# Its me again! Wife had EA and no longer wants sex



## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

So I wrote a detailed explanation of everything that's going on under another thread... But for this one I'm going to ask more specific questions to hopefully get more specific answers.. Is it possible for intimacy to come back after a serious arguement and an EA? We argued and some harsh things were said.. and my wife shut down emotionally and physically.. Well not physically at first.. Sex continued for a few weeks after the arguement then hit a sudden stop... That's when I found out about the EA... This was about 4 months ago... At first it was so bad I couldn't even touch her.. Even a hand on her shoulder would cause her to flinch... 
Since then the touching has improved %100... We began sleeping in the same bed again... At first she would wear a shirt... Then she went back to sleeping nude.. Although I'm still "not allowed" to see her uncovered... And also she isn't comfortable kissing yet... 
She gave me the whole "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech and brought up divorce between the arguement and me finding out about her EA.. Once I found out she kind of changed her tune.. At least with the divorce part.. She still claims to only feel like we are friends now but is willing to try and get it back...
I guess what I'm asking is... Should I see these small steps as hope? Is her head still stuck in the affair? Should I press her to change her job if it's going to work (the affair was with her boss)? And is it possible for intimacy to return once a woman feels this way? Also.. Do you see space/separation being beneficial? During the arguement she went on about how she doesn't know who she is and wants time alone... Any chance that is sincere or is it just an excuse to try and get away with cheating? 
For what it's worth we are highschool sweethearts.. Started dating at 15.. Dated for 8 years and have been married for an additional 3... Also sex has always been a strong part of our relationship.. It was constant, exciting, and we were always both satisfied.
Odd situation I know... You would think it would be me pushing her away since she had the affair... I do still love her and want it to work.. but it seems like since she said she doesn't love me anymore.. That it's all up to me to get her back... I don't know if those small steps she has made actually mean anything for us.. The only positive I'm holding on to is that she is no longer talking divorce.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think it's possible, but unlikely.
I'm also thinking that a separation is doom for the marriage, which is almost surely gone anyway.
If she leaves, she won't be back for a couple or a few years.
I do think that with this much history with her, it's likely that in a few years, she will probably want to return--- you'll have moved on. She may very well have found someone else in those years as well.

The one thing you should do is stop freaking caring, stop pursuing, stop letting her know you want her sexually. That guarantees you won't get any.
This will do two things: if you don't care anymore, you can move on easier if you divorce.
it will also serve the possibility of building her attraction for you once she can tell you DGAF and she doesn''t feel any pressure. In time, she may see your good qualities again and fall back in love with you. I do think that can happen, it's just that most guys (like me) can't just stop caring and move on in their mind. But I truly think that's what you have to do to have any hope of fixing this. People are weird. Chase them and they'll run. Run away and they'll chase. It's stupid, but that's how it works.
GOod luck. I personally think she's just using you because you provide a stable environment before she leaves.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

180


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I haven't followed your threads, but how do you know she isn't having a physical affair? Generally, when sex stops suddenly it means that the spouse is getting it elsewhere.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> I haven't followed your threads, but how do you know she isn't having a physical affair? Generally, when sex stops suddenly it means that the spouse is getting it elsewhere.


based on the texts ive read... they were set to "finally" meet up for the first time just a few days after when i discovered them... she said since then he has been giving her the cold shoulder.. (out of fear that I will cause him to lose his job) which i found to be true when i was able to get back on her phone.. lots of messages from her (all work related) and barely anything from him.. just an occasional "thanks" after every 3-4 from her... and they were worried about being seen by people from work when they were meeting.. which to me means there was no flirting or inappropriate conversations/activities while at work... the affair was strictly through text..... oh and her idea for separation is to have 1-2 date nights per week


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

allnamesaretaken said:


> *She still claims to only feel like we are friends now but is willing to try and get it back...*
> I guess what I'm asking is... Should I see these small steps as hope? Is her head still stuck in the affair?


Regardless of what your problems are/were, as long as BOTH of you are willing to work on things *THAT* is what is important. Expect things to take a year or more to begin to show significant results, as a great deal of personal development is needed for the two of you that will continue to make things feel uncomfortable for quite a while as you each resist the needed changes you will have to make to move forwards. 

Personal changes might include that understanding what you need to feel loved is something that hurts the relationship and originates from a lack of self confidence. Then you have to work on your self confidence and come to terms that if your wife does not "feel loving" towards you but is willing to work on it, that her doing that should be more than enough to work with. You also need to resist the urge to prove how much you love her, but instead build your self confidence, help her work on building hers, and then work mostly on just trying to find things that are fun to do together. These "fun things" can include remodeling part of the house to give the gesture that you care about your home that the two of you have built together. 

One other neat thing to do is to try and find ways to help promote personal change and personal growth. One notable business man did this by wearing his watch on the opposite wrist to serve as a constant reminder to try and start doing things differently and to try new things. I have personally found that the experience of staying at a nice hotel while on vacation is reinvigorating, mostly because everything "smells" different. You can accomplish this same effect in your own home by changing every brand of soap and detergent to a new one that you have never tried before. Each time you buy deodorant, change brands. Each time you buy shampoo, change brands. Each time you buy fabric softener, change brands. Each time you buy bath soap, change brands. The next thing you know, each day will have a new and fresh smell, which will help things feel new and put you in the frame of mind that you are putting old bad habits and the rut your marriage was in behind you. 

Hope that helps, 
Badsanta


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think it's really dependent on how much the person it willing to deal with. From what I have read though, I'm not sure there is much left to salvage and whether you can trust her that something like this won't happen again.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

This is not so much about her, as it about you. About you doing what's needed to get what you want, not her deciding what you'll get. 

This is for you... No More Mr. Nice Guy, Dr. Robert Glover

Hold on to Your NUTs, Wayne M. Levine


Best


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

let me get this straights , she has the affair, gives you a lot of crap and now she gets to make the rules....screw that...this is when you put your foot down and tell her how it will work of she can move out for good.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

allnamesaretaken said:


> So I wrote a detailed explanation of everything that's going on under another thread... But for this one I'm going to ask more specific questions to hopefully get more specific answers.. Is it possible for intimacy to come back after a serious arguement and an EA? We argued and some harsh things were said.. and my wife shut down emotionally and physically.. Well not physically at first.. Sex continued for a few weeks after the arguement then hit a sudden stop... That's when I found out about the EA... This was about 4 months ago... At first it was so bad I couldn't even touch her.. Even a hand on her shoulder would cause her to flinch...
> Since then the touching has improved %100... We began sleeping in the same bed again... At first she would wear a shirt... Then she went back to sleeping nude.. Although I'm still "not allowed" to see her uncovered... And also she isn't comfortable kissing yet...
> She gave me the whole "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech and brought up divorce between the arguement and me finding out about her EA.. Once I found out she kind of changed her tune.. At least with the divorce part.. She still claims to only feel like we are friends now but is willing to try and get it back...
> I guess what I'm asking is... Should I see these small steps as hope? Is her head still stuck in the affair? Should I press her to change her job if it's going to work (the affair was with her boss)? And is it possible for intimacy to return once a woman feels this way? Also.. Do you see space/separation being beneficial? During the arguement she went on about how she doesn't know who she is and wants time alone... Any chance that is sincere or is it just an excuse to try and get away with cheating?
> ...


What are you two doing to improve the marriage? Have you read His Needs Her Needs together? Have you filled out the Emotional Needs and Love Busters questionnaires so that you both know how to please the other and what bad things to avoid? Are you spending 10 to 15 hours a week together doing the things you did when you were dating? Are you having a 'state of the marriage' meeting every month to safely discuss how it's going and how it can be improved? Have you apologized for what you said and asked her how you can make up for it? Do you brag about her to other people? Do you talk regularly about everything under the sun, so that you get to know each other better (the new, adult versions)?

There are many ways to come back to that point. But it takes work.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Let me understand this. You and your wife have a bad relationship. You are bullying and she shuts down and cheats and lies to you. Why are you asking about intimacy when there are other major issues to resolve.

You need to get this through your head - your wife was about to *fvck another man *…… who is married ……. who has a baby on the way. So lets leave aside for the time being what kind of man the POSOM is, and lets focus on WHAT THE HELL KIND OF WOMAN IS YOUR WIFE ? She was willing to not only decimate her marriage but that of a young couple with a kid on the way!!!!! Do you want to stay married to someone like this ?!?!?!?

She has demonstrated a complete lack of morals leave alone deceitfulness, disrespect, cheating etc

And I really, really hope that you have told the poor OMW!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You'll get better advice if you stick with one thread.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

WorkingOnMe said:


> You'll get better advice if you stick with one thread.


In the other thread I may have put too much out there.. there was too much to respond to and the few pieces I wanted addressed were being overlooked


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don't think your wife wants a separation for the purpose of rebuilding the relationship---- NOBODY wants to do that.

Women want a "separation" and "date night" for only one reason: to cake eat. Yes, She'll be looking or finding other men a few days a week, spending an evening with you for conscience purposes. The dates with you will begin to get cancelled until they no longer happen, and you'll see the other man around more and more. Very simple.

You really need to realize that once a woman falls out of love--- it's unlikely it's coming back.
You're way better off divorcing her. File now. Don't wait, that's self-destructive. Get on with your life without her and with someone else that has respect and love for you. Does that sound all that bad? Surely not.

Living with a woman that won't have sex with you, doesn't love you, and surely doesn't respect you--- yeah, that sounds BAD.

Bite the bullet and divorce her. You can always change your mind before or after the divorce. But you won't, because she won't.
Sorry,
It's the way things are. Accept it. You'll be better off.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> I haven't followed your threads, but how do you know she isn't having a physical affair? Generally, when sex stops suddenly it means that the spouse is getting it elsewhere.


