# Men who don?t work



## southbound

I haven?t been close to a couple like this, but I?ve known of some couples in my life where the man doesn?t work. My daughter is in college, and a couple of her friends have dad?s who don?t work. 

The men usually have some type of underwater basket weaving activity that they pass off as an income generator, but it doesn?t amount to much. 

The women in these couples are attractive and have a job. 

With a lot of women being attracted to men who are passionate about their jobs, what is attractive about being with a guy who doesn?t work? Gosh, I know that is a general question and could vary from couple to couple, but has anyone known a couple like this and wondered what fueled the attraction?


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## David Darling

I'll let you know soon! I'm about to quit my highly paid day-job to start a new venture.

My wife is supportive, feeling I've "done my share" over the past 25 years. 

But we're both nervous (terrified in fact) about the big income drop.

Perhaps that's the situation with the couples you know.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Yeah I've seen this many times. Often results in divorce. The only way it can work is when the wife doesn't ever want kids. But when kids arrive and the wife's motherly instincts kick in, they often realize money and career aren't the keys to happiness in their life any longer. They want to stay home and spend more time with their kids, like pretty much every woman ever. They realize 40k a year plus loads of time with their kids raising them is infinitely better than 200k a year and seeing them here and there for a few minutes.

If their husband is a complete bum and has no ambition to provide for their family, the wife in that situation often realises they married a bum ass loser. The end of their marriage isn't far away once they reach this realization. 

The interesting thing is no woman will tell you men are better nurturers than woman. Woman are just naturally better at it then men and always will be. Every woman will agree with you. Every man will too!

But when you say men are better providers, suddenly their panties get all bunched up and they can't face facts that men are better at some things and always will be. You can't be a good nurterer and good provider simultaneously in this day and age. Or any day and age for that matter. Single parents kids generally have a lot of issues because the single parent had to do their best to provide for their kids which leaves little time for nurturing. Thus their kids have a lot of personal issues. 

Men aren't better providers because women cant do the same things as a man before you ladies get all pissed off. You can do the work just as well. The reason is because once kids come into the picture, your priorities change where work isnt as important anymore and a mans priorities change where its more important than ever. That is the real difference in all of this. A woman wants to work less to nurture more, and a man wants to work more to provide more. 

This is thousands of years of DNA and evolution and people like to fight against it. It is beyond me. Do you, but don't be surprised when instincts kick in and you realize you're not happy with a bum ass loser husband sitting around at home all day.


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## EleGirl

I've known a few couples like this. The ones that work, the guy is not just playing at his basket weaving thing. He contributes by taking care of the things that are usually expected of a SAHM/W. 

I was married to a guy who was laid off and never worked again. It did not work because he did nothing used for the family/home/etc. ... become a dead weight as I supported him, his kids and I did everything else. I finally divorced him.


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## uhtred

I know 3 couples where the man doesn't work.

1). Husband stays home with the kids, wife works a good-paying high tech job. They both seem happy with the arrangement. He used to have a high tech job but quit it. Both are physically attractive. 

2). Husband used to work and a job involving physical work - basically a mechanic working on large industrial equipment. He hurt is back many years ago and never went back to work. She works at a mid level professional job. I get the impression that she is not happy that he hasn't found a way to work again. She was stunning when she was younger, still attractive. He was ordinary. 

3). Husband used to work a high tech job, and then quit after making about 20 years pay in stock options. Wife still works a fairly high paying accountant job. He became completely lazy, doesn't work doesn't take care of the house, parties all the time. She lost all respect for him and will divorce soon I think. Both are average looking.


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## TheDudeLebowski

https://youtu.be/kj7VgBnQNUc

This is what I'm talking about in that video. Women change once kids come in the picture. As well they should! You ladies are too smart to work your butts off your whole life like a man will. Coincidently you outlive us as a result.


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## southbound

The ones I am aware of is basically a result of laziness; there is no big plan of any kind like being a super SAHD.


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## sokillme

southbound said:


> I haven?t been close to a couple like this, but I?ve known of some couples in my life where the man doesn?t work. My daughter is in college, and a couple of her friends have dad?s who don?t work.
> 
> The men usually have some type of underwater basket weaving activity that they pass off as an income generator, but it doesn?t amount to much.
> 
> The women in these couples are attractive and have a job.
> 
> With a lot of women being attracted to men who are passionate about their jobs, what is attractive about being with a guy who doesn?t work? Gosh, I know that is a general question and could vary from couple to couple, but has anyone known a couple like this and wondered what fueled the attraction?


He is taking a big risk in my mind. Not something I could do. For the wife I could see it if he was still like a leader or respected person in a field that doesn't pay as much as hers does, but if he is kind of useless we all know how many wives end up losing respect for men like this.


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## sokillme

David Darling said:


> I'll let you know soon! I'm about to quit my highly paid day-job to start a new venture.
> 
> My wife is supportive, feeling I've "done my share" over the past 25 years.
> 
> But we're both nervous (terrified in fact) about the big income drop.
> 
> Perhaps that's the situation with the couples you know.


My philosophy is never let your wife know you are terrified, even if you are.


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## chillymorn69

The ones I know the wife settled because the biological clock was ticking. They were average at best looking and had good degrees. With low self esteem. And there husbands were always just along for the ride. And once he struck gold he became even lazier and less motivated.

There all still married. Go figure life is crazy.


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## David Darling

sokillme said:


> My philosophy is never let your wife know you are terrified, even if you are.


Good philosophy probably. I find it's sometimes difficult to find the balance between sharing and being a team, versus being the strong provider.


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## EleGirl

TheDudeLebowski said:


> https://youtu.be/kj7VgBnQNUc
> 
> This is what I'm talking about in that video. Women change once kids come in the picture. As well they should! You ladies are too smart to work your butts off your whole life like a man will. Coincidently you outlive us as a result.


LOL... this is not 1950. 

Every woman I know has worked full time their enter adult life. I've worked full my entire adult life. And just about all of them earn as much or more than their husbands.


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## TheDudeLebowski

EleGirl said:


> LOL... this is not 1950.
> 
> Every woman I know has worked full time their enter adult life. I've worked full my entire adult life. And just about all of them earn as much or more than their husbands.


Indeed, in 1950 a household could live much easier on one income. I wasn't saying women shouldn't work btw, I was saying women tend to have different priorities later in life and don't want to work 60+ hours a week. Every woman in my family works too, my wife included. She also earns just as much as me. I think you misunderstood my posts or I wasn't clear in what I was saying. 

