# Where Was She?



## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

Not quite sure where to start. We have been married nearly 2 decades, and with children in home. We have never had, what some would call, a stable relationship. In the beginning, we had really high-highs, and really low-lows. It was either amazing or torturous. Over the years, the painful words have increased, and the lows are still lows. The problem is the highs have disappeared. During times of disagreement, she always seems to find the need to say the most hateful things. My self-esteem had dropped at one point, okay, I lost all self-esteem. Since then, I have gotten stronger, and the words don’t hurt as much anymore, but I don’t really feel much of anything. It is almost as if someone shot me up with emotional Novocain. I feel I have stayed to this point, only because it is easier than leaving. Yes, I know this is not good either.
Well, there is now a new circumstance in the picture. I have rarely been jealous, and have no reason to believe that there were any past indiscretions. Last week all that changed. I had a business meeting (legitimately) that took place just after work hours. It let out a bit early, and I headed home. She sends a text message with some convoluted story about leaving something at her office, locking her keys in, having someone from there drive her home to pick up the spare, and go back to get her car. I get home and our kids are at home. This is red flag number one: she never goes anywhere alone. If I’m not with her, she always takes one of the kids, especially at night. Red flag number two: even if I was not able to break away from the meeting, she still would have texted me WHEN it happened, and not after she got a ride from some guy in the office that she cant remember his name (apparently he was new). I got a real sick feeling in my gut, so I did something that I hated to do but felt it was necessary. I pulled up the mobile locater that is associated with her phone. She CLEARLY was not at home, the office, or any place remotely in between. Placed several calls, no answer, finally she calls back and says that she is nearly home. Locator says that she was in the same spot she had been for the previous ½ hour. then watched the locator as she drove home. I questioned her about where she really was, and she stuck with her story and proceeded to turn it around on me. Telling me that I was the one that couldn’t be trusted and didn’t know why I was giving her the third degree.
Out of town family arrived the next day, which added much difficulty in trying to handle this situation. We had a big blow up, and I told her that I would play nice for a week, but once family left, I would leave also. She still said that she was on the road between office and home, but did admit to having issues constantly berating me, and being spiteful to me constantly, along with a major lack in passion and compassion. She wanted me to stay, and she would work on it. Well that only lasted a couple of days and then back to normal. Either way, I have asked her on several different occasions where she was, not telling her how I knew (yet 2 days after d-day, the password changed to her phone and the location service was shut off). I feel that she knows that I know, yet she still will not admit that she lied. I decided that I was going to try to let it sit until family leaves. If she continues to lie, then I will tell her I know different and show her how I know different then leave for good. Not that it would be the only reason, but it would be enough to where i finally take action. If she finally tells me the truth, not sure what I’ll do. I just want her to admit the truth. It is just burning inside me, it consumes my thoughts 24x7. I cant even be productive while at work. I feel as if holding out a bit longer, and not making a big scene with family in (1 more week), is the right thing to do, but thought I may put it out to others opinions.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You were right to be suspicious, sad to say.

This is the first time? Or the first time she got careless?


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Keep gathering your evidence.
Don't expose it just yet.

In fact, I wouldn't bring it up again.
Just pretend to blow it off.... a "my bad, no big deal" kind of thing.

Then wait in the weeds like a ninja.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

Not real sure. first time she was careless, but dont believe that anything has happened historically. She is very convincing, so thereis always a possibility. It just wouldnt suprise me at this point. She is very disconnected with me 90% of the time.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

SolitaryConfinement said:


> Not real sure. first time she was careless, but dont believe that anything has happened historically. She is very convincing, so thereis always a possibility. It just wouldnt suprise me at this point. She is very disconnected with me 90% of the time.


Don't "eff" around. This is your life.
Follow the instructions you get here and protect yourself asap.
With what? you ask... knowledge.

I'm hoping the best for you... but you're here for a reason.

My wife was CONNECTED with me 90% of the time and
she still found time to bang the OM twice a week during her lunch breaks. 
We had a happy marriage w 2 gorgeous young ones.

*Poof* gone.

Don't sit back and let it happen to you.

Start now.

I implore you... do not underestimate a cheater.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What phone? Does she use the home computer?


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

iPhone 

She does have and uses a laptop at home, but it's rare. Most of her Internet browsing and interaction is done through her iPad


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Way to retrieve deleted text messages from iphone - Truth About Deception

Install a keylogger on the computer just incase she does use it.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

She sounds like an abusive a-hole. The cheating is your get out of jail free card. People understand lesving a cheater vs an emotionally abusive woman(which she is).
But, you will need more proof to bolster your justification for leaving this abuser.
So, lay low, and act dumb, as others have suggested. Gather irrefutable proof, such that when she denies to others (like your kids), you can refute.
Be patient and a good actor. Best way to get fast results is using a PI, if you have the resources.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

she is at times very difficult to absorb. I am not proud, but there have been 3 occassions where I have allowed her to push me to limits I should not go to. I have never hit her, but have been physically aggressive on these occassions. that is not who i am. I feel as if the decsion has been made. I am tired of the guilt she tries to put upon me for not being what she wants, i am tired of trying to please someone that I cannot please. During the initial fear of losing me she will deny this, but she does not want to be with me. she has a very difficult time just being close to me or looking at me. I am really sure that I'm done. BigLiam, you are correct in this MIA situation being the keys to the door. it is what has pushed me to be able to go thru with it. otherwise I would just be "giving up" on my family, leaving a beautiful wife and two kids with bills that she cannot afford, etc. etc. etc..... I think that my real question initially is regarding her having family in town. Things are very strange between us at home, and I know that it can be sensed, but I just dont feel right leaving while family is here.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Can you check her during her lunch breaks?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

**** her. Why do you care? Let her find someone else. Let her free you from this mess. Let her make HIS life miserable, not yours. Golden opportunity to get rid of her.

180. Let her go. Better yourself for you and your kids. I am SO happy i don't give a crap anymore. Not caring is the best gift I EVER gave myself.

And remember THIS when you "catch" her with all of this evidence you will gather over the next few months. I wish I could go back and find that thread where a guy caught a naked man climbing off of his naked wife and she STILL DENIED anything was going on. And he was QUESTIONING HIMSELF for accusing her.

Keylogger? VAR? GPS? Amateur hour for a true blame shifter. Want an education in "that's my story and I'm sticking to it"? Gather all of your evidence and present it to her. You already got a taste of it. How did that go?

Emotionally leave this marriage and better yourself or make yourself miserable collecting your evidence. Your choice.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

And I wrote the above before reading your last post. Why do you care again?


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

MrK said:


> And I wrote the above before reading your last post. Why do you care again?


I do agree with Mr K. I spent the first two days goin thru cell usage, watching her every move and it Only made me more crazy. Lost time at work constantly checking up. That's when I realized I had no choice but to get out. 
K, why do I care about her, or leaving while family is in? The answer to both is the same. I don't know, but i do. I will always have love for this woman, I have just finally realized that neither of us are going to be happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

VAR. I would get two in there. Also a GPS in the car. make sure you are careful in placement, they can be found but there are great places to hide them.

Don't threaten to leave and don't leave if you find she is cheating, stay in your house.

Back off on her.

The red flags are there for sure.

The hardest part is where you are at right now. In most cases you will crack and tell her your suspicions. Don't. As hard as it is try to get a grip on your emotions.

Go to the doctor, seriously make an appointment asap. This will give you some cover, say to your wife that you don't feel right and are getting tested for a host of things. You might be able to use this to cover up your anxiety and racing thoughts. 

Don't spill your guts on what you suspect and don't know to your wife.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

How do you "shut down" the Find My iPhone capability in an iPhone?

The only way I know of is to actually shut the phone down
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

So you went through cell usage, and nothing stood out? No frequent texts? If you want to know what is going on, you need to put a voice-activated recorder (VAR) in her car. If you are in a state where fault matters for divorce settlement purposes, the information gleaned may be handy. Also, if you are playing nice while family is in town, use the time to plan - how you are going to separate bank accounts, close joint credit cards, etc. Doing these things soon after family leaves and before confronting her will show her you mean business.

While you have time and are playing nice, focus on detatching emotionally so that you can have a conversation with her without the guilt, without blowing up, without changing your tune. 

When you have the chance, you can tell her that you do not know where she was, but you know where she wasn't. Tell her that her lying is the cherry on top of a sh*tty marriage sundae. You are curious where she was, but are otherwise indifferent because you are leaving (the marriage, not the house or the kids). Be careful not to acuse without proof, it always backfires. Only work with what you know for certain.

Good luck!


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Check her credit card use and one thing that opened for me is my wife used her hotel reward cards to book the rooms they used. They paid by cash when they checked in. But I was able to get histories from the reward cards.

The VAR is they way to go along with the GPS. Put the GPS in the trunk under the spare. Last place she would look for that. 

Is her laptop password protected from you? I would add a key logger and look for a pay by the use phone.

I would listen to what your gut is telling you. That was my first tip off that there was something wrong.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

tacoma said:


> How do you "shut down" the Find My iPhone capability in an iPhone?
> 
> The only way I know of is to actually shut the phone down
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's really easy actually. Just go to settings then turn off location settings. It takes like 2 seconds.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

SolitaryConfinement said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, there was plenty that stood out, and bcuz of the mobile locator on her phone I DO know where she was, just cannot prove with who or why. Where she was, along with the calls prior and the texts after gives me strong suspicion of who. I my who is correct, it would not only affect me, but others close to us as well. I pray with all that I am, that my "who" is wrong. This doesn't change the issue of lying about where she was. 