This unfortunately is very true


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If they work together or have contact the affair is ongoing. She wants a separation to spend it with her lover. You aren't getting any because she isn't going to cheat on him. You don't count.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

Quick question about this weekend... She was going to leave the state (just about a 2 hour drive) to spend it with her brother and his friends because he always throws a big party around this time of year.. We've known it was coming and it was understood that I was sitting this year out due to circumstances.. She just told me if I want to accompany her... That I can go... Should I take this as progress and go try to have a good time.. Or use this to implement the not caring anymore strategy and tell her I'm going out with friends instead?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Your passivity makes you look weak, pathetic, and needy.

You're like a stray dog following her around begging her for a pat on the head. That is SO unattractive.

This is what she's learned about you - she can cheat on you, lie to your face, disrespect you to the *core*, act as though you've got the plague because she's now repulsed by your touch, treat you like you're a non-entity, tell you she's no longer in love with you - and there you are, begging for crumbs from her and seeing some piteous afterthought of an invitation for you to go to her brother's as some kind of 'progress.'

You've swallowed your pride and your dignity and have become this sniveling little emotional mess who has absolutely *no* power at ALL over your situation. You've allowed yourself to be treated like sh*t every single day and let HER call all the shots because you're so damned afraid to lose this supposed prize that you married. 

So very, very unattractive.

You can call me 'mean' all you want. It doesn't change the *truth*.

You need to man the hell up, find your pride, find your dignity, and stop cowering in fear and helplessness while she walks all over you and tells YOU how things are going to go. You're doing the "pick me!" dance and it's about the most degrading and humiliating thing a BS can do.

Just stop it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Your passivity makes you look weak, pathetic, and needy.
> 
> You're like a stray dog following her around begging her for a pat on the head. That is SO unattractive.
> 
> ...


Please tell us what you really think, SSGI. 

Just giving you a hard time. You make great, spirited posts. 

OP, please consider what she is saying here. It could help you.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

allnamesaretaken said:


> Quick question about this weekend... She was going to leave the state (just about a 2 hour drive) to spend it with her brother and his friends because he always throws a big party around this time of year.. We've known it was coming and it was understood that I was sitting this year out due to circumstances.. She just told me if I want to accompany her... That I can go... Should I take this as progress and go try to have a good time.. Or use this to implement the not caring anymore strategy and tell her I'm going out with friends instead?


If you want to accompany her that you can go?

Where is your self-love in this?

This isn't humble and hoping if you accept... this is subservient, placing yourself in an extremely unmindful pecking order, no equal respect here.

Not knowing how much she shares with her brother or his friends, if they know anything it will be only what she has shared they will probably see you in many unkind ways... you will feel left out, one would expect she'll not fake the way she feels (and if she does, then she is playing you in a game of the worst way with worrisome motivations), and it will be painfully obvious where you stand in an element you will be unable to easily remove yourself from... this is a lose-lose scenario at best.

It seems you've lost the person you love and are willing to subjugate yourself to try to keep something, anything, grounded while chasing your self-respect all over the place trying to see if it will land again.

Funnily enough, the only way to get all things self again is to quit chasing them and be up front... unless she is willing to go to counseling you will have to make your own decisions and outcomes. Of course, this may not surprise her, you did essentially tell her you really didn't love her. 

Now you may really love her, but unfortunately when we send mixed messages, we don't get to choose which ones are believed.

Stop and breathe... you may think your approach is working, but I really wonder if you are seeing what you want, or the actual environment around you.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Your passivity makes you look weak, pathetic, and needy.
> 
> You're like a stray dog following her around begging her for a pat on the head. That is SO unattractive.
> 
> ...



OP, 

It's not so much how this might look to your wife, or anyone else. What's important is the effect it has on you -- how you feel about yourself, how willing you are able to look yourself in the eye and see yourself honestly and with acceptance.

The value of detaching from her, setting firm and clear boundaries and following through with consequences when she is outside the lines, is that you can independently have respect for yourself and continually define who you are -- that is, regardless of her choices.

It's true that happens to be more attractive (at least to would-be partners that are mentally healthy and mature, and capable of loving you back). But, that's not the main thing. (Not saying SSGI said that it was. Just thought it worth emphasizing.)


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Evinrude58 said:


> You really need to realize that once a woman falls out of love--- it's unlikely it's coming back.


If there's something I learned the hard way (and also didn't listen to when I first came here... in 2008), it's this.

FWIW, OP, my first marriage was similar to yours - dating since we were teenagers, together 7 years, then married. Right around year 3 of the marriage, things really took a turn for the worse, but it lasted another 4 after that. But - same issue as you, just took her longer to get to the point that your wife has gotten to. Or more likely, that much longer for her to find a man she would leave for  This was pre-smartphones and pre-Facebook and social media, so I didn't catch her the way you caught your wife. It was only speculation for me. She had a good life at that point, so leaving would have been detrimental to her in many ways, so she stuck around, despite her no longer loving me. C'est la vie. Once she found someone she'd actually leave for, and could provide her with a similar lifestyle, she did. Be lucky your wife is being upfront about her feelings now, rather than waiting for wholly selfish reasons.

So consider yourself lucky in that respect - at least your wife is calling it now, rather than stringing you along for several more years. Years that I can't get back.

The hardest part for me (and it will be for you, if it isn't already) is that the person you've known for so long, and knew when you and they were so young, is rejecting you in this way. Rejection isn't easy regardless of age, or how many years you've known someone, but when the starting point was 15, or 16 or 17 years old, and you've subsequently gone through high school, prom, college, and starting careers and moving out - all with each other - it makes it that much more difficult. How could the person you've spent, essentially, half your life with do this to you? All those monumental life stages? All those 'new' things, and adventures, and future plans that will no longer happen?

And given that you two were 15 when you started dating, it's likely you had little or no experience with the opposite sex before each other. That makes it even worse. She's all you know. And unfortunately, she has the desire to know others.

And that was the gyst of my ex-wife's issues - she knew only me. She had other relationships before me, but nothing that lasted more than a few months. Typical teenage relationships. At the time we got together, I had dated somebody for 3 years, and had a few other short relationships afterwards, so I had "experience". She didn't have this. So when things occasionally get boring (as they inevitably do in long term relationships), the easy way out is to wonder what it's like with other people, and to start to fantasize about it.

My ex wife will hit this point again, if she hasn't already. AFAIK, she's still with the man she ultimately left me for. Things will get boring and stagnant there, too, and you settle into 'same old, same old'. But now she has experience with this, where she had none before. Much like where your wife is currently at.

In all honesty, your best and only hope is to talk to her about this in that way. My ex wife had a mid-life crisis of sorts at 30 - she even admitted that. Having really known only me and wondering if "this was it". After years and years of her and my friends (and siblings) starting new relationships, and the general excitement that goes with that, and the adventures they had, and the heartbreak and emotions, to come home to the same old, same old, day in, day out, same face, same routine - it's easy to start resenting someone, even blaming them for their stagnant life. And blame me she did. "You stole my 20's from me!" was a direct quote at one point.

So long (looong) story short - there's nothing you can do, or could have done, to avoid this. Very few people, IMO, are actually cut out for long term relationships when they start at such a young age. There's almost a biological urge to see what's out there, and otherwise get it out of your system before you settle down. It's hard to see the people you're around going through all the adventures (good and bad) while you've already settled down with someone, and life has become somewhat stagnant. It's hard to be 30 years old and every single adventure and story you have involves your partner.

Now, the girl I dated when we were teenagers for 3 years before I met my ex wife - we're now married. We came full circle. We broke up for the same reasons - 'what else is out there?' At the time, I didn't have the desire to know what else was out there, but she did. And ultimately, she was right. She knows what I went through with my ex wife, and we both realized that had we stayed together, it probably would have been the exact same scenario - one or both of us would have desired to know what else there was in life. So fortunately, we both were able to find that out for ourselves, and the answer (in our case, any way) was 'not much'. Of course we both had great experiences and adventures and we also had bad experiences and even traumas - but we learned things we otherwise wouldn't have, and we're both very thankful for that in the long run.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Not knowing how much she shares with her brother or his friends, if they know anything it will be only what she has shared they will probably see you in many unkind ways


Her family actually knows the whole story (because I told them.. She left the EA out and only told them about the arguement) and take my side on things.. They have expressed their dissappointment to her.. So not worried about feeling like an outcast... And yea at times I do feel embarrassed about the situation and things that I am putting myself through... But sticking up for myself shouldn't have to mean filing for divorce... I think I will try and have a good time this weekend... Then tell her when we get home she needs to agree to counseling (I think it would benefit her to talk to someone besides me about the ENTIRE situation) or transfer out of her facility... Something to prove she's really in this other than just "letting me try" to fix it... This probably doesn't belong in this thread anymore so if admin knows how to switch it feel free


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Are you seeking professional help? You need to ask yourself important questions. Can you love her the way she is now, can you be healthy around her mentally and emotionally, do you value yourself, if not her personality, do you love her because you are afraid of something different or her level of attractiveness?

Love is not enough to fix anything and it takes work on both ends and work on one's self to maintain a long-term relationship. Also, sounds like you got oneitis. Because you lack relationship experience, the mind can play tricks on you. She is the love of your life because she has been the only person you have been with for a long time. If things were more optimal for your wife, she would have likely left you for her boss if her boss were a different person with different circumstances. I think you should find your own self-identity without your wife because you need value without her. She should not be your world, she should orbit around you and vice versa.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

allnamesaretaken said:


> Her family actually knows the whole story (because I told them.. She left the EA out and only told them about the arguement) and take my side on things.. They have expressed their dissappointment to her.. So not worried about feeling like an outcast... And yea at times I do feel embarrassed about the situation and things that I am putting myself through... But sticking up for myself shouldn't have to mean filing for divorce... I think I will try and have a good time this weekend... Then tell her when we get home she needs to agree to counseling (I think it would benefit her to talk to someone besides me about the ENTIRE situation) or transfer out of her facility... Something to prove she's really in this other than just "letting me try" to fix it... This probably doesn't belong in this thread anymore so if admin knows how to switch it feel free


Have you talked to her about why she had the EA? What needs in her the OM was meeting that she felt you were not?

