# Did I over-react??



## kleinebuste (Feb 5, 2009)

My husband and I had been married a little over a year (been together 6 years) when we went to vegas with a group of friends. It was us and 2 other couples and a single woman. We knew the other couples but had never met the single woman... we'll call her Rachel. Rachel seemed nice enough, a little wild and rough around the edges and VERY open sexually. Right away she was flirting with the husbands of the group (mine included) and was walking around the hotel room half naked in front of everyone. Since it was Vegas and since I try not to be offended by nudity I let it slide. I even let it slide when I saw my husband and another guy from the group feel her breasts - it was more experimental than anything as they were fake but she wanted to get the guys opinions on how "real" they felt. Ok, once again I let it slide and to feel better about it, I touched her breast too when she offered. (FYI - they felt fake to me!) 

Anyway, the night progresses and everyone gets pretty tipsy. We are all at a bar/lounge in a casino and Rachel starts giving everyone lap dances. She gave my husband one first and then me. Once again, I am trying to be a cool wife and not let this woman's overly-sexual behavior bother me. I know she is grieving from a past relationship and besides, she is not very attractive so I feel there is nothing to be jealous of. At some point I leave to go to the restroom. Later, my husband tells me that while I was gone, he had taken a sip from his cocktail and while he did, Rachel leaned her face close to his and stuck out her tongue like she was going to lick his mouth while he drank. Since it sounded playful and they did not actually come into contact I let it slide and did not worry. A few minutes after he told me this, he turned to me and asked "You would not have cared if we had actually touched tongues or if I had made out with Rachel right?" I could not believe he asked me this! He knows where I stand on what I consider cheating so that fact that he even asked this AND was even interested in this trashy woman was very upsetting. He saw I was mad and tried to make excuses like "Well you just seemed so cool with everything that night and we were all drunk so I thought you would not care." I felt like everything backfired. I was trying to be a cool, trusting wife and not be as up-tight and jealous as I normally am and it bit me in the ass. Needless to say this ended in a fight and we left the party to go back to the hotel. Now, months later he still says that I over-reacted since nothing really happened. But for me, it is the fact that 1, we are newlyweds, 2 he should have know that would not be ok with me, and 3 he does not acknowledge how it hurt me... he actually makes me feel bad that it upset me. I mean, he was in the wrong but he tries to turn it around and make me into the bad guy. Not fair. 

Oh, and not to dive too much into the past but he has broken my trust before with secretly putting his profile on a dating site while I was out of the country (a girlfriend of mine saw it), chatting VERY friendly with a female co-worker whom he had let me know was very good-looking (and lied about how their relationship was strictly business as they had gone out to dinner with a couple people and I saw a picture of her laying on his lap), and secretly taking photos of half naked women in his house when we first started dating... his excuse was that he was a photo major and needed subjects. As far as he says, nothing EVER happened with any of these women, but it still broke my trust. To this day, it just takes a little incident like what happened in Vegas to bring all this past stuff flooding back. 

Please, what do you guys think???


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Your husband has pushed the boundaries just about as far as he can without really breaking them (In his mind). His past missteps have left you with trust issues. A calm discussion needs to take place to set the boundaries for the future. Until he understands yours his actions will continue. And no, I don’t think you overreacted.


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## TGolbus (Nov 3, 2008)

There is a clear sign that your relationship needs some focus. Your boundaries apparently aren't his. The big issue is he is doing things that are selfish without consideration from you. 
You are upset and scared. How does he feel? Is he feeling not appreciated and he feels like more of a man when someone else is flirting with him?
How open and honest are your discussions?


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

You did not over react and it seems your husband wants a pass to get away with whatever he chooses. He has broken the trust, not you. If he can't see this he needs counciling.

draconis


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I dont think you overreacted. the night was crazy and i think you should have ditched that girl at the first sign of trouble. jsut remember to trust your instincts.


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## kleinebuste (Feb 5, 2009)

Thank you for the feedback everyone. It helps to know that you think I did not overreact. He really makes me doubt that my feelings are valid and makes me feel like a crazy person.

Amplexor, we have had many calm discussions about the boundaries I want to establish in our relationship and some of the conversations go really well. But sometimes he feels like I am attacking his character and then he flips out and refuses to discuss things. The reason I joined this forum is because I just can't talk to him anymore and need outside input from people that are not emotionally involved. He refuses to take my feelings seriously and I don't know what to do. 

