# betrayed, like so many here



## raging_pain

Reading this forum has been eye-opening. So many people have had similar experiences, it's really freaking creepy. I've been reading a bit here, so bear with me. Here's my story:

About one month ago, my wife told me she wants a divorce. I was completely blindsided by it. We have two little boys together, ages 3 & 2. 

Long story short, my WS explained that there were many things throughout our marriage that she's been unhappy with. She said that it is too late for another chance at the marriage. We both began seeing therapists individually, and a marriage counselor together. She would go back and forth with her feelings, whipping me around like a roller-coaster. She would tell me that she "doesn't know why she can't give me a second chance, but she can't". She would say that she "needs to work on herself and can't do it while she's with me."

Until I discovered this forum, I was of the opinion that the WS and I, with great effort, could make a better marriage for us both and for our children. She would simply repeat that "it is too late". We've only had two marriage counseling sessions so far, and at the end of the last one the therapist took us both aside individually. I don't know what she said to my WS, but she told me that "though she doesn't want to reconcile, do not give up, there's always a chance".

Then, I discovered evidence of her affair (with a _former_ friend of mine!) She had been insisting that their relationship was platonic, but began trickle-truthing me about things that have happened. She admitted that she's been lying to me about certain things (without elaborating on what) and that she does it (the lying) because she needs her privacy and I'm not a part of that aspect of her life. She insisted nothing physical has happened. I found a damning email from her to him stating otherwise.

I have not confronted her with the email evidence yet. She doesn't know that I am aware of her secret email account. I want to draw up the divorce papers and serve her with them, then possibly expose the affair to her friends and family after the fact. 

However I'm not sure how to proceed. The WS has been beating me over the head with the threat of filing divorce papers for the entire time, which would usually result in me saying "just go do it then", which she wouldn't do. Then, the marriage counselor suggested that we postpone any action of that sort until after the holidays, so that we could get in 4-5 sessions of marriage counseling before any action is taken. This was all said before I discovered the PA however.

I never knew I could feel this much anger and pain. Please give me some advice, something, anything. I don't know what to do. I can't trust a single word she says. She even said that she "wished she could kill me" at one point, though she said she didn't mean it and profusely apologized for it later that night and again the next day.

What should I do??


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## TCSRedhead

It sounds like she may still be in contact with the OM which is why she's pushing you away so hard. Or she had an exit affair. Keep copies of the evidence someplace safe. Put a voice activated recorder under the driver seat in her car. Install key loggers and spyware on all computers and cell phones. 

Then, confront her with what you know.

She will go ballistic. It will be all blamed on you. Stay calm, put it back on her and tell her SHE is the one who cheated and is destroying her family. Exposé the evidence to her parents and yours. Exposé the affair to the OMs wife. 

You will have to be prepared to lose this marriage. You do not discuss any sort of reconciliation. Go to the newbies thread at the top of this forum and read the 180. After you confront and expose, follow that. 

You do not leave the house. If she wants out, she goes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

I suggest you expose her to your and her family/friends then upon her coming home hand over the divorce papers. This way you'll send a strong message to her and not look weak by keeping her affair a secret. You need to expose it to kill it.

Stop the MC since there is a 3rd person in the picture. It wont do any good until he is out for good.

Also its good you've realized not to trust her, from now on never trust a word that comes out of her mouth for a long time, if ever.

Just wondering, are you 100% sure you have all the evidence of her affair(s)? Did you secure them somewhere she has no access to?


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## raging_pain

Yeah, I've been in the newbie section, and in fact I've been carrying a copy of the 180 in my pocket and reading it over and over, whenever I would feel like **** (which is quite often).

She is still in contact with the OM. Just last night she sent him an email saying "it's been a rough week, i wish i could talk to you". The OM is not married. 

I did have a keylogger running on her computer, but I disabled it after a few weeks. It was making me feel like absolute trash that I was spying on her. Plus, the 180 says not to spy on your spouse, so I'm confused as to what to do.


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## the guy

You have a solid plan so stop second guessing your self. Hold on to the emials file for divorce and make sure the lawyers names OM in the paperwork, have her served and the expose the affair.

This tactic will show your WW how confident you are in letting her go and it will be up to her to do the heavy lifting to withdraw the divorce papers.

YOur wifes a cake eater and will not give up her second life with out the hard reality of getting served. Be prepared for her to get really pissed. See she thinks she is in the drivers seat and you ain't going anywere...prove her wrong and use the said tactic to get her to think twice about her choices.


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## TCSRedhead

So you already have all the evidence - why aren't you confronting? Keep the keylogger installed. Don't tell her HOW you're getting this info. 

The 180 is for after you confront and expose. What are you waiting for?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## raging_pain

keko: i'm an IT professional, she has no idea of what i'm doing. though she has been getting advice from a divorced female friend of hers that was married to a PI, so WS has learned some rudimentary concealment techniques. the evidence i have found so far is sparse, except for a few gems like the one that details the PA from WS to OM.

I suppose I should re-establish the keylogger..


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## the guy

raging_pain said:


> Yeah, I've been in the newbie section, and in fact I've been carrying a copy of the 180 in my pocket and reading it over and over, whenever I would feel like **** (which is quite often).
> 
> She is still in contact with the OM. Just last night she sent him an email saying "it's been a rough week, i wish i could talk to you". The OM is not married.
> 
> I did have a keylogger running on her computer, but I disabled it after a few weeks. It was making me feel like absolute trash that I was spying on her. Plus, the 180 says not to spy on your spouse, so I'm confused as to what to do.


As you can see your wife has little concern for you and until you serve her she will continue to think she has your number.


Having been here for a while the type of affair you are dealing with is one of of the most toxic because your wife is so fogged in that she is willing to give up everything for OM the problem is OM is not so here your wife is willing to let you go but afraid to loss the security and stabliity you offer.

So in this case you must force your hand by filing, if your lucky the Om gets scared off think that your wife will be his problem for now on. I think the OM tells your WW to work on the marriage while banging your wife, that way he has no strings attached to your WW.

Some thing tells me making your wife more available to OM by serving WW will scare him off.

Until the OM is out of the picture your wife will be in the fantasy fog.


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## jim123

raging_pain said:


> Reading this forum has been eye-opening. So many people have had similar experiences, it's really freaking creepy. I've been reading a bit here, so bear with me. Here's my story:
> 
> About one month ago, my wife told me she wants a divorce. I was completely blindsided by it. We have two little boys together, ages 3 & 2.
> 
> Long story short, my WS explained that there were many things throughout our marriage that she's been unhappy with. She said that it is too late for another chance at the marriage. We both began seeing therapists individually, and a marriage counselor together. She would go back and forth with her feelings, whipping me around like a roller-coaster. She would tell me that she "doesn't know why she can't give me a second chance, but she can't". She would say that she "needs to work on herself and can't do it while she's with me."
> 
> Until I discovered this forum, I was of the opinion that the WS and I, with great effort, could make a better marriage for us both and for our children. She would simply repeat that "it is too late". We've only had two marriage counseling sessions so far, and at the end of the last one the therapist took us both aside individually. I don't know what she said to my WS, but she told me that "though she doesn't want to reconcile, do not give up, there's always a chance".
> 
> Then, I discovered evidence of her affair (with a _former_ friend of mine!) She had been insisting that their relationship was platonic, but began trickle-truthing me about things that have happened. She admitted that she's been lying to me about certain things (without elaborating on what) and that she does it (the lying) because she needs her privacy and I'm not a part of that aspect of her life. She insisted nothing physical has happened. I found a damning email from her to him stating otherwise.
> 
> I have not confronted her with the email evidence yet. She doesn't know that I am aware of her secret email account. I want to draw up the divorce papers and serve her with them, then possibly expose the affair to her friends and family after the fact.
> 
> However I'm not sure how to proceed. The WS has been beating me over the head with the threat of filing divorce papers for the entire time, which would usually result in me saying "just go do it then", which she wouldn't do. Then, the marriage counselor suggested that we postpone any action of that sort until after the holidays, so that we could get in 4-5 sessions of marriage counseling before any action is taken. This was all said before I discovered the PA however.
> 
> I never knew I could feel this much anger and pain. Please give me some advice, something, anything. I don't know what to do. I can't trust a single word she says. She even said that she "wished she could kill me" at one point, though she said she didn't mean it and profusely apologized for it later that night and again the next day.
> 
> What should I do??


Time is not on your side. File D and throw her out. It is the only way to clear the fog in a hurry. The longer you wait the deeper it goes. Holiday are perfect for this. Do not delay.

In addition you must do the 180. No talking to her about anything except the kids. Most importantly is start moving on. That is good for both of you. 

You can not deal with this from weakness. You can not beg, hope or pray. You need to take action. She needs to respect her marriage and you.


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## keko

Do re-establish the keylogger.

If possible you can even place a voice activated recorder(VAR) in her car. This is very important because most cheaters feel the safest inside their car so they talk about everything with all the details whether they are talking with their affair partner or a toxic friend.

Were you able to determine when she's meeting up with this pos? Would a physical surveillance be possible?


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## the guy

Again I think the best confrontation you can have with this tyoe of affair and the variables you have, envolves 1)divorce paper,2)exposer, 3) confronting wife face to face with your boundries in withdrawing the divorce papers.


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## raging_pain

the guy said:


> You have a solid plan so stop second guessing your self. Hold on to the emials file for divorce and make sure the lawyers names OM in the paperwork, have her served and the expose the affair.
> 
> This tactic will show your WW how confident you are in letting her go and it will be up to her to do the heavy lifting to withdraw the divorce papers.
> 
> YOur wifes a cake eater and will not give up her second life with out the hard reality of getting served. Be prepared for her to get really pissed. See she thinks she is in the drivers seat and you ain't going anywere...prove her wrong and use the said tactic to get her to think twice about her choices.


ok. that's sort of what i needed to hear, the first paragraph. gather info, file papers which name OM, serve her papers, then expose the affair. ok. that's a plan. that's what i needed, i think.


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## MrMathias

raging_pain said:


> Though she has been getting advice from a divorced female friend of hers that was married to a PI, so WS has learned some rudimentary concealment techniques.


I can't begin to say how much I hate people like this 'friend'. 'Friends' like that that justify reprehensible behavior, and even help the WS, are possibly even worse than the betrayer. The proverbial devil on the shoulder... 
If you have your WW write NC letters make sure she ditches the toxic 'friends', they're pure poison whether or not you are part of the picture.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

raging_pain said:


> keko: i'm an IT professional, she has no idea of what i'm doing. though she has been getting advice from a divorced female friend of hers that was married to a PI, so WS has learned some rudimentary concealment techniques. the evidence i have found so far is sparse, except for a few gems like the one that details the PA from WS to OM.
> 
> I suppose I should re-establish the keylogger..


You got your smoking gun. the kellogger will be usefull *if* you WW aggrees to your boundries after being served, exposure,confrontation......then the keylogger will verify any agreement your wife has made *if* she wants to save her family.

Any,ore eveidence won't mean sh1t, your old lady already already divorced you in her minf by telling you so (funny how waywards minds work)...you are a 1 step a head of your wife pull the trigger and show her a taste of reality by 1)sever her, 2) expose her,3)confront her with your boundries in order to with draw the d-papers.


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## Will_Kane

raging_pain said:


> Reading this forum has been eye-opening. So many people have had similar experiences, it's really freaking creepy. I've been reading a bit here, so bear with me. Here's my story:
> 
> About one month ago, my wife told me she wants a divorce. I was completely blindsided by it. We have two little boys together, ages 3 & 2.
> 
> Long story short, my WS explained that there were many things throughout our marriage that she's been unhappy with. She said that it is too late for another chance at the marriage. We both began seeing therapists individually, and a marriage counselor together. She would go back and forth with her feelings, whipping me around like a roller-coaster. She would tell me that she "doesn't know why she can't give me a second chance, but she can't". She would say that she "needs to work on herself and can't do it while she's with me."
> 
> Until I discovered this forum, I was of the opinion that the WS and I, with great effort, could make a better marriage for us both and for our children. She would simply repeat that "it is too late". We've only had two marriage counseling sessions so far, and at the end of the last one the therapist took us both aside individually. I don't know what she said to my WS, but she told me that "though she doesn't want to reconcile, do not give up, there's always a chance".
> 
> Then, I discovered evidence of her affair (with a _former_ friend of mine!) She had been insisting that their relationship was platonic, but began trickle-truthing me about things that have happened. She admitted that she's been lying to me about certain things (without elaborating on what) and that she does it (the lying) because she needs her privacy and I'm not a part of that aspect of her life. She insisted nothing physical has happened. I found a damning email from her to him stating otherwise.
> 
> I have not confronted her with the email evidence yet. She doesn't know that I am aware of her secret email account. I want to draw up the divorce papers and serve her with them, then possibly expose the affair to her friends and family after the fact.
> 
> However I'm not sure how to proceed. The WS has been beating me over the head with the threat of filing divorce papers for the entire time, which would usually result in me saying "just go do it then", which she wouldn't do. Then, the marriage counselor suggested that we postpone any action of that sort until after the holidays, so that we could get in 4-5 sessions of marriage counseling before any action is taken. This was all said before I discovered the PA however.
> 
> I never knew I could feel this much anger and pain. Please give me some advice, something, anything. I don't know what to do. I can't trust a single word she says. She even said that she "wished she could kill me" at one point, though she said she didn't mean it and profusely apologized for it later that night and again the next day.
> 
> What should I do??


Set it up so there are no kids around, just you and your wife for at least an hour. Sit down and have a talk with her. Tell her that you KNOW she is involved with the other guy romantically and having sex with him. Do not tell her how. Never tell her how.

Tell her that you still are willing to reconcile with her, that you still love her, and that you will do everything in your power to improve yourself and improve your marriage but only if she is willing to end the affair completely and work on the marriage. Then give her your conditions: handwritten no contact letter, she allows you to verify that she no longer has contact by giving you complete access to all her communciation devices and accounts, and she gets STD tests.

Then, tell other man's wife or girlfriend what is going on. Do not tell your wife you are doing this.

If your wife does not agree to work on the marriage, tell her and your family and close friends that she has been cheating on you, going to marriage counseling with you all the while lying about carrying on an affair, tell them the other man's name, and tell them that she refuses to give up the affair. Tell them you still love your wife and would like to save your marriage and your family and ask for their help and support in doing so. 

Tell your wife that if she wants other man so much, she can have him, as a matter of fact, you would like her to pack up her stuff and you will take her over to him. Start packing her stuff for her. If she refuses to go, then let her sleep in the spare bedroom or on the couch until she gets out.

If you're paying for her affair, stop. Don't pay for her cell phone, car, and other things she uses to conduct the affair. It's enough that you pay for your house, heat, electricity and food. Separate your finances.

If your wife does agree to work on the marriage, then do it, but verify that she remains in no contact to the extent you can.


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## the guy

raging_pain said:


> ok. that's sort of what i needed to hear, the first paragraph. gather info, file papers which name OM, serve her papers, then expose the affair. ok. that's a plan. that's what i needed, i think.


"i think".........

Your wife asked for a divorce so file.

This is not a case were she is begging you to forgive her, this is not a case were she has taken the step and having you served, this is not a case were she has moved out with Om and you guys are seperated.

Stay 1 step ahead of your wife! Having her served will bring the reality to her choice to divorce you, the seperation of assets, custody....alll the crap that she will read when she gets served will ...I hope....bring her the table to at least think twice in what she is asking for.

Get it?


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## the guy

Scare the OM off by letting WW go.


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## Calibre12

In a sick way, you are lucky...You have the ball in your court...Any BS who gets hard evidence is lucky because it gives you the upper hand immediately althought you do NOT feel that way. Time is of the essence.


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## raging_pain

keko said:


> Do re-establish the keylogger.


 ok, will do



> If possible you can even place a voice activated recorder(VAR) in her car. This is very important because most cheaters feel the safest inside their car so they talk about everything with all the details whether they are talking with their affair partner or a toxic friend.


ok, i will investigate the option



> Were you able to determine when she's meeting up with this pos? Would a physical surveillance be possible?


WS and I have been trading staying at our home with the kids every 2-3 days. When I am there with the kids, she sees him. She also informs him when she'll be at work, where he can meet up with her to do god knows what.


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## the guy

Remember filing and having her served is alot different then finalizing a divorce. So keep that in mind and stop thinking about it.

A coulpe of thing in the d-paper 1) name OM, 2) moral clause (OM no were near the kids) 3) full custody and all assets.

Makes these d-papers as scary as possible....the d-papers are you confrontation so make them as effective as possible.

Sure I would approach this different if your WW didn't mention divorce, but she did. So you have to take the expencesive route to bring her out of the affair fog.


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## the guy

Dude you have a smoking gun already....don't you?


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## the guy

Confronting her with more evidence is only going to get you " we are divorcing anyway, so its none of your business in what I do and with who"

The reality has to hit her in the face hard by having her served with you asking for everything and her getting nothing. Sure she will contest and you will get screwed, but my point is to have an effective confrontation in a case like yours you need to have her served.


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## Will_Kane

However you choose to approach this, action is better than no action.

Don't threaten any actions, just do them. So, don't say "end contact or I will file for divorce." Just say, "end contact." If she doesn't agree, just file for divorce without telling her. Same with exposure or any other actions you plan to take. Don't let her in on your game plan.

I think you should expose to other man's wife or girlfriend, but hold off on exposure to your family and friends until after you give her one more chance to tell the truth and agree to reconcile. If she doesn't agree, or if she agrees and then goes back on it by stil staying in contact with other man, then expose to family and friends.

A few lines in case you need them:

"I can't control you, I can only control myself and what I am willing to accept and not willing to accept in a marriage."

"Privacy is for the bathroom, everything else is secrecy, and secrecy has no place in a marriage."

Crying, pleading and begging are bad, calm confidence is good, though it doesn't sound like you will have a problem with this.


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## raging_pain

yeah, but i'm just so unsure of what to do. i'm having major self-confidence issues because of all this, and i don't want to fark up this process. but like you and others have said, waiting will just make it worse. the bit about stopping the MC until OM is gone is logical too.


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## Will_Kane

The voice-activated recorder in the car, and in the house in places where she is likely to talk to him when you are not around, are very useful surveillance tools. She always will expect you hacked her phone, her computer, her email, etc., so she may get a burner phone or use a friend's phone, but she will not expect a voice-activated recorder, so it won't matter what device she uses.


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## raging_pain

i've stopped trying to reason with her since reading the 180. It's only been two days since I've changed my attitude, but she has already begun to react differently. She tries to initiate conversations more than usual, she'll ask me the same question over and over to talk to me. This **** is so messed up.


This Monday I am going to the bank, setting up a new account to have my paychecks deposited to, and trying to get a line of credit so I can pay the lawyer. I'll have her served as soon as I can, and tell her I know about the PA.

