# Over-initiating sex, especially when you are not in the mood.



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OK...

I caught myself doing this the other day, being playful with my wife and insinuating to my wife that we were about to be getting it on and for her to get ready. BUT, I was not even in the mood and this comes from an old pattern of behavior from when my wife would often reject me. And that is to initiate sex when I am not in the mood so that I will not get my feelings hurt when she says no. I honestly think this dynamic happens in a great deal of marriages, and I have even read about it in some books on sexuality.

Now that things have been improving, my wife rolled her eyes and looked at me. She said that when I say things like that (get ready to get it on later tonight), that it is not good for our marriage. She could tell I was not in the mood, and to be honest I could tell she was very upset about something from her day (family drama with her mom over the holidays). But when she said that me being playful like that hurts our marriage, I could not help to be overcome by an old rush of feelings wondering why she just can't be a little more playful.

...I had to stop for a moment, let go of all my old feelings of insecurity that make me feel unwanted and just try to be honest with my wife about why I would make a comment like that. So I thought to myself and told her the following. I told her that I was definitely not in the mood and that I could tell that she was not either. I admitted my comment was inappropriate but that at times when I can tell that we are both in an ill mood that it actually would be nice to try and distract ourselves with the idea of sex. I told her that I had no expectations and that I would enjoy feeling closer to her.

Well that completely changed her mood. She moved over next to me on the couch, began to share her bowl of popcorn, and I could tell she too needed to feel me closer to her. We had a very open conversation about the ideas of initiating sex when we were both in an ill mood as a way to try and help ourselves feel better. We ended up having a great evening.

So my inappropriate comments about sex when I feel distant from my wife, ironically are actually made at times when I do want to feel closer to her emotionally. Meanwhile my libido was dormant and could easily sustain rejection, but my emotions not so much. While I am glad I am learning to communicate better and that my wife is being patient with me during moments like these, I could so easily see the death spiral I would have gone into a year ago that would have sent me to bed feeling cold and unwanted. Had she actually been OK with sex when I made that comment, I would have probably gone for it with my lackluster libido which would in turn have made her feel undesired. 

This is actually a hard habit to break, but I'm learning. Thought I would share and ask others how often you think you or your spouse may be initiating sex when they don't even want it, just so that it will not hurt as bad when the idea is rejected? Then in reality it hurts even more because you realize how emotionally distant you are with your spouse. 

I would actually be interested in hearing both sides of this story from others, as I am still working out my ways to break this habit.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You make my head hurt. Can you not tell your wife that you want to be close to her without going the sex route first?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> You make my head hurt. Can you not tell your wife that you want to be close to her without going the sex route first?


Like I said, it is a bad habit. 

If you were married to me with all my bad behaviors and I said to you, "I want to feel closer to you, can I have a hug..." well even if I were being completely honest this would have been likely done at a time when I was guilty *over-initiating nonsexual intimacy as a way to manipulate my wife into having sex. *

One of the biggest historical complaints I get from my wife when this would happen is, "can't you just be honest and tell me you need sex?" 

Because it is easy to get rejected for sex when I would not even really initiate it, but instead just ask for a hug or for her to be closer. So to date when I ask for a hug, my wife is skeptical. 

Yes, I'm sorry that this would probably make your head hurt even worse. 

I guess I have two habits to break!

Badsanta


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Add overcomplicating things that should be innate, natural, and simple to the list.










If I had to take a deeper guess, I would say you're insecure about your future sexuality wise with your wife (especially after reading TAM for a while  ) and seek validation by (from her view point) seeking sexual and not so sexual contact. 

It's great that you're having lots of conversation about it, but once again, think about what it looks like from her standpoint.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

To me it looks like you have twisted yourself into a pretzel because you and your wife have such mismatched sexual desire and needs for each other. It sounds like a big mind game. Initiating when you aren't when in the mood. Initiating non sexual touch in hopes of manipulating it into a sexual experience.

It sounds to me like your wife basically controls the situation. You have become twisted this way as a consequence of her not wanting to work with you, compromise, with her truly caring about you getting your needs met to a satisfactory degree. Without her truly caring about your heart. You seem like a really nice and caring and giving and upstanding man. She doen't seem to care that the man she is married to has come to resort to such behaviors. Not really caring and feeling it, in her heart and soul that it has come to this.

