# "We can fool around tonight"



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

My W makes this statement about once a month, right before she starts her period. It is a statement that I have grown to dislike. It is as close to initiating as she will ever come.

But what it really means is she is giving me permission to get her off, which is funny because I can do that anytime I want. I have told her I would like her to be more forthcoming, but in the past year the libido has really fallen off. We are 47. 

I guess now I am in the vanilla sex club when it comes to desire. She remembers to sleep. She remembers to eat. She remembers to go to the bathroom, get dressed, brush her teeth, shower, and wash her face. But she doesn't remember to initiate intimacy with her H of 22 years. It must be a choice.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Instead of the precursory "we can fool around tonight" rolling off of her lips, simply just tell her that "actions speak much louder than words!"*


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> She remembers to sleep. She remembers to eat. She remembers to go to the bathroom, get dressed, brush her teeth, shower, and wash her face. But she doesn't remember to initiate intimacy with her H of 22 years. It must be a choice.


It's absolutely a choice. It's highly doubtful that a 47-year-old woman has dementia. And, if she did, she would forget where she lives, and what your name is....

It may really be of benefit to you and your wife to read up on "responsive desire".....there is a chance that even though it's a choice, she may not recognize some natural traits of men and women in this area.

http://www.uncoveringintimacy.com/responsive-vs-spontaneous-desire/


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

I'm confused. Do you want her to initiate more often or in a different way?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

This is the serial cheater who had multiple affairs and brought her boyfriend(s) into your home and into your bedroom, your bathroom, and had sex with them in your bed? 



> I guess now I am in the vanilla sex club when it comes to desire. She remembers to sleep. She remembers to eat. She remembers to go to the bathroom, get dressed, brush her teeth, shower, and wash her face. But she doesn't remember to initiate intimacy with her H of 22 years. It must be a choice.


Every single thing she's ever DONE is a selfish choice designed to benefit* her *and no one else. But there must be some sort of payoff in staying with someone like her because you're still there, getting the short end of the stick.

Is she an heiress to the MM/MARS fortune?


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Are you writing to voice frustration at your situation or to ask for advice? I can't tell from your post.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Yes, are you saying you want several more times a month, or more?

At 47yrs there may be a small drop, but for us that was near empty nesting and things picked up.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I'd like her to initiate something once in a while. Is this uncommon at her age? We are intimate at least once a week, but it is all due to my desire and planning.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

What is common/uncommon at her age is irrelevant. What you really want to know is how to get her to initiate with you, not what happens in other people's bedrooms, since that won't influence her at all.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

TJW said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > She remembers to sleep. She remembers to eat. She remembers to go to the bathroom, get dressed, brush her teeth, shower, and wash her face. But she doesn't remember to initiate intimacy with her H of 22 years. It must be a choice.
> ...


Responsive desire sounds like a date-rapist's perfect storm. "I just need to get started with her, then she will come around to liking it."

I guess if you are married it's ok, but not for first dates.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> Responsive desire sounds like a date-rapist's perfect storm. "I just need to get started with her, then she will come around to liking it."
> 
> I guess if you are married it's ok, but not for first dates.


So are you referring to a woman you are married to or a first date?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > Responsive desire sounds like a date-rapist's perfect storm. "I just need to get started with her, then she will come around to liking it."
> ...


Does it make a difference? Do you get a different response from a woman you are married to vs a first date? Should you get a different response (assuming age is the same)?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

My point is my W's version of initiating is telling me I need to intiate. Which is a roundabout way of saying she doesn't initiate.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> Does it make a difference? Do you get a different response from a woman you are married to vs a first date? Should you get a different response (assuming age is the same)?


I'm pretty sure there WILL be a difference between a woman you are married to and a first date. I mean, common sense would dictate you aren't going to be thinking "responsive desire" on a first date.

But maybe common sense isn't so common...


