# How to forgive



## jin (Sep 9, 2014)

I've always heard that is better to forgive and forget than hold on to the anger. I can accept if it helps the forgiver.

But I don't understand how you actually forgive someone. What's involved in forgiveness? You have to tell the person you forgive them? 

I have no relationship with my ex ww and we don't speak unless it's about our son. I like it like this I want as little to do with her as possible. Truth is I'm still angry after more than 5 years although it doesn't consume me. I just want to forget but not forgive.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

jin said:


> I've always heard that is better to forgive and forget than hold on to the anger. I can accept if it helps the forgiver.
> 
> But I don't understand how you actually forgive someone. What's involved in forgiveness? You have to tell the person you forgive them?
> 
> I have no relationship with my ex ww and we don't speak unless it's about our son. I like it like this I want as little to do with her as possible. Truth is I'm still angry after more than 5 years although it doesn't consume me. I just want to forget but not forgive.


Well, forgiveness is mostly a load of crap. And to hell with telling them you forgive them lol

Only aspect of forgiveness you should adopt is to make sure you are void of emotions towards them either than simple disgust.

Leave the trash outside the house where it belongs, doing so doesn't mean you are angry at it. Just not worth being in your life.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

jin said:


> I just want to forget but not forgive.


That is unfortunate, because you cannot forget, you can only forgive. Forgiveness means that you give up your "right" to revenge. That, you have made a decision that you won't dwell on the person's actions which caused you pain. The Lord Jesus Christ said it best, when He was asked the question "...how many times must one forgive his brother....seven?...." ....to which our Lord replied "....of a truth, seventy times seven....". Our Lord knew that the wrongs committed against us would replay in our minds over and over and over again, like a broken record (showing my age  ).... and that many, many times, we would have to decide again and again and again that we would not "repay evil for evil".....

I think you have basically forgiven your ex, it is quite ok to no longer have a relationship with her if you don't want it. Wanting "...as little to do with her as possible...." is not a violation of the forgiveness principle..... and, indeed, can be an essential part of the forgiveness, allowing her no opportunity to screw you again.... people's natures don't change....

If it "doesn't consume you"..... that is a major step toward forgiveness. Let go of the anger. Put it in a helium baloon and let it fly. You will have to do this " seventy times seven...", 

The anger you have decided to keep is like taking poison, and expecting your ex to die.

You can't forget. This is all you can do.



RandomDude said:


> Leave the trash outside the house where it belongs


Exactly. Do yourself a favor.


----------



## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

No you do not have to tell them that you forgive them.

If you have anger, as justified as it is, it is only you that is harmed by that anger unfortunately.

And annoyingly, it does seem that forgiveness is the way to heal fully.

Going off the principle that giving is receiving. Try sitting quietly for a moment and practice forgiveness in other areas first, building up to forgiving your wife.

"To everyone, I offer calmness"
And let that feeling of calm return to you.

"To everyone, I offer peace of mind"
Sit and enjoy a moment of peace.
Etc

"To (name of some annoying colleague) I offer forgiveness"
Keep this up for a few days 

Then try using your wife's name and offering her forgiveness.
See if you start to feel lighter after all these practices.


----------



## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

jin said:


> I have no relationship with my ex ww and we don't speak unless it's about our son. I like it like this I want as little to do with her as possible. Truth is I'm still angry after more than 5 years although it doesn't consume me. I just want to forget but not forgive.


This paragraph is the most telling of your post.
It gives you all the information you need.
You forgive to let the situation go. You do it for *you*, not for her.
Once you let the situation go, you can forget.
This is your ex we are talking about. By labeling her as a "ww", I assume she cheated on you.
Why are you allowing her real estate in your head?
Your only focus should be on your child. He/she deserves that.
Your only contact with her should be in regards to your child. It should be brief, focused, and documented.
The best thing you can do for yourself, and the best revenge, is for you to go out and live your best life without her.
Be the person she always wanted you to be, without her.
Create the distance, look at her in the rear view mirror, and deal with her as a necessary, unpleasant task, such as cleaning the toilet.
Go live your best life. At that point, you won't give a damn anymore.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I have forgiven my emotionally and verbally abusive, serial cheating, ex-husband. I can't forget him, and we share a son so I can't entirely avoid him, either. But, I don't think of him much. When I do, I don't hate him and I'm no longer angry with him. I don't wish him ill. He was a terrible husband and a not-great father, but he's just really not worth the emotional energy it would take to still be angry with him. He's just someone I don't like much that I have to deal with. I no longer give him the power to make me feel humiliated, worthless, less-than, angry, resentful, sad, or even hurt. 

