# Update



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

A while back I had a thread about the emotional issues in my marriage. My husband wasn't putting effort into meeting my needs, even though I was meeting his. He promised that things would change. 

And they did...sort of. The quantity of what he did increased. I got little things each week, but it didn't feel as if he was genuinely trying to work at it. He'd come home, we'd either eat and wait for yoga to start, or we'd go to the gym and then eat when we got home. We'd watch t.v. and then go to bed. This was our cycle for quite some time. 

Well, I got really tired of giving without getting true effort in return, so I decided to stop. Massages are things he really likes, and I was giving him one about three times a week. Once I stopped, I had to remind him to do the weekly thing for me, or else it wouldn't get done. 

Recently we talked. It was actually a great talk. I was terrified of bringing some things up, not because I thought he'd be mad, but because I was worried about how he would feel. Three nights in a row I'd had dreams about being with three different men that I know, a different man each dream. In these dreams I was happy and fulfilled, two things I don't get consistently in my marriage. 

My husband isn't abusive or mean, just...distant. He had a _terrible_ example of what marriage should be in his parents. My parents were always openly affectionate with each other. His parents were openly argumentative, and his father had a tendency to be downright mean to my husband's mother. Not abusive, just mean. There were good times between them as well, but they weren't openly affectionate or romantic so my husband saw the negative much more than the positive. He _did_ learn that a good husband works hard to provide for his family, and also spends quality time with them making memories. 

My family was vastly different. My mom and dad worked hard too, and we made memories through doing things together too, but they were also affectionate to each and other and to my brother and I. My dad was not emotionally distant. He was emotionally invested in our lives, and when I was 16 took me out on my first date to show me how a guy should treat me. 

So it's not surprising that I am the more romantic of the two of us, and my husband is the hard worker who just isn't outwardly emotionally invested in our relationship. 

In our talk we discussed that, and I outright asked him if he wanted to be with me, or if he thought he would be happier with someone else. I told him about the dreams I had had, and he admitted to having thought that he might be happier with someone else, and that he thought I might be happier with someone else as well. I told him that, even though I had dreams of myself in relationships with three men I knew, I did not feel attraction or a desire to be with any of them, which is true. I also told him that I really don't want to seek out a new relationship. The newness of another relationship is appealing, but is also stressful to think about. We considered the pros and cons of divorcing and trying to find new people to date, and we agreed that even though our initial reaction is excitement, when we think of starting over in a new relationship, we just think it would be stressful. 

I told him I did not want to be with anyone else. Even though we have a big issue we need to sort through, this really is our only issue. Sexually we're very compatible, spiritually we're very compatible, morally we're very compatible, we share the same political beliefs...most importantly, I really do love him. And I believe he loves me. We've just had very different family experiences, and he's turning out to be a lot like his father. 

So, I asked him what he needed from me to feel happy and fulfilled as a husband. Sex is a big one, but that hasn't been much of an issue. The frequency has decreased, but it's been gradually increasing as I deal with my personal issues. I tend to be over sensitive when I'm disappointed, and I let things affect me too much. I've been working on that, and it has helped. I know that sex is vital to a marriage, and I know my husband will be more likely to feel loved if I show love. And sex definitely increases the feeling of intimacy between us, which helps to decrease the feeling of distance. 

He also said that quality time is big for him. (No surprise.) He wants us to do things outside of the home more often; go bowling, go to the gym, take yoga, etc. I told him that I just need to be pursued; I need to feel desirable. Getting flowers makes me feel special; I also love books, and getting books from him helps me to feel like he's investing in things that matter to me. I really could care less about jewelry or chocolates. Going on dates makes me feel desirable; like even though we're married, he still wants to make me happy, and he still wants to know me even more intimately. More than anything, it shows his interest in the success of the relationship. Physical affection is probably one of the biggest things, followed by verbal affirmation. 

Romance for now is more on hold. Although these things effect the romantic atmosphere in a positive way, they're not so much "romantic" in my opinion. But I'd rather feel desirable and feel pursued right now. 

We agreed that these things were understandable and reasonable, and we each agreed to put the other first. Tonight, he's asked me on a date. We're going bowling. He's been much more physically affectionate with me in the last few days, and last night he bought me some beautiful glass plates and a new teapot for my Christmas tea party tomorrow. I didn't ask him to do this. He'd heard me talking about needing some plates, and just bought them at the store while we were shopping. That meant a lot.  I'm hoping that this really is a change. We both got to open up and admit to our true feelings, but we also saw that we really don't want to leave each other. I know that things won't change entirely overnight. Baby steps forward are better than no steps at all, or going backward.

Anyway, just thought I'd give an update.


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

Always refreshing to hear positives or people moving in a good direction, gives us others hope. Haven't read any of your back story, did you do this on your own, or was MC involved?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks.  We did it on our own, but if problems get worse we'll definitely do MC.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

I really enjoyed reading your post. 

Some of answers/insights you both gave about your needs sounded like they were straight from the pages of His needs/Her needs.

Have either of you read that book?


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm sure you've given it much though, but let me ask, is it wise for you two to have a child right now? 

