# Wife texting mild flirting w/old flame for at least 6 months.



## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

I can't believe I am in this situation, I am devastated. But I guess its not unexpected.

I am a 42 year old man, married to my wife for the last 2 years, we've been together for the last 4. We also have two wondering twins that are 1.5 years old. Our marriage however has not been ideal, we argue and have a hard time getting along. I have a VERY bad commute, 5 hours a day and don't see our family much during the week. We've been arguing a lot more lately, I think from the stress of everything and sadly our sex life isn't great.

Guess I can see the writing on the wall.

How we got to today (from last night) - she has a 3 day business trip starting today and I noticed she was taking extra car with shaving her legs and her lady area. I sort of thought that it was a bit strange and I asked her about it. She told me her workmate said they might goto the pool or hottub while they are there, so she wanted to clean up. I commented a couple more times that it was awkward and left it alone. After she went to bed, I went down stairs and looked at her cell phone. I saw text messages from a guy whom I didn't know. I saw that some of them were flirty in content, but not damaging. However, a lot of texts were deleted, I could tell by the timestamps and content of the message. A single word reply at 2p and 5p from him when the last thing said from her was 12p, but his replies were out of context, not relating to what she had said. 

So I confronted her about it, she was asleep, this was last night at 11p. At first she said he was just a friend she was talking to, but admitted to flirting with him, stating it made her feel good. She said that is as far as it went. One thing I noticed when he met up with her, afterwards in text, she apologized for dropping 3 bombs on him. Two were clearly the twins, the 3rd being me, but he said "living with some guy". She clearly didn't communicate she was married, I challenged her on this had she had no good answer. "I don't know and I am sorry". She admitted to [email protected]#!'ing up and apologize, stating she wanted to fix things.

There is no doubt we are very broken, we don't have sex, but its never really come up. She does not communicate with me ever, unless I press for. Last night after going back and forth for hours, I finally said if we were to fix this, she can never talk to him again and we had to got counseling. I demanded that she send him a text first thing stating she was married and could no longer talk to him. I also said I wanted proof this was done, which she did this morning. But the joke could still be on me.

I really don't know what to do and really need some advice. I love her and our kids and don't want to lose my family.

Help?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Your W was on her way to meet this OM. Don't buy the trimming up because a hot tub my be used on her 3 day trip. If a hot tub is in the works it is not with a workmate I can assure you. Your W needs to cancel the "business trip". Her marriage is about to come to an end. She may want to look into saving it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This is bad. And it is all on her.

You need to monitor her.

Is it a genuine business trip?


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

You might want to look into Dr Fone: https://drfone.wondershare.net/ad/p...MI87PngJmg1gIVA6xpCh0U8gHpEAAYASAAEgKDQvD_BwE

Knowing what was in those deleted texts could help you moving forward.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Time to run phone recovery software so you know the extent of what she was up to.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Here's a 3rd vote for running her phone through Dr Fone


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Text the OM yourself, now that you have caught your wife. Tell him that she is married, have young twins, and that you have read their correspondences. She will go underground if given the chance. Working woman here & married for 37 years (first marriage for the both of us). If your wife doesn't cancel her business trip, I believe that a meet up is in the works. On a business trip, I'm so busy that I won't have time to socialize in the pool. How do you know that this is a business trip? It could be a meet up trip. If the OM is married, notify his wife of this affair. Sorry you are here.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Epxss,

Skip the middleman and go right to the OMs spouse or GF.

Save off all your evidence and don't tell ANYONE your game plan.

Tamat


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Honestly, I know you're hurting, but you'd be better off just filing for divorce and moving on. YOur wife doesn't have sex with you and CLEARLY was planning on having sex with her affair partner. If she still went on the "business trip"....... Well, she's having sex him right now. She's a liar, she's a cheater. You can't believe a single thing she says. You saw her send him a text saying she couldn't see him anymore? Well she can easily send a text that she DOES want to see him again. And he will likely not CARE whether she's married. 

Get out. Your marriage is not worth saving. Sounds awful the way you describe it.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

I am still reeling. I talked to her earlier this morning (at work) and asked her the OM responded, she said he responded with 'ok'. Nothing I can do until she gets back, she is still going on the trip today. She is at work right now and will be heading out after lunch, which would be expected. We have Life360 and have had it for some time, I know she doesn't go anywhere odd and is home every night with the twins. Minus a facial and twins meetings, I know where her facial place is and the Life360 locations all add up. 

I will add Dr.fone when she gets back, I am afraid of what i'll find. 

She adamantly there was not much said, getting upset at my repeated asking, claims that she thinks the marriage is worth saving. I talked to one of my workmates this morning, hes gone through the exact same thing with the mother of his first child. I know she crossed the line, I do not know to what extent, but I know I have blame here. We've not had sex in some time and she has tried, my rejecting the approach. I don't think she understands what emotional infidelity is. I can say mean things when I am upset (previous arguments)

Another hard part to this, with her being gone, her mother will be at our house to help watch the kids, our day care is an hour in the opposite direction of where I work.

This is singly the worst day of my life.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

epxss,

I would strongly encourage you to call her and tell her to cancel her trip or you will be visiting an attorney in her absence. If she really thinks the "the marriage is worth saving" ... now is the perfect time to put actions to her words, which are meaningless at this point.

... and I'm not advising you to do anything I didn't do. Right after my D-Day, my W had a prearranged business trip that would put her within driving distance of OM. I told her to call her boss and tell her she would not be able to go. She was reluctant to tell her boss "why", but she realized what she was gambling and made that embarrassing phone call. Time to take back some measure of control over your life.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

You better stop that trip!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

epxss said:


> I am still reeling. I talked to her earlier this morning (at work) and asked her the OM responded, she said he responded with 'ok'. Nothing I can do until she gets back, she is still going on the trip today. She is at work right now and will be heading out after lunch, which would be expected. We have Life360 and have had it for some time, I know she doesn't go anywhere odd and is home every night with the twins. Minus a facial and twins meetings, I know where her facial place is and the Life360 locations all add up.
> 
> I will add Dr.fone when she gets back, I am afraid of what i'll find.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry. I recommend locating a lawyer and begin filing. Take control of the situation. Wake your W up to the reality of what has been done.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Oh hell.....It's after lunch!

