# would you want to know



## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

So I'm pretty sure that if not right now, at one point there was another man for my stbxw, but I don't know for sure.

My question is, would you want to know for sure if there was another person involved, why or why not?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost in Hell (Mar 6, 2012)

If she really is your STBXW, regardless of the reason I wouldn't want to know. Just write it off and move on with your life. 

What I mean is if you are really getting divorced, then why put yourself through more pain of knowing she stepped out on you?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I still have some doubts and unanswered questions. But since reconciliation is no longer an option, then I can live with not knowing.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Another guy may have been the impetus for her breaking up with you, but what does it matter? She broke up with you and hung you out to dry... that is all that matters. Shake the dust off your sandals and move on. She's not worth mulling over.


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## Lost in Hell (Mar 6, 2012)

nice777guy said:


> I still have some doubts and unanswered questions. But since reconciliation is no longer an option, then I can live with not knowing.


This is more of what I was trying to convey. If you're at the point of not being able to reconcile and are getting a divorce, I wouldn't think it would worth putting yourself through that extra pain.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

I still don't really know the extent of what was going on - whether he was actually having an affair or whether he was just scouring around looking for one

now the divorce is underway I'm not interested, what does it matter now?


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## yellowsubmarine (Feb 3, 2012)

I wouldn't care either way. I would wish them the best.

My STBWH had been testing the waters, and I read virtual correspondence between him and his "platonic love" (yes, he used those words to describe her) trying to set up a rendez-vous. He then told me that he thought about it and never went because of perception (you think?!?!?).

If he was committed to me, he wouldn't have gone that far. That is enough for me. 

In the end, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you are no longer in a relationship with her. 

Besides, what would you do with that information? What would you get out of it?


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Proud....you're thinking too much again. Why even bother thinking about this stuff??

You've got better things to do with your time. Why not think about last night's back rub instead?


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

Proud, you're doing it again. You're pulling off some of the band-aid after you've healed a bit.

I will admit to wondering the same about my ex, but accepted that her being with someone else (whether or not it's happened), or my being with someone else, is inevitable. It's just gonna happen.

Move forward, and stop torturing yourself with this stuff. Does it really help?


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I think the less you know, the better. Otherwise you take the information and run wild with it, then obsess, etc. I understand what you're feeling though.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

JPR trust me I've been thinking about that backrub a lot today!

Can you are right, I need to put more band aids on, not take them off.

Also, any information at this point doesn't change anything
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> his "platonic love" (yes, he used those words to describe her)


Wow! Does he moonlight as a Greek philosopher? :lol:


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

It depends. My STBXW just shut down, and seven months ago abandoned our kids and me, and moved in with her sister. No one, and I mean, no one: her adult daughter (my stepdaughter), her parents, sisters, confidants, etc. could figure out what happened. To this day, I don't know, and seriously doubt I ever will. Based on everything to date, I seriously doubt there has been any PA or EA.

At least if I knew there was another man or woman then I could make sense of what happened. That would be a positive element of knowing. But, I really would have no jealous response. My only emotion would be irritation at not sharing the reason with me up until now.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

papa5280 said:


> It depends. My STBXW just shut down, and seven months ago abandoned our kids and me, and moved in with her sister. No one, and I mean, no one: her adult daughter (my stepdaughter), her parents, sisters, confidants, etc. could figure out what happened. To this day, I don't know, and seriously doubt I ever will. Based on everything to date, I seriously doubt there has been any PA or EA.
> 
> At least if I knew there was another man or woman then I could make sense of what happened. That would be a positive element of knowing. But, I really would have no jealous response. My only emotion would be irritation at not sharing the reason with me up until now.


I've said it twice before and I'll say it thrice, walkaways are worse than cheaters. They leave their loved ones behind with no explanation as to why; leaving them with no data or information to make sense of the abandonment, so the betrayed spouse blames himself/herself and suffer for a lifetime... no closure... no peace. Walkaways are the pinnacle of cowardice.

At least with a cheater you know some of the _whys_ and can digest them and move on.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I've said it twice before and I'll say it thrice, walkaways are worse than cheaters. They leave their loved ones behind with no explanation as to why; leaving them with no data or information to make sense of the abandonment, so the betrayed spouse blames himself/herself and suffer for a lifetime... no closure... no peace. Walkaways are the pinnacle of cowardice.
> 
> At least with a cheater you know some of the _whys_ and can digest them and move on.


