# I'm FINALLY starting to get it!!!



## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I recently decided to thrust myself back into the world of dating after my divorce and it has been eye-opening to say the least. I met a girl about a month and a half ago and we ended up deciding to be exclusive about a week ago. It didn't last, though. It's a long story, but the gist of it is she wasn't willing to do the things necessary for our relationship to thrive.

But during this time, something just clicked inside and I started thinking about all of the Man Up/No More Mr. Nice Guy info I'd read but hadn't put into practice. So I began to reread the info as well as some other things and I'm starting to "see the light". 

It has only been a short while since my epiphany but I can already since a new self-confidence that wasn't there before. Heck, I'm not sure I've ever really had the type of self-confidence necessary to bring about the life changes that have been long overdue.

I really think I'm starting to get it!!! 

I will tell you all what sparked the change, though. I was talking to my now exgf and her friend a couple of days ago and heard them both refer to me as a "Nice Guy". Ugh!!!

I'm not saying that I'm transforming into an a$$hole but I'm definitely not the same person anymore. Some of you might think that change can't happen that fast, but yes it can and it has and I'm already beginning to feel so different about myself. 

It is AWESOME! The only thing I now ask myself is why did it take so long?


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

marksaysay said:


> The only thing I now ask myself is why did it take so long?


If you learned to drive in a car that only turned left, you would likely become pretty adept at getting around in it. You would avoid situations where a left turn would not get you where you wanted to go, but otherwise around and around you would go.

You just saw a car turn right.

Congratulations!


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

Get a motorcycle. For some reason that turns you into an instant bad-boy in the eyes of the non-motorcycle riding world. Bwhahahaha!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I saw a glimpse of my nice guy issues when I was riding in the car with my buddy who is the definition of confidence. Women find him irresistible because he just walks in a room wearing whatever he feels like, saying whatever he wants, and doing whatever seems interesting.

We were riding in the car with his new girlfriend and she was pissed at him for something. I think she had to do him a really crappy favor the previous night really late at night. He was telling her thanks and trying to smooth things over. In the passenger seat I was thinking "Wow he's going to have to make it up to her for that one."

When we got out and started talking I said, "your girlfriend seems pretty pissed." And his response, which I had not been thinking about in my diluded nice guy brain, was "Whatever, if she can't get over it I'll just dump her tonight."

It was like a 2x4 to my nice guy attitude. Seriously! If I had been him, why would I have been willing to put up with that? Why would I second guess my self-worth by allowing a chick to act like that to me?

Made me realize I have a long way to go on the road to a healthy relationship.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Wait, she had him do a crappy favor for her or she did a crappy favor for im? I'm confused.

There's such a thing as being kind and there's such a thing as being a jerk. No woman wants to be with a jerk. Confidence is one thing. Arrogance, however, is a major turn off.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Wait, she had him do a crappy favor for her or she did a crappy favor for im? I'm confused.
> 
> There's such a thing as being kind and there's such a thing as being a jerk. No woman wants to be with a jerk. Confidence is one thing. Arrogance, however, is a major turn off.


He left his phone in a cab far away at like 4am in the morning, she had to drive and go get it for him cause we were too drunk to drive. She had to be up early the next morning for work.

I don't think either of them was being a jerk, his point was right on after I thought about it. She had the right to be annoyed for that morning. If she couldn't get over it that night or the next day, it warranted a "this isn't going to work" breakup.

I wouldn't have done that though, I would have stuck in there thinking I had to make it up to her, trying to make things right.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

COguy, I totally get where your friend was coming from. He made a mistake and she helped him out given the circumstances. But at some point you have to be able to move on. I don't think he was being an a$$ at all. 

BeachGuy, if I had the funds to do so, a bike wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll just have to stick with my Pontiac for now.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> Get a motorcycle. For some reason that turns you into an instant bad-boy in the eyes of the non-motorcycle riding world. Bwhahahaha!


Just dont get run over by a woman doing makeup or texting while driving.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

its all in your head

referring to yourself as a "nice guy" or believing that being a "nice guy" holds you back with women is not healthy.

You tell yourself this to make yourself feel good. "if i am not a nice guy i will perform better with women"

in reality it has nothing to do with that


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Wow! I'm really starting to like this!

Today, I contacted the girl I was dating about something unrelated to our relationship and I took the time to also let her know that I was dating others so she wouldn't be surprised if she saw me with someone else.

This was her response:

_Please don't be disrespectful to me. I know you have to do you because I am not ready for a relationship (this wasn't what she initially told me) but I am also not ready to see you with another chic. So could you please let me know so I won't be where you're gonna be._

I thought to myself, "Now the truth comes out". I simply told her I had no plans to parade anyone in front of her. I just wanted to let her know that it was a possibility it could happen.

BTW, it wasn't a lie, either. I went out with a girl last night who'd been chasing me for a while and had a good time and we might be doing it again some time soon. It was the truth!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

This is a really nice Turn around MarkSaySay , I really thought you would be waiting for your ex-wife to come back till Kingdom Come, seems you are finally moving on ~ and enjoying it too! :smthumbup:


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Inspiring news  Keep 'em coming!


