# Am I crazy?



## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok my wife has me thinking I'm completely paranoid.

We've been married for 25 years and about a year ago she quit working for me and went to work at a new job.

She's since started losing weight, exercising nightly, tanning, dressing nicer, buying new underwear and has cut me off from sex slowly over about a month. I was NOT invited to the company Xmas party.

She says I'm free to stop by work anytime, it's a closed non-public place you can walk in but it's not public so I have no idea what goes on in there.

She says she want's private time in our bedroom alone, I think she's emailing or calling someone.

She says she love's me but is not in love with me.

She really dosen't have a lot of time to cheat but I have confronted her numerous times she denies it alll the time, says she would never do this. She told me she would never do that to me more than once, sometimes I believe her, mostly I don't.

I just need advice/help and a plan.

Thanks.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Did you go and look at the list that someone asked for about the signs of cheating and just pick a bunch? 

She's cheated on you before?

My advice would be to go into stealth mode and start snooping. VAR, keylogger, her phone, whatever you can get your hands on. Check bank statements and cc statements. But don't let her know you're looking.

My guess is it's only a matter of time before you find out she's cheating 

But do NOT confront her until you have INCONTROVERTIBLE proof.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow, pretty clearly she's cheating. It either a guy at work, or someone known to those at work, he went with her to the company Xmas party for instance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Make sure to have aVAR in her car and the bedroom and key logger on her pc.

Could you hire a PI to see who a work she is going off to long lunches and parking lots with?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Hope1964 said:


> Did you go and look at the list that someone asked for about the signs of cheating and just pick a bunch?


No Kidding!

She has used a lot of the classic lies/excuses...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> She told me she would never do that to me more than once,


So she would do it once or she did it already?


First thing, get a keylogger on her computer. can you do that?


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

Well no matter what she's doing in the bedroom or who she might be doing it with outside of the bedroom, she's not doing it with YOU all of a sudden and that's a problem that needs to be addressed not ignored.

She's cheated on you before, so the odds are high she's doing it again, especially with that lame excuse that she'd only cheat on you once. Why is once ok and twice is not or something?

Also the noninvite to the company party. Have you gone to others, and if so what's her reason to leave you home this time around?

Plan A is to get some answers to these questions. 

Plan B is to fix these issues. 

Otherwise what's the point of being married anymore.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

I think the "more than once" line means that she told him several times that she wasn't cheating at all.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

MSP said:


> I think the "more than once" line means that she told him several times that she wasn't cheating at all.


Ah, I see that.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

A cheater will always find time to cheat, and believe me you will have no idea!!!!!

There is no expectation of privacy in a mge., if she wanted privacy she should have stayed single

It is time for you to become harsh, enuff---to get transparency----or---if she wants to keep to her line that she doesn't love you anymore---then tell her, its time for her to move on.

If you have kids, this all becomes harder, but you do need to deal with her hiding things-------right now she is justifying what she is doing by demonizing you

You need to deal with what is going on, and it needs to be done RIGHT NOW.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Any change can be crazy-making. I can see your concern.
I don't think you're crazy, what is more concerning than her behavior is being together that long and not being able to discuss your feelings with her to get any resolution.  Especially working together for 25 years, it would seem like the lines of communication would be open.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Nobody buys pretty lingerie when sex life is non-existent. If you're not getting some, someone else clearly does.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

snap said:


> Nobody buys pretty lingerie when sex life is non-existent. If you're not getting some, someone else clearly does.


You can have panties tested for semen fairly quickly. 

She's totally following the cheaters script. 

Have you checked her phone bill for high phone/text usage to one number?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She is having online sex a t the very least. Put a VAR or video camera in the bedroom.

Start looking for an attorney, prepare to separate finances. She leaves not you when you find out what she is doing.

Does she have skype onher computer?

What kind of phone does she have?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

sricky990 said:


> You should ask her that why she is behaving like this. You must give her proper time and make her understand that you love her very much. If you will not do so, you will end your relation.



