# 180 as the WS?



## WakeUpWS (Jan 7, 2012)

I was a WH. D-Day was in April 2011 to which I confessed to my wife. The affair was short lasting two months. Most of it was EA, having sex only once toward the end. It was foolish, stupid, insane, embarrassing, shameful. Regardless the resentment I held toward my wife at the time, she did not deserve this. I am truly sorry. 

There has been NC with the OW since however, she lives in the neighborhood and we see her drive by occasionally.

We've been in MC and IC weekly since.

My wife is making an attempt to reconcile but triggers are everywhere. 

Yesterday morning, things were good. We had sex, we talked about future plans for our house.

She goes on a walk and another neighbor drives by her, no wave, just a glare, as my wife describes it, and it was a trigger. Since yesterday afternoon, my wife is on the path to divorce.

This neighbor is the next-door neighbor to the OW. This neighbor has shunned my wife, and turned a blind eye to the OW's behavior. It's terribly unjust. What I did was unjust as well.

I talked to our counselor. She said that this is normal behavior for a BS, and I need to ride it out. But she also said, that divorce should not be off the table for my wife's sake. My wife needs this option in order to feel she is making a choice to remain together, and is not bound by duty for the sake of our child to remain together.

I understand this.

I'm still not sure how to handle this.

Last night, my wife slept in the guest room. After asking her to come to our bed, was a treated to what I feel were demeaning and hurtful comments such as, "time to start thinking of other women", "you'll be fine", and "it's easier this way". I did not beg, but I did ask she pray on it.

In the last year, I have been dedicated to our R. I've done the heavy lifting, I've looked inside to find out why I did this and how I can prevent it from happening again. All of this, I am certain I understand.

And I do understand the pain I've caused her. So, yesterday was a huge shock to me. I don't understand why let it crumble now? I don't understand how it's getting worse for her.

It strikes me that for me, I need to do a 180...FOR ME. But, I do not for one second want her to think I'm giving up. I do not want to appear insensitive to her pain.

I do care and love her. I think we can have a been marriage than before because I know I can bring a better me to it.

I wish I had known about this board before my affair. I wish I could have reached out in someway for help before I did such a foolish thing. I was so broken and in pain, I could not see anything but the cowardly way out. I regret this.

I feel, while my wife should do what she needs to get better, I know her well enough to see what she is doing is similar to what I did: run away. It's not an answer and regardless the outcome of running, nobody would fault her for doing so. In my opinion, she would be finishing the destruction I have started, for short term relief.

But, since this started, I too have a new perspective: running is not the answer. The grass is not greener. Pain does dissipate.

If I could have given myself advice before making such a horribly poor decision, I would say do not run. Face your problems. This person is in your life for a good reason. Clear your perspective to see those things once again. Clean your mind of resentments.

I just wish my wife could hear me in these moments, for what my perspective is worth....


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Hi WS:

You do seem remorseful. 

Still, a 180 will really ruin things. 

You need to realize your wife has been betrayed, her foundation shaken and cracked, humiliated beyond words, hurt, scared, confused, no longer trust her own judgement, does not trust you and should not. 

A 180 will likely push her over the edge to divorce. 

The shrinks say it takes 2 to 7 years to trust a cheating spouse again. 

Also, if your wife has done research, she has likely read the studies showing that a high percentage of cheaters have serious personality disorders....like sociopathy or malignant narcissism or worse psychopathy. 

It is a scary stat? She can't trust her own judgement now so even though you may be different from the majority of cheaters, how is she to know. 

There is no way for her to know. Only time will bring her back to trust. 

The seesawing back and forth is normal. 

I wish you luck, but from my perspective the 180 would only give me a good excuse to follow through with firm divorce plans. 

I am in the exact same place as your wife, six months out. 

I am left to wonder why my husband suddenly wants me so badly, when he said so many nasty things about me to the OW, and he said many nasty things right after D day. 

I know all of it was to justify his behavior in having an affair.....Still.......


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## Honeystly (Mar 1, 2012)

I say no 180. Just be patient and kind. Keep going to MC and be honest and as understanding as you can. Imagine she probably sees you having sex with somebody else in her head ALL the time! She thinks about the sweet talks you had with somebody else... and how you spoke of her. You need to understand that. Be consistent and don't do 180. Don't let her go. Keep trying. Good luck


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## UnwarrantedParanoia (Sep 1, 2011)

Everything the above posters said is so true. Your wife needs to be reassured over and over not only that you are sorry but that you will never do it again. She is afraid of getting hurt by you again, she knows now that you are capable. Repeat to her what you said in your post: "It was foolish, stupid, insane, embarrassing, shameful. Regardless the resentment I held toward my wife at the time, she did not deserve this. I am truly sorry. There has been NC with the OW." The 180 will not work, if pushed, she will pull farther away. 
Best of luck to the both of you. She obviously loves you, if she wanted a divorce, she would already be gone.


