# Sky diving



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Poeple that are considered risk takers are considered more likely to cheat. I can't help but notice an interesting thing that suggests to me that the behaviors are linked closer than is commonly considered. 

A few months before my Ws A she suddenly got interested in sky diving. She talked about how she would like to etc. After Dday she lost all interest in it. 

Dieting, dressing better, wearing more make up all preceeded the A, but the interest in sky diving preceeded everything.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Sky diving isn't necessarily "risky", but it certainly is thrilling. Yes people in affairs are seeking thrills too, you may see some correlation but most people would probably separate the two thrill-seeking activities, I certainly wouldn't consider skydiving a red flag of infidelity, unless she happens to be spending free time with her off-the-clock skydiving instructor.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Lon said:


> Sky diving isn't necessarily "risky", but it certainly is thrilling. Yes people in affairs are seeking thrills too, you may see some correlation but most people would probably separate the two thrill-seeking activities, I certainly wouldn't consider skydiving a red flag of infidelity, unless she happens to be spending free time with her off-the-clock skydiving instructor.


Just pointing out that the thrill seeking interest started before the interest in an A did.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

You could also argue that the risk taking sports serve as a healthy outlet for some people, allowing them to remain "safe" in marriage?

I have always been a risk taker - skiing (raced through university), sky dived, scuba dive, worked as a trader for 6 years. My STBXW was scared to ride a bike, hated skiing because she was afraid of injuries (I had a cane on our honeymoon while rehab from an ACL replacement). She was always prepared and planned, while I was a last minuter. Yet she had the year long secret EA and 4 month PA. Totally out of character!

Maybe everybody needs a certain amount of thrill during their lives? If you lead too safe a life, when you hit middle age you go crazy to fill up your thrill quotient? Or others have a bottomless thrill quotient so need affairs to keep the rush going?

Just a thought...


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

I would say it would be more of a correlation between a MLC, rather an affair. Of course a lot of people in a MLC due often question if they chose the right spouse. But if someone suddenly feels they need to live more or become interested in things they've never had an interest in I would think that. They a looking to fill a void or find some sort of purpose. New career, hobbies, new outlook on life, spirituality...etc.. The most extreme of that I believe is choosing to love someone else. I think that's the motivation though.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> You could also argue that the risk taking sports serve as a healthy outlet for some people, allowing them to remain "safe" in marriage?
> 
> I have always been a risk taker - skiing (raced through university), sky dived, scuba dive, worked as a trader for 6 years. My STBXW was scared to ride a bike, hated skiing because she was afraid of injuries (I had a cane on our honeymoon while rehab from an ACL replacement). She was always prepared and planned, while I was a last minuter. Yet she had the year long secret EA and 4 month PA. Totally out of character!
> 
> ...


I agree with that. Also, man you have lived the LIFE!:smthumbup: Too bad you had a sh!tty...wife..


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

FalconKing said:


> I agree with that. Also, man you have lived the LIFE!:smthumbup: Too bad you had a sh!tty...wife..


Thanks - I thought I was living a great life until my stbxw decided to engage in some thrill seeking with a POSOM! 

This is an interesting thread because it gave me some new insights into my failed marriage.

When I got married, I toned down a lot of my activities. Even skiing became a sport I did with my stbxw - which meant I basically skied cover (i.e. slowly and uphill of my stbxw) when I skied with her. But it was a "thrill" to see her develop her skills.

I taught my wife to play golf and eventually she became ultra-competitive at it - winning our club championship one year. Before kids, we would play 4 - 5 rounds a week during the summer TOGETHER (in addition to rounds with buddies). After work, on weekends - it dominated our activities. Now golf may not seem like a thrilling sport - unless you play it. Golfers will understand the thrill of the game even though it looks sedate. And we ALWAYS played for something which added to the thrill (dinner, massages on each other, who did what to whom in bed after golf). We once went a whole summer without buying groceries because we were always out at the course. Seriously - we'd leave for work - eat breakfast downtown - leave work and go to the course - have a late dinner at a restaurant later. 

When we had kids - I substituted fatherhood for a lot of sport activities (eg -cutting back on golf) - and got my "thrill" from watching my kids develop. I thought my stbxw and I were doing fine - our sex life was still great, and I could not have been happier.

