# Men showing compassion/empathy



## Anon Pink

Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!

Please be specific. Here are some examples

1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?

2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?

3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?

4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


----------



## SpinDaddy

Anon Pink said:


> . . . . You respond by saying and doing what?


I tell her:
•	“it’s a good thing I married you” or 
•	“It’s a good thing you married me”or
•	“Damn you’re hot baby, now why don’t you go fix me a turkey pot pie.”

I always tell her:
•	“I love you”

I always hug her and I always try to give her backside a good pat, rub and squeeze.


----------



## GusPolinski

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


----------



## Anon Pink

LOL, that butt squeeze always calms me right down!


----------



## Anon Pink

OMG GUS!!! Hysterical!


Coward!


----------



## FOB

Good questions. I don't have time to respond fully right now, but thought this video would be fitting. Safe for work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg


----------



## Anon Pink

FOB said:


> Good questions. I don't have time to respond fully right now, but thought this video would be fitting. Safe for work.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg


That was funny. If only real life was as easy as that.


----------



## arbitrator

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


*OK, Anon! I'll give this a try!




Asking her who she had the argument with, what it was about, who started it, and other small details. Then I'd try to support her by taking her side and consoling her by telling her that she was justified. The only way that I would ever go counter to that would be if she was totally in the wrong, and if that were truly the case, I'd try my best to softly reinforce that to her in as la loving way that I would know how to!
Lovingly ask what happened, and reassure her that bad things happen to everybody at some time in their life and to try to forget about it and move on. Then holding her and then giving her a big hug and a kiss for reassurance! Then if it was dinner, I'd offer to help out by fixing it myself, or by taking her out to a nice place. If it was a project, I'd offer in giving her a hand in getting it back on track for her!
Coddling her, taking care of her needs by cooking, fetching meds, keeping things quiet, so she could rest, and by constantly looking in on her to see if there was anything she might need during this time of sickness!
Gently reinforce that whatever happened was not her fault, or anybody's for that matter and tell her to try and not let things like that get to her! And then reinforce that advise with a hug and a kiss!

And to all of these, always tell her how much that I absolutely love and care about her!
*


----------



## GusPolinski

Anon Pink said:


> OMG GUS!!! Hysterical!
> 
> 
> Coward!




Well, to quote -- or, rather, to paraphrase -- the Bard...

"Discretion is the better part of valor."


----------



## richardsharpe

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *[ Here I am a bit too logical, so I will try to help find a way to help her resolve things. ]
> *
> 
> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *[Some version of "it doesn't matter" - and I can always point out that I'm a bigger screwup. Same if the screwup does affect me]*
> 
> 
> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *[Whatever will make her feel better. I'll do anything that needs doing until she is feeling better]
> *
> 
> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?
> *
> [Try to figure out what will help - again probably not the best plan but that is how I am]*


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Anon Pink said:


> You respond by saying and doing what?


Working overtime.


----------



## meson

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *I calmly explain why she is wrong and try to have her see reason.*
> 
> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *I calmly tell her it doesn't matter that she screwed up.*
> 
> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *On my way to work I tell her to feel better and ask her to pick up my laundry from the cleaners.*
> 
> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *I ask her how she managed to screw it up so bad.*


You're right Gus, it's a trap!!! Abort abort abort!


----------



## ocotillo

Anon Pink said:


> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?


My wife is in the right 95% of the time when this happens, so I listen; ask a few questions and then usually take her side. 



Anon Pink said:


> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?


I listen much more quietly and let her do most of the talking. The more she talks it out, the more she seems to come to terms with it and be philosophical about it. 



Anon Pink said:


> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?


I take care of her. I'm actually very good at it. She fell ill the second week we were married. Her mother said, "Well, did you miss me?" and she said, "NO." She had her tonsils out as an adult, which was absolute hell for her. I took a week off for that. 



Anon Pink said:


> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


This is an area where I'd likely try to "Fix" things. --Not always the right thing to do, but don't seem to learn my lesson no matter how many times it happens.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I believe the man's response for some will be based on the quality of the woman talking. Ocotillo's post says that to me.

She's quality

He trusts her

Thus he listens and reasons and supports where necessary and gives her quality in return.


----------



## john117

Drumroll...

1. Have a glass of wine dear.

2. Have a bottle of wine dear...

3. Have a few mixed drinks dear...

4. Have the whole 1.75 liter Costco Gray Goose bottle dear...

The answer is simple. If it happens occasionally I'm all for using my sizable empathy and understanding and all the good stuff to help her cope. I have always done it for her.

However, some people tend to go overboard with the drama and do it constantly. At that point it becomes like background music....


----------



## MEM2020

When I'm 'on' which is 80% of the time:

1. Hug/verbal empathy including possibly a similar incident that happened to me.
2. Same as (1)
3. Same as (1) + 'lie down and rest I'll take care of everything that needs doing'. M2 typically gets 'dinner in bed' in these situations. 
4. 'Sucks when you're going about your day, minding your business and get hit by lightning' + hug + 'listening til she finishes talking and then asking: is there anything I can do for you'?

The common theme to all of this is the result. I can feel the negative energy slowly draining from M2's body. Very satisfying. 

20% of the time - I go into 'fix it' mode. And that is neither kind nor effective. 







QUOTE=Anon Pink;11850617]Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!

Please be specific. Here are some examples

1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?

2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?

3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?

4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?[/QUOTE]


----------



## Thundarr

Hi Anon. Let me add some context to the answers.

1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?

- a.1 This was a daily thing with my ex . But I would always jump into fixer mode because I"m I'm a fixer. The details though never added up to the travesty be and outrage and somehow I always ended up defending those she was fussing about rather than just listening. Granted I should have just listened and nodded my head but she had some major paranoia that I couldn't handle well.
- a.2 This is semi frequent with my wife. I've gotten better at not jumping into fixer mode but she doesn't bring this negative stuff to me every single day either.

2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?

- a.1 With my ex I tried to console her.
- a.2 With my wife I try to console her.

3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?

- a.1 With my ex I learned that when I wasn't feeling well she somehow made it about her so even though my nature was to care for her it seems that I was resentful while doing it.
- a.2 When my wife isn't feeling well, I feel terrible that I can't help her more but I do what I can.

4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?[/QUOTE]

- a.1 With my ex I would try to console her.
- a.2 With my wife I try to console her.


So the context was added to show that responses are not made within a vacumn. They have been dependent on me, my partner, and what we think of each other. That being said, I like a lot of your comments but I've seen you get really angry and draw extreme conclusions that I don't always agree with. This is something I saw in my ex as well and it sometimes prevented me from having empathy because I didn't always agree the outrage was justified on her part. Anyway I hope me being sincere is more helpful than the happy happy answers would have been.


----------



## GusPolinski

OK, OK... I'll play along...



Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?


"Sweetie, calm down and have a seat. I'll get you a glass of wine, and we can talk about it. And yes, all _other_ women are completely BSC."



Anon Pink said:


> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?


As appropriate...

"Sweetie, it's not a big deal. It looks good. It tastes good. Now put it on a plate so I can eat it."

OR

"Sweetie, I love you, but this tastes horrible. Let's go to Subway and pick up a couple of sandwiches. Also, I love you."

OR

"Sweetie, it looks fine. It's not a big deal. We can buy more paint/chalk paint/wax/miscellaneous whatever and fix it."



Anon Pink said:


> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?


"Sweetie, go lay down. I'll call in today. Gimme a few minutes, and I'll bring up your iPad, a couple of bottles of water and a cup of coffee/tea/OJ/whatever. I'll make homemade chicken soup for tonight. In fact, I need to go to the grocery store to pick up a few things... would you like me to run a warm bath for you?"



Anon Pink said:


> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


Kind of vague, but, generally speaking...

"Sweetie, stuff happens. Let's do what we can to make the best of it, mitigate the impact to the extent possible, etc."


----------



## commonsenseisn't

This one's easy, but I didn't learn the proper response until a few years ago. It works every time. 

For each scenario the correct action for me to take with my wife is to give her my full attention, listen carefully, empathize, affirm her feelings, and resist the temptation to offer advise, or solutions to the issue. 

When I'm really on my game I ask "how did that make you feel"? and other things that are counter intuitive to my psyche. 

Above all, I never blurt out the obvious solution (to me, anyway) to the problem and expect her to be satisfied with it.

I think I may have even gnawed my tongue in half a time or two trying not to talk when I should be listening. 

This is the proper strategy to deal with the woman trap.


----------



## tacoma

Anon Pink said:


> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?


I'd ask her what the argument was then just shut the hell up and let her rant.
I wouldn't do anything at all about the argument or her reaction to it unless her ranting revealed she wanted me to do something.
Aside from that I'd feed her (food calms her) and let her relax so it's easier for her to Regain her composure.



> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?


See number one.



> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?


I'd tell her to get some rest and let me take care of her and when she didn't do so I'd start to feign irritation/anger with her because she never takes care of herself and will ignore all of my pleas to do so unless she thinks it's pissing me off.



> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


See number one.

Hey this husband gig is easier than I realized!!

What did I win?


----------



## alphaomega

I just nod my head and think about BBQ!

Then I say, pizza time! And the kids get all excited and start screaming in excitement. Running around the house. 

Trap avoided.


----------



## JCD

GusPolinski said:


>




I read it another way: that we are now uninformed, uncompensated judges to a domestic tiff of epic levels of resentment and we are called upon to verify the absolute emotional idiocy of the male gender

OR

to be used as a cudgel to beat upon a spouse who is not acting up to snuff.

Why am I suddenly feeling bruised?


----------



## Zouz

I listen ,and listen , and say humm , or Oh dear , and then suddenly everything stops ....

She is snoring ....


----------



## commonsenseisn't

Oh yea, I forgot. I also give her chocolate. 

