# My boyfriend asked me awkward questions



## JaneDoe2013

Hi everyone. I’m a long time reader, but first time poster. I have an awkward dating situation thing that I need to fix. 

A little while ago I met a new guy that I liked right away so when he asked me out I was really happy. We really clicked and we started dating. That was a little over two months ago. Being with him is fun, exciting, and very comfortable – he really brings out the best in me. In the past I was attracted to a different kind of guy and it never worked out. So with my new guy I really want it to develop into a serious relationship. I decided not to rush things as far as sex was concerned and he was OK with it. Like any other guy though, once we got to know each other he started to push for it – not too blatant but he wanted it and I’ve resisted.

Anyhow, over the weekend on Saturday night we went out for dinner and then to a club. I had a great time as I always do with him. When he drove me home he pushed to come to my apartment but I said no because I knew where it might lead. He kissed me in his car but didn’t want me to leave. He kind of suggested that I do something to him and I for some reason kind of slapped his face and pushed him away. He was surprised and it looked like the wind really went out of his sails. He said he didn’t realize he was offending me and said he was sorry. WE both kind of said goodnight and I left. 

When I got upstairs I wanted to cry and kick myself. I don’t know why I reacted like I did. He didn’t do anything wrong (I’ve had guys do plenty worse…). So I texted him an apology and he texted back “no problem.” So yesterday we went for a coffee and I apologized again and he was all cool. 

When we were sitting down, he said he wanted to ask me a few things and that if I wanted to ask him anything to go ahead and ask. So, like out of the blue, he asked me what was the shortest time after seeing a guy that I had sex with him. He also asked what was the longest time that I made a guy wait? I was kind of shocked and didn’t answer. He saw this and just said that I didn’t have to answer then but that we should have a conversation sooner rather than later.

A little later we parted. I’ve been stressing about this all yesterday and today!! How do I answer? Should I be honest? I’ve decided that this coming Friday will be “the night.” I figure I’ll invite him to my place and cook him his favorite and then we’ll let things happen. I’m just worried that he’s going to be all about the questions this week and I don’t know what the best way to respond is.


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## ntamph

If you two are hitting each other this early then you need to break up.

Stop stringing this guy along and using him. 

You're more attracted to him than any other man you've been with but you don't want to have sex with him?

Did you slap your horrible exes in the face when they wanted sex or just the man you want to spend the rest of your life with?


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## Caribbean Man

I think you should be honest with him.
But also be honest about how you really feel about him and that you are feeling pressured by his constant bugging you for sex.

Begging / demanding / pressuring for sex does not make you feel desired or sexy.

Stop blaming yourself, if you are uncomfortable , be honest and tell him you are.
Do not be afraid to loose him over this sex issue.
You have been burnt in the past , tell him this.
The fact is that you like him a lot, and perhaps you want something more from this relationship because the others were failures.
Tell him that.
If he's really worth something , he will understand that it will happen when the time is right.


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## ntamph

This is so stereotypical it's not even funny:

Bad boy exes who treated her like crap got laid immediately but the love of her life has to wait months.


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## Forever Changed

This guy should walk away now.


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## ntamph

Forever Changed said:


> This guy should walk away now.


If he keeps coming back for more after she slapped him then he deserves whatever punishment waits in the future.

Posts like this one remind me of why I need to follow the three date rule.

No one will ever take me for a ride.


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## Caribbean Man

ntamph said:


> This is so stereotypical it's not even funny:
> 
> Bad boy exes who treated her like crap got laid immediately but the love of her life has to wait months.



I don't think it matters how many bad boys she had sex with before.
The fact is , this is HER body and she can do as she damn well pleases with it.

She has decided that the past ones were mistakes, so , should she continue making the same mistake?

Based on how this present boyfriend is acting, my haunch is that he to will turn out to be a mistake.

It is up to Mr. Love of her life here to decide if she is worth waiting for, just like it is up to her to have sex with him when she's ready.

I don't think that she should feel " pressured" to have sex with him because of her past.
That's just stupid.


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## Married but Happy

It's your choice what you do and when, but it always seems backwards to me when women have sex quickly with guys they don't care about, but make the ones they like and want to be with wait. You are testing them, I suppose, to see if they are real. However, as you may be finding out, this could backfire. No man wants to find out he's the one who had to wait. He can interpret that as the previous men being more desirable, more sexy, more "alpha", and he's not. It's a metaphorical slap across the face. A real slap would be an immediate end point, too - unless I actually deserved it by ignoring a "No."

If a man is into you, he may wait, but if he's into you, he will be into you even if you don't make him wait.

Personally, if I learned I was made to wait when no one else had been, I'd assume you were playing games and manipulating me, and I'd be gone.

Anyway, if he pursues these questions, I suggest you be honest with him. Explain that you see him as special and wanted to be sure of that. Hopefully, he'll understand it wasn't intended to be manipulative, just that you wanted to be sure because now it actually matters to you.


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## ntamph

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't think it matters how many bad boys she had sex with before.
> The fact is , this is HER body and she can do as she damn well pleases with it.
> 
> She has decided that the past ones were mistakes, so , should she continue making the same mistake?
> 
> Based on how this present boyfriend is acting, my haunch is that he to will turn out to be a mistake.
> 
> It is up to Mr. Love of her life here to decide if she is worth waiting for, just like it is up to her to have sex with him when she's ready.


The OP states that he's already been waiting quite a long time.

If I found the girl of my dreams then I wouldn't make her wait to see if she's good enough. I would do everything I can to win her love.

He has a right to walk away too.


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## 3Xnocharm

If he is pushing you on this, then not only should you not have sex, you should break it off entirely.


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> This is so stereotypical it's not even funny:
> 
> Bad boy exes who treated her like crap got laid immediately but the love of her life has to wait months.


Do you think it's possible that she learned the hard lesson that if she has sex with a guy too soon things end up badly? She will feel used?

Our popular cultures tells girls to go out and have wild sex with any and every one. it's all about fun. But then over time she learns that the guys are not interested in her, all they wanted is sex. And because she had sex with them she has gotten too attached too soon. So now she's hurt.


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## 3Xnocharm

ntamph said:


> This is so stereotypical it's not even funny:
> 
> Bad boy exes who treated her like crap got laid immediately but the love of her life has to wait months.


Bitter much?


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> The OP states that he's already been waiting quite a long time.
> 
> If I found the girl of my dreams then I wouldn't make her wait to see if she's good enough. I would do everything I can to win her love.
> 
> He has a right to walk away too.


Ah, so to win his love she has to have sex with him?

Yes he does have a right to walk away. And if he walks away after only a few weeks of no sex, she knows that this was really about sex/conquest for him.


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## ntamph

Married but Happy said:


> Anyway, if he pursues these questions, I suggest you be honest with him. Explain that you see him as special and wanted to be sure of that. Hopefully, he'll understand it wasn't intended to be manipulative, just that you wanted to be sure because now it actually matters to you.


This will be kind of hard for her to do considering she thinks he should be slapped for daring to make his sexual interest in her known.


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## Caribbean Man

EleGirl said:


> Do you think it's possible that she learned the hard lesson that if she has sex with a guy too soon things end up badly? She will feel used?
> 
> Our popular cultures tells girls to go out and have wild sex with any and every one. it's all about fun. *But then over time she learns that the guys are not interested in her, all they wanted is sex. And because she had sex with them she has gotten too attached too soon. So now she's hurt.*


My point^^^exactly.


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> This is so stereotypical it's not even funny:
> 
> Bad boy exes who treated her like crap got laid immediately but the love of her life has to wait months.


Just curious, how old are you?


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## ntamph

EleGirl said:


> Do you think it's possible that she learned the hard lesson that if she has sex with a guy too soon things end up badly? She will feel used?
> 
> Our popular cultures tells girls to go out and have wild sex with any and every one. it's all about fun. But then over time she learns that the guys are not interested in her, all they wanted is sex. And because she had sex with them she has gotten too attached too soon. So now she's hurt.


She said that she was attracted to a certain type of guy that had other bad qualities besides wanting only sex.

You avoid those guys and grab one of the good ones as quickly as you can if you really think you found someone special.


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## ntamph

3Xnocharm said:


> Bitter much?



Read the post much?


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## Caribbean Man

ntamph,
You are using circular logic.
If she's confused about having sex , then she's not ready nor is she sure about her feelings for him.

He can either stay or go, but he has absolutely no right to demand or coerce sex, simply because of her past mistakes.

It is illogical to justify a decision by using a past mistake. In any event,for that decision to be right , it must be different from the past, if the past were mistakes.


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## Forever Changed

So many Red Flags.


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## ntamph

Caribbean Man said:


> then she's not ready nor is she sure about her feelings for him.


Wanting to have a serious relationship and bragging about his other qualities is "not sure"?


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## ntamph

Forever Changed said:


> So many Red Flags.


No kidding.

Being slapped and then being OK with it the next day is just asking for a terrible relationship.


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## Forever Changed

That's it.


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## Forever Changed

He really should have thought about this very, very early in the piece and Friendzoned her, before it came to this.


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## ntamph

Forever Changed said:


> He really should have thought about this very, very early in the piece and Friendzoned her, before it came to this.


Yeah, I'm almost more confused by him than her.


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## 3Xnocharm

ntamph said:


> Read the post much?


Yeah, I did. He is pushing, and she is uncomfortable. You dont slap someone like that without a big trigger.


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## EleGirl

Married but Happy said:


> It's your choice what you do and when, but it always seems backwards to me when women have sex quickly with guys they don't care about, but make the ones they like and want to be with wait.


You misunderstood her post. She did not say that she did not care for the other guys she had sex with. She cared for them, had sex with them and then found out over time that the relationship was not good.




Married but Happy said:


> You are testing them, I suppose, to see if they are real. However, as you may be finding out, this could backfire. No man wants to find out he's the one who had to wait. He can interpret that as the previous men being more desirable, more sexy, more "alpha", and he's not. It's a metaphorical slap across the face. A real slap would be an immediate end point, too - unless I actually deserved it by ignoring a "No."


So, according to this, she has to jump in bed with every guy on the same schedule just in case this newest guy is Mr. Right? Is that what you are saying.

Any man who would take her learning that sleeping with a man too early and thus she now wants to wait is not worth her time. He’s Mr. Wrong.



Married but Happy said:


> If a man is into you, he may wait, but if he's into you, he will be into you even if you don't make him wait.


Yea but how does a woman know the difference. When I was young I dated a LOT. I mean a LOT. I has sex with very few. But if I had taken this chance of just jumping in bed with every one of them early on, I’d be labeled a **** by most.. Definitely most men on this forum.

She hardly knows this guy. They have been dating less than 3 months.



Married but Happy said:


> Personally, if I learned I was made to wait when no one else had been, I'd assume you were playing games and manipulating me, and I'd be gone.


That’s sad. It’s sad when a guy thinks he’s entitled to sex with a women he hardly knows and is have not even committed to. It’s sad that when a man labels a woman by their previous sexual experience, saying that once she has sex early with a guy she must have sex early with all men she ever goes out with forever.


Married but Happy said:


> Anyway, if he pursues these questions, I suggest you be honest with him. Explain that you see him as special and wanted to be sure of that. Hopefully, he'll understand it wasn't intended to be manipulative, just that you wanted to be sure because now it actually matters to you.


Yes it’s manipulative. It’s a way to guilt and intimidate her into having sex with him.


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## Forever Changed

As I am. The man should have *thought.*


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> Yeah, I'm almost more confused by him than her.


How soon after you meet a woman do you feel she owes you sex?


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## ntamph

3Xnocharm said:


> Yeah, I did. He is pushing, and she is uncomfortable. You dont slap someone like that without a big trigger.


If he placed his hands on her then I would have advised her to call the police.

But, if it was just a regular come on from a man who she wants to build a serious relationship with and who she sees as better than any ex then she needs to examine herself.


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## Forever Changed

Guilting and intimidating her? Takes a lot of energy. 

Walk away boyfriend!

NOW!


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> Wanting to have a serious relationship and bragging about his other qualities is "not sure"?


Nope, she is not sure. It takes a lot longer than 2-3 months to find out who a person is. Anyone can put on a good show for a few months.


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## ntamph

Let's say a man has been used by his exes for his money (women went on dates with him but then broke up after he wanted the relationship to move further).

Should any woman he dates in the future be happy with a date at McDonald's because he needs to evaluate their true intentions?


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## ntamph

EleGirl said:


> It takes a lot longer than 2-3 months to find out who a person is.


Except of course all her exes.


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## Forever Changed

Oh, of course. God I feel sorry for this poor fellow and I've no idea who he even is.


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> She said that she was attracted to a certain type of guy that had other bad qualities besides wanting only sex.
> 
> You avoid those guys and grab one of the good ones as quickly as you can if you really think you found someone special.


It's a learning process.

When she was attracted to the wrong kind of guy, she thought that she was attracted to the right kind of guy. IT took her time to learn that they were the wrong kind of guy.. and she found this out only after she made the mistake of having sex with them. So now she's learned.

She's learned to be conscious. 

There are more than one of bad/wrong guy. She does not know yet if this new guy is the right guy or truly a good guy. She does not know if he is really special.

She's dating him to find out if he's truly special. 2-3 months is not enough time to know this.


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## ntamph

She has specifically stated that she sees this man as completely different and above her exes. That's why she's so excited about him.


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> Except of course all her exes.


How hard is it to understand that she has learned that she got too deeply involved too early with those exes?

Do you believe that people cannot learn from their past experiences? 

Or do you think that once a woman has sex she owes it to every man she goes out with.


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## Forever Changed

ntamph said:


> she has specifically stated that she sees this man as completely different and above her exes.


Red.

Flag.


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## ntamph

EleGirl said:


> How hard is it to understand that she has learned that she got too deeply involved too early with those exes?
> 
> Do you believe that people cannot learn from their past experiences?
> 
> Or do you think that once a woman has sex she owes it to every man she goes out with.


She HAS learned from her past.

She is excited because he IS different. So why is she treating him so coldly and violently?


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> She has specifically stated that she sees this man as completely different and above her exes. That's why she's so excited about him.


Are you really this naive? Sure in 2-3 months she thinks that he's completely different. He might be completely different. But he might not be a good different in the long run. He might be a real jerk and he has not yet shown that side of himself. 

It takes months to get to know a person.


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## WorkingOnMe

She's not into him enough to give it up. He's just starting to figure it out. He needs to move on.


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## Forever Changed

ntamph said:


> She HAS learned from her past.
> 
> She is excited because he IS different. So why is she treating him so coldly and violently?


This is, in my opinion, is an unanswerable question. 

Perhaps EleGirl has some advice on this one.


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## krismimo

She has a right to say no. But she doesn't have a right to start hitting him. I don't condone violence I don't care who it is. I don't think him asking her those questions are a bad thing he wants to know where he stands. They have been in a relationship for awhile. So him being upfront with her to me is not a bad thing. To be honest I think the way he handled her hitting him gives him beyond brownie points. If someone is being that violent especially that early on and he didn't deserve it than most guys would have run.


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> She HAS learned from her past.
> 
> She is excited because he IS different. So why is she treating him so coldly and violently?


She's not treating him coldly. She does not owe him sex.

Why do you think she owes him sex?

Why did she slap him? I was not there. Either she engages in inappropriate slapping and he needs to run as fast as he can from her... or he did something that sort of shocked her and offended her and it was a sort-of gut reaction to what he did.


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## ntamph

If I had chronically experienced sexless relationships for my entire life and found a women who actually wants me, I wouldn't be taking her on cheap dates and taking my time with her. I would be kissing the ground she walked on.


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## EleGirl

krismimo said:


> She has a right to say no. But she doesn't have a right to start hitting him. I don't condone violence I don't care who it is. I don't think him asking her those questions are a bad thing he wants to know where he stands. They have been in a relationship for awhile. So him being upfront with her to me is not a bad thing. To be honest I think the way he handled her hitting him gives him beyond brownie points. If someone is being that violent especially that early on and he didn't deserve it than most guys would have run.


The questions he is asking is not to ask her where he stands with her.

The questions are about her sexual past. That's a very different thing. That's the start of him judging her for her past and of him pushing her.. saying she owes him now.


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## Forever Changed

He should have Friendzoned her from the start.

He should NOT have dared to make his interest known. 

Of course she doesn't 'owe' him sex.


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## WorkingOnMe

This is a case where she's sexual with another type of man but not him. If they marry, she'll continue a pattern of withholding.


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## krismimo

No she didn't she admitted it that hitting him was uncalled for and he didn't deserve it.. which is why she apologized...


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## EleGirl

krismimo said:


> She has a right to say no. But she doesn't have a right to start hitting him. I don't condone violence I don't care who it is. I don't think him asking her those questions are a bad thing he wants to know where he stands. They have been in a relationship for awhile. So him being upfront with her to me is not a bad thing. To be honest I think the way he handled her hitting him gives him beyond brownie points. If someone is being that violent especially that early on and he didn't deserve it than most guys would have run.


The questions he is asking is not to ask her where he stands with her.

The questions are about her sexual past. That's a very different thing. That's the start of him judging her for her past and of him pushing her.. saying she owes him now.

I know very few guys who would run if they asked a woman to do them in the car, after she's told him that she does not want to be sexual yet, and she slaps him. 

Do you know what he did? Do you know what he asked her to do? No you do not.


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## ntamph

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is a case where she's sexual with another type of man but not him. If they marry, she'll continue a pattern of withholding.


As surely as the sun will rise tomorrow............


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## krismimo

EleGirl said:


> The questions he is asking is not to ask her where he stands with her.
> 
> The questions are about her sexual past. That's a very different thing. That's the start of him judging her for her past and of him pushing her.. saying she owes him now.


which is why when he asked her these questions she should have clued him in. Last time I checked he was in the relationship too. All we are getting is one side. I look at both sides, that still DOES NOT give her the right to put hands on him especially if he didn't deserve it...


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## WorkingOnMe

EleGirl said:


> The questions he is asking is not to ask her where he stands with her.
> 
> The questions are about her sexual past. That's a very different thing. That's the start of him judging her for her past and of him pushing her.. saying she owes him now.


Not only is he asking where he stands, he's realizing exactly where he at...at the bottom of the list. If she was into him she would be showing it.


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## ntamph

If he has to jump through so many hoops just to get to the first time imagine what he'll have to do when kids, money problems, ect come along.


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## krismimo

WorkingOnMe said:


> Not only is he asking where he stands, he's realizing exactly where he at...at the bottom of the list. If she was into him she would be showing it.


EXACTLY!! How the heck should he not be able to ask that especially after she slapped him?! COME ON!!


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## Forever Changed

... and that is why he should walk.

This would be funny if it wasn't so cliched.


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## krismimo

Not just walk but run run full speed ahead...


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## WorkingOnMe

I can see how it would be awkward if the answer is 'well everybody else got it in the first few dates but I decided to make you wait. Doesn't that make you feel special?'


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## ntamph

I can imagine that poor SOB now: probably has had little success with women, little sex and will now put up with being "down boyed" like a dog for a little action.


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## ntamph

WorkingOnMe said:


> I can see how it would be awkward if the answer is 'well everybody else got it in the first few dates but I decided to make you wait. Doesn't that make you feel special?'


According to many on the forum THIS IS THE GREATEST COMPLIMENT THAT ANY MAN COULD EVER HOPE FOR.


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## tom67

WorkingOnMe said:


> She's not into him enough to give it up. He's just starting to figure it out. He needs to move on.


Exactly if she doesn't want sex with him, fine. doesn't this sound like the "nice" guy we preach mmslp in cwi? I think so. I see it coming.


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## Forever Changed

ntamph said:


> I can imagine that poor SOB now: probably has had little success with women, little sex and will now put up with being "down boyed" like a dog for a little action.


My sentiments exactly.

Poor bastard.


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## EleGirl

JaneDoe2013,

Pay attention to what the men here are saying. All of them except Caribbean Man are saying things that you really need to pay attention to.

Basically he's asking you these questions because he's pissed that you have not had sex with him. He thinks you owe him. So now he wants to know about your previous sexual experiences. What's he going to do with that info?

either he's going to walk because he did not get into your pants as soon as some other guy did. He's not going to care if that experience hurt you and you want to be more careful. All he cares about is that some other guy is got you earlier on then he did .. so he'll walk.

Or he will use the knowledge of your past to start really pushing you into sex. He will guilt trip you. And for the rest of your relationship he'll use it against you.

I have never had a man ask me about my previous sexual experiences. I've never asked any guy about his experiences. Why? Because what matters is what goes on between the two of us.

Do not have sex with him they way you are planning. You are doing it out of guilt for slapping him.

Instead this week answer his questions. Stop if he starts to get angry or starts to push you to have sex with him. Tell him that you have learned that having sex too early in a relationship does not work out well. 

Then let him go off and think about it.

Only continue your relationship with him if he does not use your past to try to try to get sex form you.

You have only known him for 2-3 months. It takes 1-2 YEARS to know if a person is a long term relationship material.

You are about to find out something very important about this guy. Find it out before you have sex with him.


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## tom67

krismimo said:


> EXACTLY!! How the heck should he not be able to ask that especially after she slapped him?! COME ON!!


If he was smart he will be busy on friday, something came up. Asking those questions will make him look like a beaten puppy imo.


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## JustHer

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't think it matters how many bad boys she had sex with before.
> The fact is , this is HER body and she can do as she damn well pleases with it.
> 
> She has decided that the past ones were mistakes, so , should she continue making the same mistake?
> 
> Based on how this present boyfriend is acting, my haunch is that he to will turn out to be a mistake.
> 
> It is up to Mr. Love of her life here to decide if she is worth waiting for, just like it is up to her to have sex with him when she's ready.
> 
> I don't think that she should feel " pressured" to have sex with him because of her past.
> That's just stupid.


OP, this is the best piece of advice on your thread - and it is from a man.

I completely agree with this. Why should a woman constantly have to be living with her past. If she wakes up one day and says "the next guy I sleep with will be my husband on our wedding night" then she should be allowed to do this. 

You owe this guy nothing just because you are not a virgin.


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## ntamph

EleGirl said:


> It takes 1-2 YEARS to know if a person is a long term relationship material.


Dead serious question:

If he continues to be on his best behavior, would it be reasonable for him to wait that long?


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## tom67

For the record, forcing someone to have sex is WRONG I think we all agree. He should move on though.


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## EleGirl

JustHer said:


> OP, this is the best piece of advice on your thread - and it is from a man.
> 
> I completely agree with this. Why should a woman constantly have to be living with her past. If she wakes up one day and says "the next guy I sleep with will be my husband on our wedding night" then she should be allowed to do this.
> 
> You owe this guy nothing just because you are not a virgin.


The funny thing is that the man who said that was a real player when he was single. Now he's has a long term, very good, marriage to the woman he loves. If there is a man on this forum who she should be listening to ... It's Caribbean Man.


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## Forever Changed

Jesus.

This guy has been totally demoized by the women here.

Sigh.

I'm out.


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## Caribbean Man

Look, 
Any man who has to ask a woman whom he is dating ,for sex does not know his way around women.

Women respond to seduction , not " 20 questions" or an entitlement attitude about sex.

I have NEVER had to ask any woman for sex or find out
" where I stood " with her. These type of questions indicate that he lacks the finesse to seduce her mind and that he's behind the 8 ball.

My guess is that this guy has had trouble in the past with getting sex from other women whom he has dated.


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## ntamph

The man should be careful about being held responsible for the actions of men he has never known.

He's the one "focusing on the past"? Please............


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## norajane

[URL="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/members/janedoe2013.html" said:


> JaneDoe2013][/URL] Anyhow, over the weekend on Saturday night we went out for dinner and then to a club. I had a great time as I always do with him. When he drove me home he pushed to come to my apartment but I said no because I knew where it might lead. He kissed me in his car but didn’t want me to leave.* He kind of suggested that I do something to him* and I for some reason kind of slapped his face and pushed him away. He was surprised and it looked like the wind really went out of his sails. He said he didn’t realize he was offending me and said he was sorry. WE both kind of said goodnight and I left.


Did he ask you for a bj or handjob _in the car_ after your date? Ugh, gross.

Good thing you're finding out who he is. He may be just as much of a mistake as your exes.

Don't be defensive about your sexual history. He probably has some things in his that wouldn't sit well with you, either. If he judges you for it, then he's not the right guy for you.


----------



## ntamph

Caribbean Man said:


> My guess is that this guy has had trouble in the past with getting sex from other women.


Exactly. It's usually the men who treat women right (as the boyfriend has apparently for the past 3 months) that have trouble getting sex.

But men who use women and who leave them scarred for life sexually always get it pretty damn easily.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

OP I don't think you owe him or anyone sex. But I do believe that your actions (or lack of) show your real feelings for him.


----------



## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> Dead serious question:
> 
> If he continues to be on his best behavior, would it be reasonable for him to wait that long?


It depends on THEIR relationship.

Our society has been so promiscuous that some think that they are owed sex within hours or days of meeting a woman. 

Yet, those same guy call women who sleep with men easily all kinds of bad names, look down on them, etc. Why exactly would any woman want to participate in this?

The one man here who has a good, strong, happy marriage did wait for along time before having sex.. he waited until his wedding night. And he's no Mr. Nice Guy either. He's a bad boy .... 

Maybe he's the man you should be taking some clues from.


----------



## ladybird

I don't get what the big deal is over making a guy wait!! It is her choice if she wants to jump in bed with someone on the first second date or make them wait a little while before going there. 

I made my husband wait for 2 months before we had sex. I made him wait because I didn't want our relationship to be based on sex. I wanted to get to know him a little before. He never pushed me though.


----------



## ntamph

WorkingOnMe said:


> OP I don't think you owe him or anyone sex. But I do believe that your actions (or lack of) show your real feelings for him.


I agree 100%.


----------



## tom67

WorkingOnMe said:


> OP I don't think you owe him or anyone sex. But I do believe that your actions (or lack of) show your real feelings for him.


That's it. That is a fair statement.


----------



## tom67

He sounds like a "nice guy" and she doesn't have the hots for him I get that.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Caribbean Man said:


> Look,
> Any man who has to ask a woman whom he is dating ,for sex does not know his way around women.
> 
> Women respond to seduction , not " 20 questions" or an entitlement attitude about sex.
> 
> I have NEVER had to ask any woman for sex or find out
> " where I stood " with her. These type of questions indicate that he lacks the finesse to seduce her mind and that he's behind the 8 ball.
> 
> My guess is that this guy has had trouble in the past with getting sex from other women whom he has dated.


I agree with this. Honestly I would have realized I wasn't clicking with this one long before and moved on. No need to ask the questions. I figure the attraction is either there or it's not. Waiting for months won't change it.


----------



## norajane

Oh, is this another troll thread? One-post-wonder with lots of angry fighting amongst the rest.


----------



## ntamph

tom67 said:


> He sounds like a "nice guy" and she doesn't have the hots for him I get that.


Exactly. He has no right to demand sex but she needs to stop pretending she's attracted to him.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

You've gone out with him a little over 2 months, so that's like 10 dates maybe? You said he's inquired about sex with you, but he hasn't been pushy, just interested.

After 9-10 weeks, he asks to come up to your place and you refuse (which is certainly your right). He makes a suggestion which in your opinion was NOT offensive per se, and you slapped him!?!


He's seen you for going-on three months.
He has waited patiently and agreed thus far to the no-sex line.
When he makes a suggestion regarding a sexual dalliance (after more than two months), you attacked him for it (physically and verbally).
He now wants to know what your past sexual history is.
Now you're going to have sex with him this Friday.
WHY? 
Because you want to?
Because you're afraid he'll dump you if you don't? (especially after you slapped him for suggesting it?)

It doesn't seem to me that you're intending to have sex with him for the correct reasons. It seems to me that you're interested in him as a possible long-term relationship, but you're willing to "give in" to sex with him sooner than you want to in order to maintain the relationship.

Short of a frank and fair discussion, I don't see this relationship going well even if you give it up on Friday night.

Why he would stay with you after you slapped him is beyond me; I'm not picking on you, I just find that a REALLY EGREGIOUS mistake. You admitted you were not all that offended by his suggestion (or are you revising things now that you're afraid you might lose him?), so why the face-slapping? I'm offended FOR this man and I'm a woman!

I'm thinking you should give up dating ANYONE for the next 4-6 months and concentrate on making yourself a healthier person. I would (humbly) suggest that you might try "Codependent No More" as a good place to start reading.


----------



## tom67

norajane said:


> Oh, is this another troll thread? One-post-wonder with lots of angry fighting amongst the rest.


Lately you never know.


----------



## EleGirl

norajane said:


> Oh, is this another troll thread? One-post-wonder with lots of angry fighting amongst the rest.


Yep, I'm getting tired of these one post wonders. they waste our time. If someone has a real issue they stay around and discuss it.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> You've gone out with him a little over 2 months, so that's like 10 dates maybe? You said he's inquired about sex with you, but he hasn't been pushy, just interested.
> 
> After 9-10 weeks, he asks to come up to your place and you refuse (which is certainly your right). He makes a suggestion which in your opinion was NOT offensive per se, and you slapped him!?!
> 
> 
> He's seen you for going-on three months.
> He has waited patiently and agreed thus far to the no-sex line.
> When he makes a suggestion regarding a sexual dalliance (after more than two months), you attacked him for it (physically and verbally).
> He now wants to know what your past sexual history is.
> Now you're going to have sex with him this Friday.
> WHY?
> Because you want to?
> Because you're afraid he'll dump you if you don't? (especially after you slapped him for suggesting it?)
> 
> It doesn't seem to me that you're intending to have sex with him for the correct reasons. It seems to me that you're interested in him as a possible long-term relationship, but you're willing to "give in" to sex with him sooner than you want to in order to maintain the relationship.
> 
> Short of a frank and fair discussion, I don't see this relationship going well even if you give it up on Friday night.
> 
> Why he would stay with you after you slapped him is beyond me; I'm not picking on you, I just find that a REALLY EGREGIOUS mistake. You admitted you were not all that offended by his suggestion (or are you revising things now that you're afraid you might lose him?), so why the face-slapping? I'm offended FOR this man and I'm a woman!
> 
> I'm thinking you should give up dating ANYONE for the next 4-6 months and concentrate on making yourself a healthier person. I would (humbly) suggest that you might try "Codependent No More" as a good place to start reading.


When you list it out like that she sounds like she uses sex to manipulate.


----------



## ntamph

WorkingOnMe said:


> When you list it out like that she sounds like she uses sex to manipulate.


What do you call assuming that a man will behave the way her exes did and then treating him based on what she needs to protect herself from men she is no longer with?

He had a curiosity about her past. She has built the entire relationship based on what has happened to her in the past. The boyfriend is not her boyfriend to her, he's every man who has ever treated her badly.

How does a relationship work in this situation?


----------



## tom67

ntamph said:


> What do you call assuming that a man will behave the way her exes did and then treating him based on what she needs to protect herself from men she is no longer with?
> 
> He had a curiosity about her past. She has built the entire relationship based on what has happened to her in the past. The boyfriend is not her boyfriend to her, he's every man who has ever treated her badly.
> 
> How does a relationship work in this situation?


From the looks of it her issues are going to derail this relationship and probably others could use some ic and he could use no more mr nice guy but believe me I'm nothing special.


----------



## JaneDoe2013

Hi everybody. Sorry I haven't responded but tonight has been a bad night. I've read all your comments and don't know where to begin.

Alot of you commented on my slapping him. He didn't deserve it. I really don't know why I did it. Maybe it was just a reflex or something.

He really has been a gentleman all along and believe me I know the difference. So telling me to leave him is just not right. (I'm worried that as others said, he's going to leave me!)

In all my dating life I've only had two other guys who were good guys. One was in college and the other was almost three years ago and I don't really want to get into details, but they were kind of along the same lines. I've found that the guys who don't ask questions are the ones who don't care, period. It never lasts with them. The guys that do ask for info are the ones that actually DO care (and want more than just sex) and I'd want to date. Just took me a while to figure all that out


----------



## JaneDoe2013

As far as why he's asking questions, yes I know. He's trying to figure out if I've had sex sooner in the past. My problem is that I usually do (or have before I met him). So if I'm honest, he won't be happy for sure. And I don't want to lie, especially to THIS guy because he has not been like the others.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

JaneDoe2013 said:


> As far as why he's asking questions, yes I know. He's trying to figure out if I've had sex sooner in the past. My problem is that I usually do (or have before I met him). So if I'm honest, he won't be happy for sure. And I don't want to lie, especially to THIS guy because he has not been like the others.


If you tell the truth he's obviously going to know that you're not as sexually attracted to him as the guys from your past. He'll know that he's the beta provider that you settled for. It won't be pretty.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

I have to say that I don't see how you could possibly take offense at his inquiring about your previous sexual experience.

Considering you slapped him (not to harp on a point) for making a sexual suggestion, I can see where he might wonder if you're LD, waiting for marriage, formerly-abused, etc. I am not passing judgment on ANY of those situations, merely pointing out that he would RIGHTLY be confused (if a suggestion gets a face slap! It's not like you're a blushing 16yo virgin) and he may be UNWILLING to be involved with a woman who meets any of these criteria; and it would certainly be within his rights to not want to be involved if he so chooses.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Woman-up and tell him the TRUTH.

He deserves it and you'll be a better person for it. Let the chips fall where they may. Tell him WHY you're a different person now AND WHY you believe he's different from your previous SOs.

No good relationship is going to come from a foundation of lying or coloring the truth.


----------



## Truthseeker1

JaneDoe2013 said:


> Hi everybody. Sorry I haven't responded but tonight has been a bad night. I've read all your comments and don't know where to begin.
> 
> Alot of you commented on my slapping him. He didn't deserve it. I really don't know why I did it. Maybe it was just a reflex or something.
> 
> He really has been a gentleman all along and believe me I know the difference. So telling me to leave him is just not right. (I'm worried that as others said, he's going to leave me!)
> 
> In all my dating life I've only had two other guys who were good guys. One was in college and the other was almost three years ago and I don't really want to get into details, but they were kind of along the same lines. I've found that the guys who don't ask questions are the ones who don't care, period. It never lasts with them. The guys that do ask for info are the ones that actually DO care (and want more than just sex) and I'd want to date. Just took me a while to figure all that out


*Do not feel pressured into sex* - but you two do need to* communicate*. It seems like you have conflicting expectations. Talk about what you want - ask him what he wants. Lay it all out there.