For a woman to be the only source of income is incredibly difficult for most because they simply don't want to put in the same hours once they have kids. There aren't a lot of super high paying jobs that allow for you to have a lot of free time to raise a family. So once you have kids, you instincts are to spend more time as a mother than a provider. If dead beat dad just sits around all day, it makes this incredibly tough for a woman to then be a mother. 

For the record, I personally wouldn't want to be married to a woman who is fine with being a sahm unless it made sense financially. Like her income is equivalent to daycare costs. At that point you might as well stay home. But we don't have daycare costs because of relatives and our jobs both allow for it. So yeah, my wife better work! Lol. She wants to anyway, she didn't get her masters degree for nothing!


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## Lila

I am a part of a core group of 6 friends who share common traits. We're all in our first marriage. All are long term marriages (>15 years). All of us are white collar, high earning working moms. Two have two kids, the rest of us have one. 

Two are big time bread winners married to essentially SAHDs (they keep part time <15 hour per week jobs for appearances). Their husbands are night and day from each other but they do share one thing in common.... they do a great job of meeting their wives needs, whatever those happen to be. They seem to be happy. 

I've given up trying to figure out what makes other people's relationships tick. If it works, more power to them. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Laurentium

TheDudeLebowski said:


> before you ladies get all pissed off. You can do the work just as well. The reason is because once kids come into the picture, your priorities change where work isnt as important anymore and a mans priorities change where its more important than ever. That is the real difference in all of this. A woman wants to work less to nurture more, and a man wants to work more to provide more.
> 
> This is thousands of years of DNA and evolution and people like to fight against it. It is beyond me.


Annnnnd.... you're fired from Google.


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## Personal

chillymorn69 said:


> The ones I know the wife settled because the biological clock was ticking. They were average at best looking and had good degrees. With low self esteem. And there husbands were always just along for the ride. And once he struck gold he became even lazier and less motivated.
> 
> There all still married. Go figure life is crazy.


My wife was very attractive and still is and I was rather handsome as well way back when.

Funnily enough neither my wife or I wanted kids as such, yet we were are very fertile so some got past birth control.

We're together because we like having sex together and have always been able to talk to each other for hours on end, while not being bored by the other through decades of being together.


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## Personal

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Yeah I've seen this many times. Often results in divorce. The only way it can work is when the wife doesn't ever want kids. But when kids arrive and the wife's motherly instincts kick in, they often realize money and career aren't the keys to happiness in their life any longer. They want to stay home and spend more time with their kids, like pretty much every woman ever. They realize 40k a year plus loads of time with their kids raising them is infinitely better than 200k a year and seeing them here and there for a few minutes.


When my wife and I had kids together and after our last child and after her last year off from maternity leave, my wife went back to work full time and I took what turned out to be circa 3½ years off, to stay at home with the kids since we would be financially worse off if I remained the sole breadwinner. 

Through that time my wife and I had no notable problems that I can recall and our sex life remained great, frequent and varied as always. That said I was bored out of my mind dealing with the kids and found I couldn't relate to the other male SAHP I met. Although I did get some explicit offers of sex along the way which I turned down, from some of the mothers I met on playdates with the kids etc.

Being bored once our youngest was starting school I got back into work, with a creative business that usually offers me steady work, sometimes lots of work and sometimes it's quieter. Plus through the years I have sometimes done work for other organisations as well along the way.

Yet my wife remains the primary breadwinner with a steady and very generous six figure income in government management roles, where she only works 38 hours a week, and has always been no more than 10-15 minutes drive or walk from work, so we spend plenty of time together.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> The interesting thing is no woman will tell you men are better nurturers than woman. Woman are just naturally better at it then men and always will be. Every woman will agree with you. Every man will too!


Then you have lived a sheltered life and never been with an INTJ woman. My wife has an INTJ personality type which occurs in about 4 women out of 500. Wonderful and awesome though she is, I don't think I nor anyone else who knows her would ever describe her as very nurturing.

To claim all men and all women is simply hyperbolic nonsense, some are some aren't it's that simple.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> But when you say men are better providers, suddenly their panties get all bunched up and they can't face facts that men are better at some things and always will be. You can't be a good nurterer and good provider simultaneously in this day and age. Or any day and age for that matter. Single parents kids generally have a lot of issues because the single parent had to do their best to provide for their kids which leaves little time for nurturing. Thus their kids have a lot of personal issues.
> 
> Men aren't better providers because women cant do the same things as a man before you ladies get all pissed off. You can do the work just as well. The reason is because once kids come into the picture, your priorities change where work isnt as important anymore and a mans priorities change where its more important than ever. That is the real difference in all of this. A woman wants to work less to nurture more, and a man wants to work more to provide more.


My wife would hate to be stuck at home with the kids all of the time, just as much as I would. She likes the challenge of taking on new leadership roles, changing things for the better then moving onto new projects.

Neither of us concentrate on our children more than our own relationship together and work full time hours. This idea of being so nurturing seems alien to my wife and I, we care about our kids yet since my wife is an INTJ while I am an ENTJ we are both ordered as parents and have high standards for our children and are very efficient in how we parent them.

Yet thus far our teenage children seem quite happy, have good friends, don't get into trouble at all while out or at school and are physically (sports), academically and artistically accomplished for their age with our youngest being notably gifted.

Yet being soppy and overtly nurturing sounds like hell to my wife and I.


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## Personal

Lila said:


> I am a part of a core group of 6 friends who share common traits. We're all in our first marriage. All are long term marriages (>15 years). All of us are white collar, high earning working moms. Two have two kids, the rest of us have one.
> 
> Two are big time bread winners married to essentially SAHDs (they keep part time <15 hour per week jobs for appearances). Their husbands are night and day from each other but they do share one thing in common.... they do a great job of meeting their wives needs, whatever those happen to be. They seem to be happy.


My wife would fit that description very well (including our marriage being her first marriage), while she also has accomplished friends, some of whom have been in long term marriages with husbands who stay at home. We also did that for a while as well and we still like each other a lot.


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## Edo Edo

I know 2 couples like this. Neither are especially good looking, but not bad. Just average in appearance.


