# She says she "lost herself"



## confu?ed

So let me try to summarize it all as quickly as I can..
We met in college, have been together for 9 years - married for 4, no children.
We are the same age and work at the same place.
I must have been blind by love and thinking that nothing bad would ever happen to us, for our relationship was "perfect".
We would never keep any secrets from each other and we would ride off into the sunset.... Up until 7 months ago.

The W claims that this has been going on for at least 2 years, but I didn't see it. Looking back now, I can see glimpses, but not until recently did I fully understand.
It started off with her saying "you lost passion for me" and "we do everything together, I need you to be your own person" followed by "I need a partner to walk beside me" and "We need to goto counseling." Most recently, it has been "you are a wonderful man, I don't deserve you" and "I can't be with you because I don't love myself"....

3 Weeks ago, she admitted to an EA with "1 make out" session when she was drunk. I asked her very direct questions where she came clean on the whole thing, and I truly believe she has. At the time, I didn't know about the NC letter but she did meet him one last time for about 45 mins where she told him that she can't contact him / he can't contact her. As far as I know she has not contacted him /he hasn't contacted her. 
The weekend of the big reveal, she decided to move to her parents house for a week so that she can figure some things out. She only stayed there one night (confirmed with her parents) and then moved back home. 

She has been going to IC on her own (3 or 4 sessions so far) and she has determined that she doesn't love herself. She is never settled with anything in life. Her mind is constantly active - always thinking about the future, always planning her next moves, always distracting herself with what is next. She doesn't stop to smell the roses. She says that she never really had time to "find herself" because she was always in a relationship. She started dating at 14 and had 3 relationships one after the other until she met me (and when I met her, she just got out of her relationship!!) One of the fears she has is that she doesn't know who she is because she has never been alone! (Even when I travel for work, she has friends stay over so that she is not alone!!) 
She has always looked to me to try to fill whatever "happiness" she was looking for. Over the years, (and I agree with her) I haven't been my own person. I have molded into an extension of her - always trying to do things for her to keep her happy, to fill that "void", and to try to calm her overactive brain.

Anyways, since she moved out for a day (which was supposed to be a week) and came back, we decided that I move out for 2 weeks so that she can try to "find herself." Now I am currently staying at her parents. We decided to try to limit our conversations/contact so that she can focus on herself. She doesn't know if 2 weeks is enough to find herself (I agree, fundamentally, because finding yourself takes your whole lifetime!) But she is not sure if 2 weeks will work - or 1 month - or 6 months - or a year!!! I told her that while I am supportive of her finding herself, I am not going to wait in Limbo. I need her to decide what she wants (obviously, I want to work it out and move forward!)

She has been looking for ideas on ways to find herself so I got her a self help book with a long questionnaire that basically makes you fill in the blanks. (she thought it was a great gift). She has also been going to Yoga and may join a meditation group. 

She has been at our house (supposedly by herself) for almost 2 weeks now. (She had to cook dinner, clean, take care of the animals, etc all by herself) The end of 2 weeks is coming up on Sunday and I think I am going to try to move back in. Here is my thought (which I came up with from reading a LOT of posts on this site)
1) we are having dinner together tomorrow
2) I am going to ask if she has been in contact with OM
3) if she says no, then I am going to ask to see her phone (if yes, conversation ends - it was one of our rules that if it happened, Im out!)
4) if it looks clear I am going to tell her that I am going to move back in for my happiness
5) I am going to tell her that I have been too giving in our relationship whereas I haven't stood up for myself. I have always done what she wanted to try to make her happy. it is time that I make myself happy - start standing up for myself - and do what is right for me. She can continue figuring herself out, but I am going to be there too. (I plan on doing a "180" on most of the things I used to do for her to keep her happy and "not rock the boat")
6) hope for the best!

Any thoughts/ suggestions/ clarifications needed??? I plan on talking to her tomorrow, so any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!!!
THANKS!


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## tacoma

You had me shaking my head like most men who come in here trying to help their cheating wives "find themselves" until I got to your numbered list of actions you intend to take near the end.

Then I realized you at least have an idea of what`s really going on.

However your plan doesn`t account for the cheaters first fallback.
The Lie.

What makes you think she`ll tell you she`s seen the OM if you ask?
What makes you think she doesn`t delete each and every contact she has with him before you can even ask for her phone?

My recommendation to you is to stop trusting the woman who just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt she can`t be trusted.

Don`t ask for her phone, check her phone records.
Don`t ask for her e-mail password, install a keylogger.

Before I left that house it would have had hidden voice activated recorder all over the place.

Stop trusting until you verify.

Edit:

Clarification please.
How long was she involved in this EA?
Who is the OM?


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## DanF

> 3 Weeks ago, she admitted to an EA with "1 make out" session when she was drunk.


That makes it a Physical Affair, not an Emotional one.


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## workitout

You should probably read a book on codependency. You're fortunate that you don't have kids. Leaving will be far easier, if that's the direction you go.

Checking her phone will only show you what was said, if she didn't delete the messages. Phone records will tell you if there's actually been any phone contact.

I, too, didn't "rock the boat" and am paying for it now. You have to be prepared to end it.


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## asylumspadez

I agree with tacoma. During dinner try to keep things neutral between the two of you, Ask how she has been (and similar questions like that). When you move back in, Install key loggers onto your computer(s) and check out the phone bills as well (to make sure she isnt contacting the OM).

Its good that you are gonna leave if she did contact the OM. It shows that you respect yourself and that you wont tolerate her cheating any more.


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## confu?ed

so... taking all of your advice, i just checked the phone records....


has called him 9 times in the last 2 weeks... for a total of 139 minutes... and 3 texts

now my mind just jumped to work.. 
he works at the same company - and we have instant messanger - I can't control that. I now have no doubt in my mind that she has been contacting him!!!!!

When we talked about me moving out, i said "you cannot have any contact with him at all... if I am leaving so that you can work on you, you have to work on you and you cannot talk to/see him"..... looks like she broke that rule.


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## TDSC60

Married 4 years and no kids, and it looks like she is Hell bent on having an EA and continues to lie to you. A PA will follow quickly as she continues to "find herself" (this is code for she wonders what sex with the OM would be like).

With only 4 years in, you can both walk away with a 50/50 split of assets and debts. Divorce now and count yourself lucky that you found out what type of person she really is before you had too much time and efforts involved.

Edit: BTW she cheated and lied - she moves out - not you.


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## calif_hope

You need to have a 'nice' chat with the OM! Maybe even your company's HR dept. Nicely tell him to back off, speak softly - big stick sort of thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confu?ed

is there a like to a sticky or another thread that I can goto to drop the bomb? i would search, but im on mobile and 3g is just way to slow!!!!


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## F-102

She actively pursued him while your back was turned. She took full advantage of your absence. Her saying that she wants to find herself means she wants to pursue him-and wants you out of the way of her happiness.

Face it bud-you're her back up plan.


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## warlock07

I wouldn't be surprised if she had him at your home. Your wife looks like the selfish cheater type. Be prepared for more broken promises and more new age enlightenment crap


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## confu?ed

F-102 said:


> She actively pursued him while your back was turned. She took full advantage of your absence. Her saying that she wants to find herself means she wants to pursue him-and wants you out of the way of her happiness.
> 
> Face it bud-you're her back up plan.


got it- thats why i need to know the next step- i see her tomorrow so i need to prepare quickly


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## Chaparral

I need to find myself means I'm interested in another man. I need to be by myself means I don't want you around spying on me when I am going out with the other man.

You should drive by your house and see who is there. If she is not there you should drive by his house and see who is there. 

GPS her phone/car, keylog computer, VAR in her car and house where she might use phones. Get texts if at all possible. 

Really sorry you are here.


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## Chaparral

By the way, why was she out drunk without her husband? Have you ever heard of girls night out working out any other way?


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## warlock07

I think she set the OP up to leave the house by leaving the house for "one" day. When she was back, OP felt that it was his responsibility to move out this time. Classical set up. I'm guessing that the OM is married and now their house is a safe haven to meet up


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## confu?ed

chapparal said:


> By the way, why was she out drunk without her husband? Have you ever heard of girls night out working out any other way?


she was drunk because i threw her a birthday party and invited over all of her "friends"....

she was acting wierd that night and when i confronted her in the morning (when she was sober) she got mad at me for even thinking anything!!! 

(Thinking back to it, i was PISSED at her actions and I could tell something in my gut that night - who knew, gut reactions are pretty accurate!!!)


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## the guy

Meet her with confidence and an ego that you must muster up that will give your WW the perception that she will lose you if she continues.
In doing this you will make her second quess her choices and make her think twice in what she is about to loose.

So with a smile on your face wish her the best and as long as she continues with her currant behavior you will move on and find what you want out of a healthy relationship.

Show a confidence that will not only help your self esteem but making her choose *now* and that you will not play second fiddel.

And by the the way she will most likely want to stay friend when she sees the new you, but you my friend should dismiss this proposal as a slap in the face and the only thing that will "keep you" around is her disire to be with you and only you and with confidence ....let her know you can and will move on with out her if she chooses to continue this affair.

The perception here is the confidence and indifference that you show her in your ability to move on and find a mutual happiness between you and someone that will be with only you.


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## warlock07

Is it possible to do a drive by your house? Might well catch her red handed.


Edit: Next time you meet her, please for the love of God, don't cry, beg or plead


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## the guy

And yes the gut is always right......in most cases!


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## the guy

If you play it right she will be driving by..to check you out!

Strength man strength, do not beg or chase, but indifference. She needs to see you willing to move on by working on your self , not worring about her behavior but working on and preparing your self for "just letting her go"


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## Shaggy

Dude, expose her and him at work . Let it be known that he is the kind of scum bag that chases married women, and that she style kind of married women who goes with scum like him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

You have no doubt been played with the I need space lie. What she needed was you out of the way to hook up with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confu?ed

warlock07 said:


> Is it possible to do a drive by your house? Might well catch her red handed.
> 
> 
> Edit: Next time you meet her, please for the love of God, don't cry, beg or plead




i would, but im at the in-laws... don't want to give up any suspicion that i know... i need that element of surprise...

i just checked verizon.. it updates pretty quickly... the last person she talked to tonight was me, and no texts tonight. I think ill be ok for tonight.
still planning on tomorrow.

and yes - no crying - no begging...

ONE QUESTION -
do I leave - or do I make her? what are some options?


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## Shaggy

She cheated she leaves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> got it- thats why i need to know the next step- i see her tomorrow so i need to prepare quickly


What else do you need to know?

The boundary you very clearly laid out for her was "No Contact".
The price of contact was losing you.

You have nothing left but to either uphold your boundary or allow it to be disrespected.

Which will you do?


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## the guy

Make her leave.
It is her choice to behave this way so it is her choice to take the steps to do so.

Please make this affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible by asking her to leave. It will show a perception that you are willing to let her go if she continues on this path.

Any thing else will only allow her to have her cake and eat it to!


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## confu?ed

the guy said:


> Make her leave.
> It is her choice to behave this way so it is her choice to take the steps to do so.
> 
> Please make this affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible by asking her to leave. It will show a perception that you are willing to let her go if she continues on this path.
> 
> Any thing else will only allow her to have her cake and eat it to!


not sure that she will leave if I tell her she has to... (at least, i think she won't)...
my backup plan is that i already called my sister and am prepared to stay the night there so that I get out of her parents house


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## confu?ed

tacoma said:


> What else do you need to know?
> 
> The boundary you very clearly laid out for her was "No Contact".
> The price of contact was losing you.
> 
> You have nothing left but to either uphold your boundary or allow it to be disrespected.
> 
> Which will you do?



the next step im looking for is #4
1) drop the bomb of the phone calls and texts
2) ask her to see her facebook
2) give her the "i don't deserve this, you deserve to be happy with him, decide now" speech
4) ask her to leave? leave myself? other options?


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## warlock07

confu?ed said:


> i would, but im at the in-laws... don't want to give up any suspicion that i know... i need that element of surprise...
> 
> i just checked verizon.. it updates pretty quickly... the last person she talked to tonight was me, and no texts tonight. I think ill be ok for tonight.
> still planning on tomorrow.
> 
> and yes - no crying - no begging...
> 
> ONE QUESTION -
> do I leave - or do I make her? what are some options?