The detaching was easier last week when I was at my highest level of anger. Now it is harder. I see her in the evenings and just want her and want to be with her for life. This is my heart speaking. My head tells me that I want the idea of her, and she has no Intention of giving me what I need. Most of the time I just feel alone and numb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

You head is right SC. Its the idea of what you wish she was. Listen to your heart in this situation and you'll be in hell the rest of your life.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MrsOldNews said:


> It's really easy actually. Just go to settings then turn off location settings. It takes like 2 seconds.


Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

So did you get the backup off her phone?

Will you try to prove adultery to help your case in divorce or do you want to sweep it under the rug and forget about it?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

if you have att you can look up phone records. Just go to view records and you can see the numbers that she called and that called her. You can see call times too. This is how i found out about a guy that was pursuing my wife. At least it will get you a number. Then you can find out who it it by texting the number and doing a little social engineering. Say something along the lines of "my phone died and I am trying to put names with all my contacts again. Who is this?" He or she may or may not give you a name. IF he asks who you are say you are from a business associated with your wife's work. If he acts like he is catching on simply say oh I am sorry this is a wrong number. I found the card sorry to bother you have a nice day. 

This will most likely get you a name and maybe even a buisness. Just don't under any circumstances mention your wife's name in any way shape or form. 
Then look him up at your wife's work. If it is someone she should know then talk to your wife.

Ask your wife about the guy. Just simple questions "like hey a guy from my work says he knows someone at your work. Have you ever heard of the guy." If she says she doesn't know him and should then you know something is up. and now you have something to focus on.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Yes. Listen to all of these other people, not me. Drive yourself insane with the spying. After that, cheating or not, you will be certifiably insane after all of this.

Anyone ever see that gene Hackman movie where he's a spy and goes nuts thinking people are after him?

Watch it. Then take my advice. Just detach and let her go.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

MrK said:


> Yes. Listen to all of these other people, not me. Drive yourself insane with the spying. After that, cheating or not, you will be certifiably insane after all of this.


He hasn't answered whether infidelity makes a difference divorcing in his state or not. So what advice are we to offer him?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Fvstringpicker said:


> You head is right SC. Its the idea of what you wish she was. Listen to your heart in this situation and you'll be in hell the rest of your life.


:iagree:

The heart is like a spoiled 4 year old, temper tantrum throwing brat and the head its rational, reality based, plan of action, thinking parent.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

Morituri - Point taken...

Keko, I do not believe that infidelity makes a difference. State has no alimony. it does have child support, but that is based on number of childeren and income, not reason for divorce. I have NO problem supporting my childeren. I assume that she will have custody. If given the option, i would take it in a heart beat. She has not been the ideal wife, but i beleive that she has always been a great mother. I dont believe that any evidence i find would make a difference in a court situation. It would only make a difference between she and i.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

SC, don't go crazy with the snooping. Just enough to prove or disregard an affair but focus more on the legal side on how to get equal parenting time over your kids.

Have you looked at the link I posted earlier? Try that on the computer she plugs in her phone to and you'll be able to get her text messages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Consider starting the implementation of *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559* and *The 180 degree rules*


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)




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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

keko said:


> SC, don't go crazy with the snooping. Just enough to prove or disregard an affair but focus more on the legal side on how to get equal parenting time over your kids.
> 
> Have you looked at the link I posted earlier? Try that on the computer she plugs in her phone to and you'll be able to get her text messages.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keko - she doesnt sync her phone to a pc. with the new iphone, you dont need to sync for updates and such. she has always depended on me to add music and such, which hasnt been done in a while. I did check phone and text records, and yes ATT is great, but here are the issues with that, and where I totally agree with Mr. K about the GPS, and constant follow up:
1. once i did see a pattern in phone calls and text messages, i started logging in to the account constantly to see if there was any "new" communication - It was making me insane, just crazy... I did stop because it was tearing me apart, and having absolutly no affect on her.
2. I think she realized how i knew she wasnt where she said she was, because 2 days later the location services turned off her phone, along with the 3rd day, changing the pw for her iphone, itunes account, and a couple other items - that being said, she can download a texting app to her phone, and text whomever, whenever, and it will only show as data transfer, no number associated - and she knows that. Probably has already done that.

I do appreciate all the support, i do appreciate all the advice. I think that I have the direction that I wanted. Whatever i decide to do, it will be after family leaves. Not for her sake, but for theirs. I dont think it fair or necessary to wrap them up in our drama and issues. They know there is stress, but I dont think the levity of the situation is realized. Once they leave, I am going to ask her, giving one opportunity to come clean. If she comes clean, and sounds as if there is regret, and wants to truly make some changes, i would consider it. If she comes clean, and is not truly apologetic, OR if she continues to lie, i will insist on a seperation, leading to divorce. That is my plan at this time anyway. I hope I have the strength when the time comes.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

When you get a chance have a look at this article. It will seem a bit drastic at first but the reality is men almost always lose if they go into court without preparing. 

Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum • View topic - THE LIST (Print It)


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

SolitaryConfinement said:


> I do not believe that infidelity makes a difference. State has no alimony. it does have child support, but that is based on number of childeren and income, not reason for divorce. I have NO problem supporting my childeren. I assume that she will have custody. If given the option, i would take it in a heart beat. She has not been the ideal wife, but i beleive that she has always been a great mother.


You are in a difficult situation, the move to divorce is a tough one for anybody. If you should decide to pursue this route, make sure to have your business in order BEFORE you tell her that you wish to divorce. I get the impression that she would use any method possible screw you over.

First and foremost, do NOT tell her anything at this point. Don't confront her, don't acuse her, basically don't interact with other than normal dealings. Do not let her know that you are considering a divorce.

Note what I underlined above. Most states have moved to a no-fault divorce and several actually realize that equal time with BOTH parents is best for the children. You are important to your children, you are the only Dad that they have. Be there for them and don't "assume" anything. Your wife sounds like a complete b!tch, I cannot image she is magically better to your children.

Here is something I cut from another forum that is lengthy, but is worth the read if you choose to divorce. Great guidance on how to prepare for and execute a separation from your wife. Be pro-active and prepared (Basically what Keko linked to)


WHY ARE YOU HERE?? This is not a silly question. You are about to learn a whole new meaning of the term,"rebuttable presumption," and why it applies exclusively to you in Family Court. 

Trust me, you're in for the fight of your life. If you're not prepared, you can bet the other side will rebut you right out of fatherhood and into poverty. Your children, with your current and future finances, will be out of your life forevermore. 

Your goal therefore, demands a strong offense. This requires dedication, support, "pro-active" planning, and lots of research. In other words, PREPARATION IS EVERYTHING!! 

The following list is neither conclusive nor is it exhaustive. For that matter, not all of it will apply to you. Nevertheless, its intent is to get you to think, ask hard questions, and above all, to be prepared. Copy it. Print it. NEVER let your STBX see it. 

What ever you do, NEVER LEAVE YOUR MARITAL RESIDENCE unless ordered by the court!! If you do, your STBX is free to do unto you as you are about to do unto her. It'll be a mistake that'll cost you dearly. 

If you're not THOROUGHLY prepared, the other side will find your weakness and work you over. Their primary purpose is to "soften you up" and get you to give up custody WILLINGLY!! "THEY HAVE METHODS!!" They'll even recruit your attorney and get you to sign documents you'll later regret. If you're not prepared, and if you fail to choose your attorney wisely, there'll be nothing left of you when they're done. 

If your STBX files first, she's already plotted her next 10 moves against you. This is not where you want to be. If she files first, you can expect: 

1) a restraining order that evicts you from your house and prevents you from contacting your kids. 

2) to pay temporary child support, temporary alimony, community debt, and/or bills accumulated by your STBX during these proceedings. This can be 1 to 3 years. You'll be bankrupt well before trial. 

3) to pay court costs and other fees, in addition to expenses mentioned above: GAL; Custody/Child Evaluator; Psychological evaluation; Your STBX's attorney fees. 

EXPECT HER TO LIE. EXPECT THEM TO BELIEVE HER. EXPECT NO FAIRNESS. EXPECT TO NEED MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE TO PROVE YOUR CASE. 

Their goal is to "bleed you dry" and beat you into submission. You'll never see the last of their dirty tricks. It behooves you therefore to be very prepared very early. 

NEVER BE IN A POSITION WHERE YOU HAVE TO PLAY "CATCH-UP." 

If you've got "skeletons" in your closet, prepare accordingly, ahead of time. Do likewise with your STBX's skeletons. Gather all incriminating info while you can. Never give her the opportunity to cover her tracks. 

For starters, develop an EARLY GAME PLAN to win custody. Execute your play according to YOUR timetable. Pick your shots. Make them count. Timing is everything. Keep the other side off balance. This is very important. 

Lay out a trap-line for your STBX. Perpetually work on setting her up for the fall. You know her weakness. Bait her!! Give her every opportunity to make a mistake. Spring your trap in front of the camera and in front of witnesses. Document everything. 

Everything must be documented in a WELL-WORDED journal. What you write must be factual and correct. At trial, your journal will be a valuable source of events, dates, and patterns of behavior. Your journal should also contain surprises to keep the other side off balance. Most 
importantly, your journal will discredit fabricated testimony and lies you can expect from the other side. 

