# I'm so insecure and confused!



## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Well here is my situation. I'm married for almost 7 years. Recently I discovered that my wife had been e-mailing her ex # 1 for almost 4 years. He would never respond to her e-mails (they had a very messy break up). I also found other e-mails to another ex # 2 (friends with benefit type) that were simple hellos and happy new year type things. 

Well, one day I checked her e-mail and there was a response from ex # 1. It was a group e-mail about a career accomplishment of his. I saw the e-mail, forward it to my account and then marked it unread. Unfortunately she noticed it had been forwarded and during the course of the day she decided to tell me that he had written her. I told her thanks for being honest and went about my business. Never told her I forwarded it to myself. I took that e-mail and wrote him asking him to delete her from his e-mail account. That I was her husband and did not want him to contact her again. Well, he didn't take it well and went on to tell me that she mean anything to him and that he just used her. 

Then later that night I searched her work e-mail and found other messages to ex # 2. They were more along the line if he was traveling soon and how married life was treating him. Once I found these I just decided to speak to her about it. It was mind blowing. 

After a couple of weeks discussing/arguing about it she finally told me "everything". Basically because I told her I had spy ware on the computer and that I already knew everything but if she wanted to save this marriage that I would need to hear everything from her mouth. Basically with this guy the conversation were mostly about the good sex times they had. She did admit that she told him that she wanted to do it again. She denied ever meeting him or the conversation ever really getting too explicit. Mostly things like I still remember the time we did it in the car on the way here and how good it was and stuff like that. They basically stopped e-mailing only because he stopped responding to her e-mails. In the weeks after I found everything out I was already in contact with him and told him I needed him to tell me what the extent of the relationship was. I also told him if I wasn't satisfied with his honesty that I would contact his wife and tell her what was going on. He complied and their stories for the most part matched. Not that I put too much into that because cheaters who cheat with one another have a bond/deal to not screw the other over IMHO. Crazy how these selfish people don't care enough not to hurt their "life" partner but have a an unwritten agreement to protect their cheating partner. 

We've been in therapy since May of 2011 and at times things are good and BOTH of us have started to do things different to make the relationship more fulfilling for both of us. Unfortunately I still have 2 problems. 

1. I constantly worry about being cheated on again. When I found everything out I was completely shocked. I never in a million years thought she would do something like this. 

2. I've noticed that sexually she uses sex as a tool. I had noticed it before the affair. Like when she wanted to get pregnant and wanted nothing but sex from me and then once she got pregnant it basically dried up. Then during her affair years sex was basically something I was given as a treat. Like a dog who does a trick. Then after the affair was out in the open the sex again picked up but it is done almost in a way to keep me "regular" & "happy".

My problem on both is obviously insecurity. I know it's a personal thing I need to work on but at the same time I feel that I am being played. I know our relationship will never be the same and IMHO thank god! I don't want it to be like it was when we were married while she was cheating. 

I guess I'm just very confused and I don't feel comfortable enough at therapy to speak of these things. I have tried in the past but it's always put in a way that these are things "I" need to work on. Unfortunately I don't "feel" there is enough sincerity from my spouse for me to be able to build on what we have learned at therapy and for me to work on these insecurities. 

Can someone please give me some advise. I'm pretty lost and walking around with a smile on my face which to me is faker than my marriage was for the first 4-5 years.

Thanks.


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## Dellia (Jan 6, 2012)

Sorry for your pain. It would be over for me. Not just because of what she did but how she is now. It looks like she isn't so sorry that she played around but that she got caught. If she isn't willing to love you back have you considered moving on?


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Dellia, thank you for the response. Maybe I'm being top harsh, I do feel she has shown regret and remorse for what she did. She has explained to me that she is very insecure. She is going to therapy on her own as well as our couples therapy. 

I have a difficult time with divorce because I have 2 small girls who I want to grow up in a house with two parent but also with a strong father figure. I have no guarantee that this is going to work out but I need to make sure I do everything I can to make things work out. If they don't then I can always tell my two beautiful girls that I did everything I could. Not that this will matter at the end of the day but it will make it easier for me when I look in the mirror everyday when they are home with their mother and I'm somewhere else living alone. 

Lets face it, at best I would get shared custody. Either way at some point during that I will be somewhere and my girls somewhere else. Hard for me to give that up. Just hard enough to live through my daily pain and insecurity.

Also a part of me wants to get things right. I want to be her everything. Just hard to sit on the side waiting for this.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

SHE has problems.

SHE needs to have them addressed, probably through individual therapy.

Once SHE has addressed HER problems, YOU will be more secure in your relationship.

I would even go as far as to suggest you research the "180" and consider implementing it, for your own well being. Your sense of self work comes from YOU not from her. You need to work on emotionally empowering yourself.

It will make you happier. You happier = more secure = better relationship.

