# I am a fool.



## FoolishOne

I'm desperate for advice. I've got myself into a very bad situation and everything I could do seems useless.

I'm a mad hatter. I cheated first. It was bad. I did everything wrong. What's worse was after being caught I made matters worse and now everything is crap. I didn't respect my husband, myself, or my children and family. I did some very stupid things and then ran from the consequences.

My oldest hates me. My husband is having an affair.

I need advice. I have pretty much all I think I'm going to get evidence wise, but I have no idea how to confront. I have no leg to stand on. I had an affair. There was no good reason for what I did and then I rugswept and manipulated gaslighted and lied lied lied. The worst was the blame shifting. I said and did some horrible things. He still doesn't know the extent of my affair. How am I supposed to handle his infidelity when my sin looms large? How am I to be anything other than a hypocrite? I feel like such a monster for what I've done to him. Part of me thinks I deserve this.

I've been lurking here and other sites for a while and that was what showed me how badly I had handled everything. I knew I handled it poorly for a while now but always hoped time would heal our wounds without the need for me to come clean. 

That info also helped me come to the conclusion my husband is in an affair and completely detached. As well as the knowledge to find enough evidence (not as much as I would like.) I wish I had acted sooner and now everything is slipping down the drain.

I want to save my marriage. I do. I love my husband. I didn't appreciate him at all. I mistreated him. But I can't live without him. The thought of my family splitting rips me apart and I know its all my fault. 

I'm so scared a confrontation will be the beginning of the end. I'm scared that the mask he is wearing will fall away and he will walk out on me. Walk out of my life and into HERS. 

I think my husband is planning on getting our youngest into college before divorcing me.

Once the youngest is gone in 2 years I think he will leave. I feel like there is a time bomb strapped to my marriage, and it has a hair trigger. I'm so afraid to do ANYTHING right now. 

I'll add a timeline soon.


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## Chaparral

What doesn’t your husband know about your affair? 

Does he try to hide his affair? Who is it with?


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## Lostinthought61

Well first of all thank you for being honest not just with us but with yourself...

honestly that is the most important thing...your want to save your marriage...how far are you willing to go to save it?
have you thought of going away for the weekend with your husband, away from distraction away from the family, just you two and be upfront and honest about your transgression and then ask him to talk about his.....tell him that more than anything you want to save this marriage because you love him and you have not been a good and faithful wife...i would bring books for both of you to read, his needs her needs, the 5 language of love. read them for hand if you can...also affair proof your marriage....you both need to hit rock bottom together before you can rebuild your life together, you both need to come from despair in order to repair. there should be no he said she said, no accusation, no who did this first because that is only going to end thing faster.


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## GusPolinski

Just divorce.

Tell him you know he’s cheating, don’t care about the details, and just want to divorce amicably.

It’s gonna happen anyway — why not get out in front of it?


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## EleGirl

I have some questions....

Do you know who the other woman is? Is she married?

How long ago did your affair end? How long did it go on after your husband found out about it? And how long was your affair?

When did your husband's affair start?


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## MattMatt

I would suggest counselling for everyone, including your children.

And a lie detector for you to present your husband with evidence. 

And be honest with him.


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## Robert22205

Since your husband is running out the clock (waiting for your son to leave), you have time to work up and implement a plan.

Any thoughts on whether you should confess first or confront him first? I think you confess first. Hopefully his response among other things (within a few days or weeks) includes confessing to his affair. Postpone confronting him until you have a clearer picture about whether you can save the marriage (I'll think you'll know when the time is right).

How you segway into the confession is critical.

Here's some points to address:

-Why are you confessing now? (guilt or other reason?)
-Ask for 90 days before he gives you an answer to D or R.
-Why did you cheat? (deep reasons and take full responsibility) 
-Why are you suddenly realizing you love him? (your rediscovered appreciation of him is caused by ...?) (what specific qualities or behavior do you love?)
-Why are you now a safe partner (no more cheating)? (counseling, self help books/reading, new boundaries, who are you now?)
-How will you show remorse for the devastation to your marriage and pain caused your husband?
-Why should he believe you (since you're an admitted liar and cheat)? (transparency, full accountability for your time, post nup...)
-Does he suspect that he's just a safety net or paycheck to you? (if yes, then I don't know how to answer this...)

The above is just a start....offers some of the points you'll need to cover when you confess. 
If it was me, I'd write down some notes and speak from the notes just to make sure I cover everything.


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## Tatsuhiko

FoolishOne said:


> But I can't live without him. The thought of my family splitting rips me apart and I know its all my fault.


But this obviously isn't true or you would have never taken the risk. It sounds like you like the security and familiarity your husband provides, but don't look at him as a man, or see him as attractive enough. If that's the reason for wanting reconciliation, please just let him go. 

You opened up the marriage, so don't be surprised that it's now open.

Get some therapy and find out your real reasons for believing that you love him. Then write him a letter confessing everything and stating your honest position.


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## faithfulman

GusPolinski said:


> Just divorce.
> 
> Tell him you know he’s cheating, don’t care about the details, and just want to divorce amicably.
> 
> It’s gonna happen anyway — why not get out in front of it?


This is the most logical path forward since you have likely destroyed your marriage by your cruel behavior. 

However, if you want to try and save it, you need to start with A FULL CONFESSION.

Leave out nothing. Include all the gory details.

Then let him decide. 

However, I sincerely doubt you will come clean. You appear to be upset and desperate because you have been and are about to receive the consequences that you quite frankly, deserve, not because you are remorseful.


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## Thor

Get the book “After the Affair” by Janice Spring. Read it, and find a good marriage counselor who has a lit of experience working with infidelity. The sex itself is not the big issue, it is the dishonesty, the betrayal. You can’t move forward into a new good marriage together until the infidelity is fully processed. Many therapists gloss over the recovery and go right into healthier relationship habits like communication. That stuff won’t help until the infidelity is dealt with.


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## TAMAT

Foolishone,

You wrote, "He still doesn't know the extent of my affair."

You can't fix a gigantic pile of lies with more lies, perhaps do this, write out a timeline for your affair with all the details and the lies by omission. Then offer to take a polygraph. Eventually you will ask for one for your H, but for now lets deal with the first issue.

I suspect your H knows you are still lying, but just gave up hope and tried to find his happiness in another woman since he can't trust you.

Did you confess to the other mans wife? 

Did you expose the OM?

If a coworker or boss did you go to personnel?

Are you still in contact with the OM or live nearby.

Have you been tested for STDs?

Read "surviving an affair" by Willard Harley

Tamat


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## FoolishOne

Let me start over. I didn't really cover much detail. Im sorry. There is a lot. First let me assure you i DO NOT SEE MY HUSBAND AS LESSER. Not one bit. This is my selfishness. My ap was actually short with a bit of a belly. It was emotional for me. I was all about ME. I wanted to be worshiped. Adored.

I and my husband are both 42. We have been married 16 almost 17 years. Dated for 2. We have two amazing girls. One 16 and the oldest is 18. Our oldest just started college. They were both happy accidents.

Me and my husband dated for two years before we got pregnant. We were not totally sure about us at that point. We kept putting off the wedding plans. When number two popped into the oven we knew we couldn't procrastinate anymore AND more importantly we where in a much better place then. We were financially better off. We were also madly in love. We never left each other's side. Sex was through the roof and we really felt like the worlds greatest team.

Everything was great. We didn't have much money and I have to admit I definitely beat him up about it. I and my husband hadn't gone to college. He didn't earn much, but we were happy. He was always a prince... And a bit of a rouge.

In 2010 my husband decided to quit his job and start a business. He always talked about it. It was his plan. I honestly never thought he would. He did. He ended up being very successful. But we emptied our saving and took a loan to make it work.

Those first few years of his business were the worst. I think that's when we became disconnected. We only saw each other in passing it seemed. I felt alone. Money was tight tight tight. I blamed him. Nothing was considered my fault.

What I know now is I should have spoken up. I should have been more open. I wanted his new business to work. It was always his dream. We both agreed sacrifices would need to be made. I nodded along to it all, but in my head, I knew I wouldn't like this. 

I should have made opportunities. I should have done some initiating. I was expecting him to do everything. Build a future for our family be a great father. Romance me. He just couldn't do it all. Nobody really can. Not to mention I began what I assume my kids and husband probably refer to as the "***** years". 

I picked fights with him. Nothing was ever good enough. Looking back on what I had become. I was an entitled little princess. I treated him very poorly. It wasn't all at once. It was gradual. I still don't know why I made him an enemy of my happiness in my head. I have more digging to do. I resented him. Like a little girl I was throwing a tantrum because I wasn't the absolute center of his world. How could I be? He had a lot to balance. 

I'm ashamed to admit that I have never helped him financially. I was a stay at home mother since the first child. That changed 3 years ago after D day. (More on that later.) I didn't help keep track of money. Pay bills. Anything really. I raised my children ( I AM proud of that) and cooked and cleaned, but past that I shoved all responsibility onto his shoulders.

I created much of my own trouble. And to make it worse I added to my husband's burden at every point. 

It was a downward spiral which I only pushed us further and further into. My husband began distancing himself. Who blames him?

In late-2013 I met a man through my sister. He seemed charming and kind. He began to socialize with our group of friends. This wasn't some love at first sight. It was a matter of inches adding to miles. Looking back the om was seeking out every opportunity to be around me. He wanted to be my "friend".

Little by little, we spent more and more time together. He would sit back and let me whine and ***** about life and my husband and tell him about how awesome I was and how I deserved better.... I didn't, but I thought so. I didn't even know what an EA was at this point.

At one point my husband took notice of this "friend" and told me it made him uncomfortable how close we were. I brushed it off. He let it go. 

In late 2014 things took a turn when my OM kissed me and confessed feeling. I remember being flattered. I turned him down, but really I should have just ended our friendship there. I still wanted to talk his ear off and hear about how great I am.

It was long before he started kissing me often and we moved past kissing. I'm ashamed to say that he may have pushed us into that direction, but I had no problem doing it. I take responsibility for that. I wanted an affair. I gave myself permission. I convinced myself my life was horrible. That I suffered because of my husband and that if he wasn't going to love me then someone else would.

I think SOMEONE is a good word to use. What I know now I believe ANYONE would have been fine. All they had to be was supportive and blow smoke up my ass.

The physical part of the affair lasted about 4 months before d day (and 2 after). When the ea started... I can't really tell. Does first contact count? The line is blurry. But i went full no contact in August of that year.

My d day was on April 3, 2015. My husband saw a few emails I hadn't cleared up. He had noticed signs and snooped.

What he had found showed clear emotional attachment. I love you's. I want to kiss you. Nothing more damning, but even a fool could read between the lines.

I lied. I got angry at him for snooping. I lied. He was furious. Demanded answers. I lied. He Left the house for a week no contact. That scared me. I thought something happened until his parents called to tell me he was fine. 

When he came back he demanded answers. I lied again. Told him he knew everything. Told him it was just a friendship out of control. Minimized. Destroyed evidence. And manipulated him. I hid my oms name from him.

I honestly think I lost my mind at this point. I really didn't want to lose him, but neither did I want to face the consequences. I was sure he would leave if he knew. I swung between trying to love him back and hating him. Whatever could get a reaction out of him and keep him invested in staying. I could go on and on about what I did. Most of the stories here seem to have similar things. I was a walking disaster.

I berated him into accepting what he knew was probably a lie and used coercion and manipulation to get him to shut up about the affair. Eventually, he gave up asking. Eventually i think he stopped caring.

To add insult to injury I didn't stop the affair. We had a physical relationship for 2 months directly after d day. We had sex 3 more times. We met more than that, but i was mostly interested in emotional support. I was scared and i thought of my ap as an insider. It disgusts me that I treated that pos as a safe harbor. I gave myself another excuse. That it was all too hard to deal with my husband's craziness. That I needed this. I never told him we continued.

As I saw my husband's distress anger dejection it DID affect me. I ended the affair myself. I know that isn't something to be proud of but I did. I'll admit it was NOT only empathy that made me end it. My ap was beginning to show his true colors. He was always pressuring me for sex when i was really confused about what i wanted and where i was going with my life. The shine was off the apple. My husband was also completely detached at this point. He demanded I get a job to support my own spending habits or he would divorce. He demanded I do more to help. He stopped doing things for me. Big things and little things. He started worrying about himself more and me less. He was working out and lost the few pounds he had put on. He was dressing up. He was no empathetic to me at all. I could feel the grim reaper coming for my marriage. 

A good friend who I opened up to also helped immensely. She coached me through ending the affair. She helped me start to understand the gravity of what I had done. 

I looked back at what I had done and I was ashamed. So I buried my shame and decided to be a good wife. I would fix our problems without dealing with the infidelity. 

For the last 2 years, I have been buckling down and doing everything in my power to get him to love me again. I read this site and many stories like mine. I have practiced letting go of resentment and working on coping mechanisms.

I've stopped complaining and started carrying my own weight. I have a job and support my own spending. I have made time for dating and romance with my husband. I initiate sex. We have introduced new things in the bedroom. As long as it wasn't about the affair I was attempting to be open and honest about everything.

I thought I was slowly thawing his heart. He seemed to be less and less angry, but at times dejected and defeated. Then extremely cold. he changed slowly. He started smiling more about a year and a half after d day.

He seemed to forgive me. He was smiling more. And wasn't as depressed, though at moments he would get that 100-yard stare. He was working out and taking more time off to be with the kids and me. He was accepting me physically again and initiating. I was ecstatic. This is what I always wanted. Him home loving me and the kids. He set up his manager to take more responsibilities and worked a lot less than the insane hours he worked before.

I thought he had decided to commit to his family. To do his best to be a great dad and husband. I thought he had forgiven and forgotten. For a while, I really thought the affair had made our marriage stronger. I was a fool.

Things have seemingly been going great, until about 6 months ago. I found another phone. He had it stashed in the closet in his hunting boots. I heard it ding for a text notification. I found it and the front screen had a text message "I miss you so bad".

My husband used a smartphone with a fingerprint reader so later after he fell asleep I used his finger to open the phone.

Most of it was deleted. There was about 2 days worth of messages. Some photos of her. And a few videos. One of her giving him a blow job and one of them having anal sex.

The messages consist of what you would expect. The reason I said earlier that I have less evidence than I want is that I want to know how deep their emotions ran. It's eating me alive. What did he tell her? Are there plans for the future? Is this just sex? 

Most of the messages are about sex. Little flirtations and I miss you. I miss your ****y. That hurt. It really did. Watching the videos was the worst. She is young. 29 at best.

I have seen all the posts of men who can't get over the sex. If I didn't SEE my husband with another woman I probably wouldn't understand. I do. How am I to compare? I feel old. Like an old sow. 

I have been trying to dig deeper, but I must have tripped something in the closet to alert him because the phone has been gone since the first time I put it back in place. If I could find it I would load it with spyware. I can't access it's billing that I know of to see how much they talk. I ordered a var and put it in his truck, but I got mostly him singing to the radio. A few times he would call or she would, but it was business like. "Be there in 5. Can't wait to see you." That type of stuff.

Does it matter at this point? I want to know if this is just casual for him or if he has serious plans for being with her. It hurts both ways, but the first option gives me more hope.

Should I continue digging? What other methods are there? Hiring a pi will only tell me what I already know. He is cheating.

How do I even begin to unravel all this with him? There is so god damn much to talk about. I'm scared. He's going to just walk out. 

How am I supposed to balance this? I'm totally lost. I have been locked in indecision for months.


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## faithfulman

I'm sorry you are hurting. Regardless of your inexcusable behavior, your pain is unfortunate.

Having said that, I still see a lot of excuses and not taking responsibility.

As far as I am concerned, until you tell him the truth that your affair went physical, you are still cheating on him.

He probably knows, or suspects enough to know.

So now, you're both cheating! And you don't like it one bit.

While most will say his revenge-cheating is wrong, and it is, I get why he is doing it. He literally cannot trust you. You destroyed that bond and you continue to lie (cheat) to him to this very day.

Take responsibility. For real. Tell him the truth and accept your consequences. The consequences are coming. They are here, now.

You still move blame away from yourself:



> i DO NOT SEE MY HUSBAND AS LESSER. Not one bit


But you did see him as lesser. You convinced yourself you deserved better than what he gave you.



> In late-2013 I met a man through my sister.


What does that even mean? Come on, you sought out, yes sought out another man.

If you see him as an equal then you should provide him with all the truth you would want.



> In late 2014 things took a turn when my *OM kissed me* and confessed feeling. I remember being flattered. I turned him down, but really I should have just ended our friendship there. I still wanted to talk his ear off and hear about how great I am.
> 
> *It was long before he started kissing me* often and


Take responsibility.

Did he just kiss you? You mean he knew you were receptive due to your behavior, no?

He did not just kiss you. You kissed each other.



> Most of the messages are about sex. Little flirtations and I miss you. I miss your ****y. That hurt. It really did. Watching the videos was the worst. She is young. 29 at best.
> 
> I have seen all the posts of men who can't get over the sex. If I didn't SEE my husband with another woman I probably wouldn't understand. I do. *How am I to compare? I feel old. Like an old sow.*


Now that he got his groove back, you're getting just a taste of what he felt. But you don't understand for real. 

He was out supporting and creating a future for your family while you were whining to, sucking and ****ing the OM.

What he is doing is trying to recapture what you took from him and continue to take from him. 

And this hot young girl is blowing him and giving up the backdoor - and letting him video it?

Sorry, but I really don't see how you are going to get him back.

***

All you can do is come clean. Throw yourself on his mercy and ask for forgiveness. 

Dedicating yourself to being the perfect wife while concealing that this dude was ****ing the **** out of you even after you got busted is not being the perfect wife.

That only helps you feel better. As if you can make up for your betrayal that way. The truth is you have done nothing to truly reconcile.

This is harsh, but it is true.

Stop worrying about better ways to spy or how to figure out his innermost thoughts and plans.

Do what you MUST DO: tell him the truth.

I wish you well in your journey to the truth and a resolution.


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## Decorum

What outcome are you looking for?

Do you want him affair free, and devoted to you and your family, having gotten over what he knows about your affair, without having to reveal the full truth to him?

Is that what you want help with?

Or just help busting him in his affair?

I can't imaging you even think an honest and transparent relationship is even possible now.

Btw a quick count tells me you have used "I" or "Me/My" a total of about 48 times in your first post on this thread. 

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Divorce him, and let him have some happiness!


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## Andy1001

Like I told you in your other thread you treated your husband like ****,lied,cheated and gaslight him.Then when you come out of the fog and realize you were just a **** buddy to a player you suddenly rediscovered your love for your husband.
Did you expect him to be grateful?
Just divorce him,you aren’t attracted to him really,you just don’t want anyone else to have him.
And here is a really far out,unbelievable suggestion.Maybe try and be honest with him about your screwing around because I can guarantee he knows everything.
Karma really is a *****.


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## EleGirl

Decorum said:


> What outcome are you looking for?
> 
> Do you want him affair free, and devoted to you and your family, having gotten over what he knows about your affair, without having to reveal the full truth to him?
> 
> Is that what you want help with?
> 
> Or just help busting him in his affair?
> 
> I can't imaging you even think an honest and transparent relationship is even possible now.
> 
> Btw a quick count tells me you have used "I" or "Me/My" a total of about 48 times in your first post on this thread.
> 
> IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
> 
> Divorce him, and let him have some happiness!


I noticed the same think with the use of "I" and "me".

What really stood out were these statements:

Me and my husband dated for two years before we got pregnant.
I and my husband hadn't gone to college
.

It should be:

My husband and I dated for two years before we got pregnant.
My husband and I hadn't gone to college

The rule is that put yourself last when talking about others and yourself.

@FoolishOne, you writing is overly filled with "I" and "me/my". This gives he appearance that you are very self centered. This is interesting because you write about how self absorbed you had been in the past.

You might want to read through what you wrote and think of how you could re-write it without the over use of those words. Why? Because it's an exercise that could help you re-focus your thought process.

Also, there are some books that I think would help you. Read them in this order. (all are written by Dr. Harley)

"Surviving an Affair"
"Love Busters"
"His Needs, Her Needs"

I think that they will help you understand that has gone on in your marriage and how to get your husband to end his affair and then how the two of you can fix your marriage.


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## Jasel

You have multiple problems. Besides your husband cheating, the biggest is you're still lying and being manipulative about your affair. You're still making excuses for doing so. And like others have said your husband probably knows you never stopped lying or at best didn't tell him the full truth. Which is enough to kill your marriage right there.

You say you learned so much from forums like this, your friend, etc yet you're still lying, still trying to hide from the consequences of your actions, and as I said still making excuses. If you've read enough of these threads you know many times it's not just the affair that ends the marriage, it's the lies and how the cheating spouse behaves afterwards. As you said you did pretty much everything you shouldn't do when you were caught. 

Your approach to treating your husband better and being a better spouse would have probably been received more positively if it hadn't come right on the heels of your cheating, gas-lighting, blame shifting, non-stop lying and especially your rug sweeping.

Anything can happen but at this point in time your marriage doesn't look very salvageable but I think you really need to ask if this is a marriage that should continue. It's good you've made some personal improvements but that might not be enough to save your marriage. 

As for your husband, with your history, you should probably just confront. Although I'd be careful in your approach. While what you did doesn't give your husband the green light to cheat, as you said you don't have much of a leg to stand on yourself.


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## colingrant

You did well in expressing the depth of your deceit. However nothing can happen until you express this on paper and in person to him. Everything. I don't think you have much to lose, because you have nothing right now except a fake marriage that will probably end in a couple of years just as you mentioned. The degree of emasculation and humiliation was complete in that if there was a 50 point check list of worst case scenarios, and on what not to do, you went 50 for 50 and then some. 

Coming forth with the truth will reset the marriage communication foundation, but it may be too little too late in not only was he made a fool of from the affair, but you admittedly didn't support him much and kind of worked against him even prior to your affair beginning, so his memories of the marriage will not start with the affair, it was a culmination of things of which was topped off with the affair. Having said that, nothing is impossible. In order to make the impossible, possible, you will have to be someone you may have never been before (at least with him). 

You will have to take the lead by driving the entire process of wanting to reconcile. Before you reach out to communicate EVERYTHING, you must read how to help your husband heal from your affair. Unfortunately, you will have to deal with his pain and suffering before you can get to discussing yours. I would try to regain his trust over a few discussions so that he an see you're totally different. Afterwards,I'd bring up your wish for him to be exclusive with you as you are with him. 

Lastly, everyone has different reactions to infidelity. I never knew how I would react until it happened with two fiance's of mine. Once I discovered, I immediately knew it was over and it was. I didn't know this prior to it happening I don't think, as it was a while ago. I do remember however that it was immediate. Not contemplating, thinking.... nothing. I was gone. Some men (the minority in my opinion from reading here and other sites) there is no coming back. 

Others are reconciling immediately. What you have going against you though is your daughters are almost out of the house. You are right in seeing this as being his exit point. Even though I said it works against you, I also think it benefits you as well, as it gives you a couple of years to work on him and lots can happen during that period. Have to admit though, you have your work cut out for you as the damage caused by your non-supportive, verbally abusive and unfaithful ways, accrued over a period of time and inflicted massive damage to him personally and the marriage.


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## Decorum

EleGirl said:


> I noticed the same think with the use of "I" and "me".
> 
> What really stood out were these statements:
> 
> Me and my husband dated for two years before we got pregnant.
> I and my husband hadn't gone to college
> .
> 
> It should be:
> 
> My husband and I dated for two years before we got pregnant.
> My husband and I hadn't gone to college
> 
> The rule is that put yourself last when talking about others and yourself.
> 
> @FoolishOne, you writing is overly filled with "I" and "me/my". This gives he appearance that you are very self centered. This is interesting because you write about how self absorbed you had been in the past.
> 
> You might want to read through what you wrote and think of how you could re-write it without the over use of those words. Why? Because it's an exercise that could help you re-focus your thought process.
> 
> Also, there are some books that I think would help you. Read them in this order. (all are written by Dr. Harley)
> 
> "Surviving an Affair"
> "Love Busters"
> "His Needs, Her Needs"
> 
> I think that they will help you understand that has gone on in your marriage and how to get your husband to end his affair and then how the two of you can fix your marriage.


EleGirl,
Very thoughtful post. I hope she accepts your help. 

She had both the excitement, and the security, she is losing her security, but I do think she has the beginnings of remorse, but it will be a lot of hard work.


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## FoolishOne

Thank you for your posts. 

I believe the need for honesty dawned on me almost 4 months ago. I realized this is what lying get me... A sham marriage. 

Actually sitting down and speaking about it is hard. I feel like it is lighting a fuse. Beginning of the end, but i should probably look at the beginning of the end as being when I stepped out.

The me and I before husband and him..... Bad grammar? I'm not exactly Shakespeare, but it might be a good idea to change that. I have been very selfish. I know that. Any way to help me see him and us before I should help. I have been extremely selfish basically our entire marriage. It was not so bad early marriage, but it never is, is it? 

My plan is to come clean entirely. I don't plan on confronting at the same time. I would like to give him the opportunity, to tell the truth on his own.

I'm going to give up any more snooping. I got what I need. 

I have to get the youngest out of the house for a few days to make this possible. She already suffered enough after d day because if me. I don't want her to see this.

Next weekend is a good option. I'm going to ask my daughter to stay at friends for the night and lay everything out on the table. 

I don't expect much. I know I don't deserve much. I guess at this point I just want to understand if he still loves me. If there is then there is still hope.


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## Tatsuhiko

FoolishOne said:


> I would like to give him the opportunity, to tell the truth on his own.


You act like he's accountable to you in some way. Like he'd better finally fess up to his wrongdoing. After you've lied to him for years and years. YOU opened the marriage. YOU can come clean first. I think your selfishness and entitlement is so deeply ingrained that it's impossible for you to see past it. I think I agree with others now: Let him go! No mutual confessions necessary!


----------



## FoolishOne

Tatsuhiko said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to give him the opportunity, to tell the truth on his own.
> 
> 
> 
> You act like he's accountable to you in some way. Like he'd better finally fess up to his wrongdoing. After you've lied to him for years and years. YOU opened the marriage. YOU can come clean first. I think your selfishness and entitlement is so deeply ingrained that it's impossible for you to see past it. I think I agree with others now: Let him go! No mutual confessions necessary!
Click to expand...

That is NOT what i meant. At all. Even if he doesn't come clean he has no responsibility to me. I know that. I am not approaching this as my RIGHT to know or making this about him lying. I don't blame him 1 bit.

What i meant was i would lay my sins bare and hopefully he would tell me about his affair. Even if he doesn't i won't be mad. Sad yes. Mad no.

Please stop trying to twist EVERYTHING o say. I know the devil is in the detail, but some of what you guys are coming up with is not picking grammar and miscommunication. 

I am NOT mad at my husband. I don't have that right. I started this. I can't make him a **** sandwich and then turn around and complain what he is serving me tastes an awful lot like ****.

I have a lot of growing and learning to do. I know that. Hopefully i can do all that with my husband beside me.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

I would let him read what you have posted here including the spying on him. Give him time to figure out what outcome he would like. I imagine the young gal is mostly about him feeling desired and rebuilding his self esteem. The optimist in me says that he might want to start over with you after having all the cards on the table and given some time.


----------



## personofinterest

PigglyWiggly said:


> I would let him read what you have posted here including the spying on him. Give him time to figure out what outcome he would like. I imagine the young gal is mostly about him feeling desired and rebuilding his self esteem. The optimist in me says that he might want to start over with you after having all the cards on the table and given some time.


 This is actually not a badd idea. There is just so much going on here, I can see why sitting down and trying to verbalize all of it would be difficult. You have laid every single thing out here, and you have gotten the perspective of several other people. I think letting your husband see all of it would be a good way to give him the entire truth.


----------



## Kamstel

What is your plan?


----------



## Stormguy2018

"My plan is to come clean entirely. I don't plan on confronting at the same time. I would like to give him the opportunity, to tell the truth on his own."

Exactly. Sit down with him and tell him about your affair. From day one, all the gory details, to the end. You seem to be genuinely remorseful. Put it all out there. 

Then find a good marriage counselor. Maybe things will work out. Maybe not. But it has to start with a full confession on your part.


----------



## BigDigg

Many here won't have any sympathy for you OP, but I don't think it's sympathy that you are after. Just a clearing of your conscience. Regardless of the outcome with your husband I think coming clean will free you of some of the guilt and allow you to start working on fixing and forgiving yourself. That really should be your goal at this point. As you've found you can't begin that until you clear through this wreckage. Perhaps individual counseling should be considered too. Seems you have much to work through. 

If I had to project on this - i'd expect your marriage to be over. You should probably prepare for that outcome mentally too. Your husband likely knew in his heart that you weren't honest and a decade plus of a broken sham marriage is probably far too big a mess to overcome, especially now that he has a young thing absolutely fulfilling his fantasies. He has no such baggage there. And he has confidence that there are others out there should that fail too.

Some words of optimism for you - you are still young enough to find happiness once you sort through and forgive yourself. You still have your kids. Focus on fixing and being the best version of yourself and accept that this will take time but you are worth saving.


----------



## personofinterest

Stormguy2018 said:


> *"My plan is to come clean entirely. I don't plan on confronting at the same time. I would like to give him the opportunity, to tell the truth on his own."*
> 
> Exactly. Sit down with him and tell him about your affair. From day one, all the gory details, to the end. You seem to be genuinely remorseful. Put it all out there.
> 
> Then find a good marriage counselor. Maybe things will work out. Maybe not. But it has to start with a full confession on your part.


Thank you for putting this entire quote in context. Seeing ALL of what the OP said makes it clear she was not trying to hold him accountable without holding herself accountable.


----------



## faithfulman

One of the big hurdles here is that your husband may be in a situation that he likely finds to be waaaaay better than being with you.

