# Time Apart - Boundaries?



## JohnM35 (Sep 1, 2021)

M35 married to F35 for 12 years. 

Before we married I would go play basketball 1-2x week. However, after I got married I noticed that my wife would be upset whenever I returned from a game. I would get the cold shoulder. I also felt uncomfortable inviting my friends over to the house as I perceived that it bothered her.

We've talked about the situation a few times and she comments that she does not need time apart from me and questions why I need time apart from her. Every time I go out and do things on my own, which is not very often, I feel guilty and a pit in my stomach with anticipation of finding her unhappy when I get home. 

The most recent example: A couple of days ago a friend invited me over to his house after work. I get off a couple of hours before she does. So I let her know that I was going over to my friends and she texted me back - "[facepalm emoji] why doesn't he go back to work so that he is not bored at home alone." I hope that she was joking, but deep inside me I feel she said it as she was unhappy. My wife arrived home after work maybe 30 min before I did. I walked in the house and greeted her, leaned in for a kiss and she didn't turn to face me so I kissed her on the cheek. She was quiet for the next few hours. If I asked her a questions she would respond but it was a short dry reply.

My wife doesn't have any hobbies of her own. All the activities she does have to include me. 

I am a major people pleaser and feel that my need to keep her form getting upset has led to this issue persisting.

Am I wrong in wanting to spend time to pursue my hobbies without her? Whenever I get an invite from my friends to go play golf, pool, basketball or any activity I feel uneasy even binging it up.

Other than these occasional outings I only go to work and back home. Everywhere else, we go together. We go out to dinner at least 1 a week. We have homemade dinner together every workday. Either I cook and have it ready when she gets home or she cooks on the days she is off (2x week).

What do you think?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

No you’re not wrong. It is actually very healthy. I would advise you to encourage her to start a hobby or activities that can help her develop some friendships. Hopefully she can make some friends that will not be a good influence. 

I noticed that you’re involved in things that center around being with other guys. You’re not out clubbing or bar hopping. She should be glad about that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I think it's sounds very reasonable that you have hobbies and friends you do things with. 
Doesnt she have any friends? Do the wives of your friends do things they could invite her too? 
She really needs to find things she can do. Hobbies, sports, surely there is something she is interested in. 

As for her sulking, not sure what you can do about that except ignore it.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

How much time do you spend with her? It’s a common issue. Sometimes a spouse will get upset because they want some time together, but their husband and wife has more time for hobbies and friends and family and forgets about them. So if this is you, maybe that’s why she’s upset?

Otherwise, it could be something else. What’s she said that you’re not telling us? If you’re also spending time going out and doing fun stuff with her (regularly), then it’s her issue.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Your wife is going through something that really doesn’t have to do with you. Maybe she is feeling isolated and/or alone? I’d suggest having a talk with her about the following:

A) validate that you love her and your time together
B) check in with her and her mental state (is she going through something? How is she feeling day to day?)
C) tell her you want her to dedicate some of her time to recharging and connecting with others

You may find that she feels left out or down because she doesn’t have the outlets you have. I personally went through this a few years ago when I was pregnant with my first child. We had moved to a new city as newlyweds and my husband had a ton of friends from the police academy. I felt like a dope all pregnant, sick, and not having anyone to hangout with. This wasn’t my husband’s fault or his responsibility to “fix”, but it was nice when he finally figured out why I was in a slump. I personally didn’t know that was why I felt so off!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

JohnM35 said:


> My wife doesn't have any hobbies of her own. All the activities she does have to include me.
> 
> I am a major people pleaser and feel that my need to keep her form getting upset has led to this issue persisting.


Both of you are coming at this from pretty unhealthy directions. Did your wife have any friends or outside interests when you were dating?

People pleasers never end up pleasing other people or themselves. My guess is you're resentful of her demands. What's the worst she can do - scream until her head explodes? draw a gun on you? I mean, c'mon man ... BOUNDARIES. Tell her you are going to pursue some interests/hobbies without her. My guess is she'll pull the manipulative crap of giving you the silent treatment.

Tell her what you are going to do with your friends and keep doing it. She doesn't like it? That's HER problem. Why do you have to be her only friend? She sounds a bit broken to me.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

She’s being weird. It’s good to have your own stuff going. Do any of your friends have wives, girlfriends? Maybe try to get coworkers to have a “wife and GF” night and bring your wife to try and get her to loosen up a bit.

I like spending time with my wife but she knows not to mess with my sports.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

How often are you doing things with friends?

