# How important is a partner's education level when it comes to marriage/children's education?



## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

Case closed  Thanks for all the responses!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

IMHO, it’s less about education level and more about marrying someone who is your intellectual equal. The only reason for me that earning potential matters is because it is simply a fact that there are many men who are uncomfortable when their wives make more than they do. When we first got together my husband had changed careers and was starting over. I made quite a bit more than he did because I’d been in my career longer. Once he started making more money there was a shift and I could tell he felt more comfortable. Now that he makes 2-3 times what I make, he seems more calm and settled. He’s a major Chad and an alpha male, so he never needed me to “submit” or be a lesser person on the marriage, we’ve always been equals and friends in addition to a husband and wife. It wasn’t that he needed to control me or put me down, but he did seem to feel less insecure when he made more. So that aspect of it I think is more important than education level. We both have degrees ( that neither of us use in our careers). I guess the point is, it’s less about both people having the same education level and more with being compatible intellectually ( which we all know doesn’t have anything to do with credentials) and having an income arrangement that both feel comfortable with.

As far as kids go, work ethic is the number one lesson. Right now my sons whole job is to go to school. Frankly, I don’t care if such and such person was a wild success without a diploma. My house, my rules, you’re going to school. If he wanted to take a few years off after high school to work, I’d let him, so he could see how he did and see what that meant for him. More and more we’re seeing degrees mean less, honestly that seems to be a net positive for everyone. The job market is changing and I would rather he work hard and be satisfied with his job than have a piece of paper from a school. I think college might be good cause he’s not super mature; the military would be better cause he is NOT tough and I’m way too soft. When I cry and say “but he’s my baby,” my husband relents (most of the time, not always). A drill Sargent (spelling?) won’t do that We’ll see how he does. But if he said “you didn’t, why do I have to” my answer is “because I said so” with my husband looming behind me sternly and that’s usually the end of it.

Edited to add: stuff about the kid and also this: I use the word “I” a lot in there, but we make all the decisions together. Neither I nor my husband make parenting decisions alone, we discuss everything until we come to an agreement. He’s not “my” son, he is “our” son. Thank god for that, I couldn’t do this without him. Well either of us could, but it sure is nice to have someone to rely on. It’s a team effort like everything else in our marriage.


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> IMHO, it’s less about education level and more about marrying someone who is your intellectual equal. The only reason for me that earning potential matters is because it is simply a fact that there are many men who are uncomfortable when their wives make more than they do. When we first got together my husband had changed careers and was starting over. I made quite a bit more than he did because I’d been in my career longer. Once he started making more money there was a shift and I could tell he felt more comfortable. Now that he makes 2-3 times what I make, he seems more calm and settled. He’s a major Chad and an alpha male, so he never needed me to “submit” or be a lesser person on the marriage, we’ve always been equals and friends in addition to a husband and wife. It wasn’t that he needed to control me or put me down, but he did seem to feel less insecure when he made more. So that aspect of it I think is more important than education level. We both have degrees ( that neither of us use in our careers). I guess the point is, it’s less about both people having the same education level and more with being compatible intellectually ( which we all know doesn’t have anything to do with credentials) and having an income arrangement that both feel comfortable with.


Hi TexasMom! Thanks for sharing your insight! Intellectual compatibility and income level are two things to consider for a working partnership. Really insightful thanks again for sharing! 

I missed the last half - my house my rules: to be completely honest I agree with you. I can't imagine my own kid not having a highschool diploma. I guess I will have a conversation on this with my guy and make sure we are on the same page.
And yes a good teamwork makes a dreamwork  I really really appreciate your sharing your thoughts again


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

I agree intellectual compatibility is the more important thing. As far as your future kids, you can guide them in the direction you choose. Neither my husband nor myself went to college for various reasons, though we are both bright and curious enough that we would likely have done well. I explained to my kids that times are different, it’s harder to make a living and college was what we expected for them. My oldest is a very successful actuary (college degree and a series of brutally difficult tests), my daughter has multiple degrees. (My youngest did not finish college, it really isn’t for everyone, but he is smart, decent and works hard.)

If you make it clear you value education and hard work and get involved in their schooling, that makes an impression.

I don’t think this is enough of a concern to avoid a future with a wonderful man. The aren’t always easy to find, and no one is going to come without flaws of some sort. If you love him, go for it!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I honestly can't understand why this is a problem. Why would your children worry about whether he did or didn't finish highschool? He did 20 years in the army. He had a career.
Incidentally many rich and successful business men did badly at school and left early. Richard Branson for example. 

My husband has a PhD. I left school at 18, started working full time, bought a home at age 20 and had my first child at age 21. 
We had very different paths in early adulthood but are very similar intellectually. He is better with science and maths subject's and I am better with English and the humanities. Just a silly example, when we occasionally play Scrabble we always get very similar scores. 

I just don't worry about things like this at all.


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

Angie?or… said:


> I agree intellectual compatibility is the more important thing. As far as your future kids, you can guide them in the direction you choose. Neither my husband nor myself went to college for various reasons, though we are both bright and curious enough that we would likely have done well. I explained to my kids that times are different, it’s harder to make a living and college was what we expected for them. My oldest is a very successful actuary (college degree and a series of brutally difficult tests), my daughter has multiple degrees. (My youngest did not finish college, it really isn’t for everyone, but he is smart, decent and works hard.)
> 
> If you make it clear you value education and hard work and get involved in their schooling, that makes an impression.
> 
> I don’t think this is enough of a concern to avoid a future with a wonderful man. The aren’t always easy to find, and no one is going to come without flaws of some sort. If you love him, go for it!


