# How do people deal with this?



## C4aH (Jun 27, 2018)

My husband cheated on me. I hate saying it, thinking it, typing it. It’s embarrassing and it deepens the wound each time. My heart physically hurts ALL of the time. The pain never goes away. In my head I constantly play images of my husband with another woman. I can see him on top of her as if I was the woman yet somehow still on the outside looking in. 

When does the pain stop? When does the embarrassment stop? 

I have read over and over that telling friends and family is a must. I hate it. I wish no one else knew. The majority of my husband’s friends new that he was cheating on me before I did. I spent time with them, while they knew and I didn’t. They knew what was going on while I was totally unaware. It’s humiliating. Now trying to heal from this seems harder because the more people that know the harder it seems to let go. We can’t just walk away from it, there is always going to be many people who know about it. Even my husband’s family knows about it. His parents, brother, some other relatives all know. There is no escaping it. Even though no one says anything, in my head they are thinking about it when I see them. It feels like there is no privacy. 

Some people know why he cheated and that makes it even worse. Those are our own personal struggles and I hate that other people now know. I wasn’t a good enough wife. It feels like we may as well broadcast it over the radio. 

I can't kiss him...because I picture his mouth on another woman's crotch. I can't touch his hands, because I picture them rubbing another woman. I wonder about the hand that he held. I hate cuddling with him, because I wonder if he liked cuddling with her more. I can't have sex with him, because I know that it was better with her. How do I live up to that? How do I have sex with my husband knowing he's had better, while married to me. I suck at sex. People say you can't, but I do. Too many people outside my marriage know that too. I feel like I'm dying inside. I wish I could wake up from this nightmare. I barely eat or drink because I have no energy left for it. 

The night that I found out I slept at a male, mutual friends house. Nothing happened, I slept on the couch. He’s an extremely nice guy and offered me to stay the night. I knew he was attracted to me but also knew that he wouldn’t make any advancements. My husband doesn’t know that I stayed there. I don’t think he’d be happy about it, and in away it feels like my own secret that somehow makes it equal. That is how messed up my thinking as become. I have gone out for coffee with that friend a few times because he is one of the only people I can easily talk to. I have developed feelings for him and now I am distancing myself for him. Never in any of my relationships have I ever developed feelings for another man. It makes me feel horrible, but it’s nothing in comparison. Sometimes I can’t help but think that I could so easily do what my husband did to me and make him feel how I feel. I would never in a million years do that, but just that I sometimes think that I _could_ makes me feel worse. 

I want to stop feeling embarrassed over what my husband chose to do. I want to stop feeling shame for his choices. I want to stop always wondering what he’s doing. I want to stop creating movies in my head about what he did. I want to feel like a normal person again. I want the emotional and physical pain to stop. When does it stop……


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sorry you are here

1. what did you do when you found out? It seems like you have rug swept the whole thing
2. Why are you carrying the shame of WH cheating, there is no excuse for cheating ever, it is nothing to do with you, it is a flaw in your WH
3. Hold your head high, your WH should be the one ashamed of his actions, most won't tell him to his face, but people normally think less of cheaters and probably feel empathy for you
4. I suggest you go for IC to help you
5. What has your WH been doing to help you move on? If he has not been doing any heavy lifting, then you have to consider whether you want to stay married to him, deal with this in counseling
6. Has he cut all contact with OW, has he written a no contact letter? Has he bent over backward to help you heal
7. It is normal the way you feel, only time will remove or reduce those feelings
8. I know you might be tempted to get back at your WH but do not cheat, it will not make you feel better


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## C4aH (Jun 27, 2018)

aine said:


> Sorry you are here
> 
> 1. what did you do when you found out? It seems like you have rug swept the whole thing
> 2. Why are you carrying the shame of WH cheating, there is no excuse for cheating ever, it is nothing to do with you, it is a flaw in your WH
> ...


I don’t want to be here… 

What is WH? My husband?


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## C4aH (Jun 27, 2018)

We are still together. He sometimes sleeps in another room but that makes me feel worse. He's both the person that I want to support me, and the person I hate the most. We are not back to normal and it's not forgotten. He wouldn't have cheated if he didn't have a reason to. I knew he was unhappy and still couldn't fix it. 

