# Bachelorette Party in Vegas



## Djkool

My wife's cousin and good friend is getting married in October and planned a bachelorette party in Las Vegas for three days in March. I think about 6 or 7 girls are going, two of them have boyfriends and the rest are single.

I asked what kind of things they would likely be doing, and she said mostly going to the clubs, dancing, drinking ect. All of the girls going are very attractive and are the type that really like to party.

My wife isn't really the club / party type though. She has never given me any reason not to trust her. She does, on rare occasion go out with these girls, but it doesn't bother me, as she comes home at a decent time.

However, I am uncomfortable in the thought of her getting dressed to kill along with the other girls and going out to the dance clubs and getting really drunk in Las Vegas. No matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself feel ok about it. In fact, it makes me physically ill.

Maybe I have let my imagination get the best of me, and the Las Vegas club scene isn't really the meat market that I'm imagining it to be.

Anyway, every month or so since this was announced I've brought it up to talk about and to tell her I wasn't really comfortable with it. The talks would usually end in fights and her being annoyed by me. She did say she understood, and probably wouldn't feel that great if I was doing the same thing (which I would not).

What is everybody's take on this? What would you do? Am I being controlling and jealous? I think I know what the consensus will be, but wanted to ask anyway. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OpenWindows

You didn't say if she's planning on going, or if she's still deciding.

If you've always trusted her and she usually goes out without a problem, what specifically are you worried about? Do you think she would cheat?

And are you bringing it up out of the blue once a month and just reminding her that you're not okay with it (that would be annoying to me too), or is it coming up in conversation?


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## Marduk

It's not good. 

But you also can't stop her. I know; I tried. 

Set boundaries. Have her call you every night. 

And plan a boys trip to Vegas and let her know it's coming. 

That's all that really worked for me. After my boys trip, suddenly she "got it."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Djkool

marduk said:


> It's not good.
> 
> But you also can't stop her. I know; I tried.
> 
> Set boundaries. Have her call you every night.
> 
> And plan a boys trip to Vegas and let her know it's coming.
> 
> That's all that really worked for me. After my boys trip, suddenly she "got it."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wouldn't be a huge fan of planning a trip just to get revenge or to make myself feel better. I think that would only damage things further. However, my good friend did invite me on an all guys Vegas trip a few years ago and I declined as I thought it would be stressful to my wife, and I would feel bad spending money that way.

I could stop her if I wanted too. If I told her it was a "no go" for me, then she wouldn't do it. 

I just hate to be the "ruiner of fun".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Djkool

OpenWindows said:


> You didn't say if she's planning on going, or if she's still deciding.
> 
> If you've always trusted her and she usually goes out without a problem, what specifically are you worried about? Do you think she would cheat?
> 
> And are you bringing it up out of the blue once a month and just reminding her that you're not okay with it (that would be annoying to me too), or is it coming up in conversation?


She is still thinking about it, but I think she will end up not going, knowing that it bothers me.

She has always been the one to bring it up i think.

Ultimately, yes I am worried she might get really drunk, and possibly do something stupid. The attitude is "what happens in vegas stays in vegas" right? All of the girls are good looking, and i think they will get the attention of a lot of guys. 2000 miles away from home, nobody to answer to, maybe a guy she finds really attractive starts hitting on her... like i said, i'm probably letting my imagination get the best of me.

It's annoying to you if your SO brings up something to you that they feel hurt or insecure about?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter

*Ultimately, yes I am worried she might get really drunk, and possibly do something stupid. The attitude is "what happens in vegas stays in vegas" right? All of the girls are good looking, and i think they will get the attention of a lot of guys. 2000 miles away from home, nobody to answer to, maybe a guy she finds really attractive starts hitting on her... like i said, i'm probably letting my imagination get the best of me.
*

DJ

Smart thinking. Probably 99% of those that do something inappropriate in these situations have no intention of it happening. But mix in alcohol, and probably a lot of it, and a bunch of girlfriends urging her to "have fun", and a club full of guys trying to get her number , and all it takes is one bad decision with a LOT of opportunity.

The simple fact I s that your wife should explain to you why going away for a few nights with a bunch of her friends, more single than married who want to party and relive Spring Break, is something she really has a need to do.

This little bachelorette week end is not just having a male stripper in for an hour. It is 72 hours or more of partying with no accountability at all.

Unless you are doing the same thing, your not being comfortable with it should be enough for her to not go and not act like you are some kind of controlling freak.

This new double standard that seems to be out there that anything women do is just good clean girl fun and guys are pigs for doing the same thing is getting old.

I would try to have a rational, honest discussion with her as to why she does not see why you are uncomfortable. If she really really wants to go, why does being in that environment without you and have guys pursuing her appeal to her.

Just my opinion. I know some will differ.


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## Pollo

marduk said:


> It's not good.
> 
> But you also can't stop her. I know; I tried.
> 
> Set boundaries. Have her call you every night.
> 
> And plan a boys trip to Vegas and let her know it's coming.
> 
> That's all that really worked for me. After my boys trip, suddenly she "got it."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It sucks that you had to wait that long for her to get it.
If I was in OP's position I would just say no. I wouldn't care what she thinks about it, like if she thinks it's "oppressive". A married woman going with a bunch of single women to Vegas to get drunk and party is beyond stupid. 

If she wants to live that life then she can be single and do it.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
has your wife ever given you reason to think she will do something wrong?

Old story: many years ago my wife and I were at a wedding a friend to an old girlfriend of mine. The guys decided to have a bachelor party. My wife didn't want me to go, so I didn't - but being told not to made me really unhappy. She imagined prostitutes etc. What happened (I learned from a reliable source) was the guys went out to a bar for a few hours, go mildly drunk, then went home. If I'd gone, I wouldn't have drunk (I don't) so it would have been just a few hours with friends.

Not all bachelor / bachelorette parties are wild things out of hollywood movies.


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## Djkool

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> has your wife ever given you reason to think she will do something wrong?
> 
> Old story: many years ago my wife and I were at a wedding a friend to an old girlfriend of mine. The guys decided to have a bachelor party. My wife didn't want me to go, so I didn't - but being told not to made me really unhappy. She imagined prostitutes etc. What happened (I learned from a reliable source) was the guys went out to a bar for a few hours, go mildly drunk, then went home. If I'd gone, I wouldn't have drunk (I don't) so it would have been just a few hours with friends.
> 
> Not all bachelor / bachelorette parties are wild things out of hollywood movies.


No, she's never given me any reason to believe she has, or would fool around at all. I'm fortunate and greatful to have her.

I would be ok with a typical bachelorette party that was one drunken night, even with a male stripper. I wouldn't be estatic about it, but i wouldn't say anything. She would come home that night though, and that would be enough to make me feel secure.

Three days and two nights out with single girls in Las Vegas is just a bit past my comfort level.

Sitting at home would make me feel like a fool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA

You know the old saying what's good for the goose is good for the gander?

How about: what's bad for the goose is bad for the gander?

The real question is what is anyone about to get married going to Vegas to screw around.


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## Adelais

Djkool said:


> I would be ok with a typical bachelorette party that was one drunken night, even with a male stripper. I wouldn't be estatic about it, but i wouldn't say anything. She would come home that night though, and that would be enough to make me feel secure.
> 
> Three days and two nights out with single girls in Las Vegas is just a bit past my comfort level.
> 
> Sitting at home would make me feel like a fool.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If my man didn't mind that I had a drunken night with girl friends, and even with a male stripper, I would wonder if he respected me, or cherished me. It would make me wonder if he respected himself to be fine with his woman oogling over a naked, gyrating man.

She is not respecting you because you do not have firm boundaries.


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## Djkool

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> If my man didn't mind that I had a drunken night with girl friends, and even with a male stripper, I would wonder if he respected me, or cherished me. It would make me wonder if he respected himself to be fine with his woman oogling over a naked, gyrating man.
> 
> She is not respecting you because you do not have firm boundaries.


Well, i see that type of bachelorette party to be a novelty. I dont think my wife would oogle over a stripper. I think she would actually find it gross. I see where you are coming from. Its not easy, let her go and i dont care. Try and stop her and im a jealous A hole. I do appreciate a womans perspective on this though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> has your wife ever given you reason to think she will do something wrong?
> 
> Old story: many years ago my wife and I were at a wedding a friend to an old girlfriend of mine. The guys decided to have a bachelor party. My wife didn't want me to go, so I didn't - but being told not to made me really unhappy. She imagined prostitutes etc. What happened (I learned from a reliable source) was the guys went out to a bar for a few hours, go mildly drunk, then went home. If I'd gone, I wouldn't have drunk (I don't) so it would have been just a few hours with friends.
> 
> Not all bachelor / bachelorette parties are wild things out of hollywood movies.


No one goes to Vegas for tame bachelor/bachelorette parties.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adelais

Djkool said:


> Well, i see that type of bachelorette party to be a novelty. I dont think my wife would oogle over a stripper. I think she would actually find it gross. I see where you are coming from. Its not easy, let her go and i dont care. Try and stop her and im a jealous A hole. I do appreciate a womans perspective on this though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You cannot stop her, but you can set boundaries. I recently set a boundary with extreme consequences for breaking it. I was willing to lose the marriage to save it, and I meant it. He decided he valued the marriage more than he valued the issue he was fighting for.

Perhaps someone will join your thread who will help you come up with a boundary and consequence for breaking it that is constructive not only for you but for our marriage in the long run.


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## GusPolinski

Djkool said:


> Well, i see that type of bachelorette party to be a novelty. I dont think my wife would oogle over a stripper. I think she would actually find it gross. I see where you are coming from. Its not easy, let her go and i dont care. Try and stop her and im a jealous A hole. I do appreciate a womans perspective on this though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So don't try to stop her.

By all means, be honest w/ her -- tell her that you're not cool w/ it, and that you'd prefer that she not go... but that you won't stop her. If she asks you why you're so apprehensive about it, _calmly_ tell her that you're not comfortable w/ her being in a such an environment, 2000 miles away from home and surrounded by the potential for poor decision-making that so often accompanies public intoxication and peer pressure.

If, after you've told her that, she decides to go anyway, you'll know where you stand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015

Djkool said:


> Well, i see that type of bachelorette party to be a novelty. I dont think my wife would oogle over a stripper. I think she would actually find it gross. I see where you are coming from. Its not easy, let her go and i dont care. Try and stop her and im a jealous A hole. I do appreciate a womans perspective on this though.


Tell it just like you told it here. Tell her that you feel a no win situation. Tell her you don't like the idea of her going to Vegas to party it up for several days with a bunch of single woman. Tell her that "I can't make you not go but it would really bother you if she does. Then you have to accept her decision.

If you let her make the choice and she stays home then you're good to go.

And any friend who would push your wife to say, "no man of mine will tell me what to do" and not respect a man's marriage then you'll quickly find out who her sheoty friends are too. My guess is your wife will be more concerned about how her friends view her deciding not to go.

Any wife or husband with a ounce of concern for their marriage would understand why their partner could be apprehensive about Vegas. 

There is trust, but your wife needs to decide if she wants to test the trust.


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## Omego

If I were invited to such an event, I'd want my husband to not want me to go. And I wouldn't even mind if he said "no sorry you can't go". Mind you, he would never ever tell me what to do, but it would be clear to me that I should not participate in a wild, drunken party because it would upset him. I'm his wife, so what business do I have out partying for two nights without him?

Don't be afraid to make it crystal clear that you find it inappropriate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Djkool

Omego said:


> If I were invited to such an event, I'd want my husband to not want me to go. And I wouldn't even mind if he said "no sorry you can't go". Mind you, he would never ever tell me what to do, but it would be clear to me that I should not participate in a wild, drunken party because it would upset him. I'm his wife, so what business do I have out partying for two nights without him?
> 
> Don't be afraid to make it crystal clear that you find it inappropriate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you everybody for the responses. I'm a bit surprised and thought everyone would say to support her going, which just seems crazy to me.

I didnt say this in my original post, because I wanted to get peoples perspectives on the situation and thought maybe i was being unreasonable, but she already agreed not to go.

I felt guilty about it though. I felt like a stick in the mud... kind of like a fun ruiner.

Thank you everybody for your thoughtful answers. I don't feel so crazy now for feeling this way. I just didnt really have anybody to talk to about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

On one hand I understand how you feel.

But on the other hand, I know that a lot of women would not do what you seem to assume will go on. My sisters, friends and myself have done things like that.. meaning gone off for a 'party' weekend. And nothing happened that would be bad or damaging to anyone's marriage. 

There are fun things to do in Vegas that can only be done in Vegas. Some of the shows, walking around seeing the sites. To assume that anyone going to Vegas is going to act out to the point that you assume is, well disturbing. If my husband thought that of me, we'd have problems.


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## jdawg2015

EleGirl said:


> On one hand I understand how you feel.
> 
> But on the other hand, I know that a lot of women would not do what you seem to assume will go on. My sisters, friends and myself have done things like that.. meaning gone off for a 'party' weekend. And nothing happened that would be bad or damaging to anyone's marriage.
> 
> *There are fun things to do in Vegas that can only be done in Vegas.* Some of the shows, walking around seeing the sites. *To assume that anyone going to Vegas is going to act out to the point that you assume is, well disturbing. *If my husband thought that of me, we'd have problems.


I think based on OP's description of these friends, they aren't going just to watch the water fountains and Circ...

As to the bold statements, I would say that for anyone NOT to assume the single friends would be doing some heavy partying lacks both imagination and realistic expectations.

Many people have ruined marriages from doing stupid things that they otherwise would not do while in Vegas.


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## EleGirl

jdawg2015 said:


> I think based on OP's description of these friends, they aren't going just to watch the water fountains and Circ...
> 
> As to the bold statements, I would say that for anyone NOT to assume the single friends would be doing some heavy partying lacks both imagination and realistic expectations.
> 
> Many people have ruined marriages from doing stupid things that they otherwise would not do while in Vegas.


And many people do not party to the point of getting so drunk that they lose control. 

And many marriages have not been ruined because people go to vegas for a party.

The OP knows his wife and her friends. If the friends are the type to get so sh!t faced that they are out of control... and is wife is like that too, this trip to Vegas is far from his only problem. His wife parties with these women regularly.


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## Trojan John

If you can't trust your SO any further than you can throw them, then what's the point of being in a relationship? Realistically, she could cheat on a weekend trip to Vegas, or every single day with a work colleague if she's already lacking in integrity.

Set boundaries and stop worrying lest it drive you mad.


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## MachoMcCoy

Djkool said:


> She does, on rare occasion go out with these girls, but it doesn't bother me, as she comes home at a decent time.


1 - How often is a "rare occasion".
2 - What is a "descent time" she would come home?

You want to see a "mini Vegas Bachelorette party"? Go sit in the farthest back booth you can find in the darkest corner of one of this groups little GNO meat markets. Watch the fun. A group of hot chicks dressed to the 9's at the local meat market?

If the answers to the above questions are anything close to:

1 - Every couple of weeks, and 
2 - After 1:00 AM

Your little spying trip to their party palace will be an education. And, if you don't "F" it up, will result in cell phone video that will require her to cancel the trip without further worry.

The worry THEN, however, will be what the hell went on at the rest of those monthly meat market excursions.

How in gods name does ANYBODY feel there won't be a problem with the statement "I'm heading to Vegas for a three day Bachelor/ bachelorette party with the boys/girls in a couple of months".


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## Cosmos

Whilst I can understand your concern, I'm afraid this sort of thing seems to be acceptable these days... I've read quite a few posts on TAM where the general concensus has been that it's OK for a STBH to get a 'lappy' in Vegas etc, so the same has to apply to women getting their jollies in a similar way, too.

Having said that, I come from an older generation and it wouldn't be OK for my SO to go on a trip like that, and I certainly wouldn't go on one. That sort of thing is for singles, IMO, and is not a good idea for bachelor / ette parties.


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## MachoMcCoy

I am such a considerate poster, I even supply my own replies:



MachoMcCoy said:


> You want to see a "mini Vegas Bachelorette party"? Go sit in the farthest back booth you can find in the darkest corner of one of this groups little GNO meat markets. Watch the fun. A group of hot chicks dressed to the 9's at the local meat market?


Macho, you must have missed this:



Djkool said:


> She has never given me any reason not to trust her.


I know my wife, you DON'T. She has never "drank too much and just crashed on his floor", coming home the next day. They are ALWAYS back before 3AM, RARELY after 2AM.

And although I've never asked her directly, she has implied that all these hot little skanks do when they get together is dance in man-free bubble with each other. The RARE man trying to cut in is knocked down (verbally) by all the gals at the same time.

So I'm not worried about her local trips to the meat marke...sorry, "dancing establishments". But I hear so much can go wrong in Vegas. I mean, you all saw the movie, right?

So no, I would NEVER spy on my wife. How could you even imply that?


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## MachoMcCoy

And then I reply:




Djkool said:


> She has never given me any reason not to trust her.


Party girl LOVES that attitude in her man.

Why all of the GNO threads coming back again? Are all of the gals getting ready for the spring skanking season?


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## Blossom Leigh

I think bachelor and bachelorette parties are stupid. I see no purpose in them whatsoever. What a waste of time and money. And taking one to Vegas? Uh, no.

There is enough trouble at them on a local level. Vegas *tends* to amplify. My first drinking contest was in Vegas... I won.

If your wife had an established record of decent behavior like Ele, I think things would be different, but something about this group bothers you. Trust your gut.


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## The Middleman

Djkool said:


> Thank you everybody for the responses. I'm a bit surprised and thought everyone would say to support her going, which just seems crazy to me.
> 
> I didnt say this in my original post, because I wanted to get peoples perspectives on the situation and thought maybe i was being unreasonable, but she already agreed not to go.
> 
> I felt guilty about it though. I felt like a stick in the mud... kind of like a fun ruiner.
> 
> Thank you everybody for your thoughtful answers. I don't feel so crazy now for feeling this way. I just didnt really have anybody to talk to about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't feel guilty or like a stick in the mud. Hopefully, your wife "gets it" and that was the basis of her decision. Even if it wasn't and she decided not to go because she was concerned about the "fall out" with you, it had to end this way. You would have been a wreck while she was away and wondering what went on for months, if not years after. 

Call me what you will, but these Vagas bachelor/bachelorette parties are not for married people, and people today just don't get it.


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## JJG

You are in a forum filled with a large proportion of people who have had their spouses cheat on them, that's why you are getting these responses.

I dont think there is a magic solution to this problem. She wants to go, you dont want her to go. One of you is going to end up unhappy.


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## EllisRedding

I am curious, how much of this is a gender issue? What I mean by that, as a guy I would have additional concerns about my wife going on a trip like this purely from a safety standpoint (i.e. getting something slipped in her drink, etc...). On the flipside I don't believe my wife would worry about me getting slipped a roofie, getting physically assaulted, etc... Not saying I should be free to go on whatever trip I like, personally I am not a fan of bachelor parties, just pointing out some concerns that would come to mind if I was in this situation.


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## OpenWindows

Just please keep in mind that if you're not comfortable with it, and she doesn't go, she will likely feel sad and left out because she missed a rare opportunity for a Vegas weekend with the girls.

I'm not saying that should change your mind about what you tell her... if you're not comfortable with her going, that's okay. Just be patient if she regrets not going. If I skipped an event like that to make my partner happy, I would probably be upset for a few days, maybe feeling like he took away my chance for a Vegas trip even though I'd never done anything wrong (especially once my girlfriends started telling me about all the fun I missed). Be patient and understanding if you get a little push-back and resentment afterwards, it's natural.


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## DoneWithHurting

F-uck that bull. 
No, she should not go because YOU are uncomfortable with it.
She should not go because she should know you would be uncomfortable with it.
She should have told you about it and told you she isn't going, without you having to say anything.

My wife and I just went to a party at a new potential business partners home. She came out from her dressing room in a sexy/****ty/HOT outfit all happy and proud.
I told her it was too see through for an event of this kind. She was pissed, went back to change, decided against it and we went.
She was happy. I was pissed. I stayed away from her at the party and made some great Biz connections.
Came home, had a huge fight.
If she pulls this nonsense again, she can go alone and come home to a bolted door.
However, I have had reason not to fully trust from previous behavior.
If I were in your shoes, I would have done exactly the same thing as you.


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## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> And many people do not party to the point of getting so drunk that they lose control.
> 
> And many marriages have not been ruined because people go to vegas for a party.
> 
> *The OP knows his wife and her friends.* If the friends are the type to get so sh!t faced that they are out of control... and is wife is like that too, this trip to Vegas is far from his only problem. His wife parties with these women regularly.


FWIW, this may be a big part of why he's so apprehensive about the trip.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

marduk said:


> It's not good.
> 
> But you also can't stop her. I know; I tried.
> 
> Set boundaries. Have her call you every night.
> 
> And plan a boys trip to Vegas and let her know it's coming.
> 
> That's all that really worked for me. After my boys trip, suddenly she "got it."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm interested in this story. Mind sharing? Current wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Blossom Leigh said:


> I think bachelor and bachelorette parties are stupid. I see no purpose in them whatsoever. What a waste of time and money. And taking one to Vegas? Uh, no.
> 
> There is enough trouble at them on a local level. *Vegas *tends* to amplify.* My first drinking contest was in Vegas... I won.
> 
> If your wife had an established record of decent behavior like Ele, I think things would be different, but something about this group bothers you. Trust your gut.


Yep.

"What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" has been etched into our cultural psyche.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## New_Beginnings

If she gives you no reason not to trust her, I wouldn't freak out and what does your wife look like maybe I can look out for cheating (joking). I will be in Vegas in March as well for my sisters bachorlette but why such a early bachorlette party? She's getting married in Oct?!


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## New_Beginnings

marduk said:


> It's not good.
> 
> But you also can't stop her. I know; I tried.
> 
> Set boundaries. Have her call you every night.
> 
> And plan a boys trip to Vegas and let her know it's coming.
> 
> That's all that really worked for me. After my boys trip, suddenly she "got it."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol... So should one of his friends plan to get married to make this Vegas trip?

OP. My sister is planning a weekend Fri-Sun Vegas trip and although I'm not huge into the party scene I will be present. 1. I'm a bridesmaid and her sister. 2. I don't want to be placed in the not able to do anything category and go to the traditional bridal shower only. You know the one the moms can attend because "I'm no longer fun to be around". 

Since I have kids and a husband (my first priority) I talked it over with my husband and he knows that's not my scene. I explained, I felt I needed to support my sister and he understood BUT I don't want to be gone for Fri-Sun. I am planning to fly out Saturday and come home the next day. Would your wife compromise the length of her stay and would you feel more comfortable?


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## Sun Catcher

I don't get this whole bachelor and bachelorette party thing. Am I showing my age? :nerd:

My husband would not go to one and certainly wouldn't get a lap dance! I know because I have a brother who when away from his wifey goes to get these things and my husband just says ewww. 

I would not attend one nor any GNO because my favorite pastime is being with my husband. There is no better time spent than with him. 

I think though that we are all different, if she really wants to go, then she should go. You can't force her not to go, but you can make her aware of the consequences of any poor decisions if she gets carried away and she will get carried away with her single hot girlfriends. They will want to have a giggle at her expense, girls are often just mean that way. 

I really hope your wife comes to her senses and decides she doesn't want to go. In that case you can treat her and you to your own hot weekend. If you can afford it go somewhere nice, do something special.


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## New_Beginnings

The more I read responses on this site, the more I see lack of trusting ones partner. I've read good advice but wow some of your minds are always focused on other partner just doing wrong or attempting to want to wrong their spouse.

The woman hasn't even left and Vegas isn't just a place to sin..smh if you can't trust her friends, she shouldn't be hanging with them in or out of Vegas...point blank.


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## knightRider

Definitely one for boundary setting. If people value their marriages, they would not want to test them in such ways.


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## Cosmos

New_Beginnings said:


> *The more I read responses on this site, the more I see lack of trusting ones partner. I've read good advice but wow some of your minds are always focused on other partner just doing wrong or attempting to want to wrong their spouse.*
> 
> The woman hasn't even left and Vegas isn't just a place to sin..smh if you can't trust her friends, she shouldn't be hanging with them in or out of Vegas...point blank.


I think you'll find that, more than anything, it's about establishing healthy marital boundaries.


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## MachoMcCoy

One night at the local meat markets wit a cell phone video will settle this.

Does anyone here REALLY think this group of hot little tramps are going to...

I can't even come up with a sarcastic non-trampy thing they can do. There is NOTHING FOR THESE GUYS IN VEGAS BESIDES MEN LOOKING TO GET LAID. Nothing.

Why else go to Vegas?

ALthough, if there was ANY man a woman could say "I'm doing this" to. it's one that ALSO does not understand what this group does locally when out partying.

So easy to fix. Yet NOBODY ever has ANYBODY just drop by to take a look-see.


----------



## straightshooter

The OP has already stated that this group of friends had no intention of being wall flowers and that they were a "hard partying crowd", so the idea that this was going to be a "cultural" expedition is not relavant.

How about the fact that if you ask every BH or BW if they "trusted" their spouse BEFORE the infidelity, the overwhelming response would have been "I trusted my spouse completly". If that is all you need is trust, why the hell is everyone here talking to people who have been cheated on.

We are all human and no one is immune to making a major mistake given the right conditions. OP has every right not to be comfortable with this organized "let's go shake our asses for men" excursion that is going to last for days.

JUst for the record, I think if you are a woman and your husband finds some need to go spend your family's money throwing dollar bills and more at strippers who think he is a pig except for his money, you also have the right to tell him that has to stop.

This OP is reasonable. He would not probably have posted here is this was just bringing in a male stripper for a 30 minute entertainment in the home city. 

I just can't get over this attitude out there that it is just good old girls fun to have strange men chasing you around a club all night, buying you drinks, or trying to entice you into something that can ruin your life. Yes it can happen at the grocery store., but that is stupid to compare.

If you follow sports, you will know that all coaches and managers spend hours looking for tendencies of opponents to determine the odds of a play being successful. Business managers do the same thing.

If anyone does not think the odds of his wife increase by purposely putting herself into that environment with enabling friends for three days is any reason to be concerned, I do not know how your thought process works.

Blind trust is what allowed all those of us who have been betrayed to get blindsided. And, no, my wife did not cheat in a GNO so that is not what has formed my opinion. This trip is a great fun thing for SINGLE AND DIVORCED WOMEN. If his wife needs that to be happy, her need for ego kibbles will eventually morph into something else. This kind of thing is what's cool in Cosmopolitan, but if you read the books on infidelity, most I have read rank these separate vacations, separate, hobbies that involve travel without your spouse continually, and constant GNO or BNO as right behind the workplace as the new incubators of infidelity.

Sorry for the rant, but OP I am glad your wife had decided not to go, and I hope you two have honest and open discussions about this because she should not be forming resentment. You are not telling her not to do stuff with any friends. You are telling her you are not comfortable with her joining the single life for a week end in Las Vegas.


----------



## Workathome

Some of these comments are disturbing. She is a grown woman, not a child. If you are that worried that a little alcohol and dancing will cause her to cheat, you must not be very secure in your relationship to begin with. An overbearing jealous husband would drive me away. My husband and I travel together and we each take trips alone or with friends. If I didn't trust him enough for him to be unsupervised, I wouldn't be married to him.


----------



## Workathome

GusPolinski said:


> So don't try to stop her.
> 
> By all means, be honest w/ her -- tell her that you're not cool w/ it, and that you'd prefer that she not go... but that you won't stop her. If she asks you why you're so apprehensive about it, _calmly_ tell her that you're not comfortable w/ her being in a such an environment, 2000 miles away from home and surrounded by the potential for poor decision-making that so often accompanies public intoxication and peer pressure.
> 
> If, after you've told her that, she decides to go anyway, you'll know where you stand.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This sounds like something I would say to one of my daughters not a spouse. But I guess when everything is framed with the possibility of cheating, spouses get a little crazy.


----------



## New_Beginnings

Lol, why does everything have to be stripper oriented for a bachorlette????? Smh.. These responses grow louder and louder of how your minds are warped into "saving"someone (your spouse) to not cheat. Really?

If your spouse wants to cheat, alchohl or not it will happen. With or without Vegas. Maybe I don't view Vegas as some holy sin ground because I'm not a going out kind of person. 

This is more than boundaries. Saying don't go isn't a boundary, it's an order. What about bars? Vacations to family? Are those boundary pushers too? I didn't have a bachorlette it's not important to me, but I don't think a time away should be labeled as " a time my partner will sin".


----------



## New_Beginnings

Cosmos said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The more I read responses on this site, the more I see lack of trusting ones partner. I've read good advice but wow some of your minds are always focused on other partner just doing wrong or attempting to want to wrong their spouse.*
> 
> The woman hasn't even left and Vegas isn't just a place to sin..smh if you can't trust her friends, she shouldn't be hanging with them in or out of Vegas...point blank.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you'll find that, more than anything, it's about establishing healthy marital boundaries.
Click to expand...


Mmm ive seen quite a few threads.. Most turn suspicious and come up with the worst case scenario. This thread was crazy by accusations or potential what ifs... I didn't get any sign his wife is one who doesn't put her husband first. 

She ultimately decided not to go, that's how much she saw he was uncomfortable and that's good. Trust should be a foundation. If you can't trust your spouse (whether blaming her surroundings ect) and she gives you zero reason, then it's inner Insecurities. I would be happy with her decision and work on insecurities with myself.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Workathome said:


> Some of these comments are disturbing. She is a grown woman, not a child. If you are that worried that a little alcohol and dancing will cause her to cheat, you must not be very secure in your relationship to begin with. An overbearing jealous husband would drive me away. My husband and I travel together and we each take trips alone or with friends. If I didn't trust him enough for him to be unsupervised, I wouldn't be married to him.





straightshooter said:


> Blind trust is what allowed all those of us who have been betrayed to get blindsided.


EXACTLY. WAH, I have NO IDEA where your head is at with that statement. Do you HONESTLY believe this group of girls is going to Vegas to just...

DANG!! I STILL can't come up with the "innocent" reason these gals are going to Vegas.

OP. WHEN this trip happens, as we all know it will, you may want to get together with the two boyfriends and hire a PI to tail them a little. I'm SURE there are MANY in Vegas that specialize in this type of surveilance. I don;t know if it will help YOU or not. But this two boyfriends will owe you BIG TIME.


----------



## GusPolinski

Workathome said:


> This sounds like something I would say to one of my daughters not a spouse. But I guess when everything is framed with the possibility of cheating, spouses get a little crazy.


Regardless of the recipient, sound advice is sound advice.

Where one's child is concerned, it makes sense that the _primary_ concern involved in such a trip would be his or her safety. Where one's spouse is concerned, however, it's just natural that any concern w/ respect to infidelity would be somewhat increased.


----------



## OpenWindows

MachoMcCoy said:


> EXACTLY. WAH, I have NO IDEA where your head is at with that statement. Do you HONESTLY believe this group of girls is going to Vegas to just...
> 
> DANG!! I STILL can't come up with the "innocent" reason these gals are going to Vegas.


Maybe they just want to play Oculus Rift!

Or maybe they want to drink and gamble and dance. Sex isn't the only thing that exists in Vegas.


----------



## New_Beginnings

MachoMcCoy said:


> Workathome said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of these comments are disturbing. She is a grown woman, not a child. If you are that worried that a little alcohol and dancing will cause her to cheat, you must not be very secure in your relationship to begin with. An overbearing jealous husband would drive me away. My husband and I travel together and we each take trips alone or with friends. If I didn't trust him enough for him to be unsupervised, I wouldn't be married to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> straightshooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blind trust is what allowed all those of us who have been betrayed to get blindsided.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EXACTLY. WAH, I have NO IDEA where your head is at with that statement. Do you HONESTLY believe this group of girls is going to Vegas to just...
> 
> DANG!! I STILL can't come up with the "innocent" reason these gals are going to Vegas.
> 
> OP. WHEN this trip happens, as we all know it will, you may want to get together with the two boyfriends and hire a PI to tail them a little. I'm SURE there are MANY in Vegas that specialize in this type of surveilance. I don;t know if it will help YOU or not. But this two boyfriends will owe you BIG TIME.
Click to expand...


Yes op!!!!! and look up the escorts in Vegas so your PI can have himself a great time!!!!!!! Since women of all kinds are Doing it up in Vegas! The city of sin!!!!!!! 

Dude.. You people are too much! If your marriage is that rocky to have person watched I mean d*$& might as well lock hips with her during her stay? Boundaries should also state not turn into a crazy...


----------



## MachoMcCoy

"If they will cheat at a bar with alcohol, they will cheat at the supermarket".

REALLY? Strange men and women go to the supermarket with the INTENT of getting laid? They go dressed as tramps and grind their tingly parts against each other in the aisles? Sometimes with a little kissing in produce? Maybe the occasional make-out session in "canned vegetables"? 

Come on people. Supermarkets exist for shopping for food. Clubs exist to facilitate hook-ups. And before you throw rocks at me for saying that, I want a show of hands from men who go to pumping dance clubs to dance with other men. Nobody? Everyone goes with the hope of getting laid? 

I thought so. I heard it referred to as "legitimate infidelity". "We're just going dancing and if you try to stop us you're a neanderthal pig". Then, besides for the 5% of women who evidently DO dance in a man free bubble, The flirting starts. The drinking. The partying. The dancing. With men you don't even KNOW ABOUT. We're just having an innocent good time and you are getting jealous? How weak and unappealing you seem to me now.

I'm not putting up with THAT crap. That above paragraph describes infidelity in MY book. Particularly when the tramp wife keeps all of the men secret. And that doesn't even include the innocent kisses on the dance floor. Or the "drunken mistake".

How many times does that happen at the supermarket?


----------



## New_Beginnings

MachoMcCoy said:


> "If they will cheat at a bar with alcohol, they will cheat at the supermarket".
> 
> REALLY? Strange men and women go to the supermarket with the INTENT of getting laid? They go dressed as tramps and grind their tingly parts against each other in the aisles? Sometimes with a little kissing in produce? Maybe the occasional make-out session in "canned vegetables"?
> 
> Come on people. Supermarkets exist for shopping for food. Clubs exist to facilitate hook-ups. And before you throw rocks at me for saying that, I want a show of hands from men who go to pumping dance clubs to dance with other men. Nobody? Everyone goes with the hope of getting laid?
> 
> I thought so. I heard it referred to as "legitimate infidelity". "We're just going dancing and if you try to stop us you're a neanderthal pig". Then, besides for the 5% of women who evidently DO dance in a man free bubble, The flirting starts. The drinking. The partying. The dancing. With men you don't even KNOW ABOUT. We're just having an innocent good time and you are getting jealous? How weak and unappealing you seem to me now.



And people for whatever reason decide to throw bachorlette and bachelor parties (again I personally didn't). I just don't see this as out of the norm kind of party for bachorlette/bachelor and doesn't give grounds to act like you are single. 

You can still go be apart of something and not turn into a skank... She's not going so doesn't really matter anymore but cmon give some spouses more credit. Why can't you dance with your girlfriends? Why do people assume what they will be doing and or how his wife will act. Sounds childish or thinking of some movie such as "the hangover".


----------



## MachoMcCoy

This is turning into a "clubbing wives or not" thread. I will give one last vote for NOT.

OP. You are free to "LET" her go. You have no problems with their monthly trip to the meat markets, this will be no different. Just BIGGER and LONGER (no pun intended). Who am I to say. You know her. I do not.

Good luck. It's going to be along marriage for you.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

New_Beginnings said:


> Yes op!!!!! and look up the escorts in Vegas so your PI can have himself a great time!!!!!!! Since women of all kinds are Doing it up in Vegas! The city of sin!!!!!!!
> 
> Dude.. You people are too much! If your marriage is that rocky to have person watched I mean d*$& might as well lock hips with her during her stay? Boundaries should also state not turn into a crazy...


You seem smart. Tell me this? Why Vegas?


----------



## MachoMcCoy

New_Beginnings said:


> She's not going so doesn't really matter anymore


You are the second person to say that. I just reread all of his posts. It's still GAME-ON!!!


----------



## MichelleR

If I were invited to a party like that I'd say no without even discussing it with my husband. If she's out with all single women who are enjoying getting hit on by all these men, she will either 1. Be completely innocent and faithful and also bored and jealous that everyone else gets to have all the fun or 2. Relaxed and join in on the flirting and maybe do something that's inappropriate.

If her friends were married it would be different because they'd probably keep each other in check and seek our more innocent activities to do for fun. But I wouldn't feel okay with this at all. 


In case this interests you I went to a bachelorette party for my sister in laws wedding. It's the only one I've been to. My husband also went out for a bachelors party the same night. From what I heard from my husband they ended up having a bad time whereas we got hit in like CRAZY! My sister in law had to keep an eye on me because my inhibitions were down because I drank too much. Honestly if she hadn't been there and mindful of my marriage I might have done something stupid. I know that sounds awful to admit but it's why I avoid situations like that on purpose now. 

Of course you can't forbid her, she's her own person and you're not her boss but you can make it very clear to her how inappropriate you think this is. She may respect you more for showing her that you care and feel normal healthy levels of jealousy.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I have mixed feelings. I'm not a big fan of bachelor/ette parties that include married or coupled people. My neighbors tried to organize one with strip clubs for one of the neighbors and while I didn't tell hb he couldn't go I certainly gave him the evil eye.

He didn't go, and neither did most of the hb's. 

I do think a girl's trip would be fun though and I've never gone out with the girls and done anything remotely stupid. I don't get why these parties most always inclued strippers and people acting like idiots.

If the bachelor party in my neighborhood was just men going to the bar for a few beers that would've been completely different. 

If your wife won't go if it bothers you that's a good thing, that says she cares about what you think. I'd tell her you're not crazy about the idea and leave it at that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## New_Beginnings

MachoMcCoy said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes op!!!!! and look up the escorts in Vegas so your PI can have himself a great time!!!!!!! Since women of all kinds are Doing it up in Vegas! The city of sin!!!!!!!
> 
> Dude.. You people are too much! If your marriage is that rocky to have person watched I mean d*$& might as well lock hips with her during her stay? Boundaries should also state not turn into a crazy...
> 
> 
> 
> You seem smart. Tell me this? Why Vegas?
Click to expand...

Tell me this, I have no idea?? I have only been there once by default, as we missed our connecting flight. 

I will say, whether Vegas or another location if the trust isn't there then yes there's a problem.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

MichelleR said:


> In case this interests you I went to a bachelorette party for my sister in laws wedding. It's the only one I've been to... We got hit in like CRAZY! My sister in law had to keep an eye on me because my inhibitions were down because I drank too much. Honestly if she hadn't been there and mindful of my marriage I might have done something stupid.


Just like your weekly trip to the Safeway, right?


----------



## Marduk

ConanHub said:


> I'm interested in this story. Mind sharing? Current wife?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's a long one, and in the private area I think. Have at 'er.

At the end of the day, ultimatums and control didn't work. Letting her go and mirroring her own behaviour did.


----------



## New_Beginnings

MachoMcCoy said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not going so doesn't really matter anymore
> 
> 
> 
> You are the second person to say that. I just reread all of his posts. It's still GAME-ON!!!
Click to expand...

Really? I thought she said she wouldn't go. I personally think if the two of them discuss and he's trusting on her, there shouldn't be a problem.

I personally wouldn't go on a trip if I knew my husband was upset. I had a talk with my husband about my sisters bachorlette before agreeing. She too, decided Vegas to get away (we live in Az, close commute) I told my sister I may not go, due to the children and being one who does night routines ect. My husband thinks I should be supportive of my sister and have fun (not too much OBVIOUSLY) I haven't been out in 6yrs for a girls night (it's not my scene). I also chose to only be gone for 1 night, this way my home routine doesn't feel thrown off.


----------



## New_Beginnings

MachoMcCoy said:


> MichelleR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In case this interests you I went to a bachelorette party for my sister in laws wedding. It's the only one I've been to... We got hit in like CRAZY! My sister in law had to keep an eye on me because my inhibitions were down because I drank too much. Honestly if she hadn't been there and mindful of my marriage I might have done something stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> Just like your weekly trip to the Safeway, right?
Click to expand...

Those carrots get me every time!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Um... for those of you who think "sex" is a mild issue in Vegas.... have you been lately?


There are prostitute and calling girl cards with nude photos all over the streets laying around on the pavement. Their little magazine racks that in the rest of the country hold real estate magazines, theirs hold call girl and prostitute magazines. 

Sin city = Sex city

I got hit on while at a pool tournament there with my H standing right next to me.


----------



## straightshooter

If I were invited to a party like that I'd say no without even discussing it with my husband. If she's out with all single women who are enjoying getting hit on by all these men, she will either 1. Be completely innocent and faithful and also bored and jealous that everyone else gets to have all the fun or 2. Relaxed and join in on the flirting and maybe do something that's inappropriate.

If her friends were married it would be different because they'd probably keep each other in check and seek our more innocent activities to do for fun. But I wouldn't feel okay with this at all. 


*In case this interests you I went to a bachelorette party for my sister in laws wedding. It's the only one I've been to. My husband also went out for a bachelors party the same night. From what I heard from my husband they ended up having a bad time whereas we got hit in like CRAZY! My sister in law had to keep an eye on me because my inhibitions were down because I drank too much. Honestly if she hadn't been there and mindful of my marriage I might have done something stupid. I know that sounds awful to admit but it's why I avoid situations like that on purpose now. 

Of course you can't forbid her, she's her own person and you're not her boss but you can make it very clear to her how inappropriate you think this is. She may respect you more for showing her that you care and feel normal healthy levels of jealousy.*

A perfectly honest response from a married woman with a lot of integrity who saw first hand by her own experience what some of us are talking about. 

And the most impressive thing said is her understanding that it is not a great idea to put herself in that position again.

Thank you for your honesty and real life experience.


----------



## New_Beginnings

Yes I saw photos of naked women splattered on the pavement just from our missed flight. 

Thank goodness we walked the strip during the day, I might've fell into intercourse during my walk had it been at night!


----------



## Married but Happy

It's your marriage, OP, but IMO decisions such as this must be mutual. If you trust her - so no past reasons to mistrust her - and she has always shown that she has good boundaries, then for me it would not be an issue. If I can't trust someone, I'd ask they not do something, and if something makes me uncomfortable, I'll convey that - but I won't tell them what to do, and hopefully we find a compromise that allows them to do what they want while increasing my comfort. They can do what they decide is best, and they may well be right to make the decision to go through with their plans, especially if they DO maintain boundaries and your fears are simply unfounded paranoia. If you start trying to control her decisions and actions because you either don't trust or are yourself insecure, then just divorce her now. Me, I need to see actual misbehavior, and then there will be consequences.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

New_Beginnings said:


> Yes I saw photos of naked women splattered on the pavement just from our missed flight.
> 
> Thank goodness we walked the strip during the day, I might've fell into intercourse during my walk had it been at night!


such a comedian.. just crying in laughter over here


----------



## tech-novelist

My wife would never want to do this.

But if she did, I would tell her in no uncertain terms that she would not be doing it.