I'm certainly routing for you but I really hope you've got things sorted out amongst yourselves first. Or at least fairly well. I didn't necessarily get that feeling in this post, but only you can tell.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

CanadianGuy said:


> I really enjoyed reading your post.
> 
> Some of answers/insights you both gave about your needs sounded like they were straight from the pages of His needs/Her needs.
> 
> Have either of you read that book?


No, we haven't. We...well, we tried two marriage help books like that in the first year or two of our marriage and...I was the only one who actually tried to apply the principles. One of the books we read, "Cracking the Communication Code" was definitely not a best seller with us. It focused far too much on the things wives "do wrong", and basically said that so long as a wife provides her husband what he needs, he _will_ provide what she needs as well. I didn't agree with that, as it wasn't my experience at all. 

The other book we tried was The Five Love Languages. It definitely helped us identify what our love languages are, but I was the only one who tried to apply the principles. My husband just sort of did the basics and expected that to fulfill me. Sorry, but a few kisses throughout the day aren't enough to make me feel loved...And he only put 100% effort into showing me physical affection when he wanted sex. And as far as verbal affirmation...he thought "I love you" and "you're beautiful" were all I needed to hear. 

I've been hesitant to get another marital help book. But I have heard a lot of good things about that book, so maybe it's time to buck up and get it...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

CharlieParker said:


> I'm sure you've given it much though, but let me ask, is it wise for you two to have a child right now?
> 
> I'm certainly routing for you but I really hope you've got things sorted out amongst yourselves first. Or at least fairly well. I didn't necessarily get that feeling in this post, but only you can tell.


Honestly, no. It sucks to have to say it, and we talked about that in our talk too. I thought that if we tried to have a kid, he might feel more urgency in doing his part, but things got worse. I intentionally avoided sex during the time when I was ovulating for that very reason. Which sucks more than anything, because I so very badly want to have a baby. But I don't want to bring a kid into a relationship with this kind of an issue. And it angers me a bit that I have to forgo on such a big desire just because my husband has such an issue meeting his wife's needs.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Wow, you are wise beyond your years. But your youth also means you have time. 

Do get His Needs/Her Needs, IIRC there are couples exercises you can do without him reading it.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

C2W you are beginning to sound quite frustrated with your relationship issues. 

You have pointed out your needs and he seems to be doing the bare minimum to get by and it's just not working for you as they say. 

If you intentionally avoided sex during ovulation then you are unsure of the safety/security of this marriage for children. If your needs are not getting met now it's almost a sure bet that when children are born you will completely ignore his needs. I wonder if he knows that ( ? ) 

You will of course have someone in the world who needs you more than anything.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

CharlieParker said:


> Wow, you are wise beyond your years. But your youth also means you have time.


Thanks. It's not fun in these situations but...necessary.



CharlieParker said:


> No get His Needs/Her Needs, IIRC there are couples exercises you can do without him reading it.


Okay. That sounds good...and it's not expensive. I looked it up online and it's barely eight bucks, so that's another great incentive.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

CanadianGuy said:


> C2W you are beginning to sound quite frustrated with your relationship issues.


It is frustrating to go back and forth between the same issue. But, we've both made mistakes and it's lead to us being where we're at today.



CanadianGuy said:


> ]You have pointed out your needs and he seems to be doing the bare minimum to get by and it's just not working for you as they say.
> 
> If you intentionally avoided sex during ovulation then you are unsure of the safety/security of this marriage for children. If your needs are not getting met now it's almost a sure bet that when children are born you will completely ignore his needs. I wonder if he knows that ( ? )


He does. I outright told him that if he can't/won't meet my needs now, when life is less busy and there's not a baby to take up the majority of our free time, then he definitely won't try at all when we have a kid.



> You will of course have someone in the world who needs you more than anything.


Yeah...and I definitely want that, but my husband would still be number one in my life and I want him to need me too. Which he does, but he's just terrible at expressing it. Like I said, his father was a p*iss poor example of a good husband.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm sad to read this C2W, because I remember your post about having a baby and how excited you were. 

I'm also sad because I just don't get a good feeling about your marriage from what you wrote. It's worrying that you don't feel your needs are being met in what is (forgive me if I'm wrong here) quite a young marriage. 

And I feel for your husband too, because I think your expectations are very high. My love languages are physical touch and words of affirmation too, and a few kisses/touches throughout the day plus hearing 'I love you' and 'you're beautiful' are absolutely enough. 

If you need more than that to feel loved now, having a baby is a terrible idea. I have two children who are getting older and less needy now, but my husband and I can still only snatch time here and there and regular yoga together plus dates are just out of the question. 

Have you been to marriage counselling? If you're discussing divorce and if relationships with other people are appealing to both of you it sounds like your marriage is in real trouble. I can honestly say, even in the very worst times with my husband, times when I didn't even feel like I loved him anymore, I never thought about being in a relationship with anyone else. It was him or no-one for me.

Wishing you all the best.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Oh, and I wouldn't be tracing all this back to his father necessarily. My husband didn't see his father at all really, his mother was divorced twice and he had terrible examples of relationships. It doesn't stop him showing me he loves me though, probably because we have the same top love language (physical touch).

