# Forgiveness and being a "doormat"?



## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I will try and keep this brief, so here goes...

As a guy, imagine you messed up big time with your W. She finds out, is naturally upset, angry. You experience her turmoil in feeling let down by you, see her hurt. You lied to cover up your mistake(s) and she is further hurt by this.

After some time, and thought, no doubt arguing, "how could you do this to me?", she decides to forgive you and wants to move forward together.

You feel relieved. You know you messed up, but you never meant to hurt her.

She is tentative. She worries that putting it behind you means she is somehow allowing you to think that you "got away with it." That she is being a doormat.

What would she need to do to show that although she is prepared to forgive, it is not the green light to do it again? How does she stand dignified and resolute that she is giving you the gift of forgiveness and you must treat it with the respect and care it deserves? What is the difference between this woman and, well, a "doormat"?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

What did you do - how bad was it- I think the answer depends on the transgression to some extent.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

To be clear: I am the W. My H had an EA, and I feel we are at a pivotal point. I have been in some emotional turmoil and am looking at either walking away, or putting it behind us (forgiving him) and moving forward.

I am worried that saying I forgive him sends the message that he "got away with it." I feel a lot of resentment still that he lied. I also feel angry with myself for granting him that trust and that he took it and blew it apart.

I understand his reasons behind seeking the attention of this woman but find it hard to think that he lied to cover his back. It's hard; I always valued his ardent honesty. To lie is still such a huge departure to his character and his principles.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Dig deeper into how his other behavior makes you feel about yourself and him. Is it really a deviation from his character, or just character starting to show? Nobody would have the answer but you, that's the nature of an intimate relationship.

Once you get over anger and focusing on only this one thing, you will be able to see the rest of the picture more clearly. Whatever that is.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

walkingwounded said:


> To be clear: I am the W. My H had an EA, and I feel we are at a pivotal point. I have been in some emotional turmoil and am looking at either walking away, or putting it behind us (forgiving him) and moving forward.
> 
> I am worried that saying I forgive him sends the message that he "got away with it." I feel a lot of resentment still that he lied. I also feel angry with myself for granting him that trust and that he took it and blew it apart.
> 
> I understand his reasons behind seeking the attention of this woman but find it hard to think that he lied to cover his back. It's hard; I always valued his ardent honesty. To lie is still such a huge departure to his character and his principles.


 You say you understand this reasons. Can you share them here. I am someone who feels very strongly that GOOD people can fall into situations like this -if NEEDS are not being met in the marriage. Some may want to jump on me for that, but that is fine. 

My question is this- did your husband TRY and TRY & TRY again to get your attention about something he needed in the marraige and you did not take it to heart, dismissed it 

OR he was a carelss heartless selfish man led astray by his own lust ?

Is he a good man generally- this is out of character for him- was he hurting & found solace in another who was more understanding , or you have had numerous incidents over the years with his being untrustworthy?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I could share with you a story behind the scenes (in a pm) that was truly amazing - about forgiveness over something like this -it is not about me, but another couple and I had a hand in the situation. I do not want to put it on here, but the way the wife handled it , BEAUTIFUL, I was so very impressed. I Know the man deserved her trust 100%. He was a hurting man and it was totally out of character for him to reach out to another . Her response -it was a wake up call for their marraige, she realized HER part, her neglect to her husband and it changed over night. She faught for him. That woman got it -she was not a doormat by any means by forgiving her husband.

So it really DEPENDS on the heart of the man & WHY he fell.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Forgiving is not the same things as forgetting. Forgiving does not make you a doormat nor is it a green light to do it again. You can forgive but stand firm as to the conditions of that forgiveness. You make your list of must haves in order to move forward and go from there.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

walkingwounded said:


> I will try and keep this brief, so here goes...
> 
> As a guy, imagine you messed up big time with your W. She finds out, is naturally upset, angry. You experience her turmoil in feeling let down by you, see her hurt. You lied to cover up your mistake(s) and she is further hurt by this.
> 
> ...


I think it really does depend on your intentions to forgive. Why you forgive. Your motivations for forgiving. What do you want back from your forgiveness?

For me, forgiving isn’t for the other person. It is initially exclusively for me. I forgive because I refuse to be a bitter and resentful person. I refuse to live with hatred for another in my heart. Why I do that is because I know hatred keeps out love and stops love from growing. It can also cause great internal physical damage as well as psychological/emotional damage to a person.

