# Speedbump...hopefull nothing more.



## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Hello all. Just wanted to put my story out there for feedback. Quick note, this isn’t that intense and my wife and I are pretty good now. But I came TAM because of the following situation so I might as well share it. 

Wife and I have been married for 13 years, together close to 15. 4 kids, including one adoption. High school sweethearts and all that. I am in the military, we move every 4 years or so, so her and I and the family are pretty tight. Christians, involved in the church. Faith is a big part of our family dynamic, and her and my relationship. It isn’t a casual thing by any means. Sex is good, 2-3 times a week. 
My wife has home schooled our kids. I am super supportive of this endeavor. But last summer she started to get the itch to work again. I told her we didn’t need her to but if she wanted to do something to get out I supported her. I think other women in the church were spurring her on. 

She started working retail at a sporting goods store mid/late august of 2017. She is one of the older folks there, lots young peeps. Lots of chatting and “tom foolery” going on among some of the people. Not a highly professional environment.

She works nights and she makes some friends and it is all good. Couple of new Facebook friends. One guy. Still cool. Guys’ name comes up infrequently when talking about work, but around mid-September he no longer has a name. It is the Air Force (AF) guy now, when she labels him at all. Cool. No big deal. Until the last Sunday in September. We are driving back from church and she is pensively in thought. She then laments how some people get away with doing nothing simply because they are friends with the manager. No Segway into this conversation btw. She explains more and I ask her who is talking about…she doesn’t want to say. I keep pressing and finally she says the AF guy. I was like ok, well just say that. She then stops talking. My conspiracy mind is thinking why are thinking about this on the way home from church and why are you not wanting to share who you are talking about?
Two days later I login to her Facebook (we do this) to check on a mutual female friend of ours who is not my FB friend (absent from church…no kidding ends up she left because she was having an affair). There is a conversation notification so I look, her and this guy are talking about his trip to Vegas and whether he will have a job when he comes back, she replies she is sure he will (Vegas shooting had just happened). The problem was it looked like there was more convo but she was possibly deleting it as it went. She then deleted it before my very eyes. I get mad. That night she comes home and I am shut-up/in communicatively. Next day I round about ask her if she deletes texts from anyone at all. She says no. Later she jokes she would if she thought I would get mad. A few days later, still I am communicatevly locked up. I search her FB history, can see that she searches for this guy regularly. She was searching before they were FB friends and after. She searched for others (from work guys and gals) as well. No more messaging as far as I can tell. When she goes to work I login to her account, both FB and Verizon to see. Nothing. 

10 days later, we’ve just had a good night. A little drinking, little loving, I am getting over it. She isn’t searching for the dude. We are laying in bed and my wife is a little drunk. She out of nowhere starts talking about how this guys’ wife comes into the store sometimes…only now she says his name. Because she is drunk? She says the wife “mean mugged” her…then she goes a really out of character for her. Starts saying things to the effect of “if you want some, come get some (to the wife)”. The alcohol? I am over on my side just listening like, WTF is going on, is this my wife. Super out of character. She sounded like a side chick. 

Sunday comes around, she normally does all her shopping. She will typically come home, change, then go out to get groceries. This time she doesn’t change, and she looks great. It is also kind of cold. Odd that she doesn’t change. Anyways, she comes home and tells me she went to her work to get her schedule for the following week and to buy her brother a gift card. She worked the next day. I’m thinking you could have easily done both things tomorrow. Found out later the guy only works Tuesdays, but this still bothered me. She had our daughter with her.

Two days later, she has had enough of my silence. She prods, I let her know what I saw with the texts and a little of her actions/non-verbals. She goes hysterical. He is nothing, not even a friend…there were only those texts she says. I am heated so I sleep on the couch. She comes out crying trying to get me to come back. I told her I am not mad but I can’t sleep so I stay on the couch.
We are silent with each other but we warm up. A week later, she comes home from work. It is Tuesday. I’ve started asking her who all she works with. I do the same. She tells me a host of folks. I look at her humorously annoyed…after more prodding she then says and “yes (guys name) was working. I told her thank you, just tell me and get mad again and lay into her with the same feelings of why do you act different with this dude. She cries, says it wasn’t her intent. We kind of make-up and I let it go.

I installed a keylogger on the computer and I track her Facebook searches and regular (not SMS) texting. I also have her SMS setup to work through Facebook and I get a notification via email when she receives a message through FB. Nothing since as far as messaging.

I told her she had to put in to not work Tuesdays, she complied without issue. I still ask her about her day, trying to come off as not snooping. I do care about her day, apart from her opposite sex interactions but at this point it is hard not to care more about the one more. I show up to work unannounced. Nothing out of the ordinary. She is always really happy to see us. 
She has searched for the guy a good handful of times since I initially approached her. One as late as Dec 23, which to me, there was zero reason for this. But since it was near Christmas and we were with family I let it go. If it happens again I will confront her. She already knows that if something happens again I would inform her folks and mine (we are all pretty close). 

My assessment, it was a work crush type thing. First time back in the workforce, first time on her own. They work near each other, like her area is close to his. I got annoyed when I realized he could basically be staring at her @$$ the whole night based on their work spots. HE’s got this cowboy thing going on…shes always had a thing for cowboys in movies. 

Sorry for being long winded. A lot of it is the non-verbal/between the lines stuff and that takes longer to explain. Thanks for reading or just scanning!


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

I would suggest she stop working there. It sounds as though you've caught this train wreck before it's happened, and it's best to withdraw from this bad situation while you're ahead. It would be unwise to continue allowing her to work with a man she's crushing on. It would be leaving the door open for future problems and heartache.

Ask her to quit, and get another job elsewhere. A nursing home maybe. Not a lot of cute guys hanging around there


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Sounds like there was definately something going on. An EA at least. Time to go in to 007 mode. Stop giving away your sources. She knows you monitor Facebook so she has stopped interactions about him there. Pretend to drop the matter, stop asking her things, and silently intently investigate things without telling her. A VAR in her car would be a great start.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Another sahm wants attention .

I smell a rat.

And he wears a cowboy hat!


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

BioFury said:


> I would suggest she stop working there. It sounds as though you've caught this train wreck before it's happened, and it's best to withdraw from this bad situation while you're ahead. It would be unwise to continue allowing her to work with a man she's crushing on. It would be leaving the door open for future problems and heartache.
> 
> Ask her to quit, and get another job elsewhere. A nursing home maybe. Not a lot of cute guys hanging around there


We'll be moving soon, she's down to two days a week. If I am reading her right, she is going to want to quit soon here anyways. She doesn't work the one night this guy works. I am sure of it.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

If your sure she hasn't already cheated .then its time to up your game!

Give her the attention shes missing instead of waiting for a problem with her seeking it elsewhere.

Pay the cowboy a visit. Pull him aside and let him know if he contacts her in any way shape or form outside of work hes in for an ass kicking!


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

chillymorn69 said:


> If your sure she hasn't already cheated .then its time to up your game!
> 
> Give her the attention shes missing instead of waiting for a problem with her seeking it elsewhere.
> 
> Pay the cowboy a visit. Pull him aside and let him know if he contacts her in any way shape or form outside of work hes in for an ass kicking!


Dear OP;

I agree with all, but the confrontation & ass kicking..... as you will be leaving soon. 

Take this as a wake up call that your wife needs you to romance her. Don't take her for granted. 

Also don't pout by sleeping on the sofa.....your marriage bed is important don't abandon it whe you are unhappy. Since you are in the military, The Gottmans have marriage workshops with miitary discounts in how to improve your relationship. Take to your military support group and see if they have anything like that at your next posting.

Good luck!


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Young at Heart said:


> Dear OP;
> 
> I agree with all, but the confrontation & ass kicking..... as you will be leaving soon.
> 
> ...


So a lot of comments on romancing her and paying attention. If that really is what it is, then that makes me more mad. We were good, really good. I was good regarding this aspect of our relationship. I don't think I was ever taking her for granted. We had date nights regularly and I was spontaneous and stuff. I make her a priority when I come home from work, buy her gifts out of nowhere, and really listne when she speaks (part of the problem, I know her too well and how she communicates). Our relationship had, up to this point, really blossomed from when we were first married 13 years. I love her more, am more attracted to her, and show her more regularly the way I feel. I think she would say the same, but I don't know. 

Also call it pouting if you want, I legitimately was just wired. Like could have ran a 5k at that moment, adrenaline. I am not good at arguments.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

cashcratebob said:


> So a lot of comments on romancing her and paying attention. If that really is what it is, then that makes me more mad. We were good, really good. I was good regarding this aspect of our relationship. I don't think I was ever taking her for granted. We had date nights regularly and I was spontaneous and stuff. I make her a priority when I come home from work, buy her gifts out of nowhere, and really listne when she speaks (part of the problem, I know her too well and how she communicates). Our relationship had, up to this point, really blossomed from when we were first married 13 years. I love her more, am more attracted to her, and show her more regularly the way I feel. I think she would say the same, *but I don't know*.
> 
> Also call it pouting if you want, I legitimately was just wired. Like could have ran a 5k at that moment, adrenaline. I am not good at arguments.


It's good to feel like you are putting in the time and things are heading in the right direction, even before this but YOU NEED TO KNOW. Ask her how she feels, honestly and don't be judgemental. Then continue to work on what you have been all along and what she genuinely says she needs that makes sense to the both of you. I thought things were starting to turn the corner for us as well in terms of the kids getting older, we were going out more with friends, doing adult things and then she saw her best friend/brief affair partner for the first time in years and it brought back all of the warm and fuzzies for her and started to rewrite our marriage in her head. We however, had communication issues in general. She's a tough hombre to get along with because whatever you do is wrong and when you make the attempt to breakthrough or change, it's still wrong. She was getting better but that's what sucks at the timing, it was all lost when she was actually debating quitting her job because it sucked for her, she had a territory that was desolate in her sales region and then stumbled upon this guy out of the blue and the rest is history. 7 Months of me trying everything in the pick me battle to epic failure and the court dates are now set. Not saying this is even remotely what will happen in your case because I don't think it will but, what you don't know, you need to, that's my recommendation. Assumptions end up turning into taking Ls.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> It's good to feel like you are putting in the time and things are heading in the right direction, even before this but YOU NEED TO KNOW. Ask her how she feels, honestly and don't be judgemental. Then continue to work on what you have been all along and what she genuinely says she needs that makes sense to the both of you. I thought things were starting to turn the corner for us as well in terms of the kids getting older, we were going out more with friends, doing adult things and then she saw her best friend/brief affair partner for the first time in years and it brought back all of the warm and fuzzies for her and started to rewrite our marriage in her head. We however, had communication issues in general. She's a tough hombre to get along with because whatever you do is wrong and when you make the attempt to breakthrough or change, it's still wrong. She was getting better but that's what sucks at the timing, it was all lost when she was actually debating quitting her job because it sucked for her, she had a territory that was desolate in her sales region and then stumbled upon this guy out of the blue and the rest is history. 7 Months of me trying everything in the pick me battle to epic failure and the court dates are now set. Not saying this is even remotely what will happen in your case because I don't think it will but, what you don't know, you need to, that's my recommendation. Assumptions end up turning into taking Ls.


