# Can I get a completely unbiased opinion here?



## WonderHow

(long - sorry but lots of background)

Quick background: XW had an affair late 2011, I asked for divorce 3/2013, moved out 6/13, we both bought new houses 12/13, tried to reconcile from 7/13 - 10/14 when she said she was becoming suicidal and couldn't continue with limbo (I also couldn't fully recommit to the marriage after the affair). She is in deep despair not wanting the divorce and keeps putting everything on me for "wanting it" and now being able to go and "be free". Divorce was finalized 4/17/15.

Over the summer before things went completely south, she bought me concert tickets for a NYE show. We spend Christmas together as a family and when NYE rolls around she won't go to the concert so I invite another woman. Had an amazing time and we start dating. New girl is in the same profession (attorney) working in a similar type of law, is younger, is very athletic (as am I) and in many ways is much more compatible with me than XW. 

XW finds out about new girl in Feb and flips out. Says I picked her because she hits on every insecurity that XW has. She bullies me into breaking up and threatens to not co-parent with me and to make what was up to this point a very amicable divorce contentious. I agree but continue to see new girl. A few weeks ago she finds out that we're still seeing each other and gets as combative as I've ever seen her. She comes from a family that is very wealth, and very black and white and threatened to make the divorce as litigious as possible, presumably with her parents help, who since they are black and white now despise me (we also have / had a fairly complex marital estate). 

New girl is over when this is all going down (via text primarily) and I tell her what's happening and she offers to put things on hold until my life calms down - in a very compassionate and not I'm out of crazy-ville way. I tell XW things are done and we amicably get through divorce.

Cut to a couple of days ago and XW somehow gets on the topic of new girl. Tries to get me to say if I will / will not see her again. I try not to engage but I also have a hard time lying even when I know it's none of her business. She takes that as a yes, and all sh1t breaks loose. She now refuses to have any sort of co-parenting relationship with me unless new girl is completely out of the picture. 

I'm stuck. Basically two choices: 1) let effing crazy XW control what I do and end things with new girl, in order to preserve some sort of relationship with XW for the sake of my kids or 2) I stay with new girl who I'm becoming very attached to but also not sure I want a fully committed relationship with and deal with the wrath of XW, which ultimately just hurts the kids.

To top things off she has used new girl as a proxy for all of her hate and vitriol. She accuses her of breaking up our marriage and intentionally hurting XW. She has done drive bys of each of our houses. She's threatened to try and get her fired. She would probably physically harm her if she could get away with it. She also accuses me of having an affair and new girl as being the other woman since we were technically still married (but divorce filed and living in separate houses). 

I know that she is wrong. I know that she is manipulating me. I know that it's setting a horrible precedence. But I also know that it's best for my kids that I have some sort of amicable relationship with her.

So... any advice would be appreciated it. Also, I have no problem being told what I did was wrong so don't hold punches - I can certainly see her point of view and why it's hurtful, though know I would not have behaved the same way.


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## honcho

WonderHow said:


