# Why



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Zero


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

moon7 said:


> The title says almost it all, already.
> 
> Why so many men seem to put lots of effort into high drama women while so low effort into "nice girls"?
> 
> ...


Probably for similar reasons so many women pursue jerks?

Excitement and tension often get a sort of sexual response often.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I mostly avoided the drama girls. It was amusing and alarming when I would turn down what one of them was offering but I guess those were entitled drama queens as well.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I wonder if it has to do with the idea that men like to chase, and when things come too easily, it makes them feel like it’s not worth it.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Probably for similar reasons so many women pursue jerks?
> 
> Excitement and tension often get a sort of sexual response often.


I've read it so many times among the manosphere like 10 years ago, but for me is like theyre talking about teenagers, bc i almost NEVER seen a woman "into jerks" among people i know and family. I mean, i know women who made mistakes and dated a guy who seemed nice. But, you know, the guy seemed to be a nice person.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

moon7 said:


> I've read it so many times among the manosphere like 10 years ago, but for me is like theyre talking about teenagers, bc i almost NEVER seen a woman "into jerks" among people i know and family. I mean, i know women who made mistakes and dated a guy who seemed nice. But, you know, the guy seemed to be a nice person.


I've personally seen it mostly in the young and otherwise emotionally immature myself.

I really don't know about mature men pursuing drama queens.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Its like some men crave insecurity, manipulation, being on edge


ConanHub said:


> I've personally seen it mostly in the young and otherwise emotionally immature myself.
> 
> I really don't know about mature men pursuing drama queens.


No, i dont mean they pursue. 

I asked about they putting more effort when they happen to date one then when they date a nice girl.

I mean, if the guy is late 20s or older im sure they dated at least one of each.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

moon7 said:


> I asked about they putting more effort when they happen to date one then when they date a nice girl.
> Because they don’t have to put in the effort for the “nice girl” in your situation.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It is simple.

You must put high effort into those _High Drama_ gals.

You, need not, put that (way, extra effort) in those _Easy_ _Sweethearts_.
If you choose to smother them with love, that is your desire, but not any hard requirement.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

There are 2 big reasons for this.

Take this example. If you are a high drama, difficult to deal with woman who happens to be sexy AF, who do you date? Do you date a guy that is kinda on your level? Nope, because he can get a sexy AF girl that isn't such a pain to deal with. So, that girl ends up dating average looking guys. As a guy, there are several advantages to dating a woman that is super hot, out of your league, and that average looking guy will work his butt off to make sure he can continue reaping the rewards that come with that girl. 

The 2nd reason is similar. Another thing I have noticed is that a lot of these high drama girls are not only hot, but they come with a couple mental illnesses like being bipolar or schizophrenia. I am speaking from experience when I say that, while it sounds bad, there is something addictive about that trainwreck, constant drama that can come from dating one of these women. When things are good, man are they ever good. When things are bad....even worse.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

moon7 said:


> Its like some men crave insecurity, manipulation, being on edge
> 
> No, i dont mean they pursue.
> 
> ...


Oh. Maybe it comes down to the basic desire to please someone.

Trying to please an easy going lady is easier.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

There always is that 'challenge factor'.
Some men enjoy the mental wrestling.

They do, until they no longer can stand the thought of that.

Ah, but that challenge soon becomes a high speed rollercoaster.
The sharp turns wreak havoc on ones out-stretched neck

A ladies smile and her perfume is only so much intoxicating.

A man's interest, his challenge, then becomes painful, and onerous.
Yep.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> It is simple.
> 
> You must put high effort into those _High Drama_ gals.
> 
> ...


So a woman get nothing for being a "nice girl". 

Like, you put the effort into pleasing him, into not being an ass, into trying to make his life better and easier, but... meh! 

Thats the feeling im getting.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> I wonder if it has to do with the idea that men like to chase, and when things come too easily, it makes them feel like it’s not worth it.


Yes.
A sad reality.

We all like our stimulation.
Especially, that gotten from others.

Wisdom, gained from aging puts a hard stop to that sort of thinking.
Alas, too late!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

moon7 said:


> So a woman get nothing for being a "nice girl".
> 
> Like, you put the effort into pleasing him, into not being an ass, into trying to make his life better and easier, but... meh!
> 
> Thats the feeling im getting.


So it seems.

Life (often) rolls over and crushes those who are nice. Male or female.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Nice, often equates to boring.

That dumb notion will one day burn you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

My advice?

Be a nice girl.

The world has great need for them!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Here's a thought.

Ask a bunch of people if they themselves think they are nice.

Many would answer, "Sure, most of the time".

I suspect their view of nice is them being practical and soft spoken.

That may not really meet that definition of 'nice'.

But, it is a start!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It is hard to be nice in this crazy world, on this polarized planet.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> I wonder if it has to do with the idea that men like to chase, and when things come too easily, it makes them feel like it’s not worth it.


THIS!!!

This is the feeling i get!!!

Thats why when i asked i was specific to say that i didnt mean the high drama is prettier.

Because i see it happens when both are pretty and even when the nice girl is WAY PRETTIER, like, the high drama still gets all the extras.

Its official: i'm jaded af now.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> So it seems.
> 
> Life (often) rolls over and crushes those who are nice. Male or female.


Yeah, im getting used to this reality.

At least if you dont understand EVERYBODY is fvcked at the brain in some level and forgive them all 7x7.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It is preferable and nice to keep the AF's in the warm bedroom.

Being nice should be reserved to those times while in public spaces.

Nice girls have no mandate to be too good when perched on that secluded hassock.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I would never have any interest in any man any more who wasnt easy going and easy to please. I learnt my lesson the first time. I would never live with drama and tension and having to walk on eggshells any more. I like a relaxing atmosphere at home. 
I often read threads here and honestly have no idea why anyone would either live with, marry or stay with some of the people talked about.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

moon7 said:


> The title says almost it all, already.
> 
> Why so many men seem to put lots of effort into high drama women while so low effort into "nice girls"?
> 
> ...


It's the imbalance. If you're being nicer than the situation merits like maybe because you like him more than he likes you, that will never work to your favor. You will just get taken advantage of and taken for granted.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

moon7 said:


> So a woman get nothing for being a "nice girl".
> 
> Like, you put the effort into pleasing him, into not being an ass, into trying to make his life better and easier, but... meh!
> 
> Thats the feeling im getting.


Lots of men want nice girls who dont make their lives a misery. My husband sometimes says to me, thank you for making it so easy to make you happy. His former wife was high maintenance and controlling.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Only if she's hot, though. 

I bet you can't find a woman who isn't hot AND is high drama that a man will put up with (unless he's married to her and pulls one of the -- but I can't divorce her cuz vows).

Time after time after time after time-- men will stay with and put time and energy into a batshit crazy, horrible woman-- IF SHE'S HOT. Stuff they would never tolerate if she was less attractive.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Describe a couple of instances of drama that you were aware of. (anyone can answer.)


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Only if she's hot, though.
> 
> I bet you can't find a woman who isn't hot AND is high drama that a man will put up with (unless he's married to her and pulls one of the -- but I can't divorce her cuz vows).
> 
> Time after time after time after time-- men will stay with and put time and energy into a batshit crazy, horrible woman-- IF SHE'S HOT. Stuff they would never tolerate if she was less attractive.


Which is totally crazy.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Which is totally crazy.


I mean, yeah, it kinda is, but a lot of us have done it. I did it myself when I was younger and didn't know any better. What's sad is when older, more experienced people do this dumb crap when they should know better and/or have better priorities at that point.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Moon, guys have been taught throughout history and stupidly believe that rescuing the Drama queen, aka "Damsel in distress" makes them a dashing hero, and after rescuing her, the now hero obtains a her life long commitment to him along with steady flow of poon tang. Its simple as that. Don't become jaded because men are stupid enough to fall for it several times even after getting the azzez handed to them by the dames. I prefer the nice and trustworthy chicks who have the same equipment as the drama queens but oftentimes are less inclined to let other men use it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

“When things are good, man are they ever good. When things are bad....even worse.”

my experience also.
My batshit crazy ex was beautiful, beever sex, super smart, hard worker, clean, exceptional in many ways. I worked my ass off trying to keep her happy because when she was happy, she was AMAZING.
The bad was a nightmare. Taken my years to get over it. Never again.