If you could start meeting them, that could go a long way towards lessening her attraction to other men. Kind of like "affair insurance."


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

jld said:


> Have you talked to her about why she had the EA? What needs in her the OM was meeting that she felt you were not?
> 
> If you could start meeting them, that could go a long way towards lessening her attraction to other men. Kind of like "affair insurance."




"Support and appreciation" we're things that she felt like she was not getting enough of... At the beginning of this she said those are the only things she needs in a relationship but it was too late for those things to matter from me... that was 4 months ago and we still aren't divorced.. So I'll just keep using the time I'm given to show her these things and hopefully her walls will slowly drop (which is what I'm trying to believe the small steps in contact and time together are examples of)


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

allnamesaretaken said:


> "Support and appreciation" we're things that she felt like she was not getting enough of... At the beginning of this she said those are the only things she needs in a relationship but it was too late for those things to matter from me... that was 4 months ago and we still aren't divorced.. So I'll just keep using the time I'm given to show her these things and hopefully her walls will slowly drop (which is what I'm trying to believe the small steps in contact and time together are examples of)


Yep, just keeping working at it. Patience and persistence can go a long way towards reviving her attraction.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

allnamesaretaken said:


> "Support and appreciation" we're things that she felt like she was not getting enough of... At the beginning of this she said those are the only things she needs in a relationship but it was too late for those things to matter from me... that was 4 months ago and we still aren't divorced.. So I'll just keep using the time I'm given to show her these things and hopefully her walls will slowly drop (which is what I'm trying to believe the small steps in contact and time together are examples of)



That would not work if she does not first respect you. What about her own end, did she meet your needs before your marriage imploded? Were you happy prior to her EA as well? Did she meet your needs in a reasonable way but you failed on your own end first or did the two of you neglect the health of the relationship.

You can show her support and all, but if she sees you less of a man, she will never get that spark back. If you wife were to gain 200 lbs and smelled funny, you lose that spark towards her. Perception is attraction whether on a physical level, mental and emotional one. You may be an attractive guy but your self-confidence may have more value in keeping her less attractive towards you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

turnera said:


> What are you two doing to improve the marriage? Have you read His Needs Her Needs together? Have you filled out the Emotional Needs and Love Busters questionnaires so that you both know how to please the other and what bad things to avoid? Are you spending 10 to 15 hours a week together doing the things you did when you were dating? Are you having a 'state of the marriage' meeting every month to safely discuss how it's going and how it can be improved? Have you apologized for what you said and asked her how you can make up for it? Do you brag about her to other people? Do you talk regularly about everything under the sun, so that you get to know each other better (the new, adult versions)?
> 
> *There are many ways to come back to that point. But it takes work*.


*It takes more than work.*

*It takes forgiving*. YOU MUST BE ABLE TO FORGIVE HER. FORGIVE NOW, AND FOREVER. CAN YOU DO THIS? YOUR MEMORY OF THIS WILL HAUNT YOU FOR THAT AFOREMENTIONED "FOREVER".

Yes, she disconnected from you because of the things that Turnera listed. But she is a big girl. *Why is it that only a man owns the role of romancer? Actually, I know the answer......because, "That is the Way it Is". Women expect this. Our culture pushes this. Women's psyche's are formed this way. * 

*It may not be fair, but if a man wants a women, he better learn how to dance.*

You two argued a lot. But you were not arguing with yourself in the mirror. No, you were arguing with her. She owns half of that behavior because she participated in it. She did not try to diffuse this behavior "either". Or did she?

*On these texts; how much love was shown to OM? Did she proclaim love, or affection? Were they sexual in nature? Or were they merely "friendly" and teasing? Were they the dancing with words, words that would lead to the bedroom? This would be Key to Me.*


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

alexm said:


> If there's something I learned the hard way (and also didn't listen to when I first came here... in 2008), it's this.
> 
> FWIW, OP, my first marriage was similar to yours - dating since we were teenagers, together 7 years, then married. Right around year 3 of the marriage, things really took a turn for the worse, but it lasted another 4 after that. But - same issue as you, just took her longer to get to the point that your wife has gotten to. Or more likely, that much longer for her to find a man she would leave for  This was pre-smartphones and pre-Facebook and social media, so I didn't catch her the way you caught your wife. It was only speculation for me. She had a good life at that point, so leaving would have been detrimental to her in many ways, so she stuck around, despite her no longer loving me. C'est la vie. Once she found someone she'd actually leave for, and could provide her with a similar lifestyle, she did. Be lucky your wife is being upfront about her feelings now, rather than waiting for wholly selfish reasons.
> 
> ...


One of your best posts! A lot to digest.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> If they work together or have contact the affair is ongoing. She wants a separation to spend it with her lover. You aren't getting any because she isn't going to cheat on him. You don't count.


you absolutely should go.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I suppose it is PC to say both are responsible for healing the marriage. But in reality, the person who wants it more is probably going to have to take the lead.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> You two argued a lot. But you were not arguing with yourself in the mirror. No, you were arguing with her. She owns half of that behavior because she participated in it. She did not try to diffuse this behavior "either". Or did she?
> 
> On these texts; how much love was shown to OM? Did she proclaim love, or affection? Were they sexual in nature? Or were they merely "friendly" and teasing? Were they the dancing with words, words that would lead to the bedroom? This would be Key to Me.



She would usually try to avoid/end arguements as quickly as possible with no real solution.. Like I said they weren't huge or important.. Just frequent and annoying... She admits that effective communication was always an issue for her... We both have been able to admit what all of our faults were.. And if not already obvious to us.. Ask the other what they think each other's faults were... She is just stuck in a place in her head where she isn't sure if she wants to work on it.. Which leads me to believe the OM is still on her mind.. Regardless of whether or not he is giving her the cold shoulder right now...

The word love was never thrown around.. There were a lot of jokes that implied fooling around... Including multiple mentions of getting a hotel room.. Talks about wanting to drive the hour distance between them just for a hug or to see each other if only for a second... The most real thing was that they were setting to meet up for drinks a few days later from when I discovered them


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Have you decided whether or not to tell her boss's wife about the EA?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Your passivity makes you look weak, pathetic, and needy.
> 
> You're like a stray dog following her around begging her for a pat on the head. That is SO unattractive.
> 
> ...


*S*hes*s*till*g*ot*i*t

SSGI-

*S*tandard *S*ystems *G*roup *I*nstruction.....US Air Force acronym!
..............................................................................................................................................
This really pissed me off. Not because what you wrote was wrong [it wasn't]. No, it pissed me off because the *"Meek often do inherit the Earth". *

In this instance, she has been throwing dirt in this passive man's face for too long; now *he is now a PICA PLEBE. An insignificant man that is now [properly] labeled a dirt-eater.*

Whew! My heart doth beat hard. Thank you for seeing HER as the MAIN VILLAIN and he as the MAIN PUSHOVER. [puzzyover]

If you are unhappy in a marriage and do not want to continue....get a divorce, do not cheat. I can write this a million times and not tire of the sentiment.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

jld said:


> Have you decided whether or not to tell her boss's wife about the EA?


I totally want to... But I feel like as long as R is an option (no matter how small the chance) .. That I should keep it to myself... She has expressed before that it would be a deal breaker... As this could damage her career if he chooses to take it being discovered out on her... But she is not just stringing me along in fear of this.. Because as far as she knows.. My one avenue of communication to him and his wife has been closed (through fb). He blocked me from his and his wife's account the night I found the texts... But my W and OM are unaware that I have other means to communicate if I choose that route


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That would really depend on whether they are still in contact. Are they?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

allnamesaretaken said:


> I totally want to... But I feel like as long as R is an option (no matter how small the chance) .. That I should keep it to myself... She has expressed before that it would be a deal breaker... As this could damage her career if he chooses to take it being discovered out on her... But she is not just stringing me along in fear of this.. Because as far as she knows.. My one avenue of communication to him and his wife has been closed (through fb). He blocked me from his and his wife's account the night I found the texts... But my W and OM are unaware that I have other means to communicate if I choose that route


I hope you do. His wife knows nothing right now, huh?

He was in a position of authority over your wife, and took advantage of it.

Your wife is young. You two can heal this if you want to. 

Start being the husband you should have always been. That could win her back.

This might help, too:

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

allnamesaretaken said:


> Her family actually knows the whole story (because I told them.. She left the EA out and only told them about the arguement) and take my side on things.. They have expressed their dissappointment to her.. So not worried about feeling like an outcast... And yea at times I do feel embarrassed about the situation and things that I am putting myself through... But sticking up for myself shouldn't have to mean filing for divorce... I think I will try and have a good time this weekend... Then tell her when we get home she needs to agree to counseling (I think it would benefit her to talk to someone besides me about the ENTIRE situation) or transfer out of her facility... Something to prove she's really in this other than just "letting me try" to fix it... This probably doesn't belong in this thread anymore so if admin knows how to switch it feel free


Sticking up for yourself doesn't mean filing for divorce... but divorce may be the outcome of sticking up for yourself. Either way, sticking up for yourself must come though strength and faith in self that no matter the outcome you will be content in and of your actions.

She absolutely needs an objective perspective to her feelings as well... counseling doesn't just help us find new paths for the ways we defeat ourselves, it helps us validate the good or true in the paths we are on.

