# Is insecurity about partner watching porn truly a sign of something sinister?



## LillyBird (3 mo ago)

Hello! I have been with my partner for 10 years, we have 2 beautiful children together and generally have a very easy-going and loving relationship. The one thing I am not okay with is porn. To me, it is fantasizing about being with another, probably better looking woman etc. (By the way, do men do this?! Like see a woman in the street and imagine having sex with her? The things I find on forums are surprising for me ) Okay sure, maybe on a rare occasion it is whatever - it would not bother me much, but the thought of it being regular is almost sickening for me. He knows I don't like it and denies watching it, I have looked in his phone a couple of times - which was always going to be fruitless given incognito mode anyway. No part of me ever wants to read messages, know his location etc. but I would 110% want to know if he watching porn and what it was. Nudity in films etc. is absolutely fine, but watching somebody have sex with a half-silicone woman and getting off to it really bothers me.

I searched this issue I have to find that it seemed uncommon... most comments addressing this were brutal and saying the concerned partner was jealous and insecure and needed therapy and their marriage was doomed... is this true? Is it so bad to be jealous? 

He is mostly an honest person, unless it comes to something he knows I will be upset about - like spending too much money on something stupid etc. in that case, I have found him to withhold information from me before. Or at least play it down massively. 

He was my first boyfriend and (only ever) sexual partner as an 18yo, and we were friends before that. In the time I knew him, I knew him to have several relationships and typical teenage boy habits of trying to sleep with as many girls as possible! I was very different - I partied but saved myself for somebody I could connect with. I think the insecurity stems partially from my inexperience with anyone else, and partially from how hard I am on my self-image. 

Is this really such a problem, or a sign of issues within a relationship that need to be addressed?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

LillyBird said:


> Hello! I have been with my partner for 10 years, we have 2 beautiful children together and generally have a very easy-going and loving relationship. The one thing I am not okay with is porn. To me, it is fantasizing about being with another, probably better looking woman etc. (By the way, do men do this?! Like see a woman in the street and imagine having sex with her? The things I find on forums are surprising for me ) Okay sure, maybe on a rare occasion it is whatever - it would not bother me much, but the thought of it being regular is almost sickening for me. He knows I don't like it and denies watching it, I have looked in his phone a couple of times - which was always going to be fruitless given incognito mode anyway. No part of me ever wants to read messages, know his location etc. but I would 110% want to know if he watching porn and what it was. Nudity in films etc. is absolutely fine, but watching somebody have sex with a half-silicone woman and getting off to it really bothers me.
> 
> I searched this issue I have to find that it seemed uncommon... most comments addressing this were brutal and saying the concerned partner was jealous and insecure and needed therapy and their marriage was doomed... is this true? Is it so bad to be jealous?
> 
> ...


@LillyBird Welcome to TAM! 

There's a couple of things to unpack here so bear with me.

First this: "_He is mostly an honest person_"

That's a problem. I understand minimizing something that will hurt your partner, but for you to be secure in your relationship you need to know that he is honest with you, in spite of any pain it may cause. In my mind, this is the biggest problem I see in your OP.

Next, about porn. Feelings across the world and here on TAM widely vary. The biggest thing I can tell you is that whatever boundary you have regarding porn needs to be communicated to your spouse and respected by your spouse. But there's no right or wrong answer. Some men or women consider viewing porn the same as infidelity while others are not bothered at all. Pick your own path, be comfortable with it, and then discuss it with your spouse.

About this: "_By the way, do men do this?_"
Men (I am one) widely vary in what their imaginations allow. For the most part, I do not think it's like that, and certainly, it's not like that for everyone. Some maybe.

I hope this helps. Your concerns look perfectly normal to me and the fact that your (husband? partner?) may not be respecting your wishes is troubling. You and he should discuss this openly and involve a couples counselor if you can't find agreement on the issue. But if he is only "mostly honest" then any agreement you have is going to be hard to trust.

Best wishes to you.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Silicone woman, sure there is a lot of that but the some of the most popular categories are amateurs and mature, the Barbie doll porn is somewhat boring.

A lot of of men want full spectrum sex with their partner and if that is not available they watch porn far better than them having an affair.

I watch porn and before my w lost most of her sex drive following child birth she watched it as well.

It seems from reading a lot on this site that some of those who object to porn are wanting to impose their standards on others.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I have a strong boundary for no porn in my marriage on my part or his, I wouldn't be with a guy who watched porn or thought in anyway it was ok. For my part its nothing to do with insecurity or jealousy, but wanting a husband who respects me and our marriage and values our intimacy. Wanting a husband who is faithful in mind as well as body.
You seem to think that he watches porn because he doesn't always tell the truth. It's hard to be married to a person who lies so it's hard to know if he is telling the truth, but you seem to have an idea that he is watching it.

The comments you have read elsewhere are probably people trying to justify their porn watching by claiming that spouses who didn't like it are insecure or jealous, nope not true. No more than those whose partners physically cheat are jealous or insecure for not liking it.
Sadly, its very common now, and that is why I have so much respect for the minority of guys who avoid it, being that with the internet anything goes now and it's so easy to find. It shows a strength of character and self-control and strong values not to go with the flow of the majority.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kput said:


> Silicone woman, sure there is a lot of that but the some of the most popular categories are amateurs and mature, the Barbie doll porn is somewhat boring.
> 
> A lot of of men want full spectrum sex with their partner and if that is not available they watch porn far better than them having an affair.
> 
> ...


I would never tell anyone they shouldn't or couldn't watch it, and I don't think anyone here does that. Despite how much proven damage it causes to the watcher, the spouse, the marriage and their children, everyone is free to make such choices if they choose to. A bit like choosing to smoke or take illegal drugs when you know how much damage they do. 
I would never tell a guy I was with he couldn't watch it, but I would tell him that he won't be with me if he does. His choice. If he then chooses the porn, I would know that we were very wrong for each other.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

So my way or the highway then.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

You are allowed to have standards. Decide what you can live with and go from there. You can’t control someone else, you can only control yourself. He will not change, so if you feel strongly about this it will be you who has to make the move. Don’t let others make you feel like you don’t deserve to have standards, and we get the treatment we allow.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kput said:


> So my way or the highway then.


Everyone had boundaries and standards in relationships or marriages, which is why its so important to marry someone who shares your values and boundaries. 
No different from you telling your spouse that if they cheat you are out. Or if they take illegal drugs you are leaving. Or if they are abusive the marriage will end.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Ask yourself what is the real reason you object to him watching porn and if that reason is due to your possible insecurities and not because you object to porn itself.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kput said:


> Ask yourself what is the real reason you object to him watching porn and if that reason is due to your possible insecurities and not because you object to porn itself.


Would you feel ok if your wife was to cheat? Many see porn as cheating, and it certainly is cheating of the mind. An EA is considered cheating by most with no physical touching.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Kput said:


> Ask yourself what is the real reason you object to him watching porn and if that reason is due to your possible insecurities and not because you object to porn itself.


It's kind of the same as the reason I don't want her to sleep with others or to be a nasty person or <whatever>. 

It's my choice who is in my life.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Kput said:


> So my way or the highway then.


Isn't this your stance? "Let me do whatever I want and if you don't like it, it's your problem, not mine"? Or do you feel that you should choose for yourself what is ok for you and then go find a partner who has the same values you do?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LillyBird said:


> Is this really such a problem, or a sign of issues within a relationship that need to be addressed?


Sometimes things are a problem if they are problem but other times things are not a problem if they’re not a problem.

In the case here I think the first question we need to ask is what exactly is the problem?

The second question that ties directly with the first question is is he actually watching porn??

If not, has he been showing any inclination that he wants to or do you have evidence that he has been on the down low?

Has he actually been sneaking off into the woodshed and sneaking a peak at silicone bodies?

Has he been watching porn and draining his tank to the point that he has no time or energy to give you the lovins you want/need? 

But if after 10 years of marriage he has NOT been watching it and has shown no interest in it and you have no evidence that he has been, but yet you’re going through his phone and watching him over his shoulder and are losing sleep over it and having this much distress over it, then maybe the issue is not really porn it’s self but something going on within you that is causing you this much distress.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

"Cheating of the mind" wow, well I live and learn, best not let my w know I find any other woman attractive.

I would still be interested if the porn itself is an issue or is it insecurities that need to be addressed together.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I would never tell a guy I was with he couldn't watch it, but I would tell him that he won't be with me if he does. His choice. If he then chooses the porn, I would know that we were very wrong for each other.





Kput said:


> So my way or the highway then.


Actually Diana7's position on this, regarding not wanting to carry on a relationship with someone, if they want to view porn is perfectly reasonable.

So just like you, she is free to choose for herself who she will or won't consensually have relationships with, for whatever reasons she feels are best for her.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Never said otherwise.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Kput said:


> "Cheating of the mind" wow, well I live and learn, best not let my w know I find any other woman attractive.
> 
> I would still be interested if the porn itself is an issue or is it insecurities that need to be addressed together.


It could be any number of reasons for not allowing porn, open relationships, or any other thing in my life.

This isn't hard to figure out.
I don't get to stamp my feet and pout because I don't get what I want.
I don't get to blame her <reasons> for her having boundaries and therefore I do what I want and justify it because <reasons>.

This is why you are being told the things you are in your own thread.
The view you have is wrong. Your understanding of interpersonal relations is wrong.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

007, don't altogether agree, exploring the "why* of things is a valuable exercise.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LillyBird said:


> . most comments addressing this were brutal and saying the concerned partner was jealous and insecure and needed therapy and their marriage was doomed... is this true? Is it so bad to be jealous?


The answer to this question lays in whether there is actually something to be jealous about or not. 

If porn is against your values and sensibilities and your partner is aware of that yet actually does it behind your back and causes problems, then it is legitimate to have an issue with that and take action against that.

But if that person is not doing anything and not giving any cause for suspicion or upset and you are having distress over thinking that they might and you are having compulsive and intrusive thoughts about it for no bona fide reason, then it IS an internal insecurity. 

There is such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If can happen that even if someone is not cheating or not watching porn, but if their partner is behaving in controlling and jealous and hostile manner and making frequent accusations and is frequently spying on and interrogating that person,,, That behavior can cause a break down in the relationship and can destroy the relationship itself even though their partner never actually did the activity to begin with.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Personal said:


> So just like you, she is free to choose for herself who she will or won't consensually have relationships with, for whatever reasons she feels are best for her.


Couldn't agree more.

But as a public service, a wife who is not aware of how the male mind works who rejects a decent guy based on that may find herself in a no-win. For instance - 



LillyBird said:


> (By the way, do men do this?! Like see a woman in the street and imagine having sex with her? The things I find on forums are surprising for me ) Okay sure, maybe on a rare occasion it is whatever - it would not bother me much, but the thought of it being regular is almost sickening for me.


The answer to this question is yes, almost without exception, for nearly every man from the day he reaches puberty to the day he dies. If he tells you he isn't doing it, chances are probably 9 out of 10 that he is lying to you to be kind. 

If you don't like porn, then find a man who doesn't use it - it your case, ever. You may find that difficult, but not impossible. If he is otherwise respectful about it, then perhaps Dan Savage's advice is better in the long run - he lies to you and you pretend to believe him. 

Having free will to make a decision is best augmented with good knowledge about the decision you're making.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Kput said:


> 007, don't altogether agree, exploring the "why* of things is a valuable exercise.


Sure, it is a valuable exercise, no doubt about that.
But you can't use that to justify not having the boundary in the first place.

OP should set and keep the boundaries and let her life/relationship stabilize. Once they are in a good place as a couple, they can start to explore the edges and the reasons for the boundaries if they both see a benefit in doing so.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Cletus said:


> The answer to this question is yes, almost without exception, for nearly every man from the day he reaches puberty to the day he dies. If he tells you he isn't doing it, chances are probably 9 out of 10 that he is lying to you to be kind.


You are wrong. There are plenty of men of integrity in the world who don't imagine having sex with every beautiful woman they see.

But how would either of us prove that point.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You are wrong. There are plenty of men of integrity in the world who don't imagine having sex with every beautiful woman they see.
> 
> But how would either of us prove that point.


I have no doubt that "plenty of" is accurate. Even if it were 0.1% of the US male population, that would mean > 150,000 of them. Personally, I have yet to meet one among all of the men I have a close enough relationship to know - and that includes engineers, doctors, blue collar workers. 

Let's be more precise. Most men probably don't imagine having sex with every beautiful woman they see every waking minute of the day. Perhaps not even every day. But often enough to be considered not infrequent for the vast majority. Nope, I cannot prove it. I'd start a poll here if I didn't think the discussion would turn into a complete cluster-f***.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You are wrong. There are plenty of men of integrity in the world who don't imagine having sex with every beautiful woman they see.


