# How does "sexualized culture" make you feel?



## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Sex appears to be everywhere. From depictions of it on television and in movies, to articles in magazines and innuendo on radio talk shows, sex appears to be a huge part of our culture. It's common and everyday.

Given the frequent states of sexlessness of my relationship and seeing many others struggling with the same, I often wonder if it's all market hype built on the premise that "sex sells". It's not. 

When in doubt, I go to the numbers, and it's not hard to see that the worldwide demand for lingerie and sex toys amounts to a multi-billion-dollar industry. I infer that people are actually having sex, and lots of it.

Given the situation in my marriage, my response to this sexualized culture is somewhat negative. It makes me feel sad. It makes me feel frustrated. It's like I'm missing out on a party that most of the world is going to. While this may not be a good way of thinking, it's nonetheless how I feel many times.

But enough about me... How does everyone else feel about sexualized culture? Good, bad, or somewhere in between? Why do you feel that way? What helps you manage better, given the pervasiveness of sex in society?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@_anonymous_ When I was trapped in a sexless marriage, I felt much the way that you do. My XH tried to make me feel like a freak for wanting any sex at all, and our sexualized culture made me feel like I was completely normal and that I was missing out on that. As in, I traded my freedom and independence for you, because you made me think that I would be getting all the sex, but you decided to take that away from me. I really felt like I was getting a raw deal.

But on the other hand... if it weren't for the sexualized culture, I might not have realized that the lack of sex in our relationship wasn't healthy. Then I might have stayed in a bad marriage. So there is that.

However, the sexualized culture, with all the tall, leggy, skinny, bronzed blondes certainly makes me feel inadequate and insecure at times. It has for a long time. It's only been in recent years that I've come to accept my body as sexy for the way that it is, even though I'll never be blonde or tall, I will never tan, and unless I get my ass to the gym and make some serious changes, I'll never be skinny. (That's OK. I don't want to be skinny. I have curves, and that's just the way I like it. But I am carrying some extra weight that would be best removed. But I digress). 

Ironically, much of my body-positive acceptance happened concurrently with (and in large part due to) my getting involved with the BDSM/kink community, which is very sexualized, but in a much more positive way than the general culture. It doesn't matter your shape or size, in this community, EVERYONE is sexy. Not everyone will want to get in your pants or be attracted to you. But every body type is appreciated and accepted. Since joining this community, I've stopped paying attention to our sexualized culture... It's like I don't even see it anymore. I don't see a model on a billboard or in a magazine and compare myself to her, because it doesn't matter anymore. Because I've learned that my sexyness and attractiveness isn't related to her at all; I'm not made more or less attractive because of her existence. I just AM.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Sex sells.

There are plenty of studies that show people don't have much sex. And the amount is actually going down.

In sexless Japan, almost half of single young men and women are virgins: survey | The Japan Times

In sexless Japan, almost half of single young men and women are virgins: survey

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802108/

Trends in Premarital Sex in the United States, 1954–2003

And on and on, but people believe what they want to believe.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

WilliamM said:


> Sex sells. There are plenty of studies that show people don't have much sex.


Politely disagree. At one point in my investigation on the level of sexual activity in America's bedrooms (or kitchens, or elsewhere), I did find academic research carried out by PhDs at my wife's Alma Mater. 

I passed on the statistics to my wife, on men and women in our age group having vaginal sex without a rubber, trying non-typical sex positions, and reciprocating oral. From what I remember, it was 70-80% of couples surveyed. Those datapoints made for a good talk, or should I say, argument. She did not respond well.

It was nice at least to finally have some validation... Armed with the facts, I could say "See hun, I'm not so freaky after all!"


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> But on the other hand... if it weren't for the sexualized culture, I might not have realized that the lack of sex in our relationship wasn't healthy. Then I might have stayed in a bad marriage. So there is that.


This is interesting. I can relate to this in the same way. If it wasn't for the depictions of sex everywhere, I might not feel as strongly as I do.

