# After such a long fight, how to start over? I am tired...



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

My "partner" of 12yrs and I are probably done. Been on the fence for over a year and she simply will not try in the relationship. I am tired of trying. She does not touch me, kiss me, hug me, etc. We talk fine but only about life matters, NEVER about us. She wants someone to "cherish" her but it is next to impossible. She is so cold. 

She has really said nothing along the lines of "we are done, I am getting a new place", etc which just irritates me. Why can she not draw a line in the sand? She happened to leave her FB open the other day and I don't really feel that bad for checking it a bit. I did see where she was asking a friend for places to rent. Her words were "I'm desperate". All I can assume is she is just avoiding conflict at this point. 

I don't know but I am tired of trying to keep her. She obviously does not want to be here. Now being in my 30s, I feel totally screwed that now I either get to select a partner with baggage or one that does not which might be more concerning... 

I am not sure why, but I feel it will be hard to try and raise someone else's kids? I also joined a couple dating sites just to test the water but very discouraged. The common words with women is "I want to travel" and "man that is driven". So need money and need to work 24/7.... The ones that I have contacted that I thought were in my league never replied. However, plenty of older, over weight women have contacted me. This might be playing hell on my self esteem. I am no longer a spring chicken, my hair is a bit thinner, I have a few extra lbs, I am not rich, and not sure what the hell to do...

So, this post seemed more like a rant... Did not mean it that way but I guess not sure where to start here. I think I have been desperate for attention from partner for some time and just want to be with someone that I am strongly attracted to, that actually will reciprocate.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You're just as capable of drawing a line in the sand and saying "I'm done" as she is. Why are you avoiding that final conflict?

As far as the dating goes... I left my marriage at 42 years old. I shortly after found a 41 year old woman who I would have thought was way out of my league. She has no kids, our sex life rocks, and life is pretty good. I'll leave the judgement on you signing up for dating site while still working on your relationship to others that have not sinned...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

You make your own happiness, Bob. Be happy with yourself and the rest will follow. Few extra pounds? Work out. You'll be amazed how much better you feel once it becomes a habit. Then you'll be amazed by how much extra attention you are getting from women. 

It's a self-fulfilling cycle - you just have to put the work in.

Never depend on someone else for your happiness.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Where are you supposed to meet people? I am self employed, work from home, have two kids, etc. I don't really see people!

I suppose I can draw a line but I think I mentally already have. IMO, I have worked FAR harder to make this relationship work. We were engaged, she took the ring off and never even told me. I'm sorry but I just don't feel I was doing much wrong in that we are obviously already done. I certainly am not going out on dates or sleeping around. I guess she has made it pretty clear in her actions that she is not going to work on this,BUT has not moved out either. For the past year I have lived in limbo. Some days I think she is going to stay, then I get another kick in the teeth like "I need a rental". 

I figured I might get flamed for that but trying to be honest here. I am not proud of it and would shut it all off in a hurry if I even thought she was going to work on things with me. The last time we even talked about relationship matters was Nov,1.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Maybe going through this with your wife shows you that looks isn't everything and maybe you need a woman who is kind hearted, loves you unconditionally, committed, kind, loving, etc. 

There is this guy that my family knew his family. This guy liked me forever but I was always in a relationship. When I became single, him and I talked (he was long distance) a lot and got to know each other. This guy was AMAZING. One of the kindest, gentle hearted, educated, good morals, etc. He was a dream guy. I went out to visit him and I was not attracted to him in any way shape or form. There was nothing. I immediately retreated. Later, I met my STBXH. He swept me off my feet, was attractive, etc. After 7yrs of being together and 5.5yrs of marriage and a young baby, he cheated on me and I filed for divorce yesterday. I regret so much turning away the great guy just because I wasn't attracted to him.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I think what I most pissed about is I have sort of known this all along. When your new GF flat out says, I used to have a girl friend, I never want to get married, and I never want children.....

She *****es about being a mom sometimes. She whines because my mother is a super hero and I worship her. My mother would give me her last breath and I would do the same for her. I feel I have given up a LOT for my W when she is in need. She does not reciprocate in any way IMO. 