This is true. There are men that do not have day dreams of sex with every beautiful woman they see.

But those guys already have boyfriends and husbands.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You are wrong. There are plenty of men of integrity in the world who don't imagine having sex with every beautiful woman they see.


Well I don't know about that  but there are plenty of men who care enough about the women in their lives to make an effort not to hurt or humiliate them by being super obvious about it. It's normal and natural to be sexually attracted to young bodies, that doesn't excuse hateful behavior or mean that people can't have standards for how they are treated.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evolutionary biologist and anthropologist Dr Wednesday Martin talks about attractions and desires in a lot of her books and articles and podcasts.

She has an interesting way of describing how some of our secret desires and fantasies work- 

She says we are all biological sinners but try to portray ourselves as social saints in public. 

In other words we all have instinctive yearnings and desires deep in our psyches. But we learn to control and temper our urges so we can fit in and get along in society.


The great philosopher Butthead in Beavis and Butthead said it well also when he said, “Taking a dump comes naturally, but we have to learn to take a dump in the toilet.” 

That is actually a relevant analogy because we all need to take a dump at some point throughout the day. But rather than take a dump wherever we happen to be, we go to a restroom and flush it down the toilet so it does not offend others or cause a public health issue.

So is it with attractions and desires as well. We may find a variety of people attractive and a part of us may fantasize even if for a fleeting moment.

But we learn to control and manage our desires so as not to hurt or offend others and to be part of a polite society.

The only men that do not desire beautiful women already have boyfriends.

The only women that do not desire tall, fit, handsome, successful men of high social status already have girlfriends

The men and women that truly desire none are very very few if they even exist at all.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Evolutionary biologist and anthropologist Dr Wednesday Martin talks about attractions and desires in a lot of her books and articles and podcasts.
> 
> She has an interesting way of describing how some of our secret desires and fantasies work-
> 
> ...


Yet 'fitting in and getting along' in society today is to watch porn and let yourself lust after the opposite sex.50% apparently cheat as well so its the onee who go against the flow who focus their sexuality on their partner who are choosing not to fit in and get along in that society.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> This is true. There are men that do not have day dreams of sex with every beautiful woman they see.
> 
> But those guys already have boyfriends and husbands.


There you and cletus go again making rude and derogatory statements about the men who don't imagine sex with every attractive woman they meet or watch porn 'must be gay' nonsense. How arrogant of you both to assume that all men must do this because you do. Wrong. 
There are many who don't act that way, many more than you think.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cletus said:


> I have no doubt that "plenty of" is accurate. Even if it were 0.1% of the US male population, that would mean > 150,000 of them. Personally, I have yet to meet one among all of the men I have a close enough relationship to know - and that includes engineers, doctors, blue collar workers.
> 
> Let's be more precise. Most men probably don't imagine having sex with every beautiful woman they see every waking minute of the day. Perhaps not even every day. But often enough to be considered not infrequent for the vast majority. Nope, I cannot prove it. I'd start a poll here if I didn't think the discussion would turn into a complete cluster-f***.


So because the small number of men you are close to do a certain thing then all men must do it. The rest must be gay or asexual of course. How rude that is to the many who don't and choose to be different. We actually know many who dont and that is just the men we know.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You are wrong. There are plenty of men of integrity in the world who don't imagine having sex with every beautiful woman they see.
> 
> But how would either of us prove that point.


We can appreciate a fine view but don't imagine doing the horizontal mombo with each.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> There you and cletus go again making rude and derogatory statements ...


Cut the drama. There was absolutely nothing in any of what I said that was rude or derogatory.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> So because the small number of men you are close to do a certain thing then all men must do it. The rest must be gay or asexual of course. How rude that is to the many who don't and choose to be different. We actually know many who dont and that is just the men we know.


I didn't make ANY value judgment. Don't put words into my mouth.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> The only men that do not desire beautiful women already have boyfriends.


Would your expectations of all men lusting after beautiful women also apply to a man's mother, sister, and female in-laws?
Or is it ok to have discipline there?

You're softening the act to "desire" when the question was to "have sex with" <every woman they meet>.

There's room for healthy appreciation of the opposite sex and even curiosity about them as a mate without imagining them naked or on their knees.





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> We can appreciate a fine view but don't imagine doing the horizontal mombo with each.


There's also an age and maturity factor.

When I was a child I thought like a child, etc... I'm sure the cynics recognize the verse.

Men & Women _can_ control their own thoughts if they choose.
Claiming otherwise suggests biology overrides mental strength.
I don't buy that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> There are many who don't act that way, many more than you think.


Ahhh but this is the distinction - 

You are correct that many men, and I will go so far as to say 99.99999% of men, do not ACT that way. 

But I was not talking about how men act. I was talking about what their fleeting flights of fantasy are when they see a healthy and fertile woman. 

As I stated in my subsequent post, we all temper and control our behavior and actions to be part of society. 

To requote Dr Wednesday Martin, “We are all biological sinners but try to present as social saints.” 

Now to quote Oldshirt - Saints have the same fleeting thoughts, feelings and fantasies as sinners - they just don’t act on them.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Would your expectations of all men lusting after beautiful women also apply to a man's mother, sister, and female in-laws?
> Or is it ok to have discipline there?
> 
> You're softening the act to "desire" when the question was to "have sex with" <every woman they meet>.
> ...


Discipline and control are what is keeping society from eating each other and going all Darwin every 15 so yes, discipline is critical for the survival of civilization.

In regards to your incest reference, that is also delt with in our biology as well. Most people have an innate sexual repulsion towards sexuality with siblings and close relatives. 

We are more innately drawn towards novel members of the opposite sex and those that are from more distant tribes than us. 

And let’s try to not make attraction and desire as something dirty and wrong. Attractions and desires and feelings of desire mean that we are alive and healthy and vital. 

Do you know which population does not have attraction and desire? - THE DEAD. 

Without attraction and desire, life itself comes to an end on planet earth.

This isn’t something dirty or bad. It’s vital and necessary if life and our species is to continue. 

That doesn’t mean running amok. It doesn’t mean raping and pillaging and doing things without consent or reckless or harmful.

But to feel desire is good. It means you are alive and human. It means that you appreciate the life and humanity in others.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Your honor: As proof of my position, I offer into evidence the following meme.










I rest my case.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Discipline and control are what is keeping society from eating each other and going all Darwin every 15 so yes, discipline is critical for the survival of civilization.
> 
> In regards to your incest reference, that is also delt with in our biology as well. Most people have an innate sexual repulsion towards sexuality with siblings and close relatives.
> 
> ...


Keying in on the OP's question "Does every guy see a woman on the street and want to have sex with her".

I am saying in me and assuming in others, the word "want" is controlled and biological attraction between males and females does not immediately turn into a desire for sex with strangers (or familiars actually).

It sounds like you and others are saying there is no control and biological attraction immediately becomes sexual desire for women they meet on the street.

I disagree with that. I think we are more than a product of our genes and have some control over what becomes actionable in our lives.

If we're talking about biology then the same should be true of women. They want to have sex with every handsome man on the street that they meet. I disagree with this also, for the same reasons.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> It sounds like you and others are saying there is no control and biological attraction immediately becomes sexual desire for women they meet on the street.


Maybe we're quibbling over terms.

I am saying that biological attraction and desire are too intertwined to separate. If I see a beautiful woman on the street, it doesn't mean that I immediately start trying to concoct ways of getting her into the bedroom. It doesn't mean that I get an erection, or engage in a long fantasy about our not-for-prime-time-sexual-escapades.

It means that I might say to myself "under the right circumstances, I could see myself having sex with that woman, and enjoying it". Then definitely NOT turning around for another look, and NOT making my partner in any way aware of this fleeting thought.

Edit: I'm also pretty sure that I have no interest in mentally policing myself over decades to erase a perfectly natural and useful evolutionary thought. I'm defined by what I DO.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> It sounds like you and others are saying there is no control and biological attraction immediately becomes sexual desire for women they meet on the street.
> 
> I disagree with that. I think we are more than a product of our genes and have some control over what becomes actionable in our lives.


Let’s go back and reread what I have actually written instead of jumping to conclusions on what you think I wrote.

If you actually read what I wrote you will see that in multiple post I said that people DO control their impulses and actions and that it is critical for people to control their urges in a civilized society.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

LillyBird said:


> .......The one thing *I am not okay with is porn*. To me, *it is fantasizing about being with another, probably better looking woman etc*. (By the way, do men do this?! Like see a woman in the street and imagine having sex with her?
> 
> ...... He knows I don't like it and denies watching it, I have looked in his phone a couple of times - which was always going to be fruitless given incognito mode anyway.
> 
> ...


First of all as you can tell by now "Porn watching by husbands" is a hot button item among a number of TAM members.

I would like to complement you on your introspection and self knowledge. I think you are looking for reasoned advice, so I will try to add my perspective. The words you have posted say a lot to me.

There is porn and then there is porn. By that I mean *Rule 34 of the Internet states: If it exists there IS porn of it. *I think that is a pretty true statement. What that means is that some porn shows the image of respectful and consensual sex among lovers. Some porn portrays violent, degrading sex. Some porn may involve animals, multiple people, humiliation, or physical violence. So I would say that some porn probably does psychological damage to those that make and watch it. Other porn, not so much. When TAM members strongly object to "porn" and others don't, they may have different versions of porn.

In your post *you state*, ".......* fantasizing about being with another, probably better looking woman etc*....*Nudity in films etc. is absolutely fine*, but *watching somebody have sex with a half-silicone woman and getting off to it really bothers me.*..." So I am going to assume that the type of "porn" we are talking about is what one might consider "normal (whatever that means) sex, but with an better looking or surgically augmented woman. I am glad you don't object to some nudity, although even the US Supreme Court has struggled with what is the limits of artistic nudity versus porn. Viewing a Las Vegas Cirque du Soleil, versus a strip club act might be a bit subtle for some, 

If your definition of porn you are objecting to is sex with a better looking woman or a woman surgically augmented, then I think that definition goes to the heart of your statement about insecurity.

I think porn is a problem in marriage, if it interferes with a couple's ability to have sex. Let me give you some examples of where I would see porn as a problem. If the husband would rather watch porn or masturbate than make love to his wife who wants him to make love to her. If the person watching porn develops unrealistic expectations of what is normal loving sex and expects their partner to do things they don't want to do. If a person become desensitized to the type of sex they had with their partner prior to porn watching and needs more extreme sex to become aroused.

I am a big fan of Aristotle; moderation in everything. I don't see a "little bit of porn watching" as destroying a marriage, this is based on your (and my shared) definition of "porn."

I don't masturbate when I occasionally watch porn. I also don't watch it day and night. I don't fantasize over having sex with every pretty woman I see walking down the street. In fact, my wife of over 51 years is the woman I want to have sex with. Yes, her 72 year-old body is not what it once was, but I love her and so I love her body.

Again, I think your words have analyzed you feelings well. I would like to paraphrase Dr. David Schnarch. He said that there is no right amount of chocolate ice cream after dinner, right amount of watching football on the weekend, or right amount of sex in a marriage. He feels that the "right" amount is negotiated among the two parties to the marriage. I would like to expand that to that there is no right amount of porn within a marriage, it is something that is different for each couple, has to be negotiated and may even change over the course of a marriage, just like chocolate ice cream for after dinner, or the amount and kind of sex.

Good luck. Trust your own instincts and values. And really sit down and talk to your husband. There is no right answer, each marriage is different, and what works for your marriage needs to be agreed to by both.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Kput said:


> So my way or the highway then.


Of course, and what is wrong with that? I'm sure you do it too. If your spouse insisted on a open marriage would you just accept it or send her packing?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

OP in the end it's what you are prepared to put up with. If you find out for sure that he watches porn then it's your decision as to whether you will accept him on those terms or not.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Kput said:


> Ask yourself what is the real reason you object to him watching porn and if that reason is due to your possible insecurities and not because you object to porn itself.


Again, so what if it comes from personal insecurities. If the person can't tolerate it, then they are free to break off the relationship. I don't want my wife going out clubbing on a GNO at the local meat market night club. That may come from personal insecurities on my part, but again what does the source matter? It is my boundary. You only have to live with it if you want to be with me.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Of course, and what is wrong with that? I'm sure you do it too. If your spouse insisted on a open marriage would you just accept it or send her packing?


It's about having boundaries and keeping to them isn't it. Far too many people come to TAM who have boundaries but who are afraid to stand up for them if their spouses don't. Personally, I won't put up with any nonsense like that. Its SOOO important to find a person who shares your values and never to compromise on that. Never settle for second best.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That may come from personal insecurities on my part, but again what does the source matter? It is my boundary. You only have to live with it if you want to be with me.


