# "I would never cheat" - TAMM



## 12345Person

I hear many men on this forum say they wouldn't cheat, but I'm not sure I believe all of you.

There have to be situations where you'd cheat, at least some of you.

If you were out of country, alone with 3 supermodels for the week, I'd think most of you would do it.

My opinion, don't take it too personally.


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## samyeagar

I was married to an NPD woman for 17 years with the final four years sexless. I am an attractive man and had plenty of opportunity to cheat during my marriage, and never did.


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## 12345Person

samyeagar said:


> I was married to an NPD woman for 17 years with the final four years sexless. I am an attractive man and had plenty of opportunity to cheat during my marriage, and never did.


Well, I did say "I don't believe ALL of you".

I think some of the posters say it to be self-righteous.


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## samyeagar

Anonymous Person said:


> *Well, I did say "I don't believe ALL of you".*
> 
> I think some of the posters say it to be self-righteous.


I know you did  And I think your observation is likely correct.


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## ScarletBegonias

You're probably right.But what's the point though? The men (and ladies) who say it to be self-righteous aren't suddenly going to log on,see this post and raise their hands "Gosh.You're right.I've been faking it all this time.I TOTALLY would cheat under the right circumstances."


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## samyeagar

ScarletBegonias said:


> You're probably right.But what's the point though? The men (and ladies) who say it to be self-righteous aren't suddenly going to log on,see this post and raise their hands "Gosh.You're right.I've been faking it all this time.I TOTALLY would cheat under the right circumstances."


I wasn't going to be the one to say it


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## ScarletBegonias

samyeagar said:


> I wasn't going to be the one to say it


Eh,just seems a little too much like pot stirring to come into the men's section and make a statement like that about men on tam without including the fact that some ladies are likely doing the same thing.

It has a vibe of trying to start some sh*t.JMHO,of course.


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## 12345Person

ScarletBegonias said:


> You're probably right.But what's the point though? The men (and ladies) who say it to be self-righteous aren't suddenly going to log on,see this post and raise their hands "Gosh.You're right.I've been faking it all this time.I TOTALLY would cheat under the right circumstances."


You never know.


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## Anon Pink

Raises hand..... I totally would cheat if George Clooney knocked on my door.


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## ScarletBegonias

Anon Pink said:


> Raises hand..... I totally would cheat if George Clooney knocked on my door.


Promise to report back if he was any good or not.I'd think he would spend the whole time trying to see himself in the mirror 


*sigh* I'll confess too.May as well. If the man vs food guy came to my door I'd likely try to talk my DH into a MFM situation.


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## DesertRat1978

During my first marriage, I came ever so close. The only thing that held me back was that the marriage was on it's way out. As soon as I realized that I had almost crossed that threshold, I told her that it was over and three weeks later, filed for divorce.


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## anchorwatch

Anonymous Person said:


> I hear many men on this forum say they wouldn't cheat, but I'm not sure I believe all of you.
> 
> *It's okay to have an opinion like that.*
> 
> There have to be situations where you'd cheat, at least some of you.
> 
> *That's an opinion that maybe true.*
> 
> If you were out of country, alone with 3 supermodels for the week, I'd think most of you would do it.
> 
> *If that's your opinion, you haven't been listening to much of what has been written here. *
> 
> My opinion, don't take it too personally.
> 
> *No problem, nothing personal. My opinion is you should pay better attention.*


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## Another Planet

ScarletBegonias said:


> Promise to report back if he was any good or not.I'd think he would spend the whole time trying to see himself in the mirror
> 
> 
> *sigh* I'll confess too.May as well. If the *man vs food guy* came to my door I'd likely try to talk my DH into a MFM situation.


What?! Adam? From the show Man vs Food? Out of all of the men in the world he would be the one you would cheat on your husband with?
Hmmm interesting


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## samyeagar

Anon Pink said:


> Raises hand..... I totally would cheat if George Clooney knocked on my door.





ScarletBegonias said:


> Promise to report back if he was any good or not.I'd think he would spend the whole time trying to see himself in the mirror
> 
> 
> *sigh* I'll confess too.May as well. If the man vs food guy came to my door I'd likely try to talk my DH into a MFM situation.


And now it goes down hill. I know that if the situations ACTUALLY arose, you would feel differently...right?

Seriously...if my STBW found herself in one of those situations, and opened her mouth to the suggestion, it would probably do irreparable harm to our relationship. I don't share.


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## ScarletBegonias

Another Planet said:


> What?! Adam? From the show Man vs Food? Out of all of the men in the world he would be the one you would cheat on your husband with?
> Hmmm interesting



aww he's soooo sexy!! I just wanna eat with him and do other stuff


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## ReformedHubby

There was a hypothetical thread a while ago about a no strings attached BJ from a random woman. The replies on that thread were absurd. Pretty much every man on TAM said they wouldn't do it. It was a stark contrast to what I believe to be true.


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## sandc

If I was stuck on a deserted island with a sex-crazed Italian swimsuit model (pick one), you're dang right I would cheat. Sort of. Is it cheating if my wife already knows that would happen?

BTW, if she's ever on a similar island with Gerard Butler and his Scottish brogue, I know she'll cheat too.

Since this is all theoretical right?


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## Another Planet

Yes that pic of Adam is very charming so I can see why.


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## ScarletBegonias

samyeagar said:


> And now it goes down hill. I know that if the situations ACTUALLY arose, you would feel differently...right?
> 
> Seriously...if my STBW found herself in one of those situations, and opened her mouth to the suggestion, it would probably do irreparable harm to our relationship. I don't share.


Of course I'd feel differently,silly 

I'm smart enough to know DH rocks me better than anyone else ever could. Why bother sampling something else? It's love,not a dessert buffet.You find the man who gets you and you stick with that man.


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## ReformedHubby

ScarletBegonias said:


> aww he's soooo sexy!! I just wanna eat with him and do other stuff


LOL, my wife likes him too. Do you like the new skinny version of him better? Wifey prefers the chubbier version. I bet he hooked up a lot filming his show. His personality really jumps out at you.


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## ScarletBegonias

ReformedHubby said:


> LOL, my wife likes him too. Do you like the new skinny version of him better? Wifey prefers the chubbier version. I bet he hooked up a lot filming his show. His personality really jumps out at you.


He's very adorable in this new skinny body but I liked him when he was a little chunkier. Not at his biggest but just a little more fluffy.


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## samyeagar

ScarletBegonias said:


> Of course I'd feel differently,silly
> 
> I'm smart enough to know DH rocks me better than anyone else ever could. Why bother sampling something else? It's love,not a dessert buffet.You find the man who gets you and you stick with that man.


Glad to hear that. This issue of what celebs you'd bang is kind of a trigger for me since I somehow lack the ability to compartimentalize people as unattainable. That is also why I just can't bring myself to even joke about what celeb chick I'd do, because honestly, I can't even bring that fantasy up in my own mind.


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## TiggyBlue

ScarletBegonias said:


> He's very adorable in this new skinny body but I liked him when he was a little chunkier. Not at his biggest but just a little more fluffy.


He has absolutely gorgeous eyes. I think he is someone who does suit a bit of weight on him.


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## Coffee Amore

Well I have a free pass from my husband if David Gandy or Hugh Jackman happened to knock on my door.


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## Sandfly

If you set up some extreme hypothetical circumstances, then you'll find people change pretty quickly, so the question is flawed in a sense.

If I was shipwrecked on an island, me, three women of any variety... and another bloke.

The bloke would be dead within a few hours, I'd smash his brains out while he was sat there picking his nose asking me what we should do next. I would loudly proclaim all the women as property, rip off my shirt, beat my chest and shake a tree.

I would have the women weaving baskets and building a tent while I went off to find things to kill for dinner. I would have one of the women be noticeably disadvantaged - confiscate her shoes and criticize and tear up her baskets, while praising the others. The three of us would eat the meat and she would get the skin and some of the offal. In this way, the other two would be too distracted by their irrational hate for her to turn on me.

BTW I would have to make you the disadvantaged person AP, because it looks like you'd be trouble otherwise.

While I slept I would tie one of each woman's legs to a tree, far away from any rocks they could brain me with.

Eventually I would have to pretend that God was speaking through me, and introduce drugs, music and dancing into our society to control their minds.

So... I guess it really depends on the circumstances. I wouldn't do any of this if it was just a business trip.


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## ConanHub

I have answered before that I wouldn't.
I have tried to put myself in the place of some of the waywards and t be honest, if I let myself go far enough down a crappy road until I found myself in a really bad place, I could probably cheat.

I think why I really never will is because I refuse to allow myself to get that low.
It really is a low point in many W's lives, if it is always something right at the surface, that could happen without much encouragement, then that persons existence is cheap and sad
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

Coffee Amore said:


> Well I have a free pass from my husband if David Gandy or Hugh Jackman happened to knock on my door.


How would that go over if you actually took him up on it?


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## sandc

ReformedHubby said:


> There was a hypothetical thread a while ago about a no strings attached BJ from a random woman. The replies on that thread were absurd. Pretty much every man on TAM said they wouldn't do it. It was a stark contrast to what I believe to be true.


You can believe it in my case. I personally would find any sort of sex with random person fairly disgusting. I may not have the best physique on the block but I like what I got and I want to keep it clean!  Having sex with a horrible person, no matter how pretty she is just wouldn't cut it for me. I'm a nice guy, I like nice women. So... on that theoretical desert island with my theoretical Italian swimsuit model, I wouldn't put out until I got to know her. Theoretically.


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## Coffee Amore

samyeagar said:


> How would that go over if you actually took him up on it?


The chances of that happening are like one in a billion.

Our relationship is lighthearted and fun. We don't take ourselves too seriously. He also has a free pass from me if Kate Beckinsale or Christina Hendricks wanted him. YMMV.


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## ScarletBegonias

My husband would be like "well,you can have him but I won't be here when you're done having him."


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## sandc

Coffee Amore said:


> Well I have a free pass from my husband if David Gandy or Hugh Jackman happened to knock on my door.


Same with Caramel. Only it's Hugh Jackman (doesn't he only like old ladies?) and Gerard Butler.

I got the same with Sofia Vergara and Monica Bellucci. I really need to see about adding Christina Hendricks to the list.


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## samyeagar

Coffee Amore said:


> *The chances of that happening are like one in a billion.*
> 
> 
> Our relationship is lighthearted and fun. We don't take ourselves too seriously. He also has a free pass from me if Kate Beckinsale or Christina Hendricks wanted him. YMMV.


See, that is what I was talking about compartimentalizing people as unattainable. Notice people don't give free passes to the totally ripped bagger at the grocery store, or the hot waitress at their favorite restaurant. In the end, what is the real difference...either way you are letting your spouse know it's ok to cheat with the right person.

I know, I know, I'm being toooo serious, and a total stick in the mud on this


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## 12345Person

If this guy came knocking at my door...










MMF threesome? Lol.


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## Coffee Amore

samyeagar said:


> See, that is what I was talking about compartimentalizing people as unattainable. Notice people don't give free passes to the totally ripped bagger at the grocery store, or the hot waitress at their favorite restaurant. In the end, what is the real difference...either way you are letting your spouse know it's ok to cheat with the right person.
> 
> I know, I know, I'm being toooo serious, and a total stick in the mud on this


Yup, you're taking it way too seriously. Sheesh.


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## DvlsAdvc8

ConanHub said:


> I think why I really never will is because I refuse to allow myself to get that low.


That's really the magic formula.


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## samyeagar

Coffee Amore said:


> Yup, you're taking it way too seriously. Sheesh.


Infidelity is one of the few things I don't really joke about, even if the other person would be in on the joke. I mean why would I even want to joke about cheating on my wife, something I truly would never do? YMMV.


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## Anon Pink

Anonymous Person said:


> If this guy came knocking at my door...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MMF threesome? Lol.


After he took a shower...maybe. That kind of buff actually turns me off unless they are an actual athlete and not just trying to look like one. IDK, is he an athlete?


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## DvlsAdvc8

samyeagar said:


> In the end, what is the real difference...either way you are letting your spouse know it's ok to cheat with the right person.


The difference is that the grocery bagger is *real*.

These things are only said about celebs because they are not real. You have a better chance of being struck by lightning. So you're not saying its okay... you're acknowledging that you have nothing to worry about because it damn sure isn't going to happen.

Realistically, in the right circumstances I think anyone will cheat. There are things you do, and things you don't do, that prevent or enable those circumstances. The best non-cheat answer that can be given IMO, is that one always works to prevent being in a situation where they are vulnerable to temptation. I don't believe for a second that anyone is immune to it. I used to think I was.

Today, I see that some are able to recognize, or are more intolerant of conditions that if they accepted, would likely lead to their own cheating at some point. These people don't get as far down the bad road to the point they are vulnerable.

For someone to cheat, who didn't plan to cheat, I think it takes a confluence of events and interests: Simultaneously not wanting to lose someone (for a variety of reasons), but not being happy with them either; then time and right person come along to throw some gasoline on those embers and all sorts of irrational behavior is ignited.

The rest weren't interested in monogamy in the first place imo, but went along because they felt they had to get anything at all.


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## DvlsAdvc8

btw... that dude has some massive quads, but is it just me or does he seem really short? Maybe its a visual trick of body proportion.


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## 12345Person

Anon Pink said:


> After he took a shower...maybe. That kind of buff actually turns me off unless they are an actual athlete and not just trying to look like one. IDK, is he an athlete?


William Zillman, a professional rugby footballer.

Google him and check out pictures of him.

He's got an awesome ass.


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## 12345Person

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> btw... that dude has some massive quads, but is it just me or does he seem really short? Maybe its a visual trick of body proportion.


5'11


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## samyeagar

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> The difference is that the grocery bagger is *real*.
> 
> These things are only said about celebs because they are not real. *You have a better chance of being struck by lightning. So you're not saying its okay... you're acknowledging that you have nothing to worry about because it damn sure isn't going to happen*.
> 
> Realistically, in the right circumstances I think anyone will cheat. There are things you do, and things you don't do, that prevent or enable those circumstances. The best non-cheat answer that can be given IMO, is that one always works to prevent being in a situation where they are vulnerable to temptation. I don't believe for a second that anyone is immune to it. I used to think I was.
> 
> Today, I see that some are able to recognize, or are more intolerant of conditions that if they accepted, would likely lead to their own cheating at some point. These people don't get as far down the bad road to the point they are vulnerable.
> 
> *For someone to cheat, who didn't plan to cheat, I think it takes a confluence of events and interests: Simultaneously not wanting to lose someone (for a variety of reasons), but not being happy with them either; then time and right person come along to throw some gasoline on those embers and all sorts of irrational behavior is ignited*.
> 
> The rest weren't interested in monogamy in the first place imo, but went along because they felt they had to get anything at all.


That confluence of events...everything coming together...the perfect storm...about as likely as being struck by lightning...


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## DvlsAdvc8

Anonymous Person said:


> 5'11


Yeah, must be a proportions thing re the thick legs. That pic gives me the impression he's shorter than me, but he's actually an inch taller.


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## Gomerpyle

Anonymous Person said:


> I think some of the posters say it to be self-righteous.


Of course. The data on affairs is pretty conclusive as it is, and points to the fact the vast majority would if the right person hit them up. 

Not sure why it is relevant though. Two thousand years ago Christ said "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone..."

Few know the end to that story. Everyone picked up a stone and threw.


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## DvlsAdvc8

samyeagar said:


> That confluence of events...everything coming together...the perfect storm...about as likely as being struck by lightning...


To land a celeb yeah. To cheat with an ordinary person, not so much. Many people will tolerate things of their spouse they shouldn't and believe "this will pass"... there are good years and bad years... he/she will change... we're working on it... blah blah blah. Then years down the road, nothing changed, but there's still so much to be lost in leaving (children?). Over time, the table is set.

I believe this happens much more often than being struck by lightning. I don't think most people believe they could cheat. And by the time they could, awareness is blocked by resentment for one's partner and the blinding charm of the third party.


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## Coffee Amore

Anonymous Person said:


> William Zillman, a professional rugby footballer.
> 
> Google him and check out pictures of him.
> 
> He's got an awesome ass.


Sonny Bill Williams who plays for New Zealand's All Blacks is pretty awesome.


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## skype

I that most of us have things that we believe that we would never do. Cheat, murder, abuse a child, steal from an elderly person, starve an animal, etc.

We would not be able to have a society if we didn't have such ideals. But of course everything is situational. You never know what you are capable of until you are faced with a certain set of circumstances. I recall the Stanford study of college students who became abusive when they were given the role of prison guards when other students were helpless prisoners:

Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They never imagined what evil would come out when they had a position of power over helpless victims.


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## Coffee Amore

Anonymous Person said:


> I hear many men on this forum say they wouldn't cheat, but I'm not sure I believe all of you.
> 
> There have to be situations where you'd cheat, at least some of you.
> 
> If you were out of country, alone with 3 supermodels for the week, I'd think most of you would do it.
> 
> My opinion, don't take it too personally.


On a more serious note, I acknowledge for the possibility that cheating could theoretically happen, so I'm careful about my boundaries. We don't have affairs because we're being careless so much as because we aren't being cautious enough. We take too much for granted and one of the things we take for granted is that infidelity is a line we won't ever cross. Better to acknowledge that under certain condition we could cheat then take action to shore up boundaries and personal conduct.


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## CuddleBug

I married a low sex drive LD insecure woman that wanted sex 1x month, nothing more and needed to loose a lot of weight.

I had many opportunities to cheat on her with younger, hot, fit women.

I chose the lesser of two evils, porn and relieving myself and not going out.

In the end, 14 years later, she is now watching how much she eats, lost 17 lbs in 7 weeks, sex 3x week now, doesn't cover herself as much and is going back to the gym in January to lose as much weight as possible.

But could I of had crazy wild sex with much younger hot women? Definitely yes.


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## 12345Person

Coffee Amore said:


> Sonny Bill Williams who plays for New Zealand's All Blacks is pretty awesome.


Nick Youngquest










Check out his pictures, too. Unforgettable ass.


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## 12345Person

Coffee Amore said:


> On a more serious note, I acknowledge for the possibility that cheating could theoretically happen, so I'm careful about my boundaries. We don't have affairs because we're being careless so much as because we aren't being cautious enough. We take too much for granted and one of the things we take for granted is that infidelity is a line we won't ever cross. Better to acknowledge that under certain condition we could cheat then take action to shore up boundaries and personal conduct.


Boundaries are important. I don't drink alcohol unless I'm with my husband, and plenty other things.


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## Faithful Wife

Anonymous said: "Check out his pictures, too. Unforgettable ass."

Are you just doing this because the "big bottomed" thread made you insecure? If not, I can't figure out what your goal is here.


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## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Anonymous said: "Check out his pictures, too. Unforgettable ass."
> 
> Are you just doing this because the "big bottomed" thread made you insecure? If not, I can't figure out what your goal is here.


And notice it's the women on this thread about MEN cheating, who are taking it down the road it has gone...The guys aren't the ones naming manes and putting up the pics of the hot chicks they'd cheat on their wives with...


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## WyshIknew

I'd like to think I wouldn't have an affair but not naïve enough to think that it was impossible.

I've resisted so far, but it has been pretty easy to resist. If I dropped my boundaries, indulged in 'risky' behaviour, partied etc. who knows?

Mrs Wysh does tell me to be careful when I go away for business as she doesn't think I realise when women are 'fishing' or hitting on me.

I've got this far, I'd hate to screw it up now.


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## sandc

Anonymous Person said:


> If this guy came knocking at my door...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MMF threesome? Lol.