Go get her!

She's meeting him I can promise you that!


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> Oh hell.....It's after lunch!
> 
> Go get her!
> 
> She's meeting him I can promise you that!


I agree ... if she's already left, call her and tell her to turn around, if driving, or send her a text and tell her as soon as she lands, to get right back on the return flight, if she's flying, but she needs a strong ULTIMATUM.

... and if she refuses, you really have no recourse but to see an attorney and have her served upon her return.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Red flags all over this. Bet her OM is meeting bro on the trip.

Sorry man but you're getting lies and trickled truthed right and left.

Better wake up.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

MyRevelation said:


> I agree ... if she's already left, call her and tell her to turn around, if driving, or send her a text and tell her as soon as she lands, to get right back on the return flight, if she's flying, but she needs a strong ULTIMATUM.
> 
> ... and if she refuses, you really have no recourse but to see an attorney and have her served upon her return.


Ultimatum won't work but you can try it!

She's too much in the fog.

This is triggering me big time.
Eerily similar to what happened to me.

Stop that meeting!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Where does OM live? In your city?
Where is the business trip location? Driving distance for OM?
Do you know any of the people going with her on the trip?


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

We talked again.

I know most of you may not agree, but I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt. There are reasons for this, mainly on how she had to answer. I do not think should have lied under these circumstances. I think for the most part she is being straight with me, but clearly hid things she knew would upset me. Some of which did indeed upset me. But, I think it is more the OM initiating and flirting, combined with my admitted lack of sexual attention towards her.

I am still doing the Dr.fone and we will attend therapy.

Wish us the best, my family is worth some forgiveness on both parts and effort in reconciling and trying to find some stable ground. If I don't do this on my part, I will never forgive myself for not at least trying.

I love her and I think she loves me.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Here's the thing:

Ladies shave their legs all the time.
Ladies trim their bush..or shave it all the time.
That is part of normal maintenance and hygiene for ladies.
That ,in itself is no biggee.

What is troubling:

You noticed her going above and beyond in her weed wacking. She approached the bushes..for you, troublesome..so it is out of character in your close observations. OK.

The part that is most revealing was her response to your' questioning her shave job.
A normal response would be, yes I am shaving my legs, I always do. What is your problem?

This question caught her off guard. She was the proverbial deer in the headlights. 
She answered lamely about some hot tub. I think the hot tub is a true statement from her. Only POSOM is the one who is going to be in it....Or that is her hope.

You pulled back her Pantie Veil and saw her guilty face.

A women, especially a mother of young children is NOT going to get in a hot tub with another man unless they have already crossed some serious boundaries.
Kissed and groped each other. 

She is not going to do this on a whim. They have both greased the wheels in this affair...some time back.
This may be a consummation of the prior kissing and petting of the still budding affair.
Or it is a continuation of an ongoing physical affair.

During your' six years together this may be one of her other indiscretions?

I may be wrong. I hope so.

Trust me on this.

Just Sayin'


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

epxss said:


> We talked again.
> 
> I know most of you may not agree, but I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt. There are reasons for this, mainly on how she had to answer. I do not think should have lied under these circumstances. I think for the most part she is being straight with me, but clearly hid things she knew would upset me. Some of which did indeed upset me. But, I think it is more the OM initiating and flirting, combined with my admitted lack of sexual attention towards her.
> 
> ...


She's meeting him. I'm sure of it.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

epxss said:


> If I don't do this on my part, I will never forgive myself for not at least trying.


You're right and wrong ... you're right that you're not going to forgive yourself, but you're wrong that it's not for "at least trying" ... it's going to be for doing nothing to stop what is going to happen. 

Dude ... PLEASE ... wake up and listen to the guys that have the experiences they wish they'd never had to have and know much better than you what you are up against. 

Make that call and tell her to get her happy ass home, NOW!!! ... and while you're at it, let your MIL in on her precious daughter's dirty secret, and ask MIL to call her, too. Oh, she'll be uber pissed, but she'll be on her way home. You can deal with her anger, you can't deal with a 3rd person in your marriage.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Before you talk to her again you might want to download a book on detecting lies so that your B.S. detector is focused. 

Here's one that my buddy liked: https://www.slideshare.net/tuknov/never-be-lied-to-again-19104072


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

At least tell the guys wife.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

sokillme said:


> At least tell the guys wife.


This hasn't been established I don't think.

OP doesn't know if he's married or not.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She's telling you the marriage is worth saving in order to keep her security blanket while she screws another man.

I know you are hurting. Don't show weakness. Place yourself in a position to have options by jerking that security blanket out from under her by filing for divorce and having papers waiting on her when she returns, which should be immediately. Otherwise just wish her well with Mr "ok". You know he didn't respond with "ok", I hope.....

If you let fear control your actions for the next few weeks, your wife is gone. That's not a bad thing based on what you describe.

You are taking the blame for your wife's affair. Normal, but the WRONG thing to do. I did it. I'm divorced, too. Had I been stronger I'd have had the option to stay married. I'd have liked to have had the option, anyway.

You giving her the benefit of the doubt is your fear coming through.

Squash that fear and act like a man that can make it on his own and easily find another woman. You can. Do it.

