# Sorry, folks. There's no hope



## keethytheseeker (Dec 1, 2012)

I’ve read a good selection of the contributions on this forum, and the best I’ve got from them is a feeling of relief that I’m not alone in suffering the misery of sexual incompatibility in marriage. Beyond that, I don’t think I’ve got anything positive to offer on the matter, so if you’re looking for a solution to the problem, don’t read any more of this post. 

I’m a sixty eight year old male and I’ve been married for 40 years. You might think I could pass on the wisdom of age. Sorry. This is all I’ve ended up with. My wife and I were kids and young adults throughout the 60’s. Several things might spring to mind on hearing this. Amongst those things, might be that the 60s generation were promised ‘the sexual revolution’! At last, women were to be released from fear of unwanted pregnancy by the birth control pill. Now, their true nature could be revealed. They could enjoy sex, just like men. Forget the strictures of our mothers. Between the past and the present a gap had opened up – the generation gap. The old rules no longer applied. Let joy, peace and freedom rule, and when we’d danced to the Beatles and smoked a joint, we could tumble into bed with each other and Masters and Johnson would guide our fingers to the clitoris! My wife and I did just that and, under the influence of that euphoria, we got married! A white, church wedding, no less, under the watchful eyes of the old generation with all their rules about marital fidelity and family stability! So, the old rules still applied then, despite the 60s free love hype? Yes, and not only that, but a far older set of rules, that influence our social and sexual behaviour – the laws of bio-chemistry.

Neuroscientists have recently been able to scan brain activity using functional magnetic resonance imagery. They have found that the brains of young lovers release large quantities of dopamine, norepinephrine and phenyllethylamine (PEA). These stimulate areas of the brain also affected by amphetamines and cocaine. So when I went into that church in my wedding suit, going back on my principles, I was literally high on the ‘drug of love’. Such a pity the same clever science hadn’t gone into the Pill. The honeymoon wasn’t over before my ‘free love, 60s chick’ was pushing my hands away with complaints of headaches, sore breasts and dry vagina. No wonder the thing stopped unwanted pregnancies! The guys at the gym and in the pub laughed knowingly at this familiar story. Strange! The week before the wedding they were telling me how newlyweds are at it like bunnies for the first few months. There’s mates for you! I’d been duped. The free love hippy had become trapped.
Stressed out at work and sexually frustrated, I made another bad mistake. I got angry! I notice there’s lots of advice out there about taking a firm stance, setting limits, laying down the law, becoming the alpha-male (is that what that phrase means?) My advice is, don’t do it, guys. Even now, my wife can reduce me to tears of shame and self-loathing at some of the things I said and did, then. She remembers them all. 

She came off the Pill and we enjoyed a few brief months of love-making, until she became pregnant. We then entered another stage of marital development. She became the all-knowing mother-figure; I became the insignificant, ignorant male. Thus began a long, long ‘war of attrition’, which I survived from day to day on a combination of vodka and masturbation, until we get to the menopause. 

Some women, we are told, enter a new lease of life in which, relieved of the stress of dividing their lives between the demands of child-rearing and becoming an equal earner, they can rediscover themselves and their husbands, and that this can sometimes include a slower, more gentle, sex life. My wife does not fit into this category. She has become more caring in an organisational sort of way. (She nursed me through cancer caused, she says, by my heavy drinking.) But now her breasts are empty and lifeless and her vagina has dried up painfully. HRT did not work with her any better than the Pill. 

