# "Just Friends"



## GoingCrazy01

Hello everyone! I have some concerns with my husbands actions and looking for some help! My husband exchanged phone numbers with a female coworker. He did not tell me this until I asked. After 2 weeks of having this friend I asked one day who he was texting. He told me he had a friend from work. He swears they were just friends. The problem is do I believe him? He has never gone anyplace with this woman. He was home every weekend and evening. He always spends all his time with us. He said he was not really keeping it from me. He told me as soon as I asked. Can men and women be just friends or was there more going on. He has never cheated and we have been together for 16 years. We have sex daily. The other thing is that I do not have the text messages as he always has kept his phone clean. I do have access to all his passwords and phone and computer. He has no problem with that. I also asked that he not text her anymore. Then he admitted that she also goes to the same gym as him and that is how they started talking. I asked him not to text her anymore and to please switch gyms. He has stopped texting her and switched gyms. He also does not work there anymore. He was offered a promotion to leave. So, am I overreacting? I am so mad. I actually want to leave him over this breech of trust but I love him so much. He has never done anything like this in the past and he says he didn't do anything wrong. Would this be an emotional affair possibly? They were texting everyday for 2 weeks. So confused. It has been months now and he has not texted her. Also, he invited me to work functions where she will be so he doesn't really seem to care if I am around her. He also said I can message her if I want but I never did that. Also, I have anxiety so sometimes I wonder if it is all in my head. Any advice would be appreciated. Is this as bad as I am making it out to be? He swears they were just friends....


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## Married but Happy

Yes, men and women CAN be just friends. I've had dozens of platonic female friends, from work and socially. We'd occasionally hang out, go for lunch, etc. Nothing inappropriate - just like doing the same stuff with a male friend. Some were even pretty - it made no difference. If a person has good boundaries - and tries to avoid the really difficult situations where temptation could lead to action - then they can be trusted.


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## Volunteer86

Yes I believe they can be friends. So what are they texting about? I'm sure if he shows you then it would be fine, if not then something may be up. He has done everything you have asked it seems. I would think it would be ok


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## badmemory

I have a different perspective on that since I've joined the club of BS's. I think it's OK to have opposite sex work friends - *at work *, but not to the extent of texting them during non-work hours. That's a strict marital boundary for me now. That's how A's start and I don't blame you a bit for being uncomfortable with it.

It sounds like your husband tried to cross that boundary, you told him you weren't OK with it, and he respected it. So, I would probably stop worrying about it. 

But I might just glance at the cell phone records occasionally.


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## OnTheRocks

Based on his total transparency, ditching her, switching gyms, and changing jobs, I think you are overreacting. But, you both could benefit from reading Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Opposite sex friends are not a problem as long as appropriate boundaries are in place.


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## Diana7

I would say that he was treading on thin ice and that had you not discovered it, it may have gone past being just friends. There is no need for a person to be texting an opposite sex work colleague at all. Its good that you discovered it and hopefully he is now aware of the dangers and of how you feel about it.
I know so many affairs that started with being 'just friends' at work, so I am well aware of the dangers.


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## Rob_1

I do have a few females coworkers that I Tex when I'm home. Also I go out with them to happy hour and dancing. I could be their father (age wise). My wife knows of all these activities, and she doesn't get all bent out shape threatening with divorce and going hysterical. Why? Because, she trusts me, just like I trust her. 
What you are proyecting here are insecurities, and a lack of confidence in yourself to the point that you commanded your husband to stop the friendship. If you were my wife, I wouldn't put up with it. Your husband must be a nice guy.

As far as what you posted, there's nothing there to treat your husband the way you did. Controlling much? My take.


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## NickyT

I think men and women can be friends, but married men who have female friends at work don't text them every day when away from work. I think you stumbled upon something that was budding. The good news is that he seems to have handled it. You have to let him succeed on this. If you continue to harp on it, he will wonder why he gave up his fun.


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## badmemory

Rob_1 said:


> I do have a few females coworkers that I Tex when I'm home. Also I go out with them to happy hour and dancing. I could be their father (age wise). My wife knows of all these activities, and she doesn't get all bent out shape threatening with divorce and going hysterical. Why? Because, she trusts me, *just like I trust her*.


I used to accept those same loose marital boundaries, because *I trusted my wife*. But if I could go back in time and change them to what they are now, I wouldn't hesitate to do that. If it didn't prevent her A, at least it would have a made it much more difficult for her.


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## pragmaticGoddess

I think men and women can be friends, but if you’re married you need to put some boundaries in place. I would not be comfortable if a male colleague texted me outside of work everyday and I would have no interest in sustaining such communication if I wasn’t interested in them. This is beyond ‘socialising’. Your husband has done well to take your concerns unto consideration and stop communication with his female work colleague. I don’t think any more than friendship happened.


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## Diana7

badmemory said:


> I used to accept those same loose marital boundaries, because *I trusted my wife*. But if I could go back in time and change them to what they are now, I wouldn't hesitate to do that. If it didn't prevent her A, at least it would have a made it much more difficult for her.


Yes, all the people I know whose spouse cheated 'trusted' them. That's why we need good boundaries, because so many people just cant be trusted.


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## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> I do have a few females coworkers that I Tex when I'm home. Also I go out with them to happy hour and dancing. I could be their father (age wise). My wife knows of all these activities, and she doesn't get all bent out shape threatening with divorce and going hysterical. Why? Because, she trusts me, just like I trust her.
> What you are proyecting here are insecurities, and a lack of confidence in yourself to the point that you commanded your husband to stop the friendship. If you were my wife, I wouldn't put up with it. Your husband must be a nice guy.
> 
> As far as what you posted, there's nothing there to treat your husband the way you did. Controlling much? My take.


We also trust each other, but there is no way that we would go out drinking or dancing without each other. 
I know so many affairs that began at work, we need to be aware of the dangers.


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## pragmaticGoddess

If a coworker who is old enough to be my father texted me out of work hours I wouldn’t reply! Cringe 

OP I understand that it would be necessary for your husband and the female colleague to communicate outside of work hours if it was work related, but apart from that there’s no reason to. It’s called being wise enough to put boundaries in place to safe guard your marriage. 

I wouldn’t resort to divorce. You might have to work out some insecurity issues there.


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## uhtred

I think its possible for men and women to be friends, but I think that it is also possible for a friendship to drift towards an emotional affair without either realizing that it is going that way.


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## Rob_1

Not me. I couldn't live the life of ball & chain just because I'm married. I do believe in social responsibilities and so does my wife. You can cage a person not to do what you don't want them to do, still they will find a way.

My filosophy has always been that of hands free. If you cheat on me I eventually will know (cheaters almost always, sooner or later get caught.), Is just a matter of time. Even very young inexperienced people most of the time they catch their cheating partner. I never had the experience, but I do know myself and my limits. I'm too proud of myself, and secure enough in my masculinity to know that if she cheats is not a matter of when, who, why, where, only that she did. Game over, marriage over. No wimpy, spineless, pick me game for me. Shock & awe would be my response. So far in my life I've been lucky in that respect. I also am a true believer of the "trust but verify" axiom. I'm always subconsciously, analyzing data in my family's Dynamics.

So no, no social restrictions in my relationship with my wife in order to keep it loyal. I wouldn't like to make partner with a woman were she, I, or both have to muzzle each other in order to keep us from straying. That would be insulting to me.


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## Harken Banks

Texting everyday for two weeks is a very bad sign. Good that you seem to have nipped this in the bud.


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## StillSearching

Keeps his phone clean? Why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GoingCrazy01

Thanks for the reply from everyone. I am not usually a controlling person but this whole situation just got me a little concerned. It’s odd for him to do this. When he offered to text her answer tell her they couldn’t talk anymore I asked him to delete everything. So, he deleted the last message and I didn’t get to see it. The message where he told her they couldn’t text anymore everyday. I did get the reply from her though. He didn’t try to hide his phone. All it said was “I told you to be honest with her from the beginning. Have a good weekend.” Do you guys think that sounds innocent enough?????


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## GoingCrazy01

And as for the keeping his phone clean. He has always deleted all his messages since he first got a phone. He deletes them in front of me. He says maybe it saves space. Not too conserved about that as he was deleting the messages before he starting talking to her. I have the phone records. And he wasn’t texting anyone else before that cause the records would have shown it.


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## Harken Banks

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Thanks for the reply from everyone. I am not usually a controlling person but this whole situation just got me a little concerned. It’s odd for him to do this. When he offered to text her answer tell her they couldn’t talk anymore I asked him to delete everything. So, he deleted the last message and I didn’t get to see it. The message where he told her they couldn’t text anymore everyday. I did get the reply from her though. He didn’t try to hide his phone. All it said was “I told you to be honest with her from the beginning. Have a good weekend.” Do you guys think that sounds innocent enough?????


It is kind of a weird and self-serving message. Of course she knew you would be the audience. As long as it is cut off, it is cut off. You were not being paranoid.


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## FalCod

If you are that worried on that little evidence, I think you do have a problem. You need to understand why you have so little trust in your husband. Has he done things to warrant that? Maybe you can get him to restore the texts (if that is possible) and then see them. Or just tell him that it's OK to have female friends but to be open about it and not delete communications.

I'm extremely happily married. I've got about a dozen female friends at work. Most our married as well. I just texted one a few minutes ago to see how her daughter was because she told me this morning about some trouble that she's going through. Many of my younger friends prefer to communicate via text, so I have lots of text communications with them. In fact, of the last ten people I exchanged one-to-one (as opposed to group) texts with, 5 are women friends (plus 2 guys, my wife, my sister, and my son). My most recent exciting texts with these women are the aforementioned checkup on one's daughter, a reminder to bring home some frozen treats I got for another's husband about to have his tonsils out, an exchange coordinating when we were meeting for a lunch walk with another, an exchange about buying some new limited edition Oreos for another that couldn't make our lunch walk but has an obsession over limited edition Oreos, and a discussion about some puzzles I got for the last one over Christmas.

How does my marriage survive all this? Trust and transparency. My wife can and does unlock my phone. In fact, I registered one of her fingerprints to make it easier. She doesn't do it to snoop. She does it because I often have her respond to texts for me when I'm driving or otherwise unable to respond. She's also friends with all of my women friends because we often meet for social occasions. My women friends all think my wife is one of the most incredible people there is (especially because she tolerates me!). 

Could I be cheating on her? Technically, yes. If I did, could I easily hide it? I'm sure that I could. So even if she was paranoid and tried to lock down my life, it wouldn't stop anything. In fact, it would encourage it because it would make me bitter if I was heavily controlled by her. 

One of the 2 guys I texted complains to me frequently (and with increasing sadness) about how controlling and paranoid his wife is. She accuses him of cheating almost any time she interacts with another woman. Maybe it's because he's much more attractive than I am. Who isn't? The problem is that her paranoia is making him increasingly unhappy. 

I realize that some people are cheaters. I don't think being paranoid about it is going to help. You guys need to find reasonable boundaries that work for the two of you. That might be as relaxed and trusting as the way me and my wife are. It might be as tight as rules against one-on-one conversations or meetings. Whatever it is, work it out together, live that way, and don't distrust each other. Distrust is more likely to cost you your happiness than it is to save it.


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## Rob_1

@FalCod: EXACTLY, your marriage mirrors mine almost to a tee when it comes to people outside the marriage. Specially me, since I'm the social butterfly, rather than my wife. I just can't fathom the level of mistrust in a lot of marriages. It only shows the level of insecurities that some people have. 

Myself, I've been in the position a couple of times where younger (could have been my daughters), females coworkers that I had befriended, and developed a very good report due to compatibilities, had suddenly become extremely, suceptible emotionally due to failure in their relationships. I could of had easy picking with them, but I love my wife and cheating on her is in my mind out of the question. Sometimes, just the thought of doing that to her spookes me. I'm that loyal, but at the same time in the event of her cheating on me I would flip the switch, just as easily. I do recall time after the drama was over for one of this younger woman (I was her shoulder to cry on), that I told her " you know that I could had have you anytime, had I decided to do it while you were so distress and relying on me. She looked at me kind of a little ashamed and said yeah, you could had, I would had let you." But I always been a man of integrity when it comes to these matters. I never could Had taken advantage of them, even if I was single at the time. I'm saying this to show that there are people in this world that still have integrity and would not do the things we read in these forums. You as a mate have to have sufficient sense to gauge your mate and know what boundaries must exist in the relationship for it not to go south.


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## GoingCrazy01

Thanks guys. I have bad anxiety so sometimes I wonder if I am overreacting. It’s been quite awhile since he has spoken to her.


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## Quality

Rob_1 said:


> @FalCod: EXACTLY, your marriage mirrors mine almost to a tee when it comes to people outside the marriage. Specially me, since I'm the social butterfly, rather than my wife. I just can't fathom the level of mistrust in a lot of marriages. It only shows the level of insecurities that some people have.
> 
> Myself, I've been in the position a couple of times where younger (could have been my daughters), females coworkers that I had befriended, and developed a very good report due to compatibilities, had suddenly become extremely, suceptible emotionally due to failure in their relationships. I could of had easy picking with them, but I love my wife and cheating on her is in my mind out of the question. Sometimes, just the thought of doing that to her spookes me. I'm that loyal, but at the same time in the event of her cheating on me I would flip the switch, just as easily. I do recall time after the drama was over for one of this younger woman (I was her shoulder to cry on), that I told her " you know that I could had have you anytime, had I decided to do it while you were so distress and relying on me. She looked at me kind of a little ashamed and said yeah, you could had, I would had let you." But I always been a man of integrity when it comes to these matters. I never could Had taken advantage of them, even if I was single at the time. I'm saying this to show that there are people in this world that still have integrity and would not do the things we read in these forums. You as a mate have to have sufficient sense to gauge your mate and know what boundaries must exist in the relationship for it not to go south.


You're just having sport with us, right? The above is a diatribe of a husband that completely lacks proper marital boundaries and is completely willing to take unnecessary risks based upon a completely erroneous supposition that one is incapable of cheating and therefore can take any risks he wants. There is nothing masculine about a married man "comforting" women in distress or, even worse, discussing hypotheticals about "having had you" with her seeking confirmation. I'm assuming your wife doesn't know about those events because you believe firmly in secrecy and blind trust in marriage. I don't she'd be happy if she knew.

You appear to have a wayward mindset and your posts on this thread are an indication that you really aren't marriage material. The infidelity rate is just too high for anyone to be so naive as to think they are immune. If I had a $1 for every time a couple {both spouses) overcoming infidelity told me that they both never thought the wayward would ever cheat and|or the wayward, they thought, was the least likely to cheat, I'd be a fairly wealthy man. Pride before the fall. 

It's ok. My mindset in my early marriage was similarly liberal on the issue. I had lots of girls I was just friends with and presumed NOT having opposite-sex friends in marriage was an antiquated notion. I grew up and learned better. Holding each other accountable isn't about control or insecurity. I'm not a jealous person nor do I have self-esteem issues {which might be why I was able to give my wife another chance long ago and not feel I necessarily had to throw her away = though I was prepared to and presumed myself that would be my knee-jerk reaction}. Mutual accountability is about recognizing we are all human and prone to sin and leaning into our spouses and letting them help us become better persons while not taking completely unnecessary risks with our extraordinary marriage. 

Here's an article I found that might help the OP navigate this issue and even discuss it further with her husband in a way that makes it clear to both of them that this isn't about control but rather proper marital boundaries. 

"The Risks of Opposite Sex Relationships in Marriage"


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## Openminded

Not all male/female friendships become affairs, obviously, but with poor boundaries they can. I ended a very long marriage because of one that did. It's good to be cautious.


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## Quality

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Thanks guys. I have bad anxiety so sometimes I wonder if I am overreacting. It’s been quite awhile since he has spoken to her.


You weren't overreacting and, if you have "bad anxiety", your husband should be doubly sure to live a lifestyle that doesn't trigger such "bad anxiety" to the fullest extent he can. 

It's good he discontinued the inappropriate friendship with that woman but, what gave him permission to undertake that relationship in the first place without telling you? This one appears to have fell by the wayside but next time he might not be so lucky and he'll befriend a real bunny boiler or one that he just fancies way too much to want to give up {and then he'll take the "friendship" underground where it gets really inappropriate}.

This doesn't sound like something you need to get mad at your husband about. It's more of an opportunity to come together on the issue and define proper boundaries for yourselves.


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## RandomDude

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Hello everyone! I have some concerns with my husbands actions and looking for some help! My husband exchanged phone numbers with a female coworker. He did not tell me this until I asked. After 2 weeks of having this friend I asked one day who he was texting. He told me he had a friend from work. He swears they were just friends. The problem is do I believe him? He has never gone anyplace with this woman. He was home every weekend and evening. He always spends all his time with us. He said he was not really keeping it from me. He told me as soon as I asked. Can men and women be just friends or was there more going on. He has never cheated and we have been together for 16 years. We have sex daily. The other thing is that I do not have the text messages as he always has kept his phone clean. I do have access to all his passwords and phone and computer. He has no problem with that. I also asked that he not text her anymore. Then he admitted that she also goes to the same gym as him and that is how they started talking. I asked him not to text her anymore and to please switch gyms. He has stopped texting her and switched gyms. He also does not work there anymore. He was offered a promotion to leave. So, am I overreacting? I am so mad. I actually want to leave him over this breech of trust but I love him so much. He has never done anything like this in the past and he says he didn't do anything wrong. Would this be an emotional affair possibly? They were texting everyday for 2 weeks. So confused. It has been months now and he has not texted her. Also, he invited me to work functions where she will be so he doesn't really seem to care if I am around her. He also said I can message her if I want but I never did that. Also, I have anxiety so sometimes I wonder if it is all in my head. Any advice would be appreciated. Is this as bad as I am making it out to be? He swears they were just friends....


Normally I would advocate listening to your instincts however in your case it looks like your instincts and feelings are clouded by fear, insecurity, jealousy and possessiveness. He's done everything you ask of him, earned and maintained your trust for 16 years, continues being fully transparent with you, and you still question him. If I was him, that would actually push me away, making me MORE vulnerable to an emotional affair.


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## TRy

Rob_1 said:


> I do have a few females coworkers that I Tex when I'm home. Also I go out with them to happy hour and dancing. I could be their father (age wise). My wife knows of all these activities, and she doesn't get all bent out shape threatening with divorce and going hysterical. Why? Because, she trusts me, just like I trust her.
> What you are proyecting here are insecurities, and a lack of confidence in yourself to the point that you commanded your husband to stop the friendship. If you were my wife, I wouldn't put up with it. Your husband must be a nice guy.
> 
> As far as what you posted, there's nothing there to treat your husband the way you did. Controlling much? My take.


You go out with opposite sex young female coworkers without your wife "to happy hour and dancing", and expect your wife to be OK with it because she should trust you. If anyone thinks such actions are not OK in their marriage, you would call them insecure, and tell them that they lacked confidence. Sorry, but if you were my spouse, "I wouldn't put up with it". Not saying that such actions always results in cheating, but if your read the infidelity section, it sure often leads up to it. 

Question: How does a cheater say "Screw You"?
Answer: They say "Trust Me".


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## Rob_1

@Quality: now at 65 yrs of age, and decades being married, never, ever having cheated on a girlfriend or wife; if this does not qualifiés me as marriage material, I don't know what would. You must not trust yourself, neither anyone that becomes your partner. What a jaded life you most live.


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## TRy

GoingCrazy01 said:


> The other thing is that I do not have the text messages as he always has kept his phone clean.


