# Inappropriate Friends



## AnonymousShakespeare (Nov 5, 2014)

My H and I have been married for nine years, together twelve years and we have three kids. We got married young, twenty years old. While I won't pretend we didn't have conflicts, our relationship has always seemed effortless. We both work, and because of the cost of childcare, we work opposite shifts in order to not use childcare. At this point in time, we only have one day off together, which is Sundays.

In June, my H started spending every Sunday over a friend's house. This friend hosts a group get together every Sunday. Although I've been told I'd be welcome to attend, I have never been able to because of our kids. They aren't old enough to be left alone. Also, I believe it is healthy for couples to have separate interests/lives, and the Sunday group get together, to me, is time my H can spend unwinding from the stress of life, etc, much like some men play a game of golf or whatever.

Our first problem came from the fact that it isn't just a few hours out of every Sunday. He gets there around noon and doesn't come home till after midnight, sometimes as late as 3 am. So this was in June, into early July that he already knew I was feeling very neglected, for lack of a better word. In addition to spending almost no time together, my H was going through some work issues and was at that time, basically shutting me out.

Towards the end of July, he started talking about one of the friends from Sundays, a girl. We made plans to see a movie with her. He was excited to introduce her to me, and I was excited to meet her. We invited two other friends as well, and the five of us went to the movies. Twice during the movie, I look over and my H and this girl are kicking each other and playing keep-away with her phone. I didn't feel that level of closeness was appropriate and let him know that the next morning. Instead of reassuring me, he ended up getting angry and we had a week long fight.

Since that time, we have been stuck in a loop of me being upset with him being so close to this girl, him making some small improvements/concessions, us getting along again, and then something else happens to cause another fight.

He took her to an amusement park, just the two of them, and lied to me about other people being there. They had been going to the movies together, in a group setting, at least once a week. They "like" almost everything of each other's on Facebook, they play a back and forth app game, they text daily. She is also part of the Sunday group of friends, so they see each other/spend about twelve hours together every Sunday. The physical....play fighting: kicking, punching, pushing, etc hasn't ended.

She has been nothing but nice and welcoming to me, and I like her. She has said to me that she feels like my H is like a brother to her, and he has said he feels like she is a close friend to him and he has no intention of it going further. She is single, and my H isn't her type. It isn't her I have an issue with, it's how my H acts around her.

The two of us have had many into the early morning talks about all of this. As of writing this, he has said that he will only see her on Sundays. No more movies, no more texting every day. He has said flat out that he won't give up her friendship. I have asked him for marriage counseling. He doesn't want to do it. I will be pursuing individual counseling. I cry myself to sleep almost every night, and usually use my time to shower to really cry, since I am alone in the shower without anyone to see me losing it. I barely eat, because I feel sick all the time. Even when things are "good" with us, like right now, I still feel depressed because we've never been this close to ending it. Maybe it is selfish of me to ask him to give up that friendship. (This is a new friend, by the way, not someone he knew and was close to before me.)

He has always had female friends and they have never bothered me. He has never before now, lied to me about them, or spent so much time with them, or basically made it apparent that the friendship was more important to him than our marriage. I think I am fairly low maintenance. I've never minded female friends before, I never cared if he went out with friends three, four times a week. We've always like a lot of the same things, but also had our separate interests.

I don't know what to do anymore. I don't see a solution. I won't be happy unless he gives her up, due to all the history and hurt and everything that has happened with her. But he's said he won't give her friendship up. I believe them when they say they are just friends, I just take issue with how close that friendship seems. And with the lying/hiding and excluding me. I'm not prepared to be alone, or to give him up. It truly hurts that he doesn't seem to care how much this whole thing has hurt me and affected me.

Sorry this is so long. I just needed to write it all down.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

How has intimacy been between your H and you? Any sudden or dramatic changes since his Sunday meetings began?


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## AnonymousShakespeare (Nov 5, 2014)

No changes in intimacy. We both have very high drives, and even after three kids, we are active basically every night. I've tried very hard to separate his friendship with her from our marriage. Just because I perceive that he is choosing her over me (using Sundays as an example, she may not be the reason he is there, or stays so late, but it feels like it to me), doesn't mean that is the case. Whatever problems we have, they definitely do not originate in the bedroom.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> My H and I have been married for nine years, together twelve years and we have three kids. We got married young, twenty years old. While I won't pretend we didn't have conflicts, our relationship has always seemed effortless. We both work, and because of the cost of childcare, we work opposite shifts in order to not use childcare. At this point in time, we only have one day off together, which is Sundays.
> 
> In June, my H started spending every Sunday over a friend's house. This friend hosts a group get together every Sunday. Although I've been told I'd be welcome to attend, I have never been able to because of our kids. They aren't old enough to be left alone. Also, I believe it is healthy for couples to have separate interests/lives, and the Sunday group get together, to me, is time my H can spend unwinding from the stress of life, etc, much like some men play a game of golf or whatever.
> 
> ...


He is choosing her over you that is pretty clear. I am going through the same thing Me & my H had lots of arguments like that & the whole time they were having an A If you think somethings not right start doing some detective work. All I had to do was check his phone & there it was..


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## AnonymousShakespeare (Nov 5, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear you've been through the same! I think the thing that makes it so difficult for me is that I truly believe they are just friends and that it will go no further. I'm just devastated by the lying and the hiding. I have to believe that, on some level, he doesn't want to lose me, as he seems to be making an effort to make things better. I just can't seem to move past this and into trusting again. Every time he's home and texting, I'm convinced it's her. Every time he goes to the movies, I have to wonder if he has invited her but just not told me. When we are getting along, yes, I love that, but I feel like I'm waiting for the next "drama" or the next fight. I feel so hurt over all this....I can't even imagine how I'd feel if I thought he was actually physically cheating on me. He feels that because it isn't physical, it isn't cheating, but he spends an awful lot of time with her, etc. It feels close to cheating. I shouldn't have to beg my H to spend time with me, and I feel like (with Sundays) that's what I've been reduced to doing.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yes, it sounds like something is going on between them.

I'd make it clear you are not ok with this and if she is married, out her to her husband.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if you were doing this with a male friend your husband would be pissed.


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## AnonymousShakespeare (Nov 5, 2014)

I think this is the only thread I have? It's the only one I've posted...I just joined, so if I've double or triple posted...sorry.

I have made it very clear to him that I'm not ok with this. He wants me to find a way to be ok with their friendship and trust that it will go no further. What it feels like to me, is that he wants to do whatever he wants to do and he wants me to either be okay with it, or, not be okay with it and just don't show it, to keep the peace.

She is single and interested in a very specific type of guy, and my H doesn't match her interests.

My H has said if the situation were reversed, he'd trust me with male friends (I don't have any male friends). To me, it isn't (or, it wasn't in the beginning) a trust issue. Of course, now it is, after he's lied and I've been hurt.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> Our first problem came from the fact that it isn't just a few hours out of every Sunday. H*e gets there around noon and doesn't come home till after midnight, sometimes as late as 3 am.*
> 
> Twice during the movie, I look over and my *H and this girl are kicking each other and playing keep-away with her phone*. I didn't feel that level of closeness was appropriate and let him know that the next morning.* Instead of reassuring me, he ended up getting angry and we had a week long fight.*
> 
> ...


Ugh. I feel for you. I apologize as I responded initially with having only glanced over it ut now I read it all. 