> (long - sorry but lots of background)
> 
> Quick background: XW had an affair late 2011, I asked for divorce 3/2013, moved out 6/13, we both bought new houses 12/13, tried to reconcile from 7/13 - 10/14 when she said she was becoming suicidal and couldn't continue with limbo (I also couldn't fully recommit to the marriage after the affair). She is in deep despair not wanting the divorce and keeps putting everything on me for "wanting it" and now being able to go and "be free". Divorce was finalized 4/17/15.
> 
> Over the summer before things went completely south, she bought me concert tickets for a NYE show. We spend Christmas together as a family and when NYE rolls around she won't go to the concert so I invite another woman. Had an amazing time and we start dating. New girl is in the same profession (attorney) working in a similar type of law, is younger, is very athletic (as am I) and in many ways is much more compatible with me than XW.
> 
> XW finds out about new girl in Feb and flips out. Says I picked her because she hits on every insecurity that XW has. She bullies me into breaking up and threatens to not co-parent with me and to make what was up to this point a very amicable divorce contentious. I agree but continue to see new girl. A few weeks ago she finds out that we're still seeing each other and gets as combative as I've ever seen her. She comes from a family that is very wealth, and very black and white and threatened to make the divorce as litigious as possible, presumably with her parents help, who since they are black and white now despise me (we also have / had a fairly complex marital estate).
> 
> New girl is over when this is all going down (via text primarily) and I tell her what's happening and she offers to put things on hold until my life calms down - in a very compassionate and not I'm out of crazy-ville way. I tell XW things are done and we amicably get through divorce.
> 
> Cut to a couple of days ago and XW somehow gets on the topic of new girl. Tries to get me to say if I will / will not see her again. I try not to engage but I also have a hard time lying even when I know it's none of her business. She takes that as a yes, and all sh1t breaks loose. She now refuses to have any sort of co-parenting relationship with me unless new girl is completely out of the picture.
> 
> I'm stuck. Basically two choices: 1) let effing crazy XW control what I do and end things with new girl, in order to preserve some sort of relationship with XW for the sake of my kids or 2) I stay with new girl who I'm becoming very attached to but also not sure I want a fully committed relationship with and deal with the wrath of XW, which ultimately just hurts the kids.
> 
> To top things off she has used new girl as a proxy for all of her hate and vitriol. She accuses her of breaking up our marriage and intentionally hurting XW. She has done drive bys of each of our houses. She's threatened to try and get her fired. She would probably physically harm her if she could get away with it. She also accuses me of having an affair and new girl as being the other woman since we were technically still married (but divorce filed and living in separate houses).
> 
> I know that she is wrong. I know that she is manipulating me. I know that it's setting a horrible precedence. But I also know that it's best for my kids that I have some sort of amicable relationship with her.
> 
> So... any advice would be appreciated it. Also, I have no problem being told what I did was wrong so don't hold punches - I can certainly see her point of view and why it's hurtful, though know I would not have behaved the same way.


So in theory you break up. Next month your ex demands something else from you, now what? Appease her again? 

You have a final divorce decree. I assume the custody etc is all laid out so just follow that. Your ex probably wont like it but she has no real desire to be amicable now does she? 

If she choses to be the bitter ex no amount of compromise on your part will help.


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## tonedef

So the divorce is final and custody is settled? If so, she cannot refuse to co parent without getting in trouble by disregarding the custody agreement, and keeping you away from your kids is parental alienation which judges frown upon. She can take you back to court and make it ugly but so can you if you have evidence of not only her threats, but her affair as well. You can't not live life because she threatens you. That is not right. What she is doing is wrong. But really, it is none of her business. Keep conversations quick and only about the kids. If she fishes for details tell her it is not her business anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

If you give in, and stop dating this woman, then what happens when you decide to date another woman. 

Your ex-wife is never going to stop harassing you about having someone else in your life. Make that stop now or you are in for quite a ride.


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## GusPolinski

WonderHow said:


> (long - sorry but lots of background)
> 
> Quick background: XW had an affair late 2011, I asked for divorce 3/2013, moved out 6/13, we both bought new houses 12/13, tried to reconcile from 7/13 - 10/14 when she said she was becoming suicidal and couldn't continue with limbo (I also couldn't fully recommit to the marriage after the affair). She is in deep despair not wanting the divorce and keeps putting everything on me for "wanting it" and now being able to go and "be free". *Divorce was finalized 4/17/15.*


Congrats! That's awesome!

:smthumbup:

Oh... wait. There's more?!?