My husband wants to move on. He doesn't think we should be together if we can't move on. I don't know how to move on. He wants to put it in the past. He has said that he won't talk to her anymore. He hasn't sent her anything. He blocked her on facebook and changed his number. 

I wouldn't cheat... Sometimes I just think that I _could_. I wouldn't.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

C4aH said:


> My husband cheated on me. I hate saying it, thinking it, typing it. It’s embarrassing and it deepens the wound each time. My heart physically hurts ALL of the time. The pain never goes away. In my head I constantly play images of my husband with another woman. I can see him on top of her as if I was the woman yet somehow still on the outside looking in.
> 
> When does the pain stop? When does the embarrassment stop? YOU shouldn't be embarrassed -- your husband should. HE is 100% at fault for cheating -- NOT YOU!! Yes, you may have had issues in your marriage but HE is the one who cheated -- that is 100% on him. There is a flaw in HIM that caused this. If he had any backbone, and things were that bad, he should have divorced you. HE BETRAYED YOU -- you did nothing wrong or to be ashamed of.
> 
> ...


Is the other woman married? You need to expose her also.
VERY sorry your ass-of-a-man husband is putting you through this. Do NOT let him rugsweep the issue (oh, let's just get past it and move on). HE needs to put in some serious work if he wants to stay together. YOU did nothing wrong, he did. HE needs to do a TON of things to try to make this work. He needs to realize how much he hurt YOU and what he can do to help YOU try to get past this. If you don't see that amount of dedication to it, then your reconciliation will never work. You SHOULD look at meeting with some lawyers to see what your options are and NO you don't need to tell him anything about it. Also, you should look into getting some counselling for yourself.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

C4aH said:


> I don’t want to be here…
> 
> What is WH? My husband?


A few you will see:
WH -- wayward husband, i.e. the cheater husband
BS - betrayed spouse (in this case unfortunately, you)
OW - the other woman, aka POSOW -- piece of sh*t other woman
R- Reconcile/reconciliation
D - divorce
MC -- Marriage counselling
IC - individual counselling


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

C4aH said:


> We are still together. He sometimes sleeps in another room but that makes me feel worse. He's both the person that I want to support me, and the person I hate the most. We are not back to normal and it's not forgotten. He wouldn't have cheated if he didn't have a reason to. I knew he was unhappy and still couldn't fix it. BULLSH*T. HE is the reason that he cheated -- this is HIS FAULT. A good moral person would have worked on the issues with you, not cheated. IF you couldn't resolve them, then he should have divorced you. He took the cowards way out.
> 
> My husband wants to move on. Of course he does -- he wants to hit the "easy" button and just forget that it happened. THIS is not remorseful which you need to see him being if there is any chance at staying together. Do NOT let him rug sweep this.He doesn't think we should be together if we can't move on. I don't know how to move on. He wants to put it in the past. He has said that he won't talk to her anymore. He hasn't sent her anything. He blocked her on facebook and changed his number. Do they work together? If so, he needs to quit and get a new job. If they work together, he will still see her. Notice what is happening 'HE" wants to move on, "HE" wants to put it in the past. What is this ass doing to help YOU? Does he realize what HE did to hurt YOU? He isn't showing any remorse and without this, you should divorce him
> 
> I wouldn't cheat... Sometimes I just think that I _could_. I wouldn't.


Good for you. YOU have morals, unlike your cheating husband. It doesn't help to stoop to his level.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Good News/Bad News : the pain never fully stops ~ but in time it lessens!

Do "the 180," and I would recommend that you immediately go see a good family law attorney to fully advise you of your rights in bringing this sham of a marriage to a close. You deserve far better out of life!

And to hell with your mutual friends who knew all about his incessant infidelity in the first place ~ fact of the matter is that they were never really your friends!

Sorry to see you here, but you are now in the midst of friends who have once been where you are now and can offer worthwhile advice to you!*


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

1. You don't have to be around his friends and his family. Cut them out of your life because they don't deserve to be in it.

2. You think you suck at sex. Why? Because your husband says so? Is he your first partner? Determine if it is a lack of interest or techniques. Both can be addressed. Realize that it may not be you - it might be your partner or the combo of you and him.

