# Wife has Toxic Friend, Who is also Sister In Law



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

Ready to hear something ****ed up 

Been married for 6 years in Jan and together for 10 years total.

here is some background

My wife and I lived in MA for the majority of our lives and our relationship. She was very depressed living up there because she had 0 friends and spent the majority of her time caring after 3 kids and we had our share of relationship problems. She wanted to move down to GA to be closer to her brother and parents so me just wanting her to be happy, we finally made the move and I moved away from everyone and everything I have ever known for her well being.

When we got down here my wife and sister in law (her bros wife) started to become very tight, to the point they started calling each other sisters and a Matching tattoos to express it but here is the problem. My sister in law is a toxic person, she is a serial cheater who actively seeks out other guys and I've known this for years about her and I probably could have nipped this in the bud when we first got down here but i didnt because she was so miserable not having any friends and she was much happier having one that I didnt want to end it for her and just have her resent me for it. I was secure enough at the time that the idea of my wife cheating on me wasnt even a consdieration because for aslong as I have known her (10 years) she was someone who was very against cheating.

This "friend" has tried to sleep with me MANY times and I have told my wife and my wife as far as I know, has never said anything to her about it. This "friend" has gone out on girl night outs with my wife and has openly tried to get with other men right in front of her (Mind you, this is her husbands sister!) and as far as I know, my wife has never said anything to her. She has tried to convince my wife on numerous occasions to get her own "boy toy" and my wife told me she has told her to stop doing that. My wife did tell me everything that went on, that was the only reason why my trust in her remained intact but During one of her friends attempts to seduce me, she made a comment "that she doesnt believe that we are meant to sleep with just one person for the rest of our lives".... about 2 weeks later while my wife was in a drunken stupor she said the samething to me WORD for WORD. This happened about a year ago and recently we got in a pretty big fight and made a comment "ive never cheated on you but now Im thinking that I should, Its not like I dont get opportunities" so now I know its something that goes through her mind.

They are both stay at home moms and Gym buddies, The spend everyday together at the gym while the children are at school and have made 2 other friends (who are married as well) that they workout with on a daily basis. Ive gone 9 years without ever snooping on my wifes phone but felt the urge to keep tabs recently for obvious reasons ( i know its technically wrong) and discovered a text between her and one of these other girls where they were talking about a guy at the gym (based on the context of the conversation it, the guy was for this other girl)... She asked my wife if he was married and my wife didn't know but had a follow up comment of "who cares as long as he know what he is doing". I checked the phone again later that night just to see if my wife deleted the texts and she in fact did. This is most likely of my sister in laws influence because I have seen her do this to her other friends as well.

As of right now, I am convinced that my wife is not cheating on me, but these things keep popping up that make me believe the possibility of it happening is no longer 0. I can no longer confront her about her "friend" as she gets SUPER defensive about it now (possibly because i didnt do a good job of approaching the issue in the past). Ive put my sister in law on blast many times before but it seems like my wife has gotten tired of me doing that.

The good news is, her husband finally caught her red handed. He found videos of her playing with herself that she sent to some guy at the gym she was sleeping with lol. The bad news, is my wife was obviously complicit and her brother was angry with her for knowing and not telling but she seemed to be supporting the friend more then the brother. Her parents were upset with her and she didn't understand why which bothered the hell out of me.

Now, Ive got extreme anxiety over it all. Its effecting me, my confidence, overall happiness and I find myself with this anxiety around my wife to the point I cant think of anything to say to her. We have actually gotten much better as a couple in the last 6 weeks and been a lot more affectionate towards each other which has given me hope for us but whenever her friend is around she is a lot more stand offish and barely touches me and its giving me serious relationship anxiety and its made me really insecure about myself and our relationship to the point I have seeked out a therapist. Ive spoken to her about all this except the "stand offish" part but the anxiety is still there.

Part of what has me for a loop is that I feel I am losing her to this friend and whever I confront her about it I get the "you dont trust me" card thrown at me along with the "you dont think I can think for myself?" 

Looking for the advice on how I should handle this and proceed?


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

That's a tough one when family is involved. If her friend wasn't family I'd say give your wife an immediate ultimatum.

You should try again to talk to your wife about how you feel and how important this is to you. Use the same talking points you've included in your post. Try honey before vinegar. 

If she refuses to cool it with her SIL, that's when you have to make a decision. But there is no need to confront her again until such point that divorce is to you; the preferable option over her continued association with the SIL - or until she cheats; which ever occurs first. For the former, you can quote her the phrase we often suggest here: "I can't control what you do, but I can control what I accept from you; and I'm no longer willing to accept your ___________". 

But be ready; she'll likely call you controlling, accuse you of not trusting her, tell you I'm not going to let you choose who I can be friends with, and/or cry and say she has so few friends as it is, etc. But you will remember - divorce is your preferred option to the status quo.

If that doesn't turn her around; then implement the 180 and start the D process. Finish it if she doesn't comply; because this obviously means her friendship with her SIL is more important to her than her marriage.

In the mean time, you'd be well advised to continue to monitor her whereabouts and communications.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Disturbed07 said:


> Part of what has me for a loop is that I feel I am losing her to this friend and whever I confront her about it I get the "you dont trust me"
> 
> Looking for the advice on how I should handle this and proceed?


QUESTION: How does a cheater say scr3w you?
ANSWER: They say "trust me".

The next time your wife accuses you of not trusting her, instead of running away from it, confront her head on about it. Tell her that once she started saying things to you like "she doesnt believe that we are meant to sleep with just one person for the rest of our lives", and "ive never cheated on you but now Im thinking that I should, Its not like I dont get opportunities", you realize that she cannot be trusted 100% anymore. Also, tell her that the fact that she knew that her best friend was cheating on her own brother, and that she did not tell her brother about it, proves that she has lost her moral compass, and is following the path of her best friend who is a cheater. She needs to cut off all contact with this toxic friend. If she does not, you need to be willing to end the marriage to have a chance at saving it long term.

