual attractions towards those types of men. 
Empathy goes a LONG way but at what point is it empathy or just a pity screw. The later seems pretty hollow.
My point is, yes women need to be more in tune with men and their needs. The same can be said for a man exhibiting attractive behavior.


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## Therealbrighteyes

ManDup said:


> It's evolutionary. The men who didn't care about paternity didn't survive. So even though it's a relic of the past, it still exists.


Ah, okay. Well the problem with that then is until there is a shift in this way of thinking, women will always lie about their number, harness their sexuality and not speak openly about their needs. This leads to resentment and we all know what resentment in a woman leads to.....celibacy.


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## Arnold

Do most folks feel that men, in general, have higher sex drive? It seems this premise is just accepted as a given by some.
There is some evidence that past age 35 or so, women's drive surpasses that of a man. Testesteron is diminishin in the mn, while the balance between estrogen and testosteron in the woman is beginning to tip in favor of testosterone.
Women can have multiple orgasms. Thye do not need recovery time to continue. Thye can accomodate multiple partners in a short time span. They are the number one consumers of vibrators. Thye do not need Viagra as they age.


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## Enchantment

Arnold said:


> Do most folks feel that men, in general, have higher sex drive? It seems this premise is just accepted as a given by some.
> There is some evidence that past age 35 or so, women's drive surpasses that of a man. Testesteron is diminishin in the mn, while the balance between estrogen and testosteron in the woman is beginning to tip in favor of testosterone.
> Women can have multiple orgasms. Thye do not need recovery time to continue. Thye can accomodate multiple partners in a short time span. They are the number one consumers of vibrators. Thye do not need Viagra as they age.


From a purely hormonal perspective, yes, the 'average' man's sex drive based upon his testosterone levels will surely overpower the 'average' woman's sex drive any day.

Women's hormonal mix can be complex, and not every woman who starts to go down the hormonal imbalance path will have their scales tip favorably into having a higher percentage of testosterone. I have not. My progesterone AND testosterone have both decreased as I have become more estrogen dominant during peri-menopause. So, it's a crap shoot at best for women in that department.

BUT, I contend that a woman's sexuality and drive when UNLEASHED from the fetters of her mind and 'good girl' dogma could probably blow any man's away - and hopefully it is her husband there to catch that wave. Indeed, he can be instrumental in starting and keeping it going. 

The problem is that most women have their sexuality kept carefully tethered - I think that often they have not even realized that it is tethered - and so they will never know what they could have if they could but only 'unbind' themselves.

What an awesome thing it can be if you can but unleash yourself - and doing it within the marital bed is one of the best and safest places for that to be done. But, most of us seem to like having the wool pulled over our eyes. :scratchhead:


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## ManDup

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You have a point but hear me out. Many many women view a man's sexual needs as "weak" as you put it because they come off as needy/whiney/desperate. The fact is, at one point that wasn't the case or the woman wouldn't have married him. At one point he wasn't "begging" for sex at all. A breakdown if you will occurred and now she DOES see him as loserish and no woman has sexual attractions towards those types of men.
> Empathy goes a LONG way but at what point is it empathy or just a pity screw. The later seems pretty hollow.
> My point is, yes women need to be more in tune with men and their needs. The same can be said for a man exhibiting attractive behavior.


Good point. Nobody likes a pity screw. The man has to take some responsibility and up his game in the right way.


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## Deejo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ah, okay. Well the problem with that then is until there is a shift in this way of thinking, women will always lie about their number, harness their sexuality and not speak openly about their needs. This leads to resentment and we all know what resentment in a woman leads to.....celibacy.


You're making a fallacy of presumption. We've seen plenty of threads here about dudes that thought they were marrying a virgin, and then discovered their bride was in fact ... not. And they couldn't let it go. It had no impact upon the sexual desire of the wife, but the husband was the one building resentment. In my mind, that simply ISN'T the norm ... and has painful little to do with the overall expression of sexuality for either gender. It's a subset ... or at best a cultural expectation. Generally, not a Western one.

In both of my LTR's, six years and fourteen years (9 married) I had full disclosure with both partners. No harsh judgements resulted. If memory serves, in the case of both, we went at like rabbits immediately after the 'talk'.

However, over time, both relationships went sexless. From my perspective, either partner can have a COMPLETE understanding of the sexual needs of the other ... but if you don't feel compelled to meet them ... then that's it. 

My personal and core belief system NOW, is that if you are doing your best to meet needs, maintain respect and attraction, and loving, willing, joyful, sex does not result? 

It's time to pack it in, regardless of your gender.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> You're making a fallacy of presumption. We've seen plenty of threads here about dudes that thought they were marrying a virgin, and then discovered their bride was in fact ... not. And they couldn't let it go. It had no impact upon the sexual desire of the wife, but the husband was the one building resentment. In my mind, that simply ISN'T the norm ... and has painful little to do with the overall expression of sexuality for either gender. It's a subset ... or at best a cultural expectation. Generally, not a Western one.
> 
> In both of my LTR's, six years and fourteen years (9 married) I had full disclosure with both partners. No harsh judgements resulted. If memory serves, in the case of both, we went at like rabbits immediately after the 'talk'.
> 
> However, over time, both relationships went sexless. From my perspective, either partner can have a COMPLETE understanding of the sexual needs of the other ... but if you don't feel compelled to meet them ... then that's it.
> 
> My personal and core belief system NOW, is that if you are doing your best to meet needs, maintain respect and attraction, and loving, willing, joyful, sex does not result?
> 
> It's time to pack it in, regardless of your gender.


My example was probably a bad one. What I getting at is that the double standard IS alive and well and if we are being honest, women are not as free to express themselves sexually as men. Maintaining the "good girl" status is essential. Men suffer from this as well as they are the ones unhappy with their sex life.
Am I making any sense?


----------



## Deejo

I just don't see the correlation in a married relationship. If you are talking about teens ... I get it. And my expectation is that teens know very little about the socio-cultural and emotional ramifications of sex when they start having it.

I just don't see how this applies to adults. Unless you are suggesting that the damage is already done by the time you're an adult.

I had no interest in marrying a virgin. I wanted to marry someone that was intrinsically comfortable, at ease with, and enthusiastic about their sexuality. Which they were ... until the relationship shifted towards long term, and then the proverbial crap came out of the woodwork. Intimacy issues, sexual guilt, repression, abuse ... I'd like to know how THAT happens.

My point being that 'understanding' is circumstantial. Through year 2 in both relationships, if you were to ask my partners if they understood my sexual needs ... both would have answered with an enthusiastic and emotionally positive 'yes'.

If you were to ask them the same question at the terminus of both relationships, they still would have answered 'yes' ... but the truth is they didn't - or they had absolutely no desire to make those needs as important as their own.

And I don't think that happened because I was not interested in meeting their needs. If anything, I likely would have met with better outcomes had I been more 'caveman'. Or ... as I believe now, neither of those LTR's would have remained LTR's.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> I just don't see the correlation in a married relationship. If you are talking about teens ... I get it. And my expectation is that teens know very little about the socio-cultural and emotional ramifications of sex when they start having it.
> 
> I just don't see how this applies to adults. Unless you are suggesting that the damage is already done by the time you're an adult.
> 
> I had no interest in marrying a virgin. I wanted to marry someone that was intrinsically comfortable, at ease with, and enthusiastic about their sexuality. Which they were ... until the relationship shifted towards long term, and then the proverbial crap came out of the woodwork. Intimacy issues, sexual guilt, repression, abuse ... I'd like to know how THAT happens.
> 
> My point being that 'understanding' is circumstantial. Through year 2 in both relationships, if you were to ask my partners if they understood my sexual needs ... both would have answered with an enthusiastic and emotionally positive 'yes'.
> 
> If you were to ask them the same question at the terminus of both relationships, they still would have answered 'yes' ... but the truth is they didn't - or they had absolutely no desire to make those needs as important as their own.
> 
> And I don't think that happened because I was not interested in meeting their needs. If anything, I likely would have met with better outcomes had I been more 'caveman'. Or ... as I believe now, neither of those LTR's would have remained LTR's.


I think you are misunderstanding me. I am saying that since many married women have grown up in a society where female sexuality is "dirty" they are sexually repressed if you will and that absolutely detracts from their marriage.

Care to enlighten me as to what your two partners failed to understand about you? I heard Tacoma talk about that men are emotional with their sexuality as well but then I hear just as many men (not this thread) say that men can compartmentalize sex. Those cancel each other out so we women are left with a zero in understanding that aspect. 

For what it's worth, would it be better received if us women said we TRY to understand you men sexually or does that not matter because we don't actually "get" it?


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I've heard this term more times than I care to count: "There are girls you bang and girls you marry". In my lifetime I have never heard a woman say that about a guy.


Then you're not paying attention. Plenty of women bang the jocks and then marry someone that they can actually hold a conversation with and who may be able to pay a bill or two.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> Then you're not paying attention. Plenty of women bang the jocks and then marry someone that they can actually hold a conversation with and who may be able to pay a bill or two.


Yes but the jocks don't walk away with a sullied reputation. Big difference.


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Yes but the jocks don't walk away with a sullied reputation. Big difference.


Neither do most of the ladies that we "just bang".


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> Neither do most of the ladies that we "just bang".


Fantasy land just called for you Kobo.


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Fantasy land just called for you Kobo.


No, it's called reality and not the reality where the whole world is against women. Most of the women we "just bang" end up being married to someone who felt they are marriage material. 
They don't end up living with cats because the whole world thinks they're *****s.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> No, it's called reality and not the reality where the whole world is against women. Most of the women we "just bang" end up being married to someone who felt they are marriage material.
> They don't end up living with cats because the whole world thinks they're *****s.


At what point did I say whole world against women? I didn't. What I said was that a woman who is promiscuious and has a higher number is viewed as less than and certainly less than her male counterpart.
Care to weigh in on the male sex drive? So far only Tacoma has said anything.


----------



## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Care to enlighten me as to what your two partners failed to understand about you? I heard Tacoma talk about that men are emotional with their sexuality as well but then I hear just as many men (not this thread) say that men can compartmentalize sex. Those cancel each other out so we women are left with a zero in understanding that aspect.


I don`t understand nor like the term compartmentalized when speaking of this topic.
I don`t think it`s an adequate or correct description but I understand what is trying to be said by it.

It`s meant to show how a man can separate love from sex.

Men can separate love from sex just as women can, it`s not a male trait it`s a human trait.

Women can`t admit to it because of the sexual repression you`ve mentioned earlier, hell I don`t think many of them can admit it to themselves or they loose that "good girl" feeling.

I said before I`ve had many flings and a few ONS where there was no love involved it was pure selfish physical pleasure on both my and the womans part.

Now when we`re discussing an emotionally invested relationship I believe it`s more difficult to separate love from sex for both sexes but not impossible.

How many posts have you seen around here where a guy is feeling hesitant to fulfill his woman's rape or submission fantasy because he just can`t bring himself to treat her that way?

That`s because he loves her and has a hard time treating her like a sex object even when that`s what she wants.

He doesn`t know how to separate his love for her from the pure sex she wants.

We both have these problems but we are both capable of overcoming them.
It`s just harder for women due to the stigma.



> For what it's worth, would it be better received if us women said we TRY to understand you men sexually or does that not matter because we don't actually "get" it?


As far as I`m concerned sincerely trying is going to allow you to "get it" sooner or later but I`ll say again I don`t really think our standard sexualities are much different to begin with.

I think both genders are stuck in the stigmas our culture injects into us.

Sincerely trying is going to require tossing those stigmas aside sooner or later.


----------



## Deejo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I think you are misunderstanding me. I am saying that since many married women have grown up in a society where female sexuality is "dirty" they are sexually repressed if you will and that absolutely detracts from their marriage.


You mean repressed with their husband ... right? But it's back to 'dirty' when it's the handy-man pinning her knees behind her ears.

Lots of misunderstanding going on. You missed my point. There was no repression, and it wasn't dirty until the relationship morphed into something that was supposed to be for a lifetime. I think you can find this is a common factor in many marriages without defaulting to the stereotype of a bait and switch partner, be they male or female. In my case at the point when both women were destined to become wives and mothers, is when what had been fun, free and enjoyable, suddenly became a chore, dirty, and a source of anxiety. I think THAT is where the sexual mind-shift takes place, not that if they have had lots of sex prior to being married that men find them, 'sullied'.



Therealbrighteyes said:


> Care to enlighten me as to what your two partners failed to understand about you?


Didn't apply. From my perspective it was what I failed to understand about them. Both relationships simply became far too comfortable, and the issues that manifested in both women, weren't things that I created ... they were already there. Spent a long time trying to figure this out ... trust me. I don't blame them. Did the best I could with the information I had at the time.



Therealbrighteyes said:


> I heard Tacoma talk about that men are emotional with their sexuality as well but then I hear just as many men (not this thread) say that men can compartmentalize sex. Those cancel each other out so we women are left with a zero in understanding that aspect.


I don't believe that either gender is more or less likely to compartmentalize sex.

I can't. I need an emotional connection. And I need sex to feed and grow that emotional connection. I have lowered my threshold for that emotional connection, but I simply couldn't have sex with someone I wasn't attracted to, or felt a connection with.

Probably my biggest failing was being unable to find a coping mechanism, means to correct, or simply end those relationships where I became sex starved, therefore, love starved. I wanted to feel loved, therefore I fell into the trap of feeling like if I did one more nice thing ... she'd love me, and have sex with me. All the while making her LESS attracted.



Therealbrighteyes said:


> For what it's worth, would it be better received if us women said we TRY to understand you men sexually or does that not matter because we don't actually "get" it?


Not at all. Plenty of women here 'get it'. And to me, the getting it, means benefits for both partners - not just men.

I am actually at a point where I don't much care for making it Men V Women. To my mind there is simply what works, and what doesn't. The composition of what works and what doesn't may differ slightly based on gender.

Communication is still king. Tragedy is that it degrades over time rather than grows stronger.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Might I ask this: Men here and men I know in my real life say they need sex to feel an emotional connection but that is opposite of what I just read in this post. I think if men TRULY need the emotional connection first before sex, women and men would be on the same page.


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> At what point did I say whole world against women? I didn't. What I said was that a woman who is promiscuious and has a higher number is viewed as less than and certainly less than her male counterpart.
> Care to weigh in on the male sex drive? So far only Tacoma has said anything.


This is what I responded to:

*I've heard this term more times than I care to count: "There are girls you bang and girls you marry". In my lifetime I have never heard a woman say that about a guy.*

That's inaccurate to think that women don't put men into categories. As in Guys I screw and Guys I marry.

Then you said:

*Yes but the jocks don't walk away with a sullied reputation. Big difference. *

Most women who have been the ladies we "just bang" don't walk away with a sullied reputation. The only place this generally happens is high school/college.


As for the male sex drive, Most men don't understand their own sex drive so why would I expect a woman to. I don't need a woman to understand my sex drive only be as willing to meet my needs as I am hers (Which I probably don't understand fully).


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Might I ask this: Men here and men I know in my real life say they need sex to feel an emotional connection but that is opposite of what I just read in this post. I think if men TRULY need the emotional connection first before sex, women and men would be on the same page.


Some men do some don't. There is no pretty basket we can tie with a nice bow. Also, the younger the man the less likely they'll need to have an emotional connection. If you're asking me do I need an emotional connection to have sex the answer would be no. If you ask me do I desire an emotional connection with my wife the answer would be yes.


----------



## Deejo

And here is one to blow the bell curve.

I have a relationship with the ex-fiance. We have since talked about the events of 17 years ago.

You talk about women wanting that deep emotional connection?

She said to me, "Do you understand what happened? Why I freaked out?"

My answer was; "I got too close. It all became too intimate."
To which she responded, "That was exactly it. I was terrified of being that open and feeling vulnerable."

So ... her resolution was to invest herself in a relationship with another man that was far less intimate, and where she was subsequently abused. 

Ain't life funny?


----------



## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Might I ask this: Men here and men I know in my real life say they need sex to feel an emotional connection but that is opposite of what I just read in this post. I think if men TRULY need the emotional connection first before sex, women and men would be on the same page.


That`s just a bunch of new age self help bull**** as far as I`m concerned.

Men and women are already on the same page biologically.

If my wife became physically incapable of sex tomorrow would I loose my love for her?
I don`t think so.

Was my wife in love with me before we had sex?
Most definitely not.

We were just ****ing around and fell in love.
I don`t think the sex really had anything to do with it beyond compelling us back for more which enabled us the time and intimacy to form that emotional connection.

Here`s the kicker, I don`t think women need an emotional connection before having sex any more than a man needs sex before an emotional connection.

If that were true no woman would ever have casual sex and no man would ever have an emotional connection to a woman.

It`s a brand new "stigma" society is throwing at us.

Sex can and does indeed strengthen the bond between two people who have an emotional connection and over time can chemically cause an emotional connection but one isn`t required before the other.

If you think about it it would be a sick cosmic joke if it were true. No relationship could even begin let alone last if this situation was a requirement.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

tacoma said:


> That`s just a bunch of new age self help bull**** as far as I`m concerned.
> 
> Men and women are already on the same page biologically.
> 
> If my wife became physically incapable of sex tomorrow would I loose my love for her?
> I don`t think so.
> 
> Was my wife in love with me before we had sex?
> Most definitely not.
> 
> We were just ****ing around and fell in love.
> I don`t think the sex really had anything to do with it beyond compelling us back for more which enabled us the time and intimacy to form that emotional connection.
> 
> Here`s the kicker, I don`t think women need an emotional connection before having sex any more than a man needs sex before an emotional connection.
> 
> If that were true no woman would ever have casual sex and no man would ever have an emotional connection to a woman.
> 
> It`s a brand new "stigma" society is throwing at us.
> 
> Sex can and does indeed strengthen the bond between two people who have an emotional connection and over time can chemically cause an emotional connection but one isn`t required before the other.
> 
> If you think about it it would be a sick cosmic joke if it were true. No relationship could even begin let alone last if this situation was a requirement.


I think men and women are on the same page sexually more than people want to admit....as you said. If the stigma wasn't there things would be much different. I am not so sure it is women not trying to understand mens sexuality, I think a lot of it is denying their own. 
Damn Pilgrims!


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> And here is one to blow the bell curve.
> 
> I have a relationship with the ex-fiance. We have since talked about the events of 17 years ago.
> 
> You talk about women wanting that deep emotional connection?
> 
> She said to me, "Do you understand what happened? Why I freaked out?"
> 
> My answer was; "I got too close. It all became too intimate."
> To which she responded, "That was exactly it. I was terrified of being that open and feeling vulnerable."
> 
> So ... her resolution was to invest herself in a relationship with another man that was far less intimate, and where she was subsequently abused.
> 
> Ain't life funny?


I dumped a guy for the exact same reason and yeah hooked up with an abusive loser who didn't give a crap about me.


----------



## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> . I am not so sure it is women not trying to understand mens sexuality, I think a lot of it is denying their own.


I think many don`t try because they think they already get it.
I think the same is true for men too, they don`t try either because they think they already get it.

This forum is a virtual gold mine of men and women who are trying to understand because problems they`ve had made them realize on one level or another that they really don`t get it and they need to in order to maintain the relationships they want.

I do think you are on to something with a problem being that women deny their own sexuality.

I think this leads to a lot of bashing on mens sexuality.

Women deny their sexuality because of the "good girl" stigma and resent and are repulsed by the fact that men don`t have this stigma so they respond by thinking of mens sexuality as dirty or shallow or piggish.

That last thought just occurred to me after reading your reply so it may be off base a bit as I`ve not really given it much thought but it seems reasonable on the surface.


----------



## nice777guy

Arnold said:


> Really. I don't think I have seen guys ridiculing their wives' sexual pasts. Seriously?


Playing catch up - I guess my general thought was the classic idea that a girl with a past is a skank, while a man with a past is a hero. On this board, I'm not sure that I've seen anyone both complaining and ridiculing.


----------



## nice777guy

tacoma said:


> How many posts have you seen around here where a guy is feeling hesitant to fulfill his woman's rape or submission fantasy because he just can`t bring himself to treat her that way?
> 
> That`s because he loves her and has a hard time treating her like a sex object even when that`s what she wants.


Or...

Just a thought here...

He's also afraid that he'll get totally into the fantasy and suddenly his wife will be looking at him as if there's something wrong or he's gone too far. Then - not only is the fantasy - that they both likely shared - dead - but he's left asking for pity sex for the rest of his life because of "the incident..."

No - not speaking from experience - but speaking from what often held ME back from trying to kick things up a notch and be more aggressive. I mostly chose to error on the side of being more passive in the hopes of getting what I wanted - than being aggressive and being shut out.

Fantasies - a lot of trust involved there - especially with aggressive sex or rapture scenarios. Hence - the need for a really strong emotional connection - for both man and woman.


----------



## nice777guy

Deejo said:


> And here is one to blow the bell curve.
> 
> I have a relationship with the ex-fiance. We have since talked about the events of 17 years ago.
> 
> You talk about women wanting that deep emotional connection?
> 
> She said to me, "Do you understand what happened? Why I freaked out?"
> 
> My answer was; "I got too close. It all became too intimate."
> To which she responded, "That was exactly it. I was terrified of being that open and feeling vulnerable."
> 
> So ... her resolution was to invest herself in a relationship with another man that was far less intimate, and where she was subsequently abused.
> 
> Ain't life funny?


Funny isn't the word...

Deep stuff. Thanks for sharing that Deejo.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

tacoma said:


> .
> 
> I do think you are on to something with a problem being that women deny their own sexuality.
> 
> I think this leads to a lot of bashing on mens sexuality.
> 
> Women deny their sexuality because of the "good girl" stigma and resent and are repulsed by the fact that men don`t have this stigma so they respond by thinking of mens sexuality as dirty or shallow or piggish.


Bashing on male sexuality? I don't see that. If anything (here) I see the opposite and support and advice given such as man up, do this and that. Not sure what you mean by bashing men's sexuality. 
Not sure about the good girl vs. the pig. Interesting point though.


----------



## nice777guy

tacoma said:


> Women deny their sexuality because of the "good girl" stigma and resent and are repulsed by the fact that men don`t have this stigma so they respond by thinking of mens sexuality as dirty or shallow or piggish.


To that, I simply say "Oink." Loud and proud.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

tacoma said:


> That`s just a bunch of new age self help bull**** as far as I`m concerned.
> 
> Men and women are already on the same page biologically.
> 
> If my wife became physically incapable of sex tomorrow would I loose my love for her?
> I don`t think so.
> 
> Was my wife in love with me before we had sex?
> Most definitely not.
> 
> We were just ****ing around and fell in love.
> I don`t think the sex really had anything to do with it beyond compelling us back for more which enabled us the time and intimacy to form that emotional connection.
> 
> Here`s the kicker, I don`t think women need an emotional connection before having sex any more than a man needs sex before an emotional connection.
> 
> If that were true no woman would ever have casual sex and no man would ever have an emotional connection to a woman.
> 
> It`s a brand new "stigma" society is throwing at us.
> 
> Sex can and does indeed strengthen the bond between two people who have an emotional connection and over time can chemically cause an emotional connection but one isn`t required before the other.
> 
> If you think about it it would be a sick cosmic joke if it were true. No relationship could even begin let alone last if this situation was a requirement.


I disagree that all women don't need an emotional connection to want to have sex especially in long term relationships.

In my case.. those EXACT words were used when my wife had the ILYNILWY night two years ago.

She said "I need an emotional connection" she went on to state "I turned off my emotions to you"

This phrase was unknown to me...now I know what she meant.
Guess what... the sex life crashed after that night.

A while later I asked her "Do you even like sex?" here reply was "I like sex!"
Guess she does but only if certain criteria is met.

I don't even know if she knew at the time what she was saying... but it's remarkable those exact words "emotional connection "came out of her mouth. She doesn't read the womens mags, or read forums like this. So where did she get that term from? All during this period her reason for lack of sex was "feelings" or in other words "emotional connection"

In essence she was telling me something was missing.... and that had a direct relationship to how many times we had sex and her enthusiasm.

So for her at least "emotional connection" sees to be a requirement for regular good sex.

I think we've re-built whatever emotional connection is finally just based on her current attitude... so regular sex should follow.

I would venture to surmise....

Initially when seeking a mate women don't require the "emotional connection" hence casual dating sex. My wife and I slept together on our very first date. I was surprised. We met just a week before. We moved in together within a month or so of our very first sex.

BUT in order to get married and stay happily married the presence of "emotional connection" is key to long term relationships and ongoing sexual activity for wives. Otherwise resentment always builds. That replaces the sheer thrill of a new male sexual partner.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> My example was probably a bad one. What I getting at is that the double standard IS alive and well and if we are being honest, women are not as free to express themselves sexually as men. Maintaining the "good girl" status is essential. Men suffer from this as well as they are the ones unhappy with their sex life.
> Am I making any sense?



I don't know that this is quite as cut and dried as you make it out to be. While in college, I remember very clearly over hearing a conversation in a bar between a group of four girls that were seniors (I knew one of them slightly). They were discussing a new boyfriend of one and how he was different. The phrase they used was "marrying type" and contrasted him with the others that she had previously dated. Those previous boyfriends were players that got around. The girls were pretty blunt abou the fact that while those guys were fun to date and party with, they weren't good long term marriage material.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Bashing on male sexuality? I don't see that. If anything (here) I see the opposite and support and advice given such as man up, do this and that. Not sure what you mean by bashing men's sexuality.
> Not sure about the good girl vs. the pig. Interesting point though.