MAJOR RED FLAGS.

WHOLLY INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR ON BOTH OF THEIR ENDS.

Your husband is spending one of his only days off all day with her, lying about it, and being physical. NOT cool. NOT cool at all. 

Have you ever told her to her face that you feel she is being inappropriate? I would suggest doing this. She is not your friend. You say she is kind to you and you aren't bothered by her, but by him, but I disagree - she is doing dirt here, too. 

Your husband of course is responsible for doing this and you really need to lay down the law. It's not ok. He is putting your marriage in jeopardy and killing your relationship w/ this behavior.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I think this is the only thread I have? It's the only one I've posted...I just joined, so if I've double or triple posted...sorry.


It was my goof. I got you confused with another poster. Sorry.



AnonymousShakespeare said:


> My H has said if the situation were reversed, he'd trust me with male friends (I don't have any male friends).


Hahahaha yeah right. That is a boldface lie and something that nearly every person in this situation being called out says. "I wouldn't have a problem if you X..." It's a LIE. He would be LIVID. Trust me.


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## AnonymousShakespeare (Nov 5, 2014)

I have talked to this girl as well. I wanted to sort of clear the air between us and nicely ask her to back off. That's when she said she definitely understood why I would be worried, since they go to movies, hang out on Sundays, text, etc. Then of course, the reassurance that she thought of him as a brother (I've seen her with her brother, and she does do the whole kicking, punching. Shoving, joking things with him. And with other people, including me. It seems to be the way she is). 

I hoped after talking to her as well, things would "cool down" with their friendship, but she seems to be taking her cues from my H, who is doing the bare minimum.

He has brought up some past behaviors of mine, for lack of a better word. They include me sitting on the lap of a gay friend in high school (my H and I were in a group of very touchy-feely teenagers in high school, so it wasn't like I was the only one behaving that way), a then male friend stopping by our house out of the blue about ten years ago, and a (on my part) drunken hug with a mutual male friend. My argument/defense, was (1) those were all one time things, once I was aware that those things bothered my H, there hasn't been a repeat, due to respect for my H and (2) those weren't me continuing a close friendship with someone with things that bothered my spouse. So yes, I definitely know he wouldn't be ok if the situation were reversed.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I believe them when they say they are just friends


Don't.

This is an EA (emotional affair) that already has or will soon be, a PA (physical affair). You "might" want to discretely monitor his communication with her for a couple of weeks to confirm where it is at this point - before you confront him with an ultimatum. You can get a lot of help with that here. The flip side of doing that, is it gives them more opportunity to move toward a PA if it hasn't already happened. But make no mistake, he has openly disrespected you by flaunting this in your face.

The bottom line is that if he doesn't agree to end this friendship and spend his free time with you, you should implement the 180 to detach from him and see an attorney to start the divorce process. If that doesn't turn him around, keep going until the D is final.

Something we often say around here - *You have to be willing to end your marriage to have the best chance of saving it.*

Sorry you're here. Keep posting.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I have talked to this girl as well. I wanted to sort of clear the air between us and nicely ask her to back off. *That's when she said she definitely understood why I would be worried*, since they go to movies, hang out on Sundays, text, etc.


Because she knows it's inappropriate.



AnonymousShakespeare said:


> since they go to movies, hang out on Sundays, text, etc.


All dating behavior. This is what I do with people I date. Not married men. 

She's not your friend and not a friend of your marriage. A woman who had any iota of compassion would have backed way off, especially after you voiced concerns. 

Your husband is even worse. 

This is why you need to lay down the law.



AnonymousShakespeare said:


> He has brought up some past behaviors of mine, for lack of a better word. They include me sitting on the lap of a gay friend in high school
> a then male friend stopping by our house out of the blue about ten years ago, and a (on my part) drunken hug with a mutual male friend. My argument/defense, was (1) those were all one time things, once I was aware that those things bothered my H, there hasn't been a repeat, due to respect for my H and (2) those weren't me continuing a close friendship with someone with things that bothered my spouse.


It's called deflection and gaslighting. Mostly every cheater does it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

badmemory said:


> But make no mistake, he has openly disrespected you by flaunting this in your face.


:iagree:


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I had round and round debates with my H during his EA. "She's just a friend" blah, blah, "Not cheating if no sex" yada yada. What helped was some concrete data to open his eyes. I pulled up the phone records and made a spreadsheet showing the number of calls and texts to OW and number to kids and me. I made a sort of diary with dates, times, copies of emails, FB posts and texts I had access to. Trust me, it's very hard for someone to defend bad behavior when the truth is staring you in the face on paper. If he cares about his family, he will feel shame and embarrassment, and get a glimpse of the pain he's causing.

I also politely exposed to OW's SO and to my H's family. That kinda kills the allure of the relationship. It's not so fun when everyone knows you're acting like a dbag. My kids are also grown and found out and put my H through the ringer. None of this is fun or easy for a woman to do, but it works.

And I was ready to divorce, told him to choose. My H knew it. I think that's important. But I do realize that I'm older, with my own income and grown kids. It's a lot easier for someone in my shoes to say "F.U. I'm out." But bottom line, I told my H that if he wanted to act like a single man, he would do it as an officially single man.

With all of that said and done, today I am in a very strong marriage of well over 20 years with a man I adore and who is my best friend (but will never fully trust again). This experience forced us to have better communication and create very clear boundaries.

You are going to get a lot of advice on here from people who have been through similar experiences. Whether you divorce or stay married, you are being given the tools to end this "friendship"...and trust me, no matter what it needs to end. Be strong and take action!


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## Working1 (Sep 28, 2013)

Since this women presents that her relationship with your husband is appropriate, it can be assumed that either she is duplicitous, or she lacks the boundaries and judgement to know otherwise.

Either way she has got to go, and that would be based on either of those two assumptions.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I second yeah right it is time for exposure to his close friends and family.
Stick to the facts and ask them for support.
You can do this.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I'm going to tell you something important.

Your marriage cannot tolerate a) your husband maintaining ANY friendship with this girl and b) your husband having a separate social life outside his family and c) you and your husband not being able to spend a significant amount of time together.

Why is it that your husband seeks things that he should be getting from his wife and his marriage from outside his wife an marriage? Is it that you are not giving him a pleasant situation to be a part of or is he just not a good guy. That's what you need to figure out in a hurry.


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## AnonymousShakespeare (Nov 5, 2014)

I guess at this time, I'm just not strong enough to lay down an ultimatum. I'm afraid he would choose her over me, and in fact, we've had the ultimatum conversation. He said he wouldn't be choosing her over me but that he couldn't live with someone who tried to dictate to him who his friends were. It seems to me that no matter what I do, our relationship will be over and that isn't my goal here. I want him back (although he'd argue that I haven't lost him, it feels like I have), and I have no idea how to go about getting him back.

I've tried everything in my power to make him want to spend time with me. He complains that we never go anywhere or do anything, other than stay at home and watch tv. We both like to play video games, so I've been suggesting games instead of tv lately. He gets home from work at nine, and I'd been ready for bed about ten (opposite schedules), I've been consistently staying up till 11 or a little later in an effort to spend more time together. I've made more of an effort to get babysitting for nights out on weekends. I've stopped cataloging each and every thing that happens to make me upset and tried to focus on the parts that are good still. I know that I could snoop around, but I resist doing so because I want to trust him. I'm starting individual counseling next week in an effort to cope with all of this. I've talked with him about how I feel till I'm blue in the face, I've talked with this girl too. Yes, they are only seeing each other on Sundays now, and the going to movies and amusement parks and such are a thing of the past. There is still a lot of hurt though, and I can't seem to move past it.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I see codependency issues with you here. Your fear of divorce is part of what is driving your husband's behavior. He's using this fear against you. 