You shook up her world in the worst way when you told her you weren't sure in love with her, whether that was true with you or not... bad enough that she tried to recover from that in the most unmindful of ways, validation that she was loved somehow, some way, by any means possible with horrible choices... she needs to get her mind right so her own outcomes are not destructive.

I understand when one's world feels collapsed when they are told they are not as loved as they thought, her walls and poor choices are owned only by her, and while you helped build them with some influence, only she can take them down, this is where IC will help at first, then MC to follow if she is interested.

If she is not, you will have a hard decision to make because she will have made hers.

I do wish you both the best, but the best where you are may not be a path together.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

turnera said:


> That would really depend on whether they are still in contact. Are they?


Obviously they are in contact professionally.. At work where they are forced to behave.. She said that he mostly avoids her now.. Seems like he has been scared straight for the time being.. And I have confirmed this by getting back on her phone and reading texts (all work related). Where he barely responds.. Nothing more than a "thanks" every once in a while.. Definitely a big change from before hah


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

allnamesaretaken said:


> *Talks about wanting to drive the hour distance between them just for a hug*


OM = Hug equals something worth driving an hour for
YOU = Hug may equal something causing her anxiety

OK, let us look into this situation and try to define what the other man has that you do not. If desire needs "distance" in order to thrive, can you see something there that might give the OM a big advantage? 

Alright, you with me? Now think about how you could use "distance" with your wife to help give her more of an opportunity to feel desire again for you? And if you want to be passive aggressive and enjoy a little revenge, how could you take away some of this "distance" that the other man possesses? 

One unique way you can use "distance" is to perhaps write love letters back and forth with you wife. By doing this it also forces you to listen better to each other because each person can write out their feelings without the other person interjecting in a way that feels like arguing. You can now communicate through _distance_.

One fun way to take away "distance" that the OM has would be to buy an odd pet for the house and very awkwardly name it after the OM. Imagine his name is "Fred," this will allow you to fuss at you wife and remind her to get food for Fred and to renew his worm medicine and clean up his shît because it is starting to stink. Then the idea of the OM's name becomes imprinted in your wife's mind as something that is very close, annoying, and smells of shît. Make sure this is a pet that the kids love so she can't get rid of Fred no matter how much she grows to despise him.

Badsanta


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

badsanta said:


> OM = One fun way to take away "distance" that the OM has would be to buy an odd pet for the house and very awkwardly name it after the OM. Imagine his name is "Fred," this will allow you to fuss at you wife and remind her to get food for Fred and to renew his worm medicine and clean up his shît because it is starting to stink. Then the idea of the OM's name becomes imprinted in your wife's mind as something that is very close, annoying, and smells of shît. Make sure this is a pet that the kids love so she can't get rid of Fred no matter how much she grows to despise him.


Clever, but could easily backfire... I wouldn't bet on this with my relationship-currency fund.

I could see resentment taking not just a foothold, but a beachhead with such an action.

There is nothing forgiving in this...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

allnamesaretaken said:


> She would usually try to avoid/end arguements as quickly as possible with no real solution.. Like I said they weren't huge or important.. Just frequent and annoying... She admits that effective communication was always an issue for her... We both have been able to admit what all of our faults were.. And if not already obvious to us.. Ask the other what they think each other's faults were... She is just stuck in a place in her head where she isn't sure if she wants to work on it.. Which leads me to believe the OM is still on her mind.. Regardless of whether or not he is giving her the cold shoulder right now...
> 
> The word love was never thrown around.. There were a lot of jokes that implied fooling around... *Including multiple mentions of getting a hotel room.*. Talks about wanting to drive the hour distance between them just for a hug or to see each other if only for a second... The most real thing was that they were setting to meet up for drinks a few days later from when I discovered them


That is enough for me.

She was two pubic hairs away from a Tryst. 

Divorce.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

allnamesaretaken said:


> I totally want to... But I feel like as long as R is an option (no matter how small the chance) .. That I should keep it to myself... She has expressed before that it would be a deal breaker... As this could damage her career if he chooses to take it being discovered out on her... But she is not just stringing me along in fear of this.. Because as far as she knows.. My one avenue of communication to him and his wife has been closed (through fb). He blocked me from his and his wife's account the night I found the texts... But my W and OM are unaware that I have other means to communicate if I choose that route


I'm sure they appreciate you helping them hide their affair. It will probable help enable it to continue. Fear and weakness at this time is your worst enemy.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

allnamesaretaken said:


> I totally want to... But I feel like as long as R is an option (no matter how small the chance) .. That I should keep it to myself... She has expressed before that it would be a deal breaker... As this could damage her career if he chooses to take it being discovered out on her... But she is not just stringing me along in fear of this.. Because as far as she knows.. My one avenue of communication to him and his wife has been closed (through fb). He blocked me from his and his wife's account the night I found the texts... But my W and OM are unaware that I have other means to communicate if I choose that route


In other words, if you do the right thing, she will divorce you? Convenient, that...

One thing you need to start right now is following your principles, whether your wayward wife agrees with them or not. 

Frankly, my wife told me that the only way she would stay with me was for me to compromise my principles, she would quickly find herself having the opportunity to exercise that threat.

That is one of many differences between a strong and weak man.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> In other words, if you do the right thing, she will divorce you? Convenient, that...
> 
> One thing you need to start right now is following your principles, whether your wayward wife agrees with them or not.
> 
> ...



I can see where this goes.. And I'll still have the option of exposing them... But if I expose them first.. There is no option of seeing where this goes.. Ya know? It's not like she'll respect me for displaying "strength" and get back with me after that... And despite how horrible she has been... I can't let 4 months tear apart 11 years without a fight


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> In other words, if you do the right thing, she will divorce you? Convenient, that...
> 
> One thing you need to start right now is following your principles, whether your wayward wife agrees with them or not.
> 
> ...


I think the motives are at least as important as the principles, far.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

allnamesaretaken said:


> I can see where this goes.. And I'll still have the option of exposing them... But if I expose them first.. There is no option of seeing where this goes.. Ya know? It's not like she'll respect me for displaying "strength" and get back with me after that... And despite how horrible she has been... I can't let 4 months tear apart 11 years without a fight


Does she understand he does not love her? That he was only using her?

And will go on to use other girls, if there are no consequences (and may even if there are)?


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

jld said:


> Does she understand he does not love her? That he was only using her?
> 
> And will go on to use other girls, if there are no consequences (and may even if there are)?



I have said this to her.. That it doesn't make sense that she can't trust me after what I said... But she can trust someone like him?! Someone willing to cheat on their pregnant wife! Is that really someone she wants to be with?! And she denies that anything sexual was ever going to come from it.. Just "friends" and all that talk was just "joking" ...even if that were true (which there's no way in hell it is). I'm not stupid and I know what would happen if the two of them got together alone with alcohol involved... I told her she's throwing away a third of her life for a temporary [email protected] buddy... She didn't really say much after that.. But I don't think it really hit her like it should have..


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You are missing the point?

First, it is emotional blackmail.

Second, why would you consider where it goes? That is an exercise in compromising what you feel to be incredibly important. In other words, subverting something you feel to be immensely important in order to protect the reputation of your WW; allowing someone else to be exposed to continued hurt; to be exposed to STD's; to be lied to.

You are enabling that, and if you can look yourself in the mirror while it happens, knowing you have the ability to give the truth to someone, I think you need to do a character assessment.

Her demanding such, and you enabling such, is the epitome of selfishness.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> I think the motives are at least as important as the principles, far.


On a much more limited basis.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

allnamesaretaken said:


> I have said this to her.. That it doesn't make sense that she can't trust me after what I said... But she can trust someone like him?! Someone willing to cheat on their pregnant wife! Is that really someone she wants to be with?! And she denies that anything sexual was ever going to come from it.. Just "friends" and all that talk was just "joking" ...even if that were true (which there's no way in hell it is). I'm not stupid and I know what would happen if the two of them got together alone with alcohol involved... I told her she's throwing away a third of her life for a temporary [email protected] buddy... She didn't really say much after that.. But I don't think it really hit her like it should have..


Wow. Did you read that link I posted? You really need to. She really does not trust you.

I am worried for her. She is headed for deeper trouble if she cannot see all this. 

If you are strong, and you really love her, you will not abandon her.

What do you think the consequences of workplace exposure would be? Not just exposure to his wife, but to his work?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

@allnamesaretaken, You have an answer for every bit of advice that's given. Why are you here?

You are very fearful of failing and frozen in your shoes. Unless you ignore that fear, you will have no chance at success. 

To save your marriage is worthy. To save it at any cost is foolish and will bite you in the rear end. 

Unless you're willing to walk away, and she knows it, you will not have a chance at success. 

Did you read the link (NMMNG) yet?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> On a much more limited basis.


Completely disagree, far. 

What do you think the point of principles is? Just to have principles?

They are the tools of wisdom. But wisdom requires discernment. And the whole basis of wisdom, of all principles, is _love._


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Completely disagree, far.
> 
> What do you think the point of principles is? Just to have principles?
> 
> They are the tools of wisdom. But wisdom requires discernment. And the whole basis of wisdom, of all principles, is _love._


Which is exactly why exposure is necessary if he is trying to reconcile.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Which is exactly why exposure is necessary if he is trying to reconcile.


I don't know if it is necessary, but it could hasten it.

I do think there could be other benefits, though.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

anchorwatch said:


> @allnamesaretaken, You have an answer for every bit of advice that's given. Why are you here?
> 
> You are very fearful of failing and frozen in your shoes. Unless you ignore that fear, you will have no chance at success.
> 
> ...



I know I'm responding to everything... It's because I've done way more thinking than talking over the past few months. I have a very limited number of people to talk to about this in my real life.... All of them taking sides by relation...I'm finally getting different viewpoints from unbiased minds... Whether I agree or not.. Its good to hear and discuss where these things could possibly lead

And no I haven't read but I plan on it tonight


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## DoctorSane (Jul 8, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Your passivity makes you look weak, pathetic, and needy.
> 
> You're like a stray dog following her around begging her for a pat on the head. That is SO unattractive.
> 
> ...