But, in hindsight, I see that I was able to successfully substitute sport and high risk "thrills" for other thrills. On the other hand, my wife really missed what we used to do together (especially golf) and was not able to substitute that thrill for another. So her thrill quotient was unsatisfied. That's where I have accepted and take responsibility for failing to see this. She continued to golf, but we only played together a handful of times a summer (you just can't play as much with kids). So her "thrills" were being satisfied with other playing partners. And our home/family life, which was so "thrilling" for me - was not enough for my stbxw.

Then, after her MLC hit, she sought validation and "thrills" by taking her golfing and having an EA with a younger guy she met in a tournament. It led to a PA one year later.

Anyway, life goes on... Thanks for starting this thread Ovid - it was food for thought.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Anyway, life goes on... Thanks for starting this thread Ovid - it was food for thought.


You're welcome. 

I think you guys are on to something better. 

Not as far as a MLC, but maybe a sudden personality reversal. Something out of character from before. Maybe that could be the first stage before the decision becomes more obvios with activities like losing weight, working out etc... Then again this thinking would also create a lot of false alarms.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I dunno Ovid. We were tossing live ammo into campfire as kids, I took unnecessary risks as a youth, and I always wanted to skydive. My WW always said I'm too reckless


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

snap said:


> I dunno Ovid. We were tossing live ammo into campfire as kids, I took unnecessary risks as a youth, and I always wanted to skydive. My WW always said I'm too reckless


It's not the sky diving I'm focused on. It's the sudden change from "I would never do that" to "I always wanted to do that." Then after the A is over "I would never do that".

That thinking was the first in and the last out.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My husband is a risk taker. He's the sort who suffers from what my best friend calls Shiny Object Syndrome. He's all about whatever is next, newer, bigger, better, faster, more thrilling, more dangerous, etc. Snorkeling became spear fishing, scuba turned into cave diving, bass fishing became deep sea fishing then turned into shark fishing from a kayak. He's just that guy. And his cheating was definitely a part of that mind-set. 

I don't think it's so much the risk taking that's an issue, though. I believe it's more the inability to tolerate even moderate levels of boredom or sameness in his life. A guy who finds flying ultralights thrilling might still find it an engaging hobby after 10 years, whereas my husband was bored with it and selling his plane within 10 months. He lacks the knack for contentment, if you will.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

I wanted to go with some buddies but a family emergency came up and I missed it. I still want to do it but to do a tandem you need to be under 180lbs (from what I've heard) and I'm on the borderline. So I need to get up and lose some weight because I want to make sure that chute opens up and is able to support both the instructor and myself from thousands of feet above the ground.

I've always been a risk taker, probably why I've broken my left arm twice already along with who knows how many bruises, scrapes, scars on me from all the stupid things I did when I was younger.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Ovid said:


> It's not the sky diving I'm focused on. It's the sudden change from "I would never do that" to "I always wanted to do that." Then after the A is over "I would never do that".
> 
> That thinking was the first in and the last out.


Yes, it can be quite difficult to accept the exclusion of your spouse to these things, like either you are not worthy to her, to feel like you are either dragging her down or else she just isn't interested in doing things with you. It can put a lot of distance between spouses.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

Ovid said:


> Poeple that are considered risk takers are considered more likely to cheat. I can't help but notice an interesting thing that suggests to me that the behaviors are linked closer than is commonly considered.
> 
> A few months before my Ws A she suddenly got interested in sky diving. She talked about how she would like to etc. After Dday she lost all interest in it.
> 
> Dieting, dressing better, wearing more make up all preceeded the A, but the interest in sky diving preceeded everything.


I agree with this. It may be more accurate to say thrill seeking though. 

Needing the endorphins rush. Absolutely.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Lon said:


> Sky diving isn't necessarily "risky", but it certainly is thrilling. Yes people in affairs are seeking thrills too, you may see some correlation but most people would probably separate the two thrill-seeking activities, I certainly wouldn't consider skydiving a red flag of infidelity, unless she happens to be spending free time with her off-the-clock skydiving instructor.


It's considered "risky" when the Ws didn't use to do it in the past and had never been into until they show a sudden extreme interest. 

It could be anything, even the simpliest things out there.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

It's the defined change in a persons choices that makes it an interesting concept for me. 

