# Something not talked about much



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I don't know about here, but at MMSL they don't talk too much about the actual act of making love. In my 23 year marriage with my wife only NOW have I been doing it right.
It's hard to tell a man, or have a man understand or accept that he sucks in bed. I used to be so predictable, routine and boring.

If I had to pick one area that I sense my wife adores is my current ability to connect with her body and female emotions more than I used to. I try to kiss or rub every friggen part of her body, with my hands, mouth face etc during sex. I smell her as if she was sent from heaven just for me. It's an experience that I have never had in the past and am so grateful to have finally "figured it out." (still learning)

At first my wife would actually laugh at me during the act, but I kept at it and low and behold, my "good girl" wife is turning into the sleezy milf I have always wanted.

Now I don't know if the red pill caused this to happen or what. To me it's kind of "what came first, the chicken or the egg" question. However, I think we men can all use some mechanical instruction to become better lovers. Any man can fk a woman, but it takes a lot of knowledge and hands on experience to really make "love" to a woman.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Contact Monica from Friends. She'll explain women's 7 erogenous zones for you :smthumbup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdK6LVDI3kg


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

badsanta said:


> INSTRUCTIONS TO INSERT TAB A INTO SLOT B:
> 
> Step 1: Ignore Tab A, it will not be needed for now.
> 
> ...


Step 9B: Insert and lodge butt plug into slot C until further notice.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

UMP said:


> Step 9B: Insert and lodge butt plug into slot C until further notice.


I need an advance notice for this.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

JustTired said:


> I need an advance notice for a this.


I just ask my W if she got the memo...


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> I just ask my W if she got the memo...


:lol:

Well, it is _technically_ an advance notice!!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Lila said:


> Step 9C: Extract Tab A's balls from abdomen following donkey kick to the cojones.


Well, that's the kicker (no pun intended).
In years past I would have indeed been kicked in the balls.
Nowadays, not so much, it's even encouraged 
Who'd a thunk it !!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

JustTired said:


> :lol:
> 
> Well, it is _technically_ an advance notice!!


True. But whether or not she got it is irrelevant. I proceed as drawn out in the said memo.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Lila said:


> Step 9C: Extract Tab A's balls from abdomen following donkey kick to the cojones.


If cojones are already extracted, how do you kick them? Like, punt em?


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## Vanille (Dec 13, 2014)

So basically the point of this thread is: you have good sex with your wife. lol! Well good! We usually hear complaints.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

UMP said:


> I don't know about here, but at MMSL they don't talk too much about the actual act of making love. In my 23 year marriage with my wife only NOW have I been doing it right.
> It's hard to tell a man, or have a man understand or accept that he sucks in bed. I used to be so predictable, routine and boring.
> 
> *If I had to pick one area that I sense my wife adores is my current ability to connect with her body and female emotions more than I used to.* *I try to kiss or rub every friggen part of her body, with my hands, mouth face etc during sex. I smell her as if she was sent from heaven just for me. It's an experience that I have never had in the past and am so grateful to have finally "figured it out." (still learning)*
> ...


I have that Book..it does speak to how Betas make better lovers because they are more giving & care about the woman's pleasure.. 

Reading your transformation...it's funny...our experience is upside down from yours... 

All I have ever known was "Making Love".. my H doesn't even like to use the word







...he feels so strongly about this... he's never pushed me for sex telling me he never wanted me to think it was "*just about sex*"..(his words) ... I think he went a little too high on the bar the other way (Mr sensual Romantic).. but no bad boy "taking his woman NOW" type thing.. he could have been a little closer to the center ....

Before coming to TAM.. I didn't realize the myriad of sexual issues out there..feeling the man just cared about his own, elusive orgasms, etc...

I remember reading one thread where this couple has done it ALL.... toys, role play, every position, outside, on the kitchen table...etc and he's asking "what NOW?".. he's bored, it's all lost it's flavor ...and it hit me....thinking ....How did we go 19 yrs being so vanilla and we never cared about ANY OF THOSE THINGS..... Gawd we must be B O R I N G with a capital B..... but it wasn't that.. 

We had the "Making Love"....every encounter we felt lost in each other....touching our souls & our minds along with the physical pleasure...something like this never grows old...it has a way of keeping those  's on our faces throughout the day...holding us emotionally within. 