Remember, she shaved her private parts for another man. She is in a trip now, seeing him. Bank on it. A woman doesn't shave that and get all spiffed up for NOT seeing a man. Get out of denial. Yeah, she's done it. You know it. Accept it. Respond with fire and brimstone like you know you should.
Don't let the insecurity, fear if the unknown, fear of being alone, and your crushed ego prevent you from taking the action that you know is called for. You can stop the divorce process at any time. You likely shouldn't. She's a cheater. It won't end here without YOUR strength.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

epxss said:


> We talked again.
> 
> I know most of you may not agree, but I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt. There are reasons for this, mainly on how she had to answer. I do not think should have lied under these circumstances. I think for the most part she is being straight with me, but clearly hid things she knew would upset me. Some of which did indeed upset me. But, I think it is more the OM initiating and flirting, combined with my admitted lack of sexual attention towards her.
> 
> ...


See you in 6 months.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

I called the OM. He didnt pick up, but called me back. I confirmed his identity, told him who I was. He did a oh crap soft laugh. I told I need him to acknowledge he needs to lose my wife's number and to never try to contact her again. He said he didn't have a problem with that. 

Wife is a stupid girl that made a mistake. She gets one chance to make it right.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

epxss said:


> I called the OM. He didnt pick up, but called me back. I confirmed his identity, told him who I was. He did a oh crap soft laugh. I told I need him to acknowledge he needs to lose my wife's number and to never try to contact her again. He said he didn't have a problem with that.
> 
> Wife is a stupid girl that made a mistake. She gets one chance to make it right.


You are confusing a mistake with a choice. What consequences are you giving her? 
None? Prepare, as already said, to be back here in 6 months. You can't reconcile with a remorseless cheater, which is what your wife appears to be.

You're making excuses for her. She's going to make excuses for her. 
Do you realize you're having to call another man to TRY to keep him away from your wife?

If you want another chance, you'd better bring the rain on her parade bigtime and make her think it's never going to stop. Otherwise she will go after more ego-boosting, tasty cake.
Jmo


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

epxss said:


> I called the OM. He didnt pick up, but called me back. I confirmed his identity, told him who I was. He did a oh crap soft laugh. I told I need him to acknowledge he needs to lose my wife's number and to never try to contact her again. He said he didn't have a problem with that.
> 
> Wife is a stupid girl that made a mistake. She gets one chance to make it right.


I've seen this before. He won't stop because your wife doesn't want him to. You're deep in denial. 

Better wake up


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

Y'all are brutal.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

We seem brutal because most have been where you are, and are trying to prevent you from further pain.

He probably oh crap laugh because they are together and could be laughing at you. There needs to be some consequences for her actions if you want to stay in the marriage, and stop it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The truth is what you need. You've never dealt with this but we see it over and over.

Really sorry you're dealing with this but all cheaters lie like hell.

Take care of yourself


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

epxss said:


> I called the OM. He didnt pick up, but called me back. I confirmed his identity, told him who I was. He did a oh crap soft laugh. I told I need him to acknowledge he needs to lose my wife's number and to never try to contact her again. He said he didn't have a problem with that.
> 
> Wife is a stupid girl that made a mistake. She gets one chance to make it right.


Good move!

He is on notice. He would have to be uncommonly 'brazen' to continue. 
...............................................................................................................................................
Brazen, as a 'struck' hard bronze bell at Midnight, a one time occurrence, it's last. The last time for this POSOM.

Let's hope a Fool and it's Mirror Image do not show up again in your life's 'Play".

His path, your's, not cross.
...............................................................................................................................................
Protect your' women from herself, if:

She has not fallen [so far] from Grace; [so far] from reasoned Grasp.

*You can pull her from the Edge, but not from the Flames...*


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## ltsandwich (Sep 12, 2017)

epxss said:


> Y'all are brutal.


Read through the forums more. You'll see why. All the signs are showing you're being played like a fiddle and she's not going to learn anything from it with you giving in.

No way you're shaving/grooming up more than usual for an emotional/flirty fling. Women don't work like that, just as much as men don't. We gussy up to get laid. Women are the same.

I've been there and been emasculated. Don't go that route...it'll take you years to recover from that level of betrayal after being a piece of toilet paper to get blown through. 

Note: This is a new account, but i've been lingering/stalking posts for a good year+. Read Rocket's thread or any of the threads that have over 10 pages. It'll open your eyes to "Perfect" spouses taking advantage of the situations until the men stop being led by the nose. This includes "Flirting with BLAH BLAH" that actually ended up being physical infidelity from the onset or escalated after getting a free pass so quickly.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

epxss said:


> Y'all are brutal.


If we're wrong you get a laugh at the paranoid internet people.

If we're right.....'


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

Football coaches are brutal too. Why? Because they know what it takes to win.

So however you define a win...saving the marriage, moving on, etc.....you need to conduct yourself in such a way and take actions consistent with winning.

This board is full of people who have been there and done that. Ignore this advise at your own peril.

If you want the truth. I mean really want it. Not the rug sweeping you are doing now, then there is a way. But you have to stand your ground. If you back down she will lose any respect she has for you. While she is gone on her trip you schedule a polygraph. You tell her when she returns that in order for you to continue in the marriage you must know the truth. Since she is a confrimed liar it has become necessary for a third party to confirm what she is telling you.

Some questions you need answers to:

Have you sent elicit pics of yourself to anyone?
Were you planning on meeting the OM?
Have you engaged in physical sexual behavior with anyone other than your husband since being married?


Now if she is really telling you the truth, and she really loves you and wants to stay married, she will jump at the chance to put your fears to rest. You will both be free to move on and repair the marriage with no lingering questions.

If she refuses and/or acts offended. You know there is more.
If she blame shifts. You know there is more.

Then you say fine. Lets start the divorce process and discuss co-parenting options. And mean it. This approach is one of strength. Once she believes you will follow thru, get ready for a parking lot confession.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Just start the divorce process and do not, NOT engage her emotionally.

Shake her tree and see what, if anything, falls out.

Then, make your decision with that new information.