Your husband could very well be fine with someone with compatible love languages.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Lyris said:


> I'm sad to read this C2W, because I remember your post about having a baby and how excited you were.
> 
> I'm also sad because I just don't get a good feeling about your marriage from what you wrote. It's worrying that you don't feel your needs are being met in what is (forgive me if I'm wrong here) quite a young marriage.


It is a young marriage. We've been married for three years and four months.



> And I feel for your husband too, because I think your expectations are very high. My love languages are physical touch and words of affirmation too, and a few kisses/touches throughout the day plus hearing 'I love you' and 'you're beautiful' are absolutely enough.


Well, I'm not you. It's great that that would be enough for you, but I was raised in an incredibly affectionate family. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for what I get considering his mother gets much, much less from his father. He has made big strides from where he used to be. And I have acknowledged that in our discussions. But no, it isn't enough for me to feel fulfilled. 

And as I said before, my husband has known my expectations for a long time...since our dating relationship. My expectations haven't changed since then, and he chose to stay with me. Moreover, her chose to propose so it's not like I rose my standards after we married.



> If you need more than that to feel loved now, having a baby is a terrible idea. I have two children who are getting older and less needy now, but my husband and I can still only snatch time here and there and regular yoga together plus dates are just out of the question.


Hence, why I said it wasn't a good decision.



> Have you been to marriage counselling? If you're discussing divorce and if relationships with other people are appealing to both of you it sounds like your marriage is in real trouble. I can honestly say, even in the very worst times with my husband, times when I didn't even feel like I loved him anymore, I never thought about being in a relationship with anyone else. It was him or no-one for me.


You obviously did NOT read the entire post. In our discussion we admitted to having temporary and sporadic feelings of _maybe_ wanting out of our relationship, but when we were honest and asked each other if that's what we wanted, _neither_ of us wanted out of this marriage. The grass always seems greener on the other side, but when we sat and thought about what divorce would mean, we realized that being without each other would be far worse than trying to start again with someone new. 

Neither one of us truly wants out. But we needed to have the discussion of potential divorce. I needed to hear from him what his exact feelings are, and it actually helped quite a bit. His childhood was difficult, his father had an anger issue, and so he learned to shutdown his negative emotions. So when we have had discussions before, he's always come across of disinterested in the relationship, when in reality, he just doesn't know how to deal with or process negative feelings. He just ignores them and pretends they don't exist. Discussing divorce was necessary to hear his real feelings, for me and for him. And when we sifted through the disappointment we saw that we really do love each other, and don't want to be with anyone else.

Our parents told us that the key to a successful marriage is to never even consider divorce. However, that caused even more problems because it made us both feel trapped when things got bad, and it made not so serious things seem worse than they were. Having this discussion, admitting temporary unhappiness on both sides, giving each other the chance of leaving but _choosing_ to stay, instead of feeling obligated to stay, was cathartic for the both of us. And he actually showed his emotions and cried, and instead of being vocally angry and upset, I controlled myself and refrained from criticism and judgment. So, there's no reason "to be sad" for us. Perhaps our methods wouldn't work for you, but this was necessary for us.



> Wishing you all the best.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Lyris said:


> Oh, and I wouldn't be tracing all this back to his father necessarily. My husband didn't see his father at all really, his mother was divorced twice and he had terrible examples of relationships. It doesn't stop him showing me he loves me though, probably because we have the same top love language (physical touch).
> 
> Your husband could very well be fine with someone with compatible love languages.


Again, we aren't you. Everyone responds to things differently, and looking at how his father behaves and the issues my husband has had, it makes sense that this is our biggest issue. 

And a couple does NOT need to have the same love languages to have a successful marriage. The whole purpose of understanding love languages is to learn how to show love to our spouse in a way they will understand it, rather than in the ways we would understand. But thanks for the thoughts anyway.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Okay, clearly you were annoyed by my post. I realise you're not me, but that's kind of the point of posting on boards like this; you get others' perspectives and experiences.

I don't think marriage is hard work if you're basically compatible. It certainly shouldn't be so difficult three years in with no children. 

While it's true that your husband chose to propose, knowing your requirements, you also chose to accept, knowing the difficulty he was going to have fulfilling them. 

I did feel sad when I read your post because of your happy baby post. Since that also annoyed you, I'll retract it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Lyris said:


> Okay, clearly you were annoyed by my post. I realise you're not me, but that's kind of the point of posting on boards like this; you get others' perspectives and experiences.


Your post annoyed me, yes. I didn't care for your implication that my husband would be happier if he wasn't with me.



> I don't think marriage is hard work if you're basically compatible. It certainly shouldn't be so difficult three years in with no children.


I think that any marriage will always need work, just like anything else in life. Friendships take work. Family relationships take work. Co-worker relationships take work. Marriage, yes, takes work. I believe that any couple can have a successful relationship so long as they truly love each other, and they're willing to be selfless. Sometimes it takes more work than it does at other times, but that doesn't mean the two people are wrong for each other. And I think it's a bit naive to think that compatibility alone will determine whether a marriage will be successful. 