So, let’s just think about all this outside the box for a bit. Who is it who persuades us that we have a right to blissful and fulfilling recreational sex? The plethora of books and articles following the Pill promising a ‘revolution’? The psychoanalysts who said, get rid of that crippling guilt laid on you by authoritarian, child-rearing practices and you can all pleasure your genitals, even Mrs Mary Whitehouse? The ‘romantic film’ industry showing the most sexually attractive men of the time, nibbling their way up the bodies of Renee Zellwegger and Angelina Jolie? (Netflix has a thousand titles in this category.) The porn merchants with their overacting ‘cougars’ and ‘****s’ whose desire, we are led to believe, is to have their faces covered in semen? The researchers, like Nancy Friday, who ‘give a voice to women’s hidden desires’ and reveal that many of them really do want to be raped and have their faces covered in semen? The advertising industry? (I was really turned on by that one with Sophie Dahl fondling one of her own breasts and I expect a million dysfunctional teenagers were, too.) If all that frantic over-stimulation is just so-much money-spinning hype, where does that leave us? Is it that Darwin and the evolutionists have more in common with the Bible-thumpers of old-time religion than we thought. Sex is for procreation, they both say. Move away from that, and you will need to take a Master’s degree in Sex with units on social history, sociology, anatomy, bio-chemistry, endocrinology, psychology and so on, to understand why the whole business, so natural and pleasurable, is so ******* problematic!


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## NeverEnuff (Jan 2, 2013)

"Whether you think you can, or can't, you're probably right.
--Henry Ford


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

i get a kick out of the E.D. ads. so your willy wont get up so you take a pill and your wife will be ready to go when you are.

im always ready without the pill, my wife never is. dichotomy


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

What I've learned from this forum,


To be more alpha male and all that means, is to make more of all the decisions, lead, don't control her but be the captain and don't take her crap. Treat her the same way she treats you. No double standards. Marriage is 50/50, equals in all respects. This has helped me somewhat in general and our sex life but still no drastic changes.


The way sex should be in marriages:

- wife in the mood, husband always says yes and makes the time
- husband in the mood, wife always says yes and makes the time
- if both in the mood, great
- if both not in the mood, fine.


But what should never be happening, if he or she says I'm not in the mood, maybe later, tomorrow, you want it again, etc.!!! That's a marriage deal breaker because the reason he or she got married in the first place was that physical, sexual connection and often.


If there was a way to find out, does she have a high sex drive before we get married? Or does he have a high sex drive before she decides to marry him? That would be the number one thing to keep the divorce rates down to almost nothing.

Too many posts of men and women in sexless, no fantasy marriages and that results in affairs, porn, everything to try and satisfy that individual with the higher healthy sex drive.

And then the men or women with high drives have to read all these books, jump through hoops, bend over, in essence kill their high sex drives in the end, all for a person with a low drive that won't change. People with low drives should never be married or have kids and should be single.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

keethytheseeker said:


> I notice there’s lots of advice out there about taking a firm stance, setting limits, laying down the law, becoming the alpha-male (is that what that phrase means?) My advice is, don’t do it, guys. Even now, my wife can reduce me to tears of shame and self-loathing at some of the things I said and did, then. She remembers them all.


Your write very eloquently, but the above is where you're wrong. From how you describe your marriage, you've always been the beta. Perhaps you tried to alpha up, but did it unsuccessfully. The fact that she makes you cry from what she brings up says as much. An alpha would have the situation reversed and make her cry with what you say. 

I do think some women who are naturally more dominant, make it hard to achieve more power and so men that are married to such women have a difficult time to do so. Since you weren't ever successful doing that, you gave up and allowed your marriage to remain sexless.


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## NeverEnuff (Jan 2, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> The way sex should be in marriages:
> 
> - wife in the mood, husband always says yes and makes the time
> - husband in the mood, wife always says yes and makes the time
> ...


So you believe in "duty" sex? :scratchhead:


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

This isn't duty sex in my opinion. It should be because the husband and wife love each other and should want to be together, whether they're both in the mood, or only one of them is. Not duty sex to me. If it seems like duty sex, then they shouldn't be married in the first place.


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## NeverEnuff (Jan 2, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> This isn't duty sex in my opinion. It should be because the husband and wife love each other and should want to be together, whether they're both in the mood, or only one of them is. Not duty sex to me. If it seems like duty sex, then they shouldn't be married in the first place.