Since she and her toxic friend are only able to spend so much time together because she has time on her hand when the children are in school, one thing you can do is to pay all of the household bills yourself as you cut off all extra money to her. This would include cutting off the gym membership, and telling her that if she wants money she needs to get a part time job when the children are in school. Tell her that you paying to fund her friendship with this toxic friend are over.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Since she and her toxic friend are only able to see so much of each other because she has time on her hand when the children are in school, one thing you can do is to pay all the household bills yourself as you cut off all extra money to her. This would include cutting off the gym membership, and telling her if she wants money she needs to get a part time job when the children are in school.


I agree with this response. Your wife has way too much time on her hands.

Also, I'd like to know about what kind of woman tolerates a "friend" who repeatedly hits on her husband in her own home?!?

Your wife sounds really immature. She doesn't have the presence of mind to determine the quality of people she should have in her life...that's something she should have learned a long time ago.

Not only is she disloyal to you but she's disloyal to her own brother and she clearly is the "follower" in a relationship with someone who doesn't have the moral compass to lead. 

This would be a deal-breaker for me. Either the "friend" would go or I would. Real women don't tolerate an outside relationship with someone who is eroding their marriage this way.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Move your family back away from little ms Toxic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

As someone who had felt with extreme toxic friends, you must remove them from your life, conpletely. Even if you have to play the nuclear card and file for D. Toxic friends can have a devastating effect on your marriage. They encourage your wife to cheat and also cover for her activities. 

Put your foot down--it's either her or me!


----------



## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

How close is/was she with her brother? Seems like if she doesn't give a **** about her own brother being cheated on, she certainly is past the point of caring whether you get cheated on. That is, unless they've been fighting for a long time.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

i am surprised you didn't tell your brother in law yourself after your sister in law hit on you? frankly i would put the fear of god int your wife that if you find out she has cheated on you your marriage is over and she can give up the gym and get a job.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Xenote said:


> *i am surprised you didn't tell your brother in law yourself after your sister in law hit on you?* frankly i would put the fear of god int your wife that if you find out she has cheated on you your marriage is over and she can give up the gym and get a job.


Good point; that would have taken some of the starch out of her sails; or either made you her mortal enemy - which may have given you even more ammunition for you to insist your wife dump her.


----------



## In The Dark (Aug 24, 2011)

Disturbed,
My wife's toxic friend also made moves on me. I understand this is slightly different since this is family but you have to cut the cancer out. Otherwise it will continue to grow. 

I too didn't want to be the bad guy but better to be a bad guy who knows what his boundaries are than a nice guy whose wife is cheating on him. Decide what you will or will not tolerate and get serious about it. People respect clear boundaries. They take advantage of those that don't have clear boundaries.

I wish you well and please let us know if you have questions.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Has his brother dumped his cheating wife (toxic friend)? If not, why not ? If so, tell your wife that you understand why he did it and would not hesitate to do the same for far less.


----------



## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Please let your wife's brother read your post. That may take care of the toxic SIL problem.

Also, your wife is threatening you with infidelity. Where are her opportunities coming from? Time to put a cold hard stop to that and I mean right the F now. She will respect nothing else in the long run. So ask her for details of where when and who it is that is trying to have sex with her.

Your wife sounds very immature. I can remember thinking, like you, not my wife....wrong! I'd get and place a VAR in your wife's car. You may be in for one heck of an unpleasant surprise. Her support of the cheating against her own brother is a huge red flag to me.


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Disturbed07 said:


> My sister in law is a toxic person, she is a serial cheater who actively seeks out other guys and I've known this for years about her and I probably could have nipped this in the bud when we first got down here but i didnt.


After reading that, I wondered: OP do you hate your brother in law? What has he done to deserve you helping his wife hide multiple affairs, which you claimed to know about? 




Disturbed07 said:


> Looking for the advice on how I should handle this and proceed?


This whole thing smacks of cheating, and I think, if your wife isn't/hasn't, she's certainly preparing to. What did you say to her when she told you she "doesnt believe that we are meant to sleep with just one person for the rest of our lives"? 

What did you say to your wife when she told you "I've never cheated on you but now I'm thinking that I should, It's not like I don't get opportunities". 

Read Weightlifter's Standard Evidence Thread, and implement the measures recommended. 

Go download Drfone and recover her deleted texts. I'd do this immediately. You'll know right away just how deep in this your relationship is. If you're lucky, your wife hasn't done anything with another man yet. 

DO NOT ACCUSE / CONFRONT / TELL YOUR WIFE. Just find out the information and report back here. 

You've got a lot of homework to do.


----------



## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I'm just gonna throw this out there.....do you think there are any chances that your wife is sleeping with her brothers wife?? They sound AWFUL close and many women don't see sleeping with the same sex as cheating. 

I ask because I once had a toxic friend whom I spent a lot of time with who eventually tried to make a move on ME. I cut ALL ties when this woman got the same damn tattoo I already had! It turned into almost a stalkerish obsession.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry you are here my friend.

Your wife is already cheating on you. She is defending her "best friend" while she is cheating on her brother.WTF !!!

Then when he finds out she is sticking with her,even going against her own parents.ccc

Tell the other husbands what is going on please. They deserve to know the truth.

Also you should be her best friend,you are her husband after all.

She is acting like a teenager doing this things. Ok my friend,who are we going to meet tonight.That dude looks so hot the other day at the gym.

SORRY,NO WAY. Act my friend


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the responses! I appreciate them.

We have fought about her a lot in the last year in a half. So it's not like I have never said anything about her...

She has resented her brother pretty much their entire childhood because he was the golden boy of the family and she was like the black sheep, but in recent years they have seemed to get along fine.... I don't buy the excuse but it is her rational to why she never took sides but it still really bothers me because I have pleaded her to tell her brother and was the subject of many arguments.

I know 100% that she is not currently cheating on me, my concern isn't that right now... My concern is the change in her Moral compass that could lead to it happening in the future. She is exhibiting red flags that it's on her mind and her friend is having an influence but I haven't noticed or found anything as of yet that actually says she is up to something herself... 

I talked to her about it and expressed my concerns, she was resistant to the conversation at first and I believe she was because this woman is the only friend she has had in like 10 years and my wife isn't someone who makes friends easily and i believe it is something she is insecure about. By the end of the conversation she was understanding from where I was coming from.