Hi Angie, thank you so much for sharing! If my future kids would ever question about the education, I will make sure to take time and have a conversation on the matter. Now that I hear from real moms about their real experiences, I feel much relieved now. Thank you really for sharing 🙏🏻


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I'll say this as as someone who spent 31 years in education.
College degrees are merely a means to an end.
I have a Bachelors, a Masters, and 30 Semester hours beyond that.
At the end of the day, they are merely pieces of paper that state that someone indoctrinated you for a period of time and you survived.
The real key is drive and ambition, and hard work. These are the true ingredients for success.
Success has many paths.
It sounds like the person that you are with is successful.
He did it his way, without a boatload of college debt.
In many ways, that's really awesome.
I have been married for 27 years to a woman with an LPN from a vocational program. 
I consider her to be my intellectual equal in many ways.
I think she was more impressed with my degrees than I am.
If you truly love the guy, his education is a mere detail.
His character and work ethic are what truly matter.


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> I honestly can't understand why this is a problem. Why would your children worry about whether he did or didn't finish highschool? He did 20 years in the army. He had a career.
> Incidentally many rich and successful business men did badly at school and left early. Richard Branson for example.
> 
> My husband has a PhD. I left school at 18, started working full time, bought a home at age 20 and had my first child at age 21.
> ...


Hi Diana! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Really appreciate it  I was a bit worried about how it will affect my own children (in the future) on deciding their educational path. I definitely want my kids to have high school diploma/probably higher (mainly because of much easier access to business world if they ever want to work in a corporate jobs). That got me thinking will it be okay. I never had to think about this before this man. I naturally dated guys with higher education degrees because I am coming for corporate world where everyone holds degrees. So this is new to me. But hey I must you sound really awesome you achieved a level of success at such an early age kudos for you  Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

Tdbo said:


> I'll say this as as someone who spent 31 years in education.
> College degrees are merely a means to an end.
> I have a Bachelors, a Masters, and 30 Semester hours beyond that.
> At the end of the day, they are merely pieces of paper that state that someone indoctrinated you for a period of time and you survived.
> ...


Oh my, thank you so much Tdbo, this is such a beautiful answer - instantly made me look at the same matter at another level of perspective. Really appreciate your insight really. Big kudos for you for 27 years of marriage!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

"Education level"???

what arrogance. I have met PhD candidates from MIT that could not tie their shoe laces.

"Intelligence level" might make more sense.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> "Education level"???
> 
> what arrogance. I have met PhD candidates from MIT that could not tie their shoe laces.
> 
> "Intelligence level" might make more sense.


It always amused me how some people automatically associate "intelligence" with college. Some of the smartest most successful people I know never set foot on campus.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

I have a professional degree. My husband was a military man with an AA when I met & married him. He is a smart man; he just didn't have a sheepskin to hang on his wall. So what? 

A fancy degree is something you buy. Good character is something you are. 

Can you talk to him? Does he make you laugh? Does he hold your interest? Do you like him? If yes, don't worry about what he did or did not graduate from. Practical knowledge is important. 

Your kids will be taught the value of hard work -- whether pursuing a degree or working your tail off in the military -- it's about effort. There are different ways to measure success. Remember that.


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> "Education level"???
> 
> what arrogance. I have met PhD candidates from MIT that could not tie their shoe laces.
> 
> "Intelligence level" might make more sense.


I meant education as in diploma or degree. The guy I am with is very intelligent. His intelligence level is not my concern at all. I was worried more about how his not holding a highschool diploma would affect my (future) children deciding on their educational path. Because it is true that it is much easier to land a job in a corporate world (If I were a mother, I would definitely concern about this matter and would discuss with my future husband and my kids for sure) I wanted to know if there are any potential issues that I have to aware of beforehand or anything related to that. 

I also once dated this guy who got into college in mid 20's and got his corporate job in late 20's and worked 3+years in corporate and I was the one saying, if my kids want to run business I would support them in every way even if they have to dropout college, and he was the one telling me, that he wanted his kids to finish the college and hold a degree. 

I have mixture of different ideas from other people, I wanted to get some insights from the married people  But based on the answers I received here, it seemed like I could just have a conversation and figure it out. I never meant to sound arrogant or in any similar way. Thanks for sharing your thought anyways!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

themisthetitan said:


> served military nearly 20 years and now retiring.
> 
> But without the degree part, he is nearly a perfect person to be with.
> So far, he kept all his promises - very reliable.
> ...


Often times the smartest, most creative, most industrious and hard working people don't NEED college degrees. For many of those people, sitting in a classroom for 4 or more years is simply holding them back and delaying them from reaching their potential. 

Where degrees come in handy is if one wants a specific set of letters behind their name to meet the legal requirements to perform that job such as MD, RN, etc etc

Some of the most successful titans of industry did not have college degrees at the time of their success (many obtained them after their success or awarded honorary degrees or even awarded posthumously. 

Of US presidents, only Woodrow Wilson held a Ph.D. 

Only John Adams, John Quincy Adams and George W Bush held masters degrees. 

Abraham Lincoln only had one year of formal education and Andrew Johnson did not have ANY formal education. 

Only 7 held law degrees at the time of their election. 

10 did not hold any kind of degree at all during the course of their lives. Some were awarded honorary or posthumous degrees after their service. 

A degree shows that you were able to meet the requirements of that institution's degree program. 

Yes a degree can open certain doors for people that may otherwise be closed to them. 

But in this day and age we also have many people that are crippled by student debt that might be making a few dollars an hour more than someone with no degree that has never had student debt.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

themisthetitan said:


> Hi, I am a single woman in early 30's, holding MBA running my own business.
> 
> Because I know by experience, practical knowledge matters much more than a degree when it comes to running business, I don't look into too much of a man's education level (degree).
> 
> ...