For the record the slap was unacceptable. Hitting someone unless it is in self defense is inexcusable. He should have dumped you after the slap - since you have admitted he did not deserve it and he is a gentleman. Have you hit any of your previous boyfriends or have been hit? He must be pretty confused now and thinking being a nice guy does not pay.


----------



## EleGirl

JaneDoe2013 said:


> As far as why he's asking questions, yes I know. He's trying to figure out if I've had sex sooner in the past. My problem is that I usually do (or have before I met him). So if I'm honest, he won't be happy for sure. And I don't want to lie, especially to THIS guy because he has not been like the others.


Do you find him more or less sexually attractive as the guy you has sex with early in the relationship?


----------



## JaneDoe2013

So to bring things up to date, we spoke earlier on the phone and I told him that I was planning a great meal for him this Friday and that I was really looking forward to our time together. He didn't really sound all that overjoyed. He said he wanted to talk and I got nervous. He asked me if I had thought about what he had asked me. I said yeah but that it doesn't really matter and that what matters is what we have now. He did not disagree but he didn't agree either. 

He told me that he respects me alot and that I should know that by now. I told him that I did know that. He also said that he has "strong feelings" for me (his words). And that if I'm not ready for sex he understands. He also added though, and this is the crappy part, that he's OK waiting if that's how I've been with guys I've dated in the past. He said that if I had sex early on with other guys he would not be understanding. He then asked me flat out how long I made "the last guy" wait. I kind o f stalled and basically told him that we should be discussing all this stuff in person and not on the phone and he said OK. So he might be coming over in a bit. I don't know what to do.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Actions > words

You not only said no after months, you said no with a slap. And he's about to find out you said yes to the last guy after how long?


----------



## Truthseeker1

JaneDoe2013 said:


> So to bring things up to date, we spoke earlier on the phone and I told him that I was planning a great meal for him this Friday and that I was really looking forward to our time together. He didn't really sound all that overjoyed. He said he wanted to talk and I got nervous. He asked me if I had thought about what he had asked me. I said yeah but that it doesn't really matter and that what matters is what we have now. He did not disagree but he didn't agree either.
> 
> He told me that he respects me alot and that I should know that by now. I told him that I did know that. He also said that he has "strong feelings" for me (his words). And that if I'm not ready for sex he understands. He also added though, and this is the crappy part, that he's OK waiting if that's how I've been with guys I've dated in the past. He said that if I had sex early on with other guys he would not be understanding. He then asked me flat out how long I made "the last guy" wait. I kind o f stalled and basically told him that we should be discussing all this stuff in person and not on the phone and he said OK. So he might be coming over in a bit.* I don't know what to do.*


Just be hoonest with your feelings...I can tell he is feeling confused and a bit angry.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Tell him THE TRUTH, that is what you do.

If you LIE to him, it's like saying that you don't really believe in your OWN reasons for making him wait. You don't have the courage of your own convictions.

You're either waiting for the right reasons or you're not; only YOU can know that.


----------



## Phenix70

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> You've gone out with him a little over 2 months, so that's like 10 dates maybe? You said he's inquired about sex with you, but he hasn't been pushy, just interested.
> 
> After 9-10 weeks, he asks to come up to your place and you refuse (which is certainly your right). He makes a suggestion which in your opinion was NOT offensive per se, and you slapped him!?!
> 
> 
> He's seen you for going-on three months.
> He has waited patiently and agreed thus far to the no-sex line.
> When he makes a suggestion regarding a sexual dalliance (after more than two months), you attacked him for it (physically and verbally).
> He now wants to know what your past sexual history is.
> Now you're going to have sex with him this Friday.
> WHY?
> Because you want to?
> Because you're afraid he'll dump you if you don't? (especially after you slapped him for suggesting it?)
> 
> It doesn't seem to me that you're intending to have sex with him for the correct reasons. It seems to me that you're interested in him as a possible long-term relationship, but you're willing to "give in" to sex with him sooner than you want to in order to maintain the relationship.
> 
> Short of a frank and fair discussion, I don't see this relationship going well even if you give it up on Friday night.
> 
> Why he would stay with you after you slapped him is beyond me; I'm not picking on you, I just find that a REALLY EGREGIOUS mistake. You admitted you were not all that offended by his suggestion (or are you revising things now that you're afraid you might lose him?), so why the face-slapping? I'm offended FOR this man and I'm a woman!
> 
> I'm thinking you should give up dating ANYONE for the next 4-6 months and concentrate on making yourself a healthier person. I would (humbly) suggest that you might try "Codependent No More" as a good place to start reading.


Agreed!!
I'm shocked you slapped him & that he is still interested in you.
It seems like everyone is posting about him asking about your sexual past & very few have even touched on the fact you hit him!!
WTH!!?
I do hope he does run far & fast from this situation, as I cannot condone ANYONE laying hands on another, unless it's only a case of self defense.
So unless he was trying to force you to perform that sexual act, you were way out of line to slap him. 
Maybe you should focus on why you felt slapping was the right reaction to whatever he asked you to do, as opposed to telling him no & walking away.


----------



## tom67

JaneDoe2013 said:


> So to bring things up to date, we spoke earlier on the phone and I told him that I was planning a great meal for him this Friday and that I was really looking forward to our time together. He didn't really sound all that overjoyed. He said he wanted to talk and I got nervous. He asked me if I had thought about what he had asked me. I said yeah but that it doesn't really matter and that what matters is what we have now. He did not disagree but he didn't agree either.
> 
> He told me that he respects me alot and that I should know that by now. I told him that I did know that. He also said that he has "strong feelings" for me (his words). And that if I'm not ready for sex he understands. He also added though, and this is the crappy part, that he's OK waiting if that's how I've been with guys I've dated in the past. He said that if I had sex early on with other guys he would not be understanding. He then asked me flat out how long I made "the last guy" wait. I kind o f stalled and basically told him that we should be discussing all this stuff in person and not on the phone and he said OK. So he might be coming over in a bit. I don't know what to do.


SIGH I think he sees the writing on the wall. Two months been a gentleman he takes you out buys you meals drinks and then gets slapped?


----------



## Truthseeker1

Phenix70 said:


> Agreed!!
> I'm shocked you slapped him & that he is still interested in you.
> It seems like everyone is posting about him asking about your sexual past & very few have even touched on the fact you hit him!!
> WTH!!?
> I do hope he does run far & fast from this situation, as I cannot condone ANYONE laying hands on another, unless it's only a case of self defense.
> So unless he was trying to force you to perform that sexual act, you were way out of line to slap him.
> Maybe you should focus on why you felt slapping was the right reaction to whatever he asked you to do, as opposed to telling him no & walking away.


Yeah I'm surpised the slap was not more of an issue in this thread...


----------



## tom67

JaneDoe if you don't mind could you give us your ages please.


----------



## Entropy3000

JaneDoe2013 said:


> Hi everyone. I’m a long time reader, but first time poster. I have an awkward dating situation thing that I need to fix.
> 
> A little while ago I met a new guy that I liked right away so when he asked me out I was really happy. We really clicked and we started dating. That was a little over two months ago. Being with him is fun, exciting, and very comfortable – he really brings out the best in me. In the past I was attracted to a different kind of guy and it never worked out. So with my new guy I really want it to develop into a serious relationship. I decided not to rush things as far as sex was concerned and he was OK with it. Like any other guy though, once we got to know each other he started to push for it – not too blatant but he wanted it and I’ve resisted.
> 
> Anyhow, over the weekend on Saturday night we went out for dinner and then to a club. I had a great time as I always do with him. When he drove me home he pushed to come to my apartment but I said no because I knew where it might lead. He kissed me in his car but didn’t want me to leave. He kind of suggested that I do something to him and I for some reason kind of slapped his face and pushed him away. He was surprised and it looked like the wind really went out of his sails. He said he didn’t realize he was offending me and said he was sorry. WE both kind of said goodnight and I left.
> 
> When I got upstairs I wanted to cry and kick myself. I don’t know why I reacted like I did. He didn’t do anything wrong (I’ve had guys do plenty worse…). So I texted him an apology and he texted back “no problem.” So yesterday we went for a coffee and I apologized again and he was all cool.
> 
> When we were sitting down, he said he wanted to ask me a few things and that if I wanted to ask him anything to go ahead and ask. So, like out of the blue, he asked me what was the shortest time after seeing a guy that I had sex with him. He also asked what was the longest time that I made a guy wait? I was kind of shocked and didn’t answer. He saw this and just said that I didn’t have to answer then but that we should have a conversation sooner rather than later.
> 
> A little later we parted. I’ve been stressing about this all yesterday and today!! How do I answer? Should I be honest? I’ve decided that this coming Friday will be “the night.” I figure I’ll invite him to my place and cook him his favorite and then we’ll let things happen. I’m just worried that he’s going to be all about the questions this week and I don’t know what the best way to respond is.


Women Have Become Too Easy - AskMen

Read this. You can disagree but many guys are starting to feel this way.


----------



## Nucking Futs

EleGirl said:


> She's not treating him coldly. She does not owe him sex.
> 
> Why do you think she owes him sex?
> 
> Why did she slap him? I was not there. *Either she engages in inappropriate slapping and he needs to run as fast as he can from her... or he did something that sort of shocked her and offended her and it was a sort-of gut reaction to what he did.*


So if a woman does something that sort of shocks and offends a man it's ok to slap her?


----------



## tom67

Entropy3000 said:


> Women Have Become Too Easy - AskMen
> 
> Read this. You can disagree but many guys are starting to feel this way.


Great article.


----------



## Nucking Futs

JaneDoe2013 said:


> So to bring things up to date, we spoke earlier on the phone and I told him that I was planning a great meal for him this Friday and that I was really looking forward to our time together. He didn't really sound all that overjoyed. He said he wanted to talk and I got nervous. He asked me if I had thought about what he had asked me. I said yeah but that it doesn't really matter and that what matters is what we have now. He did not disagree but he didn't agree either.
> 
> He told me that he respects me alot and that I should know that by now. I told him that I did know that. He also said that he has "strong feelings" for me (his words). And that if I'm not ready for sex he understands. *He also added though, and this is the crappy part, that he's OK waiting if that's how I've been with guys I've dated in the past. He said that if I had sex early on with other guys he would not be understanding.* He then asked me flat out how long I made "the last guy" wait. I kind o f stalled and basically told him that we should be discussing all this stuff in person and not on the phone and he said OK. So he might be coming over in a bit. *I don't know what to do.*


Don't lie about it. If this guy is worth building a relationship with then he's too valuable to build it on fraud. Tell him the truth. Expect him to walk. After the way you treated him I'm surprised he's even willing to talk with you anymore, and you can expect him to end it when he finds out how you've treated him with so much less respect than your previous lovers. And make no mistake about it, you have severely disrespected him.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Entropy3000 said:


> Those are all too common. Typically a setup. Fun with email accounts.


Although some troll threads do start really good "debates"


----------



## tom67

Truthseeker1 said:


> Although some troll threads do start really good "debates"


:slap: You got me there. This is an important topic especially for the younger guys imo.


----------



## Truthseeker1

tom67 said:


> :slap: You got me there. This is an important topic especially for the younger guys imo.


I think some self described "nice guys" are manipulative in their own ways....men should have self-respect and be neither a predator nor a doormat...go for what you want...and leave the "knight in shining armor" act for Renfair....in this case if he is not happy then move on to a partner that will give him what he wants....


----------



## tom67

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think some self described "nice guys" are manipulative in their own ways....men should have self-respect and be neither a predator nor a doormat...go for what you want...and leave the "knight in shining armor" act for Renfair....in this case if he is not happy then move on to a partner that will give him what he wants....


yep:iagree::iagree:


----------



## EleGirl

Entropy3000 said:


> Women Have Become Too Easy - AskMen
> 
> Read this. You can disagree but many guys are starting to feel this way.


She's working at not being easy. But it seems that men do not accept that a woman can change and learn what this article is saying. 

Most of the men on this thread are saying that whatever the least amount of time she waiting for sex with any guy in the past, she must give it up on that timeframe forever to every guy she dates... or he should take huge offense and dump her.


----------



## tom67

EleGirl said:


> She's working at not being easy. But it seems that men do not accept that a woman can change and learn what this article is saying.
> 
> Most of the men on this thread are saying that whatever the least amount of time she waiting for sex with any guy in the past, she must give it up on that timeframe forever to every guy she dates... or he should take huge offense and dump her.


I have to give Will Kane credit for this "You can't control her, but you can control what you will put up with"


----------



## EleGirl

Nucking Futs said:


> Don't lie about it. If this guy is worth building a relationship with then he's too valuable to build it on fraud. Tell him the truth. Expect him to walk. After the way you treated him I'm surprised he's even willing to talk with you anymore, and you can expect him to end it when he finds out how you've treated him with so much less respect than your previous lovers. And make no mistake about it, you have severely disrespected him.


Just curious. How do you see that she has seriously disrespected him?

Was it the slap?

Was it her wanting to wait for sex now that she knows better than to jump in bed with a guy quickly?


----------



## Nucking Futs

EleGirl said:


> She's working at not being easy. But it seems that men do not accept that a woman can change and learn what this article is saying.
> 
> Most of the men on this thread are saying that whatever the least amount of time she waiting for sex with any guy in the past, she must give it up on that timeframe forever to every guy she dates... or he should take huge offense and dump her.


He should have taken huge offense and dumped her when she slapped him for no reason, something you seem determined to minimize. Is it your opinion that women have a right to slap men and we should just take it?


----------



## Truthseeker1

EleGirl said:


> She's working at not being easy. But it seems that men do not accept that a woman can change and learn what this article is saying.
> 
> Most of the men on this thread are saying that whatever the least amount of time she waiting for sex with any guy in the past, she must give it up on that timeframe forever to every guy she dates... or he should take huge offense and dump her.


You have a point. Some men do not look at it that way - what they see is that she gave the other guys a good time and they treated her like crap and he's a gentleman and he gets to hold her hand and be sexually frustrated for months. It is a matter of perspective. I don't know this young man (they seem young to this old fogie lol) but he needs to decide what he wants and go for it. If she doesn't make him happy then move on to someone who will give him what wants. Perhaps he needs some sexual advenntures like she did and learn his own hard lessons.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> He should have taken huge offense and dumped her when she slapped him for no reason, something you seem determined to minimize. Is it your opinion that women have a right to slap men and we should just take it?


Boys are taught this today.


----------



## EleGirl

Nucking Futs said:


> So if a woman does something that sort of shocks and offends a man it's ok to slap her?


Well, if I'm dating a guy and it's only been a few weeks, and I've been clear that I do not agree to sex yet... then in the car he pulls out his Johnson and ask me to suck it... I might very well slap him out of reflex. 

I don't know if that's what he did. But I can think of things guys have done on dates that would get that reaction out of me... as a reflex, before I even though about it.

The op says that whatever he did, it did not offend her. I doubt that's true. My bet is that now she's trying to back track because she does not want to lose him.


----------



## EleGirl

Truthseeker1 said:


> You have a point. Some men do not look at it that way - what they see is that she gave the other guys a good time and they treated her like crap and he's a gentleman and he gets to hold her hand and be sexually frustrated for months. It is a matter of perspective. I don't know this young man (they seem young to this old fogie lol) but he needs to decide what he wants and go for it. If she doesn't make him happy then move on to someone who will give him what wants. Perhaps he needs some sexual advenntures like she did and learn his own hard lessons.


Or maybe he's had plenty of sexual adventures. It's definitely something she needs to ask him.

It's not unusual for a guy to bang everything in sight but then to expect a woman he's interested in to be sexually pure, or have very little experience.

I hope she asks him about his past experience.


----------



## Phenix70

EleGirl said:


> Well, if I'm dating a guy and it's only been a few weeks, and I've been clear that I do not agree to sex yet... then in the car he pulls out his Johnson and ask me to suck it... I might very well slap him out of reflex.
> 
> I don't know if that's what he did. But I can think of things guys have done on dates that would get that reaction out of me... as a reflex, before I even though about it.
> 
> The op says that whatever he did, it did not offend her. I doubt that's true. My bet is that now she's trying to back track because she does not want to lose him.


It's been over two months.
And unless he was forcing that johnson in her mouth, she had no right to slap him in response.
Violence, by either gender is not acceptable.
A more apt response would have been to say no & walk away without looking back if she was that offended by whatever it was he asked her to do.

I'm surprised that anyone is trying to defend her slapping him.
I can only imagine the responses if a man slapped a woman for NOT sucking his johnson.


----------



## Theseus

norajane said:


> Oh, is this another troll thread? One-post-wonder with lots of angry fighting amongst the rest.


And you totally added fuel to the "troll thread" by your snide suggestion that he asked for a hj or bj in the car and that he's a "mistake" for her. 

This whole thread is ridiculous. You have people here taking sides like it's some war between men and women. Both sides here are acting silly. 

Some observations for the group:

1. It's not a "troll thread" since the OP has responded a couple times. Not everyone lives on TAM and can update by the minute. 

2. He's not a rapist. Some people are suggesting he was "forcing" or "pressuring" her for sex. All he did was, in the words of the OP, kiss her and suggest she "do something". This is a couple that's been dating for several weeks. A sexual interest on his part is *f**king NORMAL* for crying out loud!!. This isn't her teacher, or her stepfather, or the local child molester. This is her date. Jeez, get a grip. And he stopped immediately when she said no, so some of the ladies here (Elegirl, 3xnocharm) could tone their outrage down a bit.

3. It doesn't matter if she's given up sex on the first date all her life and blown every guy in town. If she's not ready for sex now, she's not ready. And that doesn't make the guy in question a "doormat" or an idiot for staying with her. Their relationship is their relationship. An ex-wife might have vindictively withheld sex from some of you, but that doesn't mean the OP is that kind of person.

4. She shouldn't have slapped him, and she even admits that. A simple "no, sorry, I'm not ready now" would have been sufficient. Slapping someone "out of reflex" is not an excuse.

5. There is nothing wrong with asking about your partner's sexual history, especially if you are getting serious. Wouldn't some of you like to know if your partners had been unfaithful in the past or been molested, etc? These can create issues that you should at least be aware of. Him asking these questions could mean he's going to make further demands, but it also could mean he's simply wondering if he's doing something wrong, or if the OP is simply not attracted to him. 

6. People, there is no cartoon villain or hero here, so please stop looking for one. 

To JaneDoe, I recommend you tell him the truth about everything and that you don't have sex until you are ready. But keep in mind that many men will take that as a sign that they are being "friendzoned" which, to men, is absolute hell on Earth!


----------



## EleGirl

Nucking Futs said:


> He should have taken huge offense and dumped her when she slapped him for no reason, something you seem determined to minimize. Is it your opinion that women have a right to slap men and we should just take it?


The slap is a different thing. 

I think that, depending on what he did, he should walk based on the slap. There are women who are physically violent. 

He's not here asking what he should do about the slap. 

She is here asking what she should do about his line of questioning.


----------



## Truthseeker1

EleGirl said:


> Or maybe he's had plenty of sexual adventures. It's definitely something she needs to ask him.
> 
> *It's not unusual for a guy to bang everything in sight but then to expect a woman he's interested in to be sexually pure, or have very little experience.*
> 
> I hope she asks him about his past experience.


I absolutely agree...but you would be surprised at the amount of young men today who have not had many sexual adventures. I think in today's climate they would be better off exploring a lot - before they settle in. Not every guy bangs everything in sight. 

As far as asking him - she should - and he should be honest. Transparency works TWO ways. I have no respect for a Casanova who expects to marry a virgin. 

You and I basically agree.. I think...


----------



## Nucking Futs

EleGirl said:


> Well, if I'm dating a guy and it's only been a few weeks, and I've been clear that I do not agree to sex yet... then in the car he pulls out his Johnson and ask me to suck it... I might very well slap him out of reflex.
> 
> I don't know if that's what he did. But I can think of things guys have done on dates that would get that reaction out of me... as a reflex, before I even though about it.
> 
> The op says that whatever he did, it did not offend her. I doubt that's true. My bet is that now she's trying to back track because she does not want to lose him.


So you condone women committing violence against men. Do you condone men committing violence against women?


----------



## JaneDoe2013

So he actually came over and we had a short talk I guess. He just left and I feel exhausted cause it did not go well.

I know you are all saying he is not a gentleman because he's pressuring me to do something (sex) that I don't want to do etc. That really is not fair. It's not so much I don't want to do it, it's that I want him to see the other sides of me. And maybe it was a bit of game playing which I never should have done.

Anyway, I didn't get into specifics but I told him that some of the stuff in my past may not have been the right thing to do and that I care for him and that I want us to be a strong couple. He actually said that he wants us to be a couple as well which was a relief!! But he said he thinks that I don't find him sexually attractive and that if I did we would have "done it" long ago. He insisted on knowing about timing and stuff with other guys and I admitted that a very few were kind of quick. He pushed it so I said like maybe a week or so. He did not like that. He just swallowed and didn't say much.

Like some of you suggested I said I waited because he was special and I wanted to do it right. He just does not get that line of thought. He threw back at me that I had sex in a week with guys that didn't mean much, but I am making him wait over two months. I tried to kiss him but he pulled away and left.

To answer some of your questions, he's 27 and I'm 29.

To NuckingFuts, yeah, I know I've disrespected him. Other than the obvious which I am going to do, I need to show him that he really is special. And it makes me feel ****ty because Truthseeker is right that I "gave the other guys a good time and my guy gets to hold my hand. ANyway, that's it. I know I screwewd up. I just have to find a way for him to get past this.

I am going to call him later. I really hope he picks up cause I know he feels hurt.


----------



## tom67

EleGirl said:


> Or maybe he's had plenty of sexual adventures. It's definitely something she needs to ask him.
> 
> It's not unusual for a guy to bang everything in sight but then to expect a woman he's interested in to be sexually pure, or have very little experience.
> 
> I hope she asks him about his past experience.


That's fair. If he is coming tonight I think it's over for him.


----------



## Forever Changed

Don't call him.

Leave him be.


----------



## Truthseeker1

JaneDoe2013 said:


> So he actually came over and we had a short talk I guess. He just left and I feel exhausted cause it did not go well.
> 
> I know you are all saying he is not a gentleman because he's pressuring me to do something (sex) that I don't want to do etc. That really is not fair. It's not so much I don't want to do it, it's that I want him to see the other sides of me. And maybe it was a bit of game playing which I never should have done.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't get into specifics but I told him that some of the stuff in my past may not have been the right thing to do and that I care for him and that I want us to be a strong couple. He actually said that he wants us to be a couple as well which was a relief!! But he said he thinks that I don't find him sexually attractive and that if I did we would have "done it" long ago. He insisted on knowing about timing and stuff with other guys and I admitted that a very few were kind of quick. He pushed it so I said like maybe a week or so. He did not like that. He just swallowed and didn't say much.
> 
> Like some of you suggested I said I waited because he was special and I wanted to do it right. He just does not get that line of thought. He threw back at me that I had sex in a week with guys that didn't mean much, but I am making him wait over two months. I tried to kiss him but he pulled away and left.
> 
> To answer some of your questions, he's 27 and I'm 29.
> 
> To NuckingFuts, yeah, I know I've disrespected him. Other than the obvious which I am going to do, I need to show him that he really is special. And it makes me feel ****ty because *Truthseeker is right that I "gave the other guys a good time and my guy gets to hold my hand. *ANyway, that's it. I know I screwewd up. I just have to find a way for him to get past this.
> 
> I am going to call him later. I really hope he picks up cause I know he feels hurt.


To clarify I said that is how some guys view it. 

So what are you_ both _going to do to get past this as a couple? He sounds angry and confused? To follow up on a point by Elegirl - has he had his own set of sexual adventures int he past or is he relatively inexperienced?


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

EleGirl said:


> Well, if I'm dating a guy and it's only been a few weeks, and I've been clear that I do not agree to sex yet... then in the car he pulls out his Johnson and ask me to suck it... *I might very well slap him out of reflex*.
> 
> I don't know if that's what he did. But *I can think of things guys have done on dates that would get that reaction out of me*... as a reflex, before I even though about it.
> 
> The op says that whatever he did, it did not offend her. I doubt that's true. My bet is that now she's trying to back track because she does not want to lose him.


I'm surprised, EleGirl! You and I are about the same age...we've been THROUGH THE WAR! (I've dated more than my share of asshats!) But, short of laying his hands on me, I can't think of ANYTHING that would make me slap a man's face! Not even whipping his Johnson out and being crude!

Crude comments deserve sharp retorts.
Crass behavior demands exiting immediately with dignity.
No slapping; I just can't condone it except in self-defense!


----------



## Entropy3000

EleGirl said:


> She's working at not being easy. But it seems that men do not accept that a woman can change and learn what this article is saying.
> 
> Most of the men on this thread are saying that whatever the least amount of time she waiting for sex with any guy in the past, she must give it up on that timeframe forever to every guy she dates... or he should take huge offense and dump her.


I posted the article to take at face value. Because it relates to the topic. The article points out the exact issue she is trying to deal with. Hence why I posted it.

She is trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Or maybe the little man back in the boat. I understand. People have to evolve and mature. She may have to establish a new dating pattern for a while. Things take time. This has nothing to do with being fair. 

I lost out myself because of my past. Live and learn. But I was honest.

If she is settlling for the stable and nice guy and is just not into him sexually she needs to find another guy. If she is hot for him but wants to change her lifestyle then fine. But she should not pretend to be someone she is not. I understand the sides here.

I would not want to be this guy either. If she was sleeping with others on the first date and this guy is two months into a relationship, he may be getting screwed in the wrong way. Just my opinion.

She does not owe him sex. But again, how special he turns out to be we shall see.

So say be honest. Tell him the truth. He will figure this out eventually. I think sexual history is not something to hide once a relationship reaches a certain point. Has it reached that point? Idunno. If a woman does not want to tell that is her right. But I would feel free to let her go for that as well.

In real life this would not be me anyway. And indeed EleGirl you and I are looking way back at this. But if I can put myself at that age, I would know if she was into me or not. If I was really into her I think there would be a sexual relationship by now. A big difference between having sex on the first date and being months in.


----------



## EleGirl

JaneDoe2013 said:


> So he actually came over and we had a short talk I guess. He just left and I feel exhausted cause it did not go well.
> 
> I know you are all saying he is not a gentleman because he's pressuring me to do something (sex) that I don't want to do etc. That really is not fair. It's not so much I don't want to do it, it's that I want him to see the other sides of me. And maybe it was a bit of game playing which I never should have done.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't get into specifics but I told him that some of the stuff in my past may not have been the right thing to do and that I care for him and that I want us to be a strong couple. He actually said that he wants us to be a couple as well which was a relief!! But he said he thinks that I don't find him sexually attractive and that if I did we would have "done it" long ago. He insisted on knowing about timing and stuff with other guys and I admitted that a very few were kind of quick. He pushed it so I said like maybe a week or so. He did not like that. He just swallowed and didn't say much.
> 
> Like some of you suggested I said I waited because he was special and I wanted to do it right. He just does not get that line of thought. He threw back at me that I had sex in a week with guys that didn't mean much, but I am making him wait over two months. I tried to kiss him but he pulled away and left.
> 
> To answer some of your questions, he's 27 and I'm 29.
> 
> To NuckingFuts, yeah, I know I've disrespected him. Other than the obvious which I am going to do, I need to show him that he really is special. And it makes me feel ****ty because Truthseeker is right that I "gave the other guys a good time and my guy gets to hold my hand. ANyway, that's it. I know I screwewd up. I just have to find a way for him to get past this.
> 
> I am going to call him later. I really hope he picks up cause I know he feels hurt.


He's most likely done.

If he does come back and you have sex with him, it's not because he wants a relationship with you. It's because he's put in the fun until he finds the real thing bucket.

You, like many young women today who have bought in to the idea that promiscuity is cool idea have a real problem. But you were lied to and you believed the lie. You just found that out.

You see the posts from most of the men here. There are many threads here with this exact same kind of stuff. 

I don't know how you get through this except to find a man who is not so insecure that he cannot except that a woman can learn, change and grow. Maybe that's that key.


----------



## tom67

JaneDoe2013 said:


> So he actually came over and we had a short talk I guess. He just left and I feel exhausted cause it did not go well.
> 
> I know you are all saying he is not a gentleman because he's pressuring me to do something (sex) that I don't want to do etc. That really is not fair. It's not so much I don't want to do it, it's that I want him to see the other sides of me. And maybe it was a bit of game playing which I never should have done.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't get into specifics but I told him that some of the stuff in my past may not have been the right thing to do and that I care for him and that I want us to be a strong couple. He actually said that he wants us to be a couple as well which was a relief!! But he said he thinks that I don't find him sexually attractive and that if I did we would have "done it" long ago. He insisted on knowing about timing and stuff with other guys and I admitted that a very few were kind of quick. He pushed it so I said like maybe a week or so. He did not like that. He just swallowed and didn't say much.
> 
> Like some of you suggested I said I waited because he was special and I wanted to do it right. He just does not get that line of thought. He threw back at me that I had sex in a week with guys that didn't mean much, but I am making him wait over two months. I tried to kiss him but he pulled away and left.
> 
> To answer some of your questions, he's 27 and I'm 29.
> 
> To NuckingFuts, yeah, I know I've disrespected him. Other than the obvious which I am going to do, I need to show him that he really is special. And it makes me feel ****ty because Truthseeker is right that I "gave the other guys a good time and my guy gets to hold my hand. ANyway, that's it. I know I screwewd up. I just have to find a way for him to get past this.
> 
> I am going to call him later. I really hope he picks up cause I know he feels hurt.


I have to ask this and we don't know you from a hole in the wall so to speak, were you raped and/or sexually abused, I mean no disrespect. If not time to rethink this relationship both of you take a few weeks off. Think about it that's all.


----------



## Truthseeker1

EleGirl said:


> He's most likely done.
> 
> If he does come back and you have sex with him, it's not because he wants a relationship with you. It's because he's put in the fun until he finds the real thing bucket.
> 
> You, like many young women today who have bought in to the idea that promiscuity is cool idea have a real problem. But you were lied to and you believed the lie. You just found that out.
> 
> You see the posts from most of the men here. There are many threads here with this exact same kind of stuff.
> 
> *I don't know how you get through this except to find a man who is not so insecure that he cannot except that a woman can learn, change and grow. Maybe that's that key*.


I don't think it is insecurity as much as feeling "ripped off". I hope that makes sense. But Elegirl you make excellent points.
I also firmly believe that when you meet the right person - a lot of this melts away.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Nucking Futs said:


> So you condone women committing violence against men. Do you condone men committing violence against women?


You've avoided this question 3 times now. I think that's an answer itself.


----------



## EleGirl

Truthseeker1 said:


> I don't think it is insecurity as much as feeling "ripped off". I hope that makes sense. But Elegirl you make excellent points.
> 
> *I also firmly believe that when you meet the right person - a lot of this melts away*.


I agree with this. When it really clicks, none of this matters because you know that what matters is what you both have together now.

And waiting for sex until you are both ready does not matter either.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Here's what he know (or at least thinks he knows): as long as he's with you he'll get the bare minimum. Everything he does get will be a huge effort.


----------



## JaneDoe2013

I really want to clarify some stuff.

First, the slap. He did not attack me or pressure me or really do anything that deserved a slap. Yeah, you guys did guess it correctly. He sort of sideways brought up a bj. Not a big deal. I know that. I just stupidly handled it wrong. I've apologized and I'm going to apologize again. I don't slap people and I don't have anger issues - lol!! Just a dumb move and it wasn't like it left a mark. 

Second, talking about our pasts. I've made a point of steering away from this topic because mine is probabbly colorful to him. As far as him, I haven't asked but he's talked about a couple of serious girlgriends he's had. I have a strong feeling that his past is not wild or varied. I'm actually pretty sure of that and I actually like that.

Also, we've been on way more than 10 dates like somebody said. I haven't kept count but maybe 25 or so

I think I've answered pretty much everybody


----------



## Truthseeker1

Nucking Futs said:


> You've avoided this question 3 times now. I think that's an answer itself.


Elegirl already took that on - she wrote "I think that, depending on what he did, he should walk based on the slap. There are women who are physically violent. " So no I don't think she condones women hitting men.


----------



## tom67

Entropy3000 said:


> I posted the article to take at face value. Because it relates to the topic. The article points out the exact issue she is trying to deal with. Hence why I posted it.
> 
> She is trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Or maybe the little man back in the boat. I understand. People have to evolve and mature. She may have to establish a new dating pattern for a while. Things take time. This has nothing to do with being fair.
> 
> I lost out myself because of my past. Live and learn. But I was honest.
> 
> If she is settlling for the stable and nice guy and is just not into him sexually she needs to find another guy. If she is hot for him but wants to change her lifestyle then fine. But she should not pretend to be someone she is not. I understand the sides here.
> 
> I would not want to be this guy either. If she was sleeping with others on the first date and this guy is two months into a relationship, he may be getting screwed in the wrong way. Just my opinion.
> 
> She does not owe him sex. But again, how special he turns out to be we shall see.
> 
> So say be honest. Tell him the truth. He will figure this out eventually. I think sexual history is not something to hide once a relationship reaches a certain point. Has it reached that point? Idunno. If a woman does not want to tell that is her right. But I would feel free to let her go for that as well.
> 
> In real life this would not be me anyway. And indeed EleGirl you and I are looking way back at this. But if I can put myself at that age, I would know if she was into me or not. If I was really into her I think there would be a sexual relationship by now. A big difference between having sex on the first date and being months in.


:iagree: Is this like 50 shades of dating because there is a lot of grey in this thread.