Along with your journal, gather supporting evidence with photos and videos. Put a trace program on the computer and a recorder on the phone. Don't be afraid to record phone calls. Make it your business to know where your STBX goes in cyber-space. Above all get witnesses, especially professionals involved with your STBX & kids. You may want to hire a PI. A visit to your local spy shop will be very worth while. Think of it as an investment. 

Your journal, together with supporting evidence, will help you. More correctly, they will help your attorney. Remember, your attorney is only as effective as the information you give him. If he gets little from you, you can expect little in return. 

Type and/or otherwise arrange journal notes well in advance of trial. Reserve plenty of time to review your journal with your attorney. You must bond with your attorney, and he must bond with you. Both of you must be "reading from the same page" between now and trial. Be sure save your original journal draft. You may need it. 

YOUR JOURNAL IS THE TEMPLATE OF YOUR CASE!! Guard it carefully. It contains secrets the other side would love to have. Above all, BEWARE of so-called "neutral third parties," like the GAL or Custody Evaluator. These thugs are anything but neutral. They will specifically target their report and/or testimony to discredit everything you've written. To guard against subpoena, address each page to your attorney. Remember, the primary purpose of your journal is to rebut and/or otherwise discredit the lies and fabricated testimony that'll come from the other side. THIS IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE!! 

Never sign anything the custody evaluator asks you to sign - even if it's a scrap of paper that states you agree to XYZ conditions. This is a trap. Anything you sign becomes a bona-fide legal document that will be used against you in court. 

PLOTTING DATA (patterns of behavior) from your journal: 

It's very important to have supporting evidence to back up your documentation. Photos and witnesses are ideal. However, you can't always count on people, nor can you count on having a camera when you need one. Therefore, you must build your case with what you have. YOUR JOURNAL!! 

If done properly and consistantly, your journal becomes the heart and soul of your case. It is filled with important data. This data shows your STBX's pattern of behavior over time. In other words, you can scientifically predict how your STBX will behave based upon the data you've collected. Remember, when plotting scientific data of any nature, you can expect surprises. Remember, surprises are what keeps the other side off balance. 

Data from your journal can be plotted on a graph, a pie chart, or bar chart. For comparison, it's a good idea to use all of the above. You'll need Excel software. 

Plotted data are much easier to intrepret, both for the judge and your attorney. Plotted data show large blocks of evidence at a glance; ie, parenting history/behavior. This helps rebut the built-in bias of the system, and scientifically supports your bid for custody. 

Keep in mind, a single "judgement error" will NEVER get the judge's attention. However, a "PATTERN" of well-documented judgement errors, supported by evidence, will make a difference. 

Remember, neither the judge nor your attorney want to sift through endless streams of relatively "meaningless" journal data. Consider your audience. It's up to you to make things as easy as possible for them both. 

SET YOURSELF UP TO WIN!! Pay attention to detail. Follow through on leads. Don't get side-tracked!! Use only what works for you. 

BECOME A "CHILD ADVOCATE." 

1) Get involved with a network of parent educators. 

2) Make time for play dates and/or parties. Invite parent-chaperones who will observe you as a Superdad in fine form. Make sure mothers are invited. Ideally, they should be solidly married, above reproach, and will not be disparaged for having an affair with you. 

These are great sources for collateral witnesses. 

2) Enroll yourself and/or your kids in classes/counseling/treatment as necessary: Parenting classes; Co-parenting classes; Anger managment; Couseling for kids caught-in-the-middle; enroll in a Children's First program; Alcohol/drug treatment. Read contemporary books and literature 
on the above subject matter. Take the initiative. Become informed. Do whatever it takes. Don't wait 'til it's too late. 

3) The most important witnesses are court-appointed professionals, so-called "neutral third parties." They include; the home study evaluator, the forensic evaluator, the custody evaluator, the psychologist, the play therapist, and the GAL. Tread lightly with these people. They are 
anything but neutral. These thugs are "GOD" in determining custody decisions. Keep in mind, the judge is gonna rule whatever they recommend. They live by one fundamental principle, "Dads be damned." 

Whatever you do, NEVER agree to any form of binding mediation. You'll be giving up all your rights to further litigation. You'd just as well sell your soul to the Devil. 

From the beginning, you must "attempt" get these witnesses on your side. They are the "tie-breaker." Truth be known, it's their job to insure the race isn't even close, much less a "tie." Nevertheless, do your best. Be sure to document everything. 

a) It's their job to not like you. 
b) It's their job to fabricate lies about you. 
c) It's their job to soften you up and trick you into giving up custody before trial. 

Remember "rebuttable presumption?" Some state's statutes declare both fathers and mothers have an equal right to parent their children. In this phase, that right is summarily taken from you. In other words, the game is rigged. It should come as no surprise, gender discrimination is rife within the Judicial Branch of Government. 

With that in mind, you might consider hiring a private custody evaluator. The idea is to bring conflicting opinion/testimony with you to court. This is one sure way to minimize a GAL's highly biased testimony/report. 

Additionally, make sure to get documentation/history of any violence, both physical and/or verbal/psychological. Is your STBX any threat to herself, to you, to your kids, or to anyone else? Evidence of this nature is critical to rebut an already biased GAL report/testimony. 

I've heard of ONE (1) favorable recommend from a GAL. This dad was a school teacher. He was thoroughly professional and very well connected. Additionally he graduated with "honors" from parenting classes and had become a state-certified foster parent. In other words, he had credentials the rest of us don't have or can't get. The GAL liked this dad because he was "one of them." 

In family court, the average "Joe Six-Pack" has a 90% chance of losing. That's why your journal and witness list are of the utmost importance. 

Here's another example. Risky? Hell yes! But the results are what counts. 

Both Parties agreed, together with the judge, to allow the final custody decision to be handled by a custody evaluator. Dad's attorney was familiar with this evaluator and requested that she hear testimony. Stbx's attorney also agreed with the request. 

The evaluator met with both attorneys prior to taking testimony. She strongly advised that the Parties settle ahead of time. (Note: This is why you never agree to binding mediation.) 

At this critical moment, Dad's attorney revealed the existence of a detailed journal together with a substantial body of evidence. He suggested the Parties walk away with dignity and share custodybetween them. As a result, Dad's STBX agreed to sharing both physical and legal custody without the evaluator deciding for them. 

Dad's guess is that his attorney had spooked his STBX in prior courtroom encounters. She gave up without a fight, certainly not because she wanted to. Of that, Dad is sure. 

The lesson here is that Dad's attorney had taken the initiative to thoroughly study the journal well in advance. As a result, Dad's attorney was convinced that the journal would tip the balance in an occasion such as this. 

Thus: a detailed journal + a good attorney + strategy = Victory 

There was another dad that "bought" his STBX out. He got the house, the kids, and everything for $70K. Still another dad got out of paying alimony for a mere $11K. I realize this sounds like a lot all at once. But over time, it's a bargain. Remember, let your attorney handle the negotiating process. 

MOVING ON: Your WITNESS LIST must be exhaustive. Other than court-appointed professionals, people that see you with your children and/or otherwise know you personally are going to be your best witnesses. Remember, not everyone will support you, nor will they be available when you need them. 

Potential witnesses include: Extended family; neighbors; day care, school professionals; parent volunteers; medical professionals; adult activity leaders. 

"Cardinal Rule" No 1....... KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!! LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS!! 

This is war. You must approach this as a top-secret military operation. 

1) Thou shalt not raise any suspicions. DO NOT TELEGRAPH YOUR INTENTIONS. 
a) Thou shalt not tell anyone what you're up to, ESPECIALLY YOUR STBX. 
b) Thou shalt not share information with anyone about anything. 
c) Thou shalt take care of business like nothing's going on. 

2) Thou shalt not get side-tracked. This is "crunch time." Manage your time wisely. 

3) Thou shalt maintain thy Poker Face. Get prepared for the long hall. 

"Cardinal Rule" No 2....... NEVER LET YOUR GUARD DOWN!! WATCH YOUR BACK!! 

Have minimal contact with your STBX. NEVER be in a position where she can allege domestic violence of any kind. It's best not to be alone with her. Always have a witness with you. 

1) Be very careful when you are alone with your STBX. 
a) She can file false domestic violence charges "at will," and have you thrown in jail. 
b) She can get a restraining order "at will," and have you kicked out of your house. 

2) "Thou shalt ALWAYS bite the bullet." At the same, "Thou shalt ALWAYS be bulding thy case." 
a) Thou shalt not argue. Thou shalt not fight. Thou shalt not provoke thy STBX. 
b) Thou shalt go the extra mile to be civil. Thou shalt be Mr Nice Guy. 

3) Never engage in any form of business with your ex, no matter how much the deal "appears" to be in your favor. It will be a trap you'll regret 'til your dying day. Remember, there ain't no free lunch. You can always expect a pay-back down the road. 

"Cardinal Rule" No 3....... BE THE BEST DAD YOU CAN BE!! DO WHATEVER IT TAKES!! 

1) Get involved with your kids as much as possible. 
a) Assume the role of primary caretaker well in advance. 
b) This'll set you up for primary, if not 50/50 shared primary custody. This is your goal. Never lose sight of that!! 

2) Make everything you do in the best interest of your kids. Always go the extra mile. 

Give your STBX a day off every week. "That's OK, Honey. I'll take care of this. Why don't you go shopping?" Take advantage to document parenting time, and snoop around when she's not home. 