It's your life. You don't have the time to skate on hopes and rainbows, thinking they'll lead you to the truth. The truth has to come to you and come from her, by whatever means necessary. Shaking up her world is a start.


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

Roselyn said:


> Text the OM yourself, now that you have caught your wife. Tell him that she is married, have young twins, and that you have read their correspondences. She will go underground if given the chance. Working woman here & married for 37 years (first marriage for the both of us). *If your wife doesn't cancel her business trip, I believe that a meet up is in the works. On a business trip, I'm so busy that I won't have time to socialize in the pool. How do you know that this is a business trip? It could be a meet up trip. If the OM is married, notify his wife of this affair. Sorry you are here.*





TAMAT said:


> Epxss,
> 
> Skip the middleman and go right to the OMs spouse or GF.
> 
> ...





Marc878 said:


> I've seen this before. He won't stop because your wife doesn't want him to. You're deep in denial.
> 
> Better wake up



I agree with all of the above.

You also need to place a VAR in her car or in the house.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

epxss said:


> Y'all are brutal.


The medicine usually is when it first goes down.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

ltsandwich said:


> Read through the forums more. You'll see why. All the signs are showing you're being played like a fiddle and she's not going to learn anything from it with you giving in.
> 
> No way you're shaving/grooming up more than usual for an emotional/flirty fling. Women don't work like that, just as much as men don't. We gussy up to get laid. Women are the same.
> 
> ...


Uh, yes.

It is as if:

The same hand wrote this play.
The same words were used, in different order, different inflection.
The same person wrote the script, from different bodies, different locations, having different wives.
................................................................................
Different wives:

Having the same yearnings.
Having the same lies, and lines.
Having the same lack of decency, loyalty.
Having the same lines, excuses, using the same smoke screens..
Having the same urgent desire for close contact with even closer male parts, brushing up close, lips and mind... melding.

You are not alone.
Wives, good and bad need a man...to do manly things, comforting things.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

When we speak of ''consequences'' it isn't that you should treat your wife like she is a kid who broke her curfew, and you're an angry parent who needs to punish her. Consequences are that IF you wish to save your marriage, but have a BETTER marriage, you need to show her that you're willing to walk away. No begging, no pleading. She needs to see that she could lose the marriage, but this has to come from a genuine place. I don't believe in threatening divorce. I only think that should be brought up if the BS is honestly ready to leave. Because you don't want your wife to work on the marriage because she's afraid of losing a lifestyle, you want her to come back because she is remorseful and wants to be with you.

So, when people talk about consequences, that's what they mean. Some here are into revenge, but revenge isn't a healthy way to deal with these things, imo.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

epxss said:


> I called the OM. He didnt pick up, but called me back. I confirmed his identity, told him who I was. He did a oh crap soft laugh. I told I need him to acknowledge he needs to lose my wife's number and to never try to contact her again. He said he didn't have a problem with that.
> 
> Wife is a stupid girl that made a mistake. She gets one chance to make it right.


Did you just tell him to stay away from your wife or did you try to get him to confirm any physical contact? That could have been a golden opportunity for you to learn more.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Women don't tidy up their grits unless they believe someone is going to see them.

Odds aren't great that she wasn't at least planning on fing him.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It's a shame that when a spouse cheats, loses feelings for their husband or wife, decides to divorce (that's likely if OP rugsweeps and lays down and rolls over on this), the loyal spouse's whole life and future that they've plan is totally screwed up. AND there are usually zero legals consequences when it's the female that's the cheater. I'm sure there are exceptions.

OP, your emotions are all over the place. You want to feel secure. You want everything to just blow over. You want to "win her back" and make love to her and get things all back "right" in your mind. Sadly, that is the exact opposite of the mindset that's needed to have a chance of fixing this. You need to not give a damn if she leaves. At least pretend. Then you may have a chance at reconciliation if she becomes remorseful.

I pray you will find the strength to to just this: file for divorce and stop caring about her. It's your only chance, for either divorce or reconciliation.


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## Canada75 (Jan 15, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> OP, your emotions are all over the place. You want to feel secure. You want everything to just blow over. You want to "win her back" and make love to her and get things all back "right" in your mind. *Sadly, that is the exact opposite of the mindset that's needed to have a chance of fixing this. You need to not give a damn if she leaves. At least pretend. Then you may have a chance at reconciliation if she becomes remorseful.*
> 
> I pray you will find the strength to to just this: file for divorce and stop caring about her. It's your only chance, for either divorce or reconciliation.


Best advice right there!!


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

Dr.fone crahes on my desktop - testing it agaisnt my cell. This is a bummer. Any other way to recover deleted messages?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

epxss said:


> Dr.fone crahes on my desktop - testing it agaisnt my cell. This is a bummer. Any other way to recover deleted messages?


Which OS are you using? What -- if any -- error messages are you receiving? Is there anything in the app or system event logs?

Make and model of your phone? Hers?


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Take it to a friends house or anyone else that you trust that has a PC. Or go buy one at Best Buy to do it (you can always return it tomorrow). This must be done now.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

In all of our 45 years of marriage, my wife never phoned, texted or emailed a man unless it was for home repairs. I have full access to her all of her internet enabled devices as she does to mine. We both have nothing to hide. We do not believe in having friends of the opposite sex. I lost my first fiancé to her male friend and the same with a subsequent girlfriend. I learned my lesson by the time I was 19. Our situation is different though, we love each other. We would not be married this long if we did not get along or where telling friends of the opposite gender, our feelings and problems.

You are a guy. You know the game. You agree with the girl and take her side in everything she says. First comes friendship because you agree with her all the time. Then comes feelings of love/lust followed by sex. I have learned that when it comes to sex, trust no one as that is how I lost my ex fiancé and a girlfriend. BTW, when confronted, a wife will not tell the truth. You will hear the sanitized version, not the one that will make you very angry. Been there and done that. Good luck but you have already told her by not being very firm with her, that there is not much to fear. If she stops it means she only got better at hiding it. She obviously feels that she does not fear or love you. 