----------



## EleGirl

Nucking Futs said:


> You've avoided this question 3 times now. I think that's an answer itself.


I clearly stated that if he were here asking for advice, I'd advise him to leave her because of the slap. I've said that it was wrong more than once.


But she is here asking about something totally different.... she's asking about his line of questioning. I'm responding to her questions, not your repeated hounding.


----------



## Truthseeker1

JaneDoe2013 said:


> I really want to clarify some stuff.
> 
> First, the slap. He did not attack me or pressure me or really do anything that deserved a slap. Yeah, you guys did guess it correctly. He sort of sideways brought up a bj. Not a big deal. I know that. I just stupidly handled it wrong. I've apologized and I'm going to apologize again. I don't slap people and I don't have anger issues - lol!! Just a dumb move and it wasn't like it left a mark.
> 
> *Second, talking about our pasts. I've made a point of steering away from this topic because mine is probabbly colorful to him. As far as him, I haven't asked but he's talked about a couple of serious girlgriends he's had. I have a strong feeling that his past is not wild or varied. I'm actually pretty sure of that and I actually like that.*
> 
> Also, we've been on way more than 10 dates like somebody said. I haven't kept count but maybe 25 or so
> 
> I think I've answered pretty much everybody


That was my guess. To less promiscuous men sexual past often matters. He may need to go out and have some of his own varied adventures. You said you like that - why is that?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Truthseeker1 said:


> Elegirl already took that on - she wrote "I think that, *depending on what he did*, he should walk based on the slap. There are women who are physically violent. " So no I don't think she condones women hitting men.


Re-read it. She does condone it.

If it was a man that slapped a woman she wouldn't be suggesting she walk, she'd be suggesting she call the police.


----------



## tom67

Truthseeker1 said:


> That was my guess. To less promiscuous men sexual past often matters. He may need to go out and have some of his own varied adventures. You said you like that - why is that?


And her limbic brain is dismissing him and there you go.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Nucking Futs said:


> Re-read it. She does condone it.
> 
> If it was a man that slapped a woman she wouldn't be suggesting she walk, she'd be suggesting she call the police.


To be charitable to Elegirl - I think she meant as a form of self-defense - as in he was forcing himself on her.


----------



## Entropy3000

JaneDoe2013 said:


> So he actually came over and we had a short talk I guess. He just left and I feel exhausted cause it did not go well.
> 
> I know you are all saying he is not a gentleman because he's pressuring me to do something (sex) that I don't want to do etc. That really is not fair. It's not so much I don't want to do it, it's that I want him to see the other sides of me. And maybe it was a bit of game playing which I never should have done.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't get into specifics but I told him that some of the stuff in my past may not have been the right thing to do and that I care for him and that I want us to be a strong couple. He actually said that he wants us to be a couple as well which was a relief!! But he said he thinks that I don't find him sexually attractive and that if I did we would have "done it" long ago. He insisted on knowing about timing and stuff with other guys and I admitted that a very few were kind of quick. He pushed it so I said like maybe a week or so. He did not like that. He just swallowed and didn't say much.
> 
> Like some of you suggested I said I waited because he was special and I wanted to do it right. He just does not get that line of thought. He threw back at me that I had sex in a week with guys that didn't mean much, but I am making him wait over two months. I tried to kiss him but he pulled away and left.
> 
> To answer some of your questions, he's 27 and I'm 29.
> 
> To NuckingFuts, yeah, I know I've disrespected him. Other than the obvious which I am going to do, I need to show him that he really is special. And it makes me feel ****ty because Truthseeker is right that I "gave the other guys a good time and my guy gets to hold my hand. ANyway, that's it. I know I screwewd up. I just have to find a way for him to get past this.
> 
> I am going to call him later. I really hope he picks up cause I know he feels hurt.


I think he has a point. It does not sound like you are urgent for him. You are not children.

I find it hard to believe that this guy only gets to hold your hand. yet in the past you had sex with other guys in a week. You have a relationship with this guy and you did not with these others and he holds your hand. I am going to be brutally honest with you. I would not want a woman with a lot of partners period. But if I thought we had a realtionship and we just held hands. Sorry. No way. You are not into me then. 

So no deep soft wet french kisses? I can see no PIV at this point. Well not sure if I can actually. But I would not hang around if I thought we had binded and we were not having some sexual activity. I guess I am a creep. But I doubt it. IF I knew you were a virgin, I could understand. Hmmm. Maybe a little. But having sex with this guy is not a ONS. 

So how about you kiss him a little. Do you not think it is extreme to go into mother Theresa mode after you have been so availble to other guys. Please please do not go back to that. But you are now in a relationship. Can he cop a feel yet. LOL. You are 29. If you had some religious reasons I might understand ... a little but I probably would be gone.

Now again you should not do anything you do not want to. I am questioning why you do not want to rip this guys clothes off yet. That is a red flag to me.

You guys are exclusive. Right? That shoild make a difference. I think maybe you were hot for those guys and this new guy is not about sex. I think hot sex is critical.


----------



## Truthseeker1

tom67 said:


> And her limbic brain is dismissing him and there you go.


I think he is a safe choice to JaneDoe in some ways. Jane am I right? I also think deep down he needs to figure out if he wants his own sexual adventures and just go have his fun. He might need that before he settles down. Like I said he is feeling "ripped off" - like he is being denied a good time. That shows me he needs to have some more fun with his sex life before he settles down.


----------



## Gaia

Geeze everyone with this nitpicking crap. OP have you thought about counseling? You sound like you have a bit of self esteem issues and the slap sounds like he may have triggered something in you with that question. Perhaps considering going to IC?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Lol I'm more of an ass about it but I think alot like entropy.


----------



## Entropy3000

Truthseeker1 said:


> That was my guess. To less promiscuous men sexual past often matters. He may need to go out and have some of his own varied adventures. You said you like that - why is that?


I think sexual past matters to all sorts of men.

That said, I think I would spin this to people who think of sex as just sex. Those folks really are not as into sex because they do not value it as much.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Entropy3000 said:


> I think sexual past matters to all sorts of men.


True to a certain extent. But if a guy is less experienced they often want a woman with a similar past.


----------



## Gaia

Entropy3000 said:


> I think sexual past matters to all sorts of men.


Women too.


----------



## Entropy3000

WorkingOnMe said:


> Lol I'm more of an ass about it but I think alot like entropy.


I'm laughing at myself. So this thread had value for me.

You know how I am. I do not want a woman who has been passed around. But at some point she better be really into me or we have no chemistry.

I am not a nice guy though. I am pretty sure my wife felt she was marrying a bit of a bad boy and she was going to change him. I still hear from my wife about the women in bed sheets she saw me with way back when.

But hot sex is crtiical. I want a woman who has been conservative but cannot control herself with ..... ME!!

I want to be the bad boy she had to have.

I do not want to be the nice guy that gets to wait when all the other men did not. LOL.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Gaia said:


> Women too.


:iagree::iagree: I knew a VERY promiscuous woman - as in triple digits - who berated a boyfriend for having gone to hookers in his past. :slap:


----------



## Entropy3000

Gaia said:


> Women too.


Yup. My wife knew. Others knew. It cost me. But it was the right thing to do.

No one should be ashamed. As the article I posted states, this is not about men. Let men know the truth. If someone is hiding something it is because they are ashamed. Be truthful.

Indeed why are women not choosier? I cannot speak for them. Some are too busy trying to be men. Their idea of men anyway.


----------



## EleGirl

Entropy3000 said:


> Yup. My wife knew. Others knew. It cost me. But it was the right thing to do.
> 
> No one should be ashamed. As the article I posted states, this is not about men. Let men know the truth. If someone is hiding something it is because they are ashamed. Be truthful.
> 
> *Indeed why are women not choosier?* I cannot speak for them. Some are too busy trying to be men. Their idea of men anyway.


Who says that women are not choosier?

Not all women have slept with dozens of men on the first date. And not all women would settle down with a horn dog kinda guy.

This thread is in response to one women, not all women.


----------



## Forever Changed

This thread makes me very, very sad for our young men in today's world. I shudder to think what it will be like in 20 years time.

Good Luck OP.


----------



## TiggyBlue

EleGirl said:


> Who says that women are not choosier?
> 
> Not all women have slept with dozens of men on the first date. *And not all women would settle down with a horn dog kinda guy*.
> 
> This thread is in response to one women, not all women.


I have had talked to women who didn't want to settle for a guy who has slept around but felt 'that's just the way it is', it's sad really they didn't think there was a better choice from themselves.


----------



## tom67

EleGirl said:


> Who says that women are not choosier?
> 
> Not all women have slept with dozens of men on the first date. And not all women would settle down with a horn dog kinda guy.
> 
> This thread is in response to one women, not all women.


Correct!


----------



## JaneDoe2013

You know, reading all this has been a sad eye opener forme. I think Entropy3000 got it exactly right when he said "I want a woman who has been conservative but cannot control herself with ...ME."

I feel really bad for my guy. I can't change my past but I cancahnge things starting now. I don't want my guy going out there to get adventures. I'm not going to wait until Friday. I'm going to get him here tomorrow and I will rock his world. Something I should have done sooner. I do not want him to feel like he's been "ripped off" as somebody said.


----------



## Truthseeker1

TiggyBlue said:


> I have had talked to women who didn't want to settle for a guy who has slept around but felt 'that's just the way it is', it's sad really they didn't think there was a better choice from them.


That is a shame because not all men are promiscuous...


----------



## Forever Changed

Is that really a good idea Jane?

Please.

Leave him alone.


----------



## tom67

JaneDoe2013 said:


> You know, reading all this has been a sad eye opener forme. I think Entropy3000 got it exactly right when he said "I want a woman who has been conservative but cannot control herself with ...ME."
> 
> I feel really bad for my guy. I can't change my past but I cancahnge things starting now. I don't want my guy going out there to get adventures. I'm not going to wait until Friday. I'm going to get him here tomorrow and I will rock his world. Something I should have done sooner. I do not want him to feel like he's been "ripped off" as somebody said.


If you truly find him this special, have at it. Entropy is good people-I wish you both the best.


----------



## Gaia

Forever Changed said:


> Is that really a good idea Jane?
> 
> Please.
> 
> Leave him alone.


Everyone has issues and everyone can make efforts to correct them. Some peoples posts here really make me sad for my son and daughters. 

I don't agree with some of your points or your perception but if she wants to make a change then she should go right ahead and do it. He didn't leave even though she has some issues so clearly this man she is with has damn good character... unlike some people. 

OP i say if you wanna rock his world... go for it.


----------



## that_girl

It's an honest question from him.

I don't know why you hit him.


----------



## Truthseeker1

JaneDoe2013 said:


> You know, reading all this has been a sad eye opener forme. I think Entropy3000 got it exactly right when he said "I want a woman who has been conservative but cannot control herself with ...ME."
> 
> I feel really bad for my guy. I can't change my past but I cancahnge things starting now. I don't want my guy going out there to get adventures. I'm not going to wait until Friday. I'm going to get him here tomorrow and I will rock his world. Something I should have done sooner. I do not want him to feel like he's been "ripped off" as somebody said.


No..absolutely incorrect...you should wait until you feel comfortable. You don't owe him sex Jane. I wrote that some men look at it as being "ripped off". I think you both need to COMMUNICATE before you FORNICATE. See why he feels ripped off - because I will tell you this - even if you sleep with him - your past still may bother him. So please talk it out before you do anything. Be reight mentally before you get physical.


----------



## Forever Changed

If he is feeling 'ripped off'', and you suddenly decide to 'rock his world'. How is that going to make him feel?

Like a loser. 

That's how.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Jane,

Do what YOU believe is right (even if that is rocking his world tomorrow night), but do not believe that THIS will be a panacea! You two need to DISCUSS expectations and what you're looking for in a mate.

He may be willing to have sex with you tomorrow night, but unwilling to have a relationship with you (because he had to go to all these lengths to get sex, because he has a shorter/plainer history than you, because he feels that despite tomorrow night, you're just not that INTO him, because he can't live up to his imaginings about your past, etc. who knows!) Just DON"T BELIEVE that having sex with him tomorrow night will right this ship!

If you haven't had a VERY SERIOUS in-depth talk by day after tomorrow about what EACH OF YOU expects/needs/wants, then don't expect this to last more than a couple of booty-calls. Too much water under the bridge. You better build a dam damned quick, or forget it.

JMHO


----------



## that_girl

Hm....Make sure you're going to have sex with him because you want to. Not because you feel you need to so he doesn't go anywhere.

I mean, have boundaries and stuff...just stop slappin' people.


----------



## tom67

He may quite possibly view it as duty sex but again if he is special give it a shot but don't let it look too scripted.


----------



## Entropy3000

EleGirl said:


> Who says that women are not choosier?
> 
> Not all women have slept with dozens of men on the first date. And not all women would settle down with a horn dog kinda guy.
> 
> This thread is in response to one women, not all women.


I said I think women ought to be choosier. This is response to those that say that so many men sleep around as an excuse as to why women may sleep around.

I say then it is on the woman to be choosier if they do not like that some men sleep around too much.


----------



## Forever Changed

Agreed Tom. I was having trouble trying to articulate just that.


----------



## tom67

Forever Changed said:


> If he is feeling 'ripped off'', and you suddenly decide to 'rock his world'. How is that going to make him feel?
> 
> Like a loser.
> 
> That's how.


Sigh that's possible.


----------



## Entropy3000

TiggyBlue said:


> I have had talked to women who didn't want to settle for a guy who has slept around but felt 'that's just the way it is', it's sad really they didn't think there was a better choice from themselves.


This is what I am saying. I do not think a woman has to accept this just as a man does not either.

I am NOT saying all women sleep around. But I do think we have seen a tend to where some women feel they need to compete with men in this manner to prove they are equal. First off not all guys sleep around either.


----------



## that_girl

Just let it flow. Dang. Let this sit and keep talking and hanging out.

It's no joke that once you start having sex, most communication and learning about each other stops. You fill the time with sex and not words.

My advice, dont' sleep with him. It's not a crime. If he can't hang, even if he likes you, and he leaves, do you WANT THAT GUY? Please. have a conviction and stick to it. If he is interested, he'll respect that and wait. If not, he won't. Either way, you win. You have sex when you're comfortable OR you aren't with someone who just wants sex.


----------



## EleGirl

JaneDoe2013 said:


> You know, reading all this has been a sad eye opener forme. I think Entropy3000 got it exactly right when he said "I want a woman who has been conservative but cannot control herself with ...ME."
> 
> I feel really bad for my guy. I can't change my past but I cancahnge things starting now. I don't want my guy going out there to get adventures. I'm not going to wait until Friday. I'm going to get him here tomorrow and I will rock his world. Something I should have done sooner. I do not want him to feel like he's been "ripped off" as somebody said.


How did you meet this guy?

Did any of his friends know you before you started to date him?


----------



## Gaia

And don't forget to consider therapy op.


----------



## tom67

Gaia said:


> And don't forget to consider therapy op.


Yes both:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

JaneDoe2013 said:


> You know, reading all this has been a sad eye opener forme. I think Entropy3000 got it exactly right when he said "I want a woman who has been conservative but cannot control herself with ...ME."
> 
> I feel really bad for my guy. I can't change my past but I cancahnge things starting now. I don't want my guy going out there to get adventures. I'm not going to wait until Friday. I'm going to get him here tomorrow and I will rock his world. Something I should have done sooner. I do not want him to feel like he's been "ripped off" as somebody said.


He owes me big time! LOL.

Seriously. That sounds awesome. But do it because you want to. If you were holding off because you were afraid to show your sexuality ... you waited long enough IMO. He gets it. Sex is NOT bad. Sex s wonderful. If he is your guy and you want a relationship with him then I do encourage when you are ready to take it to the next level. 

But above all do it because you want to share this with him. A guy wants his woman to want him. He sounds ready. Adults in a relationship ... have sex or at least sexual activity. Do not withhold sex because of some fear of looking too sexual. If you want him then rock his world. He is your guy.


----------



## that_girl

HUh? He sounds ready? Lollll

I'm sure he is.


----------



## tom67

Entropy3000 said:


> He owes me big time! LOL.
> 
> Seriously. That sounds awesome. But do it because you want to. If you were holding off because you were afraid to show your sexuality ... you waited long enough IMO. He gets it. Sex is NOT bad. Sex s wonderful. If he is your guy and you want a relationship with him then I do encourage when you are ready to take it to the next level.
> 
> But above all do it because you want to share this with him. But yeah a guy wants his woman to want him. He sounds real ready now.


:iagree:


----------



## john_lord_b3

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> You've gone out with him a little over 2 months, so that's like 10 dates maybe? You said he's inquired about sex with you, but he hasn't been pushy, just interested.
> 
> After 9-10 weeks, he asks to come up to your place and you refuse (which is certainly your right). He makes a suggestion which in your opinion was NOT offensive per se, and you slapped him!?!
> 
> 
> He's seen you for going-on three months.
> He has waited patiently and agreed thus far to the no-sex line.
> When he makes a suggestion regarding a sexual dalliance (after more than two months), you attacked him for it (physically and verbally).
> He now wants to know what your past sexual history is.
> Now you're going to have sex with him this Friday.
> WHY?
> Because you want to?
> Because you're afraid he'll dump you if you don't? (especially after you slapped him for suggesting it?)
> 
> It doesn't seem to me that you're intending to have sex with him for the correct reasons. It seems to me that you're interested in him as a possible long-term relationship, but you're willing to "give in" to sex with him sooner than you want to in order to maintain the relationship.
> 
> Short of a frank and fair discussion, I don't see this relationship going well even if you give it up on Friday night.
> 
> Why he would stay with you after you slapped him is beyond me; I'm not picking on you, I just find that a REALLY EGREGIOUS mistake. You admitted you were not all that offended by his suggestion (or are you revising things now that you're afraid you might lose him?), so why the face-slapping? I'm offended FOR this man and I'm a woman!
> 
> I'm thinking you should give up dating ANYONE for the next 4-6 months and concentrate on making yourself a healthier person. I would (humbly) suggest that you might try "Codependent No More" as a good place to start reading.


:smnotworthy::smnotworthy::smnotworthy::allhail:

Mrs. SGW, You should become any young men's and women's "big sister", your advice are spot on as always! You'll make a great school counsellor!


----------



## EleGirl

Entropy3000 said:


> This is what I am saying.  I do not think a woman has to accept this just as a man does not either.
> 
> I am NOT saying all women sleep around. But I do think we have seen a tend to where some women feel they need to compete with men in this manner to prove they are equal. First off not all guys sleep around either.


I don't think that the women feel that they have to compete with men sexually to prove they are equal. (at least not even most of the promiscuous women.)

I think that there are needy women and horny women. And they have been taught that it's ok to jump in the sack with every guy they feel attracted to.

A lot of women, especially young women, do not realize that men see categorize women into the ones that are for fun and the ones who they will take seriously.

A lot of people think that promiscuity is not only acceptable but required to date. That’s what our popular culture is showing. Well if a person does not date they will not find a mate. 

There are guys here who have the rule that if a woman does not sleep with him on the 3rd date. But those same guys will say that they will not marry (or take seriously) a promiscuous woman. Um... if a woman sleeps with ya on the 3rd date she is most likely promiscuous by definition.

Some very mixed messages.


----------



## john_lord_b3

Theseus said:


> And you totally added fuel to the "troll thread" by your snide suggestion that he asked for a hj or bj in the car and that he's a "mistake" for her.
> 
> This whole thread is ridiculous. You have people here taking sides like it's some war between men and women. Both sides here are acting silly.
> 
> Some observations for the group:
> 
> 1. It's not a "troll thread" since the OP has responded a couple times. Not everyone lives on TAM and can update by the minute.
> 
> 2. He's not a rapist. Some people are suggesting he was "forcing" or "pressuring" her for sex. All he did was, in the words of the OP, kiss her and suggest she "do something". This is a couple that's been dating for several weeks. A sexual interest on his part is *f**king NORMAL* for crying out loud!!. This isn't her teacher, or her stepfather, or the local child molester. This is her date. Jeez, get a grip. And he stopped immediately when she said no, so some of the ladies here (Elegirl, 3xnocharm) could tone their outrage down a bit.
> 
> 3. It doesn't matter if she's given up sex on the first date all her life and blown every guy in town. If she's not ready for sex now, she's not ready. And that doesn't make the guy in question a "doormat" or an idiot for staying with her. Their relationship is their relationship. An ex-wife might have vindictively withheld sex from some of you, but that doesn't mean the OP is that kind of person.
> 
> 4. She shouldn't have slapped him, and she even admits that. A simple "no, sorry, I'm not ready now" would have been sufficient. Slapping someone "out of reflex" is not an excuse.
> 
> 5. There is nothing wrong with asking about your partner's sexual history, especially if you are getting serious. Wouldn't some of you like to know if your partners had been unfaithful in the past or been molested, etc? These can create issues that you should at least be aware of. Him asking these questions could mean he's going to make further demands, but it also could mean he's simply wondering if he's doing something wrong, or if the OP is simply not attracted to him.
> 
> 6. People, there is no cartoon villain or hero here, so please stop looking for one.
> 
> To JaneDoe, I recommend you tell him the truth about everything and that you don't have sex until you are ready. But keep in mind that many men will take that as a sign that they are being "friendzoned" which, to men, is absolute hell on Earth!


:iagree::smthumbup: excellent observation!


----------



## Wiltshireman

Only just caught up with this thread and would like to add a few points.

No one should ever feel pressured into having sex of any form agianst their will.

Hitting (slapping) accept in self defense is wrong (unless its role play perhaps).

Just because a person has had sex early on in a previous relationship does not mean they must do so in all relationships.

Both sides in a relationship deserve honesty from each other.

I do not think we will find many who would disagree with any of the above so can we look at the OP’s relationship objectively.

The OP tells us that she has had sex early on in previous unsuccessful relationships with partners she now considers to be unsuitable but now that she has found a man she feels is more suitable she wants to wait before having sex. 
She is worried that once she tells this man her history he will be less understanding of her wish to wait.

I think that this will depend on how she explains her decision to him. 

The only explanation that would have made sense to me if I had been in his shoes would have been one that linked the failure of the previous relationships to having had sex too soon, and that not wanting to risk the same thing happening again is the reason for the caution.

I know that some people consider it necessary for a couple to share sex before they make a long term commitment to each other but for me the opposite worked better.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> Women Have Become Too Easy - AskMen
> 
> Read this. You can disagree but many guys are starting to feel this way.


:iagree:
Why am I not surprised ?

Lol,
Looks like we both subscribe to the same men's website also!
I read that article some months ago and almost started a thread on it. But I didn't .
That's a really good website , funny and controversial at times , but good!


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I'm thinking you should give up dating ANYONE for the next 4-6 months and concentrate on making yourself a healthier person. I would (humbly) suggest that you might try "Codependent No More" as a good place to start reading.


Ok.
Having read the entire thread, this is the most solid advice in my opinion.

OP ,
You spoke with this guy about your past and he seemed disappointed in his response , to which you felt guilty or sorry for him.

I think he has some entitlement and insecurity issues. 
You seem to have some insecurity issue too. In a healthy relationship , both partners help each other deal with these type of issues positively.
I am not seeing that here. You all are talking but the issues have not been resolved.
After having sex with him, the next thing he would do is start asking you about the exact details of your past sexual experiences and comparing himself .
Look out for him asking you to perform the exact sexual acts with him ,even if you're uncomfortable with it. He will the same yardstick he's using now to manipulate you into doing these acts.

I believe that when a man is in a serious relationship with a woman,there are a few things he must never do.

1) Never ask or beg for sex.
2)Never compare himself with past lovers. Know that you're giving her the best sex she's ever had.
3)Never ask for sexual acts / favors , there are better ways to communicate these ideas.

Based on all that you have posted, OP , I think you may have to lower your relationship expectations from this guy, especially after Friday night.
Both of you are not compatible and having sex is not going to fix that.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

JaneDoe2013 said:


> You know, reading all this has been a sad eye opener forme. I think Entropy3000 got it exactly right when he said "I want a woman who has been conservative but cannot control herself with ...ME."
> 
> I feel really bad for my guy. I can't change my past but I cancahnge things starting now. I don't want my guy going out there to get adventures. I'm not going to wait until Friday. I'm going to get him here tomorrow and I will rock his world. Something I should have done sooner. I do not want him to feel like he's been "ripped off" as somebody said.


You cannot give him sex as compensation. It will feel cheap for him, and afterwards for yourself.

You made a serious error, it can't be repaired with being intimate 'on demand'.

You slapped him in my opinion because:

- You had decided to be 'a good girl' in variation of your usual self (real self?)

- You had succesfully attracted a good guy

- You played successfully a game to see how long you could keep him on a leash

- You had succesfully gained domination on the sex level over him.

- AND THEN the sucker tried to destroy your game, your powerplay!

So in anger you react from you instincts and impulsively


----------



## soulpotato

OP, no matter how many great qualities this guy has, if you are not comfortable doing anything sexual with him at this point, don't. It is your body. Even if you married him, it would still be your body and only you have the right to yield it. He does not have the _right_ to demand access to it. Not on any day of the week, not in return for any number of dates, presents, sweet words, etc. You don't owe him sex.

I don't know why some guys feel so entitled, like they have bought a share of your body. If this guy walks away over having to wait or wants to feel entitled to what you've given other guys in the past (and in the same time frame), he's not worth another glance. You may like him now, but you don't know him very well after just a couple of months. Listen to your gut feeling. Don't second-guess, and don't feel pressured to give him sex just to keep him (which seems to be what's happening now). You'll regret it.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Jane,

I think you're trying to build a good healthy relationship without the proper knowledge and tools. It's no slam on you! NONE OF US was taught how to have healthy relationships....it's just not something that is talked about in family situations.

One of the BEST THINGS about TAM is the advice and the tools that people will point you to that you heretofore had no knowledge of.

If we asked you to build a house, it would probably be unsafe! Maybe you'd start by stacking bricks (the OLD you, having sex too soon with guys you hadn't vetted). When that didn't work, maybe you'd start nailing lumber together (the NEW you that wants to know someone better before getting sexually/emotionally involved and then being hurt because the guy was unworthy or the wrong person for you).

If you REALLY wanted a house that was strong, safe, comfortable, everything you expected...then you'd LEARN about how to build one. You'd have someone show you/work with you, you'd read books, you'd study, etc. PLEASE DO THIS FOR YOUR RELATIONSHIPS and emotional health!

Whether you stay with this guy or not, please get "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beattie and read it SLOWLY and with comprehension so you can understand YOURSELF! 

Understand:

Why you chose inappropriate men so often
Why you felt sex would get you what you needed
What is missing in your past that you're trying to get now from men
How you can give yourself whatever it is that's 'missing' so you can be in healthy relationships...because you're healthier

There is no shame in not knowing, that is merely ignorance. There is shame in refusing to learn, that is stubbornness or stupidity. There is a BIG difference...never confuse them. I laud you for WANTING better healthier relationships and TRYING to achieve that goal! I'm sure I'm old enough to be your mother, please don't wait as long as I did to find that book and help REMAKE your life and relationships the way you want.

*HUGS*


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't think it matters how many bad boys she had sex with before.
> The fact is , this is HER body and she can do as she damn well pleases with it.
> 
> She has decided that the past ones were mistakes, so , should she continue making the same mistake?
> 
> Based on how this present boyfriend is acting, my haunch is that he to will turn out to be a mistake.
> 
> It is up to Mr. Love of her life here to decide if she is worth waiting for, just like it is up to her to have sex with him when she's ready.
> 
> I don't think that she should feel " pressured" to have sex with him because of her past.
> That's just stupid.


I absolutely agree with this!


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Instead of slapping your bf, just tell him those questions are inappropriate. There is no reason to ever use physical force in a relationship ever. If you ever feel like hurting him again, leave the relationship. This isn't the man for you.


----------



## Cosmos

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't think it matters how many bad boys she had sex with before.
> The fact is , this is HER body and she can do as she damn well pleases with it.
> 
> She has decided that the past ones were mistakes, so , should she continue making the same mistake?
> 
> Based on how this present boyfriend is acting, my haunch is that he to will turn out to be a mistake.
> 
> It is up to Mr. Love of her life here to decide if she is worth waiting for, just like it is up to her to have sex with him when she's ready.
> 
> I don't think that she should feel " pressured" to have sex with him because of her past.
> That's just stupid.


:iagree:

Well said, CM.

This ludicrous notion that once a woman makes a mistake she must continue making that mistake is beyond me. A mistake is simply an opportunity to learn and grow, and the only way we're going to achieve that is by doing things differently.

I was only ever dumped by one man who wasn't prepared to slow things down with me, and he did me a big favour as it taught me to raise the bar even higher... 

IME, a man worth having will never try to pressurize a woman into having sex with him.

PS. Face slapping is never the way to get one's point across, OP...


----------



## ntamph

I would never look down on a woman who moved to sex quickly in the past.

I would never look down on a woman who wants to wait until marriage.

The problem here is why the man of her dreams is getting slapped for making his interest in her known.

"I met someone who treats me better than anyone has ever treated me so I'm going to treat him worse than any other man I've been with."

How does that make sense?


----------



## Wiltshireman

ntamph said:


> I would never look down on a woman who moved to sex quickly in the past.
> 
> I would never look down on a woman who wants to wait until marriage.
> 
> The problem here is why the man of her dreams is getting slapped for making his interest in her known.
> 
> "I met someone who treats me better than anyone has ever treated me so I'm going to treat him worse than any other man I've been with."
> 
> How does that make sense?


It makes no sense at all. Why "slap" someone when a simple "easy cowboy" or similar comment would have cooled his ardour. 

Then agian we are all people who make mistakes and hopfully learn from them.

Thinking about it since when did the actions of a women make sense to any man.


----------



## LonelyinLove

My last date had to wait almost 2 years to get into my bed....our wedding day.

He was the only guy who ever did get that far...a fact he is still very happy about.

Don't do anything you don't want to...and any man that can't respect that, doesn't respect you.


----------



## ScubaSteve61

If you aren't ready, don't give it up. Seriously. And please don't give it up as a way of hanging a leash around his neck. You don't deserve it and he doesn't deserve it. 

Let things happen in their own time. When you feel ready for it, when the passion is there, let it happen in the moment. Don't try to shoehorn it in.


----------



## Unique Username

Wow, after reading the first few pages and the last few...I certainly hope you disregard the comments made by the ANGRY men (ie ntamph and forever changed)

I get exactly what you are doing. You took the time to think about what has worked in the past and what hasn't for YOU.

AS WE ALL SHOULD...post divorce or LTR that didn't work...what a great thing to do...analyze a bit how you did things or reacted and change accordingly for the betterment of yourself and future relationships. 

He asked something inappropriate and you quickly reacted with a slap to his face. This tells me that YOU didn't like how or what he asked you to do...I'm guessing it was a BJ or a HJ and yeah your reaction was actually spot on. It was, for whatever reason what YOU didn't want to do and you felt demeaned by his asking. He was actually being a spoiled brat, selfish and stupid.
You haven't had sex yet, you wouldn't let him come up to your apartment so he tried to get his rocks off a different way. What would you have gained from complying? You wanted the first time with him to be romantic, making love. I get it. And you were waiting to make sure he was the right guy for you.
Who cares what you did in the past, you've made a decision to do things differently for a reason and a good one. I get what others are saying about not slapping the dude, so choose a different reaction next time. Can't change what you have already done. 

I would sit back and read all the responses....both the stupid and the logical. And see what rings true for YOU.

Frankly, though, I didn't like that spoiled boy didn't get his wish to come in to your apartment but then felt okay to ask you to fool around in the car. Then you went over-board apologizing for slapping him. Stop that immediately. You have already apologized and you are letting yourself be manipulated into feeling bad for NOT wanting to do something you didn't want to do. Then he uses this to ask you more questions about your sexual past, another tool to get you to feel bad about yourself for not giving in to his demands. Manipulation. 
What answer would be agreeable to him? lol see where I'm going with this? Think about how he would react to different answers to those questions. Any way you can win? doubtful.
I feel that he isn't Mr. Right but wants to be Mr. Right Now. He waited three months then starts heavy pressuring, and questioning your past. Disrespectful. Has he expressed that you are both exclusive? Have a read...Act Like a Lady, Think Like A Man by Steve Harvey.

Friday night sounds like you have been guilted into putting out.
I agree with most of what Elegirl, SoulPotato, CarribeanMan and especially SlowlyGettingWiser have said. Good caring advice.

This is a good learning experience on your way to eventually finding a good healthy relationship.


----------



## ntamph

If this guy were someone new and she had decided to wait before having sex (I don't give a fly **** about her past) but he was pushing it I would tell her run and keep her standards.

BUT SHE HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT SHE CONSIDERS HIM TO BE THE BEST SHE'S EVER HAD AND WANTS TO MAKE THE RELATIONSHIP SERIOUS.

I would imagine that if someone you like that much came on to you you would have a hard time resisting but she just instinctively slapped him.

Bad sign.

Wanting to "make up" now is also bad because nowhere has she mentioned that she is sexually attracted to him. He needs to watch out.


----------



## ntamph

Unique Username said:


> He asked something inappropriate and you quickly reacted with a slap to his face. This tells me that YOU didn't like how or what he asked you to do...I'm guessing it was a BJ or a HJ and yeah your reaction was actually spot on. It was, for whatever reason what YOU didn't want to do and you felt demeaned by his asking. He was actually being a spoiled brat, selfish and stupid.


The dismissal of her violence as something he deserved ("he made you hit him") is the most disturbing part of this thread.


----------



## chillymorn

after 2-3 month of dating I would think sex should be on the plate if I were him I'd be gone. 

either she finds him attractive and desires to be intimate or shes so broken she will hold the sex card over his head with excuses like I don't feel emotionaly attached so your not gettin any.


if she dosen't have thoses feeling yet then hes not the guy for her and thats ok ......then shuffle on down the road and find someone else who will wait as long as she wants.