 With the size of storage so large, and the size of text messages so small, there is little reason for him to be keeping his "phone clean" by deleting his text messages. The storage of even one song or photo uses more space then thousands of text messages. Although a few non-cheaters take the time to keep their phone clean by deleting all of their text messages, almost all cheater make it a point to do so; it is one of the standard red flags. Another red flag is exchanging cell numbers with a member of the opposite sex, and texting them outside of work without telling your spouse, only admitting to it when your spouse already knows about it. You did the right thing establishing your boundaries.


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## TRy

Rob_1 said:


> @FalCodI do recall time after the drama was over for one of this younger woman (I was her shoulder to cry on), that I told her " you know that I could had have you anytime, had I decided to do it while you were so distress and relying on me. She looked at me kind of a little ashamed and said yeah, you could had, I would had let you."


 Wow, you told a younger other woman that you could have had sex with her if you wanted, with her responding that she would have let you, and you think that this is an OK conversation for a married man to be having with another woman? It shows that you both thought about it, to say the least. Sex or no sex, it was an intimate relationship with a member of the opposite sex that gave you an ego boost. I am curious, but do you think that an emotional affair is OK as long is there is no physical contact?


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## TRy

GoingCrazy01 said:


> The message where he told her they couldn’t text anymore everyday. I did get the reply from her though. He didn’t try to hide his phone. All it said was “I told you to be honest with her from the beginning. Have a good weekend.” Do you guys think that sounds innocent enough?????


 No I do not think that her saying to your husband that "I told you to be honest with her from the beginning” "sounds innocent" For her maybe, but for him no. She was actually told him to be honest with you about it, and he decide not to.


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## sokillme

I would ask any of you who were cheated on in this scenario do you really think putting your foot down would have changed anything? I personally think that there is really no real way to control your spouse, I mean you can bring it to their attention but if they really want to step out they are going to find a way.


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## sokillme

Quality said:


> You're just having sport with us, right? The above is a diatribe of a husband that completely lacks proper marital boundaries and is completely willing to take unnecessary risks based upon a completely erroneous supposition that one is incapable of cheating and therefore can take any risks he wants. There is nothing masculine about a married man "comforting" women in distress or, even worse, discussing hypotheticals about "having had you" with her seeking confirmation. I'm assuming your wife doesn't know about those events because you believe firmly in secrecy and blind trust in marriage. I don't she'd be happy if she knew.
> 
> You appear to have a wayward mindset and your posts on this thread are an indication that you really aren't marriage material. The infidelity rate is just too high for anyone to be so naive as to think they are immune. If I had a $1 for every time a couple {both spouses) overcoming infidelity told me that they both never thought the wayward would ever cheat and|or the wayward, they thought, was the least likely to cheat, I'd be a fairly wealthy man. Pride before the fall.
> 
> It's ok. My mindset in my early marriage was similarly liberal on the issue. I had lots of girls I was just friends with and presumed NOT having opposite-sex friends in marriage was an antiquated notion. I grew up and learned better. Holding each other accountable isn't about control or insecurity. I'm not a jealous person nor do I have self-esteem issues {which might be why I was able to give my wife another chance long ago and not feel I necessarily had to throw her away = though I was prepared to and presumed myself that would be my knee-jerk reaction}. Mutual accountability is about recognizing we are all human and prone to sin and leaning into our spouses and letting them help us become better persons while not taking completely unnecessary risks with our extraordinary marriage.
> 
> Here's an article I found that might help the OP navigate this issue and even discuss it further with her husband in a way that makes it clear to both of them that this isn't about control but rather proper marital boundaries.
> 
> "The Risks of Opposite Sex Relationships in Marriage"


For once you and I are in complete agreement. I don't think this is a good strategy for long term success when the goal is monogamy.


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## VermiciousKnid

This is how it starts. You need to nip it in the bud now. Don't wait.


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## Quality

sokillme said:


> I would ask any of you who were cheated on in this scenario do you really think putting your foot down would have changed anything? I personally think that there is really no real way to control your spouse, I mean you can bring it to their attention but if they really want to step out they are going to find a way.


I don't think "putting my foot down" is really the proper way to look at it. My wife isn't my child.

If our marriage was like it is now === which is doable for anyone == her affair would have been avoided. She wasn't looking for cake, but rather to recreate our relationship when we started dating. A slightly tough pill to swallow at the time but it still doesn't excuse her choice in any manner. But I can say with confidence that had I been "cherishing" her the way God intended me to, it wouldn't have happened {just as had she been respecting and honoring me the way God intended, it wouldn't have happened}.

Our marriage was in a ditch and both of us were immature, stubborn, entitled idiots unwilling to empathize with the other, accept responsibility or seek help fixing it ---until. 

Both of us are fully aware the other could cheat if they really wanted too. Meh. We don't "control" each other - we just utilize common sense traditional marital boundaries earnestly while holding each other accountable and living our lives as though our spouse might be watching at any time and KNOWING that God is watching always.


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## sokillme

Quality said:


> I don't think "putting my foot down" is really the proper way to look at it. My wife isn't my child.
> 
> If our marriage was like it is now === which is doable for anyone == her affair would have been avoided. She wasn't looking for cake, but rather to recreate our relationship when we started dating. A slightly tough pill to swallow at the time but it still doesn't excuse her choice in any manner. But I can say with confidence that had I been "cherishing" her the way God intended me to, it wouldn't have happened {just as had she been respecting and honoring me the way God intended, it wouldn't have happened}.
> 
> Our marriage was in a ditch and both of us were immature, stubborn, entitled idiots unwilling to empathize with the other, accept responsibility or seek help fixing it ---until.
> 
> Both of us are fully aware the other could cheat if they really wanted too. Meh. We don't "control" each other - we just utilize common sense traditional marital boundaries earnestly while holding each other accountable and living our lives as though our spouse might be watching at any time and KNOWING that God is watching always.


My point really is that if your spouse wants to cheat they can there is really nothing you can do about it. So posts like, "don't let her do that!" and stuff seem to me to be just kind of a waste of time. There is no way to make someone faithful, I feel a lot of time the battle is lost the moment you marry someone like this and it was just a matter of time.

The best you can do is point out that how they are behaving has the potential to destroy the relationship and hope they are smart enough to change their ways.


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## Quality

sokillme said:


> My point really is that if your spouse wants to cheat they can there is really nothing you can do about it. So posts like, "don't let her do that!" and stuff seem to me to be just kind of a waste of time. There is no way to make someone faithful, I feel a lot of time the battle is lost the moment you marry someone like this and it was just a matter of time.
> 
> The best you can do is point out that how they are behaving has the potential to destroy the relationship and hope they are smart enough to change their ways.


"someone like this" = human

Were all hypothetically capable of cheating --- some more than others {but who's to know?}

Actually --- there is kind of a way to statistically evaluate how risky an individual may be ~ {statistics aren't people --- these are just trends or correlations }:

Calculate your Ace Score: Adverse Childhood Experiences

ACE=Adverse Childhood Experience. It's a scale created in the 1990's based upon statistical analysis of real world people {Kaiser Medical study on 17,000 mostly white and mostly educated San Diego'ians}. 1-10 categories each worth 1pt. Any score over 3 will statistically result in some detrimental effect on adult health/disease, emotional behavior, and social behavior in their lifetime if abuse is left untreated. The higher the number, the likelihood of a shorter lifespan by up to 20 years increases exponentially; 6 or more and the person has a 4000% greater chance of using IV drugs that the average bear. That ain't no extra zero either = FOUR THOUSAND PERCENT. Cancer, chronic, pain, addiction, *promiscuity*, diabetes, obesity, depression, *inability to form & maintain relationships {intimacy issues}*, learning disabilities, mental illness, etc...all chances increase immensely with a higher score. 

One addiction doctor summarized it by indicating that the higher your score the more likely you will respond to future difficulties in your life with "ritualized compulsive comfort seeking" behavior like drugs, alcohol, eating, sex, escapism, unhealthy relationships and|or abuse. Ritualized compulsive comfort-seeking (what traditionalists sometimes call addiction) is a normal response to the adversity experienced in childhood, just like bleeding is a normal response to being stabbed.  { Dr Daniel Sumrock }

So while I was the "independent behaving" spouse with worse boundaries around the opposite sex early in our marriage and my wife was the much more jealous, possessive and controlling spouse that neither of us considered really at risk, when our marriage became extremely difficult after we had children {and all marriages get difficult from time to time especially with young children on the scene}, I was much more resilient and it was my wife's higher ACE score that, unbeknownst to me, made her a much more likely candidate to resort to some kind of "comfort-seeking" behavior like escaping into a fantastical adulterous relationship.

My Ace score is a zero and my wife is a 3 or 4 or 5 depending on how you want to define "often".

What's your score?


----------



## RWB

OnTheRocks said:


> But, you both could benefit from reading Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. *Opposite sex friends are not a problem as long as appropriate boundaries are in place.*


Those appropriate boundaries can quickly turn into a mighty slippery slope IMO. Texting, lunch dates, and gym workouts can be all friendly and innocent right up to point where the panties hit the floor.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Do you guys think I should contact this woman? My husband said it was ok. Just wondering if maybe I waited to long. It’s been months. Guessing she will think I am retarded contacting her months later when they don’t even talk anymore. And were only friends for 3 weeks in total. Stupid idea? Thought it might bring me some closure...


----------



## ButtPunch

Get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass

Read it

Then let your hubby read it


----------



## TRy

sokillme said:


> My point really is that if your spouse wants to cheat they can there is really nothing you can do about it. So posts like, "don't let her do that!" and stuff seem to me to be just kind of a waste of time. There is no way to make someone faithful, I feel a lot of time the battle is lost the moment you marry someone like this and it was just a matter time.


 If you marry a serial cheater, you are right that “There is no way to make someone faithful” that does not want to be. But most cheaters did not look to have an affair, they just had weak boundaries that allowed feeling to develop that led to them having an affair. If there were good marital boundaries in place, there is a better chance that they would not have cheated. The nice thing about boundaries is that you can enforce them without having to prove cheating, since the whole point of having boundaries is to prevent the development of later cheating.


----------



## Harken Banks

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Do you guys think I should contact this woman? My husband said it was ok. Just wondering if maybe I waited to long. It’s been months. Guessing she will think I am retarded contacting her months later when they don’t even talk anymore. And were only friends for 3 weeks in total. Stupid idea? Thought it might bring me some closure...


They only knew each other 3 weeks and were texting each other every day for at least two of those? That is zero to 60 in a hurry. I think you can be confident this was more than a "just friends" situation. My wife did the same thing and I tried to find every way in which it might be innocent. Unfortunately, it was not and it took me several months to find that out. Devastating. That kind of frenetic activity indicates the excitement of a new relationship. You could call her for her perspective. She may be willing to share.


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## GoingCrazy01

P


Harken Banks said:


> They only knew each other 3 weeks and were texting each other every day for at least two of those? That is zero to 60 in a hurry. I think you can be confident this was more than a "just friends" situation. My wife did the same thing and I tried to find every way in which it might be innocent. Unfortunately, it was not and it took me several months to find that out. Devastating. That kind of frenetic activity indicates the excitement of a new relationship. You could call her for her perspective. She may be willing to share.


Well I guess I don’t know it was everyday. At least 14 days out of the 3 weeks. Also, she has a boyfriend and he knew they were friends. He didn’t care. She didn’t hide it from him. My husband said he didn’t tell
Me until I asked because he knew I would overreact. And maybe I am...


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## GoingCrazy01

RWB said:


> Those appropriate boundaries can quickly turn into a mighty slippery slope IMO. Texting, lunch dates, and gym workouts can be all friendly and innocent right up to point where the panties hit the floor.


Yes and Thank god I know he didn’t go anywhere with her. He swears though they were just friends. He also texts a couple really old lady’s from work as well. They message him funny stuff sometimes. So maybe just maybe they all like to be friends and text each other...


----------



## GoingCrazy01

VermiciousKnid said:


> This is how it starts. You need to nip it in the bud now. Don't wait.


I did and he stopped months ago. He hasn’t tried to go to that gym, hasn’t tried to go to his main work office where she works, hasn’t messaged her and is really happy now. He seems relieved I didn’t leave. Always happy and smiling. And spending even more time with me then before and he was always around before. He swears he didn’t do anything wrong and I found a text message to his brother saying he never crossed the line and his brother said “ya you didn’t really do anything stupid so that’s good, she will forgive you”


----------



## Noble1

Sounds like things worked out fairly well. Your husband did all he could to assuage your concerns (including moving gyms which to me is a biggie).

That being said, despite your mentioned anxiety, your feelings twigged about something so do not discount that.

Enjoy the fact that his actions have shown you his "true" feelings. 

You can keep an eye out for things but hopefully not to a paranoid level.


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## GoingCrazy01

Noble1 said:


> Sounds like things worked out fairly well. Your husband did all he could to assuage your concerns (including moving gyms which to me is a biggie).
> 
> That being said, despite your mentioned anxiety, your feelings twigged about something so do not discount that.
> 
> Enjoy the fact that his actions have shown you his "true" feelings.
> 
> You can keep an eye out for things but hopefully not to a paranoid level.


He is doing everything he can to fix this. It’s just too bad I cat get over the trust issues now. I have always trusted him for 16 years. So, this is very hard for me. He said he was never hiding it. I did have his phone password and he had her as a contact. So maybe he wasn’t hiding it? Just seems odd he didn’t tell me. He said he wasn’t hiding it just wasn’t forthcoming with it :|


----------



## Quality

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Do you guys think I should contact this woman? My husband said it was ok. Just wondering if maybe I waited to long. It’s been months. Guessing she will think I am retarded contacting her months later when they don’t even talk anymore. And were only friends for 3 weeks in total. Stupid idea? Thought it might bring me some closure...


IF your husband was cheating with her he might give you permission to contact her presuming you won't and that even if you did, he'd warn her and she'd just match up her story with his. Making your contacting her a waste of time.

IF he's not talked to her and everything is as your husband claims, then it's really not necessary to contact her and just makes your husband feel less trusted.

The only contact I might suggest would be a text or email saying something like:

"I am so sorry to bother you and this is so embarrassing to even type out, but I've had some anxiety about your texts and conversations with my husband. I trust the simple story I've been told and love my husband dearly so to be clear, I'm not accusing you of any wrongdoing. I don't think anything happened between you two butI think it's inappropriate of my husband to have opposite-sex friends for weeks that I don't know about so this is about him and now you. I just need to ask you woman to woman and privately {please don't tell my husband I even made this inquiry} whether you think my husband has an issue with proper marital boundaries or not? In other words, if you were me, would you be worried and|or how worried would you be on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being 'Sister, your husband is a snake'? 


DO NOT tell your husband you sent the email|text and just watch and see what happens.

I would have you hide a VAR {voice activated digital voice recorder} in your husband's car the day before you did this too. You want to KNOW if she calls him or texts him and most inappropriate phone calls between affair partners take place in cars. If you can watch his emails too that would be nice. Sometimes you can get into your spouse's email and set up a sub-routine where all sent and rec'd emails are simply copied to another email address {that only you have access to) as they occur. You might not ever access such email or, if you do, you won't have to often because you'll feel better just knowing you CAN check up on him. 

The point is - if your husband is a snake and your gut instincts are being triggered because something is actually amiss in your marriage, your husband isn't going to tell you the truth. You'll need to discover on your own and that is MUCH easier to do when you make your husband believe you trust him completely and aren't investigating anything or nervous|anxiety ridden about his behavior. IF your husband isn't cheating and telling you the truth, continually hounding and questioning him isn't helping either. 

If the woman texts|emails back that your problem is a 8, 9 or 10 -(or really anything higher than a 4) then come back here and talk about it. DO NOT CONFRONT HIM because it won't do you any good. Though you should probably immediately be prepared to text her back and ask the woman to PLEASE call you to explain, if she will, promising to leave her out of it and just get whatever info you can. This is about your husband's behavior and if this woman is willing to be honest with you and give you a straight evaluation I'd be nice as daisies to her. Based on her last text to him I'm thinking she had no intentions on him and thought it was wrong too. 

If the woman contacts your husband about it immediately, then she's probably a bigger problem than you are aware. The advantage of not telling him about it is that if he tells you he knows about it, it could have only been her that told him and you'd know they are still talking|texting which is inappropriate. 

If the woman doesn't respond, chews you out as crazy but doesn't contact your husband, give a full explanation or gives him a score of 1, 2 or 3 - I'd take that as PROBABLY good enough to believe the story but still encourage you to inspect what you expect secretly by snooping. They MIGHT be colluding. {sure not everything is an affair but sometimes people show up on infidelity forums for a reason}

Here's an article about snooping in marriage where an experienced marriage counselor says: "So snooping is reasonable, especially when there has been evidence of a budding romantic relationship outside of marriage". Sure this one might not appear to have reached that level but why not just rule it out by getting independent information first?

Snooping, is it wrong? Or is it the right thing to do in marriage?


Once you rule out an affair, then you can go about working respectively with your husband on boundaries and transparency such that you won't have the need to check up on him or feel anxiety ridden --- something he should want to accomplish.


----------



## JayDee7

If he stopped the texting months ago and does not see her anymore, then let it go. But keep an eye on the situation. I think a married man can be friends with a woman, but why would he want to be? He has his wife to talk to, he has his guy friends to talk to. When having a female friend it turns into a pseudo girlfriend, he may be attracted to her and as long as he doesn’t make a move it’s alright I guess. She will tell him things about her life and he will share things about his, both will develop some sort of slight attraction, both will think he/she is a great girl/Guy. Usually women do not make the first move, but if she does he may fall into temptation and give in easily. I do not think a married woman should have a male friend, men usually make the first move, and if there is already attraction and a friendship she may fall for the temptation. Just my opinion.


----------



## Married but Happy

If you still distrust him after all he's done, then you may be overly paranoid and should just divorce him. IMO, you don't deserve him.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Married but Happy said:


> If you still distrust him after all he's done, then you may be overly paranoid and should just divorce him. IMO, you don't deserve him.[/QUOT
> 
> I really appreciate your honesty. And I wonder if you are right. He does not know this still bothers me. I keep it to myself and try and be happy. I am extremely lucky to have this man. I have never been jealous or paranoid ever. Until this. It just came out of the blue and has never happened before. I am trying hard to figure out what is anziety and what is not. I mean am I overreacting because of the mental issue I have or would other people see this as a deal breaker. I go back and forth all day. Just trusting to figure out what a normal thinking person would think of this situation. Lol


----------



## Married but Happy

@GoingCrazy01, I'm not trying to be mean, but I think you should be concerned that this is becoming an obsessive quest, you WANT to find something, and you won't be satisfied until you DO find something (or perhaps simply _interpret_ something innocent as evidence of wrongdoing). If he finds out, he might be highly offended and it could destroy what sounds like a good relationship where he has done everything right that you can reasonably expect. Do you think some IC might help resolve this so you can let it go?

Unless you have found proof, you may be harming yourself and your relationship.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Married but Happy said:


> @GoingCrazy01, I'm not trying to be mean, but I think you should be concerned that this is becoming an obsessive quest, you WANT to find something, and you won't be satisfied until you DO find something (or perhaps simply _interpret_ something innocent as evidence of wrongdoing). If he finds out, he might be highly offended and it could destroy what sounds like a good relationship where he has done everything right that you can reasonably expect. Do you think some IC might help resolve this so you can let it go?
> 
> Unless you have found proof, you may be harming yourself and your relationship.