Yes, give her time, exfoliate her feet, warm her douche water for her. Those are the endearing qualities that will cement her love for you.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Nothing he can do other then set boundaries, investigate and let consequence work in her life. Like separating finances, cutting of access to his funds, exposing to friends and family.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

snap said:


> Nobody buys pretty lingerie when sex life is non-existent. If you're not getting some, someone else clearly does.


I do!
What I mean is that while the OP's wife may indeed be up to something, sometimes people just don't like the way they feel and they seek to transform themselves. Maybe the OP's wife feels that she is being dragged down by old habits and wants to achieve some separation so that she can be pursued (by him), and feel attractive (to herself). It is not always about another man, I think this is man-thinking! Assuming that for a woman, it always has to be another person, someone other than herself. Maybe a person reaches a point in life where they become faced with mortality - yes - the old mid-life crisis, and they start wondering, if this comfortable beautiful life ended, what would I really have to call my own? Am I overly dependent, have I become everything I meant to become, that I promised myself to become? Have I left dreams unfulfilled, regarding my social ties, my work life, my ability to know that I can manage on my own? These are good questions for anyone to ask, not just a woman. 

I agree, this change in OP's wife is troubling. But 25 years together what's more troubling is why they cannot discuss it and why he doesn't know if she is cheating or not. You would think after 25 years and working together too, that much contact, a person would have a better feel...and we know nothing about OP or their history, just how the spouse is currently acting.

I don't think it is good to jump to conclusions about anything.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I stand corrected. Nobody except Uno!


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I do!
> What I mean is that while the OP's wife may indeed be up to something, sometimes people just don't like the way they feel and they seek to transform themselves. Maybe the OP's wife feels that she is being dragged down by old habits and wants to achieve some separation so that she can be pursued (by him), and feel attractive (to herself). It is not always about another man, I think this is man-thinking! Assuming that for a woman, it always has to be another person, someone other than herself. Maybe a person reaches a point in life where they become faced with mortality - yes - the old mid-life crisis, and they start wondering, if this comfortable beautiful life ended, what would I really have to call my own? Am I overly dependent, have I become everything I meant to become, that I promised myself to become? Have I left dreams unfulfilled, regarding my social ties, my work life, my ability to know that I can manage on my own? These are good questions for anyone to ask, not just a woman.
> 
> I agree, this change in OP's wife is troubling. But 25 years together what's more troubling is why they cannot discuss it and why he doesn't know if she is cheating or not. You would think after 25 years and working together too, that much contact, a person would have a better feel...and we know nothing about OP or their history, just how the spouse is currently acting.
> ...



She really dosen't have a lot of time to cheat but I have confronted her numerous times she denies it alll the time, says she would never do this.* She told me she would never do that to me more than once,*, sometimes I believe her, mostly I don't.


Above, from the OP first post, But it seems like she did cheat in the past.........so IMHO he has a right to be concerned.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Panda, whether or not she is having PA, there's definitely something dishonest going on. You can choose to ignore it (rugsweep), or deal w/ it. Believe me ignoring will eventually break you. You can follow the advice of the folks here and snoop to find out exactly what's going on, or if you have qualms about snooping, assume the worst and terminate the marriage. Living under these circumstances is not healthy.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

snap said:


> I stand corrected. Nobody except Uno!


Well, we all know I'm just naive and strange.
It's part of what makes me cute.
And not my fault that VS keeps sending me $10 gift cards for some reason...

Hey, when I was in college my boyfriend lived out of town and his friend who used to take me out to concerts and dinners, kept asking me to go to the mall and model lingerie for him, offering to buy me a piece or two. I ALWAYS said no, part of me thought it would be fun, part of me knew it would be wrong, part of me thought I would die of embarassment, and the other part of me said, you can buy your own lingerie and not have to model it for anyone but the mirror. Besides, come on, that red tango dress is way hotter than any lingerie, AND it can be worn in public.

I'm SOOOOOOOO busted.

