# The Criminality of Snooping



## Copingwithit (Nov 8, 2012)

I refrain from posting my story since it really is like many of the others here. But I do notice one HUGH Trend on this forum and that is to put spyware on computers / smart phones and use Voice Activated Recorders ( VAR ) in the cheaters car, home, work place or purse and suck down the contents of a phone or a SIM Card.

The GIANT problem is this sort of stuff is ILLEGAL in just about every state within the United States. 

I will speak about NY for example. It is a one party state as far as recording go. So that means I can record a conversation between me and you and not tell you. BUT I cannot record a conversation between you and someone else. That is wiretapping. Even with real life wiretaps you cannot listen to a conversation that is not related to the crime. So if I am listening to a Drugs dealers phone calls I only listen in long enough to determine if the call is about drugs or personal. So if the Drug Dealers mom calls up and we know she is not involved, we cannot listen in on when he might be coming home for dinner or to hear his mom say she loves him. 

You usually have around 20 seconds or so to determine if can listen to the call. ALL CALLS are recorded as is the termination. So if someone spot checks the logs and then hears you listened in on a call regarding the Drug Dealer and his mom going to dinner and not about drugs your in a mess of trouble and just lost your wiretap.

Reading Emails is the same as reading regular mail. Everyone knows you just can't open up someone regular snail mail and read it. The same goes for reading your spouses email. 

I completely understand and sympathize with people here being in the same boat. 

BUT PLEASE, PLEASE think before doing this stuff. If your spouse is vindictive or vengeful person you could end up being locked up or just not in a position to negotiate. End result you could have a situation where your spouse is now saying I want this and this or I will get you arrested. For some getting arrested could mean the end of a job as well. 

I can personally tell you, I have arrested people for reading there ex-wives email, ex-girlfriends email _( oddly enough it seems like women are usually the victims )_. Putting spyware on a computer and phones. 

Further sometimes these computers and phones are part of company. Which can cause another issue in which the company could press charges even if your spouse does not want to after finding out what you did. The usual complaint from the company is you disrupted their service or comprised their network. Basically a computer hacking case. Again I have made arrest for this as well. Those are very painful because the intended victim is now stuck because the company he works for is arresting his wife or husband and they also might still need to work their to pay the bills. Of course they might get fired as well so you have one arrested and one fired.

I am just trying to get his out because I notice someone comes here for help and within the first few posts or at least on the first page is someone posting about putting a VAR in every spot in the house and car and spyware on every electronic device this person might own. 

The problem is since everyone is so emotional they are really not thinking right. So they just read this and go out and spend five hundred dollars on all these gadgets and then get themselves into more trouble. 

Imagine you come here for help and already feel like your world is falling apart around you and then your arrested. It can put someone at the end of their rope, which I am pretty sure it is not what everyone here wants to do. 

Further I am pretty sure that poster giving those suggestions will not be there to help you out. No one is going to start a fund raiser for your lawyer(s). At most you will get is, it sucks to be you and then your thread will be sticky that others will link for people to read. 

At least at a minimum disclaimer yourself before suggesting such an idea. 

I expect to see someone one day walking around with one of those ear tags like you see on deer in the wild and just assume their spouse came to this forum. 

Again not Preaching, I'm just looking out for people who are in my boat as well.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Do you know about any case where someone was arrested, sued, or jailed for snooping on their cheating spouse? Your point would be much more illustrative with a specific example.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I'd rather spend my time in jail than home with an unfaithful spouse. 

Or in jail than a studio apartment. 

At least in jail, I know I wouldn't be supporting my lying cheating spouse with alimony. 

And if my spouse brought this against me, I would take EVERYTHING they would try to have a claim to, and either: spend it, hide it, give it to my lawyer, or burn it.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

There is a difference between a stranger aka the drug dealer or a random person aka the ex and someone who is your family and life aka wife or husband. I do not know of any law stating it illegal to open your spouses snail mail or email or keep tabs on where thier going and who they are with. If that was the case then things like google latitude and life 360 or any other tracking program would be illegal. 

Its a whole nother ball game when it comes to ones spouse. Now my own spouse as well as myself have family in law enforcement so I could check with them and be sure. Heckk ill have my spouse check with his family and post back what they say on this matter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Coping with it:

Good advice. 

