# Emotional Affair?



## alana (Sep 7, 2012)

First of all let me apologize, this might get really long. 

I’m not sure where to start. I met my husband online 12 years ago, we have been happily married for over 8 years now. We went through hell to be together. We were young (18 & 21years old), lived in different countries but knew we were soul mates. Immigration was a year and a half of hell. As such a young couple it has brought us exceptionally close. All of our friends tell us we have a perfect marriage, not true, but damn close. With that background being said - 

I think my husband is having an emotional affair. Maybe? I don’t even know what to call it. 2 months ago he met a girl through work (she’s at a different location out of state). They instantly became close friends. My husband has not tried to hide it, we’ve even joked about the fact that maybe I should be getting “worried”. Yet he has been texting and calling her more and more. It has come to a point where they are constantly contacting each other through out the day. We both have very different work schedules so when we have time for just the two of us, we treasure it. The last month he hasn’t been able to put down his phone while we’re out together. I am not the jealous type and normally this wouldn’t bother me. 

3 days ago I accidently look at their text messages. I am so confused. IT says he loves her as much as me. And that it hurts him to be so far away from her. He wants to be with her and when they meet in person he will give her a big hug and kiss and wont go any farther then what she wants to (she’s currently in a bad relationship). 

It has rocked me to my core. My husband says he’ so sorry and that nothing would ever had happened in person. I do believe him. The major problem I have is that he didn’t realize he was doing anything wrong. He says while he was talking with her, it didn’t seem too far. He realizes now that it was. He wants to fix our marriage as do I. BUT he doesn’t want to stop talking to her. That their relationship isn’t wrong – just how far it went was. He cant explain to my how or why but he has this emotional connection to her and he doesn’t want to give it up. He says shes like a sister to him and that from now on they wont discus anything too serious. 

I don’t know how to explain to him how much this has hurt me. I’m not mad at him, he truly didn’t know he was doing anything wrong (_how he didn’t know I will NEVER understand_) but I know he would never hurt me on purpose. I care so much about him, that him seeing me hurt, in-turn hurts him and I feel guilty about it? It scares me soooo much to think of a life without him – and I know he shares the same fear. But I don’t know how to deal with the fact that he doesn’t want to give up talking to her. I hate to be that kind of person, but it bothers me more then I can explain. Its like an irrational thought. I know he will never do this again, because I would have to leave him and it would kill both of us – _says the rational part of my brain_, but the emotion sides keeps on telling me that they shouldn’t be speaking anymore. Maybe I’ve blown this all out of proportion? Do I have the right to ask him not to talk to her anymore? I’m not sure what to think or where to go from here…

Sorry for such a ridiculously long post. Any suggestions, comments or simple thoughts would be appreciated.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

It's an EA. No doubt about it

He needs to go NC with her right now.

Ask him how he would feel if he found the same message on your phone and you were doing the things he's been doing?

If either partner has an issue (especially a very justified one like this) with one of the other's friends, that person should be removed to keep the marriage healthy


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

He's definitely in an emotional affair. The fact he won't readily give her up suggests it's more serious than he's letting on. Don't buy the "she's like a sister" line. Who tells their sister they "want to be with her" and yearn to kiss her *shudders*.

You have to demand total No contact if you want to kill the affair and stop it from progressing into something that could potentially end your relationship. 

He's minimizing the affair and will soon start gaslighting you.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Yep, Emotional Affair (EA).

"The last month he hasn’t been able to put down his phone while we’re out together. I am not the jealous type and normally this wouldn’t bother me." It should bother you. Your time together should be just that - time together - to concentrate on each other and not be interrupted by phone calls or texts from a third person. This is definitely not work related.

"IT says he loves her as much as me. And that it hurts him to be so far away from her. He wants to be with her and when they meet in person he will give her a big hug and kiss and wont go any farther then what she wants to". Yeah - right - he would tell his sister this. That is Bullsh#t.

He has to send a No Contact letter to her immediately. He can never contact her again and if she tries to contact him, he must tell you immediately and DO NOT RESPOND TO HER.

You may have caught it early, but you need to act now. Your marriage is under attack and if you want to save it, you need to start now.

Be prepared for more of the "just friends", "totally innocent". "you are being jealous and controlling" garbage that he will throw at you. Just tell him a marriage is for two people and he has brought in a third person that is affecting the marriage and it is not OK with you.

Good luck.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Oh and if you can, inform the other woman's partner of this ongoing EA. It can help to nip it in the bud.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Please expose this affair to the Other woman's spouse. 

He deserves to know, and she is likely exaggerating his faults. 

The OW also complained her husband ignored her and was not affectionate.

Her own mother later told me that was not true. 

She called me out of the blue to find out if her daughter was having an affair as her son-in-law insisted. 

She was upset and surprised because she told me the OW and her husband were very loving when together at family gatherings and the family really liked her husband and thought he was a loving and generous guy.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

He is lying to you, and maybe to himself. He does know it is wrong. Asking him to image if your roles were reversed is useless, because he is not rational, he is currently like a drug addict, and all he is going to want is his fix. He knows it is wrong, but he doesn't care. You need to stand up for yourself, and your marriage. You need to force him to choose, it's you, or her, no in between, and what ever that entails. If one of them needs to get a new job, tough darts, no contact, they cannot go back. You need to be tough enough to back this up too. If he refuses to give her up, kick him out, and divorce him. Drastic, yes, but you are now in a war, and your marriage hangs in the balance. If you drag it out, you are just going to get hurt more. If he sees reality and comes to his senses, than you can both start working to heal the damage he has done sooner. Sorry, either way, your old life just got blown away.


