# In a Tough Situation Met Someone



## martino

Hi, 

I haven't posted here for quite a while. In the past I've posted about my wife being distant and un-emotional and non-affectionate. I've tried over the years to explain that it bothers me and asked her again and again if anything's wrong, she always says: "No that's just how I am." when I ask her to work on it she says "I will" but never does, she never asks me if everything's cool etc. Sex life is ok, she's not really into it and never has been too much so I've always been the higher drive spouse. Basically here I am sharing the same issues I was sharing on here 7-8 years ago. She's a good person, good mother, very high in morals etc, but we're opposites who have made it work somehow. I'm 46 she's 48 We've been married 22 years, known each other for 25 or so. 

We have two kids who are now 9 and 18, one is special needs severely mentally disabled. She works full time, I work part time. I had planned on leaving 9-10 years ago but instead she pushed for another kid and I stayed. My 9 year old is an amazing kid I'm glad I stayed for him only really. 

Fast forward to now, I met a 41 year old woman on You Tube of all places, over the last four months (talking on the phone and texting we've become incredibly close and have a whole lot in common. She's divorced. Yes we haven't met face to face but we likely will in secret. She wants to fly out to meet me, if that goes well, move to my area, get her own job, a place and we do a 1-2 year trial where she is working and we see each other in secret when we can while I decide what to do. She's very understanding to my situation. 

If it even goes this far, I've been reading on the effects of divorce on kids and the spouse and on yourself. (avoiding preachy religious sites.) mixed things are written.

I don't know, just looking for opinions, maybe stories where something like this happened and everything turned out ok. I guess if you're going to say I'm having a "Midlife Crisis" I wouldn't deny that, but it's more wondering if I really want to not have the relationship I want for the rest of my life. My wife is a good person, she just doesn't get it. All the times I've asked her to put the romance novels and TV shows down for quality time she hasn't done anything to put effort into us and it really kills me inside and has for a long time. We're roomates who raise kids, pay bills and have mechanical sex once a week. 

I would appreciate your feedback. Anybody who trashes me for being a cheater, I will just ignore you. I know what I am and know this is immoral so please don't waste your time I've beat myself up inside over this already anyways. If and when the woman flies out we will be having sex obviously. I have strong feelings for her obviously. Is the grass greener on the other side???? I don't know but do I want to die in regret that I settled one day???

Thank You


----------



## Deejo

I think you need a much more solid and well thought out plan for the course of your life other than, "See how it goes."

If you have no intention of divorcing your wife, but want advice on how to foster an affair, the best thing I can tell you, is you are absolutely on the wrong forum. I don't say that with any judgement. You get to make whatever choices you want to. 

But I'd wager folks may have plenty to say about them ... that you won't much like.


----------



## Mylehigh

Both women should and I am guessing probably will dump you.

Man up and tell your wife you are leaving her.

THEN - have your fling and see if it works out. But realize the new woman will never trust you.


----------



## skerzoid

Tell your wife, "Its now or never." If she doesn't get into IC and get her problem worked out, set her free to find someone else that she can be with. If not, then have her served with divorce papers and THEN go to this other woman. Cheating is a sex crime. It is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. You are taking that pretty lightly.


----------



## StillSearching

" I've tried over the years to explain that it bothers me "...That never works.
Find your moral compass, it's the only way to meaning and happiness in your life.


----------



## StillSearching

skerzoid said:


> *Tell your wife, "Its now or never."* If she doesn't get into IC and get her problem worked out, set her free to find someone else that she can be with. If not, then have her served with divorce papers and THEN go to this other woman. Cheating is a sex crime. It is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. You are taking that pretty lightly.


Ultimatums never work as intended.
They might only for a very short time.


----------



## Betrayedone

Your plan is a recipe for disaster. It's also morally bankrupt. Your wife works full time plus she has to deal with a disabled child. That's a lot on her plate. Seems to me she is in survival mode.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Dont be a pig. Divorce your wife.


----------



## notmyjamie

This woman knows you are married and wants to move closer to you to be your mistress? That's a GIANT red flag right there. She's either morally bankrupt or she's got some seriously low self esteem issues and is looking for you to "save" her from something.

You don't want judgement from anyone for your own lack morals with cheating so I wont' go there, but you are stepping from the frying pan to the fire with this one. 

I'd recommend divorcing your wife and meeting someone new once you are free to start a new, real relationship.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Martino here is what i don't understand. explain to me the 1-2 year trial ? what do you hope to understand from the trial ? in essence you know that you are not happy with your wife, are you staying as a safety net if this woman does not work out? please explain the logic that's all.


----------



## Cynthia

What a sleazy, cowardly approach to life and to the lives and feelings of others. I hope and pray that your wife catches you in your filth sooner rather than later.


----------



## Openminded

If you want to be with someone else then divorce your wife first. You, at minimum, owe her that.


----------



## Talk2Me

Yeah, do the right thing. You obviously know the marriage is over but you want your cake and eat it too. Doesn't work that way. Either put the effort in to fix your marriage or leave and pursue someone else after the fact.


----------



## aquarius1

I'm not going to judge. No matter how sorely tempted I am. If you read the Coping with Infidelity section you will see the utter devastation that discovering an affair has on the remaining partner. It can destroy their trust in other humans for an extremely long time.
Road testing an affair is cowardly. You are keeping your wife as Plan B. Please don't. As I told one of my ex-friends who I found out was in a 5 year affair "please. If you don't love your wife anymore. Let her go. She will get over a divorce. She will not get over an affair. You may not love her, but have some respect for the fact that she is a human being who you cared about at one time. Someone who is the mother of your children."
Divorce please. Then you are free to pursue your desires.


----------



## Bibi1031

Why have you been entertaining deceit all this time? If you feel the need to explore other relationships, end the dead one you are in. Do the honorable thing man!

You owe this to your family dude. That family is the soon to be XW and your two kids. Do you really want to get caught in the infidelity web of lies and deceit? Your kids will never again respect you. All these years of being their rock will crumble and that is just plain crazy thinking and acting. Man up and end the marriage ASAP. Then try the two year trial relationship with OW. 

It is not perfect, but you may get a better outcome for all involved, especially for you!


----------



## sunsetmist

How many other affairs have you had (EA or PA) over the years of your miserable marriage to a woman who works full-time and cares for two children (one special needs)? She is not romantic, but reads romance novels and watches romantic shows--likely wishful thinking. Sex has been robotic. You work part-time and have planned divorce for some time, but took a time-out to have another child. Who is the larger wage-earner? Who takes care of the home? What do you do with the rest of your time besides You Tube and cheat?

You knew what to expect from TAM. She will likely welcome divorce--she has felt your disdain for years and has persevered. Tell her you want a divorce and make it smooth for her. IMO: she deserves more and you deserve what you get--who knows what that will be?


----------



## skerzoid

StillSearching said:


> Ultimatums never work as intended.
> They might only for a very short time.


Moral compasses seldom work when the partner is determined to act selfishly. I am trying to get him to inform her that she is about to lose her marriage if she doesn't take action. Realistically, he is going to take the worst possible action. We are trying to get him to take the moral action and let her know where she stands. You advise him to suffer in silence? She is standing on the edge of disaster and needs to wake up.


----------



## Marc878

Although your current wife probably will never change you now have transformed yourself into a cake eating cheater.


----------



## WorkingWife

martino said:


> I don't know, just looking for opinions, maybe stories where something like this happened and everything turned out ok. I guess if you're going to say I'm having a "Midlife Crisis" I wouldn't deny that, but it's more wondering if I really want to not have the relationship I want for the rest of my life. My wife is a good person, she just doesn't get it. All the times I've asked her to put the romance novels and TV shows down for quality time she hasn't done anything to put effort into us and it really kills me inside and has for a long time. We're roomates who raise kids, pay bills and have mechanical sex once a week.
> 
> I would appreciate your feedback. Anybody who trashes me for being a cheater, I will just ignore you. I know what I am and know this is immoral so please don't waste your time I've beat myself up inside over this already anyways. If and when the woman flies out we will be having sex obviously. I have strong feelings for her obviously. Is the grass greener on the other side???? I don't know but do I want to die in regret that I settled one day???


It sounds like you have been very unhappy for a very long time, and tried to make it work but it just is not. That has nothing to do with Ms. YouTube. Honestly, I'd be surprised if Ms. YouTube works out long term. There is so much fantasy and only seeing the good side of someone with these internet "friendships." HOWEVER, sometimes it takes falling for someone new and being exposed to how they see you and interact with you to give you the motivation to get OUT of a really sad marriage.