I get the women have to feel safe and feel an emotional attachment but men also have to get some of their needs met like the feeling that the woman your dating has sexual desire for them if not then its a control them through sex kinda game and that don't fly with most men.


I would be worried that his sexual needs will always be on the back burner if this relationship continues.


----------



## ntamph

She's never said here that she's sexually attracted to him and just keeping her standards. She only mentions that he makes her feel good and takes her on nice dates but she doesn't actually EVER want to have sex with him.

Bad boys are for sex and nice guys are for everything else. It's impossible for women to accept sex + all other relationship stuff in one man. His gentleman-like qualities are what revolt her.


----------



## Caribbean Man

LonelyinLove said:


> My last date had to wait almost 2 years to get into my bed....our wedding day.
> 
> He was the only guy who ever did get that far...a fact he is still very happy about.
> 
> Don't do anything you don't want to...and any man that can't respect that, doesn't respect you.


Haha!
My wife made me wait one whole year , until the night of our honeymoon.
However I have never asked or begged her for sex.
She made it clear in front that even though she wanted sex , she was waiting till marriage.


----------



## Unique Username

We will obviously be diametrically opposed ntamph. You are angry at all women. That is apparent from every twisted post I've read of yours. 
Either mommy or gf or ex-wife hurt your feelbads and seriously bruised your ego. The ex probably withheld sex from you and you want to get even by now wanting bang every chick who will let you. But of course don't forget the document you want them to sign so that if they get pregnant you want to recuse yourself from any financial responsibility.



It wasn't him expressing an interest in her by asking for a BJ or a HJ in the car. He was simply trying another way to get his rocks off, in a car in the parking lot of her apartment building. Pretty seedy.

I would have handled it much differently than she did, but I'm also probably older and wiser with different life experience and education. I also don't think it was as huge a deal as some of you are making it. She won't do it again and he will get over it. Their relationship probably won't...and well then it is what it is. Everything always works out in the end...usually for the better.


----------



## LonelyinLove

ntamph said:


> The dismissal of her violence as something he deserved ("he made you hit him") is the most disturbing part of this thread.


You're really hung up on that aren't you....she over-reacted and apologized. 

He asked inappropriate questions and for car sex....

They both need to back the truck up....She should be honest with him although she is not obligated to discuss her past...not at this point.

And he thinks he should get sex after just a few dates? 

Really??? I thought it was also refered to as "making love"....

Guy must follow the three date rule


----------



## ntamph

Unique Username said:


> I would have handled it much differently than she did, but I'm also probably older and wiser with different life experience and education. I also don't think it was as huge a deal as some of you are making it. She won't do it again and he will get over it.


If a man posted mentioning that he had slapped his girlfriend because she made a request that took him by surprise how would you respond?


----------



## ntamph

LonelyinLove said:


> And he thinks he should get sex after just a few dates?


More like 25 over three months.


----------



## john_lord_b3

I hope someone could give good, objective advice which are useful for both parties, without making OP sounds like a stupid girl and her boyfriend sounds like a criminal. *praying*


----------



## LonelyinLove

ntamph said:


> If a man posted mentioning that he had slapped his girlfriend because she made a request that took him by surprise how would you respond?


On the off chance that you are really a clueless 19 year old, here is a history lesson...not to long ago, when a man was out of line with a woman, he suffered the corrective face-slap.

Methinks you protest to much.....


----------



## Unique Username

What difference does it make how long or how many dates.
We weren't given any backstory, this isn't a movie where you see the past three months and their conversations and actions. 

Stop taking it out on everyone else your unhappiness with sex and women in your previous relationships. You are going to be a really unhappy person if you continue to nurture this rage and pain you have ntamph. And I do empathize with any of the chicks you have dated post bad situation as I can easily see how you take it out on them. They aren't your ex.

ScubaSteve actually said it beautifully.....let it happen organically "Let things happen in their own time. When you feel ready for it, when the passion is there, let it happen in the moment. Don't try to shoehorn it in. "


----------



## ntamph

LonelyinLove said:


> On the off chance that you are really a clueless 19 year old, here is a history lesson...not to long ago, when a man was out of line with a woman, he suffered the corrective face-slap.
> 
> Methinks you protect to much.....


She slapped him because HE SAID SOMETHING. He didn't grab or follow her or not let her out of the car. 

I'm not 19, but you are right that times have changed. Men (good men who are ready to wait months for sex and take slaps in the face) need to watch out for their best interests.


----------



## LonelyinLove

ntamph said:


> More like 25 over three months.



Oh the humanity.....25 dates with nothing but a kiss good-night....

I say we throw her in jail! :rofl:


----------



## ntamph

LonelyinLove said:


> Oh the humanity.....25 dates with nothing but a kiss good-night....
> 
> I say we throw her in jail! :rofl:


Why does the man of her dreams (she's been clear about this) have to wait months or years for sex but her horrible exes had to wait days?


----------



## LonelyinLove

ntamph said:


> Why does the man of her dreams (she's been clear about this) have to wait months or years for sex but her horrible exes had to wait days?


Because if she's the woman of HIS dreams...he'll wait until the time is right for both of them, instead of pushing the issue like a whiny, horney, entitled frat boy.

If not....good riddance.


----------



## ScubaSteve61

LonelyinLove said:


> Because if she's the woman of HIS dreams...he'll wait untill the time is right for both of them, instead of pushing the issue like a whiny, horney, entitled frat boy.
> 
> If not....good riddance.


:iagree: QFT


----------



## ntamph

LonelyinLove said:


> instead of pushing the issue like a whiny, horney, entitled frat boy.


Yeah, waiting months and forgiving her violence is exactly what a frat boy would do.


----------



## Unique Username

ntamph said:


> Why does the man of her dreams (she's been clear about this) have to wait months or years for sex but her horrible exes had to wait days?


Why do you care? It isn't you. You have said you'd be long gone if she wouldn't put out within the 3rd date. You are abrasive and you think that all women are cunning, conning and maniacal. 
I would have to agree with LonelyInLove....you may not be 19 but your attitudes are certainly rather immature and unrealistic. 

Why? Because she thought he WAS the man of her dreams she was making this relationship special, the first time special and different from previous relationships.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

WOW!!! This thread blew up. I'm posting in response to the initial post by the OP. I'll go back and read further.

I think you've missed ONE VERY important detail when dealing with your BF. Communication.

Lets say I'm a decent guy (decent enough to wait 2 months) but still very interested in sex (enough to bring it up etc.) which is what your BF seems to be. This is what I'd need.

"Dad&Hubby, I've had an incredible time with you over the last couple months. I'm really interested to see where this is going. I need you to understand why I've said no to sex in different, and embarrassing, ways. It's not that I don't want to have sex with you. I'm just scared. I've made mistakes in the past of having sex too early and picking the wrong kind of guy. You're SO MUCH better of a man than I've been with before that I don't want to screw it up. I don't want you feeling insulted or thinking I'm not interested. That's the furthest from the truth. In fact it's the opposite. I'm TOO interested and don't want this going badly."

If he IS the guy he seems to be....He'll understand and not pressure you as much.

The problem here and the reason for the two completely different attitudes you're getting is because you've strung your BF along. For good reasons, but without understanding your reasons, it's still stringing him along. It is 100% your body and YOU need to do what's right for YOU!! But you shouldn't keep it a secret either.


----------



## ntamph

Unique Username said:


> Why? Because she thought he WAS the man of her dreams she was making this relationship special, the first time special and different from previous relationships.


So, if I have a history of being treated badly by women and I meet the woman of my dreams I make a promise to myself that our dates won't be anything more than coffee at a cafe for months or years because I want to really get to know her?

If a woman posted something like this women would be telling her to dump that cheap piece of **** no good loser because you deserve better.


----------



## ntamph

Having sex too early with her exes is NOT what ruined those relationships.

Picking those men in the first place is what caused her hurt.

If sex will ruin the relationship then they should never have sex.


----------



## Unique Username

Beautiful way to put it Dad&Hubby

Friday night have this talk with him, don't plan on sex until it is making love. Wait until you feel good about your relationship, that you have both decided to be exclusive, and give it a little time so you don't feel awkward anymore. See his reactions to what Dad&Hubby wrote for you....really nice way to get it across to him don't you think?!


----------



## Dad&Hubby

ntamph said:


> Let's say a man has been used by his exes for his money (women went on dates with him but then broke up after he wanted the relationship to move further).
> 
> Should any woman he dates in the future be happy with a date at McDonald's because he needs to evaluate their true intentions?


So you're equating giving of someone's body to the difference between Outback and McDonalds?

So her body is worth...$60? (the difference between a nice date dinner and McDonalds?)

She's not wrong for waiting. I wish more women DID wait frankly. But I'm not going to threadjack on my soapbox. She's wrong for not making her feelings and wants known to her BF.


----------



## ntamph

Dad&Hubby said:


> So you're equating giving of someone's body to the difference between Outback and McDonalds?
> 
> So her body is worth...$60? (the difference between a nice date dinner and McDonalds?)
> 
> She's not wrong for waiting. I wish more women DID wait frankly. But I'm not going to threadjack on my soapbox. She's wrong for not making her feelings and wants known to her BF.


She's wrong for thinking that her current boyfriend somehow represents all of her exes.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

About the sex thing, ladies, we're considered used and less desirable as a long term mate if we have sex fast but if we don't have sex within some magical time period then we're just toying with the man and he should move on.
Countless men here say they don't want a partner with higher numbers then we have some here saying if the woman isn't having sex then she's a waste of time. LOL


Awesome isn't it?


----------



## Hicks

First, you don't understand what sex means to a man. That's normal since you are a woman. But hopefully reading this thread and the comments your boyfriend made help you to realize it.

The second problem is you purposely portrayed yourself as chaste to a man you wanted to keep, and you are not chaste. And he now knows that. He's been betrayed.

Now, here is the thing. There is really no harm in verbalizing that you made him wait becuase you he is more special and you wanted to put your best foot forward. But that in retrospect you can see that was a mistake and you hurt him, and that you are sorry.

He needs time to process this information. ALL MEN find out things about their girlfriends that they wished they didn't know about. He will process it in his own way and will either decide to stick with you or he will decide that he should move on.... I would say that since it's common today for a man to find out that women have a past, that it would not be a deal breaker. But who knows.


----------



## Unique Username

I actually have a job and other more important things to do than to argue with someone who is clearly confused ntamph

power on with your unhappy rage...hopefully not too many are sucked in to your dark abyss

You see things as black and white and no shades between. You jump from one extreme to the other. Too rigid in your thinking. How in the world would anyone live up to your expectations...lol they'd give you an expectation and you would shoot them down and say the exact opposite.
Or you are simply getting your jollies by trolling to create drama.


----------



## movealong

I'm reminded of a quote from Anchor Man: Wow! That escalated quickly!


To the OP: do what you feel is right. Listen to the reasoned and logical responses here, then make your decisions.


----------



## LonelyinLove

ntamph said:


> Yeah, waiting months and forgiving her violence is exactly what a frat boy would do.


Seriously, dude....

:rofl:

She owes him nothing more than the apology she gave him.

He asked for sex in a car. A CAR!!! Really? He asked inappropriate questions for even 3 months of dating.

Someone really messed with you didn't they.....I am sorry about that, really, I am, heart pain is the worst...but the entire female universe shouldn't have to "give it up" because you got burned.

There really are some very nice girls out there that can heal your heart but your 180 has turned into a 360....and you know where that gets you???? 

Right back where you started...


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Caribbean Man said:


> Look,
> Any man who has to ask a woman whom he is dating ,for sex does not know his way around women.
> 
> Women respond to seduction , not " 20 questions" or an entitlement attitude about sex.
> 
> I have NEVER had to ask any woman for sex or find out
> " where I stood " with her. These type of questions indicate that he lacks the finesse to seduce her mind and that he's behind the 8 ball.
> 
> My guess is that this guy has had trouble in the past with getting sex from other women whom he has dated.


I liked this post...but that's not enough. It needs to be quoted.


----------



## ntamph

ScarletBegonias said:


> About the sex thing, ladies, we're considered used and less desirable as a long term mate if we have sex fast but if we don't have sex within some magical time period then we're just toying with the man and he should move on.
> Countless men here say they don't want a partner with higher numbers then we have some here saying if the woman isn't having sex then she's a waste of time. LOL
> 
> 
> Awesome isn't it?


I couldn't care less about how many men a woman has slept with but I would worry about the contradiction between being told I'm better than all of them so I need to be treated worse than all of them.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

No guy wants to feel like he's not as good, as desired, as ALL of the past boyfriends. Her actions say she's just not that into him.


----------



## chillymorn

ScarletBegonias said:


> About the sex thing, ladies, we're considered used and less desirable as a long term mate if we have sex fast but if we don't have sex within some magical time period then we're just toying with the man and he should move on.
> Countless men here say they don't want a partner with higher numbers then we have some here saying if the woman isn't having sex then she's a waste of time. LOL
> 
> 
> Awesome isn't it?


I think your generalising here.

yes its a game of sorts just like all dating. shouldn't have sex too soon but you shouldn't wait too long theres a time frame of sorts. just like you shouldn't say I love you too soon or wait too long its called dating.

she is perfectly with in her right to wait as long as she wants and he is perfectly with in his right to sya this is bull and I'm moving on. and if that happens then they just weren't right for eachother.the chemistry just wasn't there for them as a couple.


there is no right or wrong time framr its unique for everybody and every couple.


----------



## tom67

chillymorn said:


> I think your generalising here.
> 
> yes its a game of sorts just like all dating. shouldn't have sex too soon but you shouldn't wait too long theres a time frame of sorts. just like you shouldn't say I love you too soon or wait too long its called dating.
> 
> she is perfectly with in her right to wait as long as she wants and he is perfectly with in his right to sya this is bull and I'm moving on. and if that happens then they just weren't right for eachother.the chemistry just wasn't there for them as a couple.
> 
> 
> there is no right or wrong time framr its unique for everybody and every couple.


Exactly.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I don't see how not having sex in a car after a short period of dating is treating the man worse than exes were treated.
Hitting aside on this bc,OP,you were dead wrong in doing that.You don't hit another human being.You're not a 4 year old throwing a tantrum,you're a grown woman so act like it. If anything refraining from rushing into sex CAN show more care is being taken in building a relationship that isn't fueled on beginners lust.Depends on how you're looking at it I suppose.


People ARE allowed to change.Ladies who once slept with someone quickly are allowed to stop behaving that way and they are allowed to try to get to know someone before they commit to a sexual relationship with that person.Ladies who used to wait a long time for sex are allowed to change and jump into bed w/a man they barely know. It happens. PEOPLE CHANGE.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

chillymorn said:


> I think your generalising here.
> 
> yes its a game of sorts just like all dating. shouldn't have sex too soon but you shouldn't wait too long theres a time frame of sorts. just like you shouldn't say I love you too soon or wait too long its called dating.
> 
> she is perfectly with in her right to wait as long as she wants and he is perfectly with in his right to sya this is bull and I'm moving on. and if that happens then they just weren't right for eachother.the chemistry just wasn't there for them as a couple.
> 
> 
> there is no right or wrong time framr its unique for everybody and every couple.


You're right, I'm generalizing. It's the general attitude that when it comes to sex,ladies are f**ked no matter when they decide to f**k.


----------



## ntamph

I need to keep this thread in mind when dating.

You will not be rewarded for treating a woman like a human being and getting to know her and respecting her boundaries.

However, pumping and dumping will keep them coming back for more.


----------



## chillymorn

ScarletBegonias said:


> You're right, I'm generalizing. It's the general attitude that when it comes to sex,ladies are f**ked no matter when they decide to f**k.


LOL did Confucius say that?

guy with hole in pocket feels ****y all day. I think he said that.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

JaneDoe2013 said:


> So he actually came over and we had a short talk I guess. He just left and I feel exhausted cause it did not go well.
> 
> I know you are all saying he is not a gentleman because he's pressuring me to do something (sex) that I don't want to do etc. That really is not fair. It's not so much I don't want to do it, it's that I want him to see the other sides of me. And maybe it was a bit of game playing which I never should have done.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't get into specifics but I told him that some of the stuff in my past may not have been the right thing to do and that I care for him and that I want us to be a strong couple. He actually said that he wants us to be a couple as well which was a relief!! But he said he thinks that I don't find him sexually attractive and that if I did we would have "done it" long ago. He insisted on knowing about timing and stuff with other guys and I admitted that a very few were kind of quick. He pushed it so I said like maybe a week or so. He did not like that. He just swallowed and didn't say much.
> 
> Like some of you suggested I said I waited because he was special and I wanted to do it right. He just does not get that line of thought. He threw back at me that I had sex in a week with guys that didn't mean much, but I am making him wait over two months. I tried to kiss him but he pulled away and left.
> 
> To answer some of your questions, he's 27 and I'm 29.
> 
> To NuckingFuts, yeah, I know I've disrespected him. Other than the obvious which I am going to do, I need to show him that he really is special. And it makes me feel ****ty because Truthseeker is right that I "gave the other guys a good time and my guy gets to hold my hand. ANyway, that's it. I know I screwewd up. I just have to find a way for him to get past this.
> 
> I am going to call him later. I really hope he picks up cause I know he feels hurt.


You need to call him and throw yourself on the sword. Claim temporary insanity because of how strong you feel for him. I'd ALMOST say to say "Love makes you do crazy things"...but saying love early is a tough one, especially if you don't actually love him yet, which I know you can't know yet.

Explain you feel stronger for him, both physically but more important EMOTIONALLY, than you've felt for other guys and you didn't know what to do. You didn't want to make a mistake, and you ended up making a mistake because of it. You should've told him all along what you felt and what your thoughts were.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

ntamph said:


> I need to keep this thread in mind when dating.
> 
> You will not be rewarded for treating a woman like a human being and getting to know her and respecting her boundaries.
> 
> However, pumping and dumping will keep them coming back for more.


If this is the case and is what you experience then you are surrounding yourself with bratty spoiled girls and girls with mental issues. 

This is not how mature and emotionally healthy women behave.


----------



## ntamph

Dad&Hubby said:


> Explain you feel stronger for him, both physically but more important EMOTIONALLY, than you've felt for other guys and you didn't know what to do.


Then she would be lying.


----------



## chillymorn

ntamph said:


> I need to keep this thread in mind when dating.
> 
> You will not be rewarded for treating a woman like a human being and getting to know her and respecting her boundaries.
> 
> However, pumping and dumping will keep them coming back for more.


ther are some that fall for this but there not keepers. JMHO.


----------



## ntamph

Mavash. said:


> I see where SB is coming from and I understood it before I ever had sex. My daddy taught me well.
> 
> I never felt screwed by the double standard because I accepted it and yes I played the game and played it well.
> 
> I was wise enough to limit my sexual partners, wait the appropriate time frame, blah, blah, blah....
> 
> Were there times when I wanted to say the heck with it all and sleep with the hot guy I just met? Yes but I didn't. The price I knew I'd pay with Mr. Right wasn't worth it to me.
> 
> I married Mr. Right and my strategy paid off. My Mr Right absolutely cared about my past and asked all the questions. Some men don't care but some do.


I would have married you if you had slept with 1000 men.

But not if you had slapped me for daring to suggest that I was sexually attracted to you.


----------



## JustGrinding

I can’t believe that sex has become such a political football in this relationship already. It usually takes couples DECADES to build communication and resentment issues leading to this type of emotional blackmail/manipulation. This relationship is effed up already and it hasn’t even started. It astounds me that the OP (and a lot of the posters here, for that matter) can’t see it or sense it.

The poster who recommended OP study how to have a healthy relationship before going any further with _anyone_ gives the best advice. That goes double for the guy, who apparently feels entitled to her body based on a certain number of dates or amount of time invested. 

2013, if I were in his place, the cordial "good night" you received from me the night you slapped my face would've been the last words you ever heard from my mouth.


----------



## ntamph

JustGrinding said:


> 2013, if I were in his place, the cordial "good night" you received from me the night you slapped my face would've been the last words you ever heard from my mouth.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## chillymorn

ntamph said:


> Then she would be lying.


give it a rest brother.

listen and learn there is good information here.

didn't your dad ever have the talk with you. your attitude will turn almost all women off maybe thats the problem.

is a game a dance keep your eyes wide open and play it if you feel like she not playing it also them move on and start over with someone else.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JustGrinding said:


> 2013, if I were in his place, the cordial "good night" you received from me the night you slapped my face would've been the last words you ever heard from my mouth.


I agree. OP,this is not Gone with the Wind and you don't get to pull a Scarlett O'Hara. Sorry!


----------



## ntamph

chillymorn said:


> give it a rest brother.
> 
> listen and learn there is good information here.
> 
> didn't your dad ever have the talk with you. your attitude will turn almost all women off maybe thats the problem.
> 
> is a game a dance keep your eyes wide open and play it if you feel like she not playing it also them move on and start over with someone else.


I know it's a game. The OP said she was playing a game. I just wish I could help that poor SOB boyfriend.


----------



## ScubaSteve61

ntamph said:


> I would have married you if you had slept with 1000 men.
> 
> But not if you had slapped me for daring to suggest that I was sexually attracted to you.


If he'd said "I must say, I am quite sexually attracted to you.", then that is one thing.

However, I am getting the impression from the OP that it was more like "Hey, we're both here in the car, why don't you go down on me."

I'm a little more understanding about a slap in the face for that one. Yeah, maybe if they've been doing it for a while, then that comment in the car would be ok, risqué, etc. However, they haven't gone there with intimacy... That's more of a statement a player makes to the chick whose name he isn't sure of that he picked up at last call.


----------



## chillymorn

ntamph said:


> I know it's a game. The OP said she was playing a game. I just wish I could help that poor SOB boyfriend.


who care about him worry about your self and take it up a notch. let the games begin!


----------



## richie33

My girlfriend asked me awkward questions.....I slapped her in the face. How well would that go over? 
25 dates is enough time for a couple to feel comfortable enough with each other that a healthy discussion about sex can be had. Her response is a back hand? He should head for the hills.


----------



## ntamph

ScubaSteve61 said:


> That's more of a statement a player makes to the chick whose name he isn't sure of that he picked up at last call.


Players don't wait three months wining and dining women. The guy has been a "perfect gentleman" and wants to know if she has any interest in him at all.


----------



## ntamph

richie33 said:


> my girlfriend asked me awkward questions.....i slapped her in the face. How well would that go over?


OMG!!!!!!! Call the police! You're a danger to women everywhere and need to be locked up forever!!!!!!!!


----------



## richie33

ScubaSteve61 said:


> If he'd said "I must say, I am quite sexually attracted to you.", then that is one thing.
> 
> However, I am getting the impression from the OP that it was more like "Hey, we're both here in the car, why don't you go down on me."
> 
> I'm a little more understanding about a slap in the face for that one. Yeah, maybe if they've been doing it for a while, then that comment in the car would be ok, risqué, etc. However, they haven't gone there with intimacy... That's more of a statement a player makes to the chick whose name he isn't sure of that he picked up at last call.


Maybe he asked at the end of the 25th date "hey can I come up to your place for a drink, maybe something more".


----------



## ScubaSteve61

ntamph said:


> Players don't wait three months wining and dining women. The guy has been a "perfect gentleman" and wants to know if she has any interest in him at all.


Then he went about it in 150% the wrong way.


----------



## LonelyinLove

ScubaSteve61 said:


> I'm a little more understanding about a slap in the face for that one. Yeah, maybe if they've been doing it for a while, then that comment in the car would be ok, risqué, etc. However, they haven't gone there with intimacy... That's more of a statement a player makes to the chick whose name he isn't sure of that he picked up at last call.


Yep....and how many girls were told by their parents.."if he tries anything, you smack his face!"

A ton, that's how many....I was told that (never had to do it), all my friends were told that, my oldest daughter was told that by her dad (I never saw the reason, she was a Black Belt and able to best most of the men in her class).

How often do we SAY things that we wish we could take back? The tongue can hurt as much or more then the hand.

Doesn't mean it's okay to smack, but if some boy gets too frisky with my daughters......:nono:...gonna have to answer to the Dad!


----------



## Starstarfish

Again, the responses to threads like this make me so glad I'm married. 

I don't think I'd be able to successfully navigate the sex early enough into dating you aren't a prude/friendzone/dead fish/see him as a Beta provider, but not so early he questions years into your relationship if you were a s!ut before you married. 

If I ever find myself divorced, I'm heading to a nunnery. (Lucky for me, there's one 30 minutes from here.)


----------



## LonelyinLove

Starstarfish said:


> Again, the responses to threads like this make me so glad I'm married.
> 
> I don't think I'd be able to successfully navigate the sex early enough into dating you aren't a prude/friendzone/dead fish/see him as a Beta provider, but not so early he questions years into your relationship if you were a s!ut before you married.
> 
> If I ever find myself divorced, I'm heading to a nunnery. (Lucky for me, there's one 30 minutes from here.)


I'm with you....

And funny, there's a convent not far from my hometown too


----------



## chillymorn

Starstarfish said:


> Again, the responses to threads like this make me so glad I'm married.
> 
> I don't think I'd be able to successfully navigate the sex early enough into dating you aren't a prude/friendzone/dead fish/see him as a Beta provider, but not so early he questions years into your relationship if you were a s!ut before you married.
> 
> If I ever find myself divorced, I'm heading to a nunnery. (Lucky for me, there's one 30 minutes from here.)


is it called a nunnery because they arn't getting nun?


----------



## golfergirl

I don't see where he tried to bang her in the car? I see where he made a sexual suggestion and he was trying to get her to come up. I see so much personal opinion on this thread based on nothing the OP has said. I am a woman with low numbers and do not have sex recreationally or easily. But that is communicated with my reasons why and it isn't used as coy leverage. I also see where the slap is dismissed either by expanding fictionally on what OP said (he pulled out his Johnson and asked for blow job or he wanted to bang her in the car - who wouldn't slap him?' Or by dismissing it, 'yes but that isn't what OP is asking here' . Wow what a heated topic. I really don't see what this guy did wrong. I see what OP did wrong and when she's coming around, people are trying to back her off. No jumping in pity sex isn't a good idea. He will feel like a loser and she will feel used. I don't know how THIS relationship can be repaired. But learn from it. Communicate from the start. Waiting for sex is fine, just don't let him feel like it's because you don't find him hot. That's where his mind is right now. At first he may have thought virgin and now he knows the truth. Not sure he can recover from that.
See what I did? I responded using information the OP provided. Some posters should try that once in awhile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chillymorn

golfergirl said:


> I don't see where he tried to bang her in the car? I see where he made a sexual suggestion and he was trying to get her to come up. I see so much personal opinion on this thread based on nothing the OP has said. I am a woman with low numbers and do not have sex recreationally or easily. But that is communicated with my reasons why and it isn't used as coy leverage. I also see where the slap is dismissed either by expanding fictionally on what OP said (he pulled out his Johnson and asked for blow job or he wanted to bang her in the car - who wouldn't slap him?' Or by dismissing it, 'yes but that isn't what OP is asking here' . Wow what a heated topic. I really don't see what this guy did wrong. I see what OP did wrong and when she's coming around, people are trying to back her off. No jumping in pity sex isn't a good idea. He will feel like a loser and she will feel used. I don't know how THIS relationship can be repaired. But learn from it. Communicate from the start. Waiting for sex is fine, just don't let him feel like it's because you don't find him hot. That's where his mind is right now. At first he may have thought virgin and now he knows the truth. Not sure he can recover from that.
> See what I did? I responded using information the OP provided. Some posters should try that once in awhile.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


why just some shouldn't all posters do that?


----------



## bandit.45

This exhausting thread has reinforced my belief that I have done the right thing by taking myself out of the dating and marriage market. 

I'm going to spend my extra money on fishing and hunting.


----------



## Mavash.

See I'm against her slapping him but the fact that he mentioned a sexual favor is a turn off. This guy isn't a keeper in my book. And yes I've dated my share of men that would do exactly that. I didn't marry them.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> This exhausting thread has reinforced my belief that I have done the right thing by taking myself out of the dating and marriage market.
> 
> I'm going to spend my extra money on fishing and hunting.


Golf
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

double post see below.


----------



## weightlifter

OP I interpret the timing question as him being afraid you are just stringing him along and why he is not good enough compared. He probably is a "nice guy" who has heard "lets just be friends 10 times too often"

My ESTIMATE of a best script for tonight. Understand i could be dead wrong. 

He comes over. Smile at him.
"John you mean a huge amount to me. I love our relationship and see you as a great boyfriend for your patience with me. You asked me about my past and it is true. I have slept with men faster. These did not work out and it hurt me badly.

I have now over reacted the other direction and made you wait too long like I let the others wait too short. Then I hit you and hurt you. I am sorry.
[pause 3 seconds]
Will you forgive me?"

Have on a dress with nothing on underneath. One of those dresses that buttons on the top that can fall to the floor. It should NOT be see through as you need HIS REAL REACTION AND ANSWER and he should not be able to see your goods.

If he says he forgives you go up to him whisper "thank you" medium kiss him only.

If he responds to a medium kiss after perhaps 10 seconds... Go for the tonsilectomy kiss.

If that works. Take 4 steps back so you are in full view and undo the buttons at the dress and let it fall to the floor. Take his hand and lead him to the bed hand in hand"

Then rock his world. Make it a several hour session not a single screw. Be a bit creative. Perhaps some oral etc. This does not mean whips and chains. 

He may not last long as he has been waiting and desiring you. If he goes too quickly just ask HIM for oral "just like you asked me" Do it with a devilish smile on your face. He should be ready for round 2 pretty quick and he should last hella longer on that go.

Yes its a big risk. If you want to keep him... I interpret this as the chance you should take.

FWIW. I make no claims as being an expert. Its my best estimate to try to turn the situation around. IF YOU DESIRE TO TURN IT AROUND!


----------



## chillymorn

bandit.45 said:


> This exhausting thread has reinforced my belief that I have done the right thing by taking myself out of the dating and marriage market.
> 
> I'm going to spend my extra money on fishing and hunting.


your gona need some porn. I know that hunting and looking a trees all day make me look like a tree! a hard oak ! just sayin.


----------



## john_lord_b3

golfergirl said:


> I don't see where he tried to bang her in the car? I see where he made a sexual suggestion and he was trying to get her to come up. I see so much personal opinion on this thread based on nothing the OP has said. I am a woman with low numbers and do not have sex recreationally or easily. But that is communicated with my reasons why and it isn't used as coy leverage. I also see where the slap is dismissed either by expanding fictionally on what OP said (he pulled out his Johnson and asked for blow job or he wanted to bang her in the car - who wouldn't slap him?' Or by dismissing it, 'yes but that isn't what OP is asking here' . Wow what a heated topic. I really don't see what this guy did wrong. I see what OP did wrong and when she's coming around, people are trying to back her off. No jumping in pity sex isn't a good idea. He will feel like a loser and she will feel used. I don't know how THIS relationship can be repaired. But learn from it. Communicate from the start. Waiting for sex is fine, just don't let him feel like it's because you don't find him hot. That's where his mind is right now. At first he may have thought virgin and now he knows the truth. Not sure he can recover from that.
> See what I did? I responded using information the OP provided. Some posters should try that once in awhile.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::smthumbup: Amein to that! Now we have a balanced perspective & useful advice. OP please listen to this advice and some of the earlier good advices.


----------



## Entropy3000

EleGirl said:


> I don't think that the women feel that they have to compete with men sexually to prove they are equal. (at least not even most of the promiscuous women.)
> 
> I think that there are needy women and horny women. And they have been taught that it's ok to jump in the sack with every guy they feel attracted to.
> 
> A lot of women, especially young women, do not realize that men see categorize women into the ones that are for fun and the ones who they will take seriously.
> 
> A lot of people think that promiscuity is not only acceptable but required to date. That’s what our popular culture is showing. Well if a person does not date they will not find a mate.
> 
> There are guys here who have the rule that if a woman does not sleep with him on the 3rd date. But those same guys will say that they will not marry (or take seriously) a promiscuous woman. Um... if a woman sleeps with ya on the 3rd date she is most likely promiscuous by definition.
> 
> *Some very mixed messages.*


Whatever the motivation I agree to there being mixed messages. This is why I am speaking out. 

I am also NOT trying to be PC because that is completely unhelpful to anyone. Lying does not help anyone. Also there are various agendas to navigate. 

Many guys want to be THE GUY. They look for a woman who loves sex. But that "mainly" has had sex within the context of LTRs. Not an easy lay. It is a maturing process of course. Most guys want to be special. They want this woman to be so taken by him. Just him, that she wants to have hot wild crazy sex with him sooner than she had sex with other guys. We want to be the exception. They do not want to be just a long line of guys.

Now some will bash this and that is fine. 

Also a guy who marries a woman who has had lots of sex with other guys she found more sexually attractive than him ... is a complete fool. She is too. Sex is important. No one wants to be settled for. Even that Big Bang Theory guy wants to be wanted for more than his pay check or just the non sexual things alone. Men need their woman to want them ... more than any other man on the planet.

I am not saying women are different here. I am just saying that this scenario is upside down but very common. If she does not want to rip his clothes off by now, I say he is not for her.

A lady on the street and a freak in the bed. But she needs to be freaky .... with me. is that too much to ask? LOL. 

I am NOT judging women who want to do there thing. But let's not judge the guys who want a different kind of woman.


----------



## Mavash.

Entropy3000 said:


> If she does not want to rip his clothes off by now, I say he is not for her.


This.


----------



## justonelife

Wow - Lots of different opinions here. What it boils down to me is this:

1. If you want to wait to have sex, that's fine. It doesn't make you a terrible woman or girlfriend. Just be honest about it to him and yourself about the reasons.

2. If a guy wants to have sex, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with him. It doesn't make him a player or terrible boyfriend. He's just being honest.

If you guys don't agree on the timing of sex, then it's not meant to be. Simple as that. Nobody is right or wrong.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Entropy3000 said:


> Women Have Become Too Easy - AskMen
> 
> Read this. You can disagree but many guys are starting to feel this way.