You can't make her into someone she isn't. She either cares to change things or not on her own, you can't make her. So far she has not. 

I have no advice except that I would not be able to live like this forever. You might want to for various reasons. Sorry you are in this situation. It sounds painful.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's sustainable now, as long as the repertoire of mind games has some inventory left. Once the novelty of approach #65536 wears off and you roll back to #0 then it's too late. 

I think deep down that's what his fear is, and it's well justified.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Interesting problem.

Mrs. Conan and I have a pact.

Either of us will have sex if the other is in the mood and we committed to have sex even if neither of us is in the mood if a week or more has passed without some nookie.

We always cuddle and touch and she has come a long way with keeping sexual tensions up by being playful where it was usually me in the past.

It sounds like you two are gaining ground in the communication department and that is awesome!🙆

Keep up the good work!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Regardless of whether either of us executed the initiation of sexual activity, I've had two W's who were very often adept at playing the precursory sexual games, getting you along to the point of having you think that you're going to be getting some, and then summarily shutting your water off with such conveniences like "I've got a headache," "the kids are in the house," or "I'm sorry, honey, but Aunt Martha's here for her monthly visit!" 

So rightly or wrongly, I just quit trying because I just became tired of the buildup and then the ultimate coup de tat of the final rejection! 

And to this very day, it has a most discernible effect on me, in that I subconsciously refuse to even try to meet any new woman because I figure that they all basically exercise the same flippant behavior!

Games like these are little more than a deliberate precursor for some self-serving "power play" or "bait and switch!"

Notwithstanding, it really didn't detract either of my willing, unfaithful wives from covertly spreading their thighs off in some other domain for someone other than their husband, however!*


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

badsanta said:


> BUT, I was not even in the mood.
> 
> She could tell I was not in the mood, and to be honest I could tell she was very upset about something from her day (family drama with her mom over the holidays). But when she said that me being playful like that hurts our marriage.
> 
> I admitted my comment was inappropriate but that at times when I can tell that we are both in an ill mood that it actually would be nice to try and distract ourselves with the idea of sex. I told her that I had no expectations and that I would enjoy feeling closer to her.


You were being emotionally needy, looking for a way to distract yourself. 



> Well that completely changed her mood. She moved over next to me on the couch, began to share her bowl of popcorn, and I could tell she too needed to feel me closer to her. We had a very open conversation about the ideas of initiating sex when we were both in an ill mood as a way to try and help ourselves feel better. We ended up having a great evening.


Once you admitted your feelings and were honest things got better, both of you could relax then. And you both had a great evening! 



> So my inappropriate comments about sex when I feel distant from my wife, ironically are actually made at times when I do want to feel closer to her emotionally. Meanwhile my libido was dormant and could easily sustain rejection, but my emotions not so much. While I am glad I am learning to communicate better and that my wife is being patient with me during moments like these, I could so easily see the death spiral I would have gone into a year ago that would have sent me to bed feeling cold and unwanted. Had she actually been OK with sex when I made that comment, I would have probably gone for it with my lackluster libido which would in turn have made her feel undesired.


Sometimes sex doesn't cure our ill moods when one is looking for emotional support, saying inappropriate comments gets you negative attention, but attention is what you seek not sex. 



> This is actually a hard habit to break, but I'm learning. Thought I would share and ask others how often you think you or your spouse may be initiating sex when they don't even want it, just so that it will not hurt as bad when the idea is rejected? Then in reality it hurts even more because you realize how emotionally distant you are with your spouse.


It is a bad habit, kind of selfish and needy, please don't think that I'm being harsh, I don't mean as an insult to you. 

I often seek sex not because I'm actually aroused but because I'm feeling emotionally distant and believe that some physical activity will cure me, but actually I seek some affection (just to be hugged and held) and some conversation so I can feel connected with him again. 

Being needy isn't sexy at all. Remember that. 

Being honest about your mood with your spouse is probably the best remedy. It will save hours spent on tantrums about being and feeling rejected. 


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *Regardless of whether either of us executed the initiation of sexual activity, I've had two W's who were very often adept at playing sexual games, getting you along to the point of having you think that you're getting some, and then summarily shutting your water off with such conveniences like "I've got a headache," "the kids are in the house," or "I'm sorry, honey, but Aunt Martha's here for her monthly visit!"
> 
> So rightly or wrongly, I just quit trying because I just became tired of the buildup and then the ultimate coup de tat of rejection!
> 
> ...