> While it's true that your husband chose to propose, knowing your requirements, you also chose to accept, knowing the difficulty he was going to have fulfilling them.


I did accept, because I loved him. And I would accept again today, because I still love him. Our marriage _is worth_ the work it's likely going to take, and we both agree. 



> I did feel sad when I read your post because of your happy baby post. Since that also annoyed you, I'll retract it.


You don't need to retract it. I just don't agree with what you're saying.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Just for clarification, if it was poorly shown in my OP, I feel more positively about the direction our marriage is going in. While the conversation was uncomfortable and difficult to get through, I think because we both had the chance to leave but chose to stay, we're in a much better place. We both want to be in this relationship, and we said that to each other. 

And no, I don't think that because a specific issue takes work that it suddenly means we're wrong for each other. I really do think that my father-in-law was a horrible example and is _a_ reason for my husband's difficulty in expressing his emotions. Seeing that now has also lessened my frustration because I know my husband isn't just being lazy.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

_His Needs, Her Needs_ came yesterday. We went through the first two chapters last night. Hubby said he really, really liked it so far.  We also know each other's 5 most basic needs, and already today he's been meeting my top one: admiration. He sent me three loving text messages that absolutely made me ecstatic. 

And this Friday we're going to see The Hobbit, which will meet his number one need and my fourth.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I think it's really a good thing that you and your husband can be so openly honest with each other the way you have, digging deep into your issues and coming out the other side, realizing THIS is where you want to stay, commit to each other and go forward..the texts, the dates.. putting actions behind the desires. 



> *Created2write said:* And I think it's a bit naive to think that compatibility alone will determine whether a marriage will be successful


I'm one of those who speaks a good deal on this Compatibility thing (thread below).... I do feel it allows our marital days to somehow flow smoother, naturally somehow ....when we are in sinc in those things that mean the most to us in this world..... 

But .....this in no way means - a marriage can't rise above that.....true...when were different in some areas... a little bonking of the mindsets...it does TAKE WORK....alot more work... grueling work at times, hard talks like you had with your husband will come...... but those who choose to







....put their...







's to the task... hold on for the ride...too stubborn to let go.. will make it through...Like being tested by FIRE, it makes a couple *stronger*. 

People can love so much they give unselfishly against their natures for their spouses... but yet....sometimes it will FEEL like work to them. This part can be difficult... as ....can we accept their words, gifts, time.....knowing they may just be pushing themselves on our behalf... even if they are not overwhelmingly feeling the emotions behind the actions? 

Your husbands nature or nurture - his Dad's genes, His dad's example/ upbringing ... likely both play some part here... just as you are alot like your biological parents as well... genes and upbringing .... 

I didn't have the type of loving childhood you had Created2Write.... sounds wonderful ~ your parents relationship / family life...an example to behold....but yet I dared dream for that sort of life... with a good attentive man /close knit family, the whole package.....my husband helped me Love myself.. and be a better person... I trust you can have such an influence on your husband as well... I get where you are coming from. 

It'll take a change in mindset in some ways, a tweaking on both your parts towards each other ...meeting somewhere in the middle ....feeling the Joy from each other so strong, you'll both want to keep revisiting that place... making each other happy... which breeds more "giving". 

I wish you both well on this journey Created2Write !


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> My husband just sort of did the basics and expected that to fulfill me. Sorry, but a few kisses throughout the day aren't enough to make me feel loved...he thought "I love you" and "you're beautiful" were all I needed to hear.


How much affirmation do you believe will fill you up? Are you looking for caresses through out the day? Hugs? Deep, romantic kisses? Extensive verbal and written declarations of love?




Created2Write said:


> ...And he only put 100% effort into showing me physical affection when he wanted sex. And as far as verbal affirmation...


Is he withdrawing all affection during days when he's not trying to advance toward sex, or just diminishing it?

If left to his own devices what does your husband consider to be an appropriate level of affection?



Created2Write said:


> It's great that that would be enough for you, but I was raised in an incredibly affectionate family.



Can you give us some insight into what your family was like? What actions constitute "incredibly affectionate"? I know that my best friend in the world came from a family he'd describe that way, lots of verbal expression, hugs, affectionate touch, emotional openness. Is that what you mean?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C2,
You have great values and a healthy sense of self worth. The balance between his needs and yours seems just right. 

It is good that you understand his family background and just as important that you choose not to let it hold you or him hostage to child hood patterns. 

You are a young version of SA. He is a lucky man.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think it's really a good thing that you and your husband can be so openly honest with each other the way you have, digging deep into your issues and coming out the other side, realizing THIS is where you want to stay, commit to each other and go forward..the texts, the dates.. putting actions behind the desires.


Interestingly enough, my top 5 needs are as follows:

1. Admiration
2. Affection
3. Honesty and Openness
4. Recreational Companionship
5. Sexual Fulfillment

Husband's are:

1. Recreational Companionship
2. Sexual Fulfillment
3. Physical Attractiveness
4. Honesty and Openness
5. Domestic Fulfillment

The Five Love Languages helped us get a general idea of how to meet each other's needs, but this new book is really helping us find the details...we're able to prioritize in more detail, which has made things so much easier. 