I count this as the #1 reason we never got wild & Crazy with each other..

But then, like I mentioned.... my H has the opposite problem, he struggles to get ROUGH in bed..I bought that "Just F*** me" book for us to read... so we worked on some of that in mid life.... finally...always something to grow in.. and explore!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

"Any man can fk a woman, but it takes a lot of knowledge and hands on experience to really make "love" to a woman."


Preach!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Lila said:


> See picture for reference.


So the cojones aren't in her hand when she donkey kicks? Are they dangling from a rope behind her?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have that Book..it does speak to how Betas make better lovers because they are more giving & care about the woman's pleasure..
> 
> Reading your transformation...it's funny...our experience is upside down from yours...
> 
> ...


That is VERY interesting.
For me, REALLY making love was too touchy feely, too personal, I just could not do it. The weird part is that I always wanted my wife to get all wild and kinky. This ONLY happened once I started making real "love" to her.:scratchhead:


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

UMP said:


> That is VERY interesting.
> For me, REALLY making love was too touchy feely, too personal, I just could not do it. The weird part is that I always wanted my wife to get all wild and kinky. This ONLY happened once I started making real "love" to her.:scratchhead:


Many women need to feel safe, comfortable, and loved before they can get kinky. Maybe your extra attention was needed to get her there.


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## IWantGreatMarriage (May 20, 2014)

that.girl said:


> Many women need to feel safe, comfortable, and loved before they can get kinky. Maybe your extra attention was needed to get her there.


True that!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Lila said:


> ???:scratchhead:


N/M - reading comprehension problem on my part. Sorry for the tangent, but I had thought the cojones were extracted before the D/K. I now understand your instruction set.  (to avoid the need for step 9C, do not insert anything into slot C, or do so at own risk).


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> "Any man can fk a woman, but it takes a lot of knowledge and hands on experience to really make "love" to a woman."
> 
> 
> Preach!


I think the opposite to a certain extent. 

We must remember that a woman is not just an intelligent person, but also a sex object. We must also remember that we both want to be satisfied; when I was young I made huge efforts for the other - sheer vanity. Now I make sure I enjoy it too.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Whatever flowchart men are whipping out is the wrong flowchart according to 100% of all women ever.


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## Silly Husband (Aug 30, 2010)

"Step 9b: If needed, see diagram for Slot C, which is located directly behind Tab A. Directions to follow in next comment. (Edited afterwards to enhance instructions)"

Why are we donkey kicking???

Slot C is behind Tab A if I read step 9b correctly. I don't have a problem with it, but I understand on some models tab A becomes unusable when you attempt to plug slot C.

Followed the OP's experience and discovered if you check behind slot B, you will find a second slot C that can occasionally be accessed by tab A or other accessories (purchased seperately, batteries not included).


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

UMP said:


> *That is VERY interesting.
> For me, REALLY making love was too touchy feely, too personal, I just could not do it. The weird part is that I always wanted my wife to get all wild and kinky. This ONLY happened once I started making real "love" to her*.:scratchhead:


That's why I posted this on your thread...it's interesting for me to read of others transformations.. and it's crazy how different some men are from others.. 

I do WONDER how many men FEEL LIKE YOU ....and what causes this, it is past experiences...being uncomfortable with the emotional..I also feel it's a hormonal thing.... I've read a good bit about testosterone and when MEN are pretty HIGH in it (especially in their early years)... it can make them rather "too doggish" ...it's almost like you can't help it.. (as you age, your T levels Lower year by year... you become more "calm" / receptive, your estrogen goes UP a little (Men have some too).....and for us women...our T levels can RISE in Mid life.. which can also explain HER getting more Kinky- I went Crazy here myself -what led me to a sex forum -to be honest!.....

For instance, taken from this book  The Alchemy of Love and Lust: Books



> *As to Sexual roles -Testosterone *:
> 
> *Increases sexual thoughts & fantasies
> *Responds to Novelty , inspires one night stands & affairs
> ...


 I really believe that much of our Behaviors ARE influenced by the specific levels of hormones in our body at any given time. If any of these hormones are out of whack/lacking/too high, it can cause colossal problems -which can indeed affect our relationships. We may not act as we should, as nature intended. 

