# 1st Post. 1st Marriage. Lots of concerns.



## SamsungUser86 (Apr 22, 2013)

I feel as if I have been rather fortunate in my life. I had a good childhood. Parents did not have a lot of money but we always got along well for the most part and we had fun however we could as a family. Was shy throughout school years but really opened up after highschool and matured greatly and have a well rounded look on life. I have realistic expectations and some good close friends. Had a few relationships with really attractive girls but they were always either too immature, way too much into drama, or just left me for some other ********* who treated them worse than me. My parents taught me to be honest, and chivalrous. My parents have been happily married for over 26 years. I always think of my significant other first. I put others before myself, and do everything out of empathy and love for my feeling human brothers and sisters. 

Now to my fiance. Rough childhood. Her grandpa (mom's side) beat her grandma senseless, and was a felon who served 10 years. Was a pedophile who molested my fiance's mother when she was small. After he got knowledge of the police coming to his house to arrest him, he hung himself. Fiance has always been emotional about not ever really having a relationship with her grandfather. My fiance's parents got pregnant with her when they were both 16. Didn't get married until second child was born. Both of my fiance's parents had problems. Both drank a lot, partied, and did drugs. CPS has been out to their house over half a dozen times while they all lived together. My fiance ended up almost raising her 3 siblings because the parents could not or would not. Through all the stress of her family she lived with and her boyfriend's abuse (more on that later), she attempted to kill herself after taking a bunch of pills. After my fiance's father went off the chain one night and strangled my fiance, she called the cops on him and he was arrested. Her mom kicked her out and she ended up moving into her boyfriend's house. 

This is where her terror started. She had already been dating this guy for 2-3 years when she moved in with him at his parents' house. He was incredibly abusive to her. If she ate when he wasn't there, he would beat her. If she hung out with her friends at times he didn't allow, he would beat her. She messed up her driver's test he dislocated her jaw from punching her so hard. He beat her when her younger sister was in the room next door. He pummeled her to the ground, kicking her and punching her in her face. After moving in with him he started to rape her. She would wake up at random times at night to him raping her. She broke up with him and moved to her college's dorm. He would continue to stalk her and rape her by getting into the. room through her stupid foreign exchange student room-mate. 

He basically controlled everything about her life. She lost a lot of weight because of the way he controlled when and what she ate. After going through this horror for a year, she became pregnant with this guy's child and bought a plane ticket to my state to escape from him. The pregnancy was cancelled through miscarriage. 

That is most of her past that I can speak of without making this way too long. Anyway, we met each other on Match.com about a year after all this happened to her. Now it has been almost 4 years together and it has had some serious ups and downs. Bad mood swings, frequent feelings of depression and loneliness. 

Through my encouragement she had gone to see a psychiatrist and a sex therapist and now after almost 5 months she has some diagnosis. She has PTSD, OCD-tendencies, and bipolar. She is on two different medications as of right now because the right "****tail" is being perfected. 

So anyway, I have showed extreme patience with her through the past 4 years. Done everything that I can to see to it that she gets the help she needs. picking up extra hours at work so we can afford the $100/session for the therapist, and $80/month to see the psychiatrist. I dropped out of school when she was at her lowest and needed me. I've sold almost all of my belongings so we could have money. I've sacrificed a lot and I keep telling myself that the day is darkest right before the sun rises... that some time soon everything will be okay. 

Our sex life suffers lately. She has gained over 60 pounds over the last year. She was a size 6-8 before moving down here, and is now a size 16-18. When we started dating she had long blond hair, now she has short dark red hair. She has grown facial hair on her chin from Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome which was just diagnosed a month ago because of the weight gain, hair growth, and pelvic pain she experiences. 

I have tried approaching her about eating healthier and being more active but I always get a excuse or a argument because it reminds her of when her exboyfriend controlled her weight and food. I used to be such a active person. I had lost weight and was getting ripped. And now i've gained over 60 pounds myself. 

How can I be excited about a wedding when she looks like this? I know that sounds shallow but it's true. I can't hide that fact anymore. everything I liked about her looks when we got together is completely gone. When there is so much stuff rolling around my head about everything that has happened over the last 3+ years? When she refuses to take responsibility for her health and well-being?