Edited to add: I also have no problem accepting appropriate gifts of lingerie from AN appropriately-relationshipped individual. But when it comes to stuff that I feel great in, for day time wear or just 'cruising', to remind me of that part of myself, if the price is right, I do buy. (There's an entirely different post on accepting gifts...) Lately I've been having a bit of fun dress shopping when there's an occasion.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

strugglinghusband said:


> She really dosen't have a lot of time to cheat but I have confronted her numerous times she denies it alll the time, says she would never do this.* She told me she would never do that to me more than once,*, sometimes I believe her, mostly I don't.
> 
> 
> Above, from the OP first post, But it seems like she did cheat in the past.........so IMHO he has a right to be concerned.


He should then make it all about him, how HE doesn't feel good in the relationship, and HE needs her to participate to the point where he does, including but not limited to accompanying him to marriage counseling. How she responds to this will determine whether the marriage might be worth saving. At that point, why would it matter if she's cheating or not? If what she's doing is making him feel crappy and she won't help him, it's over! Unless he's into shoe-licking.


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok thanks so much for the responses.

I'll clear a few things up.

No I've never caught her cheating.

I have on a few occassions suspected something but it wasn't that long or that bad and that's spread out over 25 years.

She has always claimed she would leave me first, which we're teetering on the edge of.

I was depressed for a long time, I suspect this caused her to feel the way she does, she says she feels bad she didn't speak up sooner about how she felt.

I haven't been the greatest husband, no denying that, even she sees how different I am now but as it pertains to us it's not seeming to make a dent.

I've basically told her that I want a divorce that unless she's willing to commit to the relationship 100% or at least get on that road asap we're done.

She seems hesitant like she's still not sure, she wass somewhat shocked that I asked for the divorce and I'm giving her time to respond to my request she try 100%.

I gotta say this is a tough one, I can't tell if it's just ilubinilwy or if there's someone else.

Honestly it sucks either way but thanks for the help.


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I do!
> What I mean is that while the OP's wife may indeed be up to something, sometimes people just don't like the way they feel and they seek to transform themselves. Maybe the OP's wife feels that she is being dragged down by old habits and wants to achieve some separation so that she can be pursued (by him), and feel attractive (to herself). It is not always about another man, I think this is man-thinking! Assuming that for a woman, it always has to be another person, someone other than herself. Maybe a person reaches a point in life where they become faced with mortality - yes - the old mid-life crisis, and they start wondering, if this comfortable beautiful life ended, what would I really have to call my own? Am I overly dependent, have I become everything I meant to become, that I promised myself to become? Have I left dreams unfulfilled, regarding my social ties, my work life, my ability to know that I can manage on my own? These are good questions for anyone to ask, not just a woman.
> 
> I agree, this change in OP's wife is troubling. But 25 years together what's more troubling is why they cannot discuss it and why he doesn't know if she is cheating or not. You would think after 25 years and working together too, that much contact, a person would have a better feel...and we know nothing about OP or their history, just how the spouse is currently acting.
> ...


My wife would probably hug you.

It's very possible you are right, she's been exceedingly a pleaser all her life, by that I mean whatever someone else wants that goes ahead of her wants.

Getting this new job has given her more confidence, she's doing very well and I knew she would.

My business was in trouble, I did not want both of us to go down with the ship, so I suggested she get another job.

Never have I been a real fan of working together but we did better at it than I suspected we would.

I personally think she took it hard that she had to leave at first then it caused her to begin to work on herself.

If it weren't for her questioning her feelings for me and the other laundry list of items I mentioned then I would be less inclined to believe it's an affair.

She's gotten some restricted number calls on her phone, she's worked late, she's still hard pressed for time to have an affair.

There's a long list of suspicious things that could be something or nothing but I have checked on her pretty good and I've come up with nothing.

I suck at sleuthing though.


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

river rat said:


> Panda, whether or not she is having PA, there's definitely something dishonest going on. You can choose to ignore it (rugsweep), or deal w/ it. Believe me ignoring will eventually break you. You can follow the advice of the folks here and snoop to find out exactly what's going on, or if you have qualms about snooping, assume the worst and terminate the marriage. Living under these circumstances is not healthy.


