# Another marrige falling apart



## 13yrs3kids

So here we go...

Been married for 13yrs now and we have 3 very young children together. So in the beginning of the month something didn't seem right and my wife seemed very angry. I noticed her constantly checking her phone all the time and she would be going to the bathroom and spending longer then normal time in there. 
I started spying on her because of my observations and noticed she was emailing an ex-employee (man) and they were talking about school and (she is taking a classes once a week). The emails seemed a bit to personal for my taste. I know they had planned to meet for lunch and they had meet before. OK so i asked her why she was so angry with me and she said she didn't want to get into it at the moment. I waited a while and brought it up again and then she let me have it. She said for last 8 yrs she had no feelings for me. 
I had neglected her for a long time not knowing I was doing so. I spent most of my free time in front of the computer playing games and stuff. hardly helped with the kids. I told her I could change and she said fine change but do it for the kids not for me there is nothing there and she is just full of all this anger. she was sorry she never brought up the issues before. I'm so angry myself that she is not giving me a chance. 
I don't want this for my kids they are so young. I never thought this would happen to us I honestly never saw the issues I know things weren't perfect but i never knew they were so bad. So eventually i brought up the subject of her and the other guy. she was very angry I was spying, but insisted that there was nothing going on and that they were just friends and he had been helping her with school and her resume. She wound up getting a new phone because of my snooping. 
So if she wants out and I'm not ready what are the options I really do love her. one part of me says its over she is starting to move on with this guy. The other part of me says wow 13yrs there has to be something there. We are still living together for the moment and I'm not sure what she expects going forward there has been no mention of divorce so I'm in limbo we agreed it would be best for me stay around for the kids at this point. we will be going to see a counselor next week but i feel i forced to go with me she has plans to go on her own as well to deal with her anger issues.
BTW I have been thinking of contacting the OM but she had asked me to keep him out of it. I had promised I wouldn't get in touch with him and I don't want to break my promise but I really feel I need to get in the middle of them. I don't know exactly what he knows I'm sure he knows a lot.

So I need some advice...its so hard to think positive under my circumstances


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## Scannerguard

I am not sure where she gets this entitleistic mindset that she's entitled to have this "friend" but she's not entitled to anything. Let's face it - women are more often Democratic (entitleistic) and men are Republican (non-entitleistic). This isn't some gender biased declaration here - it's a known registered voter fact and therefore it demonstrates an underlying philosophy of the genders IMHO.

Frankly, I could summarize the end of my marriage being a Republican (me) marrying a Democrat. All I heard what was she was entitled to and it drove me crazy frankly.

This has been sort of an interesting "legal" issue in my ending marriage.

On a court motion, she said I read her emails and implied a violation of privacy.

If I did. . .so what? Aren't we a partnership? Why is my wife *entitled* to any privacy? It would be interesting to hear legal pundits debate how far the right to privacy is. What if she is fooling around with someone with Herpes? Don't I have a right to know that as a maritial partner?

Don't you?

To Hades with her right to privacy! SHe wants privacy - get a divorce or don't get married. That's what a partnership is - full disclosure.

If I have a business partner, I don't hide any aspect of the business to him or I am liable.

This isn't probably helpful advice. . .just some musings on your/my situation.

Her "new man" isn't her territory is my advice. You sound like me a bit - former beta male. You'll need to convert into alpha male a bit not so much for saving the marriage but for your own sake.

Good luck.


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## Amplexor

13yrs3kids said:


> BTW I have been thinking of contacting the OM but she had asked me to keep him out of it. I had promised I wouldn't get in touch with him and I don't want to break my promise but I really feel I need to get in the middle of them. I don't know exactly what he knows I'm sure he knows a lot.


Whether she is willing to admit it or not, he is a part of this. While the marriage may have been troubled your years he is likely the catalyst for her anger and resentment to wards you. She is likely in an emotional affair with him and at some point, for the marriage to improve, she will need to break all contact with him. When you play that card is up to you. IT took me a long time to realize it had to be done and only when I did it did my marriage start to turn around. 

Start with the counseling, it might help but be aware a lot of old baggage is will come out of it but the counselor needs to understand what the elements of the problems are. You wife has told you she hasn't been happy in a long time, this will not turn around quickly. Both you you will need to make changes and sacrifices to pull this out. Counseling is a good start.


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## cantletgo

Well, I can tell you that I know how you feel, I'm about to be separating from my husband, we've been together 10 years and 2 kids. We too had our problems but I didn't know things were so bad and was totally blind sided when he confessed that he no longer loved me back in January. Then I found out about his affair. We were in limbo for a while, neither of us knowing which way to go. It was hard for me, and still is, to accept that after all we've been through he could just be done. Or that he could betray me so badly.

My advice would be to go to counseling, even if you think you are forcing her, if she's willing to go, don't question the motivation. Try to keep communication open, find out where she's at as far as wanting to work things out. If she does want to stay married and try to repair your relationship, then she needs to be completely transparent with you. No hiding phone calls or texts. Sure she shouldn't feel persecuted, but if she has nothing to hide then it shouldn't be a big deal. The best thing to do is get it all out on the table. Although my H and I are separating, over the last few months we have gotten out all our hurts, disappointments, mistakes, etc. We know where we went wrong, together and individually. So if we ever do reconcile, we know what not to do.

As far as contacting the OM, I wouldn't. I know how you feel, believe me, but nothing good can come of it. I would love to know how someone could be with a person they know is married, unhappily married or not. I would also love to take my anger out on her face. Not productive.

If she does want out your only option is to let her go. I have had to come to terms with that and it's taken me months. I'm still not completely ok with it, but I have no choice. I can't force him to stay when he doesn't want to, and can't make him love me. All I can hope for is that time and space will make him realize what he is throwing away.

But like Scanner said, you need to work on you, getting yourself right. Talking about it here helps, but if you're like me, sitting around the house, crying, feeling paralyzed, looking at your spouse and wondering who the hell they are, is not going to help. You have to get out, a hobby, friends, doing things with your kids, and just try to find some peace and happiness somewhere. Hope all works out for you.


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## 13yrs3kids

Hey thanks for the post people! There is some comfort knowing i'm not the only one going or been through such hard times. As far as her and the OM she insist that hi is just a friend and seems, I really want to believe her, she had mentioned before that there seems to be some chemistry between them but that's it. Its a very difficult subject to bring up because it just makes her more angry and feel i don't trust her. I can't say i fully trust her. And if it is just a friendship she is still hiding it to some degree, I mean she has told me she will continue to keep in touch with him. It just hurts to see some of their conversations they maybe nothing but the  and  faces and just playfulness hurts. also the sharing of music and stuff hurt as well. I made a promise not to call him but its very hard


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## Amplexor

13yrs3kids said:


> As far as her and the OM she insist that hi is just a friend


It is very possible she is not being truthful with you or is in denial. My wife was in self denial about her EA for months. It took ending the relationship for her to realize it was much deeper. This "friendship" should be part of your discussions with the counselor but there will be many other issues to discuss too. More than likely your wife has emotionally disconnected from you and has developed some kind of bond with TOM. I would suggest you try and spend more time with her for now, but don't dote on her. Spend more time with your kids as a family and see what direction the counselor takes you. Remain calm with her and show as much confidence as you can.


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## turnera

Here is what you do. You install a keylogger on her computer. You see if you can get access to the records on her new phone (depends on how she set it up). You gather evidence of the cheating. Once you have it, you sit her down and tell her you want her to stop the affair; if you want to talk to him, too, fine - you have the RIGHT to fight the affair, no matter what you promised her. If she refuses to stop, then you sit down and call her parents, her siblings, and her best friends (and your pastor if you have one), and you tell them what happened, admit your faults, and ask them for help letting her know it's inappropriate (if that's what they believe); whether they do or not is not as important as the fact that she knows that they all know now - and her 'fantasy' of her new life with this guy is just a fantasy and will never fly with her family and friends. At the same time, you also call the OM's wife, his parents, and siblings, and do the same thing.

Then you sit back and wait to see if it implodes - 50/50 chance of that. 