Unlike you who chucked it all away for a short fat loser who nodded his head when you whined about your life, your husband found himself a young and tight girl who sucks him off and takes it anally for him - and lets him document it on video!

I'll bet she doesn't belittle him either. 

If he wants to even consider staying with you, chances are you're going to have to match and exceed that action.

Can you beat that? Have you tried? What is sex like at the moment? 

Even more challenging, if you do "bring it" sexually, then he is going to run through mind movies of you giving blowjobs and anal (Or whatever it was. He'll figure you were way more into sex with your AP since you shunned and betrayed him for this man and he is probably correct.)

That thought process may cause him to not want to touch you at all.

In fact, he may have left that video evidence for you to enjoy so you can marinate in some of the hurt, disgust, and uncertainty you made him feel before he cuts you loose.

Be prepared that you may have been replaced with an upgrade.


----------



## GusPolinski

Tatsuhiko said:


> *You act like he's accountable to you in some way.* Like he'd better finally fess up to his wrongdoing. After you've lied to him for years and years. YOU opened the marriage. YOU can come clean first. I think your selfishness and entitlement is so deeply ingrained that it's impossible for you to see past it. I think I agree with others now: Let him go! No mutual confessions necessary!


For as long as he chooses to remain in marriage with her, he is.


----------



## personofinterest

faithfulman said:


> One of the big hurdles here is that your husband may be in a situation that he likely finds to be waaaaay better than being with you.
> 
> Unlike you who chucked it all away for a short fat loser who nodded his head when you whined about your life, your husband found himself a young and tight girl who sucks him off and takes it anally for him - and lets him document it on video!
> 
> I'll bet she doesn't belittle him either.
> 
> If he wants to even consider staying with you, chances are you're going to have to match and exceed that action.
> 
> Can you beat that? Have you tried? What is sex like at the moment?
> 
> Even more challenging, if you do "bring it" sexually, then he is going to run through mind movies of you giving blowjobs and anal (Or whatever it was. He'll figure you were way more into sex with your AP since you shunned and betrayed him for this man and he is probably correct.)
> 
> That thought process may cause him to not want to touch you at all.
> 
> In fact, he may have left that video evidence for you to enjoy so you can marinate in some of the hurt, disgust, and uncertainty you made him feel before he cuts you loose.
> 
> Be prepared that you may have been replaced with an upgrade.


This is a disgusting and belittling post. 

OP, don't try to compete sexually with the OW.

This reeks of cruelty, projection, and bitterness.

Take full responsibility for your actions and be completely honest with your husband.

But the above post is just pure disgusting spite. The isn't an incel forum.


----------



## farsidejunky

OP, for clarity, it was not grammar that @EleGirl was pointing out to you, but rather the emphasis on yourself. It was compelling in that it was unintentional, for all the reasons that we're pointed out.

That said, you are going to take some heat on this site. But if you can take that heat, you will find no better advice than the folks who are here. Time for some asbestos panties. 

Okay, as to your situation...

Yes, you need to confess. But...I don't buy the bull**** that you don't have a leg to stand on for holding him accountable. 

Does it make you a hypocrite? Yep. 

Does it look convenient? Yep.

So what. If it is worth fighting for...fight for it. BUT...

You cannot start fighting for anything until you find authenticity. So yes, confess to him. Then, confront him at the same time. Neither of you has ANY moral high ground, so don't let him take it.

"Husband, I have been deceptive about my affair. This is what happened. I will answer any questions you want to know without hesitation and 100% honesty."

Then let him ask if he has any questions. After that:

"I know you are in an affair. I now know what you have felt. That said, I can't continue to share you. You have a choice to either turn away from this affair, and then both of us can focus our energies on improving the marriage, or we can focus on dividing our marriage, assets, and custody."

You really need to focus on killing the affair. Your guilt can be assured later. Find out who the OW is, if she is married or a coworker, etc., and expose it. You may also have to expose to family while at the same time exposing what you yourself have done.

Kill the affair. Then see if there is anything left to salvage. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Taxman

Your plan is good, if somewhat late. You stood a really good chance of reconciling had you come clean at the beginning of your affair. This is what I write about constantly, KARMA. I know a lot of people discount this, but I have seen it way too often. The problem is that his concerns were not addressed in the last four years, and he had evidence that you stepped out, the marriage was and is sinking, and the young lady is a life preserver, whereas, you are an anchor, and have taken him straight to the bottom. 

I have been around matrimonial issues for 40 odd years, and, what is happening to you, happened to me. Thirty years ago, I got the revenge affair, along with an engraved invitation to leave my home. It took us six months for her to even allow me back through the door. Two years before we felt good again. We trashed that part of the marriage. We talk about it, but from the vantage of being way beyond it, but the circumstances which we allowed into our marriage, will never be allowed back again. I can say from my perspective, that I cannot even estimate your chances. I believe that you will probably need a period of separation to purge some of this crap. He resents you and is doing this to hurt the crap out of you. My wife, in MC said at first she had the RA because we were separated at the time, and she went on a date. I called bullshytte to that, and got her to admit that she wanted me to hurt just like I hurt her. She wanted me to feel as emasculated as I robbed her of her femininity. Confront both situations and then assess whether or not this marriage can continue. You will likely both find that your discounting him in your relationship, led to his anger and resentment and need to lash out. Now that he has, he wants to see your hurt.


----------



## farsidejunky

For the record, I would also bet your marriage is over. 

Only you can decide if you want to actually begin fighting for it. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## ButtPunch

farsidejunky said:


> OP, for clarity, it was not grammar that @EleGirl was pointing out to you, but rather the emphasis on yourself. It was compelling in that it was unintentional, for all the reasons that we're pointed out.
> 
> That said, you are going to take some heat on this site. But if you can take that heat, you will find no better advice than the folks who are here. Time for some asbestos panties.
> 
> Okay, as to your situation...
> 
> Yes, you need to confess. But...I don't buy the bull**** that you don't have a leg to stand on for holding him accountable.
> 
> Does it make you a hypocrite? Yep.
> 
> Does it look convenient? Yep.
> 
> So what. If it is worth fighting for...fight for it. BUT...
> 
> You cannot start fighting for anything until you find authenticity. So yes, confess to him. Then, confront him at the same time. Neither of you has ANY moral high ground, so don't let him take it.
> 
> "Husband, I have been deceptive about my affair. This is what happened. I will answer any questions you want to know without hesitation and 100% honesty."
> 
> Then let him ask if he has any questions. After that:
> 
> "I know you are in an affair. I now know what you have felt. That said, I can't continue to share you. You have a choice to either turn away from this affair, and then both of us can focus our energies on improving the marriage, or we can focus on dividing our marriage, assets, and custody."
> 
> You really need to focus on killing the affair. Your guilt can be assured later. Find out who the OW is, if she is married or a coworker, etc., and expose it. You may also have to expose to family while at the same time exposing what you yourself have done.
> 
> Kill the affair. Then see if there is anything left to salvage.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Very good advice here

This is what i would do if I were you.


----------



## aine

Be honest. Lay all your cards on the table regardless of the consequences. Lay your heart bare but before you do, examine yourself first. Ask yourself why you want your husband now, and not before.


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## Openminded

He's likely to think you only want him now because someone else wants him. Be prepared.


----------



## faithfulman

personofinterest said:


> This is a disgusting and belittling post.
> 
> OP, don't try to compete sexually with the OW.
> 
> This reeks of cruelty, projection, and bitterness.
> 
> Take full responsibility for your actions and be completely honest with your husband.
> 
> But the above post is just pure disgusting spite. The isn't an incel forum.


I don't even know what an incel is, and I know my post is a rough statement.

But this is a rough situation. Thinking that solely the truth (which I have encouraged her to come clean.) is going to get him back is naive.

The OP has said she can't compete with the OW. I didn't say it, she said it. 

She implied (not me) that there is a perverse competition here, just as her husband was unknowingly competing with the OM.

Further, I did not advise or tell her to do anything. That is you who is projecting.

What I did tell her is that the sex life he is now enjoying makes it quite difficult for him to return to his wife all things considered, taking into account he is having what appears to be wild sex with a younger woman. And I asked if she has tried to match it. She may have to meet that new standard. He probably won't want to go back. 

But even if she does try to win him back physically (This is called sex-bombing around these parts by the way and is one of the most common strategies of wayward wives keeping their husbands) it still will bring back memories of her ****ing another man. 

Yes, it's harsh. But it is in fact a huge barrier to reconciliation. He has found greener grass that is not laced with betrayal and mind movies he cannot shake. 

That's why my first statement in my first reply was divorce was the most logical end.

Because dudes don't get over their wives ****ing other dudes that often.


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## Lostinthought61

let's be honest guys the affair the husband is having is with a sugar baby...its not going to go anywhere. they are in lust at best not love. i think if they both come clean and open the lines of communication they have a fighting chance if they are both willing to try. from a negotiating perspective this is a level playing field.


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## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> Let me start over. I didn't really cover much detail. Im sorry. There is a lot. First let me assure you i DO NOT SEE MY HUSBAND AS LESSER. Not one bit. This is my selfishness. My ap was actually short with a bit of a belly. It was emotional for me. I was all about ME. I wanted to be worshiped. Adored...


I am not going to give you a hard time for all of the I's in this post as I think it's hard to write your story without a lot of I's. What I have to ask though is are you sure you love your husband? Are you even sure what you even know what love is? I say that because what you are feeling right now, this kind of desperation isn't really love. It's fear of your life changing. What makes that assured that it isn't love is that it's about "YOUR" life changing. Also that kind of new excitement that you felt with your AP was also not love, that was lust. 

Love is not about how do you make ME feel or what does he do for ME. It's about how can I make HIM feel good. How can I help HIM. It's when you meet someone so special to you that you feel the responsibly to be the one who makes their life great. When you meet that person and they feel the same way that is a wonderful thing. 

In his own way I think your husband, like a lot of men was trying to do that with his business. He was providing. Lots of men just don't have the parental training to know that their wives emotional security is a part of their responsibility in this modern world. So they try to provide in what they know how to do, finances. This is also a vital part of the marriage and what has been drummed into our minds our whole life. Other men know about the emotional stuff and use the missing emotional part to get sex, which is what your AP did. Which is what makes men like that creeps. Because it's really just taking advantage, and done all out of selfishness. Sad. However for us men we need respect and loyalty. Lots of us think of our wives like Robin to our Batman. When Robin stabs you in the back it's hard to go back to fighting crime (dealing with all the **** in life) with them. 

I think it's hard to ask for loyalty when you haven't shown any. You really have manipulated him terribly and I think he gave up. You kind of set up new rules in your marriage and he decided to play by them. It's hard to change them back now. That's how it works. 

I think you have two choices. Live by the rules you set, let it go and hope eventually you can win him back. Or you can fall on your sword, admit to everything (I mean everything all the tawdry details. The fact that you didn't get it at all and didn't love him like you want to), admit that you have set up these rules and ruined your relationship and ask for a second chance. Tell him everything, tell him you know and that you understand why he did it but that either you start over or you both move on. He may end it, he may have been waiting for his kids to grow up like you say. Honestly what you did was abusive. Why would he want to live like that? If he still loves you maybe your humility will lower his walls. You will have to let his affair go though, no one is in the right here, but you set up the rules. 

One thing I don't think you can act offended and demand he change his actions. This is the marriage of your making. You took fidelity and loyalty out of the equation.


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## farsidejunky

This is exactly why the affair must be stopped.

The thought of him seeking out the AP needs to be made as unappealing as possible.


Lostinthought61 said:


> let's be honest guys the affair the husband is having is with a sugar baby...its not going to go anywhere. they are in lust at best not love. i think if they both come clean and open the lines of communication they have a fighting chance if they are both willing to try. from a negotiating perspective this is a level playing field.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

Lostinthought61 said:


> let's be honest guys the affair the husband is having is with a sugar baby...its not going to go anywhere. they are in lust at best not love. i think if they both come clean and open the lines of communication they have a fighting chance if they are both willing to try. from a negotiating perspective this is a level playing field.


There is the other possibly that he had given up on marriage and likes having a sugar baby and is just waiting out the clock. Or maybe he wants the stability of the marriage and a sugar baby. So he may not see any future with her but he may also not see a future with his wife. He may see a future with lots of sugar babies. Not saying it's right but I think it is a mistake to assume he is willing to try. This is not uncommon when someone has suffered terrible emotional abuse at the hands of someone they loved.


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## FoolishOne

Sex isn't a problem. That i know of.... Though he may say differently. After the affair i learned to be more aggressive and initiate. I surprise him with morning sex and middle of the night sex. I buy sexy outfits. Role play. We actually have sex almost daily sometimes when the youngest is out we do it all day. Laying around the house naked and what not..

I changed the way i thought about sex. Sex was all about me before. I didn't want to initiate. Didn't want to work at it. I thought it was the man's job to seduce his wife. I thought it was beneath a woman's dignity to ask for sex. I left it all to him. That changed. I love our new sex life. We have tried new things , i have never done with anyone else. Some i love and some he loves. some we love together. I don't want to be tmi about this so i will leave it there. There is absolutely nothing im not willing to try at least once. 

If i had one problem (a small one) it would be that at times he treats me like meat. He gets a cold look and becomes almost robotic and distant after sex. Im sure its mind movies or something like that. Or maybe he just gets disgusted with me from time to time.


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## farsidejunky

He likely treats you that way due to resentment.

He likely resents you because of your manipulation, gaslighting, and lying.

You need to know what you are up against.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61

FoolishOne said:


> Sex isn't a problem. That i know of.... Though he may say differently. After the affair i learned to be more aggressive and initiate. I surprise him with morning sex and middle of the night sex. I buy sexy outfits. Role play. We actually have sex almost daily sometimes when the youngest is out we do it all day. Laying around the house naked and what not..
> 
> I changed the way i thought about sex. Sex was all about me before. I didn't want to initiate. Didn't want to work at it. I thought it was the man's job to seduce his wife. I thought it was beneath a woman's dignity to ask for sex. I left it all to him. That changed. I love our new sex life. We have tried new things , i have never done with anyone else. Some i love and some he loves. some we love together. I don't want to be tmi about this so i will leave it there. There is absolutely nothing im not willing to try at least once.
> 
> If i had one problem (a small one) it would be that at times he treats me like meat. He gets a cold look and becomes almost robotic and distant after sex. Im sure its mind movies or something like that. Or maybe he just gets disgusted with me from time to time.


This is why you need a meeting of the minds if you ever want to get your marriage back on track....its been on life support, sure the sex may be great what man wouldn't love sex with his wife if she is wanting it...but what about trust....do you trust each other....no clearly.....both have to to come to the table and be honest with each other otherwise there will be no marriage some day.....think about this...this might be his exit affair...do you want that? no you don't so since he is not stepping up to the plate you need too, there is no guarantee but at this point this may be your last ditch effort. Don't start lying now.


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## Graywolf2

There is something you can do right now that's a no brainer. Tell him what you wrote below. You can just tell him or write him a letter. That he was working his ass off for that future of your family and you treated him like a dog. Basically set the record straight. Give him credit for all he did and that you love him more than ever and are trying to make it up to him.



FoolishOne said:


> Let me start over. I didn't really cover much detail. Im sorry. There is a lot. First let me assure you i DO NOT SEE MY HUSBAND AS LESSER. Not one bit. This is my selfishness. My ap was actually short with a bit of a belly. It was emotional for me. I was all about ME. I wanted to be worshiped. Adored.
> 
> I and my husband are both 42. We have been married 16 almost 17 years. Dated for 2. We have two amazing girls. One 16 and the oldest is 18. Our oldest just started college. They were both happy accidents.
> 
> Me and my husband dated for two years before we got pregnant. We were not totally sure about us at that point. We kept putting off the wedding plans. When number two popped into the oven we knew we couldn't procrastinate anymore AND more importantly we where in a much better place then. We were financially better off. We were also madly in love. We never left each other's side. Sex was through the roof and we really felt like the worlds greatest team.
> 
> Everything was great. We didn't have much money and I have to admit I definitely beat him up about it. I and my husband hadn't gone to college. He didn't earn much, but we were happy. He was always a prince... And a bit of a rouge.
> 
> In 2010 my husband decided to quit his job and start a business. He always talked about it. It was his plan. I honestly never thought he would. He did. He ended up being very successful. But we emptied our saving and took a loan to make it work.
> 
> Those first few years of his business were the worst. I think that's when we became disconnected. We only saw each other in passing it seemed. I felt alone. Money was tight tight tight. I blamed him. Nothing was considered my fault.
> 
> What I know now is I should have spoken up. I should have been more open. I wanted his new business to work. It was always his dream. We both agreed sacrifices would need to be made. I nodded along to it all, but in my head, I knew I wouldn't like this.
> 
> I should have made opportunities. I should have done some initiating. I was expecting him to do everything. Build a future for our family be a great father. Romance me. He just couldn't do it all. Nobody really can. Not to mention I began what I assume my kids and husband probably refer to as the "***** years".
> 
> I picked fights with him. Nothing was ever good enough. Looking back on what I had become. I was an entitled little princess. I treated him very poorly. It wasn't all at once. It was gradual. I still don't know why I made him an enemy of my happiness in my head. I have more digging to do. I resented him. Like a little girl I was throwing a tantrum because I wasn't the absolute center of his world. How could I be? He had a lot to balance.
> 
> I'm ashamed to admit that I have never helped him financially. I was a stay at home mother since the first child. That changed 3 years ago after D day. (More on that later.) I didn't help keep track of money. Pay bills. Anything really. I raised my children ( I AM proud of that) and cooked and cleaned, but past that I shoved all responsibility onto his shoulders.
> 
> I created much of my own trouble. And to make it worse I added to my husband's burden at every point.
> 
> It was a downward spiral which I only pushed us further and further into. My husband began distancing himself. Who blames him?
> 
> ********************************************************************************
> 
> For the last 2 years, I have been buckling down and doing everything in my power to get him to love me again. I read this site and many stories like mine. I have practiced letting go of resentment and working on coping mechanisms.


----------



## sokillme

EleGirl said:


> I noticed the same think with the use of "I" and "me".
> 
> What really stood out were these statements:
> 
> Me and my husband dated for two years before we got pregnant.
> I and my husband hadn't gone to college
> .
> 
> It should be:
> 
> My husband and I dated for two years before we got pregnant.
> My husband and I hadn't gone to college
> 
> The rule is that put yourself last when talking about others and yourself.
> 
> @FoolishOne, you writing is overly filled with "I" and "me/my". This gives he appearance that you are very self centered. This is interesting because you write about how self absorbed you had been in the past.
> 
> You might want to read through what you wrote and think of how you could re-write it without the over use of those words. Why? Because it's an exercise that could help you re-focus your thought process.
> 
> Also, there are some books that I think would help you. Read them in this order. (all are written by Dr. Harley)
> 
> "Surviving an Affair"
> "Love Busters"
> "His Needs, Her Needs"
> 
> I think that they will help you understand that has gone on in your marriage and how to get your husband to end his affair and then how the two of you can fix your marriage.


I think there is merit in this, though maybe English isn't your primary language and that might explain the grammatical mistakes. @FoolishOne what do you think your husband would write if he were to tell what happened from his point of view?


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> That is NOT what i meant. At all. Even if he doesn't come clean he has no responsibility to me. I know that. I am not approaching this as my RIGHT to know or making this about him lying. I don't blame him 1 bit.
> 
> What i meant was i would lay my sins bare and hopefully he would tell me about his affair. Even if he doesn't i won't be mad. Sad yes. Mad no.
> 
> Please stop trying to twist EVERYTHING o say. I know the devil is in the detail, but some of what you guys are coming up with is not picking grammar and miscommunication.
> 
> I am NOT mad at my husband. I don't have that right. I started this. I can't make him a **** sandwich and then turn around and complain what he is serving me tastes an awful lot like ****.
> 
> I have a lot of growing and learning to do. I know that. Hopefully i can do all that with my husband beside me.


I don't think you should show him this place. This place can be your help away from him. Help you sort out wrong thinking before it even gets to him. I think you should tell him face to face, read a letter it is easier to write it down. He needs to see you as broken and contrite. If he is protective of you that may help. Besides that he deserves for once for you to brave your shame and bring from out of the shadows what has probably been haunting him for years. And frankly you deserve to see it and feel it too. Part of changing is facing head on what you have done. Enough with hiding. 

I DO like the idea of seeing if he comes clean at least for a little while. It may "MAY" give you an idea if he is receptive. It may be that he needs to see that the marriage is about to be over. Or it may be that he doesn't care.


----------



## hinterdir

He'll probably end up with this other woman. There's probably nothing you can really do at this point. The titanic fishers are too great at this point to ever bring back together.


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## personofinterest

People fished on the Titanic??


----------



## Decorum

PigglyWiggly said:


> I would let him read what you have posted here including the spying on him. Give him time to figure out what outcome he would like. I imagine the young gal is mostly about him feeling desired and rebuilding his self esteem. The optimist in me says that he might want to start over with you after having all the cards on the table and given some time.





personofinterest said:


> This is actually not a badd idea. There is just so much going on here, I can see why sitting down and trying to verbalize all of it would be difficult. You have laid every single thing out here, and you have gotten the perspective of several other people. I think letting your husband see all of it would be a good way to give him the entire truth.


These lady's make good points, and I think have the right balance.

I think your plan is a good one, i.e. kids away, hold off confronting, lay it all out.

I think @Andy1001makes a good point, you now realize what you have to lose and feel strongly about him now.

So do you really love him or is it all self interest?

Firstly there is a difference between selfishness and self interest.

Self interest is not bad in and of itself. It is actually the basis for much (but not all) attraction. 

Every relationship begins with each party having a certain amount of bonafide self interest. It is ok for you to have some now.

Selfishness results in a lack of sympathy for the other person's needs (i.e. his self-interest)

I think you are beginning to see that.

The most important thing you can do as you execute your plan is to show in a mature way, and in word and deed, that you recognize how you have failed to show sympathy, and respect/regard for him.

I dont think you should show him this thread yet, but write out a accurate timeline, and a bried description of how you abused him (as you stated above) give it to him.

Maybe in your own words say somthing like, "I have come to realize how badly I treated you during my affair, how wrong I was, and how wrong I am to never have been fully honest with you.

I believe you deserve to hear the truth from me, and to hear me acknowledge my failure to give you the love and respect you deserve. I will always regret how I have treated you".

At that point FoolishOne hand him the paper, answer any questions he asks, and wait. He may read it and walk away, that is ok. 

It is ok to cry, but at this time don't ask for anything from him. Such as "can we work through this, can you ever forgive me, etc", let him drive this over the next days, and just respond appropriately. 

I will leave it at that for now.

You are getting many helpful replys, so you have your work cut out for you.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

Decorum said:


> *These lady's make good points*, and I think have the right balance.


haha @personofinterest . Decorum called you a lady. >


----------



## BluesPower

personofinterest said:


> This is a disgusting and belittling post.
> 
> OP, don't try to compete sexually with the OW.
> 
> This reeks of cruelty, projection, and bitterness.
> 
> Take full responsibility for your actions and be completely honest with your husband.
> 
> But the above post is just pure disgusting spite. The isn't an incel forum.


It may be crude, but it is the complete and total truth. 

And, @personofinterest, I like what you write, I don't usually agree, but I kind of like it. 

You are a kind person. I get that. 

But OP Needs to read this. Her H has a hot young thing that wants to bang his brains out, ****ING good for him. 

She is getting what she still deserves...


----------



## PigglyWiggly

BluesPower said:


> It may be crude, but it is the complete and total truth.
> 
> And, @personofinterest, I like what you write, I don't usually agree, but I kind of like it.
> 
> You are a kind person. I get that.
> 
> But OP Needs to read this. Her H has a hot young thing that wants to bang his brains out, ****ING good for him.
> 
> She is getting what she still deserves...


I disagree with you and agree with @personofinterest If he wants to bang someone else, he should divorce just as his wife should have. They will both look the same in the eyes of the kids.


----------



## Decorum

PigglyWiggly said:


> haha @personofinterest . Decorum called you a lady. >


:slap:


----------



## smi11ie

I actually feel that you are a candidate for reconciliation, but I am not sure your husband will be.

I think you should write him a letter. In you should include a timeline and details of your affair. When you hand it to him you should tell him you know about his affair. 

If he is not willing to end his affair then you should file for divorce. 

In this case I don’t see the point of you snooping any more. Just put everything on the table. Just be ready to accept that your marriage could be over already.


----------



## personofinterest

PigglyWiggly said:


> haha @personofinterest . Decorum called you a lady. >


I know how to be a lady when called for. I have the "coming out" photos to prove it. No, not THAT kind of coming out lol. The kind where you wear a big dress and use finger bowls and walk gracefully hahaha


----------



## BluesPower

PigglyWiggly said:


> I disagree with you and agree with @personofinterest If he wants to bang someone else, he should divorce just as his wife should have. They will both look the same in the eyes of the kids.


Would you give me a Freaking break? 

You are kidding right. Did you read what she did? The guy was out building a better life for HER and HER CHILDREN and the princess was not getting enough attention. 

No I am not saying that it is right, and don't say that you and personofinterest are not entitled to your opinions. 

But for me I just could not disagree more. 

That is the thing that a lot of woman don't understand. They go out an screw around, and they think that their husbands won't do the same because he is too beta or to nice. 

Not the case at all in a lot of situations. When I was working through my divorce, frankly even before, there were so many woman chasing me, that some real nice ones got left in the dirt because I did not have time to bang them. I was just too busy.

And OMG, my ex got so jealous so many times. One time I asked her, "What the **** did you expect?" 

No, she is getting what she fully deserves. Further, I know that she is trying but what she did and has done after the affair is just as bad. 

Now her sins are coming back to haunt her, well good. And even now, in her opening post, it is all about her. She did everything wrong after the affair, except tell the truth and stop the affair. Nothing but manipulation the whole time, even now. 

No I just could not disagree with you two guys any more than I do...


----------



## PigglyWiggly

BluesPower said:


> No I just could not disagree with you two guys any more than I do...


HAHA @personofinterest . Now you've been called a guy. You are so mysterious.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

personofinterest said:


> I know how to be a lady when called for. I have the "coming out" photos to prove it. No, not THAT kind of coming out lol. The kind where you wear a big dress and use finger bowls and walk gracefully hahaha


Dangit....I thought my comment would lead you to the deeper humor...Decorum also called ME a lady


----------



## PigglyWiggly

BluesPower said:


> Would you give me a Freaking break?
> 
> You are kidding right. Did you read what she did? The guy was out building a better life for HER and HER CHILDREN and the princess was not getting enough attention.
> 
> No I am not saying that it is right, and don't say that you and personofinterest are not entitled to your opinions.
> 
> But for me I just could not disagree more.
> 
> That is the thing that a lot of woman don't understand. They go out an screw around, and they think that their husbands won't do the same because he is too beta or to nice.
> 
> Not the case at all in a lot of situations. When I was working through my divorce, frankly even before, there were so many woman chasing me, that some real nice ones got left in the dirt because I did not have time to bang them. I was just too busy.
> 
> And OMG, my ex got so jealous so many times. One time I asked her, "What the **** did you expect?"
> 
> No, she is getting what she fully deserves. Further, I know that she is trying but what she did and has done after the affair is just as bad.
> 
> Now her sins are coming back to haunt her, well good. And even now, in her opening post, it is all about her. She did everything wrong after the affair, except tell the truth and stop the affair. Nothing but manipulation the whole time, even now.
> 
> No I just could not disagree with you two guys any more than I do...


Thanks for explaining your perspective. Now, I will explain mine. In my opinion, a man of honor and integrity doesn't lose that because someone else lost theirs. We will just agree to disagree :toast:


----------



## personofinterest

PigglyWiggly said:


> Thanks for explaining your perspective. Now, I will explain mine. In my opinion, a man of honor and integrity doesn't lose that because someone else lost theirs. We will just agree to disagree :toast:


I agree because where does it end?

If his bad behavior is okay because of her bad behavior....then is her bad behavior okay because of his prior bad behavior....and so on....

One either believes in person responsibility and integrity or one does not. Once you decide that your integrity can be on a sliding scale compared to someone else's...you kind of don't have it anymore.


----------



## personofinterest

PigglyWiggly said:


> Dangit....I thought my comment would lead you to the deeper humor...Decorum also called ME a lady


I could sing Dude Looks Like a Lady but I don't want to get banned lolol


----------



## faithfulman

BluesPower said:


> It may be crude, but it is the complete and total truth.
> 
> And, @personofinterest, I like what you write, I don't usually agree, but I kind of like it.
> 
> You are a kind person. I get that.
> 
> But OP Needs to read this. Her H has a hot young thing that wants to bang his brains out, ****ING good for him.
> 
> She is getting what she still deserves...


I'm just trying to be real. 

But Personofinterest is not totally wrong either. What I wrote was disgusting and belittling - but the whole situation is disgusting and belittling!

I'm just calling it like I see it. It's gross. Quite frankly what is happening to this family makes me sick. It didn't have to happen. And it hasn't gotten better. 

The new dynamic, as the OP stated herself, is that she is now competing with a younger woman.

And I am pointing out that he is having freaky sex with that younger woman. That has to be taken into consideration, and it makes reconciliation that much less likely. 

Husband has checked out of his marriage and checked into a side piece.

If anyone thinks he will take an apology, a complete admission, ditch the FGF (Freaky GirlFriend) and then go back to vanilla sex with his WW they are waaaaay off. I saw OP's sex reply already and it appears she knows better than that.


----------



## BluesPower

PigglyWiggly said:


> Thanks for explaining your perspective. Now, I will explain mine. In my opinion, a man of honor and integrity doesn't lose that because someone else lost theirs. We will just agree to disagree :toast:





personofinterest said:


> I agree because where does it end?
> 
> If his bad behavior is okay because of her bad behavior....then is her bad behavior okay because of his prior bad behavior....and so on....
> 
> One either believes in person responsibility and integrity or one does not. Once you decide that your integrity can be on a sliding scale compared to someone else's...you kind of don't have it anymore.