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## alana (Sep 7, 2012)

Thanks for the quick replys

We've talked about it, he will let me look at the texts and email with her anytime I want. That he's sorry to the point of tears that he hurt me. And i know he is. But how does one get over something like this? 
He says taht if I was to find someone that I could talk to so easily like he has with her, that he wouldnt be the slightest bit upset about it. 
He's understands and expects me to be upset about the physical part that they talked about. He will never do it again, and I trust him in that but he just doesnt get the idea of an EA. He truly thinks that their friendship is no threat to our marriage. I dont know how I explain to him why i think there should be no contact(I’m not sure if I believe it myself). All I know is that the last 2 days all I can think about is if and how much have they been talking. He’s also very honest and has told me that even if he did no contact that years from now he will still “love her like a sister” and wonder where she is and how she is doing. He loves her, but is IN love with me only. I’m truly at a loss here. . . 
btw the OW is not married just dating someone off and on right now.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Your marriage will not survive if there's a 3rd person in it. It's as simple as that Alana. Your husband assumes that infidelity only takes a physical dimension hence why he can't understand your problem with the emotional aspect. If you do not put your foot down and demand an end to this nonsense, they'll eventually consummate the relationship. If you're afraid that you'll push him away by coming across as "too controlling", it's already happened and you had no part in it. However it's up to you if you want to bring him back and get rid of that growth. 

The longer you stay in limbo the more their relationship intensifies.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

To put it in it's simplest terms, he is investing an inordinate amount of time, interest, affection and intimacy in a relationship that is not the primary relationship. That is cheating you of all of the above. It had already gone far enough that he is attempting to make that the primary relationship, above yours. It needs to stop, it needs to stop now. It will progress, it is like a cancer on your relationship. and it will kill it if you don't get rid of it.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

How can we possibly know this you wonder? How can we be so sure? Because it has all been done before, so many times. It's like you are both now actors in a play that runs over and over, all the time. There's a script, neither of you know it, but you will follow it verbatim if left to your own devices, almost guaranteed. What you've done by coming here is off the script, that's awesome. We can help you rewrite it, to minimize the damage to you. We can't eliminate it, but we can help ease the pain. Your husband is in a fog, he is infatuated with a fantasy. That's powerful stuff, but it is possible to beat it, if you meet it head on. The first step is to make him make a hard choice, A or B, not both.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You could tell her to back off, but she is not your problem really, he is. He has to choose you, or it is pointless.


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## alana (Sep 7, 2012)

I've thought about contacting her. Talking to her to try and understand what she thinks is going on between the 2 of them. He’s told me she’s just as upset, that our marriage will now have problems because of the two of them. I wouldn’t even know what to say to her. . . .
I know our relationship isnt perfect. The only area we have problems with is my low libido, and maybe thats why he was talking about the physical aspect of it. 
I’m so confused right now. I understand why you guys say to make sure theres no contact. But isn’t he allowed to have close friends? Neither of us are social people and because of the way we are, when we make friends it's fr life. he's a very emotional guy and because of that he has more female friends then male, and that fact doesnt bother me, its just somehow this one went to far., but if they both acknowledge that issue and he’s careful not to fall into that again, why couldn’t they continue talking?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Friendships are platonic not lustful.You don't yearn to be physically intimate with platonic friends. You certainly don't tell another woman that "you love her" when you have a wife sitting at home. 

By the way, I highly recommend you read this book
Amazon.com: Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity (9780743225502): Shirley P. Glass, Jean Coppock Staeheli: Books


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Something wicked this way comes friend......and it comes fast.

Here is why they can't continue talking= their bond will grow and it's only a matter of time before you get the "I love you but I'm not in love with you speech". If you want to be divorced, then let it continue because that's the path this is going. I've been in your shoes. 

Escalation of these affairs happens intensely and quickly. The very fact that he can't wont stop talking and has to get his "fix" is a testament to how attached they become. Think of him as a meth addict now. There are countless articles that you can find here about the brain chemistry changes while infatuated and how he will struggle to break that habit of interacting with her. 

Talking to the OW won't get you the results you want because she is interchangeable. She could have been anyone. He had a void and filled it with the low hanging fruit. Finding out what the void is can help you determine if he can be rehabilitated. 

You need to read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, get it asap from online. At this point he can't have opposite sex friends because he doesn't have good boundaries. He is the walking wounded right now. This affair is providing something to him and he isn't even giving you a chance to be that for him. 