You are going out to meet a friend. Why should it concern them?


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## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> the next step im looking for is #4
> 1) drop the bomb of the phone calls and texts
> 2) ask her to see her facebook
> 2) give her the "i don't deserve this, you deserve to be happy with him, decide now" speech
> 4) ask her to leave? leave myself? other options?


Answer these and we can give better advice.

-Who is the OM/How`d she meet him?
-Is the OM married, have a girlfriend?
-Do you rent or own,Whose name is the lease/mortgage in?
-Do you all work together?


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## confu?ed

tacoma said:


> Answer these and we can give better advice.
> 
> -Who is the OM/How`d she meet him?
> -Is the OM married, have a girlfriend?
> -Do you rent or own,Whose name is the lease/mortgage in?
> -Do you all work together?



friend from grad school - who now works for our company too
not married
own - both names
yes, we all work at a fortune 500 company - she sits ~300 yards away from me, he sits ~1mile (it is a big campus)


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## the guy

It's not the point,the point is you will no longer tolorate her currant behavior and you are confident enough to move on with her or with out her...it is her choice.

You can't control her but you can make this kind of statement that lets her know you are strong enough to make it. There by making her think twice about what she *had* and what she has *now*

A man that will not tolorate this behavior. 


Its good she chooses to stay....again making the affiar inconvienent as long as she stay and dealing with the fact that you will continue to make the affair uncomfortable.

Bottom line, if she stays, then she stay under the contitions that you will not be her doormat and you will expose her affair as she continues to disrespect you.

Or she can move out and hid and try to keep this adultous behavior a secret. Again, she stays..then the affair is fought and exposed.

She doesn'tknow it but if she stays, the new you will make it harder for her to continue this behavior.


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## confu?ed

the guy said:


> It's not the point,the point is you will no longer tolorate her currant behavior and you are confident enough to move on with her or with out her...it is her choice.
> 
> You can't control her but you can make this kind of statement that lets her know you are strong enough to make it. There by making her think twice about what she *had* and what she has *now*
> 
> A man that will not tolorate this behavior.
> 
> 
> Its good she chooses to stay....again making the affiar inconvienent as long as she stay and dealing with the fact that you will continue to make the affair uncomfortable.
> 
> Bottom line, if she stays, then she stay under the contitions that you will not be her doormat and you will expose her affair as she continues to disrespect you.
> 
> Or she can move out and hid and try to keep this adultous behavior a secret. Again, she stays..then the affair is fought and exposed.
> 
> She doesn'tknow it but if she stays, the new you will make it harder for her to continue this behavior.



sorry - but im a little confu?ed (hence the i.d. name)....

so are you saying after I confront her... i don't ask her to leave, rather, i stay strong and not cry and all that good stuff - but i let her choose me or him - if me, ok stay - we will stay together - if him, then make her leave (and if she doesn't, then i goto backup plan?)
is that what you are saying?


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## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> not married


Is he involved with a girlfriend?
Reason being if he is you have a 50/50 shot at getting him to ditch your wife if you expose their affair to her.
She will either dump him or try to reconcile.
Women are statistically more likely to reconcile.
Obviously one of her boundaries for reconciliation would be NC with your wife.



> own - both names


That`s tricky.
You have a few options I can think of, none of them great.

You can somehow get her to leave, do you have any leverage over her that would cause her to do this?Can you afford this house by yourself?
You can leave and get your own place if that`s financially feasible while being responsible for the house too.
You can remain in the home with her in an in-house separation.(This option sucks most)



> yes, we all work at a fortune 500 company - she sits ~300 yards away from me, he sits ~1mile (it is a big campus)


Does your company have any policy in place that prohibits inter -employee relationships/infidelity?
Can you use any company policy to get him reprimanded/fired?
This could also be leverage over her to get her the hell out of the house if there is policy against her affair you can use the threat of her job to get her to leave.


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## the guy

Yes.
Your back up plan is willing to just let her go. Making her instantly face the consequences for her dicisions.

Be careful though, once she sees this new confidence, see will tell you what you want hear and continue the affair so continue to validate her commitment.

Sure you are backing her into a corner by asking her to leave and she may leave, but she may stay. whch is is good IMHO. 

The 1st rule is no contact with the OM, if she stays you can keep an eye on her. If she leaves then she is already gone and it truely is time to move on.

So often there is a limbo that I have avoided by making my fWW choose right then and there. A confidence that I need to beable to just let her go. She made the healthy choice to stay and under my terms. 

In your case it can go either way, so if your prepared to let her go then do so, and be prepared for her to call your bluff, but then again she will have to face the consequences.


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## confu?ed

tacoma said:


> Is he involved with a girlfriend?
> Reason being if he is you have a 50/50 shot at getting him to ditch your wife if you expose their affair to her.
> She will either dump him or try to reconcile.
> Women are statistically more likely to reconcile.
> Obviously one of her boundaries for reconciliation would be NC with your wife.
> 
> 
> 
> That`s tricky.
> You have a few options I can think of, none of them great.
> 
> You can somehow get her to leave, do you have any leverage over her that would cause her to do this?Can you afford this house by yourself?
> You can leave and get your own place if that`s financially feasible while being responsible for the house too.
> You can remain in the home with her in an in-house separation.(This option sucks most)
> 
> 
> 
> Does your company have any policy in place that prohibits inter -employee relationships/infidelity?
> Can you use any company policy to get him reprimanded/fired?
> This could also be leverage over her to get her the hell out of the house if there is policy against her affair you can use the threat of her job to get her to leave.


1- OM is single... i think that is part of the attraction from WW... he is free to do what he wants when he wants, and she is stuck in a marriage.

2-can't afford house by myself... can probably afford an apt by myself, but it would be VERY difficult.. i would go live with my dad or sister for a while until we sold the house, then id get my own place 
could do in-house- we have enough bedrooms/bathrooms

3) interesting idea about the company policy - i never thought to look into that (why would i?!?) but i will do that first thing in the morning


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## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> 1- OM is single... i think that is part of the attraction from WW... he is free to do what he wants when he wants, and she is stuck in a marriage.


That really sucks.
When the OM is in a relationship you as the BS have his balls in a vice.



> 2-can't afford house by myself... can probably afford an apt by myself, but it would be VERY difficult.. i would go live with my dad or sister for a while until we sold the house, then id get my own place could do in-house- we have enough bedrooms/bathrooms


In-house is a heart wrenching horrible option but sometimes necessary.
If you want to divorce your best bet is to get the hell away from her ASAP.
If you absolutely can`t get her to leave I`d say your best bet is to go stay with family even though it sucks to be paying the mortgage on a house you aren`t going to benefit from.
You could default into foreclosure.
If I couldn`t get her out I`d probably stay with family or get my own place and refuse to pay the mortgage.
Foreclosure takes forever and she`d be a stressed freak trying to pay the mortgage.
It might get her out.
Or she could move her boyfriend in and he`d have to pay your mortgage.




> 3) interesting idea about the company policy - i never thought to look into that (why would i?!?) but i will do that first thing in the morning


I would think a Fortune 500 would have "Something" in place that could give you leverage but I'm not very knowledgable about such things.


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## the guy

Looking into the co. policy is again...making the affair as uncomfortable and as inconvienent as possible. The point is to get rid of the OM. Making it not worth the effort in continueing the affair.


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## confu?ed

tacoma said:


> In-house is a heart wrenching horrible option but sometimes necessary.
> If you want to divorce your best bet is to get the hell away from her ASAP.
> If you absolutely can`t get her to leave I`d say your best bet is to go stay with family even though it sucks to be paying the mortgage on a house you aren`t going to benefit from.
> You could default into foreclosure.
> If I couldn`t get her out I`d probably stay with family or get my own place and refuse to pay the mortgage.
> Foreclosure takes forever and she`d be a stressed freak trying to pay the mortgage.
> It might get her out.
> Or she could move her boyfriend in and he`d have to pay your mortgage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would think a Fortune 500 would have "Something" in place that could give you leverage but I'm not very knowledgable about such things.


I don't want to forclose... too much cost on the credit score - which i will need if i get my own place! (not to mention Credit Cards and Car loans and etc etc..)

either in-home or living with family would probably be the best bet.... 
but lets see what happens first. 
I am prepared to make the jump, but who knows, maybe she will want to R.... otherwise, ill be getting a D.


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## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> but lets see what happens first.
> I am prepared to make the jump, but who knows, maybe she will want to R.... otherwise, ill be getting a D.


I was under the impression you wanted to D.

You said you were "out of there" if she lied about no contact.

If you want to R the advice is way different man.

The entire thing relies upon "trust but verify".

You need to commit to nothing until you know the depths of her lies and have a system in place to verify her future actions.

You're unlikely to get the real truth from her so you`ll need to get it yourself.

If tomorrow she wants to R and you`re agreeable don`t let her know you`re agreeable right away.

You need to buy some time to discover how bad the lies are.

Tell her you need some time to "find yourself" to stall.


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## warlock07

It won't be R or D. There is an another place in the middle called Limbo aka hell. That is hell. why would she tell you the truth(the extent of their affair) when she stands to gain much more by lying to you? R or D, you can only do that when you have the complete truth.


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## confu?ed

tacoma said:


> I was under the impression you wanted to D.
> 
> You said you were "out of there" if she lied about no contact.
> 
> If you want to R the advice is way different man.
> 
> The entire thing relies upon "trust but verify".
> 
> You need to commit to nothing until you know the depths of her lies and have a system in place to verify her future actions.
> 
> You're unlikely to get the real truth from her so you`ll need to get it yourself.
> 
> If tomorrow she wants to R and you`re agreeable don`t let her know you`re agreeable right away.
> 
> You need to buy some time to discover how bad the lies are.
> 
> Tell her you need some time to "find yourself" to stall.


valid points... i will have to think about this one tonight.. thank you for pointing that out to me.

currently, in general, i guess i feel like if i do the choose speech, and she chooses me, then i will give her the opportunity to R. If she is wishy washy, doesn't choose, or chooses OM, then i will get D.

if she chooses me, then i will stay in the house. If she chooses OM / wishy washy, then i will either move to family or in-house separate... 
i will ask her to move out that night - if she doesn't - i will goto backup plan and goto my sisters

how does that sound?

(btw, thank you for being a sounding board tonight, i am finding this very helpful to lay out a plan prior to me trying to goto sleep!)


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## tacoma

warlock07 said:


> It won't be R or D. There is an another place in the middle called Limbo aka hell. That is hell. why would she tell you the truth(the extent of their affair) when she stands to gain much more by lying to you? R or D, you can only do that when you have the complete truth.


I disagree warlock.

He can D now if he likes, in fact more "truth" is even perhaps just going to make his heartbreak worse if he decides to D.

She`s broken his boundaries and cheated, that`s enough justification to D as it stands.

If he wants R though he`s going to have to have that truth as a gauge to her sincerity and in order to quench the morbid curiosity that usually arises.
To silence the questions that will eat at him for ..a long time.
The questions will be replaced with heartache at the truth he discovers ...ironically.

Edit:

I totally agree with your limbo comment.
That`s why I advise him not to commit to R right away.
This way he`ll have time to find some of that truth on his own and maybe avoid much of that limbo.


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## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> valid points... i will have to think about this one tonight.. thank you for pointing that out to me.
> 
> currently, in general, i guess i feel like if i do the choose speech, and she chooses me, then i will give her the opportunity to R. If she is wishy washy, doesn't choose, or chooses OM, then i will get D.
> 
> if she chooses me, then i will stay in the house. If she chooses OM / wishy washy, then i will either move to family or in-house separate...
> i will ask her to move out that night - if she doesn't - i will goto backup plan and goto my sisters
> 
> how does that sound?


Sounds like you have a good plan for what you have to work with.



> (btw, thank you for being a sounding board tonight, i am finding this very helpful to lay out a plan prior to me trying to goto sleep!)


You`re welcome.

If the result is R make sure to post back here because believe it or not this is the easy part.

R is a serious ***** my friend and takes a strong constitution to get through it.

You`ll need the support this place can offer.