I bet he'd only be interested in your husband. :lol:


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## Another Planet

sandfly said:


> if you set up some extreme hypothetical circumstances, then you'll find people change pretty quickly, so the question is flawed in a sense.
> 
> If i was shipwrecked on an island, me, three women of any variety... And another bloke.
> 
> The bloke would be dead within a few hours, i'd smash his brains out while he was sat there picking his nose asking me what we should do next. I would loudly proclaim all the women as property, rip off my shirt, beat my chest and shake a tree.
> 
> I would have the women weaving baskets and building a tent while i went off to find things to kill for dinner. I would have one of the women be noticeably disadvantaged - confiscate her shoes and criticize and tear up her baskets, while praising the others. The three of us would eat the meat and she would get the skin and some of the offal. In this way, the other two would be too distracted by their irrational hate for her to turn on me.
> 
> Btw i would have to make you the disadvantaged person ap, because it looks like you'd be trouble otherwise.
> 
> While i slept i would tie one of each woman's legs to a tree, far away from any rocks they could brain me with.
> 
> Eventually i would have to pretend that god was speaking through me, and introduce drugs, music and dancing into our society to control their minds.
> 
> So... I guess it really depends on the circumstances. I wouldn't do any of this if it was just a business trip.


omg :d


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## SimplyAmorous

I do not believe my husband would, you'd just have to know the man... He was far more patient than I would have been -when he wasn't getting enough sex... Heck I would have raised the roof off the house in comparison... He waited yrs for intercourse while dating... I think it's safe to say...he is simply not the type...he never had a desire to have sex with someone he was not in love with, it's not a part of who he is or how he conducts himself... 

I really do trust him with my life, our family...he is a man of his word... 

Now if he wasn't getting ANYTHING at home (never going to happen), she was a Beauty, she came on to him...pulled him upstairs, maybe hes a little drunk (he doesn't do bars)...but then he is paranoid about STD's, this is what runs through his mind when he looks at Hot women... thinking ...."STD's, I love my wife, STD's, I love my kids" and the fantasy is over... but if he was half raped, he might give in... 

Hardly worried about these things ...I don't think my husband is the norm by any means ....


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## samyeagar

SimplyAmorous said:


> I do not believe my husband would, you'd just have to know the man... He was far more patient than I would have been -when he wasn't getting enough sex... Heck I would have raised the roof off the house in comparison... He waited yrs for intercourse while dating... I think it's safe to say...he is simply not the type...he never had a desire to have sex with someone he was not in love with, it's not a part of who he is or how he conducts himself...
> 
> I really do trust him with my life, our family...he is a man of his word...
> 
> Now if he wasn't getting ANYTHING at home (never going to happen), she was a Beauty, she came on to him...pulled him upstairs, maybe hes a little drunk (he doesn't do bars)...but then he is paranoid about STD's, this is what runs through his mind when he looks at Hot women... thinking ...."STD's, I love my wife, STD's, I love my kids" and the fantasy is over... but if he was half raped, he might give in...
> 
> Hardly worried about these things ...*I don't think my husband is the norm by any means *....


Maybe not the norm in this regard, but hardly alone...


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## Sandfly

Another Planet said:


> omg :d


Well, ask an extremely hypothetical question, get an improbable answer 
How did these supermodels end up alone with the guy? That's science-fiction right there


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## SimplyAmorous

samyeagar said:


> Maybe not the norm in this regard, but hardly alone...


 To be very honest...why do I insist on making myself sound bad.... I would be more of a risk for cheating over him... I have FAR LESS patience, I would never put up with a lousy sex life.. my fantasies are vivid, I think I have higher dopamine over him, I could go on & on...he fulfills me so I am Happy....

But don't put ME on a desert island with a few good looking men without my husband to keep me company... I don't think I would survive that [email protected]#$

Just keeping it honest...and none of this would surprise HIM...he knows my weaknesses all too well.


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## Singledude21

I'm one of those guys, and do admit that it will be a serious test of my character if that opportunity arrives. A big motive for me is my very strong belief in Karma. I just don't want to get done someway as payback from me doing something.

The closest I've been to a situation like this is me being a possible OM. But I straight up refused because of this same philosophy.


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## ScarletBegonias

SimplyAmorous said:


> To be very honest...why do I insist on making myself sound bad.... I would be more of a risk for cheating over him... I have FAR LESS patience, I would never put up with a lousy sex life.. my fantasies are vivid, I think I have higher dopamine over him, I could go on & on...he fulfills me so I am Happy....
> 
> But don't put ME on a desert island with a few good looking men without my husband to keep me company... I don't think I would survive that [email protected]#$
> 
> Just keeping it honest...and none of this would surprise HIM...he knows my weaknesses all too well.


Same here. 

My husband would probably sulk on the other side of the island away from the hotties. P*ssed because he got stranded without me there to keep him company and snuggles. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

SimplyAmorous said:


> To be very honest...why do I insist on making myself sound bad.... I would be more of a risk for cheating over him... I have FAR LESS patience, I would never put up with a lousy sex life.. my fantasies are vivid, I think I have higher dopamine over him, I could go on & on...he fulfills me so I am Happy....
> 
> But don't put ME on a desert island with a few good looking men without my husband to keep me company... I don't think I would survive that [email protected]#$
> 
> Just keeping it honest...and none of this would surprise HIM...he knows my weaknesses all too well.


And I could be on that desert island, and not give a second thought to the other women.

With certain assumptions about that scenario...The first and biggest...is it a situation where I was just up and dropped there with no chance of ever being with my STBW again? In that scenario, I could see a chance of an emotional relationship developing over time and leading to a physical one.


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## 12345Person

samyeagar said:


> And I could be on that desert island, and not give a second thought to the other women.
> 
> With certain assumptions about that scenario...The first and biggest...is it a situation where I was just up and dropped there with no chance of ever being with my STBW again? In that scenario, I could see a chance of an emotional relationship developing over time and leading to a physical one.


Yeah, this is important.

How many days, weeks, months, years, etc., would I be stuck on that island without hubby?


----------



## southbound

Divorced now, but no, I didn't and never would have cheated.


----------



## samyeagar

Anonymous Person said:


> Yeah, this is important.
> 
> How many days, weeks, months, years, etc., would I be stuck on that island without hubby?


Of course, being in a sexless, affectionless marriage feels a lot like being stuck on that deserted island, and all you have to do is look around to see you are surrounded by beautiful, available people...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

samyeagar said:


> And I could be on that desert island, and not give a second thought to the other women.
> 
> *With certain assumptions about that scenario...The first and biggest...is it a situation where I was just up and dropped there with no chance of ever being with my STBW again? In that scenario, I could see a chance of an emotional relationship developing over time and leading to a physical one.*


Hey Sam, you are better than my husband...he said he'd give it thought adding ..."you're on a deserted island, things are hopeless, you gotta take what you can get, and if you die from STD's what does it matter, gonna die anyway"..... 

I read him my 2 posts before he added that ....he didn't think I made myself sound bad...

But like you... the HOPE , the anticipated belief that this was temporary.. You know I am a THINKER Samyeagar, all of that would be running through my head -as well as the Lust scenario ... I could hold out for so long, but when hope dies... I am going to LIVE and enjoy... As in his own words...He would understand that...and so would I.


----------



## doubletrouble

When W and I first got together, she said something about a list of 5. If either of us could have 5 people with whom we could have sex, without repercussions, who would it be? She named Eminem right on the top of her list. I struggled to come up with one, but eventually remembered Sofia Marceau. 

I didn't like the game. 

Turns out W lied anyway. POSOM was on the top of her list. I didn't give her a free pass, either. And to this day, I still have yet to meet Sofia Marceau.

ETA: But I'm not bitter.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Anonymous Person said:


> I hear many men on this forum say they wouldn't cheat, but I'm not sure I believe all of you.
> 
> There have to be situations where you'd cheat, at least some of you.
> 
> If you were out of country, alone with 3 supermodels for the week, I'd think most of you would do it.
> 
> My opinion, don't take it too personally.


I can tell you I don't believe in cheating. I haven't cheated although I've had opportunities. I will NOT tell you that under no circumstances would I cheat but I will tell you that I will consciously avoid putting myself in the situations where I might give in to the temptation. For example, despite their many attempts to get me to do it ... I have refused to go out of the country alone with 3 supermodels


----------



## samyeagar

SimplyAmorous said:


> Hey Sam, you are better than my husband...he said he'd give it thought adding ..."you're on a deserted island, things are hopeless, you gotta take what you can get, and if you die from STD's what does it matter, gonna die anyway".....
> 
> I read him my 2 posts before he added that ....he didn't think I made myself sound bad...and like you... the HOPE , the anticipated belief that this was temporary.. You know I am a THINKER Samyeagar, all of that would be running through my head -as well as the Lust scenario ... I could hold out for so long, but when hope dies... I am going to LIVE and enjoy... As in his own words...He would understand that...and so would I.


As long as I had hope, I'd be fine, and I am one to hold onto hope long after others have given up. And no, you didn't make yourself sound bad at all.


----------



## samyeagar

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I can tell you I don't believe in cheating. I haven't cheated although I've had opportunities. I will NOT tell you that under no circumstances would I cheat but I will tell you that I will consciously avoid putting myself in the situations where I might give in to the temptation. For example, despite their many attempts to get me to do it ... I have refused to *go out of the country alone with 3 supermodels *


Been there and done that, and never gave into the temptation as I was already with one of their friends.


----------



## Another Planet

I am single now and I turn down beautiful women all the time so I know I can do it whilst in a relationship...
...granted they never come on to me but hey it's the thought that counts right?


----------



## catfan

I believe that if a man can get it, he will... no mather what shape, condition etc, he will bang it. It's man's nature to reproduce.


----------



## Singledude21

catfan said:


> I believe that if a man can get it, he will... no mather what shape, condition etc, he will bang it. It's man's nature to reproduce.


Depends on the guy. Sex is the sh%t, but its not worth ruining something over. Just comes down to self control.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

catfan said:


> I believe that if a man can get it, he will... no mather what shape, condition etc, he will bang it. It's man's nature to reproduce.


Wow. Not true. During the course of my marriage I've had several opportunities and haven't taken them up ... and I don't mean potential opportunities, I mean making a decision between going to her room to bang her or not.


----------



## catfan

*Re: Re: "I would never cheat" - TAMM*



Singledude21 said:


> Depends on the guy. Sex is the sh%t, but its not worth ruining something over. Just comes down to self control.


Men and self control hmmmm isn't Mr. P. Down there in charge of that? My BF had a FWB he didn't find attractive (very obese), still he had sex with her for 4 years. Makes me wonder...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

catfan said:


> I believe that if a man can get it, he will... no mather what shape, condition etc, he will bang it. It's man's nature to reproduce.


 So for the men who would say they have no interest in banging just anything that moves cause something is shoved in their face, what do you say....you jump to concluding they must be homosexuals then? 

You think men can't possibly be different than yourself? That's like saying every woman is highly Emotional and Romantic.. they aren't..

Sure 99.9 % of men LOVE LOVE LOVE sex and to get off, no more exhilarating feeling on earth.. (for us women too by the way)...but you leave no room in your belief system for a role of ethics, morality, and just plain being "true" to oneself, let alone if the man has a woman he loves & honors...

I spit on that. You do need to expand your thinking a little wider -even if you have not run in circles with such men, they do exist. The Honorable ones.


----------



## catfan

*Re: Re: "I would never cheat" - TAMM*



SimplyAmorous said:


> So for the men who would say they have no interest in banging just anything that moves cause something is shoved in their face, what do you say....you jump to concluding they must be homosexuals then?
> 
> You think men can't possibly be different than yourself? That's like saying every woman is highly Emotional and Romantic.. they aren't..
> 
> Sure 99.9 % of men LOVE LOVE LOVE sex and to get off, no more exhilarating feeling on earth.. (for us women too by the way)...but you leave no room in your belief system for a role of ethics, morality, and just plain being "true" to oneself, let alone if the man has a woman he loves & honors...
> 
> I spit on that. You do need to expand your thinking a little wider -even if you have not run in circles with such men, they do exist. The Honorable ones.


I've seen them, not towards me though, including my father. To me, men around me seem to be hormone figures, no honor at all. Why, I don't know, other women seem to deserve respect. I give respect as I get it: none by now. I'm not good enough? Same back ...


----------



## catfan

Men can't love, just lust.


----------



## DesertRat1978

I have never cheated. Came very close once but self control kicked in. My wife and I have had issues in the bedroom, to say the least. However, I have not had all that hard of a time resisting because she is wonderful except for her low sex drive.


----------



## doubletrouble

catfan said:


> Men can't love, just lust.


Catfan, your sweeping generalizations are logical fallacies. Why would you want to continue saying such drivel? 

I can guess you've been hurt, offended, aggravated... that you have seen way too many "bad wolves" in your life, and been treated like crap. I'm sorry for that, if it's your history.

But your life doesn't apply to everyone's life. 

I'm a man. I love. And I've been cheated on in every LTR I've been in. Do you see why that might make me bitter against women? But I know that's not everyone's experience, just mine. And it doesn't hold true for everyone else in the world.


----------



## catfan

*Re: Re: "I would never cheat" - TAMM*



doubletrouble said:


> Catfan, your sweeping generalizations are logical fallacies. Why would you want to continue saying such drivel?
> 
> I can guess you've been hurt, offended, aggravated... that you have seen way too many "bad wolves" in your life, and been treated like crap. I'm sorry for that, if it's your history.
> 
> But your life doesn't apply to everyone's life.
> 
> I'm a man. I love. And I've been cheated on in every LTR I've been in. Do you see why that might make me bitter against women? But I know that's not everyone's experience, just mine. And it doesn't hold true for everyone else in the world.


My father left us, every BF cheated or behaved disrespectfully. My current BF hurt me so much with his ex-FWB. I'm damaged.


----------



## catfan

By now I believe a man is a human dominated by his hormones and not able to love.


----------



## doubletrouble

I'm truly sorry for the pain you've experienced, catfan. I do hope someone, somewhere, proves things differently so you can heal from this.


----------



## WyshIknew

catfan said:


> Men and self control hmmmm isn't Mr. P. Down there in charge of that? My BF had a FWB he didn't find attractive (very obese), still he had sex with her for 4 years. Makes me wonder...


I can't always control what my penis does. even at my advanced years (cough cough) I get random erections.

What I can 'control' is myself and what I do with said penis.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

catfan said:


> My father left us, every BF cheated or behaved disrespectfully. My current BF hurt me so much with his ex-FWB. I'm damaged.


Then you should seek counseling. You also need to surround yourself with a different type of person. This perspective that you have is toxic to you.


----------



## WyshIknew

SimplyAmorous said:


> To be very honest...why do I insist on making myself sound bad.... I would be more of a risk for cheating over him... I have FAR LESS patience, I would never put up with a lousy sex life.. my fantasies are vivid, I think I have higher dopamine over him, I could go on & on...he fulfills me so I am Happy....
> 
> But don't put ME on a desert island with a few good looking men without my husband to keep me company... I don't think I would survive that [email protected]#$
> 
> Just keeping it honest...and none of this would surprise HIM...he knows my weaknesses all too well.


Thing is SA, you know yourself.

And as with me you would simply refuse to put yourself in a situation where the temptation would be too much.

I would love to think I would never commit adultery but I can load the dice in my favour by never/rarely putting myself in situations where it became a possibility.


----------



## catfan

My BF and his ex-FWB had an undecent relationship, while he and me were in a long distancd relationship. Before that, I had no posiive relarions with men, including my dad being not there. I have to learn to trust men, and I have no positive experiences. I'm so scared....


----------



## melw74

I really could not give a crap what anybody thinks to be honest or if somebody does not believe that my husband would never cheat on me, because i know he would not....

It really gets on my .... When people assume that all men would cheat given the chance, I find it very insulting.... there are a lot of faithful people out there that do take their marriage very seriously, and would not do anything to jeopardise their lives.... for a one night stand, or an affair.

Why is it that some people find it hard to believe that not ALL people cheat.

My husband loves me, in his eyes i am a supermodel, hes always praising me up, telling me how good i look, how chuffed he is to have me, not all men/ woman feel the need to get things elsewhere I am very happy with the knowledge that my husband is happy, he has no need to cheat on me. Why is it that some find that hard to believe.??

were both faithful to one another.


----------



## catfan

I've got therapy for years. Don't want to steal this post. Thx everyone for trying to help.


----------



## WyshIknew

melw74 said:


> I really could not give a crap what anybody thinks to be honest or if somebody does not believe that my husband would never cheat on me, because i know he would not....
> 
> It really gets on my .... When people assume that all men would cheat given the chance, I find it very insulting.... there are a lot of faithful people out there that do take their marriage very seriously, and would not do anything to jeopardise their lives.... for a one night stand, or an affair.
> 
> Why is it that some people find it hard to believe that not ALL people cheat.
> 
> My husband loves me, in his eyes i am a supermodel, hes always praising me up, telling me how good i look, how chuffed he is to have me, not all men/ woman feel the need to get things elsewhere I am very happy with the knowledge that my husband is happy, he has no need to cheat on me. Why is it that some find that hard to believe.??
> 
> were both faithful to one another.


Unfortunately Melw some men do commit adultery, as do some women.

People aren't always being insulting, sometimes they are just very very hurt.


----------



## melw74

WyshIknew said:


> Unfortunately Melw some men do commit adultery, as do some women.
> 
> People aren't always being insulting, sometimes they are just very very hurt.


Of course, I know that, but all i am saying is that we cant tar everybody with the same brush.

I am not naive, I know that some men/women do cheat, but all i am saying is not all men that had the chance to go with 3 supermodels at once would go for it.... Of course some would, but a am confident that my husband wouldn't.

I mean, I find frank lampard reallyyyyyyy good looking, but if i had the chance to cheat with him i wouldn't, because i love my husband far to much.

I have had offers, but i married for a reason...... I guess i just hate cheaters, I have seen what it has done to people i care about and its left a bitter taste in my mouth.


----------



## WyshIknew

melw74 said:


> Of course, I know that, but all i am saying is that we cant tar everybody with the same brush.
> 
> I am not naive, I know that some men/women do cheat, but all i am saying is not all men that had the chance to go with 3 supermodels at once would go for it.... Of course some would, but a am confident that my husband wouldn't.
> 
> I mean, I find frank lampard reallyyyyyyy good looking, but if i had the chance to cheat with him i wouldn't, because i love my husband far to much.
> 
> I have had offers, but i married for a reason...... I guess i just hate cheaters, I have seen what it has done to people i care about and its left a bitter taste in my mouth.


Frank Lumpalard as he is also known.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

ReformedHubby said:


> There was a hypothetical thread a while ago about a no strings attached BJ from a random woman. The replies on that thread were absurd. Pretty much every man on TAM said they wouldn't do it. It was a stark contrast to what I believe to be true.


You can believe what you want. Unless you have no soul, there are always strings.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## melw74

WyshIknew said:


> Frank Lumpalard as he is also known.


Hes still hot, no matter what else they call him hahahaha.

My hubby likes kelly brook:smthumbup:


----------



## jld

catfan said:


> My BF and his ex-FWB had an undecent relationship, while he and me were in a long distancd relationship. Before that, I had no posiive relarions with men, including my dad being not there. I have to learn to trust men, and I have no positive experiences. I'm so scared....


I am so sorry. I hope you meet a man who really loves you and heals your heart. It really can happen.


----------



## WyshIknew

melw74 said:


> Of course, I know that, but all i am saying is that we cant tar everybody with the same brush.
> 
> I am not naive, I know that some men/women do cheat, but all i am saying is not all men that had the chance to go with 3 supermodels at once would go for it.... Of course some would, but a am confident that my husband wouldn't.
> 
> I mean, I find frank lampard reallyyyyyyy good looking, but if i had the chance to cheat with him i wouldn't, because i love my husband far to much.
> 
> I have had offers, but i married for a reason...... I guess i just hate cheaters, I have seen what it has done to people i care about and its left a bitter taste in my mouth.