The following sites offer charts to document parenting time and other relavent issues. Use them to help plan what you need to do. 

Content - S.P.A.R.C. 
Parenting Time: Child Custody Calendar & Time Tracker 
Child Custody Coach - Child Custody, Child Custody Laws, Custody Evaluation Help for Parents 

"Cardinal Rule" No 4....... GET CONNECTED!! STAY INFORMED!! 

1) Familiarize yourself with Family Laws, Administrative Rules, and court procedures. 
a) You must understand the court process and how the family law system works. 
b) It is your responsibility to know anything and everything that applies to you. 
c) Mastery of your state's Family Code will confer advantage to you in the courtroom. 

As a father, you have rights. However, the goal of the judicial junta is to deny, and/or otherwise undermine those rights; ie, "rebuttable presumption." You've gotta be prepared. 

2) Read books on winning custody. Read only those that work for you. 

3) Get connected with a dads support group. This helps you stay focused. It's the most important thing you can do. 
a) With networking, your proactive effort becomes leveraged exponentially. 
b) Whether you gather or share, information is the a prequisite to constructive action. 
c) Hang out with winners. When things heat up, you'll need their support. 
d) AVOID losers and "nay-sayers." They'll drag you down. 

4) BEWARE of your limitations. Find out what works for you and what doesn't. 

You'll never survive if you do this alone. As discussed above, court-appointed professionals are not what they seem. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. They have no conscience. 

"Cardinal Rule" No 5....... HIRE THE BEST FATHER FRIENDLY ATTORNEY YOU CAN FIND. 

BEWARE OF WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING. BEWARE of attorneys who "claim" to know everything. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Remember, you want results, not a compromise. Take your time. Shop around. Ask hard questions. Make your choice carefully. 

Your attorney's specialty should be representing fathers in family court. HE MUST KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT. He should't expect a large retainer. He should tell you his win/loss record as well as your chances of winning. He should tell you his billing policy. He should be well-connected. He should know judges and court-appointed professionals; GAL's, custody evaluators, psychologists, etc. 

It's no secret. Attorneys are 99% of the problem. So...... 

1) Be prepared, well in advance, BEFORE you choose an attorney. Know what to expect. 
a) Above all, watch for "RED FLAGS." 

2) Your attorney works for you. You must know ahead of time what you want and stick to it. 
a) Never allow your attorney to dissuade you from your ultimate goal. 
b) Never display "eager-to-deal." 
c) Never allow your attorney to drag the process out unnecessarily. For starters, get a trial date set ASAP. Don't haggle over "little things." Stay focused. Keep the pressure on. 

Be prepared to tell your attorney everything, especially the truth. Be prepared to follow his advice. 

3) NEVER "assume" that your attorney will know everything. 
a) Most of your knowledge will come from your support network; ie, experienced fathers who have tenacity and know the ropes. 

4) Never expect your attorney to do "everything." 
a) Manage your case actively and personally. 

5) If your attorney advises you to take the "high road," find another one ASAP. 
a) THIS IS WAR!! If you're gonna lose, go down fighting dirty. 

6) Find a para-legal who's father friendly, one who's experienced with family law. 
a) As you know, some nurses know more than doctors. The same hold true for para-legals and attorneys. 
b) Find one you can count on. This is an important Plan B resource. 

7) Speaking of Plan B, ALWAYS have a back-up for everything. You never know when you'll need it. 
a) If you have doubts, NEVER think twice about getting a second opinion. 
b) For that matter, never think twice about getting a different attorney. 

8) As things progress, assess your chances of winning; best case versus worst case scenario. BE REALISTIC!! 
a) If you you have a "reasonable" chance of winning, then go for it, and go early. 
b) If you have "serious" doubts about winning, then settle early. Cut the best deal you can. 

9) NEVER expect fairness from your STBX, much less fairness from the Family Court system. 
a) Realistically, your chances of winning are 3 in 100. 
b) If your ex is a junkie, a < edited >, a 3-time convicted felon, or any combination of the above, she'll win custody 97% of the time. These numbers are realistic. 

This gives you some idea of what you're up against. Remember, you are at the mercy of Family Court thugs. The system is designed to degrade you and to bankrupt you. They'll force you spend your money any way they can. Like the "dog" that you are, they have tactics that bring 
you to "heel." THEY DON'T LIKE YOU!! 

"Cardinal Rule" No 6....... NEVER GIVE, OR SIGN ANYTHING TO YOUR STBX IN ADVANCE 

You know your STBX better than anyone. You know what's important to her. You also know her weakness. Between now and trial, you will find that your STBX is "her own favorite charity." Her greed will soon become evident. Learn to exploit that to your advantage. For now, find out 
what she wants. 

At this stage, your STBX's "wants" are potential bargaining chips that can be exchanged later for things of importance to you, like property division/alimony. 

Above all, never give her your children. They are not bargaining chips!! They are non-negotiable!! This is not open for discussion!! Stick to your guns!! 

1) NEVER give, nor agree to give, anything to your STBX unless: 
a) the judge orders it. 
b) you get something of significance in return. 
c) you get it in writing. 
d) you get it from your attorney. 

Remember at this stage, ANY converstion, agreement, or discussion MUST go through your attorney. No matter how much you hurt, never let your STBX back into your comfort zone. 

2) Keep a list of everything you give to your STBX. Use items on that list as bargaining chips later on. 

During the course of your marriage, giving freely to your wife was second nature. You never thought twice about it. Today however, she is something other than your "wife." Nevertheless, she still expects this "arrangement" of giving to continue. Worse yet, court professionals 
think this way too. You've gotta be careful. 

For example, if you give her "this" today, tomorrow she'll ask for "that." She'll nickle and dime you for every "little thing," one piece at a time. It'll never end. Before you know it, she'll have all your "bargaining chips" and you'll have nothing. BEWARE of this trap. You need to terminate this practice immediately. There's a time for property division. That time isn't 
now. NEVER GIVE YOUR STBX ANYTHING!! Stick to your guns. 

Remember, bargaining chips are very important. Individually, they may seem insignificant. Collectively however, and when "cashed in" at the right time, they WILL make a difference. If a bargaining chip has value for her, then it CERTAINLY has "value" for you. Never forget that. 

Nevertheless, "IF" you must give her anything, make her sign a receipt for it. Think if it as an "advance" in property settlement. Be sure to list the item's "replacement cost." That receipt is now a bona-fide "document." Use it later as a bargaining chip when you divide community property. When the time is right, you can make her pay dearly for all those "little 
things" she took in advance. 

"Cardinal Rule" No 7....... YOU FILE FIRST!! This is of the utmost importance. 

For starters, you are forever the plaintiff and she's the defendant. That's a good thing. You get the opening shot. You design the playing field. You've got the momentum. 

1) The secret is: 
a) do not relent. 
b) Maintain the upper hand. 
c) Set the rules of the game. 

Remember, there's no guarantee that you'll prevail on every issue. But it's much better than starting the game on her terms. 

2) A good lawyer is essential. 

3) It's extremely important to you know want and that you are in a position to direct the outcome. 

HOWEVER, file ONLY when you've got a solid game plan, and ONLY when you're ready. In other words, you pick the fight, when and where, on your terms. You want "home court advantage." 

Surprise is everything. If you catch her off-guard, your STBX will be playing "catch-up" 'til trial, and beyond. THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA!! If you're thoroughly prepared, and follow-through on details, she'll never catch up. 

Remember, if you get temporary custody at this stage, and if you've done your homework, and if everything goes according to plan, your chances for permanent custody are virtually assured. All this of course, depends on your attorney, your journal, the thoroughness of your strategy/game plan, and your commitment to active case management. Meanwhile..... 

Get complete information on your STBX and children: Full names, aliases, maiden and nick names, other names used; dates and places of birth/death; Social Security numbers; Driver's License numbers; etc. 

Get every document you can think of. Leave no stone unturned. Some documents will be difficult, if not impossible to get. If/when you get stuck, move on. Do your research well in advance, BEFORE you separate. If you are thorough, you'll reap huge dividends at trial. 

Store ALL documents in a safe deposit box in your name only. These include: 

1) Tax returns for the last several years. 
2) Marriage license; pre-nuptial agreement. 
3) Documents from your STBX's previous marriage/divorce. 
4) Birth/death certificates. 
5) Passports, green cards, immigration documents. 
6) DMV record(s); criminal history. 
7) Thorough background check on your STBX. Hire a PI if necessary. 
School records; college/high school diploma(s); transcript(s). 
9) Medical and life insurance policies; will(s). 
10) Deeds; titles; leases; contracts. 
11) Bank statements; stocks, bonds and securities. 
12) Retirement, pension, IRA, 401K, Keogh. 
13) Credit report. 
14) Family photos; heirlooms. 
15) STASH YOUR CASH!! 

Make sure you have passwords/access codes to ALL computers, bank accounts, credit cards, etc. Try them out. Make sure they work. Reset computer passwords with new software. 

Get the following for your children: 

1) Recent photos of your children, in clothes they typically wear. 
2) Documentation of their physical descriptions. 
3) Social Security, Student Body, and State ID cards. 
4) Medical history, related info, and documents. 
5) Immunization records. 
6) Health history and/or special needs. 
7) History of behavioral issues. 
History of prescription medication. 

CONTACT INFO for STBX and children: friends; extended family; service providers, doctors; school, counselors, day care; etc. If your STBX runs off with your kids, you'll need to track them down. 