Every jelly-spined guy (definitely not "man") who comes here whimpering "Why doesn't my wife-mommy wuv me anymore?" needs to read this. From what I read here, you sound gross. Are you a prize? Are you worth treating well? Are you worth banging with enthusiasm? If you are, then you are the problem: you have value and are too weak to embrace that and all that it entails, so you suffer at the hands of someone who treats you poorly and you somehow find (really, invent out of whole cloth) enough value in that person that you want to keep your life prospects tied to her. If you aren't, then you are the problem: whether it's right or wrong, low value people are not respected and they tend to get treated poorly.

Kill your ego and get this through your head: she was eagerly lining up a chance to rendezvous with another guy to bang him, while your touch makes her flinch. It's one thing for a wife's attraction or libido to tank over time. It's another thing for her to actively seek out an opportunity to ride some other guy while being deeply repulsed by her husband's touch. He gives her the tingles and gets her wet. Not only does she stay dry as the Sahara for you, you creep her out.

Find or create genuine value in yourself and then act in a way that is congruent with that. You're in a mental prison of your own creation and you keep fortifying the walls.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

allnamesaretaken said:


> I can see where this goes.. And I'll still have the option of exposing them... But if I expose them first.. There is no option of seeing where this goes.. Ya know? *It's not like she'll respect me for displaying "strength" and get back with me after that*... And despite how horrible she has been... I can't let 4 months tear apart 11 years without a fight


Actually, in all my 15+ years of doing this, this is EXACTLY what would happen. The *ONLY *marriages - I can think of about 10 in all those years - I've seen come back from women cheating occurred when the husband blew up the affair, no matter WHAT she said, and then told her to make up her mind. NOW.

Of course, most men are scared sh&tless of standing up to their wives that way and hem and haw and wait and hope and kiss her ass so she stay...which disgusts her so that she leaves anyway. 

Women CRAVE strong men. It's in our DNA. You sitting back and waiting it out is exactly the best way to lose your wife.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

jld said:


> Wow. Did you read that link I posted? You really need to. She really does not trust you.
> 
> I am worried for her. She is headed for deeper trouble if she cannot see all this.
> 
> ...


Oh My Goodness.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

allnamesaretaken said:


> I know I'm responding to everything... It's because I've done way more thinking than talking over the past few months. I have a very limited number of people to talk to about this in my real life.... All of them taking sides by relation...I'm finally getting different viewpoints from unbiased minds... Whether I agree or not.. Its good to hear and discuss where these things could possibly lead


None of those people have dealt with more than one or two cases of infidelity. The people here have been here, some of us, for YEARS, and we have coached people and watched those people either ignore the advice or take the advice. We have the statistics, ok? We KNOW what works and what doesn't. That advice you're getting out there in neverland? Advice from inexperienced, unknowledgeable people. 

We tell you what works - exposure, strength, unwillingness to compromise. You fear doing it because you - like every OTHER BH who comes here - think 'oh, she'll be mad at me.' Well, yeah, that's kinda the point. Your marriage can survive her anger. It can't survive a third party.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

turnera said:


> None of those people have dealt with more than one or two cases of infidelity. The people here have been here, some of us, for YEARS, and we have coached people and watched those people either ignore the advice or take the advice. We have the statistics, ok? We KNOW what works and what doesn't. That advice you're getting out there in neverland? Advice from inexperienced, unknowledgeable people.
> 
> We tell you what works - exposure, strength, unwillingness to compromise. You fear doing it because you - like every OTHER BH who comes here - think 'oh, she'll be mad at me.' Well, yeah, that's kinda the point. Your marriage can survive her anger. It can't survive a third party.



But I don't think it can survive getting her fired or creating a hostile work environment.. I can just tell her she needs to transfer if she's serious about us


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

allnamesaretaken said:


> But I don't think it can survive getting her fired or creating a hostile work environment..
> 
> *The work site is already a hostile environment to your marriage.*
> 
> ...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Let her stay at her work with the OM, don't expose....... 100% chance of marriage failure.

However, you have probably a 1% chance of success, even if you do everything perfectly.
The sad fact is that once a woman changes her mind about a man, it rarely changes back.
Prepare for her to leave. And live your life like she's gone. That's pretty much the only chance you have at keeping her.


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## DoctorSane (Jul 8, 2016)

Look, an EA that blossoms into planning to get together to screw each other silly is a deal-breaker for me. I'd already be at the lawyer's office and the next thing I'd be doing is lining up dates for this weekend. But, fine, you want to try to save things. In that case, ACT LIKE YOU REALLY MEAN IT! Oh, dear heavens, the marriage might not survive her having to leave a job where she was canoodling with one of her co-workers. But, you think it can survive her (nearly or actually) getting railed by some other guy while she practically pukes when you make contact with her. You're in a desperate scramble to make her feel good and to keep her from being angry at you, because you have the screwed-up idea that attraction and respect flow from making your wife happy and making her life comfortable. It's understandable that you'd think that, since it's the message that gets drummed into our heads since childhood. But it's false and just mind poison.

I'm not saying you should be a jerk to her just for the sake of being a jerk. Don't be a child. But being an adult and taking care of adult problems in adult ways, often involves a helluva lot of bad feelings and discomfort along the way. Do the work to fix yourself and then assess whether the marriage can be saved and is worth saving. And if she walks before you get to the point where you've sorted that all out, the only real response to that is "The door's right there." And then move on to living an awesome life for yourself.

To be clear, the problem really isn't the job, though. If she leaves the job, she could meet some other guy at church, the grocery store, on a dating site, or wherever. She's obviously hot to trot right now, whatever you might think of her ardor for the guy at working having cooled (which, of course, you're wrong about: she has just taken it underground or is just biding her time until she thinks she has another open opportunity with him). The problem is that she has zero respect for you and it's pretty clear she's just reflecting back to you your own assessment of yourself. It's going to take the iron will of Stalin to right your ship and it really has nothing to do with you putting limits on her behavior. It has everything to do with what sort of value you place on yourself, what boundaries you establish for yourself and how you enforce them, and un-fvcking your mind and perhaps your body. The bad news is that you're a mess. The good news is that the only thing you can control is you, so you are able to fix the real problem.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

badsanta said:


> One fun way to take away "distance" that the OM has would be to buy an odd pet for the house and very awkwardly name it after the OM. Imagine his name is "Fred," this will allow you to fuss at you wife and remind her to get food for Fred and to renew his worm medicine and clean up his shît because it is starting to stink. Then the idea of the OM's name becomes imprinted in your wife's mind as something that is very close, annoying, and smells of shît. Make sure this is a pet that the kids love so she can't get rid of Fred no matter how much she grows to despise him.
> 
> Badsanta





Emerging Buddhist said:


> Clever, but could easily backfire... I wouldn't bet on this with my relationship-currency fund.
> 
> I could see resentment taking not just a foothold, but a beachhead with such an action.
> 
> There is nothing forgiving in this...


 @Emerging Buddhist well if you were the OM, well then you can just eat your heart out at this little guy!









I named him *Emit Tang Buddhist*!

The kids love him and are making him a little temple.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

allnamesaretaken said:


> But I don't think it can survive getting her fired or creating a hostile work environment.. I can just tell her she needs to transfer if she's serious about us


DID you?

And, dude, it's JUST A JOB. Jobs come and go. You only get one shot at this marriage.

Tell her you expect her to either be getting reassigned to someplace he doesn't work or actively getting a new job. Or planning for divorce. There is no in between.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

badsanta said:


> @Emerging Buddhist well if you were the OM, well then you can just eat your heart out at this little guy!
> 
> The kids love him and are making him a little temple.


You are a really... bad... Santa.:laugh:

I was talking more a mindful self approach for self... not sympathy for OM. I personally think he should walk.

You are definitely more vengeful than I... and that is entirely your call.

Geez... a gerbil?

I am still laughing!!! :grin2:


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

allnamesaretaken said:


> *But I don't think it can survive getting her fired* or creating a hostile work environment.. I can just tell her she needs to transfer if she's serious about us


As in you are completely dependent on her income and can't threaten your own livelihood?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

allnamesaretaken said:


> things blew up after that and i decided to give her that space.. *I moved in with my parents for a month* and asked her to please not forget that we were married during that time... and told her that if the affair continued then this space can not benefit us.. she assured me it was done and that she would focus on herself and what she needs to do to come back to me... *well i came home a week early to find out that she bought another house*


You go home to your mom, she goes out and just buys another house! 

:surprise:

DANG BRO!


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

badsanta said:


> @Emerging Buddhist well if you were the OM, well then you can just eat your heart out at this little guy!


Yes, I came back to laugh again but aside from that, my message is simply you don't leave hate by adding to it... thus why I dislike any passive-aggressive approach posed as a solution.

Your sense of humor is appreciated though...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Yes, I came back to laugh again but aside from that, my message is simply you don't leave hate by adding to it... *thus why I dislike any passive-aggressive approach posed as a solution.*
> 
> Your sense of humor is appreciated though...


To the contrary, with "creativity" passive aggressive behavior can become the "fraternity hazing bond" that holds a family together. 

I'm seriously going to write a book one day called, "How to save your marriage, by spicing up your temper tantrums!"


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

badsanta said:


> To the contrary, with "creativity" passive aggressive behavior can become the "fraternity hazing bond" that holds a family together.
> 
> I'm seriously going to write a book one day called, "How to save your marriage, by spicing up your temper tantrums!"


