# Do all women just never really commit?



## JustFree

To clarify the title, I sitting across the table from a early 30 something women at a dance event. she was telling her friend that she danced with some guy (everyone dances with others, not unusual at these events), but she proceeded to describe the flutters she was having dancing with this particular person and how after she tracked him down on Facebook and was heartbroken because he did not respond. (she is married) 
I am still licking my wounds and have not dated yet but it got me think, do all women have such a carefree attitude to commitment. Do I have to be more superficial in a relationship. When I am in relationships I might look at other women but in my head I am thinking, wow she is an attractive gal, that's it. I am a guy, I like looking at pretty women as much as anyone else but would never think of even flirting. It would make me uncomfortable. I would be thinking I am doing something wrong. 
When I find the person "I think" will be good for me and me for her do I always have to be wondering, gee I wonder if she is thinking of somebody else.:scratchhead:


----------



## ReidWright

after reading TAM, I think it's abundantly clear that SOME women never commit fully, and SOME men never commit fully.

the tricky part is finding those that do


----------



## Married but Happy

Many do really commit. Some eventually lose that commitment - some for good reasons. And some of those cheat, while some just divorce and move on.

Painting everyone in the same way is almost always wrong, so I don't think you can ever truthfully say "all women" or "all men."


----------



## Deejo

You need to change your playbook ... your perspective.

Be the man worthy of a woman's commitment.

Commitment isn't a state. It's a continuum.

If a partner consistently demonstrates behavior indicating their lack of commitment, then it's time to set them free and find a new partner.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Many folks have a sort of ongoing commitment style. While some folks will commit for life through thick and thin, and only leave when it's so terrible that most would have made changes much sooner, others will commit on a daily basis. They will revisit their choices each day. They day they find too much for them to justify staying, is the day they decide to leave or cheat.


----------



## Healer

Being cheated on is a very eye opening experience. Sure there are women who will commit - or at least leave BEFORE they cheat on you. The ***** is, you never know who they are.


----------



## Rowan

Healer said:


> Being cheated on is a very eye opening experience. Sure there are women who will commit - or at least leave BEFORE they cheat on you. The ***** is, you never know who they are.


Just curious: Is it your opinion that this is an exclusively female trait?


----------



## lifeistooshort

One piece of advice is to choose a woman based on the content of her character. Too many men choose a partner based on looks without evaluating what kind of partner she'll likely make. There are usually signs if you're open to seeing them. 

And don't generalize, lest you be the victim of generalizations.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Character and looks are not mutually exclusive, but I think due to the greater number of choices a more physically attractive individual is, the greater the chance they will stray, regardless of morals. Since we are all human with weaknesses, once someone knows what those are, they can manipulate or influence decisions more favorable to them.


----------



## Deejo

Generalizations exist, because in general, people are far more similar than they are different.


----------



## JustFree

Rowan said:


> Just curious: Is it your opinion that this is an exclusively female trait?


I know it is not just a female trait for sure. And I might be generalizing. It is just I have seen so many women over the years, not just my relationships but known or have heard conversations of so many women with these fantasies as if it is a "not a big deal". I always think, would you say those words if your partner was in ear shot?


----------



## Rowan

JustFree said:


> I know it is not just a female trait for sure. And I might be generalizing. It is just I have seen so many women over the years, not just my relationships but known or have heard conversations of so many women with these fantasies as if it is a "not a big deal". I always think, would you say those words if your partner was in ear shot?


There are plenty of men who cheat, lie, and otherwise commit general asshattery, as well. And I've seen and heard a lot of "guys only" conversations and behavior that were _completely_ appalling. I don't presume that all men are like that, or that being male somehow automatically precludes the ability to keep it in one's pants.

I do, however, subscribe to the belief that individuals can be really terrible - no matter their gender. And that individuals can be really great - no matter their gender.


----------



## 2ntnuf

JustFree said:


> I know it is not just a female trait for sure. And I might be generalizing. It is just I have seen so many women over the years, not just my relationships but known or have heard conversations of so many women with these fantasies as if it is a "not a big deal". I always think, would you say those words if your partner was in ear shot?


Some folks know that there can be many choices out there in the area of partners. They have been through many sad and happy times. They have separated sex from love. They have separated love from commitment. They have separated life-long from commitment. They have separated infidelity from deal-breakers.


----------



## Healer

Rowan said:


> Just curious: Is it your opinion that this is an exclusively female trait?


Of course not.