I appreciate both or your opinions, and I still disagree. (And PW, you guys was the generic "you guys")

And the thing that POI I think misses, is the OP's husband did NOTHING wrong except work his butt off to build a successful business, that is all he did. 

I don't necessarily condone his behavior, I am just staying that she is getting exactly what she deserves. 

Now if she got real after the affair, stopped it when she said she would, did not lie and gas light and manipulate and rug sweep, I might feel differently. 

And PW, most of the time, the men with honor and integrity get walked on and screwed over.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

BluesPower said:


> I appreciate both or your opinions, and I still disagree. (And PW, you guys was the generic "you guys")
> 
> And the thing that POI I think misses, is the OP's husband did NOTHING wrong except work his butt off to build a successful business, that is all he did.
> 
> I don't necessarily condone his behavior, I am just staying that she is getting exactly what she deserves.
> 
> Now is she got real after the affair, stopped it when she said she would, did not lie and gas light and manipulate and rug sweep, I might feel differently.
> 
> And PW, most of the time, the men with honor and integrity get walked on and screwed over.


I knew what you meant with the "you guys". Decorum had just said, " I agreed with "you ladies" when quoting Personofinterest and I so I was just having some fun that I was a "lady" and she was a "guy". :grin2:


----------



## BluesPower

faithfulman said:


> I'm just trying to be real.
> 
> But Personofinterest is not totally wrong either. What I wrote was disgusting and belittling - but the whole situation is disgusting and belittling!
> 
> I'm just calling it like I see it. It's gross. Quite frankly what is happening to this family makes me sick. It didn't have to happen. And it hasn't gotten better.
> 
> The new dynamic, as the OP stated herself, is that she is now competing with a younger woman.
> 
> And I am pointing out that he is having freaky sex with that younger woman. That has to be taken into consideration, and it makes reconciliation that much less likely.
> 
> Husband has checked out of his marriage and checked into a side piece.
> 
> If anyone thinks he will take an apology, a complete admission, ditch the FGF (Freaky GirlFriend) and then go back to vanilla sex with his WW they are waaaaay off. I saw OP's sex reply already and it appears she knows better than that.


I don't disagree. And I am not saying what he is doing what is right. 

I am just saying that she is getting exactly what she deserves for what she has done and until she corrects that, which she may not be able to now, she still deserves it. 

Now, I will give her credit for figuring out the sex part, because in her sex post she sounded like she figured that part on, so I give her credit. 

But frankly the marriage kind of seems over to me. The thing is that, even now, she does not realize that her posts are still all about her. She just does not get it. 

As hard as he was working, building a successful business for his wife and family, she should have appreciated it. The right thing to do would have been give him a BJ when he got home from work if he was too tired for sex. 

But no, what did princess do? Have an affair with a loser.

Yeah, Karma is a *****...


----------



## faithfulman

FoolishOne said:


> Sex isn't a problem. That i know of.... Though he may say differently. After the affair i learned to be more aggressive and initiate. I surprise him with morning sex and middle of the night sex. I buy sexy outfits. Role play. We actually have sex almost daily sometimes when the youngest is out we do it all day. Laying around the house naked and what not..
> 
> I changed the way i thought about sex. Sex was all about me before. I didn't want to initiate. Didn't want to work at it. I thought it was the man's job to seduce his wife. I thought it was beneath a woman's dignity to ask for sex. I left it all to him. That changed. I love our new sex life. We have tried new things , i have never done with anyone else. Some i love and some he loves. some we love together. I don't want to be tmi about this so i will leave it there. There is absolutely nothing im not willing to try at least once.
> 
> If i had one problem (a small one) it would be that at times he treats me like meat. He gets a cold look and becomes almost robotic and distant after sex. Im sure its mind movies or something like that. Or maybe he just gets disgusted with me from time to time.


I think you understood that I was describing the situation as I see it.

I'm terribly sorry if it seemed like I was instructing you in some way.

***

Now think about this: You really "stepped it up" sex-wise, correct?

Has it made any difference really? He still has the girlfriend as far as you know.

He's willing to **** you, but he is distant. At times he treats you like a sex toy.

That's because all the sex-bombing (That's what you are doing) in the world is meaningless without the truth.

You cannot make up for your unadmitted hurtful actions just by being better in bed.

You have to tell him the truth. 

That way if he decides to try to reconcile with you, he is not trying to rebuild on a foundation of lies.

If he reconciles and learns more later, he is going to despise you. Even if he just believes there is more.

I know it must be as scary as hell to contemplate. But the ship be sinkin'.

And even then all odds are against you, but you're giving yourself just the slightest chance. 

But you must understand this reality: Dudes don't easily get over their wives ****ing other dudes. THE MAJORITY WILL NOT GET OVER IT.

Good luck to your family.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Guys, in the end what does it matter who behaved badly first, or last, the bottom line is that this marriage is in crisis, and she wants to fix it...so she is seeking ways to fix it, and asking our advice.


----------



## sokillme

faithfulman said:


> I'm just trying to be real.
> 
> But Personofinterest is not totally wrong either. What I wrote was disgusting and belittling - but the whole situation is disgusting and belittling!
> 
> I'm just calling it like I see it. It's gross. Quite frankly what is happening to this family makes me sick. It didn't have to happen. And it hasn't gotten better.
> 
> The new dynamic, as the OP stated herself, is that she is now competing with a younger woman.
> 
> And I am pointing out that he is having freaky sex with that younger woman. That has to be taken into consideration, and it makes reconciliation that much less likely.
> 
> Husband has checked out of his marriage and checked into a side piece.
> 
> If anyone thinks he will take an apology, a complete admission, ditch the FGF (Freaky GirlFriend) and then go back to vanilla sex with his WW they are waaaaay off. I saw OP's sex reply already and it appears she knows better than that.


Her only chance is he loves her still and some of this is acting out to hurt her. It's possible. I think it's more likely what I said in my post to her, she changed the rules of the marriage when she had the affair but even worse when she downplayed it and continued to do it. He probably felt tortured like he was losing his mind because he probably knew it was more but she wouldn't acknowledge it. Also if he ever found out that she went back to this guy. That's the kind of stuff that makes you start to hate the person you are with, or at least kill any remaining feeling because it's just too painful to love them anymore. 

I also don't agree with stepping out if your spouse cheated but mostly because I don't even agree with staying with your spouse. I believe the marriage is dead the moment someone cheats so I don't see it as cheating necessarily. Though if you are staying for the kids you should say, you are staying for the kids. In general I think you hamstring yourself if you do this though because if you really meet someone good whom you could fall in love with, you still have to split your time. It is patently obvious that you have to be broken to fall in love with someone and still be willing to split your time.

This is why I don't believe you can have a great storybook love affair with someone you are having an extramarital affair with. I mean you mean to tell me you love them with this great love, but you are willing to split your time with them and someone else. Nah that's bull****, if you really love someone you want to build a life with them, spend the most important moments of your life with them, wake up with them. Now that also points out how broken WS are and how ineffectual their love is. "My affair partner is the love of my life!" Really the love of your life huh? You didn't even love them enough to want to go to bed with them every night. Some love. 

This also leads to another point, unless the affair is an exit affair, the fact that the cheating spouse doesn't leave just shows that you as the BS have all the power, by not leaving your cheating spouse is effectively saying, yes I enjoy, maybe even "love" this person I am with, but not enough to leave my marriage over them. This shows their priorities. Which is why it makes sense to threaten divorce. They obviously don't wan to leave the marriage because if they did they would, so you can use that over them. This situation is case in point. As soon as OP realized that she was about to lose the marriage now she wants it. Now why you would want them is another point.


----------



## faithfulman

Lostinthought61 said:


> Guys, in the end what does it matter who behaved badly first, or last, the bottom line is that this marriage is in crisis, and she wants to fix it...so she is seeking ways to fix it, and asking our advice.


If I make like I am going to shake your hand, then haul off and sucker-punch you, just flattening you, then you get up, dust yourself off and flatten me, does it matter who threw the first punch?

Or course it does. In real life.

It doesn't make the retaliation "right", but I forfeit my right to complain. What did I think would happen?


----------



## BluesPower

Lostinthought61 said:


> Guys, in the end what does it matter who behaved badly first, or last, the bottom line is that this marriage is in crisis, and she wants to fix it...so she is seeking ways to fix it, and asking our advice.


Sorry buddy, it does matter. That has been my entire point. 

She wants to fix it, after she had and affair on a successful, loving husband, that was busting his butt for his family, lied and gas lite him, continued the affair, rug swept and manipulated the entire situation. 

So yeah, it really does matter. You think that he does not know she is a liar? You think he does not know what really happened? You would be wrong. 

She want to fix it, the stop being a selfish, self absorbed, entitled princess and tell the ****ing truth. 

Like others have said, lay it out on the table, confront him at the same time, as if he wants to stay married and if he does not, then don't rake him over the coals in the divorce. 

If she wanted to fix it, she would have already done this....


----------



## sokillme

BluesPower said:


> Sorry buddy, it does matter. That has been my entire point.
> 
> She wants to fix it, after she had and affair on a successful, loving husband, that was busting his butt for his family, lied and gas lite him, continued the affair, rug swept and manipulated the entire situation.
> 
> So yeah, it really does matter. You think that he does not know she is a liar? You think he does not know what really happened? You would be wrong.
> 
> She want to fix it, the stop being a selfish, self absorbed, entitled princess and tell the ****ing truth.
> 
> Like others have said, lay it out on the table, confront him at the same time, as if he wants to stay married and if he does not, then don't rake him over the coals in the divorce.
> 
> If she wanted to fix it, she would have already done this....


Yeah the other problem is OP has given away all her credibility. That is why it matters. It's would be a mistake not to take that into account when giving advice. We have to try to help her navigate a solution even though her actions have severely damaged standing with him, and on this subject in general.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

Lostinthought61 said:


> Guys, in the end what does it matter who behaved badly first, or last, the bottom line is that this marriage is in crisis, and she wants to fix it...so she is seeking ways to fix it, and asking our advice.


It's more fun to beat her up. If we acknowledged her bad behavior and then offered compassion and advice, we would look like a bunch of weak betas. We are Alphas, hear us ROAAAARRRRR


----------



## Lostinthought61

BluesPower said:


> Sorry buddy, it does matter. That has been my entire point.
> 
> She wants to fix it, after she had and affair on a successful, loving husband, that was busting his butt for his family, lied and gas lite him, continued the affair, rug swept and manipulated the entire situation.
> 
> So yeah, it really does matter. You think that he does not know she is a liar? You think he does not know what really happened? You would be wrong.
> 
> She want to fix it, the stop being a selfish, self absorbed, entitled princess and tell the ****ing truth.
> 
> Like others have said, lay it out on the table, confront him at the same time, as if he wants to stay married and if he does not, then don't rake him over the coals in the divorce.
> 
> If she wanted to fix it, she would have already done this....


if you read any of my original comment i said the same exact thing.


----------



## GusPolinski

PigglyWiggly said:


> Thanks for explaining your perspective. Now, I will explain mine. In my opinion, *a man of honor and integrity doesn't lose that because someone else lost theirs.* We will just agree to disagree :toast:


Exactly correct.

And that’s not opinion —

That’s _fact_.

All this “tit for tat” bull**** is what _children_ do.


----------



## Lostinthought61

BluesPower said:


> Sorry buddy, it does matter. That has been my entire point.
> 
> She wants to fix it, after she had and affair on a successful, loving husband, that was busting his butt for his family, lied and gas lite him, continued the affair, rug swept and manipulated the entire situation.
> 
> So yeah, it really does matter. You think that he does not know she is a liar? You think he does not know what really happened? You would be wrong.
> 
> She want to fix it, the stop being a selfish, self absorbed, entitled princess and tell the ****ing truth.
> 
> Like others have said, lay it out on the table, confront him at the same time, as if he wants to stay married and if he does not, then don't rake him over the coals in the divorce.
> 
> If she wanted to fix it, she would have already done this....


We are not dealing with individuals who do not know what is going on below the surface, and she clearly knows that she drove him to this by her actions and in actions, but rather than coming to the realization that they are really hurting each other as well the kids you would rather they argue about who cheated first.....okay she did and she admitted that to us and wants to come clean with him. As i noted in my first post her first course of action is to come clean and see if there is something to save.


----------



## MattMatt

Lostinthought61 said:


> let's be honest guys the affair the husband is having is with a sugar baby...its not going to go anywhere. they are in lust at best not love. i think if they both come clean and open the lines of communication they have a fighting chance if they are both willing to try. from a negotiating perspective this is a level playing field.


From my own experience of a stupid revenge affair, my revenge AP was nowhere near as attractive as my wife.

So... why was she my AP? She was into Star Trek Voyager as I was (my wife is not a fan of Star Trek!) and I think that after a period of self-analysis, I came to the conclusion that I wanted to be with someone who hadn't cheated on me. Yeah, I know. Poor thought processes, but brought about by way too much alcohol used as self medication.

My wife and I got through it and we're still together.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

BluesPower said:


> Sorry buddy, it does matter. That has been my entire point.
> 
> She wants to fix it, after she had and affair on a successful, loving husband, that was busting his butt for his family, lied and gas lite him, continued the affair, rug swept and manipulated the entire situation.
> 
> So yeah, it really does matter. You think that he does not know she is a liar? You think he does not know what really happened? You would be wrong.
> 
> She want to fix it, the stop being a selfish, self absorbed, entitled princess and tell the ****ing truth.
> 
> Like others have said, lay it out on the table, confront him at the same time, as if he wants to stay married and if he does not, then don't rake him over the coals in the divorce.
> 
> *If she wanted to fix it, she would have already done this.*...


Be careful there or you might pull a muscle. If she had a history of making the correct decision, I would agree with you. Since she does not, she came her for advice. You sound like you are projecting your past pain and looking for some vengeance. Maybe you aren't but that's how it looks. Who would want to humble themselves here for their crappy behavior while seeking advice after reading some of the responses in this thread. Are we really wanting to give her helpful advice or just disquise it while we berate her? This type of conflict resolution looks like a bunch of highschool kids. We can do better.


----------



## BluesPower

PigglyWiggly said:


> It's more fun to beat her up. If we acknowledged her bad behavior and then offered compassion and advice, we would look like a bunch of weak betas. We are Alphas, hear us ROAAAARRRRR


I think you are joking, but I will play along. 

Here is the thing about "beating her up"... We cannot advice a person like this if they do not realize the mistakes and the improper thinking the she is guilty of. 

Now the thread title was good, but her opening post was just so self serving. It was all about her. 

While she was smart enough to realize the mistakes the she made in the attempted reconciliation, she was not smart enough to realize that even 3 years later the fact that she lied, manipulated and gas lite her husband, was going to be a killer. 

So STILL did not believe or understand that she was still being selfish and she always has been. 

No, her first post was about how SHE DECIDED to LOVE him back, not she decided to come completely clean, and become completely broken, and love her HUSBAND because she LOVED him. And if he wanted to leave she should have made it EASY for him to leave. 

But the got to have some strange, be a princess, and LOVE her husband back, not for him, not for what she owed him, but to save HER Marriage, to SAVE HER from the shame of being divorce by her husband because she was a cheating slime ball. 

Do you not see that THAT is why you have to wake people up if you can... 

It is not beating her up for fun, it is beating her up so that she will wake the **** up...


----------



## PigglyWiggly

BluesPower said:


> I think you are joking, but I will play along.
> 
> Here is the thing about "beating her up"... We cannot advice a person like this if they do not realize the *mistakes and the improper thinking the she is guilty of.*
> 
> Now the thread title was good, but her opening post was just so self serving. It was all about her.
> 
> While she was smart enough to realize the mistakes the she made in the attempted reconciliation, *she was not smart enough* to realize that even 3 years later the fact that she lied, manipulated and gas lite her husband, was going to be a killer.
> 
> So STILL did not believe or understand that she was still being selfish and she always has been.
> 
> No, her first post was about how SHE DECIDED to LOVE him back, not she decided to come completely clean, and become completely broken, and love her HUSBAND because she LOVED him. And if he wanted to leave she should have made it EASY for him to leave.
> 
> But the got to have some strange, be a princess, and LOVE her husband back, not for him, not for what she owed him, but to save HER Marriage, to SAVE HER from the shame of being divorce by her husband because she was a cheating slime ball.
> 
> Do you not see that THAT is why you have to wake people up if you can...
> 
> It is not beating her up for fun, it is beating her up so that she will wake the **** up...


Read the bolded that you typed. Is berating how you educate someone who is not smart enough or has improper thinking? By offering this woman compassionate advice, what do YOU lose? By berating her YOU lose dignity and some respect. Think on it. I might be wrong. Could you be wrong here?


----------



## BluesPower

PigglyWiggly said:


> Read the bolded that you typed. Is berating how you educate someone who is not smart enough or has improper thinking? By offering this woman compassionate advice, what do YOU lose? By berating her YOU lose dignity and some respect. Think on it. I might be wrong. Could you be wrong here?


You know, I am willing to say maybe. But that is all. Do I think I am? Nope. 

Here is the deal, your projection comments aside, which are wrong, but OK. I do have a lot of experience with this stuff, personally, with friends, and on the internet. 

Now maybe I am to harsh, OK. But people like OP in my opinion do not wake up with feathers. They wake up when they get a 2x4 in their head. 

And if you will read the post before this one, I point out how her thinking and her continued selfishness got her to this place. Agree or disagree, fine.

Now if she would come back and say, OK guys, I am a selfish ***** and I understand now, then ok. We can start with the compassion. 

Until then, no. You see it took several people here to point out that, hey, you continued the affair, gas lite and all of the rest, you need to confess that to your husband and come clean. 

She STILL needs to be asking his forgiveness after three years of lying and manipulating. 

So let's see if she tells the truth and how she does at that, and confronts her H about his affair, and see what happens. 

*********

And let's talk about the slurs that many like to give to the frank hard ass posters, like me. 

Yes I have been cheated on, and I have cheated, I understand that there are ways to do things that may help and there are ways to do things that will not. 

And I understand that there are things that people do to each other that are 1) worse than an affair, and 2) you never get over. 

But you know, I think we should avoid that, we should be able to all talk and give our opinions back and forth, no harm no foul. 

Don't you think?


----------



## GusPolinski

Lostinthought61 said:


> We are not dealing with individuals who do not know what is going on below the surface, and *she clearly knows that she drove him to this by her actions* and in actions, but rather than coming to the realization that they are really hurting each other as well the kids you would rather they argue about who cheated first.....okay she did and she admitted that to us and wants to come clean with him. As i noted in my first post her first course of action is to come clean and see if there is something to save.


Careful there — if she drove him to his affair then it’s at least plausible that he drove her to hers.

Right?

Or maybe they’re each responsible for their own bull****.


----------



## personofinterest

Shhhhhhh Gus....dont be logical


----------



## faithfulman

> I think you are joking, but I will play along.
> 
> Here is the thing about "beating her up"... We cannot advice a person like this if they do not realize the mistakes and the improper thinking the she is guilty of.
> 
> Now the thread title was good, but her opening post was just so self serving. It was all about her.
> 
> While she was smart enough to realize the mistakes the she made in the attempted reconciliation, she was not smart enough to realize that even 3 years later the fact that she lied, manipulated and gas lite her husband, was going to be a killer.
> 
> So STILL did not believe or understand that she was still being selfish and she always has been.
> 
> No, her first post was about how SHE DECIDED to LOVE him back, not she decided to come completely clean, and become completely broken, and love her HUSBAND because she LOVED him. And if he wanted to leave she should have made it EASY for him to leave.
> 
> But the got to have some strange, be a princess, and LOVE her husband back, not for him, not for what she owed him, but to save HER Marriage, to SAVE HER from the shame of being divorce by her husband because she was a cheating slime ball.
> 
> Do you not see that THAT is why you have to wake people up if you can...
> 
> It is not beating her up for fun, it is beating her up so that she will wake the **** up...


Exaaaaactly. 

Further, she is looking for a solution. The actual truth is that there is probably no solution. She has probably irreconcilably wrecked the sacred union of her marriage with her ever-more selfish behavior.

"I ****ed over my husband before and I still am lying, he is banging a 20-something help me fix this!"

This situation is BRUTAL. It requires brutal honesty. You can't talk your way out of it. Or **** your way out of it. 

All you can do is FINALLY BE HONEST and hope like hell there is still a teeny smoldering ember of love and desire in your husband willing to try. 

And even that is an infinitesimal chance. 

If others wants to dodge the brutal parts, feel free! I'm not jumping on your case, why are you jumping on mine with all this passive aggressive side-talk? 

And I am encouraging too!

That is, I am encouraging the OP to FINALLY DO THE RIGHT THING. And encouraging her to take a real hard truthful look at all of her actions. And the situation.

Encouraging her to understand she cannot control this outcome.

That's way more helpful than patting her on the back.


----------



## MattMatt

faithfulman said:


> Exaaaaactly.
> 
> Further, she is looking for a solution. The actual truth is that there is probably no solution. She has probably irreconcilably wrecked the sacred union of her marriage with her ever-more selfish behavior.
> 
> "I ****ed over my husband before and I still am lying, he is banging a 20-something help me fix this!"
> 
> This situation is BRUTAL. It requires brutal honesty. You can't talk your way out of it. Or **** your way out of it.
> 
> All you can do is FINALLY BE HONEST and hope like hell there is still a teeny smoldering ember of love and desire in your husband willing to try.
> 
> And even that is an infinitesimal chance.
> 
> If others wants to dodge the brutal parts, feel free! I'm not jumping on your case, why are you jumping on mine with all this passive aggressive side-talk?
> 
> And I am encouraging too!
> 
> That is, I am encouraging the OP to FINALLY DO THE RIGHT THING. And encouraging her to take a real hard truthful look at all of her actions. And the situation.
> 
> Encouraging her to understand she cannot control this outcome.
> 
> That's way more helpful than patting her on the back.


No one is patting her on the back. Get real! :rofl:


----------



## faithfulman

MattMatt said:


> No one is patting her on the back. Get real! :rofl:


True. I'm just being a bit dramatic. 

Similarly, I and the other commentors who are taking a similar approach are not like: "I am alpha hear me roooaar!"

That was a bit dramatic too, wouldn't you say?


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed the same thing with the use of "I" and "me".
> 
> What really stood out were these statements:
> 
> 
> Me and my husband dated for two years before we got pregnant.
> I and my husband hadn't gone to college
> .
> 
> It should be:
> 
> 
> My husband and I dated for two years before we got pregnant.
> My husband and I hadn't gone to college
> 
> The rule is that put yourself last when talking about others and yourself.
> 
> @FoolishOne, you writing is overly filled with "I" and "me/my". This gives the appearance that you are very self-centered. This is interesting because you write about how self-absorbed you had been in the past.
> 
> You might want to read through what you wrote and think of how you could re-write it without the over the use of those words. Why? Because it's an exercise that could help you re-focus your thought process.
> 
> Also, there are some books that I think would help you. Read them in this order. (all are written by Dr. Harley)
> 
> "Surviving an Affair"
> "Love Busters"
> "His Needs, Her Needs"
> 
> I think that they will help you understand that has gone on in your marriage and how to get your husband to end his affair and then how the two of you can fix your marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> I think there is merit in this, though maybe English isn't your primary language and that might explain the grammatical mistakes. @FoolishOne what do you think your husband would write if he were to tell what happened from his point of view?
Click to expand...

What would my husband say? 

I'm honestly afraid to know. I know it probably wouldn't be pretty. I hope the first decade and the last 2 years were enough to convince him I'm not evil, but I can't be sure.

I truly wasn't a harpy when we dated and early marriage. I don't know the exact time it started, but I would say the idea that my husband was responsible for my happiness played a large part. I had this idea that love was like the sun and always burned bright or it wasn't loved. I didn't know love wanes. It needs to be built and repaired and maintained and that I would have to pull MY weight as well. That to be a true team I needed to make sacrifices just the same as him and appreciate the sacrifices he made. And not blame him for the sacrifices I was forced to make. We all compromise, but I nodded my head and buried resentment.

I had this silly idea that he enjoyed working. That he used it to avoid me. And maybe he did. I couldn't have been much fun to be around. But it simply wasn't true to start. Every time he could be there with us, he was. I look back at some of those pictures from that time and he looks tired in most of them. 

I understand better now. I actually think my new understanding if love is much deeper. It's not flashy and storybook-like. I'm not the protagonist of a romance novel. I am not a queen or princess. I had a lot of entitlement. It was easier to feed the beast earlier. After my husband had more on his plate he simply had no time to deal with my nonsense. I sort of expected him to be Superman. He tried. No one is Superman. 

I admire my husband. He is attractive. Smart. Funny and strong. We do have a connection. Emotional and sexual.

BUT I never respected him until I realized he could leave. It took a good older friend to smash some insight into my head. It took me being clear of a conniving weasel whispering in my ear. 

I will never forget how I treated him. My past is a map of what not to do. Every single interaction with my husband is taken from a different angle entirely now. 
I'm not the center of my own universe anymore. 

One of the greatest feelings in the world for me was when my husband started showing appreciation for my efforts. I was making life easier for him. He was having a good night because I had pulled my weight and not unloading the massive pile of my negativity on him.

As that happened more and more I felt better about us, myself, our family. I was part of a team. We started laughing and operating as a couple again. All or nearly all of my small (but blown out of proportion) gripes solved themselves or took little effort to deal with. Communication became easier. I stopped being defensive and looked at his side of the argument. He opened up. I did as well, but not fully. Stupid me.

Is that why this is happening now? Is that why my husband is with another woman? I don't know. Even if he is just cake eating, I want to work this out.

But I do know we can't continue like this. I'm ashamed it seems to always take me being close to losing him to realize I need to change. I want to be TRULY open with him. I'm afraid of rejection. I am. But can't bury my head in the sand anymore.

I built all of the new me and new relationship on a lie. Dozens of them. I told myself no NEW lies. Let the old ones lay. You can forget and build anew. I was wrong. Even when I saw people suffering the same thing on boards like these that I probably am going to now, I still told myself not me. It won't happen to me. What he doesn't know won't hurt him. What he could know, would. I was wrong. How could you love someone you can't trust? How can you truly love someone when you hold a lie and betrayal from them like this?


----------



## OutofRetirement

I'm not sure - actually, I am really sure - that telling him you are better in bed now because the other man taught you - is not going to help the marriage.
, 
But your husband is not stupid. He knew what you did. He knows you never told the truth, even to this day. He just decided he'd have to eat the big poop sandwich until the kids were out of the house. Then he figured in the meantime he might as well enjoy himself a little. Talk about resentment? Talk about a reason?

About the "meat" - that does happen. It happened with me, I think my wife liked it more. I know other guys have said the same thing. At least for me, and I know at least a few other guys (and I have talked about this to very few), part of the emotional part died a little. It feels like once those cells are gone, they don't come back. Not the same way.

As far as thinking the marriage was stronger than ever, I could write that, too. I'm sure my wife thinks that. I know she's so happy how things are going. And on the surface, everything's better. But inside, my emotions, it still hurts. Quite a bit. But only when I think about it. Which I try to avoid. My youngest is a little younger than yours. Than I have a decision to make.

There are some things you cannot undo. You are who you are. Change is very difficult. And I see zero change in you. None. I don't see that YOU changed at all. Your SITUATION changed, and you are now on the other side of the fence.


----------



## Decorum

OutofRetirement said:


> I'm not sure - actually, I am really sure - that telling him you are better in bed now because the other man taught you - is not going to help the marriage.


I must have missed this @FoolishOne do not ever ever ever say this, it will be the final nail in thd coffin. 

You still have much to learn about what you put him through, but one of those things is feeling inadequate, and making comparisons. 

Lets talk more before you say anything like this.

Just no!


----------



## faithfulman

FoolishOne, what you wrote in post #88 was bordering in beautiful. It showed a lot of self-awareness that was not communicated in you earlier posts. 

I hope your family can heal.

That is a real longshot. 

But what you must do is take care of your daughters and take care of yourself. Counseling. Health. Etc.

Life will continue no matter how this ends up.

And if your husband will let you, then you can try to take care of him too.

But you must steel yourself for the overwhelming likelihood that he does not want your help any longer.

Please, tell him the truth. I wish you well.


----------



## FoolishOne

faithfulman said:


> BluesPower said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may be crude, but it is the complete and total truth.
> 
> And, @personofinterest, I like what you write, I don't usually agree, but I kind of like it.
> 
> You are a kind person. I get that.
> 
> But OP Needs to read this. Her H has a hot young thing that wants to bang his brains out, ****ING good for him.
> 
> She is getting what she still deserves...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just trying to be real.
> 
> But Personofinterest is not totally wrong either. What I wrote was disgusting and belittling - but the whole situation is disgusting and belittling!
> 
> I'm just calling it like I see it. It's gross. Quite frankly what is happening to this family makes me sick. It didn't have to happen. And it hasn't gotten better.
> 
> The new dynamic, as the OP stated herself, is that she is now competing with a younger woman.
> 
> And I am pointing out that he is having freaky sex with that younger woman. That has to be taken into consideration, and it makes reconciliation that much less likely.
> 
> Husband has checked out of his marriage and checked into a side piece.
> 
> If anyone thinks he will take an apology, a complete admission, ditch the FGF (Freaky GirlFriend) and then go back to vanilla sex with his WW they are waaaaay off. I saw OP's sex reply already and it appears she knows better than that.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about vanilla sex with my husband? Besides anything that hurts there is basically nothing i won't or havent tried at this point with my husband. Freaky is on the menu and it is served often enough for both or tastes.


----------



## faithfulman

FoolishOne said:


> Who said anything about vanilla sex with my husband? Besides anything that hurts there is basically nothing i won't or havent tried at this point with my husband. Freaky is on the menu and it is served often enough for both or tastes.


It appears that POI thought I was instructing you to out-sex the other woman. 