STBX's previous marriage and children: 

1) Is she getting alimony and/or child support? How much? Paid by who? 
a) Can she get alimony re-instated from her previous ex? 

2) What was the value of her property settlement? What did she bring into your marriage? 

3) Were any of her past debts serviced during the course of your marriage? 

Remember, issues like these can, and do make a difference in property settlement. More importantly, this info might show "bad faith" or "intent." In other words, is your STBX is using marriage as a means of embezzlement or early retirement? Are you her next target? 

STBX's school & job info: 

1) Level of education/continuing education. 

2) Current level and duration of employment/unemployment/underemployment/non-employment status. 
a) Salary history and benefits package. 
b) Career path. 
c) Job skills. 
d) Anticipated raises and/or promotions. 
e) Anticipated career/job change. 

3) Document willingness, or lack thereof, to become employed, better employed, or otherwise permanently self-sustaining. 
a) You want to minimize potential alimony and child support as much as possible. 

INVENTORY: 

Take inventory of everything you own. List the difference between "cash value" and "replacement cost." There is a difference!! Back-up your written inventory with videos, pictures, and appraisals. Store everything in a safe place. 

COMMUNITY ASSETS: Are they greater than you think? Where did it all go? 

Before, or during your marriage, did your STBX set up any form of "asset protection" where she is named beneificiary? Remember, assets could be in her name or under an alias. Perhaps a friend, a relative, a bank, or an attorney has assets "buried" for your STBX under an alias, or within a corporation? These are all good places to hide marital assets: 

1) Real estate. 
2) Stocks, bonds. 
3) LLC's, corporations, trusts. 
4) Businesses; ventures. partnerships. 
5) Off-shore holdings; bank accounts; investments. 

WASTING MONEY: 

During the course of your marriage, did your STBX, or did your STBX force/insist that you: 

1) Give/< edited > away monies, assets, or property of any kind? 
2) Did she waste money on herself? eg: college, clothes, jewelery, or cosmetic surgury? 
3) Did she spend money on an outside relationship? 
4) Did she waste money on a home business? 
5) Did she forge your signature on any checks or documents? 
6) Did she waste money on failed drug/alcohol treatment? 

Remember, issues like these make a difference in property settlement. 

ASSETS: 

Make a thorough list of assets, equity, debt, monthly income, and expenses. List everything, including names that appear on each document. Don't forget student loans and day care. Your list must include: current values; dates of acquisition and purchase price; payment and income history (paid by/earned by who?). Your list must be exhaustive!! 

Note: Any debt acquired during your marriage is a community debt. A student loan however, is more complicated. In essence, you are taking an "asset" with you and leaving a debt behind. If you anticipate paying child support and/or alimony, you could argue the increased income is a 
direct result of this asset. It is therefore simultaneously captured thru the debt, ie; your greater income potential would not be possible without the accompanying debt. Obviously, the other side will argue for higher support and leave you with your mountain of student loan debt 
at the same time. In other words, they want it both ways. Chances are,the judge will agree. 

Real estate: Purchase price; equity; down payment; mortgage balance; monthly payment; maintenance; improvements; etc. Get your house appraised. Apply for refinancing. The numbers won't be equal. Such differences can be significant in property settlement. 

Also include: Vehicles; boats; RV's; condo time shares; business/partnership interests/equity; credit cards; stocks & bonds; bank and investment accounts; jewelry and other items of value; etc. 

Don't forget: Debts; gifts; inheritance; any type of "windfall;" lottery winnings; etc. 

Meanwhile, STAY FOCUSED FROM THE BEGINNING. 

1) DIG IN AND FIGHT DIRTY. THIS IS WAR!! THERE ARE NO RULES!! 
a) If you take the "high road," you will lose. 
b) If you compromise, you will lose. 

2) Once you file, keep the heat on. NEVER let up on your STBX. 
a) It's up to you to maintain momentum and keep pressure on your STBX "CONTINUALLY." Your attorney can't possibly do this for you. This is your fight, and yours alone. 

3) Filing first sets the tone for the entire process. 
a) The chances of winning or losing depends "SIGNIFICANTLY" upon who files first. 
b) Filing first gives you distinct advantage. You control the high ground. 
c) NEVER compromise your position nor your advantage. 

4) As D-Day approaches: 
a) Entice your STBX to voluntarily leave, WITHOUT THE KIDS. Bribe her if necessary. 
b) While she's gone, clean out the house, take the kids, and file your court documents. 

5) The moment D-Day arrives, you become "THE TERMINATOR." 
a) You instantly change from Dr Jeckyl to Mr Hyde. No more Mr Nice Guy. 
b) NEVER show mercy. Take no prisoners. 
c) This is war!! NEVER LOOK BACK!! 

6) File your family court documents with the court clerk. Be sure the clerk date-stamps your documents. Then: 

7) Go immediately to ex parte. 
a) Get a temporary restraining order against your STBX. 
b) Get temporary orders for "exclusive occupancy" of your house. That means your STBX gets gets evicted from your marital residence. 
c) Get orders granting you temporary sole custody of your kids. Say she is unfit and a risk to the kids due to ___________ (you think of something). 
d) Get temporary orders for supervised visitation. 
e) Get orders for temporary child support and temporary alimony. 

8) Give copies of your restraining order to the school, daycare, your employer, etc. 
a) Notify anyone involved with your kids that you have a restraining order against your STBX. 

9) Change all locks and alarm codes on your house and car. 
a) Change passwords on everything, especially on bank and credit/debit cards. Deny your STBX access to any form of money. 

10) Get a vicious dog that barks at your STBX. 
a) That'll keep her from snooping around when you're not home. 
b) Reward him to reinforce that behavior. 

11) Get a new, unpublished phone number. Route all mail to a new PO Box. 

12) Have your STBX's mail stopped. 
a) Return her unopened mail to sender. 

13) Remove your STBX's name from your health, life, vision, and life insurance policies. 

14) Remove your STBX's name as beneficary from your retirement accounts. 
a) Remove your STBX's name as beneficary from your will. 

15) Inform companies with whom you do business that you want new passwords on your accounts; insurance, bank, etc. Instruct them that passwords must be used before releasing information or changing anything. 

16) REMOVE ALL cash from joint accounts. 
a) Close all joint credit card accounts. 
b) If any accounts are in your name, but where she is authorized, cancel her. 

17) Remove your name from the title and insurance for any car your STBX drives. 
a) Remove her name from the title and insurance for any car you drive. 
b) NEVER ALLOW your STBX to drive any car that is in your name. 
c) NEVER be responsible for your STBX's driving behavior. From now on, she's a liability. 

1 NEVER OFFER your STBX her clothes and/or personal necessities. Wait 'til she asks. 
a) Make her sign a receipt for anything she takes. NO EXCEPTIONS!! 
b) Store her personal belongings in boxes. Set them on the sidewalk where she can pick them up and leave immediately. More importantly, she'll have no reason to roam through your house. 

c) Release her belongings ONLY if she signs a receipt, and ONLY if she has a police escort. 

19) File charges and PROSECUTE your STBX for any domestic violence. DO NOT DROP any charges. 

20) Inform your employer that you want your calls screened. 
a) If your STBX calls, call the police and file a restraining order violation. DON'T EVEN THINK TWICE!! 
b) Use your employer's receptionist is a witness. 

Do all of the above. Leave no stone unturned. These measures set the tone 'til trial. Cut off your STBX's money and resourses early in the game. Do anything and everything that hinders her bid for custody. THIS IS WAR!! NEVER LOOK BACK!! 

MEANWHILE: Focus on the basics. Fine-tune your game plan. Work on strategy. Keep it simple. 

Don't forget, ALWAYS HAVE A CONTINGENCY PLAN for everything (Plan B) 

Get your financial house in order. Clean out/close out everything, especially joint accounts. Take "convenience" out of purchasing. This includes credit cards, on-line purchasing, and other "lines-of-credit" you've established over time. This vicious cycle must be broken. 

Except for essentials, don't buy anything. If you must buy, pay with cash. Pay all bills the old-fashioned way. Write a check and drop it in the mail. Keep a record of bills that get paid. 

"IN YOUR NAME ONLY" - Route all mail to a new PO Box. Get a new cell phone. Keep it secure. Use it for "IMPORTANT" business only. Open savings and checking accounts at a different bank. Get a new safe deposit box to store cash, valuables, and documents. Open new Visa & Mastercard accounts. Use them only for "EMERGENCIES." Get a line of credit as large as you can. Rent a storage locker to stash large items of value. Remember your inventory? Manage it closely. Get new passwords for everything, including credit cards, PC, & ATM. 

STASH YOUR CASH in your new safe deposit box. Another option is to open a "secured" Visa/Mastercard account. The bank takes $XXXX.00 from one account deposits it in an interest-drawing "trust." Meanwhile, use the credit card as usual up to the secured dollar amount. You can deposit additional funds as they become available. This/these transaction(s) 
don't "appear" on bank or credit card statements. There's just less cash in your account. 

MOVING ON - Convert what you can to cash. Think, "D-O-W-N-S-I-Z-E." Sell everything. Pay bills and reduce debt as much as possible. Save all receipts and bills of sale. You may need to account for everything later. 

THIS MEANS: Cancel subscriptions and non-essential services. Cash in stocks and bonds. Sell the Lexus, the Suburban, the RV, and the boat. Sell your time shares for the condo, jewelery, china, and silverware. Include anything and everything you can think of. That means "boy's 
toys" too. You're not gonna have time for them once the proceeding begins. 