1. She is a doctor, he was a stay at home dad and they had 1 kid. Shortly before the baby was born, they bought a house in the country and he immediately began remodeling and added on to the house during the day while the wife was at work. Most construction work was done while the kid was at school and he acted as the parent when school was over for the day. Only (?!?!) took 16 years for the remodeling to be done. Now the child is in college and the dad still does not have a job outside the home. He's not motivated to, but I don't think she cares as long as he takes cares of meals, clearing, yard work, etc...

2. She's a professional during the day and is with the kids at night. He is with the kids during the day and plays music at bars /other venues at night for extra pocket money. They rarely see each other except for during the day on weekends. It's working for them now, but I have a strong suspicion things will get more tense as their kids get older and need less care because I know we won't want to get a real job...


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## JayDee7

I?ve seen this as well. My wife has a coworker whose boyfriend of like 20 years doesn?t work. They?re over 40, she?s educated and has a great career, but doesn?t earn that much for her family of 5. He loves music, plays guitar once in a while for a local band that plays in beer joints. He has cheated on her countless times in their marriage, and his latest affair was just found out recently. This woman has three children with him, plus him and her to support. She will not leave him. She?s working on the relationship. They never even got married after 20 years and three kids together. He sucks as a man. He?s really fat and wears really expensive but tacky clothing, she?s attractive and dresses well. 
I think some women don?t want a husband, a man who will take the lead and be good to her and the kids and protect and provide for them. I think some women want to nurture a man like an overgrown baby. She gets to tell him what to do, make all the decisions for him, take care of him, clean up after him, dress him, take him places and pay for it, buy him a car, buy him clothes that look silly, as if he was a teenager. He cheats on her and he gets in trouble for it and he does it again and the cycle continues like an unruly child and mother. I think some women like the mother role so much they want to mother a man. It?s sick and weird, but it?s the only conclusion I have come up with.


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## EleGirl

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Indeed, in 1950 a household could live much easier on one income. I wasn't saying women shouldn't work btw, I was saying women tend to have different priorities later in life and don't want to work 60+ hours a week. Every woman in my family works too, my wife included. She also earns just as much as me. I think you misunderstood my posts or I wasn't clear in what I was saying.
> 
> For a woman to be the only source of income is incredibly difficult for most because they simply don't want to put in the same hours once they have kids. There aren't a lot of super high paying jobs that allow for you to have a lot of free time to raise a family. So once you have kids, you instincts are to spend more time as a mother than a provider. If dead beat dad just sits around all day, it makes this incredibly tough for a woman to then be a mother.
> 
> For the record, I personally wouldn't want to be married to a woman who is fine with being a sahm unless it made sense financially. Like her income is equivalent to daycare costs. At that point you might as well stay home. But we don't have daycare costs because of relatives and our jobs both allow for it. So yeah, my wife better work! Lol. She wants to anyway, she didn't get her masters degree for nothing!


The link you posted was talking about women who earn 250K/500K and more a year in jobs that require basically 100% commitment to the job and leave no room for a person to have a private life. That is a very small percentage of all women... less than 1%. Shoot, less than 1% of men are in that income bracket.

Most women do not have the choice to cut their hours at work because their income is required to support their family. But most women are not in the same group as the women that are discussed in that video.

Every woman I know works a full time job. Many of them, like me, work 60+ hours a week because that's what's required to do their job. And their job is needed to support the family.

On average men work 42 minutes a week more than women do. That 42 minute difference does not match what you are claiming.


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## FeministInPink

No one really knows what goes on inside a relationship, or what makes that relationship work, except the two people in the relationship.

This also applies to what each partner contributes to the relationship, or how much $$$ each person is bringing in.

My boyfriend, if folks haven't guessed by his forum nickname "Real Estate," works in real estate. If you saw him on a day to day basis, you would think that he doesn't work... because he doesn't actually work that much! He put in loads of time and a lot of effort years before we met, built up a very large client base of rental property owners, and he manages their properties for them. He's created an income stream that is mostly passive on his part, and he only has to work a few days a month when the checks come in, handles repairs and maintenance issues, and over the summer months, he has to do lease renewals and find new tenants for properties that have been vacated. He also manages the occasional sale, as well. All told, if you combined all the work (time) he puts in, and converted it to 40-hr work weeks, I would say that he really works 6-8 weeks a year, and he makes twice as much money as I do. He also has invested in several of his own rental properties, and plans on purchasing several more over the next few years. Once those are paid off (and they are being paid for by the rent he is charging, so aside from the down payments, he's not actually putting in his own money to pay the mortgages), that will be yet another passive income stream.

I have an uncle who worked hard and lived very frugally in his youth. He took summers off and rode his motorcycle around the country, and he was able to do this because he lived to frugally. What I learned in recent years was that he was also heavily investing most of what he earned. He's in his mid-50s now. I don't think he works now, because he has a passive income stream with his investments, which will support his for the rest of his life. He occasionally will pick up a temp job around the holidays (he lives near an Amazon distribution center), just because, for something to do, but that's about it.

Just because someone isn't working doesn't mean they don't have an income. I think a lot of people, if they could develop a passive income stream, would choose not to work. I would!

If I was a high-earner, LOVED my job, and could afford to comfortably support myself and a partner, and by guy wanted to be a SAH hubby, and he would pull his weight and would take care of all the house stuff, why not? I hate cleaning, yardwork, chores, etc... if my partner was working instead of doing this stuff, I'd be hiring this stuff out anyway. The only reason I/we do it myself/ourselves is because I'm not a high earner and never will be, and hiring it out is a waste of money. I wouldn't think any less of my guy if he was a SAH hubby. A man isn't defined by his job.

I will say this, however: my XH encouraged my writing, because he wanted me to write bestsellers and be his "little cash cow," because then he wouldn't have to work. This infuriated me, despite what I have written above, and it infuriated me because my XH never even came close to pulling his weight at home, and I was stuck doing nearly all the housekeeping and chores, despite the fact that I worked more hours than my XH and was going to grad school on top of work. If I became his "little cash cow," I would still be working, plus doing all the housekeeping work, and he would be unemployed, playing video games all day.

My point is that whether or not this can work relies very heavily on the attitude of the husband in the relationship.