I am not trying to excuse her thinking but I also was not the greatest husband over the last few years and the fact that she had cheating on her mind I claim partial responsibility for and I told her this and I also told her that I went 9 years without this possibility going through my mind and now it's there and I don't want it to be and that she needs to understand if that's something she wants to do then she needs to just end it with me first.

This conversation happened like 3-4 weeks ago and ever since then she has changed towards me, a lot more affectionate, so much so her mother noticed and made a comment this is the best she has ever seen us together like this. Except when her friend is around of course. Deep down I don't believe she is the person she has started to act like. I have the opportunity now to be able to pull her back towards me but....

My issue is I am still dealing with heavy anxiety over this... Things have changed for the better between us and I want to go back to not worrying about it until other red flags start showing up but I can't remove the thoughts from my head and it's causing me to be really depressed and when I am depressed I don't talk a whole lot To anyone, including her and am more to myself and not sure what to do to get me out of this funk.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Put a VAR in her car leave it in for a week or two and if nothing bad is on it then great.


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

What is var? I googled it and nothing came up


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I do not understand why you don't just tell the husband yourself. If the roles were reversed wouldn't you want him to tell you? Think about it.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Disturbed07 said:


> What is var? I googled it and nothing came up


Voice activated recorder.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You would be surprised how hear how you old lady act when you are not in front of her.

Get the var and find out for your self . Your old lady is not affair proofing this marriage.


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

bryanp said:


> I do not understand why you don't just tell the husband yourself. If the roles were reversed wouldn't you want him to tell you? Think about it.


Never felt it was my business to. If his own sister wouldn't tell him then why is it my responsibility? Their whole circle of friends knew and I was the only one fighting behind the scenes that someone should tell him. 

I am not very close with him.. we don't dislike each other or anything like that but just don't talk much unless at family events.

The only thing I cared about was my wife's role in it all and we've had many discussions about it all My wife tells me everything that goes on and i didnt want to do anything that might stop her from telling me stuff.

I also know it wouldnt matter, he knows how she is I just dont think he knows to what extent... He found out recently and they are going to "counseling". Not the first time she has been caught. If I told him, I dont think anything would of came out of it so I just stayed out of their business and I just focused on my wife.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Disturbed07 said:


> I am not trying to excuse her thinking but I also was not the greatest husband over the last few years and the fact that she had cheating on her mind I claim partial responsibility for and I told her this and I also told her that I went 9 years without this possibility going through my mind and now it's there and I don't want it to be and that she needs to understand if that's something she wants to do then she needs to just end it with me first.
> 
> OK friend Your on the fast track to losing big time. If there's problems in the marriage then take you 50% and work on it and she does the same with hers, but when it comes to cheating then that falls on her and her only. DO NOT take responsibility for her actions if she cheats on you.
> 
> ...


----------



## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Move your family back away from little ms Toxic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


^ this % 100


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

^ unfortunately, that's not an option right now


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

So your wife goes out on girls nights out with her widely known cheating sister in law? How often?


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

Not often, was like once every 6 weeks or so.

My SIL recently got caught so that probably will be happening with less frequency.


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Just curious how you know, 100%, that your W is not cheating? She is clearly the 'wing woman' on the GNOs. To maintain that role, she almost has to be dancing, hanging all over, kissing other men. Just saying.


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Disturbed07 said:


> about 2 weeks later while my wife was in a drunken stupor she said the same thing to me WORD for WORD. This happened about a year ago and recently we got in a pretty big fight and made a comment "ive never cheated on you but now I'm thinking that I should, Its not like I don't get opportunities" so now I know its something that goes through her mind.



This is really bade. That's an after affect statement.

This means something has happened.

If nothing has happened, then it means she's mean enough to try to hurt you.

Another point is that she's part of the affairs. She endorses them 1) she wants to inflict pain on her brother 2) She want to live vicariously through the affairs

You need to step back and address two items 1) Your wife isn't who you think she is - she is capable of of whole lot of hurt 2) Why do you allow her to treat you like this?


Also - knock that crap of not being the best husband off. That has nothing to do with her thinking of cheating. Cheating is a choice, not a result.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Disturbed07 said:


> Never felt it was my business to. If his own sister wouldn't tell him then why is it my responsibility? Their whole circle of friends knew and *I was the only one fighting behind the scenes that someone should tell him. *
> 
> I am not very close with him.. we don't dislike each other or anything like that but just don't talk much unless at family events.
> 
> ...


Maybe if your brother-in-law knew the whole story he would limit or eliminate them hanging out together.
*EXPOSURE* can be a wonderful tool in helping all parties here.
and maybe if your wife's parents knew more information they might be able to help.
The information does not have to come from you


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

Because deep down, I know my wife isn't a cheater, her nature is being shy and introverted. She is also the type to talk a "big game" around friends to fit in.

I have no doubt that speaking with other guys when they go out happens... But they don't go out enough that I am worried about that... I am more worried about their time at the gym.

She hasn't been shady at all about time being spent or being shady with cell phones for the most part. So to me, there isn't enough red flags yet that she is in the act of having a relationship with someone else..

The red flags all point to her level of comfort in the idea of cheating has risen and the ball is rolling that way and I now have the opportunity to stop it but my anxiety about it all is getting in the way because I went 9 years trusting my wife 100% and now it's no longer 100% and I am having a hard time dealing with that.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Disturbed07 said:


> Because deep down, I know my wife isn't a cheater, her nature is being shy and introverted. She is also the type to talk a "big game" around friends to fit in.
> 
> I have no doubt that speaking with other guys when they go out happens... But they don't go out enough that I am worried about that... I am more worried about their time at the gym.
> 
> ...


agree and understandable, now is the time to step up you game here.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

While hindsight is 20/20 at this point do you regret not informing the BIL abbot his WS and driving a toxic friend from your wife's life? 

When married a person cannot be a friend a friend unless they are a friend of the marriage. Note I said marriage not spouse. 

Consider this old joke:

How do you stop a mormon/baptist/muslim from drinking on a business trip ?
Send two.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Hire a PI to follow her on the next girls night out. You'll get your answer very quickly.

Also, ditch the gym membership and tell her to find a part time job.