I haven't read past this point in the thread yet, but I wanted to comment on this part. The bottom line is BOTH men and women have become too easy. The door SHOULD swing both ways here as well. I know as a man I cared very much about how many people my GFs slept with. But you know what? The women SHOULD care just as much. If they see a guy slept with a lot of women, then it is only fair and IMHO necessary to tell the guy to hit the road too. If more people thought this way, the world would be a better place.

I'm all in favor of hot and wild porn star type sex, but it should be reserved for LTRs and marriages only. Casual sex anywhere and anytime is caustic to everyone. It needs to be greatly tempered.


----------



## bandit.45

chillymorn said:


> your gona need some porn. I know that hunting and looking a trees all day make me look like a tree! a hard oak ! just sayin.


Nah. F porn. I can't even get the old soldier on his feet anymore much less even stoke any arousal towards women anymore. 

I feel sorry for both JaneDoe and her boyfriend. She played around and had her fun with other men, but now she wants a "traditional" relationship where she controls the sex and her boyfriend has to take what scraps or mercy sex she gives him. 

As her boyfriend I would feel rightly insulted. 

I know she doesn't "mean" to be that way towrds him, but it is obvious she sees him as marriage material (steady employment, has a career plan, good stable head on his shoulders, has some religious and political views she agrees with, likes the same foods, blah, blah....) and she has an agenda now. She never had an agenda for the guys in her past she was putting out for. Those guys were hot and fun and made to be used for her to let loose and have fun with... and then walked away from. 

Her boyfriend is Mr. Safe, Mr. Steady. He's Mr Long Haul for her and she doesnt want to risk losing his respect if she puts out too early. It's a PR issue for her. She needs to control how he sees her, needs to demonstrate that if they do take the relationship to the next level, then SHE will be the one in control of the sex... and not just how much sex, but the type and intensity also. 

In the end, its all about _control_ my friends. That is what the politics of new marriages, sadly, are all about these days. Anyone who thinks that marriage is still about sharing and 50/50 partnership is behind the times. 

Her need for him to stick around as a safe, compliant partner is the only reason she is now considering giving him some mercy sex. The situation is spiraling out of control and she has to reign him back in before she loses Mr. Safe. 

Or she can take the honest road and be brutally honest with him: 

_"Yeah...I put myself out there and gave myself up too quickly for my past sex partners John . I was sowing my oats and having fun. Maybe doing so was stupid, but it is what it is and I cannot go back and change it. But I see in you a chance at a deeper, more fulfilling relationship than those men could have offered me. I want to move forward with you because I think you are truly a better and more desirable man than those other guys.

But I need you to show me that you are in this for the long haul John, and not just out for a piece of a$$. I promise you if you let me take my time, and we grow something deeper together, that I will not hold back sexually from you. I will give myself to you completely. But you need to understand that there are things that I did with my past partners that I tried but hated and never want to do again. So I don't know if I can promise you I will do those things for you. And if that is unacceptable to you, then I will understand if that is a dealbreaker. I won't hold it against you if you walk away." _

Or something like that. 

I dunno folks. This relationship sh!t just doesn't seem worth it to me anymore. I guess I'm turning into an old man.


----------



## john_lord_b3

bandit.45 said:


> Nah. F porn. I can't even get the old soldier on his feet anymore much less even stoke any arousal towards women anymore.
> 
> I feel sorry for both JaneDoe and her boyfriend. She played around and had her fun with other men, but now she wants a "traditional" relationship where she controls the sex and her boyfriend has to take what scraps or mercy sex she gives him.
> 
> As her boyfriend I would feel rightly insulted.
> 
> I know she doesn't "mean" to be that way towrds him, but it is obvious she sees him as marriage material (steady employment, has a career plan, good stable head on his shoulders, has some religious and political views she agrees with, likes the same foods, blah, blah....) and she has an agenda now. She never had an agenda for the guys in her past she was putting out for. Those guys were hot and fun and made to be used for her to let loose and have fun with... and then walked away from.
> 
> Her boyfriend is Mr. Safe, Mr. Steady. He's Mr Long Haul for her and she doesnt want to risk losing his respect if she puts out too early. It's a PR issue for her. She needs to control how he sees her, needs to demonstrate that if they do take the relationship to the next level, then SHE will be the one in control of the sex... and not just how much sex, but the type and intensity also.
> 
> In the end, its all about _control_ my friends. That is what the politics of new marriages, sadly, are all about these days. Anyone who thinks that marriage is still about sharing and 50/50 partnership is behind the times.
> 
> Her need for him to stick around as a safe, compliant partner is the only reason she is now considering giving him some mercy sex. The situation is spiraling out of control and she has to reign him back in before she loses Mr. Safe.
> 
> Or she can take the honest road and be brutally honest with him:
> 
> _"Yeah...I put myself out there and gave myself up too quickly for my past sex partners John . I was sowing my oats and having fun. Maybe doing so was stupid, but it is what it is and I cannot go back and change it. But I see in you a chance at a deeper, more fulfilling relationship than those men could have offered me. I want to move forward with you because I think you are truly a better and more desirable man than those other guys.
> 
> But I need you to show me that you are in this for the long haul John, and not just out for a piece of a$$. I promise you if you let me take my time, and we grow something deeper together, that I will not hold back sexually from you. I will give myself to you completely. But you need to understand that there are things that I did with my past partners that I tried but hated and never want to do again. So I don't know if I can promise you I will do those things for you. And if that is unacceptable to you, then I will understand if that is a dealbreaker. I won't hold it against you if you walk away." _
> 
> Or something like that.
> 
> I dunno folks. This relationship sh!t just doesn't seem worth it to me anymore. I guess I'm turning into an old man.


I don't agree with much of the above analysis, but some of the parts are very fit. It's a good analysis, very logical. Thank you Mr. Bandit. :smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45

john_lord_b3 said:


> I don't agree with much of the above analysis, but some of the parts are very fit. It's a good analysis, very logical. Thank you Mr. Bandit. :smthumbup:


What is it you disagree with? Don't just let it lie. Lets debate it.


----------



## john_lord_b3

The sex control thing, I don't think there are that many women are like that. I am sure, there are some, but, on the contrary, many more women will appreciate a good husband, and will have the hots for him. I am not shutting my eyes to the fact and horror stories in TAM, but TAM is an exceptional place: where _troubled_ people come to tell their stories. But surely, many women will understand the concept of "respect" and "gratefulness", much more than those who doesn't.


----------



## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> So, if I have a history of being treated badly by women and I meet the woman of my dreams I make a promise to myself that our dates won't be anything more than coffee at a cafe for months or years because I want to really get to know her?
> 
> If a woman posted something like this women would be telling her to dump that cheap piece of **** no good loser because you deserve better.


I dated a guy for most of a year. We saw each other several times a week. Most of our dates were walks. We'd walk for hours and talk. I absolutely loved it. Sometimes we'd walk to the house of friends or family members and drop in for a visit. He did take me out once for dinner at a small local restaurants. Sometimes I'd cook a meal at my place. 

There was no sex. He wanted to wait until he was sure.

Because we spent so much time together without the pressure of the usual trappings of DATING we got to really know each other. In the end we decided that we were not meant for each other. We parted with any bad feelings, there was no emotional garbage because we had not done mean things to each other .. you know the usual stupid drama.

Maybe dating in a low key way, going to coffee houses and just talking would be a very good idea. Though I prefer to walk and not sit all the time. Maybe then we would not have so many emotionally injured men/women in our society. Maybe we would not have so many abortions and babies born with no intact family. Maybe the incidence of STDs would not be an epidemic. Would that really be such a bad thing? I don't think so.


----------



## bandit.45

john_lord_b3 said:


> The sex control thing, I don't think there are that many women are like that. I am sure, there are some, but, on the contrary, many more women will appreciate a good husband, and will have the hots for him. I am not shutting my eyes to the fact and horror stories in TAM, but TAM is an exceptional place: where _troubled_ people come to tell their stories. But surely, many women will understand the concept of "respect" and "gratefulness", much more than those who doesn't.


I agree that not all people are like this, and understand I'm not talking just about women either. Men do the public relations control with their partners too. 

A good marriage is like a pair of ice dancing partners. They give and take control in order to keep the dance moving and flowing the way it should, and if they have a good, unselfish give/take dynamic in the relationship that drives the relationship towards the goals they share, then its all good. 

The control I'm talking about is selfish control. There are some people who want to take more than they give and to make sure they are being fed what they want, they use their partner's desire as a weapon against them. 

I know I sound harsh, but most of this stuff is done in a very subtle, almost invisible way. 

What I'm telling the OP to do is examine herself and see if she is trying to use sex to manipulate her boyfriend into sticking around, because she sees him as viable husband material. 

But if she, like some of the previous posters have said, is not lusting after him and wanting to jump his bones every minute, then she is deluding herself and sentencing him to a life of menial, duty sex. No man or woman wants that. That makes for a crap marriage and a sexualy unsatisfied spouse who does not deserve to be treated in such a way. 

From the way JaneDoe writes, she is just not that sexually attracted to him. She needs to explore if this is true, and if she is indeed less attracted to him than he is to her, then the relationship is doomed for misery.


----------



## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> I couldn't care less about how many men a woman has slept with but I would worry about the contradiction between being told I'm better than all of them so I need to be treated worse than all of them.


You are right on this. 

Saying that does not make sense. I believe that she is having trouble communicating what is going on in her head.

She is not being chaste (for lack of a better word) because he's the best guy she's ever dated. It's because she has learned that promiscuity has caused her emotional pain and not worked very well for her.


----------



## SadSamIAm

that_girl said:


> Just let it flow. Dang. Let this sit and keep talking and hanging out.
> 
> It's no joke that once you start having sex, most communication and learning about each other stops. You fill the time with sex and not words.


I don't agree. I think that once you start having sex, your conversations become much deeper. During day to day life, I don't open up much. But after a good romp, feeling loved, is when I open up and share much more.


----------



## EleGirl

chillymorn said:


> I think your generalising here.
> 
> yes its a game of sorts just like all dating. shouldn't have sex too soon but you shouldn't wait too long theres a time frame of sorts. just like you shouldn't say I love you too soon or wait too long its called dating.
> 
> she is perfectly with in her right to wait as long as she wants and he is perfectly with in his right to sya this is bull and I'm moving on. and if that happens then they just weren't right for eachother.the chemistry just wasn't there for them as a couple.
> 
> 
> there is no right or wrong time framr its unique for everybody and every couple.


It used to be the norm to wait for marriage to have sex.

So what you are saying here is the sex outside of marriage is mandatory now, and mandatory pretty within weeks of starting to date, in order for a woman to date and find a husband.


----------



## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> I would have married you if you had slept with 1000 men.
> 
> But not if you had slapped me for daring to suggest that I was sexually attracted to you.


Asking a woman for a blow job in the parking lot is not showing that you are sexually attracted to her. It shows that you are horny.


----------



## EleGirl

richie33 said:


> Maybe he asked at the end of the 25th date "hey can I come up to your place for a drink, maybe something more".


WE know that is not what he asked.

OP said that he asked that earlier in the evening and she said no because she knew it would lead to sex.

So they were sitting in the car before her going up to her apartment when he asked the question that offended.


----------



## john_lord_b3

bandit.45 said:


> I agree that not all people are like this, and understand I'm not talking just about women either. Men do the public relations control with their partners too.
> 
> *A good marriage is like a pair of ice dancing partners. They give and take control in order to keep the dance moving and flowing the way it should, and if they have a good, unselfish give/take dynamic in the relationship that drives the relationship towards the goals they share, then its all good*.
> 
> The control I'm talking about is selfish control. There are some people who want to take more than they give and to make sure they are being fed what they want, they use their partner's desire as a weapon against them.
> 
> I know I sound harsh, but most of this stuff is done in a very subtle, almost invisible way.
> 
> What I'm telling the OP to do is examine herself and see if she is trying to use sex to manipulate her boyfriend into sticking around, because she sees him as viable husband material.
> 
> But if she, like some of the previous posters have said, is not lusting after him and wanting to jump his bones every minute, then she is deluding herself and sentencing him to a life of menial, duty sex. No man or woman wants that. That makes for a crap marriage and a sexualy unsatisfied spouse who does not deserve to be treated in such a way.
> 
> *From the way JaneDoe writes, she is just not that sexually attracted to him. She needs to explore if this is true, and if she is indeed less attracted to him than he is to her, then the relationship is doomed for misery*.


Ah, :smthumbup::iagree: if written this way, I understand. The first part bolded, I agree 100%, the second part, I didn't really get it until you explained, this is logical too. Unbalanced relationship is not good for both. Thank you for the further explanation.


----------



## bunny23

Yeah this makes me think maybe this guy isn't who she thinks he is.. probably a wolf in sheep clothing 

That or he is really young and asks stupid questions.


----------



## Married but Happy

EleGirl said:


> It used to be the norm to wait for marriage to have sex.
> 
> So what you are saying here is the sex outside of marriage is mandatory now, and mandatory pretty within weeks of starting to date, in order for a woman to date and find a husband.


You sure do like to twist things to an absurd level!

Of course it's not mandatory. Besides, times have changed and the vast majority of people have sex outside of and before marriage. The key is finding someone who shares your values, and not expect to dictate what someone else "should" want or do.

For me, I wouldn't marry someone without first having sex sometime with them, and probably within the first few months of dating. I would also want to be together for a couple of years, perhaps even living together at some point. It takes a long time to really know someone and part of that is sexual compatibility. For example, how many times do we see threads about this very issue, where an LD and HD marry and are miserable? Or one has a fetish the other can't accept, in the more extreme cases?

If they do not want to have sex in a "reasonable" timeframe, then we probably have incompatible views on sexuality and its role in relationships, and it would be best if we realize that early and stop dating. She doesn't have to accomodate to my views, nor I hers.


----------



## samyeagar

Most people associate sex with attraction. When one person in the couple has way more partners than the other, it gets more difficult to convince the other that they really ARE that attracted. The message is sent that either there are tons of people you find attractive and I'm just one of many, and not really all that special or it says that you sleep with people who aren't THAT attractive to which again sends the message that sex with you really doesn't say anything about just how attracted you are to me. Regardless...the higher the partner count goes, the harder it becomes to use sex as an indicator of attraction.


----------



## Married but Happy

samyeagar said:


> Most people associate sex with attraction.


Sexual activity is ONE indicator of attraction. Don't lump all your attractions into one basket or you may miss out on deeper aspects of attraction and compatibility.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

ntamph said:


> She's never said here that she's sexually attracted to him and just keeping her standards. She only mentions that he makes her feel good and takes her on nice dates but she doesn't actually EVER want to have sex with him.
> 
> *Bad boys are for sex and nice guys are for everything else. It's impossible for women to accept sex + all other relationship stuff in one man.* His gentleman-like qualities are what revolt her.


Admittedly, I'm still up to this point only and don't know if anyone else responded to this yet...but this is pure, unadulterated bullsh!t. You may have personally witnessed this in your dating life or marriage, but I have never ran across this from women. Either I was lucky or - more likely - I knew pretty well which women were the ones to steer clear of and which ones were the good ones. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Also, food for thought. Maybe if you are the one that tends to be "friend zoned" and perceived to be the "stupid beta provider" by the women you are mixing with, the problem is actually YOU and not them. You are the problem because you are stupid enough to continue mixing with shallow and low life women.


----------



## chillymorn

EleGirl said:


> It used to be the norm to wait for marriage to have sex.
> 
> So what you are saying here is the sex outside of marriage is mandatory now, and mandatory pretty within weeks of starting to date, in order for a woman to date and find a husband.


prove it used to be the norm! just because thats what old school mom and grandma preached dosen't mean it was ever the norm. 

sex outside of marriage would be mandatory if she wanted to continue to date me. after 2 -3 months of dating I would expect some action if we had chemistry. If not fine I'll shuffle on down the road.


and I think most men would agree with my view point so In many cases the girl woud be limiting her pool of suiters if she just stringing them along for a long time before starting a sexual relationship.

Now I'm 47yrs old and if I ever find my self in a dating situation again I would not even think of ever getting married as per I believe marriage is for families as far as men goes at least where I live I see no real tangible benfits of marrige for a man or a woman for that matter . a peice of paper dose not equate what love is it just make your assets go away even if she cheats, steels nope not going down that road.


----------



## chillymorn

Married but Happy said:


> Sexual activity is ONE indicator of attraction. Don't lump all your attractions into one basket or you may miss out on deeper aspects of attraction and compatibility.


its at the top of the list for most guys. just sayin.

and very important to the sucess of most marriages.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Without more info from the OP, we have no idea if she is truthfully following the script people rail about where she has all her fun with the bad boys and then settles for the nice guy but curbs her sexuality greatly because he's a nice guy... OR ...she realizes that her previous dating methods were not working, that she realizes that she was treating herself with little respect and she decided that she wants to change herself for the better and make better decisions moving forward. 

I swear that there are too many jaded people on here trying to apply their personal experiences to ALL threads that pop up over here...


----------



## Dad&Hubby

EleGirl said:


> I dated a guy for most of a year. We saw each other several times a week. Most of our dates were walks. We'd walk for hours and talk. I absolutely loved it. Sometimes we'd walk to the house of friends or family members and drop in for a visit. He did take me out once for dinner at a small local restaurants. Sometimes I'd cook a meal at my place.
> 
> There was no sex. He wanted to wait until he was sure.
> 
> Because we spent so much time together without the pressure of the usual trappings of DATING we got to really know each other. In the end we decided that we were not meant for each other. We parted with any bad feelings, there was no emotional garbage because we had not done mean things to each other .. you know the usual stupid drama.
> 
> Maybe dating in a low key way, going to coffee houses and just talking would be a very good idea. Though I prefer to walk and not sit all the time. Maybe then we would not have so many emotionally injured men/women in our society. Maybe we would not have so many abortions and babies born with no intact family. Maybe the incidence of STDs would not be an epidemic. Would that really be such a bad thing? I don't think so.


What you describe there is very similar to old fashioned courting. There's something to be said about that. I have family (a brother and sister) that is.....religiously strict (but reasonably). They all have strong marriages, are genuinely happy, don't cheat on each other, respect each other etc. Both were high school sweet hearts, were their spouses (and the spouses back) firsts. Did the courting thing. Also did some sneaking out for a make out session (no sexual acts) like me driving them around town so they could make out in the back seat under the guise of the 3 of us going bowling LOL but that was as risque as it got.

There's something to be said about not completely losing your innocence before marriage and doing things in a much less game playing, stress free situation.


----------



## Starstarfish

> prove it used to be the norm! just because thats what old school mom and grandma preached dosen't mean it was ever the norm.


It was the norm for the long haul of human history because of the unpredictable nature and unavailability of affordable birth control. There wasn't the expectation of sex without marriage (unless you were paying for it), because sex = babies. And its difficult to hide you are having socially unacceptable sex once someone gets pregnant. And having socially unacceptable sex used to have serious social consequences for all involved, including the potential child, who'd spend the rest of their life with the label "bastard" if the parents weren't wealthy enough to get that covered up somehow. 

Did people still risk it? Yes of course. More than the parents or priests of the time assumed, certainly. But the fact was, there was still that final fear to get past, even if you dismissed all your religious, cultural, and familiar expectations. 

And the man could disappear, deny it, or pay you to go away. But the woman would have to deal, and thus it was in -her best interest- to wait for the social, religious, and financial assurance aka marriage that this thing was to last. 

And hence, as others have noted, there was less "dating" and more "courting."


----------



## karole

EleGirl said:


> *It used to be the norm to wait for marriage to have sex.
> *
> So what you are saying here is the sex outside of marriage is mandatory now, and mandatory pretty within weeks of starting to date, in order for a woman to date and find a husband.


I don't believe this. As long as there have been teenagers, there has been sex out of wedlock. Maybe it wasn't as publicized or acceptable as it is now, but it happened - a lot.


----------



## EleGirl

Starstarfish said:


> It was the norm for the long haul of human history because of the unpredictable nature and unavailability of affordable birth control. There wasn't the expectation of sex without marriage (unless you were paying for it), because sex = babies. And its difficult to hide you are having socially unacceptable sex once someone gets pregnant. And having socially unacceptable sex used to have serious social consequences for all involved, including the potential child, who'd spend the rest of their life with the label "bastard" if the parents weren't wealthy enough to get that covered up somehow.
> 
> Did people still risk it? Yes of course. More than the parents or priests of the time assumed, certainly. But the fact was, there was still that final fear to get past, even if you dismissed all your religious, cultural, and familiar expectations.
> 
> And the man could disappear, deny it, or pay you to go away. But the woman would have to deal, and thus it was in -her best interest- to wait for the social, religious, and financial assurance aka marriage that this thing was to last.
> 
> And hence, as others have noted, there was less "dating" and more "courting."


I think that it is still the woman who potentially bears the brunt of things gone wrong with uncommitted relationships where there is sex involved.

No birth control is 100%. They fail sometimes. A good number of unwanted pregnancies are due to failed BC. With STD's, a woman is more likely to end up with serious issues if it's untreatable or caught too late. So it's still in a woman's best interest to be more careful about her sex life then men need to be about theirs.


----------



## EleGirl

karole said:


> I don't believe this. As long as there have been teenagers, there has been sex out of wedlock. Maybe it wasn't as publicized or acceptable as it is now, but it happened - a lot.


See Dad&Hubby's post above. It was more like that. 

The way people have sex today is not what it was like when I was a teen and a young adult. 

Teens did not use to date. Parents and relatives chaperoned. It’s still like this in much of the world today. Dating is a modern social construct that is seen in Western culture and not much anywhere else.


----------



## ntamph

She's shown that his needs will never be a factor in any future sexual relationship they might have.

He can't demand sex, but a reasonable partner will always take their SO's needs into consideration.

If their relationship continues, she's made it clear that he is absolutely not allowed to even mention his needs and wants. It will be her wants and needs or nothing.

That's a recipe for a sexless marriage.


----------



## chillymorn

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Without more info from the OP, we have no idea if she is truthfully following the script people rail about where she has all her fun with the bad boys and then settles for the nice guy but curbs her sexuality greatly because he's a nice guy... OR ...she realizes that her previous dating methods were not working, that she realizes that she was treating herself with little respect and she decided that she wants to change herself for the better and make better decisions moving forward.
> 
> I swear that there are too many jaded people on here trying to apply their personal experiences to ALL threads that pop up over here...


there is not such beast as an unbiased opinion. the only thing most people have is past/Life experiances.

your correct that she might have decided to just slow things down because in the past her relationships have not panned out. but also impossible to say weather it was because she slept with her suiters too soon or they just decided that for whatever reason it just wasn't working out.


you can put whatever spin on it as you like the bottom line is as with all relationships theres a risk of it not working out and to find out you have to be vulerable to some degree.


lets see ....say you dated someone and eveything was great for two years soulmate kinda great. then you get married and you find out he has a micro penis or a gigantic penis either way sex is bascialy impossible. that would be a bummer for sure. or the man finds out she has been raped and never plans on having sex because she is to tramutised again bummer.


my personal opinion is that love dose not conqure all. you need some compatibility mixed with love to be sucessfull. in the areas that are important to the people in the relationship.


----------



## Entropy3000

LonelyinLove said:


> Because if she's the woman of HIS dreams...he'll wait until the time is right for both of them, instead of pushing the issue like a whiny, horney, entitled frat boy.
> 
> If not....good riddance.


I hear you and understand the spirit of this. But if she is a sexually experienced woman she is NOT the woman of my dreams if she does not get around to tearing my shirt off.

We are not talking about a virgin here. We are talking about a sexually experienced 29 y/o who used to go to bed with guys the first week. I applaud her wanting to change her life style. Indeed she can be a nun if she desires. BUT now deciding that this guy is so great they do not have sex?

I do not agree that the guy should be willing to wait in this case. I think he has every right to move on. IF she was crazy about him there would be intense sexual tension.

If she was so hot to bed these other guys why is she not with this guy. It is no longer the first week.

But indeed she needs to tell him the truth as so many have said and explain why she changed her life style.


----------



## ntamph

Entropy3000 said:


> I do not agree that the guy should be willing to wait in this case. I think he has every right to move on. IF she was crazy about him there would be intense sexual tension.
> 
> If she was so hot to bed these other guys why is she not with this guy. It is no longer the first week.


Exactly. She's never mentioned being attracted to him physically.


----------



## Entropy3000

ScarletBegonias said:


> About the sex thing, ladies, we're considered used and less desirable as a long term mate if we have sex fast but if we don't have sex within some magical time period then we're just toying with the man and he should move on.
> Countless men here say they don't want a partner with higher numbers then we have some here saying if the woman isn't having sex then she's a waste of time. LOL
> 
> 
> Awesome isn't it?


I only want you to have sex fast with .... ME.

Pretty simple really.

But no indeed it is not high value for a woman to sleep around having ONSs. It her right but it is lower value. Many guy swant to see that sex is not just sex to you. That you value sex in a relationship. Very different thing. Plus as I have stated. We want to be the exception. We do not want less sex than anyone else has been given for sure.


----------



## karole

EleGirl said:


> See Dad&Hubby's post above. It was more like that.
> 
> The way people have sex today is not what it was like when I was a teen and a young adult.
> 
> Teens did not use to date. Parents and relatives chaperoned. It’s still like this in much of the world today. Dating is a modern social construct that is seen in Western culture and not much anywhere else.


I do know that in my parent's generation, girls dated younger and married much younger than they do now. It most likely wasn't the young gentlemen who were chaperoned that caused the problems - it was the ones the young ladies would sneak off to meet in the middle of the night that the parents never knew about. LOL. People have had sex out of wedlock since the beginning of time. It may be more widely acceptable and talked about more now, but it has always happened.


----------



## Emerald

JaneDoe2013 said:


> I’m just worried that he’s going to be all about the questions this week and I don’t know what the best way to respond is.


Oh dear.....Take the 5th 

He wouldn't be so damn nosy if you were having sex with him. I am sure I'm much older than you. I've had plenty of LTR boyfriends & 2 husbands.

Sex with all of the above varied to first night to ...well you get the picture.

None of them asked the questions he is asking you. I think he sounds very insecure. He wants to see how he compares to your previous boyfriends. Heed this red flag.


----------



## EleGirl

karole said:


> I do know that in my parent's generation, girls dated younger and married much younger than they do now. It most likely wasn't the young gentlemen who were chaperoned that caused the problems - it was the ones the young ladies would sneak off to meet in the middle of the night that the parents never knew about. LOL. People have had sex out of wedlock since the beginning of time. It may be more widely acceptable and talked about more now, but it has always happened.


In my grandmother's generation, born in the late 1800's, most of the women married very young. My grandmother was 14 when she married. My grandfather as 19. They did not date. 

Sure, there have always been people who had sex out of wedlock. Have I denied that? No.

The point is that men did not expect/demand it from every woman they saw as a potential mate. With the dating situation today.. it seems that a lot of men expect sex with just about any woman they see on about the 3rd time they are together.


----------



## justonelife

EleGirl said:


> I dated a guy for most of a year. We saw each other several times a week. Most of our dates were walks. We'd walk for hours and talk. I absolutely loved it. Sometimes we'd walk to the house of friends or family members and drop in for a visit. He did take me out once for dinner at a small local restaurants. Sometimes I'd cook a meal at my place.
> 
> There was no sex. He wanted to wait until he was sure.
> 
> Because we spent so much time together without the pressure of the usual trappings of DATING we got to really know each other. In the end we decided that we were not meant for each other. We parted with any bad feelings, there was no emotional garbage because we had not done mean things to each other .. you know the usual stupid drama.
> 
> Maybe dating in a low key way, going to coffee houses and just talking would be a very good idea. Though I prefer to walk and not sit all the time. Maybe then we would not have so many emotionally injured men/women in our society. Maybe we would not have so many abortions and babies born with no intact family. Maybe the incidence of STDs would not be an epidemic. Would that really be such a bad thing? I don't think so.


Personally this doesn't sound like dating at all. It sounds like a platonic friendship. Sex doesn't ruin relationships but a lack of romantic/sexual feelings about the person you are with sure can!


----------



## EleGirl

Emerald said:


> Oh dear.....Take the 5th
> 
> He wouldn't be so damn nosy if you were having sex with him. I am sure I'm much older than you. I've had plenty of LTR boyfriends & 2 husbands.
> 
> Sex with all of the above varied to first night to ...well you get the picture.
> 
> None of them asked the questions he is asking you. I think he sounds very insecure. He wants to see how he compares to your previous boyfriends. Heed this red flag.


I'm not sure that he would not be asking if they were having sex. There have been a lot of men here who say they were having sex with a woman for some time when they started to ask these questions. And depending on her answer, then decided that she was not what they wanted based on her history.


----------



## EleGirl

justonelife said:


> Personally this doesn't sound like dating at all. It sounds like a platonic friendship.


That's my point. Dating is a new thing. It's only been in since some time in the 1900's that men and women started to date. Before that it was like what my grandparents went through.




justonelife said:


> Sex doesn't ruin relationships but a lack of romantic/sexual feelings about the person you are with sure can!


This is true. What does that have to do with the a woman not wanting to jump into the sack with a guy before she is sure he's going to be a good choice?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

This thread is so weird to me... :scratchhead:

I think it was wrong for her to slap him. If I was him I'd probably be gone.

At the same time. Call me old fashioned, but I think 2 months is way too soon to be having sex.  If I was dating again and some guy pressured me into it, and didn't respect my wishes i'd be gone.

Then again I waited 4.5 years to have sex with my guy. And no it wasn't because I was LD. I'm as horny as a toad. I love my sex life, but good love is worth waiting for...

Now she wants to have sex with him, just so he won't leave her. That is the wrong reason to have sex, in my opinion.

Anyway. I think both parties messed up, and frankly I think both parties are a little too immature for a relationship right now. And I feel this won't work out in the long run, and they would be both better off breaking it off and taking a break from dating to work on themselves.


----------



## justonelife

EleGirl said:


> It used to be the norm to wait for marriage to have sex.


There's absolutely no point in debating what "used" to be the norm. First of all, none of us were there. Second of all, people also got married at 16 so they didn't have to wait very long, even if they did wait until marriage. It wasn't the "norm" for black people to marry white people, but that doesn't mean we should use that as a wonderful yardstick for today's culture.

This woman is 29 years old. If she wants to wait 3 dates or 3 years, that's perfectly within her rights. But the guy should also be able to decide that he wants a sexual relationship with the woman he is exclusively dating for months. That doesn't make him a jerk. Jeez.


----------



## chillymorn

EleGirl said:


> In my grandmother's generation, born in the late 1800's, most of the women married very young. My grandmother was 14 when she married. My grandfather as 19. They did not date.
> 
> Sure, there have always been people who had sex out of wedlock. Have I denied that? No.
> 
> The point is that men did not expect/demand it from every woman they saw as a potential mate. With the dating situation today.. it seems that a lot of men expect sex with just about any woman they see on about the 3rd time they are together.


hard to compair that time frame to today.

in that time frame lot of thing were excepted that arn't today.

husbands beat their woman and if they said no would rape them 

women couldn't vote, or work .

its not fair to compair. apple to ornges. 

its a different mind set today . and most people would rather go with the time than be stuck in the dark ages. maybe we shouln't use xray because we didn't need them in the 1800's


----------



## justonelife

EleGirl said:


> This is true. What does that have to do with the a woman not wanting to jump into the sack with a guy before she is sure he's going to be a good choice?


It has nothing to do with that. I've said that if she wants to wait until she's ready, that's perfectly fine and reasonable. I just don't like that this guy is being vilified for expressing sexual interest in his girlfriend of 2 months, which is perfectly within reason in today's culture.


----------



## Entropy3000

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I haven't read past this point in the thread yet, but I wanted to comment on this part. The bottom line is BOTH men and women have become too easy. The door SHOULD swing both ways here as well. I know as a man I cared very much about how many people my GFs slept with. But you know what? The women SHOULD care just as much. If they see a guy slept with a lot of women, then it is only fair and IMHO necessary to tell the guy to hit the road too. If more people thought this way, the world would be a better place.
> 
> I'm all in favor of hot and wild porn star type sex, but it should be reserved for LTRs and marriages only. Casual sex anywhere and anytime is caustic to everyone. It needs to be greatly tempered.


Agreed.


----------



## Emerald

EleGirl said:


> I'm not sure that he would not be asking if they were having sex. There have been a lot of men here who say they were having sex with a woman for some time when they started to ask these questions. And depending on her answer, then decided that she was not what they wanted based on her history.


IMHO in this situation, he is asking these questions NOW because she is not having sex with him. He is trying to figure her out. He wants to know why she is making him wait. He wants to know how long other dudes had to wait.

Very different from 2 people comparing sexual history.


----------



## Entropy3000

EleGirl said:


> I dated a guy for most of a year. We saw each other several times a week. Most of our dates were walks. We'd walk for hours and talk. I absolutely loved it. Sometimes we'd walk to the house of friends or family members and drop in for a visit. He did take me out once for dinner at a small local restaurants. Sometimes I'd cook a meal at my place.
> 
> There was no sex. He wanted to wait until he was sure.
> 
> Because we spent so much time together without the pressure of the usual trappings of DATING we got to really know each other. In the end we decided that we were not meant for each other. We parted with any bad feelings, there was no emotional garbage because we had not done mean things to each other .. you know the usual stupid drama.
> 
> Maybe dating in a low key way, going to coffee houses and just talking would be a very good idea. Though I prefer to walk and not sit all the time. Maybe then we would not have so many emotionally injured men/women in our society. Maybe we would not have so many abortions and babies born with no intact family. Maybe the incidence of STDs would not be an epidemic. Would that really be such a bad thing? I don't think so.


EleGirl, I think this is beautiful. I actually see all spending of time like this dating. People beat me up for that. But you hit my point. It is about getting to know the other person. Giving time to each other to see if you bond.

I love walks.