3. It isn't your job to fix his unhappiness (it isn't doable, anyway). That's his job.

4. Concentrate on your well-being. You can't mentally process this if you don't eat and sleep.

5. Back away from the male friend.

6. Think about getting counseling for yourself and your husband needs to, also. Not marriage counseling - too soon for that. 

There is no fast fix so gird up for the long haul.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Your WH needs a 'come to Jesus' moment.

1. Ask him to move out as you sort out your emotions. Tell him you are not rug sweeping nor moving on, till he goes to IC and sorts himself out and makes an effort to sort out the mess he created. Until you see some effort, then you don't want him around. YOu have to be strong and stand up for yourself, take back control of your own life.

2. Do the 180 on him, no contact, no texting, nothing. 

3. Get IC to sort yourself out, if you strengthen yourself emotionally, you may discover you are too good for him and don't want him back. You are suffering now because your useless WH has done nothing to help you

4. Go and see a lawyer, see what your options are, even if you do not proceed with divorce it will help you get back in control. It may also give him a major wake up call.

5. Your family will support you. Cut the disloyal friends out of your life, refuse to entertain them, be where they are etc. Tell them as much, don't hide this, confront it. Tell him you want nothing to do with his family either for now, you may learn to forgive in future, but it will be on your terms.

6., Your WH also needs to hear from you that you are not going to move past anything till you are good and ready and it may be with or without him, he has no right to call the shots, the outcome is up to you and you have not decided what to do. Tell him exactly what you told us about feeling disgusted that his hands and mouth and **** was inside someone else. I dont think he realises the damage he has done. Tell him! Then kick him out. Take time away from him. It will help you gain some clarity.

Do you have kids?If so, he sees the kids based on your convenience, no communication except about the kids.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

C4,

Marriage is 50/50. Infidelity 100% on the cheater. Your WH had a dozen option to take other than an affair. 

How long ago was the affair? From your first post, it seems as if your WH just want to rug-sweep the entire thing. This rarely works for the Betrayed Spouse (BS). 

BTW, 2 things first...

1) STD screening
2) See a Lawyer


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

C4,

There's so many thing when it comes to this heart-breaking/wrenching situation so I would like to tackle one aspect at a time to maybe get you thinking in a positive direction. First of all, sorry you are here. I'm nearing the end of a divorce in about 2 weeks here, where STBXW cheated, fell in love, blamed the marriage issues on me and us not being compatible after 18 years and then essentially choosing divorce, a new house and a hopeful new life with 50/50 kids custody between us. The pain is a hurt worse than death because you lose your life (that you knew and thought was) but you are still breathing. 

It's ok to feel how you are feeling about the pain, that is normal, it's something that doesn't go away for a while and surely not on it's own (without help and support from family, friends and counseling).

The issue I want to tackle. You seem to place blame on yourself for the marriage issues and giving him the ammo to go out and look for what he 'needed' elsewhere. Issue are one thing, what he did because of it is pure BS. So there's that. Can you explain why think you are to blame? I think we can help reassure you after hearing the answer that, none of it is reason for adultery.

Also, his strategy for moving on SUCKS! Sorry, he doesn't get to call the shots in how reconciliation works. If you both want to reconcile in a true way, he can expect effort from you but to just let go of what happened and to 'move on'. Sorry dude, that ain't how a healthy reconcile works. This SOB has very little remorse if any and even though he has made steps to make contact harder with AP, I have found out the extent, the lies and the ways that APs will continue the game. He may be done with her but again, his feelings and entitlement of just moving on .... He can shelve that idea in his UnicornVille, same place where the affair took place in f'n Fantasyland. If you do reconcile and you are the one pulling the weight, it sets up an awful dynamic that could lead to more heartache down the road.

Lastly, C4, I feel you, all of the people that have been in your shoes do and we are here to help, even if the advice seems bold or counter-intuitive at times, there are some vets in here that have been through this. The pain stems from the utter betrayal but it also hits you in heart and psyche because you start to doubt yourself and everything you have done, which is why cheaters have a lot of power when they blame the affair on what they weren't getting at home. F that, still no reason to cheat. Maybe a reason for counseling and a lot of work or maybe even more drastic a reason for divorce but never a reason for cheating. Look forward to hearing back from you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

If you don't have kids move on with your life will be MUCH better. It's easier to get over love then it is infidelity, especially if the cheater doesn't want to do the work.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Oh boy. 

