# Do I need permission?



## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

I've been married for 3 years now and things haven't been going great. I think my husband is controlling, but maybe this is what marriage is? Please help! Every time I want to hang out with friends, I have to ask. Now I brought up that I was going to my mom's in a couple weeks and spending the night(she lives a couple hours away) and he got mad at me and said I just do whatever I want. Should I have asked to go to my mom's? I don't which one of us is the irrational one! Any input would be appreciated


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Need more context.

Why do you think he's controlling? How's the rest of the marriage? Does he hang out with his friends? How often do you hang out with your friends or go away on your own?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I don't think that normally you need to ask permission, you just have to inform unless you're doing something that creates a hardship or problem. Does he seek your permission to do similar things? If not, then he has NO right to require it of you. Of course, discussing such things and negotiating are normal - requiring his permission is not.

(The only exception is if you've actually betrayed his trust in the past, and now need to be transparent to regain it.)


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Yes, for the most part you should ask. You should talk about things like this together before you make decisions on your own.

If the friend wants to meet for coffee and you know that your husband is busy at work then maybe you don't need to ask. But if your friend wants to go to a movie or to a bar on Friday night, you should be asking your spouse. 

Before agreeing to spend nights away, you should talk to your spouse. Not so much to ask permission, but to be polite.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

No, you should generally not need to ask. Definitely you aren't asking for permission, but if you do ask it should be along the lines of asking if there are any conflicts with his schedule. Will the car be in the shop and he needs a ride home from work? Did he have plans to take you out to a show or concert that weekend?

For basic get togethers it should be more of an advanced notice out of courtesy. Tell him the day before if you can, or send him a text mid day if you're making plans for tonight.

But here's my question about all this: Is there a reason he might be feeling abandoned by you? Are you giving him plenty of attention and time at home? Do you do things together a lot? Is your sex life good?

If he is feeling generally ignored by you at home, he might get upset when you then go do things with others.


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

My wife & I tell each other what we're doing, or where we're going......most of the time. But it's always been out of courtesy, not because we had to.:smile2: Sometimes, we may forget to though.
We are adults and DON'T need permission from anyone to go somewhere or do something, even if it's overnight.
This "arrangement" has worked well for 34 years.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

This is kind of long, but here are my inserts from a previous thread: 

I haven't done anything like this before so bare with me as I tend to ramble! I have been married for 3 1/2 years, been together for 6 total. I've been considering counseling but I think I already gave up. I've done a lot of research and what I'm finding all confirms my beliefs that I am in a controlling relationship. My husband does not like it when I hang out with my friends and is constantly texting me to check up on me, even if I go to my mom's house.

I am basically a single parent to our child, i.e.- I do all the bathing, feeding, diaper changes, etc. But if I'm doing something different then the way my husband would, he steps in to let me know (he has children from a previous marriage). 

He has an extreme temper and has broken things and thrown things. He has never been physically abuse, but has threatened it. He has said he would never hit me, but in the same breath said if he ever did hit me I wouldn't wake up from it. 

There is absolutely no reasoning with him, the double standards in our relationship are laughable. He says I don't tell him what's wrong or how I'm feeling, but when I try to, he blows it off or says, get over it. Our arguments have no resolution. They just go in circles of blame. (This is where I feel counseling may help, but at the same time, I don't see him changing)

I mentioned that I was looking at apartments and that's when he started with the apologies and guilt of, don't you love me, and how can you just give up so quickly. But since then (months ago) nothing has really changed.

I don't know if this is worth going through anymore, but I think it could be worse if I leave? My friends say I should leave and my mom is supportive either way, she just wants me to be happy and sees that I'm not right now. 

Thoughts?

~ Subsequent posts by me:

There used to be enjoyment, now I feel like anything I do or say is wrong. It's like walking on egg shells. The temper has kind of always been there but it seems to be getting worse. The controlling wasn't always there. I don't know what sparked it, I haven't been unfaithful or given any reason for him not to trust me.

I have given him the, I'm not happy, this isn't working speech. He has agreed things are bad, but I don't think he sees his faults completely. He tells me it's in my head and my friends are trying to ruin the marriage. He wanted to start fresh and put everything in the past, clean slate. The first argument we had after that conversation, all of the past came back out. When I told him I was looking at apartments, he told me if I was going to leave, all my stuff better be out in a day or it would end up on the curb. So I let the conversation go and told him I was willing to try. But I feel like a fraud, I'm on edge and stressed out all the time, wondering what's going to set him off this time. It's hard to want to try when I feel like I'm dealing with a time bomb. He's told me he would consider counseling, but in the past has said that counselors are a joke. Which makes me think he's just grasping at straws, trying to keep me thinking there's hope. His actions and words are proving otherwise. I just don't know how long I should play this game.

I know I'm not happy. I hate the person I've become, so angry and bitter all the time. And stressed about everything. This isn't the way a marriage or life should be. But now for the past week we haven't had a fight. It hasn't been great either. My work schedule is pretty much 7 on, 7 off, so we haven't seen much of each other. I'm just sick of this being the only thing I think about. 