> I'm one of those who speaks a good deal on this Compatibility thing (thread below).... I do feel it allows our marital days to somehow flow smoother, naturally somehow ....when we are in sinc in those things that mean the most to us in this world.....


I agree. I believe that two people who want to marry should discuss religious and political beliefs, moral standards, expectations in life, children, careers, etc. long before they say their vows. Compatibility is that way is, I do believe, relatively essential to a smoother marriage.

Emotionally, however, I don't think they need to be entirely compatible. My needs don't have to be the same as his for us to have a healthy marriage. We _do_ need to be willing to learn how to meet each other's needs, but we don't have to have the same needs, is more what I meant. 



> But .....this in no way means - a marriage can't rise above that.....true...when were different in some areas... a little bonking of the mindsets...it does TAKE WORK....alot more work... grueling work at times, hard talks like you had with your husband will come...... but those who choose to
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, and I love the way you put that. 



> People can love so much they give unselfishly against their natures for their spouses... but yet....sometimes it will FEEL like work to them. This part can be difficult... as ....can we accept their words, gifts, time.....knowing they may just be pushing themselves on our behalf... even if they are not overwhelmingly feeling the emotions behind the actions?
> 
> Your husbands nature or nurture - his Dad's genes, His dad's example/ upbringing ... likely both play some part here... just as you are alot like your biological parents as well... genes and upbringing ....
> 
> I didn't have the type of loving childhood you had Created2Write.... sounds wonderful ~ your parents relationship / family life...an example to behold....but yet I dared dream for that sort of life... with a good attentive man /close knit family, the whole package.....my husband helped me Love myself.. and be a better person... I trust you can have such an influence on your husband as well... I get where you are coming from.


Thanks.  I'm learning that my husband has a tendency to unintentionally shut me out when he feels a negative response from me on something. His father used to lash out and yell, and sometimes would get unnecessarily physical(pushing him up against the wall, etc.). In order to not go crazy or lash back at his dad, he shut down his negative emotions. However, now he's hyper-sensitive to anything negative unless I approach things in a gentle way, without condemnation or judgment. 

My dad had an anger problem too, but it was never taken out on me or my brother, so I don't relate to my husband's experience. But I can understand how his has shaped him, and that has helped me in the last few weeks.



> It'll take a change in mindset in some ways, a tweaking on both your parts towards each other ...meeting somewhere in the middle ....feeling the Joy from each other so strong, you'll both want to keep revisiting that place... making each other happy... which breeds more "giving".
> 
> I wish you both well on this journey Created2Write !


Thank so much SA.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

jaquen said:


> How much affirmation do you believe will fill you up? Are you looking for caresses through out the day? Hugs? Deep, romantic kisses? Extensive verbal and written declarations of love?


Yes on most counts. _Extensive_ isn't the word I would use to describe it. He works long shifts; he's at work before 6:30 and lately hasn't been home until after 5:00pm. However, he comes home for lunch and yes, when I make him lunch and have it ready for him I'd like a big hug, a romantic kiss, and something sweet said to me. I'd like a text or two sent to me throughout the day to express his love for me, that he misses me, etc. And then when he gets home, I'd like us to spend time together watching something, or reading something, talking, going to Yoga, exercising together, going on a date(depending on what day it is these activities will change...and I don't need all of them in one day...that would be next to impossible, but you know...one or two a day)and then I'd like to spend a good fifteen to twenty minutes just cuddling...

And then I want sex. If this happened every day, I would be the happiest woman in the world. And, of course, every now and then getting flowers with a card, or a love note as something special.



> Is he withdrawing all affection during days when he's not trying to advance toward sex, or just diminishing it?


Well, kind of both. Before the book came his affection was really just diminishing to one thing he knew I liked; I love having my hair played with, and he usually did that once a day. But I also love hugs and kisses, and aside from a quick hug and kiss in the morning, there wasn't any affection of that kind unless it lead to making out, which usually lead to sex. 

Physical touch is something I crave often, and in more than one way. That was definitely not something I was getting. Since the book came though, it's been increasing.



> If left to his own devices what does your husband consider to be an appropriate level of affection?


That's a good question. Honestly, so long as we had sex every other day, I don't know that he would do more than one hug and kiss a day, and then sometimes play with my hair. So, not much. 



> Can you give us some insight into what your family was like? What actions constitute "incredibly affectionate"? I know that my best friend in the world came from a family he'd describe that way, lots of verbal expression, hugs, affectionate touch, emotional openness. Is that what you mean?


Yes. My mom and dad would tell my brother they loved us _often_. If I got up to get a glass of water in the kitchen and we were watching a movie, my dad would always take his pointer finger and tap on his cheek, indicating that he wanted a kiss. I'd always give him one, and then I'd get one back. My mom and I would cuddle when we watched movies. We said "I love you" all the time; at the end of every phone call, when my mom left for work in the morning, when she got home, when we went to bed again...My dad would give me hugs throughout the day, and would take me and my brother to lunch a lot. My dad and I would cuddle once a week, and he'd play with my hair or give me a shoulder massage. 

