# She has never answered any of my questions.



## JimK (Feb 11, 2014)

Hello All,
I am a newbie to the site and wanted to share my story. My W's A occurred over 15 years ago. I hope no one here thinks I'm nuts for still carrying this on this long, since I see nearly all of you are much more recent victims. For years I thought all was OK; we sought counseling, went on retreats, enjoyed our children and so on... Recently a "trigger" event threw me for a loop and sent my mind on a rampage. My therapist said it is very similar to PTSD. The therapist employed some effective techniques which quelled the ghosts and flashbacks for a time. She felt however that my wife would need therapy as well due to some unresolved issues on her part. She would hear nothing of if, stating that it is all resolved and in the past and she had no issues to deal with. Since she wouldn't go, I thought on my own I'd employ some techniques learned way back in graduate school. I did tell her about my "ghosts" and flashbacks, and the scars that were left unhealed. She did ask what she could do to help. So, I asked her if I could ask one question from time to time concerning the A. I had a whole list, but would only deal with them one at a time. They dealt with many of the questions mentioned in this thread, when, where, why ... Not the sexual details, but those things that bothered me most. Question #1 - Would you two ever sit around and laugh about what a fool I must have been for not knowing what was going on? That was the end of the questions. She told me that I should ask the therapist if I wanted answers to any question. This was 6 months ago, and things have been on edge since. I really don't know how to approach it ... our shared psychiatrist has offered to counsel, but she refuses. I don't want to leave, especially for our two remaining children at home and I certainly don't want to give up anything financially since it was all her to begin with. I'm lost...


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

JimK said:


> Question #1 - Would you two ever sit around and laugh about what a fool I must have been for not knowing what was going on? That was the end of the questions. She told me that I should ask the therapist if I wanted answers to any question.


She knew the therapist cannot share confidential information like that.

She didn't answer because the answer was yes.

If it was no, she would have hugged you and reassured you and done whatever she could to ease your fears, rather than blowing you off by saying "go ask the therapist". She obviously doesn't give a rat's ass how you feel and/or she is too much of a coward to give you the true answer to your question because it's a really messed up thing that she did.

It's been 15 years of your life wasted. How much more of this are you going to take?


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

JimK said:


> Question #1 - Would you two ever sit around and laugh about what a fool I must have been for not knowing what was going on?


The fact that she can't answer that question should be your answer. True remorse is transparency fails remorse conflict avoidance

And please don't stay for the kids that never works out for them in the long run


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How long was the affair? 
How did you discover it?

Who was POSOM?

Did you wife drag it out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JimK (Feb 11, 2014)

I was never exactly sure how long the A was. Conflicting stories... When I began to put things together, I intercepted phone calls, which only took a day ... not him, but her "coach". I don't know the acronym POSOM, sorry.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

She successfully rugswept the details and you allowed it.

That it was 15 years is really not that unusual.

However, now you are aware of it and have to act.

Courage, and ask and insist on an answer or divorce.

You may be divorcing anyway.

Draw the line in the sand and mean it.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

jimk,

You give us no details about the discovery of her A and the consequences she received. But I would strongly suspect there were few of them and that you effectively rug swept the event.

These questions should have been asked and answered 15 years ago. There is no expiration date on the regret for not testing her remorse enough back then. You can of course, test it now, but it's almost not fair to her after this long. 

I said almost. You and only you can decide whether her lack of remorse now, is a deal breaker. If it is, calmly explain that to her and see if you can make her understand. Then, watch how she reacts and make your decision.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Being a cheater, this is my take on it...

I gave my wife every opportunity to discuss my affair. Answered every question she had, even painful/graphic ones.

At some point in time you have to move on. You were wrong no resolving these issues back then and while they are legitimate issues/questions that should have been answered what you are telling your wife is that you never moved on (necessary part of reconciliation). Her answers are probably going to hurt you and after 15 years she doesn't want to do that.