Meanwhile, you need to do some hard thinking on what YOU did wrong, and FIX it! Every waking moment right now should be about you being the husband she always wanted. SHOW her that you CAN be what she wanted. 

Once you do that, let us know what happens.


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## Amplexor

turnera said:


> Then you sit back and wait to see if it implodes - 50/50 chance of that.


I have always been pretty cautious of exposure as a tactic, however at times it is needed. As Turnera says, gather evidence and make sure you are on very solid ground before doing it. It is the nuclear option and while there is a 50% chance it may work, there is a 50% chance it will blow up in your face. If you decide to do it be ready to take the fallout if it fails and what your next steps might be if she walks out the door because of it. 

In our case I never used it but it was available to me. In hind sight if I had used it I believe we would have crashed and burned at that moment due to the circumstances of the EA. 

Think it through and if you decide there is a chance it will help do it from a logical aspect not out of anger or revenge. 

Good luck!!


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## turnera

Based on data from other sites, it has much better than a 50% chance of ending the affair. Does it bring you two together? Not necessarily. But it does more often end the affair.

It is NOT done for anger or revenge. It is to point out to two people fogged over by the addiction of the chemicals the affair is pushing through their brains (that's assuming the guy isn't just looking for free and easy sex), that what they are doing is a FANTASY and that most people will NOT accept them as a couple, considering they destroyed a family to be together. I like to say it points out to the wife that she will NOT get to bring the new guy home for Thanksgiving Dinner.

Which makes her rethink what she is doing.

Will she be mad? Most likely. Will she get over it, once she realizes she CAN come home and be a family again and everyone will accept her if she does? Most likely.


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## 13yrs3kids

Ladies and Guys once again, thanks for the post. I know I mentioned TOM in my situation, I had already gathered information and had brought it up to her and her parents. Her parents are kinda split on the situation, her father thinks like me no matter if she is not interested in forming a relationship with TOM or not I believe all men will ultimately want something back for their time and effort. Her mother on the other hand blames me for sending her into another mans arms. My wife insists that they are just friends and she is not looking for anything else at this time. I believe her I sincerely do believe her but regardless I think it is not right its like drop by drop a cup is being filled and their relationship will grow. I have told her that regardless of what the relationship is it hurt me to see the emails and msgs i saw even if they were not confessing their love for each other. I'm going to continue to do what i have to and try to put this in the back of my mind. My father told me something the other day and that was if I asked everyone in the world what to do 50% would say to contact him and 50% would say not to its up to me and I want to keep my promise to her that I would not contact him.. its not easy that's for sure and maybe I will change my mind later. I could probably destroy this guys life if I really wanted to. I'm very anxious about our first counseling session which is coming up in a few days. She has many of her own issues to deal with her anger and finding herself I don't think she has time for another man at this point. Again trying to be positive


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## Amplexor

13yrs3kids said:


> I'm very anxious about our first counseling session which is coming up in a few days.


Don't fear the counseling. It is there to help, hopefully you will get a good one but don't expect huge improvements. It will take time and it can be rough at times. But it can be a valuable part of recovering the marriage. Good luck.


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## turnera

She has destroyed your trust. She does not deserve your promise. 

Go to marriagebuilders.com and post there in Infidelity, and see what they tell you. They have a lot of expertise in this area.


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## 13yrs3kids

Well this past weekend was amazing we spent together with the kids and both agree it was very good. and last night was our first session together and I feel it went really well. I now feel there is still some hope left and I believe I'm on the right path to making things work. I'm not focusing on TOM at this point. Its sill a bit of an issue and was brought up in the session but I feel I need to just turn my back on it for the moment. I know some of you feel its best to put a stop to it but I know the out come will be better if she puts an end to it on her own because she no longer needs that crutch. I'm super positive at the moment. As I said before I really believe her and am putting my faith in her. I hope things continue to get better.


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## turnera

If you want to affair-proof the marriage, go to marriagebuilders.com and print out two copies of the Love Buster questionnaire. Both of you fill it out and swap, so you can see what YOU do that bothers her. Then you make a concerted effort to stop all those LBs! It doesn't matter how many flowers you buy or dates you take her on, if you are still doing things that make her unhappy. You have to remove the negative first, and then add to the positive. It could be anything, from leaving off the toothpaste cap, to planning vacations without her input. Read what she says, and change your habits til you no longer LB her.

Once you've done that for a couple months (and hopefully she is doing the same), print out the Emotional Needs questionnaire. In it, you will tell her what your top 5 ENs are, which SHE should be filling. And vice versa. Once you know her top 5 ENs, make sure YOU are meeting them - then she'll have no reason to have a male friend who is meeting them instead of you.


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## turnera

Are you able to see her calls and texts on her new phone?


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## Amplexor

13yrs3kids said:


> Its sill a bit of an issue and was brought up in the session but I feel I need to just turn my back on it for the moment. I know some of you feel its best to put a stop to it but I know the out come will be better if she puts an end to it on her own because she no longer needs that crutch. I'm super positive at the moment. As I said before I really believe her and am putting my faith in her. I hope things continue to get better.


Yes the EA will have to end at some point but you are in the best position to determine when that might be. It took some time before my wife really understood what it was. (I'm sure I was in denial about it myself.) Once that happened she better understood that it was a threat to the marriage. Though she tried to end it, he wouldn't let it go and in the end an ultimatum was delivered that I was ready, willing and able to leave the marriage over this issue. Once contact broke and after a little grieving the marriage began to improve at a much faster rate. While things may be going well for the two of you now, he will have to be out of the picture to fully recover. I understand your wish to not "rock the boat" on this issue but at some time you will need to address it or you'll find the progress losing traction. I think it's prudent for you to want to take some time to find your bearings and get your arms around the whole situation but you can't keep your head buried in the sand on the EA forever. Glad to here things are looking a little better for you this week. Continued success to you both.


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## turnera

And don't forget two things:

EAs VERY often progress into PAs so the longer you wait to address it, the more likely they will end up sleeping together.

Even though people in EAs may PLAN to stop contact, they often go through 2 or 5 or 10 'reconnections' because the high they get off of each other is too strong to resist - thus the need to keep monitoring her access to him, no matter what she SAYS she wants.


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## 13yrs3kids

turnera said:


> Are you able to see her calls and texts on her new phone?


 up to yesterday I was. and potentially can if i want which I'm not sure what i will do..because it is a huge risk if she knows that I'm doing it and I feel all will be lost and don't think its worth it right now. Of course I'm very curious...


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## turnera

13, you have GOT to stop acting out of fear. It is the WORST enemy to your marriage.


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## D8zed

Wow....13yrs, you may want to stop by nomoremrniceguy.com/forums for a visit. You will get lots of feedback on your and your wife's actions.


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## 13yrs3kids

Well Things have been continuing to go for the most part and she seem interested in giving the marriage another chance but I know she has been still in contact with TOM. Anyway last night I let her have it I told her regardless how innocent her friendship i couldn't stop thinking about it and it was making me crazy. 

I told I want her to stop contact all together. And I want some for of proof so I asked that we contact him together. I told her if he was such a nice guy and good friend then he would understand. I also let her know that if she did not want to cut off contact that I would not stay around. She said she couldn't call him last night because things were a bit crazy. Also she agreed but didn't show any emotion not anger just saying fine if that's what you want then fine. I guess that is to be expected. 

I'm very anxious right now and expecting that she will be contacting him solo at some point during the day to give him some kind of a heads up but ultimately if she does contact with me and they agree to cut off contact and I find out otherwise I am gone. I feel i did the right thing because I could not function knowing they are still in contact.

I hope this will pass and we can continue to make some kind of progress.


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## turnera

So did you call him?


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## 13yrs3kids

Not yet.. there was too much stuff going on with the kids and such and tonight will not be any better...


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## 13yrs3kids

Do I let her do all or most the talking? or just play by ear?


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## turnera

If your wife was hooked on cocaine, and you called the dealer together, would you let your wife tell him to leave her alone?