That's another question: the only way I could have the knowledge I have is if I am aware of her secret email account, how do I impart the knowledge without inadvertently revealing the source?


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## kenmoore14217

Get all over this:

"I suppose I should re-establish the keylogger.."


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## the guy

Will_Kane said:


> The voice-activated recorder in the car, and in the house in places where she is likely to talk to him when you are not around, are very useful surveillance tools. She always will expect you hacked her phone, her computer, her email, etc., so she may get a burner phone or use a friend's phone, but she will not expect a voice-activated recorder, so it won't matter what device she uses.


Am I missing something, or does OP have or do not have a smoking gun?

Take action now and no matter how weak you feel never ever show your wife your lack of confidence, never beg, and never cry infront of her.

Chick dig confident men!

Don't you see your wifes sees your lack of confidence and how it lowers your attraction level? She needs to see a man that will no longer share his wife and will no longer tolorate her crap.

She may not respect you now but when you start to take action (have her served) she will have the respect for you for no longer tolorating her bull sh1t.


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## MrMathias

File D immediately. You can always stop it when or if you feel secure in moving toward R, or heck, getting remarried after you enjoy life for a while. My biggest mistake was mentioning D after Dday1 but not showing I meant business by filing. I worked on our marriage, she wasn't, and ended up reigniting her affair. Really, really listen to these men and women that say you need to take control and stand up. 

The cold hard light of exposure and looking at the D paperwork changed my WWs tune almost immediately.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

raging_pain said:


> yeah, but i'm just so unsure of what to do. i'm having major self-confidence issues because of all this, and i don't want to fark up this process. but like you and others have said, waiting will just make it worse. the bit about stopping the MC until OM is gone is logical too.


Fake the confidence, like you're an actor in a play. If you stay on the path you're on your marriage is already lost, so approach it as if you have nothing to lose, because that really is very very close to the truth for you at this point.

Other man is a fantasy. With other man, there are no chores, no screaming kids, no financial pressures, no dirty underwear on the floor, just I love you's and sex and dreams of a perfect life together in a fantasy land, where everyone loves them and accepts their relationship as true love.

Is other man married?

Two best ways to break up an affair: 1. Expose to other man's wife. 2. Force her and other man out of the fantasy and into the reality by forcing their hand, let her go live with him and expose to all of your friends and family the real reason your marriage is breaking up.


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## raging_pain

it's more like a gun that smells like it's been recently fired, but it's not smoking.. she talks about "having his hands on her" and "devouring him starting with his lips", but nothing explicitly mentions sex.

and the_guy, i am definitely done waiting. like i said, this Monday i'm going to do everything I can to file as fast as possible. How long does it usually take from making the request from the lawyer and actually having papers in hand?


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## Will_Kane

the guy said:


> Am I missing something, or does OP have or do not have a smoking gun?
> 
> Take action now and no matter how weak you feel never ever show your wife your lack of confidence, never beg, and never cry infront of her.
> 
> Chick dig confident men!
> 
> Don't you see your wifes sees your lack of confidence and how it lowers your attraction level? She needs to see a man that will no longer share his wife and will no longer tolorate her crap.
> 
> She may not respect you now but when you start to take action (have her served) she will have the respect for you for no longer tolorating her bull sh1t.


Yes, take action now, don't put it off because you want more evidence from the voice-activated recorder, you have enough evidence now. The voice-activated recorder is useful to find out what is going on after you confront your wife to see if she still is lying to you.


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## aug

Never, ever, reveal your source of info. If you do, you are going to have a harder time confirming she had stop her cheating.

Tell her someone told you -- that's all (that someone is her  )

Her friend, the wife of a PI, will give her other tricks to go underground.



And, yes, start isolating and protecting your finances and assets. Remove yourself from any joint bank accounts, credit cards, debts, etc. Revisit your will and insurances.


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## raging_pain

Will_Kane said:


> Is other man married?


no, he is not



> Two best ways to break up an affair: 1. Expose to other man's wife. 2. Force her and other man out of the fantasy and into the reality by forcing their hand, let her go live with him and expose to all of your friends and family the real reason your marriage is breaking up.


yeah, that seems to be the only option i have.


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## aug

raging_pain said:


> it's more like a gun that smells like it's been recently fired, but it's not smoking.. she talks about "having his hands on her" and "devouring him starting with his lips", but nothing explicitly mentions sex.
> 
> and the_guy, i am definitely done waiting. like i said, this Monday i'm going to do everything I can to file as fast as possible. How long does it usually take from making the request from the lawyer and actually having papers in hand?



yup, it went PA.

A couple of days for papers to be drafted and filed. In the meantime, do what I suggest above.


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## the guy

raging_pain said:


> i've stopped trying to reason with her since reading the 180. It's only been two days since I've changed my attitude, but she has already begun to react differently. She tries to initiate conversations more than usual, she'll ask me the same question over and over to talk to me. This **** is so messed up.
> 
> 
> This Monday I am going to the bank, setting up a new account to have my paychecks deposited to, and trying to get a line of credit so I can pay the lawyer. I'll have her served as soon as I can, and tell her I know about the PA.
> 
> That's another question: the only way I could have the knowledge I have is if I am aware of her secret email account, how do I impart the knowledge without inadvertently revealing the source?


Stay dark you must be a step ahead of her...let the divorce papers be your confrontation. Confronting now will not nearly be as effective as it could be........She already wants a divorce, a confrontation now will just be words and she has your number....confronting now won't mean sh1t

STAY DARK !!!!!!!!!


If you have the need to confront now expect it to go deeper underground and you will loose some of your sources....hell go for it maybe I'm completely wrong and she will stop the cheating and beg for the marriage.


I have a tough choice so take the day to think it over, only your emotional health matters, and if this sh1t is getting out of hand then confront her, ask her to leave.

Most likely she will and while she is packing inform her you are considering this abandonment and will take the aprpreiate actions once she steps out the door.

Do not let her take the kids and start exposing.


I still think your original plan is solid...just emotionaly training.
I just think confronting her now want change a damb thing. The exposure might help. But at the end of the day the madder your WW gets the better job you are doing in making the affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible to continue.


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## aug

You stay at your home. When you serve her the paper, pack her stuff up the same time. Make her leave. She does have a place to stay it seems since you're doing the 2-3 days stay at the home.


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## Will_Kane

raging_pain said:


> i've stopped trying to reason with her since reading the 180. It's only been two days since I've changed my attitude, but she has already begun to react differently. She tries to initiate conversations more than usual, she'll ask me the same question over and over to talk to me. This **** is so messed up.
> 
> 
> This Monday I am going to the bank, setting up a new account to have my paychecks deposited to, and trying to get a line of credit so I can pay the lawyer. I'll have her served as soon as I can, and tell her I know about the PA.
> 
> That's another question: the only way I could have the knowledge I have is if I am aware of her secret email account, how do I impart the knowledge without inadvertently revealing the source?


There are hundreds of ways you could know, someone at her job could have told you, someone you both know could have said something, you could have a voice-activated recorder in her car, you could have hired a private investigator, you could have gps'd her car, you could have asked a friend to follow her - so stop worrying about her guessing how you know.

Does it really matter if she knows how you know that much. You are going to confront her with the truth. She will either agree to reconcile or will say she wants a divorce.

You are not going to nice her out of this affair and yes, the affair will eventually die out on its own, but that may be several years.

You just caught your wife in a lie, she has been cheating on you with a friend, find your self-esteem and tell her you KNOW and you will not tolerate it any longer. Tell her you took vows, got married, had kids, and have gone through life's ups and downs together and if she wants to end the marriage, then she should stop her affair, get a divorce, and then continue her affair after the divorce is final.


----------



## the guy

Your going to need to get the dough, a couple grand for retainer, then your lawyer will have to tell you the time frame.

Look for one with a small case laod right now, explain your game plan and inform the lawyer that it is emotionally draining and that your plan to use the dicorce papers to confront her has to happen quick for your own emotional health.


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## the guy

Will_Kane said:


> There are hundreds of ways you could know, someone at her job could have told you, someone you both know could have said something, you could have a voice-activated recorder in her car, you could have hired a private investigator, you could have gps'd her car, you could have asked a friend to follow her - so stop worrying about her guessing how you know.
> 
> Does it really matter if she knows how you know that much. You are going to confront her with the truth. She will either agree to reconcile or will say she wants a divorce.
> 
> You are not going to nice her out of this affair and yes, the affair will eventually die out on its own, but that may be several years.
> 
> You just caught your wife in a lie, she has been cheating on you with a friend, find your self-esteem and tell her you KNOW and you will not tolerate it any longer. Tell her you took vows, got married, had kids, and have gone through life's ups and downs together and if she wants to end the marriage, then she should stop her affair, get a divorce, and then continue her affair after the divorce is final.


She already wants a divorce so whats the point? 

Bring the reality to WW and spend the dough on the retainer, the good thing is *if * WW want to R once the reality hits her, she now knows you have a lawyer and he is only a phone call away.

Months from now if this marriage can't be saved you will already be a step ahead of your WW. I do hope that WW sees the light and save her family. 

These young boys don't diserve this, but they do need to see a father who won't take sh1t. 

I really want to believe this is not an exit afair, and that once OM sees that WW will soon be his problem OM will dumb her like a rock. WW goes thru withdrawls and does the heavy lifting to save her family.


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## Will_Kane

So you've seen the other threads and it's creepy how similar they are?

The cheaters all follow a script, your observation has been repeated many times on this forum.

Betrayed spouses follow a script too, and you are following it to a T. Many of the posters here would rather tolerate their spouse's infidelity than confront them due to fear of losing them. Why it is that they can't see that they've already lost them, I don't know.

Stop worrying about finding exactly the right words and exactly the right time. Make a plan to confront your wife and do it. Tell her it's you or him, she can't continue to have both. You don't have to do it this very minute, but I don't see why you would wait beyond today. Get one of your parents or siblings or friends to take your kids for an hour and do it.

Your wife likes the set up she has now. She sees other man for sex while you watch the kids, help pay the bills, and take care of the house. She will continue this way forever if she can.


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## alphaomega

Make sure you wrap up those papers in a pretty box with a bow and put it under the tree for her.


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## Will_Kane

the guy said:


> *She already wants a divorce so whats the point? *


She SAYS she wants a divorce, SHE has threatend to file for divorce ad infinitum according to the original poster, however she has not actually done it. Her actions prove she does not want a divorce, she wants to continue her current arrangement. She could file for divorce at any time. If she wanted one so badly, she would have. 

She uses the threat of divorce to try to keep her betrayed husband in line so she can maintain her appearance of a morally reputable woman in a happy marriage, keep her husband paying for her lifestyle, watching the kids, and taking care of the house, and using the other man for romance, emotional needs, and sex. Apparently, it works, so she knows what she is doing. Other man likes it this way. Cheating wife likes it this way. Only betrayed husband doesn't like it this way.

Cheating wife is a cake eater. She likes two men fighting for her attentions. Cake eaters will continue to try to eat cake until someone stops them.


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## keko

Can someone look after the kids while you follow her? Or do you have a close family or a trusted friend that can follow her? PI a possibility?


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## Will_Kane

raging, take a look at these:

The Unified Theory of Cake

The Humiliating Dance of


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## Acabado

raging_pain said:


> it's more like a gun that smells like it's been recently fired, but it's not smoking.. she talks about "having his hands on her" and "devouring him starting with his lips", but nothing explicitly mentions sex.


When a woman drop the divorce bomb out of the blue AND there's another man involved I garantee you 100% she already "tasted" the goods. She was emotionaly attached to him for a whilen, then started doing him untill she was sure enough to stop cake eating and ask for the divorce while gaslithging you and using MC as smoke screem. Cheater's hand book page 1. She's telling OM to wait for it, she must save face (MC, separation period). Pull the phone bills as longer in the past as you can.
It's a no brainer. If you communicate with MC he/she will realized what was going on, will dismiss all the rewriting, blamewshifting crap she was dishing to justify herself the divorce.
Monitor her interactions not only with OM but with divorced GF, she knows, she's living it vicariously, telling her to find happyness. Many WWs use to have confidants in this kind of things with peoplo who enables them, she may even be sharing the gory details.


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## TCSRedhead

Speaking as the former cheater, she has NO intention of filing for divorce or she would have already. She's keeping you as her Plan B in case it doesn't work out with the new guy. 

Unless you stand firm and refuse to be the third wheel in her relationship, she'll keep going this way. 

I agree with aug that YOU stay in the house, she goes. This way, she is the one who legally abandoned the marriage. So not do anything to make her life simpler at this point. Put all your time and attention into your children and find and attorney on Monday who will serve her next week. 

Be prepared for her outbursts. Exposé to family ASAP as she will try to paint the picture that YOU are the bad husband who forced her to cheat because you treated her horribly and that she's only stayed this long for the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

I think in a case like this, any confrontation with out divorce papers will be a failure. I mean it might be worth it to confront now if money is a problem, but it think having divorce papers being served might be the most effective way. 

It sound like WW is deep in the fog.

OP you are closest to the sitch and if you already had somewhat of a confrontation I think you have a taste of what to expect. 

And yes get your spy gear in place so you have your bases covered after she is served. It will give you a better handle on the steps you need to take.

Granted she is pushing her self away from this marriage but the things you gather thru your own investigation will make you push your self away from saving this marriage. In the end it may be the best thing.

But I do hope that things take a change for the better after you give here a taste of reality and she does the heavy lifting to save her marriage.

I'm curious if you stick to the plan (have her served, expose , confront) what will happen? Versus the plan to confront, expose, then have her served?

I think the later will only make the affair continue until she is served, I think she realy believes you are not going to do any thing.


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## Will_Kane

raging, ultimately it doesn't matter what order you do these things, if your wife wants to save the marriage she will dump other guy and work on it, no matter what order you do things. Whatever it is you are going to do, though, it's time to get this show on the road. You've waited long enough. So, go and file. Or confront. Or expose to other man's wife. Just don't sit on your hands and watch her carry on her inappropriate relationship with this other man.

No matter wht you do, you can expect her to lie and minimize and only tell you what she thinks you already know. From what you've posted, we know she's been having sex with him on a regular basis for quite a while now, even if you don't.

Most likely she can't believe how gullible you've been. She probably has told other man and her confidants who know about the affair that she can't believe you accept her story that it's only platonic.

Due to the way you've handled it so far, she probably will agree to your face to give up other man and work on the marriage, then try to continue her affair, take it underground, so she can maintain the status quo. That's where the voice-activated recorders can save you a lot of time and heartache. She probably will not believe you are filing for divorce until you actually have her served.


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## raging_pain

so i got home about five seconds before WS did (she had the kids at the store), and WS is acting all clingy, trying to initiate conversation after conversation. I keep it as abrupt as possible, giving short answers and not engaging in chances of conversation. 

Then after the kids are down for their naps, WS says to me "it bothers me that you think i had an affair". i tell her about how she has been trickle-truthing me, and how i don't believe her when she says she hasn't had a PA with OM. She keeps denying it & pressing me on why i think that way, no doubt trying to determine what I actually know. I keep repeating that I know her so well, and that it's pretty obvious when she lies. We go back and forth like this for a while, then she tells me that next week she is going to file and that I need to move out. I slipped up and said that I was also going to file on Monday and that she is the one that needs to move out, since she is the one that wants out. WS said that "that's something that a judge will have to decide then", and began to talk about how we could possibly lose the kids if this got super-ugly. I told WS that if she was truly concerned about the kids, there are much better ways to limiting the risk of the courts taking our children (namely trying to work this **** out). 

This took her aback; she backpedaled slightly and fell back on the "it will be cheaper if we go to mediation instead of doing it through the courts". Then she asked me if I was going to file on Monday. I lied and said no, to try and buy myself some time. She asked me if I was going to go back on the custody issue (we had previously spoke about doing 50/50), i gave WS a non-answer and said I don't know what's going to happen, especially since i can't trust a single word WS says. 

Now i'm outside splitting wood while WS naps on the couch and the kids nap upstairs. I'm scared sh1tless, I don't know what she's going to do. Thankfully I recorded the conversation earlier.


I am going to file on Monday. It's going to go file->expose->confront. I'm terrified of what is to come.


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## aug

fear is normal. Soon it'll pass. 

She leaves. She can stay where she was staying. Or she can move in with her lover.


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## walkonmars

> .*..She even said that she "wished she could kill me" at one point, ...*


This is disconcerting. If you have a recorder you might want to record a conversation where you say something like: "remember when you said you wished you could kill me? It's been bothering me a lot lately" The point is to arm yourself with ammo for the divorce. You can threaten to use it later if things get ugly during mediation.

Also, the threat *IS* something I would be concerned about - unless she said it in a joking way.

Be very careful - especially if you know your wife is impulsive and given to act rashly. Literally - watch your back.


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## 3putt

raging, when you go to file I would also have the POSOM subpoenaed as well. Your lawyer will try and talk you out of it, saying it won't matter, but don't let him. Tell him you want this POS on the stand with his right hand in the air and left on the bible.

You can even tell your WW of these intentions before you actually do file. Her face will be priceless, and it certainly will get back to POS immediately.


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## the guy

It sounds like your wife wash fishing for your source. Good job on keeping it to your self. It also sound like your wife pulled the divorce card out and you counter it very well.

Stay strong prepare for the worst and retain a lawyer its the second best way to protect your self, the first way is to have your spy gear (keylogger VAR, GPS) in place so you know what she is planning.

Once she gets served you will know exactly what your next step is, she will see you are serious, she will know you have proof, and it will be up to her to end this affair or not.

As of now she has no reason to end this affair, but I do have to say she has to feel the effects of your new found confidence.... The new found confidence that your current action is justified. She got her 1st taste of the new raging pain!

I think with in a week or two you will have clear direction, as scary as it is you will have direction...lets just hope she comes out of the fog enough to at least come to the table and work it out.


IMHO, as of now I see no other "weapon" in fighting this affiar other then being served. Hopefully with in the waiting period before the D is finalized she wakes up. Then again this could be an exit affair.


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## the guy

3putt said:


> raging, when you go to file I would also have the POSOM subpoenaed as well. Your lawyer will try and talk you out of it, saying it won't matter, but don't let him. Tell him you want this POS on the stand with his right hand in the air and left on the bible.
> 
> You can even tell your WW of these intentions before you actually do file. Her face will be priceless, and it certainly will get back to POS immediately.


@3putt, I would stay dark, any more info OP reveals just gives WW more time to do her own damage control.

RP's plan is the best bet in not allowing him looking like the bad guy, its all about damage control and making the affair as inconvienent as possible.

See if the exposure come before the divorce WW always say "they would have worked it out but since you told everyone I'm leaving".

WW needs to see that RP is letting go off her untils NC w/OM is confirmed.


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## the guy

RP, my wife never asked for a divorce and was a big time cake eater, but once I confronted my wife and she started blamshifting the scariest thing was backing her crap up...it was only then that she realized I was no longer willing to share her with another man.