Under these circumstances, there will be no ultimate solution to your problem if you take divorce off the table.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

OK, so we know the things you aren't willing or ready to do yet. Here are some non-confrontational things to do for now.

1. Hire a babysitter and start going with him on Sundays. Explain that you want to spend more time with him. If he doesn't like the cost of the babysitter, you both can come home sooner.

2. Quietly snoop. You don't want to do it, but you need to. You need to know how much contact he still has with this woman. Keep track of it. I still snoop occasionally on my H...but now he knows it.

3. Does this chick have a husband or boyfriend? If so, find him and politely explain their relationship and ask if he has any concerns. Don't tell your H you're doing it.

Question - You say you're afraid he will choose her. Why would you want to be with a man who makes you his second choice? My hope for every BS, whether EA or PA, is to value themselves. It makes you a better wife, mother, friend anyway.

I hope you find the strength to take action. What he's doing is wrong and not fair to you or your children. Good luck!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

AS you are right you cannot control him...
however
You can control what you will or will not put up with.
At some point you will be sick and tired of being sick and tired everyone has their breaking point.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I'm sorry to hear you've been through the same! I think the thing that makes it so difficult for me is that I truly believe they are just friends and that it will go no further. I'm just devastated by the lying and the hiding. I have to believe that, on some level, he doesn't want to lose me, as he seems to be making an effort to make things better. I just can't seem to move past this and into trusting again. Every time he's home and texting, I'm convinced it's her. Every time he goes to the movies, I have to wonder if he has invited her but just not told me. When we are getting along, yes, I love that, but I feel like I'm waiting for the next "drama" or the next fight. I feel so hurt over all this....I can't even imagine how I'd feel if I thought he was actually physically cheating on me. He feels that because it isn't physical, it isn't cheating, but he spends an awful lot of time with her, etc. It feels close to cheating. I shouldn't have to beg my H to spend time with me, and I feel like (with Sundays) that's what I've been reduced to doing.


This is how it happened with my H & I feel like now I should've stopped it from the start. By the time I decided to do some snooping they had fell in love. They started out being friends. If he is willing to fight with you rather than stop seeing her even though he knows it's hurting you I would say she means a lot to him.. Your Gut feeling is very rarely wrong..


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

You haven't drawn the line, or put your foot firmly down on his inappropriate relationship with this woman because you fear that he will choose her over you.

If that's the case, you may have already lost him. If he has gotten so attached to the OW that he'd leave you over her how does that reflect on what he thinks of you and your marriage...

The time to act on this is NOW. The longer that you wait, the worse that it's going to get.

He may not be her Mr' Right, but eventually he could be her Mr. Rightnow.

If he did leave you over this "friendship", they've either had sex, or he's thinking that there's a chance to have sex with her in the near future.

He can deny it all he wants, but there's no way that if the tables were turned, he'd put up with you playing footsies with another man in front of him. Let alone what happens when you(they) were alone with the "friend".

You have to ask yourself, if he leaves you over this, was he ever really there to begin with?...


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

He at the very least has poor boundaries and a lack of respect for you. The fact he said 'he refuses' to give up her friendship is a big red flag that this may go much deeper than you suspect.

You've stated your point of view, and he at least agreed to only seeing her on Sunday's with no chat between. Hold him to that, and be ready to whip out the ultimatums if he violates it. Find a friend to babysit for you one Sunday night and show up unexpectedly and see how he reacts. Come later at night, 8 or 9 o'clockish. 

My Ex Wife and I had a good relationship, and I never suspected she would do the things she did. It took me a long time and a lot of evidence to be convinced. One thing I did wrong that I'll urge you to pay attention to. I confronted too early and too often. I should have spend more time with my eyes open and my mouth shut. 

That doesn't mean you accept the behavoirs, it just means don't tip your hand. Don't tell him you worry about what he is doing Sunday night at midnight. Just tell him you want him to hold you in his arms when you fall asleep and when he isn't there you miss him. If he gets angry at that, worry.

There are some good posts here about surveliance. Read through them, start keeping your eyes peeled. But don't confront on circumstantial evidence. They explain it away and get better at hiding it. 

Good luck, I hope it turns out to be nothing.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> My H and I have been married for nine years, together twelve years and we have three kids. We got married young, twenty years old. While I won't pretend we didn't have conflicts, our relationship has always seemed effortless. We both work, and because of the cost of childcare, we work opposite shifts in order to not use childcare. At this point in time, we only have one day off together, which is Sundays.
> 
> * This is the traditional or now normal aspect of most middle class relationships. If you weren't both working one would be working an obscene amount of time. Getting Married at a young age is irrelevant and since you lasted this long the inner conflict of wanting the relationship to succeed won out over the battle of restless youth. The one day off is mostly consumed with overall family time, right, time with the children, time for yourselves but very little too I imagine. Then there are the other duties, home repair, laundry, shopping. In the past 5 to six years this has been the norm, Right, only getting more stressful after the addition of each child. All normal results for a growing family, do not let this be used as an excuse for his behavior.*
> 
> ...


 He is in it hard core, and your passive approach is letting him know your hurt, yet immobile to the situation and will not coerce him into changing anything about this. Any man or woman who refuses to end a friendship is just friends with the other person. The lying, the getting angry, I also bet you have been made likely to blame for the arguments as well. With nowhere to turn it led you to us. Lets do it. 

First off you seriously need to accept what is happening, and I mean it. You have allowed this to go on to much and with your resolve sapped away by your unwavering trust you feel like you've hit rock bottom. Now, find a mirror, take a drive, whatever, and tell yourself this. I do not deserve this. Under no instance did you or have you done anything wrong to earn this disrespect. This was his choice, not his. 

Find an individual named weightlifter and read his evidence gathering thread, it has vital information to catching a cheater. Before you do anything else, you need to ignore the affair. Say nothing more about it, challenge nothing and keep you mouth shut. If you want to catch a rat you've got to lay quiet and let it come to the trap. Given how they have been confident around you while in front of you this may very well be easy as evidence will be right out into the open. For now, simply observe. See if he locks his phone, deletes his internet history, hides things. But do not confront, it only makes them better at hiding it. Read Weightlifters thread. 

 This is where to start. Catch the rat. He is a rat, a cheater, and we know you still love him right now and will have a hard time accepting it. Please take heed, this is a normal feeling and yet a common mistake. You need to get started today. Time to rise, are you ready? You are not crazy, now get up!


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

The easy answer is - this is distressing you and very inconsiderate. He needs to reign himself in and you've every right to insist that he does so.

The hard part is in understanding the fundamental differences between genders. The tendency to think we're the same (apart from genitalia) and to 'judge' each other by our own standards. Of course, the following is not universally true but following the 'blueprint' has always worked for me.

Men, secure ones at least, don't mind their SOs having friends but if they have sex with them that's EVERYTHING. To our primate brains, that's having another man's child. Hence why women get ****-shamed by both genders when they stray. It tears at the fabric of what both sides hold dear.