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## the guy

Sorry to disagree with T- but you do not need to find your self but you are confident in no longer tolorating her curant behavior and will be taking the nessasary steps in moving on if she continues.

Granted this crap is tough but to side step your belief in what you diserve with regard to you happiness only b/c of your credit score, well then let her continue to behave the way she is behaving and go under ground and secure your self and when you got the dough, then confront her.

But, confronting and telling her your pissed that she's cheating , but can't do anything thing b/c your finacially straped well then you played your hand.

Confidence....no matter emotionally or finacially speaking you need to have this in order to show her you can move on with out her if she continues. A perception that will lead her to believe that it will be her that will have the only consequences.

I'm assuming that she sees you finacialy secure. If that is not the case then it would be wise to get your finacise in order.......again confronting with the up most confidencein willing to let her go if she wants to continue her behavior.

The last thing you want is her calling your bluff, thinking you aint going any where. Again just more disrespect you will face from her.


----------



## tacoma

Oh, and she makes her choice right there on the spot.

She gets no time to think about it.

If she can`t decide then she has made a choice and R should be off the table.

Also, you can`t be giving these kinds of ultimatums and not go through with them but they need to be given.

It`s a damned if you do damned if you don`t scenario.


----------



## confu?ed

tacoma said:


> Sounds like you have a good plan for what you have to work with.
> 
> 
> 
> You`re welcome.
> 
> If the result is R make sure to post back here because believe it or not this is the easy part.
> 
> R is a serious ***** my friend and takes a strong constitution to get through it.
> 
> You`ll need the support this place can offer.



Again, I appreciate it... 
im going to try to sleep now, but ill be back on here in the morning when I get to work (in between looking for company policies!!!) to read some other inspirational stories from others!!!


----------



## warlock07

Use the company policy as a last resort. 

But before that I suggest that you find out the entire truth. Snoop/manipulate if you have to. She has lost her right for privacy when she is lying and cheating on you in a marriage. Install a keylogger if you can. When it comes to matter of your heart, you have to be ruthless. You cannot reconcile based on half truths.


----------



## aug

I'll submit another perspective. 

Your wife had been dating since she was 14. You were her jump-to guy after her 3rd relationship breakdown. In some ways, she never had to be alone or had a single life.

She already has the next person lined up.

It wont be a big deal for her to move on.

If you stayed with her, you'll always be uneasy with her in the future. She has not established her emotional self-sufficiency, I would think. And obviously she wont with you because she has in her head she has moved on.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to have some time to yourself so that your emotions can stabilized/detached. This way you can make your decision with a clearer head.


----------



## the guy

aug,
You make a great point, that I fogot, make no disicions until you have time to clear head and think it through.

My biggest point/ perspective is to be confident that at the end of the the day what his wife is doing is unacceptable and c- makes it clear that he will not tolorate it.

The best way to approach the her leaving busines is to see what way she goes when he confronts......[her] "do you want me to leave" [him] " do what you think is best for a healthy marriage"

OR

[him] " do you want to continue with this affiar then leave"

I think her answer says it all after that..................


----------



## Sunshine22

So...what happened?


----------



## lordmayhem

People just don't get it. "I want to find myself" and temporary separation ALWAYS means they want to continue the affair WITHOUT any distractions. OM is local, they both work together, the OP has been out of the house. The totality of the situation indicates this has already gone PA, multiple times most likely, unprotected sex too. 

Married 4 years, but already in a 2 YEAR AFFAIR. Big time Trickle Truth here. And you possibly want R? You don't have kids yet. How much more if she does this again when the kids eventually come? You don't even know how much more difficult this situation is going to be once you have children.

Get. Out. Now.


----------



## snap

lordmayhem said:


> People just don't get it. "I want to find myself" and temporary separation ALWAYS means they want to continue the affair WITHOUT any distractions.


:iagree:

"Need some space", well, enlist to astronauts then. A marriage is a marriage, am not aware of a single real-life example where separation helped anything.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Don't wait , let HR know he is having an affair with your wife and using company resource and time . Both may be disciplined , warned or fired though in my experience few have been fired . Your wife has to leave her job for any R to occur . If she chooses to seperate file for D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jonesey

snap said:


> :iagree:
> 
> "Need some space", well, enlist to astronauts then. A marriage is a marriage, am not aware of a single real-life example where separation helped anything.


I dont get it either. I mean most offen the claim
there unsure if the can get love back.

And signs 6 Months apartment lease..*sigh*
I mean how would earth would getting love back for someone
By thinking about it..How would that work


----------



## Jonesey

I dont say this.Because im so macho,a real man.Way.

But seriously! I will never get this.
Why no husband, ever swings by wife´s job

And just say WTF DUDE seriously ??

I will most likley never get that i guess.


----------



## Chaparral

How close a friend was this guy supposed to of been? How long havethe two of you known him?


----------



## confu?ed

chapparal said:


> How close a friend was this guy supposed to of been? How long havethe two of you known him?


she was friends with him first - met ~2 years ago in grad school.

I met him maybe 1 year ago - 
we started hanging out like 6 months ago

i haven't hung out with him since november


----------



## confu?ed

So i know the route I will go if she is wishy wahsy (chooses him) or straight out chooses him...

what do i do if she says "i choose you"???


----------



## Initfortheduration

Ok, first off, you are in a codependent relationship. She is the problem and you are the fixer. Just how do you think she is going to get along without a "handler"?  Ok, now that you see the problem, whats the answer? Do absolutely nothing for her. No fixing of her problems, no comforting and NO EASING OF HER MIND. If she asks, tell her "fixing your problems and issues is no longer my job. Figure it out for yourself". You have been married for four years. Complete 180! "You" are now your focus. Your happiness, not hers. If you're like others in codependent relationships, your biggest chore will probably be in "NOT" helping her. 

I will say this. You are blessed that you have no children with her. I can tell, that if you did have kids, you would be battling from day one. She will be looking for love and acceptance "FROM" the child, and will do what is required to get it. That means indulgence, and undermining your relationship with the child (probably sub conscience). It would be crazy going through the child's adolescence. You would be trying to raise an independent person, she will be trying to raise a dependent person to fill her needs. Can you see how that will work out?


----------



## Chaparral

confu?ed said:


> So i know the route I will go if she is wishy wahsy (chooses him) or straight out chooses him...
> 
> what do i do if she says "i choose you"???


Read here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Also here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


----------



## Chaparral

She has to write a no contact letter, give you access to all her passwords to all phone, email accts etc. Complete transparency. There's more. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## JustaJerk

> give you access to all her passwords to all phone, email accts etc.


Basically play babysitter to an adult... _[email protected]#$ that_!


----------



## confu?ed

i feel like i have a hole in my stomach....
ive gone through multiple senarios in my head!!!
i just don't know what's going to happen!


----------



## Shaggy

My advice is to not ask her to choose.

Instead tell her that you are gone. If she wants you to consider coming back - he goes and stays completely gone.

This takes the power away from her - in that you're not asking - you're telling her the rules.


----------



## snap

What Shaggy says. Assume control over the situation.


----------



## tacoma

Have you had that confrontation yet Confused?


----------



## Jonesey

Shaggy said:


> My advice is to not ask her to choose.
> 
> Instead tell her that you are gone. If she wants you to consider coming back - he goes and stays completely gone.
> 
> This takes the power away from her - in that you're not asking - you're telling her the rules.


I agree with the advice not to ask.She must come to that
conclusion her self.Otherwise rec become´s so much harder.


----------



## Stryker

Be prepared for more broken promises and more new age enlightenment crap


--The Finding oneself and Oshoic tantrik stuffs, Meditation etc are merely the same track of Infidelity..what they try to find "Self Realization" Kundalini etc is Relief from Sexual Frustration...by further Sexual Indulgence..


----------



## confu?ed

so... we had the "chat"

i asked her to choose, him or me.
she responded with "i want neither"... "i can't choose either until i figure myself out"...

so, i told her that it would be the smart thing for her to pack up her stuff and go....

fast forward to 3 hours later - lots of talking - lots of tears (sorry, i know i wasn't sposed to cry, but come'on, this stuff is emotional)... she left. 

I gave her the last chance ultimatum (probably another mistake) that said - if you call OM, talk to OM, text OM, anything OM, i will divorce you. And i asked for her facebook password...

She said - "don't worry about my password, im going to call him right now".

Sealed the deal - 
D it is.

researching lawyers right now... any tips??!?!


----------



## Chaparral

confu?ed said:


> so... we had the "chat"
> 
> i asked her to choose, him or me.
> she responded with "i want neither"... "i can't choose either until i figure myself out"...
> 
> so, i told her that it would be the smart thing for her to pack up her stuff and go....
> 
> fast forward to 3 hours later - lots of talking - lots of tears (sorry, i know i wasn't sposed to cry, but come'on, this stuff is emotional)... she left.
> 
> I gave her the last chance ultimatum (probably another mistake) that said - if you call OM, talk to OM, text OM, anything OM, i will divorce you. And i asked for her facebook password...
> 
> She said - "don't worry about my password, im going to call him right now".
> 
> Sealed the deal -
> D it is.
> 
> researching lawyers right now... any tips??!?!


The 180
April 15 2011 at 8:48 AM Ami (Login Amistandingstill)
Healing Moderator 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


----------



## Chaparral

Did she pack her stuff?

Did you check your companies policy on office affairs?


----------



## confu?ed

she packed some stuff... i didn't go review that yet, but she def. had a bag.

I tried looking about the office affairs, but i couldn't find anything.
to be honest, i am not sure what that would do right now.


----------



## Chaparral

confu?ed said:


> she packed some stuff... i didn't go review that yet, but she def. had a bag.
> 
> I tried looking about the office affairs, but i couldn't find anything.
> to be honest, i am not sure what that would do right now.


If your "friend" thought he might lose his job it might mean a lot.

At this point your not sure how deep this relationship is right? If you can you needto hack her email texts etc. Unless you just want to go ahead with divorce.


----------



## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> so... we had the "chat"
> 
> i asked her to choose, him or me.
> she responded with "i want neither"... "i can't choose either until i figure myself out"...
> 
> so, i told her that it would be the smart thing for her to pack up her stuff and go....
> 
> fast forward to 3 hours later - lots of talking - lots of tears (sorry, i know i wasn't sposed to cry, but come'on, this stuff is emotional)... she left.
> 
> I gave her the last chance ultimatum (probably another mistake) that said - if you call OM, talk to OM, text OM, anything OM, i will divorce you. And i asked for her facebook password...
> 
> She said - "don't worry about my password, im going to call him right now".
> 
> Sealed the deal -
> D it is.
> 
> researching lawyers right now... any tips??!?!


You made no mistakes there.

Well done.

Do the 180 Chap posted, make it your new religion, follow it like dogma.

Hire a shark, seriously she`s not remorseful and very full of herself. You need a nasty lawyer.
You need to have her served ASAP, the divorce papers may enable her to "figure herself out" very quickly.
Talking about it is one thing, holding those papers in your hand is a whole different matter.

If you haven`t already start protecting money right now this minute online if you can. First thing Monday morning at the latest.

Did you check for any fraternization policies at work?

You lucked out with her leaving but the first thing a decent lawyer is going to tell her is to move back in, the house is in her name too after all

Keep checking your testicles, you`re going to need to be very ****ing alpha from here on out ( Not that you haven`t already but the emotional toll this takes is a *****)

Hit the gym, go out with friends, keep busy, anything to take your mind off of it during the course of your days is a good thing.

I`m very sorry she went this way confused.

She may come back, you may want to take her back and that`s just fine but you cannot make it easy for her.
She`s going to have a lot to prove before she can get back into your life.


----------



## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> she packed some stuff... i didn't go review that yet, but she def. had a bag.


You do know where she is right now don`t you?

You may want to do some checking just in case she wants back in so you can test her sincerity when she does.

If you know where the OM lives maybe not a bad idea to run a drive by to see if her car is there for certain.

Check those phone records again, if there`s no chatter between them since she left that`s because they`re together.

Remember what she said?

"I choose neither".

I`d bet my kids college fund she`s balling her eyes out on his couch right now.

She did choose and it wasn`t you.
NEVER forget that.

Edit:
Never mind, don`t do the drive by and don`t even check the phone records.