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> My W makes this statement about once a month, right before she starts her period. It is a statement that I have grown to dislike. It is as close to initiating as she will ever come.
> 
> But what it really means is she is giving me permission to get her off, which is funny because I can do that anytime I want. I have told her I would like her to be more forthcoming, but in the past year the libido has really fallen off. We are 47.
> 
> I guess now I am in the vanilla sex club when it comes to desire. She remembers to sleep. She remembers to eat. She remembers to go to the bathroom, get dressed, brush her teeth, shower, and wash her face. But she doesn't remember to initiate intimacy with her H of 22 years. It must be a choice.


Perhaps she thinks this is initiating. Tell her what you need/want from her specifically in a loving way, of course. 
"I love it when you ______. You are/it is so hot when __________."


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> My point is my W's version of initiating is telling me I need to intiate. Which is a roundabout way of saying she doesn't initiate.


Buddy I say this with the greatest of respect.
Most people on tam can’t believe you stayed with your wife after the hell she put you through.
If I remember correctly when you caught her with condoms in her purse while she was packing for a weekend away, which was really her visiting one of her many affair partners, she explained the condoms were for her vibrator!
In my humble opinion that is the greatest piece of gaslighting I have ever heard.And you believed it!
Why in the name of god would you think she gives a tinkers curse about you or your feelings.
As for iniating,she thinks she is doing you a great favor by allowing you to get her off.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*&quot;We can fool around tonight&quot;*



MAJDEATH said:


> My W makes this statement about once a month, right before she starts her period. It is a statement that I have grown to dislike. It is as close to initiating as she will ever come.
> 
> But what it really means is she is giving me permission to get her off, which is funny because I can do that anytime I want. I have told her I would like her to be more forthcoming, but in the past year the libido has really fallen off. We are 47.
> 
> I guess now I am in the vanilla sex club when it comes to desire. She remembers to sleep. She remembers to eat. She remembers to go to the bathroom, get dressed, brush her teeth, shower, and wash her face. But she doesn't remember to initiate intimacy with her H of 22 years. It must be a choice.




Why don’t you? Women are not big on initiating.
My wife often ‘initiates’ by turning on her side, with her back to me. This is supposed to signal to me: take me as you wish.
Sometimes I get it wrong though and it actually means: touch me once and i will cut off your Dshonson. There’s a bit of trial and error going on but surely that’s par for the curse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> My point is my W's version of initiating is telling me I need to intiate. Which is a roundabout way of saying she doesn't initiate.


A common issue in men with higher desire than their wives is that they want sex to have meaning, much more meaning than their wives want it to have. Most men want to feel sexually desired by their wives. To feel wanted and sexually desired are important to a lot of men. I suspect that is what you really want, more than just getting off.

If so, then the problem is probably more about you than your wife. A book that has really impressed me is David Schnarches Intimacy and Desire. This is the third book of his I have read. The quick version is that most of us need to emotionally grow before we are open to real intimacy and sex. We tend to be too needy which is a turn-off and being needy puts pressure on our spouse that pushes them away from us emotionally.

Good luck.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> My point is my W's version of initiating is telling me I need to intiate. Which is a roundabout way of saying she doesn't initiate.


Next time, why don't you say, "I'm going to need a little more interest shown from you than that." Instead of grasping at the bread crumbs she's throwing you.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > My point is my W's version of initiating is telling me I need to intiate. Which is a roundabout way of saying she doesn't initiate.
> ...


Not relevant to this thread, except for demonstrating that people are real, not perfect. Perfect people wouldn't be on TAM, because they would have zero issues.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Ms. GP said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > My point is my W's version of initiating is telling me I need to intiate. Which is a roundabout way of saying she doesn't initiate.
> ...


Good idea, I may try that. She is also very stressed recently: prepping to take the LSAT.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Personally I'm going to toss the responsive desire tripe. When faced with 2 choices (initiate, or get none) she manages to enthusiastically initiate just fine, not very often, but very good when it happens. I must say that having my libido chemically chopped off has been the most empowering event of my life.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Not relevant to this thread, except for demonstrating that people are real, not perfect. Perfect people wouldn't be on TAM, because they would have zero issues.


Plenty of Perfects in TAM... Until details pour in.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> A common issue in men with higher desire than their wives is that they want sex to have meaning, much more meaning than their wives want it to have. Most men want to feel sexually desired by their wives. To feel wanted and sexually desired are important to a lot of men. I suspect that is what you really want, more than just getting off.


