# What is so hard??



## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Today I was reading a book while lying in bed. My husband wanted to make love, so he took my book away and started kissing me. As my husband began to strip my clothes off, I realized that I was tired and not in the mood for sex. We made love despite this because there is no harm in making my husband happy, even if I may not feel like sex. We had a great time and I simply had a long nap afterwards. :smthumbup:

I have a rule about not rejecting my husband, unless I absolutely *must *do so. Except for illness and extreme fatigue, I believe that there is no need to refuse him. After all, there is nobody else that should be fullfilling my husband's sexual needs except his wife. It becomes a slippery slope when couples start to say no all the time, just because they may not be "in the mood" for something. 

What is so hard about having sex when we may not always want to? Even if a spouse doesn't want to have sex when they are approached, isn't it easy to get into something so pleasurable and beautiful? I feel so sad when I read about all the sexless marriages on TAM.  Sometimes I think that the sexually reluctant spouses are being rather selfish and unfair. I can understand not wanting to be intimate if infidelity or childbirth has recently occured, but withholding for selfish reasons solves nothing.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

What is so hard?
My husband, hopefully


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

There are lots of reasons, I just gave one in a reply in another thread - mommy mode. Some women never leave mommy mode, long after their kids last diaper has been changed and they've gone off to school for full days. There is always something to obsess and worry over, and it consumes them to the point they are spent at the end of the day and have no need for anyone as selfish as a husband who may want some of your time and energy.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

"he took my book away and started kissing me"....
Truly a confident and aggresive man. Took the time to get you aroused, and was confident in letting you know what he wanted.

I am trying to understand that some women might have gotten angry and snatched the book back, or whatever. But I doubt it. 
If he's kissing you properly... you are DONE. Awesome.

I don't understand it much either. All I can say is that if my husband tries to kiss me, I turn my head and get even more MAD. That happened yesterday. Only because as much as I don't love him.... if he approached me with such confidence, I would fold like a stack of cards. 
6 months ago, I would have been elated if he had pulled such a move.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

NeverAgain12 said:


> There are lots of reasons, I just gave one in a reply in another thread - mommy mode. Some women never leave mommy mode, long after their kids last diaper has been changed and they've gone off to school for full days. There is always something to obsess and worry over, and it consumes them to the point they are spent at the end of the day and have no need for anyone as selfish as a husband who may want some of your time and energy.


I'm a parent too. I went through that. But it does change. And you need to make time. I didn't do dishes every night or other things for many years. Firstly.. they would be there tomorrow. And I chose to either play with my son or my SO instead. There are things you can let go of. Eventually your kids get old enough to help with the house too. I discovered that being intimate was a good stress break for me too. I deserved to pamper myself too, didn't I? Same with choosing to go to bed really early on a Thursday night, to heck with dishes. Then I had more energy on Friday night for date night!


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## ohiodude (Jan 25, 2012)

Beautifully stated!
: )


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

resentment is a big mood killer. first you give in that wonderful dug "drama", and thats a fast to not "right fighting"...

then resentment moves into your house. it can take YEARS to fix old resentments and to resolve and understand "triggers".

and figuring out love languages, finally having a discussion without yelling, and actually talking about things from years ago, and coming to an understanding.

if both people dont want to do the work, then resentment, triggers never go away.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

deejov said:


> "he took my book away and started kissing me"....
> Truly a confident and aggresive man. Took the time to get you aroused, and was confident in letting you know what he wanted.
> 
> I am trying to understand that some women might have gotten angry and snatched the book back, or whatever. But I doubt it.
> ...


I never snatch back whatever I am doing, if my husband has taken it out of my hands to be affectionate. I can read later; there is lovemaking to enjoy and that comes first. 

My husband is confident, but assertive rather than aggressive. He is very gentle and romantic, yet very intense when he wants to entice me. Perfect mix of alpha/beta characteristics.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

A fine example of what I believe is an underlying issue with sex in a marriage. FirstYearDown, your hubby found your triggers. He knows how to get you in the mood, and he does it. So you respond, with enthusiam.

What would you have done if he had stood next to the bed and shook his weenie at you and said "can I have a bj"?
(ok, if that works for you... insert another example ha ha)


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Today I was reading a book while lying in bed. My husband wanted to make love, so he took my book away and started kissing me. As my husband began to strip my clothes off, I realized that I was tired and not in the mood for sex. We made love despite this because there is no harm in making my husband happy, even if I may not feel like sex. We had a great time and I simply had a long nap afterwards. :smthumbup:
> 
> I have a rule about not rejecting my husband, unless I absolutely *must *do so. Except for illness and extreme fatigue, I believe that there is no need to refuse him. After all, there is nobody else that should be fullfilling my husband's sexual needs except his wife. It becomes a slippery slope when couples start to say no all the time, just because they may not be "in the mood" for something.
> 
> What is so hard about having sex when we may not always want to? Even if a spouse doesn't want to have sex when they are approached, isn't it easy to get into something so pleasurable and beautiful? I feel so sad when I read about all the sexless marriages on TAM.  Sometimes I think that the sexually reluctant spouses are being rather selfish and unfair. I can understand not wanting to be intimate if infidelity or childbirth has recently occured, but withholding for selfish reasons solves nothing.


You are a blessed woman... I am sure there are both men and women on these boards that would love to have what you enjoy.

For either men or women, if there is no respect, no honor, no regard, no trust, no reliance for either or both spouses, for whatever reason or cause, unless these are resolved... the marriage bed is a very difficult place. I would not call these selfish... but the fundamental and foundation of any relationship.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

deejov said:


> A fine example of what I believe is an underlying issue with sex in a marriage. FirstYearDown, your hubby found your triggers. He knows how to get you in the mood, and he does it. So you respond, with enthusiam.
> 
> What would you have done if he had stood next to the bed and shook his weenie at you and said "can I have a bj"?
> (ok, if that works for you... insert another example ha ha)



:lol::lol:

He never has to ask for a BJ, so the approach you mentioned would just make me laugh. 

Some of my triggers include dirty talk and being "taken"...love to be gently overpowered by my husband's overwhelming desire. 

He loves dirty talk too, so I call him at work and tell him things that I won't write here. 

