# This is crazy



## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

My husband asked for a divorce after 20 years of marriage. I am 63 and he wanted to be free to see younger women and run wild. OK, I get that and I am over him. The issues involve the property settlement, including commingling funds, and the people hired to help with the divorce. We live in a community property state. 

Because my husband insisted we not use a lawyer, I hired a neutral party - a certified divorce financial planner. But I also hired a lawyer so I could ask legal questions. This mess has been going on for 4 months. My husband has not turned in all the paperwork and the CFDP is in no way trying to get the paperwork from him. The excuses and delays are endless. No credit report, no 401k statements, no proof of where funds came from. The spreadsheet the CFDP showed me detailing what part of my IRA is CP is full of mistakes...simple and glaring errors. I am living on SS ($1500 a month) and my husband makes over $200,000 a year and at the initial settlement meeting she announced that I did not need any spousal support although I am $39,000 in the hole after bills each year and he is $90,000 to the plus side. There is much more. I really don't know why I have stayed with her this long but my lawyer said to hang on until we got all the documents. I also found an online review of the CFDP and it was scathing. The next meeting is set for a month from now, but I think I need to dump her before that.

At the initial meeting the question of commingling funds was a big issue. My husband had a brokerage account when we married so that was sole and separate at that point. Two years later, he deposited CP money (18% of total in the account). Two years after that he deposited a huge amount into that same account! He claims that it is all from a trust fund, but shows no proof of that. The CFDP agrees with him and wanted me to agree that the entire account was his sole and separate. I did not agree. A few years ago he deposited the proceeds of the sale of a house which would be CP money into that same account. The account balance at that time was almost nothing. Then he used that account as partial payment for another house. The CFDP says that this portion is sole and separate. 

My lawyer says that these are all prelim and that I don't have to agree with any of it, but she is in contact with the CFDP and they are having a private lunch in a couple weeks. The lawyer has told the CFDP about results of research I had done without asking me. She talks to the CFDP in another room on the phone. I feel like this is wrong.

Anyways, I am now doubting everyone, including myself. Is that brokerage fund commingled? Do I now get nothing in support? Initially the lawyer told me I would get $4-5000 a month for 5 years until my husband retired based on my age, his income, my income and length of marriage. Everything seems to be rapidly changing and the CFDP seems to be on his side and cooking up ways to protect all his property from me. It has been reduced by 80% during the prelim settlement meeting. Who can I trust? My husband is checked out, living with someone in San Francisco and happy to keep whatever he can.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Fire them both! Then hire an attorney that will get you what you deserve!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Following your husband's advice was your first mistake. 

You need a real lawyer and a real divorce.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It does not matter if your husband does not want to use attorneys. You need to do what is good for you.

Fire the people you are working with right now. they are incompetent. And hire a shark of a lawyer.

A good lawyer will subpoena the records directly from the source if your husband will not provide them.

Since your husband has all the money, you can have a lawyer ask the court to have your legal fees paid out of computing funds. Your husband will need to write a check to your lawyer out of the money he his keeping from you.

I always suggest that a person not file for divorce until you have copies of all legal and financial paperwork. I know it's too late for you to go back and get this yourself. But I'm saying it here for the many people who will be reading this thread.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Look up VeryHurt's thread. Yours looks like a cakewalk compared to hers. But you might learn some valuable insight into how to fight his bs.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> It does not matter if your husband does not want to use attorneys. You need to do what is good for you.
> 
> Fire the people you are working with right now. they are incompetent. And hire a shark of a lawyer.
> 
> ...


^^THIS^^ OP Please take this advice, the only way you will get what you are entitled to is by firing the idiots you currently have working on this.


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## Grapes (Oct 21, 2016)

Probably over simplified but something along these lines.. The only guarantee is #5

1) fire everyone 
2) get a new shark lawyer, spare no expense with the gap between wages and length of marriage. Husband will have to contribute.
3) Tell husband crew his "no lawyers" request
4) sick the dogs on him
5) sit back and sip a mojito and enjoy your life!