I had asked her to take a polygraph, she of course flew off the handle about how wrong it is and while I do agree it's an extreme measure I figured it was basically something I'd accept if someone I loved was this torn up and wondering, that is if I had nothing to hide.

I agree I am leaning towards getting it over with, it's probably done.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She told you she doesn't love you. There aren't a lot of reasons she would want private time in your bedroom, ( I've never heard of that) and she cut you off sexually. Time to talk to a lawyer. Tell her to move to the guest bedroom, do the 180. 

If that doesn't matter to her go ahead and file. Tell the lawyer to subpeona her facebook, phone and text records.

Way to many coincidences and red flags.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Wow, pretty clearly she's cheating. It either a guy at work, or someone known to those at work, he went with her to the company Xmas party for instance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I bet it's her boss.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> I bet it's her boss.


Since she wants to spend alone time in her bedroom it could be an EA that she is planning on taking physical soon.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Since she wants to spend alone time in her bedroom it could be an EA that she is planning on taking physical soon.


Maybe but I've never heard of a company xmas party that the husband wasn't invited to. That tells me the OM was there and since this was a company party nobody seemed to mind that a married woman was with someone other than her husband. Hence why I think it was someone like the owner or higher level manager.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Maybe but I've never heard of a company xmas party that the husband wasn't invited to.


My husbands company does one - they also do one spouses ARE invited to. Every month they do a 'team building' outing - dinner/drinks, golf, bowling, whatever and spouses are not allowed. The one in December they call a 'Christmas party'


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> My husbands company does one - they also do one spouses ARE invited to. Every month they do a 'team building' outing - dinner/drinks, golf, bowling, whatever and spouses are not allowed. The one in December they call a 'Christmas party'


Then Panda should find out if *all* spouses weren't invited or just *her* spouse.

If she is having an affair and it's with a coworker then Panda can sue the company.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Multiple confrontations asking her if she is cheating? Without any evidence whatsoever? Telling her you want a divorce if she doesn't commit 100%?

Idk if she is cheating, but your approach is all wrong here! Absent other information it seems you have jumped the gun big time. There are some red flags but no substantial evidence. Asking her once might be ok under the circumstances, but asking repeatedly could be driving her away.

I think you should STFU as far as anything to do with suspicions. Gather intel for a week or so. Put a VAR in the bedroom so you can catch any phone calls she is making. Put a keylogger on the computer to catch emails and chats, and possibly put a text message logger on her cell phone.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Then Panda should find out if *all* spouses weren't invited or just *her* spouse.
> 
> If she is having an affair and it's with a coworker then Panda can sue the company.


For sure.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Panda, you sound really sweet and you and your wife both sound like you're individually stuck between rocks and hard places. In this kind of equation she is probably hedging on what she can control, which is herself. It's really touching that you are upfront about the business and depression, the two probably go together, and now worrying about your wife on top of that, I would imagine the stress is incredible, and now you are in the unenviable position of needing to turn to your wife for assurances, when it's partly your wife's mysterious behavior that's feeding into it all. She's human, and what human can bear and understand all of their own issues plus those of another, when 24 hours in the day and a good voice don't always take away 'black box' syndrome. Who knows, maybe she's secretly getting therapy in an effort to help you? Maybe she is afraid of you? She needs to be less afraid of herself...seeing herself now as needing to take leadership? Fear is usually at the base of most if not all behaviors. Most people think desire, but I don't think that's true at all. Everybody is afraid, even people like me who swear they are not afraid of nada. (double negative, it's a Spanish thing!) 

IC for yourself might at least be stabilizing, because no matter what is going on, you need a straight head to think about it. A good therapist can help you to create a sort of thought process that you're able to carry along with yourself, an inner voice that works for you, and in your favor, even when life hands you surprises, or is just starting to seriously mess with you.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Panda,

Definitely stop confronting her. You are not getting the truth.

