# Is this cheating?



## jjames (Nov 14, 2012)

I have been married for 17 years. I would call them blissfully happy. In the past year my wifes father passed away which was extremely difficult for her. She started drinking quite a bit, and it all came to a head about a month ago. She went out with some friends to a Halloween party and got really drunk. She then started grinding with some men at the party which led to clothed but innapropriate touching. Is this cheating? I feel betrayed, and heartbroken. My wife has apologized but is upset with me that I would even consider leaving her over something she sees as only crossing a line. She occasionally lightly flirts with guys, but has never done anything like this before. We are both in counseling, but I need to know if I am overreacting. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

She gave every guy there the "okay" to come after her wherever they want. Is that okay with you?

You're going to have a difficult time if she doesn't see this a HUGE problem. Step one: booze is gone. G O N E or she will do a slow fade from your blissful marriage.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

It's highly in inappropriate and highly disrespectful.

Not cheating, but definitely NOT okay in any way

I'd be keeping a close eye to make sure there is no cheating. Start searching cell phone, email, chat logs, put a var in car, ect... I would be suspicious with this behavior. Sorry to hear of it.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

^ It is cheating. 

Grinding and flirting with someone like that is a step away from a ONS, especially in that scene. 

Anything that disrespects the spouse like that in relation to another person of the opposite sex is cheating. 

My GF certainly wouldn't pull any punches if I was all up on chick and groping her.


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## jjames (Nov 14, 2012)

Thank you all for your perspectives. Do you think men tend to view this as cheating while women see it as disrespectful?


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

It's not something I would ever do. The only man I flirt with is my husband!

I would never even touch another man on the arm, none the less grinding(disgusting). It's pretty bad.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

jjames said:


> Thank you all for your perspectives. Do you think men tend to view this as cheating while women see it as disrespectful?


Check cell phone records just to be sure. Does she keep her phone by her side and is password protected? Those are red flags.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Agree that it is pretty darn close to "one night stand" territory (a couple more drinks, some time alone, no friends to "watch her back", and you are in the middle of a one night stand), but I don't see it as cheating. Yeah, I'd be pizzed. I'd be upset. I'd tell her no more GNO's or partying without you.

What kind of "inappropriate touching"? Was it as you said, bumping and grinding carried too far (as in they got grabby with each other on the dance floor), or was it sitting on a couch, making out, and all up in each other's business while still clothed?

If it was some drunk dancing that got out of hand, while she may think I'm coming down on her way hard, in my head I would be cutting her some slack vs. the scenario if she was making out and playing the bases through clothes.

By the way, I do think she NEEDS to believe you're considering leaving her over this. For her to think less is not good. You don't want her thinking your boundaries are this loose. Play it calm, but she needs a kick in the azz over this so that next time she's out partying and dancing, and some guy starts grinding on her or getting grabby, the thought in her mind is "my H will leave me over this", and not "heh, last time I did this he was okay with it".


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Well, I'd call it near cheating behavior to be exact about it. That grinding is very sexual in nature with a woman throwing her ass back in a man's lap which can easily be construed as a provocation for sex. 

Its pretty much dry humping, and you need to let her know how serious it is. 

Tell your wife how much would she like for you be hugging another woman around the waist when her butt pressed against you and your arms under her breast.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> She occasionally lightly flirts with guys, but has never done anything like this before.


*As far as you know.*

She might have confessed to this for fear of being outed by someone. 

Has she done anything else in private with another man or men?

Sorry to raise this point but...


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## jjames (Nov 14, 2012)

She has opened up her phone completely and has never hid anything before.


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## jjames (Nov 14, 2012)

The touching was limited to the dance floor, mostly grabbing backsides.


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## A++ (May 21, 2012)

Yes, definitely! its cheating...

Does she do this (inappropriate touching) in front of you??? :scratchhead:


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## jjames (Nov 14, 2012)

This was the only time it's happened and I was not with her.


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## jjames (Nov 14, 2012)

Thanks again everyone for your insight. It feels great just get this out in the open!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Anything that she does or has done exclusively with you, that she is also doing with other men is richly indicative of cheating. Sounds as if she may have already "checked out" of your marriage!


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## Madman1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Its cheating!

Watch for any red flags going forward, she shoud always have open phone and computer,email, fb, accounts. Any change watch out! Also someimes they go off the deep end with a MLC.

If she asks for a boob job, get a lawyer!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

James how did you find out what happened?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> James how did you find out what happened?


Good question.And I agree with madman1 boob job, run, run fast.


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## jjames (Nov 14, 2012)

She told me the next day. At first she didn't tell me everything, but I knew something was wrong and eventually she told me.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Cheating to me= doing something with another person you wouldn't do in front of your partner.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Get more info from a neutral person who was there. If she knows these other guys personally like at work etc. they're gonna start hitting on her subtley or not so subtely. Warn her about that. No 'freindly'chats w them ever again. Not at all.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Simple test, what her reaction be if you did it another woman right in front of your wife?

There is your answer. (Hint it is a betrayal of your trust in her)


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## NewM (Apr 11, 2012)

Id say no more going out for her without you and fixing her alcohol problem.

She also might be sugar coating it,maybe something more,then what she told you,happened.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

NewM said:


> Id say no more going out for her without you and fixing her alcohol problem.
> 
> She also might be sugar coating it,maybe something more,then what she told you,happened.


She might be confessing to what she knew was witnessed by someone who she thought might out her.

What did she do without a witness?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

No more Girls Night Out or attending parties without you. She has shown she can not maintain normal acceptable boundaries when you are not there.

