# Does the cheater hurt too?



## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

He cheated on me in February and on September 17 after 2 years of marriage he admits that he's no good for me and wants to leave. We've talked here and there, mainly about what we're gonna do with some of our bills since he moved back east. Between all that we talked about how we're doing. Of course he knows I'm broken hearted but he asks me how I'm doing and keeps telling me to get out of the house to keep my mind busy. He also admitted that though he messed up and initiated the divorce, it's hitting him hard as well. He admitted that there are days he has a hard time getting out of bed and forces himself to be around people to keep his mind busy. At a gas station he ran into a woman who reminded him of me and he had to get out of there before he got too emotional.

I believed him when he told me. But....should I? Could he be sincere even though he threw our marriage away? Guilt? Do the cheaters really get hit hard when they realize that they ruined a good thing?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

> I believed him when he told me. But....should I? Could he be sincere even though he threw our marriage away? Guilt?


Yes, guilt is what people feel when they're guilty.

And, yes, sometimes the cheater recognizes that he screwed up, big time, and he lost something very, very good by trading it for something worthless.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are wondering whether he will seek reconciliation. His statement that he is not good for you may well be the truth.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Your husband sounds a bit like mine. For my husband, this behavior is a product of his supreme ability to compartmentalize. If that's the case with your husband, he may genuinely feel terrible about what's happened, regret his choices, and want you back - when he speaks with you or interacts with you. But he may feel none of those things when you're not around.

I believe that many cheating spouses do eventually feel deep regret and remorse for what their choices have cost them, their spouse, their families. But not all of them do.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SepticChange said:


> He cheated on me in February and on September 17 after 2 years of marriage he admits that he's no good for me and wants to leave. We've talked here and there, mainly about what we're gonna do with some of our bills since he moved back east. Between all that we talked about how we're doing. Of course he knows I'm broken hearted but he asks me how I'm doing and keeps telling me to get out of the house to keep my mind busy. He also admitted that though he messed up and initiated the divorce, it's hitting him hard as well. He admitted that there are days he has a hard time getting out of bed and forces himself to be around people to keep his mind busy. At a gas station he ran into a woman who reminded him of me and he had to get out of there before he got too emotional.
> 
> I believed him when he told me. But....should I? Could he be sincere even though he threw our marriage away? Guilt? Do the cheaters really get hit hard when they realize that they ruined a good thing?


Oh, yes, they can.

Just ask the FWS on TAM. CantSitStill and Empty Inside for two.

And though my own stupid revenge affair was a reaction to my wife's affair (I know, I was wrong to do it) my own affair hurt me more than my wife's affair did. It was my affair that put me on Prozac for a while,not hers.)


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Regret because of what the cheater loss, is still selfish. Regret because you destroyed the one person you swore to love and protect is divine, but seemingly all too rare.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Oh, yes, they can.
> 
> Just ask the FWS on TAM. CantSitStill and Empty Inside for two.
> 
> And though my own stupid revenge affair was a reaction to my wife's affair (I know, I was wrong to do it) my own affair hurt me more than my wife's affair did. It was my affair that put me on Prozac for a while,not hers.)


 CSS's husband here.
M&M is right,some really do see exactly what they did and the hurt they caused.
EI but they do seem kinda rare.
Men and women alike.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Cheaters get hurt when they're busted, yes, for their dreamland comes to an abrupt end and shatters like stepped-on thin ice.

Just sayin'.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

As soon as the fog breaks the pain and self loathing settle in.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

illwill said:


> Regret because of what the cheater loss, is still selfish. Regret because you destroyed the one person you swore to love and protect is divine, but seemingly all too rare.


I was upset because I'd hurt my wife, my one true love.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

SepticChange said:


> He cheated on me in February and on September 17 after 2 years of marriage he admits that he's no good for me and wants to leave. We've talked here and there, mainly about what we're gonna do with some of our bills since he moved back east. Between all that we talked about how we're doing. Of course he knows I'm broken hearted but he asks me how I'm doing and keeps telling me to get out of the house to keep my mind busy. He also admitted that though he messed up and initiated the divorce, it's hitting him hard as well. He admitted that there are days he has a hard time getting out of bed and forces himself to be around people to keep his mind busy. At a gas station he ran into a woman who reminded him of me and he had to get out of there before he got too emotional.
> 
> I believed him when he told me. But....should I? Could he be sincere even though he threw our marriage away? Guilt? Do the cheaters really get hit hard when they realize that they ruined a good thing?


Sure the cheater feels hurt. Many times cheaters cheat because their spouses have neglected their needs. Many of the "BS" here need to take a good hard look at how they treated their spouse BEFORE being cheated on. A lot of BS were downright neglectful and the when they get cheated in their shocked. Sure they say "he/ she should have talked to me" and blah blah blah....many of them have and the BS just didn't listen. BS may not have an active role in deciding to cheat but don't think for one minute that they're not guilty of the demise in the relationship that led to that terrible choice. I think too many time the cheater forgets about their own wants and needs during R . In many ways the cheater is much more hurt than the BS but they can't say anything because the focus is all on the BS and the hurt they feel. I haven't cheated on my wife but the way she treats me and has treated me in the past I could have easily gone down that path. Reading all the stories here I often think they the BS are incredibly selfish. It's all about them...always has been. THEY neglected their spouse. THEY now get to call the shots about R. Often times it's just a lot if BS. I think a lot of the BS here need to really look at how they treated their spouses before the affairs...I see my STBXW in a lot if the posts here made by BS....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> Cheaters get hurt when they're busted, yes, for their dreamland comes to an abrupt end and shatters like stepped-on thin ice.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Not always. I busted myself, I confessed to my wife the very next day. Not my proudest of moments.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Yours was a revenge. That doesn't count.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

If you are going to have a successful R, then they have to feel the hurt. "Lucky" for me my WW felt the “hurt" even before she confessed. I could tell something was eating her up inside for about week before D Day. It's been almost a year now and even though she tries real hard to hide it, I truly believe her pain is real.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> Yours was a revenge. That doesn't count.


Yes, yes it does count. Revenge affair or not. I should not have done it. I was so wrong to do it.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

SepticChange said:


> I believed him when he told me. But....should I? Could he be sincere even though he threw our marriage away? Guilt? Do the cheaters really get hit hard when they realize that they ruined a good thing?


I can't speak for anyone except myself. It has been just over 16 months since D-Day. My husband and I are reconciling. I was the WS. We've both worked very hard on ourselves, as individuals, and on our marriage. I can honestly say that, at this point, my husband is coping far, far better than I am. The guilt, the shame, the remorse, the loss of my own self-respect (that I threw away,) the inescapable awareness that I hurt and betrayed my husband, my children, and myself, is crippling and oppressive. Yet, I feel a tremendous obligation to forgive myself. I feel that my husband and my children deserve a happy, healthy and healed wife and mother. They deserve the very best me that I can possibly give them. My inability, at this point, to find forgiveness for myself, has only increased my guilt.

It is a devastating conundrum. Yet, it is of my own making. So, "do cheaters get hit hard when they realize that they ruined a good thing?" Honestly, my marriage hadn't been "a good thing" for many years even before I cheated. Cheating certainly wasn't the answer. Yes, it hits hard. Every day. It hits so very hard.


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## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

P51Geo1980 said:


> Sure the cheater feels hurt. Many times cheaters cheat because their spouses have neglected their needs. Many of the "BS" here need to take a good hard look at how they treated their spouse BEFORE being cheated on. A lot of BS were downright neglectful and the when they get cheated in their shocked. Sure they say "he/ she should have talked to me" and blah blah blah....many of them have and the BS just didn't listen. BS may not have an active role in deciding to cheat but don't think for one minute that they're not guilty of the demise in the relationship that led to that terrible choice. I think too many time the cheater forgets about their own wants and needs during R . In many ways the cheater is much more hurt than the BS but they can't say anything because the focus is all on the BS and the hurt they feel. I haven't cheated on my wife but the way she treats me and has treated me in the past I could have easily gone down that path. Reading all the stories here I often think they the BS are incredibly selfish. It's all about them...always has been. THEY neglected their spouse. THEY now get to call the shots about R. Often times it's just a lot if BS. I think a lot of the BS here need to really look at how they treated their spouses before the affairs...I see my STBXW in a lot if the posts here made by BS....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't neglect him. He told me himself his libido had dropped. I offered myself to him nearly every night and he had excuses such as his back was hurting, headache, or his muscle relaxer made it difficult for him to perform...and I saw that. I was patient with him and didn't push. Then he goes and does this. That's what hurts the most. It'd be different and I may be slightly more accepting if I knew it was because of something I did. But I did nothing to him. He was just a serial cheater who gave in to temptation and did it just because he did. When he confessed the first time he kept telling me that it was nothing that I had done. 2 weeks ago while he was driving back east his nasty response was "cause I wanted something different."

...


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## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> You are wondering whether he will seek reconciliation. His statement that he is not good for you may well be the truth.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


I'm not wondering that. I did last week but there is no turning back. He filed the papers. Even backdated our separation so we can get it over with quicker. He doesn't want me back. I don't want him back either. At least my brain doesn't....but my heart does. Done listening to the heart.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

EI said:


> I can't speak for anyone except myself. It has been just over 16 months since D-Day. My husband and I are reconciling. I was the WS. We've both worked very hard on ourselves, as individuals, and on our marriage. I can honestly say that, at this point, my husband is coping far, far better than I am. The guilt, the shame, the remorse, the loss of my own self-respect (that I threw way,) the inescapable awareness that I hurt and betrayed my husband, my children, and myself, is crippling and oppressive. Yet, I feel a tremendous obligation to forgive myself. I feel that my husband and my children deserve a happy, healthy and healed wife and mother. They deserve the very best me that I can possibly give them. My inability, at this point, to find forgiveness for myself, has only increased my guilt.
> 
> It is a devastating conundrum. Yet, it is of my own making. So, "do cheaters get hit hard when they realize that they ruined a good thing?" Honestly, my marriage hadn't been "a good thing" for many years even before I cheated. Cheating certainly wasn't the answer. Yes, it hits hard. Every day. It hits so very hard.


Too bad we can't bottle up your remorse and sell it to the other waywards.
You are so classy and decent it's hard to believe you had a affair. Start viewing yourself through the eyes of friends and family. They see you more clearly.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

illwill said:


> Too bad we can't bottle up your remorse and sell it to the other waywards.
> You are so classy and decent it's hard to believe you had a affair. Start viewing yourself through the eyes of friends and family. They see you more clearly.