I understand that you deserve(d) answers but after 15 years? If my wife came back to me after 15 years I wouldn't discuss it.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

well you could employ the 180, it is meant to help you move on but if she see you are distancing yourself it might bring her around.
Yes those question should been answer long ago, but you could still try.

POSOM - piece of sh*t other male


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## JimK (Feb 11, 2014)

badmemory said:


> jimk,
> 
> You give us no details about the discovery of her A and the consequences she received. But I would strongly suspect there were few of them and that you effectively rug swept the event.


Details about the discovery: I was dealing
with some difficult financial issues and working 3 jobs after moving back to her hometown. I began suffering with depression, but denied it. After a couple of years, admitted I was depressed and sought counseling (and medication). Meds helped and I started to think more clearly, clearly enough to know something was wrong. That's how I discovered the A. I threatened suicide, ended up in the hospital, came out after 2 weeks and she asked me to return home. I believe she suffered NO consequences other than a few worthless counseling sessions.


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## JimK (Feb 11, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> How long was the affair?
> How did you discover it?
> 
> Who was POSOM?
> ...



POSOM was a ajnitor of all things at the place where she worked ... not that there is anything wrong with being a janitor.


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## JimK (Feb 11, 2014)

convert said:


> well you could employ the 180, it is meant to help you but if she see you are distancing yourself it might bring her around.
> Yes those question should been answer long ago, but you could still try.
> 
> POSOM - piece of sh*t other male




What is a 180?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

JimK said:


> I believe she suffered *NO consequences *other than a few worthless counseling sessions.


Euphemistically, this can be described as your chickens coming home to roost; and I suspected as much.

Talk to your wife. Let her know how you feel. Tell her you regret the mistakes you made 15 years ago; that you're not confident that she's remorseful about the A because she won't answer these questions. Ask her to respect your feelings about this. Maybe there's a chance that you can make her understand.

But honestly, if you've otherwise had a good marriage since then, I'd think long and hard about divorcing her over this, after that long.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Bad Memory said it best.

The wayward got to rug sweep it and of course wants to keep it buried.

What was the GENERAL length of time?
What was the APPROXIAMATE number of hook ups?
What was the location of the hookups? IE his car?
What type of affair was it? Pure fvckfest, pure emotion or both sex and I love yous.

Think of me as the head of intel and the logistics guy. There is a method to my madness in the above. I note a bunch of your questions are also logistical.


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## JimK (Feb 11, 2014)

Chris Taylor,

A few weeks after returning home, I asked my first question. Being naive about A's I asked if there was sex involved and if so, how often. I believe she answered honestly, which killed me. The shock probably caused my "rug sweeping". Like I said in my original post, I thought I had dealt with it effectively until a trigger event. She went on a business trip which just had to take place even though she would miss a family vacation. Months later I found that she had been texting an old boyfriend (no real big deal to me) for quite a while. Where did he live? You can guess, business trip! I confronted her but she denied seeing him. In a heated discussion later, she did admit seeing him, but vehemently denied any other activity. Can you see why this would tear open old wounds and cause flashbacks and questions???


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

someone link the "puzzle pieces" post by ?josephwhatthefvckever?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP shes been a good girl with no red flags since?


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

can some post the link to the 180 for the OP?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

JimK said:


> Like I said in my original post, I thought I had dealt with it effectively until a trigger event. She went on a business trip which just had to take place even though she would miss a family vacation. Months later I found that she had been texting an old boyfriend (no real big deal to me) for quite a while. Where did he live? You can guess, business trip! I confronted her but she denied seeing him. In a heated discussion later, she did admit seeing him, but vehemently denied any other activity. Can you see why this would tear open old wounds and cause flashbacks and questions???


A point of clarification, OP: In the post above, you mention that you wife has been texting an old boyfriend and that she also skipped a family vacation to go on a business trip to said old boyfriend's town. And that she hid the fact that she visited with him on that business trip and even outright lied to you about it for a while.

This is the recent triggering event? A separate situation from your wife's affair 15 years ago?