I always fully agree with this statement and I am never fully comfortable with it.

I think the source does matter. Perhaps this comes from living with a parent with schizophrenia, but placing boundaries on a spouse that have absolutely no basis in fact, while within a person's rights, should not get carte blanche treatment.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cletus said:


> I didn't make ANY value judgment. Don't put words into my mouth.


You said, 
'The answer to this question is yes, almost without exception, for nearly every man from the day he reaches puberty to the day he dies. If he tells you he isn't doing it, chances are probably 9 out of 10 that he is lying to you to be kind.'

So you claim that many men are also liars if they say they don't watch porn. Maybe they just dont?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cletus said:


> I always fully agree with this statement and I am never fully comfortable with it.
> 
> I think the source does matter. Perhaps this comes from living with a parent with schizophrenia, but placing boundaries on a spouse that have absolutely no basis in fact, while within a person's rights, should not get carte blanche treatment.


So you have no boundaries in a marriage? 

At least you haven't said that all men who don't do these things are gay.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> So you have no boundaries in a marriage?


I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote.

Of course I have boundaries in my marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Amazing that many men who watch porn and lust after loads of women and imagine having sex with them has to believe that all men are exactly the same as them or must be gay. I have no idea why unless its insecurity or guilt? They must believe that all men do it so its ok in their minds. Its total nonsense and very offensive to those men who choose to live differently. Just as all women are different so are men.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Amazing that many men who watch porn and lust after loads of women and imagine having sex with them has to believe that all men are exactly the same as them or must be gay. I have no idea why unless its insecurity or guilt? They must believe that all men do it so its ok in their minds. Its total nonsense and very offensive to those men who choose to live differently. Just as all women are different so are men.


These are also the same men who think that they have to keep their wives under constant surveillance. There is a reason they believe all women cheat.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cletus said:


> I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote.
> 
> Of course I have boundaries in my marriage.





Cletus said:


> I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote.
> 
> Of course I have boundaries in my marriage.


You answered a post about each of us having boundaries and sticking to them. You said you weren't comfortable with that statement. No one has to give detailed reasons why they have that boundary, it's just there and its another's decision whether they are ok with it or not.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Cletus said:


> I always fully agree with this statement and I am never fully comfortable with it.
> 
> I think the source does matter. Perhaps this comes from living with a parent with schizophrenia, but placing boundaries on a spouse that have absolutely no basis in fact, while within a person's rights, should not get carte blanche treatment.


That makes sense, but obviously an extreme case. Mental illness will skew the person's perception of everything. So, maybe a qualifier of, barring any mental illness...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> You answered a post about each of us having boundaries and sticking to them. You said you weren't comfortable with that statement. No one has to give detailed reasons why they have that boundary, it's just there and its another's decision whether they are ok with it or not.


I said that just feeling a certain way _might_ not be a _reasonable_ boundary. The "I just feel that way" defense is insufficient.

If my spouse decides that I can never use a computer because they fear I'll have an online affair, even if I have never given them any reason to expect such an outcome is likely, then that is an unreasonable boundary. They have every right to impose that boundary, since they are free agents. I have every right to push back on such a boundary as unreasonable and decide if I can live with it. That does not make it more reasonable.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That makes sense, but obviously an extreme case. Mental illness will skew the person's perception of everything. So, maybe a qualifier of, barring any mental illness...


Well, more above. See what you think.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> You answered a post about each of us having boundaries and sticking to them. You said you weren't comfortable with that statement. No one has to give detailed reasons why they have that boundary, it's just there and its another's decision whether they are ok with it or not.


They also have to realize that boundaries limit which partners will work for them. There is nothing wrong with having a boundary, but you have to be reasonable. 

Problems seem to arise arise when people expect to have their OWN list of "musts" and refuse to realize that they are not entitled to select any partner they want and force that person to conform to that list.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> They also have to realize that boundaries limit which partners will work for them. There is nothing wrong with having a boundary, but you have to be reasonable.


This is all I'm saying. 

If you limit your partner choices to men who, under the influence of a lie detector and sodium pentathol can honestly state that they never look at an attractive woman and think about sex with her, that is your choice.

Is it reasonable? I don't know. It's your boundary, so I suppose for you it's reasonable. I wouldn't dream of telling you your choices are wrong here. It probably immediately disqualifies a lot of potentially good husbands with a robust enough sex drive to keep you happy. For those not required to take the pre-nuptial lie detector test, it is also probably encouraging a ton of lying on the part of men to pass muster. 

The implicit condescension by some that a man who cannot pass this test isn't worth wasting spit on is duly noted.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Amazing that many men who watch porn and lust after loads of women and imagine having sex with them has to believe that all men are exactly the same as them or must be gay. I have no idea why unless its insecurity or guilt? They must believe that all men do it so its ok in their minds. Its total nonsense and very offensive to those men who choose to live differently. Just as all women are different so are men.


I think you’re getting a little carried away here and doing your best to making it into something dirty and bad.

No one saying people are plotting to rape and pillage the village at sundown.

Some of us are saying it’s perfectly normal and natural and even healthy to see an attractive person (attractive being dependent on one’s orientation and preference) and have a fleeting moment of attraction and desire. 

It doesn’t mean anyone is plotting on how to get them into bed or that they are going to try to score or cheat on their partner or anything. It means they noticed their charms and had a moment of wistful fantasy and then went back to what they were doing. 

You’re getting carried away to the point of making yourself look like you are having an internal struggle within yourself that is making you lash out in judgment and condemnation of others.

It’s ok for you to have your own attractions and desires as well. It’s ok for you see an attractive, successful man (or woman) and feel a little flutter or a little more alive in your soul. That doesn’t mean you want to cheat on your husband. It doesn’t mean you want to approach this guy (or gal) and hit on him. It doesn’t mean you want to actually do anything.

It means you are alive and that you are still a living and vital woman. It’s ok to be human and have normal human feelings and responses.

That doesn’t make you any less of a faithful wife. It doesn’t make you any less of a Christian. Jesus won’t love you or accept you any less because you have a normal human reaction to another attractive human. Jesus was a man of flesh and blood and had his temptations too, he gets it.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Cletus said:


> Maybe we're quibbling over terms.
> 
> I am saying that biological attraction and desire are too intertwined to separate. If I see a beautiful woman on the street, it doesn't mean that I immediately start trying to concoct ways of getting her into the bedroom. It doesn't mean that I get an erection, or engage in a long fantasy about our not-for-prime-time-sexual-escapades.
> 
> ...


Maybe it is a matter of terms.

The OP's question was about how men think about a woman they meet on the street. Do they " _imagine having sex with her?_ ". In that specific question, my answer is "No". And your comment above seems to agree with that. You don't "_get an erection, or engage in a long fantasy about our not-for-prime-time-sexual-escapades._" and you don't "_start trying to concoct ways of getting her into the bedroom_"

So we agree, at least marginally.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I didn't slog through all the comments. I know you'll get plenty that say don't worry about it and all men do it.

My husband doesn't and I wouldn't stick around if he did regular. I'm not leaving if I find him doing it once but I wouldn't tolerate it either.

I am sexually available to my husband most anytime he desires.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I don’t see the issue here as whether it is ok for him to watch porn or not.

I think the real question here is whether he is even watching it AT ALL or whether she is having an issue with something that may not even be taking place.

She has not even said that he has in fact been watching it. 

She’s been bugging him about it. She has been snooping through his phone for it.

And she has been having an issue that guys might think unholy thoughts when they see a good looking woman.

But she has not actually said that he has in fact been watching it. 

I don’t think the concern here is whether porn is ok or not.

My concern is whether she is having some kind of emotional or relational problem for which there isn’t any actual porn viewing taking place.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I didn't slog through all the comments. I know you'll get plenty that say don't worry about it and all men do it.
> 
> My husband doesn't and I wouldn't stick around if he did regular. I'm not leaving if I find him doing it once but I wouldn't tolerate it either.
> 
> I am sexually available to my husband most anytime he desires.


#goals

(I still haven't had the courage to order that thing you told me about.)


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> #goals
> 
> (I still haven't had the courage to order that thing you told me about.)


What might that thing be? Share please


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I think you’re getting a little carried away here and doing your best to making it into something dirty and bad.
> 
> No one saying people are plotting to rape and pillage the village at sundown.
> 
> ...


What you are saying has changed and been toned down since you were challenged on it.
Before it was 'all men fantasize about having sex with the attractive women they see and watch porn or they must be gay.' which was clearly very wrong and very offensive. We know many men who are normal red-blooded guys who just happen to go against the flow yet to you they don't exist. Or they must be attracted to men instead.

Now you have toned it down a little thankfully as it was very offensive to decent guys like Mr D and many others who chooses to be different yet are happily married men who have no interest whatsoever in guys.

We are not animals, we can choose what to look at and think about and dwell on. We can choose where our mind goes and what we spend our time doing and seeing.

As for your strange ideas about myself, honestly just laughable, but then you don't know me so that's not surprising really.
Mr D is honestly the only man I am interested in. If I see a good-looking guy I may just think 'he is good looking' but I pass by and the thought is gone. I don't dwell on him.

Porn is just so damaging. I myself know 2 marriages that ended because if it. Its cited in more than half of all divorces now. It's so sad.
That's why I am so against it, because of the damage it does.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

LillyBird said:


> Hello! I have been with my partner for 10 years, we have 2 beautiful children together and generally have a very easy-going and loving relationship. The one thing I am not okay with is porn. To me, it is fantasizing about being with another, probably better looking woman etc. (By the way, do men do this?! Like see a woman in the street and imagine having sex with her? The things I find on forums are surprising for me ) Okay sure, maybe on a rare occasion it is whatever - it would not bother me much, but the thought of it being regular is almost sickening for me. He knows I don't like it and denies watching it, I have looked in his phone a couple of times - which was always going to be fruitless given incognito mode anyway. No part of me ever wants to read messages, know his location etc. but I would 110% want to know if he watching porn and what it was. Nudity in films etc. is absolutely fine, but watching somebody have sex with a half-silicone woman and getting off to it really bothers me.
> 
> I searched this issue I have to find that it seemed uncommon... most comments addressing this were brutal and saying the concerned partner was jealous and insecure and needed therapy and their marriage was doomed... is this true? Is it so bad to be jealous?
> 
> ...


1. Many women have issues with their partner watching porn. And many don’t. But you’re not part of some fringe minority, and it’s OK to be uncomfortable with porn in your marriage.
Additionally, there is a plenty of research suggesting that heavy porn use is psychologically and physiologically detrimental to men.
2. Given your reference to better looking women and “half silicone women“ - is this about your husband watching other women have sex (and potentially fantasizing about them), or is it more about your husband watching and potentially fantasizing about other women *who are more attractive than you*?
If it’s the former, then it’s a valid expectation you have for your marriage. If it’s the latter, it may be more of an insecurity issue.
3. Unless I missed it, I didn’t see anywhere that you mentioned having any evidence that your husband is watching porn.
So if he says he doesn’t watch it, and you have no evidence or probable cause to suggest that he’s watching it, why are you obsessing on this?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> What you are saying has changed and been toned down since you were challenged on it.
> Before it was 'all men fantasize about having sex with the attractive women they see and watch porn or they must be gay.' which was clearly very wrong and very offensive. We know many men who are normal red-blooded guys who just happen to go against the flow yet to you they don't exist. Or they must be attracted to men instead.
> 
> Now you have toned it down a little thankfully as it was very offensive to decent guys like Mr D and many others who chooses to be different yet are happily married men who have no interest whatsoever in guys.
> ...


I didn’t say anything about all men watching porn, and I certainly didn’t say that men that don’t watch porn are gay. 

Those are your words not mine.

I said that men that see a beautiful and do not have any brief moments of some kind of desirous feelings or fantasy or whatever you want to call it are either gay or dead.

In fact I’d be willing to bet that even a significant percentage of men that identify as gay still get at least a little bit of disturbance in the force when they see a beautiful woman. A lot of straight women probably do as well. 

Again, that doesn’t make any bad or inappropriate. It just means people are alive.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I said that men that see a beautiful and do not have any brief moments of some kind of desirous feelings or fantasy or whatever you want to call it are either gay or dead.


This is much more appropriate and I don’t disagree.

Men who see _subjectively_ beautiful women may indeed have feelings of desire under the right circumstances. That’s a long way from all men imagining having sex with every woman they meet on the street.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> This is much more appropriate and I don’t disagree.
> 
> Men who see _subjectively_ beautiful women may indeed have feelings of desire under the right circumstances. That’s a long way from all men imagining having sex with every woman they meet on the street.