Let me ask this, what "should" the responsibilities of the wife be? I am told I do nothing but I am curious if my talents of mechanical abilities would really appeal to anyone? For instance, the washer had an issue last Sunday. Needed fixed, I tore it down right on the spot, ID'd the issue and ordered parts. She is running perfect. I have never called a repairman for anything in my life. I do anything from remodeling, plumbing, to engine rebuilds. She sees no value in that. I just saved the family 500 bucks fixing the washer. I have literally saved her 10s of thousands. I even designed and installed our HVAC system. 

I am just really confused as to what women want. I see all these hotties hooked up with men that are doing good to get gas in the a lawn mower. I need help... I see "sweet' guys in skinny jeans and ear rings and want to vomit yet women flock to them???


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Bob,

All you need to do in your current relationship is identify your boundaries and enforce them. Stop waiting for her to decide if SHE wants to be in a relationship with you (and actively work on it) and decide if you want to be in a relationship with her. You have just as much right (and responsibility) to say yes or no as she does. She, for whatever reason, is tolerating the mess... Doesn't mean you have to. 

Have you read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy"?

As far as meeting ladies... I met my SO on an "adult relationship" website. We started as FWB, found much more. I'm not saying it's right for everyone, but it worked for me. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

zappy88200 said:


> I have a perfect annswer for this:-
> 
> One thing I have realized over the past few years is that women would not appreciate how much money you can save by doing all the repairs yourself, they see no value in it and dont appreciate your hard work.
> 
> ...


I have to 100% totally disagree with you! I am a W and my STBXH did a lot of house work like cooking, cleaning, laundry, dishes. I appreciated it tremendously and told him so. I would never want to be with a man who lived beyond their means and didn't do any housework. Maybe Bob's wife didn't care so much that he fixed things around the house. Maybe she wanted him to notice her, or give her words of affirmation, etc.

Bob - have you guys done the love language test? That might be very beneficial.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes, we did our love languages over a year ago, together. It was interesting but nothing ever changed. I offer words of affirmation but all I get is "thanks". I never have a feel if that is good enough or what. 

The other day she really did look nice, hair was different, etc. I was on the couch with the kids when she came in and I complimented pretty heavy on her hair and clothes. She did look nice. 

It was a "thanks". :scratchhead: I am either relationship stupid or need some type of gauge to know if this is even what she wants to hear.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

Have you tried MC? Maybe you just need the draw the line in the sand yourself and do the 180.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

What is the 180? Did MC for prob 6mo, then she started going alone for whatever reason. C thought she could work with us individually for a while. I sort of stopped going because there is zero change at home. It is a waste of my time and money.


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## littlejaz (Oct 17, 2013)

zappy88200 said:


> I have a perfect annswer for this:-
> 
> One thing I have realized over the past few years is that women would not appreciate how much money you can save by doing all the repairs yourself, they see no value in it and dont appreciate your hard work.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with this also. I would greatly appreciate a man that helped around the house and would fix things. I would even help him fix things. I want a man that wants to be a partner and do things together whether it is going on a trip or fixing the toilet. I want happiness not money.

MC might have been a waste of time but IC might be good for you if you go into it with the right mindset. You can't do it to try to get her interested, you have to do it to work on yourself to be the best you that you can be.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

bobsmith said:


> *What is the 180?* Did MC for prob 6mo, then she started going alone for whatever reason. C thought she could work with us individually for a while. I sort of stopped going because there is zero change at home. It is a waste of my time and money.


Stop Your Divorce with the The Last Resort Technique - Married Life from Hitched - Social network for married couples


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

heartbroken0426 said:


> Maybe going through this with your wife shows you that looks isn't everything and maybe you need a woman who is kind hearted, loves you unconditionally, committed, kind, loving, etc.
> 
> There is this guy that my family knew his family. This guy liked me forever but I was always in a relationship. When I became single, him and I talked (he was long distance) a lot and got to know each other. This guy was AMAZING. One of the kindest, gentle hearted, educated, good morals, etc. He was a dream guy. I went out to visit him and I was not attracted to him in any way shape or form. There was nothing. I immediately retreated. Later, I met my STBXH. He swept me off my feet, was attractive, etc. After 7yrs of being together and 5.5yrs of marriage and a young baby, he cheated on me and I filed for divorce yesterday. I regret so much turning away the great guy just because I wasn't attracted to him.


