# Terrified I'm losing my husband of 10 yrs



## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Five days ago, at 3am, my husband asked me to go on a walk with him. On the walk he told me he's no longer sexually attracted to me.

I am terrified that this is the end of our marriage. We have a business together, I am as in love with him today as I was 10 years ago, and I don't know what to think. I'm going to provide as many details as I can without this turning into a book.

10 years married, no children (by mutual preference). We live in his country, not mine. His mental health is usually pretty good but since 2016 he's gone through periods of severe anxiety and depression including a psych hospital at one point. He was on antidepressants until six months ago, now he's not on anything.

In 2016 my H was accused of a misdemeanor that I know (because I was physically present) he didn't do. However because this country is slow as molasses, it still hasn't gone to trial, but eventually should. This whole thing has weighed on both of us enormously and caused him to leave his job because he couldn't work. It cost a lot for a lawyer but far more than that was the financial fallout from him leaving his job and us deciding to open a business instead so we could be our own boss. The business has done better every year but it's still a TON of work. He does most of the work. 

I bought the business with my pre-marriage life savings, which he never felt good about (he felt guilty I guess). I became depressed myself due to the whole sh**show of 2016 and giving up my dream of owning a house and as a result, as he was getting a lot better psychologically, he took on a lot more of the work for the business and I did less. 

We settled into a routine with that but it wasn't a fair routine because I was so low-energy and depressed and couldn't get out of it despite trying different things. The last time I remember our sex life being really fantastic was spring 2017. We haven't had sex since April 2019. I miss it horribly but I thought his low drive was due to the drugs he was prescribed for his depression/anxiety. However he's not on them anymore and still has no drive.

On Sunday he also told me that he thinks we're not sexually compatible anymore because he wants to do BDSM and I had told him at some point (probably 2018?) that I didn't. But I don't actually care, I wasn't trying to say "I never want to have sex if that's what you want to do", I didn't realize it was something he wanted anyway. I honestly don't care. I do want to have sex with him (however it happens) for the intimacy and connection. I just miss being intimate with him.

He may be having, or have had in the past, an affair or more than one. He has a lot of freedom and I wouldn't be shocked. I would be devastated, but not surprised, if that makes sense. I haven't looked at another man since I met him. I have no desire for anyone else. I just want him to feel romantically towards me again, which he told me several times is simply no longer the case.

Since he told me this, I've taken on additional responsibilities at work (permanently), which he says is really good. I don't mind doing it. I needed a huge kick in the ass to shake myself out of my depression and pick up the slack. It was totally unfair to him that he was doing so much more than I was. All this time, I've been providing financial infusions into the business as needed from my pre-marriage savings or from my parents, but I don't consider that to cover for me not doing the same hours as him. So now I'm doing more hours and hopefully he will feel better in that regard soon, though it's too early now.

In 2016 when he was charged with a crime, he was so stressed that he couldn't sleep in the bed with me anymore, he moved to the couch. It broke my heart but I didn't pressure him. After we moved to open our business, we could have slept in the same bed again but I was so depressed I was the one who wanted to be alone. We haven't slept in the same bed most of the past 4 years. It breaks my heart to write that but it's true. Nonetheless we were always very affectionate and physical (not actual sex but a lot of touching and being naked together and holding each other etc). We have slept in the same bed since Sunday night although every night he gets up in the middle of the night and goes outside to walk because he can't sleep, feeling panic attack symptoms. 

I have never tried to make him feel guilty about how the criminal charge affected me, because I know he didn't do anything wrong, and it wasn't his fault, but that (and all the things that happened as a result) is why I've been so depressed. My big dream was to buy a house with my life savings and I had to give up that dream. We got into a business I have zero interest in because it was the best financial option, but it's childish to dwell on that, it's what we have and what we have to do, unless he decides to leave me and I have to sell it at a loss.

His other main gripe with me besides not working enough, and not wanting to do BDSM, was that I'm not social. I don't have friends in this new place. After 2016 when we lost everything, including our friend circle, I tried to keep in touch with friends but with us having moved to a new place very far away, it wasn't really doable and they kind of lost interest and I became very solitary. It apparently angers or upsets him that I don't have friends here and that I'm not a social butterfly with his friends, which is true, and I'm trying to fix that. Last night I went to a Christmas dinner with his friends and then to a bar afterwards and he spent the entire dinner and bar time sitting silently, but I tried to be lively and friendly and to engage his friends. They seemed to have fun, although he was just sitting there. 

I'm willing to do just about anything to save our marriage. It worries me that he is constantly having panic attacks and having to go on walks at 3am or 5am, sometimes only for 5 minutes. 

As far as affair red flags, there are some. We live in a small town and he wants me to be social with everyone and he keeps introducing me to people as his wife and wanting me to know them. But at the same time he definitely had the freedom to meet up with someone on his own time without me knowing. I had told him when we met that I wasn't okay with infidelity and I needed to know, and he understood that, but that doesn't mean much of course. I think it's possible he's having an EA and/or PA but he told me that "it hasn't happened yet" in the sense of "but maybe it would". To me that sounds like it's probably already happening but he doesn't want to admit it yet.

It's been five days and he's been affectionate with me, says he's not leaving, he does love me a lot but isn't in love with me "but I want to be again". I see red flags everywhere for an EA/PA but given how interdependent we are with the business, I'd rather work this out than just jump on a plane and go back to my mom or something.

I fully accept my blame for not doing as many hours of work as he does. It was never fair or right. I felt to an extent like buying the business was a contribution but that was the wrong way to look at it. It's a very labor-intensive business and it's not like he can just sit in an office all day and look at spreadsheets. He's exhausted and I feel very much to blame. At least we should both be exhausted if nothing else. Of course now I am as I haven't eaten or slept in five days.

I guess I'm just curious what others see in this. I love him madly, I think he's a wonderful husband, but I think our lives took a VERY different path than either of us expected ten or five years ago and we lost each other somewhere in all the hullaballoo and both of our depressive states. I don't know if it's possible for a man to fall in love with his wife a second time. I guess deep down I think it's really not and I need to brace myself for what's coming. Thanks for reading.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Thank you for your long and descriptive post. 

Please supply his age, your age, on your next page of thoughts. This is important for reasons of his 'abilities'.

It must have taken a lot out of you to write it. Though, I suspect it was cathartic, in that it put all your feelings and fears, those painful years of marriage, in one tear soaked page.

1) I agree, the anti-anxiety medications often overly-softens a man's ability. Check his other meds, also, for this sly effect.

2) I believe the issue that you are facing is not (so much, ED) as it is, his 'habit'.
He has gotten out of the habit of making love to you, to anyone. His mind and body has drifted away from (not thoughts) but actions.
If his tool has abandoned him, the rest of his trousseau, his torso has not. He chooses not to work your body, with his warm pipe or with those other kind (mean)s.

3) I believe he has become such this porn addict. He has mentally latched onto BDSM. He wants to ravish you while you are bound and (gagged?).
He deep-down resents you and wants to dominate your body. He wants to punish you for all those years he could not have you. Or, chose not to have you...by habit. 

Oh my! His walking around alone at night is a risky behavior. If the police take note of this, it will not help his reputation. Especially, in the light of his misdemeanor charge. 

I hope it is not a Peeping-Tom charge.

Him walking around at night tells me his circadian rhythm is off. What are his sleeping hours, his normal patterns.

Hmm? He is not taking any stimulants, is he, Adderall or the likes for ADHD? Stimulants could account for his behavior and his 'new' predilection for aggressive BDSM. 
He is not on testosterone supplementation, or other steroids, is he?

Check his medication list. See if he is taking some that you are unaware of.

The man has a beast in him. 

His beast sounds, now frustrated, and overly stimulated for lack of activity and expression.

You need to get his bare butt in bed and silence that beast, for the good of the marriage. Be aggressive, whatever it takes.

Oh, on his cheating, possible cheating....

Yes, that remains a possibility. He may have found a kindred soul. One, having an operative VJ, one willing to be bound and tied. You need to follow up on this hunch of yours. Do so quietly, without his knowledge.
If he knows you are checking on this possibility he will become more secretive.

I hope he is not meeting some nightingGale on his nightly walk-abouts. And I hope he is not doing that peeping in his neighbors windows. 
He may be doing this, and hearing those moans of pleasure. 

Hearing moans may be his newly desired method of madness.



The Typist I-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

On those nightly walking jaunts...

Does he take his cell phone with him?

Uh, oh boy, yes.

If he does, who does he share his voice with?

Just a thought, yes, one of those.


TT 1-


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Let him go. Free yourself.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Yes it is possible for lovers to fall back in love, but both of you have contributed to it's demise. Structures of man an wife have taken is toll. And Sun C Mars make good points and engagement by him for you is distanced, and moving into a new sexual realm may not be for you.

Porn has taken control of his mind to stimulate his desires, but will be empty acts. And will not satisfy him but raise the ante of your sexuality, sex at any cost is not healthy nor required. Do pace yourself with him and do find out if he has for is cheating.


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## temet nostre (Oct 10, 2019)

I think that his night's walks are simple sights of depression it is no surprise because you both have a quite stressful life. If he took you for his walk, talking with you about problems and he introduces you to people as his wife, I think you do not have to be afraid that he cheating on you. 

As he says to you there is a problem with desire and it is quite normal in long term relationships, males start to be bored and they got weird fantasies. It is important that you pay attention to how he sees you at home, maybe you should dress up a bit better even though you will not leave the house. It is a good idea to go out and do something new and adventurous so that you see yourself again in a new situation. I think that taking care of the company you have a very boring routine and it can be deadly for sex and romantic life.

Don't be so afraid you love each other you have a business and you go ahead, everything will be fine. Just think of some crazy things you can do together.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

To @Florence1 So I'm very encouraged by the tone of the your message; to me, it sounds like someone who has actually navigated the dark waters of depression successfully and come out the other side as a better person. You write with a degree of understanding and empathy that isn't typically found in someone who is still living in a dark place. There's no sense of manipulation, of either the TAM jury or her husband. We don't see that too often here.

I do find it a bit disturbing that infidelity has gone from something that had been previously discussed as a boundary issue (a good thing!) but is now something it appears you are willing to tolerate. Why? Is it because you believe it happened while you were in a dark place and lacked the signs to see it, and feel guilty now that you may have been the cause of it? It almost feels like infidelity, if it exists, is not something that you'd be dealing with in trying to put your marriage back together. 

