# Guys misunderstanding of what women want



## southbound

This was mentioned in another thread, and I didn't want to hijack, but would like to see how some feel about it. 

Some mentioned how that guys often believe if they just be kind, loving, and good husbands, it will cause their wives to be attracted to them, which seems like it would lead to a great relationship in the bedroom; however, this seems not to be true with a lot of women. 

It seems this is so off from how it should be, and it takes decades for some guys to realize it. 

We also admit we have no idea why this is. I grew up believing the way I described. I thought most women were just looking for a decent, loving man. I guess my parents and grandparents generation put that in my head. It's taken me many decades to comprehend that it isn't always true.


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## Red Sonja

I suppose it depends on your personal idea of what "kind, loving and decent" looks like. I think those three words and how they translate into behavior mean very different things to different people.


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## SunCMars

southbound;18457058
Some mentioned how that guys often believe if they just be kind said:


> THAT GUY-
> 
> You are the guy at the car wash, running the hot water and soap controls.
> You are the guy at the drive in window, giving her a shake and a burger.
> You are the guy at the toll booth. Touching her hand, just a bit and so fleeting.
> You are the guy giving her medications at the window pharmacy.
> 
> If you are not the guy lifting the hood, checking her lube oil, changing her fanny belt, greasing her joints......
> If you are not that guy...you are not her favorite mechanic.
> 
> Acts of service can be a one-way bumpy road. Damn that chuck-hole. That thing caused you to lose your hubbycap.
> 
> In frustration you lose your husband map?
> Map to Eden.
> 
> Acts of service may not open her trunk.
> Find out what will.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

In my experience, this evolves over time.

Many young women/girls seem to be drawn to the bad boy and willing to put up with less than kind, loving treatment. But as they mature, they move closer to that ideal.

Every remarried woman I know who's husbands I have known as well, left a jackass and ended up with a much more kind, loving, man.

(there may be a gender reversed equivalent as men go for the hot chick or trophy wife and then realize what their mistake as well)

When you were raised to believe that it was important to be a kind, loving man, it was those more mature women telling you this. They just don't tell you how long it will be before it'll actually work. 

It's also important to note that kind and loving doesn't mean weak or passive. It is possible to be strong, decisive, and powerful and still exude kindness and loving support. Many men have great difficulty finding that balance.


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## arbitrator

*I'm from that older genre who basically intoned that finding a "good man" or a "good woman" was the ideal thing to look for. And from that perspective, I don't really know if that analogy is little more than an apt description right out of Fantasyland!

Having said that, I think that we are all inclined to look for the person who is physically attractive, extremely well rounded, respected by their friends and peers, is not sexually aversive, and someone who can endlessly perform oral sex without ever having to come up for air!*


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## Satya

I think that most women are attracted to men they can RESPECT. Now it can get a little tricky because based on a woman's personal values, she may respect different qualities, but there are some (shall I say) general qualities I think most, grounded and mature women would want in order to build and maintain respect. A lot of them have already been discussed on TAM rather a lot so I won't repeat them. 

Personally, these are just some qualities in Odo that help to build and maintain my respect for him:

- He is very dutiful and compassionate with his aging parents.
- He is an amazing do-er and constantly seeks to improve our quality of life with his manual skills. 
- He is constantly learning and improving himself - always wants to increase his repertoire of what he can make, build, and repair.
- He tries his best to maintain good relationships with his kids and invite them regularly to dinner or events. 
- He asks the necessary, difficult questions in situations when I do not (excellent advocacy skills). 
- He is monetarily supportive of local organizations that support art, history, and culture. 
- He is always considerate of my needs and feelings, and demonstrates this daily in his actions.
- He maintains hobbies that he enjoys and invites me to join in those hobbies if they're particularly meaningful to him. (There are always hobbies he maintains all on his own, so he can have a fun and relaxing "escape" when needed).
- He is a veritable font of knowledge and uses that knowledge to guide his decision - making and advice. If he doesn't know the answer, he'll research it.


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## EleGirl

southbound said:


> This was mentioned in another thread, and I didn't want to hijack, but would like to see how some feel about it.
> 
> Some mentioned how that guys often believe if they just be kind, loving, and good husbands, it will cause their wives to be attracted to them, which seems like it would lead to a great relationship in the bedroom; however, this seems not to be true with a lot of women.
> 
> It seems this is so off from how it should be, and it takes decades for some guys to realize it.
> 
> We also admit we have no idea why this is. I grew up believing the way I described. I thought most women were just looking for a decent, loving man. I guess my parents and grandparents generation put that in my head. It's taken me many decades to comprehend that it isn't always true.


I think that woman are often just as confused about what it is that men want. 

Part of it is that each person has their own definition of what a "kind, loving and good spouse" is. That's why the two people need to talk, learn about each other, learn about each other's needs and work to meet them.


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## Mr The Other

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> In my experience, this evolves over time.
> 
> Many young women/girls seem to be drawn to the bad boy and willing to put up with less than kind, loving treatment. But as they mature, they move closer to that ideal.
> 
> Every remarried woman I know who's husbands I have known as well, left a jackass and ended up with a much more kind, loving, man.
> 
> (there may be a gender reversed equivalent as men go for the hot chick or trophy wife and then realize what their mistake as well)
> 
> When you were raised to believe that it was important to be a kind, loving man, it was those more mature women telling you this. They just don't tell you how long it will be before it'll actually work.
> 
> It's also important to note that kind and loving doesn't mean weak or passive. It is possible to be strong, decisive, and powerful and still exude kindness and loving support. Many men have great difficulty finding that balance.


I post only from limited experience. I write more words than my limited insight deserves.

Women who have not had experience of dating decent men will disappear from the dating scene. The will be cautious. They will hear complaints from other women and assume their story is typical. It only takes one in ten men to be arseholes for most women to have some horrible experiences and be put off men as a whole. They are available, but you will have to meet them through other connections and are likely to be cautious. 

That last paragraph was theory, but I write it as a caveat to the rest. Most women I dated in their thirties, pretty much took decency and that their needs would come first almost for granted. They expected the world and often were not willing or able to provide anything. Of course, this is the women who were keen to date and stayed available. *It is not a fair selection*. But, that is me as a scientist seeing sample error! - I understand why many men are left with a very negative impression.

My experience is a male one. I will say that most of the men I respect divorced and remarried and are now happily married. I know the conventional wisdom on this is that they finally grew up. I think this rather dismisses the contribution women make.