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## 13yrs3kids

Point taken


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## turnera

While you're waing to do this, why not go to No More Mr. Nice Guy and read up on how you SHOULD be handling your marriage. Women hate weak men. They admire strong men. Learn to be strong, or you'll lose your marriage.

fwiw, I don't recommend calling the guy at all. What Marriage Builders recommends is that she write a LETTER, that YOU read and mail FOR her, in which she says "Please never contact me again. My marriage and my family are too important for me to ever jeopardize it again by contact with you."

It's a psychological hurdle, more so than a phone call, which you cannot control.

If she's not willing to do the letter, she is still seeing him and lying to you.


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## 13yrs3kids

My sister suggested I have her email him and cc me. And have her do this in front of me? So the options are call together, send email or write an actual letter on paper... any comments?


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## turnera

Your wife should NOT be doing it on her own. If she's still connected to him, she will make it a love letter, like Wuthering Heights or something.

If you are with her when she writes it, that may be ok, as you can have her adjust it to remove any love talk before she hits send. I don't prefer it, though, because electronic messages can be altered; you never know how things are going to be used in the future.

The OM doesn't have to know you know. All he has to know is she is calling it off.


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## 13yrs3kids

It seems like she already mentioned something to him yesterday so.. Not sure if that makes a difference. Also if she wants to hide stuff from me she can do it using stuff from work she recently started an new job (he helped her get, helped with resume and what not) Any way my monitoring of her and him is very limited at this point. So once she tells him if front of me to stop contacting what do i do if I see otherwise? without blowing my last way of spying??


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## turnera

If she has agreed to stop seeing him, she still needs to send the letter for psychological reasons. It's a tangible affirmation to YOU that she is cutting off contact; therefore, if she continues to cheat, she is deliberately harming you. Big stuff.

Along with that agreement, however, you should have required - and she should have agreed - that she provide you with the passwords to her computer places and her phone, so you can check it any time you want. Not that you will, all the time, more like a spot check. If she's unwilling to do this, then she is NOT remorseful and she is almost certainly lying to you and still cheating.

You should also require that she let you know where she is if she is not at work or with you.

And you should require that she agree to never go anywhere with another man.

If she's unwilling to see the necessity of these, then she's lying to you.


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## 13yrs3kids

She can do what ever she likes at work and i will be blind she can open new email accounts so she can always lie and hide it. I hope she wouldn't lie but I need a way to see if she does. The only thing i can really request is the pass code for her phone if she give me that then she may just stop using it to contact him at all via that phone.


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## turnera

Of course she can. You will never be able to control her. All you can do is tell her what YOUR boundaries are, and let her know that once you find out she has overstepped those boundaries, there will not be a second chance.

That said, you can also be working nonstop to improve your marriage so she has a _reason_ to honor her vows. It takes both of you to stay committed.


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## 13yrs3kids

OK so Say we contact TOM and tell him to never contact her again, and i find out that she does still keep in contact... what do i do next? Now keep in mind we are currently living in with her family in their house...She had said she wanted to move out with me to work on the marriage prior to me asking her to cut off all contact. Do we still pursuit that?


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## turnera

That depends on how much you want to keep your marriage. How many chances you'll give her. Waywards can slip a dozen times before they finally give up the OM.

Did you go to marriagebuilders.com? They have a step-by-step plan for how to get through this, as well as some excellent books, like Surviving An Affair.

Tanelorn has some great steps along the same path; look for some of his posts.


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## 13yrs3kids

where exactly on marriagebuilders.com should i look? I don't have the time to go through books to be honest with you I bought a couple this past month but hardly touch them because i have no time.


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## turnera

Look up surviving an affair or else infidelity.


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## 13yrs3kids

you mention about me asking for password that means she needs to get access to my accounts as well but my email has information about spying so i don't want to give that up...


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## turnera

So copy it and delete it.


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## cb45

geez....listen to her 13


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## 13yrs3kids

cb45 said:


> geez....listen to her 13


Can you please clarify???


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## turnera

If you give her access to your connections, as you require from her, you will just have to monitor yours very closely so that you don't tip your hand and reveal your snooping resources. 

And yes, you DO need to keep your snooping resources, once your spouse has cheated. THEY broke the rules; you're merely trying to get the fence repaired, and it is your duty to keep snooping, to help HER stay clean from her drug.


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## 13yrs3kids

So we had a talk last night and it didn't go well she told me that she spoke to him and she wasn't going to contact him anymore but she was not going to call him in front of me. So what do I do now I know she is lying as they spoke today. She was very angry last night as I expected. I kept telling her to coninue with the 6 months and see if we can at least be friends so she agreeed to that.. anyway not sure what to do no since she is lying do I contact him at this point? and keep in mind I don't want to get up my resources


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## turnera

She refuses to TELL him not to contact her?


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## 13yrs3kids

turnera said:


> She refuses to TELL him not to contact her?


NO, she said she told him she was going to stop contact with him. the point of us talking that night was her to do it in front of me. now i know she must have said something about it the day before because of their msgs. Bottom line is thats she is still talking with him after she told me she would not.


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## turnera

Then it is your JOB to (1) call her out on lying to you and demand that she stop contacting him and, if she refuses, (2) expose the affair and ask everyone to help you stop their affair.

You HAVE no marriage, 13. Not without you taking this stand. It does no good for you to be 'nicer' to her - not when she is addicted to an affair. She can't stop herself; she's addicted. Only YOU can stop it at this point, by exposing the affair and making it not so much fun any more. You've already lost her anyway. This is the only chance you have of saving your marriage.


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## 13yrs3kids

how do i call her out without exposing my sources? Right now she is just in this for the kids. She also said last night that she was very angry that she had to stop talking with him and that she knows that it would never go anywhere and that she had some feelings for but couldn't act on them because of the kids came first and she has said she would never bring another man home until the kids were out of the house. At one point she said she wanted to end it on her own terms not me making her not sure if that is just BS


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## turnera

Look. YOU have the control here. It doesn't seem like it, but you do.

YOU have the right to say to her "You either stop all communication with him or I'm divorcing you and fighting for full custody because of your infidelity. And I WILL bring OM in as a material witness, for the whole town to see. Unless you agree to stop ALL CONTACT with him and provide me ACCESS to your phone, your computer, and any other method of contact you use. I have PROOF that you are continuing to contact him and I WILL use it unless you agree to stop seeing him."

Print out the evidence you have, and store it safe somewhere outside the home where she can't destroy it. You don't need MORE evidence. The only reason you don't want to out your source is so you can keep checking to see if she's cheating. You know she IS. 

Therefore, your next step is to say 'You give me access so I can verify no contact, or you move out.'

Period.


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## 2Daughters

Look man..if she is an independant woman who can handle herself financially then you're at the 'mercy' of what she decides...we all want to believe there's hope but honestly she left you long ago...this EA is ingrained in her heart 'right now'..you'll have to take the chance of letting her go and see if she comes back..chances are you won't want her back because of how she told you she feels about you and why would you?..you both let your love and marriage slip away..sorry for being so blunt but it's the truth...you need to remake yourself for the kids and concentrate on being the best dad you can be and YOUR OWN BEST FRIEND..it sucks to face reality but it is what it is..she isn't going to all of a sudden stop being 'good friends' with the OM and start 'loving' you again...sorry but it's over for now and maybe forever..tell yourself I'm going to begin a new life without my wife and be better than before.


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## 13yrs3kids

I understand where you are coming from 2 daughters.. Its so confusing when I get some people telling me one thing and others telling me another. I am beyond confused


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## Amplexor

While I generally see exposure a trump card that can blow up in your face, if she is actively lying to you about the contact it is likely time to play it. Giving up your sources really doesn't have any value if you're not ready to confront her on it. Just be sure your proof is irrefutable. What 2daughters is referencing comes directly from the pages of Dobson's Love Must be Tough. It wold be a good idea to read it over the weekend and get ready to step up the ante. Good luck.


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## 13yrs3kids

Well I think I have reached my limits. Yesterday she met him for lunch and I also intercepted a msg between her and her sibling where they asked how her therapy was going. She said it was going well but her feelings for me haven't changed and she didn't feel they would. I also managed to capture about 30 mins of the lunch and from the sounds of it she is really into him so I don't see the point of sticking around. 