He is connecting with someone else and directing feelings toward her that should be reserved for you.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Ditto, can he have close friends? sure. Can he have close friends he wants to have sex with? Hell no!
It is too late, he cannot turn back the clock. There's lots of hard work ahead, but he has betrayed your trust, he needs to put you first.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

alana said:


> I've thought about contacting her. Talking to her to try and understand what she thinks is going on between the 2 of them. He’s told me she’s just as upset, that our marriage will now have problems because of the two of them. I wouldn’t even know what to say to her. . . .
> I know our relationship isnt perfect. The only area we have problems with is my low libido, and maybe thats why he was talking about the physical aspect of it.
> I’m so confused right now. I understand why you guys say to make sure theres no contact. But isn’t he allowed to have close friends? Neither of us are social people and because of the way we are, when we make friends it's fr life. he's a very emotional guy and because of that he has more female friends then male, and that fact doesnt bother me, its just somehow this one went to far., but if they both acknowledge that issue and he’s careful not to fall into that again, why couldn’t they continue talking?


 He is in an emotional affair (EA) with this other woman (OW) that he was willing to take to a physical affair (PA) when he saw her in person. Had you not caught him it would still be going on. Thus he has shown that he cannot be trusted with this OW. These facts are not in dispute. They are thus not just friends they are more. They cannot go backwards on their feelings for each other. All they can do is continue to lie to you that they will be just friends when all of you know that it is much more. Read the book "Not Just Friends". It will tell you what is going on between them right now and let you know that there is now 3 in your marraige. 

You must demand full and complete no contact right now. You must be willing to end the marraige if he does not end all contact. I must warn you that he may not pick you. If he picks her over you right now then your marraige was all but over anyways and now you know. Although not a sure thing, demanding no contact right now backed up by a willingness to divorce gives you the best odds of saving your marraige long term. Another thing, do you really want to stay in a marraige where you are no longer his one and only?

I am sorry that you are here. Be strong and good luck.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Alana, he does not "love her like a sister". No one wants to kiss and hug and "go only as far as [she] want" with a SISTER. It is an emotional affair. And, the only way to fix your marriage is if this woman is OUT. I had the "well I guess I can't have any friends" speech with my husband. I looked him in the eye and told him point blank "yes you can, just not THAT one!" He was in an EA with her...was just the beginning of one, but I recognized the signs in his texts. At first, I was on the fence, much like you. But then, I couldn't stand it and I told him that if he wants to work on our marriage, she has to go. And he sent her a NC text.

If your husband wants to fix the marriage, this...woman (and believe me, I am holding back how I really feel here...I have referred to my husband's OW as a THING, many times).... needs to be out of the picture, completely. And if he wonders about her, he wonders. But there is to be no contact with a woman he has expressed this feeling for. NONE. If she is still in the picture, you will ALWAYS wonder. And she will be a bone of contention between you.


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## alana (Sep 7, 2012)

I really appreciate all the advice you guys are giving me. I don’t have a lot of people to talk to about this. My closest friends are in a different country and while I get support from them, it can be difficult to get in contact with them, when its needed. The only person where im actually at, that I am close enough to want to talk to about this is. . . . drum roll. . . .my husbands mother! Ha I could never tell her about this – at least not at this point. I’m sure she’ll side with me, but I don’t want my H to feel like he’s being ganged up on. 

This is all so very surprising and raw to me. The emotional rollercoaster of the last couple of days has exhausted me. And while we’ve talked every night since I read the texts, I’m having a very hard time explaining to my H what it is I’m feeling. He keeps on asking me how he can make it better? I don’t have an answer. I don’t want to have trust issues with him, and im not sure if I really do ( cuz he never hid the relationship from me) but what he has said to this girl should never had happened. Now that it has, im not sure I feel safe anymore.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

It is ok, this is all normal. You are not crazy, you are not unreasonable. Not at all. This is not your fault either, so don't ever believe that for a second. Before giving you more advice I want to say this : do not stop coming to this forum, no matter what. You need honest opinions on your situation, and you can get that here, from people who have lived through it on both sides. We understand what you are both going through, and what you are going to go through. We can help keep you sane to some degree.

He says he wants to make it better? You do have an answer, the question is does he? You are going to have to force the issue and make him choose. And you have to be prepared for his answer either way. If her, then he has to leave. If you, then he had to go NC all the way.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You shouldn't feel safe either, because right now you aren't.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Actually, Alana, his mother IS a good choice to talk to. She may actually be one of the few people who could get through to him. You aren't sure what to tell him? How about how you felt when you read those words? The fact that you can't un-see what he wrote to her? Or maybe the fact that, as long as she is in your marriage, you can't fix things? Or how about that as long as he insists that he be allowed to speak to her, it shows that he puts the OW above you? I think that's a good start. And you tell him that if he truly wants the marriage to work, THIS friend has to go... no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Her or you. If he says both or he says he has to think... then you will have your answer. If he can't put YOU and YOUR feelings above that of a "friend", then he is not really in the marriage.


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## alana (Sep 7, 2012)

I just never thought i'd be that person that says he can't be friends with someone. It sounds ridiculous to me that someone he met once for less then a week in person (through work, always with other people) could get so close to him so fast. he's continued to text and talk with her. I've tried to explain to him that it scares me because it sounds SOOO much like what happened to us at the beginning. We carried on a long distance relationship for 2 years before we decided to get married. He thinks it's different between OW and how we were, but i'm not so sure, and i'm scared to hell that i will lose him. He doesnt think I have anythign to worry about, that im his life, and I know he believes that. . . but yet he'll come to her defense when i say it hurts me that they are talking. . . . fml. i just wish i knew where and why everything went so wrong.