While not bashed here, it certainly is in many aspects of modern culture. Men are described as pigs for only wanting sex and girls are warned that that is all men want. Let's face it, if having sex is bad to a good girl, and men want sex, then men want something that is bad.


----------



## tacoma

Trying2figureitout said:


> I would venture to surmise....
> 
> Initially when seeking a mate women don't require the "emotional connection" hence casual dating sex. My wife and I slept together on our very first date. I was surprised. We met just a week before. We moved in together within a month or so of our very first sex.
> 
> BUT in order to get married and stay happily married the presence of "emotional connection" is key to long term relationships and ongoing sexual activity for wives. Otherwise resentment always builds. That replaces the sheer thrill of a new male sexual partner.


Yes I agree.

When I first read your disagreement with my statement my first thought was to ask you if the two of you had an emotional connection before you had sex.

I see you didn`t, like many (most?) couples don`t at first sexual encounter.

I do agree however that once an emotional connection is established losing it is a serious libido killer.

The sex isn`t the same, it isn`t as good it isn`t as meaningful.

I believe this is the same for men as well if they ever really valued the connection with their wives in the first place.

I said sex was entirely possible without an emotional connection.
I didn`t say it was as good without it as it is with it.


----------



## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Bashing on male sexuality? I don't see that. If anything (here) I see the opposite and support and advice given such as man up, do this and that. Not sure what you mean by bashing men's sexuality.
> Not sure about the good girl vs. the pig. Interesting point though.


You can`t tell me you`ve never heard the expression "All men are pigs" "The pervert wants to have me anally!"or "My deviant husband won`t stop with the porn!" possibly a nearly endless litany of bashing on concepts/acts that to men are commonplace and overt.

The reason these things are commonplace and overt for men and not for women is because of the repression we`ve been talking about.

If women speak of these things (historically) in a positive way they are often labelled as ****s but if men do it they are labelled as studs.

This is obviously unfair and inequitable and I believe it causes (understandable) resentment for male sexuality among women in general.

Like I said it`s just a thought I had, I may alter my belief if given reason to or I think about a bit more and decide it`s off for some reason.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Tall Average Guy said:


> I don't know that this is quite as cut and dried as you make it out to be. While in college, I remember very clearly over hearing a conversation in a bar between a group of four girls that were seniors (I knew one of them slightly). They were discussing a new boyfriend of one and how he was different. The phrase they used was "marrying type" and contrasted him with the others that she had previously dated. Those previous boyfriends were players that got around. The girls were pretty blunt abou the fact that while those guys were fun to date and party with, they weren't good long term marriage material.





Again this is my life.... my wife dated before me mostly guys in rock bands with long hair! She was into punk, duran duran etc even had the skunk hair at one point. I'm the exact opposite... clean cut no musical talent whatsoever.

I asked my wife a long time ago what attracted her to me.... she said you were nice, had a new car and brought me beautiful flowers on our first date. Almost as if that NEVER happened to her before.

Her parents later on... Wow you are nothing like her other boyfriends. They fell in love with me instantly.

So I do believe most girls have guys they are willing to sleep around with and then marrying guys.

I think that also is part of my current issue... my wife probably misses some of the "rocker" guy traits. Our sex life has never been gang busters by most standards in terms of frequency.... don't get me wrong my wife is a good lay (when she wants to be) but not nearly as much frequency as I'd like... hopefully that's changing now that we went through this two year correction period.

That might be the "issue" in many marriages... especially when husbands are so different from those they slept around with before. In fact "nice" guy seems to be the major issue in these very forums based on all the man up and 180 advice.

Nice guy=marriage type. That is the problem!
I think wives look for a good provider/father rather than a hot guy they are truly sexually driven towards.


I also think that is why many wives have affairs... to get back to the thrill of their earlier dating life with not so nice guys.

This is why at years 15-17 MLC's occur in many women and men. People miss their youth and wonder where did my life go.

So in essence Nice Guys NEED to change at some point after marriage into a not-so nice guy for the marriage to thrive... a tall order.

That's what I've been morphing into over the past two years. Not as nice... more of a man. More of an extrovert. She seems much happier now.

We are going to a club (she asked me) to watch a rock band tonite... hmmm maybe that's the ticket to sex with her... music. Oh and darn...I just got a buzz tday...Doh!


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Tall Average Guy said:


> While not bashed here, it certainly is in many aspects of modern culture. Men are described as pigs for only wanting sex and girls are warned that that is all men want. Let's face it, if having sex is bad to a good girl, and men want sex, then men want something that is bad.


Who's doing this though? What I often find are fathers telling their daughters "he's only after one thing" and mothers telling their daughters "don't be THAT girl". I mean how many times to you hear a father say once his daughter starts dating he's buying a gun. Granted he is joking (mostly) but the undercurrent in that is men are after one thing only and the father must protect his daughters virtue. The mother tells the daughter when she starts dating to be a "good girl". Haven't you heard this before? I sure have. What does this teach us?


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

tacoma said:


> You can`t tell me you`ve never heard the expression "All men are pigs" "The pervert wants to have me anally!"or "My deviant husband won`t stop with the porn!" possibly a nearly endless litany of bashing on concepts/acts that to men are commonplace and overt.
> 
> The reason these things are commonplace and overt for men and not for women is because of the repression we`ve been talking about.
> 
> If women speak of these things (historically) in a positive way they are often labelled as ****s but if men do it they are labelled as studs.
> 
> This is obviously unfair and inequitable and I believe it causes (understandable) resentment for male sexuality among women in general.
> 
> Like I said it`s just a thought I had, I may alter my belief if given reason to or I think about a bit more and decide it`s off for some reason.


The only time I have heard "all men are pigs" are from disgruntled women who make poor choices when picking a partner. I certainly don't think ALL men are pigs. Some are, most are not. I am not sure that the comment is male bashing so much as it is the frame of mind of a select few.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Trying2figureitout said:


> Again this is my life.... my wife dated before me mostly guys in rock bands with long hair! She was into punk, duran duran etc even had the skunk hair at one point. I'm the exact opposite... clean cut no musical talent whatsoever.
> 
> I asked my wife a long time ago what attracted her to me.... she said you were nice, had a new car and brought me beautiful flowers on our first date.
> 
> Her parents later on... Wow you are nothing like her other boyfriends. They fell in love with me instantly.
> 
> So I do believe most girls have guys they are willing to sleep around with and then marrying guys.
> 
> I think that also is part of my current issue... my wife probably misses some of the "rocker" guy traits. Our sex life has never been gang busters by most standards in terms of frequency.... don't get me wrong my wife is a good lay (when she wants to be) but not nearly as much frequency as I'd like... hopefully that's changing now that we went through this two year correction period.
> 
> That might be the "issue" in many marriages... especially when husbands are so different from those they slept around with before. In fact "nice" guy seems to be the major issue in these very forums based on all the man up and 180 advice.
> 
> Nice guy=marriage type. That is the problem!
> I think wives look for a good provider/father rather than a hot guy they are truly sexually driven towards.
> 
> 
> I also think that is why many wives have affairs... to get back to the thrill of their earlier dating life with not so nice guys.
> 
> This is why at years 15-17 MLC's occur in many women and men. People miss their youth and wonder where did my life go.
> 
> So in essence Nice Guys NEED to change at some point after marriage into a not-so nice guy for the marriage to thrive... a tall order.


"Nice guys" aren't the marrying type. They are passive aggressive pretenders and no woman wants that. "Stable guys" are the marrying type. There's a big different there. By stable I mean you aren't going to worry that he won't come home one night, beat you, gamble away the 401k or be a terrible father.
Bad boys aren't attractive to most women after a certain age. Eventually most women grow up and realize that the loyal and kind man is far better than a future "star" on an episode of Cops.


----------



## Halien

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Who's doing this though? What I often find are fathers telling their daughters "he's only after one thing" and mothers telling their daughters "don't be THAT girl". I mean how many times to you hear a father say once his daughter starts dating he's buying a gun. Granted he is joking (mostly) but the undercurrent in that is men are after one thing only and the father must protect his daughters virtue. The mother tells the daughter when she starts dating to be a "good girl". Haven't you heard this before? I sure have. What does this teach us?


I agree with you, and I try to be pretty balanced with my daughter and son. When I take the one they are dating to see the backyard mock gravestones of the ones who hurt my son or daugher before, I only have last names on the gravestones - Smith, Jones, etc. That way it works for both sexes.

Okay, I don't actually have real gravestones out there, 'cause we never make it out the door, but what's the use of being built like a linebacker if you can't use it once and a while? Seriously, my son's girlfriend apparently became almost suicidal before she came over to meet us. I don't know why so many parents dread their kid's dating years. I've never had more fun!!


----------



## Nikki1023

I dont think most women understand the male sex drive.

Just like I believe most men don't understand the female sex drive.


----------



## Arnold

Therealbrighteyes said:


> At what point did I say whole world against women? I didn't. What I said was that a woman who is promiscuious and has a higher number is viewed as less than and certainly less than her male counterpart.
> Care to weigh in on the male sex drive? So far only Tacoma has said anything.


I do not agree. Promiscuous males and females are viewed the same, as far a I can tell.


----------



## Arnold

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Might I ask this: Men here and men I know in my real life say they need sex to feel an emotional connection but that is opposite of what I just read in this post. I think if men TRULY need the emotional connection first before sex, women and men would be on the same page.


Most of the guys I hang with need the emotional connection. Most of us were pretty good athletes, (jocks) too.
I really think , brighteyes, you have some selective blinders on. Many of the guys on this sirte say the same thing. Yet, you discount them as atypical. Why?


----------



## Arnold

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Might I ask this: Men here and men I know in my real life say they need sex to feel an emotional connection but that is opposite of what I just read in this post. I think if men TRULY need the emotional connection first before sex, women and men would be on the same page.


Myaybe part of the probelm is that you are not a good looking guy, brighteyes. Just take the pro athlete deal, Think the woemn that pursue them are after an emotional connection?
Even as a moderately good college athlete, I got propositoned a lot.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Arnold said:


> Myaybe part of the probelm is that you are not a good looking guy, brighteyes. Just take the pro athlete deal, Think the woemn that pursue them are after an emotional connection?
> Even as a moderately good college athlete, I got propositoned a lot.


You are correct. I am not a good looking guy.


----------



## Trenton

Arnold said:


> Myaybe part of the probelm is that you are not a good looking guy, brighteyes. Just take the pro athlete deal, Think the woemn that pursue them are after an emotional connection?
> Even as a moderately good college athlete, I got propositoned a lot.


I don't think she would make a good looking guy, no offense brighteyes...teehehehe


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Trenton said:


> I don't think she would make a good looking guy, no offense brighteyes...teehehehe


Well after I carve out my Adam's apple, all is well as my penis is firmly tucks in to my vagina. If he was actually suggesting that as a woman I do not understand good looking men with success and options well then he hasn't read any of my posts. Tom Brady and I have been married for 18 years and yeah, I doubt Tom keeps me around because I don't "get him".


----------



## Arnold

What I meant was you were , probably not propositioned by girls wanting sex with no connection, as many of my acquaintences and I were. This is why I do not believe women need an emotional connection to have sex.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Arnold said:


> What I meant was you were , probably not propositioned by girls wanting sex with no connection, as many of my acquaintences and I were. This is why I do not believe women need an emotional connection to have sex.


You are correct. I have never been propositioned by a woman. I know nothing about the female drive or their emotional connections.


----------



## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You are correct. I know nothing about the female drive or their emotional connections.


:rofl:

Wait a minute...just what are you, anyway?!?!

:lol:


----------



## FirstYearDown

The men that I rode before I was married were rarely husband material. Some were flings and others were relationships that went on for too long.

Because of the double standards, I held off on having sex immediately when I felt like it, so that the guy in question wouldn't think less of me. That is what I did with my husband and any other man that I wanted to know beyond his package.

I daresay that men's sexuality is easy to understand. Most men like sex often and varied, with a woman that loves being in bed with them.


----------



## Arnold

That sounds about right. Same with women , I expect.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Therealbrighteyes said:


> "Nice guys" aren't the marrying type. They are passive aggressive pretenders and no woman wants that.


So untrue! At least in my case. My husband is a true nice guy. I couldn't be more in love with him. He has always put my needs before his. I appreciate all the effort and hard work he puts into our marriage and raising our children. He has never been passive aggressive. 

We have a very strong and satisfying marriage. I fully respect and fulfill all his needs/desires. We have been married 12 wonderful years. Not only is he my husband, he is my best friend. I couldn't imagine life without him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RandomDude

SockPuppet said:


> Do you think your Wife/SO truly understands the male sex drive?


No, in her opinion, we are like this:










In the end, it turned out I have just as many switches as her.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

> I also think a lot of girls are still raised with this unhealthy notion of sex. Read around her enough and you see a general theme. Women are the "gatekeepers". In a loving relationship there should be no gate and no keeper but I see it often mentioned here. What does that tell women? That their sexuality is a fortress to be guarded. No wonder they aren't allowed in their own mind to enjoy sex....they are too busy "protecting" it.


 That would be me, I am one of those women who feels this way, I have opened my thinking in many ways, but not on this - it will be what I teach my daughter - without the damaging religious hangups I carried. When I speak of this "gatekeeping", for me, this is purely about guarding her *HEART* and her very future. 

My views on the *male sex drive *is..... he is of the weaker sex - most especially when he is young - it is RAGING beyond belief & it NEEDS attended too in some form if you are in a relationship with him, he deserves your compassion & your enthusiastic touch, but he will not DIE without intercourse in the early stages of a romance...

And I ask, is not this ACT, the act of intercourse "*Sacred*" somehow.... after all it is the 1 thing we do not share with another after vows & we feel justified to leave if it is ... it has the AWESOME POWER to create NEW LIFE, nothing under the sun carries a greater responsibility. This was MY boundary - this was my giving ALL to another. This is what would have devestated ME -had it been tossed aside. 

There are other ways to physically satisfy each other, while slowly & carefully building that "deep connecting trust " to find security in the man -where his ACTIONS clearly speak louder than just his WORDS in how he feels about us. 

Sure us women want it too!! I remember those early lusting urges, after we 1st started touching each other, I remember thinking..."Oh my God, this feels soooo freaking good, I don't know how we are going to stop!!!" , I soaked my jeans for him, I was RAGING ... but we got through, both of us very physically satisfied- with the emotional connection ever growing. 

Some people can have casual sex, and be totally fine with it, don't misunderstand me....... I won't judge them. To each his own. But I am not one of them, if the guy left me after I gave that part of myself - it would destroy me, I KNOW ME, and I hold these things very very precious, I don't think that is religious thinking either, it is just being in tune with my emotional being and what I *need* from the man I receive into my life & put my trust into. 

I watched my Mother get "used" by men, she had some friends of her younger sister do a job on our little house after her divorce, she was very attracted to one of them, he played the GAME !! When they were finished with the job, he seized his opportunity, he didn't want her $$, he wanted something else , she gave in - like so many women do - in hopes for his love-- yeah the joke was on her, what she got in return was all of those guys coming around -cause she was "easy". She had a nervous breakdown shortly after that, I lost my mother. 

Her self esteem plummeted to zero. Amazingly, She doesn't blame those men, after all, she could have taken the higher road- she even knew what she was doing, but obviously, she was not prepared for the emotional devestation. Seeing what happened to her - plus too much Puritan teaching in the pews -didn't do this young horny girl any favors in life, all I knew is I was never going to let that happen to me. 

But to remain that "gatekeeper" -to avoid this type of pain, after all HORMONES & lust is blinding, what do they call it - "the FOG", even for women, we have to seek higher ground, BE the "stronger" sex to put on those brakes, do a little testing of that devotion for us.....We simply have NO guarentee the man will. 

Maybe some WANT to sleep with all the HOT JOCKs in high school, that is their choice- all for the pleasure & excitement , but sometimes pleasure only lasts a day. Just know that going in. If you know it won't BREAK you -you know you won't have any regrets when they move on to the next cheerleader - by all means, live it up! But it seems, many women are very angry at men because they have been SO hurt by such experiences. 

I just don't think trying to change men is the answer, they will follow ...by our leading, what "we allow"...IF they want us bad enough. That is our responsibilty as females. 




> A man who is a man [email protected] is a player. Not a derogatory term and lauded as being the "alpha" male. A woman on the other hand who acts the same way is a s!ut and sadly, it isn't just men saying that about her. Women say it time and time again


 I hate how the Alphas are praised -if it means endless female conquests. I don't give them a free pass in "Respect" at all. 




> So the ideal situation is still two virgins getting together and staying together, but many of us don't that choice. The drawback is that the partners are inexperienced and don't know how to please each other, and they both lose out.


 It is possible to not even know what you are missing -when you are missing it! I was totally satisfied, he was too -just wanted "more" of it. Sexual education & an openness to share before each other was our blunders. But I wouldn't trade it for -either of us having other partners. 

I personally feel the worldly views (Hollywoood, Media) are too loose on the one hand, it cheapens sex, and I feel the Puritan views are too stringently rediculous - even damaging to the psyche for some women , while their men suffer terribly ....... meeting somewhere in the middle surely gives us our healthiest chance for a "foundation" that has the potential to last a lifetime. 

If that is what one is seeking anyway.



> I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said :
> 
> So untrue! At least in my case. My husband is a true nice guy. I couldn't be more in love with him. He has always put my needs before his. I appreciate all the effort and hard work he puts into our marriage and raising our children. He has never been passive aggressive.
> 
> We have a very strong and satisfying marriage. I fully respect and fulfill all his needs/desires. We have been married 12 wonderful years. Not only is he my husband, he is my best friend. I couldn't imagine life without him


 I could have written this word for word.


----------



## Halien

FirstYearDown said:


> I daresay that men's sexuality is easy to understand. Most men like sex often and varied, with a woman that loves being in bed with them.


I think you've possibly identified a point that can distinguish men into a couple of types, possibly, but not sure.

I would disagree with this statement because it isn't complete. Maybe some men would agree.

Sure, when single, I wanted to have sex with women who loved being in bed with me, but to be honest, there had to be something there before I took that step to get to know her. Not an emotional connection, really, as long as she wasn't competely wrong for me, but to be honest, she had to fit within the criteria, emotionally and physically, that I craved. Just being honest. The comment above makes it sounds a little like we'll take anything.

I'm speaking of this in the context of the women I met at clubs or events, mostly in college. Most relationships would last just a few weeks, because neither of us were looking for a longer relationship, unless it was obvious that it was just a one night stand.

There seemed to be a difference in what the women were looking for. It was pretty subtle. Keep in mind that this was late eighties, so I'm dating myself. Nowadays, the girls at my son's school keep up some sort of pressure to see how many can give blowjobs to my son the first year he went to a new school. He was naive, and it took a while to get his bearings straight with that. But for my time, the women seemed to crave an element of being pursued by someone who met their standards, even if both of us knew it was just a one night stand. Some gave me the underlying impression that they were even participating in the whole college environment of hookups because it was expected, and maybe didn't get as much enjoyment out of the process. When I sensed this, usually I'd just focus on having a good time other ways.

Just trying to stumble my way into saying that the sex drive can't be seperated from a desire to see a woman enjoy the time together just as much as me. If she didn't enjoy it, then it wasn't worth pursuing. But surrounding this whole discussion was the pursuit of someone who fit some internal filters. Maybe some men make a mistake by not factoring in compatablilty, even short term compatability. Other might just be gamers, and don't care.


----------



## LimboGirl

SockPuppet said:


> Reading the newer posts over last few days, and I have a question... well, a couple.
> 
> Do you think your Wife/SO truly understands the male sex drive?
> 
> If your a woman, do you understand the male sex drive?
> If you said yes to the above, please explain.
> 
> Do you think women in general want to understand, or think they truly understand male sexuality?


 I can't speak for other women. As for myself, NO. I don't. This is coming from a marriage in serious trouble though, so maybe that's why. I have been reading a lot of different threads on the subject and I have to say it has been very informative.

I have learned that not having sex in a marriage is extremely painful. This seems to apply to women, also.

I'm hoping you are going to explain this guys. I will continue to read the threads.


----------



## SockPuppet

Is it safe to say then that women, in general, do not understand male sexuality, not because its a complex beast, but because they have cultural programming that screws up views of their own sexuality?

The idea that a man can be a "player" holds positive conotation, but a woman is a "****" and thats wrong. The fact that women also call other women ****s, negatively, but very few are verbal against the positive asscosiation of words like Alpha male and Player in regards to these people who hold the same characteristics as a s1ut.


----------



## Enchantment

There's a big difference between understanding and applying that understanding/being committed.

I cannot totally understand what my H's drive feels like to him, no better than he can likewise understand mine. But we can both CARE enough to DO.

And, the real key is being willing to DO and DOING - being willing to commit and committing to them even in the absence of total understanding. If you can do that, then you can transcend all of the other 'static' - misunderstanding, cultural programming.

"_I have been impressed with the urgency of doing. Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Being willing is not enough; we must do.” ~ Leonardo da Vinci _


----------



## RandomDude

Men can be tamed quite simply. Just find out what type of woman strikes him deep and be that woman. And for the love of the sky don't ever, ever, give him the impression that he has all of you, especially for the "alpha" types.


----------



## LimboGirl

Would some of you guys explain the male sex drive as it pertains to you? Please don't compare the male to the female just explain the male sex drive. I would like to leave this thread enlightened, so please repeat.

Thank you.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RandomDude said:


> Men can be tamed quite simply. Just find out what type of woman strikes him deep and be that woman. And for the love of the sky don't ever, ever, give him the impression that he has all of you, especially for the "alpha" types.


Yeah but we are what we are. If we put on a show to be "a certain woman" for catching him, it will only re-surface after the marraige. I think what you say is very telling Randon Dude, probably very true even, the Alphas get bored very quickly, they are chasing new excitement over every horizon - in their youth anyway. But with the more Beta males, like my husband, I think a woman could GIVER HER WHOLE SELF to him early on and seriosuly never get burned, they are just more content somehow, it is about so much more than excitement- to them. 

Since this thread is about the Male Sex Drive, I want to say something about my husband here. When we met, he was attracted to me, yes, but he tells me (about 3 yrs ago when I was asking a zillion sex questions that I never asked during our entire marriage)...and he said it was NEVER about sex with him, he even said he didn't think of me like that while dating, and I was like ...WHAT?!! I said to him that was not normal. 

I kinda thought all guys are thinking "How do I get into her pants" or at the very least fantasizing about what that experiece would be like. And he still says, he didn't. I was a little disappointed even! And truly, he never did act that way. Even though he was masterbating up to 3 times a day while single, He didn't pressure me at all for sex, but of coarse we touched each other, so we kept ourselves happy enough. 

Even in his youth, he was driven more , not by his balls, but by his heart.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

With the exception of one guy here, not one man has explained the male drive, just said we women don't understand it. If you want us to understand then instead of making us mind readers, tell us. Anybody?


----------



## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> With the exception of one guy here, not one man has explained the male drive, just said we women don't understand it. If you want us to understand then instead of making us mind readers, tell us. Anybody?



I thought I did fairly well in Post #7

:smthumbup:


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

tacoma said:


> I thought I did fairly well in Post #7
> 
> :smthumbup:


I WAS referring to you and I appreciated your input. I think we would all be better served if instead of saying women don't understand more explain what it is all about.


----------



## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I WAS referring to you and I appreciated your input. I think we would all be better served if instead of saying women don't understand more explain what it is all about.



Oh sorry, I`m dense sometimes.

Thank you...


----------



## LimboGirl

tacoma said:


> We want our women to want us, desire us, pursue us just as they want all these things.
> 
> Once there is an emotional investment however we really need the validation of the one we`re invested in to feel loved.
> 
> Once we`ve opened up to another emotionally we need them to do the same to be happy sexually or otherwise.


Would this be your condensed list?

What about you other guys? Seriously, this is your time to teach. Don't get into women. Please just explain the MALE sex drive.


----------



## tacoma

Yep, that'll work for a short list.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Deejo

LimboGirl said:


> Would some of you guys explain the male sex drive as it pertains to you? Please don't compare the male to the female just explain the male sex drive. I would like to leave this thread enlightened, so please repeat.
> 
> Thank you.


The question is simply too obtuse.

What exactly about the male sex drive do you want to know? 

I need to feel a connection. Sexual timidity or disinterest on my partners part is an absolute drive-killer. 

If she is into it and enjoying herself, (again connected) I'm over the moon.

It isn't about just getting laid, for me. Not. Ever. It's a bond. It is the most physical, direct, and intimate means for me to be close to, and loving with, the woman that has my heart.

Most men will agree, there is virtually no better aphrodisiac to pump up your drive than a willing and enthusiastic, adventurous and upbeat partner.

Hope that helps.


