# Recovering "sexless" LTR



## FransZwarts (Oct 27, 2017)

Hi all,

I've been lurking the forum for a bit. Time to tell my story.

I'm 30 years, in an LTR of 4 years with a 23 year old girl. During this period we both graduated uni, found good jobs and started living in an apartment we own together.

The first year of sex was very good. She was a bit shy but open to learn things from me, the frequency was excellent. After about a year I graduated, and had to move 3 hours away for a good job.

This, combined with her studying hard for her final few exams led to a (almost permanent) dip in our sex life. Frequency dropped to maybe once a month, and she wasn't into it that much anymore. After half a year I tried to tell her I couldn't be in a relationship with low sex anymore. I felt it was uncivilized to blame it on sex, so I said I wanted more "excitement". After a week of sex and sad girlfriend she asked what the real problem was, I said: basically the low sex. We had some talks, the situation improved a bit but frequency fluctuated between once a week and once a month. But a growing problem was that I felt less and less manly, and in control, and started enjoying sex we had less and less over time. I was still trying different fresh ways to get her aroused, but with less confidence everytime I got rejected. I didn't want to bring up my unhappiness being afraid that it would make everything awkward and a bigger problem.

About a year ago, when we were about to have sex she said she wasn't in the mood, I snapped. I said that sex was very important to me, and that I didn't know where to go with my sexual energy if it wasn't with her. Masturbating only goes so far. She thought counselling wouldn't really help, and suggested I masturbate next to her if I ever needed to release the pressure.

But being an ambitious woman her agenda is pretty full, and I don't really feel good masturbating next to a girl that's half asleep. So this masturbation deal doesn't happen often.

I'm changing jobs and took a month vacation this month. I did a solo trip at the start of the month, and realized my relationship is basically over to me. I'm not looking forward to going back to dating, selling the apartment and living in a less nice place, but the frustration of the last three years is just ****ed up.

I found this forum, read MMSL and some other PUA literature. I recognized very quickly that the alpha part of me was pretty strong in university, but along the way I lost confidence. The last two and a half weeks I did my best to dress better, have better hygiene, take leadership in our relationship in and out of the bedroom, handle chit tests, start a fight/discussion (for a good reason, but before I would have been weaker about my opinion). And we had awesome sex. About six times in two weeks.

She seems happier. On her own initiative she said she liked the sex. She said I look happier. I said that I would like to keep "this vibe going" and she agreed.

Minor issue now is that I'll be starting my new job November 1st. This means much less time to rest and think about how I want to handle situations with her. I'm really scared we'll fall back into the old pattern where she is "too busy" to even let me get her aroused, and I have less energy to be dominant/leading.

Does anyone have tips to prevent this?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Keeping a sex life going with a low-drive partner is a second full time job. Whether it's worth it or not in the long stretch is something you're going to have to decide. It can be exhausting.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Work out and get in amazing shape. Work hard but don't neglect the relationship. Keep working on yourself, it's the only thing you can control. Don't be scared. She may be putting on a show to keep you around longer. She just may not really like sex. She may just not like sex with you. 

You have to give her consequences and follow through if she neglects your sex lives. That may mean you break up and start over. No biggie. It's just life, no one makes it out alive. And if you don't have kids, you're golden. A house/apartment is nothing to dissolve!!


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I would strongly suggest that you have some serious marriage counseling, even though you aren't married. You can call it couple's counseling, but it really will be pre-mariage counseling. The reason is that hey, you have been living & having sex with this woman for 4 years. 

The elephant in the room is "are you two going to get married and when?" It is on her mind, in fact the slow down in sex could have been, "Hell, why hasn't this guy asked me to marry him after 2 years and graduating to a good job?"

Today many couples delay marriage until or after the woman gets pregnant. 

I have some advice for you. If you are saying to yourself why am I not on my own and dating so I can have more sex, just wait untill you have a baby with this woman. The sex will likely disappear for good reason........exhaustion from birth recovery and caring for a new born.

So if you are serious about her, then sit her down and say that you are concerned about the sexual part in your relationship and that has been a big concern on your mind. Tell her that you would like to go see a marriage counselor to see if the two of you are compatible for a deeper relationship and commitment. I will wager she will jump for joy and bang your brains out. Then treat the counseling seriously to figure out if you and she should move forward. Hey 4 years is enough time to figure out if you should marry and if you figure out she isn't the one, then leave her so she can find someone who will marry her.

I suspect that the reason you haven't married her is that you don't want to and that you don't need marriage counseling to figure that out. If that is the case, move on.

Good luck.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I find it distressing that your refer to her as a "girl". There is quite an age difference, and she is pretty young. I'd wait a good long time before making this permanent, if ever. A lot can change in the next few years as she ages and becomes more of an adult.