Geez, I can't even relate to that. It's always my goal for a sexual experience to be mutually gratifying.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

If my wifee is in the mood, and I might actually not be in the mood, I do make the time for her and never give her excuses and reject her and in the end, I do enjoy myself as well. I don't tell her, maybe tomorrow, I'm tired, you just got cuddling, etc. If I started doing that, why am I married to her???? You should want to be with your other half and that means often. If you reject your other half often, don't expect a great marriage.


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> The way sex should be in marriages:
> 
> - wife in the mood, husband always says yes and makes the time
> - husband in the mood, wife always says yes and makes the time
> ...


I can't even fathom having a marriage like this. If I'm not in "the mood", it's incredibly painful for me to engage in intercourse, but what you seem to be saying is I should just suck it up and service my partner anyway, despite what can be pretty severe pain? And I;m positive he would hate that type of sex anyway... neither of us really enjoys fooling around if the other isn't into it. 
Honestly, your little guideline seems like a really dysfunctional marriage type to me, but whatever works for you.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

How many hubby' are happy with a low sex drive wife? Never in the mood? Maybe tomorrow? You just got sex a few days ago?

What happens to most marriages in that situation?

Unhappy......Affairs.......divorce.......

A good friend of mine once told me, his girlfriend always made the time for him and he always made the time for her, even if they were tired. They had what I consider one of the best relationships ever. (in their 40's to maybe 50's at the time)

I'm not saying "force" sex but make the time and effort when your other half is in the mood. Your were there in that time of need, versus, maybe tomorrow.......see what I'm trying to say?


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## NeverEnuff (Jan 2, 2013)

Sex should be an expression of your love, not a condition of it.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

IMO, it should be ok to not want to do it if you're not in the mood. I agree that sex is a form of affection and it shouldn't be forced. So not being in the mood is fine. It's only a problem if the rejection is constant, but then both sides should try to figure out why the marriage is becoming sexless, and not just demanding it.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> People with low drives should never be married or have kids and should be single.


Really? While we're at it, let's burn them at the stake.

It's all about honesty & communication. No bait & switch.

If a person has a low sexual drive, then communicate it before marriage. Same with a high drive. Don't "hold back" out of fear.

If a person's drive changes during marriage, communicate that to your partner & try to work up a solution. Stop making up excuses not to have sex.

Mismatched sexual drives need to be honestly talked about & solutions need to be worked on.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

And I believe, counter to the title of this thread, that here is always hope. 
Each couple needs to find their own equilibrium for intimacy and all other aspects of their relationship. 
My first marriage was wonderful for 37 years. I'm in year 2 of number 2 and still learning.
I think we are each our own worst enemy, usually not be truly honest to ourself let alone our spouse.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> The way sex should be in marriages:
> 
> - wife in the mood, husband always says yes and makes the time
> - husband in the mood, wife always says yes and makes the time


Erm, no thanks


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## keethytheseeker (Dec 1, 2012)

Getting back to my original point, why don’t we just say 'no' to all the hype peddlers, the psychologists, the executives of the film industry, the sex researchers, the scientists with their drugs that don’t work, the advertisers and the pornographers, and just have sex to produce happy children? I did not do this! So that’s how I know that chasing dreams of sexual fulfilment just creates pain and misery.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

keethytheseeker said:


> Getting back to my original point, why don’t we just say 'no' to all the hype peddlers, the psychologists, the executives of the film industry, the sex researchers, the scientists with their drugs that don’t work, the advertisers and the pornographers, and just have sex to produce happy children? I did not do this! So that’s how I know that chasing dreams of sexual fulfilment just creates pain and misery.


Keethy, I can see some truths in your statements because you have lived it. Some of your comments remind me of my own parents relationship. They are still together because they made a commitment long ago in a church. They are not happy sexually, but they still have many bonds together, and they continue to work on their relationship.

I can also say that many people do go thru life, dealing with the cards they have been dealt, and make the best of it with a positive attitude. That is me. I'm now 49 and I don't have ALL of the sex that I want, but i keep working on it, and my marriage is actually pretty damn good. Reading the posts on this website have helped me put that in perspective.