Women, on the other hand, are 'nesters'. If hubby goes out with the boys, gets drunk and has sex with a stripper, so long as it's a one-off event women are far more inclined to rug-sweep it than hubby would if she did it. Women feel far more threatened by EAs because they interfere with hubby's dedication to the 'nest', potentially permanantly. Essentially,,,


- MEN. Do what you like, talk to who you like, just don't sleep with anybody cuz that'll destroy me.

- WOMEN. Play golf, have your fun with friends, but don't invest too much time and/or money in them cuz that threatens my security, the security of our children and the nest we've built.


I'm sure plenty will disagree but, I think, if you bare those fundamental differences in mind, accept that you've paired with a creature that isn't just another you with tìts/a penis, and adapt accordingly, you won't go far wrong. 


THIS hubby is threatening the OPs security and needs to wise up and respect the things she holds dear - the nest and family unit. Soil the nest and she's liable to abandon it and start another with somebody else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> My H and I have been married for nine years, together twelve years and we have three kids. We got married young, twenty years old. While I won't pretend we didn't have conflicts, our relationship has always seemed effortless. We both work, and because of the cost of childcare, we work opposite shifts in order to not use childcare. At this point in time, we only have one day off together, which is Sundays. *You two need no less than 15 hours a week together. Sunday is just not going to get it.*
> 
> In June, my H started spending every Sunday over a friend's house. This friend hosts a group get together every Sunday. Although I've been told I'd be welcome to attend, I have never been able to because of our kids. They aren't old enough to be left alone. Also, I believe it is healthy for couples to have separate interests/lives, and the Sunday group get together, to me, is time my H can spend unwinding from the stress of life, etc, much like some men play a game of golf or whatever. *Going to this event every now and then is ok. Every weekend is not advisable nor respectful of you. *
> 
> ...


They appear to be more friendly then I would put up with if my W was conducting herself in the same manner. IMO you are sharing your H. Your H is enjoying the attention. OW I'm certain is also having fun with it. 

I'll make it short and sweet. OW has to go.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP, When your husband says that he cannot be with someone who controls his friends and his life have you responded that you cannot be with someone who won't? When he made vows he agreed to live within a set of boundaries which included respecting your feelings and honoring them. He is not.

Think of this, what is a wife? A best friend, a confidant, a lover. How many women can fill this role? He chose one, you and now he wants another? Or worse yet, he wants some from her and some from you? You cannot allow this to be if you want a healthy marriage.

You may feel like you will lose him if you stand up for yourself but you stand just as good a chance, if not more so, of losing him if you do not. He may still be there physically, loading up on cake but any emotional bond will be gone. Are you okay with that for the rest of your marriage? The precedent you set here will be followed henceforth. Unfortunately if he cannot set his own boundaries then you are forced to or to move on and let him flounder along without you.

You see, you cannot stop from losing him if that is his intent, whether consciously or not, but you can stop from being a participant in his game. If you stand up and he bolts, then he was gone anyway but, if you stand up and he realizes what an ass he's been, then your marriage can move forward. It cannot move forward as it is and, as you two spend more and more time apart, your connection will fade to the point of nonexistence. So by not standing up to him you are not saving your marriage. I am sorry but that is true.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> He said he wouldn't be choosing her over me but that he couldn't live with someone who tried to dictate to him who his friends were.


Classic deflection. He has no concept of reasonable marital boundaries. No husband that understands the importance of them in a marriage would do this - if he values his marriage.

My WW didn't understand the importance either. I accepted her constant GNO's for a number of years. The difference from your situation was, I didn't care that much; at least to a point. I was glad to have her out of the house most of the time. But I should have cared. She was cheating on me for most of that entire period. Now I understand why boundaries are important, and I don't care so much if she does or not. She knows I won't accept her crossing them anymore. 

You should suggest to him that if that's the way he feels, then he's free to find another wife, like him; one that doesn't respect marital boundaries. But you do. That's what I should have done before. It may very well have prevented her from cheating, or we may have divorced over it; but I regret allowing it.

Like tom67 suggested; you tell him you can't control what he does, but you can damn sure control what you will accept from him.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I guess at this time, I'm just not strong enough to lay down an ultimatum. I'm afraid he would choose her over me, and in fact, we've had the ultimatum conversation. He said he wouldn't be choosing her over me but that he couldn't live with someone who tried to dictate to him who his friends were. *MY VOWS INCLUDED FORSAKING ALL OTHERS. YOUR H VOWS WERE I DO AS I DAMN PLEASE? * It seems to me that no matter what I do, our relationship will be over and that isn't my goal here. I want him back (although he'd argue that I haven't lost him, it feels like I have), and I have no idea how to go about getting him back. *YOUR H IS PLAYING EMOTIONAL GAMES WITH YOU.*
> 
> I've tried everything in my power to make him want to spend time with me. He complains that we never go anywhere or do anything, other than stay at home and watch tv. We both like to play video games, so I've been suggesting games instead of tv lately. He gets home from work at nine, and I'd been ready for bed about ten (opposite schedules), I've been consistently staying up till 11 or a little later in an effort to spend more time together. I've made more of an effort to get babysitting for nights out on weekends. I've stopped cataloging each and every thing that happens to make me upset and tried to focus on the parts that are good still. *YOU APPEAR TO BE JULIE McCOY THE ENTERTAINMENT DIRECTOR OF THE LOVE BOAT. YOUR H NEEDS TO BE PART OF FINDING THINGS TO DO AS WELL. WHEN WAS THE LAST DATE NIGHT HE SCHEDULED? WHEN WAS THE LAST DAY TRIP AS A FAMILY DID HE PLAN? SITTING ON THE COUCH WAITING TO BE ENTERTAINED IS WHAT YOUR H LIKES TO DO. YOU ARE COMPLYING. YOUR H NEEDS TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION. NOT THE PROBLEM. * I know that I could snoop around, but I resist doing so because I want to trust him. I'm starting individual counseling next week in an effort to cope with all of this. I've talked with him about how I feel till I'm blue in the face, I've talked with this girl too. Yes, they are only seeing each other on Sundays now, and the going to movies and amusement parks and such are a thing of the past. There is still a lot of hurt though, and I can't seem to move past it. *FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES...YOUR H HAS ALREADY APPEARED TO HAVE MOVED ON. HE IS ACTIVELY CONDUCTING DAY TRIPS WITH OW. IT SHOULD BE YOU.*



Don't be a doormat! You are sharing your H.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Time to do some real c#nt blocking. If you don't, he'll be filling hers. Either go with him Sundays or he don't go. Period. And stay between him and her. 

I'd require No Contact with this woman and he never be alone with any female. His high drive needs to focus on you, not spreading it around.

Stand firm with your rules and be watchful for the next year for enforcement. He'll settle down if you're sharp.

Shock and awe. Let him know what he'll be losing if he does this any more. No contact, see, movies, phone, email, Facebook, nothing. VAR the car too. 

Require Complete access to all his accounts, passwords, phone everything. People confuse privacy and secrecy in marriage. Privacy is closing the bathroom door. There is no secrecy in marriage. None. Complete unconditional transparency. Check your phone bill for messaging texts, phone calls. Computer emails too. Sent and deleted emails. Audit time . Part of enforcement, love and care of marriage.

Nail her to a wall, talk to her BF/H. Action, not words. Him too. Action not words. His actions matter. His words, not so much.

If he disagrees, tell him you're trying to protect your marriage and just what is it he's protecting?