Follow the advice and find out what she is doing and who she is talking too. Tap the pc for sure.

And throw her out of the bedroom. She can have her hourly fun in the guestroom.

Time to step up to the plate. Right now you are shooting blanks.

Be strong ad start following th 180. You really need it.


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok I'm going to do the 180.

So do I move out of the bedroom or have her move out? I don't know that it matters much, she gets ready first so personally I'd rather move out so it's more peaceful to sleep without her comming in and showering and going in and out of the bathroom a dozen times plus taking 10 minutes to use a flashlight to find her jewelry and put it on for the day.

I'll begin seperating the finances and working out that but I don't really want to move out at this point simply becuause of finances.

I'll move my clothes and everything over to the spare bedroom and rearrange it how I want it unless I really should make her move this is probably the easiest way to do it.

Appreciate the help.


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## dingerdad (Nov 23, 2011)

Your wife sounds exactly like mine did. Swore up and down to me and the MC that she would never cheat.....while she was cheating. I was exactly in your shoes untill I found this site and implemented the 180. Take your life back. 

My wife had no time to cheat also but she made time...a lot of it. Work, kids, family and friends all take a backseat to the affair. I got the ILYBMILEY speech. I blamed myself for the marriage problems. I tried to be a perfect husband untill I found out about the affair and for quite awoke after untill dday 2.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Sorry, Panda.
I feel there is a bit of haste here. IMHO, you could have done VAR, keylogger and gathered evidences as suggested earlier by a member in page1.
Will you be better off without the evidences? Will this affect your case, should one arise?
Take care, dear.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Hey Panda--

Dont jump the gun! Find out whats up on the pc FIRST

I confronted when I found hard evidence of online "adult" hookups, then he destroyed the hard drive so I will now never know how long or how far it really went------lots of these places are just hunting grounds for new sexual partners----meaning no time is required to meet, date, or juggle holidays with the family---they meet only for sex, not a relationship.

I doubt you SO is doing this, but the point is----i confronted too early, and now will never know. She is walking all over you right now, use it to your advantage! Once you split up bedrooms, she will know you are serious about getting wise to her activities, and will cover up and lie rather than face the truth.

Good Luck.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

I'd have a problem sleeping in the same bed if I had already decided to split and move on. If you haven't made that decision yet follow the advice of the more experienced writers in the forum. If you've decided to split, I'd ask her to move out or at least move into the spare room. Establish your position as one of strength in your own home. She's the offender here, whatever the exact nature of the offense. Treat her as such.


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok I need HELP!

I need help from veterans on this one, I have a very strong gut feeling she's doing something and it's a full blown affair, I have no real proof but let's just say I know.

Here's the sitch.

She's cunning and I've messed up a ton, I've confronted her a bunch, not lately, lately I've managed to convince her that I now don't believe it's an affair at all, we're still trying to reconcile, I sleep in the same bed, she's gaslighting the hell out of me, and I would LOVE to catch her.

She's spotted a VAR so that's compromised, I have a fear of being able to go that route now, she busted me on that.

I might be able to hide one real good in my car she drives, that's possible, and it might be herding her to different areas of the house to use what I think she's using a prepaid cell phone for contact.

She often goes to the store alone, insists on it and I think that's when she talks to him on the phone she's using cause she's onto me looking at her cell call history.

She MAY have spotted the keylogger, I was reviewing the keylogger history and it left a link to itself on the history, if she reviewed that and clicked on it, it will come up with an error message that contains keylogger in the message, I have no idea if she's spotted it or not but she's not used the computer much lately.

I'm almost positive it's someone at work, she is now taking lunches where before she worked through them, she just started her period so now isn't the best time to hire a PI and have her followed on lunches but my idea was to do that after she's off her period.

She works at a place that really isn't a public place you can't just go in but her lunches are fairly regular now in the past again she didn't take them.

It seems to me that's my best shot.

I need help with ideas on what to do given the current state of things or if I should just cut bait and let her win and divorce her without ever getting proof.

