# Is the 180 Passive Agressive?



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Well is it?

Discuss....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## itom72 (Apr 12, 2012)

Is passive-aggressive behavior necessarily "bad"?

As long as the approach is effective, does it matter whether it's outright aggressive, or passively so?

The answers to your question about the 180 are going to depend on the opinions of your responders to those two questions.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

It seems to work because it :

1: Starves the WS of validation when you refuse to engage them; 

2: Takes the focus off the WS's needs and keeps the BS focused on his/her own needs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I could possibly see it in those terms if the BS is primarily using it as a manipulation/tool to force a WS into R.

If the BS is simply using it to detach and heal themselves from the hurt and damage of a traitorous spouse, then I would not define that as passive aggressive behavior.

Many BS do use the 180 though as a way to punish the WS and try to push them off the fence into working on the M, if we are to believe the posts/descriptions of what they are doing and hope to accomplish.

I'm not sure that many BS, at least initially, view it as a defense mechanism for themselves.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> I could possibly see it in those terms if the BS is primarily using it as a manipulation/tool to force a WS into R.
> 
> If the BS is simply using it to detach and heal themselves from the hurt and damage of a traitorous spouse, then I would not define that as passive aggressive behavior.
> 
> ...


I think you hit it. When used for the wrong purpose it can backfire, as we have seen so many times on this forum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> I could possibly see it in those terms if the BS is primarily using it as a manipulation/tool to force a WS into R.
> 
> If the BS is simply using it to detach and heal themselves from the hurt and damage of a traitorous spouse, then I would not define that as passive aggressive behavior.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

This


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

By itself? No, it isn't passive aggressive. If people followed it to the letter, to help detach, IMO it wouldn't be. People do it in a modified manner, which causes it to appear passive aggressive.


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## jay1365 (May 22, 2013)

Absolutely not. The 180, when done properly, cures co-dependence.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I don't believe the 180 is passive aggressive. It's an empowering tool used by a BS to re-establish healthy boundaries in a relationship.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In order to be passive aggressing, an act has to have underlying purpose of hurting the other person. There in nothing in the 180 that is meat to hurt the other. 

Now a person could do something similar to the 180 with passive aggressive motives, but that's not the 180. Going this route will actually backfire and ruin any good that a real 180 could have done.


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## Mike11 (Aug 25, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Well is it?
> 
> Discuss....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



In a "Normal" Relationships the 180 can be viewed as being passive aggressive but when 180 implemented as a result of detachment due to a breakdown of a marriage and/or communications due to Foggy behavior of a WS it cannot be passive aggressive at all, as the situation is already aggravated enough to stir emotions high at this stage


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

It would be Passive-Aggressive IF you were using it to manipulate the other person. But we all know that's not the purpose of the 180. Now, it may have that effect on the WS, but if you're truly using it as it's intended to be used (to detach), then it's not.


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm using it to save my sanity. If it were anything it'd be aggressive instead of passive no? It's not very passive behavior to cut off all contact with a loved one.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pamvhv said:


> I'm using it to save my sanity. If it were anything it'd be aggressive instead of passive no? It's not very passive behavior to cut off all contact with a loved one.


The 180 does not say to cut off all contact with a loved one.

Cutting off all contact is, well, going no contact.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

_1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes._


Yeah... I'm looking at this list again and I cannot see any item that is overtly passive aggressive.


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> It seems to work because it :
> 
> 1: Starves the WS of validation when you refuse to engage them;
> 
> ...


Absolutely.... After MY D-DAY, i had read this months before in prep. for that day......I went HARD 180 not to punish but to reclaim parts of myself..Only after i outed the OM to his BW ( 3 months later) and what he showed me did i realize how important implementing this was for me to survive...i do not think i could have made it through what is (i think) the Worst day of any BHs life..


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

The program worked for me. My wife saw me detaching and felt it too. I did feel really mean to her doing this but she came around. Also asked me to stay as one month before I told her I was moving out for a controlled separation. That was six months ago and we are still trying to R. It seems to be going well. Time will tell but it did work to at least allow us to make an effort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

The 180 can be useful to various degrees in other relationships. I don't have a good relationship with my mother and I had to accept that everything that I shared with other was fodder for creating conflict. And it's really sad when you are treating your parent like a parent; ie "I have good news........" Responses: "uh huh, and what's so good about that........" I just let her now be the last to know.

Now, whether the 180 is PA or not........ I have stopped looking at intent. Mainly, because we really don't know someone intent is and if it is negative, they're not going to admit to it.

I also don't give a free pass to stupidity either. 