To address the issue of having a child: I do think the environment he is in is a toxic one, however it's hard to tell if leaving would make things better for him. Sure he wouldn't be in a negative household all the time, but be would still have visitation with his father. And the lack of attention my son receives now, I just worry about what it would be like if I wasn't here. I just don't know what to do

Well I told him I made us a counseling appointment, and now he doesn't want to go. He said how is someone that doesn't know us going to tell us how to get better. And now when I try to explain how I'm feeling or explain what is wrong, he blames it all on me for being the one thinking about moving out. I guess I shot myself in the foot on that one.....

He still doesn't see that his behavior is wrong. And now is justifying anything negative he does on the fact that I said I was looking at apartments. The blame is back. He said why should he try if I'm going to leave anyway. I told him I haven't left yet and that he should be giving me reasons to stay not pushing me away further.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Look up Borderline Personality Disorder. This guy sounds like my ex. As uninvolved as he is in your son's life now, if there were a split, he likely would become less and less involved over time (my two 17 year old boys speak to their father twice a year, in the driveway, when he comes to pick up the youngest for a week.....twice a year.)

In the immediate years after our split, I started realizing that I was playing into his temper, his coldness, and his abusive/controlling behavior. Continue to see a counselor, just yourself, and read the book, Boundaries, by Could and Townsend. That book was a lifesaver for me in more ways than one. 

It's easier said than done, but you shouldn't let his actions and attitude stress you out. You are a grown woman, with a child to take care of, and deserve happiness. Whether or not you are in a marriage with your H, you can find happiness. Don't feel guilty for it either.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

Someone else suggested he has BPD too. He thinks I'm bipolar. Because one minute I'm in a good mood and the next minute I'm "snippy". What he doesn't see is that I'm in a good mood and trying to get him in a good mood too, but after several attempts I give up and then I am in a bad mood. It's an endless cycle.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

In a nominally functioning relationship, you do not need permission to do much of anything. He is not your father nor legal guardian.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Bee29 said:


> I am basically a single parent to our child, i.e.- I do all the bathing, feeding, diaper changes, etc. But if I'm doing something different then the way my husband would, he steps in to let me know (he has children from a previous marriage).
> 
> He has an extreme temper and has broken things and thrown things. He has never been physically abuse, but has threatened it. *He has said he would never hit me, but in the same breath said if he ever did hit me I wouldn't wake up from it.
> *


Sorry to say, but you need to get out. Period.

And DO NOT ask for permission!


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Bee29 said:


> but in the same breath said if he ever did hit me I wouldn't wake up from it.


Get away from him. A man who threatens you with physical violence, while at the same time pumping his ego about how deadly his punches are, isn't worth anyone's time. To say the least.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think you need to go dark on him about you considering leaving. Stop engaging him in relationship conversations or arguments. Talk to a lawyer and to a women's shelter about how to safely exit your situation. He is dangerous even if he hasn't hit you yet. He has been violent by throwing and breaking things. Very bad sign!!!

Most lawyers will give you a free 10 to 30 minute consultation where you can get your basic questions answered. You'll learn how things work in divorce and custody where you live. The women's shelter may be able to hook you up with a lawyer familiar with your kinds of issues, and if money is a problem for you the shelter may have a lawyer who will work with you to make it affordable.

Your child is in a terrible situation! Children observe and take in everything. As a young child it is bad but not unrecoverable if you get out so that the environment becomes safe and emotionally healthy. But if you stay it will only get worse and worse for your child.

I see no positive reason to stay in this marriage for you or your child. Normally I am very pro-marriage and support making heroic efforts to save a marriage and a family. Not in your case. You've been emotionally and psychologically abused which has distorted your perception of how bad the situation really is.

Individual counseling may help you, too. Your job should offer EAP (Employee Assistance Program) which is free and absolutely confidential counseling. Your employer will never know you went. Nobody has access to the records other than the therapist.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

BPD or perhaps Narcissistic Personality Disorder (because he's always right). 

Think about himself most of the time and talk about himself a lot
Crave attention and admiration
Exaggerate his talents and achievements
Believe he’s special
Set unrealistic goals
Have wide, fast mood swings
Have a hard time taking others’ feelings seriously
Strive to win, whatever it takes
Fantasize about unlimited success, money, and power

Sound like him? Either way, unless he honestly participates in long term intensive counseling (marriage and individual) this isn't likely to change and it's VERY likely to escalate.

- First, act no different toward him - keep the status quo.
- Next, gather copies of all financial statements so you have account numbers, 401k balances, etc. Copies of vehicle loans or titles, etc. Even utility bills that are in your name. Scan and email to a private email address of yours so you have access to them.
- Pack a small bag for you and your child and tuck away somewhere he isn't going to find it. Or take to your Mom's. That way if things get ugly and you have to leave suddenly, you at least have some basics like underwear and a change of clothing.
- Open up a separate bank account - he may cut you off suddenly when you leave. When you DO leave, talk half out of any joint account and put it in that account.
- Take photos of your things and your home. This is in case he goes on a rage and destroys things or throws your stuff out. You can prove what you had and what condition they are in so that he will have to replace them/the cost.
- Consult an attorney. Often initial consultations are free or the fee is nominal like $75. If you have to 'hide' money to have enough for a consult, get some cash back for several normal purchases until there is enough. Or borrow from your Mom.
- Journal or otherwise document his abusive language. Record yelling, screaming or threats to your safety. You may want or need this for a restraining order.

