# For the WS and BS in the early years



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

For the WS and BS in the early years

This post is mostly for those that want and seek reconciliation. I know that in some cases reconciliation is NOT the best option.

I read a post by John Adams and it brought to my mind a few things that may be of help to the WS and BS in the early years of R.


Regaining trust


> *By John Adams*
> Regaining trust takes years. So, one of the things that people early on in reconciliation may not want to hear is it takes years of proving herself. Words are not enough


I know that some WS/BS want trust to be regained in the first year or two. That is understandable as when trust is broken it shakes the person up big time! I know of no couple that regained trust in the first year and in fact in some cases it takes decades. Even though the WS/BS desperately wants the trust to be regained do not have the expectations that it can be accomplishes in the first year. To expect that to happen will probably have you greatly disappointed and wanting to give up.

John Adams did not post that because he is giving you a theory; he has 30 years of successful R.




Devastation

The first year is the hardest devastation for most. I think that one of the best actions that the WS/BS can take is to take actions that will build up your self esteem. I am not saying that you totally ignore your spouse I am saying that you need to pay a LOT of attention to building yourself up. The infidelity will hit you so hard in your self worth that you will drop to your knees. Sometimes I have seen the spouse be so diligently trying to please or appease the other spouse that they fall behind on building themselves up. In the first year both spouses are so weak that they cannot be much help to the other unless they are built up.

Do not fall into the trap that building yourself up is selfish. Do try to get a balance of building yourself up and helping your souse when possible but remember a devastated person cannot be much help others; they are just too weak.



Death of ONE part of love

[


> B]By John Adams[/B]
> It is a shame that my and other’s marriage has this deep blemish. It is like a death. You never fully heal from a death. You learn to deal with it.
> I also said that one thing an affair says to the betrayed spouse is, *I do not know how much you love me, but I know that it is less than I one time thought*.


OUCH!!!! I do not post this to depress anyone but I believe it is a truth that is going to be found out sooner or later. Just like John, I had to face the fact that my wife did not love me like I thought. Maybe my thoughts are too ideal but I never thought that my wife would ever replace me with another man. Not in a million years or forever! That belief gave me strength. There is a PART of my love that took a hit. It is not a hit that has to break the love it just loses one special area. That special area for me was that I thought that she would always have by back and never totally reject me. My ideal balloon was popped and will never be the same but that is not the whole enchilada.






ROCKY Balboa time!

If reconciliation is possible, and is both of your decision, and you are ready to fight like hell to get better then get ready for a Rocky (Sylvester Stallone) Balboa comeback!

I think that this TAM site is very lucky to have people like Mr. and Mrs. John Adams. *The reason that I say that is that you have two people that have been very successful and love each other more than before the infidelity*. In addition, you have someone that is not giving you a theory but THIRTY YEARS of real life living experience. I played a lot of sports and coached a lot of teams and I learned that it is the person that wins more than losing over many years that make for a successful career. They are also the ones that I learned from. Success with longevity tells me that the person that accomplishes that is doing a LOT right!

Mr. and Mrs. Adams got knocked to the ground but they got back up and fought their way to victory. Rocky was just a movie that represented the exhilaration of coming back to win a boxing match. *Mr. and Mrs. Adams have performed this great comeback in real life with one of the longest and toughest test in life; long term successful marriage*. That is more exhilarating than a movie about a boxing match.

I have often seen couples that are uncomfortable with having themselves presented as an example to learn from but the facts speak for themselves and you can read the facts below: 



> *Quotes of John Adams*
> Well, I never thought that this could happen, but, *I love my wife more than ever. I know she loves me more than ever*. We are in the best place we have ever been in our marriage. We feel like newlyweds. We stare in each other’s eyes and see the love. We cannot get enough of each other. We have wonderful sex. I am just glad we are at this point and this is a good time to reach our climax of love. Retirement is in our near future and I cannot wait to spend all my time with my beautiful wife.
> 
> So, what is the moral of this story? Time and Love. It takes time and love



If you agree that REGAINING TRUST, DEVASTATION, DEATH OF ONE PART OF LOVE, and ROCKY BALBOA TIME are important for TAM readers then please give your thoughts as we an all learn from other points of view


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I know that R is difficult at best, even with a remorseful WS who is doing the heavy lifting. And there will be setbacks on the way, either on the BS's part or the WS's part. And no WS can be remorseful 100% of the time and do everything perfect, its not humanly possible. That's another difficult part of R.

But in time, with both spouses working at it, the highs and lows of the emotional roller coaster starts to level out and not be so bad. Transparency does help the hypervigilance to fade, provided the BS does not find anything else out. 

If the BS continues to find out more facts/info about the affair because of Trickle Truth, that keeps resetting the clock to zero, and it endangers R. 