Emotionally I'm willing to hang in there and get the proof I REALLy want that now.

It's my MISSION to bust her but honestly I think it's gone on to the point now that even if I bust her I'll leave and not try and work it out but still I'd like to bust her just so she dosen't get completely away with this.

Given how I don't have proof and given her wild mood swings from euphoric and nice to outright witchy how do I play the homelife during all this?

Currently we have NOT decided to go through with a divorce yet, no seperation, back in the same bed, given I have no proof and her denials at this point that seems to fit my purposes the best to catch her which is the point now.

Thoughts and ideas and plans are greatly appreciated.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You can Gps the car and and maybe the phone. Get some heavy duty velcro and put a VAR under the drivers seat. People feel like they can say anything in their car.

What did she say when she found the Var?

If she freaks, tell her you got an anonnymous phone call saying she was cheating on you, that you did not believe she would do that, and you are sorry for doubting her.

Your sleeping together and the separation is over? Is she having sex with you?

Is she still wanting alone time in the bedroom? You can get tiny cameras disguised as a smoke detector, clock, radio etc.

Did something happen that changed your mind about her cheating?


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> You can Gps the car and and maybe the phone. Get some heavy duty velcro and put a VAR under the drivers seat. People feel like they can say anything in their car.
> 
> What did she say when she found the Var?
> 
> ...


No sex, that was a fun period over the last mohth she went from sex to only oral sex "told me she'd do that for me anytime" to cutting me off completely, again that was fun.

One funny thing was back a month or so ago she slipped up talking to me.

We were talking about affairs and she said and I quote.

"Sure they're exciting for about 5 minutes then no"

She now denies saying this when I questioned her about that slip up later.

She's a piece of work, I can't believe this woman I've married for 25 years would stoop to this but that's exactly what I think she's doing.

It's not that she's cheating it's that she's just freaking wildly lying to me about everything, it's amazing, she knows I am suspicous and still she does this crap, and it's getting worse.

One thing it's doing is that it's getting me out of the mood to stay with her after this is over, it's frankly turning my stomach to watch her do this to me.

Yeah still wants alone time in the bedroom but she's got to know it's not safe in there so I'm assuming she's moved operations.

I so want to bust her it's not funny, she's really smug about all this it's just almost off the charts.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

It seems pretty obvious with that statement that she has been cheating on you. I would now make a demand for the polygraph test as a deal breaker. If she says no then see a lawyer. I would also get tested for STD's. She has played you long enough. If she knows that you will get a divorce if she refuses to take the polygraph then you really have your answers that she has cheated on you if she still refuses.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> It seems pretty obvious with that statement that she has been cheating on you. I would now make a demand for the polygraph test as a deal breaker. If she says no then see a lawyer. I would also get tested for STD's. She has played you long enough. If she knows that you will get a divorce if she refuses to take the polygraph then you really have your answers that she has cheated on you if she still refuses.


I agree. You've botched everything else. Might as well give this a try.

By the way, her defiant attitude and disregard for your feeleings are proof enough she is lying about something.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I agree with the other posters, if you can't get proof via investigating, but your gut is telling you loudly something is going on, then tell her to prove nothing is happening or else you are leaving. This s paying hardball. Demand a polygraph.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I hope you have a keylogger installed. If you reveal the polygraph to her I would wager she will begin to research the websites out there that tell you how to beat a polygraph test. If she starts looking those up you have her dead to rights. If she has access to another computer that you can't monitor then don't tell her about the polygraph test until you are already on the steps of the building so she doesn't have time to prepare.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

As you said, its getting worse, its only a mater of time you get what you need and can move on with or with out her.
Affairs are addicting and she will continue to push the limits and with that mistakes will be made.

Search her car for the secret phone, while your in there plant a VAR with some velcrow tape and hide it well bring a screw driver if need be and stash it good. She is on to you and has already done her research on how to hide the A...The GPS is also a must.

The best and most expensive thing to do is get a PI. Give him as much information as you can as far as times and places.