There is no innocent reason for married women to go to Vegas "to party" (God, I hate that verb!).

Period.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

We have some mighty fine goal post moving going on. They are not going to Vegas for a simple party weekend, guy weekend or girls vacation. Sorry, people are removing context and applying it to your situations. No, I'm not saying every person who goes to a bachelor or bachelorette party has the intent to cheat, but normal people tend to do stupid crap during group think situations. I firmly believe, I apply it to myself, in not putting yourself in bad situations on purpose. Bachelor and Bacholerette parties are send offs, with the express purpose of doing stupid crap, BEFORE you take your vows.

Don't feel bad, it isn't you refusing an occasional GNO with her friends a party weekend or girls vacation. It is a specific event widely KNOWN to ruin marriages and lead to stupidity.


----------



## New_Beginnings

Blossom Leigh said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I saw photos of naked women splattered on the pavement just from our missed flight.
> 
> Thank goodness we walked the strip during the day, I might've fell into intercourse during my walk had it been at night!
> 
> 
> 
> such a comedian.. just crying in laughter over here
Click to expand...

Laughing is better than crying.


----------



## GusPolinski

Blossom Leigh said:


> Um... for those of you who think "sex" is a mild issue in Vegas.... have you been lately?
> 
> 
> There are prostitute and calling girl cards with nude photos all over the streets laying around on the pavement. Their little magazine racks that in the rest of the country hold real estate magazines, theirs hold call girl and prostitute magazines.
> 
> Sin city = Sex city
> 
> I got hit on while at a pool tournament there with my H standing right next to me.


Vegas is ALL about sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

GusPolinski said:


> Vegas is ALL about sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Gus... I agree.

Even I there aren't stripper girls in the bars. Some of the ones we went to at least had the silhouette dancing on big screens in every corner of the bar. It is hyper promoted there.


----------



## samyeagar

MichelleR said:


> If I were invited to a party like that I'd say no without even discussing it with my husband. If she's out with all single women who are enjoying getting hit on by all these men, she will either 1. Be completely innocent and faithful and also bored and jealous that everyone else gets to have all the fun or 2. Relaxed and join in on the flirting and maybe do something that's inappropriate.
> 
> If her friends were married it would be different because they'd probably keep each other in check and seek our more innocent activities to do for fun. But I wouldn't feel okay with this at all.
> 
> 
> In case this interests you I went to a bachelorette party for my sister in laws wedding. It's the only one I've been to. My husband also went out for a bachelors party the same night. From what I heard from my husband they ended up having a bad time whereas we got hit in like CRAZY! My sister in law had to keep an eye on me because my inhibitions were down because I drank too much. Honestly if she hadn't been there and mindful of my marriage I might have done something stupid. I know that sounds awful to admit but it's why I avoid situations like that on purpose now.
> 
> Of course you can't forbid her, she's her own person and you're not her boss but you can make it very clear to her how inappropriate you think this is. She may respect you more for showing her that you care and feel normal healthy levels of jealousy.


This reminded me a bit of something. My sister in law is married, and we had a bunch of people over to our house, and she, my wife, and several other women, some married, some not were all talking, and the conversation went talking about what they do when they all go out for their girls nights. It was kind of eye opening.

The general consensus was that they'd of course be faithful, and not cheat, but had no qualms about using their GNO tricks...hiding their left hands as much as possible...they thought it was wrong to remove their wedding rings, but had no problems witting on their left hand to hide it so they could get free drinks from guys. They saw no problems accepting the drinks, with maybe a little flirting to keep them coming. If the guys are stupid or desperate enough to think that buying a drink is going to get them anything, then who are the women to stop them? was their rationale. To me, that is no longer a girls night out. It is encouraging mixed company while their husbands are not there, and behaving in a way with other men that they would not when they are with their husbands.

In the grand scheme, what they described in and of itself, I do find a bit distasteful and disrespectful, but ultimately pretty harmless. The thing is, it IS crossing a very dangerous line, and it is not an unreasonable thought process to think about where that path leads with very little additional circumstance.


----------



## Kivlor

GusPolinski said:


> Vegas is ALL about sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can say I go for a yearly business convention, and if I were married I would be taking the wife. Even if she didn't want to go, I'd probably insist. That place is crazy town, and people in groups tend to push each other to extremes in a bit of "one upmanship". Can I control myself? Sure. But I'd not want my wife to even get the idea I'd do anything wrong there.

I'd think the concern would be warranted. And that's on a business trip to Vegas. A bachelor / bachelorette party? Yeah, that's just asking for trouble. 

You can't stop someone from cheating if that's what they want. You can mitigate risk, and only so much. To me, marriage is partly about comfort; and I don't see there being any comfort in having your spouse (H or W) run off to Vegas for a bachelor / bachelorette party. 

OP it sounds like your wife's a decent gal--she recognized the issue and even offered to not go (albeit with some prompting from you). Leave it at that, and do something to show her how much you love her for being like that.


----------



## OpenWindows

Kivlor said:


> OP it sounds like your wife's a decent gal--she recognized the issue and even offered to not go (albeit with some prompting from you). Leave it at that, and do something to show her how much you love her for being like that.


THIS.

OP, if your wife is willing to give up her good time because you're not comfortable with it, please do something nice for her. Maybe you guys can have a date night or something while her girlfriends are gone. Make sure she has fun with YOU if she's not having fun in Vegas! :smile2:


----------



## naiveonedave

samyeagar said:


> The general consensus was that they'd of course be faithful, and not cheat, but had no qualms about using their GNO tricks...hiding their left hands as much as possible...they thought it was wrong to remove their wedding rings, but had no problems witting on their left hand to hide it so they could get free drinks from guys. They saw no problems accepting the drinks, with maybe a little flirting to keep them coming. If the guys are stupid or desperate enough to think that buying a drink is going to get them anything, then who are the women to stop them? was their rationale. To me, that is no longer a girls night out. It is encouraging mixed company while their husbands are not there, and behaving in a way with other men that they would not when they are with their husbands.
> 
> In the grand scheme, what they described in and of itself, I do find a bit distasteful and disrespectful, but ultimately pretty harmless. The thing is, it IS crossing a very dangerous line, and it is not an unreasonable thought process to think about where that path leads with very little additional circumstance.


this is wrong in so many ways. Wrong to husband, wrong to the guy trying to pick her up (and yes lying to them is wrong as well, even if their intentions are not good).


----------



## lifeistooshort

marduk said:


> It's a long one, and in the private area I think. Have at 'er.
> 
> At the end of the day, ultimatums and control didn't work. Letting her go and mirroring her own behaviour did.


That's usually the case. This is why I often say that a healthy dose of empathy goes a long way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Adelais

MachoMcCoy said:


> "If they will cheat at a bar with alcohol, they will cheat at the supermarket".


Twice when I was shopping at the supermarket, men flirted with me. One went out of his way to compliment how I looked in my dress. My dress was not revealing, and went past my knees, no low neckline, and was short sleeved! It was modest, but really cute! I was glad I looked nice, but not impressed to be flirted with, as I was wearing a wedding ring. Maybe it was love at first sight? Maybe he was just giving me a compliment? Maybe he was trying to pick me up?

The other man I met at a supermarket was a real sleaze bag and I met him when he was with his wife! I had gone to the supermarket to rent a movie and forgot my credit card and only had cash. (Redbox only takes a credit card.) At Redbox we chatted about my husband's work, and he used to be in the same field. He recommended a movie to me, and let me use his credit card to rent it, while I handed him cash. I gave him my phone number (in front of his wife) to assure him that I would return the movie on time and not run up his credit card, so he could track me down if I didn't turn it in. He phoned me three times and left messages asking me if I liked the movie. I had returned the movie to the Redbox already, and didn't call him back. (I now know I was naive, and understand why his wife was giving me dirty looks. She knew her husband.)


----------



## WonkyNinja

MachoMcCoy said:


> One night at the local meat markets wit a cell phone video will settle this.
> 
> Does anyone here REALLY think this group of hot little tramps are going to...


Wow, a group of women wanting to go out together are automatically tramps. 
Do you have the same disdain for men on a guys night out or is your view purely misogynistic?



> I can't even come up with a sarcastic non-trampy thing they can do. There is NOTHING FOR THESE GUYS IN VEGAS BESIDES MEN LOOKING TO GET LAID. Nothing.
> 
> Why else go to Vegas?


Then you have very little imagination there are shows, restaurants, gambling, just having fun together and making fun of the drunks thinking that the next craps dice roll will be the big one .......... 



> ALthough, if there was ANY man a woman could say "I'm doing this" to. it's one that ALSO does not understand what this group does locally when out partying.


Are we talking about human beings or Bonobos here?


----------



## samyeagar

OliviaG said:


> I don't know what it is about the supermarket, but that's where I get hit on the most!


Me too, and it drives my wife nuts when women do it right in front of her.


----------



## OpenWindows

OliviaG said:


> I don't know what it is about the supermarket, but that's where I get hit on the most!


Me too! I guess guys love a woman with a balanced diet! :rofl:


----------



## lifeistooshort

I get hit on at races.....unbelievable since I'm at my nastiest. Does that mean I can't race? 

I've had men flirt at work too, I guess that means I can't have a job. 

Maybe I shouldn't leave the house because men might notice me. .... sounds a bit like Saudi Arabia.

See how stupid that is?

Bachelor/ette parties are questionable though. I just hope the guys objecting have consistent standards and would pass on the opportunity themselves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EllisRedding

OliviaG said:


> I don't know what it is about the supermarket, but that's where I get hit on the most!


I cant even walk through the frozen food aisle anymore ...


----------



## New_Beginnings

OliviaG said:


> I don't know what it is about the supermarket, but that's where I get hit on the most!


Right... Apparently if a man asks how your day is and if you respond nicely "good and you"? it opens a window of trying to woo me. That down the canned beans aisle ladies. This is what I get for not wearing my glasses and blinded by options, not finding the Kidney beans in a proper amount of time.

Women can be approached anywhere and doesn't have to be in a place of sin. I got hit on at a parked light, while pregnant and honestly thought something was wrong with the work van (I was driving). When I rolled down my window and man asked for my number, up went my window quick. Really?


----------



## lifeistooshort

OliviaG said:


> It's always fun to watch women fawning over men in the supermarket. If you're a guy, all you have to do is act like you're completely lost and you will be taken under the wing of any female in your immediate vicinity. Just act like a deer in the headlights while searching for the paper towels...


Like when us women look lost in the auto parts store.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

lifeistooshort said:


> I get hit on at races.....unbelievable since I'm at my nastiest. Does that mean I can't race?
> 
> I've had men flirt at work too, I guess that means I can't have a job.
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't leave the house because men might notice me. .... sounds a bit like Saudi Arabia.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
> 
> *Bachelor/ette parties are questionable though. I just hope the guys objecting have consistent standards and would pass on the opportunity themselves.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can only speak for myself of course, but yeah, I would pass on the bachelor parties in an environment like that. No hesitation, without remorse, and I wouldn't place the blame on my wife either...you know...the whole "I can't go because my wife won't let me." I'd own the decision all by myself.


----------



## New_Beginnings

lifeistooshort said:


> OliviaG said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's always fun to watch women fawning over men in the supermarket. If you're a guy, all you have to do is act like you're completely lost and you will be taken under the wing of any female in your immediate vicinity. Just act like a deer in the headlights while searching for the paper towels...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when us women look lost in the auto parts store.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Lol. YouTube has been my friend for car parts and putting things back together.


----------



## lifeistooshort

New_Beginnings said:


> Lol. YouTube has been my friend for car parts and putting things back together.


But sometimes it's easier to look lost in the auto parts store and let the guys there put the part on for you, depending on what it is of course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

OliviaG said:


> It's always fun to watch women fawning over men in the supermarket. If you're a guy, *all you have to do is act like you're completely lost* and you will be taken under the wing of any female in your immediate vicinity. Just act like a deer in the headlights while searching for the paper towels...


Works even better when you show that you know what you're doing in the kitchen


----------



## New_Beginnings

samyeagar said:


> lifeistooshort said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get hit on at races.....unbelievable since I'm at my nastiest. Does that mean I can't race?
> 
> I've had men flirt at work too, I guess that means I can't have a job.
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't leave the house because men might notice me. .... sounds a bit like Saudi Arabia.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
> 
> *Bachelor/ette parties are questionable though. I just hope the guys objecting have consistent standards and would pass on the opportunity themselves.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> I can only speak for myself of course, but yeah, I would pass on the bachelor parties in an environment like that. No hesitation, without remorse, and I wouldn't place the blame on my wife either...you know...the whole "I can't go because my wife won't let me." I'd own the decision all by myself.
Click to expand...


Funny thing is I'm going to turn down my sisters bachorlette (in Vegas) but honestly it's because I don't want to buy a plane ticket/expensive room. Im glad my husband didn't guilt me to not go. We discussed it and he's still saying he trusts me to go. I honestly don't want to because I'm thinking about our budget and other areas our money is going to. I rather save the money.


----------



## New_Beginnings

lifeistooshort said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. YouTube has been my friend for car parts and putting things back together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But sometimes it's easier to look lost in the auto parts store and let the guys there put the part on for you, depending on what it is of course.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


True. I'm just thinking of changing the light bulb (in the front headlight) and or detailing the foggy look out of them. I was so proud. Minimal I'm sure but for me highly proud LOL!


----------



## Wolf1974

I think maybe my past has shaped me one this one. I wouldn't have a problem with my Gf going. Cheaters are going to find a way to cheat. Those comparing this to a supermarket or whatever is ridiculous. 

When I was married I went to Vegas 3 times for a bachelor party and never Cheated. My X wife went twice and didn't cheat. But she did cheat on me with a guy she knew at work. So what are we saying that opposite sex co workers shouldn't happen either? I put accountability where it should be squarely with the individual..... and if they will cheat they will find a way.


----------



## OpenWindows

samyeagar said:


> Works even better when you show that you know what you're doing in the kitchen


My BF signed up for Blue Apron (meal kit delivery service). We cook the meals together. It's fun, the food is great, and we can spend time together. And I think it's hot that he cooks!!!


----------



## New_Beginnings

Wolf1974 said:


> I think maybe my past has shaped me one this one. I wouldn't have a problem with my Gf going. Cheaters are going to find a way to cheat. Those comparing this to a supermarket or whatever is ridiculous.
> 
> When I was married I went to Vegas 3 times for a bachelor party and never Cheated. My X wife went twice and didn't cheat. But she did cheat on me with a guy she knew at work. So what are we saying that opposite sex co workers shouldn't happen either? I put accountability where it should be squarely with the individual..... and if they will cheat they will find a way.



Exactly... Right with you 100%%


----------



## lucy999

OP, your wife sounds like a good egg. She put you before the party. Make sure you tell and show her how much this means to you and your marriage.

I'm with @blossom Leigh. Bachelor and bachelorette parties are stupid and I think they can get really gross. Not to mention uber expensive.

1. It's a bachelorette party. Come on! These are parties that celebrate your last days of singledom. That's ridiculous. I'd be offended if my soon to be H was 'celebrating' the last of his single life. I think it's a silly rite of passage for both sexes.

2. The girls are hot. 

3. The hot girls like to party.

4. IT'S VEGAS.

Of course there are lots of other things to do in Vegas. But look at the above list. Breeding ground for temptation and very bad decisions. Nope nope and nope.


----------



## GusPolinski

OliviaG said:


> It's always fun to watch women fawning over men in the supermarket. If you're a guy, all you have to do is act like you're completely lost and you will be taken under the wing of any female in your immediate vicinity. Just act like a deer in the headlights while searching for the paper towels...


This might explain some of the looks that I get in the baking aisle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

I think there are varying degrees of inappropriate up to and including the almost universally accepted line of actual intercourse. Those lines, and reactions to them being crossed are up to the individual couples.


----------



## bandit.45

This got me to thinking of that male poster who had a thread here a while back. He and his wife had been married thirty plus years and she goes and organizes a bachelorette party wherein she uses their joint account to hire a male stripper. This lady I think was late 40's early 50s. Anyway, this lady was the perfect wife and mother, pillar of her community, church goer, etc... 

She ends up blowing the stripper in front of the cheering crowd of ladies. If I recall I think the bride did too. 

To make things worse, she never gave her husband BJs, compounding his humiliation. 

What was his name? Anyone have the link to that thread?


----------



## EleGirl

MachoMcCoy said:


> EXACTLY. WAH, I have NO IDEA where your head is at with that statement. Do you HONESTLY believe this group of girls is going to Vegas to just...
> 
> *DANG!! I STILL can't come up with the "innocent" reason these gals are going to Vegas.*


Let's see, there are good shows in Vegas that I would love to see.
There is Circus Circus that I hear is fun.
Stratosphere Thrill Rides: Big Shot
SkyJump Las Vegas
exotic animal sanctuary
Many good restaurants
And gambling if a person finds that fun
and a thousand other really great things to do in Vegas




MachoMcCoy said:


> OP. WHEN this trip happens, as we all know it will, you may want to get together with the two boyfriends and hire a PI to tail them a little. I'm SURE there are MANY in Vegas that specialize in this type of surveilance. I don;t know if it will help YOU or not. But this two boyfriends will owe you BIG TIME.


----------



## samyeagar

bandit.45 said:


> This got me to thinking of that male poster who had a thread here a while back. He and his wife had been married thirty plus years and she goes and organizes a bachelorette party wherein she uses their joint account to hire a male stripper. This lady I think was late 40's early 50s. Anyway, this lady was the perfect wife and mother, pillar of her community, church goer, etc...
> 
> She ends up blowing the stripper in front of the cheering crowd of ladies. If I recall I think the bride did too.
> 
> To make things worse, she never gave her husband BJs, compounding his humiliation.
> 
> What was his name? Anyone have the link to that thread?


Group think, group IQ, and herd mentality are a real thing. I remember that thread, but don't remember who it was.

A real life experience though...a guy I work with...he was getting married, really big wedding, all the trappings, and his fiance was having three bachelorette parties. One on the east coast, one in the mid west, and one in Vegas so that she could celebrate with all her friends, and include the ones who couldn't make it to the midwest wedding.

Well, at the first bachelorette party, they had a stripper, the booze was flowing, and long story short, she ended up topless with the stripper lathering her boobs with whipped cream using his d1ck. It didn't go any further than that, but why the guy I work with found out a week later through Facebook, I was astounded that none of the women, as in not one, including the brides married mother, really thought it was that bad. They admitted it may have been a bit out of hand, but it was just good fun, and not that big of a deal. Predictably, he was called controlling, jealous, all of that when he called off the wedding pending some changes. She kicked and screamed about having to cancel the other parties as a condition of the wedding being back on.


----------



## EleGirl

MachoMcCoy said:


> "If they will cheat at a bar with alcohol, they will cheat at the supermarket".
> 
> REALLY? Strange men and women go to the supermarket with the INTENT of getting laid? They go dressed as tramps and grind their tingly parts against each other in the aisles? Sometimes with a little kissing in produce? Maybe the occasional make-out session in "canned vegetables"?
> 
> Come on people. Supermarkets exist for shopping for food. Clubs exist to facilitate hook-ups. And before you throw rocks at me for saying that, I want a show of hands from men who go to pumping dance clubs to dance with other men. Nobody? Everyone goes with the hope of getting laid?
> 
> I thought so. I heard it referred to as "legitimate infidelity". "We're just going dancing and if you try to stop us you're a neanderthal pig". Then, besides for the 5% of women who evidently DO dance in a man free bubble, The flirting starts. The drinking. The partying. The dancing. With men you don't even KNOW ABOUT. We're just having an innocent good time and you are getting jealous? How weak and unappealing you seem to me now.
> 
> I'm not putting up with THAT crap. That above paragraph describes infidelity in MY book. Particularly when the tramp wife keeps all of the men secret. And that doesn't even include the innocent kisses on the dance floor. Or the "drunken mistake".
> 
> How many times does that happen at the supermarket?


I guess you are out of touch. The supermarket is a great place to pick up on people. I know guys who do it. Another great place is the book store. I used to go every Friday to hang out at the book store with a female friend of mine. We'd get books and sit in their coffee shop reading them to decide which ones to buy. We got hit on every time we went.

.


----------



## TRy

EleGirl said:


> And many marriages have not been ruined because people go to vegas for a party.


 And most times in Russian Roulette the gun does not go off since there is only a 1 in 6 chance that it will, but that does not make playing Russian Roulette a good idea. Similarly, going to Vegas with mostly single attractive girls that would be open to meeting and bring other men (along with their friends) into your party is also not a good idea. You should never put at risk things that are important to you when you do not have to.


----------



## TRy

EleGirl said:


> I guess you are out of touch. The supermarket is a great place to pick up on people. I know guys who do it. Another great place is the book store. I used to go every Friday to hang out at the book store with a female friend of mine. We'd get books and sit in their coffee shop reading them to decide which ones to buy. We got hit on every time we went.


 Was your friend single and did she invite these men hitting on the two of you to sit down and join you? Were you or you friend drinking heavily knowing that you had a hotel room upstairs?


----------



## EleGirl

New_Beginnings said:


> And people for whatever reason decide to throw bachorlette and bachelor parties (again I personally didn't). I just don't see this as out of the norm kind of party for bachorlette/bachelor and doesn't give grounds to act like you are single.
> 
> You can still go be apart of something and not turn into a skank... She's not going so doesn't really matter anymore but cmon give some spouses more credit. Why can't you dance with your girlfriends? Why do people assume what they will be doing and or how his wife will act. Sounds childish or thinking of some movie such as "the hangover".


One of my sisters had a big bachelorette party. We went to a club that also had a restaurant. There were probably 20 of us attending. We had dinner, drinks, some of us dance (not dirty dancing). We gave her presents. We all talked and laughed a lot.

Most bachelorette parties are not the debauchery that a lot of people seem to think of.


----------



## OpenWindows

EleGirl said:


> I guess you are out of touch. The supermarket is a great place to pick up on people. I know guys who do it. Another great place is the book store. I used to go every Friday to hang out at the book store with a female friend of mine. We'd get books and sit in their coffee shop reading them to decide which ones to buy. We got hit on every time we went.


Book stores are great for that!

Before I really started dating my BF, I joked with him that a guy would have a better shot with me if he bought my books instead of my drinks.
That weekend, he took me to the bookstore and did exactly that... and it worked!


----------



## convert

EleGirl said:


> I guess you are out of touch. The supermarket is a great place to pick up on people. I know guys who do it. Another great place is the book store. I used to go every Friday to hang out at the book store with a female friend of mine. *We'd get books and sit in their coffee shop reading them to decide which ones to buy. We got hit on every time we went.*
> 
> .


was the books 50 shades of grey >


----------



## EleGirl

MachoMcCoy said:


> You seem smart. Tell me this? Why Vegas?


Because Vegas can be fun. There are tons of things to do in Vegas that can only be found in Vegas.


----------



## lifeistooshort

EleGirl said:


> One of my sisters had a big bachelorette party. We went to a club that also had a restaurant. There were probably 20 of us attending. We had dinner, drinks, some of us dance (not dirty dancing). We gave her presents. We all talked and laughed a lot.
> 
> Most bachelorette parties are not the debauchery that a lot of people seem to think of.


Mine involved going to a Mexican restaurant with about 12 women, drinking and eating, and being loud and obnoxious. Most of the women were married and it was a great time. 

My friends coordinated with hb and he was going to invite his daughter, which would've been fine, except that she is heavily sheltered, big southern baptist, and was a 22 year old virgin at the time. She would've been uncomfortable with us and it was not getting toned down for her.

I don't get why strippers are required.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OpenWindows

It's easy to get worried about things like bachelorette parties, because we only hear the horror stories. The tame parties make for boring stories that don't get shared as much.

You know, kind of like how TAM makes it look like everyone cheats, when it's really just that people with good relationships don't spend as much time on advice forums, so we don't hear from them here...


----------



## Yeswecan

samyeagar said:


> Group think, group IQ, and herd mentality are a real thing. I remember that thread, but don't remember who it was.
> 
> A real life experience though...a guy I work with...he was getting married, really big wedding, all the trappings, and his fiance was having three bachelorette parties. One on the east coast, one in the mid west, and one in Vegas so that she could celebrate with all her friends, and include the ones who couldn't make it to the midwest wedding.
> 
> Well, at the first bachelorette party, they had a stripper, the booze was flowing, and long story short, she ended up topless with the stripper lathering her boobs with whipped cream using his d1ck. It didn't go any further than that, but why the guy I work with found out a week later through Facebook, I was astounded that none of the women, as in not one, including the brides married mother, really thought it was that bad. They admitted it may have been a bit out of hand, but it was just good fun, and not that big of a deal. Predictably, he was called controlling, jealous, all of that when he called off the wedding pending some changes. She kicked and screamed about having to cancel the other parties as a condition of the wedding being back on.


It would be interesting how "the soon to be" would react if she heard her "soon to be" was lathered up and allowed to stroke his willy between the grand Tetons. Your coworker had his boundaries and stood by them.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Let's make this fun.

She IS going. She said she WASN'T going the way a child says it in a huff when daddy says no. So she IS going. Of that I have no doubt. He has no reason not to trust her, ergo...

Can we set up a pay-pal account? PI in Vegas shouldn't cost much. Demand must be high so you know supply followed. A few hundred bucks for a night? Everyone kick in 10 bucks for the PI. I've GOT to think we can find 30 people interested enough. 

Then we get side wagers going. I'm betting $1000 on "She cheats". 

But cheating needs to be defined. I think a lot of the "Clubbing wife or not" discussions come from varied definitions of "infidelity". Are all of you thinking married gals partying like this is no problem because she won't have her ankles behind her head while Adolpho drives his point home? I'd say your probably right. A gal willing to give it up that easily for a man in a bar will cheat some day.

But do any of you folks calling me a neanderthal feel there can be infidelity WITHOUT swapping fluids? In my book, if my wife tells me she's going to a club to dance in a man free bubble, but instead flirts with men. Parties with them. Accepts drinks from them. Dances with them then goes to breakfast with them to watch the sunrise and DOESN'T TELL ME ABOUT IT is cheating.

Make that $2,000, if we can agree on a definition like that. Put your money where your mouth is. 

Who's in?


----------



## Roselyn

Djkool said:


> Well, i see that type of bachelorette party to be a novelty. I dont think my wife would oogle over a stripper. I think she would actually find it gross. I see where you are coming from. Its not easy, let her go and i dont care. Try and stop her and im a jealous A hole. I do appreciate a womans perspective on this though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Woman here and ongoing 36 years married (first marriage for the both of us). We spent our honeymoon in Las Vegas, NV. I enjoyed the shops and not the shows. The shows had topless women and it was not advertised as such. I have not seen a bottomless men show as of yet.

The place can be wild as those going in today are for party scenes. Your wife is married and going to the bachelorette party bothers you. Tell her. She should not be going at all.


----------



## samyeagar

Yeswecan said:


> It would be interesting how "the soon to be" would react if she heard her "soon to be" was lathered up and allowed to stroke his willy between the grand Tetons. Your coworker had his boundaries and stood by them.


Unfortunately, appealing to empathy by asking the one who did it how they would feel if the shoe was on the other foot is often met with how they would be fine with to keep the narrative on their side. That they wouldn't be controlling, jealous. Further down the line, they may admit that it would bother them.

For sure my coworker had good strong boundaries, and kept them in spite of the shaming onslaught aimed at him. The main reason he still married her was the fact that this was something that was very out of character for her, and as well as the rest of us knew her, it really did seem almost unbelievable it was so out of character...yet given the right circumstances, it still happened. Unfortunately, most people don't know what the necessary ingredients are for this to happen to them until it is too late.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

TRy said:


> And most times in Russian Roulette the gun does not go off since there is only a 1 in 6 chance that it will, but that does not make playing Russian Roulette a good idea. Similarly, going to Vegas with mostly single attractive girls that would be open to meeting and bring other men (along with their friends) into your party is also not a good idea. You should never put at risk things that are important to you when you do not have to.


Why can't any of you "clubbing with the gals can be innocent fun" crew admit to this one little reality?

Just one "MAYBE it CAN happen, and sometimes does, but..."

Then go into your stupid little reasons why this husband shuold have no reason to worry about his little wifey going to Vegas with a pack of party wh0res for a party weekend.

Please. Just admit it once.


----------



## EllisRedding

TAM Vegas trip anyone, what could go wrong???? >


----------



## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> Vegas is ALL about sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's funny... I've been to Vegas a few times, never had sex there.


I'm not a prude. I just do not travel to Vegas to pick up on strange.


----------



## TRy

lifeistooshort said:


> Mine involved going to a Mexican restaurant with about 12 women, drinking and eating, and being loud and obnoxious. Most of the women were married and it was a great time.


 Many people that are expressing concerns with the Vegas trip, would be much more comfortable with 12 mostly married women at a local Mexican restaurant that will go home to sleep that night. You do see how that is greatly different from 3 days, with mostly single women, 2,000 miles away, in Vegas right?


----------



## MachoMcCoy

EleGirl said:


> That's funny... I've been to Vegas a few times, never had sex there.
> 
> 
> I'm not a prude. I just do not travel to Vegas to pick up on strange.


Problem solved. If Elle never did it, no worries!

:scratchhead:


----------



## New_Beginnings

bandit.45 said:


> This got me to thinking of that male poster who had a thread here a while back. He and his wife had been married thirty plus years and she goes and organizes a bachelorette party wherein she uses their joint account to hire a male stripper. This lady I think was late 40's early 50s. Anyway, this lady was the perfect wife and mother, pillar of her community, church goer, etc...
> 
> She ends up blowing the stripper in front of the cheering crowd of ladies. If I recall I think the bride did too.
> 
> To make things worse, she never gave her husband BJs, compounding his humiliation.
> 
> What was his name? Anyone have the link to that thread?



Wow... Smh that's awful. Sounds like the stepford wife was an act. Smh

If I wanted to ***** it up, I wouldn't go to Vegas to be a ****. Then again I can't hold secrets or guilt well, I'd tell on myself. I'm not even tempted, when I think of all this sex I envision please sanitize and pop a squat to pee.


----------



## OpenWindows

MachoMcCoy said:


> Then we get side wagers going. I'm betting $1000 on "She cheats".
> 
> ...
> 
> But do any of you folks calling me a neanderthal feel there can be infidelity WITHOUT swapping fluids?
> 
> Who's in?


I would much rather bet money that nobody on this thread called you a neanderthal.


----------



## New_Beginnings

EleGirl said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people for whatever reason decide to throw bachorlette and bachelor parties (again I personally didn't). I just don't see this as out of the norm kind of party for bachorlette/bachelor and doesn't give grounds to act like you are single.
> 
> You can still go be apart of something and not turn into a skank... She's not going so doesn't really matter anymore but cmon give some spouses more credit. Why can't you dance with your girlfriends? Why do people assume what they will be doing and or how his wife will act. Sounds childish or thinking of some movie such as "the hangover".
> 
> 
> 
> One of my sisters had a big bachelorette party. We went to a club that also had a restaurant. There were probably 20 of us attending. We had dinner, drinks, some of us dance (not dirty dancing). We gave her presents. We all talked and laughed a lot.
> 
> Most bachelorette parties are not the debauchery that a lot of people seem to think of.
Click to expand...


I agree. 

I wouldn't feel comfortable if bullcrap went on but I'm an adult, I would hold reliability/accountability for myself not their actions but mine. I think some of this nonsense is crazy talk and really don't believe the saying "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas". Nice slogan for those banning Vegas for married couples but cmon.


----------



## samyeagar

New_Beginnings said:


> Wow... Smh that's awful. Sounds like the stepford wife was an act. Smh
> 
> *If I wanted to ***** it up, I wouldn't go to Vegas to be a *****. Then again I can't hold secrets or guilt well, I'd tell on myself. I'm not even tempted, when I think of all this sex I envision please sanitize and pop a squat to pee.


Human psychology is a very interesting thing, especially the subconscious. While it is true that most people can go to Vegas and have a great, appropriate time, there is an undercurrent in reputation that is unavoidable, and is summed up in the ever popular "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."...a very powerful suggestion.

In Vegas, it is socially accepted, and almost expected by reputation that people will be a bit more edgy, loosen their boundaries a bit more than usual. People often, even if subconsciously tend to lean, even if it's just a bit, towards norms and expectations.

Another powerful, and broader than Vegas, very suggestive and catchy mindset..."Last fling before the ring." The implications of that phrase...


----------



## lifeistooshort

TRy said:


> Many people that are expressing concerns with the Vegas trip, would be much more comfortable with 12 mostly married women at a local Mexican restaurant that will go home to sleep that night. You do see how that is greatly different from 3 days, with mostly single women, 2,000 miles away, in Vegas right?


It wasn't a comparison, I just thought we were sharing stories

See my previous comments to understand that I don't think these parties at a good idea for married people. 

I don't even think they're a good idea for those about to get married and I don't understand why strippers must be involved. 

If you've lived so little that you must have strippers then you aren't ready to be married; go and sow your oats before you get married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

MachoMcCoy said:


> Problem solved. If Elle never did it, no worries!
> 
> :scratchhead:


Well if machomccoy's marriage is fvcked up everyone else's must be too.

See how that works?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

lifeistooshort said:


> It wasn't a comparison, I just thought we were sharing stories
> 
> See my previous comments to understand that I don't think these parties at a good idea for married people.


 Sorry, I did not read your previous comments. On the bright side, it did give me the opportunity to agree with you that not all such parties are bad.


----------



## Kivlor

EleGirl said:


> Let's see, there are good shows in Vegas that I would love to see.
> There is Circus Circus that I hear is fun.
> Stratosphere Thrill Rides: Big Shot
> SkyJump Las Vegas
> exotic animal sanctuary
> Many good restaurants
> And gambling if a person finds that fun
> and a thousand other really great things to do in Vegas


They could be going there for the shows, but honestly, EleGirl, do you believe that is why they're having a bachelorette party in Vegas? *8 or 9 women, all unmarried except the OP's wife? *

It could be, but I don't think that's what I'd place my odds on. I think the OP's completely justified in feeling uncomfortable with this situation. I also think it is telling that his wife understands why he has apprehensions.

It is inappropriate for a married woman to go for several days of partying in Vegas with a bunch of single girls, for a partying event that is intended to be one of those girls' send-offs; "one last night of being single, before you tie the knot!" This is a recipe for disaster.


----------



## MattMatt

Blackpool is the British version of Las Vegas. But probably with less style.

A former work colleague went on a Bachelorette trip to Blackpool.

After she came back she broke down in tears saying: "If my husband found out what I did in Blackpool, he'd leave me! He'd never forgive me!"

They split up so I suppose that was was right about him not being able to forgive her.

She also quit her job, went "dark" on Facebook and can't face old friends on the street.


----------



## WonkyNinja

MachoMcCoy said:


> Why can't any of you "clubbing with the gals can be innocent fun" crew admit to this one little reality?
> 
> Just one "MAYBE it CAN happen, and sometimes does, but..."
> 
> Then go into your stupid little reasons why this husband shuold have no reason to worry about his little wifey going to Vegas with a pack of party wh0res for a party weekend.
> 
> Please. Just admit it once.


So you're down from "there is nothing else to do in Vegas except get laid by strangers" to "well some people have had sex in Vegas so others might as well".

Planes can crash and sometimes do, but most husbands will no stop their wife from flying. The fact that something can and does happen doesn't mean that it will. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## MachoMcCoy

lifeistooshort said:


> Well if machomccoy's marriage is fvcked up everyone else's must be too.
> 
> See how that works?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I see EXACTLY how that works.

A majority of marriages ARE fvched up. 

And a majority of 3 day Vegas bachelorette parties involving a gaggle of single hot little party girls who don't gamble WILL involve a lot of time with men they just met.

Good analogy. Thanks.


----------



## EllisRedding

WonkyNinja said:


> Planes can crash and sometimes do, but most husbands will no stop their wife from flying.


Some may actually encourage it


----------



## MachoMcCoy

WonkyNinja said:


> Planes can crash and sometimes do, but most husbands will no stop their wife from flying. The fact that something can and does happen doesn't mean that it will.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


I don't exactly know what these words mean. I mean, I THINK I do, but that must mean one of us are confused with the odds of my wife dying in a plane crash vs. her swapping spit with a strange man on a vegas party girl weekend.

How is it POSSIBLE that someone could have that mindset in this day and...

Ugh. I just got trolled. Touche, my man. 

Touche.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

OpenWindows said:


> I would much rather bet money that nobody on this thread called you a neanderthal.


Not in so many words...


----------



## ABHale

I have read to many post by the one that went to Vegas and cheated. sob sob sob and not knowing to confess or not. She might be faithful at a one night thing like you said, but being tempted for three days is asking for trouble. Plain a trip to the Bahamas at the same time and see if she is ok with it.


----------



## GusPolinski

OliviaG said:


> Imagine, if you will, what's going on in the baking aisles of the supermarkets in VEGAS!


Uhhh...

I'm gonna do my best to refrain from cracking any jokes containing the word "yeast".

It's gonna be tough, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OpenWindows

OliviaG said:


> Imagine, if you will, what's going on in the baking aisles of the supermarkets in VEGAS!


Isn't that where they keep the coconut oil? :surprise:


ETA: I just realized that might have been an unfortunate choice of emoji, but I'm okay with that!


----------



## EleGirl

Roselyn said:


> Woman here and ongoing 36 years married (first marriage for the both of us). We spent our honeymoon in Las Vegas, NV. I enjoyed the shops and not the shows.* The shows had topless women and it was not advertised as such*. I have not seen a bottomless men show as of yet.
> 
> The place can be wild as those going in today are for party scenes. Your wife is married and going to the bachelorette party bothers you. Tell her. She should not be going at all.



There are plenty of very good shows in Las Vegas that do not have topless women.


----------



## EleGirl

MachoMcCoy said:


> Why can't any of you "clubbing with the gals can be innocent fun" crew admit to this one little reality?
> 
> Just one "MAYBE it CAN happen, and sometimes does, but..."
> 
> Then go into your stupid little reasons why this husband shuold have no reason to worry about his little wifey going to Vegas with a pack of party *wh0res *for a party weekend.
> 
> Please. Just admit it once.


You are out of line calling the friends of the OP's wife wh0res. In other posts you have been calling them skanks. It's against forum rules to call people names.. and that extends to people the OP is talking about. You do not know these women.

One more of these name calling outburst of yours and you will be enjoying a ban.

(Speaking as a moderator)


----------



## EleGirl

MachoMcCoy said:


> Problem solved. If Elle never did it, no worries!
> 
> :scratchhead:


I guess I need to spell out my point... There really are not that many women who go to Vegas and get as wild and out of control as so many of you here seem to think. The way many on this thread are talking, it sounds like women have no control over their own actions if they get out of site of their husbands.

It's pretty sad.

And it makes me wonder what people who think like that do when they are out of their spouse's site.


----------



## ConanHub

marduk said:


> It's a long one, and in the private area I think. Have at 'er.
> 
> At the end of the day, ultimatums and control didn't work. Letting her go and mirroring her own behaviour did.


I'll check it out. People are strange.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Kivlor said:


> They could be going there for the shows, but honestly, EleGirl, do you believe that is why they're having a bachelorette party in Vegas? *8 or 9 women, all unmarried except the OP's wife? *
> 
> It could be, but I don't think that's what I'd place my odds on. I think the OP's completely justified in feeling uncomfortable with this situation. I also think it is telling that his wife understands why he has apprehensions.
> 
> It is inappropriate for a married woman to go for several days of partying in Vegas with a bunch of single girls, for a partying event that is intended to be one of those girls' send-offs; "one last night of being single, before you tie the knot!" This is a recipe for disaster.


Well, I've gone on trips with single women when married, and yes to places were a person can chose to get into all kinds of trouble. But we did the more interesting things. Surely me, my sisters and my friends are not the only women in the USA who don't act like some people here seem to think all women act.


----------



## lifeistooshort

EleGirl said:


> Well, I've gone on trips with single women when married, and yes to places were a person can chose to get into all kinds of trouble. But we did the more interesting things. Surely me, my sisters and my friends are not the only women in the USA who don't act like some people here seem to think all women act.


I've sat back and watched single women (and men) get drunk and act stupid and all I got was cheap entertainment.

Because some married women are quite capable of watching drunk singles act stupid without joining in; then we have great stories for our husbands.


----------



## ABHale

EleGirl said:


> I guess I need to spell out my point... There really are not that many women who go to Vegas and get as wild and out of control as so many of you here seem to think. The way many on this thread are talking, it sounds like women have no control over their own actions if they get out of site of their husbands.
> 
> It's pretty sad.
> 
> And it makes me wonder what people who think like that do when they are out of their spouse's site.


Then why go to Vegas as it has that rep now. I don't think as it will happen, but it might. By the way, I spent roughly 2 yrs away from my wife during 6 yrs of enlistment. Never worried once about my wife cheating. But, she never put herself in a position to give me any cause to think she might have.


----------



## ABHale

EleGirl said:


> Well, I've gone on trips with single women when married, and yes to places were a person can chose to get into all kinds of trouble. But we did the more interesting things. Surely me, my sisters and my friends are not the only women in the USA who don't act like some people here seem to think all women act.


Ya might be....


----------



## EleGirl

ABHale said:


> Then why go to Vegas as it has that rep now. I don't think as it will happen, but it might. By the way, I spent roughly 2 yrs away from my wife during 6 yrs of enlistment. Never worried once about my wife cheating. But, she never put herself in a position to give me any cause to think she might have.


Las Vegas also has a reputation of being a destination that has some very good things... good show, wonderful restaurants, and on and on. It's a blast to spend a few days there doing things other than getting fall down drunk and being out of control. 

A person can get fall down drunk and have sex with strangers in any town in the USA. No need to go to Las Vegas for that.


----------



## EleGirl

ABHale said:


> Ya might be....


Ya might be what?


----------



## bandit.45

Vegas is like any other town... if you want to find trouble you will find it there. 

My recommendation to the OP is to tell his wife how he feels, but at the end of the day he cannot forbid her to go. Like others have said, he needs to set his boundaries and then stick to them if he finds out she has crossed them.


----------



## EllisRedding

In a situation like this (whether you are the spouse being invited on the trip or the spouse on the other end) you just need to lay everything out and be as honest as possible. I don't think it is something you should just say yes or no to right away before considering everything. In my mind some of the concerns are as follows (not necessarily deal breakers, but concerns nonetheless):

- Bachelor / Bachelorette Parties - obviously not every party ends up with someone making a mistake, but they have a reputation for a reason. 

- Las Vegas - obviously not everyone goes there to get laid, but LV has a reputation for a reason (Sin city, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas)

- Combining the two above "could" be a volatile mix

- There are people who may have been faithful or never strayed, but could very well be the type of person who won't handle being in the type of situation above well (I don't know how many people who did make a mistake during a party went in to it thinking they would make a mistake?)