And why does your wife have an inordinate amount of difficulty making friends? Only one friend in 10 years? I don't get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

Disturbed07 said:


> Because deep down, I know my wife isn't a cheater, her nature is being shy and introverted. She is also the type to talk a "big game" around friends to fit in.
> 
> I have no doubt that speaking with other guys when they go out happens... But they don't go out enough that I am worried about that... I am more worried about their time at the gym.
> 
> ...


I used to think the same thing that my wife was not that type of person who would cheat. Well a 9 month affair proved me wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

JohnA said:


> While hindsight is 20/20 at this point do you regret not informing the BIL abbot his WS and driving a toxic friend from your wife's life?
> 
> When married a person cannot be a friend a friend unless they are a friend of the marriage. Note I said marriage not spouse.
> 
> ...



Part of me does. But it wouldn't of driven the toxic friend from her life. I know this for sure.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

You and her parents need to support the BIL.

You will hear to save a marriage, you need to be willing to lose it. At this point she is going to cheat, unless things change.

Circle the wagon with the BIL and in-laws. Talk with an attorney about a post divorce life. Then, work on your marriage and discover how you and she can be better spouses and parents.

Take this as a huge red flag of coming events and batten down the hatches.


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Hire a PI to follow her on the next girls night out. You'll get your answer very quickly.
> 
> Also, ditch the gym membership and tell her to find a part time job.
> 
> ...


Been barking up the get a job tree for a long time now.

She is not the easiest person to get along with and she never made any real efforts to making any, as I stated above she is shy and introverted but this SIL is an extrovert and brings more of that side out of my wife which is the reason why I believe my wife is so infatuated with her.

My sister was here for 2 weeks last year, I had to work alot at the time so I didnt get to spend too much time with her but she spent alot of time with my wife and her friend.... My sister kept telling me that they have a really weird obsession with each other.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Disturbed07

You need to tell your wife you need to talk and their will be rules to this talk. 
1) no yelling
2) no anger
3) your expectations of her and your boundaries
4) if one becomes angry stop, come back together later
5) tell her your marriage is on the line
6) no longer stand offish when toxic babe is around
7) is the friendship worth more to your wife then marriage?
8) no deleting of texts or anything else in her phone
9) her phone is to be gone through each time she sees toxic babe
10) boundaries are non negotiable

You need to do this now, be firm but nice, let her know that cheating is unacceptable to you and it means divorce. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Disturbed07
> 
> You need to tell your wife you need to talk and their will be rules to this talk.
> 1) no yelling
> ...


This^^^
The sooner the better.


----------



## z_man (Nov 1, 2013)

Disturbed07 said:


> Part of me does. But *it wouldn't of driven the toxic friend from her life*. I know this for sure.



Then it is up to you.


----------



## z_man (Nov 1, 2013)

Disturbed07 said:


> SIL is an extrovert and brings more of that side out of my wife which is the reason why I believe my wife is so infatuated with her.


And she will bring out the cheater side in your wife as well. This is the 'toxic' influence that requires elimination.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I agree with this response. Your wife has way too much time on her hands.
> 
> Also, I'd like to know about what kind of woman tolerates a "friend" who repeatedly hits on her husband in her own home?!?
> 
> ...


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

The time to act on this entire deal was Yesterday.

Your Wife's relationship with her SIL is a ticking time bomb.

If she hasn't cheated on you already(and that a BIG if) it will happen soon.

You say that your wife and SIL are unusually close. You've written that "My sister kept telling me that they have a really weird obsession with each other.". Well imitation is the highest form a flattery. Between the 9/10 GNO's and all their other contact i think that it's more likely than not that your Wife has already crossed a line.

She's obviously her SIL's wing woman when they're out together. I say out because it doesn't have to just be at a bar. It could be at the mall, the grocery store, or local Home Depot/Lowe's. Do you really think that your Wife stood idly by every time her SIL was working her magic on the next potential OM? I'll bet that she at least flirted while a friend of the guy her SIL was working on that day was busy hitting on her SIL.

If I were you, I would consider where I draw the line between attempting an R, or filing for a D. If your wife has already gone, or in the future gets physical with a OM. Would this be the point of no return on your marriage? Because from what you've written here so far I think that it's more likely to have already happened, or will happen, then not.

You never gave much of a response to the VAR post. If your wife doesn't work you could start by just hiding one near where she's likely to talk to her SIL. You may think that this crosses a line, but I know that she crossed one when she basically told you that she now thinks cheating is o.k....


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Disturbed07 said:


> Because deep down, I know my wife isn't a cheater, her nature is being shy and introverted. She is also the type to talk a "big game" around friends to fit in.


 Well she tried to talk a big game to you when she said word for word about just sleeping with just one person and she's thinking about cheating. 

That right there was when you should have told her that if that's what she wants then she may as well pack up on her own before you throw her out. 

If it were me I would find the toxic wife's husband, tell everything you know about her and blow her ass out of the water once and for all then tell your wife that if she doesn't wise up real quick then the same thing will happen to her. 

You can't be a nice guy when someone else has a hold on your wife's mind like the sister in law. It's obvious that your wife can be swayed with very little effort. When she can bad mouth you with threats to you marriage to feel like a big shot then it's up to you to break the cycle.

Start doing a 180 on er and sooner or later she's going to ask what gives and then you tell her that the trust you had with your wife is circling the drain and she's the only one that can do anything about it because your at the point of cutting her loose if you can't trust her.


----------



## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Disturbed07 said:


> Been barking up the get a job tree for a long time now.
> 
> She is not the easiest person to get along with and she never made any real efforts to making any, as I stated above she is shy and introverted but this SIL is an extrovert and brings more of that side out of my wife which is the reason why I believe my wife is so infatuated with her.
> 
> My sister was here for 2 weeks last year, I had to work alot at the time so I didnt get to spend too much time with her but she spent alot of time with my wife and her friend.... My sister kept telling me that they have a really weird obsession with each other.


Woman here. "Birds of the same feather, flock together". So your wife is not an easy person to get along with. Your sister tells you that they have a weird obsession with each other. This is a display of immature and childish behavior for grown up and married women.

OP, how old are you and your wife? What are the ages of your children?