My situation exactly. I was left thinking "what the hell happened?". In that situation, but anchor became "there is no sense in being with someone who does not want to be with me, whatever the reason".


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

At any time before being divorced I would want to know.


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## Gammyleg (Jan 12, 2011)

I know, and believe me it doesn't make it feel any better. Does add a little closure to it all though.

If you don't know, don't go looking. Just work under the belief that she is then should you ever find out it won't make much of a difference.

GL


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

Regardless of you being already divorced or not, I think knowing is extremely important. True that the OM is probably just the thing that made the inevitable happen.

BUT

If nothing else, now I will know what the warning signs are if they ever happen to me again.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

jpr said:


> Proud....you're thinking too much again. Why even bother thinking about this stuff??
> 
> You've got better things to do with your time. Why not think about last night's back rub instead?


Exactly. Did you get her number? Take her to breakfast or something; stop torturing yourself.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

No I didn't get her number, I was just enjoying the fact that a woman ten years younger than me showed interest
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jenny123 (Mar 21, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I've said it twice before and I'll say it thrice, walkaways are worse than cheaters. They leave their loved ones behind with no explanation as to why; leaving them with no data or information to make sense of the abandonment, so the betrayed spouse blames himself/herself and suffer for a lifetime... no closure... no peace. Walkaways are the pinnacle of cowardice.
> 
> At least with a cheater you know some of the _whys_ and can digest them and move on.


This is what I have found myself doing lately....blaming myself. I know deep down it's not me, but there is no other explanation as to why he would just leave after being together for 22 years (married 18) other than "I don't love you anymore". Mid life crisis maybe?? Who knows. Whatever it is, I now feel like all these years have been a lie and I married a total stranger. There really has been no indication of cheating, unless he is hiding it very well. He would never admit it. 
So the answer to the original question is ...Yes, I would want to know if he is cheating......absolutely.


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## Wildflower3 (Nov 20, 2011)

At this point, I'd want to know for the sake of my kids. Right now they need consistency so they can adapt well to this nonsensical mess we are in. I want to ease them into this divorce and not get even more confused by some OW until we are all ready for that step. This will be added to our parenting plan at mediation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Well my kids basically confirmed today that she has a boyfriend, and I've put two and two together and figured out that she goes over there on Sunday nights to be with him. I must have been that horrible that I was that easy to forget about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I must have been that horrible that I was that easy to forget about.


This again? What she does/does not do have nothing to do with you. You still cannot forget your ex, so she must be someone fantastic. Is it the case?


And did you not know about it when the guy was having a sleepover at your ex's place?


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> So I'm pretty sure that if not right now, at one point there was another man for my stbxw, but I don't know for sure.
> 
> My question is, would you want to know for sure if there was another person involved, why or why not?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes because the answer would affect how I felt for that person. And I've always been the person that liked to be around and know the truth. I think it'll do me any good to not know/accept what is. No matter how much I might not like it.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

proudwidaddy said:


> So I'm pretty sure that if not right now, at one point there was another man for my stbxw, but I don't know for sure.
> 
> My question is, would you want to know for sure if there was another person involved, why or why not?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you werent bothered about reconciling then no, but in your case Proud, and correct me if i'm wrong, where you are still hoping for reconciliation, then yes, i would want to know, as this would have a huge impact on any future you have together.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

proudwidaddy said:


> Well my kids basically confirmed today that she has a boyfriend, and I've put two and two together and figured out that she goes over there on Sunday nights to be with him. I must have been that horrible that I was that easy to forget about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No Proud, you are not, and as other posters have said, this isnt about you, this is about her. Just as my Hs A wasnt about me, it was about his demons and how he chose to deal with things. 

This is another setback for you Proud, but you will pick yourself back up again and it will make you stronger.

DG


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## yellowsubmarine (Feb 3, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Wow! Does he moonlight as a Greek philosopher? :lol:


HAHA! That is funny. I'm saving that one :smthumbup:

Today I had a case of the Mondays, and when I started "slipping away into frustration" I thought about your comment and it made me smile.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

A friend of mine told me something this morning that seemed to magically click for me. every time I think that my stbxw is easily replacing me, I need to look at it that she is not replacing me, she is just so desperate to fill that emptiness that she has to go from man to man. She can't find happiness in herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Nope. I wouldn't need to know, wouldn't care.