Triggers NEVER go away, but they can come less frequently and affect you less. This is my second rodeo at being betrayed. My XW cheated on me, I tried to force R, but I ended up divorcing her. With this fWW, I'm in R only because she earned it and continues to earn it.


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

This is a great post Mr. Blunt. 

It made me cry, because this where I am right now. It's been 10 months and I still don't know if I can go on with it. Despite my WS doing a lot of heavy lifting, constant reassurances and complete openness, I still don't know if I can keep going on with it. The betrayal is just to deep, to painful, to ongoing. 

It would be easier in so many ways to just cut and run, there would be different fears I would have to face if I were to go, but the sense of betrayal was so utterly devastating, the constant triggers of doubt so consuming, that I get too tired to continue on with it all sometimes. Today is one of those days.

Yet "something" keeps pulling me onwards. Don't ask me what that is. 

I know I could make it on my own. Yet here I still am.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

This is a very good post, Mr. Blunt. Very balanced, I would say.

I agree with most of it being almost three years out. I'm not entirely through this sandwich yet, but anger and resentment has faded away.

I would like to put emphasis on one part of your post, and that's the part about not being loved the way you thought. When all your illusions come crashing down and the bare truth just stares back at you, you have a loss to deal with. For me; this loss has left me with an undefined and seemingly unresolvable sadness to live with.

But hey, it's just three years, there will hopefully be many more years to come. I really want the present moment to be a good one, try to focus on it, moving forward, slowly getting better at things day by day.

Also, I would like to say, that time tables vary from individual toi individual, from couple to couple, depending on the attitude of the WS and how much the BS was invested in the relationship and probably a lot of other different factors.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Love between two people evolves over time. Along the way good things happen and bad things happen. I would say my feelings for my wife have changed quite a bit since before her EA in 2011.

Our marriage is more mature - we both know either has the choice to end it at any time for any reason. Trailing alongside this comes the realization there really are no rules, just choices. Neither of us are so religious we feel bound to stay together for that sake. 

I definitely understand my wife better than I ever have. With this comes bad and good. She's become more predictable, and I can prepare for what's coming. That said, when the covers come off, sometimes you don't like everything underneath. There are some things about my wife that bother me, but at the same time I'm glad I have a better understanding of what they are. As you are with someone for many years, you slowly get to know them better over that time. I think the best way I can describe it is that before her EA I had a few year lull of not learning, not getting to know her better, and post-EA, the learning process accelerated, and I'm peeling covers off really quickly, seeing more, bad and good.

Our kids are getting older. Two of them will be off to college in 18 months. The other is 3 years behind them. Really, we are in a holding pattern for a little while. We've talked about what we would like to do once we are empty-nesters. Our previous plans before the EA are no longer set in stone. We're kind of taking a wait-and-see approach, hopeful, but realistic. Do I think we'll make it? Probably, but I can't say for sure. And I think that's a more healthy prediction than the unequivocal "YES".


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> We have been reconciled for thirty years....just like in any marriage...there are no guarantees. But I will say this...if we ever get a divorce...it will NOT be because of my affair thirty years ago. It will be because we failed at something now. I think our chances of divorce are very slim...because we learned from my affair. We never take what we have for granted, we always put the others feelings first, we constantly reassure each other, we respect each other, and we will do whatever it takes to keep our love growing and thriving. It is a privilege to be married to my husband, an honor. I will never forget that.


And this is why I think you'll probably make it - you're gratefull/thankfull instead of entitled and resentfull and you're not taking your husband for granted.

My wife had a period after her affair where she believed I had to win her back. Now she knows that there are other fish in the sea for me as well.

And no, like Gabriel, I don't have any illusions about our senior years either, they'll bring whatever will at that time when we get there.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mr Blunt, thank you for starting this thread.

I belong to a select group – BS who discovered the betrayal only years after the fact. This circumstance brings its own set of challenges for R. In fact, it’s not even R in the literal sense (“to cause people or groups to become friendly again after an argument or disagreement”). We were never torn asunder by the affair as it was happening because I was unaware of it. When I found out by accident the real affair (EA + possible PA of several years’ duration) was long over. In this case the better use of R is for Recovery. Or Rebooting.