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

Thank you all. 

Today the lawyer told me that if only his name is on the deed to the house then it is his sole and separate even though the down payment and mortgage payments were paid for with CP. One more lost asset. 

He covered all his bases. I am going to talk to someone else on Monday. This stress is awful. All I can think is that he leaves after 20 years with everything (millions) and I'm going to scrape by. Community property is not good if one party figures out how to keep everything sole and separate.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do you mind sharing which state you live in. 

In most (all) community property states, the house belongs to both of you regardless of whose name is on the deed since community property funds were used to pay for th house, repairs, etc. Like I said, you need a new lawyer.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

I am in Arizona and my lawyer works for one of the top family law firms! I thought what you stated was correct, but my lawyer is saying that it is like I gave him the house as a gift! I feel like I have fallen down the rabbit hole.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

holdmyground said:


> I am in Arizona and my lawyer works for one of the top family law firms! I thought what you stated was correct, but my lawyer is saying that it is like I gave him the house as a gift! I feel like I have fallen down the rabbit hole.


I need to get ready to go out for dinner right now. But I will look this up for you after dinner or early tomorrow. I really doubt that your lawyer it right. I done forensic accounting for divorces in some community property states to prove that property/assets are not sole property. I rather doubt that Arizona is any different than other community property states.

You definitely need to talk to some other attorneys.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

It has been 4 months and he has not gotten his 401k statements in, or his credit report. Is this acceptable? No one seems to care.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You are paying a lawyer to take care of these things for you. Tell your lawyer to either get it done or they are fired.

And unless the entire home is paid for by an inheritance, it is community property.

My guess is your lawyer may be PART of a huge law firm, but they most likely gave you the VERY least qualified lawyer they have on board, i.e. just passed the boards.

Find someone else who is hungry for the business and will fight for you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok.. looks like dinner plans just got moved to tomorrow.... so here's some stuff to read

Who Owns What in Marital Property? - FindLaw


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

"Arizona, like most other states on the west coast, is considered a community property state. These states share many similar principles when it comes to dividing assets and obligations accrued during a marriage. Generally, anything that a married couple accumulates during the marriage is considered community property, that is, both spouses own an undivided share of the whole. Exceptions to this general principle include those assets acquired prior to the marriage, by gift, devise (by a will) or descent (inheritance). *Because the Arizona courts start with a strong presumption that anything acquired during marriage is a community item, the spouse claiming a particular item is not community property has the burden of proving otherwise.*"

The above is a quote from the site for a legal firm in AZ. You said that your husband has provided no information about anything financial. So he has not proven that the house is his sole property. AZ courts make the assumption that all property is community property. 


What Every Divorcing Spouse Should Know About Community Property in Arizona ? The Law Office of Carrie M. Wilcox

You need to find a lawyer who will fight for you. That lawyer has to be willing to fight to get you half of all assets to include the home; to give all debt to your husband since you have no way of paying for it (I've seen this happen); who will subpoena your financial records that your husband is holding hostage; who will get you interim spousal support; who will ask the court to have your legal fees paid out of community assets/fund; and for you to get half of his retirement accounts.

Find a lawyer who will fight for you. Your current lawyer clearly will not do that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

By the way. When you go see another attorney, you probably should not tell them what your current attorney is saying. Just any attorney that you interview how they would handle those topics and what they believe the law/courts stand on the topics.

If they ask why you want to leave your current attorney, just say that the attorney was only one you asked for some advise that attorney was not handling your entire divorce.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

holdmyground said:


> It has been 4 months and he has not gotten his 401k statements in, or his credit report. Is this acceptable? No one seems to care.


Of course it's not acceptable. Did your attorney send him a letter asking for the documents and he ignored it? 

If you cannot get it from your, your attorney (the new one who will fight for you) can subpoena the documents directly from the instituion.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Are you getting any interim spousal support?