She should stay away from alcohol without you. 

Frankly, this problem popped up early in my marriage and what I mentioned above was the solution. My wife at first said "you don't trust me", "you are trying to control me", you are not my father".

I just told her that when she drank alcohol she has shown me that she can not be trusted. Also I told her "no, I am not trying to control you. You can do whatever you want. But I have told you what I will and will not put up with from my wife. It is your choice now."


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

If she wasn't with you...I doubt it stopped with just some grinding. 

If my wife did this, she'd be out of the house. And served tomorrow. 

You need to talk to her, and let her know, this is where affairs start. Or ONS at least start here. Unless she is already in one. 
Maybe point her to Tear's thread. 

If she doesn't see a problem, ask her if she would be ok with you going to a club and rubbing your crotch up on some random woman's butt. 
If she says no, then you two need to have a VERY SERIOUS conversation about boundaries.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

How did you find out about it? Would she do this if you were there?
If I were you, I'd start looking at everything and I would put a VAR in her car. Easy, cheap and effective. I'd keep it there for a while. You may also want to look at a keylogger for her computer.

Good Luck


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## Justadude (Aug 6, 2012)

Beware....my wife started cheating when her mother went stage 4...I think there is a link between cheating and losing someone close.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

At first, I thought just a line crossing but then, all I have to do is think of the situation in reverse; if I found out my H was dry humping or being grinded on, he'd be out on his fricken ass and the locks changed. He'd have no business out and about behaving like that in the first place, father's death or not...and it's easy to take things further, too, especially if there's too much alcohol involved.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

jjames said:


> She told me the next day. At first she didn't tell me everything, but I knew something was wrong and eventually she told me.


jjames,

How do you know that she told you everything? Wayward spouses rarely reveal the full extent of their waywardness unless forced to. As others have suggested, keep an eye out for any other such behavior.

I wouldn't get caught up in any discussion of whether your W's behavior qualifies as "cheating" or not. She needs to accept that it was highly inappropriate and take steps to ensure that it is not repeated. No more drinking, no partying without you, no dancing or flirting with other men, etc.

You should also wake up to the fact that your W, with whom you have had a "blissful" relationship, is no angel but just a woman with all the desires, flaws and capacity for wrong-doing of any other. Be the husband she needs but insist that she be the wife you want.

Let her know that any more incidents like this and you will walk. Her understanding that will be the best insurance you can get that she won't slip up again.

Good luck.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I always turn the table and consider it from the opposite side - how would she feel if YOU had done this? I doubt she'd consider it to be acceptable in any way. 

This is a concerning issue to see. Full transparency across all items and no more Girls Night Out at this point?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

James

I'm no psychologist but did work in the medical field while in the service. I've noticed some things about some people that experience death of a person close to them. 

The death of a parent, friend, or co-worker causes a focus on mortality and often elicits self-reflection and re-evaluation of hopes and dreams, some realized, some not. The present status is compared to long-ago dreams. If there is disparity between them depression can be a consequence. 

Depression can lead to erratic behavior: alcohol abuse, drugs abuse, affairs, running away, - are all poor choices that can ensue. This unexplained behavior is no one else's fault. Not yours and not your children's. 

How was the relationship between your wife and her father? Any unresolved issues?

Don't discount your wife's inappropriate behavior as 'just something that happened'. Unless it's happened before and you've long suspected your wife of infidelity, you should look at this behavior as a big red flag. It could be the latest manifestation of depression. Have her get a full physical checkup and a referral to a psychologist. Follow that up with individual counseling. 

JMO


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## cali_chick (Oct 18, 2012)

Gosh, really folks, cheating? Telling him to run fast from a 17 year marriage? Time to put a VAR in her car? Good grief. Do you people live in the real world or what? 

Was it highly inappropriate? Yes. Of course it was. Cheating? Hell no. And she admitted it to you, her behavior was off, she'd been drinking, and lost her dad this past year? 

Yeesh. Some of these folks on here. 

No more parties without you. Get her to cut back (a lot) on the drinking. Have her get some counseling. 

I thought you said you were "blissfully happy", why would you need marriage counseling? I have a married friend that got drunk after his dads passing and was so out of it, he let a guy give him a BJ.
The wife divorced him. Now that's cheating.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

cali_chick said:


> Gosh, really folks, cheating? Telling him to run fast from a 17 year marriage? Time to put a VAR in her car? Good grief. Do you people live in the real world or what?


Yes. 
I never expected my wife would've cheated on me. I was completely bliss free for 6 months. Unaware. 
Hit me like a pack of rampaging elephants. 

What reality are you in?


> Was it highly inappropriate? Yes. Of course it was. Cheating? Hell no. And she admitted it to you, her behavior was off, she'd been drinking, and lost her dad this past year?


So your boyfriend/husband could go rub his d!ck up on another woman's butt, and you'd say it was just "Inappropriate?" 
Because I'd be saying a lot more than just inappropriate.

I define cheating as:
If you wouldn't do whatever it is you're doing in front of your spouse, it is cheating. 

And yes, I hold myself and wife to those standards. 

And if he had been there, she wouldn't have done this. Or if she had, then they got MUCH bigger problems that just this. 


> Yeesh. Some of these folks on here.
> 
> No more parties without you. Get her to cut back (a lot) on the drinking. Have her get some counseling.
> 
> ...


Marriage counseling is because his wife is probably trickle truthing him, lied to him, and let another man do things that no wife should let another man do. Her lack of boundaries show a CLEAR ISSUE AND BREACH in their marriage. 
If that was my wife...I imagine I'd probably be in jail...again...


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