And then there's the cloud over both of your heads, this "misdemeanor" charge that you say isn't legit. You mention it several times, so it's clearly an important thing, but you're not even trickle-truthing us with details, and it could be that the nature of the offense is such that it adds to the understanding of what you're going through. 

So... I don't think we have enough to go on here, to make any sort of recommendation. I do think that you have a good head on your shoulders right now; you recognize your past failings, you've worked to rectify them and you appear to have come out the other side of depression as an intact person. That's actually pretty rare, in my experience. And, as I type this, it may be a clue to the issues the two of you face. Your experience with depression is world's apart from his. He may not see a way out, and your success may actually add to his depression. His world has flipped inside-out; originally, you were the person without drive & depressed, now you're good and he's a mess.

A long way of getting to the point. Have either of you had individual counseling? And what about marriage counseling?


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> I do find it a bit disturbing that infidelity has gone from something that had been previously discussed as a boundary issue (a good thing!) but is now something it appears you are willing to tolerate. Why? Is it because you believe it happened while you were in a dark place and lacked the signs to see it, and feel guilty now that you may have been the cause of it? It almost feels like infidelity, if it exists, is not something that you'd be dealing with in trying to put your marriage back together.
> 
> And then there's the cloud over both of your heads, this "misdemeanor" charge that you say isn't legit. You mention it several times, so it's clearly an important thing, but you're not even trickle-truthing us with details, and it could be that the nature of the offense is such that it adds to the understanding of what you're going through.
> 
> Have either of you had individual counseling? And what about marriage counseling?


Thank you to everyone who commented, I really and truly appreciate it.

A few questions in here as well as in other comments so let me answer them:

Our ages are 41 (him) and 38 (me).

Re: infidelity: yes, I would _theoretically_ tolerate it because I was way out of line in my own behavior. I say 'theoretically' because I don't know if I would actually be able to handle it emotionally. I think it's likely that despite wanting to keep the marriage together and everything, I might simply not be able to bear it, and might have to get out for my own sanity. I am actually in love with him, so if he is having an affair, it would probably break me. He claims he isn't, for whatever that's worth (though he hasn't offered to show me his phone or anything like that).

I didn't give details of the charge because it's a bit complicated but since you've asked, here is the short version:

H was a teacher. One of his students (17, male) attempted suicide twice and was hospitalized both times. He was considering a third attempt but talked to H because H was the only teacher he felt he could talk to (he refused to talk to the therapist and school guidance counselor, or his parents). This happened at an after-school meeting that the student and H were both at. H came home from work and called the school principal to let him know what was going on, and I was there and heard both sides of the conversation (this is what I meant about being physically present) so I heard the principal tell H to counsel the student because he wouldn't talk to anyone else. H did, but it was technically illegal that he do so because he was an academic teacher and not a social worker or trained therapist, however because the principal told him to, he did it (and he wanted to help, I guess). One of H's coworkers who had a bad relationship with him filed a complaint with the DA that H had broken this law. The principal, since he was the one who (probably illegally) told him to do it, should have admitted that he did so, however he lied and said he hadn't known anything about it -- which I know was false, because I heard them talking about it. It's illegal here for teachers to counsel students about "sensitive topics" unless specifically trained to do so. H was so upset about being sold down the river by his boss (the principal) and his colleague (the other teacher) that he essentially lost his mind and refused to go back to work or even to live in the same city so we moved. It was a huge blow to both of us because it was a very stable job, he had a masters in the field, he had received many awards for teaching, he had written a textbook used by the whole country, he had a great reputation. We kept thinking it would be dropped: there's no way the DA will press charges, it's so stupid and petty, he did it to try to prevent a kid from killing himself, as far as I'm aware the kid lived. But they did officially charge him, although it was 4 years ago now and nothing whatsoever has happened. Even if he were to be found guilty, it would be a suspended sentence meaning nothing really would happen and it would disappear from his record after a few years. I don't know what's going to happen or when -- so far all H has been expected to do was to send a written response through his lawyer, which he did in 2016. I've seen the paperwork for all this personally. I don't think the charge was reasonable given the situation. However there seems to be a trend here of charging people for even very minor things, and then just throwing it out when it finally gets to court. There's no pressure on DAs to have a "high conviction rate" like on TV law dramas, so I guess they just don't care. 

Re: counseling: we haven't tried marriage counseling. Today when I was doing the job that he asked me to do in taking over all the paperwork for our business, in sorting through papers (it was chaotic because he had so much other work to do besides, and I put it in order), I came across a receipt for a psychotherapist here in town from May of this year, which he had never told me about. So he has been to a therapist at least once in 2019. He was regularly seeing a psychiatrist in 2016 and then after we moved he kept in touch with her regularly on the phone. I was seeing one in 2016 as well (a different doctor in the same office) for talk therapy during the worst of it to help me support him and deal with the whirlwind of it. I didn't find it helpful though. When I came home from work tonight, I gave him a little folder with some papers from the office saying, "this is some stuff that probably doesn't need to be in the office, things like your Army Reserve papers, the dog's vaccine booklet, your psychotherapist stuff." He looked a little taken aback but I didn't make an issue of it and he didn't either. So he knows I know but I didn't act like I was upset that he didn't tell me. However when I did find the receipt, and realized what it was, it hit me rather hard that as far back as May, he felt so distant from me that he wouldn't have even told me that he was seeing a therapist. I know that he has a tendency to keep things from me and also his parents that he thinks would upset us. His parents STILL DON'T KNOW about the misdemeanor charge or why he left his job, they think we're insane for making these choices, but he swore me to secrecy and I'm not allowed to tell them. I told my own parents immediately and they paid for the lawyer and our moving costs (my parents are saints). 

The other night I had a horrible nightmare that I asked him to do MC with me and he looked at me (in the dream) and said "No. This marriage is over." And when I woke up, I told him that and he thought it was strange. But I don't think it's something we've seriously considered. I would be up for it. I suspect he would be too, since he's been to IC already. I only found the one receipt and I don't know if he's been multiple times, and I didn't ask. However back around that time, I recall him showing me a business card of a therapist here in town and saying she was very nice and if I were interested in seeing a therapist she was an option. I don't remember if it was the same woman but it could be. At the time, he didn't say he had been to see her as a patient though.

Other questions in other comments:

The "peeping tom" thing is the product of an active imagination, which I appreciate, but no, nothing like that. He's not interested in that sort of thing. 

I would be surprised if he watched porn much. I've never known him to watch it. He has a phone but not a computer. He could watch it on his phone or the tablet at work when he's alone there, but I kind of doubt it. The BDSM thing is from years ago, we used to do that stuff together but I thought we both grew out of it, I guess I was wrong, it's not a big deal to me. I really don't mind doing it, we used to and it wasn't crazy or violent. He's not going to do anything to hurt me or anyone, but maybe he remembers enjoying it in the early part of our marriage and thinks he wants to go back to that. He tried to say on Sunday (D-day if I can call it that) that he wanted to have BDSM sex with ME, but since then I think he's realized that since I actually would be fine with that, he can't say that anymore, and he's retreated to saying he doesn't want to have sex with me, period. 

Tonight I told him that I think about him when I masturbate, which is pretty much every day (which he did know, by the way...) and he asked for details. I told him I thought that was inappropriate given he didn't think of me sexually anymore. He said "how am I supposed to think about you that way if you don't tell me?" which was like 1% flirtatious so I told him the type of sex act that I mostly thought about (like a one word answer), and he said "that will happen at some point". I think he is starting to worry that he may have pushed me a little too far, because today he was more reassuring ("I'm here, aren't I? I'm not leaving. I love you.") I asked him tonight what he feels when we kiss (these are quite deep, passionate kisses that go on for a while, not pecks!) and he said "love and tenderness, but not sexual desire".

He says that our chemistry is lost. I said, "I don't think chemistry comes and goes. It's either there or it's not. I think if you feel it's gone, then it's really gone, I don't think it can come back." He seemed surprised and said, "no, it can come back." (In actual fact, I don't think that's true, at least not 99% of the time, and I'm not that special.)

He's still comfortable being naked in front of me and after a little hesitation, I am naked with him too. We have always slept naked our entire marriage and been naked in front of each other constantly at home since we don't have kids. The only time that changed was from Sunday through Tuesday when I felt embarrassed about it but as he so romantically pointed out "it's nothing I haven't seen before".

He's on one of his walks again right now as I'm writing this. These walks... I don't know what to make of them. Is he on the phone talking to an AP? Is he getting healthy exercise? Is he suffering out in the cold and miserable? Who knows.

One thing I realized today at work (he didn't come into work at all today because of the holiday but I was there for about 5 hours) was that he was right: I had absolutely no clue about his life. I didn't know sh**. I knew as much about that paperwork and the inner workings of our business as I knew the month we opened it. I completely failed at being a partner to him. Whatever else one might say, I deserve all of this. But that doesn't mean I want to give up. 

If he has an AP, I hope she's nice. I don't know what else to say about that. I hope she doesn't stress him out more than he already is. I guess probably he would be stressed about keeping it secret. He's attached to his phone, that's a big red flag. But who isn't. I'm attached to mine, and I have no interest in cheating on him.

To answer the question re: his sleeping pattern. He sleeps whenever he can, but because of our business is often awake until very late at night. He tends to fall asleep easily usually. It's only lately that he's been struggling with panicky feelings in the middle of the night. Last night he got up around 5am for a walk but came back within 5 minutes. Because he was feeling better? Because AP didn't answer the phone? Who knows. He came back to bed and we cuddled and slept.

Re: his medications: he's not on anything as far as I know, now. He was on Seroquel for about 3.5 years and an anti-anxiety medication for a much shorter time (about 9 months). He still had some of the anti-anxiety pill lying around and took one Sunday night and another one either Monday or Tuesday night, because he was having a panic attack. I believed the Seroquel had killed his desire but it's been 6 months so it should have bounced back by now. The anti-anxiety pill was awful because one of the side effects was cognitive dullness -- it literally made him stupid. It was a nightmare because he was on it while we were negotiating to buy our business so I had to make ALL those decisions by myself. My father was in the hospital so I couldn't even talk to my parents for advice. That in itself weighed on me a lot. My father passed away recently and that has been affecting me too.

Re: him hearing others' moans of pleasure -- if he cared about that, our upstairs neighbors are freaking LOUD when they have sex, and it annoys both of us! I don't think he cares about what other people are doing, but I do think he feels so totally disconnected from me that he just doesn't see me erotically anymore. I'm like a sister or something in his mind. It's heartbreaking because I want him now as much as I ever did. I am not aggressive and don't usually initiate sex because I am afraid to be rejected and because I guess I have some kind of complex where it's supposed to be the man that initiates (plus when the man initiates I feel desired which I don't at all now, not only because he straight up tells me that I'm not, but before that also because he never indicated that he wanted to have sex).