 @stillfightingforus thanks for the feedback. I very much appreciate it. I will take the advice. To everyone else, thank you for providing perspective.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

"Wife, at a minimum, there is attraction there based on your behavior. I understand that. I am attracted to many women I meet throughout the day. What isn't okay is secrecy. When you initiate contact with him, then delete correspondence, it leads me to believe there is more going on because I can no longer trust you to be honest with me. I won't remain married to someone I cannot trust."

Then walk away. She will likely get mad and say that she can be trusted.

"It is hard to hear your words when your actions speak so loudly."

You are not out of the woods yet. She is crushing on him. That is why she is searching his name, and why she deleted the correspondence.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don’t understand the situation with his wife. Are you saying she was in a verbal altercation with his wife? I take it his wife called her out for messing with her husband and your wife offered to go toe to toe with her!

What did she say when you pointed out she lied about deleting their maesasges and why she felt she needed to hide them?

What did you mean she was searching for him online? You mean like multiple google searches for any available information? Why did she say she was continually searching him out?

Sounds like your marriage may have been in serious jeopardy. I hope you aren’t in denial about this. There are a lot f red flags. When she stopped using his name things had gotten really out of hand. That is common with these cheating threads and so obvious it’s funny.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

So you first noticed odd behavior in September and confronted your wife in late Sept or early October? She is still searching for him online just before Christmas?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

It bothers me that in the same post you write you are good Christians and then post about an ass kicking. The reality of it is that you’d be taking your aggressions towards her out on him.

Anyway, how do you think she views her life? Sure, you can say that she says all the right things and loves it all. But do you really know? Maybe she feels constricted, maybe smothered? While there is no good reason for cheating, we all know this, just having her change jobs does nothing. This isn’t the guy, it’s her. She may not like her life and doesn’t know how else to handle it.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

cashcratebob said:


> So a lot of comments on romancing her and paying attention. If that really is what it is, then that makes me more mad. We were good, really good. I was good regarding this aspect of our relationship. I don't think I was ever taking her for granted. We had date nights regularly and I was spontaneous and stuff. I make her a priority when I come home from work, buy her gifts out of nowhere, and really listne when she speaks (part of the problem, I know her too well and how she communicates). Our relationship had, up to this point, really blossomed from when we were first married 13 years. I love her more, am more attracted to her, and show her more regularly the way I feel. I think she would say the same, but I don't know.
> 
> Also call it pouting if you want, I legitimately was just wired. Like could have ran a 5k at that moment, adrenaline. I am not good at arguments.


Don't take it personally. Its more about her insecurities and flaws then anything about you. Attention from someone else is a huge EGO boost. The fact that you were high school sweethearts means she has not had much attention from anyone else but you. Was probably a little exciting and spurred her into a bit of fantasy thinking. Good thing you caught it. But even after you move - if she gets another job - be wary. This shows she is susceptible.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> "Wife, at a minimum, there is attraction there based on your behavior. I understand that. I am attracted to many women I meet throughout the day. What isn't okay is secrecy. When you initiate contact with him, then delete correspondence, it leads me to believe there is more going on because I can no longer trust you to be honest with me. I won't remain married to someone I cannot trust."
> 
> Then walk away. She will likely get mad and say that she can be trusted.
> 
> ...


Great advice, if she searches again, I will do just this.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> I don’t understand the situation with his wife. Are you saying she was in a verbal altercation with his wife? I take it his wife called her out for messing with her husband and your wife offered to go toe to toe with her!
> 
> What did she say when you pointed out she lied about deleting their maesasges and why she felt she needed to hide them?
> 
> ...


Sorry for the confusion. No altercation with my wife and his wife. Just mean looks. Like the way my wife describes it, she was staring at her in a mean way.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Be careful. She has tasted the fantasy excitement feeling and it was sweet and appealing to her. Real life with kids and hubby can't give her anything close to that feeling. The history re-writing that another poster warned you about, often occurs after the taste of fantasy excitement. So don't rug sweep this. You may not be out of the woods yet, given that she is still looking him up - which means she is still continuing the fantasy. 

I'll say it again - she is susceptible. May need to address this head on - as in bluntly addressing the topic of fantasy excitement & marital history re-writing. Try to get her to talk about what she was feeling during this whole thing to help her see what was actually happening and what could have happened and the consequences that would have played out - and not let her keep only the fantasy in her head. Kind of like pointing out to the king that he was really naked and not wearing a magical outfit. Maybe get some counseling cause hearing it from a third party can really shatter the fantasy. Also - she may need to address with a professional the underlining issues that is drawing her to this fantasy. You could also get the book - Affair proof your marriage and read and discuss it together.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

cashcratebob said:


> So a lot of comments on romancing her and paying attention. If that really is what it is, then that makes me more mad. We were good, really good. I was good regarding this aspect of our relationship. I don't think I was ever taking her for granted. We had date nights regularly and I was spontaneous and stuff. I make her a priority when I come home from work, buy her gifts out of nowhere, and really listne when she speaks (part of the problem, I know her too well and how she communicates). Our relationship had, up to this point, really blossomed from when we were first married 13 years. I love her more, am more attracted to her, and show her more regularly the way I feel. I think she would say the same, but I don't know.


There are many like you(and females) that are the model H, W, mother, father and providers that does not amount to a hill of beans if OM/OW start giving the attention to the model H/W spouse. Some get this idea that you are "supposed to do those things because you are my spouse." For the life of me I can never get over why one will say, "I love you." and get a response "your my W/H your supposed to." It totally meaningless them. But have someone else start giving attention it is totally different and real to them.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> "Wife, at a minimum, there is attraction there based on your behavior. I understand that. I am attracted to many women I meet throughout the day. What isn't okay is secrecy. When you initiate contact with him, then delete correspondence, it leads me to believe there is more going on because I can no longer trust you to be honest with me. I won't remain married to someone I cannot trust."
> 
> Then walk away. She will likely get mad and say that she can be trusted.
> 
> "It is hard to hear your words when your actions speak so loudly."


And follow that up with, "I do not share my W with any man. If you decide you want to do that it will be the last day you are my W." This leaves no doubt were you stand when it come to infidelity in any form.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

The remark about crushing on a coworker hit home but not in a personal way. My wife and I work in the financial industry. I work primarily with taxation, whereas she is a specialist in small business. She works with a goodly number of women, and supervises several. One of her support staff, a married woman in her 40's began crushing on one of the CSR's. It was fairly obvious, and it was uncomfortable for other staff. My wife asked my opinion, and I told her that kind of situation can lead to toxicity in the workplace. She called a few HR associations to get some further feedback. Then, she basically pulled this woman aside and told her that her behavior was not conducive to a positive workplace, then, as my wife is wont, she got personal. She pointed out that behavior of this nature is more commonplace in high school. She pointed out that the employee is married, and this kind of behavior ends marriages, and finally, she told the staff that if the behavior continued past that week, the employee would be out of a job. The woman lasted another week or so, then voluntarily resigned. 

My wife said that she was obsessing, and could not continue in this job as long as he worked there. I asked my wife what this guy was like, and she said that the entire thing just escaped her, he really is nothing special. If she weren't crushing on him, he'd be nearly invisible.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Herschel said:


> It bothers me that in the same post you write you are good Christians and then post about an ass kicking. The reality of it is that you’d be taking your aggressions towards her out on him.
> 
> Anyway, how do you think she views her life? Sure, you can say that she says all the right things and loves it all. But do you really know? Maybe she feels constricted, maybe smothered? While there is no good reason for cheating, we all know this, just having her change jobs does nothing. This isn’t the guy, it’s her. She may not like her life and doesn’t know how else to handle it.


Herschel, read all proceeding posts. I did not say anything about @$$ kicking, that was someone elses' comment. I actually have very little aggression towards the guy, I have nothing to base any aggression on. My issue is squarely with my wife.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

mary35 said:


> Don't take it personally. Its more about her insecurities and flaws then anything about you. Attention from someone else is a huge EGO boost. The fact that you were high school sweethearts means she has not had much attention from anyone else but you. Was probably a little exciting and spurred her into a bit of fantasy thinking. Good thing you caught it. But even after you move - if she gets another job - be wary. This shows she is susceptible.


This right here probably speaks to me the most and is in my opinion, the closest to the reality of what is going on. I will still take everyone else's advice to heart.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

cashcratebob said:


> We'll be moving soon, she's down to two days a week. If I am reading her right, she is going to want to quit soon here anyways. She doesn't work the one night this guy works. I am sure of it.


Right before you guys move or she quits, she’ll see the other guy. Just to say “bye” “good luck” “I’ll miss working with you” “I really like you”.....things she been wanting to tell him for a long time. Bank on it!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

cashcratebob said:


> Herschel, read all proceeding posts. I did not say anything about @$$ kicking, that was someone elses' comment. I actually have very little aggression towards the guy, I have nothing to base any aggression on. *My issue is squarely with my wife.*


You are thinking clearly. Keep it up!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Tobyboy said:


> Right before you guys move or she quits, she’ll see the other guy. Just to say “bye” “good luck” “I’ll miss working with you” “I really like you”.....things she been wanting to tell him for a long time. Bank on it!


Concur.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Be careful. We have all read this story 100 times on here. Lots of SAHM end up going off the deep end and cheating once they transition to working again. If it was me I would make her very aware what life will be like without you, and that if she decides to go this route there will be no marriage. What her kids life will be like. 

I would send her to go read on SurvivingInfidelity.com myself. That will give her a good example of the pain she will cause. That is the headache she will bring on your whole families life. Suggest counseling. 

Keep a good eye on the apps on her phone as well, might want to show up at the job unannounced too.

Here is the deal it's OK she has a crush, that is normal actually. But being a good spouse means you don't act on it, at all. You don't push a little and enjoy it. You don't dream about it. You think, that person is nice, OK moving on. You need to reinforce this with her. Talk about it, ask her what kind of person does she want to be? Does she really see herself being with you for the rest of her life. Make it very plain that that won't be the case if she goes any further with this.

Really this is a crossroads for her, this is a test of her determination to be married. It's easy when the only people she is are around is your kids. If she is having trouble she can do things to help her, counseling, reading online. But make no mistake there is the potential for her to ruin yours, your kids and eventually her own life. 

All of you will never fully recover if she pursues her own selfishness.

Having read this type of story before I have come to believe some stay at home parents do not live in an adult world, they are never forced to make complete autonomous decisions, many times they are protected from consequences. In many cases the dynamic is more of a parent with a child. So they act out on their spouse often as a child will act out on a parent. They also perceive the consequences the way a child would. Meaning they will get punished and then things will go back to normal. A lot of times it creates a skewed perception and why I have grown to think the whole thing is a bad idea. This being just one of the reasons. She needs to understand that this will not be the consequences. There will be adult consequences meaning life will forever change your marriage will probably not survive. She needs to take adult steps to deal with her temptations. You can convey all this in a mature manner which actually bonds you. Do not couch what you think is happening. "Why did you disrespect me while I was in the room. Why did you go to see him all dressed up. What happened that day, tell me the truth. Realize that we made an oath to God and I know he will find a way to let me know if you did something so you should tell me know if you want a chance." In the end it's really it's up to her. She is going to need to grow up. 