But it's not always illegal. If a person co owns the computer or bought it with co-owned money it is not a crime to put spyware on it. At work it is a crime. Also, if any item like a car is co-owned it is not illegal to put a tracker on it. Using a VAR in the home of two married people is also not illegal. If it was the home of a boyfriend or girlfriend it might be in some states. Taping phone conversations in some states may be inadmissable in court but I don't know of any arrests associated with it. 

As someone who strayed twice I should support non-snooping with such devices, but it's not illegal in the vast majority of cases in a marriage. My wife found out because well, the other woman wanted more and these things have a way of getting around no matter how stealth you may be. 

These devices can help many people if used appropriately in the marital home and with co-owned items. But you are right people need to check.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

snap said:


> Do you know about any case where someone was arrested, sued, or jailed for snooping on their cheating spouse? Your point would be much more illustrative with a specific example.


I could see this now yes your honor my spouse was cheating and i looked at his/her email to verify


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

also, during my last D my H put spyware on our phone and in my car- not b/c I was cheating but b/c he wanted to know my game plan for the D. Judge said "perfectly legal" if those things are not used in criminal hearings or if those things are jointly owned. Goes for email and mail as well. Opening your spouse's mail is not jailable. Believe me, If it were I'd have put him in jail.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

It is completely illegal - and rightfully so - for law enforcement to snoop in the manner suggested here. The trail of evidence gathering must be accounted for legally - otherwise it is thrown out of court as inadmissible. Even THEN I have rarely heard of legal repercussions on INDIVIDUAL LE personnel unless they had an axe to grind. 

Evidence gathering for one's own knowledge is unlikely to get the full weight of law pitted against them. 

I suppose you have also arrested parents for eavesdropping on their 18 y/o children suspected of doing drugs. 

Thanks for the heads up anywho.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Man Charged in Reading Cheating Wife's Email - CBS News

I don't know how it turned out in the end.


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## FryFish (Sep 18, 2012)

lol @ the OP's claim of actually ARRESTING people for this... Doc Cool.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I know that usually people here do suggest the VARs or the keyloggers, but there are a couple of things to keep in mind that make the difference between what you are saying and what is being suggested. 

First things first. Here is a link to all of the Electronic Surveillance Laws, by state. Before anyone does ANYTHING you really do need to read the laws for your state. 

Next, most states have either one informed party or two. So almost anyone would be covered if they taped or saved any conversation or chat or emails between themselves and their spouse, especially if they told their spouse they were recording or saving, and if the spouse continued to speak to them it would be considered as permission. That would cover two party consent. 

However, 99 times out of 100 what we have are two things that make the difference between what you said, Copingwithit, and what is happening here. 

The #1 thing that makes a difference is that when the disloyal spouse is lying to their loyal husband or wife, it's suggested for the loyal to gather evidence in order to prove TO THEMSELVES that there really is something going on and it's not all in their head. Anything they find is not intended to be used as evidence in a court of law--it's so the loyal person knows they aren't going nuts and to prove that their suspicions were or were not true. If at all possible, it's easiest and best to gather evidence via low tech options like matching credit card detail on the statement to where they said they were going to be...matching ATM receipts to find out where the gift went...etc. But some folks do recommend VARs and keyloggers I think cuz nothing jars a loyal out of denial faster than hearing your current legal spouse kissing and having sex with another person. 

#2 it's a *spouse*, and that makes a huge difference because the vast majority of the time, as current spouses, either they own or co-own the hardware, pay or copay for the service (like cell phone or internet) etc. If they bought the PC with co-mingled funds, and they pay the internet bill with marital funds, and their spouse keeps a little notebook by their PC with their passwords, then as a spouse they have equal rights to look in their spouse's email on the PC they bought. Or equal rights to add a software to the PC they bought. Likewise for a cell phone they bought with marital funds and paid the cell bill with marital funds -- as a name on the account they can get a print out of the number of calls, the number of texts, etc. 

Copingwithit, you'll notice that you mention you arrested people who spied on their EX spouse or EX girl/boyfriend, and yep after they're an ex-anything and they are no longer in a spouse relationship, after the property is distributed, after marital funds are not used for the item or the bill, and after they have no reason to have access to either passwords or the cell phone itself, then there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER for the formerly loyal spouse to be snooping and that is illegal and stalking. But *during* the marriage, the legal status of spouses is that it is reasonable to expect information and property to be shared by the two spouses: he shares with her/she shares with him. It's somewhat different. 