The degree only measures ability to learn academics. In my opinion nothing replaces common sense in the measure of a person. There have been many many people rise to the top who didn't even come close to getting a college degree. People who are naturally interested in things and educate themselves and read a lot can learn even more than someone who got a degree.


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> I have a professional degree. My husband was a military man with an AA when I met & married him. He is a smart man; he just didn't have a sheepskin to hang on his wall. So what?
> 
> A fancy degree is something you buy. Good character is something you are.
> 
> ...


Hi D0nnivain! Thank you for sharing!! It's all yes to those questions. I think I have a much clearer idea on this matter now. I am glad I posted this question gaining so much insight to this matter  Thanks again!


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Often times the smartest, most creative, most industrious and hard working people don't NEED college degrees. For many of those people, sitting in a classroom for 4 or more years is simply holding them back and delaying them from reaching their potential.
> 
> Where degrees come in handy is if one wants a specific set of letters behind their name to meet the legal requirements to perform that job such as MD, RN, etc etc
> 
> ...


Love it! Thanks so much! I guess I needed to hear this! haha. I will remember everything you said. Thanks again for sharing!


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The degree only measures ability to learn academics. In my opinion nothing replaces common sense in the measure of a person. There have been many many people rise to the top who didn't even come close to getting a college degree. People who are naturally interested in things and educate themselves and read a lot can learn even more than someone who got a degree.


You are so right about that. Yes if the person is naturally interested in things and constantly educate themselves, they can learn a lot more. It's one of the qualities of this man which I really appreciate. and I appreciate your answer as well, so thank you


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

themisthetitan said:


> I meant education as in diploma or degree. The guy I am with is very intelligent. His intelligence level is not my concern at all. I was worried more about how his not holding a highschool diploma would affect my (future) children deciding on their educational path. Because it is true that it is much easier to land a job in a corporate world (If I were a mother, I would definitely concern about this matter and would discuss with my future husband and my kids for sure) I wanted to know if there are any potential issues that I have to aware of beforehand or anything related to that.
> 
> I also once dated this guy who got into college in mid 20's and got his corporate job in late 20's and worked 3+years in corporate and I was the one saying, if my kids want to run business I would support them in every way even if they have to dropout college, and he was the one telling me, that he wanted his kids to finish the college and hold a degree.
> 
> I have mixture of different ideas from other people, I wanted to get some insights from the married people  But based on the answers I received here, it seemed like I could just have a conversation and figure it out. I never meant to sound arrogant or in any similar way. Thanks for sharing your thought anyways!


Your children will find their own way whether that be getting a diploma or degree or becoming an electrician or gardener or paramedic or whatever they want to.

I am a little concerned that you are so concerned about what you want your future children to do and you haven't even had them yet.
Please relax and encourage them in whatever path they take even if it's not the path you took or want for them.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)




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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I would say as long as you are with someone who values are similar to yours, then that is the important thing. If work ethic is your value, the fruits of that come naturally for many kids, such as academic achievement. But that's effect of having a work ethic and valuing academia. When I dated a man with less education than me, he had outstanding work ethic. HOWEVER, he also didn't immerse himself in his son's education. He didn't have discussions with his son about what he was learning at school, didn't show up to parent teacher conferences, but valued good grades, and achievement. I think you need to have both for your kid to do well at school - parental involvement and vested interest in your kid doing their best. Working hard is important, but if you don't have someone at home who wants to engage with you and values the things you learn in and of themselves rather than because it's getting you an A in History, you're less likely to view that subject as something that has important life value for you, versus the "will it be on the test" mentality. If your kid has a learning disability or other reason why academic achievement might not be accessible despite their intelligence, effort and growth is preferable over actual grades, I feel. There is some data to suggest that those who have read about growth mindset and have it embedded in their learning, actually perform better when academic subjects become challenging. They view struggle as part of the learing process, not as a sign of failure. And they therefore embrace the struggle more. I want my kid to do well in school. He has ADHD so his grades are fine rather than outstanding. But we have been working on valuing growth and progress over actual grades and his grades have improved. If nothing else, I feel having a partner who values the same things like persistence and curiosity over just getting an A, will help your kids achieve in life, not just at school. Those are important qualities.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

themisthetitan said:


> I am currently dating this guy who's also in early 30's and he dropped out of highschool served military nearly 20 years and now retiring.


A guy in his early 30's who's spent nearly 20 years in the military would have enlisted when he was around 10 years old.


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Your children will find their own way whether that be getting a diploma or degree or becoming an electrician or gardener or paramedic or whatever they want to.
> 
> I am a little concerned that you are so concerned about what you want your future children to do and you haven't even had them yet.
> Please relax and encourage them in whatever path they take even if it's not the path you took or want for them.


I agree with you. They will decide what they want to do for their future. I am not trying to make a decision for them by any means.