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

I'm 34, she is 30... Kids are 6 5 3


----------



## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Disturbed07 said:


> Because deep down, I know my wife isn't a cheater, her nature is being shy and introverted.


Man, if I had a nickel for every story in this forum that included the phrase "I KNOW my spouse isn't a cheater, but..". Including my own story.

The toxic friend, the fact that she straight up told you that she feels cheating is justifiable, the fact that she's deleting texts, and the fact that she didn't even feel the need to tell her OWN BROTHER he was being cheated on are huge red flags. It's not a *guarantee* that she's cheating, but the odds are high enough that it's worth some investigation. Check out the Standard Evidence Post.


----------



## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Well this is going to be a thread that develops over the next few months unless the poster takes immediate action

I really recommend poster reads a lot...sorry lots...not I mean loads of posts where the husband was sure his wife hadn't cheated yet


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

truster said:


> Man, if I had a nickel for every story in this forum that included the phrase "I KNOW my spouse isn't a cheater, but..". Including my own story.
> 
> The toxic friend, the fact that she straight up told you that she feels cheating is justifiable, the fact that she's deleting texts, and the fact that she didn't even feel the need to tell her OWN BROTHER he was being cheated on are huge red flags. It's not a *guarantee* that she's cheating, but the odds are high enough that it's worth some investigation. Check out the Standard Evidence Post.


I agree haha but I am an extremely observant person with very good investigative skills and spent more time then I would like to admit studying the human psyche.

I haven't found a single piece of evidence or made any type of observations that gave any red flags that she is in fact cheating and there is someone else in her life. My wife isnt a great forward thinker and if she was having a relationship with someone else, there would be some crumbs.

The only evidence I have so far is my ***** of a SIL influence has grown on her and she is starting to emulate some of that behavior... Even little things like my SIL swears alot, my wife never really swore but has started picking up the habit.. Believe it or not, my wife has never masturbated in her 28-29 years of life until this girls influence and now she has her own vibrator (which I dont mind, i find it hot and we've brought it into the bedroom a few times) but it still signifies a influential change.

The influence has started to grow stronger and stronger. 

We had some discussions and things seem to be going in the right direction, she has been MUCH more affectionate towards me since those discussions which makes me feel that all this behavior was just a way to get my attention but my radar is still up and my trust of her has dropped but like I said in an earlier post, I went 9 years with having 0 doubts to all of a sudden having real trust issues and I live in an area where I have 0 friends and family so I am in a deep insecure state right now and the anxiety of having this lack of trust is something I am having a very hard time dealing with.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Disturbed07 said:


> I now have the opportunity to stop it but my anxiety about it all is getting in the way because I went 9 years trusting my wife 100% and now it's no longer 100% and I am having a hard time dealing with that.


Here's the thing Dawg. You don't trust her to be beyond the influence to the ho sister in law. You may as well just come out and put those cards on the table with her. You've got plenty of reason to question her loyalty just from the way she stands there grinning while her SIL f-cks over her own brother.
Neither do you seem to understand womanese when she comments to you about maybe she ought to have an affair. All she's doing is pre-justifying what she's thinking about doing. She accusing you of trying to control her where the reality is she's controlling you with her guilt inflecting comments and know you're not big on confrontation. 
As far as you thinking her personality renders an affair unlikely , people often underestimate what their loved ones are capable of doing. Its like Lizzie Borden's father told a neighbor, "I hope she marries a man who don't need her help cutting their firewood. That girl will never be able to the handle an axe."


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Disturbed07 said:


> I agree haha but I am an extremely observant person with very good investigative skills and spent more time then I would like to admit studying the human psyche.
> 
> I haven't found a single piece of evidence or made any type of observations that gave any red flags that she is in fact cheating and there is someone else in her life. My wife isnt a great forward thinker and if she was having a relationship with someone else, there would be some crumbs.
> 
> ...


Total trust in a spouse is naive. You can never trust anyone 100%.

A friend of mine was having trouble in his marriage until his wife suddenly and without explanation became the perfect wife. Affectionate, loving, catering to his every want. She was a stay at home Mom. She kept a perfect home for the family and was his idea of a perfect mate.

Until he found out she was having an affair for the last two years and her behavior changed just after the affair started. She intentionally acted this way at home in the hopes that he would not suspect that she was meeting her lover at hotels at least twice a week.

Not saying this is happening to you. Only that 100% trust often eliminates your recognition of red flags when they do appear.

You may not like the feeling this gives you but being observant and recognizing strange behavior for what it is could help you protect your marriage. Most call it a gut feeling and you should not discount it. If you feel something is wrong - it probably is and you should investigate further.

But if your wife's recent behavior is a result of a morality shift, there is not much you can do about it. Keep that healthy observation of her behavior. It will serve you well if you listen to your gut.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Here...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

Please get VARs for the house and the car.
Good luck.


----------



## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Disturbed07 said:


> I haven't found a single piece of evidence or made any type of observations that gave any red flags that she is in fact cheating and there is someone else in her life. My wife isnt a great forward thinker and if she was having a relationship with someone else, there would be some crumbs.


Where have you looked and what have you tried? It doesn't take a genius to delete text/Facebook messages, use an app like KIK or Snapchat, hide suspicious numbers under ladies' names, or keep a burner phone.

If you've done the things in the Standard Evidence Post (restoring deleted texts, checking a VAR) and got nothing, I'd agree there's nothing. If you've simply glanced at her phone occasionally and not seen any texts, you're barely scratching the surface of the most rudimentary of cheater coverups.


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

OP - she may not have boyfriends that last more than a couple of hours or she is more careful than you think because the OM is coaching her. Not saying she is cheating, but one thing I do know, is that if my W started hanging out with a known cheater are nominally helping facilitate her friends cheating, we would have severe issues and my W would be 'shaping up or shipping out'.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What your wife wants is a husband who lays down the law. Who says he loves her and wants nothing but her and his family, but he will NOT tolerate cheating or even cheating-LIKE behavior. Who says "I can't force you to do anything, I can only tell you what I will tolerate in MY life. And if you continue to spend every waking minute with this woman, it will tell me that you'd rather have her in your life than me, and I'll act accordingly. She is NOT a friend of our marriage, she ENCOURAGES you - regularly - to cheat on me, and I'm not going to just sit around and wait for you to keep turning down the opportunities. You have a choice to make. Come back to a healthy marriage situation or break free and try your luck as a single woman. But I won't stay in a marriage any longer where you're being groomed to cheat."


