# Married women who cheat to SAVE their marriage?



## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I'm wondering if this is a deliberate trend associated with an agenda? I use the News360 app which allows you to choose categories of news, including relationship stories. It's interesting to see the numbers of "news" stories talking about the benefits of cheating that are aimed squarely at married women.

We've all seen the crap by Esther Perel, but many others are now jumping into the fray and writing positive pieces about married women cheating to save their marriage and how "happy" they are.

Here's an example:

5 of the biggest myths about the ways women cheat - and why they're not true The biggest myths about the ways women cheat - Business Insider

Obvious click bait, but is this a trend now? Is it a feminist agenda or some other group? I'm just trying to wrap my mind around where these are coming from? 

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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

An agenda?

Things like this have been going on for centuries.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

toblerone said:


> An agenda?
> 
> Things like this have been going on for centuries.


Infidelity has been going on forever but I've never seen it touted so blatantly and so often. It seems to be some kind of agenda to me. 

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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

It's a marketing agenda.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I won't read the article(s) for obvious reasons, but according to my wife, she would give anything to be able to choose differently about her affair. As I watched her remorse set in firmly, I understand how much her choice has caused her pain. It's clear as day, it's there every day, and we are together only because both of us committed fully to each other and the marriage. I won't lie to you, there are times I wonder if I chose correctly, usually these are times where I trigger softly over dates. 

There are definitely other ways to have a stronger and better marriage. If your marriage isn't good read books, get MC, but infidelity makes the reconciliation much more difficult. That's just for starters, it gets very difficult even with a spouse who is very remorseful. Even as the wayward tries to earn repentance, reconciliation is still very difficult.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I've met quite a few female serial cheaters, and yes some of them do think they are saving their marriage by cheating. They see that they have a need that their spouse can't meet, and rather than leave they find it in someone else. At least with the ones I've met they don't really have deep feelings for their OM, he's just there to give them something they aren't getting at home. They don't see anything really wrong with it as long as they don't "hurt" their husbands by having him find out. I know this type of "logic" isn't on the up and up. But it really is how some people view it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LOL no.

Nothing more than yet another rich vein of bull**** justification and minimization.

A need isn’t valid unless you’re willing to stand up and _loudly_ proclaim that you NEED it.

So, until these women are able _and *willing*_ to actually tell their husbands that they NEED to bang randos, have boyfriends, etc, they're just skanks and hos.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> I'm wondering if this is a deliberate trend associated with an agenda? I use the News360 app which allows you to choose categories of news, including relationship stories. It's interesting to see the numbers of "news" stories talking about the benefits of cheating that are aimed squarely at married women.
> 
> We've all seen the crap by Esther Perel, but many others are now jumping into the fray and writing positive pieces about married women cheating to save their marriage and how "happy" they are.
> 
> ...


F Esther Perel, but don't marry her!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> I've met quite a few female serial cheaters, and yes some of them do think they are saving their marriage by cheating. They see that they have a need that their spouse can't meet, and rather than leave they find it in someone else. At least with the ones I've met they don't really have deep feelings for their OM, he's just there to give them something they aren't getting at home. They don't see anything really wrong with it as long as they don't "hurt" their husbands by having him find out. I know this type of "logic" isn't on the up and up. But it really is how some people view it.


Men do the same thing, you never see the same kind of articles though. Both are wrong.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> I've met quite a few female serial cheaters, and yes some of them do think they are saving their marriage by cheating. They see that they have a need that their spouse can't meet, and rather than leave they find it in someone else. At least with the ones I've met they don't really have deep feelings for their OM, he's just there to give them something they aren't getting at home. They don't see anything really wrong with it as long as they don't "hurt" their husbands by having him find out. I know this type of "logic" isn't on the up and up. But it really is how some people view it.


Yes..

THIS is a *FOR THEM* truth.

But Truth can be multifaceted with regards to humans and their needs, their deeds, their accepted sins.

For a 'some' majority of 'others' this line of thinking is plain bullcrap.

As some people paint their house and rooms differently, women paint their lives and the meaning of their lives differently.
In ways painful for others to see, to hear and to read.

It is not ours to say they are wrong.
It is ours to say they are wrong for us, each of us separately.

The painful part is evident. The bliss that they receive from their ways is part of the pain that they lay at our feet.
Tear from our good will, tear from our soul.


If something under the Sun exists....it is right.
It may not be pleasant, popular, proper or fair. 
But it is right, it is real, it is in our faces....real.

Like it or not.
I do not like it.

And that Sir, Madam is my conjecture.
One powerless in the face of 'what can be".

What is possible, good or bad.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Men do the same thing, you never see the same kind of articles though. Both are wrong.