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

joannacroc said:


> I would say as long as you are with someone who values are similar to yours, then that is the important thing. If work ethic is your value, the fruits of that come naturally for many kids, such as academic achievement. But that's effect of having a work ethic and valuing academia. When I dated a man with less education than me, he had outstanding work ethic. HOWEVER, he also didn't immerse himself in his son's education. He didn't have discussions with his son about what he was learning at school, didn't show up to parent teacher conferences, but valued good grades, and achievement. I think you need to have both for your kid to do well at school - parental involvement and vested interest in your kid doing their best. Working hard is important, but if you don't have someone at home who wants to engage with you and values the things you learn in and of themselves rather than because it's getting you an A in History, you're less likely to view that subject as something that has important life value for you, versus the "will it be on the test" mentality. If your kid has a learning disability or other reason why academic achievement might not be accessible despite their intelligence, effort and growth is preferable over actual grades, I feel. There is some data to suggest that those who have read about growth mindset and have it embedded in their learning, actually perform better when academic subjects become challenging. They view struggle as part of the learing process, not as a sign of failure. And they therefore embrace the struggle more. I want my kid to do well in school. He has ADHD so his grades are fine rather than outstanding. But we have been working on valuing growth and progress over actual grades and his grades have improved. If nothing else, I feel having a partner who values the same things like persistence and curiosity over just getting an A, will help your kids achieve in life, not just at school. Those are important qualities.


I think you just spoke my mind. I want my man to actively engage with children's education, know what's up with their school life and academics. I was concerned because he also mentioned that street smart is more important than book smart, like multiple times so I am questioning if both of us could actively engage in children's education asking about what they learned and sitting down and solving problems together. I would do that for my kids for sure, I should ask him at one point but I am not sure how much he will be engaged especially he talks about having kids a lot and emphasizing street smart way more than book smart. I want my kids to have the belief that they could do better and improve by building a habit of hard work which requires parents' attention and care in the first place.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

themisthetitan said:


> I think you just spoke my mind. I want my man to actively engage with children's education, know what's up with their school life and academics. I was concerned because he also mentioned that street smart is more important than book smart, like multiple times so I am questioning if both of us could actively engage in children's education asking about what they learned and sitting down and solving problems together. I would do that for my kids for sure, I should ask him at one point but I am not sure how much he will be engaged especially he talks about having kids a lot and emphasizing street smart way more than book smart. I want my kids to have the belief that they could do better and improve by building a habit of hard work which requires parents' ation and care in the first place.


You are kind of intimating that both of you should teach children the same things and should share the exact same values and experiences. 

The reasons that reproduction takes place from two opposing and different organisms is so that the offspring gets DNA and different input from both parent organisms. 

Should parents be clones or should parents be compliments to each other where each brings different assets and different liabilities to the table?

My mother was a very educated life-long teacher who's entire life revolved around academics and education and was a life-long learner who was enrolling in and taking classes herself right up to her retirement after 42 years of teaching. 

My father was a self-employed entrepreneur who walked across the stage to get his high school diploma and never set foot in a classroom again. 

Both were successful and highly respected people in their fields and pillars of the community. 

Each had their own assets and liabilities that they brought to the table. 

Did a grow up to be an academic chasing one piece of paper to hang on the wall after another because my mother was an academic? No I didn't. 

Have I spent my 57 years as an unskilled, laborer toiling for minimum wage because my father did not demonstrate first hand obtaining college degrees? No. 

Through both of them I saw the value in obtaining necessary training and education to work in the field I wanted and I also learned the value of having horse-sense and street smarts and putting in the hard work. 

So ask yourself, do you actually want your mate to be just like yourself? Do you want your offspring to be a clone of yourself with all of your same successes and failures as a human being? 

Or do you want your mate to bring a different set of skills, values and traits to the table to compliment yours?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but this thread is a perfect example of hypergamy in action. 

Would a man with an advanced degree and owns his business be concerned about some chick he was seeing not having an equivalent level of education?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

themisthetitan said:


> I think you just spoke my mind. I want my man to actively engage with children's education, know what's up with their school life and academics. I was concerned because he also mentioned that street smart is more important than book smart, like multiple times so I am questioning if both of us could actively engage in children's education asking about what they learned and sitting down and solving problems together. I would do that for my kids for sure, I should ask him at one point but I am not sure how much he will be engaged especially he talks about having kids a lot and emphasizing street smart way more than book smart. I want my kids to have the belief that they could do better and improve by building a habit of hard work which requires parents' attention and care in the first place.


He is right in a way. I have known some very intelligent people who havent had any common sense.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but this thread is a perfect example of hypergamy in action.
> 
> Would a man with an advanced degree and owns his business be concerned about some chick he was seeing not having an equivalent level of education?


Nice one @oldshirt, I was about to post something like that lol!
themisthetitan's man might not care what level of education or success she has, men don't really care about that, they care about attractiveness, will be a good wife, has good genes and fertile!
That's the different between men and women!

@themisthetitan you have every thing you want in a man, but you are still seeking perfection!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

themisthetitan said:


> I meant education as in diploma or degree. The guy I am with is very intelligent. His intelligence level is not my concern at all. I was worried more about how his not holding a highschool diploma would affect my (future) children deciding on their educational path. Because it is true that it is much easier to land a job in a corporate world (If I were a mother, I would definitely concern about this matter and would discuss with my future husband and my kids for sure) I wanted to know if there are any potential issues that I have to aware of beforehand or anything related to that.
> 
> I also once dated this guy who got into college in mid 20's and got his corporate job in late 20's and worked 3+years in corporate and I was the one saying, if my kids want to run business I would support them in every way even if they have to dropout college, and he was the one telling me, that he wanted his kids to finish the college and hold a degree.
> 
> I have mixture of different ideas from other people, I wanted to get some insights from the married people  But based on the answers I received here, it seemed like I could just have a conversation and figure it out. I never meant to sound arrogant or in any similar way. Thanks for sharing your thought anyways!


i personally think a college degree is pretty important. So we made sure our kids got one. In my son's case, he was not ready at the "normal time" to go to college, so he needed two years to season before he was ready to actually go and study there (as opposed to partying 24/7).

But if one of my kids was not really meant to go to college, but was instead handy with their hands, a technical high school where they learned a trade would have been fine for us too.