- Purely from a guy's POV, there is safety in numbers in terms of women traveling/partying together. Does that possibly change if your wife goes with a bunch of single women? What happens if they go out partying, the single women get distracted doing their single thing, and your wife loses that safety in numbers? The reality is, there are guys out there who are looking to prey on women, so ideally I want my wife to minimize the chance of being put in that situation. This does not mean anything will happen, but still a valid concern.

- Are boundaries set on what is/isn't acceptable? As mentioned here, what if the woman has no intention to cheat but uses this opportunity to test things out and feel good about herself by strategically hiding her wedding ring, flirting with guys, etc... is that acceptable? This also could attract unwanted attention (see safety point above). This is not just specific for the wife, same would go if roles are reversed, are boundaries set if the H is the one going on the trip?

Once again, not saying the answer should automatically be no or yes, but everything should be laid out from the start before making a decision. 

Obviously just by looking at my out of this world hairstyle in my avatar, it is clear that Vegas could not handle me, so best I stay away :grin2:


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> Bachelor/ette parties are questionable though. I just hope the guys objecting have consistent standards and would pass on the opportunity themselves.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haven't been to one since I've been married. Heck, last one I went to was right before my wife and I became serious 20+ years ago.


----------



## Adelais

Djkool said:


> i see that type of bachelorette party to be a novelty. I dont think my wife would oogle over a stripper. I think she would actually find it gross. ]


If a woman who didn't normally look at naked men was forced to look at a young naked man with a great body dance for her, she might be very embarrassed and uncomfortable, but even so she couldn't help but be titillated by the sight. Some situations are best avoiding.


----------



## samyeagar

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> If a woman who didn't normally look at naked men was forced to look at a young naked man with a great body dance for her, she might be very embarrassed and uncomfortable, *but even so she couldn't help but be titillated by the sight*. Some situations are best avoiding.


And with the egging on that often accompanies, maybe a little touch too because conformity is a very quick and easy way to ease discomfort and embarrassment.


----------



## TRy

Vegas 3 day trip + hot single women looking to have fun + drinking = Lots of interest from Men. Single women have every right to attract and party with these men and many will. Here is the rub. What is OK for single women to do with other men in Vegas is often not OK for married women to do. Since it would not be fair for the lone married woman to ask that a group of single woman having fun to not invite an interested group of good looking men to join their party, it would be appropriate for the lone married woman to tell her friends that they would have more fun on this trip without her.


----------



## bandit.45

If your wife is set on cheating on you, she can do that anytime, anywhere... if that is what she wants to do.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I see lots of references to hot women going to Vegas. Is it more acceptable if an unattractive married woman goes to Vegas, gets hammered, and acts crazy?

Just wondering.


----------



## EleGirl

lifeistooshort said:


> I see lots of references to hot women going to Vegas. Is it more acceptable if an unattractive married woman goes to Vegas, gets hammered, and acts crazy?
> 
> Just wondering.


Hot women are just more fun to think of while people imagine wild scenarios.>


----------



## TAMAT

I was in Vegas a few years ago, on business, and there was a woman who sat next to me on the shuttle to the hotel from the airport who gave me very strong signs I could have picked her up. I kept the conversation I had with her safe, but I was still shocked.

There were about 5 woman on the gaming floor who were prospects as well. Clearly the level of effort to pick up a ONS in Vegas is way lower than elsewhere if only because of the number of strangers there. 

Tamat


----------



## lifeistooshort

TAMAT said:


> I was in Vegas a few years ago, on business, and there was a woman who sat next to me on the shuttle to the hotel from the airport who gave me very strong signs I could have picked her up. I kept the conversation I had with her safe, but I was still shocked.
> 
> There were about 5 woman on the gaming floor who were prospects as well. Clearly the level of effort to pick up a ONS in Vegas is way lower than elsewhere if only because of the number of strangers there.
> 
> Tamat


If you're trashy Vegas will definitely bring it out. For those who aren't trashy, like you, it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> I see lots of references to hot women going to Vegas. Is it more acceptable if an unattractive married woman goes to Vegas, gets hammered, and acts crazy?
> 
> Just wondering.


hahaha! Yup!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

EleGirl said:


> Las Vegas also has a reputation of being a destination that has some very good things... good show, wonderful restaurants, and on and on. It's a blast to spend a few days there doing things other than getting fall down drunk and being out of control.
> 
> A person can get fall down drunk and have sex with strangers in any town in the USA. No need to go to Las Vegas for that.


It is also the world's top centre for trade shows. 

Don't think my boss will be taking us there, somehow! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gouge_away

Chances are they will get into one club, it will be full of black guys and they will be the only women there...

That's a Vegas club...

So, I don't see what the big deal is. What could go wrong?

"Giggity Giggity!"


----------



## MattMatt

lifeistooshort said:


> I see lots of references to hot women going to Vegas. Is it more acceptable if an unattractive married woman goes to Vegas, gets hammered, and acts crazy?
> 
> Just wondering.


There is no such thing as an unattractive married woman!

They are all beautiful to their husbands! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## New_Beginnings

gouge_away said:


> Chances are they will get into one club, it will be full of black guys and they will be the only women there...
> 
> That's a Vegas club...
> 
> So, I don't see what the big deal is. What could go wrong?
> 
> "Giggity Giggity!"



What does race have anything to do with Vegas? Who cares what a club looks like, if you can't keep your privates in your pants and things out your mouth then don't blame Vegas.. Or who's in a club..


----------



## Kivlor

@EleGirl

What was the stated purpose of the trips you allude to? Context matters a lot. So do circumstances. 

The circumstances we know:

OPs W wants to go to Vegas for several days to partake in her friend's bachelorette party. W is the only married girl in a group of 8. 3 more have a SO. 

Now, let's add context. 

Bachelor / bachelorette parties have a strong reputation for being about the spouse-to-be's last night of freedom before settling down. Strippers and copious quantities of alcohol are mainstays and often the participants try to pressure each other into more and more outrageous behavior. (Not all are like this, but this is a common theme, yes?)

Vegas is "The City of Sin" where anything goes and "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas". Can you find wholesome fun there? Yes, but this is the City's reputation for a reason. (I love Vegas btw)

The women W is going out with like to go out to clubs / bars for GNOs. They are all unmarried. 

Now, please be honest EleGirl, does this sound like a recipe for wholesome fun? Are you really going to imply that those of us who would be concerned are unjustified? Is it fair to construe my argument as against the virtue of all women, rather than an interpretation of the info OP provided?

What is your advice to OP?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## New_Beginnings

It's not just "a friend" it's the wife's cousin. She's included with singles because she's apart of this "friend's" family. She grew up with her and they're close. Again, circumstances when involving family doesn't always mean a family member is trying to be single. 

If 3days seems too long, why not shorten the trip? To be persuaded to not go is showing lack of trust on his wife not being capable of making wise or better judgement. It's one thing to discuss why or what makes it uncomfortable. It's another to lead your wife to believe she will make bad decisions and that's why she shouldn't go.


----------



## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> You are out of line calling the friends of the OP's wife wh0res. In other posts you have been calling them skanks. *It's against forum rules to call people names.. and that extends to people the OP is talking about.* You do not know these women.
> 
> One more of these name calling outburst of yours and you will be enjoying a ban.
> 
> (Speaking as a moderator)


Seriously...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gouge_away

GusPolinski said:


> Seriously...?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gus, this is Vegas, where calling someone a "*****" is like calling someone a parking lot attendant anywhere else in the world.

How would you feel if I called your wife's friends parking lot attendants? Not good...

"Giggity Giggity!"


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Djkool said:


> I wouldn't be a huge fan of planning a trip just to get revenge or to make myself feel better. I think that would only damage things further. However, my good friend did invite me on an all guys Vegas trip a few years ago and I declined as I thought it would be stressful to my wife, and I would feel bad spending money that way.
> 
> I could stop her if I wanted too. If I told her it was a "no go" for me, then she wouldn't do it.
> 
> I just hate to be the "ruiner of fun".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The moment I read this I see what is happening, the first post was OK, but in combination with this one I say you are too Beta, 'you do not want to make things worse' and she may or may not have a ONS in Vegas, but you are throwing a dice on the failure of your marriage c.q. you let her do that.

Just my feeling.


----------



## gouge_away

Just say "no, your a married woman now, and married women don't club in Vegas unless they are skanks." Then go make yourself a sandwich and enjoy some football.

"Giggity Giggity!"


----------



## soccermom2three

I would be more concerned about your wife being served a drugged drink. I know 3 people personally that were roofied (sp?) in Las Vegas. 3 different people on 3 different occasions. One friend says that she's pretty sure it was the bartender that spiked her drink because she ordered directly at the bar.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Djkool said:


> All of the girls going are very attractive and are the type that really like to party.


How dare you use slang, he said "VERY ATTRACTIVE" girls not "hot women." Reference it correctly so, there are no more misunderstandings.

LOL.


----------



## TRy

EleGirl said:


> You are out of line calling the friends of the OP's wife wh0res. In other posts you have been calling them skanks. It's against forum rules to call people names.. and that extends to people the OP is talking about. You do not know these women.
> 
> One more of these name calling outburst of yours and you will be enjoying a ban.
> "?
> (Speaking as a moderator)


 Does the rule against name calling really extend "to people the OP is talking about"? So if an OP's wife works with a friend that openly encourages her to cheat, it is against the rules to call that coworker a skank? I do not believe in name calling when I post, but I have seen such terms used on this site before and was not aware that it was an offense that could get you banned.


----------



## moto

"What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" Bull$hit on this one, my soon to be wife(at the time) brought home an STD! thank god I didn't sleep with when she got home!


----------



## DoneWithHurting

OP - Just say NO.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

EleGirl said:


> There really are not that many women who go to Vegas and get as wild and out of control as so many of you here seem to think.


Do you have research on that?


----------



## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> Seriously...?


Yes, seriously. 

What is the point of calling women filthy names anyway? What does it accomplish?


----------



## Djkool

gouge_away said:


> Chances are they will get into one club, it will be full of black guys and they will be the only women there...
> 
> That's a Vegas club...
> 
> So, I don't see what the big deal is. What could go wrong?
> 
> "Giggity Giggity!"


Hahahaha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## person123

Let me put it delicately. You would insane to let her go. If you've read the infidelity forums, you'd know that some of the prime factors that lead to unintended affairs are:

- women on trips
- women hanging out with single women
- women at resorts like Las Vegas

You would be basically asking your wife to sleep with someone. The only way to make it more likely she would cheat would be to invite your best friend to move into your house for a while or suggest that she find a male personal trainer at the gym. Jeez.

Or to come from a different perspective, go look at pickup artist forums. The best pickings are women who are traveling in groups with single women.


----------



## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> Yes, seriously.
> 
> What is the point of calling women filthy names anyway? What does it accomplish?


I don't disagree w/ that. Hell, if nothing else, it certainly isn't going to endear the guy to any of the ladies here.

Still, I've never seen the "no name-calling" rule applied so broadly.

In another thread a few days ago, I referred to another poster's husband as a "d**chebag".

Don't recall seeing much pushback there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Djkool

See_Listen_Love said:


> The moment I read this I see what is happening, the first post was OK, but in combination with this one I say you are too Beta, 'you do not want to make things worse' and she may or may not have a ONS in Vegas, but you are throwing a dice on the failure of your marriage c.q. you let her do that.
> 
> Just my feeling.


I think to take a trip in retaliation would be passive aggressive and "beta".

After telling her how uncomfortable I was about the trip, and if she were to say "to bad, im going anyway", I would know that I wasn't didily squat to her and would have ended the relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Kivlor said:


> Now, please be honest EleGirl, does this sound like a recipe for wholesome fun? Are you really going to imply that those of us who would be concerned are unjustified? Is it fair to construe my argument as against the virtue of all women, rather than an interpretation of the info OP provided?
> 
> What is your advice to OP?



We do not know the OP's wife, her cousin and their friends. The OP does. He said that there has not been a problem with the women going on GNO in the past. They sound like a not too wild group.

This makes me think that the issue is him being jealous.

He has already expressed his concerns to her. He needs to deal with his own insecurities. His wife is an adult and will make up her own mind what she will do. She is not here asking for our input.

What else is there to tell him? To make a huge deal about this and forbid her? To divorce her if she goes? 

What I've been addressing is what I think are completely out of control assumptions about what the women will do as soon as the OP is not monitoring his wife's every move. The assumptions that all women turn into slvts and wh0res in Vegas... to the point of posters actually calling the OP's wife, her cousin and their friends those words.


----------



## EleGirl

TRy said:


> Does the rule against name calling really extend "to people the OP is talking about"? So if an OP's wife works with a friend that openly encourages her to cheat, it is against the rules to call that coworker a skank? I do not believe in name calling when I post, but I have seen such terms used on this site before and was not aware that it was an offense that could get you banned.


Other moderators have warned posters and banned them for doing what was done in the post that I gave a warning to. 

I agree that there are times when leeway is given in the scenario you gave. But I have seen people banned for using really gross terms to refer to an OP's WW. I've seen this happen going back long before I became a moderator. 

There is no acceptable reason for calling the OP's wife, her cousin and friends those types of names.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
I agree.
I really like Las Vegas and I don't drink, and don't make use of any sort of sex workers. Las Vegas has fantastic shows (Cirque) with no nudity, great food, lots of fantastic sites, etc. 






EleGirl said:


> Well, I've gone on trips with single women when married, and yes to places were a person can chose to get into all kinds of trouble. But we did the more interesting things. Surely me, my sisters and my friends are not the only women in the USA who don't act like some people here seem to think all women act.


----------



## Djkool

intheory said:


> Yes, Las Vegas/Southern Nevada has all kinds of great sites and attractions that don't involve drinking, grind dancing, clubbing and partying.
> 
> But read the original post of the thread; and it's evident that that is what this group of gals is looking forward to.
> 
> No mention of water-skiing at Lake Mead, or driving out to Area 51, that I could find.


Intheory I think you are spot on. I'm not speculating when I say the group of them will get fall down, puking drunk. They will be dressed to get attention, and I'm sure they would take advantage of any free drinks that might come there way if you know what I'm saying. They are going for a wild weekend of partying and wouldn't deny that.

I do not however, consider any of them to be *****s as many have said. I don't see the group to be any different than your average mid 20s group of girls.

I'm speculating now, but I can almost garauntee that when they come back, there will be some kind of drama about something that happened that shouldn't have.

I'm just trying to paint a better picture of what the group atmosphere will be like.

Maybe as one poster said, I'm a little jealous. I was a bit surprised by my wifes enthusiasm at the announcement of this trip. It made me wonder if she secretly longed for the single life.

If she wasn't so thrilled about it, I actually don't think I would have been alarmed.

Like I said before, a good friend asked me to go on an all guys Vegas trip a few years ago. As the words came out of his mouth, I already knew my answer was no. I felt like I had all I need with my wife and my daughter, and simply wasn't interested in a trip like that. I chuckled as I told my my wife.

I think thats what bothered me the most. She WANTED to go. She felt like she needed it, and gave it up with reluctance. I got the feeling she wasn't as satisfied as I was.

In the end, my gut instinct told me it wasn't a good idea, and I'm not going to lie to her and tell her I'm ok with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdawg2015

Djkool said:


> Intheory I think you are spot on. I'm not speculating when I say the group of them will get fall down, puking drunk. They will be dressed to get attention, and I'm sure they would take advantage of any free drinks that might come there way if you know what I'm saying. They are going for a wild weekend of partying and wouldn't deny that.
> 
> I do not however, consider any of them to be *****s as many have said. I don't see the group to be any different than your average mid 20s group of girls.
> 
> I'm speculating now, but I can almost garauntee that when they come back, there will be some kind of drama about something that happened that shouldn't have.
> 
> I'm just trying to paint a better picture of what the group atmosphere will be like.
> 
> Maybe as one poster said, I'm a little jealous. I was a bit surprised by my wifes enthusiasm at the announcement of this trip. It made me wonder if she secretly longed for the single life.
> 
> If she wasn't so thrilled about it, I actually don't think I would have been alarmed.
> 
> Like I said before, a good friend asked me to go on an all guys Vegas trip a few years ago. As the words came out of his mouth, I already knew my answer was no. I felt like I had all I need with my wife and my daughter, and simply wasn't interested in a trip like that. I chuckled as I told my my wife.
> 
> I think thats what bothered me the most. She WANTED to go. She felt like she needed it, and gave it up with reluctance. I got the feeling she wasn't as satisfied as I was.
> 
> In the end, my gut instinct told me it wasn't a good idea, and I'm not going to lie to her and tell her I'm ok with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OP, you are not the first nor the last guy to go through this. These kinds of parties always lead to testing trust. 

You have a good boundary, you are not a hypocrite and would go to Vegas yet not want her to go.

If you notice in the thread those that say you are not trusting and why me married etc? Basically they are shaming you for a natural feeling. Don't EVER let someone from pushing a boundary.

I've been in Vegas several times for conference, hell I live in Bangkok Thailand which is sin city on steroids. I've seen it all, both men and women who are otherwise solid end up making terrible decisions under the muse of being away from home, drinks, and then it happens. 

You should thank your wife for not putting you in the no win situation. This would be a GREAT time for you two to discuss boundaries such as OSF, texting, etc.


----------



## EllisRedding

intheory said:


> No mention of water-skiing at Lake Mead, or driving out to Area 51, that I could find.


Seriously @intheory, did you ever think for a second that maybe, just maybe, they are going to Vegas for the All You Can Eat buffets ...

I still remember this story a buddy of mine told me a while back, about how his friend took the whole family to Vegas and Wayne Newton, yes Wayne Newton, tried to get all up in his wife ... I didn't believe him but he had a picture to prove it ... seducing a woman with a bowl of pasta, how low can you go ... Fortunately the H was able to get everyone together and when they thought all was lost, got lucky winning a large jackpot at Keno ...


----------



## Cosmos

It's funny really... Discussions like this wouldn't have existed back in the day when men had their traditional stag parties and women had the girls over for tea and cake... Had anyone complained (the women that is), they would probably have been told to keep their cute little noses out of things that didn't concern them, or to get over themselves. Can't have felt that good...

Just saying...


----------



## The Middleman

Djkool said:


> After telling her how uncomfortable I was about the trip, and if she were to say "to bad, im going anyway", I would know that I wasn't didily squat to her and would have ended the relationship.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is how I would have felt if she went on the trip anyway. I could say with a high degree of confidence, I would not have been home when she returned. Either that or, I would have "coincidentally" just so happened to be in Las Vagas at the same time, "coincidentally" staying at the same hotel, changing the tone of the entire trip. Either way, it would have meant the marriage was over.

The underlying message of what you said is that when a person gets married, you just can't always do what you want, your partner's feelings and the fact that you have children, need to be taken into account. 



Djkool said:


> I think thats what bothered me the most. She WANTED to go. She felt like she needed it, and *gave it up with reluctance. I got the feeling she wasn't as satisfied as I was.*
> 
> In the end, my gut instinct told me it wasn't a good idea, and I'm not going to lie to her and tell her I'm ok with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm curious of what the fall out has been over this. Has the subject come up since? Has there been any reaction from the cousin or other girlfriends?


----------



## OpenWindows

This thread is starting to make me wonder if I'm past my prime...

I've always thought I'm a good-looking woman, but when I go out with my friends, guys aren't swarming me, grinding me on the dance floor, and buying me drinks. It's more like me laughing at silly college-age people doing that stuff. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm having a lot of trouble relating to the GNO experiences and behaviors people are describing here.

Maybe hot young women get hit on in the clubs, and 30-year-old moms get hit on in the supermarket! I wonder if that means it's safe for me to go to Vegas? :wink2:


----------



## Cosmos

OpenWindows said:


> This thread is starting to make me wonder if I'm past my prime...
> 
> I've always thought I'm a good-looking woman, but when I go out with my friends*, guys aren't swarming me, grinding me on the dance floor, and buying me drinks. It's more like me laughing at silly college-age people doing that stuff. *Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm having a lot of trouble relating to the GNO experiences and behaviors people are describing here.
> 
> Maybe hot young women get hit on in the clubs, and 30-year-old moms get hit on in the supermarket! I wonder if that means it's safe for me to go to Vegas? :wink2:


Even as a 'hot' young thing all those years back, I could freeze over-enthusiastic guys like that in their tracks. My boundaries were clear and few were brave enough to push them - unless I wanted them to :wink2:


----------



## OpenWindows

Cosmos said:


> Even as a 'hot' young thing all those years back, I could freeze over-enthusiastic guys like that in their tracks. My boundaries were clear and few were brave enough to push them - unless I wanted them to :wink2:


Haha, I know what you mean. Even when I was younger and much cuter, the situation wasn't out of control. If I didn't want the attention, I shut it down, and the guy found someone else to hit on! Guys in bars and clubs don't spend a lot of time on a woman who's not interested, there's always easier game to be found.

ETA: But maybe I can't relate to most of this thread in general, because the guys who say they would leave a woman for going to Vegas puzzle me too. If a guy told me he would leave me over going, whether I did anything bad there or not, I'd probably tell him to go ahead and pack his stuff now, he doesn't need to wait for my decision!


----------



## EllisRedding

OpenWindows said:


> Haha, I know what you mean. Even when I was younger and much cuter, the situation wasn't out of control. If I didn't want the attention, I shut it down, and the guy found someone else to hit on! *Guys in bars and clubs don't spend a lot of time on a woman who's not interested, there's always easier game to be found.*


Like a married woman whose single friends are distracted :grin2:


----------



## OpenWindows

EllisRedding said:


> Like a married woman whose single friends are distracted :grin2:


I was assuming that a trustworthy married woman would turn these guys down, and therefore not be easy. Perhaps that was my mistake...

Is the problem that a woman can't be trusted to behave once she's unsupervised, or that the men around her can't be trusted to respect that? Wouldn't a woman who lets guys pick her up in clubs let them pick her up in other places as well?


----------



## EllisRedding

OpenWindows said:


> I was assuming that a trustworthy married woman would turn these guys down, and therefore not be easy. Perhaps that was my mistake...
> 
> Is the problem that a woman can't be trusted to behave once she's unsupervised, or that the men around her can't be trusted to respect that? Wouldn't a woman who lets guys pick her up in clubs let them pick her up in other places as well?


My response was meant as a joke :wink2:


----------



## OpenWindows

EllisRedding said:


> My response was meant as a joke :wink2:


Fair enough, sorry. I was expanding on my thoughts, that wasn't exactly directed at you.



I don't get the attitude on this thread towards a woman's self-control and decision making. If a woman is in danger of falling on a d*ck whenever she goes out drinking, her GNO is not the biggest problem in her marriage!


----------



## EllisRedding

OpenWindows said:


> Fair enough, sorry. I was expanding on my thoughts, that wasn't exactly directed at you.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the attitude on this thread towards a woman's self-control and decision making. If a woman is in danger of falling on a d*ck whenever she goes out drinking, her GNO is not the biggest problem in her marriage!


I think it is a balance. Trusting the spouse but also understanding the reputation that bachelor/bachelorette parties and Vegas come with. As I have mentioned as well, the safety concern (@soccermom2three gave a great example).


----------



## lifeistooshort

There's a big actuarial seminar in Vegas next year. We're not going because we thought it would look bad for the entire actuarial department to go to Vegas.

Plus it's kind of a long trip from where we are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kivlor

@EleGirl

My first post responding to you was regarding your list of innocuous things they could be doing. Do you think that list is what they intend to do, given the information? I think the OP was clear to his reason for concern in his first post:


> My wife isn't really the club / party type though. She has never given me any reason not to trust her. She does, on rare occasion go out with these girls, but it doesn't bother me, as she comes home at a decent time


This implied that the friends are A) the clubbing type of girls and B) clubbing is their intent for the trip and C) there will be no necessity to come home at a decent time. (Coincidentally, the OP has now updated the information we have, and confirmed what the character of these "friends" is, and their intent for the weekend)

I outlined the context and the circumstances as we knew them (with a mistake, it is the OP's W's cousin, not friend, who is having the bachelorette) and asked if you genuinely thought these girls were going for the purposes you've suggested they _could_. 

One particular poster has said the things you have a problem with. I am not that poster. I've not defended calling these girls names, nor have I participated in it. Twice, when responding to me you have mentioned these "out of control assumptions" about women. You are attacking someone else's argument, not mine. Find in this thread where I said anything disparaging about all women and kindly post it back. 

Actually, here's something I did say:


> OP it sounds like your wife's a decent gal--she recognized the issue and even offered to not go (albeit with some prompting from you). Leave it at that, and do something to show her how much you love her for being like that.


Truly, I not only disparaged her character, but that of all women everywhere. 

Be genuine enough to engage my points, rather than engaging points I've never made.


----------



## EllisRedding

lifeistooshort said:


> There's a big actuarial seminar in Vegas next year. We're not going because we thought it would look bad for the entire actuarial department to go to Vegas.
> 
> Plus it's kind of a long trip from where we are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We have our big industry conference in Vegas next month. I am hoping I can skip it. I don't drink often, I don't gamble (except when ordering Chinese food ) and the conference itself is a snoozer. I am sure my wife would like to have me home as well (not for concerns on how I would act, but liking me at home to help out with the kids and of course she feels a lot safer at night when I am home).


----------



## Kivlor

OpenWindows said:


> I don't get the attitude on this thread towards a woman's self-control and decision making. If a woman is in danger of falling on a d*ck whenever she goes out drinking, her GNO is not the biggest problem in her marriage!


I can only speak for myself, but my "attitude" is consistently applied to both sexes for this situation. A "guy's trip" for a bachelor's party in Vegas should be a no-go for a married man, especially if it is with a bunch of single guys intent on partying.

To pretend people don't increase the odds of making mistakes when they get fall down drunk while at a party with the express intent of debauchery; well that seems foolish to me.

I agree, it is not the GNO that's the biggest problem in their marriage. It's his W's attitude that this is acceptable behavior, and her enthusiasm to engage in it. OP should be concerned.


----------



## Chaparral

JJG said:


> You are in a forum filled with a large proportion of people who have had their spouses cheat on them, that's why you are getting these responses.
> 
> I dont think there is a magic solution to this problem. She wants to go, you dont want her to go. One of you is going to end up unhappy.


We are in a country where over thirty five percent of the married folks have cheated on their spouses. 80% of the betrayed spouse don't know they have been betrayed. 70% of people polled admit they would have an affair if they knew they would not be caught.

What better place to get away with banging a stranger than Lost Wages?

Read anywhere on this site that thought their spouse would be the last person to cheat. In my considerably long experience of running around before marriage, the biggest thing I learned was that no woman, including newlyweds, could be trusted on girls nights out. And that doesn't mean I ever messed around married women.

If my significant other or wife wanted to go party in Vegas without me I would ask her where she planned on living when she got back.


----------



## samyeagar

OpenWindows said:


> Fair enough, sorry. I was expanding on my thoughts, that wasn't exactly directed at you.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the attitude on this thread towards a woman's self-control and decision making. If a woman is in danger of falling on a d*ck whenever she goes out drinking, her GNO is not the biggest problem in her marriage!


It doesn't apply only to women, and it's not because of any one specific variable. It is a confluence of factors to all seem to come together and create a perfect storm in places like Vegas that can cause otherwise perfectly solid people to do things they may not otherwise do.

Sort of a when in Rome mindset that people naturally gravitate to...a couple of examples...The first is completely innocent...Blarney Castle...almost everyone kisses the Blarney Stone when they are there. Even people who are otherwise near germophobes, and would never in a million years kiss some random rock that millions of other people have put their lips on. The second, a bit more edgy, and that is Mardi Gras. Tons of women show their boobs for beads. Otherwise straight laced women who would never ever do that in any other environment or circumstance, who would be mortified if anyone found out, who previously swore they wouldn't do it there...get a little tipsy, let their guard down, feed off the energy around them....then...boobs.

I suspect that married people who end up getting into trouble in places like Vegas had every intention of just having a good time, with no intention of going down those lines, and probably counted too heavily on the fact that they were married thinking that gave them some sort of impervious armor, when what they should have been doing is building their resolve even tougher, which is the opposite to the very core of what Vegas is...do things you wouldn't normally do anywhere else.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Let it go Kivlor. This thread has swung into a disingenuous defense of Vegas discussion with a hint of gender issues looming. 

Yes, there are awesome things to do in Vegas. I've seen the Cirque, went to see the Shaolin Monks, saw some god awful movies, walked the strip and took my kids to a Pigskin Football tournament. Oh wait, the OP wasn''t talking about family time visit, friend's taking a vacation or a woman in her sixties telling people about how she did fun things in Vegas that had nothing to do with sex. We are talking about an OP which mentions very pretty single women, who act like single people would, going to Vegas for a bachlorette party including a married friend and soon to be married woman. 

It's funny how some have an issue with a spouse having a problem with this scenario, Yes, even if it is with a twinge of jealousy. Maybe I'm weird, but I thought marriage was a partnership and sometimes someone needs to take the lead. I'd hope my wife would say "I trust you, but this situation makes me feel uncomfortable" regardless of gender or any other issue. It is actually sad that marriage has become adversarial instead of a partnership, where you can voice reservations instead of being scared you are going to offend your spouse. It's okay to have these discussions as long as they are accusation free. IMO.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I get why you're upset that she was reluctant to pass but I don't think it's reasonable. You want her to get that it's not appropriate, but she doesn't see it like you. And she doesn't have to, she passed on the trip because she knew you wouldn't like it, so that shows consideration for you. Why is that not enough? 

I'm sure my hb would've liked the strip club for the bachelor party our neighbors tried to organize but in the end he didn't go. Is it reasonable for me to be po'd that he wanted to go? 

What if you gave up a beer drinking night at the bar with your buddies solely because it bothered your wife, even though you really wanted to go, and then she was upset because you wanted to go? 

We all do things we're not crazy about because it makes our spouses happy. That's marriage. 

Have you told her that you know she wanted to go and you appreciate her respecting your feelings on the matter? Because right now she has the double whammy of not going to the party she wanted to go to and a hb who's sulking because she wanted to go.

Make sure you take her out and show her a good time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OpenWindows

OP, would this be your wife's first trip to Vegas? Is it possible that she's upset because she really wants to go there?

If so, maybe YOU could take her to Vegas sometime, and show her a more wholesome good time.


----------



## lifeistooshort

OpenWindows said:


> OP, would this be your wife's first trip to Vegas? Is it possible that she's upset because she really wants to go there?
> 
> If so, maybe YOU could take her to Vegas sometime, and show her a more wholesome good time.


Speaking only for myself of course but I don't want a trip with my hb to be completely wholesome 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EllisRedding

lifeistooshort said:


> Speaking only for myself of course but I don't want a trip with my hb to be completely wholesome
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you thinking more along the lines of this???


----------



## OpenWindows

lifeistooshort said:


> Speaking only for myself of course but I don't want a trip with my hb to be completely wholesome
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you're doing it with your spouse, it counts as wholesome. Even if it's really dirty! :wink2:


----------



## lifeistooshort

EllisRedding said:


> Are you thinking more along the lines of this???


Hb would look good in the hat and sunglasses, and he does like leather. 

But he can barely handle me so third parties are out of the question. 

Besides, we don't share 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## convert

gouge_away said:


> Just say "no, your a married woman now, and married women don't club in Vegas unless they are skanks." *Then go make yourself a sandwich and enjoy some football.*
> 
> "Giggity Giggity!"



I thought about why you wouldn't have her make the sandwich for you:grin2:
but I remember a good rule ----Is never piss off someone that is handling you food>


----------



## tech-novelist

GusPolinski said:


> I don't disagree w/ that. Hell, if nothing else, it certainly isn't going to endear the guy to any of the ladies here.
> 
> Still, I've never seen the "no name-calling" rule applied so broadly.
> 
> In another thread a few days ago, I referred to another poster's husband as a "d**chebag".
> 
> Don't recall seeing much pushback there.


Fortunately there is no sexism here!


----------



## tech-novelist

lifeistooshort said:


> There's a big actuarial seminar in Vegas next year. We're not going because we thought it would look bad for the entire actuarial department to go to Vegas.
> 
> Plus it's kind of a long trip from where we are.


It sounds like the organizers didn't do the proper risk assessment before selecting that venue.


----------



## GusPolinski

technovelist said:


> Fortunately there is no sexism here!


Ha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Proud of you OP for standing in your truth.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

OpenWindows said:


> This thread is starting to make me wonder if I'm past my prime...
> 
> I've always thought I'm a good-looking woman, but when I go out with my friends, guys aren't swarming me, grinding me on the dance floor, and buying me drinks. It's more like me laughing at silly college-age people doing that stuff. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm having a lot of trouble relating to the GNO experiences and behaviors people are describing here.
> 
> Maybe hot young women get hit on in the clubs, and 30-year-old moms get hit on in the supermarket! I wonder if that means it's safe for me to go to Vegas? :wink2:


It's not necessarily age related. I get hit on frequently and I'm 46 and I know Elegirl does too and she is older than me.


----------



## EllisRedding

Blossom Leigh said:


> It's not necessarily age related. I get hit on frequently and I'm 46 and I know Elegirl does too and she is older than me.


Where, at BINGO matches :laugh:


----------



## MachoMcCoy

My apologies to all in my:

A - Grouping an entire population (girls who like to go out) into one autonomous entity, and...
B - Using derogatory terms to label them.

It was wrong, uncalled for, inappropriate,...regardless of your interpretation of the rules. Not to mention rude. Thanks for not banning me Ele. And I will accept that part of this debate as an official warning to me to clean it up.

Back to the OP.

Sit down with your wife. Tell her of your concerns with this trip. Apologize for being insecure. "But we all agree, most men would be uncomfortable with this. I don't know these other ladies really well. So do me one favor: lets sit down at the computer and take a look at their social media pages. Facebook, etc. I'm drawing a blank on the other ones they use. Instagram? Snapchat? Tinder? I just want to get a feel for who these girls are..."

I forgot how well you know them, I believe not well. But you may be able to find a good bit just searching on your own if you do know them.

We all agree there are party girls and there are the Ele's of the world. And most of us agree it is hard to determine which is which. Pictures of them "partying with a lot of other men" at the clubs in Jacksonville or where ever will be a MILD indication of what Vegas party weekend will be like. 

And I ALSO understand that just because she is going, it doesn't mean that she is going to party as hard as these girls will be. I'm just not sure what SHE'LL be doing while these girls are painting the town red. I guess those nighttime tours of Hoover Dam and Area 51.

And she IS planning on going. Have no doubt about that.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

EllisRedding said:


> Where, at BINGO matches :laugh:


Lol! Hey you know... Bingo matches can be HOT!


----------



## OpenWindows

Blossom Leigh said:


> Lol! Hey you know... Bingo matches can be HOT!


I get all tingly whenever they call "O 69"!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

LOL


----------



## bandit.45

For me it comes down to the decision I have made for myself that I'm not going to live in fear. I'm not going to live my life worrying about whether my partner of the moment is cheating on me. If she wants to cheat on me she is going to, whether in Vegas or in a broom closet at her work. Nothing I can do, say or threaten will stop her from doing it if it is what she wants. All I can do is control what I do in response, which would most likely be asking her to pack up her sh!t and get out. 

All I can do is set firm boundaries up front. "You cheat on me, you're gone. Period." 

That's it. 

One of my boundaries is that I will not put up with a partner making me feel uncomfortable or uncertain about her actions or motives. I simply refuse to give up the time and energy to worry about a partner who sneaks around, hides things, minimizes bad behavior, or who simply doesn't have the respect for me or the decency to take my feelings into account when she makes decisions. I don't have time for such infantile behavior in my life. If my 40 something year old wife or GF wants to go re-live her college days and recapture her youth?...."There's the door...right over there...that oblong wooden thing hanging in the hole in the wall. Don't let it smack your butt on the way out. Have fun. Don't call me."


----------



## naiveonedave

Blossom Leigh said:


> It's not necessarily age related. I get hit on frequently and I'm 46 and I know Elegirl does too and she is older than me.


with the high frequency of D, I think there are a lot of older folks hitting on each other than before. Just a numbers game?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

naiveonedave said:


> with the high frequency of D, I think there are a lot of older folks hitting on each other than before. Just a numbers game?


Not sure since the age range of men that hit on me runs from 26 to late 50's... I have no idea.


----------



## naiveonedave

Blossom Leigh said:


> Not sure since the age range of men that hit on me runs from 26 to late 50's... I have no idea.


I would take them hitting on you as a compliment!


----------



## Cosmos

OpenWindows said:


> I get all tingly whenever they call "O 69"!


Oh, stop it you tease! This thread is just _too _porny for me!:wink2:


----------



## straightshooter

*Intheory I think you are spot on. I'm not speculating when I say the group of them will get fall down, puking drunk. They will be dressed to get attention, and I'm sure they would take advantage of any free drinks that might come there way if you know what I'm saying. They are going for a wild weekend of partying and wouldn't deny that.

I do not however, consider any of them to be *****s as many have said. I don't see the group to be any different than your average mid 20s group of girls.

I'm speculating now, but I can almost garauntee that when they come back, there will be some kind of drama about something that happened that shouldn't have.

I'm just trying to paint a better picture of what the group atmosphere will be like.

Maybe as one poster said, I'm a little jealous. I was a bit surprised by my wifes enthusiasm at the announcement of this trip. It made me wonder if she secretly longed for the single life.

If she wasn't so thrilled about it, I actually don't think I would have been alarmed.

Like I said before, a good friend asked me to go on an all guys Vegas trip a few years ago. As the words came out of his mouth, I already knew my answer was no. I felt like I had all I need with my wife and my daughter, and simply wasn't interested in a trip like that. I chuckled as I told my my wife.

I think thats what bothered me the most. She WANTED to go. She felt like she needed it, and gave it up with reluctance. I got the feeling she wasn't as satisfied as I was.

In the end, my gut instinct told me it wasn't a good idea, and I'm not going to lie to her and tell her I'm ok with it.
Posted via Mobile Device*

The above comes from the OP, so I do not understand why there is still this constant reference to other things to do in Vegas. it is clear from OP, who knows these women, of exactly what the week end will consist of. No, this is NOT a guarantee his wife will cheat. But there is no doubt she will be in an environment for 72 hours where as Op stated, there will be a lot of drama going on. now why would any man or women WANT his or her spouse to knowingly want to go into that scene????

The two bigger questions here that Op has to figure out with wife are

(1) why being the only married woman going with this group, and knowing what their intentions are, is she so excited and anxious to go.???? These are not long lost friends that she never sees in other situations. Why does a married woman want to go away for a singles week end and leave her husband at home.???? That is what I would be concerned about. or don't some of you think as her husband he is entitled to any explanation???
(2) Sorry, part of walking down the aisle entails NOT doing everything that is was fine to do when you were single. Perfectly fine for women in non exclusive relationships, and again, please cut out the crap about they may not be having "wild" week end. give the OP some credit for knowing these people and his wife a little bit.

Part of any long term relationship is compromise I seriously doubt anyone in a long term marriage gets EVERYTHING they want. So why is it OK for her to tell him to screw off shes going anyway. Why would some of you think that is OK??????? Maybe he wants a PORCHE . Should he go out and buy it and tell her to go fly a kite if she does not think they can afford it or spend the money on it.

OP has made a number of statements here about his concern that with this group around her may impair her judgement with enough alcohol involved, which is definitely going to happen. Do any of us know how his wife acts when a little boozed up at home at parties?? No we do not!!!

OP, while this should not come to divorce drama, if your wife has so little respect for your feelings that this trip is more important than your concern, you have a lot of issues going forward. And you are NOT being a hypocrite since you have turned down with no discussion the same opportunities to play single man for a week end.

And lastly, there is an old saying that for married folks conversations and interactions with the opposite sex are noT OK IF YOU WOULD NOT HAVE THE SAME CONVERSATION WITH YOUR SPOUSE LISTENING.

For those of you who think this trip is fine, would you feel completely Ok with your husband sitting in the club watching what this group intends on doing and you being part of it. i doubt it. What you are saying is what he does not see or know will not hurt him and as long as she does not climb into the sack with anyone, all else is just fine.


----------



## OpenWindows

Cosmos said:


> Oh, stop it you tease! This thread is just _too _porny for me!:wink2:


My apologies. I was kicked out of my knitting circle for making dirty jokes about yarn balls, so now I fill my time making dirty jokes on TAM!


----------



## Cosmos

OpenWindows said:


> My apologies. I was kicked out of my knitting circle for making dirty jokes about yarn balls, so now I fill my time making dirty jokes on TAM!


I was banned from mine for suggesting that there was more to

"In, over, through and off..."

than actually meets the eye...:crying:


----------



## tech-novelist

I told my wife about this situation and she said "Then the OP should go with her".


----------



## OpenWindows

straightshooter said:


> OP, while this should not come to divorce drama, if your wife has so little respect for your feelings that this trip is more important than your concern, you have a lot of issues going forward. And you are NOT being a hypocrite since you have turned down with no discussion the same opportunities to play single man for a week end.


OP said his wife wouldn't go if he asked her not to. That seems like a pretty healthy level of respect for his feelings. She's allowed to be disappointed though... maybe a girl's Vegas trip sounded like fun to her and she intended on behaving herself. I'd be disappointed if my friends were going to Vegas and I was staying home!


----------



## OpenWindows

technovelist said:


> I told my wife about this situation and she said "Then the OP should go with her".


It's not a bad idea... She could party with the girls and come back to his room at night! And if the other girls are falling down drunk and she's not, she and H can hang out while the others recover from their hangovers.


----------



## straightshooter

*. maybe a girl's Vegas trip sounded like fun to her and she intended on behaving herself. I'd be disappointed if my friends were going to Vegas and I was staying home!
*

Open Window, do you know any men or women who have been unfaithful to their spouses?? if not, consider yourself fortunate.

But if you do, how many of them of either sex *DID NOT INTEND ON BEHAVING THEMSELVES.*

this is not some innocuous girls trip. it is a trip to play Spring Break in the desert. So lets assume she fully intends on "behaving' herself. Why does going out clubbing with a bunch of single women who have the intention of as OP stated doing something with drama and inappropriate by one of them appeal to her so much. That is the question he stated bothered him and got his radar up. 
He needs to have that discussion with her.

And you are correct. She said she would not go and I am not sure if that is still the outcome. Buit then it was suggested by someone that she would resent it.

She has no business resenting it. this marriage will not last long if any time she or he does not get exactly what they want that they carry resentment, especially when he has some valid reasons to be concerned.


----------



## italianjob

What's the point for a married person to get into a situation where good looking opposite sex people will try to get that person to be unfaithful, tempting that person, while under the influence of alcohol, and maybe something else, and while peer pressure will be at the maximum to do something naughty (and in this case, being the only married person of the group, I have no doubt that some of the others will make it a point of honor to get HER to do something really really naughty), and do it for 72 hours. Is this meant to be some kind of an extreme test? Do you feel she must show she can resist all temptation like Jesus in the desert?

If your spouse want to cheat on you, they will anyway. If they don't really want to cheat on you, this may be a good way for him/her to take a fall even if they didn't intend to.

You can get hit by a car on any street, anywhere. If you try to cross a very very busy highway for several times back and forth, you're looking for trouble...