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## FransZwarts (Oct 27, 2017)

@GuyInColorado: "no one makes it out alive" very true. I'm planning on hitting the gym once my new schedule is clear.
@youngatheart, about getting married already: well we both agreed to take it slow. If everything is ok, there is no rush, right? But in reality I don't see myself becoming grey haired happily with this sex life/attention to pleasure. I didn't want to buy the appartement for the same reason but the rental market was a mess and we needed a house. I've been asking myself what a good moment to break up would be. Deep down I know there is never a good moment.

What do you think we will gain from counselling? I'm afraid it will delay the inevitable. Possibly hurt my position since she knows I'm on my way out.
@Livvie: I'm not sure how to interpret your "distressing". I respect her a lot, we bought an apartment together. I see her as more adult as my little sisters (who are older). But I have a different relation with my sisters and her.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It was you referring to her as a "23 year old girl". You didn't call her a woman, you called her a girl.

I think if you were dating someone your own age, 30, you wouldn't say girl. You wouldn't say I'm in a LTR with a 30 year old "girl". 

I think the relationship will not stand the test of time because she is so young compared to where you are mentally in life.


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## FransZwarts (Oct 27, 2017)

I should have said English is not my native language. In Dutch the word for "woman" can mean either wife or woman. She doesn't like me referring to her as something that might imply we're married. Translation detail. Thanks for raising it.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

Take this with a pinch of salt, but it's kind of true:

The Betaization Process


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Use the universal men's language for a female seven years your junior.... a younger chick. BTW, you've got the age difference about right albeit 23 is a bit young for a relationship


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

I would cut my loses now .

Not worth battling this the rest of your relationship. Even if you get it to come around some it most likley won't be enough and you will always have this struggle. 

Not worth it in my opinion. You are not compatible as a couple sexually. 

The good news is you got out before kids and a house and your lives are so intertwined that you fence sit and mmaybe never escape the missery of being with someone who dosen't desire you.


Also you can learn from this . The take away is if she isn't into keeping her man satisfied in the bedroom then move on. With that said you should be vested in keeping her happy emotionally to get the rewards of her meeting your needs.


Or you can try to find WOMAN



that is just very sexual in nature. But I believe you would have better luck finding teeth on a hen. 

If shes punishing you because you don't make the grade in her eyes now just think how she will punish you down the road after kids. 

Maybe by cheating and taken 3/4 of your $hit while you only get to see your kids every other wk end.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

FransZwarts said:


> @..... [MENTION=6890]youngatheart, about getting married already: *well we both agreed to take it slow.* If everything is ok, there is no rush, right? But in reality I don't see myself becoming grey haired happily with this sex life/attention to pleasure. I didn't want to buy the appartement for the same reason but the rental market was a mess and we needed a house. *I've been asking myself what a good moment to break up would be. Deep down I know there is never a good moment*.
> 
> What do you think we will gain from counselling? I'm afraid it will delay the inevitable. *Possibly hurt my position since she knows I'm on my way out.*
> .......


Hurt your position???????

If you are on the way out, don't string her along...exit stage left.

If you don't exit you are either using her in the worst way or some part of you wants to stay. If some part of you wants to stay; get you and her into counseling to figure it out.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

you are young, educated, know what you want in life. this relationship is just not working out. Luckily you did not marry her!

Part as amicably as you can, and start dating again.
I caution you to not "fall in love with" the first skirt you date, though. take your time to choose wisely this time.


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## FransZwarts (Oct 27, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> Hurt your position???????
> 
> If you are on the way out, don't string her along...exit stage left.
> 
> If you don't exit you are either using her in the worst way or some part of you wants to stay. If some part of you wants to stay; get you and her into counseling to figure it out.


I understand where you're coming from.

My opinion: We bought an apartment together, so owner ship has to be transferred (to her/me or a new buyer) and I need to figure out where I will sleep and store my possessions. I want to be able to focus on the first month of my new job, losing my career over my relationship sounds like a bad deal. Waiting a month or two to get my work situation and my emotions in order should not make the worst person ever.

I wanted to say that she has been stringing along me as well, but actually she has been pretty honest about her view on sex: fun to do occasionally, but low on priorities list. She has compared it to eating potato chips/crisps (US/EN): some weeks you have it twice, some weeks none at all. If I get her in the mood she's happy to have sex, but basically work, family and friends come before sex in terms of time, energy and initiative taking. I guess there is nothing wrong with that, it just doesn't work for me.

Thanks for replying everyone. I'll let you know how this continues.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

I think you two have been honest with each other. 

This person you are with will not change. Work, family, and friends will always come before you. Sex is "low priority" now and always will be either low, or lower. Sex will be
pretty much "over" if you have kids with her. Her kids will take ALL of her energy and there will be NOTHING left for you.

Losing your career over this relationship is a really bad deal. Don't go there.

Negotiate some fair settlement with her on the apartment, and move on with your life. Take time, and find someone who matches your sex drive to marry. That's my advice.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I realize English isn't your first language so some of this may be in the translation but your tone and verbiage really make it sound like she is your sex supplier and not someone that you love and honor and cherish outside of the sexuality. 