Why settle... at all? If you hadn't retreated, it 'might' have worked out... but I doubt it. I think - based on many years of history and many cultures' propensity for arranged marriages - that without that initial attraction, you would have just been trading in one set of issues for another.

Settling is the first step towards losing yourself.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

As far as meeting people, Bob? Get out there. Anywhere. Check out meetup.com, find people with similar interests as you, hit a bar, go belt out karaoke somewhere, go jogging in the park, join a gym, go to church... waiting at home for a woman you like to suddenly contact you isn't very likely (well, it happened to me... but I am still cognizant of just how unlikely that was). 

Bottom line is: Women outnumber men on this planet, you just have to spread out your net a bit and be confident in yourself. That is the key to... well, pretty much everything. It isn't the pretty boys spending beyond their means that attracts women. It is confidence.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

"arrogance" is what I got labeled with by the ex. Apparently my confidence goes to far. I will admit that I have a lot of knowledge stuffed in my head but I need to learn how to communicate and share better without seeming superior I suppose. 

I think what pisses me off is my ex does hair. All she will have to do is ring her "single bell" and all her clients will "hook her up". All my friends are married and could care less about dating. I get to do this alone now. Back in my 20s it was fun to go "shopping". 

I have yet to figure out how to make myself approachable. I have been told by women that they did not think I would talk to them or that I seemed stiff. 

Regarding the dating pool, I hate to admit it but the first thing in my mind when someone my age is single is "why are you single". I guess the type that I am attracted to is the type that typically marries once. I don't know, just a lot of crap in my head right now..


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> "arrogance" is what I got labeled with by the ex. Apparently my confidence goes to far. I will admit that I have a lot of knowledge stuffed in my head but I need to learn how to communicate and share better without seeming superior I suppose.
> 
> I think what pisses me off is my ex does hair. All she will have to do is ring her "single bell" and all her clients will "hook her up". All my friends are married and could care less about dating. I get to do this alone now. Back in my 20s it was fun to go "shopping".
> 
> ...


No need to jump into the dating scene yet. 

Sort yourself out first. 

No need to compete w/ what she's doing.


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## Daisy2714 (Sep 22, 2013)

bobsmith said:


> She wants someone to "cherish" her but it is next to impossible. She is so cold. I think I have been desperate for attention from partner for some time and just want to be with someone that I am strongly attracted to, that actually will reciprocate.


Bob,

I hear your frustration. I've read this thread and the thread you posted in the women's section. I want to start by saying I'm sorry for your pain. I want to try to help you and I admit I'm also hoping to help myself in the process. 

One of my issues with my husband is that I do not feel 'cherished'. It sounds like this is one of your wife's complaints. I don't know her side of this story and please know that I'm not trying to figure her side out. I simply want to ask you if you actually understand what it means when a women says she would like to be cherished? Do you know how to show her that she is? 

From what you have described and the emotions that come across in your writing, I hear you saying that you are not able to cherish her. You say it's because she is cold. I see this as transferring blame. I'm not saying that she is warm and cuddly. She does sound cold. However, I have a feeling my husband might describe me as cold toward him at this moment. 

We all (men and women alike) tend to build walls to protect ourselves from hurt. After years of talking and reaching out and being rejected, eventually, we protect our hearts by shutting off our emotional responses. 

Her response of 'thank you' when you compliment her on her hair may be less than you hope for but if she hasn't heard it in a while or if she is unaccustomed to you giving her compliments, she may not trust the sincerity of it. These things do not fix themselves overnight. 

Her lack of initiating intimacy can go back to the same reason. If she isn't feeling loved, valued, or "cherished" by you, then she is too hurt to take the risk of initiating intimacy. 