Along the same lines is another force making me frustrated with the abnormal sex life in my marriage. And this force is kind of bizarre... it challenges every ideals I grew up with. 

In a conservative family plugged into an ultra-conservative church, I was taught from a very early age that sex was meant to be enjoyed in marriage, and that sex outside of marriage is morally wrong. Yet, in complete contradiction to these teachings, it was the healthy sex life that I experienced with my girlfriend before marriage that makes me so aware of the problem in my present state. 

Strangely enough, if not for my past relationship, I might be less frustrated than I am now.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> However, the sexualized culture, with all the tall, leggy, skinny, bronzed blondes certainly makes me feel inadequate and insecure at times.


That's interesting, because when I see someone in real life highly sexualized, I think that they are trying too hard; they are desperate for attention.

In fact, in my 20s, my parents accused of dressing too frumpy. Maybe they were thinking that I needed " put out" to find a taker, I don't know.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

_anonymous_ said:


> This is interesting. I can relate to this in the same way. If it wasn't for the depictions of sex everywhere, I might not feel as strongly as I do.
> 
> Along the same lines is another force making me frustrated with the abnormal sex life in my marriage. And this force is kind of bizarre... it challenges every ideals I grew up with.
> 
> ...


I also came from a religious, thought perhaps not as conservative upbringing. My mother was very religious, but she made me promise that I would have sex before marriage. I think she meant in a relationship. I'm not sure. But I still always felt guilty about the pre-marital sex when I had it. But, like you, if I hadn't had the pre-marital sex, then I might not have known... actually, if I didn't have pre-marital sex and was really committed to that idea, I would have married a completely different man, so who knows?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> That's interesting, because when I see someone in real life highly sexualized, I think that they are trying too hard; they are desperate for attention.
> 
> In fact, in my 20s, my parents accused of dressing too frumpy. Maybe they were thinking that I needed " put out" to find a taker, I don't know.


Oh, I feel that way about people in real life. I'm talking more about images in the media.

My mother wanted me dressing frumpy. I'm not sure if that was intentional, or because she knows nothing about clothes. I was horribly frumpy. I was stuck wearing a lot of hand-me-downs, even as a teen, and wore a lot of home-made dresses from my grandmother up until the time I was 16 or so. I spend my teens wearing a lot of flannel and jeans. (Be kind, it was the grunge era).


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Its got totally out of balance now and that's sad. Even though I have a good marriage with regular sex,I still hate this fixation with sex on films and tv, on adverts, the widespread use of porn, the early sexualisation of children, the way some dress, casual sex, skewed sex, its all far from what sex is meant to be all about.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> That's interesting, because when I see someone in real life highly sexualized, I think that they are trying too hard; they are desperate for attention.
> 
> In fact, in my 20s, my parents accused of dressing too frumpy. Maybe they were thinking that I needed " put out" to find a taker, I don't know.


They will also attract the wrong sort of attention.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

_anonymous_ said:


> Sex appears to be everywhere. From depictions of it on television and in movies, to articles in magazines and innuendo on radio talk shows, sex appears to be a huge part of our culture. It's common and everyday.
> 
> Given the frequent states of sexlessness of my relationship and seeing many others struggling with the same, I often wonder if it's all market hype built on the premise that "sex sells". It's not.
> 
> ...


I know you said enough about you but if I may a question. I agree whole heartedly that much sex is taking place in the world by those who prioritize it. I agree you are missing out if you don't have an active sex life unless you don't care about such things. If this is a priority for you why do you stay?


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Wolf1974 said:


> I know you said enough about you but if I may a question. I agree whole heartedly that much sex is taking place in the world by those who prioritize it. I agree you are missing out if you don't have an active sex life unless you don't care about such things. If this is a priority for you why do you stay?