Works miracles.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

1. I would respond by asking her,"Honey, what is wrong? You seem upset, is there something you want to talk about." I would never give advice unless asked. It is her issue and hers to resolve. If she wants my opinion, I will give it.

2. I would tell her it is okay. Accidents occur. I would take her out to dinner or cook myself. I personally like cooking so it is not an issue. If it were a project, and I had nothing going on, I would help relieve some of her other stress so she can focus on what she needs to accomplish. If I cannot, then again, it is her issue to deal with.

3. I would simply take care of everything while she is out of commission. No big deal really. I grew up doing chores since I was 10. It is a habit of mine anyways. I am a neat and organizational person.

4. Again I would listen, and again it is her issue to resolve. Life will sometimes hand you issues that you never asked for, but it becomes yours to deal with. Life is not fair. I would listen to her complain, because sometimes that person wants to be heard and understood.


----------



## Joey2k

For all those scenarios, my response is generally the same. Ask if there is anything I can do (trying to sound sympathetic and supportive), if she says yes try and do it, if she says no I tell her I'm sorry to hear it and wait for her to either continue to conversation or give me some kind of cue that she has gotten it off her chest and the discussion is over.


----------



## Observer

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> I listen, she wants to rant so I would let her. After she gets it off her chest she will feel better. She knows I'm on her side.
> 
> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> Listen, offer support and let her know we all make mkistakes, we are human.
> 
> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> I'll take care of you...rest. Then proceeed to take care of her like she would me if I was sick.
> 
> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> Once again, listen to what is going on, offer advice if I have something. Affirm that it will get worked out and be supportive.


----------



## EleGirl

Blossom Leigh said:


> I believe the man's response for some will be based on the quality of the woman talking. Ocotillo's post says that to me.
> 
> She's quality
> 
> He trusts her
> 
> Thus he listens and reasons and supports where necessary and gives her quality in return.


This assumes that every man is perfect and only women are capable of being flowed, or low quality.

It's about a accurate a statement as saying "A man's choice to cheat is based on the quality of his wife."


----------



## MountainRunner

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?


 I will listen, offer up suggestion(s) as to how to respond. Offer to assist if warranted. I do that a lot as I often catch myself wanting to "fix" her problems (I know, I know...probably shouldn't do it, but I do).



Anon Pink said:


> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?


 Put my arm around her, or hug her, tell her that she'll do better next time...something along those lines.



Anon Pink said:


> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?


 I wait on her when she isn't feeling well. She often suffers from severe migraines, so I'll make certain the house is dark for her, that things are quiet in the house while she is ailing, bring her a beverage..stuff like that.



Anon Pink said:


> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


Acknowledge her feelings and then ask her why she may be upset. Sometimes just be a "sounding board" and depending upon the circumstances, simply hug her and tell her that in the grand scheme of things that perhaps this might be a situation where she should just let go.


----------



## Racer

It is a trick question: There is no wrong answer here.

It sort of works like this: You are irritated regardless of source. A healthy person accepts they are responsible for how they feel; they own it. Healthy people accept flaws in both themselves and others. So no matter what your spouse does, as long as you feel they are trying to cheer you up or make you feel better, it doesn’t matter what they do and that effort to influence you matters. People can only influence, but it is how you interpret their actions that creates a emotional response within you. 

Unhealthy people like to hold other’s responsible for how they feel. Because of this, there’s sort of a belief that someone else, like your spouse, can ‘make you’ feel better because you won’t accept you play a role in your emotions. Therefore there will be a right way or wrong way for them to handle it. If they do it wrong, which is most probable given the millions of possible reactions to you, it might make you more frustrated because in your head they should know exactly what it is that you want.

Example: I can give you a hug and butt squeeze. In my mind, it’s how I might show I care and the squeeze is to make you giggle (a happy thing). My wife can either interpret that how I meant it, or decide I don’t care and am making a pass at her because I’m selfish and horny: Same action by me, two totally different emotional responses all dependent on how she perceives.

There is no wrong answer.


----------



## Anon Pink

Thank you gentlemen! These are some excellent responses! You guys have demonstrated a level of mindfulness and intention that clearly makes your wife feel loved by you. Well done well done! :smthumbup:

I have some follow up questions if you would be so kind.

1. The responses you indicated,
A. was this something you mindfully decided to do?
B. something that came naturally to you?
C. something you learned to do as a result of "feedback" (for lack of a better word) from your wife or someone significant in your life?

2. Would you judge yourself to be 
A. reasonably compassionate man in all areas?
B. reasonably compassionate with only a chosen few areas or relationships?
C. not very compassionate naturally.

Tacoma, your answers were excellent but I'm sorry to say only commonsenseisntit mentioned the application of chocolate which resulted in the MOST compassionate response. 

Spin daddy and MEM were the only ones who mentioned physical affection. Hmmmm.


WOM, alpha omega, meson, you need help dears.

John, mixed drinks after a medical procedure? 

JCD, careful dear, your lack of compassion is showing...


----------



## Anon Pink

EleGirl said:


> This assumes that every man is perfect and only women are capable of being flowed, or low quality.
> 
> It's about a accurate a statement as saying "A man's choice to cheat is based on the quality of his wife."


Brilliant! Boom!


----------



## DoF

Before I start, let me just say that it all depends how "reasonable, open minded and considerate" the wife is. I know many out there are NOT.

NOTE: The responses would be COMPLETELY different if my wife was NOT reasonable, open minded or considerate".

Mine is none of the above (most of the time, so here they are)



Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?


Depends on the argument/nature of it.

But in general, I would say "Honey, I'm not exactly sure why you are wasting your health, stressing out or ALLOWING idiots/people get to you like this. It's not healthy and I hate to see you in this state. You need to do a better job not allowing people to make you feel this way or lowering yourself to their standards."



Anon Pink said:


> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?


Again, depends on the details. This can easily sway my response from"friendly/helpful" to "tough love".

"Don't feel bad, no one is perfect and everyone makes mistake. How can I help you with dinner/project <insert whatever>"




Anon Pink said:


> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?


"I'm sorry, hope you feel better"> proceed to get soup, do whatever it takes to make a person feel better (cook, clean, take on her responsibilities etc). 



Anon Pink said:


> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


"Don't be upset honey, it's out of your control. Don't worry about things you can't control, you are wasting your time and putting your health on the line. Not worth it."


----------



## Anon Pink

Racer said:


> It is a trick question: There is no wrong answer here.
> 
> It sort of works like this: You are irritated regardless of source. A healthy person accepts they are responsible for how they feel; they own it. Healthy people accept flaws in both themselves and others. So no matter what your spouse does, as long as you feel they are trying to cheer you up or make you feel better, it doesn’t matter what they do and that effort to influence you matters. People can only influence, but it is how you interpret their actions that creates a emotional response within you.
> 
> Unhealthy people like to hold other’s responsible for how they feel. Because of this, there’s sort of a belief that someone else, like your spouse, can ‘make you’ feel better because you won’t accept you play a role in your emotions. Therefore there will be a right way or wrong way for them to handle it. If they do it wrong, which is most probable given the millions of possible reactions to you, it might make you more frustrated because in your head they should know exactly what it is that you want.


So to a healthy person, any attempted response or effort to respond is showing compassion? To an unhealthy person, only a specific response will be interpreted as an appropriate response?






> Example: I can give you a hug and butt squeeze. In my mind, it’s how I might show I care and the squeeze is to make you giggle (a happy thing). My wife can either interpret that how I meant it, or decide I don’t care and am making a pass at her because I’m selfish and horny: Same action by me, two totally different emotional responses all dependent on how she perceives.
> 
> There is no wrong answer.


I think the wrong answer is to say and do nothing.


----------



## Shoto1984

Generally, I think the whole "listen but don't fix" thing is so the antithesis of what most of us males are. It takes all of my strength not to pull the nail out.


----------



## just got it 55

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


Answer to all

I can see your upset sweetie
We are a team and I will help you in any way I am capable of

Anything can and will be resolved if you need us to put our minds together

I am always here to help 

Know this I am always willing 

To respect your abilities I will wait for you to ask

55


----------



## EleGirl

Racer said:


> It is a trick question: There is no wrong answer here.
> 
> It sort of works like this: You are irritated regardless of source. A healthy person accepts they are responsible for how they feel; they own it. Healthy people accept flaws in both themselves and others. So no matter what your spouse does, as long as you feel they are trying to cheer you up or make you feel better, it doesn’t matter what they do and that effort to influence you matters. People can only influence, but it is how you interpret their actions that creates a emotional response within you.
> 
> Unhealthy people like to hold other’s responsible for how they feel. Because of this, there’s sort of a belief that someone else, like your spouse, can ‘make you’ feel better because you won’t accept you play a role in your emotions. Therefore there will be a right way or wrong way for them to handle it. If they do it wrong, which is most probable given the millions of possible reactions to you, it might make you more frustrated because in your head they should know exactly what it is that you want.
> 
> Example: I can give you a hug and butt squeeze. In my mind, it’s how I might show I care and the squeeze is to make you giggle (a happy thing). My wife can either interpret that how I meant it, or decide I don’t care and am making a pass at her because I’m selfish and horny: Same action by me, two totally different emotional responses all dependent on how she perceives.
> 
> There is no wrong answer.


I disagree. There are wrong answers.

One wrong answer is to tell that his wife that he does not want to hear her nonsense. 

Another wrong answer is to berate her when she brings up her concerns.

Another wrong answer is to tell her how to fix it and then get upset if she does not fix is his way. She's not looking for a fix. She's looking for empathy.

My experience is that when men also will talk to their wives about the exact same sort of things.


----------



## ocotillo

EleGirl said:


> This assumes that every man is perfect and only women are capable of being flowed...