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## 269370

southbound said:


> I haven?t been close to a couple like this, but I?ve known of some couples in my life where the man doesn?t work. My daughter is in college, and a couple of her friends have dad?s who don?t work.
> 
> The men usually have some type of underwater basket weaving activity that they pass off as an income generator, but it doesn?t amount to much.
> 
> The women in these couples are attractive and have a job.
> 
> With a lot of women being attracted to men who are passionate about their jobs, what is attractive about being with a guy who doesn?t work? Gosh, I know that is a general question and could vary from couple to couple, but has anyone known a couple like this and wondered what fueled the attraction?


Tricky. I could stop work tomorrow and we would be fine (enough income from investments). One of the reasons I am not stopping work is precisely because I am worried my wife and my family will see me differently. Plus I have these old-fashioned ideas that the man is only as interesting as his work...
I am interested in answers myself.


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## 269370

Personal said:


> Through that time my wife and I had no notable problems that I can recall and our sex life remained great, frequent and varied as always. That said I was bored out of my mind dealing with the kids and found I couldn't relate to the other male SAHP I met. Although I did get some explicit offers of sex along the way which I turned down, from some of the mothers I met on playdates with the kids etc.


Seriously, on playdates?? That's disgusting. Were the mothers married or single?

Did you not consider working in addition to your wife (or taking on a part time job) and having a part-time nanny? I would have thought if neither of you felt like being the 'nurturing' type, that might have been more suitable?


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## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> Just because someone isn't working doesn't mean they don't have an income. I think a lot of people, if they could develop a passive income stream, would choose not to work. I would!
> 
> If I was a high-earner, LOVED my job, and could afford to comfortably support myself and a partner, and by guy wanted to be a SAH hubby, and he would pull his weight and would take care of all the house stuff, why not? I hate cleaning, yardwork, chores, etc... if my partner was working instead of doing this stuff, I'd be hiring this stuff out anyway. The only reason I/we do it myself/ourselves is because I'm not a high earner and never will be, and hiring it out is a waste of money. I wouldn't think any less of my guy if he was a SAH hubby. *A man isn't defined by his job.*
> 
> I will say this, however: my XH encouraged my writing, because he wanted me to write bestsellers and be his "little cash cow," because then he wouldn't have to work. This infuriated me, despite what I have written above, *and it infuriated me because my XH never even came close to pulling his weight at home, and I was stuck doing nearly all the housekeeping and chores, despite the fact that I worked more hours than my XH and was going to grad school on top of work. If I became his "little cash cow," I would still be working, plus doing all the housekeeping work, and he would be unemployed, playing video games all day.*
> 
> My point is that whether or not this can work relies very heavily on the attitude of the husband in the relationship.


I can't quite work out what the attitude of the husband got to do with it? 
The two things in bold seem to be in slight contradiction...You have had two contrasting men: one was not earning enough (and it infuriated you) and the current one is earning more than enough and you seem happy. How could the attitude helped your XH here?
Just trying to understand better as this topic is of interest and I am keen to understand the attitudes of women towards men who either don't want to or can't work.
I am not so sure that when women say that work doesn't define men, they actually mean it, even with passive income streams.

I am in a situation where if we only lived off my passive income stream from investments, my wife would probably still get infuriated with me quite frequently because I would be pursuing my hobbies and she would feel like she has to do most of the things with the children herself. I have offered to get tutors, nannies, staff, whatever, to make her life easier, whenever she is taking her frustration out - she wants to do it all herself and when i try to help out too much myself, it gets kind of competitive. So far she only agreed to a cleaner (weekly) and gardeners etc. Anything to do with kids, she wants to do herself (and can't always manage - though I never say this to her. It's tough - they are all very small).
A lot of the time, I am basically using my work as a 'shelter', so that she knows I am busy/stressed with my work and don't bother her too much...
My work of course does provide additional income but since money stopped being such a necessity a while ago, it doesn't really have the same meaning. 
I know it sounds a nice problem to have but it's still a problem. I worry if I stopped working things will be worse between us.
That's why I am interested to understand what women _really_ think about if a man doesn't work anymore.

Edit: I know two families where both men made enough and stopped working in their early forties/late thirties. Both are depressed/unhappy (now in their early fifties) and neither marriages are particularly happy ones. So...that's also what's stopping me.


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## EleGirl

inmyprime said:


> I can't quite work out what the attitude of the husband got to do with it? .


In a heterosexual marriage there are two people. The attitude of both spouse matter. Why would you think that that attitude of the man/husband does not matter?

A statistic that shows that a man's/husband's attitude does matter is that a man who is married to a woman who earns more, is 70% more likely to cheat. That's on him. His attitude matters.

In my marriage to my son's father, his attitude was a HUGE problem. I supported him while he went through medical school and residency. He had a chip on his shoulder about it the entire time. I was ok with it. He was doing something worthwhile. Shoot I just put all my income into a joint account, he paid the bills. He resented every penny that I spent on groceries, on our son, and God forbid if I spent any money on clothing for myself. He is the one with the mean/nasty attitude. So yea, his attitude mattered a lot.

After divorcing him I married a guy who earned more than I did. I the 2nd year of our marriage he was laid off is a world-wide layoff at his employer. He never worked again. He just spent every waking hour surfing the internet and playing computer games. He ignored his own kids who I ended up raising, he refused to do anything in the house, yard, etc. So yea, his entitled attitude mattered. I told him that if he would just take care of things in house, yard, and with the kids so it released me I'd be just fine with him not working. My problem was with him doing NOTHING by playing games. Again, his attitude mattered... A LOT.



inmyprime said:


> Just trying to understand better as this topic is of interest and I am keen to understand the attitudes of women towards men who either don't want to or can't work..
> 
> I am not so sure that when women say that work doesn't define men, they actually mean it, even with passive income streams.


There is no one "attitudes of women towards men who either don't want to or can't work". What matters is your attitude and your wife's attitude and can the two of you reaching an agreement.

Have you ever talked to your wife about this topic? How would SHE feel?


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## 269370

EleGirl said:


> In a heterosexual marriage there are two people. The attitude of both spouse matter. Why would you think that that attitude of the man/husband does not matter?


I did not say that. Perhaps I wasn't clear - I was talking about Feministinpink's ex husband's attitude and how it could have helped him earning more money if he couldn't get a better job. Maybe I am not quite understanding what is meant by 'attitude' here.
Somebody who _cannot_ get a job: the attitude is not going to make much of a difference. Somebody who _does not want_ to get a job (but is expected to have a job), well, here clearly the attitude makes a difference. Sometimes it's confusing which of the two it is...