If you look back through my posts you will see that I have clearly differentiated between fleeting feelings and actually acting on them.

Diana is saying that Cletus and some of the others and I are saying things that we did not say.

I have taken effort to state that people do not always act on their feelings and thoughts.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If you look back through my posts you will see that I have clearly differentiated between fleeting feelings and actually acting on them.


I know what you’ve been saying. “Acting on them” was never part of the disagreement, for obvious reasons. Saying “fleeting feelings” now however, is way different than this:



oldshirt said:


> This is true. There are men that do not have day dreams of sex with every beautiful woman they see.
> 
> But those guys already have boyfriends and husbands.


This was what I took issue with. But we seem to be aligning now.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> This was what I took issue with. But we seem to be aligning now.


Obviously that was a tongue in cheek comment.

But there’s also a lot of truth to it. 

If a man is heterosexual, he is going to experience a certain degree of “feelings” when he encounters a beautiful woman. It may only be one second’s worth of a fleeting moment of sensation and then back to his business and forgotten a minute later. 

But obviously there are people that feel very threatened by that and see it as some kind of depravity and predatorial encroachment. 

Men and women both will experience these fleeting moments many times a day if they are out and about. 

It doesn’t mean they’re cheaters, it doesn’t mean they are predators, it doesn’t mean they are on the prowl. It means they are human.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Kput said:


> Cheating of the mind" wow, well I live and learn, best not let my w know I find any other woman attractive.


Attractive is not the issue...if you start jerking off while fantasizing/lusting about this woman, that is considered same as adultry in the Bible.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Obviously that was a tongue in cheek comment.
> 
> But there’s also a lot of truth to it.
> 
> ...


One can see a woman walk by and think, "She has a nice ass", and not be thinking how you would like to tap that ass.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well I don't know about that  but there are plenty of men who care enough about the women in their lives to make an effort not to hurt or humiliate them by being super obvious about it. It's normal and natural to be sexually attracted to young bodies, that doesn't excuse hateful behavior or mean that people can't have standards for how they are treated.


One can see a person of opposite sex and think "They are attractive/built and not start undressing them with your eyes" It is where the glance turns into a gaze, that is where lines are crossed.

My wife knows she does it for me. And I her. When we fantasize, we are the actors in that fantasy. 

It is funny, I guess I have a tire fetish. LOL I constantly look at tires. Most likely a guy thing, or more women would know to put air in tires. I can have a Jeep of hot girls in 👙 pull up and I am checking out her tires to see what kind of mud grips she has on the Jeep. Probably tell her if by the wear pattern, she needs to get them rotated or if one needs air.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Again, so what if it comes from personal insecurities. If the person can't tolerate it, then they are free to break off the relationship. I don't want my wife going out clubbing on a GNO at the local meat market night club. That may come from personal insecurities on my part, but again what does the source matter? It is my boundary. You only have to live with it if you want to be with me.


To me it would be severely disrespectful to you, same way, I would not go on a BNO as I see it as disrespectful to my wife. If she wants to disrespect me like that, I will terminate the relationship.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> One can see a woman walk by and think, "She has a nice ass", and not be thinking how you would like to tap that ass.


Yep that is true. On the other hand one can also see a woman walk by and think they would like to share sex with her.

That said, there are some occasions when I see women, and I immediately think I would like to share sex with them. And for what it's worth my wife, also sometimes sees men who she thinks she would like to share sex with as well.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Porn is just like any other "vice" taken to extremes it can cause damage same as alcohol.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cletus said:


> I have no doubt that "plenty of" is accurate. Even if it were 0.1% of the US male population, that would mean > 150,000 of them. Personally, I have yet to meet one among all of the men I have a close enough relationship to know - and that includes engineers, doctors, blue collar workers.
> 
> Let's be more precise. Most men probably don't imagine having sex with every beautiful woman they see every waking minute of the day. Perhaps not even every day. But often enough to be considered not infrequent for the vast majority. Nope, I cannot prove it. I'd start a poll here if I didn't think the discussion would turn into a complete cluster-f***.


This. Right here.

OP, I certainly understand you not wanting your husband to view porn. That is a very reasonable boundary. However, to be upset if your husband has a thought of having sex with a beautiful woman he sees out in the world for just a fraction of second is unreasonable. Like Cletus said, that is just the male mind. Sure, I bet there are some out there that don't imagine having sex with the beautiful woman they saw walking down the street.... but I would bet most men do. Assuming he loves you, it is a fleeting thought and means nothing. If you all have a very good intimate relationship, more than likely he fantasizes about you in his mind.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't fantasize about women if they were all dressed like they do in the Middle East. And if women won't consider that and rather instead try to feminize us and reprogram men's brain, then they can all booger off!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I'm pretty sure I wouldn't fantasize about women if they were all dressed like they do in the Middle East. And if women won't consider that and rather instead try to feminize us and reprogram men's brain, then they can all booger off!


Well there ya go, problem solved.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If you search "porn" in advanced search on this forum and then check the "titles only" box, you will come up with 500 topics where porn has been destructive to marriages, so it's not unreasonable to object to it. You should look at some of those instead of getting skewered by the porn die-hards on here. There's only 500 listed because that's the max a search can return. It's a good part of the content on this site. It is destructive to a lot of marriages for a multitude of reasons.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well there ya go, problem solved.


Or dress like hookers and we will think of you as such. It is what it is.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Or dress like hookers and we will think of you as such. It is what it is.


I would have imagined there was something in between, rather than it being a binary choice, but what do I know, I'm just a woman.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you search "porn" in advanced search on this forum and then check the "titles only" box, you will come up with 500 topics where porn has been destructive to marriages, so it's not unreasonable to object to it. You should look at some of those instead of getting skewered by the porn die-hards on here. There's only 500 listed because that's the max a search can return. It's a good part of the content on this site. It is destructive to a lot of marriages for a multitude of reasons.


It is destructive unless it's a dead bedroom marriage anyways... then it's already been dedtroyed by the denier.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> It is destructive unless it's a dead bedroom marriage anyways... then it's already been dedtroyed by the denier.


Or the demander.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Or the demander.


God Forbid, a husband expect to have regular sex with his wife... More toxic masculinity.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> It is destructive unless it's a dead bedroom marriage anyways... then it's already been dedtroyed by the denier.


In a good number of marriages, it's the husband who is the denier and his porn addiction (or overuse) is the cause.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Porn addicts often develop issues that make it harder for them to function in real sex.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> In a good number of marriages, it's the husband who is the denier and his porn addictions (or over use) is the cause.


EXACTLY. That was how it was for my EX...HE was the one who didn't want any sex with me, because he preferred porn and masturbation over real sex.

Although I will say that if he had been willing to have regular sex with me, then I wouldn't have minded if he watched porn.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> God Forbid, a husband expect to have regular sex with his wife... More toxic masculinity.


Well, you were who blamed the women first, so any toxicity calling started with you against women.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

LillyBird said:


> Hello! I have been with my partner for 10 years, we have 2 beautiful children together and generally have a very easy-going and loving relationship. The one thing I am not okay with is porn. To me, it is fantasizing about being with another, probably better looking woman etc. (By the way, do men do this?! Like see a woman in the street and imagine having sex with her? The things I find on forums are surprising for me ) Okay sure, maybe on a rare occasion it is whatever - it would not bother me much, but the thought of it being regular is almost sickening for me. He knows I don't like it and denies watching it, I have looked in his phone a couple of times - which was always going to be fruitless given incognito mode anyway. No part of me ever wants to read messages, know his location etc. but I would 110% want to know if he watching porn and what it was. Nudity in films etc. is absolutely fine, but watching somebody have sex with a half-silicone woman and getting off to it really bothers me.
> 
> I searched this issue I have to find that it seemed uncommon... most comments addressing this were brutal and saying the concerned partner was jealous and insecure and needed therapy and their marriage was doomed... is this true? Is it so bad to be jealous?
> 
> ...


I am not sure if this OP is ever coming back, but I will answer generally anyway...

I believe that as with everything in relationships and even life, the answer to your question depends on the individual circumstances for each situation and couple and person. 

But from what you wrote here about YOU, I think the answer is YES, your feelings are a sign of some painful issues that you should be aware of and try to overcome. It sounds like the problem you have with porn IS from your own insecurities, and those feelings and your "jealousy" are bad for you. It's like you have a faulty alarm system, that is going off for things that aren't any threat or danger to you or your relationship. And over time, those insecurities are going to build up and really hurt you, and could hurt the connection you have with your husband.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

This is a very good, clear and condensed summary from AllProDad site.








The Effects of Porn on Marriage - All Pro Dad


Pornography is the number one temptation facing all men. The effects of porn on marriage are widespread and devastating.




www.allprodad.com




.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> In a good number of marriages, it's the husband who is the denier and his porn addiction (or overuse) is the cause.


Define a good number, because I really don't think it is as large as everyone on here seem to want to believe. Just like all addicts, they are a small percentage of the population. I certainly wouldn't define a recreational user of porn as an addict. So while some may fall neatly into this category, I don't think it is that great a number. I would wager most porn addicts are borne out of a dead bedroom. And they aren't even really addicts if they had a willing partner.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I would wager most porn addicts are borne out of a dead bedroom. And they aren't even really addicts if they had a willing partner.


WRONG.
Most dead bedrooms produce porn USERS, and those men are usually resentful that they need porn when they should be able to have sex with their partners. 

The men who replace their partners with porn (they aren't all "addicts") are choosing the porn and masturbation over a real, live, WILLING woman. We had several threads from women in that situation over the past several months, and it happened exactly that way to me. 

IT'S REAL. There are lonely women in dead bedrooms because their husbands prefer porn (for any number of reasons).


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Define a good number, because I really don't think it is as large as everyone on here seem to want to believe. Just like all addicts, they are a small percentage of the population. I certainly wouldn't define a recreational user of porn as an addict. So while some may fall neatly into this category, I don't think it is that great a number. I would wager most porn addicts are borne out of a dead bedroom. And they aren't even really addicts if they had a willing partner.


I question the productiveness of turning a discussion about marital issues and porn into a women v men discussion. In reality, I would imagine marital problems are caused by dozens of little things that each partner does, of course with exceptions here and there. He said/she said probably won't yield many solutions.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I question the productiveness of turning a discussion about marital issues and porn into a women v men discussion. In reality, I would imagine marital problems are caused by dozens of little things that each partner does, of course with exceptions here and there. He said/she said probably won't yield many solutions.


But it is that by nature as PORN USERS = MEN.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> But it is that by nature as PORN USERS = MEN.


Not always. Several of us women on here use porn occasionally. There was a thread a little while back about a woman who let it take over her marriage to the point where she wasn't having sex with her husband, just masturbating all day. (Literally all day, it was wild) I will concede that women seem to be more concerned about it, or at the very least more vocal about their concerns about it. Men may be bothered by it (or not), but in either case are likely less inclined to share their concerns lest they be interpreted as insecurity. But I see your point, and this thread is specifically about a woman being concerned with porn. So I concede that you are right and I am wrong.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TexasMom1216 said:


> These are also the same men who think that they have to *keep their wives under constant surveillance. There is a reason they believe all women cheat.*


I am sorry, but the generalization is not true for me. I sometimes watched "porn." Actually, as a 73 year old man, I like to watch "soft core" porn photo's (not video's) of women that are close to may age, are a little overweight, and remind me of my wife. It does not get in the way of my wanting to have sex with my wife.

Right now my wife has a (hopefully) temporary medical condition which makes us having sex painful and difficult for her. She has gotten a doctor's referral for physical therapy to help. My sex drive has always been much higher than that of my wife and we have struggled over the length of our marriage over mismatched libidos. We came close to divorce because of this a little over a decade ago.

I am not constantly thinking my wife is cheating, nor do I feel I need to keep her under surveillance. In fact, I have been encouraging her to get massage therapy prior to her deciding to go in for physical therapy.

Again, I think that *some* are triggered by the "word porn" and their triggered response is much like being emotionally flooded. The Gottman's taught me that when a person get's emotionally flooded, that their adreneline kicks in to the point that it makes them go into fight or flight mode and that it is hard for them in that triggered state to calmly and rationally discuss the topic that triggered them. 

I have no idea if you or others are triggered by the word "porn" but I don't view it as harmful or horrible as you seem to view it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> I am sorry, but the generalization is not true for me. I sometimes watched "porn." Actually, as a 73 year old man, I like to watch "soft core" porn photo's (not video's) of women that are close to may age, are a little overweight, and remind me of my wife. It does not get in the way of my wanting to have sex with my wife.
> 
> Right now my wife has a (hopefully) temporary medical condition which makes us having sex painful and difficult for her. She has gotten a doctor's referral for physical therapy to help. My sex drive has always been much higher than that of my wife and we have struggled over the length of our marriage over mismatched libidos. We came close to divorce because of this a little over a decade ago.
> 
> ...