I'm looking for the change before the change. The moment when the ideas she had went from one thing to another. Prior to this one change an A was unthinkable to her. This changed first, then the other things fell inline. I'm wondering if anyone else noticed a subtle change like this before the more characteristics of cheating came into play.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Ovid said:


> It's the defined change in a persons choices that makes it an interesting concept for me.
> 
> I'm looking for the change before the change. The moment when the ideas she had went from one thing to another. Prior to this one change an A was unthinkable to her. This changed first, then the other things fell inline. I'm wondering if anyone else noticed a subtle change like this before the more characteristics of cheating came into play.


I had an exit A after having endured years of abuse in my relationship that I was unable to forgive. As much as I wanted to remain a family for my child, I couldn't get past knowing that I was always that close to another incident. After 3 yrs of nothing, it happened again. In retrospect, for me that was the beginning of the end, which didn't occur until about 2 yrs later. 

I am a risk taker, and had all of the symptoms. I think where it starts is when you start focusing on doing things for yourself instead of for the relationship. It starts with doing things on your own, gaining that sense of freedom and independence, appreciating the time alone, etc. By the time you start dressing different and caring more about your appearance you are likely deeply enmeshed in at least the idea of being with someone else. 

Incidentally just on the basis on thrill seeking... I think it can go hand in hand with one's propensity towards euphoric sensations as well as addictive tendencies. I am a true thrill seeker - rock climbing, mountain biking, had 8 speeding tickets, run marathons, parasailing... (no sky diving, but it is on my bucket list once my son is older!)etc. I like thrills. My AP however had more of an addictive personality. Had a prior history of considerable amounts of drug use, had a DUI, and somewhat of an undercover attention *****. 

If I had to categorize characteristics of one's likelihood, I would think that an addictive personality OR risk taking behaviors would both be indicators -- both of these temporarily block one's need to deal with the (true) emotions / issues at hand, with is part of the root of the issue IMO


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Pepper123 said:


> It starts with doing things on your own, gaining that sense of freedom and independence, appreciating the time alone, etc. By the time you start dressing different and caring more about your appearance you are likely deeply enmeshed in at least the idea of being with someone else.


:iagree:
This is exactly what I'm getting at. Trying to find the changes that occur in a person before the obvious signs like changes in diet exersize make up etc. Like you said once these changes occur they are already one foot out the door, so the thing to look for is what occured before they decided to start looking.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Ovid said:


> :iagree:
> This is exactly what I'm getting at. Trying to find the changes that occur in a person before the obvious signs like changes in diet exersize make up etc. Like you said once these changes occur they are already one foot out the door, so the thing to look for is what occured before they decided to start looking.


I don't know that you can define that as something similar across various people, as everyone will have their own reasons. Like for me... the last incident of physical abuse was the trigger. From that day forward I took strides to become more independent. I was too much of a coward to just leave, so I did something I thought my ex could never forgive.... sadly in the aftermath he wanted to at least try, but I was already emotionally vacant towards him by that point, as I'd been unconsciously working on my exit for a couple of years. 

With my AP I can tell you that for him it was the birth of his second child... He had only wanted one child, and after his second was born there was little time left for him (and he is somewhat needy when it comes to attention and gratification).


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Pepper123 said:


> I don't know that you can define that as something similar across various people, as everyone will have their own reasons. Like for me... the last incident of physical abuse was the trigger. From that day forward I took strides to become more independent. I was too much of a coward to just leave, so I did something I thought my ex could never forgive.... sadly in the aftermath he wanted to at least try, but I was already emotionally vacant towards him by that point, as I'd been unconsciously working on my exit for a couple of years.
> 
> With my AP I can tell you that for him it was the birth of his second child... He had only wanted one child, and after his second was born there was little time left for him (and he is somewhat needy when it comes to attention and gratification).


You're probably right that the actual change will be differant for some people than it will for others, but finding a class of actions/thoughts should be doable.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Ovid said:


> :iagree:
> This is exactly what I'm getting at. Trying to find the changes that occur in a person before the obvious signs like changes in diet exersize make up etc. Like you said once these changes occur they are already one foot out the door, so the thing to look for is what occured before they decided to start looking.