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I guess I finally realized that I am a good guy who USE TO BE a "nice guy". If my ex-wife doesn't want to be with me...cool. If my now exgf doesn't want to be with me...cool. There are many, many women who would love to be with a guy like me.

I have simply gotten to the point where I should no longer have to settle for anything less that what I am capable of getting...someone who wants to be with me for me and nothing else. 

I, more than likely, will not find that woman right away, but I'm going to have some fun enjoying life and trying to find her. She's out there somewhere....


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

This goes for careers, too. Until you lose the parentheses around why your work shouldn't be priced as much as that of some other guys you know doing similar things (their secret sauce--no secret sauce, just knowing their worth), no one's going to decide you deserve more and bestow more upon you.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> I met a girl about a month and a half ago and we ended up deciding to be exclusive about a week ago. It didn't last, though. It's a long story, but the gist of it is she wasn't willing to do the things necessary for our relationship to thrive.


So, in a week's time after deciding to be exclusive you discovered she wasn't willing to do the things necessary for your relationship to thrive? I just don't get it. Manning up has a bunch to do with being completely ok with being alone and confident in yourself. 

Are you sure you are ready to be in a relationship? Sounds like you are good at or have learned to be good at a already deeply involved relationship, but not very good at the dating that it requires to get there. I may be wrong, though. Just food for thought.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Dedicated2Her said:


> So, in a week's time after deciding to be exclusive you discovered she wasn't willing to do the things necessary for your relationship to thrive? I just don't get it. Manning up has a bunch to do with being completely ok with being alone and confident in yourself.
> 
> Are you sure you are ready to be in a relationship? Sounds like you are good at or have learned to be good at a already deeply involved relationship, but not very good at the dating that it requires to get there. I may be wrong, though. Just food for thought.


What happened was I found out that she was still corresponding with other men whom she had dated since her divorce. She thought it was okay as long as it didn't go any further than that and told me I was being insecure because of what my exwife had done. That was not okay with me.

I discussed with her what I'd learned about relationships and that being in contact with other men while being committed (and I use this word loosely) to me was not good.

I would like to also add that since I spoke to her about me dating others (which took place about 2 hours ago), she has continued to text me and just tried to call me about 5 minutes ago. I didn't respond to the text nor did I answer her call. I'll call her back later.


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## cmartinho (Jul 18, 2012)

It's funny, I got the "Nice guy" or "Good guy" from my wife and her family for the last few years and never really understood what it meant. I guess I still don't really but I'm working on learning.

The eye-opener for me was, while talking to a long-time friend about my current situation she sent me a rather non-nonsense text that said, "When did you get so sappy? What happened to Mr. Cool, Confident, sexy man I used to know who wouldn't ever let a woman make him weak."

I still don't know exactly which direction to go on how I got from where I was to where I am, if its good or bad. But I am thinking that being the "nice guy" hasn't worked out well for me in the end.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> What happened was I found out that she was still corresponding with other men whom she had dated since her divorce. She thought it was okay as long as it didn't go any further than that and told me I was being insecure because of what my exwife had done. That was not okay with me.
> 
> I discussed with her what I'd learned about relationships and that being in contact with other men while being committed (and I use this word loosely) to me was not good.


You will run into this 99 pct of the time in the beginning of a relationship, especially with dating adults. This is what I was saying about being better at a deep committed relationship than dating. It takes time. You are so used to being in a ultimately committed relationship (marriage) that it bleeds into your dating life at the beginning. This is very natural. 

Life is about balance. You have to find that middle place between "nice" and being a ****. That typically comes from your self image and being comfortable with your identity as a man.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

cmartinho said:


> It's funny, I got the "Nice guy" or "Good guy" from my wife and her family for the last few years and never really understood what it meant. I guess I still don't really but I'm working on learning.
> 
> The eye-opener for me was, while talking to a long-time friend about my current situation she sent me a rather non-nonsense text that said, "When did you get so sappy? What happened to Mr. Cool, Confident, sexy man I used to know who wouldn't ever let a woman make him weak."
> 
> I still don't know exactly which direction to go on how I got from where I was to where I am, if its good or bad. But I am thinking that being the "nice guy" hasn't worked out well for me in the end.


I saw your thread in the separation forum.

Here's a link that should be eye-opening for you.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Dedicated2Her said:


> This is what I was saying about being better at a deep committed relationship than dating. It takes time. You are so used to being in a ultimately committed relationship (marriage) that it bleeds into your dating life at the beginning. This is very natural.
> 
> Life is about balance. You have to find that middle place between "nice" and being a ****. That typically comes from your self image and being comfortable with your identity as a man.


So I guess my question is was I asking too much by asking her to not correspond with these other guys? For one, she was the one who initiated the talk about being exclusive. I'm not sure any bf/gf would be okay with that. 

