# Help moving on . . .



## rcjk (Nov 7, 2013)

Hi - I am still in shock after discovering my husband's betrayal this past May. We have been married for 20 years and like most wives, I never dreamed he could betray me. He is 41 and I am 43. We have two wonderful children and just completed building our dream home. I always knew that my husband liked to watch porn but other than that, I had no reason to believe he would betray me. On one Sunday afternoon in May he and my children had left to go play golf. He had accidently left his phone at home. For some reason, when I saw it there, I checked the messages. The first one I saw was a message to a young 23 year old that I only knew by name that said "Good Morning". My heart immediately sank. I confronted him that afternoon and he told me that he 23 year old were just good friends but that he wanted out of our marriage. I was in total denial and shock. I loved this man with all my heart. I spent the rest of the afternoon and night begging him not to leave me. I fought to keep him. He agreed to not leave right away while we tried to figure things out. During our discussions he told me that he had downloaded an app on his phone that was called "GPS Golf" or something like that which actually hid their text messages from the normal texting app. He told me that they were work out partners at the gym and that was the extent of their relationship. The next morning I checked his phone records. I found that he had been texting her for over six months and the texting was extensive. There were days where there were over 100 messages between them. They would start first thing in the morning and last until late at night. He continues today to tell me that it was just a "friendship". He did admit that they would talk about how good she looked and that she had on a couple of occasions offered to have sex with him at her place. He says he never acted on this. He also says that they never met anywhere but the gym. This is really hard for me to believe, but he did immediately quit contacting her via text after the day I discovered it. I check his phone records regularly and there has been no phone calls or texts between the two since then. He has discontinued going to the gym after work and now goes at 5:30am. The fact that she is 23 bothers me and the fact that they talked extensively pretty much everyday for 6 months kills me. Of course after discovering this one of the first things I did was start going thru his cell phone records. I also found two other numbers that had an overabundance of messages. One stopped suddenly and the other number immediately started after it ended. I googled the first number and to my dismay it was a number for an escort in Denver, CO. We live 5 hours from Denver. I couldn't find any information from the second number. I confronted him about this first number and he told me it was truck driver who was delivering to our business. I showed him what came up when the number was googled. He played it off and told me that it was a truck driver. I didn't believe him but did further investigating. He had just got a new phone as his old one was having problems. I decided to get the old phone out and see if he left anything on it. There was only one day worth of messages and some pictures - of a naked lady. To my dismay, this lady looked exactly like the escort from the googled number. I knew then that they were the same person. I again confronted me and he continued to deny everything. Only after spending weeks investigating did I get him to admit that one of the numbers was this escort in Denver. He says he didn't know she was an escort. He said that he met her in Las Vegas at the Sapphire Gentlemen's Club in December, 2011. We had been treated to a trip to Vegas by a salesman we do a lot of business with. There were three couples that went, and we are all good friends. One day the girls went to the spa and he tells me that the salesmen had arranged for three strippers to meet them at this club. He says they were the only ones there. He tells me that one of them gave him her phone number. He says he did nothing with it until one day he decided to text her. Then he said they began talking. This went on for a year and a half. They texted almost everyday and usually several times a day. I can tell from the phone records that she sent him several pictures. He says he never saw her again and that he never paid her for anything besides a lap dance that day at the Vegas club. I have such a hard time believing this. How does a stripper/escort just text an older gentleman over and over and send him numerous pictures without expecting something in return. Anyway I did get him to finally admin that the two numbers both belonged to this stripper/escort. He said that one was her work number and that she asked him to start using her personal number. For at least two months I could do nothing but investigate. I also found that everytime I was out of town or he was out of town, he would send messages to escorts on Backpage. In the last year or so, I found over 30 contacts to escorts. I did find one that was local. I confronted him about these and he said he never met with any of them. He said it was just a thrill to talk with them and hear what they would do if he was willing. This is really hard for me to believe/understand also. He has been so apologetic during this process and agreed to go to counseling. He did see a counselor and I believe that he isn't doing these things anymore. My problem is I can't get past the 23 year old or 27 year old stripper. I am devastated and have this constant sadness and depression. He has devoted himself to me since the discovery, but I just can't help believe that he isn't being honest with me. I love him, but can't go thru this again. I don't want to live the rest of my life not being able to trust him. What's everyone's opinion?