Bottom line, I prefer to look at the glass of life as half full. I look at life with optimism and hope....and I believe that being positive will get you further in life...in all aspects...including sex. 

My favorite quote hangs on my bulletin board and i read it every morning to start my day. It is from Christian D. Larson:

"Promise yourself to be so strong that nothing can disturb your peace of mind. Look at the sunny side of everything and make your optimism come true. Think only of the best, work only for the best, and expect only the best. Forget the mistakes of the past and press on to the greater achievements of the future. Give so much time to the improvement of yourself that you have no time to criticize others. Live in the faith that the whole world is on your side as long as you are true to the best that is in you"

This is the way I choose to go thru life, and so far, it has been very good advice!


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## keethytheseeker (Dec 1, 2012)

I Notice the Details, Yes, those are good principles to live by. We should form our own rules early in life and be true to them. I knew then what I know now. That love, kindness, consideration for the feelings of others and gentleness are good things but I allowed my hurt to make me angry. And that I passed on to my children. Your parents stayed together. Were you a happy child?


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

keethytheseeker said:


> I Notice the Details, Yes, those are good principles to live by. We should form our own rules early in life and be true to them. I knew then what I know now. That love, kindness, consideration for the feelings of others and gentleness are good things but I allowed my hurt to make me angry. And that I passed on to my children. Your parents stayed together. Were you a happy child?


Yes....I have always tried to be happy/positive. My parents had 8 children. 6 boys and 2 girls. I was the 4th of 8 kids. Being the middle child helped me get along with everyone. Our entire family is still very close to this day.


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## kjvonly (Jan 3, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> The way sex should be in marriages:
> 
> - wife in the mood, husband always says yes and makes the time
> - husband in the mood, wife always says yes and makes the time
> ...


:iagree:

While everybody is lambasting CuddleBug about this point I happen to agree. I think what they are trying to say has nothing to do with "duty" but "love"... If you love your partner you will WANT to meet their need, that's why they said "the way sex SHOULD be in marriages"

Unfortunately for most of us however it just ain't that way.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

keethytheseeker said:


> Getting back to my original point, why don’t we just say 'no' to all the hype peddlers, the psychologists, the executives of the film industry, the sex researchers, the scientists with their drugs that don’t work, the advertisers and the pornographers, and just have sex to produce happy children? I did not do this! So that’s how I know that chasing dreams of sexual fulfilment just creates pain and misery.


I beg to differ with generalizing your personal experience to the whole of mankind.

The scientific method produces trustworthy results. We have plenty of same through scientific research published in peer reviewed journals. 

People differ in sex drives. News at 10. The most basic result of sex and marriage is that frequency of sex is highest amongst newly married couples and tends to decrease the longer you have been married. 

I was a boy and then adolescent as the 60's matured. The "free love" or any other of those signature aspects was hardly universal. How many people actually practiced "free love"? A tiny minority. Bra burning was mosly symbolic. The vast majority continued to wear them. Etc. The sexual revolution of the 60's has been drastically overstated. 

Condom use has been documented for _thousands_ of years, with animal intestines historically being the most common but a variety of materials have been used. It was generally restricted to the upper classes until the mid-1800's when the vulcanization process made rubber condoms available to middle and eventually the lower classes.

The birth control pill made it easier still, but did not change one of the main advantages of condoms which was prevention for transmission of disease. Syphilis had historically been the most important reason. So here again, birth control pills can hardly be credited with opening women up to the "joy" of sex. 

If one was among the minority that bought into the extreme end of the hype about the 60's - the charicature version - then that is their problem, not the problem of the majority. Very, very few of the 60's teens and 20's went on to live in hippy communes and practice free love, swallowing that charicature version of life.