I see many men who are very proud of their marriages. Some, a little too proud of themselves. In a relationship, if you are decent and your partner is a jackass, there is little you can do to change the relationship. If you are the jackass and your partner is decent, you can change and suddenly your relationship blooms. This is why the jackass will be convinced they have the secret and are a relationship guru. The jackasses are often not divorced, they are the smug ones offering relationship advice.

You mention your experiences being gender reversed. What I have seen amongst my friends whom I respect most, is that most have been divorced gone on to have successful second marraiges, after their first wife utterly took them for granted. Of course, it is sample bias again - I am not friends with jackasses. 

A rule of thumb I use for a decent man as opposed to a wimp is their male friends. I am suspicious of men who do not have any masculine male friends. It suggests they are uncomfortable with that part of themselves.

That is the background to why I have a very different experience to what you write. I often date younger and prettier women. You might see me as a fool seeking a trophy wife. It is not so. I would like kids, so age is important. Most of the women I meet through the dating scene assume that I should be very grateful to be considered for the role as their provider and a step-Father. I am not content to be taken for granted in this way and would like my own kids ideally (I am not averse to step-fatherdom, but I am cautious).

My experience is often the younger women are more appreciative of decency and more willing to reciprocate it. I suspect that is not because they are younger, but such women are more likely to disappear from the dating scene by the time they are in their 30's.

The prettier bit is simply because physical attraction matters in a realtionship. I would not want my partner to be in a relationship with me if they did not find me attractive and I expect that to reply both ways.

Again, I write what I personally experienced - I certainly do not think it is representative.


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## SunCMars

Satya said:


> I think that most women are attracted to men they can RESPECT. Now it can get a little tricky because based on a woman's personal values, she may respect different qualities, but there are some (shall I say) general qualities I think most, grounded and mature women would want in order to build and maintain respect. A lot of them have already been discussed on TAM rather a lot so I won't repeat them.
> 
> Personally, these are just some qualities in Odo that help to build and maintain my respect for him:
> 
> - He is very dutiful and compassionate with his aging parents.
> - He is an amazing do-er and constantly seeks to improve our quality of life with his manual skills.
> - He is constantly learning and improving himself - always wants to increase his repertoire of what he can make, build, and repair.
> - He tries his best to maintain good relationships with his kids and invite them regularly to dinner or events.
> - He asks the necessary, difficult questions in situations when I do not (excellent advocacy skills).
> - He is monetarily supportive of local organizations that support art, history, and culture.
> - He is always considerate of my needs and feelings, and demonstrates this daily in his actions.
> - He maintains hobbies that he enjoys and invites me to join in those hobbies if they're particularly meaningful to him. (There are always hobbies he maintains all on his own, so he can have a fun and relaxing "escape" when needed).
> - He is a veritable font of knowledge and uses that knowledge to guide his decision - making and advice. If he doesn't know the answer, he'll research it.


You need to keep this list secret. Do not 'brag' about him.
Other women will try to steal him from you.

And don't say he would never fail me. Just don't say it.
Life has a thing about proving us wrong.

One other cogent point...
Life has a thing about clouding our vision, making us forget how good we have it.
Making us see 'only' the faults in our spouse...not the good.


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## Mr The Other

Satya said:


> I think that most women are attracted to men they can RESPECT. Now it can get a little tricky because based on a woman's personal values, she may respect different qualities, but there are some (shall I say) general qualities I think most, grounded and mature women would want in order to build and maintain respect. A lot of them have already been discussed on TAM rather a lot so I won't repeat them.
> 
> Personally, these are just some qualities in Odo that help to build and maintain my respect for him:
> 
> - He is very dutiful and compassionate with his aging parents.
> - He is an amazing do-er and constantly seeks to improve our quality of life with his manual skills.
> - He is constantly learning and improving himself - always wants to increase his repertoire of what he can make, build, and repair.
> - He tries his best to maintain good relationships with his kids and invite them regularly to dinner or events.
> - He asks the necessary, difficult questions in situations when I do not (excellent advocacy skills).
> - He is monetarily supportive of local organizations that support art, history, and culture.
> - He is always considerate of my needs and feelings, and demonstrates this daily in his actions.
> - He maintains hobbies that he enjoys and invites me to join in those hobbies if they're particularly meaningful to him. (There are always hobbies he maintains all on his own, so he can have a fun and relaxing "escape" when needed).
> - He is a veritable font of knowledge and uses that knowledge to guide his decision - making and advice. If he doesn't know the answer, he'll research it.


He sounds like a great man.

It is also greatly to your credit that you are able to notice and appreciate all these attributes. I am not sure it is always easy to do in a marriage and is, to me, a very healthy sign.


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## MJJEAN

southbound said:


> Some mentioned how that guys often believe if they just be kind, loving, and good husbands, it will cause their wives to be attracted to them, which seems like it would lead to a great relationship in the bedroom; however, this seems not to be true with a lot of women.


Chemistry, physical attraction that has nothing to do with looks or personality, is responsible for sexual attraction. A man can be fair of form, kind, loving, and an all around "good" person, but if the chemical reaction isn't there the bedroom relationship will be lacking.


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## TJW

MJJEAN said:



> A man can be fair of form, kind, loving, and an all around "good" person, but if the chemical reaction isn't there the bedroom relationship will be lacking.


Interesting that you say that. My wife is attracted to men who are fair of form, and who play "kind, loving, and good" on TV. The chemical reaction is obviously there, even though she has no idea what attributes the man has in real life, other than "fair of form".

I am "kind, loving, and good" in real life, I mean in shoe leather, not just electromagnetic propagation. I can guarantee that if I were not "kind, loving, and good" my wife would not live within 10 miles of me. She states that she married me for those qualities, and she agrees that the chemical reaction is not there.

I used to think that it was because I lacked "fair of form". But I wonder if fantasy actually plays a role ?

She states over and over and over again how she "wishes" that I still worked as a musician. I'm 65 years old with heart disease, and am awaiting MI #7 and stent #8 if they can find any place to put it. I can't even stay awake until 9:00, much less go to work then.


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## uhtred

Not wanting to repeat the obvious, but there are BILLIONS of men and women. I think that there is such a wide range in what each individual wants, that general rules are useless.