He's on a slippery slope and good adolescent feelings right now. You gotta pull him off that vector. Sometimes a good Hubbie needs a 2x4 across the forehead.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

I'd be really p!ssed off if my wife and I had just ONE day a week together and she spent it with another man while I watched the kids. That is bull$hit.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

He introduced you to her to get implied approval. Damn...


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## Working1 (Sep 28, 2013)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I'm sorry to hear you've been through the same! I think the thing that makes it so difficult for me is that I truly believe they are just friends and that it will go no further. I'm just devastated by the lying and the hiding. I have to believe that, on some level, he doesn't want to lose me, as he seems to be making an effort to make things better. I just can't seem to move past this and into trusting again. Every time he's home and texting, I'm convinced it's her. Every time he goes to the movies, I have to wonder if he has invited her but just not told me. When we are getting along, yes, I love that, but I feel like I'm waiting for the next "drama" or the next fight. I feel so hurt over all this....I can't even imagine how I'd feel if I thought he was actually physically cheating on me. He feels that because it isn't physical, it isn't cheating, but he spends an awful lot of time with her, etc. It feels close to cheating. I shouldn't have to beg my H to spend time with me, and I feel like (with Sundays) that's what I've been reduced to doing.



He doesn't want to lose you. You are meeting his needs. The OW is meeting different needs of his. He doesn't want to lose her. Losing either of you will be painful at this point. She doesn't want to lose him. You don't want to lose him either. So wherever you go, the three of you are there.
Hmmm.... somebody needs to put their foot down. And since you are the only one who wants anything to change, it will have to be you.
You see, they don't need anything to change, everything works perfectly for them, only now that you are complaining, you are messing it all up for them.

If only you would stop complaining, then they could progress in their relationship until they are completely committed to each other. Then there would be no more room for you. Your H will only be open to losing you at that point. They need the time to make this happen. They want you to sit on the side and let it happen. 
That is the way emotional affairs go, you see they have done nothing wrong, nothing 'physical', so they can continue.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Why don't you check the credit card bills on days he went out with her somewhere. Look for hotel bills, or cash withdrawals in the days before the amusement park. They might not have gotten there. Car trouble you know. Car got them as far as a hotel.

Find nothing? No harm. He takes issue? It was his behavior that sparked this.


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## AnonymousShakespeare (Nov 5, 2014)

I saw the receipt for the amusement park they went to. He came home at a decent time that night and talked about the amusement park. I keep going back and forth between feeling like I can be okay with their friendship because it is just a friendship, and feeling depressed because I feel certain aspects of the friendship are not appropriate,disrespectful to me, and I feel like he doesn't really care how hurt I am.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Communication is vital. 
VAR the car. Weightlifters sig has info. He needs to understand how you feel.

Opposite sex friends? Not a good idea as you NOW have learned. Maybe nothing happened. Maybe too soon for that. A BJ in a car is pretty easy to do. Even more.

I am not accusing him, just getting you to see and understand you need to step up and stop this before something happens.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

No one dates my spouse. Never. No way. That person would be well, let's say re-arranged.

Your gut feeling is talking. Listen.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I saw the receipt for the amusement park they went to. He came home at a decent time that night and talked about the amusement park. I keep going back and forth between feeling like I can be okay with their friendship because it is just a friendship, and feeling depressed because I feel certain aspects of the friendship are not appropriate,disrespectful to me, and I feel like he doesn't really care how hurt I am.


Boy, oh boy! I went through these same thoughts at the beginning. I wanted to be that modern woman who simply knew OSF's could be done. My H deserved to have friends, right?

I don't believe that anymore...

Let's remove this woman for a moment. Let's focus on just his time away from family. Your husband goes out without you, all day and night, on the only night a week you have together. He goes to fun places like amusement parks without you. What do you do? Stay home with the kids because you don't have a sitter. Is his personal time more important than yours? When do you go out without him, without the kids? Marriage is a 50/50 partnership. Even without this woman, what I'm hearing in your posts is unacceptable.

Now let's add the woman back in. He is spending the time with her that he is supposed to be spending with you. Friends should be enhancements, not replacements. He is replacing you with her as his life buddy. It took a while for my H and I to work through that. A big thing for guys is "recreational compatibility". They want to have a buddy to run with. After marriage, that buddy is supposed to be the wife.

I know that in my case, I was focused a lot on the kids, and didn't fulfill that need like I should have. I was failing as a good wife and life partner. HOWEVER, that did not give him free reign to replace me with someone else for his emotional fulfillment. Someone to talk to, laugh with...while I still cleaned his dirty underwear.

I understand your feelings. I've been there. You can replace the locations and activities but my story was similar.

Step up and fix it. You have every right to remove this woman from your marriage.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Q tip said:


> He introduced you to her to get implied approval. Damn...


Heed the Q tip. Speaking in truths!


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Boundaries... He needs stronger boundaries. Much stronger.

Boundaries are not a prison. Boundaries protect a couple from real evils in the world. Boundaries enable you to open up and invest all your love and energy with the person you love and married. Boundaries keep the noise of others out of your lives. 

With boundaries, a couple has so much power over the world. The power is immense. Not having them, all is lost - then he/she is in a prison.

Boundaries keep toxic people and poisons out of your lives and marriage. Weak boundaries are a threat.

Folks just need to see this.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

yeah_right said:


> Boy, oh boy! I went through these same thoughts at the beginning. I wanted to be that modern woman who simply knew OSF's could be done. My H deserved to have friends, right?
> 
> I don't believe that anymore...
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## AnonymousShakespeare (Nov 5, 2014)

I almost never get to go out with friends, but the major difference with the two of us is that I am a true introvert. I'm much happier at home and he's happier out, surrounded by friends. Before now, I always "let" him go out without me with friends because I didn't feel the need to have him attached to my hip 24/7 and not have any fun just because I wanted to stay home. That being said, in the past, he was always respectful of my needs and we were able to find a balance and both be happy. When I did go out, it was typically with him and/or with our friends. Sometimes I would go out with friends alone, but it was rare. I also never got the feeling that he didn't care about me and my feelings before now.

While ideally, I would like the friendship in its entirety to end, I also know that I cannot control his actions, so I would be happy if the friendship just existed in a more appropriate manner. Since our last talk,when I asked him for counseling, there have been some major improvements. He definitely is trying and listening, which gives me hope that we can move past this. The thing that hinders me now is a lack of trust. I don't know how to just wake up one day and trust him again. I'm afraid to bring up any of my concerns, because things are going well now (besides my depression), and I don't want to rock the boat, so to speak.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I saw the receipt for the amusement park they went to. He came home at a decent time that night and talked about the amusement park. I keep going back and forth between feeling like I can be okay with their friendship because it is just a friendship, and feeling depressed because I feel certain aspects of the friendship are not appropriate,disrespectful to me, and I feel like he doesn't really care how hurt I am.


Because he does not care. There in lies the problem. If he was concerned for your feelings he would cut it off. The "friendship" is being flaunted in your face.

You should be the one going to the damn amusement park. If you can't get a sitter then you both stay home and find a activity together. This is what FAMILY does.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

If nothing is going on, then he is placing himself in a dangerous situation. Sounds like he has develop something or is starting too. He needs to learn about boundaries and he needs to respect you when you show him your concern. He is getting that dopamine high when he is probably around her. 