The problem is that (typically), sex has meaning to men but not to women.

Why?

Because women (and about 5-10% of men) can get sex whenever they want. Why would something so easily obtained have meaning?

For most men, sex is something that they were/are always struggling to obtain. So, of course it has meaning.

Does buying a brand new Jaguar have more meaning for someone who's just starting to make some serious money? Or for a billionaire?

We find a woman who's willing to have sex with us (and almost all are eager in the NRE phase) and figure it's because sex with us means something to them. It doesn't. Commitment has meaning for them. 

Of course, many women are HD and initiate sex, but that's because they're aroused. Not because sex has meaning. 

Most women will want an emotional connection with a man they have sex with, but that doesn't mean that the sex itself has *meaning* to them. 

Now, you might imagine that, if your wife knows how much sex means to you, she'd initiate from time to time. But this goes against their nature and usually only happens with selfless women who are finely turned to their husband's happiness.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Young at Heart said:
> 
> 
> > A common issue in men with higher desire than their wives is that they want sex to have meaning, much more meaning than their wives want it to have. Most men want to feel sexually desired by their wives. To feel wanted and sexually desired are important to a lot of men. I suspect that is what you really want, more than just getting off.
> ...


Sex always has meaning for me. It is always intimate and meaningful or I don’t have it. Even a quickie has intense intimacy and meaning for me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

*Re: &quot;We can fool around tonight&quot;*



inmyprime said:


> My wife often ‘initiates’ by turning on her side, with her back to me. This is supposed to signal to me: take me as you wish.



My wife used to do that... golly, how many times I got it wrong! Nearly got shot once.

Anyway, OP... my wife has initiated once in our almost 30 years of marriage... is that a record? :laugh:


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

*Re: &quot;We can fool around tonight&quot;*



In Absentia said:


> My wife used to do that... golly, how many times I got it wrong! Nearly got shot once.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, OP... my wife has initiated once in our almost 30 years of marriage... is that a record? :laugh:




Ditto. Before youngest daughter ended co-sleeping again this is what I got the “butt bump” or footsie at night every two weeks to so.

If she’s like my wife, it’s either one of three things: 1) “I’m horny but don’t make me ask for sex or come on to you it’s embarrassing/humiliating”. 2) “I’m horny but the last thing I wanna do is make a production out of this just get me off so I can go to sleep. 3) “*goes thru mental to-do list* kids doctors appointment check, get toilet paper at Target check, sex with husband... come back to this one, did the dog go pottie?, did I shave my legs? Ok now I want sex *bump bump*

Women really do have to clear their minds first.

We went at it last year over this initiation-thing. She resented having to do it all the time. My reply was you only have so much bandwidth between work, kids, and health issues.l and make it known you’re tapped out despite my help. And she created this construct not me. Unless she was ready for sex, it was an imposition and she showed it with her body language (she denied this of course). I said she doesn’t talk about sex, she doesn’t flirt and isn’t affectionate. She keeps her sexuality in a box until her hormones surge. We don’t talk about said box it’s just there. When it’s over we quickly close the box and go about our day. I told her sex with a woman who isn’t into or doesn’t actively show desire is a huge turn off. Which proves she doesn’t appreciate what sex means to me despite multiple explanations.

I think my wife is very attractive and enjoys it when we gets it but I find it hard to initiate sex with someone who treats you like a Dad and personal assistant for all but 15 minutes every two weeks. There’s no talking about looking forward to it, scheduling it, teasing etc. It happens when she frees up bandwidth and and lets me 1 min before sex is imminent. 

BL - her emotional issues aside it’s like another poster mentioned. It’s like going to the gym... you’re glad you went but you either don’t think about much otherwise and I would add or working out everyday is something you look forward daily.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

*Re: &quot;We can fool around tonight&quot;*



aaarghdub said:


> Ditto. Before youngest daughter ended co-sleeping again this is what I got the “butt bump” or footsie at night every two weeks to so.
> 
> If she’s like my wife, it’s either one of three things: 1) “I’m horny but don’t make me ask for sex or come on to you it’s embarrassing/humiliating”. 2) “I’m horny but the last thing I wanna do is make a production out of this just get me off so I can go to sleep. 3) “*goes thru mental to-do list* kids doctors appointment check, get toilet paper at Target check, sex with husband... come back to this one, did the dog go pottie?, did I shave my legs? Ok now I want sex *bump bump*
> 
> ...