----------



## Cosmos

OpenWindows said:


> OP said his wife wouldn't go if he asked her not to. That seems like a pretty healthy level of respect for his feelings. She's allowed to be disappointed though... maybe a girl's Vegas trip sounded like fun to her and she intended on behaving herself. I'd be disappointed if my friends were going to Vegas and I was staying home!


It's quite possible to realize that doing something isn't a good idea, but still wish that it was...

It would be a different matter if the OP's W was sitting around sulking, but it sounds to me as though he's the one who's sulking - simply because she got a buzz out of the idea that it would be fun to go on a girls' get away, but thought better of it when he told her he wasn't happy about it.


----------



## EllisRedding

italianjob said:


> What's the point for a married person to get into a situation where good looking opposite sex people will try to get that person to be unfaithful, tempting that person, while under the influence of alcohol, and maybe something else, and while peer pressure will be at the maximum to do something naughty (and in this case, being the only married person of the group, I have no doubt that some of the others will make it a point of honor to get HER to do something really really naughty), and do it for 72 hours. Is this meant to be some kind of an extreme test? Do you feel she must show she can resist all temptation like Jesus in the desert?


I would say for some (gender neutral here) it is the attention. They have no "intention" of doing anything, but at a minimum want the attention to make themselves feel good. We are all subject to this in the sense of feeling good (i.e. if some woman came up to me and told me I was a fine piece of ass, regardless of whether or not I was appalled at her, it would still be a nice ego boost). The difference in my mind is when you are actively going out of your way to get that acceptance, and by that putting yourself in a situation that you probably shouldn't be in.


----------



## EleGirl

Kivlor said:


> @EleGirl
> 
> My first post responding to you was regarding your list of innocuous things they could be doing. Do you think that list is what they intend to do, given the information? I think the OP was clear to his reason for concern in his first post:
> 
> This implied that the friends are A) the clubbing type of girls and B) clubbing is their intent for the trip and C) there will be no necessity to come home at a decent time. (Coincidentally, the OP has now updated the information we have, and confirmed what the character of these "friends" is, and their intent for the weekend)


I was responding to a question that was basically why would any woman to go Vegas except to get drunk and pick up on guys. And the remark that there is nothing to do in Vegas except that.


----------



## OpenWindows

straightshooter said:


> *. maybe a girl's Vegas trip sounded like fun to her and she intended on behaving herself. I'd be disappointed if my friends were going to Vegas and I was staying home!
> *
> 
> Open Window, do you know any men or women who have been unfaithful to their spouses?? if not, consider yourself fortunate.
> 
> But if you do, how many of them of either sex *DID NOT INTEND ON BEHAVING THEMSELVES.*
> 
> this is not some innocuous girls trip. it is a trip to play Spring Break in the desert. So lets assume she fully intends on "behaving' herself. Why does going out clubbing with a bunch of single women who have the intention of as OP stated doing something with drama and inappropriate by one of them appeal to her so much. That is the question he stated bothered him and got his radar up.
> He needs to have that discussion with her.
> 
> And you are correct. She said she would not go and I am not sure if that is still the outcome. Buit then it was suggested by someone that she would resent it.
> 
> She has no business resenting it. this marriage will not last long if any time she or he does not get exactly what they want that they carry resentment, especially when he has some valid reasons to be concerned.


I'm not saying OP is wrong for wanting her to stay home. He is being reasonable.

My point is, she is allowed to feel what she feels. You may not approve of the fact that she enjoys clubbing, but she still enjoys it. You may not feel that she has a right to be resentful, but that won't change her feelings. She wants to have fun with her cousin that is about to get married. The situation is sketchy, but it's not fair to assume that her intentions are sketchy as well.

I'm not trying to position that resentment as a big, life changing event for her. I just think that if she wants to go, and he doesn't want her to, and she respects his feelings, then he owes her some respect for her feelings as well. It would be wise of him to replace the good time she was planning with some sort of "couple approved" good time, rather than getting pissy that she doesn't see the situation the same way as he does.


----------



## soccermom2three

This thread is so weird to me. I've been to Vegas without my husband and he's been there without me and we've been together. It's never been an issue. Maybe because we live less than an hour plane ride or a 4-5 hour drive it's just no big deal.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> So lets assume she fully intends on "behaving' herself. Why does going out clubbing with a bunch of single women who have the intention of as OP stated doing something with drama and inappropriate by one of them appeal to her so much. That is the question he stated bothered him and got his radar up.


Thanks, I forgot to address this in my post. His radar should go down, he is overthinking this right now. 
I'm not going to cast aspersions on his wife, when he has stated she has been good and given him no reason to doubt. She could be excited to go hang out with her friends on a trip, but didn't realize the implications and baggage that surrounds bachelorette and bachelor parties. Heck, no purposeful offense to anyone, but look at how some of the women keep saying "trip," "vacation," "GNO" and inserting all of these weird little red herrings which have nothing to do with the OP. It's not only his wife who thinks it is just a fun getaway trip. We have evidence, right in this thread, some women think it is the same as any other night with friends. 


soccermom2three said:


> This thread is so weird to me. I've been to Vegas without my husband and he's been there without me and we've been together. It's never been an issue. Maybe because we live less than an hour plane ride or a 4-5 hour drive it's just no big deal.


See what I mean? They very well could be right, but there is no guilt in telling your spouse "I don't like the scenario." It's weird to me how BACHELORETTE party is a bad word and it's like there is a word filter in the posts.. 




So, I can fully believe she didn't see it like most of us men and a few women and there is no need for an inquisition.


----------



## OpenWindows

Thank you Philly... I think you stated much better what I was struggling to express!!

If she feels the way you describe, and doesn't get to go, it would be reasonable for her to be unhappy about that. And it would be wise of her H to respect that and maybe make it up to her.

I'll admit my perspective may be skewed, because the most inappropriate thing I've ever seen at a bachelorette party was a penis shaped cake (cream filled!). But I can totally believe that she sees it the same way as I do, and doesn't understand why it's such a big deal to her H.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Let's be real, he did passively imply he didn't trust her or her choice of friends. We are all kid of dancing around this point. She has every right to feel resentment, just like he has a right to feel worried. It's holding onto these issues, not talking about them and letting them fester which makes them become marriage breaking issues.


----------



## OpenWindows

soccermom2three said:


> This thread is so weird to me. I've been to Vegas without my husband and he's been there without me and we've been together. It's never been an issue. Maybe because we live less than an hour plane ride or a 4-5 hour drive it's just no big deal.


It's weird to me too. I wasn't aware that some couples forbade bachelor/ette parties before reading this thread. I've never known anyone who had issues with them, or who had an insane party.


----------



## samyeagar

Not trusting is not always a negative. Sometimes it's just simply acknowledging reality and nothing more.

Another thing at play in these kinds of scenarios is the fact that different people have different standards, even within the same relationship. That is where respect for others is so incredibly important.

My wife and I are a perfect example of this. My wife would be alright with me going out with the guys to the strip club, and if there was a little boob touchy feely she'd be ok with it. I would not be ok with the same if things were reversed. Her friends fall more along the lines as she does, so there is a good bet that there would be pressure on my wife to have some groping going on. They would not see it as a big deal. Do I think she'd have sex with the guy? No way, not even if she was totally plastered, but she would likely cross my boundaries long before it got to that point. Some of her friends did want to take her out drinking and to a male strip club for her bachelorette party. When she told me about it, I asked her if she thought I would be comfortable with how she would act there. She said I wouldn't be, and she knew that which is why she declined the offer.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You are absolutely right.


----------



## EleGirl

OpenWindows said:


> It's weird to me too. I wasn't aware that some couples forbade bachelor/ette parties before reading this thread. I've never known anyone who had issues with them, or who had an insane party.


I think that TV & movies have portrayed bachelor/ette parties as complete debauchery. And Vegas as purposely crated slogans like "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and some people think that what they see on TV and in movies is how every bachelor/ette party goes down. I have no doubt that some do. But I rather doubt that the vast majority of them do... even in Vegas.

Keep in mind that when we have had discussion on here about GNO most assume this means behaving in the same way that many seem to think all women do at bachelorette parties. Why? I don't know. I guess some assume that without male supervision, women have no self control.

.


----------



## TRy

lifeistooshort said:


> she passed on the trip because she knew you wouldn't like it, so that shows consideration for you. Why is that not enough?


 *This!!!!*


----------



## straightshooter

*I think that TV & movies have portrayed bachelor/ette parties as complete debauchery. And Vegas as purposely crated slogans like "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and some people think that what they see on TV and in movies is how every bachelor/ette party goes down. I have no doubt that some do. But I rather doubt that the vast majority of them do... even in Vegas.*

EXACTLY!!! And the OP has stated that none of these girlfriends would deny that what is portrayed above is exactly what they intend doing.

So there SHOULD be a happy ending here
(1) OP expressed his concern and told her he was not cool with her going.
(2) she expressed her disappointment but respected her husbands concern
(3) he listened to her explain why she was so disappointed (I hope she gave him an explanation and I hope it was as some have suggested that she wanted to be with cousin and not wanted to have a singles week end)
(4) OP should communicate and discuss boundaries and expectations that they are both comfortable with
(5) OP should thank his wife and do something really nice for her.
(6) and wife should not be holding grudges or resentment for doing something kind and listening to husbands concerns.

If the above happen, there should be no lasting fall out from this


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Don't ruin your marriage over this very minor issue. 


Pay attention to what some of the women are saying, then realize this is most likely the same rationalization and minimization going on with your wife and her friends. Good luck OP and MAKE sure you have a long talk with your wife in a loving non-confrontational manner. This very minor issue can become huge, if she has even one friend helping her to blame it on TV, using males as supervisors and then agreeing it could happen.


----------



## naiveonedave

EleGirl said:


> I think that TV & movies have portrayed bachelor/ette parties as complete debauchery. And Vegas as purposely crated slogans like "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and some people think that what they see on TV and in movies is how every bachelor/ette party goes down. I have no doubt that some do. But I rather doubt that the vast majority of them do... even in Vegas.
> 
> Keep in mind that when we have had discussion on here about GNO most assume this means behaving in the same way that many seem to think all women do at bachelorette parties. Why? I don't know. I guess some assume that without male supervision, women have no self control.
> 
> .


Based on what we know from the OP, the single women are going for the debauchery. I have witnessed several bachelor and b'ette parties that way crossed my boundaries (they occurred in the tame Midwest). With the known conspirators, the alcohol, the peer pressure (which will be there as the singles start to hook up), I can sympathize with the OP. To deny this won't happen is pretty ludicrous. The OP basically is 100% sure it is heavy drinking/dancing/clubbing. 

I would struggle if my wife would do the same. I can also see why he is distraught at his W reaction to the whole thing.

I do agree that they need to handle this as adults.


----------



## alexm

18 pages and counting, and only 24 hours since the first post. Impressive!

I'm a guy. I would not attend something like this if I was the only married man going. Vegas or Sheboygan, it doesn't really matter. The intent is to "party" and for the man/woman who is to get married to be sent off with a bang.

No, that most certainly does not mean "sex". But. Inhibitions are down, alcohol is present, being amongst only non-married people, and many men (or women) in these clubs specifically looking to get lucky = a peer-pressure disaster waiting to happen.

To the point that, as I said, *I* would not attend something like this, as a married man, if it was only my single male friends going.

I trust myself. I have zero intentions of ruining a (more or less) good marriage with a woman I love dearly. But I am also not naive enough to think that, even I, could 100% resist this ****tail of temptations. Even 99.9% certainty isn't enough for me. I, like most people alive, have done some awfully damn stupid things under the influence and/or during a "perfect storm" of elements. Things that seem inconsequential or harmless during these times, most often do not when you sober up and return to normal life. In other words, it's much easier to do things you wouldn't normally do, given the right (or wrong) circumstances.

In this case, specifically, I would not be happy with my wife being the only married woman attending this weekend. If the circumstances were different (ie. other married women, and/or somebody else attending whom I trusted implicitly), then I would be okay with it.

For me, it's not at all a case of not trusting one's spouse. Everybody, and I mean everybody, can get carried away, or suffer from a lack of judgement given the right circumstances. When it comes to trust, I can only trust that my wife, for example, would not be attending a function like this in order to get laid, or specifically for the same reasons the other women are going, nor would she have any intentions or hopes of crossing the line. But the reality is, that for her, me, you, anybody, intentions and morals and ethics are really only valid under quote/unquote "normal" circumstances.

But if you put anybody in an environment such as the one OP has said his wife would have been in, all bets go out the window - and it rarely has anything to do with things such as moral character, whether you agree or not. People do things they regret all the damn time, even the last person one would expect to do this, that or the other thing. Where morality comes into play is in how they deal with it after it's already happened - do they truly feel awful and confess to whatever they've done? Do they shrug it off and say "no big deal, drunken mistake?" Do they secretly feel good about it and keep it as "their little secret"? And this doesn't just apply to infidelity, or anything sexual - this could be anything.

But for anybody (including myself) to say "I'd NEVER do that" is naive. It may be completely valid and truthful BEFORE one is put into any situation that is conducive to bad behaviour, but once you're in that situation, all bets are off, whether you thing you have the moral fortitude to abstain from bad behaviour in the first place.


----------



## New_Beginnings

soccermom2three said:


> This thread is so weird to me. I've been to Vegas without my husband and he's been there without me and we've been together. It's never been an issue. Maybe because we live less than an hour plane ride or a 4-5 hour drive it's just no big deal.


Same here just weird to me. Many people in AZ take the small drive to LV and it's not just because it's a sin spot but more so a tourist spot, lots to do.


----------



## naiveonedave

New_Beginnings said:


> Same here just weird to me. Many people in AZ take the small drive to LV and it's not just because it's a sin spot but more so a tourist spot, lots to do.


you need to read the post from the OP, stating who is going and what they are planning to do. They are planning on using LV as sin city, not as a tourist destination. Big difference.


----------



## New_Beginnings

naiveonedave said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same here just weird to me. Many people in AZ take the small drive to LV and it's not just because it's a sin spot but more so a tourist spot, lots to do.
> 
> 
> 
> you need to read the post from the OP, stating who is going and what they are planning to do. They are planning on using LV as sin city, not as a tourist destination. Big difference.
Click to expand...


Was this the same post, where he said he trusts his wife and she's not a going out person? The same post of his wife's friend who's bachorlette is also her cousin?


----------



## New_Beginnings

If you can't trust your wife to be on wife behavior without blaming surroundings and or other people "don't get married"!


----------



## naiveonedave

New_Beginnings said:


> If you can't trust your wife to be on wife behavior without blaming surroundings and or other people "don't get married"!


or just have boundaries or just don't put yourself in a situation where booze and peer pressure may cause you to give into temptations (not everyone will cheat, but studies show that >>50% would cheat if they can get away with it and people have less control than they think, especially when drinking).

And this has nothing to do with gender....


----------



## naiveonedave

New_Beginnings said:


> Was this the same post, where he said he trusts his wife and she's not a going out person? The same post of his wife's friend who's bachorlette is also her cousin?


I won't read the thread for you. You might be best off if you read it before posting.

The summary: 7 single girls, 1 married, the plan is to club for 3 days. He veiled it a little, but basically called the single girls ****s.


----------



## New_Beginnings

A club in Vegas or a club in your town. A person can dance without taking a man home. Believe it or not some actually can dance with just their girlfriends! ::gasps:: I know, can you imagine? No grinding up a man's leg.. Wow.. Shocking...

Some girls can have fun with girlfriends. If one girl acts like a single or loose person, doesn't mean his wife has rights to do so or would. If that's how they act, I'd be more concerned to her hanging out with them before this even came about.

Are we peer pressured adults, who now blame shift based on possibilities? It's the environment, it's due to the alchohl, it's due to the single women present. Get a grip and take responsibility for yourself.


----------



## naiveonedave

New_Beginnings said:


> A club in Vegas or a club in your town. A person can dance without taking a man home. Believe it or not some actually can dance with just their girlfriends! ::gasps:: I know, can you imagine? No grinding up a man's leg.. Wow.. Shocking...
> 
> Some girls can have fun with girlfriends. If one girl acts like a single or loose person, doesn't mean his wife has rights to do so or would. If that's how they act, I'd be more concerned to her hanging out with them before this even came about.
> 
> Are we peer pressured adults, who now blame shift based on possibilities? It's the environment, it's due to the alchohl, it's due to the single women present. Get a grip and take responsibility for yourself.


I think you are very naïve. People go clubbing in LV to do what? It isn't as innocent as you make it out to be. Sure, she could do it at the home town, but in LV there is going to be more peer pressure and basically zero chance of someone catching her.

More than 1 marriage has ended because of a drunken mistake in LV. Probably many more should have, but got buried.

The OP did state he didn't like the W hanging with this group either... Read the thread


----------



## New_Beginnings

naiveonedave said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was this the same post, where he said he trusts his wife and she's not a going out person? The same post of his wife's friend who's bachorlette is also her cousin?
> 
> 
> 
> I won't read the thread for you. You might be best off if you read it before posting.
> 
> The summary: 7 single girls, 1 married, the plan is to club for 3 days. He veiled it a little, but basically called the single girls ****s.
Click to expand...


So where were his boundaries with her having friends? I mean cmon... Now it's a problem because there's a bachorlette party? 

I read original post.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

even if she goes totally loose and crazy, if it's only for a night it won't kill you. do you love and care for her, or just seek to rule and own her life?


----------



## New_Beginnings

naiveonedave said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> A club in Vegas or a club in your town. A person can dance without taking a man home. Believe it or not some actually can dance with just their girlfriends! ::gasps:: I know, can you imagine? No grinding up a man's leg.. Wow.. Shocking...
> 
> Some girls can have fun with girlfriends. If one girl acts like a single or loose person, doesn't mean his wife has rights to do so or would. If that's how they act, I'd be more concerned to her hanging out with them before this even came about.
> 
> Are we peer pressured adults, who now blame shift based on possibilities? It's the environment, it's due to the alchohl, it's due to the single women present. Get a grip and take responsibility for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are very naïve. People go clubbing in LV to do what? It isn't as innocent as you make it out to be. Sure, she could do it at the home town, but in LV there is going to be more peer pressure and basically zero chance of someone catching her.
Click to expand...

Some people (like myself) don't view Vegas as some holy grail of sin. You could have zero chances of getting caught cheating in your state as well. Cmon man. Plus do people not feel guilt? 

If not, maybe more people should go to Vegas As a trial run to see if youre marriage material.


----------



## samyeagar

New_Beginnings said:


> A club in Vegas or a club in your town. A person can dance without taking a man home. Believe it or not some actually can dance with just their girlfriends! ::gasps:: I know, can you imagine? No grinding up a man's leg.. Wow.. Shocking...
> 
> Some girls can have fun with girlfriends. If one girl acts like a single or loose person, doesn't mean his wife has rights to do so or would. If that's how they act, I'd be more concerned to her hanging out with them before this even came about.
> 
> *Are we peer pressured adults, who now blame shift based on possibilities? It's the environment, it's due to the alchohl, it's due to the single women present. Get a grip and take responsibility for yourself*.


Many adults are susceptible to peer pressure, especially when there are many contributing factors.

In your example above of the club in their home town vs clubbing in Vegas...one important difference...being close to home is actually a limiting factor in behaviour because of the risk of being seen by others whom may know.


----------



## ABHale

EleGirl said:


> Las Vegas also has a reputation of being a destination that has some very good things... good show, wonderful restaurants, and on and on. It's a blast to spend a few days there doing things other than getting fall down drunk and being out of control.
> 
> A person can get fall down drunk and have sex with strangers in any town in the USA. No need to go to Las Vegas for that.


I agree for the most part. Then take your SO as part of the group and no problems. The gf's can do their own thing then meet back up at night with SO. The problem is when they go there for the drunken party to begin with and start meeting up with others. This goes for both men and women. I have read to many stories of it happening.


----------



## naiveonedave

spotthedeaddog said:


> even if she goes totally loose and crazy, if it's only for a night it won't kill you. do you love and care for her, or just seek to rule and own her life?


so you are good with your spouse having a drunken OS, because they just decided to get crazy one night? And somehow, one is trying to rule by having boundaries to prevent that?


----------



## naiveonedave

New_Beginnings said:


> Some people (like myself) don't view Vegas as some holy grail of sin. You could have zero chances of getting caught cheating in your state as well. Cmon man. Plus do people not feel guilt?
> 
> If not, maybe more people should go to Vegas As a trial run to see if youre marriage material.


actually, I disagree. If she goes on a GNO local, you probably see her the next day, there are others that know both of you (most likely) there or a high probability of it. Word gets around....

I would not want to be married to someone who wants to go clubbing w/o me. I expect my spouse to feel the same. Single life dies when you get married. So, in some regard your last bullet is probably appropriate.


----------



## samyeagar

I would almost liken the idea of strippers at the last fling parties to bringing heroin to the person going into rehab the next morning. Just seems counter intuitive to me. My bachelor party was perfect for me...a few buddies and I on the golf course, and home in time for dinner and to bang my wife to be before midnight...you know, that whole not seeing the bride on the day of the wedding and all.


----------



## New_Beginnings

samyeagar said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> A club in Vegas or a club in your town. A person can dance without taking a man home. Believe it or not some actually can dance with just their girlfriends! ::gasps:: I know, can you imagine? No grinding up a man's leg.. Wow.. Shocking...
> 
> Some girls can have fun with girlfriends. If one girl acts like a single or loose person, doesn't mean his wife has rights to do so or would. If that's how they act, I'd be more concerned to her hanging out with them before this even came about.
> 
> *Are we peer pressured adults, who now blame shift based on possibilities? It's the environment, it's due to the alchohl, it's due to the single women present. Get a grip and take responsibility for yourself*.
> 
> 
> 
> Many adults are susceptible to peer pressure, especially when there are many contributing factors.
> 
> In your example above of the club in their home town vs clubbing in Vegas...one important difference...being close to home is actually a limiting factor in behaviour because of the risk of being seen by others whom may know.
Click to expand...


Hmmm coming from someone who did cheat before children... Environment had little to do with my behavior. I didn't have respect for myself or my partner. If that's a missing factor in this marriage then yes!! Vegas could be a problem.


----------



## New_Beginnings

naiveonedave said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some people (like myself) don't view Vegas as some holy grail of sin. You could have zero chances of getting caught cheating in your state as well. Cmon man. Plus do people not feel guilt?
> 
> If not, maybe more people should go to Vegas As a trial run to see if youre marriage material.
> 
> 
> 
> actually, I disagree. If she goes on a GNO local, you probably see her the next day, there are others that know both of you (most likely) there or a high probability of it. Word gets around....
> 
> I would not want to be married to someone who wants to go clubbing w/o me. I expect my spouse to feel the same. Single life dies when you get married. So, in some regard your last bullet is probably appropriate.
Click to expand...


Yeah I honestly have no desire to go dancing without my husband so I agree. I was offered same trip with my sister for her bachorlette but I declined because of expenses not because I felt I would cheat. I'm thankful my husband had enough trust that I would make wise decisions. A night of sin doesn't sound appealing to me. I was only going to go to show I support my sister and her wanting to hangout in Vegas. Plus I'm a bridesmaid.


----------



## Be smart

Tell your wife you will buy a ticket for her and yourself and you are going to spend a weekend together in Las Vegas.

If she saw that this bothered you she would decline this trip. Simple as that. 

It is another thing if all of them decided they want to see shows or something like that,but this is Bachelor Party and this single girls are not going to watch it.


----------



## Be smart

I couldnt find a thread and I will try my best. 

Sometime ago husband came here and asked for help. His wife went to Bachelor Party,she got drunk and she ended the night giving a blowjob. to one of the stripers.

They are Divorced now.


----------



## New_Beginnings

Be smart said:


> I couldnt find a thread and I will try my best.
> 
> Sometime ago husband came here and asked for help. His wife went to Bachelor Party,she got drunk and she ended the night giving a blowjob. to one of the stripers.
> 
> They are Divorced now.


He should thank Vegas. Who wants to be married to someone who doesn't value their marriage and or have their own boundaries regardless to location.


----------



## New_Beginnings

OliviaG said:


> Be smart said:
> 
> 
> 
> I couldnt find a thread and I will try my best.
> 
> Sometime ago husband came here and asked for help. His wife went to Bachelor Party,she got drunk and she ended the night giving a blowjob. to one of the stripers.
> 
> They are Divorced now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can always find a small number of people who do outrageous things but this, I'm sure, is not reflective of the MAJORITY of married women who attend bachelorette parties in Vegas or anywhere else.
> 
> Seriously, I can't imagine any of my friends doing something like this no matter how much they drank or at any age. It's just such an outrageous story. I don't doubt it happened, but I don't think it's got any bearing on the OPs wife's likely behaviour.
Click to expand...


Completely agree. I didn't get that at all from his original post either.

Plus did anyone not miss how the OP said he wouldn't mind one drunken night or not be opposed to a male stripper??? Those who are bashing clubbing or strippers that didn't push his boundary (particularly as her husband). That might push your boundary but not case for the OP.

He's wasnt happy about 3days (understandable) I personally wouldn't want to be away for 3days either. Also on page 2 the OP stated "she's not going".


----------



## Djkool

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Don't ruin your marriage over this very minor issue.
> 
> 
> Pay attention to what some of the women are saying, then realize this is most likely the same rationalization and minimization going on with your wife and her friends. Good luck OP and MAKE sure you have a long talk with your wife in a loving non-confrontational manner. This very minor issue can become huge, if she has even one friend helping her to blame it on TV, using males as supervisors and then agreeing it could happen.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

If you don't talk this out some of the things being stated, by many of the women in this thread, may be what your wife hears from her friends. 
Male supervision.
It's just a trip.
I don't get why you can't go.
There are many things to do.
Doesn't he trust you.
Vegas isn't just about sex.
What, women can't party.
Many vs a small incident.

Talk to your wife, explain why you are having an issue and listen to why she wants to go. Yes, I know you have talked and she said she isn't going. It would be very easy to rest because you got what you wanted. Then the resentment builds and you have Major issues over a minor problem.


----------



## Djkool

phillybeffandswiss said:


> If you don't talk this out some of the things being stated, by many of the women in this thread, may be what your wife hears from her friends.
> Male supervision.
> It's just a trip.
> I don't get why you can't go.
> There are many things to do.
> Doesn't he trust you.
> Vegas isn't just about sex.
> What, women can't party.
> Many vs a small incident.
> 
> Talk to your wife, explain why you are having an issue and listen to why she wants to go. Yes, I know you have talked and she said she isn't going. It would be very easy to rest because you got what you wanted. Then the resentment builds and you have Major issues over a minor problem.


I doubt its over. I wont bring it up again to her, but I'm sure when the bride finds out, $hit will hit the fan. Its still two or three months away and there will be much talk of it. I don't think I'll put up much of a fight. She already knows how I feel about it. If she goes, I'll probably get over it... maybe I wont. In a way, I feel like it might free me a little bit, as I'm always doing whats best for my family and putting myself second.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## New_Beginnings

Djkool said:


> phillybeffandswiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't talk this out some of the things being stated, by many of the women in this thread, may be what your wife hears from her friends.
> Male supervision.
> It's just a trip.
> I don't get why you can't go.
> There are many things to do.
> Doesn't he trust you.
> Vegas isn't just about sex.
> What, women can't party.
> Many vs a small incident.
> 
> Talk to your wife, explain why you are having an issue and listen to why she wants to go. Yes, I know you have talked and she said she isn't going. It would be very easy to rest because you got what you wanted. Then the resentment builds and you have Major issues over a minor problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt its over. I wont bring it up again to her, but I'm sure when the bride finds out, $hit will hit the fan. Its still two or three months away and there will be much talk of it. I don't think I'll put up much of a fight. She already knows how I feel about it. If she goes, I'll probably get over it... maybe I wont. In a way, I feel like it might free me a little bit, as I'm always doing whats best for my family and putting myself second.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


I'm not sure why the bride will throw a fit. I know my sister understood my reasons to not want to go and I would bring it up again, so you don't be her excuse then the bride will look at you sideways. 

This should be a decision she makes out of what she wants to do and out of respect for your marriage. Yes you'd get over it, if she went but shouldn't be a fight about not going or if she goes go. You both should feel comfortable with whatever she decides and that's why It's crucial to talk about it again. 

Don't be the douche husband who tells his wife what to do and yes that's what you'll be labeled when she says "my husband won't let me go". No you aren't a douche but see how it will ultimately fall on you?


----------



## CatJayBird

FINE...I said I wasn't going....geesh!! Can we all just drop it now?!

jk.....

None of us know your wife OP, but I believe that, if you are not normally controlling of the things she wants to do, she will stick to her word of not going because of mutual respect.

But..YES...do try to plan something for the both of you to do together. Ya know...since she is going to miss out on that wild weekend ride of unabandoned hot sex with oiled up sketch dudes.....


----------



## soccermom2three

naiveonedave said:


> or just have boundaries or just don't put yourself in a situation where booze and peer pressure may cause you to give into temptations (not everyone will cheat, but studies show that >>50% would cheat if they can get away with it and people have less control than they think, especially when drinking).
> 
> And this has nothing to do with gender....


What? A person either has a backbone or they don't. I've been around crazy situations and my boundaries always held. OP has said he trusts his wife. 

If a person has a history of going overboard THEN I might be able to agree with you. I have a girlfriend that the rest of us have to watch like a hawk or she'll disappear for a couple of hours. That's who doesn't get to go to Vegas, lol.


----------



## New_Beginnings

soccermom2three said:


> naiveonedave said:
> 
> 
> 
> or just have boundaries or just don't put yourself in a situation where booze and peer pressure may cause you to give into temptations (not everyone will cheat, but studies show that >>50% would cheat if they can get away with it and people have less control than they think, especially when drinking).
> 
> And this has nothing to do with gender....
> 
> 
> 
> What? A person either has a backbone or they don't. I've been around crazy situations and my boundaries always held. OP has said he trusts his wife.
> 
> If a person has a history of going overboard THEN I might be able to agree with you. I have a girlfriend that the rest of us have to watch like a hawk or she'll disappear for a couple of hours. That's who doesn't get to go to Vegas, lol.
Click to expand...


LOL! Seriously, truth.


----------



## soccermom2three

New_Beginnings said:


> Some people (like myself) don't view Vegas as some holy grail of sin. You could have zero chances of getting caught cheating in your state as well. Cmon man. Plus do people not feel guilt?
> 
> If not, maybe more people should go to Vegas As a trial run to see if youre marriage material.


I agree. I've been to Vegas so many times, I guess I don't see it as sin city. What's in Vegas that's not in your own state that can get you in trouble.


----------



## WonkyNinja

straightshooter said:


> So there SHOULD be a happy ending here


I think you misunderstood the OP. 

The bachelorette party is going for clubs and drinking. It's the massage parlors in Vegas that are famous for having a happy ending. :grin2:

and according to this thread anyone who ever goes for a massage will get a happy ending whether they wanted one or not. :smile2:


----------



## jdawg2015

soccermom2three said:


> I agree. I've been to Vegas so many times, I guess I don't see it as sin city. What's in Vegas that's not in your own state that can get you in trouble.


Does the OP's wife spend three days in a place designed for partying back home?

That is what is not in his home state.


I get the whole bachelor parties thing. I really do. I was in the Navy. 

Do a simple search on Yahoo! or Google! where the wife or husband did something out of character during a bachelor/bachelorette party or the spouse spends YEARS trying to find out what really happened. It's alcohol and sexually charged environment.

OP doesn't feel comfortable, he talked to his wife, and she considered him and his side. That's healthy.

If a three day party fest with single friends is worth more than your marriage then what does that say?

If he was ok with it, then that's also not a problem. But he's not. So that's his boundary.


----------



## GusPolinski

OliviaG said:


> I'm sure everyone has heard of the handful of people who have been using their GPS in the car and mindlessly followed it into a lake or into a field or miles down a dirt trail that leads nowhere? Outrageously dumb, right? Downright dangerous! Does that mean we should fear our spouses using a GPS when driving?


I'm drawing a blank on your analogy, but that's probably just because I can't find a way to draw any sort of meaningful comparison between something as universally useful as GPS technology and 3 days of drunken partying in Vegas amidst the backdrop of a bachelor or bachelorette party.



OliviaG said:


> The thought of a spouse cheating triggers very strong emotions so we have a tendency to over-react to perceived dangers. I think that's what's going on here.


There's probably a fair amount of that going on here.

Just as puzzling to me, though, are the amazing levels of naïveté on display.

For everyone minimizing this, would you feel as at ease w/ this if it were your own spouse expressing interest in attending such a trip alongside several _single_ friends?

Also consider this -- if such a thing didn't represent a pretty significant turn away from his wife's usual behavior, would the OP have even bothered posting here in the first place?


----------



## jdawg2015

OliviaG said:


> I'm sure everyone has heard of the handful of people who have been using their GPS in the car and mindlessly followed it into a lake or into a field or miles down a dirt trail that leads nowhere? Outrageously dumb, right? Downright dangerous! Does that mean we should fear our spouses using a GPS when driving?
> 
> The thought of a spouse cheating triggers very strong emotions so we have a tendency to over-react to perceived dangers. I think that's what's going on here.


Classic strawman argument. Not even close to the same.


----------



## the guy

Folks....how many thread have we all read that start out with these 7 words "I never thought she would do this"?

So why take a chance?

I think your wife would be a hard score....but in the same breath she would be the perfect score. Her single friends wouldn't make much of a challenge, but taking some guys wife would be a conquest!!!

Kind of phucked up, but that's how the world is these days!

Some strange college kid from UNLV scores a married chick and brags. Some hungover wife gets used and feels like shyt and flies home filled with guilt.


Just so we are clear...I'm not the college kid....I'm the husband wonder who my wife's new friend is with the 702 area code!


----------



## soccermom2three

jdawg2015 said:


> Do a simple search on Yahoo! or Google! where the wife or husband did something out of character during a bachelor/bachelorette party or the spouse spends YEARS trying to find out what really happened. It's alcohol and sexually charged environment.
> .


Of course doing a Google search of bachelor/bachelorette parties or Vegas trips is going to show wild stuff. The people that go to Vegas to sit at a blackjack table 24/7 aren't going to post about the wild time they had.


----------



## GusPolinski

OliviaG said:


> I guess I feel that I *have* thought about it from that perspective because my husband had a tradition of doing something similar with his buddies (guys' weekend - hard partying and strip clubs) every year. I never objected or worried about it at all. I figured it was a "male bonding ritual" and was important to him. Now this was 2 nights, not 3 nights, but I don't think that's material. It wasn't Vegas, but I wouldn't have cared if it was. Some of the guys were single, some married. They probably said and did a lot of stuff that I'm glad I didn't have to witness, but I'm sure my husband did not cheat. If he did, I'll never know, but I really am not worried that he did. I know him and I have always felt pretty confident in the strength of our relationship. I guess if I felt he was unhappy with our marriage or if he was complaining about not getting enough sex or if he had no boundaries when he was drinking, then I would have objected. But that was never the case. I trusted him.


There's trust, and then there's turning a blind eye to behavior that any reasonable person would scrutinize.

To many people this type of behavior simply has no place within a marriage, and that's whether it's the husband or wife indulging in said behavior.

Still, if this is something that your husband always did, and you were OK w/ it, then that's fine. That doesn't seem to be the case here, though.


----------



## GusPolinski

soccermom2three said:


> Of course doing a Google search of bachelor/bachelorette parties or Vegas trips is going to show wild stuff. The people that go to Vegas to sit at a blackjack table 24/7 aren't going to post about the wild time they had.


The whole Google argument aside, I tend to doubt that many of the people -- whether male or female -- traveling to Vegas for a bachelor/bachelorette party wind up gambling the entire time.


----------



## Cosmos

OliviaG said:


> Well heck, I think I'm a reasonable person, so that can't be it. :|
> 
> It looks like opinions are split on this issue. No right or wrong answer, it all depends on the people involved and the dynamic in their relationship. I do think if a spouse is uncomfortable with an activity, then his/her feelings should be respected. But there is a cost to distrust, so you've got to weigh that too.


I agree. In this case, though, the W is darned if she does and darned if she doesn't - simply because she showed an initial interest in going...


----------



## GusPolinski

OliviaG said:


> Well heck, I think I'm a reasonable person, so that can't be it. :|
> 
> It looks like opinions are split on this issue. No right or wrong answer, it all depends on the people involved and the dynamic in their relationship. I do think if a spouse is uncomfortable with an activity, then his/her feelings should be respected. But there is a cost to distrust, so you've got to weigh that too.


I don't necessarily disagree w/ any of that.

Still, I'd point out that extending _too much_ trust -- or, for that matter, _any_ trust where not warranted -- has the potential to be every bit as damaging (if not more so) than distrust. This may or may not apply here, though. From what I've read, it probably doesn't.

And, again, it's not necessarily that a given behavior is cause for concern, but rather that a _change in behavior_, if significant enough, SHOULD be cause for concern. Again, this may not apply here.


----------



## GusPolinski

Cosmos said:


> I agree. In this case, though, *the W is darned if she does and darned if she doesn't* - simply because she showed an initial interest in going...


How so?


----------



## jdawg2015

Cosmos said:


> I agree. In this case, though, the W is darned if she does and darned if she doesn't - simply because she showed an initial interest in going...


Actually she's not darned if she does. She keeps her hubby happy. That's hopefully worth something too her.


----------



## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. In this case, though, *the W is darned if she does and darned if she doesn't* - simply because she showed an initial interest in going...
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...

She is darned if she goes because it would seriously upset her husband.

She is darned if she does not go because he is very upset with her for even wanting to go.



Djkool said:


> …….
> 
> Maybe as one poster said, I'm a little jealous. I was a bit surprised by my wifes enthusiasm at the announcement of this trip. It made me wonder if she secretly longed for the single life.
> 
> If she wasn't so thrilled about it, I actually don't think I would have been alarmed.
> 
> ……
> 
> I think thats what bothered me the most. She WANTED to go. She felt like she needed it, and gave it up with reluctance. I got the feeling she wasn't as satisfied as I was.


----------



## LesMainsDuMonde

Tell her how you feel and have her tell you that its going to be fine, then completely shut this out of your head. 

This is your ego talking and getting the better of you, that is all, and unfortunately it can hurt your relationship badly. Remember that the way you treat her now could actually make her not trust the way you can treat her as a partner over time. So ask yourself, is this worth potentially losing her over time, then remember that its your problem and you have to be the one to manage yourself. Then go find a hobby or something to get it off your mind (I don't mean that in an unkind way.) I hope this helps.


----------



## Cosmos

jdawg2015 said:


> Actually she's not darned if she does. She keeps her hubby happy. That's hopefully worth something too her.


You missed my meaning.

She's darned if she does (go) because it would upset her H.

She's darned if she doesn't (go) because she's still in the dog house for even _thinking _of going...


----------



## alexm

OliviaG said:


> Well heck, I think I'm a reasonable person, so that can't be it. :|
> 
> It looks like opinions are split on this issue. No right or wrong answer, it all depends on the people involved and the dynamic in their relationship. I do think if a spouse is uncomfortable with an activity, then his/her feelings should be respected. But there is a cost to distrust, so you've got to weigh that too.


I actually don't think this has much to do with trust in the first place. I really don't. I get the impression OP trusts his wife. There doesn't appear to be any past history that would cause him to not trust her. The sheer fact that she's already agreed NOT to go also shows that she respects him (and vice versa). OP's post, as he alluded to later on, was hypothetical.

I think it's the situation that makes OP uncomfortable, and rightfully so. NOT because he thinks his wife may stray, but because this is allegedly supposed to be a wild and crazy 3 day party trip for single women.

OP suggests that the women will be up to no good (which is relative, of course) - and that's fine. His wife doesn't have to participate, or can hang back in a corner if she chooses, or go back to her hotel room.

But right from the get-go, she's the odd woman out. As I said in my reply a few pages back, if there were other married (or trustworthy) women going, then no big deal, IMO. But it's a bunch of single party girls and her.

Let's forego the "what ifs". I don't get the impression OP does not trust his wife, so I don't think that's what this post is truly about.

Rather, it's what is and what isn't appropriate within a marriage. Of course, there's nothing wrong with having fun with other people while you're married, but there's a very large grey area in what defines "fun". I think the general consensus is that something like this exact scenario isn't within most people's normal comfort zone - and the reasons for that vary.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Djkool said:


> I doubt its over. I wont bring it up again to her, but I'm sure when the bride finds out, $hit will hit the fan. Its still two or three months away and there will be much talk of it. I don't think I'll put up much of a fight. She already knows how I feel about it. If she goes, I'll probably get over it... maybe I wont.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Oh, she's going all right.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

WonkyNinja said:


> and according to this thread anyone who ever goes for a massage will get a happy ending whether they wanted one or not. :smile2:


Wait, WHAT?

Are you saying that there should be wives out there that should trust their husbands to go to a Korean hand job house because it's POSSIBLE to NOT get a "happy ending"?

Is that what you're comparing this to? Because if you go to Kim's Spa and DON'T leave happy, you're stupid. 

I used that analogy as a joke on an old "clubbing wife or no" thread. You were SERIOUS.


----------



## ConanHub

Cosmos said:


> You missed my meaning.
> 
> She's darned if she does (go) because it would upset her H.
> 
> She's darned if she doesn't (go) because she's still in the dog house for even _thinking _of going...


She is darned either way because of poor boundaries and her own hypocrisy.

She would not want her husband to do what she clearly thinks is ok for herself?

She can probably remove all of her H's disappointment in her by growing up a bit and getting rid of her double standard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Since these women are in their mid twenties their is a good chance they do not have the experience necessary to behave in an atmosphere such as Las Vegas. The mid twenties I know seem like babes in the woods. To themselves they think they know most everything.

Here's the first thing I saw when I googled batchlorette party infidelity.

" What happens during bachelor/bachelorette parties stays there. New research reveals that people really stretch the limit when it comes to taking advantage of their "last night of freedom" before everlasting commitment.

The latest study reveals that one in three "bachelors" and "bachelorettes" cheat on their partners during their freedom parties.
The survey also revealed that 92 percent of people who've cheated said they'd keep their secret affairs from their betrothed.
However, 74 percent ff the respondents who want to hide their indiscretions said they are worried that their friends or family would expose their lewd pre-nuptial behaviors.
Drunkenness was the top reason for infidelity, with 76 percent of respondents reporting that they were too drunk to handle the situation.
Other reasons of infidelity include having cold feet, feeling stressed, enjoying the free hall pass or relenting to peer pressure.
"I think it's no secret that when full of alcohol and banter, things can get out of hand on these events and one of these things is the issue of cheating," said a spokesperson for vouchercloud, who sponsored the survey, according to Daily Mail.
"Many people see this as their chance for a final fling before finally settling down. We were surprised to see that a good two thirds of the country remain faithful even in the excitement of their celebration," he said.
"Concerning the findings on strip clubs, it seems that those who partake in these are obviously well paid or manage their finances pretty well! An average spend of £120 per person is a large chunk of money from the pre-nuptial party budget," he concluded. "Let's hope it was worth it, and not something they regretted the next morning when they woke up with a sore head!""