The main problem here, in addition to coming to terms with the betrayal itself, is how to interpret the intervening years in light of this new information. Everything becomes subject to re-evaluation. This is where the BS rather than the WS starts to rewrite marital history. Were you thinking of OM whenever we had sex during the last 10 years? Did you meet up with him during your annual convention trips? Why did you start buying thong underwear at just that particular time? Not only does the BS realize that the WS isn’t who you thought they were (all BS’s have to deal with this), but the marriage itself suddenly seems like a sham. Especially in the years since the affair. “The old marriage is dead” is certainly a conclusion reached by most BS’ upon discovering an ongoing affair, but what about an affair in the past? Does an affair ended in 1998 and discovered in 2006 mean that the years in between are “dead”? Yes and no. If you are confident the affair was really over then your spouse was genuinely acting like one, but you also have the knowledge that *he/she was perfectly OK with essentially treating you like a dupe in order to make things easy for him/herself. For the rest of your lives.* Here is an added dimension of hurt and damage that needs to be repaired, and I think it’s one that is especially difficult for the WS to understand and do the “heavy lifting” for. “It’s been over for years, means nothing now. I’m sorry. I’ve been on the straight and narrow ever since--what more can I do?” I really couldn’t answer that question, but I know that she had to do *something.* When you throw trickle-truth into the mix, even so long after the fact, it makes things very much worse. The WS like Mrs John Adams who fully confess of their own accord in real or near-real time do the cause of their reconciliation a great service.

This is not to say that cases like mine are more difficult to heal than others—as Mrs JA said recently “It’s all bad.” But there is that extra level of betrayal for the WS to make up for. Just my $.02. Kinda rambling, I know.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Double post


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

AWESOME post Mr. Blunt.

I especially liked the part of the death of one part of love.

Something that hurts a lot is the loss of blissful innocence (and ignorance) in love... the belief that our love had no bounds, that it could only go up from here; only to realize that his love had a ceiling.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I could have forever kept my mouth shut and not told my husband. Thirty years later...there is a part of me that wishes I had done just that. It would have kept my husband from suffering pain, triggers, etc. Now it is impossible to guess how life would have turned out had I not confessed and I can't change anything that transpired.


I'd be very interested in JA's take. Just speculating, of course, but I suspect if you hadn't said anything, Mrs JA, you would have been the one to live with 30 years of triggers, and responses to them that would have left JA mystified (and probably wondering what he was doing wrong).

Each relationship is unique, of course. For me, your telling JA the unvarnished truth showed respect for him.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I appreciated your post very much, Mr Blunt.

One part that jumped out at me was the "Devastation" section. I know I sure have been devastated by this. 

But many people fail to recognize that some WS's are too. Maybe they are in the minority. And maybe they are like giant ocean liners that don't turn around very quickly. Their behaviors early on may not indicate much devastation - we BS's are often too traumatized ourselves to see anything that's less than instant, total devotion to our healing as not getting with the program. 

But if we really love each other, compassion has to go two ways. 

The WS may want to help, but may not know how. And they may have some "issues" of their own (in my husband's case, both physical and mental health concerns) that were problems going into the affair, and which may continue to be problems that hamper one's ability to "be there" fully for the BS. If the WS tries, and there is ample evidence that the effort and remorse are truly there, I think that's what counts (and of course, the affair must be over - there was no question of that in our case). Slip-ups happen (his anxiety still makes him crabby sometimes), and in our case, new medical problems got in the way also (this may have added to his irritability, too!). We've missed a lot of MC due to his treatments and medical appointments.

It's a fine line between making excuses and recognizing when someone is trying but has some physical and/or mental health issues that make the progress not as linear as you'd like. But even in the absence of such issues, WS's are human beings too, and if they happen to be devastated by what they've done, and if it's very much out of character for them (my husband is really ashamed of himself), they are going to be a little off balance for awhile and probably not perfect in their approach to helping the BS. They're likely to fumble around and not "do it right" and the BS will be super-sensitive and that's why it's such a roller coaster at first.

But, at least we know that's to be expected. And, with *time and love*, there is HOPE.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I think it would be harder to be in Phillat's shoes and not only discover it years later, but not really get full information. Phillat, you can't even tell yourself if your W had a PA or not. That is a real problem, because you don't trust you are getting full honesty and disclosure. Add on top of that, the point you make, where you wonder when your wife was genuinely yours for a stretch of several years. Point is, you'll never know. And yes, in your case I would feel that chunk of my marriage was a sham.

When I caught my wife's EA, the events that occurred immediately before and after were caught in this web of pit-of-my-stomach awfulness. Celebrated my 40th birthday with 30-35 friends at a place where you do an activity. It was a fun party, but that milestone and event will forever be tainted. Mother's Day was right after DDay. We have some pictures of us from that day, dressed nicer, in nice spots along a river - all on Facebook. When I look at them I get sad and angry. Because during that time, my wife was still in love with her OM.

But to have YEARS of that would be far more difficult. To me, life is about the memories you make. When you can't have genuine memories from a true, good place, what do you have?