One more thing, I hope you got this in time. Var in the car might be a good idea. The biggest red flag is the fact that she was willing to disrespect you while you were in the room. That to me is a very bad sign. It means she wants the attention more then she fears your response. Not good. Then after giving him the invitation she went to work dressed up, knowing he is there. It doesn't take long to engage in inappropriate stuff. 

Honestly dude do you think there is a chance that something already happened and that is what this is really about? I wish I could tell you this is a speed bump I really do. 

I wish you luck.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

What bothers me OP is that you brought this up in September and she was still searching for him online as late as December 23 while you were with family. It’s kind of late now but seriously on the next search or contact set her straight. Go off on her. She has him on her mind. She needs a good scare to make her know she will lose you and break up the family if she continues down this road. You cannot force someone to love you or stay with you or not cheat on you but you can set your boundaries and get angry when she crosses them.
Christians are tempted, just like anyone else.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashcratebob said:


> So a lot of comments on romancing her and paying attention. If that really is what it is, then that makes me more mad. We were good, really good. I was good regarding this aspect of our relationship. I don't think I was ever taking her for granted. We had date nights regularly and I was spontaneous and stuff. I make her a priority when I come home from work, buy her gifts out of nowhere, and really listne when she speaks (part of the problem, I know her too well and how she communicates). Our relationship had, up to this point, really blossomed from when we were first married 13 years. I love her more, am more attracted to her, and show her more regularly the way I feel. I think she would say the same, but I don't know.


People cheat because there is something wrong with THEM, immaturity, past childhood issues, just plain selfishness. You are making a big tactical error if you think you can just be a good enough husband and she won't cheat. Or that she is a Christian and therefor she won't cheat. There are people in terrible relationships who are taken for granted and never cheat. Some people get treated really well and become entitled. Lots of immature people do this actually, we have all read this lots of times. They start to see their spouse as a given like furniture in their life. In some respects it could be better off to detach a little and let them chase you. 

If anything use that to make you confident. You can do the same stuff for someone else is she decides to ruin her life.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Herschel said:


> It bothers me that in the same post you write you are good Christians and then post about an ass kicking. The reality of it is that you’d be taking your aggressions towards her out on him.


You can can that crap. I serve an asskicking God and I am a very successful asskicker myself.

If OM is putting the moves on a married woman, he has a beating coming at least.

Not alleviating the responsibility of the silly wife here but being Christian in no way means non violent pacifist.

A guy got belligerent with my wife years ago and stuck his finger right in her face while I was standing next to her.

The next instant, he was 15 feet away, laying down with blood coming out of his mouth.

I was a Christian at the time and behaved like a proper Christian husband should.

"Christian" men who never raise a hand no matter what is going on are just pussies hiding behind religion.

OM might have it coming here.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> Concur.


Be assured that it she were to quite and it happened to fall on a Tuesday, I would be there. I will be there on her last day, family in tow, regardless.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Tobyboy said:


> Right before you guys move or she quits, she’ll see the other guy. Just to say “bye” “good luck” “I’ll miss working with you” “I really like you”.....things she been wanting to tell him for a long time. Bank on it!


I will be there, with kids in tow, the day she quits.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashcratebob said:


> I will be there, with kids in tow, the day she quits.


You should make a point of showing up kids in tow when he is there. Get her back to Mom mode, get him thinking about her as a Mom of 4.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Be careful. We have all read this story 100 times on here. * Lots of SAHM end up going off the deep end and cheating once they transition to working again.* If it was me I would make her very aware what life will be like without you, and that if she decides to go this route there will be no marriage. What her kids life will be like.
> 
> I would send her to go read on SurvivingInfidelity.com myself. That will give her a good example of the pain she will cause. That is the headache she will bring on your whole families life. Suggest counseling.
> *
> ...


SOKILLME, thanks for your perspective. Seriously, the items I have bolded really speak to me regarding the situation. I appreciate you taking the time. So as far as VAR, it would be a smidge difficult, we have a "talk to each other about every expenditure" type relationship and we have joint accounts which she checks for her reasons (online bill pay) and I check for mine (long-term savings, ID theft).Plus again, homeschooling stay-at-home mom with four kids, two of which tell me literally everything about their day and can't lie. But we'll see. I can monitor her phone, the calls and texts, and I have been every time she leaves for work (obsessed much  ) . I've checked her purse multiple times for a burner phone (because TAM told me to) and it is my truck she takes to work. 

To answer your final question, no not at all, I don't think anything happened. The reason we are here is because I can read her and I am really sure she wouldn't be able to hide it (I know typical right? ) I think others have commented with what I think is more going on in her head and I think nothing actually happened. To reiterate, that isn't what I suspect. I suspect she has lied to me about the amount that she talks to the guy while at work, that she consciously/unconsciously gave away that she was attracted by her choosing to hide the texts and hide any dialog about him. That she may enjoy the conversation and interaction too much. There are other guys she works with, same age, all that. No problems talking about them at all. 

I wouldn't be able to say that I have no basis for aggression against the dude, if I felt otherwise.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

JayDee7 said:


> What bothers me OP is that you brought this up in September and she was still searching for him online as late as December 23 while you were with family. It’s kind of late now but seriously on the next search or contact set her straight. Go off on her. She has him on her mind. She needs a good scare to make her know she will lose you and break up the family if she continues down this road. You cannot force someone to love you or stay with you or not cheat on you but you can set your boundaries and get angry when she crosses them.
> Christians are tempted, just like anyone else.


Thank you. This is good. I will confront if I find another reason to for sure, with the words given to me in this thread. 

I agree with the Christian thing for sure. I think to often we Christians don't really understand that and don't set the boundaries that are necessary. Not to go off on a religious tangent, but wife and I were talking about David and Bathsheeba the other day. I told her, you know what we get wrong about that story. Its not the focus on God's grace to restore David after he did the horrible things he did. We should really focus on the fact that we need to freaking guard ourselves better. That should be the legit, no sh!t take away from that. He wrote books of the bible, and yet he fell for goodness sake.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> You can can that crap. I serve an asskicking God and I am a very successful asskicker myself.
> 
> If OM is putting the moves on a married woman, he has a beating coming at least.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything said, except it wasn't me who talked about the @$$ kicking. No reason to believe that this guy instigated anything other than talking with my wife.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashcratebob said:


> SOKILLME, thanks for your perspective. Seriously, the items I have bolded really speak to me regarding the situation. I appreciate you taking the time. So as far as VAR, it would be a smidge difficult, we have a "talk to each other about every expenditure" type relationship and we have joint accounts which she checks for her reasons (online bill pay) and I check for mine (long-term savings, ID theft).Plus again, homeschooling stay-at-home mom with four kids, two of which tell me literally everything about their day and can't lie. But we'll see. I can monitor her phone, the calls and texts, and I have been every time she leaves for work (obsessed much  ) . I've checked her purse multiple times for a burner phone (because TAM told me to) and it is my truck she takes to work.
> 
> To answer your final question, no not at all, I don't think anything happened. The reason we are here is because I can read her and I am really sure she wouldn't be able to hide it (I know typical right? ) I think others have commented with what I think is more going on in her head and I think nothing actually happened. To reiterate, that isn't what I suspect. I suspect she has lied to me about the amount that she talks to the guy while at work, that she consciously/unconsciously gave away that she was attracted by her choosing to hide the texts and hide any dialog about him. That she may enjoy the conversation and interaction too much. There are other guys she works with, same age, all that. No problems talking about them at all.
> 
> I wouldn't be able to say that I have no basis for aggression against the dude, if I felt otherwise.


Show up at the job with the kids a lot. Unannounced. Drop her off, go somewhere with the kids for 20 mins and then come back and say the kids wanted to say goodbye to her. Throw her off. 

So it sounds like you have been reading on here which is good. Then you have some idea how this stuff works. In my mind your wife is at the very early stages. She has an attraction to someone and she probably is dealing with the fact that she has 4 kids and it has been a long time that someone new took interest. In her mind she feels only like a Mom, and this changes that. (YOU can do this for her. Get someone to stay with the kids, don't tell her but have them call you before they walk in, text her to meet you at a hotel, stuff like that. Or going into the city and making it like you are single on a date.) She is probably surprised that she has feelings. She has lived a sheltered life married her high school sweetheart. She is a christian and maybe thinks a christian women would never have these feelings. Thing is that is not how it works. 

I think you should just talk about the elephant in the room. "What's really doing on? Wife it hurts a little but I understand that you find this guy attractive. Why didn't you talk to me. Why aren't you protecting me and our kids? If you don't know how to please ask someone for help. Talk to the pastor, get some counseling, read some blogs. Please protect our family. I am worried because for the first time in our relationship you are not protecting our family you are making decision for yourself. We had a dream to do this and I am worried you are going to ruin it." I say do this at least once. But that doesn't mean you can't also use the stick too. 

Both of you need to understand that this stuff happens from time to time. I think being high school sweethearts you guys don't have the same kind of experience that others do who have been with a few people and know and may even have blown up relationships because of this stuff. It's actually quite normal. However people who know this have already put boundaries in place to mitigate temptation. 

Your wife needs and emotional component to make it real to her. This is why I suggest reading on that site, because now it's not just how much fun the attention from him would be, it's how much damage it would do to her entire life. 

She needs to understand this now because people who continually flounder when this stuff happens make really bad spouses. Unfortunately the thing that finally wakes them up is when the damage is done and it's too late to fix. She needs to get this. If you are really going to be together forever there needs to be conviction and purpose not just responding to you being upset. It needs to be proactive. 

I am hesitant to suggest reading "Not Just Friends" because I don't think she has cheated, though going to the place dressed up worries me, however I know there is a lot of stuff in there about boundaries. This is serious stuff and it can reinforce your marriage and make it stronger but she needs to appreciate that, and you need to be the leader in this.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashcratebob said:


> Thank you. This is good. I will confront if I find another reason to for sure, with the words given to me in this thread.
> 
> I agree with the Christian thing for sure. I think to often we Christians don't really understand that and don't set the boundaries that are necessary. Not to go off on a religious tangent, but wife and I were talking about David and Bathsheeba the other day. I told her, you know what we get wrong about that story. Its not the focus on God's grace to restore David after he did the horrible things he did. We should really focus on the fact that we need to freaking guard ourselves better. That should be the legit, no sh!t take away from that. He wrote books of the bible, and yet he fell for goodness sake.


Amen!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

What struck me, worth my bothering to post, is it seems to me your wife has not suffered any consequences for the lies she has already told. She cried a little because you absented yourself from the bedroom, but I doubt she really felt why you did that. It also seems unclear if you know why.