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

You titled this "Help moving on". Is that what you want to do? leave him and move on? 

Many posters here will advise doing just that, me being one of them. But it's your choice. 

Look up and do the 180, then see how you feel. He's most likely gone physical with these girls. He needs to experiences some consequences, don't make this easy for him. 

Trust is now broken, very hard to get it back, and IMO will never be close to 100%. I wish you the best.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

Just sent you a pm. Sorry you're here.

Right now, take care of yourself. Try to remember to eat and drink....get some fresh air. Definitely look up the 180 and start doing it for yourself.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Your gut is saying that there is more, isn't it? Typically your gut will be correct. There is more to this story. I would say this to you, if a man had a number on his phone to excort services, he used them.

Every time your husband opens up his lips he is lying.

The gym thing with the 23 year old. Pure bull. I suspect with almost 100% certainty that your husband has been doing the deed with other women.

How do I know? I just met you today online and I know a whole lot about your husband already. I know because of what you write and how you write it.

If your husband did not have a physical affair with one or more of these women you will be one of the first, if not the first wife to post here with all these red flags and have a clean husband.

I am leaning towards over 100% certainty that he did the deed.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

rcjk said:


> Hi - I am still in shock after discovering my husband's betrayal this past May.
> 
> We have been married for 20 years and like most wives, I never dreamed he could betray me. He is 41 and I am 43.
> 
> ...


Hi,

You certainly can't live your life not trusting your spouse, but people can change.

It seems very likely that he had sex with the 23 year old, although it is possible that he didn't.

Have you discussed his taking a polygraph?

It is difficult to pull details from your post as it could do with line breaks being added - so I hope you don't mind I did that in the quote above.

What you are going through is incredibly painful.

What are you thinking about your future right now?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

There is very little chance that he didn't have sex with either of these women. Rarely does a man text another woman for that long and for that often if it's "only" an EA. You should absolutely assume PA's and factor that into whether you want to R with him. 

You should also not consider R with him until he admits to the truth. Asking him to take a polygraph is something you should consider, after exhausting all surveillance options.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Unless he is chronically ED I'd guess he's had sex with them all - and lots of it.

Who oversees the finances in your home? I have a feeling that there's a secret bank acct he has access to that you have no knowledge of. 

It's my guess that these young gals see a $ugar daddy in your erstwhile faithful husband. 

I'm cynical so I'm also guessing that his newly found devotion to you is to keep you from investigating further - and perhaps finding that a whole lot of money is missing. 

Shake him up. See a lawyer to find out what rights you are entitled to. Find a polygrapher in your area and find out if it would be worth your while in getting one done. 

Hang tough.


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## rcjk (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks for your response but I didn't get your PM now awake.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

> He continues today to tell me that it was just a "friendship". He did admit that they would talk about *how good she looked* and that she had on a couple of occasions *offered to have sex with him at her place. He says he never acted on this.* He also says that they never met anywhere but the gym. This is really hard for me to believe...


Yes. Because it's unbelievable. 

You're married to a cheater and a very bad liar. Sorry.


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

I'm also going to say that I think he's cheating.. He sounds like my STBXH way too much.. The excuses.. Not buying it.. 

He's lying.. And a lot.. I don't imagine that escorts, aka prostitutes, sit and chat on the phone to a NON-PAYING customer about what they would do to him.. Maybe once.. MAYBE twice.. But over and over and over again? They have a job. A job they get paid to do.. They aren't going to do it for free, know what I mean? And that's essentially what he's asking you to accept.. 

Honestly, I think your title says it.. My STBXH insists that I never found "actual" proof. i.e. a video, caught him, etc.. I did find his dating website, a PM on FB from one of the bimbos, had a confession from my now exfriend, and other numerous texts.. So, in his mind, he wasn't actually convicted.. 

Funnily enough, his exwife, who cheated on him? Used the same ploy.. I guess that's where he learned it from  

You know in your heart. Trust it.. What more do you need? Have some faith in yourself and your intelligence..