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

I just read that on FindLaw this afternoon. It did not directly address the name needing to be on the deed for the house and I am learning that I have to find out EXACTLY. Commingling taught me the lesson. I had thought that if any commingling took place the whole account was considered CP. Not so. 

Thank you so much for your help.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

Not a cent. I am living off savings and SS. I think because I had some savings no one thought it was necessary. I am watching the savings I worked so hard to accumulate go up in smoke on bills and legal fees. 

I am the only one doing any forensic work. The woman I hired is a CDFP (Certified Divorce Financial Planner) and she can't even do a simple excel calculation. I am digging through statements and making connections and telling her what's what.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Of course it's not acceptable. Did your attorney send him a letter asking for the documents and he ignored it?
> 
> If you cannot get it from your, your attorney (the new one who will fight for you) can subpoena the documents directly from the instituion.


No, he doesn;t know I have an attorney because he'd be furious. I feel like I did everything wrong by trying to do the right things. I should have openly used an attorney from the start. Then I kept hoping things would get better. Then the CDFP gave me a prelim look at her proposed settlement and it looked really good. A fair split. Then in the prelim meeting she took it all away. My soon to be ex was delighted. She told him what a sweet spot he was in. Why would she do this?? 

He has been asked many times by me and by the CDFP when I push her to bug him. There are so many excuses....the bank can't find the statements, the bank sent the statements to the wrong address, the bank was closed, the bank told him he had to call a different department, the statements do not go back that far, he's been sick, he was busy at work, he doesn't understand what he needs to do, etc, etc....


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Were the people you have recommended by your H by any chance. Get rid of them and get a cut throat lawyer asap!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Clearly you need to get interim spousal support. 

Did you sign a quit claim deed or a disclaimer deed on the house at any time?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Along with the good advice from @EleGirl, here's mine: stop being afraid of your husband. This is your life and you're within your right to have your fair share. He has no qualms about looking out for his own self interests. I suggest that you try to adopt the same attitude. No amount of good advice here is going to change your situation on its own. Only your actions will. I say this not to sting but because I once avoided things when I was worried about upsetting my ex H. I was always walking on eggshells. I was young and afraid and had no one to advise me. I know better now than to let fear hold me in cement. Right now you need to be your own best friend.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

Satya said:


> Along with the good advice from @EleGirl, here's mine: stop being afraid of your husband. This is your life and you're within your right to have your fair share. He has no qualms about looking out for his own self interests. I suggest that you try to adopt the same attitude. No amount of good advice here is going to change your situation on its own. Only your actions will. I say this not to sting but because I once avoided things when I was worried about upsetting my ex H. I was always walking on eggshells. I was young and afraid and had no one to advise me. I know better now than to let fear hold me in cement. Right now you need to be your own best friend.


I totally get this and you are right and I think about this.....BUT I think that the bottom line is that he has set things up so that he is almost totally protected. I have no fair share. Almost every community property asset turns out to be his. I am just now learning the full extent. So, in a community property state, if the husband can prove sole and separate, he gets it. As it stands now he will walk away with several million and I'll get maybe a hundred thousand. I do have my before marriage house and a decent IRA but that may impact spousal support.

This is what is freaking me out. I see now how he has planned this from the start. He stopped contributing to his IRA, he put only his name on house deeds (3 houses), he is claiming his trust fund went into his brokerage account and although some community money was also deposited, the vast portion is alleged to be sole and separate. And that impacts other assets, making them sole and separate. 

If the husband has done this, will the courts follow the letter of the law and leave him with almost everything? 

There is still his 401k, which he has not given statements for. And he has given no proof that the trust fund was what went into the brokerage account. But that money was deposited 2 years after we got married so I do not see how it will end up community. 

What we are talking about is a large estate that has been carefully planned so the husband keeps it all. And I am 63, haven't worked in 18 years (at his request) and living on SS. So, maybe my lawyer isn't fighting for me to get more because there isn't more for me to get. What can a new lawyer do? 