I would suggest there should be clear and definitive consequences which matter for lies, and she should know they are applied for the lies she has already told. No more of this "if she does it one more time" stuff. She has lied. You let it slide way too easily.

That's just my opinion of course. And my own reaction to my wife when my wife lied was much too severe. However, my wife had an affair. And even though I reacted strongly to her lies, and made certain my wife knew I was very angry because she had lied, and the things I was doing were as a direct consequence of her lies, she did continue to lie. So my experience is probably not useful to you. My wife is a sick little girl, though. 

I still think someone who lies thinks it's okay to lie if you don't react strongly to discovering that first lie, and any more you discover. You have been extremely forgiving, acting as though her initial lies were nothing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

cashcratebob said:


> I agree with everything said, except it wasn't me who talked about the @$$ kicking. No reason to believe that this guy instigated anything other than talking with my wife.


Yeah. I was aware but comments like that get my blood up.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Show up at the job with the kids a lot. Unannounced. Drop her off, go somewhere with the kids for 20 mins and then come back and say the kids wanted to say goodbye to her. Throw her off.
> 
> So it sounds like you have been reading on here which is good. Then you have some idea how this stuff works. I*n my mind your wife is at the very early stages. She has an attraction to someone and she probably is dealing with the fact that she has 4 kids and it has been a long time that someone new took interest. In her mind she feels only like a Mom, and this changes that. (YOU can do this for her. Get someone to stay with the kids, don't tell her but have them call you before they walk in, text her to meet you at a hotel, stuff like that. Or going into the city and making it like you are single on a date.) She is probably surprised that she has feelings. She has lived a sheltered life married her high school sweetheart.* She is a christian and maybe thinks a christian women would never have these feelings. Thing is that is not how it works.
> 
> ...


 All really good advice. I think I am at the point where if it (a search on FB or internet) then I will do everything suggested. I will look at some of the literature suggested and introduce it as something we can go through now. Also, I want to clarify, she didn't go to her work dressed up on Sunday for him. I am certain that he doesn't work Sundays and certain she knew this already. Not sure why she did this...she does have a lot of lady friends there, maybe just to show the "put together" side of her.

Again, thank you for taking the time. I will read over these responses multiple times for sure.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

WilliamM said:


> What struck me, worth my bothering to post, is it seems to me your wife has not suffered any consequences for the lies she has already told. She cried a little because you absented yourself from the bedroom, but I doubt she really felt why you did that. It also seems unclear if you know why.
> 
> I would suggest there should be clear and definitive consequences which matter for lies, and she should know they are applied for the lies she has already told. No more of this "if she does it one more time" stuff. She has lied. You let it slide way too easily.
> 
> ...


So I got pretty intense when I confronted. But there were no "consequences" specified, that is valid. Also, it was hard, I don't like putting my wife in that situation. No gas lighting or anger, just crying and freaking out on her part. Also, it is hard to detail, but she has made comments that she knows things are different now, she can tell. She asks me all the time if we are good. I am not cold or mean, but she definirlt set me back and she feels it. She is too embarrassed to say it out loud that she knows the problem (I suspect). Communication...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

"Of course things are different. You made a significant breach of trust. One would think that after such actions you would not do things to further jeopardize our marriage. I only wish that were true."


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

What I find very disturbing:

1. She deleted messages.
2. You actually saw her delete things right off your screen.
3. Shortly later, you asked her directly, does she ever delete, she lies to your face. 
4. This is something you have never seen from her in 15 years.
*Summary - deletes, lies to you directly, new behavior in 15 years. Very disturbing.*

Did you ask her directly about her lies and was her response satisfactory?

1. She deleted, boldly lied, and had a brand new behavior.
2. He was texting her about Vegas. Thinking about her when he was not working.
3. Your wife is searching him online, pre-occupied with him while with you.
4. This is mutual.
5. Do you really believe there "messages" were innocent, talk about work? If not, what did they talk about? How often? How did they get each other's phone numbers? Who was the first one who started communicating outside of work?
6. Perhaps most disturbing, when you brought it up, the messages stopped cold. Not a single message. How did the other man's know not to send any more messages to her?

Have you asked her about what they talked about and how often, how they started communicating outside of work?

1. The night she seemed drunk, speaking in ways that you never saw before during 15 years.
2. New behavior. Very disturbing.

1. She stayed all dressed and went to shop. You thought unusual. Later you found she went to work. You again thought unusual because he could have done it the very next day instead of going out of her way that day.

I have read a lot about infidelity. I've seen it up front many times. My belief is that there is rarely a coincidence in cheating. If you knew all the information, it would all make perfect sense to you. That day, she thought she might see him somewhere. Probably at the store. This was for him, not the girls. Count on it.

He was a cowboy and he liked her. He gave her the look. That is a thrill. Her cowboy likes her. Him? She was the new girl at the store. Fresh meat. You already said, a store like that is like a high school sock hop. I have close sisters, growing up I heard all the crazy stuff they focused on guys. Firemen, police, cowboys, whatever. I am still close, some women move on and grow up, some still hold onto a bit of their childhood fantasies. Do not discount how close you and her escaped away from a marriage-crushing affair. She was deeply infatuated, searching him online for at least three months. And that is with not too much going on in the real life. Imagine if they worked together knowing it was indefinite, her not knowing to move on, and if you didn't find anything. I give it 3-6 more months tops.

I think this situation is in its rearview lights now. Still, if it were me, there were about 3 new bad behaviors you hadn't previously seen before in 15 years together. Not good.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashcratebob said:


> All really good advice. I think I am at the point where if it (a search on FB or internet) then I will do everything suggested. I will look at some of the literature suggested and introduce it as something we can go through now. Also, I want to clarify, she didn't go to her work dressed up on Sunday for him. I am certain that he doesn't work Sundays and certain she knew this already. Not sure why she did this...she does have a lot of lady friends there, maybe just to show the "put together" side of her.
> 
> Again, thank you for taking the time. I will read over these responses multiple times for sure.


How do you know she went to work. Sorry, it has to be asked.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

I'm flabbergasted reading people talking about the OP needs to be more attentive to his wife and give her what she needs, when even after being caught out she's still deleting messages and acting shady.

Welcome to 2018, where adults are treated like children.

OP you've done well to put your foot down but your problem with this "wife needs attention" thing is the possible AP is not the problem. You could move to the other end of the country there will just be more men, some who will have no compunction what so ever of escalating this to it's natural conclusion.

You wife has now opened herself up to the possibility of allowing another man into her life. You can run away from the problem and everything may be fine for a while but it takes one flirtation, one long stare, gradual friendship with a neighbour and you're back to square one.

Not coming out and putting the hammer down to end this. Why tip-toe around this? Be frank, be open, no tears to end the conversation from her. 

Your wife is entertaining thoughts..that's not a "speedbump" that's a car teetering over a cliff ledge about to fall into a chasm.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

The problem with not specifying some specific behavior or action as a consequence of her lies and making certain you follow through is it is all too easy to allow her to continue to lie. You did not detail that it was a huge problem, so she doesn't think about it, and it just continues.

Although as I said I was not able to get my wife to stop lying. I have read up a lot about lying. After years of psychiatric help my wife was diagnosed as a pathological liar, and she is not able to just come out and tell the truth. Every statement out of her mouth is always filtered through a series of thoughts about how I might think about what she says, and takes forever for her to get to. I over-reacted to her hesitations and lies, and for almost two years our lives together were pure hell, especially for her.

But I have studied lying behavior a lot, and I mean a lot, since then. 

There should be some action she must perform, or something she wants from you regularly which you will not do, and she must know it is a direct consequence of her telling you some specific lie. Because you lied to me about this concrete thing wife, this must be done, or not done. Adults are just older children, and we are always learning. She is learning she can lie to you, unless the consequences are tied directly to the lie.

You could picture it like making a child write on the blackboard hundreds of times "I will not lie" as a punishment. It may seem useless, but it is to reinforce the idea telling a lie is punished. Or, getting caught telling a lie is punished, anyway. 

I would suggest it not be some vague idea that sort of happens. But how do you punish a wife?

In my case I went way overboard.

You are the only one who knows what she wants from you which you can decide is something you would rather not bother with, and tell her you have decided to not do because she lied to you. Detail her lie to her. Don't let her wonder what you are talking about.

That's my suggestion, anyway. I've only read that it works. It did not work on my wife.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

sokillme said:


> How do you know she went to work. Sorry, it has to be asked.


She came home with the gift card and schedule. Immediately went online and checked, saw the charge for the gift card from her store. Saw the grocery bill, not that that matters, since I also saw the groceries when she got home.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

OutofRetirement said:


> What I find very disturbing:
> 
> 1. She deleted messages.
> 2. You actually saw her delete things right off your screen.
> ...


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

WilliamM said:


> The problem with not specifying some specific behavior or action as a consequence of her lies and making certain you follow through is it is all too easy to allow her to continue to lie. You did not detail that it was a huge problem, so she doesn't think about it, and it just continues.
> 
> Although as I said I was not able to get my wife to stop lying. I have read up a lot about lying. After years of psychiatric help my wife was diagnosed as a pathological liar, and she is not able to just come out and tell the truth. Every statement out of her mouth is always filtered through a series of thoughts about how I might think about what she says, and takes forever for her to get to. I over-reacted to her hesitations and lies, and for almost two years our lives together were pure hell, especially for her.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice, this is all new territory for me. As far as consequences, they would include being interrogated from here on out whenever she is gone. Also would include her giving me her phone and letting me pay to install a message recover app (suggestions for this?) and some type of monitor. 

Finally, I don't think I would tell her folks but I would make her tell a couple of her close female friends at church. This is again, if she only searches. At this point she believes I can somehow magically see her Facebook messages all the time. I suspect there won't be another text issue. That would be straight exposure, her folks, my folks, her friends and our pastor.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Everyone lies at some point. Everyone. So the fact your wife did isn't a big surprise. Disappointing, but hey, life happens. Perhaps you should ask her why she felt it was necessary to lie to you.

When I discovered my wife's first lies, and pulled that thread, it only got worse and worse, but there are very few people like my wife. Most people are just ordinary people who lie on occasion by choice because they just don't happen to want to bother with the inconvenience of truth at the moment. If they get brought up with some consequences they decide not to do it again.

Be well.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

WilliamM said:


> Everyone lies at some point. Everyone. So the fact your wife did isn't a big surprise. Disappointing, but hey, life happens. Perhaps you should ask her why she felt it was necessary to lie to you.
> 
> When I discovered my wife's first lies, and pulled that thread, it only got worse and worse, but there are very few people like my wife. Most people are just ordinary people who lie on occasion by choice because they just don't happen to want to bother with the inconvenience of truth at the moment. If they get brought up with some consequences they decide not to do it again.
> 
> Be well.




Thank you for sharing and using your own situation, painful as it was, to provide guidance. I had to really confront my own ingrained deceitfulness when this all started. I didn't want to be hypocritical. I came out on the other end, confident that I value our marriage above everything and that I am really making an effort to instill boundaries in my life. 