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## Lifeisnotsogood2 (Sep 1, 2012)

Alana, the biggest greatest regret will be not having put a stop to his emotional affair. If you don't stop it, it will eventually turn into a Physical affair and he will most likely leave you for her. 

Unfortunately, to stop this emotional affair, you will need to demand NC. I don't think you have the strength to do this though because you appear to be justifying his actions. "Like a sister?" Really! Nobody wants to have sex with their sister. Well...almost nobody.

Every time he texts her, he is disrespecting you. Don't allow that. If he doesn't stop, you should expose the EA to everyone. His mother, the OW's boyfriend, etc. If that doesn't work, you need to kick him out and file for separation. That will be your best chance to shock him onto reality.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

alana said:


> I've thought about contacting her. Talking to her to try and understand what she thinks is going on between the 2 of them. He’s told me she’s just as upset, that our marriage will now have problems because of the two of them. I wouldn’t even know what to say to her. . . .
> I know our relationship isnt perfect. The only area we have problems with is my low libido, and maybe thats why he was talking about the physical aspect of it.
> I’m so confused right now. I understand why you guys say to make sure theres no contact. But isn’t he allowed to have close friends? Neither of us are social people and because of the way we are, when we make friends it's fr life. he's a very emotional guy and because of that he has more female friends then male, and that fact doesnt bother me, its just somehow this one went to far., but if they both acknowledge that issue and he’s careful not to fall into that again, why couldn’t they continue talking?


You MUST contact her.

Your husband is risking ruining your marriage and the OW's relationship. (Is it as bad as they claim? Or are they making him out to be an ogre?)


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Alana, I met my husband online as well. We had a long distance relationship for 3 months before we met in person. And then, I moved to be with him 5 months later. After about a month living in his town, we moved back to my hometown. Well, he lived there, I lived a couple hundred miles away with my sister. So I get the online/long distance thing.

Now, about the OW...I missed the comment you made about her feeling "just as upset... because of them"...Yea, my husband's OW said the same thing. And you know what? I told my husband she had to go. The only way we could work on our marriage is if she was GONE. I tried suggesting to her myself that she back off...she said she wanted to hear it from HIM and not from me using his phone. The funny thing is, I showed him the entire conversation I had with her, and he sent her the text, severing the "friendship". She was pissed. But you know what? Too damn bad. What is more important? Friendship or marriage? Really, this is what it is coming down to. Your husband has indicated he wanted more than just a friendship with the OW. So now, he needs to choose one or the other. Once that line has been crossed once with someone, it is SOOOOO easy to cross it again. THAT is the reason for no contact. He defends HER when you discuss YOUR feelings. That says a lot. YOU are the one he needs to be worried about, NOT HER!


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I think it would be better if it was a result of his choice, and you contact her, and her bf to deliver the NC message (he writes it, but you deliver it). That said even if he chooses her, you ought to let the bf in on the secret, and his (your husband's) family.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

This is an emotional affair. He's making excuses and trying to find a way to cake eat. Take a hard line in this and do not tolerate it. You or her, that's his choice -- and if he chooses to stay married, he MUST go no contact with her and get marriage counseling with you. Or else, this will fail.

I have been through the year and a half of immigration hell and also found that my husband was in an ea which escalated to worse. I'm guessing that your H is immature and can't find a way to regulate his own happiness and is latching onto her. Also, since your relationship developed while you were apart and long-distance, he's conditioned his intimacy to respond to the LDR means of connecting instead of proximity means and you guys have not overcome that. So, when he needs emotional intimacy he's responding to his instinct, to reach out via correspondence. He has to learn how to connect with you again. It won't happen unless he is willing to commit to you. It won't be easy. And you can't force him. All you can do is give him the choice between you and her and refuse to tolerate his wishy-washy commitment which is guided by cake eating rather than mature love. 

Continue to allow his behavior and his resentment from being torn between his intimacy-seeking tendencies and you with your presence reflecting his failures in fidelity just by existing he will start blaming you for his unhappiness and take his anger out on you. If he's immature enough that he can't regulate his moods, that increasing volatility will come your way because he will see you as the obstacle to his joy. If he has anger problems, expect verbal abuse. Since he's already demonstrating a penchant for deceit (keeping the truth of his relationship with her hidden in plain sight) and manipulation (loves her like a sister, yeah right!), expect gas-lighting.

Ultimatum. Stick to your guns. Be strong.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

alana said:


> I just never thought i'd be that person that says he can't be friends with someone. It sounds ridiculous to me that someone he met once for less then a week in person (through work, always with other people) could get so close to him so fast. he's continued to text and talk with her. I've tried to explain to him that it scares me because it sounds SOOO much like what happened to us at the beginning. We carried on a long distance relationship for 2 years before we decided to get married. He thinks it's different between OW and how we were, but i'm not so sure, and i'm scared to hell that i will lose him. He doesnt think I have anythign to worry about, that im his life, and I know he believes that. . . but yet he'll come to her defense when i say it hurts me that they are talking. . . . fml. i just wish i knew where and why everything went so wrong.