Most importantly, though, I've also forgiven myself for allowing things, tolerating things, that I should not have. I've forgiven myself for mistakes, for a shocking lack of self-worth, for not knowing better, for not being someone who would have left him years before I did. There is power in forgiving yourself. 

OP, absent some form of head trauma, you're very unlikely to ever forget. So, the next best thing, IMO, is to forgive. 

Forgiveness does not mean you don't ever think about what happened. It doesn't mean you just go back to having a great, warm, close relationship with someone who hurt you. It does mean that you no longer dwell on them, their actions, or the hurt. It does mean that they no longer have the power to make you feel strongly about them in any way. 

So, for you it will mean letting go of your anger. You don't need to cultivate a closer relationship with your ex-wife. You don't need to go out of your way to contact her at all. And you don't have to tell her you forgive her, because forgiveness if for _you_, not her. Forgiveness will mean that on the odd occasion that you think of her at all, it's not with anger, hate or resentment. You stop giving her the power to make you angry, the power to make you feel much at all. She doesn't get that kind of space in your brain or your emotions anymore. That's forgiveness.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You never forget, and you shouldn’t, but if you don’t like the idea of forgiveness then focus on indifference. That helped me move on.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Some people can "get on with their lives" without having to forgive. Since people who promote forgiving claim that the other person does not have to know; you don't have to continue with that person if you don't want to and so on, it sounds to me that "forgiving" is an empty exercise.

Perhaps those who are pro forgiving might explain
1. What if after forgiving, you're hassled to treat that person as if nothing ever happened. This would happen if the forgiven person is part of the family or a social circle with the forgiver. To those who do don't know much about the incident, they may believe that it must not have been so bad and so on.

2. What if, after forgiving, the forgiven person does not care; won't shake your hand or even say hi to you; or worse, is still spreading negative rumors about you?

3. Whenever I am asked why don't you forgive, I ask has this person forgiven me? I get a crazy eyed look and then asked "Forgive you for what?" I'll say, for whatever I did to her that made her do THAT to me. Instead of having an answer, they'll change the subject or leave. Why is that?

I feel that people push forgiving because they get something from it. Perhaps, the feel of power to bully someone. More concrete, the ability to continue fraternizing with the other person, perhaps an AP.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Openminded said:


> You never forget, and you shouldn’t, but if you don’t like the idea of forgiveness then focus on indifference. That helped me move on.


But you can still get on with your life without forgiving. And forgiving doesn't help you to forget. In fact, I think it's better to remember. The reason my husband and I fell part was because he was dismissive with me ir regards, to other women in his social circles. (I moved to his country.) Since opposite sex friends is a common problem, it was good that I was on alert from the moment that my current husband started mentioning "his friend."

I don't forgive my ex husband. I am comforted by the fact that I cut ties with everyone who continued a relationship with him. Imagine hearing about parties and other social activities that you're not invited to because he has the "right of first refusal." What are you going to say to those friends "But I have forgiven him." I don't think that would change a thing.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Forgiving is easy, if you step out of yourself.

As humans, we are variably selfish, and we are variably prone to hurting others.

None of us created ourselves, or our early life-forming environment; with us having sufficient intellectual abilities, or not.

Some are born, kind, some unkind, some easily frazzled, flipping one way, then the other.

Intellectually, we can excuse anything, emotionally, very little.

The coolest among us are the most forgiving.
They make the best of enemies, the worst of friends or lovers.

It is said that indifference erases anger and spite.
It also holds no love and compassion.

A woman or a man who equally loves and hates, makes the worst of life partners, yet the best of lovers.
The difference between love and hate (for them) is in its passionate aim.


_King Brian-_


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Forgiving is noble, forgetting is foolish, sometimes dangerous.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

NextTimeAround said:


> Some people can "get on with their lives" without having to forgive. Since people who promote forgiving claim that the other person does not have to know; you don't have to continue with that person if you don't want to and so on, it sounds to me that "forgiving" is an empty exercise.
> 
> Perhaps those who are pro forgiving might explain
> 1. What if after forgiving, you're hassled to treat that person as if nothing ever happened. This would happen if the forgiven person is part of the family or a social circle with the forgiver. To those who do don't know much about the incident, they may believe that it must not have been so bad and so on.
> ...