Start a log of her comings and goings. The trips to the store...alone may have a schedule to them. Keep track of the working late. It may be happening only on a certain day.


What I'm saying is get the most for your buck by giving the PI a ruotine that she may have set up with OM as far "every Wed. she step out" or she "works late every other Tue."


Look at her credit cards for resturants she frequents. and again the VAR is priceless, just buy more of them.

Play it cool and no matter how hard, give her the perception all is good now and you trust her.....wait you better just act like you have ...she may catch on if your to nice.


Good luck and know that you will get what you need and it will help you in the long run but right now it will be painfull. Take the time you need to no matter how painful.

With out this information she will rewrite history and make you to be the bad guy.


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

Already been through the polygraph fiasco, tried that twice, the first time she was willing the 2nd much later on she was very unwilling although she said she'd take one and send it to me after the divorce. The first time I backed down, big mistake but they can be convincing and her willingness to take it threw me. This all occured before I found this site, if I had found this site faster I would of never made all the mistakes I have.

Long story short her reaction more or less confirmed to me she's doing something or has done something.

I doubt she'd even take one now anyhow, so basically I'm just going to hang out for a few weeks more, gather some evidence and if nothing turns up then I'll probably just leave and call it a day.

I've already reached the conclusion the marriage is probably shot beyond hope, I really don't want to let her get away scott free on this one but if it comes to that I'll be ok with it and just move on.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> I've already reached the conclusion the marriage is probably shot beyond hope, I really don't want to let her get away scott free on this one but if it comes to that I'll be ok with it and just move on.


That's the best attitude you could have.

Keep doing the 180.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you asked her questions? Write this list down stay very calm and write down her answers. Don't interrupt or argue points. 

Like........ Are you sure you want to be married?

Why do you want alone time in a bedroom with a computer?

Do you know what that sounds like?

After 25 years and a new job, now you don't love me?

Why did you cut off sex for the last month?

Why did you say affairs were only fun for 5 min? How do you know that?

Why did everything change after you got a new job?

After 25 years, why can't I believe anything you say?

If I were treating you this way what would you do?

Do I need a divorce lawyer?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Another option is the following.

1. Drop a couple of vats in the house. To per room tat she might call from.

2. Leave her a note, "well now I know. If you feel like explaining why you thought that was ok, then call me, but until then caio"

3. Go dark and away for a couple days.

4. Return home and listen to the vars.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Can you get a PI do the job for you?


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Panda, 1) You are firmly convinced that she is cheating. 2) Your relationship is in the ditch. 3) In most states, adultery has no bearing on the divorce proceedings. 4) She is completely without remorse and shows no inclination to fix the marriage. What more do you need?


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

babypanda said:


> I doubt she'd even take one now anyhow, so basically I'm just going to hang out for a few weeks more, gather some evidence and if nothing turns up then I'll probably just leave and call it a day.
> 
> I've already reached the conclusion the marriage is probably shot beyond hope, I really don't want to let her get away scott free on this one but if it comes to that I'll be ok with it and just move on.


Interesting, you don't want her to "get away scott free".

I'm going to suggest you refocus your thinking.

It's not about her getting away with anything, she's chosen another man over you and she is apparently continuing to see him and "get away with it", there's nothing you can do to stop her, and your only realistic option at this point is to walk away from the marriage.

Unfortunately you both lose to some extent (you're both going to have to rebuild your lives, and all that stuff about broken dreams, and more difficult financial struggles apply), although it will be more painful for you at least in the short term, because you don't have someone waiting in the wings and you don't want the marriage to end.

You talk about evidence gathering and all that but it's clear from your posts on this thread that she's not looking to appease you and she's willing to divorce you rather than meet your reasonable requests.. so it's over. Don't waste more time and money and effort on getting a PI, you need to accept that the marriage is over, and go into defense mode and start preparing for divorce and protecting your assets.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

river rat said:


> Panda, 1) You are firmly convinced that she is cheating. 2) Your relationship is in the ditch. 3) In most states, adultery has no bearing on the divorce proceedings. 4) She is completely without remorse and shows no inclination to fix the marriage. What more do you need?