Stick to the 180 you know she`s with him right now anyway.
No sense in rubbing your own nose in it.


----------



## happyman64

Confused,

Let her go. Work on yourself.

Your wayward wife is very selfish. You are better off without her.

Your wife is also a big liar. Her finding herself is finding herself right into another relationship. Probably went physical too.

Definitely see an attorney. You should act as fast as you can to protect yourself. I would file for a divorce asap to throw her off balance. Also let your inlaws know about the contact she has had with om and how long it has been going on.

Use the 180 to improve. And you need to go dark on her. 

I would go talk to your human resources dept. about their nonsense as well. 

Good Luck and Keep posting. At least you see her true colors. Your wife is a cheater and a coward. You can do better. Go find a woman who knows who she is. I love that excuse!


----------



## confu?ed

tacoma said:


> You made no mistakes there.
> 
> Well done.
> 
> Do the 180 Chap posted, make it your new religion, follow it like dogma.
> 
> Hire a shark, seriously she`s not remorseful and very full of herself. You need a nasty lawyer.
> You need to have her served ASAP, the divorce papers may enable her to "figure herself out" very quickly.
> Talking about it is one thing, holding those papers in your hand is a whole different matter.
> 
> If you haven`t already start protecting money right now this minute online if you can. First thing Monday morning at the latest.
> 
> Did you check for any fraternization policies at work?
> 
> You lucked out with her leaving but the first thing a decent lawyer is going to tell her is to move back in, the house is in her name too after all
> 
> Keep checking your testicles, you`re going to need to be very ****ing alpha from here on out ( Not that you haven`t already but the emotional toll this takes is a *****)
> 
> Hit the gym, go out with friends, keep busy, anything to take your mind off of it during the course of your days is a good thing.
> 
> I`m very sorry she went this way confused.
> 
> She may come back, you may want to take her back and that`s just fine but you cannot make it easy for her.
> She`s going to have a lot to prove before she can get back into your life.


im going to read the 180 steps everyday... im sure it is a great way to feel empowered.

..if I start moving money, wouldn't that lead to bigger problems down the road? or should i move half? i don't want to jump the gun on anything that could get me in trouble....


she is very remorseful - very confused - very unsure of herself.
like i said in the OP, she just doesn't know who she is anymore. But I do know this for certain - i gave her the option to choose me - the option to work on it together - the option to lean on me for support - and she still left. So that just confirms it for me.

I already told her before she left what it would take to come back to me. I said we will do the NC letter. You will give me all of your passwords and accounts. The problem is - "OM knows me better, and I wouldn't be here without his support" ("talked me off the ledge")- I am still holding to my gun here tho- any contact and it is sealed.


----------



## confu?ed

tacoma said:


> You do know where she is right now don`t you?
> 
> You may want to do some checking just in case she wants back in so you can test her sincerity when she does.
> 
> If you know where the OM lives maybe not a bad idea to run a drive by to see if her car is there for certain.
> 
> Check those phone records again, if there`s no chatter between them since she left that`s because they`re together.
> 
> Remember what she said?
> 
> "I choose neither".
> 
> I`d bet my kids college fund she`s balling her eyes out on his couch right now.
> 
> She did choose and it wasn`t you.
> NEVER forget that.
> 
> Edit:
> Never mind, don`t do the drive by and don`t even check the phone records.
> 
> Stick to the 180 you know she`s with him right now anyway.
> No sense in rubbing your own nose in it.


i don't know where she is, but i know 1 of 2 places. I have already talked to the Inlaws and they said she was going there, so i guess ill believe them. They have been supportive of us our entire relationship. I can't thank them enough.

Im not going to drive anywhere. I don't need to.
I will check the records in the morning. (im not going to stress myself out further tonight.) que sera sera, right?


----------



## happyman64

C,

She is in the "fog". The OM knows her better.

Leave the two cheaters together. They deserve each other.

Split your money. Go see an attorney. The D papers might wake her up, might not.

But do you really want to be her Plan B.

The choice is yours. But it is time to Alpha Man. Improve you. Work on bettering you. 

Go dark on her. You will always be the fixer. That is no marriage.


----------



## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> ..if I start moving money, wouldn't that lead to bigger problems down the road? or should i move half? i don't want to jump the gun on anything that could get me in trouble....


Sorry.
Yes don`t take more than half but you do want to take that half because she very well might take it all.



> she is very remorseful - very confused - very unsure of herself.
> like i said in the OP, she just doesn't know who she is anymore. But I do know this for certain - i gave her the option to choose me - the option to work on it together - the option to lean on me for support - and she still left. So that just confirms it for me.


My friend she`s not remorseful.
She`s selfish.
Tears and words do not equate to remorse.
Here`s the best advice you can be given right now...
Actions..not words.
She`s saying one thing and doing another.
Completely ignore her words focus like a laser on her actions and you`ll know where her head is at all times.




> I already told her before she left what it would take to come back to me. I said we will do the NC letter. You will give me all of your passwords and accounts. The problem is - "OM knows me better, and I wouldn't be here without his support" ("talked me off the ledge")- I am still holding to my gun here tho- any contact and it is sealed.


She`s with him right now.
You think I`d wager that college fund lightly?

Why do you think her first response was "I`m calling him right now"?

She wouldn`t be here without HIS support?
"He knows her better"?
WTF confused?
You`re her husband, what are you chopped liver?

She`s dissing you and protecting him.
This is not the action of a remorseful woman.
This is the action of a selfish wayward lost in the fog.

Someone get confused a link to "The Fog" thread.

180
Protect the money
Shark lawyer
Divorce papers ASAP

In that order and focus on nothing else until these goals are met and meet them fast because you can be sure she will herself once the OM starts guiding her fogged mind and he`s doing that right now this minute.

Let her go.

Don`t forget to keep those testicles checked, I`m serious you need to be John ****ing Wayne for the foreseeable future.


----------



## tacoma

confu?ed said:


> i don't know where she is, but i know 1 of 2 places. I have already talked to the Inlaws and they said she was going there, so i guess ill believe them. They have been supportive of us our entire relationship. I can't thank them enough.


That`s a mistake.
Don`t trust the in-laws no matter how kind and loving they`ve been to you during the relationship.

They have a genetic priority to protect her over anyone and they will.
I`ve seen it a hundred times.
It`s often crushing to the BS who thought he/she had a good relationship with the in-laws.




> Im not going to drive anywhere. I don't need to.
> I will check the records in the morning. (im not going to stress myself out further tonight.) que sera sera, right?



Don`t check the records.
Don`t drive by.
Don`t call her 
Don`t talk to her
Pretend you never knew her name.
When you do have to talk to her it`s all business.

Read the 180 and live the 180.
It will get you through this.

You should read shamwows thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ls-lot-sex-life-has-stalled-worried-help.html

His actions are a textbook model of what to do in your situation.
He wavers at first, you haven`t.
Keep it that way.


----------



## Jonesey

tacoma said:


> Sorry.
> Yes don`t take more than half but you do want to take that half because she very well might take it all.
> 
> 
> 
> My friend she`s not remorseful.
> She`s selfish.
> Tears and words do not equate to remorse.
> Here`s the best advice you can be given right now...
> Actions..not words.
> She`s saying one thing and doing another.
> Completely ignore her words focus like a laser on her actions and you`ll know where her head is at all times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She`s with him right now.
> You think I`d wager that college fund lightly?
> 
> Why do you think her first response was "I`m calling him right now"?
> 
> She wouldn`t be here without HIS support?
> "He knows her better"?
> WTF confused?
> _You`re her husband, what are_ *you chopped liver?*
> 
> _Sadly in many case.The do think that..Like here_
> 
> 
> She`s dissing you and protecting him.
> This is not the action of a remorseful woman.
> This is the action of a selfish wayward lost in the fog.
> 
> Someone get confused a link to "The Fog" thread.
> 
> 180
> Protect the money
> Shark lawyer
> Divorce papers ASAP
> 
> In that order and focus on nothing else until these goals are met and meet them fast because you can be sure she will herself once the OM starts guiding her fogged mind and he`s doing that right now this minute.
> 
> Let her go.
> 
> Don`t forget to keep those testicles checked, I`m serious you need to be John ****ing Wayne for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

happyman64 said:


> C,
> 
> She is in the "fog". The OM knows her better.
> 
> Leave the two cheaters together. They deserve each other.
> 
> Split your money. Go see an attorney. The D papers might wake her up, might not.
> 
> But do you really want to be her Plan B.
> 
> The choice is yours. But it is time to Alpha Man. Improve you. Work on bettering you.
> 
> Go dark on her. You will always be the fixer. That is no marriage.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


Why you want to live your life with a person who dont love you, who consider you as a second quality material, who dont respect you, whoes priority is something other than you and your family.

Dumb her man, let she find herself by screwing OM, when she finished finding her out dont be there to take her back. If you take her back she will need to find out herself with some other OM. It will continue as a cycle for ever.
Man up man stand on your feet, dont look at her for support, she wont support you, she is not your wife anymore.


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## tacoma

Any update confused?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArmyofJuan

tacoma said:


> That`s a mistake.
> Don`t trust the in-laws no matter how kind and loving they`ve been to you during the relationship.
> 
> They have a genetic priority to protect her over anyone and they will.
> I`ve seen it a hundred times.
> It`s often crushing to the BS who thought he/she had a good relationship with the in-laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Don`t check the records. VT
> Don`t drive by.
> Don`t call her
> Don`t talk to her
> Pretend you never knew her name.
> When you do have to talk to her it`s all business.
> 
> Read the 180 and live the 180.
> It will get you through this.
> 
> You should read shamwows thread.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ls-lot-sex-life-has-stalled-worried-help.html
> 
> His actions are a textbook model of what to do in your situation.
> He wavers at first, you haven`t.
> Keep it that way.


This.
The goal is to go full steam D and don't deviate.

What she is doing now is not important. Your goal is no longer to break up the A but protect yourself. She just as well have slapped you in the face when she said she was calling the OM. She disrespected you so you need to now stand up for yourself like a real man. You have to do this for you, not her.

File and do not talk to her directly anymore. Communicate through a third party and only about the D. Also let it be know that an R is off the table, for now and forever.

You do that and you`ll be slapping her in the face with reality. 

Don't make excuses for her or try to sympathize with her. She rejected you and the marriage so now you reject her back. 

Thats how I ended up getting my W back after playing the nice guy with 2 false Rs for a year but that's just me.


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## Eli-Zor

ArmyofJuan said:


> This.
> The goal is to go full steam D and don't deviate.
> 
> What she is doing now is not important. Your goal is no longer to break up the A but protect yourself. She just as well have slapped you in the face when she said she was calling the OM. She disrespected you so you need to now stand up for yourself like a real man. You have to do this for you, not her.
> 
> File and do not talk to her directly anymore. Communicate through a third party and only about the D. Also let it be know that an R is off the table, for now and forever.
> 
> You do that and you`ll be slapping her in the face with reality.
> 
> Don't make excuses for her or try to sympathize with her. She rejected you and the marriage so now you reject her back.
> 
> Thats how I ended up getting my W back after playing the nice guy with 2 false Rs for a year but that's just me.


Good advice , read it again and again.

Don't blink, don't waver , don't give in. This is the best way forward for yourself , your wife will come round or not . She is no longer your problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confu?ed

So she came over this morning to tell me that she is choosing me.. after some discussion of what she needs to do to come badk (nc, honesty, etc) she ends up admitting to me that she fvkd OM last weekend.... yep. Devistated. Focusing on myslef, but can't help the anger and discusting thoughts that keep coming into my head.... thank you all for your support
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Don't commit to anything right now. Let her know that it is now you who doesn't know if you want her in your life or not. This is not a petty tit for tat maneuver but a way for you to calm the overwhelming emotional ordeal that she has put you through with her betrayal. Believe me, you are going to need this because the emotional roller coaster will whip saw you no end.


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## Chaparral

Good luck and prayers


----------



## Chaparral

That was one of the biggest examples I have ever seen of "Good News Bad News" Did she say why they got together and then she picked you?
Sorry this post is so long but people keep requesting it so I am sure it helps.