I can already predict what everybody will say. Just leave her. She is too much. Find somebody who is more balanced and can appreciate you... but you know what, what kind of planet would this be if we gave up on those who need love the most? When we turn out back on those who have been betrayed by this world. Her therapist assures me that everything will be okay if we stick to treatment, but it's hard to see over the mountain right now. I want to be happy for life again. I want to regain my independence again. I want us to be happy together.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Do you think that marriage is about finding a mate with the most baggage and agreeing to spend the rest of your life with them? Do you really think she is marriage material? If you do then find a church or some other organizations and take pre marital class. Ask the instructor for an assessment of your chances for a successful marriage. Then talk over the advice with your SO and go from there. 

Here's food for thought. Any issues you have going into marriage are likely to escalate after marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

In a word. Run! A marriage starting out like this will only end in disaster. My opinion anyway.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I have a few concerns about your post, SU. 

It sounds like you're a decent guy, and your fiance has had a raw deal in life. As a person who comes from a similar background and spent many, many years in therapy and later became a drug and alcohol counselor, I can tell you that you're in for a rough road that may or may not ever end. 

While your question about what kind of world this would be if people gave up on their loved ones is an admirable one, I hope you'll consider what you are signing on for.

Your lady's entire existence that has taught her how to "see" the world will have to be undone in order for her to develop an enduring intimate relationship that is based on mutual affection and trust. At a very deep level, she believes she is unworthy and the world is an unsafe place.

There will always be a part of her that wants to believe otherwise, but it may be decades before she ever does reach self-acceptance, even with counseling and medications all the while. You can expect a life with her to be filled with power struggles. 

A percentage of people who have lived the way she has develop bipolar AND borderline personality disorder. I hope you'll do some research and have a frank discussion with her counselor to see if this may be present. Sad to say, mental health professionals sometimes will encourage patients to continue to see them even if they know they cannot help them or if they aren't sure of how to help them.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

How old are the two of you?

She is certainly bringing a ton of baggage to this marriage 

If I were you I'd insist on some very intense counseling BEFORE the wedding date is set in stone

Sorry but I think the two of you are setting yourselves up for failure
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

OP,

It is time to give up the Knight in Shining Armor routine. You cannot save her because she does not know if she wants to be saved at this point. 

Give yourself a chance and move on with your life. She is not the only woman available to you and there is nothing heroic or even loving about you staying with her at this point. 

Being engaged does not mean you just automatically get married. This is the period where you work to find out if choosing a life together is a logical step. How is that working out at this point?

What steps is she taking to help herself?


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## SamsungUser86 (Apr 22, 2013)

RClawson said:


> OP,
> 
> It is time to give up the Knight in Shining Armor routine. You cannot save her because she does not know if she wants to be saved at this point.
> 
> ...


She is seeing a therapist twice a month because that's all we can afford, and she is seeing a psychiatrist to regulate her medication once a month. We are both still in school and both going full time. We recently moved in with my parents to save money while we are in school. 

The thing is that despite all of her problems, she is very highly functioning even when feeling depressed. She can be the kindest person in the world and also the most stubborn person in the world. We joke and wrestle and love each other. A lot of the time it is difficult, but that's because this stage in her life is difficult. She is healing her wounds from the past and mourning what has happened to her. She is experiencing emotions she never has before. She even experienced her first orgasm with me. Even her therapist said that it is good she is doing this now instead of later, because most women keep this stuff bottled up until they're 40 and then it all comes out at once later in life and makes things even more difficult. 

I think that in today's world people give up on relationships too easily which is why I see so many miserable people here. As frustrated and depressed I can feel at times... and even quite hopeless... I know that she is making the most effort right now in her mental health so that she can keep me in her life. I have told her before that if ever everything gets too much for me to handle, I will walk away. She knows she needs help now which is why she is trying like she is. She is trying to take responsibility for her life for the first time. She is getting out and finally doing well in school. There have been many positive changes in her life and I have pushed her along the way to always keep striving to do better because I can see who she is striving to be and the life that she wants for herself and us, but it's not easy for me. I have to put my needs on the back-burner sometimes, but at the same time I don't think that that is a terrible thing. You sacrifice for the ones you love. You fight for what is good in this world. Your happiness depends entirely on your attitude.