I know you are not trying to be mean. I came here for honest opinions. That is what I want. My head is clouded right now. To be honest it’s been almost 6 months since I cut them off. I have checked his phone, email and everything else everyday for the last almost 6 months and have found nothing. I am starting to think this is all I’m my head and I am getting a little obsessed with finding something. Even though I don’t want to find anything! Maybe I am hunting to find nothing! Everyday I find nothing I feel better! I do agree that I nee to get over this. I will never find anyone as good as him. He is a keeper. Well besides this issue, which I am not sure is even a huge deal to begin with... my brain just won’t shut it out. It’s constant thinking of this all day every single day for all these months. It just won’t go away. I have a scheduled appointment with a therapist soon!


----------



## sokillme

TRy said:


> But most cheaters did not look to have an affair, they just had weak boundaries that allowed feeling to develop that led to them having an affair. If there were good marital boundaries in place, there is a better chance that they would not have cheated.


I believe sometimes this is true but even so what is missing in the description is the lack of guilt the empathy that they show. There are plenty of empathetic people who just couldn't go through with it not matter what because the lying and the guilt would be too much. Just the common loyalty wouldn't allow it. The people who do this are not caught in a situation and lose control it's that there is a character flaw that allows them to do it without feeling the crushing guilt that others would. 

Besides that most of them know exactly what they are doing, they know they are pushing boundaries they just don't care at the time. They enjoy the attention too much and feel entitled. 

You make it sound like they wake up and are in the middle of an affair which is not true it's a long string of pushing with on going small betrayals of their spouses. Many of them love the whole thing, they love the danger and the naughtiness of it all. 

They are not victims of circumstances but active perpetrators.


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## sokillme

GoingCrazy01 said:


> I did and he stopped months ago. He hasn’t tried to go to that gym, hasn’t tried to go to his main work office where she works, hasn’t messaged her and is really happy now. He seems relieved I didn’t leave. Always happy and smiling. And spending even more time with me then before and he was always around before. He swears he didn’t do anything wrong and I found a text message to his brother saying he never crossed the line and his brother said “ya you didn’t really do anything stupid so that’s good, she will forgive you”


Judge him for what he did, which was exchange phone numbers because that seems to be all he did. That is not good but not a deal breaker. Have you had marriage counseling?


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## cashcratebob

Long time lurker, but this topic resonated with me so I wanted to reach out. Your story is very similar to my own which I have not posted. @GoingCrazy01 , I just want to make two points. First, don't discount your gut/intuition, that seems to be pretty standard advice from this site. It seems like he might have violated your "norms" or non normal boundaries. No deal breakers, but they beg the question in you as to why? Second, if you can't let it go, make sure you are being honest with yourself as to why; as some have alluded to, there is something about the situation that is still bothering you possibly. For me, it was that I couldn't be sure that the few text messages sent that I saw (between my wife and some guy, which were benign but also not the "norm") were the only ones, since she was deleting them. Third, it can turn into an obsession, it seems it has. Again, this resonates with me, I am very empathetic, as I am sure others are. What to do? figure out what is still bothering your regarding his actions and the questions you still have. Decide if they are worth asking. 

Finally, does he have a Facebook and if so, do you have access to it? It is very easy to clear search history but it would be just another thing to check. Probably just feeding the beast though.


----------



## TRy

sokillme said:


> You make it sound like they wake up and are in the middle of an affair which is not true it's a long string of pushing with on going small betrayals of their spouses. Many of them love the whole thing, they love the danger and the naughtiness of it all.


 I did not make it sound like "they wake up and are in the middle of an affair", because that is not how it works. What really happens is that weak boundaries let them take baby steps where they can rationalize each step as not being that big a deal, until they get emotionally involved with the future affair partner and start to take the deliberate steps that you are talking about. A case in point is when the OP's husband told the OP that although he did not lie about it once the OP found out, he did admit to deliberately not telling her about it because he knew that it would make her upset. The other woman even told the OP's husband to tell the OP right from the start. Had they discussed martial boundaries where both were required to tell their spouse about opposite sex friends, the act of deliberately not telling the OP about this friend would have been a violation of these boundaries that could not have been rationalized by the OP's husband. Based on how the husband acted after the OP found out, I am guessing that the OP's husband would have followed the boundaries had they been clearly specified rather than implied based on years of marriage.


----------



## sokillme

TRy said:


> I did not make it sound like "they wake up and are in the middle of an affair", because that is not how it works. What really happens is that weak boundaries let them take baby steps where they can rationalize each step as not being that big a deal, until they get emotionally involved with the future affair partner and start to take the deliberate steps that you are talking about. A case in point is when the OP's husband told the OP that although he did not lie about it once the OP found out, he did admit to deliberately not telling her about it because he knew that it would make her upset. The other woman even told the OP's husband to tell the OP right from the start. Had they discussed martial boundaries where both were required to tell their spouse about opposite sex friends, the act of deliberately not telling the OP about this friend would have been a violation of these boundaries that could not have been rationalized by the OP's husband. Based on how the husband acted after the OP found out, I am guessing that the OP's husband would have followed the boundaries had they been clearly specified rather than implied based on years of marriage.


Why do you think he would follow the boundaries? Why do you assume he didn't know that what he was doing was inappropriate and in this case he just decided to do it anyway.


----------



## TRy

GoingCrazy01 said:


> It just won’t go away. I have a scheduled appointment with a therapist soon!


"It won't go away" because you told us that "My husband said he didn’t tell
Me until I asked because he knew I would overreact", leading you to legitimately wonder what else has he not told you that he knew would make you upset. Remember, you only know what you knew enough to ask questions about. What questions do you not know enough to ask?


----------



## GoingCrazy01

cashcratebob said:


> Long time lurker, but this topic resonated with me so I wanted to reach out. Your story is very similar to my own which I have not posted. @GoingCrazy01 , I just want to make two points. First, don't discount your gut/intuition, that seems to be pretty standard advice from this site. It seems like he might have violated your "norms" or non normal boundaries. No deal breakers, but they beg the question in you as to why? Second, if you can't let it go, make sure you are being honest with yourself as to why; as some have alluded to, there is something about the situation that is still bothering you possibly. For me, it was that I couldn't be sure that the few text messages sent that I saw (between my wife and some guy, which were benign but also not the "norm") were the only ones, since she was deleting them. Third, it can turn into an obsession, it seems it has. Again, this resonates with me, I am very empathetic, as I am sure others are. What to do? figure out what is still bothering your regarding his actions and the questions you still have. Decide if they are worth asking.
> 
> Finally, does he have a Facebook and if so, do you have access to it? It is very easy to clear search history but it would be just another thing to check. Probably just feeding the beast though.


Hello. It is really hard when you don’t have all the answers. Not having the texts to see sucks. But I can’t get them back. He does not have a Facebook account. It has been deactivated for years but I did reactivate it and he hasn’t been on it. I believe he isn’t doing it now but just want to know exactly what happened and confirm they were just friends. Just can’t cause I can’t get the messages. Most of me believes him as it was only s couple weeks but I would have still liketo see them! Maybe for closure? But your right, at this point it is unhealthy how much time I spend thinking and analyzing this over and over. It sucks.


----------



## cashcratebob

@GoingCrazy01 it sucks because it was very different from his standard MO. I feel you. Time will get you to a point where you don't care I suspect. 

Being totally honest, based solely on reading others posts from other folks and speculating on outcomes and then having them confirmed, I would say that the situation sounds like a work "crush" (I figure that is a loaded term especially here) that you put the kibosh on it. It may not have turned into anything damaging but as others have said, this is how it starts. 

I hate posting this cause I don't think it is going to help your worry. But it is too similar to my own situation for me not share what I suspect.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

cashcratebob said:


> @GoingCrazy01 it sucks because it was very different from his standard MO. I feel you. Time will get you to a point where you don't care I suspect.
> 
> Being totally honest, based solely on reading others posts from other folks and speculating on outcomes and then having them confirmed, I would say that the situation sounds like a work "crush" (I figure that is a loaded term especially here) that you put the kibosh on it. It may not have turned into anything damaging but as others have said, this is how it starts.
> 
> I hate posting this cause I don't think it is going to help your worry. But it is too similar to my own situation for me not share what I suspect.


You may be right. And we can’t help who we crush on. He agrees he made a mistake but says nothing happened emotionally and that he hardly even knows her. He didn’t think it was a big deal he said. But I agree, I don’t think he would have accepted her number when she offered it had he not had an attraction. He did however tell me that he confirmed with her that they were just friends. Not sure if thats really good or not though.


----------



## cashcratebob

@GoingCrazy01 AAAAAAAHHH!! I am going to say it and I know it won't help, but I am going to ask it anyways. Why did they need to talk about their relationship status? Why would that come up? I have female work friends and that has never ever come up, we just talk about work/life/politics whatever, not our relationship. I am socially inept at times, but is that something that needs to be addressed in a work environment? I don't know. Because they introduced texting, they needed to set boundaries I guess? Just me, but "just friends" status should be pretty clear without ever actually having to say "just friends".


----------



## GoingCrazy01

cashcratebob said:


> @GoingCrazy01 AAAAAAAHHH!! I am going to say it and I know it won't help, but I am going to ask it anyways. Why did they need to talk about their relationship status? Why would that come up? I have female work friends and that has never ever come up, we just talk about work/life/politics whatever, not our relationship. I am socially inept at times, but is that something that needs to be addressed in a work environment? I don't know. Because they introduced texting, they needed to set boundaries I guess? Just me, but "just friends" status should be pretty clear without ever actually having to say "just friends".


He said he just wanted to make sure there was no misunderstandings. But who knows. Doesn’t make sense to me either.


----------



## Sports Fan

I am of the firm belief that there should not be any opposite sex friends in a relationship. Affairs don't start with people jumping into bed together. They get started as friends, coffee and lunch dates, conversations etc, etc, then before you know it you have an affair on your hands.

Your husband definately had bad intentions. You probably caught an Emotional Affair before it turned Physical.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Sports Fan said:


> I am of the firm belief that there should not be any opposite sex friends in a relationship. Affairs don't start with people jumping into bed together. They get started as friends, coffee and lunch dates, conversations etc, etc, then before you know it you have an affair on your hands.
> 
> Your husband definately had bad intentions. You probably caught an Emotional Affair before it turned Physical.


Say it was an emotional affair even though he says it wasn’t and that he hardly knows her. Do you think that would be a serious enough offence to consider divorce? Sometimes I think yes and then I change my mind to no....


----------



## Sports Fan

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Say it was an emotional affair even though he says it wasn’t and that he hardly knows her. Do you think that would be a serious enough offence to consider divorce? Sometimes I think yes and then I change my mind to no....


Do not believe what he says. Cheaters will always try and minimise what happened and withhold the truth. In this case he is trying to mask that he had bad intentions.

Regarding your scenario i believe he is not at the worst end of betrayals so yes he does deserve 1 chance to redeem himself. However you must enforce some real consequences for his behaviour so he is aware that this type of indescretion will never be tolerated again.

That's my opinion however the choice is yours as it is your life and marriage. I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

TRy said:


> "It won't go away" because you told us that "My husband said he didn’t tell
> Me until I asked because he knew I would overreact", leading you to legitimately wonder what else has he not told you that he knew would make you upset. Remember, you only know what you knew enough to ask questions about. What questions do you not know enough to ask?


 A.k.a. Lies of omission and they are just as bad if not worse than blatant outright lies because you never have a chance to give them the "sniff" test. BTDT.
If you truly are considering divorce over this,and don't think you can get past it, ask him to take a polygraph test to confirm that they are just friends and there was no other pretext.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> Not me. I couldn't live the life of ball & chain just because I'm married. I do believe in social responsibilities and so does my wife. You can cage a person not to do what you don't want them to do, still they will find a way.
> 
> My filosophy has always been that of hands free. If you cheat on me I eventually will know (cheaters almost always, sooner or later get caught.), Is just a matter of time. Even very young inexperienced people most of the time they catch their cheating partner. I never had the experience, but I do know myself and my limits. I'm too proud of myself, and secure enough in my masculinity to know that if she cheats is not a matter of when, who, why, where, only that she did. Game over, marriage over. No wimpy, spineless, pick me game for me. Shock & awe would be my response. So far in my life I've been lucky in that respect. I also am a true believer of the "trust but verify" axiom. I'm always subconsciously, analyzing data in my family's Dynamics.
> 
> So no, no social restrictions in my relationship with my wife in order to keep it loyal. I wouldn't like to make partner with a woman were she, I, or both have to muzzle each other in order to keep us from straying. That would be insulting to me.


Having sensible wise boundaries isn't muzzling anyone. Its being aware of the dangers and protecting the marriage.


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## Diana7

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Say it was an emotional affair even though he says it wasn’t and that he hardly knows her. Do you think that would be a serious enough offence to consider divorce? Sometimes I think yes and then I change my mind to no....


I wouldn't consider divorce, but he does need to make sure it doesn't happen again.


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## pragmaticGoddess

It sound like this was the first that your husband has done something like this. 

In my opinion, I don't think this is in divorce territory yet. 

Have you experienced infidelity in the form of a parent's affair or having been previously cheated on? You might need to work out why you're having this insecurity/ anxiety. Are you seeking professional help for your anxiety?


----------



## FalCod

Rob_1 said:


> @FalCod: EXACTLY, your marriage mirrors mine almost to a tee when it comes to people outside the marriage. Specially me, since I'm the social butterfly, rather than my wife. I just can't fathom the level of mistrust in a lot of marriages. It only shows the level of insecurities that some people have.
> 
> Myself, I've been in the position a couple of times where younger (could have been my daughters), females coworkers that I had befriended, and developed a very good report due to compatibilities, had suddenly become extremely, suceptible emotionally due to failure in their relationships. I could of had easy picking with them, but I love my wife and cheating on her is in my mind out of the question. Sometimes, just the thought of doing that to her spookes me. I'm that loyal, but at the same time in the event of her cheating on me I would flip the switch, just as easily. I do recall time after the drama was over for one of this younger woman (I was her shoulder to cry on), that I told her " you know that I could had have you anytime, had I decided to do it while you were so distress and relying on me. She looked at me kind of a little ashamed and said yeah, you could had, I would had let you." But I always been a man of integrity when it comes to these matters. I never could Had taken advantage of them, even if I was single at the time. I'm saying this to show that there are people in this world that still have integrity and would not do the things we read in these forums. You as a mate have to have sufficient sense to gauge your mate and know what boundaries must exist in the relationship for it not to go south.


Because Rob_1 said that my situation was "EXACTLY" like his, I feel the need to clarify some difference. I would NEVER have the sort of discussion (or even thoughts) with a woman that he subsequently describes. It sounds creepy to me and any conversation even vaguely like that would make me so uncomfortable that I would immediately distance myself from that person.


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## Rhubarb

I know there are plenty of people who think it's OK for married people to be friends with people of the opposite sex, however I intentionally don't have any such friends. My definition of a friend is someone I have one on one time with in a social setting. A chat about something in the hallway at work is fine, however outside of work, stuff like texting is off limits. Note, I don't judge people who go by different standards than myself. These are just the rules that I keep for myself. 

As for your situation, it sounds like he simply has a different set of standards from yourself. However to be fair, he did comply with your requests. Getting a divorce over something like this seems a bit extreme baring any further incidents.


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## Satya

I think the board knows my stance on this one.

It hasn't changed and I would be surprised with myself if it ever does.

And this comes from a woman who formerly believed men and women can and should be friends. Maybe I had poor boundaries in my younger years compared to some forum members here who are OK with OS friendships, but my personal experience and observations tell me there are always emotional ties present. And that they complicate things.


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## SentHereForAReason

Diana7 said:


> Having sensible wise boundaries isn't muzzling anyone. Its being aware of the dangers and protecting the marriage.


So true! Another live and learn that I learned the hard way over the past year. I judged my attempt at boundaries by the response of my STBXW and retreated a bit instead of going through with them and meaning them no matter what because of the importance.


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## GoingCrazy01

I am working hard now with moving on. Thanks everyone for all your help! I have trusted this man for 16 years so maybe I have to keep trusting him to make the right choices. He shows me all the affection he can and spends all his free time with us. I am hoping I can get control of this anxiety and move on soon. Starting to think that months and months of freaking over this may have been over kil.....


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## WilliamM

The fact your husband did not tell you about it immediately, or even before they exchanged numbers, is very telling to me.

If he had two brain cells to rub together he had to know it would be of concern. The way to allay your concern would be to make certain you were fully aware of every communication he had with her, including his first exchange of numbers.

In my opinion he should have asked you beforehand if you were okay with it. If you had the option to veto the exchange, I bet you would have been quite comfortable with them exchanging numbers. 

My wife would never think of attempting to enforce anything on me. She is subservient to me. But I do discuss just such situations with her, and do show her every communication with all female co-workers. I believe I should, so I do.

Your husband didn't tell you about it. Very odd. And evasive after the fact. He feels guilty for some reason. Probably because he knows it is a little over the boundaries of propriety. Does not mean anything is going on. But I am sure he knew, and knows, it is over the line.


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## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> The fact your husband did not tell you about it immediately, or even before they exchanged numbers, is very telling to me.
> 
> If he had two brain cells to rub together he had to know it would be of concern. The way to allay your concern would be to make certain you were fully aware of every communication he had with her, including his first exchange of numbers.
> 
> In my opinion he should have asked you beforehand if you were okay with it. If you had the option to veto the exchange, I bet you would have been quite comfortable with them exchanging numbers.
> 
> My wife would never think of attempting to enforce anything on me. She is subservient to me. But I do discuss just such situations with her, and do show her every communication with all female co-workers. I believe I should, so I do.
> 
> Your husband didn't tell you about it. Very odd. And evasive after the fact. He feels guilty for some reason. Probably because he knows it is a little over the boundaries of propriety. Does not mean anything is going on. But I am sure he knew, and knows, it is over the line.


I agree with you. I am starting to believe he was just friends with her but had an attraction as well. That would be enough for him not to tell me. He could have lied though. When I asked who he was taking to he told me. He didn’t lie and say his brother or something. Should be get some credit for that? He also had her as a contact in his phone so he couldn’t of been trying to hide it that hard and he always left his phone out charging in the kitchen. So maybe him saying he wasn’t really trying to hide it could realistic?


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## WilliamM

Credit. Yes.

There is a long ways between feeling guilty because he knows he is over the line and it is a bit wrong, and intentionally trying to do really bad things.

He is feeling guilty. So he knows it was outside acceptable boundaries, either because he does have more feelings for her than he should, or because he knows he should have asked you about it first. 

But that doesn't mean he wants to hurt you. Like a kid stealing that bit of candy from the counter at the neighbors house, maybe. He knows he shouldn't, but it's just a little bit bad.

I doubt he is trying to start an affair behind your back.

The only problem is, as stupid as it sounds, that darn slippery slope sometimes starts with silly little toe over the line things. At this point yes, your husband just has his toe over the line. He knows it's over the line, and he isn't going to step any farther by hiding her contact or lying about who he is talking to.

And in spite of all the crying and misery here I do think not every little infraction leads to affairs.

In my wife's case, she went too far and had an affair, but I still think it doesn't always happen. I think lots of people dabble with improprieties and step back.


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## WilliamM

After all, the number of people here who have been betrayed is a high proportion of this population. But the number of people here is a very tiny, tiny portion of all marriages.

I can't believe all those marriages that don't have big problems never have a spouse who steps a bit out of line, and then feels guilty over that stolen bit of candy and behaves a little better after that.


