# Who here has lost sexual interest in your spouse?



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So the topic with all the activity here is always the HD partner wanting more from their spouse.

What about the other way round? Who here has significantly lost interest in sex? Why did it happen? How long did it last? Did you ever get it back? What toll if any did it take on your marriage - or was it a welcome development?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I lost interest in sex with Mrs. C after I felt betrayed and unsupported by her a few years ago. We haven't really recovered our mojo. She would like a daily dose and I am usually good for 2-5 depending.

I have to feel safe and loved by the person I'm having sex with however which might make me odd for a man.

If we aren't solid in our relationship, I don't want sex with her.

So we are still struggling because I don't always feel safe with her anymore.

Sucks...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I lost interest in sex with Mrs. C after I felt betrayed and unsupported by her a few years ago. We haven't really recovered our mojo. She would like a daily dose and I am usually good for 2-5 depending.
> 
> I have to feel safe and loved by the person I'm having sex with however which might make me odd for a man.
> 
> ...



Me too. I started to lose interest in my ex when his ED got bad and he wouldn't deal with it....I felt really unwanted.

When I found out about his communications with his ex gf that was it...I need to feel safe and loved as well.

I felt neither.

Since I left him it clearly never came back.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Me too. I started to lose interest in my ex when his ED got bad and he wouldn't deal with it....I felt really unwanted.
> 
> When I found out about his communications with his ex gf that was it...I need to feel safe and loved as well.
> 
> ...


I'm really hoping for a different outcome. I absolutely agree with your decision but I hope my own can be worked out.

I guess I will have to decide just how unhealthy I am willing to be or if Mrs. C will step up to be who I need to be as healthy as I can be.

Your actions were both evidently necessary and great!


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Been there myself.

Still there but to a lesser degree.

After a couple decades of HD/LD mismatch culminating in feeling like a sperm bank turned paycheck, I felt completely dead in the desire department. No feeling for her and no interest in sex whatsoever. 

Since then, three things have really helped...
1. I overcame depression which had colored my thoughts and feelings
2. I overcame a sleep disorder that really fogged my brain
3. I learned a lot more about her, her history, and her personality an how it affected her view of sex

Things are much better now.... intellectually and emotionally. But real passion has yet to return. I dont generally initiate... not becaus of rejection avoidance like in the passed, but because I'm just not often moved to do so. When she initiates, I have no problem rising to the occasion, but it takes some real concentration and feels more forced than natural.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I'm really hoping for a different outcome. I absolutely agree with your decision but I hope my own can be worked out.
> 
> I guess I will have to decide just how unhealthy I am willing to be or if Mrs. C will step up to be who I need to be as healthy as I can be.
> 
> Your actions were both evidently necessary and great!


I hope you do work it out. You have more invested then I did....kids and grandkids. I had no kids with him, separate finances, didn't get along with his stuck up daughter.....and what did I need a 19 years older dirtbag that needed to keep his ex around?

Your situation is a little different.

I guess the only thing I would ask you to consider is whether you know what you need from her and whether its reasonable to ask. By reasonable I mean is it something that a reasonable person could accommodate and is she capable of it.

What I needed my ex wasn't capable of.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I lost interest in sex with Mrs. C after I felt betrayed and unsupported by her a few years ago. We haven't really recovered our mojo. She would like a daily dose and I am usually good for 2-5 depending.
> 
> I have to feel safe and loved by the person I'm having sex with however which might make me odd for a man.
> 
> ...


What? I’ve been misreading you here. Strength, power and lots of love to you and Mrs C.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Yes. I completely lost interest in my x wife after I discovered her affair. I honestly considered her a 10 and was obviously blinded by love goggles. Soon After i saw her for what she was, I couldn’t have had sex with her now matter what. My complete loss of trust translated right into the bedroom and I knew that would never recover. Our marriage was over


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Occasionally, when things were bad and felt that my wife wasn't committed to our marriage. Sad times, but I was blind and didn't what to see...


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I have to feel safe and loved by the person I'm having sex with however which might make me odd for a man.


This was the reason I lost interest in sex with my wife. I knew I was not "safe" and was not "loved". I could have survived her affairs, but the truth of why she chose me as a husband, coupled with her blame-shifting, showed me that I would never be "safe" or "loved" in the bedroom. The marriage ended.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CharlieParker said:


> What? I’ve been misreading you here. Strength, power and lots of love to you and Mrs C.


We are still working on it but we haven't recovered to where we use to be.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Can't offer much here. I have always been attracted to my wife since day one. I'll admit when the kids were young and she was drained at the end of each day we
lost some of our quality time. With the empty nest phase of life arriving upon us, we are at it like teenagers and recognize the importance of keeping all phases of
our relationship strong. I've become more self aware of my actions as a person, husband, and lover which has helped us out a lot as well.

Best luck to all those who find themselves in other circumstances.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

I have strange work circumstances that keep me away from home 4 weeks at a time. The anticipation factor allows for "re-honeymooning" every 8 weeks.
This alone allows us to miss each other and then reconnect. While the work away from home situation sucks .... it is also a benefit.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I lost interest in sex with Mrs. C after I felt betrayed and unsupported by her a few years ago. We haven't really recovered our mojo. She would like a daily dose and I am usually good for 2-5 depending.
> 
> I have to feel safe and loved by the person I'm having sex with however which might make me odd for a man.
> 
> ...


One of the biggest differences between my wife and I is what drives our individual sex drives. I am more along the lines of you in that I need the relationship to be in a certain place, which is one of the reasons the final four years of my marriage to my NPD ex wife was completely sexless. I just completely shut down sexually because I was not attracted to her in any way.

It is hard to describe exactly what I need from my partner, though safety and love could describe it I guess. I need their focus to be on us, and the good of our relationship. I need to feel as if we are all in on the same team. My wife on the other hand does not seem to need any of that. Her sexual interest is mostly detached from the state of the relationship or her feelings towards me.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I am HD and lost sexual interest in my first (LD) wife after many years of her avoiding and denying me sex. I didn't lose interest in sex, just _sex with her_, so that's the point where I decided to move on.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I lost interest in sex with Mrs. C after I felt betrayed and unsupported by her a few years ago. We haven't really recovered our mojo. She would like a daily dose and I am usually good for 2-5 depending.
> 
> I have to feel safe and loved by the person I'm having sex with however which might make me odd for a man.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by "safe"? The word can have a lot of meanings, and I pretty sure you don't feel physically threatened. Safe to be who you are? Emotionally vulnerable? Something else? You don't have to provide any specifics if that's uncomfortable.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> terest in sex whatsoever.
> 
> Since then, three things have really helped...
> ...
> 3. I learned a lot more about her, her history, and her personality an how it affected her view of sex


It was fully coming to terms with and accepting my wife's sexual nature that has driven me further from desire.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I still find my wife sexually attractive, but I'm not very interested in having sex with her.

I'm having a hard time getting past feeling like I've been thrown in the back of the patrol car wearing the plastic handcuffs every time things get started. 

"Don't touch that. Don't put your mouth anywhere near there. Don't get aroused this way because it's not welcome". I find myself reciting the Ten Commandments of what thou shalt not do in bed. 

So I feel like I'm making love in a straightjacket. For the first time in my life, I understand that feeling at bed time - "I hope she just rolls over and goes to sleep". We're empty nesters. We should be desecrating every surface in the house. And I could have sex, easily twice a week, from a person who would actually enjoy it as long as the myriad rules are followed. So I dither between feeling selfish and entitled and righteously justified. 

But, at the end of the day, the sad fact is that I can have as rewarding a sex life on my own as I can with my partner. So why bother? Lately, I haven't been much willing to bother.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Cletus said:


> It was fully coming to terms with and accepting my wife's sexual nature that has driven me further from desire.


Very understandable. And once that happens, it's really, really hard to go back. It's like an achilles tendon injury. Once that bond is completely severed, even with the best docs and rehab, it never gets back to 100%.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> What do you mean by "safe"? The word can have a lot of meanings, and I pretty sure you don't feel physically threatened. Safe to be who you are? Emotionally vulnerable? Something else? You don't have to provide any specifics if that's uncomfortable.


Mrs. C can get very heated, nasty and sharp at times when I am not ok with her beating me up emotionally.

We have had a very fiery and passionate dynamic for our entire relationship but a few years ago I hit my breaking point and Superman found his kryptonite.

I was the guy everyone thought that they could throw anything at, burdens, insults, treating me harshly or without consideration because they perceived me as bullet proof.

I definitely fostered that image but I needed Mrs. C to be a little different in her treatment of me because, despite the hype, I was as human and vulnerable as anyone.

After I reached my limit and had a life altering accident, she often still tries to treat me like I'm unbreakable and I don't have anymore ****ing tolerance for it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. C can get very heated, nasty and sharp at times when I am not ok with her beating me up emotionally.
> 
> We have had a very fiery and passionate dynamic for our entire relationship but a few years ago I hit my breaking point and Superman found his kryptonite.
> 
> ...


Having seen you post for a long time now, I can certainly see how you burnished that image of yourself. I imagine it will take some time for the "new" you to be fully incorporated into your marriage. Best of luck.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I still find my wife sexually attractive, but I'm not very interested in having sex with her.
> 
> I'm having a hard time getting past feeling like I've been thrown in the back of the patrol car wearing the plastic handcuffs every time things get started.
> 
> ...


Ouch.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Ouch.


Yeah. Careful what you wish for - I have that unicorn that half the population here is looking for - one that can cum from PIV every single time in under 10 minutes - sometimes twice. Turns out that can make for a very unadventurous lover.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. C can get very heated, nasty and sharp at times when I am not ok with her beating me up emotionally.
> 
> We have had a very fiery and passionate dynamic for our entire relationship but a few years ago I hit my breaking point and Superman found his kryptonite.
> 
> ...


My wife also used to be rather pointed and could get nasty and berating. 

Fortunately, she identified that, worked on it, and has been a very level, stable, and devoted partner for many years now. For whatever faults she may have, she has made her life one of self improvement and it has been my pleasure to watch her grow emotionally and spiritually through the years. And she has often lifted me in the process, just as I try to help her on her journey. We partner very well in that regard. We both want to be better and we have different strengths and weaknesses, and we are able to focus on each sharing the best of us for the betterment of both.

It sure wasn't easy at the start, but it gets easier as you go along if you remain conscious and practice it at every opportunity, it becomes second nature; the bringing each other up rather than the bringing each other down. 

But few folks remain conscious and alert to their blind spots, let alone two together in the same couple. It's not easy and, sadly, it's not natural for most humans. It's no wonder marriage can be such a challenge.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. C can get very heated, nasty and sharp at times when I am not ok with her beating me up emotionally.
> 
> We have had a very fiery and passionate dynamic for our entire relationship but a few years ago I hit my breaking point and Superman found his kryptonite.
> 
> ...


I live in this same trap. People see me as calm cool and collected. Even keeled. Unflappable. For the most part, I am. The rare times I show any cracks in the armour, it is very unsettling for those around me, and I find I am never given the benefit of the doubt, if that makes any sense. My wife on the other hand has a flash temper and is prone to disproportionate emotional responses in both scope and duration to things.

While is is exceedingly rare to be directed at me personally, I do have to bear the brunt of the bull in the china shop, regardless of the cause. She is self aware enough to apologize when the moment has passed, but her viscous outbursts will instantly zap any sexual desire in the moment. This is alien to her because she can be raging, and want to stop just long enough to get laid, and then go right back to raging.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> I live in this same trap. People see me as calm cool and collected. Even keeled. Unflappable. For the most part, I am. The rare times I show any cracks in the armour, it is very unsettling for those around me, and I find I am never given the benefit of the doubt, if that makes any sense. My wife on the other hand has a flash temper and is prone to disproportionate emotional responses in both scope and duration to things.
> 
> While is is exceedingly rare to be directed at me personally, I do have to bear the brunt of the bull in the china shop, regardless of the cause. She is self aware enough to apologize when the moment has passed, but her viscous outbursts will instantly zap any sexual desire in the moment. This is alien to her because she can be raging, and want to stop just long enough to get laid, and then go right back to raging.


Mrs. Conan wants her playtime regardless as well.:|


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Cletus said:


> I still find my wife sexually attractive, but I'm not very interested in having sex with her.


That seems like such an oxymoron, but in my case, it's so true. 

I can look at my wife and still think "Wow, that is mighty pleasing to my eye," but at the same time, nothing's stirring south of the border. 

It still seems odd.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That seems like such an oxymoron, but in my case, it's so true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It’s not. It’s biology. We are all not getting any younger!
Don’t blame the wimmins for this though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Yeah. Careful what you wish for - I have that unicorn that half the population here is looking for - one that can cum from PIV every single time in under 10 minutes - sometimes twice. Turns out that can make for a very unadventurous lover.