And I've been walking on eggshells.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Has an actual divorce petition been filed with the court yet?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Stop paying for that lady immediately. Not one cent more. Instead, look up reviews for a forensic accountant and pay HIM instead. Hire him to research ALL your husband's money and provide proof to you of how it got set up, WHEN it got set up, where it is, and how to access it. THAT is what you will turn in to your lawyer and the judge. Proof that he purposely siphoned money away from you. Judges don't like that. This will be money well spent, I can almost guarantee you, if you're talking about a difference between $100,000 and millions. If he has earned those millions while married to you, are ARE entitled to t, even if he's used legal means to deny you access.

Did you read VeryHurt's thread yet? You really need to.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

honcho said:


> Has an actual divorce petition been filed with the court yet?


No. Not yet.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

turnera said:


> Stop paying for that lady immediately. Not one cent more. Instead, look up reviews for a forensic accountant and pay HIM instead. Hire him to research ALL your husband's money and provide proof to you of how it got set up, WHEN it got set up, where it is, and how to access it. THAT is what you will turn in to your lawyer and the judge. Proof that he purposely siphoned money away from you. Judges don't like that. This will be money well spent, I can almost guarantee you, if you're talking about a difference between $100,000 and millions. If he has earned those millions while married to you, are ARE entitled to t, even if he's used legal means to deny you access.
> 
> Did you read VeryHurt's thread yet? You really need to.


I have been trying to find that thread. The searches I did did not find it. I just found a couple comments she made. Help! 

From what I am told by my lawyer, the STBXH has to prove that the money is sole and separate and I don't need to spend or do all that work. So, if he does not produce the clear evidence and money trail, it is CP. So if this is true, I don't want to do his work that may hurt me. My current lawyer says that the money trail is so old that she thinks it will be impossible to follow back that far, but I'm not depending on that. Behind the scenes I am doing some work and have discovered some things and I very stupidly told my lawyer and she told the CDFP. 

Thank you all for your help! My stress leven is down some today and much of that is due to finding this site and you guys. 

Also, I realized today that I need a lawyer that is very knowledgable re: commingled funds.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

See if this link works.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/privat...970-final-stage-my-divorce-getting-tough.html


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

turnera said:


> See if this link works.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/privat...970-final-stage-my-divorce-getting-tough.html


Good try, but:
holdmyground, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting email activation.

Maybe it's because it is a private members section?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

holdmyground said:


> I have been trying to find that thread. The searches I did did not find it. I just found a couple comments she made. Help!
> 
> From what I am told by my lawyer, the STBXH has to prove that the money is sole and separate and I don't need to spend or do all that work. So, if he does not produce the clear evidence and money trail, it is CP. So if this is true, I don't want to do his work that may hurt me. My current lawyer says that the money trail is so old that she thinks it will be impossible to follow back that far, but I'm not depending on that. Behind the scenes I am doing some work and have discovered some things and I very stupidly told my lawyer and she told the CDFP.
> 
> ...


Find a new lawyer and you should file for divorce and get temp spousal support. Once in the system he will have to come up with the paperwork or face contempt charges. Right now he has no legal incentive to give up any paperwork and the longer this goes on the longer he has to hide cash etc. 

He would rather keep being married and doing what he is doing as he knows divorce is going to cost him. Veryhurt endured a great deal of heartache and games with supposed trusts that didn't exist etc etc.

In my own divorce we dealt with an inheritance and premarital monies she claimed exempt and we had to trace a great deal of material back 15 years. She lost because of the co-mingling but it was a battle the entire way and still not complete. Your probably going to need a "blood and guts" lawyer, not a negotiator from the sounds of your stbx.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

holdmyground said:


> Good try, but:
> holdmyground, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
> Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
> If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting email activation.
> ...