The best thing you can do in life is take care of yourself.

Also, the only person you can change is yourself. Don't try to change her. Encourage her to change herself so that she is happier. Happier her = more secure = better relationship.

I'm a firm believer that the quality of the sex is based on the level of intimacy in the relationship. Happier you/her = better relationship = deeper connection = sex you cant stop thinking about


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You have to be prepared to walk away to make her change , you have to show your changing physically, emotionally and mentally . There must be no accepting drips of affection and intamacy . Decide if your prepared to do the grunt work and leave the marriage . If not stay unhappy , if so I suggest you set some marriage requirements , write them down, review them . When ready sit and discuss these with her , invite her to write hers down as well . The parameters you set is how much time you allow before you force a change in the dynamics or if she fails to respond with realistic requirements / needs then what do you do.

Read the book "his needs her needs" by Harley for pointers what a husband and wife's needs are.

Assuming your wife does not change then I suggest you start running a 180, don't dilute the 180 , she will choose to change or not . This is not an instant fix it takes months . If at the end she does not change then the 180 emotionally strengthens you to make the next hard decision if you want her in your life . The 180 is normally to help break an affair and strengthen the BS.

The proccess gives her a chance to change , while you should have frequent open communication with your wife you do not disclose your strategy . Once in the 180 your consistent message to her is for both your needs to be met and she has to step up to the mark.

WARNING: The 180 is NOT a manipulation tool to make your spouse end his/her affair and commit to do the work of marital recovery, IT IS an emotional empowerment tool to help you become emotionally strong so that you can move on with your life - with or without your spouse. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive.

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Also you might consider reading this book

http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

And doing a little self discovery...


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

It is hard to put your heart into reconciliation when you have had it shredded and "feel" that she could do it again.

Maybe you can work through it but that is going to require a commitment from her. That she understands your pain and that she would never do it again. But it does not sound like she is there yet.

You say your wife has used sex a tool for manipulation during your entire relationship. So you now recognize manipulative and controlling behavior from the word go. Have you talked about this in MC?

I understand how you can not commit with your heart. You do not trust her enough to do that and with good reason.

I am sure you both have issues that need to be addressed, but her behavior with bringing Exs into your marriage is not your fault and is totally unacceptable. People do come into marriage with a variety of past "baggage". But for her to try to keep past relationships "alive" is a big NO-NO. Does she understand this?

MC can help if you are both honest, open and committed.

Good luck.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you two read these three books?

Five Love Languages

Love Busters

His Needs Her Needs

These books come highly recommended by people that have used them on this site.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Start be reading here on Mens clubhouse:


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your advise. I just realized how involved emotionally I am in her that I totally forgot to be take care of myself. Unbelievable how it just smacked me in the face! It's crazy in the last 6 months I gained 30 lbs. I used to take care of myself and haven't for a while now. So worried about HER I haven't even thought of ME except when I think of myself as the victim. 

Thanks again!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

*She has explained to me that she is very insecure. She is going to therapy on her own as well as our couples therapy. *

So she is trying to explain her contact with EX BFs because she is insecure?

Is she making plans to hook up with one of them after you dump her? Does she understand that her behavior could be the thing that finally is the last straw for you?

One thing I have noticed about most betrayed spouse on this site. They all FEAR the future at first. They FEAR that the eventually outcome of a situation is not what they would want. They do not want to be in this situation. Fear is a paralyzing emotion. If you do not act you are accepting the current situation along with all your current doubts and fears. Is this what you want? I don't think it is.

Get a plan together and act on it. For your health and for the sake of your kids.

Hopefully you both can become stronger together. But maybe not. You have to be willing to accept both possibilities or you will end up doing nothing.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Well at the time when she was telling me these things I asked her WHY she did it and why she would allow herself to be used as a cheap thrill for these two guys. Her answer was that at the time after we had our first she felt very insecure about her body. Also in her two relationships she was definitely not the one in charge of the relationship and she allowed those relationships to become relationships where she was used sexually or for whatever other means she was needed (i.e. financially, emotionally, etc.)


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Knowing her past I always thought that if I showed her what a good guy was then she would always feel safe and more importantly feel better about herself. All the time not knowing that I was really loosing who I really was when she fell in love with me. Someone who was confident and knew how he wanted things done but also caring at the same time. 

I don't know how I became such a putts but I have. In all honesty until reading some of these posts I had not realized that it is more about me loosing who I am and was.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> . I took that e-mail and wrote him asking him to delete her from his e-mail account. That I was her husband and did not want him to contact her again. Well, he *didn't take it well and went on to tell me that she mean anything to him and that he just used her*.