What is, "...being flowed?"

Flawed?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

EleGirl said:


> This assumes that every man is perfect and only women are capable of being flowed, or low quality.
> 
> It's about a accurate a statement as saying "A man's choice to cheat is based on the quality of his wife."


No it doesn't because the reverse is true.

When people who choose quality behaviors come together it fosters trust and respect and fuels good commumication and emotional intimacy. Switch out the gender and you have the same result.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

This kind of thing happens all the time. And I'm embarrassed to say how I handle it. Shhhh....it's active listening. Ugh. I was just going over the dialogue in my mind since each time is different, when I realized. Oh crap, active fricken listening.


----------



## Anon Pink

WorkingOnMe said:


> This kind of thing happens all the time. And I'm embarrassed to say how I handle it. Shhhh....it's active listening. Ugh. I was just going over the dialogue in my mind since each time is different, when I realized. Oh crap, active fricken listening.


Don't worry I won't tell a soul....

But did you learn to do this in order to get along better with your wife of did this kind of response come naturally to you?


----------



## FOB

commonsenseisn't said:


> This one's easy, but I didn't learn the proper response until a few years ago. It works every time.
> 
> For each scenario the correct action for me to take with my wife is to give her my full attention, listen carefully, empathize, affirm her feelings, and resist the temptation to offer advise, or solutions to the issue.
> 
> When I'm really on my game I ask "how did that make you feel"? and other things that are counter intuitive to my psyche.
> 
> Above all, I never blurt out the obvious solution (to me, anyway) to the problem and expect her to be satisfied with it.
> 
> I think I may have even gnawed my tongue in half a time or two trying not to talk when I should be listening.
> 
> This is the proper strategy to deal with the woman trap.


Thanks to this response I don't need to write one. Perfect. However, it took me YEARS to learn this, along with a fair bit of counseling. 

I finally learned that unless my wife asks me, "What would you do?" or "What do you think?" I just shut up, listen, reflect and ask questions. Usually Mrs. FOB doesn't want me to fix her issue, she wants me to understand why she's so damn upset!


----------



## Anon Pink

Blossom Leigh said:


> No it doesn't because the reverse is true.
> 
> When people who choose quality behaviors come together it fosters trust and respect and fuels good commumication and emotional intimacy. Switch out the gender and you have the same result.


If what you say is true, then your husbands emotional affair was caused by your lack of quality.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Anon Pink said:


> If what you say is true, then your husbands emotional affair was caused by your lack of quality.


Incorrect

I am not responsible for his choices


----------



## happy as a clam

john117 said:


> *Drumroll...*
> 
> 1. Have a glass of wine dear.
> 
> 2. Have a bottle of wine dear...
> 
> 3. Have a few mixed drinks dear...
> 
> 4. Have the whole 1.75 liter Costco Gray Goose bottle dear...


:rofl:

A man after my own heart!! john... this is FUN-NEE!!!


----------



## EleGirl

Blossom Leigh said:


> I believe the man's response for some will be based on the quality of the woman talking. Ocotillo's post says that to me.
> 
> She's quality
> 
> He trusts her
> 
> Thus he listens and reasons and supports where necessary and gives her quality in return.





EleGirl said:


> This assumes that every man is perfect and only women are capable of being flowed, or low quality.
> 
> It's about a accurate a statement as saying "A man's choice to cheat is based on the quality of his wife."





Blossom Leigh said:


> No it doesn't because the reverse is true.
> 
> When people who choose quality behaviors come together it fosters trust and respect and fuels good commumication and emotional intimacy. Switch out the gender and you have the same result.


:scratchhead: 

So according to this, if a man cheats, its because his wife is of low quality. And if a woman cheats, it’s because her husband is of low quality? That follows the line of thought in your original post above.

You are back peddling now. In original post you put all of the responsibility for the man’s response on the quality of the woman.

If a man’s response to a woman is based on her quality as a human, then so is a man’s choice to cheat. It if hold for one thing in a relationship, it holds for all things. 

In the example that AP gives, the woman is not responsible for the way a man choses to respond. The reverse is true if a man shares similar things with his wife… he is not responsible for how she chooses to respond.

It’s the same with cheating. The BS (male or female) is not responsible for their spouses chose to cheat.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

EleGirl said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> So according to this, if a man cheats, its because his wife is of low quality. And if a woman cheats, it’s because her husband is of low quality? That follows the line of thought in your original post above.
> 
> You are back peddling now. In original post you put all of the responsibility for the man’s response on the quality of the woman.
> 
> If a man’s response to a woman is based on her quality as a human, then so is a man’s choice to cheat. It if hold for one thing in a relationship, it holds for all things.
> 
> In the example that AP gives, the woman is not responsible for the way a man choses to respond. The reverse is true if a man shares similar things with his wife… he is not responsible for how she chooses to respond.
> 
> It’s the same with cheating. The BS (male or female) is not responsible for their spouses chose to cheat.


You both are missing my point


----------



## Joey2k

Why is a woman's need to vent and have someone just listen and empathize more important than a man's need to fix problems, especially problems that affect someone he cares about? For many men it hurts and causes us stress for women to tell us about problems and not be able to try and help fix them, but apparently the woman's feelings are the only ones that matter in theses scenarios.


----------



## Anon Pink

Blossom Leigh said:


> Incorrect
> 
> I am not responsible for his choices



But that's not what you're saying here:



Blossom Leigh said:


> I believe the man's *response for some will be based on the quality of the woman talking. *Ocotillo's post says that to me.
> 
> She's quality
> 
> He trusts her
> 
> Thus he listens and reasons and supports where necessary and gives her quality in return.


What you said above is that Octillo responds so well because his wife is quality. Conversely, if she was not quality he would not respond so well.





Blossom Leigh said:


> No it doesn't because the reverse is true.
> 
> *When people who choose quality behaviors come together it fosters trust and respect and fuels good commumication and emotional intimacy.* Switch out the gender and you have the same result.



And here you indicate that choosing quality behavior begets quality behavior. Which means your husband's emotional affair had something to do with your lack of quality behavior.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Anon Pink said:


> But that's not what you're saying here:
> 
> 
> 
> What you said above is that Octillo responds so well because his wife is quality. Conversely, if she was not quality he would not respond so well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here you indicate that choosing quality behavior begets quality behavior. Which means your husband's emotional affair had something to do with your lack of quality behavior.


Conclusions are being drawn that I have not said, nor inferred, nor believe. Therefore back peddling doesn't exist in my posts.

The basis of my point is that when there is a track record of quality behavior it creates an atmosphere of safety/trust. 

That is independent of someone's choice of cheating to "cope."


----------



## Anon Pink

Joey2k said:


> Why is a woman's need to vent and have someone just listen and empathize more important than a man's need to fix problems, especially problems that affect someone he cares about? For many men it hurts and causes us stress for women to tell us about problems and not be able to try and help fix them, but apparently the woman's feelings are the only ones that matter in theses scenarios.


Excellent question!

For me, I'm okay with offered guidance or fixing type responses. But only if the compassion and empathy are also present. Without the compassion and empathy it *feels* like your boss or parent is reprimanding.

Take a burned dinner...
"Awe honey I know your disappointed the dinner is burned. I bet it would have been so good. Next time you want to blow me before dinner let's remember to turn the burners off first?"

Empathy first, fixing second.


----------



## Anon Pink

Blossom Leigh said:


> Conclusions are being drawn that I have not said, nor inferred, nor believe. Therefore back peddling doesn't exist in my posts.
> 
> The basis of my point is that when there is a track record of quality behavior it creates an atmosphere of safety/trust.
> 
> That is independent of someone's choice of cheating to "cope."


:lol:

:rofl::rofl:


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Blossom Leigh said:


> Conclusions are being drawn that I have not said, nor inferred, nor believe. Therefore back peddling doesn't exist in my posts.
> 
> The basis of my point is that when there is a track record of quality behavior it creates an atmosphere of safety/trust.
> 
> That is independent of someone's choice of cheating to "cope."


I will also add that Ocotillo can choose quality behavior if his wife doesn't choose quality behavior. 

What I heard him say is his wife has a track record of quality behavior and it gives him confidence when he engages her.

It was just my take on what he said. 

I appreciate the respect and trust they have for each other.


----------



## norajane

Joey2k said:


> Why is a woman's need to vent and have someone just listen and empathize more important than a man's need to fix problems, especially problems that affect someone he cares about? For many men it hurts and causes us stress for women to tell us about problems and not be able to try and help fix them, but apparently the woman's feelings are the only ones that matter in theses scenarios.


I think because it's not your problem to fix, it's her problem. And venting with her spouse (or a friend or her sister or a co-worker friend, etc.) is part of how she deals with it. She needs to blow off steam, vent the anger or disappointment or whatever high emotion she's feeling, and then work on the solution.

I work from home most often, and both my sister and my SO have this habit of calling me when they are driving home from work. What do they do? They vent to me about the traffic and about their work day. This is not fun for me, lol! But I listen because that's all they're asking for - just someone to talk with and vent their frustrations.


----------



## Cletus

Ugh. The only thing harder to watch than a thread where guys compare the size of their member is a thread where a bunch of guys try to out-empathize one other.

Nauseating.


----------



## ocotillo

Blossom Leigh said:


> I will also add that Ocotillo can choose quality behavior if his wife doesn't choose quality behavior.


If it helps, I took your original comment in the context of my observation that my wife is usually in the right in arguments. 

-Which IMO is a statement of quality. I don't have anywhere near that batting average myself.


----------



## jld

WorkingOnMe said:


> This kind of thing happens all the time. And I'm embarrassed to say how I handle it. Shhhh....it's active listening. Ugh. I was just going over the dialogue in my mind since each time is different, when I realized. Oh crap, active fricken listening.