Yes, I too have had offers. Rather later in life than earlier but nevertheless offers.

I'm happily married to a woman I love who saw the man I could be rather than what the others saw, a nerd? I dunno.

Their loss her gain.

And I quite like that gap toothed girl from Torchwood.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

WyshIknew said:


> *Thing is SA, you know yourself.
> 
> And as with me you would simply refuse to put yourself in a situation where the temptation would be too much.
> 
> I would love to think I would never commit adultery but I can load the dice in my favour by never/rarely putting myself in situations where it became a possibility.*











Wysh... I started to do a post on this in reply to what JustSomeGuyWho said... but didn't finish .. the truth is.. we are hooked like a Ball & chain...







..(but we don't feel like that face).... very rarely do I go ANYWHERE (enjoyment wise) without Him, or him without me...some may say that is too close for comfort or think we'd get SICK & tired of each other...it's just what we enjoy....So not much room for "out & about " temptation here... 

We even went to the Strip club together for a time...and had a great time...he tagged along to a Candle party once with me, he knew all the ladies, went to see "Magic Mike" with me...

So yeah...we need to know ourselves & what we can handle.. this is wisdom.. I can't have chocolate chips in the house either!


----------



## WyshIknew

SimplyAmorous said:


> Wysh... I started to do a post on this in reply to what JustSomeGuyWho said... but didn't finish .. the truth is.. we are hooked like a Ball & chain...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..(but we don't feel like that face).... very rarely do I go ANYWHERE (enjoyment wise) without Him, or him without me...some may say that is too close for comfort or think we'd get SICK & tired of each other...it's just what we enjoy....So not much room for "out & about " temptation here...
> 
> We even went to the Strip club together for a time...and had a great time...he tagged along to a Candle party once with me, he knew all the ladies, went to see "Magic Mike" with me...
> 
> So yeah...we need to know ourselves & what we can handle.. this is wisdom.. I can't have chocolate chips in the house either!


Yes, we are a bit like that too.

Our kids rather like that we are mushy together, for some reason the MIL hates it and can't resist a dig at me as often as she can.
I go away a bit for work and I ask Mrs Wysh to accompany me as often as we can, she has agreed to come on my next trip.

Neither of us sleeps very well when we are apart, seems strange to some I suppose but it's the way we roll.


----------



## jld

I agree that you never really know what you would do until you're facing temptation, but reading here has to be one of the best deterrents.


----------



## melw74

WyshIknew said:


> Yes, I too have had offers. Rather later in life than earlier but nevertheless offers.
> 
> I'm happily married to a woman I love who saw the man I could be rather than what the others saw, a nerd? I dunno.
> 
> Their loss her gain.
> 
> And I quite like that gap toothed girl from Torchwood.


Nothing wrong with a nerd. I am quite partial to clark kent and peter parker.


----------



## melw74

WyshIknew said:


> Yes, we are a bit like that too.
> 
> Our kids rather like that we are mushy together, for some reason the MIL hates it and can't resist a dig at me as often as she can.
> I go away a bit for work and I ask Mrs Wysh to accompany me as often as we can, she has agreed to come on my next trip.
> 
> Neither of us sleeps very well when we are apart, seems strange to some I suppose but it's the way we roll.


Your exactly like me and my husband. Were very mushy, My children love it. My mum and dad yuck at it.

The only time i have been away from my husband is when i was in labour, and had my babies, and when my son was very ill when he was born, we both hated it.....

I cant sleep without him...... people probably have reached for their buckets right about now, but that is just how we feel.


----------



## sandc

SimplyAmorous said:


> I do not believe my husband would, you'd just have to know the man... He was far more patient than I would have been -when he wasn't getting enough sex... Heck I would have raised the roof off the house in comparison... He waited yrs for intercourse while dating... I think it's safe to say...he is simply not the type...he never had a desire to have sex with someone he was not in love with, it's not a part of who he is or how he conducts himself...
> 
> I really do trust him with my life, our family...he is a man of his word...
> 
> Now if he wasn't getting ANYTHING at home (never going to happen), she was a Beauty, she came on to him...pulled him upstairs, maybe hes a little drunk (he doesn't do bars)...but then he is paranoid about STD's, this is what runs through his mind when he looks at Hot women... thinking ...."STD's, I love my wife, STD's, I love my kids" and the fantasy is over... but if he was half raped, he might give in...
> 
> Hardly worried about these things ...I don't think my husband is the norm by any means ....


Hmm.... forget the Italian models, please let me be stranded on an island with SA. The war of wits, the thrust and parry of wills, oh how delicious.


----------



## sandc

SimplyAmorous said:


> Wysh... I started to do a post on this in reply to what JustSomeGuyWho said... but didn't finish .. the truth is.. we are hooked like a Ball & chain...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..(but we don't feel like that face).... very rarely do I go ANYWHERE (enjoyment wise) without Him, or him without me...some may say that is too close for comfort or think we'd get SICK & tired of each other...it's just what we enjoy....So not much room for "out & about " temptation here...
> 
> We even went to the Strip club together for a time...and had a great time...he tagged along to a Candle party once with me, he knew all the ladies, went to see "Magic Mike" with me...
> 
> So yeah...we need to know ourselves & what we can handle.. this is wisdom.. I can't have chocolate chips in the house either!



My dear, don't ever get stuck on a desert island with me.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

WyshIknew said:


> *Neither of us sleeps very well when we are apart, seems strange to some I suppose but it's the way we roll.*


 My husband sleeps like a ROCK when I am here... always conks out before me too, irritates me at times..... but boy if I am out with friends... like when we went to see the Chippendales...







, he can't sleep till I walk through that door...it's sweet really. .... Not strange to us...we roll the same ! 

You had better delete those last posts SandC...oh goodness. 



> *melw74 said:* *Nothing wrong with a nerd. I am quite partial to clark kent and peter parker.*


I've always been partial to the Book worm Geeks myself... 

We saw a movie the other day, the guy came off as this lanky red haired Nerd....about a time machine, heck I thought he was absolutely adorable..(and he was British - OH MY!).... he sucked with women... found his date in the dark , do they really have eating establishments like that -you can't see anything ...they guide you in pitch blackness... then you can meet afterwards... thought that was kinda cool... he spilled wine in her eye .... ha ha .... but ya know.. he had a kicking sex drive, he was kind ,Gentlemanly ... made a wonderful Father ...and so faithful..

I really don't understand why women turn their noses to these sort of men, they are intelligent, sensitive , they can do more than throw a stupid football around (I never liked Jocks) & they are more geared the "1 woman" type ....They are the bomb to me!


----------



## WyshIknew

I sleep best after nookie. Mrs Wysh calls it my 'sleeping draught'


----------



## sandc

Sorry SA. I guess familiarity breeds foot in mouth disease? In actuality if we were marooned on a desert island together we'd probably argue and/or debate Scripture until we were rescued. 

The thread had moved into the theoretical so...

In reality, I don't think I'd cheat. I go away on business trips and don't cheat. But then I don't put myself into situations which would tempt me. Even when I was at Burning Man and had ample opportunity, I knew I had much better waiting for me at home. That is the simple TRUTH for me.


----------



## jld

SimplyAmorous said:


> but ya know.. he had a kicking sex drive, he was kind ,Gentlemanly ... made a wonderful Father ...and so faithful..
> 
> *Sounds like your dh!*
> 
> I really don't understand why women turn their noses to these sort of men, they are intelligent, sensitive , they can do more than throw a stupid football around (I never liked Jocks) & they are more geared the "1 woman" type ....They are the bomb to me!


*Yep, they are gems.*


----------



## heartsbeating

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I can tell you I don't believe in cheating. I haven't cheated although I've had opportunities. I will NOT tell you that under no circumstances would I cheat but I will tell you that I will consciously avoid putting myself in the situations where I might give in to the temptation. For example, despite their many attempts to get me to do it ... I have refused to go out of the country alone with 3 supermodels


I do think it's about knowing yourself and your own boundaries - men and women. Although I wouldn't anticipate this happening in our marriage, I think all we can do is recognize the needs we both have and deal with our sh!t as a couple, and know the boundaries we may need for ourselves and our marriage. In the past, hubs has been propositioned. He rarely drinks (not for this reason), and recognizes even more so now, the scenarios to avoid that might be less than ideal for our marriage. 


When hubs and I were on the verge of make or break, I went out with a girlfriend. She took me to this cool/grungy bar that she knew I'd love. It was only meant to be a quick drink but I was feeling quite low and we ended up parking ourselves there, with the company of wine, the whole night. Being an old (in my 30s), married woman, it was the first time in a long time, I'd been to that type of bar late with a friend. Usually we'd go to a quiet wine bar or to dinner. I wasn't great company that night. She still had a good time though. She was single and had been eying the bar tender. As the night rolled on, a few guys approached us and she was chatting with them. I was disinterested. The bar tender noticed this. He came over a couple of times to ward off the guys approaching. He straight up offered to take me home and put a smile back on my face. I told him no, married etc. Friend whispered to me (in respect to my marriage) "Don't even go there." Thing is, despite his cute Canadian self, I wasn't the slightest bit tempted. If anything, I remember feeling further saddened of where hubs and I were at. No doubt his bar tender approach had worked in his favor before. He told me where he'd be working over the coming months as he wanted to see me again. I declined, told him it wouldn't happen. Unknowingly, another friend suggested we visit that restaurant/bar and I offered an alternative instead. While the feeling of temptation wasn't there, I felt it best to avoid nonetheless. 

I wouldn't normally be in a scenario to be propositioned that way.


----------



## heartsbeating

SimplyAmorous said:


> So yeah...we need to know ourselves & what we can handle.. this is wisdom.. I can't have chocolate chips in the house either!


Canadian bar tenders I can resist... chocolate chips on the other hand, I don't stand a chance!


----------



## heartsbeating

SimplyAmorous said:


> I've always been partial to the Book worm Geeks myself...
> 
> We saw a movie the other day, the guy came off as this lanky red haired Nerd....about a time machine, heck I thought he was absolutely adorable..(and he was British - OH MY!).... he sucked with women... found his date in the dark , do they really have eating establishments like that -you can't see anything ...they guide you in pitch blackness... then you can meet afterwards... thought that was kinda cool... he spilled wine in her eye .... ha ha .... but ya know.. he had a kicking sex drive, he was kind ,Gentlemanly ... made a wonderful Father ...and so faithful..
> 
> I really don't understand why women turn their noses to these sort of men, they are intelligent, sensitive , they can do more than throw a stupid football around (I never liked Jocks) & they are more geared the "1 woman" type ....They are the bomb to me!


I know the movie you're talking about... friend took me to see it. I was reeled in because of the time travel idea lol. 

One of my closest friends referred to my husband as a bit of a geek. Which, I love. She was surprised by this; she'd pictured me with a bulky football player type.... say whah?!


----------



## 12345Person

I don't like nerds/geeks.

*runs for hills*


----------



## Anon Pink

Sandfly said:


> If you set up some extreme hypothetical circumstances, then you'll find people change pretty quickly, so the question is flawed in a sense.
> 
> If I was shipwrecked on an island, me, three women of any variety... and another bloke.
> 
> The bloke would be dead within a few hours, I'd smash his brains out while he was sat there picking his nose asking me what we should do next. I would loudly proclaim all the women as property, rip off my shirt, beat my chest and shake a tree.
> 
> I would have the women weaving baskets and building a tent while I went off to find things to kill for dinner. I would have one of the women be noticeably disadvantaged - confiscate her shoes and criticize and tear up her baskets, while praising the others. The three of us would eat the meat and she would get the skin and some of the offal. In this way, the other two would be too distracted by their irrational hate for her to turn on me.
> 
> BTW I would have to make you the disadvantaged person AP, because it looks like you'd be trouble otherwise.
> 
> While I slept I would tie one of each woman's legs to a tree, far away from any rocks they could brain me with.
> 
> Eventually I would have to pretend that God was speaking through me, and introduce drugs, music and dancing into our society to control their minds.
> 
> So... I guess it really depends on the circumstances. I wouldn't do any of this if it was just a business trip.


Well, I feel better knowing you've reasoned it all out. But the women would band together against you pretty damn quickly. Under my tuteledge, we'd keep you happy, docile and complaint so you could go kill good stuff to eat, then follow orders like a good boy. 

Unless it was a business trip...:rofl:


----------



## Sandfly

Anon Pink said:


> Well, I feel better knowing you've reasoned it all out. But the women would band together against you pretty damn quickly. Under my tuteledge, we'd keep you happy, docile and complaint so you could go kill good stuff to eat, then follow orders like a good boy.
> 
> Unless it was a business trip...:rofl:


Tee hee! 

Matriarchy is common among the most primitive tribes, so this is how such a situation would naturally develop, _exactly _as you describe it. Sharing, matriarchy and nature-worship are the natural pre-ideological order. 

But we don't want that !!

When you introduce property and move from animism to deism, you create the conditions for patriarchy (Engels).

So... I got rid of the competition before he'd time to become your _tool_ ! - Check!

Then... I create an underclass - it doesn't matter who - it only has to make the women 'above' feel superior... they'll join in the sadism instead of helping the oppressed - this is the Hen-pecker instinct...  Checkmate!! I am the rooster!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

melw74 said:


> *Your exactly like me and my husband. Were very mushy, My children love it. My mum and dad yuck at it.
> 
> The only time i have been away from my husband is when i was in labour, and had my babies, and when my son was very ill when he was born, we both hated it.....
> 
> I cant sleep without him...... people probably have reached for their buckets right about now, but that is just how we feel.*


No buckets here... I think it's GREAT.....We can be a mush fest too...one of our guy friends will stick his hands down his throat, make gurgling sounds -acting like he is throwing up just to describe us... but really, we don't act like THAT in front of him.. never! ...he just knows HOW we are.. that we watch Sappy movies together & are sensitive Romantics to the hilt.... 



> *Anonymous Person said* *:I don't like nerds/geeks.
> 
> *runs for hills**


 Rest assured...You are in the majority of women who prefer ALPHA males....I am a little weird.... but I gotta admit, I am darn happy I am weird...less women are clawing after my type, this is good!

My Mother & a good friend of mine (she is a blonde beauty)... has both told me... my husband is NOT their type, they love him , think he is wonderful....but are not attracted to men like him -saying he is *too nice*..... and boy oh boy oh boy... have both of them had a hell of a time with men...their stories, falling for the Ego driven Bad boy.... very very ...They've been abused, used, manipulated, cheated on, Hormone driven Lust mongers that trips their triggers.....her son's Father was such an A-hole, after the divorce she went to the trouble changing back to her maiden name only to fall for him AGAIN...and cheated on AGAIN.... she has been so emotionally scarred by this Joker....who loves 'em & destroys them...she has no trust in men at all.. it's been a Hell ride for her current Boyfriend (I almost feel bad for him dealing with her baggage)... my Mother, she has never believed in love again after the type of men she fell for. 

No, not for me... I'll take my sweet lovin' geek who has "White knight" syndrome any day of the week. He was more of a Nerd in high school, Mine has picked up some Alpha along the way, he is a master mechanic & works with his hands....so this helps him out some...I'm more the book Nerd.









Nothing wrong with Alpha.. if a man is honorable... I tend to think in today's society, these are not so easy to find though....so many seem associated with Playboys....some never settle down, nor care too...not into trying to break a Wild Horse...just so we can raise a family. 

Excuse my thoughts... it's best to find a man balanced... a little geek, a little Romance, enough Alpha / Lover boy that he can STIR you ... but yet enough Beta to be faithful ...and stick by you. 



> *Sandc said*: Sorry SA. I guess familiarity breeds foot in mouth disease? *In actuality if we were marooned on a desert island together we'd probably argue and/or debate Scripture until we were rescued.*


 Love this, you have no idea just how LIKELY THIS WOULD HAPPEN... when I get to talking religion... with another who* likes *to talk religion... let the entertainment begin...... I miss my sons's College roommate, every time we visited... we'd jump into some theological debate ... Calvinism....the Trinity..original sin doctrine... we'd discuss what books he was reading... St Agustine... Ethics/morality, Sex, relationships..(husband was right there, so was son in these debates). ...we talked about it all...He moved on now.. I'll never forget that one...He was a writer.... I look to buy one of his books someday. 



> *In reality, I don't think I'd cheat. I go away on business trips and don't cheat. But then I don't put myself into situations which would tempt me. Even when I was at Burning Man and had ample opportunity, I knew I had much better waiting for me at home. That is the simple TRUTH for me*.


:smthumbup: Given your story & as strongly you feel about Sex and it's meaning .. I so believe you ! It also keeps ME where I am... trusted and true.. husband just knows he better not loose his enthusiasm... or I am not going to be a happy camper! Once I asked him if I was a burden & he said "Sex a burden , are you crazy woman!"... I was REALLY pushing his limits at the time...that response will live on in me...so I don't see that happening any time soon.


----------



## WyshIknew

Anonymous Person said:


> I don't like nerds/geeks.
> 
> *runs for hills*


Well you do realise that the geek will inherit the earth?


----------



## Gomerpyle

samyeagar said:


> And notice it's the women on this thread about MEN cheating, who are taking it down the road it has gone...The guys aren't the ones naming manes and putting up the pics of the hot chicks they'd cheat on their wives with...


Pretty interesting observation. I also don't buy that the lust is for just one movie star or just one pro athlete. There are countless close substitutes in every town across the country, so it is just more confirmation the majority would cheat in the right circumstances. 




samyeagar said:


> Of course, being in a sexless, affectionless marriage feels a lot like being stuck on that deserted island, and all you have to do is look around to see you are surrounded by beautiful, available people...


Exactly. The thing a lot of people are craving is not the sex, but validation, empathy, companionship...

Extramarital sex without any of that is pretty ho-hum. Look at the coping with infidelity page and listen to the text messages these affair partners are sending and that kind of connection is pretty obvious. It isn't like a five minute sperm dump with a prostitute you never see again.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Gomerpyle said:


> Exactly so. The thing a lot of people are craving is not the sex, but validation, empathy, companionship...
> 
> Extramarital sex without any of that is pretty ho-hum. Look at the coping with infidelity page and listen to the text messages these affair partners are sending and that kind of connection is pretty obvious. It isn't like a five minute sperm dump with a prostitute you never see again.


Validation, Empathy, Companionship....








We all lust for that deep connection with another person who "get us"... and deeply.. acceptance... when this is missing at home...for ANY REASON.. hearts can go astray.. 

This was a post I did the other day when someone asked... 



> jld said:
> 
> 
> 
> *With more technology available, is it just easier to cheat?*
> 
> 
> 
> Much easier to cheat, it IS at our fingertips today.. if one is married -decides they want some cake on the side...there are plenty of sites for cheating spouses.. you can C0*k shop on Craig's list... talk about dangerous.... I've read posts where people meet up on gaming sites, who needs a dating /shopping for sex site......
> 
> Face booking old flames, all it takes is a little curiosity, some boredom at home/ too much rejection in the bedroom... a private message to fish for a hook... Boundaries.. ever so important unless we want to keep our spouses on a leash.... I wouldn't live like that...but I can DO transparency easy....
> 
> I have found this to BE the most thorough write up on how the Dopamine can Kick in when our hearts go astray....it's like a DRUG *>> *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21172-never-say-never.html
> 
> .... the only remedy for this, in my opinion, (as can I say, even for myself.. I am NOT immune)....We have a beautiful marriage but I would never be as foolish as to say "Oh that could never happen to me" ...I feel keeping the love alive, the resentment out, the enthusiasm / continued emotional sharing is vital to a fulfilling marriage... to not leave little cracks open for another to STIR us away from our spouses.... That thread was written by a husband who was cheated on....in trying to make sense of how this happened to his wife who was one who said "I would never cheat".
Click to expand...


----------



## melw74

Hey, Please Stop knocking the nerds on this thread.