----------



## Cosmos

ConanHub said:


> She is darned either way because of poor boundaries and her own hypocrisy.
> 
> She would not want her husband to do what she clearly thinks is ok for herself?
> 
> She can probably remove all of her H's disappointment in her by growing up a bit and getting rid of her double standard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't read where the OP said his W had poor boundaries, nor where he said that:-



> She would not want her husband to do what she clearly thinks is ok for herself?


Why do you think she's immature? She's not going on the trip and, from what I can gather, she's not sulking or pouting about it...

I'm not getting why posters seem so angry at the OP's W when she has clearly declined to go on the trip out of respect for the OP's feelings about it.


----------



## EllisRedding

Chaparral said:


> Since these women are in their mid twenties their is a good chance they do not have the experience necessary to behave in an atmosphere such as Las Vegas. The mid twenties I know seem like babes in the woods. To themselves they think they know most everything.
> 
> Here's the first thing I saw when I googled batchlorette party infidelity.
> 
> " What happens during bachelor/bachelorette parties stays there. New research reveals that people really stretch the limit when it comes to taking advantage of their "last night of freedom" before everlasting commitment.
> 
> The latest study reveals that one in three "bachelors" and "bachelorettes" cheat on their partners during their freedom parties.
> The survey also revealed that 92 percent of people who've cheated said they'd keep their secret affairs from their betrothed.
> However, 74 percent ff the respondents who want to hide their indiscretions said they are worried that their friends or family would expose their lewd pre-nuptial behaviors.
> Drunkenness was the top reason for infidelity, with 76 percent of respondents reporting that they were too drunk to handle the situation.
> Other reasons of infidelity include having cold feet, feeling stressed, enjoying the free hall pass or relenting to peer pressure.
> "I think it's no secret that when full of alcohol and banter, things can get out of hand on these events and one of these things is the issue of cheating," said a spokesperson for vouchercloud, who sponsored the survey, according to Daily Mail.
> "Many people see this as their chance for a final fling before finally settling down. We were surprised to see that a good two thirds of the country remain faithful even in the excitement of their celebration," he said.
> "Concerning the findings on strip clubs, it seems that those who partake in these are obviously well paid or manage their finances pretty well! An average spend of £120 per person is a large chunk of money from the pre-nuptial party budget," he concluded. "Let's hope it was worth it, and not something they regretted the next morning when they woke up with a sore head!""


If I am reading correct, this seems to only focus on the bachelor/bachelorette and not to the rest of the party?


----------



## naiveonedave

EllisRedding said:


> If I am reading correct, this seems to only focus on the bachelor/bachelorette and not to the rest of the party?


yes, but in my experience the other attendees behavior is on average worse.


----------



## samyeagar

> I doubt its over. I wont bring it up again to her, but *I'm sure when the bride finds out, $hit will hit the fan.* Its still two or three months away and there will be much talk of it. I don't think I'll put up much of a fight. She already knows how I feel about it. If she goes, I'll probably get over it... maybe I wont.


The fact that the bride would be likely to get angry over this as opposed to disappointed, but understanding shows a certain level of immaturity that is likely also not a good mix with Vegas.

OP, as well as you know your wife and the women she is going with, try and take emotion out of it and answer this as objectively as possible...it's highly unlikely your wife would actually have sex with someone, but just how far down that line would she go?


----------



## ConanHub

Cosmos said:


> I didn't read where the OP said his W had poor boundaries, nor where he said that:-
> 
> 
> _
> Why do you think she's immature? She's not going on the trip and, from what I can gather, she's not sulking or pouting about it..._
> 
> I'm not getting why posters seem so angry at the OP's W when she has cleared declined to go on the trip out of respect for the OP's feelings about it.


Clubbing and drunken dancing with a group of single women is immature for a married woman.

OP has stated that his wife would not like it if he were going on a similar trip to Vegas. This is an easy slam dunk and I am surprised at how many are missing her hypocrisy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## New_Beginnings

EllisRedding said:


> Chaparral said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since these women are in their mid twenties their is a good chance they do not have the experience necessary to behave in an atmosphere such as Las Vegas. The mid twenties I know seem like babes in the woods. To themselves they think they know most everything.
> 
> Here's the first thing I saw when I googled batchlorette party infidelity.
> 
> " What happens during bachelor/bachelorette parties stays there. New research reveals that people really stretch the limit when it comes to taking advantage of their "last night of freedom" before everlasting commitment.
> 
> The latest study reveals that one in three "bachelors" and "bachelorettes" cheat on their partners during their freedom parties.
> The survey also revealed that 92 percent of people who've cheated said they'd keep their secret affairs from their betrothed.
> However, 74 percent ff the respondents who want to hide their indiscretions said they are worried that their friends or family would expose their lewd pre-nuptial behaviors.
> Drunkenness was the top reason for infidelity, with 76 percent of respondents reporting that they were too drunk to handle the situation.
> Other reasons of infidelity include having cold feet, feeling stressed, enjoying the free hall pass or relenting to peer pressure.
> "I think it's no secret that when full of alcohol and banter, things can get out of hand on these events and one of these things is the issue of cheating," said a spokesperson for vouchercloud, who sponsored the survey, according to Daily Mail.
> "Many people see this as their chance for a final fling before finally settling down. We were surprised to see that a good two thirds of the country remain faithful even in the excitement of their celebration," he said.
> "Concerning the findings on strip clubs, it seems that those who partake in these are obviously well paid or manage their finances pretty well! An average spend of £120 per person is a large chunk of money from the pre-nuptial party budget," he concluded. "Let's hope it was worth it, and not something they regretted the next morning when they woke up with a sore head!""
> 
> 
> 
> If I am reading correct, this seems to only focus on the bachelor/bachelorette and not to the rest of the party?
Click to expand...

Pretty much and not to survey young married women. Only 50+ will understand. Or did I miss something?? Apparently younger women don't have morals and or take vows seriously. 

I'm 30. My husband and I have both cheated before having children. If I wanted a drunken orgy kind of night " in or out of Vegas" it would happen. People stop with location and stop acting as though you can't have self control period. 

Those of you spewing on how this will end (negatively) and or envision temptation, if you can't control yourself then you stay away from Vegas. Matter of fact, don't pick up a drink and or be in places where you feel tempted. To claim that's on everyone's mind is ignorant and to generalize isn't the best argument.


----------



## Cosmos

ConanHub said:


> Clubbing and drunken dancing with a group of single women is immature for a married woman.
> 
> OP has stated that his wife would not like it if he were going on a similar trip to Vegas. This is an easy slam dunk and I am surprised at how many are missing her hypocrisy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_
I've already stated that this isn't something I would do or be happy with my SO doing. 
_
I can't be bothered looking for the post where the OP said:-



> OP has stated that his wife would not like it if he were going on a similar trip to Vegas. This is an easy slam dunk and I am surprised at how many are missing her hypocrisy.


But if she did, yet expected to go on a trip herself, then she is indeed hypocritical.

The point is, though, _she is not going on the trip!_


----------



## ConanHub

New_Beginnings said:


> Pretty much and not to survey young married women. Only 50+ will understand. Or did I miss something?? Apparently younger women don't have morals and or take vows seriously.
> 
> I'm 30. My husband and I have both cheated before having children. If I wanted a drunken orgy kind of night " in or out of Vegas" it would happen. People stop with location and stop acting as though you can't have self control period.
> 
> Those of you spewing on how this will end (negatively) and or envision temptation, if you can't control yourself then you stay away from Vegas. Matter of fact, don't pick up a drink and or be in places where you feel tempted. To claim that's on everyone's mind is ignorant and to generalize isn't the best argument.


You are possibly out of touch with reality to not get the gist of married, or soon to be, women going to a three day drunken clubbing dance fest with a bunch of young single women.

I agree about the behavior in general. I would not consider a woman for marriage who still desired to go clubbing like she was single.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## New_Beginnings

ConanHub said:


> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read where the OP said his W had poor boundaries, nor where he said that:-
> 
> 
> _
> Why do you think she's immature? She's not going on the trip and, from what I can gather, she's not sulking or pouting about it..._
> 
> I'm not getting why posters seem so angry at the OP's W when she has cleared declined to go on the trip out of respect for the OP's feelings about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Clubbing and drunken dancing with a group of single women is immature for a married woman.
> 
> OP has stated that his wife would not like it if he were going on a similar trip to Vegas. This is an easy slam dunk and I am surprised at how many are missing her hypocrisy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


Apparently she wanted to be apart of her cousin's bachorlette and doesn't mean she was going to pretend she's single. 

A talk could of cleared up feelings and didn't have to resort into arguments. It's obvious his imagination got the best of him or else there wouldn't have been arguing on discussing this trip. 

She would've seen his concerns addressed them and out of knowing he's uncomfortable chosen not to go, She would also tell her cousin she wouldn't be in attendance and not make him out to be her excuse. If she tells her cousin "he's the reason she can't go and or he feels uncomfortable", then that's telling of how bad this discussion between the two of them actually went.


----------



## ConanHub

Cosmos said:


> _
> I've already stated that this isn't something I would do or be happy with my SO doing.
> _
> I can't be bothered looking for the post where the OP said:-
> 
> 
> 
> But if she did, yet expected to go on a trip herself, then she is indeed hypocritical.
> 
> The point is, though, _she is not going on the trip!_


I'm aware of that. Would you be disappointed if your SO were a hypocrite?

I'm pretty sure that is OP's issue.

He maybe wants a wife that holds herself to the same boundaries she would like for her husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

New_Beginnings said:


> Pretty much and not to survey young married women. Only 50+ will understand. Or did I miss something?? Apparently younger women don't have morals and or take vows seriously.
> 
> I'm 30. My husband and I have both cheated before having children. If I wanted a drunken orgy kind of night " in or out of Vegas" it would happen. People stop with location and stop acting as though you can't have self control period.
> 
> *Those of you spewing on how this will end (negatively) and or envision temptation, if you can't control yourself then you stay away from Vegas. Matter of fact, don't pick up a drink and or be in places where you feel tempted. To claim that's on everyone's mind is ignorant and to generalize isn't the best argument.*


People have a baseline in what they will and won't do. Add varying factors in will alter that baseline either making it less likely for them to do something, or more likely to do something. No one can foresee all the factors at play, so there has to be some assumption of the unexpected.

Most people who find themselves in bad situations didn't go actively looking for it. They assumed they could handle it, the alcohol, the peer pressure, the sexually charged atmosphere, the reputation of the location, and then find themselves in over their head.


----------



## New_Beginnings

ConanHub said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much and not to survey young married women. Only 50+ will understand. Or did I miss something?? Apparently younger women don't have morals and or take vows seriously.
> 
> I'm 30. My husband and I have both cheated before having children. If I wanted a drunken orgy kind of night " in or out of Vegas" it would happen. People stop with location and stop acting as though you can't have self control period.
> 
> Those of you spewing on how this will end (negatively) and or envision temptation, if you can't control yourself then you stay away from Vegas. Matter of fact, don't pick up a drink and or be in places where you feel tempted. To claim that's on everyone's mind is ignorant and to generalize isn't the best argument.
> 
> 
> 
> You are possibly out of touch with reality to not get the gist of married, or soon to be, women going to a three day drunken clubbing dance fest with a bunch of young single women.
> 
> I agree about the behavior in general. I would not consider a woman for marriage who still desired to go clubbing like she was single.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


That's what doesn't make sense, if she didn't like what was going to be happening then she wouldn't have planned on going. 

I wouldn't go dancing without my husband either but the OP stated on occasion she does go out (girls night) with these women. She may not understand the boundary as its ok for girls night (in town) and this is suppose to be celebrating her cousin getting married. That's just speculating talk but if this is a problem sounds like more boundaries need to be made and not just with the Vegas trip.


----------



## New_Beginnings

samyeagar said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much and not to survey young married women. Only 50+ will understand. Or did I miss something?? Apparently younger women don't have morals and or take vows seriously.
> 
> I'm 30. My husband and I have both cheated before having children. If I wanted a drunken orgy kind of night " in or out of Vegas" it would happen. People stop with location and stop acting as though you can't have self control period.
> 
> *Those of you spewing on how this will end (negatively) and or envision temptation, if you can't control yourself then you stay away from Vegas. Matter of fact, don't pick up a drink and or be in places where you feel tempted. To claim that's on everyone's mind is ignorant and to generalize isn't the best argument.*
> 
> 
> 
> People have a baseline in what they will and won't do. Add varying factors in will alter that baseline either making it less likely for them to do something, or more likely to do something. No one can foresee all the factors at play, so there has to be some assumption of the unexpected.
> 
> Most people who find themselves in bad situations didn't go actively looking for it. They assumed they could handle it, the alcohol, the peer pressure, the sexually charged atmosphere, the reputation of the location, and then find themselves in over their head.
Click to expand...


That's true. I see in this OP situation that having boundaries is pretty unclear to what they truly are. If Vegas is out, why would a male stripper and or one drunken night in town be ok? There's a fine line and looks like he's dancing with both sides.


----------



## Cosmos

ConanHub said:


> I'm aware of that. Would you be disappointed if your SO were a hypocrite?
> 
> I'm pretty sure that is OP's issue.
> 
> He maybe wants a wife that holds herself to the same boundaries she would like for her husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No I wouldn't be disappointed, I would be _staggered_. The man is perfection personified.

She would have been a hypocrite if she'd kicked up a fuss about going or had she actually gone...


----------



## ConanHub

Djkool said:


> She did say she understood, and probably wouldn't feel that great if I was doing the same thing (which I would not
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## naiveonedave

in the OPs last post, he pretty much stated that the matter is not 100% settled, as the event is 3 months out yet.


----------



## New_Beginnings

If it's not settled she is unaware where the boundaries are. I would be too, if my husband said "hey a girls night out at a club here is ok. A stripper is ok but Veags out". I mean I see a pretty obvious argument. It's ok here? But not ok there? Hmm.. Maybe it shouldn't be ok at all, follow?


----------



## naiveonedave

New_Beginnings said:


> If it's not settled she is unaware where the boundaries are. I would be too, if my husband said "hey a girls night out at a club here is ok. A stripper is ok but Veags out". I mean I see a pretty obvious argument. It's ok here? But not ok there? Hmm.. Maybe it shouldn't be ok at all, follow?


actually, no I don't follow you. I get the OP. 3 drunken nights in LV with 7 single, apparently sl***y women is out of bounds. GNO in the same town where they live is OK. He understands what his boundaries are, irrelevant if you are okay with them or not.

It is not clear that she is or is not going, yet.


----------



## straightshooter

OP,

Ultimately, you are going to have to digest all this conflicting advice and make your own decision. none of us, and neither do you, have any idea what will happen if she goes or what her behavior will be.

From your description of this group though, I do not see how anyone can doubt that once the booze gets flowing and the sharks start circling that her friends will not encourage her not to be a wall flower and to "have some fun". 

And that is where the confusion comes in. We are all different and all have different boundaries on what is acceptable or not. there are some men on here who are fine and have no problem with their wives flirting, dancing, and having other men buy them drinks all night. there are other men who that is not acceptable to. there are women on here who have no problem with their husbands going to strip clubs or to guys week end where all the men act like teenagers, and there are women on here who would not like that.

The bottom line is
(1) you know who is going
(2) you know what they plan on doing
(3) you know that your wife will be in an environment for three days with virtually no accountability for her actions or behavior, and that even if she does not cheat there is a very good chance there will be stuff going on she would not want you to see and will certainly not tell you.
(4)you know you have expressed calmly to her that you are not comfortable with it

This thread can go on and on for weeks and ultimately it still all boils down to yours and her communication and respect for each others feelings. none of us posting has to live with the results so our personal experience does not mean crap to your situation.

This stuff about if you trust your wife she should go is a bunch of crap. go read any infidelity forum you want to and 99% of the betrayed men and women would make the same statement about trust. they all trusted their spouse. and if you read any forum where WW post, read how many start out with 

"I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD CHEAT ON MY HUSBAND OR WIFE"

Only point is do not fall into this trap that just because you are not comfortable with this it makes you some sort of controlling chauvanist pig. And i WOULD be concerned if your wife is not as enthusiastic about going out with these same women to dinner at home or to hang out having some drinks at someones house. Unless you have totally misread this group, this is the stereotype that you read about if you google it and why she is so excitede about attending it is something she should be able to calmly explan to you.


----------



## EllisRedding

OliviaG said:


> I guess I feel that I *have* thought about it from that perspective because my husband had a tradition of doing something similar with his buddies *(guys' weekend - hard partying and strip clubs) every year. I never objected or worried about it at all. *I figured it was a "male bonding ritual" and was important to him. Now this was 2 nights, not 3 nights, but I don't think that's material. It wasn't Vegas, but I wouldn't have cared if it was. Some of the guys were single, some married. They probably said and did a lot of stuff that I'm glad I didn't have to witness, but I'm sure my husband did not cheat. If he did, I'll never know, but I really am not worried that he did. I know him and I have always felt pretty confident in the strength of our relationship. I guess if I felt he was unhappy with our marriage or if he was complaining about not getting enough sex or if he had no boundaries when he was drinking, then I would have objected. But that was never the case. I trusted him.


Interesting. Not knocking you at all, I wonder though how many people are actually ok with the bolded in their marriage? As well, going with the "less I know the better" approach?

Trying to think from my wife's POV, she absolutely trusts me (sounds similar to you) so I could see her saying she was ok with it so as to not sound controlling or having trust issues, but secretly it would bother her and at some point I am sure it would come back to bite me in the ass. Then again, I have zero interest in strip clubs (I honestly don't understand the appeal unless you are hoping for a happy ending and maybe a shiny new STD, otherwise if you want to be sexually frustrated just get married  ). If the role was reversed and she wanted to go hard partying/strip club she would be more than welcomed to, but I would make it clear she would be coming home to changed locks so happy house hunting  I absolutely trust her but IMO this is pushing beyond the boundaries of marriage at least as it relates specifically to my marriage.


----------



## New_Beginnings

naiveonedave said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it's not settled she is unaware where the boundaries are. I would be too, if my husband said "hey a girls night out at a club here is ok. A stripper is ok but Veags out". I mean I see a pretty obvious argument. It's ok here? But not ok there? Hmm.. Maybe it shouldn't be ok at all, follow?
> 
> 
> 
> actually, no I don't follow you. I get the OP. 3 drunken nights in LV with 7 single, apparently sl***y women is out of bounds. GNO in the same town where they live is OK. He understands what his boundaries are, irrelevant if you are okay with them or not.
> 
> It is not clear that she is or is not going, yet.
Click to expand...


Well yeah apparently girls like that are ok to hangout in her town, you're right you both make sense!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

OP, here's a question.

Why do these women bother you, has your wife told you stories about their GNOs.


----------



## Cosmos

*Question for the OP:-*

OP, has your W said whether or not she's going on this trip?


----------



## EllisRedding

phillybeffandswiss said:


> OP, here's a question.
> 
> Why do these women bother you, has your wife told you stories about their GNOs.


He is sleeping with one of them...

OK, COMPLETELY JOKING, but you gotta admit that would make an awesome plot twist to this thread >


----------



## samyeagar

New_Beginnings said:


> Well yeah apparently girls like that are ok to hangout in her town, you're right you both make sense!


You'd be amazed at how something as simple as proximity can affect a persons behavior both consciously and subconsciously.


----------



## eastsouth2000

Ugh why are you not going with her? she is your wife after all not your girlfriend. Things like this done alone is what singles do not married couple. married couple do things together.

This isn't like a saturday night out with friends. Its a Vegas Vacation.


----------



## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> She is darned if she goes because it would seriously upset her husband.
> 
> She is darned if she does not go because he is very upset with her for even wanting to go.


As long as he's not berating her over it there shouldn't be a problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

eastsouth2000 said:


> Ugh why are you not going with her? she is your wife after all not your girlfriend. Things like this done alone is what singles do not married couple. married couple do things together.


Do you see how mad some women are getting now? I mean some are actively making things up to drive home their point. Do you honestly think being a chaperone would make it better?


> This isn't like a saturday night out with friends. Its a Vegas Vacation.


I see you caught new beginnings sarcastic comparison as well. 3 day bender vs. a few hours out are not in the same realm. Yes, I know, I'll minimize myself..... "but, you can cheat anywhere." 



Trap is set.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

New Beginnings... Did I read your post right that both you AND your husband cheated before you had kids?


----------



## New_Beginnings

Blossom Leigh said:


> New Beginnings... Did I read your post right that both you AND your husband cheated before you had kids?


Yes, my oldest child came before us getting married. I didn't have respect for myself and vice versa, very immature relationship we had. Our first child changed our selfish ways. You can't change the past but you can rebuild trust and work to have a mutual understanding. We have come a long way.

My sister is having a bachorlette this March as well. She was going to do Vegas, I talked it over with my husband and we both shared our concerns. After our talk, he said he trusts me and appreciated me thinking of only flying in for 1night, not entire weekend (Saturday and come home next day). I ultimately changed my mind and for me, flight plus hotel then environment that I could care less about it's not worth the money spent. He didn't ask me to change my mind though.


----------



## OpenWindows

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Do you see how mad some women are getting now? I mean some are actively making things up to drive home their point.


I must have missed something here... Who/what are you referring to about making things up?


----------



## naiveonedave

@New_Beginnings so your H has different boundaries than the OP. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

OpenWindows said:


> I must have missed something here...


 Maybe you did or maybe you see it differently.


> Who/what are you referring to about making things up?


Some of the women and some of their examples.


----------



## New_Beginnings

naiveonedave said:


> @New_Beginnings so your H has different boundaries than the OP. Nothing wrong with that.


Not at all and I agree.

The reason his wife is unclear about possibly going or not is their discussion wasn't a settled one. That's all I'm really speaking on for his situation. 

If he's sharing with his wife an in town girls drunken night is ok, she might be annoyed about the difference in another location and with it being her cousin. I see the 3 days as a big difference but it's a matter of how he's approaching his thoughts in the conversation. Is it coming across as accusations ect? I would be more upset if I'm being accused or if his imagination has grown wild and he's calling my friends out their names.


----------



## samyeagar

OliviaG said:


> Here's the thing. My husband has zero interest in strip clubs too. He would find anyone dancing in a strip club to be nasty - I know the guy. He wasn't there for the strippers, he was there to keep up the tradition with the guys, a tradition they started in college. Other than that weekend once per year, he never set foot in a strip club or expressed a desire to do so.
> 
> A few years after we got married these weekends just stopped. I don't actually know why, but I think the guys all just got to an age where they felt ridiculous doing that. I'm really glad I didn't put a stop to him going, because then there always would have been some residual resentment from him about it. He would have felt like he missed out on some harmless fun with his buddies because of me. He would have heard the stories of what he had missed, (and the stories are always much more overblown than the reality of what went on, IME), and resented me for missing out. The way things happened, the tradition came to its natural ending without any interference from me, and there were no bad feelings between us about it.
> 
> Also, if I had stopped him from going, he might have wanted to stop me from doing something harmless that I wanted to do, just because it's human nature to try to keep things "even" in a relationship. I'm sure he would have said he didn't want me doing something that he didn't even care about, just to get back at me, which would have p!ssed me off royally. And that's not a dynamic that I want to introduce in my marriage.
> 
> I don't really have a "the less I know the better" approach. I just hate being around people when they're drinking too much. A few drinks is fine and I find fun, but drinking to get drunk: I hate it. I'm glad he could get that out of his system without me having to listen to the ludicrous conversations that would have been going on, etc.. And I HATE looking after anyone who is drunk. It's a massive turn-off to me to see my guy inebriated. So if he's going to drink to excess I don't want to witness it.


I understand that resentments and evening the score are natural human tendencies, but I think part of truly accepting and respecting your partners boundaries is owning your decision to respect them, and not feeling resentment, or trying to even the score.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

New_Beginnings said:


> Yes, my oldest child came before us getting married. I didn't have respect for myself and vice versa, very immature relationship we had. Our first child changed our selfish ways. You can't change the past but you can rebuild trust and work to have a mutual understanding. We have come a long way.
> 
> My sister is having a bachorlette this March as well. She was going to do Vegas, I talked it over with my husband and we both shared our concerns. After our talk, he said he trusts me and appreciated me thinking of only flying in for 1night, not entire weekend (Saturday and come home next day). I ultimately changed my mind and for me, flight plus hotel then environment that I could care less about it's not worth the money spent. He didn't ask me to change my mind though.


I'm glad to hear the changes being made. Cheating is so destructive. Bravo to you both for putting the effort in post cheating, its not an easy choice or road. 

Truly, this husband does not sound unreasonable in his concerns. Just like you guys expressed your concerns to each other about a similar situation. It was just surprising me that you are arguing "for" her to go and accept that additional risk to her marriage being that you've been through the boundary issue that surrounds infidelity yourself. Yes, some can go and have strong enough boundaries. I've grown to that degree myself. My H would trust me in that situation. But, I would not necessarily put myself there.

If your main argument is that he shouldn't tell her not to go, I can see "some" merit in that since I come from a background of abuse, but I also love the rare moments when my husband protects me from myself. I had a guy zero in on me so hard and so fast a few years ago that it rattled me to the bone because I knew if this guy set his mind to "having me" he would stop at nothing. I did not know if I could stand under that level of pressure, so I RAN to my husband and shared my vulnerability with him and together we walked through it. So, there is a time and place for a husband to protect "for" his wife. And there can be sweet intimacy if the wife is wise enough to allow it. 

My ex never protected me from his friends when it was warranted and it made me feel that he didn't care. I was luckily able to stand for myself, but his lack of ability to call his friends out as being inappropriate towards me was not good in the long run for us. Left me feeling like a fence post anyone could hang their hat on. So, the hands off, don't tell me what to do can go too far the other way as well.


----------



## New_Beginnings

Blossom Leigh said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, my oldest child came before us getting married. I didn't have respect for myself and vice versa, very immature relationship we had. Our first child changed our selfish ways. You can't change the past but you can rebuild trust and work to have a mutual understanding. We have come a long way.
> 
> My sister is having a bachorlette this March as well. She was going to do Vegas, I talked it over with my husband and we both shared our concerns. After our talk, he said he trusts me and appreciated me thinking of only flying in for 1night, not entire weekend (Saturday and come home next day). I ultimately changed my mind and for me, flight plus hotel then environment that I could care less about it's not worth the money spent. He didn't ask me to change my mind though.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad to hear the changes being made. Cheating is so destructive. Bravo to you both for putting the effort in post cheating, its not an easy choice or road.
> 
> Truly, this husband does not sound unreasonable in his concerns. Just like you guys expressed your concerns to each other about a similar situation. It was just surprising me that you are arguing "for" her to go and accept that additional risk to her marriage being that you've been through the boundary issue that surrounds infidelity yourself. Yes, some can go and have strong enough boundaries. I've grown to that degree myself. My H would trust me in that situation. But, I would not necessarily put myself there.
> 
> If your main argument is that he shouldn't tell her not to go, I can see "some" merit in that since I come from a background of abuse, but I also love the rare moments when my husband protects me from myself. I had a guy zero in on me so hard and so fast a few years ago that it rattled me to the bone because I knew if this guy set his mind to "having me" he would stop at nothing. I did not know if I could stand under that level of pressure, so I RAN to my husband and shared my vulnerability with him and together we walked through it. So, there is a time and place for a husband to protect "for" his wife. And there can be sweet intimacy if the wife is wise enough to allow it.
> 
> My ex never protected me from his friends when it was warranted and it made me feel that he didn't care. I was luckily able to stand for myself, but his lack of ability to call his friends out as being inappropriate towards me was not good in the long run for us. Left me feeling like a fence post anyone could hang their hat on. So, the hands off, don't tell me what to do can go too far the other way as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm not saying, give her a kiss and be like hey enjoy yourselves at the club lol. I personally wouldn't want to be in a place like that for 3days (if that's what they're doing). 

I do believe he could have a honest conversation without either getting upset. He already made comments about "her friends". If my husband thought I had trashy friends, I wouldn't disrespect my husband by being around those kinds of women period. It's ok to outgrow friendships and be in other places in life. It wouldn't take Vegas to realize these aren't the kinds of women I want to be surrounded by. 

I do believe she could come to her own realization about not going. If she is approached the right way and possibly think if her friendship with these girls (if they're trashy) is worth it. I'd start distancing myself from women who act in a less appealing manner out of respect for myself (not wanting to be categorized same) and for my husband. I wouldn't feel comfortable if my husband hung around trashy men. If I knew the character of the men, location wouldn't be an issue the 3days would though.


----------



## VirgenTecate

OliviaG said:


> In a perfect world, yes, I agree with you.


I understand your point and many humans will fail that test, but I think marriage is the ultimate test of our moral fortitude. 

We should strive to respect our partner's boundaries because we respect them and want to be the person worthy of keeping our promise to love and cherish them.

Just as we would want them to cherish our boundaries as well. 

Will we feel resentment at times? Yes. But we communicate and work through it.

We do not use it as an excuse for immoral behavior.


----------



## straightshooter

*Yeah I'm not saying, give her a kiss and be like hey enjoy yourselves at the club lol. I personally wouldn't want to be in a place like that for 3days (if that's what they're doing). 

I do believe he could have a honest conversation without either getting upset. He already made comments about "her friends". If my husband thought I had trashy friends, I wouldn't disrespect my husband by being around those kinds of women period. It's ok to outgrow friendships and be in other places in life. It wouldn't take Vegas to realize these aren't the kinds of women I want to be surrounded by. 

I do believe she could come to her own realization about not going. If she is approached the right way and possibly think if her friendship with these girls (if they're trashy) is worth it. I'd start distancing myself from women who act in a less appealing manner out of respect for myself (not wanting to be categorized same) and for my husband. I wouldn't feel comfortable if my husband hung around trashy men. If I knew the character of the men, location wouldn't be an issue the 3days would though.*

Excellent point, but apparently OP's wife has not seen it like that. you stated you would not want to be in that situation and would reconsider these friendships if these friends were set on or did behave inappropriately. 

OP's wife has not taken your attitude. Her attitude and excitement at wanting to be in this environment with this group i what has him alarmed and uncomfortable. That is why I do not understand those advocating that she just go whether he likes it or not and tell him its too bad.In other words, Im doing exactly what i want and i dont care.


----------



## soccermom2three

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Do you see how mad some women are getting now? I mean some are actively making things up to drive home their point.t.



Lol, Someone actually making something up about others making something up.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Blossom Leigh said:


> If your main argument is that he shouldn't tell her not to go, I can see "some" merit in that since I come from a background of abuse, but I also love the rare moments when my husband protects me from myself. I had a guy zero in on me so hard and so fast a few years ago that it rattled me to the bone because I knew if this guy set his mind to "having me" he would stop at nothing. I did not know if I could stand under that level of pressure, so I RAN to my husband and shared my vulnerability with him and together we walked through it. So, there is a time and place for a husband to protect "for" his wife. And there can be sweet intimacy if the wife is wise enough to allow it.
> 
> My ex never protected me from his friends when it was warranted and it made me feel that he didn't care. I was luckily able to stand for myself, but his lack of ability to call his friends out as being inappropriate towards me was not good in the long run for us. Left me feeling like a fence post anyone could hang their hat on. So, the hands off, don't tell me what to do can go too far the other way as well.


That's the difference between an H being controlling over his W and an H being the rock she knows she can lean on without judgement.

The latter is the partner in the partnership and the former really isn't a partnership.

I'm pleased for you that you found the latter after a background of abuse.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

soccermom2three said:


> Lol, Someone actually making something up about others making something up.


LOL. If this makes you feel better, I am happy for you.


----------



## Cosmos

> Originally Posted by phillybeffandswiss
> Do you see how mad some women are getting now? I mean some are actively making things up to drive home their point.t.





soccermom2three said:


> Lol, Someone actually making something up about others making something up.


Actually, the only people who seem to be getting "mad" here are a few of the men. One has already had to be warned by a mod to refrain from calling women skanks and party w5ores...


----------



## Satya

Personally, I am not a fan of Vegas style Bachelorette parties. If I was invited, I would be the wet rag that doesn't go. Just not interested. The kinds of Bachelorette parties I like are the ones where you go over someone's house, bring wine, watch Chick flicks, wear your Hoodie-Footie jammies, eat popcorn, and no men are allowed unless they're the pizza delivery guy.


----------



## Cosmos

Satya said:


> Personally, I am not a fan of Vegas style Bachelorette parties. If I was invited, I would be the wet rag that doesn't go. Just not interested. The kinds of Bachelorette parties I like are the ones where you go over someone's house, bring wine, watch Chick flicks, wear your Hoodie-Footie jammies, eat popcorn, and no men are allowed unless they're the pizza delivery guy.


Sounds good 

Or if one wants something a little fancier - dinner and the theatre.


----------



## VirgenTecate

Why are bachelor/bachelorette parties that revolve around sexual stimulation a socially acceptable thing? 

Honestly, I just want to know.

It seems strange that one would want to start his or her marriage that way by entertaining thoughts of someone else.


----------



## OpenWindows

The last bachelorette party I went to was a total of five women, at a local bar. We drank (except for the driver), talked, and played pool. Apparently no man there was brave enough to approach our group, because we were left alone. It was a lot of fun!

I promise I didn't make that up.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

VirgenTecate said:


> Why are bachelor/bachelorette parties that revolve around sexual stimulation a socially acceptable thing?
> 
> Honestly, I just want to know.
> 
> It seems strange that one would want to start his or her marriage that way by entertaining thoughts of someone else.


Brilliant question


----------



## Be smart

If my girlfriend/wife tells me she is not comfortable with my going to B. Party to the Amsterdam or Paris then I would decline the offer. I expect the same from her. 

I can spare some money and take time off the job so we could enjoy ourself together. 

Back ti strip clubs. My place is not there. I used to go there when I was in UNI,because everyone talked about it,so much hype and stuff like that. Never used to drink alcohol and I saw young,old people getting smashed and doing things which they will regret tomorrow. I am speaking about males and females.

This has nothing to do with the trust. My opinion is that married people should not go there separately 

If I really want to see some nice dance,naked flash or something like that,then I talk with my Lady


----------



## jdawg2015

OpenWindows said:


> This thread is starting to make me wonder if I'm past my prime...
> 
> I've always thought I'm a good-looking woman, but when I go out with my friends, guys aren't swarming me, grinding me on the dance floor, and buying me drinks. It's more like me laughing at silly college-age people doing that stuff. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm having a lot of trouble relating to the GNO experiences and behaviors people are describing here.
> 
> Maybe hot young women get hit on in the clubs, and 30-year-old moms get hit on in the supermarket! I wonder if that means it's safe for me to go to Vegas? :wink2:


Maybe you aren't going to the RIGHT bars:grin2:

But in reality, there is some truth about being past are certain prime.

When I was newly married, both my ex wife and I were very young. No way either would have been ok with either going to a strip club.

After 10-15 years of marriage and you really understand each others character and full trust, I would have had no issue if she went to Vegas like in the OPs case. So maturing both internally and in a marriage can evolve. But in any case neither of us were the type to do such things. In fact, every trip I took to Vegas for work conferences, my ex W went with me...

In your case I suspect you've probably been married much longer, and your view and trust on these things can we way different than in your 20s when you may have only recently left your partying days behind you.

Think about this.... how many people met their spouse in a bar?

So, having rambled on enough, I think OP is got a vibe. Even if he is insecure I do give his wife credit as she respected him enough to not go on a trip that would make him uncomfortable.


----------



## EleGirl

Satya said:


> Personally, I am not a fan of Vegas style Bachelorette parties. If I was invited, I would be the wet rag that doesn't go. Just not interested. The kinds of Bachelorette parties I like are the ones where you go over someone's house, bring wine, watch Chick flicks, wear your Hoodie-Footie jammies, eat popcorn, and *no men are allowed unless they're the pizza delivery guy*.


Is he the stripper >

(jk)


----------



## EleGirl

VirgenTecate said:


> Why are bachelor/bachelorette parties that revolve around sexual stimulation a socially acceptable thing?
> 
> Honestly, I just want to know.
> 
> It seems strange that one would want to start his or her marriage that way by entertaining thoughts of someone else.


It used to be a very common thing for men to do right before they married.

So more recently, it seems that some women decided what is good for the men is good for them.


----------



## samyeagar

EleGirl said:


> It used to be a very common thing for men to do right before they married.
> 
> So more recently, it seems that some women decided what is good for the men is good for them.


So back to the original question...



> Why are bachelor/bachelorette parties that revolve around sexual stimulation a socially acceptable thing?
> 
> 
> Honestly, I just want to know.
> 
> It seems strange that one would want to start his or her marriage that way by entertaining thoughts of someone else.


----------



## EleGirl

Traditionally, it was the last chance a guy had to act like a single guy.. which included partying like a single guy with lose women.

Bachelor parties are thought to date back as far as the 5th century BC in Sparta, when soldiers would host a dinner in honor of a comrade's wedding. Now before images of 300-esque men in loincloth-clad revelry roll through your mind, the event was actually a very low-key affair.

It wasn't until the Victorian age that bachelor parties even became associated with the "get it while you still can" mentality. In those times, men wanted a night to bid farewell to friends the wife may not approve of once the vows were said. Thus the seeds were sown that eventually would grow into the modern day festivity of engaging in "last chance" acts. 

Bachelorette parties, on the other hand, didn't come into the public sphere until the 1960s when the women's rights movement was knocking down the door of every male-only tradition. The parties first began as a scandalous upgrade to the bridal shower, in which female friends would give the bride "embarrassing" gifts such as lingerie. Then in the '80s and '90s, it escalated to rival the men's version thanks to the addition of male strippers and glow-in-the-dark penis necklaces.


----------



## VirgenTecate

EleGirl said:


> Traditionally, it was the last chance a guy had to act like a single guy.. which included partying like a single guy with lose women.
> 
> Bachelor parties are thought to date back as far as the 5th century BC in Sparta, when soldiers would host a dinner in honor of a comrade's wedding. Now before images of 300-esque men in loincloth-clad revelry roll through your mind, the event was actually a very low-key affair.
> 
> It wasn't until the Victorian age that bachelor parties even became associated with the "get it while you still can" mentality. In those times, men wanted a night to bid farewell to friends the wife may not approve of once the vows were said. Thus the seeds were sown that eventually would grow into the modern day festivity of engaging in "last chance" acts.
> 
> Bachelorette parties, on the other hand, didn't come into the public sphere until the 1960s when the women's rights movement was knocking down the door of every male-only tradition. The parties first began as a scandalous upgrade to the bridal shower, in which female friends would give the bride "embarrassing" gifts such as lingerie. Then in the '80s and '90s, it escalated to rival the men's version thanks to the addition of male strippers and glow-in-the-dark penis necklaces.


I understand the development of both sexes having the tradition. But it was interesting so thank you 

I guess I just mean in today's modern age marriage can be for love and commitment. I find it difficult to reconcile the depth of moral courage and stamina it takes to be in a marriage of love with the behavior expected in a bachelor/bachelorette party.


----------



## OpenWindows

VirgenTecate said:


> I understand the development of both sexes having the tradition. But it was interesting so thank you
> 
> I guess I just mean in today's modern age marriage can be for love and commitment. I find it difficult to reconcile the depth of moral courage and stamina it takes to be in a marriage of love with the behavior expected in a bachelor/bachelorette party.


Maybe that's why some people are moving away from the wild bachelor/ette parties. A lot of people hold a much tamer version, we've heard about a few of them here. While there certainly are some wild and crazy parties, I believe that at least half are more like some friends having a few drinks and hanging out, maybe with some glow in the dark penis necklaces. We just don't make movies about those, so we don't hear about them as much.


----------



## WonkyNinja

EleGirl said:


> Bachelorette parties, on the other hand, didn't come into the public sphere until the 1960s when the women's rights movement was knocking down the door of every male-only tradition. The parties first began as a scandalous upgrade to the bridal shower, in which female friends would give the bride "embarrassing" gifts such as lingerie. Then in the '80s and '90s, it escalated to rival the men's version thanks to the addition of male strippers and glow-in-the-dark penis necklaces.


Maybe that is what scares the men so much. It is just one more thing where women are showing that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

When MMCoy started his name calling of the groups of women it was because they were in a situation behaving like groups of men traditionally would in that same situation.

Isn't a woman determined to be a slvt when she shows that she has the same sexual desires as a "normal" man? Slvt shaming at the school level is done towards girls who behave as boys are expected to.


----------



## samyeagar

OliviaG said:


> Bullseye.


And that gets to the heart of peer pressure, or more accurately, societal pressure.

Going hand in hand with the idea that what was once good for the gander is now good for the goose is the idea that the goose no longer has to accept that behavior from the gander.

Where people fall down is when they allow themselves to be influenced by society over their partner. It's all fine and dandy to say that men have been doing this for centuries, and that women are simply catching up, but so what. I haven't. My partner didn't choose everyone else to be with. She chose me, and my feelings should trump all.

So what it boils don to as to why this is a good idea...well, that question is ultimately only answerable by the couple.


----------



## OpenWindows

The peer pressure\society thing is an interesting point. A lot of women would feel bad telling a guy not to go to a bachelor party... they would feel like there were being controlling, hen-pecking, paranoid, etc. But it doesn't seem like most men have the same issue with telling their women not to go. There seems to be less guilt involved for them.


----------



## Cosmos

VirgenTecate said:


> Why are bachelor/bachelorette parties that revolve around sexual stimulation a socially acceptable thing?
> 
> Honestly, I just want to know.
> 
> It seems strange that one would want to start his or her marriage that way by entertaining thoughts of someone else.


I don't believe they are or should be and, personally, I can't imagine marrying someone who had the need to bid farewell to their single life in this manner...

However, there are some men who probably wouldn't be objecting to them _quite_ so loudly if this were still a male only custom...


----------



## alexm

I don't quite "get" them, either. TBH, my bachelor party was the first I ever attended that involved a strip joint. Any others I took part in involved golf or other "manly" activities.

My (now) B-I-L was the organizer of my affair. He was mid-30's, single (and proud of it) and a bit of a dog. He was the emcee at our wedding. My 3 groomsmen were married or in LTRs, and my best man was single, but a respectful gentleman. In other words, only my B-I-L was stoked about the prospects of the bachelor party.

The rest of us tried to politely sway him away from the stereotypical bachelor party, but to no avail, and thus, the 5 of us basically went along for the ride.

More than one stripper called us "boring", to which the rest of us, B-I-L not included, were more than happy to agree with. It actually got to the point where we started to fear for our safety towards the end of the night, as some of the strippers were NOT happy that, out of a group of 6 men, 5 were not spending any money, other than on drinks. And they were clearly telling the floor managers/bouncers this. We got death glares from a few of the large men who worked there.