#1. They dont know then tell them about it.

#2. Then that is on them and correct the rumors.

#3. They may not know what she had done. I would say I have, i just choose not to associat with someone who would do xxxxx.

Nothing wrong with cutting someone out of your life that is not remorsefull or even if they are. We are just called on to forgive.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> #2. Then that is on them and correct the rumors.


If you want something, sometimes you have to do it yourself. Surely, you are not assuming that people will always do the right thing.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I know there's a lot of flowery stuff written about forgiveness, and at least one of those old saws is true which is that carrying hatred and resentment hurts you much more than it hurts the other person. 

I honestly just think you forgive when you get tired of making yourself miserable. Sometimes understanding the other person and their background can make you see how they got to that point, but I've never really considered that an excuse or I'd be all for letting criminals out of prison.


----------



## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Forgiveness isn’t making what they did ok. It’s about coming to a point where you just let it go and find peace within yourself. Then they can’t hurt you anymore because you become indifferent. The anger slowly slides out of your life. It can take a while. Holding onto the bitterness can take you so far with healing and making yourself strong. But the day will come that you just ... let it go. (Forgive)


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jin said:


> I've always heard that is better to forgive and forget than hold on to the anger. I can accept if it helps the forgiver.
> 
> But I don't understand how you actually forgive someone. What's involved in forgiveness? You have to tell the person you forgive them?
> 
> I have no relationship with my ex ww and we don't speak unless it's about our son. I like it like this I want as little to do with her as possible. Truth is I'm still angry after more than 5 years although it doesn't consume me. I just want to forget but not forgive.


Forgiveness benefits you greatly. Holding onto anger and bitterness is so damaging for you mentally and physically. Telling the other person isnt necessary, unless one day she asks for forgiveness.
For me it was a gradual process of firstly making that decision to forgive and then living that out. I have had to forgive quite a few people in my life. You wont feel like it, you have to go against your feelings. Not easy I know.
My faith helped because I felt God was with me in it. I would say I forgive so and so, and carry on saying it regulary if the feelings all came back. I would also pray that the person would be blessed, boy that was hard, but its such a very powerful prayer and seems to allow God to work in the situation. 

Remember that its only you who is being hurt by not forgiving, no one else. Its like drinking poison in a way. 

Forgiveness isnt letting them off the hook, its taking them off your hook and putting them onto Gods hook. Its not saying that what they did doesnt matter, but its saying that I am not going to let what happened ruin the rest of my life. I know those who have forgiven awful child abuse for example, it changes lives.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Have you ever forgiven someone whose response suggested the sentiment "I don't ****ing care."


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I think one thing that helps is if you are safe from them. It's hard to forgive someone when it's possible for them to do it again.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> Have you ever forgiven someone whose response suggested the sentiment "I don't ****ing care."


Its not about them and their response, its about what we do and the bad effect it has on us.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Laurentium said:


> I think one thing that helps is if you are safe from them. It's hard to forgive someone when it's possible for them to do it again.


Absolutely, forgiveness doesn't have to mean reconciliation.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And it doesn’t mean you have to tell them. Why would you? I never have. Forgiveness is for you so they aren’t taking up space in your head any longer.


----------



## Max.HeadRoom (Jun 28, 2014)

I can see the benefit of forgiveness to some as it is really about you and not them.
I have let a lot go and working on more but it’s not about forgiving.

I do not see love & hate/anger as being opposites. The opposite of each is indifference, at least for me. & indifference can still be a challenge to achieve.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

NextTimeAround said:


> If you want something, sometimes you have to do it yourself. Surely, you are not assuming that people will always do the right thing.


??????Not following. I basically said if they do not want to be civil, it's their loss, their dead to you. If there are rumors then correct them by telling the true story.


----------



## The IT Guy (Oct 17, 2020)

Personally for me it's one of the most difficult things, but forgiving has more to do with you than it does them. It's just better to let go than hold on. Holding onto anger and bitterness hasn't and will never get you anywhere. But if you don't find a way to let it go, take it from me - it's like a one way ticket to your own personal hell because you can't move on.


----------



## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Random thought...

I’ve noticed a lot that the people that get all up on their self righteous hackles about forgiving someone are sometimes the same ones that forget that their own hands are indeed- unclean. They’ve made mistakes as well. Must feel powerful to hold someone’s forgiveness in your hands. I’ve had one person in my whole life that wouldn’t forgive me for my trespasses, even though I’ve given a thousand heartfelt apologies. Now when that person throws in my face what I’ve done, I give um the finger. Apologies can sometimes have an expiration date.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The way I see it, why should we even give a **** enough about them let alone care enough to forgive 'em? Like hell I just don't get it, cut them out and huh? Who that again? 