----------



## samyeagar

melw74 said:


> Hey, Please Stop knocking the nerds on this thread.


Thank you  And I also appreciate how you can say someone else is good looking without following up, even jokingly, about all the things you would do with him, want him to do with you if you ever got the chance. To me, the only difference between saying things like that about a celeb or the bagger or waitress is a matter of degree. Both are telling your spouse you'd cheat on them, just one is more likely to hapen than the other.

Hell, I think it goes even deeper than that. If you were walking down the street in a completely strange city you would never be going back to and saw someone hot and said to your spouse that you'd totally do that person, it would be at least as unlikely to happen as any celeb. Even less likely I suspect. Would that be as acceptible as saying it about a celeb?


----------



## WyshIknew

melw74 said:


> Hey, Please Stop knocking the nerds on this thread.


Nah.

Nerds are fair game as far as I'm concerned.

Just lay off the techie geeks ok?


----------



## samyeagar

WyshIknew said:


> Nah.
> 
> Nerds are fair game as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Just lay off the techie geeks ok?


I'm both, but I hide it well


----------



## Anon Pink

samyeagar said:


> Thank you  And I also appreciate how you can say someone else is good looking without following up, even jokingly, about all the things you would do with him, want him to do with you if you ever got the chance. *To me, the only difference between saying things like that about a celeb or the bagger or waitress is a matter of degree. Both are telling your spouse you'd cheat on them, just one is more likely to hapen than the other.*
> 
> Hell, I think it goes even deeper than that. If you were walking down the street in a completely strange city you would never be going back to and saw someone hot and said to your spouse that you'd totally do that person, it would be at least as unlikely to happen as any celeb. Even less likely I suspect. Would that be as acceptible as saying it about a celeb?


Yes, a matter of degrees. Like the difference of degrees between freezing and boiling. Not saying it couldn't happen, anything can happen. It's just so HIGHLY unlikely that completely discounting it as a possibility isn't a stretch.

However, I agree with your point, as I understand it. I don't want to hear about the Victoria' Secret models he would bang if they happened to knock on his door, and he doesn't want to hear about me and George. But these are just harmless little fantasies; meaningless.

We can ascribe all sorts of character traits and ability to love to anyone, but the truth is often far from the fantasy, dontchya think?


----------



## samyeagar

Anon Pink said:


> Yes, a matter of degrees. Like the difference of degrees between freezing and boiling. Not saying it couldn't happen, anything can happen. It's just so HIGHLY unlikely that completely discounting it as a possibility isn't a stretch.
> 
> However, I agree with your point, as I understand it. I don't want to hear about the Victoria' Secret models he would bang if they happened to knock on his door, and he doesn't want to hear about me and George. But these are just harmless little fantasies; meaningless.
> 
> *We can ascribe all sorts of character traits and ability to love to anyone, but the truth is often far from the fantasy, dontchya think*?


People do that all the time. That thought proces is the basis for the whole "grass is greener" thing, and we see where that leads...

I think the thing that makes the whole celeb thing seem safer than just the average person on the street is not so much never in a million years would it happen, as the likeliness of the celeb themselves rejecting the person.

I know there are a lot of people who feel differently than I do, and fantasy is perfectly fine with me, but I don't want to hear about them unless they are about me.


----------



## southbound

sandc said:


> In reality, I don't think I'd cheat. I go away on business trips and don't cheat. But then I don't put myself into situations which would tempt me. Even when I was at Burning Man and had ample opportunity, I knew I had much better waiting for me at home. That is the simple TRUTH for me.


I agree. I think it's all about knowing yourself. I think it's sad that the examples some people have been around lead them to believe everyone would cheat if given the right opportunity. 

Just like robbing a bank and murdering someone is not on my list of acceptable things in life, neither is cheating. 

As you stated, it is also about not putting yourself in those situations. I'm 45, and I can't say that I've ever been in any dangerous situations. I think it takes effort to get into those situations


----------



## sandc

SimplyAmorous said:


> Love this, you have no idea just how LIKELY THIS WOULD HAPPEN... when I get to talking religion... with another who* likes *to talk religion... let the entertainment begin...... I miss my sons's College roommate, every time we visited... we'd jump into some theological debate ... Calvinism....the Trinity..original sin doctrine... we'd discuss what books he was reading... St Agustine... Ethics/morality, Sex, relationships..(husband was right there, so was son in these debates). ...we talked about it all...He moved on now.. I'll never forget that one...He was a writer.... I look to buy one of his books someday.


We would have fun then. I'm reformed in thought (Calvinist.) And in the end you'd hate me, because I would convince you I was right. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> :smthumbup: Given your story & as strongly you feel about Sex and it's meaning .. I so believe you ! It also keeps ME where I am... trusted and true.. husband just knows he better not loose his enthusiasm... or I am not going to be a happy camper! Once I asked him if I was a burden & he said "Sex a burden , are you crazy woman!"... I was REALLY pushing his limits at the time...that response will live on in me...so I don't see that happening any time soon.


No, in reality I'm a one-woman man. Really just a more aggressive version of your H. I love my wife dearly and you KNOW that. But this whole thread is theoretical in nature isn't it? Give me a little fantasy and I will RUN with it! The thought of two highly-devoted yet highly sexual people being stuck on an island together was just too delicious not to contemplate. Think what a move that would make! The sexual tension as both try to control their most base instincts and remain faithful to their respective spouses... Movies with lots of sexual tension in them are pure porn for Caramel. 

Besides, I do so love making you blush. 

Ain't I a stinker?


----------



## Sandfly

southbound said:


> As you stated, it is also about not putting yourself in those situations. I'm 45, and I can't say that I've ever been in any dangerous situations. *I think it takes effort to get into those situations*


I'm not in my prime any more, but when a fella is _on_ _fire_, then temptation seeks him out. I've been stalked by four different women in my life. Meaning scary-stalking, to wit:




Nowadays, I wouldn't mind a stalker  Boo hoo hoo !


----------



## always_alone

Anon Pink said:


> However, I agree with your point, as I understand it. I don't want to hear about the Victoria' Secret models he would bang if they happened to knock on his door, and he doesn't want to hear about me and George. But these are just harmless little fantasies; meaningless.


I'm less inclined to think that fantasy is harmless or meaningless. Fantasizing about cheating is definitely not the same as actually cheating, but I think it says something about where the heart is at.

It broke my heart to learn that my SO wants others, and my natural inclination is to pull away and look for others for me to want. Why should I continue to invest wholly in him, if he can't even begin to do the same for me?

Not sure where this will take us, but I doubt it'll be good.


----------



## melw74

samyeagar said:


> Thank you  And I also appreciate how you can say someone else is good looking without following up, even jokingly, about all the things you would do with him, want him to do with you if you ever got the chance. To me, the only difference between saying things like that about a celeb or the bagger or waitress is a matter of degree. Both are telling your spouse you'd cheat on them, just one is more likely to hapen than the other.
> 
> Hell, I think it goes even deeper than that. If you were walking down the street in a completely strange city you would never be going back to and saw someone hot and said to your spouse that you'd totally do that person, it would be at least as unlikely to happen as any celeb. Even less likely I suspect. Would that be as acceptible as saying it about a celeb?


There are a lot of good looking people walking around this planet, and unless we walk around with a blindfold on were bound to notice the opposite sex, but for me this is as far as it goes for me..... I could say somebody was attractive, but if i was to start going on, Like you say about what i want to do with them i know it would piss my husband off...... Because if given the chance, like i said with frank lampard, I still would have no intention of cheating with him because i love my husband to much....

Like i have said i have had offers from some good looking guys, but i tell them i am married and that is that.

I am sure like i have said that they're lots of women out there that my husband finds attractive, Kelly brook...... I am not naive, I know that there is attractive women out that could turn my husbands head..... But it is me he goes home with and is married to, Of course its less likely to happen with a celeb and more likely to happen if its a waitress that your husband thinks is pretty, but its trust isn't it???.

Its Okay to think that somebody else is attractive, celeb or not.

I think a person knows what is acceptable behaviour, and what is not......

If your just talking to someone, or if your flirty talking with someone etc, if your playing up to them, giving them signals your available, touching them when you speak to them......

Saying another sex is attractive tho, Is normal.


----------



## sandc

southbound said:


> I agree. I think it's all about knowing yourself. I think it's sad that the examples some people have been around lead them to believe everyone would cheat if given the right opportunity.
> 
> Just like robbing a bank and murdering someone is not on my list of acceptable things in life, neither is cheating.
> 
> As you stated, it is also about not putting yourself in those situations. I'm 45, and I can't say that I've ever been in any dangerous situations. I think it takes effort to get into those situations


Absolutely. :iagree:

But in reality God has protected me by creating me short and um... cuddly.  So that has probably kept most women from coming after me. I can honestly tell you that in my life, I have only been in one truly "dangerous" situation. A woman at work was pursuing me and making it clear she would like to have an affair. She flirted with me all the time. I'm a big flirt and never mean anything by it so I flirted back. Then she rubbed her breasts against me one day as I was fixing her computer.  Apparently she was a bit of a geek and was impressed by really geeky men.

I would be lying to you if I said I wasn't tempted. But what did I do? I excused myself and avoided her after that. I told my wife what happened. I told HR (just in case she one day wanted to accuse ME of sexual harassment). I told my pastor and another elder at church. I made sure I had accountability so that even if I wanted to, I wouldn't be able to.

Over reaction? Maybe. But Caramel means that much to me. No one else is going to make me sandwiches, wash my underwear, respond to all my lame "moves", and have amazing sex with me. :smthumbup:


----------



## sandc

always_alone said:


> I'm less inclined to think that fantasy is harmless or meaningless. Fantasizing about cheating is definitely not the same as actually cheating, but I think it says something about where the heart is at.
> 
> It broke my heart to learn that my SO wants others, and my natural inclination is to pull away and look for others for me to want. Why should I continue to invest wholly in him, if he can't even begin to do the same for me?
> 
> Not sure where this will take us, but I doubt it'll be good.


I imagine driving really fast race cars would be fun too, but I would never really want to drive one. And while BOTH my wife and I will fantasize about sex with other people from time to time, it doesn't mean we REALLY want to have sex with them.

Is this the case with your H, is it just a fantasy or is he obsessing about sex with other women? There is a huge difference.


----------



## samyeagar

sandc said:


> I imagine driving really fast race cars would be fun too, but I would never really want to drive one. And while BOTH my wife and I will fantasize about sex with other people from time to time, it doesn't mean we REALLY want to have sex with them.
> 
> Is this the case with your H, is it just a fantasy or is he obsessing about sex with other women? There is a huge difference.


See this is one of those strange things about me. I can see gorgeous, sexy women, recognize them as such, and have no desire to have sex with them, or even fantasize about it. Ten seconds later, they are gone from my mind.

There have been three women I have seen in my life that I have immediately thought "I want her", and I've had all three of them. I've had plenty of other relationships were we have done everything but, and I have had women break up with me because I wouldn't sleep with them. I know I am wired a bit differently in this regard, and so have a difficult time understanding where others come from in this regard.

I do however stand by my thoughts that compartimentalizing celebs as safe, therefore it is a free pass to talk about cheating on your spouse with them is no different than doing the same about the bagger or waitress.


----------



## always_alone

sandc said:


> Is this the case with your H, is it just a fantasy or is he obsessing about sex with other women? There is a huge difference.


Who knows. I'm not privy to the inner workings of his mind.

I can tell you about mine, though. And if I were to say I was tempted, then I was genuinely tempted. 

I haven't been because I keep (kept?) my fantasy life in check.

Don't get me wrong. I love a good story, and making stuff up is fun, especially if you can share it, and know that it's just a story. 

But fantasy is often so much more than that, as it taps into deep- seated desires and needs.


----------



## always_alone

samyeagar said:


> I do however stand by my thoughts that compartimentalizing celebs as safe, therefore it is a free pass to talk about cheating on your spouse with them is no different than doing the same about the bagger or waitress.


:iagree:

Same same.


----------



## Anon Pink

In my fantasies with George, I am my age but with the body of my 27 year old self... So yeah...not gonna happen. 

I alway wonder if men fantasize with their younger bodies or the present, tad softer bodies? Cause most women that I know all say they are about 25 in their fantasies.


----------



## Coffee Amore

samyeagar said:


> I do however stand by my thoughts that compartmentalizing celebs as safe, therefore it is a free pass to talk about cheating on your spouse with them is no different than doing the same about the bagger or waitress.


I disagree.

It's about playfulness in a relationship. For us it's about lighthearted fun, joking and not taking everything as a sign of whether someone is truly committed to the relationship. I think it would be so sad to be in a relationship where people have to walk on eggshells around each other because the other interprets everything as a verdict on the state of the marriage.

For my husband and me, joking about which celebrities we find attractive is no different than when we ask "what would you do if you won the lottery?" I'd talk about quitting my job, buying a dream home in a far away location I like, starting a non-profit I've always wanted to start. He'd tell me his plans. One of them would be to tell off his boss in a really spectacular way then walk off knowing nothing could be done by the management since we'd be so filthy rich. 

None of it is real. It's a "what if" scenario. Talking about celebrities is also a "what if" scenario. If my marriage can't handle a simple "what if" scenario because someone's ego is threatened, it's a pretty fragile relationship and there are deeper insecurities. I'm glad my husband has more confidence in us and our relationship. I'm not in a fragile marriage. I have more than 20 years with this man. He knows me and I know him. These kinds of conversations are nothing compared to what we've gone through together as a couple. I think my marriage is stronger because we both can open up to each other, joke around and not be serious all the time. Humor and playfulness go along way in making my marriage to Mr. Coffee Amore.


----------



## sandc

*Re: Re: "I would never cheat" - TAMM*



Coffee Amore said:


> I disagree.
> 
> It's about playfulness in a relationship. For us it's about lighthearted fun, joking and not taking everything as a sign of whether someone is truly committed to the relationship. I think it would be so sad to be in a relationship where people have to walk on eggshells around each other because the other interprets everything as a verdict on the state of the marriage.
> 
> For my husband and me, joking about which celebrities we find attractive is no different than when we ask "what would you do if you won the lottery?" I'd talk about quitting my job, buying a dream home in a far away location I like, starting a non-profit I've always wanted to start. He'd tell me his plans. One of them would be to tell off his boss in a really spectacular way then walk off knowing nothing could be done by the management since we'd be so filthy rich.
> 
> None of it is real. It's a "what if" scenario. Talking about celebrities is also a "what if" scenario. If my marriage can't handle a simple "what if" scenario because someone's ego is threatened, it's a pretty fragile relationship and there are deeper insecurities. I'm glad my husband has more confidence in us and our relationship. I'm not in a fragile marriage. I have more than 20 years with this man. He knows me and I know him. These kinds of conversations are nothing compared to what we've gone through together as a couple. I think my marriage is stronger because we both can open up to each other, joke around and not be serious all the time. Humor and playfulness go along way in making my marriage to Mr. Coffee Amore.


Bingo, Coffee! It's just fun. That's all.


----------



## 12345Person

Coffee Amore said:


> I disagree.
> 
> It's about playfulness in a relationship. For us it's about lighthearted fun, joking and not taking everything as a sign of whether someone is truly committed to the relationship. I think it would be so sad to be in a relationship where people have to walk on eggshells around each other because the other interprets everything as a verdict on the state of the marriage.
> 
> For my husband and me, joking about which celebrities we find attractive is no different than when we ask "what would you do if you won the lottery?" I'd talk about quitting my job, buying a dream home in a far away location I like, starting a non-profit I've always wanted to start. He'd tell me his plans. One of them would be to tell off his boss in a really spectacular way then walk off knowing nothing could be done by the management since we'd be so filthy rich.
> 
> None of it is real. It's a "what if" scenario. Talking about celebrities is also a "what if" scenario. If my marriage can't handle a simple "what if" scenario because someone's ego is threatened, it's a pretty fragile relationship and there are deeper insecurities. I'm glad my husband has more confidence in us and our relationship. I'm not in a fragile marriage. I have more than 20 years with this man. He knows me and I know him. These kinds of conversations are nothing compared to what we've gone through together as a couple. I think my marriage is stronger because we both can open up to each other, joke around and not be serious all the time. Humor and playfulness go along way in making my marriage to Mr. Coffee Amore.


I think what samyeager is saying, is that if the scenario was possible, are the posters being serious when they say they would take it?


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

sandc said:


> always_alone said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm less inclined to think that fantasy is harmless or meaningless. Fantasizing about cheating is definitely not the same as actually cheating, but I think it says something about where the heart is at.
> 
> It broke my heart to learn that my SO wants others, and my natural inclination is to pull away and look for others for me to want. Why should I continue to invest wholly in him, if he can't even begin to do the same for me?
> 
> Not sure where this will take us, but I doubt it'll be good.
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine driving really fast race cars would be fun too, but I would never really want to drive one. And while BOTH my wife and I will fantasize about sex with other people from time to time, it doesn't mean we REALLY want to have sex with them.
> 
> Is this the case with your H, is it just a fantasy or is he obsessing about sex with other women? There is a huge difference.
Click to expand...

Oh come on ... if you were at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and one of the drivers offered to let you take one of the cars around the track, you telling me you'd turn it down?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## samyeagar

Coffee Amore said:


> I disagree.
> 
> It's about playfulness in a relationship. For us it's about lighthearted fun, joking and not taking everything as a sign of whether someone is truly committed to the relationship. I think it would be so sad to be in a relationship where people have to walk on eggshells around each other because the other interprets everything as a verdict on the state of the marriage.
> 
> *For my husband and me, joking about which celebrities we find attractive is no different than when we ask "what would you do if you won the lottery?"* I'd talk about quitting my job, buying a dream home in a far away location I like, starting a non-profit I've always wanted to start. He'd tell me his plans. One of them would be to tell off his boss in a really spectacular way then walk off knowing nothing could be done by the management since we'd be so filthy rich.
> 
> None of it is real. It's a "what if" scenario. Talking about celebrities is also a "what if" scenario. If my marriage can't handle a simple "what if" scenario because someone's ego is threatened, it's a pretty fragile relationship and there are deeper insecurities. I'm glad my husband has more confidence in us and our relationship. I'm not in a fragile marriage. I have more than 20 years with this man. He knows me and I know him. These kinds of conversations are nothing compared to what we've gone through together as a couple. I think my marriage is stronger because we both can open up to each other, joke around and not be serious all the time. Humor and playfulness go along way in making my marriage to Mr. Coffee Amore.


But acknoweldging they are attractive is different than saying you'd do them if you had the chance. Of course I am not blind. I notice beautiful women all over the place as does my STBW notice men, and we both know what the other finds attractive. Sure, it's fun to play "what if", especially with the lottery, but I'll tell you, if I did actually win, I'd damn straight do the things I fantasized and talked about

Again, I go back to the waitress and the celeb. If the only difference is because one is perceived as being impossible, and the other possible, then that is only a matter of degree, and the sentiment is the same. Would it be alright to go see every movie an actress is in and talk about wanting to bang her? What about going to the restaurant a couple of times a week and talking about wanting to bang the waitress? What if Kate Moss came banging on my door as opposed to the lady three doors down? Why would I even want to joke about it just because one is unlikely to happen?


----------



## jld

When I was in college, my friend and I made some jokes about drug use. We did not mean it, we were just in a joking mood, and for some reason that was the subject. I honestly do not even remember what we said.

Well, a few days later we got a letter from a friend who had heard us laughing and joking, and boy was she upset. Unbeknown to us, her sister had nearly ruined her life with drugs. Our friend, much younger than her sister, was basically traumatized by her sister's addiction and all the problems it caused in their family. Our joking that one afternoon triggered some bad memories in her.

We apologized immediately. We did not realize how sensitive someone who has experienced something so hurtful could be, and honestly, we did not realize how harmful drug use could be. We had not experienced it ourselves.