Absolutly.

:iagree:


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

illwill said:


> Too bad we can't bottle up your remorse and sell it to the other waywards.
> You are so classy and decent it's hard to believe you had a affair. Start viewing yourself through the eyes of friends and family. They see you more clearly.





Acabado said:


> Absolutly.
> 
> :iagree:



Thank you, both, for your very kind and generous words. They're greatly appreciated. It's bittersweet, but it still means so much.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> Sure the cheater feels hurt. Many times cheaters cheat because their spouses have neglected their needs. Many of the "BS" here need to take a good hard look at how they treated their spouse BEFORE being cheated on.


Now I mainly respond to betrayed husband threads, but I'd say their failure is in being too nice. Generally speaking. 



P51Geo1980 said:


> A lot of BS were downright neglectful and the when they get cheated in their shocked.


 Cheating IS neglecting your spouse by default. 


P51Geo1980 said:


> Sure they say "he/ she should have talked to me" and blah blah blah....


It's not blah blah blah. They could and chose not to. 



P51Geo1980 said:


> many of them have and the BS just didn't listen.


There is no long term relationship without its low points. These are periods of time where one or anothers needs aren't met. 

To think a long relationship doesn't have it's periods where someones needs aren't being met is wrong. A quick conversation with an elderly married couple will dispel that. 


P51Geo1980 said:


> BS may not have an active role in deciding to cheat but don't think for one minute that they're not guilty of the demise in the relationship that led to that terrible choice.


This probably varries. Some BSs are probably pretty good spouses. Some no doubt are hard to get along with. 

But comparing the two transgressions is like comparing the firecracker to the nuke. 

They're separated by many degrees of severity. 

For example, ignoring your spouse does not risk them getting HIV. Raising someone elses kids or many other common sense risks. 


P51Geo1980 said:


> I think too many time the cheater forgets about their own wants and needs during R .


Well that's because the remorseful ones, at least, have been meeting their needs for months or years while the betrayed often languish. 



P51Geo1980 said:


> In many ways the cheater is much more hurt than the BS


I may have missed the joke here. 



P51Geo1980 said:


> Reading all the stories here I often think they the BS are incredibly selfish.


You have this backwards. By default cheaters are "incredibly" selfish.



P51Geo1980 said:


> I think a lot of the BS here need to really look at how they treated their spouses before the affairs...I see my STBXW in a lot if the posts here made by BS....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe I wasn't a perfect husband. But like most here being imperfect didn't warrant questioning whether my kids are mine, risks of getting STDs, or the emotional impact of being used, abused and manipulated for many years.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

2galsmom said:


> Who cares.
> 
> They end up hurting and feeling guilty and then they hurt you more out of that hurt. Forgive them? Well then they lose respect for you for enduring their abuse and treat you worse. Their self-loathing can cause massive destruction to the relationship.
> 
> ...


BEST. POST. EVER.... 

or at least, it's pretty good. Spot on. 

@septicchange. 

Does your husband regret and hurt? 

He regrets and hurts that he was caught. He does not regret about your pain. These people, when they're in their affairs they live in a dream land. You wanna know how they think and operate. Google. Affair forums. Click on a couple. I did this to try and grasp what my wife was thinking-as no person of strong character or moral fiber can understand these people. 

They don't regret your pain. They don't care what their affair did to you. 

They loved their affair. 

Every minute of it. 

It was the best feeling in the world. 

A rush. A jolt of life. 

They're only sorry they got caught. 

Truth: It will set you free. The truth is: He thought of you. But you were an obstacle. A road block. An enemy of his lust and sexual and/or emotional deprivation with his OW. And he relished in the rush of lying to you and "getting away with it". 

That's why they do it. That's why they stay married to their spouse while having their affair. It's all about them. The feeling and rush of deceiving. Betrayal is addictive. 

There is no greater betrayal than betrayal of the heart. 

Truth. 

But from this immense pain of being betrayed, one can grow and become stronger. 

Be strong. Don't let his "feelings" cloud your judgement and affect you. 

Be your own person. Be free. Unafraid. When you have no fear of losing anything, you can truly do anything.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Regret can be a depressing reality that can help someone become a better person.

No pain, no gain.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Move on. Learn. Heal. Find someone better.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

illwill said:


> Move on. Learn. Heal. Find someone better.


Sometimes your WS *IS* that better person.:smthumbup:


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## beachbabe (May 11, 2012)

Absolutely LOVE this question!~ :smthumbup:

I had this question in my head for months after my H's incident until we sat down and really had a heart to heart. 
He told me that the turmoil he was in while 'it' was going on, ate him alive. The dishonesty and the deception far out weighed the 'pleasure' and he didn't know how to get out of it. Once I found out, he thought the turmoil would finally end and he felt somewhat relieved; BUT he said it just got worse in a different way. 
Seeing the pain in my eyes, he said; just about killed him. He said that he was so sorry for not thinking of me while he was involved. He's promised me that nothing would ever happen again because of that one factor alone. He said that when he's saw terrible pain and hurt in my eyes; everything became very real. His fantasy life was over. He vowed to never do it again, and would never put himself in that situation again. Its been a year and a half and he's been true to his word.  (He saw a counsellor, no Facebook, no passwords, sent a no contact letter to her; with a little input from me and apologized to our children.)

Do I believe that he won't hurt me again in that way? 
Let's just say, I'm working on that, with his help <3 ...
I am very hopeful~


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## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

TheFlood117 said:


> BEST. POST. EVER....
> 
> or at least, it's pretty good. Spot on.
> 
> ...



The first time he didn't get caught. He told me 2 weeks later.


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## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

beachbabe said:


> Absolutely LOVE this question!~ :smthumbup:
> 
> I had this question in my head for months after my H's incident until we sat down and really had a heart to heart.
> He told me that the turmoil he was in while 'it' was going on, ate him alive. The dishonesty and the deception far out weighed the 'pleasure' and he didn't know how to get out of it. Once I found out, he thought the turmoil would finally end and he felt somewhat relieved; BUT he said it just got worse in a different way.
> ...



You're incredibly lucky. I'm glad he got his head out of posterior and realized what he had. Congrats to you both for working through it.


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

beachbabe said:


> Absolutely LOVE this question!~ :smthumbup:
> 
> I had this question in my head for months after my H's incident until we sat down and really had a heart to heart.
> He told me that the turmoil he was in while 'it' was going on, ate him alive. The dishonesty and the deception far out weighed the 'pleasure' and he didn't know how to get out of it. Once I found out, he thought the turmoil would finally end and he felt somewhat relieved; BUT he said it just got worse in a different way.
> ...


Our WS felt the same. I am also very hopeful Beachbabe.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

P51Geo1980 said:


> Sure the cheater feels hurt. Many times cheaters cheat because their spouses have neglected their needs. Many of the "BS" here need to take a good hard look at how they treated their spouse BEFORE being cheated on. A lot of BS were downright neglectful and the when they get cheated in their shocked. Sure they say "he/ she should have talked to me" and blah blah blah....many of them have and the BS just didn't listen. BS may not have an active role in deciding to cheat but don't think for one minute that they're not guilty of the demise in the relationship that led to that terrible choice. I think too many time the cheater forgets about their own wants and needs during R . In many ways the cheater is much more hurt than the BS but they can't say anything because the focus is all on the BS and the hurt they feel. I haven't cheated on my wife but the way she treats me and has treated me in the past I could have easily gone down that path. Reading all the stories here I often think they the BS are incredibly selfish. It's all about them...always has been. THEY neglected their spouse. THEY now get to call the shots about R. Often times it's just a lot if BS. I think a lot of the BS here need to really look at how they treated their spouses before the affairs...I see my STBXW in a lot if the posts here made by BS....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Statistically this does not add up. 

1. Over 50% to 75% of men (depending on the research) who cheated claim that they were in a good marriage and not dissatisfied with their wives.

2. Research found that 34% of women who cheated were happy or very happy in their marriage. There is a number of women who cheat that claim neglect or lack of emotional closeness and that does seem to be one of the larger complaints from woman who cheat.

P51 - to summarize your views - the cheater cheats because

1. Their needs are neglected.
2. BS don't listen.
3. BS are incredibly selfish, it is all about them, always has been.

And - 1. Cheaters can't say anything during R.
2. Cheaters often forget about their own needs and wants during R.

I would call your analysis - BULL HOCKEY.

The WS's issues do need to be address during R. I don't see where folks here on TAM don't take into account the WS issues. 

I know for me I did not neglect my wife. I know I listened to her. I remember one conversation I had with her within a year of me coming back from Iraq. I asked her what she needs. She told me she needs something to look forward to in life, like trips or going to ballgames. I gave her all that and more, and you know what she did in return, she cheated big time. So don't give me the BS about neglect, not talking, etc. Because many of us BS do that and more and we are still cheated on by our WS. I will tell you again that your analysis is Bull Hockey.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> Sure the cheater feels hurt. Many times cheaters cheat because their spouses have neglected their needs. Many of the "BS" here need to take a good hard look at how they treated their spouse BEFORE being cheated on. A lot of BS were downright neglectful and the when they get cheated in their shocked. Sure they say "he/ she should have talked to me" and blah blah blah....many of them have and the BS just didn't listen. BS may not have an active role in deciding to cheat but don't think for one minute that they're not guilty of the demise in the relationship that led to that terrible choice. I think too many time the cheater forgets about their own wants and needs during R . In many ways the cheater is much more hurt than the BS but they can't say anything because the focus is all on the BS and the hurt they feel. I haven't cheated on my wife but the way she treats me and has treated me in the past I could have easily gone down that path. Reading all the stories here I often think they the BS are incredibly selfish. It's all about them...always has been. THEY neglected their spouse. THEY now get to call the shots about R. Often times it's just a lot if BS. I think a lot of the BS here need to really look at how they treated their spouses before the affairs...I see my STBXW in a lot if the posts here made by BS....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You sound like someone who is getting ready to cheat and is looking to justify it. Your post is so misguided and wrong it's painful to read.


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## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

He told someone he's over me. If he hurt at all it lasted the two days it took to drive back east.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

SepticChange said:


> He told someone he's over me. If he hurt at all it lasted the two days it took to drive back east.