She will be traveling for the last week of the month and I plan on waiting for her to come back and I might take a trip after myself. Its strange how nice things seem to be going between us. But in the end I know I can't live like this I need to have some respect for myself. The hardest part of this is of course the kids. They are so young I feel like leaving will destroy their innocents. I hope that this will break her bubble but I'm not counting on it I imagine I'm just making things easier for her in the long run. 

Any words of wisdom? or what do I say it will also take me time to find a place and figure out how to balance my time visiting my kids.


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## Amplexor

13yrs3kids said:


> She said it was going well but her feelings for me haven't changed and she didn't feel they would. I .


And she wont if he's still in the picture. If you can't live with this kind of arrangement (and who would) then it's time to play the trump card. Fully expose the affair, expose the lies and tell her you are moving on because of it. Do it with self respect and confidence. There is a chance it will snap her out of the fog. If is doesn't, discuss how to tell the kids after the dust has settled a bit. Good luck.


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## turnera

Of course her feelings haven't changed. You haven't done anything to stop her affair.

Come on. You already admit your marriage may be over. At least if you go to her family and friends and tell them the truth you have a fighting chance to end the affair so she WILL change her feelings for her.

You're just going to walk away without even trying to expose the affair and stop it?


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## 13yrs3kids

I'm going to let her know that I know she is still talking to him and that she has no way to prove to me otherwise. my family knows about it, but they say it would be childish to go telling everyone whats going on. I look at it like I can't control her its been brought up to her parents before and she has lied to them as well I mean I can show them what info I have but there is also a bit of a language barrier. It just seems destructive. In my mind things will fall apart with their relationship and it might be better like that then getting involve. I know you guys mean but my mine is not in the best state at this point. continue to give me advise and help me find my balls to do what I must I'm currently trying to read love must be tough. at the end the way things are going by exposing things it couldn't get any worse.


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## 13yrs3kids

Also I want to run things my my therapist which my appt is next week. I truly am thankful for all your support. 2daughters post kinda opened my eyes to reality


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## turnera

The thing is, she is cheating because it FEELS GOOD (mentally). She's getting something from it. While she is, *you don't matter*.

She will NEVER care about you again, until OM is out of the picture.

So you have two choices: divorce her or fight the affair.

Go to marriagebuilders.com and read up about exposure and _why it works._ The founder there has spent 3 decades working with cheaters, and exposure is what he has discovered is the #1 way to get your marriage back. Don't just listen to me. Listen to him. 

He says it because _it works._

Exposure takes what's exciting, thrilling, uplifting into ****ty, disgusting, and embarrassing. You have to pick the people whose respect she craves. Tell THEM. Let HER know THEY know. Let her realize that everyone isn't just going to go along with this sea change and accept this bum into their lives.

Exposure takes their fun time and makes it slimy. NOT fun. Tortuous. And she'll start to wonder if it's worth it. She'll start to worry about her reputation. He'll start to look not so great.

And if you want to save your marriage, you will spend the money to get HIS contact information and tell HIS family.

I'm not trying to be mean; but you admit yourself you are too terrified to anger her. That's the way she likes it - that way she can do whatever the hell she wants.

But what are you achieving by being terrified? PAIN.


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## 13yrs3kids

Well from what I understand he is divorced, and bringing it to light in his office has the potential to have him fired. What I plan to do is tell her that I know she has been lying and is still in contact with him and meeting him. And I am leaving her untill she stops contact with him altogether. I will also let her parents know why I am leaving and that she has been lying to them as well. I just feel she won't put up any resistance to me leave and might actually make things easier on her as this is basically what she wants. I will also make it known that most of my family knows what she has been doing and they are very disappointed in her. What do you think of this plan?


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## turnera

Yeah, do that. Also think which people she would be most ashamed if they knew. Not necessarily her parents - best friends, a cousin?


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## 13yrs3kids

Waiting to do this is turning out to be very difficult, she is away for the rest of the month and then I go away for a few days. So I'm waiting for when I get back. The hardest part for me will be leaving my kids and not seeing them before they go to sleep and when they wake up. Also knowing how much hurt they will be going through. I feel like I'm combining to important steps.
1. Telling her I'm leaving because she will not stop contact
2. Exposing the EA or what ever it is. 
So should they be combined?


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## turnera

Here are the steps to stopping an affair:

Gather your evidence.

Confront your wife and ask her to stop seeing him. Do NOT get into an argument about whether she is cheating; you KNOW she is. You are merely telling her you cannot abide by it and she needs to stop.

If she refuses to stop, THEN you call her important people and HIS important people. You tell them that they are committing adultery (use the 'bad' word), and you are asking everyone for help to stop the affair so that you two can sort out your marriage without an outside influence. I forget if they work together; if so, you call THEIR BOSSES as WELL as HR and tell them that these employees are carrying on a workplace affair and they will want to look into it before they end up involved in a lawsuit. (the best scenario here is that bosses separate them, or fire HIM)

Meantime, do Plan A: be the best possible husband and father you can be, so that she has no reason to NOT like you; so she'll look at you and see what she's about to throw away. 

Continue putting pressure on her to stop the affair. Do NOT allow her to contact him while in YOUR house or in front of YOUR kids. If she has to drive to Walmart to contact him, that's her problem - but she WON'T do it under YOUR roof. Got it? This is going on after you have exposed. Hopefully, she'll get some calls from people, but don't depend on it. YOU continue to make the affair hard to keep up.

If she still refuses to leave him, go to your lawyer and file separation papers in which SHE LEAVES - not YOU! You tell her that you will file for separation if she does not stop seeing him, and you WILL sue on grounds of adultery (if that's legal in your state), and you WILL subpoena him as a material witness.

YOU did not choose to destroy the marriage, YOU do not leave your kids! If SHE wants to commit adultery, she can do it from somewhere else. Got it?

She NEEDS you to be strong here and fight for her. Not wimpy. Not nice. MAD. OFFENDED. AGHAST that she would do this to your family.

Your fear of angering her is your ONE WORST ENEMY. 

No matter what you do, DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME!


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## 13yrs3kids

Here are a few issues I did confront her and ask her to stop and I know she hasn't at this point. They used to work together and no longer do. We live under her families house so I can't kick her out I will have to leave. Do I really need to file for a separation? I'm ready to leave at this point.


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## turnera

Did you expose it to her parents, brothers, sisters, best friends, aunts, uncles, pastor? Did you call HIS family and tell them?


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## 13yrs3kids

I didn't have enough information at the time things seems to have been progressing, But I did mention it to her parents and her brother (however he says she should do what ever she wants, she is a grown woman) real nice guy huh? Anyway when her parents brought it up she said that he was just a friend and they only met once yada yada and she got pissed at them and me for telling them. I don't have the OM info and don't really think it matters.


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## turnera

Sure it doesn't matter, if you're ready to end your marriage. Your choice.


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## 13yrs3kids

So what do you suggest? I need to contact his office? Her family and my family are not enough? Do I contact him myself? I seem to be more following the advice of the book love must be tough.


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## 13yrs3kids

Another point I'd like to bring up is that she said she has been wanting to leave me for the last 8 years or so. So she has time to sit on this for a long time. I don't see much hope to be honest with you guys I mean I want nothing more then for my marriage to be saved. But if in her mind she is done, she is done.


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## turnera

I would go back to her parents and tell them that she is still cheating. I would tell her brother that you'd like to imagine how he'd feel if HIS wife was cheating on him. I would find all her best friends and tell them that she is cheating on you and you need their help to just get the OM out of the picture for now, to see if you can save the marriage; that's all. I would hire a PI to find out who the guy is, and get the PI to get you his personal info for his wife/exwife, parents, and siblings; and then call them.

Will she be mad? Of course. That's good. It means that she CARES what other people think of her, and that she KNOWS she's doing wroing. THAT is how you stop an affair. Not moving out.

fwiw, have you done any research, like the book Surviving an Affair? It will teach you that the wayward always rewrites history - tells herself that she was miserable for 8 years or whatever - that way, she HAD to find true love somewhere else, right? It's her brain covering up her guilt. Every wayward does it. Unless she told you 8 years ago she wanted to leave and you ignored her; and if so, you should just divorce.