BTDT, my wife was similar, the PiV was good why bother with much else. But post menopause she could no longer cum from PiV. Changing up the repertoire was difficult and, among other things, totally messed up our dynamic. What used to be effortless now requires effort. We're still willing to make the effort but I sometimes wonder for how long.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. Conan wants her playtime regardless as well.:|


Early on in our relationship, I tried to accommodate that playtime when I wasn't feeling it, but it just got exhausting, and felt very much in conflict with my own sexual nature, so I generally don't any more.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> It’s not. It’s biology. We are all not getting any younger!
> Don’t blame the wimmins for this though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, we've been through this before. This is not something that happened "biologically." That sort of thing happens gradually over time. It happened instantaneously the moment the light bulb came on and I finally faced with open eyes exactly what I was dealing with. In fact, in the last couple years before the switch being instantaneously flipped into the oh eff eff position, my desire had actually been growing. 

This is also backed up scientifically by my T levels showing well above normal for a man my "not any younger" age. 

And this is also not to "blame the wimmins." She is who she is. I don't blame her for that. It's just a difference.... neither one right or wrong, just different. 

I know you're referring to a common phenomenon, and it's easy to jump to that conclusion, but it doesn't apply in this particular case.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I lost interest in sex with Mrs. C after I felt betrayed and unsupported by her a few years ago. We haven't really recovered our mojo. She would like a daily dose and I am usually good for 2-5 depending.
> 
> I have to feel safe and loved by the person I'm having sex with however which might make me odd for a man.
> 
> ...





ConanHub said:


> Mrs. C can get very heated, nasty and sharp at times when I am not ok with her beating me up emotionally.
> 
> We have had a very fiery and passionate dynamic for our entire relationship but a few years ago I hit my breaking point and Superman found his kryptonite.
> 
> ...


I trust that you continue to share this with her?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> And this is also not to "blame the wimmins." She is who she is. I don't blame her for that. It's just a difference.... neither one right or wrong, just different.


Give that man a cigar. 

While you're still fighting against the nature of your spouse, thinking that somewhere there's some magical elixir to change what's staring you straight in the face, you can maintain interest. A fight you're still in is a fight you might one day win.

When you come to the full realization that this is just reality, no one's to blame so consequently no one needs fixing, that in fact trying to fix it is being unkind to your spouse, that's when the real "meh" sets in.

I am starting to think about the notion of companionate marriage. But that's one of those you-can't-take-it-back moments, so I'm being circumspect. For now.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Cletus said:


> I still find my wife sexually attractive, but I'm not very interested in having sex with her.
> 
> I'm having a hard time getting past feeling like I've been thrown in the back of the patrol car wearing the plastic handcuffs every time things get started.
> 
> ...


When I was younger, perhaps I would have had sex under any conditions. 

At my age and with my current level of desire, not so much.

Having sex with my wife with too many conditions attached wouldn't interest me.

Also, continuing to have sex with her on her terms allows her to continue thinking that there aren't any problems.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

When my W showed little interest or made minimal effort, I lost any sexual desire for her.

My W is very rarely if ever nasty or sharp with me. That would be an instant boner killer (but TBH, I doubt I would be with someone who exhibited that type of behavior with any sort or regularity).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BioFury said:


> I trust that you continue to share this with her?


She blames PTSD and wants me to get help. I do suffer but it just pisses me off that she keeps blaming PTSD for my poor reactions to her beating me up emotionally.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> She blames PTSD and wants me to get help. I do suffer but it just pisses me off that she keeps blaming PTSD for my poor reactions to her beating me up emotionally.


Can you blame her? I could be totally off, but did you put up with her bad behavior, until the car accident? In my mind's eye, the accident was the... brick, that broke the camels back, so to speak. The breakdown caused your perceptions of things to shift, and your reactions to her behavior to change as well.

So from her perspective, you've been taking it all these years, with little perceivable backlash. But after the accident, that changed. She thinks the accident made her previously acceptable behavior, unacceptable. While the truth is that it was always unacceptable to you, you just had the emotional fortitude to put up with it.

Is this hitting home, or am I off base?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> She blames PTSD and wants me to get help. I do suffer but it just pisses me off that she keeps blaming PTSD for my poor reactions to her beating me up emotionally.


BL's quote on this always resonated with me:

Keep your eyes on your own paper.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

BioFury said:


> Can you blame her? I could be totally off, but did you put up with her bad behavior, until the car accident? In my mind's eye, the accident was the... brick, that broke the camels back, so to speak. The breakdown caused your perceptions of things to shift, and your reactions to her behavior to change as well.
> 
> So from her perspective, you've been taking it all these years, with little perceivable backlash. But after the accident, that changed. She thinks the accident made her previously acceptable behavior, unacceptable. While the truth is that it was always unacceptable to you, you just had the emotional fortitude to put up with it.
> 
> Is this hitting home, or am I off base?


While that sounds like a fair synopsis, what she thinks of it really matters little.

Conan has changed. In his mind, it's a change for the better. She can accept it...or not.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> While that sounds like a fair synopsis, what she thinks of it really matters little.
> 
> Conan has changed. In his mind, it's a change for the better. She can accept it...or not.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


What she thinks matters quite a bit. As his wife, she needs to understand where he's coming from, and why things are the way that they are. If they're to keep walking the same road together, they need to be on the same page. And that is made prohibitively difficult, if she misunderstands him, his thoughts, and reactions.

So if Conan hasn't told her that her behavior always wrangled him, he just had the emotional will to put up with it (pre-accident), then her conclusion that it's PTSD is entirely logical. And she would thus think therapy is the way it needs to be dealt with, rather than her altering her behavior.

I'm just advocating transparency.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BioFury said:


> Can you blame her? I could be totally off, but did you put up with her bad behavior, until the car accident? In my mind's eye, the accident was the... brick, that broke the camels back, so to speak. The breakdown caused your perceptions of things to shift, and your reactions to her behavior to change as well.
> 
> So from her perspective, you've been taking it all these years, with little perceivable backlash. But after the accident, that changed. She thinks the accident made her previously acceptable behavior, unacceptable. While the truth is that it was always unacceptable to you, you just had the emotional fortitude to put up with it.
> 
> Is this hitting home, or am I off base?


Bullseye.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BioFury said:


> What she thinks matters quite a bit. As his wife, she needs to understand where he's coming from, and why things are the way that they are. If they're to keep walking the same road together, they need to be on the same page. And that is made prohibitively difficult, if she misunderstands him, his thoughts, and reactions.
> 
> So if Conan hasn't told her that her behavior always wrangled him, he just had the emotional will to put up with it (pre-accident), then her conclusion that it's PTSD is entirely logical. And she would thus think therapy is the way it needs to be dealt with, rather than her altering her behavior.
> 
> I'm just advocating transparency.


She has agreed to counseling so I should probably get it arranged. 

Her behavior has always been unacceptable but I was not phased before the accident.

Counseling might get her to understand better what I have already told her.


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## Cat Lady (May 7, 2019)

I pretty much have. My drive is higher than his. I have spent a lot of years articulating what I want, which results in temporary change only, and being turned down and dealing with a guy who just doesn't see sex like I do. In another thread someone said that it's just not in his nature, and it isn't. I've accepted that and have made the choice to live with it. We do have sex and we both enjoy it, it just isn't a way in which we connect. I spent a lot of years thinking sex was supposed to be some great huge sizzling soul connecting experience every time but it just isn't for me with him. Maybe it would be with someone else but that someone might well be a complete and utter failure at life otherwise. Who knows. Sex also isn't something that he wants to be different from what he knows works, hence each time is a carbon copy of the time before. And he's let himself go - his belly is far bigger than it should be and I just don't find that sexy. That naked statue of Trump that someone did a few months ago really reminded me of him, sad to say. but in the grand scheme of things, these are rather trivial. I've made the choice to settle for this, and that's ok.

We had better sex for a lot of years but things have changed, like they do in a marriage. Some aspects of our relationship are far better now than they used to be. Things wax and wane, and taken in the context of the whole relationship, if things aren't the way you want them in one department you have to decide if the way things are in other departments means the relationship is worth continuing.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

BioFury said:


> What she thinks matters quite a bit. As his wife, she needs to understand where he's coming from, and why things are the way that they are. If they're to keep walking the same road together, they need to be on the same page. And that is made prohibitively difficult, if she misunderstands him, his thoughts, and reactions.
> 
> So if Conan hasn't told her that her behavior always wrangled him, he just had the emotional will to put up with it (pre-accident), then her conclusion that it's PTSD is entirely logical. And she would thus think therapy is the way it needs to be dealt with, rather than her altering her behavior.
> 
> I'm just advocating transparency.


Agreed. My understanding of the situation is that he has been transparent, after a significant block of trying to white-knuckle it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I am HD. I lost interest in my ex husband sexually Bc he changed and I stopped liking who he was. I no longer respected him, and I resented him so much. Toward the end of our marriage, I tried to have sex with him and I remember a few times when I couldn’t get wet at all... like dessert dry. And his response was “wow even your vagina hates me.” And he was right.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> I am HD. I lost interest in my ex husband sexually Bc he changed and I stopped liking who he was. I no longer respected him, and I resented him so much. Toward the end of our marriage, I tried to have sex with him and I remember a few times when I couldn’t get wet at all... like dessert dry. And his response was *“wow even your vagina hates me.” And he was right.*


ouch!

oh, and pro tip: if adding a little more butter will keep your dessert from being to dry. (not much you can do about the desert though)


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> oh, and pro tip: if adding a little more butter will keep your dessert from being to dry. (not much you can do about the desert though)




We used lube. The problem was it’s kinda insulting to HAVE to use it when wife is a young healthy 20-something year old. Also, there were times when the lube dried out during and it started to really hurt and having to reapply is not sexy... 


I mean let’s be honest? Isn’t it super sexy when you reach down on your wide and she is soaking wet? My boyfriend says that to me all the time. And I’m sure when you reach down and meet a dry dessert that is not sexy.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So I'm getting some responses from people who genuinely disliked their spouse at the time, who had no interest in continuing the relationship. 

That's not exactly the demographic I was shooting for. I don't think anyone is surprised that you don't want sex with someone you despise.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> We used lube. The problem was it’s kinda insulting to HAVE to use it when wife is a young healthy 20-something year old. Also, there were times when the lube dried out during and it started to really hurt and having to reapply is not sexy...
> 
> 
> I mean let’s be honest? Isn’t it super sexy when you reach down on your wide and she is soaking wet? My boyfriend says that to me all the time. And I’m sure when you reach down and meet a dry dessert that is not sexy.


I get all that. Understand fully and agree.

My post was a wholly unnecessary but slightly amusing double entendre based on your misspelling of "desert" as "dessert."


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> We used lube. The problem was it’s kinda insulting to HAVE to use it when wife is a young healthy 20-something year old. Also, there were times when the lube dried out during and it started to really hurt and having to reapply is not sexy...


Eh, don't feel bad. I've had sex without lube with my wife twice in 35 years. I should have purchased a 55 gallon drum year-one and been done with it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Eh, don't feel bad. I've had sex without lube with my wife twice in 35 years. I should have purchased a 55 gallon drum year-one and been done with it.


Ouch!!??:surprise:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Yeah, we've been through this before. This is not something that happened "biologically." That sort of thing happens gradually over time. It happened instantaneously the moment the light bulb came on and I finally faced with open eyes exactly what I was dealing with. In fact, in the last couple years before the switch being instantaneously flipped into the oh eff eff position, my desire had actually been growing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This may be an unrelated thought (I’m not jumping to any conclusions with y’all as I do not know enough to do that). But the mind is incredibly skilled at justifying and explaining pretty much anything to fit a narrative that one is most content with and it’s not always necessarily the reality. It will ‘fight’ to the last breath that it could be anything biological because this is essentially the ‘man’s highest pride’.

I think decline in sex drive is much more complicated than high or low T levels. Also, I think a man can feel with his mind like he really wants to have sex but the body is not always playing along or is like “nah, not so keen to start up anything”. Then explain it away with “why should I, if I’m only getting X and Y and and not other stuff”. 

I do think it’s more complex and there’s a bit of an interplay involved between various things and perhaps a ‘sex nazi wife syndrome’ also plays a part.

It would be interesting to hear from men (or women) who have a highly sexual or ‘HD’ wife; I think those women complain that their husband stops wanting to have sex with them all the same. So I’m not sure how much that helps in the long term.

I think this particular issue is just like with anything else in the marriage: something is bothering you enough, then be proactive, make an issue out of it, raise it with the spouse, make her understand it’s bothering you. If you need to, ‘destabilise’ or whatever it’s called around here. 

Otherwise it can be like a no win situation for men: on the one hand, too proud to admit sex desire is waning and on the other hand also too proud to make an issue out of it with the spouse.

All that’s left is acceptance; but true acceptance doesn’t involve complaining about it behind her back. (Not that it doesn’t help or that I don’t have sympathy for it - I really do; just sometimes I think someone needs to smack you guys from time to time to get you out of this state and these pity parties and look at the positive things . But don’t do that to me when it’s my turn to complain! )


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I will say that when I do give in to her initiation, she initiates 99% of the time now, it is off the charts good.

We just burned a damn hole in the bed!


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> I will say that when I do give in to her initiation, she initiates 99% of the time now, it is off the charts good.
> 
> We just burned a damn hole in the bed!


Indeed.
When my wife decides it's time to get down, she's a force of nature and there's no stopping her.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

> Who here has lost sexual interest in your spouse?