----------



## bandit.45

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Without more info from the OP, we have no idea if she is truthfully following the script people rail about where she has all her fun with the bad boys and then settles for the nice guy but curbs her sexuality greatly because he's a nice guy... OR ...she realizes that her previous dating methods were not working, that she realizes that she was treating herself with little respect and she decided that she wants to change herself for the better and make better decisions moving forward.
> 
> *I swear that there are too many jaded people on here trying to apply their personal experiences to ALL threads that pop up over here*...


HEY!!!  I resemble that remark.


----------



## Entropy3000

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Admittedly, I'm still up to this point only and don't know if anyone else responded to this yet...but this is pure, unadulterated bullsh!t. You may have personally witnessed this in your dating life or marriage, but I have never ran across this from women. Either I was lucky or - more likely - I knew pretty well which women were the ones to steer clear of and which ones were the good ones. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.
> 
> Also, food for thought. Maybe if you are the one that tends to be "friend zoned" and perceived to be the "stupid beta provider" by the women you are mixing with, the problem is actually YOU and not them. You are the problem because you are stupid enough to continue mixing with shallow and low life women.


I have seen this. It is basically a Madonna / Wh0re complex but with women.

In fact you see this on this forum all the time. There is the guy that stays at home watching the kids and the guys at the bar / club for excitement.


----------



## bandit.45

Entropy3000 said:


> I hear you and understand the spirit of this. But if she is a sexually experienced woman she is NOT the woman of my dreams if she does not get around to tearing his shirt off.
> 
> We are not talking about a virgin here. We are talking about a sexually experienced 29 y/o who used to go to bed with guys the first week. I applaud her wanting to change her life style. Indeed she can be a nun if she desires. BUT now deciding that this guy is so great they do not have sex?
> 
> I do not agree that the guy should be willing to wait in this case. I think he has every right to move on. IF she was crazy about him there would be intense sexual tension.
> 
> If she was so hot to bed these other guys why is she not with this guy. It is no longer the first week.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Don't get too c0cky just because I agree with you E.


----------



## samyeagar

One thing I do find interesting here is the whole...if he cared about her, he'd wait as long as she wanted. 

Well, if she cared about him, she'd sleep with him when he wanted.


----------



## bandit.45

Emerald said:


> Oh dear.....Take the 5th
> 
> He wouldn't be so damn nosy if you were having sex with him. I am sure I'm much older than you. I've had plenty of LTR boyfriends & 2 husbands.
> 
> Sex with all of the above varied to first night to ...well you get the picture.
> 
> None of them asked the questions he is asking you. *I think he sounds very insecure. He wants to see how he compares to your previous boyfriends. Heed this red flag*.


How is that a red flag?

Let me ask you... say you were back in the single dating life, and you met this guy who was everything you wanted in a mate (financially stable, employed, groomed, somewhat intelligent, funny, blah, blah) and he revealed to you early on that he had bedded many women within the first few dates of meeting them and that he was a bit of a Don Juan. 

Say then you tried to get him in the sack on, say, the fifth or sixth date, but he turned around and said "No. I don't want to sleep with you right now. I want to wait." 

How would you feel? Be honest. You wouldn't be worried about whether you stacked up to the women in his past? You're saying you would not feel at least a tinge of rejection? 

Is that being insecure? Sounds like being human to me.


----------



## Acorn

I wish the guy had simply asked the question he probably really wanted to ask: How long will I have to wait before we can discuss our sexual boundaries like adults? It's important to me and I don't want to get slapped again.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

karole said:


> I do know that in my parent's generation, girls dated younger and married much younger than they do now. It most likely wasn't the young gentlemen who were chaperoned that caused the problems - it was the ones the young ladies would sneak off to meet in the middle of the night that the parents never knew about. LOL. People have had sex out of wedlock since the beginning of time. It may be more widely acceptable and talked about more now, but it has always happened.


You're 100% correct. Infidelity, sex out of wedlock, abuse (insert any behavior) has always happened. The difference is in the acceptance and even promotion of the behavior. The more society accepts or promotes a behavior, the more it's going to occur. So yes, while I agree with you that sex out of wedlock has always occurred, I'd challenge you on the frequency and percentage of population doing it has also changed (increased) over time.

The two people I spoke about, my sister was 19 when she married her husband who was 21. My brother was 19 when he married his wife who was 18. I think part of the urge to marry young is in order to HAVE sex LOL. When you believe so firmly in no sex until marriage, you tend to get married earlier.

Now I've always tried to see the negatives in marrying young etc. but it's worked for them. And yet I married (after having sex) later to a woman who had a lot of sex before me and our marriage was a joke....So draw your own conclusions. To put it in perspective, they're both in their early 40's so we're not talking about "way back in the day" type of stuff. 

I think that the key for ANY relationship is for the 2 people to have the same values when it comes to sex. If they're both players and promiscuous, it should work. If they're both sexually active but more selective, it should work, if they're both virgins (as long as they're virgins by choice LOL and not natural selection) it should work. It's just when the promiscuous man wants a virgin of a wife where it's wrong. You should not expect standards of your spouse you were not willing to have of yourself (gender is unimportant to this)


----------



## EleGirl

Emerald said:


> IMHO in this situation, he is asking these questions NOW because she is not having sex with him. He is trying to figure her out. He wants to know why she is making him wait. He wants to know how long other dudes had to wait.
> 
> Very different from 2 people comparing sexual history.


I agree. She did not present her stance on the topic very well to start with. And now she's still not doing a good job of it from what she's said.

Some honest discussion early on was in order.

I think it's a learning experience. She has to decide what her own boundaries are. And then she has to come up with a way to explain her boundaries to a guy early on, in a way that makes sense and make him understand that this is not about her not being attracted to him or playing games with him. 

What I'm realizing is that with today's dating, men expect sex very early (3rd date keeps coming up). So a woman who does not want to bed hop needs to know her boundaries and needs to be able to communicate them well.


----------



## Emerald

bandit.45 said:


> How is that a red flag?
> 
> Let me ask you... say you were back in the single dating life, and you met this guy who was everything you wanted in a mate (financially stable, employed, groomed, somewhat intelligent, funny, blah, blah) and he revealed to you early on that he had bedded many women within the first few dates of meeting them and that he was a bit of a Don Juan.
> 
> Say then you tried to get him in the sack on, say, the fifth or sixth date, but he turned around and said "No. I don't want to sleep with you right now. I want to wait."
> 
> How would you feel? Be honest. You wouldn't be worried about whether you stacked up to the women in his past? You're saying you would not feel at least a tinge of rejection?
> 
> Is that being insecure? Sounds like being human to me.


Oh sorry....didn't catch where the OP revealed early on that she bedded many men.

Yes, you are right then! I would be upset if tried to have sex with a man that bedded many woman but didn't want to have sex with me. It would make me feel very "insecure" about my C-cups.

I felt that this man was acting insecure about himself by asking the questions about how fast she puts out. A secure man doesn't ask that. Insecurity FOR ME is a red flag in a relationship.


----------



## samyeagar

EleGirl said:


> I agree. She did not present her stance on the topic very well to start with. And now she's still not doing a good job of it from what she's said.
> 
> Some honest discussion early on was in order.
> 
> I think it's a learning experience. She has to decide what her own boundaries are. And then she has to come up with a way to explain her boundaries to a guy early on in a way that makes sense and make him understand that this is not about her not being attracted to him or playing games with him.
> 
> *What I'm realizing is that with today's dating, men expect sex very early (3rd date keeps coming up). So a woman who does not want to bed hop needs to know her boundaries and needs to be able to communicate them well.*


I think to a certain extent, this is the leveling of the playing field, and also the natural consequense of the societal shift towards pedestalizing women, and women expecting it. Case in point...the Coupon thread... This is also by and large the only way men have to combat women being sexual gatekeepers.


----------



## wilson

EleGirl said:


> I dated a guy for most of a year. We saw each other several times a week. Most of our dates were walks. We'd walk for hours and talk. I absolutely loved it. Sometimes we'd walk to the house of friends or family members and drop in for a visit. He did take me out once for dinner at a small local restaurants. Sometimes I'd cook a meal at my place.
> 
> There was no sex. He wanted to wait until he was sure.


The problem with this approach is that the guy will often end up in the friend-zone with no chance for anything more. Yes, it would be nice if it could work like this, but often the woman will not consider him in a romantic way if they first start out as friends. If a guy wants a sexual relationship, he generally needs to make overtures in that direction from the beginning.

It's similar to the situation in the OP. She doesn't crave sex with him. Rather, she is using sex as a manipulation tool to make the relationship last. She's now interested in sex because it seems like the right thing to do rather than she desires him so much that she can't wait. A big part of that is because he's a Nice Guy who didn't come on strong. Now she sees him as a companion, not as a sexual partner. The offer of sex is to ensure she doesn't lose him as a companion and not because she actual desires sex with him.

They both need to go their separate ways. Jane, you're afraid of losing what you have, but if you like this type of guy, there are plenty of them out there. But you have to ask yourself if you truly want a nice guy. If you don't crave sex with him after a couple of months, something is missing.


----------



## Entropy3000

EleGirl said:


> In my grandmother's generation, born in the late 1800's, most of the women married very young. My grandmother was 14 when she married. My grandfather as 19. They did not date.
> 
> Sure, there have always been people who had sex out of wedlock. Have I denied that? No.
> 
> The point is that men did not expect/demand it from every woman they saw as a potential mate. With the dating situation today.. *it seems that a lot of men expect sex with just about any woman they see on about the 3rd time they are together.*


Yes. And I find this more than a tad messed up. I have heard people say that the third date means sex. WTH? Like this is the ettiquette now.

This was part of the premise of the askmen article. That it is now expected. It has been devalued IMO.

---------

<sarcasm=true>
No woman owes me sex .... she owes it to herself. 
<sarcasm=false>


----------



## EleGirl

Emerald said:


> Oh sorry....didn't catch where the OP revealed early on that she bedded many men.


According to JaneDoe's posts, she did not reveal that she did not reveal the number or how soon she had sex with other men.

"talking about our pasts. I've made a point of steering away from this topic because mine is probabbly colorful to him"



Emerald said:


> Yes, you are right then! I would be upset if tried to have sex with a man that bedded many woman but didn't want to have sex with me. It would make me feel very "insecure" about my C-cups.
> 
> I felt that this man was acting insecure about himself by asking the questions about how fast she puts out. A secure man doesn't ask that. Insecurity FOR ME is a red flag in a relationship.


I think that a lot more comes into play other than how many other women he's had sex with and then him not wanting sex at that particular point with me.

The dynamics of every relationship are unique. Far too complex to dissect here on this forum. I could come up with reasonable scenarios in which it would not bother me in the least.


----------



## EleGirl

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes. And I find this more than a tad messed up. I have heard people say that the third date means sex. WTH? Like this is the ettiquette now.
> 
> This was part of the premise of the askmen article. *That it is now expected. It has been devalued IMO.*


I have been having trouble expressing this. And when I have this trouble I use too many words. You have hit on the head. This is what is brothering me. It's what I'm getting for this discussion.

I have thought out starting to date. I'm not a prude by any means. I would love to have a relationship with a man that included a wild sex life. I'm HD. I do not want to deal with this attitude.

The relationship means more than the sex. The sex is a very important part of a good relationship.


----------



## EleGirl

EleGirl said:


> I dated a guy for most of a year. We saw each other several times a week. Most of our dates were walks. We'd walk for hours and talk. I absolutely loved it. Sometimes we'd walk to the house of friends or family members and drop in for a visit. He did take me out once for dinner at a small local restaurants. Sometimes I'd cook a meal at my place.
> 
> 
> There was no sex. He wanted to wait until he was sure.





wilson said:


> The problem with this approach is that the guy will often end up in the friend-zone with no chance for anything more. Yes, it would be nice if it could work like this, but often the woman will not consider him in a romantic way if they first start out as friends. If a guy wants a sexual relationship, he generally needs to make overtures in that direction from the beginning.


Yep he ended up in the friend zone.. but only after months of dating like this . It was not until the last two weeks that he started to reveal some things that did not sit well with me. Btu he ended up in the friend zone not because we waited to have sex, but because I found out things about him that I would not deal with.

So sure, for some men it would be disturbing that they missed out on sex. After all it apparently does not matter if we turned out to be compatible, what mattered is whether or not the guy gets sex. That’s what it sounds like you are saying.


wilson said:


> It's similar to the situation in the OP. She doesn't crave sex with him. Rather, she is using sex as a manipulation tool to make the relationship last. She's now interested in sex because it seems like the right thing to do rather than she desires him so much that she can't wait. A big part of that is because he's a Nice Guy who didn't come on strong. Now she sees him as a companion, not as a sexual partner. The offer of sex is to ensure she doesn't lose him as a companion and not because she actual desires sex with him.


What is the same situation with the OP. Did I say that I did not carve sex? Did I say that I did not find him terribly attractive? 

There is nothing similar between the dating situation I described and the one the OP described.



wilson said:


> They both need to go their separate ways. Jane, you're afraid of losing what you have, but if you like this type of guy, there are plenty of them out there. But you have to ask yourself if you truly want a nice guy. If you don't crave sex with him after a couple of months, something is missing.


Holding off to have sex does not mean that she does not crave to have sex with him.


----------



## EleGirl

samyeagar said:


> I think to a certain extent, this is the leveling of the playing field, and also the natural consequense of the societal shift towards pedestalizing women, and women expecting it. Case in point...the Coupon thread...


The coupon thread... so using coupons on first dates is to knock a woman off an imaginary pedestal. Is that what you are saying?



samyeagar said:


> This is also by and large the only way men have to combat women being sexual gatekeepers.


So the goal is to force women into sex within the 3rd date to prevent them form "being the sexual gatekeepers"... meaning to prevent women, as individuals, to set boundaries for themselves such as a woman does not want to be a slvt?


----------



## ladybird

tom67 said:


> He sounds like a "nice guy" and she doesn't have the hots for him I get that.


 Just because she is making him wait, doesn't mean she doesn't have the "hots" for him... Who cares if they guy doesn't like waiting, then he can move the hell on!

Most men (not all) think the woman they are dating owes them sex after the 3rd date.


----------



## Entropy3000

EleGirl said:


> I have been having trouble expressing this. And when I have this trouble I use too many words. You have hit on the head. This is what is brothering me. It's what I'm getting for this discussion.
> 
> I have thought out starting to date. I'm not a prude by any means. I would love to have a relationship with a man that included a wild sex life. I'm HD. I do not want to deal with this attitude.
> 
> The relationship means more than the sex. The sex is a very important part of a good relationship.


Properly done it is an escalating dance of walks on the beach, getting to know each other, finding out you have similar values, making each other laugh, making each other cry, sliding from one instant just caring for the person and then the next wanting to make love with them. But how glorious it is to have clothes flying everywhere and just enjoying each other. Loving someone and being in love with someone. That is the really good sex. Sometimes gentle and sometimes ravaging sex. The best sex is when you are in the middle or just afterwards and you both laugh uncontrollably at how great, wild and wonderful it was. Then you fix the bed.

Yes, yes I remember sex that was not always like this and sure it was all fine. But at some point in my life I stopped wanting to just have sex. I wanted more. I wanted better sex. The pizza analogy is not so bad. Even cold pizza can be great sometimes. But a steady diet of cold pizza is really not what you want. It just does not feed the soul.

I think both men and women at some point need to feel special.


----------



## ladybird

And what if she wanted to wait until she found the one she wants to marry and make him wait until their wedding night. Is there something wrong with that also? 

Sex in my opinion is just given away to anybody. It is something that is no longer sacred to anyone anymore. 

Sex is just sex, you can get that from anyone. Sex with a connection, spark now that is something that is special.


----------



## OnTheRocks

I'd already have one foot out the door with the "I'm playing hard to get because you're so special" game, and the slap would be the last straw. He must be lacking in self respect and/or other options, or you wouldn't have seen him after that night.


----------



## samyeagar

EleGirl said:


> The coupon thread... so using coupons on first dates is to knock a woman off an imaginary pedestal. Is that what you are saying?


No. Not at all. That thread really demonstrated that many women take it as a persnal affront if the man does not wine and dine them the way they have been told they should be. That many women feel that they should start being put up on that pedistal from the very beginning.



> So the goal is to force women into sex within the 3rd date to prevent them form "being the sexual gatekeepers"... meaning to prevent women, as individuals, to set boundaries for themselves such as a woman does not want to be a slvt?


No. Not at all. There is no forcing involved. It is just simply that guys are not putting up with the behavior and are realizing that they do not have to wait if they don't want to. They are not beholden to these women.

Men have been villified on this very thread for wanting sex, and initiating sexual behavior. Just as a woman has a right to say no, the man has a right not to wait, and he should be applauded just as loudly as the woman who exercises her right.

Just as many women feel like he should wait if he really cares, the opposite can be said with just as much sincerity...she would put out if she really cares. If she chooses not to, that if fine, and I respect her. She should just not complain when the very natural consequense is that he moves on to someone else.


----------



## Unique Username

The new Dancing with the Stars cast has been announced.


----------



## krismimo

I would understand if she just "met" this guy. But she hasn't. And I don't agree with the you have to get to know someone for 1-2 years because that can be bunk too. Have you ever watched who the *Bleep did I marry?!.* How many of us did the right right thing and waited did the usual courting meet and greet the parents etc etc and dated someone and we were still betrayed, still back stabbed anyway? It's not just about time it is about the quality of the person. 

She has stated several times that he has been a complete gentleman the whole time. He is the man of her dreams, I get it she is trying to do the right thing and slow things down a bit but what she doesn't realize is how her actions is confusing and in some ways contradicting. (And she is not trying to do that). There is no bad guy here just a really convoluted communication blip up. 

He didn't force himself on her he said something she didn't like and she hit him. (Not Cool) and he wasn't being a brat, or a jerk he wanted to be intimate with his girlfriend of a few months. That is not a crime. So he might not gone about it the right way, but put down the lynch mob geeze. She also admitted that he has never pressured her in any way all he did was make one kinky suggestion, he probably figured well if sex is off the table maybe we could fool around or maybe do a little foreplay. All she had to do was so no or make some joke about giving him a bj in the car, problem solved.

So lets recap, she calls him that night apologizes, she calls him back apologizes the next day. And what does he do? Which no one even really touched on. He says " no problem it's ok.... this "villain" not only said no worries he met with her for coffee after she hit him, and asked her an few questions. He didn't break up with her, he didn't scream at her or cuss her out all he wanted to know was why? And you Want to know why? 

Because she hit him, and maybe I don't know...he wants to avoid that again he asked her a few questions (because this is his girlfriend not some booty call.) If that doesn't scream this guy cares about her and he doesn't just see her a piece of meat I don't know what does. Especially after doing what she did. That early on in a relationship (no one should be getting hit) I know how to hold my ground without putting my hands on someone there is a time and place for everything and she overreacted. Which brings me to the next point.

I can see why this guy would be confused, because in her past if some guy did the same exact thing that she was totally digging. And not only would he not be slapped but she more than likely would jump his bones in the car. And the "man of her dreams get's slapped in the face of a mere suggestion and according to her he has done everything right. Well.. HELL Yeah I would be confused. I would be more than confused I would be dumbfounded and honestly feeling a little betrayed. I get it she is trying to change her future and not make the same kind of choices, however it does not change how he might feel in the process of all this because this was not handled right from get go. 

Don't have sex with him not yet, talk to him because he deserves to know what is going on. Woman up tell him you are attracted to him but you are trying to change your past and you respect him and like him as well. Tell him your not perfect either and you overreacted in some ways and your figuring this whole thing out as you go. This is something new to you as well.

And depending how well the talk goes if he is highly receptive to everything and he understands where your coming from and only do this when your ready and if he sticks around, then and only then do you rock his world. 
You rock his world so hard that it was worth the wait and it makes all the other experiences you had look like mere foreplay compared to this. You know why? Because according to you he is everything you wanted in a person, relationships are a two way street. If he is up for it, and your willing and ready then make his head spin.


----------



## doubletrouble

I can't believe I just read through this whole thread, looking for the 7 posts from the OP. Seems people are widely spread on this topic (no pun intended although it just occurred to me... )

I've had ONS experriences and I've waited five years. Guess who I stuck it out with? The longer waits. To me, sex too soon cheapens the experience. Unless that's what you're into...

If you want an LTR with someone, good grief it's Long Term, so what's the damn rush? Take your pace, take the other person's pace into account, commuinicate openly and honestly, and work it out from there. And let it grow naturally (no pun intended). 

I'm not kidding, I just see these damn puns, sorry. 

If you're in it for the long run, both of you, then let it develop. You can't make a flower bloom until the right time, so it is with all thing natural, including sex. Let it be a natural, beautiful, flowing thing for you as a couple. That's when sex is the BEST, the most fun, and most fulfilling, in my experience.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

chillymorn said:


> there is not such beast as an unbiased opinion. the only thing most people have is past/Life experiances.
> 
> your correct that she might have decided to just slow things down because in the past her relationships have not panned out. but also impossible to say weather it was because she slept with her suiters too soon or they just decided that for whatever reason it just wasn't working out.
> 
> 
> you can put whatever spin on it as you like the bottom line is as with all relationships theres a risk of it not working out and to find out you have to be vulerable to some degree.
> 
> 
> lets see ....say you dated someone and eveything was great for two years soulmate kinda great. then you get married and you find out he has a micro penis or a gigantic penis either way sex is bascialy impossible. that would be a bummer for sure. or the man finds out she has been raped and never plans on having sex because she is to tramutised again bummer.
> 
> 
> my personal opinion is that love dose not conqure all. you need some compatibility mixed with love to be sucessfull. in the areas that are important to the people in the relationship.


I agree with you on the idea that there is always risk of a relationship not working out. But the examples you are providing about the mega-dong or the mini-stick being incompatible for a wife since sex before marriage was taboo in the hypothetical relationship is moot. The OP never stated that she was saving herself for marriage - only that she wanted to make sure that she let the relationship unfold in the "right way". In her mind, the right way was to take things slower and not rush into sex like she did in prior relationships (or simply hookups???). There are always consequences to the decisions we make, so as long as the OP is content to stick to her principles about when she is ready for sex in a relationship then that's her choice. The BF has every bit as much right to feel however he wants to given what he knows about the OP and/or what he can puzzle out given her reactions. He has every right to walk if he feels he's getting the shaft. That's his prerogative. 

Where most guys (girls) go wrong - those who happen to be on the short end of the nice guy/bad boy dichotomy that plays out over here - compromises on his/her ideals and doesn't stay true to their beliefs and values. If the BF feels like he got screwed over, and that he is worried about the OP not ever being attracted to him, then he needs to figure this out on his own and decide if he should bolt or not.


----------



## oregonmom

I don't know if this applies to the OP or not, but I have been in a dating relationship where I didn't want to give it up even though I had previously with others. I guess I was trying to control in a way, but I was trying to change myself for the better and protect myself.

I really liked him. We were both on the golf team in college. I knew he was a player. Lots of our mutual friends said he was just trying to bed me. Maybe, maybe not. I was in IC for my previous issues at the time, was gaining respect for myself as not an object and the way it seemed to me, the only way I knew he was not also treating me as an object was to not have sex with him. We played lots of golf, went to parties, concerts, study hall together, lots of free or dutch things so I was not using him. He would invite me over for dinner sometimes, he was an excellent cook (the way to a young college girls heart lol). I also knew he was looking at other options. Until he was willing to be in an exclusive relationship with me tho, I wasn't going to sleep with him. I told him so, he viewed it as part of the challenge I think. He was so awesome, he could change my mind 

Long story short, he left a party we were at with another girl. Good for him. I was clear with him, and he made it clear that night he wasn't looking for an exclusive relationship. So no matter what our compatibility level was on other things, it was not meant to be. So be it. I've never held any ill will towards him. I met my H soon after that, told him the same things, and my H never pressured me. Once we were "official" I slept with him soon after. I wanted security before I gave it up, and the right man understood that and respected it. I have never used sex to control my H, for 14 years now, so I don't believe I was trying to control him then either, just being true to myself.

There is no harm in being open and honest about your reasoning on not having sex. Either he respects it, or he doesn't. That doesn't make either of you wrong or right, just different. There is no ill will needed, just understanding that you may not be compatible. What matters is that you respect yourself in your decision making. You can't go wrong with that.


----------



## EleGirl

ladybird said:


> And what if she wanted to wait until she found the one she wants to marry and make him wait until their wedding night. Is there something wrong with that also?
> 
> Sex in my opinion is just given away to anybody. It is something that is no longer sacred to anyone anymore.
> 
> Sex is just sex, you can get that from anyone. Sex with a connection, spark now that is something that is special.


If you want to wait until the wedding night, then you look for someone with the same values, or how respects your boundaries.

This is an important point of the thread. Neither of them have communicated very well on this topic. It sounds like they have different values.


----------



## Forever Changed

ntamph said:


> So, if I have a history of being treated badly by women and I meet the woman of my dreams I make a promise to myself that our dates won't be anything more than coffee at a cafe for months or years because I want to really get to know her?
> 
> If a woman posted something like this women would be telling her to dump that cheap piece of **** no good loser because you deserve better.


The irony is just sickening.


----------



## samyeagar

Forever Changed said:


> The irony is just sickening.


See the coupon thread for just this point...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

samyeagar said:


> See the coupon thread for just this point...


Note that not all women agreed that using a coupon on the first date is a problem.

Women not all alike, just as men are not all alike.


----------



## samyeagar

EleGirl said:


> Note that not all women agreed that using a coupon on the first date is a problem.
> 
> Women not all alike, just as men are not all alike.


You're right of course. Not all women agreed, but enough did to make a reasonable generalization. That if you're a guy, you'd better not appear cheap because chances are better that the woman will see it as a bad thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

samyeagar said:


> You're right of course. Not all women agreed, but enough did to make a reasonable generalization. That if you're a guy, you'd better not appear cheap because chances are better that the woman will see it as a bad thing.


Well there about 3 billion women in the world. A man does need a way to narrow it all down to one woman. This might be a good way.

If a guy buys me lunch and pays for it, it's none of my business how he pays for it.

IMO, using coupons is not cheap. It's frugal. There is a huge difference between cheap and frugal.


----------



## Forever Changed

Let's not go there again shall we?


----------



## Theseus

EleGirl said:


> Asking a woman for a blow job in the parking lot is not showing that you are sexually attracted to her. It shows that you are horny.



Is there something wrong with a man (or woman) being horny?


----------



## Forever Changed

Only wrong when the man shows it or makes it known.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

*Just don't lie about it*...never advisable....show a little vulnerability, humanness......if you really enjoy this man & want to do right by him...and yourself....show him Genuineness ..this is where connection is....if you've changed your ways and regret anything you've done...open up and explain ...the why's, the possible hurt of your past...why he is different... do this "heart to heart"...

If he is a good man...a understanding man... he will take everything you have to say into consideration, he may have more questions...But always...

A clear conscience is a beautiful thing... and it will go a long long way in Life..and Love.


----------



## krismimo

Theseus said:


> Is there something wrong with a man (or woman) being horny?


EXACTLY!!! Because he likes her and wants to be intimate with his girlfriend?....Honestly it is because it's a BJ I swear it is. And he didn't take anything out I don't why people keep saying that. FOR SHAME for asking for BJ after a few months of dating...SLAP!! And Down to the Pitts of hell you go! Man the things I pulled (I should have been arrested If I got caught)


----------



## bandit.45

krismimo said:


> EXACTLY!!! Because he likes her and wants to be intimate with his girlfriend?....Honestly it is because it's a BJ I swear it is. And he didn't take anything out I don't why people keep saying that. FOR SHAME for asking for BJ after a few months of dating...SLAP!! And Down to the Pitts of hell you go! Man the things I pulled (I should have been arrested If I got caught)


If I were him, right after she slapped me I would have just looked at her with a nonchalant stare and said "Okay....you lay back and I'll go down on you...."


----------



## WorkingOnMe

So is the OP gone?


----------



## Forever Changed

I can't wait to hear about the outcome of 'Friday'.


----------



## krismimo

bandit.45 said:


> If I were him, right after she slapped me I would have just looked at her with a nonchalant stare and said "Okay....you lay back and I'll go down on you...."


HAHHAHAHAHHAH You beat me to it!! I was just going to say that!!


----------



## Forever Changed

Yes, but he would have dug himself a deeper hole!

Wake up people!


----------



## bandit.45

Forever Changed said:


> Yes, but he would have dug himself a deeper hole!
> 
> Wake up people!


Yeah but at least she would have knownb he was willing to get her off first. That has to count for something.


----------



## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> So is the OP gone?


I bet she's over at his place banging his brains out.


----------



## EleGirl

Theseus said:


> Is there something wrong with a man (or woman) being horny?


Of course there is nothing wrong with a person being horny.

But let's put things in perspective.

They have never had sex. They have hardly discussed it. 

He wanted to go up to her place, she said no because she did not want sex to happen. Then out in the car he asked for a bj.. in the parking lot, as their first sexual encounter.

He did not ask to make love to her for their mutual please, he has her to give him a bj.


----------



## Forever Changed

I hope it works out well for them. I pray that we don't see them around these parts again!

Good luck Jane and thinking of you boyfriend!


----------



## krismimo

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah but at least she would have knownb he was willing to get her off first. That has to count for something.


See bandit you get it! Who said chivalry is dead??


----------



## Caribbean Man

There's an old English saying, I'm not sure it's applicable here, but it goes something like this

_" The third time someone tries to put a saddle on you, you should admit you're a horse."_

...and at least do something about it.


----------



## Truthseeker1

JaneDoe and her BF should have to read this thread out loud to each other - neither will want sex or a relationship ever again - problem solved!


----------



## ntamph

I wish Jane and her boyfriend the best.

Jane: You are not worthless and deserve to be treated like gold. Just be honest with your boyfriend and both of you work on your communication skills. Make an effort for the relationship. And love each other as much as you can.


----------



## Kobo

The justification and excuse making for violence against men in this thread is surprising but really shouldn't be anymore as its been one of the constant themes on this site. The OP has come back 3 times saying he wasn't being forceful but people continue dancing around the issue. 

OP, you are unstable and probably shouldn't be in a romantic relationship until you determine what you want in a guy and have the ability to communicate that effectively to your next partner. I think you've poisoned the well on this one.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Entropy3000 said:


> Properly done it is an escalating dance of walks on the beach, getting to know each other, finding out you have similar values, making each other laugh, making each other cry, sliding from one instant just caring for the person and then the next wanting to make love with them. But how glorious it is to have clothes flying everywhere and just enjoying each other. Loving someone and being in love with someone. That is the really good sex. Sometimes gentle and sometimes ravaging sex. The best sex is when you are in the middle or just afterwards and you both laugh uncontrollably at how great, wild and wonderful it was. Then you fix the bed.
> 
> Yes, yes I remember sex that was not always like this and sure it was all fine. But at some point in my life I stopped wanting to just have sex. I wanted more. I wanted better sex. The pizza analogy is not so bad. Even cold pizza can be great sometimes. But a steady diet of cold pizza is really not what you want. It just does not feed the soul.
> 
> I think both men and women at some point need to feel special.


Can this be Gold Plated somewhere?

The nail on the head in one perfect text. :smthumbup:

This is how joyful, real and alive it should be, and can be.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

doubletrouble said:


> I can't believe I just read through this whole thread, looking for the 7 posts from the OP. Seems people are widely spread on this topic (no pun intended although it just occurred to me... )
> 
> I've had ONS experriences and I've waited five years. Guess who I stuck it out with? The longer waits. To me, sex too soon cheapens the experience. Unless that's what you're into...
> 
> If you want an LTR with someone, good grief it's Long Term, so what's the damn rush? Take your pace, take the other person's pace into account, commuinicate openly and honestly, and work it out from there. And let it grow naturally (no pun intended).
> 
> I'm not kidding, I just see these damn puns, sorry.
> 
> If you're in it for the long run, both of you, then let it develop. You can't make a flower bloom until the right time, so it is with all thing natural, including sex. Let it be a natural, beautiful, flowing thing for you as a couple. That's when sex is the BEST, the most fun, and most fulfilling, in my experience.


Yes, good points. I think nobody will deny her the right to better her proceedings in order to get the LTR she aims for.

But she fooled the guy, and needs to communicate with him. If she really values a LTR, she needs to take the chance he runs, because if he is crazy about her, he will accept her story, her apologies and give the relation some more time.

What I wonder, you seem to be or have been in the same boat as her, did you make a progression from ONS to 5 years waiting?! That sounds a little extreme. 

Or did or do you have this variation theoretical still in your life as a matter of opinion depending on who the guy is?! Which seems also a bit extreme.