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## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> Credit. Yes.
> 
> There is a long ways between feeling guilty because he knows he is over the line and it is a bit wrong, and intentionally trying to do really bad things.
> 
> He is feeling guilty. So he knows it was outside acceptable boundaries, either because he does have more feelings for her than he should, or because he knows he should have asked you about it first.
> 
> But that doesn't mean he wants to hurt you. Like a kid stealing that bit of candy from the counter at the neighbors house, maybe. He knows he shouldn't, but it's just a little bit bad.
> 
> I doubt he is trying to start an affair behind your back.
> 
> The only problem is, as stupid as it sounds, that darn slippery slope sometimes starts with silly little toe over the line things. At this point yes, your husband just has his toe over the line. He knows it's over the line, and he isn't going to step any farther by hiding her contact or lying about who he is talking to.
> 
> And in spite of all the crying and misery here I do think not every little infraction leads to affairs.
> 
> In my wife's case, she went too far and had an affair, but I still think it doesn't always happen. I think lots of people dabble with improprieties and step back.


I am sorry for your wife’s affair. I can’t even enshrine the hurt. I think you are right though. I don’t think he was going to step over any further. If he was trying to start an affair why tell me about it? All I can figure is he realized it was wrong. He knew I would be pissed but chose to tell me anyways because he wanted to be honest. I just can’t imagine him waiting 16 years to cheat. He would have done it by now I would think. I think he just got caught up in the attention from another woman and since they were not talking sexually or having an relationship he thought it wasnt the end of the world. However, he knows now that next time will be divorce. I will not live with dishonesty or lack of trust. I almost feel he still is trustworthy because he told me as soon as I asked. It was also only a couple weeks. He also volunteered the fact she went to his gym. I would have never known. He also said if I would start going the same time as him he would switch gyms and come with me. He can’t be that attached to her if he gave up his job, gym and his friend for me.


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## WilliamM

You sound like you are doing well.

I think your interpretations are good.

Except maybe about the timing thing. There is no rhyme or reason about when someone has an affair. My wife had an affair just after our 5th anniversary. Others after their 35th. Never seems to follow any pattern from what I can see.

Yes, your husband isn't hiding things in a way that makes it seem worse, which is good. Going to the gym together would be fun!

Be well.


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## MattMatt

Diana7 said:


> I would say that he was treading on thin ice and that had you not discovered it, it may have gone past being just friends. There is no need for a person to be texting an opposite sex work colleague at all. Its good that you discovered it and hopefully he is now aware of the dangers and of how you feel about it.
> I know so many affairs that started with being 'just friends' at work, so I am well aware of the dangers.


Really? I can think of a number of reasons. I texted with a female colleague about: Asking her boyfriend to give me a call about getting a fence repaired, having a tree trimmed, checking up if her horses were OK, checking on a work meeting, checking if she had heard from a mutual colleague, etc.


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## FalCod

When I look over this, the one thing that troubles me is the "keeping his phone clean" part. My wife and I each have a large number of friends of both genders and have never had any boundary issues. I think one of the things that contributes to our comfort with each other is our transparency. We each have access to each other's phones, e-mails, etc and neither of us deletes anything. If she wants to see who I texted about what, where I was at 3:33 PM on March 3, or whatever, she can do it and vice-versa. He probably wasn't doing that to hide anything, but it can easily give you the feeling that he is. 

The two of you have to decide what level of cross-gender interaction is appropriate. I do have a female friend that avoids being alone with men outside of work. On any days when our lunch walking/running group collapsed down to just the two of us, she always canceled. I respect that. It's how she and her husband choose to live their lives. My wife and I are closer to the opposite extreme. Not in anything like an "open" marriage sense, but just in that we don't really care about the gender of our friends. I think the important thing is to be on the same page, to be transparent, and to be trustful.

Cheaters are going to cheat. You won't stop them by trying to control them. You can reduce temptations to stray, but that is balanced by more restrictions on each others lives. I would hate to lose all the women friends that I have, but I could survive it. My wife's hobbies are very male dominated (woodworking, metalworking, electronics), so for me to restrict her from having male friends would be devastating. Everything in life is a balancing act. 

Be open. Be transparent. Have boundaries that you are both comfortable with. And when you do that, be trusting. Lack of trust in someone will erode their willingness to be trustworthy.


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## Harken Banks

MattMatt said:


> Really? I can think of a number of reasons. I texted with a female colleague about: Asking her boyfriend to give me a call about getting a fence repaired, having a tree trimmed, checking up if her horses were OK, checking on a work meeting, checking if she had heard from a mutual colleague, etc.


Bear in mind, they had just met and were texting daily like teenagers in love. This is not the long-time friend and neighbor thing. It sounds like she successfully cut it off. You may recall, this is exactly how my wife's affair started. Someone she did not previously know, met at a work event, frenetic texting and off to the races. I certainly text with friends' wives when they want to coordinate who is picking up whom or where we will meet for some kid or family oriented event or whatever. This is not that. This was budding infatuation, in my limited view.


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## MattMatt

Harken Banks said:


> Bear in mind, they had just met and were texting daily like teenagers in love. This is not the long-time friend and neighbor thing. It sounds like she successfully cut it off. You may recall, this is exactly how my wife's affair started. Someone she did not previously know, met at a work event, frenetic texting and off to the races. I certainly text with friends' wives when they want to coordinate who is picking up whom or where we will meet for some kid or family oriented event or whatever. This is not that. This was budding infatuation, in my limited view.


It is possible.

However we should acknowledge the fact that some texting will lead to affairs but some will not.


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## Harken Banks

Hell, I am texting this morning with a married woman I have known about 45 years. We coach in the same program. We are coordinating the program and how we manage the weather and program this morning. This is not that.


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## Diana7

MattMatt said:


> Really? I can think of a number of reasons. I texted with a female colleague about: Asking her boyfriend to give me a call about getting a fence repaired, having a tree trimmed, checking up if her horses were OK, checking on a work meeting, checking if she had heard from a mutual colleague, etc.


These are things that can be done in the many hours that you spend together at work.


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## WilliamM

They can also be done via text when someone happens to think of the issue.

I text female colleagues on occasion.

I show my phone to my wife any time I text any of my work colleagues after work hours, male or female. Mary doesn't ask, I just do it.

And then there are some jobs, like mine, that are so invasive of my time that no time is really considered outside work hours.


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## GoingCrazy01

Harken Banks said:


> Bear in mind, they had just met and were texting daily like teenagers in love. This is not the long-time friend and neighbor thing. It sounds like she successfully cut it off. You may recall, this is exactly how my wife's affair started. Someone she did not previously know, met at a work event, frenetic texting and off to the races. I certainly text with friends' wives when they want to coordinate who is picking up whom or where we will meet for some kid or family oriented event or whatever. This is not that. This was budding infatuation, in my limited view.


Ya your right. Maybe I should just divorce him before I get my heart broken again. Maybe it’s just not worth believing him.


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## Openminded

Once you become suspicious of your spouse's actions -- with or without cause (and you had cause IMO) -- it's difficult to let go. The truth is there's always opportunity for a spouse to cheat but few of us focus on that possibility until we have reason to. He's the only one who knows what really happened and you'll likely never know for certain. It's something you'll have to learn to live with. That's easier for some than others but people who stay (and I was one for decades) cope -- one way or the other.


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## GoingCrazy01

Openminded said:


> Once you become suspicious of your spouse's actions -- with or without cause (and you had cause IMO) -- it's difficult to let go. The truth is there's always opportunity for a spouse to cheat but few of us focus on that possibility until we have reason to. He's the only one who knows what really happened and you'll likely never know for certain. It's something you'll have to learn to live with. That's easier for some than others but people who stay (and I was one for decades) cope -- one way or the other.


Ya that’s the problem. I don’t want to just cope with it. I want my life back. Even if that mess leaving him. One day I think I can move on cause he didn’t cheat and the next day I am so mad I don’t want to be here anymore. I know he didn’t physically cheat. I also know that her boyfriend knew they were friends. But I don’t want to live with questions for the rest of my life. It’s just not worth it.


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## Openminded

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Ya that’s the problem. I don’t want to just cope with it. I want my life back. Even if that mess leaving him. One day I think I can move on cause he didn’t cheat and the next day I am so mad I don’t want to be here anymore. I know he didn’t physically cheat. I also know that her boyfriend knew they were friends. But I don’t want to live with questions for the rest of my life. It’s just not worth it.


My husband swore they were just friends. I didn't believe that but I stayed. Several decades later I found proof they were in contact again (or maybe never stopped) and that it went way beyond friendship. I divorced him. My only regret is that I didn't do that when my gut first said get out. 

You always take a chance when you stay. You're betting it will work and sometimes it does. But obviously there are no guarantees. I believed my husband when he said he would never give me cause to doubt him again and I paid a heavy price for doing so. I don't recommend the life I led. It's why I'm now a cynic. 

Whether you go or stay you don't get the life back that you had before. That innocence is gone forever. There were many times that I wished I hadn't found out. But I did.


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## GoingCrazy01

Openminded said:


> My husband swore they were just friends. I didn't believe that but I stayed. Several decades later I found proof they were in contact again (or maybe never stopped) and that it went way beyond friendship. I divorced him. My only regret is that I didn't do that when my gut first said get out.
> 
> You always take a chance when you stay. You're betting it will work and sometimes it does. But obviously there are no guarantees. I believed my husband when he said he would never give me cause to doubt him again and I paid a heavy price for doing so. I don't recommend the life I led. It's why I'm now a cynic.
> 
> Whether you go or stay you don't get the life back that you had before. That innocence is gone forever. There were many times that I wished I hadn't found out. But I did.


I do know for a fact there was nothing physical. I just wonder if this could have been an emotional affair. But it was only a few weeks in total so not sure if that’s enough time for an emotional affair to happen. The thing is that what if I leave and it was nothing? Just like he says. Then I have destroyed my marriage over nothing. The most it was for sure was texting. Also, the fact that she told him to tell me leads me in the direction that they were just friends. Also the fact that her boyfriend knew makes me think it was innocent. But at the same time what the hell could they have been texting about 30 times a day? I do know he texts all of his friends pointless crap everyday and also texts a few older women sometimes and I am not bothered by that. Just can’t make up my mind. I need to decide once and for all if this could have been a 3 week emotional affair or if they were just friends. I should have contacted this woman months ago and I didn’t. He told me to a few times. I also should have spoke to her when he brought me to the work function and instead I didn’t. Noe it’s probably too late to do that without looking like an idiot.


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## WilliamM

I doubt you can ever be innocent again.

But that was just an illusion. Perhaps a part of growing up is realizing life just isn't like that. It's just growing up.

My wife is rife with problems. But we're happy together, because I know she is and can't help it. We cope. Some people have been here with far worse problems. Some of their spouses have abandoned them because those spouses can't deal with the trauma and other issues. I doubt those people ever recapture innocence. Certainly some of the people who have suffered the horrors I have read could never recapture innocence.

My wife suffered significant traumas in her childhood. She has somehow reset her memory and managed to forget most of what happened to her after remembering for a while, but there are many consequences anyway. She is much better than she was, but I know she is still badly damaged. She cannot recapture innocence no matter how hard she may try.

We grow strong or we limp forever. Mary has grown strong. Warped, permanently mentally ill, but strong. There is no hope for a cure for her. We cope.

There is no fairy tale.

You are growing up. Life is like this.


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## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> I doubt you can ever be innocent again.
> 
> But that was just an illusion. Perhaps a part of growing up is realizing life just isn't like that. It's just growing up.
> 
> My wife is rife with problems. But we're happy together, because I know she is and can't help it. We cope. Some people have been here with far worse problems. Some of their spouses have abandoned them because those spouses can't deal with the trauma and other issues. I doubt those people ever recapture innocence. Certainly some of the people who have suffered the horrors I have read could never recapture innocence.
> 
> My wife suffered significant traumas in her childhood. She has somehow reset her memory and managed to forget most of what happened to her after remembering for a while, but there are many consequences anyway. She is much better than she was, but I know she is still badly damaged. She cannot recapture innocence no matter how hard she may try.
> 
> We grow strong or we limp forever. Mary has grown strong. Warped, permanently mentally ill, but strong. There is no hope for a cure for her. We cope.
> 
> There is no fairy tale.
> 
> You are growing up. Life is like this.


Very true. Maybe every successful marriage has at least one obstacle they must overcome. I just can’t handle the thought of leaving and then finding out it was all in head the whole time. Especially since he has never done anything wrong in all these years. Why can’t I just trust him this once?


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## GoingCrazy01

Harken Banks said:


> They only knew each other 3 weeks and were texting each other every day for at least two of those? That is zero to 60 in a hurry. I think you can be confident this was more than a "just friends" situation. My wife did the same thing and I tried to find every way in which it might be innocent. Unfortunately, it was not and it took me several months to find that out. Devastating. That kind of frenetic activity indicates the excitement of a new relationship. You could call her for her perspective. She may be willing to share.


It is odd with daily texting but he texts all his friends daily so not sure. I do know for a fact he never went anyplace with her. So I know there was no physical affair. So I am just left with the possibility of either a friendship or a 3 week emotional affair. If I believe what my husband says he swears her boyfriend knew about their friendship and would be sitting beside her while they texted at times. But, can I believe him? Not sure!


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## WilliamM

Trust is a funny thing.

My wife panics if I ask her a question. She does not want to lie to me, but she panics because she desperately needs to figure out why I asked so she can think of how to best answer to make me happy. The idea of just saying the truth never enters her mind. She will stand there, her mind racing with questions about why did I ask, feverishly trying to think of the best possible answer. She knows it's wrong to lie, but she can't just tell the truth. If she answers, it is certainly a lie. but she knows how wrong it is to lie. If I make the mistake of asking a question, which I only do by accident, and she catches herself before she just blurts out some lie, she will freeze. Then she starts shaking. Then, she cries. If I don't address it quickly after that, she will end up on the floor crying her heart out.

I used to say her counseling started in '80 but we have been sorting out our history. I wasn't able to force her to go to counseling until 1984. Which rapidly escalated to a highly qualified psychologist, and within a month to a psychiatrist. She was diagnosed and passed to another psychiatrist who specialized in hypnotherapy. The Childhood Sexual Abuse she suffered started when she was 9 years old. When she was 11 years old some church elders were informed Mary was sexually attracted to girls. That was in 1967. She was turned over to the Pentecostal Church for Conversion Therapy. They shamed and berated her, and they beat her terribly, day after day, week after week, for months, until she forgot sex even existed. She was in therapy from 1984 to 1991. In '91 she recovered these memories, and decided she didn't need any more counseling.

My little girl suffered panic attacks since we got married. She would run and hide in a closet, trembling and unable to function. We realized it was when I tried to get her to think about sex, accept a more creative role in sex. So I assumed all responsibility for our sex life. After Mary recovered the memory of the shaming, the beatings, the torture they subjected her to, what they call Conversion Therapy, she was cured of her panic attacks. She has never suffered another panic attack. She has managed to selectively forget those months of torture. But she remembers who she is, now.

I could have chosen to abandon Mary. She had an affair in 1978. She's a pathological liar. But I can never, will never, abandon her. 

It took me over 2 years to come to terms with her affair. But I never considered abandoning her over it. 

We do wish you well.

Please realize, time might help. Also... Mary works hard every day to make me feel loved. She really does. I just needed to give her the chance to.


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## Married but Happy

Bottom line, what if it was a very short EA? Is that worth ending your marriage, given all he's done to move past this? What will make this suspicion - you have no proof - of sufficient weight to leave? If it's not worth leaving over, then it comes down to YOU learning to let this go - he's done ALL the appropriate work so far, according to what you've said, whether or not he did anything wrong.


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## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> Trust is a funny thing.
> 
> My wife panics if I ask her a question. She does not want to lie to me, but she panics because she desperately needs to figure out why I asked so she can think of how to best answer to make me happy. The idea of just saying the truth never enters her mind. She will stand there, her mind racing with questions about why did I ask, feverishly trying to think of the best possible answer. She knows it's wrong to lie, but she can't just tell the truth. If she answers, it is certainly a lie. but she knows how wrong it is to lie. If I make the mistake of asking a question, which I only do by accident, and she catches herself before she just blurts out some lie, she will freeze. Then she starts shaking. Then, she cries. If I don't address it quickly after that, she will end up on the floor crying her heart out.
> 
> I used to say her counseling started in '80 but we have been sorting out our history. I wasn't able to force her to go to counseling until 1984. Which rapidly escalated to a highly qualified psychologist, and within a month to a psychiatrist. She was diagnosed and passed to another psychiatrist who specialized in hypnotherapy. The Childhood Sexual Abuse she suffered started when she was 9 years old. When she was 11 years old some church elders were informed Mary was sexually attracted to girls. That was in 1967. She was turned over to the Pentecostal Church for Conversion Therapy. They shamed and berated her, and they beat her terribly, day after day, week after week, for months, until she forgot sex even existed. She was in therapy from 1984 to 1991. In '91 she recovered these memories, and decided she didn't need any more counseling.
> 
> My little girl suffered panic attacks since we got married. She would run and hide in a closet, trembling and unable to function. We realized it was when I tried to get her to think about sex, accept a more creative role in sex. So I assumed all responsibility for our sex life. After Mary recovered the memory of the shaming, the beatings, the torture they subjected her to, what they call Conversion Therapy, she was cured of her panic attacks. She has never suffered another panic attack. She has managed to selectively forget those months of torture. But she remembers who she is, now.
> 
> I could have chosen to abandon Mary. She had an affair in 1978. She's a pathological liar. But I can never, will never, abandon her.
> 
> It took me over 2 years to come to terms with her affair. But I never considered abandoning her over it.
> 
> We do wish you well.
> 
> Please realize, time might help. Also... Mary works hard every day to make me feel loved. She really does. I just needed to give her the chance to.


Wow. Your wife has been through a lot. Which must be so hard on you as well. I am actually very glad you never abandoned her. You are a good man. Makes me want to be a better person as well. It must take a very strong person to help her through all of this. Until now I could always say it was me and him to the end. But now I question it even though he says there was never any question. He was never going anywhere and this woman never tried to take him from me. I would love to get back to the forever feeling like you have. Just not sure if it’s possible at the moment.


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## GoingCrazy01

Married but Happy said:


> Bottom line, what if it was a very short EA? Is that worth ending your marriage, given all he's done to move past this? What will make this suspicion - you have no proof - of sufficient weight to leave? If it's not worth leaving over, then it comes down to YOU learning to let this go - he's done ALL the appropriate work so far, according to what you've said, whether or not he did anything wrong.


Yes he had done everything. I asked him if he was doing it cause he felt guilty and he said no I just wanted these back to the way they were. He says the very worst thing that happened was he didn’t tell me until I asked. And your right. I have more evidence stating he didn’t have any type of affair than I do that he did have an affair. 
He never went anywhere with her,
She told him to tell me about her,
Her boyfriend knew, 
My husband told be before I found out on my own and told me I could contact her, 
He convinced me to go to a work function where she was. 
The only thing that suspects the emotional affair is the hiding of the messages until I asked and the fact that he deletes all of his messages. Not just the ones from her though. But in all honesty I do over react about everything. It’s very true.


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## WilliamM

I am not surprised it's not possible at the moment. 

As I said, it took me 2 years to begin to think Mary and I were going to be able to be happy together again. 

It can't happen quickly. Don't rush. 

Yes, Mary has been through a lot. She amazes me. It's odd to think about, to me. The order of discovery is her affair, followed by lies, and more lies... two years of pure hell, and then I was accepting she just couldn't tell the truth but she hadn't been to the shrink yet. Then she went and got certified, as the saying goes, and then I found out about the Childhood Sexual Assault. And that was followed up with them telling me there was some deeper trauma they couldn't uncover!

Actually I felt pretty rotten about how I treated her for those two years already, and then I felt worse after hearing about some of her history, and her diagnosis really took the wind out of my sails. She was sure I would leave her. She was on the floor crying in the shrinks office, and all I could think of was how could I ever make up to her for the years I was so cruel to her.