EleGirl said:


> A statistic that shows that a man's/husband's attitude does matter is that a man who is married to a woman who earns more than his wife is 70% more likely to cheat. That's on him. His attitude matters.


A man who earns more than his wife is more likely to cheat? Or did you mean the other way around? Men with breadwinning wives more likely to cheat, study says - CNN

I have no argument with this - of course it's on him.




EleGirl said:


> In my marriage to my son's father, his attitude was a HUGE problem. I supported him while he went through medical school and residency. He had a chip on his shoulder about it the entire time. I was ok with it. He was doing something worthwhile. Shoot I just put all my income into a joint account, he paid the bills. He resented every penny that I spent on groceries, on our son, and God forbid if I spent any money on clothing for myself. He is the one with the mean/nasty attitude. So yea, his attitude mattered a lot.
> 
> After divorcing him I married a guy who earned more than I did. I the 2nd year of our marriage he was laid off is a world-wide layoff at his employer. He never worked again. He just spent every waking hour surfing the internet and playing computer games. He ignored his own kids who I ended up raising, he refused to do anything in the house, yard, etc. So yea, his entitled attitude mattered. I told him that if he would just take care of things in house, yard, and with the kids so it released me I'd be just fine with him not working. My problem was with him doing NOTHING by playing games. Again, his attitude mattered... A LOT.


Yes, it's terribly sad. Nobody should have to endure it. You have been dealt a very rough hand.



EleGirl said:


> There is no one "attitudes of women towards men who either don't want to or can't work". What matters is your attitude and your wife's attitude and can the two of you reaching an agreement.
> 
> Have you ever talked to your wife about this topic? How would SHE feel?


Yes I did. Many times. She isn't sure if not working would make me happy/happier. She did suggest I take on less work and see how it feels (I can decide that with my work). I don' really know - I don't want to fix or change something that's not particularly broken. I have a fear that taking this step has more unintended consequences than I can foresee at the moment.
I am concerned she (or my kids) will lose respect for me or that I will lose respect for myself.
On the other hand, we only have one life and when I think about what my regrets will be on my deathbed, I somehow doubt that "I wish I worked a bit more" will be one of them.
That's basically the dilemma.


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## David Darling

> my regrets will be on my deathbed, I somehow doubt that "I wish I worked a bit more" will be one of them.


So true. We all know this at some level. But talk to/observe anyone who's had a major health scare, and they _really get it_. They change their lives, usually for the better, often dramatically.


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## Personal

inmyprime said:


> Seriously, on playdates?? That's disgusting. Were the mothers married or single?


Why is it disgusting, people like sex and some of them have it easily shortly after meeting someone.

Some were married while some were single. That said only one of them knew I was married at the time, because we talked a few times before she offered. As to the others they just presumed I wasn't married, since through 18+ years I have seldom worn my wedding ring.



inmyprime said:


> Did you not consider working in addition to your wife (or taking on a part time job) and having a part-time nanny? I would have thought if neither of you felt like being the 'nurturing' type, that might have been more suitable?


We considered all sorts of things, which is the norm being the people we are.

Taking on a part time job would require us to have the kids in daycare, which was very expensive at the time (which negated the benefit of such work) and difficult to get into where we lived due to limited supply. That said what are nannies? They weren't a thing where we lived at the time. Likewise we didn't live close to our parents and wouldn't have them look after our kids for us anyway.

Plus we wanted one of us to be there with the kids, so she got two years with them at home. While I was often away for weeks or months at a time when I was in the Army. Then it was my turn, which went a bit longer than hers. That said she really liked having me around all of the time, as opposed to waiting on letters and the rare phone call when I was away.

As an aside where we lived back then was very expensive, with my wife at 30 & 33 respectively being one of the youngest mothers in our prenatal class, parent groups and playgroups. Our social circles were mostly filled with corporate types, academics, government bureaucrats, barristers, politicians, artists, media people and entertainment celebrities.


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## FeministInPink

inmyprime said:


> I can't quite work out what the attitude of the husband got to do with it?
> The two things in bold seem to be in slight contradiction...You have had two contrasting men: one was not earning enough (and it infuriated you) and the current one is earning more than enough and you seem happy. How could the attitude helped your XH here?
> Just trying to understand better as this topic is of interest and I am keen to understand the attitudes of women towards men who either don't want to or can't work.
> I am not so sure that when women say that work doesn't define men, they actually mean it, even with passive income streams.


I was not infuriated by my XH not making enough money. Even though I made more than he did, he still made a decent living. I was infuriated by his refusal to help around the house, or to go do errands. He made less than I did and worked fewer hours, even without the extra time I was investing in graduate school... his attitude was that because he was the man, he shouldn't have to do housework, even though I worked more and made more money. If I was making enough to afford him the luxury of not working, his attitude wouldn't change, and I would still be responsible for doing the housework (or live in squalor). This actually played out in reality, when he was unemployed for six months... when I was working full time and finishing my bachelor's degree part-time. He barely lifted a finger during that six month period. I would ask him to do things, and... they never got done, until I did them.

Conversely, my boyfriend, even though he works very few hours and makes more money than me, has a much more egalitarian attitude. If we were to get married or move in together, at the bare minimum, he would do half the work. But the way he is, he would probably do more of that stuff. His attitude is that he can put in extra effort since he has the time that I don't, and because he would rather have us spend quality time together, than me doing chores (and spending less time with him). He would do that regardless of income discrepancies.

My boyfriend clearly has a better attitude, and is prioritizing quality time and our relationship.

Does that better explain my point?


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## Diana7

A couple in my family have 2 very small children, the youngest aged just 6 months. They both worked full time till the eldest was about 2 when they moved to another area where the housing was cheaper. 
The wife will go back to work shortly, after maternity leave. He works part time at home and will care for both children while she is at work full time. He is very good looking and she is also pretty. 
They are a team and share everything. Its works really well and they have one of the best marriages that I know of. He is very good in the home and will cook meals and do housework when she is working as well as caring for the 2 children and working when he can. 

Later on when the youngest is at school he will probably get full time work again. They just about manage financially and think its worth it for now to be able to care for their own children. 
The oldest was at full time nursery for a year between the ages of 1 and 2 and they want to avoid that again. Its also expensive to send them to nursery.