As far as the need to lie to me, I am going to have to do something, make her feel safe or just shock her, so she gives up what is truly going on in her head...what I suspect was an attraction that she was/is embarrassed to admit. Otherwise, it will be "I knew you would hassle me and I didn't want to get you mad" or whatever something to that affect. 

Which btw, she has guy friends from her past that she still occasionally (like once a year) keeps in touch with. Never any issue. No deleting of texts. Lets me read everything. Nothing in the texts at all wayward. No perceived change in her character/attitude/actions. I am not that controlling is all I am trying to point out.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Ccbob,
Many here have cogently demonstrated that this is no speed bump. In fact, your characterization of it as such points to your problem. You minimize the issue and don't want to confront it head on. Your wife did not set healthy boundaries. And she is susceptible of doing it again. I would suggest she is ripe for an affair. She has laid her cards on the table for you to see. I suggest you play poker too. Go all in and call her out.

The consequence of her lies is more required transparency on her part. You know she had the hots for this guy and you must point out how you know. The texts, lies, dressing up, and comments while she was drunk. Enumerate these to her in a conversation, and let her know that you believe she is headed for an affair--if not with this cowboy then with someone else down the road. All the classic signs are there that she is highly susceptible to an affair. Then let her know very clearly what boundaries you have. What will you do if this happens again? What will you do if she cheats? Be clear, dispassionate, and firm in this conversation. Stop being passive aggressive. Be clear and frank! Set your boundaries and mark your territory. I like sokillme's idea of reading some of trainwreck infidelity stories post here or on other marriage sites. I would also take your wife to Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice and together read all the links in the left sidebar under infidelity. 

It sounds you have been an attentive husband. Well, keep it up. I would suggest the two of you take a vacation by yourselves. Go on a cruise. Do something new that you have never done before. Extended time together will spice things up and would be good for both of you.

Are you willing to be proactive?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Maybe you should have her read "Not Just Friends" also. I think you need to sit her down, find out WHAT about this guy attracted her (age, looks, what exactly he did when talking to her that got to her), and ask her WHY she didn't protect the marriage -- crush is one thing, what she did was WAY beyond that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashcratebob said:


> I value our marriage above everything


Whatever you value above everything you become a slave to. I suggest you value doing the right thing above everything. There are times when doing the right thing means ending a marriage. Just keep that in mind.

Having proper boundaries is a good thing though, so good for you. I suggest you try to entreat her to talk to you, I would first you her love for you, it will let you know where you stand, but you must not get angry if she tells you she was attracted to this man. I don't think that is wrong we can't help it. It's her reaction. But I am not saying coddle her either, like @BobSimmons said frank adult conversation, but not a fight, where you get across the gravity of where you are. Your marriage is at one of the crossroads that marriage can face. How she handles it will tell where it goes. So far she hasn't handled it well, but it's not to late (assuming you have the full scoop). She needs to get that. 

Anyway in my mind you can go about this two ways, you can try to learn how as a team to talk about difficult things. Or you can try to scare her into talking. I would try the team method first. If what really went on but some inappropriate texts one way, then this could be something that shores up your relationship if her perspective changes. I just hope for both your sakes that is all that happened and she is mature enough to grow. Seems you have.

If that doesn't work then you are in some trouble at least in my mind and all methods are on the table.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

cashcratebob said:


> So I got pretty intense when I confronted. But there were no "consequences" specified, that is valid. Also, it was hard, I don't like putting my wife in that situation. No gas lighting or anger, just crying and freaking out on her part. Also, it is hard to detail, but she has made comments that she knows things are different now, she can tell. She asks me all the time if we are good. I am not cold or mean, but she definirlt set me back and she feels it. She is too embarrassed to say it out loud that she knows the problem (I suspect). Communication...


And yet she still searched for him months after you first confronted her.
Going to work dressed up could have been an excuse to get out and go somewhere else with only a token appearance at her actual
workplace. 

Also, her knowing something is off now may be partly paranoia and fear of more coming out.

I initially thought this was a simple one off but I too have strong doubts since she was still searching him out on the internet months after this all began. 

This reeks of the tip of the iceberg example./


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Deleting texts is common cheater behavior. Then they lie about it. Tell her that. She purposely deleted the texts to hide it from you. That means there was something to hide. That could have been anything from fear that there were so many her infatuation would be obvious or it was content she found necessary to hide and the lie about.
If she was texting on the phone you may be able to recover the texts with an app like DrFone. If she was only messaging on cat ebook and deleting them idk. You used to be able to get deleted messages on Facebook but I think the squirrels at Facebook changed it so you could not do that. 

Another thing you can do is look at the history of app purchases on her phone. Some cheaters use apps like WhatsApp designed for cheaters. If they think they will get caught they delete the app and reinstall it when they want to use it. 

People with nothing to hide, hide nothing. She believed she needed to hide things from you. Women don’t hide communications from one man if they think it would not bother their mate.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

There is nothing in Christian theology that requires, or even suggests, that you should be a doormat. In the Christian is encouraged to call out sin. In the words of the Book of Common Prayer, we have "...offended in thought, word, and deed...". Your wife has committed adultery in mind. And that is just as bad
as the physical act itself.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Hi cashcratebob
My opinion only, but when I was betrayed, I wish I had done this. We're divorced now. 

So. . . changing from using his name to the 'AF guy', deleting the convo 'before your very eyes', knowing you were very upset yet still searching for him - up to Christmas-family time!, uncharacteristic behaviours, the AF guy's wife being hostile (it's easy to detect attraction, hard as people might try to hide it).

There was 'something' going on.

Be sure to ask her about everything you described in your first post. You need answers & imo, you've been too easy on her.
You need the conversation, ASAP. You MUST be calm & firm. Write it all down & show it to her.
At least rehearse it.

Tell her:

she has one chance only to tell you the truth, answer your questions as above ie all the 'whys' & tell you what went on.
not to take you for a fool because you expect respect at the very minimum & therefore the truth.
that the trust has been broken, oxygen to a marriage & if she lies on top of the lies, she is putting your marriage on the line from your point of view and that it's that serious.

Also tell her

crying when you bring it up is an avoidance tactic. It won't work & it won't fix it.
any married person can get a crush. It's life. But if they take it beyond that, it puts their marriage at risk & the kids at risk of ending up in a broken home.

Finally, ask how she'd feel if you had done the same with a female colleague.

The problem isn't the length of an emotional affair or even one starting up as seems to be the case.
Once the secret communication eg texting starts, the line has been crossed, trust has been broken.

Tell her that it may take you a while to get past this (it will), but that you want to for both of you & your 4 kids. . . and it has to start with the truth which also must always be there going forward. 

I may sound tough but I'm sure you're desperately hurt. Your life & marriage have been upended - you joined TAM, you're watching her every move etc. Compare your life now to what it was like before this happened. So get tough and confront it now. Imo, it's the only way.

On the positive side, after the convo, when you lay your cards firmly on the table, I think she'll have more respect for you than she ever did.
You caught it early enough - by a hair's breadth! An EA is just as bad a PA. . . maybe even worse.

Another positive is that if you firmly show that you're not a pushover and demand respect for you & your marriage & won't accept this being swept under the carpet, it will be a wake-up call for her & I'm confident that she'll never do it again.


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## thedope (Jan 3, 2017)

I'm in the minority but I don't think he has the full story. I'm interested in what her reaction would be if he asked her to take a polygraph?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

thedope said:


> I'm in the minority but I don't think he has the full story. I'm interested in what her reaction would be if he asked her to take a polygraph?


No, your not in the minority, he does not have the true story from her and I don’t think he’s going to get it with his current approach. In my opinion, there is no physical affair, yet. The OM has been flirting with her to see if he can get into her pants and she is infatuated with him, flattered by his attention, and loving the excitement of the whole thing. The OM senses this in her, and keeps it going because he knows he’s going to get the prize sooner or later. It’s a good thing @cashcratebob sensed the change in her and reacted the way he did. Could he have reacted a little stronger? Yes, but I think he dodged a big bullet ... for now.

What he doesn’t know is what was going through her head while this was going on (and still going through her head, because she’s not over this guy). Why did she do what she did, and react the way she did with the OM. He won’t get those answers because he isn’t asking the questions he needs to ask, in a way that makes her think that he is serious about this. If he doesn’t do that, he’s never really going to know ... and he’s going to need to be a snoop for the foreseeable future.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

cashcratebob said:


> Thank you for the advice, this is all new territory for me. As far as consequences, they would include being interrogated from here on out whenever she is gone. Also would include her giving me her phone and letting me pay to install a message recover app (suggestions for this?) and some type of monitor.
> 
> Finally, I don't think I would tell her folks but I would make her tell a couple of her close female friends at church. This is again, if she only searches. At this point she believes I can somehow magically see her Facebook messages all the time. *I suspect there won't be another text issue. *That would be straight exposure, her folks, my folks, her friends and our *pastor*.


Because it just may go underground.

And I heard about some pastors...


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

I agree with those who posted that she is going to want to say goodbye to her friend at work. I'm interested to see how the goodbyes turn out. I think that could show you some inner truth.

I wonder what your wife thinks about the whole episode. "Darn, I wish I could have explored this further." "If another man turned my head like that, do I really love my husband as much as I thought?" Does she even think that another man turned her head? When she was searching for him, what was she thinking about? Of all the things she had to be occupied with in her life, homeschooling the kids, chores, all of that neverending things to do, what made her say let me look him up online as opposed to I have a few moments, let me read a book or watch TV or call my husband to chat or call my relative to say "hi"? And now with it in hindsight, what does she make of it all? Has she re-thought her previous feelings about the marriage and her loyalty?

These are the kinds of things that bother me in my own situation. People know the right words to say, and even how to say it, but I still wonder if that's the truth.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

Have you ever private-messaged someone online and kept it from your partner?

According to an Australian psychologist, a range of actions, including having a secret online conversation and leaving heart emojis on a friend's Facebook post, might be seen as micro-cheating.

Melanie Schilling told Huffington Post Australia that it comes down to *"seemingly small actions that indicate a person is emotionally or physically focused on someone outside their relationship".*

Further examples she gave include saving someone in your phone contacts under a different name, reaching out to an ex-partner to mark a significant event, and sharing private jokes.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

OutofRetirement said:


> Have you ever private-messaged someone online and kept it from your partner?
> 
> According to an Australian psychologist, a range of actions, including having a secret online conversation and leaving heart emojis on a friend's Facebook post, might be seen as micro-cheating.
> 
> ...


No not at all. I am not above finding another woman attractive but I make it a point, especially over the last few years to not do anything with the purpose of escalation. Too many stories of it that hit closer to home, it scares me, what could happen. I don't flirt, I don't jest in a manner that could be flirting.