Hurtful for sure, but remember the source. You deserve someone who will love you right.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

P51Geo1980 said:


> Sure the cheater feels hurt. Many times cheaters cheat because their spouses have neglected their needs. Many of the "BS" here need to take a good hard look at how they treated their spouse BEFORE being cheated on. A lot of BS were downright neglectful and the when they get cheated in their shocked. Sure they say "he/ she should have talked to me" and blah blah blah....many of them have and the BS just didn't listen. BS may not have an active role in deciding to cheat but don't think for one minute that they're not guilty of the demise in the relationship that led to that terrible choice. I think too many time the cheater forgets about their own wants and needs during R . In many ways the cheater is much more hurt than the BS but they can't say anything because the focus is all on the BS and the hurt they feel. I haven't cheated on my wife but the way she treats me and has treated me in the past I could have easily gone down that path. Reading all the stories here I often think they the BS are incredibly selfish. It's all about them...always has been. THEY neglected their spouse. THEY now get to call the shots about R. Often times it's just a lot if BS. I think a lot of the BS here need to really look at how they treated their spouses before the affairs...I see my STBXW in a lot if the posts here made by BS....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i agree that many BS could have contributed to not meeting the WS needs.

but the flaw in your argument is why then would a WS want to R? so many times here, so many stories how the 'fog" lifts, the WS now can see the BS is the "love of their life" and will say/do anything to get them back? why didnt they have this attitude or action BEFORE the affair??? so take this argument and stuff it right down the trash. BULL HOCKEY i think was the term used earlier and i agree 100%.

if a WS wants OUT of the marriage after the affair discovery because their needs werent being met, than i might see some validty to this argument. but dont see a whole lot of that around here.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I think it's because there are different reasons for affairs. 

I have no idea how many "different kinds" there are. Some affair are to end the marriage and GTFO...and some are due to the WS wanting to hurt the BS and much as the BS hurt them...and some are due to sort of laziness/neglect...and some are due to a stupid choice and then being too darn prideful to admit they were wrong...and some are mistakes (not the "oops how did that happen" kind but the "that was the wrong thing to do" kind). 

Of the types of affairs I mentioned just right there, the only one who's likely to want to R is the last one. I'd guess the lazy/neglect one is the one who might flirt around with someone at work and enjoy the attention and THEN realize the BS was the love of their life. At the time they weren't thinking it was playing with fire...until the bomb went off, right?

Shoot we can't even assume that needs were being neglected every time! I mean, it is not as likely but it's sure in the realm of conceivable that the WS is just a sociopath! Most aren't, but if someone has no conscience and no empathy, they'd have an affair just because it felt good and have NO CLUE why the other person was even upset about it! :0

That being said, I think P51Geo1980 isn't pointless. The truth is that every relationship---EVERY one--requires TWO people. For it to be a good relationship they have to both be healthy, both treat each other with respect, both pay attention and make the effort to act in a loving way all the time. I think BOTH people need to focus on remembering that the promise they made was not "to have my spouse meet MY needs" but rather that the promise was "I promise to spend my whole life studying my spouse and learning to meet their needs. I voluntarily give 100% of my affection and loyalty to my spouse and no one else!" 

The truth is a lot of WS's hurt. I hurt. I lost a baby and had no one to turn to for comfort. My BS found out he was sterile and I lost my fertility and had not one to help me through the mourning of that lost. He shut me out. I hurt. And I made a bad choice that wasn't major but he didn't notice. Then I gave up because I felt abandoned. I chose to give up. Me. Not him. But there were choices he made too that were hurtful. I call that "making an environment where an affair could happen." No one is ever "affair-proof" but if you are aware of what is your spouse's weakness, or how to protect your marriage and family from where YOU are weak, that really helps. If you let that weakness in...you make an environment where one or the other is most likely going to slip...and it really could be either person.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

beachbabe said:


> He told me that the turmoil he was in while 'it' was going on, ate him alive. The dishonesty and the deception far out weighed the 'pleasure' and he didn't know how to get out of it.


My husband said almost exactly the same thing! 

When he talks about it now, he literally squirms - it's a subject that not only makes him feel guilt and shame, but he hates what his affair has done to me, because I continue to deal with the grief and the trauma. But we're in MC, he's made some big changes and he's helping me to heal. Yes, I'm hopeful too. 

Affaircare makes a good point : there are many different reasons for affairs. Combinations of reasons too. So there are probably different degrees of "hurt" in the cheaters. Unfortunately, some may feel little or none, or if they feel it, it may be fleeting and not a very deep kind of hurt. I suspect most serial cheaters may fall in the latter category.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> I think it's because there are different reasons for affairs.
> 
> I have no idea how many "different kinds" there are. Some affair are to end the marriage and GTFO...and some are due to the WS wanting to hurt the BS and much as the BS hurt them...and some are due to sort of laziness/neglect...and some are due to a stupid choice and then being too darn prideful to admit they were wrong...and some are mistakes (not the "oops how did that happen" kind but the "that was the wrong thing to do" kind).
> 
> ...


I second affaircare's excellent summary:

I can't agree more that no one is ever affair proof. 

I never saw myself as the type to have an affair, but I did.

It was a combination of a hurtful marital environment and the right ingredients in another person who claimed to be willing to only engage in an affair, not a relationship.

At the time, it seemed like the perfect solution to my marital dilemma. 

Nevertheless, some who engage in affairs are psychopaths without a conscience and they will likely cheat even if the marital environment is perfect.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I know that affairs don't happen in a vacuum. I know that, many times, the BS may not be the best spouse, but the ENTIRE cornerstone of marriage is the "forsaking all others" part. The foundation of a marriage is "2 people". The house built on the foundation is everything else. The beautiful kitchen is the sex life. The 2500 sq feet is the communication. The beautiful bathroom with jacuzzi tub is the trust. etc. I hope you get my analogy. But the foundation is keeping the marriage between 2 people. Without a foundation, the house, no matter how great, can't survive.

Having your needs met, emotionally, physically, finanically etc. are critical to a happy marriage, but the base foundation in a marriage is that it is for just the two people involved.

Statistics state that 34% of women and 56% of men, in affairs, report that their marriage is happy. (InfidelityÂ*|Â*PsychPage) This statistic is important because it's also not taking into account the percentage of people, in affairs, who re-write marital history and change their perceptions of reality in order to maintain the affair, so I would venture to guess those numbers are considerably HIGHER, if not for the actual affair going on.

The mentality that is permeating this thread is disturbing, and it seems like it is creeping up more in TAM recently. There seems to be some, who although they state the take 100% ownership on one side of their mouth, bring up all of the reasons why infidelity is "ok" on the other side of their mouth. Sorry but cheating is 100% the WS's fault and responsibility. Yes there are influences, but the choices you make are yours. If you're struggling financially, do you go rob a bank? You have justification, you're not getting your financial needs met. You don't because its wrong. 

You can list EVERY problem a BS has (minus abuse..that is a completely unique animal) and they don't compare to infidelity because as long as it's just the 2 in the marriage, those problems can be fixed. The problems are still ONLY between the spouses. If the BS is neglectful (or insert other issues), the other spouse can demand change, counseling or fixing etc. And if it ultimately doesn't work, you get a divorce and move on. But you always keep marriage between 2 people

The problem with infidelity is you're bringing in an outside influence. It's impossible to properly deal with a marriage if one person is actively in an affair.

I'm not pointing fingers at any one specific WS in this thread or on this site. I'm not saying that the FWS's here were in a great marriage prior to their cheating. But we need to stop trying to lighten the burden a WS must carry. It's a big one. Betrayal is one of the greatest flaws a person can make. There's a reason the names Benedict Arnold and Judas carry so much contempt.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

They all do. Most of them eventually come to understand the devastation they have inflicted upon the people who love them most. There is some grim satisfaction in knowing that these can learn and grow. It's not vindictive delight (shouldn't be anyway) but the hope that this person will change into something that is no longer our enemy. 

Others suffer but will fail to either accept or understand why. This kind of situation is generally more hollow- there are creatures we can hurt that will not understand why they are suffering, only that they are in pain. In these kinds of situations the pain they feel is moot. 

Unfortunately my ex is probably the second kind of person. She has traded down to be sure. But in her mind she believes she is happy and life is grand. It is a most contrived spectacle, and one I feel no joy in witnessing. But she would rather immerse herself in bile and call it clean than come to terms with what she is. She will never understand the pain she endures because she won't acknowledge or even realize its origin. 

Everyone hurts. Not everyone bothers to grapple with the reasons.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

SepticChange said:


> Do the cheaters really get hit hard when they realize that they ruined a good thing?


Yes. But it is too late.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

To me the idea of "creating an environment that makes an affair possible" is a little like saying that your crappy boss "created an environment where stealing from the office is possible." There are some things that are just wrong to do, period.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm sure all cheaters hurt to a degree. But I think there are a lot of them that don't hurt enough to be truly remorseful. That's why it's so important that they know the feeling of what it's like to lose their marriage partner for what they did, and that that feeling stays with them for at least a few weeks. I believe that's the most important consequence - and that's where the BS comes in.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

"Does the cheater hurt too?"

Should we care?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

The cheater hurts, but the cheater causes his/her own hurt. So it's not as sympathetic.

I had an EA several years ago and it was painful for me in certain ways -- similar to the husband of a poster above, I felt at times trapped in the situation, like I couldn't figure out how to extricate myself and make it stop being an EA. It was actually confusing more often than it was fun. But I was also in a lot of denial and refusing to just cut it off completely as needed to be done. The bottom line is that I was the one making the decisions and causing the problem, so I don't think I deserve sympathy for the "hurt" I felt.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

I hurt for the pain I have caused with my actions. I hurt because I could have said "no" but didn't. I hurt because my husband hurts, my family hurts. I hurt because I betrayed my husband, my family and myself.

I'm a very lucky woman because my husband stayed with me. My hurt is a very small price to pay and I'll be happy to pay because he's still my husband.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

^^^ Ok I digress with my earlier post. This kind of hurt I can definitely care about. When I said "who cares?", I'm basically referring to the hurt of a WS that comes from pining for their lover.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It's extremely rare that a cheater would truly ever admit to hurting, but in their quieter, more solitude moments alone, I truly believe in my heart that they do!

But their pride and their self-justification largely always stands in the way, greatly to the point that I really don't feel that they would even admit it to God, much less to their betrayed partner or family members!

And I'd like to call as my very first witness, my cheating, lying XW!*


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

John Lee said:


> To me the idea of "creating an environment that makes an affair possible" is a little like saying that your crappy boss "created an environment where stealing from the office is possible." There are some things that are just wrong to do, period.


Well, I don't agree. There are always extenuating circumstances. 