Looking back, this is what happened in my marriage. My wife and I used to share in most things - so even though we were financially independent of each other, we would always discuss major purchases. Eg - I have always been a car guy, so when we were in the market my stbxw and I would often go to the car show together - scope out what we liked and then get something (within our budget, of course). Even when my wife got her own car, it was fun to buy together (test drive, etc). It was fun because my stbxw became a bit of a car nut - we have been on some crazy test drives. I've always been a tougher negotiator so was always be the "bad guy" in the bargaining with the salesman. Then, 6 years ago, my stbxw went out - test drove, negotiated - did everything herself. At the time, I was kind of proud of her - but in hindsight, it was just another step towards doing things on her own, outside of our marriage.

Another small example is golf. I never go into things halfway - so I can fully service, re-grip, adjust lie and loft and tweak my clubs when necessary. I don't go crazy, but I always think I can do a better job than a guy at a shop. Always looked after my stbxw's clubs too. She's petite, so it helped to "customize" her clubs. Then one summer, she started getting her clubs re-gripped at Golf Town - saying she didn't want me to bother. 

In hindsight, it's as if she didn't want to feel any obligations to me - a little bit at a time. These are all small examples but there are many more and they all add up.

Eventually she was driving her car to her course to play with her friends. I guess I've mentioned many times that she met the POSOM in a tournament 4 summers ago.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Post above seems to be spot on IMO... Cedarman your wife played golf, I ran marathons. A dedicated marathon training program can easily take you out of the house about 15 hours per week. 

I think the WS rationalizes the independent activities as a coping mechanism for the underlying issues and insecurities that they are dealing with. During the independent activities the newness of an intriguing person that you mesh with catches your eye... you know the rest.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Pepper123 said:


> Post above seems to be spot on IMO... Cedarman your wife played golf, I ran marathons. A dedicated marathon training program can easily take you out of the house about 15 hours per week.
> 
> I think the WS rationalizes the independent activities as a coping mechanism for the underlying issues and insecurities that they are dealing with. During the independent activities the newness of an intriguing person that you mesh with catches your eye... you know the rest.



And the weird thing is, my stbxw met the POSOM golfing, eventually having an EA, then sexting, then a PA. During the summer of her PA she played a lot of golf with him. So her independent activities led to an interdependence with the POSOM. With the POSOM taking my place golfing with her and... yeah.... I know the rest! (I could make a lot of golfing innuendoes here (balls, shafts, putters) but it's still a little painful... )


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## musicaldreams (Jan 5, 2013)

I am going Skydiving for the first time next week. Not sure what to expect. I am not a thrill seeker. I do not have the personality for this at all. I don't scream. I don't laugh out loud like a 23 year old drunk college student. I just think it would be an interesting this to do. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. (I suppose I should copy and paste this in the post I wrote before I saw this one, huh?)


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

What's interesting is you posted "My wife and I have had sex 4 times in 10 years!" on the 4th of this month. Are you feeling more independant? Have you started a new diet/exercise routine?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

musicaldreams said:


> I am going Skydiving for the first time next week. Not sure what to expect. I am not a thrill seeker. I do not have the personality for this at all. I don't scream. I don't laugh out loud like a 23 year old drunk college student. I just think it would be an interesting this to do. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. (I suppose I should copy and paste this in the post I wrote before I saw this one, huh?)


My first experience skydiving (actually parachuting, since there was no free fall portion), was when I was still in University - working at a summer job. We're talking over 30 years ago. A group of us at work decided it would be fun. I invited a girl (we were not boyfriend/girlfriend really) who wanted to come. My jump was a blast. On her jump, unfortunately she landed on a small rock and broke her ankle very badly. So badly that the local hospital couldn't handle it and I had to drive her back to the city, with her lying on a blanket in the hatch area of my car with the back seats flat. Turns out, she had not told her parents that she was going skydiving. I will never forget how they looked at me - I felt really badly and guilty for getting her into it. I visited her in hospital many times, but I don't think her parents would ever forgive me. My first experience at relationship "guilt".

Anyway - pay attention during the pre-jump training and have fun!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

You are completely and utterly wrong here! I loved being adventurous and a risk taker. Not once have I ever cheated nor would I ever.










Here's one of my sky diving photos. If I didn't break my neck, I'd do it again in a heartbeat!

That same year I went white water rafting too! Fun fun fun!


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## musicaldreams (Jan 5, 2013)

Ovid said:


> What's interesting is you posted "My wife and I have had sex 4 times in 10 years!" on the 4th of this month. Are you feeling more independant? Have you started a new diet/exercise routine?