Do not back down. Do not accept his twisted logic. Him defending her and defending his relationship with her even after you told him that you are hurt by it just proves that it is much more than a friendship, even if he will not admit it.

I suggest you get a book entitled *Not Just Friends* by Dr. Shirley Glass. You read it then have him read it too or better yet, read it together.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Alana, please listen to the advice that you're getting from the TAM veterans. You have to go nuclear on your husband in order to shock him back to reality. He is bonding with her at your expense. This is a zero sum game and you are losing big time.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

And, you should keep an eye on him to see if they're still talking and what is being said. Definitely expose to his mother! Do it discreetly and with evidence so she has a chance to process the info without immediately jumping into motherly protection mode. Maybe her awareness can help him stay accountable, just by knowing the truth. Make sure you have a place yo go if things go south between you and your WH.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

alana said:


> He says shes like a sister to him and that from now on they wont discus anything too serious.


I guess he's down with incest thing, because a traditional brother/sister relationship...this _ain't_.

It's not maybe an EA. It is an EA and I concur with what everyone else has said.

You want to save this marriage? Leave your feelings at the door. You're a soldier (well no not literally, I know some people don't like using that term willy-nilly) and you have an objective.

What's the objective? Now say it with me: save my marriage.

Say it again: save my marriage.

Contact the OW. Have a talk with his mother. And be prepared to tell your husband that he isn't to have a relationship anymore, because you once trusted him completely, but you can't anymore. Not once he said he wanted to get physical.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

@ the OP - 2 points that you will learn if you read threads on the Infidelity section of this forum.

1) Never has the OM or OW ever ended the relationship just because the betrayed spouse asked them to. They only end it because of fear of exposure or due to exposure and only if the are not willing to leave their own spouse.

2) If you do not demand and get full no contact, things never gets better and the marraige will end.

Based on history what you are doing will fail. You must fight for your marraige while you still have a chance to win.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

OP,

Just relax, and listen to the posters here, everything will be fine then.


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## alana (Sep 7, 2012)

Thanks guys,
We went out last night. I’m trying to get "over" this, but I can't and he knows it. We left early cuz he could tell I wasn’t having any fun. (Some how that’s my fault?) Last night was hard. I don’t wanna give him an ultimatum. I want him to choose me, for himself. obviously that’s not going to happen. I think he's diluting himself. He doesn’t realize how far he is in with the relationship with the OW, or why it bothers me. Again its the “we’re just friends” and that I didn’t understand what I read. He actually told me that when he says he wants her, he means to sit at cuddle with her not sex. It’s unbelievable. I don’t think he’s out right lying to me, I think he’s convinced himself that its true and ok. Basically the conversation ended with that he’s sorry, but that I have to get comfortable with the idea of them talking. . . I just couldn’t say it (the ultimatum). I’m scared what his answer will be.

I’m heading out to the store later today to get that book everyones suggesting (Not “Just Friends”). In the mean time I will be monitoring their texts and emails. He doesn’t have any issue with that, thank god! I want to believe him when he says I understood the messages wrong and that there isn’t a physical desire but I don’t know. What he wrote was pretty straight forward. I do believe that it will never happen in person – he’s been hurt by that in the past. And if he never voices he’s thoughts about her again, that be great but im not sure if its enough. I will always wonder if they continue to talk or end up meeting in person.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

alana said:


> Thanks guys,
> We went out last night. I’m trying to get "over" this, but I can't and he knows it. We left early cuz he could tell I wasn’t having any fun. (Some how that’s my fault?) Last night was hard. I don’t wanna give him an ultimatum. I want him to choose me, for himself. obviously that’s not going to happen. I think he's diluting himself. He doesn’t realize how far he is in with the relationship with the OW, or why it bothers me. Again its the “we’re just friends” and that I didn’t understand what I read. He actually told me that when he says he wants her, he means to sit at cuddle with her not sex. It’s unbelievable. I don’t think he’s out right lying to me, I think he’s convinced himself that its true and ok. Basically the conversation ended with that he’s sorry, but that I have to get comfortable with the idea of them talking. . . I just couldn’t say it (the ultimatum). I’m scared what his answer will be.
> 
> I’m heading out to the store later today to get that book everyones suggesting (Not “Just Friends”). In the mean time I will be monitoring their texts and emails. He doesn’t have any issue with that, thank god! I want to believe him when he says I understood the messages wrong and that there isn’t a physical desire but I don’t know. What he wrote was pretty straight forward. I do believe that it will never happen in person – he’s been hurt by that in the past. And if he never voices he’s thoughts about her again, that be great but im not sure if its enough. I will always wonder if they continue to talk or end up meeting in person.


Sitting and cuddling with her? And he thinks THAT is ok? And he says "Sorry, honey, but I'm gonna talk to her anyway, and you just have to deal"? Alana, I hate to say it, but he is making it clear that your feelings don't matter to him. It's all about HIM and what HE wants. You would think that having been hurt by cheating in the past would make him less likely to cheat on you...then again, my husband didn't think there was anything wrong with his EA either.... UNTIL I told him "her or me"... He knew I was serious... and he made his choice. At some point, Alana, you are going to have to make him choose you or her. Right now, he is choosing her. He sees nothing wrong with it because he "only wants to cuddle" (yea right!)... He shouldn't want to cuddle with anyone but you! Are you going to just let him cake eat?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

alana, read up on codependency too.

sorry you're going through this.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

alana said:


> First of all let me apologize, this might get really long.
> 
> I’m not sure where to start. I met my husband online 12 years ago, we have been happily married for over 8 years now. We went through hell to be together. We were young (18 & 21years old), lived in different countries but knew we were soul mates. Immigration was a year and a half of hell. As such a young couple it has brought us exceptionally close. All of our friends tell us we have a perfect marriage, not true, but damn close. With that background being said -
> 
> ...