See, the WS doesn't get this. They can't. I'm not picking on Phillat's situation, but it's to make a point. Your very reality is completely altered when the ONE person you trust with your life, your heart, your vulnerability, the one safe place you can be, shows you none of that is true.

Its like living in a house your entire life; bedtime stories, supper at the table, roaring fires in pajamas, beers on the deck holding your child, etc, and BOOM, it suddenly burns down in one instant, and there is no "home", no safe place in the world.

"Devastation" is the best word to describe it. Or "loss". It is a monumental task to overcome it. Those of us here that have are a special breed of rhinoceros. Our skin has calloused and we can take on just about anything. But we are also prepared to leave if we have to, to take that next step to protect ourselves.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Philat said:


> I'd be very interested in JA's take. Just speculating, of course, *but I suspect if you hadn't said anything, Mrs JA, you would have been the one to live with 30 years of triggers, and responses to them that would have left JA mystified *(and probably wondering what he was doing wrong).
> 
> Each relationship is unique, of course. For me, your telling JA the unvarnished truth showed respect for him.


This is a difficult one, and an unpopular approach on TAM. She did not do this however. Had she not told me I would have never have known. I do not think I would have suspected it. 

I do not know for sure the effects this would have had on Mrs. JA had she not told me, however, she has the ability to bury past traumas. She was molested as a child, yet never thinks about it and has it buried. I think even though she told me about her affair, she had the ability to bury it and move on. I was the one that could not bury it. It ate me alive. She thought why can you just not move on? It took me years to move on, see the remorse. It took her years to see the trauma and pain she caused. We deal with trauma and pain much different.

The risk in not telling is; what if someday you do find out? What if 20 years later you find out your spouse was having an affair? The BS would start at ground zero, the WS would be 20 years out.

In a case where there is 100% or close certainty that your spouse would never find out, is it better to tell to clear your conscious and hurt your spouse or live with the guilt yourself?

I do not think I would want to live with not knowing, but then, I would not know. I think it is unhealthy to live with such devastating secrets. 

In my case I do know all that happened. I know the little details. Perhaps I know too much of what happened. Mrs. JA has apologized for telling me too many details, but, that was the truth of how she felt at the time. So, as hurtful as the truth is I think that is what we want. Actually we just want the whole damn thing to go away.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

John, this is the subject of huge debate all over the world. To tell or not to tell - the pros and cons.

My take - if my wife had a ONS one time, with someone she never saw or spoke to again, and they used protection, and she never did that again with him or anyone else, I would not want to know.

If my wife had feelings for someone else for awhile and kept that from me, and the feelings faded over time, I think I WOULD want to know that, because there is meaning there.

If my wife had more than one ONS, or had a somewhat brief PA that included a few encounters, I would definitely want to know, and unfortunately, I'd leave the relationship. 

Just one person's take.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Death of ONE part of love
> 
> *By John Adams*
> It is a shame that my and other’s marriage has this deep blemish. It is like a death. You never fully heal from a death. You learn to deal with it.
> ...



The above section seemed to hit a nerve with at least three posters; CPACAN, Philat, and Miss Taken. I will admit that after 25+ years of R this one is the one that can still sting a little bit. The REGAINING TRUST is 90%+ restored, the DEVASTATION is 90%+ gone, and the ROCKY BALBOA TIME can still be exhilarating when I read stories like Mr. and Mrs. JA!

I am going to guess as to what each poster meant by posting their reply below and then my response will follow.



> *CPACAN*
> I would like to put emphasis on one part of your post, and that's the part about not being loved the way you thought. When all your illusions come crashing down and the bare truth just stares back at you, you have a loss to deal with. For me; this loss has left me with an undefined and seemingly unresolvable sadness to live with.
> 
> But hey, it's just three years, there will hopefully be many more years to come. I really want the present moment to be a good one, try to focus on it, moving forward, slowly getting better at things day by day.
> ...


s.

You are right CPACAN time tables and attitudes do vary. I hope that in time your sadness disappears 100%. However, in my case I have learned to accept the fact that part on my love/admiration has experienced a permanent death.* Let me say this; my wife has a good heart, she has a lot of good points and I love many of her ways. I have a very deep emotional connection to her that I will never have with any other woman.* That does not allow me to deny my truth that a special part on my admiration of her is dead. As I said I may be too much of an idealist but I thought that she would be so loyal and love me so much that she would give her life for me. *That idealistic illusion is dead.*






> *By Philat*
> you also have the knowledge that he/she was perfectly OK with essentially treating you like a dupe in order to make things easy for him/herself. For the rest of your lives. Here is an added dimension of hurt and damage that needs to be repaired


Philat, my guess is that you never thought that your wife would be perfectly OK with treating you like a dupe in a situation like you had with your wife. Maybe your admiration for her and confidence in her in that area will be restored in time. Like CPACAN said couples have different time tables and attitudes. I sure hope you can restore your situation so that your hurt is no more. I just know that in my situation one of the special loves/admirations that I had is dead.