I wasn't. 

But I was saying that make no mistake, he is comparing.

And that he probably wouldn't want to go back to any type of typical sexual activity after the bar has been set to anal that has been recorded on video.

***

Do you think he wanted you to find those videos?


----------



## FoolishOne

OutofRetirement said:


> I'm not sure - actually, I am really sure - that telling him you are better in bed now because the other man taught you - is not going to help the marriage.
> 
> There are some thin.


Who in the HELL ever said that?!!! Stop that right ****ing now. My ap couldn't have taught me a god damn thing if he had 100 extra years of experience on me let alone the few pathetic relationships he did have. My ap was NOT some Cassanova. He was not a new awakening. He was a slimeball I let hump me so I could feed on his ego kibble. I learned absolutely nothing from that man, but how to be a more awful me. He was a shoulder I cried on and like a **ore I paid him in sex. I have no fond memory of that man and how low I had sunk.

It was AFTER my affair that I began taking on our sex life from a different perspective... Mostly because he wouldn't initiate. But also because in a ****ed up part of my head I believed he deserved it. I enjoyed it. What was to lose? When he showed appreciation for me initiating or showing aggression and lust it filled me with glee.


----------



## faithfulman

> I'm not sure - actually, I am really sure - that telling him you are better in bed now because the other man taught you - is not going to help the marriage.





FoolishOne said:


> Who in the HELL ever said that?!!! Stop that right ****ing now. My ap couldn't have taught me a god damn thing if he had 100 extra years of experience on me let alone the few pathetic relationships he did have. My ap was NOT some Cassanova. He was not a new awakening. He was a slimeball I let hump me so I could feed on his ego kibble. I learned absolutely nothing from that man , but how to be a more awful me. He was a shoulder I cried on and like a **ore I paid him in sex. I have no fond memory of that man and how low I had sunk.


I think something you wrote might have been a tad unclear

See the below in bold.



> Sex isn't a problem. That i know of.... Though he may say differently. *After the affair i learned to be more aggressive and initiate.* I surprise him with morning sex and middle of the night sex. I buy sexy outfits. Role play. We actually have sex almost daily sometimes when the youngest is out we do it all day. Laying around the house naked and what not


I had the same initial IMPRESSION as Outofretirement, but I figured you meant that you took a different approach when you tried to improve sex with your husband, after the affair.


----------



## FoolishOne

faithfulman said:


> I'm not sure - actually, I am really sure - that telling him you are better in bed now because the other man taught you - is not going to help the marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who in the HELL ever said that?!!! Stop that right ****ing now. My ap couldn't have taught me a god damn thing if he had 100 extra years of experience on me let alone the few pathetic relationships he did have. My ap was NOT some Cassanova. He was not a new awakening. He was a slimeball I let hump me so I could feed on his ego kibble. I learned absolutely nothing from that man , but how to be a more awful me. He was a shoulder I cried on and like a **ore I paid him in sex. I have no fond memory of that man and how low I had sunk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think something you wrote might have been a tad unclear
> 
> See the below in bold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sex isn't a problem. That I know of.... Though he may say differently. *After the affair I learned to be more aggressive and initiate.* I surprise him with morning sex and middle of the night sex. I buy sexy outfits. Role play. We actually have sex almost daily sometimes when the youngest is out we do it all day. Laying around the house naked and what not
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I had the same initial IMPRESSION as Outofretirement, but I figured you meant that you took a different approach when you tried to improve sex with your husband, after the affair.
Click to expand...

I could see how that is misleading, but I could also see people jumping to the maximum awful version before even asking for clarification. It is a bit of a jump to say what I typed meant THAT. But I can see why others would think the worse of me, minus clarification. I don't blame anyone really. I understand why this happens. I jump on here and say HERE look at how awful I am and then get offended that people would think I could sink lower. Can I sink lower?


----------



## faithfulman

FoolishOne said:


> I could see how that is misleading, but I could also see people jumping to the maximum awful version before even asking for clarification. It is a bit of a jump to say what I typed meant THAT. But I can see why others would think the worse of me, minus clarification. I don't blame anyone really. I understand why this happens. I jump on here and say HERE look at how awful I am and then get offended that people would think I could sink lower. Can I sink lower?


Or course you could sink lower. 

But please don't. You want to do right. Higher. 

Now do right. Higher still. 

Make it a practice to do right, and be honest with yourself when you do wrong. Bang! You'll be better than most.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Foolish what you wrote in your post you need to write to him...tell him in words and in person.


----------



## [email protected]

What a mess! I don't think anything can be salvaged here. I looks like this marriage is doomed, sorry to say.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

That is horrible that both of you cheated. 

No one is off the hook for this bad behavior but deal with the here and now. 

You need to come clean to hubby. 

He needs to figure out if he is cutting off this affair or not. 

Who is she? Is it a hooker? 

Are you sure he hasn't been cheating on YOU all along?

STD test.

Figure out what you want to do.


----------



## FoolishOne

Lostinthought61 said:


> Foolish what you wrote in your post you need to write to him...tell him in words and in person.


It's all words. When I tell him he won't judge me on my words. He will judge me on my actions. I know what's probably coming. Fear of that is what drove me. 

I have realized that my marriage is a sham and the truth is basically the only viable option left. What is there to lose? It's still cowardice and he will see it. I know. I can't change it.

I can wax poetic for hours about my love for him and every word of it would be true, but he WILL look at my actions and judge me. I won't blame him. I don't expect him to believe pretty words. Not after what I've done.

The part of me that thought she could work bull**** magic and lie away the problem has left the building. The only way through this is literally through this. Not around it.

I want him to know that isn't me anymore. But I can't prove that. Even my attempt to be "better" was overshadowed by deceit and cowardice. 

I really wish I took love seriously. I wish early on I read books and informed myself. I wish I learned more about empathy, respect, boundaries. Even just basic ****ing logic.

I was always pampered growing up. I went from being the darling princess daddies girl. To being taken care of by my boyfriends, and finally my husband. 

I never had to leave my comfort zone. 

That's no excuse and still speaks to a deficiency in my moral character I know.

It's sad how pathetic I was. How little I was actually capable of accomplishing by myself. How little I had learned about the world.

I'm still trying to be better every day. The last three years have changed me. Boards like these changed me. My mentor (my older friend) changed me. (Female by the way.)

I obviously didn't listen completely. I picked and chose what suited me and here I am. 

The change is real. It's just mired in **** because I didn't do it properly. My fear and cowardice and pathetic need to control the outcome drove me to this point. 

I have put my husband and children in awful positions. 

I don't know what to expect at this point, but I am going to tell him everything.

He may leave. Now or in two years. I just hope whatever happens our children are ok and that he doesn't feel like he has to fake anything with me. I don't want a fake marriage anymore. I know its hypocritical of me to ask that of him, but I am going to ask anyway.

I also hope I can answer any questions he has that might plague him. I want him to know I don't blame him for anything. I want him to know how sorry I am for wasting years of his life.

If he is willing to give me a few years, months, days. I will do everything in my power to be the wife he deserves. I don't deserve that right. I know that a marriage reconciled will probably be a happier place for me than for him. 

I have seen the threads where internet poles are taken and people comment that the WW usually think reconciliation made the marriage stronger than ever. While their husbands think its meh at best and torture at worst. I know the newer reality of our relationship will never amount to the shattered dream I broke. Does it have to be bad though?

I want him to be happy. If being away from me is what makes him happy then I can't and won't stop him.

I can only ask. And pray. 

I have received a lot of help already. My plan is set for this weekend. Not next weekend. I can only assume god helping or nudging me as my youngest has planned a slumber party and asked me about an hour ago for permission. Saturday. That's the day.

I'm scared. I know the general direction it will go, but I'm left wondering what flavor the end of my world will come in. Reality is a bi***.


----------



## EleGirl

@FoolishOne

I asked you earlier but I don't think you answered... do you know who the other woman is?

How long has your husband known her?

Do they work together?


----------



## FoolishOne

I'm going to write out my thoughts and read them to him. Should I post them here or should I keep them between me and him. Part of me wants the words and message I send to be just for me and him. I don't want help formulating a speech. That feels unauthentic.


----------



## TAMAT

Foolishone,

And what happened to the OM was he exposed or confronted by your H, forced to move?

At the very least was the OMW told, and his kids?

There is an unfairness may BH feel in that all the cost falls on them and none on the OM.

Tamat


----------



## PigglyWiggly

FoolishOne said:


> I'm going to write out my thoughts and read them to him. Should I post them here or should I keep them between me and him. Part of me wants the words and message I send to be just for me and him. I don't want help formulating a speech. That feels unauthentic.


Just between you and him. No need to get berated some more and change your language. Your husband knows and understands the meaning of the words you speak.


----------



## farsidejunky

OP, focus on the process and not the outcome.

I know that sounds counterintuitive, but hear me out.

If you focus right now on living an authentic life from here forward, and every decision you make is made through the prism of authenticity, the people who are supposed to be in your life will remain in your life, while those who are not will slowly be left behind. 

At this point, it is hard to say which camp your husband will fall into. As hard as that may be to accept, what he chooses to do is beyond your control. All you can do is set the right conditions. Then he has to choose.

Start right this minute being the authentic person that you wish yourself to be. That is the process by which people will either remain in your life, or leave it.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## FoolishOne

EleGirl said:


> @FoolishOne
> 
> I asked you earlier but I don't think you answered... do you know who the other woman is?
> 
> How long has your husband known her?
> 
> Do they work together?


Im sorry for not answering. No I don't know who exactly she is. I only got two days of texts which where all sexual innuendo and i wants you miss you type stuff. No names or addresses. Even the quality of the video wasn't the best. Light was somewhat dark. No ring on her finger.

I'll be honest. I don't really care who she is. If she is married that's sad, but until after this weekend its not a priority. Maybe even longer than that. I don't want a psycho crashing through my front door trying to kill my husband.


----------



## personofinterest

farsidejunky said:


> OP, focus on the process and not the outcome.
> 
> I know that sounds counterintuitive, but hear me out.
> 
> If you focus right now on living an authentic life from here forward, and every decision you make is made through the prism of authenticity, the people who are supposed to be in your life will remain in your life, while those who are not will slowly be left behind.
> 
> At this point, it is hard to say which camp your husband will fall into. As hard as that may be to accept, what he chooses to do is beyond your control. All you can do is set the right conditions. Then he has to choose.
> 
> Start right this minute being the authentic person that you wish yourself to be. That is the process by which people will either remain in your life, or leave it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


This and Piggly Wigglys last post are excellent.


----------



## FoolishOne

I honestly didn't think of that. No. My husband never got to know who it was with. After I went NC he just sort of drifted out of our social circle. I'm assuming looking for new pastures. He wasn't married. He was a bottom feeder type. I can only assume most women saw him for the creep he was like i eventually did. Too damn late of course.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> What would my husband say?
> 
> I'm honestly afraid to know. I know it probably wouldn't be pretty. I hope the first decade and the last 2 years were enough to convince him I'm not evil, but I can't be sure....


I think this is all good, but if you notice I asked you what your husband would say and you said all stuff about you. Still too much you. Let me make it easier for you. Answer my questions here.

What do you think your husband's hopes and dreams when he married you?

What do you think he wanted in his wife?

What did he wanted in his family?

Do you think he thought you loved him?

Why do you think he worked so hard?

What do you think you affair said to him about the work he put into his family?

What do you think he thinks YOU feel about him?

Why do you think he feels this way?

What do you think he was thinking when he caught you cheating?

At that point what do you think he was thinking about the work he put into his marriage?

After he caught you do you think he thinks you love him?

If he knows you continued your affair do you think he thinks you love him?

Do you think his thinking is unreasonable?

What do you think he thinks today when he thinks about his marriage and all the personal investment he put into it?

What do you think his hopes and dreams are now?


Start with those questions, really think about them. You need to say more then I am no longer like this you need to say I get your pain. I know you feel like this so I am never going to do this again.


----------



## TDSC60

Correct me if I am wrong.

You never admitted to your husband the identity of the OM.

You never admitted that it was a physical/sexual affair.

You secretly kept the physical affair going even after your husband found the "I love you" emails.

I think your husband suspects, or found out, that it was a sexual affair. He kept after you to admit the truth and you would not even admit who the OM was. Your husband gave up on you and started looking after himself and the kids. In his mind you had lied, disrespected him and the marriage, and did not love nor appreciate him while he was giving his all for his family. When a young female showed interest in him, 18 months later, unfortunately he followed the path you had blazed. 

For some men, when they find out that their wife has told another man that they love him, it is unbearable. When you refused to identify the OM, you clearly showed your husband that you cared more about protecting the OM than you did your husband or your family. That is a hard blow to take for a proud man.

This is his exit affair. I never condone cheating in any situation, but I am afraid your fears are correct. He is waiting for the empty nest, before making it official.


----------



## TDSC60

PigglyWiggly said:


> Just between you and him. No need to get berated some more and change your language. Your husband knows and understands the meaning of the words you speak.


I agree. If you use any phrases suggested here, he will probably recognize that it did not come from you.

Keep it real - and honest.

Be prepared to answer all his questions with out breaking down. It will be an effort.


----------



## OutofRetirement

FoolishOne said:


> Who in the HELL ever said that?!!! Stop that right ****ing now. My ap couldn't have taught me a god damn thing if he had 100 extra years of experience on me let alone the few pathetic relationships he did have. My ap was NOT some Cassanova. He was not a new awakening. He was a slimeball I let hump me so I could feed on his ego kibble. I learned absolutely nothing from that man, but how to be a more awful me. He was a shoulder I cried on and like a **ore I paid him in sex. I have no fond memory of that man and how low I had sunk.
> 
> It was AFTER my affair that I began taking on our sex life from a different perspective... Mostly because he wouldn't initiate. But also because in a ****ed up part of my head I believed he deserved it. I enjoyed it. What was to lose? When he showed appreciation for me initiating or showing aggression and lust it filled me with glee.


Before the affair you were not aggressive sexually, after the affair you were. You lied a lot. You still do, by omission, every day. You still haven't told the truth. What is your husband thinking for the cause of your changes? The affair caused your changes. So your husband has your other man to thank for the good sex now. Do you think your husband doesn't know that? Do you think he thinks it's just a coincidence?


----------



## sokillme

OutofRetirement said:


> Before the affair you were not aggressive sexually, after the affair you were. You lied a lot. You still do, by omission, every day. You still haven't told the truth. What is your husband thinking for the cause of your changes? The affair caused your changes. So your husband has your other man to thank for the good sex now. Do you think your husband doesn't know that? Do you think he thinks it's just a coincidence?


This makes some sense. Even if what OP says and it was a choice by her, from his perspective she had an affair and opened up sexual to him. I am sure in his mind there is some feeling that this guy was able to do that for her and this is a byproduct of the affair. Once again a place where the lies hurt you. If you don't tell him the truth he is going to assume the worst.


----------



## NorseViking

To the OP, thanks for your story.

I like to believe it is all about knowledge then it comes to infidelity.
Who wants to do this when they know how bad it can be?
People these days are so naive about infidelity and then they screw up.
I have read so many stories so far and I have learned a lot.

Just be honest with him, tell him the truth.
Lies makes it even worse.
And yes. He is most likely done with you.
I would be.
You destroyed his ego, self respect, self confidence, self worth
by giving yourself and your body to another man.
That's worse for a man.
It like he did not matter, that he did not mean anything to you, 
he could not give you what you wanted, feel your needs.
You are now dirty or damaged goods for him.
I would feel it like that.

_DO NOT_ say it was just sex or what it did not mean anything to you.
That means your hubby did not mean anything to you either.

I would give him a fair divorce, 50/50 at least.
No spousal or child support.
Let him keep his business.

After the divorce you should go to IC and fix yourself before dating again.
And he should too.
After the divorce you can always to try date each other again (or not).
42 is not too old.
Do not hide your cheating for any new man.
Tell them the truth even if it makes them run away.


----------



## sokillme

NorseViking said:


> To the OP, thanks for your story.
> 
> I like to believe it is all about knowledge then it comes to infidelity.
> Who wants to do this when they know how bad it can be?


But in this case he caught her, she saw that his heart was broken and she did it again still. So she had a front row view of his pain and how bad it could be.


----------



## sokillme

NorseViking said:


> You destroyed his ego, self respect, self confidence, self worth.


Sadly this is true for a lot of folks who are cheated on. But there is no reason for it. The only one who is a loser in this situation is the cheater. If you are a BS hold your head up high and walk away like John Wayne is what I say. Just know you deserve and need to find better.


----------



## EleGirl

FoolishOne said:


> Im sorry for not answering. No I don't know who exactly she is. I only got two days of texts which where all sexual innuendo and i wants you miss you type stuff. No names or addresses. Even the quality of the video wasn't the best. Light was somewhat dark. No ring on her finger.
> 
> I'll be honest. I don't really care who she is. If she is married that's sad, but until after this weekend its not a priority. Maybe even longer than that. I don't want a psycho crashing through my front door trying to kill my husband.


I want make it very clear that I think that your marriage is absolutely salvageable. A lot of people on this site will disagree with me, tell you that divorce is the only option here, etc etc. The fact is that about 85% of all marriages in which there is infidelity recover and go on to be good marriages. It's just that most of the people here on TAM always push for divorce and punishing the person who cheated first. And you are seeing that in the replies to you.

How do you salvage your marriage? Get the books I suggested and read them. There is a plan that you need to work and those books lay it out. "Surviving an Affair" is the first one to read. It lays out the foundation. (And no I don't make any money if you buy the books.)

One of the things that "Surviving an Affair" (SaA) lays out is that you absolutely need to know who your husband's affair partner is. You don't have to focus on her... it's actually detrimental to put a lot of energy and focus onto the affair partner. But knowing who she is and some details about her is important.

For one thing, you have no idea how long this affair has been going on. You talk about how you were self centered and selfish in the past. But you also describe a husband how basically ignored you for years. Why? What was going on with him? Yea he worked hard to build his business and support you and the children, but he was apparently also a mostly absent husband.

There is a good chance that his affair partner is someone he works with or who he met via work. After all, if that's all he does, that's the mot likely place he met her. She could be a customer, a supplier, etc. In order for your marriage to recover, the first thing that must happen is that he had to end the affair. In order for you to know if he has actually ended the affair, you have to know who she is, what her connection is to him, and other details so that you can be sure that the affair has not just gone underground.

Plus one of the best ways to ensure that an affair ends is to expose it. If she's married, expose to her husband. Nothing ends an affair faster than one's spouse finding out about it. If she's single there are others who you can expose to that could very well lead her to end the affair on a dime.

If you want to save your marriage, it's war. And you cannot fight an enemy who you have not even identified.

If you need to hire a PI to find out some details like her name, married/single, how the met, where they met for their dates, etc. 

By the way, most men will end their affair once their wife can present solid evidence that she knows exactly what he's been up to.

Keep in mind that only about 3% of affair survive once exposed. Very few ever become long-term relationships.


----------



## Wolfman1968

FoolishOne said:


> Sex isn't a problem. That i know of.... Though he may say differently. After the affair i learned to be more aggressive and initiate. I surprise him with morning sex and middle of the night sex. I buy sexy outfits. Role play. We actually have sex almost daily sometimes when the youngest is out we do it all day. Laying around the house naked and what not..
> 
> I changed the way i thought about sex. Sex was all about me before. I didn't want to initiate. Didn't want to work at it. I thought it was the man's job to seduce his wife. I thought it was beneath a woman's dignity to ask for sex. I left it all to him. That changed. I love our new sex life. We have tried new things , i have never done with anyone else. Some i love and some he loves. some we love together. I don't want to be tmi about this so i will leave it there. There is absolutely nothing im not willing to try at least once.
> *
> If i had one problem (a small one) it would be that at times he treats me like meat. He gets a cold look and becomes almost robotic and distant after sex. Im sure its mind movies or something like that. Or maybe he just gets disgusted with me from time to time.*


Well, you may have seen some instances like this during your lurking before your own posting. The Chris/White Rose threads come to mind. After White Rose had an affair in a rather emasculating way (things like her husband had to get a vasectomy, but she was willing to go on the birth control for her lover that she wouldn't do for her husband, etc.) , she tried to repair their marriage. He was willing to use her almost like as just a sex toy or prostitute (similar to your "meat" comment), while he also moved on to another woman. In a way, I saw it as almost a kind of "This is all you are good for" type of statement he was acting out. 

Could a similar dynamic be occurring in your marriage?

And is it possible he is with his "sugar baby" just as a way to hurt you? Or, if he REALLY doesn't think you are aware of it, as an act of defiance? (like spitting on someone's grave--it obviously doesn't hurt them at that point, but it may make the spitter feel better.)


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

faithfulman said:


> However, if you want to try and save it, you need to start with A FULL CONFESSION. Leave out nothing. Include all the gory details.
> 
> Then let him decide.


 I think he already has.


----------



## Robert22205

I admire your courage to hold yourself accountable and confess - and your determination to demand more from both yourself and your husband.
I wish the best for you and your husband.

I don't think you should post the narrative to your husband on this forum.

In an earlier post I suggested some topics/questions you may want to cover in your narrative.
But what you choose to say and how you say it is entirely your decision.

You and your husband have a lot to talk about. This is complicated and is not something that you can resolve over a single cup of coffee.

Your confession is just the first step in a series of conversations (over the next few days and more) regarding your behavior, his behavior - and the future of your marriage.


----------



## faithfulman

Robert22205 said:


> I admire your courage to hold yourself accountable and confess - and your determination to demand more from both yourself and your husband.


OP confessed? When?


----------



## AnnLilles

I'm sorry you are hurting.


----------



## BluesPower

FoolishOne said:


> It's all words. When I tell him he won't judge me on my words. He will judge me on my actions. I know what's probably coming. Fear of that is what drove me.
> 
> I have realized that my marriage is a sham and the truth is basically the only viable option left. What is there to lose? It's still cowardice and he will see it. I know. I can't change it.
> 
> I can wax poetic for hours about my love for him and every word of it would be true, but he WILL look at my actions and judge me. I won't blame him. I don't expect him to believe pretty words. Not after what I've done.
> 
> The part of me that thought she could work bull**** magic and lie away the problem has left the building. The only way through this is literally through this. Not around it.
> 
> I want him to know that isn't me anymore. But I can't prove that. Even my attempt to be "better" was overshadowed by deceit and cowardice.
> 
> I really wish I took love seriously. I wish early on I read books and informed myself. I wish I learned more about empathy, respect, boundaries. Even just basic ****ing logic.
> 
> I was always pampered growing up. I went from being the darling princess daddies girl. To being taken care of by my boyfriends, and finally my husband.
> 
> I never had to leave my comfort zone.
> 
> That's no excuse and still speaks to a deficiency in my moral character I know.
> 
> It's sad how pathetic I was. How little I was actually capable of accomplishing by myself. How little I had learned about the world.
> 
> I'm still trying to be better every day. The last three years have changed me. Boards like these changed me. My mentor (my older friend) changed me. (Female by the way.)
> 
> I obviously didn't listen completely. I picked and chose what suited me and here I am.
> 
> The change is real. It's just mired in **** because I didn't do it properly. My fear and cowardice and pathetic need to control the outcome drove me to this point.
> 
> I have put my husband and children in awful positions.
> 
> I don't know what to expect at this point, but I am going to tell him everything.
> 
> He may leave. Now or in two years. I just hope whatever happens our children are ok and that he doesn't feel like he has to fake anything with me. I don't want a fake marriage anymore. I know its hypocritical of me to ask that of him, but I am going to ask anyway.
> 
> I also hope I can answer any questions he has that might plague him. I want him to know I don't blame him for anything. I want him to know how sorry I am for wasting years of his life.
> 
> If he is willing to give me a few years, months, days. I will do everything in my power to be the wife he deserves. I don't deserve that right. I know that a marriage reconciled will probably be a happier place for me than for him.
> 
> I have seen the threads where internet poles are taken and people comment that the WW usually think reconciliation made the marriage stronger than ever. While their husbands think its meh at best and torture at worst. I know the newer reality of our relationship will never amount to the shattered dream I broke. Does it have to be bad though?
> 
> I want him to be happy. If being away from me is what makes him happy then I can't and won't stop him.
> 
> I can only ask. And pray.
> 
> I have received a lot of help already. My plan is set for this weekend. Not next weekend. I can only assume god helping or nudging me as my youngest has planned a slumber party and asked me about an hour ago for permission. Saturday. That's the day.
> 
> I'm scared. I know the general direction it will go, but I'm left wondering what flavor the end of my world will come in. Reality is a bi***.


So now, based on this post I think you are finally getting it. 

So now, anymore berating should stop now. 

I think you should post at least an outline of what you are going to say. I think it is important that you don't make any common mistakes that some WW's make. 

Not that you have to. 

This post show that you finally get so much more than you did previously, that is a big step. 

There is only one thing that I would caution you about. In one of your last posts, you talk about how you fell prey to the predator that was your other man. 

This is one of the last things that you have to let go of. Yes he is a predator, and you willing went along with all of it. It is not his fault that you spread your legs. You were a willing participant. 

It is important that you do not allow even a hint of this thinking into your conversation with your husband. 

He will see right through it just like he has actually seen through every thing that you have lied about. 

He may not know the details, but he knows you were lying. 

I think that if your conversation goes well, that there is the slightest chance that you may be able to save your marriage.

I say slightest, and I would never make a promise. But the way that the last post sounds, is exactly the way that you should sound to your H when you talk to him. 

That he will understand. He may file for divorce the next day and move in with his other woman, or he may stay. 

That fact that you are willing to be honest and take FULL responsibility for EVERYTHING you have done is a HUGE deal. 

I my Ex W had ever done that, then would not be penniless living in a crappy rent house right now. 

I wish you good luck and courage with everything.


----------



## personofinterest

> So now, anymore berating should stop now.


LOL Don't hold your breath.

OP, just be honest and humble and focus on your husband. I wouldn't post anything that you are going to say here. It will just be dissected and critiqued and mocked until you are a shuddering mess and terrified.

Just write it out for yourself and tell him. Then begin focusing on your actions.


----------



## TDSC60

faithfulman said:


> OP confessed? When?


Not yet. I think she said it would happen Saturday (tomorrow) while DD2 is at a sleep over.


----------



## frigginlost

I will say this FoolishOne,

As someone who was cheated on, gas lit, made to be the bad guy, blamed for everything, etc, your last post hits right on many cylinders with me.

I would listen to what you said, then take a few days to absorb it. I would not walk away from you, and would seriously start re-examining my future...

Good luck.


----------



## Thor

Foolishone, this thread is growing too quickly for me to keep up with everybody else’s responses. But I do agree with those saying you should basically tell you H what you’ve written on here. I also think younwriting it out is a good idea because he may well want to revisit it and get a clearer understanding of what you’ve told him.

I think you two will need the guidance and security of a good marriage therapist to work through all of this.

Up until my w crossed the final line, I was hoping she would come to her senses. Had she shown a genuine remorse for the things she did, and had she shown a genuine desire to fix the marriage, I was ready to make every effort to work on the marriage. I bet he has had the same thoughts. The big IF is whether things are past the point of no return for him. You can’t know that until you have the conversation with him.

As FarSideJunky said, trust the process. Don’t try to force an outcome. 

Also, your H’s affair is not the first thing to attack but don’t let it slide long at all. Frankly, your direct approach on this forum strikes me as the right one with you H. So if he agrees to MC and if he seems genuinely to desire trying to repair your marriage, his A needs to be dealt with in the same honestband open way you’ve presented your own A here to us.


----------



## TAMAT

Foolishone,

Thanks for your honest posting I appreciate when WWs post as it gives me insight into why and what my WW did.

I believe the OM is a serial cheater who had a profile of the kind of woman he goes after, he chose you because you are mostly an honest person who never dreamed of having an affair and married with children. 

He also knew that because you would be ashamed of what you did you were unlikely to confess or cause trouble for him. To further ensure secrecy he likely had you do things sexually you never did with your H. 

I'm saying that not to exonerate you but to explain how OM types work. The difference between the OM and You is that you would not have seduced some man on purpose. It's also the difference between a drug dealer and an addict. 

Tamat


----------



## colingrant

*The good -* Your chance of reconciling is unknown, but your 'confession performance' will dictate how great a chance you have. Don't blow it. Your confession should be painfully impressive to him and the harder it is for you to come forth with the painful truths, the more impressive you will come across. As I stated before, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. You had/have no marriage to lose to begin with, so you can swing for the fences here and I recommend you swing the hell out of that f'n bat. 

*The Sex:* Huge thing going in your favor here. You're giving it up and he's taking what you have to give even if it's not as emotionally intimate as you like. One way to get to a man's heart is through sex. There simply is no substitute for it. What's key here is that he's still having it with you. 

Some men are appalled at having sex withe a wife who's been with others and refused to have it. He's not at the point however where he feels he's cheating on his girlfriend so it's possible he's not too close to her. It's also possible he doesn't really care and is having sex simply because some men don't turn it down no matter what. 

*The Bad*: His girlfriend. Most men want a woman, not a girl as a wife. His girlfriend definitely has one thing going for her and that is no history of infidelity and many other things that you have stated that proved detrimental to the marriage. The fact that she has no history is hugely advantageous for her. You will have to overcome this. 
*
The Ugly* - Your affair. You have already documented it so no sense in repeating. 
*
Summary:* I think you have a chance. As a man it's easy for me to sit here and say, forget it you have no chance. You do. It's not great, but you still have a chance. This weekend will be HUGE for you. Perform like it and your chances could be increased to be much better on Monday then they are here on Friday.


----------



## Tomara

I rarely pop in on this forum but have read your whole thread. I was the one cheated on so often time this place will still trigger me. I commend you for taking ownership of what you did. Your husband also needs to take ownership of his cheating. Two wrongs have never equaled a right.

Stick to telling you husband the whole story. Without that information he cannot make an informed decision on his next move. Decide if he can heal and if he wants to make your marriage work.