I would have twice contacted men to tell them to leave my wife alone or else. Or else happened twice before they believed me.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> Which OS are you using? What -- if any -- error messages are you receiving? Is there anything in the app or system event logs?
> 
> Make and model of your phone? Hers?


I run Windows 10, my phone is a Galaxy S8+, her phone is a 4S mini. The desktop app says it is still analyzing even after the windows app crash pop-up. I have even disconnected the cell phone to make a phone call.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

Vinnydee said:


> In all of our 45 years of marriage, my wife never phoned, texted or emailed a man unless it was for home repairs. I have full access to her all of her internet enabled devices as she does to mine. We both have nothing to hide. We do not believe in having friends of the opposite sex. I lost my first fiancé to her male friend and the same with a subsequent girlfriend. I learned my lesson by the time I was 19. Our situation is different though, we love each other. We would not be married this long if we did not get along or where telling friends of the opposite gender, our feelings and problems.
> 
> You are a guy. You know the game. You agree with the girl and take her side in everything she says. First comes friendship because you agree with her all the time. Then comes feelings of love/lust followed by sex. I have learned that when it comes to sex, trust no one as that is how I lost my ex fiancé and a girlfriend. BTW, when confronted, a wife will not tell the truth. You will hear the sanitized version, not the one that will make you very angry. Been there and done that. Good luck but you have already told her by not being very firm with her, that there is not much to fear. If she stops it means she only got better at hiding it. She obviously feels that she does not fear or love you.
> 
> I would have twice contacted men to tell them to leave my wife alone or else. Or else happened twice before they believed me.


This is my fear. I just called for legal advice, I have an appointment to begin the filing process. The question now is when do I have her served. I want to show her I am serious, but I want to leave the door open to reconcile.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

epxss said:


> This is my fear. I just called for legal advice, I have an appointment to begin the filing process. The question now is when do I have her served. I want to show her I am serious, but I want to leave the door open to reconcile.


Now you are thinking clearly.

You do not know what you want. It's just too soon to process everything.

Either way she needs to know you are fully capable of walking away.

Having her served will keep this from happening again if you do decide to reconcile.

Is the OM married?


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

epxss said:


> This is my fear. I just called for legal advice, I have an appointment to begin the filing process. The question now is when do I have her served. I want to show her I am serious, but I want to leave the door open to reconcile.


I do not know if the OM is married, I do not believe so.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

epxss said:


> I do not know if the OM is married, I do not believe so.


Investigate, most likely he is. Search Facebook, etc, property records. A lot of info is online.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Have her served at work where it will Shane her the most. She darn sure needs to feel some shame. The harder and more sure she is that you plan on divorcing her, the better the chance she'll gain a little respect for you and possibly start thinking a little in your actual value to her. At th moment, she probably values her pet chihuahua more than you, and shows it.


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## thedope (Jan 3, 2017)

I'd bet my entire life savings she had sexual contact with the guy. There are two many red flags, she's is smart enough to delete the text that confirmed that.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I think she's with him right now


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

epxss said:


> I do not know if the OM is married, I do not believe so.


OM does not care about you or your marriage. Do not believe him when he says he will not contact her. That is most likely the first thing he did when you hung up. Getting their stories straight and planning how to be more careful in the future.

They will hide communications better now that they know how you got on the trail. There are so many ways to hide communications now that it is scary. 

Recovering texts is your best bet at this point.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

Here is the thing though. I can verbally abusive in arguments (loud, swearing) I've yelled I want a divorce, I've called her stupid. I've been short tempered on silly things. I've refused her previous sexual advances towards me. Preferring my porn sites to her. Neither of us have time for ourselves let alone each other, literally our commute is [email protected]#!

If I ask myself if I would have done something similar - I think I might have. I am devastated to think she went to another man for attention, or even physical contact. But I do believe this is a true case of, if I treated her better, I have to take responsibility of my part in this, even if it means shes done with me and just scared to separate, so she is going to another man for what she needs.

What she did was wrong, she betrayed my trust and to be honest - I can't believe she hasn't already asked me to leave. 

I've talked to lawyers this week, talked to her mom, my mom, my sisters - and got straight shot truth. Is she telling me everything, absolutely not - am I part to blame for our distance (obviously, I know this for a fact) but every one of them said to me - give it a try, you can always break up later.

I am weak, yadda yadda (I honestly will never forget and never truly forgive) - but I love my family, I need to at least be willing to forgive. (I am going to watch like a hawk and still try to get to the truth).


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## ltsandwich (Sep 12, 2017)

epxss said:


> Here is the thing though. I can verbally abusive in arguments (loud, swearing) I've yelled I want a divorce, I've called her stupid. I've been short tempered on silly things. I've refused her previous sexual advances towards me. Preferring my porn sites to her. Neither of us have time for ourselves let alone each other, literally our commute is [email protected]#!
> 
> If I ask myself if I would have done something similar - I think I might have. I am devastated to think she went to another man for attention, or even physical contact. But I do believe this is a true case of, if I treated her better, I have to take responsibility of my part in this, even if it means shes done with me and just scared to separate, so she is going to another man for what she needs.
> 
> ...


Do what you have to do, man. If you feel that you had a significant role and she REALLY loves you still, then go that route. Do the therapy and change those bad sides of you...but she's lost the trust. Keep tabs on her, even after reconciling.

I would honestly start the divorce process just to drive that fear of what she could lose into her, even if you plan to not follow through. Nip that path in the bud if she thinks is a possibility in the future when things go wrong.

I say you also confront her more on possible meeting. Her shaving up is not a good sign.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If you can't forgive, you have no business reconciling with her.

That will just lead to more of you lashing out and abuse of her.

The BS has to be incredibly strong and emotionally grounded in order to facilitate reconciliation properly. From my purview, you are neither...at this point.