It sounds like samyeagar has some serious sensitivity to this issue. Even joking about it may be a trigger for him. I think maybe he is just trying to communicate this to us.


----------



## Coffee Amore

samyeagar said:


> But acknoweldging they are attractive is different than saying you'd do them if you had the chance. Of course I am not blind. I notice beautiful women all over the place as does my STBW notice men, and we both know what the other finds attractive. Sure, it's fun to play "what if", especially with the lottery, but I'll tell you, if I did actually win, I'd damn straight do the things I fantasized and talked about
> 
> Again, I go back to the waitress and the celeb. If the only difference is because one is perceived as being impossible, and the other possible, then that is only a matter of degree, and the sentiment is the same. Would it be alright to go see every movie an actress is in and talk about wanting to bang her? What about going to the restaurant a couple of times a week and talking about wanting to bang the waitress? What if Kate Moss came banging on my door as opposed to the lady three doors down? Why would I even want to joke about it just because one is unlikely to happen?


We'll have to disagree. If you can't see my point, I'm not going to go over it again. My husband and I are good with our marriage and how we deal with each other. That's ultimately what's important. 

This is obviously a trigger issue for you.


----------



## Maricha75

jld said:


> It sounds like samyeagar has some serious sensitivity to this issue. Even joking about it may be a trigger for him. I think maybe he is just trying to communicate this to us.


Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't a trigger from having experienced it in the past. I know that not everyone who feels the way he does HAS experienced it. Some see emotional infidelity as different as physical. Some see it the same/equal. For us, yes, emotional infidelity is devastating, yes, but physical is not something either of us could forgive/reconcile. I have never had any sexual relations with anyone else since I met my husband, nor has he been with anyone other than me. And we agree with Sam's POV on this.


My husband knows I find Orlando Bloom attractive. I know he finds Norah Jones attractive. But, even jokingly, we have never and WILL never give a "free pass" because they are celebrities. Why? Because, like Sam, we see it the same as the cashier at the local store. If I'm not giving a free pass for the cashier at Walmart, then I'm certainly not giving a free pass to a celebrity, nor will he give a free pass to me.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

sandc said:


> We would have fun then. I'm reformed in thought (Calvinist.) *And in the end you'd hate me, because I would convince you I was right*.


 Me & my son would gang up on you... him & his room mate (a different guy) had many rounds... oh the fun of it all..... he even managed to get the writer to reconsider some of his calvanistic views..... between me & him of course..... We are not fond of those roots, but you already know this.. I still LIKE you Sand C, it's all good ! 



> No, in reality I'm a one-woman man. Really just a more aggressive version of your H. I love my wife dearly and you KNOW that. But this whole thread is theoretical in nature isn't it? Give me a little fantasy and I will RUN with it! The thought of two highly-devoted yet highly sexual people being stuck on an island together was just too delicious not to contemplate. Think what a movie that would make! The sexual tension as both try to control their most base instincts and remain faithful to their respective spouses... *Movies with lots of sexual tension in them are pure porn for Caramel.*


 Oh yes, I THINK like your wife.. very much. I love those old time Courting movies... I often wish they were more Rated R, turn it into X please.....wouldn't that be the shocker... but nobody makes stuff like that... I have the oddest desires! 


> *Besides, I do so love making you blush.*


 It takes A LOT to make me blush ...







... in real life I would think nothing of talking openly like this... I think they were afraid to allow me to speak at my Mops group, as I might get carried away, might have to throw something at me..... I had them blushing ...and I thought it was great Fun.



> *jld said*: *We apologized immediately. We did not realize how sensitive someone who has experienced something so hurtful could be, and honestly, we did not realize how harmful drug use could be. We had not experienced it ourselves.
> 
> It sounds like samyeagar has some serious sensitivity to this issue. Even joking about it may be a trigger for him. I think maybe he is just trying to communicate this to us.*


 And you are very very wise jld ....appreciate your little story here...and this about sums it up.... 

I'll never forget years ago, I had a christian friend send me a Sexual Joke...and I got offended by it.. I didn't like it - it brought back memories of my mother & what happened to her... about men, etc.. I kinda made a fool out of myself opening up about some of that.. and I am sure that lady never wanted to go there with me again ! I am almost embarrassed thinking back on that now ! 



> *CoffeeAmore said:** It's about playfulness in a relationship. For us it's about lighthearted fun, joking and not taking everything as a sign of whether someone is truly committed to the relationship.* I think it would be so sad to be in a relationship where people have to walk on eggshells around each other because the other interprets everything as a verdict on the state of the marriage.


 Me & mine are the same, heck there is something he said to me about someone he knew that I would not even PUT on this forum (though I have shared it with a few- maybe even you in the past CA ) that others would think he was Disrespectful to me...oh some would slam my sweet husband ...
But NOT ME... 

Heck I asked him... I wanted the bare back truth.. he can say anything to me, I can say anything to him... we both know each other's heart ...and what we mean to each other... noone can compare.....Heck, I 'm weird, I am not even comfortable if a Massage therapist touches me, let alone another [email protected]#$ 

We were so darn conservative in the past...we needed hit with a brick....so to be like THIS is really a breathe of fresh air for us... now we probably go a little overboard even...but it hasn't hurt us ...it has added alot of flavor and fantasy however. 

The thing is... we all come from different personal experiences & hurts against us...vastly different...(as jld was hitting on in her post)....and really.... there are so many types of "boundaries"... where others may enjoy and allow a higher level of sharing....open Joking even.... if a couple is still smiling/ enjoying ....not offended, might even be a bit of a turn on... even if another couple can not understand it or agree... if it's OK with them... I just can't speak against it...ya know. 

Now if one has been greatly hurt...we need to try to understand that perspective and honor it the best we can... by NOT mentioning a celebrity... but keep it to ourselves... this is not asking much either. 

If my husband didn't notice other women I would THINK their is something wrong with him... so long as he loves & wants ME -even if he has other fantasies ...I am good with that. 



> *I think my marriage is stronger because we both can open up to each other, joke around and not be serious all the time. Humor and playfulness go along way in making my marriage to Mr. Coffee Amore*.


 I remember the threads about what men want in a wife.. a # of the responses was .... a woman who doesn't take herself too seriously.. I can do that at times (so my husband said) but I'm at my best when I am not doing that.. and let go.. and just LAUGH my butt off.... ..I've gotten better over the years on this..and it's an improvement... even if I am more open about those crazy fantasies...he'd never take this away from me....it serves him well.


----------



## Want2babettrme

Another Planet said:


> What?! Adam? From the show Man vs Food? Out of all of the men in the world he would be the one you would cheat on your husband with?
> Hmmm interesting





He likes to eat.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

I was getting some new tires today and I saw this posted on the wall in the lobby. Made me think of TAM and all the stories here. Maybe you've seen it before but I thought I'd share:
-------------------------------------------------------

When you are looking at the characteristics on how to build your personal life, *first comes integrity*; second, motivation; third, capacity; fourth, understanding; fifth, knowledge; and last and least experience.

Without integrity, motivation is dangerous; without motivation, capacity is impotent; without capacity, understanding is limited; without understanding, knowledge is meaningless; without knowledge, experience is blind. Experience is easy to provide and quickly put to good use by people with all other qualities.

*Make absolute integrity the compass that guides you in everything you do.* And surround yourself with people of flawless integrity" (Karl Eller).


----------



## jld

Maricha75 said:


> Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't a trigger from having experienced it in the past. I know that not everyone who feels the way he does HAS experienced it. Some see emotional infidelity as different as physical. Some see it the same/equal. For us, yes, emotional infidelity is devastating, yes, but physical is not something either of us could forgive/reconcile. I have never had any sexual relations with anyone else since I met my husband, nor has he been with anyone other than me. And we agree with Sam's POV on this.
> 
> 
> My husband knows I find Orlando Bloom attractive. I know he finds Norah Jones attractive. But, even jokingly, we have never and WILL never give a "free pass" because they are celebrities. Why? Because, like Sam, we see it the same as the cashier at the local store. If I'm not giving a free pass for the cashier at Walmart, then I'm certainly not giving a free pass to a celebrity, nor will he give a free pass to me.


I mentioned this thread to my dd18 tonight, and she sees it just like you do.

I think I would be hurt if my dh mentioned any attraction to another woman. I am very sensitive. And I do not wish to be with any other man. 

Are you saying you do not feel comfortable doing this, or you don't want anyone else too, either, regardless of their comfort level with this sort of thing in their marriage?


----------



## MattMatt

Anonymous Person said:


> I hear many men on this forum say they wouldn't cheat, but I'm not sure I believe all of you.
> 
> There have to be situations where you'd cheat, at least some of you.
> 
> If you were out of country, alone with 3 supermodels for the week, I'd think most of you would do it.
> 
> My opinion, don't take it too personally.


I always told myself I'd never cheat or have an affair. And I turned down an opportunity to do so.

So imagine my surprise when I eventually found myself doing exactly what I thought I'd never do?

And no supermodels were involved, either.


----------



## Singledude21

MattMatt said:


> I always told myself I'd never cheat or have an affair. And I turned down an opportunity to do so.
> 
> So imagine my surprise when I eventually found myself doing exactly what I thought I'd never do?
> 
> And no supermodels were involved, either.


If I'm correct though yours was a EA right?

EA is still no excuse and definitely bad, but in my mind, I just can't see anything but penetration first. 

Penetration just completely kills it and is the world breaker imo. If she gets penetrated, I'm done. If I did the penetrating, I know I'm so f#$ked. Must be that DNA coding or something, cause the first question that always comes to my mind when it comes to affairs in general is "Did sex occur?" then I'd just take it from there.


----------



## Maricha75

jld said:


> I mentioned this thread to my dd18 tonight, and she sees it just like you do.
> 
> I think I would be hurt if my dh mentioned any attraction to another woman. I am very sensitive. And I do not wish to be with any other man.
> 
> Are you saying you do not feel comfortable doing this, or you don't want anyone else too, either, regardless of their comfort level with this sort of thing in their marriage?


I'm saying that if I were with a group of ladies and if any of them were to start talking about a celebrity they would have sex with, if given the chance, I would be very uncomfortable. If they were close friends, I would honestly begin distancing myself from them. If it works for them, that's their choice, of course. But it doesn't work for me... and I couldn't be close friends with someone who thinks that differently.


----------



## Davelli0331

I don't really think that very many people could unequivocally say that they would never cheat under any circumstances whatsoever. Way too many variables, circumstances, and whatnot. 

I believe that there are far fewer people with the fortitude to not cheat no matter the circumstances than we would like to think, though I do believe they exist.


----------



## 12345Person

Davelli0331 said:


> I don't really think that very many people could unequivocally say that they would never cheat under any circumstances whatsoever. Way too many variables, circumstances, and whatnot.
> 
> I believe that there are far fewer people with the fortitude to not cheat no matter the circumstances than we would like to think, though I do believe they exist.


People that have been traumatized by cheating to such a degree that the very idea is a trigger to them.


----------



## Davelli0331

Hey, I agree completely, I'm a BS myself. 

Like I said, there are those with the fortitude not to cheat, and I'd bet a large number of those are people who have been cheated on themselves. It completely changes your perspective.


----------



## jld

Maricha75 said:


> I'm saying that if I were with a group of ladies and if any of them were to start talking about a celebrity they would have sex with, if given the chance, I would be very uncomfortable. If they were close friends, I would honestly begin distancing myself from them. If it works for them, that's their choice, of course. But it doesn't work for me... and I couldn't be close friends with someone who thinks that differently.


I appreciate your saying that. You would maybe feel like they did not have the same moral values you have, and you would not want to risk being influenced by theirs?

Do you think you would be willing to explain to them why you would distance yourself, or would you just try to disappear from their lives?


----------



## always_alone

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Oh come on ... if you were at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and one of the drivers offered to let you take one of the cars around the track, you telling me you'd turn it down?


I'd take that ride. And I'd likely do most, if not all, of the lottery fantasy stuff too.


----------



## jkdood

60% of women cheat. And what are the chances of you being couped up with 3 super models for a week anyways?


----------



## sandc

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Oh come on ... if you were at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and one of the drivers offered to let you take one of the cars around the track, you telling me you'd turn it down?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Yeah, I would. The fantasy is always better than the reality.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

sandc said:


> Yeah, I would. The fantasy is always better than the reality.


Not sure I can summon quite the same adrenaline rush in fantasy land. Taking a car around IMS? That would be awesome!


----------



## sandc

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Not sure I can summon quite the same adrenaline rush in fantasy land.


I guess my airplane supplies all the adrenaline I need.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

sandc said:


> I guess my airplane supplies all the adrenaline I need.


Oh right! Forgot about that.


----------



## Hurtin_Still

Davelli0331 said:


> Hey, I agree completely, I'm a BS myself.
> 
> Like I said, there are those with the fortitude not to cheat, and I'd bet a large number of those are people who have been cheated on themselves. *It completely changes your perspective*.


...bingo.

...I'm a BS ....and I've (my entire life) ....had the capability of being angry, mean, and a masterfully vindictive and vengeful person.

....however ...I'd NEVER ....let me repeat ...NEVER cheat ...due to having the knowledge of what agony can be forced upon a betrayed spouse. In my book, that pain is something I could not wish upon my worst enemy .....nor would I be able to live with myself knowing my actions were the cause of said pain.


----------



## Maricha75

jld said:


> I appreciate your saying that. You would maybe feel like they did not have the same moral values you have, and you would not want to risk being influenced by theirs?


That pretty much sums it up. Granted, I'm no perfect angel myself, but having learned the hard way with EA, it puts things more into perspective regarding other things, for us, at least.



jld said:


> Do you think you would be willing to explain to them why you would distance yourself, or would you just try to disappear from their lives?


I honestly don't know. I think, if they asked, I would explain that it makes me uncomfortable and if that's how they feel about it, even in joking, I cannot handle being around that. If they don't ask, it would likely be a gradual thing that happens sometimes.


----------



## Latigo

Both my wife and I have met celebrity crushes of ours, so this talk of "passes" wouldn't fly for us. Not saying that either of us could have gotten with either of them, but we are of the opinion that when you say things like that, the universe may just test you on it. 

About 7 years ago I went back to school. With me at 33-34 and most of my classmates being 21-27, never in a million years did I think I'd get hit on. I, a guy who couldn't get a girl to acknowledge his existence in high school or in my first incarnation as an undergrad. But it happened. Many times. Once by a woman so good looking that my wife didn't even believe me at first when I told her. It never occurred to me to cheat with any of these ladies. 

If I had, there is no way she'd have known. But I would have. I like what we "are". I like what we have. Maybe I romanticize us, but, I don't want things to change. Not even if it's only in my own imagination.


----------



## Gomerpyle

I dunno. I'm a BS and I don't see what difference it makes. I have no capacity for revenge nor vindictiveness and having a spouse that betrayed me didn't seem to change my character one way or the other. I also didn't care about the sex. It was all the lying and cruel mind games - having everyone but the husband "in" on the betrayal. 

Although I did not cheat on a spouse before, my current work environment makes it just way too easy to pick and choose which little miss perfect to take for a spin. But the wife is fine with that and gets text messages with real time updates on exactly what is going on. The girls know I love my wife and I show them the text messages going back and forth so they are clear on the wife being the boss.


----------



## aug

Gomerpyle said:


> I dunno. I'm a BS and I don't see what difference it makes. I have no capacity for revenge nor vindictiveness and having a spouse that betrayed me didn't seem to change my character one way or the other. I also didn't care about the sex. It was all the lying and cruel mind games - having everyone but the husband "in" on the betrayal.
> 
> Although I did not cheat on a spouse before, my current work environment makes it just way too easy to pick and choose which little miss perfect to take for a spin. But the wife is fine with that and gets text messages with real time updates on exactly what is going on. The girls know I love my wife and I show them the text messages going back and forth so they are clear on the wife being the boss.


That's because, according to your profile, you're in an open relationship.


----------



## RClawson

I had this discussion with my SO a couple of years ago. I know there are some people who just have the mindset, commitment and resolve to know they will never go done this road. I think this segment of the population is quite small.

My wife believed she was part of that segment yet when I told her that I believed anyone given the right circumstances, in the wrong place with the wrong person was in danger of succumbing she agreed. I do not mean all these celebrity scenarios because that is just tripe. 

I like to believe that I would never cheat but I am not naive enough to think it could never happen although I believe the odds diminish every passing year.


----------



## sandc

RClawson said:


> I like to believe that I would never cheat but I am not naive enough to think it could never happen although I believe the odds diminish every passing year.


Nature decreases our chances of cheating with every year that passes.


----------



## Gomerpyle

aug said:


> That's because, according to your profile, you're in an open relationship.


:scratchhead:

Go ahead and explain how the current marriage has anything to do with the previous half century of monogamous relationships. I was in my 20's when my wife had her affair, and I had no inkling I would ever consider an open marriage then, a lifetime ago.


----------



## FormerSelf

All I can say that there have been some key times when I've had to walk away...and numerous times when I've just played "dumb" to some advances. I guess I've taken my vows very seriously...even when there have been seasons of unhappiness.


----------



## movealong

I was in the Navy and deployed to places where women were available such as the Philippines, and never cheated on my ex.

I have had several business trips across country during my current marriage, and never cheated. Even when I was drunk, and we got off the elevator and was invited to her room.

I think it is more the fact that I hated my Dad for cheating and swore I would never do it than anything else.


----------



## samyeagar

Maricha75 said:


> That pretty much sums it up. Granted, I'm no perfect angel myself, but having learned the hard way with EA, it puts things more into perspective regarding other things, for us, at least.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know. I think, if they asked, I would explain that it makes me uncomfortable and if that's how they feel about it, even in joking, I cannot handle being around that. If they don't ask, it would likely be a gradual thing that happens sometimes.


My feeling on this issue are not ones of being triggered, but rather ones of respect, and I appreciate you sharing your feelings on this to show that it is possible that I am not obviously just triggering. When people say things like "Oh he's obviously triggering" that is extremely dismissive, and a rationalization as to why one doesn't actually have to consider what the other person is saying. Just like if someone says "oh, she's just on her period."

I understand what others have said about it being harmless fantasy, and for those people at that time, it may be. I still believe that saying the words, even jokinly, not seriously is sending the message that you would cheat on your spouse, because well, you are actually saying those exact words. 

That is all fine and dandy at the time if things are being fun and light hearted, the relationship is in a good place, but I'll be damned if I'm going to intentionally say anything, especially jokingly that could possibly sow any kind of seed of doubt when things may not be going so well. 

For me, there is no upsiade to me telling my STBW which celeb I would like to bang. I gain nothing from it emotionally, physically, otherwise that could outweight even the remotest possibility it could contribute to an issue, even indirectly later on.

I am not saying that is wrong for others, I just happen to think about it differently, though from the responses here, I am certainly not alone in my thinking. Again, for me, it is about respecting my wife.


----------



## always_alone

samyeagar said:


> For me, there is no upsiade to me telling my STBW which celeb I would like to bang. I gain nothing from it emotionally, physically, otherwise that could outweight even the remotest possibility it could contribute to an issue, even indirectly later on.


Sometimes I wish my SO showed this same respect for me.

Other times, I'm glad that I found out the real truth about where I stand. Truth may be painful, but I think it's better than living the lie?


----------



## samyeagar

always_alone said:


> Sometimes I wish my SO showed this same respect for me.
> 
> Other times, I'm glad that I found out the real truth about where I stand. Truth may be painful, but I think it's better than living the lie?


My respect for her is nothing but the truth. I can't hide what I don't feel, and I'm not going to tell her something I don't feel.


----------



## Faithful Wife

sam - my husband is like you. He would never tell me what celeb he'd like to bang. Not classy.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> sam - my husband is like you. He would never tell me what celeb he'd like to bang. Not classy.