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## Rowan

I always find it a bit puzzling when I hear guys lament that solid, good, kind, men don't hold long-term sexual attraction for women. Honestly, do solid, good, kind women hold long-term sexual attraction for most men? No. Fit, pretty, interesting, fun, sexy women hold long-term sexual interest for men. If kind, dependable, good, and loving was all that was required, then you'd never hear men complain about being bored with their wife or their sex life, or looking for ways to "spice things up" in the bedroom, or fussing because she's let herself go, or looking for some side action with the pretty young thing at work. But you do. So, clearly, just being a good, kind, loving woman and decent wife/mother isn't enough for many men to sustain long-term sexual attraction. Rather, it seems pretty clear that some level of sex appeal is also required. 

And, as it turns out, the same is true for men. Being a kind, decent, loving, good person makes you a great life partner. But those things alone don't automatically make you sexually appealing. 

I don't find it the least shocking that in order for your partner to be sexually excited by you, you might actually need to _be_, at least on some level...sexually exciting.


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## dadstartingover

Rowan said:


> I always find it a bit puzzling when I hear guys lament that solid, good, kind, men don't hold long-term sexual attraction for women. Honestly, do solid, good, kind women hold long-term sexual attraction for most men? No. Fit, pretty, interesting, fun, sexy women hold long-term sexual interest for men. If kind, dependable, good, and loving was all that was required, then you'd never hear men complain about being bored with their wife or their sex life, or looking for ways to "spice things up" in the bedroom, or fussing because she's let herself go, or looking for some side action with the pretty young thing at work. But you do. So, clearly, just being a good, kind, loving woman and decent wife/mother isn't enough for many men to sustain long-term sexual attraction. Rather, it seems pretty clear that some level of sex appeal is also required.
> 
> And, as it turns out, the same is true for men. Being a kind, decent, loving, good person makes you a great life partner. But those things alone don't automatically make you sexually appealing.
> 
> I don't find it the least shocking that in order for your partner to be sexually excited by you, you might actually need to _be_, at least on some level...sexually exciting.


Exactly. You nailed it. All of the lamenting and boo-hooing about women being "only attracted to bad boys" and "my awesome paycheck and great dad qualities meant nothing" all point to one thing: Men put women on a pedestal. We know WE'RE a bunch of creepy sex fiends with porn habits and wanting to bang every young thing with a skirt... but we expected more out of our mom...err... wives/girlfriends. 

The truth is that women are human. They are just as shallow as we are in the sexual realm. They have different needs, sure... but sometimes her sexual button may be as simple as "look at the arms on that guy!"


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## Satya

Mr The Other said:


> He sounds like a great man.
> 
> It is also greatly to your credit that you are able to notice and appreciate all these attributes. I am not sure it is always easy to do in a marriage and is, to me, a very healthy sign.


Thank you for saying so.

I can promise you that when I was younger and in my first marriage, I did not know the importance of such things, never mind recognizing them in another (a partner).


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## MrsHolland

southbound said:


> This was mentioned in another thread, and I didn't want to hijack, but would like to see how some feel about it.
> 
> Some mentioned how that *guys often believe if they just be kind, loving, and good husbands*, it will cause their wives to be attracted to them, which seems like it would lead to a great relationship in the bedroom; however, this seems not to be true with a lot of women.
> 
> It seems this is so off from how it should be, and it takes decades for some guys to realize it.
> 
> We also admit we have no idea why this is. I grew up believing the way I described. I thought most women were just looking for a decent, loving man. I guess my parents and grandparents generation put that in my head. It's taken me many decades to comprehend that it isn't always true.


Men should listen to women when it comes to learning what they want instead of listening to men, same in reverse.

Many women want kind, loving, good husbands but the word "just" has no place in this. Many women want kind, loving, interesting, involved, passionate, man that looks after himself ............ etc good husbands. 

I expect a man to bring as much as I do to the relationship so if I bring kind, loving, interesting, passionate, loves footy, going out, well kept, intelligent, social etc then I want a man that brings similar. 

The big mistake some men make is over looking the fact that *just *being kind and loving while both good qualities are kind of boring if that is all there is. I don't want a bad boy but sure do want an interesting, engaging man who brings a fun side to the relationship.


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## VibrantWings

I want a gentleman in the street but a freak in the bed 


It depends on each man individually how I feel about him sexually. Simplest way I can say it. 

There is no one standard for sexual interests, IMO.


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## uhtred

Sometimes I think there is this idea that men who are good and trustworthy must also be boring. I don't think its true - good men can be very interesting and scoundrels can be boring. 

There is a subset of (I think mostly younger) women who think scoundrels are always "interesting", buy I think most of them learn that isn't true.


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## Andy1001

There is a common misconception amongst men about women,especially hot ones.They feel that if these women have a great time dating and partying when they are young that they will eventually "settle down" and look for a "nice" guy to look after them.
WRONG! Your not going to "nice" any Rosie Huntington lookalikes to settle for you.
You need to be bringing as much to the table as she is,join a gym,wear decent clothes that fit properly,maybe learn to talk about something other than sport,learn how to satisfy her in bed
And make money!


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## TomatoPaste

Here's my take:

Most Women and Men have the same needs.

What is different between them is the WEIGHT of each of those needs.


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## uhtred

Fair enough, but the Rosie Huntington look-alikes need to realize that they not going "cute" any intelligent interesting men into settling for them. They need too bring something to the table other than a pretty face / shapely body. The need to be bringing as much to the table as he is, maybe become expert in some technical field, travel the world, learn to sail or scuba or fly airplanes. 

There are brilliant astrophysicists, novelists, attorneys, and aerospace engineers out there that you need to compete with. 

:grin2:

BTW, I don't know anything about Rosie Huntington, she may be a really interesting person. I'm just saying that looks alone are not enough, not implying that good looks mean that someone is not interesting. 




Andy1001 said:


> There is a common misconception amongst men about women,especially hot ones.They feel that if these women have a great time dating and partying when they are young that they will eventually "settle down" and look for a "nice" guy to look after them.
> WRONG! Your not going to "nice" any Rosie Huntington lookalikes to settle for you.
> You need to be bringing as much to the table as she is,join a gym,wear decent clothes that fit properly,maybe learn to talk about something other than sport,learn how to satisfy her in bed
> And make money!


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## Ynot

I guess my take is that I don't understand why it matters what anyone else wants. Trying to figure that out is a waste of time. Instead figure out what you want and move on from there. You will attract others who want the same things. In the end you will be happier for it. Trying to be something you are not in order to attract someone is a fools errand.


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## southbound

Ynot said:


> I guess my take is that I don't understand why it matters what anyone else wants. Trying to figure that out is a waste of time. Instead figure out what you want and move on from there. You will attract others who want the same things. In the end you will be happier for it. Trying to be something you are not in order to attract someone is a fools errand.