I'm not going to trash you, but I would advise you do not go the secret affair route. I advise you imagine in your mind that your choice is 1) Staying with your wife or 2) Being on your own with no romantic certainty. Which would you prefer? To keep the wife and family, or to be out of the marriage with access to your children but no wife?

If you realize you really want out of the marriage regardless of Ms. YouTube, then I would tell your wife you are divorcing her and start the process as soon as possible. BEFORE things solidify with Ms. Youtube. Keep your conscience and your actions as clean and fair as possible. Your wife is not a monster, she doesn't deserve that betrayal. And when you get caught you go from a neglected husband who gave up, to a cheating husband who deceived his poor wife, and Ms. YouTube becomes PERSONA NON GRATA with your future ex and all inlaws and many friends and you are both treated like pariahs at future family events that involve your children, like graduations and weddings. And your children are taught that SHE is the woman who wrecked the marriage.

You don't need to be that person. You know you want out, you've known it for years. Unless you really would rather be with your wife than no one. In which case, you really don't want a divorce. But why add cheater to your resume?


----------



## WorkingWife

StillSearching said:


> Ultimatums never work as intended.
> They might only for a very short time.


That is only true if you are issuing the ultimatum as a means to manipulate. But sometimes and ultimatum is just FACTS - I am not happy and will not remain in this situation. I do not accept that (xyz, abc) in my life. It's just a fact. Then the ultimatum works because you can fish or cut bait.

If the other person says "I can change, I can do better" but then doesn't, then you walk because the ultimatum was not just a tool to try to get them to do something, it was a simple fact - I'm not willing to continue like this.


----------



## EleGirl

martino said:


> Hi,
> 
> I haven't posted here for quite a while. In the past I've posted about my wife being distant and un-emotional and non-affectionate. I've tried over the years to explain that it bothers me and asked her again and again if anything's wrong, she always says: "No that's just how I am." when I ask her to work on it she says "I will" but never does, she never asks me if everything's cool etc. Sex life is ok, she's not really into it and never has been too much so I've always been the higher drive spouse. Basically here I am sharing the same issues I was sharing on here 7-8 years ago. She's a good person, good mother, very high in morals etc, but we're opposites who have made it work somehow. I'm 46 she's 48 We've been married 22 years, known each other for 25 or so.
> 
> We have two kids who are now 9 and 18, one is special needs severely mentally disabled. She works full time, I work part time. I had planned on leaving 9-10 years ago but instead she pushed for another kid and I stayed. My 9 year old is an amazing kid I'm glad I stayed for him only really.
> 
> Fast forward to now, I met a 41 year old woman on You Tube of all places, over the last four months (talking on the phone and texting we've become incredibly close and have a whole lot in common. She's divorced. Yes we haven't met face to face but we likely will in secret. She wants to fly out to meet me, if that goes well, move to my area, get her own job, a place and we do a 1-2 year trial where she is working and we see each other in secret when we can while I decide what to do. She's very understanding to my situation.
> 
> If it even goes this far, I've been reading on the effects of divorce on kids and the spouse and on yourself. (avoiding preachy religious sites.) mixed things are written.
> 
> I don't know, just looking for opinions, maybe stories where something like this happened and everything turned out ok. I guess if you're going to say I'm having a "Midlife Crisis" I wouldn't deny that, but it's more wondering if I really want to not have the relationship I want for the rest of my life. My wife is a good person, she just doesn't get it. All the times I've asked her to put the romance novels and TV shows down for quality time she hasn't done anything to put effort into us and it really kills me inside and has for a long time. We're roomates who raise kids, pay bills and have mechanical sex once a week.
> 
> I would appreciate your feedback. Anybody who trashes me for being a cheater, I will just ignore you. I know what I am and know this is immoral so please don't waste your time I've beat myself up inside over this already anyways. If and when the woman flies out we will be having sex obviously. I have strong feelings for her obviously. Is the grass greener on the other side???? I don't know but do I want to die in regret that I settled one day???
> 
> Thank You


Ok, most are beating up on you pretty badly. Not going there....

You met a woman on YouTube 4 months ago and now she is talking about meeting you in person, if all goes well giving up her entire life and moving to where you live and having an affair with you. She's going to get a new job. 

What's her income potential? Would she earn more than your wife? More than you?

Who earns more in your marriage, you or your wife?

So here we have a woman who is basically willing to give up everything for some guy she has never met in person. What do you know about her real life? Have you check out to make sure that she is who she says she is? Have you called her work place to make sure she actually works where she says she does? Does she have children? Whose her ex(es)? Have you done any kind of background check on her? I would be very very careful about anyone I met online was so willing to give up their lives. I would do a background check as well. Is this woman really ready to be the step mother of a little boy who will probably hate her (yes most children hate their step mother, especially when she is clearly who broke up their home)? Is she ready to take on 50% care of a severely disabled child?

I'm not against meeting someone online and forming a relationship with them. But there is a way to do it that ensures you know who you are dealing with. Realize that a person can be anyone that they want to be online. They can be anyone that they want to be for a short visit. Anyone who is willing to give up their life for a 4 month on-line relationship has a screw loose.

If you are that unhappy in your marriage, get a divorce and set up joint custody. Take both of your children 50% of the time.


----------



## WorkingWife

EleGirl said:


> They can be anyone that they want to be for a short visit. Anyone who is willing to give up their life for a 4 month on-line relationship has a screw loose.


This is a really good point. Normal, well adjusted people don't do that. This could be a match made in heaven and I'm sure it's feeling like that to the OP right now. But the odds of that actually being the case are extremely small. It takes a long time to get to know someone and real life interaction will always be more complicated/difficult than on line.




EleGirl said:


> If you are that unhappy in your marriage, get a divorce and set up joint custody. Take both of your children 50% of the time.


[/QUOTE]

Exactly. If you (OP) are so unhappy, and it sounds like you really are, then you should be willing to leave your wife BEFORE starting an affair. Especially if you want your new woman to have any real chance of a good relationship with your children.


----------



## Blondilocks

OP, you have too much time on your hands. How about you get a full-time job and your wife work part-time so she can sit home and have internet affairs and plan her future that doesn't include you.


----------



## OnTheFly

If the pattern holds, Martino will be back in six years for an update.

He knows it's wrong and doesn't care.

He doesn't want to be preached to.

He just wants positive feedback that this ''plan'' will all work out for him. (only in a Hollywood movie....where the wife is an extreme *****, and the child is miraculously healed by the love of the other woman)

He's either in a fog, astoundingly immature, or a person of low quality (maybe all three.)

This is not an attack, just an observation.


----------



## Spicy

Stop for a moment, and imagine that your wife has been carrying on an affair. You find out it has been going on for a couple of years. 

They met online and he moved to your town, and he has been banging her every chance he got since he arrived. They sneak off and have hot passionate sex. All the stuff she won’t do with you, she does with him because he’s a great lover. 

Still, she lets you stick it in her once a week to keep you thinking all is well. She’s figuring out who she wants to be with. She hopes he doesn’t come with any STDs. She’s pretty sure he’s clean.

How would you feel?


----------



## martino

Um, not good!


----------



## martino

The You Tube woman has a 20 year old daughter and is getting a divorce (NOT FOR ME) her husband she says is very controlling and only wants to do things he wants to do. They do not have a child together. I've not done a background check. I know her very well but not enough obviously but we've done HOURS on the phone. So if we don't even meet up, how do we get to know each other better?? She is trying to get a remote phone job and another reason she wants to move here is of course for me, but also because her daughter is grown and she hates the brutal heat where she lives. We have an incredibly deep connection and want the same things in life and a relationship. I could end it today and wonder the rest of my life if that was the one I was meant for that got away. My wife is a very good person, has an advanced degree probably makes as much as You Tube and I could earn combined. So if I were to do this, it would be literally starting all over again. And what makes you all so sure my kids would HATE her????? I keep seeing that, how do you know??? At this point I haven't done anything physical with her. I'm very torn about it and at 46 i'm not getting any yoounger. I'm just looking for feedback, go ahead and keep telling me my wife should kick me to the curb.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Divorce your wife. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Talk2Me

I was in a nearly sexless marriage where we were basically roommates. It wasn't always like that but the last 4 or so years we would have sex maybe 3 times a month and it was mostly just going thru the motions. We also hadn't gone on a date in that same time-frame and I was beyond frustrated. I tried everything to get her to change and she just wouldn't. I ended up leaving and quickly found someone else. In the process I lost EVERYTHING. I had to sell my business, my cars, my camper, and I gave her our brand spanking new house. I literally had nothing financially and let's just say the past 2 years have been really difficult financially.

However, the woman I met is awesome and I'm happy now. My son loves her and she's great with him. My ex wife has a fairly steady boyfriend and I think she is somewhat happy. It was hard leaving a long term relationship but I'm glad I did. 