----------



## john_lord_b3

krismimo said:


> I would understand if she just "met" this guy. But she hasn't. And I don't agree with the you have to get to know someone for 1-2 years because that can be bunk too. Have you ever watched who the *Bleep did I marry?!.* How many of us did the right right thing and waited did the usual courting meet and greet the parents etc etc and dated someone and we were still betrayed, still back stabbed anyway? It's not just about time it is about the quality of the person.
> 
> She has stated several times that he has been a complete gentleman the whole time. He is the man of her dreams, I get it she is trying to do the right thing and slow things down a bit but what she doesn't realize is how her actions is confusing and in some ways contradicting. (And she is not trying to do that). There is no bad guy here just a really convoluted communication blip up.
> 
> He didn't force himself on her he said something she didn't like and she hit him. (Not Cool) and he wasn't being a brat, or a jerk he wanted to be intimate with his girlfriend of a few months. That is not a crime. So he might not gone about it the right way, but put down the lynch mob geeze. She also admitted that he has never pressured her in any way all he did was make one kinky suggestion, he probably figured well if sex is off the table maybe we could fool around or maybe do a little foreplay. All she had to do was so no or make some joke about giving him a bj in the car, problem solved.
> 
> So lets recap, she calls him that night apologizes, she calls him back apologizes the next day. And what does he do? Which no one even really touched on. He says " no problem it's ok.... this "villain" not only said no worries he met with her for coffee after she hit him, and asked her an few questions. He didn't break up with her, he didn't scream at her or cuss her out all he wanted to know was why? And you Want to know why?
> 
> Because she hit him, and maybe I don't know...he wants to avoid that again he asked her a few questions (because this is his girlfriend not some booty call.) If that doesn't scream this guy cares about her and he doesn't just see her a piece of meat I don't know what does. Especially after doing what she did. That early on in a relationship (no one should be getting hit) I know how to hold my ground without putting my hands on someone there is a time and place for everything and she overreacted. Which brings me to the next point.
> 
> I can see why this guy would be confused, because in her past if some guy did the same exact thing that she was totally digging. And not only would he not be slapped but she more than likely would jump his bones in the car. And the "man of her dreams get's slapped in the face of a mere suggestion and according to her he has done everything right. Well.. HELL Yeah I would be confused. I would be more than confused I would be dumbfounded and honestly feeling a little betrayed. I get it she is trying to change her future and not make the same kind of choices, however it does not change how he might feel in the process of all this because this was not handled right from get go.
> 
> Don't have sex with him not yet, talk to him because he deserves to know what is going on. *Woman up tell him you are attracted to him* but you are trying to change your past and you respect him and like him as well. Tell him your not perfect either and you overreacted in some ways and your figuring this whole thing out as you go. This is something new to you as well.
> 
> And depending how well the talk goes if he is highly receptive to everything and he understands where your coming from and only do this when your ready and if he sticks around, then and only then do you rock his world.
> You rock his world so hard that it was worth the wait and it makes all the other experiences you had look like mere foreplay compared to this. You know why? Because according to you he is everything you wanted in a person, relationships are a two way street. If he is up for it, and your willing and ready then make his head spin.


:iagree:
This is an all-around good advice, except for the bolded parts, because I am yet to hear from the OP that she is _sexually_ attracted to her boyfriend, only to his personality. If she already did, please pardon my oversight and direct me to the #post where she said that she is also sexually attracted to him.


----------



## john_lord_b3

ntamph said:


> I wish Jane and her boyfriend the best.
> 
> Jane: You are not worthless and deserve to be treated like gold. Just be honest with your boyfriend and both of you work on your communication skills. Make an effort for the relationship. And love each other as much as you can.


:iagree: ntamph, I am surprised you said this. This is a proof that you don't hate women. :smthumbup:


----------



## Forever Changed

None of us hate women, John.


----------



## john_lord_b3

Forever Changed said:


> None of us hate women, John.


:smthumbup::iagree: Amein!


----------



## Fozzy

I've been following this thread. ALL DAY.

I'm exhausted.


----------



## bandit.45

Forever Changed said:


> None of us hate women, John.


I hate a very few specific women. Most of them politicians.


----------



## bandit.45

ntamph said:


> I wish Jane and her boyfriend the best.
> 
> Jane: You are not worthless and deserve to be treated like gold. Just be honest with your boyfriend and both of you work on your communication skills. Make an effort for the relationship. And love each other as much as you can.


But, again, Jane needs to be honest with herself: if she is only marginally sexually attracted to John, if she is not lusting after him and wanting to tear his clothes off (whether she goes through with it in the near future or not) then she needs to reevaluate whether or not she is truly compatible with him on ALL levels. If she is not, she needs to be merciful and let him go, and not damn him to a sexually unfulfilling future with her. 

I really hope to god she really does have the hots for him, and is not just planning on giving him pity sex until she hooks him and gets him to buy the ring. I'd hate to see John check back here in five years complaining about how the sex was hot before they married and has dwindled to two times a month now that they have been hitched for four years years and have a kid.


----------



## MrK

bandit.45 said:


> But, again, Jane needs to be honest with herself: if she is only marginally sexually attracted to John, if she is not lusting after him and wanting to tear his clothes off (whether she goes through with it in the near future or not) then she needs to reevaluate whether or not she is truly compatible with him on ALL levels. If she is not, she needs to be merciful and let him go, and not damn him to a sexually unfulfilling future with her.
> 
> I really hope to god she really does have the hots for him, and is not just planning on giving him pity sex until she hooks him and gets him to buy the ring. I'd hate to see John check back here in five years complaining about how the sex was hot before they married and has dwindled to two times a month now that they have been hitched for four years years and have a kid.


I'm going to print this out and save it for when I get my time travel machine perfected. I will go back and give it to my wife before we married.


----------



## Starstarfish

I'm curious for everyone proposing that the third date is the "ticket" to when sex should be happening. 

When you date a woman who indeed followed the "third date" rule, do you hold that against her? Do you feel that was "too soon" and to compensate you'll expect it on the second date or even the first date to feel she "wants you" more than the last guy? 

Because apparently, when you choose to have sex isn't just about the current guy you are dating, or how hot he is, or whether or not you are a dessicated husk who doesn't want sex or a "gatekeeper", but also you need to calculate the risk that if things don't work out, the next guy will expect sex based on when this guy got sex. 

Which, if things don't work out, you'll need to start having sex before you even go out on dates, so no one feels "screwed over."


----------



## ntamph

Starstarfish said:


> I'm curious for everyone proposing that the third date is the "ticket" to when sex should be happening.
> 
> When you date a woman who indeed followed the "third date" rule, do you hold that against her? Do you feel that was "too soon" and to compensate you'll expect it on the second date or even the first date to feel she "wants you" more than the last guy?
> 
> Because apparently, when you choose to have sex isn't just about the current guy you are dating, or how hot he is, or whether or not you are a dessicated husk who doesn't want sex or a "gatekeeper", but also you need to calculate the risk that if things don't work out, the next guy will expect sex based on when this guy got sex.
> 
> Which, if things don't work out, you'll need to start having sex before you even go out on dates, so no one feels "screwed over."


I agree this is a little silly.


----------



## SadSamIAm

ladybird said:


> Just because she is making him wait, doesn't mean she doesn't have the "hots" for him... Who cares if they guy doesn't like waiting, then he can move the hell on!
> 
> Most men (not all) think the woman they are dating owes them sex after the 3rd date.


It is not about anybody owing sex.

Most men, after the 3rd date, want the woman to be so into them, that they want to have sex with them.


----------



## SadSamIAm

EleGirl said:


> Of course there is nothing wrong with a person being horny.
> 
> But let's put things in perspective.
> 
> They have never had sex. They have hardly discussed it.
> 
> He wanted to go up to her place, she said no because she did not want sex to happen. Then out in the car he asked for a bj.. in the parking lot, as their first sexual encounter.
> 
> He did not ask to make love to her for their mutual please, he has her to give him a bj.


He did ask her. He asked to come up to her place. For most guys, that means that he is wanting to pleasure her. It was only after being turned down that he asked for the bj.

My guess is that there was some heavy petting/necking going on in the car. Probably got a little hot and he asked to come up. When she said no, he asked because they had already gotten into it.

I very much doubt that there was no physical contact at all. That they pulled up and he asked for a bj out of the blue.


----------



## Cosmos

Starstarfish said:


> I'm curious for everyone proposing that the third date is the "ticket" to when sex should be happening.
> 
> When you date a woman who indeed followed the "third date" rule, do you hold that against her? Do you feel that was "too soon" and to compensate you'll expect it on the second date or even the first date to feel she "wants you" more than the last guy?
> 
> Because apparently, when you choose to have sex isn't just about the current guy you are dating, or how hot he is, or whether or not you are a dessicated husk who doesn't want sex or a "gatekeeper", but also you need to calculate the risk that if things don't work out, the next guy will expect sex based on when this guy got sex.
> 
> Which, if things don't work out, you'll need to start having sex before you even go out on dates, so no one feels "screwed over."


Well said, Starfish.

Even in same sex friendships, we don't 'share all' (if we're sensible) with somebody we have only met on a handful of occasions. We want to get to know them and learn if they are trustworthy etc before sharing too much information with them, and I can't imagine wanting to share something as personal as my body with someone I hardly know - no matter how attracted I might be. 

When it comes to my personal wellbeing, I am most certainly ruled by my brain rather than my hormones. Had I had sex with every man I dated and / or was attracted to, my numbers would be astronomically high!


----------



## chillymorn

Starstarfish said:


> I'm curious for everyone proposing that the third date is the "ticket" to when sex should be happening.
> 
> When you date a woman who indeed followed the "third date" rule, do you hold that against her? Do you feel that was "too soon" and to compensate you'll expect it on the second date or even the first date to feel she "wants you" more than the last guy?
> 
> Because apparently, when you choose to have sex isn't just about the current guy you are dating, or how hot he is, or whether or not you are a dessicated husk who doesn't want sex or a "gatekeeper", but also you need to calculate the risk that if things don't work out, the next guy will expect sex based on when this guy got sex.
> 
> Which, if things don't work out, you'll need to start having sex before you even go out on dates, so no one feels "screwed over."


I don't have a spacific time or date when it has to happen. But I think after a while if you think things are going good with the relationship then it should be on the plate. the next level relationship wise. If you feel your at that stage and she dosen't then its a waiting game. Hes ready but shes not. Ok most guys can understand that but eventually if things don't start feeling equal desire/attraction wise the guy or at least myself would start being skepical that this is just stringing along and doubts about true attraction and desire start to surface. at some point the man will say to himself this anit the woman for me.

most people men and woman alike eed to feel like the person their dating has some desire /attraction STRONG desrie/attraction if the spark isn't there the were wasting our time and on to somebody that has that desire instead of wasting time on someone who is still on the fence about taking the relationship to the next level.


just as most women want a man that can provide financial security and protect her . Most men want a woman that truly wants to keep her man saitiated sexually. 

as its been discussed before its different with ever relationship and the people in the relationship.


----------



## samyeagar

Thats the thing that gets me about this thread...the apparent double standard...

It's ok for women to hold back having sex, even if she really wants to have it, to satisfy her own need for reassurance that the guy is really into her. It is her right to do so, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

It appears that it's NOT ok for a guy to want sex to satisfy his need for reassurance that the woman is really into him. It's his right to do so, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

The natural consequence of this is that it is quite possible that the couple will not stay together. To blame the guy for not staying in a relationship where his needs are not being met is ludicrous, but too often the scenarion plays out...he's not meeting your emotional needs, how dare he be so insensitive...dump the guy and move on, he's wanting sex, how dare he be so demanding, dump the guy and move on...


----------



## SadSamIAm

Mavash. said:


> And this can be accomplished without having sex. By the 3rd date with my husband I did want to tear his clothes off but I resisted because yes it was too soon. But he KNEW I wanted him. The chemistry was there and he saw it.


I had the same experiences. It has been 30 years since I 'dated', but with every girl, it was pretty obvious.

There were a few that were horny and wanted sex just like I did.

There were a few that we made out, but it was obvious there wasn't much of a spark.

The best ones were the ones where we made out, and it was very difficult to not go further, because we were so into each other. These ones I pursued. And it didn't matter if we had sex or not. It was because we had a connection. There was something there. Only happened a few times, and the last one is the one I am married to now.

From the OP's description, I think that they fall into the 'There were a few that we made out, but it was obvious there wasn't much of a spark.' category. She 'likes' him because he is a good guy and a better guy than what she is normally with. Not because she is really into him sexually and he is sensing this.

My hope is that the OP continues looking and finds the great guy that she also can't keep her hands off of.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

samyeagar said:


> Thats the thing that gets me about this thread...the apparent double standard...
> 
> It's ok for women to hold back having sex, even if she really wants to have it, to satisfy her own need for reassurance that the guy is really into her. It is her right to do so, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
> 
> It appears that it's NOT ok for a guy to want sex to satisfy his need for reassurance that the woman is really into him. It's his right to do so, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
> 
> The natural consequence of this is that it is quite possible that the couple will not stay together. To blame the guy for not staying in a relationship where his needs are not being met is ludicrous, but too often the scenarion plays out...he's not meeting your emotional needs, how dare he be so insensitive...dump the guy and move on, he's wanting sex, how dare he be so demanding, dump the guy and move on...


*I feel communication is key*... just cause a girl may want to hold off on going "ALL THE WAY" (I consider that intercourse) until she feels he is in love with her, cares about her as a person, someone he sees himself with for the long haul/ commitment in place... I would find reasonable as as "good" man...

But he also has the right to express how HE feels as well... and hopefully they can find *understanding* for the needs & satisfaction of both...with the emotional connection growing as well... 

I think it is wholly ridiculous for her to SLAP him... unless he was trying to rape her...I haven't read this whole thread so not really sure what all went down. 

If I was a man, I wouldn't want to be with a Prude or low driver, I'd dump her real quick.. but I also wouldn't want to be with a girl who does everyone...and as a woman, I feel the same in regards to men.


----------



## samyeagar

SimplyAmorous said:


> *I feel communication is key*... just cause a girl may want to hold off on going "ALL THE WAY" (I consider that intercourse) until she feels he is in love with her, cares about her as a person, someone he sees himself with for the long haul/ commitment in place... I would find reasonable as as "good" man...
> 
> But he also has the right to express how HE feels as well... and hopefully they can find *understanding* for the needs & satisfaction of both...with the emotional connection growing as well...
> 
> I think it is wholly ridiculous for her to SLAP him... unless he was trying to rape her...I haven't read this whole thread so not really sure what all went down.
> 
> If I was a man, I wouldn't want to be with a Prude or low driver, I'd dump her real quick.. but I also wouldn't want to be with a girl who does everyone...and as a woman, I feel the same in regards to men.


And finally someone said it...communication is the key! I do stand by my feeling that there is a general double standard on this issue, and a double standard that usually favors the woman.

If both partners can get on the same page and realize that neither side is right or wrong, that both are equally valid in how they feel, the LTR can start to move forward...to get that to happen...COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY!


----------



## john_lord_b3

SimplyAmorous said:


> *I feel communication is key*... just cause a girl may want to hold off on going "ALL THE WAY" (I consider that intercourse) until she feels he is in love with her, cares about her as a person, someone he sees himself with for the long haul/ commitment in place... I would find reasonable as as "good" man...
> 
> But he also has the right to express how HE feels as well... and hopefully they can find *understanding* for the needs & satisfaction of both...with the emotional connection growing as well...
> 
> I think it is wholly ridiculous for her to SLAP him... unless he was trying to rape her...I haven't read this whole thread so not really sure what all went down.
> 
> If I was a man, I wouldn't want to be with a Prude or low driver, I'd dump her real quick.. but I also wouldn't want to be with a girl who does everyone...and as a woman, I feel the same in regards to men.


:iagree:

Yes, this is fair for both sides, communicating our hopes and expectations in the best possible way. But I am sure many young women and men need the guidance on how to express the expectations in a way that is understandable to the other party.


----------



## Starstarfish

> I do stand by my feeling that there is a general double standard on this issue, and a double standard that usually favors the woman.


Which is the other side of the general sexual double standard. On one hand, the desire is for women to show how much they are "into" the man they are dating by sleeping with them. But at the same token, many men here on this thread admit themselves, they'll look down on a woman who wasn't in a LTR and had sex. And further, that once they establish their "sex time pattern" they can't change their direction without future potential partners being "screwed over" about how quickly they get sex. 

That's kind of a risky proposition, isn't it? That after a certain number of dates, you are supposed to know if its worth every other man you date in the future judging you by how quickly you slept with this guy? 

I mean, if future dates/girlfriends demanded receipts for how much you spent on all past girlfriends to know if they were "getting screwed over" would you be more or less conservative in where you went and what you did? Where would -you- want to set the bar?


----------



## that_girl

For a long time in my life, I didn't sleep with men right away.

Some, it took months (like 9 months with a man I ended up dating for 3 years, almost marrying, then saw some deal-breakers...)

Others, it was weeks.

Others was just about sex. I saw no future...but was horny. Safe sex, guys 

With my husband, I would have done him on the first night. I was that attracted to him, even though I didn't even know him. I was also 31 at at the time and didn't give an eff what people thought of me or my choices. 1st date, 10th date, I didn't care. Slvt? Prude? Who cared-- I knew myself. And I wanted him.

It was HE who said no. Said he wanted to wait....later on he told me he knew I was something "good" and if he'd have had sex with me on that first night, we'd not have become anything more than love buddies...

My point is that every relationship is different. There is no protocol that you have to follow with everybody. I learned my body is MY BODY. I can have sex or not. If the person doesn't like that, they can go. I'm fine with that. I am not here strictly for another being's pleasure. I can choose. And with some people, sex too soon would have been a bad choice...because they meant something to me.

Same goes with WITHIN a relationship. I will never again have sex JUST BECAUSE we've already had sex. My body is precious. I've learned that my mental and emotional health is tied to my sexuality. I no longer want empty sex. I want meaningful, connected, beautiful love making. An exchange of energy. My choice. And if in a relationship I am feeling disconnected, I will say so...and sex will not continue until things can be figured out--- or not. I want to share my body with someone and love their body. Without that, it's just sex, and I can do myself just fine. I won't be used again. Nor will I use someone.

I swear, one thing I've learned, when sex fills up the quiet, words usually stop. The people whom I waited to have sex with (for however long), I was closer to. Wherever in the timeframe of the relationship I had sex with someone, that was were our emotional connection and verbal communication was stunted. It froze there. Instead of staying up late and talking, enjoying each other and kissing, etc...we were in bed. Then asleep.

Do what feels right TO YOU. If the person can't handle it, they aren't interested in you as a person...they just want your vagina. So...let them find another vagina.

It's also my belief that no one needs to know when you slept with others. WTF? What business is that of theirs? I mean, if we're going to compare, then let's compare everything. How I felt about myself with sleeping with them at that time. How they made me feel. How I felt about them. My life at that time. The age I was, the factors surrounding the situation. Come on. Anyone who gets like this about my past is NOT someone for me. I have never judged someone's behavior towards me by comparing it to the past. That's just silly. We are not stagnant beings. We are constantly changing and growing and learning about life and Love. How dare someone tell ME that I have to have sex with THEM just because I had sex with someone sooner than with him. Holy crap. There's the door. I am not just a body. I don't date for company (I have friends). I just let it flow. But i guess it weeds out the people who just want sex. 

Not to say sex shouldn't be a topic of conversation within the first few dates. That's important. But that doesn't mean it has to happen until you're ready. Our bodies sense things our minds and hearts don't. If you're with someone for a while and still hesitant about having sex with them, you need to look at that. Your body is trying to tell you something.

Anyone who makes you question what you think is right...and makes you feel pressured to do something you don't want to do, just isn't the right one for you. No harm done.

Just my 2cents.


----------



## samyeagar

that_girl said:


> For a long time in my life, I didn't sleep with men right away.
> 
> Some, it took months (like 9 months with a man I ended up dating for 3 years, almost marrying, then saw some deal-breakers...)
> 
> Others, it was weeks.
> 
> Others was just about sex. I saw no future...but was horny. Safe sex, guys
> 
> With my husband, I would have done him on the first night. I was that attracted to him, even though I didn't even know him. I was also 31 at at the time and didn't give an eff what people thought of me or my choices. 1st date, 10th date, I didn't care. Slvt? Prude? Who cared-- I knew myself. And I wanted him.
> 
> It was HE who said no. Said he wanted to wait....later on he told me he knew I was something "good" and if he'd have had sex with me on that first night, we'd not have become anything more than love buddies...
> 
> My point is that every relationship is different. There is no protocol that you have to follow with everybody. I learned my body is MY BODY. I can have sex or not. If the person doesn't like that, they can go. I'm fine with that. I am not here strictly for another being's pleasure. I can choose. And with some people, sex too soon would have been a bad choice...because they meant something to me.
> 
> Same goes with WITHIN a relationship. I will never again have sex JUST BECAUSE we've already had sex. My body is precious. I've learned that my mental and emotional health is tied to my sexuality. I no longer want empty sex. I want meaningful, connected, beautiful love making. An exchange of energy. My choice. And if in a relationship I am feeling disconnected, I will say so...and sex will not continue until things can be figured out--- or not. I want to share my body with someone and love their body. Without that, it's just sex, and I can do myself just fine. I won't be used again. Nor will I use someone.
> 
> I swear, one thing I've learned, when sex fills up the quiet, words usually stop. The people whom I waited to have sex with (for however long), I was closer to. Wherever in the timeframe of the relationship I had sex with someone, that was were our emotional connection and verbal communication was stunted. It froze there. Instead of staying up late and talking, enjoying each other and kissing, etc...we were in bed. Then asleep.
> 
> Do what feels right TO YOU. If the person can't handle it, they aren't interested in you as a person...they just want your vagina. So...let them find another vagina.
> 
> It's also my belief that no one needs to know when you slept with others. WTF? What business is that of theirs? I mean, if we're going to compare, then let's compare everything. How I felt about myself with sleeping with them at that time. How they made me feel. How I felt about them. My life at that time. The age I was, the factors surrounding the situation. Come on. Anyone who gets like this about my past is NOT someone for me. I have never judged someone's behavior towards me by comparing it to the past. That's just silly. We are not stagnant beings. We are constantly changing and growing and learning about life and Love. How dare someone tell ME that I have to have sex with THEM just because I had sex with someone sooner than with him. Holy crap. There's the door. I am not just a body. I don't date for company (I have friends). I just let it flow. But i guess it weeds out the people who just want sex. I no longer do.
> 
> Not to say sex shouldn't be a topic of conversation within the first few dates. That's important. But that doesn't mean it has to happen until you're ready. Our bodies sense things our minds and hearts don't. If you're with someone for a while and still hesitant about having sex with them, you need to look at that. Your body is trying to tell you something.
> 
> Just my 2cents.


I think this is a very good way to look at things. I have slept with three women in my life. The first two on the first date, and then one on the second date. The first, we dated for two years before she died. The second, we were together for 20 years, 17 married before divorcing. The third, I have been with her for over a year now, and things are very strong.

I have had women break up with me for not sleeping with them. I have never broken up with a woman for not sleeping with me. The three I have slept with are the only three I have pursued in that way.

With my current, STBW, our communication has only gotten better. Yeah, we have sex 10-15 times a week, but in between, before, after we are always talking about this that and the other. Life, work, hopes, dreams, you name it. We were both concerned that once we slept together, exactly what you described would happen...the communication would stop. I'm not sure if it's because we both make an effort to make sure it doesn't, or that we are just that compatible. I don't feel like I am making an effort in that regard. It just flows naturally. Our first date...I didn't make a move to even kiss her until a bit before we parted ways, but damn, we both wanted to rip each others clothes off and hit it right there all ngiht long. The sexual tension was so f'ing thick...I've never felt anything like it before in my life. Still not sure exactly why we didn't, but the restraint was mutual and it, like everything else just felt right.


----------



## doubletrouble

See_Listen_Love said:


> Yes, good points. I think nobody will deny her the right to better her proceedings in order to get the LTR she aims for.
> 
> But she fooled the guy, and needs to communicate with him. If she really values a LTR, she needs to take the chance he runs, because if he is crazy about her, he will accept her story, her apologies and give the relation some more time.
> 
> What I wonder, you seem to be or have been in the same boat as her, did you make a progression from ONS to 5 years waiting?! That sounds a little extreme.
> 
> Or did or do you have this variation theoretical still in your life as a matter of opinion depending on who the guy is?! Which seems also a bit extreme.


Yes, the commuinication has been piss poor, and that's why she's where she is right now. using sex to fix it isn't the right trail to follow either, in my mind. 

When i was younger, I had a few ONS relationships. Well, you can't relaly call them relationships. I met the woman I am married to several years ago, and we waited until life aligned properly (about 5 years) to get together. It's a long story, with bumps in the road, but it was worth the wait.


----------



## weightlifter

Samy. One died? brief explanation please. end hijack.

I think there is a happy medium between 2 hours and 2 months.


----------



## samyeagar

weightlifter said:


> *Samy. One died? brief explanation please.* end hijack.
> 
> I think there is a happy medium between 2 hours and 2 months.


Yes. She died in a car accident while we were dating. It effectively ended the relationship.


----------



## weightlifter

samyeagar said:


> Yes. She died in a car accident while we were dating. It effectively ended the relationship.


Er wow uh I think you win the captain obvious award of the day. Im rather glad the relationship did not go on after she died.

Sorry for your loss.


----------



## samyeagar

weightlifter said:


> Er wow uh I think you win the captain obvious award of the day. Im rather glad the relationship did not go on after she died.
> 
> Sorry for your loss.


Thank you. It happened quite a long time ago, and I have long made peace with it, which is why I can have a little levity now. She was my first real love, and it was a very good and healthy relationship. It is likely that we would have ended up married.

She would have fallen off her chair laughing at my comment above, followed by a big "Yuh Think?"


----------



## Entropy3000

MrK said:


> I'm going to print this out and save it for when I get my time travel machine perfected. I will go back and give it to my wife before we married.


You already did.


----------



## Entropy3000

Starstarfish said:


> I'm curious for everyone proposing that the third date is the "ticket" to when sex should be happening.
> 
> When you date a woman who indeed followed the "third date" rule, do you hold that against her? Do you feel that was "too soon" and to compensate you'll expect it on the second date or even the first date to feel she "wants you" more than the last guy?
> 
> Because apparently, when you choose to have sex isn't just about the current guy you are dating, or how hot he is, or whether or not you are a dessicated husk who doesn't want sex or a "gatekeeper", but also you need to calculate the risk that if things don't work out, the next guy will expect sex based on when this guy got sex.
> 
> Which, if things don't work out, you'll need to start having sex before you even go out on dates, so no one feels "screwed over."


One has to choose wisely. Not every guy is "the guy" or even in the top ten. 

Third date is a good idea if one is looking for doing a lot of dating of different people and is looking for recreational sex. Nothing wrong with this per se. BUT, it can limit your choices down the road when this has become tiresome.

If the goal is to have sex in mainly an LTR .. the third date ... may be a tad too soon ... to pull on his trigger.

I see the third date rule as an indicator of the devaluing of sex. And just repeat the rule over and over and realize how absurd this is. 

So can I use a coupn on the 4th date? 

I think age and experience play into this. And just how much dating will you be doing? 

Do you have sex with someone you are not exclusive with? That is another value judgement. 

Do you date multiple people and have sex wth all of them? I guess I could have a harem then. Maybe I am being too hasty.

What is very awkward is when someone is exclusive and the other is not.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cosmos said:


> Well said, Starfish.
> 
> Even in same sex friendships, we don't 'share all' (if we're sensible) with somebody we have only met on a handful of occasions. We want to get to know them and learn if they are trustworthy etc before sharing too much information with them, and I can't imagine wanting to share something as personal as my body with someone I hardly know - no matter how attracted I might be.
> 
> When it comes to my personal wellbeing, I am most certainly ruled by my brain rather than my hormones. Had I had sex with every man I dated and / or was attracted to, my numbers would be astronomically high!


But if you did that, you would not be you and you would not be nearly as awesome.


----------



## Entropy3000

Mavash. said:


> And this can be accomplished without having sex. By the 3rd date with my husband I did want to tear his clothes off but I resisted because yes it was too soon. But he KNEW I wanted him. The chemistry was there and he saw it.


Agreed. A woman has to have skilz. The man has to feel she is into him if nothing else.

BUT it becomes a tough sell if she slept with a ton of other guys on the first date.


----------



## that_girl

Which is why you don't need to know if I slept with people on a first date.

Dang. Control much?

What if I did? And none of them worked out...so I decided to wait?

Who the eff cares. I guess if you didn't like that, you could go...and i'd find someone better suited.


----------



## Entropy3000

that_girl said:


> Which is why you don't need to know if I slept with people on a first date.
> 
> Dang. Control much?
> 
> What if I did? And none of them worked out...so I decided to wait?
> 
> Who the eff cares. I guess if you didn't like that, you could go...and i'd find someone better suited.


I would care. I am not alone is the point. Yes, I would go and save a whole lot of time and emotional energy and invest it in someone else. You would benefit as well. Your time and emotional energy should not be wasted either. So being honest and open has its place. No one should hide their past. If they are ashamed of their past they have bigger issues. There are plenty of guys who would not care. So the sooner we figured this out the better.

That is why at some point if a woman is trying to change her life style she needs to communicate it. I did this BTW. It cost me at least once. Not doing so is not being intimate. If there is a small number of guys feeling like I do then there is no problem at all. It only becomes difficult if the number are higher and it is a characteristic of the type of guy you want. Otherwise no losss. Many guys like me value honesty and intimacy way above the specifics. A mature high value woman would do this IMO. One who hides stuff ... not so much.


----------



## that_girl

I am just thinking about people's reasons.

I've been with 10 people now. Never on a first date, but wanted my husband on ours  3 of my 10 were just flings. Never had a ONS. lol Not ashamed, but...in date 3? discuss all that? Depends on the chemistry, etc.


----------



## Entropy3000

that_girl said:


> I am just thinking about people's reasons.
> 
> I've been with 10 people now. Never on a first date, but wanted my husband on ours  3 of my 10 were just flings. Never had a ONS. lol Not ashamed, but...in date 3? discuss all that? Depends on the chemistry, etc.


You have nothing to be ashamed about at all TG. I just think highly of honesty. That is important.

Plus if you were dating me, you would have some real issues. I am twice your age for crying out loud!!! 

It is about compaibility. Different things are important to different people. It is what it is.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Entropy3000 said:


> Agreed. A woman has to have skilz. The man has to feel she is into him if nothing else.
> 
> BUT it becomes a tough sell if she slept with a ton of other guys on the first date.


I am surprised that many people think this way. I am 50 years old. 30 years ago, I had my share of 'hooking up' with someone. At a party, a little drinking, a little flirting and before you know it, you find yourself alone with someone.

I think this is happening more now than it did 30 years ago.

I wouldn't judge a girl because she did this, because I know it happened to me a few times. Just because I had a couple of ONS, doesn't mean all my relationships had to include sex on the first date.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

SadSamIAm said:


> I am surprised that many people think this way. I am 50 years old. 30 years ago, I had my share of 'hooking up' with someone. At a party, a little drinking, a little flirting and before you know it, you find yourself alone with someone.
> 
> I think this is happening more now than it did 30 years ago.
> 
> I wouldn't judge a girl because she did this, because I know it happened to me a few times. Just because I had a couple of ONS, doesn't mean all my relationships had to include sex on the first date.


But if a woman does that multiple times, but after 3 months still doesn't let you to 2nd base...well it's easy to see where you rank.


----------



## chillymorn

if I asked a woman I date and she lied to me and then I found out differently I would move along.

what else is she lying about?

same goes for the woman I would hope but it might be a different topic. if he said he made x amount of money and then later you found out he lied would you still want to date him? 

lying about anything is a bad idea if you want a true relationship.

I guess white lie might be different but everybody draws the line for lying differently.

I don't watch porn and then you find out he used to or he only dose it sometimes or he spanks it everyday to gay porn.


people who lie about stuff usually can't be trusted. everybody lies some. the average person lie 14 times a day (its true I read it on the internet)LOL. 

in the end at least for me your spouce,life partner,signifigant other should be the one person you try the hardest to never lie to.

wives who lie about not getting off in hope of saving their husbands feelings.

hows that working for ya. there has been a number of post about how the husband was devastate because he was walking around think he was the man only to find out he was a dud. plus he never tries to truly be a good love because .....you lied.


again my opinion is lying is bad for a relationship.


----------



## samyeagar

My STBW has slept with ten times as many men as I have women. She has done anal, had threesomes, revenge sex, all that. Yes, I am going to marry her.

Our communication is outstanding. We have talked through all of these issues, and she has gone out of her way to listen, reassure, explain...in short, she has been completely open and honest and has worked with me in dealing with her past. I understand her, what she was doing, what she's doing now, and I accept her.

Without the communication we have, we would not be together any more.


----------



## JaneDoe2013

I don’t know if this is going to be a short post or a long post because my mood is kind of serene right now and things just make sense and I’m just going with it. I’ve had an eye opening week, that’s for sure.

I know your hearts are all in the right place and that you’ve given me what you think is good advice. I think what has sunk in is how men feel about stuff like this. I really get it, I do. A bunch of people said my guy feels "ripped off." Yeah, I can see that. And to those who said I don't find him attractive, well I do. It's just that he's treated me differently than other guys have in the past (and ALL in a good way!!) and I just acted stupid. Really my mistake and I own up to it.

Anyway, I think we're on the road to getting all this behind us.

As far as mending things: So when we met up on Wednesday night it was really stressful cause I don’t think he wanted to be there. We had a sort of quiet dinner at a place we both like but it sort of just wasn’t the same. Anyhow, whenever I tried to get the conversation started about “our situation” he just changed the topic to small talk. So we weren’t there long. He drove me home and when we got to my place I invited him to come in. He didn’t want to so we stayed in his car. I felt ****ty and I started talking about whatever. I told him that I wanted to “rewind” to last week and pick up from there. He didn’t clue in, so I kind of reached over to his side and told him that this is what I should’ve done and not how I reacted for some stupid reason. He got it then, but said he wasn’t in the mood. I sort of pushed it a bit and when I got him unzipped found out he really wasn’t in the mood. So I decided to get him in the mood and eventually did. (not really relevant but ironic was when I discovered that he is like handsomely endowed!). Anyhow I did oral stuff for a while but he didn’t finish. He eventually pushed me up and said something like he didn’t want it to be like this and that he wanted to feel like I wanted to do it, not had to do it or something like that. It got kinda quiet and we didn’t say much. He said we should call it a night. He kissed me and said goodnight. And I kissed him back. He actually got out and opened the door for me as he always does and it struck me that he’s the only guy who’s ever done that for me. And before people jump all over him saying it’s all part of his bad nasty plan to get into my pants bla bla, please just don’t. He’s just a great guy as he’s been since day one and I just didn’t treat him right. 

I thought last night we would “really” set things right but he had to work late. But he did call me when he got home and we had a more comfortable talk than we did at the restaurant. Sooo tonight, he’s coming over and he’s going to stay the night. I think he’s a bit conflicted still but I know he cares so that’s really good.


----------



## weightlifter

ROCK HIS WORLD

Nuff said.


----------



## that_girl

And whatever.

Now, after being married and growing up and all that, what I was 7 years ago when dating is NOT who I am now.