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## 13yrs3kids

That was one of my biggest problems that she waited 8 years to speak up. Haven't read that book. Just Love must be tough which I feel helped see what I was doing wrong.

Next question when do I make contact with everyone before or after I speak with my wife?


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## turnera

My point is, how do you KNOW that she was unhappy for 8 years? Because she tells you NOW? That's why I wanted you to read that book - it describes how, the instant you fall into an affair, you 'rewrite history' so your subconscious can deal with your own treachery. "I HAD to find love elsewhere. Our marriage was a SHAM. I HATED my life, I just never wanted to hurt him with the truth." When, six months before the affair, it never occurred to her that she was even unhappy. Suddenly, once a guy shows interest, by god that's right! I DESERVE to be happy!

In other words, _ignore what she says_; she is living in a fog-filled world that helps her justify the affair; everything she says about you and how bad you are is just BS to let her keep seeing OM.

You sit her down and say I know you're cheating, and I'm asking you to stop.

If she refuses or denies, then go to everyone and tell them.


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## 13yrs3kids

I feel I gave her enough chance and need to take the next step at this point. which is telling everyone and leaving as I can't kick her out of her family's house. You said before do this if I want to end the marriage (I want my best chance to fix things) As the book (love must be tough) this is opening the Cage door.


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## Tanelornpete

I read through your thread, and it seems you are doing pretty well. It helps to take things in specific, ordered steps, just to make sure you cover everything before moving on to the next one -each one builds on the previous. Turnera gave a good guide in an earlier post.

Essentially, once you are positive an affair is going on, you let your spouse know, and request that it stop. Let them know you are there, and want to work on your marriage. 

If they refuse, its helpful to go to someone that they regard as wise counsel - a parent, pastor, etc. Let that person talk to them. If they still refuse (which seems to be happening here) the next step is to expose the affair to everyone who both is likely to suffer from the lies, and is pro-marriage - that is, who will be willing to give both of you counsel if you ask, and is at least in a position to sway some decisions your spouse makes.

Exposure, as pointed out above, is not vengeance, nor punishment. It is simply shedding some light on a hidden action that is affecting your marriage. Just as you might go to friends and family for help with getting a spouse who is addicted to drugs off the stuff, so you go to friends and family to help save a marriage.

You are not in control of the people to whom you do expose this - they can choose to be active or not - and the level of participation they may want to offer. The primary reason is not to elicit help (that's a nice side benefit) - it is to make it a lot harder for the affair to continue.

Affairs flourish best in the 'dark' - that is, when they are hidden and illicit. Part of the thrill is the excitement of hiding the thing. 

On top of this, people who are in an affair tend to twist reality to justify their actions. They want to make the affair (which is wrong) seem like it is instead a good thing. So, they make all kinds of statements like 'I've been unhappy for 8 years.' 

This is most likely a HUGE exaggeration. But there is also this to keep in mind: underneath the exaggeration is a kernel of truth -something that gives them the impetus to say such a thing in the first place. It would be REALLY hard for her to tell people with a straight face 'he's had a different woman in our bed every night for the past 48 years' - there MUST be a portion of truth mixed with the fantasy - that's what makes it believable.

So my advice is to listen to her for the time being, and keep all the things she says in a notebook - so that you can work on them LATER.

LATER because RIGHT NOW, _no_ work can be done on your marriage - until the affair ends. And this means she must end all contact - and prove to you that this is so. AND she must work through a period of withdrawal -during which you must be caring, understanding and pretty much non-judgmental, not matter what she says. It will pass. Keep in mind it's an addict overcoming an addiction.

Once that is over, you'll be able to work on the marriage.

So first step - end the affair. 

1) Gather evidence
2) Confront and ask that it end (no contact, etc.)
3) Disclose (to one person who is wise counsel)
4) Expose to pro-marriage people who might be affected - or to whom she might listen
5) ALWAYS be working Plan A
6) Plan B
7) Legal Separation.

----------------
Now playing: Ultraviolet State - [Jays]
via FoxyTunes


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## 13yrs3kids

So I have already asked her to stop in the past which she didn't "refuse", however she just continued to lie about it saying she did stop. So now I need to expose and wait? how long do I wait because its becoming unbearable at this point and as soon as I expose it I know she will hide all contact that she thinks I might have access to. And how is she to prove to me all contact has ended? I was expecting to expose and say its unacceptable and Say that while it continues I need to move out and if she wants to continue that contact she needs to make a choice, she can't have us both.


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## turnera

I would not move out unless it's just driving you crazy. Only you know that point. I would expose, today, to EVERYONE. If she's going to run you off, she doesn't need to be telling everyone that OM is her "new" boyfriend, when he's not. And she WILL do that. So tell everyone today. When she asks you why you did it, you tell her 'because you refused to stop committing adultery and I'm trying to save my marriage. The only way it can be saved is if you aren't seeing two men.' 

Just that.


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## Tanelornpete

So, does ANYONE besides you and she know what is going on? It seems obvious that she isn't going to stop because you asked her - it's time to let others know about the situation:

In particular, at least let the Other Man's wife know - (if she is married) - he deserves the truth.


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## 13yrs3kids

No she has been hiding it from everyone as far as I know. He is divorced... The kicker is that he works for a company that sells bibles... I am thinking of call him after I tell her I know she hasn't stopped and from her phone in front of her telling him that he must stop contact or there will be consequences (ie bringing it up at his job) But I don't know if that is too forceful. I mean it really has to be her decision to stop contact no? I am thinking to do this right before my trip. and if she is not willing to stop then I will move out and tell her to make a choice. I mean what do I have to lose at this point she is not working at all on the marriage. I'm just nervous about the moving out part as most people say once that happens the chance of resolution are slim to none


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## Affaircare

Two things, 13yrs3kids:

1) There really is no point in contacting the OM and telling him to stop or there will be consequences. That is a threat, and legally they can go to the police and tell them you are making threats, so that doesn't accomplish your goal. You goal is to end the affair, right? If you were to contact the OM you could tell him, "Hello this is (wife)'s husband and I wanted you to know that I know you two have been having an affair. I love my wife, we have been married for many years and have decades of happy memories together, and I wanted you to know I do intend to stand up for my marriage and my wife." THE END!! But in the end, you're right about one thing. If she's going to stop, YOUR WIFE has to be the one who wants to stop, and your threatening etc. will not be helpful. 

2) DO NOT MOVE OUT!!!!! No way Jose! You stay put in your home with your kids, safely in their rooms in their beds in their neighborhood. If your wife can't stand to carry on her affair at home, then SHE moves out, not you. In your home, NO AFFAIR ACTIVITIES take place. Period. She is free to continue--you can't stop her afterall--but if she wants to continue it is not in your home, and she is free to move all she wants...on her dime. I realize you say you live "under her family's house" and I don't know if that means you are living with your in-laws or it's just a house they own. Either way, you tell HER PARENTS that she is committing adultery, and that as the father of their grandchildren you will not accept unfaithfulness in the same house with your children. 

If and only if her parents/the owners of the house will not support you, then you and the kids all move. Leave her there cold. The idea is that you have your "family home" and that in the family home no infidelity is allowed. In this instance, you are the father and husband, and where you and the kids are is the family--make sense? Ideally, the house owners/parents would support you when you tell them that she's committing adultery and that you are working to end the affair ... but until it's over you won't tolerate adultery in the house. If not--if they won't stand up to her blatant unfaithfulness--then you may have to move you and the kids. 

I'll write more in a bit okay?


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## 13yrs3kids

we live with the in laws under the same tiny roof i don't know if they will kick her out and I can't afford to move out to a house with my kids


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## Tanelornpete

Unfortunately, you are the family. Your wife, as long as she is having an affair, has left it, leaving you and the kids as the core unit. 

