# I need help, advice bad! I need to save a marriage well worth saving!



## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

I have been married to a wonderful, confident, beautiful woman for right at 10 years now. I am in the Military and travel quite often. I have never been insure, or a jealous person. For the first 3 years of course our sex life was amazing in every way. We had my son around the 3 year mark and I can honestly say things remained the same. 

About 3 years ago her sex drive started to slow down. I would bring it up no and then but never nagged her about it. She would blame it on a diagnosed thyroid problem. She has had this problem her whole life, but has learned to manage her weight through extremely healthy life style and Crossfit. (She works out like a 5-6 days a week) After this started, I would just initiate it mostly and she would oblige and 80% would get into it. 

About 2 years ago I started to notice her lashing out at me disrespectful more often. I would usually respond to her in some fashion like "Really? Why the hell would say something like that to me? Do I talk to you like that?" I leave her allown and the situation would usually defuse itself quickly like nothing happened. The intimacy was quickly fading a while this bugged me immensely, she didn’t seem to care. It just wasn’t important to her to kiss me good bye, touch or hold my hand ect. 

I started finding myself buying her things, going out of my way to do everything for her. Surprise her with coffee at work. Like I was trying to by a normal sex life that I missed. 

This year I got back from Afghanistan about 195 days ago (I know my dwell time) When I got home Sex was great for about 1 week and things started to be the way they were. Only She was really detached from me. She would start going to Crossfit events without me and we were doing our own things on the weekends instead of together. Shame on me, but I don't even what to be around her sometimes, knowing I’m not going to get laid or enjoy the time with her. (I do Crossfit also but only 3-4 times a week so its not as though I wasn’t interested in the outings.) Sex has been 1 every month for awhile and it seems she just does it cause she feels bad cause I bring it up. I’ve ask her to talk to her doctor about it cause she says she doesn’t even know why, and that she doesn’t even masturbate anymore. Every once in a while I couldn’t take it anymore and I would lash out at her and bring up that we were going to end up divorced if something doesn’t change. But it never has.

I noticed that she never touched me, never complemented me, or didn’t care to have me around or not. Lately she gets home from the gym sits on the couch doing home work, messing around on her Ipad, or computer. She pretty much ignores me. I got so pissed off that I started to do the same. I ignored her. I stopped trying to have sex with her. I started masturbating daily and pretty much resent the hell out of her for it. 

We don't treat each other bad but, this for the first time is making me a little insecure. I started accusing her of cheating on me a couple of times. I started searching her computer for stuff looking at her texts to co-workers(guys) just being paranoid. She caught me and locked out her phone and computer and Ipad. Giving me crap saying why am I spying on her, and insisting that she isn’t cheating. I've been loosing my mind! I woke up a couple of times and she was in the living room masturbating in the last month. This pissed me off??? Why didn’t she just wake me up I tell her to I tell her how much I am attracted to her. This has been torturing me for the last month. I left in Feb for 1 week to TX for a TDY (business). That being said......

Last night I was helping her with home work and she went to take a shower. I went to her e-mail and saw a instant message name on the top of the list. The name said "Pitbull" I clicked on it and opened the conversations. She has been having online sexual relationship with this guy. It was explicit and very much sexual in great detail. It ripped my insides out when I read this crap. I feel like I am going to puke just typing about it. I printed the conversations off. I didn’t know if he was local at the time and I went to the bedroom.

After she got out of the shower, I sat her on the bed and held her hands . I told her to tell me the truth and accused her of screwing this guy. She said no and I started to read the conversations to her. She got that look of sorry, worried at first and as I keep going, and going no matter what she was saying , I keep reading. she got pissed, ripped the papers from my hand and tore them up into tiny pieces. It got ugly for a few seconds, but not violent as we wrestled for the papers. She kept saying what are you going to hit me? It was like she wanted me to? I swear I have never hit her. This make me believe that someone has. She told me she wasn’t cheating on me it was some guy she met on line and was just a thrill. She told me F()ck you twice! I was like "really that all you got? I walked away punched the wall, hard. I tried to calm down to no end. About a hour later I went to her in the living room and she apologized and showed me he was in CA and the site she met him on. She deleted everything and I was relieved to a certain extent. We had sex twice that night. WTH?

I told her I would get past this but we have to fix us. We talked about counseling. I don’t know. I’m hurt and confused! What do I do. How do I fix this, relationship? She is a amazing woman and I don’t want to leave her. But I have said that once, that was 2 weeks ago. But I’m very unhappy and maybe some what depressed! She has been very attentive to me the last two days but I am afraid I will just end up a week from now in the same situation resenting her more and no sex or intimacy at all. I had to talk to someone and this looks like the place. I’ve been larking here for awhile. Thanks in advance.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Well you started acting like a man, she started looking at you as a man and you finally had sex, twice.

I don't mean you should be violent, but do you see the difference from trying to appease her?

Read the sticky thread at the top of this men's section.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

i doubt this is her first rodeo just the first time you caught her. next time will be 10 times harder she knows where she made the mistake will be better at hiding it.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Is this some what normal? Can we overcome this?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Well you started acting like a man, she started looking at you as a man and you finally had sex, twice.
> 
> I don't mean you should be violent, but do you see the difference from trying to appease her?
> 
> Read the sticky thread at the top of this men's section.


I have and alot of it makes sense. Problem is I feel rage inside and have no outlet. What do I do? I feel some what guilty and dont have any reason too. My paranoid sense of her is worse now. Im angry at her for disrespecting me. I have been asking her for 6 months now to help me fix this. I got nothing?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> Is this some what normal?
> 
> Yes
> 
> ...


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Rage and resentment are normal, but not helpful. The rage of the bull always gets him killed in the arena. You must control the anger and learn to how to use the tools of relationships to help you. You must learn to be the leader of this relationship and put it back on course.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

-She gives you full access to all her electronics/communications.
E-mail, Phone Logs, Texts, all Social passwords.
-She writes this guy she's cybering a no contact letter.
-You try to stay home more if you can
-She goes nowhere without you

Just wait until you get access to those phone logs & texts if she hasn't already been on a deletion spree you're in for the second sucker punch.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Tacoma is right. She must give you all of those and you must look for anything else. If she is 100% honest, transparent and is in it to make the M work, you have a chance to rebuild your relationship.

No more doing your own thing for either of you. You should have started dating again as soon as you got back.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Rage and resentment are normal, but not helpful. The rage of the bull always gets him killed in the arena. You must control the anger and learn to how to use the tools of relationships to help you. You must learn to be the leader of this relationship and put it back on course.


I understand that and I agree. Im a pretty even keyed guy. I always thought I was the leader. I really wish I knew and could understand what she is going through. What is makeing her act this way. What made her reach out to another man? She says she doesnt know. That just doesnt fly, she has to know something.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

tacoma said:


> -She gives you full access to all her electronics/communications.
> E-mail, Phone Logs, Texts, all Social passwords.
> -She writes this guy she's cybering a no contact letter.
> -You try to stay home more if you can
> ...


Its only been two days and I havent looked to see if they are all locked. But I suspect so. How do I aproach this conversation with her with out being a a$$ about it and causeing a extremely bad fight. I don't think the rage inside me needs a reason to show its ugly head it would be really, really bad!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

We all have needs, her's weren't being filled and she looked else where. I'm not saying it's your fault she had an emotional cyber affair, that's 100% on her. I'm saying the problems in a marriage are at best 50/50. You were away for a long while and when you got back neither one of you knew how to bond again

Would you like to see the reasons why? Would you like to see how to continue?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> We all have needs, her's weren't being filled and she looked else where. I'm not saying it's your fault she had an emotional cyber affair, that's 100% on her. I'm saying the problems in a marriage are at best 50/50. You were away for a long while and when you got back neither one of you knew how to bond again
> 
> Would you like to see the reasons why? Would you like to see how to continue?


Deffinatly, I have deployed 13 times in 20year and 6 months in the military. I am scheduled to leave for 6 months again in Sept.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

01coltcolt said:


> Its only been two days and I havent looked to see if they are all locked. But I suspect so. How do I aproach this conversation with her with out being a a$$ about it and causeing a extremely bad fight. I don't think the rage inside me needs a reason to show its ugly head it would be really, really bad!