I'll never forget how scared I was , it was the best thing I did, it was a defining moument. and she started crying and told be she didn't want to leave.

I hope some time between her getting served and the D being finalized your wife tells you she doesn't want a divorce.


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## raging_pain

walkonmars said:


> This is disconcerting. If you have a recorder you might want to record a conversation where you say something like: "remember when you said you wished you could kill me? It's been bothering me a lot lately" The point is to arm yourself with ammo for the divorce. You can threaten to use it later if things get ugly during mediation.
> 
> Also, the threat *IS* something I would be concerned about - unless she said it in a joking way.
> 
> Be very careful - especially if you know your wife is impulsive and given to act rashly. Literally - watch your back.


Yeah, you're not the first one that has considered that she may actually be capable of it. Other people have also told me to watch my back, and I am. I'm more scared for the kids' safety than my own though.. She was not joking either. She admitted what she said to her therapist (she told me her therapist got really pissed at her for threatening me), can the therapist be subpoenaed to confirm the threat? I think that, if it's in regards to custody, she can be.


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## walkonmars

raging_pain said:


> ...can the therapist be subpoenaed to confirm the threat? I think that, if it's in regards to custody, she can be.


I don't know about where you live but in Texas there is no obligation to warn.. but perhaps subpoena? Look at your state codes for "therapist responsibility to warn of threats"

"_In Texas, if a health care provider wishes to warn of a threat of violence directed by a patient towards a third party, the provider may choose to either notify or not notify local law enforcement pursuant to Section 611.004 (a)(2). This is the permissive element of the statute. The health care provider owes no duty to inform local law enforcement if a threat of violence has been made._"

edit to add;
Consider asking the therapist to notify the PD of the threat - at least you'll have it documented.


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## walkonmars

On the strength of the earlier threat and your fear of potential harm to the kids, consider also applying for a TRO when you get the divorce papers. It will keep her out of the house and away from the kids for at least 10 days ... and can be extended for at least a month if you can get the therapist to verify the threat.


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## warlock07

Stop talking to her if she keeps lying. Her image matters for her obviously.



> WS says to me "it bothers me that you think i had an affair"


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## tom67

After you file on monday expose to her family your family and friends too bad if she doesn't like it.


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## raging_pain

Keylogger is back in place. She got super pissed when I wouldn't relent on saying I didn't believe her. Ultimately it came down to "if you don't believe me, then f*ck you". I told her that was real mature, all the while keeping a cool head. She told me I was being disrespectful to her... the gall of this woman. I asked her if I was being disrespectful to her over her affair, or because I didn't take her at her word after so many lies?

She countered that she didn't want to tell me about certain things (still without admitting to any PA) because I would think this divorce is about the affair and not our own problems. She is trying her damndest to confuse me and conflate the issues. 

I secured the money for the lawyer's retainer fee, so it's all set to begin on Monday. 

Two questions I still have: When I expose the affair to her family, do I forward the one gem of an email? I would need to present proof along with my accusation, right? Otherwise people will just think I'm nuts.. 

Also, who do I all include in the initial email blast? Right now I'm only considering her immediate family, and my immediate family.. I'm not sure how far I want to take this aspect of it. Honestly I think limiting it to our immediate families would have the desired effect, but I'm not sure what I'm not considering.. 'Unknown unknowns' and all that


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## TCSRedhead

She'll get worse after exposure. She will tell you that you had no right, that it was all your fault, that she hasn't loved you for years, etc. Disregard and stay the course. By pulling back the curtain and exposing her dirty little secret, you are forcing the addict to face what she has done.

Immediate family, definitely yes. Friends can be trickier when it comes to affairs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

raging_pain said:


> Keylogger is back in place. She got super pissed when I wouldn't relent on saying I didn't believe her. Ultimately it came down to "if you don't believe me, then f*ck you". I told her that was real mature, all the while keeping a cool head. She told me I was being disrespectful to her... the gall of this woman. I asked her if I was being disrespectful to her over her affair, or because I didn't take her at her word after so many lies?
> 
> She countered that she didn't want to tell me about certain things (still without admitting to any PA) because I would think this divorce is about the affair and not our own problems. She is trying her damndest to confuse me and conflate the issues.
> 
> I secured the money for the lawyer's retainer fee, so it's all set to begin on Monday.
> 
> Two questions I still have: When I expose the affair to her family, do I forward the one gem of an email? I would need to present proof along with my accusation, right? Otherwise people will just think I'm nuts..
> 
> Also, who do I all include in the initial email blast? Right now I'm only considering her immediate family, and my immediate family.. I'm not sure how far I want to take this aspect of it. Honestly I think limiting it to our immediate families would have the desired effect, but I'm not sure what I'm not considering.. 'Unknown unknowns' and all that


You don't do this by email blast. You call up your and her family and close friends and let them know. Keep it to a couple minutes each, let them know you have to get off the phone. You tell them you have proof, if they ask what it is, you tell them that you don't want to say what it is, but that it is solid proof. If you have been a stand-up guy in the past, and you've never run around half-****ed before, they will not think you are nuts, they will believe you. If they ask her about it, her attitude and answers will give her away - they will doubt her sincerity; they won't doubt yours.

Only if you can't get them on the phone, you send an email, and then you send a separate email to each one and start it with "I tried to call you but didn't get through, and I didn't want to leave this on a voicemail."


----------



## Will_Kane

TCSRedhead said:


> She'll get worse after exposure. She will tell you that you had no right, that it was all your fault, that she hasn't loved you for years, etc. Disregard and stay the course. By pulling back the curtain and exposing her dirty little secret, you are forcing the addict to face what she has done.
> 
> Immediate family, definitely yes. Friends can be trickier when it comes to affairs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Immediate family and close friends who are like family.

She will be very angry after you expose. Tell her that you are fighting for her and fighting for your family, that it was not vindictive, that you love her and love your family and you are not giving up without a fight. Tell her all you did was tell the truth. Stick to lines like that, repeat them over and over. Don't engage her in arguments.


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## warlock07

She countered that she didn't want to tell me about certain things (still without admitting to any PA) because I would think this divorce is about the affair and not our own problems. 

Who is she to decide what the real reasons are. Let everyone come to their own reasons after everything is out in the clear. Of course everything you did is a reason for you 2 splitting up while that part when she has sex with other people doesn't matter.


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## roostr

I have to be honest, If I had a smoking gun of my wife having a PA, I would drop what ever I was doing to get to the lawyer to file for divorce. Dont even think twice about it, she made a choice for another man. 
1. Its the right thing to do.
2. It will put her life into turmoil.
3. It will put a big damper on her affair, they will both look at the situation different, it will no longer be the very exciting secretive affair, it will now become the typical man/woman relationship, big difference imo. 
4. The OM will now look at things different, he will suddenly become "stuck" with her and a real relationship now that the excitement is dampened. 
At this point, she will either come to her senses and end the affair, or actually stick with the OM which at least you will know and can move on with your life. 
If it were me, I would then ask her to call me before she comes to the house, just in case I have a date there.... in your bed.
You hit her with all this and she now has a big mess, not a comfortable life having it all her way, stay strong, this is very important. Ive learned a lot on this forum, what sticks out the most to me is you cannot take the apoproach that you hope and pray that she will come to her senses and end the affair. You have to take action to force the issue.


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## the guy

raging_pain said:


> Keylogger is back in place. She got super pissed when I wouldn't relent on saying I didn't believe her. Ultimately it came down to "if you don't believe me, then f*ck you". I told her that was real mature, all the while keeping a cool head. She told me I was being disrespectful to her... the gall of this woman. I asked her if I was being disrespectful to her over her affair, or because I didn't take her at her word after so many lies?
> 
> She countered that she didn't want to tell me about certain things (still without admitting to any PA) because I would think this divorce is about the affair and not our own problems. She is trying her damndest to confuse me and conflate the issues.
> 
> I secured the money for the lawyer's retainer fee, so it's all set to begin on Monday.
> 
> Two questions I still have: When I expose the affair to her family, do I forward the one gem of an email? I would need to present proof along with my accusation, right? Otherwise people will just think I'm nuts..
> 
> Also, who do I all include in the initial email blast? Right now I'm only considering her immediate family, and my immediate family.. I'm not sure how far I want to take this aspect of it. Honestly I think limiting it to our immediate families would have the desired effect, but I'm not sure what I'm not considering.. 'Unknown unknowns' and all that


I would expose the affair by stating

" I'm asking for your support in our marriage but until WW face her infidelity and answers to the following email I was *given* or *provided* (disinformation by making it look like someone gave it to you), my current path is to head for a divorce. Until I can verify that WW is no longer contacting OM and does the heavy lifting to affair proof the marriage I will stay the course. Please support us in the hopes that i can withdraw the filing and we can save this family"

See you want to do the damage control (you already now her take she will blame the marriage) your exposure points the finger at her affair and your attempt to R if she comes clean.

As far as schedule goes stay quite she may are may not believe your will file on monday so stop talking. On monday tell her you never made it to the lawyers. On monday ask the lawer when they plan on serving her. If Friday is the day she gets served then Friday is the day the emails go out asking for support in ending this affair and addressing the WW email so R can begain and WW learns the tools to affair proof the marriage.

File, then have her served on the same day you expose with email evidence.

Again, ASK FOR SUPPORT FOR THE MARRIAGE first and formost, then expose the email avidence and how that needs to be addressed in order to stop/withdraw the divorce papers.

STOP SHOWING YOUR HAND, you are to engaged with your WW, your confrontation is at stake.

I


----------



## the guy

Be prepared, if she gets served on Friday or sometime next week she will start making phone call to family and friends telling them about the divorce and in turn she will be informed of the email evidence (which will shoot down any damage control she tries to attempt) she will be pissed.

If the timing is right your WW will be informed/confronted on the email evidence while tell family and friend about the divorce.

If any thing (if the lawyer screws up and doesn't have her served when they say....it happen) make sure the " marriage support letter/ email evidence is recieved 1st by family and friends.

This tactic is better damage control, if it happens the other way around the WW has the upper hand on the her damage control.

Its better to have family and friends call WW a day earlier then WW getting served. Your WW will be so pissed she will want a divorce then when she gets served the next day she will get what she wanted. Then when you cut her off the only support she will have is with OM, then OM will be like screw the "to much baggage", then your WW will see the reality to her fantasy and come out of the fog.

Not a perfect plan, but a reality check for sure. You need the upper hand on the damage control so if exposure can't happen on the same day as being served, then the exposure should happen sooner then being serverd.

Talk to the lawyer and get a time frame on how soon she can be served.


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## raging_pain

More confusion: WW told me today that she will not be leaving the house any more, contrary to our 2-3day rotation arrangement. She said it's "for the kids", but it sounded exactly like I sounded in the beginning.

When this all began I had done some reading on child custody; what I had learned was that by one of the parents leaving for evenings or whatever it could be viewed as abandonment. After a few days of incredibly painful arguments, I agreed to give her space and rotate evenings in the house with her (This was well before I knew of the affair). We've been rotating ever since.

She was almost anxious to tell me she wouldn't be leaving any more. I clearly won't be leaving either. It is very unexpected behavior, perhaps she is sensing something is up?


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## warlock07

Don't let her see your posts here. Delete the history when you leave the computer


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## TCSRedhead

If you get up to thirty posts, have the mods move this to private. She may not know about TAM but she's starting to realize you might be serious. 

Let her wonder. Don't confirm or deny. Change the subject. Say you don't want to talk about anything unpleasant. Whatever it takes to keep her in the dark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## raging_pain

Like I said, i do IT for a living, she has no means of snooping on me... afaik


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## raging_pain

going to make a few separate posts so i can hit that 30 mark 

WW wants to discuss some more issues regarding mediation tonight after the kids are asleep, I definitely will take RedHead's advice and tell her I don't want to discuss it.


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## raging_pain

god this **** is creeping me out


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## the guy

raging_pain said:


> going to make a few separate posts so i can hit that 30 mark
> 
> WW wants to discuss some more issues regarding mediation tonight after the kids are asleep, I definitely will take RedHead's advice and tell her I don't want to discuss it.


Good idea, the less you engage her the less of a chance in revealing your confrontation.

I find it interesting that the affair has cooled off, what kind of intel confirms this?

It appears she is planning...as should you!

I wonder if she keeps bring up mediation to see if you will start to beg for the marriage?

It deffiniatly appears that she is sencing the new raging-pain.

I'm also curious to see how her behavior changes towards the marriage now that OM doesn't have the influence he once had before your WW got so concerned for the kids.

Once you retain the lawyer and the paper work gets filed and served it will be a few days. With her being away from OM...well at least in person she may start to value the family more. Raise your attraction level and see how she reacts.


----------



## the guy

raging_pain said:


> Two questions I still have: When I expose the affair to her family, do I forward the one gem of an email? I would need to present proof along with my accusation, right? Otherwise people will just think I'm nuts..
> 
> Also, who do I all include in the initial email blast? Right now I'm only considering her immediate family, and my immediate family.. I'm not sure how far I want to take this aspect of it. Honestly I think limiting it to our immediate families would have the desired effect, but I'm not sure what I'm not considering.. 'Unknown unknowns' and all that


Have you figured out your game plan?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

raging_pain said:


> More confusion: *WW told me today that she will not be leaving the house any more, contrary to our 2-3day rotation arrangement.* She said it's "for the kids", but it sounded exactly like I sounded in the beginning.
> 
> *When this all began I had done some reading on child custody; what I had learned was that by one of the parents leaving for evenings or whatever it could be viewed as abandonment. *After a few days of incredibly painful arguments, I agreed to give her space and rotate evenings in the house with her (This was well before I knew of the affair). We've been rotating ever since.
> 
> *She was almost anxious to tell me she wouldn't be leaving any more.* I clearly won't be leaving either. It is very unexpected behavior, perhaps she is sensing something is up?


She's further along in the process than you thought. She is clearly getting some advice from someone. She may already be talking to an attorney, advice from the OM or her divorced friend whose been through this already. Good luck and hope you catch up to her quick.


----------



## Shaggy

It's possible that she is going into battle mode with you, and if she is getting advice from some trashy friends its possible they know about this forum.

1. She may be doing a cooling off with the piece if trash OM to bolster her lie of no affair. The women on doccool do this routinely.

2. She is planning on pulling something like fake domestic abuse calls and she wants the family home to be her clear place of residence so she insnt the one made to leave.

3. She is being coached to go for the kids and house and has plans on moving the OM in.

You say she was having him over on the nights you weren't there? Have you condidered hiring a PI to watch her these next few weeks to catch when they do hook up.


Oh, when you do exposé remember to call the OMs family and friends, and heck even his boss. If he's been stepping out on long lunches to hook up the boss might be interested in the tale.


----------



## sandc

raging_pain said:


> She was almost anxious to tell me she wouldn't be leaving any more. I clearly won't be leaving either. It is very unexpected behavior, perhaps she is sensing something is up?


Yeah... she's talked to a lawyer.

When you expose, be sure to expose to the OM too. Let him know that she's all his now. It will definitely dampen his enthusiasm for her.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Please be sure you don't leave the home again - just stay put. Keep the course. Dodge the relationship questions: you're tired, you're confused, you're not ready to discuss it. 

Let her babble all she wants, DO NOT RESPOND no matter what she says. She will alternate from sweet and loving to hateful and cold, trying to illicit a response. 

If you have a gym membership, this is a good time to get some use out of it. Take out your pain and frustration there.


----------



## remorseful strayer

the guy said:


> As you can see your wife has little concern for you and until you serve her she will continue to think she has your number.
> 
> 
> Having been here for a while the type of affair you are dealing with is one of of the most toxic because your wife is so fogged in that she is willing to give up everything for OM the problem is OM is not so here your wife is willing to let you go but afraid to loss the security and stabliity you offer.
> 
> So in this case you must force your hand by filing, if your lucky the Om gets scared off think that your wife will be his problem for now on. I think the OM tells your WW to work on the marriage while banging your wife, that way he has no strings attached to your WW.
> 
> Some thing tells me making your wife more available to OM by serving WW will scare him off.
> 
> Until the OM is out of the picture your wife will be in the fantasy fog.


I agree wit this. 

I dropped the OW ASAP on Dday, but the OW, did not want to end it. 

Women cheat for different reasons. Men typically want sex, women want emotional connections.

If she hasn't dropped the OM, you need to serve her. 

She is cake eating. If she loved you and he was just a sex object, she would drop him.


----------



## raging_pain

OK. Here's where things have gone:

I filed for divorce last Monday. I named the OM in the papers. I told WS about it this Wednesday morning, mainly because I couldn't stand keeping secrets from her. She has not been served the papers (mainly because of me dragging my feet). She was shocked and started crying. I told her we were not going to discuss anything further about it until our MC appointment the next day.

I exposed the affair to as many people as possible. It seems to have scared OM off, they haven't communicated by any means that I am aware of for two weeks. In fact, he was out of town up until a week ago, and she sent a "hi are you back from vacation yet?" email to him to which he did not respond (afaik), and her attitude visibly changed from that point. She knew he was back, probed him, and no response. This seems to have sobered her up a bit from her fantasy land. 

When we were at MC I began the session by saying I didn't know what the point was since there was still another man in the picture, to which she responded "there are no other men, and there won't be for a long while" in this defeated tone of voice. I took this as confirmation that they have indeed not spoken, since she seemed humiliated about it. Perhaps i'm just engaging in wishful thinking, whatever.

The MC went really well, all things considered. We both left feeling good about ourselves and each other. She said she was relieved that I did what I did, since we wouldn't have to wait the months that the mediator was saying it would take for the papers to be filed.

Right now I'm of the opinion that I'm done with her bullsh1t. I'm not dismissing anything, and she's "not writing me off" (her words) so no doors are closed.. I'm just done with the emotional roller-coaster that the last month has been. It has provided relief for both of us. I separated our finances too. Essentially I've removed all control from her that she used to have, and it seems to have shocked the **** out of her. 

We are talking about her moving out into her own place, but every time we discuss it she seems less enthusiastic about it. Again maybe that's my own misperceptions.