So what is it about your husband and myself that makes us so different, and according to others, obviously insecure and triggered?


----------



## jld

Sam, I was trying to be supportive to you and Maricha by telling my little story about joking in college. I was not quite sure why you and Maricha did not seem to see that.

Maybe there is a definition or connotation of triggering that I am somehow not getting. When I mentioned it, I just meant that while for some people a joking mention of sleeping with celebs is just funny, for you it obviously is not. Again, the point of my story was to say to people, hey, this is obviously not funny to some people here, and out of respect for them, this conversation should probably stop, or at least include some sensitivity to their position.

I would be hurt if my husband ever joked about sleeping with anyone else. I really would not even want to hear if he found someone else pretty. I guess I am just not that secure. I have always felt that he loved and desired only me, and I like it that way.

I don't have any desire to be with anyone else, either. The time I have spent on these marriage boards has only increased my appreciation for my dh.

It is good that you and Maricha expressed your views, and that Faithful Wife is also making hers known. We benefit from hearing everyone's voice.


----------



## treyvion

Faithful Wife said:


> sam - my husband is like you. He would never tell me what celeb he'd like to bang. Not classy.


Maybe he'd prefer to bang you.


----------



## sandc

If talking about a free pass hurts you or your spouse, you shouldn't do it. But if it is just a fun harmless activity for others and their spouses, don't condemn them for doing it. We know neither of us would ever do it. It's just talk.

It's okay for me to have an alcoholic drink every once in a while. A friend of mine is a recovering alcoholic, he can never have a drink ever again. It's okay for me but not for him. And I don't drink while he is around out of respect for him.

So if I knew it hurt my spouse to talk about the free pass, I wouldn't. But I know it doesn't so I do. So does she. And it's not like an every day occurrence. Just when we're feeling playful. To me it's exactly like the lottery example already cited. Just harmless what-if talk. 

I like it that my wife trusts me enough to share her deepest darkest desires and secrets with me. I do the same with her. For us, it works. For others, it may not.


----------



## samyeagar

jld said:


> *Sam, I was trying to be supportive to you and Maricha by telling my little story about joking in college. I was not quite sure why you and Maricha did not seem to see that.*
> Maybe there is a definition or connotation of triggering that I am somehow not getting. When I mentioned it, I just meant that while for some people a joking mention of sleeping with celebs is just funny, for you it obviously is not. Again, the point of my story was to say to people, hey, this is obviously not funny to some people here, and out of respect for them, this conversation should probably stop, or at least include some sensitivity to their position.
> 
> I would be hurt if my husband ever joked about sleeping with anyone else. I really would not even want to hear if he found someone else pretty. *I guess I am just not that secure.* I have always felt that he loved and desired only me, and I like it that way.
> 
> I don't have any desire to be with anyone else, either. The time I have spent on these marriage boards has only increased my appreciation for my dh.
> 
> It is good that you and Maricha expressed your views, and that Faithful Wife is also making hers known. We benefit from hearing everyone's voice.


I wasn't really put off by what you said. It was the dismissive and condecending to of other posters, so no worries ok?

Also, much like people not standing up and enforcing their own boundaries lest they be called controlling, just because you say you are hurt hearing your spouse would sleep with someone else does NOT make you insecure in your relationship, so get that thought out of your head. You are not being insecure. You are feeling the protective and mate guarding instinct, and there is nothing wrong with that.


----------



## jld

samyeagar said:


> I wasn't really put off by what you said. It was the dismissive and condecending to of other posters, so no worries ok?
> 
> Also, much like people not standing up and enforcing their own boundaries lest they be called controlling, just because you say you are hurt hearing your spouse would sleep with someone else does NOT make you insecure in your relationship, so get that thought out of your head. You are not being insecure. You are feeling the protective and mate guarding instinct, and there is nothing wrong with that.


Okay, thanks.


----------



## Faithful Wife

sam - On your last post, yes, I agree. I think what you are trying to say is that you can feel *jealous* without feeling insecure, which I absolutely agree with. Someone or something can threaten the boundaries of your relationship and make you feel jealous, but you don't also necessarily have to feel there is something wrong with you (insecure).

I think the main reason my husband wouldn't say such tacky things to me is that when you have already all the great sex you could ever want, you don't tend to put celebrities on pedastals.

This doesn't mean we don't think other people are attractive or that we don't have a sexual response to others...we do, it happens. It is just something we both understand doesn't "mean anything". Thinking people are attractive doesn't mean you also have to spout off about wanting to bang them.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> sam - On your last post, yes, I agree. I think what you are trying to say is that you can feel *jealous* without feeling insecure, which I absolutely agree with. Someone or something can threaten the boundaries of your relationship and make you feel jealous, but you don't also necessarily have to feel there is something wrong with you (insecure).
> 
> I think the main reason my husband wouldn't say such tacky things to me is that when you have already all the great sex you could ever want, *you don't tend to put celebrities on pedastals.*
> 
> This doesn't mean we don't think other people are attractive or that we don't have a sexual response to others...we do, it happens. It is just something we both understand doesn't "mean anything". Thinking people are attractive doesn't mean you also have to spout off about wanting to bang them.


Of course, the grocery bagger or waitress are already off the pedistal, and most others consider talking about them the same way as very rude, disrespectful.

To me, the offense is not who the other person is, or that my partner finds them attractive, because we both notice attractive people all around us. To me, the offense is the suggestion of infidelity...kind of reminds me of...but honey, you know I'm only joking when I laughingly tell you you need to lose about 70lbs in front of your friends...


----------



## Healer

Anonymous Person said:


> I hear many men on this forum say they wouldn't cheat, but I'm not sure I believe all of you.
> 
> There have to be situations where you'd cheat, at least some of you.
> 
> If you were out of country, alone with 3 supermodels for the week, I'd think most of you would do it.
> 
> My opinion, don't take it too personally.


Nope - I never cheated. Frontman/lead guitarist in working bands - lots of opportunity - never cheated, not once. My stbxw certainly did, though.


----------



## treyvion

Healer said:


> Nope - I never cheated. Frontman/lead guitarist in working bands - lots of opportunity - never cheated, not once. My stbxw certainly did, though.


I'm sure that just rips you up something good. She may have figured you were doing it too, since it is part of the lifestyle. It makes it difficult to walk on the path of personal integrity and faithfulness, when you have as many opportunities as you did which you did not give any weight too, but your spouse did it to you.


----------



## Coffee Amore

sandc said:


> If talking about a free pass hurts you or your spouse, you shouldn't do it. But if it is just a fun harmless activity for others and their spouses, don't condemn them for doing it. We know neither of us would ever do it. It's just talk.
> 
> It's okay for me to have an alcoholic drink every once in a while. A friend of mine is a recovering alcoholic, he can never have a drink ever again. It's okay for me but not for him. And I don't drink while he is around out of respect for him.
> 
> So if I knew it hurt my spouse to talk about the free pass, I wouldn't. But I know it doesn't so I do. So does she. And it's not like an every day occurrence. Just when we're feeling playful. To me it's exactly like the lottery example already cited. Just harmless what-if talk.
> 
> I like it that my wife trusts me enough to share her deepest darkest desires and secrets with me. I do the same with her. For us, it works. For others, it may not.


Well said. 

If a relationship can't handle silly talks like "what if" about a celebrity, then don't do it and that's fine, but don't paint people who do it as crude or amoral. I don't think there's some moral highground for those who avoid such discussions. It's interesting the people in this thread who came out in support of the what-if talks all seem to have good, stable strong marriages without infidelity or inappropriate friendship issues.


----------



## Healer

treyvion said:


> I'm sure that just rips you up something good. She may have figured you were doing it too, since it is part of the lifestyle. It makes it difficult to walk on the path of personal integrity and faithfulness, when you have as many opportunities as you did which you did not give any weight too, but your spouse did it to you.


Tell me about it - biggest mind f*ck I've ever experienced. She accused me of cheating our entire 15 years together. Oh the irony.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Coffee said: "It's interesting the people in this thread who came out in support of the what-if talks all seem to have good, stable strong marriages without infidelity or inappropriate friendship issues."

Um....really?


----------



## sandc

Faithful Wife said:


> Coffee said: "It's interesting the people in this thread who came out in support of the what-if talks all seem to have good, stable strong marriages without infidelity or inappropriate friendship issues."
> 
> Um....really?


It's true in my case. I'm sure there are some strong healthy marriages that don't tolerate this sort of talk. But that was the point of what I wrote, and that is what Coffee was agreeing with.

Vive la difference.


----------



## Faithful Wife

sandc...Maybe I have you confused with another poster but I thought your marriage had been through extensive infidelity.


----------



## samyeagar

Coffee Amore said:


> Well said.
> 
> If a relationship can't handle silly talks like "what if" about a celebrity, then don't do it and that's fine, but don't paint people who do it as crude or amoral. I don't think there's some moral highground for those who avoid such discussions. It's interesting the people in this thread who came out in support of the what-if talks all seem to have good, stable strong marriages without infidelity or inappropriate friendship issues.


I don't think anyone has painted not having the fantasy of cheating on your spouse with a celebrity as the moral high ground, and the dismissive and condecending tone of being silly, insecure, towards those who chose not to do that is staggering.

For the record, I am not insecure in my relationship at all. What others may read as insecurity is simply not. I have no doubts that I have my STBW wrapped so tight around my d1ck mentally, emotionally, physically, and it didn't get that way because I'm insecure.


----------



## sandc

Faithful Wife said:


> sandc...Maybe I have you confused with another poster but I thought your marriage had been through extensive infidelity.


You have me confused with someone else. You can check out my story, we've been through a lot. But neither of us has cheated.


----------



## samyeagar

sandc said:


> It's true in my case. I'm sure there are some strong healthy marriages that don't tolerate this sort of talk. But that was the point of what I wrote, and that is what Coffee was agreeing with.
> 
> *Vive la difference*.





sandc said:


> You have me confused with someone else. You can check out my story, we've been through a lot. But neither of us has cheated.


yep. To each their own  I didn't think you guys had been through infidelity...


----------



## Faithful Wife

I guess I would call it infidelity, sandc. I know you don't, but I would.

If I understand your story correctly, you started trolling swinger sites without your wife then later convinced her to do things she didn't want to do.

To me, trolling the swinger sites and talking to other men about doing your wife is infidelity.


----------



## Maricha75

Faithful Wife said:


> I guess I would call it infidelity, sandc. I know you don't, but I would.
> 
> If I understand your story correctly, you started trolling swinger sites without your wife then later convinced her to do things she didn't want to do.
> 
> To me, trolling the swinger sites and talking to other men about doing your wife is infidelity.


:iagree:
To me, it would be as well... same with talking to other women about doing your husband. 

I'm glad your marriage is stronger now, sandc, I truly am. And, if you and Caramel both don't view that particular period in your marriage as infidelity then that's fine for you. But, I am sure you would agree that some, FaithfulWife and myself included, would view it differently... as you say: Vive la difference.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Faithful Wife said:


> I guess I would call it infidelity, sandc. I know you don't, but I would.
> 
> If I understand your story correctly, you started trolling swinger sites without your wife then later convinced her to do things she didn't want to do.
> 
> To me, trolling the swinger sites and talking to other men about doing your wife is infidelity.


That's not how SandC's story went.

SandC was trying to convince his wife to get involved in the swinger lifestyle because he had a particular problem. He wife stood with him, they both tried it either once or a couple of times, and she didn't like it.

In discussing it after, the issue came out and his wife was able to address his problem.

No where in their marriage was there ever infidelity, as far as I can remember.
He was on my thread , we chatted about his story and I along with a few others encouraged his to post his story.
In fact many times I have used his thread as a reference in some of my other threads dealing with similar topics.
It was something he openly tried getting his wife involved into.
How can that be infidelity if they both agreed?


----------



## samyeagar

Caribbean Man said:


> That's not how SandC's story went.
> 
> SandC was trying to convince his wife to get involved in the swinger lifestyle because he had a particular problem. He wife stood with him, they both tried it once and she didn't like it.
> 
> In discussing it after, the issue came out and he wife was able to address his problem.
> 
> No where in their marriage was there ever infidelity, as far as I can remember.
> He was on my thread , we chatted about his story and I along with a few others encouraged his to post his story.
> In fact many times I have used his thread as a reference in some of my other threads dealing with similar topics.
> It was something he openly tried getting his wife involved into.
> *How can that be infidelity if they both agreed*?


I understand your point on this as my STBW had the same thought process when she chose to engage in threesomes in an attempt to control her husbands cheating. It may have just been a rationalization tool on her part.

To nit pick here...just becase neither side of a contract chooses to terminate the contract does not mean it wasn't violated.


----------



## sandc

Maricha75 said:


> :iagree:
> To me, it would be as well... same with talking to other women about doing your husband.
> 
> I'm glad your marriage is stronger now, sandc, I truly am. And, if you and Caramel both don't view that particular period in your marriage as infidelity then that's fine for you. But, I am sure you would agree that some, FaithfulWife and myself included, would view it differently... as you say: Vive la difference.


I don't think it was cheating. We both knew what we were doing when we invited other parties into our marriage. It's a chapter in life I'm not proud of and would change.

The positive outcome is that that we now love Christ more than before because His grace abounded and covered all our sins.

I would just caution that you not sit too high on the horse, it's a long way down.


----------



## Caribbean Man

samyeagar said:


> I understand your point on this as my STBW had the same thought process when she chose to engage in threesomes in an attempt to control her husbands cheating. It may have just been a rationalization tool on her part.
> 
> To nit pick here...just becase neither side of a contract chooses to terminate the contract does not mean it wasn't violated.


One of the things I learnt from that Threesomes And So Fourth... thread I did was that some married people actually agree to choose that lifestyle.

Most regret it after, but none of them see it as infidelity.
In fact most of them enter it in an effort to " spice things up" in their sex life , and there are very strict rules. If one partner decides to go outside of the rules they both agreed to, then they considered it cheating.

Swinging just like cheating is damaging to a marriage maybe even worse. But I honestly don't see it as cheating, neither is it something I'm interested in trying.


----------



## sandc

Caribbean Man said:


> That's not how SandC's story went.
> 
> SandC was trying to convince his wife to get involved in the swinger lifestyle because he had a particular problem. He wife stood with him, they both tried it either once or a couple of times, and she didn't like it.
> 
> In discussing it after, the issue came out and his wife was able to address his problem.
> 
> No where in their marriage was there ever infidelity, as far as I can remember.
> He was on my thread , we chatted about his story and I along with a few others encouraged his to post his story.
> In fact many times I have used his thread as a reference in some of my other threads dealing with similar topics.
> It was something he openly tried getting his wife involved into.
> How can that be infidelity if they both agreed?


Thank you my brother. I think that is a fair assessment.


----------



## 12345Person

Threesomes =/= Cheating

/endof


----------



## samyeagar

Caribbean Man said:


> One of the things I learnt from that url=http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/58606-threesomes-so-fourth.htmlOption]" Threesomes And So Founth..."[/url] thread I did was that some married people actually agree to choose that lifestyle.
> 
> Most regret it after, but none of them see it as infidelity.
> In fact most of them enter it in an effort to " spice things up" in their sex life , and there are very strict rules. If one partner decides to go outside of the rules they both agreed to, then they considered it cheating.
> 
> Swinging just like cheating is damaging to a marriage maybe even worse. But I honestly don't see it as cheating, neither is it something I'm interested in trying.


Again, I understand hat you are saying, and your reasoning. I know it is something some couples delve into, and like you, no way is it for me. I am not passing judgement on those who choose that lifestyle either. They can do what they want in their mariages.

I guess I am simply pointing out symantics. If the marriage vows they took included forsaking all others, then by definition, even if they give permission, the marital contract is still technicaly broken, even if they agree not to enforce it.


----------



## sandc

So your definition is cheating=infidelity?

Swingers are cheaters? People in an open marriage are cheaters? They know what the other is doing, no? 

My definition, cheating - dececeiving your spouse into believing you are faithful when you are in fact having extra-marital sex with a third party.

Infidelity - in general, having sex with someone other than your spouse

My wife and I were unfaithful, we did not cheat. You may say I'm splitting hairs and arguing semantics. Fine. But that's how I view it. We did not deceive each other. That is what I should have clarified in the first place.

FW accused me of cheating and having multiple affairs. I did not cheat nor have multiple affairs nor have a single "affair" as it is defined. We both knew full well what the other was doing. Heck, we were in the same room.


----------



## Caribbean Man

samyeagar said:


> Again, I understand hat you are saying, and your reasoning. I know it is something some couples delve into, and like you, no way is it for me. I am not passing judgement on those who choose that lifestyle either. They can do what they want in their mariages.
> 
> I guess I am simply pointing out symantics. If the marriage vows they took included forsaking all others, then by definition, even if they give permission, the marital contract is still technicaly broken, even if they agree not to enforce it.


And technically I'm not disagreeing with you.

However , both you and I might feel that way, but they who are involved in it rationalize it differently.

Doing that thread was a real eye opener for me!
Quite a few couples right here on TAM who didn't even post on the thread PMed me to explain how they saw it, and that they were involved in it.
In reality they viewed it as just a different type of boundary to other monogamous marriages.

See?

So in reality they didn't consider it as cheating.
Obviously we see it differently to them , because the marriage vows are specific.
But I'm not disagreeing with you!

Maybe if you have time , take a look at the thread, it was a lengthy ,controversial , very heated debate.


----------



## Faithful Wife

sandc...I am sorry I had your story wrong.

I went back and re-read your post in LTS.

It certainly wasn't the story I thought it was, so I'm positive in my head I mixed up your story with someone else. I am sorry, again.

However, there were still parts you described in the story where your wife was not in on what you were up to, you were independently acting toward swinging for a time, or so that is how the story read. And you also described how you actively convinced her to be up for the swinging, yet she never truly was. Then when she wanted to stop, you didn't want to stop. I don't know...the story is sad to me....and definitely feels like cheating. And in your position, it would just seem like you would take a bit more care to have stricter boundaries. I know many people here love you and I will likely get flamed for this but...(shrug)...I dunno. 

I'm not on a high horse, I'm full of my own sins, fears, regrets, etc. I know you love your wife, I'm not really saying you'd cheat or whatever...all I was getting at was that it seems like loose boundaries were a problem for you before and why tempt fate with them now?


----------



## sandc

Faithful Wife said:


> sandc...I am sorry I had your story wrong.
> 
> I went back and re-read your post in LTS.
> 
> It certainly wasn't the story I thought it was, so I'm positive in my head I mixed up your story with someone else. I am sorry, again.


Thank you for that. I truly mean that.



Faithful Wife said:


> However, there were still parts you described in the story where your wife was not in on what you were up to, you were independently acting toward swinging for a time, or so that is how the story read. And you also described how you actively convinced her to be up for the swinging, yet she never truly was. Then when she wanted to stop, you didn't want to stop. I don't know...the story is sad to me....and definitely feels like cheating. And in your position, it would just seem like you would take a bit more care to have stricter boundaries. I know many people here love you and I will likely get flamed for this but...(shrug)...I dunno.


Please understand. I'm not trying to justify my role in what I did. But I don't characterize researching swinging as cheating. After my research, I told her what I'd been researching. I don't characterize convincing her to try it as cheating. Adultery? Most certainly. There was no deception involved. Everything we did, we did together.



Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not on a high horse, I'm full of my own sins, fears, regrets, etc. I know you love your wife, I'm not really saying you'd cheat or whatever...all I was getting at was that it seems like loose boundaries were a problem for you before and why tempt fate with them now?


God works all things to the good of those who love Him. Even our own sins were used to sanctify us. Believe me, there is no tempting. I may cavalierly joke about bedding Italian bathing suit beauties, but that's because I know I won't. I know she won't. We've already learned that the grass is greener at home in the most painful way. There is no one more perfectly suited for me that she, and for her than I. We have already been to hell and back with one another and came out... together.