I pray that you guys can heal from the awful hurts you and your husband have caused each other. Be prepared to move on from this relationship. Damage sometimes cannot be healed even if you do love him.

I think the biggest thing you might realize from this mess is you can be a better, truthful, faithful person. It may mean you have to start over by yourself. 

I never had a ‘pay me back affair’ but knowing everything my ex did made me realize I could never heal with him around. Yes, I even loved him after the truth was told. I made the choice to divorce and raise my kids on my own. Yes, when I divorced him, he divorce the children born of the marriage. He was broken and I couldn’t fix him and truly didn’t have the energy to try. I focused on my kids instead. 

I made it, can you? 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FoolishOne

TAMAT said:


> Foolishone,
> 
> Thanks for your honest posting I appreciate when WWs post as it gives me insight into why and what my WW did.
> 
> I believe the OM is a serial cheater who had a profile of the kind of woman he goes after, he chose you because you are mostly an honest person who never dreamed of having an affair and married with children.
> 
> He also knew that because you would be ashamed of what you did you were unlikely to confess or cause trouble for him. To further ensure secrecy he likely had you do things sexually you never did with your H.
> 
> I'm saying that not to exonerate you but to explain how OM types work. The difference between the OM and You is that you would not have seduced some man on purpose. It's also the difference between a drug dealer and an addict.
> 
> Tamat


I'm not a victim. I fell for his **** because I wanted to. I know it sounds like I want to place blame at my aps feet. I don't. I hate him for his decision to do what he did. Sitting in the sidelines waiting to scoop up the scraps of my husband and my relationship like a bottom feeder. 

While I truly believe my ap was and is a piece of ****, he isn't the only one. There are many people out there like him. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else. I was primed for an affair. Eventually, I probably would have sought one out all on my own without need of any guidance from an asshat ap. I was enough of a wreck to get there on my own eventually.

You don't get to get off bank robbing charges because the person who talked you into robbing was using you. You still chose to rob the bank. And honestly even without your conspirator to talk you into it your still the same person who could rob a bank. The fact that your capable of it is the problem. Not that you got a few nudges towards that outcome.

I still chose to betray my husband. I'll always hate my ap. But no more than I hate what I have done and what I had become... What I always had been.

And no I never did anything with my ap I didn't do with my husband. I and my husband had already checked off quite a few boxes on the list earlier in our marriage. When I wasnt a TOTAL *****.

My husband was always a little adventurous and earlier in our marriage I was adventurous as well. We did many things together a few of which I never did with my ap. He would usually require a lot of effort to get me to try new things, but we did.

The major difference before and after is my own effort. I almost NEVER initiated before. I don't know the exact reason, but I guess I thought of my sexuality as dirty. Like as if me asking for sex made me dirty. Or maybe it was a power play. I don't know. I still have to dig. I expected to be seduced and seducing him was "lowering myself". Well one of the things I have learned in the last 2 years is lowering yourself is an important part of marriage and comes with a ton of relationship benefits if both parties are doing it. It doesn't feel like lowering yourself if your spouse lowers themselves for you as well.

I do know that sexual shame and power plays are gone. I enjoying being sexually vulnerable. I enjoy the surprise and joy on his face when I start massaging him downstairs for no reason other than I'm bored, I think he would enjoy it and I know I will. 

I enjoy washing the dishes and finding that my husband has crept up on me and grabbed me from behind. Playing dishonest games with my body as he tells me to continue washing and keeps playing with me. 

It wasn't like that before. I wasn't sexually free. Sure I would try new things. All in the safety of my locked bedroom and with proper work up and most likely lights off. I needed to be romanced and whined and dined. I needed to feel like the center of the universe and then maybe I would reward him with something new he wanted. Forgetting the fact that sexual exploration was as much for me as for him.

No more. Sex is fun. It's not all candles and music. The rough and naughty stuff is an extension of a healthy sex life. 

I am very scared my husband will think I learned things from my ap. Those who mentioned that thank you. Even if your comments where made to hurt my feeling and deprive me of hope. You have armed me with a new viewpoint.

I didn't learn them from the ap. I read books and forum posts and asked a few of my friends to get where I am. 

It seems the topic keeps coming back to sex. It has surprised me a little even though I have seen it on other threads. It has shown me some of what to expect from my husband and also shown me I am going to have to be very careful how I say things because his mind will probably jump to the worst possible conclusion should I leave any room for ambiguity and question.

Thank you. Even those who seem harsh. You have helped me anticipate what is to come. 

I'm going to log out now and spend the rest of the night and day tomorrow with my husband. He has been happy the last few days especially and I don't want to let my mood ruin what is probably the last happy day he will have for a while. Reading my thread over and over is causing me to spiral a bit.


----------



## Dyokemm

FoolishOne,

Good for you on realizing that the full truth is the only option really left to save your very broken M at this point.

Like many others, I am not sure it will be enough......but desperate situations call for desperate measures.

Be prepared for a tidal wave of anger though.....and not just about hiding it was a PA and the TT and gaslighting afterwards.

I mean specifically about the OM.....

Hiding his identity was bad enough.....

But the fact that your H had confronted you SPECIFICALLY about this man long before it went PA.....and that you gaslit him and then went on to follow through on everything he warned you about....

Well THAT is going to be a volcano of anger and resentment...

You see....your H saw this POS for EXACTLY what he was and was trying to do.....spoke to you about his fears.....and then ‘dropped it’ as you said because of love and trust for you.....

Only to have his worst fears realized......and then to have you DEFEND this scumbag by hiding his identity (and even if you say that was not your motive to defend OM by hiding his identity, that is exactly how your H will see it)

Other posters may disagree with me.....but I always think that A’s where the WS was SPECIFICALLY warned about the AP BEFORE the A fully developed into a PA are amongst the worst situations to deal with.

Now there might be a little projection in that view as I had this exact thing happen with my exLTgf when she cheated......

And from personal experience, I can tell you it is especially enraging to deal with a WS who went ahead and blew right through a specific warning about what a slimy POS the AP was BEFORE the A really picked up.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> I'm not a victim. I fell for his **** because I wanted to. I know it sounds like I want to place blame at my aps feet. I don't. I hate him for his decision to do what he did. Sitting in the sidelines waiting to scoop up the scraps of my husband and my relationship like a bottom feeder.
> 
> While I truly believe my ap was and is a piece of ****, he isn't the only one. There are many people out there like him. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else. I was primed for an affair. Eventually, I probably would have sought one out all on my own without need of any guidance from an asshat ap. I was enough of a wreck to get there on my own eventually.
> 
> You don't get to get off bank robbing charges because the person who talked you into robbing was using you. You still chose to rob the bank. And honestly even without your conspirator to talk you into it your still the same person who could rob a bank. The fact that your capable of it is the problem. Not that you got a few nudges towards that outcome.
> 
> I still chose to betray my husband. I'll always hate my ap. But no more than I hate what I have done and what I had become... What I always had been.


I am glad you said this! I was thinking it. 

This! This right here, if I was your husband and I read this I would give you a second chance. And if you read on here, which you say you do and know my voice on here, then you know that is saying a lot. There are maybe 4 WS of all the hundreds of people of have read that I would consider R with. This post more then any other says you get it. No matter what if your marriage doesn't continue you will still have a good shot at redemption because you get it and in this post show that you do.

One more thing I hope you don't feel that any of MY posts were written to hurt you. They were not, while I really hate what you did I think with true remorse everyone deserves to be forgiven and happy again. But it's really up to the betrayed person if the marriage is dead, and sometimes there is so much evil in the marriage that it becomes a source of pain for the BS. In those cases I think it's better for the BS that it dies just to stop the pain. Thing is, your husband has now put himself in your shoes, in a way you are much closer to being on the same playing field. Frankly I think it's better if you both stay together. 

Please read my questions in my other post. Think about them, I think it will help you if he asks you why he should bother, or how it's possible to fix this. If you understand what he feels, his lost, maybe you can help him get it back, or more realistically show him you understand what he needs to start something new. I don't say that my questions are how he feels for sure but it's how I would feel.

I truly wish you good luck, but even if your husband decides it's too much, you will have taken a huge step in restoring your honor. In no longer being that person who you say you hate that you became. That's more important then if he stays with you or not, that's everything. That is going to make the rest of your life better then it would be even if you stayed in a dead marriage.


----------



## faithfulman

Foolishone has grown a lot since page 1!


----------



## jsmart

Lostinthought61 said:


> *let's be honest guys the affair the husband is having is with a sugar baby...its not going to go anywhere.* they are in lust at best not love. i think if they both come clean and open the lines of communication they have a fighting chance if they are both willing to try. from a negotiating perspective this is a level playing field.


I wouldn't necessarily think she's a "sugar baby." From what I've seen in real life of BHs that divorce, their new wife is about 10 to 13 years younger. So the AP being 29 and him 42 is not that hard to believe it's a "arrangement" thing.



OutofRetirement said:


> *Before the affair you were not aggressive sexually, after the affair you were.* You lied a lot. You still do, by omission, every day. You still haven't told the truth. *What is your husband thinking for the cause of your changes?* The affair caused your changes. So your husband has your other man to thank for the good sex now. Do you think your husband doesn't know that? *Do you think he thinks it's just a coincidence?*


I'm sure he's enjoying the new hotter sex. When he gets cold with you, he's probably triggering. Thinking about what you may have done. Since you didn't confess, he's thinking you did the worst things possible because that's what he's getting from his AP.



EleGirl said:


> *I want make it very clear that I think that your marriage is absolutely salvageable. A lot of people on this site will disagree with me, tell you that divorce is the only option here*, etc etc. The fact is that about 85% of all marriages in which there is infidelity recover and go on to be good marriages. It's just that most of the people here on TAM always push for divorce and punishing the person who cheated first. And you are seeing that in the replies to you.
> 
> By the way, *most men will end their affair once their wife can present solid evidence* that she knows exactly what he's been up to.



I agree with El. This can be salvaged. Even though he's getting sexed up with a hot young thing, she still can't offer what you can. *An intact family with the mother of his kids. No other woman on the planet can give him that.* 

I imagine that a traditional guy like your husband may love all the hot sex from his young thing but is not liking who he is when he looks in the mirror. Because even though you blasted the family apart with your affair, deep down an honorable man will want to protect his family. He can't protect the family if he's betraying his kids' mom.

Now show him with true humility. Expose everything. 
A complete timeline that includes when, where,(_I hope you didn't desecrate your house and marriage bed_) how many, and type of sex acts. (_This is important to us men_)
Stop protecting AP. Let him know who AP was.


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## oldshirt

I read the OP's first couple posts and have not read the following 10 pages.

Has the BH here at any point actually said he has forgiven her and has actually said he wants to reconcile the marriage and spend out the rest of his days with her???

I know he's having sex with her, but has HE actually committed to staying together???

In her first post she said she is afraid he is just marking time until the youngest turns 18 and goes to school.

That may actually be the case here. If it is the case, I'm not sure you can even say that he is cheating or having an "affair" in the traditional sense; more like just scoring some tail and living his own life and keeping OP around to save on divorce expenses for now and having a live-in child care person and bed warmer to keep his tank drained on the occasions his GF isn't available. 

Those of you "survivinginfidelity" and "tilldeathdouspart" people may be in for a bit of a disappointment here. 

Sure it would be nice if her standing infront of the door in the pouring rain confessing her love and devotion and confessing the rest of her affair story leads them to fight to save their marriage. I get that this would make a great afternoon Lifetime Network movie, but I see this as one of two things - 

- one is he has checked out and is moving forward with his new life and new loves and is just keeping her around to suck his #*%{ when his GF isn't around and to keep from having to pay child support when he leaves. 

- and the other is he has told her he's forgiven her and has said he wants to reconcile and live happily ever after in which case he is just as much as a garden variety lier and cheater as she is.

I don't see either of these scenarios as looking good for the home team here. 

I think this is kind of a "stick-fork-in-it" type scenario either way. 

Sure they could stay together and remain legally married; but is that necessarily a healthy and functional thing for either of them?????

I think it's good for her that she's become self-aware of the damage she's caused and is taking accountability for herself. If it helps unburden her soul and relieve some if her guilt and emotional baggage so she can go forward with a cleaner soul and psyche, that's great. 

But as far as having much beneficial effect on THIS marriage or whether this marriage is should be saved, I'm not so sure.


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## oldshirt

Let's look at things from a bit different angle. Just because the H here is a BS doesn't mean that he is all good and pure and that his intentions are all of the goodness of his heart and let's keep in mind that he may not be timid and weak BH's pining for his WW's love like we typically see here in CWI. 

Let's take a harsh look at a few things from the OP's first few posts. 

- He found some incriminating emails but instead of deluding himself that they were just friends and that nothing happened, he jumped to the logical conclusion she was screwing around on him.

- He did not beg and plead and prostrate himself for her love and devotion. 

-Did not demand details of the A or the ID of the OM and did not track down and kick OM's @$$ or demand that she send some kind of NC Order to OM.

-In fact, he did not follow up enough to even keep Foolish from continuing to screw OM after Dday. 

-She says she begged to stay but no word of him agreeing to reconcile or committing to working on the marriage or of him declaring wanting to live happily ever after. 

-Instead of chasing her around like a whipped puppy and tracking her with GPS and tapping her phone to ensure her fidelity, he detached emotionally and started doing his own things.

-Yet he taps her and busts a nut when she initiates sex, then goes back to periods of emotional disengagement again. 

- He demanded she get a job and get back in the work force and start contributing to the household.

- he hit the gym and got buff and started dressing better and going out. 

- he found himself a new, young, freaky Honey.

-He has been more relaxed and happy since the new Honey is on the scene.

- Foolish's own intuition tells her he is marking time until the youngest is a legal adult and off to college before dropping the bomb. ( how many times do we tell people to trust their gut)


So let's add this all up and see if this sounds like a pining BS desperate to keep the marriage intact and doing the "Pick Me! Dance" to fend off all interlopers and keep his wife's love and fidelity to himself forever and ever?????


Or when you add up the objective facts and intuitions, does it appear more like a dude that decided in a New York Minute that he was going to carry on with his own life and wait out the nest few years and get his SAHM back into the work force to minimize his child support and alimony and get out and start getting back into the dating market while still being able to get his tank drained at home when the opportunity presents, and then nuke the marriage from orbit once he has his next piece of tail lined up and no longer has to shell out child and spousal support?

The simplest and most logical answer is usually the most accurate.


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## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> The simplest and most logical answer is usually the most accurate.


So @FoolishOne, my advice is go ahead and confess your sins if you think it will help you sleep at night and will save on therapist bills and will help you move forward better. 

But I would urge you in the mean time to get a lawyer Monday morning and start working on a game plan to protect your own legal and financial interests. 

I think your intuition is right and that your H is marking time and using your new found sexual assertion as a sperm receptacle until his child support and spousal support burden is minimized and then you'll come home from work one day and his stuff will be gone and divorce papers will be sitting on the counter for you to sign. 

By the time you read through all the fine print of the papers, he will be moved in Anal Video Girl or some other chick. 

Your options are give it the last full court-press to do the "Pick Me! Dance" and basically prostitute yourself to try to win him back.

Or start planning your own legal and financial strategy and start working on moving your own life forward now.


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## oldshirt

Now to the other posters of TAM, yes Foolish was the WW a few years ago and it is true that she did not take every step that we all want to see taken by a WS in the moments immediately following her A. 


But we also need to realize that today she is the BS (at least in a sense)


Marriages are not saved by the BS begging prostrate on the ground in the pouring rain begging for forgiveness. 


BS's are saved by strength, uncompromising boundaries and decisive actions. This is no different. 


If Foolish is going to come out of this intact, she is going to have to pull up her big-girl pants and grow some ovaries and stand up for herself and not take any crap off of her WH and his OW. 


I do not know if this marriage can or even should be saved. But I do know if she is going to come out of this intact and if a healthy marriage even can be saved, it will be by her growing some big brass kahoonahs and not by butt-bleeding a bunch of apologist begging and pleading for forgiveness of her indescretions years ago. She already did that and this is what it got her.


Does she need to take accountability that her actions caused severe damage to the marriage? Absol-effing-lutely!! 


But does that mean she must tolerate being used as sperm receptacle and live-in maid and indentured servant while he takes years feathering his nest and working the dating market and making porn vids until its convenient for him to leave??


F THAT!!


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## oldshirt

And finally, even though Foolish cheated a few years ago and did do untold damage to the marriage, that does not mean that she is not 100% within her right to demand that he either severe all contact with the OW(s) and recommit completely to try to restore a happy, healthy and functioning marriage or file on him right here and now and fully seek whatever marital assets and properties that she is legally entitled to at this moment in time.

She may have cheated first but that does not change the fact she is being played and exploited now and she is asking for advice on what she should do now.

What she should do is the same as any other BS that finds out their WS is living a double life - 

- lawyer up and find out their legal and financial rights and responsibilities and develop a game plan to protect their legally entitled rights to marital assets, properties and custody.

- confront and expose A.

- draw a hard line in the sand on what is and what is not acceptable behavior to remain in the marriage.

- file and seek a fair and equitable divorce if contains are not being met in good faith by the WS.


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## Taxman

From where I sit, I do not think that FoolishOne will have a marriage past this weekend. What she will do is confirm everything he knew and she denied. He has checked out, and is using her as a f*ckbox. Its so nice that she initiates now, he will assume that she learned all sorts of new tricks with her AP, and now that he has a new younger prettier bedmate, he will treat her like used goods, and I am fairly certain, given the statements of her going out to work to support her spending, that he has to a certain extent, segregated finances, as well as probably having safeguarded his business. By the trickle truthing and outright lies, that he probably knew were lies, he has had ample time to safeguard himself, and probably is waiting for a confession or for the time to be right so he does not have any child support before he sticks his nail in the coffin of the marriage that she constructed.

Had she come clean, there was a chance. This is too late, and frankly not nearly what he needed from her. I can see her left in the dust with a crappy little job to go to, in a crappy little apartment, and little to show from her marriage. I have seen the results of stringing a husband along for years, until his testicular fortitude took over. He has a new life germinating in that hidden phone, make no mistake.


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## oldshirt

Taxman said:


> From where I sit, I do not think that FoolishOne will have a marriage past this weekend. What she will do is confirm everything he knew and she denied. He has checked out, and is using her as a f*ckbox. Its so nice that she initiates now, he will assume that she learned all sorts of new tricks with her AP, and now that he has a new younger prettier bedmate, he will treat her like used goods, and I am fairly certain, given the statements of her going out to work to support her spending, that he has to a certain extent, segregated finances, as well as probably having safeguarded his business. By the trickle truthing and outright lies, that he probably knew were lies, he has had ample time to safeguard himself, and probably is waiting for a confession or for the time to be right so he does not have any child support before he sticks his nail in the coffin of the marriage that she constructed.
> 
> Had she come clean, there was a chance. This is too late, and frankly not nearly what he needed from her. I can see her left in the dust with a crappy little job to go to, in a crappy little apartment, and little to show from her marriage. I have seen the results of stringing a husband along for years, until his testicular fortitude took over. He has a new life germinating in that hidden phone, make no mistake.


Yeah, I think those that think this is a salvageable situation if she prostrates herself enough and will happily ever after outcome are setting themselves, AND HER, up for a big disappointment.

I think his train left the station a long time ago and has just been using her guilt and her indentured servitude until he has all his ducks in row. 

It was well played on his part, I will give him that. 

I'm not gonna lie and say a part of doesn't kind of admire his total reversal.

But I am and always will be 100% dedicated to helping people stand up for themselves and not allow themselves to be used and exploited and that is how I see it here.


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## oldshirt

And if I'm totally honest, I can't help but think that as seemlessly as he seemed to have slipped into this role that perhaps his hands weren't completely squeaky clean before finding out about her A.

Now granted, we have only heard her descriptions, but his actions upon Dday and the days following were not what we typically see of BH's here. 

He stepped into his new life and lined his ducks up awfully well for a man who just discovered his twu wuv was cavorting with another man.

-Identifying a full-on affair from an email.

- not demanding the identity of OM and extent of the A.

- not guarding her like Loyds of London and watching her like the CIA in the days following Dday.

- playing the long game of reducing his child and spousal support for years.

- hiding a burner phone with homemade anal videos and deleted txts etc

Those are all the systematic and calculating actions of a WS.

Not the desperate and panic and blindly flailings in the dark of a BS.

This is a deeper and more dysfunctional situation than a WW trying to keep her BH in the marriage and out if another woman's clutches.


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## FoolishOne

I'm just checking in to see if there is any last minute helpful advice was posted.

I don't have time for a full post but I wanted to clarify. 

My husband reacted very much like most husbands on this site did. Anger. Questions. A desperate need for the truth. He tried the pick me dance and all of that. 

About a month of it. Then a complete turnaround. The way it happened leads me to believe he may have learned more about my affair than I knew and maybe he just gave up. It's a worry of mine.

It wasn't like he didn't want to talk about it. He cried and raged and was desperate to get into my phone and emails. I shut him up with threats of divorce and refusals to work through anything concerning my affair.

If my husband was cheating back then I would be honestly shocked beyond belief.

Also I don't plan on letting his affair go. I'm not going to react with anger, but I'm not going to share my husband. We are not in a marriage as long as there is a third party. His affair is hurtful. It is. But im choosing to handle my own sins first, and work on his after if he is willing to work with me.


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## oldshirt

FoolishOne said:


> Also I don't plan on letting his affair go. I'm not going to react with anger, but I'm not going to share my husband. We are not in a marriage as long as there is a third party. His affair is hurtful. It is. But im choosing to handle my own sins first, and work on his after if he is willing to work with me.


That is a reasonable way to look at it.

You just need to have good contingency plan in place if he says he is keeping the GF or if he says no to working on the marriage.


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## FieryHairedLady

oldshirt said:


> And if I'm totally honest, I can't help but think that as seemlessly as he seemed to have slipped into this role that perhaps his hands weren't completely squeaky clean before finding out about her A.
> 
> Now granted, we have only heard her descriptions, but his actions upon Dday and the days following were not what we typically see of BH's here.
> 
> He stepped into his new life and lined his ducks up awfully well for a man who just discovered his twu wuv was cavorting with another man.
> 
> -Identifying a full-on affair from an email.
> 
> - not demanding the identity of OM and extent of the A.
> 
> - not guarding her like Loyds of London and watching her like the CIA in the days following Dday.
> 
> - playing the long game of reducing his child and spousal support for years.
> 
> - hiding a burner phone with homemade anal videos and deleted txts etc
> 
> Those are all the systematic and calculating actions of a WS.
> 
> Not the desperate and panic and blindly flailings in the dark of a BS.
> 
> This is a deeper and more dysfunctional situation than a WW trying to keep her BH in the marriage and out if another woman's clutches.


I totally agree. 

That is what I was getting at in my post 2 days ago in this thread:

"Are you sure he hasn't been cheating on YOU all along?"


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## FieryHairedLady

FoolishOne said:


> I'm just checking in to see if there is any last minute helpful advice was posted.
> 
> I don't have time for a full post but I wanted to clarify.
> 
> My husband reacted very much like most husbands on this site did. Anger. Questions. A desperate need for the truth. He tried the pick me dance and all of that.
> 
> About a month of it. Then a complete turnaround. The way it happened leads me to believe he may have learned more about my affair than I knew and maybe he just gave up. It's a worry of mine.
> 
> It wasn't like he didn't want to talk about it. He cried and raged and was desperate to get into my phone and emails. I shut him up with threats of divorce and refusals to work through anything concerning my affair.
> 
> If my husband was cheating back then I would be honestly shocked beyond belief.
> 
> Also I don't plan on letting his affair go. I'm not going to react with anger, but I'm not going to share my husband. We are not in a marriage as long as there is a third party. His affair is hurtful. It is. But im choosing to handle my own sins first, and work on his after if he is willing to work with me.


Are you sure you don't want to have other plans in place first before you talk to him?


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## stillthinking

> BUT I never respected him until I realized he could leave.


There is a lesson in that statement for all BS.


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## x598

FoolishOne said:


> I'm just checking in to see if there is any last minute helpful advice was posted.
> 
> I don't have time for a full post but I wanted to clarify.
> 
> My husband reacted very much like most husbands on this site did. Anger. Questions. A desperate need for the truth. He tried the pick me dance and all of that.
> 
> About a month of it. Then a complete turnaround. The way it happened leads me to believe he may have learned more about my affair than I knew and maybe he just gave up. It's a worry of mine.
> 
> It wasn't like he didn't want to talk about it. He cried and raged and was desperate to get into my phone and emails. I shut him up with threats of divorce and refusals to work through anything concerning my affair.
> 
> If my husband was cheating back then I would be honestly shocked beyond belief.
> 
> Also I don't plan on letting his affair go. I'm not going to react with anger, but I'm not going to share my husband. *We are not in a marriage as long as there is a third party*. His affair is hurtful. It is. But im choosing to handle my own sins first, and work on his after if he is willing to work with me.


ummm...so was the third party yours or his?

let me tell you something.....your marriage went OUT THE WINDOW when you started your affair and brought the "third part" into your lives.

all you have now is a legal contract that will be difficult to unwind...but make no mistake...whatever he is doing now...….your vows are long gone.


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## Tomara

I wish you the best. I wish people would read whole threads. SMH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## x598

OP I have a question if you don't mind answering.

it seems you have really turned around your thinking in how you treated your husband. all the lying, hiding, disrespect and so forth. I applaud you for that and owning your behavior and treatment of him.

the question is...…...WHY? did you have some epiphany moment? did a coconut fall out of a tree and hit you on the head and break the spell you were under? or did HIS affair make you re-think a great many things?


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## TAMAT

Foolishone,

Last minute advise, yea just tell the truth especially about the sex, men are interested in the details, unlike women who want to know about the emotional connection more. Broadly speaking. Don't minimize or omit.

Tamat


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## Taxman

Foolish One, you have my best wishes for a positive outcome, but unfortunately, my experience and internal alarms are telling me that her MH is going to listen intently then drop his bomb on her. He gives every indication that he knows well what she was up to, got his ducks in a row, and is using her for sex and maid service. Once he is in a position where none of his hard earned money goes to her, he will blow the corpse of this marriage to high heaven, and there will be little left but the debris.


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## inging

You may have resolved things in your head but he only knows that you lied, continued to lie and chose this other guy over him for some time. He knows a lot more than you think.. I think you are being expelled because of your continued lies

He hardened his heart and started to disconnect with you emotionally. 

Men when they lose their wife/SO also lose the only person that they can truly be open with. He knew that you were no longer on his side so he found someone else to talk to and have sex with. 

The problem is not the sex. It is the betrayal. 
He is hurting. He wished that the woman he loved was still there, the truth is that you can not be her again. 

How can he trust you?


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## faithfulman

inging said:


> The problem is not the sex. It is the betrayal.


The sex is definitely a big part of the problem.


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## Lostinthought61

foolish, the only advice is to make sure to speak to the issues that means no name calling, no hitting below the belt if possible, stop and think before responding and really listen to each other instead of trying to get everything out...acknowledge his feelings, his anger and his trepidation in all of this


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## sokillme

So how did it go?


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## FoolishOne

About as well as can be expected.

He knew more than I thought. He hired a pi about a month after d day and about two weeks of me going to the om house nearly every other day was enough for him to decide he was done chasing me.

He has thought of our marriage as a sham marriage and assumed I have been cheating the entire time. He has learned to enjoy what he considered a new deal (open marriage) while he bides his time. He was / is planning to leave when the youngest gets into college.

I covered pretty much everything before he spoke. Most of what was covered on this thread was part of my outline. He asked a lot of questions. I answered honestly and as best I could.

He thanked me for being honest. Agreed to stop cheating for as long as he is married to me, and said my performance over the last 2 years and my coming clean now raises his opinion of my character and relieves some of the doubt and fears over the nature of my affair.

However he said he doesn't see this really changing the outcome much. He said almost all of this in a somber matter of fact way. He said that while I have done well to improve our relationship there is possibly just too much to let go. He said I destroyed the special part of our relationship. That part of it that made it one of a kind. I made him feel like a big fool. He doesn't want to be anyone fool ever again.

He left about half an hour ago to have some time to himself. He told me he has a lot to think about.

His attitude about his affair is odd. I get the impression he doesn't give a crap about her. He was almost nonchalant about breaking it off with her.

His lack of emotion scared me. He just seemed tired. I'm a little confused about what to expect. He said I was throwing too much at him at once for him to make a decision and left. He listened to everything calmly... For the most part.

I could see his tension and anger ramp up when I talked about the nature if my relationship with my ap. After we moved on to other topics he seemed to relax though.

I'm at a loss. I'm praying tonight harder than ever. I keep crying. I can't stop. I tried not crying in front of him but I was a mess. I probably looked disgusting. My nose kept running. I kept repeating myself.

I feel like I couldn't say enough and get across my thought properly. I hope he understands how much he means to me. I hope he understands how sorry I am. But most of all I hope this conversation helps him move forward to a better place in life, even if he doesn't let me go there with him. If im being honest that isn't true. I hope he comes back and decides to stay married. Im just not sure he would be happy with that. And i don't want to inflict an unhappy marriage on him. I've already done that for too long.

Im exhausted. I need to sleep. If i can. I keep waiting for him to walk through the door, even though he said he would probably be back tomorrow.

I'll go into more detail in the morning. I just can't do it right now. I want to sleep more than anything in the world right now.


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## farsidejunky

Well done. 

Everything is raw right now so you will need to allow him some time to digest what you have told him.

That said, do you have any proof he is not on his way to the AP as we speak?

ETA: Trust the process. Make every decision through the prism of authenticity and the results will take care of themselves. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower

Well you are a courageous woman, and you did the right thing. 

I for one hope he comes back to you. He has gotten even, and got his balls back, so maybe it can work out. 

But, even if it does not, you did all you could. I take my hat off to you. 