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## JimK (Feb 11, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> Bad Memory said it best.
> 
> The wayward got to rug sweep it and of course wants to keep it buried.
> 
> ...


I believe the general length of time was around a year. # of hookups ... no idea, but I could guess several and believe they were motel type meetings. As far as the type, she was planning on leaving with him, leaving me, the kids and all.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

oh the old boyfriend texting should be a big deal
and then trickle truth you about meeting him

yes a big red flag


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## JimK (Feb 11, 2014)

Rowan said:


> A point of clarification, OP: In the post above, you mention that you wife has been texting an old boyfriend and that she also skipped a family vacation to go on a business trip to said old boyfriend's town. And that she hid the fact that she visited with him on that business trip and even outright lied to you about it for a while.
> 
> This is the recent triggering event? A separate situation from your wife's affair 15 years ago?


Yes it is a recent trigger and completely separate from the A.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

JimK said:


> Chris Taylor,
> 
> She went on a business trip which just had to take place even though she would miss a family vacation. Months later I found that she had been texting an old boyfriend (*no real big deal to me*) for quite a while. Where did he live? You can guess, business trip! I confronted her but she denied seeing him. In a heated discussion later, *she did admit seeing him, but vehemently denied any other activity.* Can you see why this would tear open old wounds and cause flashbacks and questions???


Details help JimK,

If you're saying this texting and ultimately admitting she met up with the old boyfriend occurred recently, then that's a whole different ball game.

No big deal? Really? Trust me, that's a big deal. I'd say that if she met with him face to face, you have every reason to assume she had sex with him - based on her history.

That's what you should be focusing on. Getting to THAT truth.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

JimK said:


> Yes it is a recent trigger and completely separate from the A.


Ok, then. I think a major problem, though you don't seem to realize it, is that you don't trust your wife because she is not trustworthy. She had one PA that you know of, that was cleanly rugswept. Now she's texting old boyfriends. And meeting up with them. And hiding that involvement. And even outright lying to you about it.

Your wife cheats. Because she wants to. And because she obviously can. My guess is that you've only scratched the surface of what she's been up to all these years. I'm so sorry, but I think you've got bigger problems than you seem to know. And the fact that she won't answer questions about a 15 year old affair is probably low on the list of issues that require attention at this point.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

I agree with bad memory

You need to dig on this old friend thing

at the minimum it is a EA


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Your wife is not remorseful and never had repercussions for her affair.
Her recent behavior, given her past, is more than a red flag, for most in R, it would be a deal breaker.

Your wife is more than likely cheating again. Sorry.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

JimK said:


> I believe the general length of time was around a year. # of hookups ... no idea, but I could guess several and believe they were motel type meetings. As far as the type, she was planning on leaving with him, leaving me, the kids and all.


So you still have no clue? If I were you her actions tell me she is hiding something. She is rugsweeping and you can't let her. If you do you are telling her that what she did will never be found out. I many cases it empowers them to start the A back up again or find a new Affair Partner. Keep asking the questions and keep asking them until she answers. Tell her that her refusal to answer questions is dragging your soul into a dark place. She betrayed you and if she doesn't have the stones to help you face the hell she has dragged you into. Then you don't need her in your life. 
With no evidence you have go to stand strong and keep pushing. Don't let her excuses phase you. Don't let her turn it around on you. IE " we never talked" your reply " you were too busy with the OM to talk to me so wtf were you talking about?" 
She is either trying to manipulate you into letting this blow over. Or she knows that she did something you think you will not be able to forgive her for doing. IE a sexual act she denied you but gave the OM willingly. Be prepared my friend you are going to have to go through hell to get back to heaven. But if she's not willing to do her part then you should consider staging a false D or at least starting the process so she has to take you seriously.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Your wife learned that she can play with fire and not get burned. And she likes it!! What possible motivation does she have to not continue her behavior?

HARD 180 right now.
STD check NOW.
Snoop like the damn NSA
Consult a lawyer to know your options
Sort through all your options

Then grab your junk and proceed like a boss.

Praying for you..