If I cannot forgive a person, if they have hurt me such that I dislike them so much that I cannot forgive them then I will no longer have anything to do with that person. I will not take a thing from them because to me that would be two faced, deceitful and not living with my integrity in tact.

On the other hand if a person genuinely asks for my forgiveness then I will give it to them but I will still having nothing to do with the person.

I think in a marriage things are very different. I think if you cannot forgive your spouse then you must leave them because your bitterness and resentment will do you both a great deal of emotional/psychological and physical harm.

So really it’s totally immaterial as to how your H responds to your forgiveness. Because your forgiveness is as much for you as it is for your H. On the other hand forgiveness without boundaries is I think very wrong. So when you forgive you must assert a boundary and that will be something like “If you ever do that again, it is over”.

If I was in your situation I’d research reconciliation processes or programmes because the two of you have been through conflict and really do need to reconcile. You know “Truth and Reconciliation”. When you are in the reconciliation process and only at that time should you look at any contributing factors based on your behaviour to your H’s affair . And to be really serious about things I’d go on a marriage enrichment programme.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

magnoliagal said:


> Forgiving is not the same things as forgetting. Forgiving does not make you a doormat nor is it a green light to do it again. You can forgive but stand firm as to the conditions of that forgiveness. You make your list of must haves in order to move forward and go from there.


One problem I have personally encountered in my own marriage is in forgiving too soon.

That is, that the offense to forgive was not fully aired or ended.

My wife chose to play at remorse and regret in order to get me off her back so she could continue cheating.

I had forgiven the so-called one-time "mistake" and did the whole marriage counseling, suck it in, move forward we're all flawed human beings and you love her thing.

I strongly believe she used my genuine wish to repair things and move on as as opportunity to go into deeper cover about her cheating.

She not having to pay any price whatsoever--beyond some uncomfortable discussions at the MC--allowed her to feel COMFORTABLE still cheating. and cheat for many years.

I didn't doormat it, I was attempting genuine reconciliation and she acted like she was too but was not. It was an act.

This I cannot forgive.

So we are to part so she doesn't infest my life any longer.

I'll leave it to she and her maker regarding forgiveness.

Not my problem anymore. She squandered a true gift given in the spirit of love.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Over the years I forgave too easily. And without boundaries. That’s why I introduced boundaries on TAM so others could learn from my mistakes.

But I will still and I think always will forgive because I believe in it. This time round it’s taking me a very long time. But I will get there. Hatred/strong dislike/anger can really screw a person up. But I think these feelings are there to keep me away from further harm. These feelings can eclipse love no matter how deep the love was.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

AFEH said:


> *For me, forgiving isn’t for the other person. It is initially exclusively for me. I forgive because I refuse to be a bitter and resentful person. I refuse to live with hatred for another in my heart. Why I do that is because I know hatred keeps out love and stops love from growing. It can also cause great internal physical damage as well as psychological/emotional damage to a person*.


:iagree:

Forgiveness and reconciliation are often used interchangeably but they are two totally different things.

In many infidelity situations, the betrayed spouse often reconciliates without truly forgiving his/her cheating spouse. Unfortunately, this serves no one and eventually leads to the demise of the marriage. 

In my situation I chose to forgive my ex-wife but refused reconciliation because I did not want to go through the 2 to 5 year period of emotional roller-coasters, doubts, and becoming a full time spy on my then wife. Was it easy? Hell No! I've often compared the decision to divorce my ex-wife with the amputation of one of my limbs without the benefit of anaesthesia and pain killing medication. Do I regret my decision to divorce her? No because a broken person cannot make a good spouse. Over a week ago, her friends and family performed an intervention and had her admitted to a psychiatric hospital for observation of suicidal tendencies.

Forgiving my ex-wife is and always will be for ME exclusively.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I need to rid myself of the burden of resentment that weighs on me. It is bringing me down and serving no purpose. Living wishing for a better past is not getting me anywhere.

I also did realise that I cannot base my forgiveness on my H's actions. I am doing this for me. We both want to continue our marriage and for that to be feasible, I have to forgive.

Yesterday I purged myself to H of my thoughts for the last two weeks. I told him how I had been feeling, the weight that I have been carrying around, and how I had realised that I would do one of two things: leave, or forgive and move forward together. I had thought it would be leave, which I had been planning for the last two weeks.

I forgave him. Said I felt we are all human, and make mistakes. I believe in second chances. But that I could not do this again.