I agree that trying to be something you are not is not good; however, who is 100 percent who they would be in a relationship as opposed to being single?


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## Personal

southbound said:


> who is 100 percent who they would be in a relationship as opposed to being single?


I am because it works for me, it's easier to do and I can't be bothered trying to be anything else.


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## sokillme

I wrote the quote that started this thread. I have been thinking about this for a while now. One thing I would say is look at the cover of romance novels the guy in the picture is never an ordinary dude. They don't put that guy on the cover if he didn't sell books. So one thing us as men can do is get in shape. It's quite obvious that that is what they like. I think a good idea is to look at the media that is used to sell to women to see what they like. 

And honestly I think it's fair, we need to be honest if your wife is the best homemaker and mother in the whole world but is overweight and doesn't care about her appearance you are not going to be as attracted to her so why should it be any different to women.

Also women like security so wealth is part of that. It can be a false one too though.

Finally look for a women who is loyal. Frankly every women single is going to have men hitting on them, there is not a women out there who can't find a man who will sleep with them depending on how picky they are. Even more so today with the way the world is. So a woman that isn't loyal is a complete waste of time for anything other then having fun with. 

Sadly so many men who are cheated on don't get this point. They just married wrong. They were swindled, but it doesn't mean you have to double down.

All of this though doesn't explain the ones where the wives are attracted did marry well but still basically take their husband for granted and don't even try. That is just sad and a fundamental failure to understand him and his nature on her part. Just like the husband who doesn't try to emotionally connect with his wife. In both cases their spouses are starving. That was what my quote was about.


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## Ynot

southbound said:


> I agree that trying to be something you are not is not good; however, who is 100 percent who they would be in a relationship as opposed to being single?


I would say very few people are 100% themselves in a relationship.

To use a small example. You may want to golf everyday because you like to golf. It is part of who you are. It helps make you who you are. You look forward to playing everyday. It gives you time to think, It allows you to be competitive and/or creative. etc. But then you meet someone so you ratchet back the golf to 3-4 times a week in order to spend time with her. 

So now you aren't golfing 7 days a week - you have compromised this small aspect of your self in order to have a relationship. In the end life is about priorities. If golf is the number 1 priority in your life you probably won't make that compromise and you will probably not have a relationship. However if having a relationship is worth giving it up you will.

OTOH if she demands 100% of your time and you give up golf altogether you have not compromised, you have sacrificed. IMO opinion sacrifice is NOT something I see as being part of any relationship.

So chasing after something or someone on the basis of what they want will not make you happy. It will crush you. It will wear you out and break you down. Because you will always be wondering and guessing and then trying to be that instead of being who you are. 
Beyond doing what you want to do (being your self) you need to know what it is that you want to do (knowing your self). 

This, I think, is where most people (myself included) get it wrong. Because we imagine that what we want is the same as what society expects of us. Especially since we are submerged in a sea of cultural and societal messages that tell us what we must do to be "successful". So we see the ad on TV with all the attractive young hotties dancing and having fun around a cooler of Coors and come to imagine that we must drink Coors if we want that life of fun and frolic. Heck we even imagine that we want THAT life, when in reality what we really want is a nice quiet place to read a book. If that is you, you are far better off to quietly read your book than you are to head to the local beach party to find the "woman of your dreams" Because most of "our" dreams are really just figments of someone else's imagination and not our own.


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## Ynot

Personal said:


> I am because it works for me, it's easier to do and I can't be bothered trying to be anything else.


I am sure I am paraphrasing here but:

In a world where you can be anyone, why not just be you. Because everyone else is taken.


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## MJJEAN

TJW said:


> Interesting that you say that. My wife is attracted to men who are fair of form, and who play "kind, loving, and good" on TV. The chemical reaction is obviously there, even though she has no idea what attributes the man has in real life, other than "fair of form".


Chemical attraction cannot be gauged without meeting. What your wife is responding to is an idea of a person and how she imagines she'd physically respond. Not the same thing at all.

When I was younger and single I met a man who was build like a Greek God. In addition to an outstanding body, he had a handsome face and a good personality. I was all into the idea of getting my hands on that man. The whole time we were chatting, I'm thinking about kissing, caressing, and generally doing very naughty things to him that would get me arrested in multiple countries and a few US states. Later in the evening we went to a secluded spot to be alone, he kissed me, annnnd....nothing. No tingles, no spark, just the perfectly pleasant pressure of his lips, the comfortable warmth of his skin, and zero sexual arousal on my part. The man was hot, had a good personality, and definitely had some skills, but I just simply wasn't chemically attracted to him.

Chemical attraction has nothing to do with personality or appearance. It's not something we can manufacture or control or predict. It's a totally autonomous physical response and often underplayed as important in a relationship.


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## MrsHolland

MJJEAN said:


> Chemical attraction cannot be gauged without meeting. What your wife is responding to is an idea of a person and how she imagines she'd physically respond. Not the same thing at all.
> 
> When I was younger and single I met a man who was build like a Greek God. In addition to an outstanding body, he had a handsome face and a good personality. I was all into the idea of getting my hands on that man. The whole time we were chatting, I'm thinking about kissing, caressing, and generally doing very naughty things to him that would get me arrested in multiple countries and a few US states. Later in the evening we went to a secluded spot to be alone, he kissed me, annnnd....nothing. No tingles, no spark, just the perfectly pleasant pressure of his lips, the comfortable warmth of his skin, and zero sexual arousal on my part. The man was hot, had a good personality, and definitely had some skills, but I just simply wasn't chemically attracted to him.
> 
> Chemical attraction has nothing to do with personality or appearance. It's not something we can manufacture or control or predict. It's a totally autonomous physical response and often underplayed as important in a relationship.


I have been with men where the chemical attraction was off the charts and great for NSA sex or FWB but I did not want them as relationship material. When you find the person that you have both the chemical attraction with and the desire to have a relationship with because your morals, SOH and many other things match up then it is the perfect match.

IMHO there is not much more to it than luck, to meet the right person at the right time.


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## Andy1001

uhtred said:


> Fair enough, but the Rosie Huntington look-alikes need to realize that they not going "cute" any intelligent interesting men into settling for them. They need too bring something to the table other than a pretty face / shapely body. The need to be bringing as much to the table as he is, maybe become expert in some technical field, travel the world, learn to sail or scuba or fly airplanes.
> 
> There are brilliant astrophysicists, novelists, attorneys, and aerospace engineers out there that you need to compete with.
> 
> :grin2:
> 
> BTW, I don't know anything about Rosie Huntington, she may be a really interesting person. I'm just saying that looks alone are not enough, not implying that good looks mean that someone is not interesting.