If you DON'T want to be with me, that's all I need to know!


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Well I got to find out last night that there is, and you know what....he can have her. She is just acting all fake anyways trying to impress him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I think if you're getting divorced there's no need for this. Plus sometimes you think you want to know but do you really? I started a thread some weeks ago "Did STBXW had a PA?" thinking I wanted to hear your honest opinions and I did but when I got no one saying maybe she didn't have a PA. Everyone said yes it was a PA and some started suggesting the things that might have happened between them this affected me and brought the hurt back. I think the mind pictures are haunting if you get to know the real truth with vivid details.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

I think its enough of a hell to wonder, but to actually find out takes it further along.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

proudwidaddy said:


> Well I got to find out last night that there is, and you know what....he can have her. She is just acting all fake anyways trying to impress him
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to hear that, Proud, but as I mentioned yesterday, this was an inevitability. 

I take issue with your post. You wrote too much. It should have been: 
_Well I got to find out last night that there is, and you know what....he can have her._

The rest of your post is you trying finding justification in her actions and choice to leave the marriage. Let it go. It's not about her anymore. It's about you. Make *YOU* count as you move forward.

If anyone else wants to kick Proud in the posterior, line up.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Canguy,
In Bandit's abscence, you have to step up and be hardcore


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

I've always been hardcore. I just misplaced my b*lls for a few years. They're back.


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## yellowsubmarine (Feb 3, 2012)

sd212 said:


> If nothing else, now I will know what the warning signs are if they ever happen to me again.


Signs I know to look for:

1) No longer checks his email on the house computer - says it's for business. Has it moved to the laptop.
2) Catch him in inconsistent stories when asked about his whereabouts.
3) Find receipts for mailing boxes to unknown addresses.
4) No longer talks or speaks like himself.
5) When asked "what are you thinking?" get a "nothing" reply, when his body language says otherwise and has a look that is somewhere else other than "here."
6) No longer speaks about the future or future plans.

I believe that, for the most part, we know that something is just not like it used to be. Next time I see warning signs, I don't know that I would tolerate it for as long as I did the first time.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Nope. I wouldn't need to know, wouldn't care.
> 
> If you DON'T want to be with me, that's all I need to know!


This. A thousand times this.

My STBXW wanted to separate but seemed to resist getting a divorce. After 3 months of being separated, I began pressing for a divorce and told her I was going to file. She asked why couldn't we keep our current arrangement? And I flat out said "I don't want to be married to someone who doesn't want to be with me."

Fairly simple concept. Kinda unsure why I had to spell it out for her? :scratchhead:


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

toolforgrowth (have to spell out your whole name cuz just 'tool' seems kinda rude!):

STBXW was trying to cake-eat...have her freedom, but keep you around in case she couldn't find someone new, or he didn't work out, or she needed some repair done, or a quick lay, or whatever!

Busted her on that one! Good for you!!!


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

canguy66 said:


> I've always been hardcore. I just misplaced my b*lls for a few years. They're back.


:smthumbup: My favorite Canguy post ever! :smthumbup:


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> toolforgrowth (have to spell out your whole name cuz just 'tool' seems kinda rude!):
> 
> STBXW was trying to cake-eat...have her freedom, but keep you around in case she couldn't find someone new, or he didn't work out, or she needed some repair done, or a quick lay, or whatever!
> 
> Busted her on that one! Good for you!!!


Many thanks, Wise.  And you can call me Tool. Tool is my favorite band, which helped in picking out my handle.

I agree completely about cake-eating. When I told her I was going to file by a certain day, she had to beat me to the punch and file herself. I'm okay with that...saved me the $300 filing fee! She used the county sheriff to serve me so she would have gotten confirmation, but when I didn't respond to it she sent me a snotty email late that night, which I still didn't respond to. I completely blew it off. When I finally did contact her about it, I was calm and cool and all business.

I've been 180'ing her hardcore...not to win her back, but to move on. And I certainly get the impression that she doesn't like it. Yet she still won't apologize, or do any legwork, or agree to counseling. She continues to act snotty. If I weren't so apathetic towards her at this point, I might almost feel sorry for her.