That is interesting that you say that. As far as being independent, throughout my marriage I have always had to travel for business. Sometimes I would be gone for a few days, or a week, or a month. I assumed that she was really supportive and did not want to get in my way. Now I think she was probably glad to get rid of me. She once told she likes when I leave because she orders a pizza and watched whatever she wants. Kind of weird, since she does that anyway!

My diet or exercise routine has not changed. I am healthy beyond comprehension. I always have been. I come from a health-conscious family, and I have exercised and taken care of myself always.

Once again, this is very interesting that you mention this because my wife has ... I won't say she has let herself go, because that sounds worse than it is ... but she has no interest in exercising at all, and she has put on some weight. Not a lot. But her mom is heavy, and I can see that she could possibly go in that direction, and it turns me off. Actually, I am not so much turned off by her putting on weight as I am by the attitude she has about not wanting to exercise. She has the time. I used to take her to the gym with me. She could not wait to get the hell out of there. She practically acted like I was dragging her to a dungeon. 

I have no fear in me. I will speak to anyone who at least comes across as sane. I will travel anywhere. I am always engaged in different things, and I look forward to a lot of things. I always have plans. She has been an unwilling passenger in my life. Given a choice, she'd rather stay home and watch tv.

So, why am I going Skydiving next week? I guess I always wanted to. I've got the time to zoom down South and do it. And I don't really care to be around her all that much, and I guess I want to be alone with my thoughts. Maybe 5 minutes floating above the earth, from 11,000 feet, will be wonderful. 

Wow, I really hijacked this post. So sorry. I did not mean to.


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## musicaldreams (Jan 5, 2013)

That same year I went white water rafting too! Fun fun fun![/QUOTE]

Oh, I'd love to go White Water rafting!

Where is the best place to do that? Colorado? Asheville, NC?


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

This post wasn't really about sky diving it was about my wife change in attitude about something that was not cheating a few months before her attitude about cheating also changed. I used sky diving as the example because that was what her attitude changed about. It's about the change in mentality from I would never do that to I want to do that. I was looking for other examples of that to see if there was a class of behavior that changed prior to cheating being on the table.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Ovid said:


> This post wasn't really about sky diving it was about my wife change in attitude about something that was not cheating a few months before her attitude about cheating also changed. I used sky diving as the example because that was what her attitude changed about. It's about the change in mentality from I would never do that to I want to do that. I was looking for other examples of that to see if there was a class of behavior that changed prior to cheating being on the table.


I completely get what you're after. It's the steps pre-affair that may be evident in hindsight. Steps to assert "independence" or steps which reveal an attempt to live (or re-live) fun experiences the WS thinks were missed because of the marriage. For my wife it was little things like golfing more with others than with me - to the point where it felt like she had an attitude of "doing me a favour" when we did golf together. Another one I just thought of - she had a work trip to Las Vegas (pre-cheating) and one of the choices for group excursions was to the "Nascar Experience". My wife chose this OVER golf, which was a little surprising. Again - a change of attitude towards a "new" experience rather than the familiar choice.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> I completely get what you're after. It's the steps pre-affair that may be evident in hindsight. Steps to assert "independence" or steps which reveal an attempt to live (or re-live) fun experiences the WS thinks were missed because of the marriage. For my wife it was little things like golfing more with others than with me - to the point where it felt like she had an attitude of "doing me a favour" when we did golf together. Another one I just thought of - she had a work trip to Las Vegas (pre-cheating) and one of the choices for group excursions was to the "Nascar Experience". My wife chose this OVER golf, which was a little surprising. Again - a change of attitude towards a "new" experience rather than the familiar choice.


Nailed it. Thank you.


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## musicaldreams (Jan 5, 2013)

Yes, I know. My fault. I'll copy my ramble to the other post.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

musicaldreams said:


> That same year I went white water rafting too! Fun fun fun!


Oh, I'd love to go White Water rafting!

Where is the best place to do that? Colorado? Asheville, NC?[/QUOTE]

I have no idea. My husband went white water rafting in Colorado and their raft hit a rock and deflated nearly killing him and his cousin. They had to pay for the damaged raft which was about $900. I went somewhere much milder. I loved it though. I miss those days. I am stuck at home now since I'm disabled. I did live some great moments.

I really appreciate my husband and all he does for me. He's truly a wonderful man. I'm very lucky to have him as my husband and I'd do anything I can to make his life happy.


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