So to summarize:
A) The gather evidence is to prove to the loyal spouse it's not just their imagination and it's not used in a court of law. 

B) The evidence is gathered from a current spouse. It's reasonable to assume some legal sharing between spouses, and often then own the car, own the PC, own the cell phone, pay for the internet or cell bill, and they know the spouse's password. So they are gathering evidence on their own property...not on an EX spouse or EX girl/boyfriend's property. 

Finally there is one situation where it is almost legally NECESSARY to carry a VAR (voice activated recorder) and that's when a female disloyal spouse is saying or acting like she's going to try to make a false abuse claim or report in order to have the male loyal spouse removed from the home...or if they are separated and she'd going to try to make a false abuse claim for more child support. In that instance I VERY STRONGLY indicate every time to hold the VAR or video camera where it can clearly be seen, state that you are recording and that if she continues to speak to you in is taken as consent, and record EVERY SINGLE time you are together.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> Man Charged in Reading Cheating Wife's Email - CBS News
> 
> I don't know how it turned out in the end.


The case was dismissed.

Rochester Hills man is cleared of snooping on wife's e-mail; she snooped on him too | Oakland County | Detroit Free Press | freep.com


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Also, I believe if the guy didn't try to gain illegal access to state's law enforcement database, he would't get in the trouble in first place.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I spoke with my attorney, he said feds would not waste any moment of time going after a case like that.

As far as state laws, he said very few DAs would even prosecute, no judge would give jail time. Misdemeanor at the most that would go on record

So yes, VARs can be technically illegal, but very unlikely to result in jail time.

I wouldn't worry about computer laws at all unless it's a company phone or computer.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

1. Not when Im paying for the phone in my name
2. I couldnt care less.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

It took me three anxious months until I started snooping; five months before I got to use voice recorders. Not due to the law (although there are strict privacy laws were I live), but because it wasn't my idea of marriage. Now, I only wish I'd done it sooner.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

FryFish said:


> lol @ the OP's claim of actually ARRESTING people for this... Doc Cool.


My thoughts exactly!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Affaircare's post is unbelievably awesome. Thanks for the thorough, thoughful, informative post. Wow.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

There is one exception I can think of where I’d have reservations. Hacking or snooping on your spouse’s company server. You could get in serious trouble for that. Like my wife works for the bank.

Other than that, it’s the kind of illegal that comes with breaking the speed limit. Yes, you are breaking the law... No, no one is going to seriously judge you over it and the court will slap your hand.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Even in places where it is illegal, there is still the requirement for the DA to file charges which takes time and money and DAs have a lot higher priority cases to spend their time and money on , especially if it means getting involved in the middle of the divorce of a cheater.

The MI case was brought by a someone trying to draw attention to themself, and it ended up going no where.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Even in places where it is illegal, there is still the requirement for the DA to file charges which takes time and money and DAs have a lot higher priority cases to spend their time and money on , especially if it means getting involved in the middle of the divorce of a cheater.
> 
> The MI case was brought by a someone trying to draw attention to themself, and it ended up going no where.


Still a big thanks to CopingWithIt for the heads up


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I would have LOVED for my WS to have charged me for reading his emails!!! PERFECT way to expose what he was up to, to everyone he works with, his friends, family, and the general public. That would have worked almost as well as the billboard I was tempted to take out.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Not sure what things are like in the US but here in La Belle Province, just try and get a cop to charge someone for snooping, especially your spouse, you'd be laughed at...and probably charged yourself for wasting police time/effort.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> I refrain from posting my story since it really is like many of the others here.


Oh, go on, Coping. It might help not only you but others to get your story out here on TAM. Share it with us, please?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

AC,
As always a great post. 

For those of you who are risk averse:
- If you are currently living WITH your spouse/common law, they do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy 
- If you know your spouse to be a difficult person, bust them without providing the actual hard evidence. Sorry but you are not obligated to share email printouts, or play recordings. 

When you say "I know you had sex with Jane Smith on Tuesday at 1 PM" they won't lie about it. Or if they do, you have a whole different issue. 

Technically there are situations where this is illegal. If you don't disclose how you got the info, and just use it to stop an affair or decide to divorce, your risks are VERY low. 

The one case sited happens to be a situation where the guy was super aggressive about using the data he gathered and the DA is oddly aggressive on this topic. 