If the “generalization” does not apply to you, then it… doesn’t apply to you. Much as the accusations and statements you made about me don’t apply to me. I was clearly talking about a subset of men, I did not say “all men,” I was specific to certain men and had an identical post been made by oh, any other poster, you would not have “misunderstood.”


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Porn is just so damaging. I myself know 2 marriages that ended because if it. Its cited in more than half of all divorces now. It's so sad.
> That's why I am so against it, because of the damage it does.


That has got to be BS. Most divorces are labelled as irreconcilable differences...meaning your guess is as good as mine. I've never seen porn as a reason in any surveys or its way down the bottom of the list. Unless you are lumping porn in with extramarital affairs which is ridiculous.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

^^^^^^^^^ what he said


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> .....We know many men who are normal red-blooded guys who just happen to go against the flow yet to you they don't exist.
> 
> ......We are not animals, we can choose what to look at and think about and dwell on. We can choose where our mind goes and what we spend our time doing and seeing.
> 
> ...


For you and your H you have a reasoned set of beliefs.

I am very curious as to it being cited in *more than half of all divorces now.* The reason that strikes me as odd, is that most divorces, I am aware of are under "no fault" clauses of irreconcilable differences. I have not seen any court data base on reasons for divorce. Perhaps there are surveys that give the reasons. 

When I Googled causes of divorce, I found not that said "porn" was a major cause of divorce, let alone being cited in over half of all divorces.

10 most common causes of divorce

11 most common causes of divorce

13 causes of divorce

Unless you view "porn" as an addiction, an infidelity, or a source of lies that destroys trust, I would be surprised it is the cause of half the divorces.

I will play devil's advocate for a moment in what I read recently:



> Drs. John & Julie Gottman state in An Open Letter on Porn, “Pornography can also lead to a decrease in relationship trust and a higher likelihood of affairs outside the relationship. Many porn sites now offer an escalation of sexual activity beyond simply viewing porn that includes actually having sex with other individuals.” Well-known as researchers and psychologists who focus on relationship issues, the Gottmans recognize the negative impact of porn use on marriages. It breaks trust in the relationship and can be viewed as cheating by the non-porn-using spouse.
> 
> ........FightTheNewDrug.org cites a 2014 study by Szymanski & Stewart-Richardson, that states, “Despite porn’s promise of improving consumers’ sex lives, research shows that consuming porn is associated with decreased sexual satisfaction.” The Gottmans agree. They found in their research that increased porn usage creates a supernormal stimulus. In layman’s terms, as I understand it, this means that it’s harder to find sexual satisfaction with your partner through normal sex after repeated exposure to porn.


I do believe that porn addiction can be a cause for divorce.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Define a good number, because I really don't think it is as large as everyone on here seem to want to believe. Just like all addicts, they are a small percentage of the population. I certainly wouldn't define a recreational user of porn as an addict. So while some may fall neatly into this category, I don't think it is that great a number. I would wager most porn addicts are borne out of a dead bedroom. And they aren't even really addicts if they had a willing partner.


This is anecdotal of course, but I do consider myself self to have been addicted to porn. I still struggle with it at times. It did not come from a dead bedroom, not even close. 

If I'm honest with myself, there are times in the past where I chose porn over a potential opportunity for sex with my wife. This was maybe 10+ years ago. It was the easy way out. I didn't have to deal with getting one of my kids out of our bed, or didn't need to work at getting my wife turned on, etc. Porn was just so easy. Lucky for me that my drive was high enough that I was still satisfying my wife. For the most part. I throw that caveat in because from discussions with my wife about sex in recent years, I found out there were times where she may have been masturbating at nearly the same time I was spanking it to porn. That was painful to hear. I felt so stupid, foolish, lazy and selfish. Yeah, we were still having sex several times a week, but why would I chose to trade sex with my wife for solo masturbation to some fake crap on the internet? I can easily see how some guys could get totally sucked into it and end up replacing their real sex life with a fake virtual sex life.

Then there is the issue of the porn creating very unrealistic expectations for their sex life with their wife. This can happen even if your use doesn't rise to the level of addiction. This can create sooo many issues. Including turning your wife off to sex with you, which leads to more porn use. You can see where this is going. Luckily this didn't happen to me too much. I say too much, because I know it had some impact on me, just not one that made me push my wife to turn into a porn star. What it did do is desensitize my response to eroticism. This made it harder for me to orgasm. 

I am lucky to have a great sex life with my wife of 32 years. Today it is better than ever, but I know for sure it was at its worst when I was regularly masturbating to porn and it wasn't because my wife was turning me down.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Its been my experience that some guys are just more driven, more "enthusiastic" about the sexuality of women...I don't think the others have any more "control" they just don't have IT in them...

Some years back, myself and a few of my buddies went to an event...As we were walking around the fairgrounds, an absolutely drop dead knockout of a woman was walking towards all of us, just passing by...There were, like, seven of us there and only me and another guy actually took notice...You couldn't miss this woman, she was the whole package and dressed to show all the assets...

Point being, those other guys aren't more virtuous, they just don't have that trigger in them...or its very weak, at best...For me, its a lifetime struggle, and I wont make any excuses for it...If you want to complain to anyone, then complain to The Creator.....

Which brings up another point....Why would a Creator give us this fierce internal desire, then want us to just bottle it all up? Yeah, I know, leave it all for your SO, but its not that simple....Plus for the aspects of procreation, it doesn't even make any sense.....

I've never been a huge porn consumer, but I admit to using it...It was more of a tool than anything else..It never affected anything about any partner I was with..If a woman wants to draw a line in the sand about it, that's fine and completely her right...

I guess the only thing I sometimes wonder about women, is they want a guy to be very sexually driven and passionate, yet not look at/think about anything else on the street...I don't think you can have it both ways....*The key for guys is to be cagey enough about it so she never knows what you are doing or thinking...Its not always easy, but its doable...*


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> That has got to be BS. Most divorces are labelled as irreconcilable differences...meaning your guess is as good as mine. I've never seen porn as a reason in any surveys or its way down the bottom of the list. Unless you are lumping porn in with extramarital affairs which is ridiculous.


I read an article by a divorce solicitor who said this. Porn not physical affairs. Surveys have been done. I know of 2 divorces myself due to porn and it's bad effects.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

KindBuddha said:


> O.K. fair enough.
> So, what if you and your husband are walking down the street and he sees a gorgeous sexy woman and gets extremely sexually aroused by seeing her. And since you want complete honesty he tells you that. Do you divorce him? Or is it only when the fantasizing is to ejaculation?


He has his own ways of behaving that he had long before we met. He never stares or ogles at attractive women or dwells on what he sees and he just moves on as I do too. He won't watch certain things on TV or in films if there is sex or nudity, full or partial. He avoids adverts due to the sexualised context many have now here is the UK. 
I love him for it. 
I would end a marriage over porn use yes. Not going to be treated so badly or with such disrespect. That's why I would never marry a guy who watched porn.I would rather be single.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> Its been my experience that some guys are just more driven, more "enthusiastic" about the sexuality of women...I don't think the others have any more "control" they just don't have IT in them...
> 
> Some years back, myself and a few of my buddies went to an event...As we were walking around the fairgrounds, an absolutely drop dead knockout of a woman was walking towards all of us, just passing by...There were, like, seven of us there and only me and another guy actually took notice...You couldn't miss this woman, she was the whole package and dressed to show all the assets...
> 
> Point being, those other guys aren't more virtuous, they just don't have that trigger in them...or its very weak, at best...For me, its a lifetime struggle, and I wont make any excuses for it...If you want to complain to anyone, then complain to The Creator.....


I do not stare or oggle or lear or catcall or anything else either when I encounter a beautiful woman and I am the horniest SOB in the valley. 

it’s the difference between thoughts and feelings vs actions.

like Jimmy Carter said when he was running for President and was asked if he ever had impure thoughts -

He said he may have lust in his heart but keeps his hands to himself.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> it’s the difference between thoughts and feelings vs actions.


And I still maintain that it's a matter of having control over one's thoughts so that illicit thoughts don't materialize in the first place.

But we've been down that road. We just won't completely agree on this topic and that's fine.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

KindBuddha said:


> OK you didn't actually answer the question I asked, which is a hypothetical--a "what if" question. I am not asking whether your husband would actually behave as described in the hypothetical. Let's say it's a friend of yours who told you HER husband engaged in the behaviors in the hypothetical. Your advice would be to her, to divorce him? It is natural for many many men to have spontaneous sexual attraction to a beautiful or sexy woman simply when they see her. So the man who admits to what is a natural attraction (but does nothing about it other than honestly tell you about it) is to be divorced? If not, why is getting aroused by a real woman less divorce-worthy then getting aroused by a pornographic image?
> 
> In terms of your comments about your actual husband, you don't really know what he does or how he behaves when you aren't present. OF COURSE given your attitude, if he has "evil thoughts" (according to you), he will never tell you about them. Plenty of guys do things like going to strip clubs as a way of dealing with sexual frustration in their marriages. He even "avoids adverts"?
> 
> ...


You have a strong passive-aggressive attitude in this post. Not sure if you realize that or if it is intentional.

Can't speak for @Diana7 but, I think she did answer your question. I'm sure MrD notices these women, but he doesn't allow his thoughts to dwell on them long enough to get into a state of extreme sexual arousal. That is what I got from her response. I think it is a natural response to recognize beauty and sexuality. That is was allows the species to exist. However, you can chose to look away and remind yourself that you already have a beautiful mate and shouldn't be dwelling on that other person. That is what I try to do and I suspect that is what MrD does. Believe me there are some women, and men, that are impossible to not notice. Sometimes the initial reaction is jaw dropping, literally, lol. If I'm with my wife in those cases we will often give each other that "did you see that?" look. Even in those cases I don't dwell on them to the point of sexual arousal. I don't know that she would leave me over it, but if I stared at a pretty woman on the street to the point I'm getting an erection my wife would definitely be pissed, and rightfully so IMO.

I see a big difference between porn use and noticing a sexy woman and the fleeting sexual thoughts that go along with it. I'm not sure how you can consider noticing a beautiful human on par with masturbating to that beautiful human.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You have a strong passive-aggressive attitude in this post. Not sure if you realize that or if it is intentional.
> 
> Can't speak for @Diana7 but, I think she did answer your question. I'm sure MrD notices these women, but he doesn't allow his thoughts to dwell on them long enough to get into a state of extreme sexual arousal. That is what I got from her response. I think it is a natural response to recognize beauty and sexuality. That is was allows the species to exist. However, you can chose to look away and remind yourself that you already have a beautiful mate and shouldn't be dwelling on that other person. That is what I try to do and I suspect that is what MrD does. Believe me there are some women, and men, that are impossible to not notice. Sometimes the initial reaction is jaw dropping, literally, lol. If I'm with my wife in those cases we will often give each other that "did you see that?" look. Even in those cases I don't dwell on them to the point of sexual arousal. I don't know that she would leave me over it, but if I stared at a pretty woman on the street to the point I'm getting an erection my wife would definitely be pissed, and rightfully so IMO.
> 
> I see a big difference between porn use and noticing a sexy woman and the fleeting sexual thoughts that go along with it. I'm not sure how you can consider noticing a beautiful human on par with masturbating to that beautiful human.


You got it. Nobody can help seeing attractive people as we live our lives, but we can help what we do and think about when we see them and after they have passed by.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> And I still maintain that it's a matter of having control over one's thoughts so that illicit thoughts don't materialize in the first place.
> 
> But we've been down that road. We just won't completely agree on this topic and that's fine.


Yes, we all have control over what we think about and dwell on.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

KindBuddha said:


> O.K. fair enough.
> So, what if you and your husband are walking down the street and he sees a gorgeous sexy woman and gets extremely sexually aroused by seeing her. And since you want complete honesty he tells you that. Do you divorce him? Or is it only when the fantasizing is to ejaculation?


Divorce him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

KindBuddha said:


> So if porn is out of bounds, what about sexual fantasizing that is purely mental, without the visual aid of porn images? In principal fantasizing to the images in your mind and masturbating is no different from using porn to aid the process. Are you also saying that you are against masturbation? Because I would venture to guess most men, and women, have sexual fantasies when they masturbate, even without use of porn, and often times the fantasies don't involve the spouse. Many people also do this during sex with their spouse--they fantasize about other people, at least some of the time. Are you against that, too?
> 
> The above sexual practices are so common that I don't think it's quite fair to declare them to be "abnormal" and hence subject to moral prohibition, at least not if they are only engaged in once in a while.
> 
> ...