I don't know. I think double standards exist, and to be honest...I think they'll always exist. I think the reason you don't see articles like this for men is because an article like that for guys really isn't click bait. Its kind of assumed that its something guys have been up to for a while.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

Women are cheating at much greater rates today than in years past, and I think astronomically higher. Publications, industry, etc... Are just riding that wave in order to generate interest into what they're writing or selling.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Instead of being a book all its own this is really just a chapter in the prophetic book called "The Decline and Fall of Western Civilization". This is just a piece of that eventual collapse.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I had a female employee years ago that consistently, often and quite loudly proclaimed that EVERY man cheated. There is no need for any news story about this. That is old news. I often wondered where all of these cheating men found affair partners among all of the pure faithful women.
Today an affair on the part of Mrs Nail would not save the marriage, but would quickly save me.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

A couple of things.

First, I can't think of a single article I have ever seen associated with "Business Insider" that has not been total click bait.

Second. I question every single thing that comes from anyone that has any association with the University of Missouri, in my opinion a **** hole that has not completely felt the consequences of their actions a few years back. Keep hoping I will eventually read about them folding up shop.

Third, the active was written by a woman. The bias in the story was quite obvious. She can say what she wants, but I don't believe a word from her lying mouth. The entitled princess syndrome is strong in this broad.

A cynical ******* would say this is "beta bux, alpha ****s" in action. I happen to believe that humans are really ****ty excuses for animals.

Regardless, the is a perfect example why child custody should be automatically 50/50 in every state and every single child birth should have a mandated paternity test at birth.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Some people will try and justify anything. How they think that adultery, lying and deception is saving anything I have no idea, but they tell themselves that to make it ok in their minds I suppose.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Maybe there are people out there who need drama to feel alive.

I briefly dated a guy who was my brother's professor at law school. We didn't go the distance but we reconnected just as both of our marriages were collapsing. I was amazed at how much --he said-- he put up with with his wife. Several affairs. an 8 month separation so that she could sample another guy........ and it was she who filed for divorce. 

and she had a pre teen son. imagine what coping mechanisms he has created.

We lost touch, guess I didn't provide enough drama for him.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

TX-SC said:


> I'm wondering if this is a deliberate trend associated with an agenda? I use the News360 app which allows you to choose categories of news, including relationship stories. It's interesting to see the numbers of "news" stories talking about the benefits of cheating that are aimed squarely at married women.
> 
> We've all seen the crap by Esther Perel, but many others are now jumping into the fray and writing positive pieces about married women cheating to save their marriage and how "happy" they are.
> 
> ...


My 2 cents. 


This article is a book review in Business Insider. Hardly a academic study geared towards social studies for the lay person. That being said the core of the article is interviews conducted with 46 married female cheaters on the AM website. Again, hardly a giant sample set representative of the general population. 

She talked to 46 cheaters who are experts at using devious subterfuge to lie to their husbands and have a thousand excuses about why it is ok to be a cheating backstabbing liar. She lists 5 points , 4 of which are straight up standard cake eating. The 5th one is she claims that it is a myth that cheaters always get caught. But she bases it on interviewing 46 woman on a web site dedicated to cheating. A ridiculous conclusion since everyone on AM a few years ago was in fact caught by someone when AM's entire DB was hacked and made available online. Anyone who was tech savvy enough could download the stolen DBs, install MySQL and look up everyone on the web site which many did. Extortionists started sending pay me or Ill expose you threatening letters to everyone on the AM website. Many cheaters were publicly exposed, or at least exposed as having accounts on the web site. Some took their own life apparently. Oh well. Anyway, nothing new in this article based on the representative sample set. This is like you say, clickbait, journalism that uses hyperbole. 

The only trend it points out is the obvious one of the internet has facilitate cheated. It also facilitated getting caught, a double edge sword. As far as agenda I don't think it is a feminist agenda or any other set of ideas. It is just part of a general narcissistic drift in how individuals are putting themselves first with no regard with how it affects others, a general trend towards narcissism if you will.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> My 2 cents.
> 
> 
> This article is a book review in Business Insider. Hardly a academic study geared towards social studies for the lay person. That being said the core of the article is interviews conducted with 46 married female cheaters on the AM website. Again, hardly a giant sample set representative of the general population.
> ...


I agree that this isn't much of a study and I alluded to such by mentioning this is obviously click bait. But, my point isn't about this so called study. It's about the recent glut of such articles I'm seeing these days. It seems like every few days there's another "why women cheat" article glorifying it as if it's a way to enhance your marriage. They all seem to glorify cheating as a way to make your marriage better. You don't see the same types of articles aimed at men. I'm just wondering why this is just now becoming so trendy? Is it a way to empower wives? 