That's not to say that can't change, but you'd better get started quick.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> If you can't forgive, you have no business reconciling with her.
> 
> That will just lead to more of you lashing out and abuse of her.
> 
> ...


that is probably true. i'll do my best, may be a fools errand. my only fear is not being my kids.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

epxss said:


> Dr.fone crahes on my desktop - testing it agaisnt my cell. This is a bummer. Any other way to recover deleted messages?


Try different browsers?


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

epxss said:


> I do not know if the OM is married, I do not believe so.


If you know his name and where he lives, try this site: www.truepeoplesearch.com. Maybe you'll find his wife's name that way.



There can be no true reconciliation if there is no complete transparency. Tell her you want her to take a polygraph and study her reaction. If she says no, go through with the divorce because she doesn't respect you or care enough to save the marriage. Maybe you'll get a parking lot confession, maybe you won't, but do the polygraph regardless.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

epxss said:


> This is my fear. I just called for legal advice, I have an appointment to begin the filing process. The question now is when do I have her served. I want to show her I am serious, *but I want to leave the door open to reconcile.*


*Reconcile with heartless deception? Why?

As soon as she's left the confines of the parking lot, she's as good as screwed the guy, which for them is the proverbial cherry on top of their sundae! No woman tidys up to go the gym ~ they only want it tidied up when a welcomed visitor is expected to that region!

As is, you are now nothing more than a "Plan B" to her!

Business trip my a$$! Truth be told, she's taking a couple of days vacation to get reoriented with a little "strange!" If she goes on that trip ~ then you go directly to your lawyers office, plain and simple!

And file for custody of those kids in addition to divorce and nail her fat a$$ for adultery as well as abandonment!*


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Stop doing all this extra work. Go to your mom's house and use her PC to Dr Fone. Also, you need to find out if her boyfriend is married.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

What I’m about to suggest is simple inexpensive housekeeping. Do this while your kids are still too young to know what you’re doing. 

Go to about any drug store or Amazon and buy a DNA kit. All you do is swab the inside of your cheek and the kids and send it to a lab. No one needs to ever know. The twins are probably yours but this will take away all doubt for the rest of your life. Well worth the small effort and expense.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Graywolf2 said:


> What I’m about to suggest is simple inexpensive housekeeping. Do this while your kids are still too young to know what you’re doing.
> 
> Go to about any drug store or Amazon and buy a DNA kit. All you do is swab the inside of your cheek and the kids and send it to a lab. No one needs to ever know. The twins are probably yours but this will take away all doubt for the rest of your life. Well worth the small effort and expense.


I agree with this 100%. Living with uncertainty is far worse than dealing with the test results, and that is irrespective of the outcome of the test. I got mine through paternity depot and they e-mailed the results in about a week. A geneticist friend looked at what they were doing and said it was a good quality test. They also offer a make your own kit which saves you money and then you don't need to have a kit arrive at your house that your spouse could see.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

Ya'll are right. The uncertainty is killing me. We had a decent few days this week, last weekend - but then she told me she wanted to meet up with her friend Sat night (I confirmed the friend meet up) - but also found out she was hiding why - to plan a girls trip to vegas on her next business trip). I also learned she feels the counselling is a joke and isn't happy about having to go. 

I know we can't stay together, we are just too far apart at this point. All I worry about is losing my kids. I guess I am trying to hold onto a life that doesn't exist anymore.......


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

I'm sorry that you're dealing with this. If you want to save your marriage, especially since you have twin toddlers, I'd suggest getting a copy of Surviving an Affair and following the steps. Your wife has highly inappropriate boundaries around men, and in the workplace, if she thinks it's ok to flirt with men and get into the hot tub with male coworkers on business trips.

For your marriage to survive, she'll need to implement better precautions and boundaries around the opposite sex. Her work travel sounds like an issue in the marriage as well, as is your commute. You two sound very disconnected and that will have to change as well.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

epxss said:


> Ya'll are right. The uncertainty is killing me. We had a decent few days this week, last weekend - but then she told me she wanted to meet up with her friend Sat night (I confirmed the friend meet up) - but also found out she was hiding why - to plan a girls trip to vegas on her next business trip). I also learned she feels the counselling is a joke and isn't happy about having to go.
> 
> I know we can't stay together, we are just too far apart at this point. All I worry about is losing my kids. *I guess I am trying to hold onto a life that doesn't exist anymore*.......


Don't guess. This is absolutely what you're doing and is perfectly normal and perfectly wrong. Give her up to what she wants, which is to go f other dudes on her work trips and be a ****. She wants the single life. Give it to her. Isn't that what someone that loves you should do? Give you what you want the most?
I know it's hard to do. I've been there.

I promise it will get better. And you will have peace about it because you know you did the right thing.

LET HER GO. move FORWARD. Don't let her take you back to this miserable place your mind is every chance she gets.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Don't guess. This is absolutely what you're doing and is perfectly normal and perfectly wrong. Give her up to what she wants, which is to go f other dudes on her work trips and be a ****. She wants the single life. Give it to her. Isn't that what someone that loves you should do? Give you what you want the most?
> I know it's hard to do. I've been there.
> 
> I promise it will get better. And you will have peace about it because you know you did the right thing.
> ...


Yes find your self worth and end this.

You are nothing more than a babysitter for her to go have her fun.

You won't lose your kids.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Jessica38 said:


> I'm sorry that you're dealing with this. If you want to save your marriage, especially since you have twin toddlers, I'd suggest getting a copy of Surviving an Affair and following the steps. Your wife has highly inappropriate boundaries around men, and in the workplace, if she thinks it's ok to flirt with men and get into the hot tub with male coworkers on business trips.
> 
> For your marriage to survive, she'll need to implement better precautions and boundaries around the opposite sex. Her work travel sounds like an issue in the marriage as well, as is your commute. You two sound very disconnected and that will have to change as well.