My advice is that if you want to leave then leave now. Don't sneak around behind her back and destroy her in the process. Do the right thing. It's a def risk leaving esp. if she makes the money but money is a renewable resource and it can be replaced.


----------



## martino

Now I have somebody that get's it. And no I'm not just looking for someone to say go ahead and do it. It's not just about sex. Wife and I have no connection, I've brought it up and she listens then does nothing. She's become lazy and complacent actually has been for years. (the other day I put this to the test and started hugging on her not expecting sex and she blew me off for Candy Crush!! F'in Candy Crush!!! I think she knows I've got it good (with her being the primary bread winner) and figures she has nothing to worry about. So the big question I'm constantly asking is do I POTENTIALLY break up my family, go back to work full time and take a gamble on the one I think could meant for me? (I know that sounds cheesy but it's how I feel.) My disabled child likely wouldn't be affected, my non-disabled really would be I think.


----------



## Talk2Me

martino said:


> Now I have somebody that get's it. And no I'm not just looking for someone to say go ahead and do it. It's not just about sex. Wife and I have no connection, I've brought it up and she listens then does nothing. She's become lazy and complacent actually has been for years. (the other day I put this to the test and started hugging on her not expecting sex and she blew me off for Candy Crush!! F'in Candy Crush!!! I think she knows I've got it good (with her being the primary bread winner) and figures she has nothing to worry about. So the big question I'm constantly asking is do I POTENTIALLY break up my family, go back to work full time and take a gamble on the one I think could meant for me? (I know that sounds cheesy but it's how I feel.) My disabled child likely wouldn't be affected, my non-disabled really would be I think.


The Candy Crush comment made me laugh a little because a week or so ago a Facebook memory came up where I said that my wife cares more about Candy Crush than about me and that I left our campground and went home. haha My ex wife was beyond lazy and didn't ever want to leave the house. I went to marriage counseling alone because she wouldn't come. When I came home with an idea she would respond "did you get that from your crazy doctor?" I owned a gym and trained mostly women. They would flirt with me and I would go home and my wife would do exactly what you described. It's taken me 2 years to be able to finally rebuild financially and in the process of opening a new gym. (I had a 2 year no compete) 

Will the woman you're talking to be the one? Who the hell knows but if you're unhappy and you know nothing will ever change why waste any longer dealing with it? Just do it the right way and leave prior. It's scary not knowing if we will end up all alone and it's certainly a risk but I would rather be solo right now than be back with my ex. Sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side but many times it is.


----------



## martino

Thank you!


----------



## EleGirl

martino said:


> The You Tube woman has a 20 year old daughter and is getting a divorce (NOT FOR ME) her husband she says is very controlling and only wants to do things he wants to do. They do not have a child together. I've not done a background check. I know her very well but not enough obviously but we've done HOURS on the phone. So if we don't even meet up, how do we get to know each other better?? She is trying to get a remote phone job and another reason she wants to move here is of course for me, but also because her daughter is grown and she hates the brutal heat where she lives. We have an incredibly deep connection and want the same things in life and a relationship. I could end it today and wonder the rest of my life if that was the one I was meant for that got away.


If you want to pursue this relationship, you need to man up and divorce your wife BEFORE you start the relationship. You are already in an emotional affair. 

Just realize that it might not work out. Only about 3% of affairs ever end up in long-term relationships/marriages. Most break down once the married partner(s) leave their spouse. Why? Because their spouse is meeting some of their emotional needs. So once they leave their spouse, they put more pressure on their affair partner to meet those needs. And that's not the relationship that the affair partner signed up for.



martino said:


> My wife is a very good person, has an advanced degree probably makes as much as You Tube and I could earn combined. So if I were to do this, it would be literally starting all over again.


Why are you working only part time?



martino said:


> And what makes you all so sure my kids would HATE her????? I keep seeing that, how do you know???


Statistically, most children do not like their step-mother. They are more likely to have good feelings for a step-father. Why? Probably because children are usually more attached to their mother, so a step-mother is a threat to their primary relationship.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...on-children-and-adults-hate-their-stepmothers

Also, children do not react well to huge decisions that they have no input into that completely turn their world upside down. If you break up your family for this woman, you son is very likely to blame her for his family life being torn apart. Most kids absolutely hate that they now have 2 homes, that they have to go back and forth between them on some arbitrary schedule. Who could blame them.

It's one thing to get a divorce because you are unhappy and see to way to fix things. So then you concentrate on making your child(ren)'s life work. It's another to concentrate on a relationship with a woman making your child the second priority. You son did not pick this woman. He has zero reason to even like her.




martino said:


> At this point I haven't done anything physical with her. I'm very torn about it and at 46 i'm not getting any yoounger. I'm just looking for feedback, go ahead and keep telling me my wife should kick me to the curb.


I would love to hear your wife's point of view on your relationship. One of the problems with a site like TAM is that we only get one side of the story.


----------



## Spicy

Ok, I can see that you really only want to hear people saying positive things about this.

In light of that, here you go:

Sure, it makes perfect sense to decide to leave your kids, (one of whom is disabled), your wife who supports you financially, and your entire life, for a person you met four months ago online. For a person you have never met in real life. You will be _that guy_ to all your friends, family, kids, loyal wife and aquaninstences. The cheater. The guy that left his family to go sneak around with Little Miss YouTube. 

It usually works out great on the MTV show Catfish too.


----------



## WorkingWife

martino said:


> So if we don't even meet up, how do we get to know each other better??


You will have to meet someone to get to know them better. The point is if your intention in meeting them is because you're hoping you'll end up in love and together as a couple, and if you're going to be at all sexual, even just hugging/kissing, why wouldn't you break things off with your wife FIRST? 



martino said:


> I could end it today and wonder the rest of my life if that was the one I was meant for that got away. My wife is a very good person, has an advanced degree probably makes as much as You Tube and I could earn combined. So if I were to do this, it would be literally starting all over again.


Right. But you post as if you plan to just lead your wife along letting her believe everything is fine while you TEST DRIVE another woman. THAT is where it seems your moral compass is pointing south. People get divorced all the time. That's not the problem. It's that you are hanging onto your wife as a safety blanket that you'll keep around for your comfort and security UNTIL something better that you are sure about comes along.



martino said:


> And what makes you all so sure my kids would HATE her????? I keep seeing that, how do you know???


Your kids will hate you *IF* you cheat on their mother with Ms. YouTube. It's highly unlikely they ever accept her if they believe she wrecked your marriage. We know because this is how children react almost every single time. They love their mom and no matter what you tell them about how unhappy and unfulfilled you were, the fact that you chose to lie to and cheat on their mother and give up your marriage FOR THIS OTHER WOMAN will be something they will always remember.

NOW, if you file for divorce and move out and THEN "meet" and start seeing Ms. Youtube, that is a whole other story. Many children have wonderful relationships with their step parents. But if they learn this romance was brewing for months while you treated their mother as if everything was just fine, it will most likely tarnish your GF in their eyes, AND put a big strain on their relationship with and respect for you.



martino said:


> At this point I haven't done anything physical with her. I'm very torn about it and at 46 i'm not getting any yoounger. I'm just looking for feedback, go ahead and keep telling me my wife should kick me to the curb.


I'm confused, are your or are you not planning to get to know this woman romantically and IF it seems it will work out, THEN divorce your wife and if it doesn't work out, then KEEP your wife? So your own wife is plan B, you are planning to make a fool out of your wife by having an affair so you can test drive a new model. What about your wife getting on with her life? What about her hopes and dreams and desires? Her finding someone she clicks with better?

I GET IT - like I said in an earlier post, you have been unfulfilled for years and you are right you are NOT getting any younger. IF you want to start a new life with a new person the sooner you start the more time you'll have to grow close and build memories. Wanting a divorce is not the problem. Nor is having an attraction to another woman make you realize just how much you have been sleep walking through life (IMO). 

The problem is using your wife the way it sounds like you plan to do. If you're not happy - GET DIVORCED. But don't betray your poor wife who even you say is a really good person simply because you want to use her as a backup plan in her own life.


----------



## ConanHub

I think you're playing out in left field dude.

Stinkin thinkin goin on here.