I'm very purposeful on the things I like on Facebook as well. Basically, won't like something from a women that doesn't have a lot of likes already.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

OP Sounds like you guard your heart as you should. Your wife probably would not cheat but it seems that she let her eyes and mind stray which you know leads to infatuation. 
The may be a little controversial, but you mentioned you’re a Christian, too, so I will tell you what works for my marriage. As a Christian husband, I’d suggest working on your role as husband and head of the marriage. Try googling some suggestions on getting your Christian wife to be submissive or more submissive, and lead her into it without outright telling her. When you’re doing your part she should fall right into hers. It’s more about you than her when it comes to submission. It’ll be like second nature for her to follow and submit when you lead and take charge. When she is more submissive she will fear God and her husband, and she would be more likely to guard her thoughts. 
We all need help being better spouses, there are no perfect people or couples, luckily this little speed bump is just that, but use it is as a catalyst to improve your self and your marriage. Good luck.


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## toucheturtle (Nov 12, 2017)

I don't like to use the word Christian in anything anymore.it seems everything passes for that and it's disturbing. I call myself a believer cause it requires action to live for the cause.my ex was raised in a very fundamental home and never had any morals or values.i got a vacetemey in 1999 and thought we were finished with having children.she started to wise up to ways of the world after that with a new job and life.we became distant and several years later yep the affair. I would of done things different with what I know now.i stayed cause I was dumb and for my children also who were very young.i heard on these forums if it walks like a duck,if it quacks like a duck it's a duck.i hope you take the advice here cause it's a duck


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

JayDee7 said:


> OP Sounds like you guard your heart as you should. Your wife probably would not cheat but it seems that she let her eyes and mind stray which you know leads to infatuation.
> The may be a little controversial, but you mentioned you’re a Christian, too, so I will tell you what works for my marriage. As a Christian husband, I’d suggest working on your role as husband and head of the marriage. Try googling some suggestions on getting your Christian wife to be submissive or more submissive, and lead her into it without outright telling her. When you’re doing your part she should fall right into hers. It’s more about you than her when it comes to submission. It’ll be like second nature for her to follow and submit when you lead and take charge. When she is more submissive she will fear God and her husband, and she would be more likely to guard her thoughts.
> We all need help being better spouses, there are no perfect people or couples, luckily this little speed bump is just that, but use it is as a catalyst to improve your self and your marriage. Good luck.


I think we are right in line JayDee7. I take my role as husband and father in context of my faith very seriously. I simply did not have in my "toolkit" the ability to deal with this situation properly, as many have pointed out. I will do better in the future. 

As it stands now, I simply do not have the right "motivation" to address this at this moment. I need her to do something again. I know that most TAMers are going to wreck me for this. W/o her doing something again, I just don't think I will come off strong enough at this point, and not simply look insecure and obsessed (know thyself). I need to have the immediate/tactical advantage of having something to point to. The Dec 23rd search included multiple folks from work, guys and girls. It has been a month. I will concede I should have been more decisive/straighforward/thorough. I will take everyone's advice if/when something happens again.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

toucheturtle said:


> I don't like to use the word Christian in anything anymore.it seems everything passes for that and it's disturbing. I call myself a believer cause it requires action to live for the cause.my ex was raised in a very fundamental home and never had any morals or values.i got a vacetemey in 1999 and thought we were finished with having children.she started to wise up to ways of the world after that with a new job and life.we became distant and several years later yep the affair. I would of done things different with what I know now.i stayed cause I was dumb and for my children also who were very young.i heard on these forums if it walks like a duck,if it quacks like a duck it's a duck.i hope you take the advice here cause it's a duck


Touchturtle, I am sorry for what you went through. My wife has, up until this point, displayed high morals and values, I simply can't look back on anything in the past to show otherwise. Her folks are good people, who taught her right from wrong. 

She has done things that are off, more than off. That being said, there are quite a few folks on here who seem support the notion that she simply had a crush/attraction that caused her to change her actions. That I caught it and likely nipped it. Others take a more pessimistic and intense view. I value both sides. 

I'll post more if I get something else.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashcratebob said:


> I think we are right in line JayDee7. I take my role as husband and father in context of my faith very seriously. I simply did not have in my "toolkit" the ability to deal with this situation properly, as many have pointed out. I will do better in the future.
> 
> As it stands now, I simply do not have the right "motivation" to address this at this moment. I need her to do something again. I know that most TAMers are going to wreck me for this. W/o her doing something again, I just don't think I will come off strong enough at this point, and not simply look insecure and obsessed (know thyself). I need to have the immediate/tactical advantage of having something to point to. The Dec 23rd search included multiple folks from work, guys and girls. It has been a month. I will concede I should have been more decisive/straighforward/thorough. I will take everyone's advice if/when something happens again.


You want motivation. Protect your kids. That is your job. If you can't do it for you do it for your children. You need to be a leader in your family, that is our role. Get strong for your kids. Put your fears to the side and lead your family. Meaning hard talks. Being indecisive is unattractive anyway. Your wife wants you to fight for your family. 

What is her faith? If she has it use that and do it matter of factly. "Wife you should tell me the truth because you know God will show me to protect the family. He is not going to let me live a lie for too long." That is a good one to use. You don't need to be emotional about it. If you can't do that then go to marriage counseling.


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## MenDontCry (Feb 15, 2018)

Ex military here (got out at 10 years). Been a gov't contractor for 6 years now. I just went through a similar situation as you but I didn't catch it in time. What started as an innocent office attraction turned into a full fledged 6 month long affair with her boss. I wish I had been as vigilant as you sir. I saw the signs just as you did but I convinced myself that my wife and my marriage were impervious to an affair. In any case, you have received some great advice here. IMO confronting the OM is a great strategy. Men are territorial and he needs to understand that he is sniffing on a tree in someone else's yard. If he decides to piss on it there will be consequences. Definitely don't threaten him but let him know that you are onto his shenanigans. Next on the list (and this is where I failed). Give your wife the attention that she is desperately needing. When my wife's affair happened she was in a similar situation as yours. She hadn't worked in a long while (college, then deployments & babies) etc. We decided that she would go back to work when our youngest started pre-k. In any case, I'm definitely not blaming myself for my wife's poor decision making but I wish I had responded to her calls for attention before she reached out elsewhere. You are in a position to maybe give up an evening of golf, one day a week at the gym, a night of poker with the guys, etc... It doesn't really matter but I'd be sure that she knows you love her and that you are doing whatever you can to make her happy. Speaking from experience, there's no way that a long-standing relationship can match the excitement and passion that an affair brings but if you are demanding of her attention, and you are giving her tons of love and affection then it will never get that far. I gave the advice that I gave because it doesn't sound like you are in a loveless marriage. Just sounds like you guys might be going through the motions and the time demands of family and military life might have left your wife more susceptible to outside influences than she knows. I can tell you with near certainty, up until the time that it happened, my wife never thought she was "the type" who would have an affair either.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

High school sweethearts
Christian
Military
Stay-at-home mom
Starts job or school with younger people
Starts acting like different person
Angrily denies wrongdoing

If you only knew how many times I've heard this combination of factors. It's insane. The next step is usually not a good one.

Your wife has been exposed as a person with very few boundaries. She did well in the confines of your marriage up to this point... but as soon as she was let out of the cage for a bit, she came back a new woman... and not in a good way. She's just not a mature person.

You have a lot of work ahead of you. It ain't gonna be pretty. She got a taste of the other life. Watch her like a hawk.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

So I wanted to provide an update...I figured I owed anyone who provide feedback that much. 

Wife quite her job the end of January. No goodbye to the guy, her last day of work wasn't known by everyone; she ended up calling in her scheduled last day due to sickness. Things were/are good. We had a long discussion regarding infidelity spurred on by the woman I mentioned in my initial post. I was talking at her without talking at her basically. I think what made her realize how serious I was, she saw I was looking up some of the books that you all suggested I read. They popped up on her suggested items on Amazon. I think she realized even more how I saw this entire situation. 

No minimizing comments from her. Things were good. But it would be dishonest to say I wasn't still bothered and still felt that I hadn't said everything I needed to say and gotten the feedback from her that I needed. I hadn't confronted her the way I should have. I was still snooping her phone, still checking her Facebook, and still monitoring the keylogger. 

Thankfully, the Lord provides...

Last Saturday we were getting ready to have a couple over from church. We were playing around and flirting. I don't remember what exactly was said (something to the effect that if I didn't think she was good looking that someone else does...it was all playful), but we got on the subject of her working at the sporting goods store and she made the comment that someone there thought she was good looking, that she knew that some guys had checked her out. I don't remember what I said next or she...the crux was that a guy at work said that he wished she wasn't married. She said the guys name, it was not the same guy (of course) but it was someone she was ok with talking about before. 

Sooooo...I was livid. And I think she knew almost instantly that she had made a mistake. Hopefully you all understand, it isn't the comment to my wife...although that bothers me...the issue is she didn't tell me!! She didn't tell me that a guy had made a pass at her, until months later. In the category of things that must be shared with the husband, someone making a pass at her is at the top of that list!

Not wanting to ruin the evening...I couldn't hide my anger, but I tried. I said you not telling me is why we had the whole issue before, you keeping things from me. But I said whatever its done. IT WASN'T DONE. But I put on a smile, we had a good night. The friends went home, it was late, I kind of cold shouldered her. The next day was church, I was a little stand offish as I am mulling over what to say to her and making sure I got it right. In church she writes a note to me, asking what is wrong. I say we will talk at home. Instant sadness in her face. 

We get home, I handle some business, the kids are outside. She is upstairs and I go in and ask her if she is ready to talk. She says ok. 

I start off by telling her I love her. I ask her if she feels or perceives that I hide stuff from her, regarding the relationships (work) I have with females. Does she ever perceive I am keeping stuff from her? She says no (she is already tearing up hard because I am pretty stern right now). I said I feel like you keep stuff from me. I feel like when you tell me 4 months later that some guy made a pass at you that you are keeping stuff from me. 

Then I go more intense and say in light of all the crap back in October, how do I not add this to that?? How do I no wonder what and how much you are talking with these guys at work and what about?? How?? No answer except I am sorry, she is hysterical. I mention there was more that I perceived from the stuff back in October that I never shared because I felt like she had moved to make things right, but now I feel I need to address it and embarrass her further, but I won't allow these feelings to poison our relationship. I tell her that right now I live in this reality that my wife is willing to hide stuff from me...how can I operate in this marriage if you are going to purposefully hide stuff from me? (she is hysterical). I told her point blank that you will not keep this type of stuff from me...for your hearts sake, for our marriage's sake, you cannot keep from me when someone is flirting with you. Because I must be able to hold you accountable and protect your heart just as you would mine and I have made it clear that you can. 

She responds that it meant nothing to her and that because of October, she was afraid. I said being afraid is valid based of my first reaction, but we could have dealt with it and certainly my response would be far better had you told me that day, rather than 4 months later. But ya, I would have questioned you regarding this guy and you should be ok with that in light of the crap that went down. I try to make it clear to her that it isn't the comment or the guy, it is the fact she chose once again to keep things from me. More crying...hysteria. 

She is saying she is sorry. She is sorry she hurt me, sorry to make me feel this way. She loves me and only me. 