Mommy Mode is one of the reasons we will not be having kids. Although it is possible to have a great sex life with children, we love all the freedom and spontaneity which being childfree affords to us.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Today I was reading a book while lying in bed. My husband wanted to make love, so he took my book away and started kissing me. As my husband began to strip my clothes off, I realized that I was tired and not in the mood for sex. We made love despite this because there is no harm in making my husband happy, even if I may not feel like sex. We had a great time and I simply had a long nap afterwards. :smthumbup:
> 
> I have a rule about not rejecting my husband, unless I absolutely *must *do so. Except for illness and extreme fatigue, I believe that there is no need to refuse him. After all, there is nobody else that should be fullfilling my husband's sexual needs except his wife. It becomes a slippery slope when couples start to say no all the time, just because they may not be "in the mood" for something.
> 
> What is so hard about having sex when we may not always want to? Even if a spouse doesn't want to have sex when they are approached, isn't it easy to get into something so pleasurable and beautiful? I feel so sad when I read about all the sexless marriages on TAM.  Sometimes I think that the sexually reluctant spouses are being rather selfish and unfair. I can understand not wanting to be intimate if infidelity or childbirth has recently occured, but withholding for selfish reasons solves nothing.


:smthumbup:

Awesome how you and your husband connected!

I empathize with all of the posters who have issues in their marriage and are trying to resolve them, but, I realize that we do only get to see half the picture on TAM. From my view, it's like trying to put a puzzle together with only half the pieces there and no idea what the picture of the puzzle is.

We don't really know what is going on in the marriage and in the other spouse's life and heart to know whether they are being selfish or unfair (and it's not really up to us to judge anyway because we are not walking in their shoes).

It would be great if we could see both spouse's point of view. That has always been most enlightening when it has happened. 

Henry Ford said "_If there is any one secret of success, it lies in the ability to get the other person's point of view and see things from his angle as well as your own_."

And that is true whether advising on TAM, but most especially for the spouse who is posting and trying to work at resolving their marital issues. If they can truly see where the other person is coming from, their own perception and understanding will be expanded and a way forward may present itself.

They may see their spouse, their marriage, and especially themself in a very different light - as I think that problems in a marriage are like reflections - problems and issues get reflected back and forth many times between the spouses much like seeing the reflection of a mirror in a mirror.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Everyone judges others whether we want to admit it or not, Enchantment.

Why can't the withholding spouses, have empathy for their sex starved husbands and wives? It goes both ways.

I suppose it is harder for me to understand since I have a high drive.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Me & mine even connect when one is sick, so long as we can breath and he can get it up, it's on. (stomach aches, tiredness, feeling like one has been beat up & left for dead -we are out of the game)...

The other night he told me I had to get on top cause if he was , he'd drip in my face... so there was my invitation. You'd think we'd catch each others colds... sometimes we do, but crazy as it may sound , most of the time we don't....we just take the risk anyway. We want to be together that much...and no, seriously I am not pushing him either, I have tamed considerably.

We do all tend to speak out of our own experiences... but that is what is wonderful here, the posters can have a vareity of perspectives ...generally something said by someone may resonate with them, their particular situation-that is not like anyone elses. It would be no good if we were all the same. 

But true, we are seem to be geared tawards certain perspectives as we see time & time again here ... ..since I have been on both sides of this ....... and know how difficult it is to be HIGH DRIVE and crave the emotional with the physical....with an intensity that could have ruined my marraige if I was rejected on a regular basis, how could I not , in good conscience share what that was like ....I can't just lay that down.... I am compelled to speak on it... as I feel other high drivers are feeling the same. BUt as those high drivers, we must do our part in what they are "needing" in addition, going out of our way to please. 

A couple weeks ago, we talked about this again, delving into how HE felt when I was not there enough...... hearing the resentment he built -while I thought we were happy, I felt like the biggest fool, our marraige a sham... I wanted to KNOW , I wanted to hear it all, but it was not easy to hear.

I know what lack of sex can do to a man, even the best of men (and I don't feel they all are missing something in the relationship) , if we care, we won't do this to those we love. 

I'll never do it again, I am a new woman.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Everyone judges others whether we want to admit it or not, Enchantment.
> 
> Why can't the withholding spouses, have empathy for their sex starved husbands and wives? It goes both ways.
> 
> I suppose it is harder for me to understand since I have a high drive.


We can always try our best, though, to be as non-judgmental as possible - heaven only knows we all have our own set of trials and tribulations. 

I think RoseRed had a very good point - if the foundations of the marriage are cracked and in disrepair, those will need to be fixed first - respect, trust, commitment, communication - those all need to be there to some degree for a sustainable intimate relationship to flourish.

Yesterday there was a discussion in another thread about how if the lower drive spouse would just have sex it would solve all the problems. But it would only solve the higher drive's problem with sex, and it wouldn't necessarily solve the other person's issues or the issues in the marriage overall.

Both of the people have to be willing to work at solving whatever the issues are - and that usually involves more than just one having sex with the other, although in some cases that can be a start, if the lower drive spouse has a willing heart and the foundations of the marriage are mostly secure.


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

deejov said:


> I'm a parent too. I went through that. But it does change. And you need to make time. I didn't do dishes every night or other things for many years. Firstly.. they would be there tomorrow. And I chose to either play with my son or my SO instead. There are things you can let go of. Eventually your kids get old enough to help with the house too. I discovered that being intimate was a good stress break for me too. I deserved to pamper myself too, didn't I? Same with choosing to go to bed really early on a Thursday night, to heck with dishes. Then I had more energy on Friday night for date night!


Thanks for the response, sounds like you made a real effort at keeping the love alive. In my house:

- there is no way the kitchen isn't spotless after dinner, unless someone required an emergency room visit. My wife could not go on to the next task without everything done. And I do help - A LOT.

- the remainder of the night entails making lunches for the next day, folding clothes up in our bedroom, showering, reading, talking on phone, etc. Starts yawning at 8:30-9 pm.

- there are no date nights. I used to beg her to go out and stressed that we needed our own time and she doesn't trust the apples of her eye with anyone but family and one friend. Used to watch the clock while at dinner when we did go out, talk only about the kids and go right back home. Completely insulting to me, so I stopped asking her to go. Would talk to her mother/sister/friend about the kids when we got back, the night was over for me.

- Would not stay overnight even one night without the kids. Married 18 years and every vacation/short trip involves the kids. Even if we had separate rooms, no sex. "Hotels are gross and I'm not comfortable" is the reason.

- has no problem with the kids coming back home after college as long as they want. can't imagine life in the house without them.

Year after year of this crap and I don't see her sexually anymore. She's made several comments about my not "liking" her anymore. I said how can I in such a dysfunctional marriage, it's pretty obvious I'm last in this house but at least I'm good to have around to support her lifestyle, with kids in private school but it's never enough - wants a shore house. What a *****.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Our sex life does not suffer, even if we are going through difficult times. We have come a long way with learning how to communicate negative feelings lovingly and respectfully. Even when my husband and I were arguing a lot and neither of us felt understood, we never let those feelings get in the way of enjoying lovemaking. 