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Disturbed07

What your wife has told you is that she has probably cheated already. I wouldn't doubt that she has at the minimum been kissing and hugging some men. Her comments were I believe, your shyt test, and you failed. I have zero doubt that she has cheated, zero. Alcohol is when the truth comes out, and from what she said, that deal is sealed. 

Becoming defensive about her friend, that's huge and you back down. You needed to discuss boundaries long ago, yet you passed up that opportunity also. In fact you are so sure she hasn't cheated, you are all anxious. You have lost trust in her only based on her comments. You ignore the fact your gut and body know she has cheated. I don't care if she hates her brother, a family member would tell. She won't tell because she is in the other bed of their double bed motel room while you sit at home trying to calm yourself down. 

Guess what, my wife couldn't possibly cheat either. My wife is not that kind of lady. My wife wouldn't go and have sex with another male, she isn't capable, nor can I find any shred of evidence. Think again, not only did my wife have sex with another male, she had a six month long affair with kissing and groping three days a week. No, my wife could be cheating, there was no missing time. Oh, that's right she had sex during work hours! Listen to your gut and end this cheating now.

I'm sure you think I'm some idiot who just didn't look in the right place for evidence. I'm sure you think I missed several red flags and other vital information. I'm sure I did, as I'm sure that you have. You know she deletes texts, do you think maybe she does that before she comes home to you too? Are you sure on where they are going? Do you think she just sits at the table of where they are waiting for toxic babe to return from sex? For the life of me I can't possibly imagine why you are so adamant she hasn't cheated. I guess she loves being the third wheel with toxic babe!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Disturbed07 said:


> I agree haha but I am an extremely observant person with very good investigative skills and spent more time then I would like to admit studying the human psyche.
> 
> *I haven't found a single piece of evidence or made any type of observations that gave any red flags that she is in fact cheating and there is someone else in her life.* My wife isnt a great forward thinker and if she was having a relationship with someone else, there would be some crumbs.


Except this...


Disturbed07 said:


> She asked my wife if he was married and my wife didn't know but had a follow up comment of "who cares as long as he know what he is doing". I checked the phone again later that night just to see if my wife deleted the texts and she in fact did


....And this....


Disturbed07 said:


> she made a comment "that she doesnt believe that we are meant to sleep with just one person for the rest of our lives"


Aaaaaaand this little gem...


Disturbed07 said:


> recently we got in a pretty big fight and made a comment "ive never cheated on you but now Im thinking that I should, Its not like I dont get opportunities"


Your wife has told you she wants to cheat on you. You should believe her. 

I asked you on page 1: what did you say to your wife when she told you these things? I think an answer to that will help people here better understand your situation and provide better advice.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Disturbed07 said:


> I haven't found a single piece of evidence or made any type of observations that gave any red flags that she is in fact cheating and there is someone else in her life. My wife isnt a great forward thinker and if she was having a relationship with someone else, there would be some crumbs.


 If you look through other threads on this site, you will see that most betrayed spouses almost always start off saying that they would know if their spouse was cheating on them. Time after time on this site they are proven wrong. Studies show that the spouse not knowing about the cheating is the norm. According to the MSNBC.com/iVillage Lust, Love & Loyalty survey, “If your partner is cheating, chances are, you have no idea”, and that “vast majority of affairs never see the light of day”. The study actually goes on to state that “Few cheaters — only 2 percent — were busted in the act. And even when confronted with a partner's suspicions, only 6 percent of both men and women confessed to having an affair.” In other words, if she is cheating, odds are you would not know. When you add to this the fact that she by her own admission has regularly put her self in a position to have plenty of opportunities to cheat, and that her best friend that she spends so much of her time with is a serial cheater, the odds of her having cheated are much higher than normal.

Stop believing your own propaganda. Your wife has had many opportunities to cheat without you knowing. Following the lead of her serial cheater mentor, that is cheating on your wife's brother right in front of your wife, your wife would have been taught all the tricks of how to cheat without you finding out.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

My friend you dont need any evidence like you said. You have enough.

She told yo about her "rule" sleeping with one man.
She told you she can easly cheat on you and you will never find out.

She suports cheater and cheating,not only her "best friend" but she is telling the other wifes to do it also.

Both of them,even other wifes are laughing behind her brothers back and trust me on this one,they are laughing on you too.

She is deleting text.

She have ONLY ONE FRIEND,why is that ??? Because everybody else can see what they are doing.

Your wife is not going to sit there while her friend is doing things with other guys.


Ask yourself what would your children think of this when they grow up?


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

turnera said:


> What your wife wants is a husband who lays down the law. Who says he loves her and wants nothing but her and his family, but he will NOT tolerate cheating or even cheating-LIKE behavior. Who says "I can't force you to do anything, I can only tell you what I will tolerate in MY life. And if you continue to spend every waking minute with this woman, it will tell me that you'd rather have her in your life than me, and I'll act accordingly. She is NOT a friend of our marriage, she ENCOURAGES you - regularly - to cheat on me, and I'm not going to just sit around and wait for you to keep turning down the opportunities. You have a choice to make. Come back to a healthy marriage situation or break free and try your luck as a single woman. But I won't stay in a marriage any longer where you're being groomed to cheat."


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
@OP: Great post that you should read and internalize. The "I won't stay in a marriage any longer where you're being groomed to cheat" is right on the money.


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Anyone out there ever play wingwoman for a toxic friend? Will you please explain to the OP what that position entails?


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Wingwomen are very effective when employed by a man; much moreso than a wingman in helping with the introduction. Think of it like this when on woman is another womans wingwoman, " You're really a dynamite guy. I'm happily married but my friend over there husband treats her like crap and she's looking" A little crudely put together but you get the picture.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

So, you say that your wife never masterbates in 28 some odd years. Now she not only does, but also for the fist time she owns/uses a dildo.

For all those years she only got sexual gratification with/through you. Now she also gets it with out you being there.