Dated a woman that was unreasonably beautiful to be in her 40’s and to have looked like she did. Total alcoholic. Had the best body (EXACTLY what I liked) and beautiful face— Romanian ancestry. She was on such powerful stuff for her bipolar stuff—- she was totally emotionless. I don’t even know why she wanted me there. Sure loved to see her walk around naked though.

I think men accept the batshit crazy drama queens because they check off a lot of the subconscious boxes and men keep wishing they will figure out how to straighten things out......

I’m getting pretty jaded about things with the opposite sex myself.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> It is preferable and nice to keep the AF's in the warm bedroom.
> 
> Being nice should be reserved to those times while in public spaces.
> 
> Nice girls have no mandate to be too good when perched on that secluded hassock.


Nah, doesnt work like that. 

Im way more freaky and adventurous than my husband and he shuts me down.

But i found out the things i asked again and again to try, to learn (he is my only sex partner), well, he used to do those things to an ex or exes (he disnt want to be specific. I asked directly, he dodged, dodged and dodged and dodged).

And, you know, before the 2nd kid, i was way way way way prettier than any of his exes, so the "try to impress high drama bc she is real pretty" doesnt aply here.

ò.ó

And dont come with those mental gymnastics that a person doesnt treat relationships different bc im brazilian and dont believe it, bc your husband/wife should be treated way better than any relationship before.....


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Enigma32 said:


> As a guy, there are several advantages to dating a woman that is super hot, out of your league


Really? Is that a typo for "disadvantages"? 



> Another thing I have noticed is that a lot of these high drama girls are not only hot, but they come with a couple mental illnesses like being bipolar or schizophrenia.


See what I mean?



> while it sounds bad, there is something addictive about that trainwreck, constant drama that can come from dating one of these women.


The standard theory is that the trainwreck woman reminds the man (unconsciously) of his mother.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I would never have any interest in any man any more who wasnt easy going and easy to please. I learnt my lesson the first time. I would never live with drama and tension and having to walk on eggshells any more. I like a relaxing atmosphere at home.
> I often read threads here and honestly have no idea why anyone would either live with, marry or stay with some of the people talked about.


Yeah, right?

I mean, my parents used to have so muh arguments that i would never be able to deal with this walking on eggshels type of drama youre talking about.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's the imbalance. If you're being nicer than the situation merits like maybe because you like him more than he likes you, that will never work to your favor. You will just get taken advantage of and taken for granted.


Well, it really did happen this way and you can bet now im full resentment.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I made the same mistake many times. Sometimes they just don't have it in them and sometimes they just don't care. It's best to try to kind of stay in pace with their investment and not try to win them.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> Describe a couple of instances of drama that you were aware of. (anyone can answer.)


Nothing nightmerish, only his drunk ex who he had to drive her friends everywhere while they treated him badly and whose aunt would cook food he cant eat when he went to visit (she lived with her mom and aunt) and he would get diahea everytime.

Another one who was still into her ex who dumped her and would make him answer phonecalls of the guys flirting with her.

Nothing much.

But in bed he went all the way into trying to satisfy them, would ask for nudes, while if i try to send a nude he shut me down, or i ask for kisses and foreplay.

Im angryyyy!!!

Im resentful for my almost 9 year and used TAM to complain.

Im sorry for darkening the day of you all.

Forget my horrible mood and be HAPPY you all.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Which is totally crazy.


Right?? LOL
xD

Crazey!!


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> Really? Is that a typo for "disadvantages"?
> 
> 
> See what I mean?
> ...


There are pros and cons to everything. When I was in my mid 20's I was dating a girl that used to work as a bikini model to sell motorcycles. Remember those magazines with cars and Harley Davidson's with some hot girl on the cover? That was her. She did ads for a local shop around here. She had it all. Perfect body, beautiful face, thick pretty hair, and a fun personality. She could even sing. 

Anyway, the amount of clout I got just for being with her was unreal. Other guys would look up to me like I was some sort of genius. People asking me how I managed to get a girl like her. We got better service at restaurants and bars because I was with her. I even had more women hitting on me. If I went out somewhere without her, other ladies would bring up that they saw me with some beautiful blonde girl and try to talk to me. That doesn't even take into account how nice it is to live with a girl that is so pretty that's she's basically artwork in motion. So, yeah...serious advantages. I just didn't tell everyone how painfully annoying she could be behind closed doors sometimes. Some of my close friends started to figure it out later on though.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's the imbalance. If you're being nicer than the situation merits like *maybe because you like him more than he likes you*, that will never work to your favor. You will just get taken advantage of and taken for granted.


There might be something to this.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

moon7 said:


> THIS!!!
> 
> This is the feeling i get!!!
> 
> ...


I lived this with my ex, he was supposedly a "nice guy" who wanted a nice girl, but ended up bored. Ironically he was the boring one. He was a sexual dud and felt threatened when I asked for anything not super vanilla. 

I've seen men do this even with women who aren't super hot, my conclusion is one of all: they're boring and want excitement, they like drama, it's an ego thing and they feel validated when they "overcome". 



Diana7 said:


> I would never have any interest in any man any more who wasnt easy going and easy to please. I learnt my lesson the first time. I would never live with drama and tension and having to walk on eggshells any more. I like a relaxing atmosphere at home.
> I often read threads here and honestly have no idea why anyone would either live with, marry or stay with some of the people talked about.


After living with the "walking on eggshells" environment with my exh, no way I want to deal with that BS again. I like peace in my house and anyone who requires me to play games to keep his interest can move along. 


Livvie said:


> Only if she's hot, though.
> 
> I bet you can't find a woman who isn't hot AND is high drama that a man will put up with (unless he's married to her and pulls one of the -- but I can't divorce her cuz vows).
> 
> Time after time after time after time-- men will stay with and put time and energy into a batshit crazy, horrible woman-- IF SHE'S HOT. Stuff they would never tolerate if she was less attractive.


Yup. Think about the TV shows/movies that showed the normal or geeky guys going after the cheerleaders totally ignoring other girls on their level.

Would you WANT men like that anyway? Stupid is as stupid does, I don't want stupid. Carry on...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The most popular woman I knew with men was a bipolar narcissist blonde with big boobs. I lived with her for a while. She wasn't that bad of a roommate but she was just total chaos with men. She couldn't be trusted not to hit on whoever I was dating and she'd do it by whispering in their ear about no strings just sex like a hooker does. She would book more than one date a night and then leave and be gone when they showed up. She was extremely vivacious and she was a reporter and she knew how to get people talking and make them feel like she was really interested in them as a person.

She is by far the biggest attention w**** I've ever met. If she couldn't be the center of attention in the room she would just go into a completely black mood. 

She was always getting too drunk and then sick. I learned never to go with her anywhere in her car without taking my own car because of the way she drove and also she would just disappear. One time she had an interview with the Ramones and we were all sat down in the back and she just abruptly got up and left with the tape recorder running.

Her dad was nuts and had no boundaries. so I guess she didn't have much of a chance.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I don’t like drama I went right for the nice girl.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In my old crowd I noticed a lot of guys went for the drama and exciting women when dating but then married a mild woman who would be happy to live with blinders on while they kept cheating around.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> In my old crowd I noticed a lot of guys went for the drama and exciting women when dating but then married a mild woman who would be happy to live with blinders on while they kept cheating around.


Why do these assholes bother to get married?! Just mess around with like-minded people!


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Why do these assholes bother to get married?! Just mess around with like-minded people!


Because people are selfish.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Why do these assholes bother to get married?! Just mess around with like-minded people!