Give yourself time. You cannot expect to feel good for a long time.

But Mary sets my soul on fire. Just thinking about her... she owns my soul.

You can get there. If your husband truly wants to get there with you.


----------



## 86857

*YOU'RE STARTING TO BLAME YOURSELF.* Don't! This is ALL down to your H. You're not over-reacting. Any spouse would feel the same. 
After months of pain, it's time to talk turkey. 
Here's a letter I'd give to him (a conversation can go in all sorts of directions & get heated).

_Dear H
Don't ever take me for a fool. I have some questions. I want answers. I want the truth and you only have ONE CHANCE.

You're fobbing me off by saying 'the only thing you did wrong was not telling me'. You did a lot more wrong & need to take responsibility for it. 
Saying I could contact her & getting her to meet me means nothing. She would deny it no matter what. Saying her bf knew means nothing either. Did she say, "I met a guy. We see each other at the gym & we send up to 30 texts daily?" All the above stuff is just damage control. 

You didn't tell me when you met her in the first place at the gym. You exchanged numbers. Why? Who asked to exchange numbers?
Why did you become such good friends so quickly that you started sending so many texts daily? 
Did you get women's numbers & begun friendships with them behind my back before? I'm shocked that I now have to ask that. 

You continued with daily texts for the next few weeks behind my back. Why? 
Don't say it wasn't important - it was. Don't tell me you 'forgot' because you didn't. 

Why so many texts & what were you talking about? 
Most people don't deleting their texts. Ask if she still has yours & if so I want to see them. 

She knew you were hiding the friendship from me because she said you should tell me about it. 
So you were hiding it deliberately. Why? 

I think you met & there was an instant attraction which is why you exchanged numbers. The texts started immediately & I assume you were meeting at the gym too. You didn't tell me because you knew I'd be upset & would stop it which is what happened. But you were so attracted that you didn't want to stop it. So you didn't tell me. You knew what you were doing was wrong.

You had an emotional affair. Google it. It's just as bad as a physical affair because the trust was broken. You lied to me about about your friendship with another woman by non-disclosure. 

How would you feel if I did that? Just as I do, upset, confused and angry, for months now. 

I want truthful answers to all the above questions. Don't fob me off with a bunch of 'it meant nothing' & 'nothing happened'. 
You have one chance. If I discover you lied, I'll throw you out the same day. 

If you were attracted to her, you need to admit it. You need to tell me everything that happened. 
If there's anything else about it I don't know, I need to know. 
I also need to know if you have done something like this before. 

If you do, I think there's a way though for us. You also need to tell me if you have any problems with our marriage._


----------



## Harken Banks

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Ya your right. Maybe I should just divorce him before I get my heart broken again. Maybe it’s just not worth believing him.


Take it with a grain of salt. It is your life. I offered my view. You can read my thread to see how the story ends. I think it is pathetic that your husband was so quickly sucked into virtual affair. Maybe this amounts to a wake up call for both of you. That seems like the best outcome. Oh well. Take care.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Thankyou everyone for your input. I have weighed everything out and have decided to trust him just this once based on the following: 
He told me he was friends with her. I did not catch him talking to her;
He stopped when I asked him to and switched gyms; 
He hasn’t texted her in 5 months; 
He has never gone out without me so I know he didn’t touch her; 
They were only friends for a couple weeks. I don’t think that is enough time for him to be in an emotional affair with her; 
He spends all his time with me currently and is always trying to make family plans; 
I have never had a reason to not trust his word before and it’s been 16 years; 
I found messages between him and his brother saying he never wanted her and never touched her; 
Found another message from July stating he never crossed the line;
He brought me to a work function and she was there. He didn’t seem to care at all; 
I spend a lot of time with other people from his work at the gym. He doesn’t care and none of them have mentioned anything. Gossip is big in work areas;
My gut tells me he is sorry. He said he was sorry and that he made a small mistake. He said he believes men and women can be friends but he will not make anymore female friends;
I have searched all computers and phones for the last 2 years and found nothing else. Nothing at all;
Made him message her months ago to say we can’t text after work hours and that he should have told me about their friendship from the beginning. She responded with I told you to be honest in the first place. Sounds innocent to me right? 
With all of these facts and the fact that he gave up their friendship so easily I have decided not to destroy my marriage and hurt my child. If this happens again I will leave but I do not think it will. I think he learned his lesson! So excited to finally move on and be happy again! 
Thankyou all for your help!


----------



## GoingCrazy01

With these facts. What would you decide to do?


----------



## TRy

GoingCrazy01 said:


> With these facts. What would you decide to do?


 I would do much the same as you did. You told him to stop, and he did. He said it was a mistake, and said that he was sorry. You put him on notice that you mean business, and he took it seriously. You caught it quickly, is was probably not physical, and only lightly emotional. Most cheated on spouses in the infidelity section would give their eye teeth if this were the case with their spouse. Good luck and best wishes.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

TRy said:


> I would do much the same as you did. You told him to stop, and he did. He said it was a mistake, and said that he was sorry. You put him on notice that you mean business, and he took it seriously. You caught it quickly, is was probably not physical, and only lightly emotional. Most cheated on spouses in the infidelity section would give their eye teeth if this were the case with their spouse. Good luck and best wishes.


Thank you. That is a good way of putting it. Lightly emotional. I do believe he did have some type of mini crush on her. Just excitement that a woman gave him her number to be friends. He didn’t ask for the number but I think he enjoyed having the attention. It sucks for me but he is only human. He is not perfect. I am sure we have all craved attention from someone else other than our wife’s or husbands at one point. At least enjoyed the attention.


----------



## TRy

GoingCrazy01 said:


> That is a good way of putting it. Lightly emotional.


 Based on you stating that "That is a good way of putting it. Lightly emotional." I will officially be the first person on TAM to coin the term "emotional affair light" (EAL). :smthumbup:


----------



## GoingCrazy01

TRy said:


> Based on you stating that "That is a good way of putting it. Lightly emotional." I will officially be the first person on TAM to coin the term "emotional affair light" (EAL). :smthumbup:


That’s perfect! It will make some people feel better their husband or wife had an emotional affair light than a emotional affair heavy.!


----------



## FalCod

GoingCrazy01 said:


> With these facts. What would you decide to do?


What would I do? I'd tell him that the big problem was hiding/deleting the texts. In the future, I'd tell him to be open and transparent but given that, it was perfectly OK to have female friends. What is not OK is treating them any differently when you aren't there than he would if you were there.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

FalCod said:


> What would I do? I'd tell him that the big problem was hiding/deleting the texts. In the future, I'd tell him to be open and transparent but given that, it was perfectly OK to have female friends. What is not OK is treating them any differently when you aren't there than he would if you were there.


Great advice! Thankyou


----------



## WilliamM

We are, all of us, only human.

While I nearly always say maybe, on this I will be absolute.

We are all only human.

Be well.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> We are, all of us, only human.
> 
> While I nearly always say maybe, on this I will be absolute.
> 
> We are all only human.
> 
> Be well.


I love this! Thankyou!


----------



## Harken Banks

My view is you have made the right choice. I hope things go well for you and your husband. You were dealing with something quite dangerous and seem to have taken it on and disarmed it.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Harken Banks said:


> My view is you have made the right choice. I hope things go well for you and your husband. You were dealing with something quite dangerous and seem to have taken it on and disarmed it.


Thankyou! Its making me feel so much better knowing other people would make the same decision.


----------



## VodkaR1

When my wife moved in, before we were married, there was a couple names who would text at 2am. I put my foot down too. Any respectful person wouldnt text at that hour while a couple was laying in bed.

But to this day, I've never told my wife to cut any friend out of her life. She (was) a bartender with many, many friends. Many of those friends became my friends.

Your situation sounds suspicious. But even still, telling someone they cant be friends is totaltarian rule. I consider it opression.

On that same note, I consider checking phones a major trust violation. My wife did that once, after watching some stupid lifetime movie where the cheaters were texting. She found nothing. I was offended. She apologized. If you dont trust me, then leave. We are here because we want to be. This isnt a police state.


----------



## Quality

VodkaR1 said:


> When my wife moved in, before we were married, there was a couple names who would text at 2am. I put my foot down too. Any respectful person wouldnt text at that hour while a couple was laying in bed.
> 
> But to this day, I've never told my wife to cut any friend out of her life. She (was) a bartender with many, many friends. Many of those friends became my friends.
> 
> Your situation sounds suspicious. But even still, telling someone they cant be friends is totaltarian rule. I consider it opression.
> 
> On that same note, I consider checking phones a major trust violation. My wife did that once, after watching some stupid lifetime movie where the cheaters were texting. She found nothing. I was offended. She apologized. If you dont trust me, then leave. We are here because we want to be. This isnt a police state.


I read the above first and thought to myself, "those with nothing to hide, hide nothing" 

but then you posted this on another thread:



VodkaR1 said:


> Either youre married or not. None of this half married stuff.
> 
> I did the same thing before I met my wife. I had to stop. It was hard. Some of those ladies still say hello, or wanna chat which I understand - theres a friendship there. But no sexting. I divert to convo about my life now and marriage.
> 
> Porn... not unless the wife has had her fill. Anymore I really try to limit it to once in a while. If hes on the porn and youre getting turned down, the porns gotta go
> 
> Dude has to decide - married or not. You cant have the best of both worlds. That just doesnt work. You cant be single and married at the same time.
> 
> I get that flirting is fun - boosts self esteem, shots of dopamine, the feeling of being desired. Fortunately my wife trusts me enough that I can get a little flirty and shes not mad about it.
> 
> You did more than sext back. You did it with that classic "guy friend" few men approve of to begin with, which youve probably reassured your husband that your "just friends" many times. Same old , same old song and dannnnnccce
> 
> Realize that guy friend is just waiting in line for his day to come. Sounds like he got a taste.
> 
> Say something? No. Dont wage war. Fix the marriage


Married men don't maintain texting friendships with girls they used to have sexting relationships with nor do they flirt with women to boost their self-esteem or to feel desired. It's not fun or funny, it's hurtful. 

You are abusing your wife's trust and taking unnecessary risks with your marriage.

Finally, you don't "fix marriages" by keeping secrets and maintaining secret second lives.

Your marriage is on a collision course with infidelity. You just can't keep taking this many risks without being at risk someday or another.

Take your own advice:


> Dude has to decide - married or not. You cant have the best of both worlds. That just doesnt work. You cant be single and married at the same time.


----------



## Harken Banks

VodkaR1 said:


> When my wife moved in, before we were married, there was a couple names who would text at 2am. I put my foot down too. Any respectful person wouldnt text at that hour while a couple was laying in bed.
> 
> But to this day, I've never told my wife to cut any friend out of her life. She (was) a bartender with many, many friends. Many of those friends became my friends.
> 
> Your situation sounds suspicious. But even still, telling someone they cant be friends is totaltarian rule. I consider it opression.
> 
> On that same note, I consider checking phones a major trust violation. My wife did that once, after watching some stupid lifetime movie where the cheaters were texting. She found nothing. I was offended. She apologized. If you dont trust me, then leave. We are here because we want to be. This isnt a police state.


You cannot tell anyone else what to do. That is counter-productive. You can only tell them what you will do. Or just do it without telling them in advance. It is a mistake to make a dramatic declaration of principle and then not follow through.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

VodkaR1 said:


> When my wife moved in, before we were married, there was a couple names who would text at 2am. I put my foot down too. Any respectful person wouldnt text at that hour while a couple was laying in bed.
> 
> But to this day, I've never told my wife to cut any friend out of her life. She (was) a bartender with many, many friends. Many of those friends became my friends.
> 
> Your situation sounds suspicious. But even still, telling someone they cant be friends is totaltarian rule. I consider it opression.
> 
> On that same note, I consider checking phones a major trust violation. My wife did that once, after watching some stupid lifetime movie where the cheaters were texting. She found nothing. I was offended. She apologized. If you dont trust me, then leave. We are here because we want to be. This isnt a police state.


I trust him. But I will not allow him to maintain a friendship that he wouldn’t let me have. Has to be equal. I know it would bother him if I suddenly became friends with a man and starting texting him and then just decided not to mention it until he asked. I will always be pissed over that. He is my husband and I have given him the benefit of the doubt because the texts slowed down after the first week as I have the records. I also know he never made any attempt to go anyplace with her besides a work function and that I have found other proof that he did not have an emotional affair. Although, at first I thought he did I can see more clearly now in his actions that it wasn’t emotional as he didn’t seem to care much about getting rid of her. Next time I won’t be so forgiving. I believe he was flattered this young woman wanted to be his friend and he made a mistake. He would rather I not have female friends so I will expect the same from him.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Quality said:


> "someone like this" = human
> 
> Were all hypothetically capable of cheating --- some more than others {but who's to know?}
> 
> Actually --- there is kind of a way to statistically evaluate how risky an individual may be ~ {statistics aren't people --- these are just trends or correlations }:
> 
> Calculate your Ace Score: Adverse Childhood Experiences
> 
> ACE=Adverse Childhood Experience. It's a scale created in the 1990's based upon statistical analysis of real world people {Kaiser Medical study on 17,000 mostly white and mostly educated San Diego'ians}. 1-10 categories each worth 1pt. Any score over 3 will statistically result in some detrimental effect on adult health/disease, emotional behavior, and social behavior in their lifetime if abuse is left untreated. The higher the number, the likelihood of a shorter lifespan by up to 20 years increases exponentially; 6 or more and the person has a 4000% greater chance of using IV drugs that the average bear. That ain't no extra zero either = FOUR THOUSAND PERCENT. Cancer, chronic, pain, addiction, *promiscuity*, diabetes, obesity, depression, *inability to form & maintain relationships {intimacy issues}*, learning disabilities, mental illness, etc...all chances increase immensely with a higher score.
> 
> One addiction doctor summarized it by indicating that the higher your score the more likely you will respond to future difficulties in your life with "ritualized compulsive comfort seeking" behavior like drugs, alcohol, eating, sex, escapism, unhealthy relationships and|or abuse. Ritualized compulsive comfort-seeking (what traditionalists sometimes call addiction) is a normal response to the adversity experienced in childhood, just like bleeding is a normal response to being stabbed.  { Dr Daniel Sumrock }
> 
> So while I was the "independent behaving" spouse with worse boundaries around the opposite sex early in our marriage and my wife was the much more jealous, possessive and controlling spouse that neither of us considered really at risk, when our marriage became extremely difficult after we had children {and all marriages get difficult from time to time especially with young children on the scene}, I was much more resilient and it was my wife's higher ACE score that, unbeknownst to me, made her a much more likely candidate to resort to some kind of "comfort-seeking" behavior like escaping into a fantastical adulterous relationship.
> 
> My Ace score is a zero and my wife is a 3 or 4 or 5 depending on how you want to define "often".
> 
> What's your score?



My score was a 4...


----------



## GoingCrazy01

UPDATE: 
So I wanted to know for sure if he had any feelings for this woman. I believed he stopped texting her but wanted to know he he missed her or had feelings for her. My husband still works for the same company but works at a different site. He has to drive to the place she works after work to drop off employees. Sometimes he has to go in to talk to the boss. So, I wanted to know if he was going in there and talking to her. Luckily for me they have glass windows and I can see everything inside. Her desk is as soon as you walk in so he has to pass her. It was bothering me. So I drove by and waited for him to arrive at his work. He did. And again he went inside. When he went in I could see her sitting at her desk. He walked in must have said hi and then kept walking! He didn’t stop to talk to her! I was so happy! Then the next night he didn’t even go in the building at all! And yes she was in there! So, maybe I took this a little to far. If he had feelings for her he would have stopped to chat at least one of the 2 times I checked! He didn’t. This makes me believe he has been innocent the whole time! I feel so bad for not trusting this beautiful man! Where was my head? Why did I do this? Thinking of going back by one more time tonight and then putting an end to it! If you had feelings for someone or cared about them at all wouldn’t you stop to chat if you couldn’t text them? Feeling hopeful now!


----------



## WilliamM

There is a reason it's called trust but verify.

Be well.

Remember, you can really have the fairy tale, even if all hell were to break lose. I think so anyway.

You will probably do just fine.


----------



## WilliamM

GoingCrazy01 said:


> My score was a 4...


My wife would never answer these types of things. I did it on her behalf. She has a 6. I get a 2. A 4 is just middle of the road.

Maybe that's why the shrinks said my wacky wife is pretty level headed, considering.

You sound pretty level headed to me.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> My wife would never answer these types of things. I did it on her behalf. She has a 6. I get a 2. A 4 is just middle of the road.
> 
> Maybe that's why the shrinks said my wacky wife is pretty level headed, considering.
> 
> You sound pretty level headed to me.


I used to think I was level headed tillthis happened. Now all I want to do is spend my time searching for clues. Even though I have not found anything it’s like an addiction. I can’t stop. I should have found something by now but nothing. He must be innocent. I just can’t find anything!


----------



## WilliamM

When my wife let our "friend" seduce her she confessed to me as soon as I walked in the door. I think that was good. We could have handled it.

Our problem was I soon discovered, as I questioned her about why she did it, she lied to me about things. Other things. The more I asked, the more she lied. 

The feeling you aren't getting the whole truth can make you feel very bad, and make you do some really out there things. I was horrible to my wife for 15 months, then merely terrible for another 9 months. But then, she never stopped lying to me, either.

It takes time to heal, in any case.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> The fact your husband did not tell you about it immediately, or even before they exchanged numbers, is very telling to me.
> 
> If he had two brain cells to rub together he had to know it would be of concern. The way to allay your concern would be to make certain you were fully aware of every communication he had with her, including his first exchange of numbers.
> 
> In my opinion he should have asked you beforehand if you were okay with it. If you had the option to veto the exchange, I bet you would have been quite comfortable with them exchanging numbers.
> 
> Oh he knows and knew! I think it was exciting for him to have a younger girl pay attention to him. Here I am 6 months later still wondering. I guess I know he didn’t cheat. But the fact that he even needed to talk to her is disturbing. However, it’s been 6 months and I haven’t found anything odd. He does have to walk by her at the end of the day when he returns the work car. He doesn’t seem to stop to speak with her for more than a few seconds so that’s probably a good sign. I usually go to the gym with him but if I don’t go I check on which gym he goes to. He does not go to the one where she goes so that must be a mother good sign. Just wish I wasn’t so hurt by this. He definitely knew what he did was over th line and has promised not to do it again. He said he enjoyed the attention I wasn’t giving him. Makes me so mad!
> 
> My wife would never think of attempting to enforce anything on me. She is subservient to me. But I do discuss just such situations with her, and do show her every communication with all female co-workers. I believe I should, so I do.
> 
> Your husband didn't tell you about it. Very odd. And evasive after the fact. He feels guilty for some reason. Probably because he knows it is a little over the boundaries of propriety. Does not mean anything is going on. But I am sure he knew, and knows, it is over the line.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Noble1 said:


> Sounds like things worked out fairly well. Your husband did all he could to assuage your concerns (including moving gyms which to me is a biggie).
> 
> That being said, despite your mentioned anxiety, your feelings twigged about something so do not discount that.
> 
> Enjoy the fact that his actions have shown you his "true" feelings.
> 
> You can keep an eye out for things but hopefully not to a paranoid level.


He has shown me that he only wants me. He is doing everything he can and has not contacted his “friend” in 6 months. However, I can’t stop thinking about it. It’s driving me crazy! I can’t get passed the paranoid level and it is ruining my life! If he is not talking to her now and stopped when I asked and cut off all communication with her why can’t I get over it? It’s just way to over the line for me I guess...