I would buy a copy in a heartbeat... thanks for making my day a little lighter, and more. :wink2:


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

allnamesaretaken said:


> . The only positive I'm holding on to is that she is no longer talking divorce.


well, if you have gotten over the EA part of her talking intimately with another man....

maybe the clue to reconciliation is in the EA itself She likes to talk. She likes to talk about certain things. May be sex, politics, just friendly discussions, maybe he flatters her a lot....she fell for that, needed it, and did not get it from you.

IF you coud figure out what they were/are talking about....you could try to fill that role instead. One thing for sure, you need to really lay it on tick about how hot andsexy you think her body it....multiple times a day. That book the five love languages might be of some use


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like your wife doesn't take responsibility for anything she does...and you enable that behavior. You say you won't let 4 months ruin 11 years...but, I have a feeling, that she didn't just change over night. Sometimes, people ignore red flags throughout relationships just to keep the peace, do you think you might have ever done that? 

The only way your relationship will work is if your wife owns what she did, she doesn't sound like she is. She sounds like she wants you to believe it wasn't anything at all ...not even an EA. I hope you don't lose your own self in trying to save your marriage.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> The only way your relationship will work is if your wife owns what she did, she doesn't sound like she is. She sounds like she wants you to believe it wasn't anything at all ...not even an EA. I hope you don't lose your own self in trying to save your marriage.


1. Nice new Avatar...

2. Nice truth...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So many things happen to us in our lives that are so incredibly difficult to accept. We tend to think that we can do something about these events of we try hard enough-- if our will is strong enough.....
Thing is, our lives aren't under our control. And other people, our spouses included, are not under our control. Their feelings aren't even under their own control most of the time.

Sometimes we are forced to just give up what we can't do anything about. Accept it and move on, even if it hurts. 
That's what I suggest here. Even though it hurts, move on and find yourself a new life. Create one. You created this one, OP.
You can make a new one, too.
You never know--- it may be better than you ever dreamed. 

If you stay where you are, this broken marriage will be like a cannonball around your neck. It will never get easier dragging it around. You don't have a choice. One way or another you're going to have to change. Do it on your terms, not hers. It's not fair to you to let her destroy your mind. 
Take care of yourself. You can't help anyone if you're not 100% yourself.

Consider moving on and finding someone that loves you.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Allnamestaken, you left out a very important part of your story in your OP. I pulled this from the OP of your other thread....



> ... about 4 months ago now in our last big fight that started all this.. *I foolishly said that I didnt love her*... I realize it was wrong and I shouldn't have let my emotions get the best of me.. but i haven't been able to get her back since then.. she shut down and shut me out from that moment on.. I've tried everything to get her back and she just kept asking for space.. *she said no matter how funny or sweet I am it won't change anything and space is our only hope.. *


IIRC didn't you also ask her for separation at that point?

The fact that she has since purchased a house and plans on moving in at the end month is a sure sign that she took what you said to heart. She started doing the 180, disconnected from you emotionally, and planned her exit. 

Unfortunately her exit included testing the waters with another man. Those are called exit affairs and are extremely difficult to overcome. My guess is that she's telling you what you want to hear to keep the peace until you two are officially separated. 

IMO, it doesn't look like she's going to seek to reconcile with you after she's gone. I would be very shocked if she hasn't already contacted a lawyer about divorce. I mean she purchased a freaking home......That's a huge asset that she'll need to protect. 

The best thing you can do right now is work on improving yourself. Become the best man you can become. It'll help you avoid the same mistakes in your future relationships. 

You're still young. You have plenty of time to get it right. Good luck.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

*Deidre* said:


> You say you won't let 4 months ruin 11 years...but, I have a feeling, that* she didn't just change over night.* Sometimes, people ignore red flags throughout relationships just to keep the peace, do you think you might have ever done that?


Yes, this.

To you, it's sudden. It came out of nowhere. To her, it was a long, gradual process. It may have started years before.

When my ex wife went down the same path as yours did, I was oblivious. My obliviousness no doubt contributed to her resentment of me ("Why doesn't he notice I'm drifting away?"). It's the s**t test of all s**t tests - my ex wife didn't once talk to me about her feelings (or gradual lack of) until it was too late, and SHE couldn't take it any more, AND there was already somebody else. In her mind, I was supposed to notice her drifting away from me and fight for her looong before she even got to the point of testing the waters with someone else. So in her mind, it was my fault and her actions were justified. "Well he doesn't notice me drifting away, so I'll keep pushing the envelope until he does", and by the time I did, it was far too late.

Now, all of that makes me sound like I was an idiot and had my head in the sand - but I didn't. Not really. For me, I just trusted her as I felt I should have. I trusted her to talk to me about things and communicate openly and freely. Perhaps I took her for granted in this regard, but TBH, why wouldn't I have? (and vice versa). We had been together for so long and from a young age, so why wouldn't communication continue?

With hindsight being what it is, I can pinpoint when my ex wife started this gradual process. We were together just shy of 14 years total, 7 married. The year we got married is when things started changing for her. Over those ensuing years, she pushed the envelope farther and farther until we wound up where we did. Except I didn't notice it during that time. I chalked it up to the normal evolution of a marriage. Silly me. And in fact, I'm certain she cheated on me at least once during that time - again, something I didn't even recognize until AFTER we were no longer together. At the time, it wasn't obvious at all, and I had so much trust in her that it wasn't an option for me. I don't recall the thought even entering my mind at the time. But months after she left, it suddenly popped in my head, and I felt really really stupid.

Bluntly put, it's too late, IMO. If I was the only one with this story, I wouldn't say that, but I've seen it play out over and over (here, and IRL) and it's like a script. The first time I read a similar story here on TAM, I thought "Oh my god, this is exactly what happened to me!". I've seen it numerous times since then with very few deviations, and it no longer surprises me.

If I could do it all over again, I wouldn't have fought for my ex wife, and I would have focused on myself. Ironically enough, you have a MUCH better chance of reconciling with her if you DON'T fight for her. And secondly, it's much better to focus on yourself anyway - without the the goal of reconciliation in mind. It's win-win in an otherwise losing battle.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It's interesting to me how cheaters will say ''I just couldn't take it anymore, I was going to come to you, but...'' AFTER they already have someone new. lol That's not a sh!t test, that's just a needy, toxic person who believes that they're the center of attention, and as soon as they don't become YOUR center of attention, they cheat. ''Narcissist'' is an easier word to remember. lol And, they often cheat on the person they cheated on you with, which shows that it was never about you or the relationship, it was about their insatiable need to have attention from people of the opposite sex.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Generally, once a woman checks out, she checks out. There is no going back. She can go through the motions, but the marital relationship is gone. Women are funny that way. 

I'm sorry OP, but you are caught up in a sunk cost fallacy loop here. Best to end it and move on to a new life.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Generally, once a woman checks out, she checks out.  There is no going back. She can go through the motions, but the marital relationship is gone. Women are funny that way.


i think leaving to live with his parents for a monnth might have driven those nails into this coffin. She was feeling abandoned, and formed a plan forward without him. 

A separation...does not seem like a useful thing to me unless you are pretty sure you DO want the relationship to end.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

*Deidre* said:


> It's interesting to me how cheaters will say ''I just couldn't take it anymore, I was going to come to you, but...'' AFTER they already have someone new. lol That's not a sh!t test, that's just a needy, toxic person who believes that they're the center of attention, and as soon as they don't become YOUR center of attention, they cheat. ''Narcissist'' is an easier word to remember. lol And, they often cheat on the person they cheated on you with, which shows that it was never about you or the relationship, it was about their insatiable need to have attention from people of the opposite sex.


The way I meant it was it was the next step in the "hey, pay attention to me" s**t test of my ex wife. It definitely wasn't an all of a sudden thing for her.

I was suggesting that OP take a look at the last several years of his marriage and see if it started slowing down well before the EA started. As I said, I didn't notice it as it was happening, and once it was too late (for me), that's when I realized it was a slow burn.

My ex wife confirmed that post-separation, that she had started to feel that way looong before the marriage ended and she broke her vows. If she had communicated this to me as it was happening, perhaps things would have been different (but I doubt it).

It doesn't always go this way, of course - sometimes it IS quite sudden, and it's what it takes to make the person fully realize they don't want to be with you, but in many cases it's a slow process.

In my current marriage, I'm more on top of things. I'm not paranoid and I certainly don't constantly ask "what's wrong?", but I take the temperature of the marriage every now and again, we communicate, and I pay attention. With my previous marriage, we were both very young and inexperienced, and neither of us really worked on communicating (especially her) or on marriage-building. Live and learn.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

alexm said:


> The way I meant it was it was the next step in the "hey, pay attention to me" s**t test of my ex wife. It definitely wasn't an all of a sudden thing for her.
> 
> I was suggesting that OP take a look at the last several years of his marriage and see if it started slowing down well before the EA started. As I said, I didn't notice it as it was happening, and once it was too late (for me), that's when I realized it was a slow burn.
> 
> ...


I note you put all the blame on your ex wife for wanting your attention. (Cheating was a wrong way of dealing with the problem) All too often men once they get married, have the wife and kids, get wrapped up in their careers, hobbies etc and the wife may tell them that she is feeling lonely, unloved, lack of emotional connection etc but all too often it falls on deaf ears for years and years. Why didn't you take the emotional temperature of your first marriage? Sometimes men are lazy creatures and don't bother doing anything until the **** really hits the fan but then it is too late. 
For years i told my husband i felt abandoned and alone due to his work and drinking and he didn't bother changing. He even had the attitude what was I going to do or where was I going to go as I had kids and he knew I wouldnt break up the family. Now he knows different cause I could walk in a heart beat. Why do men let it get to that stage? I know I'll get some brick bats for this but I see it happen time and time again. Is it because the woman is not attractive if she wants her needs met?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Talker67 said:


> i think leaving to live with his parents for a monnth might have driven those nails into this coffin. She was feeling abandoned, and formed a plan forward without him.
> 
> A separation...does not seem like a useful thing to me unless you are pretty sure you DO want the relationship to end.