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## WakeUpWS (Jan 7, 2012)

Thank you all for your replies.

I've been thinking about this and you are all right. No 180.

It's hard for me to feel sorry for myself since I know how I've hurt her. But 14 months out, and then snap?

I don't get it?

She says "it will be easier this way"....she keeps repeating this mantra to me.

She is where I was at before the affair. I succumbed to a fantasy in my head that leaving was a better alternative than working it out. My mantra was "I want to be happy".

The trouble is, these words she's repeating are meant to convince herself, not me.

It will not be easier! I know! I faced that dark hole over a year ago and I realized I was tearing apart my family, for what? Because I was mad?

I have spent the year understanding why I fell to such a dark place, how I could have done this.

Resentment. Anger. Cowardice.

In October 2010 we had a horrible fight ending with her yelling at me "I want a divorce". I was shattered. I was staring at the same hole I am staring at again: nothing, now what? Alone.

It broke me. I was so angry that she's use the D word in an argument that I resolved that the next time she would be served papers for her threats. Where I went wrong is to let that anger build into a resentment. She doesn't truly understand how bad that hurt me or how devastated I was. My parents were divorced. I know the tragedy and the wreckage it causes. I did not marry her with the intent of one day divorcing her. So, divorce was never on the table as leverage if angry. Neither was physically assaulting her, berating her, or lashing out while in an argument. But, dealing with the resentment of these arguments (and the Divorce one was a pivot point) was something I was afraid to deal with since if I ever brought these issues up in a different moment, she could find ten ways how I did the same thing. It never felt resolved to me. It never felt that she could take responsibility for her words or actions and how they affected me. My failing then was giving up.

I'm no angel. Never was. I know she has complaints about me. But right now, those complaints are being rewritten into history where she only sees the bad stuff. I did this when I started my affair!

Last week was a very nice week for us. Our daughter was out of town and we had four days to ourselves. One thing that's being rewritten is "we have nothing in common". My wife pulled out a picture puzzle one day and asked if I would help her. But the question wasn't "Will You" but "Would You Like" and I felt the question wasn't a test but posed as an option. She asked me three times if I would join her in the puzzle. Honestly, I don't like picture puzzles, and she rarely does them so it's not like I should understand this is a favorite pastime of hers. But I declined thinking it was something I had the option to decline.

We come to therapy last week and it's brought up. The meaning? "Can we do something together". That's what the therapist figured out. I didn't understand it as being a situation where companionship was at stake. I thought my wife was truly giving me the option to join in or not. 

But after yesterday, it's seen as just another reason why it won't work with us. We have nothing in common.

She now thinks our daughter will be okay through a divorce. I thought that too before the affair. My daughter doesn't want to deal with this. She doesn't want to talk about any of this. She wants her happy home back and I'm trying to give her that. I'm sorry I've destroyed her mother's trust.

One thing our therapist figured out about my behavior is co-dependence. However, it isn't that my wife is such that she needs to be dealt with in a co-dependent manner, it's simply a coping mechanism I've brought from childhood. My Dad was an alcoholic.

For me, co-dependence has kept me from hearing my wife's words on their own and always kept me analyzing her behavior for inconsistencies. I was never at ease if I felt my wife was upset about something. I was always afraid she would turn whatever angered her onto me. And, sometimes she would lash out even when it was unrelated to our relationship. But, I took those times personally when most have the boundaries to say "that's not my problem". I would berate myself as always being wrong. I not being good enough to make her happy. I saw myself through her eyes, but assuming the worst about myself.

I let it crumble me. I let it degrade me. But, it WAS ALL MY FAULT! I did not have the insight to know how I was crumbling. And, before I could get help, I left her and had an affair. Stupid! 

In some ways, I feel like a victim of my past but I cannot blame anyone but myself. I wish my wife could incorporate this into her story to lessen the blow. I did not have an affair because she was a bad wife. I'm sorry I found ways to blame her to justify my actions.

I am where my wife was a little over a year ago when I left the house: desperate. I know how she felt. But, she has real cause now. I didn't. I did the wrong thing and that was to run and not defend my family. Her actions now, if we do divorce will have the same effect regardless the cause.

I begged her yesterday: "I know I put that nail in the coffin, and I'm sorry! But please! You have the choice to not hammer it down!"