Say the boss is stealing time from an employee by threatening job loss, if a worker doesn't work overtime, and there is no way for the worker to prove this legally. 

So, let's say the abused worker slacks off a bit when he can to get even. Some would say that is definitely also a theft. A theft of the company's time, but most people would agree that it is justifiable or at least should result in a negligible punishment.

A lot of BS's simply believe they have no faults. They can do no wrong things in a marriage, but if the spouse does, it's over. If the spouse complains they turn things around or shame the spouse. 

None of the WS are asking for sympathy, from anyone here. I hope you all realize that. 

I don't even want sympathy from my wife. 

I worked on the relationship because I love my wife. It would really have been easier to move on and to find someone new. 

If my wife was as punitive as some of the BS's here, I would have. 

I have said this in other posts. I love her, but I don't need her. 

Also, if my wife had an affair, if she was the first, that wouldn't have spurred me to divorce her. I would still stick around and try to work things out. 

I would be darned, if I would allow sex with an insignificant stranger ruin my marriage. As long as it was ended. 

I know some will claim my next comment is rug sweeping, but it's true. My affair partner meant nothing to me. It was just about sex. She put it out there ( string-free sex ) way out there repeatedly, and I took the bait. 

A marriage is a two-way street. There are many forms of abuse and 
many ways to break your marriage vows other than having an affair.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

That doesn't sound very "remorseful", strayer


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, I don't agree. There are always extenuating circumstances.
> 
> Say the boss is stealing time from an employee by threatening job loss, if a worker doesn't work overtime, and there is no way for the worker to prove this legally.
> 
> ...


 Breaking marriage vows is a choice,plane and simple,its NOT a mistake.
A lot of other people also get hurt when an affair happens.
There is not one single reason or circumstance to cheat,there are other options.
To cheat is selfish,no way to justify it.....none.
There is an honorable way out if things are that bad,of course there is the easy and sleazy way out.
It says something about ones character.
There can be redemption for a one time cheater but they must be willing to do the
work to repair the damage they caused,something they should have done in the first place.
Even though my wife didn't get physical with old hs bf who is also a twice convicted felon and she met up with
him a few times but was scared and ran,she hurts pretty damn bad for what she did.
She works her butt off on fixing us and she tries her best to counsel people
who are thinking about having an affair.
She hurts but I don't feel it goes as deep as my pain did.
It took 20 months but she has taken a lot of the pain away and placed it on herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Hey! Over here!
All the sex you want from me with no strings! Have at it!
If it sounds too good to be true it is.
Also something called morals,some have them some don't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

Im 2 years past D-day and I can only answer for myself. The amount of guilt I feel for hurting my husband is horrible, there isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think about what I have done, I find myself crying almost daily.

I try not to do it in front of him as he doesn’t associate it with my guilt, he wants to know if Im cheating again and that’s why I cry.
I rationalized with myself why I cheated and felt justified, I asked for intimacy for years and was over looked, not because he was unable to but that he didn’t desire me. I had been replaced by porn and was told that two people can love each other and that sex doesn’t play a role in that.

I was so hungry for someone anyone to tell me I was beautiful and desired, that I fell hook line and sinker when someone commented on my selfie on my Facebook page and ended up talked dirty to someone for a couple of years, I never met up with this person it was filling a void that had been discussed and dismissed.

Having this attention was like a drug, yet I still felt lonely, I wanted to know if it was me, was I too fat, was I bad in bed, was I that undesirable, I placed an adult ad and asked that question, 4 or so months before D-day. I ended up having sex once with someone, it wasn’t what I expected, I felt dirty and cheap after. I enjoyed the emailing more than the actual act. 

Yes I was caught sending emails and from that day forward I have never opened another email account or spoke to anyone including friends again. I have been completely transparent and go nowhere by myself, we do communicate much more now however, my marriage will never be the same, I have often thought of suicide and have to talk myself down, my children don’t deserve to be put through my selfishness.

I hurt every day, I have insomnia and wait for my husband to tell me he is done and or cheat on me.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

learning to love myself said:


> Im 2 years past D-day and I can only answer for myself. The amount of guilt I feel for hurting my husband is horrible, there isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think about what I have done, I find myself crying almost daily.
> 
> I try not to do it in front of him as he doesn’t associate it with my guilt, he wants to know if Im cheating again and that’s why I cry.
> I rationalized with myself why I cheated and felt justified, I asked for intimacy for years and was over looked, not because he was unable to but that he didn’t desire me. I had been replaced by porn and was told that two people can love each other and that sex doesn’t play a role in that.
> ...


*As long as you've come clean between you and your H and more especially, between you and God(and I, for one, truly believe that you have), then you are forgiven! If there is any hope, please pray for your H to come around!

And whereas God may have forgiven you, and your H may have forgiven you as well, or is still perhaps engaged in the process; the one certainty is that the BS, while ultimately and oftentimes choosing to forgive their WS, will always, either consciously or subconsciously, remember what it was that was done to them!

They are far removed from being a garden variety fool! *


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

learning to love myself said:


> Im 2 years past D-day and I can only answer for myself. The amount of guilt I feel for hurting my husband is horrible, there isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think about what I have done, I find myself crying almost daily.
> 
> I try not to do it in front of him as he doesn’t associate it with my guilt, he wants to know if Im cheating again and that’s why I cry.
> I rationalized with myself why I cheated and felt justified, I asked for intimacy for years and was over looked, not because he was unable to but that he didn’t desire me. I had been replaced by porn and was told that two people can love each other and that sex doesn’t play a role in that.
> ...


 I'm almost 21 months out,I can't leave my wife in limbo,its not fair to her.
About six weeks ago I mad a firm commitment that we are going to make it and
no one is going anywhere.
She sounds like you,very remorseful.
I flopped around like a fish I'm in,I'm out,I'm in,I'm out....on and on.
Though she did'nt do what you did betrayal is betrayal.
Some people deserve that second chance and you sound like one of them.
I had to make a decision to let us be happy and give her my trust and heart back,I know I won't regret
It.
What you wrote was heart wrenching.
I hope he comes around and forgives and sticks by your side.
Give it some more time,prove yourself over and over if need be but he needs
To get on board also.
I wish you the best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, I don't agree. There are always extenuating circumstances.
> 
> Say the boss is stealing time from an employee by threatening job loss, if a worker doesn't work overtime, and there is no way for the worker to prove this legally.
> 
> So, let's say the abused worker slacks off a bit when he can to get even. Some would say that is definitely also a theft. A theft of the company's time, but most people would agree that it is justifiable or at least should result in a negligible punishment.


well , I don't think it's wise to compare the betrayal of marriage to a work issue. but anyway I've been there and done. I think usually there is a contract between worker and boss with specific work hours and pay amounts per hour. which if this is a violation of contract , well it can be pursued with the help of a lawyer. but let's just say there isn't any real contract. well this actually happened to me. they wouldn't give me money for the work I've done for them. and you know what I could steal. I could really hurt them. but I didn't. because money comes and goes but my value as a human being , my morals ... those just don't come and go. when you lose them , you really feel the loss. and now I'm happy about that. because if I stole that money then today here I would desperately trying to prove to anyone (more importantly to myself) what I stole was my right.



remorseful strayer said:


> A lot of BS's simply believe they have no faults. They can do no wrong things in a marriage, but if the spouse does, it's over. If the spouse complains they turn things around or shame the spouse.


yes some people (BS & WS) believe that and some people don't but that's not the point. the point is if in WS's view Marriage vows are already broken by their BS's then why they didn't just leave. why didn't they divorce? at-least be honest about it. 



remorseful strayer said:


> None of the WS are asking for sympathy, from anyone here. I hope you all realize that.


Now I'm not sure what WSs here want. I'm sure your not the chairman of WS Community. are you? :scratchhead:



remorseful strayer said:


> I don't even want sympathy from my wife.


yeah , sadly it's kinda obvious from your posts.



remorseful strayer said:


> I worked on the relationship because I love my wife. It would really have been easier to move on and to find someone new.


 you're saying this like you're doing her a favor. I mean come on. she is the one who's doing you a favor. way to go for humility, man.



remorseful strayer said:


> If my wife was as punitive as some of the BS's here, I would have.
> I have said this in other posts. I love her, but I don't need her.


yeah and I'm sure she would be happy to hear this. hey here's an idea : why don't you just tell her? you know make your woman happy.



remorseful strayer said:


> Also, if my wife had an affair, if she was the first, that wouldn't have spurred me to divorce her. I would still stick around and try to work things out.
> 
> I would be darned, if I would allow sex with an insignificant stranger ruin my marriage. As long as it was ended.


of course you would say this, man. since you are good with analogies , I give you one. a thief enters a house. the house-owner catches the thief. the thief says : if I was you (house-owner) I would let me go. 



remorseful strayer said:


> I know some will claim my next comment is rug sweeping, but it's true. My affair partner meant nothing to me. It was just about sex. She put it out there ( string-free sex ) way out there repeatedly, and *I took the bait.*


so all the things you've said until now was not rug sweeping. :scratchhead: ohhh ... now I get it. they were appetizer. this is the main dish. 

I took the bait 
excuse me! you're saying this like you were a helpless innocent bunny and your AP was a big wolf. you wanted it as your AP wanted it. you have the same responsibility.



remorseful strayer said:


> A marriage is a two-way street. There are many forms of abuse and
> many ways to break your marriage vows other than having an affair.


yeah there are many ways. but I say it again. if you believe that your marriage vows is/was broken by your wife, then you have/had the right to inform her of this and you could start the divorce process.

*You don't/didn't have the right to cheat.*


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, I don't agree. There are always extenuating circumstances.
> 
> Say the boss is stealing time from an employee by threatening job loss, if a worker doesn't work overtime, and there is no way for the worker to prove this legally.
> 
> ...


You don't need her?


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, I don't agree. There are always extenuating circumstances.
> 
> Say the boss is stealing time from an employee by threatening job loss, if a worker doesn't work overtime, and there is no way for the worker to prove this legally.
> 
> ...