Now you are prepared and know your legal rights. This will go a long way toward making you feel better and in control. 

If your attorney advises you that you shouldn't leave the house and "abandon" property, etc. then tell him to leave. If he won't, call the police. Change the locks.

If you are OK to leave per your attorney, leave. Do it quickly and give him written notice (text is fine but screen shot that for future reference) when you will come back to get your share of things. TAKE FRIENDS ANY TIME YOU GO BACK OR MEET HIM. Legally your stuff isn't abandoned for 30 days or more; consult your attorney on that as it varies by jurisdiction.

*This will escalate.* But not forever. The worst part fades in around 30 days. There will be contentious flare ups from time to time but know that the worst won't last forever. That will get you through the times you just want to give in to him or you feel like you are falling apart. Get into counseling - it will help you stay more objective which will also help you get through the scariest parts. And come here as often as you need to. Read my story. Married to a NPD for 15 years; blissfully single for 11.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't think you need permission but just to tell your husband where you are going and why. I think that people really walk a fine line between whether that's considered controlling or not. Wouldn't you want to know where your husband was and why if he were gone overnight?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bee29 said:


> Someone else suggested he has BPD too. He thinks I'm bipolar. Because one minute I'm in a good mood and the next minute I'm "snippy". What he doesn't see is that I'm in a good mood and trying to get him in a good mood too, but after several attempts I give up and then I am in a bad mood. It's an endless cycle.


There is a kind of rapidly cycling Bipolar Disorder

But do not try to diagnose him based on info on the internet and what lay people say. It takes a person trained in these things to diagnose. 

That's important right now is that he is abusing and threatening you so you need to get away from him. You need to protect yourself.

Your husband is controlling and abusive. That is the bottom line for you.

Actually the reason that some people abuse their spouse is to gain control over their spouse and to make themselves feel stronger. It's like the worse they make your feel the more power they get.

One of the tactics of abusers is that they do things to make their target feel unsure about themselves. If they can keep their target in a constant state of mental and emotional turmoil, the target is easier to control.

There is a book that I think will explain to you what's going on with him: 


Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft

Please read the book. You need to start educating yourself about abuse. The more you do the stronger you will become and the more you will be able to stand up to it and leave if you want to (or need to).

A caution.. your husband is considered to be physically abusive.

When a person breaks things like her does in anger, the message is usually... this time I'm breaking an object, next time it might be your.. so do as I say.

Your husband has seriously threatened you. And it is working. You are no living in fear of him. 

If he said that to anyone some, they could have him arrested and charged for the threat of physical harm. Saying that he will beat you until you cannot get up can be construed as a death threat.

Always believe a person when they threaten to harm you. It's not cute. It's not funny. It's a threat to seriously harm you or to kill you.

I also suggest that you find a place near you that helps victims of domestic abuse and you start counseling with them. They can help you.


Here is the number for the national domestic abuse hotline. They can help you find a place near you that can help you * 1 800 799 7233.
*


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> That's important right now is that he is abusing and threatening you so you need to get away from him. You need to protect yourself.
> 
> Your husband is controlling and abusive. That is the bottom line for you.
> 
> ...


This is worth repeating. He is likely not NPD, just ABUSIVE. And mental abuse can be far worse than physical abuse because it paralyzes you.

Move forward with moving out. See a lawyer. Read the Why Does He Do That book so you understand that he WILL NOT GET BETTER. No matter WHAT he promises you, he CANNOT become a better husband, not without HIM going to personal therapy for at least one or two years.

So basically, even if you were to want to save this marriage, it will take at least two years of him going to therapy by himself before you can consider getting back with him. Only time will tell if he will GO to therapy, let alone stick with it for two years.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

Thank you all for your opinions, I feel like I'm crazy but now I have some validation for what I've been thinking. I looked up the book online and the little I have read of it always validates my thoughts. I'm no longer afraid of leaving, I'm afraid of the process and what's going to happen when I do leave. I just need to build the strength and courage to finally go. I'm not stupid, I don't know why it took so long to see this. I guess I was just passing it off as normal or mininalizing the severity of the situation. Or maybe because I was better at handling the ups and downs, but I think I'm just burnt out. I just want to be happy again.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Based on your very first post I was going to say that while you don't need his "permission," when you're married, you discuss all things like where you are going and for how long, in advance. And you don't put spending time with other people ahead of your marriage/spouse. 

When you don't say something in advance, it's very frustrating to the spouse because your decisions affect them, but they feel they have no control over the situation.