----------



## LimboGirl

Deejo said:


> The question is simply too obtuse.
> 
> What exactly about the male sex drive do you want to know?
> 
> I need to feel a connection. Sexual timidity or disinterest on my partners part is an absolute drive-killer.
> 
> If she is into it and enjoying herself, (again connected) I'm over the moon.
> 
> It isn't about just getting laid, for me. Not. Ever. It's a bond. It is the most physical, direct, and intimate means for me to be close to, and loving with, the woman that has my has my heart.
> 
> Most men will agree, there is virtually no better aphrodisiac to pump up your drive than a willing and enthusiastic, adventurous and upbeat partner.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Thanks. I think you explained your point of view well. Is it different for any of you other guys?


----------



## SockPuppet

EDIT: I wrote this before reading Deejo's post. Im just providing my two cents in my own way. I feel that if you have a problem with what I wrote, its due to semantics, but feel free to question what I have to say.

Im still learning a lot about the emotional connections we create during our pursuit of sex, so there is only so much I can share, and what I do share is my personal take on it, which I feel is wholly valid, assuming you can get around the fact that I can be a pig from time to time.

Let me give a very poor example. Remember the time your Husband bought you flowers, planned a romantic night out, did something special that you hold as a cherished memory of his love for you.
I feel much the same when receiving oral sex from my wife. Sure, it looks hot, and it feels hotter, and in the moment, that’s probably all that’s going through my mind. But deeper inside, I feel that she is showing her love by performing this act. By enthusiastically giving me 100% of her attention, devoted to my sexual satisfaction. And its this thought that allows me to trancend from giving in to some primal urge, and truly bonding with wifey.

Reading over that paragraph, I feel that it doesn’t accurately get my point across, but you may be able to find meaning in my words. Maybe it would be easiest to sum it up as,. “I believe sexual acts to be the main love language of human males.”

When I ask my wife to dress up as an astronaught, or if I want to indroduce 3 other girls into our bed, its not because Im an astrophile, or that I want to have an FFFFM orgy, although that would be sweet, its because I want to open up new ways of connecting.

But that’s what my wife wont get, she takes one look at the astronaught suit and three other girls standing in the doorway and she assumes Im some cheating, perverted freak of nature. Maybe she will blame the porn or satan or think that all men are deviants. Sex is in our nature and we want to express it in many, many ways and not just for the pure reason of sex, although that’s kind of why. It’s a paradox, and one Im terribly poor at explaining.

If you need clarification, just ask…. God knows I do


----------



## that_girl

Well, if you want FFFFM, then you should marry someone who is into that as well. Connection, to me, between a husband a wife doesn't mean you bring more people into the mix. i could do that single and be just as fulfilled in that aspect. College was awesome that way.

I think people need to talk more BEFORE marriage about sex and boundaries. So many people shy away from that topic and then discover they should have talked about it more than they did.

But our sex drives (male and female) run together in harmony (ideal). The man is involved in the woman's emotional side and shows he cares, which in turn makes the woman want to please her husband sexually....which brings him closer to be more interested in her emotional well-being, which makes her want to please him even more. Ideally, of course....


----------



## Trying2figureitout

LimboGirl said:


> Would some of you guys explain the male sex drive as it pertains to you? Please don't compare the male to the female just explain the male sex drive. I would like to leave this thread enlightened, so please repeat.
> 
> Thank you.



Sure LimboGirl thaks for being enlightened to seek a answer... I think women need to know if they understood many marriages could thrive!

Here's the deal... I really like sex I would say its my favorite thing to do, It is a super powerful feeling and when I have it my day becomes instantly better. My mind is eased and able to be used for everything else. Porn and masturbation help when its missing but its not the same. Not even close! There is no emotional component, no warmth, no smell, no taste its artificial.

Sex when coupled with a wife you love is the best.... it makes me feel emotionally close and gives me a chance to explore my beautiful wife's body. I like the fact that she is willing to spend time with me intimately... i know how busy she is so this time is special.

The feeling of closeness lasts for up to 10 days then I need to bond again if she allows it. prefer more but sadly that has never happened in my marriage.

I feel like I satisfy her in the process so its and extension of feeling love... I always try to bring her to O before my O. I totally want her to be into it also. Pity sex is the worst! I''d rather have none if that's the case! Most all ejaculations need to be internal mostly V but sometimes O and A. It helps mentally to know my sperm is in my wife.

I would love everyday...Be ultra happy with twice a week... however I can accept every 2-3 weeks (because of work schedules and my own compromise). In between closeness helps a lot also. In all it makes me feel at ease and so much more connected to my wife.

I compare it to a pilots need to fly... I mean he can stay grounded but that day sucks.

Its not all about the "act" its about the intimate closeness and the security that you feel your wife loves you and is willing to give you time for you and you alone in a way she does with no one else.

Does that help?

I'm in a now two year old sexless marriage ;( it is on my mind 99.8% of my waking hours.

I don't think women have a corollary... I guess the best way to envision it is pick your favorite thing to do ever and ask yourself if you could how much would you do it? Then you might start to get close to what men feel. Its all very primal urges... its at our core.

BTW..Dr Oz said men need to ejaculate six times per week for health reasons (Prostate mainly) its all unique to males through evolution.


----------



## Runs like Dog

Doesn't matter what it is. It makes no sense to women. You may as well be speaking Mandarin.


----------



## that_girl

Runs like Dog said:


> Doesn't matter what it is. It makes no sense to women. You may as well be speaking Mandarin.


*SOME women. Not all women.

Or maybe just YOUR woman.


----------



## SockPuppet

that_girl said:


> Well, if you want FFFFM, then you should marry someone who is into that as well. QUOTE]
> 
> I assume that means my post rubs you the wrong way. Thats great, thats the point.
> 
> If you re-read Tacoma's post #7, and Deejo's post, and Tacoma's short list post, you'll see that we are all saying the same thing just in different ways. And maybe thats why so many women have trouble understanding male sexuality.
> 
> Others will say emotions, bonding, connection, love, etc. Thats spoken to women from the mouths of at least two men so far.
> Im saying blowjobs and orgies, but I have the same meaning behind my words. I think the problem is the particular words guys like me use to describe sex.
> 
> I know my writing style isnt as polished as others, and I come off as a pig at times, but thats all part of being a man. Balancing primal urges with the softer emotional side of sex.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> The question is simply too obtuse.
> 
> What exactly about the male sex drive do you want to know?
> 
> I need to feel a connection. Sexual timidity or disinterest on my partners part is an absolute drive-killer.
> 
> If she is into it and enjoying herself, (again connected) I'm over the moon.
> 
> It isn't about just getting laid, for me. Not. Ever. It's a bond. It is the most physical, direct, and intimate means for me to be close to, and loving with, the woman that has my heart.
> 
> Most men will agree, there is virtually no better aphrodisiac to pump up your drive than a willing and enthusiastic, adventurous and upbeat partner.
> 
> Hope that helps.


That's exactly what women want as well. I guess I don't understand then how women don't "get" men's sex drives when it is identical to their own.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I am not so sure these answers are so much about the height of the sex drive as they are about the Emotional component of the sex drive. 

SOME men can clearly separate SEX from MAKING LOVE, and by no means is his sex drive NOT working during those exhilerating encounters -even without the emotional connection. I Think the more hormonally driven you are, coupled with your beliefs about sex , how you were raised, the more likely you are to separate this fact. But maybe I am all wrong. 

I never thought like that my entire existence until I came into my very explosive Drive and accually thought to myself, Darn, I seriously could have sex without the connection if I was lonely enough , it was a scrary thought and not like me at all , I would have gotten into alot of trouble had I been single at the time. 

Even my husband at one point thought I LUSTED for him more than I loved him. Crazy crazy time. 

I know other men feel like this and are very capable . 

This is the Horn Dog lustful drive. More in youth?


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

SockPuppet said:


> EDIT: I wrote this before reading Deejo's post. Im just providing my two cents in my own way. I feel that if you have a problem with what I wrote, its due to semantics, but feel free to question what I have to say.
> 
> Im still learning a lot about the emotional connections we create during our pursuit of sex, so there is only so much I can share, and what I do share is my personal take on it, which I feel is wholly valid, assuming you can get around the fact that I can be a pig from time to time.
> 
> Let me give a very poor example. Remember the time your Husband bought you flowers, planned a romantic night out, did something special that you hold as a cherished memory of his love for you.
> I feel much the same when receiving oral sex from my wife. Sure, it looks hot, and it feels hotter, and in the moment, that’s probably all that’s going through my mind. But deeper inside, I feel that she is showing her love by performing this act. By enthusiastically giving me 100% of her attention, devoted to my sexual satisfaction. And its this thought that allows me to trancend from giving in to some primal urge, and truly bonding with wifey.
> 
> Reading over that paragraph, I feel that it doesn’t accurately get my point across, but you may be able to find meaning in my words. Maybe it would be easiest to sum it up as,. “I believe sexual acts to be the main love language of human males.”
> 
> When I ask my wife to dress up as an astronaught, or if I want to indroduce 3 other girls into our bed, its not because Im an astrophile, or that I want to have an FFFFM orgy, although that would be sweet, its because I want to open up new ways of connecting.
> 
> But that’s what my wife wont get, she takes one look at the astronaught suit and three other girls standing in the doorway and she assumes Im some cheating, perverted freak of nature. Maybe she will blame the porn or satan or think that all men are deviants. Sex is in our nature and we want to express it in many, many ways and not just for the pure reason of sex, although that’s kind of why. It’s a paradox, and one Im terribly poor at explaining.
> 
> If you need clarification, just ask…. God knows I do


Huh? So because she doesn't want 3 other women in bed she doesn't "get" you? Is this post even for real?


----------



## SockPuppet

Puberty, hormones raging. I dont think I once thought about love during that time. Purely a want to put it in something.

As I grow older the drive has remained as powerful as ever, but its fueled by more than just hormones.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

SockPuppet said:


> that_girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you want FFFFM, then you should marry someone who is into that as well. QUOTE]
> 
> I assume that means my post rubs you the wrong way. Thats great, thats the point.
> 
> If you re-read Tacoma's post #7, and Deejo's post, and Tacoma's short list post, you'll see that we are all saying the same thing just in different ways. And maybe thats why so many women have trouble understanding male sexuality.
> 
> Others will say emotions, bonding, connection, love, etc. Thats spoken to women from the mouths of at least two men so far.
> Im saying blowjobs and orgies, but I have the same meaning behind my words. I think the problem is the particular words guys like me use to describe sex.
> 
> I know my writing style isnt as polished as others, and I come off as a pig at times, but thats all part of being a man. Balancing primal urges with the softer emotional side of sex.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth did you get married? You want sex with other women and want your wife to be cool with it. I think you are the minority to say the very least in that most married men wouldn't foist this on their wife and then come on here and moan that "she doesn't get me" because she refuses to introduce other women in to her marriage. It's not that us women don't "get" men's sex drives it's that some of us aren't willing to do anything just because you want it. Same goes for asking a man to do anything just because we would want it. What if your wife said she wanted 3 other men....would you be okay with that and if you said no you would not be "getting her"? Ridiculous.
Click to expand...


----------



## SockPuppet

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Huh? So because she doesn't want 3 other women in bed she doesn't "get" you? Is this post even for real?


I suppose, based on the number of times I get called on this sort of thing, it is definately my writing style to blame.... Ill work on it in the future.

Your hung up on the fact I said three women, that_girl is hung up on the fact I said three women, and if I were to bring it up to my wife she would also be hung up on the fact that I said three women. When in reality it has nothing to do with three women.


----------



## Deejo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> That's exactly what women want as well. I guess I don't understand then how women don't "get" men's sex drives when it is identical to their own.


You're kidding yourself if you believe that.

It is a DRIVE. By virtue of the fact that many of the men have linked a strong emotional component to it, by no means is it something we can just switch off, once switched on.

We have talked about testosterone on any number of occasions. It's impact on the male sex drive cannot possibly be overstated.

They aren't the same. Not saying one is better or more valid than the other, but the physiology of what makes a dude uncontrollably horny is a different process in a woman.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

SockPuppet said:


> I suppose, based on the number of times I get called on this sort of thing, it is definately my writing style to blame.... Ill work on it in the future.
> 
> Your hung up on the fact I said three women, that_girl is hung up on the fact I said three women, and if I were to bring it up to my wife she would also be hung up on the fact that I said three women. When in reality it has nothing to do with three women.


I'm not hung up on 3 women, I am hung up on the fact that you want to bring ANYBODY in to your marriage and if she is unwilling to do so, she doesn't "get you". Again, would you be okay with your wife wanting the same thing?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

SockPuppet said:


> Puberty, hormones raging. I dont think I once thought about love during that time. Purely a want to put it in something.


 This is why I feel so strongly young girls need to "gatekeep". Would you also be honest enough to admit, you would say near anything to get them in bed ? 

Please know, I am not judging you....I can handle this honesty, I felt very similar for a time period, I felt THIS raging but I still wanted that emotional in addition but if it wasn't there, I almost know without a doubt, I would have taken anything. Ha ha I remember thinking if this is what it feels like to be a TEEN male, I couldn't imagine how they even got their mind off of sex enough to get thier homework done, it was terribly terribly distracting.


----------



## SockPuppet

I dont want to bring anyone else into the bedroom, that was just a random scenario off the top of my head. Cant help but notice how you dont hold issue with my astrophile scenario.

My relationship with my wife isnt in a place where it would benefit from having anybody else in our bed, and therefore I have no interest in bringing anyone else in our bed. Maybe one day it will be, but not now, and that is fine with me. Being involved in an all girl orgy is a fantasy, and something I am contempt to keep as a fantasy.

I feel your still hung up on the fact I said three women. My post has nothing to do with three women. I was using it as an example to illustrate that if I wanted to bring three women into my marital bed with my wife, it would be because I feel that we could benefit and grow sexually and together from the experience...

What if I said I wanted to bring a dildo into bed, that she could use on me, or if I wanted her to dress up like Donkey Kong, or I thought it would be fun if we video taped it, or did it on the balcony one night. 

Its not the actual act/ fantasy that is important, but the meaning behind it. Im a very sexual guy and one way I would communicate my love for my wife is by experiencing new things sexually with my wife. And having her take an active interest in growing sexually.

The three girl scenario wasnt meant to be taken seriously...


----------



## SockPuppet

SimplyAmorous said:


> This is why I feel so strongly young girls need to "gatekeep". Would you also be honest enough to admit, you would say near anything to get them in bed ?
> 
> Please know, I am not judging you....I can handle this honesty, I felt very similar for a time period, I felt THIS raging but I still wanted that emotional in addition but if it wasn't there, I almost know without a doubt, I would have taken anything. Ha ha I remember thinking if this is what it feels like to be a TEEN male, I couldn't imagine how they even got their mind off of sex enough to get thier homework done, it was terribly terribly distracting.


Im very honest. Just know Im not a good writer

I would have done/said anything that would get me intyo bed with them, getting them to flash me, etc etc.


----------



## Deejo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I'm not hung up on 3 women, I am hung up on the fact that you want to bring ANYBODY in to your marriage and if she is unwilling to do so, she doesn't "get you". Again, would you be okay with your wife wanting the same thing?


The dude just explained the DRIVE portion of sex drive and you're bashing him for it.

Are you interested in explanations or arguing?

Take reason, pair bonding, and commitment out of the equation, and yeah ... most guys are going to think about blow-jobs, orgies, multiple partners, porn. What turns a man on drives any number of industries, both legitimate and illegitimate.

Unchecked, it ain't pretty. And as SP was explaining, the older we get, the more of a 'check valve' we are able to put on it.

It is powerful. It is why we just crossed the 7 billion mark in world population. Men are compelled to do things for sex. In it's most positive form that means we create families or long term relationships.

But on the flipside ...

It doesn't always care if a woman is willing, in the mood, or in love. Sometimes it's downright scary and ugly. I don't think a woman's sex drive is ever going to fall into that category.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> You're kidding yourself if you believe that.
> 
> It is a DRIVE. By virtue of the fact that many of the men have linked a strong emotional component to it, by no means is it something we can just switch off, once switched on.
> 
> We have talked about testosterone on any number of occasions. It's impact on the male sex drive cannot possibly be overstated.
> 
> They aren't the same. Not saying one is better or more valid than the other, but the physiology of what makes a dude uncontrollably horny is a different process in a woman.


If you think women aren't as horny as men, you are kidding yourself. The difference is it is acceptable for a man to say he is and women need to surpress theirs to be viewed as "good girls". That doesn't mean they don't want it as much they just have been taught not to express that.
I subscribe to the Mae West way of thinking: When I'm good I'm good, when I'm bad I'm better. I make no apologies for liking sex and most women I have met feel the same way, albeit they may not say that openly.


----------



## Deejo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> When I'm good I'm good, when I'm bad I'm better. I make no apologies for liking sex and most women I have met feel the same way, albeit they may not say that openly.


Well then, there's your mission. Start getting them to say it more openly. If it means they are opening their legs, then everyone will be happy. 

You will be celebrated and admired. Just stop going after guys when they actually tell their own personal truth, regardless of what it is.

Besides we don't care about your drive, neither does Limbo Girl. This is about us. Quit stealing the spotlight.

But if you really are as horny as a guy, I highly encourage you start your own thread. It'll be huge ...


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> The dude just explained the DRIVE portion of sex drive and you're bashing him for it.
> 
> Are you interested in explanations or arguing?
> 
> Take reason, pair bonding, and commitment out of the equation, and yeah ... most guys are going to think about blow-jobs, orgies, multiple partners, porn. What turns a man on drives any number of industries, both legitimate and illegitimate.
> 
> Unchecked, it ain't pretty. And as SP was explaining, the older we get, the more of a 'check valve' we are able to put on it.
> 
> It is powerful. It is why we just crossed the 7 billion mark in world population. Men are compelled to do things for sex. In it's most positive form that means we create families or long term relationships.
> 
> But on the flipside ...
> 
> It doesn't always care if a woman is willing, in the mood, or in love. Sometimes it's downright scary and ugly. I don't think a woman's sex drive is ever going to fall into that category.


I misunderstood him then. I didn't realize he was talking fantasy, I thought he was literally saying he wanted 3 women and **sigh** she doesn't get that. His writing style is off and 2 women here thought the same. I am not being argumentative at all, I read what he literally wrote. 
OP, I think women get men just fine. Hell, we have the same fantasies.


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> The dude just explained the DRIVE portion of sex drive and you're bashing him for it.
> 
> Are you interested in explanations or arguing?
> 
> Take reason, pair bonding, and commitment out of the equation, and yeah ... most guys are going to think about blow-jobs, orgies, multiple partners, porn. What turns a man on drives any number of industries, both legitimate and illegitimate.
> 
> Unchecked, it ain't pretty. And as SP was explaining, the older we get, the more of a 'check valve' we are able to put on it.
> 
> It is powerful. It is why we just crossed the 7 billion mark in world population. Men are compelled to do things for sex. In it's most positive form that means we create families or long term relationships.
> 
> But on the flipside ...
> 
> It doesn't always care if a woman is willing, in the mood, or in love. Sometimes it's downright scary and ugly. I don't think a woman's sex drive is ever going to fall into that category.


It's a fine line between recognizing it's how men feel and allowing men to use it as an excuse for their behavior and choices.

You know what I'm saying.

I agree, SA. I think we have to teach our girls to gatekeep and I do the same thing. My daughter if fifteen. I've reiterated over and over that I understand her desire to be loved but I've followed it up by letting her know that having sex with a boy will not mean he loves you or even likes you more. If you want love and sex and something truly meaningful, you need to wait and not think that you have to sex for a boy to love you. I say this over and over again just I like I tell her to brush her teeth. I hope it sinks in.


----------



## Deejo

All I want to convey is that the male sex drive is extraordinarily powerful. It can bring out their best in terms of tenderness, honor and nobility, or their absolute worst in terms of selfishness, power and aggression.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Trenton said:


> It's a fine line between recognizing it's how men feel and allowing men to use it as an excuse for their behavior and choices.
> 
> You know what I'm saying.
> 
> I agree, SA. I think we have to teach our girls to gatekeep and I do the same thing. My daughter if fifteen. I've reiterated over and over that I understand her desire to be loved but I've followed it up by letting her know that having sex with a boy will not mean he loves you or even likes you more. If you want love and sex and something truly meaningful, you need to wait and not think that you have to sex for a boy to love you. I say this over and over again just I like I tell her to brush her teeth. I hope it sinks in.



Problem is you need to explain when they marry the gate should be blown up! And an expressway put in. So frustrating.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Well I now know less about a man's sex drive than before I read here. I was all on board with Tacoma's but reading further it gets muddied. I guess the only thing that matters is understanding your partner's drive .


----------



## misterthhat

Therealbrighteyes said:


> If you think women aren't as horny as men, you are kidding yourself. The difference is it is acceptable for a man to say he is and women need to surpress theirs to be viewed as "good girls". That doesn't mean they don't want it as much they just have been taught not to express that.
> I subscribe to the Mae West way of thinking: When I'm good I'm good, when I'm bad I'm better. I make no apologies for liking sex and most women I have met feel the same way, albeit they may not say that openly.


Men have *10 times* as much testosterone as women. It's physically impossible for a woman to like sex as much as a man.

Whatever sex drive you *think* you have. Imagine it 10 times stronger and then you'll have an idea of the sex drive your spouse has.


----------



## SockPuppet

misterthhat said:


> Men have *10 times* as much testosterone as women. It's physically impossible for a woman to like sex as much as a man.
> 
> Whatever sex drive you *think* you have. Imagine it 10 times stronger and then you'll have an idea of the sex drive your spouse has.


10-20 times with 16 being average. Same reason women can-- AND SHOULD-- workout the same way as men, without worrying about looking like a bodybuilder. Pink dumbbells are a joke, but I digress.


I still believe I said the exact same thing as Tacoma. While his post is more polished, and mine looks like sailor garbage, your getting a view from two different ends of the same spectrum.

The underlying core of our writings are the same, but if you can see past my particular language, and see it as the same you will get a much better understanding of male sex drive.

Sometimes sex is a way for a couple to bond, really connect and get closer.

Sometimes its dirty f***ing.... that lets you bond and really connect.

Im just a dirty guy.

And there is a difference between my mentality on the subject, and some douche who enjoys going to the bar to pick up drunk girls. We may talk the same, but my words hold deep meaning.

Now that there are 4 women on this board, who have voiced there opinion on my writing, I will reflect and see if I can assimilate something more female friendly, while maintaining my caveman status.

Cheers.


----------



## Trenton

misterthhat said:


> Men have *10 times* as much testosterone as women. It's physically impossible for a woman to like sex as much as a man.
> 
> Whatever sex drive you *think* you have. Imagine it 10 times stronger and then you'll have an idea of the sex drive your spouse has.


Right. So we can't really imagine what it would be like. When I do for a moment, I imagine myself humping every inanimate object there is. I can't imagine being able to maintain any relationship, never-mind a monogamous one for the rest of my life or even concentrating enough to get anything done. 

If men are laid regularly are they less aggressive? Just curious.

Now imagine being a woman. We have that estrogen & progesterone coupled with a nice dose of oxytocin when having children. Can you imagine what that must be like? To want so much to emotionally connect to the one you adore? To never know how you're going to feel or to feel something so intensely it hurts? No kidding, I know the day before I'm going to get my monthly because I will cry at almost anything...even seeing someone looking sad might be enough to set me off (who even knows if they're actually sad).


----------



## Trenton

SockPuppet said:


> 10-20 times with 16 being average. Same reason women can-- AND SHOULD-- workout the same way as men, without worrying about looking like a bodybuilder. Pink dumbbells are a joke, but I digress.
> 
> 
> I still believe I said the exact same thing as Tacoma. While his post is more polished, and mine looks like sailor garbage, your getting a view from two different ends of the same spectrum.
> 
> The underlying core of our writings are the same, but if you can see past my particular language, and see it as the same you will get a much better understanding of male sex drive.
> 
> Sometimes sex is a way for a couple to bond, really connect and get closer.
> 
> Sometimes its dirty f***ing.... that lets you bond and really connect.
> 
> Im just a dirty guy.
> 
> And there is a difference between my mentality on the subject, and some douche who enjoys going to the bar to pick up drunk girls. We may talk the same, but my words hold deep meaning.
> 
> Now that there are 4 women on this board, who have voiced there opinion on my writing, I will reflect and see if I can assimilate something more female friendly, while maintaining my caveman status.
> 
> Cheers.


Hmmmm yes. Well, your mistake was typing that your wife can't understand your desire to have a threesome. It's offensive. If you made it clear you were fantasizing or whatnot that would've been different. It's not necessarily the style you write in but the context of your words so you're either not saying what you intend to or are a sick sock puppet.


----------



## misterthhat

Trenton said:


> To want so much to emotionally connect to the one you adore? To never know how you're going to feel or to feel something so intensely it hurts?


I'm sure women are capable of having those feelings to their children or family... Not to their husbands.


----------



## Nikki1023

Trenton makes a great point. Having your hormone levels change weekly, and throughout your life can def make you feel emotionally unstable at times. 

SO you guys have more testosterone than us..you directly link that to meaning ...having a higher sex drive? Id link that to being more aggressive more than anything. I think men are more open to talk about sex than women are. I think you guys start whacking off and learn how to get off earlier than we do. But to say you think about, or view sex differently than us..is just a little weird to me. 