----------



## Bibi1031

Talk2Me said:


> I was in a nearly sexless marriage where we were basically roommates. It wasn't always like that but the last 4 or so years we would have sex maybe 3 times a month and it was mostly just going thru the motions. We also hadn't gone on a date in that same time-frame and I was beyond frustrated. I tried everything to get her to change and she just wouldn't. I ended up leaving and quickly found someone else. In the process I lost EVERYTHING. I had to sell my business, my cars, my camper, and I gave her our brand spanking new house. I literally had nothing financially and let's just say the past 2 years have been really difficult financially.
> 
> However, the woman I met is awesome and I'm happy now. My son loves her and she's great with him. My ex wife has a fairly steady boyfriend and I think she is somewhat happy. It was hard leaving a long term relationship but I'm glad I did.
> 
> My advice is that if you want to leave then leave now. Don't sneak around behind her back and destroy her in the process. Do the right thing. It's a def risk leaving esp. if she makes the money but money is a renewable resource and it can be replaced.



QFT


Haven't you read enough on this site to realize that you are not a special snowflake, and that cheating on your spouse will bite you in the ass. The karma bus will catch up to you. Stop playing with deceit!

Do the honorable thing and end your marriage before starting another relationship dude!

My XH was another of those that thought he was a special snowflake too. Sorry to tell you his plan bit him in the ass. Our children don't respect him because he didn't just cheat on their mom, he broke their home and crushed the whole family for a piece of ass that wasn't worth much. He stupidly thought that if he was happy the kids would be OK with him destroying the family unit in the worst way. He had an affair six months before he dumped us. He was too much of a coward to leave if he was so miserable instead of building a nest with someone else. I discovered the affair because his OW made damn sure I found out of her existence. I snooped and found out he had been having an affair for 6 months! 

The deceit is what he did wrong. If he was so damn miserable why not leave the marriage instead of cake eating. What a ****ty thing to do. Only selfish cowards deceive those they vow to love and forsake all others for. 

Don't be another snowflake; divorce your wife and don't have contact with O W for 3 months. Leave your wife and start new, then once you are free, date openly who ever your heart desires. If this OW of yours is willing to be your side piece for 2 years, wouldn't it be better for all involved if she waits for you 3 months and be the only woman in your life?

My kids and I were blindsided when he told us he had been miserable for years. That was news to us. Needless to say his rewriting of our history was only believable to him. If your children have not lived the hell that made you cheat, what makes you think they will be OK with daddy hurting mommy and leaving her and them for a woman that got involved with a happily married man? Your youngest may not come to this realization right away, but that child will mature real soon and you won't fool him\her for long.


----------



## Mr.Married

CynthiaDe said:


> What a sleazy, cowardly approach to life and to the lives and feelings of others. I hope and pray that your wife catches you in your filth sooner rather than later.


CynthiaDe ..... thank you for that post. I think that is the first time I ever see you lose your $hit. :surprise::surprise::surprise:


----------



## Openminded

You picked the wrong forum to get validation from. There are other sites out there that will encourage you to "follow your dream" as you've presented it but TAM won't.


----------



## martino

I knew there would be nasty comments made, all this moral compass BS pfft! in regards to my wife I JUST DON'T CARE. She chose for the last 10 plus years to ignore my concerns, the times I brought this up. She listened and then didn't care to act. She chose Netflix, she chose her Kindle, SHE acted selfishly and it killed me inside. She's also made a few comments about how she pays the bills, knowing full well that the reason I work part time only is to take care of the kids. Our disabled son sees psychiatrists, medical marijuana, IEP meetings, disability advocates, all other appointments I do that all. Try finding day care for a kid with autism that punches himself in the forehead and flushes everything they can find down the toilet. 

My regret, You Tube woman or not, is not leaving sooner when I was much younger. She over indulges our kids lets them eat junk food and soda as much as they want, (I told her when one of them gets diabetes YOU ARE HANDLING ALL OF THAT!!) buys them electronics without them doing anything for it. My concerns with all this, she could care less does what she wants. If I found out she was cheating I could care less. Now my kids, well that's why I'm here. None of this is their fault and I would feel tremendous guilt if this becomes real. My non-disabled child will be crushed.


----------



## WorkingWife

martino said:


> I knew there would be nasty comments made, all this moral compass BS pfft! in regards to my wife I JUST DON'T CARE. She chose for the last 10 plus years to ignore my concerns, the times I brought this up. She listened and then didn't care to act. She chose Netflix, she chose her Kindle, SHE acted selfishly and it killed me inside. She's also made a few comments about how she pays the bills, knowing full well that the reason I work part time only is to take care of the kids. Our disabled son sees psychiatrists, medical marijuana, IEP meetings, disability advocates, all other appointments I do that all. Try finding day care for a kid with autism that punches himself in the forehead and flushes everything they can find down the toilet.


I understand you are SO OVER IT with her. But what I don't understand is WHY NOT DIVORCE NOW? Is it the money? How your special needs child will be cared for? If it's the money, talk to an attorney, you can get a free consultation. They will most likely tell you she will have to pay alimony and tell you about how much it will be and how long it will last. If you get custody of the children she'll have to pay child support. Though I understand having a special needs child cared for is probably a major expense, but an attorney can give you a good idea of what your options are.

ALSO - I would not normally recommend this, but if you have talked to her about how unhappy you are and she just does not care -- maybe she is only with you because of the kids, the older one in particular, too. Maybe she WOULDN'T care if you had an affair either. Maybe you could work out an in-house separation/divorce where you continue to live together but just as roommates until you both can figure out the logistics for a new arrangement.




martino said:


> My regret, You Tube woman or not, *is not leaving sooner *when I was much younger. She over indulges our kids lets them eat junk food and soda as much as they want, (I told her when one of them gets diabetes YOU ARE HANDLING ALL OF THAT!!) buys them electronics without them doing anything for it. My concerns with all this, she could care less does what she wants. If I found out she was cheating I could care less. Now my kids, well that's why I'm here. None of this is their fault and *I would feel tremendous guilt if this becomes real.* My non-disabled child will be crushed.


Again, why not leave now? What do you mean by "you will feel guilt if this becomes real?" If what becomes real? Your relationship with YT? A divorce? I'm confused because it seems you are actively pursuing the demise of your marriage by pursuing YT. 

Another idea, are you the primary care giver for the SN child? Are you handling that ok emotionally or are you at your wits end? You're making a big sacrifice in earning potential not working full time, but if it is working out for you -- you could look into the costs of having a stranger do all that and maybe your W would be willing to pay YOU to be that person. If you go back to work full time I assume you two will have to pay SOMEONE. That way you could keep working part time, if that's what you want. And she *might *stop and realize how you ARE contributing financially just through all you do.


----------



## NorseViking

martino said:


> We have two kids who are now 9 and 18, one is special needs severely mentally disabled. She works full time, I work part time.


Just FYI. No trashing, just facts I read. A special needs kid can put a hard strain on a relationship. You might need to check into that. Several women who is mother and most like men too to these kids cheat on their spouses. This after reading a lot on infidelity forums. Her behavior is a red flag there. Now you know.



martino said:


> I would appreciate your feedback. Anybody who trashes me for being a cheater, I will just ignore you. I know what I am and know this is immoral so please don't waste your time I've beat myself up inside over this already anyways.


Just do a clean break. Tell your your wife you have met someone else and are interested to divorce her and move on. Just be honest, OK? She deserves that at least.



martino said:


> If and when the woman flies out we will be having sex obviously. I have strong feelings for her obviously. Is the grass greener on the other side???? I don't know but do I want to die in regret that I settled one day???


Some men have regrets afterwards. One man was to dump his wife and children for a woman. His brother gave him a renewed view on the matter. He realized his mistake and came crawling back. Make sure you are absolutely sure. Because then your wife finds herself another man, she is lost to you for ever.

If you want the grass to be greener on your side you need to water and fertilize it. Meaning give and work on the relationship. But, if the partner does not do the same or understand it as you write. Well, you need to decide to move on, yes. Maybe a divorce will wake your wife up. Who knows?

Good luck and good speed.


----------



## NorseViking

martino said:


> She's also made a few comments about how she pays the bills, knowing full well that the reason I work part time only is to take care of the kids.


Yes, breadwinners rule... 
She sees you as a weaker part, I am sure.
She might be a narcissist/bipolar/borderline PD?


----------



## Bluesclues

martino said:


> Now I have somebody that get's it. And no I'm not just looking for someone to say go ahead and do it. It's not just about sex. Wife and I have no connection, I've brought it up and she listens then does nothing. She's become lazy and complacent actually has been for years. (the other day I put this to the test and started hugging on her not expecting sex and she blew me off for Candy Crush!! F'in Candy Crush!!! I think she knows I've got it good (with her being the primary bread winner) and figures she has nothing to worry about. So the big question I'm constantly asking is do I POTENTIALLY break up my family, go back to work full time and take a gamble on the one I think could meant for me? (I know that sounds cheesy but it's how I feel.) My disabled child likely wouldn't be affected, my non-disabled really would be I think.