I wish you would've showed this to her so she could get a reality check and realise what a good man you've been to her. I'm also concerned about this "rewarding" you with sex. A loving wife shouldn't do this to her husband.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Thanks everyone for your advise. I just realized how involved emotionally I am in her that I totally forgot to be take care of myself. Unbelievable how it just smacked me in the face! It's crazy in the last 6 months I gained 30 lbs. I used to take care of myself and haven't for a while now. So worried about HER I haven't even thought of ME except when I think of myself as the victim.
> 
> Thanks again!


A good workout puts everything ina better light. I like free weights. Working out is gospel around here.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Complexity, I actually did show her that e-mail. I showed her that one and my communications with the other ex. I showed her everything. She didn't say much about them. She basically cried and I told her I thought she needed to go to therapy. I told her it's not normal to continue e-mailing an ex for 4-5 years "hoping" to get a response. It's not normal to do this when you are single let alone when you're married. 

In all honesty the sex talk with her one ex didn't bother me as much as the e-mails to her other ex. Those hurt more because it makes me feel like I was the guy who was there at the right time to get married with and have a family but her mind and heart if not all, a good portion of it belonged to someone else. 

That's what I have a hard time with. I've tried talking to her about her therapy and how it's going and what she has found out there but I haven't gotten much. What she has told me is that she's in a much better place emotionally and psychologically than she was before.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

I feel so bad for you. Nothing like getting "duty sex" from a dishonest wife. Go to this website: No More Mr. Nice Guy. This is a site for men only and they will help you learn to become an "integrated man", so that your wife might be attracted to you again someday. Good luck and remember to take care of YOU first.

Quit living for her.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Complexity, I actually did show her that e-mail. I showed her that one and my communications with the other ex. I showed her everything. She didn't say much about them. She basically cried and I told her I thought she needed to go to therapy. I told her it's not normal to continue e-mailing an ex for 4-5 years "hoping" to get a response. It's not normal to do this when you are single let alone when you're married.
> 
> In all honesty the sex talk with her one ex didn't bother me as much as the e-mails to her other ex. *Those hurt more because it makes me feel like I was the guy who was there at the right time to get married with and have a family but her mind and heart if not all, a good portion of it belonged to someone else.*
> 
> That's what I have a hard time with. I've tried talking to her about her therapy and how it's going and what she has found out there but I haven't gotten much. What she has told me is that she's in a much better place emotionally and psychologically than she was before.


That's what I was going to ask you next, did she give you the "I love you but no in love with you speech" and did you ask her this? Most importantly you need to find out whether she married you to get over her ex because emailing for 4 years a guy who essentially sexually used her without getting a response should be a HUGE red flag for you.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Well I have addressed that in couples therapy and explained that I felt like the right guy at the wrong time. Her response was that what she was looking for from e-mailing him was closure. That she felt that she had put everything into that relationship and that it ended without her having a say. 

I have no idea what to make of that. Now I feel like she was rejected twice by the same guys. Once before me and once while married to me and that now she is settling for me because she knows that I am a good person. 

I don't know if she's OK with living like that but that's not why I got married. The problem is I don't have certainty of that. All I can go by is what she is telling me. I either make the choice to believe it or I don't. At least that's what they tell me at therapy......


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

I'll say it again...SHE has problems.

You can't fix them for her. You can't change her.

Lock yourself in a room with the no more mr nice guy book and a highlighter.

Then go work out.

Worry about yourself for a while.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> So worried about HER I haven't even thought of ME except when I think of myself as the victim.



That's a great quote. You may be seeing the light but you need to ACT on it. Prove you understand your situation with some actions. Tell us what you are doing...


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Saki, as of this minute literally 2 minutes ago I bought the book No More Mister Nice Guy. I haven't done anything much beyond that. I did about 2 weeks ago sign up for a 10K. I played volleyball last night with an old team I played on for the first time in months. 

Might seem weird to some people but I really haven't thought of improving myself. Almost embarrassing to write really. It's the truth however. 

I obviously need to start taking ownership of the situation I'm in and stop spending so much time trying to "fix" everything else around me. Time to start fixing me. For my sake and for my kids sake. We deserve it!


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Thanks to everyone. I didn't come into this discussion with much hope. I was maybe looking for an answer or two to some questions and I ended up getting a road map to taking back some of the pride I have left. 

Thank you!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You need to check out Married Man Sex Life for some great information.

It sounds like your wife is attracted to bad boys/alphas, but you're the nice guy/beta. In that case, you can't logically convince her to be attracted to a beta. She knows a beta provider is better than an alpha who will just use her. That's why she married you. But she's not operating at a rational level her. This is all subconscious desire. In order to better attract your wife, you need to get into shape and add some alpha to your personality.

Athol Kay (the website above) calls it running his MAP. Buy his 2011 Primer and just start from the top.

Good luck.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

We know how to help because we've been in your shoes.

The fact that you so quickly understood the situation makes me think you have a very high chance of walking away from this situation happy, without or with your wife.