Start right now looking for more cash. Get another job, start a separate savings account. You'll need the stability for your kids. Just because your wife left the family does not mean you must too. Things can be very tough for a while, but you can manage. 

You have to be there for your kids.


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## 13yrs3kids

She lives for the kids and I don't want her to dump this guy just because I'm going to take the kids from her its the same as forcing her I mean I can say I'm leaving and planing on taking the kids once I settle not sure if that works? Also I don't want this just to turn into a custody battle I want my family back. Is there any hope at this point? I'm having a very difficult time seeing any.


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## Affaircare

13yrs3kids~

I'm going to be a little tiny bit harsh with you so get ready. Are you ready? 

You ask if there's any hope at this point, and I would say maybe not, but probably not for the reasons you think. You see, we keep telling you things you could do that actually WOULD be steps to take to save your marriage, but rather than do them, you give us all the reasons why you can't. 

Well...how's that working for ya? 

Did you end the affair yet? Save your family? Repair your marriage? Rekindle the love? No?? So maybe, just maybe, your way doesn't work. If you continue to insist on doing it your way, you stand a very strong chance of losing your wife and kids. 

On the other hand I know for a fact that our way can work. Does it every time? No. Some disloyals spouse's are DETERMINED to do what they know is wrong and you can't stop them. But by the same token I've seen our way work. I know of people ON THIS FORUM who have ended the affair and saved their marriage!

So it's up to you. Do you REALLY want to save our marriage or give up? Because if you are serious, you may have to go against your instinct and allow someone else to help you. If you'll listen and do it, you may have hope--if not then I'd say there's not much hope.


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## 13yrs3kids

I plan to tell her parents and I will stay but how do I get her to stop the affair even if the parents are on board with me, I don't think they will kick her out. But she may just continue to hide things even more. So that leaves me to move out with the kids?

Ok on a side note...My brother-in-law mentioned a funny way of exposing the affair at the OM office.. get this send a singing telegram so the whole office knows.. I know its crazy and I don't think that is the best idea but it did make me laugh


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## voivod

13yrs3kids said:


> ok on a side note...my brother-in-law mentioned a funny way of exposing the affair at the om office.. Get this send a singing telegram so the whole office knows.. I know its crazy and i don't think that is the best idea but it did make me laugh


i love this!


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## Affaircare

Hey 13yrs3kids~

Do you remember this post? My comments are in red.



Tanelornpete said:


> I read through your thread, and it seems you are doing pretty well. It helps to take things in specific, ordered steps, just to make sure you cover everything before moving on to the next one -each one builds on the previous. ...
> 
> Essentially, once you are positive an affair is going on, you let your spouse know, and request that it stop. Let them know you are there, and want to work on your marriage. *I believe you are positive there is an affair and you have directly told your spouse you KNOW and asked her to stop...right? If not, that is the very first thing you do...today. You ask her to end all contact with the OM; Never, Ever contact him again; and give you access to all her online accounts: email, facebook, chats, EVERYTHING so you can verify she is not in contact. If you have not done this, start here!*
> 
> 
> If they refuse, its helpful to go to someone that they regard as wise counsel - a parent, pastor, etc. Let that person talk to them. *From what I can determine it doesn't sound like you've done this step yet. The idea with this step is to give her a chance to "do the right thing" with the minimum of people knowing, and for one person she admires/looks up to/thinks of highly to look her in the eyes and say "(Wife) I know about the adultery and I raised you better than this--what are you doing? Being Unfaithful is wrong. Stop the affair and do the right thing." It really motivate a disloyal to end their affair when someone they look up to KNOWS about this thing they've been trying to keep secret and thinks less of them because of it. If you HAVE directly asked her to stop and you have not done this step...start here! It sounds to me like her parents may be a very good choice because she would stand to lose not only her parent's "support" but they have control of the housing situation! Very effective bargaining tools! And they do not necessarily need to "kick her out" but they can put their foot down and say "We gave you this house to live in with your husband and children, not to drag some lover into! You will not carry on activities like that in our house!" *
> 
> If they still refuse (which seems to be happening here) the next step is to expose the affair to everyone who both is likely to suffer from the lies, and is pro-marriage - that is, who will be willing to give both of you counsel if you ask, and is at least in a position to sway some decisions your spouse makes. *If you have already spoken to her directly and disclosed to one or two people she trusts and thinks of as wise counsel--then you would expose. I'm not positive you are at this step yet because I have not heard of disclosing to someone she thinks of highly...but if you have, you would start here. *
> 
> Exposure, as pointed out above, is not vengeance, nor punishment. It is simply shedding some light on a hidden action that is affecting your marriage. Just as you might go to friends and family for help with getting a spouse who is addicted to drugs off the stuff, so you go to friends and family to help save a marriage.
> 
> You are not in control of the people to whom you do expose this - they can choose to be active or not - and the level of participation they may want to offer. The primary reason is not to elicit help (that's a nice side benefit) - it is to make it a lot harder for the affair to continue. *Some examples of people to expose to (you don't expose to ALL these people, but to folks who will be pro-marriage and/or who will be there to offer you encouragement): Your parents; Her parents; Your pastor, priest, rabbii or religious leader; Your siblings: Her siblings; close aunts, uncles or cousins: Your friends from work; Her friends from work: Your employer (to explain why you might be off on productivity a little); Her employer; Your lifelong best friends; Her pro-marriage lifelong best friends; Friends at church or shul, etc.; the Other Man's Wife. *
> 
> Affairs flourish best in the 'dark' - that is, when they are hidden and illicit. Part of the thrill is the excitement of hiding the thing.
> 
> On top of this, people who are in an affair tend to twist reality to justify their actions. They want to make the affair (which is wrong) seem like it is instead a good thing. So, they make all kinds of statements like 'I've been unhappy for 8 years.'
> 
> This is most likely a HUGE exaggeration. But there is also this to keep in mind: underneath the exaggeration is a kernel of truth -something that gives them the impetus to say such a thing in the first place. It would be REALLY hard for her to tell people with a straight face 'he's had a different woman in our bed every night for the past 48 years' - there MUST be a portion of truth mixed with the fantasy - that's what makes it believable.
> 
> So my advice is to listen to her for the time being, and *keep all the things she says in a notebook - so that you can work on them LATER.* *Are you doing this? If not, buy a notebook TODAY. You can do this but it takes some work on your part!*
> 
> LATER because RIGHT NOW, _no_ work can be done on your marriage - until the affair ends. And this means she must end all contact - and prove to you that this is so. AND she must work through a period of withdrawal -during which you must be caring, understanding and pretty much non-judgmental, not matter what she says. It will pass. Keep in mind it's an addict overcoming an addiction.
> 
> Once that is over, you'll be able to work on the marriage.
> 
> So first step - end the affair *(by taking these steps IN ORDER)*:
> 
> *1) Gather evidence--I think you've done this step.
> 2) Confront and ask that it end (no contact, etc.)--Have you done this step? If not, start here. Ask her to do the right thing and stop.
> 3) Disclose (to one person who is wise counsel)--If you did ask her, time to tell her parents. Ask them to work with you to end the affair.
> 4) Expose to pro-marriage people who might be affected - or to whom she might listen
> 5) ALWAYS be working Plan A
> 6) Plan B
> 7) Legal Separation.*


P.S. Added for giggles:


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## 13yrs3kids

What exactly is plan A and Plan B, and if possible can you get me links to any examples of things I should say or do. 
BTW I believe I'm up to step 3. 

I had brought it up to her parents at one point but I didn't have enough evidence at the time they asked her about but told them it was just a friend and made a big deal and had me tell them that they need to let us deal with our problems alone.This was a big mistake on my part but I was acting out of fear because at the time things started to look like there was some progress. Although she still was in contact with the OM. Anyway I'm ready to ask her parents for help and the first time when I spoke to her dad he told me that if she tried to bring another man home he would kick her out. I am in the process of writing a letter to her parents and having it translated in their native language so there is no chance of misunderstanding. Thank you for all the help You guys are the best!! and thanks for the Pic it really did make me laugh!