As a young man, it's tempting for me to divorce over lack of sex, but I haven't yet. Through years of fighting, my wife and I have seriously damaged the foundation of trust and openness needed for physical intimacy in our marriage. Therefore, instead of just divorcing over no sex, it seems prudent to insist on marriage counseling. In theory, if we both care enough about the marriage, we'll work to repair its foundation. And hopefully, sex will come naturally.

In all honesty, I don't think that this strategy has a good chance of success. However, if my marriage fails, in hindsight I would at least know that I exhausted many options in order to save it, and made my decision off of a basis involving more than my unmet physical needs. It could help my constructive coping on a long-term horizon, or it could just lead to regret of not having left sooner. Impossible to know how things will go, but I'll bear the risk of the latter.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

_anonymous_ said:


> As a young man, it's tempting for me to divorce over lack of sex, but I haven't yet. Through years of fighting, my wife and I have seriously damaged the foundation of trust and openness needed for physical intimacy in our marriage. Therefore, instead of just divorcing over no sex, it seems prudent to insist on marriage counseling. In theory, if we both care enough about the marriage, we'll work to repair its foundation. And hopefully, sex will come naturally.
> 
> In all honesty, I don't think that this strategy has a good chance of success. However, if my marriage fails, in hindsight I would at least know that I exhausted many options in order to save it, and made my decision off of a basis involving more than my unmet physical needs. It could help my constructive coping on a long-term horizon, or it could just lead to regret of not having left sooner. Impossible to know how things will go, but I'll bear the risk of the latter.


So the real issue is constant fighting which has damaged the trust and openness. Its not surprising then than the sex is rare.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Don't assume people tell the truth in surveys. My lab is living proof that they don't.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

It's all interconnected. Websites from the adult variety to the social networks sexualize the young and the old. The young rapes the old; the old preys on the young. Even food can sometimes be sexualized. People engage in texting, sexting, they swipe left, they swipe right, they chase after that someone(s) who they think can provide them that emotional high, they chase after their feelings and their lust. Hollywood programs them to follow their heart, and to have an affair because life is short and they deserve to be happy, and off to the races they go. Some become pregnant at unexpected times and change the trajectory of their lives forever regardless whether they keep the baby or abort it. Some become the other man, some become the other woman, some knowingly engage in affairs that destroy other people's families, some unknowingly do so. Many are lied to by their affair partners, many lie to themselves and to their partners to justify their affairs. Some receive what amounts to a death sentence in the form of HIV, while others become infertile from chlamydia. Some get the common STD strains, while others get the penicillin-resistant super STDs. Some experience genuine remorse and change; others don't seem to care and move on to infect their next partner. Some become sexually charged and end up adding more children that they can't afford to care for; some give birth and put the babies up for adoption because their partner abandoned them. Some divorce due to affairs and end up hurting the children, who evolve from innocent, carefree toddlers to becoming backpack kids being shuffled from one parent to the other. The kids would then grow up never having known what a loving, respectful marriage looks like, and that in turn influences them to replicate what they witnessed growing up. They have emotional and abandonment issues because one or both parent left them. They seek professional counseling, spending money that they could have used elsewhere, enriching the lives of counselors and therapists, who are sometimes cheaters, themselves, or the victims of cheaters. Atheists, agnostics, religious; they all cheat. Many great and influential people have fallen by the wayside because of affairs. No one is really immune to the pitfalls of sexuality.

Sex is a double-edged sword; it can be wonderful and magical, but it can also destroy lives. It's one massive web of interconnected points.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Whatever you decide to do, do it now. I was in a similar situation as you and waited far too long. I regard a spouse's reluctance to engage in intimacy as two problems: Problem #1: She doesn't find you desirable enough to want sex. Problem #2: she's not even a good enough _friend_ to you to understand and accommodate your needs. Problem #2 is worse. If two people are not friends, they should not be married. 

Ideally, you should ignore what the culture tells you and determine what level of intimacy is suitable for you. I know this is easier said then done. But you are indeed missing out on a party and the problem will only get worse over time. Your level of hurt and resentment will grow. 