I am curoius as to why anyone would even worry whether the 180 is PA or appears to be PA. It's accepted as a useful to BSs to rebalance themselves and to make choices that are right for them in less than favorable circumstances. Most likely, the only person who would call it PA is the WS who has to accept that they don't have the same control over their spouse as they used to.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

I did the 180 naturally, without even knowing what the hell it was (that was before I came here). I did not do it to try and get her to come back to me, not at all, or for punishment. It was strictly a survival instinct. I did it to avoid crumbling and losing it. I did it to prove to myself I was going to be fine, that I was not the worthless piece of garbage my stbxww treated me as. 

So for me, no, it wasn't. It was sink or swim, and swam, HARD. Still swimming.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Passive Aggressive towards a KNOWN LIAR and CHEAT?

Who cares.. Boo Hoo.

INFIDELITY is passive aggressive. Your wayward is breaking your will to live without laying a FINGER on you and they KNOW IT.

It's all passive aggressive, since active aggression is ILLEGAL. lol

If you are passive aggressive towards an aggressor then it's just self defense at that point.

It's not much worse than kicking someone in the krotch who's trying to strangle you to death...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

I looked at some definitions of passive aggressive and found they generally describe is behavior characterized by the expression of negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive way (as through procrastination and stubbornness. (most of this came from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary). I would probably add hidden, in that the passive aggressive person often hides or denies the anger or resentment behind the (in)actions.

I don't see where the 180 has to be P-A (though it can be), as long as you are up front about it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Over the couple if years I've been on TAM I've heard several BSs and spouses of WASs describe the 180 hat way. I think us usually to find a reason not to do it. These people are usually the clingy codependent ones who are scared to make their errant mates angry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Fear comes from a lack of knowledge. 

The 180 is best used to heal, after leaving. Leaving first, is the best way to do it. The ones who use it the most, are those who cannot leave yet, but are being continually betrayed.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I looked at some definitions of passive aggressive and found they generally describe is behavior characterized by the expression of negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive way (as through procrastination and stubbornness. (most of this came from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary). * I would probably add hidden, in that the passive aggressive person often hides or denies the anger or resentment behind the (in)actions.
> *
> I don't see where the 180 has to be P-A (though it can be), as long as you are up front about it.


This is why I have stopped worrying about other people's so called intent. No one is ever going to admit, yeah, I intended to break your dishes and make a mess on your floor when I pretended to trip.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I see the 180 as passive towards the WS. I did it in 2013 and it worked for me. When I started the process for D I meant it and thought I would or could never reach the point of detachment and I did, thanks to the 180. The hardest part for me was keeping my mouth shut and not expressing myself to my wife, but I was able to do just that.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I hate passive aggressive behavior -- but then again, I am a very "no-nonsense" type. Don't beat around the bush if you want something or have something to say... spit it out. 

If you've tried talking and the 180 was the next step as a means to detach, that will work in some places. But like so many say, it isn't a means to punish or get back with the wayward, it is a way to move yourself forward. So if you are using it appropriately, then I would answer "no," because in essence you are being proactive in regards to the necessary detachment that will allow you to move forward. 

Being proactive is the opposite of passive.


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm starting the 180 now to try to get myself out of this roller coaster of emotions. I really hope it helps. Right now I feel like not seeing and talking to him is going to be torture.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Pamvhv said:


> I'm starting the 180 now to try to get myself out of this roller coaster of emotions. I really hope it helps. Right now I feel like not seeing and talking to him is going to be torture.


It's like assertiveness training. You change your behavior.... then you notice that you like the the world newly interacts with you and it bumps up your confidence.........


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

I don't see the 180 as passive or aggressive.

It's a healthy tool to have in the toolbox when dealing with unhealthy behaviour in relationships.

I despise PA behaviour whenever I see or hear it, I think it's pathetic and cowardly. 

However a good and effective 180 needs a strong and determined heart.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

I agree, I don't think it's passive aggressive. I don't think you are trying to manipulate the outcome. I my view of the 180, it's to help the ww and to show or bring out in open the pain and hurt that they have caused. In no way shape or form is it to manipulate, cajole, push, into a pre-determined direction or outcome. In lay terms, this is what you did, this is what has become of us and this is what I must do to maintain my sanity and self worth. I have read that 180 till I'm blue and I maintain my ground to the fact it's to save the ww of any further hurt, pain, suffering, or flat out being led around by the collar to a fools errand. IMHO the 180 is the only thing that stands the test of time and helps make any sense of the hurt caused by the BS. Again just my opinion, nothing more.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Some good points here for sure. The 180 helped me very much to get my sanity in check when it felt my world was crashing down.

-It pushed me to be better as a person
-Gave me strength inside
-Showed the wife that I can be on my own
-The detaching from her/situation gave me inner peace
-I told I her I moving out and the situation was not improving.
-I offered her an un-contested divorce in the beginning of Nov.

So once she experienced all this, she had 2nd and 3rd thoughts. Lose everything because she can't get over herself and see things for what they are. It's 50/50 blame not all me.


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