Print this off and go over it with your wife unitl she gets it:



Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularl


----------



## warlock07

confu?ed said:


> So she came over this morning to tell me that she is choosing me.. after some discussion of what she needs to do to come badk (nc, honesty, etc) she ends up admitting to me that she fvkd OM last weekend.... yep. Devistated. Focusing on myslef, but can't help the anger and discusting thoughts that keep coming into my head.... thank you all for your support
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



How nice of her. She chose you. Your life is complete now.

It would devastate her ego if you can say to her face


> "I don't choose you. I don't need you. I don't even like you anymore. You are not my first choice now. I'll get back to you if I cannot find anyone better."



I'm thinking that this won't be the last time. She kicked you out of your house so she could fvck him? She set you up beautifully to leave the house. Just so you know. they did it more than once. You will find it out sooner or later.


----------



## happyman64

Confused,

Now you know why we said do not move out. Move back in.

Your wife is some piece of work. 

You really have to take some time and decide what you want.

But do yourself a favor. Get tough with your wife. She does not deserve any of your respect or love at this time.

On another note, take care of the OM. He is scum. You should fix him at work.

Two pieces of work.

I truly feel for you. You have been way too nice and respectful. She has really lied and tt'd you. 

She may choose you but I look forward to your decision. Now the power is back in your hands.

Choose wisely and my prayers for you tonight.

HM64

PS
Make her get an std test this week and a few months from now. And do not be so shy to out her actions to her entire family. Then you will see how remorseful she is.....


----------



## tacoma

morituri said:


> Don't commit to anything right now. Let her know that it is now you who doesn't know if you want her in your life or not. This is not a petty tit for tat maneuver but a way for you to calm the overwhelming emotional ordeal that she has put you through with her betrayal. Believe me, you are going to need this because the emotional roller coaster will whip saw you no end.


This..do this!!

Don`t commit to anything yet.

You`re heads got to be spinning, a a day or two at least before you seriously commit anything to her.


----------



## MrK

confu?ed said:


> ...married for 4, no children.


To say I envy you would say I have regrets about the three most important things in my life. But as far as dealing with my loveless marriage...


----------



## MrK

And after 4 years of marriage she dips her toe into the infidelity waters and faces no consequences. Somebody tell him what happens in a few months.


----------



## Beowulf

MrK said:


> And after 4 years of marriage she dips her toe into the infidelity waters and faces no consequences. Somebody tell him what happens in a few months.


I may be dating myself but anyone else remember the "Hokey Pokey"? You put your left toe in, you take your left toe out, you put your left toe in and shake it all about, you do the Hokey Pokey and your turn yourself around, that's what it's all about.

Then it goes on to the foot, the leg, the butt, etc.

That is what is going to happen. She is going to do the Hokey Pokey Infidelity Dance all over his head. I wonder what body part she'll be up to before he eventually realizes that the partner she's dancing with is not him and she's Hokey Poking another man.


----------



## Shaggy

confu?ed said:


> So she came over this morning to tell me that she is choosing me.. after some discussion of what she needs to do to come badk (nc, honesty, etc) she ends up admitting to me that she fvkd OM last weekend.... yep. Devistated. Focusing on myslef, but can't help the anger and discusting thoughts that keep coming into my head.... thank you all for your support
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then why would you take her back? Mshe did nothing but lie and gaslghting you so she could fvck him. That's not what someone who chooses you would have done. That is what someone who no longer deserves your compassion does.

Listen to your gut, kick her to the curb and tell her to enjoy living there. File for divorce and give nothing to her without a fight because she deserves nothing. Not on darn thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

confu?ed said:


> So she came over this morning to tell me that she is choosing me.. after some discussion of what she needs to do to come badk (nc, honesty, etc) she ends up admitting to me that she fvkd OM last weekend.... yep. Devistated. Focusing on myslef, but can't help the anger and discusting thoughts that keep coming into my head.... thank you all for your support
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The correct response to her is to tell her, that you choose you too, and not her. She can go swim with the fishes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## snap

If you let it slip right now, she will continue to see him. She feels in control of the situation.

Just so that you know. There should be hard consequences to her, she can't just get away with "sorry" for betrayal like this. Right now she feels as if she has the liberty of choice and done you a favor.


----------



## Halien

confu?ed said:


> So she came over this morning to tell me that she is choosing me.. after some discussion of what she needs to do to come badk (nc, honesty, etc) she ends up admitting to me that she fvkd OM last weekend.... yep. Devistated. Focusing on myslef, but can't help the anger and discusting thoughts that keep coming into my head.... thank you all for your support
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


All that mumbo jumbo about "she has lost herself" is just code for "I'm bored with you and maybe I'll find another man". She found the other man, gave herself to him, and now the hormone rush is sated for a while. Funny thing is that she could've chosen you before going through this cyclical pattern of infidelity, but she didn't. Instead, she knows that you bought the classic tale long ago, when you bought the excuse of her "finding herself", instead of giving her a mirror, introducing her to herself and reminding her that she is no longer a thirteen year old. The pattern will repeat itself again, because there are no consequences to choosing you as the back up plan. Sure, you can be Confu?ed, but hope you learn that "I've lost myself" is always code for "I don't want to be married". You can tell her instead that she has shown her true colors, and file the papers. If she really wants you, she'll show you something real enough to make you stop the proceedings. Take a look at a few people who have been kicked out of their marriage home. I'll almost guarantee that you won't find a single one of them who can pine about "losing themselves". They're too busy trying to save their marriage.


----------



## Initfortheduration

If she isn't contrite, she is only doing for financial security and will send it underground or just find some other guy. Did she f#$k him in your bed?


----------



## vickyyy

confu?ed said:


> So she came over this morning to tell me that she is choosing me.. after some discussion of what she needs to do to come badk (nc, honesty, etc) she ends up admitting to me that she fvkd OM last weekend.... yep. Devistated. Focusing on myslef, but can't help the anger and discusting thoughts that keep coming into my head.... thank you all for your support
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I dont think she has chose u, i think she has chosen both of u and OM.bcos she is a cake eater.


----------



## calif_hope

I have to agree with those calling BS on her.....I bet the OM intent was fun and games, no relationship and marriage and your wife new it. She also knew that you wanted to keep the marriage intact. She f##ked the OM 1. Knowing the she was going to CHOSE you and 2. That she had free pass from you.

Your being had, she manipulated you...if I was you I would tell her your not an option to be chosen.....

God I know she is going to get away with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kallan Pavithran

She found out herself when OM fu*ked her, Ask her what was there on the Di*k of OM to give her an epiphany to choose you, was that a magic stick.
Is this epiphany that you can be used as a doormat for future and is a cuckold husband. so in future when ever she find herself lost, she can fool you to fu*k around with anyone.
She is a clever lady, to say first and make you feel that she lost something and came back after Fu*king around to her heart full. 

She first choose you and then decided to Fu*K OM,this shows her respect for you and your marriage, do you think this was the only time they did, never, I will never believe her.

Ask her when she is going to loose herself next, will it take only few months or a year. Expect the worst soon, so that you can pack your bags.


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## tacoma

Confused,

It's getting a little harsh in here huh?

They have a point.

You can't let her simply come back and sweep it under the rug.

She has to earn, if she's not willing to work hard to have you she's not worth having and she'll just do it again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## confu?ed

tacoma said:


> Confused,
> 
> It's getting a little harsh in here huh?
> 
> They have a point.
> 
> You can't let her simply come back and sweep it under the rug.
> 
> She has to earn, if she's not willing to work hard to have you she's not worth having and she'll just do it again
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It isn't too harsh for me. I appreciate every single comment that everyone is making, so please, keep it up!!!!

so ill fill you in with some other details (sorry i didn't write more yesterday, i was too busy trying not to throw up.)

So she called me on Saturday ("Chat Day" +1) and said that she wanted to talk on Wednesday. (Wednesday is the day she is getting her hormone tests back). I said fine, you know where I am and you know where I stand. 

Instead of waiting until Wednesday, she called me Sunday morning and wanted to talk. I said, fine, come over. 

So thats when she said that "I choose you". I said, Great - there are a few things we need to do to move forward - NC letter, accounts, etc...
Since it was Superbowl Sunday, I already had plans to goto my brothers for the game. She knew this and said that she didn't want to go there, instead she was going to goto the OM's Superbowl party!!!!!! (talk about actions speaking louder than words, eh?!?!??!)

As the coversation continued...
Her: we need to really work on our communication and be able to ask the right questions and not be afraid of each other".

Me:well, there is still one question that you haven't answered, "have you had sex with OM"? 

Her: If I answer this question, i fear that it will make you divorce me

Me: so its a yes? When??? -
Response: Last weekend (when i was living at her parents)

Me: how many times
Her: just once (yea, we all know this is _another_ lie)


I left to goto the store to buy things for SBParty and she was gone by the time I got back


----------



## snap

It doesn't sound very much like her choosing you, does it?


----------



## Beowulf

So she's still lying and chooses to go over the OM's house for a party. Yeah, I bet she partied hearty. Time for a D fella. This one is too far gone.


----------



## Almostrecovered

"I choose you!! After I go to his superbowl party!!"


----------



## confu?ed

Almostrecovered said:


> "I choose you!! After I go to his superbowl party!!"


it says choo choo and there is a picture of a train on it!!!! (classic simpsons episode, btw! thank you for that haha)


----------



## tacoma

She's not interested in her marriage at all.

Any contact with the OM is a dealbreaker.

Have her served D papers and see if that wakes her up but her response to your feelings about this is a serious statement.

I'd file those papers and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jnj express

Hey Confused----do you really think, you can end up with this woman, in any kind of a decent/normal/happy mge.-----Your life as long as she is anywhere near you is gonna containa vision of him inside of her----your sub--conscious is not gonna let you forget that---she will now be the trigger for misery, for you, for perhaps the rest of your life, and for sure for a good long while into your future.

Your wife knew what rode on her actions---the future of your mge., the future of a possible family----and what did she decide to do---she chose him over you

There is only one place for you to go with all of this----you know what it is

If you have one ounce, one fricking ounce of self respect left to yourself----YOU WILL DELETE THIS WOMAN FROM YOUR LIFE AND MOVE ON---and by delete, I mean, you have had your LAST face to face with her.

She knew exactly what she was doing every step of the way, she knew the consequences, she knew the nuclear winter she would unleash, and she still chose to allow him to go where, by her own vows, only YOU are allowed----there is nothing to think about on your part

If you do anything but D., you will make your already miserable existence, a life of triggers, images, and just plain horror.

How nice of her to choose you---bottom line was she knew he was basically not H., material, and probably couldn't handle her in a marital situation, but "oh my" he was good enuff to have sex with.

Time for you to man up-----your mge., is over.


----------



## aug

It seems to me that she considers you her enabler. The lack of caring and respect she has for you is interesting.

No kids, should be easy for you to move on.

What do you think is holding you back?


----------



## CH

I hope you finally see that she's only taking you back as the fallback guy. I'm pretty sure the OM has told her she can stay around as a F-buddy but he's not footing the bill to keep her.

File for a divorce and get away from her, just unbelievable how she could say that she can't go with you (after choosing you) to your brother's SB party but she's headed to the OM's house for his.

The next time she calls, tell her that she can talk to your lawyer from now on, there is nothing more to discuss. You gave her a final choice and she gave you a BS answer to cover her bases just in case one or the other doesn't work out.

BTW, no kids = she hits the curb easier when your boots connect to her behind.


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## warlock07

confu?ed, whats the plan? Do you see yourself without her? or do you miss her?


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## TDSC60

warlock07 said:


> confu?ed, whats the plan? Do you see yourself without her? or do you miss her?


I think that the question is - Can confused see himself forgiving the lies, deception, and lack of respect? Can he forget the slap in his face she just gave him by going to OM's house for a party immediately after telling confused she had sex w/ OM over the weekend. 

I could not stay with this women. No love. No respect. No remorse. Time to get out.

She can move in with her parents now.


----------



## SprucHub

Confu?ed - sounds like she is in love with him, but he won't commit. Although it is crude, were they in your house when they did it? If so, that was likely just for the added thrill of disrespecting you - he is single - on top of playing a game where they get you to move out. Picture if her parents knew why you were really at their house. It is one thing to fall for someone else (which can hurt a spouse's pride), it is entirely something else to attack your spouse's dignity. She went to his SB party after saying she chose you? That is not something a neutral, objective 3rd party would buy. Get tested and tell her to get an STD test.