I am happy to hear this. But if you want, I will pretend I didn't.


----------



## Cletus

I have been trained through the years that the "correct" response to each of those scenarios is to just listen patiently and show enough interest in the topic to convince her that I care that she's bothered. Which or course I do, even if I don't give a rat's behind about the actual details. 

My input is neither required nor useful. Fixing is counterproductive. Devil's advocate has its place, but must be very carefully played. Dismissive is the relationship equivalent of a kick in the crotch. So I just pay attention, listen, nod at the right times, and commiserate. That's all she really wants.


----------



## Anon Pink

Cletus said:


> I have been trained through the years that the "correct" response to each of those scenarios is to just listen patiently and show enough interest in the topic to convince her that I care that she's bothered. Which or course I do, even if I don't give a rat's behind about the actual details.
> 
> My input is neither required nor useful. Fixing is counterproductive. Devil's advocate has its place, but must be very carefully played. *Dismissive is the relationship equivalent of a kick in the crotch.* So I just pay attention, listen, nod at the right times, and commiserate. That's all she really wants.



How were you trained? By your wife describing how she wants to be treated? Did you read an article or a book? Was this something you learned through work?


----------



## Cletus

Anon Pink said:


> How were you trained? By your wife describing how she wants to be treated? Did you read an article or a book? Was this something you learned through work?


By my wife. I always participated in those conversations, but I too was a fixer. In my youth I didn't realize that wives talked about their problems even when they weren't looking for a solution.

So one day she told me, straight to my face - "I'm not looking for you to solve my problem. I'm just looking for support". 

No one would ever confuse me with a highly empathetic person, but I was a bright enough boy to catch on when told directly. Since then, when I try to solve a problem like this, a little alarm goes off in my head. So now I just listen and ask questions, like a therapist would, just to help her get it all out. 

Then I thank the gods that I pee standing up.


----------



## BWBill

My wife is quite capable of handling her own problems; we talk about things that have come up in her day, but generally very little fixing is required on my part, just support.

The two exceptions to that are first, the kids. I often need to get involved that. 

And second, some interpersonal problems can drag on for weeks and I get tired of hearing about them. Then she might get a (daily) time limit. She understands that.


----------



## Anon Pink

Cletus said:


> By my wife. I always participated in those conversations, but I too was a fixer. In my youth I didn't realize that wives talked about their problems even when they weren't looking for a solution.
> 
> So one day she told me, straight to my face - "I'm not looking for you to solve my problem. I'm just looking for support".
> 
> No one would ever confuse me with a highly empathetic person, but I was a bright enough boy to catch on when told directly. Since then, when I try to solve a problem like this, a little alarm goes off in my head. So now I just listen and ask questions, like a therapist would, just to help her get it all out.
> 
> Then I thank the gods that I pee standing up.



So your wife told you she wanted support not solutions. How did you figure out HOW to support? Where did you learn that listening is a form of support instead of sending her to the store to buy something, because that's support too.


----------



## GusPolinski

Anon Pink said:


> Thank you gentlemen! These are some excellent responses! You guys have demonstrated a level of mindfulness and intention that clearly makes your wife feel loved by you. Well done well done! :smthumbup:
> 
> I have some follow up questions if you would be so kind.
> 
> 1. The responses you indicated,
> A. was this something you mindfully decided to do?
> B. something that came naturally to you?
> C. something you learned to do as a result of "feedback" (for lack of a better word) from your wife or someone significant in your life?


Kind of all three. A certain degree of compassion and empathy come naturally for me, along w/ a natural urge to "fix" things, and I've learned that it's best if I make a concerted effort to suppress that.



Anon Pink said:


> 2. Would you judge yourself to be
> A. reasonably compassionate man in all areas?
> B. reasonably compassionate with only a chosen few areas or relationships?
> C. not very compassionate naturally.


Probably somewhere between A and B.



Anon Pink said:


> Spin daddy and MEM were the only ones who mentioned physical affection. Hmmmm.


In the interest of full disclosure, I will often suggest that any and all problems can be resolved by the attentive, studious, and protracted application of my hands, mouth, and penis... and all while gently groping her butt and/or boobs.

Oh, and saying all that other junk as well.


----------



## john117

EleGirl said:


> :scratchhead:
> So according to this, if a man cheats, its because his wife is of low quality. And if a woman cheats, it’s because her husband is of low quality? That follows the line of thought in your original post above.


The above statement is quite accurate actually, and reciprocal to both genders.

The problem is that too many 1..2..3..4 type situations leave the person unable to cope with the 1..100 life throws at us. Do it often enough and well enough and life becomes 1...1...1...1...1 and so on.


----------



## Cletus

Anon Pink said:


> So your wife told you she wanted support not solutions. How did you figure out HOW to support? Where did you learn that listening is a form of support instead of sending her to the store to buy something, because that's support too.


Trial and error, I suppose. 

"Would you like me to go beat someone up?" -- No.
"Ok, I'm out of ideas. What would you like me to do?" -- Just listen
"Ok, I can do that". 

Sometimes an opinion is requested. Then I give it, freely. I'm sure my ability to be truly supportive in these situations is pretty limited. It is not usually in the universe of my needs to talk through a problem with another person who is not related to the problem, so being supportive when someone else is doing it does not come naturally. For that truly deep empathic experience, she has female friends.


----------



## tacoma

Anon Pink said:


> A. was this something you mindfully decided to do?


Yes, very mindfully.
Men and women "generally" react to stress differently and it was a learning curve to keep from treating every emotional problem like a triage that needs to be fixed right now.



> B. something that came naturally to you?


Not at all, as mentioned above.
I am a problem solver by nature, even my own emotional problems I tend to approach with an analytical mind by taking the time to filter the emotional from the rational so I can "fix" the problem as quickly and painlessly as possible.
I will analyze the emotional impact of a problem after I've fixed it.
After the stress has been relieved I'll ask myself why I reacted the way I did, how my reaction affected my eventual "fix" etc..
Women tend to do this in reverse.



> C. something you learned to do as a result of "feedback" (for lack of a better word) from your wife or someone significant in your life?


Years ago I was told by a tearful SO when attempting to fix her problem that she could fix it herself.
What she wanted from me was just to listen and empathize.
It was enlightening and I've never forgotten it.



> A. reasonably compassionate man in all areas?


I am BUT my need to apply objectivity to all areas of my life often leaves people with the idea that I'm not.

Often people empathize so strongly over the emotional outcome of a situation that it takes priority over actually addressing the need to be pro-active in dealing with the cause of it.
Sometimes people want to alleviate the emotional fallout of a trauma so badly their actions actually exasperate the problem. 



> Tacoma, your answers were excellent but I'm sorry to say only commonsenseisntit mentioned the application of chocolate which resulted in the MOST compassionate response.


That's my wifes fault, she's not into sweets.
I have better luck with a 16 oz steak and all the trimmings.


----------



## Joey2k

Anon Pink said:


> Excellent question!
> 
> For me, I'm okay with offered guidance or fixing type responses. But only if the compassion and empathy are also present. Without the compassion and empathy it *feels* like your boss or parent is reprimanding.
> 
> Take a burned dinner...
> "Awe honey I know your disappointed the dinner is burned. I bet it would have been so good. Next time you want to blow me before dinner let's remember to turn the burners off first?"
> 
> Empathy first, fixing second.


Good answer. Both parties get to have their needs taken into consideration. As long as both parties realize what is happening and what their part is and respect each other's needs.



norajane said:


> *I think because it's not your problem to fix, it's her problem.* And venting with her spouse (or a friend or her sister or a co-worker friend, etc.) is part of how she deals with it. She needs to blow off steam, vent the anger or disappointment or whatever high emotion she's feeling, and then work on the solution.
> 
> I work from home most often, and both my sister and my SO have this habit of calling me when they are driving home from work. What do they do? They vent to me about the traffic and about their work day. This is not fun for me, lol! But I listen because that's all they're asking for - just someone to talk with and vent their frustrations.


If it's not my problem to fix, then don't bring me into it in the first place. She makes it my problem when she brings me in on it. 

And venting is not "dealing" with the problem. The problem is still there, venting hasn't done anything to make it go away. Much of the time, that seems to be the only way women try to deal with a problem, venting to make themselves feel better (and making the men in their lives feel worse in the process), while doing nothing to actually solve the problem.


----------



## Anon Pink

tacoma said:


> Years ago I was told by a tearful SO when attempting to fix her problem that she could fix it herself.
> What she wanted from me was just to listen and empathize.
> It was enlightening and I've never forgotten it.


Hmmmm, so would you agree that you've never forgotten it because you wanted to be able to meet her needs?

This truly puzzles me because if we open our eyes we can receive lessons in self development every single day. What makes one message hit home and another message completely forgettable?

What was going on with you at the time that this message hit home and took root so well?







> That's my wifes fault, she's not into sweets.
> I have better luck with a 16 oz steak and all the trimmings.



Ah, now it makes sense. In that case you win too. A nice rib eye does have curative properties!


----------



## Mr. Nail

I wanted to get my replies in before I read everyone else so I know I'll be lucky to make page 6. Mostly I do hope that women will read this and somehow understand how hard this is for us men. There are so many wrong answers and the right answer changes so quickly we really don't have a lot of hope of getting it right even a fair percentage of the time.



Anon Pink said:


> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?


Saying, That was mean, I wouldn't like that either. That is a difficult situation. Try not to bring up revenge or quitting her job as solutions to the problem. (note if it gets too bad support her decision to quit)
Doing Listening, not participating in the altercation.



Anon Pink said:


> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?


saying, Well that was a pretty spectacular flub up (if it was) the things you say should be aimed at lightening the mood. It is ok to ask if she wants help. It is not a good idea to offer solutions unless she asks. I have been able to offer the proper tool for the job without getting into trouble.
Doing, Get food, take care of dinner or any other critical needs until she is back on track.