When you do things ....what are you doing? How long are you with them?

Example going golfing will last 4-6 hrs. 

Does your wife have friends and if so is she doing things with them? If so how often?

Look forward to your answers to these questions. You should definitely be able to spend time with friends but the question is how often are you doing this?

Remember you're not single any longer. That doesn't mean that you give up spending time with friends and doing your hobbies altogether but it does mean finding a good balance.


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## JohnM35 (Sep 1, 2021)

To answer some of your questions.

My wife has some friends from church but I wouldn't say they are close friends. They text here and there and mostly comment on each others social media posts. I encourage her to invite them shopping, getting their nails done, etc. But it hasn't happened. During the last year we got together 2x with her friends and their husbands. We went bike riding and hiking. Which I was happy about because she does need someone other than me to socialize with. I also encourage socializing with her friends as she has commented that she doesn't have much in common with my friends' wives. 

A few times she's commented something like: "I think it is funny that every time we get together for a BBQ, Karaoke, etc. it always the guys that make all the plans". But if it wasn't for that then we would rarely get together. We have hosted a handful of dinners at our place and game nights which she arranged.

I don't go out without her very often. We've been married 12 years now and I can say that on an average year I go out without her maybe 5x for maybe 2-3 hours. When I say I go play golf, we go to a 9 hole-par3. Which doesn't take long to finish and I've gone a whopping 2x in the times we've been married. 

Together we do stuff like: Hiking, Bike Riding, Tennis, Go out to dinner a lot, take her shopping, visit her family at least 1x week. 

I feel like going out and doing an activity for myself 1-2x per month for 2-3 hours would be enough to recharge. In your experience, am I asking for too much time? How much time to others spend apart?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

You are right, do not cave. 

She is being either irrational or evil. Irrational would be seeing any time w/ others as detracting from your love for her. Evil would be trying to cut away your support so she has more control.

Tell her what you've told us, and offer to do couples counselling w/ her for her benefit. If all she does is see that your friends aren't a threat, that is of benefit to her and solves your immediate problem. If she takes it to the next step and realizes friends of her own aren't a problem but a Good Thing, so much the better but you can't really ask for this.

If it seems like the path of least resistance is to cave, find some men this worked out for. I've mostly known men who eventually gave their spouse total control and suffered accordingly, or wound up divorcing after they'd abandoned the friends they now needed worse than ever.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

JohnM35 said:


> My wife doesn't have any hobbies of her own. All the activities she does have to include me.
> * * *
> What do you think?


I think your wife needs a hobby & friends. Independence keeps marriage fresh. Being joined at the hip is stifling.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

JohnM35 said:


> I feel like going out and doing an activity for myself 1-2x per month for 2-3 hours would be enough to recharge. In your experience, am I asking for too much time? How much time to others spend apart?


This is beyond reasonable and I would say on the low-end for activities with friends. There are plenty of guys who have regular / scheduled weekly events, like golf on sunday morning with friends, friday cocktail hour, mid-week bowling night... running / biking get togethers.... 

Your wife is being completely unreasonable here. Sounds like she is a homebody and maybe has some social anxiety and doesn't want to do these types of things, and is forcing you to adapt to her fears.

I would draw a line (without yelling or fighting) and calmly explain why this is important and reasonable, if she baulks at all, tell her that the two of you will attend counseling....


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Are there are good women's groups at the church? She wont make good friends unless she spends time with people.


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## JohnM35 (Sep 1, 2021)

I really appreciate all the responses. I have a really difficult time standing up for myself and many times question my right to do things that I enjoy in order to keep others happy. I've always feared not doing things the correct way and when I get resistance I easily convince myself that I'm the one that is wrong and usually cave to keep the peace. I'm sure is it going to be tough to implement but at this pace I fear resentment will get the better of me in the long run.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

It doesn't sound like you're going out and doing things on your own or with your friends that much at all. 

Your wife needs to take a chill pill when you do and more importantly she should WANT you to do things that make you happy (playing golf from time to time).

You did mention that you and your wife only go out roughly five times a year? Maybe shoot for once a month.

Also remember your wife is NOT your mommy and thus you don't need her permission to do things. If you want to play golf, and there's no other obligations you have, go play and have fun. You don't ask her if you can go you tell her you're going.

If she wants to throw an adult temper tantrum or give you the silent treatment when you return just do what you'd do if it was your three yr old throwing a tantrum in the grocery store. Let her do what she's going to do and walk away.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

This is how it starts. Death by a thousand concessions. If you cave to everything she wants eventually one day she'll look at you and say "you've changed, you're not the man I married.....I'm leaving you for Tyrone".