Yeah, I'd say we were incredibly affectionate.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> C2,
> You have great values and a healthy sense of self worth. The balance between his needs and yours seems just right.
> 
> It is good that you understand his family background and just as important that you choose not to let it hold you or him hostage to child hood patterns.
> ...


Thanks.  I've learned a lot from SA and many other women here, and the men as well. I've learned that I can't expect my husband to change quickly, and even though three years seems like a long time, he's been this way _much_ longer than three years. It's difficult to change childhood patterns. The good thing is that he wants to learn how to show me affection and meet my needs, so as long as he is willing to learn, I need to be supportive and patient. 

It's been a good couple of days. We're on chapter 5 in _His Needs, Her Needs_. He loves this book, and I do too. Yesterday was _fantastic_. He sent me sweet texts, we had a "spicy" lunch together(and the food wasn't what was spicy...  ), we cuddled when he got home for a good twenty minutes, and had some awesome sex last night. His account in my Love Bank, as the author puts it, is definitely getting some grand deposits.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lyris, 
What would you prefer, a marriage where you are highly compatible, and have a stable 5-7 on the happiness scale. 

Or a marriage where you have some real, genuine, trait matches that are incredible and some core trait incompatibilities. With the final result being a lot of days that are 8-10 and a day or two a month where you at at each others throats - and feel like a 2-3, sad, angry, battle fatigued?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Created2Write said:


> *I love having my hair played with*, and he usually did that once a day.










Oh I had to laugh reading this....you do sound like a younger version of me.....although I have







at the top of my list (ha ha)...

Though back in the day.... I didn't... but THIS...what you crave here ....I've loved / enjoyed since we met 31 yrs ago...it's one of my "highs"...why I've always felt especially loved...* those fingers through the hair* ~ every movie we've ever watched ~ my head on has lap/ stomach, leaning into him....he'd do this for hours ~ it came natural to him though, he's a born toucher... never tires of it. 



> Physical touch is something I crave often, and in more than one way. That was definitely not something I was getting. *Since the book came though, it's been increasing*.


 :smthumbup: That's great to hear ! It's funny -you have sex as #5 but high in physical touch... I was always physical touch too, as described above...wanted my back scratched like every night too....but it seemed I was oblivious to craving sex (I can hardly understand this looking back!)... other than I was getting so much physical touch in these other ways...I felt my cup running over /fulfilled ..... BUT HE WASN'T! 

....and like we were... your husband has Sex higher..at least Yours has made this known to you...(my husband avoided burdening me with his true wants).....I used to say to him.... "Do you want me to scratch your back?" - wanting to give back - he would always say NO... never once did he say ...."No, but you can scratch here baby" & guide my hand... Hard for me to understand that. 

Other than to say.... Good for the 2 of you....It's a Blessing you & husband at least are upfront & aware of what each others deep desires & wants are - with the "*HIS Needs/ HER Needs*" leading you .....never read that one - I guess that's where you get this breakdown of needs (a little different than the love languages book). I googled - I see the book has 10 emotional needs listed....



> *His Needs/ Her Needs ~ 10 Emotional needs*:
> 
> *1.* Admiration
> *2.* Affection
> ...





> My mom and dad would tell my brother they loved us _often_. If I got up to get a glass of water in the kitchen and we were watching a movie, my dad would always take his pointer finger and tap on his cheek, indicating that he wanted a kiss. I'd always give him one, and then I'd get one back. My mom and I would cuddle when we watched movies. We said "I love you" all the time; at the end of every phone call, when my mom left for work in the morning, when she got home, when we went to bed again...My dad would give me hugs throughout the day, and would take me and my brother to lunch a lot. My dad and I would cuddle once a week, and he'd play with my hair or give me a shoulder massage.


 This sounds ALOT like our family. Though I didn't have this experience growing up (Dad & step Mom lovey dovey with each other but I was left to myself)... nor did my husband -great family but NOT openly expressive - more guarded/ private..... so it's something we've built together.... As any new couple can make their own way.

We openly argue/ jokingly banter and yell too though amidst all that affectionate







's & lovin' ...husband cuddles up watching movies with the kids. It's very sweet... I think me & the daughter both want DAD. 



> we cuddled when he got home for a good twenty minutes, and had some awesome sex last night. His account in my Love Bank, as the author puts it, is definitely getting some grand deposits.


 Awesome !


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Yes on most counts. _Extensive_ isn't the word I would use to describe it. He works long shifts; he's at work before 6:30 and lately hasn't been home until after 5:00pm. However, he comes home for lunch and yes, when I make him lunch and have it ready for him I'd like a big hug, a romantic kiss, and something sweet said to me. I'd like a text or two sent to me throughout the day to express his love for me, that he misses me, etc. And then when he gets home, I'd like us to spend time together watching something, or reading something, talking, going to Yoga, exercising together, going on a date(depending on what day it is these activities will change...and I don't need all of them in one day...that would be next to impossible, but you know...one or two a day)and then I'd like to spend a good fifteen to twenty minutes just cuddling...


It's incredible how much you are like my wife. The difference is that she didn't come from an affectionate household, and wasn't particularly affectionate until well into her 20's after we fell in love and had been together for awhile. It took her a good deal of time to find her true self, but she craves affection the way you do.