I'm glad my wife is not a unique specimen... or maybe not glad... :laugh:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> In Absentia said:
> 
> 
> > My wife used to do that... golly, how many times I got it wrong! Nearly got shot once.
> ...


This is so sad to read. Yes it is soul sucking to have sex with someone who is just “there” and not really aroused and passionate for you.

Did the talk last year make any difference since then?


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

I always hear women's libido sky rockets in the 40's, but I'm sure it petters of as menopause nears. I think this could likely be VERY normal. But im 31... What would I know about it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Buddy400 said:


> The problem is that (typically), sex has meaning to men but not to women.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


Ya might wanna lay off Reddit for awhile; this is pure BS.

Sex has great meaning for many women. Just because they probably COULD have sex when they want it with whoever (which is debatable and mostly tales spun by PUA incels), doesn't mean they don't care. In fact, the fact that women DON'T typically just pick any penis means it DOES have meaning.

I get that the jaded brigade loves this stuff, but it's ridiculous tripe. Don't let that big red pill choke your brain.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Ya might wanna lay off Reddit for awhile; this is pure BS.
> 
> Sex has great meaning for many women. Just because they probably COULD have sex when they want it *with whoever* (which is debatable and mostly tales spun by PUA incels), doesn't mean they don't care. In fact, the fact that women DON'T typically just pick any penis means it DOES have meaning.
> 
> I get that the jaded brigade loves this stuff, but it's ridiculous tripe. Don't let that big red pill choke your brain.


I don't mean that having sex with a guy doesn't have meaning for most woman. I just mean that the act of sex itself usually means less to them than it does to men.

If a man wants to have sex with a woman, that rarely means anything to her, after all, lots of men probably want to have sex with her.

If a woman wants to have sex with a man, that means something because there don't appear to be many women who want to have sex with him.

If a man wants to have an emotional connection with a woman, I think that has more meaning for most women than a man desiring a physical connection.

I think that's why women are usually more upset by emotional cheating and men more upset by physical cheating,

*Bolded*: I believe that most women could have sex whenever they want it, but I do not believe that they can always have sex with whoever they want. I do believe that they could have sex with many men they want. I do not think women can have relationships whenever they want and especially not with whoever they want. In short, they could usually have sex whenever they want, but they often wouldn't want to have sex with the men who are willing to have sex with them.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Ahhhh....fine distinction, but it makes sense. Yeah, I didn't fall for my husband because he wanted to have sex with me. But I definitely wanted to have sex with HIM. And sex is, for me, a primary vehicle through which I show and experience love and intimacy. Which is why a sexless first marriage was hell.

Yeah, I get what you are saying now.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I don't know how to respond to you. I say this with the upmost respect. Your wife had no problem initiating with the affair partners she has had. The problem is not her initiating but rather that she has stayed with you as her safe bet and ATM machine. Wife is not attracted to you. She pacifies you with a minimal amount of sex in order to keep you around to sustain her cosy little world.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Sports Fan said:


> I don't know how to respond to you. I say this with the upmost respect. Your wife had no problem initiating with the affair partners she has had. The problem is not her initiating but rather that she has stayed with you as her safe bet and ATM machine. Wife is not attracted to you. She pacifies you with a minimal amount of sex in order to keep you around to sustain her cosy little world.


Maybe so. I wasn't there so I don't know if she initiated with them or not. But she certainly didn't say no. Maybe it was different 15 yrs ago when there were "sharks in the water" swimming around the 30 yr old ladies.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Someone women suck at initiation, some don't do it at all... and some are so subtle with the sign that you might miss it all together.

When women ovulate (before period) they are hornier than normal. Be happy she is giving you the green light instead of getting all dolled up and 'going out with the girls'


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> Not relevant to this thread, except for demonstrating that people are real, not perfect. Perfect people wouldn't be on TAM, because they would have zero issues.