Because if they don't get married people will question why they're not. Even employers give more credence to married men. Plus they want someone to cook and clean for them. And those mild women will.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Because people are selfish.


I know, but it still pisses me off.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

They're all good til they go bad so may as well pick the sexier one...😄


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Because if they don't get married people will question why they're not. Even employers give more credence to married men. Plus they want someone to cook and clean for them. And those mild women will.


Where do I find one that will cook and clean and be easy to live with? GPS coordinates, please.😋


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> Where do I find one that will cook and clean and be easy to live with? GPS coordinates, please.😋


The catch 22 is they're not easy to live with because they're boring. You just married your mother.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I like to fish, work on old cars, garden. I don’t want an “exciting” woman. I’m a boring man.

If I found one that I admired and respected, and she was good in bed I’d be happy.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Because if they don't get married people will question why they're not. Even employers give more credence to married men. Plus they want someone to cook and clean for them. And those mild women will.


That is true. Been there, done that. 


Evinrude58 said:


> Where do I find one that will cook and clean and be easy to live with? GPS coordinates, please.😋


Yeah, them days are done for most women who must work full-time. What are you baiting your trap with?

After doing the whole dutiful wife thing, I'm extremely leery of remarrying or living with a man again just to get a little sausage.



DownByTheRiver said:


> The catch 22 is they're not easy to live with because they're boring. You just married your mother.


That's the trap us easy-going women fall into, hmm? I swear people appreciate me more when I'm an asshole, than when I'm easy-going and considerate.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don’t have a lot of bait. I’m the old bald guy as mentioned in another thread. Mediocre job. Not the life of the party. 
I have a lot of projects always going on and kids, so I don’t have a lot of time, either. Most of my free time I waste on here.
I suppose that’s the problem.🤔🤔


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> I like to fish, work on old cars, garden. I don’t want an “exciting” woman. I’m a boring man.
> 
> If I found one that I admired and respected, and she was good in bed I’d be happy.


I feel ya, brother. "Exciting" women are a young man's dream, not mine. My days of wasting time with hot/crazy girls are in the past where they belong.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Treat ‘em mean, keep ‘em keen??

Also, behind a lot of these men is a little boy with a high-maintenance cold and miserable mummy. He’s still trying to please mummy, who’s never ever going to be happy and never ever going to give two hoots about her son’s happiness.

BE assured that these young high-drama girls get very old and very crazy very quickly.

They usually wind up with a drinking problem and pill addiction and a lot of cats. And that inner ugliness will start to show on their faces and bodies as they age too. So much, that people have to turn away when they are in their presence. Yes. The word witch comes to mind.

One of the most beautiful women I know is so nice to her husband and children, but when I first met her she was physically not even very beautiful! Her husband is a flirty jerk and was very good looking. But after knowing them for ten years, in her presence she makes every women in the room look small, she absolutely radiates beauty. Husband seems to have some permanent sneer glued to his face and treats her like crap. She is stunning to everyone that knows her! I don’t know how she lives like this with him, but everyone can see that he is far worse off in his hole. He’ll die miserable, I’m sure.

Kindness and being nice might see you with a jerk perpetually chasing the and you being left behind. But don’t let bitterness reign - life is long and it will catch up. You can’t fix or compete with the crazy.

And if she manages to not end up alone and keeps a marriage for very long and look beautiful in 10, 20 years... hmm, I’d like to see that. Because so far I haven’t.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> That is true. Been there, done that.
> 
> Yeah, them days are done for most women who must work full-time. What are you baiting your trap with?
> 
> ...


I have always thought though overall that people who are real easy going will have one relationship after another or one long one. but for it to be happy it needs to be two people who are easy going. I wish I was that way, but I am not.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don’t have a lot of bait. I’m the old bald guy as mentioned in another thread. Mediocre job. Not the life of the party.
> I have a lot of projects always going on and kids, so I don’t have a lot of time, either. Most of my free time I waste on here.
> I suppose that’s the problem.🤔🤔


It's not wasted because we enjoy you!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don’t have a lot of bait. I’m the old bald guy as mentioned in another thread. Mediocre job. Not the life of the party.
> I have a lot of projects always going on and kids, so I don’t have a lot of time, either. Most of my free time I waste on here.
> I suppose that’s the problem.🤔🤔


You're not an anomaly, and like they say, "there's a lid for every pot". Have you tried OLD or meetup groups for things you like? It sounds like you keep yourself busy, that's not boring. 

Hey, we have 2 members who met on here and are living a wonderful life together. Maybe there should be a TAM dating section


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Lots of men want nice girls who dont make their lives a misery. My husband sometimes says to me, thank you for making it so easy to make you happy. His former wife was high maintenance and controlling.


Same.

I often wonder this too, I mean, my bestie is married to a detective. He deals with murderers, rapists, bikies on the daily, but when he gets home he removes his balls and puts them in her purse. She controls everything he does - where he goes, who he's with, what he spends. I don't know why he tolerates it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> I feel ya, brother. "Exciting" women are a young man's dream, not mine. My days of wasting time with hot/crazy girls are in the past where they belong.


Not THAT far in the past.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

frusdil said:


> Same.
> 
> I often wonder this too, I mean, my bestie is married to a detective. He deals with murderers, rapists, bikies on the daily, but when he gets home he removes his balls and puts them in her purse. She controls everything he does - where he goes, who he's with, what he spends. I don't know why he tolerates it.


Because he's got so much on his plate that he's happy to relinquish that.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Not THAT far in the past.


LOL way to call a guy out! Actually, my last cheating ex wasn't all that attractive. She's one of those that seems like a truly nice, caring girl. She just so happened to like banging dudes on the side for money. No big deal


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I have always thought though overall that people who are real easy going will have one relationship after another or one long one. but for it to be happy it needs to be two people who are easy going. I wish I was that way, but I am not.


I would have been happy with one long relationship and doing all the domestic things for my husband and family but things certainly don't work to plan, eh? I suppose I'm one of those people, I haven't been single for most of my adult life, but I've got time yet.

I was talking to my cousin the other day and she said if things don't work out with her husband, she won't bother to remarry and just pick up hot guys from time to time "to get serviced"  . I hope they pull through, he's a decent fella and they seem to be doing well, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Enigma, I hate that she happened to you. She does sound like a weird combination. I remember when you were just very satisfied in that relationship before it all blew up and you found out. That's what I hate the most.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I hate that she happened to you. She does sound like a weird combination. I remember when you were just very satisfied in that relationship before it all blew up and you found out. That's what I hate the most.


Meh. I don't even worry about her anymore. Live and learn. Plus, I'm much happier with my GF now. 

She did the same exact thing to the next guy she was with too. I heard about that through the grapevine. Probably part of the reason she moves around every few years, she develops a reputation.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Met my almost bride on OLD. I should have smelled a rat when a beautiful, accomplished doctor lady with a sexy accent was looking online for a date. 
I’m getting so accustomed to living alone, it’s getting to the point the stress of dating just isn’t worth it.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Met my almost bride on OLD. I should have smelled a rat when a beautiful, accomplished doctor lady with a sexy accent was looking online for a date.
> I’m getting so accustomed to living alone, it’s getting to the point the stress of dating just isn’t worth it.


Awww, sorry to hear that man. I did hear that men had to deal with scammers in OLD. Maybe a meetup for hobbies then? 

Maybe if I were older, I might pack it in, but I still want love, companionship and sausage on demand


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Some people just are drawn to certain people. Some people have chemistry. 

Nice girls are like nice guys, no one wants to have sex with them. They are friend zoned.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> Here's a thought.
> 
> Ask a bunch of people if they themselves think they are nice.
> 
> ...


I'm not nice.😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> Hey, we have 2 members who met on here and are living a wonderful life together. Maybe there should be a TAM dating section


Yeah, they knew each other from here but they just got in touch with each other. Very cute and romantic.