But then I read further...

At the very least your husband's temper is not acceptable and even if he hasn't hit you yet, he is not safe to be around for you OR your child. There is a really good thread on this on the marriagebuilders website - scroll down for lots of good information. What to do with an Angry Husband - Marriage Builders® Forums

If you are making and executing plans without talking with your husband about them first, yes, that can invite controlling behavior. But it sounds like he's way over the line and possibly controlling regardless. You can read about "Independent Behavior" here though if you want to see how you might be contributing to the problem. Love Busters (click the "Independent Behavior" link toward the bottom. 

But regardless, his angry outbursts are not acceptable, and just because he's never hurt you before does not mean he is safe.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

I've decided to move out. I'm scared to death, I don't know if I should say something or just go. I have a son that we will still have to share so I don't want to make too many waves. At the same time, I don't know how he will react or if it's safe to tell him. Another reason I want to tell him is because I'm getting sick of pretending everything is OK. Help!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you feel at all uncertain if he'll get physical, just leave and then inform him once you're gone. See a lawyer first, even if it's just for an initial consultation, so he/she can tell you what steps you need to take to ensure the safety and care of your son.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bee29 said:


> I've decided to move out. I'm scared to death, I don't know if I should say something or just go. I have a son that we will still have to share so I don't want to make too many waves. At the same time, I don't know how he will react or if it's safe to tell him. Another reason I want to tell him is because I'm getting sick of pretending everything is OK. Help!


Before you move out, see a lawyer and get the divorce papers ready to serve to your husband. 

Do not move your son out of the family home until you get instructions from your lawyer how to go about it legally. 

I had a very bad experience in that the first time I lift my son's father, my lawyer told me to just move out with my stuff and my son. so I did. Well my husband got a lawyer to call an emergency court hearing. At the hearing, the judge said that she did not believe my accusation as physical abuse since I had never called the police. My ex is an MD. The judge said that we cannot have court papers accusing an MD of physical abuse, so she sealed the divorce papers. Then she ordered me to return my son to the family home where my husband still lived. Basically she was giving him 100% custody. She then chewed me out for making the unilateral decision to move my son out of the family home. 

I moved back in. I was not going to leave a 3.5 yr old boy with an abusive father. It took be about 4 more years before I could re-file and have a case built.. plus I had to wait for that judge to leave the bench. She was notorious for favoring the father/husband regardless of serious abuse.

Get a lawyer and make sure your lawyer knows what they are doing. The way my lawyer (a new lawyer) handled this when I filed the second time was to file a temporary child custody/time-sharing order so that it was clear that I was not kidnapping our son. She filed it with the initial court filing of the divorce. This second time it went smoothly. My ex tried all kinds of nonsense to get 100% custody, but this lawyer handled it right.

How old is your son by the way?


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

My son is 3


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bee29 said:


> My son is 3


About the same age my son was. He's too young to fend for himself.

So... get a lawyer and get your ducks in a row. Then leave.

If you do not feel safe telling your husband in person, then just leave when he's not around. You can leave him a note and/or have him served as notice that you moved out.

What have you done so far in preparation to leave? 

Do you have the following:

Bank account in your name only with money in it?

Copies of every bill, every financial paper, back tax papers, your and your son's birth certificates, social security cards (to include your husband's), copy of your husband's birth certificates, pass ports, etc?

All of your valuable removed from the house?

Where are you going to move to?

Do you two own the home you live in?


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## pickil65 (Oct 15, 2015)

My husband can be controlling too sometimes, well a lot of the times, but I found if you make plans you just say hey do you mind I'm going to go to my mom's overnight. You'll be surprised how much that extra 3 words, do you mind, makes when telling him what your doing, your not really asking but your not really telling either, its kind of a middle ground. If he does mind, then I roll my eyes and get on with my day.



Bee29 said:


> I've been married for 3 years now and things haven't been going great. I think my husband is controlling, but maybe this is what marriage is? Please help! Every time I want to hang out with friends, I have to ask. Now I brought up that I was going to my mom's in a couple weeks and spending the night(she lives a couple hours away) and he got mad at me and said I just do whatever I want. Should I have asked to go to my mom's? I don't which one of us is the irrational one! Any input would be appreciated


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

We are currently renting a house, I have my own account, we've never had a shared account, I'm the 'bookkeeper' so to speak so I have access to all documents. He's home a lot but is going out of town in a couple weeks so I figured that's my window to leave. I just feel like if he comes home and my stuff is gone he's going to freak out. That's why I think it may be better to give him a heads up. He already has it in his head that I might leave anyway, so maybe he won't take it as such a shock?


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## pickil65 (Oct 15, 2015)

Bee29 said:


> Someone else suggested he has BPD too. He thinks I'm bipolar. Because one minute I'm in a good mood and the next minute I'm "snippy". What he doesn't see is that I'm in a good mood and trying to get him in a good mood too, but after several attempts I give up and then I am in a bad mood. It's an endless cycle.