I can tell that she is deeply hurt as well. Through her eyes, this crap keeps coming back up. She is trying to be a loving Christian wife and this one little incident is haunting her....I get it. I told her that. I told her that because I love her I wasn't going to let this pass. Because I love her I was going to make it clear what my expectations are for her and us. For the sake of our family, I could not let her think this was ok. I know it is in the past and that things are great now...but you have to know that if/when you work again what the expectations are. You have to know too, that affairs start this way! It seems innocent enough but then one day it turns not so innocent. I will not allow the cultivation of that poison in our relationship!

To end it on a slight positive note, I told her I need her to stop being so naïve and believing that lots of guys wouldn't be attracted to her. I said don't be so vain, just be aware of how men operate. Stop thinking it isn't a reality with you, this whole incident proves it! Plus you are great looking to me...why wouldn't someone else find you attractive? 

There was more, but we made up. I held her for awhile while she cried. Told her that I was done with this. We would move on and I would not mention anything again. I said what I needed to say to her. 

She was sad for a few hours, by that night though we were good, like she was cuddly, kind, and loving. I take this as sign that she knew I was right but also trusted that I believed she was sorry and had forgave her.

WE are totally good now. The last few days have been as good as ever and I don't sense any animosity from her or resentment stemming from her not believing she was culpable.

Thank you all for the advice you provided. Reading other posts provided more advice to help me be a better husband. Not only the husband she wants but I think the husband she needs.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@cashcratebob ,
Did she get a job somewhere else? 
Sounds like you handled everything pretty well. I'd still be vigilant, and keep an eye on things if I was you.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Here is the problem with this whole thread...

She was entertaining the attention, enjoying the attention, ATTRACTING THE ATTENTION.

Nothing in your thread says the she really understand what she has REALLY done. She has had no consequences, and except for you being pissed off, nothing else. 

Here is what you need to know: 1) she was having an emotional affair with the guy at work. 2) it probably did not go physical but, 3) she really liked the attention. 

All of those things are a problem, and they still are. Now her smart A**** comment, in my presents, would have resulted in me packing her bags, right that second. 

You think that is over reacting???? Nope, in fact that is exactly what you should have done. 

You see, yeah, you go to church---- big deal. Christen women and men have affairs every day. 

What you need to realize is that you guys need therapy and you need to be honest about what you know. You need to tell her that he emotional affair, and that is what it was, was so far out of line that you are considering divorce. 

You have to take this on in a overt not a covert manner. And she needs to be scared that you will leave her.

That comment was not a speed bump, it was a warning to you, and it should be something that makes you take more direct action.

She is primed for an affair, so if she does not change her mind set, it is going to happen. 

Is this registering with you???


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

I have an uneasy feeling about this one. This whole naiveté excuse/reasoning (on her part) will nearly guarantee more problems.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

I think the one of the important deciding questions, is did your W lose attraction to you and did your sex life suffer a reduction or unexplained changes.


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## Dawghoused (Mar 24, 2018)

I think she had a crush on that guy and attracted to him. Probably, that guy is also interested in her. You should talk to your wife and convenience her to leave the job at that place.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

Dawghoused. She already quit the job. "Wife quite her job the end of January."

*cashcratebob:*

You have done a great job so far. You are correct, "Trust but Verify!"

However, through the years, you will get complacent. Beware.

1. I would get in touch with the Cowboy's wife and find out why she was angry at your wife. Your wife's reaction was that of a she-wolf defending her territory. Red Flag!

2. Dressing up to go shopping. Red Flag!

3. Enjoying the attention and validation of other men. Red Flag!

4. Changing calling Cowboy "Air Force Guy". Red Flag!

5. Facebook searches and google searches (even after being confronted). Red Flag!

6. Acting hysterical (over reaction to avoid conflict) whenever accused. Red Flag!

7. Not listing Cowboy's name when asked who worked on Tuesday Night. Red Flag!

8. Deleting conversations with Cowboy. Red Flag!

9. Yes. You are aware of these. You have responded with courage, strength, and decisiveness in all cases. Excellent!

10. I would do marriage counciling on a regular basis. Beware the underground affair. She has learned that you are vigilant. However, she does seem immature. You are the adult in this relationship. She still remains the chastened teenage daughter. Till the next time. *Trust but verify.* Good luck!


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> @cashcratebob ,
> Did she get a job somewhere else?
> Sounds like you handled everything pretty well. I'd still be vigilant, and keep an eye on things if I was you.


 @Rubix Cubed she is no longer working; we are preparing for a military relocation in here in the next few months, back in January we expected to leave by the end of May. She took the job originally to make up some money from a few out of nowhere home issues. She reached our goal in December and by January was only working two nights a week before quitting.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> I have an uneasy feeling about this one. This whole naiveté excuse/reasoning (on her part) will nearly guarantee more problems.


yes I agree that it is something she needs to understand more. It will be something I keep eye on and address. She doesn't have self-esteem issues by any means but she certainly doesn't have the right view of herself when she goes into environments like that kind of work environment. Nor does she really understand how men think in this context as well, which I have tried to explain to her. She is starting to get it I think.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Here is the problem with this whole thread...
> 
> She was entertaining the attention, enjoying the attention, ATTRACTING THE ATTENTION.
> 
> ...



Consequences came up, I told her that if something like this happens again that I would tell her folks and mine, as well as our pastor. I was trying to get in my post yesterday before heading out from work and missed some stuff. 

The conversation on Sunday, she was scared man. Like really scared. I wasn't being too loud but I was very direct in all that I said. Her "smart @$$ comment" in the context of how it went down, was more playful and flirtatious. Obviously that is going to be hard to convey in a forum post. I didn't take it as smart @$$, I took it as her being comfortable with me but not realizing that it would set me off. 

I think she has changed her mind set but I will stay vigilant.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

TAMAT said:


> I think the one of the important deciding questions, is did your W lose attraction to you and did your sex life suffer a reduction or unexplained changes.


No not at all, the only reduction was on me back in October. Because of the situation I was having a hard time in that arena. We still were intimate about two times a week though. 

Before it was 2-3 times a week. Now it is 3-4 since the end of April (stressors gone like dealing with a home sale and my job stressors diminished since my replacements are all here).


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

cashcratebob said:


> @Rubix Cubed she is no longer working; we are preparing for a military relocation in here in the next few months, back in January we expected to leave by the end of May. She took the job originally to make up some money from a few out of nowhere home issues. She reached our goal in December and by January was only working two nights a week before quitting.


Buddy I’m not trying to offend you here but where I come from there is a saying.”She has her tail in the air”.
Your wife is seeking validation from other men and this drip feed of information from her is what should concern you.She tells you something,you get mad then you forgive her and move on.Rince and repeat.
I think she has been testing the water both with other men and also with you by seeing how far she can push you.
So far it seems you can be pushed around without any consequences other than meaningless threats which you don’t seem willing to go through with anyway.
You are in the military you should know what brinkmanship means.
I really hope that you are never deployed because she is not a woman that could be trusted on her own.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

skerzoid said:


> Dawghoused. She already quit the job. "Wife quite her job the end of January."
> 
> *cashcratebob:*
> 
> ...



Thank you. I think the hysteria comes from a lack of maturity in this area of our interaction. I also think that there is certain immaturity (or lack of experience) when it comes to being apart of a work environment, especially one like at a sporting goods store. But I will add that she is a good mom, home schools the kids well, and maintains a very good home. In all other aspects she would seem well adjusted and mature. 

I will continue to be vigilant. Certainly when she does enter the workforce again, if and when that happens. We've entered a financially good season of life so that may not happen for a while.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

I believe your wife may have not told you about the original guy and the new guy because she (1) enjoyed the validation and (2) she wanted to continue working there. And (3) there may be more, but now she doesn't want the hassle/stress of telling you about it.

The deleting messages really is the big deal still. That shows active attempts to deceive. It is commission rather than an omission. Then after that, doubt invades your thoughts.

As far as her hysterical crying, my experience is that is a bad sign. It happens a lot when people get caught.

As far as an adult woman being naive about guys who hit on her, I have to assume she watched TV and movies and has seen guys hit on girls with her own eyes, and have heard about it from other men and women, like the woman in your church who had an affair.

It's a problem if you treat her as less than an adult and excuse her due to inexperience. She knows well what is right and wrong. The deleting texts was wrong. The not telling you that a guy hit on her, for some this might not be wrong, but I think the two of you both had the same values that it was wrong.

She is a moral woman, but she is not perfect. Her lack of perfection, like yours and mine, are her own failings. But not due to lack of experience with men or naivete. It is a temptation to decieve to get what she wanted. Which may have been that she wanted the feelings she had of being attractive to the world (as opposed to not just you).


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You both need to read the book NOT JUST FRIENDS by Shirley Glass. It’s the definitive work on this issue. You also need to get the book LOVE MUST BE TOUGH I can’t recall the author’s name but he is a well known pastor.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

For me, your W sees your validation of her is what a H is supposed to do and it is meaningless after time. The "I love you." is meaningless over time because you are my H and you are supposed to say those things. Everything you say, terms of endearment, etc is something you as a H is supposed to do. It is hollow as as result. When attention from another guy is received, it is now a true validation because this person is not her husband and it must be true as this person is not "required" to say these things/flirt as a result. 

I can't tell you how irked I get when I hear, "You are supposed to say those things because your are my H." Is you W in that train of thought? I'm believing she is.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

skerzoid said:


> Dawghoused. She already quit the job. "Wife quite her job the end of January."
> 
> *cashcratebob:*
> 
> ...



I too would stress the trust but verify. You will get comfortable at some point and stop. If in the future you start to feel even slightly that something seems "off" but you cant put your finger on it start up the vigilance with full force. I had an EA that turned PA with a coworker many years ago. Back then it was writing notes instead of texting.... It amounts to the same thing- building an intimacy through a friendship that then catches fire. I was immature and selfish. I wanted validation from someone other than my H and enjoyed all the excitement of a newly interested man.

Years later
- my H started to seem "off" and I checked his texts after I asked him to come home and deal with an issue with our daughter. He came home -but 2 hours later than expected. I checked his texts and a coworker female had been texting him asking him to meet her and the rest of the work crew at a bar for drinks. He did. Turns out the rest of the crew wasnt there just her and a drunken girlfriend. That was the beginning of their friendship.....

-later there were deleted texts and call logs- all denied or excused...there were several visits to her house to "help" her fix things - he denied even knowing where she lived until I threatened to poly or ask his workmates

-he also got hysterical when I accused him of having an emotional connection to her- he yelled and swore and stomped up to our bedroom slamming the door at my nerve. I later found out that he went upstairs and texted
her saying he wouldnt be going to work the next day- he deleted his side of the conversation but forgot to delete hers. 

We ended up fighting for our marriage but it took a long time. we went to marriage counselling and individual counselling. I threatened divorce = I kicked him out of the bedroom... it was a long haul. We are in R . It is good. 

We understand each others needs and try to meet them. -
This was something neither of us had a clue how to do before. Please dont assume that you understand each others needs. Read the book "his needs her needs" together- get communication going through MC. I still trust and verify when I feel the anxiety. I told him he is welcome to VAR me, GPS me whatever it takes for him to feel comfortable. He is fine now as my A was 25 years ago. Your wife should feel comfortable offering the same. 