To steal time from an employer because he makes the worker do overtime is stealing and the employer stealing doesn't make it okay for the employee to steal. The worker can leave and find a different job. He can put in a formal complaint, he can do plenty of things to better his situation INSTEAD OF LOWERING HIMSELF TO THE SAME STANDARDS HE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> Sure the cheater feels hurt. Many times cheaters cheat because their spouses have neglected their needs. Many of the "BS" here need to take a good hard look at how they treated their spouse BEFORE being cheated on. A lot of BS were downright neglectful and the when they get cheated in their shocked. Sure they say "he/ she should have talked to me" and blah blah blah....many of them have and the BS just didn't listen. BS may not have an active role in deciding to cheat but don't think for one minute that they're not guilty of the demise in the relationship that led to that terrible choice. I think too many time the cheater forgets about their own wants and needs during R . In many ways the cheater is much more hurt than the BS but they can't say anything because the focus is all on the BS and the hurt they feel. I haven't cheated on my wife but the way she treats me and has treated me in the past I could have easily gone down that path. Reading all the stories here I often think they the BS are incredibly selfish. It's all about them...always has been. THEY neglected their spouse. THEY now get to call the shots about R. Often times it's just a lot if BS. I think a lot of the BS here need to really look at how they treated their spouses before the affairs...I see my STBXW in a lot if the posts here made by BS....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lets see, how did I treat my wife before she got close to the guy in work...

Always provided a safe house and took care of my family.. Always told her I love her, how beautiful she looked, how wonderful it was to make love to her.. Always made love to her, tried to keep it interesting.. Took her places, trips, dinners, shopping.. Always there for her, through three children, all the births I was there for, all the injuries, all the hard times and good... Never abused her, never yell at her, never call her names, always value her opinion etc.. Now was I perfect, hell no.. who is? Was I neglecting some of her needs? Perhaps, but guess what... I wasn't getting all my need filled, yet somehow when I was asked to go back to a co-workers apartment for 'lunch', I managed to answer no. Did I want to? Hell yes.. but I also knew that if I went there, I'd have to live with myself and I wouldn't be able to look my wife in the eyes.. or myself in the mirror.

So the BS gets to call the shots with R, because we're the one that managed to keep the vows and not go behind our spouses back and f another person using the excuses you list above... We are the ones that managed to keep it in our pants even though we were also in a less than perfect relationship. So while they may hurt, it's all self inflicted.. and why we hurt, is also inflicted by them. THAT is why they have to do heavy lifting, and the BS deserves them to if they want a chance to stay in the relationship. 

So yea, as a BS I was horrible to my wife always buying her flowers and wanting to go to dinner, making her feel bad for cheating on me.. by being so nice, what a jerk I was.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, I don't agree. There are always extenuating circumstances.
> 
> Say the boss is stealing time from an employee by threatening job loss, if a worker doesn't work overtime, and there is no way for the worker to prove this legally.
> 
> ...


If I were your wife, I'd have told you to hit the road a long time ago.. because of your lack of remorse or ability to own your bad choices. The blameshifting thing wouldn't sit well with me, not sure how your wife puts up with it.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, I don't agree. There are always extenuating circumstances.
> 
> Say the boss is stealing time from an employee by threatening job loss, if a worker doesn't work overtime, and there is no way for the worker to prove this legally.
> 
> ...


Your analogy is misguided and just plain silly.

"A lot of BS's simply believe they have no faults. They can do no wrong things in a marriage, but if the spouse does, it's over."

Once again you generalize and shift blame to people who have been betrayed. I don't think you understand what remorse means, at all.

Are you the guy who went off about how rich you are and that women constantly throw themselves at you, initiating affairs?

And please spare us all the "lets' not hijack this thread" bit. When you make sweeping, untrue generalizations about people who have been cheated on, you're going to get called on it.

"I have said this in other posts. I love her, but I don't need her.".

Wow, your wife is one lucky lady!


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> You don't need her?


What I thought too. If he doesn't need her, and its obvious he doesn't want her, then he should set her free.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> You don't need her?


He cheated on her, thinks BS are to blame, and he doesn't need his betrayed wife.

Thanks for being here "remorseful" strayer - you really contribute a lot to this community.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Mine says all the same as beachbabes, and have been for a loooong time now. Still says no one will ever love me the way he does. Will still walk the end of the world for me if I would only let him back in. Still brings me flowers, bottles of wine...he's been relentless in his efforts, but yet I havent been able to find the way... Why is forgiveness so hard ??? 

~sammy


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, I don't agree. There are always extenuating circumstances.


Ok, there is some validity in what you say. But do not forget this; It is a two-way street. 

Something a remorseful wayward feels beside hurt is fear. Whatever the BS supposedly did to contribute to the decaying state of the marriage prior to the WS going wayward, pales to the wayward’s actions, particularly in the BS’s head. The remorseful wayward should know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it took less for them to stray than the sh!t sandwich they rammed down the BS’s throat. Whatever the BS convinces themselves needs to be done, it is as valid as any reason you had. 

Thing is, if you are a wayward using the tit-for-tat justifications, it is really scary when you do finally understand the damage and hurt you caused to your BS. If they operate the same way, the reasonable expectation is that they’ll cheat, hurt you just as bad, and just move on once they’ve collected their payment out of your flesh. Fear of what their BS’s will do, knowing how low they set that bar themselves, is the new expectations of this marriage. Don’t have expectations of others you won’t live by yourself. 

My WW is very mindful of this. She knows this, and must accept it. And she fears it. I can justify pretty much any treatment I want of her or the marriage at this point. So, she actively works so she is valued by me instead of remembered for what she was. She earns her place at my side knowing full well she doesn’t deserve it. Her fear is that I’ll wake up one day and see it the same way. So she works to have value.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

John Lee said:


> The cheater hurts, but the cheater causes his/her own hurt. So it's not as sympathetic.
> 
> I had an EA several years ago and it was painful for me in certain ways -- similar to the husband of a poster above, I felt at times trapped in the situation, like I couldn't figure out how to extricate myself and make it stop being an EA. It was actually confusing more often than it was fun. But I was also in a lot of denial and refusing to just cut it off completely as needed to be done. The bottom line is that I was the one making the decisions and causing the problem, so I don't think I deserve sympathy for the "hurt" I felt.


Yes, a cheater can hurt... However there are some types of cheaters who don't hurt, as some people do not have empathy or compassion towards others.

But people who have feelings and don't like to let people down, they are going to feel guilt pain and anguish when they view their lens into the relationship they are cheating... However many cases it's less painful to become more involved in the affair, and this is the path of least resistance and over time, since all their time focus and attention is on the affair, they will be neglectful of their spouse. Sometimes painfully so apparent to anyone who could observe it.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Healer said:


> He cheated on her, thinks BS are to blame, and he doesn't need his betrayed wife.
> 
> Thanks for being here "remorseful" strayer - you really contribute a lot to this community.


Healer:

Your attack is off topic. 

If you have a beef with me, i have invited you numerous times to PM me. 

Yet you have not!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Strayer: I firmly believe that if a person is genuinely repentant of their actions, just as you seem to be, then there is a lot that all of us can learn from your presence here. And while you have the experience in doing what you've done, I see that as a positive for those of us who were betrayed, in using to cope with our individual situations.

From your unfortunate misgivings, perhaps we can all learn a lesson or two from your continued presence here in the TAM community!*


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

My thought on the original question is that some do hurt and some do not hurt. It depends on the person and circumstance. 

The discussion of a WS not having their needs met I find interesting. My xWW didn't meet all my needs but I didn't cheat. It is a choice. 

How many BS can say all their needs were met prior to the WS cheating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Healer said:


> He cheated on her, thinks BS are to blame, and he doesn't need his betrayed wife.
> 
> Thanks for being here "remorseful" strayer - you really contribute a lot to this community.


Let's not beat up any specific person. RS's situation is his own and he's handling it as he sees fit. Whether or not we agree with it or not isn't the issue. 

I appreciate alternate perspectives as long as they can be brought into the conversation properly. 

I would say the only thing I'd hope RS can adjust in his presentation is that he's taking his personal experience with his BW and applying it to "some BS's" and making it sound like it's the norm.

Statistics show that what he presents as his situation is by far not the norm.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Look Racer:

The bottom line is either you forgive your wife and move forward or you can't. 

You need to poop or get off the pot. 

If you keep berating your WS or shaming her, or bringing up the cheating non stop, she is going to give up and either cheat again or move on. 

If you need your wife rather than just love her, that is not love, that is an unhealthy connection. 

Needing someone is not healthy. Wanting someone is. 

So if you are unhappy and cheating is a deal breaker.......move on. 

What's keeping you in limbo? Finances? That's not a good reason. 

If you can't forgive your wife's cheating, do yourself and her a favor and let her go. 

As I have mentioned, If my wife had cheated, but stopped when caught and she told me it was just sex and she had no intention of leaving me. 

I would forgive her. Simple.

BTW: I have complied with all my wife's demands. 

I won't wear a hair shirt for the rest of my life. I told her so. She understands. She acknowledges her part in our marital disconnection. 

Maybe you are totally innocent and did nothing wrong. In rare cases that is true.

Have you asked your wife what was missing in the marriage that prompted her to cheat?

As for ramming a **** sandwich down a spouses throat. My wife admits she did the same, by claiming to have transcended sex for 10 years. 

She just expected me to accept that, and be happy. She now admits she was being unfair and selfish. I admit cheating was unfair and selfish. So we are even and we are starting over. 

She and I both feel the marriage has improved in many ways. 

Personally, I don't live in fear of my wife cheating on me. If she does, I will forgive her and move on. 

As for me not deserving a place by her side, my wife doesn't feel that way and neither do I. 

If you are treating your wife as if she doesn't deserve a place by your side. YOu are creating a very unhealthy marriage for her.



Racer said:


> Ok, there is some validity in what you say. But do not forget this; It is a two-way street.
> 
> Something a remorseful wayward feels beside hurt is fear. Whatever the BS supposedly did to contribute to the decaying state of the marriage prior to the WS going wayward, pales to the wayward’s actions, particularly in the BS’s head. The remorseful wayward should know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it took less for them to stray than the sh!t sandwich they rammed down the BS’s throat. Whatever the BS convinces themselves needs to be done, it is as valid as any reason you had.
> 
> ...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Strayer: I firmly believe that if a person is genuinely repentant of their actions, just as you seem to be, then there is a lot that all of us can learn from your presence here. And while you have the experience in doing what you've done, I see that as a positive for those of us who were betrayed, in using to cope with our individual situations.
> 
> From your unfortunate misgivings, perhaps we can all learn a lesson or two from your continued presence here in the TAM community!*


In my experience it is very hard to experience the true remorse until you have lost, truly lost out on the relationship that you cheated on. This would be going into a very bad exerience where in reflection, you know you should have stayed home and not cheated.