Okay so he is the one that sounds bi-polar, bi-polar runs in my family, its sounds like your ready to move out already but if you want to try tell him that he needs to see the doctor about mental problems then drop a note by the doctors office before his appointment explaining why you think he has mental issues. Chance are he has one of the 2.


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## pickil65 (Oct 15, 2015)

Bee29 said:


> We are currently renting a house, I have my own account, we've never had a shared account, I'm the 'bookkeeper' so to speak so I have access to all documents. He's home a lot but is going out of town in a couple weeks so I figured that's my window to leave. I just feel like if he comes home and my stuff is gone he's going to freak out. That's why I think it may be better to give him a heads up. He already has it in his head that I might leave anyway, so maybe he won't take it as such a shock?


Wait to tell him until he is gone that way he cant force you to stay, tell him over the phone, if you tell him now he will think its just a threat and start the cycle all over again.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

We did counseling, he doesn't see any fault in his behavior. I can't get through to him. He just turns everything back on me. I just can't do this anymore


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Marriage isn't supposed to be like that, Bee. Move out. If he truly wants to be a part of your life, he will LISTEN and CHANGE to EARN you back. After lots of therapy and separate households.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bee29 said:


> We are currently renting a house, I have my own account, we've never had a shared account, I'm the 'bookkeeper' so to speak so I have access to all documents. He's home a lot but is going out of town in a couple weeks so I figured that's my window to leave. I just feel like if he comes home and my stuff is gone he's going to freak out. That's why I think it may be better to give him a heads up. He already has it in his head that I might leave anyway, so maybe he won't take it as such a shock?


Sounds like when he's out of town is your window. Is this a business trip.

Move out while he's gone. If you want to tell before he walks into an empty house, there are several ways to do this...

You can send him an email after you have moved out. If he's away for business, don't do this until he's about to leave for home. Once you tell him he will probably not be able to do his job for the remainder of the trip.

You can be at the house, tell him and then leave. If you do this, get VAR (voice activated recorder) and have it hidden on you just in case thing get bad and he does something stupid.

Or meet him in a public place and tell him there since he's less likely to blow up in public.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

Thank you Turnera! I just really needed some encouragement. I keep going back and forth trying to decide if my decision to leave is the right one. Deep down I know it is, but I'm terrified of following through. At this point I'm actually feeling physically sick over this. But I know once I'm out a huge weight will be lifted


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

I agree with previous posts, don' need permission but do need to talk about it first. It's been a topic of debate in several threads prior but I think to summarize: the thing about marriage is the commitment to each other comes first, not at the expense of other relationships. If you are open and honest and are willing at times to 'not go' then it's balanced. However, how often do you want to see your friends? If it's a lot you might want to ask why being at home isn't more satisfying and then it gets into what else might be wrong with the relationship....


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Bee29 said:
> 
> 
> > We are currently renting a house, I have my own account, we've never had a shared account, I'm the 'bookkeeper' so to speak so I have access to all documents. He's home a lot but is going out of town in a couple weeks so I figured that's my window to leave. I just feel like if he comes home and my stuff is gone he's going to freak out. That's why I think it may be better to give him a heads up. He already has it in his head that I might leave anyway, so maybe he won't take it as such a shock?
> ...


He's going to out of town hunting. I will have to wait until the end of the weekend to tell him, or he'll just come back early


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you going to some place where others will always be around? If you think he will harm you, you need to either be with others (less likely to attack you if you're around other people) or else go to a women's shelter, which do not give out their addresses to anyone, so the men can't find their wives.

Have you found a lawyer yet? Don't do this without one.

The reason I ask is you saying 'he'll come back early.'

I want to make sure you understand this is a permanent move. AWAY from him. As in divorce. So it doesn't really matter if he 'comes back early' because he is no longer a factor in your life once you leave. If you are safely away, it makes no difference when he comes back or, frankly, whatever else he chooses to do.

Have you read the Why Does He Do That? book yet?


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

I've spoken to the women's shelter in town and I also have legal help.I'm going to be moving to a large apartment complex and don't plan on telling him the address. The reason I'm worried about him coming back early is because I plan on moving a lot of stuff out. I'm not leaving empty handed, we still have double of a lot of things i.e. couch, TV, dishes, etc. When I tell him I'm out, I want to make sure that I'm actually gone.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bee29 said:


> I've spoken to the women's shelter in town and I also have legal help.I'm going to be moving to a large apartment complex and don't plan on telling him the address. The reason I'm worried about him coming back early is because I plan on moving a lot of stuff out. I'm not leaving empty handed, we still have double of a lot of things i.e. couch, TV, dishes, etc. When I tell him I'm out, I want to make sure that I'm actually gone.


Good plan


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Bee29 said:


> I mentioned that I was looking at apartments and that's when he started with the apologies and guilt of, don't you love me, and how can you just give up so quickly. But since then (months ago) nothing has really changed.


Hmmmm.....

You made a threat, didn't follow through, and STILL nothing changed?

I don't know what else you could have done differently.