I know I married a calmer Test Guy...he does not masturbate hardly ever, he's up for cuddling ALWAYS...very touchy feely, If I am near, he's touching me.. He's always been on the calm side...Receptive, not one to need his space, rarely aggressive. 

He cares so much about my orgasm, he'd forgo his own & wait till I was into it...My pleasure is what gives him pleasure.. some women may not care for this, or feel pressured.. but I am not one of those..I greatly appreciate that he *is* this way..

Frankly I'd probably beat him over the head if he was a "wham/ bam" man & tell him his lover skills suck ! 

I just wouldn't have any patience with that at all... I've always felt deeply loved & connected...even if we didn't always put it into words or really OPEN UP the sex talk...yet it was something ever FELT between us..



> *that.girl said: **Many women need to feel safe, comfortable, and loved before they can get kinky. Maybe your extra attention was needed to get her there.*


 So true.. although I was never one to push the kink in our past... I feel I was somewhat repressed associating certain acts with Porn (which I was against back then)...this should have never been... I have lived & learn here.... but I've always initiated & took what I wanted when I wanted it..the aggressiveness was there.. I just wasn't "let out of the cage" yet...



> *Mr The Other said :* *I think the opposite to a certain extent.
> 
> We must remember that a woman is not just an intelligent person, but also a sex object. We must also remember that we both want to be satisfied; when I was young I made huge efforts for the other - sheer vanity. Now I make sure I enjoy it too.*


This was part of a post I did on my thread trying to get my Husband "rougher" in bed.. .I understand exactly where you are coming from...there is a perfect "balance" in this we should all be reaching for.... 



> *How Useful is a little SELFISHNESS IN SEX??* We were talking this morning, we've had this discussion before ....I've told him I'd like to feel some "selfishness" from him....in one of my Sex books (written by a Sex Therapist) said this is one area we WANT some selfishness......feeling our partners selfishly want gratified -just as we do - this is at the heart of LUST/ eroticism - it fuels something in us... doesn't it ??
> 
> See, he thinks being selfish is....well....just Selfish, he doesn't even like the word, feels it has no place in SEX at all ...
> 
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> I don't know about here, but at MMSL they don't talk too much about the actual act of making love. In my 23 year marriage with my wife only NOW have I been doing it right.
> It's hard to tell a man, or have a man understand or accept that he sucks in bed. I used to be so predictable, routine and boring.
> 
> If I had to pick one area that I sense my wife adores is my current ability to connect with her body and female emotions more than I used to. I try to kiss or rub every friggen part of her body, with my hands, mouth face etc during sex. I smell her as if she was sent from heaven just for me. It's an experience that I have never had in the past and am so grateful to have finally "figured it out." (still learning)
> ...



You are wondering if the fact that you think she's a hypergamous wh*ore is what made her like this? This is confusing, since that's what the red pill is all about.

What Is The Red Pill? - Business Insider


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> You are wondering if the fact that you think she's a hypergamous wh*ore is what made her like this? This is confusing, since that's what the red pill is all about.
> 
> What Is The Red Pill? - Business Insider


Not exactly sure what you mean. Let me explain my side better.
I am not certain how after 23 years of marriage why I'm having the best sex of my life. Did swallowing the red pill do it, or did my increased capabilities in bed do it? They both seemed to happen simultaneously.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Did you really swallow the red pill? As in, do you really think women are hypergamous wh*res?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

they're not?!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> they're not?!


Well, *I* am, but that doesn't mean they ALL are. Just like you possibly have salmonella on your shell, but not all turtles do.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I would not have gotten salmonella if not for some hypergamous wh*re


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> Did you really swallow the red pill? As in, do you really think women are hypergamous wh*res?


maybe he is not aware of all of this, I know I certainly was NOT.. If you look up the meaning you can also find something as simple as this definition below...I personally never seen *the Matrix* -so I don't fully get what they are talking about - it wasn't about women in the movie , was it ? ....

"Redpill: Urban Dictionary: red pill

"To open someone's eyes and mind to the secret truth of something important."


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The article I linked on the last page has a better over view of the topic, SA.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> I would not have gotten salmonella if not for some hypergamous wh*re


You knew what it was when you picked it up.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Did you really swallow the red pill? As in, do you really think women are hypergamous wh*res?


Sure she is, but in a nice way.
If I were a woman I would try to find everything in a man that would raise my station in life, for myself and my children. Loving him would indeed be icing on the cake.
The "nice part" is that I believe she loves me for the simple fact that she has stayed with me through some REALLY tough times.