If you cheat and go into a supportive situation, where all your gratifications are met, and somehow you guys have a "good" or a "feel good" situation, you may never experience the true regret, because you haven't had pain and suffering only the betrayed has this. You won't have full pain and suffering unless you really feel badly about hurting someone, and you still cannot feel as badly as you need to reflect upon it properly until you have pain and suffering as a result of your choice.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Racer said:


> Ok, there is some validity in what you say. But do not forget this; It is a two-way street.
> 
> Something a remorseful wayward feels beside hurt is fear. Whatever the BS supposedly did to contribute to the decaying state of the marriage prior to the WS going wayward, pales to the wayward’s actions, particularly in the BS’s head. The remorseful wayward should know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it took less for them to stray than the sh!t sandwich they rammed down the BS’s throat. Whatever the BS convinces themselves needs to be done, it is as valid as any reason you had.
> 
> ...


Racer, that is a VERY powerful statement.

Many waywards, who aren't remorseful, use justification as their tool for accepting their own actions. They justify their cheating by stating the things their BS did/does. The problem with this is it is a 2 way street.

Cheating is 
1. A total betrayal of the marital vows
2. Threatening the BS's life through possible introduction of STD's (which can be fatal)
3. Destroying parts of your child's (ren's) psyche because of the damage that cheating and divorce has on children
I could list a lot more but lets just address the big ones.

So based on that list, the BS can also play play the equal justification card and do the same things through different actions. So how would the WS feel if their BS betrayed their marriage...say financially as in stole all of the marital assets and hid it in a private account. If the BS put the WS's phsyical life and well being at risk and was also abusive to their children. What would a WS say to those actions? 

If a WS isn't TRULY remorseful in recognizing their actions, than they're saying the BS, who does those things, is justified in doing it.

Marriage isn't about keeping score of wrongs. It's about keeping score on rights and ensuring that you minimize your wrongs while forgiving your partners wrongs (within reason). Keeping score of the rights means. My wife supported me through a tough time, so I will do the same for her. My wife shows me love and affection, so I have to keep the score even by doing the same. etc. etc.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

calvin said:


> Even though my wife didn't get physical with old hs bf who is also a twice convicted felon and she met up with
> him a few times but was scared and ran,she hurts pretty damn bad for what she did.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Personally, Calvin. I wouldn't even consider and EA an affair. 

I know a lot of people disagree. 

But, frankly, I am not that insecure.

My wife can befriend anyone she wants. She can go for coffee, go for lunch, even complain about me, if she wishes. It still would not bother me. Truly. 

It may bother some, but it wouldn't bother me.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

P51Geo1980 said:


> Sure the cheater feels hurt. Many times cheaters cheat because their spouses have neglected their needs. Many of the "BS" here need to take a good hard look at how they treated their spouse BEFORE being cheated on. A lot of BS were downright neglectful and the when they get cheated in their shocked. Sure they say "he/ she should have talked to me" and blah blah blah....many of them have and the BS just didn't listen. BS may not have an active role in deciding to cheat but don't think for one minute that they're not guilty of the demise in the relationship that led to that terrible choice. I think too many time the cheater forgets about their own wants and needs during R . In many ways the cheater is much more hurt than the BS but they can't say anything because the focus is all on the BS and the hurt they feel. I haven't cheated on my wife but the way she treats me and has treated me in the past I could have easily gone down that path. Reading all the stories here I often think they the BS are incredibly selfish. It's all about them...always has been. THEY neglected their spouse. THEY now get to call the shots about R. Often times it's just a lot if BS. I think a lot of the BS here need to really look at how they treated their spouses before the affairs...I see my STBXW in a lot if the posts here made by BS....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


While I do agree that both spouses have equal share in creating an environment that can lead to cheating, you seem to only look at one side. How about this if the marriage has that many issues then why don't both people cheat, what kept one spouse from cheating even when things are bad when the other did. Issues in a marriage are very rarely one sided, and most of the BS here will say many of the same things; "I know we were not communicating enough, there were things I wasn't doing for them that I should have etc" but that should have never given the cheater the green light.
Many of the cheater stories here never say that they (the cheater) were doing everything or anything to make the marriage better and they finally just gave up went out and cheated, besides is there anyone who can say that cheating on their spouse fixed their marriage? If that was the case then everyone would be out screwing everyone else and all these messed up marriages would be perfect. Most of the cheaters on this forum will own up to their failings in the marriage the things they did wrong to foster a environment that led to their cheating.
If an adult murders another because of a messed up childhood does that make them any less guilty, no they had choices to make things different and they were to weak, selfish or just plain stupid to make the right one. 
Regardless of the circumstances in the marriage the cheater never has a valid reason for cheating *end of story*, if your marriage is so bad and you don't have the energy to fix it then leave be an adult.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Healer:
> 
> Your attack is off topic.
> 
> ...


I have no interest in having private conversations with you. You make asinine comments within threads, so it's within said threads that I call you on them.

All this bull**** aside - you are a mean spirited person who enjoys attacking and bashing people who have been destroyed by infidelity - by people like you.

I think you are a cruel and hurtful person and it really bothers me that you come to this forum and **** on betrayed spouses.

Your PM's are creepy and I will not engage with you that way. As long as you continue to be hurtful and mean on this forum - I will call you on it - in the threads you cause **** in.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> 2. Threatening the BS's life through possible introduction of STD's (which can be fatal)


Well, Dad, in my case that would have been impossible. My wife and I hadn't had sex in ten years because she claimed she had transcended sex and that it was primitive and messy.




> Marriage isn't about keeping score of wrongs. It's about keeping score on rights and ensuring that you minimize your wrongs while forgiving your partners wrongs (within reason).


Is that life according to Dad & hubby?

You are certainly entitled to live by your own philosophy. My wife tried that for ten years. It did not bode well for the marriage.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Look Racer:
> 
> The bottom line is either you forgive your wife and move forward or you can't.
> 
> ...


So here's a question for you RS,

Is it plausible, or logical, that a BS who is cheated on would or could change in their mentality towards their WS and marriage as a whole?

They may become more jaded, more critical etc., even if they stay in the marriage?

Based on your logic of acceptance and forgiveness that the BS should show the WS in the situation like you state where the BS treated the WS horribly for a long time which "caused" the cheating to happen, shouldn't the WS 
then also accept and forgive the changes that happen in the BS after the cheating?

I'm glad you and your wife worked things out. I honestly believe that the way you're being perceived isn't exactly what your "reality" is. You do come across as "un"-remorseful in your arguments, but, when I look past your individual arguments, I can see the whole picture of what you're presenting and I don't think you're totally wrong.

BS's are responsible for the state of the marriage, just like the WS. Yes, if a BS treats their WS horribly for an extended period, they're introducing an environment which will make it "easier" for the WS to cheat. The cheating is still the WS's 100% issue, it's their choice and they could've done many other things, including presenting divorce papers instead of cheating. But still. And yes, if R is going to happen, it needs to be an "all-in" approach from everyone.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Strayer: I firmly believe that if a person is genuinely repentant of their actions, just as you seem to be, then there is a lot that all of us can learn from your presence here. And while you have the experience in doing what you've done, I see that as a positive for those of us who were betrayed, in using to cope with our individual situations.
> 
> From your unfortunate misgivings, perhaps we can all learn a lesson or two from your continued presence here in the TAM community!*


Do you actually read what he types?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

> Healer said:
> 
> 
> > I have no interest in having private conversations with you. You make asinine comments within threads, so it's within said threads that I call you on them.
> ...


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Personally, Calvin. I wouldn't even consider and EA an affair.
> 
> I know a lot of people disagree.
> 
> ...


Remorseful: I respect your perspective on many things, but it's obvious you've never been the BS in a true EA (there's a lot more involved than coffee and lunch). The WS in a real EA actually falls in love with the AP, sex or no.

To return to the topic of the thread: My W, who recently laid her cards (most of them at least) on the table about her long-term EA is definitely hurting. She thinks she's more worthless than dog s**t. I believe she is truly remorseful, and I see it as my job now to provide her with a safe and loving environment so that she can regain her self-esteem. We cannot be true marriage partners again until that happens.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, Dad, in my case that would have been impossible. My wife and I hadn't had sex in ten years because she claimed she had transcended sex and that it was primitive and messy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your taking your specific situation and trying to argue against a general concept. Doesn't work that way. It works for you individually, but not as a general philosophy. Obviously if your wife has become a nun, you can't expose her to an STD, but that's not the norm. Most WS's still have sex with the BS's, just not often. So yes, when you cheat, you are threatening your BS with a possible life threatening STD.

How did your wife live by "life according to Dad&Hubby". She didn't obviously or you wouldn't have cheated. If she did, you would've been having sex because she would've felt compelled to do more of the good things for a marriage because of the good things you do for the marriage. You're obviously not understanding "life according to Dad&Hubby"


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Healer said:
> 
> 
> > I have no interest in having private conversations with you. You make asinine comments within threads, so it's within said threads that I call you on them.
> ...


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Dad:

Your arguments are becoming circular. 

All your questions have been answered in spades in posts in this thread. 

Basically, marriage is a two way street. Period. 

If you can't accept that, and you continue to berate, belittle and shame your WS, the reconciliation is a false one.



Dad&Hubby said:


> So here's a question for you RS,
> 
> Is it plausible, or logical, that a BS who is cheated on would or could change in their mentality towards their WS and marriage as a whole?
> 
> ...


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

> I didn't PM you - that's what I just said, that I will not engage you that way, because your PM's are creepy


That's what I thought. As you state you didn't PM me. Thank you for clarifying that issue. 




> Did I heal my marriage? No - let me make this clear again, because it's obviously a little hard for you To grasp: I AM DIVORCING MY CHEATING WIFE, NOT HEALING HER OR MY MARRIAGE.


[/QUOTE]

I think you are doing the right thing, by letting your wife go. Obviously cheating was a deal breaker for you. 

As I have stated numerous times. If my wife had cheated, but her intention was just sex and not replacing me with a new husband. Pfttttt. It would be no problem for me to forgive her. 

Not everyone feels the same, I get that. So?


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

remorseful strayer said:


> Look Racer:
> 
> The bottom line is either you forgive your wife and move forward or you can't.
> 
> ...


Can you define "needing" in regards to your wife.

on edit: never mind, I get it. Just read your last post.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Philat said:


> Remorseful: BS in a true EA (there's a lot more involved than coffee and lunch). The WS in a real EA actually falls in love with the AP, sex or no.