If the person is constantly fantasizing about other people, then they need to be single.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Uh, another porn thread...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

KindBuddha said:


> OK you didn't actually answer the question I asked, which is a hypothetical--a "what if" question. I am not asking whether your husband would actually behave as described in the hypothetical. Let's say it's a friend of yours who told you HER husband engaged in the behaviors in the hypothetical. Your advice would be to her, to divorce him? It is natural for many many men to have spontaneous sexual attraction to a beautiful or sexy woman simply when they see her. So the man who admits to what is a natural attraction (but does nothing about it other than honestly tell you about it) is to be divorced? If not, why is getting aroused by a real woman less divorce-worthy then getting aroused by a pornographic image?
> 
> In terms of your comments about your actual husband, you don't really know what he does or how he behaves when you aren't present. OF COURSE given your attitude, if he has "evil thoughts" (according to you), he will never tell you about them. Plenty of guys do things like going to strip clubs as a way of dealing with sexual frustration in their marriages. He even "avoids adverts"?
> 
> ...


You have totally misunderstood, Mr. D's decisions about what he does and doesn't watch and see are his, nothing to do with me. He held these standards long before we met. It's not up to me what he does nor up to him what I do. We each have our own boundaries and views. When it comes to porn and similar, we are both against it.
Of course I am not going to get divorced over him seeing an attractive lady, good grief, but if he stared, leered, got sexually aroused and fantasized about women he saw in passing that would be really disrespectful, just as it would be if I did the same. I wouldn't marry a guy who acted in such an unloving and uncaring way. 

I have no anger, except towards the porn industry with the pain and hurt and damage that it causes. No, was never sexually abused, nor bought up in a sexually repressed or restrictive family. Many many share my anti porn stance, many are very aware of the awful toll its taking on young people, women, children, men and marriages.

I never mentioned 'evil thoughts', that was you, I am well aware we are all fallible and we fail, but yes I do know him pretty well and how how he acts, we have been married for 17 years and communicate openly about sexual stuff. Plus, we are together nearly all the time now due to being retired and before that he worked a lot from home.


We are both Christians who love God, but my anti porn stance was formed before I found faith in God. God merely confirmed to me that we should focus our sexuality on our husband or wife not on those outside the marriage. God also knows there are temptations, but we aren't helpless and weak to avoid temptation if we want to. Hense his decision as to what he watches and wont watch on tv and in films. He isn't unique, we know many guys who make similar decisions.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You have a strong passive-aggressive attitude in this post. Not sure if you realize that or if it is intentional.
> 
> Can't speak for @Diana7 but, I think she did answer your question. I'm sure MrD notices these women, but he doesn't allow his thoughts to dwell on them long enough to get into a state of extreme sexual arousal. That is what I got from her response. I think it is a natural response to recognize beauty and sexuality. That is was allows the species to exist. However, you can chose to look away and remind yourself that you already have a beautiful mate and shouldn't be dwelling on that other person. That is what I try to do and I suspect that is what MrD does. Believe me there are some women, and men, that are impossible to not notice. Sometimes the initial reaction is jaw dropping, literally, lol. If I'm with my wife in those cases we will often give each other that "did you see that?" look. Even in those cases I don't dwell on them to the point of sexual arousal. I don't know that she would leave me over it, but if I stared at a pretty woman on the street to the point I'm getting an erection my wife would definitely be pissed, and rightfully so IMO.
> 
> I see a big difference between porn use and noticing a sexy woman and the fleeting sexual thoughts that go along with it. I'm not sure how you can consider noticing a beautiful human on par with masturbating to that beautiful human.


Plus, randomly seeing a person as you walk by isn't the same as deliberately seeking out porn.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I read an article by a divorce solicitor who said this. Porn not physical affairs. Surveys have been done. I know of 2 divorces myself due to porn and it's bad effects.


Well since almost every married man uses porn at one time or another, I'm sure if you ask a woman to list a laundry list of things, porn may be on half the list (near the bottom). I don't believe for one second with the prevalence of cheating, addiction, financial issues that porn is up there... maybe according to that one article (uncited) and your two friends (I'm sure they had other issues).


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well since almost every married man uses porn at one time or another, I'm sure if you ask a woman to list a laundry list of things, porn may be on half the list (near the bottom). I don't believe for one second with the prevalence of cheating, addiction, financial issues that porn is up there... maybe according to that one article (uncited) and your two friends (I'm sure they had other issues).


No the friends didn't have other issues, I know them well. it was the porn. It's not just one article, its many observations and experiences by those in the divorce industry. 
There are still many men who aren't porn users despite what you may think. Others who used to be but are no longer.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Uh, another porn thread...


Yeah, but oh no it's not a problem.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> No the friends didn't have other issues, I know them well*. it was the porn.* It's not just one article, its many observations and experiences by those in the divorce industry.
> There are still many men who aren't porn users despite what you may think. Others who used to be but are no longer.



I don't care how well you know them, most people will never share that kind of personal information...

The best you could say is "possibly"...

Most men don't tell women what they feel is bothering them about the relationship....The woman could think that everything is fine, because he wont open up about it, but its far from "fine"......They have been conditioned to never do that, because many women fall apart when they are faced with that information...So then guys wind up finding ways to cope with the situation...And to her, she thinks its the pornography because she doesn't know what's going on inside his head...It may not be right, but until things blow up, that's what they do....Even more of an issue with people of strong religious beliefs, that forbid and stigmatize heavily the process of divorce...
.
In most of these cases, if you took away the access to porn, the marriage won't then renew blissful desire. as that died years ago...long before the porn became a topic of conversation..


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I don't make porn an issue, because I own a mirror and know I've gained weight and aged and I know I would lose a contest between myself and a young, hot porn star (or a stripper or a hooker, although when I learn that's happening I will relieve him of the burden of being married to me). To me, it's not worth making a big deal over, but then, if he does use it I don't know about it, so it's not an issue.

But when someone says they have a "no porn" rule in their marriage, which they are free to do if that works for them, and they're met with "would you divorce him for noticing a pretty woman on the street" as though those two things are in ANY way related, it certainly seems like they are using hyperbole to justify something they aren't completely sure about. That makes me think it's more of a problem for them than they're saying. I know when I get slapped with some truth I can get defensive, especially if it's a truth about a weakness. Or a sense of entitlement, which we see a lot of around here. 

IMO, if the porn use is to the point where it's noticeable, then it's probably too much. If it's not an issue, it's not an issue. I try not to make windows into men's souls.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Tm, a great attitude


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's all down to respecting boundaries, really.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> I don't care how well you know them, most people will never share that kind of personal information...
> 
> The best you could say is "possibly"...
> 
> ...


One is a close family member and the other went through her marriage break up when I did, so yes, I know. We shared a lot. It was the porn. One was even watching it while she was out ,with their tiny children running around. Thankfully they had a sensible wise judge who made sure he was no longer allowed unsupervised access to them, poor kids, I used to baby sit for them and the after math of the dad leaving deeply damaged them especially the eldest. Porn is a horrible thing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don't make porn an issue, because I own a mirror and know I've gained weight and aged and I know I would lose a contest between myself and a young, hot porn star (or a stripper or a hooker, although when I learn that's happening I will relieve him of the burden of being married to me). To me, it's not worth making a big deal over, but then, if he does use it I don't know about it, so it's not an issue.
> 
> But when someone says they have a "no porn" rule in their marriage, which they are free to do if that works for them, and they're met with "would you divorce him for noticing a pretty woman on the street" as though those two things are in ANY way related, it certainly seems like they are using hyperbole to justify something they aren't completely sure about. That makes me think it's more of a problem for them than they're saying. I know when I get slapped with some truth I can get defensive, especially if it's a truth about a weakness. Or a sense of entitlement, which we see a lot of around here.
> 
> IMO, if the porn use is to the point where it's noticeable, then it's probably too much. If it's not an issue, it's not an issue. I try not to make windows into men's souls.


Absolutely, they are in no way related. Porn is a conscious decision, walking past an attractive person is purely accidental.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

If a loved one drank themselves to death you would no doubt hate alcohol but most people can partake without destroying themselves and causing grief to others.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> One is a close family member and the other went through her marriage break up when I did, so yes, I know. We shared a lot. It was the porn. One was even watching it while she was out ,with their tiny children running around. Thankfully they had a sensible wise judge who made sure he was no longer allowed unsupervised access to them, poor kids, I used to baby sit for them and the after math of the dad leaving deeply damaged them especially the eldest. Porn is a horrible thing.


Well, that's just sick. I'm sure most men aren't running around jizzing like a water hose while kids are there. My guess they go to their bathroom late at night and tug one out in the dark after getting rejected by their wife yet again... I mean let's be real, sure there are some addicts just like with alcohol, but most normal people aren't turning down enthusiastic sex for porn.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don't make porn an issue, because I own a mirror and know I've gained weight and aged and I know I would lose a contest between myself and a young, hot porn star (or a stripper or a hooker, although when I learn that's happening I will relieve him of the burden of being married to me). To me, it's not worth making a big deal over, but then, if he does use it I don't know about it, so it's not an issue.
> 
> But when someone says they have a "no porn" rule in their marriage, which they are free to do if that works for them, and they're met with "would you divorce him for noticing a pretty woman on the street" as though those two things are in ANY way related, it certainly seems like they are using hyperbole to justify something they aren't completely sure about. That makes me think it's more of a problem for them than they're saying. I know when I get slapped with some truth I can get defensive, especially if it's a truth about a weakness. Or a sense of entitlement, which we see a lot of around here.
> 
> IMO, if the porn use is to the point where it's noticeable, then it's probably too much. If it's not an issue, it's not an issue. I try not to make windows into men's souls.


Mr. D is in his mid 60's and doesn't look like he used to, neither do I, but I cant see that it means its ok for me to disrespect him so much by seeking out young naked guys in porn. He is still my one and only, the man I love. 
I could never treat him that way ever. 
Plus, for many the more they watch porn the more discontent they get with their spouses and that's so sad. Why would anyone want to do anything that brings discontentment in their marriage? I believe we should try and build each other up, not tear each other down.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Kput said:


> If a loved one drank themselves to death you would no doubt hate alcohol but most people can partake without destroying themselves and causing grief to others.


I'd say that's a good analogy because there is a risk even in a light social drinking atmosphere. A person can let that get out of control and destroy their world. It's the same with porn.

Also, it's a good analogy because for some people, alcohol is a boundary and they won't allow it in their lives for any number of reasons.
So a person who chooses to drink, won't be in their life.

Also with both alcohol and porn, there are people who think it's not a big deal and others who disagree.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well, that's just sick. I'm sure most men aren't running around jizzing like a water hose while kids are there. My guess they go to their bathroom late at night and tug one out in the dark after getting rejected by their wife yet again... I mean let's be real, sure there are some addicts just like with alcohol, but most normal people aren't turning down enthusiastic sex for porn.


Yes it was sick but it started with him doing it alone, and he wasn't masturbating in front of them, just watching it. It was the time she was out, so he took advantage. 
He wasn't being rejected either, she adored him. It was so sad. I have heard many other horrible stories concerning porn use as well. 
We have heard many stories here from women whose husbands do just that, reject them for porn. It's really not uncommon. Many men get to the point where they can't have a normal sex life with their wives anymore.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kput said:


> If a loved one drank themselves to death you would no doubt hate alcohol but most people can partake without destroying themselves and causing grief to others.


Pon use will damage the user and their families whether you think so or not.
Porn Damages the Brain | Dr. Trish Leigh (drtrishleigh.com)


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I'd say that's a good analogy because there is a risk even in a light social drinking atmosphere. A person can let that get out of control and destroy their world. It's the same with porn.
> 
> Also, it's a good analogy because for some people, alcohol is a boundary and they won't allow it in their lives for any number of reasons.
> So a person who chooses to drink, won't be in their life.
> ...


Similar to gambling. For so many it gets out of control and even if they manage to keep it under control, what a waste of time and money it is anyway.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

"wast of time and money" that is subjective, I find watching most TV a wast of time and it could be considered that the amount of clothes I buy a wast of money


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Waste doh


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kput said:


> "wast of time and money" that is subjective, I find watching most TV a wast of time and it could be considered that the amount of clothes I buy a wast of money


Many who gamble can't afford to lose the money. Then others suffer.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Similar to gambling. For so many it gets out of control and even if they manage to keep it under control, what a waste of time and money it is anyway.


I don't think anyone pays for porn. For those that cant handle it and it gets out of control, they obviously need not partake. For the majority of men that use it recreationally or as a substitute, I don't think any of that applies. It just becomes a personal, moral, marital choice.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Plus, for many the more they watch porn the more discontent they get with their spouses and that's so sad. Why would anyone want to do anything that brings discontentment in their marriage? I believe we should try and build each other up, not tear each other down.