:banghead:


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Bee29 said:


> Thank you Turnera! I just really needed some encouragement. I keep going back and forth trying to decide if my decision to leave is the right one. Deep down I know it is, but I'm terrified of following through. At this point I'm actually feeling physically sick over this. But I know once I'm out a huge weight will be lifted


It is scary stuff! But you are not alone. If you want to gain some inspiration about how strong a scared person can be, go check out domestic abuse by Navy3 in the Ladie's Lounge. Ele and Turnera will stick with you. They have your back.

Can you hear me rooting for you? Cue Strength of a Woman by Shaggy.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Bee, I think you should not tell him ahead of time. Not if you're going to still stay in the house for a while. You can either tell him as you're moving out, or after you've moved out. But I don't think it sounds safe to tell him in advance.

I think it is safest for you to tell him after. This way he won't know exactly where you are when he finds out. Otherwise, if you are right there when you tell him, and especially if you have friends on the doorstep to help you move the heavy items, he might lash out.

You haven't said anything about talking to a lawyer. Please be sure you do so asap in order to do this right in terms of your child.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

I'm moving out this weekend. I'm scared and actually sad about it. Is that normal? I feel bad about leaving. I guess I still love H, but I know that I need to go. Ugh, I'm a wreck


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

The most dangerous time for a victim is when she/he decides to leave the relationship. You've talked enough to your abusive husband, and now it's time to leave. Quietly make your plans and then tell him of your decision once you have safely left.

See an Attorney asap about taking out a restraining order and finding out what your legal rights are.

Domestic Violence and Abuse: Signs of Abuse and Abusive Relationships


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

It's courtesy and considerate to speak to our spouses about our plans, so the family comings & goings run smoothly, not leaving either wondering where the other is.. in the event of an emergency , for an example...

I can't say I've even felt I needed "permission" in all our years together (decades here) to go somewhere, at the very least he may worry if the weather is bad, winter driving, or the atmosphere I may be in -if he is not there..which I chalk up to caring about me..

I've always been one to openly share what is going on, many times getting his input... we have a like mindedness in the type of friends we have, this too has helped. 

******

From the things you have shared in this thread (only read a few of your posts) .. he fits the Abusive profile on a # of these...

*Top 10 Signs of an Abusive Man* ... We have broken down the top 10 signs of an abusive man. If your partner exhibits one or more of these signs, it may be time to reevaluate your relationship and seek help or get out.


> *1.* *Jealousy & Possessiveness* – Becomes jealous over your family, friends, co-workers. Tries to isolate you. Views his woman and children as his property instead of as unique individuals. Accuses you of cheating or flirting with other men without cause. Always asks where you’ve been and with whom in an accusatory manner.
> 
> *2.* *Control *– He is overly demanding of your time and must be the center of your attention. He controls finances, the car, and the activities you partake in. Becomes angry if woman begins showing signs of independence or strength.
> 
> ...


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

As for the permission to hang out with friends, it's a grey area, my wife recently started making new friends and wanting to go out for drinks or whatever, at first she would just mention it and I didn't care, I'm a home body or I take her out so I just hang out with the kids. But then it evolved into either her out with her friends, or her friends at our house five nights out of the week, it was just too much. I basically said "if you want to be a single woman then be a single woman, I'm not going to tell you that you can't go out with friends, but I'm allowed to be offended and bothered by you constantly out with friends, and at times coming home very late and obviously drunk". She called me controlling too, I said "I'm not controlling you, I'm telling you that your actions have an impact on me and how I feel about you".

But aside from that your follow up posts seem to show a guy with anger issues, he sounds frustrated and probably could be fixed if he took a real hard look at himself.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Bee29 said:


> I'm moving out this weekend. I'm scared and actually sad about it. Is that normal? I feel bad about leaving. I guess I still love H, but I know that I need to go. Ugh, I'm a wreck


You can do this. You have the strength. Take your feelings and (just this once) stuff them down. Pull your logic up and keep it forefront. You are not alone. I've been there. Twice. So have many many many other women on this board. Sending you all the extra good, strong vibes can muster!!!


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

GA HEART said:


> Bee29 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm moving out this weekend. I'm scared and actually sad about it. Is that normal? I feel bad about leaving. I guess I still love H, but I know that I need to go. Ugh, I'm a wreck
> ...


Thank you for your words of encouragement! I know once I'm actually gone it will be a huge relief. I just feel bad that he's going to be totally blindsided. I've been acting like things are OK and I feel like a fraud.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Bee29 said:


> Thank you for your words of encouragement! I know once I'm actually gone it will be a huge relief. I just feel bad that he's going to be totally blindsided. I've been acting like things are OK and I feel like a fraud.


Better for him to be blindsided and you feel like a fraud than for you to end up physically injured.

If you were a prisoner and trying to escape your captor, your success in doing so would rely on your ability to keep your plans to yourself. Seeing your H as your captor probably seems rather far fetched, but if you spoke to a large number of abuse survivors you'd know that it's just plain common sense.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

Cosmos said:


> Bee29 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for your words of encouragement! I know once I'm actually gone it will be a huge relief. I just feel bad that he's going to be totally blindsided. I've been acting like things are OK and I feel like a fraud.
> ...