Oh and btw, I am 27 and she is 24.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

SamsungUser86 said:


> I think that in today's world people give up on relationships too easily which is why I see so many miserable people here. As frustrated and depressed I can feel at times... and even quite hopeless... I know that she is making the most effort right now in her mental health so that she can keep me in her life. I have told her before that if ever everything gets too much for me to handle, I will walk away. She knows she needs help now which is why she is trying like she is. She is trying to take responsibility for her life for the first time. She is getting out and finally doing well in school. There have been many positive changes in her life and I have pushed her along the way to always keep striving to do better because I can see who she is striving to be and the life that she wants for herself and us, but it's not easy for me. I have to put my needs on the back-burner sometimes, but at the same time I don't think that that is a terrible thing. You sacrifice for the ones you love. You fight for what is good in this world. Your happiness depends entirely on your attitude.
> 
> Oh and btw, I am 27 and she is 24.


You putting your needs on the back burner is going to bite you in the ass later down the line. The dynamic of this relationship is ALL ABOUT HER, and that is what she will be used to. So what happens once she is all straightened out? Do you honestly believe that it will be "your turn", and she is going to suddenly tune in to what YOU want and what YOU need? That wont happen, because you are teaching her RIGHT NOW that your needs dont matter. This wont be a partnership, you are setting yourself up to be "yes dear-ing" her for the rest of your life. I admire your moral conviction, but you must be realistic.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

SamsungUser86 said:


> She is seeing a therapist twice a month because that's all we can afford, and she is seeing a psychiatrist to regulate her medication once a month. We are both still in school and both going full time. We recently moved in with my parents to save money while we are in school.
> 
> The thing is that despite all of her problems, she is very highly functioning even when feeling depressed. She can be the kindest person in the world and also the most stubborn person in the world. We joke and wrestle and love each other. A lot of the time it is difficult, but that's because this stage in her life is difficult. She is healing her wounds from the past and mourning what has happened to her. She is experiencing emotions she never has before. She even experienced her first orgasm with me. Even her therapist said that it is good she is doing this now instead of later, because most women keep this stuff bottled up until they're 40 and then it all comes out at once later in life and makes things even more difficult.
> 
> ...


SU86,

That is all well and good but you do have the "Knight Syndrome" so call it what you may. By the way the misery you see on this board, in the vast majority of cases, is from people who have fought for their relationships and still lost or those who have been blindsided by betrayal. 

Your wife's therapist is painting a great picture of her getting healed and who knows maybe the therapist is the greatest of all time but I tell you that you need to prepare yourself for the fact that your SO will be coping with this emotionally for the rest of your lives and remember you are likely going to add children to the equation. Add that dynamic and hormone adjustment and no one on God's green earth can project how that will be. I for one would say the odds are against you. 

Am I negative? No. I think your attitude is noteworthy. I come from a very solid background just like yours. I have been married for 27 years to a brilliant woman, who I adore, have two great kids and here I am on this board seeking advice on and off because I struggle with certain things that would seem miniscule to what you are considering taking on for a lifetime.

By the way I am 50 I have lived a little and I am just beginning to figure life out and coming to terms with the decisions I have made in it. I was an ecclesiastical leader and counseled many. Some in situations similar to yours. I would counsel you again to prepare for a chaotic life with many extreme highs and lows. If you get into this for life own your decision for life!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SU86, I agree with Kathy that you are describing a woman who may have BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) as well as bipolar. Indeed, a recent study (pub. 2008) found that roughly half of bipolar sufferers also have full-blown BPD. 

The distinction between bipolar and BPD is important because the latter is far far more difficult to treat. Whereas bipolar can usually be treated successfully with medication, there is no medication on earth that can make a dent in BPD -- which typically requires many years of intensive therapy. 

I therefore suggest you read my description of 12 differences between the behaviors of bipolar sufferers and BPDers. It is in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/59344-confused.html#post1175425. I am not a psychologist. My description is based on my experiences when living -- for 15 years -- with a BPDer exW and my bipolar-1 foster son.


> What kind of planet would this be if we gave up on those who need love the most?


If your W has strong BPD traits, you cannot heal her by loving her. The problem is that a BPDer has two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- both of which lie on the VERY SAME spectrum. This means you are always in a lose-lose situation because, as you move closer to reduce her abandonment fear, you will unavoidably trigger the engulfment fear (i.e., her fragile ego will feel suffocated and controlled by your strong personality). 