I think after today, at the office all day by myself, I feel a lot more sympathy for his position. Whatever he's up to, I barely have a right to have an opinion on it. It's like I opted out of our marriage without even realizing that's what I was doing. Depression SUCKS.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Florence1 said:


> As far as affair red flags, there are some. We live in a small town and he wants me to be social with everyone and he keeps introducing me to people as his wife and wanting me to know them. But at the same time he definitely had the freedom to meet up with someone on his own time without me knowing.


Neither of these sounds like any cheating red flag to me, do they to you?


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> Neither of these sounds like any cheating red flag to me, do they to you?


The first one seems like he wouldn't be having an affair, but he could be having an EA long-distance online or something. And certainly she would know about me and maybe she's married too and prefers the cover. Who knows. I really don't know. I know that on this forum if you don't admit that your H could be cheating on you, people will tell you that he probably is, and in my current emotional state I'd rather get ahead of it. In my opinion, it's probably 50/50 chances that he is. He already told me it could happen in the future, even knowing that was a deal-breaker for me.

Last night was the first night that he didn't get up in the middle of the night due to feeling panic/wanting to go for a walk. He did last evening, but I mean not over night. We slept in the same bed, and we both slept well. This morning we cuddled for about an hour before we got up. We were both naked. At one point this morning my hand fell in a certain position and I could tell he had an erection (not because of me, I'm sure it was just physiological from waking up) and I pulled my hand away and said something about not wanting to violate him (since he's told me at least 20 times since Sunday that he has no sexual desire/interest in me) and he seemed mildly surprised/annoyed like I was being silly.

I don't understand the mixed messages. If you go out of your way to tell a woman that you feel nothing sexually for her, why would you be surprised that she doesn't want to touch your erection? I told him I'm not interested in being a rapist. I don't get it. He told me several times this morning that he loves me and asked me if I know that, I just nodded so I wouldn't start crying. He asked me if I love him and I said yes and he asked me why and I said because I'm in love with you, and he said I love you too, and I said well, those are two different things, aren't they? And he said "everything will be okay", implying he thinks he's going to magically fall in love with me again somehow. 

Either he's playing a really ****ed up game, or he's got a strange view of how sexual attraction works. I don't think I've ever become sexually attracted to anyone after not being attracted to him for some time. I just don't believe it happens. I feel pretty hopeless. We have to take our dog to the vet together today and we may get some bad news re: a health problem she has. I don't know how we'll handle that. 

No matter what happens in the future, my sense of security is destroyed. That is a huge problem for me that I'm going to have to live with. Despite the fact that I feel the blame rests with me, some aspects of his behavior feel emotionally abusive right now.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I am sorry to hear your story and my heart wants you to find happiness in your marriage again.

A couple things come to mind:

1. He should have his testosterone checked. It affects SO many things about men. It could explain a lot and would be a less painful explanation perhaps.

2. I do think there is a very decent chance he is having an affair. For all the same red flags you listed. Are you able to access his phone? See who he is calling/texting. See what apps he has. Check his email(s). His social media private messaging. If you have a traditional cell phone carrier you can often sign into your account and see what numbers are being texted and the times. I would be very curious to see if he is calling or texting someone at those odd hours he goes for a walk. 

Others will have lots better suggestions as they stop by to read this. I think a lot of your answers are in his phone. He is young. Sleeping naked next pressed against a woman should be doing things to his body, unless he has already been satisfied. 

If he isn’t having sex with you, who is he having sex with then?


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

I wrote a long reply but I don't think it worked. I don't know why. I think I've fallen afoul of moderation. I feel confused.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Florence1 said:


> I wrote a long reply but I don't think it worked. I don't know why. I think I've fallen afoul of moderation. I feel confused.


For some reason two of your posts needed moderation. I'm not sure why. I approved one of them yesterday and the other one just now. You should be ok now.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Florence1 said:


> The first one seems like he wouldn't be having an affair, but he could be having an EA long-distance online or something. And certainly she would know about me and maybe she's married too and prefers the cover. Who knows. I really don't know. I know that on this forum if you don't admit that your H could be cheating on you, people will tell you that he probably is, and in my current emotional state I'd rather get ahead of it. In my opinion, it'*s probably 50/50 chances that he is. He already told me it could happen in the future, *even knowing that was a deal-breaker for me.


Why in the world would you stick around and tolerate this?? From him or from any other man? What a jerk.


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## temet nostre (Oct 10, 2019)

Spicy said:


> I am sorry to hear your story and my heart wants you to find happiness in your marriage again.
> 
> 1. He should have his testosterone checked. It affects SO many things about men. It could explain a lot and would be a less painful explanation perhaps.


Florence1 wrote that he had a morning erection that is a sign that the level of testosterone is okay.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I have heard that a symptom of an affair is no sex with the spouse bc that would be deemed as "cheating" on the affair partner in the adulterous spouse's eyes. Messed up thinking, I know. Also the ILYBINILWY(I love you but I'm not in love with you) speech is common among infidelity.

I find it curious that he had an erection with you right by his side but didn't have sex with you. Yes, I get that it was morning wood. But what man wouldn't take advantage of that? That makes me circle back to my first scenario in my first paragraph. Oh and let's not forget his declaration that he hasn't had an affair "yet." That is still ringing in my ears from when I first read it. If you are so inclined, time to start digging.

On another note, hoping for good news about your dog. I'm a dog parent and I know how devastating bad news can be for people like us.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Florence1 said:


> Last night he got up around 5am for a walk but came back within 5 minutes. Because he was feeling better? Because AP didn't answer the phone?.


I'm going with the latter.

You make FAR too many excuses for this guy.

I think one day you're going to find out he's not nearly as "innocent" as you keep trying to paint him. I don't believe for a second he was a 'victim' in the school scandal - regardless of what you heard or _thought_ you heard over the phone. He KNEW he was overstepping with that student and he did it *anyway. *Truth is, he was overstepping BEFORE he had the talk with the principal who_ supposedly _made him continue talking to the kid. You really need to start putting accountability for his bad decisions and **** behavior on HIS shoulders where it belongs, and stop constantly blaming everyone or everything else for his screw ups.



> I think after today, at the office all day by myself, I feel a lot more sympathy for his position. Whatever he's up to, I barely have a right to have an opinion on it. It's like I opted out of our marriage without even realizing that's what I was doing. Depression SUCKS.


Oh man. Don't you get TIRED of constantly pandering to this guy and acting like he's so much better than you? You act like he's some kind of demi-god who can do no wrong and you're but a mere mortal who can only HOPE for the privilege to remain circling in his orbit. I don't get it. I honestly don't. 

Nope, I don't. There isn't ONE good or appealing thing about this man. 

Not one.

It simply sounds like you're *seriously* codependent and you're looking through the *very* deluded eyes of love.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

temet nostre said:


> Florence1 wrote that he had a morning erection that is a sign that the level of testosterone is okay.


Not necessarily. A morning erection is the bodies way of keeping things down there in proper order.
...................................

The sacral nerve, part of your parasympathetic nervous system, controls erections.

The sympathetic nervous system is what prepares you for action — the fight or flight response. The parasympathetic nervous system, on the other hand, is what’s active while your body rests and repairs itself. It’s responsible for things like digestion, getting rid of waste, and sexual arousal.

The parasympathetic nervous system is active when you’re asleep, so erections sometimes happen in your sleep. The term “morning wood” is actually a misnomer; penises can become erect and then flaccid again several times in the course of one night. You’re just more likely to notice it when you wake up. _The Cleveland Clinic_


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> On another note, hoping for good news about your dog. I'm a dog parent and I know how devastating bad news can be for people like us.


Actually, it was unexpectedly good news, and a big relief for us. She's been struggling with a health problem for a while now but apparently has turned the corner and is looking good.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You really need to start putting accountability for his bad decisions and **** behavior on HIS shoulders where it belongs, and stop constantly blaming everyone or everything else for his screw ups.
> 
> Don't you get TIRED of constantly pandering to this guy and acting like he's so much better than you?
> 
> It simply sounds like you're *seriously* codependent and you're looking through the *very* deluded eyes of love.


I certainly wish he'd never gotten involved, but I do believe he was naively trying to help, I don't think he did anything maliciously or was trying to get himself charged with a crime, or to blow up our lives, or even looking for an excuse to leave the job (although this is possible because he was getting burned out of teaching by then). After all that happened, I took it upon myself to learn about teen s****** (I am going to assume that word triggered my posts to be put into moderation but you know what I mean) and it turns out that while attempts are very common, they very rarely actually succeed, so chances are very good that the whole thing was a total waste of energy. I think he just panicked at the thought of one of his students being s****dal. I think it's human to do that, though. I knew about the situation at the time, because he told me, and I remember talking about it in detail with him, but he never indicated that it was illegal to talk about it with the student (I don't think he even knew that it was, or that most people know that, as it's a strange law. I had no idea. It wasn't illegal where I'm from.) Obviously if we could go back in time, he would have made himself scarce and stayed out of the kid's path, but unfortunately that's not what happened. 

Do I get tired of pandering to him... I don't know, I don't think of it that way I suppose. I acknowledge that he's much more hard-working than I am. I have very low energy. He can work 20 hour days, I get tired after 4 hours. In our current life situation, that's probably the most useful personality trait for one of us to have. I'm nice, but I'm not that much use at running the business.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

temet nostre said:


> Florence1 wrote that he had a morning erection that is a sign that the level of testosterone is okay.


It wouldn't hurt to get this tested. He never goes to doctors. The last time he went they did pretty basic tests but not this one. I've always thought he had rather high testosterone just based on stereotypical things (like he puts on muscle easily, he has an absurdly deep voice, very heavy facial hair, that kind of thing) but I could be talking out my ass.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why in the world would you stick around and tolerate this?? From him or from any other man? What a jerk.