That is a very good way to look at it, thank you! I do feel like a prisoner most of the time. I just have 2 more days. I just hope things go as planned this weekend


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Bee29 said:


> I'm moving out this weekend. I'm scared and actually sad about it. Is that normal? I feel bad about leaving. I guess I still love H, but I know that I need to go. Ugh, I'm a wreck


It is very normal. When I left my abusive ex I was sad and wondering if I did the right thing for a long time but it was 100% the right choice and soon enough you will be so happy that you got out when you did. You will look back and wonder how the heck you stayed for as long as you did.

Once you are gone he may pull the "I'm so sorry" act. He will be well behaved, promising to keep it up, accepting his faults and begging for another chance. 
Those changes don't last and if you go back after leaving once it's even worse once he gets back to his old self and you might not get another chance like this to leave again. 

If he wants to improve his behavior with therapy and help then he will do it for himself, by himself. You worry about you.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

Well I moved. I'm in my own apartment but it feels like I'm living in a hotel. It's so foreign. I feel very lost. I finally have the freedom to do what I want and come home to peace, but all I want to do is nothing. He's doing the "I'm sorry" act. I can't believe how bad it's getting to me. He said that I owe him for rent since I didn't give him any warning. I told him I have my own rent and bills to worry about now, but he makes me feel so guilty. He wants to try to work things out. I told him, he had his chance and he said he didn't think I would actually leave. I'm not scared of him at this point, but he's really got my mind tangled up. I keep thinking maybe it is my fault, I wasn't always the nicest or happiest. Maybe I'm being selfish by just giving up and walking away?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Bee29 said:


> Well I moved. I'm in my own apartment but it feels like I'm living in a hotel. It's so foreign. I feel very lost. I finally have the freedom to do what I want and come home to peace, but all I want to do is nothing. He's doing the "I'm sorry" act. I can't believe how bad it's getting to me. He said that I owe him for rent since I didn't give him any warning. I told him I have my own rent and bills to worry about now, but he makes me feel so guilty. He wants to try to work things out. I told him, he had his chance and he said he didn't think I would actually leave. I'm not scared of him at this point, but he's really got my mind tangled up. I keep thinking maybe it is my fault, I wasn't always the nicest or happiest. Maybe I'm being selfish by just giving up and walking away?


You did the right thing. Stay strong, this is very typical behavior after you leave. I fell for it and went back and it was so much worse and harder to leave the second time. 
You can do this, stop taking his calls. Block his number, block his facebook or anything he uses to contact you.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

You did the right thing. Stay strong, this is very typical behavior after you leave. I fell for it and went back and it was so much worse and harder to leave the second time. 
You can do this, stop taking his calls. Block his number, block his facebook or anything he uses to contact you.[/QUOTE]

I can't just block him out, we have a 3 year old son to share. My work schedule will be more consistent within the next few weeks so I just have to make it that far. Then we can be on a set schedule if he agrees to it. He's upset that I took his son away from him, but when I mentioned that my work schedule was changing to me only working weekends and he would have him then, he said "Well I'm not taking him EVERY weekend." I don't think H even understands how he's being


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Is there someone else that can handle discussions about visits and custody for right now? 

If not, limit your conversations to ONLY your child. If he starts changing topics to your relationship you stop him say that it is not up for discussion and to text/email you when you need to talk about your son. 

I'd stick to written communication so you have a copy of everything if you need to go to court.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Bee29 said:


> he said "Well I'm not taking him EVERY weekend." I don't think H even understands how he's being


Uh huh. 

Sounds like looking after his son might interfere with his dating and hunting plans...


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Is there someone else that can handle discussions about visits and custody for right now?
> 
> If not, limit your conversations to ONLY your child. If he starts changing topics to your relationship you stop him say that it is not up for discussion and to text/email you when you need to talk about your son.
> 
> I'd stick to written communication so you have a copy of everything if you need to go to court.


Not sure what type of phone you have you have but there are free apps that can keep a backup of your text messages. That way if he tries to change what he says you can show him the backup.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

We talked again tonight. He wanted to take our son overnight. I told H my son and I were both tired and I would bring him over in the morning. He got kind of upset, so I agreed to bring him tonight. My mom said I'm still letting him control me, and I said I told her I don't know any other way. He doesn't know where I live right now, so I have no reason to fear he would show up if I didn't bring my son over. But there was still this need I had to not piss him off. 

Anyway, I brought my son over and H started in again with how much he realized he messed up. I told him it was too late. He wanted reasons why I left. So I said I was scared of him because of the threats he made. He told me those words were out of anger and that I don't have to be afraid of him, he would never hurt me. I don't know how to get through to him that if even out of anger, those threats were not taken lightly. 