In you case, i do not see why a husband without a college degree would be any sort of hold back to the kids. if you both want them to go, and make sure they develop good study habits in school, and learn of your desire that they go to college....then they will probably do fine in college


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

My parents always said, when i finish college I am out of the house. If I choose not to go, I am out of the house after HS. College or trade school was a given. 

Mom was beautician, dad electrician/BS degree. 

My wife was straight A HS student. I was #2 boy I'm my class. #1 is regional mgr for CVS over DFW.

I had book smarts...IQ-137 very technically oriented and top of my class in algebra....never studied..just made sense.

Wife wanted to be a CPA and is a computer genius in my book. I don't know crap in the bucket about office MGMT compared to her. Not having the paper holds her back from better jobs and those degrees come to her for help.

But I have the papers.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I have a bachelors in physics and a master's in a related field. Perfect scores on pretty much every standardized test I've ever taken.

That's my path.

My older daughter, if she wanted to quit school and get her GED, I'd be fine with that so long as she had a plan and drive. 

You never know what kind of kids you'll end up with. It's great to have your values and teach them. But parenting is a lesson in humility like nothing else. All you can really do is support them in finding THEIR path.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

themisthetitan said:


> Hi, I am a single woman in early 30's, holding MBA running my own business.
> 
> Because I know by experience, practical knowledge matters much more than a degree when it comes to running business, I don't look into too much of a man's education level (degree).
> 
> ...


I think you struck gold when so many women in your shoes can't even come close.

Grab onto him and never let go.

Tell that ridiculous part of your mind to shut up as the facts of this man certainly outweigh the flimsy risks that destructive voice is espousing.

This man sounds like a fantastic choice to marry and have children with.

Don't blow it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I never graduated high school but eclipsed all my peers at the time and many I came in contact with later who had degrees.

Many of them also have broken marriages and families left behind them along with only mediocre success financially if at all.

I'm still going strong, decades into my relationship with my wife and expecting our fourth grandchild.

There is nothing wrong with a formal education and there is nothing wrong with taking a different route.

How do you measure success?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but this thread is a perfect example of hypergamy in action.
> 
> Would a man with an advanced degree and owns his business be concerned about some chick he was seeing not having an equivalent level of education?


I'm actually surprised the OP isn't securing this guy with tungsten handcuffs.

He sounds like no slouch at all.


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## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

The only issue I see is would this man discourage or downplay education for the children. From your description, he is actually very successful. He should be smart enough that he can teach them street smarts without undercutting education. In grade school I was smart enough, but unmotivated. I was about to opt out of the hardest subjects including the more advanced maths and sciences. A relative took enough interest in me to sit me down and encourage me to stick with the more advanced subjects. He said it would keep more doors open for me in the future. I followed his advice. When I graduated high school I took a trade. That provided a good income. I later wanted to take more advanced training in an associated field. I was able to do this because of my high school subjects and marks. This paid off in spades in terms of opportunity and compensation. The potential is there for the two of you to make an outstanding team for raising and mentoring a family. You just both need the ability to see the value of the other persons path.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> I'm actually surprised the OP isn't securing this guy with tungsten handcuffs.
> 
> He sounds like no slouch at all.


But this is exactly how hypergamy works. 

Look at the concerns she is expressing. She is worried that his offspring will some how be "lesser" because he has not obtained the level of formal education that she has. She fears his lack of educational drive will lead the children to become ignorant, unmotivated idiots. 

She has implied that others will see him as "lesser" and that by default will view her as "lesser" for being with him. She has a nagging feeling she is somehow "settling." 

Women seek men with higher levels of status and achievement on what THEY value. Do you often see female fitness models with fat blobs? Do you see female corporate executives with mail room clerks or the night janitor? Or female physicians with orderlies? 

The OP here values educational achievement and status and places great importance and significance on it. This guy could look like Fabio and he has had a distinquished military career and secured a good retirement and has properties generating independent income streams,,,, but she is still bothered that he has not achieved that which she considers a critical component in a partner. 

She likely takes little comfort in all of us talking about virtues like industriousness, creativity, motivation, initiative, street smarts, hard working etc etc because those things can not be documented and quantified. 

A degree is something you can hold in your hand and hang on the wall and that one can document. Even if it is for something that may not be worth the paper it is printed on like sociology or history or english. It's documentation that someone can function at that educational level and education is something that she sees as important and an important selection criteria.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I think what may be most important is the two of you being on the same page when it comes to parenting philosophies. One parent can't advocate education while the other calls it a waste of time. Saying that it's still certainly OK for parents to have different histories, that's a great way to offer pros and cons of different approaches, but they should try to nuture the kids from a place of unity.

Personally I have a lot of respect for anyone who can muster out a twenty year military career. That's like five times the commitment it takes to get a bachelors degree. 😆


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> But this is exactly how hypergamy works.
> 
> Look at the concerns she is expressing. She is worried that his offspring will some how be "lesser" because he has not obtained the level of formal education that she has. She fears his lack of educational drive will lead the children to become ignorant, unmotivated idiots.
> 
> ...


But she said she agreed with your first reply, and the other replies, telling her it doesn't matter...


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

So would you care to explain how this man you claim is in his early 30s has almost 20 years in the military? Inquiring minds would like to know ....


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> So would you care to explain how this man you claim is in his early 30s has almost 20 years in the military? Inquiring minds would like to know ....


You can join at 17 with your parents' permission. She said almost 20 years so let's assume he's 35 now and has 18 years.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You can join at 17 with your parents' permission. She said almost 20 years so let's assume he's 35 now and has 18 years.