Ill break it down Barney style..feel free to correct me if Im wrong. You guys have a penis. Some guys like stimulation and are open to experiment with other parts of their body..some arent. What makes you cum? The stroking motion..whether its by Hand, Mouth..Vagina, you get the idea. Thats the way you get off. 

Women not only have a Vagina. We have a clit..and a Gspot. You can have sex without hitting the Gspot, and a woman can still orgasm that way. You can stimulate the clit without having sex..and we can orgasm that way. Or you can stimulate the Gspot and we can orgasm that way.

SOOOO, in my opinion your penis and testosterone..has NOTHING on our female parts. 

Maybe you guys think you think about sex more than us..but if its done right..a woman will be thinking about sex way more than you. I think our bodies are just made that way, and its ashame most people think otherwise.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

misterthhat said:


> Men have *10 times* as much testosterone as women. It's physically impossible for a woman to like sex as much as a man.
> 
> Whatever sex drive you *think* you have. Imagine it 10 times stronger and then you'll have an idea of the sex drive your spouse has.


Then explain a woman past 35. You argument is totally flawed. My spouse? Try 10 times less than me and it always has been.


----------



## Trenton

misterthhat said:


> I'm sure women are capable of having those feelings to their children or family... Not to their husbands.


Wha?!?!

That's batass crazy. My poor husband at times has me following him around completely enraptured by my emotional attachment and attraction to him.


----------



## Trenton

Nikki1023 said:


> Trenton makes a great point. Having your hormone levels change weekly, and throughout your life can def make you feel emotionally unstable at times.
> 
> SO you guys have more testosterone than us..you directly link that to meaning ...having a higher sex drive? Id link that to being more aggressive more than anything. I think men are more open to talk about sex than women are. I think you guys start whacking off and learn how to get off earlier than we do. But to say you think about, or view sex differently than us..is just a little weird to me.
> 
> Ill break it down Barney style..feel free to correct me if Im wrong. You guys have a penis. Some guys like stimulation and are open to experiment with other parts of their body..some arent. What makes you cum? The stroking motion..whether its by Hand, Mouth..Vagina, you get the idea. Thats the way you get off.
> 
> Women not only have a Vagina. We have a clit..and a Gspot. You can have sex without hitting the Gspot, and a woman can still orgasm that way. You can stimulate the clit without having sex..and we can orgasm that way. Or you can stimulate the Gspot and we can orgasm that way.
> 
> SOOOO, in my opinion your penis and testosterone..has NOTHING on our female parts.
> 
> Maybe you guys think you think about sex more than us..but if its done right..a woman will be thinking about sex way more than you. I think our bodies are just made that way, and its ashame most people think otherwise.


This goes back to the other post on a woman's view on sex. No doubt societies almost everywhere view a woman's sexuality as a negative. She's a ho, he's a lucky guy...

Then men and women both wonder why their marriage is not a cesspool of nasty sex that leads to intense pleasure shared with one person for the rest of their lives. 

Seems fairly obvious to me that there's more to it than just sex drives...

I also see another double standard here. One that says to women...you can't imagine but try to imagine while the men are not willing to imagine what it must be like to be a woman.

Something has to give.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

SockPuppet said:


> Now that there are 4 women on this board, who have voiced there opinion on my writing, I will reflect and see if I can assimilate something more female friendly, while maintaining my caveman status.


 I don't think there is anything that would insult MY senses here. Be REAL, stand up & be counted. Women are asking , give it to them straight. I can near fully understand all of you horndogs, I compared myself to a female B in heat before, it was freaking unrelenting. This doesn't sound very ladylike but it was how I FELT , why downplay it.



> Right. So we can't really imagine what it would be like. When I do for a moment, I imagine myself humping every inanimate object there is. I can't imagine being able to maintain any relationship, never-mind a monogamous one for the rest of my life *or even concentrating enough to get anything done*.


 Trenton, that IS how I felt, Honest to God, I would swear on the life of my children, everything became Blaaa to me, I had a very hard time concentrating, I had this BURST of energy too, I couldn't sleep at night, laying there staring at the clock waiting for the am to jump my husband again. I seriously felt I had a sex addiction, even posted on a forum about it --before I found this place !! I wanted to hump all freaking day. I know how crazy this sounds, but It was seriously MY experience. 

Monogomy wouldn't be easy with this kind of sexual intensity racking the brain -if your spouse was not there for you. I will forever thank my husband for caring enough during that time. I swear it was the 2nd hardest (but at the same time most exhilerating) time of our marriage, following infertility. 

I thank GOd for the experience though!! 

If anyone has missed this new thread in the Ladies Lounge, check it out : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/35111-female-sex-drive.html


----------



## Trenton

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't think there is anything that would insult MY senses here. Be REAL, stand up & be counted. Women are asking , give it to them straight. I can near fully understand all of you horndogs, I compared myself to a female B in heat before, it was freaking unrelenting. This doesn't sound very ladylike but it was how I FELT , why downplay it.
> 
> Trenton, that IS how I felt, Honest to God, I would swear on the life of my children, everything became Blaaa to me, I had a very hard time concentrating, I had this BURST of energy too, I couldn't sleep at night, laying there staring at the clock waiting for the am to jump my husband again. I seriously felt I had a sex addiction, even posted on a forum about it --before I found this place !! I wanted to hump all freaking day. I know how crazy this sounds, but It was seriously MY experience.
> 
> Monogomy wouldn't be easy with this kind of sexual intensity racking the brain -if your spouse was not there for you. I will forever thank my husband for caring enough during that time. I swear it was the 2nd hardest (but at the same time most exhilerating) time of our marriage, following infertility.
> 
> I thank GOd for the experience though!!
> 
> If anyone has missed this new thread in the Ladies Lounge, check it out : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/35111-female-sex-drive.html


I know. I thought of you. Have you had your hormones checked?

Our brains are tricky, amazing things. There is more to it than just hormones but there is no doubt that hormones can absolutely effect the way a person behaves and what they think/feel.


----------



## misterthhat

Trenton said:


> Wha?!?!
> 
> That's batass crazy. My poor husband at times has me following him around completely enraptured by my emotional attachment and attraction to him.


Please huh. Save it.

That women get more emotionally attached than men is the biggest relationship myth ever. In reality women are ice queens. Men are the ones who get more emotionally attached in relationships.


----------



## annagarret

I feel bad for men, I really, really do. They court us, marry us ,pledge their faithfulness to us, (basically taking themselves of the sexual market, thinking we will always be available to them) work their butts of for us and our children and as the marriage gets older and older we STILL ask them to more like, 50 % of the housework, talk more buy me more flowers, romance me......etc. etc. What more does a man have to do for the women he loves and has committed his life to? I mean seriously, a wife should never say no to her husband when he wants sex. Sex is like air to him, would a wife deny her husband air and see him suffer? Sadly, most wives ridicule there husbands for them wanting to have sex with THEM, not another women. Wives like this push their man right into the arms of another woman and then blame the man.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Trenton said:


> I know. I thought of you. Have you had your hormones checked?
> 
> Our brains are tricky, amazing things. There is more to it than just hormones but there is no doubt that hormones can absolutely effect the way a person behaves and what they think/feel.


1st of all, my feet are back on the ground. That only lasted 8 months. I kept a calender of it. And yes, I DID go to the OBGYN (for a regular check up) , I did not go in all of this CRAZY detail that I do on this forum, I mean, I was a little embarrassed !! But I did tell her ....."I don't know what in the world happened to me ,but all I can think about is SEX SEX SEX" , I think she asked about my husband -then she just congratulated me & said to "enjoy it" !! And well, I didn't exactly disagree with her!  But yeah, I kinda wish I did have them checked, I bet something was SKY FREAKING HIGH. 

2 things happened RIGHT smack before this came upon me... I was involved all that summer (heavily so) in a HUGE Community Fight to keep something out of our town, I was eating, drinking & sleeping this project - we WON the battle, it was against all odds, so the victory was like the whole town singing "We are the champions" thumbing our noses to those we beat, it was exhilerating beyond belief, a heavy weight lifted! They say when you WIN, it raises your TEST ! 

Then , feeling like I had been neglecting my husband, I stayed up all night one night scanning photos & made this movie maker video of us -all our years together, with a touching love song, played that thing back & cried a river, to where all the years went....this likely SPIKED my Dopamine to the heavens. Husband will say it started that day.

SO yeah, A TEST Boost and a mighty Dopamine boost all at the same time - this is the only explanation I have -hormonally. 


I think very much like you Annagarret ! :smthumbup:


----------



## Trenton

misterthhat said:


> Please huh. Save it.
> 
> That women get more emotionally attached than men is the biggest relationship myth ever. In reality women are ice queens. Men are the ones who get more emotionally attached in relationships.


So you are the mister that asks for understanding, states biology but refuses to look on the other side?


----------



## Trenton

annagarret said:


> I feel bad for men, I really, really do. They court us, marry us ,pledge their faithfulness to us, (basically taking themselves of the sexual market, thinking we will always be available to them) work their butts of for us and our children and as the marriage gets older and older we STILL ask them to more like, 50 % of the housework, talk more buy me more flowers, romance me......etc. etc. What more does a man have to do for the women he loves and has committed his life to? I mean seriously, a wife should never say no to her husband when he wants sex. Sex is like air to him, would a wife deny her husband air and see him suffer? Sadly, most wives ridicule there husbands for them wanting to have sex with THEM, not another women. Wives like this push their man right into the arms of another woman and then blame the man.


I suppose you get real freaky with your husband then?

I'm not saying that what you're saying is not true because I do think it is somewhat true if the man is as you described (of course there are a helluva lot of differentiation). 

Sex is like air to them though? I'm thinking they would give up sex for air any given day of the week. Let's not go overboard. There are plenty of men who will cheat on their wives regardless of how many times the woman puts out, there are also women who would like to give it more than they're getting. This entire topic is not as simple as sex is like air to men and women need to put out more. To think that is an injustice to both men and women.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

misterthhat said:


> That women get more emotionally attached than men is the biggest relationship myth ever.


 I agree with this part. 




> In reality women are ice queens. Men are the ones who get more emotionally attached in relationships.


 This I do NOT agree with at all. Some women are Ice Queens- indeed, but equally so ....there are men who are VERY emotionally distant.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Trenton said:


> Sex is like air to them though? I'm thinking they would give up sex for air any given day of the week. Let's not go overboard.


 Come on , it is an expression, Personally I would have used it myself. 



> There are plenty of men who will cheat on their wives regardless of how many times the woman puts out


 I am absolutely sure she was not talking about these kinds of men, and neither would I agree with her, if so.


----------



## that_girl

:rofl: This thread is cracking me up. I can tell why some people have relationship issues.


----------



## Trenton

SimplyAmorous said:


> Come on , it is an expression, Personally I would have used it myself.
> 
> I am absolutely sure she was not talking about these kinds of men, and neither would I agree with her, if so.


It was an exaggeration, the entire post was an exaggeration and in that same _breath _I'm supposed to dismiss that women are more emotional than men?

Seriously, SA, think about it. If you're going to credit testosterone for the high sex drive what are you going to attribute the hormones women live with to? You don't see the glaring double standard here?

I'm absolutely sure she wasn't talking about those men either but what's the split here? Do we have any idea? Are we really to believe that the majority of men are as she describes? Simply because you have testosterone coursing through your veins does not equate you deserve sex just as having female hormones coursing through your veins does not equate you deserve emotional support all the time.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Trenton said:


> Seriously, SA, think about it. If you're going to credit testosterone for the high sex drive what are you going to attribute the hormones women live with to? You don't see the glaring double standard here?


 Yes, I would attribute it very much, one of the reasons my husband is NOT like many of these men IS he is LOWER TEST, his hormones were checked , makes all the sense in the world to me. 

Not sure what you mean, but men put up with our PSMIng every month. I can tell you, in my own house, MY being irritable is way worse than anything my husband EVER does. I am sure other such marraiges exist. 

Ok we shouldn't make blanket statements, I agree!! If so, we deserve to be corrected. 



> Are we really to believe that the majority of men are as she describes?


 No I don't. But in my own circle of friends, I feel for many of their husbands, I can read her post and SEE their life in it. I have wanted to shake some of my girlfriends. So therefore I agreed. Of coarse on the other side, I have one friend who is treated horrible by her husband, terribly emotionally distant, rude, cold, uncaring, and she stays, I hate the man. Not all men are good , of coarse not. 





> Simply because you have testosterone coursing through your veins does not equate you deserve sex just as having female hormones coursing through your veins does not equate you deserve emotional support all the time.


 No, but it sure helps !!! .... and makes our lives more beautiful when our spouses are there for us in these wanting times, whether it be Pleasure or Emotional closeness. ...I say this IF we have "good" spouses we are thankful for, who we want to remain with, live out our lives with. 

My husband is my hero, any time I have gotten extra emotional (I am like any other crazed woman on this), he is right there with me, listens to all my BS, does whatever he can to make it better for me, he has a way of just brightening my whole world. Us women can do that for our men too -during their need, even if it isn't our need. 

Isn't it all about "attitude", forgiving the little things. If a man gets grouchy over sex, this is similar to a woman getting emotional over pms or having a bad day at work, etc. Both spouses , if they love each other dearly, should try to alleviate this as much as they can, as it may drive the other to want to be there more for them as well. 

Gotta start with someone, right !


----------



## Deejo

that_girl said:


> :rofl: This thread is cracking me up. I can tell why some people have relationship issues.


So the answer to the OP's post overall appears to be:

"Understand your sex drive? Why should I bother ... when is the last time you did anything for me or gave a crap about what I need? ... and you can talk to me about hormones when you start bleeding every month. Go take a cold shower or rub one out."

Makes perfect sense. This is definitely what keeps love alive.


So ... that_girl, do you understand your husband's drive, or is he simply a hapless victim of your otherwise male-like libido as well?


----------



## that_girl

Deejo said:


> So the answer to the OP's post overall appears to be:
> 
> 
> 
> So ... that_girl, do you understand your husband's drive, or is he simply a hapless victim of your otherwise male-like libido as well?


What the hell are you talking about! LOL My husband is sexually satisfied. Twice in the last 24 hours  Hopefully again tonight. Both times he initiated. Last night I was kinda drunk  This morning I was getting up to get the kid, but he stopped me for a quicky 

We don't have a problem with sex. We both enjoy it. We both enjoy doing it with each other, even on bad days, headaches, stressful days, etc. He says he needs it about 3 times a week. We do it about 5. He's not complaining


----------



## Deejo

that_girl said:


> What the hell are you talking about! LOL My husband is sexually satisfied. Twice in the last 24 hours  Hopefully again tonight. Both times he initiated. Last night I was kinda drunk  This morning I was getting up to get the kid, but he stopped me for a quicky
> 
> We don't have a problem with sex. We both enjoy it. We both enjoy doing it with each other, even on bad days, headaches, stressful days, etc. He says he needs it about 3 times a week. We do it about 5. He's not complaining


I am enviously aware of your frequency. 

My question is ... is your 5 X a week because you are giving him what he needs ... or are you going after what YOU want?

SA has already answered this question. Many times. And her answer makes sense to most men, because it adequately describes the way many men felt or feel about sex. 

Conversely, if he told you tomorrow that he only wants to have sex with you once every two weeks ... what would be going through your head?

I'm only putting you on the spot because you DO seem very engaged with your husband. 

There are distinct camps on this thing, and for the life of me I'm struggling to understand why.

There are women that simply cannot get behind the concept of a man questioning his deteriorating sex life, without wondering what he's doing to screw up his relationship.

And there are women that readily recognize that MANY men suffer from deteriorating sex lives, and don't make the same presumption.


----------



## Trenton

SimplyAmorous said:


> Yes, I would attribute it very much, one of the reasons my husband is NOT like many of these men IS he is LOWER TEST, his hormones were checked , makes all the sense in the world to me.
> 
> Not sure what you mean, but men put up with our PSMIng every month. I can tell you, in my own house, MY being irritable is way worse than anything my husband EVER does. I am sure other such marraiges exist.
> 
> Ok we shouldn't make blanket statements, I agree!! If so, we deserve to be corrected.
> 
> No I don't. But in my own circle of friends, I feel for many of their husbands, I can read her post and SEE their life in it. I have wanted to shake some of my girlfriends. So therefore I agreed. Of coarse on the other side, I have one friend who is treated horrible by her husband, terribly emotionally distant, rude, cold, uncaring, and she stays, I hate the man. Not all men are good , of coarse not.
> 
> 
> 
> No, but it sure helps !!! .... and makes our lives more beautiful when our spouses are there for us in these wanting times, whether it be Pleasure or Emotional closeness. ...I say this IF we have "good" spouses we are thankful for, who we want to remain with, live out our lives with.
> 
> My husband is my hero, any time I have gotten extra emotional (I am like any other crazed woman on this), he is right there with me, listens to all my BS, does whatever he can to make it better for me, he has a way of just brightening my whole world. Us women can do that for our men too -during their need, even if it isn't our need.
> 
> Isn't it all about "attitude", forgiving the little things. If a man gets grouchy over sex, this is similar to a woman getting emotional over pms or having a bad day at work, etc. Both spouses , if they love each other dearly, should try to alleviate this as much as they can, as it may drive the other to want to be there more for them as well.
> 
> Gotta start with someone, right !


I'm not actually talking about PMS. I'm talking about balance and understanding your spouse you know? In a happy relationship both feminine and masculine energy has to be balanced are recognized as well as appreciated.


----------



## Arnold

Therealbrighteyes said:


> If you think women aren't as horny as men, you are kidding yourself. The difference is it is acceptable for a man to say he is and women need to surpress theirs to be viewed as "good girls". That doesn't mean they don't want it as much they just have been taught not to express that.
> I subscribe to the Mae West way of thinking: When I'm good I'm good, when I'm bad I'm better. I make no apologies for liking sex and most women I have met feel the same way, albeit they may not say that openly.


This Marc Rudov guy says the same thing. He points to women's greater physical capacity for sex9no recovery time, multiple orgasms, ability to accomodate multiple partners in a short time etc) as evidence that men are wrong if they think they are the hornier gender.
Why do you think 35-45 year old women are gpoing after the 20 year old boys these days?It is a stamina deal.


----------



## Deejo

Trenton said:


> I'm not actually talking about PMS. I'm talking about balance and understanding your spouse you know? In a happy relationship both feminine and masculine energy has to be balanced are recognized as well as appreciated.


You've been visiting Manifesto again haven't you ...


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> I am enviously aware of your frequency.
> 
> My question is ... is your 5 X a week because you are giving him what he needs ... or are you going after what YOU want?
> 
> SA has already answered this question. Many times. And her answer makes sense to most men, because it adequately describes the way many men felt or feel about sex.
> 
> Conversely, if he told you tomorrow that he only wants to have sex with you once every two weeks ... what would be going through your head?
> 
> I'm only putting you on the spot because you DO seem very engaged with your husband.
> 
> There are distinct camps on this thing, and for the life of me I'm struggling to understand why.
> 
> There are women that simply cannot get behind the concept of a man questioning his deteriorating sex life, without wondering what he's doing to screw up his relationship.
> 
> And there are women that readily recognize that MANY men suffer from deteriorating sex lives, and don't make the same presumption.


I'm a woman and I am in neither camp. I don't understand why a woman would stop having sex with her husband to the point where they're down to once a month, year after year. I really don't. I can't imagine it, I've never lived it and I can't think of a reason why my relationship with my husband would turn into that because if it did, I'd be out of there I think.

If you think I do understand it or feel I have the solution for it then you've misunderstood me all along.

I have no excuses. I don't understand it.

I really think for me to understand it I'd have to hear both sides of the story and work with the couple to figure out what was going on. I'd at least have to lend my full concentration and be able to ask countless questions to the spouse seeking help before taking an educated guess.

I don't think there is a quick fix or a simple formula that will offer a solution.


----------



## Arnold

misterthhat said:


> Please huh. Save it.
> 
> That women get more emotionally attached than men is the biggest relationship myth ever. In reality women are ice queens. Men are the ones who get more emotionally attached in relationships.




I am not sure one gender is more icy than the other. But, I do see a lot of folks buying into the notions that men do not get as emotionally attached and I disagree.
For some reason, men are steroetyped this way, despite the prevalence of all the romantic poets, philosophers, artists etc that were/are male.
The whole Mars/Venus deal never seemed to comport with my sense of reality(whatever it might be).


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> You've been visiting Manifesto again haven't you ...




I'm easy to mock aren't I.

As Jack Handy said, "Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes."


----------



## Trenton

Arnold said:


> I am not sure one gender is more ic than the other. But, I do see a lot of folks buying inot the notions that men do not get as emootionally attached and I disagree.
> For sone reason, men are steroetyped this way, despite the prevalence of all the romantic poets, philosophers, artists etc that were/are male.
> The whole Mars/Venus deal never seemed to comport with my sense of reality(whatever it might be).


If we're going to attribute a man's desire for sex on his coursing testosterone and if we're going to generalize and say this is his never ending focus, I think you should be ready to understand that emotions are going to be secondary. Since women have different hormones that make them more emotional, it would make sense to put this first on their list.

In other words, do you want it both ways for men and where does this leave women?


----------



## Arnold

that_girl said:


> :rofl: This thread is cracking me up. I can tell why some people have relationship issues.


Don't be so hard on yourself, That girl. I am sure your relationship can improve with effort.


----------



## Trenton

Arnold said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself, That girl. I am sure your relationship can improve with effort.


You sort of remind me of Jack Handy. he he he he he


----------



## Arnold

Trenton said:


> If we're going to attribute a man's desire for sex on his coursing testosterone and if we're going to generalize and say this is his never ending focus, I think you should be ready to understand that emotions are going to be secondary. Since women have different hormones that make them more emotional, it would make sense to put this first on their list.
> 
> In other words, do you want it both ways for men and where does this leave women?


No. I think horniness is about the same in the genders, as is emotionality.


----------



## Arnold

Trenton said:


> You sort of remind me of Jack Handy. he he he he he


MIddle name is "Off", BTW.


----------



## Trenton

Arnold said:


> No. I think horniness is about the same in the genders, as is emotionality.


OK. Interesting.


----------



## Arnold

Well, maybe men are a little more emotionally evolved. But, just a little.


----------



## Catherine602

Deejo said:


> I am enviously aware of your frequency.
> 
> There are distinct camps on this thing, and for the life of me I'm struggling to understand why.
> 
> There are women that simply cannot get behind the concept of a man questioning his deteriorating sex life, without wondering what he's doing to screw up his relationship.
> 
> And there are women that readily recognize that MANY men suffer from deteriorating sex lives, and don't make the same presumption.


Isn't it the conventional wisdom in the marriage therapeutic community that sexual frequency and satisfaction is the barometer of marital satisfaction? I dont think that it is an invention by women. If the relationship is bad then the sexual connection is broken. It is usually the woman who refuses sex because her desire is effected by her happiness in the relationship. A mans desire is usually more robust and not as adversely effected. 

That does not mean that the man is at fault - both contribute to the problems but the effect on their desire to have sex is different. Apparently, most men will have sex regardless of marital issues and many woman find that hard to do. 

What is to be done? 
The current era is the first time that men and women have had to negotiate their respective roles in marriage. Up until now, the duties of husband and wife were clearly delineated. This is a period of flux and the gender that has to do the responsive changes are men. 

Marital problems no doubt have always caused fluctuation in female sexual desire but, absent of the prescriptive gender roles and female dependence on marriage, this is the first time that woman have acted on it. 

There is no reason to believe that the problems of this new landscape cannot be solved. But the solution will require both genders to work at the solution. The clock will not go back with the expectation that women put out when married. Additionally, women can not use sex to manipulate their spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Halien

I think we all know that there is no typical "Male sex drive" where we all fit into the category, as men. Some men, at least from what I can tell through my friends, focus on a very visual-based atmosphere where they pursue the sex drive. Or maybe its visual and context, like a wife trying new things that are a little out of the norm. I mean, I hear other guys describe what they like and it seems so different than what I think.

I've had a pretty healthy sex life, with one partner for a quarter of a century, so I definately notice some cycles going on. Not trying to make it sound antiseptic, but trying to approach it from the aspect of drive.

At its best, it feels like an intense dance made up of supportive actions and emotions between a man and his wife, from a man's point of view. The foundation is a woman who accepts, trusts, is just as committed, and really loves him. It won't work long term without this. Resentment, insecurities or an attitude of boredom leave a guy feeling like like he's outside in the cold, looking in, never able to fully connect to a great sex life. Both partners carry this burden.

When I say its like a dance, of sorts, I mean that a guy who is committed to keeping the sex life great thrives on a woman's laugh, or ability to entice, arouse, or even playfully tease him. He should challenge himself for her also, but that is assumed in this response. I don't think a woman can understand how this feels with a high level of testosterone inside. It literally makes a man feel powerful, fanatically committed to her within the moment, and of course fills a guy with intense arousal.

I think that, depending on a guy's testosterone level, the higher level guys go through a contentment phase after an evening or two of sex that can be very literally felt. Lower level testosterone guys go through the contentment phase, but less palpable, I suspect. Then, we can start feeling it building back into this dance.