It may have taken a while, but now you get it. You are one of the few WW's that has gotten it.

I will pray for you and your H...


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## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> About as well as can be expected.
> 
> He knew more than I thought. He hired a pi about a month after d day and about two weeks of me going to the om house nearly every other day was enough for him to decide he was done chasing me.
> 
> He has thought of our marriage as a sham marriage and assumed I have been cheating the entire time. He has learned to enjoy what he considered a new deal (open marriage) while he bides his time. He was / is planning to leave when the youngest gets into college.
> 
> I covered pretty much everything before he spoke. Most of what was covered on this thread was part of my outline. He asked a lot of questions. I answered honestly and as best I could.
> 
> He thanked me for being honest. Agreed to stop cheating for as long as he is married to me, and said my performance over the last 2 years and my coming clean now raises his opinion of my character and relieves some of the doubt and fears over the nature of my affair.
> 
> However he said he doesn't see this really changing the outcome much. He said almost all of this in a somber matter of fact way. He said that while I have done well to improve our relationship there is possibly just too much to let go. He said I destroyed the special part of our relationship. That part of it that made it one of a kind. I made him feel like a big fool. He doesn't want to be anyone fool ever again.
> 
> He left about half an hour ago to have some time to himself. He told me he has a lot to think about.
> 
> His attitude about his affair is odd. I get the impression he doesn't give a crap about her. He was almost nonchalant about breaking it off with her.
> 
> His lack of emotion scared me. He just seemed tired. I'm a little confused about what to expect. He said I was throwing too much at him at once for him to make a decision and left. He listened to everything calmly... For the most part.
> 
> I could see his tension and anger ramp up when I talked about the nature if my relationship with my ap. After we moved on to other topics he seemed to relax though.
> 
> I'm at a loss. I'm praying tonight harder than ever. I keep crying. I can't stop. I tried not crying in front of him but I was a mess. I probably looked disgusting. My nose kept running. I kept repeating myself.
> 
> I feel like I couldn't say enough and get across my thought properly. I hope he understands how much he means to me. I hope he understands how sorry I am. But most of all I hope this conversation helps him move forward to a better place in life, even if he doesn't let me go there with him. If im being honest that isn't true. I hope he comes back and decides to stay married. Im just not sure he would be happy with that. And i don't want to inflict an unhappy marriage on him. I've already done that for too long.
> 
> Im exhausted. I need to sleep. If i can. I keep waiting for him to walk through the door, even though he said he would probably be back tomorrow.
> 
> I'll go into more detail in the morning. I just can't do it right now. I want to sleep more than anything in the world right now.


Sadly I think you broke his spirit. What you did was really terribly abusive, this is why some of us hate it so, it's why I often compare it to rape, it's terrible life changing, mind altering trauma. I am very sorry for him.

As for you, you did about all you can do right now. At least you have stopped lying. Your affair is finally over. This can be a foundation of a new life, but you have a lot of work yet to do. You should make sure you are in IC. Also write out a timeline for him. You should also write out the letter that you were talking about apologizing for what you did. Try to show that you get what you did to him. 

In the end as usual all that became of and affair is a bunch of very damaged people. It's like a bomb that goes off in everyone's life. It's a terrible trap, an emotional suicide bomb. 

Let this be a lesson to those who are thinking about doing it, and those who are covering it up. God help you.


----------



## NorseViking

FoolishOne said:


> About as well as can be expected.
> 
> He knew more than I thought.
> He hired a pi about a month after d day and about two weeks of me
> going to the om house nearly every other day was enough
> for him to decide he was done chasing me.
> 
> He has thought of our marriage as a sham marriage
> and assumed I have been cheating the entire time.
> He has learned to enjoy what he considered a new deal (open marriage) while he bides his time.
> He was / is planning to leave when the youngest gets into college.


Yep, he sure did a number on you.
Men are not stupid!
He did what he needed to.
You cheated and is now toast.
I hope it was worth it for you.
Just set him free and let him go.
Why do you care for him now?
As a plan B? Safety net?



FoolishOne said:


> I'm at a loss. I'm praying tonight harder than ever.
> I keep crying.
> I can't stop.
> I tried not crying in front of him but I was a mess.
> I probably looked disgusting.
> My nose kept running.
> I kept repeating myself.


Yep, you have lost him and this is the reward for your cheating.



FoolishOne said:


> Im exhausted.
> I need to sleep.
> If i can.
> I keep waiting for him to walk through the door,
> even though he said he would probably be back tomorrow.
> 
> I'll go into more detail in the morning.
> I just can't do it right now.
> I want to sleep more than anything in the world right now.


Do not bleed him dry in the divorce.
Be amicable and give him his part and set him free
to find a woman who really loves him and can be faithful.

Good luck...


----------



## oldshirt

I think you've done all you can for right now and I don't know if there is anything else that can be done for now.

You've laid it all out there the best you can so now the ball is in his court.

One ray of hope I can offer is that if he did want to be with this other woman full time, he would've already left by now.

That being said though, I do think it would be very prudent of you to start seeing a divorce lawyer and start making a game plan in case he decides to bail early on his plans to leave. 

Be ready, willing and able to pull the ejection handle at any moment.


----------



## FoolishOne

I woke up about a half hour ago to find my husband sitting on the bed beside me. 

When he noticed I was awake he asked if i was ok. Apparently i was crying in my sleep. 

He comforted me. He told me my words last night changed things for him. He isn't sure how exactly. He keeps circling back to the idea of giving us a try before adding that he is doubtful still. 

He is struggling to decide still, but his comforting me confuses me. He left to get us breakfast. He should be back soon.

Im confused. He was gentle and reassuring. None committal to a future plans but open to the idea. 

We still have a lot to talk about.

He did admit a part if him still resents me. He doesn't know how he can get over what i did, but more importantly how i treated him. He said finding out i continued seeing my ap after d day might have been the shot that sank the ship.

He is going to give me the burner phone. He is actually getting that now as well. He started keeping it at his office a while back. He says he hasn't factory reset the phone so i can recover the messages.

He also asked to do the same with my current phone and my old phone as well. I obviously said ok.

Im hopeful but cautious. Im filled with joy one moment and sure it will all fall apart anyways the next.

We have a lot of talking to do. I don't think this is going to be worked out anytime soon.


----------



## Robert22205

I sent you a private message. Let me know if you are unable to access it.


----------



## BluesPower

FoolishOne said:


> I woke up about a half hour ago to find my husband sitting on the bed beside me.
> 
> When he noticed I was awake he asked if i was ok. Apparently i was crying in my sleep.
> 
> He comforted me. He told me my words last night changed things for him. He isn't sure how exactly. He keeps circling back to the idea of giving us a try before adding that he is doubtful still.
> 
> He is struggling to decide still, but his comforting me confuses me. He left to get us breakfast. He should be back soon.
> 
> Im confused. He was gentle and reassuring. None committal to a future plans but open to the idea.
> 
> We still have a lot to talk about.
> 
> He did admit a part if him still resents me. He doesn't know how he can get over what i did, but more importantly how i treated him. He said finding out i continued seeing my ap after d day might have been the shot that sank the ship.
> 
> He is going to give me the burner phone. He is actually getting that now as well. He started keeping it at his office a while back. He says he hasn't factory reset the phone so i can recover the messages.
> 
> He also asked to do the same with my current phone and my old phone as well. I obviously said ok.
> 
> Im hopeful but cautious. Im filled with joy one moment and sure it will all fall apart anyways the next.
> 
> We have a lot of talking to do. I don't think this is going to be worked out anytime soon.


Listen, the fact that you confessed is the thing that is actually giving your marriage a chance. 

Further, the fact that he is confused is a HUGE deal. The fact that he knows, and hopefully believes that you ended the affair yourself - even though it was after D-Day, is also a huge deal. That should add validity to your behavior since the affair. 

All you can do it do your best. There are no guarantees about any of it. 

But the fact that he is thinking about it is frankly a good sign. Now, you know that he went over to his AP's last night, be it a farewell screw, reevaluate her and their potential, or whatever. You need to deal with that. 

Now is not the time to deal with his affair.

But... even after your confession, you are going to, more than likely, deal with YOUR affair the way that you should have in the first place. He may have questions about your affair, he may ask why several times, he may ask about the sex, he may rage at this point, or, he may not. 

But even though you have confessed and your behavior had changed, he will never be able to trust you and he will not trust you in the future. It may change or it may not, but you need to accept that however it goes. 

But no matter what the future holds, the fact that you love him enough to let him go if he wants to, now that is actual love. I hope that you told him that, because he too will understand that you truly love him. 

Now, honestly, he may not be able to get over this, and that is how it goes. He may have trouble letting go of his AP, all of those things could happen, and you are just going to have to work through all of it. 

I am proud of you, you, at this point should be proud of yourself. It is time for you to let go of your self hatred, it is not useful now. 

Your courage, your love for your husband may be the thing that saves your marriage...

Keep posting and I for one will keep praying for you and your husband...


----------



## Thor

Foolishone, I’m not sure what to say other than I hope both of you can find peace and happiness out of all this. Open honesty is what is needed, which will lead to the correct outcome. Whatever is correct for both of you.

His reaction gives me hope, though I think it is going to take a lot of time for healing. There is no such thing as an immediate decision to stay married forever. There are only 2 options today, either leave the marriage or try to rebuild.


----------



## personofinterest

I am proud of you and him both. Give it time.

I noticed a man has private messages you.

I caution you: under NO circumstances should you engage privately with any man right now.

I'm appalled the man in question doesnt know this.


----------



## farsidejunky

Good.

TRUST...THE...PROCESS.

Authenticity works, FO.


FoolishOne said:


> I woke up about a half hour ago to find my husband sitting on the bed beside me.
> 
> When he noticed I was awake he asked if i was ok. Apparently i was crying in my sleep.
> 
> He comforted me. He told me my words last night changed things for him. He isn't sure how exactly. He keeps circling back to the idea of giving us a try before adding that he is doubtful still.
> 
> He is struggling to decide still, but his comforting me confuses me. He left to get us breakfast. He should be back soon.
> 
> Im confused. He was gentle and reassuring. None committal to a future plans but open to the idea.
> 
> We still have a lot to talk about.
> 
> He did admit a part if him still resents me. He doesn't know how he can get over what i did, but more importantly how i treated him. He said finding out i continued seeing my ap after d day might have been the shot that sank the ship.
> 
> He is going to give me the burner phone. He is actually getting that now as well. He started keeping it at his office a while back. He says he hasn't factory reset the phone so i can recover the messages.
> 
> He also asked to do the same with my current phone and my old phone as well. I obviously said ok.
> 
> Im hopeful but cautious. Im filled with joy one moment and sure it will all fall apart anyways the next.
> 
> We have a lot of talking to do. I don't think this is going to be worked out anytime soon.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## faithfulman

Foolishone, I've been checking in on your updates.

What I read last night was upsetting and saddening though in no way shocking. I decided not to reply as I was tired and unsure of how to write about it. 

Your next post provided a glimmer of hope.

This is such serious business that anonymous strangers are emotionally invested and profoundly affected. 

Now multiply that by an astronomical number and that is how affected your husband is. 

Near as I can tell, he is a very good man. A strong man. A family man. 

He is now changed. He will never be the same.

I honestly don't think you can hold him to any standard of behavior one would expect from a mate for a long while.

Anger, withdrawal, verbal abuse, derision, further dalliance outside of your marriage, separation, etc.

Any and all of these things can be triggered at the drop of a hat. 

If you want to continue with him it will be like clingng to a small vessel in a hurricane. You'll be tossed about, taken under - you may lose your grip.

You cannot control the storm.

When the storm is over you may find yourself in calm waters, you may find that you have been transported to a place you did not expect. 

You may find yourself separated from the vessel you clung to. 

Please stay the path of honesty and integrity whether or not you remain with your husband.

The rest of your life depends on it.

Good luck.


----------



## musicftw07

Hi FoolishOne.

I don't post much, but I do read threads here a lot and I've been following yours from the beginning. I'm a BH who divorced his WW. I won't go into details as they aren't pertinent to your situation, I just wanted to say how proud I am of you for finally coming clean to your husband. As a BH I'm like you, cautiously optimistic about your situation. It's by no means guaranteed he will stay, but the fact that he is willing to talk to you is a good sign.

I'd just like to repeat what others have said. Focus on the process, not the outcome. If he decides to go, lovingly let him go. If he decides to stay, understand what a precious gift that is. But most of all, I want to encourage you by saying regardless of the outcome you did the right thing this weekend. I know it must have been incredibly difficult, but you still did it. That takes courage and integrity. Well done.

I hope you two can get on the path to healing.


----------



## faithfulman

Foolishone, I do have a line of questioning.

Did you leave anything out?

Did you withhold or omit anything?

Did you mischaracterize or minimize anything?

***

If you did, and it is possible, as nobody can be perfect in the moment. Especially in such a difficult and emotionally charged moment, you're going to need to correct that.

This is about scrupulously holding yourself to a standard that shows understanding of what you have done and demonstrates a level of respect for your husband that is much greater than most people have.


----------



## personofinterest

faithfulman said:


> Foolishone, I do have a line of questioning.
> 
> Did you leave anything out?
> 
> Did you withhold or omit anything?
> 
> Did you mischaracterize or minimize anything?
> 
> ***


Her words below:

"I covered pretty much everything before he spoke. Most of what was covered on this thread was part of my outline. He asked a lot of questions. I answered honestly and as best I could.

He thanked me for being honest. "


----------



## DjDjani

Hello. Let me tell you about your husband. You treated him poorly for many years,he was trying to be a provider and a good husband and you were bad to him. But he loved you were much and he hoped that some day you will be the girl he married again. He dreamed for that to happen becouse he loved you greatly. And then you cheated on him. He was devastated. He tried to save the marriage but you continued affair and broke his heart even more. And for 2 years you didn't even tell him the truth about what happened. You didn't have even a little respect for him to tell him what happened. And you continued your affair. That is the moment when you killed him emotionally. Years passed and he is now an empty man who lives with person who destroyed his life and happiness. Your kid is only thing that kept him in the house,not you. I think that he can't ever recover from that. I think that no one can. Even if he chooses to stay married,he would never be that happy guy from the beginning of the marriage.Never. You just did too much bad things to him. He can't ever love you the way he lived you before. Be sure of that. So,if you hope that things will be like in the beginning of your marriage sometime in the future,they will never be the same.


----------



## jsmart

Good on you for having the courage to come clean. We all thought that your husband was aware that more took place. hearing it from you must have still broke him inside. It was confirmation of his worst fears. 

I'm not at all surprised that he is willing to work on the marriage. His young mistress might have a tight young body but in his head he'll think, how good can she be if she's enthusiastically willing to bang a married father who probably gives her nothing but empty words. No trust me, she doesn't mean much to him other than she helped rebuild his confidence after you emasculated him.

The reason he's willing to give the marriage a real try is because you're the mother of his kids. No other woman enables him to keep his family intact.


----------



## x598

FoolishOne said:


> I woke up about a half hour ago to find my husband sitting on the bed beside me.
> 
> When he noticed I was awake he asked if i was ok. Apparently i was crying in my sleep.
> 
> He comforted me. He told me my words last night changed things for him. He isn't sure how exactly. He keeps circling back to the idea of giving us a try before adding that he is doubtful still.
> 
> He is struggling to decide still, but his comforting me confuses me. He left to get us breakfast. He should be back soon.
> 
> Im confused. He was gentle and reassuring. None committal to a future plans but open to the idea.
> 
> We still have a lot to talk about.
> 
> He did admit a part if him still resents me. He doesn't know how he can get over what i did, but more importantly how i treated him. He said finding out i continued seeing my ap after d day might have been the shot that sank the ship.
> 
> He is going to give me the burner phone. He is actually getting that now as well. He started keeping it at his office a while back. He says he hasn't factory reset the phone so i can recover the messages.
> 
> He also asked to do the same with my current phone and my old phone as well. I obviously said ok.
> 
> Im hopeful but cautious. Im filled with joy one moment and sure it will all fall apart anyways the next.
> 
> We have a lot of talking to do. I don't think this is going to be worked out anytime soon.


of course he resents you. and probably in a much bigger way then you realize. this is only the first problem he has to potentially overcome. 

the second problem is trust. he now knows you have the capacity to look him in the eye and tell bold faced lies and then double down on them. Not something easy to get over...…

you mentioned how he seemed "casual" the way he talked about breaking up with his AP.....I am guessing its much easier to let go of someone he has only been seeing briefly (compared to a life time of memories with you and your family)………...so I am not surprised.


it struck me as odd you mentioned he didn't wipe his burner phone so you can "recover the messages". Why would you want to go down that road? never mind that was a curtesy you denied him...I just think it is completely irrelevant at this point of trying to dig into his communication with her at this point. chalk all that up to casualties of war and what happens when you treat your spouse as you did. throw the phone in the garbage and never bring it up again.


there is a chance to salvage your relationship. you just have to understand that the foundation of trust, and his admiration for you has been completely NUKED....and it will take time (YEARS) to rebuild that back. This is why reconciliation is so hard and rarely works...….most don't have the character to see it through. the choice is yours.


----------



## TDSC60

I have always suspected that your husband had found out more than you were willing to tell him. Now it all makes sense.

His discovery that you continued the affair after DDay and his discovery that it was obviously a sexual affair, put a stake through his heart and killed all trust in you. Then he concentrated on the kids and himself. He has done this for years now and has accepted his situation.

He thanked you for finally being truthful, but I am not sure how much that really means to him now after all this time. He has had years to process what he found out and decided to wait for the youngest to leave the home before he made the end of the marriage official.

You seem to be honestly remorseful and willing to do anything to save what has been trashed.

You've got until your youngest enters college to change his mind. Now that all secrets are out in the open, this is the time for a good marriage counselor. Good luck.


----------



## OutofRetirement

It took years for you to come to the conclusions about what the affair was about, what the other man was about, why you did it, and what are the mistakes you've made. It very likely will take him years, too, to come to a conclusion. He will vacillate one way or the other as he assimilates the new supposed "facts" to his assumptions and presumptions, and with the true facts that he really knows with evidence. He will come back with what is conflicting in your story vs. what he knows and what he thought.

His affair was never emotional like yours, his affair was all about feeling like a man again after being so badly emasculated when you chose your other man over him for who knows how long, and even after you were found out and said you ended it. One doesn't overcome that easily, or quickly. He will see it at every aspect and every viewpoint, and it will get deeper as to the essence of you and what you are all about. It may become an issue that the affair and other man are part of your story of marriage success, if he starts to feel that way.

One other thing, your incorrect assumption that your marriage was terrific until you found out he was cheating, while he thought it was a sham marriage, is something you should consider quite a bit. Your actions and words during that period of this happy marriage, all you did for him, did not change his mind. He still thought it was a sham. That's because there was no sacrifice to benefit him and him alone. All sacrifices you made were for the both of you, and you benefitted. What can you do to sacrifice for yourself, that will benefit him, but not you? Mutually beneficial actions are what's marriage is about, but not meaningful when one has proven in word and deed that they wanted out of the marriage. Which despite any words, your actions showed that. His affair never did show that, he never wanted that, but he went there because it was in his broken point of view, it was the best choice of all bad options. His affair was in a way a life saver to keep him from drowning in the lies of everything he thought was true in his life and his wife and him as a man.

Men are women are physically different and in many ways emotionally, too, and you should be old enough and with your husband long enough to know that in general, and how specifically your husband conforms or differs from those generalities.

What is needed from you is to be consistent in words and deed, and never desperate. Although the crying is very effective I believe, as long as you were not much of a crier before, and you don't over-do it too much now. But in general desperation does not work, giving a public face of you're in it until the end, wherever he goes up the rollercoaster or down, will be much more convincing to him.

Your marriage is an unknown. That is the truth. You will find out over the next months and years what your marriage is. Right now there are a lot of holes in the boat, and you are patching, and trying to get him to patch some of them too. After all the holes are patched, then you will both look around and see if all the patching was worth it or if you should just scrap that old boat.

What you can do is be consistent in word and action


----------



## BluesPower

So several make a point that he thanked her for the confession. 

And some seem to be saying that it is not a big deal. 

Guys and girls, I am here to tell you that it is. It is a huge deal that she confessed and that she filled in the blanks. 

Him thanking her, and I am sure that she said that she was sorry many times, but the fact that she confessed cannot be underestimated. 

Now, it may or may not save the marriage, but it is a great first step. He was def on his way out before, but now he is thinking about the possibility of staying. 

THAT is a big deal, just the fact that he is thinking about it, gives them a chance...


----------



## oldshirt

The fact that he did not drop the bomb or call in an airstrike is a significant point. 

My suggestion at this point is to find a good marriage counselor first thing tomorrow and delve headfirst into to some serious and intensive MC.

This is a very serious issue that goes back several years and is many many layers deep. 

This is way beyond the real of what untrained strangers on the internet can help and it is not something that you two will be able to work out yourselves. This has been going on several years and your way of dealing with your initial was to continue to rug sweep and gaslight and his way of dealing with it was make plans to leave when your youngest turns legal and to make porn videos with other chicks. 

Both of you have handled this all very poorly and dysfunctionally in regards to rebuilding your marriage so this is going to require serious professional assistance and guidance going forward if you are to stand a chance at any semblance of a healthy and happy marriage.


----------



## x598

BluesPower said:


> So several make a point that he thanked her for the confession.
> 
> And some seem to be saying that it is not a big deal.
> 
> Guys and girls, I am here to tell you that it is. It is a huge deal that she confessed and that she filled in the blanks.
> 
> Him thanking her, and I am sure that she said that she was sorry many times, but the fact that she confessed cannot be underestimated.
> 
> Now, it may or may not save the marriage, but it is a great first step. He was def on his way out before, but now he is thinking about the possibility of staying.
> 
> THAT is a big deal, just the fact that he is thinking about it, gives them a chance...


 I agree that comping clean IS a huge deal. its my belief waywards think that it will do MORE damage if the betrayed knows the truth and extent of how deep the rabbit hole went, OR that they lack the character to admit it and are only thinking of the uncomfortable situation it puts themselves in.....back to the character fla


----------



## BluesPower

oldshirt said:


> The fact that he did not drop the bomb or call in an airstrike is a significant point.
> 
> My suggestion at this point is to find a good marriage counselor first thing tomorrow and delve headfirst into to some serious and intensive MC.
> 
> This is a very serious issue that goes back several years and is many many layers deep.
> 
> This is way beyond the real of what untrained strangers on the internet can help and it is not something that you two will be able to work out yourselves. This has been going on several years and your way of dealing with your initial was to continue to rug sweep and gaslight and his way of dealing with it was make plans to leave when your youngest turns legal and to make porn videos with other chicks.
> 
> Both of you have handled this all very poorly and dysfunctionally in regards to rebuilding your marriage so this is going to require serious professional assistance and guidance going forward if you are to stand a chance at any semblance of a healthy and happy marriage.


As one of the untrained strangers on the internet, experienced in real life, but untrained, I disagree. 

Most, all most all, MC's are just horrible when dealing with infidelity. They all have some ignorant "book they all read from in school" that tells them to just move on from the infidelity. 

Now IF, IF, IF, you actually found someone that could deal with infidelity I am not saying that it would hurt, but in this case I am not sure it would be helpful. 

What these too need is time and communication about everything. 

For example, a lot of people will say that his infidelity is actually a big deal, it is not. It is simply him getting his balls back, that is all. He does not really care about this woman. 

I am not saying that he will not miss her and most of all miss screwing her and his wife. But I doubt that he has any really deep feelings for him. 

So, his affair is not a huge deal now. But he is likely to want to talk about her affair a lot, as he actually processes all of this. He will ask a lot of questions over and over, and OP will get tired of it. 

But that is what she has to deal with, that is part of dealing with her affair like they should have dealt with it in the first place. 

They need to talk, not MC right now...


----------



## oldshirt

BluesPower said:


> As one of the untrained strangers on the internet, experienced in real life, but untrained, I disagree.
> 
> Most, all most all, MC's are just horrible when dealing with infidelity. They all have some ignorant "book they all read from in school" that tells them to just move on from the infidelity.
> 
> Now IF, IF, IF, you actually found someone that could deal with infidelity I am not saying that it would hurt, but in this case I am not sure it would be helpful.
> 
> What these too need is time and communication about everything.
> 
> For example, a lot of people will say that his infidelity is actually a big deal, it is not. It is simply him getting his balls back, that is all. He does not really care about this woman.
> 
> I am not saying that he will not miss her and most of all miss screwing her and his wife. But I doubt that he has any really deep feelings for him.
> 
> So, his affair is not a huge deal now. But he is likely to want to talk about her affair a lot, as he actually processes all of this. He will ask a lot of questions over and over, and OP will get tired of it.
> 
> But that is what she has to deal with, that is part of dealing with her affair like they should have dealt with it in the first place.
> 
> They need to talk, not MC right now...


I see their mutual affairs as a big, rapid-growing cancer on the marriage and them trying to work it out themselves is like trying to treat brain cancer with folk remedies and a homemade poultice.

Now, I will concede that many MCs are quacks and charlatans and many fall down when it comes to dealing affectively with infidelity (at least in protecting the interests of the BS)

But both Foolish and Mr Foolish have showed very inept and poor coping mechanisms and very poor communication and a general lack of respect and ability to deal with their issues affectively. 

IMHO both of them are completely unable to deal with this effectively and incapable fixing a trainwreck of this magnitude without professional intervention and guidance.


----------



## FoolishOne

DjDjani said:


> Hello. Let me tell you about your husband. You treated him poorly for many years,he was trying to be a provider and a good husband and you were bad to him. But he loved you were much and he hoped that someday you will be the girl he married again. He dreamed for that to happen because he loved you greatly. And then you cheated on him. He was devastated. He tried to save the marriage but you continued affair and broke his heart even more. And for 2 years you didn't even tell him the truth about what happened. You didn't have even a little respect for him to tell him what happened. And you continued your affair. That is the moment when you killed him emotionally. Years passed and he is now an empty man who lives with person who destroyed his life and happiness. Your kid is only thing that kept him in the house,not you. I think that he can't ever recover from that. I think that no one can. Even if he chooses to stay married,he would never be that happy guy from the beginning of the marriage.Never. You just did too much bad things to him. He can't ever love you the way he lived you before. Be sure of that. So,if you hope that things will be like in the beginning of your marriage sometime in the future,they will never be the same.


I am under no illusion that it will be the same. Even if it could I wouldn't want it. The same would be me using him like a tool. Happy when the tool works well, but pissed and ready to throw it away should it have any issue doing EXACTLY as I wanted. I don't want that. 

He will never forget what I have done. Neither will I. 

I don't know if his love is dead. He doesn't seem to know. He told me he still cares about me. Is still attracted to me. The changes I have made have improved his feeling for me a lot, BUT it's not the same for him and he doubts he could ever love me with such intensity again.

We have been talking all day. We just took another break to unwind and organize our thoughts. This is exhuasting. Worth it though. I'm learning new things about him. He is being very open and I'm doing so as well. Even if we don't stay together we should be able to part without hate and anger. 

Even if my dream isn't fulfilled these talks will help us in other ways.


----------



## oldshirt

FoolishOne said:


> Even if we don't stay together we should be able to part without hate and anger.
> 
> Even if my dream isn't fulfilled these talks will help us in other ways.


This is a very important point to keep in mind.

Your marriage may not survive, but if you two can come to mutual understandings and agreements and able to move forward without chaos and drama and chronic resentments and bitterness, you will both be able to move on to the next phases of your life without baggage and have peace of mind and be able to sleep at night. 

And assuming you both ultimately move on to other relationships, you will carry less baggage and poison with each of your new relationships. 

Don't underestimate the value of being able to understand, respect and have compassion for each other even if you do not ultimately end up riding off into the sunset together.


----------



## sokillme

You showed him humility and he showed you grace. He loves you still, which means your well being is more important to him, it's about what he can do for you not what you do for him. Learn this, love like this and I think you can make it. 

Don't discount his affair like it is over. You need to be aware as sometimes it's hard to stop these things cold turkey. Yes you are even but it needs to end if you are both serious about starting over. Also don't assume that you won't have feelings about this later. Right now other things are more intense but that doesn't mean that one day you won't suffer. If you stay together both infidelities will probably be a part of both your lives for the rest of them. You should both get IC.

Also just because you are truly remorseful doesn't mean you have the tools needed to deal with some of your emotions. You need to learn now coping methods. After terrible trauma you may be on your best behavure and you may truly want to stay that way, but it's hard to change life long patterns on a dime. So you need to really work on reshaping your behavior. That means hard work. 

Good luck.


----------



## Lostinthought61

foolish you took a huge step in the best direction, the future has not been written yet, you guys have a chance to be the best version of yourself to each other...best scenario you both build a stronger marriage (fingers crossed) worse case you become the best divorce parents friends. when you have time read your "brain on love". i am rooting for you


----------



## personofinterest

DjDjani said:


> Hello. Let me tell you about your husband. You treated him poorly for many years,he was trying to be a provider and a good husband and you were bad to him. But he loved you were much and he hoped that some day you will be the girl he married again. He dreamed for that to happen becouse he loved you greatly. And then you cheated on him. He was devastated. He tried to save the marriage but you continued affair and broke his heart even more. And for 2 years you didn't even tell him the truth about what happened. You didn't have even a little respect for him to tell him what happened. And you continued your affair. That is the moment when you killed him emotionally. Years passed and he is now an empty man who lives with person who destroyed his life and happiness. Your kid is only thing that kept him in the house,not you. I think that he can't ever recover from that. I think that no one can. Even if he chooses to stay married,he would never be that happy guy from the beginning of the marriage.Never. You just did too much bad things to him. He can't ever love you the way he lived you before. Be sure of that. So,if you hope that things will be like in the beginning of your marriage sometime in the future,they will never be the same.