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## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> I was not infuriated by my XH not making enough money. Even though I made more than he did, he still made a decent living. I was infuriated by his refusal to help around the house, or to go do errands. He made less than I did and worked fewer hours, even without the extra time I was investing in graduate school... his attitude was that because he was the man, he shouldn't have to do housework, even though I worked more and made more money. If I was making enough to afford him the luxury of not working, his attitude wouldn't change, and I would still be responsible for doing the housework (or live in squalor). This actually played out in reality, when he was unemployed for six months... when I was working full time and finishing my bachelor's degree part-time. He barely lifted a finger during that six month period. I would ask him to do things, and... they never got done, until I did them.
> 
> 
> 
> Conversely, my boyfriend, even though he works very few hours and makes more money than me, has a much more egalitarian attitude. If we were to get married or move in together, at the bare minimum, he would do half the work. But the way he is, he would probably do more of that stuff. His attitude is that he can put in extra effort since he has the time that I don't, and because he would rather have us spend quality time together, than me doing chores (and spending less time with him). He would do that regardless of income discrepancies.
> 
> 
> 
> My boyfriend clearly has a better attitude, and is prioritizing quality time and our relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that better explain my point?




Yes it does. 
Are you planning to live together at some point? It will be interesting to see if anything changes at all in either his or your perception. (‘Interesting’ not in a mean kind of way!)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

Personal said:


> Why is it disgusting, people like sex and some of them have it easily shortly after meeting someone.
> 
> Some were married while some were single. That said only one of them knew I was married at the time, because we talked a few times before she offered. As to the others they just presumed I wasn't married, since through 18+ years I have seldom worn my wedding ring.
> 
> 
> 
> We considered all sorts of things, which is the norm being the people we are.
> 
> Taking on a part time job would require us to have the kids in daycare, which was very expensive at the time (which negated the benefit of such work) and difficult to get into where we lived due to limited supply. That said what are nannies? They weren't a thing where we lived at the time. Likewise we didn't live close to our parents and wouldn't have them look after our kids for us anyway.
> 
> Plus we wanted one of us to be there with the kids, so she got two years with them at home. While I was often away for weeks or months at a time when I was in the Army. Then it was my turn, which went a bit longer than hers. That said she really liked having me around all of the time, as opposed to waiting on letters and the rare phone call when I was away.
> 
> As an aside where we lived back then was very expensive, with my wife at 30 & 33 respectively being one of the youngest mothers in our prenatal class, parent groups and playgroups. Our social circles were mostly filled with corporate types, academics, government bureaucrats, barristers, politicians, artists, media people and entertainment celebrities.




It’s disgusting that married women would solicit sex right in front of their kids.
On the other hand, you could have avoided a couple of embarrassing misunderstandings by simply wearing your wedding ring. That piece of info was missing from the story.
What’s the reason not to wear it?

My kids go to school where majority of parents are surgeons, lawyers, bankers and actors (I joke that it’s snob-ville at its worst): in the majority of cases, both parents have high powered jobs. It’s their choice but I do find it sad when kids don’t get to see their parents barely at all. I don’t know whether prioritising career over family are the kind of values I want to pass onto my kids.
Something seems hopeless and empty about it.


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## Lila

chillymorn69 said:


> The ones I know the wife settled because the biological clock was ticking. They were average at best looking and had good degrees. With low self esteem. And there husbands were always just along for the ride. And once he struck gold he became even lazier and less motivated.


That's so different from the women I know who are married to SAHDs. I described them in the post below. 



Lila said:


> I am a part of a core group of 6 friends who share common traits. We're all in our first marriage. All are long term marriages (>15 years). All of us are white collar, high earning working moms. Two have two kids, the rest of us have one.
> 
> Two are big time bread winners married to essentially SAHDs (they keep part time <15 hour per week jobs for appearances). Their husbands are night and day from each other but they do share one thing in common.... they do a great job of meeting their wives needs, whatever those happen to be. They seem to be happy.
> 
> I've given up trying to figure out what makes other people's relationships tick. If it works, more power to them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


They are the opposite from the women you know. 

The best looking, most confident ones are the two married to SAHDs, followed by the two with the equally earning husbands. 

The two in our group with self esteem issues (my girlfriend and I) have the lower paying jobs compared to our husbands but we're in more traditional type marriages than the other 4. 

All of this to say that an educated woman's looks are not a metrics for determining whether she marries a husband who chooses not to work. 


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## chillymorn69

Lila said:


> That's so different from the women I know who are married to SAHDs. I described them in the post below.
> 
> 
> 
> They are the opposite from the women you know.
> 
> The best looking, most confident ones are the two married to SAHDs, followed by the two with the equally earning husbands.
> 
> The two in our group with self esteem issues (my girlfriend and I) have the lower paying jobs compared to our husbands but we're in more traditional type marriages than the other 4.
> 
> All of this to say that an educated woman's looks are not a metrics for determining whether she marries a husband who chooses not to work.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


The ones i mentioned don't have kids. They waited to long even though the biological clock was ticking they in the end didn't manage to have kids.

So there might be a different dynamic going on.

If sahd's are good at it then thats there job and good for them . The question is what happens when the kids are older and the sahm dad has trouble going back to work.


Or ends up with a low paying job.


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## Personal

inmyprime said:


> It’s disgusting that married women would solicit sex right in front of their kids.
> On the other hand, you could have avoided a couple of embarrassing misunderstandings by simply wearing your wedding ring. That piece of info was missing from the story.
> What’s the reason not to wear it?


None of them solicited sex right in front of their kids or anyone else's kids either, since invariably the kids would be running around elsewhere absorbed in their play.

I don't wear my wedding ring because I don't like wearing jewellery, and rings make my fingers feel like they are throbbing. My wife also sometimes doesn't wear her wedding ring and other rings either, it just isn't a big deal to either of us since it's just jewellery.

That said wearing a wedding ring isn't a magical force field that stops outside sexual offers. Just as being with a sexual partner while out, doesn't always prevent some women or men from expressing their interest.


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## 269370

Personal said:


> None of them solicited sex right in front of their kids or anyone else's kids either, since invariably the kids would be running around elsewhere absorbed in their play.
> 
> I don't wear my wedding ring because I don't like wearing jewellery, and rings make my fingers feel like they are throbbing. My wife also sometimes doesn't wear her wedding ring and other rings either, it just isn't a big deal to either of us since it's just jewellery.
> 
> That said wearing a wedding ring isn't a magical force field that stops outside sexual offers. Just as being with a sexual partner while out, doesn't always prevent some women or men from expressing their interest.