>
You don't know anything about Rosie Huntington?
She speaks very highly of you!


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## uhtred

Happens a lot. Its a real problem being a physicist: I'm constantly trying to escape all the groupies. 




Andy1001 said:


> >
> You don't know anything about Rosie Huntington?
> She speaks very highly of you!


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## Taxman

My wife dated the bad boy before me. He treated her like cow dung. I kind of knew that she carried a bit of a torch. That torch was extinguished big time. She ended up friendly with the "bad boy's" wife. The bad boy was running drugs out of their home. He bought his wife diamonds only to hock them the next week. He ended up assaulting his wife, and put her in the hospital. Bad Boy is a slightly less onerous word than sociopath. Bad boys rarely grow up, and they are the furthest thing from spousal material. Last we heard, the bad boy is out of jail, his xW called police and wanted the meth out of her house. He was arrested for trafficking. He should see unfettered sunlight somewhere around 2050.


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## Andy1001

MJJEAN said:


> Chemical attraction cannot be gauged without meeting. What your wife is responding to is an idea of a person and how she imagines she'd physically respond. Not the same thing at all.
> 
> When I was younger and single I met a man who was build like a Greek God. In addition to an outstanding body, he had a handsome face and a good personality. I was all into the idea of getting my hands on that man. The whole time we were chatting, I'm thinking about kissing, caressing, and generally doing very naughty things to him that would get me arrested in multiple countries and a few US states. Later in the evening we went to a secluded spot to be alone, he kissed me, annnnd....nothing. No tingles, no spark, just the perfectly pleasant pressure of his lips, the comfortable warmth of his skin, and zero sexual arousal on my part. The man was hot, had a good personality, and definitely had some skills, but I just simply wasn't chemically attracted to him.
> 
> Chemical attraction has nothing to do with personality or appearance. It's not something we can manufacture or control or predict. It's a totally autonomous physical response and often underplayed as important in a relationship.


Did you **** him though?😈


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## MJJEAN

Andy1001 said:


> Did you **** him though?&#55357;&#56840;


Nope. I tried to feel a spark for about 10 minutes of making out, told him I just wasn't feeling it, and walked back to the party. Didn't seem to be any point ****ing him if the sex would be rather meh.


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## Andy1001

MJJEAN said:


> Nope. I tried to feel a spark for about 10 minutes of making out, told him I just wasn't feeling it, and walked back to the party. Didn't seem to be any point ****ing him if the sex would be rather meh.


That's where we differ,in your shoes I would still have had the sex.
"Feeling it" is over rated in my opinion.


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## southbound

Ynot said:


> southbound said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that trying to be something you are not is not good; however, who is 100 percent who they would be in a relationship as opposed to being single?
> 
> 
> 
> I would say very few people are 100% themselves in a relationship.
> 
> To use a small example. You may want to golf everyday because you like to golf. It is part of who you are. It helps make you who you are. You look forward to playing everyday. It gives you time to think, It allows you to be competitive and/or creative. etc. But then you meet someone so you ratchet back the golf to 3-4 times a week in order to spend time with her.
> 
> So now you aren't golfing 7 days a week - you have compromised this small aspect of your self in order to have a relationship. In the end life is about priorities. If golf is the number 1 priority in your life you probably won't make that compromise and you will probably not have a relationship. However if having a relationship is worth giving it up you will.
> 
> OTOH if she demands 100% of your time and you give up golf altogether you have not compromised, you have sacrificed. IMO opinion sacrifice is NOT something I see as being part of any relationship.
> 
> So chasing after something or someone on the basis of what they want will not make you happy. It will crush you. It will wear you out and break you down. Because you will always be wondering and guessing and then trying to be that instead of being who you are.
> Beyond doing what you want to do (being your self) you need to know what it is that you want to do (knowing your self).
> 
> This, I think, is where most people (myself included) get it wrong. Because we imagine that what we want is the same as what society expects of us. Especially since we are submerged in a sea of cultural and societal messages that tell us what we must do to be "successful". So we see the ad on TV with all the attractive young hotties dancing and having fun around a cooler of Coors and come to imagine that we must drink Coors if we want that life of fun and frolic. Heck we even imagine that we want THAT life, when in reality what we really want is a nice quiet place to read a book. If that is you, you are far better off to quietly read your book than you are to head to the local beach party to find the "woman of your dreams" Because most of "our" dreams are really just figments of someone else's imagination and not our own.
Click to expand...

You make some good points, and the golf example is a great example of what I meant when I said that nobody is 100 percent themselves in a relationship. 

My thing is that the thoughts of having a Relationship with a woman is not a terrible thought; there are aspects of it that sound rather appealing. On the other hand, I am very happy with every other aspect of my life, and even though I'm not a weirdo, I believe I would have to change a lot to please the modern woman. 

I'm no Greek god with a Brad Pitt face, but I'm not chopped liver either. I'm 49, and I recently had a good looking 32 year old woman compliment my looks. I only say this just to say that there's no huge physical barrier that would automatically disqualify interest from half the female population. 

With that said, my lifestyle probably doesn't appeal to a lot of women. For one, I'm not on the go with activities all the time. I'd describe myself as a homebody. 

For another, I'm satisfied with my income. It is very adequate to lead a comfortable lifestyle, but it's not enough to be the boat, camper, vacation, fancy car type of guy, and I'm not really interested in more projects to fund a more lavish lifestyle. 

Another is that my house is really common. It's nothing fancy at all. It's an old farmhouse, and as I often say, " it ain't fixed up," but I'm happy. 

With that said, I'm happy as a lark with everything in my life. I feel like I know myself and know what does and does not make me happy. What makes me happy isn't always new and shiny. 

So, I don't feel I can just "be myself" as most people suggest, and be someone that has women lining up at the door, but I have no intention of being anything other than myself. 

This probably sounds like complaining, but it isn't. I'm very happy because I'm being myself, but I realize I would have to make a lot of changes to be in a relationship.