 If you had read her entire thread instead of stopping by for the 1st time in who knows how long just to make sure you could throw a few punches, you would know that she already realizes all of the above.


----------



## BluesPower

oldshirt said:


> I see their mutual affairs as a big, rapid-growing cancer on the marriage and them trying to work it out themselves is like trying to treat brain cancer with folk remedies and a homemade poultice.
> 
> Now, I will concede that many MCs are quacks and charlatans and many fall down when it comes to dealing affectively with infidelity (at least in protecting the interests of the BS)
> 
> But both Foolish and Mr Foolish have showed very inept and poor coping mechanisms and very poor communication and a general lack of respect and ability to deal with their issues affectively.
> 
> IMHO both of them are completely unable to deal with this effectively and incapable fixing a trainwreck of this magnitude without professional intervention and guidance.


I am not saying that you are wrong, because you may very well be right. 

And, I am not saying that if they actually found a good counselor that it could really help. 

However, for me, I see her as understanding her mistakes and her entitlement and how that led to her infidelity. 

Now, as she did not before, she has to understand how to deal with her side of the recovery. For example, they both need to read "helping your spouse heal from your affair". 

As for him, I am not excusing his affair, but on the other had I see that as him getting his balls back and nothing more. Now, none of us know for sure, and I could be wrong. But to me, I just don't see it as something really serious at all. 

So, I guess that if they found a good counselor to help them through the mind field of all of this, it could be helpful. 

It is just so hard to find one that is not a moron about this stuff. Most of them are...


----------



## Tomara

personofinterest said:


> If you had read her entire thread instead of stopping by for the 1st time in who knows how long just to make sure you could throw a few punches, you would know that she already realizes all of the above.




Exactly 
This is what I said previously. I don’t feel you should comment unless you read the full thread. I never supported cheating. But, in this case I feel a bit differently toward the OP.

I want is right and best for Foolish and her husband. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FoolishOne

NorseViking said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> About as well as can be expected.
> 
> He knew more than I thought.
> He hired a pi about a month after d day and about two weeks of me
> going to the om house nearly every other day was enough
> for him to decide he was done chasing me.
> 
> He has thought of our marriage as a sham marriage and assumed I have been cheating the entire time.
> He has learned to enjoy what he considered a new deal (open marriage) while he bides his time.
> He was/is planning to leave when the youngest gets into college.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, he sure did a number on you.
> Men are not stupid!
> He did what he needed to.
> You cheated and is now toast.
> I hope it was worth it for you.
> Just set him free and let him go.
> Why do you care for him now?
> As a plan B? Safety net?
> 
> [
Click to expand...

My husband wasn't plan b. My ap was. I almost bailed on plan a. I DID bail on plan a. Then bailed out on plan b when i realized plan b didnt really exist as i thought. Thank god I did. Even a sham marriage with my husband is 100 times better than going with my ap would have been. A real marriage with my husband would be 10000 times better than that.

I understand its pathetic to leave the marriage and come back hoping the person who I threw away could still love me for the rest of my life. It's a lot to ask someone.

If it's too much to ask then that's what it is. I will have learned the best lesson I have ever learned at the highest price I have ever paid. I will have no one to blame but myself. 

If I had been the woman he deserves from the beginning I wouldn't be here. But I wasn't. I was a step down from being a sociopath with major issues with narcissism and entitled beyond belief.


----------



## GusPolinski

FoolishOne said:


> My husband wasn't plan b. My ap was. I almost bailed on plan a. I DID bail on plan a. Then bailed out on plan b when i realized plan b didnt really exist as i thought. Thank god I did. Even a sham marriage with my husband is 100 times better than going with my ap would have been. A real marriage with my husband would be 10000 times better than that.
> 
> I understand its pathetic to leave the marriage and come back hoping the person who I threw away could still love me for the rest of my life. It's a lot to ask someone.
> 
> If it's too much to ask then that's what it is. I will have learned the best lesson I have ever learned at the highest price I have ever paid. I will have no one to blame but myself.
> 
> If I had been the woman he deserves from the beginning I wouldn't be here. But I wasn't. I was a step down from being a sociopath with major issues with narcissism and entitled beyond belief.


Love is easy.

It's commitment, trust, and respect that aren't, and once lost, they never come back in full measure.

What the both of you will have to decide is whether or not the 95-99% will be enough.

Fortunately, it's honesty that provides the fuel for all of it, so keep it flowing.


----------



## FoolishOne

personofinterest said:


> I am proud of you and him both. Give it time.
> 
> I noticed a man has private messages you.
> 
> I caution you: under NO circumstances should you engage privately with any man right now.
> 
> I'm appalled the man in question doesn't know this.


The man in question shared some of his thoughts and story and gave a few tips to help understand my husbands position better. He didn't seem to intend any contact further than that.

I already know any contact with men especially secretly would be very bad. I have no intentions of having friends of the male sex. I learned that lesson once. A friend is just a step from a lover in some cases. I have shown myself unable to handle male friendships. So no more. It's not really a loss. I cut male friends out of my life completely about a year and a half ago. Read about boundaries and male friendships on a site called surv***** infid*****. ( don't know the rules about referrals links and what not here... Should look into that.)

That was one of many things I have changed in my lackluster attempt at reconciliation. A good change, but minus the truth a paltry one.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> I was a step down from being a sociopath with major issues with narcissism and entitled beyond belief.


I'm curious why you think you were this way and why you think you will not be this way going forward? It's very rare that someone can be like this and change. I get that now you want to change but it's so rare. How mush of this is just the fear of losing your home and the life you have? Maybe you are not those things and you are just using the terms.


----------



## FoolishOne

What i meant was him finding out back then. Not now. My husband didn't blow up now. He actually wasn't all that surprised by the contents of my confession. He told me it was not that radicly different from what he thought. Though he did believe my ap wasn't the only one. If im honest with myself he might still think there where other. Though I hope not. I told the truth the whole truth.

Though he is still struggling with the idea that i chose my ap for emotional reasons and not sexual ones. He doesn't understand. He says if i had sex with my ap over him its hard for him to believe i didnt like it more than with him.

Im hoping the recover of my old phone goes well. There are a lot of messages back and forth. It should show him what our relationship was like.


----------



## aine

DjDjani said:


> Hello. Let me tell you about your husband. You treated him poorly for many years,he was trying to be a provider and a good husband and you were bad to him. But he loved you were much and he hoped that some day you will be the girl he married again. He dreamed for that to happen becouse he loved you greatly. And then you cheated on him. He was devastated. He tried to save the marriage but you continued affair and broke his heart even more. And for 2 years you didn't even tell him the truth about what happened. You didn't have even a little respect for him to tell him what happened. And you continued your affair. That is the moment when you killed him emotionally. Years passed and he is now an empty man who lives with person who destroyed his life and happiness. Your kid is only thing that kept him in the house,not you. I think that he can't ever recover from that. I think that no one can. Even if he chooses to stay married,he would never be that happy guy from the beginning of the marriage.Never. You just did too much bad things to him. He can't ever love you the way he lived you before. Be sure of that. So,if you hope that things will be like in the beginning of your marriage sometime in the future,they will never be the same.


I dont think I agree with this tbh. I would normally agree with this but there is something about this scenario which makes me think it is salvageable because of the authenticity of both parties, this is raw to the core. This level of honesty and introspection may be what tips the marriage into a new beginning.

I also think that maybe he also had time to think during the time she was having an affair as to how they got to that point. *There is absolutely no excuse for what OP did, I suspect that she was feeling neglected and allowed the slimy AP sweet talk her into the affair with her eyes wide open.* The husband may have thought of teaching her a lesson, moving on (sounds like a strong man) but a good solid man would know this goes against everything in his core and maybe this is what he has wanted all along. However, whether he has the strenght to forgive her and trust OP again is another issue considering the level of deception OP engaged in after she was found out. I am rooting for this couple though. They will need lots of counselling/therapy and forgiveness and patience with one another.


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was a step down from being a sociopath with major issues with narcissism and entitled beyond belief.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious why you think you were this way and why you think you will not be this way going forward? It's very rare that someone can be like this and change. I get that now you want to change but it's so rare. How much of this is just the fear of losing your home and the life you have? Maybe you are not those things and you are just using the terms.
Click to expand...

Narcissism and sociopath are obviously overdramatic. I'm not even sure I really understand sociopath well. Isn't it someone who can't empathize?

Obviously, I am not exactly those things. But I had elements of them.

Also if you asked the me of before and during the affair what she thought about her relationship with her husband she would have told you that she loves her husband, but he didnt appreciate or love her properly. What a load of crap.

Selfish and entitled. I guess those are better words. Add in stupid and ignorant. That's a pretty toxic mix.

Learning helped change me. My husbands 180 helped changed me. As long as he fed the beast in my head with attention and love i didn't need to change. My children anger helped changed me. 

Money wasn't a driving factor as my state doesn't have at fault divorce. I could divorce whenever I want and take a good chunk. Enough to take care of me for a good long while. And being who I was back then I probably would have considered it easy to nab a rich guy. I mean my ap wasn't exactly a rich man. He was a heating and air conditioning guy. He worked for some crap dinky shop.
Money while a point of contention earlier marriage is not a driving factor as well.

I would be willing to sign a post nup of that is my husbands concern bit they don't really work all that well from what i hear about my state. Which is new york by the way.

Losing the more immaterial things. The connection to my children, my husbands love, my parent's disapproval. What the neighborhood might say. Yes. They played a part. More in the beginning. I am ashamed of that. I had ****ty reasons. But sometimes flowers grow out of **** right?

Its a big mix of reasons. Some better than others and some selfish. The more time passes the more I try to weed out selfish thought patterns. It's hard. It's almost ingrained. 

I don't want to be that person. I want to be someone my husband can rely on. Not a liability. Not a burden.

I'll admit it wasn't all love and a shocking inner awakening that changed me. There where still and still is elements of selfishness to my change. I believe that had changed more and more over time. And I'm still trying to change.

My growth isn't done. It will never be done. I want the tools to be a better mate for my husband. I try to empathize in everything I do but most of all empathize with my husband. I fight against defensiveness and a need to always be right and always perceived as being right.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> My growth isn't done. It will never be done. I want the tools to be a better mate for my husband. I try to empathize in everything I do but most of all empathize with my husband. I fight against defensiveness and a need to always be right and always perceived as being right.


There is nothing wrong with these things but what happens if he decides that he wants to move on? Wanting to do the work has to be about more then doing it for your husband. What happens if you survive and 10 years from now you are not feeling this way anymore, if you start to feel the feelings you did right before your affair?

Do you kids know about your affair? You talk a lot about how your kids hate you have you started to think about repairing these relationships?


----------



## sokillme

One Eighty said:


> You are correct that post-nups don't work well in NY. Even pre-nups are of questionable value in NY. Need to be very careful not to be unfair.
> 
> You could let him divorce you, let him have generous terms on that D and then see if he remarries you. It would be a loving gesture on your part. Dangerous though for you and your financial wellbeing. In my D my WS took the max she could get. Which in part lead me to be trapped in a strange, not married, relationship with her. But she took the max bc she was not sorry for what she did. She blamed me for causing her to have an affair, at the time of the D.


Dude get some help. Seriously your life sounds like a nightmare, who cares how pretty she is, she sounds like the devil.


----------



## BluesPower

FoolishOne said:


> Though he is still struggling with the idea that i chose my ap for emotional reasons and not sexual ones. He doesn't understand. He says if i had sex with my ap over him its hard for him to believe i didnt like it more than with him.


This is actually quite easy to understand. Men don't want their wives sleeping with other men. Period. 

So if you did it I must have been better and it must mean that you did not love him. Most men cannot understand how women feel because they don't feel that way.

Most men continually wonder, was he better, was he bigger, did he please her more than me? All of those questions and more. And some never get over it. 

For me, it was never a question of was the guy better than me, 1) I did not really care, and 2) He was not. He was not half the man I was then or now and he never will be. So that part never bothered me. 

For me, what really bothered me is who she had an affair with, he was a complete dork in everyway. That is what embarrassed me. I mean if you are going to blow up your life, the least you could do is have some decent sex, and find someone better than me. 

But your H has these thoughts, and will have. You have to reassure him without being bothered by his questions or be condescending or impatient about it.


----------



## FoolishOne

One Eighty said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I meant was him finding out back then. Not now. My husband didn't blow up now. He actually wasn't all that surprised by the contents of my confession. He told me it was not that radicly different from what he thought.
> 
> 
> 
> I do find it was odd that he could stomach knowing you were going to be with the AP. That would have driven me crazy. It was only knowing that my WS cut her AP off and having independent evidence of this, that allowed me to still be with her. Even so, sometimes I could not stand the sight of her. Still do.
> 
> Perhaps the revenge affair is what helped him tolerate this. I attempted a revenge affair myself right after DDay. I took a few steps in that direction. Talked and emailed with a woman I knew was hot for me. We planned to meet and spend the night together when WS was out of town. The day came for it and I literally felt so sick to my stomach that I had to tell her I changed my mind. I even confessed later to WS what I had done bc I felt so guilty, even though I didn't follow through.
> 
> 
> 
> Though he is still struggling with the idea that I chose my ap for emotional reasons and not sexual ones. He doesn't understand. He says if I had sex with my ap over him it's hard for him to believe I didn't like it more than with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting. In my case it was clear, WS was/is one of those people that have a bottomless pit when it comes to attention and flattery. She is in the top 1% as far as physical beauty. She was in magazines like Vogue and Mademoiselle. Yet she has super low self-esteem. All the compliments and flattery she gets from me, not enough. Never enough. So I totally get it, believe her, when she says she was just giving him sex to keep his attention. He used her for sex and she used him for attention and his future faking, that she thought was real.
> 
> I don't know why this bothers you H more. Maybe bc it is a new facet of the relationship that he didn't know before? I feel a tiny bit better knowing she wasn't with her AP because he was a better match for her sexually. If that were the case I think I'd not been about to live with her as long post DDay as I have.
Click to expand...

My husband never got to see any messages besides the few emails he did find. Hopefully my phone recover goes well. It will hurt him to read what i wrote back then but it should fill in some blanks and verify my words. There should be proof of me ending the affair and even me making a few Diggs at my aps ability to please me when things got acidic between ap and me toward the end. I know that won't change much about our marriage, but maybe it will help him somehow.

He has had a vision of what my affair entailed and what my affair meant to me building in his head and without any correction from me his vision geared towards the most hurtful version he could imagine. He said he knew that was his mind overdoing it but had trouble fighting the doubt.

He has admitted to having nightmares where I say things while being with my ap that would rip his soul out. The kind of stuff you expect to see in cuckold porn.

It makes me sick that that has circled around in his head.

About your wife and her beauty. While I'm no model I have been attractive all my life. The attention men gave me and in still give me is something I better understand now. It affects me less now. I do still catch myself enjoying the male gaze from time to time. It's about ego. I have to work on it. But it's not like my husband doesn't attract female attention as well so I think he understands at least a little.

Also I don't see my husband as less attractive than myself. I have always thought attraction was important, as well as sexual compatibility. Looking at my husband from an unemotional and clinical stand point he is a great male specimen.

I have read a bit about the idea that the more attractive person has the advantage in a relationship, but I don't know how that factors in. My complaints where about emotional issues not physical ones. 

About self-esteem. I would like to say I didn't have self-esteem issues. Actually I would say the opposite.

But looking back why then was my aps words so effective at feeding my need for ego kibbles? Why was the need for external validation so important to me that I was willing to sleep with another man to get it. Its complicated and most of the answers I come up with entail me being a bad/weak person.

The me of back then would call it love. The me of bow knows it was anything but love. Maybe a desperate need to love myself when I knew I was unlovable?


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> My growth isn't done. It will never be done. I want the tools to be a better mate for my husband. I try to empathize in everything I do but most of all empathize with my husband. I fight against defensiveness and a need to always be right and always perceived as being right.
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong with these things but what happens if he decides that he wants to move on? Wanting to do the work has to be about more than doing it for your husband. What happens if you survive and 10 years from now you are not feeling this way anymore, if you start to feel the feelings you did right before your affair?
> 
> Do you kids know about your affair? You talk a lot about how your kids hate you have you started to think about repairing these relationships?
Click to expand...

That's true. I should change for me. I will. It's hard not to focus on my husband and what he thinks and wants right now.

My children were told mom fell in love with someone else and wants to break up our family. Not to mention I was a pretty awful mother at this point. Me and the oldest butted heads a lot. The youngest is an avid follower of the oldest and they are BOTH massive daddy's girls. They take after me like that. I was a daddy's girl too.


----------



## Lostinthought61

FoolishOne said:


> What i meant was him finding out back then. Not now. My husband didn't blow up now. He actually wasn't all that surprised by the contents of my confession. He told me it was not that radicly different from what he thought. Though he did believe my ap wasn't the only one. If im honest with myself he might still think there where other. Though I hope not. I told the truth the whole truth.
> 
> Though he is still struggling with the idea that i chose my ap for emotional reasons and not sexual ones. He doesn't understand. He says if i had sex with my ap over him its hard for him to believe i didnt like it more than with him.
> 
> Im hoping the recover of my old phone goes well. There are a lot of messages back and forth. It should show him what our relationship was like.


As the old adage says men look for sex women look for emotional bonding when looking to cheat, in the case of your husband he was looking for a sex partner not to get emotionally tied...so for him thinking about your situation he was trying to compare himself to you seeking sex with the AP not the emotional bonding...ask your husband this, maybe you have was his partner better in the sack than you? then ask him was his partner getting emotional tied to him on some level? this may open his eyes.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> That's true. I should change for me. I will. It's hard not to focus on my husband and what he thinks and wants right now.
> 
> Good
> 
> My children were told mom fell in love with someone else and wants to break up our family.
> 
> You should correct this. I think it would be hard for them if you stayed together thinking you feel in love with someone else. It's better they see that their were things wrong with your thinking and love had nothing to do with it. At least they can learn from that and maybe something good will come out of it. You really should come clean with them as you did with your husband. Appropriately of course. They don't need to know the details.


----------



## Kamstel

But isn’t it correct? She did fall in love with another guy, and she did know that it would break up the family.

Tell the kids the truth of what happened is just a natural consequence of her actions.
If they try to correct it with a newly revised/updated/new and improved truth, the girls would see right through the lies, and would have a difficult time believing anything the parents said in the future.

Wish you good luck in reaching whatever your ultimate destination may be. I hope you reach it ASAP.


----------



## BluesPower

Kamstel said:


> But isn’t it correct? She did fall in love with another guy, and she did know that it would break up the family.
> 
> Tell the kids the truth of what happened is just a natural consequence of her actions.
> If they try to correct it with a newly revised/updated/new and improved truth, the girls would see right through the lies, and would have a difficult time believing anything the parents said in the future.
> 
> Wish you good luck in reaching whatever your ultimate destination may be. I hope you reach it ASAP.


Now, I don't think in this case she really fell in love. She may have thought that for a minute. For me, I am feeling like she is one of the few WW that has done a certain amount of introspection and she is really "Getting It" on another level. 

I don't think she ever loved her AP, I think even then that she realized some of the reason, she wanted attention. 

I think it is fine to tell the kids that Mommy had an affair and M & D are working through it if they stay together. 

It is hard to say which way to go with some of this...


----------



## personofinterest

FoolishOne, let your husband lead the direction of your actual relationship, and you lead in making amends and changing yourself, along with being there for him. Love your children well and be patient with all of them.

And remember this: there are three people to whom you owe yourself - your husband and your two children. Ultimately, THEY are the only ones whose opinion of you or your thoughts or your efforts matter.

Don't fall into the trap of feeling your aren't doing well enough if faces strangers (many of whom cannot possibly be objective) find fault with your efforts. Focus on what YOUR family needs - because that is the true test.


----------



## faithfulman

Lostinthought61 said:


> As the old adage says men look for sex women look for emotional bonding when looking to cheat, in the case of your husband he was looking for a sex partner not to get emotionally tied...so for him thinking about your situation he was trying to compare himself to you seeking sex with the AP not the emotional bonding...*ask your husband this, maybe you have was his partner better in the sack than you? then ask him was his partner getting emotional tied to him on some level? this may open his eyes.*



I think this approach is too confrontational and may trigger FoolishOne's husband.


----------



## faithfulman

FoolishOne said:


> What i meant was him finding out back then. Not now. My husband didn't blow up now. He actually wasn't all that surprised by the contents of my confession. He told me it was not that radicly different from what he thought. Though he did believe my ap wasn't the only one. If im honest with myself he might still think there where other. Though I hope not. I told the truth the whole truth.
> 
> *Though he is still struggling with the idea that i chose my ap for emotional reasons and not sexual ones. He doesn't understand. He says if i had sex with my ap over him its hard for him to believe i didnt like it more than with him.*
> 
> Im hoping the recover of my old phone goes well. There are a lot of messages back and forth. It should show him what our relationship was like.


Maybe offer to take a polygraph to back up your words.

I don't know if that is the right thing to do. Just a thought though.


----------



## frigginlost

Foolishone,

Find my post a few pages back about how I felt after reading your steps you have taken -- I was in the same boat as your husband -- and how I thought because of those steps if I were in your husbands shoes, I would be re-thinking my future.

My ex took half-a$$ed steps and I saw right through them. You on the other hand have handled everything perfectly and you are doing the right things. The ap of your husband means nothing to him on a "love" level. What he found in her was the piece of trust that you broke with him. Trust is massive to us men. I don't think women completely understand that when we place our trust in women, it is complete and total devotion to that woman. It goes back to us as children and our relationships with our parents. 

Your husbands recent actions with you lead me to believe that he wants with all his might to find that trust in you again, but he is fighting himself because you are the cause of the biggest pain he ever felt. It's very, very, very, hard for a male to completely trust -- anyone -- who has busted that truth. It's even harder if that person is someone he adored.

But, something tells me that you guys have a better chance at saving the marriage than 90% of the others that try, and that is because the communication between you two is *honest*. Do not under any circumstance "fib" "white lie" or "sweep" anything in talking with him. If you do, it's game over. Your husband is looking for reasons to leave and for reasons to stay. He knows he can find a woman elsewhere, but something is keeping you in the picture. He sees that. He's focusing on that. Let him. He's trying to find the girl he fell in love with. The girl he could trust...


----------



## Decorum

@FoolishOne,
I am proud of you. You have my respect for your attitude and how far you have come.

It looks to me like the two of you actually have something special, something precious (I know you wish you had realized it sooner).

Honestly, if he belives he can be happy, then I am rooting for you both.

There are no guarantees in a future relationship with someone else for him, so he will weigh that too.

Reconciliation often is the harder path for a betrayed partner, please realize what a gift it really is.

He will weigh what you have, what the personal cost to him will be, emotionally, timewise, efffort, financial, just in everyway.

Also how good will it be, the bond you have, and of course his family.

Men often say that sex makes them feel connected to their partner, it is a very personal thing to let someone inside of you, and there is a lot of validation to the man when you do.

The reverse is true, the feelig of being rejected, of being easily replaceable, of being inadequate are devastating and gutting beyond words and into years of doubt and pain.

The reason your husband wants to know about the emotional aspect is because he wants to know if and how much he was replaced. 

I'm not suggesting this but one wayward wife whose husband found out about a past affair, took her husbands face in her hands looked him in the eyes and said, "I'm your girl, if I lose you then I am losing the best man for me I will ever find", and I would add, "I selfishly pleased myself with shallow attention, I did not value myself enough, nor you, because you cannot be replaced."

Tell him you dont deserve a second chance, but if he gives you one you will never be stupid enough to ever jeopardize your (our) relationship again.

I wish you both well.Take care.


----------



## Decorum

One more thing. Sometimes in an effort to show respect and acceptance of a husbands decision to reconcile or not a WW will try to ease his guilt should he decide to end it by saying, "if you choose divorce I wll understand and I will be ok".

On the face of it this may seem self-sacrificing, but that is NOT how it comes across, avoid ANY statements like this.

You can say, "I will respect your decision, because you deserve that, but I will be devastated if I lose you".

You are wanting to repair the relationship because he means so much to you.

That is ok!


----------



## Dawghoused

You are not a fool. You are saying the truth that means you are doing atonement for your past sins. You didn't treat your husband and his family in a good way that may be the reason your husband started an affair. If you want to save your marriage apologize for your mistake and assure your husband it will not happen again in the future.


----------



## Taxman

I just had a man leave my office. He discovered his wife's infidelity in the worst way possible. She was on a six month sales trip, and middle of last month, a lab report confirming a pregnancy accidentally showed up in his snail-mail. The timing, nearly at the end of the six months, makes it less than possible that the child is his. The nightly "I love you's and miss you's" ended abruptly. He confronted while she was in France. He told her that she needs to have this child so somebody will love her. She was begging, pleading, crying, and he sunk a final nail in her heart, he said that he now spends every waking second wishing and hoping that she gets cancer. She has been told that she is not to return to our country. Her employer in Viet was apprised of the situation, and questioned her closely. The result was that she was removed from her position, and her AP lost his job as well. She is alone in Europe, and is drawing on funds that will eventually end. He has made it his mission to destroy every facet of her life. Everyone in both of their respective families has now made it impossible for her to return home, or go back to their native country. She has communicated with both myself and her solicitor, but there is little we can do, he has had her removed from the deed to their home and properties. Her mother, who was given power of attorney in her absence, had acted against her daughter, and has stated that her daughter has humiliated her family, and will have to deal with the consequences of her actions alone. I have advised that she should return to North America, so the money does not run out in a foreign country, but right now she is an emotional basket case.


----------



## personofinterest

Taxman said:


> I just had a man leave my office. He discovered his wife's infidelity in the worst way possible. She was on a six month sales trip, and middle of last month, a lab report confirming a pregnancy accidentally showed up in his snail-mail. The timing, nearly at the end of the six months, makes it less than possible that the child is his. The nightly "I love you's and miss you's" ended abruptly. He confronted while she was in France. He told her that she needs to have this child so somebody will love her. She was begging, pleading, crying, and he sunk a final nail in her heart, he said that he now spends every waking second wishing and hoping that she gets cancer. She has been told that she is not to return to our country. Her employer in Viet was apprised of the situation, and questioned her closely. The result was that she was removed from her position, and her AP lost his job as well. She is alone in Europe, and is drawing on funds that will eventually end. He has made it his mission to destroy every facet of her life. Everyone in both of their respective families has now made it impossible for her to return home, or go back to their native country. She has communicated with both myself and her solicitor, but there is little we can do, he has had her removed from the deed to their home and properties. Her mother, who was given power of attorney in her absence, had acted against her daughter, and has stated that her daughter has humiliated her family, and will have to deal with the consequences of her actions alone. I have advised that she should return to North America, so the money does not run out in a foreign country, but right now she is an emotional basket case.


What is your purpose in sharing this story?


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## Kamstel

Just checking on you. How are you? How is husband doing? 

Wish you the best


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## [email protected]

I reviewed all of the posts here from the beginning. I'm sorry, but it appears to me that FoolisheOne's marriage is dead. Seemingly, her BS will never get will never get those images out of his head.


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## personofinterest

[email protected] said:


> I reviewed all of the posts here from the beginning. I'm sorry, but it appears to me that FoolisheOne's marriage is dead. Seemingly, her BS will never get will never get those images out of his head.


Perhaps you are not the final authority nor arbiter of the outcome....


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## FoolishOne

It's going. My husband has come forward and admitted to using coke somewhat heavily for the last year. He was using it as go juice (his words). She started him on it. He has never done any drugs besides pot once in while. Usually when offered at a party.

I didn't have a clue. My name seems very apt right now. We are working on it.

We have recovered everything from his burner phone and my old phone and are going through them.

He warned me it would be hurtful to read his texts to her. They are. He called me some names, but I'm a big girl.

I feel like I should have just thrown it away. I should have listened to the person who suggested that. Curiosity took control. 

Besides the hurtful things said and getting over how sexual they were (nonstop sexual shenanigans) and how she seemed to compete with me and hate me, I have another issue.

She is married. I want to tell her husband. My husband understands if I do, but I can tell he doesn't like the idea. I know why.

She is a piece of ****. I thought what I texted to my ap about my husband is bad. Its nothing compared to what she wrote. Its like she set out to rip her husband's manhood, heart and self-esteem out should he ever read those messages.

I think I am going to give the husband proof, but not the extremely hurtful stuff. Her messages makes me believe she enjoys cuckolding her husband. But I need him informed so that this obviously crazy for my husband ***** backs off. She is blowing up his burner phone. I haven't replied and neither has my husband. She is going insane. He sent a nc text and went dark on her. She cracked it seems.

My husband admits both feeling great at being compared to another man and found better and guilty for doing what was done to him to another man and throwing his morals away. He says he has slipped far down from the moral man he was and he wants that back.

Im also worried about her husband coming after mine. He is not as tough looking or as big as my husband, but .... Guns, knives, baseball bats. If my husband gets murdered over this i would feel like **** for the rest of my life.

He is also angry about what some of my messages say about him. Nothing emasculating, but my anger and hostility towards my husband is obvious. 

He was happy to see I broke up with my ap. He actually laughed when I called my ap's manhood into question. He was able to retrieve a few **** pics and actually sent my ap a pic of his own junk for my ap to compare himself with and insulted my ap. I didn't have anything to say about that. If it helps him he can have at it. It doesn't fix anything between us. That's all on us.

So basically one step forward one step back. No idea where this is going. Husband hasn't much of a clue either. 

I have to admit radical honesty is hard to deal with. He isn't pulling any punches. He isn't doing it to hurt me, but it still hurts to hear his opinions at times. That's on me though. He isn't being abusive.

We actually want to take this weekend off of relationship issues to go do some stuff together and just relax. He is going salmon fishing Saturday morning with his brother and then after we are heading to our camp with the youngest. 

My husband has started talking to our oldest about fixing our relationship. She is pissed that my husband is thinking about staying. She is honestly more angry than I thought she would be. I have no idea how I am going to world that out.