Damn. Now I have to re-think my opinion of myself.
hehehe aw c'mon, that's funny right there.

Seriously though the above comment is spot on.

Real people are messy.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

My definitive advice to men with wives who won't initiate is this. Let it go, complaining about it won't change it because she doesn't want to initiate, begging for her to initiate won't work because she doesn't want to. Women are not all talented actresses so even if they do it it will be obvious that they are forcing the initiation and then you won't be satisfied with their efforts. 

Gentlemen, some women view initiating sex as a masculine trait, they want to be pursued. Yes men want to feel sexually desired, but many women also don't find a man in a submissive role attractive. Instead of worrying about her initiating, set the stage by making sure you present yourself in the most attractive way possible. Seduce your wife show your masculinity and pay more attention to her mental state and initiate when you are fairly confident she doesn't have a million other things going on in her head. Initiate through actions, affection, flirtation not just right before your want to get down to business but as a rule all the time. Initiate physically not by asking can we please have sex tonight, that is just not attractive. Getting into the whole pouting about her not taking the initiator role regularly is working against your frequency of sex. 

Another question to ask your self if you want your wife to initiate. Are you making sure she has reason to want to initiate? Are you making yourself a sex object in her eyes? Thats two questions. 

I totally get the frustration with her not initiate. After we first had kids my wife probably didn't initiate sex for a few years and our sex frequency dropped from almost daily to once a week. For a brief time I went into a funk about it, but I decided I would be more conscious about being attractive to her, doing things she appreciated giving lots of affection, subtle flirting, making her feel sexy, and gave her time to decompress and relax, then I would be the aggressor when the time was right. My success rate went way up and soon we were more in sync and back to having sex probably 5 times a week. We still have sex close to daily and if we don't have sex there is still a strong sexual vibe between us. And when we do have sex I make damn sure she is fully satisfied. 

The result of all this is she initiates again. I am two different people to her, I am the husband and dad in the trenches with her, and then I am the secret lover she likes to get freaky with who will do anything to please her sexually and in return she does the same for me. Being in sync is important. 

When I got home from the world series at 3:30 this morning I fell into bed she asked if I had fun I said yes and she gave me the side turn and just pulled her yoga pants down and said now empty your nuts. I thought well thats aggressive but ok. 

And most importantly when you do have sex, for gods sake make it good for her. Call me captain obvious.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

"Empty your nuts" - that's funny. I always have an open door but occasionally I would like some initiation from the other side. But I guess that is just not in her nature, even in other relationships she has had along the way. She used the term "human dildo" to describe a former partner once.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Steve2.0 said:


> Someone women suck at initiation, some don't do it at all... and some are so subtle with the sign that you might miss it all together.
> 
> When women ovulate (before period) they are hornier than normal. Be happy she is giving you the green light instead of getting all dolled up and 'going out with the girls'


I don't know if she is horny, maybe just last opportunity for a week or so.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> Not relevant to this thread, except for demonstrating that people are real, not perfect. Perfect people wouldn't be on TAM, because they would have zero issues.


Oh, but there _are _perfect people here on TAM. They come here to grace the rest of us with their wisdom and perfection. That's how perfect and giving they are. If you don't believe me, just ask them and they'll tell you, all the while doling out their one-size-fits-all advice and criticism while ignoring individual circumstances and that messy complexity of which you speak.


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## Where there's a will (Feb 10, 2014)

SO never initiates, never starts with any desire, never refuses, doesn't make any effort atall during, resists any change of routine, can't talk about it. I have always thought this was how it was for everyone so stayed together. Now hitting 60. Am I in the majority? Would like to know the percentage of hd/ld combos as a part of the whole (others being Ldhd, ldld ,hdhd). 
TAM I guess does not have hdhd posting as they are too busy having fun!


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I would say I am medium desire, she is low desire. Of all the things she thinks about during the day, screaming orgasms isn't one of them. Women are wired differently. They only need the curves to woo a husband, not because they have desire.


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

Look up Responsive Desire. It’s common and perfectly valid. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Texican (Jan 11, 2012)

MD - thanks for sharing. Sorry to hear of yawls issue's.
No real advice. 
Hope things get better for you.