Yeah that just happened within the past 48 hours, still processing it.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Florence1 said:


> I certainly wish he'd never gotten involved, but I do believe he was naively trying to help, I don't think he did anything maliciously or was trying to get himself charged with a crime, or to blow up our lives, or even looking for an excuse to leave the job (although this is possible because he was getting burned out of teaching by then). After all that happened, I took it upon myself to learn about teen s****** (I am going to assume that word triggered my posts to be put into moderation but you know what I mean) and it turns out that while attempts are very common, they very rarely actually succeed, so chances are very good that the whole thing was a total waste of energy. I think he just panicked at the thought of one of his students being s****dal. I think it's human to do that, though. I knew about the situation at the time, because he told me, and I remember talking about it in detail with him, but he never indicated that it was illegal to talk about it with the student (I don't think he even knew that it was, or that most people know that, as it's a strange law. I had no idea. It wasn't illegal where I'm from.) Obviously if we could go back in time, he would have made himself scarce and stayed out of the kid's path, but unfortunately that's not what happened.


What am I missing? Where is all this school talk? Do you have another thread talking about this?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lucy999 said:


> What am I missing? Where is all this school talk? Do you have another thread talking about this?


Post #8 on this thread.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Florence1 said:


> The first one seems like he wouldn't be having an affair, but he could be having an EA long-distance online or something. And certainly she would know about me and maybe she's married too and prefers the cover. Who knows. I really don't know. I know that on this forum if you don't admit that your H could be cheating on you, people will tell you that he probably is, and in my current emotional state I'd rather get ahead of it. In my opinion, it's probably 50/50 chances that he is. He already told me it could happen in the future, even knowing that was a deal-breaker for me.


Pretty much any spouse who is out of sight for an hour could be having an affair, but I don't think "possible" and "red flag" are the same thing. His behavior is erratic in a bunch of ways, so I would be cautious about reading too much into a particular behavior.


> Last night was the first night that he didn't get up in the middle of the night due to feeling panic/wanting to go for a walk. He did last evening, but I mean not over night. We slept in the same bed, and we both slept well. This morning we cuddled for about an hour before we got up. We were both naked. At one point this morning my hand fell in a certain position and I could tell he had an erection (not because of me, I'm sure it was just physiological from waking up) and I pulled my hand away and said something about not wanting to violate him (since he's told me at least 20 times since Sunday that he has no sexual desire/interest in me) and he seemed mildly surprised/annoyed like I was being silly.


Well, you were cuddling naked. I'm not too sure where the boundaries are in a situation like that.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Post #8 on this thread.


Thank you. I think that may have been the post that was momentarily "lost" in moderation land and I hadn't discovered it yet.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Have you thought that he may not have pursued his erection because you guys are at an awkward stage right now.

If you truly think he isn't having an affair and want to re-establish a connection with him then if he wakes up with an erection tomorrow then jump on it. Don't be shy about letting him in on your masterbating. Men connect sexually. If you haven't had sex since April that is a huge hurtle to feeling connected. You stepping up at work and being more present will help him not feel overwhelmed. But reconnecting for men is usually sexual. As far as people not feeling sexual about someone they stopped feeling sexual over. That is true for women. I've know several men who rekindle sexual feelings.

I have to say I really don't know what to make of this. I do know healing is going to take some time. If you touch his erection while he is voluntarily naked beside you that is hardly rape. Ever think he wants you to have sex? Maybe he's afraid of being turned down. Look I get it. I also like to feel desired. I like my husband to initiate. But it's a far jump from I'd like him to do it to if I touch my husband erection I'm a rapist. He can say no. And if he does then you know there is more work on the relationship. Or there is an affair partner.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

After reading post #8, I think your H is so traumatized about what happened at his job. I know I would be. All that hard work and accolades down the drain. I'd be so bitter. And there hasn't been an ending after what, 4 years now? So he (and you) have been in limbo for 4 years. That's terrible. You are both waiting for the other shoe to drop legally. What an awful way to live.

It's clear that your H is a keeper of secrets. He hasn't told his family about it, he didn't tell you about his IC appt. in May of this year. What else is he not telling you? Could there be more to what happened at his job? 

While I think it's big of you (and the right thing to do) to accept your part of the blame in the state your relationship is now in, I think you are making that a reason so as not to push him for answers. You keep saying you deserve this ( or something to that effect). No, you don't. You were depressed. Depressed people don't deserve bad things to happen to them.

I think you should have a Come to Jesus meeting with him. Quit tiptoeing. It's not fair that he's giving you these mixed messages. Yall need to get it all on the table. Actually, he does. He's the one who is keeping secrets from you. He can't have it both ways--telling you he's no longer sexually attracted to you, then acts surprised when you pull away. How are you supposed to respond?

That is to say an affair should not be ruled out. But he was in despair after he was charged. Understandable. His career was gone. You two made it through, got a new business going, then you got depressed. It's been a really long road. I do hope both of you can agree to go to marriage counseling bc I do think that would be a huge benefit. Both of you sound extremely exhausted and depressed.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

temet nostre said:


> Florence1 wrote that he had a morning erection that is a sign that the level of testosterone is okay.


I would personally prefer to decide on blood test results, but that’s just me. :grin2:


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why in the world would you stick around and tolerate this?? From him or from any other man? What a jerk.


They say love is blind.

They also say it's deaf and dumb, as well.

JMHO.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Florence1 said:


> I certainly wish he'd never gotten involved, but I do believe he was naively trying to help, I don't think he did anything maliciously or was trying to get himself charged with a crime, or to blow up our lives, or even looking for an excuse to leave the job (although this is possible because he was getting burned out of teaching by then).


Florence, I know your natural response is to be his cheerleader and defend him to the death and come up all kinds of reasons for why he's a _victim_ and too 'naive' to know what he was doing, but in your efforts to paint him as the saint you want to believe he is, you brought up all kinds of scenarios I didn't even mention. I never insinuated that he was doing anything 'maliciously,' nor did I insinuate that he might have been 'trying' to get himself charged with a crime as an excuse to leave his job, or any of the other things you said. 

I said, and I stand by it, that he's not a victim and he's not an innocent little pawn who had no clue what was going on. In your need to defend him to me to the death, you conveniently overlooked the fact that he'd overstepped with that kid BEFORE he talked to the principal and he CHOSE to continue overstepping after their phone conversation. And the principal didn't "make" your husband do *anything* according to what you wrote. He SUGGESTED it. Nowhere in your narrative did you say the principal told your husband if he didn't do it, he would be fired. 

You really need to stop defending this guy and making him out to be a victim. He's a grown MAN capable of making his own decisions and he made them - to the detriment of your financial stability and to his own career. He did this HIMSELF. 

Loving and being loyal to your spouse is *one* thing. Swallowing your dignity and your pride and continually allowing a man to **** all over you JUST so you can continue being in his glorified orbit is an entirely different thing.

Where has all this blind loyalty to him gotten you? It's won you a husband who refuses to touch you and wants nothing to do with you romantically, and it's won you an outdoor trip to the sidewalk at 3 am with Mr. Wonderful himself, _just_ so he could tell you how he's _not_ feeling you anymore. And you're STILL defending him.

You'll give this guy your life savings, you'll desperately cling to him like grim death and blindly defend his foolish behavior over and over and over, and you've even claimed that you really wouldn't blame Mr. Wonderful if he DID have an affair because of YOUR bad behavior (which doesn't include infidelity). Good Lord. If this guy committed a felony you'd still be trying to find ways to take the blame FOR him or paint him as a victim of circumstance.

Keep defending him, Florence. You *see* where it's gotten you so far, right? Kicked in the face is where it's gotten you. And your blind devotion is going to *continue *to get you kicked in the face.

I will just say good luck to you. You'll need it with this guy.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Florence1 said:


> I certainly wish he'd never gotten involved, but I do believe he was naively trying to help, I don't think he did anything maliciously or was trying to get himself charged with a crime, or to blow up our lives, or even looking for an excuse to leave the job (although this is possible because he was getting burned out of teaching by then). After all that happened, I took it upon myself to learn about teen s****** (I am going to assume that word triggered my posts to be put into moderation but you know what I mean) and it turns out that while attempts are very common, they very rarely actually succeed, so chances are very good that the whole thing was a total waste of energy. I think he just panicked at the thought of one of his students being s****dal. I think it's human to do that, though. I knew about the situation at the time, because he told me, and I remember talking about it in detail with him, but he never indicated that it was illegal to talk about it with the student (I don't think he even knew that it was, or that most people know that, as it's a strange law. I had no idea. It wasn't illegal where I'm from.) Obviously if we could go back in time, he would have made himself scarce and stayed out of the kid's path, but unfortunately that's not what happened.
> 
> Do I get tired of pandering to him... I don't know, I don't think of it that way I suppose. I acknowledge that he's much more hard-working than I am. I have very low energy. He can work 20 hour days, I get tired after 4 hours. In our current life situation, that's probably the most useful personality trait for one of us to have. I'm nice, but I'm not that much use at running the business.


What an honest and fair minded person you are.
This is a rare quality in people.

People see your justness as a weakness. 

Yes, it can be, in that other people will often take advantage of you.

....................................

Find out why you tire so easily.

Are you very much overweight?
Do you have diabetes?

I could list a large number of maladies that are, or add to the causes of low energy.
Certain medications have as a side affect, fatigue.
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, that elusive condition!

You may need a full body examination, with a full panel of blood and urine checks, to rule out any health reasons and problems.



Lilith-


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Yes I think he can fall back in love with you. Yea I think you can save your marriage. But I think that you should focus right now on falling back in love with yourself, and becoming you again. You need to be your own person. Have your own friends and Hobbies, you need to get motivated and excited about life again. 
Remember, your a whole person with a whole life and your marriage is just a small part of it. Don’t make him your life. 

Your so young and you have everything going for you. Wake up on a positive note. Set goals. Eat good, workout. Get dressed. Take control of your own life. Stop focusing so much on him. Trust me. Be this happy, positive, and magnetic person that people want to be around. Be someone that you want to be around. 

Right now you are so focused on him, and his problems, and your problemS. You can’t control him. You can’t control his misdemeanor, his sleep walks, his depression. You can’t control how he feels. All you can do is focus on yourself. Trust me, once you become this happy, healthy, well balanced, good work ethic, confident person you become the prize and he will want some of that. He will crawl back into bed with you and he will want to make you happy. Then when that happens, YOU can decide if he is worth it enough for you, if he is trying enough for you, if you even really love him. Because right now you are feeling bad about yourself, your self esteem is low, and you feel like you NEED him. 

Don’t worry about him right now. Don’t worry if he has cheated on you. Don’t give him all your power. That’s why he says he doesn’t love you right now because you gave away your power and stopped being your own person. Focus on you. Listen to uplifting empowering music. Set goals. Stop following him around like a pathetic dog.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I truly hope this is depression on his part.

And, it is not that his hose has found itself in another woman's warm depression.