THAT is why.

And I do thank you FW, for the gentle answer. Any bristling I may have felt at your earlier post was immediately diffused. A gentle answer truly does turn away wrath. 

God's blessings!


----------



## Lyris

We don't do "what if" discussions. I'm not stupid enough to think I'm the only person my husband wants to f*ck, but I don't need to hear about it.

I don't get the appeal, honestly. What good does it do? I know the kind of women he finds attractive, so I could make a few guesses as could he for me. But discussing it seems pointless, as well as tacky and possibly hurtful.


----------



## Daisy2714

Anon Pink said:


> Raises hand..... I totally would cheat if George Clooney knocked on my door.





ScarletBegonias said:


> aww he's soooo sexy!! I just wanna eat with him and do other stuff


Mine would have to be Clive Owen  My husband's would be Sandra Bullock.



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Realistically, in the right circumstances I think anyone will cheat. There are things you do, and things you don't do, that prevent or enable those circumstances. The best non-cheat answer that can be given IMO, is that one always works to prevent being in a situation where they are vulnerable to temptation. I don't believe for a second that anyone is immune to it


On a more serious note, I agree with this statement completely.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Same here,Daisy.I agree w/the post you quoted from Dvls.I've seen too much and read too much to believe otherwise.

I'll admit to being judgmental of people in the open marriage and swinger lifestyle.For my marriage,that sort of behavior is cheating with permission so we wouldn't do it. If it works for the people in that situation,great for them! I won't try to push my traditional marriage on people and I expect them not to push their lifestyle on me. Same with religion.


----------



## samyeagar

sandc said:


> So your definition is cheating=infidelity?
> 
> Swingers are cheaters? People in an open marriage are cheaters? They know what the other is doing, no?
> 
> *My definition, cheating - dececeiving your spouse into believing you are faithful when you are in fact having extra-marital sex with a third party.*
> 
> Infidelity - in general, having sex with someone other than your spouse
> 
> My wife and I were unfaithful, we did not cheat. You may say I'm splitting hairs and arguing semantics. Fine. But that's how I view it. We did not deceive each other. That is what I should have clarified in the first place.
> 
> FW accused me of cheating and having multiple affairs. I did not cheat nor have multiple affairs nor have a single "affair" as it is defined. We both knew full well what the other was doing. Heck, we were in the same room.


So just for clarification here...if you said "Honey, I'm going over to that waitresses house tonight, and am going to bang her brains out." Since you were not deceptive, it is not cheating even though your wife says no way in hell?


----------



## samyeagar

Daisy2714 said:


> *Mine would have to be Clive Owen * My husband's would be Sandra Bullock.
> 
> 
> 
> On a more serious note, I agree with this statement completely.


So you would actually sleep with another man while married to you your husband?


----------



## ScarletBegonias

samyeagar said:


> So you would actually sleep with another man while married to you your husband?


ok,I get you're not ok with the concept of joking about a celebrity f**k sesh for YOUR marriage.But just bc the people here are joking around about it on the board does NOT mean it should be taken literally.

What's with the attitude about it,honestly? If it doesn't work for you then don't do it. I'm pretty sure Daisy was just posting in fun and has no intention of ever sleeping with anyone other than her husband.


----------



## treyvion

ScarletBegonias said:


> ok,I get you're not ok with the concept of joking about a celebrity f**k sesh for YOUR marriage.But just bc the people here are joking around about it on the board does NOT mean it should be taken literally.
> 
> What's with the attitude about it,honestly? If it doesn't work for you then don't do it. I'm pretty sure Daisy was just posting in fun and has no intention of ever sleeping with anyone other than her husband.


It's a pretty normal and common "joke" for couples.


----------



## johndz

Lol, I will tell yopu the truth.
I really like women, too much. But all my life I was so romantic, when I fell in love, I can't cheat, sometiems I found myself flirting with other girls, but it was just a game, I couldnt cheat.

Now I am not so romantic, the live has punched hard. Now the reason for not cheating is:
I don't wanna discuss with two or more women, ONE IS ENOUGH, all women kick you over time, so ONE IS ENOUGH.


----------



## Maricha75

johndz said:


> Lol, I will tell yopu the truth.
> I really like women, too much. But all my life I was so romantic, when I fell in love, I can't cheat, sometiems I found myself flirting with other girls, but it was just a game, I couldnt cheat.
> 
> Now I am not so romantic, the live has punched hard. Now the reason for not cheating is:
> I don't wanna discuss with two or more women, ONE IS ENOUGH, *all women kick you over time*, so ONE IS ENOUGH.


I'm sorry you have had such a hard time, but this part in bold above, I can tell you is absolutely untrue. No, not ALL women will treat you poorly, just as not all men will treat us poorly. Sadly, it's the ones who DO do this sort of crap who make it harder for the rest.


----------



## I Notice The Details

My wife is still wondering if Harrison Ford or Sean Connery will ring the doorbell.....


----------



## sinnister

Every man here would cheat given the right circumstance. It's like saying I would never steal. Ya...maybe not now. In your current situation but starve for a few days and see if you don't steal some bread. Have any kids? Watch them go hungry and see if you don't steal to feed them if you couldnt get the money to buy food. If you couldnt just go to a shelter.

People on forums can say whatever the heck the want to say. Nobody to verify and every body wants to sound morally sanctified. The truth about humans says otherwise. Take away any of the basic necessities of life that we take for granted and we are capable of anything.


----------



## Another Planet

sinnister said:


> Every man here would cheat given the right circumstance. It's like saying I would never steal. Ya...maybe not now. In your current situation but starve for a few days and see if you don't steal some bread. Have any kids? Watch them go hungry and see if you don't steal to feed them if you couldnt get the money to buy food. If you couldnt just go to a shelter.
> 
> People on forums can say whatever the heck the want to say. Nobody to verify and every body wants to sound morally sanctified. The truth about humans says otherwise. Take away any of the basic necessities of life that we take for granted and we are capable of anything.


Yeah for unhealthy minds. It is all right there for you, everything it's there for you to take. You make the decision to do right or wrong... you would obviously do the wrong.

Another justifier! We live in a civilized world dude everything you want at your fingertips, it's up to you to get what you want. And you are cool with being a cheat and a liar.


----------



## Maricha75

sinnister said:


> Every man here would cheat given the right circumstance. It's like saying I would never steal. Ya...maybe not now. In your current situation but starve for a few days and see if you don't steal some bread. Have any kids? Watch them go hungry and see if you don't steal to feed them if you couldnt get the money to buy food. If you couldnt just go to a shelter.
> 
> People on forums can say whatever the heck the want to say. Nobody to verify and every body wants to sound morally sanctified. The truth about humans says otherwise. Take away any of the basic necessities of life that we take for granted and we are capable of anything.


So, does that mean you have reached your breaking point? Unless I have you confused with someone else, I believe you are having.... problems.... with your wife... meaning sexless/nearly sexless. Has this continued? And, have you reached that breaking point that you have been with another woman? 

I'm sorry, but your assessment of "everyone" is dead wrong. Some will not succumb to that temptation, no matter what is thrown at them. It's because they have the integrity to do the right thing. Unless I am mistaken, I swear you have spoken up for NOT cheating...so this really does surprise me.... but maybe I have you confused with someone else. Regardless, I stand by my words: not everyone will cheat.


----------



## over20

I Notice The Details said:


> My wife is still wondering if Harrison Ford or Sean Connery will ring the doorbell.....


Harrison Ford....


----------



## Coffee Amore

samyeagar said:


> So just for clarification here...if you said "Honey, I'm going over to that waitresses house tonight, and am going to bang her brains out." Since you were not deceptive, it is not cheating even though your wife says no way in hell?


Honestly why are you taking potshots at other people? Aren't you the one who is about to marry a woman who slept with her own stepson?


----------



## soccermom2three

I have been so disppointed in friends and family, (my Dad for one), when I have found out they've cheated it's really hard not to be jaded.

Fortunately I haven't been cheated on in my marriage. My husband is a good guy and like some of the men here, he has said that he would never cheat but I wonder if my Dad thought the same thing about himself. My Dad was caught up by a women at a really bad time in his life, Kind of a perfect storm of life events. I not giving him an excuse but he was very weak at the time. It's hard for me not to be nervous? scared? that the same could happen with my husband.


----------



## Davelli0331

sinnister said:


> Every man here would cheat given the right circumstance. It's like saying I would never steal. Ya...maybe not now. In your current situation but starve for a few days and see if you don't steal some bread. Have any kids? Watch them go hungry and see if you don't steal to feed them if you couldnt get the money to buy food. If you couldnt just go to a shelter.
> 
> People on forums can say whatever the heck the want to say. Nobody to verify and every body wants to sound morally sanctified. The truth about humans says otherwise. Take away any of the basic necessities of life that we take for granted and we are capable of anything.


I agree with Maricha that I don't think this describes _everyone_, but I do think that it describes many people who otherwise think they wouldn't cheat.

For _many_ (but not _all_) people who claim they would never cheat, how easy is it for them to say that when they've never been through some of the extreme circumstances we see here on TAM?

E.g. I can say I'd never cheat, but I've never been in a 20 year long sexless marriage to a cold, unfeeling, emotionally abusive woman whom I still wouldn't divorce for whatever reason (kids, money, etc). Now, yeah, that's a contrived example, and we can play all kinds of what-ifs or say, "He should just divorce her", but I'm just talking about me personally. I would like to think I wouldn't cheat, but I've been through enough crazy situations in life that I know I can never unequivocally say how I'd react until I cross that particular bridge.

But that's just me. There are people that I think would never cheat under any circumstance, it just violates a core moral principle.

But I think for many others it's just a case of being able to easily say it without having to ever go through some of these circumstances. That doesn't excuse the cheating, and of course many people cheat while in good, healthy marriages, too.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Coffee Amore said:


> Honestly why are you taking potshots at other people? Aren't you the one who is about to marry a woman who slept with her own stepson?


wow really?!


----------



## samyeagar

Coffee Amore said:


> Honestly why are you taking potshots at other people? Aren't you the one who is about to marry a woman who slept with her own stepson?


And you say I'm taking a pot shot? 

And yes, I am marrying a woman who slept with her step son.

I do think this post does cross a line considering what is being discussed in this thread. Your responses to this point have been very condecending, this however is nothing but an attempt to be directly and personally hurtful.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Davelli0331 said:


> E.g. I can say I'd never cheat, but I've never been in a 20 year long sexless marriage to a cold, unfeeling, emotionally abusive woman whom I still wouldn't divorce for whatever reason (kids, money, etc). Now, yeah, that's a contrived example, and we can play all kinds of what-ifs or say, "He should just divorce her", but I'm just talking about me personally. I would like to think I wouldn't cheat, but I've been through enough crazy situations in life that I know I can never unequivocally say how I'd react until I cross that particular bridge.I know I would cheat under those circumstances. ETA I wouldn't seek it out but if the situation occurred I would be very poorly equipped to maintain my boundaries if my marriage was like that.
> 
> But that's just me. There are people that I think would never cheat under any circumstance, it just violates a core moral principle.I'm not woven from that particular section of moral cloth.I wish I was but I'm a selfish person when it comes to my happiness and needs.


----------



## samyeagar

Davelli0331 said:


> I agree with Maricha that I don't think this describes _everyone_, but I do think that it describes many people who otherwise think they wouldn't cheat.
> 
> For _many_ (but not _all_) people who claim they would never cheat, how easy is it for them to say that when they've never been through some of the extreme circumstances we see here on TAM?
> 
> E.g. I can say I'd never cheat, but I've never been in a 20 year long sexless marriage to a cold, unfeeling, emotionally abusive woman whom I still wouldn't divorce for whatever reason (kids, money, etc). Now, yeah, that's a contrived example, and we can play all kinds of what-ifs or say, "He should just divorce her", but I'm just talking about me personally. I would like to think I wouldn't cheat, but I've been through enough crazy situations in life that I know I can never unequivocally say how I'd react until I cross that particular bridge.
> 
> But that's just me. There are people that I think would never cheat under any circumstance, it just violates a core moral principle.
> 
> But I think for many others it's just a case of being able to easily say it without having to ever go through some of these circumstances. That doesn't excuse the cheating, and of course many people cheat while in good, healthy marriages, too.


I have been in the long term sexless marrige, though four years is not quite the 20 you suggested  I did not cheat, though I had opportunity. I suppose I should not say there is no possible way I am capable of cheating, but rather, I have never had that perfect storm of circumstances happen where I would, and could not even begin to tell you what those circumstances would have to be.


----------



## samyeagar

Coffee Amore said:


> Honestly why are you taking potshots at other people? Aren't you the one who is about to marry a woman who slept with her own stepson?


And looking back at it, how is the situation I layed out not a legitimate couter situation to the exact definition laid out?


----------



## sinnister

Another Planet said:


> Yeah for unhealthy minds. It is all right there for you, everything it's there for you to take. You make the decision to do right or wrong... you would obviously do the wrong.
> 
> Another justifier! We live in a civilized world dude everything you want at your fingertips, it's up to you to get what you want. And you are cool with being a cheat and a liar.


Clearly that went way over your head. I'm not justifying anything. I'm saying acting morally superior when never having been faced with difficult decisions is presumptuous and arrogant. Kind of like your reply.


----------



## Coffee Amore

samyeagar said:


> And you say I'm taking a pot shot?
> 
> And yes, I am marrying a woman who slept with her step son.
> 
> I do think this post does cross a line considering what is being discussed in this thread. Your responses to this point have been very condecending, this however is nothing but an attempt to be directly and personally hurtful.


I don't see it crossing a line. Sandc got called out on this thread for his posts about his relationship with his spouse. It was something he posted on TAM. I'm merely mentioning something you also posted on TAM. 

I just find it ironic that people who joke, jest with spouses in lighthearted fun about celebrities and a "what-if" scenario are given moral lessons but sleeping with a family member is given a pass. 

I'll drop it but I find it odd and worth mentioning in the context of YOU calling others out in a personal way.


----------



## Healer

sinnister said:


> Every man here would cheat given the right circumstance.


LOL. Sorry, but this statement is asinine and utterly untrue. What are the right circumstances?

The chance to do it with never being caught? Beautiful, willing women? The time and place to do it? No strings attached?

Guess what? I had ALL of those circumstances time and time again, and I never cheated. 

So the statement that "Every man here would cheat given the right circumstance" is complete bull****. Just because YOU are capable of being an unfaithful POS doesn't mean all men are.

Nice try though.


----------



## Healer

sinnister said:


> Clearly that went way over your head. I'm not justifying anything. I'm saying acting morally superior when never having been faced with difficult decisions is presumptuous and arrogant. Kind of like your reply.


No, what's arrogant is you claiming anyone would cheat under the right circumstances. Speak for yourself, not all of mankind.


----------



## samyeagar

Coffee Amore said:


> I don't see it crossing a line. Sandc got called out on this thread for his posts about his relationship with his spouse. It was something he posted on TAM. I'm merely mentioning something you also posted on TAM.
> 
> I just find it ironic that people who joke, jest with spouses in lighthearted fun about celebrities and a "what-if" scenario are given moral lessons but sleeping with a family member is given a pass.
> 
> I'll drop it but I find it odd and worth mentioning in the context of YOU calling others out in a personal way.


Go back and read please. I did not call him out at all. I was not the one who brought his past situation up, nor have I been giving moral lessons. I didn't even address his situation at all other than to say I didn't recall infidelity another poster seemed to remember, and to each their own. I addressed his specific definition of cheating, and the broader idea of infidelity. You are the one being condecending and launching personal attacks against me.

So please tell me again why you are targeting me in this?


----------



## doubletrouble

la la la la la la la la laaaa

Cheating is bad. 
Not cheating is good. 

Right?

Yet it appears the 20 year sexless, non-loving marriage (20 years no sex = no deep, committed love, to me) is a line for some folks. Not saying everyone would cross the line at 20. Maybe 10? Maybe 25? Some never will, and my moral hat's off to them. 

I was in a 19 year sexless marriage and crossed the physical line. And she was OK with it, because she was more into women anyway. 

Would I cross the line again, these days? I wouldn't. I'd leave the relationship, based on its own lack of merit, before I'd jump in the next bed. There are a lot of women out there. I want THE woman.


----------



## Healer

If you're in a long term sexless marriage, leave.

It's simple - there's a right and a wrong way to deal with a bad marriage. Cheating is the wrong way. It's easier, and more fun, but it's wrong.

There's ALWAYS a choice. Cheating is ONE of the choices.


----------



## doubletrouble

In a lot of ways, cheating is not easier, nor is it more fun. There's an element of risk, if that's what gets you off. But it starts with a lie, is fed by lies, and eventually dies when the truth comes out. 

Any relationship based on lies is not one.


----------



## samyeagar

Coffee Amore said:


> I don't see it crossing a line. Sandc got called out on this thread for his posts about his relationship with his spouse. It was something he posted on TAM. I'm merely mentioning something you also posted on TAM.
> 
> I just find it ironic that people who joke, jest with spouses in lighthearted fun about celebrities and a "what-if" scenario are given moral lessons but sleeping with a family member is given a pass.
> 
> I'll drop it but I find it odd and worth mentioning in the context of YOU calling others out in a personal way.


Thinking about it more, it really does seem that you are picking out a particularly hurtful thing that I have brought up here on TAM, and it does not even contextually fit anywhere in this discussion. It really seems like you did it for no other reason than to be purposefully hurtful, and that is not very nice.


----------



## doubletrouble

Ha ha... any relationship based on lies is not one... except the one my fWW had with POSOM. 

That was way too real for me.


----------



## Healer

doubletrouble said:


> In a lot of ways, cheating is not easier, nor is it more fun. There's an element of risk, if that's what gets you off. But it starts with a lie, is fed by lies, and eventually dies when the truth comes out.
> 
> Any relationship based on lies is not one.


People don't have sex with someone other than their spouse out of duty, obligation, etc.

People do it because of the rush, the high, the excitement, the pleasure...all AKA "fun".


----------



## samyeagar

Healer said:


> People don't have sex with someone other than their spouse out of duty, obligation, etc.
> 
> People do it because of the rush, the high, the excitement, the pleasure...all AKA "fun".


SOME people...just like some people get a rush out of roller coasters, sky diving, driving really fast, and it terrifies others.

Personally, there would be no rush, high, excitement in cheating. I would feel like, well, a cheat


----------



## SimplyAmorous

sinnister said:


> Every man here would cheat given the right circumstance. It's like saying I would never steal. Ya...maybe not now. In your current situation but starve for a few days and see if you don't steal some bread. Have any kids? Watch them go hungry and see if you don't steal to feed them if you couldnt get the money to buy food. If you couldnt just go to a shelter.
> 
> *People on forums can say whatever the heck the want to say. Nobody to verify and every body wants to sound morally sanctified. The truth about humans says otherwise. Take away any of the basic necessities of life that we take for granted and we are capable of anything*.





> *Maricha75 said*: So, does that mean you have reached your breaking point? Unless I have you confused with someone else, I believe you are having.... problems.... with your wife... meaning sexless/nearly sexless. Has this continued? And, have you reached that breaking point that you have been with another woman?
> 
> *I'm sorry, but your assessment of "everyone" is dead wrong. Some will not succumb to that temptation, no matter what is thrown at them. It's because they have the integrity to do the right thing. *Unless I am mistaken, I swear you have spoken up for NOT cheating...so this really does surprise me.... but maybe I have you confused with someone else. *Regardless, I stand by my words: not everyone will cheat*.


I don't have any doubts that there are people like You Maricha75 who , even if you were sexless for 10 yrs and your husand was in a coma and Ryan Gosling was leading you to the bedroom, you wouldn't budge, your faithfulness would hold you like an Anchor.. Such people exist in this life...