One would think that a husband would never, ever want his wife to feel like she was ugly or lesser or unsexy. (and of course vice versa) But we see a trend lately with the introduction of "dread" into marriages, making women feel unsure and unlovable, clearly to maintain some kind of "control." As though it's manly and strong to make your wife feel small. It's so sad and toxic, and clearly doesn't work. 

I don't think that all men do this, or all men who use porn occasionally. But some men do, and porn can be one element of that.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I don't think anyone pays for porn. For those that cant handle it and it gets out of control, they obviously need not partake. For the majority of men that use it recreationally or as a substitute, I don't think any of that applies. It just becomes a personal, moral, marital choice.


Don't pay? The porn industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, so someone is paying.

Porn really is everywhere. Here are some stats I ran across
25 million porn sites world wide
12% of all websites and 30% of all internet traffic is porn. 
Approximately 11,000 porn movies are shot annual in California. 
$3,075 is spent every second on the internet
28,000 users are watching porn every second
And a really sad one, 88% of scenes contains acts of physical or verbal aggression


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well, that's just sick. I'm sure most men aren't running around jizzing like a water hose while kids are there. My guess they go to their bathroom late at night and tug one out in the dark after getting rejected by their wife yet again... I mean let's be real, sure there are some addicts just like with alcohol, but most normal people aren't turning down enthusiastic sex for porn.


I'm 70, and in the 1960s, my dad had a nightstand full of porn magazines and rubbed one out every night, which is why my mother moved to a separate bedroom. He would "read" his magazines right in front of me while people were still going down the hall for different things, like letting the dog out or to the fridge. Now, what he did with his jizz, I don't know because I didn't want to know and avoided crossing his path at night for the most part, but I had to use the only bathroom in the house, which was in the hall just a few feet from his open bedroom and pass by. He obviously couldn't cloister himself in the bathroom since other people would need to use it. 

The point is kids know everything that is in the house and who's using it, so people shouldn't delude themselves that it or guns are hidden. He never threw any of his magazines away either. He stored them in an open shed outdoors, and there were hundreds of them. I knew where his rifle was too and every time he would go to my mother's room after bedtime, I went into his closet to see if he took the rifle so I could go back to sleep. 

And on electronics, kids know better than adults how to find everything.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Don't pay? The porn industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, so someone is paying.
> 
> Porn really is everywhere. Here are some stats I ran across
> 25 million porn sites world wide
> ...


That's what a lot of people get off on, the aggression, the fake control, the humiliation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kput said:


> Waste doh


You can edit a post. If you click in the three dots at the top right of one of your posts, there's an option to edit.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Thank you


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Don't pay? The porn industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, so someone is paying.
> 
> Porn really is everywhere. Here are some stats I ran across
> 25 million porn sites world wide
> ...


let me rephrase, smart people don't pay!


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> and it certainly is cheating of the mind.


And it is certainly, definitely Not. See. 

Bottom line, to you, if you were watching porn you would be cheating.

To me most certainly not. Not even close. It's just a tool to get off when the wife is not up to it and I need to release, or just to discharge some stress.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> And it is certainly, definitely Not. See.
> 
> Bottom line, to you, if you were watching porn you would be cheating.
> 
> To me most certainly not. Not even close. It's just a tool to get off when the wife is not up to it and I need to release, or just to discharge some stress.


You are focusing on others apart from your wife to get sexual pleasure. How is that not cheating?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

KindBuddha said:


> Not passive aggressive at all. You misquoted Diana7. She didn't say MrD "notices these women." On the contrary, she said the opposite--he pays them no attention at all. That's why I asked her to address the hypothetical--what if a man (doesn't really have to be her husband) noticed a woman and got excited. Would that man's wife be justified in divorcing him? She never said he had any thoughts about these women, much less did she say that he doesn't allow his thoughts to dwell on them long enough....etc. etc. That's all stuff that is not in her post and that you just imagined. And what you "suspect" Mr. D does is just complete fantasy on your part.


He got it mostly right though. We all have eyes, and we all see people, but it's what we do then that matters. Do we walk on and focus our minds on something else or do we dwell on that person and fantasize about them? Do we just glance, or do we stare and ogle?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

KindBuddha said:


> Not passive aggressive at all. You misquoted Diana7. She didn't say MrD "notices these women." On the contrary, she said the opposite--he pays them no attention at all. That's why I asked her to address the hypothetical--what if a man (doesn't really have to be her husband) noticed a woman and got excited. Would that man's wife be justified in divorcing him? She never said he had any thoughts about these women, much less did she say that he doesn't allow his thoughts to dwell on them long enough....etc. etc. That's all stuff that is not in her post and that you just imagined. And what you "suspect" Mr. D does is just complete fantasy on your part.


I'm sorry you weren't able to understand what she wrote.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> You are focusing on others apart from your wife to get sexual pleasure. How is that not cheating?


You got a skew view of the world, that's a given. But do tell how can you know if I'm focusing on others? Do you understand what images are? Do you understand that an image (s) has nothing to do with with anything in my relationship, specially since my wife doesn't mind one bit, and sometimes she helps so that I can get off faster.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Pon use will damage the user and their families whether you think so or not.
> Porn Damages the Brain | Dr. Trish Leigh (drtrishleigh.com)


If you read the article you posted, I think it really talks about porn addiction, not just watching porn in moderation. I think that the analogy to alcohol and alcohol addiction is perhaps a good one.

Just as with alcohol, there is a huge difference in a glass of wine after dinner and drinking shots of Everclear. Similarly, there is a difference between a video on erotic massage or on loving sex versus a video on gang-bangs and BDSM with physical punishment/torture.

An occasional drink in a social setting is not a reason to ban all alcoholic refreshments. Similarly, watching porn occasionally, is not a reason for a wife to forbid all porn watching. 

Again, when I was trying to save a sex starved marriage our Sex Therapist had us watch Sinclair Institute Better Sex videos. I would say that while given to us to watch as "instructional" that there was little difference between those video's and some of the softer core porn video's. 

Again, from the article you quoted as to why porn is so bad..........



> While porn can create several issues mentally and physically, it can also harm those that people hold closest to them. It’s called a “silent tsunami of porn use.” *This means that not only will porn have lasting effects on individuals that are addicted*, but also on those individual’s loved ones as well. *The addiction* ripples out from the brain to all aspects of life.
> 
> *Porn Makes Your Partner Unattractive*
> 
> ...


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> let me rephrase, smart people don't pay!


Smart people, don't spend their paycheck at a strip club or at a casino. They also don't spend it on porn.

Furthermore, they don't spend all there money on the things sold on the Home Shopping Network.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> You got a skew view of the world, that's a given. But do tell how can you know if I'm focusing on others? Do you understand what images are? Do you understand that an image (s) has nothing to do with with anything in my relationship, specially since my wife doesn't mind one bit, and sometimes she helps so that I can get off faster.


Not a skewed view at all, just one that excludes others from our marriage. 
If you are watching porn of course you are focusing on it. Otherwise why watch it? 
You can masturbate without porn. People did it throughout history.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> If you read the article you posted, I think it really talks about porn addiction, not just watching porn in moderation. I think that the analogy to alcohol and alcohol addiction is perhaps a good one.
> 
> Just as with alcohol, there is a huge difference in a glass of wine after dinner and drinking shots of Everclear. Similarly, there is a difference between a video on erotic massage or on loving sex versus a video on gang-bangs and BDSM with physical punishment/torture.
> 
> ...


Whether a person is addicted or not doesn't change what they are doing. That they are bringing others into their marriage and focusing away from their spouse. Many who start small go on to be addicted and those who claim they aren't may well struggle if they tried to stop. 
Having one drink isn't cheating or bringing others into your marriage. It's a very different thing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Whether a person is addicted or not doesn't change what they are doing. That they are bringing others into their marriage and focusing away from their spouse. Many who start small go on to be addicted and those who claim they aren't may well struggle if they tried to stop.
> Having one drink isn't cheating or bringing others into your marriage. It's a very different thing.


I respect your views. My opinion is slightly different, though: if the (moderate) porn use doesn't impact on the marriage and you partner is fine with it - *boundaries* - then I don't see the problem. If your partner agrees, it's not cheating. Also, you must be very stupid to get addicted to something like porn. It's a not a physical addiction and therefore it's just matter of will power. You are coming from a religious stance, but not everybody has a relationship with God.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> . Also, you must be very stupid to get addicted to something like porn. It's a not a physical addiction and therefore it's just matter of will power.


And someone might be pretty stupid to not understand the psychological and physiological effects that dopamine has on the human body...Depending on the individual, it would take quite a bit more than just will power to wean off...Same for a lot of us that like to train/exercise...I couldn't just "give it up" tomorrow, heck even the occasional slack day, or unscheduled break, causes me some minor psychological let down...

The struggle is very real for many....not all, but many....


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> And someone might be pretty stupid to not understand the psychological and physiological effects that dopamine has on the human body...Depending on the individual, it would take quite a bit more than just will power to wean off...Same for a lot of us that like to train/exercise...I couldn't just "give it up" tomorrow, heck even the occasional slack day, or unscheduled break, causes me some minor psychological let down...
> 
> The struggle is very real for many....not all, but many....


It's not technically possible to get addicted to dopamine. You use your brain to avoid/reduce the amount of a certain dopamine-realising activities. It's not a physical dependency induced by a chemical substance. You can control porn. I do.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Not a skewed view at all, just one that excludes others from our marriage.
> If you are watching porn of course you are focusing on it. Otherwise why watch it?
> You can masturbate without porn. People did it throughout history.
> [/QUOTE
> ...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> I respect your views. My opinion is slightly different, though: if the (moderate) porn use doesn't impact on the marriage and you partner is fine with it - *boundaries* - then I don't see the problem. If your partner agrees, it's not cheating. Also, you must be very stupid to get addicted to something like porn. It's a not a physical addiction and therefore it's just matter of will power. You are coming from a religious stance, but not everybody has a relationship with God.


I was anti porn before I was a Christian though. Even as a mid-teen I sensed that it was damaging and wasn't something I ever wanted in my life or future marriage. 
Yes, people are free to make their own choices and sometimes the partner doesn't mind, but more often than not the spouse is deeply hurt by it and the marriage can also be deeply damaged and even end due to it. Why someone would do something that is so hurtful to the person they are supposed to love I have no idea. 

I suspect a lot of men deny they are addicted, till they try and stop. Addictions can come upon us unexpectedly.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Also, you must be very stupid to get addicted to something like porn. It's a not a physical addiction and therefore it's just matter of will power.


You've said this before and you have no idea what you are talking about. If only it were this simple.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You've said this before and you have no idea what you are talking about. If only it were this simple.


Thank you. What is your take on it, apart from not being simple?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I was anti porn before I was a Christian though. Even as a mid-teen I sensed that it was damaging and wasn't something I ever wanted in my life or future marriage.
> Yes, people are free to make their own choices and sometimes the partner doesn't mind, but more often than not the spouse is deeply hurt by it and the marriage can also be deeply damaged and even end due to it. Why someone would do something that is so hurtful to the person they are supposed to love I have no idea.
> 
> I suspect a lot of men deny they are addicted, till they try and stop. Addictions can come upon us unexpectedly.


If we put aside religion and moral stances, if porn doesn't impact on the relationship and both partners are ok with it, then I have no problem. If reasonable boundaries are not respected, than it's not ok. If my partner said no porn, I would not use porn, if we had a reasonable sex life. There must be reasonable boundaries.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Thank you. What is your take on it, apart from not being simple?


Just think about the obesity epidemic. It is just a matter of will power to not eat more calories than your body needs to maintain its ideal weight. Yet 40% of Americans are obese.

When you've been regularly masturbating to porn for decades, you think it is really just a matter of saying, that's it, no more? Habits are ingrained and there is a brain chemical response. You get the same type of pleasure/reward cycle you have with drugs. You are right that you may not get the shakes or some other withdrawal symptoms like with options, but your mind is powerful. It can be all you think about every 5 minutes. Never a peaceful moment in your head without it. You can find distractions, but sooner or later it creeps back in. 

Believe what you want but it really isn't as simple as saying it isn't a "real" addiction.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Just think about the obesity epidemic. It is just a matter of will power to not eat more calories than your body needs to maintain its ideal weight. Yet 40% of Americans are obese.
> 
> When you've been regularly masturbating to porn for decades, you think it is really just a matter of saying, that's it, no more? Habits are ingrained and there is a brain chemical response. You get the same type of pleasure/reward cycle you have with drugs. You are right that you may not get the shakes or some other withdrawal symptoms like with options, but your mind is powerful. It can be all you think about every 5 minutes. Never a peaceful moment in your head without it. You can find distractions, but sooner or later it creeps back in.
> 
> Believe what you want but it really isn't as simple as saying it isn't a "real" addiction.