----------



## Machjo

Diana7 said:


> I would say that he was treading on thin ice and that had you not discovered it, it may have gone past being just friends. There is no need for a person to be texting an opposite sex work colleague at all. Its good that you discovered it and hopefully he is now aware of the dangers and of how you feel about it.
> I know so many affairs that started with being 'just friends' at work, so I am well aware of the dangers.


Just to play devil's advocate here, what about same-sex friends? Homosexuality exists too in our world. I think for a healthy relationship, trust is needed.


----------



## WilliamM

Even for more devilish advocacy, my wife is bisexual, and a pathological liar. 

But I do trust her, in a weird sort of way. I do keep track of her, very closely. She thrives on my attention. I had never actually realized how much she needs my pretty much constant attention until just recently.

I trust Mary's motives. She lies, yes. But she has shown me she loves me with actions. 

Did I mention after her affair I got nasty, she lied a lot, I emotionally abused her, then even physically abused her. I did stop, change, took training, then to learn to even be happy with her never telling me the truth I even started studying philosophy in school?

Anyway, all that was in 1978 to 1981. In 1990 or so, several years after she was diagnosed as a pathological liar with no hope of a cure, Mary asked me how I could ever believe she loved me. She was very worried about that, since I never believed anything she said.

In 1991 I took her to the pound and turned her in as a lost puppy. No, wait. I found a poor damaged dog and adopted it. So after some vet bills to fix up the damage from the abuse I told Mary she had a dog.

A few months later I told her we should take the dog back and turn it in because it didn't love her anyway.

Mary was furious.

I asked Mary, which is always a dangerous thing to do, but hey, this was a lesson, how could Mary know the dog loved her since the dog couldn't tell her anything.

Mary never asked me again how I can be sure she loves me.

You just need to know from how your husband treats you. Some day it will feel right again.

My wife is a pathological liar. You can imagine I generally have a dim view of words by themselves. They need substantiation and scrutiny, and can never really be trusted.

Someday your gut will know.


----------



## Machjo

StillSearching said:


> Keeps his phone clean? Why?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To free up storage space?


----------



## Machjo

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Thanks for the reply from everyone. I am not usually a controlling person but this whole situation just got me a little concerned. It’s odd for him to do this. When he offered to text her answer tell her they couldn’t talk anymore I asked him to delete everything. So, he deleted the last message and I didn’t get to see it. The message where he told her they couldn’t text anymore everyday. I did get the reply from her though. He didn’t try to hide his phone. All it said was “I told you to be honest with her from the beginning. Have a good weekend.” Do you guys think that sounds innocent enough?????


It could. She might have misunderstood that he had hidden their friendship from you and she thought that's why you thought there was more to it than just friendship. It's possible.


----------



## WilliamM

I delete all texts every few days. My wife does it almost every day. It just looks messy to us to have a list of texts from God only knows who all strung out down the screen. I like my phones kept clean.

Alerts from the bank, 10 different work colleagues, Apple, Google, LinkedIn, and some I never gave my number to. My wife is my social director, and is asking me who the heck I gave her (my number she uses) to every few days. It's a mess pretty quick.

Mary and I text each other hundreds of times a day, and that gets messy too. And I like to get rid of her texts pretty quick so nobody at work might read them.

Her sister texts her a lot. 

I remind my wife a phone is just a chalkboard, and expect it to get erased at any moment. You can't trust electronics, and I like to clean them up by defaulting them from time to time.


----------



## StillSearching

Machjo said:


> To free up storage space?


I'm calling straight up BS on this.


----------



## Noble1

To the OP, I do understand where you are coming from.

My life/partner situation is like this as well.

There was a period in our relationship where everything seemed to be pointing to her having a possible affair.

This was a very rough patch in our relationship due to many factors.

Bottom line is I am almost 100% certain that there was nothing going on. Yes there were a couple of tiny steps in the wrong direction but that could be due to perception and not "reality".

Thing is that I have experienced infidelity in other relationships too which to anyone who has been through it permanently distorts your thinking.

To this day I still verify things. Maybe not to the extent I once did and "things" do not impact me like in the past but this is something that I realize I will have to deal with, likely forever.

Take things with your husband as they seem to be and enjoy life.

Good luck.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Machjo said:


> To free up storage space?


He just always keeps his texts and call logs empty. He has since he got his first phone. And I know he wasn’t texting anyone then. So, I don’t find it odd. However, now if he is going to delete his phone messages he tells me first and does it in front of me. He says something like “better clean up my phone now”. Lol. I think he is doing that so I don’t get suspicious of him deleting them so he does it in front of me now. He always leaves it lying out. It’s like he is trying extra hard to earn the trust back.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

Noble1 said:


> To the OP, I do understand where you are coming from.
> 
> My life/partner situation is like this as well.
> 
> There was a period in our relationship where everything seemed to be pointing to her having a possible affair.
> 
> This was a very rough patch in our relationship due to many factors.
> 
> Bottom line is I am almost 100% certain that there was nothing going on. Yes there were a couple of tiny steps in the wrong direction but that could be due to perception and not "reality".
> 
> Thing is that I have experienced infidelity in other relationships too which to anyone who has been through it permanently distorts your thinking.
> 
> To this day I still verify things. Maybe not to the extent I once did and "things" do not impact me like in the past but this is something that I realize I will have to deal with, likely forever.
> 
> Take things with your husband as they seem to be and enjoy life.
> 
> Good luck.


Thankyou! It’s hard cause your mind makes you think things are worse than they probably are. I have proof just like you that nothing happened but you still have the 1 percent in your mind wondering exactly what the worst thing that happened was. Was it nothing at all or was there maybe a little too much flirting? He swears nothing at all but I will never know. I guess as our partners have cut off their friendships we have to move forward cause there is nothing to say there was really and wrong doing. It it really sucks having to think that maybe your partner had some sort of feelings for another person. It hurts. It hurts really bad!


----------



## stro

Go with what you KNOW. Trust the FACTS, not your fears. So far all the things you actually know about this situation is telling you it’s OK. You responded appropriately to the texting of this girl. He also responded appropriately when you expressed you’re displeasure with the situation. She actually told him he should have been honest to begin with because there was nothing to hide. I text with work friends male and female alike, usually humorous dumb things, quite often. My wife is ok with it but if she asked me to stop texting the females I would do exactly what your husband did. EVERYTHING about this says he was NOT being unfaithful to you. This sounds like it has consumed your thoughts for a long time and is affecting your emotional and mental health. What would your husband say if you asked him to go to counseling with you?


----------



## GoingCrazy01

stro said:


> Go with what you KNOW. Trust the FACTS, not your fears. So far all the things you actually know about this situation is telling you it’s OK. You responded appropriately to the texting of this girl. He also responded appropriately when you expressed you’re displeasure with the situation. She actually told him he should have been honest to begin with because there was nothing to hide. I text with work friends male and female alike, usually humorous dumb things, quite often. My wife is ok with it but if she asked me to stop texting the females I would do exactly what your husband did. EVERYTHING about this says he was NOT being unfaithful to you. This sounds like it has consumed your thoughts for a long time and is affecting your emotional and mental health. What would your husband say if you asked him to go to counseling with you?


It has been consuming my every thought for six months! It’s like I developed severe anxiety when this happened. I had to stop taking to him about it all together a few months ago because I had to stop fighting with him. Poor guy just kept taking it and I had to stop. But it has not stopped for me. But he doesn’t know that. Unfortunately he agreed to come to counselling and the guy had to change the time of the appointment last minute and I couldn’t get ahold of husband cause he was working. I ended up going alone but we never went back. I have unanswered questions but can’t ask them now. It’s too late to start this again so I have to live with them I guess. He has done everything he can to fix this but I guess I can’t accept the fact that he developed a bond with some other girl. He has never done that and I guess it kind of breaks my heart. I need to find a way to move on because other than this issue he has been he perfect husband. He won’t even argue or fight about anything now and is always calling and texting if he will be late from work. Always planning stuff to do and always kissing and hugging me. We recently got wedding ring tattoos and when I see his stuck to his finger for life it kind of makes me feel better. I guess just knowing that he would put it there and that it can’t go away ever makes me feel nice. Odd but it does. It shows a lot I think. I just need to finishing dealing with this myself and move on. Probably should have taken the anziety meds but I don’t like medication!


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## WilliamM

I have many unanswered questions.

My wife can't answer them. So they will never be answered.

After I assaulted her because I became so enraged because she kept lying to me I finally decided to just cure myself. It was obvious I could do nothing for her. As the saying goes, I could not change her.

After I learned to channel my rage so I was not harming her I still needed to find ways to become at peace with myself. I would not abandon my marriage. I doubt I have ever met anyone else who would put up with what I do from their spouse. But I refused to give up.

I actually studied philosophy. I do not like the stuff. Most of it drives me nuts. But my concept of truth was simple. Just say what is true. However, that did not work with my wife, because she can't do that. 

So I had to learn how to accept her without ever learning the truth. Well, how was I going to do that? I had to re-learn what is truth.

It took me a while, but I got there. I became content with the idea that truth is what I can see and touch. What I experience for myself. Not what someone tells me. A paradigm shift.

I think it is likely you will need to change yourself in some way. You need to change you, so you can accept what you do find, and can verify. 

Yes, I did have psychiatric help as well. I have been exceedingly hesitant to admit that. But my wife points out I am quite liberal about pointing out she used it extensively so I should be willing to point out I availed myself of some opportunity.

You can change you. I think it would be wise of you to try.


----------



## Laurentium

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Why can’t I just trust him this once?


Perhaps you need to find out why.



GoingCrazy01 said:


> *My score was a 4...*





GoingCrazy01 said:


> It has been consuming my every thought for six months!


I am wondering if you are triggered because of some other incident of cheating, dishonesty or abandonment that happened to you, or happened in your family, in the past. Don't necessarily answer that here, but think about it. 



> Unfortunately he agreed to come to counselling and the guy had to change the time of the appointment last minute and I couldn’t get ahold of husband cause he was working. I ended up going alone but we never went back. I have unanswered questions but can’t ask them now. It’s too late to start this again so I have to live with them I guess.


I don't agree with this at all. *If *you want marriage counselling, to address your questions, then it is NOT too late to do it.


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## stro

Severe anxiety can be dibilitating. I hope you understand that their is nothing wrong with you and that you had a valid reason to be concerned. However it may be important to address the ANXIETY as that is what is actually crippling you. You don’t like medication so that is out. Now obviously you have this forum to share in but have you unloaded all this continued anxiety RECENTLY to a trusted friend or family member? Sometimes it’s good to speak the words out loud to someone. It may help. This can eat you alive if you keep trying to bury it. You can only pretend to be ok for so long. It may help to reach out to someone. Perhaps a therapist if you don’t have anyone else.


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## NJ2

I feel for you deeply. I had reasons to be suspicious of my h and began looking for evidence....it became all consuming.
It occupied my thoughts all day long. The anxiety of not being sure drove me crazy. We went to MC and IC...anyways long story ...but my point is 

It is possible to develop a type of OCD that revolves around a relationship. You become consumed with thoughts that they are doing something bad (cheating) and the anxiety drives compulsive behaviours - like phone checking, writing notes about what he is doing, saying so that you can spot any lies...It seems very important that yu dont miss anything in case that thing is the evidence that will finally take away the uncertainty...The tipping point is how much time you spend obsessing about it and how much it impacts your life - eventually I went to the drs and was given medication.
It takes the edge off and lets you get back your life. 

Good luck


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## GoingCrazy01

NJ2 said:


> I feel for you deeply. I had reasons to be suspicious of my h and began looking for evidence....it became all consuming.
> It occupied my thoughts all day long. The anxiety of not being sure drove me crazy. We went to MC and IC...anyways long story ...but my point is
> 
> It is possible to develop a type of OCD that revolves around a relationship. You become consumed with thoughts that they are doing something bad (cheating) and the anxiety drives compulsive behaviours - like phone checking, writing notes about what he is doing, saying so that you can spot any lies...It seems very important that yu dont miss anything in case that thing is the evidence that will finally take away the uncertainty...The tipping point is how much time you spend obsessing about it and how much it impacts your life - eventually I went to the drs and was given medication.
> It takes the edge off and lets you get back your life.
> 
> Good luck


I think you are right! This is pretty much exactly what is happining. I need to start focusing on something else so I can move on. I have no evidence at all stating he did anything wrong and have been searching for 6 months. Time to try switching my focus to something else! Thanks!


----------



## Machjo

GoingCrazy01 said:


> It has been consuming my every thought for six months! It’s like I developed severe anxiety when this happened. I had to stop taking to him about it all together a few months ago because I had to stop fighting with him. Poor guy just kept taking it and I had to stop. But it has not stopped for me. But he doesn’t know that. Unfortunately he agreed to come to counselling and the guy had to change the time of the appointment last minute and I couldn’t get ahold of husband cause he was working. I ended up going alone but we never went back. I have unanswered questions but can’t ask them now. It’s too late to start this again so I have to live with them I guess. He has done everything he can to fix this but I guess I can’t accept the fact that he developed a bond with some other girl. He has never done that and I guess it kind of breaks my heart. I need to find a way to move on because other than this issue he has been he perfect husband. He won’t even argue or fight about anything now and is always calling and texting if he will be late from work. Always planning stuff to do and always kissing and hugging me. We recently got wedding ring tattoos and when I see his stuck to his finger for life it kind of makes me feel better. I guess just knowing that he would put it there and that it can’t go away ever makes me feel nice. Odd but it does. It shows a lot I think. I just need to finishing dealing with this myself and move on. Probably should have taken the anziety meds but I don’t like medication!


What you're going through must be hard. Of course we can never guarantee that a person hasn't cheated. Every time my wife and I are out of one another's site, we have an opportunity to cheat on one another; but leaving one another's sight does not prove that we cheated or even felt like cheating, only that we've had an opportunity to do so had we chosen to. If I ever wanted certainty that my wife hadn't cheated on me, I'd go mad. I'd need to attach a body cam to her and observe her 24/7 and she would probably resent that. Sooner or later for our own sanity, we need to trust one another.

Now I can certainly see how, if your husband never had female friends before and now suddenly has one, that catches your attention. Yes, he could be cheating on you or it could just be coincidence that he never had female friends before and that she really is just a friend. There is no way of knowing. But at the end of the day, to keep yourself happy and sane and him happy and sane in the marriage, you need to go on the presumption that he's faithful to you until you can find sure proof to the contrary, otherwise this will eat away at you. From what I've read, he's not revealed any certain proof that he's cheated on you.


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## WilliamM

I suggest it is unlikely you can simply choose to switch your focus. You will need help.

I felt I am excellent at self control. I studied yoga. I had amazing self control of body and mind. But I could not release my anger over the fact Mary was a pathological liar. The anger ate at my soul. I worked hard to find ways to change my internal view of what mattered in terms of my views of what is truth, but I did ask for help from Mary's shrink.

Her shrink did specialize in treating CSA survivors, and hypnotism, so he was not specifically good for me, but Mary liked him and he knew the issues, so I chose him. Mary liked me seeing him so she could vent to him about me on occasion, and on occasion use him as a voice to me.

Mary was in therapy for 8 years. Her need was to find why she was suffering horrible panic attacks, and reduce those. Her mental illness could not be solved, so it was not a focus. It took me a few years to finally come to terms with her illness.

I could not begin to consider how long it might take to deal with any particular issue, and everyone is different.


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## ABHale

Please forgive the question if it isn’t the case. 

Have you ever cheated on your husband? While dating or something. 

Cheaters have been known to do what you have done with your husband. Just for the simple reason that they know that they are capable of doing it themselves. 

My last location I worked with a girl. When I would come into the office we would shoot the breeze every now and then. It was nothing sexual just friendly talk. She was just a friend. And yes when that location shut down we messaged back and forth when I was looking for another job. If she saw something she would let me know. It’s been over a year since we last texted. So I believe you really over reacted.


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## GoingCrazy01

ABHale said:


> Please forgive the question if it isn’t the case.
> 
> Have you ever cheated on your husband? While dating or something.
> 
> Cheaters have been known to do what you have done with your husband. Just for the simple reason that they know that they are capable of doing it themselves.
> 
> My last location I worked with a girl. When I would come into the office we would shoot the breeze every now and then. It was nothing sexual just friendly talk. She was just a friend. And yes when that location shut down we messaged back and forth when I was looking for another job. If she saw something she would let me know. It’s been over a year since we last texted. So I believe you really over reacted.


No I have never cheated on my husband! Not in the 15 years we have been together! And in that time he never felt it necessary to text other woman. Even if they were just friends. That’s why this is so odd to me maybe. It just doesn’t fit how we have been living. And maybe that’s is why he hesitated in telling me right away. Because he knew what I would think. Either way he knew I wouldn’t be happy and he would not like it if the roles were reversed. I am glad he ended this friendship but he should have never started it without telling me. It was disrespectful. I think the fact that he wasn’t open about it from the beginning is most of the problem. He gave it up pretty easily after 5 days of me *****ing. So he couldn’t have been that attached. As the days go by it starts to look more innocent but there was a lot of texting in those few weeks. A little too much. To be honest I think he enjoyed the attention from a younger girl. And that was probably all it was. Still unacceptable to keep from me. I am just glad it didn’t go any further and destroy our 15 year relationship. But my mind runs wild about how he felt about her. I can’t stop that! Hopefully time will help.


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## alte Dame

I sense that you are at war with yourself because you are telling yourself that 'he did nothing wrong,' but you are feeling that he did, in fact, do something wrong.

And he did.

He secretly texted with a younger woman every day until you called him on it. He kept it secret for a reason and you and he know this. It sounds possible that 'nothing happened,' in the sense of 'they didn't have a physical affair,' but he betrayed marital trust by having this secret relationship.

It's easy enough to be flattered by attention from the OS and this is where so many affairs start - with flattering and entitlement. Your gut is telling you that this is serious, but you are relieved that it didn't go any further, so you berate yourself for listening to your gut. And the internal conflict and anxiety thus continues.

This actually IS a serious breach in your marriage and you are not unreasonable for believing that it is, in my opinion. Rugsweeping the fallout from this will only keep you anxious. Have you read 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass? If not, you should read it and have your WH read it. You two need a place to start to have a healthy, constructive discussion on what he did.


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## WilliamM

They have had discussions. She is now worried she may damage the relationship with her husband because she cannot let it go. She feels he has been very understanding and accommodating. We cannot say he has not been. I believe her.

At this point she wants to find a way to gain peace, and she knows this is something her husband cannot help her with at this stage.

I suspect he would be willing to continue to try, but then the question is how? What can he do? From her descriptions he has obliged all requests she has made.

At some point sometimes anxiety can take on a life of it's own. Possibly this is such a time. I think a psychologist or psychiatrist would be well equipped to help. People need to understand seeking help which is better qualified than the run of the mill counselor might well be a good idea in a lot of cases. You need to look at credentials and degrees before you can even begin to think of trusting their advice.

Well, that's my unschooled opinion, anyway.


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## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> They have had discussions. She is now worried she may damage the relationship with her husband because she cannot let it go. She feels he has been very understanding and accommodating. We cannot say he has not been. I believe her.
> 
> At this point she wants to find a way to gain peace, and she knows this is something her husband cannot help her with at this stage.
> 
> I suspect he would be willing to continue to try, but then the question is how? What can he do? From her descriptions he has obliged all requests she has made.
> 
> At some point sometimes anxiety can take on a life of it's own. Possibly this is such a time. I think a psychologist or psychiatrist would be well equipped to help. People need to understand seeking help which is better qualified than the run of the mill counselor might well be a good idea in a lot of cases. You need to look at credentials and degrees before you can even begin to think of trusting their advice.
> 
> Well, that's my unschooled opinion, anyway.