----------



## FeministInPink

JusrFree... it sounds like you're drawing from a pretty small sample size to draw that kind of generalized conclusion. Yeah, there are some women who will never really commit... but there are plenty who will, especially for a man who treats them right.

Take me, for instance--after my marriage, I am very hesitant to commit to anyone again, because I don't want to lose the independence and the sense of self that I've worked so hard to regain. But for the right man, who respects my independence and self, and who helps that part of me flourish, who loves me and treats me right, well... he would have all of me for the rest of his life.


----------



## JustFree

FeministInPink said:


> JusrFree... it sounds like you're drawing from a pretty small sample size to draw that kind of generalized conclusion. Yeah, there are some women who will never really commit... but there are plenty who will, especially for a man who treats them right.
> 
> Take me, for instance--after my marriage, I am very hesitant to commit to anyone again, because I don't want to lose the independence and the sense of self that I've worked so hard to regain. But for the right man, who respects my independence and self, and who helps that part of me flourish, who loves me and treats me right, well... he would have all of me for the rest of his life.


I am generalizing for sure but I have seen or experienced so much of this loose sense of commitment in married people. Like I said earlier, I am still licking my wounds but am also very concerned about my future whomever.


----------



## lifeistooshort

2ntnuf said:


> Character and looks are not mutually exclusive, but I think due to the greater number of choices a more physically attractive individual is, the greater the chance they will stray, regardless of morals. Since we are all human with weaknesses, once someone knows what those are, they can manipulate or influence decisions more favorable to them.



I would argue that the more physically attractive a woman is the less likely men are to consider her character. Women do the same thing with men and money.


----------



## EleGirl

JustFree said:


> To clarify the title, I sitting across the table from a early 30 something women at a dance event. she was telling her friend that she danced with some guy (everyone dances with others, not unusual at these events), but she proceeded to describe the flutters she was having dancing with this particular person and how after she tracked him down on Facebook and was heartbroken because he did not respond. (she is married)
> I am still licking my wounds and have not dated yet but it got me think, do all women have such a carefree attitude to commitment. Do I have to be more superficial in a relationship. When I am in relationships I might look at other women but in my head I am thinking, wow she is an attractive gal, that's it. I am a guy, I like looking at pretty women as much as anyone else but would never think of even flirting. It would make me uncomfortable. I would be thinking I am doing something wrong.
> When I find the person "I think" will be good for me and me for her do I always have to be wondering, gee I wonder if she is thinking of somebody else.:scratchhead:


Using your logic..

I've been married twice. Both husband cheated... serial cheaters.

So I guess all men do not commit and are cheaters.


See how that works? Does it make sense to blame all men for what my husbands did?


----------



## JustFree

EleGirl said:


> Using your logic..
> 
> I've been married twice. Both husband cheated... serial cheaters.
> 
> So I guess all men do not commit and are cheaters.
> 
> 
> See how that works? Does it make sense to blame all men for what my husbands did?


I understand about painting with a broad brush but I was aware of the conversation this person was having and thought, if her husband were here this conversation would not be happening.
I have been married twice to serial cheaters as well, the last one was just mind boggling, hence my reluctance to date and my apprehension to a serious relationship.


----------



## EleGirl

JustFree said:


> I understand about painting with a broad brush but I was aware of the conversation this person was having and thought, if her husband were here this conversation would not be happening.


Of course that conversation would not happen if her husband were there.

Men do the same thing.

Studies on the topic show pretty consistently that men cheat a few percentage point more than women do.

There are entire industries that cater to men cheating, some legal and some illegal.

Strip clubs are one example.
Massage parlors another.
Prostitutes another.




JustFree said:


> I have been married twice to serial cheaters as well, the last one was just mind boggling, hence my reluctance to date and my apprehension to a serious relationship.


I had the same experience with 2 husbands who cheated. 

I get that you are apprehensive. But accusing all women of being like your cheating wives is just wrong.

You have a lot of healing to do. Settling this in your head on part of that healing.


----------



## JustFree

EleGirl said:


> Of course that conversation would not happen if her husband were there.
> 
> Men do the same thing.
> 
> Studies on the topic show pretty consistently that men cheat a few percentage point more than women do.
> 
> There are entire industries that cater to men cheating, some legal and some illegal.
> 
> Strip clubs are one example.
> Massage parlors another.
> Prostitutes another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same experience with 2 husbands who cheated.
> 
> I get that you are apprehensive. But accusing all women of being like your cheating wives is just wrong.
> 
> You have a lot of healing to do. Settling this in your head on part of that healing.