There's just NOTHING more demoralizing than doing the "Pick me Dance" and offering reconciliation to a remorseless, lying cheater who should be tossed out the front door on his ass.

Not only is Prince Charming perfectly *fine* with justifying his sleazy affair, but he's actually managed to get YOU to believe that it was all your fault. He's quite the prince, isn't he?

Turn off the music and stop dancing. He's a remorseless POS who doesn't deserve another second of your time.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

C4ah,

Get a polygraph for your WH, wayward husband, he is still lying by omission/minimizing.

Expose the OW to her H or SO, also her family, work etc.

Have your WH sign a post-nuptual.

This isn't the kind of thing you can just rugsweep and wake up the next day feeling ok, it's the kind of thing which is never forgotten particularly when your only get a partial story or one that makes no sense.

Tamat


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

C4aH said:


> My husband cheated on me. I hate saying it, thinking it, typing it. It’s embarrassing and it deepens the wound each time. My heart physically hurts ALL of the time. The pain never goes away. In my head I constantly play images of my husband with another woman. I can see him on top of her as if I was the woman yet somehow still on the outside looking in.
> 
> When does the pain stop? When does the embarrassment stop?
> 
> ...


What you describe is exactly why so many cheated on spouses cant stay with the one who did this. if this happened to me, I highly doubt that I could ever have sex again with him, nor trust him. IF there is no trust then what is left?

There is no reason for you to feel shame or embarrassment, he was the one who did it, but it was terrible that so many knew but not one decent person thought to tell you. 

Have you thought about having a time apart? It must be hard to think about what you really want when he is there all the time reminding you. Pleas do eat and drink, no good will come from making yourself physically ill.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

C4aH said:


> We are still together. He sometimes sleeps in another room but that makes me feel worse. He's both the person that I want to support me, and the person I hate the most. We are not back to normal and it's not forgotten. He wouldn't have cheated if he didn't have a reason to. I knew he was unhappy and still couldn't fix it.
> 
> My husband wants to move on. He doesn't think we should be together if we can't move on. I don't know how to move on. He wants to put it in the past. He has said that he won't talk to her anymore. He hasn't sent her anything. He blocked her on facebook and changed his number.
> 
> I wouldn't cheat... Sometimes I just think that I _could_. I wouldn't.


He cheated because he has low moral values and no integrity, nothing to do with you. Have you had some good marriage counselling? Has he worked hard in restoring that trust? Set strong boundaries with the opposite sex? Given you full access to his phone etc 
He needs to know that this will take years to work though, if you can at all. How long ago did this happen?


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## anagapesis (Jun 27, 2018)

Hi C4aH, I have been checking in on this forum for about 3 years now...The advise has been fantastic (but also scary)
I found out 3 years ago that my husband had been having an affair (about 1 yr) and i can totally relate to what you are feeling. 
I also cant bear the fact that many people knew of his affair before me and I still feel completely embarrassed about it.
x

My husband and I have been together for 30 years (30 years!) he is most definitely a player (for want of abetter word) I found out thorough intuition more than anything (Powerful this intuition thing !) anyway he had been seeing the OW for about 1 year when i found out and at first as they always doo he said it was just a drunken one night stand (as a lot of women (and men) on here understand thats a crock of bull) I decided to stay and try to work it out but just over the last yr I have realised that there is no getting over the betrayal.

He wants everything to be just dandy !! "i've made a mistake...Lets just move on"....Go F*** ....,you made a HUGE mistake how can we just move on.?


Back to the reality of things like you feel...I cant touch him, show any affection, sleep with, kiss, or even just have that "I want to love you feeling" WHY...Because I don't want to get hurt again, feel ashamed again, have people talking behind my back again...
Seems to me that men can have affairs and be praised for it (by their male companions) and Women can't ..(JUST WRONG for a woman to upset the family.)