Affaircare said:


> I know that usually people here do suggest the VARs or the keyloggers, but there are a couple of things to keep in mind that make the difference between what you are saying and what is being suggested.
> 
> First things first. Here is a link to all of the Electronic Surveillance Laws, by state. Before anyone does ANYTHING you really do need to read the laws for your state.
> 
> ...


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## Copingwithit (Nov 8, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> I suppose you have also arrested parents for eavesdropping on their 18 y/o children suspected of doing drugs.


Come on is that really called for ? 



fishfry said:


> lol @ the OP's claim of actually ARRESTING people for this... Doc Cool.


I don't get this ? 
Do you think I'm just here making up stories to flame my own ego ?

Was trying to look out for others in my shoes, thats all. But I get it. 

TC all


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Even if information is gained through recording someone without their knowledge, can it not be used without divulging where the information came from? No way in hell I'd admit to recording a wayward. I'd just simply tell them that I know exactly what they're doing with some well thrown 'darts'. Enough to get them shaking in their boots to fess up the rest. It's hard for people to continue lying when they start to realize they've been caught.


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## FryFish (Sep 18, 2012)

> I don't get this ?


yes, you do.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

No one's getting arrested, not even if you uncover evidence of illegal activity. all you can do is pitch it to prosecutor who may or may not run with it. No one's arresting you for spying on your wife unless you hire someone to physically intimidate them or have someone break into their office or their car. 

Come on, real world here. Adulterers don't go to jail.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

...if they DID there'd be a whole lot less of them!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Devices owned by ws's employer may have higher risk. If WS has medical info which is protected by law (or atty client info, etc), it could bring other factors to the mix. A VAR which illegally records a convo with OM isn't likely to cause BS legal harm, but recording a convo where protected info is discussed cpuld be a big problem.

Under plain vanilla circumstances I don't see risk in secretly snooping. Don't reveal sources when confronting. Don't blackmail using illegally gathered data.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

There is nothing unlawful about putting spyware on any device that is community property - even if classified "his" or hers".

Also most of the snooping recommended here is to verify suspicions and find the truth. Not to be used in a court of law. 

You might end up getting a fine or at the most have a misdemeanor on your record. A speeding ticket is a misdemeanor.


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

legal or not a BS will do it. The possibility of a misdemeanor pales in comparison ,to the pain of an affair.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Copingwithit: I think we all understand what you are trying to say and give us the professional insight you have of these matters. I won't speak for everyone, but I will speak for myself. When it came to the time that I had to protect my wife from making a big mistake, the last thing on my mind was the law. Bluntly put, I didn't give a fvck. I hacked her e-mail, blocked e-mail addresses, snooped on the phone, printed personal e-mails and then deleted them. She was upset, she could have called a cop but I didn't give a sh1t. My only goal was seeing to it that she was not able to ever contact this guy again (unless I could see everything). In the end, I succeeded; and that would have been worth some jail time to me. Now I didn't graduate to VARs or some of the other items, but I would have had no qualms in doing so if I felt I had to.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

snap said:


> The case was dismissed.
> 
> Rochester Hills man is cleared of snooping on wife's e-mail; she snooped on him too | Oakland County | Detroit Free Press | freep.com


Thanks for providing this update.

The upside of this case is that a bunch of prosecutors were watching. The takeaway is that even fewer than before will ever bother.

I find it ironic that they dismissed the charges because she was doing the same to him. What? Since when do two wrongs make a right? :rofl: Just shows how silly the case was to begin with.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Work equipment is a different matter. Any number of state and Federal laws apply to that. Or worse. 

And don't muck with any computer that's part of any Federal agency or military branch. Civilians in the US CAN be tried in a military court as an unlawful enemy combatant under the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and amended in 2009. It suspends the Geneva Conventions and Habeas Corpus.


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## cali_chick (Oct 18, 2012)

Reading Wife's Email Illegal? Man Faces Up To 5 Years - Search Engine Watch (#SEW)

Charges were dropped against the husband, but only because the wife admitted to snooping a few years earlier, by reading her husbands cell phone messages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cali_chick (Oct 18, 2012)

Never mind. Beaten to the punch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Regardless of legality, the whole concept of it is wrong to me. I could understand snooping, I get it, I would probably do that if I felt the need. But what I could not ever do is use the information I found outright against the spouse. I could use that information for myself, to know what I need to fix or address. But I got the information in a deceitful way, that makes me just as bad as them. So while I could use the information to try and help the situation, I would have no right to use it against them. 