Give the marriage counseling a chance, but keep it brief. If you cannot come to a compromise, it's time to move on. Believe me, you don't want to be an angry 50-year-old, wondering why you missed the party that everyone else was invited to.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sex is fun and a culture that accepts sex seems like a good thing to me - in general. For those of use stuck in nearly sexless marriages though, its a constant reminder of the bad situation we are in. 

I see affectionate young couples and I feel happy for them, but also a strong sense of loss.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> skewed sex


What's skewed sex?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

becareful2 said:


> It's all interconnected. Websites from the adult variety to the social networks sexualize the young and the old. The young rapes the old; the old preys on the young. Even food can sometimes be sexualized. People engage in texting, sexting, they swipe left, they swipe right, they chase after that someone(s) who they think can provide them that emotional high, they chase after their feelings and their lust. Hollywood programs them to follow their heart, and to have an affair because life is short and they deserve to be happy, and off to the races they go. Some become pregnant at unexpected times and change the trajectory of their lives forever regardless whether they keep the baby or abort it. Some become the other man, some become the other woman, some knowingly engage in affairs that destroy other people's families, some unknowingly do so. Many are lied to by their affair partners, many lie to themselves and to their partners to justify their affairs. Some receive what amounts to a death sentence in the form of HIV, while others become infertile from chlamydia. Some get the common STD strains, while others get the penicillin-resistant super STDs. Some experience genuine remorse and change; others don't seem to care and move on to infect their next partner. Some become sexually charged and end up adding more children that they can't afford to care for; some give birth and put the babies up for adoption because their partner abandoned them. Some divorce due to affairs and end up hurting the children, who evolve from innocent, carefree toddlers to becoming backpack kids being shuffled from one parent to the other. The kids would then grow up never having known what a loving, respectful marriage looks like, and that in turn influences them to replicate what they witnessed growing up. They have emotional and abandonment issues because one or both parent left them. They seek professional counseling, spending money that they could have used elsewhere, enriching the lives of counselors and therapists, who are sometimes cheaters, themselves, or the victims of cheaters. Atheists, agnostics, religious; they all cheat. Many great and influential people have fallen by the wayside because of affairs. No one is really immune to the pitfalls of sexuality.
> 
> *Sex is a double-edged sword; it can be wonderful and magical, but it can also destroy lives. It's one massive web of interconnected points.*


Good summary of the many pitfalls / consequences to not using sex "ethically" , but yielding to unbridled lust / passions ...(also rejecting our partners) it has the power to detour many many lives, causing a tremendous amount of pain and heartache ... 

I love sex, I love the study of sex... the subject is very deep & vast (no pun intended)... but I can never love everything about sex.. as man (meaning women too) has an uncontrolled hunger that makes it very UGLY at times....Just watch the news... sexual harassment, Teachers sleeping with students, child molesters, Rape.. 

Though on the other hand.. I feel it's the most beautiful , meaningful, fulfilling expressions of intimacy & bonding we have been given ...life's greatest pleasure... 

Truly one of those double edged swords...


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Tatsuhiko said:


> Whatever you decide to do, do it now. I was in a similar situation as you and waited far too long. I regard a spouse's reluctance to engage in intimacy as two problems: Problem #1: She doesn't find you desirable enough to want sex. Problem #2: she's not even a good enough _friend_ to you to understand and accommodate your needs. Problem #2 is worse. If two people are not friends, they should not be married.


I appreciate this perspective. The two problems you've mentioned are absolutely relevant to my situation, and I fear no amount of marriage counseling (or sex therapy, mind you) in the world can even fix these problems!

(On problem 1...)
I wrestle with whether my wife is really attracted to me due to some hurtful things she's said over the years. Even if she walks into the room right now and tells me how attractive I look, I can no longer take that at face value. Maybe 9 years ago, but not now. I'm sure she would say the same. 