As I said, I don't know her side of this. I'm only trying to give you some answers as to why she MIGHT be behaving cold in your relationship.



heartbroken0426 said:


> ...This guy was AMAZING. One of the kindest, gentle hearted, educated, good morals, etc. He was a dream guy. I went out to visit him and I was not attracted to him in any way shape or form. There was nothing. I immediately retreated. Later, I met my STBXH. He swept me off my feet, was attractive, etc. After 7yrs of being together and 5.5yrs of marriage and a young baby, he cheated on me and I filed for divorce yesterday. I regret so much turning away the great guy just because I wasn't attracted to him.


Heartbroken,

Let me put your mind at ease. I'm the girl that chose that 'great guy' you passed up. I was so determined not to trust my feelings that I completely undervalued them. My husband is that "dream" guy. Yet, here I am, 23 years down the road. Lonely, heart-sick, empty, and looking back at the years I've given him knowing I will never be able to change them or reclaim them. All I'm trying to say is that even a dream guy can be the wrong guy if he isn't YOUR dream.



zappy88200 said:


> One thing I have realized over the past few years is that women would not appreciate how much money you can save by doing all the repairs yourself, they see no value in it and dont appreciate your hard work.
> 
> The bitter truth is women like those men who are carefree, spend beyond their limits and do not do much household chores.
> 
> I am a prime example of this, I never used to get appreciation from my wife if I will save some money by doing some frugal work, instead she would think 'so what, its not a big deal'.


Zappy... you have no understanding of women. 



bobsmith said:


> "arrogance" is what I got labeled with by the ex. Apparently my confidence goes to far. I will admit that I have a lot of knowledge stuffed in my head but I need to learn how to communicate and share better without seeming superior I suppose.
> 
> ... I have been told by women that they did not think I would talk to them or that I seemed stiff.
> 
> Regarding the dating pool, I hate to admit it but the first thing in my mind when someone my age is single is "why are you single". I guess the type that I am attracted to is the type that typically marries once. I don't know, just a lot of crap in my head right now..


Bob,

As kindly as I can say this, you do come across as arrogant. You do come across as stiff. You do come across as judgmental and superior. You are so concerned about your fishing pond being full of only "rotten" fish with baggage. Have you considered that you also have baggage? 

I really do hope you will consider IC. I do believe you still have a chance of saving your marriage. I do think you have to focus on working on what you can control. If she is done, then it's over. Move on. If she still has any hope left, there's still a chance. 

My best wishes to you. 

Daisy


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Daisy2714 said:


> Bob,
> 
> 
> Bob,
> ...


I feel I am trying to work out some of my faults as I can see my judgmental stuff better now. 

It is very difficult to act the part people think should just be so easy. Act care free, bubbly, "move on", etc. It ain't that easy for me. It takes me a long time to become attached. 

I do want to ask what YOU think a guy in my position should do? I have asked my IC and she can't read my SO either. Do I try harder, not at all, etc? I read the link in my other post about blocking her. I am trying to do that now. It seems to make it worse BUT if she is leaving, this is more about me. 

She posted that she was "desperate" for a rental home only Wednesday all while she is still making dinner, and trying to act cordial. It is very hard to try with someone that is running AWAY and that is exactly what she always does. 

Through this whole process, I feel I have made tremendous changes in my personality and flaws. I am trying. It is very to move forward when she is kicking me constantly. 

Put it to you this way, for Christmas she wanted a very nice food processor. I took time to select just the right one and it was NOT cheap. I got socks and a blanket from her. Not that I am all that material during the holiday but come on.... Last year she did not do one friggin thing for my Bday. I repaid that favor this year a few days ago by doing absolutely nothing. No card, not even happy Bday. That might seem cold BUT why should I even make an effort with someone that obviously does not care about me or my feelings at all? I guess this was a day before she posted that she was "desperate" for a new home. 

I realize I am quoting gifts here but there is just more missing. She does things for me like cook things I like, grab things at the store, etc. In return I help around the house because I know she appreciates it. I also fix any and everything that needs it. She has told me that helping around the house is a turn on BUT I have yet to see that make ANY difference AT ALL. 