You'll need 30 posts before you can access the private section or become a forum supporter.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

holdmyground said:


> I totally get this and you are right and I think about this.....BUT I think that the bottom line is that he has set things up so that he is almost totally protected. I have no fair share. Almost every community property asset turns out to be his. I am just now learning the full extent. So, in a community property state, if the husband can prove sole and separate, he gets it. As it stands now he will walk away with several million and I'll get maybe a hundred thousand. I do have my before marriage house and a decent IRA but that may impact spousal support.
> 
> This is what is freaking me out. I see now how he has planned this from the start. He stopped contributing to his IRA, he put only his name on house deeds (3 houses), he is claiming his trust fund went into his brokerage account and although some community money was also deposited, the vast portion is alleged to be sole and separate. And that impacts other assets, making them sole and separate.
> 
> ...


So take a deep breath. Right not you are only in the first quarter. Now he has jumped to the lead but it is not insurmountable by any stretch. First things first get a bull dog of an attorney. The thing you have learned is you can no longer trust your husband. You are not fighting for yourself. I don't think you husband is a smart as he thinks he is though. He thinks he is just going to walk all over you. Don't let him, stop being afraid and start getting mad.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

holdmyground said:


> Good try, but:
> holdmyground, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
> Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
> If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting email activation.
> ...


It's in the private member's section. You need 30 posts before you can read anything in that section.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

holdmyground said:


> I totally get this and you are right and I think about this.....BUT I think that the bottom line is that he has set things up so that he is almost totally protected. I have no fair share. Almost every community property asset turns out to be his. I am just now learning the full extent. So, in a community property state, if the husband can prove sole and separate, he gets it. As it stands now he will walk away with several million and I'll get maybe a hundred thousand. I do have my before marriage house and a decent IRA but that may impact spousal support.
> 
> This is what is freaking me out. I see now how he has planned this from the start. He stopped contributing to his IRA, he put only his name on house deeds (3 houses), he is claiming his trust fund went into his brokerage account and although some community money was also deposited, the vast portion is alleged to be sole and separate. And that impacts other assets, making them sole and separate.
> 
> ...


If your husband has not provided any financial papers, then how could he have proven that all the assets are his? A long history of financial records submitted to the court is required to prove this.

What can a new attorney do? They can get the paperwork and work their tail end off to prove that the assets are 50% yours. I have you a list of things to ask a new attorney to do.

You have an attorney telling you that everything belongs to him when he has submitted nothing to the courts/attorney. So the attorney you have is doing nothing for you.

Get an attorney that will fight for you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

holdmyground said:


> I have been trying to find that thread. The searches I did did not find it. I just found a couple comments she made. Help!
> 
> From what I am told by my lawyer, the STBXH has to prove that the money is sole and separate and I don't need to spend or do all that work. So, if he does not produce the clear evidence and money trail, it is CP. So if this is true, I don't want to do his work that may hurt me. My current lawyer says that the money trail is so old that she thinks it will be impossible to follow back that far, but I'm not depending on that. Behind the scenes I am doing some work and have discovered some things and I very stupidly told my lawyer and she told the CDFP.
> 
> ...


Did you provide paperwork to prove what you told the lawyer? Or did you just tell her verbally?

Yep, you need a new attorney.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Has the divorce been filed yet?

Do not tell your husband that you are getting a new attorney. Let the new attorney take care of notifying him that you have a new attorney.

If you tell him before your new attorney is hired and gets the case setup, it only gives him more time to play games and hide things.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I think by now you understand you need a new lawyer correct?

Are you still in the marital home? If you are do this, start searching for old bank records, find old tax filings, any financial papers you can. I doubt your husband has been planning this from the beginning, more likely the last few years. If you can find historic financials where he was co-mingeling funds I think you will have a better case. The trust fund account he had pre marriage is his, but only the amount that was in it, if you can show that account was drawn down and then new deposits were made that new money I believe is a marital asset.

Don't hesitate for a second firing the idiots who are currently representing you. Also I would withhold payment as long as possible, since there is such a difference in incomes a good attorney should be able to get at least part of your legal fees paid by your ex. 