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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I think pornography is slowly steering women from being satisfied to unfulfilled.
To being happy with one man, to wanting many men.

It ruins many men.
Women are made from a man's rib.

Hence, they too shall fall.
And civilization after that.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

My opinion its just a sensitive topic that makes it perfect clickbait. Would any woman click on a article with the genders reversed? You betcha. I imagine there would be an economic boycott of the website started and the writer would be vilified as a misogynist. LOL. Double standard? Of course it is. I don't think this empowers wives though. It definitely weakens marriage in general and makes makes smart men wary of who they marry.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Although you could have a stronger marriage after the catastrophe of infidelity, I don't think many women enter into an affair with that in mind.
Especially professional women, who have options if the marriage goes south.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

100 yrs ago, women ran the risk of being beaten and left homeless and destitute by their husbands if they were caught cheating. 
Now they might become marriage counselors and write books, while spending half of their ex-husband's assets.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> Although you could have a stronger marriage after the catastrophe of infidelity, I don't think many women enter into an affair with that in mind.
> Especially professional women, who have options if the marriage goes south.


IMO, only if you need drama and constant validation that your partner is desirable to more people than jut yourself.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> My opinion its just a sensitive topic that makes it perfect clickbait. Would any woman click on a article with the genders reversed? You betcha. I imagine there would be an economic boycott of the website started and the writer would be vilified as a misogynist. LOL. Double standard? Of course it is. I don't think this empowers wives though. It definitely weakens marriage in general and makes smart men wary of who they marry.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My ex-husband calmly and seriously sat me down and explained to me that it was his serial cheating that had given us such a good marriage. Without it, he would have been unhappy and not been nearly as good a husband to me. He was just getting something he needed that I couldn't provide him. And I shouldn't have found out about it because it really wasn't any of my business. Now...didn't I feel silly for causing such a fuss and didn't I feel bad that I'd caused so much unhappiness and pain by finding out?

:slap:

Cheaters, both male and female, have been using this line for years, decades, possibly centuries. The only difference is that now "news" is generated to encourage clicks. So people produce articles designed to generate those elusive clicks. This particular type gets views by unhappy women looking for an excuse, by serial cheating women looking for validation of their worldview, by betrayed men desperate for insight, by the red-pill crowd looking for validation of their worldview, and on and on. It's, by definition, clickbait. 

And the fundamental truth that people who cheat will do anything to justify it, whether they be female or male, is not changed one iota by it.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> I'm wondering if this is a deliberate trend associated with an agenda? I use the News360 app which allows you to choose categories of news, including relationship stories. It's interesting to see the numbers of "news" stories talking about the benefits of cheating that are aimed squarely at married women.
> 
> We've all seen the crap by Esther Perel, but many others are now jumping into the fray and writing positive pieces about married women cheating to save their marriage and how "happy" they are.
> 
> ...



You need to let go of this app. I use the Opera web browser because it blocks ads, pop ups and most redirects. It blocks ads in websites but Opera has its own landing page where it lists so called news stories. It's full of click bait garbage. There would be articles you click on then you get a bunch of similar articles related to what you clicked. If you read about a teacher having sex with a student, you then get a bunch of articles about child molestation. The articles aren't even current. That's how they fund that site. I finally figured out how to turn off that function. I remember Business Insider as one of the clickbait websites that used to appear there regularly. Their articles rarely had anything to do with business.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rowan said:


> My ex-husband calmly and seriously sat me down and explained to me that it was his serial cheating that had given us such a good marriage. Without it, he would have been unhappy and not been nearly as good a husband to me. He was just getting something he needed that I couldn't provide him. And I shouldn't have found out about it because it really wasn't any of my business. Now...didn't I feel silly for causing such a fuss and didn't I feel bad that I'd caused so much unhappiness and pain by finding out?
> 
> :slap:
> 
> ...


Glad to hear he is now your EX husband. :surprise:


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## doconiram (Apr 24, 2017)

I worked at a place that had about 500 employees. There was a group of 7 or 8 guys that hung out fairly regularly together. Each was married and all either had a girlfriend on the side or were looking for one. They didn’t hide any of it at work and it was common knowledge in the workplace. Everyone looked the other way but gossiped about it. The older staff could name each of the women who spent time with one or several of them. I was young and dumb. I really wish I had sent a note to each of their spouses with details. Apparently no one ever did that.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> 100 yrs ago, women ran the risk of being beaten and left homeless and destitute by their husbands if they were caught cheating.
> Now they might become marriage counselors and write books, while spending half of their ex-husband's assets.


Yep, there is little dis-incentive to cheat is there. And society tells us its HEALTHY. Give me a F***ing break.