WonderHow said:


> Over the summer before things went completely south, she bought me concert tickets for a NYE show. We spend Christmas together as a family and when NYE rolls around she won't go to the concert so I invite another woman. Had an amazing time and we start dating. New girl is in the same profession (attorney) working in a similar type of law, is younger, is very athletic (as am I) and in many ways is much more compatible with me than XW.
> 
> XW finds out about new girl in Feb and flips out. Says I picked her because she hits on every insecurity that XW has. She bullies me into breaking up and threatens to not co-parent with me and to make what was up to this point a very amicable divorce contentious. I agree but continue to see new girl. A few weeks ago she finds out that we're still seeing each other and gets as combative as I've ever seen her. She comes from a family that is very wealth, and very black and white and threatened to make the divorce as litigious as possible, presumably with her parents help, who since they are black and white now despise me (we also have / had a fairly complex marital estate).
> 
> New girl is over when this is all going down (via text primarily) and I tell her what's happening and she offers to put things on hold until my life calms down - in a very compassionate and not I'm out of crazy-ville way. I tell XW things are done and we amicably get through divorce.
> 
> Cut to a couple of days ago and XW somehow gets on the topic of new girl. Tries to get me to say if I will / will not see her again. I try not to engage but I also have a hard time lying even when I know it's none of her business. She takes that as a yes, and all sh1t breaks loose. She now refuses to have any sort of co-parenting relationship with me unless new girl is completely out of the picture.
> 
> I'm stuck. Basically two choices: 1) let effing crazy XW control what I do and end things with new girl, in order to preserve some sort of relationship with XW for the sake of my kids or 2) I stay with new girl who I'm becoming very attached to but also not sure I want a fully committed relationship with and deal with the wrath of XW, which ultimately just hurts the kids.
> 
> To top things off she has used new girl as a proxy for all of her hate and vitriol. She accuses her of breaking up our marriage and intentionally hurting XW. She has done drive bys of each of our houses. She's threatened to try and get her fired. She would probably physically harm her if she could get away with it. She also accuses me of having an affair and new girl as being the other woman since we were technically still married (but divorce filed and living in separate houses).
> 
> I know that she is wrong. I know that she is manipulating me. I know that it's setting a horrible precedence. But I also know that it's best for my kids that I have some sort of amicable relationship with her.
> 
> So... any advice would be appreciated it. Also, I have no problem being told what I did was wrong so don't hold punches - I can certainly see her point of view and why it's hurtful, though know I would not have behaved the same way.


Once you start cowering to your ex's every whim, it'll be all the more difficult for you to fully extricate her from your affairs. IOW, if you choose to end things w/ your girlfriend just because your ex doesn't like her, be prepared to wait for your ex to vet each and every single woman that you'd like to date from here on out. That's no way to live.

If she brings it up again, you could try pointing out that, if she didn't want you dating other women, she shouldn't have been f*cking other men in the first place.

She's your ex for a reason. Keep it that way. She no longer has any say in any of your personal affairs (unless, of course, there is a valid concern re: potential negative impact to your children).

No conversations w/ her that don't directly involve your children. Communicate via e-mail ONLY. Ignore her texts -- in fact, configure her contact entry on your phone so that texts from her don't generate an alert of any kind. Phone calls are for emergencies only, so you should end any phone calls that don't involve one or more of the children being rushed to either the ER or jail.


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## Ceegee

How insensitive of you to not seek your XW's blessing before dating new woman!!!

Dump her and wait until your XW gives you the green light.

And, don't ask about it. She'll tell you when it's time.


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## happy as a clam

Wonder, are you seriously going to let your ex-wife dictate your life post-divorce??? I assume you have a Shared Parenting program in place. There's not a whole lot she can do about it now. Save every text and email, record every verbal conversation (VAR or phone app) as proof in case she decides to threaten you and push it in court.

This is like allowing a dead person to dictate your life from the grave !


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## zillard

WonderHow said:


> I know that she is *wrong*. I know that she is *manipulating* me. I know that it's setting a h*orrible precedence*.


Correct. Correct. Correct. So why are you even considering allowing her to keep holding your nuts in her hand?




WonderHow said:


> But I also know that it's best for my kids that I have some sort of *amicable relationship* with her.


Exactly how much of that is up to you? 50%

Take care of your 50%. The rest is out of your control. Let it go. Eventually your kids will see and understand what is happening. 