----------



## warlock07

TDSC60 said:


> I think that the question is - Can confused see himself forgiving the lies, deception, and lack of respect? Can he forget the slap in his face she just gave him by going to OM's house for a party immediately after telling confused she had sex w/ OM over the weekend.
> 
> I could not stay with this women. No love. No respect. No remorse. Time to get out.
> 
> She can move in with her parents now.


Yeah, I am even guessing that she chose the OP on a whim at a moment she was pissed at the OM. The best way to deal with these self centered ego maniacs is to destroy their ego. Just dump her ass like garbage and she will be begging OP back after putting a false brave front initially. But once the OP takes her back, she will lose respect for him


----------



## bryanp

She is still playing you for a fool and clearly has no respect for you whatsoever. She is trying to get the best deal and is a cake eater. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## MrK

She chose you on Saturday then spent Sunday with her lover?

:scratchhead:


----------



## spudster

> it says choo choo and there is a picture of a train on it!!!! (classic simpsons episode, btw! thank you for that haha)


...haw, haw....

You are a male... right?.......:scratchhead:


----------



## confu?ed

aug said:


> It seems to me that she considers you her enabler. The lack of caring and respect she has for you is interesting.
> 
> What do you think is holding you back?


it is an interesting question... I am not really sure. I am going through the emotional roller coaster right now. looking at pictures around my house makes me nausious. I know she will never tell me the full truth about the whole thing... (we can see that through all of the TT she is doing). 

The worst part about the ups and downs of my thoughts on the whole thing is that when you spend 9 years (1/3 of my life!) caring for, supporting, loving, creating memories, planning futures, etc, etc etc... its just hard to move on. 
I need to hear what she has to say. I will be talking to her on Wed after work. That should give me a few days to clear my head.

For all of you telling me im an idiot - and that i should just serve her, here is what i did today - 

1) contacted a lawyer
2) opened my own checking account
3) got my own credit card
4) inventoried all of our belongings in our house
5) starting to put all of our financials together
so give me some slack!! im absolutely going for this path. I just need to hear some of her excuses. (maybe i enjoy the pain, or need more pain to push me the extra quarter of an inch!)


----------



## bryanp

Good job.


----------



## TDSC60

So she has been gone since attending OM's Super Bowl party?

Remember when you talk to her that she will not tell you the truth. 

I seriously doubt that the one time she admitted to sex with OM was the first time they did it. It sounds like they have been physical for some time now and the OM would not commit to her (other than an occasional roll in the hay). I still can not get over the fact that she tells you they had sex over the weekend, then said she chooses you, then goes to him. WOW. That should tell you all you need to know about her. And it sounds like she had sex with him in your house while you were at her parents? WOW again.

Stay strong. You are doing good. You are in for a tough ride but you will be infinitely better off in the end.


----------



## confu?ed

spudster said:


> ...haw, haw....
> 
> You are a male... right?.......:scratchhead:



yea... im a dude


----------



## Initfortheduration

Please var the conversation. For your own protection.


----------



## confu?ed

Initfortheduration said:


> Please var the conversation. For your own protection.


not sure what that means


----------



## TDSC60

confu?ed said:


> not sure what that means


Voice Activate Recorder. Pick one up at Radio Shack, Best Buy or what ever. Have it with you when you talk to her.

Just in case she goes nuts on you and tries to accuse you of something latter. (It has happened to other before).


----------



## Beowulf

confu?ed said:


> not sure what that means


Voice
Activated
Recorder


VAR


----------



## confu?ed

TDSC60 said:


> Voice Activate Recorder. Pick one up at Radio Shack, Best Buy or what ever. Have it with you when you talk to her.
> 
> Just in case she goes nuts on you and tries to accuse you of something latter. (It has happened to other before).


oh, got ya! great idea....

ill do that. thanks


----------



## Chaparral

When she told you she chose you and you told her you were going to a superbowl party she didn't want to go to then she said she was going to OM's party, needs a little clarification. How did this come about exactly. What did you say to this? I wonder if this was some kind of fitness test watching for your response. Were you watching her closely? How was she acting? Was it said like a threat? The reason I'm asking is that is probably one of the most bizarre moments I have heard described here.


----------



## Beowulf

chapparal said:


> When she told you she chose you and you told her you were going to a superbowl party she didn't want to go to then she said she was going to OM's party, needs a little clarification. How did this come about exactly. What did you say to this? I wonder if this was some kind of fitness test watching for your response. Were you watching her closely? How was she acting? Was it said like a threat? The reason I'm asking is that is probably one of the most bizarre moments I have heard described here.


I'm wondering why he didn't tell her to go and not come back....ever.


----------



## Shamwow

Confu?ed - Dude. I feel you. I was married 6 years (w no kids) and when my XW had an affair last summer I walked out hard. I gave her several chances (a few too many) to come clean and explain herself, and she NEVER gave me one thing that I didn't know on my own already. She denied and lied when I'd confront her (even told me "maybe I shouldn't trust her anymore", but then followed it up with a lie - "I would never cheat on you! I'd tell if you if I was going to"). And only when I found details out on my own (through texts/emails, etc) did she give in and admit them. And then it was ONLY those details. I finally had enough that I was sick to my stomach enough to let her have it.

It wasn't easy then, it's not easy now. But the anger goes away, trust me. The pain I feel now is mainly feeling sorry for her, because even though she never really showed remorse for her actions, she has shown me through actions lately that she knows she deserves what came down on her. Financial mess, and shame from family/friends, to be exact.

I've moved on and found so many things to be happy about as a result of giving her the big D. If your W is playing these kinds of games with you, she has no respect for you. And now it's up to you to do what you have to in order to create that respect for yourself - it will come from her later, and perhaps in time to save the marriage, but I feel my situation was very akin to your current one. So I don't want to sugar coat anything. She is in love with the other guy. She is most likely WRONG, but that's how she feels, and the fact of the matter is that she believes it.

If she wants to stay with you, either she or OM must quit their job. If not, I'd recommend YOU find other work, because you will not want to work with your stbxw and her new d-bag lover.

Give her the boot. I know you love her, but if she has the audacity to protect the OM, claim one thing and do another, to YOUR detriment, she is no longer your wife in action - only in name.

Please try to resign yourself to D, and make it official by serving her as soon as possible. It will suck the whole way through, and you will second guess yourself (and her). But the things that have to change are on her end, not yours. You told her what she had to do, she agreed, and then did the EXACT OPPOSITE. Let her have it. And the OM. They'll be broken up in a month anyway and then you'll start to feel bad for her as she flounders to "find herself" again.

But it won't be your problem and she'll know why, and will have to accept it at some point.

Good luck, my D has been official for a little over a month, I'm seeing a great girl who has dealt with this mess like a champ, and while I miss my old life (as I thought it was), I don't miss my XW. She treated me like dirt. Just as your W is to you. Hike up your britches, hit the gym, take care of yourself, and a little ways down the road life will look up in so many ways.

So sorry she did this to you...it hurts and it's embarrassing, but then you start to realize that she is one who should be (and likely is) embarrassed, NOT you. Period. And never stay with her parents again. They are your future ex-inlaws. Not your enemies, but certainly not your friends in this situation. They likely lied for her when they said she was staying there.


----------



## tacoma

chapparal said:


> When she told you she chose you and you told her you were going to a superbowl party she didn't want to go to then she said she was going to OM's party, needs a little clarification. How did this come about exactly. What did you say to this? I wonder if this was some kind of fitness test watching for your response. Were you watching her closely? How was she acting? Was it said like a threat? The reason I'm asking is that is probably one of the most bizarre moments I have heard described here.


It was a fitness test but a remorseful wife knows she`s in no position to be testing a betrayed seeking R.

Only a woman still weighing her options would be testing.

If she`s still weighing options it should be done regardless.


----------



## spudster

> So she has been gone since attending OM's Super Bowl party?
> 
> Remember when you talk to her that she will not tell you the truth.
> 
> I seriously doubt that the one time she admitted to sex with OM was the first time they did it. It sounds like they have been physical for some time now and the OM would not commit to her (other than an occasional roll in the hay). I still can not get over the fact that she tells you they had sex over the weekend, then said she chooses you, then goes to him. WOW. That should tell you all you need to know about her. And it sounds like she had sex with him in your house while you were at her parents? WOW again.


:iagree:

Right on the mark again TDC.

The OM has been putting it to his wife like a nailgun.


----------



## jnj express

Hey con---cancel your wife's credit cards---as of right now what she spends, is community property----declare a legal sep. then anything she spends especially via credit cards, when she opens new ones, are her own seperate responsibility.


----------



## confu?ed

Shamwow said:


> Confu?ed - Dude. I feel you. I was married 6 years (w no kids) and when my XW had an affair last summer I walked out hard. I gave her several chances (a few too many) to come clean and explain herself, and she NEVER gave me one thing that I didn't know on my own already. She denied and lied when I'd confront her (even told me "maybe I shouldn't trust her anymore", but then followed it up with a lie - "I would never cheat on you! I'd tell if you if I was going to"). And only when I found details out on my own (through texts/emails, etc) did she give in and admit them. And then it was ONLY those details. I finally had enough that I was sick to my stomach enough to let her have it.
> 
> It wasn't easy then, it's not easy now. But the anger goes away, trust me. The pain I feel now is mainly feeling sorry for her, because even though she never really showed remorse for her actions, she has shown me through actions lately that she knows she deserves what came down on her. Financial mess, and shame from family/friends, to be exact.
> 
> I've moved on and found so many things to be happy about as a result of giving her the big D. If your W is playing these kinds of games with you, she has no respect for you. And now it's up to you to do what you have to in order to create that respect for yourself - it will come from her later, and perhaps in time to save the marriage, but I feel my situation was very akin to your current one. So I don't want to sugar coat anything. She is in love with the other guy. She is most likely WRONG, but that's how she feels, and the fact of the matter is that she believes it.
> 
> If she wants to stay with you, either she or OM must quit their job. If not, I'd recommend YOU find other work, because you will not want to work with your stbxw and her new d-bag lover.
> 
> Give her the boot. I know you love her, but if she has the audacity to protect the OM, claim one thing and do another, to YOUR detriment, she is no longer your wife in action - only in name.
> 
> Please try to resign yourself to D, and make it official by serving her as soon as possible. It will suck the whole way through, and you will second guess yourself (and her). But the things that have to change are on her end, not yours. You told her what she had to do, she agreed, and then did the EXACT OPPOSITE. Let her have it. And the OM. They'll be broken up in a month anyway and then you'll start to feel bad for her as she flounders to "find herself" again.
> 
> But it won't be your problem and she'll know why, and will have to accept it at some point.
> 
> Good luck, my D has been official for a little over a month, I'm seeing a great girl who has dealt with this mess like a champ, and while I miss my old life (as I thought it was), I don't miss my XW. She treated me like dirt. Just as your W is to you. Hike up your britches, hit the gym, take care of yourself, and a little ways down the road life will look up in so many ways.
> 
> So sorry she did this to you...it hurts and it's embarrassing, but then you start to realize that she is one who should be (and likely is) embarrassed, NOT you. Period. And never stay with her parents again. They are your future ex-inlaws. Not your enemies, but certainly not your friends in this situation. They likely lied for her when they said she was staying there.


Thank you for this note. You have no idea how much I need it right now... im trying to sleep but once my eyes are closed, its just replay city and every scenario possible. I was wavering earlier today, but I know what must be done.

Please continue with the encouraging words. They are all very much appreciated right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Confused, are the locks changed? Have you told her to just stop the lying and stay with the OM and to stop wasting your time with lies and cheating.

Have you posted both of them at cheaterville.com

Have you moved back hone and tossed her clothes and the bed onto the lawn with a sign, that says "just like my cheating wh0re wife, these are things I no longer want on my house"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Shaggy said:


> Confused, are the locks changed? Have you told her to just stop the lying and stay with the OM and to stop wasting your time with lies and cheating.
> 
> Have you posted both of them at cheaterville.com
> 
> Have you moved back hone and tossed her clothes and the bed onto the lawn with a sign, that says "just like my cheating wh0re wife, these are things I no longer want on my house"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


A real man can take anything but when his self esteem, dignity and self respect is tested by any one he woke up like a lion and protect it with all his power. Here the WW smashed it under her shoes and rubbed her cum dripping pus*y on his face, stil he says he is wavering.