Anon Pink said:


> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?


Saying, This is a serious trouble area for me. So I keep quiet. for up to 3 days. 
Doing, Then I hand her the pill or treatment that she should have taken the first day but thought she could handle it herself.



Anon Pink said:


> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


Saying, the idea here is to team up to conquer. So talking to make a plan. Assuring her that we have been through worse and we will handle this as well.
Doing, As long as you follow through on the plans above you are o k

MN


----------



## Anon Pink

Cletus said:


> Trial and error, I suppose.
> 
> "Would you like me to go beat someone up?" -- No.
> "Ok, I'm out of ideas. What would you like me to do?" -- Just listen
> "Ok, I can do that".
> 
> Sometimes an opinion is requested. Then I give it, freely. I'm sure my ability to be truly supportive in these situations is pretty limited. It is not usually in the universe of my needs to talk through a problem with another person who is not related to the problem, so being supportive when someone else is doing it does not come naturally. For that truly deep empathic experience, she has female friends.



I think one of the lessons women learn as they age is that their man is not their GF and we prefer that way. This doesn't preclude an appropriate emotional response from our man. But we do recognize that if he did act like a listening GF he would likely NOT be our man for very long.


----------



## Deejo

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


You know I'm big on context. I'll answer as if responding to my GF. Ex-wife may fit too, but again, regarding my point, 2 completely different women, two completely different models of expressing themselves.

1. Determine if she just needs to vent and feel, or if she is looking for a resolution or remediation to the argument. If the former, I keep my mouth shut, and Listen, Support, Hold.

If the latter, tell her I admire her 'no nonsense' approach to clearly expressing herself, and now that she is out of the circumstance which she felt has a bigger need to be addressed, the argument itself or what was being argued about.

2. "Is there anything I can do to help?"

3. Probably don't change anything about my day. But, again if I'm around, "Is there anything I can get you?"

4. Point and laugh?

"Anything you want to talk about?" And if so, use the LiSH method once again.


----------



## norajane

Joey2k said:


> If it's not my problem to fix, then don't bring me into it in the first place. She makes it my problem when she brings me in on it.
> 
> And venting is not "dealing" with the problem. The problem is still there, venting hasn't done anything to make it go away. Much of the time, that seems to be the only way women try to deal with a problem, venting to make themselves feel better (and making the men in their lives feel worse in the process), while doing nothing to actually solve the problem.


As I said, a lot of us feel the need to vent the emotions first in order to then tackle the problem. She managed her problems on her own before you came along, so she can manage them now, too.

If you don't want your wife to bring her problems to you, you are shutting down communication. Eventually, you will get what you want and she will talk with friends or family instead, leaving the two of you more and more disconnected.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

1. I was in an open relationship once, so I had to learn a lot about communication. It still failed, only because the other person decided not to be honest. I did learn valuable skills. Also, every failed relationship is an opportunity to grow and learn. I operate on a more analytical basis.

2. I believe myself to be highly compassionate. I am a humanist. I do charity work on my free time, because it benefits us as a society and benefits us as a species. The more attached I am towards someone, the more patience I will show. The more attached we are, the more we allow that attachment to let us suffer. It is hard for an abused victim to leave their abuser for those reasons.

I am not too idealistic, but whatever help I can provide will help stack the odds in someone else favor to succeed. I also do not judge people on their pain. I had a miserable childhood filled with violence. I have a higher threshold against pain, and for someone who had an easier life, they do not have the experience or insight on how to cope. So I cannot judge anyone's pain and suffering compared to mine. Some claim that infidelity is the worse pain they went through. I suffered a lot worse, and when I was faced with it, I had a lot more painful experience than that one. I am sure there are others who suffered worse than I did, and I am grateful that I never had that experience.


----------



## Anon Pink

Mr. Nail said:


> Saying, This is a serious trouble area for me. So I keep quiet. for up to 3 days.
> Doing, Then I hand her the pill or treatment that she should have taken the first day but thought she could handle it herself.
> 
> 
> MN



Excellent answers!

Is your response above a learned response specific to your wife? Has she expressed her desire to be left alone while she suffers and you do you best but after a time you insist she treat whatever is happening? Or was this something you figured out through the years and seems to work best for her?


----------



## Joey2k

norajane said:


> If you don't want your wife to bring her problems to you,* you are shutting down communication.* Eventually, you will get what you want and she will talk with friends or family instead, leaving the two of you more and more disconnected.


Isn't she doing the same thing when she rejects or gets annoyed by my "help"?


----------



## Anon Pink

Deejo said:


> You know I'm big on context. I'll answer as if responding to my GF. Ex-wife may fit too, but again, regarding my point, 2 completely different women, two completely different models of expressing themselves.
> 
> 1. Determine if she just needs to vent and feel, or if she is looking for a resolution or remediation to the argument. If the former, I keep my mouth shut, and Listen, Support, Hold.
> 
> If the latter, tell her I admire her 'no nonsense' approach to clearly expressing herself, and now that she is out of the circumstance which she felt has a bigger need to be addressed, the argument itself or what was being argued about.
> 
> 2. "Is there anything I can do to help?"
> 
> 3. Probably don't change anything about my day. But, again if I'm around, "Is there anything I can get you?"
> 
> 4. Point and laugh?
> 
> "Anything you want to talk about?" And if so, use the LiSH method once again.



I thought pointing and laughing was the right response for when SHE screws up?


----------



## norajane

Joey2k said:


> Isn't she doing the same thing when she rejects or gets annoyed by my "help"?


She was telling you how she feels, not asking for a solution. So the help you are offering (fixing her problem) is not the help she was seeking. She was seeking to be heard, not fixed.


----------



## Anon Pink

Joey2k said:


> Isn't she doing the same thing when she rejects or gets annoyed by my "help"?


Now that's very interesting. So do you feel rejected if she doesn't take your fix on board?


----------



## ocotillo

anon pink said:


> i have some follow up questions if you would be so kind.
> 
> 1. The responses you indicated,
> a. Was this something you mindfully decided to do?
> B. Something that came naturally to you?
> C. Something you learned to do as a result of "feedback" (for lack of a better word) from your wife or someone significant in your life?​





anon pink said:


> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?


*c.*



anon pink said:


> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?


*c.*



anon pink said:


> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?


*b.*




anon pink said:


> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


*
a. *

​




anon pink said:


> 2. Would you judge yourself to be
> a. Reasonably compassionate man in all areas?
> B. Reasonably compassionate with only a chosen few areas or relationships?
> C. Not very compassionate naturally.​


Depending upon what aspects of compassion/empathy you're talking about, I'd say none of the above. 

I'm compassionate and empathetic at a physical/animal level (As in being very good with animals, getting plants to grow that other people kill, serving as a medic, etc.) 

At an emotional/mental level, (Which seems to be the primary thrust of your questions..) compassion and especially empathy come a little harder, because they are by their very nature based in part upon common experience and reactions.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Thanks Ocotillo..

Clarification of my beliefs:

Presence of quality behaviors contributes to the health and richness of a relationship especially when the capacity to receive them is present. It can fuel confidence to engage.

Lack of quality behaviors does not cause someone to cheat nor justifies that choice.


----------



## Joey2k

Anon Pink said:


> Now that's very interesting. So do you feel rejected if she doesn't take your fix on board?


Unappreciated is probably more like it.

As I've said before, too many women expect men to be women with penises. If you want help solving a problem, go to a man. If you want someone to commiserate and cry about it with you, that's not something we're good at, talk to a another woman.

If I need my oil changed, I don't go to the doctor, I go to a mechanic.


----------



## Deejo

Anon Pink said:


> I thought pointing and laughing was the right response for when SHE screws up?


I was being humorous, but yes, you are right. More appropriate for her screw ups.

I just went back and read the other responses.

I operate under a substantially different model than I once did.

For example, imagining these scenarios with my ex is very different. 
She had an extraordinarily hard time expressing those kinds of circumstances if she felt she could or would be judged or criticized ... an esteem thing. God honest truth, she didn't cook for this reason alone.

Therefore it was my job to find a way to gently cajole her into sharing her feelings ... which often would end up transferred onto me. No good deed goes unpunished. To ex's credit, she has done A LOT of work in that arena since. And she cooks, fearlessly. She told me about the first time she 'winged' a recipe with a big smile on her face. I complimented her. Had her partner and the kids hated it, she would have been heartbroken.

Deej don't play that no more.

I will LiSH you til the cows come home, but if I don't get the sense that you want, need, or have specifically asked me for help, I'm generally not going to offer. I have confidence that any partner suitable for me, can figure it out, or will say otherwise.


----------



## tacoma

Anon Pink said:


> Hmmmm, so would you agree that you've never forgotten it because you wanted to be able to meet her needs?


Yes but...Not exactly.
We were young, both hot headed and the relationship was very volatile.
The revelation that she required a completely different approach to soothing her emotional traumas than I did was in my mind a way to mitigate a great deal of that volatilty.
I wanted to be a better mate and this concept struck me as a way to do that.



> This truly puzzles me because if we open our eyes we can receive lessons in self development every single day. What makes one message hit home and another message completely forgettable?


This one hit home because it has been a recurring theme in all of my relationships and I found that when I took the time to just let her run through the emotions by being attentive and empathizing instead of immediately jumping in and spouting out a plan of action to fix the problem it had a much more positive effect on her emotional outlook.

Where I used to immediately jump in and start with "well if we do this then this will happen which will mitagate that and then it will be fixed!"
I now just allow myself to be there for her physically and emotionally while she runs through her own emotions.