TGolbus, yes, I am definitely upset and scared. It seems like every time I have let my guard down and fully open my heart to him he does something to break my trust. I think he feels like an old married man. He has ALWAYS desired the attention of others even when I give him lots of love an affection. For some reason he still desires outside attention. He can be quite egotistical so maybe he needs that boost every now again. I just wish I was enough for him. We have very open and honest communication and have talked about this issue a few times and it seems like he feels it is a mixture of needing an ego boost as well as his partial addiction to sex.

draconis, we went to counseling about a year ago and it was very short lived. He felt like the counselor and I were bullying him because he was pin-pointed as the one that had the most issues to resolve. I thought if the counselor agreed with me he would see my concerns were valid, but instead he got mad and refused to go back.

ljtseng, you are right. Normally I would have put my foot down much earlier in the evening, but I guess I don't want to be one of those wives that men complain about... the ones that are over-bearing and protective. I guess it is because my husband has made me believe I have overreacted to all scenarios in the past that I am trying to be a little more mellow. But obviously I need to keep him on a shorter leash until he learns to grow up and have a little more respect for me. It is hard though when he constantly compares our marriage to others saying "Well Bob is much worse than me and his wife is cool with him flirting" and stuff like "I am a man, which means I am overly sexual" so I should expect his behavior and be ok with it. Total crap I say.

Overall I am just looking for him to validate my feelings and promise to respect my boundaries so I can gain trust with him again. It is really hurting our realtionship. I have lost most all my feelings of intimacy and sexual desire for him. We never even kiss anymore. We are really good friends but that is where it ends. I think these issues are the cause.

Thanks again for all the feedback everyone. I feel better already


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

kleinebuste said:


> Amplexor, we have had many calm discussions about the boundaries I want to establish in our relationship and some of the conversations go really well. But sometimes he feels like I am attacking his character and then he flips out and refuses to discuss things. The reason I joined this forum is because I just can't talk to him anymore and need outside input from people that are not emotionally involved. He refuses to take my feelings seriously and I don't know what to do.


Normally I would suggest you appeal to his empathy for you. To tell him how his actions make you feel and not attack the behavior but it appears he has no empathy for your feelings. You state he can be egotistical so that would suggest he is self centered. Have you tried drafting a very carefully worded letter on your feelings and how this behavior hurts you? How it hurts your self esteem, your feelings for him, makes you feel unappreciated and undesired…. You need to find a way to reach him.



kleinebuste said:


> Overall I am just looking for him to validate my feelings and promise to respect my boundaries so I can gain trust with him again. It is really hurting our realtionship. I have lost most all my feelings of intimacy and sexual desire for him. We never even kiss anymore. We are really good friends but that is where it ends. I think these issues are the cause.


Emotionally detaching from him will not help, it will exacerbate the behavior. He will feel more need for the attention of others because of your withdrawal. In doing this you are trying to protect yourself from emotional stress but doing so will only deepen the problem. If you wish the marriage to recover you cannot withdraw. I am not suggesting you not state your boundaries nor reward him for poor behavior but withdrawing is one of the worst things you can do if you are still looking to improve the marriage.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

kleinebuste said:


> I guess it is because my husband has made me believe I have overreacted to all scenarios in the past that I am trying to be a little more mellow.


Geeze if he thinks you are overreacting, he ought to meet me. If my H ever did something like what your H did, well, let's just say he would understand the scripture, hell hath no fury like a women scorned. your H should be grateful. I admire women like you who can stay so mellow. 

I also struggled with wanting to be the "cool" wife. I struggled with my H's porn addiction because i wasnt sure how to draw the line and stick with it. i wanted to be ok with it, but i wasnt, and i went back and forth with that for awhile. It was difficult for me.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

Hi,

I might be the only one here but he did take the time to ask if you would have been OK with the idea rather than just assume it was OK.

Like you said, it was a bit of a wild night and us fellas can get a bit carried away...


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## java (Jan 15, 2009)

I would say you were way cooler than I would have been...I would have knocked the trashy chick out early in the evening...but that's just me. 

He has pushed his limits in the past....I wouldn't trust him either...too many what if's there....but if you know he didn't do anything with her...even being tempted...that is pretty admirable...given the situation for anyone in that environment...with all tipsy and you seemingly ok with her being so overly sleezy...and he still didn't take advantage of the situation...that is good on his part. I would be proud of him for not taking advantage of a situation that really could have caused huge problems.


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## 1nurse (Jan 21, 2009)

How many red flags do you need to have waved in your face about your husband's behaviour? I wouldn't have married this guy if I were you right from the get go. I would have tossed him to the curb a long time ago while you were dating.  Hate to say it but him actually cheating is only a matter of time honey. Forget councelling. He disrespected you and he doesn't care. The fact you put up with it only encouraged him further. 

Forget being the "cool wife." Decent, honorable men don't behave this way. Please don't get pregnant. I would think about leaving before it's too late.