Alana, you are deluding yourself. You are so invested emotionally in your near "perfect" marriage that is the envy of all of your friends that you can't see the truth when it smacks you in the face.

Your husband is a cheater. He told the other woman he couldn't wait to hug her and kiss her and only go as far as she wanted him to go. That is not how a brother loves a sister. That is a sexual message. Have you ever heard of a brother and sister who talked like that to each other? There is only one way to interpret that. If she comes to see him and wants to have sex with him, he will do it.

Do you really think that little of your husband's intelligence to think that he honestly didn't know what he was doing was wrong and hurtful to you? I can't get over the "love her like a sister" line that he gave you. Is he one of those people that can't tell right from wrong? What would you say if someone told you the story you just told here?

He is a cake eater. He wants to see how this thing with other woman plays out. He does not want to give you up for some long-distance relationship, but he does want to leave it open to see what could come of it. He will get a chance to see her again someday and when he does, he wants to be in a position to have sex with her.

Everyone thinks their loving faithful spouse would not cheat on them. Someone started a thread here about that very subject a few days ago. Take a look at it.

Make him dump the other woman. Handwrite a no contact letter. Give you access to all his communication devices and accounts and passwords. Would he choose his affair with the other woman over you? 

Tell him you would like to get the opinion of all of your families and friends about his communications with the other woman and see what they think about it. An objective opinion from those people that know both of you, know how intelligent you both are. See what your husband says about that. He's not going to like it. But if his relationship with her is innocent, why should he care if other people know about it? If you do it, your familes and friends are going to think the same thing that I think.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Alana, reading 'Not Just Friends' is not going to help you save your marriage. Quite frankly, it's a long read and by the time you get through with it, you will have already lost your husband. You're afraid of giving him the ultimatum because you already know what the answer will be - he'll choose her. So by doing nothing, you're HOPING that everything turns out fine. Well hope is NOT a plan. You have to go global thermo-nuclear on his cake-eating ass.

Instead of reading 'Not Just Friends' (which by the way is a great book), spend some time reading the various threads on this forum. You'll learn a lot more about how to fix your situation faster.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You're not listening to the people here. The advice is unanimous. You need to stop questioning it and yourself and go do what you have to do. Demand no contact. Risk making him mad. You really have no choice. It's really your only chance for your marriage.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Yes, you are scared of the answer. We understand that, it is normal, it is ok. You need the answer though, to know what to do. The longer you let it slide, the more likely you will lose your marriage. The more hurt and suffering you will go through.

Your husband is an addict right now. No one can actually fix that but him, but he needs an intervention to see if he is truly willing or not. If he is, great, we can help. If he isn't, you need to know. You need to protect yourself. Damage has already been done. Act now to contain it, or it will multiply exponentially.

You have to know this is true. You have to know deep down this can't go anywhere good if you fail to act. That's why you came here and posted in the first place. You know what you have to do. You can do it. You have to do it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alana said:


> Thanks guys, We went out last night. I’m trying to get "over" this, but I can'tand he knows it. We left early cuz he could tell I wasn’t having any fun. (Some how that’s my fault?) Last night was hard.


You husband’s behavior is very typical of a person in an affair. He will rewrite your history together and current events to put all the blame on you. To save your marriage, you are going to have to become more confident. Why should you feel guilty for feeling pain about his being unfaithful? You are not responsible for his choice to cheat.


alana said:


> I don’t wanna givehim an ultimatum. I wanthim to chooseme, forhimself. obviously that’s not going to happen. I think he's dilutinghimself. He doesn’t realize how far he is in with the relationship with the OW, or why it bothersme.


You don’t want to give him an untimatum? So instead you will live in a situation where you are torn apart? Does this really make any sense to you? It does not to me.

The thing is that you would not be giving him an ultimatum. Instead you need to tell him what you are willing to live with. “Hon, I’m not willing to stay in a marriage where my husband is emotionally or in any other way investing more time and emotions in another woman than he is in me and our marriage. So if you do not end all contact with Ms. XYZ by Friday I’m filing for divorce.

To end contact he has to write a no-contact letter to her. There are copies of the no contact letter around here. It basically tells her that his affair (or emotional involvement) with her is not fair to you. And that he wants to put all his time and energy into you and your marriage. So he wants to further contact with her in any way. He writes the letter and you are there when it’s emailed to her. 

The sooner you tell him that you will not accept this behavior, more likely that he will choose you. The longer you wait, the stronger his attachment to her will be. If you do not confront him NOW your marriage is over already.

One thing you can do to help end the affair is to expose it to his family. Let them know that he is cheating. As their help in getting him to stop this nonsense.