I think it is probably time to get on some anziety meds and see if that will help! It may help me move on and stop thinking about this. I can’t lewve him over this nor do I want to. The reality is that he didn’t even really cheat on me and I do have proof of that. Just hurt he lied. So, if I am not going to leave him I have to figure out how to move on. I think maybe some meds could help take the edge off like one of the other posters mentioned! It’s hard to tell if this is all anziety but when it controls your thoughts all day long there is a good chance it is I guess! Worth a try and I thank you for all your wonderful advice’


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## RandomDude

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Hello everyone! I have some concerns with my husbands actions and looking for some help! My husband exchanged phone numbers with a female coworker. He did not tell me this until I asked. After 2 weeks of having this friend I asked one day who he was texting. He told me he had a friend from work. He swears they were just friends. The problem is do I believe him? He has never gone anyplace with this woman. He was home every weekend and evening. He always spends all his time with us. He said he was not really keeping it from me. He told me as soon as I asked. Can men and women be just friends or was there more going on. He has never cheated and we have been together for 16 years. We have sex daily. The other thing is that I do not have the text messages as he always has kept his phone clean. I do have access to all his passwords and phone and computer. He has no problem with that. I also asked that he not text her anymore. Then he admitted that she also goes to the same gym as him and that is how they started talking. I asked him not to text her anymore and to please switch gyms. He has stopped texting her and switched gyms. He also does not work there anymore. He was offered a promotion to leave. So, am I overreacting? I am so mad. I actually want to leave him over this breech of trust but I love him so much. He has never done anything like this in the past and he says he didn't do anything wrong. Would this be an emotional affair possibly? They were texting everyday for 2 weeks. So confused. It has been months now and he has not texted her. Also, he invited me to work functions where she will be so he doesn't really seem to care if I am around her. He also said I can message her if I want but I never did that. Also, I have anxiety so sometimes I wonder if it is all in my head. Any advice would be appreciated. Is this as bad as I am making it out to be? He swears they were just friends....


Sounds innocent to me, and he's been very transparent.

Sorry I came a little late in this but what you mean he lied? Sounds more like he didn't bother to tell you because he didn't think it would matter that much. And if he was hiding it from you, your reaction could be the reason why and in this case I don't blame him.

Regardless though, even if it was the latter scenario of him worried about your reaction, it was a breach of trust and you need to CALMLY, discuss that with him. I don't think your relationship is so far gone that he would be unreasonable.


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## WilliamM

The right professional can help, with or without meds.

My wife was in therapy for 8 years, and never took any meds at all. She had wicked bad panic attacks, sometimes every day. But they just kept trying to find the solution by working through what was in her mind.

It worked.

For her it took that long. But they had beaten that memory deep into her. It was gruesome. 

But Mary never took anything. She wouldn't. Just talking to her shrink always helped. The right voice.

Her shrink hypnotized her. Because she is a pathological liar, just talking with her was kinda useless.

I actually just put up a post about her, us, in the mental and physical health section, so I stop trying to post anything about her pathology on other people's threads.


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## Harken Banks

Be wary of the professional advice. Talk to close friends if that is an option. But not obsessively. Just so you have the support. I am skeptical of the anti depressants. Some think they work well. I did not like the idea that I was being medicated because my wife had an affair. Do and embrace the things that make you happy. Regain yourself. Best.


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## GoingCrazy01

Harken Banks said:


> Be wary of the professional advice. Talk to close friends if that is an option. But not obsessively. Just so you have the support. I am skeptical of the anti depressants. Some think they work well. I did not like the idea that I was being medicated because my wife had an affair. Do and embrace the things that make you happy. Regain yourself. Best.


My husband had been telling me not to take the meds! He thinks it’s a bad idea. He keeps trying to make me happy. I can see it. He doesn’t mention anything but is always keeping me close and trying to take care of me. He knows how hurt I am at him for not being very honest. He says I am causing myself this pain as nothing bad happened. He said the worst think is the fact he didn’t tell me right away. And yes it seems so stupid to take meds cause my husband became friends with a girl and didn’t tell me. When I say it it’s sounds stupid but I am so sick of my life Revolving around what they could have been talking about. It’s getting so old. Don’t want to work, don’t want to walk the dogs, don’t want to grocery shop. Just want to spend my days thinking and trying to put pieces together. It’s bad. I have to home school my daughter who is in grade 9. I have to get focused! I do feel a lot better than I did before. Has to be anziety though. Only felt like this one other time and it was because my dog died. I couldn’t get over it. It drove me nuts. It’s been 2 years and I didn’t stop crying. Finally got over that when this happened. I don’t even really believe in anziety until recently. I just want to be happy again! Thing is that we are better now than we have ever been! He is always planning weekend family events, texting all the time and calling on his way home. Buying flowers and taking me out! Always holding my hand and cuddling! I could have the perfect life with this man if I could just forget about this! I hate that it happened and he chose to have a friend and not tell me. It looks very suspicious but I haven’t found anything saying it was anything else. I hate that it happened but if it didn’t we wouldn’t be as happy as we are now. We would just be good like before not great. So I can’t even really say I would take it back. So confused! Oh my.


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## RandomDude

When I was married, my ex-wife and I had a rule, we had alot of opposite sex friends, but if either of us didn't like one of each other's friends, we ended the friendship straight away. Rarely did we exercise this however, and it was never due to any threats from infidelity more like we just didn't like them lol. We operated as a family and a team in regards to this. That worked for us but unsure if it would work for you, just throwing solutions out there.

OSF or opposite sex friends is a hurdle every relationship must overcome. It sounds like you guys are overcoming yours and it's a good thing.


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## Harken Banks

GoingCrazy01 said:


> My husband had been telling me not to take the meds! He thinks it’s a bad idea. He keeps trying to make me happy. I can see it. He doesn’t mention anything but is always keeping me close and trying to take care of me. He knows how hurt I am at him for not being very honest. He says I am causing myself this pain as nothing bad happened. He said the worst think is the fact he didn’t tell me right away. And yes it seems so stupid to take meds cause my husband became friends with a girl and didn’t tell me. When I say it it’s sounds stupid but I am so sick of my life Revolving around what they could have been talking about. It’s getting so old. Don’t want to work, don’t want to walk the dogs, don’t want to grocery shop. Just want to spend my days thinking and trying to put pieces together. It’s bad. I have to home school my daughter who is in grade 9. I have to get focused! I do feel a lot better than I did before. Has to be anziety though. Only felt like this one other time and it was because my dog died. I couldn’t get over it. It drove me nuts. It’s been 2 years and I didn’t stop crying. Finally got over that when this happened. I don’t even really believe in anziety until recently. I just want to be happy again! Thing is that we are better now than we have ever been! He is always planning weekend family events, texting all the time and calling on his way home. Buying flowers and taking me out! Always holding my hand and cuddling! I could have the perfect life with this man if I could just forget about this! I hate that it happened and he chose to have a friend and not tell me. It looks very suspicious but I haven’t found anything saying it was anything else. I hate that it happened but if it didn’t we wouldn’t be as happy as we are now. We would just be good like before not great. So I can’t even really say I would take it back. So confused! Oh my.


Best wishes. From what you write it seems this should work out. In any event, do not sacrifice yourself. That is advice from someone who has.


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## WilliamM

Anxiety is very real.

It is not just for the movie High Anxiety.

When our daughter died I could not get past the fear our son might die if I could not see him. My son had just lost his job and moved from his place on the west coast down to the family home in California. I had my wife constantly texting him to assure me.

I finally had my company fly my son out to live with us. He was 31 years old, but I could not get over the idea he was dead if I could not see him. And I let him stay here. It alleviates my anxiety.

Anxiety is very real. Attempting to deny it is one of the most sure ways to make sure it never goes away.


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## WilliamM

By the way, to pass the time while you are worrying, you can read up on what kind of a horrible person I am. I posted about my wife and I in the mental health section. 

A thread titled Pathological Lying, a short vague synopsis. I think that's it.

At least I have some experience with psychiatrists!


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## WilliamM

Oh. Another postscript.

My anxiety about my son was totally unfounded and unreasonable, and weird because I had no worries at all about my 38 year old son. Only my younger son.

It was just high anxiety.


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## GoingCrazy01

RandomDude said:


> When I was married, my ex-wife and I had a rule, we had alot of opposite sex friends, but if either of us didn't like one of each other's friends, we ended the friendship straight away. Rarely did we exercise this however, and it was never due to any threats from infidelity more like we just didn't like them lol. We operated as a family and a team in regards to this. That worked for us but unsure if it would work for you, just throwing solutions out there.
> 
> OSF or opposite sex friends is a hurdle every relationship must overcome. It sounds like you guys are overcoming yours and it's a good thing.[/QUOTE
> 
> Yes we are trying! Him so very hard! Just never had to deal with opposite sex friendships. Never came up before. That’s probably why it’s hard now.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

GoingCrazy01 said:


> RandomDude said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was married, my ex-wife and I had a rule, we had alot of opposite sex friends, but if either of us didn't like one of each other's friends, we ended the friendship straight away. Rarely did we exercise this however, and it was never due to any threats from infidelity more like we just didn't like them lol. We operated as a family and a team in regards to this. That worked for us but unsure if it would work for you, just throwing solutions out there.
> 
> OSF or opposite sex friends is a hurdle every relationship must overcome. It sounds like you guys are overcoming yours and it's a good thing.[/QUOTE
> 
> Yes we are trying! Him so very hard! Just never had to deal with opposite sex friendships. Never came up before. That’s probably why it’s hard now.
> 
> 
> 
> Easy/standard solution: Don't have them unless they are mutual friends of the marriage, and still keep an eye on them.
Click to expand...


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## GoingCrazy01

Rubix Cubed said:


> GoingCrazy01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Easy/standard solution: Don't have them unless they are mutual friends of the marriage, and still keep an eye on them.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this. We have both agreed not to have opposite sex fiends. Should he choose to not follow the rules a second time I will file for divorce. Although I do believe he will not do it again. I have noticed he does not stop to speak with her anymore. He has started taking his own vehicle so he does not go by her desk anymore. He couldn’t have cared for her too much if he chooses to stay away from her. Thank god I know for sure he is not standing any free time associating with her. This may have been different should he have chosen to be honest with me from the beginning. He chose not to and that make me suspicious. Due to that he cannot be friends with her anymore. He does not seem to care though which is a sign I believe that nothing emotional was going on. If he had an infatuation with her I believe it would be pretty hard to stop. Correct?
Click to expand...


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## Rubix Cubed

GoingCrazy01 said:


> He does not seem to care though which is a sign I believe that nothing emotional was going on. If he had an infatuation with her I believe it would be pretty hard to stop. Correct?


 It could be it was no big deal or it could be he is just laying low. From what you have posted I think you are likely in the clear with this one. Try not to obsess about it. You know what the red flags look like now so it would most likely be very apparent if he was doing something he shouldn't be again.


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## Machjo

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Rubix Cubed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this. We have both agreed not to have opposite sex fiends.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be careful with this. Friendships do occur. Maybe a more reasonable approach would be to immediately inform you of any communication with a woman. After all, I presume he will need to communicate with women sometimes, whether at work or out, family friends, etc.
Click to expand...


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## GoingCrazy01

Rubix Cubed said:


> It could be it was no big deal or it could be he is just laying low. From what you have posted I think you are likely in the clear with this one. Try not to obsess about it. You know what the red flags look like now so it would most likely be very apparent if he was doing something he shouldn't be again.


Yes I agree. If something was wrong it would be obvious. I do believe he is not “friends” anymore. I am hoping this was just a once in a lifetime stupid mistake. We all make a mistake sometimes. Hopefully that’s all it was!


----------



## GoingCrazy01

So turns out that this girls boyfriend knew they were texting each other. He didn’t care. Does that make it sound more innocent? I mean if there was something to hide she wouldn’t have told her boyfriend from the beginning right? Maybe she told him cause he doesn’t mind opposite sex friendships. Maybe my husband didn’t tell me cause he knew I would overreact and that’s the only reason I want told. Just seems if it was an inappropriate friendship he wouldn’t have known right? ...


----------



## WilliamM

His girlfriend, his choices.

What his girlfriend and your husband were texting about is not what bothers you.

It’s just the fact he didn’t tell you about it. 

Let me tell you, I went totally off the rails when I discovered my wife was a liar. What she lied about and why didn’t matter. I was furious. I punished her worse than any person should ever be punished. It was abusive and criminal.

And it was only because she lied. After the dust settled I couldn’t name one lie she told that was meant to hurt me or deceive me in a way that was designed to hurt me. She was desperately trying to avoid hurting me. She took the “Does my butt look fat in this pair of jeans?” idea to an extreme.

I wish I could go back and make me see how stupid I was. She did it out of love. I hurt her out of anger. 

Your anxiety is based on the fact he didn’t tell you about his friendship with her before embarking on it. I suspect once you get over it you will wish you could go back and make yourself see that’s what hurt, and not the content of his friendship, and you will soothe your troubled brow.

But I know it’s hard. Very hard.

After 15 months I snapped and assaulted my wife, just for lying to me.

Did it matter why? Do I remember what she lied about? No. 

After that I changed me.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> His girlfriend, his choices.
> 
> What his girlfriend and your husband were texting about is not what bothers you.
> 
> It’s just the fact he didn’t tell you about it.
> 
> Let me tell you, I went totally off the rails when I discovered my wife was a liar. What she lied about and why didn’t matter. I was furious. I punished her worse than any person should ever be punished. It was abusive and criminal.
> 
> And it was only because she lied. After the dust settled I couldn’t name one lie she told that was meant to hurt me or deceive me in a way that was designed to hurt me. She was desperately trying to avoid hurting me. She took the “Does my butt look fat in this pair of jeans?” idea to an extreme.
> 
> I wish I could go back and make me see how stupid I was. She did it out of love. I hurt her out of anger.
> 
> Your anxiety is based on the fact he didn’t tell you about his friendship with her before embarking on it. I suspect once you get over it you will wish you could go back and make yourself see that’s what hurt, and not the content of his friendship, and you will soothe your troubled brow.
> 
> But I know it’s hard. Very hard.
> 
> After 15 months I snapped and assaulted my wife, just for lying to me.
> 
> Did it matter why? Do I remember what she lied about? No.
> 
> After that I changed me.


 Yes! You are correct! It’s just the fact he didn’t tell me. Not sure I can even say he lied as he told me when I asked. I guess he didn’t lie just omitted the truth. Still just as bad as lying I think. He says it’s cause he knew I would overreact. And yes he is right but it’s totally not acceptable to not tell me. I guess I can give him some credit for telling me as soon as I asked. Gotta count for something.


----------



## WilliamM

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Yes! You are correct! It’s just the fact he didn’t tell me. Not sure I can even say he lied as he told me when I asked. I guess he didn’t lie just omitted the truth. Still just as bad as lying I think. He says it’s cause he knew I would overreact. And yes he is right but it’s totally not acceptable to not tell me. I guess I can give him some credit for telling me as soon as I asked. Gotta count for something.


Yes. And lies by omission do feel the same.

And by God, it does hurt.

I know.

Once I realized my wife could not change, I started taking philosophy courses at school. Worked my way through several. I had to find a way to deal with the rage I felt for the fact she could not just come out and say the truth. 

In my wife's case, she never can. So I can say it is different than a single incident. My wife says I had a bad past girlfriend who created my rabid response to being lied to, but I think a lot of people come by it naturally.

I also studied meditation, and Mary just mentioned bio-feedback. Let me think. There was something else too, but I can't remember right now.

You could always give bio-feedback a try. I had forgotten about that, until Mary just mentioned it now. It helped me a lot in learning to calm the inner beast. I worked hard to gain control over myself, and gain peace with living with Mary.

The biggest bump in overall peace though was studying philosophy. I don't like philosophy overall, but some of it is quite good.

Did you notice the thread I started about her in the mental health section? I wrote it so I don't go into much detail in other people's threads.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> Yes. And lies by omission do feel the same.
> 
> And by God, it does hurt.
> 
> I know.
> 
> Once I realized my wife could not change, I started taking philosophy courses at school. Worked my way through several. I had to find a way to deal with the rage I felt for the fact she could not just come out and say the truth.
> 
> In my wife's case, she never can. So I can say it is different than a single incident. My wife says I had a bad past girlfriend who created my rabid response to being lied to, but I think a lot of people come by it naturally.
> 
> I also studied meditation, and Mary just mentioned bio-feedback. Let me think. There was something else too, but I can't remember right now.
> 
> You could always give bio-feedback a try. I had forgotten about that, until Mary just mentioned it now. It helped me a lot in learning to calm the inner beast. I worked hard to gain control over myself, and gain peace with living with Mary.
> 
> The biggest bump in overall peace though was studying philosophy. I don't like philosophy overall, but some of it is quite good.
> 
> Did you notice the thread I started about her in the mental health section? I wrote it so I don't go into much detail in other people's threads.


I have not seen it but will go and have a look! At the doctors now. Going to get the panic attack meds he offered. Didn’t want to but so sick of this! I believe most people would have been over this little mistake long ago. At least when I start panicking over this I can take a pill. The anziety is starting to calm down now so hopefully I wont have to take any!


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## WilliamM

Mary suffered panic attacks for the first 18 years of our marriage. I know they are terrible to go through. It took us a long time to figure out what might be causing them because when I was home I could hold her and they would go away. 

When I wasn't home she would become terrified, and cry, and sometimes hide in a closet for hours.

She still likes to hide in dark places sometimes. But now she isn't afraid, she just finds it soothing. She laughs when I find her.


----------



## Diana7

GoingCrazy01 said:


> I have not seen it but will go and have a look! At the doctors now. Going to get the panic attack meds he offered. Didn’t want to but so sick of this! I believe most people would have been over this little mistake long ago. At least when I start panicking over this I can take a pill. The anziety is starting to calm down now so hopefully I wont have to take any!


When you get a panic attack make sure that you have a paper bag to hand and put it over your nose and mouth and breathe in and out for a time. It really helps. 
Also don't fight it or panic more because that will make it worse. Just go with it and let it flow over you and pass away. 
Its best not to take medication if you can avoid it as those drugs are addictive. By the time the tablets have worked the attack will have passed anyway.


----------



## WilliamM

As a matter of interest @GoingCrazy01, did the doctor mention how long it takes for a tablet to take effect?

I know when I wasn't home my wife's attacks would go on for a long time. She always managed to function enough to walk the children home from school, but sometimes they would call me and tell me Mommy was hurting. Mary would still be gripped in fear and crying her eyes out by the time I got home almost an hour later.


----------



## Diana7

WilliamM said:


> As a matter of interest @GoingCrazy01, did the doctor mention how long it takes for a tablet to take effect?
> 
> I know when I wasn't home my wife's attacks would go on for a long time. She always managed to function enough to walk the children home from school, but sometimes they would call me and tell me Mommy was hurting. Mary would still be gripped in fear and crying her eyes out by the time I got home almost an hour later.


The anxiety will go on if the person doesn't know how to handle panic attacks, but the actually attack isn't that long.


----------



## WilliamM

Mary was under the care of several of the best psychiatrists available in Northern California. 

The only thing she flatly refused to do was take medication for it.

She was put under hypnosis twice a week to work on dealing with her attacks. I personally believe they were very good at directing her in how to handle her panic attacks.