----------



## keko

raging_pain said:


> OK. Here's where things have gone:
> 
> I filed for divorce last Monday. I named the OM in the papers. I told WS about it this Wednesday morning, mainly because I couldn't stand keeping secrets from her. She has not been served the papers (mainly because of me dragging my feet). She was shocked and started crying. I told her we were not going to discuss anything further about it until our MC appointment the next day.
> 
> I exposed the affair to as many people as possible. It seems to have scared OM off, they haven't communicated by any means that I am aware of for two weeks. In fact, he was out of town up until a week ago, and she sent a "hi are you back from vacation yet?" email to him to which he did not respond (afaik), and her attitude visibly changed from that point. She knew he was back, probed him, and no response. This seems to have sobered her up a bit from her fantasy land.
> 
> When we were at MC I began the session by saying I didn't know what the point was since there was still another man in the picture, to which she responded "there are no other men, and *there won't be for a long while*" in this defeated tone of voice. I took this as confirmation that they have indeed not spoken, since she seemed humiliated about it. Perhaps i'm just engaging in wishful thinking, whatever.
> 
> The MC went really well, all things considered. We both left feeling good about ourselves and each other. She said she was relieved that I did what I did, since we wouldn't have to wait the months that the mediator was saying it would take for the papers to be filed.
> 
> Right now I'm of the opinion that I'm done with her bullsh1t. I'm not dismissing anything, and she's "not writing me off" (her words) so no doors are closed.. I'm just done with the emotional roller-coaster that the last month has been. It has provided relief for both of us. I separated our finances too. Essentially I've removed all control from her that she used to have, and it seems to have shocked the **** out of her.
> 
> We are talking about her moving out into her own place, but every time we discuss it she seems less enthusiastic about it. Again maybe that's my own misperceptions.


You do know what she meant by this right?


----------



## TCSRedhead

How are you doing with this? Is it feeling like you've taken some control back in your life?

What is she saying about contacting the OM still or does she know that you know?


----------



## raging_pain

keko said:


> You do know what she meant by this right?


well, mind reading has never been my strong suit.. but it sounded like bluster to me

so no, i guess i don't


----------



## raging_pain

TCSRedhead said:


> How are you doing with this? Is it feeling like you've taken some control back in your life?
> 
> What is she saying about contacting the OM still or does she know that you know?


I do feel like i've taken some control back. I'm still insanely angry at her for what she's doing to our family, but at least I'm not in limbo any more.

She hasn't said anything regarding contacting the OM. She is still unaware of my access to her secret email.


----------



## keko

raging_pain said:


> well, mind reading has never been my strong suit.. but it sounded like bluster to me
> 
> so no, i guess i don't


She's not sure if she'll be able to stay loyal much long before another OM(s) gets her attention.

This is another example of how similar all affair's run their course. So sad. I'm sorry for you, this is only the beginning and you have a long, rough road ahead of you.


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck RP. Are you thinking reconcilliation is a possibility or are you done.

What have you learned about the OM/affair, how long has it benn going on?

You should print the text of findingmyway's post about how players target married women and give it to her. Its on this page. 7th post down

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/42341-any-former-players-womanizers-here-tams.html


----------



## warlock07

how long was her her going on? have you exposed the OM too?


----------



## raging_pain

keko said:


> She's not sure if she'll be able to stay loyal much long before another OM(s) gets her attention.
> 
> This is another example of how similar all affair's run their course. So sad. I'm sorry for you, this is only the beginning and you have a long, rough road ahead of you.


ah.. well, she's already not loyal, and the divorce has been filed. if she decides that she wants to reconcile, then I guess i'll worry about that if it comes to it. otherwise, i don't see the point in dwelling on it. i personally am not going to spurn advances from women any more. why should i? WW wants out, i'm giving her what she wants and will act accordingly. if she changes her mind, then we can talk. 

filing the papers has liberated me to some extent. i'm no longer enslaved to her whims. whatever happens, happens.


----------



## raging_pain

chapparal said:


> Good luck RP. Are you thinking reconcilliation is a possibility or are you done.
> 
> What have you learned about the OM/affair, how long has it benn going on?
> 
> You should print the text of findingmyway's post about how players target married women and give it to her. Its on this page. 7th post down
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/42341-any-former-players-womanizers-here-tams.html


reconciliation is a possibility, but she has to initiate it. i am through jumping through her mental gymnastics. 

the affair was going on for ~1 month. 

holy **** reading findingmyway's post pissed me off LOL


----------



## remorseful strayer

raging_pain said:


> Reading this forum has been eye-opening. So many people have had similar experiences, it's really freaking creepy. I've been reading a bit here, so bear with me. Here's my story:
> 
> About one month ago, my wife told me she wants a divorce. I was completely blindsided by it. We have two little boys together, ages 3 & 2.
> 
> Long story short, my WS explained that there were many things throughout our marriage that she's been unhappy with. She said that it is too late for another chance at the marriage. We both began seeing therapists individually, and a marriage counselor together. She would go back and forth with her feelings, whipping me around like a roller-coaster. She would tell me that she "doesn't know why she can't give me a second chance, but she can't". She would say that she "needs to work on herself and can't do it while she's with me."
> 
> Until I discovered this forum, I was of the opinion that the WS and I, with great effort, could make a better marriage for us both and for our children. She would simply repeat that "it is too late". We've only had two marriage counseling sessions so far, and at the end of the last one the therapist took us both aside individually. I don't know what she said to my WS, but she told me that "though she doesn't want to reconcile, do not give up, there's always a chance".
> 
> Then, I discovered evidence of her affair (with a _former_ friend of mine!) She had been insisting that their relationship was platonic, but began trickle-truthing me about things that have happened. She admitted that she's been lying to me about certain things (without elaborating on what) and that she does it (the lying) because she needs her privacy and I'm not a part of that aspect of her life. She insisted nothing physical has happened. I found a damning email from her to him stating otherwise.
> 
> I have not confronted her with the email evidence yet. She doesn't know that I am aware of her secret email account. I want to draw up the divorce papers and serve her with them, then possibly expose the affair to her friends and family after the fact.
> 
> However I'm not sure how to proceed. The WS has been beating me over the head with the threat of filing divorce papers for the entire time, which would usually result in me saying "just go do it then", which she wouldn't do. Then, the marriage counselor suggested that we postpone any action of that sort until after the holidays, so that we could get in 4-5 sessions of marriage counseling before any action is taken. This was all said before I discovered the PA however.
> 
> I never knew I could feel this much anger and pain. Please give me some advice, something, anything. I don't know what to do. I can't trust a single word she says. She even said that she "wished she could kill me" at one point, though she said she didn't mean it and profusely apologized for it later that night and again the next day.
> 
> What should I do??


Don't make her aware that you know of the secret email. Save the messages, in a safe deposit box in hard copy and on a portable computer stick. 

She may not want to admit to the affair because she may get less in the divorce. 

Blind side her with the divorce papers, without apprising her of the affair. This may wake her up to reality. 

A divorce takes a while so you can always later choose to reconcile. 

Continuing the affair, while blaming you and lying to you is very cruel on your wife's part.

Edited to add:

Sorry, I just got to your post where you said you filed. Good work


----------



## 3putt

keko said:


> She's not sure if she'll be able to stay loyal much long before another OM(s) gets her attention.


That was my initial reaction as well, but after thinking about it and in all fairness, she _could've_ meant after the divorce was final.


----------



## WyshIknew

I would say 'well done' but I don't think congratulations are in order for what you have had to do.

You have merely done exactly what you had to do.

If the OM was a player and is now 'gone' to find his next lay be prepared for your WW to want back in. She may not, some don't, they are too far gone or too ashamed and aware of how badly they have messed up and will never apologise.

Now can you loan your man sized cojones to some of the other guys on CWI? Because they need them!


----------



## WyshIknew

raging_pain said:


> About one month ago, my wife told me she wants a divorce.





raging_pain said:


> the affair was going on for ~1 month.


Goodness me! who'd have thunk it?

It's almost as though the affair fog had a factor in this.


----------



## raging_pain

WyshIknew said:


> Goodness me! who'd have thunk it?
> 
> It's almost as though the affair fog had a factor in this.


i know, right? shocking

the only real question at this point is: will she pull her head out of her ass in time to avoid damaging our children, or will she remain a stubborn jerk and see it through, because she can't admit ever being wrong?

time will tell


and anyone here is free to borrow my man-sized cojones, i honestly don't feel like i'm being brave or anything.. just doing what needs to be done.


----------



## livinfree

RP, this is a tough spot to be in, I know just how you feel. Your timing was good. 

I wasn't able to get the OM named in my divorce papers, how did you do it and where? I'm in a no-fault state, BTW.

I'm an IT guy too, seems to be a trend.


----------



## raging_pain

no fault state here too... i just told the lawyer that i wanted to name the OM in the divorce papers. actually i don't think he's specifically named (lawyer mentioned something about not specifically naming the person) so who knows, i've only seen the draft...

you're an IT guy too, eh? fascinating, and scary at the same time... perhaps we have a aura about us that screams TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME, I'M A SUCKER

**** i'm pissed


----------



## livinfree

raging_pain said:


> no fault state here too... i just told the lawyer that i wanted to name the OM in the divorce papers. actually i don't think he's specifically named (lawyer mentioned something about not specifically naming the person) so who knows, i've only seen the draft...
> 
> you're an IT guy too, eh? fascinating, and scary at the same time... perhaps we have a aura about us that screams TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME, I'M A SUCKER
> 
> **** i'm pissed


I asked to have the OM named and my paralegal said I couldn't. I may find a way with some kind of clause.

Yep. I've cut the computer time off when at home and focus solely on my son and found cooking as a great new past time.


----------



## happyman64

RP

Good moves so far. What you should have mentioned in your D papers and in the email to family was the "death" threat.

That just will show your wife and family how far gone she is.

The fact they knew she threatened you and was the cheater would have really made her look bad.

And she deserves it!

Not too bash her but to let her know she went too far....

Protect yourself. Put the OM on cheaterville.

After the D, if you do D. Put your wife on there too.

Good Luck.

I hope things work out the way you wat them to.

HM64


----------



## Will_Kane

raging_pain said:


> OK. Here's where things have gone:
> 
> I filed for divorce last Monday. I named the OM in the papers. I told WS about it this Wednesday morning, mainly because I couldn't stand keeping secrets from her. She has not been served the papers (mainly because of me dragging my feet). She was shocked and started crying. I told her we were not going to discuss anything further about it until our MC appointment the next day.
> 
> *I exposed the affair to as many people as possible. It seems to have scared OM off*, they haven't communicated by any means that I am aware of for two weeks. In fact, he was out of town up until a week ago, and she sent a "hi are you back from vacation yet?" email to him to which he did not respond (afaik), and her attitude visibly changed from that point. She knew he was back, probed him, and no response. This seems to have sobered her up a bit from her fantasy land.
> 
> When we were at MC I began the session by saying I didn't know what the point was since *there was still another man in the picture, to which she responded "there are no other men, and there won't be for a long while" in this defeated tone of voice*. I took this as confirmation that they have indeed not spoken, since she seemed humiliated about it. Perhaps i'm just engaging in wishful thinking, whatever.
> 
> The MC went really well, all things considered. *We both left feeling good about ourselves and each other. She said she was relieved that I did what I did, since we wouldn't have to wait the months that the mediator was saying it would take for the papers to be filed*.
> 
> Right now I'm of the opinion that I'm done with her bullsh1t. I'm not dismissing anything, and *she's "not writing me off"* (her words) so no doors are closed.. I'm just done with the emotional roller-coaster that the last month has been. It has provided relief for both of us. I separated our finances too. Essentially *I've removed all control from her that she used to have, and it seems to have shocked the **** out of her*.
> 
> *We are talking about her moving out into her own place*, but every time we discuss it she seems less enthusiastic about it. Again maybe that's my own misperceptions.


I'm a little confused.

Does your wife know that you know about the other man and the extent of their relationship (i.e., that it's not just platonic)? If so, does she admit to a sexual relationship, a romantic relationship, or she still is sticking to it's all just platonic?

When you exposed "far and wide," I'm assuming you told your family, her family, friends, other man's relatives? What did you tell them? That she is cheating on you with other man? If so, does your wife know you exposed it far and wide? And what did your wife have to say about the exposure?

You say you left the counselor feeling good about yourselves and each other. Meaning you feel good about your wife and she about you? Even though you caught her cheating, filed for divorce, and outed her to all those near and dear to her? Could you elaborate on this?

As it stands now, she is saying she is happy that you filed for divorce, she still is planning on moving out, but she seems a little shell-shocked and not as enthusiastic? And she told you she's not writing you off? As if it's ultimately her choice, and not yours, too, whether to reconcile?


----------



## raging_pain

So WS wrote OM an email yesterday, saying something along the lines of "i was wondering if you called on a restricted #" and detailing how living in the same house as me "sucks". WS then says "please call me". she then checked her secret email acct. throughout the night, with no reply from OM. no calls either. 

i am having a hard time understanding how she can be so ****ing selfish.


----------



## raging_pain

Will_Kane said:


> I'm a little confused.
> 
> Does your wife know that you know about the other man and the extent of their relationship (i.e., that it's not just platonic)? If so, does she admit to a sexual relationship, a romantic relationship, or she still is sticking to it's all just platonic?


she knows i know, but she doesn't know i have evidence. she continues to insist that it was not physical, but she does admit to the EA. 



> When you exposed "far and wide," I'm assuming you told your family, her family, friends, other man's relatives? What did you tell them? That she is cheating on you with other man? If so, does your wife know you exposed it far and wide? And what did your wife have to say about the exposure?


i've told her family, and OM's and my mutual friends. i mention it to as many people as i can that know OM. i told them that she is having an affair with OM. i have not mentioned to WS that i've spread the news, i didn't see the point. she'll figure it out if she can, and if not, whatever.



> You say you left the counselor feeling good about yourselves and each other. Meaning you feel good about your wife and she about you? Even though you caught her cheating, filed for divorce, and outed her to all those near and dear to her? Could you elaborate on this?


i only meant that we actually had a civil and productive conversation in MC. we haven't had one in a long time. otherwise i'm still insanely pissed off at her, and want her out of my house as fast as freaking possible.



> As it stands now, she is saying she is happy that you filed for divorce, she still is planning on moving out, but she seems a little shell-shocked and not as enthusiastic? And she told you she's not writing you off? As if it's ultimately her choice, and not yours, too, whether to reconcile?


she is so deep in her own fantasy land that she still thinks she's calling the shots, as evidenced by her most recent email. that world is beginning to unravel for her, as it seems like OM has been scared off (i hope that isn't wishful thinking on my part). but yeah, you're pretty close to the mark. shell-shocked, beginning to doubt her actions. she's got a stubborn streak that can get way out of control, and this is definitely what is happening now. 

but yes, she is a control freak, and likes to try to establish her control in any way possible. even if it's in her own thoughts. that's why when i filed she was taken aback, since i took control from her. she'll do everything she can to re-establish that control. too bad it's not going to happen though LOL.


----------



## Will_Kane

raging_pain said:


> it seems like OM has been scared off (i hope that isn't wishful thinking on my part).
> 
> but yes, she is a control freak, and likes to try to establish her control in any way possible. even if it's in her own thoughts. that's why when i filed she was taken aback, since i took control from her. she'll do everything she can to re-establish that control. too bad it's not going to happen though LOL.


If her OM is like most OM, the "scaring off" will not last. After a few weeks, when things die down and people stop mentioning it, he may come sniffing around again. The desire for secret forbidden fruit is very strong.

Based on the posts I've seen here, the "control freak" and "stubborn" cheaters rarely give up the affairs easily. I don't know what your personal situation is, whether she was always that way, or became more and more that way the longer you were married to her, but if she's used to you ultimately giving in and conceding to her when you have differences of opinion, she likely will not believe you actually will go through with the divorce until it actually happens. The more you can be detached and unemotional, the sooner she will believe you are serious.

If you want to reconcile, it is a bit of hard line to walk, but you could let her know that. Since you said you had a productive session in marriage counseling, it may be a good time to let her know that you love her and want to work on your marriage, and that you would be willing to improve any legitimate faults you have, but she has to cut all contact with other man, send a no contact letter, give you transparency, and whatever other things you need to reestablish trust and help you feel she is committing to you. Maybe wait a few days with no more contact with other man, see how she is acting, before you consider trying something like this. The trouble with this approach is that it may empower her to think that she can hold out until the day before the divorce is final before giving you a half-assed commitment to work on the marriage. You don't want that.

If you go this route, tell her that you can't go on in limbo, you've got to know in the next five minutes whether this is what she wants. If she waffles, tell her you will proceed with the divorce and if the two of you want to get back together, then you can re-consider it after the divorce is final.

You sound like you ARE actually detached and ready to move on, which makes ACTING that way so much easier.


----------



## raging_pain

Will_Kane said:


> If her OM is like most OM, the "scaring off" will not last. After a few weeks, when things die down and people stop mentioning it, he may come sniffing around again. The desire for secret forbidden fruit is very strong.


indeed. i hope to have the divorce final well before then.



> Based on the posts I've seen here, the "control freak" and "stubborn" cheaters rarely give up the affairs easily. I don't know what your personal situation is, whether she was always that way, or became more and more that way the longer you were married to her, but if she's used to you ultimately giving in and conceding to her when you have differences of opinion, she likely will not believe you actually will go through with the divorce until it actually happens. The more you can be detached and unemotional, the sooner she will believe you are serious.


i have gotten a bit of an intuition in the same manner from her. so far the only thing she has to prove that i've done what i've said is my word, and i'm sure part of her doesn't believe it. though she did mention it in her recent email to OM, so who knows..



> If you want to reconcile, it is a bit of hard line to walk, but you could let her know that. Since you said you had a productive session in marriage counseling, it may be a good time to let her know that you love her and want to work on your marriage, and that you would be willing to improve any legitimate faults you have, but she has to cut all contact with other man, send a no contact letter, give you transparency, and whatever other things you need to reestablish trust and help you feel she is committing to you. Maybe wait a few days with no more contact with other man, see how she is acting, before you consider trying something like this. The trouble with this approach is that it may empower her to think that she can hold out until the day before the divorce is final before giving you a half-assed commitment to work on the marriage. You don't want that.


precisely. perhaps at the next MC session i will raise this topic. though i have a feeling that no progress will be made (if it's ever made) until after the divorce is final. it's perverse in its backwardness, but that's what it may take.



> If you go this route, tell her that you can't go on in limbo, you've got to know in the next five minutes whether this is what she wants. If she waffles, tell her you will proceed with the divorce and if the two of you want to get back together, then you can re-consider it after the divorce is final.


this is likely what will happen. frankly i'm ****ing done with her bull****. she doesn't get to call the shots any more.



> You sound like you ARE actually detached and ready to move on, which makes ACTING that way so much easier.


being angry & hateful towards her (without showing it) is very helpful in this regard. i owe her nothing, and she owes me everything. 


i've already opened a separate bank account for my paychecks, and i know it's hurting her since she can't maintain control over the finances (something she has always done). but like you said, it won't be truly taken seriously until either she is served with the papers or it's finalized.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Now that the legal part is in the hands of your lawyer, start making other plans.

Think about making a plan for your single life. Think about doing something that you have always wanted to do (a bucket list without having a terminal sickness). Make a plan so that you can be the best father you can be. Right now you are the one that has the strength to nourish your children the most. Make a plan for improving yourself in different areas.

These plans will help you concentrate more on the positive things in your life and keep you from getting too obsessed with your ex-wife.