Yes. I agree philat: It is very threatening if the person having the EA claims to have fallen in love with the OP.



> I believe she is truly remorseful, and I see it as my job now to provide her with a safe and loving environment so that she can regain her self-esteem. We cannot be true marriage partners again until that happens.


Philat: 

Your wife does sound regretful and sad. I have no doubt, if you can move past this issue, and going forward, trust but verify, then you two will be okay. 

Your wife is lucky to have someone as insightful as you.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Let's not beat up any specific person. RS's situation is his own and he's handling it as he sees fit. Whether or not we agree with it or not isn't the issue.
> 
> I appreciate alternate perspectives as long as they can be brought into the conversation properly.
> 
> ...


"I would say the only thing I'd hope RS can adjust in his presentation is that he's taking his personal experience with his BW and applying it to "some BS's" and making it sound like it's the norm."

Yes - this and his antagonistic jabs at BS's are why I am calling him out specifically. If another poster does the same - I will call them on it too. Nobody is "beating him up". He seems to enjoy what he's doing. It's great he's doing "what he sees fit". I don't care what he does or doesn't do with his own situation. He constantly makes accusatory and blame shifting blanket statements towards people who have been cheated on, and it is causing anguish for some people here. It's inflammatory and mean spirited. We don't need that here.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> That's what I thought. As you state you didn't PM me. Thank you for clarifying that issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You clearly needed clarification as you said you got some "cowardly PM's so maybe you did PM me". 

I don't care if cheating is a deal breaker for someone or not - that's their business. My issue with you is your inflammatory, derogatory blanket statements towards betrayed spouses. You seem to actually get off on the pain people feel here - and you yourself have caused such pain in real life. 

Does it not bother you that you are causing people on here pain? Stupid question - you had no problem doing that to your wife, why would you care about anonymous people on the internet?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

FourtyPlus said:


> Can you define "needing" in regards to your wife.


Hi Fourtyplus:

Is this a serious question or an attempt to instigate an attack.

Let me know.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Epic Cat Fight (cat's horror) - YouTube

I think this is what this thread is turning into


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Remorseful stayer, 

Your words are true.Like my dad use to say, "shuffle your feet, lose your seat!"


It's just the head,heart,mind aren't all on the same page at the same time. Some of us move through this mess quickly,w clarity, others so confused. Its all a process. And we're lucky to have this community. 

~sammy


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

remorseful strayer said:


> Hi Fourtyplus:
> 
> Is this a serious question or an attempt to instigate an attack.
> 
> Let me know.


It was a serious question and I just added to it "never mind, I get it, just read your last post".

You don't need. Sex and emotion aren't even in the same zip code. You are black and white, clear cut, logical.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

FourtyPlus said:


> It was a serious question and I just added to it "never mind, I get it, just read your last post".
> 
> You don't need. Sex and emotion aren't even in the same zip code. You are black and white, clear cut, logical.


Actually, that's an incorrect assumption. Totally off the mark.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Your taking your specific situation and trying to argue against a general concept. Doesn't work that way. It works for you individually, but not as a general philosophy.


Maybe you are right. 

What about you? 

Do you think perhaps your situation works for you INDIVIUALLY, but not as a general philosophy?

How about this as a general philosophy: If you truly want to reconcile with your wife, then you have to let go of the affair issue and move on. 

Trust but verify going forward. 

If you can't let it go after about two years, then your reconciliation is not a true one on your side. 

So, be honest with yourself and your wife and let her go.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> I wouldn't even consider and EA an affair.
> 
> I know a lot of people disagree.
> 
> ...


*I would greatly think that, in this regard, that you are indeed the exception much rather than the rule. I greatly feel that in the vast majority of EA's, that the WS has sold out their internal emotions to their AP, fastly leading to the PA.

Given that, all that the PA really is, is just a bonding consummation of the EA, whereby the cheating partners cement their EA simply by joining their sex organs, much like sex is the bonding element of a marriage ~ nothing more, nothing less!*


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

remorseful strayer said:


> Actually, that's an incorrect assumption. Totally off the mark.


That's how you come across to me.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> I would greatly think that, in this regard, that you are indeed the exception much rather than the rule. I greatly feel that in the vast majority of EA's, that the WS has sold out their internal emotions to their AP, fastly leading to the PA.



But in the attempt to say he isn't that insecure, and others are, he is comparing apples and oranges.

In his attempt to say he isn't insecure about his wife doing those things, that is his wife having a male friend. Not an EA.

Now if he is saying he doesn't mind his wife falling in love with someone else, then ok. But of course HE is going to say that. He cheated on her and has already stated that he doesn't need her.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> That's how you come across to me.


have you noticed he didn't answer your question? ...... hmmmm ....


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Personally, Calvin. I wouldn't even consider and EA an affair.
> 
> I know a lot of people disagree.
> 
> ...


What you are describing isn't an EA.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

user_zero said:


> have you noticed he didn't answer your question? ...... hmmmm ....


that's alright, I did edit/add to the question "never mind, I get it", so no reason to answer it anymore.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Dad:
> 
> Your arguments are becoming circular.
> 
> ...


RS when an argument is made that you can't refute, calling it "circular" doesn't dismiss it. 

Good deflection though, I like how you didn't answer the questions.

This has turned into a classic high school level debate so I'm going to see my way out.

I've supported RS's personal opinions and situations and I've also shown some of the other perspectives. I've tried to differentiate statistical norms which are what carry the most weight, while also recognizing individual circumstances can vary. But I also won't allow "the one exception" be allowed to make the norms carry less weight.

Good luck to you all and I'm glad you feel your R is working Remorseful Strayer, because for you, that's all that matters. But don't try to dismiss others' circumstances or try to make their situations seem light or insignificant because they differ from yours.

Statistically, your situation is not the norm. It doesn't make it any less important, but try to recognize that when discussing "the norm".


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

> Dad&Hubby said:
> 
> 
> > RS when an argument is made that you can't refute, calling it "circular" doesn't dismiss it.
> ...


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> > I answered the questions. You simply don't want to accept them, or perhaps you failed to read them.
> >
> > Ad hominem insults don't make for a healthy debate. They are amusing, but that's about it. I hope you don't argue this way with family.
> >
> ...


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *I would greatly think that, in this regard, that you are indeed the exception much rather than the rule. I greatly feel that in the vast majority of EA's, that the WS has sold out their internal emotions to their AP, fastly leading to the PA.
> 
> Given that, all that the PA really is, is just a bonding consummation of the EA, whereby the cheating partners cement their EA simply by joining their sex organs, much like sex is the bonding element of a marriage ~ nothing more, nothing less!*


That's a good description of an EA where the people fall in love. 

It doesn't apply in all cases. 

EAs are a slippery slope in some cases, but not all. 

As I mentioned, If my wife had a PA and dropped him and wanted to save the marriage, it would *not* bother me. 

It would bother me, if she fell in love with someone else and did not attempt to save the marriage later. But just sex.......well, it's just sex.

One of the reasons I responded to the OWs pushy advances was because she was totally unacceptable to me as a lover. 

Personally, I didn't even like her. She was just sexually aggressive and available.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Healer said:


> remorseful strayer said:
> 
> 
> > " I hope you don't argue this way with family." Wow.
> ...


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

remorseful strayer said:


> > I answered the questions. You simply don't want to accept them, or perhaps you failed to read them.
> >
> > Ad hominem insults don't make for a healthy debate. They are amusing, but that's about it. I hope you don't argue this way with family.
> >
> ...


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

> I haven't reported your unprovoked attacks. I don't want you banned.
> 
> I find you intriguing. Please carry on.


Oh please - feel free. My posts are only responses to your unprovoked attacks on the wounded people of this forum. Have at 'er!

BTW - you should let your wife read your posts on here.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> *That's a good description of an EA where the people fall in love.
> 
> It doesn't apply in all cases.
> 
> ...


*Greatly reminds me of some adventurous college coeds from what seems like many eons ago!*


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> One of the reasons I responded to the OWs pushy advances was because she was totally unacceptable to me as a lover.
> 
> Personally, I didn't even like her. She was just sexually aggressive and available.


No. Words.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

remorseful strayer said:


> Look Racer:
> 
> The bottom line is either you forgive your wife and move forward or you can't.
> 
> ...


Um... you don’t know my story. Even your own justifications work for me... sexless. I’ve eaten that sandwich too. 

And you still misunderstand; This fear is in her head and completely justifiable. There’s the irony. Because we, in their shoes, would not have done what they did and they can’t really believe it. It is a legitimate fear. 

To put it in perspective since you are a fWH... A BS, in R, must accept one very important thing to stay married: *Adultery is not a dealbreaker in their relationship with you.* Let that sink in... If it was a dealbreaker, they can’t move forward with the marriage. Two way street. Your actions forced them to face the demon in the mirror whereas they may have never been tested before. It haunts a lot of BS’s... that tearing of our moral fabric to allow this in a marriage.

Doesn’t mean they will cheat. Means they too are capable of justifying and rationalizing that there are times when it is forgivable. It should be a legitimate fear every wayward in R has. It is a fact about your betrayed spouse. Something you may not have seriously thought about or questioned. And you just handed them every reason to do so and it would be no worse than you did.

I don’t have to beat her over the head with this. Someday, someone may test me... Your own perfect storm theory. And you know how you got there; What you don’t know is what it will take for me to get to that same place and make that choice. You just know how easy of a choice it was to make... those are your memories and by now you’ve recognized that you and I don’t think alike.. I’ve yet to face them and all you really know is; Adultery is not a dealbreaker under the right circumstances. 

Enjoy those thoughts.... I bet your BS's enjoys them quite often too.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

treyvion said:


> In my experience it is very hard to experience the true remorse until you have lost, truly lost out on the relationship that you cheated on. This would be going into a very bad exerience where in reflection, you know you should have stayed home and not cheated.
> 
> If you cheat and go into a supportive situation, where all your gratifications are met, and somehow you guys have a "good" or a "feel good" situation, you may never experience the true regret, because you haven't had pain and suffering only the betrayed has this. You won't have full pain and suffering unless you really feel badly about hurting someone, and you still cannot feel as badly as you need to reflect upon it properly until you have pain and suffering as a result of your choice.