~ Passio


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*JimK: You said that the POSOM originally was a janitor, is that right? Is this the only man that's she's been suspected of messing around with or are there others?

Or am I totally off base and missing something here?*


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OH FVCK! Just to be clear.

True or false. Your wife has within the past say 6 months started texting some guy?
***If TRUE***
STOP STOP STOP

Read this live this and shut up to her!

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Sorry JimK, but I strongly suspect you are about to find out that your wife is/has cheated again with the ex boyfriend. Whether it's purely an emotional affair only or if it went physical too during her business trip will be up to you to figure out. 

Others will give you advice on how to ferret out the info.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> someone link the "puzzle pieces" post by ?josephwhatthefvckever?


JimK: This is what Weightlifter is referring to. The are plenty of us here who still don't have answers after many years. This "letter" is meant to explain to people like your wife why they need to answer questions in order to move past the A (assuming they want to).


To......... ,

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge.

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have.

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down.

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are.

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important.

Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it.

You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart.

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together.

It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Yes I am sure we can all see why you would trigger. I am concerned about you being OK with her Texting a old boy friend. There are no boundaries set down. 

You need to sit down with her and let her know what you are feeling and also talk with her about boundaries and establish them together. I would start with no old boyfriends or girlfriends and no Girls Night Out!

If you missed it POS is Piece of ****


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

There was no business trip.

Why do you think it occurred in her 'holiday/vacation' time? The time was already booked off work.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> Being a cheater, this is my take on it...
> 
> I gave my wife every opportunity to discuss my affair. Answered every question she had, even painful/graphic ones.
> 
> ...


You would be wrong to deny your BW the truth now.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Jim,

The 180 is basically stopping dead in your tracks, and turning 180 degrees from what you have already been doing to salvage your relationship. In other words, *do the complete opposite* of everything you've been doing. You can't "nice" your way into reconciliation. 

Here it is:

Q: What is 180 and how does it work?
A: 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. *Strong is attractive.*

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Chris Taylor said:


> Being a cheater, this is my take on it...
> 
> I gave my wife every opportunity to discuss my affair. Answered every question she had, even painful/graphic ones.
> 
> ...


You answered your W's questions at the time. JimK's W gave him squat. In that situation there is no expiration date on needing to know. Moving on is a necessary part of reconciliation, yes, but having your questions answered is a necessary part of moving on.


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## Centurions (Jan 31, 2013)

Wow. Your wife is texting an old boyfriend? Going on mysterious " business trips"?

File for divorce. Tell her she can go frigg her lover boy. Work out, get hard, and prepare for your new life.

Find a new woman that truly loves you--and doesn't jerk you around with stupid ***** games.

You deserve better. Much better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

For God's sake how much more humiliation and disrespect are you willing to suffer?
1. Get tested for STD's
2. See an attorney to understand your options.

IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

Jim, she is and might have been cheating for all 15 years of marriage. It's a definite possibility. There are old timers like weightlifter whose posts have helped a lot of people. Go through them.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Well now, let's see. Why would your wife not want your questions, including



> Question #1 - Would you two ever sit around and laugh about what a fool I must have been for not knowing what was going on?


She does not want you to know the answers, she fears you'd divorce her on the spot.

*Or perhaps she does not want to answer your questions to herself?*

Because she'd have to admit to herself exactly what a treacherous beast she'd been.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

JimK said:


> Chris Taylor,
> 
> She went on a business trip which just had to take place even though she would miss a family vacation. Months later I found that she had been texting an old boyfriend (no real big deal to me) for quite a while. Where did he live? You can guess, business trip! I confronted her but she denied seeing him. In a heated discussion later, she did admit seeing him, but vehemently denied any other activity. Can you see why this would tear open old wounds and cause flashbacks and questions???


 First big mistake was letting her get away with the affair in the first place.

Now you find out she's texting another guy and miss the family vacation, lied to you and admitted to seeing this other guy.