I would strongly suggest that you get some individual counseling before you make this decision. Not so you get talked into staying, but so that you can be a healthy person in transitioning out of your marriage and eventually into your next relationship. Many times when someone leaves one relationship for another because there are “issues”, they find themselves miserable again in the next relationship after the limerence wears off. That is because they saw the issues in the previous relationship as being the fault of the other person, when in reality they were their own - so they pack them up and bring them to the next relationship and wonder why, especially since it was so great at first. 

The dynamic of my first marriage was similar to yours. I was the breadwinner and my husband stayed home with the kids during the week and worked weekends. We also have a child with a disability, though not severely disabled. He was resentful as hell that I didn’t need him and I was resentful that he didn’t work too hard to make himself an indispensable part of our lives. We did talk about what needed to change and I would change (sex) for a few weeks, but would revert back because he didn’t do any changing (lazy, lying). 

I don’t know why neither of us ever considered divorce before he cheated. I find it odd that we were both so miserable and yet divorce wasn’t even on the table mentally. I think we both felt trapped, stuck. The situation we had set up to work best for our family did not work for either of us as individuals and neither of us had the balls to knock that house of cards down. He was your age when he cheated, majorly under-employed - I am sure the idea of divorce would have been much scarier for him than me. That is probably why he ran back when he cheated. He certainly didn’t want to return to how our life had been, but the fear of not having my support outweighed the high he got from having someone pay attention to him - that and she was just a skag bartender who had her own spouse that was the breadwinner she needed to run back to.

If you don’t know my story, after 18 months of trying to reconcile I determined that the dead weight of a husband I had carried was too much of a burden when you add the cheating. I had an exit affair and kicked him out. Made sure he left the marriage with exactly what he brought to it - a cathode-ray tv and a ****box SUV (I bought the SUV and was being kind). While I don’t regret leaving the marriage, I do regret how I did it. 

My XH is also remarried and they appear to have a better sex life than we did from the emojis I get in accidental texts to me, but I also know they fight about him being lazy and lying. Same issues, different relationship. 

Lastly, your initial post was textbook affair brain. When posters ask “how could she/he do that knowing x?” your post is the answer. Unless you have experienced it you have no idea how powerful it is. It doesn’t matter how much you may have read about infidelity ahead of time, or even have experienced being the BS. You posted about this woman being willing to move across the country and be your side piece for 1-2 years to see if it worked. While we all saw this as red flag of her being pathetic and BSC, you saw it as a positive of her being “understanding.” BTDT. My current husband - then EA affair partner - told me that he needed to let me know that he had cheated on his current wife previously. Instead of alarms going off of a pattern (which it was) my dumb affair-brain heard “I care so much about you and our future that I need to be honest about my past mistakes.” I melted at how honest he was. And since he was so resentful of his horrible wife and told me all of the things she didn’t do, I quickly chalked it up to her being an awful wife and what else could he do? That was after being cheated on myself. Blows my ****ing mind. I am an intelligent woman, even emotionally intelligent, but those rose-colored affair glasses sure do make red flags look pretty.


----------



## Shoyoself

martino said:


> I knew there would be nasty comments made, all this moral compass BS pfft! in regards to my wife I JUST DON'T CARE.


Sooo... the reason for all of the “moral compass BS” is that you are posting to people that have a lot of relationship experience, many of whom have been betrayed by a partner.

I was in a terrible 10 year+ relationship, and I left because it was terrible. A few years later, I met an amazing woman and now we are happily married.

I have been cheated on and it changed the course of my life. It hurts so bad and deep that there’s no comparison.

Please do not do this to your wife.* If you want a selfish, self serving reason to stop your marriage before starting a new relationship, remember that “if they will cheat with you, they will cheat on you.” Also, do you want to have to lie to everyone close to you about when and how your relationship started? *Because that question will come up many times over the years, and your decisions now will you want to be known as a liar, or a cheater, for the rest of your life.


----------



## Casual Observer

Something seems really wrong to me if all of this is going to seemingly come out of the blue to your wife and kids. How can they not know that you're so profoundly unhappy that you're willing to bet the farm on a woman you've met only on the phone or on-line?

In the end, whatever you're facing that's driven you to such lengths to find attention & affection, something is so seriously broken down in your relationship with your wife that it seems as if you'll both be better off being divorced. If I were your wife, I'd have a tough time finding someone trustworthy who's willing to risk being catfished like you are.

Before you go any further, at least do some serious checking on the youtube lady. Run a credit check on her, and if possible, hire someone to dig into her background. 

Which brings up another question. Suppose it turns out this is a scam. What's your next move?


----------



## martino

Thank you for the replies. As far as the Catfish. I've looked her up extensively, we've mailed each other things. Credit check someone said? she just financed a brand new car. She's near divorced because her husband is very similar to my wife in relationship. They have no kids and are almost done, I told her don't divorce him for me, she's not. 

As far as my "try before you buy" scenario...how else do you get to know someone more who's 2,000 miles away, is it morally bankrupt? yeah. My wife knows how she's hurt me. She's stuck inside her own head. I don't want to just leave her if I'm not sure it's going to work with the ow. I'd rather accept what it is we do have for the rest of my life, I'm not going to throw away 22 years just do go out dating and become a weekend "Denny's dad." She's not a bad person, really a half assed and lazy spouse if that makes sense?

As far as the comments about my son special needs and our marriage, yeah it's tough. We went on vacation and I woke up to him smashing his fist into his forehead at 6:30 am. I went in the shower, turned the water on and cried. Here we are on vacation in a new wonderful place and there's autism right there never going away...and he's 18. She makes it tougher because we get behavior therapists that tell her what to do, give her a plan. She never follows through so I don't even know why they come over?? it's a waste of public resource. instead she would rather go get a puzzle piece tattoo. I do listen and implement but she has a different relationship with him. As far as his care, she could switch our Federal care waiver to on-site supports easily. I don't know, then I walk away and start over with ow. 

Thanks


----------



## MattMatt

@martino, you lost me at


> I met a 41 year old woman


You shouldn't have been looking. Should you?

And she is divorced but that's now morphed into "near divorced?"


----------



## Elizabeth001

MattMatt said:


> @martino, you lost me at
> 
> You shouldn't have been looking. Should you?
> 
> And she is divorced but that's now morphed into "near divorced?"




Yeah...I smell a rat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolfman1968

martino said:


> I knew there would be nasty comments made, all this moral compass BS pfft! in regards to my wife I JUST DON'T CARE. She chose for the last 10 plus years to ignore my concerns, the times I brought this up. She listened and then didn't care to act. She chose Netflix, she chose her Kindle, SHE acted selfishly and it killed me inside. She's also made a few comments about how she pays the bills, knowing full well that the reason I work part time only is to take care of the kids. Our disabled son sees psychiatrists, medical marijuana, IEP meetings, disability advocates, all other appointments I do that all. Try finding day care for a kid with autism that punches himself in the forehead and flushes everything they can find down the toilet.
> 
> My regret, You Tube woman or not, is not leaving sooner when I was much younger. She over indulges our kids lets them eat junk food and soda as much as they want, (I told her when one of them gets diabetes YOU ARE HANDLING ALL OF THAT!!) buys them electronics without them doing anything for it. My concerns with all this, she could care less does what she wants. If I found out she was cheating I could care less. Now my kids, well that's why I'm here. None of this is their fault and I would feel tremendous guilt if this becomes real. My non-disabled child will be crushed.


OK, I get it. You're in a horrible marriage. Now, let's think of a good strategy.

Your last paragraph says it all. "My regret, YouTube woman or not, is not leaving sooner when I was much younger," you post. Well, that's it right there. You need to divorce her now. 

She's a horrible wife. If YouTube doesn't work out, would you want to go back to her? Of course not! So why not pull the trigger now? Get divorced! There's so much upside and no downside to doing it now. That's especially true since she's the major breadwinner. Let's do an analysis:

1. The sooner you start divorce proceedings, the sooner you get on with your life.

2. If you got involved with YouTube and she got wind of it, she may try to adjust things for a better divorce settlement, like maybe downgrading her job/income. But if you pull the trigger on divorce now, all the details regarding alimony, child support, etc. will be based on the current situation. (You'd better sanitize your computer and phone to not leave a trail and watch out for key logger programs).

3. If you live in one of the states that has a provision that denies alimony for infidelity, you will be cutting your throat by not pulling the trigger on divorce first. 

4. If you have an affair and THEN divorce your wife, your (non-autistic) child will always resent you. He'll feel you dumped Mom for YouTube. On the other hand, if you pull the trigger on divorce first, AND if you wait a respectable time during separation, you could go forward with more respect from your child. 

5. You can go forward with a semi-clean conscience. There's the Emotional Affair component, but at least you didn't go forward with a full-out physical affair.