I came in last night after working late, started heating up my dinner that was in the kitchen and she was doing dishes. I picked up a towel and dried/put away everything before I ate. Did it make a dent? NOPE. 

She has never come and talked to me, never acted like I was her ONE, etc. Even our MC told her straight up no man is going to put up with that BS so she needs to make changes regardless. 

But rest assured, if she is in a total bind and needs help, THEN she comes to me in need. Of course I help, that is what I do. 

Her parents divorced but were still friends and she feels we need to be friends. I should go over have have dinner with them, visit, etc. LOL. Not that I have any desire to act childish but if we are done, we are DONE and I want to block as much of that pain as I can. I already told her to expect to communicate via email and text unless an emergency. Don;t call with your problems, do call to talk. 

Bob has made a decision clear as a bell, if she walks out this time (done this before), I will severe this deal for good. Not what I want but I can see me finally making the changes she wanted in my life and desiring that life back. NOPE.

NOTE: I am not a super outgoing person which makes meeting people tough. I am stiff until I drink a little. That has turned into a lot of drinking before and a DUI as well. I am trying to avoid those problems. I am a fun relaxed, funny person at home. I seem to pair well with intellectual people but always think there will be a conflict there. Strong headed women just don't do it for me. I have enough arrogance apparently. No need for more.


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## Daisy2714 (Sep 22, 2013)

bobsmith said:


> I feel I am trying to work out some of my faults as I can see my judgmental stuff better now.
> 
> It is very difficult to act the part people think should just be so easy. Act care free, bubbly, "move on", etc. It ain't that easy for me. It takes me a long time to become attached.
> 
> ...


Bob,

I cannot know what your wife is thinking without knowing her perspective. That is why I said in my previous post that I was suggesting why she MIGHT be acting the way she does. 

If I remember right from your other post, you have already read the "Five Love Languages". I think that part of the issues you are having stem from the two of you speaking different love languages. 

All of us receive love in different packages. For example, receiving gifts may be a big deal to you. To her it may not be. But everyone still likes to be thought of. Everyone still appreciates a gift even if it's not their primary or even secondary way of feeling loved. 

Put it another way. I am not a very material person. I couldn't really care less about jewelry. Sure some stuff is pretty to look at but honestly, I could take it or leave it. However, if my husband buys me a piece of jewelry, I cherish it. It has meaning attached to me because it is a reminder to me that he actually thought of me. It becomes special to me for that reason. It's an expression of how he sees me as a woman. That touches me. 

On the other hand, if I ask for something and he doesn't get it for me, I'm hurt. Particularly if he says that he will and then forgets. This is much more commonly what happens in my marriage. 

My birthday is in May. Consequently, Mothers Day celebration and my birthday tend to get lumped together. Often, I will get some flowers from two of my sons and a phone call from others. My husband will tell me what my present is and then tell me why he hasn't actually gotten it yet. Then he will promise to get it but often times, that promise is forgotten as soon as my birthday is over. 

I don't remind him. I feel like if I have to remind him, then I don't even want the gift. It's not the gift I care about. It's him. He would have done better to just say happy birthday and leave it at that rather than making a promise that wasn't sincere. 

Anyway, I am digressing. To answer your question, I would say that you need to decide what you really want. If you want to save your marriage, consider just taking her out on a date. Remember the things you guys used to do together when you were still in love. Do those things again. Say those things again. Either way, you need to focus on building your self confidence. You need to be ready to be on your own if things don't work out. Stop settling for a painful existence. You will be okay without her. You have a hard time letting go. This I understand. It's taken my 23 years to finally decide I can't keep this up. Don't let that be you. 

I'm so sorry for you pain.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

bobsmith said:


> It is very difficult to act the part people think should just be so easy. Act care free, bubbly, "move on", etc. It ain't that easy for me. It takes me a long time to become attached.
> 
> ...
> 
> NOTE: I am not a super outgoing person which makes meeting people tough. I am stiff until I drink a little. That has turned into a lot of drinking before and a DUI as well. I am trying to avoid those problems. I am a fun relaxed, funny person at home. I seem to pair well with intellectual people but always think there will be a conflict there. Strong headed women just don't do it for me. I have enough arrogance apparently. No need for more.