Before selling your house, convert your equity into cash by refinancing. You're gonna need it. Remember, there's no guarantee that a sale will occur any time soon. For that matter, there's no guarantee you'll get your asking price. Furthermore, with commissions, taxes, fix-up and 
misc expenses, your equity could dwindle to something far less than you expected. It's best to cash out while you can. 

The idea is to liquidate what you can ahead of time, while you have time. You won't have that luxury later. The time to sell is BEFORE you really have to. If you wait 'til the last minute, you'll be selling at a deep discount. 

Keep plenty of cash on hand so there's no paper trail. You'll need this for "emergencies." For starters, earmark $10K for attorney fees and court expenses. Expect to need more later. 

YOUR JOB: 

Now is a great time to consider career options. They may be offered at work, or you may have to be creative: early retirement; continuing education; sabbatical; voluntarily lay-off/termination. Collect unemployment, severance package, restructure your career path. Do anything to minimize gross pay and maximize time spent getting prepared. 

Postpone raises and promotions (if possible). Get your employer to tuck away a percentage of your salary where it can't be touched. Think, "asset protection." The idea is to minimize child support and alimony payments. You can return to your career path when this is over. 

You may want to cash out your retirement/401K. Your STBX is gonna get half. You may as well get the other half. Your "rainy day" is here. 

I know this sounds like a lot. It is. There's a lot at stake. Remember, the war starts the moment you file. Once you file, all hell's gonna break loose. You'll barely have time to keep up with details that follow, much less play "catch-up" or track down any of the above. 

Rule of thumb = Preparation means everything


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

SolitaryConfinement said:


> ...If she comes clean, and sounds as if there is regret, and wants to truly make some changes...


:rofl:

Oh, you were serious.

Sorry.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

too many yrs to change her dude. you should know that by now. yeah, it last for a day or two, then same o same o. that mental building up you did on yourself, she will just tear you down again. I implore you for your children sake. LEAVE. normally I say don't leave your house, but in this, I actually fear for your mental health. I heard the despair in your words as if you spoke them to me personally. Please my man, save yourself. If adultry makes no difference to the court. Do as Mr.K say and just walk. You will be no good to your kids going forward, if you let her destroy the selfesteem you have rebuilt. She may be a good mom and you a good dad, but together you two are toxic. And you know she is going to deny, you know she don't want you to leave, you don't want to leave, but your core self is trying to save you. Its saying, you have taken enough abuse and trama. You will still be there for your kids, but you will show them that if the marriage is not healthy, you have to know when to just let it go. GOOD LUCK and GOD BLESS.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> The hardest part is where you are at right now. In most cases you will crack and tell her your suspicions. Don't. As hard as it is try to get a grip on your emotions.
> 
> Go to the doctor, seriously make an appointment asap. This will give you some cover, say to your wife that you don't feel right and are getting tested for a host of things. You might be able to use this to cover up your anxiety and racing thoughts.
> 
> Don't spill your guts on what you suspect and don't know to your wife.


Spot on.

First off, never reveal your sources. Secondly, never accuse or confront until you have solid 100% proof.

Third, get to the doc asap. Get the full STD panel of tests. Then, stop having sex with your wife. Seriously, stop. Come up with some excuse. Prostate pain. Enlarged prostate also can cause penis pain. Great excuse to avoid contact.

Visit dadsdivorce.com forums for some good info on how to prepare for possible divorce.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

SolitaryConfinement said:


> I am going to ask her, giving one opportunity to come clean. If she comes clean, and sounds as if there is regret, and wants to truly make some changes, i would consider it. If she comes clean, and is not truly apologetic, OR if she continues to lie, i will insist on a seperation, leading to divorce. That is my plan at this time anyway. I hope I have the strength when the time comes.


SC, that plan shows that you do value your marriage and you are putting your children's welfare in a high priority. My counselor advised me that it is ok to ask but not ok to accuse. "There have been some things which seem odd to me, so I just wanted to ask you if there have been any affairs?". This gives her the opportunity to answer you rather than feel that she has to defend an outright accusation. You cannot finesse the timing or the words to elicit the truth - she will either be truthful or not.

The chance of her being truthful is exceedingly low, but you don't have a lot to lose at this point. The only caveat is whether you should take time to collect information via methods suggested (gps, var, keyloggers, etc).

I think you need to consider the possibility that she says she has not cheated, and it is true. If she denies everything in a believable way, are you still wanting to divorce her? If the answer is yes, fire away. But if you think you are not yet ready to divorce her, I would hold off on the question. Marriage counseling might be a better first step in that case.

My sense from what you have written is that you are in a toxic marriage and you would be better off ending it. Do you have any indication that she would be willing to honestly try to change herself and to repair the marriage? If so, I would again suggest holding off on any questions about affairs until you can get into MC.

But if you are ready to just pull the plug now, consider just letting this whole suspicious event go. Do the divorce without torturing yourself over whether she is involved with someone else.

Eat well, reduce the caffeine and alcohol, get some exercise. It will help with the stress.

Best of luck.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

Today is ground zero. Packed up and moved out. Dear God...... so freakin hard,but i know it was necessary. Feeling alone/worthless/miserable......


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

Wait, _you_ moved out? What happened?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Update us. What happened?


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Sorry about how you're feeling and I assume things came to a head in your situation.Talk about it if you want and when you're ready.Take care.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So now you moved out and your STBXW (soon to be ex wife) can now call it abandonment will OM (other man) has your kids sit on his lap in your lazyboy.

Sir please reconsider moving back home. You will be best served by doing this during the divorce.

You are making some big mistake here brother keep posting!!!!


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

in a nutshell. she has been living upstairs for the last two weeks with the kids. will not speak to me at all. only communication is thru text/email, or to tell me what an ******* i am.. couldnt take it any longer. self esteem hit rock bottom. lost all self value. had to go for self preservation. I did talk with the kids last night. they knew it was coming anyway. they say that they understood, but i dont fully understand, not sure how they could. God Bless 'em.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

So... divorce?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

They most likely saw mommies new boyfriend already.

File for divorce, get a lawyer and know your options, you diserve a break but man you need to get back home.

There to many what if's here. You need to buckle up and protect your self and even your kids.

what about the abandonment issues in court?

what about the OM moving in or staying the night with your kids there.

what if wife leave OM with the kids and he's a sick f^ck pediphal

Please see a lawyer Monday move back in and make sure you protect your self from false accusations.

If you deside to go back home make sure you post 1st....there are alot of things you need to do before you take that step.

The advice here will prevent you from getting arrested.....but for now take the next few days off, call in sick get a lawyer and protect your self from getting screwed in court.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

STOP GIVING UP!!!!

Your kids are depending on you.

It will do you a world of good to go work out and take control of this crap damb it!!!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Don't give up on you. *Talk to a lawyer*. Yesterday. Follow his advice to a T so you are protected. Put the ball rolling to move on. Keep in touch with your childrens, dayly. Forget about their mother but never about them.
Go NC with her except for logistics. Work on your self. Go out with trusted friends. Take care of your body, your mind, your soul.

*Don't give up!*


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Please see a lawyer and get advice on how much moving out hurts you in the divorce process and custody. Your kids do not deserve having their dad just give them up. Do it for them, your wife should not get to be their example of how to terribly mistreat others. They will not forget.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Man, you need to get back in the house right now. What happened? Was the OM who you suspected? Did you confront?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Do not move out. Do see a lawyer ASAP and have him help you through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Mach, I heard the despair in this guy. read post #36. leaving was the best thing for him. Before the guy with the big bone abusive wife, he was the most mentally destroyed person I read of here. I think his kids are glad for their father. They understood even when he didn't. No kid wants to see their father destroyed by their mom. This is not giving up on his kids, this is self preservation of the lil bit of himself that he has left. She has beat this man down so much over the years, that even his kids want him to save himself. Its times like reading his post that I am thankful for not having as much humanity as most.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You need to see an attorney ASAP as others are suggesting.

Go open bank accounts in your name only and move half everything in joint accounts into your personal bank accounts. Have your pay check go directly to your personal accounts.

Only pay bills that are in your name. If they are in her name, let her handle them.

Talk to your attorney about getting 50/50 custody. You should have no problem getting it.

There are two kinds of custody.. .legal and physical... Make sure that you get 50/50 legal so that you have equal say in things that deal with your children, like medical care, schools they attend, etc. Also fight for as much physical custody as you can. Start now by taking your children out as much as you can and having them stay over wherever it is you are staying.

Ask your attorney to put in an interim custody plan for now that gives you the children as close to 50% of the time as is possible.

People often have the mistaken notion that only one parent can have custody of the children.. most states now prefer as close to 50/50 custody as possible as they know that children need both of their parents.

Treat her according to 180 to protect your mental/emotional health. If you can start seeing a counselor and/or join a divorce support group. You sound like you really need this support.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

OldWolf57 said:


> Mach, I heard the despair in this guy. read post #36. leaving was the best thing for him. Before the guy with the big bone abusive wife, he was the most mentally destroyed person I read of here. I think his kids are glad for their father. They understood even when he didn't. No kid wants to see their father destroyed by their mom. This is not giving up on his kids, this is self preservation of the lil bit of himself that he has left. She has beat this man down so much over the years, that even his kids want him to save himself. Its times like reading his post that I am thankful for not having as much humanity as most.