Nobody on here better not have ever had sexual interest in my spouse. :rofl:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BruceBanner said:


> Nobody on here better not have ever had sexual interest in my spouse. :rofl:


BAM!:laugh:


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## Lucky18 (May 13, 2019)

I feel you. It’s truly devastating we hardly ever do the deed. Im only interested In having other men crave me. Now that I have one whom I’ve trained and drained i can barely look at him nude. I need several men physically but can only handle one mentally


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm not sure how I can lose sexual interest in my wife when I regularly see her with a tight top and no bra... and she's taken sex off the table... :frown2:

Seriously, what I don't understand in the title of the post - Who here has lost sexual interest in your spouse? - do you mean "forever"???


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I am starting to think about the notion of companionate marriage.


Not sure how old you are, but why? It's one of the most depressing thoughts ever and the reason I'm leaving...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not sure how I can lose sexual interest in my wife when I regularly see her with a tight top and no bra... and she's taken sex off the table... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" ></a>
> 
> Seriously, what I don't understand in the title of the post - Who here has lost sexual interest in your spouse? - do you mean "forever"???


You confuse me...

Aren't you divorcing soon?

Didn't your wife lose interest in all sex with your forever? So why are you posting like it's not a thing that happens?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Aren't you divorcing soon?


Yes!



Livvie said:


> Didn't your wife lose interest in all sex with your forever?


Yes!



Livvie said:


> So why are you posting like it's not a thing that happens?


Sorry if I confuse you... it is happening, but I'm still attracted to my wife. And I'm still in the house and our daily routines haven't changed... so, I still see her in tight tops... she is not trying to hide anything. It doesn't mean we are man and wife or that we are having sex... for the moment, she is pretending nothing is happening, but that's the way she is... :laugh:

I agree that the way I talk about her can give the impression that we are still together...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > Aren't you divorcing soon?
> ...


Gotcha. Sorry your situation is so hard. Hopefully you will be actually separating soon so you can start moving on emotionally.

I left a 17 year marriage because of mistreatment (that he refused to stop), but my attraction to him left with the mistreatment.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> Can't offer much here. I have always been attracted to my wife since day one. I'll admit when the kids were young and she was drained at the end of each day we
> lost some of our quality time. With the empty nest phase of life arriving upon us, we are at it like teenagers and recognize the importance of keeping all phases of
> our relationship strong. I've become more self aware of my actions as a person, husband, and lover which has helped us out a lot as well.
> 
> ...



i am similar. I have found that you can train yourself to be arroused/turned on by your spouse. They do not need to be a ten....you just have to think of them as such


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Cletus said:


> I still find my wife sexually attractive, but I'm not very interested in having sex with her.
> 
> I'm having a hard time getting past feeling like I've been thrown in the back of the patrol car wearing the plastic handcuffs every time things get started.
> 
> ...


 @Cletus I have been thinking about this post since you made it. Typed a few responses and then deleted them (never hit post). A lot of what you say resonates with me, although I have not lost interest in my wife. 

One dynamic that I can point to in my marriage (that did not happen until about a year or so ago) is that when there is something that I find that increases my pleasure during intimacy that just happens to make no difference to my wife, she now encourages me to do those things. BUT she also says I have to take responsibility to make that happen as opposed to asking her to do it or make that decision. 

It is as if she wants to focus on her own pleasure and it is disruptive for her to have to worry about something I may or may not want during foreplay or during intercourse. My wife tends to get very frustrated if I am talking or asking questions once she is aroused because a subtle discussion can cause her to loose her mojo, and she really struggles to get it back sometimes when that happens. If she is able to focus on what feels good for her, generally speaking that is good for me too. But while that can be a bit one-sided for her there are opportunities I have to be selfish and spice things up a bit from my perspective. 

This however involved a discussion afterwards one time where I told her, "I really like it when we do 'this' or 'that' sometimes." My purpose was to encourage her to take the initiative to make those things happen or if it was OK for me to ask for that during. But what surprised me is she said that certain things that I liked did not really make much of a difference for her experience and that it was OK for me to do that anytime I wanted. She asked me to just take responsibility for those things and just do them with her whenever I wanted and to not ask or expect her to initiate those things. 

Part of me felt let down that it was as if she did not care about certain small nuances that made a big difference for me, but at the same time she lets me be in complete control of those things. It actually works out pretty well. It is as if we both get to be a little selfish and focus on ourselves during lovemaking, and somehow sharing that selfishness together in a mutual way just works. 

She does not like when I focus my efforts on her to try and maximize her pleasure (with rare exceptions), and I am now enjoying being selfish with some of the things I like. Here are a few generic examples of that just for illustrative purposes: 



Husband has a preference for lights on or off that sometimes changes. The wife enjoys it just the same the either way but does not want to be made responsible for knowing if the lights should be on or off.
Husband enjoys trying different brands of lube for a variety of sensations, but to the wife this make not difference as long as the lube is applied same as always. She just does not want to be responsible for finding or buying different types of lube.
Husband has a preference for certain sexual enhancers such as the recreational use of viagra. Meanwhile the wife is OK with that but she does not want to be responsible for asking her husband to take one beforehand.
Husband wants to role play Star Wars and setup the bedroom and cosplay as if he a training to be a Jedi sex master. The wife is like whatever as long as she is treated like a princess that can demand whatever she wants from her Jedi warrior. She just does not want to pick out costumes.

My point I am making here is that if your wife has a strong set of preferences that she has set about what she wants during sex... well you should be able to do the same for yourself. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

You guys are overthinking this.

I think most problems arise because of a misunderstanding of how sexual dynamic is supposed to work (and has been working for millennia).

The majority of wimmins don’t respond well if you ask them questions what they like or if you ask them ‘do you want this or do you want that’.
And sorry to say but new feminism is not doing it any favours.

Sex is something that was always ‘done to them’, no questions asked and their pleasure comes from his pleasure mainly (she will not admit it) und pursuing something he wants, sometimes aggressively (but obviously not in a rapey way, unless you tried it before and it worked...in which case you should ‘rape away’, within a consented type of framework...).

What I mean is, why I think most marriages go downhill sexually (apart from all other baggage that accumulates) is that over time, men seem to tend to want to ‘equalise’ the dynamic and the pursuing stops which is a massive killer for the woman; e.g. ‘I initiate = you should initiate’ ‘I try to find ways to turn you on = you should find ways to turn ME on otherwise why do I bother all the time?’ and so on. 

Have you read the classic ‘Green Eggs and Ham’ by Seuss? (It’s about this sexual predator Sam-I-Am who is trying to manipulate an unnamed character, a woman probably, into trying out new sexual stuff that she has this prejudice of not wanting to try even though she can’t possibly know whether she’ll like it or not...).

Anyway, I think it has a lot of wisdom in it (my kids would agree). And not just because in the end she loved it and was grateful...You have to be persistent but not in a whiny way. It’s also easier to get her to try something new and ‘ween her onto it’ once she’s got her motor going. There’s usually no point at all discussing something beforehand to try because she’s more likely to say no whatever it is you suggest. 

So get her going in whatever standard way you normally do it, then go insane on her with some kinky **** once she’s over that ‘I was born a nun’ mindset. She is more likely to let you do it. Then wonder afterwards what the **** just happened and wanting you to push for more next time...

And the catch is - and that’s very important - *she will only do it again if she felt that it was something that rocked your world *. You have to understand that even though the woman’s role is more passive in that sense (I don’t like that word), she will still feel ‘responsible’ if you are trying something new ON her, but she somehow got the feeling it wasn’t the bestest thing you ever did....

Other things that help a lot getting your woman bit excited: be passionate about something, don’t hang around at home too much, don’t have routines, have a life/other friends, be interesting. She is not your mother who is responsible to make you feel this or that. Be persistent and don’t avoid conflict if something is important to you. Obviously don’t be an arsehole either. Just know that there’s a reason things get stale; and it’s not all her fault due to being disinterested. She might have become disinterested for a reason.

Edit: I’m not saying all women will respond to it but majority still seem to be ‘conservative’ in that sense. There are some that are more like these new age dominatrices that get turned on by  -whipping their men and need everything to be ‘equal’ or whatever (which in really means keeping their husband’s balls in their man-purse), so I’m not talking about those types of sexual relationships....

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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> You guys are overthinking this.
> 
> I think most problems arise because of a misunderstanding of how sexual dynamic is supposed to work (and has been working for millennia).
> 
> ...


Hmmmm...
You absolutely DO NOT spring something new on my wife without having discussed it first, no matter how revved up she is. That's just a sure fire way to instantly kill the rev and ensure it will be a long time before the next one comes along.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> InMyPrime said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are overthinking this.
> ...


But, but, but, InMyPrime wrote a long post fixing everyone’s problems....


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Hmmmm...
> 
> You absolutely DO NOT spring something new on my wife without having discussed it first, no matter how revved up she is. That's just a sure fire way to instantly kill the rev and ensure it will be a long time before the next one comes along.



Then you need to work more on your persuasion powers: “honey, but you wanted me to bring my friend Alejuandro to fill up the rest of you properly, remember we discussed it?”

Once you have to plan sex like you plan a meeting agenda, you can forget about it! (You can plan ‘sex dates’, sure, it definitely helps some women but you can never plan what’s on the menu. Sounds like she ‘cant let go’ and needs to be in control all the time. At least her mind thinks that. Or maybe she had bad experiences in the past when she did try to be ‘spontaneous’. 
The only way to enjoy it is to ‘loose yourself’ and the best thing about committed relationships is that you can loose yourself while safe in the knowledge that you won’t be harmed (unless you requested to be a little harmed...).

You can try another thing, say to her: “why don’t you let me try stuff today, it’s my birthday after all (especially if it isn’t). You can always stop me but I’m horny as a dog and always wanted to do this/that to you...”

Then it’s kind of half way. The more you do it the less you will need to tell her in advance what it is you are going to be doing because she will feel comfortable enough to trust you...

Even if she says afterwards that it wasn’t her favourite thing, you have to tell her that it made your day or whatever. Or buy her flowers. 

I think a lot of women feel a lot of pressure to need to enjoy everything (and to climax every time, otherwise husband will pester them to no end “well why didn’t you cum then?”). You can definitely ‘learn’ to like stuff and you can ‘ween women’ onto liking stuff. My wife disliked a lot of things and vowed never to try them...Now it is me who is the less adventurous one and I can’t keep up fast enough. Everyone has different thresholds though. It you are always more likely to try new things once you are horny. Not before! That’s when their ‘I should be a proper girl, and not a dirty *****’ doing the dominant thinking.

Also, I’m only relating what worked for me from experience and what I observe worked for others too. It’s not so difficult to put 2 and 2 together, especially when you see what crazy stuff those apparently ‘LD’ women get up to when they have affairs or are on ‘new relationship hormones’.

Gotta go. Maybe HD women need to switch husbands with LD women for a weekend or so and practice a bit 


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> Then you need to work more on your persuasion powers: “honey, but you wanted me to bring my friend Alejuandro to fill up the rest of you properly, remember we discussed it?”
> 
> Once you have to plan sex like you plan a meeting agenda, you can forget about it! (You can plan ‘sex dates’, sure, it definitely helps some women but you can never plan what’s on the menu. Sounds like she ‘cant let go’ and needs to be in control all the time. At least her mind thinks that. Or maybe she had bad experiences in the past when she did try to be ‘spontaneous’.
> The only way to enjoy it is to ‘loose yourself’ and the best thing about committed relationships is that you can loose yourself while safe in the knowledge that you won’t be harmed (unless you requested to be a little harmed...).
> ...


Your ability to extrapolate and over generalize never ceases to amaze me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

OnTheFly said:


> But, but, but, InMyPrime wrote a long post fixing everyone’s problems....



Yeah, it’s fine. I know my tone was flippant. It was deliberate...I don’t know how to motivate people without sounding patronising - you can take it or leave it. Nothing is obligatory!!
The next step is really doing home visits and showing stuff 
But I certainly don’t mean to sound like ‘I know stuff because my wife now loves the ****ing, even though she didn’t used to as much, and you are all a bunch of idiots’. I know it’s hard and there’s a LOT of resistance and I feel like I have been there myself. Even though everyone is different, there are SOME common mistakes one can try and avoid and there’s a bit of a common theme too.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Your ability to extrapolate and over generalize never ceases to amaze me.



Seriously: none of what i write is directed at you or anyone in particular. Even though I quoted you. Try not to take it personally. I am just saying what is LIKELY to happen generally and what I observe because that’s what tends to happen. Of course it is a generalisation. I don’t have time to go into everyone’s situation in depth. I have 3 jobs. There could be many other reasons; of course. But getting defensive isn’t gonna change a thing. It’s always easier to work on yourself rather than change someone so there’s no point of me writing how she could do or be this or that instead, because she isn’t gonna. She COULD however respond differently if YOU try to be different or do different things. Whoever said that the sign of insanity is trying the same thing but expecting a different result.