I think those professionals knew what they were doing.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

*Re: In your opinion.....*



GoingCrazy01 said:


> In your opinion what would constitute an emotional affair? What would be the least serious type of ea and what would be the most serious? How long do you think it takes for a friendship on average to turn into an ea? Guessing they usually start as just friends and would you leave over an ea? If so, how bad of an ea would it have to be and how long would it have to be going on for?


Could we get more context to this. The first part on what constitutes an emotional affair is usually started and begins with confiding in someone other than your spouse intimate things and then not telling your spouse about it and covering up that you did and not wanting them to know about it, which can mean deleting messages, putting on pass codes, etc. It usually starts when two people feel like they can be 'themselves' around someone of the opposite sex other than their spouse.


----------



## Diana7

There are simple practical ways to deal with them that you don't need psychiatrists to tell you.


----------



## WilliamM

*Re: In your opinion.....*

Wow.

Well, My wife had a physical affair and I did not leave her.

We have a hard time with the idea of separating Emotional Affair from close friendships.

I guess an EA is if someone tells another person about love and secrets they won't share with their spouse.

I would not leave my wife no matter what she did with anyone else unless she told me she was done with me. Even then I am not sure what my reaction might be. I have not gotten angry with her since the day I picked her up off the floor in her shrink's office in 1985. 

Mary fell in love with a woman once, in 1997. However, she did not hide anything from me. After Mary was over her heartbreak I moved out and filed for divorce. 

I had been telling Mary I don't understand her, but I accept her. Mary told me that only proved I didn't accept her. She said it certainly wasn't her choice to get divorced, only mine. Mary took it pretty well. After a while I decided Mary was right, and I was wrong.

Some years later Mary said the reason she wasn't upset by it was she was certain I wouldn't go through with it.

But we have lived a wild and crazy life. Mary had an affair. We did some swinging. Then we discovered Mary has a horrendously traumatic childhood. Then we discovered Mary is bisexual.

Every step of the way Mary has sworn she loves me. And she works hard to prove it. She does anything I need her to do for me, within her capabilities. 

So as long as she keeps doing that I suppose I might forgive her anything.


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## WilliamM

Obviously those methods don't work for everyone.

But it is easier to believe simple panaceas can be applied to every ailment, than to believe some issues are beyond the mundane.


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## lucy999

*Re: In your opinion.....*

The moment I figured out my partner's heart wasn't all in is the day I would pull the plug and leave. It could be merely chatting up another woman with flirtatious undertones. I have absolutely no desire to be with someone if they don't want to be with me in a monogamous relationship. 

For me, there would be no varying degrees of emo cheating. I view it as all the same: it's cheating. I know my worth and would move on.


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## Diana7

WilliamM said:


> Obviously those methods don't work for everyone.
> 
> But it is easier to believe simple panaceas can be applied to every ailment, than to believe some issues are beyond the mundane.


Panic attacks are panic attacks. Their symptoms are very similar in all who have them. Look it up.


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## Rob_1

@GoingCrazy01: I was re-reading your original post, and I see that you're still going at it. This is probably becoming an obsession. Careful, you might get what your obsessing for.


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## Prodigal

*Re: In your opinion.....*

You started the original thread on January 9. This one is in the same vein. Why not keep it to the original thread? I don't think multiple threads dealing with the same subject are permitted on TAM. As far as I know, a moderator can merge both of your threads.


----------



## frusdil

GoingCrazy01 said:


> My husband had been telling me not to take the meds! He thinks it’s a bad idea. He keeps trying to make me happy. I can see it. He doesn’t mention anything but is always keeping me close and trying to take care of me. He knows how hurt I am at him for not being very honest. *He says I am causing myself this pain *as nothing bad happened. He said the worst think is the fact he didn’t tell me right away. And yes _*it seems so stupid to take meds cause my husband became friends with a girl and didn’t tell me*_. When I say it it’s sounds stupid but I am so sick of my life Revolving around what they could have been talking about. It’s getting so old. Don’t want to work, don’t want to walk the dogs, don’t want to grocery shop. Just want to spend my days thinking and trying to put pieces together. It’s bad. I have to home school my daughter who is in grade 9. I have to get focused! I do feel a lot better than I did before. Has to be anziety though. Only felt like this one other time and it was because my dog died. I couldn’t get over it. It drove me nuts. It’s been 2 years and I didn’t stop crying. Finally got over that when this happened. I don’t even really believe in anziety until recently. I just want to be happy again! Thing is that we are better now than we have ever been! He is always planning weekend family events, texting all the time and calling on his way home. Buying flowers and taking me out! Always holding my hand and cuddling! I could have the perfect life with this man if I could just forget about this! I hate that it happened and he chose to have a friend and not tell me. It looks very suspicious but I haven’t found anything saying it was anything else. I hate that it happened but if it didn’t we wouldn’t be as happy as we are now. We would just be good like before not great. So I can’t even really say I would take it back. So confused! Oh my.


While I understand that OSF can be a boundary/issue for some couples, and that with OSF there are different boundaries that come with it, I honestly believe that you are overreacting here OP.

I don't believe your husband lied by ommission. Do you honestly tell him every single person you text??

I say this with kindness, I think you need to get some help to manage your issues. You don't cry over your lost dog every day for two years and then instantly get over it when a new issue crops up. The crying and anxiety wasn't about the death of your dog, it was about an issue that you have, somewhere deep down.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

*Re: In your opinion.....*



lucy999 said:


> The moment I figured out my partner's heart wasn't all in is the day I would pull the plug and leave. It could be merely chatting up another woman with flirtatious undertones. I have absolutely no desire to be with someone if they don't want to be with me in a monogamous relationship.
> 
> For me, there would be no varying degrees of emo cheating. I view it as all the same: it's cheating. I know my worth and would move on.


What if you knew for a fact there was no more than friendship happening but you had the feeling he may have been developing a crush on this friend. And he didn’t bother to tell you about his friend until you asked 2 weeks later. But he did stop communication after you asked. Would you leave over that? Been together faithfully for 15 years.


----------



## GoingCrazy01

*Re: In your opinion.....*



Rob_1 said:


> @GoingCrazy01: I was re-reading your original post, and I see that you're still going at it. This is probably becoming an obsession. Careful, you might get what your obsessing for.


Avoiding that at all costs. I do not speak with my husband over this. He thinks I am over it. I only speak about it on this forum.


----------



## Pantone429c

*Re: In your opinion.....*



GoingCrazy01 said:


> In your opinion what would constitute an emotional affair? What would be the least serious type of ea and what would be the most serious? How long do you think it takes for a friendship on average to turn into an ea? Guessing they usually start as just friends and would you leave over an ea? If so, how bad of an ea would it have to be and how long would it have to be going on for?




Wow.....I think that an emotional Affair is in many ways more threatening to a marriage than a physical one. As a man if I were involved with a woman emotionally that would be harder to walk away from that a hands on (no pun) sex.
I can’t speak for how a woman would feel but as a husband I would feel more threatened by an EA than if she had a fling that involved a romp in the sack......now if both were combined I’d probably be thinking about a divorce.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## GoingCrazy01

*Re: In your opinion.....*



Rob_1 said:


> @GoingCrazy01: I was re-reading your original post, and I see that you're still going at it. This is probably becoming an obsession. Careful, you might get what your obsessing for.


Ok sorry. I was just curious about general thoughts on what an emotional affair is. Not trying to start trouble!


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## lucy999

*Re: In your opinion.....*



GoingCrazy01 said:


> What if you knew for a fact there was no more than friendship happening but you had the feeling he may have been developing a crush on this friend. And he didn’t bother to tell you about his friend until you asked 2 weeks later. But he did stop communication after you asked. Would you leave over that? Been together faithfully for 15 years.


Do both of you usually have friends of the opposite sex? Is there some sort of agreement in place between both of you to not have them? I am familiar with your original thread over this issue. It sounds as though your husband is doing everything right after you confronted him. 

I don't think I would do anything without positive proof of something nefarious going on. While it can be very dangerous, I do believe that people at some point in their lives can develop crushes on people outside of their monogamous relationships. Obviously, the danger lies on whether they act on that crush. And, as for gut feelings, It's so easy for them to turn into straight up obession. 

I totally understand why you are analyzing this to death. I get it. I would keep both eyes open and see if this is a pattern with your husband. In the meantime, I think you should focus on the fact that your husband did everything you requested. Do not ignore his actions. From what you are telling us, his actions illustrate that he heard you and is acting in a way to make you feel more comfortable.


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## WilliamM

*Re: In your opinion.....*

I like trouble!

But I do think an EA is only if your spouse shares secrets with the other person, and says things to them they don't want you to know about.

And, with the intent to be emotionally attached to the person with whom you are speaking?

After all, what about your psychiatrist?

I never suspected Mary was having an Emotional Affair with any of her various psychiatrists. She told them things she never told me, she shared secrets about me as well as about herself.

But I don't think she ever fell in love with any of them, or told any of them she loved them.

Just something interesting, crazy, but interesting. Hey, I just want to keep your mind busy.

But when the heart is filled with love, then the eye is never deceived; for love when it gives, does not scrutinize the gift… When the heart is filled with envy, then the eye has power to call forth uncleanness even in the pure; but when love dwells in the heart, then the eye has the power to foster the good in the unclean; but this eye does not see the evil but the pure, which it loves and encourages it by loving it.

Also, consider, what is truth?

The equivalence principle looks familiar: it has something like the form of the Tarski biconditionals discussed in section 2.2. However, it is a stronger principle, which identifies the two sides of the biconditional – either their meanings or the speech acts performed with them. The Tarski biconditionals themselves are simply material biconditionals.

A number of deflationary theories look to the Tarski biconditionals rather than the full equivalence principle. Their key idea is that even if we do not insist on redundancy, we may still hold the following theses:

For a given language L and every φ in L, the biconditionals ⌈ ⌈ φ ⌉ is true if and only if φ ⌉ hold by definition (or analytically, or trivially, or by stipulation …).
This is all there is to say about the concept of truth.
We will refer to views which adopt these as minimalist. Officially, this is the name of the view of Horwich (1990), but we will apply it somewhat more widely. (Horwich's view differs in some specific respects from what is presented here, such as predicating truth of propositions, but we believe it is close enough to what is sketched here to justify the name.)

The second thesis, that the Tarski biconditionals are all there is to say about truth, captures something similar to the redundancy theory's view. It comes near to saying that truth is not a property at all; to the extent that truth is a property, there is no more to it than the disquotational pattern of the Tarski biconditionals. As Horwich puts it, there is no substantial underlying metaphysics to truth. And as Soames (1984) stresses, certainly nothing that could ground as far-reaching a view as realism or anti-realism.


----------



## Adelais

*Re: In your opinion.....*



GoingCrazy01 said:


> In your opinion what would constitute an emotional affair? What would be the least serious type of ea and what would be the most serious? *How long do you think it takes for a friendship on average to turn into an ea?* Guessing they usually start as just friends and would you leave over an ea? If so, how bad of an ea would it have to be and how long would it have to be going on for?


My husband's EA only took one conversation to begin. He was hooked within minutes, because she confided in him and made him feel important/like a white knight. She was his friend's wife before the conversation, and he had never looked at her "that way" until the fateful conversation.

EA's don't stay EA's. They eventually turn into "true love" or at least PA's. So I would not tolerate my husband being "friends" with any women, period. Can he have female acquaintances, yes. Can they talk about anything personal, which he would not tell me about word-for-word, no.

The same rule applies to me. No male "friends" in whom I would confide anything personal. Just male acquaintances. Only same sex friends.


----------



## Adelais

GoingCrazy01 said:


> Do you guys think I should contact this woman? My husband said it was ok. Just wondering if maybe I waited to long. It’s been months. Guessing she will think I am retarded contacting her months later when they don’t even talk anymore. And were only friends for 3 weeks in total. Stupid idea? Thought it might bring me some closure...


No, don't contact her. If you find they are texting again, confront your husband and figure out a way to see his deleted texts.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: In your opinion.....*

Yes, there are people who leave over an EA. Feelings are involved. To some, that's more of a betrayal than a few rounds of meaningless sex. As to how long it can take to go from friendship to an EA, that depends on the circumstances. And the people involved. For some it's immediate. For others it can take a long time. Or it may never happen at all even though one of them really wants it to. 

You will obviously never know what your husband is truly thinking. That was always the case but you likely didn't focus on it before. Now you do. It's hard to accept you don't know someone as well as you thought but you very rarely do. That face we show to the world can hide a lot. And once you've been given cause for concern, you think a lot more about what may be hidden.


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## sokillme

*Re: In your opinion.....*

OP has he stopped talking to this women? Here it the thing, I don't think it says anything about you or even your relationship if he developed feeling for someone else. That can happen, it's how he handled those feelings, and if he learned not to put himself in a position to act on them. Did he protect you? 

So what does his actions tell you?


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## Suspicious1

I've always have been surround by girls/women. 
Most of my cousins are of the opposite sex, I'm very close to one particular cousin that happend to be a woman. At the age of 12, my father showed up first time ever meeting him, along with 4 brand new sister, that instantly adored me.
I've live with two beautiful Amazonian sisters, they both had bf, one of them was my best friend that trust me and respect me. Both sis wdre super sweet, and care about me.

About 8, 9 years ago I met a coworker and hit it off, we were both two goofballs and joked about everything. I immediately told my bf at the time, it did not sound like she like this girl, I spoke to my friend so she would met my gal, my friend was incredibly receptive of all becoming friends, this included her new bf.
We went out to eat, we hang out at each others apartment, did birthday parties.
Yet my gf could not get pass me having a female friend.

I chalked this up to my gf insecurities, my friend was smart, had a great job, had her own office, dress well, spoke several languages ans was pretty. I never felt a thing for her romantically, because I respected her, and she respected me.
My gf hated our friendship, and I resented me having such a well rounded person as a friend. Which my S.O isn't no slouch either, as she is incredibly talented, she is bilingual, had s great job with two demanding (witches) sisters that owned the company that would praised her, and loved her. Not a small feat, as they had a difficult to work with reputation. My gf at the time now my wife is beautiful, sweet spoken, has a calm demeanor something I love.

The late arguments and the constant asking me if I hanged out with my coworker, was way too much. My friend was planing her wedding, and i knew someone who worked with high end wedding gown company. Things took a turn with my friends relationship, we were both trying to figure out what was going on with her fiancee, as he was showing symptoms of cheating.

My bf was becoming unbearable didn't want to hang out with both of us together.
Even 

A whole lot of things happened, she was my GF, and i thought it was a bit controlling at the time.
I finally cut off my friendship, I do things cold turkey. I recall speaking to my friend and her new bf, she sounded much better than before so I felt it was a gpod time to give her space and let her new relationship flourish.

I never told my gf we stop talking, she one day asked me about my friend I said don't know. She said yeah I don't see her on your social media pages. 
I said its been like that for months now, my gf didn't say anything. 

That was about 4 yeara ago, I recently saw my friend walking down the streets and we each said hi, and kepted moving. A few of her friends had asked what happen with us to as we were two peas in a pod. I told them thw truth, my gf wasn't comfortable with our friendship. What ever, I tend to feel it was controlling, we saw a counselor once and her name came up. From what I recall the C didn't see anything wrong, she told my gf that she had male friends, and her husban new about it.

Okay here's the kicker, all this time my then gf was chatting it up with her first bf, tons of emails, from what i recall 2003, 2004 they stop speaking and continue 2009, 2013, and recently from what I can tell. Lots of emotional conversation, him telling his situation crying abput how he did her wrong, asking my gf for money in some central America country, him getting some girl pregnant and marrying her, she telling him how angry she was at him getting into such situation. Talking about all sorts of things that makes my blood boil, yet never once mentioned me. I'm out the picture as if he had a chance if he wanted, all he had to say the word from what I got. It appeared they spoke a few times on the phone, I've found calling card with the area code of that godforsaken country.

I was transparent all through my friendship with my at the time gf, she knew her, would hang out with her, go to her house, etc.

Many here would say I had an EA with what I feel now was almost a family member, or a best friend.

What my then gf had was EA that dangerously played with fire. We spoke all about and she did not feel it was a one, and claim it was catching up to her old friend which I think its B.S.

But I'm the wrong one.




Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Walloped

Just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re going through this.


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## GoingCrazy01

*Re: In your opinion.....*



sokillme said:


> OP has he stopped talking to this women? Here it the thing, I don't think it says anything about you or even your relationship if he developed feeling for someone else. That can happen, it's how he handled those feelings, and if he learned not to put himself in a position to act on them. Did he protect you?
> 
> So what does his actions tell you?



His actions tell me that he loves me and wants me to be happy. It’s so obvious he is trying so hard. It’s crazy all he has done to try to fix this .


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## WilliamM

That bit about truth is just a sample of the stuff I had to study. That is from Stanford, some philosophy course.

After I studied that kind of stuff for over a year, I found one day I could finally stop worrying about what had happened that I hadn't seen. That sorted out my concerns about my wife's lying. 

It's tough, and there is no easy answer. We'll just keep on keeping on.

How did the doctor's appointment go?

Did you happen to get the answer to how long it takes for the medication to take effect if you do happen to think you need to use one?


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## GoingCrazy01

WilliamM said:


> That bit about truth is just a sample of the stuff I had to study. That is from Stanford, some philosophy course.
> 
> After I studied that kind of stuff for over a year, I found one day I could finally stop worrying about what had happened that I hadn't seen. That sorted out my concerns about my wife's lying.
> 
> It's tough, and there is no easy answer. We'll just keep on keeping on.
> 
> How did the doctor's appointment go?
> 
> Did you happen to get the answer to how long it takes for the medication to take effect if you do happen to think you need to use one?


I was given a pill for panic attacks. They work instantly. Probably should throw them out as they are too good. I can see them being very addictive! They make you feel very happy very fast! Lol. Trying to take the days now and think about all the things he did right instead of the few things he did wrong. Have been reading others posts and realizing how lucky I am that he didn’t actually cheat and that he was forthcoming with telling me about her when I asked. Also, trying to stay positive because of all the remorse he is showing. He is still trying so very hard! Things are perfect now except for this issue of trust. I do trust him but still sad about what he did. Oh well. I don’t think this is divorce territory so only thing left to do is to move on! We leave for Mexico next week so helpfully that will help me push this out of my mind!


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## WilliamM

Keep working on you.

For me to get to the point I could stop dwelling on the things I could not know took years.

But Mary’s issues were worse. Still, trust is trust. 

Keep up the good fight!


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## lisamaree

I think it depends on your husband. I do not take well to my husband having female friends. He has had two EAs several years ago that all started out as friends and progressed to much more. He knows I become suspicious when he has any type of relationship with women now so he keeps a distance with them. My husband is charming and flirtatious with women, it gives them the wrong idea. In one of his EAs he claims he didn’t even know the OW felt that way about him until one day she propositioned to him and he cut all contact then. The first EA he had was bad though, the OW tried to convince him I was a terrible person all while pretending to be a loyal and caring friend. So it really just depends.


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## GoingCrazy01

lisamaree said:


> I think it depends on your husband. I do not take well to my husband having female friends. He has had two EAs several years ago that all started out as friends and progressed to much more. He knows I become suspicious when he has any type of relationship with women now so he keeps a distance with them. My husband is charming and flirtatious with women, it gives them the wrong idea. In one of his EAs he claims he didn’t even know the OW felt that way about him until one day she propositioned to him and he cut all contact then. The first EA he had was bad though, the OW tried to convince him I was a terrible person all while pretending to be a loyal and caring friend. So it really just depends.


He just keeps telling me they were just friends and there was never any intentions to go further. He says she never once tried to take him from me and thy he confirmed they were just friends texting in the beginning.


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## GoingCrazy01

Walloped said:


> Just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re going through this.



Thankyou very much ...


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