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Oh boy. This is my husband exactly. There has been sex and lots of it.

I'm sorry but I heard the same lies. Just awful. You are going to be in shock for a while so doing do anything rash just yet.

Stop having unprotected sex and get tested for STD's. It's humiliating but it needs to be done.

Your husband will lie about it all. Don't fall for any of it. You will be trickle truthed forever and still won't get the whole story.

Your husband is a serial cheater and the person you loved is gone. I know how sad it is but stay here and you will get some decent advice.

My opinion is he will never change. You can live with this and never trust him or divorce him and move on.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm sorry your here too. Just the start of a very nasty ride. This world that we find ourselves in that we had no choice in choosing is just awful.

There is a lot of great advise on TAM, wish I had found it so early on. Hang in there, it may not seem it, but,you're not alone. 

~ sammy


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Whoops.. Just posted something to wrong thread, sorry. 

Chris: You the man.

OP: Why can't you believe him being honest? I know womenfolk can accurately smell dishonesty, just wanted to know. And it will help you let it out to write it I believe.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

browneyes74 said:


> I'm also going to say that I think he's cheating.. He sounds like my STBXH way too much.. The excuses.. Not buying it..
> 
> He's lying.. And a lot.. I don't imagine that escorts, aka prostitutes, sit and chat on the phone to a NON-PAYING customer about what they would do to him.. Maybe once.. MAYBE twice.. But over and over and over again? They have a job. A job they get paid to do.. They aren't going to do it for free, know what I mean? And that's essentially what he's asking you to accept..
> 
> ...


Oh, Browneyes, I can think of one reason why an escort would want to communicate over and over with an older man. For free. Because she wanted him to save her from her life  and for him to be her sugar daddy.

But, of course, nothing's ever really free.


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

Ah, MattMatt, but there's the catch.. They have a job, and they get paid to do it.. 

One way or the other.. I'm not saying, I'm just saying..


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## chuckawu (Nov 7, 2013)

Many posters here will advise doing just that, me being one of them. But it's your choice.


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

Something that is true for me regarding cheating, and you have to decide if it's true for you is this:

I can forgive, but I can't forget

What that means for me, is this: I could eventually forgive my STBXH (I refuse to call him WH, that seems too nice, for some reason.. just my weirdness, sorry) for cheating, if he were remorseful, apologized for the hurt he caused me, and my children, and owned up to his part in the failure of his marriage.. 

BUT, and it's a big but, I know that eventually, my lack of trust in him would slowly erode the marriage away.. I would try, but, let's face it, there are SO many small times of trust required in a marriage.. he needs to go away for a couple of days.. His cell phone doesn't get signal in an area for a few hours. He's late and forgot to call.. 

I don't think I could ever get back to that level of trust I had for him.. And I would end up making us both crazy.. I remember how crazy I felt the last few months when he was lying to me.. So, he's capable of it. I know that.. and b. those last two days, when I was going through his computer, remotely hacking into his iPhone? 

I don't ever want to have to live that way again.. 

But asking you the question "can you forgive and forget" is premature.. B/c he hasn't confessed. He's still gaslighting.. he hasn't come clean. You don't have the big picture.. You're still trying to draw a picture without a description.. 

I'm sorry for that.. I wish I had the answers.. I will never know how many people my H cheated on me with. I'm sure I will hear about more as time goes on. I don't know how long he's been hooking up with the barfly, although I met her at his friends bar last year.. She's the drunk that takes home men in the hopes that one stays.. Welp, she got her wish this time, b/c he had no where else to go.. But, did he go home with her before? He will NEVER tell me the truth.. And it's just something I have to live with unfortunately.. 

What do YOU feel is the truth? Honestly? Maybe we should all just say, here is the story I got, here is what I think actually happened from that.. I don't know...


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

I wouldn't care if he had sex with them or not. He has done enough, waaaaaay more than enough.

Now, he's almost certainly feeding you a pack of lies. Cheaters will say anything when they are caught and they rarely if ever confess and only admit to what they have to. 