Dude if your demanding to see her communications after what you just busted her with results in her starting a fight then you simply end the relationship.
There's no way you can stand for that **** and keep any respect from anyone.

If she's doing anything other than kissing your ass like her life depends on it then she's doesn't really give a damn.

Who needs that after the **** she just pulled on you?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> Its only been two days and I havent looked to see if they are all locked. But I suspect so. How do I aproach this conversation with her with out being a a$$ about it and causeing a extremely bad fight. I don't think the rage inside me needs a reason to show its ugly head it would be really, really bad!


Ask her if she's into working on the marriage? If she is she must give you these two things, honesty and transparency. That's the only way it can work. There can only be two in a relationship, not three. If she won't give you these things, you will have to tell her you won't stay in a marriage with three.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Dude if your demanding to see her communications after what you just busted her with results in her starting a fight then you simply end the relationship.
> There's no way you can stand for that **** and keep any respect from anyone.
> 
> If she's doing anything other than kissing your ass like her life depends on it then she's doesn't really give a damn.
> ...


Your right, but I am being tactful with my approach. Im not going to go off have ****ed and out of my mind, just to lead to pushing her furture away. But I am going to have that conversation, about the computers, phone ect and full disclosure. If I dont Im afraid them being locked is only going to fuel my fears and anger.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Ask her if she's into working on the marriage? If she is she must give you these two things, honesty and transparency. That's the only way it can work. There can only be two in a relationship, not three. If she won't you will have to tell her you won't stay in a marriage with three.


Im pretty sure I can do that. Im not afraid of conflict, but the wrong kind of conflict. There is a wrong kind of conflict, Ive seen many in my job. The way I feel is out of control. I don't like that, its not me, to be raged like this. Its like a balloon is expanding in my chest and I can't think straight.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

You just found out! You're emontions are on overdrive. You are right about making the wrong decisions now. Get to the M.D. and grt somthing to take the edge off. You're not doing bad right now. You had the confrontation. She brooke it off with him. She's bonding with you. Good first steps. There is more to do, but it doesn't all have to happen tonight.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Here are the manuals. You're behind the curve on this, time to play catchup. 

Surviving an Affair: Willard F. Jr. Harley

Married Man Sex Life


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

01coltcolt said:


> Your right, but I am being tactful with my approach. Im not going to go off have ****ed and out of my mind, just to lead to pushing her furture away. But I am going to have that conversation, about the computers, phone ect and full disclosure. If I dont Im afraid them being locked is only going to fuel my fears and anger.


Here's the thing.

You don't know the extent of what she's been doing.
You found one cyber affair, how many do you think she's had or is having at the same time?
How do you know none of these ever went to real life?

Do you think she's going to voluntarily admit a single damn thing she doesn't absolutely have to?

Do you really think you were incredibly lucky enough to stumble upon the one & only inappropriate relationship she's ever had in your history?
C'monnnn..

You should already have the access to that E-Mail & phone or it's worthless anyway unless you restore a back up because if I were her I'd be deleting the hell out of everything like a madwoman right now.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Here's the thing.
> 
> You don't know the extent of what she's been doing.
> You found one cyber affair, how many do you think she's had or is having at the same time?
> ...


Okay, so I just got home from work. I work nights. I told her I was on my way and I needed to talk to her. She waited up and was being cool ask me to come to bed and talk she was tied and has to get up early. I Told her I had two things I needed her to understand:
1. That cyber relationship, real fake, imagined or what ever the "F' it was is unacceptable to me. Just incase I had not made it clear already. She took that well.

2. Then I sat on the bed and told her. " I know you said you want to work on our marriage, and work this out, right?" She said Yes. I said" I need two things from you right now cause I am not okay." "I need honesty and transparency with your phone, computer, and Ipad. If you have nothing to hide then there wouldn't be passwords on them."

She said" I wouldn't have done that if you wouldn't have start looking and accusing me of cheating on you." (She said it condescending, like it is my fault.). I then got anger and said it is what it is. Its not on the table for negotiation." I told her in anger "You will not flip this on me I didn't do anything wrong." "You will not try to make me fell bad for being your husband and wanting to no whats wrong, by looking at you stuff." "if you have nothing to hide you wouldn't be hiding from me." She said I don't have nothing to hide." I said Obviously you did!" and I shut the door hard. I am leaving it at that. 

Thank you for making me do that it needed to happen, and I didn't loose it to bad. I think I lost it just enough. The ball is in her court now. Just sayin................


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Here are the manuals. You're behind the curve on this, time to play catchup.
> 
> "Suviving an Affair" by W Harley
> 
> "Married Man Sex Life" by Athol Kay


I think I can get past the online affair fairly easily. I just need her to come around sexually and intimately. If I can fix that sorry we, We can be okay. I hope I handled what I just did right. I ask for what you said about "Honesty and transparency" I even used your words and didn't loose my cool to bad. But was perfectly clear. (See response above)Thank you


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

One more thing she said during "the Honesty and transparency conversation."
"She said I'm over analyzing things." My response "BS I know exactly what I'm talking about and the online relationship is not healthy for our marriage, that's already having problems and you know it." "I told her that shxx is dangerous to us and will lead straight to worse things!"


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sounds like you handled that pretty darn well!

Her cyber affair has kept her from bonding with her husband. It has kept your relationship from growing back together. Maybe she has become conditioned to guard her heart if she knows she is facing another deployment, but there are better and healthier ways not to fall apart when her husband is off defending the country!

You know what you want in your marriage, right? Tell her, paint the picture of your perfect marriage relationship for her. Tell her that in order to get that, she has to put everything else out of her mind. Any on line friends or lovers ( that whole thing is just creepy!) have to go complete black out. All her focus and energy, as well as yours, will be on communicating, spending time with each other, dating each other, getting to know each other, learning to depend on one another all over again.

Keep your boundaries clear, consise and firm, just as you did in the conversation, above. Dont allow her moods to go unnoticed, call her out on them. Dont walk away when she is f restarted and angry, keep talking and if being in the same room is too difficult at times, neither of you can seek solace on the computer, Ipad or online conversations. Your goal is to reform the attachment and that can't be done if your (as in both of you) habit of seeking separate corners continues.

Have her read up on cyber affairs in the Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice web site so she understands what you expect of her. I am a woman and I think loss of privacy is the natural consequence of cheating. This is not a punishment, but if she wants your marriage to work, she has to suck it up and help you get your sense of security back.

Thank you for your service. Do you have another deployment in your future?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Sounds like you handled that pretty darn well!
> 
> Her cyber affair has kept her from bonding with her husband. It has kept your relationship from growing back together. Maybe she has become conditioned to guard her heart if she knows she is facing another deployment, but there are better and healthier ways not to fall apart when her husband is off defending the country!
> 
> ...


Thank you for the sound advice. Its a hard life style, both of us are in the military. She is a Dental Hygienist so has a stead 7-4 job, no deployments. I do not shift work and going on #14 deployment in Sept this year. But it should be my last.

Its really hard to have the time together you speak of, and we have seriously not got that time together since my son came along. I plan here this month to take a trip and surprise her. I also am planning some week ends too. Im going to try really hard to fix this. I just hope she doesn't mistake my anger and passion about this and run away cause she is not used to seeing my be this assertive or angry.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

01coltcolt said:


> I just hope she doesn't mistake my anger and passion about this and run away cause she is not used to seeing my be this assertive or angry.


that may be part of your problem.

You did well in drawing the boundary about transparency.

When you get home ask for her passwords and accounts..


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

tacoma said:


> that may be part of your problem.
> 
> ..