To be honest, this is why I take a stance that some guys disagree with. I think its natural for a guy to pursue during the day, or at least urge his partner along in the intensity through the afternoon, in a healthy sex life. Yes, women can initiate. I'm not tryint to suggest that they don't. I just think a healthy sex life often follows through an intentional, ongoing connection, which builds, else the guy becomes one of those who has almost no sex drive. Others will disagree, but maybe some guys are too lazy to put the effort into the connection, some avoid for resentment, and some avoid because the partner is making it impossible, intentional or not. 

To think that it is just normal to look at my wife for the first time when we get to bed and say, "wanna do it?" is just not me, but I know plenty of guys who expect this to work for them. Of course, sometimes it happens - I mean Christmas comes on a Monday sometimes.... I'd also suggest that the ones who constantly try to introduce new partners, or new illicit thrills are the ones who are missing out on this 'dance'.


----------



## heartsbeating

Halien - what a beautiful and well-thought response. Apologies if I sound like a school teacher grading papers. A+


----------



## that_girl

My husband left me one night and my first words were "If this is what you need, then this is what you need." There was no anger. i was shocked, but wtf? Needs are needs and I don't hold that against him. God forbid I flip out one day ...life is long...We signed up for life. Shet will happen. Hopefully it doesn't involve anyone else, because that is my deal breaker.



I have sex 5 times a week because it's what we both want. Lately, he's had issues with erections because of stress and I say nothing. I don't even complain or ask if he could finish me off ....whatever. I have sex to feel close. i could give myself an orgasm. We snuggle instead.

If he said he only needed sex once every 2 weeks, we would have to talk about that ONLY because his desire is much more right now. I'd want to know why, as would anyone else. if it was simply because of stress, etc...fine. But we'd have to communicate. 

I could say I didn't want it anymore. There are a lot of "what ifs". I have learned to live in the NOW and right now, it's pretty good 

And, Arnold, my relationship IS improving with effort  Thank you! I think that's because I don't hold tight to stereotypes that say "ALL MEN do....". I also stopped keeping score, I stopped doing things with the mindset "what's in it for me" and learned to just do all things from Love. People call me a pushover (which is far from it) or weak or whatever...but I'm happy and still independent and my husband is happy. He's actually happy. Which is huge because he said he didn't believe in happiness.

ETA: He said he _needs_ it only 3 times a week but he wants it all the time. He likes to initiate it so i let him...and sometimes I initiate in a freaky way so that's fun


----------



## that_girl

I think a major issue is communication. Most women tend to talk about how they feel and men think they are too sensitive. Most men dont' talk enough about how they feel so women think they don't care.

Communicate. Not just talk.


----------



## Sawney Beane

Arnold said:


> No. I think horniness is about the same in the genders, as is emotionality.


Yep, there's a difference, but it's less than the precision of the measurement overall.


----------



## Sawney Beane

Halien said:


> At its best, it feels like an intense dance made up of supportive actions and emotions between a man and his wife, from a man's point of view.


The trouble is, it seems that in a lot of relationships one partner is doing the funky chicken and the other is morris dancing....


----------



## Sawney Beane

that_girl said:


> And, Arnold, my relationship IS improving with effort  Thank you! I think that's because I don't hold tight to stereotypes that say "ALL MEN do....". I also stopped keeping score, I stopped doing things with the mindset "what's in it for me" and learned to just do all things from Love. People call me a pushover (which is far from it) or weak or whatever...but I'm happy and still independent and my husband is happy. He's actually happy. Which is huge because he said he didn't believe in happiness.


You're doing all the things that people are supposed to and seldom do. People use stereotypes because it's quicker and less effort than actually looking at the facts. People keep score, and parcel out orgasms or acts of love like kids sharing sweets - one for you, one for me, and if there's one left over at the end, throw it away rather than risk your partner getting it when you don't. People look at every gesture and decide what's in it for them, and whether it's "their turn" to give or receive. Remember that the other partner looked at them in a funny way twenty years ago and never let them forget it.


----------



## Kobo

Halien said:


> To think that it is just normal to look at my wife for the first time when we get to bed and say, "wanna do it?" is just not me, but I know plenty of guys who expect this to work for them. Of course, sometimes it happens - I mean Christmas comes on a Monday sometimes.... I'd also suggest that the ones who constantly try to introduce new partners, or new illicit thrills are the ones who are missing out on this 'dance'.


You do that you're playing into the stereotype that most guys just come to bed and say "wanna do it". We could also play into the stereo type that most women miss a guys attempt to connect throughout the day because they're so focused on trying to complete a list that will never be completed. My opinion is until both partners decide that we come first before all these distractions in our lives it's going to be hit and miss.


----------



## Arnold

Catherine602 said:


> Isn't it the conventional wisdom in the marriage therapeutic community that sexual frequency and satisfaction is the barometer of marital satisfaction? I dont think that it is an invention by women. If the relationship is bad then the sexual connection is broken. It is usually the woman who refuses sex because her desire is effected by her happiness in the relationship. A mans desire is usually more robust and not as adversely effected.
> 
> That does not mean that the man is at fault - both contribute to the problems but the effect on their desire to have sex is different. Apparently, most men will have sex regardless of marital issues and many woman find that hard to do.
> 
> What is to be done?
> The current era is the first time that men and women have had to negotiate their respective roles in marriage. Up until now, the duties of husband and wife were clearly delineated. This is a period of flux and the gender that has to do the responsive changes are men.
> 
> Marital problems no doubt have always caused fluctuation in female sexual desire but, absent of the prescriptive gender roles and female dependence on marriage, this is the first time that woman have acted on it.
> 
> There is no reason to believe that the problems of this new landscape cannot be solved. But the solution will require both genders to work at the solution. The clock will not go back with the expectation that women put out when married. Additionally, women can not use sex to manipulate their spouse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I beleve marital problems affect each gender equally as regards wanting to be intimate. I know women who will have sex even if they are pissed and men who lose their desire for it. I think the above is a stereotype that is not true.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Kobo said:


> My opinion is until both partners decide that we come first before all these distractions in our lives it's going to be hit and miss.


This is very true, I had other pursuits on my mind for many years, there was alot of hit or miss, and this had nothing what so ever to do with resentment or any bad feelings against my husband, never a part of our story. There were parts of him I missed , deep parts, because I didn't give him enough of my time & attention, though he always craved alot, likely more than the average man would even want. Even then, we were awfully close.



> Originally Posted by *Sawney Bean *:
> People look at every gesture and decide what's in it for them, and whether it's "their turn" to give or receive. *Remember that the other partner looked at them in a funny way twenty years ago and never let them forget it*.



We were lying in bed this morning, he got teary eyed thinking about something happening to me. What started this is, a friend of ours is very ill & may not live -the sadness of this. I noticed he was quiet, I asked him what he was thinking about (as I often do)- he says if something happened to me, like if he had to give CPR, he might not know what to do- he was wiping tears away, just the thought can bring him to this place. My husband can be SO damn sentimental , so very beautiful really. He is such a calm cool stable man- I accually used to think in the past- he probably isn't all that "emotional" - because outwardly he does not show this, very reserved -boy what I didn't know! I was missing this part of him in the past. 

...BUT what he is *not*, nor has he ever been thank God .....is ...... overly sensitive - I could say literally anything to him without his getting offended, some people might even think he is a doormat given the things I have unleashed on him- just being honest, I asked him how does he really feel about that - he says NO, he knows my heart - & adds "* ya know -too many people get offended way too easily.... it ruins marriages, they destroy themselves*". He also added "*Being Stubborn, people can't admit when they were wrong -to each other*". His words today. I so agree, as it stunts communication terribly.


----------



## Halien

Kobo said:


> You do that you're playing into the stereotype that most guys just come to bed and say "wanna do it". We could also play into the stereo type that most women miss a guys attempt to connect throughout the day because they're so focused on trying to complete a list that will never be completed. My opinion is until both partners decide that we come first before all these distractions in our lives it's going to be hit and miss.


I really wasn't trying to make it sound stereotypical, because I think that some men who behave this way often do so because the relationship is broken down in some way. Lots of reasons. It maybe be a minority, but I've just had a few friends tell me over the years that they don't know why they never have sex anymore. In some cases, it seems pretty obvious when you see how poorly the wife communicates with the guy, or vice versa. Sometimes, a few friends treat sex like buying a Blu-ray player. "Let's talk specs". 

I don't want to sound like bragging, but I know that I'm bullheaded, so I can rationalize how I wish it was in my relationship, versus what I force to happen. My wife can't do some of the things that are very important to me in a sexual relationship on an emotional level. For years, I just treated her like she did. I think some emotional healthier guys would've quit trying - hence my own manning up journey. In the early years, I rationalized it as my wife feeling insecure with the fact that I was very active sexually since a preteen. Later, I just quit rationilizing it and saw it as a sad quirk of hers that she couldn't see that my needs were different than what she thought.


----------



## annagarret

I simply meant that sex to a man is a basic need in life, like food, water, and yes AIR. For many years I didn't GET it. 

And Yes, I do get pretty freaky with my husband. If my man wants me I always tell him yes, we are married I am not going to play any mental/mind/do this for me and I will do this for you head games


----------



## SimplyAmorous

annagarret said:


> I simply meant that sex to a man is a basic need in life, like food, water, and yes AIR. For many years I didn't GET it.
> 
> And Yes, I do get pretty freaky with my husband. If my man wants me I always tell him yes, we are married I am not going to play any mental/mind/do this for me and I will do this for you head games


Annagarret... I think when we "didn't get it " in the past....then we finally get that REVALATION, we tend to even go a little overboard , and yes, even with our expressions -out of the guilt we feel for screwing that up and not being able to go back in time & make up for it , some things are lost. 

I bet you would agree.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

annagarret said:


> I simply meant that sex to a man is a basic need in life, like food, water, and yes AIR. For many years I didn't GET it.
> 
> And Yes, I do get pretty freaky with my husband. If my man wants me I always tell him yes, we are married I am not going to play any mental/mind/do this for me and I will do this for you head games


Being a man... I disagree

Sex is not like food, water or air without those you die

Sex is a WANT a HUGE FREAKING WANT. I can live without sex but life is not as carefree nor as happy.

So to wives I say... isn't it worth it knowing you basically have your husbands #1 WANT literally at your fingertips. Why on Earth don't you prioritize that? THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR SEX WITH YOU the wife he loves and promised his love to monogamously.

It comes down to the fact that marriage comes with an implicit sexual commitment NO MATTER WHAT...I shouldn't have to get "lucky" with my own wife! EVER!

I don't think I'll ever understand my wife and her being ok with having sex only every month to four months, now even a bit longer . She knows I want it she does nothing to change... shes a-ok with rejection after rejection. Choosing sleep over sex Yet she wants to stay married to me.

How long does sex take really... I think its a good return on the time invested knowing a satisfied husband will move mountains for you where a starved husband will do a 180 to knock some sense into your head! OR move on... like me. My wife now reaps what she DIDN'T sow.

Day 1 of my 180 after 2 years of trying my best for her.


----------



## Catherine602

Arnold said:


> I beleve marital problems affect each gender equally as regards wanting to be intimate. I know women who will have sex even if they are pissed and men who lose their desire for it. I think the above is a stereotype that is not true.


Why is it a serotype because most men are one way and most women are another. It is true. I thought we were talking about male sexuality because it was distinctly different from the female. I thought one element was a man's ability to shut out distractions and the confusion that women are not the same. 

It is obvious that not all men and women are this way but the overwhelming majority are, according to what I have read and seen on this forum. Outliers don't change the central tendency. Ignoring the many to highlight the few, adds nothing to the goal of understanding.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Trying2figureitout said:


> Being a man... I disagree
> 
> Sex is not like food, water or air without those you die
> 
> Sex is a WANT a HUGE FREAKING WANT. I can live without sex but life is not as carefree nor as happy.


Whether you disagree or agree with that comment... if more wives FELT how it was expressed and LIVED as if it were the truth - how much male suffering would be alleviated ? 

I agree with the darn comment. You know why, being miserable is LIKE A DEATH. ANd it also can lead to the DEATH of the marriage, it suffocates it. 

When women start making the excuses .."Well, it is just a *WANT* after all" -she will also rationalize how it is NOT necessary, most especially if she is not into it . 

I think the "mindset", even if exaggerated, is very healthy for marraiges. I surely can't see it doing any harm unless the husband didn't want it !!


----------



## Kobo

SimplyAmorous said:


> Whether you disagree or agree with that comment... if more wives FELT how it was expressed and LIVED as if it were the truth - how much male suffering would be alleviated ?
> 
> I agree with the darn comment. You know why, being miserable is LIKE A DEATH. ANd it also can lead to the DEATH of the marriage, it suffocates it.
> 
> When women start making the excuses .."Well, it is just a *WANT* after all" -she will also rationalize how it is NOT necessary, most especially if she is not into it .
> 
> I think the "mindset", even if exaggerated, is very healthy for marraiges. I surely can't see it doing any harm unless the husband didn't want it !!


It's a need and men should stop being ashamed of calling it a need. Kids need a healthy diet. They can "live" with less than a healthy diet. It doesn't take away the need. A man can gain a release of his sexual energy through masturbation. It doesn't take away from his need for sexual contact with the woman he loves.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Who's doing this though? What I often find are fathers telling their daughters "he's only after one thing" and mothers telling their daughters "don't be THAT girl". I mean how many times to you hear a father say once his daughter starts dating he's buying a gun. Granted he is joking (mostly) but the undercurrent in that is men are after one thing only and the father must protect his daughters virtue. The mother tells the daughter when she starts dating to be a "good girl". Haven't you heard this before? I sure have. What does this teach us?


And those fathers and mothers are giving this advice to their daughters also saying that these guys are great guys, studs and to be admired because they want sex? No. The implicit, if not explicit, message is that they are pigs for wanting that - that wanting sex is a bad thing. A good guy should not be asking for or wanting sex.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Kobo said:


> It's a need and men should stop being ashamed of calling it a need. Kids need a healthy diet. They can "live" with less than a healthy diet. It doesn't take away the need. A man can gain a release of his sexual energy through masturbation. It doesn't take away from his need for sexual contact with the woman he loves.


It would alter this to say it is a need for a relationship/marriage. Without it, or below a certain frequency, my marriage would suffer and starve. Without it, resentment builds, much the same way as some people become resentful if their emotional needs are not met. 

Having been with my wife for over 17 years now (dating and married), I have troubles thinking back to before we got together. But I can decribe my sex drive since we have been together. As noted above, I need it to keep our connection. That is the one thing that we share that no one else gets to do - have sex with each other. That is a unique connection that I need "refreshed" regularly. Being intimate with her daily when possible (and by intimate, I don't mean just sex, I mean touching, kissing and cuddling) is a must. Regular sex is also a must. We went through a period where that did not happen, and our marriage was not in a good place. 

On an objective note, I have noticed that when I have not had sex recently, I notice women more. If my wife and I were together last night, I can walk down the street and not notice anyone. By a couple of days later, I seem to notice more and more women. Not in the "God, I want to jumpt them" manner, but in the "she's cute", or "she has nice legs" or "I like the freckles" sort of way. I just notice them a lot more.


----------



## that_girl

I just tell my daughter to not fall for the lines. And I don't want her to be "that girl" (lolll). I wouldn't want my son to be "that guy" either, if I had a son. We teach self respect in this house. We also teach street smarts. lol. Can't raise gullible kids. Many of my female friends were told "but I love you!" by their bfs in HS, once they had sex they never called back. Nice.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Ok... depends on perspective

YES...in terms of marriage or any relationship that wants to be truly loving and survive ... The male sex drive is a 100% NEED. All females in relationships need to realize that.

But its not a NEED like air water or food. Lots of males do fine without sex but they still REALLY WANT IT... hence rapists.

Actually the male drive is closest to a DRUG ADDICTION more than anything, pretty much same brain receptors. Men will do anything to get their FIX as much as possible. Difference is its a good addiction doesn't cause death with a monogamous female partner. In fact improves health.


----------



## HaHa

> If your a woman, do you understand the male sex drive?
> If you said yes to the above, please explain.


I don’t know that I would say that I understand it, but here is what I know about my husband..

He needs sex. He feels closest to me when his sexual needs are being met. It’s how he feels most loved by me. So for me, that means that if I want to show him how much I love him then I try to meet that need daily. Now that may not be sex every day, but there are other sexual acts that I can do to make him happy if I am not in the mood. It’s a very basic need for him.

I don’t know if that is every male’s sex drive, but that is what I know my husband needs.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

HaHa said:


> I don’t know that I would say that I understand it, but here is what I know about my husband..
> 
> He needs sex. He feels closest to me when his sexual needs are being met. It’s how he feels most loved by me. So for me, that means that if I want to show him how much I love him then I try to meet that need daily. Now that may not be sex every day, but there are other sexual acts that I can do to make him happy if I am not in the mood. It’s a very basic need for him.
> 
> I don’t know if that is every male’s sex drive, but that is what I know my husband needs.


Spot on. He's a lucky man. If he ever cheats on you let me know!


----------



## LimboGirl

SockPuppet said:


> EDIT: I wrote this before reading Deejo's post. Im just providing my two cents in my own way. I feel that if you have a problem with what I wrote, its due to semantics, but feel free to question what I have to say.
> 
> Im still learning a lot about the emotional connections we create during our pursuit of sex, so there is only so much I can share, and what I do share is my personal take on it, which I feel is wholly valid, assuming you can get around the fact that I can be a pig from time to time.
> 
> Let me give a very poor example. Remember the time your Husband bought you flowers, planned a romantic night out, did something special that you hold as a cherished memory of his love for you.
> I feel much the same when receiving oral sex from my wife. Sure, it looks hot, and it feels hotter, and in the moment, that’s probably all that’s going through my mind. But deeper inside, I feel that she is showing her love by performing this act. By enthusiastically giving me 100% of her attention, devoted to my sexual satisfaction. And its this thought that allows me to trancend from giving in to some primal urge, and truly bonding with wifey.
> 
> Reading over that paragraph, I feel that it doesn’t accurately get my point across, but you may be able to find meaning in my words. Maybe it would be easiest to sum it up as,. “I believe sexual acts to be the main love language of human males.”
> 
> When I ask my wife to dress up as an astronaught, or if I want to indroduce 3 other girls into our bed, its not because Im an astrophile, or that I want to have an FFFFM orgy, although that would be sweet, its because I want to open up new ways of connecting.
> 
> But that’s what my wife wont get, she takes one look at the astronaught suit and three other girls standing in the doorway and she assumes Im some cheating, perverted freak of nature. Maybe she will blame the porn or satan or think that all men are deviants. Sex is in our nature and we want to express it in many, many ways and not just for the pure reason of sex, although that’s kind of why. It’s a paradox, and one Im terribly poor at explaining.
> 
> If you need clarification, just ask…. God knows I do


Thank you. I'm just getting back to this thread. Thanksgiving and all.

I think I'm getting what you are saying about oral sex. This could possibly relate to my husband.


----------



## annagarret

Trenton said:


> It was an exaggeration, the entire post was an exaggeration and in that same _breath _I'm supposed to dismiss that women are more emotional than men?
> 
> Seriously, SA, think about it. If you're going to credit testosterone for the high sex drive what are you going to attribute the hormones women live with to? You don't see the glaring double standard here?
> 
> I'm absolutely sure she wasn't talking about those men either but what's the split here? Do we have any idea? Are we really to believe that the majority of men are as she describes? Simply because you have testosterone coursing through your veins does not equate you deserve sex just as having female hormones coursing through your veins does not equate you deserve emotional support all the time.


this was not an exaggeration at all! Or course I want to have sex with my husband and he wants to talk and give me emotional support, there is no double standard. I meant that I know deep down in his soul that his body and mind crave sexual intimacy with me on a regular, if not daily basis. This physical yearning can be intense and comparable to a daily need. He can go anywhere to get food and drink but he can only depend on me, his wife for sexual intimacy and I will not let him down.


----------



## LimboGirl

Trying2figureitout said:


> Sure LimboGirl thaks for being enlightened to seek a answer... I think women need to know if they understood many marriages could thrive!
> 
> Here's the deal... I really like sex I would say its my favorite thing to do, It is a super powerful feeling and when I have it my day becomes instantly better. My mind is eased and able to be used for everything else. Porn and masturbation help when its missing but its not the same. Not even close! There is no emotional component, no warmth, no smell, no taste its artificial.
> 
> Sex when coupled with a wife you love is the best.... it makes me feel emotionally close and gives me a chance to explore my beautiful wife's body. I like the fact that she is willing to spend time with me intimately... i know how busy she is so this time is special.
> 
> The feeling of closeness lasts for up to 10 days then I need to bond again if she allows it. prefer more but sadly that has never happened in my marriage.
> 
> I feel like I satisfy her in the process so its and extension of feeling love... I always try to bring her to O before my O. I totally want her to be into it also. Pity sex is the worst! I''d rather have none if that's the case! Most all ejaculations need to be internal mostly V but sometimes O and A. It helps mentally to know my sperm is in my wife.
> 
> I would love everyday...Be ultra happy with twice a week... however I can accept every 2-3 weeks (because of work schedules and my own compromise). In between closeness helps a lot also. In all it makes me feel at ease and so much more connected to my wife.
> 
> I compare it to a pilots need to fly... I mean he can stay grounded but that day sucks.
> 
> Its not all about the "act" its about the intimate closeness and the security that you feel your wife loves you and is willing to give you time for you and you alone in a way she does with no one else.
> 
> Does that help?
> 
> I'm in a now two year old sexless marriage ;( it is on my mind 99.8% of my waking hours.
> 
> I don't think women have a corollary... I guess the best way to envision it is pick your favorite thing to do ever and ask yourself if you could how much would you do it? Then you might start to get close to what men feel. Its all very primal urges... its at our core.
> 
> BTW..Dr Oz said men need to ejaculate six times per week for health reasons (Prostate mainly) its all unique to males through evolution.


I never thought about the fact that it makes you feel bonded for a certain amount of time. This is really something to think about. I know for my husband sex is one of the issues in our marriage. I have always treated it as if he would communicate openly we wouldn't have a sex issue. Probably a circle thing in reality. We are in MC so hope we can work all this out. Thank you for your post. I am getting there.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

LimboGirl said:


> I never thought about the fact that it makes you feel bonded for a certain amount of time. This is really something to think about. I know for my husband sex is one of the issues in our marriage. I have always treated it as if he would communicate openly we wouldn't have a sex issue. Probably a circle thing in reality. We are in MC so hope we can work all this out. Thank you for your post. I am getting there.


Your welcome...

Just remember a man isn't likely to be the best communicator when he is not sexually satisfied (especially over the long term)...in fact you are lucky if he talks or smiles at all! He wants sex no matter what else is going on. There is no good reason not to have sex unless wife can't for some "good" reason most men think. Add in "as long as she wants it too" until it gets extreme in terms of lack.

You allow all the sex he can handle in ways he likes it and I'll bet all my money he becomes the communicator you are looking for! And more.


One more way to put it...

My wife..Remembers every single slight I ever did or ones she imagined i did. Back to our first date.
I remember...Every single sex act in my life.. back to my first lay. That's a lot of sex some without her.

I don't think we are atypical male or female's. Our brains are just wired differently. Again it goes back to evolution.

Me...Needing to mate to extend the species.
Her..Needing to protect her children and herself to extend the species. Also she needs to find the best mate.

I think Black Widow spiders taker this to the extreme..just eat the bastard.


----------



## Sawney Beane

Kobo said:


> It's a need and men should stop being ashamed of calling it a need. Kids need a healthy diet. They can "live" with less than a healthy diet. It doesn't take away the need.


Great analogy. You can survive for quite a long time on a deficient diet, and not exercising won't kill you in the short term, but both of these have corrosive, long term effects. Even if you do manage to live a long time, your quality of life is reduced. Same way you can shut people up in solitary confinement for long periods and they will live, but they don't usually thrive.


----------



## LimboGirl

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I misunderstood him then. I didn't realize he was talking fantasy, I thought he was literally saying he wanted 3 women and **sigh** she doesn't get that. His writing style is off and 2 women here thought the same. I am not being argumentative at all, I read what he literally wrote.
> OP, I think women get men just fine. Hell, we have the same fantasies.


I don't know that I get men.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Sawney Beane said:


> Great analogy. You can survive for quite a long time on a deficient diet, and not exercising won't kill you in the short term, but both of these have corrosive, long term effects. Even if you do manage to live a long time, your quality of life is reduced. Same way you can shut people up in solitary confinement for long periods and they will live, but they don't usually thrive.


I think one place where men and women miss each other is where resentment comes from for the other. Men are often resentful when there is no sex, more so then a lot of women. Perhaps because for many women, going without sex for a period of time is not a big deal. Women are often resentful when there is no communication. Again, many men don't think this is a big deal. This is based mostly on personal experience, but also on many of the posts I have read here over the past 3-4 months.

My wife often comments about how she is surprised that a good friend and I can go months without talking, then pick up where we left off. To us, it is not a big deal, but to her, the lack of communication would really hurt the relationship.