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## turnera

Plan A and B are at marriagebuilders.com. You can find a lot about them there. Plan A is being the man she should be wanting (if she wasn't cheating) - the man she fell in love with. Don't do anything that upsets her - EXCEPT for stopping the affair - THAT, you do!; doing whatever you can to meet her main needs (affection, support, honesty, conversation, etc.); staying calm, secure, and confident; do NOT act out of fear; don't revolve your whole life around her, have your own life so you aren't so clingy; look and smell good.

Plan B is what you do when you've taken all you can take, and you start falling out of love with her, or hating her, because of the cheating. At that point, you write her a love letter explaining why you can never see her again except for extreme necessities, unless she is willing to give up OM. You handle kids through intermediaries like her parents; you give her a person to contact you through, who will filter out any junk she spews, and only convey necessary facts about the kids. Basically, you are cutting her out of your life. It's very powerful, so only do it when you're absolutely ready to never see her again.

And tell her parents just what you told us, about why you backed down and everything.


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## 13yrs3kids

So looks like I am up to step 3:scratchhead:

I spoke with her mother last night and it seems she is on board. I'm not quite sure how this step is supposed to go. Should/can I be present? 

They are not to lash out on her correct? They should just let her know that they are aware of what is going on and they disapprove of it and it must stop. Is that it? What if she wants proof that we know?

I want to keep that information as limited as possible so I don't lose my source even though I believe if she does chose to continue she will hide things more then ever as she is already suspicious of me as is.


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## turnera

It is NEVER your job to provide your wife PROOF of her adultery. YOU know she's cheating. SHE knows she's cheating. Her mother knows she's cheating. 

That point is now moot.

You're beyond that. You do not CARE if she wants proof. You've moved beyond that and NOW want her to stop.

You will NOT waste time belaboring the 'fact' that she is cheating. Your time is more valuable than that. 

You are all NOW discussing what she's going to do next. And at this point, it doesn't matter if she hides better. What matters is if she stops. You're watching. Her mom is watching. And if she is not willing to give you access to her phone and computer, and let you verify where she is at all times, etc., then you move on to the next step - full exposure. Not today, give it a week or so, to see what happens between her and her mother.


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## sisters359

My question, 13, is why do you want to stay with her? I see a guy who is fearful of angering people and maybe afraid of being on his own--with or without the kids. Why? If you are financially dependent on her or her parents, then you need to start remedying that. 

If you have been fearful of conflict throughout your marriage, then that may be why your wife was susceptible to another man. This does not mean she had any right to act, or was right to avoid confrontation with you when she felt things were slipping (in terms of her commitment to the marriage). She has made her own egregious errors. But take time to look at yourself and find a way to stand up for yourself.

I disagree strongly with Tunera on how people end up in affairs. Many people are in denial about how unsatisfying their marriages are, and that makes them susceptible to another person. Your wife may have tried to fix things in her own way, long ago, and then gave up, accepting the status quo as "well, I guess this is what marriage is like." Then she felt a connection with someone in a way she had not experienced in years--b/c she wasn't feeling it with you--and the light bulb goes on, and she realizes how much she has given up/missed. At that point, she needs to confront you and work on the marriage. She didn't. BUT I doubt she was a perfectly happy person who somehow ended up in an affair .


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## 13yrs3kids

sisters359 said:


> My question, 13, is why do you want to stay with her? I see a guy who is fearful of angering people and maybe afraid of being on his own--with or without the kids. Why? If you are financially dependent on her or her parents, then you need to start remedying that..


Well I came to this site in hopes of saving my marriage. I love my wife and I want what is best for my kids and that is a working healthy marriage. I was completly blindsided by her. Sure I know my marriage was not perfect but she never showed any signs that things were so bad. I believe this guy came in at the right time and pushed the right buttons to push her over the edge. 

I have to admit that it is extreamly difficult to sit back while she is doing what she is doing. The part that kills me is know what they talk about and such. I owe it to myself and my kids to at least do all I can. and if it doesn't work out after that I can say well I did everything could and have no regrets.

I just hope to reach her before the EA becomes a PA and it seems that its getting close to that point everyday. The good thing is that she is currently aways so a PA is not possibe at the moment. This is why I have to act now as soon as she gets back. I pray for the best. I pray for her that she has the strength and wisdom to wake up and realise what she is doing is a mistake. If she gave me a chance I know we could work things out.


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## turnera

sisters359 said:


> I disagree strongly with Tunera on how people end up in affairs. Many people are in denial about how unsatisfying their marriages are, and that makes them susceptible to another person. Your wife may have tried to fix things in her own way, long ago, and then gave up, accepting the status quo as "well, I guess this is what marriage is like." Then she felt a connection with someone in a way she had not experienced in years--b/c she wasn't feeling it with you--and the light bulb goes on, and she realizes how much she has given up/missed. At that point, she needs to confront you and work on the marriage. She didn't. BUT I doubt she was a perfectly happy person who somehow ended up in an affair .


When did I say anything to the contrary?


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## 13yrs3kids

Still not sure if I'm supposed to be present when her parents confront her for step 3 please clarify. Also it should only be them telling her what she is doing is wrong and they are disappointed in her and she must stop? examples or script would be helpful


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## Tanelornpete

You should try to be there. The purpose is to let her know that all of you 

1) do not approve of her actions, and 

2) are there to help her get through all the hard times.

Talk it over with them first, tell them what you are doing and why, and that you are really trying to save your marriage. But you can't control them - they will act how they feel is appropriate.


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## turnera

I would give them information you've learned. Tell them that when a person enters into an EA or a PA, it's like they become an alien in their own body, or an addict - they'll do anything to keep getting that 'fix' of the high brought on by the chemicals the body produces (just like when you're dating someone before you marry). Explain that's God's way of keeping the species going (if they are religious), but that when you're already married, it gets you in trouble.

As for what to tell her...They could say something like 'honey we love you but you are already married. Spending time with another man is wrong. You may think you're in love with him, or that your marriage was bad enough to do that, but that's not right. We never thought our daughter would do something like this, and frankly, we're disappointed in you. If you want us to feel better about this, you will NEVER see this OM again, and you will commit to fixing what was wrong in your marriage - 13 has already told us that he knows he has things to fix for what HE did wrong - and make a real effort to be back where you were when you were dating - happy and in love."

They may want to add something like 'only then, after you have committed at least 6 months to fixing your marriage, should you even consider leaving the marriage. And even then, it had BETTER not be to be with OM, because he will NEVER be welcome in our house.'


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## sisters359

A brief thread hijack: Tunera, I was responding to your comments on "rewriting history" once in the affair. Perhaps you don't intend it, but the comment makes it easy to infer that the marriage was fine before the affair. I think that needs to be clarified. Perfectly happily married people do not end up in affairs. Also, the comment about re-writing history tends to suggest that the WS is singularly at fault for the marital issues, which is rarely the case (mentally ill people aside,in this instance). Again, that may not be where you are coming from, but it sounds like that.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread!


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## turnera

What I mean by rewriting history is that, once a person engages in an affair, they JUSTIFY the affair by saying that the bad marriage drove them to it. 

They usually become unable to look back at the marriage and see that it was worth fighting for. They were unhappy anyway. They would have left anyway. It was just a matter of time.

IMO they arrive at a singularly unrealistic place that, even if they end the affair, the justification process prohibits them from seeing the truth - that there were issues in the marriage, but they were also likely not THAT unhappy that they were ready to throw in the towel. 

The one thing I hear from WS's here more than anything is "I can't get the spark back; I'll never feel the same; I'll never love him/her as much as OM/OW."

And they don't, often. Because that greener grass opened up their eyes to what they could have had elsewhere, and what was once an acceptable - if not great - marriage - worth keeping and/or fixing, is now garbage.

That's the rewriting I'm talking about. Hope that makes more sense.


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## Tanelornpete

When a Disloyal Spouse 're-writes' history, they magnify past troubles, minimize past goods, and in general modify their story of what happened and what is going on. 

The reason is that the are justifying the affair. If their marriage wasn't absolutely terrible, they wouldn't have a good reason to be seeking someone else. So it is painted in the worst possible light. It is made out to be unbearable, irreparable, bleak and miserable. The affair is the only logical, moral and healthy way to get the things they deserve.