Maybe, maybe not. She specifically said EARLY 30s. Let's wait and see what the OP has to say before jumping to conclusions.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Many of the answers, including mine focused on a college education (or lack of a degree). If you have concerns that your kids won't graduate from HS because their father didn't, that may be a different issue. I think it's reasonable to expect . . . maybe even demand . . .that they get a HS diploma. There is not much you can do without one anymore, even enlist. I suspect if you bring it up, your guy will admit that not graduating from HS is a big regret. I suspect that when he has kids, whether with you or somebody else, he may be motivated to get his GED to set a good example for his kids.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> Many of the answers, including mine focused on a college education (or lack of a degree). If you have concerns that your kids won't graduate from HS because their father didn't, that may be a different issue. I think it's reasonable to expect . . . maybe even demand . . .that they get a HS diploma. There is not much you can do without one anymore, even enlist. I suspect if you bring it up, your guy will admit that not graduating from HS is a big regret. I suspect that when he has kids, whether with you or somebody else, he may be motivated to get his GED to set a good example for his kids.


Absolutely right. Must have high school diploma. Not getting a high school diploma shows very bad decision making skills and no common sense and so that means that overall you are really messing up and not got much character to move forward with.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

If a 20 year military career doesn't set a good example for his kids, I got nuthin'.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Absolutely right. Must have high school diploma. Not getting a high school diploma shows very bad decision making skills and no common sense and so that means that overall you are really messing up and not got much character to move forward with.


Yes, but when guys quit school, they are 17-18yrs old, so it's typical for them to make bad decisions at that age.

In another thread, people were DEFENDING women who were 18yrs old and selling their bodies for money, and excusing that based on their ages.

So if those young women aren't held responsible, then why should young men?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Yes, but when guys quit school, they are 17-18yrs old, so it's typical for them to make bad decisions at that age.
> 
> In another thread, people were DEFENDING women who were 18yrs old and selling their bodies for money, and excusing that based on their ages.
> 
> So if those young women aren't held responsible, then why should young men?


l
Al of them should be held responsible. Anyone should be graduated by the time they're 18. I was in first year of college at 17. Until they're 18 their parents are who's responsible whether they get an education or not.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> l
> Al of them should be held responsible. Anyone should be graduated by the time they're 18. I was in first year of college at 17. Until they're 18 their parents are who's responsible whether they get an education or not.


I agree, but in your post, you were saying that a man in his early 30s should be judged for a bad decision in his late teens, which I don't think is fair.

Especially because you didn't think it was fair for girls to be judged for selling their naked bodies at that age. You said their brains weren't developed, so they shouldn't be accountable...I think that's what you meant.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Absolutely right. Must have high school diploma. Not getting a high school diploma shows very bad decision making skills and no common sense and so that means that overall you are really messing up and not got much character to move forward with.


I know you're talking about his kids, but with that statement you just insulted the character of a man honorably serving a 20 year military career.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

When you're young, you do stupid things. You make mistakes. But you're young, and have time to recover from those mistakes. It sounds to me like the OP's man did just that ... recovered exceptionally well from the mistake of not completing HS.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

It sounds like this guy has it together, regardless of quiting HS. Not everyone is cut out to be in HS, but he obviously knew what he wanted. That is much more important. He sounds like he is an intellectual match for you and has a drive to succeed. A degree has no effect on that.

I quit HS and joined the army too. Now I did end up getting a GED, then worked while I earned my EE degree and MBA. My wife is a HS grad with no college degree, but has taken some courses needed to be a teaching assistant. We never said to our kids that they did or didn't have to go to college. We did tell them they had to graduate HS. They knew our education history and we talked about what they wanted to do for a career. There are lots of great careers that don't require a degree. It did so happen they both wanted to get into fields that needed a degree. They graduate this May.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hmmm. A lot of things said about those of us who don't have a high school diploma.

What does that say about me again?

I might have missed it the first time, you know, on account of me not being able to keep up with those of you that have a piece of paper that I don't possess.

I'm mostly teasing, mostly.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I imagine many of you know Dave Grohl - drummer with Nirvana and founder/leader of Foo Fighters. Guy is worth around $300 million. Richard Branson? Didn't finish school either. HIGHLY successful businessman. 

A good friend of mine has a Ph.D. Her husband dropped out of college after one year. They own their own highly successful business.

A college education today leaves many kids with low paying jobs and tons of student loan debt. Want to be an engineer? Go to college. Want to be a doctor? Go to college. Want to be an accountant? Go to college. Want to be a teacher? Go to college. Want to be a lawyer? Go to college (or, at the very least, learn to swim and survive in a shark tank!😁).

Don't know for sure what you want to do? Want to be a construction worker, electrician, plumber? Go to a trade school or learn your trade as a journeyman. Hey, if I had kids today, I'd tell them to learn a trade if they weren't sure about a specific career. We always need electricians and there are always jobs for them.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Credentials are not impressive if you’re going to talk to the person face to face. It doesn’t take long to figure out if someone is smart.

Kids are the same. If he is smart and you are smart and your kids are smart they will be able to tell if he is smart.

With that said, if you have a classical humanities education and can cite western literature from memory then that requires knowledge you won’t have unless you go out of your way to get it. It’s good if you want to hang out with poncy dorks; you can drop James Joyce references in your everyday interactions and then judge people for not getting them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> I agree, but in your post, you were saying that a man in his early 30s should be judged for a bad decision in his late teens, which I don't think is fair.
> 
> Especially because you didn't think it was fair for girls to be judged for selling their naked bodies at that age. You said their brains weren't developed, so they shouldn't be accountable...I think that's what you meant.