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## Ynot

southbound said:


> You make some good points, and the golf example is a great example of what I meant when I said that nobody is 100 percent themselves in a relationship.
> 
> My thing is that the thoughts of having a Relationship with a woman is not a terrible thought; there are aspects of it that sound rather appealing. On the other hand, I am very happy with every other aspect of my life, and even though I'm not a weirdo, I believe I would have to change a lot to please the modern woman.
> 
> I'm no Greek god with a Brad Pitt face, but I'm not chopped liver either. I'm 49, and I recently had a good looking 32 year old woman compliment my looks. I only say this just to say that there's no huge physical barrier that would automatically disqualify interest from half the female population.
> 
> With that said, my lifestyle probably doesn't appeal to a lot of women. For one, I'm not on the go with activities all the time. I'd describe myself as a homebody.
> 
> For another, I'm satisfied with my income. It is very adequate to lead a comfortable lifestyle, but it's not enough to be the boat, camper, vacation, fancy car type of guy, and I'm not really interested in more projects to fund a more lavish lifestyle.
> 
> Another is that my house is really common. It's nothing fancy at all. It's an old farmhouse, and as I often say, " it ain't fixed up," but I'm happy.
> 
> With that said, I'm happy as a lark with everything in my life. I feel like I know myself and know what does and does not make me happy. What makes me happy isn't always new and shiny.
> 
> So, I don't feel I can just "be myself" as most people suggest, and be someone that has women lining up at the door, but I have no intention of being anything other than myself.
> 
> This probably sounds like complaining, but it isn't. I'm very happy because I'm being myself, but I realize I would have to make a lot of changes to be in a relationship.


The idea should never be to have women lining up at the door. The idea should be about being happy with yourself and your life. If you do that you will attract some one who likes who you are into your life, if you are open to that. Or not if you aren't. So stop worrying about what it takes to have women lining up at the door. The reality is one good is more than enough and/or maybe one too many.


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## CuddleBug

southbound said:


> This was mentioned in another thread, and I didn't want to hijack, but would like to see how some feel about it.
> 
> Some mentioned how that guys often believe if they just be kind, loving, and good husbands, it will cause their wives to be attracted to them, which seems like it would lead to a great relationship in the bedroom; however, this seems not to be true with a lot of women.
> 
> It seems this is so off from how it should be, and it takes decades for some guys to realize it.
> 
> We also admit we have no idea why this is. I grew up believing the way I described. I thought most women were just looking for a decent, loving man. I guess my parents and grandparents generation put that in my head. It's taken me many decades to comprehend that it isn't always true.




What I've learned in life, is when the ladies are young, they want to party, live on the edge, get that bad boy and basically try to get what they can't really have, crazy sex.


When they get older, they realize that all of that isn't good for a long term relationship / marriage. Then the light bulbs turns on and they want a more mature man, still fun but more stable, reliable and strong for them and for raising kids.


Ladies want what they can't have and don't want what they can easily get.


Once they get their man, the chase is over, they know they have him and the desire to have that crazy wild sex isn't needed anymore, so the sex drive drops off. Marriage does this.


Woman know they're hot and sexy and they use this to get men and pick the one they want. Once they have their guy, it all tapers off......


Something like that.


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## Personal

^^^

If that were true @CuddleBug I would be in miserable sexless marriage like yours, yet I am not and have never been.

You would do well to not conflate your wife's personal desire to avoid having sex with you, for something that applies to all women.


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## CuddleBug

Personal said:


> ^^^
> 
> If that were true @CuddleBug I would be in miserable sexless marriage like yours, yet I am not and have never been.
> 
> You would do well to not conflate your wife's personal desire to avoid having sex with you, for something that applies to all women.




What I posted is true for the most part, what I've experienced, all my friends as well co workers, and just look at TAM.......of course this isn't everyone, only someone naive would think this and post that but this does apply to many couples.....a few here or there that this doesn't apply to isn't the majority.


I know so many friends that actually went through this and when I was young, I too went through this.....


And the question was guys misunderstanding of what women want. What's your actual experience and useful advice on this subject??


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## Personal

CuddleBug said:


> What I posted is true for the most part, what I've experienced, all my friends as well co workers, and just look at TAM.......of course this isn't everyone, only someone naive would think this and post that but this does apply to many couples.....a few here or there that this doesn't apply to isn't the majority.


Poppycock.

TAM has plenty of men who suck up sexless nominally sexual relationships, without doing anything that would actually see an end to such dreck. All while whining about those mean women who are so cruel to them, without putting their pants on and dealing with it directly. It's that kind of schtick and perspective that ensures women lose attraction for them.

If I were in your situation and actually wanted to end being in a sexless marital relationship. I would be paying attention to those who aren't in sexless long term relationship, over those who are sexless.



CuddleBug said:


> I know so many friends that actually went through this and when I was young, I too went through this.....


Then perhaps you should find new friends and broaden your experience and perspectives rather than double down on more of the same that doesn't work.



CuddleBug said:


> And the question was guys misunderstanding of what women want. What's your actual experience and useful advice on this subject??


As someone who has never experienced a sexless sexual relationship and has been desired by plenty of women, misunderstanding women hasn't been an issue.

As to advice on the topic, stop worrying about what women as a collective want and start thinking about what each woman you know and are interested in actually desire. And realise that women like men for the most part are lustful sexual animals.


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## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> That's where we differ,in your shoes I would still have had the sex.
> "Feeling it" is over rated in my opinion.


My husband always says that when you are starving a saltine looks delicious. In a long term relationship, I would not consign myself to ****ty sex in this way. But I suppose if you are starving... in the moment that saltine looks damned good. I have never been starving in that way so I don't know. I would still choose no sex over bad sex. Not "feeling it" is about the height of bad, mechanical, useless sex. I can not feel it with my hitachi. It amounts to the same thing without having to care whether or not my hitachi gets off.


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## Satya

sokillme said:


> I wrote the quote that started this thread. I have been thinking about this for a while now. One thing I would say is look at the cover of romance novels the guy in the picture is never an ordinary dude. They don't put that guy on the cover if he didn't sell books. So one thing us as men can do is get in shape. It's quite obvious that that is what they like. I think a good idea is to look at the media that is used to sell to women to see what they like.


Nah, some of us women are NOT into buff guys, but normal. 

I posted these a while ago here.


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## southbound

I just used that tongue in cheek as a figure of speech.


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## Mr The Other

Personal said:


> Poppycock.
> 
> TAM has plenty of men who suck up sexless nominally sexual relationships, without doing anything that would actually see an end to such dreck. All while whining about those mean women who are so cruel to them, without putting their pants on and dealing with it directly. It's that kind of schtick and perspective that ensures women lose attraction for them.
> 
> If I were in your situation and actually wanted to end being in a sexless marital relationship. I would be paying attention to those who aren't in sexless long term relationship, over those who are sexless.
> 
> Then perhaps you should find new friends and broaden your experience and perspectives rather than double down on more of the same that doesn't work.
> 
> As someone who has never experienced a sexless sexual relationship and has been desired by plenty of women, misunderstanding women hasn't been an issue.
> 
> As to advice on the topic, stop worrying about what women as a collective want and start thinking about what each woman you know and are interested in actually desire. And realise that women like men for the most part are lustful sexual animals.