It hasn't even been a week since I moved out but he thinks he's changed and I need to move back in. I need to talk to the local domestic violence shelter again, because I'm starting to fall for it. I feel like maybe I got an apartment too soon. Like if I would have just "moved out" to a friends house for a bit, I would have received the same reaction and things would be good again. Cuz when they were good, we were great, no fighting, total infatuation, but it was real. I don't know where we lost it.

I guess I'm just looking for support, I'm sorry, I'm not usually this unclear. My mind and heart are in WWIII and I don't know which one should win.......


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Bee29 said:


> I brought my son over and H started in again


All about him.



Bee29 said:


> He told me those words were out of anger and that I don't have to be afraid of him


Makes no difference now. HE SAID THE WORDS. And if he can't control his anger, your first duty is to protect your son from harm or to protect your son from seeing YOU harmed. Too bad he hasn't gotten control of his anger; HE IS NOW SUFFERING A CONSEQUENCE OF HIS CHOICES.



Bee29 said:


> he thinks he's changed and I need to move back in.


Every abuser says THESE EXACT WORDS. Every one. 



Bee29 said:


> I need to talk to the local domestic violence shelter again, because I'm starting to fall for it.


Did you read the book Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men? It will give you all the fortification you need. Buy the book. Keep reading it.



Bee29 said:


> I feel like maybe I got an apartment too soon. Like if I would have just "moved out" to a friends house for a bit, I would have received the same reaction and things would be good again.


Absolutely wrong. Think of something you really like, that's part of you. Like, the only breakfast I like is toast. I'd happily eat toast every day of my life. Now imagine someone told me if I wanted to stay married, I had to stop wanting toast. I might be able to AVOID eating toast, but I'll never stop WANTING it.

Abusive men can't just stop ABUSING. It's their mindset. It's how they think. Their low self esteem drives it, their dysfunction drives them to control or hurt others to keep them doing what makes him feel good; he torments his wife to keep her afraid to leave him, to doubt her own feelings, to believe nobody else would want her. All so she won't leave him.

You being away from him for a week, a month, even a year won't change him. There's a lady on here (Navy) who left an abusive man a year ago; he is STILL making threats and trying everything he can think of to get his own sons to tell him where she's living, so he can go beat the crap out of her and make her come home.

What WILL change him? YEARS OF THERAPY. And that's assuming he hit rock bottom and WANTED to go to therapy. It would require complete reprogramming of his mind. 

That doesn't change in a week. Or a month. Or a year.

Remember, the abuser's NUMBER ONE tool - is charm. Fancy words, charming you, looking pathetic so you feel sorry for him, making promises he will never keep. It's how they reel women in. And how they keep reeling them back in when the woman tries to leave.

Read the book.

And for God's sake, STOP SEEING HIM. He can do without his son for a few weeks, so you can regain your balance without his influence.


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## Annie123 (Apr 27, 2015)

I left my angry and controlling husband too. I was gone for 4 months. At first he kept on with his anger, blamed me for everything, cursed, said some really nasty things but then he calmed down after maybe two months, started admitting everything he'd done wrong, apologized profusely and promised to never do any of those nasty things ever again, promised real changes... and two months after that I returned, thinking he's changed THIS time, NOW he understands. 

Well, he never changed. He only claimed he did to lure me back in and I fell for it. It's even worse now because I never hear the end of it for leaving and abandoning our marriage, while everything he's done belongs to the past and shouldn't be brought up again. He's still in denial, still hasn't done anything to improve his behavior and I know he won't do anything. I've been back for almost three months and I hate every second of it. It's even worse now because I blame myself for believing him and falling for his lies and empty promises and now it's not his fault anymore, it's mine because I chose to believe him and return.

I don't know your husband, I don't know if he's a hopeless case like my husband, but if they are similar at all and I think most angry and controlling men are, then listen to that tiny little voice inside of your head that keeps sending you warning signals. I know you want to believe him and you want to save your family but I'm sure that deep down inside (or maybe not even that deep) you KNOW the cycle will continue. A controlling man will say and promise anything to get you to return to him. DO NOT fall for it.

I don't know if there are any success stories here on TAM from a woman's perspective where a woman leaves a controlling/emotionally abusive husband and then he changes and she returns and they live happily ever after, or at least semi-happily. That's even less likely if we're talking about someone with strong BPD traits. 

Turnera is right with everything that she said and I'm currently reading the book that she mentioned and it's an amazing read. Please buy the book asap, you'll be glad you did. 
Amazon.com: Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men (9780425191651): Lundy Bancroft: Books


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

Good luck Bee and be careful I hope this helps https://www.whengeorgiasmiled.org/centers-support-groups-organizations/ take care
Blaine


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Bee- Can your Mom do drops offs and pick ups for now? I think you should start looking into getting a set court order about which days are yours, which are his with the child. Then you stick to the legal agreement. 

You can end up with a big problem on your hands doing this without a court order. He could decide to not give your son back after a visit and without a court order, he is just as legally able to do that as you are. You would have to then go to court to get your son back. Don't underestimate what a controlling person can do, there have been many cases of a controlling spouse doing it, to try to get their partner back or just to hurt them.


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