I would like for you to quote me where you think I said those two things.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BTW I am highly educated and come from a highly educated family with poncy dorks who speak useless foreign languages and things like that.

FWIW if my son or daughter decided to drop out of school and do something like pursue a military career I would be extremely proud of them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Got news for you. The military requires a high school diploma or a GED. Case closed.

One of many links I found supporting that 








Can You Join the Military Without a High School Diploma? - Operation Military Kids


Find out whether or not you can join the military without a high school diploma or GED, including the tiered system they use.




www.operationmilitarykids.org


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Got news for you. The military requires a high school diploma or a GED. Case closed.
> 
> One of many links I found supporting that
> 
> ...


or 15 college credits. 

But we're talking about a man who did it 20 years ago, when entry requirements were different than today.

Today the kid drops out of school, talks to a recruiter, and if his ASVAB(AFQT) scores are high enough that recruiter is going to get him through his GED.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I would like for you to quote me where you think I said those two things.


Ugh...ok, I'll try to find it in that enormous tangle of posts...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DownButNotOut said:


> or 15 college credits.
> 
> But we're talking about a man who did it 20 years ago, when entry requirements were different than today.
> 
> Today the kid drops out of school, talks to a recruiter, and if his ASVAB(AFQT) scores are high enough that recruiter is going to get him through his GED.


Starting in 1972.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

ccpowerslave said:


> BTW I am highly educated and come from a highly educated family with poncy dorks who speak useless foreign languages and things like that.
> 
> FWIW if my son or daughter decided to drop out of school and do something like pursue a military career I would be extremely proud of them.


The proudest day of my father's life was the day I dropped out of college and enlisted in the Navy.

Now I have my BS and MS in comp. science and pull in a very nice salary. But I sure wouldn't have made it without the military experience.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Starting in 1972.


There have been plenty of times since 1972 where one branch or the other faced recruitment shortages and began issuing waivers for a period of time, or dipped into Tier 3 recruits to fill numbers.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

For me, it depends. Can - and does - the person support themselves, and is able to meaningfully contribute financially to the marriage? If so, then their educational level does not matter much, IF they are reasonably intelligent, curious, self-motivating, and can carry on a conversation with me and others. As for children, if they support higher education and see the benefits, then their own lack of same does not matter. Perhaps their lack is a motivation to encourage their children to do better, much like parents from my parent's generation did (few had more than high school educations).


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Got news for you. The military requires a high school diploma or a GED. Case closed.
> 
> One of many links I found supporting that
> 
> ...


Yep, even back in 1990 I had to have my GED. I literally maxed out the ASVAB (military entrance exam) in the 99% percentile and I still needed my GED to get in.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownButNotOut said:


> If a 20 year military career doesn't set a good example for his kids, I got nuthin'.


But I don’t think anyone can be a career military person without a diploma or GED anymore. 

I would even be surprised if this guy didn’t obtain a GED through the service. 

Is he retiring as private??? You basically have to have a certain number of college credits to advance beyond a jr NCO or get drummed out of the service altogether. 

Did this guy actually retire and is drawing retirement pay and benefits or did he just get out and she is using the term “retire?”

If he just got out and he still has no diploma or GED, then her concerns of his motivation and agency are valid.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

oldshirt said:


> But I don’t think anyone can be a career military person without a diploma or GED anymore.
> 
> I would even be surprised if this guy didn’t obtain a GED through the service.
> 
> ...


He has to have made at least E-6 to make it to 20.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

OP, I'm not sure where the problem is here. 

Are you really worried about your future children or do you have a problem with his education level?

I ask because you describe a man that is very high quality. You are in your early 30's, correct? Do you want children of your own, or are you looking to adopt (both routes are great btw for anyone that wants to be a parent). 

If you think a better man will be coming along.... sure, anything is possible. I'd say it is not likely considering the way you've described your man. 

If you are looking to have children of your own, I would highly suggest getting on top of that now. I can speak from my own experience and those of many friends of my wife. I can't accurately explain the pain and anguish of going through fertility treatments but I can assure you that it is HORRIBLE. Every year that you tack on will just make it harder. That is the ugly truth. 

So have your kids with your man. You've got plenty of time to have this conversation about education.


For me personally, I'll take the real-life viewpoint: It has nothing to do with what is hanging on your wall. It has everything to do with what you can offer. You need to show that you have value to an employer or start your own business and sell a product that has value to consumers. It really is that simple. I couldn't care less about education. I know some people that have plenty to offer with little to no education and I know plenty of people that have high levels of education with very little to offer.

The discussion with your future children is simple. Once they get into their teen years you start to teach them that one day they will be taking care of themselves. They must become their own provider. They need to find something to do to make income. How do they want to do that? That is when you'll get your answer as to how much education they need.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Let me add some perspective from someone who spent 20 years in the Army, 13 of which was in recruiting.

The reason non-grads (GED's, or 11E) are not typically allowed to join is because their failure rate in completing a full first enlistment is five times greater than a traditional high school diploma graduate (HSDG, or 12L).

I say all of that to say this:

Not only did your guy retire, but he beat the odds. In my 20 year career, I met one GED holder (just ONE) who finished their career in retirement after 20 years of service. 

Your guy beat the odds, pure and simple. 

Take this for what it's worth, which isn't much...but he has my respect.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Got news for you. The military requires a high school diploma or a GED. Case closed.
> 
> One of many links I found supporting that
> 
> ...


Not only that, GED's are rarely open for enlistment. And when they are, it is limited to less than 5% of total enlistments in a given year. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DownButNotOut said:


> There have been plenty of times since 1972 where one branch or the other faced recruitment shortages and began issuing waivers for a period of time, or dipped into Tier 3 recruits to fill numbers.