At the end of the day, people need to make their own decisions and feel satisfied with them.

I do get mad at the whole acceptance of cheating in modern life though.

So glad to be in a relationship where it is clear that cheating is ending the relationship. Period.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> LOL no.
> 
> Nothing more than yet another rich vein of bull**** justification and minimization.
> 
> ...


Exactly.....

The one thing that struck me about these responses from the cheaters in the study about ‘cheating to save their marriage, not leave it’ or ‘needing more than one man to meet their needs, because they had tried the one man route (their BH’s) and it hadn’t worked’ was this....

The confidence and satisfaction of these cheaters is entirely predicated on the ‘myth’ number 5, not getting caught, remaining forever true.

I doubt their happiness with wh0ring around will be quite so great and fulfilling for them if they get busted.....

These ladies seem like the type that will tell you that cheating is actually saving their M and even making it better.....

Let’s see how that works out for them after they get caught.....

Some of them might get lucky enough to discover they are M to doormats who will take the blame for their skanky behavior and beg them to save the M....

But most of them will find themselves summarily kicked to the curb hard and the object of their BH’s, families, and friends scorn, rejection, and disgust.....

Let’s see how great they think their ****ty behavior is after the truth is revealed.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

There is some truth there. No question my affairs enabled my first marriage lasting as long as it did. Without the relief valve the affairs provided, I'd have snapped and left long before I actually did.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> There is some truth there. No question my affairs enabled my first marriage lasting as long as it did. Without the relief valve the affairs provided, I'd have snapped and left long before I actually did.


Speaking for myself, I would far rather my husband ended my marriage than cheated. Its no marriage anyway if there is adultery as far as I am concerned.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

MJJEAN said:


> There is some truth there. No question my affairs enabled my first marriage lasting as long as it did. Without the relief valve the affairs provided, I'd have snapped and left long before I actually did.


A couple of problems with affairs:

1. Leakage in the marriage: intimacy , time, money
2. Relationships are dynamic. Just when you thought you found the FB partner, you realise you have to reckon with the fact that they won't staying the "box" that you created for them. Especially if you're trying to keep the relationship secret.
3. You could choose someone who proves to be dangerous. imagine letting your children hang around this person. Equally important, what if they try to harm your spouse.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> No question my affairs enabled my first marriage lasting as long as it did. Without the relief valve the affairs provided, I'd have snapped and left long before I actually did.


I think this is the only accurate explanation.

Affairs 'save' the marriage only in the way that they save the partner from actually leaving their spouse.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

agenda?
Seems there are two types of people out there: those that are morally capable of cheating, and those that are not.
So the agenda seems to be a way for that first group of people to rationalize their cheating sexual behavior. By listing "myths" that are derogatory, and knocking each one down, it empowers the cheater, and encourages them they are doing it for altruistic reasons.

Just think how deluded you would be to say "i cheated to save my marriage!". ugh
Saving your marriage would be best served by talking out the issues, seeking counseling, etc


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Speaking for myself, I would far rather my husband ended my marriage than cheated. Its no marriage anyway if there is adultery as far as I am concerned.


It's pages long to explain, but the short version is that my ex was the kind of guy who lied about lying, had multiple children with multiple women he did not visit or support, couldn't/wouldn't keep a job, spent money foolishly when he had it, stole repeatedly from his own mother and father, would have sex with any woman who would stand still long enough, and had zero issues with hitting his wife. Facts I didn't know until I after I had a birth control failure and became pregnant with his child. At 17. He was a casual sex partner, I "did the right thing" after discovering I was pregnant, married him shortly after the birth of my oldest daughter, and then quietly began to go insane. It was no marriage from the beginning.





NextTimeAround said:


> A couple of problems with affairs:
> 
> 1. Leakage in the marriage: intimacy , time, money
> 2. Relationships are dynamic. Just when you thought you found the FB partner, you realise you have to reckon with the fact that they won't staying the "box" that you created for them. Especially if you're trying to keep the relationship secret.
> 3. You could choose someone who proves to be dangerous. imagine letting your children hang around this person. Equally important, what if they try to harm your spouse.


If you're interested, I can address your points from my own experiences, both personal and those that I have witnessed among friends and family.

1) Leakage of time, money, and intimacy weren't issues for most waywards that I know personally, including myself. 

Intimacy was already dead or wasn't present in the first place.

Time together was already rare or non-existent. People living mostly separate lives, really.

When I was involved in an affair I just didn't sleep much. I'd wake, take care of the kid(s) and household chores, do errands in the afternoon, do whatever random thing my in-laws or family needed that they couldn't attend to because of their work schedules, whatever yard work, house, or car maintenance needed doing in the early evening, spend time with various friends and family throughout, get the kids to bed around 8 or 9 pm, and then go out for my personal time. I think I averaged 4 hrs a night.