You becoming better will serve at least three purposes. One, is that it will help you with the emotional and other trauma that your wife has caused. Two, it will keep you focused on the fact that your life can be good even though your wife betrayed you and her children. Three, you will begin to see that your life can be very improved and very good.


----------



## Chaparral

raging_pain said:


> So WS wrote OM an email yesterday, saying something along the lines of "i was wondering if you called on a restricted #" and detailing how living in the same house as me "sucks". WS then says "please call me". she then checked her secret email acct. throughout the night, with no reply from OM. no calls either.
> 
> i am having a hard time understanding how she can be so ****ing selfish.


Normal people are rational. Cheaters aren't normal or rational. If they were they would not cause the immeasurable pain they do. Thats why most people do not give them another chance to do that kind of damage.


----------



## Chaparral

Exercise, new clothes, new haircut, etc. BTW, "don't touch me" in a friendly voice with a smile is hard for the WWS to take.


----------



## the guy

chapparal said:


> Exercise, new clothes, new haircut, etc. BTW, "don't touch me" in a friendly voice with a smile is hard for the WWS to take.


" don't tough me"...now thats taking control back.


----------



## walkonmars

You're going to be fine.
I like chaps suggestion. Will add - stop calling her "babe, honey, etc" given name only. 

Next time she calls you "dear" just look at her w a slight frown and ask her not to do that again.


----------



## the guy

raging_pain said:


> So WS wrote OM an email yesterday, saying something along the lines of "i was wondering if you called on a restricted #" and detailing how living in the same house as me "sucks". WS then says "please call me". she then checked her secret email acct. throughout the night, with no reply from OM. no calls either.
> 
> i am having a hard time understanding how she can be so ****ing selfish.


Stick to the plan (file>expose>confront)

IMHO the plan to get OM out of the picture is working...thats #1 rule. She is going thru withdrawls. Stay on it, continue to make the affair as inconviennet and as uncomfortable to continue...especially from the OM side (remember your WW is way to much in the fog right now).

Now she is back peddleing so focus on exposure and infrom others that the evidence is a PA and you are still looking for support for the marriage. Expose the PA and show your hand (sort of), but timing is everything. Hell confront OM he hasn't responded so call him on it with out revealing your source.

This guy will see you have more on him then he cares to think, but it will get him to back peddle.

This tactic will have both them back peddling ( making the affair inconvienent and uncomfortable). In fact disinformation would be good at this point. Confront OM and imply the "PI" has enough to nuke this affair and you will not stand by with out a fight... you already lost everything you have a new mission and it is him. Again fighting this front with OM side, breaking up the affair with this controlling women and making OM see the prize is not worth the effort...I still believe in this mind set in your case. I think it has been proven by the lack of contact from OM.

Again a tactic that shows WW that her fantasy is just that and OM could give 2 sh1ts.


I understand you are losing interest in being with this women, but when this all started you wanted to R, so here I am with my experience. At best you can bail on your chick and the OM can bail on your chick...it could be a win win for you and a lose lose for her.

Stay dark with WW your front is with OM, once your WW fantasy is deflated then you can deal with the withdrawls and see if she still wants her family. Now that OM just wanted to get laid and when push comes to shuv the OM bailed on her.

Thats the objective in the battle for now....winning the war is still subjective but it is a plan for now.

She still hasn't been served and the full extent of exposure has not been achieved. Your plan has just started, yet here you are heading in a direction that hasn't scrathched the surface of making her face the nuts and bolts of what she has really done.

Granted she *may* still want a divorce when all is said and done, but you will get there, your way by making the plan and working the plan.

There may be a chance that this could be saved if she face the reality and starts to show the submission she needs to keep her marriage, you just havent gotten ther yet to see if she turns the corner after being served> exposed> confronted with your boundries.


----------



## the guy

Of course living in the house with you sucks, your no longer her doormat and she hates that.
Until she can come to term that you will no longer walk behind her , no longer walk in front of her, but walk next to her she will be pissed.

And that mind set is hard to look at when your a control freak and it *will* cost her her marriage/family if she holds onto that mind set.

But thats up to her to figure out, you can't to crap except making her choice to share you with another man unexceptable, uncomfortable and inconvienent.


----------



## raging_pain

ohoho.. so this morning, after being asked, I told WW about the reason I put for the divorce on the papers: "extra-marital affair". That did not sit well. She tells me that 'some day when the kids are old enough she doesn't want them to see that". I was thunderstruck. I told her that "maybe you should have considered that in your actions, instead of in the consequences to your actions". She then fell back on denying that anything physical happened. In fact, she elaborated a bit in that "we didn't have sex, we didn't have oral sex" (she's never mentioned the oral sex angle before). I told her I would consider changing the reason, but she's going to have to prove to me as to why I should. 

More concerned with her ****ing image than the damage she's doing to the people around her. Incredible.


----------



## the guy

When is she getting served/exposed?


----------



## Chaparral

* 'some day when the kids are old enough she doesn't want them to see that*

This will come up again. Tell her immediately that you will let your kids know exactly how their mother destroyed their family. And tell her they will need counseling and lots of it.


----------



## Chaparral

And BTW, why are you letting her get away with saying its not physical. Just tell her everyone knows and that OM has a big mouth and likes to brag. Hey, its just a white lie and its probably true anyway. Think Psy Opps.


----------



## the guy

chapparal said:


> And BTW, why are you letting her get away with saying its not physical. Just tell her everyone knows and that OM has a big mouth and likes to brag. Hey, its just a white lie and its probably true anyway. Think Psy Opps.


Thats a great idea in hiding your source when you expose the PA after she gets served.


----------



## raging_pain

the guy said:


> When is she getting served/exposed?


not sure. i have to make a revision to the paperwork, so sometime next week i imagine.


----------



## raging_pain

chapparal said:


> And BTW, why are you letting her get away with saying its not physical. Just tell her everyone knows and that OM has a big mouth and likes to brag. Hey, its just a white lie and its probably true anyway. Think Psy Opps.


i've already been playing that angle.. being coy when she asks what i have, never saying one way or another how far my knowledge extends.. i do like the "he's got a big mouth" angle though


----------



## raging_pain

so she's moved back in with her parents, which i find amusing (sadly). she has the kids with her for the next day; i can't believe how much this hurts.


----------



## happyman64

Channel that hurt.

Use it to get the paperwork done and her served.

She needs to know:

1. That you are sreious about Divorcing her.
2. That her cheating is unacceptable.
3. THat it is her actions that are breaking up your family.
4. That you cannot control her. 
4. That her horrible decisions have horrible consequences.

Stay focused. Work on yourself. Comfort your kids. An take care of yourself.

HM64


----------



## sandc

happyman64 said:


> Channel that hurt.
> 
> Use it to get the paperwork done and her served.
> 
> She needs to know:
> 
> 1. That you are sreious about Divorcing her.
> 2. That her cheating is unacceptable.
> 3. THat it is her actions that are breaking up your family.
> 4. That you cannot control her.
> 4. That her horrible decisions have horrible consequences.
> 
> Stay focused. Work on yourself. Comfort your kids. An take care of yourself.
> 
> HM64


I would just change #2.

2. That her cheating is vile and reprehensible. 

Hopefully she knows what that means. Have a dictionary ready just in case.


----------



## OldWolf57

ragin, I want you to get R out of your mind right now !!!!
When a person say they could kill you, take it serious.
1. She has not said anything about R/ing with you. Just that she want to do it without lawyers.
2. She actually mentioned to MC she wants you dead.
3. Only you are thinking of a possible R. She wants out.
4. You want the kids to have a whole family BUT, what good does it do to have them lose a parent by violence from the other. It sound like your have a good support system with her and your families, so D/ing her will still keep you and the kids close.

Basically what I'm saying is you should NOT ever feel safe sleeping with this woman.


----------



## Chaparral

When it comes to custody, be sure and tell your attorney she also mentioned killing you in front of the MC. Adultery, terroristic threatening, abandonment etc. gives you a good case.

From now on just go silent with her. Only give short answer about the kids and possibly finances. Show her no emotion. If she does want to talk let her know you have all the proof you need of a physical affair and she can just stop lying about it. Though you may want to ask your attorney about how you got the info and whether or not it was legal. But, the point is, the only one that needs proof is you.

Let her see how life is without her family.

Ask your attorney about a psychiatric evaluation for her because of the threat.


----------



## kenmoore14217

"so she's moved back in with her parents, which i find amusing (sadly). she has the kids with her for the next day; i can't believe how much this hurts."

Being a leader does come with pain for sure. But through the pain strength is gained.


----------



## raging_pain

OldWolf57 said:


> ragin, I want you to get R out of your mind right now !!!!
> When a person say they could kill you, take it serious.
> 1. She has not said anything about R/ing with you. Just that she want to do it without lawyers.
> 2. She actually mentioned to MC she wants you dead.
> 3. Only you are thinking of a possible R. She wants out.
> 4. You want the kids to have a whole family BUT, what good does it do to have them lose a parent by violence from the other. It sound like your have a good support system with her and your families, so D/ing her will still keep you and the kids close.
> 
> Basically what I'm saying is you should NOT ever feel safe sleeping with this woman.


The thing is, she keeps talking about how she wants to be "friends" after the divorce, and also that she says she is not ruling out a possible reconciliation, given enough time to see that we can "both survive and function on our own". 

she told me that if I follow through with naming the affair as the reason on the divorce papers that this "friendship" that we're trying to cultivate would be impossible.


she's really confusing the **** out of me, but i suppose that's her goal. it makes me wonder if she's only saying it because it's the only measure of control she has over me at this point. 




and i did something stupid yesterday afternoon too... she was leaving w/ the kids to spend the night at her parent's house. I had loaded the kids in the car, and went back in the house where she was still gathering her things. She said to me "i'll come back tomorrow and start packing my stuff, or at least try to move it into a corner or something". i JOKINGLY said that "maybe i'll just throw it out on the curb, it'd be real easy then" with a smile on my face. it was completely in jest, but it was a stupid joke to make. she says something like "you're going to make me cry", at which point i _went up to her and grabbed her gently by the face_, and stared at her while i said "i'm sorry, i'm really not trying to hurt you, it was an honest joke". i held her for five seconds, she neither shied away or nuzzled into my hands.... man i wish i hadn't done that.


----------



## sandc

I've mostly lurked on this thread but THIS post pissed me off. Or should I say the manipulation in it.



raging_pain said:


> The thing is, she keeps talking about how she wants to be "friends" after the divorce, and also that she says she is not ruling out a possible reconciliation, given enough time to see that we can "both survive and function on our own".


TRANSLATION: "Let's separate a while so I can bang whomever I please. Then when I'm bored and possibly infected with an STD, I'd like to take up where we left of. Please wait for me."



raging_pain said:


> she told me that if I follow through with naming the affair as the reason on the divorce papers that this "friendship" that we're trying to cultivate would be impossible.


Irrelevant. She's already made it impossible.




raging_pain said:


> she's really confusing the **** out of me, but i suppose that's her goal. it makes me wonder if she's only saying it because it's the only measure of control she has over me at this point.


BINGO. You got it bud.






raging_pain said:


> and i did something stupid yesterday afternoon too...


I agree it was kind of dumb but unlike her, you have a heart so I can't really fault you. At this point I'd advise you to pack her stuff in garbage bags and have it waiting on the curb. This time let her cry and let her feel the hurt.


----------



## Disenchanted

raging_pain said:


> The thing is, she keeps talking about how she wants to be "friends" after the divorce, and also that she says she is not ruling out a possible reconciliation, given enough time to see that we can "both survive and function on our own".


This quote is lifted right from my own story.

It's going to change, _drastically_, very soon.

I didn't believe others when they'd tell this to me, but they were absolutely 100% correct. 

She does not want to be friends.


----------



## raging_pain

Disenchanted said:


> This quote is lifted right from my own story.
> 
> It's going to change, _drastically_, very soon.
> 
> I didn't believe others when they'd tell this to me, but they were absolutely 100% correct.
> 
> She does not want to be friends.


will you elaborate on this? what happened? how was she deceiving you, and to what end?


----------



## Disenchanted

raging_pain said:


> will you elaborate on this? what happened? how was she deceiving you, and to what end?


Well it's a long story, but essentially her tune was "we're partners for life, co-parents, we'll do this thing together, it will be amicable", this during our (well _my_) efforts to R, and not knowing where it would lead etc.

Then as soon as she had a lawyer of her own she went straight for the throat and has not stopped trying to financially destroy me and take from me everything I have as well as everything I will have. 

What she wants more than anything now is not just more than her share of what we have, she wants a permanent piece of my income potential. Pure greed.


----------



## HappyHubby

raging_pain said:


> and i did something stupid yesterday afternoon too... she was leaving w/ the kids to spend the night at her parent's house. I had loaded the kids in the car, and went back in the house where she was still gathering her things. She said to me "i'll come back tomorrow and start packing my stuff, or at least try to move it into a corner or something". i JOKINGLY said that "maybe i'll just throw it out on the curb, it'd be real easy then" with a smile on my face. it was completely in jest, but it was a stupid joke to make. she says something like "you're going to make me cry", at which point i _went up to her and grabbed her gently by the face_, and stared at her while i said "i'm sorry, i'm really not trying to hurt you, it was an honest joke". i held her for five seconds, she neither shied away or nuzzled into my hands.... man i wish i hadn't done that.


Well at least you realize it was foolish. Don't ever do it again so long as you two are in this process. What you just provided her was comfort and emotional support, the one thing that she actually values from you while in the fog. She's getting the thrill and excitement of a new relationship from OM but from you there is something deeper. You might then be tempted to think well if I show her that deep connection and love we have she will snap out of it. After what you've read here already I'm sure you know this is not true. Instead, and you must always remember, if she can get that small emotional link with you and know that she has you in her back pocket while banging OM, she will feel LESS compelled to come back to you. She will feel safe in her actions because she wont be feeling the loss of everything you provide (kindness, support, stability, emotional safety, etc.).

Get her respect back by respecting yourself. Her crying and feeling sorry for herself does not make her a nice person. It's just manipulation. "You're gonna make me cry" Oh brother, she deserves that and so much more. Stop letting her manipulate you. Stay cold, dark and unwavering.

Even if you don't want her back... you DO want her to come crawling back so you can reject her right? ... I mean honestly who wouldn't. 180 and all the advice here is the only way to get that power back.


----------



## Shaggy

I think you need to throw away the idea that you will be friends post D.

You can agree to talk to her civilly about the children, but you will not be her friend.

Friends trust one another. You wouldn't be friends with someone who stole money from you. You would not be friends with someone who lies to your face.

You would not be friends with someone who hurt your children.

She as done all of the above. Including stealing money by having an affair and now redirecting money to pay for her having a residence after the D.

Tell her out right, I have no intention of being your friend. You haven't been my friend. I won't be your friend after the D.


----------



## theroad

raging_pain said:


> The thing is, she keeps talking about how she wants to be "friends" after the divorce, and also that she says she is not ruling out a possible reconciliation, given enough time to see that we can "both survive and function on our own".
> 
> she told me that if I follow through with naming the affair as the reason on the divorce papers that this "friendship" that we're trying to cultivate would be impossible.



This is a WW that is trying to play you so you back down and have a weaker case when it comes time to divorce.

In addition WW is still looking to protect the OM.


----------



## C-man

I always wonder about the "let's be friends" tactic. My STBXW mentioned this hope... once. I simply said that I don't want to be friends with somebody who deliberately and repeatedly lied to me after cheating.

IF there is a chance to reconcile, then by all means - be friends and see if it develops. But IF the offer of friendship is just to make it easier for the DS to feel OK about the whole situation, with no effort on their part, then forget it.

My STBXW has never apologized or taken ownership of the damage she has done to me and to our family. I will pretend to be "friends" with my STBXW for the benefit of my children. Other than that, I don't want her to be a part of my life in any way.


----------



## Will_Kane

raging_pain said:


> The thing is, she keeps talking about how she wants to be "friends" after the divorce, and also that she says she is not ruling out a possible reconciliation, given enough time to see that we can "both survive and function on our own".
> 
> *Just words. Easy to say. Doesn't cost her anything in terms of time or effort. Might as well keep my Plan B open in case I need it.*
> 
> she told me that if I follow through with naming the affair as the reason on the divorce papers that this "friendship" that we're trying to cultivate would be impossible.
> 
> *Just words. Easy to say. Doesn't cost her anything in terms of time or effort. She knows you still pine for her, might as well use it to her advantage.*
> 
> she's really confusing the **** out of me, but i suppose that's her goal. it makes me wonder if she's only saying it because it's the only measure of control she has over me at this point.
> 
> *Her definition of "friendship" with you means that, after the divorce, you still get to do all that unpleasant stuff for her and still help her out as if you're still married. While she does nothing for you*
> 
> and i did something stupid yesterday afternoon too... she was leaving w/ the kids to spend the night at her parent's house. I had loaded the kids in the car, and went back in the house where she was still gathering her things. She said to me "i'll come back tomorrow and start packing my stuff, or at least try to move it into a corner or something". i JOKINGLY said that "maybe i'll just throw it out on the curb, it'd be real easy then" with a smile on my face. it was completely in jest, but it was a stupid joke to make. she says something like "you're going to make me cry", at which point *i _went up to her and grabbed her gently by the face_, and stared at her while i said "i'm sorry, i'm really not trying to hurt you*, it was an honest joke". i held her for five seconds, she neither shied away or nuzzled into my hands.... man i wish i hadn't done that.


As she drove around the bend, fist-pumping, YES!!!, still have him eating out of my hand. I cheat on him, then lie to him about, heck I'm still lying to him about it, and he's SORRY that he said something that hurt my feelings.

You have damning evidence of her physical affair, yet she adamantly claims it was never physical.

Why are you even discussing friendship after marriage with her. Do you like when your friends lie to you?

There is a big difference between being "pleasant" and being "friends." I think you should be shooting for being "pleasant" with her as you deal with your parenting responsibilities, not "friends."


----------



## raging_pain

Will_Kane said:


> As she drove around the bend, fist-pumping, YES!!!, still have him eating out of my hand. I cheat on him, then lie to him about, heck I'm still lying to him about it, and he's SORRY that he said something that hurt my feelings.
> 
> You have damning evidence of her physical affair, yet she adamantly claims it was never physical.
> 
> Why are you even discussing friendship after marriage with her. Do you like when your friends lie to you?
> 
> There is a big difference between being "pleasant" and being "friends." I think you should be shooting for being "pleasant" with her as you deal with your parenting responsibilities, not "friends."


****k..m you're right.. i've let my emotions get the better of me.m now i sit here, drunk as ****, wondering why i do the things ido... and i have no answer. because that's how much i've failed in all this. this is so painful, thank god i've got my kdis to keep me bound to this world.