Man up man, there is nothing to loose for you, you lost everything, your wife, her love, her respect, even your marital bed. What else is their to loose for you, what you are waiting to loose anymore, there is nothing more to loose.

We feel sorry for what happened to you, but we (like your WW) also feel pity for your wavering.


----------



## kenmoore14217

"A real man can take anything but when his self esteem, dignity and self respect is tested by any one he woke up like a lion and protect it with all his power. Here the WW smashed it under her shoes and rubbed her cum dripping pus*y on his face, stil he says he is wavering.

Man up man, there is nothing to loose for you, you lost everything, your wife, her love, her respect, even your marital bed. What else is their to loose for you, what you are waiting to loose anymore, there is nothing more to loose.

We feel sorry for what happened to you, but we (like your WW) also feel pity for your wavering."

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

and thank you


----------



## confu?ed

first day back to work- can't concentrate... we park in the same parking lot. i really debated parking somehwhere else today....

but, i can't concentrate.
this "anger" emotion is one strong puppy.


----------



## Chaparral

confu?ed said:


> first day back to work- can't concentrate... we park in the same parking lot. i really debated parking somehwhere else today....
> 
> but, i can't concentrate.
> this "anger" emotion is one strong puppy.


What does company policy say about office affairs? Ask HR if you have to.


----------



## Initfortheduration

Wait a minute. You told her to choose between you and the OM. And you tell her that if she contacts the OM again, you will divorce her. Now she has not only contacted him, but Fd him. I think that would count as contact. What your wife is doing is testing you. You said no contact or divorce. She thinks 

"Ok, if I f#$k the OM and then come back and tell him that I choose my hubby, he will be so happy, that he will overlook me riding the OMs member, and accept me back. Then when I F#$k the OM again, if he finds out, I will simply say, "Hey, I [email protected]#$ed the OM before, when you said choose, and you took me back. I thought that meant that I could still [email protected]#k the OM."

I would have told her, "It would be interesting to find out when you decided to choose me. Was it before or after you swallowed?"

Seriously if you take her back after that, she will have no respect for you. If you take her back, that will pretty much define you as her cuckold.


----------



## lordmayhem

I obviously don't need to add on to the excellent advice being given here with regards to your WW. Just sending you strength for you to do what needs to be done.


----------



## confu?ed

chapparal said:


> What does company policy say about office affairs? Ask HR if you have to.


i am going to meet... not sure there _is_ anything, but its worth the look


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> I obviously don't need to add on to the excellent advice being given here with regards to your WW. Just sending you strength for you to do what needs to be done.



send it fedex, he needs it quick


----------



## Almostrecovered

confu?ed said:


> i am going to meet... not sure there _is_ anything, but its worth the look



most major corps have policies, remember all the paperwork you signed but barely glanced at when you were first hired? Betcha there was some legalese in there about it.


----------



## Thorburn

What is your plan if your WS suddenly comes out of the fog and fantasy world, and comes to the reality that she wants to be with you and admits to screwing up big time? 

Your WS could switch back to "loving you" real quickly.

You are in a bad time here and I will tell you it will get worse before it gets better. There will times where you will just barely be able to take a breath.

You can only control you and that is what you want to focus on, YOU. Listen to these folks and let her go. Don't try to figure things out. Take care of you.


----------



## Shamwow

Confu?ed - Can you take a few days off work? Might be good to clear your schedule for a few days and not be in the presence of either WW or OM. 

Where has she been staying since Sun? And you? Has she been in touch w you at all, or are you guys still waiting for a Wed convo?

Hold on to your anger man, she will try to spin you like a top when you have your next "talk". Don't let her. Clearly you know she is capable of lying to your face (that's the hardest part). Be prepared for anything, and don't freak out in any way. Someone on the forum recently compared it to reacting like Spock...no emotions overtaking your actions, just calm and in control, can't be rattled.

When she asks for another chance, remember you already gave her one and she pi$$ed it away. Up to you how many times you wanna hold out the life preserver. But if you don't enforce the boundaries you've laid out with her, things will only get worse (and more confusing).

Hope the meeting w lawyer goes well. Stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

I already told him what he should do, but its falling on duff ear, because he dont have the nuts to do the needful, he know what to do, but will not.

If she talk to him again, she will definitely tie him on the lase of her panties and he will be very happy for that.

I can very well predict the end of this story, she will meet him and will say I am soooo sorry baby, I wonder how can I hurt you like this? i choose you to be with and i cant live without you, am incomplete without you blah blah blah....... Then he will say she is very remorseful and her ****ing was only a mistake and her ****ing OM was his mistake. Then happy ending with a duet song

Later few weeks or one or two months he will again will post a new thread wife is still ****ing OM what should I do? should I divorce her or remain silent?
We will say a lot then the story ends as earlier, it will continue till his death. poor guy.


----------



## SprucHub

Confu?ed - Because it seems you cannot avoid her, maybe it would help if you picture that he gave her herpes, crabs, and gonorrhea. She has it on her mouth, hands, in her hair, and, of course other places. And, she is pregnant with his baby and he has a video of causing this to happen. Because you cannot truly see how repugnant she is emotionally, maybe physical repugnance will help. She has no respect for you. You should respect yourself. The best way to save your marriage is to save yourself, otherwise you are just a doormat in a sham marriage. What if she asks you for some money to buy him a present.

File for D, and do not be a pushover about it. Things change on your terms or life goes on separately. Read some of Shamwow's postings, man up, don't pity yourself because you are not pitiful.


----------



## Shamwow

Kallan - I sincerely hope not. I think he's doing fine. It's only been days since the A-bomb came into his reality, and he's played his hand as well as most of us could so far. Seems to me better than most...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

Sham is right.

I think confu?ed is still shell shocked from his W's Affair.

Stay the course confu?ed. Take your attorney's advice. Your WW is just playing you. 

Protect yourself and take one day at a time. Keep moving forward to get out of this mess and improve your life without your wife.


----------



## Unhappy2011

confu?ed said:


> Most recently, it has been "you are a wonderful man, I don't deserve you" and "I can't be with you because I don't love myself"....
> 
> She has been going to IC on her own (3 or 4 sessions so far) and she has determined that she doesn't love herself.
> 
> She says that she never really had time to "find herself" because she was always in a relationship.
> 
> One of the fears she has is that she doesn't know who she is because she has never been alone!
> 
> She has always looked to me to try to fill whatever "happiness" she was looking for. Over the years, (and I agree with her) I haven't been my own person. I have molded into an extension of her - always trying to do things for her to keep her happy, to fill that "void", and to try to calm her overactive brain.
> 
> She doesn't know if 2 weeks is enough to find herself (I agree, fundamentally, because finding yourself takes your whole lifetime!) But she is not sure if 2 weeks will work - or 1 month - or 6 months - or a year!!! I told her that while I am supportive of her finding herself, I am not going to wait in Limbo. I need her to decide what she wants (obviously, I want to work it out and move forward!)


I deleted the fluff and left what I thought were the heart of the matter. See the pattern?

This is a common relationship and life problem, one that sounds all too familiar to my last relationship that ended with a broken engagement.

I know exactly what your wife is feeling. Even the overactive brain. She sounds like she is on the verge of the mid life crisis which often results in affairs.

I personally never cheated. 

The real deal is she is just not happy in life.

For me it was unhappiness with work, where I live and my relationship. None of which fulfilled me. While my SO was a great woman that many men would be lucky to have, I was just bored. 

We had great sex, but we lacked a rapport. And I could not imagine the rest of my life with out that.

Maybe that is what you guys lack?

The problem for you, like with my ex-fiance, is she can't wait around for me to "find myself".

You may just have to let her go.

It sounds like you are both young enough and no kids, so it may not be that complicated beyond the inital pain of separation.

If you can both be adults about it, it could be amicable.


Or if you want to give her time, it might work out.

I do miss my ex. It has been less than a month, one of my friends is trying to set me up with another girl, and I am not interested. 

I feel terrible about what happened. Maybe I think too much. All I know is I was just not happy. Like my username.


----------



## Chaparral

Unhappy2011 said:


> I deleted the fluff and left what I thought were the heart of the matter. See the pattern?
> 
> This is a common relationship and life problem, one that sounds all too familiar to my last relationship that ended with a broken engagement.
> 
> I know exactly what your wife is feeling. Even the overactive brain. She sounds like she is on the verge of the mid life crisis which often results in affairs.
> 
> I personally never cheated.
> 
> The real deal is she is just not happy in life.
> 
> For me it was unhappiness with work, where I live and my relationship. None of which fulfilled me. While my SO was a great woman that many men would be lucky to have, I was just bored.
> 
> We had great sex, but we lacked a rapport. And I could not imagine the rest of my life with out that.
> 
> Maybe that is what you guys lack?
> 
> The problem for you, like with my ex-fiance, is she can't wait around for me to "find myself".
> 
> You may just have to let her go.
> 
> It sounds like you are both young enough and no kids, so it may not be that complicated beyond the inital pain of separation.
> 
> If you can both be adults about it, it could be amicable.
> 
> 
> Or if you want to give her time, it might work out.
> 
> I do miss my ex. It has been less than a month, one of my friends is trying to set me up with another girl, and I am not interested.
> 
> I feel terrible about what happened. Maybe I think too much. All I know is I was just not happy. Like my username.


Or it may just be the gobeldegook of a cheater rationalizeing screwing over her husband.


----------



## confu?ed

Unhappy2011 said:


> I deleted the fluff and left what I thought were the heart of the matter. See the pattern?
> 
> This is a common relationship and life problem, one that sounds all too familiar to my last relationship that ended with a broken engagement.
> 
> I know exactly what your wife is feeling. Even the overactive brain. She sounds like she is on the verge of the mid life crisis which often results in affairs.
> 
> I personally never cheated.
> 
> The real deal is she is just not happy in life.
> 
> For me it was unhappiness with work, where I live and my relationship. None of which fulfilled me. While my SO was a great woman that many men would be lucky to have, I was just bored.
> 
> We had great sex, but we lacked a rapport. And I could not imagine the rest of my life with out that.
> 
> Maybe that is what you guys lack?
> 
> The problem for you, like with my ex-fiance, is she can't wait around for me to "find myself".
> 
> You may just have to let her go.
> 
> It sounds like you are both young enough and no kids, so it may not be that complicated beyond the inital pain of separation.
> 
> If you can both be adults about it, it could be amicable.
> 
> 
> Or if you want to give her time, it might work out.
> 
> I do miss my ex. It has been less than a month, one of my friends is trying to set me up with another girl, and I am not interested.
> 
> I feel terrible about what happened. Maybe I think too much. All I know is I was just not happy. Like my username.


i think your analysis is dead on. its all of the bridges she has burned, the lack of respect for me, the total disregard for our marriage, her selfishness, and her total lack of any remorse that is killing me.


----------



## Entropy3000

So soon she will be pregnant. Anyway, the question as to where she has been since the Supe Bowl was completely avoided a few times. If she went to the Supe Bowl with her OM she had sex with him big time that day. The night before as well.

She met this guy a couple of years at grad school. Had him as her "friend" for a year before you met. Then he was a friend of both of yours for a few months. He works in the same location as both of you. You never demanded she change jobs as you should have when you thought it was an EA. It was very much more than an EA for longer than you know. He gets off on banging some married guys wife. She gets off on him getting off on that. The humiliation is part of the thrill for them. That is why she came by and "chose you". That allowed her a huge opportunity to humiliate you even more during the party.

And yeah, she may be pregnant. She needs you to be the father while she has her sex with the Alpha guy.

Your turn to go find yourself. Divorce her and have a better life. This is not the woman you were looking for.


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## vickyyy

I agree with Entropy3000.Now its your turn to find yourself.

Your wife has shown utter disrespect to u and marital boundaries

Tell her that u r divorcing her because u want to find yourself now.