Money wasn't an issue, either. I don't know anyone who bought expensive gifts or spent $100's on hotel rooms. Most were either having sex at friends houses, their own houses while their spouses were working, traveling, or out for the night, sneaking into private empty rooms at work, or doing it in the car.

2) Relationship dynamic has been an issue, but not a common one. The affairs I know of or participated in were not long term. Most were less than 3 months or an off and on thing lasting a few months here and there. Started and ended with the understanding that the relationship was FWB, at best. There were a few where the WS and/or AP "caught feelings", but those were the exception.

3) Yes, people can choose dangerous AP's. But, to be fair here, single parents can also unknowingly choose dangerous romantic partners. Looking back on it, there were a lot of AP's around the BS's and the children. So many AP's were "friends of the family".

I had a mix of ONS/short term affairs and FWB type affairs. The men I didn't know well didn't even know where I lived, much less get introduced to my children. The men who were friends of mine, my exH, our families that were FWB's I did know well were frequently around the children because they'd known them all their lives.



toblerone said:


> I think this is the only accurate explanation.
> 
> Affairs 'save' the marriage only in the way that they save the partner from actually leaving their spouse.


Pretty much.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Rowan said:


> My ex-husband calmly and seriously sat me down and explained to me that it was his serial cheating that had given us such a good marriage. Without it, he would have been unhappy and not been nearly as good a husband to me. He was just getting something he needed that I couldn't provide him. And I shouldn't have found out about it because it really wasn't any of my business. Now...didn't I feel silly for causing such a fuss and didn't I feel bad that I'd caused so much unhappiness and pain by finding out?


I'm not nearly quick enough in the moment to think of it were I in your position, but I fantasize a response where you would say something about how you've been out having sex with lots of other men... and isn't it cool how you both have the same acceptance of it.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Thor said:


> I'm not nearly quick enough in the moment to think of it were I in your position, but I fantasize a response where you would say something about how you've been out having sex with lots of other men...


Well, by the time he offered his explanation regarding what a service he'd actually been doing me by running around for the entirety of our 21 year relationship, I'd already filed for divorce. I was just simply, completely, assuredly, done. So, I just looked at him like what he'd just said was as insane as it was, and went back to packing my things up in anticipation of moving day. I was well beyond even attempting snappy comebacks. I just wanted him to stop talking and go away.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

They sey that they have a need that their spouse can't meet, and rather than leave they find it in someone else.

MJJEAN
No question my affairs enabled my first marriage lasting as long as it did. Without the relief valve the affairs provided, I'd have snapped and left long before I actually did.


I read an affair forum and what MJJean and a few others said about a relief valve seems like it is a common event for people looking for more than just sex. I read a lot about a lack of connection within the marriage and emotional neglect. Should those M end, maybe yes but a lot of people put up with a lot of loneliness before the connect with another person, that leads to an affair.

of course there are the players and the people that just like having sex with people other than their SO, I will call those people players, in it for the thrill.

Counseling doesn't help some marriages. People in bad relationships I sort of understand why affairs happen.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> agenda?
> Seems there are two types of people out there: those that are morally capable of cheating, and those that are not.
> So the agenda seems to be a way for that first group of people to rationalize their cheating sexual behavior. By listing "myths" that are derogatory, and knocking each one down, it empowers the cheater, and encourages them they are doing it for altruistic reasons.
> 
> ...


Absolutely. I heard a man who runs one of those online adultery websites try and justify his actions by claiming that they 'saved marriages'. How deluded he is. Once one spouse cheats the marriage is shattered anyway.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> There is some truth there. No question my affairs enabled my first marriage lasting as long as it did. Without the relief valve the affairs provided, I'd have snapped and left long before I actually did.


I think that is the problem with the premise of articles like this and frankly a lot of thinking on infidelity, success is based on the marriage staying together not whether it's a good marriage or not. There is way too much stigma on divorce when it comes to abuse. Divorce from cheaters and abusers should be celebrated, they should put announcements in the papers like they do when you are getting married.

The is only one thing needed to be said to this article. 

Married women who cheat to SAVE their marriage - but then why would anyone want to be married to a cheater.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

sokillme said:


> I think that is the problem with the premise of articles like this and frankly a lot of thinking on infidelity, success is based on the marriage staying together not whether it's a good marriage or not. There is way too much stigma on divorce when it comes to abuse. Divorce from cheaters and abusers should be celebrated, they should put announcements in the papers like they do when you are getting married.
> 
> The is only one thing needed to be said to this article.
> 
> Married women who cheat to SAVE their marriage - but then why would anyone want to be married to a cheater.