If a man wants to judge that, he's not someone I'd want to be with. lol. I hate dating. Yuck.


----------



## that_girl

It's like when I needed a job while student teaching. Just a simple job. I applied at Big 5 Sporting...they wanted my HS transcripts. I said, I graduated college...I have those transcripts. They said no...need HS transcripts. LOLOLOL I asked if they asked old people for HS transcripts. Wtf. 

I was in my credentially program. I had a BA. They wanted my HS transcripts. I walked out of that interview. Screw those losers.

I just feel like who I was at 25 is NOT who I am now. I was wild then. I was 25. Wtf. I was not really a mature woman. I am now.

So....if I tell stories about my past, and someone wants to whine about why I don't do that with them, well, they need to go. I used to go to clubs and party and dance all crazy. I don't do that anymore. Is someone going to whine that since i used to, I should keep doing it?

Absurd.


----------



## samyeagar

I am very glad to see you defending your man like a partner should. He really is the good guy some of us thought he was. I am really hopeful you can put this behind you. Your situation is something I am familiar with from the guys point of view, and it sounds like you are on the right track to handling it correctly, and if you continue to do so, I see no reason this will cause the breakdown of your relationship.

As a man with a woman who has a much more colorful past than I have, it was important to me that she was honest. He may ask some questions you don't want to answer. There will be people here who will tell you it's none of his business and how dare he ask and things like that. It is certainly your right not to answer, but I really think that is the wrong way to go if you want to build openess and trust.

I didn't ask many questions because I didn't want to deal with the mind movies, but there were some situations I had to know about because of people we would be interacting with, and neither of us wanted any surprises. Be as clinical and emotionless when talking about it. Answer directly without going into any more detail than he asks for, even if you're trying to explain something and make a point.

He will probably need some hand holding through this, and you have got to do it. If you want to keep him, and feel the way you do about him, your number one priority has to be making him feel safe, coomfortable, and desired above all the others. He will compare himself to your past, and you have to reassure him without making the comparison yourself.

We didn't have the issue of witholding for a length of time that you have, and that makes it more difficult. You will have to convince him that you really want him, and that it's not just duty sex. Guys are not walking hard ons as you discovered. This may be something you hadn't known before. Some men do need to feel the same safety and emotional connection for things to work right. My STBW didn't know that, and she's 38. You may need to let him drive things for a while, at the same time making yourself available, and making sure he knows you are available without pushing.

You can do this. It can work because I am living proof of it. Now go out and have some fun with him


----------



## samyeagar

that_girl said:


> It's like when I needed a job while student teaching. Just a simple job. I applied at Big 5 Sporting...they wanted my HS transcripts. I said, I graduated college...I have those transcripts. They said no...need HS transcripts. LOLOLOL I asked if they asked old people for HS transcripts. Wtf.
> 
> I was in my credentially program. I had a BA. They wanted my HS transcripts. I walked out of that interview. Screw those losers.
> 
> I just feel like who I was at 25 is NOT who I am now. I was wild then. I was 25. Wtf. I was not really a mature woman. I am now.
> 
> *So....if I tell stories about my past, and someone wants to whine about why I don't do that with them, well, they need to go. I used to go to clubs and party and dance all crazy. I don't do that anymore. Is someone going to whine that since i used to, I should keep doing it?*
> Absurd.


And with that attitude, you wil be attracting a very different kind of man than the OP has and wants. To each their own.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I would not be happy with this outcome. It feels like you're doing it because you have to to keep the nice guy. You don't sound hot for him. At all really. But anyway, good luck to you both.


----------



## that_girl

samyeagar said:


> And with that attitude, you wil be attracting a very different kind of man than the OP has and wants. To each their own.


:rofl: I'll be attracted to people who don't club...or who don't think I should stay the same forever and ever and ever.

And ever.

I know who I am and what I want. I know I don't like loud clubs and bars. Why is that a crime? I liked them at 25...I don't like them at 37. So what.

Maybe I'll hold it to my partner how many times he can have sex in a day. He once did it 5 times...but with age, it could go down. But NO WAY can you change. NO way. No. Never.


----------



## samyeagar

WorkingOnMe said:


> I would not be happy with this outcome. It feels like you're doing it because you have to to keep the nice guy. You don't sound hot for him. At all really. But anyway, good luck to you both.


Only she really knows if she is or not. My reply above was under the assumption that she is.

In the case of mt STBW, I have absolutely no doubts that she is dripping wet hot for me, and was from the very first instant. That made it easier for us to work through this for sure, and will be a bump for them to get over.

She needs to convince him that she really is hot for him, and hopefully for his sake, she's not trying to convince herself at the same time...


----------



## that_girl

Yea. Faking it would be bad. Eventually, it will be obvious that you aren't into him sexually.


----------



## samyeagar

that_girl said:


> :rofl: I'll be attracted to people who don't club...or who don't think I should stay the same forever and ever and ever.
> 
> And ever.
> 
> I know who I am and what I want. I know I don't like loud clubs and bars. Why is that a crime? I liked them at 25...I don't like them at 37. So what.
> 
> Maybe I'll hold it to my partner how many times he can have sex in a day. He once did it 5 times...but with age, it could go down. But NO WAY can you change. NO way. No. Never.


No, not the specifics. The attitude of flaunting your past. Not just being at peace with it. It seems like you would be the type to say yep, I did this that and the other, and you can just deal with it, and if you don't like it, hit the road.

That may be fine if you are wanting a partner with similar pasts, but in the case of the OP, it is a situation of trying to reconcile very different pasts and attitudes, and the way you come off in how you would handle things would not work really well in this situation. I;m not saying it would be impossible, but it would be difficult, and there are ways of making it much easier.


----------



## tom67

Scorpions-Rock You Like A Hurricane - YouTube


----------



## committed4ever

samyeagar said:


> Only she really knows if she is or not. My reply above was under the assumption that she is.
> 
> In the case of mt STBW, I have absolutely no doubts that she is dripping wet hot for me, and was from the very first instant. *That made it easier for us to work through this for sure*, and will be a bump for them to get over.
> 
> She needs to convince him that she really is hot for him, and hopefully for his sake, she's not trying to convince herself at the same time...


Curious why you are comparing your relationship to hers? I thought I remember you two hit it off right from the beginning and got busy on your first date and been busy ever since?

OP relationship just seem sort of awkward and missing something from her description of things.


----------



## samyeagar

samyeagar said:


> I am very glad to see you defending your man like a partner should. He really is the good guy some of us thought he was. I am really hopeful you can put this behind you. Your situation is something I am familiar with from the guys point of view, and it sounds like you are on the right track to handling it correctly, and if you continue to do so, I see no reason this will cause the breakdown of your relationship.
> 
> As a man with a woman who has a much more colorful past than I have, it was important to me that she was honest. He may ask some questions you don't want to answer. There will be people here who will tell you it's none of his business and how dare he ask and things like that. It is certainly your right not to answer, but I really think that is the wrong way to go if you want to build openess and trust.
> 
> I didn't ask many questions because I didn't want to deal with the mind movies, but there were some situations I had to know about because of people we would be interacting with, and neither of us wanted any surprises. Be as clinical and emotionless when talking about it. Answer directly without going into any more detail than he asks for, even if you're trying to explain something and make a point.
> 
> He will probably need some hand holding through this, and you have got to do it. If you want to keep him, and feel the way you do about him, your number one priority has to be making him feel safe, coomfortable, and desired above all the others. He will compare himself to your past, and you have to reassure him without making the comparison yourself.
> 
> *We didn't have the issue of witholding for a length of time that you have, and that makes it more difficult. You will have to convince him that you really want him, and that it's not just duty sex.* Guys are not walking hard ons as you discovered. This may be something you hadn't known before. Some men do need to feel the same safety and emotional connection for things to work right. My STBW didn't know that, and she's 38. You may need to let him drive things for a while, at the same time making yourself available, and making sure he knows you are available without pushing.
> 
> You can do this. It can work because I am living proof of it. Now go out and have some fun with him





committed4ever said:


> Curious why you are comparing your relationship to hers? I thought I remember you two hit it off right from the beginning and got busy on your first date and been busy ever since?
> 
> OP relationship just seem sort of awkward and missing something from her description of things.


It was actually our second date, but we wanted it on the first one, and have been busy ever since 

I did address your point in an earlier post about the added issue they have with her witholding and having to work through that. I am working under the assumption that she is indeed as hot for him as she claims.


----------



## that_girl

I deal with the NOW.

The past is the past. It can't be changed. 

If a new partner was whiny about my past, he'd have to go. I'm in the now, moving forward.

I think she'll get bored with this guy anyway. ALready sounds like she is.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

that_girl said:


> I deal with the NOW.
> 
> The past is the past. It can't be changed.
> 
> If a new partner was whiny about my past, he'd have to go. I'm in the now, moving forward.
> 
> I think she'll get bored with this guy anyway. ALready sounds like she is.


:scratchhead:

If my partner would talk about me like 'whining over her past', SHE would have to go...


----------



## samyeagar

that_girl said:


> I deal with the NOW.
> 
> The past is the past. It can't be changed.
> 
> If a new partner was whiny about my past, he'd have to go. I'm in the now, moving forward.
> 
> I think she'll get bored with this guy anyway. ALready sounds like she is.


And it is perfectly fine for you to have that attitude, and think that way. If that is one of the filters you want to use in choosing a partner, that is certainly your right. It will no doubt help you attract the kind of man you want, which would not be a man like me.


----------



## hookares

Had I been the guy who got slapped and I was still interested in dating her, every other date from that point on would have been strictly platonic with trips to zoos, museums and fireworks shows.
I would give it maybe three more dates and if she didn't approach me then I would assume she was just a different version of my ex wife who always enjoyed taking advantage of me financially.


----------



## that_girl

See_Listen_Love said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> If my partner would talk about me like 'whining over her past', SHE would have to go...


Then it would be a perfect match.

I can't see how these conversations go. I have heard some things from lovers about their pasts and I hear it and think "wow" and move on. They are not the same as they were.

Do you men just sit and badger the woman with questions about their sex lives and then whine that it's not equal and fair? Big turn off. Lame.


----------



## that_girl

samyeagar said:


> And it is perfectly fine for you to have that attitude, and think that way. If that is one of the filters you want to use in choosing a partner, that is certainly your right. It will no doubt help you attract the kind of man you want, which would not be a man like me.


Yea. I like people who can hear about the past. Listen without judging and whining and still love me just how I am.

I have people like this in my life too. My exes didn't have a problem with my past, but then again, they didn't want to make everything about them and their needs. I didn't lie or hide things. I'm not that colorful anyhow but I have stories if they asked. I listened to theirs, without judging. I'd have hated if someone learned that I once had sexual contact (not intercourse) with lots of guys while I was working through sexual abuse, and then expected the same with them. Just "because I was once like that". I dunno. This is all just very silly to me. 

I'm glad I don't date. I can't see how by date 3 a woman or man can feel comfortable enough to TRUST the other person with this information about their past (if it's bad), and still put out on that date...wtf :confusion: I am glad ya'll got it figured out because it makes no sense to me.


----------



## alte Dame

It seems to me that OP made a unilateral decision about when she and her bf would start a sexual relationship, but since this should be a joint decision, he was at best confused about what was happening. Sure, she has a right to do what is good for her, but it would help if she brought him into the conversation so that he at least knows what to expect.

It also seems to me that she still has not told him what motivated her to do what she did. If she wants a do-over, as she requested, she needs to tell him what she has told all of us. Right now he is confused, put off and probably a bit p!ssed off. He may well be starting to think that this nice woman that he was starting to feel a bit serious about is a little bit off her rocker.

Communication and honesty, OP. Tell him the whole story and then see if he wants to keep trying. No more game-playing and making him guess what you are thinking.


----------



## theroad

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't think it matters how many bad boys she had sex with before.
> The fact is , this is HER body and she can do as she damn well pleases with it.
> 
> She has decided that the past ones were mistakes, so , should she continue making the same mistake?
> 
> Based on how this present boyfriend is acting, my haunch is that he to will turn out to be a mistake.
> 
> It is up to Mr. Love of her life here to decide if she is worth waiting for, just like it is up to her to have sex with him when she's ready.
> 
> I don't think that she should feel " pressured" to have sex with him because of her past.
> That's just stupid.


If a girl was the town bicycle when a teen and now saw the error of her way's in her 20's good for her. Better to get smart late then to stay stupid.

As to her current BF. Dump him. A man will not pressure a girl for sex. To ask those questions is use exploit her past mistakes so he can use her.

I have said this to guy's about their hoe's, err, I mean girl friends, and now to a girl for the first time about their stud's, err I mean dud's. Dating is the job interview for marriage. He/the dud failed, dump him.


----------



## pink_lady

I know OP is going on and on about what a great guy her bf is, but I can't get past the fact that he asked a woman he's never had any type of intimacy with for a freaking blow job while sitting in a car. 

All I can think of is the meth hooker in Breaking Bad, taking her gum out of her mouth to go down on john after john in the parking lot of her fleabag motel. 

So not sexy, so not appealing in any way, shape or form. Ugh.


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## See_Listen_Love

pink_lady said:


> I know OP is going on and on about what a great guy her bf is, but I can't get past the fact that he asked a woman he's never had any type of intimacy with for a freaking blow job while sitting in a car.


:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

But, is that what about about 80% of all men at least once tried to persuade their girlfriends to do when they were young??

(The rest being gay or LD)


----------



## Starstarfish

Uh - at the BF's stated age, not really sure he gets the "Sorry, I'm too young to know better" pass.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Let's be honest the BF is not exactly the world's greatest seducer - although whiney seems to have got the job done in this case.:ezpi_wink1:


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## Caribbean Man

Starstarfish said:


> Uh - at the BF's stated age, not really sure he gets the "Sorry, I'm too young to know better" pass.



That's why I said that he's had problems with women and sex in the past.
"Asking" for a blowjob in a parked car is something only teen aged guys and men who hire prostitutes do .
Only an inexperienced girl or one with self esteem problems would respond positively to that.


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## richie33

25 dates in 2 months. This guy is clearly into her. He is not Rico Suave. He sees her as a potential long term relationship. 
The slap should have gave him his answer. Head for the hills.


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## that_girl

pink_lady said:


> I know OP is going on and on about what a great guy her bf is, but I can't get past the fact that he asked a woman he's never had any type of intimacy with for a freaking blow job while sitting in a car.
> 
> All I can think of is the meth hooker in Breaking Bad, taking her gum out of her mouth to go down on john after john in the parking lot of her fleabag motel.
> 
> So not sexy, so not appealing in any way, shape or form. Ugh.


:lol:

That's true. It wasn't even about her and them together and making love or what the hell ever. Going from kissing to BJ. Really? Wow.

Yea no.


----------



## john_lord_b3

samyeagar said:


> I am very glad to see you defending your man like a partner should. He really is the good guy some of us thought he was. I am really hopeful you can put this behind you. Your situation is something I am familiar with from the guys point of view, and it sounds like you are on the right track to handling it correctly, and if you continue to do so, I see no reason this will cause the breakdown of your relationship...We didn't have the issue of witholding for a length of time that you have, and that makes it more difficult. .. You will have to convince him that you really want him, and that it's not just duty sex. *Guys are not walking hard ons as you discovered. This may be something you hadn't known before*. Some men do need to feel the same safety and emotional connection for things to work right.


yea, some men are actually like this (not having erection easily) and it wasn't always a good surprise for the women they're with. It could actually hit the ego quite hard, the men think they're not virile and the women think they're not attractive. Disastrous.


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## john_lord_b3

JaneDoe2013 said:


> I don’t know if this is going to be a short post or a long post because my mood is kind of serene right now and things just make sense and I’m just going with it. I’ve had an eye opening week, that’s for sure.
> 
> I know your hearts are all in the right place and that you’ve given me what you think is good advice. I think what has sunk in is how men feel about stuff like this. I really get it, I do. A bunch of people said my guy feels "ripped off." Yeah, I can see that. And to those who said I don't find him attractive, well I do. It's just that he's treated me differently than other guys have in the past (and ALL in a good way!!) and I just acted stupid. Really my mistake and I own up to it.
> 
> Anyway, I think we're on the road to getting all this behind us.
> 
> As far as mending things: So when we met up on Wednesday night it was really stressful cause I don’t think he wanted to be there. We had a sort of quiet dinner at a place we both like but it sort of just wasn’t the same. Anyhow, whenever I tried to get the conversation started about “our situation” he just changed the topic to small talk. So we weren’t there long. He drove me home and when we got to my place I invited him to come in. He didn’t want to so we stayed in his car. I felt ****ty and I started talking about whatever. I told him that I wanted to “rewind” to last week and pick up from there. He didn’t clue in, so I kind of reached over to his side and told him that this is what I should’ve done and not how I reacted for some stupid reason. He got it then, but said he wasn’t in the mood. I sort of pushed it a bit and when I got him unzipped found out he really wasn’t in the mood. So I decided to get him in the mood and eventually did. (not really relevant but ironic was when I discovered that he is like handsomely endowed!). Anyhow I did oral stuff for a while but he didn’t finish. He eventually pushed me up and said something like he didn’t want it to be like this and that he wanted to feel like I wanted to do it, not had to do it or something like that. It got kinda quiet and we didn’t say much. He said we should call it a night. He kissed me and said goodnight. And I kissed him back. He actually got out and opened the door for me as he always does and it struck me that he’s the only guy who’s ever done that for me. And before people jump all over him saying it’s all part of his bad nasty plan to get into my pants bla bla, please just don’t. He’s just a great guy as he’s been since day one and I just didn’t treat him right.
> 
> I thought last night we would “really” set things right but he had to work late. But he did call me when he got home and we had a more comfortable talk than we did at the restaurant. Sooo tonight, he’s coming over and he’s going to stay the night. I think he’s a bit conflicted still but I know he cares so that’s really good.


It's ok, it's not as disastrous as we thought it's going to be. In fact both of you are to be commended for acting very mature. With more tender loving care you will get better. We are praying for your future happiness.

It is obvious that you're into him, including physically, and again we wish you much luck in your future dates with your boyfriend.

And I wish all the posters in this thread would read what you actually wrote here in this post and comment accordingly, instead of forming their own (possibly very wrong) conclusions. The two of you deserves better.


----------



## pink_lady

Caribbean Man said:


> That's why I said that he's had problems with women and sex in the past.
> "Asking" for a blowjob in a parked car is something only teens aged guys and men who hire prostitutes do .
> Only an inexperienced girl or one with self esteem problems would respond positively to that.


THIS.

I just started dating a guy I might REALLY like. This thread has been a real help in figuring out what he is probably thinking. Thanks guys! Especially Entropy and Caribbean Man <3


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## yours4ever

pink_lady said:


> THIS.
> 
> I just started dating a guy I might REALLY like. This thread has been a real help in figuring out what he is probably thinking. Thanks guys! Especially Entropy and Caribbean Man <3



Hey sister 
Nothing wrong to delay intimacy(sex). 
In fact, speaking as a lady who reads a lot of dating/relationship books and websites authored by MEN, I'd say it is better for us women to delay sex...especially when you are in early stage of relationship.

Why? Because
1. Hormones released during n after sex clouds a woman's judgment of a man /relationship
2. A serious man will and ABLE to wait. Delaying sex helps you to filter men who just want to bang.
3. Let him chase you. The more time n effort he put in, the more attached he to you. That, sister, is how you keep a man interested. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jnj express

Hey Jane Doe----this guy seems like a good guy---he also probably comes with the "nice guy" tag---and is definitely not a "bad boy"

Do it right---but don't force anything---hopefully it will all come naturally, and work out for you---

He may have had some bad situations earlier in his dating life---and he may very well have been a victim of the nice guy vs bad boy situation---so just be careful

You do know from now on---just tell the truth----if you went out with guys so you could get physical satisfaction---so what---your past has no bearing------its what is in front of you, that you need to play the right way---and this guy seems to be kind of fragile------if you really like/want him---just do things right, and be truthful no matter what


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## sinnister

This thread is funny. So much projecting going on...to the point of simply ignoring what the OP says about the guy and forming your own conclusions.

Asking for a BJ in a car from a woman you've been dating for 2 months and over 25 freaking dates is not an egregious offense. Contrary to obvious belief here...life is not a freaking rom-com where Ryan Reynolds will sweep you off your feet with combination of whit, charm, manners and large bank account!

We are men. We are imperfect. We handle things poorly when it comes to intimacy MOST of the time! We on the whole are not finished products. We need work when it comes to emotions and sex. The OP see's thank goodness. 

Some of you are speaking as if men are to act like they do on TV and glamour magazine. Good luck with that. 

Say what you will about chauvinists and pick up artists and immature frat boys etc etc etc. But there is a very real reason why they NEVER have to worry about love and intimacy. Some of you have an unrealistic view of men and how we should act.

Again...asking for a BJ from your steady gf is NOT a bad thing. Even if you've never had previous intimacy. In my opinon it took the guy way too long to ask and he's a saint for not moving forward. If this relationship continues he'l be a regularly contributor speaking about his "LD wife".


----------



## that_girl

Way too much work for me.

I'm over trying to "help" someone overcome a past. Or help him overcome stigmas from being a nice guy  Wtf. 

How about dating someone who knows who he is? How about telling men that you aren't going to be intimate right away...so it takes the pressure off?


I dunno. Lots of work for only 2 months.


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## richie33

He must feel the same way....too much work.


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## treyvion

Caribbean Man said:


> That's why I said that he's had problems with women and sex in the past.
> "Asking" for a blowjob in a parked car is something only teen aged guys and men who hire prostitutes do .
> Only an inexperienced girl or one with self esteem problems would respond positively to that.


Or maybe a freak.


----------



## golfergirl

OP said he hinted at it. There is a difference between, 'blow me b!tch!' and, 'we can do other things'. My guess it's somewhere in the middle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1

golfergirl said:


> OP said he hinted at it. There is a difference between, 'blow me b!tch!' and, 'we can do other things'. My guess it's somewhere in the middle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: Yeah a very awkward middle - if so it makes her slap even more questionable....I'm beginning to get the feeling these two may be well matched after all....


----------



## pink_lady

It's fine for a guy to think that a man (who is approaching 30 years of age) asking a woman he's been dating but has never done anything sexual with for a blow job while sitting in a car is "not a bad thing".

But that opinion doesn't change the consequences. As we have established, most women would be completely turned off/grossed out by it.


----------



## Truthseeker1

pink_lady said:


> It's fine for a guy to think that a man (who is approaching 30 years of age) asking a woman he's been dating but has never done anything sexual with for a blow job while sitting in a car is "not a bad thing".
> 
> But that opinion doesn't change the consequences. As we have established, most women would be completely turned off/grossed out by it.


:iagree: Yeah his approach was shall we say a bit blunt...:slap: I'm assuming he didn't set the mood...


----------



## treyvion

Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree: Yeah his approach was shall we say a bit blunt...:slap: I'm assuming he didn't set the mood...


Well you kinda kiss her and either she opens your pants or you do...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## john_lord_b3

I am reposting the OPs latest reply, so that it won't get buried under dozens of other posts. 



JaneDoe2013 said:


> I don’t know if this is going to be a short post or a long post because my mood is kind of serene right now and things just make sense and I’m just going with it. I’ve had an eye opening week, that’s for sure.
> 
> I know your hearts are all in the right place and that you’ve given me what you think is good advice. I think what has sunk in is how men feel about stuff like this. I really get it, I do. A bunch of people said my guy feels "ripped off." Yeah, I can see that. And to those who said I don't find him attractive, well I do. It's just that he's treated me differently than other guys have in the past (and ALL in a good way!!) and I just acted stupid. Really my mistake and I own up to it.
> 
> Anyway, I think we're on the road to getting all this behind us.
> 
> As far as mending things: So when we met up on Wednesday night it was really stressful cause I don’t think he wanted to be there. We had a sort of quiet dinner at a place we both like but it sort of just wasn’t the same. Anyhow, whenever I tried to get the conversation started about “our situation” he just changed the topic to small talk. So we weren’t there long. *He drove me home and when we got to my place I invited him to come in. He didn’t want to so we stayed in his car. I felt ****ty and I started talking about whatever. I told him that I wanted to “rewind” to last week and pick up from there. He didn’t clue in, so I kind of reached over to his side and told him that this is what I should’ve done and not how I reacted for some stupid reason*. He got it then, but said he wasn’t in the mood. *I sort of pushed it a bit and when I got him unzipped found out he really wasn’t in the mood. So I decided to get him in the mood and eventually did. (not really relevant but ironic was when I discovered that he is like handsomely endowed!). Anyhow I did oral stuff for a while but he didn’t finish. He eventually pushed me up and said something like he didn’t want it* to be like this and that he wanted to feel like I wanted to do it, not had to do it or something like that. It got kinda quiet and we didn’t say much. He said we should call it a night. *He kissed me and said goodnight. And I kissed him back. He actually got out and opened the door for me as he always does and it struck me that he’s the only guy who’s ever done that for me. And before people jump all over him saying it’s all part of his bad nasty plan to get into my pants bla bla, please just don’t*. He’s just a great guy as he’s been since day one and I just didn’t treat him right.
> 
> I thought last night we would “really” set things right but he had to work late. But he did call me when he got home and we had a more comfortable talk than we did at the restaurant. Sooo tonight, he’s coming over and he’s going to stay the night. I think he’s a bit conflicted still but I know he cares so that’s really good.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Caribbean Man said:


> That's why I said that he's had problems with women and sex in the past.
> "Asking" for a blowjob in a parked car is something only teen aged guys and men who hire prostitutes do .
> Only an inexperienced girl or one with self esteem problems would respond positively to that.


Or your wife of 7 years when she's still into you 

If my wife and I are driving somewhere, alone, we'll routinely ask from some "favor" to make the drive go by faster. I love making your O with my finger while driving, and lets just say, I might be driving but she's working the stick.

Sorry, I know this doesn't apply to this situation LOL just had to throw out some levity.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

that_girl said:


> :lol:
> 
> That's true. It wasn't even about her and them together and making love or what the hell ever. Going from kissing to BJ. Really? Wow.
> 
> Yea no.


Totally agree. ANY relationship I've ever been in that was turning intimate, I always wanted to rock HER world as our first sexual experience....definitely makes her want to come back for more :smthumbup:

I can honestly say I've never gotten a BJ before making my partner orgasm (if you lay out a timeline) in any relationship.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

yours4ever said:


> Hey sister
> Nothing wrong to delay intimacy(sex).
> In fact, speaking as a lady who reads a lot of dating/relationship books and websites authored by MEN, I'd say it is better for us women to delay sex...especially when you are in early stage of relationship.
> 
> Why? Because
> 1. Hormones released during n after sex clouds a woman's judgment of a man /relationship
> 2. A serious man will and ABLE to wait. Delaying sex helps you to filter men who just want to bang.
> 3. Let him chase you. The more time n effort he put in, the more attached he to you. That, sister, is how you keep a man interested.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great post here, but I did want to address 2 points. 

Number 2 and 3 CAN BE conflicting. I'm not saying NOT to wait, but don't do it as part of the dating game. I consider myself a pretty mature guy who never liked games in relationships. I wanted to meet a woman, see if we connected on all different levels (as friends who love spending time with each FIRST and THEN find out if we're sexually compatible). I was never looking for a "quick fling". I also HATE games in relationships, 

"how long to wait to make the first call"
"When to go for the first kiss"
"how long to wait for sex". 

They ALL should be answered by the following. "When you feel it's right". I've ACTUALLY called dates the NEXT DAY after a date *GASP I know breaking so many dating rules* to say I had a great time and would love to see her again...well because I had a great time and wanted to see her again. The few times where I felt that strongly and made that call, turned into relationships.

If a girl I was seeing had the mentality to withhold sex to "have me chase her"...well I'd have a major issue with that. Now keep in mind, the SOONEST I've had sex with someone was 3 weeks (multiple dates) and that was my wife with whom I have an AMAZING connection. BUT we had also corresponded for 5 months PRIOR to our first date, so you can say we only dated for 3 weeks, when in reality it was much longer. 2 months was usually my average because you really don't know someone sooner than that.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Dad&Hubby said:


> Or your wife of 7 years when she's still into you
> 
> If my wife and I are driving somewhere, alone, we'll routinely ask from some "favor" to make the drive go by faster. I love making your O with my finger while driving, and lets just say, I might be driving but she's working the stick.


Well those were my thoughts exactly.
Sometimes I play that game with my wife , and she plays it with me too.
Sometimes we may be fooling around and she just lifts her dres and push my head down...
She keeps her eyes open to see if anybody's "_ coming_. "

But we have been having sex for eighteen years now.
The OP's boyfriend hasn't even seen the " _promised land_ " as yet.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Caribbean Man said:


> Well those were my thoughts exactly.
> Sometimes I play that game with my wife , and she plays it with me too.
> Sometimes we may be fooling around and she just lifts her dres and push my head down...
> She keeps her eyes open to see if anybody's "_ coming_. "
> 
> But we have been having sex for eighteen years now.
> The OP's boyfriend hasn't even seen the " _promised land_ " as yet.


Where's the applause emote!!

I'm with you 100% on this. I couldn't IMAGINE doing what the OP's boyfriend did. When I'm into a woman and it's going to go sexual, my ONLY thought is to rock HER world. Whatever, can't teach some people everything.


----------



## imtamnew

Seinfeld Clip - He Took It Out - YouTube


Does this thread remind you about this


----------



## tacoma

This is what playing games gets you.

OP, he's done.

It may take awhile but you've put him in a position where he's never going to believe you're really into him sexually and that will lead him away from you.

Sex isn't currency.

Edit: Then there's the physical abuse.

No woman strikes me and sees me again.

If this one stays with you you'll tire of him within a year because no woman likes a doormat and a doormat is what he'd have to be to stay.


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## john_lord_b3

So that's why he doesn't finish when Ms. OP gave him a blowjob?

But surely not all men are fragile.. If his ego is that hurt, but doesn't time heal all wounds? This relationship still has a chance I think.


----------



## ntamph

tacoma said:


> This is what playing games gets you.
> 
> OP, he's done.
> 
> It may take awhile but you've put him in a position where he's never going to believe you're really into him sexually and that will lead him away from you.
> 
> Sex isn't currency.
> 
> Edit: Then there's the physical abuse.
> 
> No woman strikes me and sees me again.
> 
> If this one stays with you you'll tire of him within a year because no woman likes a doormat and a doormat is what he'd have to be to stay.


$20 she cheats on him with one of the "pig" exes.


----------



## KingofIstatements

john_lord_b3 said:


> But surely not all men are fragile.. If his ego is that hurt, but doesn't time heal all wounds? This relationship still has a chance I think.


I'm usually an optimistic person, but I can't be as hopeful as you in this situation. 

I've followed this discussion with interest, as I see a lot of similarities between myself and the BF (as described by the OP), only I'm on the other side of the marital fence. 

I haven't found that time, or even IC can help much with the visceral reactions to finally understanding that you're plan B, or Z, and were chosen for reliability and to 'settle down' with. 

The OP is not responsible for the fact that her boyfriend was seriously misinformed during his formative years regarding what women are actually attracted to, many of us were. But I'd be afraid if OP continues a relationship with him into marriage that this issue would continue to be under the surface for him, eventually making its appearance at the worst time. 

To be blunt: The BF is probably thinking that if he was _different_ (less nice to her..., more aggressive?) he would've long ago driven home with her saliva on his waistband, and he wouldn't have needed asking. This is a mess she doesn't need in the future, particularly if he starts changing his behaviour to be more like what he thinks she wants. 

Better that she let him go, to explore and develop his sexuality with a partner with a more similar background, and a clean slate.


----------



## EleGirl

OP has not been back in 5 days and this thread is still going strong? Wow


----------



## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> $20 she cheats on him with one of the "pig" exes.



Hostile to the OP much? No it's not a given. 

Why would she come back here for any support with trash like this being posted speculating about what your angry minds predict she will do?


----------



## krismimo

EleGirl said:


> OP has not been back in 5 days and this thread is still going strong? Wow


I saw someone posted in here thinking she said something. You beat me to it lol. WHY People?


----------



## EleGirl

krismimo said:


> I saw someone posted in here thinking she said something. You beat me to it lol. WHY People?



Here's a link to her last post... from 9/6/2013. Post #409

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...sked-me-awkward-questions-28.html#post4110449


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## RandomDude

Eh? Break up over a slap? No no, this relationship has promise in my opinion. Besides STBX and I exchanged a few slaps/punches/kicks/tumbles in the past, though mostly her hitting me and me laughing at her (which got her even more pissed lol)

As for his questions, I don't see how it's that unreasonable, awkward yes, but not really unreasonable and I'm sure you can clearly understand why he's asking these questions.

Sure you may not feel ready for sex, but he doesn't know that, it's still a guessing game with him. So instead of guessing he decided to ask what's wrong. The fact is despite your intentions you are rejecting him each time he advances, so he maybe wondering if you're not into him/into someone else/leading him on/etc etc.

He just wanted to know where he stood. That's it. Give the poor man a break he seems to have been a gentleman thus far. I wouldn't have been so respectful and patient!


----------



## bestyet2be

(Full disclosure -- I haven't had time to read all the many postings in this thread)

Hey Jane: Although it appears like you've induced many here to reply with projections motivated from their own not-so-positive memories and attitudes, you sound pretty well grounded. 

So I'm asking you, find a way to make it work!!! Be the new TAM mascot! :smthumbup:


----------



## ntamph

bestyet2be said:


> (Full disclosure -- I haven't had time to read all the many postings in this thread)
> 
> Hey Jane: Although it appears like you've induced many here to reply with projections motivated from their own not-so-positive memories and attitudes, you sound pretty well grounded.
> 
> So I'm asking you, find a way to make it work!!! Be the new TAM mascot! :smthumbup:


What? I thought her boyfriend was an insecure misogynist pig loser who she needs to lose fast?


----------



## Forever Changed

That's what I thought!


----------