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

It’s rare to see a thread like this. We get more of husbands that have wives who are doing the GNO to clubs or bars full of singles all while dressing provocatively. If you were doing something like that, I could understand her apprehension but you’re occasionally going out with the guys during the day doing activities that don’t have women around.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

JohnM35 said:


> I have a really difficult time standing up for myself and many times question my right to do things that I enjoy in order to keep others happy.* I've always feared not doing things the correct way* and when I get resistance I easily convince myself that I'm the one that is wrong and usually cave to keep the peace.


I respect your honesty. But, as you are finding out, trying to keep others happy is not your responsibility. I'm wondering if you could expound on what I bolded. How do you see caving to your wife as doing things the "correct" way? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying there.

Keeping the peace is all well and good ... as long as the price exacted is not so high that you end up feeling frustrated and resentful. 

I hope you can see that your wife knows all about your people-pleasing and exploits it to manipulate you to do things her way. No way to live, man. 

Figure out why you fear confrontation - because it's pretty much inevitable in life - and learn to be comfortable asserting yourself. Regardless of your wife's attitude.

ETA: Many years ago, I lived with a guy who was King of the Beta Boys. I had no respect for him. Sure, he was a nice guy. Everyone just loved Jack. But I didn't respect him. Not. One. Bit. I eventually moved out. Women don't find men attractive when they're doormats. Sorry. Sad, but true ....


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

JohnM35 said:


> We've talked about the situation a few times and she comments that she does not need time apart from me and questions why I need time apart from her.


From a personal view, all I can offer is that I don't perceive what my husband does outside of us as needing time apart from me. Rather, he is engaging with things and people that add to his life, and so I don't perceive it as him needing to be apart from me... maybe he does though!  The roll-on effect is that it's good for us as a couple too. Gives us different things to share and talk about, for a start. And we do have a way of still including one another, without the other actively involved.

I don't know if what I'm about to share is helpful to you at all, and keeping in mind that my husband is not a people-pleaser, however, a moment that I'm not particularly proud of was my reaction when he was signing up to volunteer a few years back. I did not want him joining. My issue wasn't about so-called time apart, I was worried about his safety. It was important to him on a personal level and he basically told me that I needed to get right with it and it was happening. Here's where perhaps personality types and dynamic of the relationship comes into play. I was not happy at the time but he made it clear where he stood. And so, with that scenario I decided okay, I need to get right with it. He also helped with that by sharing about different aspects of what he was doing, introducing me to the people involved, and what support he needed from me. It didn't take long for me to 'get' why he felt the need to do this, and appreciate what it meant in his life in terms of camaraderie, community, and all that good stuff. I respect the pants off him for the commitment and growth he demonstrates. While this context is a bit different to what you are mentioning, my husband did not appease the strong view I once held; and which quickly adjusted. I have no idea if that's a workable approach for others, still just throwing it out there.

What you have shared seems extremely reasonable. The only unreasonable aspect is your unwillingness to be confrontational. It seems that you acknowledge that your actions are healthy and reasonable within a marriage, and as you don't want resentment to seep in (although this dynamic has seemingly occurred for many years), then what have you to lose from asserting yourself?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

JohnM35 said:


> M35 married to F35 for 12 years.
> 
> Before we married I would go play basketball 1-2x week. However, after I got married I noticed that my wife would be upset whenever I returned from a game. I would get the cold shoulder. I also felt uncomfortable inviting my friends over to the house as I perceived that it bothered her.
> 
> ...


Invite her to come along, if shee says no, say i thought she does not need time away from you so why is she choosing to stay home?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

JohnM35 said:


> I really appreciate all the responses. I have a really difficult time standing up for myself and many times question my right to do things that I enjoy in order to keep others happy. I've always feared not doing things the correct way and when I get resistance I easily convince myself that I'm the one that is wrong and usually cave to keep the peace. I'm sure is it going to be tough to implement but at this pace I fear resentment will get the better of me in the long run.


Read NMMNG.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Dude, you should read my little rant about spending time with the Mrs, you look like a saint in comparison to me. Truth is, you need this, if she can’t get on board with it, that’s her problem, as long as you’re doing your share and not totally neglecting her, you’re ok to meet your own needs. 