Sometimes it is difficult for the higher drive spouse to be attentive emotionally, when they are battling their own deep resentment from lack of sex. I don't think people consider how difficult it must be for the HD spouse!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

HA! Hubs asked for a BJ once. It was sooo sweet too. He had a rough day and came home and said all he wanted was a beer and a bj. Bring it on! :lol:

Normally, he's like Firstyeardown's husband. Although, it's just natural for us to be within arms length of each other and start fooling around.

I can see if there is tension between a couple that it would NOT work well to just assume it's sexy time just because I'm awake  

but I don't turn hubs down...unless dripping from my nose (which has happened lately). 

With my ex, if he even insinuated sex, I was repulsed. He was just so unattractive because he was so mean and selfish.

I get both sides. I guess it all depends on the dynamics of the partnership and love between the people.

For us, it's just natural to be sexual at the drop of a hat, even though we have children. We locked the door this morning and had our fun. I came out to cook breakfast...feelin great


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Our sex life does not suffer, even if we are going through difficult times. We have come a long way with learning how to communicate negative feelings lovingly and respectfully. Even when my husband and I were arguing a lot and neither of us felt understood, we never let those feelings get in the way of enjoying lovemaking.
> 
> Sometimes it is difficult for the higher drive spouse to be attentive emotionally, when they are battling their own deep resentment from lack of sex. I don't think people consider how difficult it must be for the HD spouse!


Yea, even through our worst times, our sex was tender and affectionate and amazing. I guess we found our matches!


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Neveragain12.... pass me that oar....my turn to do some paddling now...you chill out.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> Everyone judges others whether we want to admit it or not, Enchantment.
> 
> Why can't the withholding spouses, have empathy for their sex starved husbands and wives? It goes both ways.
> 
> I suppose it is harder for me to understand since I have a high drive.


I have always been a high drive person too. I'm a two time a day kinda woman. And sometimes I would take care of my self on top of the two times a day. My friends have been calling me a nympho since highschool. But I haven't had sex since the beginning of last October. Why you ask? Because of the way my now stbxh treats me inside and outside the bedroom. Put simply just because I love sex doesn't mean I love having it with someone who refuses to work on our issues. If I wanted to **** an a$$hole I already have one lol. Don't need two.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Women call it 'multitasking' but it's really just ADD.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It's not ADD! We get it done! I know ADD...in my class and my own daughter. They start things, but don't finish.

I multitask. I can be online, cook dinner, clean the kitchen, fold laundry and make lunches for the next day...all within an hour.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Today I was reading a book while lying in bed. My husband wanted to make love, so he took my book away and started kissing me. As my husband began to strip my clothes off, I realized that I was tired and not in the mood for sex. We made love despite this because there is no harm in making my husband happy, even if I may not feel like sex. We had a great time and I simply had a long nap afterwards. :smthumbup:
> 
> I have a rule about not rejecting my husband, unless I absolutely *must *do so. Except for illness and extreme fatigue, I believe that there is no need to refuse him. After all, there is nobody else that should be fullfilling my husband's sexual needs except his wife. It becomes a slippery slope when couples start to say no all the time, just because they may not be "in the mood" for something.
> 
> What is so hard about having sex when we may not always want to? *Even if a spouse doesn't want to have sex when they are approached, isn't it easy to get into something so pleasurable and beautiful? I feel so sad when I read about all the sexless marriages on TAM.  Sometimes I think that the sexually reluctant spouses are being rather selfish and unfair*. I can understand not wanting to be intimate if infidelity or childbirth has recently occured, but withholding for selfish reasons solves nothing.


 :iagree::iagree::iagree: Well said!!!


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

deejov said:


> A fine example of what I believe is an underlying issue with sex in a marriage. FirstYearDown, your hubby found your triggers. He knows how to get you in the mood, and he does it. So you respond, with enthusiam.
> 
> *What would you have done if he had stood next to the bed and shook his weenie at you and said "can I have a bj"?*
> (ok, if that works for you... insert another example ha ha)


Under most circumstances that would be a turn off but sometimes the husband is in a playful mood and that scenario would send me into a fit of laughter...and then I'd grab that weenie and start playing. But here again, the mood and the approach make all the difference.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

The word "weenie" makes me want to gag. LOL.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

NeverAgain12 said:


> Thanks for the response, sounds like you made a real effort at keeping the love alive. In my house:
> 
> - there is no way the kitchen isn't spotless after dinner, unless someone required an emergency room visit. My wife could not go on to the next task without everything done. And I do help - A LOT.
> 
> ...


Tell her no.


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

NeverAgain12 said:


> Thanks for the response, sounds like you made a real effort at keeping the love alive. In my house:
> 
> - there is no way the kitchen isn't spotless after dinner, unless someone required an emergency room visit. My wife could not go on to the next task without everything done. And I do help - A LOT.
> 
> ...


First off, wonderful mothers are wonderful things. However; I have had a discussion at one time with the wonderful mother I'm married to. Let me make a disclaimer up front so you can decide how much stock to put in what I'm saying. I've never been in a situation where it was years at a time without intimacy. It's never even been months at a time for us, but there have been times of mutual frustration between my wife and me and we've had to talk about these things and resolve them. Her worry and not giving me my turn in her mind is one we've addressed a time or two - not an ongoing thing because we both made the effort to change the situation (end of disclaimer).

The way I framed it: I always made sure I recognized her as a wonderful mother when I talked to her. When we discussed this, I reiterated my love for the kids, too, and how much I wanted to see them successful, or have them back home, etc. Then I told her, "But it's never my turn in your mind. I need my turn when you turn off the worry about other things, and we talk about us, make love where you are focused only on my and not on what the kids need to do tomorrow ... "

I had a few things I also needed to do to help her unwind and unstress. She was able to articulate for me what those things were, and I took action on them, so I'd say make sure you listen here, too, but you have to address never having a turn in her mind. I hope in your case it can be done without making her feel guilty for being a diligent mother, and in fact, I don't think it will be effective if she's made to feel guilty about being a diligent mother.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

FirstYearDown said:


> Today I was reading a book while lying in bed. My husband wanted to make love, so he took my book away and started kissing me. As my husband began to strip my clothes off, I realized that I was tired and not in the mood for sex. We made love despite this because there is no harm in making my husband happy, even if I may not feel like sex. We had a great time and I simply had a long nap afterwards. :smthumbup:
> 
> I have a rule about not rejecting my husband, unless I absolutely *must *do so. Except for illness and extreme fatigue, I believe that there is no need to refuse him. After all, there is nobody else that should be fullfilling my husband's sexual needs except his wife. It becomes a slippery slope when couples start to say no all the time, just because they may not be "in the mood" for something.
> 
> What is so hard about having sex when we may not always want to? Even if a spouse doesn't want to have sex when they are approached, isn't it easy to get into something so pleasurable and beautiful? I feel so sad when I read about all the sexless marriages on TAM.  Sometimes I think that the sexually reluctant spouses are being rather selfish and unfair. I can understand not wanting to be intimate if infidelity or childbirth has recently occured, but withholding for selfish reasons solves nothing.