Why would anyone (including myself/yourself) put themselves so far down the pile that they want to be with a person that treats them so badly (I am still obviously asking myself this question !!!
)

We Have been... Hurt, Betrayed, Used, Disrespected, WHY ARE WE STILL WITH THESE MEN ?

I wish you well on your journey and hope you have more courage than I do.

XXX


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

anagapesis said:


> Hi C4aH, I have been checking in on this forum for about 3 years now...The advise has been fantastic (but also scary)
> I found out 3 years ago that my husband had been having an affair (about 1 yr) and i can totally relate to what you are feeling.
> I also cant bear the fact that many people knew of his affair before me and I still feel completely embarrassed about it.
> x
> ...


Why ARE you still with these men. Have some self respect. Men like your husband will never change or learn until they see some consequences, until their wives stand to up to this and say, no, I am not accepting this. I am not gong to let you treat me this way and lie and cheat and deceive. All I see is that you are staying with them regardless. That for them, they have lost nothing.


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## C4aH (Jun 27, 2018)

I don’t even know what to call her…  The names that I want to call her I can’t. I hate saying “the woman my husband slept with” . She knew about me. She knew that my husband was married with a family. Neither of them cared… She isn’t married and has no kids. She is an on/off ex-girlfriend of my husband from 15-19 years ago. They got back in contact 7 years ago, and started sleeping together for 6 months and ended it 4 months ago. 

My husband has been unhappy with our sex life from the beginning of our relationship. The so-called human that he was with was his “best” sexual partner, and I guess she still is. He doesn’t want to answer my questions, like was the sex better (even though I know the answer) because he thinks it will do more harm than good. He said he would tell me, but believes it will just hurt me more. It’s like I want the pain. I KNOW the sex was better with her, it’d be better with pretty much anyone. Still I want to HEAR him say it to validate my feelings of self-hate. Why do I feel the need to know if she felt better than me, where they had sex, how they had sex, did she taste better, did she kiss better, what was her body like. WHY??  Why do I need to sabotage myself like that?

He has a high sex drive. He’d happily have sex multiple times a day but at least once a day. I suck at it. I literally suck at one of the most basic human needs/skills. He has never directly said that I suck, he wouldn’t do that. 

If we didn’t have kids I would have left… I don’t want to break up my children’s family. I don’t want to lose half of their lives. I want to see them everyday and be with them. We have 3 kids under 7. We were trying for our last when I found out about this…


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

C4aH said:


> I don’t even know what to call her…  The names that I want to call her I can’t. I hate saying “the woman my husband slept with” . She knew about me. She knew that my husband was married with a family. Neither of them cared… She isn’t married and has no kids. She is an on/off ex-girlfriend of my husband from 15-19 years ago. They got back in contact 7 years ago, and started sleeping together for 6 months and ended it 4 months ago.
> 
> My husband has been unhappy with our sex life from the beginning of our relationship. The so-called human that he was with was his “best” sexual partner, and I guess she still is. He doesn’t want to answer my questions, like was the sex better (even though I know the answer) because he thinks it will do more harm than good. He said he would tell me, but believes it will just hurt me more. It’s like I want the pain. I KNOW the sex was better with her, it’d be better with pretty much anyone. Still I want to HEAR him say it to validate my feelings of self-hate. Why do I feel the need to know if she felt better than me, where they had sex, how they had sex, did she taste better, did she kiss better, what was her body like. WHY??  Why do I need to sabotage myself like that?
> 
> ...


The reason he cheated isnt because of you, its because he has no character or integrity. 
I can't see that its doing your children any good being in this unhappy relationship. With a dad who cant even be bothered to be faithful to their mother. They sense your deep unhappiness anyway, kids always do. I am sure that you could have them for most of the time if the marriage ended.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

C4 we aren't saying it's not your fault only to make you feel good, we are saying it's NOT your fault because it truly isn't so I hope you take that to heart. None of this is your fault. Your husband is the one that sucks. Sex may be a basic component of a marriage and one that is fulfilling but there's a lot more to marriage than that and it probably sucks because of his lack of effort or care to fulfill your needs and desires to want to be what he thinks he wants in that department.