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## SRN (Mar 20, 2012)

To answer the initial question, no. 
After reading so much stuff here and elsewhere, I think I know _when_ she first f*cked him. Red flags I was oblivious to before and all that. When I came to that realization (and it sucks as I have a photographic memory) I had a major breakdown. That was the day I decided that I couldnt stay at "our" house any longer and started staying with my parents until the new place is ready.
Would I want to know if there were others? Other times with this guy? Not a chance. Its over now, I don't need the pain. Its hard enough knowing that she's out there, having fun and I'm just barely keeping my head above water, so to say.
F*ck her, f*ck her new life. I hope it all chrashes and burns around her.


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## AlterEgoist (Mar 6, 2012)

SRN said:


> F*ck her, f*ck her new life. I hope it all chrashes and burns around her.


It will. Just don't let it affect your life.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I've had a bunch of coffee and a good breakfast.... I've picked this thread to work a few ideas out. Ring the bell, school is in session:smthumbup:

Trust me, as hard as it is you're better off knowing the truth so you can take this as a learning experience and mature from it. Instead of busting your @$$ trying to figure out what happened so you can change into the ideals they have in mind and attract your WAS back, you should already know why they left and create contempt for them for quitting. And really, if you pull your head out of your @$$ and stop blaming yourself you'll see exactly why your spouse left 90% of the time.... 

Ahem, They called the shots long before they left sometime between the honeymoon phase and the end of the power struggle before your first big fight was settled. By this time you either grew completely comfortable knowing that everything could be worked out or grew a false sense of security knowing that you would never have these unresolved issues, so one of you kept everything hidden and the jealousy, anger, contempt, and excape plans grew. As soon as you (the faithful spouse) stopped giving them exactly what they wanted or stopped giving them just enough to keep them favoring you more over the OP/external forces with no fear of loss or punishment, do to the invisible safety net marriage create a illusion of.... they leave to test the waters. 

They leave but just like a run away dog they do not completely dissapear. That is because you have anchored the image of a loving person that will accept them no matter what they do.... (this is very deffinitive example of a codependent relationship btw) and so they will keep popping up every once in a while to see if you still want them back or treat them the same. Can anyone say Cake Eater returning for more? This is not a bad thing to have happen if you consider that you are, or you have, created the greener pasture from the another person't perspective so it tends to reason that they will keep coming back nostalgic for more when plans with the OP or better life don't pan out they way they planned. 

However, at that point if you so much as hint at wanting them back do to a flawed 180 or weakness on your part, they have lost all respect for you since they know you still want them and they can come and go as they please. They know you'll keep chasing and either be their shoulder to cry on when things don't work out or the back up plan when all else fails and they need selfish sexual relations/care-taking. Without respect you cannot build attraction, you cannot admire someone who throws themselves at your feet and does everything you want after you've sh!t all over them. That only creates contempt for them and builds your pedestal even higher. They may return for a temporary "try" but with nothing challenging them they will surely leave again.

Men and women it is not your fault they left! But know that the image you may have provided of the loving husband/wife/domestic partner that completely accepts your spouse and will tolerate being taken advantage of is completely flawed..... Smoothing things over 3,4,5 times and having the same BIG problems happen time and time again is only enabling. When you were onto your cheating spouses lies and accepted whatever BS excuses they gave you so they could keep seeing the OP, that was enabling. It's not until you make it clear that you won't put up with this and bring down the hammer that you start changing the power struggle in your favor. 

By letting them know you won't live as H and W with with a cheating spouse or take them back after what they've done.... let alone talk to them, you destroy the safety net they had that allowed them to so carelessly wonder away from responsibilities. And this scares the sh!t out of WAS's because all of a sudden they've burned your bridge and will have to accept what they've done. This is when they get mean and nasty and tell us they never loved us to begin with.... again this is to force blame and prevent them from taking responsibilities. I just think of them as a child saying "See what you made me do!".

You may be wondering after all of this if you even have a chance at reconciliation in the future... YES you still do, there's nothing written in stone keeping you apart for good. You may be at each others throats this year but you will always care about this other person as they will you, just not right now the way you'd expect. If they died tomorrow you would mourn them no matter what you felt the month before. However, you are not going to be in a place to attract them back for quite some time. For one thing you're both going to need some space and frekkin peace and quiet to settle down, but later you'll find after the D process is over with you're not as anxious and upset as before. It kind of mellows you out having big teacher make you both write out a confession on the chalk board and sit in opposite corners until recess is over.