Right then and there, you should have told her that because of you being so naive she got away with it once with no consequences, but now she's talking to another guy and this time things will be different. Let her know that you already went through one nightmare because of her being selfish and ignorant and this time she's going to suffer the nightmare and it will stop. 

Do not give her a chance to respond and make sure she knows that there will be no next time.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

brokeneric said:


> Jim, she is and might have been cheating for all 15 years of marriage. It's a definite possibility. There are old timers like weightlifter whose posts have helped a lot of people. Go through them.


I'm not OK with calling Weightlifter Old Timer 

55


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Because she'd have to admit to herself exactly what a treacherous beast she'd been.


I honestly believe in many cases this is why the cheater will hang onto lies and omitted truths long past any point of reasonable doubt. They just can't face themselves.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

just got it 55 said:


> I'm not OK with calling Weightlifter Old Timer


:iagree: Weightlifter is what we would call seasoned, experienced and wise beyond his years. Not an "old timer." Jeez....


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

#geezer voice

Eh? What?

Bold climber?

Where are my dentures?

#dodders off looking for lawrence welk reruns.

Waiting on info from op.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP- this is a case of rug sweeping coming back to bite you in the a$$.

If she's at it again, then no new and effective boundaries were established after the last time. You need to go into spy mode ASAP.

Read carefully what weightlifter has provided to you. Follow the plan and you'll know more shortly.

Do not rug sweep again!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> #geezer voice
> 
> Eh? What?
> 
> ...


Bahaha!! Weightlifter, I hope you're hot as h*ell because that's how I picture you


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> #geezer voice
> 
> Eh? What?
> 
> ...


Here's the Lawrence Welk rerun you ordered, sir!
The Lawrence Welk Show - 200 Years Of American Music, Part 1 - 01-17-1976 - YouTube


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I hope you follow the good advice you are receiving.

file for divorce. See is she will answer any questions when you hand her the divorce papers.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Forget the old affair. This was what is was and it was a long time ago. It did do something for you.

Why do you think your all of a sudden triggering?

You already know the answer to this. 

You learnt last time when a cheater is cheating. Your body and subconscious has activated the emergency systems and your probably moving into hyper vigilance stage. You are already coming out of denial. The process is no less painful this time but you can avoid a lot of the painful doubt period 

You know that you dealt with it wrong last time or you would not be here. We all do it wrong. It's okay as long as you don't get stomped on again!

Continue to go to counseling on your own. Concentrate on you and not your wife.



*DIG.* 
Look at credit card statements
Check the Cell phone statement and determine when and how many texts have been made to this guy.

Do this quietly and without telling her. 

Sorry your here man..


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Hello JimK,
Sorry that you are here. Reading through this thread, I have some observations.


It seems like whatever was wrong with your wife, still is.
Also and on a separate note, it seems that whatever was wrong with your marriage (from your wife's point of view), still is. It is important to understand that this is different and separate from the previous bullet point.
This is probably why you never got the whole truth.
You have 2 problems to deal with: the fact that you never got the whole truth in the last affair (and hence no closure) AND the fact that she is having an affair NOW! (Or just recently did).
This gives you the opportunity to handle this properly now (TAM style).
You need to get an attorney and prepare to file for D.
You need to be prepared to follow through if you don't get what you want (ie be prepared to lose her)
Do not let children be the reason for staying as staying in these circumstances could prove to be even more damaging to them.
Don't let her manipulate you or control the situation. She is doing that now and also being disrespectful ("go ask the therapist if you want answers...")
Gather evidence and safely store it away and then confront and expose when you are ready
As somebody has already pointed out, she could have been cheating all the time and there were possibly other affairs even before the one you found out about.
This is far from over

You are being given and will be given good advice here but at the end of the day it is your call. Go into this with your eyes wide open and as informed as possible. Good luck!


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

OMG the poor guy. He came here for one problem and is realizing he has an even bigger one.

Like going in for a sinus infection and finding out you need a triple by-pass.

Sorry Jim that really sucks.

I wish you well!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Bahaha!! Weightlifter, I hope you're hot as h*ell because that's how I picture you


Only if Im on fire.