Now, we have some funny stories about the evening, and TBH, it WAS fun. Every time a new girl would approach us, the 5 of us would inform her that it was my B-I-L's bachelor party, so she'd set her targets on him. Luckily, we knew he'd actually spend some money (he did... sigh...) or otherwise we might not have made it out of that place with all our teeth. But the rest of us sat back and watched the fireworks, shot the s**t, and otherwise messed with my B-I-L or the girls a little bit. It helped that one of my groomsmen is a smooth-talker with a British accent, as he was able to diffuse more than one situation over the course of the night...

I'd rather have gone golfing, though.

Which reminds me of a funny bachelor party story - my wife's cousin and his friends got kicked off the golf course they were playing for drunken rowdiness and golf cart shenanigans. The day before his wedding - at the same golf course...


----------



## VirgenTecate

OpenWindows said:


> The peer pressure\society thing is an interesting point. A lot of women would feel bad telling a guy not to go to a bachelor party... they would feel like there were being controlling, hen-pecking, paranoid, etc. But it doesn't seem like most men have the same issue with telling their women not to go. There seems to be less guilt involved for them.


I was just reading an older thread with a poster who had Ironman as his avatar and he made a great point that men come under this pressure when trying to say GNOs and that they want to seem like "the cool guy" even when it is destroying their marriage.

As a woman I do feel the pressure "to be cool" and let my guy go to a strip club at his bachelor's. But honestly, I do not feel at all ok with it (and I do not want to turn this into a debate about why my personal boundaries are wrong because nothing actually goes on at these clubs as has happened in many strip club threads on TAM). Luckily, my fiance has rejected that at every turn due to his own feelings about those places. But he has come under a lot of pressure from friends.

But I would rather not be cool and be in a marriage where I feel proud and fully myself.


----------



## VirgenTecate

samyeagar said:


> And that gets to the heart of peer pressure, or more accurately, societal pressure.
> 
> Going hand in hand with the idea that what was once good for the gander is now good for the goose is the idea that the goose no longer has to accept that behavior from the gander.
> 
> Where people fall down is when they allow themselves to be influenced by society over their partner. It's all fine and dandy to say that men have been doing this for centuries, and that women are simply catching up, but so what. I haven't. My partner didn't choose everyone else to be with. She chose me, and my feelings should trump all.
> 
> So what it boils don to as to why this is a good idea...well, that question is ultimately only answerable by the couple.


Bullseye!

Haha. But seriously, when I see the argument for why my husband should go to a strip club and I am being not cool by being upset by it, I don't understand why the stricter boundaries of my relationship is threatening to others.

We chose to be with each other and we choose to respect each other's boundaries. We have one boundary not everyone will agree with. That's fine. I only care what my partner thinks about that and how I feel. We didn't marry the curved average, we married each other.


----------



## samyeagar

OpenWindows said:


> The peer pressure\society thing is an interesting point. A lot of women would feel bad telling a guy not to go to a bachelor party... they would feel like there were being controlling, hen-pecking, paranoid, etc. But it doesn't seem like most men have the same issue with telling their women not to go. There seems to be less guilt involved for them.


Except...look at how the original poster has in fact been called controlling, jealous for just expressing his feelings. This thread has been VERY tame with actual civil discourse. These types of threads on this subject usually quickly devolve into polarized sides calling the other side slvts and controlling.

Women absolutely should speak up if they don't want their partner doing things like this. Set a boundary and stick with it...societal and peer pressure be damned.


----------



## MattMatt

VirgenTecate said:


> I was just reading an older thread with a poster who had Ironman as his avatar and he made a great point that men come under this pressure when trying to say GNOs and that they want to seem like "the cool guy" even when it is destroying their marriage.
> 
> As a woman I do feel the pressure "to be cool" and let my guy go to a strip club at his bachelor's. But honestly, I do not feel at all ok with it (and I do not want to turn this into a debate about why my personal boundaries are wrong because nothing actually goes on at these clubs as has happened in many strip club threads on TAM). Luckily, my fiance has rejected that at every turn due to his own feelings about those places. But he has come under a lot of pressure from friends.
> 
> But I would rather not be cool and be in a marriage where I feel proud and fully myself.


If they are trying to get your fiancé to do stuff he is uncomfortable with, then they might not be true friends at all...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cosmos

samyeagar said:


> *Except...look at how the original poster has in fact been called controlling, jealous for just expressing his feelings. * This thread has been VERY tame with actual civil discourse. These types of threads on this subject usually quickly devolve into polarized sides calling the other side slvts and controlling.
> 
> Women absolutely should speak up if they don't want their partner doing things like this. Set a boundary and stick with it...societal and peer pressure be damned.


I didn't see that, but objecting to a spouse going away on one of these sort of jaunts is NOT being jealous or controlling.


----------



## OpenWindows

samyeagar said:


> Except...look at how the original poster has in fact been called controlling, jealous for just expressing his feelings. This thread has been VERY tame with actual civil discourse. These types of threads on this subject usually quickly devolve into polarized sides calling the other side slvts and controlling.
> 
> Women absolutely should speak up if they don't want their partner doing things like this. Set a boundary and stick with it...societal and peer pressure be damned.


But he was mostly called controlling and jealous by women, less so by the men. The women are often taught to let their guys be guys, or else they will seem controlling. I'm not sure that men are taught the same way... it's more socially acceptable for them to take a stand. So each gender is still speaking from their perspective, advising OP to act they way THEY would in his situation.

Of course, there's exceptions on both sides, standard TAM gender-based disclaimer, etc etc...


----------



## samyeagar

Cosmos said:


> I didn't see that, *but objecting to a spouse going away on one of these sort of jaunts is NOT being jealous or controlling*.


Of course it's not...male or female. Those words, more often than not, are used to shame, guilt, and manipulate someone into compliance with something they don't feel comfortable with...a verbal bludgeoning stick if you will.


----------



## samyeagar

OpenWindows said:


> But he was mostly called controlling and jealous by women, less so by the men. The women are often taught to let their guys be guys, or else they will seem controlling. I'm not sure that men are taught the same way... it's more socially acceptable for them to take a stand. So each gender is still speaking from their perspective, advising OP to act they way THEY would in his situation.
> 
> Of course, there's exceptions on both sides, standard TAM gender-based disclaimer, etc etc...


See my post above...


----------



## OpenWindows

samyeagar said:


> Of course it's not...male or female. Those words, more often than not, are used to shame, guilt, and manipulate someone into compliance with something they don't feel comfortable with...a verbal bludgeoning stick if you will.


That stick has been used on me all my life, and it had the words "Boys will be boys" printed on it. I always thought of it as part of the female experience. No doubt men get hit with that stick too! Maybe just not the men in my life. My perspective might look a little different than some, as I've been raised in a small conservative southern town, where it's encouraged for women to be quiet and men to tell them what to do. It's interesting to me, how different these dynamics look in different areas.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

jdawg2015 said:


> Even if he is insecure I do give his wife credit as she respected him enough to not go on a trip that would make him uncomfortable.


She IS going. Why do you all think she is not?


----------



## Omego

I thought she agreed not to go?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Omego said:


> I thought she agreed not to go?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Post 284. WELL INTO this mess:



Djkool said:


> I doubt its over. I wont bring it up again to her, but I'm sure when the bride finds out, $hit will hit the fan. Its still two or three months away and there will be much talk of it. I don't think I'll put up much of a fight. She already knows how I feel about it. If she goes, I'll probably get over it... maybe I wont.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She didn't "agree" to not go. It was more:

"FINE. If you're going to be all controlling and freaky like this I won't go! There!! HAPPY NOW!!!???"

She's going.


----------



## zzzman99

OliviaG said:


> Here's a train of thought that I don't think has been debated yet in this thread. Men and women should be given equal opportunity and equal pay for equal work, yes? We would hopefully all agree on that point? But that doesn't mean that males and females are THE SAME.
> 
> Would you agree that *in general* (i.e. acknowledging that there are exceptions), men tend to be attracted to younger women, tend to take more risks, tend to have higher sex drives than women, tend to be more apt to enjoy sex just as a physical act without needing any emotion attached to it?
> 
> Conversely, women *in general* tend to be attracted to older, more established men, are much more risk averse than men, have lower sex drives than men, and do not enjoy sex without an emotional connection?
> 
> Based on the above, which gender do you think is statistically more apt to behave badly at a bachelor/ette party or similar event?
> 
> I think that many of the men commenting in the thread adamantly against a wife attending a bachelorette party are projecting what *they themselves* would feel tempted to do at a similar event, onto their wives.


Sorry, but BS. Just do a search in google and you will find all of the stuff that happens at bachelorette parties. There are controls in place to stop men from even touching female strippers. Women can get away with it and they do. Does it happen on both sides, sure. But your argument is that this is going to happen less at bachelorette parties and that is not reality.


----------



## Omego

MachoMcCoy said:


> Post 284. WELL INTO this mess:
> 
> 
> 
> She didn't "agree" to not go. It was more:
> 
> "FINE. If you're going to be all controlling and freaky like this I won't go! There!! HAPPY NOW!!!???"
> 
> She's going.


Ok thanks. I missed that part of the thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VirgenTecate

MattMatt said:


> If they are trying to get your fiancé to do stuff he is uncomfortable with, then they might not be true friends at all...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They listened when he backed done and I think he gained some respect in their eyes for it, but it is the lifestyle they live. He loves them due to them helping him out when he was poorer than poor.

The strip club thing came up during our first month of dating. We had not even discussed what boundaries we had and he refused.  

Do I like their company? No. It feels like they are in a younger life stage than us even though we are younger than them. However, much of what Marduk has been through with stopping GNOs with his wife by setting clear boundaries and then doing the 180. I have had to set the same tone in my relationship and their influence and friendships have gone down.

The difficult thing in the beginning was honestly a cultural difference. Boys will be boys is much stronger in Mexico than where I am from. While he did not participate in strip clubs or prostitutes, many of his male friends and family had. It was just accepted. He was picked on for many years for being different and waiting for marriage. In fact, his grandparents tried to hire a prostitute for him when he was 13 as a way to man him up. His father had to step in as his father was also the odd man out.

(Disclaimer: Not all of Mexico, not all Mexicans)

So his tolerance for being around men who exhibited this behavior was high because otherwise he would be friendless and against family members.


----------



## samyeagar

zzzman99 said:


> Sorry, but BS. Just do a search in google and you will find all of the stuff that happens at bachelorette parties. There are controls in place to stop men from even touching female strippers. *Women can get away with it and they do*. Does it happen on both sides, sure. But your argument is that this is going to happen less at bachelorette parties and that is not reality.


And they are actively encouraged to do so. Hell, some of my wife's friends went and saw the Chippendales, and a few of them posted some pictures from the after show meet and greet, and the favorite pose was the woman bending over with the guy grinding her from behind with his hands on her ass and the "whoopsie" smirk on her face. The other popular pose was them standing next to each other with his hand on her boob, and her hand on his crotch. And that was average married women between 35 and 45, in a big open public venue. Yeah, I'm not ok with that.


----------



## VirgenTecate

zzzman99 said:


> Sorry, but BS. Just do a search in google and you will find all of the stuff that happens at bachelorette parties. There are controls in place to stop men from even touching female strippers. Women can get away with it and they do. Does it happen on both sides, sure. But your argument is that this is going to happen less at bachelorette parties and that is not reality.


As a woman, I agree. We must look at the reality of the situation and the reality is that those with looser morals are going to act in such ways regardless of gender.

Disclaimer: Not talking about single women who want to participate in this behavior.


----------



## EllisRedding

samyeagar said:


> * The other popular pose was them standing next to each other with his hand on her boob, and her hand on his crotch.*


Funny, I just had my annual physical this morning and got the same exact picture taken with my doctor >

So I am curious, let's take this situation. I have seen pictures similar to this in the past shown publicly and everyone seemed to laugh at (female with male stripper). What type of reaction do you think you would see if the roles were reversed (guy with female stripper)?


----------



## Omego

Single or married, it's not appropriate. Getting a lap dance is not very elegant either but let's be honest. What would bother a parent, for example, more: to learn that his or her daughter was touching a male stripper and being grinded in public or that the son got a lap dance?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VirgenTecate

Omego said:


> Single or married, it's not appropriate. Getting a lap dance is not very elegant either but let's be honest. What would bother a parent, for example, more: to learn that his or her daughter was touching a male stripper and being grinded in public or that the son got a lap dance?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What does it matter what societal perception of what is correct for each gender?

What should matter is the development of the person. 

If the daughter or son doing this is single and it is a safe way for them to explore their sexuality. What is the issue? 

If it is a way to degrade the other sex. That is an issue. If it is an addiction it is an issue.

If you are married. It is an issue.


----------



## Omego

Everyone is free to give his or her own opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VirgenTecate

Omego said:


> Everyone is free to give his or her own opinion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right.

I come off as harsh and unforgiving in my posts.

But that is not what is in my mind.


----------



## Omego

VirgenTecate said:


> You are right.
> 
> I come off as harsh and unforgiving in my posts.
> 
> But that is not what is in my mind.


No worries. And I don't think you come off as harsh! :smile2:


----------



## VirgenTecate

Omego said:


> No worries. And I don't think you come off as harsh! :smile2:


I think I do but that is because I am not writing down the 101 stipulations and "well, in this situation"s and "from my faulty perspective"s and "I wouldn't want to be branded for life"s running through my head.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Time to reel this in a little?

Nobody's going to change their opinion re: whether a GNO (standard clubbing at home or on steroids like this) is acceptable in a marriage. 27 more pages won't change that.

OP. What are you going to do?


----------



## Cosmos

Omego said:


> Ok thanks. I missed that part of the thread.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



The OP's W agreed NOT to go. The OP didn't mention anything to lead us to believe that:-

Originally posted by *MachoMcCoy *


> She didn't "agree" to not go. It was more:
> *
> "FINE. If you're going to be all controlling and freaky like this I won't go! There!! HAPPY NOW!!!???"
> *
> She's going.


What he _actually_ told us was:-

Originally posted by *Djkool*


> I didnt say this in my original post, because I wanted to get peoples perspectives on the situation and thought maybe i was being unreasonable, *but she already agreed not to go.*
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-bachelorette-party-vegas-2.html#post14643105


----------



## EllisRedding

OliviaG said:


> Does google bring up all the tame parties too?


I just googled tame bachelorette parties and this was one of the first images that appeared lol.


----------



## EllisRedding

OliviaG said:


> Lol...I'm curious on how you would rate that photo: Is it inappropriate or tame in your book?


Hmmm ... well first off lets state the obvious ... those balloons are not accurate representations of the real thing :grin2:

Looking at the way they are dressed you would assumed they are going out clubbing I guess?


----------



## EllisRedding

Cosmos said:


> I googled "Tame stag party" and got this:-


Haha, I got this for tame "bachelor" party (of course amongst other not so tame pics)


----------



## EllisRedding

OliviaG said:


> Hmmm...that looks suspiciously like a still taken of a cooking show.


Looking at the link address Google is pulling it from a website "EatMeDaily". Either it is a food site or a porn site lol.


----------



## OpenWindows

OliviaG said:


> Hmmm...that looks suspiciously like a still taken of a cooking show.


It's from a sitcom called "Kath & Kim".

Lol, I've got Google skills too!


----------



## ConanHub

Cosmos said:


> I googled "Tame stag party" and got this:-
> 
> Some of the ones that came up were more like porno shots! lol


Yuk. If that is tame, I'm pee wee Herman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

Omego said:


> Single or married, it's not appropriate. Getting a lap dance is not very elegant either but let's be honest. What would bother a parent, for example, more: to learn that his or her daughter was touching a male stripper and being grinded in public or that the son got a lap dance?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would be extremely disappointed with either. I would probably feel more let down by my son, loss of respect, and more outraged and disgusted by my daughter.

Life ain't fair I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EllisRedding

intheory said:


> Lol, Ellis :grin2:
> 
> I just thought I'd take this opportunity to tell you (as a friend), it's really, really obvious that you're wearing a rug.
> 
> I thought you'd want to know.:laugh:


Fine, I took the rug off, are you happy now ... :bringiton:


----------



## straightshooter

I think it's not too great that OP had a serious damage question son concern and has evolved into this silly Google contest.

And STRIPPERS had nothing to do with his not being comfortable with her going in anything he has said.

He stated he was uncomfortable because he knows this group of friends and they have openly stated that they plan on a lot of booze, a lot of partying in places where guys are going to be hitting on them, and that he was concerned in that environment and fueled by peer pressure and alcohol if there was a good risk of his wife "joining" the fun. Plus her being close to delirious at the opposrunity to go to this knowing what was planned.

HOW ABOUT CONCENTRATING ON THAT ASPECT OF IT?

I am not surprised he has not come back too often because his real concerns are not being commented on any more, but rather this debate on strippers of both sexes goes on. These have a lot of valid points but again are NOT his main issue. I doubt if this was going to be done at home and not a three day party fest in Vegas or anywhere else and was just a few hours with a few male slippers if this tread ever would have been started.


----------



## VirgenTecate

intheory said:


> I apologize in advance for a bit of a threadjack.:|
> 
> Virgen,
> 
> Were/are these men practicing Catholics?
> 
> I find it really interesting to contrast people's stated religious beliefs with their actual behavior; is the reason I am asking?


His family are highly Catholic. His grandparents in particular. A much more pagan Catholicism than the Catholic church.

A lot of times we talk about male and female roles here on TAM and I think many of them are American/European.

Gender roles in the south of Mexico are more rigid. As if you couldn't imagine any other life.

Men who are married have sex with prostitutes. You don't talk about it but you know. And you know who their bastard children are. You don't talk about that either. Women hold much more power at home. Apart from finances, men get no say. 

Stereotypes and not everyone and everywhere fits. I am talking about a village of no more than 60 people in a valley of cut out jungle in the south of mexico. 

I constantly get looks of surprise when I say that I have my driver's license. I am told that I need to learn how to cook more for his sake. It is expected that I will leave my job and stay at home for the children even though I have higher education and make more. There is a sense of emasculation that he cooks even though he enjoys it and wants to do it. 

He is not Catholic. He is atheist. He politely stands up to his family for me. He is glad he never had sex with anyone before me. He has thought deeply about his culture. He is fiercely proud but does not allow the more regressive sides tear down his morality. It would do us all good to do such reflection.

I don't think it has anything to do with Catholicism. I think this is a culture that has existed since the Mayas and Olmecs set foot there. Catholicism is just the modern tapestry.

Overall, I am loved and respected by his family. Respected even more I think for not bending over backwards to their expectations. They don't want to accept that I am more "masculine" but they certainly respect me more for not caving in as strange as that may sound.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

She's going, all right.


----------



## Cosmos

straightshooter said:


> I think it's not too great that OP had a serious damage question son concern and has evolved into this silly Google contest.
> 
> And STRIPPERS had nothing to do with his not being comfortable with her going in anything he has said.
> 
> He stated he was uncomfortable because he knows this group of friends and they have openly stated that they plan on a lot of booze, a lot of partying in places where guys are going to be hitting on them, and that he was concerned in that environment and fueled by peer pressure and alcohol if there was a good risk of his wife "joining" the fun. Plus her being close to delirious at the opposrunity to go to this knowing what was planned.
> 
> HOW ABOUT CONCENTRATING ON THAT ASPECT OF IT?
> 
> I am not surprised he has not come back too often because his real concerns are not being commented on any more, but rather this debate on strippers of both sexes goes on. These have a lot of valid points but again are NOT his main issue. I doubt if this was going to be done at home and not a three day party fest in Vegas or anywhere else and was just a few hours with a few male slippers if this tread ever would have been started.


I think the thread devolved this way because *the OP told us that his W isn't going on the trip and, in fact, he knew this when he started the thread...*

I gained the impression that he'd received all the answers he needed and, after apprising us of the above and thanking everyone for their replies, (as far as I understand it) he left the thread.


----------



## straightshooter

It is not correct that she is. Not going.

He told us well after the post you are referring to that the trip is not for a few months and that it is not decided yet.

Check his posts out and you I think will see that


----------



## Cosmos

straightshooter said:


> It is not correct that she is. Not going.
> 
> He told us well after the post you are referring to that the trip is not for a few months and that it is not decided yet.
> 
> Check his posts out and you I think will see that


He told us that his W had agreed to not go even before he posted here. At no point did he say that she had changed her mind and _was _going. 

However, he did say that the trip isn't for a few months yet, and implied that the bride _might _try to talk his W into going... 

Unless the OP's W is into breaking her word to him, we should assume that she will stand by her word and won't go.

We have absolutely no reason to believe that the OP's W would jeopardize the health and stability of her marriage - all for the sake of a silly bachelorette party.


----------



## straightshooter

*Unless the OP's W is into breaking her word to him, we should assume that she will stand by her word and won't go.

We have absolutely no reason to believe that the OP's W would jeopardize the health and stability of her marriage - all for the sake of a silly bachelorette party.*

Well, I hope you are right. But he implied she was not happy about his not wanting her to go. Let's see what happens when the "bride and friends" put the pressure on. And how much of what I would call unjustified "resentment" she has. I still think he needs some explanation of WHY she was so excited to be going to this type thing as the only married woman. These are not long lost friends a that she has not seen. That is what troubled him as much as anything and there is no explanation for that.

A lot of female posters have stated they would not go anyway to something like this with its stated activity purpose. I think for the benefit of his marriage he needs to find out why it appeals to her so that they communicate openly and honestly.

My other point is I do not think this has anything to do with strippers. Chippendales is not what is bothering him.


----------



## Cosmos

Well, after 29 pages of responses, I'm pretty sure the OP has been able to reach his own conclusions. I have little, if anything, more to add.


----------



## OpenWindows

As far as WHY she wants to go... OP never answered my question about whether she's been to Vegas before. Aren't most people excited about their first Vegas trip?

I think she probably thinks of it as the same kind of fun he lets her have in town, just farther away. I don't think she really gets how he feels.

Personally, I would be very confused by "I trust you, wife... But I don't want you to go because you might cheat". Maybe he's not communicating to her as clearly as he thinks he is.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

straightshooter said:


> A lot of female posters have stated they would not go anyway to something like this with its stated activity purpose. I think for the benefit of his marriage *he needs to find out why it appeals to her* so that they communicate openly and honestly.



He can EASILY see why it appeals to her. They do a mini one of these every other weekend. Just send a buddy to the meat marker with his cell phone and get video footage. That will answer all his his questions.

The simplest infidelity to catch and NOBODY does it. Probably because they don't WANT to see what goes on with their wife at a meat market style GNO.




straightshooter said:


> My other point is I do not think this has anything to do with strippers. Chippendales is not what is bothering him.


Spot on right there.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

OpenWindows said:


> I think she probably thinks of it as *the same kind of fun he lets her have in town*, just farther away.


I can GUARANTEE he is not as comfortable as he makes it sound with his wife partying with a group of...sexily clad club goers... every other weekend. Who watches their wife walk out the door intending to party with strange males at places known for picking up members of the opposite sex and is TOTALLY cool with it?

Oh, I can GUARANTEE he is not comfortable with it. You are correct. If it doesn't bother him HERE, why would it bother him THERE? Answer? Because he's not totally comfortable with it here. And "there" is "here" on steroids. Weekly boy parties are little fish. This is an EPIC trip. Each and every one of these girls plans on making a stand in Vegas.

Of that I have no doubt. The OP has a little doubt. But not enough to make him comfortable.

And I can GUARANTEE, in her little head anyhow, she's still going.


----------



## OpenWindows

Well if he's not comfortable with it at home, then he's DEFINITELY not communicating that very well, and that's on him. If he tells her it's fine, she will believe him and carry on.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

OpenWindows said:


> Personally, I would be very confused by "I trust you, wife... But I don't want you to go because you might cheat". Maybe he's not communicating to her as clearly as he thinks he is.


He's communicating just fine. 

Question, OP: How does your wife explain these nights out with the gals? Does she tell you where she's going? Does she tell you who she is going WITH. Does she tell you about the men she parties with? Does she ever tell you these boys names? Does she ever tell you she leaves with groups of men for an "after-party" drink? 

If I were a wagering man, I'm going with "she really doesn't give me any details..."

All of you "it's just good. clean fun" folks. If his wife's little group DID happen to meet up with men regularly. Party with them. Dance with them. Get to know them. Possibly meet up with them at different meat markets. 

But never tell their SO about these men. "It's all clean, innocent fun. We didn't DO anything with these guys..."

No sex. No BJ's. No making out. Maybe they even try to AVOID the boner their dance partner is trying to grind into their asses. But still, good clean fun.

But no mention of the boys? Is that borderline infidelity? I sure as sh1t don't want MY wife in that scenario. Swapping fluids or not. Partying with the boys and not telling me about it is cheating.


----------



## OpenWindows

Take a moment to un-wad your panties, Macho. Not everyone's nights out are like that. Some people continue to respect their partners even when they're not physically present.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

OpenWindows said:


> Well if he's not comfortable with it at home, then he's DEFINITELY not communicating that very well


He doesn't HAVE to communicate it. She knows.

I was out on the front lawn with my oldest boy. His infant little sister was inside. Probably sleeping. It's 8:30 or something. My wife walks past me, practically running, doesn't even slow down as she says "I'm going dancing with (name of wingwoman for the summer)". No word about where. No word about when she'll be home. No word the next day about what went on. Anything beyond "did you have fun" was followed with an implication that I'm controlling and jealous.

If I ever work up the nerve to talk to her about that summer again, I'd like to just ask her ONE QUESTION:

"How did you know I wasn't even going to QUESTION you on your decision to cruise meat markets with your wingwoman"?

No, I wasn't the first man to be browbeaten by the like of you, OW, to "allow" my wife to cruise the bars. And this OP won't be the last. He CAN'T communicate it to her because the likes of YOU tell him he is a Neanderthal for having a problem with it.

Jump in any time OP.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

OpenWindows said:


> Take a moment to un-wad your panties, Macho. Not everyone's nights out are like that. Some people continue to respect their partners even when they're not physically present.


I admit that. What is truly BIZARRE is why your side WON'T admit that many don't. And clubbing with the girls where the husband is NOT ALLOWED to question the actions of the spouse is a PERFECT venue. "We just went to dance. It's not OUR FAULT if the place just happens to be 2/3 filled with men looking to get laid.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

I'm done. I'm not getting sucked back into this.


----------



## OpenWindows

MachoMcCoy said:


> No, I wasn't the first man to be browbeaten by the like of you, OW, to "allow" my wife to cruise the bars. And this OP won't be the last. He CAN'T communicate it to her because the likes of YOU tell him he is a Neanderthal for having a problem with it.


Don't put words in my mouth. I've said several times that if he doesn't want her to go, she should respect that. I've also tried to provide some insight into what she might be thinking.


----------



## straightshooter

I guess I also missed the part about her doing this every other week end at home with this crew. If that is the case, then him posting here would indicate he is not too crazy about that either but has been putting up with it and there must be a reason why. Like I said, OP knows his wife and has I am sure seen her behavior around these girlfriends. SOMETHING bothered him enough to find this forum and post the story, and I'm rejecting he is a controlling pig.

No need to speculate on what is in her mind. Her actions and demeanor about it will tell everyone that


----------



## OpenWindows

Djkool said:


> My wife isn't really the club / party type though. She has never given me any reason not to trust her. She does, on rare occasion go out with these girls, but it doesn't bother me, as she comes home at a decent time.
> 
> However, I am uncomfortable in the thought of her getting dressed to kill along with the other girls and going out to the dance clubs and getting really drunk in Las Vegas. No matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself feel ok about it. In fact, it makes me physically ill.


I don't think she's going out very often, or that OP has voiced much concern with her in-town outings. It seems to be the longer event, farther away from home, that has him bothered.


----------



## New_Beginnings

straightshooter said:


> It is not correct that she is. Not going.
> 
> He told us well after the post you are referring to that the trip is not for a few months and that it is not decided yet.
> 
> Check his posts out and you I think will see that



What he was implying was the bride would throw a fit since she wasn't aware about his wife saying "she wouldn't go". He said he may or may not get over it, if she decided to go (due to the bride getting mad and if she changed her mind to go because of bride). That's how I took it. 

If the wife was planning not to go, she would face the music of the bride and say she's not going. She wouldn't pin her excuse on her husband. It sounds like she doesn't have much of a backbone if he believes she might end up going if bride gets mad. This is also why she quickly told him she wouldn't go. This wasn't a settled discussion, it was more so "I won't go, do to your [email protected]$&!"


----------



## New_Beginnings

straightshooter said:


> I guess I also missed the part about her doing this every other week end at home with this crew. If that is the case, then him posting here would indicate he is not too crazy about that either but has been putting up with it and there must be a reason why. Like I said, OP knows his wife and has I am sure seen her behavior around these girlfriends. SOMETHING bothered him enough to find this forum and post the story, and I'm rejecting he is a controlling pig.
> 
> No need to speculate on what is in her mind. Her actions and demeanor about it will tell everyone that



Honestly, if you deal with your wife hanging out with women (as he described), then I'd like to know the kind of men he surrounds himself with. 

I wouldn't be suprised if he has some shady guy friends as well. What does a guys night out look like for the OP? That's why in town occasional drunken nights with these women would be acceptable. Also why a male stripper would be acceptable. I know my husband wouldn't be ok with me seeing a male stripper unless I'm ok with female strippers (I am not).


----------



## New_Beginnings

Djkool said:


> marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not good.
> 
> But you also can't stop her. I know; I tried.
> 
> Set boundaries. Have her call you every night.
> 
> And plan a boys trip to Vegas and let her know it's coming.
> 
> That's all that really worked for me. After my boys trip, suddenly she "got it."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be a huge fan of planning a trip just to get revenge or to make myself feel better. I think that would only damage things further. However, my good friend did invite me on an all guys Vegas trip a few years ago and I declined as I thought it would be stressful to my wife, and I would feel bad spending money that way.
> 
> I could stop her if I wanted too. If I told her it was a "no go" for me, then she wouldn't do it.
> 
> I just hate to be the "ruiner of fun".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


Here's the bingo part OP. You stated your "good friend" invited you on an all boys trip to Vegas a couple years ago. Spend money in what way? What were your friends' plans and how would that be stressful to your wife??

Yes, you declined but here's my point.

You surround yourself with friends just as you describe your wife surrounds herself with. Unless you both set boundaries for what's acceptable as a married unit, I'm only seeing whining as you once turned down a trip and here she was willing to go.


----------



## EleGirl

MachoMcCoy said:


> I admit that. What is truly BIZARRE is why your side WON'T admit that many don't. And clubbing with the girls where the husband is NOT ALLOWED to question the actions of the spouse is a PERFECT venue. "We just went to dance. It's not OUR FAULT if the place just happens to be 2/3 filled with men looking to get laid.


Maybe the reason some of the women here can see a side of women going out that is not debauchery is because we know that we go out with our female friends and do not act the way most of the men here seem to assume that all women behave when they go out together.

We are not your wife. Your wife and your wife alone owns her behavior. We don't.


----------



## Cosmos

OliviaG said:


> Yes, a thousand times yes. I don't know *any* women who would behave that way. Not one! I guess it takes all kinds but any married woman with an iota of class is not going to be behaving like an animal in heat the minute she's out of her husband's sight. And no, we're not salivating at the chance to grind up against random men on the dance floor. The thought of it is slightly nauseating actually.
> 
> Yes, we girls do occasionally go away for weekends together. None of us (in my circle) would put up with that kind of behaviour from each other if it were to happen. It would be shocking to the extreme; the type of thing that is just unthinkable to most married women. It's amazing to me that so many men think otherwise.


I can't agree with you more.

I don't know _any _women who behave that way, let alone mix with them! 

If my SO so much as suggested that my little c0cktails, theatre and dinner parties were simply a cover for some of the vulgar behaviour described in this thread, I would be utterly mortified!


----------



## straightshooter

*
Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Maybe the reason some of the women here can see a side of women going out that is not debauchery is because we know that we go out with our female friends and do not act the way most of the men here seem to assume that all women behave when they go out together.

We are not your wife. Your wife and your wife alone owns her behavior. We don't.
Yes, a thousand times yes. I don't know *any* women who would behave that way. Not one! I guess it takes all kinds but any married woman with an iota of class is not going to be behaving like an animal in heat the minute she's out of her husband's sight. And no, we're not salivating at the chance to grind up against random men on the dance floor. The thought of it is slightly nauseating actually.

Yes, we girls do occasionally go away for weekends together. None of us (in my circle) would put up with that kind of behaviour from each other if it were to happen. It would be shocking to the extreme; the type of thing that is just unthinkable to most married women. It's amazing to me that so many men think otherwise.*

I don't think any sensible person thinks most women would cheat any time they go out together. But it seems like there is a lot of denial about the fact that there is a lot of infidelity that occurs by BOTH men and women when put in a situation where opportunity is constantly in their face for three days thousands of miles from home. I read an article that said that some statistics say over 70% of men and 50 % of women admit that the would have a ONS if they were 100% sure their spouse would not find out.

JUst as there have been some over the top comments here about women in general, there have been some naive assumptions stated that because the terrific boundaries and personal moral of those posting ( not doubted) are also applicable to OP's wife and her friends.

The overwhelming number of ladies that do a GNO do NOT CHEAT, and the overwhelming number of men who go to a strip club do NOT blow hundreds of dollars on lap dances or get special favors from the girls in the back room.

OP knows these friends. He is NOT comfortable with this three day trip. 
How about trusting xsome of his "gut" feelings about it. It's his spouse, not ours. And he has also stated he has refused a similar offer so he is not being a hypocrite. He is not asking her to refrain from anything he has done.

I commend those of you that would advise her to respect her husbands wishes. Vegas will be there for hundreds of more years to see, preferably with him if that is what she is excited about. To advise her to tell him she is going regardless of his feelings or if she makesthat decision from peer pressure, that says something else about her relationship with her husband.


----------



## soccermom2three

straightshooter said:


> *
> 
> I don't think any sensible person thinks most women would cheat any time they go out together. But it seems like there is a lot of denial about the fact that there is a lot of infidelity that occurs by BOTH men and women when put in a situation where opportunity is constantly in their face for three days thousands of miles from home. I read an article that said that some statistics say over 70% of men and 50 % of women admit that the would have a ONS if they were 100% sure their spouse would not find out.
> *


*

I don't think any women here are in denial. We just are pretty sure that this thread would've gone a totally different way if the genders were reversed.*


----------



## ConanHub

soccermom2three said:


> I don't think any women here are in denial. We just are pretty sure that this thread would've gone a totally different way if the genders were reversed.


Now you are generalizing the men of TAM. I almost refused to perform my best friend's wedding because he was being encouraged to get drunk and be stupid.

That was the night before the wedding. I would have called it off he took my concerns seriously and laid off the booze and stupid ideas.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...a567ea-b3f6-11e5-a842-0feb51d1d124_story.html

Carolyn Hax: There’s no need to be Par-tay City’s hostess with the mostest.

"When we were out, I came back from the bar to find Kathy making out with a guy who was rounding third base. I hated that she made me an accomplice to her cheating, and ended up mostly breaking off the friendship."

Hmmm. Never saw THAT in the produce section.

And it looks like that's a regular thing for her friends who come to experience the city. OP, I truly hope your gal is one of the few that really ARE there to see the fountains at the Belagio.

I can't WAIT 'till March.


----------



## VirgenTecate

ConanHub said:


> Now you are generalizing the men of TAM. I almost refused to perform my best friend's wedding because he was being encouraged to get drunk and be stupid.
> 
> That was the night before the wedding. I would have called it off he took my concerns seriously and laid off the booze and stupid ideas.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think a big reason why some women feel this way is that Strip Clubs have been argued to death on this forum with much defense that it is alright and the women have to suck it up.

I certainly see the poster's response as being valid.

I also see GNOs being defended as well and would understand why a man would say "if the roles were reversed and it was a BNO.

I think in general there is a double standard in society on both of those points. The GNOs and the strip clubs/bachelor's parties.

I am glad you are a bigger person than all of that. Beyond what society says and beyond your friends at your best friend's wedding.


----------



## soccermom2three

ConanHub said:


> Now you are generalizing the men of TAM. I almost refused to perform my best friend's wedding because he was being encouraged to get drunk and be stupid.
> [/i][/size]


Well, it kind of sucks to be generalized doesnt it? 

I've been called derogatory names on this very thread all because I've been to bachelorette parties, clubs and Vegas without my husband.


----------



## EleGirl

soccermom2three said:


> Well, it kind of sucks to be generalized doesnt it?
> 
> I've been called derogatory names on this very thread all because I've been to bachelorette parties, clubs and Vegas without my husband.


Good point. This thread is mostly a lot of gross generalizations about how women behave. And saying anything that disagrees with the generalizations has led to a lot of the women on this thread being given a hard time.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

This is what I want to know. Remember, we are talking about a SPECIFIC party girl. We are NOT going to settle the "clubbing wives: Yay or Nay!" battle here.

I want to know just ONE thing. And I feel we should all pause this conversation until we get an answer:

OP: When she comes home from one of her standard meat market trips, what does she tell you about her night with the gals?

A - She is open and honest with me. She tells me everything. We laugh together about all of the men that try to break into their man-free bubble and are rejected. Some are SO CRAZY to keep trying. Then we did this, and that...It is SO MUCH FUN. You should come with some time"

B - You both ignore it. She offers nothing. The ONE TIME you pushed for a little detail (purely because you were interested, of course, not because you were paranoid), she got a little perturbed and gave you the soft "you don't trust me" excuse for not talking. IF the men came up in conversation, the response was "I don't know what it is about me. It must be that I'm married and the other girls are SO MUCH prettier than me, I get left out.

I'm betting on B. If it were A, we wouldn't be up to page 31 on his thread.

Why is he cool with all of these mini batchelorette parties at home but not one in Vegas? Because he is DEFINITELY not cool with these local meat market trips. THAT'S why the Vegas trip is freaking him out.


----------



## Cosmos

VirgenTecate said:


> *I think a big reason why some women feel this way is that Strip Clubs have been argued to death on this forum with much defense that it is alright and the women have to suck it up.*


A lot of things are argued on TAM that wouldn't be if the situations were reversed.


----------



## WonkyNinja

MachoMcCoy said:


> This is what I want to know. Remember, we are talking about a SPECIFIC party girl. We are NOT going to settle the "clubbing wives: Yay or Nay!" battle here.


Did you intend to prove all the above points about double standards or was it just coincidental?

The OP was talking about his wife, who had given him no reason not to trust her, but because she wants to go out with her cousin and friends that are single she becomes a "party girl".

Look up "Party Girl" on Urban Dictionary and you get - 

_1:A girl who will party hard anywhere, even if the party is sh1t she will get down and get naked. 
2: A girl who likes to fvck, usually will either swallow or let you spray it all over her. Also prone to threesomes (including bi), and taking it in the wrong 'un
This chick last night was a total party girl, I pulled it out here ar5e and then she swallowed! Dirty *****!_

That may not be a definitive reference but it does sum up the generally accepted meaning of yet another derogatory way to keep women down. 

Ironically this is the same sort of girl that the "red pill" man might want when looking for a hook up but then expects her to change as soon as she becomes "his property".


----------



## VirgenTecate

WonkyNinja said:


> Did you intend to prove all the above points about double standards or was it just coincidental?
> 
> The OP was talking about his wife, who had given him no reason not to trust her, but because she wants to go out with her cousin and friends that are single she becomes a "party girl".
> 
> Look up "Party Girl" on Urban Dictionary and you get -
> 
> _1:A girl who will party hard anywhere, even if the party is sh1t she will get down and get naked.
> 2: A girl who likes to fvck, usually will either swallow or let you spray it all over her. Also prone to threesomes (including bi), and taking it in the wrong 'un
> This chick last night was a total party girl, I pulled it out here ar5e and then she swallowed! Dirty *****!_
> 
> That may not be a definitive reference but it does sum up the generally accepted meaning of yet another derogatory way to keep women down.
> 
> Ironically this is the same sort of girl that the "red pill" man might want when looking for a hook up but then expects her to change as soon as she becomes "his property".


Oh no. I do not want to drag red pill debates onto these forums anymore :frown2: 

I actually understand Macho's point. A specific man came on these forums to understand his situation with his specific wife.

I do think we should focus on that.

Focusing on it means that we are going to trip along the larger societal forces though. I think there is some merit to going down that road. We all exist in society and it will influence us for better of for worse.

But we musn't loose sight of for whom and for what purpose.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

WonkyNinja said:


> Did you intend to prove all the above points about double standards or was it just coincidental?
> 
> The OP was talking about his wife, who had given him no reason not to trust her, but because she wants to go out with her cousin and friends that are single she becomes a "party girl".
> 
> Look up "Party Girl" on Urban Dictionary and you get -
> 
> _1:A girl who will party hard anywhere, even if the party is sh1t she will get down and get naked.
> 2: A girl who likes to fvck, usually will either swallow or let you spray it all over her. Also prone to threesomes (including bi), and taking it in the wrong 'un
> This chick last night was a total party girl, I pulled it out here ar5e and then she swallowed! Dirty *****!_
> 
> That may not be a definitive reference but it does sum up the generally accepted meaning of yet another derogatory way to keep women down.
> 
> Ironically this is the same sort of girl that the "red pill" man might want when looking for a hook up but then expects her to change as soon as she becomes "his property".


Odd that your ENTIRE response to my post concentrated SOLEY on the label I chose for her and NOT the content of my post. And quite frankly, I think MY definition of party girl is a lot closer to what we all understood me to mean as opposed to the sex crazed ***** you described.

Obviously this man has a problem with these local meat market trips. He wouldn't be here otherwise. He KNOWS they are going to do THERE what they do HERE. He doesn't LIKE IT. There is NO WAY a modern man today is going to come on to a meat grinder like this forum is and say "I have a problem with my wife going out to the clubs with her single girlfriends". He is trained that he will be EATEN ALIVE if he does so.

SO OP. How does she act about these nights out? It's a legitimate question.

And where did you get that definition of "party girl". I'd like to see your sources. And the two of you that "liked" this nonsense: ???


----------



## WonkyNinja

MachoMcCoy said:


> Odd that your ENTIRE response to my post concentrated SOLEY on the label I chose for her and NOT the content of my post. And quite frankly, *I think MY definition of party girl is a lot closer to what we all understood me to mean* as opposed to the sex crazed ***** you described.


No, I chose to answer the section using the label you chose for her. Just as you have chosen to use other derogatory labels for women based upon your supposed knowledge of a tiny part of their lives.

I am glad that you can speak for all of us regarding how we understand what you mean.



MachoMcCoy said:


> And where did you get that definition of "party girl". I'd like to see your sources. And the two of you that "liked" this nonsense: ???





WonkyNinja said:


> Look up "Party Girl" on Urban Dictionary and you get -


Read again carefully, there's a clue in there somewhere.


----------



## OpenWindows

If we're supposed to be focusing on OP, what's with this insistence that he's not okay with her occasional in-town GNOs? He pretty clearly says in the first post that they did not bother him. Did something OP say make you think otherwise? Because he hasn't really said much here at all.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Cosmos said:


> A lot of things are argued on TAM that wouldn't be if the situations were reversed.