She then starts dropping lines like we're not meant to have sex with only one person and maybe she should have an affair.

Those were sh!t tests and you failed them when you didn't tell her clearly and immediately that if she does decide to cheat on you, the marriage is OVER. She was probing you to gauge your reaction and I have the feeling that she liked what she saw.

I said it before, if it hasn't happened yet(BIG if), it's going to. There's a train a comin' and it seems to me that you're more concerned with which side of the tracks you should jump towards then when to jump.

You can tell yourself that she's never cheated(physically) before and for all we know she hasn't. But before someone cheats, they think about(With women I feel that they even fantasize about about). They prep they plan. I believe that your wife is currently doing just that.

I think that if you were to place a VAR in an area that she would most likely talk to the SIL, you'ld find out soon that this is indeed the case.

I also think if you had a good, close friend that would go where your wife and SIL are during their next GNO, he/she would inform you that this is indeed the case.

I get the feeling that you really don't want to know what she may have done, or is thinking of doing. You just want it to stop. That alone would make you happy. Sorry to say, as long as she's still friends with the cheater SIL and ESPECIALLY she continues their GNO's, it's not going to stop. GNO's and BNO's are a main reason and conduit for cheating. This is most likely when it has, or when it will happen.


----------



## Disturbed07 (Nov 16, 2015)

Their GNOs are few and far inbetween and now that the SIL just got caught a few weeks ago so I doubt it will be anymore anytime soon.

The reason why I dont think she has cheated yet, is because I havent found any concerning evidence that would point to that. Just evidence that supports a change in mindset.

My wife is at the gym every morning from 9-11, we currently live with my in laws due to financial restrictions of the move and my mother in law (who knows everything that is going on with the SIL and understands my concerns) has told me she is home virtually everyday around 11:30-12 then she goes to pick up the kids at school around 2. She is home with me every night and every weekend and never goes out on her own except for the every once in a while GNO which is like 5-6 weeks apart and one more then one occasion has called me to pick her up because she drank too much. She has deleted texts about shady conversations with friends but she isnt super secretive with her phone, she will leave it lying around me while she goes to do something and doesnt guard it with her life like most people who cheat would.

We have had a very rough marriage, especially after the kids were born.. It was lonely for a long time and I truly believe she is just acting out with the hopes of getting my attention... The SIL is def having a bad influence on her and getting in her head but I believe I have the opportunity to pull her back. If she ends up cheating then its on her, but I do take SOME responsibility for the thoughts entering her mind because at one point when things were bad they entered my mind as well but never to the point as advanced as this seems to be.

And FYI, she does know how I feel about cheating and I have talked to her that is not something I would tolerate in the past.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Not to put things in your head......but how do you know she's always at the gym? Also, working out everyday for 2 to 3 hrs? Is she training for some sort of competition?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read the book His Needs Her Needs? Seems like a good time to read it.


----------



## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Disturbed07 said:


> My wife is at the gym every morning from 9-11 .. she is home virtually everyday around 11:30-12 then she goes to pick up the kids at school around 2. She is home with me every night and every weekend and never goes out on her own except for the every once in a while GNO which is like 5-6 weeks apart


That is almost EXACTLY my STBXW's daily schedule. As it turns out, "2 hours at the gym" was more like "30-60 min at the gym and then bang some guys.. or 0 min at the gym and bang some guys on 'rest days'". She didn't really turn it into going out at night a lot until I caught her and she didn't give a crap anymore, although before I caught her she did have "GNO's" at around the interval you describe. 2-3 hours at the gym, daily, is pretty high for someone that's not training hard for a serious competition.

Again, what was your investigation process that made you so sure nothing was going on? Seems like you've just occasionally looked at her phone, which even an amateur first-time cheater can cover up. Someone coached by a professional such as your SIL will know how to route messages through Snapchat, KIK, WhatsApp, a burner phone.. all that good stuff.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

You are again talkign about "evidence". See my previous post,you have a lot of evidence,damn you can even make a book of it.

One more thing-stop defending your wife and stop blaming your SIL. 

Your wife is doing this not your SIL. 

Your wife even talked with two other wifes about finding "lover boys".

OPEN your eyes man


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

When I was in my mid 20's, I worked out 1.5 to 2.5 hours a day, 6 days a week. If you saw me walking down the street you'd know that I worked out a lot. It showed. There was no hiding it.

If your wife's appearance does not reflect that of a woman that works out 1.5 to 2 hours a day, 4 - 5 days a week... There it is...

Well, good luck my friend. Get your ducks all in a row because when you finally find out, at least you'll have a head start on the financials, etc..

Like babe's in the wood.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IDK. Our gym has a dry sauna, a wet sauna, 3 pools, 3 hot tubs, outdoor pool spa area, several class rooms, pilates class room, a rock climbing wall, a beauty salon...It's fairly easy to spend 2 hours a day there and not even work out.


----------



## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

turnera said:


> IDK. Our gym has a dry sauna, a wet sauna, 3 pools, 3 hot tubs, outdoor pool spa area, several class rooms, pilates class room, a rock climbing wall, a beauty salon...It's fairly easy to spend 2 hours a day there and not even work out.


It's certainly not *impossible* to just be using the gym 2-3 hours a day, but when combined with all of the other insanity it's just another thing to be very suspicious of.

My main point by focusing on that is that OP seems to be saying "Sure, there's reasonable suspicion, and she has motive, but she has no opportunity.. she only goes out to go to the gym 2-3 hours a day!" To which I say, "Um, there's the opportunity.."


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Disturbed07

Take two days off work, don't tell your wife and keep to your normal routine. Leave the house as if you were going to work. Sit sighin a half mile of your house. Follow her but not closely, after all you know she is going to the gym. If she shows try to see what she does there. If she doesn't show, follow more closely with a rented car on off day number two.

My opinion of this is that your side goes to the gym, stays for a half hour then leaves with someone. Gets back home at her normal time, picks up the kids and life is normal. I am one hundred percent sure she has cheated on you, but that's my opinion. The difference between you and I is, I would follow her instead of waiting for the evidence. Best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Who was the guy a while back that someone at the gym going security tapes of his wife banging gym mgr. And having them do trains on her...3-4 guys.