----------



## warlock07

> The thing is, she keeps talking about how she wants to be "friends" after the divorce, and also that she says she is not ruling out a possible reconciliation, given enough time to see that we can "both survive and function on our own".
> 
> she told me that if I follow through with naming the affair as the reason on the divorce papers that this "friendship" that we're trying to cultivate would be impossible.


Why do you suppose I would want you back after this ?


----------



## raging_pain

Shaggy said:


> I think you need to throw away the idea that you will be friends post D.
> 
> You can agree to talk to her civilly about the children, but you will not be her friend.
> 
> Friends trust one another. You wouldn't be friends with someone who stole money from you. You would not be friends with someone who lies to your face.
> 
> You would not be friends with someone who hurt your children.
> 
> She as done all of the above. Including stealing money by having an affair and now redirecting money to pay for her having a residence after the D.
> 
> Tell her out right, I have no intention of being your friend. You haven't been my friend. I won't be your friend after the D.


i'm printing this out and keeping it on me at all times, this is the truth of it no matter how badly i don't want it to be


----------



## HappyHubby

Good morning. Be careful with the drink. It can lead to more depression the next day.

I would say that the next opportunity you get to speak with her you have a little heart to heart as if your bringing your guard completely down. She will think it will be a whine-and-pine fest until you surprise her with a stoic and measured out performance as you tell her plainly and simply that you realize she is no friend to you. You state simply that she has treated you terribly and you will not allow yourself to be treated as such. Tell her you just wanted her to know that things are going to be different from now on. You are now going to look out for your own best interests because she is clearly doing the same for herself and you have come to accept that now. Tell her the truth is more important than her feelings and you will be keeping the divorce papers as they are. Its a matter of principle. Do not apologize or look like you feel bad. 
Thats it. End it with 'I just thought it was the right thing to do to let you know where I stand'. 

When she puts on the waterworks and says how awful she feels and how you are making her sad, DO NOT SHOW ANY EMOTION, DO NOT COMFORT HER ANNND DO NOT GET ANGRY OR ATTACK HER. Just say something like 'I'm taking care of myself from now on. Good luck' then get the heck out of dodge and go dark and cold. Your gonads will feel securely in place after this. Never let her have them back mkay?


----------



## HappyHubby

Have this conversation on a full stomach and a full night sleep so that you have maximum emotional control.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Ease up on the drinking. You need to keep a clear head and operate from a position of strength. Letting her see you do this to yourself will give her more power over you. 

Take yourself to the gym, put the beer down. You'll feel much better the next day.


----------



## raging_pain

HappyHubby said:


> Good morning. Be careful with the drink. It can lead to more depression the next day.
> 
> I would say that the next opportunity you get to speak with her you have a little heart to heart as if your bringing your guard completely down. She will think it will be a whine-and-pine fest until you surprise her with a stoic and measured out performance as you tell her plainly and simply that you realize she is no friend to you. You state simply that she has treated you terribly and you will not allow yourself to be treated as such. Tell her you just wanted her to know that things are going to be different from now on. You are now going to look out for your own best interests because she is clearly doing the same for herself and you have come to accept that now. Tell her the truth is more important than her feelings and you will be keeping the divorce papers as they are. Its a matter of principle. Do not apologize or look like you feel bad.
> Thats it. End it with 'I just thought it was the right thing to do to let you know where I stand'.
> 
> When she puts on the waterworks and says how awful she feels and how you are making her sad, DO NOT SHOW ANY EMOTION, DO NOT COMFORT HER ANNND DO NOT GET ANGRY OR ATTACK HER. Just say something like 'I'm taking care of myself from now on. Good luck' then get the heck out of dodge and go dark and cold. Your gonads will feel securely in place after this. Never let her have them back mkay?


yeah i know i gave up my balls momentarily, it is incredibly hard to keep composure around her when i still feel so deeply for her.. i will do this though. it needs to be done. hell, i was already leaning towards keeping the reason as is. i just really don't want to hurt her.


----------



## raging_pain

TCSRedhead said:


> Ease up on the drinking. You need to keep a clear head and operate from a position of strength. Letting her see you do this to yourself will give her more power over you.
> 
> Take yourself to the gym, put the beer down. You'll feel much better the next day.


she did not witness it. i was alone at my house, she had the kids at her parents' place. i was extremely lonely, even the dog went with her. so what the hell, get drunk.

i do know my limits though (i know that's hard to believe ) and i already do work out at a gym regularly. i just like to cut loose when i'm alone and occasionally get wrecked.


----------



## TCSRedhead

raging_pain said:


> she did not witness it. i was alone at my house, she had the kids at her parents' place. i was extremely lonely, even the dog went with her. so what the hell, get drunk.
> 
> i do know my limits though (i know that's hard to believe ) and i already do work out at a gym regularly. i just like to cut loose when i'm alone and occasionally get wrecked.


She may not witness it directly but we as women are observant - normally if you've had one of 'those' nights it comes through your pores the following day. Especially after the gesture of touching her and feeling sad about what you had said. 

Plus, let her notice a new and improved you from all the extra time you spend working out the pain and hurt. :smthumbup:

Not to mention, it will help boost your ego to get a few extra looks from women noticing the improvements. 

My advice basically is to start focusing less on 'her' and the pain and more on 'you' and healing.


----------



## raging_pain

ok, someone explain this one to me:

i have the kids for yesterday & today. WW and I have to switch vehicles before I pick the kids up because hers has the child seats in it (this will soon be rectified). 

i tell her that i need her to show up at my work at a certain time because i have to pick up dinner before I get the kids. she tells me she has _cooked us dinner, and it's in the oven at home_. 

i ask her why she did that, she says it's because she "wanted to eat something before she left for work". she didn't touch the meal she prepared. 

WTF


----------



## remorseful strayer

livinfree said:


> I asked to have the OM named and my paralegal said I couldn't. I may find a way with some kind of clause.


Here is a possible solution. 

In some states a BS can sue the affair partner for "alienation of affection" or something similar 

Even in states where you can't legally sue for that, you can still find an attorney who will file the suit, if you tell him you know you can't win, but just want his name on the public record in a civil suit. 

The civil suit will mention that he his being sued due to cheating with your wife.

This won't show up in divorce papers, but it will show up in public records if a background check is done.


----------



## N_chanted

raging_pain said:


> ok, someone explain this one to me:
> 
> i have the kids for yesterday & today. WW and I have to switch vehicles before I pick the kids up because hers has the child seats in it (this will soon be rectified).
> 
> i tell her that i need her to show up at my work at a certain time because i have to pick up dinner before I get the kids. she tells me she has _cooked us dinner, and it's in the oven at home_.
> 
> i ask her why she did that, she says it's because she "wanted to eat something before she left for work". she didn't touch the meal she prepared.
> 
> WTF



the way to a man's heart is through his stomach. she knows you filed for the D, my guess is she is trying to get on your good side.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Also, keeping you 'happy' and showing she wants to be a friend is to try to get what she really wants which is to have her cake and eat it too. I'm sorry, it just sucks to be on the receiving end. She really has no clue how badly she's hurting you and the family.


----------



## Chaparral

remorseful strayer said:


> Here is a possible solution.
> 
> In some states a BS can sue the affair partner for "alienation of affection" or something similar
> 
> Even in states where you can't legally sue for that, you can still find an attorney who will file the suit, if you tell him you know you can't win, but just want his name on the public record in a civil suit.
> 
> The civil suit will mention that he his being sued due to cheating with your wife.
> 
> This won't show up in divorce papers, but it will show up in public records if a background check is done.


In all states, I think, you can sue the ap for intentional infliction of emotional distress. For whatever reasons, most attorneys don't want to fool with it.


----------



## 3putt

chapparal said:


> In all states, I think, you can sue the ap for intentional infliction of emotional distress. For whatever reasons, most attorneys don't want to fool with it.


Unless you're talking about something I'm completely unaware of, AOA lawsuits are (unfortunately) only allowed in these states:

Hawaii, Illinois, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Dakota, and Utah.


----------



## Chaparral

3putt said:


> Unless you're talking about something I'm completely unaware of, AOA lawsuits are (unfortunately) only allowed in these states:
> 
> Hawaii, Illinois, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Dakota, and Utah.


Google


----------



## 3putt

chapparal said:


> Google


Hmmm, I didn't even know about intentional infliction as an option. Interesting.

Thanks


----------



## raging_pain

ok. so a lot has happened since i last posted. i took the kids on a 8 hour road trip to see my family for xmas. WS stayed at the family house alone. 

WS also supposedly confronted OM at his house while I was gone for the holidays, after he went dark on her when the divorce & exposure of affair became public knowledge. according to WS, OM feels "terrible, and like it's all his fault". this is a man that used to be my friend, and lied to my face about what was happening. from what i can tell they have not spoken after she called him a coward and a liar in her final message. 

now, tonight, WS comes over to 'pick up some stuff'. we get baked together, and i ask this: "what are you doing for new years?". nothing more, nothing less. she then launches into a "yeah i'll hang out for a while, do some shots to the new year, then go sleep (where i've been staying) later". she repeats this a few times as we discuss the next few days.


so now i'm like WHAT THE FUUUUUUUK. previously, at our most recent group counseling session, i said i felt like i was being used as "plan b" since **** with her boyfriend isn't working out. she denied it, claiming that "there is no plan b, there's not even plan a".

she is continuing to look for housing for her self, but her credit sucks and she doesn't make enough to have many options. her parents are going to help her, but this places her in a bind that she is actively trying to avoid (WS and her mother are having issues over this entire escapade).


new years is a few days away. FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## Shaggy

So OM dumped her, she went to get him to fight for her , and he dumped her. 

So now she's dateless until she can find a replacement. You might get some sex from her while she's shopping.


----------



## raging_pain

Shaggy said:


> So OM dumped her, she went to get him to fight for her , and he dumped her.
> 
> So now she's dateless until she can find a replacement. You might get some sex from her while she's shopping.


yeah mate i'm sort of worried about that scenario. her specific mention of doing shots, ie getting a bit drunk if not more than a bit _AROUND ME_ is a total reversal.


----------



## raging_pain

and now she calls and invites me over to where she's living to watch the football game today... 

:scratchhead:


----------



## happyman64

Congratulations

Your wife is now trying to date you.

My suggestion, find a new GF.

Or enjoy the game.

The choice is always yours.

HM64


----------



## bfree

raging_pain said:


> and now she calls and invites me over to where she's living to watch the football game today...
> 
> :scratchhead:


You do realize that she only wants you now because you are moving on and don't want her. If you reengage with her and she gets you back she will be looking to replace you as soon as she can. Why would you put yourself through that?


----------



## walkonmars

raging_pain said:


> and now she calls and invites me over to where she's living to watch the football game today...
> 
> :scratchhead:



Easy, four words. 

"Thanks, but no thanks"

Why hang around like a puppy wagging it's tail? She already told you you have no place in her life - not really. Right now she's hurting because her boyfriend left her. She's looking for comfort. And guess what? Your the comforter. Furgitaboutit!


----------



## bfree

walkonmars said:


> Easy, four words.
> 
> "Thanks, but no thanks"
> 
> Why hang around like a puppy wagging it's tail? She already told you you have no place in her life - not really. Right now she's hurting because her boyfriend left her. She's looking for comfort. And guess what? Your the comforter. Furgitaboutit!


Yup, if she needs an emotional tampon tell her to call one of her toxic friends. They all have them.


----------



## Chaparral

Looks like exposure has worked to break up another affair. Hope OM gets hit by a bus though. Heard anything about OM from your friends?


----------



## raging_pain

happyman64 said:


> Congratulations
> 
> Your wife is now trying to date you.
> 
> My suggestion, find a new GF.
> 
> Or enjoy the game.
> 
> The choice is always yours.
> 
> HM64


this is what i'm having trouble deciding. i'm no slouch, i get hit on regularly. however i am willing to at least try to salvage the marriage, for both her & my sakes as well as the kids'. don't know what to doooooooooooooo


the problem is, is that i get to see my kids if i go hang out with her. that's hard to turn down/\.


----------



## raging_pain

bfree said:


> You do realize that she only wants you now because you are moving on and don't want her. If you reengage with her and she gets you back she will be looking to replace you as soon as she can. Why would you put yourself through that?


yeah that's the last thing i want.. hell, the other night when we were talking i asked her if she was 'friendzoning' me, she said no and that she also "feels it too". whatever the fu(k that means.

however i don't want to pass up the opportunity to see the kids, so i'll likely go.

and if we were to get back together, who's to say that we couldn't build a successful relationship? following the steps on this board would be a good start to rebuilding the trust that she has broken.


----------



## walkonmars

Well then, go. But only for the kids. Don't be mean with her but don't engage in anything that doesn't involve the kids, snacks, or TV reception. 

Anything else: "not right now okay - let's enjoy the game"


----------



## theroad

raging_pain said:


> this is what i'm having trouble deciding. i'm no slouch, i get hit on regularly. however i am willing to at least try to salvage the marriage, for both her & my sakes as well as the kids'. don't know what to doooooooooooooo
> 
> 
> the problem is, is that i get to see my kids if i go hang out with her. that's hard to turn down/\.


I support you wanting to recover your marriage.

I do not support you attempting to recover without getting the book Surviving An Affair br Dr Harley.


----------



## raging_pain

walkonmars said:


> Well then, go. But only for the kids. Don't be mean with her but don't engage in anything that doesn't involve the kids, snacks, or TV reception.
> 
> Anything else: "not right now okay - let's enjoy the game"


this never works for me. for instance, over at her place watching the football game, she was sitting in a different room (her parents were also over). i would do something like walk through the room she & the kids were in, and give the kids some kisses. as i'd be walking out of the room not really paying her any mind, she would drop a "how are you?" to which i have no choice but to automatically ask her how she is in return and engage her in conversation.

this is the type of sh1t that keeps happening. she strings me along, and it feels like she can't make up her mind as to what she wants. meanwhile i'm supposed to sit and wait for her to decide.


----------



## warlock07

raging_pain said:


> So WS wrote OM an email yesterday, saying something along the lines of "i was wondering if you called on a restricted #" and detailing how living in the same house as me "sucks". WS then says "please call me". she then checked her secret email acct. throughout the night, with no reply from OM. no calls either.
> 
> i am having a hard time understanding how she can be so ****ing selfish.


Remember this post


----------



## walkonmars

Read the Warlock's Post above again. 

There's an art of communicating without words. 
A slight nod of the head. 
A shoulder shrug. 
A raised eyebrow. 
A weak smile, scowl, 

Those say as much, and sometimes more, than words. And their meaning is usually much more clear than words.


----------



## raging_pain

ok..... so today was absolutely terrible. last night i wrecked my car & got a DUI (no one was hurt, my first DUI, and I am ashamed of my behavior). i get home today after work and talk with WW, she lays into me about how she "would be leaving me now if she hadn't already told me she wants a divorce". it was brutal, she knows just how to hurt me.. it was just like the first day when she told me she wanted a divorce. i'm shaking and just got done crying while my kids were eating dinner, and WW is at the store. when she comes back we're going to put the kids to bed and then _still_ ring in the new year (no alcohol though, since last night occurred,,, ice cream instead)


i can't take much more of this ****!


----------



## walkonmars

Lay off the friggen booze. FOR EVER. 

You are not presenting yourself as desirable in any way shape or form. Stiffen that spine. 

She's leaving. Let. Her. Go.

She's just shredding your already broken spirit. 

You've been told. Get the book Surviving An Affair br Dr Harley. Read it. Live it.


----------



## JMGrey

raging_pain said:


> ok..... so today was absolutely terrible. last night i wrecked my car & got a DUI (no one was hurt, my first DUI, and I am ashamed of my behavior). i get home today after work and talk with WW, she lays into me about how she "would be leaving me now if she hadn't already told me she wants a divorce". it was brutal, she knows just how to hurt me.. it was just like the first day when she told me she wanted a divorce. i'm shaking and just got done crying while my kids were eating dinner, and WW is at the store. when she comes back we're going to put the kids to bed and then _still_ ring in the new year (no alcohol though, since last night occurred,,, ice cream instead)
> 
> 
> i can't take much more of this ****!


I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this but you need to own at least part of it, in that you keep putting yourself in the position to allow her to tear you down. And she'll take it because her own self-image is still reeling from being called out as a cheater. Your wife has the classic self-indulgent spirit of a WS. More than anything, she desires to return to the status quo, so that she can feel good about herself again. Every foible that you commit allows her to shift the spotlight to you. 'Yes, I cheated on my husband, but you don't see _me_ driving drunk!' Every communication that she has with you is predicated on this goal. When she engages you, and you respond, you are lessening the impact of your discovery of her infidelity. That's why niceness or social civility is useless and counterproductive in the short and medium term of the reconciliation/180/run-up to divorce. Such behavior is emotionally what hysterical bonding is physically. It tells her that the behavioral dynamic is returning to what she is most comfortable with.


----------



## HappyHubby

Dont let her berate you or talk down to you like she's your mother ever again. You don't have to justify anything to her anymore. It doesn't matter how wrong you were for ur DUI, she has no right to say anything to you anymore about anything. You don't take cra-p from a cheating wh0-re. Period. You tell her this and never apologize to her for anything!


----------



## raging_pain

HappyHubby said:


> Dont let her berate you or talk down to you like she's your mother ever again. You don't have to justify anything to her anymore. It doesn't matter how wrong you were for ur DUI, she has no right to say anything to you anymore about anything. You don't take cra-p from a cheating wh0-re. Period. You tell her this and never apologize to her for anything!


it's hard to realize it's happening when it happens w/ her. i guess that just speaks to how farked up our relationship was. and despite my intentions, it is still extremely difficult to cut off contact.. i'm so desperate for affection i find my resolve wavering.

at least on new years i told her she had to leave when she wouldn't stop berating me. the ice creams she bought us are still sitting in the freezer, and i know that's pissing her off because she loves ice cream


----------



## sandc

raging_pain said:


> it's hard to realize it's happening when it happens w/ her. i guess that just speaks to how farked up our relationship was. and despite my intentions, it is still extremely difficult to cut off contact.. i'm so desperate for affection i find my resolve wavering.
> 
> at least on new years i told her she had to leave when she wouldn't stop berating me. the ice creams she bought us are still sitting in the freezer, and i know that's pissing her off because she loves ice cream


Priceless. She can't fnck your friend any more so she needs a new hobby. Apparently it's mindfncking you.

You really want to R with her? Really?


----------



## raging_pain

sandc said:


> Priceless. She can't fnck your friend any more so she needs a new hobby. Apparently it's mindfncking you.
> 
> You really want to R with her? Really?


i don't know any more.. i know there's a good person inside her somewhere, and if she was able to be that person again then yes i would want to R. i can't tell what's real any more though. it's like she's a fracking pod person. 

i went and finalized the divorce petition today, maybe having her actually served with the papers will allow me to regain some ground. it just hurts so fracking much!!


----------



## walkonmars

Sorry raging. Know you're hurting. 