I have seen kid's opinions of one parent completely distroyed by the other parent. In my experience it's usually a mean spirited, bitter mother who spends a lot of the time with the children. I was afraid that this migh be the case for SC but maybe not. I hope not.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

EleGirl, you are not far from actuality. it has been done over a long period of time. She has no issues saying very nasty things, regardless of the kids being in earshot or not. I dont.

for those that say to go back, I understand what you are saying, but it is not an option. she is not leaving, nor does she mind me staying, and continuing as is. Me leaving had more to do with self preservation. I am no good for myself right now, much less for my kids. This time is allowing me to recharge my batteries, so i have the strength to move forward, take care of me and my kids. I would not be able to do that there. I hope that makes sense. 

So this is first full day away.... I miss my kids terribly, have been texting reminding them i love them. Other than that, I feel a bit guilty (just a small bit) because i dont feel bad about being gone. i can breathe, i feel relaxed. I know there are some hard days ahead, but I know I'm gonna get thru it.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Contact a lawyer soon and make sure something gets written down so you leaving the marital house wont be seen as abandonment. Make sure to go for 50/50 parenting time and good luck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Who might the OM be? A mutual friend?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Solitary, you have to look after your sanity first and foremost. Without that you have nothing. Next - your self respect. Without that you ARE nothing.

If moving out is what you needed to save those, then you did the RIGHT THING.

The last thing your kids need is a beaten man.

Better to live to fight another day my friend. Walk tall and you can look people in the eye - your kids especially.

It might be years until the truth comes out and perhaps your kids may never really know. Handle yourself with dignity. Be proud and you can at least walk away from this with *you* intact.

The rest - it's just money and you can always get more of that.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It makes sence that you get away and clear your head.
OldWolf57 has a realy good point.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

SC, no here wants you in a place that will destroy you. The Vets was thinking of the long term, but I somehow saw and felt. Save you, then you can be the man the kids need.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> the Vets was thinking of the long term


I'm thihnking in legal consequences for leaving; money and custody wise. 
He needs two apointments.
1 - Lawyer.
2 - IC.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Solitary would you update us on what has gone down? I know there was missing time/location and now separation. What did you find?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Legal be damn when you trying to save your LIFE. This man sounded at the end with no way out. I rather see him gone than destroyed.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

I did not leave because of her seeing someone else. seeing someone else is a product of what is not right in our marraige. I may be naive, but I do believe it was just the once. either way, if it were once per day, that is not the largest problem i am facing. I have not given it much thought since i stopped posting. what i did was to focus on me, and find a way to gain the strength to step out of a situation that was breaking me down pieces at a time. Getting out is going to give me, and hopefully her as well, enough space to get clarity. now i can begin to focus on what i need to be doing from this point forward.... Divorce? probably, i dont think she is going to change. she doesnt see herself as having a problem, it is all me. as for me, a bit of counseling, a bit of healing, alot of time with my kids. one way or another, i will come out of this on the other side, much stronger. I know it is a long road. I watched movies all day. and you see people hugging, holding and being affectionate. you think to yourself, why cant we have that? and this was an action flick, doing my best to stay away from emotional dramas and crap. either way, had some weak moments today, but overall not bad. i know that there will be days that are gonna just wipe me out. thank goodness for a forum such as this, and the sage advice from you guys, especially oldwolf


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

No thanks needed. Just take care of yourself !!! Take all the time you need. If you don't feel as if you can talk to her for a few weeks, then DON'T. She did this to you over time, and healing won't happen over night. You already see there will be weak moments, but was strong enough to resist. As for the kids, tx, call or meet them away from home. that will also be a source of strength. And thats what you need now, things that build your inner strength. Remember " Take care of today, for tomorrow will take care of itself. God Bless SC.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

Small Update (Big update to me... )

So, last night being alone and without her was very difficult. Being the eternal optimist, I know that there is good in her, and that is what i miss terribly. I know it doesnt change the negative behavior, her quick to judge reactions, and constant reminding of all the negative things she feels about me. Either way, I love her with all that I am, and though our relationship may be caustic, and we may never work thru these things, I will always have love for her in my heart.

Today, I reread this thread, along with some other posts. I do not live by the motto that misery loves company, but it is a bit comforting to know that others are/have gone thru similar, and even come out on the other side in a much better place. One of those posts mentioned a book "No more Mr. Nice Guy". I downloaded it this morning and am already 1/2 way thru it.

She suffers (always has) from depression, anger issues, abandonment issues, and I am sure a whole slew of other issues, but reading what i have so far has been an enlightenment. My value, my self worth, my emotional state has always been dependent upon her. Me trying to provide and make her happy has always been my driving force. Again, i am not discounting the things that she needs to address, but this book has really begun to open my eyes to ways that I have helped contribute to where we are. I know that this is something I need to work on for me, not us, but me. I have got to start basing my self worth on what I accomplish instead of waiting for someone elses approval of what i have done. Between her issues and mine, it really seems a miracle that we were able to last nearly two decades. I am suprised that we didnt implode log ago. 

We will be going to 2nd trip to marraige counselor this week (week 1 didnt go so well). I am activly seeking a counselor for myself. I havent decided if i want to go to the same one as for MC. I have also found a mens support group and will attend first meeting on Wednesday. I will get thru this, and I will be stronger on the other end of it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Make sure you seek out a counselor who knows about codependency and how to deal with it. You sir, apparently got more than your fair share of it the day they were doling it out. 

Make sure the counselor also has knowledge of how to treat grief management and PTSD. 

Take care of yourself. Let your wife sort out the mess she has made of her own life. She seems a lost cause to me. I've known too many like her, and the prognosis for them ever living a happy life is never a good one.


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## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

SC,
I am really glad that you are working on the co-dependancy thing. That is a really big step. I am a huge co-dependant myself, and it can be so freeing to finally see it and work yourself out of it.

I'm five months out and even though life is pretty sh!tty at times, it is way better than it was before. Seems crazy to say when your whole world has collapsed, but when you feel like you can make your own happiness instead of relying on someone else to give it to you life is so much more fulfilling 

Best of luck to you. Don't rush yourself or think you should be farther along than you are (typical perfectionist co-dependant behavior) and just try to acknowledge the small changes you feel every day. They add up pretty quickly 

ETA: Support group, wonderful!! Forgot to say that


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> codependency and how to deal with it. You sir, apparently got more than your fair share of it the day they were doling it out. .


So I am finding out..... I think dealing with this, for me, has become #1 priority on the list. It is something I need to deal with in order to make this work (long shot) or to have any successful relationship in the future.




........ and thank you OregonMom for the affirmation. it always helps to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel (regardless of how LOOOONG that tunnel may be)


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Make sure you seek out a counselor who knows about codependency and how to deal with it. You sir, apparently got more than your fair share of it the day they were doling it out.
> 
> Make sure the counselor also has knowledge of how to treat grief management and PTSD.
> 
> Take care of yourself. Let your wife sort out the mess she has made of her own life. She seems a lost cause to me. I've known too many like her, and the prognosis for them ever living a happy life is never a good one.


And make sure it is *not* the same counselor you are using for MC. You need someplace all to your own so you can feel free to open up and you need someone who will listen to your issues without being contaminated by relationship issues or your wife's issues. This is about you and no one else.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If you are paying for the MC, stop wasting your money. MC is worthless unless your wife has broken off all ties with the OM. All she is going to do is go in there and lie and blameshift and play the game. 

Your money will be better spent for a membership at a healthclub to make yourself fit and healthy, or to pay for an attorney to begin the divorce proceedings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> If you are paying for the MC, stop wasting your money. MC is worthless unless your wife has broken off all ties with the OM. All she is going to do is go in there and lie and blameshift and play the game.
> 
> Your money will be better spent for a membership at a healthclub to make yourself fit and healthy, or to pay for an attorney to begin the divorce proceedings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ditto, there are of late a lot of BS who are ignoring his advice .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

Morning workouts started about 6-8 months ago. it has been the only escape and release I've had.

She is paying for the counseling thus far. I would go anyway at this point. the first meeting, counselor mentioned that she was not there to make our marraige work, but to help us figure out what is best for our future. If that is together, then to help us work thru issues. if it is for us to end things, there are still some issues that need to be addressed, mostly because we will still have interaction due to the kids. I dont disagree with this.

Beowulf - those were my thoughts and concerns. I will activly seek someone seperate.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

have her meet you there, Do not be around her in any other way. The less she say the better off you are. Although I see you getting stronger, I don't see you being strong enough to let her be around you yet.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

I cant tell you how right you are... We both come from work, so driving seperate is not an issue. Strong enough to be around her? NOT.... I picked up the kids yesterday evening (my day to shuttle to practice, and a chance to see them). My youngest asked me in to help with something. I saw my wife, and all i wanted to do was hold her. i could tell from the look on her face that she wanted the same, but i didnt. With everything going on, i still want to feel her close, but i know that i will not be able to deal with the issues that caused us to separate if i dont keep that distance. She also invited me in for dinner when i took the kids back home. I respectfully declined. 

Up until now, fighting my emotional dependency on her has always been harder to deal with than fighting with her and the constant barrage on my character. I have to say, it wsa so F'ing hard not to pull her close and hold her, or to walk out on an opportunity to sit and eat as a family, really f'ing hard. But i did it, felt so alone on the way back to my temp residence, but by time i got there, i felt good about me. I felt that i did the right thing for me, for a change. I know she will get in to counseling and say she is trying, and she invited me to dinner, and I said no, so i must not "really" want to work thru this, and some how turn this in to a negative about me. Hopefully the counselor is smart enough to understand, but even if she doesnt.... I know i did it for the right reasons, and I did it for me. 1st lunch today with new mens group. Hope it goes as well as expected.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

SC,

I am glad you are getting the help you need to be happy.