Divorce when there has been abuse and/or infidelity has long since lost it's stigma here and is celebrated....unless you have a kid or few. Then you're expected to stay married "for the kids" or your sons will end up in jail and your daughters will end up on the stripper pole.

It took me 5 years to realize that the sham hostile roommate marriage I was modeling for my kids was much worse than growing up "from a broken home".


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> It's pages long to explain, but the short version is that my ex was the kind of guy who lied about lying, had multiple children with multiple women he did not visit or support, couldn't/wouldn't keep a job, spent money foolishly when he had it, stole repeatedly from his own mother and father, would have sex with any woman who would stand still long enough, and had zero issues with hitting his wife. Facts I didn't know until I after I had a birth control failure and became pregnant with his child. At 17. He was a casual sex partner, I "did the right thing" after discovering I was pregnant, married him shortly after the birth of my oldest daughter, and then quietly began to go insane. It was no marriage from the beginning.


MJ-
Thanks, I needed that. This, a plausible explanation.

My imagination is expansive, often wicked.

In this, your words, and in my dream, you grounded the devil. 
Now, he is looks meek. 
You are redeemed by this, by me, a cellar, sometime attic dweller.

SCM
as translated by Lilith


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

"In order to save the village, we found it necessary to destroy the village."


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> Divorce when there has been abuse and/or infidelity has long since lost it's stigma here and is celebrated....unless you have a kid or few. Then you're expected to stay married "for the kids" or your sons will end up in jail and your daughters will end up on the stripper pole.
> 
> It took me 5 years to realize that the sham hostile roommate marriage I was modeling for my kids was much worse than growing up "from a broken home".


But it WAS a broken home.

It's just that until you decided to divorce him, none of the debris had been cleared away.

You cleared the debris and cleaned up the mess he made with your divorce broom.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

TX-SC said:


> Infidelity has been going on forever but I've never seen it touted so blatantly and so often. It seems to be some kind of agenda to me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I wonder whose agenda that would be.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> But it WAS a broken home.
> 
> It's just that until you decided to divorce him, none of the debris had been cleared away.
> 
> You cleared the debris and cleaned up the mess he made with your divorce broom.


It took me far too long to come to that conclusion myself. 

I think there are a lot of quietly desperate people who make choices believing in their minds that what they are doing is the lesser of evils. I truly believed that staying married to my kids biological father was the absolute best thing for them and there was no way in Hell I could do that without the relief valve the affairs provided.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> "In order to save the village, we found it necessary to destroy the village."


Yes, this works only one time.
Doing so, you saved the real estate, the land.
But not the real inmates, they, from owning their crime.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> I wonder whose agenda that would be.


That's a good question! Are we as a society glorifying adultery and infidelity across the board, or only for women? I haven't run across any articles glorifying infidelity for men, only for women. The authors certainly have an agenda: sell more books. But why are news sources picking up on these? Is it strictly clickbait? 

My question was in regard to the fact that these target women only. Why is that? Who does this benefit?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

TX-SC said:


> That's a good question! Are we as a society glorifying adultery and infidelity across the board, or only for women? I haven't run across any articles glorifying infidelity for men, only for women. The authors certainly have an agenda: sell more books. But why are news sources picking up on these? Is it strictly clickbait?
> 
> My question was in regard to the fact that these target women only. Why is that? Who does this benefit?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Men didn't need to glorify infidelity. It was their right for literally centuries. Now that women have reasonably reliable birth control and the ability to support themselves, they are also free to partake.

I've heard men say they cheated in order to stay married for social, religious, and financial reasons. If there are children, many add in they don't want to lose time with their kids, don't want someone else raising their kids, and think their children would be damaged by divorce. Now that women can financially support themselves and there is almost no stigma surrounding divorce, they have the option of leaving and are in the same decision making position men have been in all along. 

Also, this is a time of great change. People are questioning marriage and relationships in a way they haven't before. We're changing the definition and meaning, for good or ill. Think about it. Homosexual marriage is legal in something like 18 countries. Polygamy has become more acceptable to society and law enforcement doesn't get involved with known polygamists as long as all involved are consenting adults. More and more people are openly "swingers". Polyamorous groupings are more and more common, too. It seems natural that this would be one of the topics examined.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Men didn't need to glorify infidelity. It was their right for literally centuries. Now that women have reasonably reliable birth control and the ability to support themselves, they are also free to partake.
> 
> I've heard men say they cheated in order to stay married for social, religious, and financial reasons. If there are children, many add in they don't want to lose time with their kids, don't want someone else raising their kids, and think their children would be damaged by divorce. Now that women can financially support themselves and there is almost no stigma surrounding divorce, they have the option of leaving and are in the same decision making position men have been in all along.
> 
> Also, this is a time of great change. People are questioning marriage and relationships in a way they haven't before. We're changing the definition and meaning, for good or ill. Think about it. Homosexual marriage is legal in something like 18 countries. Polygamy has become more acceptable to society and law enforcement doesn't get involved with known polygamists as long as all involved are consenting adults. More and more people are openly "swingers". Polyamorous groupings are more and more common, too. It seems natural that this would be one of the topics examined.