Yup. I saw a post on another thread arguing that lap dances are no big deal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VirgenTecate

lifeistooshort said:


> Yup. I saw a post on another thread arguing that lap dances are no big deal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I see that a lot on here and that is what I think is getting a lot of women riled up which leads to them responding in a certain way to this situation.

I personally do not believe it is appropriate for her to go. I am glad she decided not to go. I hope she realizes that she has responsibilities to her husband about staying in the boundaries of the marriage depending on what they both feel comfortable about. Such as explained in Marriage Builders.

I feel the same way about strip clubs with men. Previous posts on this forum are informing the way people respond this thread which is why this thread consistently is updated. We are trying to work out a double standard in society and argue about it using the OP and his wife as a starting point.

I still think it is a valid discussion to have.


----------



## Cosmos

VirgenTecate said:


> I see that a lot on here and that is what I think is getting a lot of women riled up which leads to them responding in a certain way to this situation.
> 
> I personally do not believe it is appropriate for her to go. I am glad she decided not to go. I hope she realizes that she has responsibilities to her husband about staying in the boundaries of the marriage depending on what they both feel comfortable about. Such as explained in Marriage Builders.
> 
> I feel the same way about strip clubs with men. Previous posts on this forum are informing the way people respond this thread which is why this thread consistently is updated. We are trying to work out a double standard in society and argue about it using the OP and his wife as a starting point.


I agree.


----------



## richie33

I trust my wife in any zip code. I trust her decision making. My opinion might be different if there was cheating in our pasts but that is not the case.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

This is turning into another "partying wife, yay or nay" thread. There will never be a winner or loser nor compromise.

Because I don't understand the other argument. If my wife comes to me and says (and I'm paraphrasing):

"I'm going out dressed like this. With three single gals dressed like this as well. We will be drinking, dancing and partying, dressed like this, in a place where half the clientele will be males looking to/expecting to get laid. Don't wait up".

And I'm supposed to be comfortable with that? I'm a controlling jealous Neanderthal if I'd rather she not do this?

This trip to Vegas is their little meat market weekends on steroids. Same thing, just bigger. I'm guessing he is not as cool with those weekends as he lets on. I say that based on the fact that he suddenly has a problem with the same thing, only bigger and longer (no pun intended).

Let's stick to this OP's situation. He needs to clear some stuff up. I'd recommend the mods close this down until the OP wants to bring it back. Clear some stuff up. Otherwise, it will go on forever on a tangent that the OP did not intend.


----------



## ConanHub

soccermom2three said:


> Well, it kind of sucks to be generalized doesnt it?
> 
> I've been called derogatory names on this very thread all because I've been to bachelorette parties, clubs and Vegas without my husband.


Well, for certain, I didn't and that is your husband's business with you and none of ours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

MachoMcCoy said:


> This is turning into another "partying wife, yay or nay" thread. There will never be a winner or loser nor compromise.
> 
> Because I don't understand the other argument. If my wife comes to me and says (and I'm paraphrasing):
> 
> "I'm going out dressed like this. With three single gals dressed like this as well. We will be drinking, dancing and partying, dressed like this, in a place where half the clientele will be males looking to/expecting to get laid. Don't wait up".
> 
> And I'm supposed to be comfortable with that? I'm a controlling jealous Neanderthal if I'd rather she not do this?
> 
> This trip to Vegas is their little meat market weekends on steroids. Same thing, just bigger. I'm guessing he is not as cool with those weekends as he lets on. I say that based on the fact that he suddenly has a problem with the same thing, only bigger and longer (no pun intended).
> 
> Let's stick to this OP's situation. He needs to clear some stuff up. I'd recommend the mods close this down until the OP wants to bring it back. Clear some stuff up. Otherwise, it will go on forever on a tangent that the OP did not intend.


There's nothing for him to clear up. He expressed his discomfort and his wife agreed not to go, but that's apparently not enough. He's po'd that she even wanted to go and the fact that she wanted to go apparently makes her a $%#@# in the eyes of many here.


----------



## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> Yup. I saw a post on another thread arguing that lap dances are no big deal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well I know it wasn't me and I believe, maybe hope, that there are many men on this forum like me that don't support that kind of behavior regardless of gender.

I know there are wild people on this forum of both genders, that engage in what many of us, both genders, would consider reckless behavior.

I don't go to strippers and require the same from my wife.

OP's wife would not enjoy him doing the same thing she wanted him to be ok with. Double standard on her part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> There's nothing for him to clear up. He expressed his discomfort and his wife agreed not to go, but that's apparently not enough. He's po'd that she even wanted to go and the fact that she wanted to go apparently makes her a $%#@# in the eyes of many here.


Well, it at least makes her a little bit hypocritical to desire something she would not want her husband to do.

I think some folks jumped to all sorts of conclusions without more evidence but others made like she was going to Disney Land and missed her hypocrisy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

ConanHub said:


> Well I know it wasn't me and I believe, maybe hope, that there are many men on this forum like me that don't support that kind of behavior regardless of gender.
> 
> I know there are wild people on this forum of both genders, that engage in what many of us, both genders, would consider reckless behavior.
> 
> I don't go to strippers and require the same from my wife.
> 
> OP's wife would not enjoy him doing the same thing she wanted him to be ok with. Double standard on her part.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It wasn't you. I don't recall seeing that she would not be ok with it, though you might be right; I do recall him saying he doesn't do it because he doesn't think it appropriate.

I agree that it isn't appropriate and I wouldn't go to such a party. I just don't think she should be penalized for wanting to go if she agreed not to.

I'm not upset that my hb thought a strip club with the neighbors would be fun because in the end he didn't go. Though admittedly if he did that might open the door to reciprocal behavior from me because a little empathy goes a long way.

But if she'd be upset with the reverse then that is not kosher.


----------



## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> It wasn't you. I don't recall seeing that she would not be ok with it, though you might be right; I do recall him saying he doesn't do it because he doesn't think it appropriate.
> 
> I agree that it isn't appropriate and I wouldn't go to such a party. I just don't think she should be penalized for wanting to go if she agreed not to.
> 
> I'm not upset that my hb thought a strip club with the neighbors would be fun because in the end he didn't go. Though admittedly if he did that might open the door to reciprocal behavior from me because a little empathy goes a long way.
> 
> But if she'd be upset with the reverse then that is not kosher.


Yeah. In his first post, OP mentioned his wife would not be happy if the situation was reversed. She needs to do a little soul searching on that point, I think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdawg2015

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. In his first post, OP mentioned his wife would not be happy if the situation was reversed. She needs to do a little soul searching on that point, I think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



It's like asking for a favor, instead of an enthusiastic ok sure no problem, you get a pause and they go, "ok, fine"

Just like how you ask a question, how a person responds also carries weight.


----------



## jdawg2015

lifeistooshort said:


> There's nothing for him to clear up. He expressed his discomfort and his wife agreed not to go, but that's apparently not enough. He's po'd that she even wanted to go and the fact that she wanted to go apparently makes her a $%#@# in the eyes of many here.


If you husband asked for a FMF threesome, and you said no and he said ok no worries.

Would you not wonder about the thought process of your husband?

How a person replies a definitely something that can ALWAYS be interpreted.

If a spouse says ILYBNILWY, do we not interpret meaning from the words beyond what was said?

My goodness you a picking at nits to say a person can't feel like a response was not genuine. Because that's what this case is. He felt the wife's desire to not go was not genuine. You're really missing the point.


----------



## lifeistooshort

jdawg2015 said:


> If my husband asked for a FMF threesome, and you said now and he said ok no worried.
> 
> Would you not wonder about the thought process of your husband?
> 
> How a person replies a definitely something that can ALWAYS be interpreted.
> 
> If a spouse says ILYBNILWY, do we not interpret meaning from the words beyond what was said?
> 
> My goodness you a picking at nits to say a person can't feel like a response was not genuine. Because that's what this case is. He felt the wife's desire to not go was not genuine. You're really missing the point.


I'm not missing anything, she did want to go. But she agreed not to. 

These examples you mention are not equal; threesomes and ilybnilwu are not in the same bucket as wanting to go to a bachelorette party.

Just as many men like to argue that watching porn and enjoying strip clubs are not the same as wanting to cheat or bring on a third party. Is a guy avoiding porn simply because his wife doesn't like it to be chastised because he wanted to watch it?

Not all things that are inappropriate for marriage are equal.

The only thing I find uncool is her not wanting him to do these things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdawg2015

It's clear to me you just want to argue and twist this into men vs women thing.

These items are totally equivalent because we are discussing thought process. It's all the same.

I would totally think it reasonable that a wife would be irked that she had to tell her husband she viewed porn as cheating. Even if he complies, you don't think she's wonder what it is that he likes about it? 

It's the exact same thing as OP. He's got brain cells wondering why she's so keen to go.

What I see is you are making this a male vs female issue.




lifeistooshort said:


> I'm not missing anything, she did want to go. But she agreed not to.
> 
> These examples you mention are not equal; threesomes and ilybnilwu are not in the same bucket as wanting to go to a bachelorette party.
> 
> Just as many men like to argue that watching porn and enjoying strip clubs are not the same as wanting to cheat or bring on a third party. Is a guy avoiding porn simply because his wife doesn't like it to be chastised because he wanted to watch it?
> 
> Not all things that are inappropriate for marriage are equal.
> 
> The only thing I find uncool is her not wanting him to do these things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

jdawg2015 said:


> It's clear to me you just want to argue and twist this into men vs women thing.
> 
> These items are totally equivalent because we are discussing thought process. It's all the same.
> 
> I would totally think it reasonable that a wife would be irked that she had to tell her husband she viewed porn as cheating. Even if he complies, you don't think she's wonder what it is that he likes about it?
> 
> It's the exact same thing as OP. He's got brain cells wondering why she's so keen to go.
> 
> What I see is you are making this a male vs female issue.


You're entitled to see whatever you want to see. 

I've said that I don't think this is appropriate marital behavior, and I've also said that my hb didn't go to a bachelor party strip club when he could. Is it fair for me to be po'd that he thought it might be fun?

Lots of people don't do things they'd like to do because it would upset their spouse. That's marriage.

I just don't think one should be penalized for thoughts. If that's he case every guy who thinks a threesome would be fun should be penalized just for thinking it, which isn't fair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

jdawg2015 said:


> I would totally think it reasonable that a wife would be irked that she had to tell her husband she viewed porn as cheating. Even if he complies, you don't think she's wonder what it is that he likes about it?


 If a guy did not view porn out of respect for his spouse, it would be unreasonable for a wife to be be irked at her husband just for wanting to see it. If a guy is single and would like to have sex with a very pretty coworker, that would be normal. Once he gets married, it does not change that he still thinks that coworker is pretty, and that he still would like to have sex with her, that would also be normal; all that has changed is that he would not have sex with the coworker out of respect for his spouse and his marriage. You need to judge your spouse by their actions and their respect for you, not by them having normal desires. 



jdawg2015 said:


> It's the exact same thing as OP. He's got brain cells wondering why she's so keen to go.


 Of course she would want to go. It would be a fun time with her friends. The fact that she wants to go and does not go out of respect for her spouse is a good thing that he needs to appreciate.


----------



## jdawg2015

Word choice matters. I would not use the word "po". But I think it's coy to say there are thoughts your husband would share with you that would not make you take pause as to what the subconscious meaning could me. It's actually the reading of subconscious thoughts and statements that is the very foundation of where TAM helps. This is why I am making such a fuss about the things you are posting in this thread. 

As for penalized for thoughts being ok or not depends on the details. If your husband told you he was having a fantasy of another woman while shagging you, would you be ok with that? :wink2:




lifeistooshort said:


> You're entitled to see whatever you want to see.
> 
> I've said that I don't think this is appropriate marital behavior, and I've also said that my hb didn't go to a bachelor party strip club when he could. Is it fair for me to be po'd that he thought it might be fun?
> 
> Lots of people don't do things they'd like to do because it would upset their spouse. That's marriage.
> 
> I just don't think one should be penalized for thoughts. If that's he case every guy who thinks a threesome would be fun should be penalized just for thinking it, which isn't fair.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdawg2015

Yet TAM is filled with women who get upset because their husbands look at porn.

TAM is filled with spouses upset about their keeping photos of exes around.

I could go on and on with examples.

OP irked the fact that his wife is keen to go. That also is not unreasonable as long as he doesn't villfy her for it and it appears he is not. But is he being punished by you folks for having his thoughts as well. Irony much?




TRy said:


> If a guy did not view porn out of respect for his spouse, it would be unreasonable for a wife to be be irked at her husband just for wanting to see it. If a guy is single and would like to have sex with a very pretty coworker, that would be normal. Once he gets married, it does not change that he still thinks that coworker is pretty, and that he still would like to have sex with her, that would also be normal; all that has changed is that he would not have sex with the coworker out of respect for his spouse and his marriage. You need to judge your spouse by their actions and their respect for you, not by them having normal desires.
> 
> Of course she would want to go. It would be a fun time with her friends. The fact that she wants to go and does not go out of respect for her spouse is a good thing that he needs to appreciate.


----------



## bandit.45

Blah blah blah...


Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....


Blah blah?

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!!!

Blah....


----------



## ConanHub

TRy said:


> If a guy did not view porn out of respect for his spouse, it would be unreasonable for a wife to be be irked at her husband just for wanting to see it. If a guy is single and would like to have sex with a very pretty coworker, that would be normal. Once he gets married, it does not change that he still thinks that coworker is pretty, and that he still would like to have sex with her, that would also be normal; all that has changed is that he would not have sex with the coworker out of respect for his spouse and his marriage. You need to judge your spouse by their actions and their respect for you, not by them having normal desires.
> 
> Of course she would want to go. It would be a fun time with her friends. The fact that she wants to go and does not go out of respect for her spouse is a good thing that he needs to appreciate.


How about if the wife would be mad at her husband for viewing porn, which he wouldn't do, but wanted to view it herself?

Double standard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Do not worry. She IS going. I just hope the OP keeps us updated on how those conversations go. I also can't WAIT for the games to begin.

"The OP's wife said she wanted to go, the OP calmly expressed his concerns, she readily agreed not to".

Is that how you think that conversation went? How cute. 

33 pages says it's NOT how that conversation went. As well as one of the FEW follow-up posts from the OP stating "she probably will end up going, I won't fight it".

I really wish all of you making up your own realities on this would stop.

And for the record, I am the ONLY one continually bringing this back to the OP. I'm the only one NOT hijacking this thread.


----------



## jdawg2015

Yup. After you pointed out how she probably will end up going that most of us glanced over.

This will come down to how hard her friends push her. If she say's not going cause hubby not thrilled and they say we understand then it's A-OK. If they push her with the "don't let him control you" and wifey makes it an issue, then this will be forever an issue.



MachoMcCoy said:


> Do not worry. She IS going. I just hope the OP keeps us updated on how those conversations go. I also can't WAIT for the games to begin.
> 
> "The OP's wife said she wanted to go, the OP calmly expressed his concerns, she readily agreed not to".
> 
> Is that how you think that conversation went? How cute.
> 
> 33 pages says it's NOT how that conversation went. As well as one of the FEW follow-up posts from the OP stating "she probably will end up going, I won't fight it".
> 
> I really wish all of you making up your own realities on this would stop.
> 
> And for the record, I am the ONLY one continually bringing this back to the OP. I'm the only one NOT hijacking this thread.


----------



## *LittleDeer*

Such a long thread. I went to Vegas just over a year ago, and didn't get drunk or have sex. Sad really 😂 
the OPs wife is not wrong for wanting to go. It's very different to viewing porn or thinking about having sex with a co worker, the equivalent would be her viewing porn or thinking about having sex with a co worker. 
He is not wrong for having reservations about the trip either.


----------



## straightshooter

Well, at this point, no one knows what will happen here because apparently this little trip is not scheduled for a little bit.

But what did happen is that the OP clearly stated the following

THAT THIS GROUP OF FRIENDS WOULD NOT DENY THAT THEY ARE GOING TO LAS VEGAS TO DO EVERYTHING THAT HE FEELS UNCOMCORTABLE WITH, AND THAT HE WAS NOT HAPPY WITH

What then occurred is he was immediately accused of being a jealous controlling husband and not having the right to do more than beg her not to go and that he was silly to make a big deal out of it. No attention paid to him as her husband having the right to not be comfortable with it, no attention paid to him stating she would not be ok with him doing this, and no attention paid to him Turing down the opportunity to do the same thing.

To the guys
(1) these girlfriends are NOT ****s. The are single women with the right to do what they want to. MARRIED WOMEN give up the right to behave the same way when they march down the aisle. Notice I said BEHAVE the way they intend to by his words.
(2) most women do not get laid on GNO or go looking to get laid every time they go anywhere without their husbands
(3) just because she wanted to go does not necessarily mean she had bad intentions, BUT she owes him an explanation of WHY she feels this is so important knowing how he feels about her going

To the women
(1) the OP does not care h ow many bachelorette parties you have been to without grabbing some guys **** ( congratulations for your good behavior and that of your friends) He did not ask for testimonials of the great morals of YOUR social circle
(2) most men, not all, would not be thrilled with this trip for its stated puropose, and again how about some respect for OPs description of what the girlfriends say they are going to do. It does not make a Damm bit of difference about how YOUR husband would feel
(3) while the guys should STOP generalizing about women's behavior in general, stop refusing to accept the reality that a lot of affairs DO start this way, or certainly inappropraite behavior, because all that shows is you have not read much on any infidelity forum. How about accepting OP'S statement that he is concerned she could be influenced by the environment. HE SAID THAT . That does not make him San untrusting controlling pig. He lives with her, and he did NOT say he is thrilled with her doing this at home, he just said she does it ONCE IN A WHILE GOING OUT WITH THESE GIRLFRIENDS.
(4) And how about stopping the crap that he should just suck it up because she might resent not being able to play single life with her friends for a week end. Maybe communicating and compromising with her husband is the better course of action.

This silly party week end should not ruin a relationship but if she just tells him to go screw and she's going anyway it will have a long term effect. He did not DEMAND anything so far,. He told her he is not comfortable with her going, she reluctantly said OK, but I do not see how some keeps assuming she is not going until the "peer " pressure starts if it is going to and the week end comes and goes .


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Stop being so rational. We'll have none of that here.


----------



## TRy

jdawg2015 said:


> Yet TAM is filled with women who get upset because their husbands look at porn.
> 
> TAM is filled with spouses upset about their keeping photos of exes around.
> 
> I could go on and on with examples.


 In direct response to my stating that "If a guy did not view porn out of respect for his spouse, it would be unreasonable for a wife to be be irked at her husband just for wanting to see it", you replied "Yet TAM is filled with women who get upset because their husbands look at porn". In my example the husband wanted to look at porn but did not view porn out of respect for his spouse, in your counter example women "get upset because their husbands look at porn". Do you not see the obvious and major difference between my example where they stopped looking at porn, and your example where they still continued to look at porn?

This can also be said with your second example where the husband kept "photos of exes around". I would not blame the husband for wanting to keep photos of exes around as long as he in fact got rid of them out of respect for his spouse. You "could go on and on with examples", but as long as you miss the point that there is a major difference between wanting to do something but not doing it out of respect for your spouse, and wanting to do something and doing it regardless of your spouse, your examples will continue to not make sense.


----------



## TRy

ConanHub said:


> How about if the wife would be mad at her husband for viewing porn, which he wouldn't do, but wanted to view it herself?
> 
> Double standard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 That would indeed be a double standard, and I would strongly disagree with the wife on that if that were the case, but it is not (unless I missed something). 

I have a lot of respect for you ConanHub, and know that this is not your intent, but please do not let this get turned into another male vs female issue by others (and you know who they are).


----------



## wmn1

marduk said:


> It's not good.
> 
> But you also can't stop her. I know; I tried.
> 
> Set boundaries. Have her call you every night.
> 
> And plan a boys trip to Vegas and let her know it's coming.
> 
> That's all that really worked for me. After my boys trip, suddenly she "got it."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This !!!!!!!

DJ,


Look how she says she understands but gets angry. Put her in your shoes and take a boys trip out there.

BTW, bachelorette parties are not good. In vegas, it's even worse. They sometimes are what you hear about. You have to set big time boundaries. Then when you take your trip, and she tries to invite herself on it, stand strong.

I am hopeful her background and morals keeps her above the fray because there is a lot of smut in Vegas. She can't let her friends (the single ones) push her.

I think you'll be fine but this is a life lesson for her.

Good luck Keep us updated


----------



## ConanHub

TRy said:


> That would indeed be a double standard, and I would strongly disagree with the wife on that if that were the case, but it is not (unless I missed something).
> 
> I have a lot of respect for you ConanHub, and know that this is not your intent, but please do not let this get turned into another male vs female issue by others (and you know who they are).


I'm not promoting gender wars but OP's wife would not like him going on a trip she desired to.

She definitely has a bit of a double standard to work through.

Her own personal double standard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OpenWindows

Perhaps I misread the opening post. But I got the impression that she wanted to go, he said he didn't like it and asked how she would feel if he did it... Then she thought about it and realized she wouldn't be very happy.

He never said she wouldn't allow him to go (he turned down his offer by himself). She said she wouldn't be very happy about it... kind of like she wants to go even though he's not thrilled.

I didn't see it as a double standard, because she never said she would stop him from going. I saw a case of her wanting him to allow something he's not thrilled with. Kind of like how some of us aren't thrilled about porn use, but allow it inside of certain boundaries.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

OpenWindows said:


> kind of like she wants to go even though he's not thrilled.


WOW. Ya' THINK?

You finally got that after 33 pages?


----------



## MachoMcCoy

OpenWindows said:


> Kind of like how some of us aren't thrilled about porn use, but allow it inside of certain boundaries.


Now you're getting it. 

I wish you would talk to my wife. I usually end up at Kim's Spa at 1AM most Saturday nights. I TELL her it's when my old football injury usually acts up, but she thinks I'm just going there for the hand-job at the end. My response:

WHAT?!? You have a problem with me getting relief on my old war wound just because SOME MEN go to Kim's for a happy ending?

FINALLY. After 33 pages, we're hitting some common ground.


----------



## Cosmos

OpenWindows said:


> Perhaps I misread the opening post. But I got the impression that she wanted to go, he said he didn't like it and asked how she would feel if he did it... Then she thought about it and realized she wouldn't be very happy.
> 
> He never said she wouldn't allow him to go (he turned down his offer by himself). She said she wouldn't be very happy about it... kind of like she wants to go even though he's not thrilled.
> 
> I didn't see it as a double standard, because she never said she would stop him from going. I saw a case of her wanting him to allow something he's not thrilled with. Kind of like how some of us aren't thrilled about porn use, but allow it inside of certain boundaries.


This is exactly how I read it, too...

It seems to me that some will see exactly what they want to see in order to project their own angst and issues onto the OP's W...

We only know what the OP has told us. His W is not going to the shindig in Vegas. If she changes her mind, that will be another matter altogether, but hopefully she won't be quite so foolish.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Cosmos said:


> His W is not going to the shindig in Vegas.


Your side making up your own reality is annoying. How you can take a spoiled little girl saying: "FINE: I won't go if you won't let me. THERE!!! Happy now?" as her "agreeing not to go". 

Plus: The VERY LAST post this OP made:



Djkool said:


> I doubt its over. I wont bring it up again to her, but I'm sure when the bride finds out, $hit will hit the fan. Its still two or three months away and there will be much talk of it. I don't think I'll put up much of a fight. She already knows how I feel about it. If she goes, I'll probably get over it... maybe I wont. In a way, I feel like it might free me a little bit, as I'm always doing whats best for my family and putting myself second.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why you all insist "She's not going anyway!" is just...

...bizarre.


----------



## Divinely Favored

bandit.45 said:


> This got me to thinking of that male poster who had a thread here a while back. He and his wife had been married thirty plus years and she goes and organizes a bachelorette party wherein she uses their joint account to hire a male stripper. This lady I think was late 40's early 50s. Anyway, this lady was the perfect wife and mother, pillar of her community, church goer, etc...
> 
> She ends up blowing the stripper in front of the cheering crowd of ladies. If I recall I think the bride did too.
> 
> To make things worse, she never gave her husband BJs, compounding his humiliation.
> 
> What was his name? Anyone have the link to that thread?


Ultimate Sucker.........

She was like 54-55 and married 35 yrs. They had a BJ party where several women participated. He has filed divorce on her for having the 21 yr olds **** in her mouth. They have a son that age. She was like it was nothing, get over it, they all did it.

Some of the women walked out and left when things went side ways. He even let the groom know the bride(SIL) was doing a BJ on stripper to. By grooms reaction he got busy at his party also. I damn sure would not marry her and if I did when they got to kiss the bride I would say "nope".


----------



## OpenWindows

MachoMcCoy said:


> Your side making up your own reality is annoying. How you can take a spoiled little girl saying: "FINE: I won't go if you won't let me. THERE!!! Happy now?" as her "agreeing not to go".


I must have missed OP's post containing that bit of attitude from her. I saw where she wanted to go, she said she wouldn't go, and where he said it wasn't over. But nothing about her pitching a fit over it. He seems to describe her as pretty reasonable.

Maybe there's lots of people making up realities here...


----------



## Cosmos

Originally Posted by *MachoMcCoy *


> Your side making up your own reality is annoying. How you can take a spoiled little girl saying: "FINE: I won't go if you won't let me. THERE!!! Happy now?" as her "agreeing not to go".





OpenWindows said:


> I must have missed OP's post containing that bit of attitude from her. I saw where she wanted to go, she said she wouldn't go, and where he said it wasn't over. But nothing about her pitching a fit over it. He seems to describe her as pretty reasonable.
> 
> Maybe there's lots of people making up realities here...


You didn't miss it, OpenWindows. No matter how some would like us to believe he did, this _isn't_ what the OP told us. :smile2:


----------



## wmn1

straightshooter said:


> *Ultimately, yes I am worried she might get really drunk, and possibly do something stupid. The attitude is "what happens in vegas stays in vegas" right? All of the girls are good looking, and i think they will get the attention of a lot of guys. 2000 miles away from home, nobody to answer to, maybe a guy she finds really attractive starts hitting on her... like i said, i'm probably letting my imagination get the best of me.
> *
> 
> DJ
> 
> Smart thinking. Probably 99% of those that do something inappropriate in these situations have no intention of it happening. But mix in alcohol, and probably a lot of it, and a bunch of girlfriends urging her to "have fun", and a club full of guys trying to get her number , and all it takes is one bad decision with a LOT of opportunity.
> 
> The simple fact I s that your wife should explain to you why going away for a few nights with a bunch of her friends, more single than married who want to party and relive Spring Break, is something she really has a need to do.
> 
> This little bachelorette week end is not just having a male stripper in for an hour. It is 72 hours or more of partying with no accountability at all.
> 
> Unless you are doing the same thing, your not being comfortable with it should be enough for her to not go and not act like you are some kind of controlling freak.
> 
> This new double standard that seems to be out there that anything women do is just good clean girl fun and guys are pigs for doing the same thing is getting old.
> 
> I would try to have a rational, honest discussion with her as to why she does not see why you are uncomfortable. If she really really wants to go, why does being in that environment without you and have guys pursuing her appeal to her.
> 
> Just my opinion. I know some will differ.


Exactly !!!!


----------



## MachoMcCoy

OP made 11 posts, all on this thread, between 1/11 and 1/13. Last time he logged in was 1/16. So a minimum of three days he watched this thread grow. Surely after that, he realized he didn't need to log in to get further updated, so he could still be checking daily. Surely is. I wonder why he won't respond.


----------



## wmn1

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> If my man didn't mind that I had a drunken night with girl friends, and even with a male stripper, I would wonder if he respected me, or cherished me. It would make me wonder if he respected himself to be fine with his woman oogling over a naked, gyrating man.
> 
> She is not respecting you because you do not have firm boundaries.


I agree. 

One drunken night is one thing but a stripper crosses the line either for a married woman or someone in a committed relationship.

Plus when you add a drunken state and a naked hot guy, even more lines get crossed.

I haven't read through this entire thread yet but OP should never tolerate the stripper thing


----------



## Cosmos

wmn1 said:


> I haven't read through this entire thread yet but OP should never tolerate the stripper thing


You might want to skim through it, wmn, because this thread has actually taken on a life of its own. :wink2:


----------



## wmn1

Djkool said:


> Thank you everybody for the responses. I'm a bit surprised and thought everyone would say to support her going, which just seems crazy to me.
> 
> I didnt say this in my original post, because I wanted to get peoples perspectives on the situation and thought maybe i was being unreasonable, but she already agreed not to go.
> 
> I felt guilty about it though. I felt like a stick in the mud... kind of like a fun ruiner.
> 
> Thank you everybody for your thoughtful answers. I don't feel so crazy now for feeling this way. I just didnt really have anybody to talk to about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



this is good news. It shows she respects you and isn't being hypocritical.

Don't feel bad. Would you rather feel badly because you got betrayed (not a reflection of her but a reflection of the situation) or feel badly because you were a stick in the mud (which BTW you aren't being)


----------



## wmn1

DoneWithHurting said:


> F-uck that bull.
> No, she should not go because YOU are uncomfortable with it.
> She should not go because she should know you would be uncomfortable with it.
> She should have told you about it and told you she isn't going, without you having to say anything.
> 
> My wife and I just went to a party at a new potential business partners home. She came out from her dressing room in a sexy/****ty/HOT outfit all happy and proud.
> I told her it was too see through for an event of this kind. She was pissed, went back to change, decided against it and we went.
> She was happy. I was pissed. I stayed away from her at the party and made some great Biz connections.
> Came home, had a huge fight.
> If she pulls this nonsense again, she can go alone and come home to a bolted door.
> However, I have had reason not to fully trust from previous behavior.
> If I were in your shoes, I would have done exactly the same thing as you.



ouch !!!!!

I hope things are better. I am sorry she didn't respect your boundaries.


----------



## wmn1

straightshooter said:


> The OP has already stated that this group of friends had no intention of being wall flowers and that they were a "hard partying crowd", so the idea that this was going to be a "cultural" expedition is not relavant.
> 
> How about the fact that if you ask every BH or BW if they "trusted" their spouse BEFORE the infidelity, the overwhelming response would have been "I trusted my spouse completly". If that is all you need is trust, why the hell is everyone here talking to people who have been cheated on.
> 
> We are all human and no one is immune to making a major mistake given the right conditions. OP has every right not to be comfortable with this organized "let's go shake our asses for men" excursion that is going to last for days.
> 
> JUst for the record, I think if you are a woman and your husband finds some need to go spend your family's money throwing dollar bills and more at strippers who think he is a pig except for his money, you also have the right to tell him that has to stop.
> 
> This OP is reasonable. He would not probably have posted here is this was just bringing in a male stripper for a 30 minute entertainment in the home city.
> 
> I just can't get over this attitude out there that it is just good old girls fun to have strange men chasing you around a club all night, buying you drinks, or trying to entice you into something that can ruin your life. Yes it can happen at the grocery store., but that is stupid to compare.
> 
> If you follow sports, you will know that all coaches and managers spend hours looking for tendencies of opponents to determine the odds of a play being successful. Business managers do the same thing.
> 
> If anyone does not think the odds of his wife increase by purposely putting herself into that environment with enabling friends for three days is any reason to be concerned, I do not know how your thought process works.
> 
> Blind trust is what allowed all those of us who have been betrayed to get blindsided. And, no, my wife did not cheat in a GNO so that is not what has formed my opinion. This trip is a great fun thing for SINGLE AND DIVORCED WOMEN. If his wife needs that to be happy, her need for ego kibbles will eventually morph into something else. This kind of thing is what's cool in Cosmopolitan, but if you read the books on infidelity, most I have read rank these separate vacations, separate, hobbies that involve travel without your spouse continually, and constant GNO or BNO as right behind the workplace as the new incubators of infidelity.
> 
> Sorry for the rant, but OP I am glad your wife had decided not to go, and I hope you two have honest and open discussions about this because she should not be forming resentment. You are not telling her not to do stuff with any friends. You are telling her you are not comfortable with her joining the single life for a week end in Las Vegas.



very well put and LMAO 'cultural expedition'. That's awesome. Yep they were going here

Art in Las Vegas


I've been to vegas 5 times, every single time with the wife. Some casino, some shows on the strip, Lake Mead and the Hoover Dam, the NASCAR race but no smut. I have been observant though and I see groups of people who were at these types of parties on the prowl more often than not.

You are right Straightshooter, the bachelor/ette stuff in vegas is not innocent. I have observed poor behavior by these groups and what I saw was probably the tip of the iceberg. Other stories from friends as well.

DJ dodged one here, whether or not anything would have happened. The 'not knowing' would just stretch the pain



I've been to


----------



## wmn1

New_Beginnings said:


> Lol, why does everything have to be stripper oriented for a bachorlette????? Smh.. These responses grow louder and louder of how your minds are warped into "saving"someone (your spouse) to not cheat. Really?
> 
> If your spouse wants to cheat, alchohl or not it will happen. With or without Vegas. Maybe I don't view Vegas as some holy sin ground because I'm not a going out kind of person.
> 
> This is more than boundaries. Saying don't go isn't a boundary, it's an order. What about bars? Vacations to family? Are those boundary pushers too? I didn't have a bachorlette it's not important to me, but I don't think a time away should be labeled as " a time my partner will sin".


Ever been there ? Ever observe what happens there ? Add alcohol and peer pressure to the mix and you don't think it increases the likelihood ?

Ever observe the lack of morality that surrounds these events nowadays ? including in vegas ? Put them all together and add people's personal experiences here and you have the answer as to why people are like this.

Obviously you don't know


----------



## wmn1

MachoMcCoy said:


> You seem smart. Tell me this? Why Vegas?


no credible answer. You hit the nail on the head. Why vegas ? 

We know why. I don't know why others could have their head in the sand and not know


----------



## wmn1

MichelleR said:


> If I were invited to a party like that I'd say no without even discussing it with my husband. If she's out with all single women who are enjoying getting hit on by all these men, she will either 1. Be completely innocent and faithful and also bored and jealous that everyone else gets to have all the fun or 2. Relaxed and join in on the flirting and maybe do something that's inappropriate.
> 
> If her friends were married it would be different because they'd probably keep each other in check and seek our more innocent activities to do for fun. But I wouldn't feel okay with this at all.
> 
> 
> In case this interests you I went to a bachelorette party for my sister in laws wedding. It's the only one I've been to. My husband also went out for a bachelors party the same night. From what I heard from my husband they ended up having a bad time whereas we got hit in like CRAZY! My sister in law had to keep an eye on me because my inhibitions were down because I drank too much. Honestly if she hadn't been there and mindful of my marriage I might have done something stupid. I know that sounds awful to admit but it's why I avoid situations like that on purpose now.
> 
> Of course you can't forbid her, she's her own person and you're not her boss but you can make it very clear to her how inappropriate you think this is. She may respect you more for showing her that you care and feel normal healthy levels of jealousy.


well put and from experience. Everyone can face the situation in a weakened state. You have boundaries Michelle and thanks for sharing> Others lack boundaries and are more vulnerable


----------



## wmn1

bandit.45 said:


> This got me to thinking of that male poster who had a thread here a while back. He and his wife had been married thirty plus years and she goes and organizes a bachelorette party wherein she uses their joint account to hire a male stripper. This lady I think was late 40's early 50s. Anyway, this lady was the perfect wife and mother, pillar of her community, church goer, etc...
> 
> She ends up blowing the stripper in front of the cheering crowd of ladies. If I recall I think the bride did too.
> 
> To make things worse, she never gave her husband BJs, compounding his humiliation.
> 
> What was his name? Anyone have the link to that thread?


disillusioned14


----------



## wmn1

samyeagar said:


> Group think, group IQ, and herd mentality are a real thing. I remember that thread, but don't remember who it was.
> 
> A real life experience though...a guy I work with...he was getting married, really big wedding, all the trappings, and his fiance was having three bachelorette parties. One on the east coast, one in the mid west, and one in Vegas so that she could celebrate with all her friends, and include the ones who couldn't make it to the midwest wedding.
> 
> Well, at the first bachelorette party, they had a stripper, the booze was flowing, and long story short, she ended up topless with the stripper lathering her boobs with whipped cream using his d1ck. It didn't go any further than that, but why the guy I work with found out a week later through Facebook, I was astounded that none of the women, as in not one, including the brides married mother, really thought it was that bad. They admitted it may have been a bit out of hand, but it was just good fun, and not that big of a deal. Predictably, he was called controlling, jealous, all of that when he called off the wedding pending some changes. She kicked and screamed about having to cancel the other parties as a condition of the wedding being back on.


What she did was out of hand. It is cheating. And to think that he had to find out on facebook and then get blameshifted by being called controlling etc... 

She sounded like a spoiled brat. Boobs with whipped cream and a guys D rubbing on her as step one, what is step 2 and 3 ?

With friends like that and a mother like that, his fiance had loose morals. he should have stuck to his guns and called it off all together.

Good fun and drunkedness can cross lines. Your story here should be heeded by others who feel this can't happen


----------



## wmn1

Cosmos said:


> You might want to skim through it, wmn, because this thread has actually taken on a life of its own. :wink2:


I see that now after I posted several times. 

Wow Cosmos. It did I think I'll read the rest of it and move on


----------



## wmn1

WonkyNinja said:


> I think you misunderstood the OP.
> 
> The bachelorette party is going for clubs and drinking. It's the massage parlors in Vegas that are famous for having a happy ending. :grin2:
> 
> and according to this thread anyone who ever goes for a massage will get a happy ending whether they wanted one or not. :smile2:



ha. Massage parlors ?? What about every hotel and club there too.

Or did you conveniently forget about those ? or have you ever been to Vegas ?


----------



## wmn1

MachoMcCoy said:


> OP made 11 posts, all on this thread, between 1/11 and 1/13. Last time he logged in was 1/16. So a minimum of three days he watched this thread grow. Surely after that, he realized he didn't need to log in to get further updated, so he could still be checking daily. Surely is. I wonder why he won't respond.



I know. His last post felt like a capitulation or retreat from his position.

If she goes, there will be bad behavior there most likely as even the study Divinely Favored posted reflects as well as the personal experiences of many here. OP would be wise to stand his ground.

I read this entire thread but then posted a lot of thoughts I had after the fact. It seemed to take a turn for the worse when there was a women vs men war here, even though I thought the argument against her going won out and that some had a 'head in the sand' approach.

I am on the side of those who feel that these parties are bad news and useless. 

DJKool will be back in 3 months or not at all but it is an important thought provoking thread.


----------



## WonkyNinja

wmn1 said:


> ha. Massage parlors ?? What about every hotel and club there too.
> 
> Or did you conveniently forget about those ? or have you ever been to Vegas ?


The big grin and the smiley face were intended to show that my post wasn't supposed to be taken literally but was more of a tongue in cheek comment intended to add a little light humor into the thread..

I'll include the [ CHEEK] and [/ CHEEK] tags in future posts for your benefit.

No didn't forget and yes but a long time ago.


----------



## wmn1

WonkyNinja said:


> The big grin and the smiley face were intended to show that my post wasn't supposed to be taken literally but was more of a tongue in cheek comment intended to add a little light humor into the thread..
> 
> I'll include the [ CHEEK] and [/ CHEEK] tags in future posts for your benefit.
> 
> No didn't forget and yes but a long time ago.


My bad. My apologies. Ouch.

And no need to add the extra tags


----------



## Djkool

wmn1 said:


> I know. His last post felt like a capitulation or retreat from his position.
> 
> If she goes, there will be bad behavior there most likely as even the study Divinely Favored posted reflects as well as the personal experiences of many here. OP would be wise to stand his ground.
> 
> I read this entire thread but then posted a lot of thoughts I had after the fact. It seemed to take a turn for the worse when there was a women vs men war here, even though I thought the argument against her going won out and that some had a 'head in the sand' approach.
> 
> I am on the side of those who feel that these parties are bad news and useless.
> 
> DJKool will be back in 3 months or not at all but it is an important thought provoking thread.


I have been reading all the posts, and definitely appreciate everyone's input. I haven't added anything, because everything seems to be going good. She doesn't seem bothered by it, and I sense no resentment. Like I said, i never demanded that she didn't go. I told her to do what she wants, but I didn't downplay how I felt about it. And yes, I am most appreciative of what she's done, and will always make sure I take her into consideration on things that I do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

Cosmos said:


> This is exactly how I read it, too...
> 
> It seems to me that some will see exactly what they want to see in order to project their own angst and issues onto the OP's W...
> 
> We only know what the OP has told us. His W is not going to the shindig in Vegas. If she changes her mind, that will be another matter altogether, but hopefully she won't be quite so foolish.


I'm seeing exactly what was posted.

If my wife wanted to do something that she didn't want me doing that is easily a double standard.

She really does need to examine herself a little because maybe she just wasn't thinking very hard about the issue.

OP knew she wouldn't want him to do what she wanted to way before the bachelorette party was an idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OpenWindows

OP, maybe you could plan a little weekend getaway for the same weekend as the bachelorette party. It will give you guys something fun to do together. And having a trip to look forward to will make it easier for her to ignore the bride's requests to come along to Vegas. Everybody wins! :wink2:


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## Cosmos

ConanHub said:


> I'm seeing exactly what was posted.
> 
> If my wife wanted to do something that she didn't want me doing that is easily a double standard.
> 
> And it would be. No one's saying the OP's W is a saint, but so far she isn't a sinner, either...
> 
> She really does need to examine herself a little because maybe she just wasn't thinking very hard about the issue.
> 
> Obviously she wasn't, initially, but fortunately she _did _and chose not to go. If they're a young couple (and I get this impression), this situation was probably one of life's many learning curves for her.
> 
> 
> OP knew she wouldn't want him to do what she wanted to way before the bachelorette party was an idea.
> 
> 
> And even though the idea appealed to her, _initially_, she thought better of it. Lots of things appeal to me, but I'm old enough and sensible enough not to follow through on all of them.
> 
> Are you suggesting that the OP's W should be somehow punished for even_ thinking_ of going?


----------



## JohnA

Or come home with a single white rose. Some think the white represents purity. In the case of a rose it does not. White light is a combination of all colors. A white rose represents the best of every color rose, friendship, passion, enduring love.


----------



## bandit.45

JohnA said:


> Or come home with a single white rose. Some think the white represents purity. In the case of a rose it does not. White light is a combination of all colors. A white rose represents the best of every color rose, friendship, passion, enduring love.


You are a guy....right?


----------



## ConanHub

Absolutely no punishment.

Soul searching and some communication with OP should do the trick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cosmos

ConanHub said:


> Absolutely no punishment.
> 
> Soul searching and some communication with OP should do the trick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, it sounds like this has already happened. 

In fact it sounds like it happened even before the OP started this thread... 

And as a result thereof, she isn't going on the trip.


----------



## bandit.45

Djkool said:


> I have been reading all the posts, and definitely appreciate everyone's input. I haven't added anything, because everything seems to be going good. She doesn't seem bothered by it, and I sense no resentment. Like I said, i never demanded that she didn't go. I told her to do what she wants, but I didn't downplay how I felt about it. And yes, I am most appreciative of what she's done, and will always make sure I take her into consideration on things that I do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Much ado about nothing. 