----------



## LimboGirl

Trying2figureitout said:


> Your welcome...
> 
> Just remember a man isn't likely to be the best communicator when he is not sexually satisfied (especially over the long term)...in fact you are lucky if he talks or smiles at all! He wants sex no matter what else is going on. There is no good reason not to have sex unless wife can't for some "good" reason most men think. Add in "as long as she wants it too" until it gets extreme in terms of lack.
> 
> You allow all the sex he can handle in ways he likes it and I'll bet all my money he becomes the communicator you are looking for! And more.
> 
> 
> One more way to put it...
> 
> My wife..Remembers every single slight I ever did or ones she imagined i did. Back to our first date.
> I remember...Every single sex act in my life.. back to my first lay. That's a lot of sex some without her.
> 
> I don't think we are atypical male or female's. Our brains are just wired differently. Again it goes back to evolution.
> 
> Me...Needing to mate to extend the species.
> Her..Needing to protect her children and herself to extend the species. Also she needs to find the best mate.
> 
> I think Black Widow spiders taker this to the extreme..just eat the bastard.


Oddly enough our sex life has gotten worse since we have been in MC. I think because we both have to face things. I don't know if this will help you. I haven't read all your threads. My husband would say things like "It must not mean the same thing to you." "You never want to do it." "You never initiate." These comments actually made it worse. I felt like I must not like sex. This is not true. So as you can see there are a lot of issues.

I actually am looking for the guys viewpoint on this and have not been offended by anything any of the guys have said. 

Thank you so much. Will keep reading.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

LimboGirl said:


> I actually am looking for the guys viewpoint on this and have not been offended by anything any of the guys have said.


Does this mean you have been offended by some of the things the ladies have said ?


----------



## LimboGirl

SimplyAmorous said:


> Does this mean you have been offended by some of the things the ladies have said ?


Not really. Some of it has been off subject. Even the things off subject have been interesting. I think another good thread would be how to present sexuality to our daughters. I think for a lot of people there is a double standard there.

Back on topic. Let me explain my reasons for starting the thread. I have always been guilty of thinking the sex problems were not as great a concern because in my mind he has creating so many problems that I felt unloved and used.

I am not in a sexless marriage. I'm in a low sex marriage that was even getting to the point of bothering me. I started looking at different viewpoints in the sexless marriage threads. I never realized how painful this is to a man or woman. I really want to take this problem out of our marriage. I thought the men could help me the most on this topic.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

LimboGirl said:


> Oddly enough our sex life has gotten worse since we have been in MC. I think because we both have to face things. I don't know if this will help you. I haven't read all your threads. My husband would say things like "It must not mean the same thing to you." "You never want to do it." "You never initiate." These comments actually made it worse. I felt like I must not like sex. This is not true. So as you can see there are a lot of issues.
> 
> I actually am looking for the guys viewpoint on this and have not been offended by anything any of the guys have said.
> 
> Thank you so much. Will keep reading.


I know better than to frame it that way to my wife. I've learned to always talk about how it affects me instead. Originally I framed it in the view of "averages and statistics" which was stupid and wrong... she felt lectured too. Probably made her feel abnormal. Then I stuck my foot in my mouth saying that our sex life was never up to my desire level. That brought out months later "Well you said you didn't like it so why bother" I had to back track BIG TIME! and explain its mainly frequency not quality. What a crazy thought she had...I obviously want it with her. She twists my words.

Afterward I framed it in terms of how it affects me day to day and what I desire and a "workable middle" 2-3x per month.... still so far hasn't sunk through. Been over 4 months although gave her that desire level three weeks ago.

I'm pretty much done talking about it... she heard me and she is not deaf. She is intelligent but I think she just has no clue and thinks I'm somehow making this stuff up. So in the end I'm not mad but highly dissapointed she discounts my views on sexuality. To her every 4-5 months is good..its not. Nowhere close!


----------



## LimboGirl

In my above post I said I started the post, I meant to say started reading.


----------



## ManDup

Trenton said:


> Hmmmm yes. Well, your mistake was typing that your wife can't understand your desire to have a threesome. It's offensive. If you made it clear you were fantasizing or whatnot that would've been different. It's not necessarily the style you write in but the context of your words so you're either not saying what you intend to or are a sick sock puppet.


No, I think you're missing the point. No man jumped on him for the language. We all understood the desire to have an actual threesome, not just to have a fantasy about one. Were he to say, "I'm going to ask my wife for a fivesome" or whatever (which is not what he said), we might advise him from a rational point of view that it might not be wise, and that such things are fraught with peril, as I have so advised several men in the past. But I've never had a problem understanding that their desire was real, and I don't blame them for it. What guy wouldn't want the attention of half a dozen women?

And here's where we get down to the issue with male drive vs. female. Most guys are afraid to be up front and frank with their wives about even having a fantasy about such a thing, never mind that they secretly harbor a desire for the reality, though such things are near universal. Your husband will deny it but it's true. He will deny it because he is afraid. He's afraid you will freak out, which you will. It puts a pall on the marriage to have such untruths floating around, but that is the reality of men vs. women relationships.


----------



## ManDup

Trying2figureitout said:


> I know better than to frame it that way to my wife. I've learned to always talk about how it affects me instead. Originally I framed it in the view of "averages and statistics" which was stupid and wrong... she felt lectured too. Probably made her feel abnormal. Then I stuck my foot in my mouth saying that our sex life was never up to my desire level. That brought out months later "Well you said you didn't like it so why bother" I had to back track BIG TIME! and explain its mainly frequency not quality. What a crazy thought she had...I obviously want it with her. She twists my words.
> 
> Afterward I framed it in terms of how it affects me day to day and what I desire and a "workable middle" 2-3x per month.... still so far hasn't sunk through. Been over 4 months although gave her that desire level three weeks ago.
> 
> I'm pretty much done talking about it... she heard me and she is not deaf. She is intelligent but I think she just has no clue and thinks I'm somehow making this stuff up. So in the end I'm not mad but highly dissapointed she discounts my views on sexuality. To her every 4-5 months is good..its not. Nowhere close!


The way we read the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and "I like sex but not with you" around here is generally that they are cheating, or thinking very strongly about it. If not, and she really is sexless, it's because her desire for you is dead, for good reason, and you can fix that:
Go to Married Man Sex Life and buy the book.


----------



## Enchantment

LimboGirl said:


> Not really. Some of it has been off subject. Even the things off subject have been interesting. I think another good thread would be how to present sexuality to our daughters. I think for a lot of people there is a double standard there.
> 
> Back on topic. Let me explain my reasons for starting the thread. I have always been guilty of thinking the sex problems were not as great a concern because in my mind he has creating so many problems that I felt unloved and used.
> 
> I am not in a sexless marriage. I'm in a low sex marriage that was even getting to the point of bothering me. I started looking at different viewpoints in the sexless marriage threads. I never realized how painful this is to a man or woman. I really want to take this problem out of our marriage. I thought the men could help me the most on this topic.


Then be the one to make the first moves to get out of limbo, LimboGirl. 

I think from a few of your other posts that I've read, you have an idea of what is important to your husband, yes?

Divorce Busting® - I Want to Save My Marriage - Why Change?

And, here to understand more about your husband (you can skip any of the 'Christian' sections if you desire):

Understanding Your Husband's Sexual Needs - Focus on the Family

Best wishes.


----------



## ManDup

Catherine602 said:


> Why is it a serotype because most men are one way and most women are another. It is true. I thought we were talking about male sexuality because it was distinctly different from the female. I thought one element was a man's ability to shut out distractions and the confusion that women are not the same.
> 
> It is obvious that not all men and women are this way but the overwhelming majority are, according to what I have read and seen on this forum. Outliers don't change the central tendency. Ignoring the many to highlight the few, adds nothing to the goal of understanding.


I agree. I think Arnold is equalist to a fault. If both genders are the same, why isn't everyone bi? Of course there are exceptions, just as there are bi people, but that doesn't change the fact that in the main men and women are predictably different.


----------



## LimboGirl

Enchantment said:


> Then be the one to make the first moves to get out of limbo, LimboGirl.
> 
> I think from a few of your other posts that I've read, you have an idea of what is important to your husband, yes?
> 
> Divorce Busting® - I Want to Save My Marriage - Why Change?
> 
> And, here to understand more about your husband (you can skip any of the 'Christian' sections if you desire):
> 
> Understanding Your Husband's Sexual Needs - Focus on the Family
> 
> Best wishes.


Thank you. TAM is helping a lot, along with MC.


----------



## LimboGirl

ManDup said:


> No, I think you're missing the point. No man jumped on him for the language. We all understood the desire to have an actual threesome, not just to have a fantasy about one. Were he to say, "I'm going to ask my wife for a fivesome" or whatever (which is not what he said), we might advise him from a rational point of view that it might not be wise, and that such things are fraught with peril, as I have so advised several men in the past. But I've never had a problem understanding that their desire was real, and I don't blame them for it. What guy wouldn't want the attention of half a dozen women?
> 
> And here's where we get down to the issue with male drive vs. female. Most guys are afraid to be up front and frank with their wives about even having a fantasy about such a thing, never mind that they secretly harbor a desire for the reality, though such things are near universal. Your husband will deny it but it's true. He will deny it because he is afraid. He's afraid you will freak out, which you will. It puts a pall on the marriage to have such untruths floating around, but that is the reality of men vs. women relationships.


There are many fantasies I would have a hard time telling my husband about, also.


----------



## aston

It's a shame most women only have a tabloid / media propagated idea of what the male sex drive is like. Men are more sexually complicated than most would like to believe, yes we are driven by visuals but there's a deeper component. A woman has to be in tune with a man to understand this.
On the women side I can't say much since I'm not a woman. Though I get the feeling sometimes that women don't really like sex......they just pretend to until they have a ring on their finger. Then it's Pine Sol and nagging thereon forth LOL


----------



## ManDup

SimplyAmorous said:


> Whether you disagree or agree with that comment... if more wives FELT how it was expressed and LIVED as if it were the truth - how much male suffering would be alleviated ?
> 
> I agree with the darn comment. You know why, being miserable is LIKE A DEATH. ANd it also can lead to the DEATH of the marriage, it suffocates it.
> 
> When women start making the excuses .."Well, it is just a *WANT* after all" -she will also rationalize how it is NOT necessary, most especially if she is not into it .
> 
> I think the "mindset", even if exaggerated, is very healthy for marraiges. I surely can't see it doing any harm unless the husband didn't want it !!


I'm glad women are beginning to understand this. I hope we can follow the example too. I think most men understand that women need emotional connection through the day and romanticism etc., because society beats it into us all, but still we men sometimes ignore that message. I guess society also beats it into us that men need sex, so I think the thing for us all to realize is that somebody has to be the first to give. And also that if the giving is not reciprocated maybe we're giving the wrong thing, or need some communication about other issues.


----------



## ManDup

LimboGirl said:


> There are many fantasies I would have a hard time telling my husband about, also.


That makes sense, but I hadn't thought of it. I am always glad to have my own stereotypes overturned.

Interesting. Do tell :rofl:


----------



## that_girl

Trying2figureitout said:


> Ok... depends on perspective
> 
> YES...in terms of marriage or any relationship that wants to be truly loving and survive ... The male sex drive is a 100% NEED. All females in relationships need to realize that.
> 
> But its not a NEED like air water or food. Lots of males do fine without sex but they still REALLY WANT IT... hence rapists.
> 
> Actually the male drive is closest to a DRUG ADDICTION more than anything, pretty much same brain receptors. Men will do anything to get their FIX as much as possible. Difference is its a good addiction doesn't cause death with a monogamous female partner. In fact improves health.



Rape is not about sex, but about power.


----------



## Arnold

Catherine602 said:


> Why is it a serotype because most men are one way and most women are another. It is true. I thought we were talking about male sexuality because it was distinctly different from the female. I thought one element was a man's ability to shut out distractions and the confusion that women are not the same.
> 
> It is obvious that not all men and women are this way but the overwhelming majority are, according to what I have read and seen on this forum. Outliers don't change the central tendency. Ignoring the many to highlight the few, adds nothing to the goal of understanding.


Yes, I agree , if you accept that these are "outliers". But, in my experience and based on what I have read, the men I describe are typical. I have read and seen a ton of stuff that indicates to me that this whole majority ofmen compartmentalizing deal is not true, and that there are just as many women who desire sex without emotional connection or who can compartmentalize.


----------



## LimboGirl

ManDup said:


> That makes sense, but I hadn't thought of it. I am always glad to have my own stereotypes overturned.
> 
> Interesting. Do tell :rofl:


No. I'm going to work on my marriage and tell my husband. But I will say men are not the only ones that fantasize about more than two people. I am going to assume that he has fantasies he has been too afraid to tell me. This could do us a lot of good.


----------



## aston

LimboGirl said:


> No. I'm going to work on my marriage and tell my husband. But I will say men are not the only ones that fantasize about more than two people. I am going to assume that he has fantasies he has been too afraid to tell me. This could do us a lot of good.


We all have fantasies but I think we have over -idealized marriages and relationships to the point where we are not comfortable discussing those fantasies with our partners. 
Why do you think most second marriages (or affairs) are always filled with better sex...thats because you've learnt alot of lessons and given a fresh opportunity you will maximize it.


----------



## that_girl

I don't understand why people didn't get their fantasies out of their head (either in real life or just let them go) BEFORE marrying someone whom they knew wouldn't be into their fantasy.

I'm sure those who want to have sex with other people as a "fantasy" didn't just wake up one morning and think, "Gee, a 3some sounds awesome!" 

Wasn't this what college was for??


----------



## Deejo

The important role fantasy plays is being a conduit for communication and sharing. Whether or not you actually perform or fulfill the fantasy (particularly if discussing turning your sessions from a duo to a trio or more ...) is immaterial.

Feeling safe about discussing intimate fantasies builds connection ... and is usually the springboard for some pretty passionate sex, with or without said fantasy applied.


----------



## that_girl

aston said:


> We all have fantasies but I think we have over -idealized marriages and relationships to the point where we are not comfortable discussing those fantasies with our partners.
> Why do you think most second marriages (or affairs) are always filled with better sex...thats because you've learnt alot of lessons and given a fresh opportunity you will maximize it.


Also, people just don't talk about sex. Period.

For my husband and I, this was a topic of conversation on the 3rd date...and we hadn't even had sex yet 

Bondage, golden showers, masochism, making love, tenderness, frequency of the need to be freaky  Good stuff and we were on the same page. 

Even with 3somes. We talked about them (on our 3rd date) and both realized while it's something we'd do for fun with friends or whatever, it's not something we'd do while committed to someone. Actually, my husband said "Two girls sounds ok...but...I don't know...would they have to talk?" :rofl: I knew I'd love this man. 

Fantasies are fine, but sometimes I think people think they have to always be soooo honest with their mate about this stuff. Holy crap. Why tell your mate a fantasy that could completely destroy their trust/respect for you? I see that as being destructive. Do people really just have a sexual fantasy that eats at them day and night to where they have to spill it? I'm seriously asking. 

Maybe I don't understand because I've done all of my fantasies...well, almost. Hubs and I haven't done a couple, but they only include us and funny, we had the same fantasies


----------



## that_girl

Deejo said:


> The important role fantasy plays is being a conduit for communication and sharing. Whether or not you actually perform or fulfill the fantasy (particularly if discussing turning your sessions from a duo to a trio or more ...)
> 
> Feeling safe about discussing intimate fantasies builds connection ... and is usually the springboard for some pretty passionate sex, with or without said fantasy applied.


I agree with this, however, I think people need to talk about this stuff WAAYYY before they are in a committed relationship and unhappy with their sexlives.

We talk about everything else while dating....but for some reason, we leave out sex, which is HUGE in relationships. I don't get it. I always laid it on the table. lol. The conversation would always be good but I wasn't a sl*t who slept again. I was just open with my sexuality. I don't see the big deal.


----------



## LimboGirl

that_girl said:


> I don't understand why people didn't get their fantasies out of their head (either in real life or just let them go) BEFORE marrying someone whom they knew wouldn't be into their fantasy.
> 
> I'm sure those who want to have sex with other people as a "fantasy" didn't just wake up one morning and think, "Gee, a 3some sounds awesome!"
> 
> Wasn't this what college was for??


Maybe we are talking about two different things. I think sex is different for everyone. For me, I have all kinds of fantasies that run in my head during sex. Maybe everyone else doesn't. Sex would not work for me if I didn't. This doesn't mean I'm not into my husband. It's hard to explain and has nothing to do with the male/female sex drive, but for me if I couldn't have my fantasies sex would be less interesting.


----------



## aston

that_girl said:


> Also, people just don't talk about sex. Period.
> 
> 
> Fantasies are fine, but sometimes I think people think they have to always be soooo honest with their mate about this stuff. Holy crap. Why tell your mate a fantasy that could completely destroy their trust/respect for you? I see that as being destructive. Do people really just have a sexual fantasy that eats at them day and night to where they have to spill it? I'm seriously asking.
> 
> Maybe I don't understand because I've done all of my fantasies...well, almost. Hubs and I haven't done a couple, but they only include us and funny, we had the same fantasies


That_Girl, I don't think a person who loves you deeply enough will lose respect for you or distrust you for sharing your deepest darkest fantasies wiht them. If anything it shows the person how not only committed you are to him/her but how far you're willing to go in opening up to him/her.


----------



## that_girl

LimboGirl said:


> Maybe we are talking about two different things. I think sex is different for everyone. For me, I have all kinds of fantasies that run in my head during sex. Maybe everyone else doesn't. Sex would not work for me if I didn't. This doesn't mean I'm not into my husband. It's hard to explain and has nothing to do with the male/female sex drive, but for me if I couldn't have my fantasies sex would be less interesting.


Oh, I getcha  I have little "movies" that play in my head, but they all have to do with my husband.

My favorite is having someone watch us. I told Hubs this and we named the guy "Juan" :rofl: He's just in our imagination but sometimes I'll say, "Oh, I think Juan is coming over tonight" LOL We're dorks.


----------



## LimboGirl

that_girl said:


> Also, people just don't talk about sex. Period.
> 
> For my husband and I, this was a topic of conversation on the 3rd date...and we hadn't even had sex yet
> 
> Bondage, golden showers, masochism, making love, tenderness, frequency of the need to be freaky  Good stuff and we were on the same page.
> 
> Even with 3somes. We talked about them (on our 3rd date) and both realized while it's something we'd do for fun with friends or whatever, it's not something we'd do while committed to someone. Actually, my husband said "Two girls sounds ok...but...I don't know...would they have to talk?" :rofl: I knew I'd love this man.
> 
> Fantasies are fine, but sometimes I think people think they have to always be soooo honest with their mate about this stuff. Holy crap. Why tell your mate a fantasy that could completely destroy their trust/respect for you? I see that as being destructive. Do people really just have a sexual fantasy that eats at them day and night to where they have to spill it? I'm seriously asking.
> 
> Maybe I don't understand because I've done all of my fantasies...well, almost. Hubs and I haven't done a couple, but they only include us and funny, we had the same fantasies


I think this is because of sexual hangups. I would not talk about sex on my third date. Not because there is anything wrong with it. For some weird reason, I would find it easier to have sex on my third date then talk about it.


----------



## that_girl

aston said:


> That_Girl, I don't think a person who loves you deeply enough will lose respect for you or distrust you for sharing your deepest darkest fantasies wiht them. If anything it shows the person how not only committed you are to him/her but how far you're willing to go in opening up to him/her.


That depends.

If my husband's deepest fantasy was to eff another woman while I watched, in hopes that he could actually do this someday (as some people push their mate to consider it) I would not feel close to him. In fact, I would wonder why he gave up being single. I wouldn't judge him for wanting to do this fantasy, but he and I agreed on monogamy 100% when we married (it's in our vows) so...this would be hard for me.

He may have these fantasies but he has the decency not to tell me. I simply don't want to know. Life's hard enough, no? I don't have fantasies of other men but that's just me.


----------



## LimboGirl

that_girl said:


> Oh, I getcha  I have little "movies" that play in my head, but they all have to do with my husband.
> 
> My favorite is having someone watch us. I told Hubs this and we named the guy "Juan" :rofl: He's just in our imagination but sometimes I'll say, "Oh, I think Juan is coming over tonight" LOL We're dorks.


I don't think you're dorks. Your open with each other. This is what I'm aiming for.


----------



## that_girl

LimboGirl said:


> I think this is because of sexual hangups. I would not talk about sex on my third date. Not because there is anything wrong with it. For some weird reason, I would find it easier to have sex on my third date then talk about it.


But then you haven't communicated what you like, want, etc and then that conversation won't come up most likely beacuse instead of talking about it, you'll be doing it and maybe end up unhappy.

I have been in relationships with men who suck in bed. Very vanilla which I am not. So I started doing this and it worked out wonderfully. Sometimes it even led to the end of a date (on the 3rd date) because he or I weren't into the things they were into. Why waste our time? Sex is HUGE in a relationship (just look at all these posts about unhappy people with sex)...


----------



## that_girl

LimboGirl said:


> I don't think you're dorks. Your open with each other. This is what I'm aiming for.


But that's why I'm saying people should talk about sex more as if it's really no big deal. Then you WON'T be closed up. 

I don't know if hubs shares everything with me. lol. I don't care either way. We can't be spewing everything we think about. Our sex life is good so that's all we care about. However, it started with that conversation on date 3. We both LOVE bondage so that was fun


----------



## LimboGirl

Do guys want to know their wives deepest and darkest fantasies? I have always worried that I would be judged. We both come from sexually repressed parents.


----------



## aston

that_girl said:


> That depends.
> 
> If my husband's deepest fantasy was to eff another woman while I watched, in hopes that he could actually do this someday (as some people push their mate to consider it) I would not feel close to him. In fact, I would wonder why he gave up being single. I wouldn't judge him for wanting to do this fantasy, but he and I agreed on monogamy 100% when we married (it's in our vows) so...this would be hard for me.
> 
> He may have these fantasies but he has the decency not to tell me. I simply don't want to know. Life's hard enough, no? I don't have fantasies of other men but that's just me.


If my partner has fantasies about another person and tells me then that may make for some good role playing. The way I see it is this.....when a guy thinks about a 3way with two gals it's somewhat more "accepted", but when a woman thinks or talks about a 3 way with anyhing other than another gal it's seen aomewhat "differently". Those are things I would like to know....


----------



## that_girl

LimboGirl said:


> Do guys want to know their wives deepest and darkest fantasies? I have always worried that I would be judged. We both come from sexually repressed parents.


It's so different for every person.

It's not "guys"...it's YOUR guy.

My friend's husband is very jealous. Omg. Not in a scary way but he has issues they are working through in therapy but his jealousy is bad.

Should she tell him her fantasies if they have to do with another person? HOLY CRAP NO. It will just run in his mind and it would make him worse.

My point is, you know your husband...you know if he'd want to hear things. 

I have one that I shared with Hubs just last week. He smiled and said he'd think about it. It was just for us, but it's somewhat off the wall. He's still thinking about it and he said he thinks it's crazy that I sexually stumped him. LOL At least he hasn't said no.


----------



## Arnold

LimboGirl said:


> I don't think you're dorks. Your open with each other. This is what I'm aiming for.


Poor Juan


----------



## aston

LimboGirl said:


> Do guys want to know their wives deepest and darkest fantasies? I have always worried that I would be judged. We both come from sexually repressed parents.


See...I grew up in Europe and never had any sexual repression around me. It was (and still is) normal for people to express themselves sexually and not only be open but also receptive to new ideas within relationships. So yes I would like to know whats going through that head of yours. Afterall my attraction to you was also sexual....so yes I wanna know.


----------



## that_girl

aston said:


> If my partner has fantasies about another person and tells me then that may make for some good role playing. The way I see it is this.....when a guy thinks about a 3way with two gals it's somewhat more "accepted", but when a woman thinks or talks about a 3 way with anyhing other than another gal it's seen aomewhat "differently". Those are things I would like to know....


A 3way is a 3way to me. No matter who it is. I wouldn't want to be with a man or woman other than Hubs.

Role playing is fun! Turning fantasies like this into reality would NOT be good for my marriage. It's different for everyone.


----------



## aston

that_girl said:


> A 3way is a 3way to me. No matter who it is. I wouldn't want to be with a man or woman other than Hubs.
> 
> Role playing is fun! Turning fantasies like this into reality would NOT be good for my marriage. It's different for everyone.


it definitely is different for everyone, thats why certain boundaries need to be set at the very beginning of relationships.
My issue with this arguement is purely based on expectations that have been warped when it comes to the early parts of relationships. The guy is supposed to let the woman always have her way and set the rules etc (most guys never speak up on what they really want..especially in the sex department). The woman blissfully sets the rules and everything is honky dory. They get married and years in all the red flags start going up. Suddenly the guy starts manifesting things and he seems like a totally different person. You know the rest....


----------



## LimboGirl

aston said:


> If my partner has fantasies about another person and tells me then that may make for some good role playing. The way I see it is this.....when a guy thinks about a 3way with two gals it's somewhat more "accepted", but when a woman thinks or talks about a 3 way with anyhing other than another gal it's seen aomewhat "differently". Those are things I would like to know....


Are you asking why it is more acceptable for it to be with two women?


----------



## aston

LimboGirl said:


> Are you asking why it is more acceptable for it to be with two women?


Im not asking about the acceptability, I was making a point regarding the double standard in-that IF you told your hubby you wanted a 3way with another woman you migh be received differently than if you wanted it with another man involved. Which creates the issue of what kinds of fantasies if any should be shared. I'm very sure a man won't lose respect for you if you wanted a 3 way with another woman (any man who says they don't want this is either a good liar or they have their woman well fooled in that dept.). However if you wanted it with multiple men, he might throw the self respect thing in your face.