No, there was no 180 yesterday. It was me begging to keep my family together despite the fact I know how badly I have hurt her. I do think her pain will pass. I do think that in time, this will fade. I do accept her anger now as necessary for her to express. It hurts to hear, but I understand it. 

I just don't understand why she snapped after more than a year. She says she cannot forgive the fact that I had a PA. She can forgive the EA (which to me is more damaging). She can forgive that I've held resentments. She can forgive my non-angelic times in the past. But, she cannot forgive that I had sex (once) with another woman. To her, this is the deal breaker. But, it took a year to figure that out?

I'm so sorry for what I've done. I want my family back. I'm sorry I did not have the help before I did such an awful thing as I do now. I've appreciated my second chance with my wife but am now devastated that my second chance is being revoked.

Thank you.


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

She now thinks our daughter will be okay through a divorce. I thought that too before the affair. My daughter doesn't want to deal with this. She doesn't want to talk about any of this. 
___________________________________________________

My sons feel the same way. My sons are adults and they are having a hard time dealing with the divorce. Their method of dealing is to ignore it, don't talk about it, maybe it will just go away.

Your post are encouraging even though I rarely have those feelings about a cheater. I do think that you are understanding and feeling some of the pain that has been inflicted upon your wife and family. I think what your wife is going through is normal, it is going to take time for her to get past this. I know this must be hard for you now that you have come to the realization that you want your marriage back. You may feel helpless now, but helpless is what your wife felt when she learned of your actions. I don't know from experience but I can only imagine that R is a tough and painful long road. Don't give up, just try to be patient as your wife is desperately trying to deal with her feelings, while she is trying to figure out how she can accept and move past your actions. 
Good luck.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

WakeUpWS said:


> I'm so sorry for what I've done. I want my family back. I'm sorry I did not have the help before I did such an awful thing as I do now. I've appreciated my second chance with my wife but am now devastated that my second chance is being revoked.
> 
> Thank you.


I do so understand what your wife is going through. 

All long term marriages have rough spots. Still turning to another person of the opposite sex is not the way to solve those issues. 

I am certain your wife had issues with you, but she accepted you warts and all. 

You showed her by her actions that you wanted someone else. 

I do think she may divorce you. I am sorry. 

I feel that way sometimes to. It's not because I do not love my husband, but because I feel I can not trust him. 

How can you live with a person you can not trust. 

Your spouse is supposed to be the one person int he world you can trust to watch your back, instead a cheating spouse is stabbing you in the back. 

My husband spent money on the OW and in men's bars, while I was sitting at home watching our pennies. 

I don't have a maid, his affair partner does. I clean the house to save money. Hi affair partner is a spoiled selfish woman who has never ever worked and is spoiled by her unsuspecting husband. 

Until, recently I worked and pulled my share of the weight financially. 

Money was also a bit tight, and I am a very cautious spender, yet my husband was spending money in men's bars and on the other women. 

Put yourself in your wife shoes. 

trust takes time, 14 months is not enough time. 

It's difficult to forgive a cheating spouse. I am sorry that you had to find this out the tough way. 

I am truly trying, but when my husband says it's been six months get over it, it really makes me ever more angry and makes me think divorce is the only option. 

I love my husband and do not want a divorce. But this cheating thing is so difficult. 

Every time he says something cute or romantic to me, I know he said it to her too because I read some of the email that were forwarded to me in the mail.


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## WakeUpWS (Jan 7, 2012)

Sara8 - as a WS, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for having to deal with what is been thrust upon you - your husband's problems. I'm sorry.

I am in no way suggesting 14 months is enough time, and at no time have I said "get over it". That would be cruel of me to do so.

If I had the resources, friends, help I have now, this would not have happened. I know this will never happen again.

Not only do I have the burden of knowing my actions and the pain they caused, I watch my wife struggle with the result of my behavior. Never again do I want her to have to go through this. Never again do I want to go through this.

I have told her all of this - many times.


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## Honeystly (Mar 1, 2012)

I just posted this on another thread, but this is a timeline I picked up from another website on coping with infidelity

Q: How Long Will It Take Me To Heal From This? Submitted by Really Trying
A: There is no set time line. On the average it's 1-2 years to heal from betrayal. 3-5 years is not out of the norm. Below is a general guide, not everyone heals in the same amount of time as others, there are variables to consider in each individual's situation. It's a rollercoaster ride, emotionally and physically, but I promise you - you can and will survive. But, you will never be the same and that's not always a bad thing.