She could have written much of the above.

I'm definitely far more affectionate than your husband, and even a lot of men, but not as affectionate as my wife. I feel that she has a near endless threshhold for affection, while I definitely have my limits. T


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

C2W, it sounds like you two do genuinely love each other and may be able to make progress. 

I'm reading between the lines here, and feel free to take or leave whatever I've written....

I caught two things that you *may* be doing that could be harming your relationship. It seems like you have some recognition of them at some level, but maybe not from *his* perspective.

1. You said how you "refrained from criticizing" during your talk. Criticism and blame the THE #1 marriage breaker, in my opinion. If you're finding yourself wanting to criticize frequently, it may be worthwhile to examine your standards. They're valid just the way they are, but that doesn't mean they are beneficial to your marriage. As you said, your childhood was very different than his. Just because you feel yours was superior doesn't mean "he's entitled to do things your way." In fact, because they were so different, he's already out of his comfort zone if he's not doing things the way his dad did. Are you willing to get out of your comfort zone to accept him as he is? I get the feeling that he doesn't feel like he measures up to your standards, and if this is true, your marriage will suffer horribly if you don't give him frequent reminders that he does!

2. Your post seems to suggest that gifts are important to you, but only certain types of gifts. In other words, if he bought you chocolates, you wouldn't really care or feel loved by that. What I am going to throw out there for your consideration is this: Ask yourself how you respond when he gets you gifts that don't "matter" to you. How do you act differently from when he gets you something that does matter, like your things for the party? Once you've answered that, consider what lesson he might be learning from your behavior. Is it that he only measures up sometimes? Or does he feel like he struck a home run every single time?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> C2W, it sounds like you two do genuinely love each other and may be able to make progress.
> 
> I'm reading between the lines here, and feel free to take or leave whatever I've written....
> 
> ...


Honestly, I've never thought of it this way. Since hubs was just home I went ahead and asked him, and his response was, "I don't think so. I've never thought about it before, so probably not." 

I can totally see how it _could_ make him feel that way. I've told him before that I tend to be critical, especially when I feel emotionally unfulfilled. I have been trying not to be as critical lately.



> 2. Your post seems to suggest that gifts are important to you, but only certain types of gifts. In other words, if he bought you chocolates, you wouldn't really care or feel loved by that. What I am going to throw out there for your consideration is this: Ask yourself how you respond when he gets you gifts that don't "matter" to you. How do you act differently from when he gets you something that does matter, like your things for the party? Once you've answered that, consider what lesson he might be learning from your behavior. Is it that he only measures up sometimes? Or does he feel like he struck a home run every single time?


Specific gifts are important, yes. In the past I have shown my disappointment when he's gotten me something that I really could have cared less about. We've talked many times about that. One thing that we both have decided to do, is to be honest about what fulfills us and what doesn't. I don't want him spending energy and time doing things for me that don't fulfill me emotionally, same as I don't want to spend my time and energy doing things for him that won't matter. 

The difference now, however, is that we're at a place of truly open communication where we can be honest about what fulfills us and what doesn't. We've promised not to be upset if something we do for the other isn't met with the excitement or reaction we initially expected. And, as the person receiving the gift or gesture, we promised not to be angry or mad if something the other does doesn't fulfill us.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

CanadianGuy said:


> I really enjoyed reading your post.
> 
> Some of answers/insights you both gave about your needs sounded like they were straight from the pages of His needs/Her needs.
> 
> Have either of you read that book?


I was thinking the same thing. 

C2W.. you might want to read the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Dr. Harley as it sound like this is what the two of you have started to do. The book would give you some great ideas.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

So I'm interesting in knowing what your expected endgame is?

Are you hoping that your husband will eventually replicate a similar level of affection you enjoyed growing up?

Or are you hoping that he just becomes more affectionate than he naturally is, even if that level doesn't approach what you're accustomed to?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I was thinking the same thing.
> 
> C2W.. you might want to read the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Dr. Harley as it sound like this is what the two of you have started to do. The book would give you some great ideas.


They're reading it now.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

jaquen said:


> So I'm interesting in knowing what your expected endgame is?
> 
> Are you hoping that your husband will eventually replicate a similar level of affection you enjoyed growing up?
> 
> Or are you hoping that he just becomes more affectionate than he naturally is, even if that level doesn't approach what you're accustomed to?


Well, it would be unrealistic to expect one person to match the amount of affection I was getting from two parents, so no. I don't expect the same _quantity_. I do expect the same quality; by that I mean, that I expect him to put effort into doing the things that mean the most. Same I expect to put effort into doing the things that mean the most to him. 

So, endgame, I'd like to have my top five needs met on a daily/bi-daily/weekly basis. But admiration, affection and honesty and openness I need daily. Those three things help me feel connected to him as his wife, not just as a friend. Recreational companionship is something I need weekly, but he needs it daily so I doubt that there will be an issue there. Sexual fulfillment, for me, needs to be about every other day at least. The only reason it isn't higher on the list is because the other four(particularly the first three) have been what he struggles with showing. Honestly, I classify sexual fulfillment along with affection to a certain degree.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

My first few comments you may not like very much.