I want you to know that you unintentionally made my day with this line: 



> at least on new years i told her she had to leave when she wouldn't stop berating me. the ice creams she bought us are still sitting in the freezer, and* i know that's pissing her off because she loves ice cream*


----------



## sandc

raging_pain said:


> i don't know any more.. i know there's a good person inside her somewhere, and if she was able to be that person again then yes i would want to R. i can't tell what's real any more though. it's like she's a fracking pod person.
> 
> i went and finalized the divorce petition today, maybe having her actually served with the papers will allow me to regain some ground. it just hurts so fracking much!!


Either that good person will escape once she gets served and she'll REALLY try to save the marriage or she'll act really hurt and angry.

I think you may have to come to grips with the fact that maybe she never really was who you thought she was. The point is that if she does anything but beg and cry (I mean snot bubbling crying) then she isn't really worthy of reconciling with.


----------



## raging_pain

walkonmars said:


> Sorry raging. Know you're hurting.
> 
> I want you to know that you unintentionally made my day with this line:


 i'm glad someone got something good from this sh1tty situation


----------



## raging_pain

so tonight i basically put up a wall between us. i refused to discuss anything that didn't relate to the kids. she was pissed, to say the least. she kept asking me about random ****, which i refused to answer. she told me that i was being short and mean, and asked me why. 

i told her it was because she had the affair. she then said that "she told me she was sorry" and that she's "sorry for the way she handled it" and that "she would have divorced me anyways". she then compared my DUI to her affair, trying to say that because I did what I did that it wiped out her crime. I had none of that, and told her that nothing will wipe out what she did. i then told her i didn't want to talk to her, and told her she had to get out.

we went back and forth a bit, her like "you can't kick me out, my name is still on the deed" and me like "not for long it's not".

she told me that i've only proved her right over and over since she told me initially

we spent the weekend together with the kids, some of her siblings, & her parents. she then tells me tonight that she "thought this was the new reality taking shape" with me being hunky-dory about everything and not fighting at all.

she told me that i was trying to bring up old **** (her affair) so that i had something to be angry about relating to the divorce, as opposed to acknowledging my own faults. i responded that "if that's what you think, then you're even more pathetic than i thought".

she then tried to ask me various questions regarding upcoming events that did not involve the kids or anything logistical, to which i would not respond except with "that's none of your business" and "i don't want to talk to you regarding anything that doesn't involve the kids". 

she finally left. she was visibly upset. i hate this game.


----------



## sandc

You may hate the game, bud, but you hit it out of the park. Good job.


----------



## Acabado

"I'm sorry you feel this way".
"I'm not OK with that".

She's a ghost, look through her, the wall behind.


----------



## raging_pain

It's been a while, so here's an update: Basically one night, over the phone, I was farking wasted and told her exactly what I thought of her. The phrase "scandalous cheating wh0re" was used many times. 

I've felt infinitely better since then. I am taking a job in a town about two hours away. WS has moved out of the house for now. I hooked up with an ex-girlfriend and farked the daylights out of her. I feel like a new man.

WW tells me that she had envisioned "three years and then we could get back together". I laughed in her face and told her I plan to be long gone in three years. I asked her why she thinks there's a possibility, she replies that "she wasn't willing to throw away everything we have considering our history". I'm seriously beginning to wonder if she is borderline schizo.

All of a sudden I have potential career options that exceed anything I would have had were I to remain tethered to my now ex-wife. Reconciliation is still an option, but I could give less than two farks about it.

Listen up, betrayed men! This is not the end of the world when this type of shiite happens. You can recover and get a great boost in your life if you just seize the chance. Don't hesitate, don't dwell, just DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.


----------



## StillLife

Thanks for the inspiration raging. I just browsed through your journey here and needed to hear that things can look up. I'm a month out from finding out about wife's ongoing, 2nd affair...and see some creepy parallels between the games she's been playing with my mind and how your wife tried to work you.

Keep it up!


----------



## helolover

raging pain, maybe you should change your avatar name to "raging indifference" 

Enjoy farking your ex gf. Kudos


----------



## raging_pain

StillLife said:


> Thanks for the inspiration raging. I just browsed through your journey here and needed to hear that things can look up. I'm a month out from finding out about wife's ongoing, 2nd affair...and see some creepy parallels between the games she's been playing with my mind and how your wife tried to work you.
> 
> Keep it up!


yeah man, that's exactly how i felt when i found this forum.. the parallels are farking ridiculous, which only lends truth to the fact that THEY ARE IN THE WRONG, NOT US.


----------



## calvin

Good stuff rage,I've follwed your story.
Its nice to see the good guy win.
My wife never went PA but it was complicated.
I begged and talked about memories.
Only when I was letting her go did she start bringing up our "history",she did get it,seems like one of the few who do.
Good for you dude!
Some good inspiration for a lot of others here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

raging_pain said:


> The phrase "scandalous cheating wh0re" was used many times.
> 
> I've felt infinitely better since then. I am taking a job in a town about two hours away. WS has moved out of the house for now. I hooked up with an ex-girlfriend and farked the daylights out of her. I feel like a new man.
> 
> Listen up, betrayed men! This is not the end of the world when this type of shiite happens. You can recover and get a great boost in your life if you just seize the chance. Don't hesitate, don't dwell, just DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.


RAGING YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!
Bet the sex was hotter than anything since year 1 of the WS!

This post should be stickied!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## raging_pain

weightlifter said:


> RAGING YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!
> Bet the sex was hotter than anything since year 1 of the WS!
> 
> This post should be stickied!!!!!!!!!!


thanks man. i really do feel like a new man. funny thing, STBXW can see it too.. i still go to group therapy with her, and she was fighting back tears when i was detailing how much better i'm doing and how much fun i'm having without her. she's effin crazy, and I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT ANY MORE!!!!


----------



## LostAndContent

Any updates pain?


----------



## raging_pain

eh, not really. i quit my job to facilitate my rapid move out of town. 

dated two more women, meh. i'm discovering that at my age most women want to find someone to settle down with, i'm only 33 ffs... 

my stbxw and i don't really talk at all, except for information regarding the children. really though, we get along better... i've been working on letting go of my anger towards her & what she did. it seems to be working. the thought of getting out of this town is more reassuring than anything else, so i find that i can communicate with her better.

none of that really matters though, as i could truly give perhaps ~1 sh1t about her. i do still care for her and love her. she has told me that she still loves me too. what to make of that, i'm not sure... but i don't really fu(king care. i am gone. i'm going to do the things that i should have done ten years ago, instead of working whatever job i came across while following & supporting her.


so that's about it. i am in a holding pattern until i find a job in an area that is ~3 hours away from my sons. i've only started applying over the last 1.5 weeks, so i haven't heard much yet.


----------



## weightlifter

Keep updating as necessary. Glad you can at least fill your dance card when you want to.

As for settling down...Forgive the women. They hear the biological clock and you don't. It is in their DNA so don't be mad at them.


----------



## keko

Are you divorced or is it still in limbo?


----------



## raging_pain

the divorce is proceeding.. i need to bring a bunch of documentation in to my lawyer, but it's not high on my list of priorities.. so i don't care how fast i get that taken care of.


----------



## Disenchanted

raging_pain said:


> dated two more women, meh. i'm discovering that at my age most women want to find someone to settle down with, i'm only 33 ffs...


Then don't date women your age!

I'm 41, gf: 22.

PERFECT!


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Disenchanted said:


> Then don't date women your age!
> 
> I'm 41, gf: 22.
> 
> PERFECT!


I thought the rule was half your age + 7


----------



## MattMatt

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I thought the rule was half your age + 7


Or someone you feel comfortable with, no matter what their age?


----------



## 3putt

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I thought the rule was half your age + 7


I don't play by those rules any longer. Suffering through 2 adulterous relationships allows me to make my own damn rules when it comes to dating.


----------



## weightlifter

3putt said:


> I don't play by those rules any longer. Suffering through 2 adulterous relationships allows me to make my own damn rules when it comes to dating.


As long as she 18+LOL

Disenchanted... Uh whats her dad think of you? LOL


----------



## 3putt

weightlifter said:


> As long as she 18+LOL
> 
> Disenchanted... Uh whats her dad think of you? LOL


Goodness, I'm not a pedo!

LOL


----------



## Raye888

Your story is terrible to read.
However, you may want to reconsider your move away. It's bad for your kids. You should stay nearby to share in raising them. 
Unless you can get primary custody of your children and take them with you (not likely in my opinion) you are setting yourself up to be a every-second-weekend dad. Don't.


----------



## raging_pain

Raye888 said:


> Your story is terrible to read.
> However, you may want to reconsider your move away. It's bad for your kids. You should stay nearby to share in raising them.
> Unless you can get primary custody of your children and take them with you (not likely in my opinion) you are setting yourself up to be a every-second-weekend dad. Don't.


i have been reconsidering this decision since i made it, and i still come out with the same conclusion. i know it'll be bad for my kids. there isn't a single thing that's coming of this whole fiasco that isn't bad for them.

however, for the last TEN YEARS, i have put my career second to hers. i have taken jobs that were beneath both my pay grade and my dignity so that she could bring our family to where she desired. that practice is now ending with my move out of town.

i am in talks with a place just three hours away in a large metro area that are offering me TWICE what I made at my last position. There's no way I'm passing that up. In fact, from a strategic standpoint, it would be more advantageous for me to take the much-higher-pay career path than remain in this sh1tty small town, re/ providing & caring for my children.


----------



## raging_pain

plus there are many, many, many more women in the larger metro area, they all have their teeth, and aren't in their 60s. FVCK SMALL TOWNS


----------



## The-Deceived

raging_pain said:


> plus there are many, many, many more women in the larger metro area, they all have their teeth, and aren't in their 60s. FVCK SMALL TOWNS


FVCK wh*ring wives.


----------



## WyshIknew

Has she still got the notion that you'll get back together in three years?


----------



## raging_pain

WyshIknew said:


> Has she still got the notion that you'll get back together in three years?


dude,,,,, ok, your question made me shake my head so hard that my world spun. you folks wouldn't believe the **** that has transpired. thank god my homie just came by and got my mind right, or i wouldn't be sharing this particular story.

basically she forced my hand, in a limited sense. she has lived with her parents since this bullshiite began. they finally kicked her out. she goes and rents a fvcking EFFICIENCY that is completely unsuitable for the kids. so now the kids live at the house full time, with her and i trading in and out of both places. it's like my own personal hell. 

it's not going to be like this for long though, as i have ever-increasing job prospects appearing. i am about three weeks in to the application process, and in my field 3-5 weeks is my average. i have already received a fantastic semi-offer (i haven't actually gotten the offer yet, we'll see what happens) so if it does happen i am gone. i'll stay in a hotel until i can find an apartment.




and as to how she is acting.. the other day she told me that she figures we'll probably have sex at some point, as she is still attracted to me. i agreed and made like i'd be fine with it, and leered at her for a while. we are coexisting to some extent, but i am _completely_ not interested. fvck's sake i met a chick in the metro area i'm looking at that is fvcking awesome, i can't wait to move.

i have _zero_ idea what she is thinking. as far as i'm concerned, she's fvcking nuts. not interested. and that's saying a lot, because i'm a total wh0re.


----------



## WyshIknew

Ha ha, so OM gone and she is reaping what she has sown as they say.


----------



## raging_pain

WyshIknew said:


> Ha ha, so OM gone and she is reaping what she has sown as they say.


yeah he bounced the fvck out. like, out of state. it's a tiny bit amusing.


----------



## LostAndContent

How're things RP?


----------



## LongWalk

Read your thread RP. Some how it seems like small town America is to blame for something here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manticore

any update man? how are the metro girls?


----------



## weightlifter

Come on RP. How goes life?


----------



## raging_pain

Well! Hello again TAM. It's been quite a while, eh? Almost a year? Wow. Funny thing is as I review my thread I don't remember making most of those posts; whether it was the stress or the booze I'll never know. This place has functioned for me as a form of public record, which is FANTASTIC.

This is going to have to be a multi-part update so much **** has happened, but TAM is a valuable resource and maybe someone can get something from my story. Also, I do need some help.

First things first: *LongWalk*, I don't know what to say about the small town part. It's where she was raised, and where her parents are. The OM in the original scenario is not from the same small town.


OK. I'm going to eat this food, get my thoughts in order, and then update you all on what has transpired in the last year of my life. It's been insane--


----------



## 3putt

Well I'll be damned. While you went through your sh!t right before I got here, can't wait to hear how you're doing. Good to see you!


----------



## raging_pain

and sleep. turns out i need more than an hour to gather my thoughts.


----------



## Chaparral

Just rearad all your posts a nd missed Duck Dynasty, can't wait.


----------



## weightlifter

Did she ever admit it was physical?

You are still in my sig all this time later!


----------



## manticore

nice to hear about you, for your tone is going to be a good update (I hope)


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## WyshIknew

Raging!

Hello dude, good to hear from you.

Hope you have something awesome to tell us.

Either a successful reconciliation with a contrite, remorseful exWW or that you have moved on and found someone else who rocks your world (and you have a remorseful, contrite exWW who realises how badly she messed up).

Did you ever think any more on the PM you sent me where you wondered if guys in IT type careers were more likely to suffer these types of marriage problems?


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## EI

WyshIknew said:


> Did you ever think any more on the PM you sent me where you wondered if guys in IT type careers were more likely to suffer these types of marriage problems?



That's a very interesting question, Wysh. It might be a good topic for a thread of its own. I have noticed that many BH's, on TAM, have careers in IT, my own BS included, unfortunately.  Although, having been the WS to a husband in this field doesn't give me any greater insight to the answer. I suppose there may be some strange irony in the fact that the OM in my EA/PA also had a career in IT.


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## LongWalk

I am betting that you have not reconciled but who knows.


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## WyshIknew

LongWalk said:


> I am betting that you have not reconciled but who knows.







Probably not.



However the way things were going down it is a possibility that Raging met someone else then WS wanted to reconcile and he now has New Gal and WS competing for him. Who knows, we can speculate but ultimately I just hope it worked out well for him and the kids.


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## Emptyshelldad

Got us bh on the edge of our seats. Looking forward to hearing about it


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## jack.c

Emptyshelldad said:


> Got us bh on the edge of our seats. Looking forward to hearing about it




i think he's doing it on purpose to give us the time to get the popcorn....


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## weightlifter

EI said:


> That's a very interesting question, Wysh. It might be a good topic for a thread of its own. I have noticed that many BH's, on TAM, have careers in IT, my own BS included, unfortunately.  Although, having been the WS to a husband in this field doesn't give me any greater insight to the answer. I suppose there may be some strange irony in the fact that the OM in my EA/PA also had a career in IT.


Pet theory. Note we have a ton of engineers too. 

Im thinking it may have part to do with:
often a fairly significant IQ differential. Between my wife and I there is a difference of about 30 points, but that is not entirely accurate. She is probably about five points higher than me in verbal and I am likely higher in excess of fifty points in math, spatial, logic, pattern recognition, technology etc.
combined with IT and engineers tend to be very numeric and hyperlogical. Something many females don't like.

Last night my wife said I talk like an alien. LOL she is right. I have a very strong tendency to almost always say zero instead of "oh". ("oh" is the letter before "pee") or correct instead of right since right is the opposite of left. My career does this to me. When I PM installations. I have to be precise. This is me "light". You should hear me speaking to a plant engineer!

Enginerd wrote an absolutely brilliant post on it. I believe he is correct. er right er I mean correct...

Anyway end hijack. Good to hear from you Raging.


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## LongWalk

Emptyshelldad said:


> Got us bh on the edge of our seats. Looking forward to hearing about it


And how about you Shelldad?

Is your ex still striving?


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## WyshIknew

EI said:


> That's a very interesting question, Wysh. It might be a good topic for a thread of its own. I have noticed that many BH's, on TAM, have careers in IT, my own BS included, unfortunately.  Although, having been the WS to a husband in this field doesn't give me any greater insight to the answer. I suppose there may be some strange irony in the fact that the OM in my EA/PA also had a career in IT.


I'm not sure.

When Raging started posting about his sitch there seemed to be an awful lot of IT/Electronics type guys posting. Could have just been a coincidence or might just mean that IT guys are more likely to end up on TAM.

I might put this up for discussion later.


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## Chaparral

Extreely smart guys seem to be behind when it comes to talking to women re THE BIG BANG THEORY. Ihave know many guys like that. I actually think genius is limited to certain areas.


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## raging_pain

It was harder than expected to reach back and recollect everything that has transpired since my last post. I will do my best to get everything right. Sorry if this is a jumble, I wrote it over the course of the workday.

WXW = Wayward Ex-Wife
NW = New Woman

So, yeah. Key points-

-I moved three hours away to a major metro area. 
-i see my kids every 2nd to 3rd weekend. it sucks, but whatever. it's the best that can happen for now. i pay through the ****ing nose for child support, so whatever.
-I doubled my salary instantly, there is so much work for me here it's a bit insane. 
-I've dated a few different women, longest one is the one I'm currently dating (going on ~5 months). we're actually hitting it off pretty well. We've talked about moving in together, but my lease isn't up until May so I have plenty of time to see how it all takes shape.


Things have not turned out exactly the way WXW thought they would. WXW is not happy about her decisions, and regrets everything she has done. Story:

Last weekend I went to visit my kids for the day Saturday. The plan was that I would spend Sat. with them, put them to bed, then drive to a friend's house 40 minutes away to spend the night and assist with a motor rebuild the next day. Saturday is going fine, I'm having a great time with my kids as usual. I put them to bed and doze off with them, which is customary for me. APPARENTLY, while I am upstairs with the kids, WXW's roommate returns to the house (WXW & kids live with a female grad student) and the two of them got drunk downstairs while I was upstairs putting the kids to bed. I come out of the kids' room, get ready to go, __completely miss the fact that WXW is drunk__, throw my coat on and go. I go to my friend's place, we get hammered, drunkenly order some car parts, then go to sleep.

The next morning buddy & I meet up with a third person that is also participating in the engine rebuild and we all go get breakfast. Just as we were done eating and heading back to buddy's house to begin work, WXW calls me. She's crying. She tells me that she can't stop throwing up and asks me to come back and watch the kids. I do, and as usual the kids and I have a great time. 

Apparently WXW & her roommate got sick off wine while I was upstairs with the kids the night before. That's what I didn't notice as I left, which I find hilarious.

WXW doesn't manage to crawl out of bed until 3:30pm, and only from prodding from me because I had to get home. 