At the same time, if those devices were used to snoop on the spouse and it was found out there was no affair, the other spouse now has no reason to ever trust the snooping one ever again.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I won't even read the posts responding.

Will state tho. 
Don't give a damn if its illegal if I'm being cheated on.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

gbrad said:


> Regardless of legality, the whole concept of it is wrong to me. I could understand snooping, I get it, I would probably do that if I felt the need. But what I could not ever do is use the information I found outright against the spouse. I could use that information for myself, to know what I need to fix or address. But I got the information in a deceitful way, that makes me just as bad as them. So while I could use the information to try and help the situation, I would have no right to use it against them.
> 
> At the same time, if those devices were used to snoop on the spouse and it was found out there was no affair, the other spouse now has no reason to ever trust the snooping one ever again.


This gets into the issue of transparency vs. privacy in marriage.
The problem is, that as things stand right now, technology has outstripped where our cultural norms are.
There wasn't any privacy back when people couldn't read or write.

Once writing evolved, the two primary things people tried to maintain privacy over were diaries and letters. Since letters were hand delivered, expectation of privacy was extremely low, and if you had a really secret message, you either used a trusted servant, or you stuck the message in a private "mailbox" like a hollow log so it wasn't intercepted. Because you had no real reason to express outrage that someone else was reading your mail.

With the advent of phones, initially they were one giant community party line with live operators and there was again, zero expectation of privacy. People would get mad that others listened in, but you just didn't tell secrets that way because your chance of keeping them was near zero. Then that changed, but people still often had party lines shared with other families, and then eventually extensions within the home where others could listen in. So wireline phones had little privacy (hence the use of payphones to talk to affair partners).

But now we have the ability to sit on a sofa next to our spouse, and text someone, even send photographs, to someone on the other side of the world, with real time communications, and the spouse is none the wiser. This sudden ability to communicate with anyone in the world with computer or phone, at will, even in crowds, but still in secret, just wasn't possible until very recently.

So, small wonder that most of us are in marriages where none of this was discussed...like, is it okay to friend your ex on facebook? Is it okay to send them private messages? Is it alright to text your cute coworker? A little? A lot? Because none of that was remotely possible technologically before. The old norms and attitudes about privacy cannot be made to fit this brand new universe.

I'm therefore fascinated by teens, who are exchanging all passwords and accounts as a sign of fidelity in their relationships. I think that's misguided, because it's often immediately abused upon breakup. But still: *show me someone who has a big expectation of privacy in email, facebook, and texting, and I'll show you someone who is NOT a digital native (they grew up before the digital era came to the fore).*

In a marriage, transparency makes sense. You're comingling every dime the two of you own and earn, but you aren't going to share accounts and passwords? That just seems, in retrospect, very odd. And if you can't trust your spouse with your email accounts or passwords, what does that say about your relationship? I mean, this person gets to pull the plug on you if an accident puts you on life support!!

Now, sharing accounts and passwords doesn't keep a cheater from cheating. But it does cut way back on this outrage that you see, where the cheating spouse gets all worked up about "snooping," with a sort of moral superiority that is really just a massive hypocritical distraction from the real immorality in the marriage.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Even if information is gained through recording someone without their knowledge, can it not be used without divulging where the information came from? No way in hell I'd admit to recording a wayward. I'd just simply tell them that I know exactly what they're doing with some well thrown 'darts'. Enough to get them shaking in their boots to fess up the rest. It's hard for people to continue lying when they start to realize they've been caught.


This is a good tact from you and others who have mentioned. There is no need to reveal where all the details came from. Just giving the details is enough. 

In my case, a lot of people knew about the affair, and I think that is true of most affairs. So my wife found out without needing to snoop. Most DAs already know that affairs are difficult to keep secret for long.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You have to weigh the pros and cons with using the tools available to you to save yourself and your family. A judge recently said court has nothing to do with justice, it is just about the law.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

chapparal said:


> You have to weigh the pros and cons with using the tools available to you to save yourself and your family. A judge recently said court has nothing to do with justice, it is just about the law.


That's true. Even though, my wife took me too the cleaners in the divorce, and ya' know I am okay with that. I deserved it. My wife had nothing to do with my compulsion to have extramarital sex. 