At this point, it is 'not' at all evident.

A thought has come to me. Can he be secretly gay?


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> Have you thought that he may not have pursued his erection because you guys are at an awkward stage right now.


Yes, this is what I assume is the case.



> If you touch his erection while he is voluntarily naked beside you that is hardly rape. Ever think he wants you to have sex? Maybe he's afraid of being turned down. Look I get it. I also like to feel desired. I like my husband to initiate. But it's a far jump from I'd like him to do it to if I touch my husband erection I'm a rapist. He can say no. And if he does then you know there is more work on the relationship. Or there is an affair partner.


I agree that it isn't rape or illegal, but I'm not sure that it's fair or appropriate.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you can fall in and out of love with the same person. Perhaps he will do that with you. Perhaps. For you, though, I wouldn't constantly offer myself up as his guinea pig. I wouldn't sleep naked with him or walk around naked in front of him. If my husband gave me the ILYBNILWY speech, I wouldn't be in the same bed with him.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> After reading post #8, I think your H is so traumatized about what happened at his job. I know I would be. All that hard work and accolades down the drain. I'd be so bitter. And there hasn't been an ending after what, 4 years now? So he (and you) have been in limbo for 4 years. That's terrible. You are both waiting for the other shoe to drop legally. What an awful way to live.


Yes this is a good summing up of how it is for both of us. I still sometimes get panicky when the phone rings. I doubt I'll ever truly, entirely 100% get over what a severe upset to our lives that was. And it could go on for more years. We have no endpoint. The lawyer wants to drag it out as long as possible since H will retire when it's over, and at that point he won't be getting paid his teacher's salary any longer. Unless he decides to go back to teaching, but we'd have to close the business and he'd have to be struck by lightning to want to do that again. He practically breaks out in hives at the thought of it.



> It's clear that your H is a keeper of secrets. He hasn't told his family about it, he didn't tell you about his IC appt. in May of this year. What else is he not telling you? Could there be more to what happened at his job?


He absolutely is a keeper of secrets and it's one of the things that scares me the most about him. He knew for example that I am hardcore anti-smoking, he smoked before we met, not a lot but some. He smoked in 2018 and I found out and I was devastated, he'd been hiding it. He claimed it was because he was so stressed with work which obviously he was. I don't believe he intentionally smoked cigarettes in secret in order to get one over on me. I think he just didn't want the confrontation and wanted to do it and I wasn't around. As far as what happened at his job, no, I know what happened, I paid the lawyer myself and I was present at meetings, I've read the paperwork, I was with him in the psych hospital. 

However I will say this: initially they wrote three charges or three counts (sorry, I don't know exactly what they are called in English because English isn't used here) that were very similar to each other. I knew about that as it was part of the paperwork back in 2016. About a year later, they dropped one because there wasn't any evidence for it. About 18 months later, they dropped another one for the same reason. Neither time did he have to show up anywhere (we now live very far away from that jurisdiction). But he didn't tell me about these two charges being dropped until later because he was hoping the 3rd would be too and he could tell me at that time. Even though it was obviously good news. The lawyer told us initially that they usually write up all the charges they can think of and then when they have time they investigate on their end and drop stuff as it becomes clear that there's nothing there. Either they think the 3rd one has some weight or else they haven't gotten around to investigating it. I have no idea and neither does our lawyer. The whole situation is very third world. I'm from an advanced western country and a lot of this stuff blows me away with how backward it is. 



> You were depressed. Depressed people don't deserve bad things to happen to them.


Of course not, but we are married and it would have been nice for him to have a partner who was doing closer to half the work instead of maybe a fifth.



> I think you should have a Come to Jesus meeting with him. Quit tiptoeing. It's not fair that he's giving you these mixed messages. Yall need to get it all on the table. Actually, he does. He's the one who is keeping secrets from you. He can't have it both ways--telling you he's no longer sexually attracted to you, then acts surprised when you pull away. How are you supposed to respond?


He initiated this sort of discussion last night over text. It lasted well over an hour, paragraphs back and forth. He expressed a lot of feelings of guilt, including feeling guilty for not feeling sexually attracted to me, but he thinks he did the right thing by telling me. I'm not sure that's true. I realized as we were talking that in 2016, when he was a basket case, I didn't feel sexually attracted to him. I didn't tell him that (he was so vulnerable!) but it was the case. However it returned. We had sex for the first time after the school thing happened, on the day I bought the business, because we were both so terrified. That was about 8 months drought. I really didn't see him sexually for those 8 months. But it came back naturally when he wasn't a basket case anymore. He acted like this was proof that it will come back for him as well. I guess I have to admit I was wrong that it can't come back since I'm remembering that it actually happened to me. I just didn't think about it in those terms because it was my daily life and it came back naturally.



> That is to say an affair should not be ruled out. But he was in despair after he was charged. Understandable. His career was gone. You two made it through, got a new business going, then you got depressed. It's been a really long road. I do hope both of you can agree to go to marriage counseling bc I do think that would be a huge benefit. Both of you sound extremely exhausted and depressed.


It's been a very hard 4 years. There are people reading this and seeing him as worthless as a partner but of course they weren't there to see a man working 16-20 hour days 7 days/week for 3 years to get our business off the ground, or how he supported me through struggles of my own, or how deeply in love we were for years. We had a lot of dreams together and they did get smashed but he worked hard to try to rebuild and I respect that. He gave me 3 years to convalesce and I think he just hit a wall.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Florence, I know your natural response is to be his cheerleader and defend him to the death and come up all kinds of reasons for why he's a _victim_ and too 'naive' to know what he was doing, but in your efforts to paint him as the saint you want to believe he is, you brought up all kinds of scenarios I didn't even mention. I never insinuated that he was doing anything 'maliciously,' nor did I insinuate that he might have been 'trying' to get himself charged with a crime as an excuse to leave his job, or any of the other things you said.
> 
> I said, and I stand by it, that he's not a victim and he's not an innocent little pawn who had no clue what was going on. In your need to defend him to me to the death, you conveniently overlooked the fact that he'd overstepped with that kid BEFORE he talked to the principal and he CHOSE to continue overstepping after their phone conversation. And the principal didn't "make" your husband do *anything* according to what you wrote. He SUGGESTED it. Nowhere in your narrative did you say the principal told your husband if he didn't do it, he would be fired.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty much going to agree with STGI, ok he chose the path and there were results because of it. Now most here could have been in a pickle because of it , example l was a blackout drunk! And if l let the world beat me down I would still been drinking, it has been 27 yrs alcohol free so the point I am trying to make is I didn't let my issues or worldly problems kick my butt to lone put on my big boy boots on and moved forward.

I was going to give some sympathy for him but STGI, is the wakeup call you need, he can and should move forward with his life and love you as a husband and a man, if not you need to make the decision are you going to settle or expect more from your lover, friend and husband? Time to water the flames out that hold you back.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> you conveniently overlooked the fact that he'd overstepped with that kid BEFORE he talked to the principal and he CHOSE to continue overstepping after their phone conversation. And the principal didn't "make" your husband do *anything* according to what you wrote. He SUGGESTED it. Nowhere in your narrative did you say the principal told your husband if he didn't do it, he would be fired.


I don't believe that he did overstep. I would have done the same thing. (Not now -- but only because now I know that teens don't follow through. At the time, however, I did believe that, and I would have done what he did. I used to be a teacher myself and I know myself well enough to know I'd have done pretty much the same thing. It's hard for me to blame him for doing what I would have done in the same position. As far as "he wouldn't have been fired if he'd said no" that's certainly true, he wasn't fired for doing it either, he's still being paid every month. But the point was that he did what he thought was morally right. I think your reaction is a bit over the top, but I don't know you so maybe there's something I'm not getting. 



> You really need to stop defending this guy and making him out to be a victim. He's a grown MAN capable of making his own decisions and he made them - to the detriment of your financial stability and to his own career. He did this HIMSELF.


Yes, he made decisions that he regrets and I wish he hadn't made. My life would be easier if I'd married an infallible man, I grant you that one.



> Loving and being loyal to your spouse is *one* thing. Swallowing your dignity and your pride and continually allowing a man to **** all over you JUST so you can continue being in his glorified orbit is an entirely different thing.


That's fair, I won't disagree with you. You're reading my thoughts written hours after getting hit with a disclosure I wasn't expecting, and bear in mind I am suffering from depression myself. 



> Where has all this blind loyalty to him gotten you? It's won you a husband who refuses to touch you and wants nothing to do with you romantically, and it's won you an outdoor trip to the sidewalk at 3 am with Mr. Wonderful himself, _just_ so he could tell you how he's _not_ feeling you anymore. And you're STILL defending him.


Well, he does touch me. We sleep naked together and cuddle and kiss a great deal over the past few days, increasingly, but no sexual intercourse. But I get your point. I gave him a hard time about the 3am trip and he pointed out that he didn't schedule his panic attack but yes it was a very rough experience. I don't want to defend that part.



> You'll give this guy your life savings, you'll desperately cling to him like grim death and blindly defend his foolish behavior over and over and over, and you've even claimed that you really wouldn't blame Mr. Wonderful if he DID have an affair because of YOUR bad behavior (which doesn't include infidelity). Good Lord. If this guy committed a felony you'd still be trying to find ways to take the blame FOR him or paint him as a victim of circumstance.


Well, that was 2 days ago. Give me a second to catch my breath, will you?


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> What an honest and fair minded person you are.
> This is a rare quality in people.
> 
> People see your justness as a weakness.
> ...


Thank you, that is a kind thing to say. I do think I can be taken advantage of. But at the same time I try to be somewhat cautious. For example the business is entirely in my name and he has no access to my pre-marital assets, they aren't even in his country. I didn't do that to be shady but rather because it's simpler, better for tax purposes, and more financially protected, but the result is the same.



> Find out why you tire so easily.
> 
> Are you very much overweight?
> Do you have diabetes?
> ...


Unfortunately this is more easily said than done. Over the past 2 years, I've spent a fortune on an endocrinologist, rheumatologist, and other specialists trying to find out why I have no energy. Beyond some vitamin deficiencies (that, when fixed, made no apparent difference), they can't figure out why. I'm on no medications except vitamins. I've had exam after exam, I definitely don't have diabetes, I had not just the regular tests for that but extra and more intense tests in case it was lurking somehow, I was even hospitaiized for weakness in 2018 where they ran pages and pages (single lines) of tests, and found nothing beyond some elevated indicator of inflammation but no clue what it is. I've decided I'm done with chasing this because the doctors simply can't figure it out, and I'm back to square one minus all the money I spent. It's probably just the depression.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I think that you should focus right now on falling back in love with yourself, and becoming you again. You need to be your own person. Have your own friends and Hobbies, you need to get motivated and excited about life again.