Unless the point of this thread is finding acceptance. In which case then definitely ignore everything I say. I know I could not live without great sex so when I read posts like in this thread, I’m immediately thinking ‘how can this be fixed’. But if we are not trying to fix anything, then it’s a moot point.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Just one last thing (I know you guys are sick of me). I think it’s truly a shame that some women don’t get to experience the feeling of just ‘completely loosing’ yourself in sex. Somehow, I feel there’s a feeling that unless one stays incomplete control, enjoyment can not be guaranteed whereas it is completely the other way around...Some of the most explosive experiences happen when you can just say to yourself: “i trust him completely and will let him take me to any place he wants” and if it doesn’t turn out well, so what? What’s the worst thing that can happen? A bit of embarrassment, have a laugh about it together, maybe some anal or jaw soreness or have a shower afterwards or whatever...nothing is a big deal. Great sex is completely psychological.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

so, it looks like I'm not the only one to have a (soon to be ex) complicated wife... I'm glad I don't have to put up with that anymore... :laugh:



badsanta said:


> [*]Husband wants to role play Star Wars and setup the bedroom and cosplay as if he a training to be a Jedi sex master. The wife is like whatever as long as she is treated like a princess that can demand whatever she wants from her Jedi warrior. She just does not want to pick out costumes.


That made me giggle...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> This may be an unrelated thought (I’m not jumping to any conclusions with y’all as I do not know enough to do that). But the mind is incredibly skilled at justifying and explaining pretty much anything to fit a narrative that one is most content with and it’s not always necessarily the reality. It will ‘fight’ to the last breath that it could be anything biological because this is essentially the ‘man’s highest pride’.
> 
> I think decline in sex drive is much more complicated than high or low T levels. Also, I think a man can feel with his mind like he really wants to have sex but the body is not always playing along or is like “nah, not so keen to start up anything”. Then explain it away with “why should I, if I’m only getting X and Y and and not other stuff”.


There's no doubt that part of the issue is declining sex drive. Whereas sex before under any circumstances was better than no sex at all, the balance of that equation has shifted to the other side of the equals sign. Now the statement is closer to "why have lackluster sex when I can have just as satisfying time by myself?"

So far, the body hasn't failed me in the sex department yet. I expect that day is now sooner rather than later, but it has not yet arrived. 



> I think this particular issue is just like with anything else in the marriage: something is bothering you enough, then be proactive, make an issue out of it, raise it with the spouse, make her understand it’s bothering you. If you need to, ‘destabilise’ or whatever it’s called around here.


I'm not sure how much more of an issue I can make out of it. I almost destroyed my marriage over it 15 years ago. It was overcoming my sense of entitlement to more and my acceptance of my partner "as is" that kept us together - but it also put out the last flame of hope that it would ever change. That has directly led to my current apathy. 



> All that’s left is acceptance; but true acceptance doesn’t involve complaining about it behind her back.


I'm not sure what I think about this. I have accepted my partner for who she is. Maybe I'm still working on accepting MY inevitable reaction to that reality.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BruceBanner said:


> Nobody on here better not have ever had sexual interest in my spouse. :rofl:


Why, you wouldn't like us when we're horny?


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

InMyPrime said:


> Just one last thing (I know you guys are sick of me). I think it’s truly a shame that some women don’t get to experience the feeling of just ‘completely loosing’ yourself in sex. Somehow, I feel there’s a feeling that unless one stays incomplete control, enjoyment can not be guaranteed whereas it is completely the other way around...Some of the most explosive experiences happen when you can just say to yourself: “i trust him completely and will let him take me to any place he wants” and if it doesn’t turn out well, so what? What’s the worst thing that can happen?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do agree with the overall tone of what you're trying to convey. And I would definitely respond in the way you predict for the most part, except for that one thing that if not done properly or planned for you can end up needing surgery to fix the damage. And yes, I've had patients with that issue. So, if that's the thing you want to surprise your wife with, I'd recommend you don't. :laugh:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> Not sure how old you are, but why? It's one of the most depressing thoughts ever and the reason I'm leaving...


Because I have no interest in breaking up an otherwise successful marriage over something I've already managed to navigate for 3 1/2 decades. 

I have a good partner, who knows my quirks, shortcomings, and failures. Who has accepted me at my worst and vice versa. I'm not even sure that I would wade back into the dating pool were I suddenly single again. I have so much to lose and so relatively little to gain. Why bother? 

Most marriages eventually get there anyway. Why not get ahead of the curve?


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> You guys are overthinking this.
> 
> The majority of wimmins don’t respond well if you ask them questions what they like or if you ask them ‘do you want this or do you want that’.
> 
> Other things that help a lot getting your woman bit excited: be passionate about something, don’t hang around at home too much, don’t have routines, have a life/other friends, be interesting. She is not your mother who is responsible to make you feel this or that. Be persistent and don’t avoid conflict if something is important to you. Obviously don’t be an arsehole either. Just know that there’s a reason things get stale; and it’s not all her fault due to being disinterested. She might have become disinterested for a reason.



My wife’s mindset is “I like sex a lot... just don’t make talk about.” I made the mistake of asking that once and she had a mini panic attack. So I’m left to operate with not much feedback.

Ester Perel talks a lot about the domestication of men. While needed in a marriage it is often a desire killer. You can’t solve the dichotomy, just have to manage it by doing what this poster said which is have a life outside the home and be desirable. If other women notice and she sees that even better.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

badsanta said:


> @Cletus I have been thinking about this post since you made it. Typed a few responses and then deleted them (never hit post). A lot of what you say resonates with me, although I have not lost interest in my wife.
> 
> One dynamic that I can point to in my marriage (that did not happen until about a year or so ago) is that when there is something that I find that increases my pleasure during intimacy that just happens to make no difference to my wife, she now encourages me to do those things. BUT she also says I have to take responsibility to make that happen as opposed to asking her to do it or make that decision.


Thanks for the well considered discussion.

This only works with a partner who lacks aversion to what you're proposing.

If she finds oral sex disgusting, giving or receiving, there is no taking responsibility for making it happen. 
If she doesn't like to be touched sexually, then the only thing you can do is stop. 
If a mouth on her body anywhere below the neck throws her into a minor panic or tight-lipped resignation, there is no satisfaction for either or you.
If she will only grudgingly engage in anything other than missionary sex, with little foreplay, and is clearly distressed by the introduction of anything outside of her very limited comfort zone, then everything that you attempt to take responsibility for starts to feel like coercion. Because the underlying attitude isn't "meh", it's active dislike or disgust.

I have a spouse who likes one thing in the bedroom - missionary PIV. She will do a small number of other things on occasion, but the "this is a sacrifice for you" vibe becomes a boner killer, eventually.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> I am HD and lost sexual interest in my first (LD) wife after many years of her avoiding and denying me sex. I didn't lose interest in sex, just _sex with her_, so that's the point where I decided to move on.


This. My ex tried to initiate after YEARS of no sex, probably as some attempt to change my mind about leaving. It made me physically I'll. There was just too much damage. Ironically, he was huffy and affronted when I turned him down.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> I do agree with the overall tone of what you're trying to convey. And I would definitely respond in the way you predict for the most part, except for that one thing that if not done properly or planned for you can end up needing surgery to fix the damage. And yes, I've had patients with that issue. So, if that's the thing you want to surprise your wife with, I'd recommend you don't. :laugh:



Well, you obviously need a lot of warmup. Have a ‘smaller’ guy on stand by to warm up your wife before you insert all of your 11 inches into that tight space...

When I talk to my wife about it (that so many wives don’t seem to ‘put out’ easily or without much resistance or just die in the bedroom), the first thing she says is ‘you know, lots of men are quite terrible in bed so it’s probably that’. I don’t know how she knows that - it’s not like she tried as far as I know but whatever (we are each others’ first and only). 

I do think on balance it’s more complicated. But in practice, all you can do is address the guys; as a poster on this forum, you can’t ask for wife’s number and sort it out with her instead! (“Hey, why are you not ****ing your husband enthusiastically? Do you realise what you are doing to both of you?”).

I must have been pretty rubbish myself. But then I don’t think I alone deserve credit for her change; pretty sure something changed in her too or she decided to change whatever it is. I don’t know what exactly. Probably a combination of things. But I was at one point or few points ready to leave. Ok I can be dramatic and could potentially leave over not having enough ketchup in the house, but as soon as i got the feeling that i was becoming a human wallet, I went for it and confronted the problem with all my energy until I thought that she got it.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

aaarghdub said:


> My wife’s mindset is “I like sex a lot... just don’t make talk about.” I made the mistake of asking that once and she had a mini panic attack. So I’m left to operate with not much feedback.


Does your wife have a long lost sister in Canada?

This makes for a very long learning curve......ask me how I know, haha


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> Just one last thing (I know you guys are sick of me). I think it’s truly a shame that some women don’t get to experience the feeling of just ‘*completely loosing*’ yourself in sex. Somehow, I feel there’s a feeling that unless one stays incomplete control, enjoyment can not be guaranteed whereas it is completely the other way around...Some of the most explosive experiences happen when you can just say to yourself: “i trust him completely and will let him take me to any place he wants” and if it doesn’t turn out well, so what? What’s the worst thing that can happen? A bit of embarrassment, have a laugh about it together, maybe some anal or jaw soreness or have a shower afterwards or whatever...nothing is a big deal. Great sex is completely psychological.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


hmmm, ponder, ponder - is he being funny, is he being clever or is he being British? Um, I'm pretty sure Brits know the difference between lose and loose. Then, again, you like ketchup so maybe you're not a Brit at all! 

Just kidding you. You and your wife have found paradise on earth and it is due to both of you working to develop that relationship. My hat's off to the both of you!:smthumbup:


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Because I have no interest in breaking up an otherwise successful marriage over something I've already managed to navigate for 3 1/2 decades.


I still don't know how old you are, but I can guess from the 3 1/2 decades remark. To me, having to navigate an issue for 35 years doesn't point to a very successful marriage, despite all the other positive aspects. I guess we all have different degrees of tolerance. I wouldn't recommend to go "sexless"... this is were the detaching starts, with all the consequences. 

Regarding dating again, you wouldn't have to do that. Personally, I will just enjoy the freedom... no more chained to a woman who's made my life miserable, albeit not on purpose... :laugh:


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

My skin was once the stuff of legends, thick and impenetrable.

The winds of war, of failure, of angry children, ditto spouse, wore it thin.

Later in life came a real health scare, one radioactive, a tragedy for one with a warrior mind.

I fought that off, successfully, only to lose more skin. 

I learned, it was seared into me...I gained fear. 

I am no longer bullet proof, will not be that...right up to my final end. That was my wish, now dashed.

I now find it hard to take in/on any criticism, earned or not; am now, thin skinned.

It is 'not' usually, truly earned. 

Yet, it yet arrives, replete with barbs, barbed words.

It is a known fact that our skin thins, loses tone, gains wrinkles and age spots as we age.

Our brains age too, except at some point they regress back to some teenage year.

Hah, I have arrived.

I await for my body to follow suit.
Hah!





[THM]- The Host, RD....


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> I still don't know how old you are, but I can guess from the 3 1/2 decades remark. To me, having to navigate an issue for 35 years doesn't point to a very successful marriage, despite all the other positive aspects. I guess we all have different degrees of tolerance. I wouldn't recommend to go "sexless"... this is were the detaching starts, with all the consequences.
> 
> Regarding dating again, you wouldn't have to do that. Personally, I will just enjoy the freedom... no more chained to *a woman who's made my life miserable, albeit not on purpose*... :laugh:


If not her purpose, whose?

Who made her, this way?

Who made you, this way?

Who or what?

We made, not ourselves.

I detest bullies.
Uh, oh....





unsigned- oh, my..,,


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Thanks for the well considered discussion.
> 
> This only works with a partner who lacks aversion to what you're proposing.
> 
> ...



Urrgh. That’s depressing. Has it always been like that or is this a ‘new’ acquired taste that happened with age or over time?

It seems to me that in practice, the difference between a happy sex life and an absolute miserable one is actually quite small. 
What would it take for you to actually feel everything was fine in that department? Something it’s just a small tweak in attitude or frequency or just a reaction (or lack of it). And suddenly everything seems fine.

Also coercion does not always need to be such a negative thing...Women are meant to ‘resist’ sometimes. Sometimes my wife lies there waiting with trepidation what I might do to her and I guess if I really stretched......my imagination, i could maybe think of myself as being ‘coercive’ too in that moment (since none of it was asked of me, I just go for it) but it’s ok because in the end things usually work out for everyone’s benefit...Even neighbours’...if we leave the lights on....And other times it’s less successful...Which is also ok. 

Was she abused or a rape victim or something like that? In which case you need a different approach and ‘coercion’ is probably not a good idea...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> hmmm, ponder, ponder - is he being funny, is he being clever or is he being British? Um, I'm pretty sure Brits know the difference between lose and loose. Then, again, you like ketchup so maybe you're not a Brit at all!
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding you. You and your wife have found paradise on earth and it is due to both of you working to develop that relationship. My hat's off to the both of you!:smthumbup:



I don’t know what it’s due to. We did have attraction to each other to begin with (although I think I was attracted to her more initially, speaking purely from a physical point of view).
Things did get a bit stale over some periods, other periods we had some trust issues but I think the basis for attraction was always there which maybe some marriages are missing? In which case it’s not so straightforward.