I would read no more mr nice guy, its interesting even if it doesn’t apply to you, but being a pleaser, is definitely a symptom


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## JohnM35 (Sep 1, 2021)

Thanks again... Many times I do invite her to go, but there are times that it is nice just to go out with the guys. For example, I've gone many times to play tennis, basketball with her but when I go with her it is usually a shoot around session or a slow back and forth with tennis. I'm not saying it is not fun and good bonding time but although she has gotten better it's just not at the level that I play at. 

I really do appreciate your input though, it is refreshing to see that I am not being unreasonable. This gives me some hope!

I will also take on the suggested reading - "no more mr nice guy"


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

No one likes to feel like they are a prisoner. Time away with friends gives you something to talk about with your wife. It enhances your relationship. Your wife could benefit from outings with friends.


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## JohnM35 (Sep 1, 2021)

So here is an update: 

My wife had a 5 day weekend. She was off from Thursday until Monday. I was off Sat-Monday. 

Friday I got home from work and we had a date night. We went out for dinner and then she wanted to go shopping. So we did.
Saturday I mowed the lawn and did some cleaning around the house. She did some cleaning inside the house and she exercised a bit. We later went to my parents house for a late lunch for about 2 hours or so. After that we went back home and just lounged around.
Sunday we went to church, then we had lunch together at the house. I went to sit out in our yard and type some letters and she took a nap. She later wanted a coffee so I took her to get a coffee and then to her parents house where we spent the rest of the afternoon (2-3 hours). We got home and did some exercise together. 
Monday I did some yard work in the morning while she put away some clothes that had been washed. By this time my friend invited me to his house later that day so I walked in the house and let her know then went back to working outside. After she finished folding clothes I invited her to sit outside with me for and we chatted and watched/shared some social media. We came inside and had lunch together and then sat on the couch until I left with my friend.

When I got home she was exercising in the garage and went to let her know I was home. I could sense that she was upset. She sits next to me and tell me that me going out is becoming a habit and she does not like that. She was not yelling, but you could tell in her voice that she was upset. I was already expecting her to be upset so of course I was hurt. I kept my calm but she says my voice sounded upset. "I asked her what about me going out to do something that I like bothers you?" And again, she tells me the same thing she always does: I just don't understand why you need to spend time alone with my friends. That she has friends but doesn't have the need to take time on her own. I told her that it is unfair of her to expect me to have the same needs as she does. That it is unrealistic for her to have to satisfy all my wants/needs because we are different human beings with different likes/wants and that is okay and that goes both ways. 

She told me that I had gone to his house last Monday and again this Monday and that was a pattern that she would not tolerate. I tried to reason with her but she would not accept any of it. 
I told her that it is uncommon that I go out weekly. But that I try to schedule my outings when I do not interrupt "our" time. last Monday, I got home at 6:30 which is the normal time she gets home. however, that Monday she got home about an hour earlier. So, I was not home when she arrived. She was also disturbed that Monday but didn't say anything and a few hours later was calm again.

I feel like our conversation went nowhere and that we are both frustrated because both our our needs are not being met. I just feel that her expectations are irrational.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You need to tell her that she is suffocating you. Tell her that you will not tolerate being treated like a prisoner. It's unfortunate that she has no friends to socialize with on her own; but, she doesn't get to *own* your life. You have to make a stand. She is isolating you and that is a standard flag for abuse.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, her expectations are irrational. She’s not going to be happy unless she controls 100% of your time and she’s going to punish you every time you don’t obey.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

This is not healthy and loving. As a continued pattern by her, my suggestion is to make a stand …and be prepared to leave.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

JohnM35 said:


> So here is an update:
> 
> My wife had a 5 day weekend. She was off from Thursday until Monday. I was off Sat-Monday.
> 
> ...


 Tell her the shopping is becoming a pattern and you will not tolerate it. Sounds like you are willing to tag along when she wants to go do something but she does not necessarily want to go do your things and is pissy you are not at her disposal for attention when she wants it.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

JohnM35 said:


> My wife doesn't have any hobbies of her own. All the activities she does have to include me.


well....that does seem to be the whole problem. she also probably has few if any female friends to hang out with. 
Fully devoting her life to you and your marriage is not necessarily a bad thing....but most people need some time off to relax without their spouse being there. So she might actually be happier IF she did some other activities.

Are there church groups or charities she could volunteer at? college classes she could take? cooking classes?

would you describe her as an introvert? they actually can only handle limited amounts off other people in their lives. maybe her safe space is with you alone, but she is afraid of doing things with others because of the introvert personality? Not sure how to fix that, but knowing the root cause is a good start!