Will they respect a eunuch of a father?


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## zillard

Amicable - having a spirit of friendliness

Does she? What makes you think you can change that?


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## Dread Pirate Roberts

WonderHow said:


> But I also know that it's best for my kids that I have some sort of amicable relationship with her.


Zillard already hit on this, but what's best for your kids is that you are the best possible father you can be to them. Which will be impossible if your life choices are being determined by your ex.

The rest of the posts have really said everything I would. You got out of that marriage for a reason. Don't let her control you from the grave of it, so to speak. And if she is really making those kinds of threats and accusations, I'd try to get some kind of documentation for it.

It's possible to have a good relationship with your kids and none with your ex. I should know, believe me. We are whatever antonym for amicable you want to pick.

Good luck,

DPR


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## maritalloneliness

You just got a divorce, so getting into a committed relationship is too soon. Continue to date this other woman and see what develops. As everyone else stated, your divorce now and your XW should have no say in your personal life. Need to remind her that marriage disintegrated because of her affair. If she's blocking your time to spend with the children petition the family courts. Also, if you have a written custody agreement you can get the police to be there when it's your time to pick up your children. Although it's fun to be free of a horrible marriage, you should be concentrating on deepening your bond with your children.


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## Jasel

Dude for real? Keep dating your gf, let your EXwife pound sand, and like someone else said, document everything. Also you should try to keep contact with the ex to text messages and emails as much as you can so you have something you can use in court just in case.


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## commonsenseisn't

Each and every time she inquires about your girlfriend inform her that that girlfriend is history because you have a new one. Act like you can't even remember all their names. 

Btw, you should wait a while before you let yourself get into a committed relationship. You're not ready yet.


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## toolforgrowth

Dude, it's time to take the red pill.

You owe this woman _nothing_ beyond what is spelled out in your divorce decree. Does your divorce decree specifically state that you can't see other women?

No?

Then politely tell your xWW to go pound sand. The only way you can get this to stop is to establish firm boundaries and _enforce them_.


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## SecondTime'Round

Your wife is not over you and insanely jealous at this thinner, younger, more athletic woman. I get it because I've been her.

However, her putting the kids in the middle by refusing to co-parent amicably is so beyond inappropriate. I think I'd gently point this out to her (in an email), remind her that you're going to just keep doing your best to be the best parent you can be, and leave it at that. And don't introduce the kids and the girlfriend unless you see a very serious chance for a long term thing. It's very likely this is a rebound relationship for you.


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## BetrayedDad

WonderHow said:


> Divorce was finalized 4/17/15.


I WonderHow you THINK your ex has this kind of power over you?!?

Your divorced is finalized. That means a parenting plan is in place. Correct? You ARE an attorney, right? So I assume the parenting schedule is spelled out seeing as this is what you do for a living. So what are you scared of? She can't withhold the children from you without violating the court order. If she does, document it. Go to court and petition to have her held in contempt.

What's the problem?!?


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## Holland

As the new partner of a man with a crazy as hell ex wife all I can say is toughen up and set the boundaries for your life, do not let you ex control you.

Mr H's ex is clinically diagnosed with serious MH issues and while I was empathetic for 3 years it hit critical point recently and I have made it clear that she is to have NO information about me/us. Trust me, any new woman in your life will suffer the fallout if you do not stand firm against her controlling ways. If you want the possibility of a good, healthy relationship in the future you must remove the toxic from your life.


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## Ceegee

Holland said:


> As the new partner of a man with a crazy as hell ex wife all I can say is toughen up and set the boundaries for your life, do not let you ex control you.
> 
> Mr H's ex is clinically diagnosed with serious MH issues and while I was empathetic for 3 years it hit critical point recently and I have made it clear that she is to have NO information about me/us. Trust me, any new woman in your life will suffer the fallout if you do not stand firm against her controlling ways. If you want the possibility of a good, healthy relationship in the future you must remove the toxic from your life.



With kids involved, you completely ignore that which cannot be removed. 