> *
> By Miss Taken*
> I especially liked the part of the death of one part of love.
> Something that hurts a lot is the loss of blissful innocence (and ignorance) in love... the belief that our love had no bounds, that it could only go up from here; only to realize that his *love had a ceiling.*


Yes Miss Taken mine was blissful innocence/ignorance and blissful idealism. I now know that there is definitely a ceiling in our love. That is a reality that is kind of a buzz kill for an ideal that so exhilarates the heart and soul.

That is my experience, one of a permanent death for ONE part of my love, and *if any of you can resurrect a part of your love/admiration that was crushed or killed then please post that story.* If nothing else I can vicariously live through your victory.


I also want to add this. Even though one part of my love is dead there are other parts that have been 90% + restored and in a select few even better than before the A. *Bottom line for me is that I have a very good life and am very close to all my family members and I am very grateful to God for that!*


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

There's a lot of good stuff in this thread. JA and Mrs JA especially. As well as OP. 

Philat - I know what you mean. I had some of the same questions/struggles you've mentioned since I found out about the affairs 20 years after. My wife managed to bury it and claims she went years without thinking of it. But it was always there for her. She triggered once about 15 years later during a bible study for women. She had to leave crying.

I do know this: if I had found out when it was happening I most certainly would have gotten a divorce. For that I am thankful I did not find out until I did.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm definitely in the "I want to know" category, even for an isolated ONS. If I didn't, even in a case like this, there would be some POS guy out there who knows something about my W that I don't. I can't accept that. I recognize that there are merits to the opposite argument as well.

I agree with JA that it could be destructive to the marriage in other ways if one partner keeps a secret of this magnitude. Plus who knows -- even if a WS were appalled at what they had done, if they were to keep it secret might it not be easier to yield to temptation in the future if one knew one had "got away with it" once already? Just thinking out loud, not referring to anyone specifically here (certainly not Mrs JA!). 

Gabe: No, I don't know if my W had a PA or not. But I do know that it would not be a deal-breaker after all this time. Therefore, I assume she did and go from there. With regard to this:

_But we are also prepared to leave if we have to, to take that next step to protect ourselves. _

Amen. Things got much better for me when I got to this point.

Mr Blunt: For me the issue of telling vs. not telling is one of respect. My W was prepared to disrespect me (including in the eyes of people who knew what she had done) by keeping this secret from me. She was not doing it to spare my feelings, that's for sure. She and I have confronted this explicitly, and I'm happy to say have been able to move past it. She understands.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

confusedFather said:


> There's a lot of good stuff in this thread. JA and Mrs JA especially. As well as OP.
> 
> Philat - I know what you mean. I had some of the same questions/struggles you've mentioned since I found out about the affairs 20 years after. My wife managed to bury it and claims she went years without thinking of it. But it was always there for her. She triggered once about 15 years later during a bible study for women. She had to leave crying.
> 
> I do know this: if I had found out when it was happening I most certainly would have gotten a divorce. For that I am thankful I did not find out until I did.


Understood, Confused. I can see your side of the "to know or not to know" argument. How did your W's affairs (plural?) come to light?


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

She had two ONSs about 16 months apart. After the first one she felt bad and confessed to her mother. She told no one about the second. I found out about the first because my MIL wanted revenge on my wife for cutting her out of our lives. She called me at work and left a voice mail telling me that she wanted to cause us as much pain as possible. My MIL has lied about so many things I didn't immediately believe it but was concerned. I asked my wife if it was true and she started crying and admitted that is was. During the immediate discussion she told me about the second.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

confusedFather said:


> She had two ONSs about 16 months apart. After the first one she felt bad and confessed to her mother. She told no one about the second. I found out about the first because my MIL wanted revenge on my wife for cutting her out of our lives. She called me at work and left a voice mail telling me that she wanted to cause us as much pain as possible. My MIL has lied about so many things I didn't immediately believe it but was concerned. I asked my wife if it was true and she started crying and admitted that is was. During the immediate discussion she told me about the second.


Ah, yes, I remember that story. Glad you are OK now.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> That is my experience, one of a permanent death for ONE part of my love, and *if any of you can resurrect a part of your love/admiration that was crushed or killed then please post that story.* If nothing else I can vicariously live through your victory.




Mr. Blunt, I was in the position of where part of my love and admiration for my wife was killed but has been resurrected. When I first came here I felt I had never received complete and sincere remorse from my wife. Yes, we had lived together in love for 30 years, we raised a wonderful family, but, something was missing.