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

There's SO many things wrong here.

Your wife is insecure.

Your wife is jealous of you that you have friends and other interests and she does not.

Where does she get off telling you that she won't "tolerate" you doing something you enjoy?

Your wife's behavior is suffocating and is slowly strangling the life out of you and your marriage.

You obviously know that this behavior can't continue. Your wife is selfish. Instead of being happy that you're experiencing different things and relationships she only looks at how it affects her.

Does she get bent out of shape if you read a book? That's not something you're doing with her but I guess she's good with it if it's in the confines of your home. If you went to the library by yourself to read a book she'd get pissed off.

She's supposed to be your wife NOT a prison guard.

This is only going to get worse. There's obviously no reasoning with her as well. I guess the bigger question is what are you prepared to do about this? You either put up with it (and how's that working out for you?), or you put your freaking foot down and say "no more".

She either backs the F off or you walk away. Leave. Be prepared to separate. It's a boundary that she's stepping over and this isn't what you signed up for.

None of your behavior is out of line.

You have to show your wife by your actions that her behavior isn't going to fly and if it continues there will be consequences. Do NOT tell her this if you aren't willing to follow through.

You already had a mommy.

This is no way to live but I think you already know this.

What are you prepared to do about it?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Think about showing her this thread. Hopefully, it would give her perspective on expectations placed on a spouse. No one person can be another's 'everything'.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i would not take ANY of the drastic advice on this thread seriously.
just help her to find some female friends to hang out with.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

JohnM35 said:


> M35 married to F35 for 12 years.
> 
> Before we married I would go play basketball 1-2x week. However, after I got married I noticed that my wife would be upset whenever I returned from a game. I would get the cold shoulder. I also felt uncomfortable inviting my friends over to the house as I perceived that it bothered her.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a co dependent relationship. How was it when you were dating and when you first got married? Was it like this, or did you both have your own things going on?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

heartsbeating said:


> From a personal view, all I can offer is that I don't perceive what my husband does outside of us as needing time apart from me. Rather, he is engaging with things and people that add to his life, and so I don't perceive it as him needing to be apart from me...


Exactly! I feel the same.

A lot of the time, men don't seem to get that the problem isn't what they're doing, but rather what they're not doing. That doesn't seem to be the case here though.

OP, I can't see anything you're doing wrong at all. If you were going off for hours each night, or both days every weekend, that would be a problem but you're not. 

The only thing _perhaps_ you could have done differently, is before accepting the invite from your friend on the Monday, is run it past your wife to make sure there was nothing planned for that evening, as you were spending the day together. I know I would have appreciated it if my husband did that, but you may have done just that, I just couldn't tell from the post.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Luckylucky said:


> How much time do you spend with her? It’s a common issue. Sometimes a spouse will get upset because they want some time together, but their husband and wife has more time for hobbies and friends and family and forgets about them. So if this is you, maybe that’s why she’s upset?
> 
> Otherwise, it could be something else. What’s she said that you’re not telling us? If you’re also spending time going out and doing fun stuff with her (regularly), then it’s her issue.


It is important that both have their own hobbies, friends etc. The problem arises when a couple lives very separate lives and those hobbies and friends rank before their spouse. This is what happened (among other things) in our marriage. I am very independent so didn't make a fuss about him away all day Sat golfing, or visiting his family or out drinking with buddies. However, he spent less and less time with me and I fought against it a little(when the kids left as it was more noticeable, as i did all the kids stuff, driving, family days, school sports, etc.) but the routine was set. I gave up trying and now I don't give a **** where he is and what he does. He tries to reach out to me to do things, if it pleases me I will do it but if I have something else planned that ranks before him. Just saying, you reap what you sow. I would suggest you sit down and talk about it and see what her insecurities are first, then set boundaries, as you will need your own time and space. If it builds resentment in her, then it will backfire in the long run, so better to talk about it and reach a happy medium. She also needs to get a life separate from you.


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## JohnM35 (Sep 1, 2021)

Before we got married we did have separate lives. We would talk on the phone often but I was able to do my own things. I would visit her one evening mid-week and then we would spend weekend afternoons together. Many times she would meet me at the park where a group of us got together to play and then afterwards we would go to dinner or a movie, etc. I've brought this to her attention as well. 
It is just frustrating that I get so little in return. I want her to be happy and I enjoy doing things with her that makes her happy, but I want to be happy too.

I know I am just venting now because all the advise I am getting is very similar.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So, when are you going to do something about it?


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