Prior to the exclusive talk, I understood that she did this because so did I. But once the relationship was put into a different status, I would think certain things need to be changed.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> So I guess my question is was I asking too much by asking her to not correspond with these other guys? For one, she was the one who initiated the talk about being exclusive. I'm not sure any bf/gf would be okay with that.
> 
> Prior to the exclusive talk, I understood that she did this because so did I. But once the relationship was put into a different status, I would think certain things need to be changed.


For me, it would depend on the correspondance and they types of relationships she had with these guys. If she was in sexual relationships and deep relationships with them, then yes, you have every right to ask her to stop. If it was just casual dating, I would give it time. Coming out of a marriage, you date around a lot. Some of those people become good friends and not romantic interests. Obviously, you guys were building a stronger emotional connection with each other or she wouldn't have desired to be exclusive. As you progress in your relationship with each other, those correspondances would decrease to eventually nothing. That is the natural progression of things. 

Now, if you guys had been committed to each other for 6 months and were intimate, different story.


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

It is an important balance, and I agree "exclusive" should mean just that. You have every right to be sensitive to these issues.

Same sex friends - party on
Opposite sex friends - may or may not have an issue (who knows where someones true "boundaries" lie when first dating?) 
Ex BFs/ Physical Dates - No way
ExHub - Only if they share a child, even then very business like


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I don't exactly know who all she dated post-divorce, but i do know of atleast one guy with whom she'd gotten physical with (she voluntarily told me) and with whom she still texted, etc. Heck, we even joked about my interrupting one of their nights out (they were out and i happened to show up). 

There could have been others but one was enough for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> So I guess my question is was I asking too much by asking her to not correspond with these other guys? For one, she was the one who initiated the talk about being exclusive. I'm not sure any bf/gf would be okay with that.
> 
> Prior to the exclusive talk, I understood that she did this because so did I. But once the relationship was put into a different status, I would think certain things need to be changed.


Can I suggest that your response to this question might also be a good indicator of your progress in your journey from being a nice guy to the man you seek to become?

Look at the situation in a different light. She asked if the two of you could be exclusive. Then, she continues her friendship with at least one former lover. Sounds like she wants the security of knowing that you are exclusive to her, which makes you wonder about your ultimate compatibility. In the end, you want someone who works just as hard as you do to meet each other's needs. Yes, she may have misunderstood your definition of exclusive, but people who really, really want the kind of relationship she asked for often at least proceed cautiously, considering the relationships that might interfere with the one that they wish to build.

You are dating. Why question yourself beyond an initial self-check? There are plenty of women out there who will naturally aspire to the same degree of work in building a relationship once it becomes exclusive, and plenty of them should see that you have a lot to offer. If the end goal is to be a guy who isn't stuck in the nice guy self-doubting cycle, maybe you can see even this question as a progress marker in your journey.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

So yesterday, the i met up with the new girl to chat and have a drink and guess who shows up? You guessed it, my exgf. She was devastated! She came up to me just to say hi and said she didnt expect to see me with someone else this soon, since i just told her yesterday. I just told her "it is what it is". 

Later she asks if we could talk and she says she finally gets it. She said seeing me with someone else served to open her eyes and that she was now ready to do all i was asking for our relationship. I just told her, I would be willing to give it another shot but there would be no wiggle room. The first lie, the first text to someone else, etc. I was done. She says she is all in now. I guess we'll see....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I'd run, all that happened the first week...


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

COguy said:


> I'd run, all that happened the first week...


I should've listened to this! So here we are a week later and I get this:

I was thinking last night and I realized I'm just not ready to be in a relationship. I love spending time with you. We have a lot of fun but I'm not ready. I hope we can still be friends." 

Translation: I want to be with you, but I want to be with other guys, too.

I aimply told her there will be no turning back from this point. There will be no further contact between us. No texts. No calls. Nothing. And no, I will not be your friend. I told her before that I would be done and that's EXACTLY what I meant. 

The interesting thing, though, is that I pretty much expected it. I also really don't care. She can erase all my contact info because that book has now been closed. Permanently!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> I should've listened to this! So here we are a week later and I get this:
> 
> I was thinking last night and I realized I'm just not ready to be in a relationship. I love spending time with you. We have a lot of fun but I'm not ready. I hope we can still be friends."
> 
> ...


You know you and I have a bit of history. Out of all the people on TAM who I think would benefit from Awareness: Amazon.co.uk: Anthony De Mello: Books, I think you would benefit the most.

I do hope you buy it and read it because I think it will be life changing for you. Not the least because of your religious background.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I will look into it, AFEH. Just know that I'm not heartbroken or anything. Just moving forward. I'm on a wild journey that continues to offer obstacles and challenges. After each one, though, I get more educated and wiser. 

With all that I've gone through, this is absolutely NOTHING!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

So what happened to the most recent little cakeeater there when you told her you didn't want to just be friends? My guess is unbeknownst to you she was still keeping some lines out there. Given how she felt about it to begin with and you guys weren't together that long I suppose she fell back into her old ways pretty quick.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Probably. It doesnt matter. Im not hurt. Im not depressed. Im not bothered. Maybe relieved is a good word. I felt she was still doing it but had no proof. She did me a favor really.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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