I pretty much felt I would have to live the rest of my life with this missing piece. Life was probably as good as it gets. Our innocence was stolen. I now know my wife does not love me as much as I one time thought. That is just the cost of adultery I thought. 

However, I posted here; What is remorse? I received many answers ranging from divorce her now, do the 180, to she has already shown you remorse. One of the people who gave me excellent guidance and who I listened to was you Mr. Blunt. If I recall, it was you that said she loves you and has proven it by being a faithful wife for 30 years.

I gave much thought to this. Yes, she loves me. She has demonstrated it for 30 years. I told her I was on TAM. I sent her the link to "How to help your spouse heal from your affair". She read the book, it touched her heart. She reached out to me. She truly understood the pain she had caused me. She joined TAM. She has supported my thoughts on TAM and has taken more than her share of flak for being here.

All of this gave me the final piece of the puzzle. The final item I needed to move on. Yes, our innocence can never return. However, I know I love her more than ever. I know she loves me more than ever. The love and admiration damaged due to her affair has been restored. I was willing and happy to live with what we had repaired. In no way did I ever feel we could return to the complete admiration that we had prior to her affair. We once again are pure. our love complete. We are at a place I thought we could never return.

I certainly do not feel we are poster children for reconciliation. It has been a long road for us. Many may be discouraged by the time factor. I think we are all on different time lines and this can happen faster for many with the proper tools. It is possible. 

Let me take a minute to give Mrs. JA credit for making this happen. I alone could not do it. Only through her love and patience is this possible. I know this is always where she wanted us to be, she just did not know how to do it.

I will say thank you to the many on TAM that made this possible. We were talking tonight in the Hot Tub. Mrs. Adams takes every post to heart and many hurts her feelings. I am better able to filter out the non applicable posts and zero in on the wisdom of some of the experienced posters. We have made it to a beautiful place. 

To my beautiful Mrs. Adams, thank-you for hanging in there we have a wonderful life ahead of us.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

*Thank you Mr. Adams for an excellent reply post!*

If I understand you right the only thing that you were missing was being convinced that your wife was remorseful. She read the book that gave her a better understanding that she did not have before and then she acted on that information to show you in a different way her remorse.


I do not know what Mrs. Adams was lacking in regards to remorse but when I responded to your post last year I thought that 30 years of faithful recovery was solid proof of her remorse. One of the reasons that I am convinced of that is that my wife has been remorseful and has proven that to me for over 25 years. I believe in actions more than words and my wife showed me for 25 years that she was remorseful. I had no problem with her remorse, she is remorseful and has been since she came back home. You and your wife stated your situation last year and your wife’s 30 years of action convinced me that she was remorseful. I may have been a little to blunt with you last year but because I am so big on action for a long period of time being solid proof I thought that you maybe wanting to hold on to your hurt when there was proof to the contrary. I may have been wrong in my approach and did not understand that you needed other actions.


All though you and I have some similarities in our 25-30 recovery, there are some differences. One of the difference is that my wife left me to go live with the other man. Just like Philat had some differences that added another dimension to the affair, what Mrs. Adams did and what my wife did are a little different and I have a situation that you do not. *If I understand your wife she never would have left you for the other man. If I am mistaken about that let me know.*
Now I am not crying around about that nor is it an excuse to not have a very good recovery. However, my idealism was killed. Granted that Idealism was not likely in reality and I no longer believe that my wife was so dedicated to me that she would die before she would reject me and replace me with another man. Secondly, I no longer believe that she is as strong as I once thought. My idealism is dead and she is still not as strong as I once thought IMO.

As I have said, she is a very good person and she has a special place in my heart and always will. She is remorseful but she still has some weaknesses (as I do also) and her actions have killed my idealism which may have been unrealistic to begin with.

So if I am not mistaken you had a problem believing your wife was truly remorseful ( I did not) and I have a different problem in that my wife still has a weakness and her actions killed my (Unrealistic ?) idealism.

John, what you and Mrs. A have done is truly inspirational to me. You both have given ne vicarious exhilaration!


I do not want to give the impression that my wife and I do not have a very satisfactory marriage. We laugh together, cry together, enjoy things together, and support each other. In addition we are a very close family and have almost no friends as our family meets almost all our of needs. We get together a least 3-4 times a week.