Anatomy of a Hater

pic of me is about 2/3 down. This was shortly after I lost 100 pounds and trimmed my neck beard.

Anyway still waiting on OP. Just not liking how this one is turning and hoping that I am wrong. Problem is we all see the oncoming train on this one...


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

You rugswept. She is cheating again. This is the price you pay. Just like before, she knows you wont do anything.

Or did you learn something the first time?


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## kalimata (Jan 29, 2014)

I agree with other posters. She is not going to be truthful with you unless you shock her with D papers


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

My opinion is that you aren't ready to deal with the situation yet.
Ask yourself "would I leave her if I knew for sure she was having an affair?"
If the answer is YES, then you FIRST need to be prepared to walk away from the relationship.
Only then are you prepared to confront the wayward.

For me, this took a lot of counselling and required me to find "myself" and realising that the relationship I had with this woman was not a "need" in my life.
The moment, you are prepared to genuinely walk away, you will know what you have to do.
The action taken will vary for everybody's situation, but might include D papers, although personally not a big fan of that.
After letting the details go the first time, you are going to have a much harder go of it the second time.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Be careful what you wish for...my stbx never gave me details as I never asked...didnt have to, I saw the email exchanges between her and the om...saw how quickly it went from him (her boss) sending dirty jokes to 4-5 peeps, to her and he emailing each other, to sex talk, to screwing in the parking lot...im talking 3-4 days and they were doing it

I also saw emails discussing the sex...
I am not quoting word for word but basically her telling him "thank GOD you make me so wet, I dont know how I could take that telephone pole otherwise"...telling him that she has never had multiple orgasms with white guys, and he (hes a black guy) made her cum herself silly over and over...she told him she could think about him at work, rub her legs together and have small orgasms...she told him when he first penetrated her, it felt like reverse childbirth (ugh)...also apparently he was able to last forever, and go over and over, he was VERY rough with her and left bruises, he had a very large fat tongue...I could go on and on....

I got all I could ever ask for and more...it doesnt make it better


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

lenzi said:


> She didn't answer because the answer was yes.
> 
> If it was no, she would have hugged you and reassured you and done whatever she could to ease your fears, rather than blowing you off by saying "go ask the therapist". She obviously doesn't give a rat's ass how you feel and/or she is too much of a coward to give you the true answer to your question because it's a really messed up thing that she did.



:iagree:

It is amazing how some people never can put 2 and 2 together and arrive at 4. 

I told one of the WW's toxic friend that she had no idea the hurt of infidelity (as she was supporting and covering for my WW). She got made and said how do you know I never have felt it? I stated, I didn't but that I just assumed, she had no idea of its effects. She said you know nothing about me and my situation. I asked, have you experienced it? She said her relationship was none of my concern, to which I replied, so you did. Which of you cheated? She said I never said that happened, to which I replied, you didn't have to as there is no shame in saying it never happened to you, only shame in admitting it did. You would have had no issue stating it hadn't happened, but since it did you are ashamed and hiding it. She promptly hung up the phone on me.


It is amazing that the slightest bit of logic will reveal all, yet many don't see this!!


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Jim, my first reaction is why are bringing up something from 15 years ago? I get the rug sweeping, not getting answers, but I was going to tell you to bury this the best you can BUT!!!!!!!!, this is not the case at all.

Reconnecting with the old boyfriend is the reason you are here. And with the additional information of her going on a business trip, while you are away on a family vacation and she then admits to seeing him, oh boy. Research shows that woman in particular when they start an EA will in about 33% of cases, will take it to a PA, that the emotional affair is not enough and woman in particular want to consumate their emotional feelings with physical action, e.g. sex.

Your wife has had an EA with this old BF and then meets him. It is a very high probability that they had sex.

I would recommend doing what weighlifter wrote. Don't confront. This is not looking good at all and your gut is telling you all you need to know, hense the triggering. It is not something you had imagined.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

What would happen if she divorced you?


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