A TAM dating section would probably be a meltdown like Chernobyl.😋


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> LOL way to call a guy out! Actually, my last cheating ex wasn't all that attractive. She's one of those that seems like a truly nice, caring girl. She just so happened to like banging dudes on the side for money. No big deal


Erk?!?!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

moon7 said:


> I've read it so many times among the manosphere like 10 years ago, but for me is like theyre talking about teenagers, bc i almost NEVER seen a woman "into jerks" among people i know and family. I mean, i know women who made mistakes and dated a guy who seemed nice. But, you know, the guy seemed to be a nice person.


Not necessarily jerks, they chase and throw themselves at guys that have ni intention of settling down and turn their nose up at the good guy husband types. I work in the law enforcement field and it makes my head hurt how often women stay in abusive relationships wanting to change him and make it work. It gets to a point where police just think if he bashes your head in it is your own fault for staying with him, you get no sympathy from us. They dont want them arrested, just make them behave.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Only if she's hot, though.
> 
> I bet you can't find a woman who isn't hot AND is high drama that a man will put up with (unless he's married to her and pulls one of the -- but I can't divorce her cuz vows).
> 
> Time after time after time after time-- men will stay with and put time and energy into a batshit crazy, horrible woman-- IF SHE'S HOT. Stuff they would never tolerate if she was less attractive.


The average looking women, be it reality or their own mind, tend not to be BSC unless they are actually certifiable.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TXTrini said:


> I lived this with my ex, he was supposedly a "nice guy" who wanted a nice girl, but ended up bored. Ironically he was the boring one. He was a sexual dud and felt threatened when I asked for anything not super vanilla.
> 
> I've seen men do this even with women who aren't super hot, my conclusion is one of all: they're boring and want excitement, they like drama, it's an ego thing and they feel validated when they "overcome".
> 
> ...


That is TV. The geeky guys know the cheerleaders are not going to give them the time of day. They admire from afar but know it would never happen.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> Because people are selfish.


Because they are immoral and lack honor.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

moon7 said:


> But in bed he went all the way into trying to satisfy them, would ask for nudes, while if i try to send a nude he shut me down, or i ask for kisses and foreplay.


If it would make you feel any better, there are likely guys right here on this site that wouldn't shut you down. Just Kiddin widju Moon. I'm thinking you might enjoy a laugh. Now to get serious. If he shuts you down when you ask for kisses or you have tell him you need foreplay, you need to ask yourself if he's the problem, if your the problem, or if both of you are the problem. Kisses and foreplay, like any other facet of sex, is highly diminished if you have to ask for it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> The average looking women, be it reality or their own mind, tend not to be BSC unless they are actually certifiable.


If you are trying to justify men staying with BSC by saying all attractive/hot women are BSC so if you want to be with any kind of attractive women it's just something you just have to put up with, I cry extreme ********.

Either that or, I'll just have to label all of those men extremely stupid/must be something mentally and emotionally wrong with them if they are deliberately making that choice to pick someone crazy.

Lastly, I will add (and this won't be popular with some men) I do think poorly of the character of men who stay long term with BSC just because she's super physically attractive.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Livvie said:


> If you are trying to justify men staying with BSC by saying all attractive/hot women are BSC so if you want to be with any kind of attractive women it's just something you just have to put up with, I cry extreme ******.
> 
> Either that or, I'll just have to label all of those men extremely stupid/must be something mentally and emotionally wrong with them if they are deliberately making that choice to pick someone crazy.
> 
> Lastly, I will add (and this won't be popular with some men) I do think poorly of the character of men who stay long term with BSC just because she's super physically attractive.


BSC..... I've seen that trait in folks across the looks spectrum.

Some of the nicest, sweetest and mentally stable women I have known were objectively very attractive.

People who find themselves in abusive relationships can get really stuck as well.

That is no excuse for initially pursuing an obvious Biatch or A hole but sometimes people are in the relationship a little too deep and the drama queen/king/manipulator has hooks in them.

My oldest son was a recovering addict and doing really well. He met a very solid and attractive woman and they seemed to be heading for something serious when his head got turned by a manipulative abuser that used her position, she worked with him and was over him, to get him to start dating her. He broke off the relationship with the solid lady and took up with his co-worker.

They were found out and both lost their jobs.

Mrs. Conan and I didn't really care for her because of the work situation but we wanted to be supportive parents and not overbearing about his choices so we were nice to her and treated her like part of the family.

By the time we found out she was BSC, our son was in her control.

I advised him not to marry her and she had such control by that time that she cut him off from us and he obeyed her. We couldn't believe the weakness he was exhibiting but she was, and had, been playing on weaknesses she had become privy to as a result of abusing her position at their job.

So he became mostly estranged from us for a few years while her drama turned to all out abuse.

He would work 14 hours a day, come home and clean the house, do the dishes then cook dinner and then clean the dishes again while she sat on the couch all day, smoking marijuana and messing around on social media.

She would constantly degrade and threaten him with cheating on him.

We were not clueless after a while and told him to leave several times but he was too far gone.

They are finally getting a divorce and my youngest son had to step in to help him break her hold on him.

The thing is, his stbx was BSC and not hot at all.

I couldn't understand the attraction but she was a very good abuser and manipulator.

My oldest was not in a good place to avoid her or fend her off and she took advantage.

I imagine that something similar happens with women sometimes.

Logically, if he would have put a fraction of the effort he exerted with the "beast" on the nice lady, they would have blossomed and grown.

There is a lot of evil in the world and a lot of folks taken advantage of.

I'm not excusing the bad decisions but I'm seeing how it is happening.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I was drinking coffee and watching the news this morning and they covered the “free Britney” movement. I scoffed until they started playing clips of her in her prime then was thinking we need to free Britney.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Meh. I don't even worry about her anymore. Live and learn. Plus, I'm much happier with my GF now.
> 
> She did the same exact thing to the next guy she was with too. I heard about that through the grapevine. Probably part of the reason she moves around every few years, she develops a reputation.


Again already? She is fast!!


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

One thing you gotta watch(and guys do this as well, to a lesser degree perhaps) is women like to trash other women that are objectively better looking than they are....You know, they'll call them tramps and easy lays, or commonly call them crazy...Sometimes women who just don't put up with any garbage get labeled with mental health issues...Guys are supposed to be like this, but many still believe if a woman isn't passive or demure, then there must be something wrong with her...I have not found this correlation at all..


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

moon7 said:


> Again already? She is fast!!


This was over 2 years ago now. Time flies, actually. But yeah, this is a small town area here and people hear everything. A lot of us all know each other from high school/college. Her next boo found out she was cheating on him also. I was at least wise enough not to part with as many greenbacks as he did though. I think she took him for thousands overall, in addition to the cheating. She moved away from the area now though.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

moon7 said:


> .....And i dont mean like the high drama is prettier or anything at all.
> 
> I get this feeling, but i dont even know if its true. Is it true (for most men)???
> 
> Idk, its like if youre nice and trustworthy your feelings and needs are way more overlooked no matter how much you talk about it or try, youre way less "helped" then a b!t¢h who doesnt give a [email protected]


In my experience it was the low drama women who hurt me the most while dating. All I felt were pretty and yet none would be what I would call a "10."

From publicly humiliated me in front of others, to literally kneeing me in the groin. I think the "low drama" women you are speaking of are mostly "nice girls" who really don't understand men and therefore don't know how to react to things that men do or want. In each of the cases, they had no idea of what they were doing and just acted totally inappropriately. Yes, afterwards they apologized profusely and explained they didn't understand the implications or destructiveness of what they did to a relationship.

At a certain point, I think many guys would prefer to date a woman who knows how to treat a man rather that putting up with all the "learning related problems" associated with "nice, low drama, inexperienced women."

In short the topic being discussed is more about men being attracted to women (of all degrees of pretty) who are experienced enough (from past relationships) to not be emotional mine fields. They are high drama only to the point that they are trying to screen out the non-marriage material from their suitors.