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## kleinebuste (Feb 5, 2009)

Amplexor said:


> Emotionally detaching from him will not help, it will exacerbate the behavior. He will feel more need for the attention of others because of your withdrawal. In doing this you are trying to protect yourself from emotional stress but doing so will only deepen the problem. If you wish the marriage to recover you cannot withdraw. I am not suggesting you not state your boundaries nor reward him for poor behavior but withdrawing is one of the worst things you can do if you are still looking to improve the marriage.


I agree that withdrawing emotionally will not help and only make him want to seek outside attention but it is not something I am doing consciously. I just have little to no desire for him anymore - to be sexual or affectionate. It is sad. I guess I can force myself to be more affectionate in order to get the ball rolling...


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

when my H was doing things that were hurtful to me, and i tried to talk to him and got nothing, i withdrew. he could have chosen to immerse himself more in his addiction, but i decided i should no longer try and control what he does. i just needed to take care of me.


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## kleinebuste (Feb 5, 2009)

psychocandy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I might be the only one here but he did take the time to ask if you would have been OK with the idea rather than just assume it was OK.
> 
> Like you said, it was a bit of a wild night and us fellas can get a bit carried away...


Haha, yeah I guess he did ask if it was OK  I will give him some props for that, but not much. He tried using the "I'm a guy and we are horny creatures so you can't blame me for acting this way" type of thing, but personally I think that is bull. Man or woman, we are all human and equally have desires but fortunately we were born with brains to (hopefully) counteract our urges.


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## kleinebuste (Feb 5, 2009)

ljtseng said:


> when my H was doing things that were hurtful to me, and i tried to talk to him and got nothing, i withdrew. he could have chosen to immerse himself more in his addiction, but i decided i should no longer try and control what he does. i just needed to take care of me.


Yes, at some point you can't help those that don't want to be helped and you need to focus on yourself. I think that is the phase I am in now. Sadly I am putting my relationship on a back burner for a while and trying to focus on making myself happy in other areas of my life like my career, health, and hobbies. Maybe once I am happier with myself I can focus more on making us work. I was too wrapped up before in his life and looking to him to make me happy.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

kleinebuste said:


> I was too wrapped up before in his life and looking to him to make me happy.


ya this was me too. when i first withdrew, i was hurt and bitter and thought it was a bad thing to have to withdrawal. i thought he didnt love me and i couldnt share things with him because he was a selfish narcissist. i withheld more for control and to stop hurting. 

but now i feel my life has a lot more balance to it and i take care of myself. so even though i am still withdrawn to an extent, its more for boundaries and to work on the relationship at a level that its productive.


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## kleinebuste (Feb 5, 2009)

1nurse said:


> How many red flags do you need to have waved in your face about your husband's behaviour? I wouldn't have married this guy if I were you right from the get go. I would have tossed him to the curb a long time ago while you were dating.  Hate to say it but him actually cheating is only a matter of time honey. Forget councelling. He disrespected you and he doesn't care. The fact you put up with it only encouraged him further.
> 
> Forget being the "cool wife." Decent, honorable men don't behave this way. Please don't get pregnant. I would think about leaving before it's too late.


You are right, there were many red flags about his behavior, I won't argue that. I guess I just thought his love for me would overcome any desires he had for other women. However, I think he will always have the need to feel wanted by other women and will always flirt. But he knows that if the day ever comes where he takes it further, I will divorce him, no questions about it. If he ever cheats then that shows he does not love me and we shouldn't be together, simple as that. Until then, I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt as in every other way he is a really good man and is very caring. 

I don't want to be the "cool wife" but I don't want to be a "controlling wife" either. He is not a child and I am not his mother. As for having children, we don't plan on having any and I am very responsible about my birth control. Besides, even though I might be sightly "gullible" and/or optimistic about us being able to work through our issues, I won't bring children into an unstable relationship. I was raised in a broken home and won't do that to my children... if I ever have any.


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## kleinebuste (Feb 5, 2009)

ljtseng said:


> ya this was me too. when i first withdrew, i was hurt and bitter and thought it was a bad thing to have to withdrawal. i thought he didnt love me and i couldnt share things with him because he was a selfish narcissist. i withheld more for control and to stop hurting.
> 
> but now i feel my life has a lot more balance to it and i take care of myself. so even though i am still withdrawn to an extent, its more for boundaries and to work on the relationship at a level that its productive.


Glad to hear that you are taking care of yourself. It seems like women are programmed to put others first and we tend to lose ourselves. I think many women would be a lot happier if they just stopped to ask themselves "what do I want and what would make me happy?"


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