I don't sse the part where he is firmly convinced. Something is going on and he needs to know what.


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> I don't sse the part where he is firmly convinced. Something is going on and he needs to know what.


That's mostly it.

I have strong ideas and gut feelings but I don't know for sure no.

She's a strange type of person who has a small chance of exhibiting all the signs without actually doing it.

Mind you I trust my gut but I'd really like the proof to flush 25 years down the toilet with a minimum of 2nd thoughts.

I'm probably going to end up flushing it proof or no because at some point that's what will have to happen but a few weeks spent in search of the real truth is probably called for here.

After that it starts to become more trouble than it's worth.

She's behaving very strange lately, yesterday she was talking about putting her ring on and going back to the way it was, the 180 is probably having an effect, tonight she's I think figured out that I'm doing something like the 180 and is going to fight back on that front, it's fine I'm prepared for that.

I can tell she's not really thought out the divorce thing, as we started making plans on that front it's dawning on her what's she's about to do.

Trouble is she's taken this so far she's kicking in my self preservation and reflection mode and honestly if she dosen't do a 180 herself we're history.

I realize all that about her actions and what it most likely means and that in the end proof or not the decision will probably be the same.

I've recently caught some patience, a week or two of mellowness won't kill me, just going to hang out and see what's what.

I'm not at all sure I want to know in the end, then go through what I see described here on this site in terms of dealing with it and getting over it, wow, that's just beyond me at this point.

I can't imagine hanging in there through all that and also I don't know my marriage was ever good enough to warrant that kind of sacrifice, but I also know because I cheated once years and years ago and got caught how it goes down, I know how it feels to have an affair, I know what I was thinking and so part of me dosen't blame her that much.

It's a very wrong thing to do but people screw up, they do dumb things, I know she still loves me as crazy as that sounds it's true and I have done my fair share to make this marriage get to this point.

It dosen't justify what she's doing no, not in a million years but I do understand some.

It was my fault on my affair, I screwed up, my bad, took the long term punishment I deserved with little to no crying about it, just took it and it may have drastically altered our marriage for the worse.

It actually probably saved it in some ways, it caused us to have to talk more than we ever did before but I don't think she ever really forgave me or forgot and that's probably a big part of what she's using to rationalize this if that's what she's doing. I can hear all her rationalizations and how she's pinning most of the bad stuff on me, classic type of cheating mentality.

So I have a feeling here that I should be patient and wait, so that's what I'll do, but only so long.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Keep doing what you're doing and see what happens. A couple of weeks can't hurt. At some point you might just tell her she's having an affair and you are divorcing her. If she denies it, tell her number one she has all the signs(you found them on the internet) and if she isn't she might as well be because she has all the signs of having an affair and you don't have to put up with that since there are a plenty of women out there looking for a good faithful man.


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Keep doing what you're doing and see what happens. A couple of weeks can't hurt. At some point you might just tell her she's having an affair and you are divorcing her. If she denies it, tell her number one she has all the signs(you found them on the internet) and if she isn't she might as well be because she has all the signs of having an affair and you don't have to put up with that since there are a plenty of women out there looking for a good faithful man.


Well she'd say I'm not a faithful man since I cheated on her, she has a point on that one.

I realize this site is probably the least forgiving place on earth for that but it is what it is.

Only did it once but once is a lot in a marriage really, it can cause tremendous damage.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

What kind of affair did you have? Long term or one night stand?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Now, you are....
I think you both need MC.
Guys, could this be revenge cheating or getting scores even?
OP is on a weaker position with his known affair?


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> What kind of affair did you have? Long term or one night stand?


A few months.


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## babypanda (Feb 16, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> Now, you are....
> I think you both need MC.
> Guys, could this be revenge cheating or getting scores even?
> OP is on a weaker position with his known affair?


LOL, probably so.

In my experience MC isn't helpful unless you get lucky and get a great one to help you.


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