Interestingly, this is essentially what he told me himself last night. It's dawning on me that I was very uninteresting and had become so small that he couldn't find me attractive. He says I'm beautiful, and a lot of other complimentary things, but those don't mean as much as being a whole person with a full life. This is something I did not really understand. 



> Your so young and you have everything going for you. Wake up on a positive note. Set goals. Eat good, workout. Get dressed. Take control of your own life. Stop focusing so much on him. Trust me. Be this happy, positive, and magnetic person that people want to be around. Be someone that you want to be around.


This seems like very sensible advice. Thank you.



> Trust me, once you become this happy, healthy, well balanced, good work ethic, confident person you become the prize and he will want some of that. He will crawl back into bed with you and he will want to make you happy. Then when that happens, YOU can decide if he is worth it enough for you, if he is trying enough for you, if you even really love him. Because right now you are feeling bad about yourself, your self esteem is low, and you feel like you NEED him.


When we fell in love, I had these very strong feelings that I couldn't live without him. Normal people, I'm told, grow out of that eventually, but I didn't. I still feel the same way I did 10 years ago -- that I would drop dead if something happened to him, etc. My self esteem has always been low in some areas and high in others, for example, I don't think of myself as particularly physically attractive but I have a high opinion of myself in some other areas like being very good at certain things (vague, but I mean that I don't hate myself across the board or anything).



> Don’t give him all your power. That’s why he says he doesn’t love you right now because you gave away your power and stopped being your own person. Focus on you. Listen to uplifting empowering music. Set goals. Stop following him around like a pathetic dog.


Given that we have a particularly pathetic dog who follows us around, this image is very powerful. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me, I really appreciate you for that.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

So what was the takeaway from your text convo last night? And, why didn't you talk face to face? Boy he sure is conflict avoidant, isn't he?


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> Can he be secretly gay?


I guess anyone could be secretly anything, but this one I doubt. I haven't seen any evidence of it in 10 years, and he's not from a homophobic milieu. I guess 95% of men are straight, when things were good, they were very very good, so I think he's just a straight man going through some ****. But what do I know, not much, right?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Florence1 said:


> Interestingly, this is essentially what he told me himself last night. It's dawning on me that I was very uninteresting and had become so small that he couldn't find me attractive. He says I'm beautiful, and a lot of other complimentary things, but those don't mean as much as being a whole person with a full life. This is something I did not really understand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am very similar to you. I give my all when I am with someone and often lose myself and make them my life. It’s not healthy. It’s co dependent. 

Also you should look into Esther pearl and some of her advise about being in a relationship but maintaining desire for each other.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> So what was the takeaway from your text convo last night? And, why didn't you talk face to face? Boy he sure is conflict avoidant, isn't he?


We didn't talk face to face because he messaged me from work after I went home. I went home at 7pm, he worked until about 11pm. We texted between 7:30 and 9:20 or so last night. I suppose he could have waited until he got home but I will say I really appreciated getting the texts as he initiated the conversation and it gave us a chance to talk about things in a calm manner and I could read and re-read his texts without rewriting his half of the conversation in my mind.

The takeaway -- 

I don't know how to sum it all up but some things he said, these are direct quotes but I had to translate them because we don't speak English to each other, I erred on the side of accuracy instead of style:

"I love you very much, Florence1. If I didn't love you, I wouldn't have been in torment like this the past few days. You are the best thing that ever happened to me. We have been through amazing and very difficult things together. But always together. That's what we need here too - to be together like we have been the past few days. You've seen how much I've calmed down compared to Saturday night..."

"I don't want to harm you either, or myself. We'll work this out, my love. Love always wins."

"You don't deserve all this. During the time I was becoming distant because I was somewhere else all day with a completely different life from yours, you were at home dependent on me. And I know that I have harmed you over the past few years. I know how much you have struggled on my behalf. And I've struggled all these years not to weigh you down with responsibilities that were too much for you, but I reached the point where I was acting like you weren't an equal partner to me. And it was my mistake that I allowed that to happen."

"Believe in yourself, my love. You are worthy/capable of anything... Stand on your own two feet. I'm here to help you. I love you and you're my wife. I don't want to lose you. That is for sure. Even without sexual passion, I don't see you as a roommate Florence1, you are my life partner."

(Sorry, he said a lot more than that but my computer is acting weird and if I don't post this now, when I try to open messenger, I think I might lose this post, so I'll post this and then if I find something else worth sharing I'll post it in a separate comment.)


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Florence1 said:


> ...
> 
> "Believe in yourself, my love. You are worthy/capable of anything... Stand on your own two feet. I'm here to help you. I love you and you're my wife. I don't want to lose you. That is for sure. Even without sexual passion, I don't see you as a roommate Florence1, you are my life partner."


And if you tell him that lack of sexual passion is a deal-breaker? That you didn't sign up for life as best-friends-forever-without-benefits?

If he cannot understand how saying "even without sexual passion" would hurt you, there's no path forward. That's different from him not having sexual passion. Not having sexual passion might be, maybe, curable. But not understanding or relating to how you feel about it, probably not. If he can understand what it does to you, then sex therapy might be helpful.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Some more quotes from our conversation last night, all said by him. I'm not going to bother putting my side of it, it's probably not necessary.

"You deserve [an erotic relationship] more than I do. You're a much better person, and much more mature. If one of the two of us deserves an erotic relationship, it's you. I'm the ******* here."

[after I told him I assume he's having an affair]

"I'm not having an affair, Florence 1. If you don't want to believe me on that, what can I say. If I were having an affair, I would have told you." ... "I told you what I feel. It isn't about my relationship to other women. It's about my relationship with you. I couldn't have an affair Florence1. And I understand how all this is for you. I have empathy. I'm telling you that the substance of the problem is the emotional distance. Even if that's only happened on my side. That's what I'm trying to rediscover with you. To get to know you again. And we've been doing very well at this over the past few days! I know that this is torturing you. I'm sorry. It's hard for both of us for different reasons."

"You should act however you feel! Do what your body tells you. That's what I'm doing. We can't go against what we feel." ... "What's the 'worst thing' that you think about when I go out?"

[after I say it's that he won't come back]

"!!!!!!!!!!! Are you nuts??????? (my spontaneous response!) Of course I'll come back. You're my partner. 10 years together don't go poof because I'm not feeling passion from my side. I'm telling you again exactly what the problem is from my side in our relationship. That's it. Period. Everything else is in your imagination."

"We're saying more or less the same thing... but hold onto what I actually say when you think about it... Don't chuck that out and think only about what I told you Saturday night [at 3am] and end up manufacturing your own scenarios."

[after I said that his panic attack/weird behavior aren't adequately explained by 'the spark has gone out']

"They are adequately explained, my love. When you feel guilty for what you *don't* feel for an incredible person like you who has done everything for you, it's emotionally wearing. I had to tell you, but I didn't want to, but it was the right thing to do. I swallowed it in case I could come up with a solution in the meantime. But I had to tell you and I did it, even if it was in the way that I did it. And I'm glad because I've stopped feeling like I have to protect you from my feelings. I realized after I told you that it was in fact the right thing to do. I was scared, Florence1. Fear is the worst counselor. But I'm chicken****, I know, I am trying to change that, to improve myself."

"Florence1, millions of couples go through this kind of crisis. It doesn't mean it's not fixable."

[after I asked him if he wanted to go to marriage counseling]

"Not yet. If necessary later, yes. I think we can pull out of this on our own. I already feel better Florence1. I'm not like I was. Yesterday I *wanted* to sleep together [meaning sleep, not sex]. And I couldn't have fallen asleep without you beside me... doesn't that count for something?"

[after I told him that I felt bad about him sleeping on the couch in 2016]

"Florence1 many times I got up from our bed on my own or you asked me to leave [this is true, sadly]. And you never, not one time, came to sleep in our bed together like last night [actually I did the night before that too]. You didn't want it that much. What matters is that yesterday we both wanted to. Tonight we'll see. Step by step, my love."

[after I reiterated I had meant back in 2016]

"That belongs to the distant past. Not so much from a chronological perspective but from a psychological one for me. I am a completely different person from that [his name]."

[after I told him how helpless I felt with him sleeping on the couch with the dog]

"I felt security on the couch. Like I wouldn't disturb you. I slept and woke at random times and I watched shows and practiced avoidance. I just wanted to wake up and push a button on the TV. If I could have not had to pee I wouldn't have done that either."

[after I told him "I didn't see you erotically then, you were like a baby"]

"See? Something similar happened to me now." ... "I'm glad you didn't see me erotically then. I was so pathetic that it would have been bizarre if you had."

[after I talked about how I bought the business so he could have a new life, new career]

"It's done. That isn't changing. We move forward on the basis of the choices we made. And I'm doing everything I can in defense of those choices."

[I say, "I bought it for you"]

"I thank you sincerely. And it helped me psychologically. But not you. You sacrificed yourself for me and I know that. Don't think that doesn't weigh on me."

[I blather on for ages about how much I wanted to spend the money on a house for us instead and it was my big dream]

"Dreams are beautiful things, my love. For me it was nice to think about that too. But in the course of events it didn't work out the way we had wanted it to back then. We have to adjust and to be flexible. Supposedly along with the dream about the house, we were both going to finish our doctorates [we didn't]. Everything changes over time. Conditions change. And feelings change as a result of the conditions." ... "Tell me your dreams, my love... what are they today?"

[I say I just have nightmares now]

"What can I say. I'm sorry... Live day by day, we'll work this out."

[after I say I hope I'm as lucky as he is that his spouse fell back in love with him]

"Yes. I hope that too and I believe inside that it will happen. Do you think it was wrong of me to tell you how I felt?"

[I say yes, and that it was an act of cruelty]

"An act of cruelty during my panic attack? I was suffering Florence1. I disagree that it was an act of cruelty." ... "If you can, put yourself in my position. I understand that it hurt. But on the other hand, you had told me once that the worst thing for you was for you to thnk that everything was perfect, and years later for me to tell you that all along I hadn't been happy."

[I concede that this is true]

"In any case, I told you because I couldn't have done otherwise that night. Perhaps today I would act differently." ... "I'm not abandoning you. You immediately started to work on fixing this. [Back in 2016 when he was in my shoes] I was totally helpless. You are acting! And even if it could have been done painlessly, at least it did happen and it worked." ... "Did I ever say I was leaving you?"