That is why you have to become a snooper extraordinaire. You need to find out yourself. He won't tell you. Go to the evidence gathering thread:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/50563-anyone-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html

Do a 180 on him.

VAR his car and his office. 

Check everything you can, especially your bank accounts, he may have been spending a lot of money on them.

Get tested for STDs.

See a lawyer immediately to get an approximate idea of where you stand. 

I am sorry you are here. Do you have someone you can confide in? If not it might be a good idea to go and see a counsellor as your world has just been turned on its head.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Sadly, "watching porn" is like flirting - there is an important question to ask yourself about any behavior that helps decide if it's on the slippery slope of cheating: would you do it if your spouse was able to see and hear you? (This question doesn't work if the person is cruel in general, because that sort of person doesn't care how much they hurt their spouse.)

For the couples that watch porn together, that's a whole different thing (editorial comment - ick). When a married person watches porn alone, the odds are it is hurtful to the spouse. It involves hiding and secrecy and sex that excludes the marriage partner, and all of those things are corrosive in a marriage.

And I'm in agreement with those who say that it's most likely that there has been sex - WAY too many red flags. Unfortunately, it's probably time for you to go to get a pap with an HPV test (men cannot be tested for HPV, which can lead to cervical cancer if not treated). You may need to consider getting all the other STD tests too, since he may be continuing to see escorts - if he gets STD tested now it won't matter since he could pick up a new disease tomorrow. (FYI, even using a condom doesn't protect against HPV - but LOTS of our unfaithful spouses never bothered with condoms anyway.)

I don't think you can believe much of what he says at this point as he has a track record, starting with the porn, of hiding things from you. It escalated to lying. Now your health may be at risk. Sorry - I know this is a really difficult time for you.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Has he gone to MC with you? 

What has he done to show real remorse? Marriage is hard work and it takes two (and only two) working together to make it work.

If he can not be remorseful, transparent (give you access to everything), loving and honest, you need to do the 180. 

I would also get a recorder in his car to see what else you find out.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

I hope my new pm worked! This is potentially a complex situation. How was your sex life with H? Did he have porn addiction issues? ED? 
In my opinion, it's too soon for MC. He needs to figure out why he did this and get help for it. That is, if you even want to move on with him. You don't have to decide right away. Right now, it's about you taking care of your own needs, independent of what your H does or doesn't do.


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## rcjk (Nov 7, 2013)

Thank you all for your responses. I have been through all of our financial records and can't find where any funds have been diverted. We farm and it is easy for my husband to come up with lots of cash for selling old equipment, metal etc. 

Another question, do strippers/escorts travel? He tells me that he met this one that he had this over year and half texting relationship with in Vegas at a strip club. Then he tells me she lives in Denver. When I found her on "backpage", it states she is in Denver. All the phone records show the texts are to/from Denver.

Another thing I just can't get past is that a young very attractive 27 year old would just text a 41 year old from out in the middle of nowhere in Kansas for nothing in return. He tells me that she just needed a friend. He says he just text her one day out of the blue and it led to numerous texts everyday. She sent pictures to him almost everyday also. I asked him if she ever asked him for $, and he said she did but that he never sent her any. I can also tell from the phone records that he would share these pictures she would send with several of his friends. That is so humiliating to me. I see these men and am friends with their wives. 

We have such a complicated relationship and I really don't have anyone to confide in. My husband works for my family business. He is pretty much running it now. My dad is 72 and is trying to slow down. My mom is in the middle of battling breast cancer and I have a sister who is dependent on the family business for income. 

I'm afraid of what it would do to my family to confide this to them. They all kind of worship my husband as he has had a lot of success in expanding and building the business. 

I do feel he is a sex addict. I have many times told him I don't like that he looks at porn alone and yet he still would. I don't know how long he has been calling escorts, but I know it is as long as I can look back on our cell phone records online.

I just feel so stupid for not seeing this. I look back now and can see so many clues. I just was so naïve and didn't believe that he could do this. He came from nothing and now is living the dream. My family has given him this opportunity, and he has so taken advantage of his position.

I told him I thought he was a sex addict after discovering everything. He did go see a counselor maybe 4-5 time. I don't think he was honest with her as he told me she didn't think he had an addiction. 