This is where the conflict within myself happens. I know that all women do not cheat as not all guys but the emotional side of me seems it will always have some radar up. I hate that. If I am in a committed relationship, married or not, I don't want to have those thoughts.


----------



## 2ntnuf

JustFree said:


> I understand about painting with a broad brush but I was aware of the conversation this person was having and thought, if her husband were here this conversation would not be happening.
> I have been married twice to serial cheaters as well, the last one was just mind boggling, hence my reluctance to date and my apprehension to a serious relationship.


These attacks on your character don't help?


----------



## Wolf1974

Well cheating isn't a gender issue. It's a character issue and one that falls equally among both genders.

As far as commitment. Some do and some won't. As I have aged I think I have seen that men and women look at commitment differently. Women want the commitment and put forth the effort to get it. It aligns with the early romance stage where everything is new, interesting and exciting. Men want more of the endurance commitment. They want the partner who won't bail when things get hard or stale. They want to know someone will stay in the trenches with them and work through things not turn on one another.

So I think many across both genders want commitment just look at what that means differently


----------



## Holland

You lost me when you used the word "all" to describe women.

Maybe I am instead an alien and pretty much all of my female friends and family are aliens. I am always fully committed in a relationship even to the point of remaining faithful in a long term sexless marriage. 

Unless it is casual dating then I find committing to a serious relationship easy and natural but the man has to be commit worthy.


----------



## EleGirl

Holland said:


> You lost me when you used the word "all" to describe women.
> 
> Maybe I am instead an alien and pretty much all of my female friends and family are aliens. I am always fully committed in a relationship even to the point of remaining faithful in a long term sexless marriage.
> 
> Unless it is casual dating then I find committing to a serious relationship easy and natural but the man has to be commit worthy.


Generalizations like this show a gross misunderstanding of women. Underhanded way to say that the OP's presumption is right.


"As I have aged I think I have seen that men and women look at commitment differently. Women want the commitment and put forth the effort to get it. It aligns with the early romance stage where everything is new, interesting and exciting. Men want more of the endurance commitment. They want the partner who won't bail when things get hard or stale. They want to know someone will stay in the trenches with them and work through things not turn on one another."


----------



## Revamped

I believe in healthy flirting.

I wink at the 18 yr old pizza boy when I tip him. I even get bold and tell him to come back and see me sometime!

I smile a lot at the AL cuz the ole geezer will give me a little more on the pour....

Of course, these are all very innocent things. I am definitely committed to my husband.

You heard ONE conversation off the cuff about a lady wanting to dance with some dude and you are convinced ALL women are incapable of committing.

I think you should have asked her to dance...


----------



## 2ntnuf

JustFree said:


> To clarify the title, I sitting across the table from a early 30 something women at a dance event. she was telling her friend that she danced with some guy (everyone dances with others, not unusual at these events), but she proceeded to describe the flutters she was having dancing with this particular person and how after she tracked him down on Facebook and was heartbroken because he did not respond. *(she is married)*
> I am still licking my wounds and have not dated yet but it got me think, do all women have such a carefree attitude to commitment. Do I have to be more superficial in a relationship. When I am in relationships I might look at other women but in my head I am thinking, wow she is an attractive gal, that's it. I am a guy, I like looking at pretty women as much as anyone else but would never think of even flirting. It would make me uncomfortable. I would be thinking I am doing something wrong.
> When I find the person "I think" will be good for me and me for her do I always have to be wondering, gee I wonder if she is thinking of somebody else.:scratchhead:


----------



## HeartbrokenW

My exH says he didn't cheat, but less than a month after walking away, he was living wither another woman. And about a year after the divorce was final he was remarried. 

Nah, he didn't cheat.


----------



## JustFree

The defensive posture I have been receiving is not helpful about generalizing. I am talking about my feelings of not wanting to always have radar up in my future relationships. I do not want to have to think that way but after what I have been through and not just this one conversation but so many that have always grind against what I believe to be dishonest. It IS men & women but I was describing my feelings. I do have a brain that rationalizes and I thought if people actually read the thread would have picked up on my point. 
Defenders of the self righteous position...not helpful!


----------



## EleGirl

You came here painting all women as never committing. So of course people will attempt to help you realize that it's only some women who never commit. It's not a self righteous position to point out that you are grossly over generalizing.

Now, about the way you are feeling. It's normal to have these kinds of feelings. You will have them for some time? It's a mechanism that your subconscious uses to protect you emotionally. As you get stronger emotionally, these types of thoughts will subside.