I agree with all of that, but is infidelity in women being glorified now, and if so, by who?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> I agree with all of that, but is infidelity in women being glorified now, and if so, by who?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I am not sure that adultery is ever glorified, except by the most immoral.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I am not sure that adultery is ever glorified, except by the most immoral.


If you read the article you'll see that it is indeed glorified as a way for women to "take one for the team" to save the marriage. In fact, some are taking more than one for the team.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

I don't see anything about the article that glorifies it at all.

The book itself doesn't seem to either.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Dribble.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

TX-SC said:


> I agree with all of that, but is infidelity in women being glorified now, and if so, by who?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Every group has their "evangelicals". The "evangelical" non-monogamists (polygamists, polyamorous, swingers, and so on) will glorify their lifestlye choices by telling anyone who'll listen about their lifestyle and how it's enriched their lives. So, it follows that women who've happily had affairs to avoid divorce and keep their marriages intact would join the fray and glorify their choices, too.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

TX-SC said:


> That's a good question! Are we as a society glorifying adultery and infidelity across the board, or only for women? I haven't run across any articles glorifying infidelity for men, only for women. The authors certainly have an agenda: sell more books. But why are news sources picking up on these? Is it strictly clickbait?


Who is "society"? It's not like society is a unified group. As a member of said society, I don't glorify infidelity. The author has a point of view, surely. The news is for selling, clearly. 



> My question was in regard to the fact that these target women only. Why is that? Who does this benefit?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Is sharing ideas always an agenda for some nefarious group trying to sway the actions of moronic societal lemmings?


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> Who is "society"? It's not like society is a unified group. As a member of said society, I don't glorify infidelity. The author has a point of view, surely. The news is for selling, clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Is sharing ideas always an agenda for some nefarious group trying to sway the actions of moronic societal lemmings?


Yeah, usually, especially when it incorporates ideology most agree is immoral.

I get your point, but I'm not sure who this benefits? Cheating wives? 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Quite simply: the article was busting some myths on why women cheat based on a group of women's own words.

It is not glorifying it.

The fact that someone wrote a book based on their research with a group of women does not necessarily glorify it either.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

toblerone said:


> Quite simply: the article was busting some myths on why women cheat based on a group of women's own words.
> 
> It is not glorifying it.
> 
> The fact that someone wrote a book based on their research with a group of women does not necessarily glorify it either.


True, but did they also interview any women who had been on the site, were busted by their husbands, and are now divorced?

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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

That honestly doesn't matter for the purpose and scope of what the author wanted to investigate.


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## Volunteer86 (Aug 2, 2017)

TX-SC this is an interesting subject I had read a few articles on it a few months ago. I think it is in the way women are viewed and how society is changing. With the divorce rate at 50% or more and both man and woman working. I think there is time that is missed spending together. I know a few couples that got careers, married, kids, everything that goes with kids (sports, hobbies, etc) and they drift apart. I think men and women at that point catch a spark from someone new that draws the attention that they once found in their partner. I would be interested to know if any of these couples have an "agreement" that they know its going on.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

What they don't tell you about the 50% divorce rate is instigated by women 80% of the time. Just because a woman (or a man) wants to stay married to you doesn't mean youre the hottest thing out there. It could be, and probably is, out of expediency. They get their staples from you and dessert someplace else.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

TX-SC said:


> Yeah, usually, especially when it incorporates ideology most agree is immoral.
> 
> I get your point, but I'm not sure who this benefits? Cheating wives?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


No one? I have no idea.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

TX-SC said:


> True, but did they also interview any women who had been on the site, were busted by their husbands, and are now divorced?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Again, this is only in my experience both irl and online, but most of the women I know who were caught or confessed and divorced expressed relief and optimism for their future. How much of that was bravado, I don't know.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> My 2 cents.
> 
> 
> This article is a book review in Business Insider. Hardly a academic study geared towards social studies for the lay person. That being said the core of the article is interviews conducted with 46 married female cheaters on the AM website. Again, hardly a giant sample set representative of the general population.
> ...