I was trying to look up the info and it's quite sad to read the responses:

https://www.quora.com/Do-men-get-hi...aring-their-wedding-ring-or-when-they-are-not

How superficial if that's the case! (and not a product of men's imagination).


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## wild jade

Personally, I think it's awesome to have someone take care of the cooking, the laundry, the shopping, the repairs around the house. I hate that stuff!

My husband is also way better with children than I am. The only thing I'm good at is prodding them into getting into more trouble. :grin2:


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## wild jade

inmyprime said:


> Tricky. I could stop work tomorrow and we would be fine (enough income from investments). One of the reasons I am not stopping work is precisely because I am worried my wife and my family will see me differently. Plus I have these old-fashioned ideas that the man is only as interesting as his work...
> I am interested in answers myself.


If you've got the bucks, then you quit and put your time into projects that have meaning for you. Why would anyone look at you differently for this?

A lot of people see retirement as doing nothing but playing golf all day, but the people I know who have retired successfully (many of them quite young!) all still do very interesting things. They just do them on their own terms, in their own time, and leave plenty of opportunities for travel and fun.


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## 269370

wild jade said:


> If you've got the bucks, then you quit and put your time into projects that have meaning for you. Why would anyone look at you differently for this?
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people see retirement as doing nothing but playing golf all day, but the people I know who have retired successfully (many of them quite young!) all still do very interesting things. They just do them on their own terms, in their own time, and leave plenty of opportunities for travel and fun.




I guess I need to figure out what projects have ‘meaning’ to me... I worry I might find out after I quit that it’s actually always been the work’s projects that have meaning...but it will be too late to return.
The fact that two of my friends became severely depressed after quitting work makes me uneasy.
The other worry is what if my wife stops finding me attractive if I am not successful at what I do anymore. Maybe I’m imagining but I always felt she finds me more interesting/attractive whenever I came back home from a successful project.
It’s not so simple. I realise a lot of it probably has to do with the way one feels about oneself. Don’t want to cut off my nose to spite my face.


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## EleGirl

inmyprime said:


> A man who earns more than his wife is more likely to cheat? Or did you mean the other way around? Men with breadwinning wives more likely to cheat, study says - CNN


I fixed my post. I did mean to say basically what that article says.





inmyprime said:


> Yes I did. Many times. She isn't sure if not working would make me happy/happier. She did suggest I take on less work and see how it feels (I can decide that with my work). I don' really know - I don't want to fix or change something that's not particularly broken. I have a fear that taking this step has more unintended consequences than I can foresee at the moment.
> 
> I am concerned she (or my kids) will lose respect for me or that I will lose respect for myself.
> 
> On the other hand, we only have one life and when I think about what my regrets will be on my deathbed, I somehow doubt that "I wish I worked a bit more" will be one of them.
> 
> That's basically the dilemma.


You have reservations about your own view of yourself. That has to be your first concern... you don't want to lose yourself. Perhaps a lot of this has to do with how close you are to retirement age. A lot of people lose themselves after stopping work. So making changes slowly is probably very wise.


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## southbound

wild jade said:


> Personally, I think it's awesome to have someone take care of the cooking, the laundry, the shopping, the repairs around the house. I hate that stuff!
> 
> My husband is also way better with children than I am. The only thing I'm good at is prodding them into getting into more trouble.


I always did all that stuff when I was married. Im sure I changed more diapers than she did. Although I made more money than her, I worked fewer hours and a lot more vacation time, so I just thought it made sense that I do more chores around the house, but apparently that wasn?t her love language.


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## FeministInPink

inmyprime said:


> Yes it does.
> Are you planning to live together at some point? It will be interesting to see if anything changes at all in either his or your perception. (‘Interesting’ not in a mean kind of way!)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That still remains to be seen. He says that he never wants to get married again. I won't live together without marriage. But things can always change.

If he and I do end up living together, it will be long after you and I have forgotten this thread.

But yes, I agree, it would be interesting.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

When I decided to take a back seat in my business and begin my studies, I thought my attractiveness level would drop due to lower income. However, it was the opposite, women found it rather attractive that I had a passion, the drive to achieve my goals and the courage to take risks.

I'm sure as long as you don't bludge your way through life you have nothing to worry about, and there are women who look for more than just $$$.


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## aine

southbound said:


> I haven?t been close to a couple like this, but I?ve known of some couples in my life where the man doesn?t work. My daughter is in college, and a couple of her friends have dad?s who don?t work.
> 
> The men usually have some type of underwater basket weaving activity that they pass off as an income generator, but it doesn?t amount to much.
> 
> The women in these couples are attractive and have a job.
> 
> With a lot of women being attracted to men who are passionate about their jobs, what is attractive about being with a guy who doesn?t work? Gosh, I know that is a general question and could vary from couple to couple, but has anyone known a couple like this and wondered what fueled the attraction?


I know one couple where they made a joint decision for the H to 'retire' early taking redundancy from his job to stay home with the kids because the wife earned more and was not the 'stay at home type.' They seem to have a good marriage and relationship with their kids who are not at college.

Personally, I wouldn't like it. I am a bit traditional. I earned more than my H before I had kids and then give up a very good career when my first kid was a toddler and took up a job which gave me better hours but far less money. I knew if I struggled with the career and kid, he would not step up to the plate, I also had the majority of responsibility at home, and he was partying and living it up. Still very immature. My H was not into his career then but the birth of our first kid and me downsizing my job was an impetus to him to get going and become the provider he was capable of being.


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## David51

In the normal world men are the providers, unless the couple lives in the back woods and the husband tends a garden, wife works from home on the computer, husband hunt and fishes for meat.....I don’t see a husband at home doing the laundry and playing video games lasting for any legenth of tim



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## EleGirl

David51 said:


> In the normal world men are the providers, unless the couple lives in the back woods and the husband tends a garden, wife works from home on the computer, husband hunt and fishes for meat.....I don’t see a husband at home doing the laundry and playing video games lasting for any legenth of tim


Yea, a guy who plays video games and does little else would not last long with most women. But there are a lot of scenarios between that and a guy who is the sole bread winner.

In the real world, a lot of women contribute significantly to the financial well being of their family with 70% of all married women working. 50% of married women who work earn as much or more than their husbands.

And there are families in which the man is the SAHP and it works.