Similarly, as you back away to avoid engulfing her, she will start feeling the abandonment fear. The result is that, no matter how close or far away you stand, you will unavoidably trigger one of her two fears (if she is a BPDer). This is why trying to heal a BPDer by loving her is as counterproductive as trying to heal a burn patient by hugging her.


> The thing is that despite all of her problems, she is very highly functioning even when feeling depressed. She can be the kindest person in the world.


Being high functioning does NOT rule out BPD. On the contrary, most BPDers are high functioning, which means that they interact very well with total strangers, business associates, and casual friends. The reason is that none of those people pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy that could cause engulfment.

This is why many BPDers can become very successful professionals such as professors, medical doctors, social workers, firemen, nurses, psychologists, and actors. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved and successful women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD, if their biographers are to be believed.


> She has PTSD, OCD-tendencies, and bipolar.


Significantly, all three of those disorders are Axis 1 disorders, which means they are covered by insurance because they generally are treatable with medication. BPD and other PDs, however, are Axis 2 disorders which nearly all insurance companies refuse to cover because treatment is so difficult and expensive. This is one reason why psychologists and other therapists usually do not tell a BPD sufferer -- or her insurance company or her fiance -- the name of her Axis 2 disorder. 

Instead, they typically report only the co-occurring Axis 1 disorders. Indeed, there are several other important reasons why the BPD diagnosis is routinely withheld from the client and her partner or spouse. I explain them in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909.


> Her therapist assures me that everything will be okay if we stick to treatment.


Like Kathy and RClawson, I suggest you don't believe it. Her therapist is ethically bound to protect HER best interests, not yours. Hence, her therapist is NOT your friend. When BPD is a strong possibility, relying on your fiance's therapist for advice before the marriage would be as foolish as relying on her attorney's advice during the divorce. 

It is important that you obtain advice from a professional who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not hers. Hence, if you are still considering marrying this woman, I strongly suggest you to see YOUR OWN clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. Although he won't be able to render a formal diagnosis without seeing her, he nonetheless can say, _"It sure sounds to me like you are dealing with...."
_
Finally, if you would like to read more about what it is like to live with a BPDer, I suggest you see my posts in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, SU86.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

wanting to help her and save her and turn her life around and hanging in there with her are all amazing things. you obviously love her very much. your commitment is as deep and strong as if she was your child that you could not abandon. however, describing everything as you did, if you do marry this woman, despite your very serious concerns for her emotional health and your lack of physical attraction for her, is surely a life sentence of unhappiness. You are totally selfless now. you would do anything for her if only to give her a little happiness or a little peace. But happens if, after even more years, you realize that there is absolutely nothing that you can do to make this better and that it's not getting better, but getting worse.

If you're a family man, if you want to know the joys of kids, and having fun, and smiling, and being happy, I don't think you'll find it down this path you're heading. When parents are unhappy, the kids will be unhappy.

Do not get married. Stay engaged. Get educated like Uptown says to totally understand what you're in for if you marry this woman.


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## keepsmiling (Nov 20, 2012)

You're very brave, just be careful not to lose yourself while you're saving her. You only get one life.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

SamsungUser86 said:


> I think that in today's world people give up on relationships too easily which is why I see so many miserable people here. As frustrated and depressed I can feel at times... and even quite hopeless... I know that she is making the most effort right now in her mental health so that she can keep me in her life. I have told her before that if ever everything gets too much for me to handle, I will walk away. She knows she needs help now which is why she is trying like she is. She is trying to take responsibility for her life for the first time. She is getting out and finally doing well in school. There have been many positive changes in her life and I have pushed her along the way to always keep striving to do better because I can see who she is striving to be and the life that she wants for herself and us, but it's not easy for me. I have to put my needs on the back-burner sometimes, but at the same time I don't think that that is a terrible thing. You sacrifice for the ones you love. You fight for what is good in this world. Your happiness depends entirely on your attitude.


Samsung, I LOVE your attitude. Your fiancee is lucky to have you. 

Okay, so. Balanced approach here. Most people tell you that you'd better run in the case of mental health issues (easy for them to say!), and that it's possible that your girl has BPD. Not all people are the same, and thus, not all people with BPD are the same. Some people have had a very bad time with BPDers, but I am here to tell you that there IS hope, especially if your fiancee is already in IC and is willing to take responsibility for herself. That's HUGE. So even if she does have BPD, it is not automatically "over" for you guys, or a lost cause. I have BPD and while I still have a ways to go, I have been very successful with my therapy and DBT. Plus, I've heard over and over again that BPD is highly treatable, despite what you hear around here. If she does end up having BPD, don't let anyone tell you it's hopeless.