----------



## norajane

There are lots and lots of women who have been cheated on, and are now divorced as a result. They have their radar up, too. Maybe dating someone who has also been betrayed would allow both of you to let your radar down since you both know the pain of betrayal.


----------



## Jellybeans

_* Do all women just never really commit?*_

It's silly to generalize all women under one umbrella.


----------



## Wolf1974

norajane said:


> There are lots and lots of women who have been cheated on, and are now divorced as a result. They have their radar up, too. Maybe dating someone who has also been betrayed would allow both of you to let your radar down since you both know the pain of betrayal.


I know this helped me. My x and her affair, and how it happened, and how it affected my kids all wrapped up was the single worst event of my adult life. This one thing shattered me emotionally. Trying to date women who had no perspective of this is hard. If they don't want to hear much about your past then you don't even have the ability to explain why you are standoffish or don't believe in marriage much anymore or why a prenup is now the new requirement. Then you find a woman who went through what you did and you just have no need to explain much. They just get it and I found so much comfort in that understanding.


----------



## JustFree

Wolf1974 said:


> I know this helped me. My x and her affair, and how it happened, and how it affected my kids all wrapped up was the single worst event of my adult life. This one thing shattered me emotionally. Trying to date women who had no perspective of this is hard. If they don't want to hear much about your past then you don't even have the ability to explain why you are standoffish or don't believe in marriage much anymore or why a prenup is now the new requirement. Then you find a woman who went through what you did and you just have no need to explain much. They just get it and I found so much comfort in that understanding.


That's a great point. It stands to reason that if someone were in a deceitful relationship before, they have been though the mash and would have that unique perspective. They would know just how hurtful infidelity can be and they most likely came out of it a better person.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Sometimes that's a burden because the two are then scrutinizing everything each other does in a desire to never be hurt again. Basically, we have to learn to trust appropriately. We have to learn the signs that prove someone to be worth of our trust. We have to allow ourselves to be vulnerable. Otherwise, you may as well give up on the idea of a relationship. 

I guess these are just a few of the things we need to have a good relationship.


----------



## Holland

JustFree said:


> The defensive posture I have been receiving is not helpful about generalizing. I am talking about my feelings of not wanting to always have radar up in my future relationships. I do not want to have to think that way but after what I have been through and not just this one conversation but so many that have always grind against what I believe to be dishonest. It IS men & women but I was describing my feelings.* I do have a brain that rationalizes and I thought if people actually read the thread would have picked up on my point. *
> Defenders of the self righteous position...not helpful!


Yep I actually read the thread and most if not all of your comments were about ALL women. You have made huge sweeping statements and then call people self righteous, maybe the issue is on your shoulders not everyone elses.

I get it that you have been hurt but by putting all women into one category will lead to endless bitterness. Don't end up like those guys on here that hate women but also want women. There are plenty of good, great women in the big world, might be time to do some introspection, take some responsibility for where you are at in life, heal and then go back out there. The attitude you currently have will not serve you well because any self respecting woman will not have time for a man that is bitter.

Oh and in your OP you are fine with checking out women, all good and yes no big deal because you are confident that you would not take it any further. Just so you know, women also love checking out attractive men, we can even flirt some but that is the end of it. Men do not have the monopoly on living within good moral boundaries.

I am a middle aged woman and in my whole life I have ever only know two women that cheater (others may have but these are the only two I know about). One was a friend of my sisters, the other a co worker. I have also only ever know of a few men that have cheated. The world is not full of cheaters, well my world isn't but I can see that it would make life painful to have suffered this. 

Take the replies on the chin. learn. grow and most importantly be in a healthy place before putting your heart out there again.


----------



## Mr The Other

lifeistooshort said:


> One piece of advice is to choose a woman based on the content of her character. Too many men choose a partner based on looks without evaluating what kind of partner she'll likely make. There are usually signs if you're open to seeing them.
> 
> And don't generalize, lest you be the victim of generalizations.


I genuinely think people change with circumstance. I chose my partner based on character over looks. Looks would have lasted longer.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

Revamped said:


> I believe in healthy flirting.
> 
> I wink at the 18 yr old pizza boy when I tip him. I even get bold and tell him to come back and see me sometime!


Whoa, healthy flirting eh? if I was an 18 year old pizza delivery boy and I heard that from a lady, I'd definitely think she's interested in me delivering more than a pizza!

Tell me, what would you do if he came back to see you sometime, lets say, on a late night delivery just before his break?


----------