I can say that while I ultimately married a "nice girl" it has not been without drama.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Yeah, they knew each other from here but they just got in touch with each other. Very cute and romantic.
> 
> A TAM dating section would probably be a meltdown like Chernobyl.😋





Divinely Favored said:


> That is TV. The geeky guys know the cheerleaders are not going to give them the time of day. They admire from afar but know it would never happen.


I watched it happen IRL, admittedly in a different culture, not the US.


VladDracul said:


> If it would make you feel any better, there are likely guys right here on this site that wouldn't shut you down. Just Kiddin widju Moon. I'm thinking you might enjoy a laugh. Now to get serious. If he shuts you down when you ask for kisses or you have tell him you need foreplay, you need to ask yourself if he's the problem, if your the problem, or if both of you are the problem. Kisses and foreplay, like any other facet of sex, is highly diminished if you have to ask for it.


Sometimes this never changes. I ended up in a sexless marriage, and not from lack of asking. Sometimes you just need to know when a lost cause is a lost cause and walk away. 


Livvie said:


> If you are trying to justify men staying with BSC by saying all attractive/hot women are BSC so if you want to be with any kind of attractive women it's just something you just have to put up with, I cry extreme ******.
> 
> Either that or, I'll just have to label all of those men extremely stupid/must be something mentally and emotionally wrong with them if they are deliberately making that choice to pick someone crazy.
> 
> Lastly, I will add (and this won't be popular with some men) I do think poorly of the character of men who stay long term with BSC just because she's super physically attractive.


Same. I refuse to associate with men who tolerated that crap, if they knew from the getgo. In my experience, they will take **** from women who shovel it, and then shovel it onto more easy-going women.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Yeah, they knew each other from here but they just got in touch with each other. Very cute and romantic.
> 
> A TAM dating section would probably be a meltdown like Chernobyl.😋


Why'd you say that? I'm curious .


ConanHub said:


> BSC..... I've seen that trait in folks across the looks spectrum.
> 
> Some of the nicest, sweetest and mentally stable women I have known were objectively very attractive.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry your son dealt with that. Sounds like he traded one addiction for another, I hope he's doing much better now.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

First off some people just like the drama. Maybe the grew up in it an it was normalized. Maybe it's perversely exciting or at least interesting.

That being said here are my theories around this, some of will be conversational (and as usual I have a lot to say). Might as well get the first one out the way. Most men are motivated by beauty. But I think beauty in itself can be a catalyst for drama. I know from watching my Mom who was very beautiful (believe me I heard it from all my friends / home coming queen all that), like all the men were hitting on her all the time. Married or not. This has been most of my Mothers life since high school and still is today in her 70s. I think an immature person can mistake that and make decisions that lead to life long drama. But the beauty doesn't necessarily go away and the attention and drama follows.

My Dad who was her equal in terms of attractiveness (not to mention career success) was completely unfazed by this because it was clear he always had options. As illustrated the best because he cheated. Not to mention all the women he dated afterwords, non of which were unattractive. I say that to contrast with my stepfather who on the other hand was always out of he league and very insecure about it, not in jealously controlling way but just in the way he treated her. He wasn't a bad looking guy but he wasn't nearly as successful as my Dad. All of this created drama in our lives because I think part of the problems in the marriage was his deep resentment.

Then there is the fact that a lot of men fall under the white knight syndrome. To me a lot of that can be caused by insecurity, as in - if I continue to save this person then they must love me, and that is how I will earn worthiness of love. It's like a passive aggressive way of trying to ensure your relationship. But it should also be said that it's in our nature to want to provide and this is a way to do it, but it's a shame that some guys just don't get that there is a time to throw in the towel. In my mind this is the exact same thing as the women who always date the bad boys. It's all born out of insecurity, or a feeling of unworthiness, of hedging ones bets.

I also believe some of this is sexist, seems to me lots of men think of women as delicate flowers or little children, or even the idea that all women are foreign or crazy and you can understand them anyway so you might as well just put up with poor behavior. The thinking being, this is to be expected and just a consequence of being with women in general. If you are a Mother and you are not calling this ******** out for what it is YOU are doing your son a long term disservice and will effect his success in life. Even if your husband is "meat head" enough to reinforce this. Raise your son's to be emotionally inquisitive and intelligent! Yes we are different but even if the world was silly enough to be as different as these guys think, that doesn't make us any less accountable.

Frankly lots of men just want to get laid, and though it is controversial to say women who are less organized in their thinking or lives may be more open to having sex without thinking through the long term consequences of that. Honestly a lack of long term thinking is exactly what you are looking for if you want to use someone to have fun. Don't discount that lots of men know this. There is a reason why there is this troupe that crazy women are great in bed. Yes that is a thing, (don't shoot the messenger). Well some of the drama around these women is that they are not very structured or they don't adhere to what society thinks are norms, well that can translate to physical relationships. I am sure that will get me a lot of flack for saying it.

Also maybe some women who have the drama may be insecure or dare I say desperate enough to compromise when it comes to sex. This can be a power thing as well. Don't discount all of this.

This is my cynical take more to follow.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> In my experience it was the low drama women who hurt me the most while dating. All I felt were pretty and yet none would be what I would call a "10."
> 
> From publicly humiliated me in front of others, to literally kneeing me in the groin. I think the "low drama" women you are speaking of are mostly "nice girls" who really don't understand men and therefore don't know how to react to things that men do or want. In each of the cases, they had no idea of what they were doing and just acted totally inappropriately. Yes, afterwards they apologized profusely and explained they didn't understand the implications or destructiveness of what they did to a relationship.
> 
> ...


Respectfully, any woman who would knee you in the groin on purpose or humiliate you in public (unless provoked b assault, etc) is not a low drama or nice person. I don't buy it for a moment that someone isn't aware that is an acceptable way to treat another person.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So I gave you the cynical take but I don't want to leave it there (big surprise).

I think some people are very nice people but just unlucky or are paying for poor decision making when they were young and immature. So just because a women has drama around her doesn't mean she isn't a great catch. I mentioned my Mother in my other post, but in her defense her father who wasn't in her life much died when she was 5. She never really had a father or a father figure so her picker never really developed. A lot of her life was drama but most of that was born out of the men she picked. My Father who cheated and my Step-father who was a poor choice. Once I finally convinced her to dump him, she vowed off men forever and for the last 20 years has had a very stable thriving life.

The irony is if my Father wasn't a cheater they may have had a good marriage in the sense that my father was the perfect type of man for her. Very stable, reserved, well respected. Though I was young I still remember there was was a calmness in her with my Dad that there never was afterwords even now that she is very successful. Besides that he always had her deep respect, and until he cheated he deserved it. Besides his cheating (which agreed this is a very big failing) there is no one in my life who I have ever met who was smarter or more on the ball then my Dad. My Dad is the most impressive guy I know, and I am not just saying that because he is my Dad, much of that is the life he has lived. I could tell stories of the people he met and the things he did before he retired but I won't here to protect my anonymity. Point is he was really good at being stable as far as ordinary life, and she respected him enough to follow his lead. Some of the more crazy people that ended up being a part of my young life (mostly Church related), would have never even tried to be around if my Dad was there, and he would have told my Mom "um nope", and she would have respected him enough to listen. My Step-father on the other had attracted them. 

Another thing that brought drama was are lack of money when I was young. Being financially unstable just leads to drama. My parents divorce really contributed to that. My Dad being divorced twice and with a group of kids, essentially paying off two mortgages at the time didn't have a lot of money even though he made a very good salary. Then my Step-father couldn't keep a job. So we didn't have a lot of money. Well when you heat brakes down and you can't afford money to fix it, you ask for help. Lots of times when you are an attractive women out come the white knights. Some with good intentions, but also some with ulterior motives. All of that leads to drama

Frankly all of that is part of what a good Man brings to a family. Good Husbands/fathers bring stability. He can be the bull work and anchor for them when there is a storm. I consider that one of the most important responsibilities in my marriage. And making my wife feel safe isn't just physically but emotionally. That means planing ahead and just relieving the load at times. Hell I have learned that the so many women in our modern age seem to deal with so much guilt. Guilt that guys just don't deal with. So a lot of my role as a husband and even coworker with some authority is to say - "You are doing great, stop worrying and take a mental brake from that." For my wife it's, "the house doesn't have to be cleaned this week, please just read and relax". Or even better cleaning the house before she gets a chance. But lots of men fail at that miserably. By the way this is true for Men without women in their lives too, in other ways.