I am a 41 year old man. I am fortunate enough to be attractive to enough women that when I started working here in Switzerland, they would travel to me for the weekends. This included an attractive 21 year old Finnish girl and a Danish girl, who is sweet, but also of medium build, blonde, blue eyes, pretty, 32J. 

I do fairly well.

I was in a sexless marriage. I stayed in shape. NMMNG did not really apply or we would not have got divorced. MMSLP would have said that I was the one who would not be interested in my ex-wife. I am glad you have never been in a sexless relationship, it was my first one. Shortly after I went to the USA and the only lady who stuck to the three date rule was one who had never had sex with her previous boyfriend of eight months.

The point to all this is a realtionship involves two. THere are men on here who make no effort and are bewildered when their wife does not want to have sex with them. There are also women who are equally adverse to making any effort. 

As you allude to in the final paragraph, it is not about either sex as a whole.


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## Ynot

"As to advice on the topic, stop worrying about what women as a collective want and start thinking about what each woman you know and are interested in actually desire. And realise that women like men for the most part are lustful sexual animals."

I agree with the last part, and partially agree with the first. I agree that men would be better off to stop thinking of women in the collective and start thinking of them as individuals. But at the same time I don't think you need to give a crap about what "all" women want or what "one" woman wants, but rather what it is that you want. If you pursue your desire, seek to fill your needs, advocate for your self, you will attract some one or ones who share those goals. In the end you will be miles ahead of the curve than you would be trying to guess what others really want. Be authentic, only good things can happen.


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## Andy1001

NobodySpecial said:


> My husband always says that when you are starving a saltine looks delicious. In a long term relationship, I would not consign myself to ****ty sex in this way. But I suppose if you are starving... in the moment that saltine looks damned good. I have never been starving in that way so I don't know. I would still choose no sex over bad sex. Not "feeling it" is about the height of bad, mechanical, useless sex. I can not feel it with my hitachi. It amounts to the same thing without having to care whether or not my hitachi gets off.


MJ wasn't talking about a long term relationship and neither was I.She met a guy at a party and hooked,she said he was very handsome,built like a Greek god and a great personality,but she wasn't "feeling"it so she didn't have sex with him.And that's fine.
From my point of view if I thought a girl was gorgeous with a great body I would have had sex with her(when I was single).I wouldn't have gave a damn about her personality or whether I was "feeling" any chemistry.I probably would never have seen her again anyway,such was the nature of my job.
Sometimes a **** is just a ****.


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## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> MJ wasn't talking about a long term relationship and neither was I.She met a guy at a party and hooked,she said he was very handsome,built like a Greek god and a great personality,but she wasn't "feeling"it so she didn't have sex with him.And that's fine.


I know. I was making a comparison. 



> From my point of view if I thought a girl was gorgeous with a great body I would have had sex with her(when I was single).I wouldn't have gave a damn about her personality or whether I was "feeling" any chemistry.I probably would never have seen her again anyway,such was the nature of my job.
> Sometimes a **** is just a ****.


Different strokes. Even "just" a f' is not very good if it is just masturbating with someone else' body for some.


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## EllisRedding

Rowan said:


> I don't find it the least shocking that in order for your partner to be sexually excited by you, you might actually need to _be_, at least on some level...sexually exciting.










:grin2:


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## Andy1001

NobodySpecial said:


> I know. I was making a comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> Different strokes. Even "just" a f' is not very good if it is just masturbating with someone else' body for some.


Is "Different strokes" a euphemism.lol.


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## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> Is "Different strokes" a euphemism.lol.


LOL! It was not intended as such. Um? YMMV?


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## Andy1001

NobodySpecial said:


> LOL! It was not intended as such. Um? YMMV?


Another euphemism!


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## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> Another euphemism!


How so?

"a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing."

I am not sure what you think I was substituting for.


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## Andy1001

NobodySpecial said:


> How so?
> 
> "a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing."
> 
> I am not sure what you think I was substituting for.


You mentioned masturbation,then you mentioned "strokes"
You then said "your mileage may vary"
I'm just yanking your chain,please don't take offence.


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## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> You mentioned masturbation,then you mentioned "strokes"
> You then said "your mileage may vary"
> I'm just yanking your chain,please don't take offence.


I am not offended! My funny bone may be broken. But I am not offended.)


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## SimplyAmorous

CuddleBug said:


> What I've learned in life, is when the ladies are young, they want to party, live on the edge, get that bad boy and basically try to get what they can't really have, crazy sex.
> 
> 
> When they get older, they realize that all of that isn't good for a long term relationship / marriage. Then the light bulbs turns on and they want a more mature man, still fun but more stable, reliable and strong for them and for raising kids.
> 
> 
> Ladies want what they can't have and don't want what they can easily get.
> 
> 
> Once they get their man, the chase is over, they know they have him and the desire to have that crazy wild sex isn't needed anymore, so the sex drive drops off. Marriage does this.
> 
> 
> Woman know they're hot and sexy and they use this to get men and pick the one they want. Once they have their guy, it all tapers off......
> 
> 
> Something like that.


I was nothing like this when I was younger... had no desire to party & was revolted by guys who slept around... I was a romantic... and wanted to find "the one"...and felt saving myself for him was an honorable and beautiful thing to do...this by no means didn't mean I was absent of a sex drive, I O very easily - from the 1st time he touched me... but my outlook, my sentimental views on sex, what it all meant TO ME... this in itself could scare many off and in today's society.. I'd have a very hard time...

When I met my husband, it just fell into place, he loved these things about me...I was very open in expressing how I felt, my dreams, being who I was... he made it all so easy... he knew early on...I wanted marriage, and a family... I was very fortunate to find him as young as I did...

Although I can admit the allure of the charming narcissitic bad boy... mostly due to sex appeal / looks... I ALWAYS KNEW they were not good for me, ...that such a fling would only lead to an ending/ heartbreak of some sort -while he moved on to another...

For me.. who I gave myself to was very precious... something reserved to the man who would give me his ALL, offer his hand, his heart ....