I'm blessed with a wife/woman who will have sex anytime...just a touch and it's on....and I am very thankful for her. She wants sex all the time and anytime...it's been that way for 40 year now.

It seem obvious, but perhaps if you can be intimate with her, kissing, petting, making her orgasm manually repeatedly and then F...her good....rough her up abit....

All the best pawdnaaahhhh...


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> My point is my W's version of initiating is telling me I need to intiate. Which is a roundabout way of saying she doesn't initiate.


Are your orgasms better when she initiates or when you initiate?


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

happyhusband0005 said:


> My definitive advice to men with wives who won't initiate is this. Let it go, complaining about it won't change it because she doesn't want to initiate, begging for her to initiate won't work because she doesn't want to. Women are not all talented actresses so even if they do it it will be obvious that they are forcing the initiation and then you won't be satisfied with their efforts.
> 
> Gentlemen, some women view initiating sex as a masculine trait, they want to be pursued. Yes men want to feel sexually desired, but many women also don't find a man in a submissive role attractive. Instead of worrying about her initiating, set the stage by making sure you present yourself in the most attractive way possible. Seduce your wife show your masculinity and pay more attention to her mental state and initiate when you are fairly confident she doesn't have a million other things going on in her head. Initiate through actions, affection, flirtation not just right before your want to get down to business but as a rule all the time. Initiate physically not by asking can we please have sex tonight, that is just not attractive. Getting into the whole pouting about her not taking the initiator role regularly is working against your frequency of sex.
> 
> ...


Gawd, can you please write a book? Your experience and reaction and resultant success is so spot-on.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> Gawd, can you please write a book? Your experience and reaction and resultant success is so spot-on.


Looks like I did with this post, that was a long one.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Looks like I did with this post, that was a long one.


Well, obviously, you figured it out and it works beyond expectations. You described better than I ever could the path that a man can choose to lead to a happy union for both people.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> happyhusband0005 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like I did with this post, that was a long one.
> ...


IF his wife is willing


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## Uselessmale (May 20, 2017)

My wife told me (once) “I’m going to bed in ten minutes”. How’s that for flirting and fore play? Would have only been duty sex anyway. Not that she cared.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Or “you coming to bed?” Or “you gonna take a shower?” 

Like mine she talks around it if she’s not just lying there naked. I think a lot of women either see it as “great one more thing I have to be responsible for and I don’t feel like making this a big production” or “it’s crude, embarrassing and just something we do but never talk about.”


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

happiness27 said:


> Are your orgasms better when she initiates or when you initiate?


No difference I think, although it is difficult to remember the last time she initiated (1999) and what the orgasm was like.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Dusk said:


> Look up Responsive Desire. It’s common and perfectly valid.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I found a good article on responsive desire. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/pame...sire_b_6775856.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000006 
It describes what I have already been doing but now I know it's name.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

"We can fool around tonight" aka "you can hump my lifeless body like a dog humps a human's leg". Have you told her this makes your desire shrivel up and die? Being blunt can be the wakeup call that your partner sometimes needs.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Dusk said:
> 
> 
> > Look up Responsive Desire. It’s common and perfectly valid.
> ...


I admire you for taking such a proactive interest. This article is quite interesting.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

People want to do things that are enjoyable to them. They will make time to do things that are enjoyable to them. Beyond the pleasure of an orgasm, I imagine some people aren't that enjoyable to have sex with. I seldom see people consider that "Am I an enjoyable F?"


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> *I'm pretty sure there WILL be a difference between a woman you are married to and a first date. I mean, common sense would dictate you aren't going to be thinking "responsive desire" on a first date.
> 
> But maybe common sense isn't so common...*


*I cannot help but agree, meaning that if you are in your early dating regimen, sex usually avails itself, st some point in time, by a pass being made by either party, and is then usually accompanied in logical progression by some mutual hot and heavy making out, some heavy petting, with a little oral thrown in for good measure!

All before getting to the main event! 