BTW: I tell my wife that if she thinks she can find someone better than me, "go for it."


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> The article I linked on the last page has a better over view of the topic, SA.


Only he could answer what the word means to him personally, or where he picked it up.... the 1st time I heard about the* Blue* & the *Red* ... I said to myself I am a *RED PILL Person* all the way because I hate the idea of being naive, being in the dark, I want the truth, as harsh as it may be - give it to me!!.... that's what I would choose, but again, I never associated it with the article you laid out here, saying all this about women..

This has to be some offshoot movement after the movie ... No ? But hey.. good to learn..


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

UMP said:


> Not exactly sure what you mean. Let me explain my side better.
> I am not certain how after 23 years of marriage why I'm having the best sex of my life. Did swallowing the red pill do it, or did my increased capabilities in bed do it? They both seemed to happen simultaneously.


After 23 years does seem amazing. Generally, sex improves over the first year or so, but after that I find a plateau. Good for you.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> Sure she is, but in a nice way.
> If I were a woman I would try to find everything in a man that would raise my station in life, for myself and my children. Loving him would indeed be icing on the cake.
> The "nice part" is that I believe she loves me for the simple fact that she has stayed with me through some REALLY tough times.
> 
> BTW: I tell my wife that if she thinks she can find someone better than me, "go for it."


Why not just ask her then? Does she know the full meaning behind MMSL? If she does, then she can tell you if it is just her hamster who loves you, or the core of her hypergamy who loves you.

I'm just ribbing you, as you can tell.

Believe it or not, some women are already hot horny wh*res for our partners without having to be treated differently, ala MMSL first. Some women actually do know what they want, and sometimes that is actually a beta man. Some women just aren't that sexual, even though MMSL would make you believe that they ALL are if you just punch the right code. Some men just aren't that sexual either, even though MMSL would make you believe that you'd better always be DTF or no woman will EVER want you. Some men are Sex Gods (or "naturals" as the red pill group calls them) without also believing that women don't know what they want...in fact, usually a Sex God realizes that women know explicitly what they want and they can deliver it. 

I'm not a fan of MMSL, nor am I a fan of some books and programs for women that try to make men seem like bumbling buffoons and give instructions on how to dupe them out of their money.

Though I am a fan of great sex and great relationships, so I'm happy for yours. :smthumbup:


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Only he could answer what the word means to him personally, or where he picked it up.... the 1st time I heard about the* Blue* & the *Red* ... I said to myself I am a *RED PILL Person* all the way because I hate the idea of being naive, being in the dark, I want the truth, as harsh as it may be - give it to me!!.... that's what I would choose, but again, I never associated it with the article you laid out here, saying all this about women..
> 
> This has to be some offshoot movement after the movie ... No ? But hey.. good to learn..


I was blue pill for 20 years. Been studying red pill for maybe 2 years. Lost 40 pounds, got my hobbies back, stopped saying "I love you" every 5 figgen minutes, stopped caring about being turned down for sex, etc. etc. Wife went from reluctant starfish to nasty milf :smthumbup:
The weird part, as I said in op is that I have become a much better "lover" but I'm still left with the "chicken or egg" question.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It was most likely the 40 pounds and the increase in self-confidence. However, MMSL is not "only" about those things...why call it red pill? Why not just ask "hey do you think that my increased confidence and lost 40 pounds might be what is behind my wife's increased desire for sex?" Answer = most likely yes.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

women's limbic systems are easily manipulated, just ask Bill Cosby


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Why not just ask her then? Does she know the full meaning behind MMSL? If she does, then she can tell you if it is just her hamster who loves you, or the core of her hypergamy who loves you.
> 
> I'm just ribbing you, as you can tell.
> 
> ...


I believe my wife wants big beta AND big Alpha. Before red pill I was a repressed alpha reluctantly displaying beta. This resulted in crappy sex for 20 years. I kid you not, after 23 years of marriage I am having the BEST sex of my life, sans exception.
It still blows my mind. That's why I like to talk about it so much And would like to help others.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I do believe you, completely. I'm just saying you could have stumbled upon another book, program or system, and if you lost the 40 pounds and increased your confidence, you may have had the same results.