I also said I felt we could use the rest of our MC to do something constructive; that is, set boundaries over what we both feel are appropriate (or not) behaviors, that way it is said, clear, and we don't have to go through it again.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

walkingwounded said:


> I forgave him. Said I felt we are all human, and make mistakes. I believe in second chances. But that I could not do this again.


To this, I say a hearty AMEN. 

I have good friends, known them since high school, they are Mormons, 4 kids, her husband did more than an EA, he had an affair, not sure how many nights -with no less someone she knew & called a friend. Granted, my friend was ignoring her husbands needs >> the house had to be in perfect order, no bills , and he had been laid off (back at that time) so the NO bills was a huge hinderance to their sex life. I am not trying to make excuses, but this is likely why this happened, this woman friend of hers was lonely, single & obviously one thing led to another. 

She calls me when all of this happens. Now I have never been in this situation, but I know this man loves her (this is like my husbads best friend, our kids play together, happy family most of the time) - He DID tell her about it- He confessed on his own, he knew he was wrong, he never wanted to hurt her again. 

The Church wanted her to leave him , even excommunicated him for X amount of yrs or something (not sure if that is the right term). She was torn. She had the authorities in the Church on her back. At one point she was getting angry with their adamance on her leaving her husband, like they think this is so easy to do!  She also knew what they had, but of coarse this was a real struggle emotionally for her. 

I encouraged her to stay, I stood by her. *She forgave him*, they worked it out, I can say with my own eyes, their marraige has never been happier, and like you, Walking Wounded, if it happens again, that IS the end. Nothing wrong with that!

THEY will even openly talk about this with us , he mentions it now & then in conversation if we are talking about marraige, sex , whatever (we are very communicatively open with our friends) -with shame in his eyes for what he did to his wife. The man had much much remorse for hurting his wife like this and he warns many other men to NOT do what he did. I find it very healthy that him & her can speak about this time -so openly before others. 

I KNOW my friend did the right thing in forgiving her husband. Hardships like this can even strengthen a marraige -when you work through these things. I miss them, they moved hours away, but always come back to see us.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

morituri said:


> :iagree:
> 
> II chose to forgive my ex-wife but refused reconciliation because I did not want to go through the 2 to 5 year period of emotional roller-coasters, doubts, and becoming a full time spy on my then wife. Was it easy? Hell No! I've often compared the decision to divorce my ex-wife with the amputation of one of my limbs without the benefit of anaesthesia and pain killing medication. Do I regret my decision to divorce her? No because a broken person cannot make a good spouse. Over a week ago, her friends and family performed an intervention and had her admitted to a psychiatric hospital for observation of suicidal tendencies.
> 
> Forgiving my ex-wife is and always will be for ME exclusively.


You made a decision that was best for you. Your ex wife bears the cost of her infidelity in a terrible way too. However, your hard line approach is indicative that your love wasn't perhaps deep enough but, more conditional since you choose to deliberately hurt her post divorce when you told her you were serious with another woman. Why did you do that? Is that the reason she is now suicidal? You saw the hurt and pain in her face after you said this to her. 

If you had truly forgiven her you could have politely asked how she was doing and said you were coping fine, but to tell her about the other woman you are now serious with post divorce smacks of a bit of revenge. Understandable I guess since anyone coping with infidelity suffers the most grievious of personal injuries and emotional harm.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bob,

It helps me tremendously to know "why" someone behaved the way they did.

If I can get to a plausible theory concerning motive/reason, it makes forgiving much easier.





AFEH said:


> Over the years I forgave too easily. And without boundaries. That’s why I introduced boundaries on TAM so others could learn from my mistakes.
> 
> But I will still and I think always will forgive because I believe in it. This time round it’s taking me a very long time. But I will get there. Hatred/strong dislike/anger can really screw a person up. But I think these feelings are there to keep me away from further harm. These feelings can eclipse love no matter how deep the love was.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Lazarus said:


> You made a decision that was best for you. Your ex wife bears the cost of her infidelity in a terrible way too. However, your hard line approach is indicative that your love wasn't perhaps deep enough but, more conditional since you choose to deliberately hurt her post divorce when you told her you were serious with another woman. Why did you do that? Is that the reason she is now suicidal? You saw the hurt and pain in her face after you said this to her.
> 
> If you had truly forgiven her you could have politely asked how she was doing and said you were coping fine, but to tell her about the other woman you are now serious with post divorce smacks of a bit of revenge. Understandable I guess since anyone coping with infidelity suffers the most grievious of personal injuries and emotional harm.