If she is basically just your sex giver and you are not happy with the sex and you do not really want to make a home and family with her forever, then this is just wasting time for both you and her. 

I am 53 years old and I had several long term relationships and a number of flings before I got married in my early 30s. Looking back I have a couple of regrets. 

I don't regret any of the relationship I had and I do not regret or bemoan any of the breakups (although a couple were brutal at the time)

I regret two things and they both involve wasting time. 

The first regret is chasing after and trying to work things out with my first love who cheated on me and ultimately dumped me. I spent many months chasing her and trying to get her back. She would lead me on and we would be on-again/off-again for almost a year. 

I don't regret dating her and I don't regret getting dumped by her......I regret the time I wasted chasing her and doing the "Pick Me! Dance."

My other regret is a gal I dated seriously in my mid 20s. It started out fine and she was a good person and a good girlfriend and was pretty good in bed. 

After dating about 6 months or more, I realized she was not "The One" but we had a good and steady sex life and she kept my sex drive from making me become a threat to society so I kept her around as a Sex Giver for a long time before I realized I just simply had to break up and move and find someone else. 

Looking back now that was a mistake. Like you I was at my prime, out of school, good job, no kids etc etc and instead of being out on the market, dating and getting to know a variety of people and finding the right match for me, I was settling for someone I knew was not the right one for me, but who was keeping my tank drained consistently. 

I regret that those times that I was not on the dating market getting to know a variety of people and finding people that were compatible for me. 

Don't be me. If you know she isn't the right one for you, then make the break and get back on the dating market, even though it might mean that you won't have sex as much as you are with someone who isn't compatible with you.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

FransZwarts said:


> I understand where you're coming from.
> 
> ......*I want to be able to focus on the first month of my new job, losing my career over my relationship sounds like a bad deal. *Waiting a month or two to get my work situation and my emotions in order should not make the worst person ever.
> 
> ...


You are not the worst person ever. 

Both you and you girlfriend sound like you share the same priority of work higher than sex/relationship. 

Counseling might help you figure out you priorities for your next relationship.

I have given up opportunities for advancement as it would have stressed my marriage with travel and living in a place she didn't want to live in away from family. Other opportunities for advancement came up.

Good luck to the both of you.


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## FransZwarts (Oct 27, 2017)

@oldshirt on she being my sex provider:
In a monogamous relationship you are each others sex providers after all, right? And this a sex forum so I was focusing on that part of the relationship.

She is a lovely girl, with a positive look on life, can-do attitude, fun to be with in general. She has been a huge comfort over the last four years when I struggled finishing up my thesis, or with job related things. She made sacrifices for me as well, like moving to my new city, three hours away from her old friends and family. We have fun vacations, little dates, my main hobby is cooking and she is very supportive of that. If I would care as little for sex as she does everything would be cool.

It's just that I really enjoy sex. After a weekend with friends I'm tired, but looking forward to sleeping with her. She's just tired. On weekdays we occasionally plan something of a date night, she likes the idea of going out, but not of having sex after. Usually when she hits the bed she's gone in a few minutes. Taking an evening to just massage each other and play with each other sounds like a waste of time to her. It seems like I always have to "trick" her into getting in the mood. Or "demand" her to focus on here and now, us kissing, cuddling, stroking each other.

I really like looking forward to sex, thinking about ways to get her exited. Often it seems counter productive though, because when I do this I'm really looking forward to actually executing it. Then she comes home, stressed, with a pile of overtime work or courses she needs to finish, or has dinner with friends lasting to 10pm, or chores she's been putting off, and I get rejected again or I don't even try.

I really like having sex, taking the time to get her aroused, trying different approaches, seeing how her behavior changes when she gets more and more aroused. But in a lot of cases somewhere during sex she just loses concentration and it's basically over.

I tried for a while to make her orgasm more, but that basically resulted in me not orgasming anymore. I tried backing off. I tried a lot of things. Trying some of the stuff in MMSL actually seemed to help a little bit. But overall it seems we're just not compatible in this way.

All of this just makes me super sad. For the last few years I has happy having someone nice and pretty love me back, but I almost want to hurt myself when I think about that my sex life basically being over for the rest of my life if I stay in this relationship. I don't really feel like her man, but more of the provider for her future babies who should keep his "naughty" feelings in check. Funny reading in some of the comments here that that is probably true.

You all have been very helpful.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

The thing with incompatibilities is that we so often think that we can overcome them, because "everything else is great". When in reality, this is often a huge mistake.

Given that sex is a high priority for you, and is not for her (she's literally said that!), then you know it won't get better.

When there's a sexual mismatch, it ALWAYS goes to the one with the lower drive/interest/priority. Always.

Even when there's a compromise, it's just that - a compromise. The one with the higher drive still won't be having as much sex as they desire, AND they'll know their partner is compromising.

And that's IF they're willing to compromise in the first place.

And even if they do, you can't expect that to last the duration of the relationship.


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