You probably get it from guys that try and flirt or pay a lot of attention. Imagine when you were first dating your husbands and how great that felt during the honey moon period. The thrill of the chase and the playfulness. I would secretly keep an eye on him. Remember never to trust your partner completely. A lot of bs figure that one out. 

Hopefully things go well for you.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I almost never get to go out with friends, but the major difference with the two of us is that I am a true introvert. I'm much happier at home and he's happier out, surrounded by friends. Before now, I always "let" him go out without me with friends because I didn't feel the need to have him attached to my hip 24/7 and not have any fun just because I wanted to stay home. That being said, in the past, he was always respectful of my needs and we were able to find a balance and both be happy. When I did go out, it was typically with him and/or with our friends. Sometimes I would go out with friends alone, but it was rare. I also never got the feeling that he didn't care about me and my feelings before now.
> 
> While ideally, I would like the friendship in its entirety to end, I also know that I cannot control his actions, so I would be happy if the friendship just existed in a more appropriate manner. Since our last talk,when I asked him for counseling, there have been some major improvements. He definitely is trying and listening, which gives me hope that we can move past this. The thing that hinders me now is a lack of trust. I don't know how to just wake up one day and trust him again. I'm afraid to bring up any of my concerns, because things are going well now (besides my depression), and I don't want to rock the boat, so to speak.


Since he is being more attentive to your concerns look for his friendship to go underground. 

Does H text or have other means of communication with the OW.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I almost never get to go out with friends, but the major difference with the two of us is that I am a true introvert. I'm much happier at home and he's happier out, surrounded by friends. Before now, I always "let" him go out without me with friends because I didn't feel the need to have him attached to my hip 24/7 and not have any fun just because I wanted to stay home. That being said, in the past, he was always respectful of my needs and we were able to find a balance and both be happy. When I did go out, it was typically with him and/or with our friends. Sometimes I would go out with friends alone, but it was rare. I also never got the feeling that he didn't care about me and my feelings before now.
> 
> While ideally, I would like the friendship in its entirety to end, I also know that I cannot control his actions, so I would be happy if the friendship just existed in a more appropriate manner. Since our last talk,when I asked him for counseling, there have been some major improvements. He definitely is trying and listening, which gives me hope that we can move past this. The thing that hinders me now is a lack of trust. I don't know how to just wake up one day and trust him again. I'm afraid to bring up any of my concerns, because things are going well now (besides my depression), and I don't want to rock the boat, so to speak.



I am an introvert. I type a lot on here but trust me, I am a big time introvert. My H is an extrovert. Still not a valid excuse. Right now the goal is to remove the cancer in your marriage...this woman. After that, you can try to heal and build up strength. But the cancer will kill if left untreated.

It is not appropriate to be playing footsie with a female friend. You don't get to go on one-on-one private dates with a female friend. You don't trust him because you know she is bad news. He doesn't get it yet. Your gut is screaming to you...listen up! You see the change in behavior. Your intuition is not wrong.

Your concerns are just as valid as his in this marriage. You have every right to bring them up. When you get married, there's this thing that must happen called compromise. You don't get to be married and still live the single life (except for those few couples who may agree to that in the beginning, but that discussion belongs in another section of TAM).

If you bring up the argument that he would be mad if you ran around with a guy like that, he'd say "Well, I know you wouldn't do that so it's not the same". B.U.L.L.!!!!!!!

If you're not willing to stop this "friendship" yet, please at least start going with him on Sundays.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

yeah_right said:


> I am an introvert. I type a lot on here but trust me, I am a big time introvert. My H is an extrovert. Still not a valid excuse. Right now the goal is to remove the cancer in your marriage...this woman. After that, you can try to heal and build up strength. But the cancer will kill if left untreated.
> 
> It is not appropriate to be playing footsie with a female friend. You don't get to go on one-on-one private dates with a female friend. You don't trust him because you know she is bad news. He doesn't get it yet. Your gut is screaming to you...listen up! You see the change in behavior. Your intuition is not wrong.
> 
> ...


Like x100


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I almost never get to go out with friends, but the major difference with the two of us is that I am a true introvert. I'm much happier at home and he's happier out, surrounded by friends. Before now, I always "let" him go out without me with friends because I didn't feel the need to have him attached to my hip 24/7 and not have any fun just because I wanted to stay home. That being said, in the past, he was always respectful of my needs and we were able to find a balance and both be happy. When I did go out, it was typically with him and/or with our friends. Sometimes I would go out with friends alone, but it was rare. I also never got the feeling that he didn't care about me and my feelings before now.
> 
> While ideally, I would like the friendship in its entirety to end, I also know that I cannot control his actions, so I would be happy if the friendship just existed in a more appropriate manner. Since our last talk,when I asked him for counseling, there have been some major improvements. He definitely is trying and listening, which gives me hope that we can move past this. The thing that hinders me now is a lack of trust. I don't know how to just wake up one day and trust him again. I'm afraid to bring up any of my concerns, because things are going well now (besides my depression), and I don't want to rock the boat, so to speak.


You're almost there. True, you cannot control him. However you can control how you feel about this and what you do. He either acknowledges your feelings and changes his behavior that he controls or not. You control you. He needs to understand consequences. Nothing should be more important to him than you. Nothing.

You'll see this with his response. Then you can settle down or raise the stakes. Do not rugsweep.

His actions caused your mistrust. 100% trust is not likely achievable. He needs to earn this. Your counselor needs to be on the ball and push this.

Btw, HE rocked the boat.


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## UserNameAgain (Nov 5, 2014)

I have been lurking on TAM for a while and it is with a very heavy heart that this is my 1st post. If you want ANY chance of holding onto your marriage (or what rebuilding what remains of it) this “friendship” MUST END and it must end NOW. THIS WOMAN IS NOT YOUR FRIEND (sorry for yelling but I am begging you to listen to me).

Without getting into too many details, my H had a female friend at work (“X”) that he was becoming very close to. At first this did not bother me since he has many female friends and I have many male friends. But for some reason this particular one started to bother me (my “gut” was talking). His solution was to bring her around me more often so I could get to know her better. 

We met her husband and started doing things the 4 of us. He always told me if he had been out with her (“X and I picked up some stuff at Target today during lunch.”). He did not hide their relationship at all. Then I did catch him in a few lies about where he had been. Explained away. Angrily. Very defensively. Over time my gut periodically “screamed” at me but I didn’t have hard evidence and dismissed it. As time went on X became one of my closest friends. Then a number of things didn’t add up in the space of a few weeks. I went high and low tech surveillance on his arse (weightlifter, even though I had not read his excellent post yet, would have been very proud).

D-day was 30Mar2014 11:57am. I found a secret e-mail account that told me everything I needed to know (and more). Piled waist high in proof of a (primarily) EA/ (sometimes) PA that had been going on for ~4.5 years (yes, YEARS). My gut was right all along. A hollow victory. All of those years of gaslighting, blame shifting, mind f**king and flat out lying have taken their toll. I am now on heavier duty antidepressants than I was originally as well as meds for the panic and anxiety attacks (I know there are people here that object to meds; please don’t threadjack and you won’t change my mind anyway). Point being, you don’t want to be me. Please nip this in the bud. 

I have to go now but if you would like for me to post more later I would be happy to. 

Sending strength and cyberhugs (if you wish to accept them).


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Threadjack...

Big hug to UserNameAgain

End of threadjack...