There’s no excuse for spelling mistakes...
I always liked ketchup; as long as there’s ketchup I can skip oral for one day...Or best thing is to combine ketchup with oral...ok I better stop before it gets too kinky 


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Cletus said:


> > @Cletus I have been thinking about this post since you made it. Typed a few responses and then deleted them (never hit post). A lot of what you say resonates with me, although I have not lost interest in my wife.
> >
> > One dynamic that I can point to in my marriage (that did not happen until about a year or so ago) is that when there is something that I find that increases my pleasure during intimacy that just happens to make no difference to my wife, she now encourages me to do those things. BUT she also says I have to take responsibility to make that happen as opposed to asking her to do it or make that decision.
> 
> ...


I *bolded the things above that are limitations to how your wife wants to be touched and/or stimulated.* It is fairly obvious (yet admittedly problematic) that all she wants or needs is missionary PIV to feel satisfied. So in regards to pleasing your wife, the job is easily done and no need to poke, pinch, pull, rub, lick, kiss, or suck anywhere else. As you say she reacts with sexual disgust.

There is one thing that jumps out at me...



> I have a spouse who likes one thing in the bedroom - missionary PIV. *She will do a small number of other things on occasion, but the "this is a sacrifice for you" vibe becomes a boner killer, eventually.*


Generally speaking wives do find validation in pleasing their husbands. I would suggest you try and work on this area.... But I am very aware that sometimes there may be a passive aggressive behavior towards things you might like that she does not. As in she may purposely sabotage things you like as a way to make you dislike them by giving you a really lame attitude. 

If you @Cletus are at a turning point where you do not like having sex with her and that seriously bothers you, then just be straight and tell her that. Tell her that we she turns over and does not want to be with you that you find yourself relieved. Explain that you have grown exhausted of her sexual disgust towards herself and that you can not tolerate it anymore. Explain that she need to be comfortable and confident about herself and explain how beautiful and attractive that you find your wife. Tell her that you are happy to help her work on those things for her to be more confident, and if she chooses to withdraw from that it will cause you to do the same in terms of your attitude about wanting to be around her. 

I know... wash, rinse, and repeat. But if you come from a place of sincerely NOT caring one way or the other then you have the power now. 

I focused a ton of effort on building my wife's self confidence. And that has helped transition from the notion of her feeling used more towards her feeling appreciated by my desire for her. Doing that was sometimes an ugly process as some women no matter how attractive they are somehow fool themselves into thinking their own bodies are disgusting. The sexual disgust you encounter may NOT be sexual disgust. It could just be low self esteem and poor self image that your wife struggles with when the two of you get close.

I don't know if that will help you. But taking this approach can't hurt, especially if you confront your wife from a viewpoint that you will no longer tolerate her having low self confidence about herself or her body image. As always easier said than done... Almost like performing an exorcism. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

We're married now for over twenty five years and my interest is as high as ever. My wife almost never refuses a reasonable request so I'd say her interest is good. In fact, she's encouraging me often when I don't expect it. Perimenopause is like a fantastic reward to a Catholic marriage after using no artificial birth control and having many more children than the typical family. In some ways, fertility could be a real challenge and tested my faith, self control, and patience hundreds of times.

I was just a kid when we married with almost no concept of what sexy was, outside my stupid fumblings with girls or via porn (how foolish I was). Everything truly exciting and sexy I learned with my wife. I'd say now I am almost obsessed with her lips, curves, curly brown hair, etc... I could write a book of her features I rail against porn on here in part because I truly believe that weeding it out has allowed me to focus on HER and I think my wife truly is gorgeous enough to deserve 100% interest and attention, which I've done my best to give her.

So, despite a marriage that has been fraught with difficulty (health issues, many babies, many teenagers, financial stress, bad tempers on both our parts).. the sex and intimacy has always been a pretty steady remedy and force to sort of hold us together.

I've got to add though, that I think you can't cheat it. Enjoying the sex without the fertility with it.... Haven't really done that. I think you have to kind of go "all in" to make marriage work long term. I think also this is why porn doesn't work...think you have to be 100% devoted and faithful. Of course, my wife has been 100% "in" these past twenty five years and there is nothing she hasn't sacrificed for our family.

So my experience: put 100% of yourself into marriage and it's fully worth it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> We're married now for over twenty five years and my interest is as high as ever. My wife almost never refuses a reasonable request so I'd say her interest is good. In fact, she's encouraging me often when I don't expect it. Perimenopause is like a fantastic reward to a Catholic marriage after using no artificial birth control and having many more children than the typical family. In some ways, fertility could be a real challenge and tested my faith, self control, and patience hundreds of times.
> 
> I was just a kid when we married with almost no concept of what sexy was, outside my stupid fumblings with girls or via porn (how foolish I was). Everything truly exciting and sexy I learned with my wife. I'd say now I am almost obsessed with her lips, curves, curly brown hair, etc... I could write a book of her features I rail against porn on here in part because I truly believe that weeding it out has allowed me to focus on HER and I think my wife truly is gorgeous enough to deserve 100% interest and attention, which I've done my best to give her.
> 
> ...




There’s porn for married people too you know? 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

It’s in the category “Nagging Wife gone wild....with her criticisms”, “Cuckold Husband Swallows....mainly his pride” and “Threesome with your STBXW and her attorney: or taking you hard: financially, to the cleaners”.

Sorry my imagination is a bit rusty...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

InMyPrime said:


> There’s porn for married people too you know?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So that is your response to @CatholicDad post ... :scratchhead:


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> We're married now for over twenty five years and my interest is as high as ever. My wife almost never refuses a reasonable request so I'd say her interest is good. In fact, she's encouraging me often when I don't expect it. Perimenopause is like a fantastic reward to a Catholic marriage after using no artificial birth control and having many more children than the typical family. In some ways, fertility could be a real challenge and tested my faith, self control, and patience hundreds of times.
> 
> I was just a kid when we married with almost no concept of what sexy was, outside my stupid fumblings with girls or via porn (how foolish I was). Everything truly exciting and sexy I learned with my wife. I'd say now I am almost obsessed with her lips, curves, curly brown hair, etc... I could write a book of her features I rail against porn on here in part because I truly believe that weeding it out has allowed me to focus on HER and I think my wife truly is gorgeous enough to deserve 100% interest and attention, which I've done my best to give her.
> 
> ...


Really? You don't dig sex without fertility?

Sex is a gift and should be shared/enjoyed as such. Funny thing, it feels the same whether you're conceiving or not. 

Ironically, the rest of your post indicates you _should _be enjoying it, even without the fertility. You say it has been a remedy and a force to hold you together. So once fertility wanes, sex is no longer such a force for you? You should be opening a whole new chapter in your sexual lives where you get that bonding without the stress of planning for another pregnancy and all the effort and cost that comes with it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> I've got to add though, that I think you can't cheat it. Enjoying the sex without the fertility with it.... Haven't really done that.



Yeah....


I kinda gotta wonder how that works for the millions of people like my mother who couldn't conceive (I am adopted).

I guess they just have crappy cheat sex?

How ridiculous and predictable.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

What happens to fertility when it goes in da bootey...? Is this fraud upon?
To be honest, every time I orgasm without corresponding eggs in vicinity, it’s like holocaust all over again.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Yep, I had a hysterectomy due to cancer. My poor hubby just gets sloppy cheat sex now.....


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Really? You don't dig sex without fertility?


I think @CatholicDad was referring to cheating early in the marriage and having sex with birth control = sex without fertility. I think he sees menopause as a blessing as all the fertility in his marriage challenged his faith.

I've heard similar sentiments from other Catholics in that if you use birth control in the marriage, then it puts up a barrier from a couple being able to commune as one. Obviously menopause is not seen as a form of artificial birth control but more so a natural one.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

duplicate - deleted


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

After much thought over the years...this is definitely me. When married I lost attraction to my wife and it never came back, I handled it the wrong way. I got my needs met elsewhere. In retrospect my attraction was probably never there for my wife. I was doing the thing that young men do, find yourself a good girl, settle down and get married. Problem was she was the opposite of whom I was with before her in literally every way. We have a strong friendship, and we love our kids, but thats all there is to it. I spent years torturing myself trying to force myself to feel something that wasn't there, and I received a LOT of bad advice in the process, that only caused more pain for both her and I. In the end I decided it was unfair to both of us, and I feel like we are both happier now because of it....although at first she didn't see it way.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

badsanta said:


> I think @CatholicDad was referring to cheating early in the marriage and having sex with birth control = sex without fertility. I think he sees menopause as a blessing as all the fertility in his marriage challenged his faith.
> 
> I've heard similar sentiments from other Catholics in that if you use birth control in the marriage, then it puts up a barrier from a couple being able to commune as one. Obviously menopause is not seen as a form of artificial birth control but more so a natural one.


I recall an earlier post on a different thread where he specifically aligned sex with procreation only; no exception given for how birth control was achieved (as non was given in this post either). So this sounded like an extension of that. By extension, he seemed to be implying that sex without chance of procreation was not biblical and therefor should not be undertaken. He left no option for menopause as a form of "natural" birth control, so if that's the case while I could certainly understand it from my point of view, it didn't seem to jive with his point of view.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

badsanta said:


> Rocky Mountain Yeti said:
> 
> 
> > Really? You don't dig sex without fertility?
> ...


 Yup. It's too badd there is absolutely no biblical basis for this line of thinking.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Yup. It's too badd there is absolutely no biblical basis for this line of thinking.


In my opinion it seems more like a way for the governing body of the church to try and come up with a way to insure future propagation of the Catholic faith... add to that if anyone wants to be married they must also both take a vow to raise their children Catholic. 

Meanwhile the Pope has recently taken a less harsh stance on birth control with regards to the fight against HIV and other STDs. I think it was described as more of a "human problem" that needed to be solved as opposed to a "religious problem" and that in some cases birth control represents the lesser of two evils. Obviously the church can not survive if entire populations are wiped out.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

badsanta said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > Yup. It's too badd there is absolutely no biblical basis for this line of thinking.
> ...


 This is what happens when you let a man in a funny hat add to The Bible at will lol


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> badsanta said:
> 
> 
> > I think @CatholicDad was referring to cheating early in the marriage and having sex with birth control = sex without fertility. I think he sees menopause as a blessing as all the fertility in his marriage challenged his faith.
> ...


If thats the case I'd rather join a monestary than have to raise a village of children just to get some booty.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

The times where I perceived she was braking my trust, where her attraction to someone else was driving a change in her behavior...ya that killed it for me. Had to turn to alcohol to get me in the mood. But we are now well pass that. 

I think sex can be a source of comfort in a time of need for her and a stress reliever. That just isn't the case for me. Sex is the cherry on top, the icing on the cake, of a relationship that is going strong and when I personally, am not stressed out of my mind. Stress kills my libido.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> This is what happens when you let a man in a funny hat add to The Bible at will lol


Surely you realize that it was always men in funny hats who decided what went in the Bible and what got left out?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Surely you realize that it was always men in funny hats who decided what went in the Bible and what got left out?


You do have a point.....lol

Either way, the idea that you cannot prevent pregnancy without sinning is preposterous and found nowhere in the Bible.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Surely you realize that it was always men in funny hats who decided what went in the Bible and what got left out?


And when you add to that William Chester Minor contributed much of what we understand today as the definitions of words in the English Oxford Dictionary ....

...you get a Bible compiled by men in funny hats. If today we don't understand some of the words it uses, it is likely we refer to the definition that was written by a murderous madman while in an insane asylum that cut off his penis!

I think that pretty much puts human nature of the Church today in perspective!!




Badsanta


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

@Cletus, man this is a great topic.

I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm well beyond the place I was when I came here and I was married to a woman who ended up getting anxious if I went to hold her hand or give her a kiss. She didn't just lose sexual interest, the notion creeped her out and made her anxious. There have been times since our divorce that I would love to sit down with the woman and do an autopsy of our sexual dysfunction. It was certainly jarring based on her rather overt sexuality pre marriage, and pre-children.

I've been with my new spouse for 5 years. One married. She was in peri-menopause when we met. But she had a very healthy libido. She is now post-menopausal, and by her own admission has no libido whatsoever. So I suppose we could qualify her as having lost sexual interest in me ... or just interest in sex at all.

I've also come to terms with the fact that at the end of the day, I'm not sexually 'easy' as a partner. Between delayed ejaculation, and bouts of ED as a result of long term medication use, the idea of a 'quickie' with me, died about 15 years ago.

I've posted previously, that I had a number of dating relationships end as a result of my partners discomfort with adjusting to my lack of responsiveness. Basically, they weren't OK with the fact that I could lose myself and get off with them in 7 minutes or less. People get weird about that stuff.

My wife has acknowledged that it can be challenging, and even 5 years later she will often ask, "Am I doing something wrong?" But our ability to communicate, and her lack of taking my non-responsiveness personally, goes a very, very long way with me.