Great approach and mindset. For my wife she struggles with being tired and stomach issues. On instances where she is not willing to accept my advances she appologizes for turning me down and makes it clear she wants a rain check. She will initiate another time to make up for turning me down. Unfortunately, usually have to wait too. Long, in a perfect world this would not be the case but....

I trully wonder though if the "sexless marriage " posts belong here in the "sex in marriage" section. I am wondering if the clueless witholding spouses are on the other parts of this message board asking things like "why is my husband/wife so unwilling to communicate, help around the house. I hear so many people make commments directed at sex-deprived men assuming they don't help around the house etc. I know guys whose wives do very little. Don't work, have cleaining ladies, nannies and still are not happy. 

Chicken or the egg


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> :lol::lol:
> 
> He never has to ask for a BJ, so the approach you mentioned would just make me laugh.
> 
> ...


Freedom and spontaneity do decline with kids but having kids is awesome and I wouldn't trade it for the world!

That said, I respect how you feel and it is great that you and your husband are in agreement over it. Having kids is a big decision and it is definitely not for everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Ah yes the meticulously planned spontaneity.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I never hit mommy mode. I take care of my kids but they aren't my WHOLE LIFE. lol. It was 2 weeks after birth when hubs and I started sexy time again  In all our years together (haha 5 years), that's the longest we've gone without sex. Two weeks.

but it's a choice you make. Kids don't take over anything. You allow kids to take over. I chose not to allow my children to run my life. And we're all happy for it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

that_girl said:


> I never hit mommy mode. I take care of my kids but they aren't my WHOLE LIFE. lol. It was 2 weeks after birth when hubs and I started sexy time again  In all our years together (haha 5 years), that's the longest we've gone without sex. Two weeks.
> 
> but it's a choice you make. Kids don't take over anything. You allow kids to take over. I chose not to allow my children to run my life. And we're all happy for it.


One of the things I literally was dying for after every one of my C-sectons was SEX, (2 of our boys are only 11 months apart in age due to this)...and I was hornier during pregnancy than any time ever...it is no wonder my husband didn't care how many we had. We have a half dozon from preschool age to college age, 5 still at home, lots going on , house can be chaotic for sure...loud... noisy... sometimes we have an extra 3 or 4 boys on the weekends ...and still NOTHING slows us down.... so long as you have a locked door on your bedroom & shades on your windows...a sex life can remain hot and heavy -not matter how many kids you have in the house. 

All about wanting to be there for your marraige, taking the time, you might have to be a little more creative to keep a little toddler busy -so you can run off for some pleasure, but sooooo sooooooo doable - not matter the age, no matter how many.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> What is so hard about having sex when we may not always want to? *Even if a spouse doesn't want to have sex when they are approached, isn't it easy to get into something so pleasurable and beautiful? *I feel so sad when I read about all the sexless marriages on TAM.  Sometimes I think that the sexually reluctant spouses are being rather selfish and unfair. I can understand not wanting to be intimate if infidelity or childbirth has recently occured, but withholding for selfish reasons solves nothing.


No, it's actually NOT easy to get into it when you are having marital troubles and there are large resentments (including further resentment building for being viewed as a "withholder of sex" or constant pushing for sex). It is not a pleasurable or beautiful thing AT ALL under those circumstances - you just end up feeling colder and deader inside, and even more distant and resentful.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea, for me, pregnant sex was awesome. We had it one last time before I went to the hospital to be induced (I had Pre-E.) LOL  We are like rabbits. Which is why hubs got snipped...we didn't want any more children and with our sexlife, it would have been too risky!!


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

norajane said:


> No, it's actually NOT easy to get into it when you are having marital troubles and there are large resentments (including further resentment building for being viewed as a "withholder of sex" or constant pushing for sex). It is not a pleasurable or beautiful thing AT ALL under those circumstances - you just end up feeling colder and deader inside, and even more distant and resentful.


We still had a great sex life even during our bad periods. It was very easy for us, but perhaps we are not the norm. Nobody should have to push for sex in a marriage.

Love to hear of couples who have great sex lives despite having children. That is the way it should be!


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

norajane said:


> No, it's actually NOT easy to get into it when you are having marital troubles and there are large resentments (including further resentment building for being viewed as a "withholder of sex" or constant pushing for sex). It is not a pleasurable or beautiful thing AT ALL under those circumstances - you just end up feeling colder and deader inside, and even more distant and resentful.


Are the underlying causes of the resentment out in the open? Sometimes, people do not know they are being a jerk, even though, seemingly, common sense would tell them so. Look at SimplyAmorous's posts, she says she did not realize she was depriving her husband, and was mad at him for not saying anything. If there are problems in the marriage, that are well known, the reason for the lack of sex should be apparent. If your spouse does not understand your lack of desire or willingness is due to you not liking him, that should be made clear to him.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

NeverAgain12 said:


> Thanks for the response, sounds like you made a real effort at keeping the love alive. In my house:
> 
> - there is no way the kitchen isn't spotless after dinner, unless someone required an emergency room visit. My wife could not go on to the next task without everything done. And I do help - A LOT.
> 
> ...


Does she get it, that she is neglecting you. Some women just don't, sort of a cultural thing, some Indiana Jones character wondering why you do not eat monkey brains. I suggest the books (Sex starved marriage - first chapter is free on Amazon) or His Needs Her Needs. One thing is if she claims to be such a devoted mother, how would she feel if one of a child's spouse emotionally and physically neglected them? If she is such a good parent, maybe she should set a good example by devoting phoneless, textless, time with her husband. Everyone else in the world makes due with babysitters, she can for a night. 

What the books (and reason) will tell her is that for most people, sex is part of a relationship. Sounds like your wife needs to understand first that there is a relationship. Your vows did not disappear when the kids appeared. Then, she can start to understand what her rejection means to you.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SprucHub said:


> Are the underlying causes of the resentment out in the open? Sometimes, people do not know they are being a jerk, even though, seemingly, common sense would tell them so. Look at SimplyAmorous's posts, she says she did not realize she was depriving her husband, and was mad at him for not saying anything. If there are problems in the marriage, that are well known, the reason for the lack of sex should be apparent. If your spouse does not understand your lack of desire or willingness is due to you not liking him, that should be made clear to him.


This is very true, I married a passive man, and he put me on a pedestal and acted like he was fine, and he will admit he was happy about everything but the frequentcy of sex...but that is a HELL OF A BUT...because when a man is lacking sexual fulllfillment...at least the type he is.... he did not want to feel like a burden to me -- he was not going to beg & grovel, it took a toll on his self esteem even, making him feel like I didn't love him as much. Then on the other hand, he didn't want to push it -cause he was getting more than most of the guys at his work complaining weeks would go by (we were never like that )....