Now, the other side. Your girl has a lot to deal with. As you've noted, she did not draw the "happy life" card. Chances are, she is going to be struggling for a very long time and you might not reach a happy place with her for a while, if ever. So you have to look at that and decide where you want to be and where to go from here. Look at your feelings carefully and make sure you're there mostly because you love her and not because you want to rescue her. This is not going to be an easy road, and it will be long. Make sure you still want to be on it 10 years from now. You've given her fair warning that you will walk if things become too much to handle.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

SamsungUser86 said:


> I feel as if I have been rather fortunate in my life. I had a good childhood. Parents did not have a lot of money but we always got along well for the most part and we had fun however we could as a family. Was shy throughout school years but really opened up after highschool and matured greatly and have a well rounded look on life. I have realistic expectations and some good close friends. Had a few relationships with really attractive girls but they were always either too immature, way too much into drama, or just left me for some other ********* who treated them worse than me. My parents taught me to be honest, and chivalrous. My parents have been happily married for over 26 years. I always think of my significant other first. I put others before myself, and do everything out of empathy and love for my feeling human brothers and sisters.
> 
> Now to my fiance. Rough childhood. Her grandpa (mom's side) beat her grandma senseless, and was a felon who served 10 years. Was a pedophile who molested my fiance's mother when she was small. After he got knowledge of the police coming to his house to arrest him, he hung himself. Fiance has always been emotional about not ever really having a relationship with her grandfather. My fiance's parents got pregnant with her when they were both 16. Didn't get married until second child was born. Both of my fiance's parents had problems. Both drank a lot, partied, and did drugs. CPS has been out to their house over half a dozen times while they all lived together. My fiance ended up almost raising her 3 siblings because the parents could not or would not. Through all the stress of her family she lived with and her boyfriend's abuse (more on that later), she attempted to kill herself after taking a bunch of pills. After my fiance's father went off the chain one night and strangled my fiance, she called the cops on him and he was arrested. Her mom kicked her out and she ended up moving into her boyfriend's house.
> 
> ...


Postpone the marriage. Give her more time with her treatment plan which can include losing weight. You do appear to love her & want to help her which is admirable but you can do all of this w/o marriage.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

^ Best response.


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## domah (May 18, 2012)

OP:

Simple. Do not get married. If you love her, stay with her and support her. Grow old together, raise a family.. but *do not get married!* It is a fallacy to believe the only way for you two to be together or have a family is through marriage.

If things go wrong in the future (and given her background, it sounds like there is a possibility they may), not signing away all your rights in a lop-sided marriage contract will save you (and her) a lot of emotional, financial and physical heartbreak. If you two live together happily ever after, then nothing is lost by not getting married.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

As several here have mentioned, you want to be the Knight in Shining Armour. It's great that you were raised to be empathetic but you also need to look out for your own well-being if you are to be of any service to others and you have forgotten to look after you and have sacrificed all for her with little in return and that isn't' healthy.

I understand not giving up on a relationship BUT - go read your post. NO WHERE DO YOU SAY YOU LOVE HER. You say you want to be happy/you want her to be happy/you want the relationship to work but you don't say you LOVE her. 

I think you are confusing being fond of her and being needed with being in love.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Ignoring the mental health issues, marrying someone you don't find attractive is a fool's game. A quote from your post...



> everything I liked about her looks when we got together is completely gone.


You're setting yourself up for a lifetime of martyrdom and suffering. My $0.02 worth. Use it or not, no skin off my nose.

C


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Samsunguser...I applaud your motives, desires and heart.

But there's one GOLDEN RULE!

You can't save someone from themselves.

With her history, there's no way she loves herself and in turn will be 1. self destructive and 2. can't truly love you.

She will sabotage anything that brings her happiness because in her heart she doesn't think she can have it. 

And worse, there's NOTHING you can do about it. All you can do is leave or hop on the pain train and "enjoy" the ride. Which is exactly what it sounds like you've done.

I know it stinks because you feel like you're abandoning someone, but you have one of two choices. Live in her hell or find your own heaven. They are mutually exclusive.


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