I know where your going with that. Let me rephrase elaborate. In the last 10 years of marriage we have had a pretty above average relationship. We don't fight about money, hobbies, friends, going out, and all the other usual problems. We get along perfect. But the lack of sex and intimacy has become a huge issue and is driving the anger. I have been pretty anger and frustrated in the last 3 months. We have never had a problem with communication. She does accuse me of being to arrogant. I disagree I am confident in just about all that I do. Not in a bragging way. This is why I've not dealt with this in the past 6 months very well. My own ego an need to fix this has been kicking my axx bad. I have even somewhat felt depressed for the first time in my life. When I say not delt with it correctly I have held it inside know something was jacked up. Its been eating me from the inside cause I had no proof, and didn't want to believe she would do that to me. That resentment stage is well into rage. I completely don't understand what happened to us.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Read Bullwinkle's thread in going through divorce. To sum it up he was a doormat in the beginning out of the house but manned up and is back in. Cool, calm, and dispassionate. Show her you have options(fake it bro) for now.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Tell her no more pw protected anything! There is no privacy in marriage, period.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

01coltcolt said:


> Thank you for the sound advice. Its a hard life style, both of us are in the military. She is a Dental Hygienist so has a stead 7-4 job, no deployments. I do not shift work and going on #14 deployment in Sept this year. But it should be my last.
> 
> Its really hard to have the time together you speak of, and we have seriously not got that time together since my son came along. I plan here this month to take a trip and surprise her. I also am planning some week ends too. Im going to try really hard to fix this. I just hope she doesn't mistake my anger and passion about this and run away cause she is not used to seeing my be this assertive or angry.


Dont fret soldier boy. Chicks dig assertive men!


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Tell her no more pw protected anything! There is no privacy in marriage, period.


After tonight I'm sure this is not going to be the last time. Unless she blows my mind and does what I said. I got a bad feeling about that compliance not happening. I'm going to get pissed and demand transparency again? Then what if it doesn't happen I'm going to leave her? Not so simple............


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

01coltcolt said:


> That resentment stage is well into rage. I completely don't understand what happened to us.


Rage...that is something you already know you have to get a grip on, though no one can fault you for feeling enraged.

What happened? Drift. You grew apart. You stopped putting each other first and started taking each other for granted. Every marriage goes through this in some degree. People aren't stagnant creatures. We change and evolve and when we each are off doing our own thing, we drift apart and stop getting that loving feeling toward each other.

But you can get it back! Takes work and a lot of effort, communication, ...and some dancing too. 

ETA, your boundaries will save the marriage! If she refuses, she is choosing NOT to save the marriage! She is making that choice not you!


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Rage...that is something you already know you have to get a grip on, though no one can fault you for feeling enraged.
> 
> What happened? Drift. You grew apart. You stopped putting each other first and started taking each other for granted. Every marriage goes through this in some degree. People aren't stagnant creatures. We change and evolve and when we each are off doing our own thing, we drift apart and stop getting that loving feeling toward each other.
> 
> ...


 I told her last night we needed a night out to go dancing. Good lord, I miss that! If she ends up refusing I don't think I could bring myself to anything worse than being verbally and emotionally mad about it. I don't want to leave her ever. It is a hard thing to find the right woman and I know with all my being that we are together cause god made that happen.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lately, this urge has been cropping up... If she refuses lemme at her! My H never takes me dancing! Course we're old and arthritic... But still!


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Lately, this urge has been cropping up... If she refuses lemme at her! My H never takes me dancing! Course we're old and arthritic... But still!


I'm sure he would take you out to dance with you. I am a believe that no age is to old for romance. You should ask. Thank you by the way for your responses. I need to here a woman's point of view, it calms me.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

I wish I didn't have this automate almost systematic feeling that I always need to fix everything. Its almost like a self-inflicted stress I put on myself. It has helped me have a very successful career, but it spills over into ever aspect of my life. I put pressure on myself to be the best or to be perfect at everything. I know that its important to handle failure properly. I think failure builds character and makes you try harder, when you are truly passionate about things. My wife knows this about me maybe that's why she says I'm over analyzing this. Or maybe that her way of dumbing this down and shifting the blame so she can try to justify the current state of the relationship. I understand that its 50/50 in fault. I'm sure I did something to cause this. I just need to understand what so the pattern is not repeated. Knowing and believing that process makes it easier for me to move on. I think I will get past this. But I fear future repeats of this current state or worse.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Rage and resentment are normal, but not helpful. The rage of the bull always gets him killed in the arena. You must control the anger and learn to how to use the tools of relationships to help you. You must learn to be the leader of this relationship and put it back on course.


I often will teach this in a Enlisted Force Structure class I teach to Non Commissioned Officers (Side gig I enjoy) When I talk about it I speak of never make a decision when your angry. Emotional decisions are 90% of the time wrong. Calm down and then think it through. Its been tough for me to practice what I preach with this situation, but thus far its kept me grounded.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Here are the tools. This is how a marriage should work. Get the book this morning. It will give you an understanding about what happened and how to proceed. That's what you want, isn't it? To understand what happened. It's a fast and easy read.

Here is a jump start. Follow the links to the emotional needs that we all have. 

Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage: Willard F. Jr. Harley

It's time that the habits that build walls and resentment between you two are put aside and the bonding begins. With resentment you will only insulate yourself more and shut the other out, for fear of rejection and heartbreak.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

01colt,

While you are waiting passively for her to reveal her PWs and accounts, do yourself a favor and start checking the cell phone records. Go online with your carrier and review the texts/calls she's been making or receiving.

Look for a lot of calls/texts to one or two numbers that you don't recognize. This would be an indication that her cyber affair was also spilling over into other avenues of comms.

Time away from a spouse is a real relationship killer. She probably was looking for someone to fill the void while you were deployed. This isn't an excuse for her but something you need to recognize as you move towards your September deployment. You have 5 months to get the two of you into counseling and to try and make progress before you ship out. Make every minute count.

Sorry to be blunt but I have to ask. If you find out that she has had a physical relationship with someone while you were away, would you still want to R?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

01coltcolt said:


> I wish I didn't have this automate almost systematic feeling that I always need to fix everything. Its almost like a self-inflicted stress I put on myself. It has helped me have a very successful career, but it spills over into ever aspect of my life. I put pressure on myself to be the best or to be perfect at everything. I know that its important to handle failure properly. I think failure builds character and makes you try harder, when you are truly passionate about things. My wife knows this about me maybe that's why she says I'm over analyzing this. Or maybe that her way of dumbing this down and shifting the blame so she can try to justify the current state of the relationship. I understand that its 50/50 in fault. I'm sure I did something to cause this. I just need to understand what so the pattern is not repeated. Knowing and believing that process makes it easier for me to move on. I think I will get past this. But I fear future repeats of this current state or worse.



Being a fixer myself, I agree that tempering the urge to fix things can be a life saver. It is very frustrating to those of us who are fixers to deal with people who seem to not only lack insight but lack a sense of ownership onto their own unhappiness.

This is what your wife has been doing. For whatever reason, she felt unhappy in the marriage and instead of trying to identify what was or wasn't happening, instead of seeking to fix her unhappiness, she sought out novelty elsewhere. Granted, self analysis doesn't always lead to accurate insight, but at some point she had to wonder if what she was doing was right. Instead of concluding it wasn't, she rationalized that it was not completely wrong. I can see how a cyber affair can be rationalized, by either sex...and it kind of does fall into that gray area. She should have sought to fix her relationship with you but instead she allowed faulty rationalization to lead her astray.

She was bored and trolling the net to find something new and interesting. Maybe it had nothing to do with sex per say? Perhaps she ended up on that site the first few times out of sheer curiosity and a few giggles. Maybe she was surprised that she got turned on? Maybe reading erotic passages enflamed her and step by step it morphed into a cyber circle jerk, then morphed into a cyber relationship. 

Women like novelty, a LOT more than men do. We change our hair style, we change our hair color, even our eye color. We update our wardrobes and want to paint the walls a different color every few years. Men... Y'all could wear the same comfortable pair of slacks every day, same hair cut, never think about changing the color of the walls...In the absense of conflict, men would do the same thing all the time and it would take YEARS to get bored, while women have undergone several transformations just for the heck of it!

I'll tell you a secret, but you can't tell any women...
We HATE it when our men understand us better than we do ourselves. Granted, that rarely happens, but when it does, we accuse men of "over analyzing." Next time you hear that accusation, give it right back and remind her that had SHE spent any time in honest self reflection none of this would have happened, because she would have put that effort into the marriage instead of hiding her newly discovered affinity for cybersex. <- This would be your cue to start writing her erotic letters but only if she sets up the web cam first...(you're welcome!)


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Toffer said:


> 01colt,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I get it, but I tried to talk to her as often as possible when gone. We have always handled it well until around 3 years ago.