Cut out so many in my life I forgot who the fk they were. After you wipe your ass with them just flush them out of your life.


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I have always had the ability to move forward but that doesn't necessarily mean forgiveness. I don't hold on to the anger, but may forever be disgusted by someone.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

In serious instances (betrayal of some sort) I prefer feeling nothing at all toward the person. I may be civil on those occasions I have to interact with them (assuming that I do). It’s possible I may even be a little more than civil (if it’s family related and unavoidable). But they mean nothing and never will again. I don’t bother telling them they’re forgiven, because it doesn’t matter. It’s about me, not them.


----------



## a_beaten_man (Oct 17, 2020)

jin said:


> I've always heard that is better to forgive and forget than hold on to the anger. I can accept if it helps the forgiver.
> 
> But I don't understand how you actually forgive someone. What's involved in forgiveness? You have to tell the person you forgive them?
> 
> I have no relationship with my ex ww and we don't speak unless it's about our son. I like it like this I want as little to do with her as possible. Truth is I'm still angry after more than 5 years although it doesn't consume me. I just want to forget but not forgive.


I don't have an answer. I'm struggling with the same thing as well.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I don't forgive my ex for cheating on me, manipulating me throughout our marriage, being a selfish coward, and never being remorseful. How can you forgive someone who doesn't even recognize that they hurt you?

I forgive myself for not understanding it sooner. I forgive myself for being naïve when we first got together. I forgive myself for offering second and third and hundredth chances to change. I forgive myself for all the poor decisions I made about my life's path because my information was incomplete. I forgive myself for creating children only to have them end up in these circumstances. I forgive myself for giving up so many dreams and making so many sacrifices that weren't reciprocated. I forgive myself for optimistically assuming my partner had the same level of integrity I did.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

@TJW is on to something when he talks about the biblical idea of giving "give up your "right" to revenge". I think people confuse forgiveness for somehow minimizing the terrible things people did to them. I think it's healthier to see it as something that you have moved past and in that biblical sense given up your right to continue to be angry about it. You can certainly say how ****ty it was however.

I think that commandment is there because the desire for revenge, the anger can and has consumed many peoples lives. The command to forgive is to help heal the person who WAS done wrong. Not the person who did the wrong.

I think very often anger and lack of forgiveness is more a defense mechanism for people. They get stuck with their guard up and because they used that feeling to separate and move on, and it's very hard to change. It also keeps them feeling safe. 

Maybe start there think about that. It's been five years, you have moved on, Your wife no longer has any power over you. Not letting it go maintains influence though. 

It could be more like taking a deep breath and just excepting it happened and moving on without allowing your emotions to dwell there. Start to rethink the event as something you overcame, not something that someone did to you. Like it was a victory not an abuse (even if it was one). It will get much easier to let go of the emotions if you do that.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Cooper said:


> I have always had the ability to move forward but that doesn't necessarily mean forgiveness. I don't hold on to the anger, but may forever be disgusted by someone.


If you dont hold on to anger, you have forgiven them. Disgust is because you now know the type of person they are.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Rowan said:


> I have forgiven my emotionally and verbally abusive, serial cheating, ex-husband. I can't forget him, and we share a son so I can't entirely avoid him, either. But, I don't think of him much. When I do, I don't hate him and I'm no longer angry with him. I don't wish him ill. He was a terrible husband and a not-great father, but he's just really not worth the emotional energy it would take to still be angry with him. He's just someone I don't like much that I have to deal with. I no longer give him the power to make me feel humiliated, worthless, less-than, angry, resentful, sad, or even hurt.
> 
> Most importantly, though, I've also forgiven myself for allowing things, tolerating things, that I should not have. I've forgiven myself for mistakes, for a shocking lack of self-worth, for not knowing better, for not being someone who would have left him years before I did. There is power in forgiving yourself.
> 
> ...


Your explanation was beautifully eloquent and mostly voiced my own view on forgiveness, thank you.



NextTimeAround said:


> Have you ever forgiven someone whose response suggested the sentiment "I don't ****ing care."


You set yourself up for that response and come across as superior when you go around telling people you forgive them. People who are wrong & strong don't care about forgiveness, so pointless to bother. Be like Elsa, let it go!