I deal with guys younger than I am and as old as their 50's asking me about what they can do to attract women or attract exes back, and it's the same as what attracted your spouse to you! Long before all of this destroyed your sense of wellbeing you had this level of confidence about you that kept you happy and having fun no matter if you were on a date or single. You didn't really care about what some woman/man thought of you because you felt confident enough in your own skin to talk to complete strangers and joke around. And you remained a challenge to anyone trying to prematurely tie you down because you had other options. Now tell me, does any of this still remain true or are you still your WAS's miserable ex pining for a spouse that hates you?

I'm young enough to remember having dated women that put my wife to shame and how she worked hard to prove whe was what I really wanted. All of that changed when I did to become a "better husband", but all I really did was turn into a submissive slave that passively allowed her to hurt me instead of standing up for myself and ending the EA or the marriage on my call. Again, no one deserves to go through that pain and by taking charge and your share of the power you let your spouse know that you will not allow them to walk all over you. While my W was sleeping with or just kissing Jonny Rotten I was too busy feeling sorry for mysef to ever see the signs of an EA and I couldn't for the life of me remember who I use to be before I married her. The man she met wouldn't put up with that crap because he knew about a dozen girls that would have takenher place in heart beat and envied the good things I did for her. Which brings me to my final comment about what WAS's find attractive..... competition.

To keep things short I will just ask a question. Do you think your STBX would find you any more attractive if they knew you wouldn't replace them? If your cowardly cheating spouse came back two years from now when plans with the OM/OW didn't work out and after sleeping with half a dozen other people, back to apologize to you and request a second chance. Do you think they would find you sexually attractive if they came home only to find you 30lbs heavier eating a lean cuisine with the company of their picture after you've put the kids to bed. NO!....One of the most attractive qualities you have as a member of the animal kingdom is a desire from others to mate with you. Just the perceived threat is enough to increase your verility and chances to have sex as your desire to other men/women increases with competition. Not only should you be fighting to your instincts to be comfortable with the status quo you should be working to attract other partners if not for sex than for the sake of healing and moving on. Believe it or not your spouse is not an angel sent from heaven....he/she is a QUITTER and should be afraid of being replaced by someone better than them who would appreciate everything you have to offer with more love to give in return.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Thank you, Nsweet. I know you are writing that from a guy's point of view about a WW, but I think it applies to WHs as well. The biggest mistake I made was not that I married STBXH, but that I didn't leave him myself back in 2005 when he had his first honest-to-goodness EA. That was a terrible year for me in many ways: started out with a miscarriage that left my hormones very messed up for most of the year, having to decide whether or not to try for more kids with STBXH, eventually decided not to after having to admit that he couldn't handle more kids and I'd be lucky if he stuck around for DS until he grew up, and finally a surgery that I handled pretty much without him. 
I hung on to the better/worse, sickness/health, forsaking all others crap even though he didn't. I saw it, but I still hung on because MY values were to hang in there. I needed to value myself just as much, and I did not. I felt he was better than me, and better than he actually was. That set up a very bad precedent, I can see now. His contempt for me really did grow, as did his disrespect. He ran into very difficult health problems, including having to stop working, and though my treatment of him was 180 degrees opposite of how he was in my hours of need, he had another EA. I chalked it up to his depression, rather than seeing it as just being his pattern of cheating.
Eventually, he gained enough confidence to leave. He's still not a happy man, but he's convinced himself he's in love. Ironically, this latest EA-turned-PA left her boyfriend (who she was cheating on when the EA started) because she couldn't handle his depression. Does STBXH think she'll suddenly handle his, which is light-years worse? He's idealizing her just as he once did me. And it will eventually end just like our relationship did, but this time he may experience what it's like to be walked-out on. He's always been the one to end his relationships.

Difference is: I do not have a desire for R anymore. From being involved with him for almost 15 years, I am convinced that his mental and emotional problems are of the sort not solved by meds and weekly IC sessions. He still doesn't acknowledge his abuse of me nor the EAs, much less express sorrow or remorse for them. Without that, there is no way he can change enough to make me want him. It would not be safe for me.

I see how much I have changed in the mere months since I moved on my own. The first time in my life truly on my own. And with a child to take care of, too. 