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## keethytheseeker (Dec 1, 2012)

Wiserforit, As you say, I suppose most people didn’t completely buy into the hype about the 60s. Most youngsters were probably too busy forging a career, buying a house bringing up kids, and so on. I bought into it and, like you say, that was my problem. Maybe, I’m just trying to make sense of the experiences of all the unhappy people on this forum struggling to make their relationships work. They might not all have lived through the 60s hype but something has made them expect more from their relationships than they are getting. Yes, it’s quite wrong to generalise one individual’s view and apply it to the whole of mankind. What do others think?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

What I think this really all boils down to for the OP is a matter of selecting the wrong partner. I'm not saying you picked the wrong person to marry, maybe it was a great marriage for you, but clearly, sexually, you aren't at all compatible.

If you marry someone whom you are closely or even nearly completely compatible with, I doubt you'd have this message to spread.

You can chastize marriage, sex, whatever all you want, but it boils down to a poor choice made in the original selection of a sexual partner. Nothing more.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

keethytheseeker said:


> Wiserforit, As you say, I suppose most people didn’t completely buy into the hype about the 60s. Most youngsters were probably too busy forging a career, buying a house bringing up kids, and so on. I bought into it and, like you say, that was my problem. Maybe, I’m just trying to make sense of the experiences of all the unhappy people on this forum struggling to make their relationships work. They might not all have lived through the 60s hype but something has made them expect more from their relationships than they are getting. Yes, it’s quite wrong to generalise one individual’s view and apply it to the whole of mankind. What do others think?


Good for you. Goodness you showed some character and reasonable thinking there.

This forum isn't representative because it is mostly people with problems coming here rather than people who are too busy being happy. I could blame the personality disorders in the people I chose for mates before, but instead it turned out to be my own bad decisions getting involved with them. I found a warm familiarity with character traits I saw in my childhood that I was using as my model for mates. At the same time I was chosen as a target by manipulative people because I showed what a moron I was.

Most of us are going to find that we need to look into the mirror to see who is responsible for most of what happens in our lives. And it won't just be one decision. It will be a long series of decisions and we have to work on ourselves to make fundamental changes in our character in order to avoid the mistakes from our past.


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## keethytheseeker (Dec 1, 2012)

Kingsfan, Yes, that’s a main point. It is a matter of ‘selecting’ the right partner. But the word ‘selecting’ implies a rational approach. But are we capable of being rational when, as I said earlier, our brains are awash with chemicals that stimulate those parts of the brain governing the euphoria of falling in love? And, yes, I fell for the 60s anti-authoritarian message which told that generation that we could have wonderful sex without being driven into marriage by fear of pregnancy. But there are plenty of other forms of hype out there, shaping our attitudes and expectations to sex. I certainly have no wish to ‘chastize’ marriage. I think there’s enough serious research, let alone our personal experiences, to tell us that children are happiest in families where there are two adults in a stable relationship, both representing good role models. But with 32% of women and 14% of men suffering from hypoactive sexual desire disorder, it would seem that sexual desire is not as widespread as we might have thought. Perhaps, you can do the maths that calculate the odds of ‘selecting’ a sexually compatible relationship, but I’d say they weren’t that high. That would be why some societies where marriages are arranged in order to safeguard property and increase wealth, practise concubinage but that, and other forms of prostitution, is exploitative of women. So, what would a rational society do to ensure the stability of family but cater for sexual desires that remain unsatisfied by the adult family relationship?


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## jnyu44 (Feb 13, 2012)

while I doubt the validity of OP's claim, I certainly appreciate the post and sympathize a lot. Seems like great relationships are hard to come by...and probably with very good reason.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> Good for you. Goodness you showed some character and reasonable thinking there.
> 
> This forum isn't representative because it is mostly people with problems coming here rather than people who are too busy being happy. I could blame the personality disorders in the people I chose for mates before, but instead it turned out to be my own bad decisions getting involved with them. I found a warm familiarity with character traits I saw in my childhood that I was using as my model for mates. At the same time I was chosen as a target by manipulative people because I showed what a moron I was.
> 
> Most of us are going to find that we need to look into the mirror to see who is responsible for most of what happens in our lives. And it won't just be one decision. It will be a long series of decisions and we have to work on ourselves to make fundamental changes in our character in order to avoid the mistakes from our past.