I don't think it was such a bad idea for him to get out of a toxic environment, TBH. When my ex wife decided she was leaving, it took her a week to actually do so, at my insistence (and with help from her sister). Not everybody is so lucky that the other person will actually leave. If you're at an impasse with this sort of thing, then it's not the worst thing in the world for you to leave the home. It's not ideal, but in the grand scheme of things, actually being separated from the person is a positive. Preferably it's them that should leave, but it doesn't always work out that way.

IME, the only tiny sliver of hope for me would have been to do the 180 - something I didn't know about way back then. People are funny that way - when they reject you, they EXPECT you to be upset and beg and cry. They actually prepare themselves for that. When you don't react in that way, THEY are the ones who sometimes end up feeling rejected and it makes them start thinking about things in a different way.

That kind of thing might only work if you aren't an a-hole or ever gave them a legitimate reason for them to leave you. In my case, I was a pretty good partner and husband.

Chasing someone who doesn't want to be with you actually drives them further away - I know that now. They're expecting it, and it's often a point of pride for them to 'stand their ground' with their decision. They're prepared for the waterworks and the 20-questions and the over all sadness.

It's damn-near impossible, but ideally, one should just live their life and go on when presented with something like this, as opposed to stopping everything and making the other person the center of their universe.

I started dating about 3-4 months after my ex wife left, and she found out shortly after. I didn't make a big deal of it, or even tell her, she found out on her own. And her tune changed drastically towards me, almost like jealousy. In retrospect, it was kind of funny. I took steps to move on from her, and it was almost like "wait, you're not chasing me any more?" At that point, she had rented her own place, all our pets were still living with me, and the man she left me for didn't live in this country and she was a few months away from moving there still. So I started dating someone, was living in 'our' house with all our pets, and she was all alone.

The sooner one can do something like that (not necessarily date, of course, just be 'okay' with the situation), the better. Especially if the other person has narcissistic tendencies, like my ex wife did. When you don't act in the expected way to rejection, it throws them for a loop. But you also can't force it and make it obvious. They're not going to be jealous if you suddenly turn into a party-boy/girl or turn to booze or otherwise go off the rails. But if you just live your life normally and be happy, that's another story. People are funny like that, like I said.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

There’s never a valid excuse to cheat. Not to say people can’t be frustrated and disappointed in their spouses and are afraid to communicate that, but cheating will never be acceptable as a response to that. You can always leave. You can always say ‘’I’m not happy, and I’m leaving.’’ It’s not someone else’s responsibility to fulfill all your needs. Being engaged now, I’m realizing that it’s not my fiance’s responsibility to make me happy. He doesn’t owe me my happiness. I think a lot of people go into marriage thinking that a spouse’s job is to fulfill every need. It takes communication, and if you choose to not communicate with your spouse as to how unhappy you are IN THE RELATIONSHIP, then maybe it is your fault for where the marriage ends up. From what I’ve been reading on here, threads posted by men about their wives cheating…it seems the wife wanted the lifestyle, but also wanted something new on the side, where she could get more attention. I don’t feel sorry for people who cheat, it is one of the lowest things you can do to someone else that you supposedly ‘’love.’’


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## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

alexm said:


> Now, all of that makes me sound like I was an idiot and had my head in the sand - but I didn't. Not really. For me, I just trusted her as I felt I should have. I trusted her to talk to me about things and communicate openly and freely. Perhaps I took her for granted in this regard, but TBH, why wouldn't I have? (and vice versa). We had been together for so long and from a young age, so why wouldn't communication continue?


I could not agree more. I feel this way in my marriage. Without mutual trust, I think it's over.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lila said:


> IMO, it doesn't look like she's going to seek to reconcile with you after she's gone. I would be very shocked if she hasn't already contacted a lawyer about divorce. I mean she purchased a freaking home......That's a huge asset that she'll need to protect.
> 
> The best thing you can do right now is work on improving yourself. Become the best man you can become. It'll help you avoid the same mistakes in your future relationships.
> 
> You're still young. You have plenty of time to get it right. Good luck.


 @Lila some women have a very strong tendency to think that everything will get better once they relocate into a new house, as if the house has been causing all the problems and it is used as a scapegoat. It is easy for you to know that if you ever had a very bad experience in a house before (regardless if the house was at fault or not), that you would want to move on into a new house. So perhaps the OP's wife is just trying to engage in "relocation therapy!" 

Now it just so happens that I completely agree with you, and I wrote the above to give the OP a chance to not give up hope in case that is what is going on. The wife should want the husband to be a part of choosing this new house so that she could envision the two of them there and happy. Anyway, we never have the whole story here on TAM, do we?

Badsanta


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

wantshelp said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by alexm View Post
> Now, all of that makes me sound like I was an idiot and had my head in the sand - but I didn't. Not really. For me, I just trusted her as I felt I should have. I trusted her to talk to me about things and communicate openly and freely. Perhaps I took her for granted in this regard, but TBH, why wouldn't I have? (and vice versa). We had been together for so long and from a young age, so why wouldn't communication continue?
> 
> I could not agree more. I feel this way in my marriage. Without mutual trust, I think it's over.


Well, the way I trusted my ex wife, I don't recommend anybody does to their spouse. There really is a fine line between absolute, 100%, complete and utter 'trust' and what's considered normal. I was the former, not the latter.

It's more that nothing that happened ever occurred to me that it would, or could, happen. I simply did not believe, or want to believe, that things would ever go the way they did.

Oblivious, blind trust is not the way to go in ANY marriage. One always has to be just ever so slightly on edge at all times, IMO. Just enough to recognize any potential warning signs before they blossom into anything else.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

badsanta said:


> @Lila The wife should want the husband to be a part of choosing this new house so that she could envision the two of them there and happy.
> 
> Badsanta


She did ask me to go with her and check it out before she signed the contract to see if I liked it... Then she gave me some nonsense about not being able to picture me there with her "right away". That she just needs some time alone first.. Just not too sure what she's looking for in that time alone...

And also... I went out with her to her brother's over the weekend.. Now granted she was super drunk.. She was actually very fun and flirty with me... Pretty much back to normal for the night.. And ya know what.. I'll take that as a good sign because in my experience.. Alcohol doesn't make you a different person.. I've always seen it as a truth serum.. It lets you be more of yourself.. So she was able to let her walls down for a night and it showed me she's still in there somewhere...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What in the world????

You're thinking that your wife wants a separation and has BOUGHT A NEW HOUSE, and she actually is still considering YOU as an option. I'm sorry but I've seen all this poop before from my own ex, and from a lot of others. 
She is STRINGING YOU ALONG, so that she can make a clean break when she has her ducks in a row, and will continue to ACT like she's considering reconciling so she can lie to herself and not feel so bad about breaking the vows.
What you did in saying you don't love her--- that was just plain old wrong and senseless. But make no mistake--- couples can say all kinds of bad stuff to one another and get over it when they both WANT to. She didn't love you anymore and she's using that as an excuse. Plain and simple.

I hope you get your wife back like you want, and I'm all wrong. What I'm telling you is I believe that you're seeing what you want to see and not reality. She's gone, dude. She bought a house for goodness' sake. Don't let her lull you into not taking action with an attorney and protecting yourself. Just protect yourself NOW. Please. We've seen all this pseudo-reconciling stuff before out of these walkaways. "she's still in there somewhere"............ poor guy. I was there once, too.

DO NOT BELIEVE what she SAYS. BELIEVE WHAT SHE DOES. I was told that here before, and it was some of the best advice I received. You would be appalled at what my ex did with me to pretend like she wanted to reconcile. I am still to this day ashamed at participating in it.
What she does. Keep repeating that. What she does. Not how she acts, how she talks. What she DOES.

What she has DONE:

Asked to separate from you.
Had an "EA" (yeah, right, it was just an EA) with her boss. Either way, an EA can remove feelings for a spouse just as easily as a PA.
She has stopped having sex with you.
She has bought another home.
STILL working with the boss that you know she has emotional involvement with. Just catching a glimpse of him is enough to keep it going in her head. Working with him? Just plain poison for your relationship.

Now, what more do you want? Well you'll be getting served soon enough most likely, unless you're still providing for her in some way. Then maybe you'll believe that she wants a divorce.

Again, I'm hoping for you that I'm totally in the wrong. However, she has bought a new house. Seems she might actually want to live in it. So you're going to have a separation that SHE wants. Want to guess why she wants to separate? Think old bossy boy is coming to visit at that new home and do you think you'll have a key? You should research how many marriages survive a separation, especially when a third party is involved. And you still have a 3rd party involved, make no mistake about that.


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## KJ_Simmons (Jan 12, 2016)

allnamesaretaken said:


> And also... I went out with her to her brother's over the weekend.. Now granted she was super drunk.. She was actually very fun and flirty with me... Pretty much back to normal for the night.. And ya know what.. I'll take that as a good sign because in my experience.. Alcohol doesn't make you a different person.. I've always seen it as a truth serum.. It lets you be more of yourself.. So she was able to let her walls down for a night and it showed me she's still in there somewhere...


LOL...you're really grasping at this point buddy.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Drunk?

So, you guys had sex and now you feel safe, with alcohol involved. Are you planning on keeping her drunk the entire time you try to repair your marriage?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

aine said:


> I note you put all the blame on your ex wife for wanting your attention. (Cheating was a wrong way of dealing with the problem) All too often men once they get married, have the wife and kids, get wrapped up in their careers, hobbies etc and the wife may tell them that she is feeling lonely, unloved, lack of emotional connection etc but all too often it falls on deaf ears for years and years. Why didn't you take the emotional temperature of your first marriage? Sometimes men are lazy creatures and don't bother doing anything until the **** really hits the fan but then it is too late.
> For years i told my husband i felt abandoned and alone due to his work and drinking and he didn't bother changing. He even had the attitude what was I going to do or where was I going to go as I had kids and he knew I wouldnt break up the family. Now he knows different cause I could walk in a heart beat. Why do men let it get to that stage? I know I'll get some brick bats for this but I see it happen time and time again. Is it because the woman is not attractive if she wants her needs met?