Since my discovery, I also struggle with feeling so dirty, almost nasty. How can I be/been with someone who has these type of morals? 

On the one day of texts I found on the old phone, there was also a conversation with one of his friends in which they were talking about our next door neighbor. We had been at a Christmas party the night before, and my husband had danced with her several times. The friend was asking my husband if he was going to pursue her. He said he would like to but that was "a little to close to home." When I asked him about this, he said that was just "guy talk" and that he would never pursue her.

Just so so many things that are red flags now that I totally ignored before.

Again thanks for your support and concern. I'm really struggling and don't know what to do.


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## rcjk (Nov 7, 2013)

I am so tempted to try and get in touch with this escort/stripper and see if she would enlighten me. I don't want to be confrontational with her at all. Although I may not approve, I imagine she was just doing her job. Any advice?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Really sorry about your situation here. His explanation (if I can call it that) is weaker than the Eagles defense this year.

He needs to be honest with you to have a CHANCE at keeping you. You are worth the truth.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

They probably get the curious/angry wife phone call routinely. I wouldnt expect much out of her.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

Many normal therapists wouldn't be able to diagnose your H. He needs a certified sex therapist who knows what they're talking about. The woman he saw may have set him back and enabled him. We were lucky in that we saw a normal therapist who still recognized his addictive personality.

It's possible your H has other addictions.. alcohol? food? Many addicts have more than one addiction. 

I know what you mean; everyone was shocked when they found out about what my H had done. They still kind of try to rugsweep it all since he's such a 'good guy'. Sex addicts are very good at only presenting what they want out in the world. He sure had me fooled for a long time.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

The thing with the neighbor is just guy talk. I don't talk that way but seen it many times.

The issue at this point is not the porn. Don't get side tracked on that.

the issue is the texts. pics, escorts, and the girls.

The issue is not the age of the girls. They are adults and legal. Very common for an older man to hook up with young girls and younger girls to be attracted to older men. If it was reverse as far as gender we would be saying words like "cougar". This is very common.

It is very common also to compare yourself with the young girls. Don't. It will drive you nuts. I looked at the XOMs in my wife's life and said WTH. The last guy had a hugh peni*. Can I compete with that? No. I can't change what I have and personally I think I am more than adequate. So why beat myself up or yourself up if the girls are more attractive, bigger boobs, or whatever. Two weeks ago I was driving home and a girl was standing on the corner running a food stand, she was attractive and came over to my truck and said, man you are good looking, you are a hottie. Made my day, and that was after I told her I was not interested in food. Maybe it was a sales pitch. LOL

You feeling disgusted is normal. But please keep in mind that many of us have been there and it does no good.

I will tell you that your body had nothing to do with your WH's cheating. Nothing at all.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

It would be hard for me to imagine there is anything to salvage. There wouldn't be in my world. Strippers and escorts are pretty practical when it comes to "clients" they are a source of cash...end of story. And yes, strippers and escorts/ hookers travel. Many of them to a guest stint in a legal Nevada brothel. 

Using Backpage is also not something most people just cruise without acting on it. Just my .02, so sorry you are going through this.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

If he admitted that the 27 y/o asked for money, it's practically a certainty that she got it. There's all sorts of ways to get money to someone. Paypal, wire transfers, money orders, etc. 

If he has ready access to cash and is not accountable to anyone it's all the more likely he's spending in on these escorts. It's a business for them. Nothing more. Some of them will travel if expenses are paid. But unless he's been 'on business' for a full day or two, I don't think he'd spend that kind of cash for a few hrs. 

It takes some kind of brass to have 'guy talk' of the sort he had with regard to a neighbor. I suspect his 'guy friend' is in deep too. 

Does he overindulge in drink? Any idea about drugs?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your husband sounds very sure of himself.

The way he is lying to you shows that he does not respect you. 

I don't think he ever will.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Ask him to do a credit check with one of the big 3 credit bureaus. Each one is supposed to provide one free credit check every year. 

They list all the issued credit cards and their status. It doesn't take long and they're very thorough. Do a google search for the credit bureaus (equifax, and transunion are two - I can't recall the other)


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