----------



## that_girl

aston said:


> it definitely is different for everyone, thats why certain boundaries need to be set at the very beginning of relationships.
> My issue with this arguement is purely based on expectations that have been warped when it comes to the early parts of relationships. The guy is supposed to let the woman always have her way and set the rules etc (most guys never speak up on what they really want..especially in the sex department). The woman blissfully sets the rules and everything is honky dory. They get married and years in all the red flags start going up. Suddenly the guy starts manifesting things and he seems like a totally different person. You know the rest....


This is why I always talked about sex by date 3. If the man couldn't talk about it, I wouldn't really date him anymore. Some men were TOO freaky for me which would lead us to not really dating anymore. lollll....it's hard to be too freaky for me, so kudos to them. 

People may think I'm crazy, but after a long relationship with a horrible lover, I swore I'd never fall into that trap again.


----------



## aston

that_girl said:


> This is why I always talked about sex by date 3. If the man couldn't talk about it, I wouldn't really date him anymore. Some men were TOO freaky for me which would lead us to not really dating anymore. lollll....it's hard to be too freaky for me, so kudos to them.
> 
> People may think I'm crazy, but after a long relationship with a horrible lover, I swore I'd never fall into that trap again.


Best route to take! If he can't talk about it by then, thats the first red flag ;-)..then it's off to red square commie! LOL


----------



## LimboGirl

aston said:


> Im not asking about the acceptability, I was making a point regarding the double standard in-that IF you told your hubby you wanted a 3way with another woman you migh be received differently than if you wanted it with another man involved. Which creates the issue of what kinds of fantasies if any should be shared. I'm very sure a man won't lose respect for you if you wanted a 3 way with another woman (any man who says they don't want this is either a good liar or they have their woman well fooled in that dept.). However if you wanted it with multiple men, he might throw the self respect thing in your face.


Would this be more about his own insecurities you think?


----------



## that_girl

aston said:


> Best route to take! If he can't talk about it by then, thats the first red flag ;-)..then it's off to red square commie! LOL


I've had some pretty interesting conversations, lemme tell ya  LOL! Hubs was my favorite though. I think we talked for about 3 hours on our sexual preferences and sex in general...


----------



## aston

LimboGirl said:


> Would this be more about his own insecurities you think?


Very much so....I think insecuritites are a part of it in addition to other factors between the parties involved. There might also be an element of homophobia since women are much more sexually fluid than men.
I have a friend who does 3 ways with her husband with women but whenever talk of bringing another guy into the mix comes up he throws up a wall! Doesn't help there's also a 10 yr age difference between them.


----------



## Arnold

LimboGirl said:


> Would this be more about his own insecurities you think?


I think I would be alright if Pee Wee Herman was invited(although rumor has it that "Pee Wee" is a misnomer)..


----------



## aston

that_girl said:


> I've had some pretty interesting conversations, lemme tell ya  LOL! Hubs was my favorite though. I think we talked for about 3 hours on our sexual preferences and sex in general...


If only people jsut pull the pretentious sticks out of their asses and have the conversation. We all know it's the big elephant in the room...especially on the third date. Afterall if there wasn't any attraction you won't come back for the third time right?


----------



## Arnold

that_girl said:


> I've had some pretty interesting conversations, lemme tell ya  LOL! Hubs was my favorite though. I think we talked for about 3 hours on our sexual preferences and sex in general...


Well, I talked for 3 hours and 1 minute to my cats.


----------



## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Well, I talked for 3 hours and 1 minute to my cats.


Wow. Your cats have a long attention span. Mine couldn't even play with a toy for more than 2 minutes! LOL


----------



## that_girl

aston said:


> If only people jsut pull the pretentious sticks out of their asses and have the conversation. We all know it's the big elephant in the room...especially on the third date. Afterall if there wasn't any attraction you won't come back for the third time right?


Yea. It amazes me what people won't talk about with other people who are potential life mates. :scratchhead: Mind boggling.


----------



## aston

that_girl said:


> Yea. It amazes me what people won't talk about with other people who are potential life mates. :scratchhead: Mind boggling.


it's very interesting you say that because a potential mate is someone you may consider spendign the rest of your natural life with. Think those desires and things you won't talk about won't come up at some point if you're together? LOL


----------



## that_girl

aston said:


> it's very interesting you say that because a potential mate is someone you may consider spendign the rest of your natural life with. Think those desires and things you won't talk about won't come up at some point if you're together? LOL


And by then, you may not like what you hear, or don't hear...but you're attached, so you try to make it work...blah blah.

Date 3 is a good time LOL. Easy to walk away.

Maybe sex isn't important to some people, but it was to me and so I sought out someone who felt the same and had a healthy, open outlook about sex. My husband and I just couldn't communicate our needs and wants in other areas, that's all. We're gettnig better with that though....however our sex life has never been bad which helps in the bad times.


----------



## AudrinaG

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I've heard this term more times than I care to count: "There are girls you bang and girls you marry". In my lifetime I have never heard a woman say that about a guy. Why is that? I'll tell you why. Because despite our "liberated" society, we still view women who enjoy sex as being less than in some way. I cannot understand it nor do I want to. A man who is a man [email protected] is a player. Not a derogatory term and lauded as being the "alpha" male. A woman on the other hand who acts the same way is a s!ut and sadly, it isn't just men saying that about her. Women say it time and time again.
> 
> So men want to marry the chaste woman. The woman you "bring home to Mom" yet fast forward a few years and they are here moaning that their wife is lacking in the bedroom. Guess what? They brought it all on themselves when they valued this puritanical bullsh!t over the person themself.
> 
> Knowing how society views sexually expressive women, is it any wonder why women have to "guard" their sexuality? Do you think a sexually repressed woman has a clue or cares about a man's sexuality? Yeah, no.


is there a way to just "thumbs up" posts? You go, therealbrighteyes!


----------



## Trenton

AudrinaG said:


> is there a way to just "thumbs up" posts? You go, therealbrighteyes!


I agree with both of you but let's not talk about that. Let's continue to talk about the needs and wants of men and how women can best satisfy them regardless of any topics or scenarios that apply to women.

Sex is like air to men after all...

I totally don't buy it and I'm in a regularly and consistently sexual relationship with the same man for 17 years total. In fact, I believe when I first came here with my complaints they were disregarded because sex was not an issue in my relationship. I sort of got the...you're having regular sex...so things must be going right deal. Really?

Uh OK. Whateverzzz.

I cringe to see the day where a one sided viewpoint in favor of one gender is the norm but we've been there before. I hope we don't go back.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

LimboGirl said:


> Not really. Some of it has been off subject. Even the things off subject have been interesting. I think another good thread would be how to present sexuality to our daughters. I think for a lot of people there is a double standard there.
> 
> Back on topic. Let me explain my reasons for starting the thread. I have always been guilty of thinking the sex problems were not as great a concern because in my mind he has creating so many problems that I felt unloved and used.
> 
> I am not in a sexless marriage. I'm in a low sex marriage that was even getting to the point of bothering me. I started looking at different viewpoints in the sexless marriage threads. I never realized how painful this is to a man or woman. I really want to take this problem out of our marriage. I thought the men could help me the most on this topic.


I think it is great you are asking these questions, I only WISH I did earlier in my marraige! So good for you & good for your husband ! :smthumbup:

I had a GF tell me on the phone one day, I shall never forget, her husband wanted sex one night, she told him "No" and he cried in front of her, and I was like "really !!, how could you do that to him!" and I asked her how she felt about that, and she just said she didn't feel like it. That's it. They average about once every 2 weeks. We had a long talk, I laid into her a bit but she listened, I guess she has tried a little more since then, but she admits she just lays there. I still feel bad for the man. 

This is a good christian man that has never mistreated her, he has been there for her, her best friend in life, she even goes on about their happy marraige on FB, so no mistreatment there whatsoever, just a typical marraige where the wife is not feeling it, doesn't care and the man is too nice and good to her to get his needs met, she knows he will never leave, he is too committed to his family. 

Sad, it happens. even to the Good Guys. He needs "NO More Mr Nice Guy", but I would feel a little awkward bringing that up to him. Of coarse.


----------



## Trenton

annagarret said:


> this was not an exaggeration at all! Or course I want to have sex with my husband and he wants to talk and give me emotional support, there is no double standard. I meant that I know deep down in his soul that his body and mind crave sexual intimacy with me on a regular, if not daily basis. This physical yearning can be intense and comparable to a daily need. He can go anywhere to get food and drink but he can only depend on me, his wife for sexual intimacy and I will not let him down.


And if he continually lets you down because he doesn't understand or prioritize your needs as is the case in so many marriages...?

It is not comparable to a daily need. It is comparable to a daily want.

If you exclude one gender through extremist thinking in favor of the opposite gender you are moving in the wrong direction.

I am not defending a wife not having sex with her husband or saying that all women understand a man's sex drive because I don't believe this to be the case but you're not talking to a woman who behaves differently than you. I do satisfy my husband's sexual desires. I just don't buy your extremist thinking and find it offensive as I do many posts on this thread. They are so lacking in empathy for women it's disturbing. Very much so.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Trenton said:


> It is not comparable to a daily need. It is comparable to a daily want.


How is that different than emotional support? You can certainly live without it for a day, can't you? Then why is it a need?

I will say it again - sex is a need for my marriage. Without it, my marriage begins to starve. Maybe not right away, but in time it will not survive. No different than the emotional support and communication that my wife and I need from each other.


----------



## LimboGirl

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think it is great you are asking these questions, I only WISH I did earlier in my marraige! So good for you & good for your husband ! :smthumbup:
> 
> I had a GF tell me on the phone one day, I shall never forget, her husband wanted sex one night, she told him "No" and he cried in front of her, and I was like "really !!, how could you do that to him!" and I asked her how she felt about that, and she just said she didn't feel like it. That's it. They average about once every 2 weeks. We had a long talk, I laid into her a bit but she listened, I guess she has tried a little more since then, but she admits she just lays there. I still feel bad for the man.
> 
> This is a good christian man that has never mistreated her, he has been there for her, her best friend in life, she even goes on about their happy marraige on FB, so no mistreatment there whatsoever, just a typical marraige where the wife is not feeling it, doesn't care and the man is too nice and good to her to get his needs met, she knows he will never leave, he is too committed to his family.
> 
> Sad, it happens. even to the Good Guys. He needs "NO More Mr Nice Guy", but I would feel a little awkward bringing that up to him. Of coarse.


I'm not asking these questions early in the marriage. We have been married for 22 years. I really did not get it until reading posts on this forum. That's not to say I reject him all the time. But from his viewpoint I probably do reject him a lot more than I know. I'm am trying to understand him in order to save my marriage. We have a lot of problems with communication. It is sad when problems take so long to address.


----------



## LimboGirl

Trenton said:


> And if he continually lets you down because he doesn't understand or prioritize your needs as is the case in so many marriages...?
> 
> It is not comparable to a daily need. It is comparable to a daily want.
> 
> If you exclude one gender through extremist thinking in favor of the opposite gender you are moving in the wrong direction.
> 
> I am not defending a wife not having sex with her husband or saying that all women understand a man's sex drive because I don't believe this to be the case but you're not talking to a woman who behaves differently than you. I do satisfy my husband's sexual desires. I just don't buy your extremist thinking and find it offensive as I do many posts on this thread. They are so lacking in empathy for women it's disturbing. Very much so.


You speak of something I worrying about myself. I don't want to cause my husband this pain. But I do not come first in his life. He recently admitted this in MC. He has been trying to change. Also, I don't want to use sex to try and make him change. I want him to agree to meet my needs. I am thinking that if I meet his needs and he still doesn't meet mine then I have my answer.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

LimboGirl said:


> You speak of something I worrying about myself. I don't want to cause my husband this pain. But I do not come first in his life. He recently admitted this in MC. He has been trying to change. Also, I don't want to use sex to try and make him change. I want him to agree to meet my needs. I am thinking that if I meet his needs and he still doesn't meet mine then I have my answer.


Based on the board postings, this is not an uncommon question. He is not meeting your needs and you are not meeting his, so who gives first. The typical advice is for the poster (in this case you) to "give in" first to break the stale-mate. In this case, working with your MC to get both of you to break it at the same time might be successful. I think you both need to willing to give the other the benefit of the doubt, as I am sure both of you will slip up from time to time. You can use MC to discuss the progress (or lack there of) and figure out if he really is giving it his best.


----------



## LimboGirl

Tall Average Guy said:


> Based on the board postings, this is not an uncommon question. He is not meeting your needs and you are not meeting his, so who gives first. The typical advice is for the poster (in this case you) to "give in" first to break the stale-mate. In this case, working with your MC to get both of you to break it at the same time might be successful. I think you both need to willing to give the other the benefit of the doubt, as I am sure both of you will slip up from time to time. You can use MC to discuss the progress (or lack there of) and figure out if he really is giving it his best.


Thanks for the advice. Oddly enough I think a real mess up on his part has provided us with a break though. He seems to be trying harder. On my part, I recently initiated sex with him. He even commented on how much he liked that. By the way I enjoyed myself too.:rofl: Use to do that a lot more.


----------



## Deejo

Trenton said:


> I just don't buy your extremist thinking and find it offensive as I do many posts on this thread. They are so lacking in empathy for women it's disturbing. Very much so.


Which is interesting in and of itself, because the original question didn't revolve around empathy for women. You chose to reframe the question, in addressing what is or isn't happening revolving around a man's sex drive. You inserted the MIS-understanding of female sexuality into the equation, and and are left wondering why everyone else hasn't done the same.



LimboGirl said:


> Thanks for the advice. Oddly enough I think a real mess up on his part has provided us with a break though. He seems to be trying harder. On my part, I recently initiated sex with him. He even commented on how much he liked that. By the way I enjoyed myself too.:rofl: Use to do that a lot more.


'Trying' being the operative word for both partners in a faltering relationship. Simply a matter of someone deciding to 'try' and the other partner following suit as a result. Next thing you know, you're stumbling towards happy.

I'd rather be happy than right ...


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> Which is interesting in and of itself, because the original question didn't revolve around empathy for women. You chose to reframe the question, in addressing what is or isn't happening revolving around a man's sex drive. You inserted the MIS-understanding of female sexuality into the equation, and and are left wondering why everyone else hasn't done the same.


You call it reframing, I call it looking at the bigger picture.


----------



## Trenton

Tall Average Guy said:


> How is that different than emotional support? You can certainly live without it for a day, can't you? Then why is it a need?
> 
> I will say it again - sex is a need for my marriage. Without it, my marriage begins to starve. Maybe not right away, but in time it will not survive. No different than the emotional support and communication that my wife and I need from each other.


Absolutely can live a day without it. I'd never say that emotional support is the equivalent of air for women...ever. When I brought up the term "need" it was only to make a point that if one gender has a specific need then the other must also and I was curious to see what that need would be for women. This is back in the single digits of this thread when we were talking hormones. I still think need is all together an exaggeration. 

Women find emotional support in other ways if their husbands do not meet their needs and even if their husband is meeting their needs they most likely still seek it elsewhere...friends, family, EA's, etc.

Just as men can meet their needs elsewhere for sex...porn, masturbation, PA's, etc.

My point is more that there needs to be balance between the man and wife and both must be 1. committed to one another and 2. meeting their basic wants within the relationship for that relationship to be strong. In other words, we have the capacity to understand one another if we want to.

It's not about lack of an understanding of a man's sex drive as much as it is failing to feel connected and wallowing in their own desires, needs and wants (for whatever reason) and so much so that they stop caring about the wants of their partner.

Like I said before, there are so many reasons for this that there's no way we can address each couple under an umbrella and expect simplified advice for complex situations will apply.


----------



## Trenton

LimboGirl said:


> You speak of something I worrying about myself. I don't want to cause my husband this pain. But I do not come first in his life. He recently admitted this in MC. He has been trying to change. Also, I don't want to use sex to try and make him change. I want him to agree to meet my needs. I am thinking that if I meet his needs and he still doesn't meet mine then I have my answer.


Perfect example of how it's not a lack of understanding needs, wants and sex drive, but rather a misunderstanding about the behaviors and choices that lead to typical scenarios in marriages that are in trouble.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Trenton said:


> You call it reframing, I call it looking at the bigger picture.


Trenton, start a thread on it -here in the Men's section -- about this "*empathy for women*", get the word out there as you FEEL IT -seriously. 

I would say I DO very much sympathize with such needs, to say I didn't , or play them down, would make me an H of a hypocrite, cause I KNOW how important those are TO ME. I couldn't live (and be happy) without them. 

Express yourself in a new thread.


----------



## Trenton

SimplyAmorous said:


> Trenton, start a thread on it -here in the Men's section -- about this "*empathy for women*", get the word out there as you FEEL IT -seriously.
> 
> I would say I DO very much sympathize with such needs, to say I didn't , or play them down, would make me an H of a hypocrite, cause I KNOW how important those are TO ME. I couldn't live (and be happy) without them.
> 
> Express yourself in a new thread.


Awwww come on, can't we just slowly turn this one over? :rofl:


----------



## Deejo

Trenton said:


> Awwww come on, can't we just slowly turn this one over? :rofl:


We ... we ... we ... that's all I ever hear from you.


----------



## Arnold

Well, here is what I do not understand: if women need an emotional connection to have sex, why did my friends and I get so many offers for BJs, intercourse etc from women we barely knew? Why did my boss( a woman) want to blow me? Why did I get notes slipped under my dorm room door, asking if I wanted to ****? Why did the 6 women I lived in a house with in college talk about ****ing guys brains out, that they barely knew?
Why did one woman come to my door and just ask to ****? She saw me walking and followed me.


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> We ... we ... we ... that's all I ever hear from you.


I am fluent in French but poor with spelling?

Maybe it's because I work in non-profits? Every speech, writing and thought is in the collective. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. OR maybe I'm far too connected to a bunch of internet peoples who never quite seem to understand me? Nah.

My English teacher once told me that every time he read my work he was sure I was trying to say something important but had no idea what it was. Yeah that about sums me up.

What's your excuse for all your damn individualism anyway?


----------



## Trenton

Arnold said:


> Well, here is what I do not understand: if women need an emotional connection to have sex, why did my friends and I get so many offers for BJs, intercourse etc from women we barely knew? Why did my boss( a woman) want to blow me? Why did I get notes slipped under my dorm room door, asking if I wanted to ****? Why did the 6 women I lived in a house with in college talk about ****ing guys brains out, that they barely knew?
> Why did one woman come to my door and just ask to ****? She saw me walking and followed me.


Because they think it's where their power is?


----------



## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Well, here is what I do not understand: if women need an emotional connection to have sex, why did my friends and I get so many offers for BJs, intercourse etc from women we barely knew? Why did my boss( a woman) want to blow me? Why did I get notes slipped under my dorm room door, asking if I wanted to ****? Why did the 6 women I lived in a house with in college talk about ****ing guys brains out, that they barely knew?
> Why did one woman come to my door and just ask to ****? She saw me walking and followed me.


Good question. I never knew any women like this. 

I think sometimes, though, some women do it for guys to like them. I am not sure. I've had sex with friends, without commitment and I definitely came on to a few of them...but it was because we were close, just not in love.

Good question though. Just like with every rule, there are many exceptions. Some people (male and female) are just into sleeping around. Oh well.

but godam! You must be one fine specimen.  LOL


----------



## Arnold

I was high average, at best. I just think many women have no idea how often women come on like this to guys. Maybe they do not talk about it. I mean this happened all the time , back when I was in shape and younger. So, I am sure it was visual, not related to my personality, which, as you can see, is lacking. One of my roomates in law school was modeling for art classes, his physique was so extraordinary. He was a complete psycho/somatic narcissisist(but, I liked him and he was a good guy in some ways). If this guy took his shirt off, he was approached countless times. Clearly, the women approaching him are not driven by emotions.
Same with my 22 year old son. He is a classic bad boy, actually, a jerk at this point. Women love him, as he is very good looking and hung like a horse.


----------



## that_girl

Oh I'm sure it does happen. I just wasn't like that, and neither were my friends.

However...I had fun with my friends


----------



## Trenton

Arnold said:


> I was high average, at best. I just think many women have no idea how often women come on like this to guys. Maybe they do not talk about it. I mean this happened all the time , back when I was in shape and younger. So, I am sure it was visual, not related to my personality, which, as you can see, is lacking. One of my roomates in law school was modeling for art classes, his physique was so extraordinary. He was a complete psycho/somatic narcissisist(but, I liked him and he was a good guy in some ways). If this guy took his shirt off, he was approached countless times. Clearly, the women approaching him are not driven by emotions.
> Same with my 22 year old son. He is a classic bad boy, actually, a jerk at this point. Women love him, as he is very good looking and hung like a horse.


I find you entertaining. I don't find your text to be lacking personality at all although I find it disturbing that you know your son is hung like a horse.


----------



## Arnold

Well, heck, he is my kid, right?


----------



## FirstYearDown

Deejo said:


> All I want to convey is that the male sex drive is extraordinarily powerful. It can bring out their best in terms of tenderness, honor and nobility, or their absolute worst in terms of selfishness, power and aggression.


:iagree::iagree:

Before I met my husband, all I experienced was the selfishness and aggression from men. 

I turned into a heartbreaking ball buster who had too much empty sex and loved hurting men the way they hurt me.

My husband met me just as I was taking a break from dating. I didn't want to let him in my heart because I was scared, but he was so patient and loving. I saw the tenderness in the way he never pressured me for sex and brought me flowers when I was ready to allow him to make love to me.


----------



## Arnold

FirstYearDown said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> Before I met my husband, all I experienced was the selfishness and aggression from men.
> 
> I turned into a heartbreaking ball buster who had too much empty sex and loved hurting men the way they hurt me.
> 
> My husband met me just as I was taking a break from dating. I didn't want to let him in my heart because I was scared, but he was so patient and loving. I saw the tenderness in the way he never pressured me for sex and brought me flowers when I was ready to allow him to make love to me.


And what did you buy him?


----------



## FirstYearDown

Kobo said:


> You do that you're playing into the stereotype that most guys just come to bed and say "wanna do it". We could also play into the stereo type that most women miss a guys attempt to connect throughout the day because they're so focused on trying to complete a list that will never be completed. My opinion is until both partners decide that we come first before all these distractions in our lives it's going to be hit and miss.


In a healthy and happy marriage, there is room for the spouses to aggressively pounce on each other, using words like "wanna do it" or the like. :smthumbup:

We enjoy romantic lovemaking and we also love animalistic f**king. Last weekend, my husband came home after running some errands. The man threw down his bags, grabbed me and growled: "We're going to bed." :yay::yay::yay: I happily obliged.

Every sexual encounter does not need to be about wine and roses. That would be boring.


----------



## Arnold

Man, that grocery shopping wore him out. How did you sleep?


----------



## Sawney Beane

Deejo said:


> I'd rather be happy than right ...


This makes you very unusual - far more people want to be right, and will drag themselves and their partner down with them to prove they were right. Which is why the advice to be the person who makes the first move is so unpopular, despite is being "right".


----------



## Halien

Sawney Beane said:


> This makes you very unusual - far more people want to be right, and will drag themselves and their partner down with them to prove they were right. Which is why the advice to be the person who makes the first move is so unpopular, despite is being "right".


Sawney,
Always a lot of wisdom in just a few words in your posts. I realized this within myself, and it dawned on me that I could win sometimes, while the marriage loses. I changed my whole outlook on being right and my wife noticed immediately. Man, I was stubborn.

One thing that I have found is that the willingness to defer when its important is just as powerful sex wise as being dominant at the right times. Both lead to the crazy monkey sex.


----------



## Kobo

Sawney Beane said:


> This makes you very unusual - far more people want to be right, and will drag themselves and their partner down with them to prove they were right. Which is why the advice to be the person who makes the first move is so unpopular, despite is being "right".



Funny, Last night I could have had one of those moments. My wife's mom sent my daughter some money for her birthday. Its a good amount of money so when she told me it was coming we talked about not spending all of it and putting some of it into her account. Well my wife tells me that they spent 75% shopping at the mall. I'm thinking but we were going to put some away. I say this, my wife says we have the 25% to put away. I laugh and instead of trying to win with my position of teaching money skills just think to my self: "Next time we'll have to come up with the specific amount we put in the bank".


----------



## Kobo

Trenton said:


> And if he continually lets you down because he doesn't understand or prioritize your needs as is the case in so many marriages...?
> 
> It is not comparable to a daily need. It is comparable to a daily want.
> 
> If you exclude one gender through extremist thinking in favor of the opposite gender you are moving in the wrong direction.
> 
> I am not defending a wife not having sex with her husband or saying that all women understand a man's sex drive because I don't believe this to be the case but you're not talking to a woman who behaves differently than you. I do satisfy my husband's sexual desires. I just don't buy your extremist thinking and find it offensive as I do many posts on this thread. They are so lacking in empathy for women it's disturbing. Very much so.


Well I guess we know your husband's answer to the question


----------



## Deejo

Trenton said:


> What's your excuse for all your damn individualism anyway?


Can't have a happy 'We', without a strong, balanced, healthy, 'Me'.