Those who have nothing to hide hide nothing.

Good luck. She seems worth it.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

OutofRetirement said:


> I believe your wife may have not told you about the original guy and the new guy because she (1) enjoyed the validation and (2) she wanted to continue working there. And (3) there may be more, but now she doesn't want the hassle/stress of telling you about it.
> 
> The deleting messages really is the big deal still. That shows active attempts to deceive. It is commission rather than an omission. Then after that, doubt invades your thoughts.
> 
> ...


Always good to get outofretirement to come out of retirement for your post...

So a lot of what you say may well be spot on. For example, she did make comments in the past that she wanted to quite because of my questioning...all though she would also say she missed the kids and did not like being away from home. At times I feel it was just a defense response to my questioning. The hysterical crying, yes, probably some truth there. I think the attractive to the world part may be right...I think she was not as willful in her deception here but was more caught up in it if that makes sense? I think she is naïve (or low self image), just based on other unrelated conversations, as to how men might actually see her and might be attracted to her.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> For me, your W sees your validation of her is what a H is supposed to do and it is meaningless after time. The "I love you." is meaningless over time because you are my H and you are supposed to say those things. Everything you say, terms of endearment, etc is something you as a H is supposed to do. It is hollow as as result. When attention from another guy is received, it is now a true validation because this person is not her husband and it must be true as this person is not "required" to say these things/flirt as a result.
> 
> I can't tell you how irked I get when I hear, "You are supposed to say those things because your are my H." Is you W in that train of thought? I'm believing she is.


I don't know is she is but maybe...I have at times been noticed that she doesn't seem to believe me when I tell her how I see her. Or that she is doing things from an image perspective that really are not motivated based on how I see her. 

She doesn't need to have all motivation come from me, but there have at times and not related to any of these incidents, been moments where it is apparent that my opinion isn't as valued as much as how she might want to be perceived by others. This has always been related to how she perceives herself in light of other women. This also isn't an all the time or constant thing. Comes up more when she feels she has maybe gained a few pounds or whatever.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

NJ2 said:


> I too would stress the trust but verify. You will get comfortable at some point and stop. If in the future you start to feel even slightly that something seems "off" but you cant put your finger on it start up the vigilance with full force. I had an EA that turned PA with a coworker many years ago. Back then it was writing notes instead of texting.... It amounts to the same thing- building an intimacy through a friendship that then catches fire. I was immature and selfish. I wanted validation from someone other than my H and enjoyed all the excitement of a newly interested man.
> 
> Years later
> - my H started to seem "off" and I checked his texts after I asked him to come home and deal with an issue with our daughter. He came home -but 2 hours later than expected. I checked his texts and a coworker female had been texting him asking him to meet her and the rest of the work crew at a bar for drinks. He did. Turns out the rest of the crew wasnt there just her and a drunken girlfriend. That was the beginning of their friendship.....
> ...


Thank you for sharing; I will take it as encouragement to continue to be vigilant, open, honest, and direct in my communication.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

cashcratebob said:


> I don't know is she is but maybe...I have at times been noticed that she doesn't seem to believe me when I tell her how I see her. Or that she is doing things from an image perspective that really are not motivated based on how I see her.
> 
> She doesn't need to have all motivation come from me, but there have at times and not related to any of these incidents, been moments where it is apparent that my opinion isn't as valued as much as how she might want to be perceived by others. This has always been related to how she perceives herself in light of other women. This also isn't an all the time or constant thing. Comes up more when she feels she has maybe gained a few pounds or whatever.


I too will get from time to time the disbelief that what I say(terms of endearment) are not truth and simply said because as a H "I'm supposed to say those things." It has no value. But from others it some how does have value. I have driven the point home with my W that these things I say is because I mean it. It is truth. My W to, like yours, has some self-esteem issues with weight. My W weight retained after childbirth has never bothered me and I have never said anything derogatory. 

Next time you say to your W, "I love you." continue the thought with exactly why you love your W. I bet you will see a different more positive reaction. Let your W know you say these things because you mean it.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

cashcratebob said:


> So a lot of what you say may well be spot on. For example, she did make comments in the past that she wanted to quite because of my questioning...all though she would also say she missed the kids and did not like being away from home. At times I feel it was just a defense response to my questioning. The hysterical crying, yes, probably some truth there. I think the attractive to the world part may be right...I think she was not as willful in her deception here but was more caught up in it if that makes sense? I think she is naïve (or low self image), just based on other unrelated conversations, as to how men might actually see her and might be attracted to her.


I think I forgot to mention this point that OOR mentioned. 

This may be the biggest problem of all. I get from some of her comments that she ACTUALLY believes that she did nothing wrong. 

And if she is not just gas lighting you, meaning that she actually had an affair, then the fact that her comment the other day and this general attitude is just a huge red flag for things to come. 

Let's say that everything is as you think it is, you really have no proof except her word, and you really cannot trust that. Plus the deleted messages which are another huge red flag. 

But, let's just say that there was no actual affair. 

If she has this attitude, including the comment from the other day, then what happens when a really hot guy gets her juices flowing and she goes further, when you are out training or god forbid deployed. 

What happens then... That is what I worry about.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Have you ever thought about telling her to schedule a polygraph for herself?


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Would you really trust her if you were deployed for the next 10 months?


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I think I forgot to mention this point that OOR mentioned.
> 
> This may be the biggest problem of all. I get from some of her comments that she ACTUALLY believes that she did nothing wrong.
> 
> ...


I understand how you might perceive it that way, doing nothing wrong. She based on conversations we are having right now, knows she did wrong by not being open and honest with me. She has admitted that she understands now how I might not trust her in these environments. Note I didn't say (she) that I shouldn't. I think she sees the trail of her actions and is having the "A-hA" moment so to speak. 

She did not have a PA; I also think calling it an EA, while it may be good for me to spur me to action and make me focus, is a little rash considering what I am have seen on TAM, what constitutes an EA. I monitored her social media; email; key logger on the computer; made announced visits to her work and many more unannounced and never caught her doing anything other than working and every time she was only happy to see us and never seemed nervous or off guard. She always went to work at the same time, and came home at the same time. No odd actions after coming home (no shower use immediately or anything like that). I checked her purse many times to make sure she wasn't stowing anything extra with her (clothes, lots of makeup) Plus again, I am here because her actions were only slightly off and I still caught them; I just don't think she would have been capable of hiding it at all. Most women aren't which is why many guys find their way here, right? The whole gut instinct thing...IT isn't the old "my wife isn't capable or would never do that..." It's really that she isn't good enough/sharp enough to do it.

As to your last question, I would ask, what do you think I should do? I mean I have changed my view of my wife; I see her as capable of all of this (capable in the sense that we all are, where as before I saw her as "above" this sort of stuff). I will remain vigilant and will be more direct in my observations/communication with her. The next time something like this happens the consequences will be exposure to all family and she knows that.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Kamstel said:


> Would you really trust her if you were deployed for the next 10 months?


No polygraph. I'm not there and she is being open with me right now. Just trying to cultivate that open direct communication. The reality is at this point I don't need confirmation, I believe others have hit it on the head; she liked being attractive to others, she liked the attention; she was a little enamored with being out of the house and working. I don't need a polygraph to tell me that. 

I am going to communicate with her based on those truths from here on out and try to get her to see them for herself. So that we can grow and press on with that knowledge and create better boundaries. 

Would I trust her if I had to leave for ten months...now? Yes. Last October or November, nope. Now it would be clear about my expectations and what would happen if even a hint of something didn't seem right. I left for 5 weeks from March to April; zero incidents or issues; no funny texting or Facebook searches or anything like that. I talked to my son, no odd on goings at the house or anything. She wasn't working. 5 weeks is not ten months...I know that. But it did build my confidence in her. She even mentioned on one occasion how some guy at the church was paying her more attention and it was starting to bother her. She told me and I told her to tell her best girlfriend; so that someone knew at the church and could watch.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

cashcratebob said:


> As to your last question, I would ask, what do you think I should do? I mean I have changed my view of my wife; I see her as capable of all of this (capable in the sense that we all are, where as before I saw her as "above" this sort of stuff). I will remain vigilant and will be more direct in my observations/communication with her. The next time something like this happens the consequences will be exposure to all family and she knows that.


I guess I answer it this way. I you had to deploy you just could not watch her. And frankly, you and everyone here know that she really likes the validation of other men. 

So, that gives me pause to say that least. What if the next guy is better looking and way smoother than the AF guys or one of the other ones. What if? 

See, I am surprised that more people here have not said, "if you have to watch her like a hawk, then why stay married". Now, in our case I don't necessarily think she crosses the physical line, but she damn sure crossed a line some where. 

So what if you deploy and it happens to be at a time that you guys are not getting along great. And Mr. Tall Dark And Handsome puts a move on her? 

See, for me in your situation, I don't the feeling that she really "GETS IT", on the same that you get it. 

So that is what concerns me in general with what you have described about her.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I guess I answer it this way. I you had to deploy you just could not watch her. And frankly, you and everyone here know that she really likes the validation of other men.
> 
> So, that gives me pause to say that least. What if the next guy is better looking and way smoother than the AF guys or one of the other ones. What if?
> 
> ...


I understand, thanks for taking the time for sure. I guess it is the perspective of being in the situation and seeing her reactions and knowing her that makes it easier to take a more optimistic view. If/when I ever deploy, I will definitly look at our circumstances and make a risk assessment based on that of what I need to address. Of course, it goes without saying that I will be very direct regardless, but certainly if there is more opportunity in circumstances for her, I will be direct. Plus, I got two boys who I can have keeping an eye on things, even if they don't know that is what they are doing for me. 

Every reaction has been, none of communications meant anything; I can share our email traffic tomorrow when I get back to work. It was encouraging for me. I think she gets it. I see the sadness in her eyes, I think she is really upset that she has created this situation when she wants nothing more to be a loving faithful and open wife. She knows she made a mistake by keeping anything from me. She has not admitted any attraction, quite the opposite. Do you recommend I point blank as her? I said in our discussion on Sunday...that it makes me think you like the attention or are attracted to these guys and like this sort of interaction...vehement denial. 

But no, I am not entertaining the idea of divorce. I believe I am far from that. I have learned though that I am not the one that needs to be held accountable...or rather we are both equally in need of accountability and boundaries. She understands that she needs to be forthright and candid with her interactions with guys. I think most folks on TAM probably watch their spouses anyways...

At this point, it really isn't difficult to "watch her like a hawk" so to speak. It isn't obsessive as it was in the beginning it just is the status quo. Some would say why live that way...at this point I say it is necessary. Infidelity just seems rampant...I mean within my church, someone who I would have "measured my faith by" committed it and is living in it. It scares me and for the sake of my family...I do not mind being a little more on guard. I think I've gotten pretty decent at doing it in such a way as to not come off as insecure. Because honestly, I'm not. I am ready to blow the next mistake up...without hesitation. Full exposure of the slightest thing to our family.


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