People like 'this' usually like to make it shown to the public how much they care for their kids but deep down I bet he would settle for partial custody of parenting time. You can do better and honesty, do better on your own. I would recommend seeing a lawyer now, even if you have no intention on starting the process so you know your rights. 

You think because he is the betrayer, he will take it easy on you and not file or take advantage of you when it comes to legal stuff but sadly, people like this have no limits for how much harm they can cause and how much entitlement they will have, like he already has. Please know your rights and what you can expect.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@C4aH, you keep saying that he strayed because you suck at sex . He cheated because HE SUCKS. Period. You did not cause him to cheat.

If he was a real partner and didn't think sex between you was up to snuff He should have discussed it with you and worked together so that you both got better at sex ( and yes its BOTH) - you were doing it together, not just you. 
Why do you keep saying you were so bad at sex? 

Sounds like you may have some self esteem issues that you may want to work on in counseling. 

PLEASE try to get it in your head that HE is responsible for the cheating, not you. Please stop blaming yourself on that point.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

I wish you luck on your tough journey ahead. I just have a few things to add:

1) His friends that all knew; You should block them from your life. They aren't invited to your functions/house anymore. 
2) Your husband is at fault
3) Being bad at sex isn't some genetic thing that you cant fix. There's a lot to learn and explore. I wouldn't recommend doing it for your cheating husband BUT if you really are self conscious about sex there are a lot of things you can do to improve it.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

C4aH said:


> If we didn’t have kids I would have left… I don’t want to break up my children’s family. I don’t want to lose half of their lives. I want to see them everyday and be with them. We have 3 kids under 7. We were trying for our last when I found out about this…


Think about the reality if you stay with him. It will be what, 10 or 15 years before all the kids are out of the house? Walk forward through those years and imagine the relationship you'll have with your husband and what sort of home life the kids would grow up in. All of us understand wanting to keep the family together, but the reality is often a toxic environment for the kids because of the resentment the parents have for each other.

I'm just throwing this out there, but it will be easier for your kids to adapt to divorce now rather than later. Once they get to be 10 or so, they'll have more trouble dealing with all the emotions. Just getting through puberty is hard enough on its own without having a divorce thrown in. Certainly it's tough whenever it happens, but when they are younger, they are more resilient and will move on quicker.

Your story is very sad, but it is theoretically fixable. It sounds like there has been an intimacy problem for a long time. It doesn't justify the affair in any way, but lack of intimacy typically leads to something bad happening (depression, affair, divorce, etc.). From what you describe, it sounds more like desire is lacking rather than you are lacking any particular skill. But in any case, trying to rebuild that emotional connection between you two would be very challenging. Theoretically it's possible, but it's hard to think how it could happen in reality. There has been so much resentment built up, it will be hard to get back to what you once had.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

C4aH said:


> He doesn’t want to answer my questions, like was the sex better (even though I know the answer) because he thinks it will do more harm than good. He said he would tell me, but believes it will just hurt me more. *It’s like I want the pain.* I KNOW the sex was better with her, it’d be better with pretty much anyone. Still I want to HEAR him say it to validate my feelings of self-hate. Why do I feel the need to know if she felt better than me, where they had sex, how they had sex, did she taste better, did she kiss better, what was her body like. *WHY??  Why do I need to sabotage myself like that?*


C4,

*"It’s like I want the pain."* 

For the BS, this is common actually. My counselor called it my "fuzzy warm blanket of pain". You are still trying to figure out the "why". @Affaircare here on TAM once commented that fallout of an affair to the BS is like a living jig-saw puzzle. You have many pieces in-front of you, but the key ones are somehow missing. 

Guess who is hiding them? 

What you really desire is the naked unfiltered truth, and you are willing to trade "pain" to understand. Been there myself.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

C4aH said:


> I suck at it. I literally suck at one of the most basic human needs/skills. He has never directly said that I suck, he wouldn’t do that.
> 
> (


I ain't buying that C4. You may actually feel you're lousy in the sack because he banged another chick, but it ain't true unless you just don't want to be "doing it" and just happy to get it over with. What's the other woman got that you don't? My take is both of you have the same plumbing and can probably move the same way. So beyond your philandering old man seeking a little strange poon tang, why do you think youre a lousy lay. Whether you stay or go, you need to get this crap out of your head.


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