6. If YouTube doesn't work out, you're still free of your horrible wife. You can then find a better life partner. You're still young!!

7. A divorce now will start you on the alimony and child support payments. 

It just seems to me to be a total win for you with no downside if you divorce now. So why don't you? That way, you can also look yourself in the mirror knowing you split from your wife before physically cheating. The whole "divorce now" approach just seems to be a win-win from my perspective.


----------



## Wolfman1968

martino said:


> Thank you for the replies. As far as the Catfish. I've looked her up extensively, we've mailed each other things. Credit check someone said? she just financed a brand new car. She's near divorced because her husband is very similar to my wife in relationship. They have no kids and are almost done, I told her don't divorce him for me, she's not.
> 
> As far as my "try before you buy" scenario...how else do you get to know someone more who's 2,000 miles away, is it morally bankrupt? yeah. My wife knows how she's hurt me. She's stuck inside her own head. *I don't want to just leave her if I'm not sure it's going to work with the ow. I'd rather accept what it is we do have for the rest of my life, I'm not going to throw away 22 years just do go out dating and become a weekend "Denny's dad." She's not a bad person, really a half assed and lazy spouse if that makes sense?*
> 
> As far as the comments about my son special needs and our marriage, yeah it's tough. We went on vacation and I woke up to him smashing his fist into his forehead at 6:30 am. I went in the shower, turned the water on and cried. Here we are on vacation in a new wonderful place and there's autism right there never going away...and he's 18. She makes it tougher because we get behavior therapists that tell her what to do, give her a plan. She never follows through so I don't even know why they come over?? it's a waste of public resource. instead she would rather go get a puzzle piece tattoo. I do listen and implement but she has a different relationship with him. As far as his care, she could switch our Federal care waiver to on-site supports easily. I don't know, then I walk away and start over with ow.
> 
> Thanks


OK, the highlighted area above really stood out to me. This is a bad approach. 

You can't hang onto a person just until a better opportunity comes along. It's not like upgrading to the next iPhone. If she's not a good wife, then she's not a good wife. Divorce her. But don't treat people like consumables. One day you may find you're being turned in for a better model. What are you going to do with YouTube in 10 years, when she's showing her age? Trade her in? 

I'm not trying to moralize, what I am saying is that if it is not a good relationship, then END IT. Don't try talking yourself into staying in a bad situation. Because my suspicion is that you are just afraid of being alone, of not having anyone/anything. Otherwise, you would have divorced long before you ever heard of the YouTube woman. I speculate that YouTube woman may seem better than she really is because she represents an escape from your current bad situation. 

But what you need is enough courage and confidence in yourself to just divorce now. Don't be afraid of the unknown. Believe in yourself, and believe that you will make it all right. Then, YouTube becomes irrelevant. 

In a way, Shakespeare's famous soliloquy in Hamlet applies to you:

"who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And *enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action*."

So, it is your fear of the "undiscovered country" of divorce that make you "rather bear these ills that you have than fly to others you know not of."

But you need to have the confidence in yourself to believe that you will successfully navigate the waters of divorce, so that your resolution to divorce will not "lose the name of action".



PS-- And, by the way, if you are the primary caregiver for the children (implied by your reduced employment for your autistic son), then you should get primary custody and your wife become the "Denny's Mom".


----------



## MattMatt

Elizabeth001 said:


> Yeah...I smell a rat.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I smell catfish!


----------



## StillSearching

WorkingWife said:


> *That is only true if you are issuing the ultimatum as a means to manipulate*. But sometimes and ultimatum is just FACTS - I am not happy and will not remain in this situation. I do not accept that (xyz, abc) in my life. It's just a fact. Then the ultimatum works because you can fish or cut bait.
> 
> If the other person says "I can change, I can do better" but then doesn't, then you walk because the ultimatum was not just a tool to try to get them to do something, it was a simple fact - I'm not willing to continue like this.


Every ultimatum is a means to manipulate.
Facts are facts. Not ultimatums.


----------



## Casual Observer

StillSearching said:


> Every ultimatum is a means to manipulate.
> Facts are facts. Not ultimatums.


Not quite sure I get this. How it is any more a means to manipulate as normal conversation, telling someone that x is suffering due to y? I think virtually all communication can fall under the category of "manipulation." Even writing a term paper in college. You're trying to convince someone of something. An ultimatum is simply the logical extension of failure to accomplish whatever it is you've been trying to communicate (manipulate for) over time. Either you understand my viewpoint and act as if it's relevant, or I have to change my expectations and long-term decisions.


----------



## WorkingWife

StillSearching said:


> Every ultimatum is a means to manipulate.
> Facts are facts. Not ultimatums.


So if something is a fact - I will leave IF this change does not take place. Then why are people calling it an ultimatum? I thought an ultimatum was just a "deal breaker" -- If you continue to do xyz or refuse to do abc, I will not remain with you. 

There are some things I would not live with. They might seem big to others - physical abuse, infidelity, doing drugs, etc. Or they might seem small to many others - not liking to have a deep conversation, not liking animals, not having sense of humor compatible with mine - but they are very big deals to me. 

While hopefully all things one would weed out BEFORE getting into the relationship, the remain ultimatums. Either this changes or I don't want to be with you. End of subject.

Now if I won't really leave, but I say I will hoping to get my way, that's a manipulation. And I would get tired of someone who did that very fast. (And THAT'S an ultimatum! ;-))


----------



## personofinterest

martino said:


> Now I have somebody that get's it. And no I'm not just looking for someone to say go ahead and do it. It's not just about sex. Wife and I have no connection, I've brought it up and she listens then does nothing. She's become lazy and complacent actually has been for years. (the other day I put this to the test and started hugging on her not expecting sex and she blew me off for Candy Crush!! F'in Candy Crush!!! I think she knows I've got it good (with her being the primary bread winner) and figures she has nothing to worry about. So the big question I'm constantly asking is do I POTENTIALLY break up my family, go back to work full time and take a gamble on the one I think could meant for me? (I know that sounds cheesy but it's how I feel.) My disabled child likely wouldn't be affected, my non-disabled really would be I think.


You're still a cheater, and that choice is on YOU


----------



## personofinterest

martino said:


> I knew there would be nasty comments made, all this moral compass BS pfft! in regards to my wife I JUST DON'T CARE. She chose for the last 10 plus years to ignore my concerns, the times I brought this up. She listened and then didn't care to act. She chose Netflix, she chose her Kindle, SHE acted selfishly and it killed me inside. She's also made a few comments about how she pays the bills, knowing full well that the reason I work part time only is to take care of the kids. Our disabled son sees psychiatrists, medical marijuana, IEP meetings, disability advocates, all other appointments I do that all. Try finding day care for a kid with autism that punches himself in the forehead and flushes everything they can find down the toilet.
> 
> My regret, You Tube woman or not, is not leaving sooner when I was much younger. She over indulges our kids lets them eat junk food and soda as much as they want, (I told her when one of them gets diabetes YOU ARE HANDLING ALL OF THAT!!) buys them electronics without them doing anything for it. My concerns with all this, she could care less does what she wants. If I found out she was cheating I could care less. Now my kids, well that's why I'm here. None of this is their fault and I would feel tremendous guilt if this becomes real. My non-disabled child will be crushed.


Do you care about your own integrity or your kids?

Seriously, how do you look in the mirror?


----------



## personofinterest

NorseViking said:


> Yes, breadwinners rule...
> She sees you as a weaker part, I am sure.
> She might be a narcissist/bipolar/borderline PD?


Oh please

Unless she is your patient, knock it off

I assume you think his cheating is just dandy because penis?


----------



## BluesPower

martino said:


> I knew there would be nasty comments made, all this moral compass BS pfft! in regards to my wife I JUST DON'T CARE. She chose for the last 10 plus years to ignore my concerns, the times I brought this up. She listened and then didn't care to act. She chose Netflix, she chose her Kindle, SHE acted selfishly and it killed me inside. She's also made a few comments about how she pays the bills, knowing full well that the reason I work part time only is to take care of the kids. Our disabled son sees psychiatrists, medical marijuana, IEP meetings, disability advocates, all other appointments I do that all. Try finding day care for a kid with autism that punches himself in the forehead and flushes everything they can find down the toilet.
> 
> My regret, You Tube woman or not, is not leaving sooner when I was much younger. She over indulges our kids lets them eat junk food and soda as much as they want, (I told her when one of them gets diabetes YOU ARE HANDLING ALL OF THAT!!) buys them electronics without them doing anything for it. My concerns with all this, she could care less does what she wants. If I found out she was cheating I could care less. Now my kids, well that's why I'm here. None of this is their fault and I would feel tremendous guilt if this becomes real. My non-disabled child will be crushed.