Openminded said:


> And it doesn’t mean you have to tell them. Why would you? I never have. Forgiveness is for you so they aren’t taking up space in your head any longer.


On point!



C.C. says ... said:


> Random thought...
> 
> I’ve noticed a lot that the people that get all up on their self righteous hackles about forgiving someone are sometimes the same ones that forget that their own hands are indeed- unclean. They’ve made mistakes as well. Must feel powerful to hold someone’s forgiveness in your hands. I’ve had one person in my whole life that wouldn’t forgive me for my trespasses, even though I’ve given a thousand heartfelt apologies. Now when that person throws in my face what I’ve done, I give um the finger. Apologies can sometimes have an expiration date.


Sometimes forgiveness is a gift to both parties. If someone is truly penitent and asks for forgiveness, they can learn and grow from their mistakes, I know I have when someone pointed out how I wronged them and forgave me. Of course, it depends on the severity of the "crime", some things are too heinous to be forgivable. 



Openminded said:


> In serious instances (betrayal of some sort) I prefer feeling nothing at all toward the person. I may be civil on those occasions I have to interact with them (assuming that I do). It’s possible I may even be a little more than civil (if it’s family related and unavoidable). But they mean nothing and never will again. I don’t bother telling them they’re forgiven, because it doesn’t matter. It’s about me, not them.


I totally agree. It can also be quite amusing to see people completely puzzled about why you're being sooooo nice to them. 

I have been consumed by anger and self-righteousness before, to the point where it nearly consumed me and I learned at a young age about the necessity for forgiveness. It's not some empty, religious platitude in the Bible or just something people use to feel superior to others. Anger, pain, and hatred truly warp you and make you into the kind of person who would see no harm in hurting others. 

Forgiveness can not only set you free, when you let go of the pain and anger, and do not hate, it can stop a vicious cycle from forming. There's a reason God demands vengeance as his, regardless of your personal spiritual beliefs. How many stories exist of feuds that lasted generations and kept being handed down, and others where people chose to forgive (never forget!) and tried to forge peace? 

No-one says you have to be an idiot and keep that person in your life to stake stabs at you, but it needs to end somewhere or it just continues to grow. I've tried to forgive those who have really hurt me badly and push them completely out of my head, and I am thankful I CAN do so (no children to maintain ties forever). I truly admire those who must interact with their betrayers civilly and still maintain inner peace, I am not that evolved.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@TXTrini 

But justice is simply vengeance with a third party (such as the law) to mediate an outcome acceptable to both parties 

I'm all for letting go of anger/hate/etc because those raw emotions can be detrimental to achieving justice/revenge (they say after all, revenge is best served cold), however making people suffer the consequences of their actions makes for a better world as long as it encourages proper behaviour and discourages behaviour detrimental to society. This is not always the job of the victim however, and could be the third party (law/courts/families/friends/work/finances/etc), but if the victim has the opportunity they should ensure there are consequences (example: cheating = divorce - duh!), take satisfaction from it, then move on.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> @TXTrini
> 
> But justice is simply vengeance with a third party (such as the law) to mediate an outcome acceptable to both parties


According to whose sense of justice? Law and justice are completely different and have absolutely nothing to do with personal ethics and codes of conduct. Some people think they're doing nothing wrong ****ing you and I over if it's not illegal. Someone is always going to feel cheated and end up bitter if "justice" is not served, so that's why arbiters of forgiveness think it is best done for yourself. 



RandomDude said:


> I'm all for letting go of anger/hate/etc because those raw emotions can be detrimental to achieving justice/revenge (they say, after all, revenge is best served cold), however making people suffer the consequences of their actions makes for a better world as long as it encourages proper behavior and discourages behavior detrimental to society. This is not always the job of the victim however and could be the third party (law/courts/families/friends/work/finances/etc), but if the victim has the opportunity they should ensure there are consequences (example: cheating = divorce - duh!), take satisfaction from it, then move on.


I'm all for justice, for exactly what you said - to discourage behavior detrimental to society. Who gets to decide what is justice, what is worth shaming, how far to take it, and what people should/should not do? 

This is where societal norms come into play and good old-fashioned shaming or used to because now society can't shame anyone for anything anymore b/c you might hurt some weenie's feelings or trample on their individuality b/c they had a hard life, and they're oh so special or whatever excuse is made for lack of moral compass. 