...There is generally 2 types of people... those who will suffer in silence (MY HUSBAND, his temperment type is much more prone to do this as phlegmatics are naturally passive)... and those like ME....when I get mad.... it is going to come FLYING out of my mouth, there is no way to miss it, it WILL be talked about, I'd probably even run you into the ground if you ticked me off. 

He needed to step it up some , and when I get mad, I need a little more patience, a toning down, but communication... we all need to engage it in honestly and heartfully . 

If you do this and you can't come to some understanding.. some common ground, you might have to consider breaking up, living in a sea of resentment , for whatever reason, is not healthy, it has to take a huge toll on your happiness, even how you deal with your every day life, your children, your friends. 

Resentment is an ugly ugly thing.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

SprucHub said:


> Are the underlying causes of the resentment out in the open? Sometimes, people do not know they are being a jerk, even though, seemingly, common sense would tell them so. Look at SimplyAmorous's posts, she says she did not realize she was depriving her husband, and was mad at him for not saying anything. If there are problems in the marriage, that are well known, the reason for the lack of sex should be apparent. If your spouse does not understand your lack of desire or willingness is due to you not liking him, that should be made clear to him.


I don't have this problem now; it's from my relationship with an ex. (So much for the "LD spouse" label. I was never LD - just stopped wanting sex with HIM because of our issues. Not directed at you, SpruceHub. It's just a mini-rant because I see that LD label thrown around a LOT around here, and I suspect that some or many of those women are not actually LD). 

Anyway yes, my ex was WELL aware of our issues. I talked, I wrote letters, I did everything but sky-writing to let him know we had issues but that I wanted to work through them because I loved him. He just didn't "come to the table" to work through them. He only "noticed" we had problems when I stopped wanting to have sex with him, and even THEN the only problem he noticed or wanted to deal with was the lack of sex.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

norajane said:


> I don't have this problem now; it's from my relationship with an ex. *(So much for the "LD spouse" label. I was never LD - just stopped wanting sex with HIM because of our issues. Not directed at you, SpruceHub. It's just a mini-rant because I see that LD label thrown around a LOT around here, and I suspect that some or many of those women are not actually LD). *
> 
> Anyway yes, my ex was WELL aware of our issues. I talked, I wrote letters, I did everything but sky-writing to let him know we had issues but that I wanted to work through them because I loved him. He just didn't "come to the table" to work through them. He only "noticed" we had problems when I stopped wanting to have sex with him, and even THEN the only problem he noticed or wanted to deal with was the lack of sex.


 norajane you hit it right on. That's how I felt exactly in my first marriage. It wasn't until I left him that I realised my sexuality wasn't dead, just dormant while I was with him.


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

Having children can definitely change things. You become more tired and you have a whole new focus in the world. I love my daughter and wouldn't trade her for the world. She and my husband are my life.

A lot of my friends go up and down with sex. In a perfect world we would all have great sex lives but we don't. I've found that the happier you are with your spouse, the more you want to be intimate. I've also found if I'm not in the mood, sometimes just getting past that and into it, you find out that you actually are!

I don't think wives should give it up all the time for their husbands if they are tired, more just try to make sure there are more yes's than no's in the week because what I've found being on here, is that men really do see a rejection of sex as a rejection of themselves.

I find that if I'm too tired that night and my husband starts doing something to help like the dishes or tidying up, then I look at him and soften because he's doing something for me and I want to do something for him. Not as a chore though, god he'd hate it to be thought of as that. But just willing to spend intimate time together.

Intimacy is really hard, because every relationship is so different and everyone's drives are so different. It's all about being compatible. Some people do it once a week and are happy, some six times a day (ok I made that up I don't know anyone who does that). The point is, it's not a competition. It's whatever works for you. But yes, I think sometimes wives want all sorts of things from their husbands at times but don't want to put the effort into what they want too. Partnership is about meeting each others needs and more importantly, wanting to, and enjoying doing things for them too.


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

SprucHub said:


> Does she get it, that she is neglecting you. Some women just don't, sort of a cultural thing, some Indiana Jones character wondering why you do not eat monkey brains. I suggest the books (Sex starved marriage - first chapter is free on Amazon) or His Needs Her Needs. One thing is if she claims to be such a devoted mother, how would she feel if one of a child's spouse emotionally and physically neglected them? If she is such a good parent, maybe she should set a good example by devoting phoneless, textless, time with her husband. Everyone else in the world makes due with babysitters, she can for a night.
> 
> What the books (and reason) will tell her is that for most people, sex is part of a relationship. Sounds like your wife needs to understand first that there is a relationship. Your vows did not disappear when the kids appeared. Then, she can start to understand what her rejection means to you.


thanks for the response. I think she doesn't understand the depth of the frustration and doesn't see how I don't see the world through her eyes. Deep resentment set in (obvious in my writings) that clearly have made it worse, so I know I'm not helping the situation because I gave up. She doesn't want a divorce as she's more worried about the effect on the kids. it's all about the kids.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

For the kids sake, things need to change. Maybe if you frame it in the children's best interests, things will change for the better. I know two resentful parents are not better together than two parents who are happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wilco (Mar 5, 2012)

SO much of what you have all shared makes perfect sense. Wish my wife and I had read this forum long ago. (to my knowledge, she doesn't visit at all)


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Pandakiss said:


> *resentment is a big mood killer. first you give in that wonderful dug "drama", and thats a fast to not "right fighting"...*
> 
> then resentment moves into your house. it can take YEARS to fix old resentments and to resolve and understand "triggers".
> 
> ...


YUP Resent ment is a huge libido killer.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

deejov said:


> A fine example of what I believe is an underlying issue with sex in a marriage. FirstYearDown, your hubby found your triggers. He knows how to get you in the mood, and he does it. So you respond, with enthusiam.
> 
> *What would you have done if he had stood next to the bed and shook his weenie at you and said "can I have a bj"?
> (ok, if that works for you... insert another example ha ha)*




This is what my husband does to me.. and it really pisses me off.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

FirstYearDown said:


> Everyone judges others whether we want to admit it or not, Enchantment.
> 
> *Why can't the withholding spouses, have empathy for their sex starved husbands and wives? It goes both ways.*
> 
> ...


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## Mrs. Yes (Jan 5, 2012)

I agree that there are very few reasons to deny a spouse. I have been married 21 years and although in that time I didn't deny him often - if I did deny him I would always suggest when we could make up for it.

This year however my new years resolution was to never refuse his advances - no matter what. So far it is going very well and I have learned so much.