[I said, you destroyed my sense of security in the relationship]

"And my own sense of security that you aren't going to kick me out of the house and your business, Florence1." ... "Can you see this as a spur for us to be better? Can you see the positive side?" ... "And can you not put on two sides of a scale how helpless I was back then with how you are now?" ... "Your passion came back. Why wouldn't mine?" ... "You're doing great this week. I feel better already. What else can I say? If you think that you're not being yourself and you're doing all this just for me, then yes, that would be a problem, naturally. I don't want you to change who you are. I want you to become a part of my life."

[after I say, it's the first time in 10 years I am imagining our relationship to be not-permanent]

"Handle it. Spur yourself to action. And if you can't handle it, communicate with me so we can find the best solution for you and me. We're not in this relationship to hurt each other. I want us to solve this. I'm scared too. But I'm here and I'm trying. I'm not allowing any fear to paralyze me. I let that happen a few years ago." ... "And please know that as much as I was loved, you were loved that much again. That is historical fact and nothing will change that. I'll come home when I close and I'll hold you. (heart emoji)"

[we talk about minutiae like putting the heated mattress pad on the bed, end of conversation more or less]


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I find it curious that he keeps secrets from you, yet he told you that he's not sexually attracted to you. Why not keep that a secret too? I don't get it.

Are you ok with him saying no to marital counseling (MC) right now? If so, do you think you should put an end date to it? Say, if this doesn't get better in ____ months, we are going?

There is SO much going on. I just don't have hope that this will get resolved without professional counseling. Both of you are suffering so much. You're not even remotely on the same page.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> I find it curious that he keeps secrets from you, yet he told you that he's not sexually attracted to you. Why not keep that a secret too? I don't get it.


Well I guess he did, for a while, until he didn't want to anymore. He has a hard time telling me (or other people) things he knows will upset them. 



> Are you ok with him saying no to marital counseling (MC) right now? If so, do you think you should put an end date to it? Say, if this doesn't get better in ____ months, we are going?


I have no confidence in marriage counseling, so I don't care much either way. I have been to multiple therapists and every one of them was a complete waste of money. I think it's weird he's as open to IC as he is.



> There is SO much going on. I just don't have hope that this will get resolved without professional counseling. Both of you are suffering so much. You're not even remotely on the same page.


I'm envisioning how many billable hours a therapist would have to listen to to get up to speed and despairing. But I'm not a quitter and I don't think he is either. I think he did this in a very ham-handed way but I'm also oversensitive and catastrophize things. 

I had been away from TAM for years and had forgotten how blistering the responses here are. It was so long ago I can't even remember my login from before. It sure is different when you're on the other end of things. I think my personality is ill-suited to the intensity of some of these responses, they're making me defensive which is probably the opposite of what I need. But I do want to thank everyone who has taken an interest in my situation.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Florence1 said:


> I had been away from TAM for years and had forgotten how blistering the responses here are. It was so long ago I can't even remember my login from before. It sure is different when you're on the other end of things. I think my personality is ill-suited to the intensity of some of these responses, they're making me defensive which is probably the opposite of what I need. But I do want to thank everyone who has taken an interest in my situation.



No l believe your just a normal, normal woman who wishes for the best. But at this time only sees the picture from a different set of eyes. When we get wounded it's only natural to get defensive. Don't give up here keep reading all the post but use what can help you and leave the rest. I only desire for you to be complete. And just seeing things in a different light may give you strength in the ways to benefit you.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Florence1 said:


> Well I guess he did, for a while, until he didn't want to anymore. He has a hard time telling me (or other people) things he knows will upset them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm getting the feeling your husband is massively effective at manipulation, but I don't have a clue as to his game.

As for your feelings about IC & MC, I don't really think you have a choice. Unlike what your husband suggests, you are NOT going to get through this without outside help. In my opinion, he desperately doesn't want to introduce a third party that sees him for what he is.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Florence1 said:


> I'm envisioning how many billable hours a therapist would have to listen to to get up to speed and despairing. But I'm not a quitter and I don't think he is either. I think he did this in a very ham-handed way but I'm also oversensitive and catastrophize things.


I think a good therapist isn't going to get wrapped up in every detail, she will concentrate on the big picture. I think what happened to H is awful, but he isn't reacting to it well. His decision that you are better off w/o his affection reminds me of people who commit suicide believing their loved ones are better off w/o them. Many of them really believe that, but they couldn't be more wrong. A good therapist is likely to call him on this and point out you want to be on his side but he is turning away from you. 


> I had been away from TAM for years and had forgotten how blistering the responses here are. It was so long ago I can't even remember my login from before. It sure is different when you're on the other end of things. I think my personality is ill-suited to the intensity of some of these responses, they're making me defensive which is probably the opposite of what I need. But I do want to thank everyone who has taken an interest in my situation.


Keep in mind what the qualifications to give advice here are. If you get one piece of advice that helps you and a bunch that make you mad, you got a bunch that were worth what you paid and one that was a bargain. That's coming out ahead.

Here is what gives me the most optimism- "I'm not a quitter and I don't think he is either." That comes out in all of your posts, and it gives you a lot of chances.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

A few random questions, if you are willing to answer.

How did you meet?

How much time did you spend together before getting married?

Is he from a drastically different culture than yours?

Are either of you religious? If you are, do you share the same faith, and has that always been the case?

Are you sure he doesn’t want kids?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Sweetheart, my heart aches for you. I literally want to slap the arrogance out of him. Grrrr.

Were you cruel to him when HE was depressed? The way he is cruel to you? Give me 5 minutes with him....

While I too think it admirable of you to own your share of what's happening at the moment, I do feel that you are shouldering FAR too much of the blame. You are his wife. His life partner. He chose you to share his life. If he was feeling this way for a while, he should have spoken up to you. He should also have worded it much more carefully. Gee, he's feeling better now. Your self worth has been thumped out of you but hey, he's feeling better so that's all that matters right?

Please don't allow him to let you live in this limbo. You do have some power here and some control over the situation. I really hope that once a few days have passed, that your anger will kick in and you'll start laying down some friggin rules, starting with MC IMMEDIATELY or you're outta there.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Florence1,

I really feel for you in this situation. It's clearly very hard on you.

From what your husband said, he's a lost soul right now and has no idea what's going on in his own head. He is going to have to solve that on his own. 

At this point, I think you would benefit by putting a lot of effort into yourself. That does not mean that you have to abandon your husband, it just means that you need to nurture yourself so that you grow stronger.

One thing that I see in your conversation with your husband that you posted above is that while he might feel lost (not sure if that's the right word), he is clearly secure in your love for him. This makes it easy for him to wallow in his confusion or misery because he feels safe. He's focused on himself. You are focused on him. He's a lucky guy. You are, however, not so lucky right now.

Turn your focus on yourself. What can you do to make yourself feel stronger? How can you take care of yourself better? What can you do to inspire positive changes in your relationship?

I agree with you about counselors. Many of them are just not very good. I have found that often books are more helpful. There is one that I think would be very helpful for you: *"Divorce Busting: A Step-by-Step Approach to Making Your Marriage Loving Again"* by Michele Weiner-Davis. 

The only person you can change is yourself. However, if you change in positive ways, you will inspire changes in your relationship and in your husband.

There is a study that I read about some time ago. The research was focused on couples who said that they were very unhappy in their marriages. Five years later, 85% of the couples said that they had worked through their problems and were now very happy. My point is that it's completely possible to fix your marriage. In marriage, love ebbs and flows. You have been in a rough spot for a while, but it can be repaired with some work and some luck.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Spicy said:


> A few random questions, if you are willing to answer.
> 
> How did you meet? How much time did you spend together before getting married?


We were both in a shared interest group, we met and got to know each other about 5 years before we got engaged. We were only engaged for 5 months before we got married for immigration reasons, I would have been deported if we didn't get married so we did. 



> Is he from a drastically different culture than yours?


Not drastically. Different yes, but not ridiculously so.



> Are either of you religious? If you are, do you share the same faith, and has that always been the case?


We were both atheists long before we met and both still are. We also share all the same political positions although that wasn't always the case (I'm the one who ended up agreeing with his positions rather than the other way around). The main ideological difference between us is that he's a vegetarian and I'm a flexitarian.



> Are you sure he doesn’t want kids?


That's what he says. However he hasn't taken it upon himself to get a vasectomy so maybe he's not 100% sure. However as recently as two weeks ago I asked him if he was regretful that we didn't have kids and he said "I'm so glad we didn't." I'm choosing not to take that as "I'm so glad I didn't have kids with YOU".

His mom told me as recently as 4 days ago on the phone that she thinks I should trick him into getting me pregnant. It goes without saying that this is a preposterous suggestion that I would never take seriously in a thousand years, and she's off her nut to even say it out loud, but anyway I do have the in laws breathing down my neck but I don't let it get to me. I tell her every time she does this that her son doesn't want kids, take it up with him.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

frusdil said:


> Sweetheart, my heart aches for you. I literally want to slap the arrogance out of him. Grrrr.
> 
> Were you cruel to him when HE was depressed? The way he is cruel to you?


Not for a single second, and he's the first to admit that. 



> If he was feeling this way for a while, he should have spoken up to you. He should also have worded it much more carefully. Gee, he's feeling better now. Your self worth has been thumped out of you but hey, he's feeling better so that's all that matters right?


I guess it comes down to, where do you draw the line and say, now it's time to talk and tell her. Because if he had told me the first instant that it dawned on him, maybe that would have been overkill, creating marital discord for no reason. And then it becomes a question of, okay, you didn't tell her the moment it dawned on you, so when is the right time? Is now too late? Should you have done it 4 months ago? Should you have done it 6 months from now? I don't know, and it's pretty clear he doesn't either.



> Please don't allow him to let you live in this limbo. You do have some power here and some control over the situation. I really hope that once a few days have passed, that your anger will kick in and you'll start laying down some friggin rules, starting with MC IMMEDIATELY or you're outta there.


We had a quarrel last night. I guess this is as good a place to write it as anywhere.

He seemed a little down last night compared to the previous night. He took a short nap when he got home from work and asked me to make something like soup. He has having some discomfort in his throat/chest. I made soup and he had that and then later on I went to join him in bed. He got a message on his phone in FB Messenger and I asked him who it was from (me of course worrying it was an AP). He said it was from F (woman's name, never heard of her). I asked who she was, he said she was someone he'd met through our business (so it would make sense I wouldn't know her since I was in absentia). I pressured him about it and he said he had sent her holiday greetings and she had replied, and that was all. I told him I wanted to see and he BLEW UP at me. I was shocked. I wasn't expecting that reaction at all but it seemed like a major red flag to me.