D-day to 6 months is devastation; you're done with life, in shock and sick at heart. You are raw emotionally and never knew such despair could be felt.

6-9 months are full of mood swings from "it's going to be okay" to "Why am I even trying." Your thoughts are emotion driven and not dependable.

9-12 months you can actually go about 15 minutes without thinking about "it." One morning I stepped out of the shower and realized that I hadn't thought of the affair yet. But sadly, those times were few and far between. You're still up and down emotionally.

Then at 12 months, sobbing again with the disappointment in your spouses selfishness

14 months you are able to have a heartfelt happy moment.

18 months the incredible crush of despair is gone. You wake up one morning and realize that the A was something that happened, not something that is happening.

20 months you no longer feel like your world is in danger. Trusting again, with your heart if not with your brain. Constantly questioning your own feelings but you realize it is fear stalking you now, not danger.

22 months you can see a future. You don't cry at the drop of a hat. You can watch television without falling apart at a love scene. Actually feeling almost back to your normal self. You finally loose that sense of being "outside" yourself. The phases can trick you, you think you're doing great at five weeks and then you hit the bottom of the well at 12 weeks. You can be raging at 10 months with a horrible anger that never appeared early on.


If we go with this timeline let's say, then your wife is at the mark where it all feels like s*hit again. It won't happen at this point, you need more time

Hope this helps


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

WakeUpWS said:


> Sara8 - as a WS, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for having to deal with what is been thrust upon you - your husband's problems. I'm sorry.
> 
> I am in no way suggesting 14 months is enough time, and at no time have I said "get over it". That would be cruel of me to do so.
> 
> ...


You do sound a lot more remorseful than my husband. 

A question? Have you done anything else after DDay....for example contact other woman, go to men's bars, etc?

If not, I think it will be easier for your wife to forgive you. I would.

As for the mention of the Divorce. It's likely just a way for her to feel that she has chosen you again. 

And, also a way to hurt you because she has been so hurt by your affair. 

Hang in. 

If you are not still cheating in anyway, than I think she can recover. 

Good luck you really do sound as if you understand that you made bad choices and will never do it again. 

In my case, my husband has said this, but his actions in contacting the OW even just to talk and his going to men's bars while we are trying to recover, shows me again and again that I am not enough for him.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I think what others are ignoring here is that your wife has a major trigger that she gets to see in person (the OW) all too often. Now add the fact she has an additional trigger in the OW's toxic friend. 

the real question is what to do about it?


how feasible is moving?


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## WakeUpWS (Jan 7, 2012)

This is the wife. I just came upon this on the computer and am in shock. I feel very betrayed. What my husband has forgotten to mention is all the people that were hurt by his lapse. The OW's husband killed himself over this. The OW was a friend of mine, the one who's shoulder I cried upon when my husband left. The children ours included are devastated. The affair was 3 months and it has only been thirteen months since. I did not leave in the beginning because I was in shock. We have been together over two decades. I also felt sorry for him. The day after they consummated their love her husband ruins everything by ending his life dramatically. Affairs cause real pain people! It is not all fantasy. I am still here cleaning up this mess. I do want to talk separation but his ego will not let it happen. 
As for no communication between the parties, thats a lie. She has threatened, stalked and slandered me throughout the neighborhood and I have tried to take the higher ground. It has been a heavy burden I am done carrying .


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## WakeUpWS (Jan 7, 2012)

I agree with everything my wife has written. The details are ugly. The results are ugly.

And to answer my wife: I did not come here to make myself feel better.

Thank you to everybody's input and encouragement but it means nothing if I cannot work it out with my wife.

Yes - I have suggested moving in the last six months. As my wife would counter, at first I was against the idea. I realize how trapped that made her feel. The truth is, the value of our house was just above our mortgage. Moving when this all opened up would have been a move made under extreme emotional stress. Moving itself is stressful.

And if I may remind my wife of her own words: I'd like to be "out of this" before we move from here.

And she also agreed with my sentiment: I'd rather leave this place willfully and on our terms than running from it.

But, the detail my wife added wasn't necessary to add in the sense of my original question. My original post has morphed into our story than really anything about a 180.

Again, as I acknowledged above, a 180 would be cruel. To my wife, I'm sorry I considered it because I love you and I want to be with you.

I want this to work out. 

To my wife: I do not want for a second for you to think I could care less about you. I came here for help from others. I came here (and have talked to our family and friends) because I need help. I am reaching out for support.