I'm not afraid of blunt. I was married before when I was younger for 3.5 years. I was sent to Korea for a 1 year tour. We were done by mid tour. I was told by respected elders he (the other guy) was staying in my house. It ended badly. She never admitted it and I walked away with nothing. I never spoke to her again till this day. 

The X caused my wife and I some financial issue a few years back. It was minor but we were buying a home and I was pissed. I found my x on a persons locater site. I never called her, but gave the creditor her name, info and provided a sep/div decree that had dates that relieved me from responsibility. To my surprise the X had married and divorced the other man.

So to the question above............................


'If you find out that she has had a physical relationship with someone while you were away, would you still want to R?"

I'm not sure what I would do, really.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

01coltcolt said:


> If you find out that she has had a physical relationship with someone while you were away, would you still want to R?
> I'm not sure what I would do, really.




This where I get in trouble with the men on this forum because I don't carry the same opinion.

Don't go there. Focus on doing what will take you closer to what you want. You start thinking about what if's and then you start acting out of proportion to what you know the truth to be. 

Lets keep it real for a moment here. Your wife has had a cyber affair. A woman who is involved with a physical affair isn't going to be simultaneously seeking out a cyber affair, unless you have totally and completely misjudged her character. And you don't sound like a complete idiot so I don't think that is likely!

Deal with what's in front of you. Not what other people have put in front of you!


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> This where I get in trouble with the men on this forum because I don't carry the same opinion.
> 
> Don't go there. Focus on doing what will take you closer to what you want. You start thinking about what if's and then you start acting out of proportion to what you know the truth to be.
> 
> ...


I like it, sound advise. I don't need anything not real rolling around in my mind. I have to focus on the task at hand and that is our "Intimacy." Lots of guys mistake intimacy for sex. I do not. I recognize that one maybe related some what to the other, because of females needs. But men need it to. My wife used to come to me and say hold me, and then just hug me for 1 minute. I truly miss that and if I can find that, the sexual part should fix itself. I think...............


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Other than, "You are the most beautiful woman I have ever seen!" Your "I like it, sound advice." Comes a close second to sentences I can never hear enough!


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm glad I found this website. I feel like I'm capable of turning my marriage around. I'm waiting on a couple books you all suggested.. I just read a long thread in "Sex problems" It made me feel good about my out look. I was so mad by the end of it, for this poor guy.. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/68887-ld-thyroid-9.html


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

I just punched a wall in anger. Don't do that not recommended! Im bleeding and accomplished nothing


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

How many holes in the walls are there now?

Calm. calm. calm. Every time you have an outburst you fall another step back and she pulls away a step more. 

What happened?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> How many holes in the walls are there now?
> 
> Calm. calm. calm. Every time you have an outburst you fall another step back and she pulls away a step more.
> 
> What happened?


Still no compliance with the computer, Ipad or phone. She says I'm freaking out and its stressing her out..................Really?? Stressing her out?? How about making me crazy!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Then that's the answer. She's hiding something more. 

She may be afraid you'll go off the deep end if you see all she did. 

Or 

She may not have stopped. 

You won't know what has happened, until she proves what she has told you.

That's the way for you to gain back your trust in her. With out that how will you know she has stopped putting efforts and emotions into an A, that should be put into the marriage. 

Now for other options. 
You're your own worst enemy here. She doesn't trust you either. She may be living in fear of what will happen if everything comes out. If you want to move forward with her cooperation, your going to have convince her that she can give it up without retribution. Control yourself or you grantee a loss. 

Or
You'll have to go into intell mode and discretely monitor her communications and retrieve whats there. Using spyware, key loggers, text retrievers, vars, ect....

Or
Lay it out. You're fighting for the marriage, but without you being able to trust she's being honest with you, you can't go on with the marriage. This will take the control away from her. You set your boundary, she takes it or leaves it.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

BTW, anyone bring up MC? Did you get "His Needs, Her needs" yet?

Has she expressed wanting to work on the marriage on come up with her own ideas?

What's her point of view on all this?


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## silentghost (Jan 28, 2013)

Soldier boy.....I wished I could really help you. 
I'm married to a man who is in the same postition as your wife..no affection, no intimacy, and no romance. Fortunately....he has not one cheating bone in his body...(neither do I) which is the saving grace in our marriage.
Hang in there and try to work something out with your wife. In the end when the relationship just can't come around....you can walk out knowing YOU TRIED!
I feel sorry for you...I really do. It's wives like yours that I would love to smack...because alot of us women (even myself) would love to have husbands that would compliment us, give us affection and whatnot. 
So yeah....do what you can, set your boundaries and be strong (even if you have to fake it).


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

01coltcolt said:


> Still no compliance with the computer, Ipad or phone. She says I'm freaking out and its stressing her out..................Really?? Stressing her out?? How about making me crazy!


Did you bring it up again or are you just expecting her to respect you and fulfill your request without you asking again?

If you have 't tell her again you wnt access and you want it right now.

If she even hesitates don't say a word, just walk away and tomorrow call to a lawyer and get some D papers served ASAP

Do this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Her giving up her passwords is one thing to show her sincerity in R, but you still have to verify she isn't in contact with another man without her knowing. Snoop a little yourself. She could give up passwords to some accounts but secretly open up new methods without you knowing. It happens all the time when the cheating spouse isn't remorseful.

Also I agree with tacoma. If she doesn't give up her pw's, its time to put your foot down. Having her served with divorce papers will shake her up and show how serious you are.


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## biola (Dec 28, 2012)

silentghost said:


> Soldier boy.....I wished I could really help you.
> I'm married to a man who is in the same postition as your wife..no affection, no intimacy, and no romance. Fortunately....he has not one cheating bone in his body...(neither do I) which is the saving grace in our marriage.
> Hang in there and try to work something out with your wife. In the end when the relationship just can't come around....you can walk out knowing YOU TRIED!
> I feel sorry for you...I really do. It's wives like yours that I would love to smack...because alot of us women (even myself) would love to have husbands that would compliment us, give us affection and whatnot.
> So yeah....do what you can, set your boundaries and be strong (even if you have to fake it).


I'm sorry for your situation,but it would be beneficial for you to start your own thread in order for people to get full understanding of your circimstances and give some mich neede advice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## silentghost (Jan 28, 2013)

biola....I wasn't looking for advice or anything like that.
I just wanted to let him know that I do feel sorry for him, and I do support him in trying to save his marrige....I just don't have much for advice to give other than to stay strong and set his boundaries. That's all.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> BTW, anyone bring up MC? Did you get "His Needs, Her needs" yet?
> 
> Has she expressed wanting to work on the marriage on come up with her own ideas?
> 
> What's her point of view on all this?


I ordered it from Amazon. Looking forward to the read. Thank you.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

silentghost said:


> Soldier boy.....I wished I could really help you.
> I'm married to a man who is in the same postition as your wife..no affection, no intimacy, and no romance. Fortunately....he has not one cheating bone in his body...(neither do I) which is the saving grace in our marriage.
> Hang in there and try to work something out with your wife. In the end when the relationship just can't come around....you can walk out knowing YOU TRIED!
> I feel sorry for you...I really do. It's wives like yours that I would love to smack...because alot of us women (even myself) would love to have husbands that would compliment us, give us affection and whatnot.
> So yeah....do what you can, set your boundaries and be strong (even if you have to fake it).


Actually, thank you for your words of encouragement. I a I stated before calms me to hear a females response and rational answers, and advise. I think its not understanding why or how to fix this that fuels my inner rage.

Its good to hear not all hope is lost that normal woman exist. Please don't feel sorry for me. I'll recover no matter the out come. But I think Ill seek a female therapist. Lol...... so I don't take someone's head off.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Explain this???

I race 4 wheelers (hobby), that being said had collar bone broken in a accident last month, it happens. I was at the doctors today, front desk checking in. A nurse about 28, very cute comes out and says to the girl at the counter, "did you eat yet?" The girl at the desk said yes. She said "okay then.........." I without thinking responded I haven't, where are you taking me. (I know what your all thinking, stand by.) She was very pretty no make up, was about 5'6" Hispanic girl 28ish and a playful demeanor about her. Looks like my wife, (my wife's from Puerto Rico.)