He has always had the belief that each of us is entitled to privacy on our devices, if we had diaries, etc. I don't feel the need for that kind of privacy. It wouldn't bother me if he went through my devices. I have nothing to hide. I have plenty of embarrassing crap on my computer (like time wasting and frivolous stuff) but nothing sexual or betraying. I've also never lied to him. It would make me uncomfortable if he found this thread, but this thread is literally the only thing on my devices that's shady on my part. He has lied to me in the past and acknowledges that. 

So thus began a big discussion about how I think he should WANT to put my mind at ease by him asking me to look through his phone so I don't worry about affairs. And him saying that's paranoia and disrespectful and he would never do that to me (well, yeah, of course not, cause I'm not the one with the past history of lying!). 

He was furious and I haven't seen him like that in years. Literal years, maybe 8 years. He didn't really raise his voice much, but his voice had a coldness to it, almost like he was disgusted with me for being so pathetic/paranoid. Meanwhile I'm sitting there imagining a color guard twirling a hundred huge red flags down Main Street.

Anyway the upshot was I wore him down until he showed me the text messages and it was what he'd said, the most recent message between them was from over a month ago. And he said he wanted to be alone and he was obviously pissed off at me. 

I said, okay, I'll leave you alone but there are no blankets in the guest bedroom (where I used to sleep) because I put them in here because it's been really cold. He said, I don't want you to be cold, stay here, it's fine, we'll just go to sleep. So we both calmed down a lot and we watched TV for a bit and then he said he wanted to sleep, turned off the TV, and was asleep within a minute. I fell asleep maybe half an hour later.

Then this morning he appeared to be over it, things were sweet again, he acknowledged that we'd had a quarrel but he didn't seem to hold a grudge about it. We had a sort-of sexual interaction. I'm not sure how much to detail it but it was like 95% me and he was sort of just watching me. He didn't try to get involved. He said he liked it. I tried not to read too much into anything on either side. I do that every day and I'm not going to allow myself to get overly self-conscious about it. He was pretty fascinated, let's say. But he didn't try to have sex with me. He told me a couple times that I was gorgeous. Okay thanks.

Then later on I made breakfast and walked the dog and he's gone out for coffee and says later we'll go out to eat together, neither of us will go to work today. I think that's everything.

I know already that everyone is going to say that he's protecting his affairs by not showing me his phone, that's the obvious conclusion, and if I can't handle you all writing that, I shouldn't post that it happened. I'm not stupid. He was so ridiculously over the top about it, I was sitting there with my mouth open that he was making it into such a huge deal. I don't understand why he would care if he wasn't trying to hide anything. He was acting like it was some point of honor. At one point I said something like, "if theoretically it were a matter of life and death, would you show me your phone to save my life?" And he said yes, and I said, "okay, so there are limits to this, we just don't know what they are." 

Before that happened, I was feeling hopeful.
During that whole thing, I was feeling absolutely destroyed, like, this is so blatantly obvious, I might as well have walked in on him with another woman.
Afterwards, I just feel tired.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Oh no. I won't belabor the phone incident.

The thing that REALLY bothers me is that you gave him a show without his participation. Under normal circumstances, in a healthy relationship, that's great! But under these circumstances, it just seems off to me. It reeks of desperation.:crying:

ETA: I'm with the others. You need to focus on you and stop focusing on him. You're doing the pick-me dance. Affair or no.


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Just award me "Most Confused Wife 2019" and move on, folks.

Yesterday we had a wonderful dinner out, probably the nicest time I've had with him in years, I almost forgot The Situation. Delightful conversation, truly intellectually stimulating, the kind of conversation that reminds you WHY you fell in love in the first place. We came home to our dog having gone through the recycling and eaten something she definitely should not have, but dealt with it in good humor and she seems none the worse for wear. This morning he wanted me to give him oral sex and I did. (He'd gone into work early, came home, brought breakfast for both of us, and was relaxing in bed with me when that happened.)

I don't know how much is okay to write here so I'll try to keep this minimal but basically, I know his body well enough to know that based on how it ended, he definitely hasn't had sex in a long time. It has to do with the duration of the O. I don't know if other men are like that but in his case there's a very direct relationship between how long that goes on and how long since he's had sex. I think that was the second longest I've ever seen, meaning, against all the other evidence, physiologically he's not having sex with anyone else. His body just doesn't do that. So it's an EA or nothing.

We're both in a weird place.

He definitely wanted me to do it. I didn't suggest it, he shoved my head down there. And physiologically he was perfectly healthy, if you get my drift. When it was over he wanted to take a shower and there wasn't a great deal of cuddling. Maybe 5-10 minutes max. Then we watched soccer and he fell asleep. He wasn't overly affectionate with me. He knows me well enough to know that after sex I like a lot of affection. He said something to the effect that he liked it and he was happy about it, he loved me. 

I walked the dog, a Christmas present arrived, I opened it, showed it to him, he was in a bad mood because of something on TV news. He's in bed watching TV and scrolling through FB. 

It also occurs to me that what he doesn't want me to find on his phone could also be him telling his friends how miserable he is with me or something like that. Well we've already established I have no earthly idea what is happening. I'm giving him space. I think we'll go into work together in a few hours.

I'm not sure how "I'm not sexually attracted to you" and what happened this morning coexist but whatever.


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## temet nostre (Oct 10, 2019)

You must remember that all sexual problems are not because of You, He said "I'm not sexually attracted to you" not because of something wrong with you. Everything happens in his head and he doesn't control it. Do not try to look for a logical motive and effect because you will go insane.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

It breaks my heart that you are performing sex acts for him/to him and you get nothing in return. Unless you're ok with that?


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## Florence1 (Dec 25, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> It breaks my heart that you are performing sex acts for him/to him and you get nothing in return. Unless you're ok with that?


I'm not okay, period.

I don't know if he thought he could push me endlessly or what. I'm angry and although I don't feel like I can leave (the business, etc), it's like he's two different people -- the person he was at dinner last night, whom I married, and this other person that I don't recognize. 

I walked out of the business tonight because I just don't have it in me to be treated callously and disrespectfully. Maybe for a week but humiliation has its limits.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Stop doing things you don’t want to do. If you don’t want to go down on him don’t. And if I were you, I would tell him to go down on you... like today or tomorrow or whenever you want it. He needs a taste of his medicine. Stop bending over backwards and doing whatever he says.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

He said he loves you but is not in love with you that he is not sexually attracted to you but he hasn’t cheated on you YET! Well give the man a star! I don’t know how in the world you continue to sleep with him- naked no less, put on a masturbation performance for him- you say it was for you but you could have done so in private and then you go down on him. Why??? Trying to entice him so blatantly and servicing him on demand is not the way you are going to get him sexually interested in you again. It’s degrading and belittles you. I couldn’t/ wouldn’t have sex with him at all right now.

You are being much too hard on yourself in the mistakes you’ve made. He has made them too. All you can do now which you have is take ownership of them and make the changes you are already making.

Have you even thought about what YOU need from the situation and from him in order to stay with him and determine if this is salvageable? He isn’t the only one who gets to make decisions gets to/ has to make decisions you know that right? You need to sit down and really flesh this out. You need a plan. I think a total reset is in order. I would sleep separately. Start dating again, talking again, connecting again non-sexually and see if in time those feelings come back. Take care of yourself, make time for people and activities without him. Stop looking to him for reassurance, attention, validation. 

You also need to talk about infidelity. He doesn’t get to tell you he doesn’t want you but hasn’t cheated yet and then expect you to trust him! You said you wouldn’t be surprised if he is cheating now or has in the past and you blame yourself if he has. He was no walk in the park either. If you cheated do you think he would give you a pass and say well I guess I deserved it because I wasn’t at my best? Hell no and neither should you! He doesn’t get to blow up at you for questioning him. You need complete transparency from him and he needs to set boundaries. If he gets mad and insulted too bad! He gave you the hard truth now tell him your truth.I don’t know how he expects you to be with him after the things he has shared. Are you afraid he will cheat if you don’t continue “servicing” him while he figures himself out? He has certainly given you reason to fear it and has the nerve to call you paranoid. You need to set him straight and be strong.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

It’s no surprise you’re so confused by all his lovey dovey words. I think you are right in that he’s afraid he’s pushed tiu too far and he wants to make sure you stay put. It keeps you in the wanting to please and accommodate him anyway you can because he knows you are desperate to hold onto him. Don’t put so much weight on those words. Watch how he acts and how he treats you and please - assert yourself!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He’s using you. But you know that.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Let him go. Free yourself.


Yup, he'll be back before you can believe it.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

But, I do not understand.
Because in my relationship (for lack of a word that makes any sense) My partner has been tellin me for years that she is not attracted to me. But not in words. In her behaviors. In here wishy washy lack of commitment. In her studied avoidance tactics. By the things that are important to her. By the long silences. And last week when I said, But you aren't attracted to me, she said, " I don't know why you jump to such conclusions". Then this thread. And I'm thinking. Wow he just said it. No dancing, no veils just "hey, I'm not feeling it for you". 

At least you have a clue of what is going on. I study and observe and experiment and "naw, it's not that". I wish I could get some communication. Some feedback. Somedays I wish I could catch her in an affair. So I could know where I stand.

Well I'm supposed to advise you. You want him to be attracted to you, be attractive. Don't ask me how, apparently I'm a flop at it. Besides I'm the wrong gender. I think some of the things you are doing would catch my eye. (sleeping naked) I think some of the advice you are getting would send me packing. (cutting off sex) But I'm not in your guys situation. I mean I sort of am. I'm emotionally disconnected, If she walked away, I'd clean out the closet and move on. But I am attracted to her, So every time she throws me a crumb, I respond with gusto. Just makes me look even more unattractive begging for table scraps. 

Well I'm sorry you are in this mess. You gotta follow your heart on this one. I think he should get his medications adjusted. He's just not making sense.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

I do commend him for telling the truth but knowing that my husband was no longer sexually attracted to me or in love with me would send me packing. It’s possible if they both work on things- and they both seem to want to, his feeling may come back. However in the interim, if I were to stay and try to work on things there is no way i could be sexual with him knowing he is not attracted or in love with me. I just could not do it but maybe that just me...


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