Not every woman exercises the same sexually flippant behavior. And there are men who do this same thing. 

I think you should try to meet a new woman, don't shut yourself off because of these ex wives. Just be on the lookout for red flags and end things when you see them and they aren't quickly resolved!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Livvie said:


> You can't make her into someone she isn't. She either cares to change things or not on her own, you can't make her. So far she has not.


Things actually have been changing between us, but now that I catch myself engaging in old behaviors (humans are creatures of habit), I can actually look at them from a completely different perspective. 

Neither of us (me or my wife) have changed so to speak, but we have adapted our perspectives and how we look at situations now. She too is a creature of habit, thus @Fozzy's statement of "wash, rinse, & repeat" (I think he said that once) analogy the ups and downs of sexual mismatches. 

She does however now take me more seriously when we discuss the topic of sex. In return I try to be patient, open and honest versus allowing myself to become frustrated and upset or try to play games of manipulation. When it comes to playing games of manipulation, I am now open about that too, as sometimes when done playfully it can be fun!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Yes, I'm sorry that this would probably make your head hurt even worse."

You got that right. You've been playing games for so long in an attempt to get laid that you don't seem to be able to articulate what your needs are at any given moment with your wife. All she hears is "sex, sex, sex, sex, sex.....".

How about a New Year's Resolution wherein you endeavor to be honest with your wife in what you are seeking. If she still won't put out as much as you want, work on that in counseling. 

Is it my imagination or do you use sex as a bandaid for all of your feelings? Sex may take your mind off of things for a little while but it doesn't address the underlying need.

Hoping you have a wonderful 2017 - full of hugs, kisses, pats on the butt and great sex.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> "Yes, I'm sorry that this would probably make your head hurt even worse."
> 
> *You got that right. You've been playing games for so long in an attempt to get laid that you don't seem to be able to articulate what your needs are at any given moment with your wife. All she hears is "sex, sex, sex, sex, sex.....".*
> 
> ...


You probably hit the nail on the head that everything I do comes across as "sex, sex, sex, sex, sex......" and gives credence to my wife's claims that my libido behaves completely arbitrarily as opposed to being attributed to my desire for her. She admits that she is not perfect for all her past rejections of me, nor am I for all my games of manipulation to get more sex.

Do I use sex as a bandaid for all my feelings? No, I do not think I do that at all! If anything I have avoided sex with my wife when my feelings where hurt or if I wanted sex as a way to adjust my attitude. Many times I desire sex while under stress as a way to calm myself, and I have purposely avoided initiating sex in favor of masturbation because I know my wife does not work this way (she needs to be calm and relaxed). Also when I am stressed is a time when I am least able to cope with rejection in the event she needs to push me away and have her own space. ...while I still feel it is a bad idea to initiate sex when I am stressed, I do want to have a conversation about this part of my personality with my wife to see if there is a way we could better handle that. As for my OP, I was not stressed but more depressed which is rare for me when I am around my wife. I am generally an upbeat guy with no time to waste wallowing in pity. When I do get my feelings hurt, I am quick to forgive (my wife not so much, she holds grudges for days/weeks). 

Thanks for the New Year's wishes! I do still have plenty to work on!

Badsanta


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Not every woman exercises the same sexually flippant behavior. And there are men who do this same thing.
> 
> I think you should try to meet a new woman, don't shut yourself off because of these ex wives. Just be on the lookout for red flags and end things when you see them and they aren't quickly resolved!


* @Livvie ~ I know all too well that there are men who go about exercising this very same modus operandi so much better than women ever do!

And unlike my dear friend, @badsanta ~ I just consider myself so fortunate as not to willingly wallow in pity, but to greatly consider my removal from learning to retrust new and attractive women to be a blessing, in and of itself, knowing all too well that God did not ever intend for it to be that way!

And thanks so very much for your erstwhile advise, Sweetheart! But old habits do die hard, more especially those that you've been so acrimoniously subjected to over the due course of your marriage! 

I reckon that I'll just have to pray long and earnestly about it!*


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

When it is down to one person to keep sex going there is a temptation to 'try too hard' (my H's words towards me). I sometimes initiate when I shouldn't, or put too much effort into seduction often when I am not really that horny and I know he isn't or does not have time for sex.