This usually allows her to regain composure fairly quickly at which point instead of laying out my master plan to make all her troubles go away I just let her know "If there's anything I can do to make this easier on you just let me know what it is and it's done".

Ultimately this way of dealing with her problems enabled me to help her to actually solve them instead of adding to them



> What was going on with you at the time that this message hit home and took root so well?


As I said, it was a volatile relationship but I thought I was so in love and wanted to make it work.
This revelation was one of very few successes I had in an otherwise horrendous experience.
That stuck with me.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

You give her emotions space to breathe without owning or internalizing them Tacoma  You are right it is very effective.


----------



## Racer

Anon Pink said:


> So to a healthy person, any attempted response or effort to respond is showing compassion? To an unhealthy person, only a specific response will be interpreted as an appropriate response?


Sort of, but not quite; It is a hard concept. You observe and note the response and effort is for you in an attempt to influence your emotional state. Just the facts or ‘input’ into your head.

From there, a lot happens between your ears that is entirely outside anyone’s ability to influence. You interpret this observation and make your own decision about what it means using your own experiences and lessons in life and what that might mean if you did that. You use your judgment and intuition filling in those blanks because no one can really mind read other people. A healthy person recognizes they do this and has a series of internal checks and balances as they start making assumptions. Because of this, they also understand how to influence that emotional outcome inside.

When getting a gift, it is “the thought that counts”. That’s just a way to warp your interpretation into a framework that supports how you want to feel. Versus thinking “what a uncaring sh!tty gift” which you can allow to domino into a chain reaction of character assassination of this person who gave it. It’s the same coping tools. 

The real motivations behind the person giving you these gifts is not really known… you make that assumption which changes the nature of it all. You can’t read minds. A healthy person understands they are making these assumptions. The unhealthy one doesn’t and assumes however they felt about it was exactly how this other person meant them to feel. They don’t “own” their emotions or role.

So the only ‘wrong answer’ to any of this is flat out stating your intentions and reacting in a way you know your spouse will not react well to and has made that quite clear. 

“Nothing or no reaction” is not invalid; You filling that open book with a character assassination about it meaning all this bad stuff like them not caring or being emotionally unavailable or whatever isn’t healthy; Why not? you are already in a bad mood right? It’s setting the framework for your emotional response regardless of how they might actually feel about it all. 

The reality really could be he's distracted, also distraught, but see's you aren't available to help him... so he's dealing with his own issues. It's not uncaring at all, but more finding it hard to help you when he's not capable of handling it or becoming Mr. Cheerful on cue just because that is what you want.


----------



## Anon Pink

Joey2k said:


> Unappreciated is probably more like it.
> 
> As I've said before, too many women expect men to be women with penises. If you want help solving a problem, go to a man. If you want someone to commiserate and cry about it with you, that's not something we're good at, talk to a another woman.
> 
> If I need my oil changed, I don't go to the doctor, I go to a mechanic.


Okay Joey, so you feel unappreciated and feel like your role as a man is to fix and when your role is denied you feel unappreciated. Can I ask you to read Tacoma's response below? What do think of his accumulated life experience and how that has altered the way he relates to his wife? Do you think this is appropriate for you?





Deejo said:


> I was being humorous, but yes, you are right. More appropriate for her screw ups.
> 
> I just went back and read the other responses.
> 
> I operate under a substantially different model than I once did.
> 
> For example, imagining these scenarios with my ex is very different.
> She had an extraordinarily hard time expressing those kinds of circumstances if she felt she could or would be judged or criticized ... an esteem thing. God honest truth, she didn't cook for this reason alone.
> 
> A fear of failure! Those of us who have vast experience with failure have certainly learned well that failure, while painful, is sometimes the only way to grow.
> 
> Therefore it was my job to find a way to gently cajole her into sharing her feelings ... which often would end up transferred onto me. No good deed goes unpunished. To ex's credit, she has done A LOT of work in that arena since. And she cooks, fearlessly. She told me about the first time she 'winged' a recipe with a big smile on her face. I complimented her. Had her partner and the kids hated it, she would have been heartbroken.
> 
> Deej don't play that no more.
> 
> I will LiSH you til the cows come home, but if I don't get the sense that you want, need, or have specifically asked me for help, I'm generally not going to offer. I have confidence that any partner suitable for me, can figure it out, or will say otherwise.


Okay Deejo, where or how did you learn the Listen Support Hold method of relating to a woman? Did you take a class or read a book?





tacoma said:


> Yes but...Not exactly.
> We were young, both hot headed and the relationship was very volatile.
> The revelation that she required a completely different approach to soothing her emotional traumas than I did was in my mind a way to mitigate a great deal of that volatilty.
> I wanted to be a better mate and this concept struck me as a way to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> This one hit home because it has been a recurring theme in all of my relationships and I found that when I took the time to just let her run through the emotions by being attentive and empathizing instead of immediately jumping in and spouting out a plan of action to fix the problem it had a much more positive effect on her emotional outlook.
> 
> Where I used to immediately jump in and start with "well if we do this then this will happen which will mitagate that and then it will be fixed!"
> I now just allow myself to be there for her physically and emotionally while she runs through her own emotions.
> 
> This usually allows her to regain composure fairly quickly at which point instead of laying out my master plan to make all her troubles go away I just let her know "If there's anything I can do to make this easier on you just let me know what it is and it's done".
> 
> Ultimately this way of dealing with her problems enabled me to help her to actually solve them instead of adding to them
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, it was a volatile relationship but I thought I was so in love and wanted to make it work.
> This revelation was one of very few successes I had in an otherwise horrendous experience.
> That stuck with me.



Tacoma, IOW, you cared enough to pay attention to what worked and what didn't work.


----------



## Joey2k

Anon Pink said:


> Okay Joey, so you feel unappreciated and feel like your role as a man is to fix and when your role is denied you feel unappreciated. Can I ask you to read Tacoma's response below? What do think of his accumulated life experience and how that has altered the way he relates to his wife? Do you think this is appropriate for you?


"If there's anything I can do to make this easier on you just let me know what it is and it's done".

That is pretty much my go-to response. Put the ball in her court as to whether she wants me to do anything. It makes me feel like I am offering to contribute to a solution without pushing one on her. 

Although sometimes it feels like the message I am sending her is "Give me a task to do that will help fix this or else leave me alone about it". She doesn't seem to take it that way though, so I guess it seems to work fairly well for us.


----------



## Deejo

We are all subject to, affected and influenced by the dynamics we create with our partner.

In my case, I flooded my ex with compassion and empathy ... because she didn't get it growing up, and it made her feel loved and valued ... until it didn't.

In sum, in my case it eventually bit me in the ass. And I adjusted poorly ... basically didn't adjust at all, instead I poured it on more. 

What I'm saying is, and I think what others have been trying to say is that the response you get ... can and will be influenced by the responses you have given.

My ex for example, if she beared her heart to me to support me, and in my funk I bit her head off, her response is not going to be, "That's alright, I know you're upset."

She's going to withdraw, and never, ever, do that again.

And voila, you have just created a dynamic.

So, in my experience as others have indicated. 

Good responses and communication seem to foster further good responses and communication.

Lacking responses and communication can foster any number of potential outcomes, and few of them aid in strengthening your bond, but they certainly create the opportunity for further communication.


----------



## jld

Deejo, I am not convinced compassion and empathy ever go to waste. You seem to have been a very caring husband and I think you should feel proud of that. 

But along with those needs to come truthfulness. If we truly care, we will be as truthful as we can be. I really think it is part of caring, even though sometimes it is very hard to do, and painful for the one hearing it.


----------



## Deejo

Anon Pink said:


> Okay Deejo, where or how did you learn the Listen Support Hold method of relating to a woman? Did you take a class or read a book?


I made it up.

I have a pretty high EIQ. No one is ever going to accuse me of being the strong, silent type that isn't in touch with his feelings.

As some here have indicated, I used to feel compelled to fix. Fixing can win you praise and make you a hero. You get to demonstrate value.

Imagine my surprise, when just like was indicated in a previous post, women often don't want you to fix their problem. They just want to verbalize it, be heard, and feel empathized with.

Empathy is a slippery slope. Usually it isn't real empathy. It's the appearance of it. And that may just p!ss off some women more.

So, for me? 

I often let her lead the field. I'm ok with sitting there in silence with an arm around her and stroking her hair.

If that makes me a hero too, all the better.

I function off a very simple operational premise these days;

Do the things that foster love, security and attraction.

Don't do the things that tank it.


----------



## Racer

Oh, and the bug up my arse about this has to do with my experiences.

It’s that “being who you want and need in the moment” that bugs me about all this. They are a whole other person; To do something, you sort of have to be in that mood to want to do this for them. I believe that is a reasonable perspective. 

So, these stories are great. But they should not be the expectation. The expectation should be nothing. Anything over that is icing and wonderful and truly a gift from a great person; a reason why you are with them is because they do this stuff for you and it's not done because they have to... they want to. You need to allow in your framework that they are allowed to have their own moods and sometimes, it won’t be some grand gesture and sometimes they’ll just keep their distance. That’s kind of the difference between healthy and not healthy. It’s seeing what you get, not keeping score on what you didn’t.

My own personal experience with ‘sick wife’ is like this. While she’s sitting on the couch, sipping her tea I made, she’s alone with her thoughts. I’m cooking dinner or helping the kids so she can relax. She doesn’t see it like that. She’s feeling abandoned, mad because I didn’t get her a comfy blanket, and doing character assassinations because I obviously don’t care and she’s not feeling any better. She wants to be fully coddled. Even if I do, then it’s my fault the kids didn’t finish homework and dinner came from a can. There are no winners here.


----------



## Deejo

Hell, I'm leaving out the most glaring example of 'What have you learned, Deejo?'