Gave up Me for the We. Most Nice Guys do. Doesn't work. So what you see as selfish individualism is actually little more than learning to rebalance the We equation and bring it back into alignment.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Trenton said:


> Absolutely can live a day without it. I'd never say that emotional support is the equivalent of air for women...ever. When I brought up the term "need" it was only to make a point that if one gender has a specific need then the other must also and I was curious to see what that need would be for women. This is back in the single digits of this thread when we were talking hormones. I still think need is all together an exaggeration.
> 
> Women find emotional support in other ways if their husbands do not meet their needs and even if their husband is meeting their needs they most likely still seek it elsewhere...friends, family, EA's, etc.
> 
> Just as men can meet their needs elsewhere for sex...porn, masturbation, PA's, etc.
> 
> My point is more that there needs to be balance between the man and wife and both must be 1. committed to one another and 2. meeting their basic wants within the relationship for that relationship to be strong. In other words, we have the capacity to understand one another if we want to.
> 
> It's not about lack of an understanding of a man's sex drive as much as it is failing to feel connected and wallowing in their own desires, needs and wants (for whatever reason) and so much so that they stop caring about the wants of their partner.
> 
> Like I said before, there are so many reasons for this that there's no way we can address each couple under an umbrella and expect simplified advice for complex situations will apply.



Then let's reframe it as I did, which is in the context of marriage? Is sex a need for a marriage? Is emotional support? For the most part, yes, at least for me. It both parties can provide it, and they don't, then the marriage starves. For many men, including myself, sex is part of how I express my love and how I receive it. It is how I connect with my wife. Thus, I need sex in my marriage. You discuss connecting in a relationship, but then seem to define it in such as way as how you make a connection, that is, through an emotional connection. Fine, that works for you, but not for everyone. For many men, as seen by the countless threads here, sex is a critical part of that connection. The fact that these posters can't articulate it in a manner deamed worthy does not make it less so. 

Nothing you have posted above is objectionable, and I agree with much of it. My issue is with the implicit characterization of sex as a mere base want, as an extra, as a desire that is not needed for a marriage and is secondary and separate to any emotional and intellectual connection. It is not necessary to have that connection to have sex, but sex is often necessary to create and maintain that connection.


----------



## Deejo

Sawney Beane said:


> This makes you very unusual - far more people want to be right, and will drag themselves and their partner down with them to prove they were right. Which is why the advice to be the person who makes the first move is so unpopular, despite is being "right".


Never had a problem with making the first move, or going first to fix the problem. Issue became ... that was what she expected, to the exclusion of her having to take any action or make any choices. "He'll make it right."

And in the doing, made myself irrelevant.

I'm not stubborn. I just look that way on the internet.

This actually segues into the whole sex drive piece (for me) as well.
Wanted a 'happy' partner when it came to sex. Ladies first was always my operative mode. When happy and satisfied left the field for whatever reason, I didn't quite know what to do with my sex drive, that was when it moved into score-keeping or reward mode. Or in her eyes, a bothersome chore, rather than an opportunity to share and grow. Never a good place to be.


----------



## Trenton

*grumble* *grumble* Maybe because you see what you want to see and delete the rest?


----------



## LimboGirl

Just wanted to let everyone know how this thread has affected me. When reading the threads from SockPuppet, Tacoma, Trying2FigureItOut, and Deejo; I came to realize more what sex meant to my husband. This was a new perspective for me. I admit that I have always been resentful because of his neglect and refusal to communicate. I thought long and hard about how these things are a circle. We each cause the other to retreat and inflict pain.

So my decision. Last night I stated some of the things that you said sex meant to you. I said I didn't know if this applied to him or not. I said I realized I had caused him great pain and for that I was sorry. We then made love. And that was what it was. Hasn't been that way in years.

What I didn't say. I made no promises. While I will keep what I have learned in mind, I feel like it is too soon to make promises.

Trenton, while I emotionally have felt resentful. I decided to try and break some of our destructive patterns. Do I think this will cause him to make the changes he needs to make? I don't know. I can't do this for the reason of trying to control him. When I made the decision to do this I decided to just take the sex problems out of the equation. I'm working on what my boundaries are right now. If he decides to respect my boundaries and bottom line in the end this marriage will work. If he decides not to,then I don't feel like I will have lost anything. I'm doing this because I have nothing to lose. I'm doing this for me. If my marriage fails, I will have tried everything in my power. I will walk away with my head high.

Thank you to everyone for this thread.


----------



## Trenton

michzz said:


> I just couldn't make it through the whole thread without humor.
> 
> OK, serious hat on.
> 
> Testosterone makes desire of a certain kind, estrogen/progesterone make desire of another sort.
> 
> Result, species continues to reproduce.
> 
> Since we overthink everything, a lot of nonsense gets introduced.
> 
> Our social constructs make us want to make sense of the mating rituals that hold us captive.


Do you think will or mental capacity can supersede hormonal makeup?


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## Deejo

Hard not to admire someone putting them self out there.

Your husband is a very fortunate man. Hope he realizes that too, and does right by his wife.



LimboGirl said:


> Just wanted to let everyone know how this thread has affected me. When reading the threads from SockPuppet, Tacoma, Trying2FigureItOut, and Deejo; I came to realize more what sex meant to my husband. This was a new perspective for me. I admit that I have always been resentful because of his neglect and refusal to communicate. I thought long and hard about how these things are a circle. We each cause the other to retreat and inflict pain.
> 
> So my decision. Last night I stated some of the things that you said sex meant to you. I said I didn't know if this applied to him or not. I said I realized I had caused him great pain and for that I was sorry. We then made love. And that was what it was. Hasn't been that way in years.
> 
> What I didn't say. I made no promises. While I will keep what I have learned in mind, I feel like it is too soon to make promises.
> 
> Trenton, while I emotionally have felt resentful. I decided to try and break some of our destructive patterns. Do I think this will cause him to make the changes he needs to make? I don't know. I can't do this for the reason of trying to control him. When I made the decision to do this I decided to just take the sex problems out of the equation. I'm working on what my boundaries are right now. If he decides to respect my boundaries and bottom line in the end this marriage will work. If he decides not to,then I don't feel like I will have lost anything. I'm doing this because I have nothing to lose. I'm doing this for me. If my marriage fails, I will have tried everything in my power. I will walk away with my head high.
> 
> Thank you to everyone for this thread.


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## Sawney Beane

Halien said:


> Sawney,
> Always a lot of wisdom in just a few words in your posts. I realized this within myself, and it dawned on me that I could win sometimes, while the marriage loses. I changed my whole outlook on being right and my wife noticed immediately. Man, I was stubborn.
> 
> One thing that I have found is that the willingness to defer when its important is just as powerful sex wise as being dominant at the right times. Both lead to the crazy monkey sex.


Thanks. Almost nobody seems to get that arguing with your spouse isn't even as good as a zero-sum game: if you win, the other partner loses, and everyone suffers.

If more people could get this, I think it'd be a lot quieter around here. Anyway, if you want a fight, you go down the pub - it's what it's there for:rofl:


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## LimboGirl

Thank you Deejo. TAM has been very good for me.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Trenton said:


> Do you think will or mental capacity can supersede hormonal makeup?


I used to until I came here.


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## Sawney Beane

Deejo said:


> Never had a problem with making the first move, or going first to fix the problem. Issue became ... that was what she expected, to the exclusion of her having to take any action or make any choices. "He'll make it right."
> 
> And in the doing, made myself irrelevant.


Ouch. This is a different problem to chosing to be right rather than happy, I would say. It sounds more like the "victim / rescuer" bit in the drama triangle. Bad luck



> I'm not stubborn. I just look that way on the internet.


Is *that* the image you were trying to convey? I get it now - I think!



> This actually segues into the whole sex drive piece (for me) as well.
> Wanted a 'happy' partner when it came to sex. Ladies first was always my operative mode. When happy and satisfied left the field for whatever reason, I didn't quite know what to do with my sex drive, that was when it moved into score-keeping or reward mode. Or in her eyes, a bothersome chore, rather than an opportunity to share and grow. Never a good place to be.


I'm not sure I'm following you here - are you saying that by being "attentive" and doing the ladies first thing your partner say sex as a chore, not something to invest effort in?


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## Deejo

Sawney Beane said:


> Ouch. This is a different problem to chosing to be right rather than happy, I would say. It sounds more like the "victim / rescuer" bit in the drama triangle. Bad luck


Didn't start there ... but that is certainly where the end began. I facilitated it because I could ... for a very long time, and truth was, I was happy in the doing.




> Is *that* the image you were trying to convey? I get it now - I think!


Recovering 'Nice Guy'. I don't have the all the answers, but I have plenty of experience and background in the issues that can result.




> I'm not sure I'm following you here - are you saying that by being "attentive" and doing the ladies first thing your partner say sex as a chore, not something to invest effort in?


I'm saying by never stressing that sex was important or a priority, or a shared responsibility, that I ended up like a kid asking his mother for a cookie, to which she would reply "Have you been a good boy?", "Did you do your chores?"
It became something that I felt compelled to ask for, and as a result of the dynamic, she felt compelled to reject.

Hope that makes sense. Because when you think about it, it makes no sense at all.


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## Kobo

Trenton said:


> Do you think will or mental capacity can supersede hormonal makeup?


Why do we need to in this case?


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## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I used to until I came here.


Yet you keep coming back...


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## Sawney Beane

Deejo said:


> I'm saying by never stressing that sex was important or a priority, or a shared responsibility, that I ended up like a kid asking his mother for a cookie, to which she would reply "Have you been a good boy?", "Did you do your chores?"
> It became something that I felt compelled to ask for, and as a result of the dynamic, she felt compelled to reject.
> 
> Hope that makes sense. Because when you think about it, it makes no sense at all.


Much clearer, thanks. By taking the responsibility for making sex good, you removed all responsibility from your partner. I think whether you call it a priority or a responsibility is less important than the fact that whatever it is it has to be "shared". If one partner doesn't feel they have any responsibility to put any effort in, that's a fast step down sh1t street.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> Yet you keep coming back...


It's getting to the point of a slow motion car wreck. I'm weaning myself from looking at this point.


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## Trenton

Kobo said:


> Why do we need to in this case?


If you can't get women to understand it you're going to need something to get you through, no?


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## Kobo

Trenton said:


> If you can't get women to understand it you're going to need something to get you through, no?


Or find a woman that understands or better doesn't need to understand it but just want to satisfy the man she loves.


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## Runs like Dog

At least she interested in discovering whether that's a valid question at all. It's one thing to force feed self help mumbo jumbo into people it's quite another that they even consider that it's something to consider in the first place.


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## Arnold

Sawney Beane said:


> Thanks. Almost nobody seems to get that arguing with your spouse isn't even as good as a zero-sum game: if you win, the other partner loses, and everyone suffers.
> 
> If more people could get this, I think it'd be a lot quieter around here. Anyway, if you want a fight, you go down the pub - it's what it's there for:rofl:


Isn't constantly capitulating to one's wife, uh, sorta un-alpha. 
This leading, alpha, capitulating, stuff is very confusing.
Is there any chance that one can simply be who they are and still have somoen loyal to him?


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## okeydokie

Arnold said:


> Isn't constantly capitulating to one's wife, uh, sorta un-alpha.
> This leading, alpha, capitulating, stuff is very confusing.
> Is there any chance that one can simply be who they are and still have somoen loyal to him?


ya see, no matter who you are, she will want something else. the target is ever moving


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## Kobo

Arnold said:


> Isn't constantly capitulating to one's wife, uh, sorta un-alpha.
> This leading, alpha, capitulating, stuff is very confusing.
> Is there any chance that one can simply be who they are and still have somoen loyal to him?


Stop trying to be a term "alpha" and learn the principles behind it. Being "alpha" and "manning up" has been twisted.


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## Halien

Arnold said:


> Isn't constantly capitulating to one's wife, uh, sorta un-alpha.
> This leading, alpha, capitulating, stuff is very confusing.
> Is there any chance that one can simply be who they are and still have somoen loyal to him?


So, it seems that your definition of 'alpha' must be 'not very smart'? Just kidding, but your last question is very critical to some of the things you ask. What if you are so confident in yourself as a man that you never ask what it takes to be more alpha? Alpha (in the context that it is used on this site) is an eagerness to improve yourself, but using your own roadmap. Its not about a formula or plan that you follow. Its more about being obsessive about results - not getting a pat on the back for your part in leading your partner to those results, but just getting them. Too many people focus on the traits, gaming, etc, but I contend that an alpha is one who is addicted to results. Clearly, sometimes you get results from leading, but sometimes, when the results are towards a happy marriage, it means supporting your partner in their growth.


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## Arnold

Don't beta get results, as well. In fact, it seems that in the long run, betas , often, get better results.


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## Arnold

Kobo said:


> Stop trying to be a term "alpha" and learn the principles behind it. Being "alpha" and "manning up" has been twisted.


I think I may just be so alpha that I don't care to learn the princiiples. I suspect they are patterned after my life.


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## Sawney Beane

Arnold said:


> Isn't constantly capitulating to one's wife, uh, sorta un-alpha.
> This leading, alpha, capitulating, stuff is very confusing.
> Is there any chance that one can simply be who they are and still have somoen loyal to him?


You're missing the point. It's all to do with not p1ssing away everyone's time, energy and goodwill trying to prove you're "right" all the time, just to make a point. Because the point you make is "I'm prepared to make everyone unhappy to get my own way".

And it's got f*ck-all to do with capitulating to anyone. If you're wrong, stop arguing. All you do is reinforce the fact that you're a f*ckwit.


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## Kobo

Halien said:


> So, it seems that your definition of 'alpha' must be 'not very smart'? Just kidding, but your last question is very critical to some of the things you ask. What if you are so confident in yourself as a man that you never ask what it takes to be more alpha? Alpha (in the context that it is used on this site) is an eagerness to improve yourself, but using your own roadmap. Its not about a formula or plan that you follow. Its more about being obsessive about results - not getting a pat on the back for your part in leading your partner to those results, but just getting them. Too many people focus on the traits, gaming, etc, but I contend that an alpha is one who is addicted to results. Clearly, sometimes you get results from leading, but sometimes, when the results are towards a happy marriage, it means supporting your partner in their growth.


I disagree with focusing on results. You should be who you are no matter the results (boundaries, NUTS, etc.). You have two salesmen with the same quota. One lies and bends the truth to get his numbers looking right. One plays by the rules and doesn't get his numbers. Would you consider the liar the dominant man? I think if we allow ourselves to be driven by a specific result that we can get ourselves into compromising positions. If we desire to be a honest, respected, hard working, loving, man we will strive for those things and in the end be rewarded with the results we desire.


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## committed_guy

SockPuppet said:


> Reading the newer posts over last few days, and I have a question... well, a couple.
> 
> Do you think your Wife/SO truly understands the male sex drive?
> ...
> Do you think women in general want to understand, or think they truly understand male sexuality?


Not in the least bit. I love my DW to bits but she has no understanding and doesn't desire to understand that sex for me is a need in this relationship. She only views intimacy from her side which is something nice and fun but not required. To her emotional non-sexual intimacy is a requirement. She says in order for her to permit sex she has to feel loved. She has gone weeks where she says she feels so loved by me but still refuses sex. 

We are made differently on purpose. I have to learn to give her something I don't naturally want to do, and likewise her to me. We need to learn to make each other feel loved. To love someone is to love them on their terms. I meet my wife's emotional needs, she tells me so but still due to her medication she has no desire for sex. Because she doesn't want it we don't do it. She doesn't understand my need because she doesn't feel that way.


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## Trying2figureitout

Arnold said:


> Don't beta get results, as well. In fact, it seems that in the long run, betas , often, get better results.


I think in general betas have better results for the overall long term marriage BUT when troubles start betas are ill equipped to deal with the issue in a fashion it needs dealt with often extending their own misery.

I think all betas should eventually strive to become more alphas along the way.


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## Arnold

Sawney Beane said:


> You're missing the point. It's all to do with not p1ssing away everyone's time, energy and goodwill trying to prove you're "right" all the time, just to make a point. Because the point you make is "I'm prepared to make everyone unhappy to get my own way".
> 
> And it's got f*ck-all to do with capitulating to anyone. If you're wrong, stop arguing. All you do is reinforce the fact that you're a f*ckwit.


I was referring to times when one is right.


----------



## Halien

Kobo said:


> I disagree with focusing on results. You should be who you are no matter the results (boundaries, NUTS, etc.). You have two salesmen with the same quota. One lies and bends the truth to get his numbers looking right. One plays by the rules and doesn't get his numbers. Would you consider the liar the dominant man? I think if we allow ourselves to be driven by a specific result that we can get ourselves into compromising positions. If we desire to be a honest, respected, hard working, loving, man we will strive for those things and in the end be rewarded with the results we desire.


Good point. I really wasn't trying to say that you change your moral code to get results, though. Maybe you can explain it better, but what I was suggesting is that if you have a friction point in a marriage, or work, you'll know that you are alpha when you realize that you just can't let it go unaddressed. You make a choice with almost everything that happens. Do this, let her lead, or intentionally wait. In Sawney's example, you also just make the choice that its not worth fighting about, so you decide to let it go. Does that make sense? In discussing with close friends, I see that some of them just let things slide, unaddressed and anacknowledged in their mind. It would drive me bananas. My employees jokingly call me Mr. Integrity because they say I'm always addressing problems or reinforcing their good decisions through compliments.


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## Tall Average Guy

Kobo said:


> I disagree with focusing on results. You should be who you are no matter the results (boundaries, NUTS, etc.). You have two salesmen with the same quota. One lies and bends the truth to get his numbers looking right. One plays by the rules and doesn't get his numbers. Would you consider the liar the dominant man? I think if we allow ourselves to be driven by a specific result that we can get ourselves into compromising positions. If we desire to be a honest, respected, hard working, loving, man we will strive for those things and in the end be rewarded with the results we desire.


I would argue that the items you list at the end are the real results, not superficial goals like sales results. You are striving to acheive those results. Being alpha, manning up, whatever, is about acheiving those results that make you the man you want to be.


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## that_girl

But, whether alpha or beta, don't they still have sex drives?


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## Sawney Beane

Arnold said:


> I was referring to times when one is right.


If you'd rather show that you're right than be happy, you carry on. But someone who _knows_ they're right and plays the game tends to get laid more than a pompous git or a smartarse. Which is what endlessly telling people you're right will get you seen as. Just because you're right, doesn't mean people will love hearing about it.


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## AFEH

Sawney Beane said:


> If you'd rather show that you're right than happy, you carry on. But someone who _knows_ they're right and plays the game tends to get laid more than a pompous git or a smartarse. Which is what endlessly telling people you're right will get you seen as. Just because you're right, doesn't mean people will love hearing about it.


Ironic.


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## AFEH

that_girl said:


> But, whether alpha or beta, don't they still have sex drives?


Alphas can be Betas too. And Betas can be Alphas. Plus an Alpha is only an Alpha until a bigger Alpha comes along, then he becomes a Beta.

So the answer is yes!


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## that_girl

AFEH said:


> Alphas can be Betas too. And Betas can be Alphas. Plus an Alpha is only an Alpha until a bigger Alpha comes along, then he becomes a Beta.
> 
> So the answer is yes!


Yea, that's how I thought too. lol.

I am not following the train of thought in some of these posts....


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## Sawney Beane

AFEH said:


> Ironic.


Right back at you...


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## Halien

that_girl said:


> Yea, that's how I thought too. lol.
> 
> I am not following the train of thought in some of these posts....


Maybe just safe to blame it on the Men's Clubhouse thing - some discussions have little rationale otherwise. But to give the cheat code, if a guy who tends to be an alpha sort or beta sort doesn't follow the prescribed script, somebody's gonna question him.


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## that_girl

Halien said:


> Maybe just safe to blame it on the Men's Clubhouse thing - some discussions have little rationale otherwise. But to give the cheat code, if a guy who tends to be an alpha sort or beta sort doesn't follow the prescribed script, somebody's gonna question him.


Meaning....if an alpha starts acting beta and visa versa?

:scratchhead:

LOL Oh well, I only have to worry about my husband's sex drive.


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## Deejo

It's a scale, not a check-box.

Excess of either is UN-attractive.

People connotate a very strong sex drive with being more alpha ... but in truth, I believe how you behave in terms of alpha or beta doesn't set much of any kind of benchmark for sex drive. Unless, once again we are talking about extremes ... which takes us back to why that is, which would be testosterone.


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## that_girl

Deejo said:


> It's a scale, not a check-box.
> 
> Excess of either is UN-attractive.


:iagree:

I think of _*Back to the Future*_. Mr. McFly and Biff. :rofl: Extremes and both YUCK! :rofl: Well, until McFly punched Biff. Then....reverse rolls and McFly looked pretty fly


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## Arnold

Sawney Beane said:


> If you'd rather show that you're right than be happy, you carry on. But someone who _knows_ they're right and plays the game tends to get laid more than a pompous git or a smartarse. Which is what endlessly telling people you're right will get you seen as. Just because you're right, doesn't mean people will love hearing about it.


Well, if I get laid anymore, I think I might keel over. So, I guess I better keep sticking up for truth, justice and the American way.


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## Runs like Dog

Gamma? Omicron? Rho? Is there another option?


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## Arnold

How about "power droid"?


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## ManDup

aston said:


> Im not asking about the acceptability, I was making a point regarding the double standard in-that IF you told your hubby you wanted a 3way with another woman you migh be received differently than if you wanted it with another man involved. Which creates the issue of what kinds of fantasies if any should be shared. I'm very sure a man won't lose respect for you if you wanted a 3 way with another woman (any man who says they don't want this is either a good liar or they have their woman well fooled in that dept.).


I disagree. There are also those of us who have been there, done that and didn't like the results. I would strongly frown on a woman saying she wanted any kind of 3-way, but luckily that was cleared up pre-marriage this time around. I don't even watch porn any more because there is so much MFF in it.


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## ManDup

Trenton said:


> Because they think it's where their power is?


Yes, which goes to show (true fact) that with women, sex is always about power. The woman has to find a man more powerful than her, or she will be unattracted and eventually cheat or leave. Women claim rape is about power; men rarely do unless they've been trained to (by women's power). And apparently loose women are loose because they think it gives them power too. But guess what, no man is chasing Hilary Clinton because of her power.


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## okeydokie

ManDup said:


> But guess what, no man is chasing Hilary Clinton because of her power.


that aint the only reason


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## Therealbrighteyes

ManDup said:


> Yes, which goes to show (true fact) that with women, sex is always about power. The woman has to find a man more powerful than her, or she will be unattracted and eventually cheat or leave. Women claim rape is about power; men rarely do unless they've been trained to (by women's power). And apparently loose women are loose because they think it gives them power too. But guess what, no man is chasing Hilary Clinton because of her power.


I have no idea what one has to go through to have such a warped perception about women in general and their sexuality. Please wear a sign though so us women give you wide birth. Thanks.


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## LimboGirl

ManDup said:


> Yes, which goes to show (true fact) that with women, sex is always about power. The woman has to find a man more powerful than her, or she will be unattracted and eventually cheat or leave. Women claim rape is about power; men rarely do unless they've been trained to (by women's power). And apparently loose women are loose because they think it gives them power too. But guess what, no man is chasing Hilary Clinton because of her power.


ManDup, you seem very angry.


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## ManDup

LimboGirl said:


> ManDup, you seem very angry.


I'm curious, how does stating facts come off as angry? Can you dispute those facts? I have science on my side.


----------



## Trenton

ManDup said:


> Yes, which goes to show (true fact) that with women, sex is always about power. The woman has to find a man more powerful than her, or she will be unattracted and eventually cheat or leave. Women claim rape is about power; men rarely do unless they've been trained to (by women's power). And apparently loose women are loose because they think it gives them power too. But guess what, no man is chasing Hilary Clinton because of her power.


Hesitant to answer you as it's not exactly on topic. 

Can you please show me your proof in regards to this true fact that for women sex is always about power. I totally disagree. Always is a very strong adverb. 

Women claim rape is about power? It's just a claim and men never make that claim on women's behalf...only women claim this? I disagree again.

Loose women are loose because they think it gives them power? Disagree (at least there is no always here).

You seem to believe that Hilary Clinton is worth _less _because men are not chasing her. I'm doubting she cares.


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## that_girl

Rape is a violent act. It's not sex. Period.


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## LimboGirl

ManDup said:


> I'm curious, how does stating facts come off as angry? Can you dispute those facts? I have science on my side.


I didn't see any kind of scientific proof in your statement that sex with women is always about power. Also in other posts you seem angry. I get from your posts that you feel you got screwed in your divorce. But what does that have to do with the male sex drive. Unless you no longer want to have sex because you got taken for a ride. Not all women are like your ex.


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## LimboGirl

ManDup said:


> Yes, which goes to show (true fact) that with women, sex is always about power. The woman has to find a man more powerful than her, or she will be unattracted and eventually cheat or leave. Women claim rape is about power; men rarely do unless they've been trained to (by women's power). And apparently loose women are loose because they think it gives them power too. But guess what, no man is chasing Hilary Clinton because of her power.


What do you claim rape is about?


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## LimboGirl

ManDup,

Looking at your posts in other threads could it just be that you don't like women? I'm not talking sexually. I mean as people.


----------