Talking to her might be a good idea. Ask her to end contact with him as she is destroying your marriage. While she may not be responsive, make excuses, etc. it does put her on notice and lets her know very clearly that she’s a third wheel.


alana said:


> Again its the “we’re just friends”and that I didn’t understand what I read. He actually toldme that when he says he wants her, hemeans to sit at cuddle with her not sex. It’s unbelievable. I don’t think he’s out right lying tome, I think he’s convincedhimself that its trueand ok. Basically the conversation ended with that he’s sorry, but that I have to get comfortable with the idea of them talking. . . I just couldn’t say it (the ultimatum).


A brother do not look forward to sitting and cuddling their sister. I have 3 brothers. Sure I’ll hug them and give them a kiss on the cheek. But sitting around cuddling them? No way. 

Does your husband have a habit of making up stories, lying and basically being a con-man? That’s what all this nonsense he’s saying sounds like. He’s doing what is called “cake eating”. He wants both of you. So he’s making sure that he gets the ‘whole cake’.. you and her. And he’ll say everything and anything he thinks will make that happen. Stop trying to figure out if he’s lying or is really that stupid. He’s conning you. Have the confidence and enough self-love to know that. And call him on his BS.

The thing is that he cannot have both of you. Do you think for a minute Ms. XYZ would put up with him having you on the side if she was married to him? Hardly. She’s obviously more self-confident than you because she’s ok with taking him away from you… that’s her goal. And you are letting her do it.

There is a book that you areally need to read. It’s a quick read…. “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Harley. It explains the dynamics of affairs and how to get your spouse to end the affair. Once you understand how the human mind is manipulated during an affair you will understand why affairs happened, how to end them and how to affair proof your marriage



alana said:


> I’m scared what his answer will be. I’m heading out to the store later today to get that book everyones suggesting (Not “Just Friends”). In themean time I will be monitoring their textsand emails. He doesn’t have any issue with that, thank god! I want to believehim when he says I understood themessages wrongand that there isn’t a physical desire but I don’t know.


You can be sure that your husband has found another way to communicate more intimate things with her. Most affairs, once found out, go more underground. So he’ll keep up the email/chat that you know about. But there is most likely another way that he communicates with her as well… like at work perhaps.


alana said:


> What he wrote was pretty straight forward. I do believe that it will never happen in person – he’s been hurt by that in the past.And if he never voices he’s thoughts about her again, that be great but im not sure if its enough. I will always wonder if they continue to talk or end upmeeting in person.


Why are you allowing this to go on and putting yourself through this?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

alana said:


> I do believe that it will never happen in person – he’s been hurt by that in the past.


Alana, this struck me after seeing EleGirl's post. You may think you know how he will behave if the opportunity presents itself...but his texts say otherwise. I truly thought I COULD do it, if the opportunity presented itself. Yes, I am ashamed to admit that. But I wasn't able to go through with it. My point is you don't REALLY know how you will act in any given situation unless/until you are IN the situation.


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## alana (Sep 7, 2012)

Have have another question for you guys.

I know my H is feeling very guilty that he hurt me. He's continuously telling me sorry that it happened. How do I deal with his hurt feelings? or better yet how can i explain to him that I CANT deal with his issues right now. I'm sure he's going and talking to the OW about it and that makes it even worse. He claims he has no one else to talk to about it. it's kinda true but too bad right?
I think im going to suggest us both getting individual therapy sessions. Not really in the budge but i think it has to be done. Not sure what his reaction will be. He is not an angry person nor is he a deceiving or con-man kind of person. 
Everything you guys are saying makes sense, it's just when I talk to him he somehow explains it, to his benefit. He's not doing it on purpose. but its happening. I dont know how to deal with all of this.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

alana said:


> Have have another question for you guys.
> 
> I know my H is feeling very guilty that he hurt me. He's continuously telling me sorry that it happened. How do I deal with his hurt feelings? or better yet how can i explain to him that I CANT deal with his issues right now. I'm sure he's going and talking to the OW about it and that makes it even worse. He claims he has no one else to talk to about it. it's kinda true but too bad right?
> I think im going to suggest us both getting individual therapy sessions. Not really in the budge but i think it has to be done. Not sure what his reaction will be. He is not an angry person nor is he a deceiving or con-man kind of person.
> Everything you guys are saying makes sense, it's just when I talk to him he somehow explains it, to his benefit. He's not doing it on purpose. but its happening. I dont know how to deal with all of this.


He is feeling hurt because you don't want him to talk to his OW. He isn't feeling guilty. He is rationalizing everything away because *YOU ARE LETTING HIM*!!! If he TRULY felt guilty...if he REALLY wanted the marriage to work, he would do what it takes to solidify YOUR relationship with him, not turning to this other woman. Honestly, he knows what he's doing. And the only way to stop it is to tell him "her or me". You know this. And, I am afraid you know what he is going to say and THAT is why you are telling us that you can't/don't want to.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

He needs to hit rock bottom, the hard choice. You need to be that rock. You need to be strong. You need to force the choice, and follow through with consequences. If he thinks he can have it both ways, which you are totally allowing at the moment, he will try for it. He will destroy the marriage if you let him. He is not thinking straight. He knows it is wrong and he does not care. You are not forcing him to face the full consequences of his choice, so he won't. If he is feeling guilty then it should be simple to make the right choice. The fact that he will not tells you he is manipulating you. You see, the longer it continues, the worse it gets, even if they are miles apart. Get angry! Defend yourself!