The fairer question is who is more apt to make the first pass, be it verbal or nonverbal, or passive or non-passive before the physical accoutrements begin?*


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Perhaps her history explains alot. She was a drop dead gorgeous model in her teens and early 20s. And then she started working in a male dominated profession. There were always plenty of guys circling around, telling her how great she was and willing to do anything for a chance to take it farther. She really didn't have to do anything.

Like the old saying - cute girls go out broke, come home drunk. She never paid for food, drinks, cigarettes, and always had a ride home.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> This is the serial cheater who had multiple affairs and brought her boyfriend(s) into your home and into your bedroom, your bathroom, and had sex with them in your bed?
> 
> Every single thing she's ever DONE is a selfish choice designed to benefit* her *and no one else. But there must be some sort of payoff in staying with someone like her because you're still there, getting the short end of the stick.
> 
> Is she an heiress to the MM/MARS fortune?


Why didn't the thread end here? Seriously. Discussion over. Oh, your wife is a serial cheater. Enough said. Move on. Stop trying to drain blood from a stone. It's not going to happen.

Responsive desire, initiating, being more dominant.... NONE of this has any bearing on this particular situation. Your wife is a cheater. She runs out to get her needs met with others. Then she comes home to you and lays there like a slug and sometimes gives you crumbs when the hormones are just right. 

I guess if that's your kink, more power to you, but this is the equivalent of buying a pet tiger and then getting online to complain that he keeps biting your appendages off. "Did you try to be more dominant with it? Smack it on the nose?!" Uhhh... he has a pet freaking tiger. Take it to the zoo. Get a guinea pig.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Whereas that statement, in my own household, is music to my ears. (Given that we are in a once every other day pattern, and that statement, is usually dessert after my breakfast-my usual is, How about a roll in the hay?-Visions of Terri Garr in Young Frankenstein abound). If that statement is not followed up with actions, it would be frustrating at first, then annoying. finally ending in hostility. I believe that a little openness is called for in this circumstance. Let her know that if she promises in the morning, she should not just be mouthing the words for the sake of saying it.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps her history explains alot. She was a drop dead gorgeous model in her teens and early 20s. And then she started working in a male dominated profession. There were always plenty of guys circling around, telling her how great she was and willing to do anything for a chance to take it farther. She really didn't have to do anything.
> 
> Like the old saying - cute girls go out broke, come home drunk. She never paid for food, drinks, cigarettes, and always had a ride home.


I'm with HappyHusband on this. Let go of her initiating. It kind of hit home one day when my wife said "If you're waiting for me to initiate, don't. I've never been like that and never will be. That's just not the woman I am."
I was like, "WTF are you talking about you used to initiate all of the time." Sex with her was frequent and effortless for fifteen years. Then I started thinking about it and realized that, no, she didn't. She rarely ever did. What she always did was invite me to initiate with her. "We can fool around tonight" is something I'd love to hear. I know it sounds like she's reluctantly having sex with you, but women want the man to be the man. 

So now you talk about how effortless affection has been for her, it makes even more sense. All her life she's had alapha males hitting on her and unfortunately that's the norm she grew to know. Waiting around for her to initiate is not in her nature. She's used to fending off men without hurting their feelings the way I"m pretty sure it does yours.

I went through the same damn thing. I threw in the towel as a victim and decided we wouldn't have sex until she came around and initiated. I needed the validation that she would eventually initiate with me because she wanted me. Three months went by and I learned that wasn't working.

So yeah, I had a constructive conversation with her about revitalizing our sex life and she made it clear making her happy was a good start, but that she's not an initiator and never will be. Somehow I missed that for nearly 20 years.. If I'm waiting for her, then it's not gonna happen. Sure I may may not get a yes, but if I don't ask, I'm not gonna get it. It's not worth getting a bruised ego over because it really has nothing to do with me or her interest in me. It's that she's a woman that needs to be pursued.

It's 1.6 million years of evolution, the way I see it.

Now she does come around and let me know when she's up for it, but she stops there and it has taken some work to get her to that point. That's my green light to do my thing and the more confident I am about it, the more turned on she gets. But I don't always wait for that. Sometimes I just have to decide to try, maybe I get rejected, but sometimes I'll push for the contingency "If not tonight, maybe Monday night?"