No one is or has said, that you do not have valid reasons for ending the marriage. Totally valid, maybe beyond valid. 

What everyone is saying is that YouTube Girl is not one of them. 

There is a very big difference between those two concepts...


----------



## Taxman

First: Are you absolutely certain that her divorce is not a line she is feeding you? Second: Given that you wanted to leave a decade earlier and were talked out of it then were talked into a second child, does your wife know that the hold of the marriage on you is tenuous at best? 

This and all of the secrets you are projecting onto this relationship do not bode well for the future. Frankly, she appears to be your rationale for escape from a situation that you are not particularly happy to be in. Therefore, it would serve you well to reconsider where this is going. If you feel that your relationship with your wife is not salvageable then work toward divorce honorably, and not with hidden agenda. Once divorced, then you can pursue another relationship.


----------



## OnTheFly

I guess ''monkey branching'' is non-gender specific.

I'll have to make the appropriate disclaimers when speaking about hypergamy from now on.


----------



## StillSearching

Casual Observer said:


> Not quite sure I get this. How it is any more a means to manipulate as normal conversation, telling someone that x is suffering due to y? I think virtually all communication can fall under the category of "manipulation." Even writing a term paper in college. You're trying to convince someone of something. An ultimatum is simply the logical extension of failure to accomplish whatever it is you've been trying to communicate (manipulate for) over time. Either you understand my viewpoint and act as if it's relevant, or I have to change my expectations and long-term decisions.


Ultimatum = a final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations.

You change your behavior *or* I'll change mine.


----------



## StillSearching

WorkingWife said:


> So if something is a fact - I will leave IF this change does not take place. Then why are people calling it an ultimatum? I thought an ultimatum was just a "deal breaker" -- If you continue to do xyz or refuse to do abc, I will not remain with you.
> 
> There are some things I would not live with. They might seem big to others - physical abuse, infidelity, doing drugs, etc. Or they might seem small to many others - not liking to have a deep conversation, not liking animals, not having sense of humor compatible with mine - but they are very big deals to me.
> 
> While hopefully all things one would weed out BEFORE getting into the relationship, the remain ultimatums. Either this changes or I don't want to be with you. End of subject.
> 
> Now if I won't really leave, but I say I will hoping to get my way, that's a manipulation. And I would get tired of someone who did that very fast. (And THAT'S an ultimatum! ;-))


Ok, i'll concede if this happens ahead of a relationship that it's demands are proclamations of dislikes.


----------



## martino

Update:

I've decided that if and when I meet the OW there will be NO SEX until a decision has been made on my end. She readily agreed and I told her: "Don't think you'll catch me in a moment of weakness, I want a clear conscience" she replied: "I want you to have one too." The plan has changed to her moving here and us starting as friends only. I'm still torn, I mean how many people leave because you've asked your spouse to put more effort in and they would still rather watch TV and play Candy Crush???? just gotten too comfortable. It's not even about sex, we have mechanical sex. There's no spark no effort and even when I ask what's wrong she always says "Nothing" does she ask me if something's wrong? Nope. Am I crazy? am I just supposed to accept a relationship going Blah after some years??????


----------



## Tasorundo

No, you don't have to accept it. You get a divorce.

You don't have an affair, emotional or otherwise.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Any man who wont leave his wife until he has her replacement in place is nothing but a coward.


----------



## personofinterest

3Xnocharm said:


> Any man who wont leave his wife until he has her replacement in place is nothing but a coward.


Truth

Where are all the anti-waywards from the other threads, I gotta wonder......


----------



## ConanHub

martino said:


> Update:
> 
> I've decided that if and when I meet the OW there will be NO SEX until a decision has been made on my end. She readily agreed and I told her: "Don't think you'll catch me in a moment of weakness, I want a clear conscience" she replied: "I want you to have one too." The plan has changed to her moving here and us starting as friends only. I'm still torn, I mean how many people leave because you've asked your spouse to put more effort in and they would still rather watch TV and play Candy Crush???? just gotten too comfortable. It's not even about sex, we have mechanical sex. There's no spark no effort and even when I ask what's wrong she always says "Nothing" does she ask me if something's wrong? Nope. Am I crazy? am I just supposed to accept a relationship going Blah after some years??????


I wouldn't put up with it. I wouldn't intentionally betray her and my family by any form of an affair either.

Your wife is under the same terrific pressure you are and maybe a little more because she is the main bread winner.

I would have an adult conversation about why our marriage was breaking down and get her involved in the process of ending it amicably or repairing the damage.

You are escaping. I know a couple with a much younger autistic son and I understand how much of a drain and strain it is especially as the years go by.

While I get wanting to run, it doesn't excuse either one of you.

She seems to have checked out mentally and emotionally. You are cheating and planning on doing a runner physically.

Take care of your business at home way before trying to start another home.


----------



## ConanHub

3Xnocharm said:


> Any man who wont leave his wife until he has her replacement in place is nothing but a coward.


Seen this behavior with women a lot in similar circumstances.

No less disgusting and disconcerting here.


----------



## aine

martino said:


> I knew there would be nasty comments made, all this moral compass BS pfft! in regards to my wife I JUST DON'T CARE. She chose for the last 10 plus years to ignore my concerns, the times I brought this up. She listened and then didn't care to act. She chose Netflix, she chose her Kindle, SHE acted selfishly and it killed me inside. She's also made a few comments about how she pays the bills, knowing full well that the reason I work part time only is to take care of the kids. Our disabled son sees psychiatrists, medical marijuana, IEP meetings, disability advocates, all other appointments I do that all. Try finding day care for a kid with autism that punches himself in the forehead and flushes everything they can find down the toilet.
> 
> My regret, You Tube woman or not, is not leaving sooner when I was much younger. She over indulges our kids lets them eat junk food and soda as much as they want, (I told her when one of them gets diabetes YOU ARE HANDLING ALL OF THAT!!) buys them electronics without them doing anything for it. My concerns with all this, she could care less does what she wants. If I found out she was cheating I could care less. Now my kids, well that's why I'm here. None of this is their fault and I would feel tremendous guilt if this becomes real. My non-disabled child will be crushed.


Pfft!, then stop whinging, be a man and do the right thing, tell your wife you want a divorce. Then grow up, take care of yourself, hopefully your wife wont have to support you also, Why aren't you working full time? I would love to hear your wife's side of the story. What does she do for a living? 

Maybe your wife would like to come home to a man who does things for her, she has been out working hard all day and comes home to your demands, not attractive at all, maybe she needs some downtime instead of having to give you attention. You sound selfish.

You blame your wife for how she feeds the kids, isn't that your job? Aren't you the main person responsible for parenting, looks like you are not taking care of your side of the road. If that is the case, no person man or woman wants to be the main bread winner then come home and handle the work that should be done by their partner. I suspect you are not the catch you pretend to be
I think you should proceed with divorce, your wife will manage I am sure and manage the kids too. Maybe she doesn't care what you do either, that is why she is stuck in Netflix etc. You should go and explore your bliss, maybe Youtube Miss will be ready to support you financially also and give you all the sex you need, Good Luck with that!


----------



## aine

Wolfman1968 said:


> OK, I get it. You're in a horrible marriage. Now, let's think of a good strategy.
> 
> Your last paragraph says it all. "My regret, YouTube woman or not, is not leaving sooner when I was much younger," you post. Well, that's it right there. You need to divorce her now.
> 
> She's a horrible wife. If YouTube doesn't work out, would you want to go back to her? Of course not! So why not pull the trigger now? Get divorced! There's so much upside and no downside to doing it now. That's especially true since she's the major breadwinner. Let's do an analysis:
> 
> 1. The sooner you start divorce proceedings, the sooner you get on with your life.
> 
> 2. If you got involved with YouTube and she got wind of it, she may try to adjust things for a better divorce settlement, like maybe downgrading her job/income. But if you pull the trigger on divorce now, all the details regarding alimony, child support, etc. will be based on the current situation. (You'd better sanitize your computer and phone to not leave a trail and watch out for key logger programs).
> 
> 3. If you live in one of the states that has a provision that denies alimony for infidelity, you will be cutting your throat by not pulling the trigger on divorce first.
> 
> 4. If you have an affair and THEN divorce your wife, your (non-autistic) child will always resent you. He'll feel you dumped Mom for YouTube. On the other hand, if you pull the trigger on divorce first, AND if you wait a respectable time during separation, you could go forward with more respect from your child.
> 
> 5. You can go forward with a semi-clean conscience. There's the Emotional Affair component, but at least you didn't go forward with a full-out physical affair.
> 
> 6. If YouTube doesn't work out, you're still free of your horrible wife. You can then find a better life partner. You're still young!!
> 
> 7. A divorce now will start you on the alimony and child support payments.
> 
> It just seems to me to be a total win for you with no downside if you divorce now. So why don't you? That way, you can also look yourself in the mirror knowing you split from your wife before physically cheating. The whole "divorce now" approach just seems to be a win-win from my perspective.


ah but @wolfman you have not read properly OP's reasoning:

_She's stuck inside her own head. I don't want to just leave her if I'm not sure it's going to work with the ow. I'd rather accept what it is we do have for the rest of my life, I'm not going to throw away 22 years just do go out dating and become a weekend "Denny's dad." She's not a bad person, really a half assed and lazy spouse if that makes sense?_

OP wants to have his cake and eat it. He is not prepared to give up having his wife work full time and financially support his ass. He wants to justify test driving the ow, if it doesn't work out go back to his "terrible" life and poor unsuspecting wife. I hope both your wife and OW dump your ass and let you be on your own, so you can see who you really are. You need to face up to the fact that you are not a decent person.
In other words , OP you are a whinging **** who has absolutely no cajones to do the right thing and is on here looking for justifications.