My response was auto, didn't mean to. The pretty girl locked her arm around mine and said "where are you taking me?" "She then smiled, touched my hand and said I'm going to get fired." and left. Oh for god sake. I'm 39 and look 30ish, Im in great shape and good looking. I have a successful career that pays well. What is wrong with my wife!!!

This was very gratifying but at the same time fueled my anger towards my wife, WTH?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I hear you! It feels like a rejection, that there's something wrong with you that she sees. When other people are validating your attraction it feels great AND makes you mad because the one at home doesn't. Totally get that! But stay away from allowing your anger and hurt to make things worse by following through with thoughts.

Whats going on with your wife? Has she opened everything up? Are you guys talking?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Has she expressed wanting to work on the marriage on come up with her own ideas?
> 
> What's her point of view on all this?


She says she really wants to work on the marriage. She is coming back from a doctors appointment in Atlanta and was on the road. We talked on the phone today for 3 hours and it was a great conversation! I brought up the com, Ipad and Phone and she seems willing to open them to me. I explained this was something that has to happen for me to move forward. She isn't home yet we will see how that plays out. Ill probably have to approach it again..........


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Excellent! Very glad to know you two are talking and beginning to work things out!

I think you both should go to the marriage builders web site and read, research together. Talk about what you read and open up to each other. You may be surprised...


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Excellent! Very glad to know you two are talking and beginning to work things out!
> 
> I think you both should go to the marriage builders web site and read, research together. Talk about what you read and open up to each other. You may be surprised...


I have to check that out. Thank you.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> She says she really wants to work on the marriage. She is coming back from a doctors appointment in Atlanta and was on the road. We talked on the phone today for 3 hours and it was a great conversation! I brought up the com, Ipad and Phone and she seems willing to open them to me. I explained this was something that has to happen for me to move forward. She isn't home yet we will see how that plays out. Ill probably have to approach it again..........



CALMLY! Like you told her, you just need to get this out of the way. 
Assure her you won't lose it. 

Read this while your waiting for her to come home. Open your eyes.

A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts


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## silentghost (Jan 28, 2013)

I hope things are going to work out for you and she will lay all things bare on the table and hopefully after this you and your wife will be on the road to healing in your marriage.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

coltcolt.

If and when you get ahold of that iPad you're going to want to back it up to a computer.
NOT the computer it's usually backed up to if it is.
If it is usually backed up to a computer you're going to want that computer too.

I say all this because she's had over 24 hours to delete and wipe clean(hell I wouldn't be surprised to see you get a factory restore) everything she needed to.

You're going to want clean back ups old and new if possible.
Those she can't delete.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

I just ruined a good day. I feel like such a a$$ right now. I got to get counciling. Because I am loosening it in my head!!!! I just went through her computer. I found 2 pictures of a guy. One self phone shot. An one of her in a bar next to him. Nothing of any note an I exploded. When she got home. I accused her of it an told her I know an left. I don't know Sh--. An not she's talking of leaveing an that I'm stressing her out. She adimittly denies any thing. It was from when she was at school 4 mths ago. I want to believe her. There is no proof of anything. I'm acting crazy, for real! I need to get help fast before I destroy my family!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Get to the M.D. now.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> I just ruined a good day. I feel like such a a$$ right now. I got to get counciling. Because I am loosening it in my head!!!! I just went through her computer. I found 2 pictures of a guy. *One self phone shot. An one of her in a bar next to him*. Nothing of any note an I exploded. When she got home. I accused her of it an told her I know an left. I don't know Sh--. An not she's talking of leaveing an that I'm stressing her out. She adimittly denies any thing. It was from when she was at school 4 mths ago. I want to believe her. There is no proof of anything. I'm acting crazy, for real! I need to get help fast before I destroy my family!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing of any note? Those two photos constitute a smoking gun. Quit deluding yourself. Is adultery a deal killer for you?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

No proof of anything? Well you have a picture of your wife with another guy at a bar. It's not too complicated to figure out the rest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

01coltcolt said:


> I just ruined a good day. I feel like such a a$$ right now. I got to get counciling. Because I am loosening it in my head!!!! I just went through her computer. I found 2 pictures of a guy. One self phone shot. An one of her in a bar next to him. Nothing of any note an I exploded. When she got home. I accused her of it an told her I know an left. I don't know Sh--. An not she's talking of leaveing an that I'm stressing her out. She adimittly denies any thing. It was from when she was at school 4 mths ago. I want to believe her. There is no proof of anything. I'm acting crazy, for real! I need to get help fast before I destroy my family!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course you're upset! But yeah, you are not doing yourself any favors right now. You have to maintain a touch of calm. Take deep breaths, walk around the block, run around the block. Do what you need to do to keep calm! 

Remind yourself why you are still there and NOT already packed to leave. Remind yourself of the goal... To get this fixed! 

I think you're gonna be okay. I think your marriage will survive this. I hope you can learn to IGNORE posts that only incite and inflame rather than help your to refocus on what you want!

Post again... How're you doing now?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Of course you're upset! But yeah, you are not doing yourself any favors right now. You have to maintain a touch of calm. Take deep breaths, walk around the block, run around the block. Do what you need to do to keep calm!
> 
> Remind yourself why you are still there and NOT already packed to leave. Remind yourself of the goal... To get this fixed!
> 
> ...


I think I feel depressed for the first time in my life. Anon Pink sometimes I think if it wasn't for your advise I maybe in jail. I sat in my truck outside a closed gas station all night instead of going back to work. I'm the boss, and it would not be a good idea to let me subordinates see weakness in me. They all look up to me and talk to me, I need it to stay that way. Moral is high in my 56 person flight I run. 

After doing some real soul searching and whole lot of praying I've decided this. She gave me the computer password, Phone and Ipad. Seriously I'm not going to look, anymore. What good at this point will come of it? You guys right now are going WTH is wrong with him? I can hear it now. But Im 39 years old and I know myself. I have decided that if she did anything real, cyber or imagined, I don't want to know! Seriously I can see what a cyber affair has done to in in just 5 days. I turned into a raging ball of testosterone, rolling around lying devastation to my family and most of all myself!

I have decided no matter what I am going to forgive and I am keeping her, period! I will not survive it, if I leave. I am not blaming myself nor have I apologized for the way I have been acting. II told her I will not apologize for loving her and wanting to fight anything or anyone for her. 

Here is a picture of me if I leave or she leaves me:
1. I'll be a alcoholic, stopped liquor years ago..
2. Ill go into self destructive mode, recklessly not caring anymore.
3. I have a line of woman I turn to for solace and end up treating them badly. The grass is not greener, I promise you that.
4. My wife will see this and tell me I cant be around my son and need help.
5. My son will grow up hurt that I'm not there all the time. He is seven and my friend we do everything together.
6. I'll wreck my career, cause I don't care anymore, or my reckless behavior will be noticed.

Can't be that man! I love her, she loves me and I think in time and us trying Ill get over what I can't prove. What I have is lots of blessings in my life with her, and some real needs that can be met when we try. I have a plan to get back on track and I'm pretty good at things, why not try? Thank you again for sound, advice that is grounding and calming my internal rage.

I laid in bed with her when I got home. Held her for awhile. I didn't say anything. She I thought was asleep she started rubbing my hair, and seemed to fall asleep. She works long and hard like me. She runs a dental clinic. I kissed and left the room. Here I am..........talking to the only friends I have.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Get to the M.D. now.


What is M.D. ?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Colt, you're only 5 days out from learning about all this. There is a range of emotions you are going to go through, not all pleasant, as you process this rage, hurt, anger, self loathing, hate, grief, fear. You're going to cycle in and out of this and while you're doing this, you are still expected to maintain yourself and your schedule like normal, which seems a very difficult task.

Right now all of your thoughts, feeling and subsequent decisions are based on the above emotions. Two weeks from now, you will feel a little different, two months from now, even more so.

Your decision not to investigate any further is, IMO, a very good one for right now. You are protecting yourself. Instinctively you know how much heartache you can handle and you have reached your limit for the time being. Everyone reacts differently and every situation is different. If you think this is best, then go with it.

Would it be possible for your son to stay with relatives for the weekend? This is so fresh you and your wife really need some uninterrupted time together...

Keep posting, keep talking.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> What is M.D. ?


Get to a medical doctor. 