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## F-102

10-to-1, the WW and POSOM had a huge fight on Saturday, so she "chose" confu?ed. Then the POSOM apologized, and so they were back on, and how convenient that it would be for his SBP, so that they could adjourn to the bedroom while everyone else was watching a loud game...


----------



## MrK

Yeah. It's hard to believe she didn't screw him again Sunday.


----------



## confu?ed

So... told her tonight that I want D. We agreed on mediation. I know you all are going to rip into me and her, but you don't know what kind of people either of us are... you don't know how good of a person she really is. You all don't know what she truely has in her heart. She has been so f'd up in her head, she started actually believing her own crazy thoughts. She stopped looking inside her heart, stopped listening to what I was saying, stopped believing that she has a purpose in this world. The best way I can describe it to you is the movie "Inception"... she had a kernel of a negative thought. It was planted deep inside of her. She started noticing things that she didnt like about herself and then that kernal became truth. When you no longer love yourself, you forget what it means to be loved by others - you take advantage of those around you - you look for the easy out. 
With all the hurt, all the pain, the shiddy last 8 months, we were able to make one promise to each other... if she promised to work on herself, to really figure out what makes her happy, to start listening to her heart and looking in the mirror, then I promised her that I could be her friend in the future. 
She is going to have to do it on her own. She knows that she needs to. Otherwise, she will do it again. She knows she fkd up the one thing she could depend on. She knows what she lost. She has hit "bottom". My only hope for her is that she can take the time to figure herself out. 

You all have been a great support for me over the last few days and I appreciate all that you have given me. I ask you for one other thing: Please do not continue bashing her. Does she deserve it, absolutely. But you don't know her as a person, except for what I have written in these posts. One thing is true -life will go on, and we are all people being people. Sometimes people "lose themselves" and it takes a while to find your path. I know it has happened to me and I am positive it has happened to you. Perhaps it didn't involve your husband or wife, but it happens to all of us. So please, be mad if that's what you need to be, but understand that there is a reason we fell in love -there is something special about that person. She was special to me. I know I was special to her. Sometimesyou just get lost.

Please pray for her. Please pray for me. I know we will need it.

Thanks again -
Confu?ed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Did she want to reconcile?

Good luck confused. I apologize for some of the remarks made by posters. It is hard to imagine why people say some of the things they say when the whole purpose of this site is to help people. I know some things are said to wake people up but the more I see the more I think some people get a perverse pleasure in rubbing the waywards actions in the face of the hurting loyal spouse. I will pray for them too.

Good luck,best wishes and prayers for you and your wife. Sorry this has come to a sad end.

Chap


----------



## calif_hope

Confused.....we judged by what you shared......I believe that the trait to cheat is foundational - if she truly had a good heart she would not have cheated -
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## confu?ed

She has a good heart - she has a fd up head. That's why she cheated. Fundamentally, she is a good person. The actins of the last couple of months shouldn't negate every other moment in her life. She will fix herself, then she will be truely happy. And I hope she can love herself before she does this again.

I know that you judged by what I said, that's why I shared the above. (Also, this is very fresh for me and im def very sad currently. I still have compassion for others, even the STBXW... it let's me know that I still have my core values and ill be able to cope & come out the other side).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Confused, I don't understand a word of babble you wrote. Do you understand any of it?

Man does she ever have the ability to fill you with fog.

Bottom line: she cheated. She gaslighted you to where you let her go do it. Now when it's time to treat her like an adult and have her really face consequences for her deliberate actions, you turn to a bunch of touchy freely babble on why you aren't simply divorcing her.

She isn't posed by an daemon that made her cheat. She is an adult who chose to have sex with another man and to twist the truth so much that you stepped out of the way so she could do it.

She and he no doubt have had some good laughs at what an accommodating beta you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Have you agreed to take her back on conditions, or are you still pursuing divorce?

I know she's the woman you love, and I'm glad she showed you some emotion and talked about what she did. Just remember that she did do that sh!t. You could choose to be with someone who hasn't disrespected you like that.

But your marriage 'could' be repaired so of course you would want to give that a shot, if nothing else to at least have tried everything to save it. I get that.

Do what makes you happy, by all means. Just really think about what that means first. She can be confused all she wants, but she really did crap on you and your marriage.

Hope this can end happy...best of luck man.


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> Man does she ever have the ability to fill you with fog.


:iagree:


----------



## confu?ed

Shamwow said:


> Confu?ed - Dude. I feel you. I was married 6 years (w no kids) and when my XW had an affair last summer I walked out hard. I gave her several chances (a few too many) to come clean and explain herself, and she NEVER gave me one thing that I didn't know on my own already. She denied and lied when I'd confront her (even told me "maybe I shouldn't trust her anymore", but then followed it up with a lie - "I would never cheat on you! I'd tell if you if I was going to"). And only when I found details out on my own (through texts/emails, etc) did she give in and admit them. And then it was ONLY those details. I finally had enough that I was sick to my stomach enough to let her have it.
> 
> It wasn't easy then, it's not easy now. But the anger goes away, trust me. The pain I feel now is mainly feeling sorry for her, because even though she never really showed remorse for her actions, she has shown me through actions lately that she knows she deserves what came down on her. Financial mess, and shame from family/friends, to be exact.
> 
> I've moved on and found so many things to be happy about as a result of giving her the big D. If your W is playing these kinds of games with you, she has no respect for you. And now it's up to you to do what you have to in order to create that respect for yourself - it will come from her later, and perhaps in time to save the marriage, but I feel my situation was very akin to your current one. So I don't want to sugar coat anything. She is in love with the other guy. She is most likely WRONG, but that's how she feels, and the fact of the matter is that she believes it.
> 
> If she wants to stay with you, either she or OM must quit their job. If not, I'd recommend YOU find other work, because you will not want to work with your stbxw and her new d-bag lover.
> 
> Give her the boot. I know you love her, but if she has the audacity to protect the OM, claim one thing and do another, to YOUR detriment, she is no longer your wife in action - only in name.
> 
> Please try to resign yourself to D, and make it official by serving her as soon as possible. It will suck the whole way through, and you will second guess yourself (and her). But the things that have to change are on her end, not yours. You told her what she had to do, she agreed, and then did the EXACT OPPOSITE. Let her have it. And the OM. They'll be broken up in a month anyway and then you'll start to feel bad for her as she flounders to "find herself" again.
> 
> But it won't be your problem and she'll know why, and will have to accept it at some point.
> 
> Good luck, my D has been official for a little over a month, I'm seeing a great girl who has dealt with this mess like a champ, and while I miss my old life (as I thought it was), I don't miss my XW. She treated me like dirt. Just as your W is to you. Hike up your britches, hit the gym, take care of yourself, and a little ways down the road life will look up in so many ways.
> 
> So sorry she did this to you...it hurts and it's embarrassing, but then you start to realize that she is one who should be (and likely is) embarrassed, NOT you. Period. And never stay with her parents again. They are your future ex-inlaws. Not your enemies, but certainly not your friends in this situation. They likely lied for her when they said she was staying there.


Just reread this post. Still ringing true in my head - so, thanks again for this one
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## confu?ed

Im still moving forward with D. We are meeting with the mediator tomorrow. 
The "fog" that I am in is the understanding of people. Maybe it is too many psychology classes over the years, or my ability to see the good in people, but I still contest that the good is within her.

Sorry for another movie analogy, but alls I can think of right now is darth vader... he was fundamentally good, but he did things for a while that made him bad. Once he "found himself" he was able to show the world that he was a good person at the core. 

And I am babbling... just writing what comes to mind unedited, so im sorry for that
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saffron

I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said, "Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself." 

Both my H and I like this quote, because we can still become who we want to be in this life. My H never believed he was capable of infidelity, turns out he didn't really know himself because he was capable. He didn't lose himself. He lacked foresight and purpose in who he wanted to be and how to make it happen. He never anticipated he'd have to make hard choices someday. Choices he was ill equipped to deal with and execute. He thought he'd automatically be the man he wanted to be, but it turns out he needed an awareness of hs weaknesses and the capabilities to deal with them. Instead he allowed himself to become someone he never thought he'd become, a cheater. Now with eyes wide open he has a chance to create himself again and he plans on making the right choices this time to make it happen.

Good luck moving forward and try to focus on creating the person you want to be, with or without your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## confu?ed

Saffron said:


> I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said, "Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself."
> 
> Both my H and I like this quote, because we can still become who we want to be in this life. My H never believed he was capable of infidelity, turns out he didn't really know himself because he was capable. He didn't lose himself. He lacked foresight and purpose in who he wanted to be and how to make it happen. He never anticipated he'd have to make hard choices someday. Choices he was ill equipped to deal with and execute. He thought he'd automatically be the man he wanted to be, but it turns out he needed an awareness of hs weaknesses and the capabilities to deal with them. Instead he allowed himself to become someone he never thought he'd become, a cheater. Now with eyes wide open he has a chance to create himself again and he plans on making the right choices this time to make it happen.
> 
> Good luck moving forward and try to focus on creating the person you want to be, with or without your wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great post. Thank you. So you two r?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saffron

confu?ed said:


> Great post. Thank you. So you two r?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, but it hasn't been easy. It's been over a year since d-day and I'm still in this marriage today because my H appears to be truly remorseful and wants to R. He left his job (ow was co-worker), sent a NC letter, exposed the A to close family and friends I selected . . . he did everything I asked. He reported to me the ow's fishing attempts and even called to tell me right away when he responded to an IM she sent at work and fwd the exchange (this was all before he found a new job).

Your situation appears to be more difficult since your wife went to the OM after you confronted her about the affair. This would've been a deal breaker for me. I was ready to file for divorce the moment my H confessed the A was a PA not just an EA. He talked me into waiting to see if we could work it out for the kids. Now I'm glad we're doing better and I chose to R, but I still get days full of doubt. People aren't kidding when they say it takes 2-5 years to recover from infidelity.

I know if my H had gone to the OW at any point after d-day to continue the affair or take it underground, I wouldn't be with him today. I also know if he ever does this again or if he went underground with the affair, I'd be done. It's somewhat freeing when you no longer fear divorce and realize you could let your spouse go if need be. I don't want either of those things, but I'm mentally prepared to walk if I discover he's not being honest in our R. It would be devastating, but I'm not going through the pain of R a second time. Once is enough.

Everyone has different breaking points, but I think the faster a BS realizes they're better off alone than with a unremorseful WS the better. R is not possible with only one person doing all the work, it's hard enough even when you have a WS willing to do the heavy lifting. It's a two person endeavor to say the least.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, so try to do what's best for you and your own healing.


----------



## warlock07

> The "fog" that I am in is the understanding of people. Maybe it is too many psychology classes over the years, or my ability to see the good in people, but I still contest that the good is within her.


There is still good with in her. No one will contest that. She did not become an puppy killing evil wench over night. But there is also a level of self-centeredness in her behavior right now that will harm you in the long term if you give her too much credit. Too much kindness and empathy at this point will only enable her to continue her selfish behavior and hurt more people.


----------



## confu?ed

warlock07 said:


> But there is also a level of self-centeredness in her behavior right now that will harm you in the long term if you give her too much credit. Too much kindness and empathy at this point will only enable her to continue her selfish behavior and hurt more people.


i agree completely. 

We met with the mediator yesterday. It went ok for what it was. I was actually feeling like I could try to R with her. As the day continued, I am starting to think that she will have to drastically change and I am not convinced she is ready to do that. 

Proceeding with D.


----------



## confu?ed

Saffron said:


> Your situation appears to be more difficult since your wife went to the OM after you confronted her about the affair. This would've been a deal breaker for me.


I think this is one of the most important things for me. Did she have a PA, yes.... does she feel bad about it?.. sure... does she continue to tell me that she needs him in her life?..yes... that last part will be the biggest reason I am continuing with D. It just shows she can't R



Saffron said:


> Everyone has different breaking points, but I think the faster a BS realizes they're better off alone than with a unremorseful WS the better. R is not possible with only one person doing all the work, it's hard enough even when you have a WS willing to do the heavy lifting. It's a two person endeavor to say the least.
> 
> I'm so sorry you're going through this, so try to do what's best for you and your own healing.



:iagree:


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## Shaggy

Confused - she didn't just have a PA.

She engineered the a setup situation to get you to get out of way out of compassion for her so she could have an affair.


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