You want to know what's different? How I changed? THIS IS HOW! I'm laying everything out in the open, to the world, to our family and friends, and asking for help. I did not do this before the affair. And as I said earlier, just because you can't hear me pray, I am. I pray for the blessing of having you in my life, even through all of this. I am blessed. I am blessed for our daughter, our life, the forgiveness you've given me to date.

You've displayed God's grace through all of this. You have taken the high road. There's a lot to admire about you. You've been handed a POS situation and from all I've read here, you've handled it as well as could be expected.

I am not upset you snooped on my computer and found this. But as you can see, the login is gone (even you knew the password - it's still the same but only use when installing software now), and I'm hiding nothing.

Please read others' posts here. They have helped me. I have read stories worse than ours, I have read of the pain of other betrayed spouses. It helps my resolve to never do this again to read others' stories.


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## MainMan#6 (Apr 28, 2012)

Man I hope you guys can work this out. WakeUp, you already know what you did was wrong and I believe you are remorseful. What that being said your wife is going through hell. The affair may have been over a year ago but she still has to deal with it. The neighborhood will not let her forget the A. I am praying for you guys.

Best of luck


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## Honeystly (Mar 1, 2012)

Best of luck guys. My husband left for his affair partner 4 months ago, and it is the most devastating pain I have ever felt. My two little babies are the victims as well. Believe me, the option of D is absolutely horrible. WakeUpWS it won't be easy, but you owe your wife a LOT. Lady wife: hold on, don't let go, it's no better on the other side... believe me


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

WS and BS:

I do hope you two work it out. 

BS your husband appears to be a lot more remorseful than mine and is accepting blame.

After D Day my husband accused me of being boring and blamed everything on me. His a affair partner also stalked me prior to them starting their affair and after. She also spread rumors that they were still together when it was not true .
Your husband can't help it the the OW's husband committed suicide. 

In your case though I understand you had a double betrayal because the OW was a friend. 

Still, be angry at her for the betrayal. I hope she has begged your forgiveness. 

I have never had an affair and when single I never dated married men. It was just out of the question. 

Your husband does sound remorseful and at least one second chance is worth a try. 

If you don't want to give him the second chance, let him go, don't drag it on. 

I am on your side as a betrayed spouse I feel your pain. 

I was trying to work things out with my husband but he is not as remorseful as yours. So, I think I need to move on.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WakeUpWS (Jan 7, 2012)

Honeystly said:


> I just posted this on another thread, but this is a timeline I picked up from another website on coping with infidelity
> 
> Q: How Long Will It Take Me To Heal From This? Submitted by Really Trying
> A: There is no set time line. On the average it's 1-2 years to heal from betrayal. 3-5 years is not out of the norm. Below is a general guide, not everyone heals in the same amount of time as others, there are variables to consider in each individual's situation. It's a rollercoaster ride, emotionally and physically, but I promise you - you can and will survive. But, you will never be the same and that's not always a bad thing.
> ...


It has! Thank you.

Thank you for posting this. If there's a light at the end of the tunnel for my wife, it was this post. She knows now she's not alone. Thank you.

We talked after reading through this post again. I do not know if she wants to separate or not, but the anger has subsided and we're talking respectfully to each other now.

I asked her if she wanted to go on a walk last night. She said yes and she, our daughter, and I had a nice time. I'm not really one for enjoying physical activity just for the sake of physical activity - but exploring new places where you just so happen to have to walk is fun for me. So, we went to a trail we'd never been before and it was a nice time. It did break the tension. And I hope, give some sign to my wife that what we each want isn't so different or incompatible. A lot of our issues seems to revolve around miscommunication.

It's not that neither of us communicate so poorly or are deliberately obtuse, but we often misunderstand each other's real intent. I don't like walking, but I do like exploring. I don't like puzzles, but I do like spending time with my wife doing trivial things. My wife likes to work together when cleaning - for me that means we split up, address separate rooms, and get it done more quickly. For her, she likes to have everyone in the same space working together. The subtle difference in what we each mean by "together" isn't subtle after all! This is something we discussed last night as result of coming here.

Issues like this have been what our MC has helped us recognize. It was very hopeful that we have, on our own, broken down another barrier by simply redefining "together".

This all said, she did sleep in the guest room last night. I still don't know where she is on separating.

But, I know God answered my prayers at least in part. I am grateful and appreciative.


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## Honeystly (Mar 1, 2012)

I'm so glad it helped!!!!!!! My ex cheated on me, left me and he's still with OW and I know that being separated and on the way to divorce should be the last and honestly (in my opinion) the worst and most painful option. At least your lady wife has options, and THAT is important. Good luck to you guys, I hope it works out for your sake and for the sake of the beautiful child you two have


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