Sunday before last, I got dumped.
My partner calmly, and reasonably explained to me her reasons why there wasn't much reason to go on dating, as it didn't appear that we had long term potential.

I didn't argue. I didn't plead. I didn't try to talk her out of it. All I pretty much said was, "I understand, and I'm sorry."

Heard back from her last week that she had done a lot of thinking, and had talked to her therapist. She acknowledged that she became consumed by fear. So rather than risk more hurt later on down the line, she was going to pull the plug then and there. She felt her decision was entirely made out of her fear, rather than something I had or hadn't done.

Apparently her therapist gave me high marks for listening to her, and respecting her feelings rather than trying to talk her out of them. So ... I got a bump in the polls from the therapist too.

Long story short, we are back together, and she is more deeply connected to, and expressive with me now, than she was. 

So apparently there is something to this whole listen to, and be respectful of those we love ... even when, if not particularly when doing so is hardest.


----------



## jld

And it is so important to be willing to accept No Deal, when Win/Win is not possible.

Never try too hard in a relationship.


----------



## Anon Pink

Deejo said:


> We are all subject to, affected and influenced by the dynamics we create with our partner.
> 
> In my case, I flooded my ex with compassion and empathy ... because she didn't get it growing up, and it made her feel loved and valued ... until it didn't.
> 
> In sum, in my case it eventually bit me in the ass. And I adjusted poorly ... basically didn't adjust at all, instead I poured it on more.
> 
> What I'm saying is, and I think what others have been trying to say is that the response you get ... can and will be influenced by the responses you have given.
> 
> My ex for example, if she beared her heart to me to support me, and in my funk I bit her head off, her response is not going to be, "That's alright, I know you're upset."
> 
> She's going to withdraw, and never, ever, do that again.
> 
> And voila, you have just created a dynamic.
> 
> So, in my experience as others have indicated.
> 
> Good responses and communication seem to foster further good responses and communication.
> 
> Lacking responses and communication can foster any number of potential outcomes, and few of them aid in strengthening your bond, but they certainly create the opportunity for further communication.


Wow Deejo. You flooded her with support and it made her feel loved, until it didn't. I'm thinking she had finally gotten enough support from you that she now needed to grow and maybe she felt your support as coddling her and holding her back instead when want she wanted by then was to be challenged? 

So your dynamic changed only you didn't get the memo until she began interviewing for replacements? 

How do you think this might have been averted? Had she had the self awareness to explain to you what she needed and wanted from you, would you have been in a place to alter your method of engagement to allow for the more mature woman in front of you?


ETA: wow, I damn near spit out my coffee when I read she had broken up with you! Not nice to drop bombs like that. I am so relieved she gained her sense back. You two seem perfect for each other!


----------



## Anon Pink

Racer said:


> Oh, and the bug up my arse about this has to do with my experiences.
> 
> It’s that “being who you want and need in the moment” that bugs me about all this. They are a whole other person; To do something, you sort of have to be in that mood to want to do this for them. I believe that is a reasonable perspective.
> 
> So, these stories are great. But they should not be the expectation. The expectation should be nothing. Anything over that is icing and wonderful and truly a gift from a great person; a reason why you are with them is because they do this stuff for you and it's not done because they have to... they want to. You need to allow in your framework that they are allowed to have their own moods and sometimes, it won’t be some grand gesture and sometimes they’ll just keep their distance. That’s kind of the difference between healthy and not healthy. It’s seeing what you get, not keeping score on what you didn’t.
> 
> My own personal experience with ‘sick wife’ is like this. While she’s sitting on the couch, sipping her tea I made, she’s alone with her thoughts. I’m cooking dinner or helping the kids so she can relax. She doesn’t see it like that. She’s feeling abandoned, mad because I didn’t get her a comfy blanket, and doing character assassinations because I obviously don’t care and she’s not feeling any better. She wants to be fully coddled. Even if I do, then it’s my fault the kids didn’t finish homework and dinner came from a can. There are no winners here.



Racer, it seems your framing the entire compassion support question within your wife's crazy making expectations? You're right, with your wife there are no winners. No matter what you do it will not be enough. So where does that leave you in being able to offer love? Are you being warped because your wife is unappeasable?


----------



## Anon Pink

Joey2k said:


> *"If there's anything I can do to make this easier on you just let me know what it is and it's done".*
> 
> That is pretty much my go-to response. Put the ball in her court as to whether she wants me to do anything. It makes me feel like I am offering to contribute to a solution without pushing one on her.
> 
> Although sometimes it feels like the message I am sending her is "Give me a task to do that will help fix this or else leave me alone about it". She doesn't seem to take it that way though, so I guess it seems to work fairly well for us.



That's perfect!


----------



## Deejo

Racer said:


> My own personal experience with ‘sick wife’ is like this. While she’s sitting on the couch, sipping her tea I made, she’s alone with her thoughts. I’m cooking dinner or helping the kids so she can relax. She doesn’t see it like that. She’s feeling abandoned, mad because I didn’t get her a comfy blanket, and doing character assassinations because I obviously don’t care and she’s not feeling any better. She wants to be fully coddled. Even if I do, then it’s my fault the kids didn’t finish homework and dinner came from a can. There are no winners here.


This is definitely where I now would point and laugh.


----------



## Joey2k

Anon Pink said:


> That's perfect!


That was actually Tacoma, I stole it from him. But it's pretty close to what I try and do


----------



## Deejo

Anon Pink said:


> Wow Deejo. You flooded her with support and it made her feel loved, until it didn't. I'm thinking she had finally gotten enough support from you that she now needed to grow and maybe she felt your support as coddling her and holding her back instead when want she wanted by then was to be challenged?
> 
> So your dynamic changed only you didn't get the memo until she began interviewing for replacements?
> 
> How do you think this might have been averted? Had she had the self awareness to explain to you what she needed and wanted from you, would you have been in a place to alter your method of engagement to allow for the more mature woman in front of you?
> 
> 
> ETA: wow, I damn near spit out my coffee when I read she had broken up with you! Not nice to drop bombs like that. I am so relieved she gained her sense back. You two seem perfect for each other!


There was a time when I met my ex's emotional needs. And then she didn't need me to meet her emotional needs. The children did that. At which point I simply served as the dutiful husband for years, expecting that we would regroup and recommit. But quite the opposite happened.

Things are seldom as cut and dry as we want them to be.

Even GF and I have had this conversation. The very things that make us so good together and such a great fit, and emotionally smart, simply weren't in place several years ago. 

My bottom line is, if you NEED something from your partner and they cannot or will not provide it, then you have two options, coping strategies, or find a new partner.

If coping strategies take the form of resentment and bitterness, than finding a new partner ends up being the only reasonable outcome.


----------



## Anon Pink

Well sh!t....


----------



## Racer

Anon Pink said:


> Racer, it seems your framing the entire compassion support question within your wife's crazy making expectations? You're right, with your wife there are no winners. No matter what you do it will not be enough. So where does that leave you in being able to offer love? Are you being warped because your wife is unappeasable?


It leaves you spending a few years calling her out on her crazy with discussions like this. It leaves me making "intent and motivation" statements to basically place limitations on how far she can irrationally get in her head. But, she’s not crazy…. Just sort of on that edge of ‘normal’ tied to a negative slant on most everything. “Entitled” with “rights” and “expectations” was her issue because she truly believed that ring entitled her to these things. The whole “bought the cow” mindset. 

Me… I’m ok. I know what my own feelings and intentions are regardless of how she tries to interpret them. So I just sort of make those statements like “I’m sorry you are sick… that sucks… why don’t I _____”. I had to learn to communicate it so she couldn’t fill in the blanks with her own mindreading.

Just think about it…… the “says nothing, does nothing” response by your spouse. Where would your mind go? Bet it isn’t a pleasant place as it relates to him. You have such a lovely unwritten novel to fill with your own ideas about what he’s thinking. Hence why I fill in some of those blanks for her now.

Flip it. Your husband is feeling sick and surly. He’s moaning and complaining. Not because of you, but because he’s sick and feels frustrated and on edge. He’s snippy with you. Are you really going to want to shower him with love and affection and cater to his various coddling needs when he’s like this? Or just leave him the hell alone doing the bare minimum you feel you should until he shows signs he is appreciating your efforts and sees what you are doing are gifts meant for him? He plays a role in how you treat him yes? Isn’t it true you are you and have your own feelings about all this regardless of how he thinks you should behave and feel? He can't control that.

She’s not that crazy; hence we could fix this by adding perception and giving her some better coping skills (plus a hefty dose of humility where she had to admit she doesn’t always think straight and can be wrong; which is ok because no one is totally rational all the time). Once she accepted this, it was easier for her to check herself or laugh at how totally irrational her head gets when emotions peak. And I love her all the more for this recognition about herself.


----------



## Anon Pink

Racer, excellent points. You show compassion with built in boundaries so she can't write the novel of neglect.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Anon Pink said:


> Racer, excellent points. You show compassion with built in boundaries so she can't write the novel of neglect.


Quality behaviors do not guarantee the novel of neglect won't be written, unfortunately.


----------



## Anon Pink

Blossom Leigh said:


> Quality behaviors do not guarantee the novel of neglect won't be written, unfortunately.


Would you make up your mind? Does quality beget quality of does quality have no effect on what we get?




Blossom Leigh said:


> I believe the man's response for some will be based on the quality of the woman talking. Ocotillo's post says that to me.
> 
> She's quality
> 
> He trusts her
> 
> Thus he listens and reasons and supports where necessary and gives her quality in return.


Oh sure. No back pedaling here...


----------



## Blossom Leigh

maybe it's the last line of my wording that is throwing you... so let me clarify...

he appreciates her quality and it encourages him to meet her with quality or enjoys joining his to hers... he was expressing appreciation of her quality in his post.