When I was first assigned as a detail recruiter in 2000, they opened up non-grads during mission week at the close of the FY. 

We put two in that week.

ETA: After my retirement in 2013, I had not seen non-grads open up again. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

As long as he doesn't eat the yellow snow.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S.S. as a man who never got his diploma, I was a very involved father who took great interest in my boys' education and often tutored them, and even their girlfriends, in several subjects including math, biology, physics and history.

My grandmother never graduated, lived through the great depression, raising a family with 6 children and was a human calculator that would scold us grandchildren if we didn't do math in our heads.

My grandfather may or may not have a diploma (doubtful) and he was hired by owners of companies with production lines, including lumber mills, to maintain, repair and improve their machinery.

He could fabricate anything and often did. He made me a forge from scratch, having never done anything like it before, because he found I was interested in blacksmithing.

I used it to make a fairly formidable long sword out of spring steal.


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> OP, I'm not sure where the problem is here.
> 
> Are you really worried about your future children or do you have a problem with his education level?
> 
> ...


I was working then came back didn't expect this many responses First of all, thank you so much sincerely! To quickly answer your question, I indeed got worried about children's education, I saw some people having similar question, I added some notes on my original posting to be more clear maybe check that out when you can ). Your answer is so thorough really helpful, I would take a mental note on a few points you made on here. Thanks again! 🙏🏻


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I would like for you to quote me where you think I said those two things.


This was on pg. 26 of the Hefner thread that exploded...


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

Prodigal said:


> Maybe, maybe not. She specifically said EARLY 30s. Let's wait and see what the OP has to say before jumping to conclusions.


Hi just seeing this. If I remember correctly he joined when he was 17. Then he served 17 or 18 years.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks for responding to my query. Did he receive special training in the military? Former military have excellent employment opportunities for the most part.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

themisthetitan said:


> I was working then came back didn't expect this many responses First of all, thank you so much sincerely! To quickly answer your question, I indeed got worried about children's education, I saw some people having similar question, I added some notes on my original posting to be more clear maybe check that out when you can ). Your answer is so thorough really helpful, I would take a mental note on a few points you made on here. Thanks again! 🙏🏻


Ok. The edit you put in helps. 

I've seen this many times before. This is society's fault and the extreme pressure that our culture puts on people to become "educated" even if it puts you thousands in debt and teaches you nothing of value to offer to an employer. In my personal opinion, it is ridiculous. So, when someone doesn't go down that path and can punk someone else even though that someone else has a degree, I get it. Yeah, he really doesn't need to do that...... but if I was jn his position? I would definitely do the same thing. Especially if the person he's embarrassing the crap out of is arrogant. And let's be honest, many college educated people are very arrogant. Especially those with worthless degrees. I mean, did you hear about the lesbian dance theory factory being built 2 blocks from here? No?

Yeah. Me neither. 


Those are the people I really enjoy laughing at. 


I have 10 years on you. I have two 9 year old kids. My wife and I are college educated. Our loans were paid off before we hit 30. Why? Because we learned something of value. In that case, college is fine. I didn't need to go to college to make money. I could have gone to a trade school. Hell, I could have not finished high school and just figured something out the way your man has done. If one is intelligent, then things are typically just figured out. I'll be telling my kids the same thing.


School is important until it isn't. 


They need to start thinking about what they have to offer the world as they go through their teen years. Setting themselves up for college so they can turn their noses up at other people won't put food in their bellies or a roof over their heads. They need to learn something of value and there are many ways to do that outside of what our culture considers "education".


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## themisthetitan (12 mo ago)

Prodigal said:


> Thanks for responding to my query. Did he receive special training in the military? Former military have excellent employment opportunities for the most part.


He was a special force and did get training for that. I don't have the info on what trainings he received. and yes, he's a smart guy with work/life experiences I am sure he'll do well in life, no doubt about it. thanks really for putting your thoughts into this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@themisthetitan,

You said that your husband dropped out of school and joined the military. Did he get a GED?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> This was on pg. 26 of the Hefner thread that exploded...
> 
> View attachment 82638


I'm not seeing the second quote you were talking about. And there's nothing in that about excusing behavior. Where's that second quote you're talking about?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm not seeing the second quote you were talking about. And there's nothing in that about excusing behavior. Where's that second quote you're talking about?


I got the implication that they shouldn't be held accountable later in life for what they did in porn because their brains weren't fully formed yet...that's what I THOUGHT you meant, but the posts were flying very quickly, and I wasn't paying close attention, so I MIGHT be wrong, if that wasn't what you meant.

THIS is the other post, from THIS thread...


DownByTheRiver said:


> Absolutely right. Must have high school diploma. Not getting a high school diploma shows very bad decision making skills and no common sense and so that means that overall you are really messing up and not got much character to move forward with.


You seemed to reply much more harshly to a guy from 16-18 quitting school than you did to a girl from 18-20 for selling her body. That's what I commented on, because if I'm reading your meaning correctly, it confuses me. And it's not fair.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> I have to admit there were several women in graduate condensed matter class who looked at the Onsager problem and were like, “Yes, of course.”
> 
> I found them more scary than walking around a dark street in north Oakland with crack dealers on the porches.


You went full egghead man! Never go full egghead!!!😉


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@themisthetitan

I really wish you had not removed your original post. It's a very good topic that a lot of people, both men and women struggle with. For every person who posts here on TAM 10 to 100 times as many people who are not registered are Readling the threads. So, a lot of people could benefit from this thread.

Because of that I would like to 'undeleted' the posts that you deleted but will only do that if you agree to it.

If you are still around here, let me know.


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