From my own situation I know your pain H, and I know the sacrifice you have to make. It can be incredibly difficult.


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## Holland

Ceegee said:


> With kids involved, you completely ignore that which cannot be removed.
> 
> From my own situation I know your pain H, and I know the sacrifice you have to make. It can be incredibly difficult.


I am one of those half glass full types and made a real effort to include his ex in our lives. I thought because my ex and I are amicable that it was the best thing to do for others as well. 

Lesson learnt. Mr H's ex has taken advantage of my nature and slowly used the relationship Mr H and I have to try and put a divide between him and his kids. So from now she gets no ammunition to twist around and use to try and control anyone.

I have had to toughen up with this issue, no more fairy land that everyone can be grown up after divorce. Seems the unbalanced become even more unbalanced. OP do not let this happen in your life or you risk losing future love.
Luckily for us we have enough history now and are strong enough that his crazy ex wife will not pull us apart but if she had of shown her true colours early on I doubt I would have hung on in there.


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## Ceegee

Holland said:


> I am one of those half glass full types and made a real effort to include his ex in our lives. I thought because my ex and I are amicable that it was the best thing to do for others as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Lesson learnt. Mr H's ex has taken advantage of my nature and slowly used the relationship Mr H and I have to try and put a divide between him and his kids. So from now she gets no ammunition to twist around and use to try and control anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> I have had to toughen up with this issue, no more fairy land that everyone can be grown up after divorce. Seems the unbalanced become even more unbalanced. OP do not let this happen in your life or you risk losing future love.
> 
> Luckily for us we have enough history now and are strong enough that his crazy ex wife will not pull us apart but if she had of shown her true colours early on I doubt I would have hung on in there.



H, I hope your SO appreciates that as much as I appreciate my SO sticking by me. 

My psych says 95% of the time things get better after some time. 

If you find things getting worse you are, more than likely, involved with a disordered person. 

Three years for me and things are worse. Much, much worse. 

OP, think of it this way (I think I have Jellybeans to thanks for this) your XW is like the grocery clerk. You are friendly and cordial to her but you don't involve her in your life. And, she certainly doesn't get to make any of your life decisions.


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## EnjoliWoman

I agree with what everyone here says. 

First of all, learn to not engage. Come up with a script you can repeat under pressure. Mine was "if we aren't going to keep to the topic of [business at hand], then I'm going to hang up/leave now". Do the same. Every time she derails the discussion, keep stating that same thing. Eventually she'll give up. She may still seethe and be difficult to co-parent with, but the verbal altercations will be minimized. It was actually in my order that we communicate by email unless a response is required immediately.

And I'm going to take it a step further but recommending you do things to prepare for future litigation because it sounds like it just might happen. You might want to let her go off the rail a few more times before you stop engaging. Record your conversations with her. Check your laws, but in most states you can as long as you are a party to the conversation. Document, document, document. Everything that shows your kids love you (drawings, cards) and that they thrive with you and you do things with them (keep ticket stubs, take photos at the park, etc. - whatever you do with them).

Almost all of the time, parents who put their kids in the middle have some degree of a personality disorder - bi-polar, narcissism or borderline personality disorder. Most parents get mad and might say something in anger which is normal, but those who really go off making crazy demands are an entirely different beast and should be regarded warily. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Until she has met someone else, you will likely be her target. And the only way she can get to you is by your kids so she will use them as a weapon. You might want to read Divorce Poison by Dr. Richard Warshack to help identify the signs and give you the tools to counter her 'poison' in an appropriate way that keeps the damage to the kids to a minimum. 

What are their ages?


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## toonaive

I dont quite understand. You are legally divorced. But, you alow you XW to manipulate you this way. You do realize your XW is still trying to control you through her jealousy? Save all her emails to you. YOu may nee them.


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## SamuraiJack

Feed her as little as possible and go about your life. 
Practice the following phrases "This is not about the kids." and "I'm sorry that doesnt work for me."

Save EVERYTHING.


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