The laws about high tech snooping are changing rapidly, so yep, it's good advice to check the state or local laws before admitting to snooping.


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## Baffled01 (Mar 14, 2012)

"I can personally tell you, I have arrested people for reading there ex-wives email, ex-girlfriends email ( oddly enough it seems like women are usually the victims ). Putting spyware on a computer and phones. "

You must be in branch of law enforcement that specializes in pettyness.

Yes, technically some of these things are illegal in some states but I have yet to hear of someone going to jail for it.

As for 'one party state', I just discussed this issue with my attorney
because it is a little confusing. It means one party must be present when recording a conversation, but does not stipulate that party must be participating in the conversation. From this standpoint, I could be hiding and recording a conversation between my wife and her bf with a cell phone and it would be legal but if I were to hide a VAR and record it without me present. Technically, it would be illegal. May be different where you live.


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## Baffled01 (Mar 14, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> This is a good tact from you and others who have mentioned. There is no need to reveal where all the details came from. Just giving the details is enough.
> 
> In my case, a lot of people knew about the affair, and I think that is true of most affairs. So my wife found out without needing to snoop. Most DAs already know that affairs are difficult to keep secret for long.


Right, be on the safe side, just say,"someone overheard" or "a little bird told me."


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Baffled01 said:


> As for 'one party state', I just discussed this issue with my attorney
> because it is a little confusing. It means one party must be present when recording a conversation, but does not stipulate that party must be participating in the conversation. From this standpoint, I could be hiding and recording a conversation between my wife and her bf with a cell phone and it would be legal but if I were to hide a VAR and record it without me present. Technically, it would be illegal. May be different where you live.


Another thing which become case law in my state two weeks before my temporary trial is the doctrine of vicarious consent, where you can record a conversation that a minor is party to if you are the guardian and have reason to believe it is in the minor's best interest. That one is important because it makes the recordings admissible, as in my case. Any recording where my children were present are admissible in my case, including her discussions on who she slept with, going out drinking, phone calls to men, etc.

Talk to a lawyer first if you plan on going that route, you need good cause.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

Have a pair of balls and do what you need to do, regardless if its technically breaking the law. Are you robbing a bank or touching a kid Inappropriately? No, you're doing some preventive maintenance or confirming your suspicions.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

40isthenew20 said:


> Have a pair of balls and do what you need to do, regardless if its technically breaking the law. Are you robbing a bank or touching a kid Inappropriately? No, you're doing some preventive maintenance or confirming your suspicions.


What happens when you do those things and your suspicions end up being wrong? How do you address the damage that you have done?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Copingwithit said:


> *You usually have around 20 seconds or so to determine if can listen to the call.* ALL CALLS are recorded as is the termination. So if someone spot checks the logs and then hears you listened in on a call regarding the Drug Dealer and his mom going to dinner and not about drugs your in a mess of trouble and just lost your wiretap.


What? Now I have been out of circulation for over a decade, but what jurisdiction is this? NY state? Got a cite? In olden times, the tape would roll from pickup to hangup. How else are you going to do a transcript?

I call BS.

ETA: as for the gist of the original post, in the USA, everything worth doing or needing to be done is illegal. Look for a book called "Three Felonies a Day" about the number of crimes committed by the average small business owner.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

"One party" states are where one person (which can be you) must consent to the conversation being recorded. "Two party" states, all parties involved in the convo must give consent.

If you need to get a STBX on tape to prove a case in court, there is a way around this. Public place. Conversations in public places where there is no expectation of privacy, in many places, do not fall under this. Get the bitter, crazy, vindictive ex out to dinner or coffee in a public place, and record what they say. You should, usually, be goog to go.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

donny64 said:


> "One party" states are where one person (which can be you) must consent to the conversation being recorded. "Two party" states, all parties involved in the convo must give consent.
> 
> If you need to get a STBX on tape to prove a case in court, there is a way around this. Public place. Conversations in public places where there is no expectation of privacy, in many places, do not fall under this. Get the bitter, crazy, vindictive ex out to dinner or coffee in a public place, and record what they say. You should, usually, be goog to go.


The quoted part of OP's comment was in relation to what law enforcement can do with a court ordered wiretap, not in relation to private party taping.

Also, anybody in LE knows about the grand jury. Can you imagine a grand jury returning a true bill on a spousal adultery case? Even if a prosecutor tried to indict, he's gotta get by that.


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