I will never say no in 2012


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Mrs. Yes said:


> I agree that there are very few reasons to deny a spouse. I have been married 21 years and although in that time I didn't deny him often - if I did deny him I would always suggest when we could make up for it.
> 
> This year however my new years resolution was to never refuse his advances - no matter what. So far it is going very well and I have learned so much.
> 
> I will never say no in 2012



Lucky man. You should sell tshirts! Did a lot of the complaints or issues that you had about your hubby disappear or mostly take care of themselves?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

ladybird said:


> [/B]
> 
> This is what my husband does to me.. and it really pisses me off.


That's not cool. Have you discussed your displeasure with that way of asking?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I am now on doctor's orders...no sexual intercourse for 2 weeks. Boo.

But there's nothing wrong with my mouth


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I am now on doctor's orders...no sexual intercourse for 2 weeks. Boo.
> 
> But there's nothing wrong with my mouth


:lol::lol: At least wait until the _anesthesia _wears off, you crazy tart. 

Fresh off the gurney and already talking about sex! :rofl::rofl:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

hahahaha It will be a few days. I can barely breathe without being sore!


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> :lol::lol: At least wait until the _anesthesia _wears off, you crazy tart.
> 
> Fresh off the gurney and already talking about sex! :rofl::rofl:


:rofl: This made me laugh out loud and it scared the crap out of my dog


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> :lol::lol: At least wait until the _anesthesia _wears off, you crazy tart.
> 
> Fresh off the gurney and already talking about sex! :rofl::rofl:


She's a wonder isn't she?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I am now on doctor's orders...no sexual intercourse for 2 weeks. Boo.
> 
> But there's nothing wrong with my mouth


I will start the bets.
I wager that you will not wait two weeks.
You will have a miraculous recovery, and by Monday you will be doing some very careful "we can make it work" moves.

Anyone?


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I bet that she will injure herself trying to make love too soon. :rofl:


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> I bet that she will injure herself trying to make love too soon. :rofl:


He should be a good hubby and give her a pearl necklace, right?.


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## Mrs. Yes (Jan 5, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> Lucky man. You should sell tshirts! Did a lot of the complaints or issues that you had about your hubby disappear or mostly take care of themselves?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I have noticed that we are more affectionate in and out of the bedroom. We are also both exhausted and sleeping better as silly as that sounds.

I notice my behaviors more than his and recognize a lot of things that I do that could prevent intimacy, many times in reaction to his actions or behaviors. Still working on this - letting him know when he makes me crazy and trying to have a constructive reaction instead of a nasty one. Figure a change on my end will hopefully lead to a change on his.

My big thing now is to take a less passive role - working on initiating. Having a lot of fun with this as well.

I will never say no in 2012


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## Lovebug501 (Aug 30, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> What is so hard about having sex when we may not always want to? Even if a spouse doesn't want to have sex when they are approached, isn't it easy to get into something so pleasurable and beautiful? I feel so sad when I read about all the sexless marriages on TAM.  Sometimes I think that the sexually reluctant spouses are being rather selfish and unfair. I can understand not wanting to be intimate if infidelity or childbirth has recently occured, but withholding for selfish reasons solves nothing.


In some cases, it's only pleasurable for him... and he wants a performance of how fantastic it is for you or it deteriorates to an argument and him being all whiny and pouty... and when you are already tired and not in the mood, its even more of a pain in the @ss to put on the performance. And I know that there's something physically wrong with me that it's just not fireworks like everyone else feels, but doctors don't know what it is (I've had every test under the sun), and I get really tired of feeling broken and his determination that it's something he's not doing and he can "fix" me.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Lovebug501 said:


> In some cases, it's only pleasurable for him... and he wants a performance of how fantastic it is for you or it deteriorates to an argument and him being all whiny and pouty... and when you are already tired and not in the mood, its even more of a pain in the @ss to put on the performance. And I know that there's something physically wrong with me that it's just not fireworks like everyone else feels, but doctors don't know what it is (I've had every test under the sun), and I get really tired of feeling broken and his determination that it's something he's not doing and he can "fix" me.


Are you attracted to your husband? Do you have a lot of resentment built up (and building), both sex-related and otherwise? Have you had any orgasms with him lately?

It may not be a physical issue at all. You may not be "broken". It may be a mental block because you don't like your husband much these days, and/or are just not attracted to him anymore. It's hard to be loving (giving, sexually and otherwise) if you don't feel loving toward him. 

It's also hard to get into sex if you aren't having orgasms, even if he's trying to give them to you. If he isn't, well, I can't imagine being interested in sex with a selfish lover.


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## Lovebug501 (Aug 30, 2011)

norajane said:


> Are you attracted to your husband? Do you have a lot of resentment built up (and building), both sex-related and otherwise? Have you had any orgasms with him lately?
> 
> It may not be a physical issue at all. You may not be "broken". It may be a mental block because you don't like your husband much these days, and/or are just not attracted to him anymore. It's hard to be loving (giving, sexually and otherwise) if you don't feel loving toward him.
> 
> It's also hard to get into sex if you aren't having orgasms, even if he's trying to give them to you. If he isn't, well, I can't imagine being interested in sex with a selfish lover.


I've never had an orgasm that wasn't self-stimulated or from oral sex. That's what he thinks he can fix... and it's frustrating for me. 

There's lots of resentment built up - a lot of it circulating around our sex life... he thinks there's not enough.. but anything less than every night is not enough. And if he'd just do his thing and not be so concerned with whether or not I was getting off, I might be inclined to do it more often... but as it is, it's a lot of pressure to react the way his wants. His self-worth is based upon whether or not I get off in bed... 

A lot of times, it is physically painful to have intercourse, but I suck it up because if I complain, it still hurts but it just takes longer for him to get off because he's trying to find a position that's "good for me".

Granted - it may be the built up resentment and complete lack of trust that has killed my sex drive.. b/c I was more willing to do it (without orgasm) back when we first got together... and then came the porn addiction and the other women.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

It isn't all that hard for a woman compared to a man...physically at least. A little lube and she's ready to go. But when a man is without sexual desire nothing happens, it is physically impossible. Even a bucketful of Viagra won't help if he has no desire. And forcing himself no give non penetrative mercy sex with no desire, no erection and so chance of ejaculation is sheer torture for most men and they avoid it like the plague.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Mr B said:


> It isn't all that hard for a woman compared to a man...physically at least. A little lube and she's ready to go. But when a man is without sexual desire nothing happens, it is physically impossible. Even a bucketful of Viagra won't help if he has no desire. And forcing himself no give non penetrative mercy sex with no desire, no erection and so chance of ejaculation is sheer torture for most men and they avoid it like the plague.