Ask him to give you something to take the edge off. Get some time off work too. (sick, personal, vacation) 

And most of all, get yourselves into counseling, forthwith!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> What is M.D. ?


Go to sickbay and do the pro kit.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

colt, the best way to keep a woman interested in you is to keep her chasing you. If she gets too sure you're in the bag permanently and unconditionally, she loses interest, then she gets contemptuous of you. She needs to feel like other women are interested in you to stay sexually interested in you. If she sees you as weak and needy, she'll chew you up and spit you out. Stop violating The Sixteen Commandments. Have you read Married Man Sex Life Primer? It's about how to keep your wife attracted to you and not somebody else.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

:iagree: for all the times we have disagreed and Ive pointed it out...


16 Commandments... Interesting nuggets of truth in each, IMO.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Get to a medical doctor.
> 
> Ask him to give you something to take the edge off. Get some time off work too. (sick, personal, vacation)
> 
> And most of all, get yourselves into counseling, forthwith!


I called my Primary Care Manager today I got a referral to see a Therapist she specializes in Military relationships, PTSD, and sounds like a professional on the phone. My wife, is willing to go with me she said. This makes me happy. I didn't ask her to I just said I'm getting a referral for us to see this lady. I told her that I think this is what will stop the vicious cycle we have been dealing with and we can learn together about our relationship. She said "Okay."


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> colt, the best way to keep a woman interested in you is to keep her chasing you. If she gets too sure you're in the bag permanently and unconditionally, she loses interest, then she gets contemptuous of you. She needs to feel like other women are interested in you to stay sexually interested in you. If she sees you as weak and needy, she'll chew you up and spit you out. Stop violating The Sixteen Commandments. Have you read Married Man Sex Life Primer? It's about how to keep your wife attracted to you and not somebody else.


Thank you, Ill check it out. I have already started No more mister nice guy book. Thus far I'm 3 chapters in and its not to far in left field. Although not on the money with me. But I am highlighting the parts that I clearly am doing wrong. I had a wonderful father, growing up. Defiantly the "nice guy" he was a fixer for sure. He also had a gift of understanding people. Kinda like a Physiatrist with no degree. My mother was, needy, selfish, yell and screaming and abusive mentally and physically to us kids and my father. After 24 years of torture he left her. I was in the military at the time. 
When I started on the book "No more mister nice guy" I figure this was the issue. My dad taught us to keep peace with mom at all cost. That's some of my problem, I communicate well with my wife, but Im a fixer. Not afraid of conflict, defiantly don't like it. In that book it talks about the internal rage that built for awhile. Yup its there. That book will help me see what I need to change I'm sure But its 50/50 and she has to change too. Does anyone recommend she read that too?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

No, these books are for you. Don't even let her know you're reading these resources. Don't let her know you're on this forum. Women want you to exhibit attractive behaviors without you learning it from a book, just like they want you to be built, yet never go to the gym or check your progress in a mirror. Read on and you will understand.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> No, these books are for you. Don't even let her know you're reading these resources. Don't let her know you're on this forum. Women want you to exhibit attractive behaviors without you learning it from a book, just like they want you to be built, yet never go to the gym or check your progress in a mirror. Read on and you will understand.


Cool,
I can do that.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Colt, 

Mac is right, Dr Glover's and Athol's books are for you. 

Let her read Dr Harley's books. There she can see her part in the failures of the relationship.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

She needs to read His Needs Her Needs. She has to come to an inderstanding that her needs are something she has to (first) identify and (second) communicate to you. She can't possibly expect you to meet her needs unless until she understands what they are AND how to communicate them. Ideally, meeting her emotional needs, building love, strengthening the marriage bond will affair proof your marriage.

On a side note, a marriage counselor cannot fix things, they can help you learn to communicate better. Sometimes the first session gets a little rough, or is totally ineffectual. In order for therapy to produce results, one must first learn how to do therapy. So if either of you begin to think it's not helping, seek another therapist but don't quit.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> She needs to read His Needs Her Needs. She has to come to an inderstanding that her needs are something she has to (first) identify and (second) communicate to you. She can't possibly expect you to meet her needs unless until she understands what they are AND how to communicate them. Ideally, meeting her emotional needs, building love, strengthening the marriage bond will affair proof your marriage.
> 
> On a side note, a marriage counselor cannot fix things, they can help you learn to communicate better. Sometimes the first session gets a little rough, or is totally ineffectual. In order for therapy to produce results, one must first learn how to do therapy. So if either of you begin to think it's not helping, seek another therapist but don't quit.


I bought that book. It should be here tomorrow. While your her can you tell me this? With the exception of the night I confronted her with the cyber affair. I see no remorse. No change in her. Its like nothing happened. Things a got mad demanded she do, ask, whatever, did not happen. I am a mess and she seems to not care, keeps telling me I have over analyzed this whole thing. Just now she went to bed. She tells me she loves me and ask her to kiss her good night, and give her a hug. I did she said "what is wrong with you?" 

I got mad again but I am so numb right now I don't even feel like wasting my time and energy. "I got upset and told her. "Really, I'm rolling conversations you had with a stranger around in my head for days now, I haven't slept. I didn't eat for 48 hours till tonight.'" "I feel like someone's stabbed me in the gut and it will not go away." You make me feel like [email protected] and is see no remorse." "I ask you to help me get over this and it seems you don't care." "WTH? I've never ask for nothing from you, ever!" I left the bedroom. Whatever.................


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

It's almost seems like she sees it as a form of porn to masturbate to. She just got off on some cyber iterative erotica game. No harm , no foul. So Why would you be upset? It's not like she had an affair, right? WRONG!

It was real. There was another man involved. Not some videos or pages in a book. This wasn't 50 shades of whatever. This was pure black and white. There was a man giving her the hots. She was getting sexual fulfillment from someone other than her husband. She is minimizing it so she won't have to face what it did to you. 

The question is why it happened?

She was having a problem with getting it from you, so she went else where.

Or,

She went else where, then you didn't get it.


Did you read the newbie thread in CWI yet. Maybe print her off the part about what the betrayed spouse is going through and how to help them get through it.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> She is minimizing it so she won't have to face what it did to you.
> 
> The question is what happened?
> 
> ...


:iagree:

She is minimizing, plain and simple. Mr. Pink is like that with some problems and it is infuriating! I have to say, also, women *tend* to have a better grasp on the importance of validating the feelings of others so I can see how her attitude is even more hurtful.

She is probably going to require you to come out and tell her that the hurt she has caused isn't going to be swept away and forgotten in a week or two. She needs to understand you aren't going to heal until your feelings of hurt and betrayal have been validated by her. She can hold onto her opinion, if she chooses, but she has to understand your hurt MUST be acknowledged by her before you can begin to sooth it.

On the flip side, not that I think you are guilty of this as far as I can tell from your posts, some people seem to thrive on drama and nurse hurt feelings as a way to manipulate others.

It doesn't sound like your wife is aware of what it is you are going through. You need to tell her what this is doing to you and give her the chance to respond to YOUR truth. Give her the opportunity to know what you feel and understand what she has done. You can't assume she is operating under the same set of facts as you.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> I bought that book. It should be here tomorrow. While your her can you tell me this? With the exception of the night I confronted her with the cyber affair. I see no remorse. No change in her. Its like nothing happened. Things a got mad demanded she do, ask, whatever, did not happen. I am a mess and she seems to not care, keeps telling me I have over analyzed this whole thing. Just now she went to bed. She tells me she loves me and ask her to kiss her good night, and give her a hug. I did she said "what is wrong with you?"
> 
> I got mad again but I am so numb right now I don't even feel like wasting my time and energy. "I got upset and told her. "Really, I'm rolling conversations you had with a stranger around in my head for days now, I haven't slept. I didn't eat for 48 hours till tonight.'" "I feel like someone's stabbed me in the gut and it will not go away." You make me feel like [email protected] and is see no remorse." "I ask you to help me get over this and it seems you don't care." "WTH? I've never ask for nothing from you, ever!" I left the bedroom. Whatever.................


You need to act like you're not that invested. Cool and aloof. Your wife has devalued you as a man. She's not that into you, so she thinks no other woman is. This is solipsism and is a trait of the female sex, generally speaking. Since women are herd animals with regards to attraction to the Alphas and Sigmas of the opposite sex, they tend to take their cues from each other. When other women are looking, your rank goes up, when you look back and they don't look away, your rank goes higher. Suddenly your wife is attracted to you again, only because other women have you on their radar. That's why they go to the can together when out; to reach a consensus on which guys are hot. 