----------



## Wolfman1968

aine said:


> ah but @wolfman you have not read properly OP's reasoning:
> 
> 
> 
> _She's stuck inside her own head. I don't want to just leave her if I'm not sure it's going to work with the ow. I'd rather accept what it is we do have for the rest of my life, I'm not going to throw away 22 years just do go out dating and become a weekend "Denny's dad." She's not a bad person, really a half assed and lazy spouse if that makes sense?_
> 
> 
> 
> OP wants to have his cake and eat it. He is not prepared to give up having his wife work full time and financially support his ass. He wants to justify test driving the ow, if it doesn't work out go back to his "terrible" life and poor unsuspecting wife. I hope both your wife and OW dump your ass and let you be on your own, so you can see who you really are. You need to face up to the fact that you are not a decent person.
> 
> In other words , OP you are a whinging **** who has absolutely no cajones to do the right thing and is on here looking for justifications.




Actually, I HAVE read OP’s reasoning properly. 

If you’ll re-read my post, you’ll see that I am trying to convince him to adopt an ALTERNATE reasoning approach. I trying to persuade him that his plan is inferior to just divorcing. I am trying to encourage him to not take the cowardly approach because it’s a loser scheme anyway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Casual Observer

martino said:


> Update:
> 
> I've decided that if and when I meet the OW there will be NO SEX until a decision has been made on my end. She readily agreed and I told her: "Don't think you'll catch me in a moment of weakness, I want a clear conscience" she replied: "I want you to have one too."


So are you undergoing chemical castration to keep your hormones in check? You're both grown adults. You're both going to be meeting for the first time, you're both products of sexual frustration, and you're going to come back afterward and say something like "Well, the chemistry was perfect, we just fell into each others arms and knew we were made for each other, melting into one in a way that never happened in our married lives."


----------



## aine

martino said:


> Update:
> 
> I've decided that if and when I meet the OW there will be NO SEX until a decision has been made on my end. She readily agreed and I told her: "Don't think you'll catch me in a moment of weakness, I want a clear conscience" she replied: "I want you to have one too." The plan has changed to her moving here and us starting as friends only. I'm still torn, I mean how many people leave because you've asked your spouse to put more effort in and they would still rather watch TV and play Candy Crush???? just gotten too comfortable. It's not even about sex, we have mechanical sex. There's no spark no effort and even when I ask what's wrong she always says "Nothing" does she ask me if something's wrong? Nope. Am I crazy? am I just supposed to accept a relationship going Blah after some years??????


 @martino, instead of thinking with your little head, just for one moment think with your brain.
Now imagine that right now your wife is actually planning a tryst with a guy she has some dealings with online from her work. They have communicated for some months now and are hot for one another. She sees a potential future with him, he has a great job, lots of money and treats her very well and tells her daily she is beautiful and smart. They are planning to meet and discuss a possible future, whereby you will be kicked to the kurb. She has already planned to divorce you and pay you as little as possible in the settlement. Now tell me, how does that make you feel? Good? If she was doing this to you, you didn't have a clue, would you deserve it?


----------



## Diana7

I have no idea why any woman would be interested in a man who is planning on cheating on his wife with her. Unless her moral values are as bad as his.

OH and BTW, you can't possibly be close to her, you have never even met . Its probable that there will be no chemistry once you meet.


----------



## Heart Break

I don't think you are fully understand the consequences of your decision. This youtube lady will leave her life to come and "try" to build a relationship with you while you are still married and not sure if you really want to leave your wife.

My advise is to talk to you wife. To explain her your true feelings, and to make her understand that this is the last chance to save your relationship. Believe me that when you put it this way, your wife's reaction and actions will be completely different.... 

TRY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR WIFE BEFORE MAKING ANY FINAL DECISIONS


----------



## Wolfman1968

aine said:


> OP wants to have his cake and eat it.* He is not prepared to give up having his wife work full time and financially support his ass.* He wants to justify test driving the ow, if it doesn't work out go back to his "terrible" life and poor unsuspecting wife. *I hope both your wife and OW dump your ass and let you be on your own*, so you can see who you really are. You need to face up to the fact that you are not a decent person.
> In other words , OP you are a whinging **** who has absolutely no cajones to do the right thing and is on here looking for justifications.


Actually, the OP had posted that his wife earns substantially more than he does, and he had cut back his work to care for his child with a disability.

So, it sounds like his wife is the major breadwinner and he is the main child caregiver, if he is representing this correctly. 

As a result, if the laws are applied in a sex-neutral manner, it's likely that even if he DOES divorce, his wife will STILL be "supporting his ass" through alimony and (indirectly) through child support, assuming he gets primary custody (or even 50-50 in some states, because of the income differential). It would end up being the situation we typically see with the sexes reversed.

To be honest, though, I don't really count on the laws being applied in a sex-neutral manner most of the time.


----------



## personofinterest

Wolfman1968 said:


> aine said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP wants to have his cake and eat it.* He is not prepared to give up having his wife work full time and financially support his ass.* He wants to justify test driving the ow, if it doesn't work out go back to his "terrible" life and poor unsuspecting wife. *I hope both your wife and OW dump your ass and let you be on your own*, so you can see who you really are. You need to face up to the fact that you are not a decent person.
> In other words , OP you are a whinging **** who has absolutely no cajones to do the right thing and is on here looking for justifications.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the OP had posted that his wife earns substantially more than he does, and he had cut back his work to care for his child with a disability.
> 
> So, it sounds like his wife is the major breadwinner and he is the main child caregiver, if he is representing this correctly.
> 
> As a result, if the laws are applied in a sex-neutral manner, it's likely that even if he DOES divorce, his wife will STILL be "supporting his ass" through alimony and (indirectly) through child support, assuming he gets primary custody (or even 50-50 in some states, because of the income differential). It would end up being the situation we typically see with the sexes reversed.
> 
> To be honest, though, I don't really count on the laws being applied in a sex-neutral manner most of the time.
Click to expand...

 Yes, he doesn't want to have to give up his financial gravy train. Hes just a typical cheating, cake eating spouse. Nothing new to see here


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

And here I am with serious misgivings about finding "true love" on the internet in general...When low and behold, we have YouTube Cupid to the rescue.

I think OP does NOT like the status of his life. And needs to take stock of life in general. For his family, self and this OW....I just don't think anything good will come of this. Even if the current wife is a desert emotionally and sexually, the OW is going to be a fling and rebound status...He knows this riiight?


Maybe he should be put free and seriously find some time to get HIS act together and understand what his true self needs and wants, without screwing up so many other lives in the process...


----------



## aine

@martino, though I do not like your approach to the issues in your life I guess I should be more constructive.

1. it is hard being a part time stay at home Dad, esp with a disabled child.
2. Like many women in the same position, you feel neglected, unloved and uncared for
3. On the other hand the OW is giving you the care you so desperately crave, but this is not real life, I doubt she would be so caring if she was breadwinning to support you and the children. She is just a fantasy
4. YOur wife is uncaring, so you say but how have you approached her. If you have complained and whinged, then that will not get results
5. How about changing yourself first, taking control, you are supposed to be the head of the household, how much leadership do you actually engage in, I suspect none or very little. You expect your wife to be the leader, this is really a major turn off for any woman.
6. Go to see a counsellor to work through your feelings and plan a way forward, one that does not involve cheating on your wife (and kids) you are breaking up their family and it will not end well
7. Try to stop thinking of only yourself and your needs. your wife is probably feeling pressure, unloved, uncared for too. She comes home to a man who is absent because he is too busy spending his time and emotion on another women.


----------