I'm going to preface this by saying I've only not risen to the occasion less times than I can count on one hand in my life. Having said that, I was totally into keeping sex going despite the soldier taking a nap. Actually keeping things going and being patient usually revived me when I stopped focusing on the problem and concentrated on her and the moment. If it were a more regular thing, I'd do whatever it took to keep things going until that issue could be resolved, especially if it were important to her. Im sure it would be somewhat torturous to not have the ability to do what I wanted to do/feel in the bedroom. No one wants to feel like a cripple and it should be fun. On the other hand, women have different plumbing and it doesn't require the same response to have the pure ability to be sexually active.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I think that even though it may not be physically difficult to have penetrative sex with a non-aroused woman using a little lube and such, that is not typically the way to go, nor the thought mentality to have when it comes to marital sex.

You have to consider the emotional difficulty involved in that situation, especially over the longer term.

Too much of that on the woman's side - not being aroused to the situation - will simply make her feel used in regards to penetrative sex, and in time sexual aversion begins to form.

I'm all for a woman being willing to try to be aroused, but not so much to just doing it without effort to try and arouse (on his part) and to try and be aroused (on her part).


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

phantomfan said:


> I'm going to preface this by saying I've only not risen to the occasion less times than I can count on one hand in my life. Having said that, I was totally into keeping sex going despite the soldier taking a nap. Actually keeping things going and being patient usually revived me when I stopped focusing on the problem and concentrated on her and the moment. If it were a more regular thing, I'd do whatever it took to keep things going until that issue could be resolved, especially if it were important to her. Im sure it would be somewhat torturous to not have the ability to do what I wanted to do/feel in the bedroom. No one wants to feel like a cripple and it should be fun. On the other hand, women have different plumbing and it doesn't require the same response to have the pure ability to be sexually active.


Well I wasn't talking about a guy who simply doesn't feel like it once in awhile but does it anyway. If you are having sex on a fairly regular basis and find your partner sexually attractive then that's a totally different thing and yes a guy can "rise to the occasion" a lot of the time when he isn't aroused. I'm talking about a man who may love his wife (or not) but has absolutely no sexual desire for her. Could be a lack of attraction, interpersonal problems, a preference for porn and masturbation over partner sex etc. It is in those circumstances that mercy sex is physically impossible.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> I think that even though it may not be physically difficult to have penetrative sex with a non-aroused woman using a little lube and such, that is not typically the way to go, nor the thought mentality to have when it comes to marital sex.
> 
> You have to consider the emotional difficulty involved in that situation, especially over the longer term.
> 
> ...


Rejection does the same thing. The imbalance has to be resolved. Again I don't get the lack of desire. What is more desirous. A spouse going elsewhere because you won't or taking care of it like any other obligation. No one gets mad at doing dishes, helping with homework, yardwork, jobs...why does sex have to be the only thing that suffers for "feeling"?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

phantomfan said:


> Rejection does the same thing. The imbalance has to be resolved. Again I don't get the lack of desire. What is more desirous. A spouse going elsewhere because you won't or taking care of it like any other obligation. No one gets mad at doing dishes, helping with homework, yardwork, jobs...why does sex have to be the only thing that suffers for "feeling"?


This is what i think of when i read post like this. I may be way off but i am just telling what i get. There must be something off about the thought of sex thrown in with household duties yet it is such a common expectation. I am certain that this comes up with the pain and anger of rejection by your spouse. 

But what would that be like? Do you expect you wife to lay there and endure or do you expect her to act excited or should she expect to have an orgasm? Do you kiss her first, touch her with any tenderness, feel any love? What do you do with all of the anger? Does it go away or do you still habor it. 

How do you feel "getting it taken care of" by a person who does not welcome you? Can you get any pleasure out of that? Is it better than masturbating? If so why? The only difference between masturbation and mechanical sex is the presence of woman with the right parts. 

But the idea is so machanical that when you reach the point of thinking of sex with your wife in those terms then love has died. It happens when there is a physical gulf. 

You give the impression of wanting to maturbate into a veejay and any ones will do. There is no more emotion or tenderness or love associated with the act than any other household task. That is my impression when I see this all too common analogy of sex and other machanical task. You have an outie and she has an innie why can't she just let you poke it in? 

At this point do you really want to have sex with your wife?. I ask that because you seem to thnk that she should "take care of it" or you can get it taken care of somewhere else. I can not think of anything more unappealing than to be used to "take care of it". 

My response would be "it is yours you take care of it, I am not here to be of service to you like a garbage bin or dishwasher"'. Harsh I know but, that's what I feel when I read these things. I wonder what came first, the refusals then the mechanical approach to sex or the mechanical approach and then the refusals. It bears looking into. 

Why do you remain in this situation? It has deteriorated to such a level that you can continance sex as relief for you, equivalent to cleaning up and any veejay will do. You may have reached a point where it would be healthier for you to go out and seek relief with women you have no emotional attachment to but do so honestly. 

Get a divorce and then you can pick up random women to relieve you. The men who report on their life after divorce seem to have no problem getting all the sex they want. If you have tried everything you can to save your marriage then it may be time to exit and "get it taken care of".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mr B said:


> It isn't all that hard for a woman compared to a man...physically at least. A little lube and she's ready to go. But when a man is without sexual desire nothing happens, it is physically impossible. Even a bucketful of Viagra won't help if he has no desire. And forcing himself no give non penetrative mercy sex with no desire, no erection and so chance of ejaculation is sheer torture for most men and they avoid it like the plague.


It is no less so for a woman. The big difference is that men can't be coerced to have sex when they have no desire because their plumbing does not work. Women on the other hand can be penetrated with or without desire, arrousal or consent. 

So it is that hard for women. It is hard to get the idea across that having a sex organ that needs no plumbing to activate, can not be taken for available for use. 

That's a big deal for most women. The idea that a woman can have sex mechanically at any time may give rise to the feeling that since she can then she should. There is a gatekeeper - the woman connected to the organ.

The gatekeeper is sensitive and multifaceted. She has probably had experiences where men who care little about the gatekeeper but wanted at her organs which heightens her vigilance. . Women are sensitive to men who ignore the person to get at the goodies. That seems to anger and annoy the men who don't want to deal with the person, they just want at the organs. 

If you can understand that, you will see that it is not so easy.

To have sex with no desire takes some doing. This is what it is like - you essentially have to give up control over part of your own body so that another person can use it to take care of himself. You dont let him touch any other place on your body, just the part that is essential for him. To do that, you have to close your eyes and go to a small safe place in your mind and let it happen and hope it is over soon so you can come out and be whole again. Tell yourself it is alright, cleanse yourself and don't think about it until it needs to happen again. 