Figuring that out changed everything. I nutted up and became a man. I also learned in bed that my wife loved to be dominated. I honestly never knew that but one night I pulled her hair doing doggy and she went wild. I held her down missionary and she went crazy. She like is when I "take her." As long as I'm not disrespectful, hurt her, or abusive, she likes the dominance. I'm just glad I figured it out before another guy because clearly I wasn't giving her something she secretly wanted.

So my advice is nut-up. Count yourself lucky that she's giving you an invitation. Turn "we can fool around" into "Damn right, you're mine tonight!"

I have no idea what she's like and women obviously vary wildly as to what they respond to. Some women are turned off by one thing and others are offended if you don't do that same thing. But it sounds like she wants a guy to take charge so I can suggest you try being more dominant with her in tactful slow increments and see how she responds. 

Don't be the victim. Be the master.

God, I hope this isn't bad advice (cringe)


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

JamesTKirk said:


> I'm with HappyHusband on this. Let go of her initiating. It kind of hit home one day when my wife said "If you're waiting for me to initiate, don't. I've never been like that and never will be. That's just not the woman I am."
> I was like, "WTF are you talking about you used to initiate all of the time." Sex with her was frequent and effortless for fifteen years. Then I started thinking about it and realized that, no, she didn't. She rarely ever did. What she always did was invite me to initiate with her. "We can fool around tonight" is something I'd love to hear. I know it sounds like she's reluctantly having sex with you, but women want the man to be the man.
> 
> So now you talk about how effortless affection has been for her, it makes even more sense. All her life she's had alapha males hitting on her and unfortunately that's the norm she grew to know. Waiting around for her to initiate is not in her nature. She's used to fending off men without hurting their feelings the way I"m pretty sure it does yours.
> ...


The biggest thing is that the two of you worked it out - kudos to you for incredible insights into her, into your own thinking and towards a solution.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

dadstartingover said:


> She'sStillGotIt said:
> 
> 
> > This is the serial cheater who had multiple affairs and brought her boyfriend(s) into your home and into your bedroom, your bathroom, and had sex with them in your bed?
> ...


So tell me more about your perfect life. Marriages have issues. People have issues. This is called talk about marriage after all. If you knew everything about our lives you might think differently, but to each his own. I know one guy who divorced because his W gained 10 pounds after child birth. But that's not the topic of discussion.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I don't think women like to initiate, they want you to chase them and show how much you want them so they feel desired. If you are like me then you just want to get your nut off but women like the foreplay and such. Regardless, she is waving you in, run with it. You are 20 years plus into a marriage and still getting laid, count yourself as one of the lucky ones.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I don't think women like to initiate, they want you to chase them and show how much you want them so they feel desired. If you are like me then you just want to get your nut off but women like the foreplay and such. Regardless, she is waving you in, run with it. You are 20 years plus into a marriage and still getting laid, count yourself as one of the lucky ones.


Agreed. The exhausting and demoralizing or a blow to the ego thing is the repeated avoidance and rejection. As men we should just be wired to brush it off and try again and not let it get to us. But after a while it starts to seem like your wife that was once into you is now just tolerating sex with you and that wears you down.

Understanding that women are just inherently the ones that want to be in pursuit, to rebuff you when they aren't into it, or accept you when they are, is important to understand and is something that we should just accept.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

JamesTKirk said:


> Agreed. The exhausting and demoralizing or a blow to the ego thing is the repeated avoidance and rejection. As men we should just be wired to brush it off and try again and not let it get to us. But after a while it starts to seem like your wife that was once into you is now just tolerating sex with you and that wears you down.
> 
> Understanding that women are just inherently the ones that want to be in pursuit, to rebuff you when they aren't into it, or accept you when they are, is important to understand and is something that we should just accept.


My hubs and I were at some formal event back 20 years ago and the wife of one of his buddies came up to my husband and whispered in his ear: "I WANT you in that uniform."

He didn't tell me about that until about 3 years ago. 

I thought, "Well WTF? Why didn't *I* say something like that?" Sheesh. We ladies can get blind sometimes. What does it take for us to be reminded?


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