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## sokillme

SimplyAmorous said:


> I was nothing like this when I was younger... had no desire to party & was revolted by guys who slept around... I was a romantic... and wanted to find "the one"...and felt saving myself for him was an honorable and beautiful thing to do...this by no means didn't mean I was absent of a sex drive, I O very easily - from the 1st time he touched me... but my outlook, my sentimental views on sex, what it all meant TO ME... this in itself could scare many off and in today's society.. I'd have a very hard time...
> 
> When I met my husband, it just fell into place, he loved these things about me...I was very open in expressing how I felt, my dreams, being who I was... he made it all so easy... he knew early on...I wanted marriage, and a family... I was very fortunate to find him as young as I did...
> 
> Although I can admit the allure of the charming narcissitic bad boy... mostly due to sex appeal / looks... I ALWAYS KNEW they were not good for me, ...that such a fling would only lead to an ending/ heartbreak of some sort -while he moved on to another...
> 
> For me.. who I gave myself to was very precious... something reserved to the man who would give me his ALL, offer his hand, his heart ....


You have always struck me as the kind of women you marry. Your husband got a bonus as you are HD (is that the abbreviation?) I wonder though you had an awakening in your 40's right? Do you ever feel bad, that you missed out and that you husband missed out? 

By the way Good guys can be charming and have sex appeal and looks. We just need to learn how to. Most of us were taught that we were supposed to be pushovers. I really don't know why but that was the lesson, that women like sacrificial guys. Being open about our sexuality was wrong. It took me a long time to learn about women's sexual nature and what that meant. Once I learned I was more then happy to work on making myself more like that for my wife. I don't really think it is danger or being bad, it's really about being assertive. I think some women women mistake disinterest or not callousness for assertiveness. One thing though you have to be assertive and smart, not just assertive. Being assertive and wrong too many times makes you look like a fool. Also get in shape, dress nice, make money. Muscles are good too. It's not hard. As far as making money, making money is fun, you should do that for yourself no matter what in my opinion. Maybe not your only goal but it's good one. When I was young I thought they wanted sweet and sacrificial. Teenage girls do seem to want that. Women only to a point. Being a pushover sucks.


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## SimplyAmorous

sokillme said:


> You have always struck me as the kind of women you marry. Your husband got a bonus as you are HD (is that the abbreviation?) I wonder though you had an awakening in your 40's right? Do you ever feel bad, that you missed out and that you husband missed out?


 Yes.. I had an awakening in my 40's... I have some regrets here.. I have tried to make sense of it, like who was that [email protected]# ... though one thing is for sure... even with not having as much sex back then, or focusing on spicing, novelty, different places etc... my memories of our encounters were still pleasurably intense and passionate...I always felt & have said to him.. things like.."there is no feeling in this life as heavenly, God this feels gooooood!"... getting lost in each other like that... it's the mountain top... .

Looking back, what tripped us up was: After our 1st son...I couldn't conceive...years of infertility followed... it threw a monkey wrench to our sex life...I became one-tract minded, a little obsessed ....it became more about his sperm over my own pleasure.. I really wanted a daughter also... I read to heighten the odds...I had to withhold my orgasm...I remember hating that, so the drive was still there....just overshadowed or something... then we had another 5 kids in 10 years....

Still through all that.. I had to have it so often or I would come after him.. but true.. we could have been doing it more so.. he was never one to push.. 

Now me.. I would go out of my way to excite him - so he couldn't resist.. I can't say my husband was as tenacious when his drive was higher... he just wasn't... It was GOOD I came into that... and realized....Wish it was spread out more so over our years though....


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## SimplyAmorous

I don't feel it's enough to JUST be a good man... there has to be some CHEMISTRY... some passion between a couple for them to stay connected, not losing that loving feeling.... our physical appearances DO matter to many of us... not all.. it's like the 10 love languages Dr Harley speaks of.... some have this higher on their lists over others.... some can look past weight issues... some of us would struggle with that...

Women want to feel special, loved (at least I do)... if we married a "great provider" for example... but he rarely cared to spend time with us... this is going to get old.. we can lose that loving feeling... The little things count... 

On @southbound 's post about his old country house, being a homebody & not needing the finer things.. none of this would bother a woman like me.. though other things could be more of an issue.. like a man not being romantic or feeling he is sacrificing himself to spend time with her.. If he loves the single life so much.. that to me would be a red flag alone that we'd not be compatible.. 

I would feel a "burden" knowing a man felt like this... we want him to WANT to be with us.. it shouldn't feel like a sacrifice...

Why does a man feel like this.. are these women irritating, get on his nerves... I mean I can see that -depending... last week for example...we went to a Band show ...sitting on the bleachers... some lady & 2 kids sat behind us... OMG I could not stand it.. she would NOT shut up... she was loud, encouraged her brats to be loud.. husband started making comments how he felt sorry for her husband...so I get it... some people you can only handle in small doses... we heard her comment how Dad was with his friends sitting somewhere else.. I could see why! 

But outside of that.. why wouldn't you want to hang together.. share together with your other half ??


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## TAM2013

SimplyAmorous said:


> I was nothing like this when I was younger... had no desire to party & was revolted by guys who slept around... I was a romantic... and wanted to find "the one"...and felt saving myself for him was an honorable and beautiful thing to do...this by no means didn't mean I was absent of a sex drive, I O very easily - from the 1st time he touched me... but my outlook, my sentimental views on sex, what it all meant TO ME... this in itself could scare many off and in today's society.. I'd have a very hard time...
> 
> When I met my husband, it just fell into place, he loved these things about me...I was very open in expressing how I felt, my dreams, being who I was... he made it all so easy... he knew early on...I wanted marriage, and a family... I was very fortunate to find him as young as I did...
> 
> Although I can admit the allure of the charming narcissitic bad boy... mostly due to sex appeal / looks... I ALWAYS KNEW they were not good for me, ...that such a fling would only lead to an ending/ heartbreak of some sort -while he moved on to another...
> 
> For me.. who I gave myself to was very precious... something reserved to the man who would give me his ALL, offer his hand, his heart ....


I've said it before, this is a proper woman.


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## DTO

What kind of money were you thinking? Do you mean "have a decent job and your own place"? What's the standard?

Beyond a certain level, making money IS hard. Unlike dressing well, you don't fully control your earnings. Someone has to agree to pay you a certain salary.

I believe a stable career with above-average earnings is enough; you don't need to make $100k to be considered a catch.

But since money matters at least a little and is mentioned regularly, I figured it is worth discussing.



sokillme said:


> Also get in shape, dress nice, make money.


----------