John, I know that you and Mrs. Adam’s story has given information and hope for some of those in an infidelity situation and are in R or early R. I wanted to give a few stages of R and what to expect in some cases so that their R would not get a shock and they get so disappointed that they give up. *I still believe that ONE part of the love/admiration can be killed and then build and recover in other areas so that you have a very satisfactory marriage*. As CPACAN stated there are differences in most cases of Infidelity. However, I do think that we can learn from each other and hopefully alleviate some of the devastation and pain that is caused by infidelity.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

*!*



BetrayedAgain7 said:


> This is a great post Mr. Blunt.
> 
> It made me cry, because this where I am right now. It's been 10 months and I still don't know if I can go on with it. Despite my WS doing a lot of heavy lifting, constant reassurances and complete openness, I still don't know if I can keep going on with it. The betrayal is just to deep, to painful, to ongoing.
> 
> ...


Fear of the unknown. Gee, and your WS is doing a lot of heavy lifting as well! 

We are at 11 months since DDay and my WS hasn't lifted a finger.

Doesn't have to - she said "it happens all the time, get over it".


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> If I understand you right the only thing that you were missing was being convinced that your wife was remorseful. She read the book that gave her a better understanding that she did not have before and then she acted on that information to show you in a different way her remorse.


Yes, I felt that Mrs. Adams was missing true remorse. Yes, I agree she was living it. I think the reason I felt this was that I was suffering from the continuous triggers which often caused subsequent depression while I felt she just wanted it to go away and quit thinking about it. Instead of seeing my pain, she thought I was punishing her. The book really opened her heart and eyes. It did drive home the point of the pain caused and how to help your spouse heal. I do not think it is a miracle cure for everyone, but, it did work for us. 

Also, I appreciate your blunt counseling. Indeed she was demonstrating remorse on a daily basis with her actions. It certainly made me reflect and say yes, she lives remorse, it is hard to ask for more.




Mr Blunt said:


> If I understand your wife she never would have left you for the other man. If I am mistaken about that let me know.
> .


I am indeed lucky that my wife never left me for the other man. That certainly would have been a whole new set of dynamics to deal with and I am not sure how or if I could have handled it. I think this could have been a possibility had the OM been more than just a player. She was infatuated with the OM. I think he viewed her as another notch on his bedpost. I am glad it never came to this, but this is not one area that I can give her credit, he was not looking for her to move in with him. Had the OM asked her to move in I am afraid the outcome may have been much different.



Mr Blunt said:


> So if I am not mistaken you had a problem believing your wife was truly remorseful ( I did not) and I have a different problem in that my wife still has a weakness and her actions killed my (Unrealistic ?) idealism.


Yes, I feel she has now demonstrated the remorse I needed. Our innocence is gone. However, I do feel an idealism in our marriage. I think she would die for me. I feel confident that she would not have another affair. I feel like no other couple could ever love each other as much and my wife and I love each other and that is certainly idealism.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Well as someone who is in the position of having both scenarios happen to me my thoughts(funny today is the 2 year anniversary of when she met the OM well the newest)

I guess not knowing about something that happened in the past is better for the BS sort of, but how did that influence the way your WS treated you over the years. After finding out that something went on years ago I can look back at her behavior and the changes in her after her affair and it explains some things. 
Then add in the fact that all the pictures, memories, the I Love Yous seem so fake empty tainted maybe ignorance is bliss.
But I guess years ago or yesterday whenever you find out it all seems fake.

Good post by the way, I am coming up on 2 year dday and much of what has been posted is spot on. I have already come to the conclusion I will never be completely over this it will haunt me and our marriage, it will be a matter of me learning to live with all that I have learned and us learning to move forward in the new dynamic of our marriage.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Double post


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

*Originally Posted by Mr Blunt* 

So if I am not mistaken you had a problem believing your wife was truly remorseful ( I did not) and I have a different problem in that my wife still has a weakness and her actions killed my (Unrealistic ?) idealism.
*By John Adams*
Yes, I feel she has now demonstrated the remorse I needed. Our innocence is gone. However, I do feel an idealism in our marriage. I think she would die for me. I feel confident that she would not have another affair.* I feel like no other couple could ever love each other as much and my wife and I love each other and that is certainly idealism.*


WOW!! Thank you Mr. Adams for such a powerful and encouraging statement. It is great that we have people like you and Mrs. Adams in this world. You took one of the greatest hits in marriage and then you achieved one of the highest goals in a relationship. 

I take my hat off to you and Mrs. Adams!!!


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

*Re: !*



Mrs. John Adams said:


> Has she read this? "How to help your spouse heal from your affair...by Linda macdonald. It is almost a step by step instruction book for us. 97 pages long.
> 
> Both of you need to read it.


No, she has only read the awful accusatory and damning e-mails from me (done to reduce the rising household arguments affecting our children) in the first weeks after DDay which was April 2nd 2013. I sent her a lot of stuff including copies of her secret e-mails with the POSOM.

When things settled down and I was hunting for answers and I discovered this haven, I did copy her on a great BS explanation letter which has done the rounds on TAM. Sort of a condensed letter of what Linda McDonald's book goes into I imagine. 