Now, when you act like you're all torn up over your one and only, soulmate, love match, blah blah and you show it by getting uptight; that lowers your rank. She thinks she's got you by the short and curlies because you can't get another woman. She thinks she's in the driver's seat and her contempt for you grows. Her subconscious thinks a real man would keep his cool with her, set down some limits, but be going out at night without explanation, looking good. So do it. You have to act like she can be replaced in 5 minutes with three girls younger and hotter who will tolerate each other in rotation just for the privilege of receiving your essence. Remember, women find sexual attraction through the limbic, as a general rule, and not through the prefrontal cortex. The may find a rich man, or a good man, or a nice provider drone, via reasoning, but we are talking about what stimulates female lubrication, to be crass.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I absolutely HATE HATE HATE admitting the truth of the above, but it is true.

Last night was GNO and my friends met at my house before heading out. They all flirting shamelessly with Mr. Pink, and I have no problem with it. But I noticed while it was happening, watching how much he ate it up, he appeared so damned attractive to me. 

I'm a heading brood mare? Hell no! I am a woman who's sexual response is typical for women. We tend to respond to generalized eroticism, we respond to the feelings we empathize with and that includes seeing two people interact and respond to one another. So when we see our SO interact with and respond with another woman, we "see" the eroticism objectively as opposed to subjectively, within our own context.

Mach... Do you HAVE to anthropomorphize us? I know you are making a point, and the point is valid, but it just seems so.... You know what I mean?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Mach... *Do you HAVE to anthropomorphize us? *I know you are making a point, and the point is valid, but it just seems so.... You know what I mean?


Well, women are human beings so I don't have to anthropomorphize (attributing human characteristics to non-human creatures or objects). I think I know what you mean, though. It really sounds demeaning to say you can push a certain code on a woman's keypad and open the safe and it kind of sounds like I'm saying that, but there are always exceptions ranging from personality differences to just a different mix of hormones and willpower on a different day. It's just the human condition, though and if men can get it through their heads that women do not react to the world as men do, we'd all be a lot happier. This seems to have been understood by one and all in previous centuries. It's a generalization, but much, much more often than not, it's on the money.

On the other hand, it's not like guys aren't just as predictable.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh good, you know what I meant! So what's the word for the opposit? Without using such buzz words as demean, belittle, objectify...

Back to your point to Colt... I don't know if acting as if he doesn't care, or that he's not torn up by what is happening is going to get him to where he wants to be though. Absolutely don't pine or pout, but some well placed, judicious amounts of well contained anger is the manly thing to do. Perfect the stare down, the raised eyebrow, as the fists are clenched. Be honest in what you feel but don't be manipulative. Your not looking for guilt, that's a mothers job. You are looking for her to understand she's crossed the boundaries. You do want her to understand you won't put up with it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Colt, I have just read your story. You are far too dependent on her and she knows that. She doesn't find it attractive. 

You need to tell yourself that no matter what happens you will be fine. And *mean *it.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Oh good, you know what I meant! So what's the word for the opposit? Without using such buzz words as demean, belittle, objectify...
> 
> Back to your point to Colt... I don't know if acting as if he doesn't care, or that he's not torn up by what is happening is going to get him to where he wants to be though. Absolutely don't pine or pout, but some well placed, judicious amounts of well contained anger is the manly thing to do. Perfect the stare down, the raised eyebrow, as the fists are clenched. Be honest in what you feel but don't be manipulative. Your not looking for guilt, that's a mothers job. You are looking for her to understand she's crossed the boundaries. You do want her to understand you won't put up with it.


Sooo...........I don't really feel like going into detail right now cause Im just exhausted with the roller coaster of BS that's happened this week. Ill say this though........No matter what the out come of this situation, I promise you this advice received made me a better man. I'm so detracted right now and it feels empowering. I tried to leave to night and was flat out met with remorse as I was packing my suitcase. That being bitter sweet, my son was crying cause he woke from the fight and was asking me not to leave. I calmed him, told him I will not leave him and retreated to his room for a 3 hour tour of his WII. He's 7 and scared cause mom and dad are fighting for the first time he has witnessed. 

I assured him over and over when we played I wouldn't leave him and this was not his fault. He is asleep and I retreated to the spare bed. I'm done. Im better than this and its just not cool that my wife and I's selfish BS hurt him. 

I read 3/4 of "no more mister nice guy" All I can say is Glover is a Dr. Genius!!! I am highlighting all that is a painting of me as I read, I want to reflect on the highlighted points a few times later. 

She came to me knocked and was crying saying she will do what it takes ect. for Dylan even if she has to fake it. Don't leave. I told my wife in response Fyou for the first time ever, sad is that I felt that too. Told her I don't want sympathy. I told her I'm leaving when my son is okay with it. So for now I sleep in the spare. I feel done with this..................................


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Colt, 

Whatever is to be. 

Don't get yourself under the impression that D will be easier on you than R. 

Divorce doesn't repair a marriage, it only ends one.

DO NOT MAKE ANY LIFE CHANGING DECISIONS FOR YOUR FAMILY *NOW* WHILE YOU ARE AN EMOTIONAL WRECK.

Give yourself sometime and counseling sessions. Set a date, 6, 9, 12 moths or so. Wait till you get off the roller coaster and start thinking clearer. You teach that, don't you? Don't make decisions in anger.

A better marriage can be built. 

Did you get Dr. Harley's books yet? 

Download it today!!!

Surviving an Affair: Willard F. Jr. Harley, Jennifer Harley Chalmers


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Colt, this is actually good news! You have reached a point where the strength of your boundaries over rides the fear of loosing your wife. You have reached a point of "no return."

I think this is, or can be, the empowering transformative stage in any conflict. She took a while to come to terms with you changing what she perceived to be the rules. She is now seeing you mean what you say. Do you really mean that, are you really done? Or are you saying you are done with accepting less than what you want. There is a big difference. If you really are done with this marriage, it doesn't matter what she changes. And if she feels the truth of that, and she's a stubborn person who hates admitting she's wrong, your marriage is definitely over.

But if you are DONE WITH accepting sub par effort, sub par connection, sub par accountability, sub par emotional bond, then you are leaving the door open for improvement. And an open door is easier to walk through than a closed one.

Does she know which version of DONE you meant?

But....I am a little concerned about her wording, "She'll do what it takes for your son, even if she has to fake it..." So many times I wish I could come knock on a members door and wave the thread around and say, lemme "talk" to your spouse for a few minutes! I keep having this urge with your thread! It really sounds like the silly woman is painting herself into a corner and she is going to regret that eventually.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The problem is that none of this is easy: R is hard and D is hard. There's no getting around it. But the worst place of all to be is in limbo. Neither here nor there. That's where you are now.

And your son is going to pick up on the state of the marriage no matter how hard you try to shield him from it. So don't think you can live in limbo for some unknown period to come without his knowledge. Kids know.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Colt, this is actually good news! You have reached a point where the strength of your boundaries over rides the fear of loosing your wife. You have reached a point of "no return."
> 
> I think this is, or can be, the empowering transformative stage in any conflict. She took a while to come to terms with you changing what she perceived to be the rules. She is now seeing you mean what you say. Do you really mean that, are you really done? Or are you saying you are done with accepting less than what you want. There is a big difference. If you really are done with this marriage, it doesn't matter what she changes. And if she feels the truth of that, and she's a stubborn person who hates admitting she's wrong, your marriage is definitely over.
> 
> ...


You know the funny thing is that 2 weeks ago I didn't think I could exist on this planet without her in my life. that was before all this. But now I'm beginning to except that this maybe a option, an it's going to be fine for me. I have seemed to find myself worth in all this an realized. I can have conflict an not feel bad about it. I've been pissed, speaking my mind and making mistakes. Hech I said fu to her last night. (not good conflict)I don't even feel sorry. That's how I feel an should have expressed it long ago. 