The moment that her and I are alone she loses it. She starts bawling. She apologizes profusely about another person ever being involved in the divorce. She says that the divorce should still have happened, but she doesn't know why. She apologizes for how ****ty she treated me. She says she wishes I could be around more. She says she still has deep feelings for me. She says she misses me. I tell her I miss her too, because honestly i do. She tells me that she is seeing someone that lives in a city 1.5 hours away from her, and that she has dated a few other people since the divorce, to which i ask her "why are you telling me this" to which she replies "i thought you would want to know about someone that may be around the kids". She asks me if I am still seeing NW, I tell her yes. She says something weird like "good, i'm glad you found someone that works for you".

she also said she felt 'crazy' for a long time there, but feels like that's *mostly* over with. i told her to me it was that she had a short break with reality, and that I'd feel like a fool for the rest of my life because of her. When she said that she wishes I could be around more I responded "you could move closer to (x city)" to which she didn't reply.

one specific thing WXW said: "she wished she could be more like the person she was supposed to be after having removed me from her life". 

i eventually left after helping get the kids dressed to go outside. she thanked me profusely for missing out on that rebuild and helping her when she was sick. i tell her to "write everything she wants to say in an email, so that i can understand her better". she says that she will, but hasn't yet.


so i drive back to my apartment in the metro area. NW is there studying, waiting for my return. She could tell something was up, and she's a smart cookie.. I told NW about WXW getting sick and my going back to watch the kids, but not about what WXW said. NW has become a bit possessive, and asserting herself publicly with me (against other women) when she hasn't before.

I've been letting things come as they may. I don't know what else to do. Should I consider the option of reconciliation? If, for any other reason, than for the kids?


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## 3putt

raging_pain said:


> I've been letting things come as they may. I don't know what else to do. Should I consider the option of reconciliation? If, for any other reason, than for the kids?


Partner, if I were you I would go back and read your first post and a few of your subsequent posts as well.


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## Graywolf2

raging_pain said:


> I don't know what else to do. Should I consider the option of reconciliation? If, for any other reason, than for the kids?


My first impulse is to not R. If you do R, don’t get remarried. 

Just live together and renegotiate the child support. When the kids are grown you will be free to decide if you want to still live with her or not.


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## bfree

raging_pain said:


> Should I consider the option of reconciliation? If, for any other reason, than for the kids?


What has your ex wife done to fix that part of herself that allowed her to betray you?


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## Chaparral

Did you leave something out? I saw nothing about your ex wanting to reconcile, just the opposite. More like she needs a baby sitter. What did I miss?


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## 10th Engineer Harrison

raging_pain said:


> She apologizes profusely about another person ever being involved in the divorce. She says that the divorce should still have happened, but she doesn't know why.


How long ago was the divorce? And she's still confused?



> She says she still has deep feelings for me. She says she misses me.


then...



> She tells me that she is seeing someone that lives in a city 1.5 hours away from her, and that she has dated a few other people since the divorce, to which i ask her "why are you telling me this" to which she replies "i thought you would want to know about someone that may be around the kids". She asks me if I am still seeing NW, I tell her yes. She says something weird like "good, i'm glad you found someone that works for you".


Okay, so she's content?



> she wished she could be more like the person she was supposed to be after having removed me from her life


But since you were "removed", why does this matter 2 you? Why is she telling you this?



> i tell her to "write everything she wants to say in an email, so that i can understand her better". she says that she will, but hasn't yet.


I wouldn't ask again. Why do you need 2 have these conversations with her?



> so i drive back to my apartment in the metro area. NW is there studying, waiting for my return. She could tell something was up, and she's a smart cookie.. I told NW about WXW getting sick and my going back to watch the kids, but not about what WXW said. NW has become a bit possessive, and asserting herself publicly with me (against other women) when she hasn't before.


If you have a good relationship with her and you think you might want it 2 continue, why wouldn't you be truthful about the convo with your X? Are you afraid NW might leave you if she thinks you're contemplating recovery? She should, you know.



> I've been letting things come as they may. I don't know what else to do. Should I consider the option of reconciliation? If, for any other reason, than for the kids?


Uh, no.

-ol' 2long


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## weightlifter

Did she ever admit om1 was physical?


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## manticore

raging_pain said:


> I've been letting things come as they may. I don't know what else to do. Should I consider the option of reconciliation? *If, for any other reason, than for the kids?*


man, no.

as someone whose parents tried R for the kids, I tell you,is horrible, when they finally began to live appart I was so happy and relaxed, together for ou sake they were fighting all the time, accusations of infedelity all the time, and Heard that they just tolareted each other for us did not help for our self steem and selflove at all (is like saying that they are unhappy for our fault)

if you try R it must be because you tasted other waters and you still love her more than anything, but even like that she also has to be remorseful and willing to perform heavy lifting. but your XW is unremorseful, she is not sorry that she betrayed you and hurt you, she is sorry for the mess that her life became for cheating on you, anyone who had read your thread knows that unlike what she says, she did not wanted divorce she was caught cheating and she agreed to divorce because she thought POSOM would come to the rescue, in conclusión she is sorry because:

- she is sorry because she realized POSOM just wanted her ass.
- she is sorry because she is not doing as she expected.
- she is sorry becuase in such small community everybody knows that she cheated
- she is sorry because she knows that nobody there will take her seriously (I mean she ****ed a friend of her husband).
- she is sorry because the only men she can date have to be out of the city (1.5 hours of distance)
- she is sorry because you are doing great.

she is sorry for alot of things but not for the ones that she should be to consider reconcilation.

think about it, if POSOM would have been pretending her seriously and she were now dating him and getting ready to marry him would she be sorry?


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## raging_pain

bfree said:


> What has your ex wife done to fix that part of herself that allowed her to betray you?


nothing as far as i know



Chaparral said:


> Did you leave something out? I saw nothing about your ex wanting to reconcile, just the opposite. More like she needs a baby sitter. What did I miss?


?? She was saying things like she didn't know why we had to be divorced, just that we did. That she missed me and wished I was around more. Etc. am I nuts?


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## raging_pain

weightlifter said:


> Did she ever admit om1 was physical?


yes


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## bfree

bfree said:


> What has your ex wife done to fix that part of herself that allowed her to betray you?





raging_pain said:


> nothing as far as i know


Then what makes you think anything has changed? What gives you pause to think that she can't/won't do it again?


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## 10th Engineer Harrison

Never mind. I'll stay off your thread.

-ol' 2long


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## phillybeffandswiss

raging_pain said:


> Should I consider the option of reconciliation? If, for any other reason, than for the kids?


Read these stories, unadulterated or filtered for statistics and think HARD if you are going to do it "for the kids."

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-suffer-they-wont-get-over-your-cheating.html


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## Acabado

raging_pain said:


> The moment that her and I are alone she loses it. She starts bawling. *She apologizes profusely about another person ever being involved in the divorce. She says that the divorce should still have happened, but she doesn't know why.* *She apologizes for how ****ty she treated me. She says she wishes I could be around more. She says she still has deep feelings for me. She says she misses me.* I tell her I miss her too, because honestly i do. *She tells me that she is seeing someone* that lives in a city 1.5 hours away from her, and that she has dated a few other people since the divorce, to which i ask her "why are you telling me this" to which she replies *"i thought you would want to know about someone that may be around the kids"*. She asks me if I am still seeing NW, I tell her yes. She says something weird like *"good, i'm glad you found someone that works for you".
> *
> she also said *she felt 'crazy' for a long time there, but feels like that's *mostly* over with*. i told her to me it was that she had a short break with reality, and that I'd feel like a fool for the rest of my life because of her. When she said that *she wishes I could be around more* I responded "you could move closer to (x city)" to which she didn't reply.
> 
> one specific thing WXW said: *"she wished she could be more like the person she was supposed to be after having removed me from her life". *


She's all over the map. The bolded parts clearly attest it. 
But man, the red piece is a window to her delusional thinking.
I'd gamble my left ball she has no idea who she was supposed to be after removing... what, the cancer?
When you asked for her to put into writing her thoughts that was the key question. Who she pretended to be if she got rid of you?


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## LongWalk

Raging Pain,

You have read your WXW's speech pretty well. She has put out a feeler to see if you are willing to consider it.

When you asked her why she was coming up with this speech, you did the right thing: you pushed her to express herself honestly. She is not quite up to it. There is that matter of pride. The guy who lives far away but who might be in your children's lives... sounds a bit like she doesn't want to admit that NW has her jealous, so she wants to appear as if she has something good going.

But how good can that relationship be if she is missing you more and more and feeling worse about her behavior when cheating. Obviously, this guy is not all that special. And if that is the case why does she have to introduce him to your kids?

Is she really saying I don't want introduce my fvck buddy jerk to our children as a half-arsed step dad if you will take me back and not give me grief about all the crap I've pulled. 

That is not an legit offer because a cheater has to show considerable remorse or why bother with R? Reconciliation with a remorseless cheater is R, as in retarded.

If you are interested to know what is really on offer, ask her to explain who she thought she was supposed to become after dumping you.... hey, that's exactly what Acabado wrote. Well, he was dead on. To that you can also ask who she wants to be and what is stopping her.

She is not so much deluded as disillusioned with her own cheating behavior. She has become more realistic. She svcks and she knows it. That is not the same as loving you 100%.

If you are exclusive with NW, you have to tell her about WXW's twist.

You need to get 50/50 custody of your kids.


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## warlock07

raging_pain said:


> nothing as far as i know
> 
> 
> 
> ?? She was saying things like she didn't know why we had to be divorced, just that we did. That she missed me and wished I was around more. Etc. am I nuts?


Yes..Not sure what you are even thinking..


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## warlock07

raging_pain said:


> yes


Why are even considering taking her back ?


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## lordmayhem

Chaparral said:


> Did you leave something out? I saw nothing about your ex wanting to reconcile, just the opposite. More like she needs a baby sitter. What did I miss?


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

That's exactly what I see here. She needs a babysitter and a man to do the husband things for her. That's all.

In other words: I miss all the husband things you do for me.

raging_pain, you are grasping at straws here. She hasn't even asked for any forgiveness or begging to get back together. All she has to do is mention that she misses you and wished that you were around more and then your already having thoughts of R? 

This shows that you're STILL emotionally vulnerable to her, despite having moved and dated other women. You are still engaging her too much. Keep communication about the children ONLY. Because you're still so vulnerable to her, I can see that all she has to do is mention a desire for R or turn on the waterworks and beg, and you will IMMEDIATELY attempt to R with her. 

You know this deep down, that if you even do, the cycle will start again. She will again cheat. She will again verbally and emotionally abuse you by telling you she wants a divorce. All she misses about you is the daddy and husband things you do for her.

Not to mention that is is totally unfair to NW. You are using NW as your emotional crutch because you're not over your STBXW. Look, I'm all for R under the right circumstances. But its very obvious that your STBXW is simply a cake eater.


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## raging_pain

lordmayhem said:


> IMMEDIATELY attempt to R with her


i think i may have come off as way more open to R than i meant to. i even told WXW that, saying to her "why would I put myself in that situation again". I'm just trying to look at things objectively. The apologies and whatnot were so unexpected. It's just anxiety, it's me going through all the possible scenarios in my mind.


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## LongWalk

RP,

It's natural to be shocked by her admission. She put you on the dumpster with the old shoes, broken skate board and plastic flowers. Suddenly she understood that you mattered to your lives and her. Whether someone R's or not is a personal decision. Children for sure change the picture. 

You can shoot down R without putting her down. Tell her that co-parenting is going better and better. 

Again you need to be more than a weekend dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

Pain, what happens is things didn't happen as she expected, that's all.
And she envies you, she sees you in the city, improving, enjoying your life, getting more money, with a new girlfriend... while she's stuck in the small town with the kids, even in weekends asking her parents to babysit so she can get laid... It's probable this potential alegued new boyfriend is not that interested in being around your kids. It's a veiled threat.


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## lordmayhem

*Re: Re: betrayed, like so many here*



raging_pain said:


> i think i may have come off as way more open to R than i meant to. i even told WXW that, saying to her "why would I put myself in that situation again". I'm just trying to look at things objectively. The apologies and whatnot were so unexpected. It's just anxiety, it's me going through all the possible scenarios in my mind.


Whatever you ultimately decide, don't allow her to use the kids to manipulate you.


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## Fordsvt

If she has a PA she will do it again if you take her back-don't even consider it
Focus on the new GF. 
Your Ex is a mess-leave her there.
Longwalk is right-get 50-50 custody of the kids.


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## raging_pain

i appreciate everyone that has given me a good dose of reality. i know it would be foolhardy(?) to even consider reconciliation. like was said, she'd (maybe?) do it again, and i would constantly be suspicious.

i miss her though, and i don't know why. it's maddening. i feel like a bumbling fool. doubt is lingering over every thought.


aren't there stories (some of them with successful endings) all over this board of people that attempt R, where the WS is completely transparent, and trust is re-built? shouldn't i at least be open to consideration of the option?

and i am beginning to get back to 50/50 custody of my children.. maybe once that has occurred, these doubts that plague me would disappear. at least i sure hope that is what happens.


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## weightlifter

You could ASK her if she is willing to live transparently FOREVER.

Not my road dude. YOURS!


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## weightlifter

Ugh I forget did she ever admit the affair was physical?

Anyway reread the thread. No offense but I have seen worse affairs. Whyeme, The guy, Gutpunch...

So R? I dont know but I have seen worse. The guy and GP are in R IIRC.


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## LostViking

raging_pain said:


> i appreciate everyone that has given me a good dose of reality. i know it would be foolhardy(?) to even consider reconciliation. like was said, she'd (maybe?) do it again, and i would constantly be suspicious.
> 
> i miss her though, and i don't know why. it's maddening. i feel like a bumbling fool. doubt is lingering over every thought.
> 
> 
> aren't there stories (some of them with successful endings) all over this board of people that attempt R, where the WS is completely transparent, and trust is re-built? shouldn't i at least be open to consideration of the option?
> 
> and i am beginning to get back to 50/50 custody of my children.. maybe once that has occurred, these doubts that plague me would disappear. at least i sure hope that is what happens.


Just expect that it is going to take you a good four to five years before you completely let the pain go and move on. But move on you must. Your WW is clueless and sounds extremely immature to me. 

All you can do is play the game, get the best custody deal you can and move forward with your life. Getting cheated on sucks. That's just the reality of the situation. Maybe twenty years from now she will come back and apologize to you like my first ex-wife did, but don't count on it.


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## WyshIknew

raging_pain said:


> i appreciate everyone that has given me a good dose of reality. i know it would be foolhardy(?) to even consider reconciliation. like was said, she'd (maybe?) do it again, and i would constantly be suspicious.
> 
> i miss her though, and i don't know why. it's maddening. i feel like a bumbling fool. doubt is lingering over every thought.
> 
> 
> aren't there stories (some of them with successful endings) all over this board of people that attempt R, where the WS is completely transparent, and trust is re-built? shouldn't i at least be open to consideration of the option?
> 
> and i am beginning to get back to 50/50 custody of my children.. maybe once that has occurred, these doubts that plague me would disappear. at least i sure hope that is what happens.


Take a look at the reconciliation thread. There are betrayed spouses and wayward spouses there. Both may be able to help you.


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## doubletrouble

raging_pain said:


> i appreciate everyone that has given me a good dose of reality. i know it would be foolhardy(?) to even consider reconciliation. like was said, she'd (maybe?) do it again, and i would constantly be suspicious.
> 
> i miss her though, and i don't know why. it's maddening. i feel like a bumbling fool. doubt is lingering over every thought.
> 
> 
> aren't there stories (some of them with successful endings) all over this board of people that attempt R, where the WS is completely transparent, and trust is re-built? shouldn't i at least be open to consideration of the option?
> 
> and i am beginning to get back to 50/50 custody of my children.. maybe once that has occurred, these doubts that plague me would disappear. at least i sure hope that is what happens.


*raises hand* I'm in R with a remorseful fWW. It's no picnic. You both have to work really hard at it. Communication has to be at its most open, brutally honest, yet not being cruel to each other. It's tempting to be cruel, but there's no mileage in it, if you're going to R. To me, it's more difficult than D (and I've been there, too).


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## WhiteRaven

raging_pain said:


> i miss her though, and i don't know why. it's maddening. i feel like a bumbling fool. doubt is lingering over every thought.





whiteraven said:


> I'm somehow accepting the fact that despite everything I still love my xWW. You can't flip a switch and make it go away. It stays, forever. It's easier to say that I hate her with all my heart. If someone asks 'why', I can give a lot of reasons. But if someone asks why do I still love her, I don't have a single reason, a single justification. I just love her. It just makes me feel I'm stupid.


Few days ago, I posted something that resembled your post. Accept the fact that the love would keep lingering somewhere in our hearts. Let go of them completely before this remaining love turns completely into hatred.


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## GusPolinski

WhiteRaven said:


> Few days ago, I posted something that resembled your post. Accept the fact that the love would keep lingering somewhere in our hearts. Let go of them completely before this remaining love turns completely into hatred.


I don't know that love and hate are the same emotion (different sides of the same emotion, perhaps), but I'm 110% convinced that they're drawn from the very same emotional wellspring. Like I said to someone -- my brother, I think -- some time ago, "The deeper the love, the more intense the hate." 

Or something like that.


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## jb02157

I think your definitely on the right track. Start drafting the divorce with a lawyer now and when you present her with the evidence of her affair, record her reaction because you can use that against her in the divorce. Also, record all the malicious things that she said about you when she was denying you a chance to reconcile. Having these items will make a difference in divorce court.


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## Augusto

any updates?


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## Calibre1212

You have to love yourself enough to find the courage to let her go. You have to love her enough to let her go. I don't think we truly know and understand what love is, until we find that place within our hearts to let go of a person. It is courageous to make a decision to let go of a person who is ambivalent about what we mean to them and who cannot reciprocate the love we so freely give to them.


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## raging_pain

Hi all! Nearly a year has passed since my last post, I thought I would pop in and give another update.

Let's see.. WXW and I are very hostile towards one another, but I don't mind. If it weren't for our children, I would be fine with never seeing her again. She has found someone to provide for her, dude has to be at least 10 years her senior. I don't really care. She's lost her freaking mind, and I want no part of it save what is necessary for the kids.

Yes, letting go was very hard. I'm not sure when it even happened, but it did. Finally. I have heard that it takes men about twice as long as women to recover from a scenario such as this, but whatever. I was in one relationship that was wild but short, and another for around 8 months. Unfortunately that one had to end, and I then moved from the suburbs to the heart of the metro. Recently (1.5 months now) I've been dating someone new, and it is a lot of fun. I feel free.


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## Chaparral

What happened to she was so sorry about what she did?

Whatever happened to your ex best friend?


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## raging_pain

Chaparral said:


> What happened to she was so sorry about what she did?
> 
> Whatever happened to your ex best friend?


She likely forgot that she ever said those things, as she was in a weakened state (sick from booze) when she said them, and to keep her own worldview from breaking she'd pretend like she never said it in the first place. Ever since I moved out of town she's been spiraling, trying to keep up the image that everything she did/does is right.

It was actually a friend of my best friend, he fled the state the day he heard I had discovered the affair. Literally, he moved out of state. Gigantic coward.


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## weightlifter

Raging!


----------