But ... as we both move past the half century mark, I greatly appreciate her willingness to continue to make an effort at preserving our sexual relationship, despite her direct lack of interest in sex. I do imagine that too, will have a lifespan. But as you point out, I take solace in recognizing I have a great partner with whom I just love to be around, clothed or not.

As for me, I definitely have not lost sexual interest in my spouse. But, it has absolutely changed, lessened, in the 5 years we have been together.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I've been thinking about this a lot.


Thank you for your thoughtful and honest response, a lot resonated. 

Stay sassy.


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

Nearly every man looses interest after his orgasm! Roll off and got to sleep.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

leon2100 said:


> Nearly every man looses interest after his orgasm! Roll off and got to sleep.


Not sure about other women, but I lose interest in men completely who lose interest in me after an orgasm.

It’s fine to be all drowsy after having your socks knocked off. But if a man thinks his orgasm is the signal that all the fun and touching is over, he’s not the guy for me.

My best lovers have been the best at afterglow. Which for me means they are very much awake and into me after their O, as well as being ready to give me anything I may still be wanting. They are happy to be awake and alive with me and talk about how awesome the sex was. 

I get what you are saying, but if you think that’s something women who actually like sex are into, I have to disagree.

Maybe women who are happy to have it done and over with are happy to have him get off, then happy to get him off her body so he will sleep now. 

Doesn’t work for me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I don’t know any man that doesn’t lose SEXUAL interest, at least for a few minutes, after an orgasm. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t care or doesn’t do afterglow...It’s just biology. Some maybe are better at pretending. Although not sure how; a limo penis will still be a limp penis after the Big Bang.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not sure about other women, but I lose interest in men completely who lose interest in me after an orgasm.
> 
> It’s fine to be all drowsy after having your socks knocked off. But if a man thinks his orgasm is the signal that all the fun and touching is over, he’s not the guy for me.
> 
> ...


One thing re afterwards that I learned a very long time ago, is don't stop touching afterwards, until both have enjoyed the before, during, and after. 

Since long before M.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure about other women, but I lose interest in men completely who lose interest in me after an orgasm.
> ...


Yes, good lovers seem to understand this. There is a lot of awesome sexual energy still floating around the bed after a good romp. If he doesn’t take advantage of that, I’m not going to be interested in him. It’s one of the best parts of sex and usually turns into more sex.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not sure about other women, but I lose interest in men completely who lose interest in me after an orgasm.
> 
> It’s fine to be all drowsy after having your socks knocked off. But if a man thinks his orgasm is the signal that all the fun and touching is over, he’s not the guy for me.
> 
> ...


Yes! I just don't get the stereotype of guys who finish, roll over, and go to sleep. 
I feel so good after sex, why would I want to go unconscious at that point? I want to milk that good feeling as long as it lasts. Which means touching, cuddling, talking, and especially staring into her eyes. 

Now it's all fine and good to go to sleep after all that, but if you go straight to sleep you skip an important part and deprive yourself of both more good feelings as well as key bonding time.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, good lovers seem to understand this. There is a lot of awesome sexual energy still floating around the bed after a good romp. If he doesn’t take advantage of that, I’m not going to be interested in him. It’s one of the best parts of sex and usually turns into more sex.


My practice is that after the first bout of intercourse it is often nice to take a shower together, to rinse of the sweat, get squeaky clean, and so I can kneel down and stick my tongue in her #*!.... :laugh:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Yes! I just don't get the stereotype of guys who finish, roll over, and go to sleep.
> I feel so good after sex, why would I want to go unconscious at that point? I want to milk that good feeling as long as it lasts. Which means touching, cuddling, talking, and especially staring into her eyes.
> 
> Now it's all fine and good to go to sleep after all that, but if you go straight to sleep you skip an important part and deprive yourself of both more good feelings as well as key bonding time.


:grin2:

Yes that swoony, sexy, yummy, warm awesomeness.....


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Sexual interest after sex? Isn't that what the sex was for?

I mean I'm not hungry after I eat, thats why I eat... duh...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Sexual interest after sex? Isn't that what the sex was for?
> 
> I mean I'm not hungry after I eat, thats why I eat... duh...


'cuz after just one enchilada, I want another. Or a burrito. Or a tamale, Or a taco. Especially a taco> Or maybe just another enchilada, especially if it was a really good enchilada with a super spicy red chile sauce. And a Dos Equis.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Sexual interest after sex? Isn't that what the sex was for?
> 
> I mean I'm not hungry after I eat, thats why I eat... duh...


I’m sure I’m not the only person here who says the more sex I get, the more sex I want


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> 'cuz after just one enchilada, I want another. Or a burrito. Or a tamale, Or a taco. Especially a taco> Or maybe just another enchilada, especially if it was a really good enchilada with a super spicy red chile sauce. And a Dos Equis.




This just means you didn’t eat enough 

Food analogies for sex are always good... you can still be in a good mood after sex (just like after satisfying meal) and continue bonding, without wanting to continue ****ing. When ‘sexual energy’ is all but exhausted, it doesn’t mean you turnover and fall asleep.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> This just means you didn’t eat enough
> 
> Food analogies for sex are always good... you can still be in a good mood after sex (just like after satisfying meal) and continue bonding, without wanting to continue ****ing. When ‘sexual energy’ is all but exhausted, it doesn’t mean you turnover and fall asleep.
> 
> ...


Yep. Spooning makes a fine dessert.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> The majority of wimmins don’t respond well if you ask them questions what they like or if you ask them ‘do you want this or do you want that’.
> And sorry to say but new feminism is not doing it any favours.
> 
> *Sex is something that was always ‘done to them’, no questions asked and their pleasure comes from his pleasure mainly (she will not admit it) *und pursuing something he wants, sometimes aggressively (but obviously not in a rapey way, unless you tried it before and it worked...in which case you should ‘rape away’, within a consented type of framework...).



Sorry, but I have to disagree. Sex is not something that is "done" to women, and I absolutely have my own pleasure that exists entirely independently from his.

Ignoring this is, to my mind, a sure fire way of causing a woman to lose interest in sex. 

More on topic with the OP - I think both my husband and I have lost a lot of interest in each other. He's been ill, I've been stressed out, we're both a lot older now, and neither one of us seems to have much energy left for sex and passion.

I know there are couples that keep the spark alive into their old age, which belies what I'm about to say. But I can't help but wonder if it's really possible to sustain passion throughout a decades long relationship. All these lovely ideals of "fit" and "hot" -- of just looking and being sexually attracted -- who can manage that all the time? It's easy when everything is new or when you are young and full of energy. But so much life gets in the when you've been together for 20+ years.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

wild jade said:


> Sorry, but I have to disagree. Sex is not something that is "done" to women, and I absolutely have my own pleasure that exists entirely independently from his.



Did you notice the past tense I used?


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

wild jade said:


> I know there are couples that keep the spark alive into their old age, which belies what I'm about to say. But I can't help but wonder if it's really possible to sustain passion throughout a decades long relationship. All these lovely ideals of "fit" and "hot" -- of just looking and being sexually attracted -- who can manage that all the time? It's easy when everything is new or when you are young and full of energy. But so much life gets in the when you've been together for 20+ years.


I hear you, we’re going on 28 years, she has physical issues and we both get into our heads often. Sometimes you need to just do it to keep the train on tracks. We’ve had a minor rough patch recently. So this morning, passionate, not so much. Loving, yes. Important, very. We’ll try to up the the passion soon.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Yes! I just don't get the stereotype of guys who finish, roll over, and go to sleep.
> I feel so good after sex, why would I want to go unconscious at that point? I want to milk that good feeling as long as it lasts. Which means touching, cuddling, talking, and especially staring into her eyes.


For me, good sex can come crashing down like a couple of really good bong hits. I mean the sensation is almost exactly the same. It's not that I lose interest in my partner, it's that it can be incredibly difficult to just stay awake. As in I have to fight it with every bit of strength I have left. That usually passes after 5 or 10 minutes, but those minutes can be a huge struggle.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

The only part about this with which I am struggling now is communicating it to my spouse. 

She is getting frustrated now that it's become obvious that our sex life is crashing. 

But how do you tell your spouse that you just can't do it anymore? That the balance between the good you get from sex and the frustration you get from sex has now, and probably forever, shifted to the "don't bother" end of the scale? Especially when your sexual differences have been hashed out over many discussions over many years, and (at least one of you) knows that there is not solution? How do you say "I would rather not have sex with you any more?"

There's nothing new to discuss. There's no solution out there that solves and insoluble problem. There's no magic bullet. So now, when circumstance does ignite my sexual desire, it feels more than a little self-serving to say "Ok, now I'm interested. Sorry about last month." I guess what's becoming clear is that I can now, for the first time, see the functional end of my sex life. And it's soon - very soon.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> The only part about this with which I am struggling now is communicating it to my spouse.
> 
> She is getting frustrated now that it's become obvious that our sex life is crashing.
> 
> ...


If (heaven forbid) something happened to your wife and eventually you moved on to another partner, do you feel you would still be mostly uninterested? If the new partner was far more sexual (in ways you have been missing) than your wife?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> If (heaven forbid) something happened to your wife and eventually you moved on to another partner, do you feel you would still be mostly uninterested? If the new partner was far more sexual (in ways you have been missing) than your wife?


If something happened to my wife, I doubt that I would re-enter the dating world. So someone would have to literally fall into my lap. In which case I would be interested, no doubt. Would I want to invest all of the mental energy required to find a new partner? At this point in my life, I can easily see myself being just as happy alone. No, that's not fatalistic, that's a rational assessment of who I am. 

So sure, I could divorce and probably - if I wanted - improve my sex life. I get that. But as Heinlein put it, TANSTAAFL. 

Right now, it's not really the lack of sex that's bothering me, since I have learned to be "self soothing" anyway, and since right now I am more to blame than she is. It's the hard conversation with the spouse where it becomes articulated and formal - "you no longer interest me sexually, so please go away". Although in all truth, I probably owe her that conversation so she can make the same calculus, even if I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that question too.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > If (heaven forbid) something happened to your wife and eventually you moved on to another partner, do you feel you would still be mostly uninterested? If the new partner was far more sexual (in ways you have been missing) than your wife?
> ...


Yeah that would be a tough conversation.

Does it really have to even be said? 

Like if you just keep avoiding sex won’t she just over time ask for it less? Or maybe you mean it is so much so that you sincerely want to not have to do it anymore, period?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Cletus said:


> Yeah. Careful what you wish for - I have that unicorn that half the population here is looking for - one that can cum from PIV every single time in under 10 minutes - sometimes twice. Turns out that can make for a very unadventurous lover.


Ack. I can see why that would be uninteresting after 35 years. But if that’s what she wants, why not go through the motions for her?


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## CaseyMorgan (Nov 25, 2017)

Wolf1974 said:


> Yes. I completely lost interest in my x wife after I discovered her affair. I honestly considered her a 10 and was obviously blinded by love goggles. Soon After i saw her for what she was, I couldn’t have had sex with her now matter what. My complete loss of trust translated right into the bedroom and I knew that would never recover. Our marriage was over




I have a similar issue which leads to a question. I found out about 3 affairs. One I believe was a texting nasty stuff (very nasty) one I know was physical the third I was told was her just looking for a job and we are not discussing it. The man was asking if she was thinking of him while we were having sex. Don't know how a guy would ask that crap without there being more. She blames them all on me. That I was verbally abusive. While I know I was an angry sob because she refused to work or help with a budget (and I was making 6 figures but we were always broke) I found she had store credits at coach of 3k, tjmax 1500 etc. My question is I'm gonna be 60. I HATE being alone. I love the house I bought. I retired at 52 and have struggled finding something to do. I've tried a lot of hobbies. Nothing gives me a burning desire to get up. She started a business and I have no idea how much she makes. But I'm left to pay all the bills as they are in my name and I don't want to screw up my credit. I don't know if I should just jump ship. She constantly gives me tasks and if I don't do them she becomes a *****. I don't need the stress. I had a job where I have few friends. I don't like the bar scene. I'm just "alive" not living....


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## CaseyMorgan (Nov 25, 2017)

TJW said:


> This was the reason I lost interest in sex with my wife. I knew I was not "safe" and was not "loved". I could have survived her affairs, but the truth of why she chose me as a husband, coupled with her blame-shifting, showed me that I would never be "safe" or "loved" in the bedroom. The marriage ended.




How old were you and how long married? Kids? Happier now? 


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CaseyMorgan said:


> Wolf1974 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. I completely lost interest in my x wife after I discovered her affair. I honestly considered her a 10 and was obviously blinded by love goggles. Soon After i saw her for what she was, I couldn’t have had sex with her now matter what. My complete loss of trust translated right into the bedroom and I knew that would never recover. Our marriage was over
> ...


Try playing chess...I got into that and its a huge time suck. You could literally play and study that game all day and night and still not understand all the intricacies.