I'd agree that this forum is not necessarily representative of the general population. A
In addition the explosion of social media like this brings to the surface many things already happening but just makes them more apparent. The actual percentages of people in unhappy relationships may not have significantly increased but through social media, there is greater expression and awareness.

Te 60's were a moment that brought a bought about new awareness of many things - issues of gender and racial inequalities, America in an ambiguous war, greater consciousness about environmental issues. Some of the things that were radical,issues then have become accepted mainstream today while other ideas were rejected and some are being revisited.


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## keethytheseeker (Dec 1, 2012)

Maneo, you’ve widened the discussion out to consider the nature of social change in general. It’s frustratingly slow and the perspective of change is a long, historical one. Looking back at the 60s it’s hard to see what has changed permanently. The fear of unwanted pregnancy? My wife runs a clinic as part of the youth services of our city. Young girls still present to her afraid to tell their parents they’ve become pregnant. Ambiguous wars? I’m still not clear what troops of the western powers hope to achieve in Afghanistan. Consciousness about environmental issues? Have the US, Chinese and Indian governments actually signed up to any climate control treaties? Race and gender inequalities? I’d have to ask feminists and ethnic groups about those issues but, not to stray too far from ‘Sex in Marriage’ to avoid being deleted by the website moderators, what ‘fundamental changes’ might be needed to avoid the misery of sexual incompatibility and the risks it poses to family stability?


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

keethytheseeker said:


> Maneo, you’ve widened the discussion out to consider the nature of social change in general. It’s frustratingly slow and the perspective of change is a long, historical one. Looking back at the 60s it’s hard to see what has changed permanently. The fear of unwanted pregnancy? My wife runs a clinic as part of the youth services of our city. Young girls still present to her afraid to tell their parents they’ve become pregnant. Ambiguous wars? I’m still not clear what troops of the western powers hope to achieve in Afghanistan. Consciousness about environmental issues? Have the US, Chinese and Indian governments actually signed up to any climate control treaties? Race and gender inequalities? I’d have to ask feminists and ethnic groups about those issues but, not to stray too far from ‘Sex in Marriage’ to avoid being deleted by the website moderators, what ‘fundamental changes’ might be needed to avoid the misery of sexual incompatibility and the risks it poses to family stability?



I suggest the education department in schools include "sexual compatibility" as part of the sex education curriculum. And as a parent this is a very important topic to discuss with your children.


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

CanadianGuy said:


> I suggest the education department in schools include "sexual compatibility" as part of the sex education curriculum. And as a parent this is a very important topic to discuss with your children.


CG,

That's an interesting idea, but do you think that even armed with the information, teens/20 somethings are capable of making a rational decision? I honestly can't say I could have.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

keethytheseeker said:


> Kingsfan, Yes, that’s a main point. It is a matter of ‘selecting’ the right partner. But the word ‘selecting’ implies a rational approach. But are we capable of being rational when, as I said earlier, our brains are awash with chemicals that stimulate those parts of the brain governing the euphoria of falling in love?


Yes, you are.

For a rough, off the top of my head comparision, I equate love to being drunk. Do I do stupid thinks when I'm drunk? Yes. Do I do thinks I later regret when I'm drunk? Sometimes, yes. Am I completely incapable of even one sane thought for the entire day/night/whatever I'm drunk? No. I can rationalize from time to time and tell myself whether I should slow down, if I am 'to drunk', if I've had enough, if I should keep going, etc. 

I'm sure there were moments before you got married where you had a 'warning flag' moment pop up in your mind about whether you wanted to marry this person or not. You still plowed through those feelings and emotions and did it anyways. I know for my ex-wife I did just that, ignored my gut and my followed what I felt was the right thing to do. That was my choice. That was me ignoring logic. But that was also my choice to ignore that logic. I was more than capable of making a rational decision.



keethytheseeker said:


> Perhaps, you can do the maths that calculate the odds of ‘selecting’ a sexually compatible relationship, but I’d say they weren’t that high.