Keep in mind you are a little fish, hiring the largest law firm in town means nothing, they're not going to focus resources on your case, there's just not enough money in it. Hire a divorce specialist, read reviews, ask friends who they used, find that shark and let him/her feed on your husband.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Did you provide paperwork to prove what you told the lawyer? Or did you just tell her verbally?
> 
> Yep, you need a new attorney.


I provided the paperwork. How do I find the right attorney? That is my challenge now. They have to be a fighter and also very familiar with commingling. This week I will start interviewing. I will have to ask them all the specific questions about my situation.

On Monday I meet with a different CDFP who I asked to figure the amount of CP in MY IRA. The result was very different that the horrible CDFP I am using now and am firing. The errors were in my husbands favor, of course. The new CDFP seemed to know a lot about the local attorneys so I am going to ask her for help finding one. 

To clarify: Right now I have a lawyer and my STBXH and I are using a 'neutral' CDFP that I found who is destroying me and who cannot do a simple spreadsheet. My STBXH supposedly does not know I am using the lawyer. She is on retainer but is being used by me for questions and has not filed paperwork. 

The CDFP started out saying things like "You're going to be fine, I have your back." The pre-settlement paperwork she gave me looked great. But as soon as my STBXH announced in the meeting that a huge chunk of money went into his brokerage fund that was trust fund money, all that changed and she told him that because he paid for things from that brokerage fund and even though there was CP money in that fund, everything he paid for out of that find was his sole and separate. She asked for no proof, but she and my husband agreed that it was trust fund money because what else could it be? We had only been married 2 years, he did have a trust fund, he did not make enough to have that kind of money back them. And then she was insisting that I agree (then and there) that the brokerage fund was entirely his sole and separate property. I refused. No mu STBXH is convinced that everything is his...I have no bargaining power at all thanks to this CDFP. 

Now my attorney is planning to have lunch with her (the two have had quite a bit of contact during this process.) The purpose is for my attorney to feel out the CFDP and see if I can still get a fair shot at getting a fair settlement. But that makes no sense as the damage had been done and the attorney has tried to explain things before with no good results. The attorney is trying to say that evidence must be presented by my husband. However, now the attorney is backtracking on things like house ownership. The business about my name must be on the deed or it is his sole and separate is one example. 

It's such a mess. And CP sure seems to work in favor of the person who set up the assets in their favor. 

Thank you so much!!


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

honcho said:


> Find a new lawyer and you should file for divorce and get temp spousal support. Once in the system he will have to come up with the paperwork or face contempt charges. Right now he has no legal incentive to give up any paperwork and the longer this goes on the longer he has to hide cash etc.
> 
> He would rather keep being married and doing what he is doing as he knows divorce is going to cost him. Veryhurt endured a great deal of heartache and games with supposed trusts that didn't exist etc etc.
> 
> In my own divorce we dealt with an inheritance and premarital monies she claimed exempt and we had to trace a great deal of material back 15 years. She lost because of the co-mingling but it was a battle the entire way and still not complete. Your probably going to need a "blood and guts" lawyer, not a negotiator from the sounds of your stbx.


You are correct, he has no incentive to do anything. I keep saying this and the CDFP says he wants this over and that is his incentive. Nonsense! He's doing whatever he wants and keeps all his money. I have no access to anything. He could go on like this for years. Actually, my stbx has not had to do a thing. He's out having fun. The CDFP is making sure he keeps everything. And until I talk to a new attorney, that may be the case. 