Sounds like you have a very kool wife. I think a surprise trip to a day spa for a massage and makeover for her and a girlfriend is in order.


----------



## straightshooter

DJ,

Doing nice things for your wife is a good idea, and you should do them and probably have trip conversation or no trip conversation.

But I'm just a "C" student I guess, but I think you said the trip is out there in the future. You did a great job by expressing your feelings clearly and rationally and it APPEARS she understands and accepts what you feel.

Let's hope that all remains the same IF and WHEN the peer pressure starts when the actual trip date approaches and her friends start talking about why she is not going. I hope it all remains the same as now at that time.

You made your feelings know. She APPARENTLY accepted it, but how about her explanation as to why it appealed to her so much. My guess is this will not be vthe last excursion this crew takes, and you obviously have SOME reservations about their behavior as a group, and just because she goes out with them once in a while does not change your feelings about them.

I think the three days in Vegas or anywhere given your feelings were for you an issue, but the one thing I am a little confused about is if you think this "party girl" crowd could put your wife into a situation where here boundaries would be tested in a way that you were not comfortable , how does Vegas make a difference. If you do not think the worst nightmares for you could not happen between 9PM and 3AM at your LOCAL meat market bar in a car or hotel that is a mistake. If you are not bothered by these friends doing whatever they do that is fine, but if you are you need to have honest discussions about that also.

Communicating and discussion are the keys to staying married. That is the lesson learned. Had you just sucked it up and kept your mouth shut you would have been brooding for three or four days and she would have had no idea why.

So I would say at this point you have a successful resolution but until this trip date goes by and there is no backtracking or resentment then, I am not ready to heap all this congratulations on your wife for her great decision on something that has not occurred yet. If the current situation holds true, then she gets an "A" 

In the meantime, buy her the flowers anyway but DO NOT tie it to her decision to not go. It should be something you want to do because you love her, not to bride her and reward her for making a decision that should not have come up in the first place since she would not have been Ok with you doing the same thing.


----------



## wmn1

well put Cosmos. I also agree with Conan. In the end, our SO's should treat us the way they want to be treated and it seems like DJKool's did in the end. I like what you said, a learning experience for a young couple.

I have agreed with DJKool's stance from the moment I looked at this thread. I am not the biggest B Party person because of all the horror stories and because I have been to Vegas multiple times. 

One of the best ways to avert trouble in any relationship is to foresee it and prepare for it accordingly. That was done by Kool in this case. I applaud him for that.

This is no reflection on his W. Maybe she would have been the type to walk out when the poor behavior arrived (if it would have arrived) but sadly between peer pressure and intoxication, many do not, including many good people who make that one mistake they have to live with. I know many of these people. These B parties I don't like or get. You know what I did for mine ? Fishing trip with some of the guys. You know what we did ? We fished. Caught 5 brown trout, 3 rainbows and a brook. We hung out at the resort bar that night, smoked stogies and watched back to back NHL games. My wife went to visit friends in Ohio, stayed at her Mom's house, went to Longaberger basket , outlet shopping and then went out to dinner at a local establishment. No smut. On either side. Now, I wouldn't even have one. I never understood why someone who is close to getting married needs some stripper to smother them. If the other person didn't like a naked guy/woman to be all over their SO 3 months earlier, why is it ok a week before you get married ? I know one couple who made a joint one. Then her girlfriends asked him to leave so a stripper could come in. WHO DOES THAT ? He refused, they badgered him, he looked at her and said 'what are you going to do ?' She stayed for it despite his hurt and then acted like it was water under the bridge the rest of the day. He maintained his composure, buddied up and vented to a couple of his friends and then at the end of the night, when the bride's sister and Mom told him "just let it go, it was all in fun", he replied "maybe for her and you, but not to me. Wedding is off".This is eerily similar to Sam's story, her friends turned against him badly, his friends stood by him as did his family and 6 months later, after she distanced herself from those friends and after she had a 'coming to God moment', he took her back in but the wedding was delayed for 3 years total. Now, she is as hard against these types of parties as I am. And theirs was supposed to be a joint one. Hard story. I couldn't make it due to work but I would have obstructed the thing big time. Again who does that ??

I fear for society's immorality and it seems like an uphill climb for many to keep that garbage out of our lives.

In the end, DJkool's wife made the right call and hopefully sticks with it as I would have been more 'line in the sand' than Kool was.

So I agree Cosmos that both should be applauded and both can learn from this experience. 

Fortunately, Kool had good people like Conan, you and others supporting him here. I am glad he got the affirmation that what he did was right.

Sorry to be so long winded


----------



## Cosmos

wmn1 said:


> One of the best ways to avert trouble in any relationship is to foresee it and prepare for it accordingly. That was done by Kool in this case. I applaud him for that.


Healthy marital boundaries are a must, IMO. They will be different from one couple to another, of course, but establishing them early on can head off a lot of 'misunderstandings' and unnecessary angst in a relationship.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

bandit.45 said:


> I think a surprise trip to a day spa for a massage and makeover for her and a girlfriend is in order.


Before or after the Vegas trip?


----------



## EllisRedding

bandit.45 said:


> Much ado about nothing.
> 
> Sounds like you have a very kool wife. I think a surprise trip to a day spa for a massage and makeover for her and a girlfriend is in order.


Instead, I say surprise her with a stripper at the house (so he doesn't get into trouble better make sure the stripper is for her and not him lol) >


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## OpenWindows

EllisRedding said:


> Instead, I say surprise her with a stripper at the house (so he doesn't get into trouble better make sure the stripper is for her and not him lol) >


So nobody gets into trouble... Maybe HE should be the stripper! :wink2:


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## syhoybenden

OpenWindows said:


> So nobody gets into trouble... Maybe HE should be the stripper! :wink2:



Otherwise you're a total hypocrite.


----------



## OpenWindows

syhoybenden said:


> Otherwise you're a total hypocrite.


LOL... I think OP said he didn't have a problem with strippers, just drunk Vegas partying.

But I mean, if we really think she might want to blow a stripper, then hubby taking on the job sounds like a win-win!

:rofl:


----------



## ConanHub

Cosmos said:


> Well, it sounds like this has already happened.
> 
> In fact it sounds like it happened even before the OP started this thread...
> 
> And as a result thereof, she isn't going on the trip.


I actually never made a concern that she was after she said she wouldn't go.

I just understood why OP was disappointed with her point of view, not her actions, about the trip.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

wmn1 said:


> well put Cosmos. I also agree with Conan. In the end, our SO's should treat us the way they want to be treated and it seems like DJKool's did in the end. I like what you said, a learning experience for a young couple.
> 
> I have agreed with DJKool's stance from the moment I looked at this thread. I am not the biggest B Party person because of all the horror stories and because I have been to Vegas multiple times.
> 
> One of the best ways to avert trouble in any relationship is to foresee it and prepare for it accordingly. That was done by Kool in this case. I applaud him for that.
> 
> This is no reflection on his W. Maybe she would have been the type to walk out when the poor behavior arrived (if it would have arrived) but sadly between peer pressure and intoxication, many do not, including many good people who make that one mistake they have to live with. I know many of these people. These B parties I don't like or get. You know what I did for mine ? Fishing trip with some of the guys. You know what we did ? We fished. Caught 5 brown trout, 3 rainbows and a brook. We hung out at the resort bar that night, smoked stogies and watched back to back NHL games. My wife went to visit friends in Ohio, stayed at her Mom's house, went to Longaberger basket , outlet shopping and then went out to dinner at a local establishment. No smut. On either side. Now, I wouldn't even have one. I never understood why someone who is close to getting married needs some stripper to smother them. If the other person didn't like a naked guy/woman to be all over their SO 3 months earlier, why is it ok a week before you get married ? I know one couple who made a joint one. Then her girlfriends asked him to leave so a stripper could come in. WHO DOES THAT ? He refused, they badgered him, he looked at her and said 'what are you going to do ?' She stayed for it despite his hurt and then acted like it was water under the bridge the rest of the day. He maintained his composure, buddied up and vented to a couple of his friends and then at the end of the night, when the bride's sister and Mom told him "just let it go, it was all in fun", he replied "maybe for her and you, but not to me. Wedding is off".This is eerily similar to Sam's story, her friends turned against him badly, his friends stood by him as did his family and 6 months later, after she distanced herself from those friends and after she had a 'coming to God moment', he took her back in but the wedding was delayed for 3 years total. Now, she is as hard against these types of parties as I am. And theirs was supposed to be a joint one. Hard story. I couldn't make it due to work but I would have obstructed the thing big time. Again who does that ??
> 
> I fear for society's immorality and it seems like an uphill climb for many to keep that garbage out of our lives.
> 
> In the end, DJkool's wife made the right call and hopefully sticks with it as I would have been more 'line in the sand' than Kool was.
> 
> So I agree Cosmos that both should be applauded and both can learn from this experience.
> 
> Fortunately, Kool had good people like Conan, you and others supporting him here. I am glad he got the affirmation that what he did was right.
> 
> Sorry to be so long winded


Sam's story??? Link or share??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cosmos

ConanHub said:


> I actually never made a concern that she was after she said she wouldn't go.
> *
> I just understood why OP was disappointed with her point of view, not her actions, about the trip.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I guess the OP has realised that (like most of us) his W isn't perfect.

I don't know about you but, even at my advanced age, I'm a work in progress, and one thing that I've learned in life is that nothing's written in stone. I continue to learn, grow and develop new points of view and tolerance all the time.


----------



## samyeagar

samyeagar said:


> Group think, group IQ, and herd mentality are a real thing. I remember that thread, but don't remember who it was.
> 
> A real life experience though...a guy I work with...he was getting married, really big wedding, all the trappings, and his fiance was having three bachelorette parties. One on the east coast, one in the mid west, and one in Vegas so that she could celebrate with all her friends, and include the ones who couldn't make it to the midwest wedding.
> 
> Well, at the first bachelorette party, they had a stripper, the booze was flowing, and long story short, she ended up topless with the stripper lathering her boobs with whipped cream using his d1ck. It didn't go any further than that, but why the guy I work with found out a week later through Facebook, I was astounded that none of the women, as in not one, including the brides married mother, really thought it was that bad. They admitted it may have been a bit out of hand, but it was just good fun, and not that big of a deal. Predictably, he was called controlling, jealous, all of that when he called off the wedding pending some changes. She kicked and screamed about having to cancel the other parties as a condition of the wedding being back on.





samyeagar said:


> And they are actively encouraged to do so. Hell, some of my wife's friends went and saw the Chippendales, and a few of them posted some pictures from the after show meet and greet, and the favorite pose was the woman bending over with the guy grinding her from behind with his hands on her ass and the "whoopsie" smirk on her face. The other popular pose was them standing next to each other with his hand on her boob, and her hand on his crotch. And that was average married women between 35 and 45, in a big open public venue. Yeah, I'm not ok with that.





ConanHub said:


> Sam's story??? Link or share??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most likely these two. Pretty classic examples of things I have seen. Perfectly average, normal women, nothing nefarious initially intended, but things going downhill, but hey...it was all in good fun right?


----------



## Cosmos

Originally Posted by* samyeagar *


> Group think, group IQ, and herd mentality are a real thing. I remember that thread, but don't remember who it was.
> 
> A real life experience though...a guy I work with...he was getting married, really big wedding, all the trappings, and his fiance was having three bachelorette parties. One on the east coast, one in the mid west, and one in Vegas so that she could celebrate with all her friends, and include the ones who couldn't make it to the midwest wedding.
> 
> Well, at the first bachelorette party, they had a stripper, the booze was flowing, and long story short, she ended up topless with the stripper lathering her boobs with whipped cream using his d1ck. It didn't go any further than that, but why the guy I work with found out a week later through Facebook, I was astounded that none of the women, as in not one, including the brides married mother, really thought it was that bad. They admitted it may have been a bit out of hand, but it was just good fun, and not that big of a deal. Predictably, he was called controlling, jealous, all of that when he called off the wedding pending some changes. She kicked and screamed about having to cancel the other parties as a condition of the wedding being back on.


That has to be _the_ most vulgar behaviour I've ever heard of, and I can only think that she and her cronies were a bunch of chemically challenged ********.

Why did he call off the wedding "pending some changes?" Surely he didn't marry her after that revolting exhibition?


----------



## ConanHub

samyeagar said:


> Most likely these two. Pretty classic examples of things I have seen. Perfectly average, normal women, nothing nefarious initially intended, but things going downhill, but hey...it was all in good fun right?


I remembered after I posted but I want wmn1 to share the story that he referred to in his post about the wedding being called off for 3 years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

Cosmos said:


> Originally Posted by* samyeagar *
> 
> That has to be _the_ most vulgar behaviour I've ever heard of, and I can only think that she and her cronies were a bunch of chemically challenged ********.
> 
> Why did he call off the wedding "pending some changes?" Surely he didn't marry her after that revolting exhibition?


Totally agree. She was showing she was still a kind of disgusting, single party favor and not even girlfriend material.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

Cosmos said:


> Well, I guess the OP has realised that (like most of us) his W isn't perfect.
> 
> I don't know about you but, even at my advanced age, I'm a work in progress, and one thing that I've learned in life is that nothing's written in stone. I continue to learn, grow and develop new points of view and tolerance all the time.


No argument there. But when we are wrong, it is good to point out how and why so we can correct it.

Double standards with marital boundaries definitely have a high body count when it comes to broken homes and divorces.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

wmn1;14713514 I know one couple who made a joint one. Then her girlfriends asked him to leave so a stripper could come in. WHO DOES THAT ? He refused said:


> Would really like to read the full version of how everything went down with this story if you don't mind sharing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Cosmos said:


> Originally Posted by* samyeagar *
> 
> That has to be _the_ most vulgar behaviour I've ever heard of, and I can only think that she and her cronies were a bunch of chemically challenged ********.
> 
> Why did he call off the wedding "pending some changes?" Surely he didn't marry her after that revolting exhibition?


They were a bunch of 20 something well educated professionals actually. It was totally out of character for her, but as I pointed out...alcohol, opportunity, group think and peer pressure can lead people to make terrible decisions they would otherwise never in a million years make.

In fact, knowing her, she would have been mortified at the suggestion that anything like that would happen if she was out at a GNO, and likely would not do anything like that at all.

But this...this was her bachelorette party...they are supposed to be wild right? They are supposed to push the envelope right? They are supposed to have hot naked guys right? Last chance to get a little more wild before being a married woman and never having fun again right? Those ARE the things that we are told they are supposed to be, expected to be...and when in Rome...never underestimate the power of suggestion.

The rationale being...they didn't have intercourse, she didn't blow him, wrap her hand around him, and had no emotional attachment, therefore it was just some fun and she didn't cheat.

He called off the wedding until she agreed to drop the rest of the bachelorette parties, and the wedding was delayed six months, but they did end up getting married.


----------



## Cosmos

samyeagar said:


> But this...this was her bachelorette party...they are supposed to be wild right? They are supposed to push the envelope right? They are supposed to have hot naked guys right? Last chance to get a little more wild before being a married woman and never having fun again right? Those ARE the things that we are told they are supposed to be, expected to be...and when in Rome...never underestimate the power of suggestion.


Not in my circle, thank goodness. :wink2:


----------



## wmn1

ConanHub said:


> Would really like to read the full version of how everything went down with this story if you don't mind sharing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ok I will have to type it up when I get time. I won't forget. I will PM it to you


----------



## wmn1

samyeagar said:


> They were a bunch of 20 something well educated professionals actually. It was totally out of character for her, but as I pointed out...alcohol, opportunity, group think and peer pressure can lead people to make terrible decisions they would otherwise never in a million years make.
> 
> In fact, knowing her, she would have been mortified at the suggestion that anything like that would happen if she was out at a GNO, and likely would not do anything like that at all.
> 
> But this...this was her bachelorette party...they are supposed to be wild right? They are supposed to push the envelope right? They are supposed to have hot naked guys right? Last chance to get a little more wild before being a married woman and never having fun again right? Those ARE the things that we are told they are supposed to be, expected to be...and when in Rome...never underestimate the power of suggestion.
> 
> The rationale being...they didn't have intercourse, she didn't blow him, wrap her hand around him, and had no emotional attachment, therefore it was just some fun and she didn't cheat.
> 
> He called off the wedding until she agreed to drop the rest of the bachelorette parties, and the wedding was delayed six months, but they did end up getting married.



good. He stood his ground. Did she ever learn from it or apologize ?


----------



## samyeagar

wmn1 said:


> ok I will have to type it up when I get time. I won't forget. I will PM it to you



Oh, you can't leave all the rest of us hanging


----------



## wmn1

samyeagar said:


> Most likely these two. Pretty classic examples of things I have seen. Perfectly average, normal women, nothing nefarious initially intended, but things going downhill, but hey...it was all in good fun right?


I agree, Sam. Not good with the Chippendale story either. How would those ladies like it if their husbands were getting a naked table dance at a strip joint ? Most, I say most, would be pissed. Considering that many more women think emotions over physical, what if they just told another woman how much they really like them ? Again, they would be pissed. Hypocritical. I am glad your wife avoided that mess. If it was my wife, I'd be pissed. I wonder how their husbands reacted.


----------



## wmn1

OpenWindows said:


> LOL... I think OP said he didn't have a problem with strippers, just drunk Vegas partying.
> 
> But I mean, if we really think she might want to blow a stripper, then hubby taking on the job sounds like a win-win!
> 
> :rofl:


I think OP has a problem with strippers as well. He claimed he didn't but when you read between the lines, I would feel he does.

But I like your thought about it being him


----------



## samyeagar

wmn1 said:


> good. He stood his ground. Did she ever learn from it or apologize ?


After a time. After she was done being very stubborn, defensive, and blame shifting.

I think another piece to all of this is the whole notion of compartmentalizing things that are deemed special occasions, and the mindset that the normal rules don't apply. Take my other example of the normal married women cozying up to the chippendales dancers...I am certain they would not dream of doing the same with just a normal nobody guy...hell even the hot Joe construction worker on a job site with his shirt off...no way they would pose for pictures and grope them and allow themselves to be groped, but because they are strippers, celebrity of a sort, that is just what they are supposed to do..

This all did lead to an interesting conversation with my wife. She and I did see both situation differently. She did acknowledge that both were likely in bad taste, she didn't see them nearly as badly as I did.

She admitted that she may have acted similarly in both situations, because in a complete vacuum, neither was all that bad. What showed me that she gets it though was that she agreed that those things aren't happening in a vacuum because they have their spouses feelings to consider.

In our case, my wife knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bachelorette party incident would have been an instant deal breaker for me, and I would have walked without looking back. The chippendales thing, she knows wouldn't likely be a deal breaker for me, but would have a strong negative impact on me and our relationship. That's why she turned it down for herself without a second thought, and without any hard feelings or resentment.


----------



## samyeagar

wmn1 said:


> I agree, Sam. Not good with the Chippendale story either. How would those ladies like it if their husbands were getting a naked table dance at a strip joint ? Most, I say most, would be pissed. Considering that many more women think emotions over physical, what if they just told another woman how much they really like them ? Again, they would be pissed. Hypocritical. I am glad your wife avoided that mess. If it was my wife, I'd be pissed. *I wonder how their husbands reacted*.


Poorly in my opinion. A few made some tongue in cheek passive aggressive digs on the pictures that expressed they weren't happy, but they were also very careful not to trigger being shamed by being called controlling, jealous.


----------



## wmn1

ConanHub said:


> I remembered after I posted but I want wmn1 to share the story that he referred to in his post about the wedding being called off for 3 years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ok here goes. 


One of my buddies from high school was getting married in NJ. He was more of laid back, just 'taking everything in' type of guy. He met a woman from a competing company who was a bit of a wild thing. her family was too. Loose morals crowd. I warned him about this. He was a friend but not my best friend. His name is Gary. When the time came to get married, he didn't really want a bachelor party and she wanted a big 'ette' in NYC. He wasn't thrilled with it because her family was wild (2 sisters and even Mom) and she had a number of friends who were 'easy'. He stood his ground and she caved and gave up on the big NYC party. With about a month left before the wedding, they said "why don't we get a bunch of friends and younger family members together and have our own party'. He agreed. Little did he know that one of her sisters and two of her friends were pissed about the NYC blowoff and was hellbent on seeing staripper themselves. They scheduled it. At the party, his soon to be wife got trashed. According to the guys who I know that were there, I am talking .2 trashed. (keep in mind, her family and friend base are about 3x his)The stripper showed, the girlfriend who set it up then asked him to leave so a stripper could come in. As I said WHO DOES THAT ? Obviously this trashed woman did. None of her friends thought it was inappropriate. Many of his friends who I know are cuckolds and didn't protest. He refused, they badgered him. Calling him controlling, saying how it wasn't a good idea to piss the wife off before the wedding etc.. He looked at her and said 'what are you going to do ?' fully expecting her to say 'no stripper'. She gave him a smile and didn't respond. He asked againa nd then got angry and left.She stayed for it (45 minutes and from the noise it sounded like the girls had a'blast'. The guys re-enetred the room. The cuckolds weren't happy either but Gary was pissed. Despite his hurt and it was obvious he was livid according to my friends there, (and yes 2 of my friends put up resistance) She acted like it was water under the bridge the rest of the night like nothing happened. He later found out she fondled the stripper and two of the women blew him. He maintained his composure, buddied up and vented to a couple of his friends and then at the end of the night, when he and his soon to be were leaving to go home, they stopped where Mom was sitting and the bride's sister and Mom told him "just let it go, it was all in fun", he replied "maybe for her and you, but not to me. Wedding is off". She screamed and yelled at him to the point where several people had to calm the situation down. Over the next few days, her friends trashed him on twitter, facebook, told her to dump this 'controlling POS' while his friends stood by him as did his family. She listened to her friends, assumed it was 'over' and moved out and back in with Mom and Dad. 6 months later, she came around to her senses and see what she lost (is my guess). She distanced herself from those friends and after she had a 'coming to God moment', and pleaded him to take her back in. She 'changed'. He took her back in after a few weeks of thought. Gary is not the most forgiving guy and I don't blame him. He told her when she moved out that the engagement was off. He took back the ring. He went out with her for a year after she moved back in and then did an extended engagement of two years thereby delaying the wedding three years. Even though the party she screwed up at was a 'joint' one, they both agreed no bachelor/ette parties the next time. Funny enough, years later, when I do see these people, and I do keep in touch, we talk about the immorality of society and the topic has come up and she hates these types of party concepts now. Probably because such behavior cost her three years of marriage. They remain happily married to this day though Gary is not very tight with Mom and sister of his wife, Clara. As I said, I couldn't make it due to work but I would have obstructed the thing big time. 


That's the story as it was told to me by him, her and the mutual friends who were there.

It seems to be very bold that people would do that but wild people with immoral backgrounds sometimes don't give a crap, just like the people on these boards who cheat in front of their husbands/wives and flaunts it in their faces, things people like us wouldn't do.

I hope this explains the story Conan


----------



## Cosmos

wmn1 said:


> I agree, Sam. Not good with the Chippendale story either. * How would those ladies like it if their husbands were getting a naked table dance at a strip joint ? Most, I say most, would be pissed.* Considering that many more women think emotions over physical, what if they just told another woman how much they really like them ? Again, they would be pissed. Hypocritical. I am glad your wife avoided that mess. If it was my wife, I'd be pissed. I wonder how their husbands reacted.


It would be a deal breaker for me, that's for sure. 

I remember stating this in another Vegas or BNO thread a few years back that if my SO indulged in this sort of behaviour he would be kicked to the kerb. Guess what? I was called jealous, controlling and insecure!


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## wmn1

samyeagar said:


> After a time. After she was done being very stubborn, defensive, and blame shifting.
> 
> I think another piece to all of this is the whole notion of compartmentalizing things that are deemed special occasions, and the mindset that the normal rules don't apply. Take my other example of the normal married women cozying up to the chippendales dancers...I am certain they would not dream of doing the same with just a normal nobody guy...hell even the hot Joe construction worker on a job site with his shirt off...no way they would pose for pictures and grope them and allow themselves to be groped, but because they are strippers, celebrity of a sort, that is just what they are supposed to do..
> 
> This all did lead to an interesting conversation with my wife. She and I did see both situation differently. She did acknowledge that both were likely in bad taste, she didn't see them nearly as badly as I did.
> 
> She admitted that she may have acted similarly in both situations, because in a complete vacuum, neither was all that bad. What showed me that she gets it though was that she agreed that those things aren't happening in a vacuum because they have their spouses feelings to consider.
> 
> In our case, my wife knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bachelorette party incident would have been an instant deal breaker for me, and I would have walked without looking back. The chippendales thing, she knows wouldn't likely be a deal breaker for me, but would have a strong negative impact on me and our relationship. That's why she turned it down for herself without a second thought, and without any hard feelings or resentment.


cool. Thanks for sharing, Sam. I feel badly for the guy because he took a lot of ****e when he did nothing wrong.

I don't always agree with my wife though we always put each other in the other's shoes and make decisions based on that. It sounds like you have a similar situation which is great.

You are right that people tend to compartmentalize. Even when they are wrong, it sometimes makes them ignore the obvious. 

And I shared the story above


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## naiveonedave

samyeagar said:


> Poorly in my opinion. A few made some tongue in cheek passive aggressive digs on the pictures that expressed they weren't happy, but they were also very careful not to trigger being shamed by being called controlling, jealous.


that really sucks. I could not be forced to be treated like that, it would have to come out in some way....


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## wmn1

samyeagar said:


> Poorly in my opinion. A few made some tongue in cheek passive aggressive digs on the pictures that expressed they weren't happy, but they were also very careful not to trigger being shamed by being called controlling, jealous.


I hate the 'controlling' accusations that some make.

It is like they are justifying bad behavior by threatening to defame or criticize. It's another form of blame shifting. 

I like your answer to it above


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## wmn1

Cosmos said:


> It would be a deal breaker for me, that's for sure.
> 
> I remember stating this in another Vegas or BNO thread a few years back that if my SO indulged in this sort of behaviour he would be kicked to the kerb. Guess what? I was called jealous, controlling and insecure!


No, Cosmos, it means that you have good, strong moral character that many in society should have but don't. Good for you. And I agree with your assessment whole heartedly. It's those who labeled you who we should all be worried about


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## bandit.45

That surprises me about the Chippendales. I didn't think they allowed those guys to pose with the audience members in that way. 

Chippendale's are to male review what Hooter's is to sports bars. I read they are a bit more tame and a bit more strict with the behaviors of the employees than the average male review. But then again I'm no authority on male reviews.


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## samyeagar

wmn1 said:


> I hate the 'controlling' accusations that some make.
> 
> *It is like they are justifying bad behavior by threatening to defame or criticize. It's another form of blame shifting*.
> 
> I like your answer to it above


In most cases, this is exactly spot on. People often respond defensively when called out on poor behavior. Part of that defensiveness is vilifying the person who called them out, shaming them, and essentially bludgeoning them into submission with words. Essentially an adult temper tantrum.


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## samyeagar

bandit.45 said:


> That surprises me about the Chippendales. I didn't think they allowed those guys to pose with the audience members in that way.
> 
> Chippendale's are to male review what Hooter's is to sports bars. I read they are a bit more tame and a bit more strict with the behaviors of the employees than the average male review. But then again I'm no authority on male reviews.


During the actual shows, yeah, but they do have the after party meet and greet.

Actually, come to think of it, it may have been thunder down under....makes no difference really.


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## Cosmos

wmn1 said:


> No, Cosmos, it means that you have good, strong moral character that many in society should have but don't. Good for you. And I agree with your assessment whole heartedly. It's those who labeled you who we should all be worried about


I just shake my head and pray for the children of such people. They're going to have to create their own moral compasses one day, because their parents obviously don't even know that they exist...


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## wmn1

Cosmos said:


> I just shake my head and pray for the children of such people. They're going to have to create their own moral compasses one day, because their parents obviously don't even know that they exist...


I agree. I see such indifference out of the milennials. Very scare


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## EllisRedding

samyeagar said:


> Group think, group IQ, and herd mentality are a real thing. I remember that thread, but don't remember who it was.
> 
> A real life experience though...a guy I work with...he was getting married, really big wedding, all the trappings, and his fiance was having three bachelorette parties. One on the east coast, one in the mid west, and one in Vegas so that she could celebrate with all her friends, and include the ones who couldn't make it to the midwest wedding.
> 
> Well, at the first bachelorette party, they had a stripper, the booze was flowing, and long story short, she ended up topless with the stripper lathering her boobs with whipped cream using his d1ck. It didn't go any further than that, but why the guy I work with found out a week later through Facebook, I was astounded that none of the women, as in not one, including the brides married mother, really thought it was that bad. They admitted it may have been a bit out of hand, but it was just good fun, and not that big of a deal. Predictably, he was called controlling, jealous, all of that when he called off the wedding pending some changes. She kicked and screamed about having to cancel the other parties as a condition of the wedding being back on.


I remember that female, you have no idea how long it took for me to get the whipped cream off afterwards ... >

Seriously, quite a disturbing situation ...


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## jb02157

If I had an attractive wife, I would be very wary of this as you are. Women would think it's controlling but it's not a good idea on several levels, first of all it would make you wonder what she's up to whether you trust her or not, second I wonder just how safe Vegas is for a bunch of women to go get smashed. I would worry that a bunch of guys would see them as a target for a gang rape. While on the surface it seems like a lot of fun, but there are plenty of things that could go wrong. 

I also wonder what her reaction would be if you wanted to party in Vegas with a bunch of your friends. I bet she wouldn't let you go. There's always a double standard here, when a guy says to his wife not do do something, even if it's dangerous, it's always looked at as controlling, but when the shoe is one the other foot, all of the sudden it's not controlling anymore.


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## Cosmos

jb02157 said:


> If I had an attractive wife, I would be very wary of this as you are. Women would think it's controlling but it's not a good idea on several levels, first of all it would make you wonder what she's up to whether you trust her or not, second I wonder just how safe Vegas is for a bunch of women to go get smashed. I would worry that a bunch of guys would see them as a target for a gang rape. While on the surface it seems like a lot of fun, but there are plenty of things that could go wrong.
> 
> I also wonder what her reaction would be if you wanted to party in Vegas with a bunch of your friends. I bet she wouldn't let you go. * There's always a double standard here, when a guy says to his wife not do do something, even if it's dangerous, it's always looked at as controlling, but when the shoe is one the other foot, all of the sudden it's not controlling anymore.*


Having healthy marital boundaries is NOT being controlling, jealous or insecure - no matter which gender you belong to.


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## Miss Independent

jb02157 said:


> If I had an attractive wife, I would be very wary of this as you are. Women would think it's controlling but it's not a good idea on several levels, first of all it would make you wonder what she's up to whether you trust her or not, second I wonder just how safe Vegas is for a bunch of women to go get smashed. I would worry that a bunch of guys would see them as a target for a gang rape. While on the surface it seems like a lot of fun, but there are plenty of things that could go wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> I also wonder what her reaction would be if you wanted to party in Vegas with a bunch of your friends. I bet she wouldn't let you go. There's always a double standard here, when a guy says to his wife not do do something, even if it's dangerous, it's always looked at as controlling, but when the shoe is one the other foot, all of the sudden it's not controlling anymore.



If you had an unattractive wife, you wouldn't care?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub

wmn1 said:


> ok here goes.
> 
> 
> One of my buddies from high school was getting married in NJ. He was more of laid back, just 'taking everything in' type of guy. He met a woman from a competing company who was a bit of a wild thing. her family was too. Loose morals crowd. I warned him about this. He was a friend but not my best friend. His name is Gary. When the time came to get married, he didn't really want a bachelor party and she wanted a big 'ette' in NYC. He wasn't thrilled with it because her family was wild (2 sisters and even Mom) and she had a number of friends who were 'easy'. He stood his ground and she caved and gave up on the big NYC party. With about a month left before the wedding, they said "why don't we get a bunch of friends and younger family members together and have our own party'. He agreed. Little did he know that one of her sisters and two of her friends were pissed about the NYC blowoff and was hellbent on seeing staripper themselves. They scheduled it. At the party, his soon to be wife got trashed. According to the guys who I know that were there, I am talking .2 trashed. (keep in mind, her family and friend base are about 3x his)The stripper showed, the girlfriend who set it up then asked him to leave so a stripper could come in. As I said WHO DOES THAT ? Obviously this trashed woman did. None of her friends thought it was inappropriate. Many of his friends who I know are cuckolds and didn't protest. He refused, they badgered him. Calling him controlling, saying how it wasn't a good idea to piss the wife off before the wedding etc.. He looked at her and said 'what are you going to do ?' fully expecting her to say 'no stripper'. She gave him a smile and didn't respond. He asked againa nd then got angry and left.She stayed for it (45 minutes and from the noise it sounded like the girls had a'blast'. The guys re-enetred the room. The cuckolds weren't happy either but Gary was pissed. Despite his hurt and it was obvious he was livid according to my friends there, (and yes 2 of my friends put up resistance) She acted like it was water under the bridge the rest of the night like nothing happened. He later found out she fondled the stripper and two of the women blew him. He maintained his composure, buddied up and vented to a couple of his friends and then at the end of the night, when he and his soon to be were leaving to go home, they stopped where Mom was sitting and the bride's sister and Mom told him "just let it go, it was all in fun", he replied "maybe for her and you, but not to me. Wedding is off". She screamed and yelled at him to the point where several people had to calm the situation down. Over the next few days, her friends trashed him on twitter, facebook, told her to dump this 'controlling POS' while his friends stood by him as did his family. She listened to her friends, assumed it was 'over' and moved out and back in with Mom and Dad. 6 months later, she came around to her senses and see what she lost (is my guess). She distanced herself from those friends and after she had a 'coming to God moment', and pleaded him to take her back in. She 'changed'. He took her back in after a few weeks of thought. Gary is not the most forgiving guy and I don't blame him. He told her when she moved out that the engagement was off. He took back the ring. He went out with her for a year after she moved back in and then did an extended engagement of two years thereby delaying the wedding three years. Even though the party she screwed up at was a 'joint' one, they both agreed no bachelor/ette parties the next time. Funny enough, years later, when I do see these people, and I do keep in touch, we talk about the immorality of society and the topic has come up and she hates these types of party concepts now. Probably because such behavior cost her three years of marriage. They remain happily married to this day though Gary is not very tight with Mom and sister of his wife, Clara. As I said, I couldn't make it due to work but I would have obstructed the thing big time.
> 
> 
> That's the story as it was told to me by him, her and the mutual friends who were there.
> 
> It seems to be very bold that people would do that but wild people with immoral backgrounds sometimes don't give a crap, just like the people on these boards who cheat in front of their husbands/wives and flaunts it in their faces, things people like us wouldn't do.
> 
> I hope this explains the story Conan


Thank you. I'm amazed he didn't move on in those six months and start dating again. Given her attitude and the way her family was bent, it would surprise me if she didn't act out with promiscuous behavior in those six months.

Great story. I would love to interview them to get the personal dynamics of what was going through their minds and how they worked through it and repaired it.

I like Gary, I think. I definitely like that he called off the wedding because of her bad behavior.

I appreciate the story. Believe it or not, I have incorporated many things I have learned here into helping folks IRL.

I will try to find more stories like this because I believe there is much to learn and much I could use to help others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

samyeagar said:


> During the actual shows, yeah, but they do have the after party meet and greet.
> 
> Actually, come to think of it, it may have been thunder down under....makes no difference really.


It probably was Thunder Down Under.

I researched them about 2 years ago when the wife of my friend was making it a tradition to see them every year and even posted pictures of her, her mother and her friend surrounded by strippers, sitting on their laps and being sandwiched between two of them at once.

Nothing as bad as your story but she posted on FB and even had a picture tacked up in her living room.

This woman has two daughters.

Thunder is notorious for touching, being touched, grinding women on stage and other places.

They also have a particularly classy part of their show where they have an elderly woman get up on stage and slip her hand down a strip per's drawers to get a good feel of his package.

I warned my friend about it. I still don't know if he knows what goes on in those shows but he is stupid enough to just see that he gets hot sex after his wife gets worked up by the studs.

Pretty classless, pathetic and unhealthy. 

Going to give her daughters very stupid ideas about what flies in a relationship.

Probably going to land some really "good" men with that warped view instilled in them.

At least after I brought up the potential damage to his daughters, he made her take the picture in his house down.

I think she still has the other pictures up on FB though.

Yuk...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wmn1

spinsterdurga said:


> If you had an unattractive wife, you wouldn't care?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


c'mon. He didn't say that.


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## wmn1

ConanHub said:


> Thank you. I'm amazed he didn't move on in those six months and start dating again. Given her attitude and the way her family was bent, it would surprise me if she didn't act out with promiscuous behavior in those six months.
> 
> Great story. I would love to interview them to get the personal dynamics of what was going through their minds and how they worked through it and repaired it.
> 
> I like Gary, I think. I definitely like that he called off the wedding because of her bad behavior.
> 
> I appreciate the story. Believe it or not, I have incorporated many things I have learned here into helping folks IRL.
> 
> I will try to find more stories like this because I believe there is much to learn and much I could use to help others.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thanks Conan. I thank you for being able to explain it because many wouldn't care. But it is an interesting story.

I think the problem with Gary is that he's surrounded by cuckolds, family and friends.. The exceptions are me, my buddy Frank my bud Dan and his brother. When you have 30 people telling you to do one thing and four telling you otherwise, it's tough. But he's a strong guy and never waved from his convictions on this. 

He has had to lay down the law at times and had to rugsweep at times but she turned around and I am happy for it. She's a good woman who got trapped by negative influences. She fell for it. Now ? She would never compromise her values again. Plus she's very successful and hot(sorry had to say that). They are happy now.

But often the stories dont end up this way. He is the salt of the earth. She's lucky too :grin2:


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## The Middleman

wmn1 said:


> When you have 30 people telling you to do one thing and four telling you otherwise, it's tough. But he's a strong guy and never waved from his convictions on this.


This explains it all. Having strong convections, confidence in yourself that you are doing the right thing and not wavering. She committed a transgression against him and he wouldn't have it; he ended the relationship. AND everyone knew why he called off the marriage (shame factor) There was a consequence to her bad behavior. He only took her back after he was comfortable that she changed (under his terms). 

This is how it should be done under these circumstances ....for either sex.


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## jdawg2015

samy, what you describe it termed gaslighting. 

And you see it A LOT on TAM. The person who's messing around, contacting exes, texting opposite sex friends, etc will turn it on the person who complains about it and tell them they are controlling and jealous. 

This is where TAM can do a great job of helping people see the non sense if they are open to the advice.



samyeagar said:


> In most cases, this is exactly spot on. People often respond defensively when called out on poor behavior. Part of that defensiveness is vilifying the person who called them out, shaming them, and essentially bludgeoning them into submission with words. Essentially an adult temper tantrum.


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## Cosmos

jdawg2015 said:


> samy, what you describe it termed gaslighting.
> 
> And you see it A LOT on TAM. The person who's messing around, contacting exes, texting opposite sex friends, etc will turn it on the person who complains about it and tell them they are controlling and jealous. *
> 
> This is where TAM can do a great job of helping people see the non sense if they are open to the advice.*


Not always... There's currently a thread on TAM where someone's posting about having had an EA many years ago - and even proposed to his AP before his divorce from his first W was final. I don't see many people telling him how wrong he was...

Granted, it all happened 20 years ago (and I _don't _believe people should be jumping all over him), but 2 famililes were sacrificed in the process yet the focus seems to be on the shortcomings of his ex-W, not him.

If the OP was a woman, there would be some very different responses in that thread...


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## EllisRedding

Not quite bachelor themed but still feels appropriate here:


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## BradWesley

EllisRedding said:


> Not quite bachelor themed but still feels appropriate here:


You're a sick man Ellis - but I love it.

HAHA


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## person123

Djkool said:


> I doubt its over. I wont bring it up again to her, but I'm sure when the bride finds out, $hit will hit the fan. Its still two or three months away and there will be much talk of it. I don't think I'll put up much of a fight. She already knows how I feel about it. If she goes, I'll probably get over it... maybe I wont. In a way, I feel like it might free me a little bit, as I'm always doing whats best for my family and putting myself second.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My friend, what's best for your family is that she doesn't end up having a drunken one night stand and blowing everything up.


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## MachoMcCoy

Cosmos said:


> If the OP was a woman, there would be some very different responses in that thread...


Can we give that crap a rest?

PLEASE!


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## naiveonedave

Cosmos said:


> If the OP was a woman, there would be some very different responses in that thread...


I totally disagree with that statement. I would not tell a woman to let her H go to a 3 day stag party in LV with a bunch of single guys. This is a good for the goose is good for the gander thread...


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## samyeagar

naiveonedave said:


> I totally disagree with that statement. *I would not tell a woman to let her H go to a 3 day stag party in LV with a bunch of single guys*. This is a good for the goose is good for the gander thread...


For sure. Women are just as predatory in all of this as men are.


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## Divinely Favored

wmn1 said:


> samyeagar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Group think, group IQ, and herd mentality are a real thing. I remember that thread, but don't remember who it was.
> 
> A real life experience though...a guy I work with...he was getting married, really big wedding, all the trappings, and his fiance was having three bachelorette parties. One on the east coast, one in the mid west, and one in Vegas so that she could celebrate with all her friends, and include the ones who couldn't make it to the midwest wedding.
> 
> Well, at the first bachelorette party, they had a stripper, the booze was flowing, and long story short, she ended up topless with the stripper lathering her boobs with whipped cream using his d1ck. It didn't go any further than that, but why the guy I work with found out a week later through Facebook, I was astounded that none of the women, as in not one, including the brides married mother, really thought it was that bad. They admitted it may have been a bit out of hand, but it was just good fun, and not that big of a deal. Predictably, he was called controlling, jealous, all of that when he called off the wedding pending some changes. She kicked and screamed about having to cancel the other parties as a condition of the wedding being back on.
> 
> 
> 
> What she did was out of hand. It is cheating. And to think that he had to find out on facebook and then get blameshifted by being called controlling etc...
> 
> She sounded like a spoiled brat. Boobs with whipped cream and a guys D rubbing on her as step one, what is step 2 and 3 ?
> 
> With friends like that and a mother like that, his fiance had loose morals. he should have stuck to his guns and called it off all together.
> 
> Good fun and drunkedness can cross lines. Your story here should be heeded by others who feel this can't happen
Click to expand...

I'm sure she gave him a nice warm tongue bath to clean little Willie up.


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## Divinely Favored

The first thought that came to mind was Taken. How many stupid 20 somethings go to Vegas or any major party city and end up drugged and raped or end up on drugs, chained to a bed being continually raped for years in the Sex trafficking industry. 

Stupid, nieve girls. 

I had a parolee once tell me it started bothering him the sexual things he could get 20 yr old girls to do for dope. He was early 50's.

One or more of these young girls may not come back from their 3 day drunken slvtfest. Or return home to they family or boy friends carrying HIV, herpes or hepatitis.


----------