Don't waste your time with this book.

His infidelity advice is just plain bad.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I tend to agree with your assessment. R can only work when both parties WANT it to work. See a lawyer and figure out what the D will look like for you, then go from there.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I am not opposed to reconciliation and forgiveness. I do however believe that true forgiveness can only come if you are confidant that you have the whole story. YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE FORGIVING. You can forgive her for flirty texts and deception. Can you forgive her if you find out 3 months from now that she was meeting him for sex on occasion or that that was her intention when she tidied up down there?


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## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

It seems like intent always ends with a completed trajectory unless something drastic happens.

When a woman decides she wants new sex, it seems like an unstoppable train.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Send her the D papers when she gets back at her work.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

We had our first couples counseling yesterday, seemed ok. Some crying on her part, a lot of issues on both sides aired out. Had some good sex this morning.. day by day. she was very against going to counseling and was the first to agree to come back when we were asked, so there is that.. 

day by day


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

epxss said:


> Ya'll are right. The uncertainty is killing me. We had a decent few days this week, last weekend - but then she told me she wanted to meet up with her friend Sat night (I confirmed the friend meet up) - but also found out she was hiding why - to plan a girls trip to vegas on her next business trip). I also learned she feels the counselling is a joke and isn't happy about having to go.
> 
> I know we can't stay together, we are just too far apart at this point. All I worry about is losing my kids. I guess I am trying to hold onto a life that doesn't exist anymore.......


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

epxss said:


> We had our first couples counseling yesterday, seemed ok. Some crying on her part, a lot of issues on both sides aired out. Had some good sex this morning.. day by day. she was very against going to counseling and was the first to agree to come back when we were asked, so there is that..
> 
> day by day


Don't let the good sex distract you. Or the crying. She has a history of deception.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

Malaise said:


> Don't let the good sex distract you. Or the crying. She has a history of deception.


I know, its on my mind a lot.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *Reconcile with heartless deception? Why?
> 
> As soon as she's left the confines of the parking lot, she's as good as screwed the guy, which for them is the proverbial cherry on top of their sundae! No woman tidys up to go the gym ~ they only want it tidied up when a welcomed visitor is expected to that region!
> 
> ...


I agree Arb. This guy is more about rugsweeping and screwing himself than he is about taking care of himself. Very sad.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

yeah this guy is screwed. He is more interested in 'saving it' than he is in protecting himself and now he is ack in bed with her. 

We can't protect him from himself. Only he can and he won't


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

OP you never recovered the deleted messages right? So all you know is what she admitted to... Innocent texts while preening her vagaga getting ready for a work trip. You actually believe that? Or you are sticking your head in the sand hoping it goes away...

Then the girls trip to Vegas behind a work trip. That s so her friends cover her when she meets lover boy. Or has a ONS. 

Counseling is a joke and not being happy about having to go when you are not around to witness but cooperating eagerly when you are there

This is not going away. Good money says she is already gone and just stringing you along while she gets her ducks all in a row then dumps you. She will cheat again ether with same partner or others. You have given her a GREEN light. All she has to do is cry a little and sleep with you. Sorry, not enough. Next time she will be far more discreet. You will wish then when you finally catch her or she leaves you that you listened carefully and exercised the advice offered here. The advice is designed to save you unbelievable heartache in the future. 

Good luck with sticking your head in the sand. You are going to need it.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> OP you never recovered the deleted messages right? So all you know is what she admitted to... Innocent texts while preening her vagaga getting ready for a work trip. You actually believe that? Or you are sticking your head in the sand hoping it goes away...
> 
> Then the girls trip to Vegas behind a work trip. That s so her friends cover her when she meets lover boy. Or has a ONS.
> 
> ...


I am very much aware of whats going on and where I stand. Please do not bash me here.

The trip to Vegas was cancelled by her work, I have been talking to lawyers about what a divorce would look like - also talking to our marriage counselor about issues that have come up. I have a clearly established history of deception by her to me, her friends and the guy(s) she talks to. She has a very clear pattern on her methods with how she talks to them. I have not recovered the texts, but I know exactly how many were deleted and when they were sent. I have to root her phone for Dr.Fone to work - which I am hesitant to do. 

Again, please do not bash me. There is no need, things suck as it is - I don't need the place I am going to write about this to, trying to make me feel worse.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

If it's not a work phone you root that ****


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Unfortunately you need to extract those texts. If you want even a small chance at reconciliation you need to see them


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Fair enough, I won't bash you. 

But root the phone. If it's a work phone let it sleep with the fish afterwards, or a accidental factory reset. Discreetly of course. If not root anyway.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Dr.Fone doesn't work on some of the most recent phones such as Samsung, especially those that are locked by carriers.

Could also try looking at the phone from a computer and look for recent directories or changes. Like some privacy software folder - yet you don't see the app icon. (Ie: app removed - but the data is still there)

Uh yeah... all "locker" software is hackable.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

BTW: if the OP's wife is pro-marriage counseling (MC).... then take it as a possible postive reaction on her part. Doesn't mean they are out of the woods.

Seems like you both have issues. But she is the one lying and cheating (or about to cheat). Have any of you said "HEY! We need to talk?"
You said there is a lack of sex and you reject her? Why? That is not healthy? You're 42 and she is likely in her mid-late 30s? Both of you should have good sex drives.

The MC can help you in three areas. The infidelity, sex issues and the relationship of the both of you. You have admitted faults on you. She needs to talk about her failings in every way. But one thing is for certain - 5hrs of commuting to work is killing your marriage. I mean, its a good paying job and you live so-far away? If your marriage is damaged by over-working, then what is the point? I know *WE* don't have as much time together as we like in my own relationship because of work. But we live 2~3 minutes for work, sometimes I travel up to 30min to see clients.