The bottom line is, there is no universal standard of morality or justice between disparate groups, which makes forgiveness and letting go that much more important to avoid constant strife.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@TXTrini 

According to the sense of justice established by social norms and the laws established by its society 
My point is that - to me, vengeance is simply the raw desire to ensure consequences for a misdeed, this raw desire is very human, however, can spiral rather out of control and be detrimental to society (and the victim themselves) rather than make the world overall more preferable to live in. As long as the thirst for vengeance (or justice) is handled, without consuming the victim, it is the core drive of justice itself. Or maybe my brain is just warped


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> @TXTrini
> 
> According to the sense of justice established by social norms and the laws established by its society
> My point is that - to me, vengeance is simply the raw desire to ensure consequences for a misdeed, this raw desire is very human, however, can spiral rather out of control and be detrimental to society (and the victim themselves) rather than make the world overall more preferable to live in. As long as the thirst for vengeance (or justice) is handled, without consuming the victim, it is the core drive of justice itself. Or maybe my brain is just warped


That is constantly evolving, so which set of social norms and laws do we stick to? I get what you mean, I truly do, but it is not reality anymore and it's a pipe dream to hope people live according to that standard.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I have read that Marla Maples wants Ivana to forgive her. She's been asking for years. What do you guys think of that situation?


----------



## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

NextTimeAround said:


> I have read that Marla Maples wants Ivana to forgive her. She's been asking for years. What do you guys think of that situation?


I think to deny forgiveness is cruel, bitter, and says a lot more about them than it does the one begging on their knees. I’ve forgiven things that seemed unforgivable at the time. Why? Because I’m not perfect and neither are any other human beings. I think Marla Maples should get up off her knees and tell Ivana to go **** herself. She didn’t owe Ivana anything. She wasn’t the one married to her.


_In this life, when you deny someone an apology, you will remember it at time you beg forgiveness._ 

-Toba Beta


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

yeah, but she did know that Trump was married when they started dating. Don't tar the AP with the same brush as the WS around here.


----------



## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I am one of those that forgiveness is not important to me and really do not feel it affects my life. I do not and will not ever forgive my 2nd Ex for some of the things she did and I have no intention or need to. I rarely think of her and doubt I will ever see or speak to her again. I certainly don't care what happens to her and frankly hope she suffers and her life is awful until she is sent to hell which I have zero doubt she is going. I'm not mad - I just don't care. People ask my all the time and tease me about I always seem happy and have no worries which is pretty true.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I have a historical example of someone who could not forgive.

Th Crown on Netflix shows QE2 incapable of forgiving her uncle, you know, the one who ran off with Mrs. Simpson. The fact that he rejected the throne put him on the **** list in the UK. He was required to leave his wife in France in exchange to visit the UK. Finally, all that opulence and party life bored him enough that he wanted a job in the UK government. QE2 did some research and learned that during WW2, he was making agreements with Hitler to be returned to the UK throne if Hitler should win. He father's personal secretary informed her that plans to invade France were lost and the acquired by the Allied powers, so QE2's uncle informed the Nazis of this in time for them to change their plans and on and on......

QE2 told her uncle she could not forgive and therefore could not take up a job in the UK government or ever be allowed to return to the UK again.

Did she do the right thing?


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

To me, forgiveness is a deep, ongoing process, and we have to be willing to look at ourselves in an almost ruthless way.

You deal with anger. So do I.

It really helped me to be able to see my anger for what it is:


immature
manipulative
arrogant
self-righteous
controlling
fearful
prideful

This isn't my whole list, but perhaps you get the idea. 

Basically, anger keeps us in a position of thinking that we're better than someone else. It's a way to blame and stay stuck as a victim, rather than taking responsibility.

When I see myself as I truly am, it becomes easier to forgive others. Especially knowing that I want to be forgiven for all the ways I'm guilty.

So, forgiveness takes introspection/self-awareness and humility.

In terms of talking to the other person involved, yes, in order for genuine reconciliation and restored intimacy to take place, I think _both people_ have to be in a humble, willing, open state, where they confess their contribution to one another.

And this is one reason I don't believe that true reconciliation happens very often. 

But I understand that mending the relationship isn't something you're after, so I'll stop here. 🙂



jin said:


> What's involved in forgiveness? You have to tell the person you forgive them?
> 
> I have no relationship with my ex ww and we don't speak unless it's about our son. I like it like this I want as little to do with her as possible. Truth is I'm still angry after more than 5 years although it doesn't consume me. I just want to forget but not forgive.


----------