Have you ever had to do that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> It is no less so for a woman. The big difference is that men can't be coerced to have sex when they have no desire because their plumbing does not work. Women on the other hand can be penetrated with or without desire, arrousal or consent.
> 
> So it is that hard for women. It is hard to get the idea across that having a sex organ that needs no plumbing to activate, can not be taken for available for use.
> 
> ...


have you had to do this? and how did you get the cylce to break? 

This sounds exactly like my wife, when we do have sex, she is just kind of there, I'm not a selfish lover, I want her to feel loved, desired and that I'm just not trying to use her or her body
, afterwards she just sits up and goes somewhere in her mind (best way I can describe it) I still hold her kiss her, tell how wonderful she is and that I truly love her, ( I almost feel like a rapist)...

This has not always been like this, just in the past year or so, I 
tried and tried to get her to talk to me about it, her only explanation so far is that she just dosent like sex??? I then asked her "So ok, you dont like sex, what about before? when you initated, called my name, pulled me in, and we actually made love, that was all pretend?" her reply was that yes sometimes it was..(wow talk about a punch to the guts)...

She says she needs the emotional connection, but can not tell me what she needs in words, says she just dosent know??? 

I've read the 5LL, HNHN, passinonate marriage, when your sex drives dont match, MMSP, and many more, trying not be so needy and being a better me , I am always the one to say I love you first, physical touch is my LL and have scaled that back a lot, at this point she dosent want anything to do with the books....

any advice?


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> have you had to do this? and how did you get the cylce to break?
> 
> This sounds exactly like my wife, when we do have sex, she is just kind of there, I'm not a selfish lover, I want her to feel loved, desired and that I'm just not trying to use her or her body
> , afterwards she just sits up and goes somewhere in her mind (best way I can describe it) I still hold her kiss her, tell how wonderful she is and that I truly love her, ( I almost feel like a rapist)...
> ...


If she won't have anything to do with changing, then you have to worry about yourself and change you from the inside out. I think every one of those books has some truth in it. It depends on your circumstances and what tools you have to work with on how successful any of them will be individually. Personally, I really do like the MMSP. 

Think about yourself as a house. Your wife moved in to you and now the carpets are worn, needs some paint, etc. You can't force her to be thankful for what she has, treat you like a brand new thing or remodel you. You can spruce yourself up and look like your getting ready to show for a new tenant. That's what women do when they are about to consider cheating or had someone take interest in them to start their motor. It's how they communicate to you that you better do something. I think that's why that approach is so successful. Think of the 90's movie True Lies when Jamie Lee Curtis is a boring housewife until Bill Paxton gives her a little adventure. Then she's exercising before she goes to meet the guy in his "secret hideout" and she was married to a hunk. You have to do something to change the game and peak her interest. What will best do that is something you have to figure out and do.

If you go for operation remodel, the worst that happens is that you're a better person, she doesn't chase after you and you're ready to be on the market if things fall through. I know for a fact that nothing makes the woman you're with want you more than when your interest seems to be fading, you're looking better and getting attention from other women (perceived or real). It hooked my ex wife and she ultimately didn't care less about me. But because someone else wanted me, I was a whole lot more attractive to her.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

strugglinghusband said:


> have you had to do this? and how did you get the cylce to break?
> 
> This sounds exactly like my wife, when we do have sex, she is just kind of there, I'm not a selfish lover, I want her to feel loved, desired and that I'm just not trying to use her or her body
> , afterwards she just sits up and goes somewhere in her mind (best way I can describe it) I still hold her kiss her, tell how wonderful she is and that I truly love her, ( I almost feel like a rapist)...
> ...


I PM'ed you hope you got it. 

That happened to me when I was 15 with an older man. I did not want sex but he insisted that it was part of love. I thought I was in love and he loved me. I was stupid and naive. 

Have you tried marriage counseling? If she does not want to go then you should go for IC. Do you have children and how long have you been married? 

My suggestion is to cool down the ILY and perusing her. Give her a chance to come to you. There is a risk that she wil not come to you and the distance between you will increase. 

You have to decide before hand what would be the best thing to do. Stay in a relationship with distance and a spouse that seems disinterested in having you around or consider leaving the marriage.

If you have kids, this may be a very difficult decision. There are ways of minimizing the impact of divorce on kids. 

I am not suggesting divorce as a first line response. Y need to pull out all the stops and do every thing you can to save this. Sounds like you have done a great deal. 

It is interesting her response to your reading books. Most women can't get their husband to read a short newspaper article on relationships. 

She doesn't know how lucky she is. Have you asked her if she wants to stay married? Have you asked her what she expects of you in a marriage with a woman who does not like sex? 

Have you asked her what she sees as a future for you both? Ask her if she expects you will stay in the marriage with no intimacy? 

These questions are volatile and you have to be ready for anger, resentment and simple refusal to talk. Then you have to decide what you will do. 

Don't ask if you are not ready for some difficult to hear answer or no answer at all. If you don't have a plan don't ask. 

Please come back and continue posting.


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## zaliblue (Apr 26, 2011)

You are so right! I am a VERY sexual person, but I have to admit that there were times that I wasn't in the mood....We have two young kids and sometimes I get tired....However, if we get the kids to bed and he wants it, I'm not turning him down....so, I do it anyway...because I love him....it's funny though, sometimes the times when I feel like I'm not in the mood, we start, and it turns out being the best sex ever! Because he makes me in the mood I just think that when you love someone like a husband and wife should, then there wouldn't be any sex issues....


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## The_Swan (Nov 20, 2011)

Yes, this happened the other night. I was tired and had a slight headache. 
When my husband showed interest in sex, I downed some aspirin and lit some candles and we relaxed and cuddled for a bit and then I climbed on top of him for a nice quickie.
I had a pretty intense orgasm which surprised me. It was better than I expected.  We were so sated after that we dozed off together. 

I agree with the OP. As a rule I won't reject my husband unless I'm really sick. And I'm not just talking about menstrual cramps since sex actually helps with that! :smthumbup:


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Love the way so many people enjoyed my opening post! :smthumbup:


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Speaking as one of those people who has turned down their spouse for sex, I'll say that for me, my rejections had almost nothing to do with my wife and everything to do with my own depression and self-esteem issues. I'm not going to say "Don't take it personally," but I will say that there may be things going on that folks with a high drive don't see. 

But from my viewpoint, the most dangerous things for the lower drive spouse are to not acknowledge the problem is theirs and not their spouses, and being unwilling to acknowledge that there's anything the can do about it. Just shrugging their shoulders and going, "Oh, well. I'm not in the mood, so you don't get no loving," just isn't acceptable.

And, no, I don't think that lower-drive spouses should deny their partners if at all possible. I've found that sometimes I just have to start slower, like with cuddling or letting my wife go down on me (and there ain't nothing wrong with that). And if there are times I am in the mood but my wife isn't, I'll take care of her needs first too!


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