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

alana said:


> Have have another question for you guys.
> 
> I know my H is feeling very guilty that he hurt me.
> 
> ...


Of course he's doing it on purpose. He picks up the phone, he dials it, he decides what he wants to say, words come out of his mouth, and his words are in such an order that you understand what he is saying. This is called "on purpose." What is your reasoning when you say he is not doing it "on purpose"?

He wants her and he wants you and he doesn't want to give up either one of you. He is going to say or do whatever he has to in order to have his way. If the "I'm so sorry, I feel guilty" stops working, maybe he will turn to "I can't believe you, I'm so angry at you." When one strategy doesn't work, he will switch to another. He is trying to manipulate you into accepting what you know is wrong, which is all for his benefit and your detriment.

Meanwhile, you are looking for any way out of this other than confronting him and forcing him to end it. There is no magic bullet to end this.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Look, this just sucks all around, no doubt. You must know we are right though. We have been through similar situations ourselves. You can do this, you are strong enough to do this. You are not alone in this either. We want to help you help yourself. We are not trying to trick you, or deceive you, we are trying to help you avoid mistakes that many others have made. To give you the easiest path through some incredibly difficult terrain. You need to get real and face facts, the sooner the better.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You're being way too gullible and accommodating. You have to explain that the EA with the OW hurts you and threatens your marriage & he shouldn't be talking about it with anyone but you. Full stop. No contact.

No contact. Lather, rinse, repeat.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

daggeredheart said:


> I had a similar situation except I didn't know about the online EA until I actually busted him. He counted on me being oblivious to his EA because it wasn't unusual for him to be on his computer a lot.
> 
> Once I busted him, I asked him what he felt about her. He said he was "confussed" because he was attached to her. I told him he needed to back a bag and get out. He did, and along with his laptop went to a hotel and proceeded to chat with her all night long about being caught. He even told me much later that he wished he could have grabbed his camera so he could go to the nature park and take pictures ( their common interest) Imagine being able to stroll happily through the park, taking pictures of nature, to email to your avatar girlfriend who lives half way across the world, meanwhile your whole world is crumbling at your feet. *This* the power of the infatuation.
> 
> ...


Read that, then read it again. YOU NEED TO PUT IN HARSH CONSEQUENCES, AND THEN FOLLOW THROUGH! It took that idiot 4 days to come around, but he did. It would not have happened if he was accommodated out of fear or whatever. I was lucky, I didn't even have to give an ultimatum, all I had to say was it has to end, now. No or else, nothing beyond an implied threat I guess. She probably figured I meant business, and that there would be no mercy, no regrets on my part. You on the other hand, will need to spell it out explicitly. Do not bargain, do not negotiate. If I were you I would not allow him to talk until you are done (I didn't), do not let him touch you ( I wouldn't), just say your whole piece and make him choose. If he chooses you, make him reaffirm his choice, and provide the reasoning. Do not let your guard down. The choice is only the beginning.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Alana, as counter-intuitive as it sounds, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO LOSE YOUR MARRIAGE IN ORDER TO SAVE IT.

Right now, you are being needy and definitely not attractive to your husband. Don't believe his words -- judge the bastard by his actions.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

He's lying and continuing to make a fool out of you. Ask his family what they think of his actions. Ask yours. If he "loves her like a sister", then the rest of the actual family can weigh in on this. Many of us have been where you are, but the weaker you are now, the more certain you can be that things will end badly for you. Be strong, for a change. Stop tolerating his lies. I'll tell you first- hand that you'll be in this pain a year from now and then some because the more he is insecure about how he's convinced you to be ok with this, the more contempt he will feel for you. Give him the ultimatum. And if you're going to try to fix you marriage, you have to get into marriage counseling and only after he has chosen you over her honestly and gone no contact. You must be strong enough to say "me or her, make your choice". No one wants to be with a weak link and by not being strong enough to stand up for your marriage in this way, you're letting him think you're a weak link. Be strong.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

alana said:


> I think im going to suggest us both getting individual therapy sessions. Not really in the budge but i think it has to be done.


 Therapy will not fix this, you are just coping out.



alana said:


> He is not an angry person nor is he a deceiving or con-man kind of person.


 He has you conned just fine. 



alana said:


> Everything you guys are saying makes sense, it's just when I talk to him he somehow explains it, to his benefit. He's not doing it on purpose. but its happening. I dont know how to deal with all of this.


 How you deal with it is to do what everyone has been suggesting that you do. You know we are right and that it "makes sense", so do it right now. Time is not on your side.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Alana, not holding him accountable for his actions doesn't help your marriage or him. You're enabling him to be the kind of person who has no integrity. You're his spouse; if you don't demand that he behave as your equal in the relationship, you're going to turn into either his mommy or his pet. You want to save this at any cost and you're willing to rug-sweep, but if you do, you will lose either your marriage or your well-being and probably both. You should read up on codependency. Been where you are and it sucks, but you have to be strong.


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