Actually I was not a natural tit-for-tatter. But it is one of the reasons I thought that some of the more positive and assertive methods of retribution or righting the wrongs, would ensure that some consequence and negative feedback is recieved as a result of the infraction.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, Dad, in my case that would have been impossible. My wife and I hadn't had sex in ten years because she claimed she had transcended sex and that it was primitive and messy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

x598 said:


> you go off and cheat and then try and blame her. :rofl:


His Modus operandi and basis for all the "advice" he gives here.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Personally, Calvin. I wouldn't even consider and EA an affair.
> 
> I know a lot of people disagree.
> 
> ...


 No,she told him she loved him,tried to get me to leave the house and was extremely
cruel to me for four months,lots of text and calls also.
Met up with him at a KMart parking lot a few times,got scared and left.
It was an affair.
I have no idea who that woman was for those four months,she lloked like my wife
but wasn't.
If it would have gone further or she wasn't so damn remorseful I would not have stayed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Racer said:


> Adultery is not a dealbreaker in their relationship with you.


My hubs has told me this over and over, if roles were reverse he'ld have no issue as he loves me so . He'ld understand, because our history would speak for what our relationship was really all about. 

That he would be the man to understand and work on the marriage and not want to walk away and be unforgiving as he feels I have been! 

He has turned this whole freaken thing around... 

Amazing how messy affairs are ... 

~sammy


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Racer said:


> Um... you don’t know my story. Even your own justifications work for me... sexless. I’ve eaten that sandwich too.
> 
> And you still misunderstand; This fear is in her head and completely justifiable. There’s the irony. Because we, in their shoes, would not have done what they did and they can’t really believe it. It is a legitimate fear.
> 
> ...


What an awesome post. With some edits, it should be a sticky.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Strayer,

You contend that the reason you had your affair was because you wife refused sex for 10 years. While I consider that very poor justification considering the other options you no doubt had we obviously have differing opinions on that. So my question is if your affair was caused by your wife's refusal to have sex with you, what issues did you have that caused your wife to refuse to have sex? After all, there must have been some reason she rejected you. Did you fail to give her the emotional support that women need in order to feel connected to a man? Were you emotionally unavailable? Were you physically unavailable? Did you work long hours causing a rift in your marriage? Did you let yourself go physically so that she was no longer attracted to you? So if her failure in the marriage led to your cheating what failure of yours led to her celibacy?


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

in RS's own words:



> My wife and I hadn't had sex in ten years because she claimed she had transcended sex and that it was primitive and messy.


if you put up with that for ten years, YOU have a problem.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

x598 said:


> in RS's own words:
> if you put up with that for ten years, YOU have a problem.


don't be so harsh on him.  read his biography on his profile.
he cheated with several prostitutes (ONS) and when his wife booted him out. he promised her no more prostitute. this time he cheated with his wife's best friend who btw was their neighbor too (I'm not sure about this part). 

he is such a nice guy. 

ps: I don't think he would delete/change his biography on his profile. after all he is a lot more secure than each of us.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

user_zero said:


> don't be so harsh on him.  read his biography on his profile.
> he cheated with several prostitutes (ONS) and when his wife booted him out. he promised her no more prostitute. this time he cheated with his wife's best friend who btw was their neighbor too (I'm not sure about this part).
> 
> he is such a nice guy.
> ...


Damn, I needed a laugh today, thanks zero!


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

user_zero said:


> don't be so harsh on him.  read his biography on his profile.
> he cheated with several prostitutes (ONS) and when his wife booted him out. he promised her no more prostitute. this time he cheated with his wife's best friend who btw was their neighbor too (I'm not sure about this part).
> 
> he is such a nice guy.
> ...


 Well why did'nt you say that before user?
God I'm stupid.
Carry on all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

calvin said:


> Well why did'nt you say that before user?


yeah you're right. it's all my fault. I guess by his standard I deserve to be cheated on, too. 


calvin said:


> God I'm stupid.
> Carry on all.


You are a good honest person. and you assume everyone else is too. that's not make you stupid. it makes you a normal human being. (who is a fan of bears ... oh sorry .... BEARS) 

ps: user is my first name and zero is my last name. that's why Calvin called me user.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

user_zero said:


> yeah you're right. it's all my fault. I guess by his standard I deserve to be cheated on, too.
> 
> You are a good honest person. and you assume everyone else is too. that's not make you stupid. it makes you a normal human being. (who is a fan of bears ... oh sorry .... BEARS)
> 
> ps: user is my first name and zero is my last name. that's Calvin called me user.


 Yeah well when it comes to the Bears I'm a total idiot there but I'm a happy idiot!
Hey,I got the Hawks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Does the cheater hurt too?*



user_zero said:


> don't be so harsh on him.  read his biography on his profile.
> he cheated with several prostitutes (ONS) and when his wife booted him out. he promised her no more prostitute. this time he cheated with his wife's best friend who btw was their neighbor too (I'm not sure about this part).
> 
> he is such a nice guy.
> ...


Well he may not really be remorseful but at least he's honest.....maybe.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

user_zero said:


> yeah you're right. it's all my fault. I guess by his standard I deserve to be cheated on, too.
> 
> You are a good honest person. and you assume everyone else is too. that's not make you stupid. it makes you a normal human being. (who is a fan of bears ... oh sorry .... BEARS)
> 
> ps: user is my first name and zero is my last name. that's why Calvin called me user.


 Ok,zero it is,I like that better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

bfree said:


> Well he may not really be remorseful but at least he's honest.....maybe.


Maybe but too whom?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

calvin said:


> Ok,zero it is,I like that better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


whatever you say coach.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

user_zero said:


> whatever you say coach.


Uz?
What ever you prefer bro.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> That's a good description of an EA where the people fall in love.
> 
> It doesn't apply in all cases.
> 
> ...


You think sex is just sex, and you will drop your drawers for the first pootie that is available, even if you don't like her and she's unacceptable to you as a lover... You might want to answer bfree's question, that I eluded to earlier. What did you do to make your wife not want you in a sexual way? Was it because of this selfish attitude, and lack of value on sexual relations in a marriage? Perhaps she knows you'll put your thingy in anything, and was afraid she'd catch something? Have you talked to her about it? I hope these questions don't trigger you.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> remorseful strayer said:
> 
> 
> > An EA involves love, or sneaking a romantic relationship that hasn't gotten physical yet.
> ...


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> I agree, an emotional affair has to involve telling each other they are in love.
> 
> Going for coffee, or even lunching together, is not an EA in my book, although based on the posts here, some APPEAR to think they are.
> 
> Yes. For a true emotional affair, both or at least one need to be expressing their love and sexual interest in each other.


Where do we get a copy of your book?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

> Have you talked to her about it? I


Yes. Extensively, and so has the marriage counselor, her IC and the sex therapist. 

So nice of you to inquire.

Your ongoing interest in me and my personal life is intriguing.

PM me if you want personal details.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Yes. Extensively, and so has the marriage counselor, her IC and the sex therapist.
> 
> So nice of you to inquire.
> 
> ...


:lol:

Don't PM him - things will get creepy.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Calvin:

Just to clarify this relationship:



> he cheated with his wife's best friend


The OW befriended MY WIFE. She later taunted my wife by tellig her she only PRETENDED TO BE HER BEST FRIEND, so that she could mine for information about weaknesses in the marriage. 

The OW actually told my wife that she herself was no longer interested in sex. 

My wife than shared that she lost interest in sex because she felt it was messy and primitive.

That's when the OW made her moves. 

A women who befriends someone to learn their weakness is truly sick and sad. 

A women that uses sex for manipulative means is also sad. 

My OW mentioned many times that she was no longer interested in sex with her husband because he did not earn enough money and she felt he wasn't masculine enough to ever earn a high income. 

She is still lying to her husband. 

When my wife called him, instead of fessing up, she denied it and she told her husband my wife was a crazy jealous paranoid Betch. 

He fell for that.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

russell28 said:


> You think sex is just sex, and you will drop your drawers for the first pootie that is available, even if you don't like her and she's unacceptable to you as a lover... You might want to answer bfree's question, that I eluded to earlier. What did you do to make your wife not want you in a sexual way? Was it because of this selfish attitude, and lack of value on sexual relations in a marriage? Perhaps she knows you'll put your thingy in anything, and was afraid she'd catch something? Have you talked to her about it? I hope these questions don't trigger you.


I'm looking but I don't see a response from strayer on this most excellent set of questions save the one about talking to her. hmm.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Healer said:


> :lol:
> 
> Don't PM him - things will get creepy.


You never PMed me. Stop telling tales out of school. 

Only cowards do that. 

If you are using another name to PM me, and I have received at least one rude email, Then you are breaking the rules. 

Why do you keep lying about PMing me. 

Do you lie all the time, or only when you want to hide the truth?

Or maybe you lie to yourself about telling lies.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Calvin:
> 
> Just to clarify this relationship:
> 
> ...


So why didn't you tell her husband the truth and back your wife up? Why did you leave her out on the ledge?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Calvin:
> 
> Just to clarify this relationship:
> 
> ...


Clearly you were powerless over your OW's advances. Like I said - none of us here fault you for cheating. You had no choice. And you were entitled to it. You were dealing with a sad, sick woman with the mental prowess of Kreskin. A guy can only be so good looking, so rich, so powerful, so irresistibly intoxicating to the opposite sex, before his will power is all but overtaken and he has no choice but to decimate his marriage vows.

We feel for you brother.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> You never PMed me. Stop telling tales out of school.
> 
> Only cowards do that.
> 
> ...


Where did I type that I pm'd you? I RECEIVED PM's from you - that were creepy and made me feel all icky inside.

No need for me to lie - I'll tell you exactly how I feel.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Yes. Extensively, and so has the marriage counselor, her IC and the sex therapist.
> 
> So nice of you to inquire.
> 
> ...


When someone replies to you on an Intrawebz message forumz, it's not them being 'intrigued' with you.. that's them replying to you on a message forum. There's a difference.

Also.. the "PM me" thing.. very creepy...


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Calvin:
> 
> Just to clarify this relationship:
> 
> ...


 About a year ago I was training a woman on the mill,she had to go back to work,
she busted her H in his third cheat,she saw Tams on my phone.
I told her my story,she told me hers,she could see I was struggling pretty
bad at the time.
Then the compliments came and her bring me in food.
I saw what was happening,I put a stop to it.
The only person who can take advantage of me is me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

calvin said:


> The only person who can take advantage of me is me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Free will? Go figure!!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Healer said:


> remorseful strayer said:
> 
> 
> > Where do we get a copy of your book?
> ...


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Whoa, that's weird. You quoted RS, but it says my name.


RS has trouble with the quote button. I'll fix it up.


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