I have a hard time with the last paragraph, though. My relationship with him was so painful and tumultuous that I really don't know how easy it will be to get involved again. I don't want him to see me as pining away for him, but trusting again is going to be hard. It may be that I just have some really shallow relationships for awhile first. I don't know. It will take a while to get used to someone treating me politely and with respect, and without gaslighting and abuse.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I know what you mean angelpixie, 
My wife is also a cheater who convinced herself after ONE MONTH of arguing that I wasn't what she was looking for and it just came out that after our biggest argument she dated some guy she met online and kissed him, one month after we came out of the Navy. I don't know if she did more and I don't have any shred of respect for her left after she lied about it so long. 

After that, she got herself involved in another EA and convinced herself she was in love with a narcissist she left me for who will never treat her as well as I did. She used me for as long as she could with no intentions of working things out, yet lied to the bitter end despite beng caught twice. I was loyal to the very end and in the end she is a QUITTER plain and simple. 

I was going to post about this but decided not to, but..... I have to point out our spouses are idiots! They carelessly threw away faithful people who have spent years caring for them for a fling or many flings. 

I can tell I'm going to have a tough time in my next couple of relationships and may find myself involved with women I don't really like in order to ease this sting. I may have to be the one to break up, which I am really not looking forward to, but hopefully by then I'll be better at psych and relationships so I can let them down honestly and easy before they spend useless months and energy on me. You see I'm already self-defeating.... I may have to wait a bit to get involved.


Oh, I forgot! One sign of growing contempt for you if direct displays of bad manners in your presence. Things like using your phone for long distance calls to the OM even though you've directly told them not to. Burping loudly in front of you. Farting and letting you "experience" it. Anything that qualifies as extremely rude and not overlooked. I'm not talking about letting a curse word slip of eating the last slice but the big things they should know not to do.... taking drugs in front of you, flirting with the OM/OW over the phone while you around, uncalled for comments on FB, you name it. Again, don't put up with this crap!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh, he started with bad manners, but much more subtle than what you mention. Always 'forgetting' to do things that would help me out, which put extra on me, stuff like that. The biggest one that really hurt was that he complained that I didn't do enough with him and his grad school friends. We didn't really have much in common, but when people came to our house he ignored me or talked around me as if I wasn't there when we'd go to a restaurant. He knows I grew up in a very controlling and isolated environment, and socializing around people I don't know is VERY difficult for me. But I tried because I didn't want to stay that way, and I wanted to do things with him that were important to him. So, he'd start conversations about the things they were studying in class that I knew nothing about and couldn't participate in, so I just felt totally out of place. Then when nobody could hear, tell me that things weren't going well or that I was awkward. Well that certainly helped! I was very self-conscious that I wasn't as formally educated as they all were (though I am by no means stupid), and I didn't want to embarrass him, so of course, I rarely went out with him after several tries. It was too painful and humiliating for me. Gave him another reason to criticize me and compare me unfavorably to the other women.

Funny though, since I've been living on my own, I've had people over to my place multiple times, and have gone to parties at other people's places and have been nowhere near as nervous or self-conscious. Hmm. I wonder why...

So, back to the OP -- I know enough. Though it still hurts every time I find out something new, it gets a little easier. I finally had to hear him tell me that he's in love. I saw him put his arm around her. A year ago, I'd have been in a fetal position crying myself sick over that. Now I know that, as Catherine said above, it's just not healthy or possible that he could truly be 'in love' this soon after a 15 year relationship. And he reiterated yesterday what he's said before that his decision to break up was not something he planned for months in advance. He told me he never agonized over it with his therapist -- he never talked about it with him at all. This was a relatively spur-of-the-moment action that he simply won't reconsider or rethink because he's incapable of empathy or of thinking he's done something wrong. If he feels it or wants it, it's OK for him to do. That's not someone who is healthy partner material. But then the OW isn't either. So, they're perfect for each other.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Angel honey, you can't keep beating yourself up over the past and what your H did to you while in his @$$hole phase. I know my wife did things like burning me for two anniversaries and birthdays, divorcing me in secrecy twice, and gaslighting non stop to avoid admitting her two EAs (that I know of). It's hard to think of your once one and only treating you like this, but you know this not the real person they are..... They are "acting like children" essentially and treating us like old toys.