She read that once, I think. I also copied her on a few things from the net on infidelity, when I, being further deluded, was in a positive frame of mind. I once sent her an interesting article by a Psychologist describing the stages that a wayward goes through - the attraction to the OM etc. I thought it might help her understand her behavior & help us. Her response was "I am nothing like that, it was nothing like that. You weren't there".

She has done nothing - once again I will have to be the one to broach the subject. So I don't bother now. Nothing is discussed, any physicality finally came to a halt 5 months ago - resentment simmers.

This must be her idea of getting over it.

PS: We are not reconciling, this is co-existence.


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

*Re: !*



Horizon said:


> Fear of the unknown. Gee, and your WS is doing a lot of heavy lifting as well!
> 
> We are at 11 months since DDay and my WS hasn't lifted a finger.
> 
> Doesn't have to - she said "it happens all the time, get over it".


It's hard work. Once you get them to take responsibility, be accountable and start doing the heavy lifting that is just the start of it. It's only the beginning. 

Believe me when I say that recovery.....TRUE recovery.....is not for the faint hearted.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Originally Posted by Horizon *
> Fear of the unknown. Gee, and your WS is doing a lot of heavy lifting as well!
> 
> We are at 11 months since DDay and my WS hasn't lifted a finger.
> ...



*Horizon*
Your wife has a terrible attitude towards R. I hope that you re-direct some or all of your efforts to get your wife to R and use that energy to build yourself up and getting ready to live without her. *Make a plan now.*


I am not a pro-divorce guy but you will not be able to have a contented life with her having that attitude. In fact that attitude will probably bring you down, if you want to keep trying to get her to R in the right way that is your call. With her attitude you have a very low to zero chance of R.

Everyone has their own limit as to how much they will take. I would concentrate on me only and get as strong as possible then if she has not changed I would put my plan in motion; serve the D papers, have your finances and m living arrangement all in order, then separate from her and cut off all contact. *If she does not change then she will be a determent to your whole being.*

The success stories with R that I have read on this forum have the exact opposite attitude as your wife. *Get yourself in a position that you can live without her and if she changes you can decide if you want her back. *


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I hate being the pessimist, but have been around enough to know the Adam’s are the unicorn. It’s how you want it to be and how you want it to work. Most R’s do not work like this at all. In the early stages for the BS; *detachment*.

It is in my head an absolute requirement. A true loss of expectations and outcomes for the relationship. A willingness to accept this marriage is no more. So it’s two individuals again, just like it started. You allow the relationship to become whatever it’s going to become without trying to force it to be something it can never be. You judge it on what it is rather than what it should be or what it can be. You can keep your hope, but develop yourself so you don’t need it to feel good about yourself.

It could be a marriage again, but doesn’t have to be and the survival isn’t tied up in your own personal ego, pride, etc. If it is, people tend to settle, tolerate, etc. just to salvage their own ego. That will remain a poison in the system. The chain of thought needs to go from "What would a good husband do?" to "What would I do?" So you really have to explore, discover and find yourself to build your cake. Every other relationship should be seen as the icing adding to your life. 

I know it sounds counter-productive but think of it this way. You aren’t starting from scratch. As two individuals long ago, there was enough there even being a individual making decisions for yourself and visa-versa, to generate those feelings that you’d want to spend the rest of your life with this person. Assuming the reason you married them was pure, the old romantic in me believes that it will always be so. So get back to being ‘you’ instead of ‘spouse’ and let nature take it’s coarse. It takes time and patience. 

Sidenote; You have to spend time with them though to reform those bonds. So I don’t believe in separation, dating others, and developing other relationships as you detach that hose from your spouse. You shouldn’t just be replacing them with another and you can’t bond with someone who isn’t there. You work on you so you don't need others to complete you; You simply want others to add value to your life (and remove those who are toxic to it)


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Racer said:


> I hate being the pessimist, but have been around enough to know the Adam’s are the unicorn. It’s how you want it to be and how you want it to work. Most R’s do not work like this at all. In the early stages for the BS; *detachment*.
> ...


The difference that remorse makes is such that allows both Mr Blunt and Mr Addams perspective along with Racer's.
In the middle, my path.
I'm with Racer in which _most_ Rs don't go this hopeful way.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> For the WS and BS in the early years
> 
> This post is mostly for those that want and seek reconciliation. I know that in some cases reconciliation is NOT the best option.
> 
> ...


Very interesting mr B. The death of part of the love, a special part that some people might think is the most important part. This is why I think some can't get over it and choose divorce. They'd rather start again and have the chance to enjoy the 'unvarnished' brand of love with some other partner.....


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