It doesn't actually sound like you want a person in your life. It sounds like you're just filling in the blanks. You talk about all the people you don't like and don't get along with and who have all kinds of baggage you can't even imagine...you never talk about any of it meaning anything to you at all. It sounds like having a wife or girlfriend is like having a car in the driveway. You have the right things in the right spaces.

Why even bother worrying about who you'll have next if that's the case? Just do your own thing. Sounds like it would be less distasteful to you.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Bob, plenty of similarities between your situation and where I was two years ago. I can hear the frustration in your words, but also sense that you are handling this quite well. What is important is that you seem like you are prepared to let her go if she does leave. Use that to your advantage. 

My advice:
1. Make yourself attractive. Lose pounds, lift weights, get a new hairstyle for your thinning hair, and slowly change your wardrobe. She will notice this immediately. 

2. Get off the dating sites and quit looking for people and wondering what is out there. There are plenty even for introverted people like yourself. And what the hell are you doing on a dating site if she still lives with you?

3. Complement her all the time even if she doesn't reciprocate. She doesn't because she isn't attracted to you at this point. Stiffing her on her birthday was stupid. Don't ever do anything like that again. 

4. Who cares if she doesn't appreciate your mechanical skills or frugality. Its expected of you that's why. So if you fix the washer, don't expect a compliment because its expected to be your job.

5. Treat her like a princess, but not over-the-top. By this I mean, do just something a little extra. Drying the dishes or fixing the washer isn't extra. That's your job. Take her to dinner, give her a parlor session or a massage, or whatever. 

6. Fix your business and earn more money. This is the toughest and most important, but being successful financially is a huge turn on. You don't need to be loaded, but earn more than you do now and you'll see what it does to your confidence level. 

In short, you are working on yourself. She may gradually see you more attractive and change her mind. If she leaves, then who cares, you are ready for it. But don't change the plan, keep on working on yourself and you will see how easy it is to find other women. 

It took me two years to figure this out and I am still a ways off from the self-improvement finish line, but the work is gradually paying off. I too thought it would be difficult to find other women but it just happens. Never would I imagine dating three different women, two in their 40's, one mid 30's, all in shape, and none looking for anything serious at this stage. I won't deny that its been loads of fun. 

Work hard Bob and you'll be pleasantly surprised.


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## Daisy2714 (Sep 22, 2013)

Alpha said:


> Bob, plenty of similarities between your situation and where I was two years ago. I can hear the frustration in your words, but also sense that you are handling this quite well. What is important is that you seem like you are prepared to let her go if she does leave. Use that to your advantage.
> 
> My advice:
> 1. Make yourself attractive. Lose pounds, lift weights, get a new hairstyle for your thinning hair, and slowly change your wardrobe. She will notice this immediately.
> ...


Alpha,

You said this all so much better than I ever could. It is excellent advice! Thank you.

Daisy


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Daisy, I've read your posts and have to say that your advice is basically just like mine. We probably do think alike.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> I think what I most pissed about is I have sort of known this all along. *When your new GF flat out says, I used to have a girl friend, I never want to get married, and I never want children.....
> 
> She *****es about being a mom*


Unless I'm missing something REALLY OBVIOUS, Bob, I think you're spinning your wheels trying to make this relationship be something it isn't. 

She's "desperate". Uh could that desperation stem from trying unsuccessfully for 10 years prove to herself and others that she's not a lesbian?

Let her go! Stay in IC (you have plenty of your own issues and baggage to clean up). Don't worry about a new relationship until you fix up the old Bob. Old Bob will have the same old relationships and problems. New Bob will have a new healthier style of relationships in the future.

I think it would be IMMENSELY helpful to print out this entire thread and show it to your counselor. I think she might be able to help you work on specific ideas/patterns that are written about in this thread.

Good luck, Bob!

BTW: Your UserName made me smile, it's my ex-H's actual name!

.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

You haven't begun to come to terms with losing the relationship you are still in. You have to grieve the loss before you can move on.


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