This in no way excludes, nor diminishes the fact that something was going on in the marriage - such that the temptation to an affair was something to fall for. 

Nor does it infer that the Wandering Spouse is singularly responsible for the problems in the marriage. All it infers is that the Wandering Spouse is modifying how they present their marriage - so that the affair seems the correct choice.

There is something very useful about the fantasy - the rewritten history: within the framework is a kernel of truth - it DOES point to the problems. It just makes them seem so huge they cannot be repaired.


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## 13yrs3kids

Well we had the talk, her parents seemed to be on board with me but things didn't go well. First off for whatever reason her mother contacted her brother and let him know about the letter she said she didn't give the details but i don't believe her. anyway he called me all nasty about why get the parents involved and was just plain nasty with me. I know he contacted my wife so she had a nice heads up.

Anyway when she got home (was very late) she said she was tired and had to get up early. I told her we had to talk and it had to happen now. so she complied. her father did most the talking asking for the truth about the other man. She still tried to deny that it was anything but a friend and that i could have her phone and that she was not going to talk with him anymore. I didn't but that and i gave some details about how i knew they were more then friends. in the end though she said she did not want to be with me. I spent the night at my sisters house.

So looks like went from step 3 to plan b? or separation. she seems set on not wanting to work on the marriage. I go away for a few days tomorrow any advice?


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## turnera

Do NOT agree to move out! SHE is the one cheating. Let HER move out, no matter where you are living. Her parents support you and your marriage. USE that to your advantage.

Oh, and TAKE her phone. She offered.

And if you talk to her brother again, ask him if he'd be cool with HIS wife carrying on with another guy, and whether he would just step back and let her do it, or fight for his marriage.


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## 13yrs3kids

Well I'm back and currently staying at home until I can find my own place.. I know everyone says I should stay home but that is easier said then done. while her parents seem to agree with me they also believe it is her decision on if she wants a divorce or not. She told them she would stop contact with the OM, but I know she won't. 

When I got back from my trip I spoke with her briefly about us and if there were any changes but there were not and she wanted me out asap. I asked about the OM and she said she would still talk to him. 

Last night I got a chance to speak with her dad again and let him know that she is still talking with the OM. I told him that I 
didn't have proof but she told me that she was going to keep up with him. I told him to keep his eyes open because I lost my inside info and its up to him to seek the truth at this point.

At this point I still love her but my main concern is the kids. I am angry that she feels like divorce will have a minimal effect on the children (6, 4(soon to be 5), 2(soon to be 3)). It kills me that I wasn't much of a hands on dad but since this whole mess I have been and made closer bonds with the kids then ever. My kids have always loved me and I have always been a big part of their lives. I just didn't help much with the day to day stuff like baths and laundry and such.

Oh and I call the OM told him I knew what was going on he just said "I don't know what your talking about" and I hung up.

So how does step 4 work.. is everyone supposed to just contact her?


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## turnera

Are you talking about exposure?


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## 13yrs3kids

turnera said:


> Are you talking about exposure?


as far as step 4 yes basically everyone in my family knows but she has not contacted anyone in my family for a while now over a month and avoids them at all costs. I just don't feel it makes much difference at this point because it is easy for her to hide the affair. So do I ask people to call her? and as far as friends not sure who would be pro marriage I imagine most people would feel uncomfortable and not want to get involved the few friends I can think of are mutual friend but through my wife.


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## turnera

It can't hurt to ask them to continue to put pressure on her, if they are willing.

As for contacting her, exposure is not so much about people putting pressure on her as it is in her KNOWING that all her family and friends KNOW she's cheating. It's the embarrassment, the shame, and the knowledge that people will not accept this new guy and just be willing to let her replace you with him and continue on as if nothing happened. THAT is what can stop the affair - bursting the bubble, getting her to realize that everyone knows it's wrong. Get her to question if OM is really worth it.

Me? I'm very blunt. I would be asking everyone who's willing to give her a hard time. Not be rude to her, but point out to her that they don't approve, they will NOT accept this guy as her new 'love,' and they are disappointed in her.


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## Anna11

Hi 13yrs3kids, i have been through with that my h did it to me, it's not going to work even your family will talk to her,she will try to avoid anyone who will give comment especialy your family. Let her do the things that she's doing, I know it hurts, i have been there and there's not much you can do but pray and focus on your kids help, help yourself and try to remove yourself away from her because no matter what you do at this time her mind is close and nobody can stop her even your kids. I know exactly how you feel, show her that you are okay and don't show to her that you're crying or sad


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## 13yrs3kids

Well it's been a while since I last posted. I will be moving out sometime after the 15th of July. I came to a realization nothing I say or do will change her mind. No one will come a long and convince her to stop what she is doing. This is something that must come from inside her. So I know I must move on. I've had my ups and downs since my last post. 

Anger seemed to help me the most while I was angry with her I felt no pain but I can't seem to get angry at her right. The other day I was looking at some old pictures and saw one of us kissing we looked so happy in that picture it really tore me up. 

Today I was looking at some old emails and saw one from last year. It was basically her telling me that she wanted her family back and that she loved me and ended the email with forever yours and her name. I still love her ( I guess this is what is called unconditional love). 

Things have gotten very ugly after we spoke with her parents. It is very difficult living her at the moment and I sadly look forward to moving out just for my own sanity. But I pray that she will come around one day and I pray that I will have the strength to forgive her. I appreciate everyone that has given me advice. I'll post if there are any updates or I feel I need to.

If you can say a prayer for me and my family.


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## curiously

13... I feel for you, because.... My husband and I have been married for nearly 29 years, however, 5 of them were spent separated, we got back together in Jan 2008... We both had conditions, one of mine was that he stop having very expensive lunches with this young lady. She and their lunches were *supposedly* business related ONLY... BUT since when do you send flirty emails to a business associate? When I say flirty I mean he said things like.... *Can't wait to see you* *You are so unique, enjoyed our time so much didn't want it to end* *Need to see you for lunch I've missed you* etc etc etc... When I did aske him to tell me the truth about her, he admitted that there was ONCE an attraction, later he said it was she who was attracted...
Anyhow, I emotionally explained how it hurt me that he take a woman to lunch, and say things to her that he never said to me, let alone taking me to such lavious lunches... ended up telling him that it HAD TO STOP if it didn't our marriage was over... (not like there weren't other problems) .... For a few months it looked like he decided our marriage and ME, were more important, no lunches....
Well, one Sat morning I looked over and saw his computer on, the screen was on emails, and there in front of me was one from him to her, telling her it was to see again and they HAD to do it again soon... I CAME UNGLUED.... 
Even though things got crazy we are still together, and he finally did see that these lunches were not the place for a married man trying to rebuild his marriage of 29 years.... As far as I know they haven't seen each other. I DID EMAIL HER though... won't get into that, but I wasn't nasty or anything, I just stated a few facts she may not have been aware of....

Bottom line, while my husband, and maybe even your wife, claim there is nothing going on, with time it could, besides, if it simple JUST LUNCH, then it is SIMPLY not important enough to cause problems in a marriage!

I am a little late posting I can see that, but I just had to share with you the fact that I am on your side, to say that you pushed her to someone else is complete BS. If you love someone, why do anything you know will cause them pain? 

Ok I'm done with my rant... sorry.... things for my marriage haven't changed in what is now going on 30 years, and they aren't likely to.... So I too am looking to head off to the land of singledom... Heaven help me.


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## 13yrs3kids

curiously, 

thanks for your post at this point I know they were more then just friends... Not sure how far things have got with them. At this point it doesn't matter. I believe that I have tried everything I could to try and fix things or even make an attempt to fix things. I wish things could be different more for the kids then anything but I would be lying if I said I still didn't love her. I have accepted the fact that I can not change her mind and any change has to come from her. I'm not holding my breath even though in my heart I still have hope. I have to move on. 

They say love never fails and I know we were in love at one point. Only time will tell if that is true. Best of luck to you in your marriage.


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