I too got the "I love the OP" message, but in a very subtle way.... It hurt like hell! However, I know a thing or two about how attraction works and forms into long lasting relationships (from my pua days) and what I'm about to tell you will have you laughing your @$$ off at their pathetic relationship. You know it's not going to last, but not many people exactly why...... Relationships follow a certain dynamic of attraction>comfort>trust>seduction with each following the other in sequence but when they are formed very quickly and through deceipt as every affair is, comfort and trust are rushed and replaced with sex. 

In other words they grow too close too fast without registering any red flags and qualify each other with a premature "I love you". As good as this freshman puppy love relationship feels it wont last, simply because romantic affection and sex are used to cover for deeper communication and trust. Like they say sooner or later the sex dies down and every relationship and you're left with either the wrong person or your best friend. These relationships never last long.... both people can never trust each other because they cheated before and there's no guarantee it won't happen again. As I told my next door neighbor who dumped her H and jumped immediately into an EA/PA.... Enjoy it while you can because it will NOT last. 

It's very difficult to see yourself ever being nice to your former spouse again, especially with the way they treated you, and ending on good terms. Indeed you will need your time to recover (About 1 to 2+ yrs). However, the beauty of the 180 with you taking the higher path is that you end up with the grass much greener back on your side. And the emotional side of divorce lasts longer than the paper work will with many chances to run into each other what with split custody and an almost surreal lasting soul-mate connection. Over the next half decade I promise you will dream about each other and run into each other no matter how hard you try to escape. I know of couples reuniting 20+ years down the road and sharing grand children with no lingering hurt feelings. As hard as I try to get rid of my STBXW she pops back up every few months like herpes sores.


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## Davi (Apr 20, 2012)

If i will be at your place..I wouldn't
Because if i am going to divorce then to face more pain by knowing about another man in her life......


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## SRN (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm going to take this to another level, and mostly it applies to those of us without kids:

Do you want to know _anything_ about them ever again? I was thinking about this on the way to work, and I thought, "You know? No, I don't. I don't want to ever hear about her again."
We have one mutual friend now, and she's hopefully smart enough not to share anything with me about her. Other than that, aside from the possibility of a random run in, I shouldn't ever have to hear about her again. Its painful to admit that about the person you were so happy, so eager to share the rest of your life with, but there you have it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SRN said:


> I'm going to take this to another level, and mostly it applies to those of us without kids:
> 
> Do you want to know _anything_ about them ever again? I was thinking about this on the way to work, and I thought, "You know? No, I don't. I don't want to ever hear about her again."
> We have one mutual friend now, and she's hopefully smart enough not to share anything with me about her. Other than that, aside from the possibility of a random run in, I shouldn't ever have to hear about her again. Its painful to admit that about the person you were so happy, so eager to share the rest of your life with, but there you have it.


Ironically, you've now maximized the chance she will return.


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## SRN (Mar 20, 2012)

How is that?


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

I think I know what Conrad means. If I'm on the right track being dark and moving on with your life gives her time to miss you, and if you work on yourself and become a more confident, independent person, she may just feel attracted to you at some point down the road. 

The alternative if to enquire, show neediness, lack of confidence, etc., which would just drive her away.

That said (and in my case anyway), you might just be better off looking for greener pastures. Personally, I will not be giving my ex another chance to leave. She's wanted to leave three times, and the third strike was it.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

My STBXW left only once, and I don't think I could give her another chance to leave. Once was enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SRN (Mar 20, 2012)

canguy66 said:


> I think I know what Conrad means. If I'm on the right track being dark and moving on with your life gives her time to miss you, and if you work on yourself and become a more confident, independent person, she may just feel attracted to you at some point down the road.
> 
> The alternative if to enquire, show neediness, lack of confidence, etc., which would just drive her away.
> 
> That said (and in my case anyway), you might just be better off looking for greener pastures. Personally, I will not be giving my ex another chance to leave. She's wanted to leave three times, and the third strike was it.


Got it. I somehow doubt that that maximizes my chances of her returning considering this is what _she_ wanted, though. Perhaps there are examples, peer reviewed journals, ect that disproved my "feeling".  I just don't see how my willingness to just say, "F*ck it." and do all I can to make sure I _never_ hear anything about her again will make it more likely for her to come back. I just don't see the logic in that argument.

If she did try to come back, I don't think I could give her another chance. The level of her betrayal was to great. She can rot in hell with her decision.


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