Your husband is not going to change greatly for an extended period of time. You are a very sensitive person that has a strong need for your top love languages which does not match with your husband’s nature to a degree of 100% or 90% or maybe even 80%.

Your husband has tried at times and succeeded and that is admirable. I hope that he keeps trying but remember he is not working this from his nature or need requirements he is doing this for you. That being the case then as life goes on and other life issues come into his life he is not going to be able to fulfill all your needs even though he may want to.

However, he should give it a 100% effort but your sensitive nature and needs are just not the same as his and he will not be able to fulfill you in all areas. However I see no reason why, him giving it 100% effort and when he fails then get back at it, and you be willing and accepting to compromise on your requirements from time to time, you both cannot have a successful marriage. Also, your communication skills and writing skills are great advantages.
*You both sure do have a lot going for you.*


> Sexually we're very compatible, spiritually we're very compatible, morally we're very compatible, we share the same political beliefs...most importantly, I really do love him. And I believe he loves me.


*WOW, I know a lot of married couples that would love to have that much going for them!*

Created, you said it best when you said:



> “I believe that any couple can have a successful relationship so long as they truly love each other, and they're willing to be *selfless”*


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Out of curiosity, C2W, does he feel like he's at a disadvantage when it comes to "talking" with you about things?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Keep working at it mrs Write . I agree with a few here that His Needs/Her Needs gives a good perspective.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

:sleeping:


Created2Write said:


> Specific gifts are important, yes. *In the past I have shown my disappointment when he's gotten me something that I really could have cared less about. *We've talked many times about that. One thing that we both have decided to do, is to be honest about what fulfills us and what doesn't. I don't want him spending energy and time doing things for me that don't fulfill me emotionally, same as I don't want to spend my time and energy doing things for him that won't matter.
> 
> The difference now, however, is that we're at a place of truly open communication where we can be honest about what fulfills us and what doesn't. We've promised not to be upset if something we do for the other isn't met with the excitement or reaction we initially expected. And, as the person receiving the gift or gesture, we promised not to be angry or mad if something the other does doesn't fulfill us.


You sound like me again.... Speaking of *gifts* here.... earlier in our walk together, I wasn't exactly the easiest woman to please and a few times I didn't care for his gifts (Christmas etc)... and we'd end up taking them back... yes, I'm awful... 

So his attitude was .. .heck with you! and I didn't blame him a bit.... I agreed... I'm too damn picky, it's not worth the aggravation ...

So we haven't bought gifts for each other in ages...we just SHOP together all year 'round, talk about what we want openly... buy it together... works for us! 

We both have gifts at the bottom of our love languages though, so it's a no brainer. 

His affection/ touchy/feelyness / time spend together....for me... there is no greater gift..... I don't need surprises.. just him coming home every day with a  on his face wrapping his arms around me with a







. 

This is what fulfills... I told him years ago - if he ever buys me flowers, they better have roots (or I'd think it was a waste of money), then I'd say... better yet... Buy me a TREE ! 

He told me I could buy my own Tree. Ha ha


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Mr Blunt said:


> My first few comments you may not like very much.
> 
> Your husband is not going to change greatly for an extended period of time. You are a very sensitive person that has a strong need for your top love languages which does not match with your husband’s nature to a degree of 100% or 90% or maybe even 80%.
> 
> ...


As long as I see continual effort being put it, I will be satisfied. Our issue has mainly been that he tries really hard for a few weeks, and then falls back to only doing the bare minimum. I'm hoping _His Needs, Her Needs_ helps us both meet the essential needs we each have.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> Out of curiosity, C2W, does he feel like he's at a disadvantage when it comes to "talking" with you about things?


Not that I know of. We're better at talking with each other now than we were two years ago. 

I do know that he doesn't often tell me what it is he needs from me. Honesty and Openness is my third greatest need, and it is so because of this reason. He tends to keep his feelings inside and not vocalize them. I've been encouraging him to be honest about what he needs so that he can be fulfilled as well.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> :sleeping:
> 
> You sound like me again.... Speaking of *gifts* here.... earlier in our walk together, I wasn't exactly the easiest woman to please and a few times I didn't care for his gifts (Christmas etc)... and we'd end up taking them back... yes, I'm awful...
> 
> ...


I like getting gifts. It can be apart of affection. Friday night was date night, and hubs came home on time(he gets off work at five...he usually gets home around 5:06). In his hand was a gorgeous bouquet of pink roses and lilies. Both, my favorite flowers. I wasn't expecting that. Turns out he asked to leave fifteen minutes early so that the flowers would actually be a surprise.  I _loooooved_ them. It turned my day around. 

We had a great date night. Dinner and saw The Hobbit.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Out of curiosity, C2W, does he feel like he's at a disadvantage when it comes to "talking" with you about things?


I'm not sure if this what you mean, but I can be at a disadvantage talking my wife because she is much more expressive of her feelings and also her grasp and use of the English language exceeds mine (journalism major, Dr dictionary nut and English is not her first language). Over the summer I think wrote in your post I've had to ask her to "use little words" (when fighting).


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