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## wild jade

southbound said:


> I always did all that stuff when I was married. Im sure I changed more diapers than she did. Although I made more money than her, I worked fewer hours and a lot more vacation time, so I just thought it made sense that I do more chores around the house, but apparently that wasn?t her love language.


I wouldn't call it my love language either. But I still appreciate not having to do that stuff. 

Plus he's a really good cook, and food is one way to my heart!


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## MrsHolland

David51 said:


> In the normal world men are the providers, unless the couple lives in the back woods and the husband tends a garden, wife works from home on the computer, husband hunt and fishes for meat.....I don’t see a husband at home doing the laundry and playing video games lasting for any legenth of tim
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


There is no "normal"

In my world he does not financially support me or my kids and visa versa. We don't live in the back woods actually the complete opposite. I don't need him to provide for me, don't look at him badly because he doesn't (his crazy Ex still expects him to support her) but I would leave him in a heartbeat if he was a lazy slob that played video games all weekend.


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## DTO

Interesting and timely.

A friend and I were on this topic. He knows I have a GF and do well financially. He told me to be careful, since most women are just looking for stability.

I responded that while such women certainly exist, my sense is the majority are attracted not to the money per se but rather to a man who does something productive and meaningful with his life.

Looks like I might be onto something.



uhtred said:


> 3). Husband used to work a high tech job, and then quit after making about 20 years pay in stock options. Wife still works a fairly high paying accountant job. He became completely lazy, doesn't work doesn't take care of the house, parties all the time. She lost all respect for him and will divorce soon I think. Both are average looking.


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## Betrayedone

EleGirl said:


> In a heterosexual marriage there are two people. The attitude of both spouse matter. Why would you think that that attitude of the man/husband does not matter?
> 
> A statistic that shows that a man's/husband's attitude does matter is that a man who is married to a woman who earns more, is 70% more likely to cheat. That's on him. His attitude matters.
> 
> In my marriage to my son's father, his attitude was a HUGE problem. I supported him while he went through medical school and residency. He had a chip on his shoulder about it the entire time. I was ok with it. He was doing something worthwhile. Shoot I just put all my income into a joint account, he paid the bills. He resented every penny that I spent on groceries, on our son, and God forbid if I spent any money on clothing for myself. He is the one with the mean/nasty attitude. So yea, his attitude mattered a lot.
> 
> After divorcing him I married a guy who earned more than I did. I the 2nd year of our marriage he was laid off is a world-wide layoff at his employer. He never worked again. He just spent every waking hour surfing the internet and playing computer games. He ignored his own kids who I ended up raising, he refused to do anything in the house, yard, etc. So yea, his entitled attitude mattered. I told him that if he would just take care of things in house, yard, and with the kids so it released me I'd be just fine with him not working. My problem was with him doing NOTHING by playing games. Again, his attitude mattered... A LOT.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no one "attitudes of women towards men who either don't want to or can't work". What matters is your attitude and your wife's attitude and can the two of you reaching an agreement.
> 
> Have you ever talked to your wife about this topic? How would SHE feel?


.......your picker's broken.........


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## uhtred

I think that is an important part for men and women. Related is the idea that each should be "pulling their own weight". Even in the case I listed where the husband earned a lot of money from stock options - his retiring gave the feel of him not doing his part. If it were a business arrangement, then sure, he contributed his lifetime's income after just a few years work. But in a relationship I think each needs to feel the the effort is shared, not just the results. 

Meaningful is important as well. The case I listed the husband became an artist. This might be viewed as "contributing", but to a partner who works a full time stressful job, I think it feels like their partner is just doing a hobby.







DTO said:


> Interesting and timely.
> 
> A friend and I were on this topic. He knows I have a GF and do well financially. He told me to be careful, since most women are just looking for stability.
> 
> I responded that while such women certainly exist, my sense is the majority are attracted not to the money per se but rather to a man who does something productive and meaningful with his life.
> 
> Looks like I might be onto something.


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## EllisRedding

I only know one SAHD. We all went out to dinner not too long ago (my W and his W as well), it was funny how easily I related to his W and he related to my W. 

For the most part though, everyone I know either both people work or the W is a SAHM. SAHD's are just not that common from my viewpoint. Honestly, I couldn't imagine ever being a SAHD. In my mind, and maybe this is old school, if you are a guy you work to support your family, simply put. I understand that depending on the situation this may contradict doing what is best for the family.

I still think, in general, women value a man's career more then men value a woman's career. Maybe that is starting to shift some, but not from what I have seen.


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## Wolf1974

I do wonder at times about what will happen when I retire. I will be done somewhere between 52 and 55 ....right now I am working hard to make 52 my reality.

I will do something, like a small part time business for myself, but certainly not the hours I work now. Since It’s highly unlikely my future GF or spouse will be able to retire then I will be a stay at home guy I guess. No idea if that will bother my future whomever or not but I admit I do wonder if this will be a big problem.


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## john117

Productive and meaningful... He he. An evening playing Angry Birds 2 doesn't count I guess.

Such damsels would miss out only non work skills then. Their loss...

I plan to retire in maybe 8-10 years at age 65-67. I'm really enjoying work right now, lots of cool stuff. 

But make no mistake. I'm not defined by work. I'm a decent guy whether I hang drywall or design stuff.


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## DTO

For this example, I can see it two ways. Definitely, just "checking out" would be a problem. No adult gets to live free of responsibility (there's always some task to address) and sitting on the couch all day does not make one appealing. 

On the other hand, if this guy is retired off of stock options he most likely worked an some very demanding jobs over an extended period of time, and excelled at his profession. He would have worked much harder than your average career person. So, it would be unreasonable for his wife to expect him to bust his ass like he still worked, just because she's still working too. That attitude does not account for the superior effort he put forth to be successful.

It would be like resenting how much a doctor makes, despite the 10 years of education and training (costing hundreds of thousands of dollars) and long hours even for seasoned practitioners.



uhtred said:


> I think that is an important part for men and women. Related is the idea that each should be "pulling their own weight". Even in the case I listed where the husband earned a lot of money from stock options - his retiring gave the feel of him not doing his part. If it were a business arrangement, then sure, he contributed his lifetime's income after just a few years work. But in a relationship I think each needs to feel the the effort is shared, not just the results.
> 
> Meaningful is important as well. The case I listed the husband became an artist. This might be viewed as "contributing", but to a partner who works a full time stressful job, I think it feels like their partner is just doing a hobby.


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