We've both said things about each others' appearance over the years; it always happened where she said something very rude and offensive about my body, and then in a very juvenile way, I said something about hers. Two wrongs don't make a right and I did not respond as I should have then, but this is beside the real point: she was first to insult. She was annoyed by how I looked, and unprovoked, decided to say something hurtful. Independent of my follow-on immature reactions, her behavior sources my current doubt in her words. And this was not an isolated instance; there were a handful where she was the instigator.

(On problem 2...)
I do question if my wife gives a damn about what I need, and how the lack of physical intimacy makes me feel. In previous posts of mine, I have acknowledged refusing sex with her, in an effort to refuse sex on unilateral terms. This has led to her feeling rejected, and I often wonder if things like this are creating further dysfunction. Enough confounding factors make it difficult to know with certainty what the real problem is. I still think that at the center of this is a poor match. I would ideally fill up space with sex, that she would (and does) fill up with other activities. 

(On problems 3 and beyond...)
Too far afield from the thread topic. There are additional problems affecting intimacy in my marriage that you haven't mentioned that also can't be cured by counseling. It just raises awareness that while openness and trust are a foundation to intimacy, the foundation's existence doesn't mean there will necessarily be construction. A healthy sex life must be constructed by willing builders upon a solid foundation, and in the end, I'm not so sure my wife is all that willing to build. This is likely her intrinsic state of being, and cannot be changed.



Tatsuhiko said:


> you are indeed missing out on a party and the problem will only get worse over time. Your level of hurt and resentment will grow.


Sexualized culture has led me to some resentment, and I do see this getting worse. The real question I have from a relational standpoint is finding better options for constructive coping in a sexless marriage. To date, the only thing that has helped me in the short-term is getting my mind off of sex, and onto something else (usually hobbies or friends). Problem with this is that it can lead into long-term regret. Others may have better strategies that work in the short-term and long-term...



Tatsuhiko said:


> Give the marriage counseling a chance, but keep it brief. If you cannot come to a compromise, it's time to move on. Believe me, you don't want to be an angry 50-year-old, wondering why you missed the party that everyone else was invited to.


Wise words. Life is too short to stay in an unhappy relationship with false hopes that it'll get better.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> What's skewed sex?


 Affairs, people being attracted to children/old people/animals etc, casual sex with people you know nothing about, rapes, violent sexual contact, multiple partners, people being molested, child abuse, porn, strip clubs, prostitution.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

horny!!!!!!


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Affairs, people being attracted to children/old people/animals etc, casual sex with people you know nothing about, rapes, violent sexual contact, multiple partners, people being molested, child abuse, porn, strip clubs, prostitution.


soooo... sexual degeneracy?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

_anonymous_ said:


> I appreciate this perspective. The two problems you've mentioned are absolutely relevant to my situation, and I fear no amount of marriage counseling (or sex therapy, mind you) in the world can even fix these problems!
> 
> (On problem 1...)
> I wrestle with whether my wife is really attracted to me due to some hurtful things she's said over the years. Even if she walks into the room right now and tells me how attractive I look, I can no longer take that at face value. Maybe 9 years ago, but not now. I'm sure she would say the same.
> ...


I think its sad that the advise is to end the marriage because its not quite as we would like. Where are the promises made? Where is the 'for better or for worse?'. The responsibility as a spouse and parent? 
With effort and persistence most things can be worked out with the right help. For me divorce is only ever for something very serious such as affairs or serious abuse of the spouse or children. 

There is no way that I would end my marriage for such a reason, my husband means far too much to me.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I think its sad that the advise is to end the marriage because its not quite as we would like. Where are the promises made? Where is the 'for better or for worse?'. The responsibility as a spouse and parent?


This is legitimate way of feeling. Marriage is a serious commitment. 

If you follow my advice to people on TAM, you'll see a trend of me recommending marriage counseling and/or sex therapy to people before divorce, especially when there are kids and only when there's no physical or substance abuse. Generally speaking, I believe married partners should make a good faith effort to reconcile seeming irreconcilable differences before splitting.