Or you could hit the dating scene again, but you think divorce is expensive! Make sure she pays...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CaseyMorgan said:


> I have a similar issue which leads to a question. I found out about 3 affairs. One I believe was a texting nasty stuff (very nasty) one I know was physical the third I was told was her just looking for a job and we are not discussing it. The man was asking if she was thinking of him while we were having sex. Don't know how a guy would ask that crap without there being more. She blames them all on me. That I was verbally abusive. While I know I was an angry sob because she refused to work or help with a budget (and I was making 6 figures but we were always broke) I found she had store credits at coach of 3k, tjmax 1500 etc. My question is I'm gonna be 60. I HATE being alone. I love the house I bought. I retired at 52 and have struggled finding something to do. I've tried a lot of hobbies. Nothing gives me a burning desire to get up. She started a business and I have no idea how much she makes. But I'm left to pay all the bills as they are in my name and I don't want to screw up my credit. I don't know if I should just jump ship. She constantly gives me tasks and if I don't do them she becomes a *****. I don't need the stress. I had a job where I have few friends. I don't like the bar scene. I'm just "alive" not living....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dude,

I'm getting from your post you may want to jump ship, and rightly so.

Unless there are also good times and other positive components tempering these bad times maybe you'd be better off divorcing. The next 20 yrs are going to be miserable and one of you two may crash and burn with the stress anyway.

I rarely offer that concept and never this early but there appears to me anyway a lot of vitriol there.

With a W like you've described and relationship in that description many would split. There must be other nuances unknown for you to remain.

PS I play the guitar, fish, have motorcycle etc as hobbies but those aren't there as prizes for a terrible marriage, that would be tragic, at least to me.

You do have options. Lots of good discussions here on this topic, many experienced good folks.
Retaining one's sanity is priceless.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cletus said:


> For me, good sex can come crashing down like a couple of really good bong hits. I mean the sensation is almost exactly the same. It's not that I lose interest in my partner, it's that it can be incredibly difficult to just stay awake. As in I have to fight it with every bit of strength I have left. That usually passes after 5 or 10 minutes, but those minutes can be a huge struggle.




You have to force yourself to stay awake. Because in those 5-10 minutes, there will definitely be other males taking advantage of your wife. And she will let them. I saw it on National Geographic.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cletus said:


> The only part about this with which I am struggling now is communicating it to my spouse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah ok. Maybe you wouldn’t mind other males...
Well, there is always the deep space to enjoy...
But, if she suddenly decided to be more adventurous, would you still care? Or has the moment passed now?
It’s hard for me to imagine a scenario not wanting to do my wife, even if every time I did it, she was unconscious.
But I guess it is coming for all of ass...eventually 


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> But, if she suddenly decided to be more adventurous, would you still care? Or has the moment passed now?
> It’s hard for me to imagine a scenario not wanting to do my wife, even if every time I did it, she was unconscious.


Because presumably an unconscious spouse would let you do anything.

Let's try a different tack. I want to have sex with my wife. What she is comfortable doing I don't consider sex - or at least not satisfying sex, since missionary PIV is certainly sex.

Try this experiment. The next time you have sex, tie your hands behind your back and duct tape your mouth shut. Under no circumstances allow her to put her own mouth on you below the neck. After the initial kinky rush wears off, see if you could continue to enjoy sex this way for decades. See if the frustration of always inhibiting your desire doesn't in the end lead to the loss of desire.

I liken sex to taking off my clothes so I can don a straight jacket.

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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Because presumably an unconscious spouse would let you do anything.


Good point.



Cletus said:


> Let's try a different tack. I want to have sex with my wife. What she is comfortable doing I don't consider sex - or at least not satisfying sex, since missionary PIV is certainly sex.
> 
> Try this experiment. The next time you have sex, tie your hands behind your back and duct tape your mouth shut. Under no circumstances allow her to put her own mouth on you below the neck. After the initial kinky rush wears off, see if you could continue to enjoy sex this way for decades. See if the frustration of always inhibiting your desire doesn't in the end lead to the loss of desire.
> 
> ...



We did run out of duct tape the other night...But I see your point. I know it’s not the same situation so I can’t put myself completely in your shoes. But for me, some bad sex would still be preferable to no sex.
She is not always into doing the same stuff that I want and sometimes I do put a bit of a stink up but it’s still always better than nothing.
I realise your situation is much more extreme. Bit more like @Holdingontoit ‘s.
But it seems like she has some need she is not going to get filled now that you are starting to take sex off the table completely.
I honestly can’t tell if some people are just a lot more persistent and insistent when it comes to persuasion powers (to meet some place in the middle) or if it’s really always the spouse, all the time.



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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Cletus said:


> The only part about this with which I am struggling now is communicating it to my spouse.
> 
> She is getting frustrated now that it's become obvious that our sex life is crashing.
> 
> But how do you tell your spouse that you just can't do it anymore? That the balance between the good you get from sex and the frustration you get from sex has now, and probably forever, shifted to the "don't bother" end of the scale?


 @Cletus I think it is fair enough that you can be a little passive aggressive. If you sincerely don't want to bother anymore, then don't. But might I suggest that if your wife is in the mood that you can and should just lay there and tell her that if she wants it that she needs to do all the work and just make it happen. Explain that you will just lay there and that you might get in the mood and you might not.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> @Cletus I think it is fair enough that you can be a little passive aggressive. If you sincerely don't want to bother anymore, then don't. But might I suggest that if your wife is in the mood that you can and should just lay there and tell her that if she wants it that she needs to do all the work and just make it happen. Explain that you will just lay there and that you might get in the mood and you might not.




Actually that’s a great idea. Also tell her she is only allowed to kiss you BELOW your neck!


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

You could just put the ball in her court. You refuse to continue with missionary PIV with her restrictive rules. She can choose:

1) Sex with no limits

or

2) No sex

Her choice. You will accept her decision either way.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> You could just put the ball in her court. You refuse to continue with missionary PIV with her restrictive rules. She can choose:
> 
> 1) Sex with no limits
> 
> ...


Absolutes usually are no good. No limits? Better to say sex with fewer limits (specifying the acceptable boundaries) vs. no sex.

Otherwise you're asking her to accept the possibility of 5x/day while incorporating extreme bondage and humiliation, massive toys that would choke a horse, and public exhibitionism involving three midgets and a llama.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> You could just put the ball in her court. You refuse to continue with missionary PIV with her restrictive rules. She can choose:
> 
> 1) Sex with no limits
> 
> ...


No, I'm well past the desire to forcibly change her behavior, so option 1, with or without the livestock and midgets is already a non-starter. 

I have fully accepted that she is who she is, and that there is nothing I can or should do about it. This is the last step of accepting that I am who I am, and that I might have to keep playing by rules that I did not help write and do not agree to, but that I don't have to pretend to be OK with it.

At the same time, I won't put a "no sex" rule in place. If she wants it and is motivated enough to initiate in no uncertain terms, I'll fulfill my obligation. Which also won't work, because just like you and me, she wants to be desired. 

So a slow spiral into sexlessness is the almost inevitable outcome.

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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Because presumably an unconscious spouse would let you do anything.
> 
> Let's try a different tack. I want to have sex with my wife. What she is comfortable doing I don't consider sex - or at least not satisfying sex, since missionary PIV is certainly sex.
> 
> ...


Good Lord!!!!!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Cletus said:


> At the same time, I won't put a "no sex" rule in place. If she wants it and is motivated enough to initiate in no uncertain terms, I'll fulfill my obligation. Which also won't work, because just like you and me, *she wants to be desired.*


Oh my (badsanta getting and idea).... what if you tell her that you are not in the mood but that you will give her duty sex if she needs it. If she turns that down then complain to no end that you feel like you were just rejected for being willing to try. 

(my wife did this to me once, and it messed with my head!)


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cletus said:


> So a slow spiral into sexlessness is the almost inevitable outcome.



Remind me, please, why you are staying in this marriage? Seriously, I don't remember your story... I can put up with infrequent sex if it's good when I have it (although that makes it worse sometimes)... actually, I should say when we _did_ have it... :laugh:


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Right now, it's not really the lack of sex that's bothering me, since I have learned to be "self soothing" anyway, and since right now I am more to blame than she is. It's the hard conversation with the spouse where it becomes articulated and formal - "you no longer interest me sexually, so please go away". Although in all truth, I probably owe her that conversation so she can make the same calculus, even if I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that question too.


It sounds like she has pretty much said the same to you. Why not say it back to her?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Out of interest: what is the difference between using your partner’s body for one’s own sexual pleasure, and having a partner that is disinterested in sex but lets you **** them?
(I know that’s not quite your situation Cletus).


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Cletus,
What would happen if C2 wore just the right outfit in the lead up to show time? I know that when M2 walks around in a t shirt and panties for a while that does the trick for me every time.

As to the challenge of remaining physically synchronized in a long term marriage, I personally think that a ‘high touch’ marriage is a huge thing. As we age - for most people - the sexual aspect of touch decreases. I wish it didn’t - but it does. The thing is - frustrations relating to sex CAN poison the well. When that happens, non sexual touch suffers - and I think that is a huge loss. 

I think we are just running thru our 8th year since the last time we had sex - if one describes sex in accordance with the clintonesque definition. 

M2 had intermittent levels of pain in the last two years that we did have intercourse and I started to worry that we would create a chronic inflammatory condition that made normal life painful for M2. 





Married but Happy said:


> I am HD and lost sexual interest in my first (LD) wife after many years of her avoiding and denying me sex. I didn't lose interest in sex, just _sex with her_, so that's the point where I decided to move on.





Cletus said:


> Give that man a cigar.
> 
> While you're still fighting against the nature of your spouse, thinking that somewhere there's some magical elixir to change what's staring you straight in the face, you can maintain interest. A fight you're still in is a fight you might one day win.
> 
> ...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

MEM2020 said:


> Cletus,
> What would happen if C2 wore just the right outfit in the lead up to show time? I know that when M2 walks around in a t shirt and panties for a while that does the trick for me every time.


We were camping this weekend. When it came time to change out of our swimsuits in the tent, I pitched a second one spontaneously just for fun. So I'm not immune to getting aroused. Actually, the arousal part is easy. It's when I get up in my head and think about where being aroused is going to lead that I get deflated. Literally. 

Sometimes she does dress for sex, but it's good for a wry smile that what she considers sexy-time wear is something that a good chunk of the population would be comfortable wearing to a dinner party . 

Still, I've come to recognize it for what it is, and I try (sometimes) to behave accordingly. Currently, I have abrogated all responsibility in the sex department. I let her decide when, where, and how. That way I don't get disappointed by my own expectations.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Me too.




Cletus said:


> We were camping this weekend. When it came time to change out of our swimsuits in the tent, I pitched a second one spontaneously just for fun. So I'm not immune to getting aroused. Actually, the arousal part is easy. It's when I get up in my head and think about where being aroused is going to lead that I get deflated. Literally.
> 
> Sometimes she does dress for sex, but it's good for a wry smile that what she considers sexy-time wear is something that a good chunk of the population would be comfortable wearing to a dinner party .
> 
> Still, I've come to recognize it for what it is, and I try (sometimes) to behave accordingly. *Currently, I have abrogated all responsibility in the sex department. I let her decide when, where, and how. * That way I don't get disappointed by my own expectations.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> MEM2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Cletus,
> ...


Makes sense to me.

Except maybe the letting her decide part.

If she decides she is ready and you aren’t into it, do you still do it? I don’t think I would so that’s the part I don’t get. I would just eventually not do it at all under the circumstances you described.

But maybe you don’t dislike it as much as I imagine I would so maybe it’s still fun or worth it when she asks?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Makes sense to me.
> 
> Except maybe the letting her decide part.
> 
> ...


I get two kinds of come-ons: the one with a tentative "I'm up for it if you are" vibe, and the "gotta have it NOW" vibe (for the readers without the back story, recall that I am NOT in a sexless marriage, just a sexually mismatched marriage). I never turn down the latter, but find more and more that I do the former. And since our frequency is way down, it's not as hard to enjoy when it happens. That's part of the strategy of remaining at least marginally engaged too - to a man in a desert, anything wet looks pretty good, so to speak.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

MEM2020 said:


> Me too.


Me three, basically dropped the rope after say 7 or 8 years of low grade conflict. "I'm done asking". 



> M2 had intermittent levels of pain in the last two years that we did have intercourse and I started to worry that we would create a chronic inflammatory condition that made normal life painful for M2.


FWIW, we had a similar issue for a while, not 2 years, but a while. After the I'm done discussion she was making a real effort @ once a week and then this issue came up. Most distressing for both of us. The doc who was prescribing the estrogen cream which had helped with dryness offered up physical therapy as the next step. She talked to a few of her girlfriends who had done it with little success and much embarrassment so that was ruled out. In the end, I adopted the practice of much more foreplay than normal. Well beyond when she would normally move on to P in V and that worked. Hasn't had a recurrence for 6 months or so. I think part of it is mental, she had mostly lost her orgasm then the pain started, with the patient approach after a while the orgasm came back and it becomes a reinforcing process to avoid the muscle spasms...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Well, at least you wives are still prepared to meet your needs and make an effort, despite all the problems. The results might be a mixed bag, but, personally, I would be happy with that.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> Makes sense to me.
> 
> Except maybe the letting her decide part.
> 
> ...


This is where I would stumble too. When I don't want to, I won't. And if I didn't want to because I felt like every time I was in a strait jacket, I absolutely would let my husband know.