I hope that helps because I have YET to back peddle or flip flop in my beliefs or comments. It is others who have applied their perspective TO my comments... so one more time.

Quality tends to foster quality

though it does not guarantee reciprocity

its absence does not cause cheating nor justifies it.

and quality can be offered on one side by choice, which in turn may or may not affect the relationship in a progressive manner.

If what I am saying is not understood at this point... I'm good with it. That's all that matters.


----------



## Steve1000

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *"If that happened to me, I would be upset to". Then mostly just listen while she talks about it. *
> 
> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *"Don't worry, Honey, in 20 years from now, you'll barely remember it" *
> 
> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> *Ask her every hour if she would like anything such as a drink, a snack, or a warm towel and let her know I care.*
> 
> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


*In this case, I would just listen to her and be supportive whether I think she is overreacting or not. Then I would say "go make me a sandwich!". Just joking about the previous sentence.*


----------



## ocotillo

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this.


So was this 'satiable curiosity or something else?


----------



## Cletus

Anon Pink said:


> Would you make up your mind? Does quality beget quality of does quality have no effect on what we get?


Quality only begets quality in a spouse dedicated to reciprocity. Spouses who don't believe this aren't necessarily bad people, just don't expect them to behave well to you because you've been good to them.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Be good because it is the right thing to do

Not because something is expected in return


----------



## Mr. Nail

Anon Pink said:


> Excellent answers!
> 
> Is your response above a learned response specific to your wife? Has she expressed her desire to be left alone while she suffers and you do you best but after a time you insist she treat whatever is happening? Or was this something you figured out through the years and seems to work best for her?


Everything was learned through long and hard experience. And I think much of it is specific to her personality. 

The specific Case 3 health trouble is something that has baffled me. It almost feels like a martyr syndrome. Like she feels she must suffer to justify her being. I'm sure this is not just her because diet food exists. You can't loose weight unless you eat tasteless food? But not to get sidetracked. Menstrual relief medication is always in my home. She has no trouble taking pain killers but those pills are only used on the 3rd day of suffering. Almost as if she is saying I'm a competent woman I can handle this without help. It's my curse, don't interfere with it. 

Then there is her back. She has had upper back trouble since she was a teen. Probably because she was so blessed. The back frequently is out of alignment causing a myriad of troubles elsewhere. I know it is the root of much of her leg pain and headaches. Over time we have worked out some quick realignment methods. Takes me no time to fix her up. The trouble is usually it has to be done two or three days in a row, and it is not painless. So the mystery to me is she will endure weeks of pain before she will get 3 quick treatments. 

As far as compassion and empathy, in this case. She will almost always accept 30 minute body massage, if I'm not to frustrated to do it.
MN


----------



## Anon Pink

ocotillo said:


> So was this 'satiable curiosity or something else?


Yes.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Deejo said:


> she had done a lot of thinking, and had talked to her therapist. She acknowledged that she became consumed by fear. So rather than risk more hurt later on down the line, she was going to pull the plug then and there. She felt her decision was entirely made out of her fear, rather than something I had or hadn't done..


Deejo,
Get her this. Reconnecting It has been a real eyeopener.


----------



## john117

Anon Pink said:


> Racer, excellent points. You show compassion with built in boundaries so she can't write the novel of neglect.



Depends on her perception of said boundaries... And her expectations.


----------



## SpinDaddy

Anon Pink said:


> . . . .
> Spin daddy and MEM were the only ones who mentioned physical affection. Hmmmm.
> . . . .


Howdy Anon,

Thanks for running the statistics here – very interesting.

One point, and not that you did but some posts suggest my “hugging and patting Ms. Spin’s behind”, may have been misconstrued as me trying to get some “action” – nothing could be further from the truth.

Really, in my advanced stage of life as I know it, so many things are beyond our control, not fixable and really the best we can do is to be there and comfort each other as we deal with crap. And that’s really all that is – I love you and I’m here for you.

To my defense however, I have perfected mocking impersonations for several of Ms. Spin’s key nemeses and will engage those acts of levity. 

One of my favorites is a particularly misogynistic, pot-bellied, Cub Scout leader who has a habit of puffing his chest out and hiking up his pants before he speaks – CLASSIC HYJINKS!


----------



## MYM1430

Anon,
Regarding how I learned to actively listen:
After many trial and error attempts to fix her problem I learned what worked and what didn't. Offering advice, help, criticism or comments didn't work. Listening, gentle touches, extra space, quiet time did.


----------



## Anon Pink

Mr. Nail, I can't imagine why anyone would tough it out. God made vicodin for a reason! 

John, as always you find the exceptions. However, it doesn't matter what the boundaries are, it matter how she perceives them.

Spin, you're welcome and I imagine your impersonation is funny enough to make her forget many troubles! Nothing beats a good laugh!

MYM, you must be a very observant fellow.


----------



## john117

Anon, finding the exceptions makes us understand the rules and their limitations. That's how science works 

The main reason I fell in love with my wife was her independence when we met. She would either address problems on her own or ignore them, but she would take ownership either way. This is par with her going against her upbringing and "spreading her wings"... 

As years went by she realized being an adult is too much work and offloaded a lot of her "problems" to the resident psychologist. This is par with her upbringing where her father and his minions took care of everything. 

I have used my sizable problem solving and listening and emphatic skills to help in many ways but too much help gets people complacent. So there's a very fine line between being a partner, being a fixer and being an enabler.


----------



## SpinDaddy

intheory said:


> Anytime my husband; or anyone else for that matter wants to "fix" a problem I'm having; and make it go away --- have at it!
> 
> 
> I know that doesn't work for emotional venting. So let the person vent.
> 
> My H's work situation is such that he has a constant need to vent to me about it. For years, I tried to come up with solutions for him.
> 
> At one point I said, "Let's not tell each other about work, 'cause we can't fix workplace problems for each other."
> 
> He did not like this approach. Now that I stay at home, I consider it part of my job almost, to just let him vent. Stuff he can't say at work; if he did he'd get fired.
> 
> And it's the same stuff over and over and over and over again.
> 
> And he claims it makes him feel better to just say it all to me and have me listen.
> 
> I sure wish I could "fix" it for him


Yup exactly!

At some point in our lives, hopefully sooner than later, we reconcile ourselves with an undeniable truth of life the universe and everything, which is that 

_There are just some things that we cannot “fix.” No matter how much duct tape we may have.​_
And I say “hopefully sooner than later” because once you get past that . . . that’s when the real magic in a marriage begins.


----------



## Thundarr

We've all heard the phrase that we teach people how to treat us. Usually if I say it, I'm talking about respect and boundaries and that kind of thing. I believe it.

But this rule of life applies to other things too. When I'm really stressed and bottling it up, my wife can tell. Something as simple as a forehead kiss or a quick foot rub and that stress is gone. Some of us have elluded to the notion that how we react to these questions is contengent upon our relationship. It's 100% true because when my wife comes home with a wrinkled forehead and her eyes staring off into space then I know what to do because she's taught me by example. I'll grab some lotion and rub her feet. Or just do some little nice thing. Any little nice thing.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

intheory said:


> Anytime my husband; or anyone else for that matter wants to "fix" a problem I'm having; and make it go away --- have at it!
> 
> 
> I know that doesn't work for emotional venting. So let the person vent.
> 
> My H's work situation is such that he has a constant need to vent to me about it. For years, I tried to come up with solutions for him.
> 
> At one point I said, "Let's not tell each other about work, 'cause we can't fix workplace problems for each other."
> 
> He did not like this approach. Now that I stay at home, I consider it part of my job almost, to just let him vent. Stuff he can't say at work; if he did he'd get fired.
> 
> And it's the same stuff over and over and over and over again.
> 
> And he claims it makes him feel better to just say it all to me and have me listen.
> 
> I sure wish I could "fix" it for him


My H used to do that too until he started self assessing and watching his attitudes better.


----------



## Catherine602

Blossom Leigh said:


> I believe the man's response for some will be based on the quality of the woman talking. Ocotillo's post says that to me.
> 
> She's quality
> 
> He trusts her
> 
> Thus he listens and reasons and supports where necessary and gives her quality in return.


This is true. My husband's response to Anon list varies depending on the situation. Sometimes we are not so nice to each other. One of us gets snarky and we are both off to the races. At other times, we're cautious, and not forthcoming. Most of the time, he is compassionate and empathetic, in his own way. He is does not show a wide range of emotions so sometimes, I can't tell. I feel good most of the time, I feel he has my back no matter what. Sometimes in a prickly way but I'm resilient.


----------



## John Lee

Anon Pink said:


> Men, I need your help with this. Thank you in advance!
> 
> Please be specific. Here are some examples
> 
> 1. Wife had an argument with someone. She is telling you about it and you can see that she is upset. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 2. Wife screwed something up... Dinner, a project she was working on... Something that has no effect on you but has upset her; it's her fault and she knows it. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 3. Wife isn't feeling well. Horrific period, the flu, medical procedure...whatever. You respond by saying and doing what?
> 
> 4. Something got screwed up, not your wife's fault, and it is affecting her and she is upset. Your respond by saying and doing what?


The answers to #'s 1 and 4 depend on whether it's the first, third, or twentieth time it's happened that week. The answer to #2 depends on how many times that week I have been criticized or nitpicked for minor mistakes.


----------



## BookOfJob

Anon Pink said:


> And here you indicate that choosing quality behavior begets quality behavior. Which means your husband's emotional affair had something to do with your lack of quality behavior.


There is something in math that describes your fallacy. A statement:
A => B (A therefore B)
is not the same with
A <=> B (A is equal to B)

the truth tables for the two statements above are completely different. You are trying to convince people that the two statements are the same. In engineering, we call it, "a slippery slope".


----------