I was in a very long downward spiral myself and like you, it didn't take long for this forum to help me see the situation clearly and start making myself better and not worse.

You'll find that the NMMNG book uses some of the same language you have been using, nearly verbatim.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Well I have addressed that in couples therapy and explained that I felt like the right guy at the wrong time. Her response was that what she was looking for from e-mailing him was closure. That she felt that she had put everything into that relationship and that it ended without her having a say.
> 
> *I have no idea what to make of that.*


Same



> Now I feel like she was rejected twice by the same guys. Once before me and once while married to me and that now she is settling for me because she knows that I am a good person.
> 
> I don't know if she's OK with living like that but that's not why I got married. The problem is I don't have certainty of that. All I can go by is what she is telling me. I either make the choice to believe it or I don't. At least that's what they tell me at therapy......


I understand completely, I'm a cynical person myself and without rushing to judgement I do fear that she sees you as the fall back guy as I don't understand what closure she would need from a guy who mistreated her and continued to do so by ignoring her for 4 years. Moments like this you realise what good you have at home and forget the past. Clearly she hasn't. I do worry that she is still in love with her ex given the bizarre amount of persistence she had despite being married to you and apparently in love. 

It's wrong for me to say that you should go for separation because I don't know you the intimate details of your relationship but I do think you'll never get over this insecurity of not knowing whether you were her first choice or just the guy she settled for. I know I certainly wouldn't, I'd certainly wouldn't be able to get over the fact that my partner tried to initiate contact with a guy who mistreated her while I'm here being a devoted and loving husband to her. I'd just feel used and worthless. What happens if the guy starts replying back? Do you think she'll forget about those 4 years in which she was dying to speak to him and ignore him?

Either-way, I think it's best for you to genuinely get the truth from her (really put your foot down) and if she has any decency she'll be honest and let you find someone that doesn't consider you as the back up guy.

Goodluck


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I do think you'll never get over this insecurity of not knowing whether you were her first choice or just the guy she settled for. I know I certainly wouldn't, I'd certainly wouldn't be able to get over the fact that my partner would be trying to initiate contact with a guy who mistreated her while I'm here being a devoted and loving husband to her.


It's her responsiblity to fix that.

But lil funnn can't control what she does. So he can lay it out that it's her responsibility to fix that...and see what she does.

He has to be prepared for the likely scenerio that she cannot or will not do what it takes to heal his insecurity.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Another couple useful books (this thread is turning into a shopping list, at least for me)

After the Affair
How Can I Forgive You?

By Janis Spring


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Saki said:


> It's her responsiblity to fix that.
> 
> But lil funnn can't control what she does. So he can lay it out that it's her responsibility to fix that...and see what she does.
> 
> He has to be prepared for the likely scenerio that she cannot or will not do what it takes to heal his insecurity.


I understand, but what I mean is, will she say that alittlefunnn is her one and only because he truly is _or_ because she's been rejected twice by the same guy and she has no one left.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Saki good point but one question, Ho exactly do I know if she IS trying to cure my insecurity?


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

I like the previous post about the "alpha male" and "beta male" types. Women want alpha males to father their children and beta males to support and raise the children. That's how nature wired them. 

Reading NMMNG will help you become more of an alpha.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

:iagree::iagree::iagree: She is a serial cheater. Get a post nuptial together regarding assets and custody. She can't be trusted, but she can hurt you financially by getting additional credit under your name. I would separate finances and shut off her credit cards. You standing up for yourself will cure your insecurity. Its called self respect, and confidence. These qualities are extremely attractive to women because they are alpha male characteristics. I know because I have them. LOL


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Lil funn - just keep going to counseling. This is what you guys need. Communicate, communicate, communicate. Every chance you can.

It's very weird she pursued her exes this way, but it also seems she is very damaged by her past relationships and how she associates sex with men. This is something she needs to work out in IC while you go to MC. She was clearly not using sex in a healthy way then, or now.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Gabriel, thank you. She is going to IC and MC. She's obviously pretty good at hiding her REAL emotions. That's obvious from the way she cheated successfully for so long. My question is how much should I ask about her IC? 

I'm starting to think that maybe I shouldn't ask at all. Almost to the point that I don't care so that she will volunteer the information just to "get me" to care. 

What are your thoughts?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You don't ask anything if its going to make you look "needy".


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Gabriel, thank you. She is going to IC and MC. She's obviously pretty good at hiding her REAL emotions. That's obvious from the way she cheated successfully for so long. My question is how much should I ask about her IC?
> 
> I'm starting to think that maybe I shouldn't ask at all. Almost to the point that I don't care so that she will volunteer the information just to "get me" to care.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


A simple "how did it go"? would be fine. And leave it at that. Let her elaborate only if she wants to. Don't ask any further probing questions, even if she opens up. Just listen and nod.


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