I suppose it's kind to let someone believe they are desirable to you just because that's what they want to hear -- but then you're just completely selling yourself short, and that's not fair.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> Well, at least you wives are still prepared to meet your needs


 No



> and make an effort


 Yes



> , despite all the problems. The results might be a mixed bag, but, personally, I would be happy with that.


My wife is absolutely not able to meet my needs, which are not extravagant, though I do not fault her for being who she is. That she does what she can to the best of her limited ability is why I am still in the marriage. I could "trade up" for better sex - what would I get in return? Credit card debt? Laziness? Smelly feet? Yeah, it's a bummer to have an unsatisfactory sex life, but it's not the worst thing in the world either.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Yeah, it's a bummer to have an unsatisfactory sex life, but it's not the worst thing in the world either.



At least you have one... :wink2:


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

In my former marriage, our drives were completely out of whack: I was (and still am) really HD, and he was really LD. Our marriage started off with me wanting more, and trying to initiate and talk to him about it. He said that sex with me stressed him out and he took it off the table for a few weeks. Because of how he treated me throughout our marriage, and who he was a person in general, I lost all interest in sex with him (I was pretty repulsed to be honest). The last couple years of our marriage marriage ended up with me having totally killed my sex drive and when we did have sex, my mind went to it’s happy place until it was over. This wasn’t something we could ever talk about openly, and one of the many things that killed our marriage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

@Cletus - joking apart, it must be really terrible... the only thing that saved us for many years was the quality of the sex, when we had it. I would have liked a little bit more in terms of variety, but it was great. Unfortunately, because of the frequency, it turned into a nightmare, a different type of nightmare from yours... the nightmare is over now, but I miss it a bit in a funny, almost masochist way... :smile2:


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> @Cletus - joking apart, it must be really terrible... the only thing that saved us for many years was the quality of the sex, when we had it. I would have liked a little bit more in terms of variety, but it was great. Unfortunately, because of the frequency, it turned into a nightmare, a different type of nightmare from yours... the nightmare is over now, but I miss it a bit in a funny, almost masochist way... :smile2:


Are you in another relationship now?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> Out of interest: what is the difference between using your partner’s body for one’s own sexual pleasure, and having a partner that is disinterested in sex but lets you **** them?
> (I know that’s not quite your situation Cletus).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think the difference between the options you define would be that with the former, your partner's pleasure is still an option. With the latter, it's not.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I've absolutely lost sexual interest in my wife. Not 100%, but maybe...80%? I spent so long agonizing over our mismatch that I think I eventually started associating sex with negative feelings. We'd occasionally have lackluster sex, and it was always apparent that she wasn't into it. After a while, it just became a matter of not being worth the effort. I'd spend weeks planning and engineering events so we could have sex, only to be disappointed with the result (for anyone hanging on to the notion--a man's orgasm is not necessarily a sign of satisfaction). Where I once gained an emotional boost from sex, there was at best nothing. At worst, I'd feel bad about myself for even forcing the issue. 

I want to have sex. I just don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Sometimes insisting on sex can be part of a kind of foreplay and push & pull games that maybe men don’t often get...
I wanted to have sex on the balcony of a penthouse overlooking the city and she seemed reluctant because people might see us...so I gave up. She grabbed my face and said that “next time I want to **** her, I need to mean it and insist on it harder otherwise it is not fun for her”.
Because the chasing, persuading, insisting and overpowering part is part of it and I often miss it...
I am grateful that she gives me clues like that because otherwise I would never know and think that she was just being a prude.
I’m not saying this is possible with every woman - maybe it isn’t - but I feel like some women have an idea in their head of ‘what is proper’ and what is ‘dirty’, and they act as if they don’t want dirty, when in fact that’s all they want or feel like their husband is not interested in sex if he just gives up and doesn’t chase. Some men perhaps feel it’s ‘beneath’ them, I dunno.
And the wives feel ashamed agreeing to something too easily because it goes ‘against their ethos’ or how they have been brought up. But once they feel someone else is taking responsibility for it (or even overpowering them), they feel it is somehow more acceptable and just let go. I dunno. Just throwing it out there because it happens so much and I often feel like a dumbass for missing it.
I find it hard to believe they are happy where the sexual dynamic is basically ‘if you want it, you ask for it, I’m done coming onto you’.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> I think the difference between the options you define would be that with the former, your partner's pleasure is still an option. With the latter, it's not.



That is only in one’s head though.
If the partner just lies in there and you cannot possibly know whether they are interested or not, then the only difference is what you imagine it to be surely?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

aine said:


> Are you in another relationship now?


No, it's too early. I'm not really planning to date any time soon... I need to heal and recover first.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> Sometimes insisting on sex can be part of a kind of foreplay and push & pull games that maybe men don’t often get...
> I wanted to have sex on the balcony of a penthouse overlooking the city and she seemed reluctant because people might see us...so I gave up. She grabbed my face and said that “next time I want to **** her, I need to mean it and insist on it harder otherwise it is not fun for her”.
> Because the chasing, persuading, insisting and overpowering part is part of it and I often miss it...
> I am grateful that she gives me clues like that because otherwise I would never know and think that she was just being a prude.
> ...


You have to come up with something where both are happy. 

If the wife wants to play hard to get, and make the husband work for it, that’s ok if the husband enjoys that game as well, or at least is happy to play it because it gets him what he wants. But if it feels like rejection, that can take the joy out of things for him.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Wazza said:


> You have to come up with something where both are happy.
> 
> If the wife wants to play hard to get, and make the husband work for it, that’s ok if the husband enjoys that game as well, or at least is happy to play it because it gets him what he wants. But if it feels like rejection, that can take the joy out of things for him.


She wants somebody who GETS it. If she has to TELL him how to act in an attractive manner, then that is even more unattractive. Sexual attraction and response is not a rationalized and negotiated thing. Both partners want to want the other. Both partners want the other to act in the manner that they find sexually appealing. This is why it is rare to find a person that you are mentally and physically compatible with. 

_*"Why wouldn't she just TELL me what she wanted!?"*_ - Every man ever.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

dadstartingover said:


> Wazza said:
> 
> 
> > You have to come up with something where both are happy.
> ...


Curious, how many sex partners have you had?

I’ve found, by talking with my friends and my own sex partners, that there are actually a lot of women who don’t play games like this. Who know what they want and want to express that to their partner. Who are assertive in getting their needs met. 

So while I get it that apparently some women will simply never ever do this and will lose attraction to a guy if he needs any direction from her, men should also be made aware that not all women are like this.

Men I have been with just simply would not have gotten with me if I was not able to express my own sexual needs. Some men would never accept such a relationship.

It’s a choice. It’s not a choice all men make to be in that situation. It’s a decision to stay. 

If you do stay with a woman who will not express herself and makes you do all of the work to “figure her out” then I wish you well and hope things are satisfactory for all concerned. But this is not the fate of every male female sexual relationship, not by far.

ETA: I asked how many partners you have had because I can see how if a man has had only a few and all of them were like this that he may conclude most women are like this.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Curious, how many sex partners have you had?
> 
> I’ve found, by talking with my friends and my own sex partners, that there are actually a lot of women who don’t play games like this. Who know what they want and want to express that to their partner. Who are assertive in getting their needs met.
> 
> ...


Fair enough.

I think it's one thing to say, "I like it like THIS... rub me more HERE... not so much THAT...I like it when you do this", and it's another to say "I don't like it when you're such a slob, so agreeable, so nice all the time, never take charge, let yourself get out of shape, aren't assertive enough, not dominate enough, etc". Plenty of women have been taught, and rightfully so, that men have a fragile ego and it doesn't take much to squash them like a bug. So, they keep the big stuff to themselves... and watch the attraction crumble.

On the flip side, most men would never tell their woman that they're getting out of shape and more unattractive. They'll just escape to porn or affairs.

As far as your "how many sex partners" question... out of respect I would never ask you that. I understand the reason behind your question, but it's kind of petty and below you. Let's just say, "plenty".


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Wazza said:


> You have to come up with something where both are happy.
> 
> 
> 
> If the wife wants to play hard to get, and make the husband work for it, that’s ok if the husband enjoys that game as well, or at least is happy to play it because it gets him what he wants. But if it feels like rejection, that can take the joy out of things for him.



She may not know what it is she likes sexually and she may not know that she even likes being chased and overpowered; she could be resisting ‘instinctively’ because that’s what (many) women have been doing for centuries.
So it’s not something that can be agreed on easily, if you don’t even know you are doing it or liking it...
It takes time to figure out what it is you like anyway.
I don’t think the incompatibility is necessarily a sexual incompatibility, it’s more like a character incompatibility: some women are more assertive and some men feel less comfortable being persuasive in that sense.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

dadstartingover said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Curious, how many sex partners have you had?
> ...


I do apologize for the fact that my question sounded like I was asking for an actual number answer, but I really just expected a “plenty” or “not many” type of answer. Thank you for answering as if I asked it better (should have specified “not asking for a number”).

I am with you on all the rest and of course that type of dynamic happens a lot.

And yes both partners end up not wanting to face difficult issues or they may not even be able to express what they are feeling (like when a woman doesn’t know how to say “please have a backbone” or a man can’t say “please stop being such a nag”).

Still, I think we should encourage those couples to figure out how to speak up. Not how to accept that women want men to read their minds.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> That is only in one’s head though.
> If the partner just lies in there and you cannot possibly know whether they are interested or not, then the only difference is what you imagine it to be surely?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Could be. But in some relationships, there's a "green light" given beforehand with the understanding that one partner likes to "be used" for lack of a better term. Communicating the issue in advance is the best way to know for sure. Without that, yeah you're just trying to intuit her level of enjoyment.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> She may not know what it is she likes sexually and she may not know that she even likes being chased and overpowered; she could be resisting ‘instinctively’ because that’s what (many) women have been doing for centuries.
> So it’s not something that can be agreed on easily, if you don’t even know you are doing it or liking it...
> It takes time to figure out what it is you like anyway.
> I don’t think the incompatibility is necessarily a sexual incompatibility, it’s more like a character incompatibility: some women are more assertive and some men feel less comfortable being persuasive in that sense.
> ...


The whole “me too” movement makes the idea of overpowering even more complex.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Wazza said:


> The whole “me too” movement makes the idea of overpowering even more complex.


As well as the states that have passed "Affirmative Consent" (Yes-means-Yes laws) standards for sexual assault. 'Hard to get' can put a man in very dangerous legal waters.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think "hard to get" *must* be worked out in advance, or clearly telegraphed when she is playing vs *really* doesn't want sex. The risks for both people are just too high otherwise. 




DownButNotOut said:


> As well as the states that have passed "Affirmative Consent" (Yes-means-Yes laws) standards for sexual assault. 'Hard to get' can put a man in very dangerous legal waters.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

uhtred said:


> I think "hard to get" *must* be worked out in advance, or clearly telegraphed when she is playing vs *really* doesn't want sex. The risks for both people are just too high otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doesn’t that defeat the whole point?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

DownButNotOut said:


> As well as the states that have passed "Affirmative Consent" (Yes-means-Yes laws) standards for sexual assault. 'Hard to get' can put a man in very dangerous legal waters.


I’m not in the US so the legal framework is different, but I think this goes beyond legalities. The whole presumption of innocence has been thrown out and people are being destroyed in the court of public opinion.

Those of you with amazing sexual radars, how do you avoid misreading situations when you get carried away? Is it just obvious to you, or is there more to it?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

uhtred said:


> I think "hard to get" *must* be worked out in advance, or clearly telegraphed when she is playing vs *really* doesn't want sex. The risks for both people are just too high otherwise.




Working out ‘the rules’ is the biggest bone killer, apparently (said every rapist, ever)  
I think if you are married, you can tell when you are over stepping boundaries...i wouldn’t try this in a new relationship.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

InMyPrime said:


> Sometimes insisting on sex can be part of a kind of foreplay and push & pull games that maybe men don’t often get...



This is ME....when my husband wants to have sex, my first thought, EVERY TIME, is "he couldn't _really_ want to have sex with ME...", so I'll reply with "Really? Right now?", or "Are you sure?", and even "Do we have to??" - not in an annoyed tone or anything, more like "Huh??" -- and this is even if I've spent the day really hoping he wants to!! 

It's like, I want to be sure he MEANS it, that he really wants ME, he's not just doing his duty (or something) - I can't explain it, but it's a good thing he isn't phased by it, and he says, "YUP, let's go!", or else we'd never have sex!!! Lol!

I have been really trying to change my responses to match how I actually feel - like, instead of "really?", I try to say, "Ooooh! Ok!!", or a scarier one, "I was hoping you would want to!" -- it's difficult! I love to play that game of, He Just Can't Resist Me So My No Doesn't Matter. 

Also, I NEVER initiate sex - EVER...I just can't, and that's not something I plan on working on!!! Too effing scary! Lol!!!


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> I have been really trying to change my responses to match how I actually feel - like, instead of "really?", I try to say, "Ooooh! Ok!!"


Or try channeling the Roadrunner, yell “Meep, Meep” and rush to the bedroom while shedding clothing.


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