But what to do when a marriage is no longer an actual marriage? I realize the legal entity exists until a marriage is undone through the courts, but that doesn't mean that there's an actual marriage that exists. If two people are married on paper, but otherwise live like disgruntled roommates, or even people that hate each other, why should marriage vows be honored? For there to be honored vows, there must be a marriage.

My wife is deliberately not acting like a wife toward me. How can I stand by her through this, when she is of sound mind and this is completely of her own doing? That's not love. It's a breach of the marriage contract.

We need professional help to repair our relationship and love each other as we should. But even then, it just might not be enough... Couples can work around differences if they will to do so, but sometimes, they cannot manage to agree to disagree and love each other in spite of differences. That's when they become irreconcilable.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

_anonymous_ said:


> This is legitimate way of feeling. Marriage is a serious commitment.
> 
> If you follow my advice to people on TAM, you'll see a trend of me recommending marriage counseling and/or sex therapy to people before divorce, especially when there are kids and only when there's no physical or substance abuse. Generally speaking, I believe married partners should make a good faith effort to reconcile seeming irreconcilable differences before splitting.
> 
> ...


Does she know that you are considering divorce?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Its got totally out of balance now and that's sad. Even though I have a good marriage with regular sex,I still hate this fixation with sex on films and tv, on adverts, the widespread use of porn, the early sexualisation of children, the way some dress, casual sex, skewed sex, its all far from what sex is meant to be all about.


I agree, it has got out of control. I'm in a horrible marriage but still I don't need sex pasted all over the place to know that. For me when I see a company who try to use sex to sell their products, I deliberately won't buy from them.

It's really too bad how casual and over publicized sex has become, that's not what it was meant for.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I think its sad that the advise is to end the marriage because its not quite as we would like. Where are the promises made? Where is the 'for better or for worse?'. The responsibility as a spouse and parent?
> With effort and persistence most things can be worked out with the right help. For me divorce is only ever for something very serious such as affairs or serious abuse of the spouse or children.
> 
> There is no way that I would end my marriage for such a reason, my husband means far too much to me.


That's what I think to...however my marriage has caused me to have to rethink alot of things, such as when it's ok to divorce. I also thought that divorce is only for serious things like abuse and affairs. Nothing major like that has happened although many may term some of it as verbal abuse of both me and the kids. What do you do in those situations? Buck up and take some more? Throw away more money to marriage counselor. They really don't care, they have no stake in the situation. 

I think about "for better or for worse" everyday. I take it very seriously. I realize I have a responsibility...but it takes two and if the other doesn't feel that way, there's really nothing you can do.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

How does the sexualized culture make me feel?

I feel fine about myself, but disgusted about the hypersexualized, unrealistic culture.

Why do I feel fine about myself? Because sex is great, IMO. Who cares if I don't look like those billboards...I'm 57 years old and have taken good care of myself, having birthed 7 children (4 living.) Although I am smaller (thinner) than most people in my town, my skin is not young, it sags here and there, etc. That's called getting older. I've earned my body, and it looks pretty good!

Why do I feel disgusted by the culture?

So much of people's self esteem seems to be wrapped up in how they look. I think it is better said: "Trying to look like someone else." They are constantly outward focused (looking at people's bodies and faces, not their hearts and needs) and then they are inward focused (looking at their own bodies and faces to make them more acceptable to strangers.) 

I have always told my children body fat is on a continuum. Normal, or healthy is somewhere between the continuum of skinny and obese. Normal is a range, not a single point.

I feel sorry for all those people (mostly women celebreties and people who emulate them) who expose their bodies constantly, and whose entire lives are wrapped up in getting attention for their bodies. For example IMO Kim Kardashian is really someone to be pitied. Her rear end is freakishly huge, yet she uses it to get attention. When she is old, people are going to think she just has a fat a**. Her poor children will have to live in her sl*tty shadow. Other women are trying to emulate her freakish rear and her family's behavior. It is going to go out of fashion, and they will have irreversibly altered their bodies.