Question: how much commingling was there? In my case, the account was started before marriage, a deposit of what everyone agrees is CP money was made 2 years after marriage that made up about 20% of the overall account balance. Is that enough to be commingling? It seems like an account can be completely commingled but as long as there is a paper trail then money in the account can be separated out and can be considered sole and separate. The bad news is that there was not much activity in the account. A few deposits and a few withdrawals. Three years after marriage there was the huge deposit that he says is trust fund, but it may be part trust fund and part other money. Who knows? It could be all trust fund, but if it goes into an account that already has some CP money in it, how does that work? And he has provided no evidence. And I have already found some money that he had hidden with his brother.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

Cooper said:


> I think by now you understand you need a new lawyer correct?
> 
> Are you still in the marital home? If you are do this, start searching for old bank records, find old tax filings, any financial papers you can. I doubt your husband has been planning this from the beginning, more likely the last few years. If you can find historic financials where he was co-mingeling funds I think you will have a better case. The trust fund account he had pre marriage is his, but only the amount that was in it, if you can show that account was drawn down and then new deposits were made that new money I believe is a marital asset.
> 
> ...


I am in the home I bought before marriage. I have gotten my hands on every bit of paper I can. A lot of it seems to come down to one account. This account was started before marriage, them CP money was deposited 2 years after marriage (about 20% of the account) and then 3 years after marriage there was a huge deposit that he claims if trust fund money. However, there is no proof and he said previously that the trust fund was gone, spread over ACCOUNTS and who knows where and it was no longer an issue. Also, I found evidence that there was trust fund money in a trust account FIVE years after marriage. It is killing me that I can't remember how much he got. I remember he told me his first wife spent much of it, but he denies that now. I have to say I do not know how that large sum could be all or much CP...it was too soon after marriage for that kind of accumulation. Anyways, a house was paid for from that brokerage account and several other things (car, part of another house) so this is a big impact.


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## holdmyground (Feb 3, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> It's in the private member's section. You need 30 posts before you can read anything in that section.


LOL, I'll be there before long!!


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

holdmyground said:


> You are correct, he has no incentive to do anything. I keep saying this and the CDFP says he wants this over and that is his incentive. Nonsense! He's doing whatever he wants and keeps all his money. I have no access to anything. He could go on like this for years. Actually, my stbx has not had to do a thing. He's out having fun. The CDFP is making sure he keeps everything. And until I talk to a new attorney, that may be the case.
> 
> Question: how much commingling was there? In my case, the account was started before marriage, a deposit of what everyone agrees is CP money was made 2 years after marriage that made up about 20% of the overall account balance. Is that enough to be commingling? It seems like an account can be completely commingled but as long as there is a paper trail then money in the account can be separated out and can be considered sole and separate. The bad news is that there was not much activity in the account. A few deposits and a few withdrawals. Three years after marriage there was the huge deposit that he says is trust fund, but it may be part trust fund and part other money. Who knows? It could be all trust fund, but if it goes into an account that already has some CP money in it, how does that work? And he has provided no evidence. And I have already found some money that he had hidden with his brother.


In essence even a dollar of community monies put into an exempt account creates a now co-mingled account potentially losing it exemption. How co-mingling is handled is very dependent on your state and the judge. In general terms judges hate complicated accounting work in divorce, they understand law not balance sheets.

In my divorce as example my ex inherited stocks. Every year they received dividends/capital gains that we reinvested and reported and paid taxes on. Because community funds were used to pay taxes the exempt account became co-mingled so the judge ruled that half the stocks were community property because it was too much of a "hassle" as he put it to trace it all the detail over the years. Had to dividends/gains been paid out instead of reinvested and those funds used to pay the taxes the exempt account would have stayed exempt. 

My ex owned a duplex prior to marriage. We kept it 2 years renting it out and because we reported rental income on taxes, rent payments and expenses were deposited/paid out of joint checking account. When sold we hard large capital gain reported on taxes and paid out of joint account. Judge ruled it all marital property because from the beginning there was no intent to keep the asset separate and trying to trace it all back almost 20 years was too much work, again the judges words. 

My state is getting more aggressive/liberal in its interpretation of community property but each and every state is different and judges appear to have a wide interpretation on the law. This is why you need a good qualified lawyer who can defend your rights and who understands how judges in your area are interpreting the rules.


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