To clarify what she said better. She came to the room crying an told me that she will meet my needs. She said in anger, hurt not sure witch. I'll be your slave if I have to. I suck your d-ck, f-ck you give you affection, what ever I have to do for that little boy. Even if I'm not wanting you. ThAts when I said "Fu, I don't need a slave." I told her she appreciates nothing cause she's accustomed to everything she needs is right here and she has it all for the taking for granite. It got ugly a little bit. We calmed down she went to bed. I read awhile an slept In the guest room. Things seem calm todAy. But I feel numb to her an stupiifed at the depth of how little she respects me. I think ill sleep in the other room for a while. I'm tired of this crap. I can't leave for now, I don't want to hurt my son, he was devistated. That being said the only good of that is that I think for the first time I saw real remorse in her. Seems like she saw what she has to loose in her life......this marriage and family........it took my sons reaction for her to realize that?????????? I don't get it???????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

that is the way of things. She didn't really see the hurt she was causing you until she saw how your hurt was affecting your son. While frustrating, try not to focus on that. What matters is that she has come to begin to understand that this is serious and that you mean business. 

I still believe you two are gonna work this out and come through it even stronger!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Oh good, you know what I meant! So what's the word for the opposit? Without using such buzz words as demean, belittle, objectify...


The one usually thrown at me is "misogyny."


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> I assured him over and over when we played I wouldn't leave him and this was not his fault. He is asleep and I retreated to the spare bed. I'm done. Im better than this and its just not cool that my wife and I's selfish BS hurt him.
> 
> I read 3/4 of "no more mister nice guy" All I can say is Glover is a Dr. Genius!!! I am highlighting all that is a painting of me as I read, I want to reflect on the highlighted points a few times later.
> 
> She came to me knocked and was crying saying she will do what it takes ect. for Dylan even if she has to fake it. Don't leave. I told my wife in response Fyou for the first time ever, sad is that I felt that too. Told her I don't want sympathy. I told her I'm leaving when my son is okay with it. So for now I sleep in the spare. I feel done with this..................................



Now don't leave the boy. Give HIM a chance by following Glover and the advice the posters here give you. Please. 

Your own strenght has now showed up to her, and that may save the relation. If you walk away now you will regret it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> The one usually thrown at me is "misogyny."


You?

Never!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

GM Colt, 

Are you in control today?

When will you see the doctor and therapist?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> GM Colt,
> 
> Are you in control today?
> 
> When will you see the doctor and therapist?


Last night I had a healthily conversations with my wife we had the neighbors over, the kids played and we sat outside with the fire and drinks. Really good day for the first time since the night of the cyber affair. I feel ZERO pressure and was able to have a really good time. 

1030ish I went to my room to read, she was doing her homework. I ended up talking to her for about 20min. on the couch . I told her "I wasn't sure what was going to happen between us but I need some time allow. I Feel that I cant leave this home I built and that if I do it will devastate my son." (It was the first time I was really assertive and not really angry) Right or wrong I feel in control of myself and that conversation. I slept in MY room last night lol. "I told her I don't want to be in ours, and make her like she has to pity [email protected]@@ me." I will return to night if it feels right. But not going to talk with her about it.
I have to make a appointment with the counselor today. Ill let you know if it happens today, how it go's. Thank each and all of you for keeping me sane!


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Openminded said:


> Colt, I have just read your story. You are far too dependent on her and she knows that. She doesn't find it attractive.
> 
> You need to tell yourself that no matter what happens you will be fine. And *mean *it.


This was good advice and I did that last night. 
"I told her I'm not sure how we will end up but that I feel okay either way."
The part I don't like is that's the truth. I hope Im not going crazy or pushing her out. I really need to see her pursue me in any fashion for her and I to work out. I cant keep this life I'm living up. I'm not happy and I don't want to hate the person I so love.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I only read your original post. She doesn't love you any more. And she won't again. Sorry. Move on.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> This was good advice and I did that last night.
> "I told her I'm not sure how we will end up but that I feel okay either way."
> The part I don't like is that's the truth. I hope Im not going crazy or pushing her out. I really need to see her pursue me in any fashion for her and I to work out. I cant keep this life I'm living up. I'm not happy and I don't want to hate the person I so love.


Good work on reading NMMNG, but now you need to read MMSLP, before you read anything else. Women's sexual attraction to men is a function of their limbic system. Your wife doesn't know this and she wouldn't understand it probably if you explained it, but at some level she thinks she has to "fake it" with you, because she knows she's not sexually attracted to you. Yes, you can get it back. MMSLP is the Cliff Notes version of how to do that. Did you read The Sixteen Commandments?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

MrK said:


> I only read your original post. She doesn't love you any more. And she won't again. Sorry. Move on.


I used to agree with this approach, but I've personally reignited my wife's sexual interest merely by getting lean and muscular, having other women fawn over me and tell my wife how hot I am, and updating my wardrobe. I've had a couple of clients do the same. Call it 50/50 if a guy is willing to do the work. But you're correct in that if the male thinks it's stupid to go for a sixpack to appeal to his wife's limbic (which is exactly what OM is appealing to) then he's not willing to up his rank and he's toast.

If she's actually fooked an OM, cut 50/50 to 20/80 at max.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Good for taking control of your emontions. That way you can stay in charge of the relationship. It makes you look desirable too.

I agree with Mac. Good work on what you learned from Dr Glover. 

Now it's time to read brother member Athol's book. 
http://marriedmansexlife.com/

You have a lot on your plate, thats the way it is when you have to play catch up. That's why I say not to make any life changing decisions till you understand the reasons for what happened and how to remedy them.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Well I'm sure glad to see a dawning of self respect in the latter part of the thread in contrast to the doormat who appeared earlier.

A woman won't respect you for letting her walk all over you. Regardless of whether the marriage makes it a man can't let a woman run around on him, which she has done far more of than old colt can imagine.

The business of "I don't want to know" still seems in force but there's been plenty of time to clean the computer and phone anyway. The trickle-truth rule applies here for sure. She's done WAY more than just a cyber affair and a picture at a bar. 

I'd be pulling the 180. Look in my signature, colt. By the way you have a thread on what are considered manly things. You can shoot off all the guns you want and it is all nullified by being a doormat to a cheating spouse. Your indifference to her and preparation for leaving will mean more than all the dead enemy soldiers you have killed.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Colt,

I just read your thread in the Ladies section. I'm going to join in with Elegirl, Anon Pink and the others to nag you till you and your wife read His Needs, Her Needs and Suviving an Affair. You've been given the books and links to these resources, for days. The answers are there. Start the reading today!!!


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Colt,
> 
> I just read your thread in the Ladies section. I'm going to join in with Elegirl, Anon Pink and the others to nag you till you and your wife read His Needs, Her Needs and Suviving an Affair. You've been given the books and links to these resources, for days. Start the reading today!!!


I started his needs her needs last night I can stop an order surviving affair if you think I should read it first?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Finish HNHN first, then give it to your wife. Then you start Suviving an Affair.

Are you getting what Elegirl was talking about, from the book?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Finish HNHN first, then give it to your wife. Then you start Suviving an Affair.
> 
> Are you getting what Elegirl was talking about, from the book?


I think I am.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

01coltcolt said:


> I think I am.



I have to say I love that you have two threads going. Maybe I should leave this thread to the men and stick with the ladies. 

Can you visualize all the support you are getting? It's pretty damn cool isn't it?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I have to say I love that you have two threads going. Maybe I should leave this thread to the men and stick with the ladies.
> 
> Can you visualize all the support you are getting? It's pretty damn cool isn't it?


Its very much appreciated.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Finish HNHN first, then give it to your wife. Then you start Suviving an Affair.
> 
> Are you getting what Elegirl was talking about, from the book?


Im around half through HNHN.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

What are your thoughts, so far?


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> What are your thoughts, so far?


Not bad, she really needs to read this one too.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

01coltcolt said:


> Not bad, she really needs to read this one too.


Yes, we all need to read it sooner than later. 

How's the w/e going. Holding your anger in check?


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for giving me the link to the post. I just started reading it, but I feel like we are going through pretty similar problems. Thanks for advice on my thread, you are spot on. I will catch up on the six pages on your thread before I attempt to write something semi-intelligent here.

Cheers.


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Yes, we all need to read it sooner than later.
> 
> How's the w/e going. Holding your anger in check?


I has been a great w/e so far. Im enjoying it.


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