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

First, you have to built up your self worth. From what I read, I don't like the sound of your husband dismissing you like that. A healthy relationship will take into consideration each spouses concern. Sounds like he doesn't respect you. 

Second,, try and be around them until you build up your self esteem. Engage her in conversation when she is around. Disrupt their bonding time. Think about it this way, when two people are in a world of their own, it becomes intimate. That is when a lot of bonding happens. 

Third, build up your boundaries and re-enforce them. Healthy relationships requires healthy boundaries. Humans will seek out what gives them that dopamine rush. During the honeymoon faze of your relationship with your husband, you get that high when your around each other. Some call it infatuation, or romantic love. A marriage should be based on mature love, with romantic love added to keep the attraction alive. 

Fourth, never trust anyone 100%. Just looking at the cheating statistics, there is no one in this day and age that should believe that their marriage is affair proof. You can only lower the chances.

Lastly,, find something that makes you completely happy outside your marriage. It will prove to you that you can be happy without him. If your afraid of losing your marriage, and you have to put up with his disrespect, then you may seek help with codependency. Mature love, includes respect, and empathy. You have to create an identity outside your marriage, and not let your marriage define you completely.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Lastly,, find something that makes you completely happy outside your marriage. It will prove to you that you can be happy without him...
> 
> ...You have to create an identity outside your marriage, and not let your marriage define you completely.


Yes to this entire post, but especially this part. And your kids can not be counted. Motherhood is still about doing stuff FOR them. What are you doing FOR you?

I used to focus my world on the kids. But guess what...they grow up and leave. What are you going to be doing then? I now believe that focus has to be on marriage first. If all works well, I'll be with H more than my kids in my senior years. Since my H's EA, I have taken up some awesome hobbies, stepped out of my introverted comfort zone a bit and realize that the happier I am, the better wife and mother I become.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> I saw the receipt for the amusement park they went to. He came home at a decent time that night and talked about the amusement park. I keep going back and forth between feeling like I can be okay with their friendship because it is just a friendship, and feeling depressed because I feel certain aspects of the friendship are not appropriate,disrespectful to me, and I feel like he doesn't really care how hurt I am.


Screw that feeling guilty stuff. You've got no reason to feel that way. 

Playing keep away with the phone-running around together-going to the amusement park, on and on. This guy is a self-centered jerk. Grown married men don't act this way. Not responsible ones, anyway. An occasional football day is fine. Every week carrying on while you watch kids is not. Add a girl in, and that's BS. (or as we used to joke SMFBS -serious*****...)

He's kind of a bully, too. Bringing a girl around and expecting you to cave in to his little ego trip. This guy needs to see the cups and saucers flying at him, followed by you with the frying pan.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

AnonymousShakespeare said:


> He took her to an amusement park, just the two of them, and lied to me about other people being there. They had been going to the movies together, in a group setting, at least once a week. They "like" almost everything of each other's on Facebook, they play a back and forth app game, they text daily. She is also part of the Sunday group of friends, so they see each other/spend about twelve hours together every Sunday. The physical....play fighting: kicking, punching, pushing, etc hasn't ended.


 This is called dating. Dating involves doing things with a person of the opposite sex in order to get to know them better. Dating often does not at first involve sex. At this point he spends much more free time enjoying himself with her instead of you. They clearly are clicking. They are giving the two of them the opportunity to fall in love with each other. People can control their actions, but they cannot control how they feel. If contact with her continues, one day he may walk in and give you the "i am sorry, I never meant for this to happen, but I am leaving you because I am in love with her" speech. Although the odds are real that they could fall in love with each other, it is not a sure thing. But married people are suppose to stop dating other people of the opposite sex, to reduce the odds that it will happen. It is unfair for him as your husband to be rolling the dice with this other woman with the only possible loser being you.



AnonymousShakespeare said:


> She has been nothing but nice and welcoming to me, and I like her. She has said to me that she feels like my H is like a brother to her, and he has said he feels like she is a close friend to him and he has no intention of it going further. She is single, and my H isn't her type. It isn't her I have an issue with, it's how my H acts around her.


 Of course she is being nice to you. What else would you expect her to do, as she to retain access to your husband so that she can try to steal him away from you? The percentage of Other Women that tell their affair partner's spouse their true intentions is almost zero. For that matter, the percentage of cheating spouses that tell their spouse their true relationship with the other woman is also almost zero. They are for sure in at least an emotional affair (EA), and EA is cheating. Him telling you that out of principle you cannot tell him who his friends are is bull. Marriage is all about both of you agreeing to be controlled by your marriage vows. The important part of those vows is that he will let no one come between you, and that he will put no one before you. 

The longer that you wait to act the lower the odds that he will pick you when you tell him to cut off all contact with this other woman. You must act now. You must demand full no contact (NC) with this other woman, along with complete transparency (including both of you sharing all passwords). You must be willing to file for divorce and mean it if he does not agree.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

AS, his "friendship" with this woman has to end. He is dating this woman whether you or he will admit it. If he can stoop so low to lie about being with just her then what else is he capable of doing? If you are afraid of setting boundries because you "might" lose him guess what, you already have. Don't assume nothing is going on because he has introduced her to you. My WW introduced me to the POSOM once when I met her for lunch at work one time. And don't fool yourself with "he's not her type". You let this flirting and friendship continue to simmer and 6 month or a year from now suddenly he's the only man that truly "gets" her and then if it hasn't gone physical it suddenly will.

It sucks you are having to fight for what is your's already. Your husband needs to grow up and see what he is doing to you and his children. Time spent with "she's just a friend" is time he should be spending with you and the kids. He really needs his ass kicked and get with reality.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This is cheating. And it could go physical. Sorry, but it could.

If not with her, with someone else.

Your husband is not 15, so should act like an adult.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Didn't read it all. Sorry.

I know the male mind, and I have zero doubt he wants to have sex with her. ZERO.

So the men are done responding now. I never did figure out how the gals brains work. So ladies, what's on HER mind? Does SHE really think this is just a friendship or does she want him too? Keep in mind, she must know that all she has to do is say the word and she's his.

You women DO know that all of your male "friends" want to have sex with you, right? And I am serious as a heart attack with that statement.


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## Tabitha (Jun 17, 2014)

He’s the father of THREE kids and he works—why the heck is he taking time to go to the movies and amusement parks without either you or one of his kids??? He’s “DATING” her! He’s getting that thrill of the “get to know you” phase and doesn’t want it to end. Like many men who’ve never encountered this situation before, he thinks that as long as he’s not sleeping with her, he’s not doing anything wrong. You need to find a way to open his eyes about the slippery slope he’s on. He should not be spending personal, alone time sharing “dating activities” and intimate conversations with a friend of the opposite sex, especially who is also of the OPPOSITE marital status. There’s some good online articles (and books!) about this slippery slope and the Emotional Affair. He needs his eyes opened to realize it’s not just you being a jealous, controlling wife…..that most wives would be upset about what he’s doing. Find a way of getting him to read them, perhaps? What about his family or a trusted friend who could help show him the sliding into impropriety he’s doing?

Good luck. My husband has female friends that he shares too much with (conversationally) and that’s bad enough for me—I couldn’t imagine if he was actually physically spending non-working hours with any of them.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

You mentioned he'd be getting home at midnight, even sometimes as late as 3 a.m.? What is he doing there that keeps him so late? Is there a lot of drinking going on as well? If so a DUI is a possibility.