Let's do math:
9 hours at work (with lunch break) + 5hrs commute + 1 hour to wake up, wash, breakfeast, etc + 8hrs sleep = 23 hours. That gives you 1hr to eat dinner, hug your kids and argue with your wife. That is NOT healthy for you or your kids.

Sit down and look at life changes for yourself - either way, its gonna happen. I had to make changes to myself (work in progress) because it was effecting my relationship or future relationships. 

1 - Are you happy with your carreer?
2 - Can you get a job closer to home? A pay-cut could out-weigh the time, travel costs, etc.
3 - Can you move your family closer to work?
4 - (don't do anything that kills your income)
5 - when have you had a date night with your wife last? Weeks, months? YOU need at least two childrenless date-nights a month.
6 - When was the last time you had sex with her? (the long strectch - not the recent just after-MC sex) You should be having sex 2~3 times a week. I'm 48 (she's 33) - We try for 2-3 times a week. Usually 1~3 times due to work, ugh. Sometimes I am too tired, but cuddling at least.

7 - She has to come clean. Read books, and both of you need to work on yourselves and as a couple. Any secrets from here are not going to help.

I'm approching 2yr D-Day. We do MC once a month as our MC doesn't think we need to see him every week or every other week anymore.
Things are NOT the same as before the affair. But they are better in many ways. Trust is still building.

Sorry, but things are just getting started on your end. I wish you luck.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Just curious. Forgive me if you've already covered this, but why no sex? She not interested? You not interested? Low libidos? Seems like that would be an area worth looking into.


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## epxss (Sep 12, 2017)

thummper said:


> Just curious. Forgive me if you've already covered this, but why no sex? She not interested? You not interested? Low libidos? Seems like that would be an area worth looking into.





thummper said:


> Just curious. Forgive me if you've already covered this, but why no sex? She not interested? You not interested? Low libidos? Seems like that would be an area worth looking into.


I lost a bit of interest. I have been vocally unhappy, but I communicated. She does not reciprocate communication on any level, which made this marriage even worse. We are in therapy now, the therapist circled in on her pretty quick and started scratching at her inability to communicate with me (ie. wasn't happy, didn't say anything etc...) I think it is pretty clear she misses her singles life and really wasn't meant to start a family. One of her single mother friends is taking the role of devil on her shoulder. I saw a message where she said therapy was going good, her friend was quick to bash me and voice a comment that is pushing her to divorce. Overall, I think she is pretty broken. Clearly I chose wrong and now I have to deal with that. The divorce is not so simple since we have kids, I want to be in the best position (custody of kids) possible when/if we go that route, so I have been working to that end. Things are day to day, but I am working the chess board to be in my favor. Switch daycare, taking over as many roles as I can, etc so when it goes to mediation, I can truthfully claim ownership of big role tasks.

Oh get this, one of the things I said she does is lie like its normal, she has already lied to the therapist like it was nothing. We both got sick from our twins and when we went to therapy, she almost immediately said she had a cough and her voice was going out from speaking at work functions, when I am standing right there and know its an out right lie. Truly amazing. I document everything now...


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

This is NOT to bash you, but to get you going in the right direction. 

1. Stop trying to be a private investigator. You are NOT good at it and in the end, it will seem like you are controlling, manipulative and invasive IF you find anything and try to use it against her. The result is that all of this "history of deception" that you have uncovered is cancelled out.

2. I don't think that a "history of deception" is really admissible in court. Ask you lawyer. Chances are that it just gives you some personal satisfaction and perhaps stuff to use should you involve other people in whatever "smear" campaign and retaliation that you guys happen to do, IF you happen to.

3. If you are going the D route, then get your mind right. That means HIRE a lawyer and don't just ask a bunch of questions and then translate the answers to fit your perception of what the lawyer actually said. More folks say "the lawyer said I was going to lose everything" when THAT IS NOT possible nor what the lawyer said. In a fight, both sides get hit.

4. Do what the lawyer says and let them do their job. Get you a fighter and tough negotiator. Follow their advice. Period. Go 100% on this. Don't half step it.

5. If you are just kicking the tires on maybe possibly divorce, then you are wasting time. Get a plan and then prepare like you are going to do it. Maybe you call it off, but you better have worked to win even if you never go to battle. A first strike by a well prepared lawyer REALLY sets the tone and can make all the difference.

5. Work things out. Go 100% on this. Don't work things out. Go 100% on this. Flip flop. Don't do it at all.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

epxss said:


> I lost a bit of interest. I have been vocally unhappy, but I communicated. She does not reciprocate communication on any level, which made this marriage even worse. We are in therapy now, the therapist circled in on her pretty quick and started scratching at her inability to communicate with me (ie. wasn't happy, didn't say anything etc...) I think it is pretty clear she misses her singles life and really wasn't meant to start a family. One of her single mother friends is taking the role of devil on her shoulder. I saw a message where she said therapy was going good, her friend was quick to bash me and voice a comment that is pushing her to divorce. Overall, I think she is pretty broken. Clearly I chose wrong and now I have to deal with that. The divorce is not so simple since we have kids, I want to be in the best position (custody of kids) possible when/if we go that route, so I have been working to that end. Things are day to day, but I am working the chess board to be in my favor. Switch daycare, taking over as many roles as I can, etc so when it goes to mediation, I can truthfully claim ownership of big role tasks.
> 
> Oh get this, one of the things I said she does is lie like its normal, she has already lied to the therapist like it was nothing. We both got sick from our twins and when we went to therapy, she almost immediately said she had a cough and her voice was going out from speaking at work functions, when I am standing right there and know its an out right lie. Truly amazing. I document everything now...


Your' biggest mistake was to stop having sex from your youngish wife.

What? You think she does not want it, need it?

Men or women should NEVER do this and not expect cheating.

It is morally indefensible for a person to cheat. *A sexless marriage does not excuse the cheater. No way.
*
But it does make it happen, pushes the urge, irregardless.


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