I love to see my husband's body, and he mine. But we show them to each other and have no need to get attention from anyone but each other.

When I see young girls (ie high school cheerleaders) dancing sexually in front of a crowd, I pity them for acting like strippers in front of complete strangers. I don't understand why their parents allow and encourage them do that. My daughters are beautiful, and their husbands will enjoy them when they get married, and vise versa. They don't have to cheapen themselves to get attention from strangers. Most people don't have self respect, nor do they save anything secret or private anymore.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Comparison is the root of all dissatisfaction.

Well, may not all, but certainly a lot. And the reality is that odds are, the comparison is misinformed.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In some ways. In others, without some comparison, people may have no way to know that their own situations are not normal. 



wild jade said:


> Comparison is the root of all dissatisfaction.
> 
> Well, may not all, but certainly a lot. And the reality is that odds are, the comparison is misinformed.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

wild jade said:


> Comparison is the root of all dissatisfaction.
> 
> Well, may not all, but certainly a lot. And the reality is that odds are, the comparison is misinformed.


Wise words. Disatisfaction is deadly to a marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

uhtred said:


> In some ways. In others, without some comparison, people may have no way to know that their own situations are not normal.


What is 'normal?'
That marriage we may envy may not be how it looks from the outside. That man or woman we may wish we were married to will have their own faults and weaknesses and failings. That single person who seems to have an exciting life may be lonely and envious of those who are married with lovely children. 
Be thankful for what we DO have and not be looking for what we feel we are lacking.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Sometimes I like it.
Sometimes I feel numb to it.
Sometimes it irritates me.

Being HD with a LD spouse has plenty of frustrations with it. We are still actively working on it, and neither are close to giving up yet, but many days I feel like I will.

I understand your pain OP.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Personal said:
> 
> 
> > What's skewed sex?
> ...


So having had multiple sexual partners you and I both have had skewed sex. :smile2:

Plus being middle aged and not far off from State Pension age and presuming you will remain attracted to your husband, you will become one of those people who are attracted to old people. Which according to your stated view means more skewed sex. :wink2:


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

I like the fact that sex is a pervasive and a largely everyday thing. Which reflects my my own sexual experience as well.

I don't think lots of people having lots of sex is marketing hype, although I can see why some marketers will try to exploit sexual desire in order to try and generate sales. That said I don't think people buying lingerie or sex toys, is always evidence that all people are getting lots of partnered sex either.

I've always thought we're all sexual animals, so the fact that our culture is sexualised is to be expected since it is a significant part of our nature.

I've also read some pre 1940's marital guides for women and I think on the whole, we are far better for having the information that is now available despite some of the trash that is out there.

I don't think there's anything to manage as such, if I weren't getting any sex I'd get it elsewhere with different sexual partners. I just don't see any sense in choosing to maintain a sexless, nominally sexual relationship sans sex.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

uhtred said:


> In some ways. In others, without some comparison, people may have no way to know that their own situations are not normal.


True, but I also agree with Diana7's point that what makes it dangerous to compare is that we only see the outside surface, and what appears shiny and happy on the outside might be anything but on the inside.

Besides, if you're really trying to compare yourself to the sexualized ideal presented by the media ..... well, I'm guessing we'd all come up short. 

Your point is well taken, though. It at least gives you some ammunition should your spouse try to tell you there's something perverted or wrong about lots of sex.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> What is 'normal?'
> That marriage we may envy may not be how it looks from the outside. That man or woman we may wish we were married to will have their own faults and weaknesses and failings. That single person who seems to have an exciting life may be lonely and envious of those who are married with lovely children.
> Be thankful for what we DO have and not be looking for what we feel we are lacking.


Although there is a limit to that too. At some point, the rubber has to hit the road.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Compared to what goes on in my head and in my sex life, our culture does not seem so sexualized.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Does she know that you are considering divorce?