This friend who's house he goes to every Sunday - is he married or single? Are you friends with any of the other women there?


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> This is cheating. And it could go physical. Sorry, but it could.
> 
> If not with her, with someone else.
> 
> Your husband is not 15, so should act like an adult.


What do you mean COULD!!! It has already and all that remains is the proof but really, is it even needed at this point? He said he will not, under any circumstances give her up as a friend, and 15 hours over at a friends house with her!!!! I seriously doubt they are playing cards or Halo or whatever else. The only game that is being played right now is called infidelity. Everything fits. Her job is to kill this with whatever means needed.


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## Pinkpetal (Jan 2, 2014)

Iver said:


> You mentioned he'd be getting home at midnight, even sometimes as late as 3 a.m.? What is he doing there that keeps him so late? Is there a lot of drinking going on as well? If so a DUI is a possibility.
> 
> This friend who's house he goes to every Sunday - is he married or single? Are you friends with any of the other women there?




I was wondering the same thing ^ 

Does this single OW have her own place? Can you be sure that H actually IS at the get together til 3am and not off with her for the last few hours before heading home? From noon til midnight is a pretty full-on Sunday social for someone to host every week. Particularly with most people off to work Monday morning. 
I wouldn't discount them secretly meeting up in their cars after they leave the get together early either. Is there someone who could help verify H activity?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

1). Estimating 25% chance full PA.
2). You are acting like a doormat. Stop it.
3). A lone male and a lone female going someplace together one on one is called a date. You are allowing your husband to date another woman who is closer to his personality type. Stop it.
4). If you need to look around, top link in my signature. Above all do not accuse him of anything without proof.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> 1). Estimating 25% chance full PA.
> 2). You are acting like a doormat. Stop it.
> 3). A lone male and a lone female going someplace together one on one is called a date. You are allowing your husband to date another woman who is closer to his personality type. Stop it.
> 4). If you need to look around, top link in my signature. Above all do not accuse him of anything without proof.


Effortless brilliance on this concise list. Although the estimate is more likely 80% - 100%.


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## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

WOW -I am so sorry that you are here but I encourage you to take the blinders off. You really need to do this soooooon!!!!

I cannot add anything constructive to what has already been said but I want you to understand that your husband and this OW are not just playing footsy. 

While I would never stray on my wife, I have been approached by a number of other women with a direct request to have sex with them. This is the reality of the world that we live in and your H and this OW are in this world.

Your really need to get more details soon if you want any chance of saving your marriage.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Your husband is dating this woman. He refuses to give their "friendship" up. He is willing to lose you. They are flaunting their affair in front of your nose because they can. Can you live like this for another 20 years? Ask yourself. It's your decision.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

So you like to stay home...that's great, I am that way too.

If he needs to go to amusement parks, he can take his kids.

I am having a really hard time understanding how you aren't way more p!ssed.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> So you like to stay home...that's great, I am that way too.
> 
> If he needs to go to amusement parks, he can take his kids.
> 
> I am having a really hard time understanding how you aren't way more p!ssed.


 She's passive, non aggressive and wants desperately to believe this isn't true, just like all others who come here, well most others, who put up their story for opinions and advice and they need not but re-read over what they wrote down and there you have it. She is pissed per se but in a very deflating way, and remember they have children, she works full time and there is a house to take care of. Despite her Dipsh1t husbands antics these things still need to be taken care of and she still needs to go to work, a fact that can be even more deflating since the only time to recover or try to attack this situation is one day a week, a day off for both she wants to spend with him while also being torn on how to spend the time; Does she attack this or just try to make the day a good one and see what happens. 

Lets get her on the right path, the healthy one and guise her in the right direction to a more solid standing so she can launch an offensive against this "Friendship".

OP, I know what you are going thru, reason, logic, negotiating, promises, cuddling, admiration, anything you try will end in failure. You will soon reach a point where that deflating, defeated and tired feeling will give way to anger, which will disguise itself as irritation or annoyance and if your Husband see's this he will defuse the situation quickly to keep you in check. Anger, not violence mind you, with consequences will get the results you need, although maybe not what you are looking for. In time, you will have so much pent up anger you can uppercut this mother Fuggah into the stratosphere. Get you game face on, plant your feet, and say no more. Today.


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## Skyinthemoon (Nov 7, 2014)

I don't believe I am in any position to give marital advise but from my experience, your H is crying out to you for more attention and fire. If you two allow this to continue, it will become physical. Why have you never joined him on one of these afternoons? Go be apart of what he wants to share with you and see to it that the following Sunday you two do what you want to do. I sometimes feel that in any relationship there are alarm bells that we switch ourselves off not to hear. They take us out of our comfort zone and force us to make changes in a life that we have become accustomed to living. 

I might have missed something in an earlier posting but being new on here is difficult. I don't ever have the time to catch up all the postings and conversations so if I have missed something, please excuse me. It is unintentional.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Skyinthemoon said:


> *I don't believe I am in any position to give marital advise but from my experience, your H is crying out to you for more attention and fire.*


Yeah..., I think you might want to get a successful resolution from your own situation before dispensing too much advice.

Her husband is not crying out for more attention and fire. He's daring his wife to divorce him for flaunting his EA right in her face.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

badmemory said:


> Yeah..., I think you might want to get a successful resolution from your own situation before dispensing too much advice.
> 
> Her husband is not crying out for more attention and fire. He's daring his wife to divorce him for flaunting his EA right in her face.


Bingo


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

If they are just friends and he's done nothing wrong, why did your husband lie about going to the amusement park with her alone? He lied because he knows it's inappropriate to take another woman out alone. 
I can't stand when they say "she's like a sister/brother to me". Like that makes ok. She's not his sister so he should keep his hands to himself. My H use the ole "she's one the guys....I don't even see her as a girl" Excuse. Regardless if he's doing anything wrong or not, he knows the relationship is causing his wife pain and anxiety. That alone should be enough to give the relationship up.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

AS,
I want to address your remarks regarding your feeling guilty, being attached at the hip and being an introvert. I will bet dollars to doughnuts that your tendency to be introverted is something you've dealt most of your life right? That would mean that you were that way when you met, began dating and eventually married your husband.

So, if you would be so kind as to tell me, how many loaded weapons were pointed at your husband during your marriage ceremony? If you cannot remember exactly then you might wish to go look at some of your wedding pictures to help refresh your memory. Go ahead I'll wait....(humming the theme to Jeopardy).......................

Okay, if your answer is one or more, then your guilt is well deserved and your feeling badly for the restrictions you are trying to place on your husband is justifiable. If, however, the number is 0 then that would mean that your husband was neither forced nor coerced into marrying you and that his choice to do so was made of his own volition and desire. Therefore any guilt that you feel is totally unwarranted.

He made the decision to marry you, as you were, for who you were and till death due you part and if he had any honor and decency at all he would be taking you and the kids to the amusement park, the zoo, the lake to fish, the park to ride bikes or fly kites, to the movies or any one of a plethora of activities a man can do with his family on any given Sunday.

You need to stop feeling as though you are to blame for his no longer being able to date other women. Him asking you to be his wife and accepting your answer and subsequently giving his word in a vow to you is what's responsible for the end of his dating life, not you.

Now the hard part. Since he obviously has no integrity and does not honor his own vow, then you have to call him out on it and make him honor it. If not, you will eventually lose him since he will think it's okay for him to date other women.


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