I'm not sure why I do this. Maybe it is just validation that I am wanted and desired - more than actually having sex. I am going to slow down and stop being the pursuer for a while. H has agreed (for a time) to initiate sex when he needs it, and I have agreed to trust him to come to me when he is ready. I think it boils down to trust. To trust he still desires me and that he will come to ME when he needs intimacy, and for him to trust that I will be sincere as to my own needs.

I think the games you describe come about when communication is not trustworthy. So you just play and see what develops.

Do you think that reading TAM encourages over-initiation? I certainly think it does for me.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

peacem said:


> Do you think that reading TAM encourages over-initiation? I certainly think it does for me.


Unfortunately I do think TAM allows many to momentarily live vicariously through others. It is like a big meeting of frustrated HD folks trying our best to help each other and share perspectives & experiences with the opposite sex for learning and feedback. Then before we know it an HD husband somehow convinces himself to follow the advice of an HD female to improve the opportunities for sex with his LD wife (or vice versa), kind of like the blind leading the blind. But yet there is always something valuable to learn when you visit a place that you'll never see!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Which one do you think drove the cab?


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

@badsanta - I've made a complete mess of things over the Christmas holidays. But I think being able to recognise your mistakes, admit them and move forward positively is an amazing thing. Your wife appears to be more aware of what is going on than you sometimes make out :smile2: - . Remember that she likely feels inadequate with your initiating and having to turn you down. Rather than getting angry at you she shared her popcorn and talked to you. This is most definitely an improvement from both sides.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

peacem said:


> When it is down to one person to keep sex going there is a temptation to 'try too hard' (my H's words towards me). I sometimes initiate when I shouldn't, or put too much effort into seduction often when I am not really that horny and I know he isn't or does not have time for sex.
> .


It does happen like this...for a while. Then after a person has their fill of being the only one to keep sex going, it just becomes a job. The magic disappears, and so does any incentive to keep trying.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> It does happen like this...for a while. Then after a person has their fill of being the only one to keep sex going,* it just becomes a job*. The magic disappears, and so does any incentive to keep trying.


Unfortunately for me, I am a little _too good_ at the job of keeping things going. 

One of my sports at being unashamed of my sexuality was that my wife REFUSED to let me spend any money on buying adult novelties. She claimed that it was nothing but offensive garbage and a waste of money. So I downloaded apps to my phone that allowed me to collect rebates during grocery shopping. I would often cash in my rewards points for about a $50 Amazon gift card, and I did this on a few occasions and would go crazy buying all kinds of sexual novelties. My wife would get furious as all the shipping notifications would go to her phone, and I would claim that everything was free as my reward for doing all the grocery shopping. Then she would get even more upset when things would arrive and I would use something with her and she actually would reluctantly admit to me that she liked it! 

Just picture my wife wanting to stay angry about enjoying something, but then telling me that if it were not for me being so freaking stubborn about things that she would have never gotten to experience some of the crazy things we try in the bedroom that she admits she now likes. 

Her claim to fame recently is that she has never had to bother with her own self exploration because she chose someone willing to do all that for her. All she has to do is lay back and get upset until inevitably I not only hit the right button, but I find buttons she did not even know she had! Now I admit, it makes "the job" all worth while when that happens. I imagine it feels exactly how Todd Hoffman on Gold Rush feels after going through one colossal failure after another that he suddenly hits so much gold that it is ridiculous! 










So I keep going back in search for even more poon's gold season after season! What is it I have to hit next year, 1000 pounces or more? 

Badsanta


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Her claim to fame recently is that she has never had to bother with her own self exploration because she chose someone willing to do all that for her. All she has to do is lay back and get upset until inevitably I not only hit the right button, but I find buttons she did not even know she had!
> 
> Badsanta


On my list of things that would turn me on, that would fall roughly on par with ASPCA commercials featuring starving dogs in icy cages.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ugh. This is exhausting. Yet I read on, slowing down to see if anyone survived the wreckage.

And the I see @badsanta bonking Mrs Clause in the back of the overturned SUV. Hey whatever floats your guyses boats 


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

No. Imho TAM doesn't breed "over initiation " referred to
Earlier. &#55357;&#56898;


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