So maybe what I am saying is drama can follow single people in different ways. Don't discount that.

In the end of the day how much thought is put into any of this, often times we just pick who is around and single, at least it's better now then it used to be. When I was single it was mostly who you happened to bump into. Now everyone is connected in a way.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TXTrini said:


> Respectfully, any woman who would knee you in the groin on purpose or humiliate you in public (unless provoked b assault, etc) is not a low drama or nice person. I don't buy it for a moment that someone isn't aware that is an acceptable way to treat another person.


You are welcome to your opinions, but the woman who publicly humiliated me, I knew from grade school, and in college, I was probably the first boy she dated. She was an extremely sweet, polite, honor roll type of young woman. After our first date (and last date) to an all campus speech/lecture, she turned to a girl friend like I wasn't there, and asked her friend how she could tell me she didn't really want to go out with me again. After they finished their discussion, I told her it would have been far better to simply in private tell me she enjoyed herself, but didn't want to date me. I walked her home. She later realized what she had done and wrote me the most apologetic letter, I have ever gotten saying how sorry she was.

The one who kneed me in the groin was a very nice freshman girl, I dated in college while I was starting my sophomore year in college. We dated for a few months. We had been getting more serious and involved with making out and heavy petting to orgasm for some time and one night she freaked out. Later she explained that she had wanted to go farther to intercourse, but got so scared about her own feelings that she just needed to stop and leave, so she kneed me in the groin and left. If she had said to stop or slow down I would have respected her wishes. Instead, according to her, it was her emotions that were scaring her and she reacted in the only way she could think of to stop what was happening. 

Needless to say, I never dated either women again. In both cases, I believe it was inexperience that caused their actions. That is why in between the two of them, I liked dating women who had dated several men much more for a while. Although they were a little more maintenance, they didn't destroy me emotionally when I was vulnerable. It was much safer for me emotionally. I was just one of several guys they were interested in.

Although, these other women were fun, we never seemed to emotionally connect. Not long afterwards toward the end of my sophomore year in college, I reconnected with a nice girl I had meet at the end of my freshman year and we really did fall in love with each other. We have been married for a little less than 50 years.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> Why'd you say that? I'm curious .


There are loads of folks in bad emotional condition, coming here for help, support and advice and they are not in a great position to be getting into a new relationship or making any decisions that could impact their lives.

There was one guy that had to be seriously corrected for hitting on a vulnerable woman who came here for advice about her marriage.

I'm sure consenting adults can feel each other out here but most folks aren't looking for that on TAM.

There has been some who were harassed as well.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> I couldn't understand the attraction but she was a very good abuser and manipulator.


My theory is that the less physically attractive a woman is, the deeper the love that man has for her. Kind of like Prince Ch arles' love life.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> My theory is that the less physically attractive a woman is, the deeper the love that man has for her. Kind of like Prince Ch arles' love life.


Lol! This was a match made in heck!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> There are loads of folks in bad emotional condition, coming here for help, support and advice and they are not in a great position to be getting into a new relationship or making any decisions that could impact their lives.
> 
> There was one guy that had to be seriously corrected for hitting on a vulnerable woman who came here for advice about her marriage.
> 
> ...


That guy sounds like a real winner, but even so, that's what report and ignore are for, right?

I suppose my curiosity was more so that the people who end up single and are interested in self-development would be able to connect with other like-minded people. I can see that, but I guess I figure people should conduct themselves in a decent manner. I'm still pretty idealistic in a lot of ways.

Personally, I wouldn't message some guy on here to express interest even if I were single, b/c it doesn't seem appropriate and I'm well aware that even though many of us share our stories, we don't share 100% of it.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> You are welcome to your opinions, but the woman who publicly humiliated me, I knew from grade school, and in college, I was probably the first boy she dated. She was an extremely sweet, polite, honor roll type of young woman. After our first date (and last date) to an all campus speech/lecture, she turned to a girl friend like I wasn't there, and asked her friend how she could tell me she didn't really want to go out with me again. After they finished their discussion, I told her it would have been far better to simply in private tell me she enjoyed herself, but didn't want to date me. I walked her home. She later realized what she had done and wrote me the most apologetic letter, I have ever gotten saying how sorry she was.
> 
> The one who kneed me in the groin was a very nice freshman girl, I dated in college while I was starting my sophomore year in college. We dated for a few months. We had been getting more serious and involved with making out and heavy petting to orgasm for some time and one night she freaked out. Later she explained that she had wanted to go farther to intercourse, but got so scared about her own feelings that she just needed to stop and leave, so she kneed me in the groin and left. If she had said to stop or slow down I would have respected her wishes. Instead, according to her, it was her emotions that were scaring her and she reacted in the only way she could think of to stop what was happening.
> 
> ...


I'll take your word on it, you lived it after all.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

sokillme said:


> So I gave you the cynical take but I don't want to leave it there (big surprise).
> 
> I think some people are very nice people but just unlucky or are paying for poor decision making when they were young and immature. So just because a women has drama around her doesn't mean she isn't a great catch. I mentioned my Mother in my other post, but in her defense her father who wasn't in her life much died when she was 5. She never really had a father or a father figure so her picker never really developed. A lot of her life was drama but most of that was born out of the men she picked. My Father who cheated and my Step-father who was a poor choice. Once I finally convinced her to dump him, she vowed off men forever and for the last 20 years has had a very stable thriving life.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your story, I appreciate the insight. 

I think everyone has a certain amount of drama in their lives, and anyone who says they're 100% drama-free 100% of the time aren't very realistic/honest. 

In my experience, I choose what I will/will not deal with, and then figure out how to deal with it in a way that decreases the impact. I think, people see things from the outside, make judgments, compare their lives, and label "drama" on their scale.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TXTrini said:


> Thank you for sharing your story, I appreciate the insight.
> 
> I think everyone has a certain amount of drama in their lives, and anyone who says they're 100% drama-free 100% of the time aren't very realistic/honest.
> 
> In my experience, I choose what I will/will not deal with, and then figure out how to deal with it in a way that decreases the impact. I think, people see things from the outside, make judgments, compare their lives, and label "drama" on their scale.


Agreed in general, we all have a certain amount of tolerance, and one person's drama may be anthers normal. Also where some folks are in life my offer them little choice. 

There are also people who make decisions that they know will cause drama over and over. Who treat people in a way were drama follows. Or who are willing to put of with bad behavior that causes drama for whatever reason.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Personally, I wouldn't message some guy on here to express interest even if I were single, b/c it doesn't seem appropriate and I'm well aware that even though many of us share our stories, *we don't share 100% of it.*


I was a member on a different forum like this one and I had a couple of ladies on there message me who seemed interested. It never went anywhere though.

We are the hero of our own tale. I would love to see the other side of things for many of the stories shared here. I know I have heard both sides of a few breakups and it always puts things into perspective. Like I had an ex who told people I was abusive to her because I shoved her down hard during an argument. She failed to mention to everyone that she came at me trying to hit me in the face with a landline phone. An abusive guy would have done more than just push her away.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If you start getting involved with someone on a forum and the forum is your safe haven, once the flirtation is over, you just lost your safe haven.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

frusdil said:


> Same.
> 
> I often wonder this too, I mean, my bestie is married to a detective. He deals with murderers, rapists, bikies on the daily, but when he gets home he removes his balls and puts them in her purse. She controls everything he does - where he goes, who he's with, what he spends. I don't know why he tolerates it.


I have an employee like that, makes me nuts. He is a retired Chief Petty Officer and now acts like a new boot and wife is the Admiral. He is so stressed he takes meds for it.