Just realize YOU are the one who is creating those results, not MMSL or anything or anyone else. You and your wife have good chemistry, and you found out how to engage it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Also wanted to add...it could also have to do with maturity on both of your parts. We do tend to gain maturity as we age (if we're lucky) and good sex requires some maturity and self-awareness.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> It was most likely the 40 pounds and the increase in self-confidence. However, MMSL is not "only" about those things...why call it red pill? Why not just ask "hey do you think that my increased confidence and lost 40 pounds might be what is behind my wife's increased desire for sex?" Answer = most likely yes.


The reason for my change is mostly a secret in our relationship. I only told her that I did not want to be the stereotypical fat couch potato husband that rots to death eating chips and cheese watching TV.
I told her "I want to be the best person I can be." I left it at that.

She has told me more than once "how can sex be this good after 23 years?"
I would rather leave it a "mystery" for my wife. Women love mysteries.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> women's limbic systems are easily manipulated, just ask Bill Cosby


I'm sorry for what he did to you AR, I know it is hard to talk about. :absolut::absolut:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> The reason for my change is mostly a secret. *I only told her that I did not want to be the stereotypical fat couch potato husband that rots to death eating chips and cheese watching TV.
> I told her "I want to be the best person I can be." I left it at that.*
> 
> She has told me more than once "how can sex be this good after 23 years?"
> I would rather leave it a "mystery" for my wife. Women love mysteries.


A statement like that (combined with actually DOING what you said you'd do) would tend to turn on most people.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

UMP said:


> Women love mysteries.


explains why my wife likes Murder She Wrote and Psyche


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I do believe you, completely. I'm just saying you could have stumbled upon another book, program or system, and if you lost the 40 pounds and increased your confidence, you may have had the same results.
> 
> Just realize YOU are the one who is creating those results, not MMSL or anything or anyone else. You and your wife have good chemistry, and you found out how to engage it.


Yes, I believe you are correct. One thing I also noticed is that my wife hates weakness in men in general and me in particular. I have had a severe heart attack, 7 cardiversions and 3 heart oblations for afib. She takes care of me and helps me, but I can tell it pisses her off to see me weak. I also stopped telling her about my problems. In fact, I try not to let her see any weakness in me at all. Just last week I had my third ablation and she kept asking me if I was frightened. I said "no" and acted like it was no big deal......but I was frightened. I guess if a man wants GREAT sex he has to be..........a man.

BTW: this was in a span of 6 years. I feel great, now.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Oh dear....well, I'm married to a Sex God, and I would think it was odd for him to NOT be frightened about a medical procedure. I would think there is something wrong with that. So your last sentence..."I guess if a man wants great sex he has to be .... a man" is hogwash. It may apply to your wife in the way you think, but it certainly doesn't apply to all women or all men. 

One of the main problems with MMSL is that it attempts to paint all men and all women with the same brush.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh dear....well, I'm married to a Sex God, and I would think it was odd for him to NOT be frightened about a medical procedure. I would think there is something wrong with that. So your last sentence..."I guess if a man wants great sex he has to be .... a man" is hogwash. It may apply to your wife in the way you think, but it certainly doesn't apply to all women or all men.
> 
> One of the main problems with MMSL is that it attempts to paint all men and all women with the same brush.


I think it does apply to my wife. I used to tell her all my worries and fears. Now, I simply do not. All this red pill stuff happened so fast and simultaneously so it's difficult for me to figure out what specific change in me carried the most weight. I do know that at the lowest point in our sex life she told me "you're so needy", which set off a huge alarm in my head.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

UMP said:


> Yes, I believe you are correct. One thing I also noticed is that my wife hates weakness in men in general and me in particular. I have had a severe heart attack, 7 cardiversions and 3 heart oblations for afib. She takes care of me and helps me, but I can tell it pisses her off to see me weak. I also stopped telling her about my problems. In fact, I try not to let her see any weakness in me at all. Just last week I had my third ablation and she kept asking me if I was frightened. I said "no" and acted like it was no big deal......but I was frightened. I guess if a man wants GREAT sex he has to be..........a man.
> 
> BTW: this was in a span of 6 years. I feel great, now.


I think this is one of the things behind man-flu. Women would much rather think the man was making a fuss and faking the rash and temperature than accept the weakness on his part. It is a perverse kindness.


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