I also hope your wife is getting the professional help she needs to be happy.

You both need this separation no matter what path you two choose to take with your marriage.

Good Luck and keep posting about your journey.

Take care of your head, your heart and your soul.

I can tell you that your relationship with your wife is far from over.

HM64


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

SolitaryConfinement, you will be better off if you spend any resources
you were going to devote toward marriage counseling toward planning your escape from your cheating wife. What you will soon realize is that no matter what the outcome is from reconciliation attempts, you will NEVER be able to trust her, again.
Even should you get back together and have a few months of what appears to be normalcy, you will one day look at her and wonder just what she is doing when you aren't around.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> counselor mentioned that she was not there to make our marraige work, but to help us figure out what is best for our future.


Sounds good... At least she is not of of those "let's start sweeping it under the rug"


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> I know she will get in to counseling and say she is trying, and she invited me to dinner, and I said no, so i must not "really" want to work thru this, and some how turn this in to a negative about me.


To need to go deeper detaching. Forget about what she might tell IC or whatever IC might tell her.
You are right doing this. That's all you need to care about. I know, I know. Easy said than done. Just try catch yourself when things like this arises in your head and simply reject it. Out loud if necessary.

Hang though, man.


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

Geez.... Bad Day today... at work, so cant add too much to events over the last two days (will be able to give more detail later). Went to my first group lunch gathering for NMMNG on Wed, and had MC Wed eve. MC didnt go near as bad as i had expected, and i felt stronger. Yesterday, we had little to no contact, and I had a VERY productive day. Today, early in the morning, I had to reach out to her about something, and it was back to the same old ****. htere was a slight mis-understanding on both our parts, i tried to keep things in focus as her tone became more and more agitated. at the end, i got the info i needed from her but she was clear that she was pissed. I did apologize for any lack of clarity on my part, asked her if she could deal with things in a way other than anger, and possibly realize that there was just misunderstanding on both our parts. never responded back. i havent reached back out to her to try and calm things down, but i also have not been able to work all freakin day. I have gotten NOTHING done, and cant seem to get any focus. I dont know if i am more frustrated with her for always assuming the worst of me, and reacting with anger, or with myself for letting my emotions get away from me and controlling my entire day. 

I know this is a day by day thing, but today? NOT a good day. So now i feel even worse - initially because of allowing her and the situation to hijack my emotions, but now also for not getting a single thing done all day. AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

SC
One day at a time and continue to vent here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So do I understand correctly that you are rug sweeping the ONS and just concerning yourself with the abusive situation that your marriage has become? You've never got her to admit where she was and you've never confronted her with the gps evidence?


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Before i have to re-read the whole thread again... Who cheated on who again? Because reading this:



> Geez.... Bad Day today... at work, so cant add too much to events over the last two days (will be able to give more detail later). Went to my first group lunch gathering for NMMNG on Wed, and had MC Wed eve. MC didnt go near as bad as i had expected, and i felt stronger. Yesterday, we had little to no contact, and I had a VERY productive day. Today, early in the morning, I had to reach out to her about something, and it was back to the same old ****. htere was a slight mis-understanding on both our parts, i tried to keep things in focus as her tone became more and more agitated. at the end, i got the info i needed from her but she was clear that she was pissed. I did apologize for any lack of clarity on my part, asked her if she could deal with things in a way other than anger, and possibly realize that there was just misunderstanding on both our parts. never responded back. i havent reached back out to her to try and calm things down, but i also have not been able to work all freakin day. I have gotten NOTHING done, and cant seem to get any focus. I dont know if i am more frustrated with her for always assuming the worst of me, and reacting with anger, or with myself for letting my emotions get away from me and controlling my entire day.
> 
> I know this is a day by day thing, but today? NOT a good day. So now i feel even worse - initially because of allowing her and the situation to hijack my emotions, but now also for not getting a single thing done all day. AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!


I could have swear that it was you who had cheated, got caught and now you're giving control of the situation to your wife. Being fearful of her anger and whatnot. And she "assuming the worse" of you! Seriously man...


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

SC, just take it one day, hour minute second at a time. Your emotions are completely normal, so just accept they will be all over the place. You will get stronger as you go along, so stop beating yourself up over it. A practical help is to focus on something hands on. Your mind will try to pull you back to your worries as you work or what you are using to deflect, so be aware of that, recognize it and refocus again. REMEMBER, you have been beaten down, and conditioned over a long period of time, so you will have to constantly be refocusing. Expect it and battle it. Each time you refocus, you win a lil more of you back. But be aware, there will be times when you WILL feel totally over taken by it all. So those you will just have to ride out. The good news is they only last so long. Something outside yourself will pull you out that demand your attention. At that time, you have to JUMP on the refocus wagon.
I hope I have given you something that helps. I know it did for me.

Remember, find something that require hand and mind to do !!


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## SolitaryConfinement (Jun 20, 2012)

Costa, no i did not cheat on her.

Maybe this will answer questions a few of you have. Working on Me, you are not far from correct. Maybe i am sweeping it under the rug for now. I posted to this section just after i caught my wife in a blatent lie about where she was for the first time i have known. I do not know that she was cheating. dont get me wrong, I am not being naive and saying she wasnt, but the only proof i have is that she wasnt where she said she was. What i do have proof of is that our marraige, long before this event, has had some major problems. These problems far outweigh any single event as to why my marraige is not working. If the problems were not there, this event probably would have never happened. I need to focus on the root of the problem, and then work my way out to all the spin off stuff.

With all my heart I love this woman. If there were a snowball's chance in hell that this could end up working out, I would take it. There are two things that need to happen in order for us to work. #1 is me. I have to get stronger again, and learn not to be so emotionally dependant upon her. i think the character attacks have become so much easier for her, because I let her do it. #2 she will need to do something about her abandonment and anger issues. 

#1 though i dont think it will be easy (as evidenced on Friday), i will get stronger, and more independant. and i am doing this for me. if we dont get back together, i still need to work on this.

#2 is a more difficult thing - she can always find cause in someone or something else to justify her anger/depressions. I know she says that she doesnt want to live that way anymore, but i am not sure that she is ready to confront it, and deal with it.

If we cannot get past that, then none of the spin off actions or events really matter. assuming that it doesnt work, I dont want to focus on all the little details of what was bad, including the possiblility of her seeing someone else. what good would that do for my future? So, i will deal with the issues that are going to have the biggest impact, and then if we can get past those, we will work on the next item with the biggest impact and so on and so on.

Maybe i have a skewed sense about how i am dealing with this, but i assure you it is the best for me. I am now seperated, and if i focus on the fact that she may have seen someone, my mind is going to be filled all the time with, who is she talking to, where is she at, what is she doing. This wont affect her at all, but it will make me completely ineffective, and i wont have the focus or the energy to work on what i really need to work on. Which is me. 

Right now I am only hoping for the best, yet preparing for the worst. and yes it is a day by day thing. today, I am not feeling as rough as yesterday.


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## death and taxes (Jul 6, 2012)

My marriage with my WW wasn't the best for a year or so before I found hard proof of an A. It disgusted me very much to find out how much I had been lied to. She would say she was going out with a friend of hers from work, and possibly she did, but then she'd be doing who knows what and meeting who knows who. 

But a bad marriage is not a reason to cheat. There is no reason to cheat. If one is unhappy, communicate that fact to the spouse! SC, regardless if your wife cheated or not, you have a serious communication problem. She is lying to you and being extremely secretive. She doesn't trust you and you don't trust her. That's a HUGE problem now. 

I feel for you, SC. I have no trust in my WW anymore. I'm in limbo right now and working on getting her to move out so I can better deal with this. At this point, I don't think I want to R with her, nor her with me. We are headed for divorce. I am sad, sure, but I can't live like this.

Your wife owes you an explanation. If she can't provide one to you, that's all you need to know. Sorry man.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

She is being unfaithful to you because she is lying and keeping her activities secret from you. Affair or not this is unfaithful.

She cannot work on the marriage while she is having an affair. Not sure why this is assumed to be a ONS.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

SC, you are doing the exact thing you need to be doing. The foundation has been weak for years. Her attacking you mentally and emotionally has wrecked the very foundstion of your self. You never saw it coming to this depth, but it conditioned you. Thankfully, her lil side tour and lie gave you the strenght to finally look and ADMIT the depths she has beaten you down to. 

BUT, you are wrong. It will get easier. It takes roughly 6mo. to establish a new habit, and learning to REFOCUS is just that. You learned to accept her abuse, until it became a habit. Thats why it took so long for you to recognize the damage it has done. So just continue to Focus on your mental and emotional health, and it will get easier. 

Have a Good WKND.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Maybe it would help you to read the thoughts og a CHEATER on DocCool?


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

DavidWYoung said:


> Maybe it would help you to read the thoughts og a CHEATER on DocCool?


I advise anyone going to that site to have a barf bag nearby.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I just thru up in my mouth and swallow it back down. The taste is very familure to my old marriage.

Going to "that" site may be a pit much for the newbies, but it is a learning experience in how *some* waywards percieve there betrayed spouse and there AP.


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