Livvie said:


> If you are trying to justify men staying with BSC by saying all attractive/hot women are BSC so if you want to be with any kind of attractive women it's just something you just have to put up with, I cry extreme ******.
> 
> Either that or, I'll just have to label all of those men extremely stupid/must be something mentally and emotionally wrong with them if they are deliberately making that choice to pick someone crazy.
> 
> Lastly, I will add (and this won't be popular with some men) I do think poorly of the character of men who stay long term with BSC just because she's super physically attractive.


Said nothing about attractive/hot women.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> I have an employee like that, makes me nuts. He is a retired Chief Petty Officer and now acts like a new boot and wife is the Admiral. He is so stressed he takes meds for it.
> 
> Said nothing about attractive/hot women.


I wonder about these situations too - what makes them stay?

My cousin’s second wife is not as good looking as the first, and she does as she pleases, and controls absolutely everything. He’s not allowed any social life anymore. Meanwhile she chats online all day to guys while he works, she does nothing around the house and I just don’t get it.

First wife was drama-free, decent but moody, but in fairness she also got very upset about how he was out with the boys too much and he left her - now he’s got this one and the whole family is puzzled


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Certainly some men choose high drama, but if you're relying on forums like these to tell you the percentage that is obviously problematic. I for one have never started a thread titled "Wife Behaving Sensibly".


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> In my experience it was the low drama women who hurt me the most while dating. All I felt were pretty and yet none would be what I would call a "10."
> 
> From publicly humiliated me in front of others, to literally kneeing me in the groin. I think the "low drama" women you are speaking of are mostly "nice girls" who really don't understand men and therefore don't know how to react to things that men do or want. In each of the cases, they had no idea of what they were doing and just acted totally inappropriately. Yes, afterwards they apologized profusely and explained they didn't understand the implications or destructiveness of what they did to a relationship.
> 
> ...


You described EXACTLY what i would call a high drama woman. But then said theyre low drama??? What?

I didnt imply low drama are virgins and inexperienced (*). I dont know whats wrong with all those people saying pretty and high drama are THE SAME? Thats not my experience nor what happens around me. I really cant relate. Many real pretty women around here are "nice girls" and fine to deal with, but i still see so many men going backwards to treat a high drama so good (many of them are kinda ugly), but when theyre with a "nice girl" they dont do the effort. Thats what i meant, that what i wrote.

Id like to know why, but i'll stay with the answer of someone up there that they like the challenge, add that they like the drama too and miss it when theyre in a quiet peaceful life.

High drama: cause problems where there are none, conflict, cheat and on and on. It depends on the type of drama. (I dont mean theyre pretty or anything)

Low drama: try to talk, solve, help and vice-versa.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Qd


TXTrini said:


> Respectfully, any woman who would knee you in the groin on purpose or humiliate you in public (unless provoked b assault, etc) is not a low drama or nice person. I don't buy it for a moment that someone isn't aware that is an acceptable way to treat another person.


True. Those are what i would call high drama (but im getting the feeling some people equate "high drama=hot+experienced" and "nice girls" as ugly near-virgins or something, that are neither true -in my experience- nor what i meant).


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

SpinyNorman said:


> Certainly some men choose high drama, but if you're relying on forums like these to tell you the percentage that is obviously problematic. I for one have never started a thread titled "Wife Behaving Sensibly".


Yeah, i know im not getting anywhere.

I was only venting bc im becoming jaded hahaha

And the post just went on and on and on (i think maybe lots of people need some vent too and some have great insights too).

Sorry.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

moon7 said:


> I've read it so many times among the manosphere like 10 years ago, but for me is like theyre talking about teenagers, bc i almost NEVER seen a woman "into jerks" among people i know and family. I mean, i know women who made mistakes and dated a guy who seemed nice. But, you know, the guy seemed to be a nice person.


the jerk thing requires some nuance and explanation. Women are attracted to men other women are attracted to (preselection, which is part of mimetic desire). Even if that guy is lacking in a number of areas, including character, women like this idea of getting with a "wanted man" 

Women are also excited by guys who have sexual options and not necessarily faithful or exclusive. Men who are devoted to their girlfriends and limit their options are often viewed as emotionally immature, weak, or undesirable, by women. 

And this is a big problem. Obviously not all women have those attitudes, but it is pervasive. The philandering bad boy with status is preferable to the good, honest guy who would be an excellent husband and father. Women tell us this almost every day. We only have to look at our cutlure.

so that explains why jerks do well


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Luckylucky said:


> I wonder about these situations too - what makes them stay?
> 
> My cousin’s second wife is not as good looking as the first, and she does as she pleases, and controls absolutely everything. He’s not allowed any social life anymore. Meanwhile she chats online all day to guys while he works, she does nothing around the house and I just don’t get it.
> 
> First wife was drama-free, decent but moody, but in fairness she also got very upset about how he was out with the boys too much and he left her - now he’s got this one and the whole family is puzzled


Thats exactly what i had in mind when i asked.

High drama and the guy is all quiet and kind, while with a low drama he keeps pushing her boundaries, being unreasonable and when she complains bc he is always out with the boys or some sh!t she is seen as a mean dragon.

In my case the issue is this and more focused into the sexual aspect of the relationship (i mentioned up there, i believe).

But this example is EXACTLY the same "form".

All effort and puppy with the high drama, low effort with the nice girl (even if the nice girl is prettier, doesnt matter).

Whatever.

Thank you all for all your input, you kind people.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

moon7 said:


> The title says almost it all, already.
> 
> Why so many men seem to put lots of effort into high drama women while so low effort into "nice girls"?
> 
> ...


I see a difference. What I've noticed though are that women are no longer encouraged to be the nice girl. Rather, they are encouraged to be this boundary-laying slayer that puts her wants and needs first. She doesn't let herself get walked on.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

GC1234 said:


> I see a difference. What I've noticed though are that women are no longer encouraged to be the nice girl. Rather, they are encouraged to be this boundary-laying slayer that puts her wants and needs first. She doesn't let herself get walked on.


Honestly, that seems to be a better way to be, judging from the results of being "too nice" as a woman. Those women get treated way better. Heck, someone even wrote a book "Why men love *****es"


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Honestly, that seems to be a better way to be, judging from the results of being "too nice" as a woman. Those women get treated way better. Heck, someone even wrote a book "Why men love *****es"


Yes and no. It definitely makes more sense to be that way, so you don't get hurt and I guess you achieve that end result, whatever it may be. But, in truth, it's all a show. It's not really who we are. It's all part of the dating game. And yes I have that book...lol.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Honestly, that seems to be a better way to be, judging from the results of being "too nice" as a woman. Those women get treated way better. Heck, someone even wrote a book "Why men love *****es"


It’s hard to know how to be isn’t it? Because we hear stories here too of men eventually leaving these women or leading really miserable lives?

What to do about the controlling wife, the wife spends all my money, the wife had distanced me from my family, the wife is nasty, I work and also do the housework and my wife does nothing at home and I don’t go anywhere etc?

works for both sexes too I suppose.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> I see a difference. What I've noticed though are that women are no longer encouraged to be the nice girl. Rather, they are encouraged to be this boundary-laying slayer that puts her wants and needs first. She doesn't let herself get walked on.


Eh,....I dunno....

At the end of the day, the top tier women are always the one's that are good looking/fit, yet aren't walking around with a chip on their shoulder, knocking every guys d!ck in for sport, or hauling around more baggage than you would see at Kennedy Airport during Thanksgiving...

It's not about nice vs mean,,, There are tons of women like the one's you are describing out on social media...They spend practically all their waking hours on Twitter or the NPR FB feed spewing all kinds of shyt....You go and check out their profile and you never find any guys,....Just some dogs and cats, angry memes, some landscapes, and a few selfies..

IMO, this is why I believe a woman's stock(generally speaking) gets a bump from being a mom...They understand what it means to give of oneself and not be "all about them"...That's not to say that there aren't awesome childless women out there and  horrible moms, all I am saying is that generally speaking these women have an edge and understand how it works..