If you go back and re-read my posts regarding my last encounter with my ex-wife (we were already divorced), the reason I told her that I did not want her to give me her phone number is because at that time, I was - and still am - in a committed relationship with another woman. I did not enjoy informing her of this fact, just the opposite. So how does this prove that I set out to deliberately hurt her? How would hiding this truth from my ex-wife be beneficial to her? How would I be able to explain a card with my ex-wife's name and telephone number to my girlfriend? How would giving false hope to my ex-wife that I would be contacting her, actually be of any help? What if she had a boyfriend, would I be an honorable man to accept her phone number?

Love, even the unconditional kind you speak of, does not absolve us from the consequences of our actions, good or bad.


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## LuvMyH (Nov 11, 2009)

WW,

Forgiving your husband and giving him a second chance does not make you a doormat. I think you are being very wise about using the MC sessions to talk about and set boundaries. That is a good way to let your husband know that while you understand why the EA happened, you will not tolerate lines being crossed. As for the resentment and wishing for a better past- I've been there and it takes time for those feelings to fade. Should you decide to stay and work through it, there will be times when you have to work at not letting what happened in the past hinder the present. 

You used the phrase "pivotal point" and that's so true. When you forgive, it's not just about forgiving him. You also have to forgive yourself for the mistakes you've made. If your husband is truly repentant and the two of you work through this, you can be closer than before. For me, the trick is to stay in the now. It honestly gets easier with time and if you rebuild your marriage and truly forgive, there could even come a day when remembering the past doesn't hurt, it just makes you appreciate where you are today. 

The thought of being a doormat is really about your pride. From what you've written, I don't think your husband will see it that way. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks, it's your life and your marriage. Nobody but you and your husband really know what your relationship is really like. 

Best wishes!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

All so useful, thanks.

I had a bit of a moment yesterday. Something came on the TV that got me thinking about an ongoing issue. It's not directly related to what happened but is kinda tied in as regards my feelings.

I could feel the old pattern of thought kicking in so I went out of the room and had a bit of time to myself. When this happens I tell myself, am I going to feel the same later? If not then feel it and let it pass. If it will still be an issue, don't react now but wait until that 'panic' has died down and come at it from a less emotional, more rational perspective.

I am looking at things from the viewpoint that I trust he regrets what happened and is dedicated to moving forward. I know he does regret. I try and treat him as that person who IS committed rather than constantly doubting him and assuming he'll do the worst, and IMO he responds better to this.

I'm not sure what specifically to cover regarding boundaries, how detailed would you go? Is it productive to say, for example, "I would not tolerate you accepting another woman's number?" I know that's on the lesser side of what is crossing the line, but how do you outline the consequence: I mean, that forme is unacceptable but not-as-bad-as, kissing another woman. So what sort of consequence would be relative to a lesser "offense": just trying to bounce some ideas here? I am obviously hoping I never have to play this out. Do you have to outline a consequence when stating a boundary? Or is it enough that you say there will BE a consequence?


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## jai_mann (Jul 5, 2011)

walkingwounded said:


> What would she need to do to show that although she is prepared to forgive, it is not the green light to do it again? How does she stand dignified and resolute that she is giving you the gift of forgiveness and you must treat it with the respect and care it deserves? What is the difference between this woman and, well, a "doormat"?


Simplyamorous is correct. This is very context dependent. My wife and I are in the same boat as you and your wife. IMHO, you need to make sure that full disclosure occurs. She needs to know that you are willing to disclose the full truth with her, even if it is embarrassing, or in any other way aversive to you. That's part of showing that you're willing to suffer negative consequences, the negative emotions, etc. that come with doing some thing which you should not have done.

It also means, identifying the things that led you to do what you did. Even if it's uncomfortable to acknowledge them to yourself, or in front of her. Identifying these things may be difficult especially in front of her, but it shows an honest attempt to get to the root of the matter. I think this can take potentially hours, days, or weeks as you think about things yourself. Many people aren't used to analyzing themselves which is why they can get into trouble like this some times.

If you work to get at the root of things and then make changes in your life and hers accordingly, it should help prevent any sort of future occurrences. 

So far as you "getting away" with it. Well, you've already done it and you can't change that. Same thing with my unfaithful wife. So, either your wife has to be willing to try to forgive, but not forget, over time, or things won't work. Go out of your way to do things for her and show that you're thinking about her on top of trying to work through this issue. If you crossed a line that she just can't forgive, then you're both going to have to throw in the towel as contempt, hatred, resentment, and disgust are brewing in the background.


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