Yes, and that's two-sided. She threatens divorce all of the time. It is unfortunately a common topic of conversation in our house.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> What is 'normal?'
> That marriage we may envy may not be how it looks from the outside. That man or woman we may wish we were married to will have their own faults and weaknesses and failings. That single person who seems to have an exciting life may be lonely and envious of those who are married with lovely children.
> Be thankful for what we DO have and not be looking for what we feel we are lacking.


Nothing is how it looks from the outside. And a relationship that is better in one dimension, might be far worse than present state in another. We just don't know.

Comparisons make it hard to enjoy what one has, especially when those comparisons are against what one once had. 

My experience of a healthy sex life with my ex-girlfriend is a much stronger force of dissatisfaction than any depiction of sex brought on by a sexualized culture.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> That's what I think to...however my marriage has caused me to have to rethink alot of things, such as when it's ok to divorce. I also thought that divorce is only for serious things like abuse and affairs. Nothing major like that has happened although many may term some of it as verbal abuse of both me and the kids. What do you do in those situations? Buck up and take some more? Throw away more money to marriage counselor. They really don't care, they have no stake in the situation.
> 
> I think about "for better or for worse" everyday. I take it very seriously. I realize I have a responsibility...but it takes two and if the other doesn't feel that way, there's really nothing you can do.


I read this post and thought of my former mindset, back before I got married. A long time ago, I thought exactly like this. But the passage of time can change perspectives. 

After paying my dues in a bad marriage over the years, I now think more favorably of divorce if the circumstances are right. In particular, if a couple has no kids, if each partner has financial independence, and if there's time to actually benefit from separating (e.g. couple hasn't spent entire life together), divorce seems more of a practical option when differences are truly irreconcilable. 

I admire your commitment, in spite of your circumstances. I, too, have dealt with verbal abuse in my relationship. What helped improve my contribution to that was independently undergoing therapy. Conflict has definitely reduced after I've sought help, but it still continues and my wife is verbally abusive to me. We're starting marriage counseling this week, so I don't know if it will improve anything. Sounds like you've been down that road, and it was somewhat of a dead end. Hopefully that won't be the case for us...

In any event, thought I'd share what's been marginally helping me in a similar situation. If a partner persists at being verbally abusive, and if you don't see divorcing as an option (especially with kids), an effective response is to set clear boundaries on communication and respect them. Leave the room if you're being yelled at or cussed at; it makes the firm statement that you won't tolerate verbal abuse, and punishes the abuser with isolation. Leaving the house is even better, but might be difficult with kids. Under this action, I've been called a "coward" and some other things that "hit below the belt", but I ignore follow-on insults. It's just more instigation, and if you provide a comeback, the abuser wins. There is strength and self-control in silence. 

However, I should warn you that while this method allows you to cope better with verbal abuse in the short-term, the problem is still very much there. Long-term coping will be a challenge. I, being young and having a chance for better, would personally rather divorce than deal with verbal abuse long-term if my wife would do fine on her own and I had no kids that would suffer. But that's me.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I agree that it goes both ways. It can set up unrealistic expectations. But it can also make people aware of basic things like the idea that women can enjoy sex. 





wild jade said:


> True, but I also agree with Diana7's point that what makes it dangerous to compare is that we only see the outside surface, and what appears shiny and happy on the outside might be anything but on the inside.
> 
> Besides, if you're really trying to compare yourself to the sexualized ideal presented by the media ..... well, I'm guessing we'd all come up short.
> 
> Your point is well taken, though. It at least gives you some ammunition should your spouse try to tell you there's something perverted or wrong about lots of sex.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Everyone is having sex but me? I need a safe place.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Haiku said:


> I need a safe place.


These days, I need a safe place from those who need safe places.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

_anonymous_ said:


> These days, I need a safe place from those who need safe places.


Your words distressed me. I need grief counseling.


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