I love figuring out how these articles and how studies like this come about and are carried out. Who are these authors? Surely they aren't happily married persons. They are like swingers doing a study to demonstrate that swinging actually makes people happy - so let's go find a "sample" of happy swingers to "interview" and then make blanket statements about the entire endeavor. Or their like Ester Perle and her panels of supposedly happy polyamourous couples or testimonials of happy couples that claim her suggestion they give each other a weekend hall pass {to cheat} saved their marriages. 

BTW - You can buy the book by Alicia Walker on Amazon for only $89.98. Or just do the "look inside" and read some of the crap yourself.

She lost me quick at the end of Chapter One: "Who Are These 'Bad Girls' Anyway and Where Did I Find Them" where she gives her opinion of the life is short have an affair website ash mad dot com and it's owner. Ms. Walker write: "Nevertheless for those folks living lives of quiet and private desperation - those who are desperate to stay marriage AND desperate for sexual release - N O E L {B iderman - the owner of AM} and Ash Mad are a godsend, a beacon in the dark".

A "beacon in the dark"{hell} I surely get, but, a "godsend", really? 

In addition, on Page 4 {chapter one} she discusses her sampling and interviewing process and indicates that she received direct assistance from the representatives of ash mad in obtaining the willing study participants and the book is based upon only 46 females that supposedly utilized their website and all of them were "interviewed" by anonymous email. Not one participant was verified as 100% legitimate or unpaid or honest.

On page 6 she briefly outlined the limitations of the data but failed to mention that due to anonymous nature of the responses there is no way that she could guarantee that any of the participants were actually real or that they were, in fact, women at all. Consider also that in 2014, Ash Mad had income of approx $115 million and pretax profits of $55 million so there was a lot of money and profit at stake and this "studies" conclusions about AM COULD help the company against the overwelming negativity surrounding the website, it's behavior and it's owners/employees. It's not like the company was above reproach. AM admitted to the rampant creation of fem bot profiles {fake women} used to entice men to sign up, renew and seemingly have a chance, in their geographic area and demographics of actually meeting a woman for anonymous fornication. On Gizmodo dot com a woman named Annalee Newitz discussed the {admitted and disclosed} fact that AM deliberately faked at least 70,000 of the female accounts and concluded: 

"What I have learned from examining the site’s source code is that {A.M.'s} army of fembots appears to have been a sophisticated, deliberate, and lucrative fraud. The code tells the story of a company trying to weave the illusion that women on the site are plentiful and eager. Whatever the total number of real, active female {A.M.} users is, the company was clearly on a desperate quest to design legions of fake women to interact with the men on the site. *{I don't want to link the article because it mentions A M by name and we aren't supposed to do that here on TAM}."​

With that much money at stake and considering how healthy, horny and sane the results of the interviews were, I don't think it's a reach to reasonably suspect most or all of the respondents to the study were possibly faked by the "representatives" at A.M. in their continued quest to portray an active and healthy female subset of active female users rationally seeking large penises. Much of the book {that's available to read} actually reads as an advertisement for the website including chapters detailing the apparent selection process these *****s supposedly utilized when they were selecting men to have casual anonymous sex with. Not having experience at AM I wouldn't know but I'd surmise that the methods suggested by these anonymous women would, quite coincidentally, be the most profitable for the company as well. 

My own feeling is that this was just a Grad Student dissertation that's getting way too much attention. She didn't particularly care whether her data was bogus or not at the time and she was probably well into the study when the impact team, so fortunately, blew AM up. She just wanted the paper done without having to throw the data under the bus. The data suited her agenda anyway so what does it matter? I just think it's a blind spot that she failed to mention in the book that AM has admitted deliberate and extensive deception and online image management to such an extent that her entire study and data set MIGHT be mostly or entirely fake. Perhaps the emails themselves, the blind addresses, the IP addresses or and other data provided {including comparing the word choices} can be analyzed by a panel or someone like Annalee Newitz {who could compare it to some of the leaked data too} to catch any anomalies and/or determine whether it appears they are random or part of a deliberate effort to deceive. 

oh yeah - I didn't read the whole book so maybe she made this point somewhere in the book but I doubt it.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Again, this is only in my experience both irl and online, but most of the women I know who were caught or confessed and divorced expressed relief and optimism for their future.


Of course. Like I've always said, women who cheat have lost romantic interest in their husbands and views the upside of the cat being out of the bag as relief. If she gets caught and he walks, it a new adventure without the weight of chill he brings or if she confesses, she's already factored in him leaving, deep down hoping he will. If he stays, at worse she'll have to service him once and a while counting the cracks in the ceiling or mentally going somewhere pleasant. The moans her husband hears are not from pleasure but more like the moans she emits while scubbing the tub.


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