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> IMO, this is why I believe a woman's stock(generally speaking) gets a bump from being a mom...They understand what it means to give of oneself and not be "all about them"


That's rare then...because in today's dating game, if you give yourself and are too accommodating and helpful, you're out, onto the next woman. I was that woman once, believe me. I had to adapt with the times, and it sucks, but that's how it was. With a mom giving herself to her children, it's an entirely different thing.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It might be that lot of guys are on the ADHD spectrum and, therefore, needs the craziness to feel alive.

When I was dating my husband, we fell into a routine. i would go over to his place Friday evening and we would be together, for a while until Sunday afternoon; then later until Monday morning.

I started to get the feeling that I was his "wife" while his just a friend friend was his side piece. Sometimes I would cook on the weekends. Other times we would go out to eat. But in the early days, he would try to find a way to unbundle the costs of going out. "Let's have a drink here. oh can you get that? We'll have dinner over there" and so on. What I read in the messaging between my future husband and his friend, was that he more keen to cover the whole evening. This could be because there is so much written about how LT couples should split the cost of dating. I have yet to see an article on how to handle the bill and other costs when you're out with your best girl bud.

I remember a friend of mine tried to make light of my situation. "Oh, well, I'm sure because you and he regularly go out that he spends more money on you." I had to let her know but he gets so much from me. I don't go out with other men or even have a boyfriend like his "friend". We coordinated our free time together and when I had to go somewhere without him, I had to reassure that this did not include other men. For that, my time is not valued like any BOGO deal. That is, the more time you spend with someone, the less each minute is valued. Are you kidding me? If seeing someone less often means they value your time, then let's see each less often. Let me go look for a boyfriend like his "friend" had. 

Fortunately, when I took on this topic with my future husband, at least he didn't say anything crazy like "I have to pay for her, I don't see her as often." He stopped contacting her. But she gave it one more try. She asked her boyfriend to invite him to happy hour for her birthday. He didn't go as we were out for the day and the boyfriend, who probably didn't like this arrangement either invited him around 1pm on the day of. then a strange thing happened, she texted him at 11pm, closing time for pubs in the UK with the words "why didn't you come?" I knew what that meant ........ "where are you? We need someone to close the tab" as my future husband had reliably done before.

I made his choices very clear and it's been smooth running ever since.

One poster here had posited the idea that many LT relationships satisfy a person's needs 80 to 90% of the time. What does one do to satisfy that missing 10 to 20% of contentment? A mature person might join an organization or two in which one can safely interact with other people with similar interests. And those not so mature will fall for inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex. 

If you think your guy does more for some drama queen than he does for you, then give him a choice.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

moon7 said:


> So a woman get nothing for being a "nice girl".
> 
> Like, you put the effort into pleasing him, into not being an ass, into trying to make his life better and easier, but... meh!
> 
> Thats the feeling im getting.


I'm being lighthearted in sharing this response.

In our early days of dating, Batman and his friends had been partying, and he phoned me with obvious male chuckles in the background, asking in a jovial way if I would go over to cook for them / bring food. My answer was an agitated no. He then switched gears '...but I want to see you...'

'... get a photograph' was my response.

A short time later, he was at my door with pizza for us to share, 'A photograph wasn't cutting it, I wanted to see you.'


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

TXTrini said:


> After doing the whole dutiful wife thing, I'm extremely leery of remarrying or living with a man again just to get a little sausage.


I love the way you express yourself 😁

Batman and I had a little tiff last year. Both a bit stressed at the time, and he'd run out of clean underwear. Laundry is my department. He's more than capable, though. So he wasn't happy there was no clean underwear in his dresser drawer. It's not a regular occurrence. I suggested he could have let me know he was getting down to his last pair. I might have also suggested he knows how to do it. Needless to say, we had a minor spat. Anyway, I did get onto the laundry that morning (as, like I said, that's my domain). And I ordered a supply of additional underwear for him. Since then, I've ensured to be on top of the laundry. Except... this past week I've been a bit under the weather and admittedly the laundry started piling up. I checked his drawer this time and gave myself a mental pat on the back for ordering the extras as he had plenty at the ready. Then got a handle on the laundry again. #marriedlife


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> Eh,....I dunno....
> 
> At the end of the day, the top tier women are always the one's that are good looking/fit, yet aren't walking around with a chip on their shoulder, knocking every guys d!ck in for sport, or hauling around more baggage than you would see at Kennedy Airport during Thanksgiving...
> 
> ...


If you check out my social media, there's no hint of a man, a few selfies, cause my pics were old and either political or funny memes. I wiped my ex clean off everything like he didn't exist the day I decided to divorce him. By social media standards, I'm a lonely cat lady  

And no, I haven't changed my status to in a relationship, my personal life is not everyone's business.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

heartsbeating said:


> I love the way you express yourself 😁
> 
> Batman and I had a little tiff last year. Both a bit stressed at the time, and he'd run out of clean underwear. Laundry is my department. He's more than capable, though. So he wasn't happy there was no clean underwear in his dresser drawer. It's not a regular occurrence. I suggested he could have let me know he was getting down to his last pair. I might have also suggested he knows how to do it. Needless to say, we had a minor spat. Anyway, I did get onto the laundry that morning (as, like I said, that's my domain). And I ordered a supply of additional underwear for him. Since then, I've ensured to be on top of the laundry. Except... this past week I've been a bit under the weather and admittedly the laundry started piling up. I checked his drawer this time and gave myself a mental pat on the back for ordering the extras as he had plenty at the ready. Then got a handle on the laundry again. #marriedlife


Thank ya!

I've been feeling more my old self the more time passes. My big mouth used to get in SO much trouble though


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It was meaningful to my husband when we were dating for me to agree on FB that we were in a relationship. But it was still 6 months later that i had to make case for dumping her.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Great story @heartsbeating this exact thing plays out at my house except my wife has stocked so much underwear and socks the only thing I can run out of is workout shorts (despite her stocking those as well).

I don’t like telling her I am running low because it seems like I am telling her she’s doing a crappy job keeping up with my laundry needs. Every once in a while I will do a load of my stuff or put away what is in the dryer. She gets mad if I do any loads for the same reason although she doesn’t care if I unload the dryer even though my folding is sub-par.

So I have some old school “1974 NBA Eastern Conference finals” looking shorts I can wear when I run out. That is her signal.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

heartsbeating said:


> I'm being lighthearted in sharing this response.
> 
> In our early days of dating, Batman and his friends had been partying, and he phoned me with obvious male chuckles in the background, asking in a jovial way if I would go over to cook for them / bring food. My answer was an agitated no. He then switched gears '...but I want to see you...'
> 
> ...


Nah, im not a doormat like that.

Or am i?

Kidding.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

ccpowerslave said:


> So I have some old school “1974 NBA Eastern Conference finals” looking shorts I can wear when I run out. That is her signal.


 ....the 1974 shorts are out... better get onto the laundry!


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

moon7 said:


> The title says almost it all, already.
> 
> Why so many men seem to put lots of effort into high drama women while so low effort into "nice girls"?
> ...


I know I'm a little late, but I'll give my reasons why it happened to me:

1) I was naive and immature in terms of understanding what really mattered in a long term relationship & more importantly the need to have *boundaries* and how to set them.

2) "high drama" women don't tend to come out and present themselves honestly. They present their flaws and personal issues as something you can help them with and save them from. Without personal boundaries... this gets messy. Nice guys finish last... you end up putting your needs aside more than you are comfortable doing or expecting

3) we're told being a committed partner is a virtue - *and it is* - but this kindness plays into the hands of high-drama/manipulative women. In such cases it's better to cut and run sooner than later, but it takes more wisdom and experience to recognize that than I had when I was 30

and lastly...
4) she got pregnant... and I felt honor-bound to be a good husband and father, and this ended up committing me for years longer than I should have stayed.


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