Actually I feel my husband IS one of those types.. but ME.. I can more so relate to Sinnister's post -why I gave him a LIKE......I am very in touch with my needs.. 

I do believe a desert drought... add a perfect storm could overtake me.. I am not made of Iron... I have weaknesses... It's very important to NOT put ourselves in situations if a breach has erupted in our marriages.. 

Though I would still say, I am very unlikely to be a Cheater... ....if I was ever heading down a road where this was even a remote possibility... there would be so much talk, poured out emotion, anger...sheer frustration to my needs.... I would plaster it on the walls, raise the roof off the house ...I'd even spell it out to him where I was headed...I don't do resentment or silent suffering well ... 

I guess my point in this post is... I really don't see that just because one does FALL ... and I say this...never having done it myself... (But really I owe so much to my wonderful husband).... Yet I can have compassion for those in a fvcked up situation who might actually fall.... I just CAN'T see it all as so black and white.. every situation has it's own scales... .... I am not one to STONE immediately... give me the story 1st...

I felt a fire under me reading this man's fight to remain faithful.... a Christian Husband no less, I could not help but speak out for the injustice done to him - by HIS rejecting WIFE....if someone like this FALLS.. I am sorry.... I have compassion.... Judge me.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relationships-spirituality/42433-lonliness-pornography-affair.html

Ya know. I feel a sexless marriage is just as much a betrayal of the vows over someone falling into the arms of another....but that is just me.. it's OK.. my husband knows all about my twisted mind on this.. .he understands it also....


----------



## Healer

samyeagar said:


> SOME people...just like some people get a rush out of roller coasters, sky diving, driving really fast, and it terrifies others.
> 
> Personally, there would be no rush, high, excitement in cheating. I would feel like, well, a cheat


So you haven't cheated?

So some people cheat because it makes them miserable? It's duty? Obligation? Like taking out the garbage or going to the dentist?

Makes no sense. "I really hate doing this, but it'll destroy my family, my spouse, my integrity, my character...so I better do it, even though I REALLY don't want to." :scratchhead:


----------



## doubletrouble

Yeah my W said something vaguely about her cheating was she felt obliged to go to bed with him. Habit or whatever. Eff that. 

If that's the case, then I stayed faithful out of habit. Try that one on.


----------



## samyeagar

Healer said:


> People don't have sex with someone other than their spouse out of duty, obligation, etc.
> 
> *People do it because of the rush, the high, the excitement, the pleasure...all AKA "fun*".





Healer said:


> So you haven't cheated?
> 
> So some people cheat because it makes them miserable? It's duty? Obligation? Like taking out the garbage or going to the dentist?
> 
> Makes no sense. "I really hate doing this, but it'll destroy my family, my spouse, my integrity, my character...so I better do it, even though I REALLY don't want to." :scratchhead:


This was the part I was addressing. I think people cheat for reasons other than just the rush high excitement and fun. Surely those are sufficient motivations for some people, but I also think that people can cheat for a whole bunch of other reasons such as feeling hurt ignored, alienated by their spouse, and it's not thrill seeking at all, and those don't get that rush out of it.

I was in a marriage where the final four years were completely sexless, and I did not cheat. I have never cheated in any relationship I have been in.


----------



## Healer

samyeagar said:


> This was the part I was addressing. I think people cheat for reasons other than just the rush high excitement and fun. Surely those are sufficient motivations for some people, but I also think that people can cheat for a whole bunch of other reasons such as feeling hurt ignored, alienated by their spouse, and it's not thrill seeking at all, and those don't get that rush out of it.
> 
> I was in a marriage where the final four years were completely sexless, and I did not cheat. I have never cheated in any relationship I have been in.


Good on you for being faithful.

Maybe "fun" isn't the right word - but there HAS to be some enjoyment, pleasure, whatever you want to call it for them to do it.

But what do I know, I've never cheated and I don't understand people who do.


----------



## sandc

samyeagar said:


> So just for clarification here...if you said "Honey, I'm going over to that waitresses house tonight, and am going to bang her brains out." Since you were not deceptive, it is not cheating even though your wife says no way in hell?


No, it would be adultery or infidelity. I wouldn't call it cheating. To me cheating implies deception. 

Look, you can label me whatever you want. I'm done trying to explain myself.


----------



## sandc

samyeagar said:


> Go back and read please. I did not call him out at all. I was not the one who brought his past situation up, nor have I been giving moral lessons. I didn't even address his situation at all other than to say I didn't recall infidelity another poster seemed to remember, and to each their own. I addressed his specific definition of cheating, and the broader idea of infidelity. You are the one being condecending and launching personal attacks against me.
> 
> So please tell me again why you are targeting me in this?


I did feel as though you were calling me out. You seem to want me to admit to something.

Since I'm the one being discussed here.


----------



## samyeagar

sandc said:


> No, it would be adultery or infidelity. I wouldn't call it cheating. To me cheating implies deception.
> 
> Look, you can label me whatever you want. I'm done trying to explain myself.


So where did I label you ANYTHING, and where did I call you out? Reference posts please.

You said to you, cheating implies deception, so I gave you a scenario with no deception, and did not even tie it back to your situation. You did that in response to what another poster said. Not me. I didn't even bring up your situation AT ALL!

Other posters went far deeper into your situation than I did, and other posters and I continued to discuss the issue in a broader sense than your specific case without even bringing you into it.


----------



## sandc

Fair enough. Dropped.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

samyeagar said:


> I was in a marriage where the final four years were completely sexless, and I did not cheat.


I don't think the majority would be able to handle this without it destroying their spirit and feeling like their life blood was sucked from them...depression, feeling worthless, unloved, unwanted, undesired.. .if they cared anything for intimacy ......Stories like yours is why Divorce is a blessing!

... I would literally want to kill my spouse If I was in a marriage like that....Resentment would consume me. ...I would be no good for anyone in my life ...including my children.

I don't think I would even want to be So perfect that I never had a straying thought.. ... I look more at the heart. When you love, you don't want to hurt, but sometimes people get blinded....they start feeling like a burden to keep asking...Desire is a very delicate thing, we don't want to beg for it, it comes off pathetic & can further push a spouse away... 

When a couple overcomes in this ...as you have SandC & Caramel... I applaud you...as so many never recover.


----------



## samyeagar

samyeagar said:


> *In response to CM:*
> 
> Again, I understand hat you are saying, and your reasoning. I know it is something some couples delve into, and like you, no way is it for me. I am not passing judgement on those who choose that lifestyle either. They can do what they want in their mariages.
> 
> I guess I am simply pointing out symantics. If the marriage vows they took included forsaking all others, then by definition, even if they give permission, the marital contract is still technicaly broken, even if they agree not to enforce it.





samyeagar said:


> *In response, and defense of you:*
> 
> yep. To each their own  I didn't think you guys had been through infidelity...






sandc said:


> *Fair enough. Dropped*.


Agreed, but I would like to say that I still stand behind what I said earlier, and quoted above, in this thread in response to you and others.


----------



## samyeagar

SimplyAmorous said:


> *I don't think the majority would be able to handle this without it destroying their spirit and feeling like their life blood was sucked from them...depression, feeling worthless, unloved, unwanted, undesired.. .if they cared anything for intimacy ......Stories like yours is why Divorce is a blessing!*
> 
> ... I would literally want to kill my spouse If I was in a marriage like that....Resentment would consume me. ...I would be no good for anyone in my life ...including my children.
> 
> I don't think I would even want to be So perfect that I never had a straying thought.. ... I look more at the heart. When you love, you don't want to hurt, but sometimes people get blinded....they start feeling like a burden to keep asking...Desire is a very delicate thing, we don't want to beg for it, it comes off pathetic & can further push a spouse away...
> 
> When a couple overcomes in this ...as you have SandC & Caramel... I applaud you...as so many never recover.


The sexlessness was just a symptom of the larger issues with her being NPD. I think one of the reasons I didn't cheat was because I was already spending so much emotional energy just trying to hold on what little shreds of humanity I could, there was nothing left.


----------



## Maricha75

SA, I am not some paragon of virtue. My reason for even coming to TAM attests to that. I have not been totally faithful in my marriage. I have never had sex with anyone other than my husband since we met, but it doesn't mean I have been totally faithful. That is because of "inappropriate friendships" as one person put it earlier in this thread. I have had opportunities, but I couldn't cross the line to physical infidelity. Still, whether it is physical or not, I view it as cheating... for MY marriage. Which is how I stated it in the first place on here, but it was, apparently, lost in translation. 


Do I understand why someone would FEEL that is the only thing to do in a bad marriage? Of course I do. Does that mean I AGREE that it is the right/best option? No. Some things, I DO see as black and white... in part, at least, due to having "been there" in some aspect... even if it wasn't from a 20 year sexless marriage. So, in that respect, you are correct... if my husband were still alive, but in a coma, no, I would not budge, even if Ryan Gosling were trying to lead me to the bedroom.


----------



## Lyris

Cheating/infidelity/adultery - it's all semantics.

If my husband was searching swinger sites and trying to coerce me into having threesomes and foursomes, I would view it as a betrayal. It would, in fact, be a betrayal of the love and commitment between us. 

Whether or not it was an open betrayal is immaterial. I'm glad things have worked out for you and caramel, Sandc. I don't think my marriage could recover from the situations you have described. Christ or no Christ.


----------



## samyeagar

Lyris said:


> Cheating/infidelity/adultery - it's all semantics.
> 
> If my husband was searching swinger sites and trying to coerce me into having threesomes and foursomes, I would view it as a betrayal. It would, in fact, be a betrayal of the love and commitment between us.
> 
> Whether or not it was an open betrayal is immaterial. I'm glad things have worked out for you and caramel, Sandc. I don't think my marriage could recover from the situations you have described. Christ or no Christ.


How DARE you give moral lessons, and call people out, and point out semantics!


----------



## Lyris

FWIW I don't put myself in the category of 'never cheat no matter what'.

It's very unlikely but not impossible. So I pay a lot of attention to defending my marriage by keeping it happy and keeping my boundaries firm.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I don't think this thread is particularly beneficial since it appears to be created to pick fights. Whether the OP has an inclination to not trust men in general or whether she has has a problem with the way some of the men on TAM can come across as sanctimonious is unknown. I think the majority of males and females out in the real world do have within them to cheat given the right combination of circumstances and environment. I think what we are seeing here is a group of good posters who are bickering over something silly.

Regarding this question as it pertains to me, I'd like to say that I'd never cheat. But in reality, I don't know if I ever would or not. I'm secure enough to admit that I'm not perfect and that I am susceptible to screwing up. Does that mean that I'll just sit by and resign myself to my "fate"? Of course not. Even though I really don't know if I would or not, it doesn't mean that I won't and will work hard to prevent it from happening.


----------



## sammy3

SimplyAmorous said:


> I do not believe my husband would, you'd just have to know the man... He was far more patient than I would have been -when he wasn't getting enough sex... Heck I would have raised the roof off the house in comparison... He waited yrs for intercourse while dating... I think it's safe to say...he is simply not the type...he never had a desire to have sex with someone he was not in love with, it's not a part of who he is or how he conducts himself...
> 
> I really do trust him with my life, our family...he is a man of his word...
> 
> Now if he wasn't getting ANYTHING at home (never going to happen), she was a Beauty, she came on to him...pulled him upstairs, maybe hes a little drunk (he doesn't do bars)...but then he is paranoid about STD's, this is what runs through his mind when he looks at Hot women... thinking ...."STD's, I love my wife, STD's, I love my kids" and the fantasy is over... but if he was half raped, he might give in...
> 
> Hardly worried about these things ...I don't think my husband is the norm by any means ....



Gosh.... I said these same words... 

~sammy


----------



## AZman

I travel for work, and have had a few opportunities. Several that I know would never ever get back to my wife. I have never taken the opportunity and don't see that changing. Despite what my W has put me through at times, I still haven't "stepped out." I have had opportunities while I was drinking, tired, unhappy, in other states, not getting much attention from my spouse (I thing those are the main excuses people use) and never had an issue.

To all that hypothetical situation stuff, the odds I am going to wake up to Scarlett Johansen or Selma Hayek is about as likely as me winning the Powerball and MegaMillions the same week LOL, so I don't think about that crap.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

catfan said:


> I've seen them, not towards me though, including my father. To me, men around me seem to be hormone figures, no honor at all. Why, I don't know, other women seem to deserve respect. I give respect as I get it: none by now. I'm not good enough? Same back ...





catfan said:


> Men can't love, just lust.


My wife and I like to walk along the beach and collect rocks. We're going to make a table out of all of the interesting rocks we've found.

She finds all sorts of interesting rocks of varying shapes, colors, textures etc. I seem to always gravitate to similar ones, smooth with some translucence. I do find varying colors, but my brain is thinking of the end game (the table) so, without trying, I gravitate to a certain type of rock.

You're statements are both sad and INSANELY inaccurate. People need to realize, when it comes to sex, men and women are much more similar than they want to believe. We shape a perception of the other gender to suit ourselves. 

You've obviously been hurt and have had bad relationships. But you're limiting your ability to find someone. You think men aren't honorable and they're not capable of love...Guess what kind of man you're going to find....one who's not honorable or capable of love.

Your perceptions are what is killing you, not men. 

I truly believe you find men in equal portions of the first three. Then you have the fourth, which is where, in my opinion, the majority of men fall.

You have the players (the ones who fit your description)
You have the ignorers (the ones who, gradually stop paying attention to you and your needs)
You have the lovers (the ones who keep showing you love throughout the marriage and are truly dedicated no matter what you do)

You have the responders (these are the ones who give what they get. If you're loving, sexual, loyal and fun...so are they. But if you nitpick, not compliment, stop doing the little things....so do they)


----------



## jld

Good post, Dad&Hubby.

Tip, catfan: Look for the lovers.


----------



## catfan

*Re: Re: "I would never cheat" - TAMM*



Dad&Hubby said:


> My wife and I like to walk along the beach and collect rocks. We're going to make a table out of all of the interesting rocks we've found.
> 
> She finds all sorts of interesting rocks of varying shapes, colors, textures etc. I seem to always gravitate to similar ones, smooth with some translucence. I do find varying colors, but my brain is thinking of the end game (the table) so, without trying, I gravitate to a certain type of rock.
> 
> You're statements are both sad and INSANELY inaccurate. People need to realize, when it comes to sex, men and women are much more similar than they want to believe. We shape a perception of the other gender to suit ourselves.
> 
> You've obviously been hurt and have had bad relationships. But you're limiting your ability to find someone. You think men aren't honorable and they're not capable of love...Guess what kind of man you're going to find....one who's not honorable or capable of love.
> 
> Your perceptions are what is killing you, not men.
> 
> I truly believe you find men in equal portions of the first three. Then you have the fourth, which is where, in my opinion, the majority of men fall.
> 
> You have the players (the ones who fit your description)
> You have the ignorers (the ones who, gradually stop paying attention to you and your needs)
> You have the lovers (the ones who keep showing you love throughout the marriage and are truly dedicated no matter what you do)
> 
> You have the responders (these are the ones who give what they get. If you're loving, sexual, loyal and fun...so are they. But if you nitpick, not compliment, stop doing the little things....so do they)


Thx for the reply Dad&hubby, a reaction from a caring husband makes me feel a bit better about men  

My boyfriend and me live together for almost 3 years now. I think I do have a lover-type, but sometimes he is more a responder.

Our relationship just started out very bad, long distance online, with his FWB messing us up and he letting her hurt us/ me. This still bothers me every day. I don't dare to trust him, any man actually.

Trust is a big issue to me...bad experiences and our history made me very insecure.

Anyhow, thanks for your reaction.


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## Dad&Hubby

catfan said:


> Thx for the reply Dad&hubby, a reaction from a caring husband makes me feel a bit better about men
> 
> My boyfriend and me live together for almost 3 years now. I think I do have a lover-type, but sometimes he is more a responder.
> 
> Our relationship just started out very bad, long distance online, with his FWB messing us up and he letting her hurt us/ me. This still bothers me every day. I don't dare to trust him, any man actually.
> 
> Trust is a big issue to me...bad experiences and our history made me very insecure.
> 
> Anyhow, thanks for your reaction.


Trust is a very difficult issue. Once it's broken, it's hard to get back. For some, they can assign that to one person, for others the lack of trust can be against an entire group of people.

Your lack of trust in men is the same as if someone was mugged by a different racial group and from that day forward they don't trust anyone from that group.

I would highly recommend some individual counseling. Don't look at it as you're broken or something is drastically wrong with you. IC is something that can help an already stable, productive person address a few things inside of themselves that they struggle with.

I actually believe that everyone should see an IC at least a few times. Every single person has some kind of issue, addressing them is always a benefit.

Holding onto old hurts can never be helpful. I hope you find the peace to move past it (coupled with your BF HELPING you get past it.)


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## jld

Catfan, are you as honest and open as possible with your SO? This tends to build trust. 

If he cannot handle an increasing amount of transparency, he may not be the best one for you.


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## catfan

*Re: Re: "I would never cheat" - TAMM*



Dad&Hubby said:


> Trust is a very difficult issue. Once it's broken, it's hard to get back. For some, they can assign that to one person, for others the lack of trust can be against an entire group of people.
> 
> Your lack of trust in men is the same as if someone was mugged by a different racial group and from that day forward they don't trust anyone from that group.
> 
> I would highly recommend some individual counseling. Don't look at it as you're broken or something is drastically wrong with you. IC is something that can help an already stable, productive person address a few things inside of themselves that they struggle with.
> 
> I actually believe that everyone should see an IC at least a few times. Every single person has some kind of issue, addressing them is always a benefit.
> 
> Holding onto old hurts can never be helpful. I hope you find the peace to move past it (coupled with your BF HELPING you get past it.)


Yes, old hurts stop me from trusting. Currently I'm in therapy for that, according to my therapist the automatic thoughts can be replaced, but it needs a lot of time and practise. 

Reading this forum and being with my therapy group, hearing other people's stories helps a lot too  

I realise more and more I think through my old patterns and have to let them go.
TC and thx


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## catfan

*Re: Re: "I would never cheat" - TAMM*



jld said:


> Catfan, are you as honest and open as possible with your SO? This tends to build trust.
> 
> If he cannot handle an increasing amount of transparency, he may not be the best one for you.


 I think I'm too honest and open often, I'm an emotional and direct person... He is kinda introvert, but most of the time we compensate each other.


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## vellocet

Anonymous Person said:


> I hear many men on this forum say they wouldn't cheat, but I'm not sure I believe all of you.
> 
> There have to be situations where you'd cheat, at least some of you.
> 
> If you were out of country, alone with 3 supermodels for the week, I'd think most of you would do it.


No, wouldn't do it if I'm in love with someone else. Simple as that. When I'm in love with someone else, I cherish the earth she walks on.

But if you truly feel this way, then it has to be because you would cheat if given the opportunity and you can't believe that someone else would be able to refrain if you can't.


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## love=pain

Couldn't guarantee anything I would like to think I would stand by my vows.
A few years ago before she cheated I would tell you nothing would happen, I was in a few spots where there was temptation and I got the hell out of there asap. It's no excuse regardless of her actions I don't have any right and I would hate myself later.(guess that's what all cheaters say)

I used to joke that even if I cheated in the middle of the desert hundreds of miles from any living soul with an alien that I promptly killed and buried in that desert after my wife would still find out.


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## Dad&Hubby

I can honestly say I would never cheat. My first marriage was one of those "set of circumstances". Sexless, loveless, no respect, not even good roommates. She was cheating. I was being pursued by a couple women at work.

I went a year and a half without sex. I had AMPLE opportunity, including being cornered in the conference room by a 24 year old "9". I didn't stray, I didn't even take a moment to consider straying. 

I divorced her. I wouldn't have sex with someone while being married...period.


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