Maybe they weren't. But nobody but you made you take that chance. Once again, that was your choice. 



keethytheseeker said:


> So, what would a rational society do to ensure the stability of family but cater for sexual desires that remain unsatisfied by the adult family relationship?


It doesn't come down to a rationale society, not in these days. It comes down to rationale people.

It's about finding someone who understands that sexual compatibility is a need of a healthy marriage and to strive for it, even if sex isn't a need for you yourself. To push for a happy bedroom, just because it's important to your partner. To appreciate his/her needs as equal to your own. In that sense, it's no different than it was in your day, or before you were even born. Meet each others needs, the same as you would expect your own to be met.



humanbecoming said:


> CG,
> 
> That's an interesting idea, but do you think that even armed with the information, teens/20 somethings are capable of making a rational decision? I honestly can't say I could have.


Some can, yes. Don't give a blanket statement to an age group. Not all are simply hormone driven.


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

keethytheseeker said:


> I notice there’s lots of advice out there about taking a firm stance, setting limits, laying down the law, becoming the alpha-male (is that what that phrase means?) My advice is, don’t do it, guys. Even now, my wife can reduce me to tears of shame and self-loathing at some of the things I said and did, then. She remembers them all.


I don't get what is so shame and self-loathe worthy about all of the abovementioned?


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

humanbecoming said:


> CG,
> 
> That's an interesting idea, but do you think that even armed with the information, teens/20 somethings are capable of making a rational decision? I honestly can't say I could have.


I can not say what I think teens or 20's are capable of as I'm way past that age and do not recall my mind set. However in being on this forum for quite awhile I can see that sexual compatibility is a major topic of discontent. It's interesting that in high schools credit counseling is part of the life skills curriculum. How clever of the lenders....

It is interesting to me that sex ed discusses STD and genital functions but rarely dives into the type sex drives there are and the challenges it can lead to later in life. I've noticed that my drive is not something that has really changed all that much. Being armed with the information would have helped. This forum could have really helped me 30 years ago when I was a teen.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm with cuddlebug. I may not be in the mood initially but if he's interested I don't say no. I don't consider it duty sex because I love him enough to want to make him happy. Duty sex to me is all in your attitude. If you are doing it out of obligation and going to feel resentment, it's duty sex. If you are doing it with good intentions and want to please your spouse I don't consider it a duty. I usually end up getting in the mood because he is.


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## keethytheseeker (Dec 1, 2012)

Kingsfan, I don’t deny I ignored the logic of the situation. I was in love with my wife and didn’t want to lose her and once I was introduced to her family I gave in to social pressure and felt I should go through with it. As you say, it was my choice. Nobody made me take that chance. ‘It’s about finding someone who understands that sexual compatibility is a need of a healthy marriage.’ You’re right again. I made the choice and found someone who doesn’t understand that. Your reasoning is irrefutable. Thank you to all you other contributors to this thread. The issue could be solved by seeing another’s needs and trying to meet them, not out of duty, but love. I’m sure my wife sees my needs. I express them often enough. But she doesn’t try to meet them, even though she says she loves me. So, bottom line. Time to put up, or shut up. So, shut up is what I’m going to do. As I said at the beginning of this thread, ‘Sorry, folks, there’s no hope.’


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm sorry you are in this boat. I can see how it happens, and it's sad. I was there once, granted I was a lot younger than you and I had enough time left in my life to try and make a change. It's up to you whether or not you feel the same, but I can understand why you may not.

I do wish you well and to be honest, I wish I wasn't right. I wish that there was something that caused spouses to change, simply because for people such as yourself it'd have been great grounds to leave or find a better situation for yourself a long time ago, rather than working to solve a problem that likely had no solution. You were dealt your own Kobayashi Maru scenario, if you will.

As much as I pray for you, I also pray for myself that someday I don't wake up finding myself in your shoes, having walked down life's path blinded by love and guided by someone who'd rather watch a rerun of Three's Company that feel desire to take care of need.

I hope you stick around keethy, it's been nice discussing things with you.


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