Sounds quite a bit different than what I heard alexm describe.

It's not a man thing. It is a those-particular-men thing. It is a wrong-sort-of-man thing, and there is a very similar wrong-sort-of-woman thing out there too.

I find it to be especially attractive for a woman to expect to be treated with respect and love, to have boundaries, to know what she wants and needs and to express it, and to respect and love herself. It feels safe. It is something often admirable, because it often takes work and thought and hard lessons for someone to reach that level ease and conviction.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

PieceOfSky said:


> Sounds quite a bit different than what I heard alexm describe.
> 
> It's not a man thing. It is a those-particular-men thing. It is a wrong-sort-of-man thing, and there is a very similar wrong-sort-of-woman thing out there too.
> 
> I find it to be especially attractive for a woman to expect to be treated with respect and love, to have boundaries, to know what she wants and needs and to express it, and to respect and love herself. It feels safe. It is something often admirable, because it often takes work and thought and hard lessons for someone to reach that level ease and conviction.


Yes, you are right, we cannot generalise. I have been told in the past, I'm demanding! This is from a man who expected everything for himself without giving little in return. There are many selfish people in marriages, men and women. A marriage is never about 'what I can get?" but 'what can i give?'


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aine said:


> I note you put all the blame on your ex wife for wanting your attention. (Cheating was a wrong way of dealing with the problem) All too often men once they get married, have the wife and kids, get wrapped up in their careers, hobbies etc and the wife may tell them that she is feeling lonely, unloved, lack of emotional connection etc but all too often it falls on deaf ears for years and years. Why didn't you take the emotional temperature of your first marriage? Sometimes men are lazy creatures and don't bother doing anything until the **** really hits the fan but then it is too late.
> For years i told my husband i felt abandoned and alone due to his work and drinking and he didn't bother changing. He even had the attitude what was I going to do or where was I going to go as I had kids and he knew I wouldnt break up the family. Now he knows different cause I could walk in a heart beat. Why do men let it get to that stage? I know I'll get some brick bats for this but I see it happen time and time again. Is it because the woman is not attractive if she wants her needs met?


As a man I don't think you are wrong at all, I think this contributes to some of the cheating and heartbreak we see, though that is no excuse, woman should leave and not cheat, once there is cheating the high road is lost and the wives who cheat are much worse. 

I am not speaking for you husband here as I don't know him but I will say in general, many men were not taught that we need to provide emotionally for our wives just as much as financially. This is similar to how many woman don't understand how sex is an emotionally bonding act for lots of men. Sex for men is how we express love in a lot of ways. The genders are different even though for the last 20 years the general thought has been we are not that different. In this respect we are. If both sexes understood and excepted this about each other we would have much better relationships. 

So back to my theory, men are NOT taught that they need to emotionally provide, and in many cases they are not given the tools how to do that in the first place. If you have never been taught to talk about your emotions or worse been taught that emotions are not to be talk about because it makes you weak, it is very hard to just change and learn to do this. Now this doesn't mean that some men aren't just selfish, of course some are, but I know many think when they go out and work hard that they are fulfilling there role as a provider and husband and that's it. I also think when some guys wives tell them they are feeling a lack of emotional connection to them it's like saying - "my transmission is dead" to someone who doesn't know anything about cars. They are like, what the hell do I know about that. They don't know how to even ask. Besides they are not supposed to ask because that makes them look weak. They feel powerless to fix it. So they just get mad or shrug. 

Think about it before the advent of the industrial revolution getting food on the table really was about life and death. So when the man spent all his time doing that, damn straight he was doing his job. We are kind of still stuck in this mentality. Today our lives are different woman can support themselves getting food on the table most often is done by both partners. Culture is just catching up to this fact in many ways. If you have sons teach them this, my mother taught me and I am a better husband because of it. My Dad didn't say a think about this to me. He doesn't get it, he is a product of his generation. I was lucky enough to have a resource in a mother who asked me what was I feeling and told me to talk about them. She would always tell me when you get married you can't go to your room when you get home like you do now. You need to talk to your wife, she needs that from you. I was well aware that emotional protection and provision was my responsibility to her. 

Anyway my = 2 cents.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

allnamesaretaken said:


> She did ask me to go with her and check it out before she signed the contract to see if I liked it... *Then she gave me some nonsense about not being able to picture me there with her "right away". That she just needs some time alone first.. Just not too sure what she's looking for in that time alone...
> 
> *And also... I went out with her to her brother's over the weekend.. Now granted she was super drunk.. She was actually very fun and flirty with me... Pretty much back to normal for the night.. And ya know what.. I'll take that as a good sign because in my experience.. Alcohol doesn't make you a different person.. I've always seen it as a truth serum.. It lets you be more of yourself.. So she was able to let her walls down for a night and it showed me she's still in there somewhere...


You're really not sure ?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

allnamesaretaken said:


> She would usually try to avoid/end arguements as quickly as possible with no real solution.. Like I said they weren't huge or important.. Just frequent and annoying... She admits that effective communication was always an issue for her... We both have been able to admit what all of our faults were.. And if not already obvious to us.. Ask the other what they think each other's faults were... She is just stuck in a place in her head where she isn't sure if she wants to work on it.. Which leads me to believe the OM is still on her mind.. Regardless of whether or not he is giving her the cold shoulder right now...
> 
> The word love was never thrown around.. There were a lot of jokes that implied fooling around... Including multiple mentions of getting a hotel room.. Talks about wanting to drive the hour distance between them just for a hug or to see each other if only for a second... The most real thing was that they were setting to meet up for drinks a few days later from when I discovered them


He is doing a 180 on her. That is why she is thinking about him still. She sees him in a strong light. It maybe to save his job but it is working.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Seems like anytime a spouse says "I need some time alone", a loud screaming voice inside my head says "I need some time alone with my affair partner".

Anytime a woman says she "needs space", what she means is "I need about 10 miles of space between my affair parnter and you, husband".

When they say "I need some time to think", they really mean, "I need some time to think about how me and my affair partner are going to spend more time together, without you, husband; and I am thinking really freaking hard about how I'm going to keep your income and emotional/financial security coming in-- old affair partner's wife could find out at any time and you could prove useful if you could just ignore me getting banged by other men regularly".

One thing is for certain, when one's wife buys another house and you're still married---- that's a pretty firm sign their plans for the future don't include their husband. Packing her **** up is a pretty good sign she's gone.

I'm glad OP is doing the 180 on her. She is quite the liar and probably worse. Really doing a number on OP's head.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

OP, she is moving out getting her own place. Pretty easy looking from the outside this is not good at all. 

Going to stay with family to clear ones head and BUYING a house are two completely differene scenarios. One is too relax away from you with family to she how she feels. The other is to have a place to be with other poeple. 

So, the othe night she had to much to drink and you had a good time with her. You think this is a good sign. Do you not think she might be putting these walls up so she can disconnect from you completely. 

Time to wake up and stand up for yourself. 

What has being at her bec and call gotten you.

She has already given you the ILYBNILWY speach. She has already say to two of you aren't living as husband and wife. 

Do not help her move out. Do you really want to get her new home, away from you, ready for her to entertain other men? This is the only reason not to stay with family. 

Let her know when she leaves she is on her own and the next step is filing for divorce. 

You need to show strength now. Stop groveling and start The 180. Being all nice and kissing bum has gotten you nothing. 

Expose the affair to the OM's wife. She deserves to know the truth. Your WW wife telling you that if you tell your marriage is over. This should have told you exactly where you stood her order of importance. The bottom.

Start letting friends know what she did as well. That way she is not able to blame shift this to you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I was jogging down our street and noted a giant Christmas Snoopy being inflated.

At first he was a disheveled bag of vinyl. He had no shape and no spine. Not attractive to anyone.

This is you.

Puff yourself up, stand erect.

Oh, once you are full of fresh air, break your mooring lines. Let the wind take you.

Let her see a big happy man leave her in the lurch. With you looking down...literally looking down on her. Show contempt....minus the snarl.

Selfish behavior on her part requires, NO, DEMANDS consequences. Do the hard 180 on her. Diamond, glinting teeth bared, hard.

Do not be mean....be scarce and cold.


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## allnamesaretaken (Sep 27, 2016)

Well here's a little update guys... I was able to get her back... She asked me to move in with her... We've been in the new place for a week.. And I've got friends staying in our old house for the time being..(which i don't think is very legal.. Should probably be going through the process of registering as a landlord?? Don't think I can just let people stay there... But that's a topic for another forum hah) Her and I are having sex regularly and everything relationship wise is going smoothly... Only problem now is the feeling I get from being in this house.. (Some people can just never be happy I guess haha) I thought getting her back would fix everything... But this place that she picked on her own just isn't something that l would have chosen had I been a part of it... Part of me wants to go back home.. And see if she chases me like I chased her... Stuck choosing between my life and my wife


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Stop worrying. Clear you will never be happy no matter what happens in your life. Might as well accept that your default mood is internally conflicted and stop paying any attention to what bothers you. Something always will. 

I am that way. That should terrify you. Commit to being less and less like me every day.


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## karlmazur5 (Nov 14, 2016)

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Lostinthought61 said:


> let me get this straights , she has the affair, gives you a lot of crap and now she gets to make the rules....screw that...this is when you put your foot down and tell her how it will work of she can move out for good.


ya know, when he puts it that way, it makes perfect sense


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