----------



## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

drifting on said:


> Disturbed07
> My opinion of this is that your side goes to the gym, stays for a half hour then leaves with someone. Gets back home at her normal time, picks up the kids and life is normal. I am one hundred percent sure she has cheated on you, but that's my opinion. The difference between you and I is, I would follow her instead of waiting for the evidence. Best of luck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will say that (projecting going off my anecdote), there will likely be days she just goes to the gym. Plenty of them. Weekday mornings are not an easy time for most guys to just have available. In my story, various guys would find a way to take an 'early lunch' here or there, so the sex was maybe only once a week or every two weeks. Well.. at least from what I found. Could've been more, but what I found was enough to not need to invest in more investigation.

It's worth observing, just in case her fling is with fellow gym regulars, trainers, whatever. But a day of observation isn't much confirmation either way. Likely the smoking gun (or lack thereof) will be in deleted texts, hidden email addresses, KIK, WhatsApp, all that stuff.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You have a pretty good handle on things now since your eyes are open. 

Hit the gym.

Tell your wife that you expect her to be a good influence on her SIL. Don't discuss it as if there were any question.

Conduct yourself with self confidence, offering your wife the choice between bettering herself and sliding off the rails.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

I too thought my ex(s) were incapable of cheating. Perhaps their definition of cheating was different than mine. 

Also, you say you live with your in-laws for financial reasons. How long ago did you move? I bet it's time you got a place of your own, and for your wife to get a job - at least part time - to help you afford to do this.


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

My wife had a toxic friend many years ago. I didn't really worry about it until one summer that it got out of hand. It ended then. I COULDN'T ignore it any longer. Then I suddenly looked at some of the times they spent together in years past, and I got a bad feeling in my gut about the state of my marriage.

She'll stop. Something will happen that will force your hand. A guy will call and you will answer. A friend "heard from a friend that they saw her dancing at a club. Dancing so provocatively that she thinks..." Maybe saw her at the gym, or NOT as the case may be. Going into an apartment building with a guy at 10:45 AM (in response to a previous post, a guy WILL make time for that). Maybe just sitting at a picnic table in the park for an hour. Talking and laughing. You will have to confront her then.

You are probably right. She did not "cheat". The type of infidelity she has chosen does not necessarily require penetration of any kind. That is why she chose it. She can, with 100% plausable deniability, say "we were just out dancing", "we were just at the gym", "we just went on a long lazy lunch", We just had an early dinner and sat and chatted for three hours". 

If she wanted to "cheat", in the traditional sense, she'd get a lover, sneak out to see him and you'd have no idea she was gone. Or go t the supermarket, basically go up to a guy and say "F&[email protected] me" and be home before you knew she was gone. Actually GO to an early dinner, late lunch and approach a guy..." You get my point. 

All while being a PRINCESS at home so you don't suspect.

Instead, she has chosen to be "honest" with you. Yeah, I'm having a little fun with SIL, so what. Yes, we go to the gym. Yes, we go to the clubs, so what? She doesn't have to lie. That's why she is so confident with her answers.

Can we all agree that the SIL is the lowest form of cheating, whoring scum on the planet? If there was ever a woman who WOULD be caught on video getting trained at the gym it would be HER, right? I do not partake, but would someone here please explain to this gentleman what even ONE evening on a GNO was like for this duo? I can guarantee you it would count as cheating in MY book. Maybe not yours. She could probably take a lie detector test and pass the "did you cheat on me at the clubs/gym?" question. Or the "Have you ever had sex with anyone while we were married?" one. She'd pass.

But the men she's partied with. Flirted with. Hung out with. Had very inappropriate conversations with. And what, exactly, did she do when ****ty SIL went away to do the deed?

So, no. She didn't "CHEAT cheat". But how you can sit there and say with near 100% certainty that she didn't "cheat" just defies logic.

I need to run so I can't get to my "don't rugsweep it or you'll be like me in 10 years" post...


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

truster said:


> I will say that (projecting going off my anecdote), there will likely be days she just goes to the gym. Plenty of them. Weekday mornings are not an easy time for most guys to just have available.


They'll find a way, as @MachoMcCoy has pointed out. And gyms are a fairly common place to meet people for extramarital activities...


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

truster said:


> I will say that (projecting going off my anecdote), there will likely be days she just goes to the gym. Plenty of them. Weekday mornings are not an easy time for most guys to just have available. In my story, various guys would find a way to take an 'early lunch' here or there, so the sex was maybe only once a week or every two weeks. Well.. at least from what I found. Could've been more, but what I found was enough to not need to invest in more investigation.
> 
> It's worth observing, just in case her fling is with fellow gym regulars, trainers, whatever. But a day of observation isn't much confirmation either way. Likely the smoking gun (or lack thereof) will be in deleted texts, hidden email addresses, KIK, WhatsApp, all that stuff.




My wife and her OM met up two or three times a week. Kissing and groping on each meet up. I know many guys that start work at three PM or worked midnight shift and went to the gym on the morning. If she is staying at the gym for two hours a day she must be very fit. Is she? Or is she fraternizing with the people there? I suggest following as it is a routine, routines are planned, and the chances of catching in two back to back days of surveillance is pretty high.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Cheaters can be very adept and sneaky while hiding an affair. Just because you have found no smoking gun does not mean that nothing going on.

I remember one poster whose gut said his wife was cheating and he even suspected he knew who OM was. He tried for months to catch them. VAR in the car and in the house. GPS on her phone and in the car. Keyloggers on all electronic device. Found nothing. Even had a PI follow her while he was on a business trip. Found nothing. He was thinking he was paranoid and about to give up when he caught them.

Finally caught them with a wifi cameras set up outside his house to record front and back doors. Turns out his wife would drive to a local 7-11, meet OM and drive him back to her house.

They had been in the affair for over 5 years.

So if your gut is telling you something is not right - listen to your gut and keep investigating.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It's pretty much a toss up among gym , teacher, nurse affairs over the years I e been here as to who wins the most in having affairs.

Your idea she has no time for an affair has you totally buffaloed. You already have enough red flags for a Chinese mayday parade.

Good luck.


----------