Maybe, but I find repetition boring. It doesn't work with me. Also, if I suspect I'm getting "addicted" to something, I recognise it, I rationalise it and I just stop. Maybe I'm wired differently.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Maybe, but I find repetition boring. It doesn't work with me. Also, if I suspect I'm getting "addicted" to something, I recognise it, I rationalise it and I just stop. Maybe I'm wired differently.


I’m wired the same as you. I say that I don’t have ”addictive tendencies”, meaning I can normally stop things pretty easily that others have trouble with.

But @BigDaddyNY I don’t fully understand overcomplicating non-physical addictions. Sure an addiction is a terrible thing and may be extremely difficult to overcome, but in the end, it does come down to being a question of mind over matter does it not?

Disclaimer: not an addition expert by any measure. Maybe I simplify it because it’s been easy for me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> but in the end, it does come down to being a question of mind over matter does it not?


This is what I was trying to explain... not very well, obviously...


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Ok, so to quantify what Cletus has said. As far as most men seeing other women and visualizing them sexually? There are actual medical and phycological studies that have been done that proves this. Also many articles alluding to this as well. Read one recently that was titled Can a man be friends with a woman without viewing her sexually. The overwhelming data posted to no. The majority of men will see other women and wonder what it'd be like to...not all but a real majority. It's the way men's brains are hard wired I suppose. I'm sure many women do the same. 
As to the jealousy and trust issues. If you have caught him in the past viewing porn, yes it's a problem if this is a stated boundary. If it happens again, of course it's going to create an issue of trust for you. Very normal. But remember this. It's that same response he gives to porn use (maybe) that he'd probably use if you caught him masturbating! There isn't hardly a man alive who hasn't, yet do they normally do it openly with their mates? Nope. Been taught growing up it's shameful, or dirty and perverted and sacrilegious. Have you ever caught him doing that? Does he perform this for you? Do you perform this for him? For most men, it's stimulating to see the visuals of sex shown in porn. Some may be fantasies they'd like to have, but don't dare say it. Or have but are denied. Men are stimulated by visual and touch. So approach him the same as you would when asking if he masturbates. Be gentle, loving and assuring no judgement, even show a little curiosity about it. Take down the defenses first so you can both caringly discuss the issues without guilt tripping.
A little pneumonic I've come up with based on a best selling book:
Men are from Mars
Women are from Venus
Women feel with their hearts
Men feel with their penis
Kinda sums it up.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> If we put aside religion and moral stances, if porn doesn't impact on the relationship and both partners are ok with it, then I have no problem. If reasonable boundaries are not respected, than it's not ok. If my partner said no porn, I would not use porn, if we had a reasonable sex life. There must be reasonable boundaries.


But what about the impact on the children? I was very impacted by my dad reading porn magazines. I was exposed to it. It colored my idea of what an attractive woman was. It impacted my parents' marriage, and it was pretty obvious, even to a little girl. It made me think being sexy was the most important thing for a girl. I realized at some point during a visit home as a young adult that I was subconsciously dressing like the cheesecake girlie illustration on a mirror my dad had up in his room, you know, black skimpy things, that certain look from the early porn. 

When I was maybe 11 or so, my mom caught me down on the floor on my back kicking my legs and feet up in the air mimicking a girl I'd seen dancing to an old song "The stripper" on tv that had come on the radio. Teaching your daughters that they are sex objects is BAD. Teaching your sons that women are sex objects is BAD. 

As a teen, I started worrying if I should even bring my teenage girlfriends over since I knew my dad was looking at photos of girls not that much different. The term back then was "dirty old man," and I began to wonder if my dad was one. And certainly in later years after I was out of the house, he did blossom into one.

You can't have porn happening in your home without your children being aware of it. Already they have it in their faces on the internet. The _least_ you could do is make a better real-life model for them and let them know that is not real life and that women deserve more respect than that and that you have higher aspirations for them.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

LillyBird said:


> Hello! I have been with my partner for 10 years, we have 2 beautiful children together and generally have a very easy-going and loving relationship. The one thing I am not okay with is porn. To me, it is fantasizing about being with another, probably better looking woman etc. (By the way, do men do this?! Like see a woman in the street and imagine having sex with her? The things I find on forums are surprising for me ) Okay sure, maybe on a rare occasion it is whatever - it would not bother me much, but the thought of it being regular is almost sickening for me. He knows I don't like it and denies watching it, I have looked in his phone a couple of times - which was always going to be fruitless given incognito mode anyway. No part of me ever wants to read messages, know his location etc. but I would 110% want to know if he watching porn and what it was. Nudity in films etc. is absolutely fine, but watching somebody have sex with a half-silicone woman and getting off to it really bothers me.
> 
> I searched this issue I have to find that it seemed uncommon... most comments addressing this were brutal and saying the concerned partner was jealous and insecure and needed therapy and their marriage was doomed... is this true? Is it so bad to be jealous?
> 
> ...


I will quote the Red Green show:
Lord, I'm a man, I can change if I have to, I think! You opened Pandora's box here!! Lol


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But what about the impact on the children? I was very impacted by my dad reading porn magazines. I was exposed to it. It colored my idea of what an attractive woman was. It impacted my parents' marriage, and it was pretty obvious, even to a little girl. It made me think being sexy was the most important thing for a girl. I realized at some point during a visit home as a young adult that I was subconsciously dressing like the cheesecake girlie illustration on a mirror my dad had up in his room, you know, black skimpy things, that certain look from the early porn.
> 
> When I was maybe 11 or so, my mom caught me down on the floor on my back kicking my legs and feet up in the air mimicking a girl I'd seen dancing to an old song "The stripper" on tv that had come on the radio. Teaching your daughters that they are sex objects is BAD. Teaching your sons that women are sex objects is BAD.
> 
> ...


it’s a good point, but these days it’s all digital, so it’s a lot easier to hide and I don’t really see how they could possibly find out. So I don’t really agree with your last statement. I don’t let porn impact on anything, or I didn’t, since I don’t have a wife any more and the children are out of the house. I’ve never been one of those guys, watching porn on their phone. Family was everything.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> it’s a good point, but these days it’s all digital, so it’s a lot easier to hide and I don’t really see how they could possibly find out. So I don’t really agree with your last statement. I don’t let porn impact on anything, or I didn’t, since I don’t have a wife any more and the children are out of the house. I’ve never been one of those guys, watching porn on their phone. Family was everything.


I think a lot of people don't confine their watching to their personal cellphones. Some watch on PCs, laptops, pads, and smart tvs. Even ones using their cellphones, maybe not you, I hope, but some are going to be careless.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If you google "Dad watches porn," well besides porn sites, you will find plenty of inquiries where kids have found their dad's watching digital porn. Just one example. 









How Do I Approach My Father Who Watches Pornography?


It truly is a disturbing thing to see what you have seen, but truly wise and mature of you not to fall into the same unlawful habit.




seekersguidance.org


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I’m wired the same as you. I say that I don’t have ”addictive tendencies”, meaning I can normally stop things pretty easily that others have trouble with.
> 
> But @BigDaddyNY I don’t fully understand overcomplicating non-physical addictions. Sure an addiction is a terrible thing and may be extremely difficult to overcome, but in the end, it does come down to being a question of mind over matter does it not?
> 
> Disclaimer: not an addition expert by any measure. Maybe I simplify it because it’s been easy for me.


It does come down to mind over matter. But again, if that were a simple task then 40% of Americans wouldn't be obese. Losing weight is all will power to eat less, yet it is a life long struggle for many. Oddly enough this one hasn't been an issue for me. 

I know porn addiction isn't like a drug addiction. If I would end up someplace with no access to porn I wouldn't start going into some kind of withdrawal. Maybe it is better to call it an obsession or an extreme habit rather than an addiction. Regardless, it is hard to quit for some. I have an obsessive streak and even somewhat of an addictive personality. It got me into a lot of trouble when I was a teen. I wasn't a drug addict in the sense of withdrawal, but I was a party addict and I would do what ever was available. I can't believe what my wife, then GF, put up with from me. Luckily, she was one of my obsessions and the only girl I ever really wanted. I recognized all the unhealthy addictive/obsessive issues I had, but couldn't stop with sheer will power alone. That is why I joined the Army. To get myself away from all of that and to teach me some discipline. It worked. I managed to refocus those obsessive qualities on good habits instead of bad. That gave me the ability to go from high school drop out to and engineer with an MBA and extremely successful career, marriage and family. In spite of all that some of the bad habits have been hard to shake, like porn. I've had an obsessive and unhealthy relationship with porn since around 1981. That is a long time. 

I've recently gone a few months without viewing any porn, then somehow I find my way back. Maybe I'm just weak. The odd thing is I don't even masturbate to it this time around. It is just some kind of weird curiosity that I just have to go look. I probably sound like an idiot, but it is what it is. Even though my wife is aware of my use, I don't really proactively tell her how much I've been watching it. I think that is what I need to try next. I think I need her to help hold me accountable. 

Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into a therapy session, lol, but I doubt I'm the only one that struggles with this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But what about the impact on the children? I was very impacted by my dad reading porn magazines. I was exposed to it. It colored my idea of what an attractive woman was. It impacted my parents' marriage, and it was pretty obvious, even to a little girl. It made me think being sexy was the most important thing for a girl. I realized at some point during a visit home as a young adult that I was subconsciously dressing like the cheesecake girlie illustration on a mirror my dad had up in his room, you know, black skimpy things, that certain look from the early porn.
> 
> When I was maybe 11 or so, my mom caught me down on the floor on my back kicking my legs and feet up in the air mimicking a girl I'd seen dancing to an old song "The stripper" on tv that had come on the radio. Teaching your daughters that they are sex objects is BAD. Teaching your sons that women are sex objects is BAD.
> 
> ...


My dad too had porn mags. It was one of the things that first made me realize how wrong it was. I never respected him the same way once I found out about them. Interesting that a young teenage girl can already sense that its damaging and unhealthy for a marriage before even being in a relationship.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It does come down to mind over matter. But again, if that were a simple task then 40% of Americans wouldn't be obese. Losing weight is all will power to eat less, yet it is a life long struggle for many. Oddly enough this one hasn't been an issue for me.
> 
> I know porn addiction isn't like a drug addiction. If I would end up someplace with no access to porn I wouldn't start going into some kind of withdrawal. Maybe it is better to call it an obsession or an extreme habit rather than an addiction. Regardless, it is hard to quit for some. I have an obsessive streak and even somewhat of an addictive personality. It got me into a lot of trouble when I was a teen. I wasn't a drug addict in the sense of withdrawal, but I was a party addict and I would do what ever was available. I can't believe what my wife, then GF, put up with from me. Luckily, she was one of my obsessions and the only girl I ever really wanted. I recognized all the unhealthy addictive/obsessive issues I had, but couldn't stop with sheer will power alone. That is why I joined the Army. To get myself away from all of that and to teach me some discipline. It worked. I managed to refocus those obsessive qualities on good habits instead of bad. That gave me the ability to go from high school drop out to and engineer with an MBA and extremely successful career, marriage and family. In spite of all that some of the bad habits have been hard to shake, like porn. I've had an obsessive and unhealthy relationship with porn since around 1981. That is a long time.
> 
> ...


If you want to stop, get her to download one of those programmes that either stop porn being able to be accessed or tell her when it is seen. They are very good for accountability.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think a lot of people don't confine their watching to their personal cellphones. Some watch on PCs, laptops, pads, and smart tvs. Even ones using their cellphones, maybe not you, I hope, but some are going to be careless.


I'm not sure what are are implying... I am careful, but I'm not supposed to watch it because other people are stupid? Or am I not supposed to watch it just in case? The last option I would agree with you, but I always watched it in my office where nobody can get in... if you watch it on your iPad in the house when you kids are around, then you are a moron.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

9 pages and now 173 posts debating about porn and whether guys look at chicks and not only has the OP never been back, but we do not know if her H has ever even looked at porn or not. 

She never even said that he has watched it. She was just afraid that he might. We don’t even know if he has.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> 9 pages and now 173 posts debating about porn and whether guys look at chicks and not only has the OP never been back, but we do not know if her H has ever even looked at porn or not.


You are not surprised, are you?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> You are not surprised, are you?


No not surprised. But think a lot of people missed the OP’s point of the post.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> No not surprised. But think a lot of people missed the OP’s point of the post.


I agree with you. Also, guilty as charged.


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