I and my husband have scheduled IC for both of us and MC. It was at my insistence. He doesn't really like marriage councilors and the like. Says the husband always gets blamed for everything.


----------



## TDSC60

Some MCs are full of crap. So if either one of you feels uncomfortable with the MC, find another one.


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## personofinterest

Do your children know about his affair too? If children need to be told about affairs, then children need to be told about both, right?

It sounds like, as painful as it is, that processing through all this is what needs to happen. Keep allowing your husband to say what he needs to say. It hurts, but I think it is necessary.

I have mixed feelings about the telling of the OW's husband. He needs to know. I can understand why your husband doesn't like it. It's just tough all around.

Good for both of you for turning to each other for this stuff. Just stay the course and remember that in the end it is your husband's and your children's view of the marriage and of you that counts.


----------



## faithfulman

Damn, what a mess.

FoolishOne, the good news is that it appears your husband wants to make a go of it with you, but it is early still.

It appears this woman he found is a true degenerate. Her husband does need to know, but how soon? It's a lot to deal with simultaneously.

As far as telling your children about his transgressions, I think you should unwind your half of the mess first before you open up that can of worms.

I think your concern about the other man harming your husband is valid.

And that chick he was ****ing sounds craaaaaaaazy! She may try to hurt either or both of you. Tread carefully, both of you.

I think your husband has descended into a pit of disgusting immoral behavior, much further than I would have thought, because he decided to **** a married woman.

With that act he has lost any type of moral high ground because his affair was not just to get back at you, or recapture his manhood.

He hurt someone who never did him any wrong.

I wish your family luck. Please be careful.


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## FieryHairedLady

Ok the other woman's husband has a right to know. That is mandatory. THat + this affair needs to be exposed. 

That being said, I will say this: I don't know much about how these things go, but it seems to me that once her hubby finds out, all hell will break loose.

It will take the affair out of hiding, which is good.

But be prepared.

If her hubby gives her a good kick in the ass, as well he should, he may leave, or force her to leave.

If he does, she may try even harder to get back with your hubby.

And this affair was going on for 1 year?

WOW!


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## TAMAT

Foolishone,

Yes inform the BH, how unfair that 3 of the involved parties all know what is going on except for the BH of OW. Give him all the details so he can make an informed decision and not waste years of his life with a woman who holds him is such contempt.

Once anyone has an affair they cannot control the consequences, if the BH finds out a year from now he might be even more inclined to attack. As in your case honesty and a self -emptying confession is the best choice.

"an honest answer is like a kiss on the lips" proverbs 

Tamat


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## FoolishOne

My husband has already told me he will tell the girls. He asked for me to be present as well. He told me he would do this before I even asked. 

We want to talk about both affairs and what our plans as a family are going forward. We have left them out of this for too long. We will obviously leave out the non age appropriate things or the more detailed version.

About my husbands affair... I don't know how to feel about that. I asked him how he could do this to another man after experiencing it for himself.

He looked ashamed. He said he has been on a downward spiral for a while. Extremely negative about everything. He admitted to a sort of **** the world attitude. Take what you want when you want. If you don't others will just take advantage of you. I am a little shocked my husband could do this. That and the coke. It isn't like him at all. 

That was the talking points that got us around to the idea of IC. He agreed. Then he agreed to MC.

I and him seem to be quite the **** ups right now. The last 3 years have taken me and him and wrung us dry. I feel like I started this all, but he has actually looked me straight in the eye and told me to stop taking blame for **** he has done. That helped me a lot. He has made sure to tell me not everything is my fault. His affair is on him. My cheating didnt mean he HAD to do this. It was his choice.

Also my husband says he wants to be the one to tell the aps husbandif we do tell him (which we probably are). He says he doesn't want to send his wife to do his dirty work. I'm dead set against ever letting this guy within a mile of my husband, but my husband has this whole "real men look each other in the eye when they apologize" crap going on. He says he isn't afraid of the husband and it's what's right. 

I keep telling him not to but he seems set on it. An email or a call is enough. I'm not crazy am I?


----------



## FoolishOne

Also my husband got really into this red pill philosophy stuff and that "game" stuff and those types of things. He let that lead his thinking a bit. I watched a few videos of a person he took tips from on youtube. It's shocking how these men treat relationships with women. **** em and dump em kind of stuff. All women are *****s in disguise type stuff.


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## farsidejunky

I'm not suggesting this approach is right, but you gave him anecdotal proof of all the negative aspects that the extreme sects of red pill preach about women.


FoolishOne said:


> Also my husband got really into this red pill philosophy stuff and that "game" stuff and those types of things. He let that lead his thinking a bit. I watched a few videos of a person he took tips from on youtube. It's shocking how these men treat relationships with women. **** em and dump em kind of stuff. All women are *****s in disguise type stuff.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## TAMAT

FO,

You wrote, *He admitted to a sort of **** the world attitude. Take what you want when you want. If you don't others will just take advantage of you.*

Many men, myself included, regret not cheating on their wives as payback. I'm glad I didn't do so because I would just be causing emotional pain to some other family and their children. 

However every woman I turn down or refer to marriage counseling or some website is a dagger in me.

Tamat


----------



## FoolishOne

TAMAT said:


> FO,
> 
> You wrote, *He admitted to a sort of **** the world attitude. Take what you want when you want. If you don't others will just take advantage of you.*
> 
> Many men, myself included, regret not cheating on their wives as payback. I'm glad I didn't do so because I would just be causing emotional pain to some other family and their children.
> 
> However every woman I turn down or refer to marriage counseling or some website is a dagger in me.
> 
> Tamat


The ow and her husband don't have children. Thank Christ.


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## TAMAT

No kids!

Even more reason to tell the BH quickly so she doesn't tie him down by getting herself pregnant, and locking him into a marriage with a woman who will never love him.


----------



## FoolishOne

Can somone please give me some opinion on my husband telling the other husband. We are literally in hot debate on and off. He only just started talking about this a little while ago. He is dead set on meeting this guy. Im freaking out. Its a bad bad idea. 

I thought he was trying to control how much info gets told to the husband for a little while but no he is fine with us sending the husband everything.

Im trying to tell him his pride isn't worth the risk, but he told me he has been making sacrifices to his honor and morals little by little degree by degree for the last few years and he's done. Im scared. This sound like an awful idea.

Am i wrong?


----------



## personofinterest

Look, pushing this right now is a bad idea.

Drop it for a few days and work on making amends and YOUR stuff.


----------



## FoolishOne

Your right. I just don't want him getting hurt. People kill for love. I have no idea what this guy will do.

We have been talking about my affair. We have been talking about both really.

My husband hasn't been nearly as angry as I expected. He has moments when he seems zoned out and sad. Times when he doesn't want to talk. And times when he seems like a man about to leap into mortal combat (that was after he read those messages from my ap and mostly seems aimed at my ap). But usually i apologize and grab his arm or hug him and then give him his space if he wants it. A few times he came to me after and hugged me and thanked me for the space. Apologized for being distant.

I think he is at a place where he isn't questioning what my affair was like anymore. He has accepted the reality of it and now he is just seeing if it's a deal breaker. As long as I kept my secret it was always a deal breaker in his book and now that I told he has to weigh in his heart whether it still is a deal breaker.

He is very angry at my ap. He is really pissed that my ap was someone he shook hands with and interacted with on a somewhat semi regular basis. His words were "cowardly weasel was right under my nose."

The only real things I can do when my husband is in pain or expressing anger is answer any and all questions as best as I possibly can, comfort him, apologize, and make sure he knows I'm doing my best to understand and empathize with his pain.

He has actually been doing the same to a maybe lesser extent. When I was reading his phone I had some emotional moments. He apologized. I told him he didn't need to but he did anyways and it made me feel better. 

It's odd. My husband looked at me last night and said jokingly "maybe we are perfect for each other. Two broken people". I said we didn't have to be broken. We can fix ourselves. And I apologized for breaking him. He said it wasn't my fault completely. He didn't have to let it break him.

I feel hope. Its way to early for that i know. I feel desperate hope anyways. But it has a sad feeling to it. I think its the knowledge in the back of my head that I and my husband will never be as innocent as we were. My husband will never see me the same. I know i kissed that goodbye when i had my affair but it is really just fully dawning on me lately. 

Others have said it and I said "I know I know" like a know it all, but it really will never be the same. I want to cry. I smashed something priceless. The fragments have worth but will it ever be whole again?


----------



## Thor

My opinion is that your husband not meet owh in person. Some form of proof needs to be provided, too. Ow will just claim the alegations are made up. She’ll say your husband is upset she rebuffed him, or some other story. So something like photos or printouts of emails should be provided. This can be done by a 3rd party hand delivering it, etc.

Meeting om in person could be ugly. If your H insists on doing it in person he should do it in a public place, but away from their workplaces. Your husband should keep it brief, apologize, and provide the packet of proof. He should offer an email or phone # if he wants more info.


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## faithfulman

personofinterest said:


> Look, pushing this right now is a bad idea.
> 
> Drop it for a few days and work on making amends and YOUR stuff.


Strong agreement here. Think it over, both of you. 

And tell me your husband doesn't want to share buttsex and blowjob videos of this man's wife? 

That man may lose his mind. He may harm your husband, he may harm himself, he may harm his terrible wife.

If somebody is going to share those details, it should be the wife.


----------



## sokillme

Frankly FO your husband is a POS to do that to another man after he had it done to him. I know its harsh and will piss you off but so be it. To know what that is like and to still do that. 

As far as her husband he deserves to know and the whole truth so he can't come onto her or somewhere else and have the white knights tell him how he should stay with his wife because she sheds a lot of crocodile tears. 

What a mess.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> Also my husband got really into this red pill philosophy stuff and that "game" stuff and those types of things. He let that lead his thinking a bit. I watched a few videos of a person he took tips from on youtube. It's shocking how these men treat relationships with women. **** em and dump em kind of stuff. All women are *****s in disguise type stuff.


It's amazing in two posts your husband lost all sympathy from me. Good luck.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> Can somone please give me some opinion on my husband telling the other husband. We are literally in hot debate on and off. He only just started talking about this a little while ago. He is dead set on meeting this guy. Im freaking out. Its a bad bad idea.
> 
> I thought he was trying to control how much info gets told to the husband for a little while but no he is fine with us sending the husband everything.
> 
> Im trying to tell him his pride isn't worth the risk, but he told me he has been making sacrifices to his honor and morals little by little degree by degree for the last few years and he's done. Im scared. This sound like an awful idea.
> 
> Am i wrong?


Your both right. It's the honorable thing to do in as string of dishonorable decisions, but he may get the **** kicked out of him and it's not like he doesn't deserve it.


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also my husband got really into this red pill philosophy stuff and that "game" stuff and those types of things. He let that lead his thinking a bit. I watched a few videos of a person he took tips from on youtube. It's shocking how these men treat relationships with women. **** em and dump em kind of stuff. All women are *****s in disguise type stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> It's amazing in two posts your husband lost all sympathy from me. Good luck.
Click to expand...

My husband and me are not looking for sympathy. Just opinions on how to dig out of this. It's not a popularity contest. And honestly every man and woman on earth could think of me and my husband as complete and utter human garbage at this point and I wouldn't really care as long as my husband and I are good with each other.

I think we have the path before us and we are going to try walking it together. We are both damaged. It won't be fixed overnight.

I also want to defend my husband. He isn't a piece of ****. The last three years have been a spiral of depression and frustration held under the surface. He wasnt this way before. He has made mistakes. He owns them. Just like I am owning mine. Just because he isn't on this site ripping his heart out for the panel of judges here doesn't mean he isn't doing the work. Once upon a time (about a week ago) the vast majority of people commenting on this very thread where only dropping by to throw a few punches and call me human garbage. Now look at it. Helpful supportive advice mainly. 

He may have lost your sympathy but not mine. I made awful choices. He made awful choices in response to my choices. It has compounded the problem but who the hell am I to point fingers?

And what about all those who say shelve my husband's affair? He had good reason for it? It's not the same and he can't be judged for doing it while in that state of mind? So if that's true then what..... because there was someone besides me who got hurt by his affair he is suddenly evil? 

No. Just damaged. Just like me. Damaged by me. So no. I'm not going to judge him and frankly any judgment of him is like water off a ducks feathers to me. Anything that could be said about him can be said twice over about me. And here you all are supporting me and wishing me well for the most part.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> My husband and me are not looking for sympathy. Just opinions on how to dig out of this. It's not a popularity contest. And honestly every man and woman on earth could think of me and my husband as complete and utter human garbage at this point and I wouldn't really care as long as my husband and I are good with each other.
> 
> I think we have the path before us and we are going to try walking it together. We are both damaged. It won't be fixed overnight.
> 
> I also want to defend my husband. He isn't a piece of ****. The last three years have been a spiral of depression and frustration held under the surface. He wasnt this way before. He has made mistakes. He owns them. Just like I am owning mine. Just because he isn't on this site ripping his heart out for the panel of judges here doesn't mean he isn't doing the work. Once upon a time (about a week ago) the vast majority of people commenting on this very thread where only dropping by to throw a few punches and call me human garbage. Now look at it. Helpful supportive advice mainly.
> 
> He may have lost your sympathy but not mine. I made awful choices. He made awful choices in response to my choices. It has compounded the problem but who the hell am I to point fingers?
> 
> And what about all those who say shelve my husband's affair? He had good reason for it? It's not the same and he can't be judged for doing it while in that state of mind? So if that's true then what..... because there was someone besides me who got hurt by his affair he is suddenly evil?
> 
> No. Just damaged. Just like me. Damaged by me. So no. I'm not going to judge him and frankly any judgment of him is like water off a ducks feathers to me. Anything that could be said about him can be said twice over about me. And here you all are supporting me and wishing me well for the most part.


Look I call it like I see it. Doesn't mean he will be awful forever but what he did is horrible because he knows the pain and now has inflicted it on someone else. That will be something he has to live with, he could have used this to make him a better person instead he used it to sink to the worst level. I am one who doesn't think that how you are treated gives you the right to treat others the same way. If he was once the person you say he was then I suspect this will be worse for him then even your affair, but that may take time for him to fully appreciate. By the way that doesn't mean you shouldn't work on the marriage. 

I will drop it now as this is not the point of this tread. Nor is it right for us or me to pile on.


----------



## BluesPower

You know I am as harsh as anyone, but come on guys. 

@FoolishOne, her husband, his OW, her AP, the only one that is innocent is the OWH as far as we know. 

But to say that the OW is worse than FoolishOne, guys that is silly. She is the same as FO, that is the bottom line. 

The only thing that FO has is her favor is she did not completely trash her H, so there is that. 

All this relative outrage is just ridiculous. And, let's completely be honest. FO's husband would have probably NEVER had an affair if she had not had one first.

And of course FO's H had an affair JUST to get his balls back, and he did some coke, give me a break. The man needed to get his balls back, and they are fully attached, so he can get his head together now. 

Let's get this thing in focus, nobody here is clean, they have all made mistakes. 

AND DO NOT TELL OWH in person. I put a man in the hospital for that one time, so no do not do that. 

Both of you need to chill for a few days and take your time with all of this. 

And @FoolishOne, you are getting support because you manage to understand what we were telling you, you confessed, and you are moving forward. 

Just keep moving forward...


----------



## jlg07

Copy all of the texts, etc. from the OW and your husband and send them to the BS. He should know the truth of what happened and what he actually is married to. I would NOT recommend meeting him in person, certainly NOT for the first meeting and drop off of the proof.


----------



## NorseViking

personofinterest said:


> What is your purpose in sharing this story?


To scare other people straight like lurking cheating wannabes... >


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## Lostinthought61

Last time i checked none of us walk on water...we are all damaged in some way, we all have past behaviors that we are not proud of.......we each have to own our own crap or at least deal with it. Foolish and her husband are trying to work this out, it not an easy road and there may be sudden surge of anger for one reason or another on their journey but i would rather have a partner who is willing to accept their faults but look for a better future together, than someone who expect one partner to carry the entire load...i wish them all the best.


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## Bluesclues

I would suggest your husband not inform the BH in person. My reasoning has nothing to do with your husband’s safety. It is actually cruel for your husband to make this poor man have to face the man who helped ruin his life so he can feel some sense of integrity. The BH may want to have a face to face with your husband at some point, but let him learn his fate and react to the initial shock without your husband there. Seriously cruel. 

When I found out my first husband cheated I tried to contact the BH for months to tell him but the MOW blocked me every time. Out of frustration I finally insisted that my WH tell the BH himself. He agreed but delayed and delayed. I was pisses because I felt I had to carry the burden of his cheating and informing the BH. As fate would have it I went out one night with friends and the BH came to our table. I had no idea who the man was - my friend informed me who he was and I had a massive panick attack. Once I regained my composure I texted my WH that the BH was there and I was going to tell him. My WH flew to our location (left our two very young kids home alone sleeping! Ass). He had promised he would tell him and didn’t want him to break another promise. 

So as I have just finished telling this man that his wife had an affair with my husband, my WH walks up to the table. Whereas I did not know the BH nor his skank wife, my WH did. They all went to HS together. I felt so bad for the BH. I could see him almost reflexively smile like you do when you see an old friend, and then remember what I had just told him and the smile dropped. I could almost see his brain trying to figure out what to do next. He obviously wanted to punch him, but that would make a scene in front of all these people he knew and then people would know why. Did he want them to know? It was a quick exchange but it felt like a lifetime. BH asked WH if it was true. WH said yes. They did some weird male posturing and then shook hands. WH left (to be with our kids!) and the BH and I did a shot at the bar. 

Come to find out he went home and beat the crap out of her. (Don’t feel bad about that at all.) Apparently a few nights later she was driving drunk on the way to MY house to confront me for telling her BH. She crashed her car and was arrested for DUI. Got help with her drinking and they stayed together. My dday was ten years ago and we are divorced. They are still together, happy and welcoming grandkids. 

I guess my points are 1). Don’t let your husband tell the BH and 2) You never know what hurts and bad behaviors can be overcome in a marriage.


----------



## Idyit

@FoolishOne 

You're doing fine. Given circumstances maybe even great. 

Yes, your marriage is over, at least the crappy one that has existed prior to your affair up to the present. Now both of you have a choices moving forward. One or both could decide that too much damage has been done and end it. Or you could take the opportunity to grow individually, together. With both of you communicating and willing to work together you're poised for success. To strengthen what is going on it can't be stressed enough the need for third party counseling individually and as a couple. 

This can be done to produce a solid marriage. It may no longer be innocent or as pure as it once was but would be healthier all the way around. I say this because I've seen it. My best friend went through a similar situation and is two years into reconciliation. They love each other differently, maybe even more deeply.

You're taking the barbs of both you and your husbands behavior well. Focus on the road ahead.

I wish you well


----------



## x598

FoolishOne said:


> Can somone please give me some opinion on my husband telling the other husband. We are literally in hot debate on and off. He only just started talking about this a little while ago. He is dead set on meeting this guy. Im freaking out. Its a bad bad idea.
> 
> I thought he was trying to control how much info gets told to the husband for a little while but no he is fine with us sending the husband everything.
> 
> Im trying to tell him his pride isn't worth the risk, but he told me he has been making sacrifices to his honor and morals little by little degree by degree for the last few years and he's done. Im scared. This sound like an awful idea.
> 
> Am i wrong?


you didn't take my suggestion to just dump the burner phone in the rubbish bin. that's ok but I am guessing you now understand why. there was only more pain to be found there when you already knew what was going on. wallowing in the details isn't helpful.

normally I would be all about exposure.....but not in your case. I suggest let that one go too.

my suggestion is for your husband to tell the woman ITS OVER and then block her number. if she gets all crazy and stalking him then a restraining order is the next step.

your complaints are really with your husband, not her, she was just a vessel that became part of his life from the deterioration of your marriage. do not let her become a distraction from getting your home/marriage/life in order.


----------



## GusPolinski

FoolishOne said:


> Can somone please give me some opinion on my husband telling the other husband. We are literally in hot debate on and off. He only just started talking about this a little while ago. He is dead set on meeting this guy. Im freaking out. Its a bad bad idea.
> 
> I thought he was trying to control how much info gets told to the husband for a little while but no he is fine with us sending the husband everything.
> 
> Im trying to tell him his pride isn't worth the risk, but he told me he has been making sacrifices to his honor and morals little by little degree by degree for the last few years and he's done. Im scared. This sound like an awful idea.
> 
> Am i wrong?


You are.

The other BH deserves to know.


----------



## OutofRetirement

It's very common for the cheater to protect the affair partner.

But a lot of lies are uncovered. Yeah, the other man is a liar, too, but when the stories don't match up, hidden lies usually are surfaced.

It's common for the cheater to say I'm worried about my betrayed spouse getting hurt. Kind of hypocritical really when you consider who've hurt whom and how much. One can never prove the motivation, all one can do is put all the actions in context and decide as best one can what to make of it When someone has lied for six years, it's difficult for one to believe them even if it's true.

What is the risk? Why is it a bad bad idea? Y
Are you afraid the other man will get violent with your husband or do you think your husband won't be able to control himself from not being violent?

If it makes you feel any better, people are cheating and getting caught all the time, confronting the ones who were involved, and the very large majority get through just fine.


----------



## personofinterest

OutofRetirement said:


> It's very common for the cheater to protect the affair partner.
> 
> But a lot of lies are uncovered. Yeah, the other man is a liar, too, but when the stories don't match up, hidden lies usually are surfaced.
> 
> It's common for the cheater to say I'm worried about my betrayed spouse getting hurt. Kind of hypocritical really when you consider who've hurt whom and how much. One can never prove the motivation, all one can do is put all the actions in context and decide as best one can what to make of it When someone has lied for six years, it's difficult for one to believe them even if it's true.
> 
> What is the risk? Why is it a bad bad idea? Y
> Are you afraid the other man will get violent with your husband or do you think your husband won't be able to control himself from not being violent?
> 
> If it makes you feel any better, people are cheating and getting caught all the time, confronting the ones who were involved, and the very large majority get through just fine.


You're hilarious and cant read. Her husband had a revenge affair, her question is about her husband telling HIS Ap's husband.

But your little rant was fun to read.


----------



## OutofRetirement

personofinterest said:


> You're hilarious and cant read. Her husband had a revenge affair, her question is about her husband telling HIS Ap's husband.
> 
> But your little rant was fun to read.


As far as I can tell, your contribution in all threads are to criticize other posters.


----------



## personofinterest

OutofRetirement said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're hilarious and cant read. Her husband had a revenge affair, her question is about her husband telling HIS Ap's husband.
> 
> But your little rant was fun to read.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I can tell, your contribution in all threads are to criticize other posters.
Click to expand...

I guess you dont read much then *shrug*


----------



## OutofRetirement

personofinterest said:


> I guess you dont read much then *shrug*


No, I've read enough to know it. At least in the infidelity section.


----------



## sokillme

@FoolishOne

How is it going?


----------



## FoolishOne

Pretty good actually. All things considered.

No big answers or really many conclusions have been made at all. But that's ok. 

My husband did some salmon fishing this morning with his brother and then finished up early grabbed me and the youngest and took us up to camp. With one of those stupid fish. Some trout. Doesn't even taste good, but he loves eating what he catches. Plus my duaghter doesnt seem to mind the taste. 

He is building a bonfire right now and I'm starting dinner.

We are going to stop talking about everything for today and tomorrow and just relax. We have been in overdrive for a week. 

I saw that my husband packed a few night life necessities in his over night bag. I'm nervous but excited. We haven't done anything besides hug or kiss since last Saturdays reveal. I have been wanting it but afraid to seem to be manipulating.

Other than that. Not much has changed. We came to the conclusion that we need to slow down a bit. We are trying to handle this all in a week. Its stressing us out. 

I have to finish dinner. And after that I plan on attaching to my husband's hip by the fire and just enjoying the now. 

I will try to keep the thread updated. I'll check in every few days at least.


----------



## Robert22205

Hey...I think you guys are on track so far - good luck to both of you!


----------



## aine

FO, wishing you well. I also do not think you WH should confront the OW's H. It would be better to come from you.


----------



## dreamer2017

Good post,

You are no longer the FoolishOne!!! Keep up the good work!


----------



## Cynthia

The OW should tell her own husband. Don't have your husband do it for her. Force her hand. Tell her that if she doesn't tell him one of you will. If that happens, your husband should contact him via text and tell him. If he sends a text and want to meet with a stranger, the BH is going to want to know who your husband is and why he wants to meet with him. He's not going to be able to tell him in person before he already knows what's going on.


----------



## FoolishOne

CynthiaDe said:


> The OW should tell her own husband. Don't have your husband do it for her. Force her hand. Tell her that if she doesn't tell him one of you will. If that happens, your husband should contact him via text and tell him. If he sends a text and want to meet with a stranger, the BH is going to want to know who your husband is and why he wants to meet with him. He's not going to be able to tell him in person before he already knows what's going on.


Based on her texts she has no respect for her husband. If she tells it will be because she is forced too.

She would also change the facts to suit her. If I leave it up to her it wont get done or won't be done properly. I have no trust for this woman. 

I know I have no right to point fingers but she is complete and utter garbage. My husband agrees.... He really chose a keeper.... bleh...

We are going to give him everything we have with a warning attached that he may want to avoid reading it all to avoid pain. Will the warning help? .... probably not, but we will do it anyways.

My husband agreed it wasn't his place to approach this guy. Someone said leave it to the b.s. to decide. That it's his right. So I told my husband that. He agreed.


I'm struggling to help my husband understand my cheating had very little to do with him. He keeps asking in one form or another how he deserved that. He asked me how he was such a horrible husband that he deserved that.

I try to tell him it had pretty much nothing to do with what he was or wasn't doing. That that was my excuse not an actually reason to do ANY of what I did. That I was being a horrible person plain and flat.

He talks about before the affair, me being the one and only and how he always thought it was the same for me. That now I'm not HIS. His alone. It has shame wrapped up in it. 

He said it's hard to look at me and be proud to be my husband. 

He isn't saying this stuff to hurt me... I know. But it does all the same. 

How can I show him I am his and his alone? I have been romantic and initiating. I have talked openly about anything and everything. I don't know what else to do.

It seems like we have to wait and see if the special part of his feeling ever come back. From what I read sometimes it never comes back. That scares me.

Saturday went well. We had sex for the first time since my confession. He didn't seem to have any issues or mind movies. We have been having alot of sex everyday since Saturday. He is initiating and so am I. Is this HB? Seems not the same. Its not like my confession was a dday. Or was it all the same in his head?

It's like he is marking his territory. He has been a little more aggressive than is normal. Not that I mind AT ALL. I'm enjoying myself a lot. Just wondering what's going through his head and at times he can be a little distant.

He sometimes avoids kissing me. That's nothing new, but in the moment with us connected and I reach out for a kiss and he hesitates or pulls back (not all the time) it makes me feel dirty.

He has apologized (Not that he needed to) but said it is something he has to work through. He is still carrying anger. I'm sure the whole I don't belong to him alone thing is playing it's part too.

I miss him holding me and showering me with kisses. I miss him being super passionate (not just agressive). I've gone a long time without that. Its not the only form of sex I want, but I do miss it. The rough stuff and role play and s and m are nice and exciting, but can make me feel more like a sex object than anything. I feel attraction and lust from him during, but not much love. 

Outside of the bedroom he is romantic and loving, but when will that feeling enter the bedroom again?

**** I know I am expecting too much too early. I'm sorry. I still crave it. 

Some men have commented (in threads) that the aggressive type love making is the only way they can even do it after a dday. Is that true? Has anyone ever got that back after a mess like this? Im not saying sex is bad. Physically me and him are having the time of our life ( have been for a few years), but minus that attachment at the soul level. No matter how hard I try to reach out for it he seems to hesitate or pull back.

Can someone explain to me what might be going through his head during?? I think it's down to resentment and maybe not being willing to open up just yet. Maybe mind movies, but he says no he doesn't have mind movies.


----------



## sokillme

CynthiaDe said:


> The OW should tell her own husband. Don't have your husband do it for her. Force her hand. Tell her that if she doesn't tell him one of you will. If that happens, your husband should contact him via text and tell him. If he sends a text and want to meet with a stranger, the BH is going to want to know who your husband is and why he wants to meet with him. He's not going to be able to tell him in person before he already knows what's going on.


I like the sentiment but I don't think it is wise to believe any WS is going to give the full story. She is going lie and minimize and there will be no way to know if he got the truth. That's what WS do.


----------



## Thor

Have you read "After the Affair" by J. Spring? There are a few other similar books people on this forum recommend too.

Your intuition seems correct, that you are in the HB phase and he is marking his territory. My sense is that his long term preference is to remain married to you, but he is going through a lot of trauma right now. Your confession indeed was a d-day for him. It was also a game changer in a positive way because you have been openly honest with him.

I don't think things can ever go back they way they were. Your marriage will be an entirely new relationship after this. With the right openness and boundaries in place the trust can come back for both of you.


----------



## inging

For him, it has all just happened because you only just told him. He will flash between anger and acceptance, denial it ever happened. 
The bit you have to watch out for is depression. That it the longest phase and he may need help there. You may too as the enormity of your actions sinks in over the months and years to come. The more aggressive sex may also be some new experience with his recent FWB and of course his attempt to reconnect with you.

Neither of you will ever feel that feeling of belonging you did before. Both of you are now damaged by betrayal. That is just how it is. That is the true cost and one that follows us forever.

If it is any consolation. Even if you split up and find someone else. That blind trust you once had in your partner is never there again. We learn from our mistakes, experiences and one of the things we learn is that we can not take words at face value.

During your affair think of all the lies you told, either by omission of outright. I can guarantee your husband does. 

He can not trust your words. Think of the times you were thinking of the OM. Think of the times you left him to see the OM. All those are barbs in a wound. You chose another man over him. Why did you do that? Why was he better than your Husband? 

Why? That is the question that will haunt him. my normal answer to this is "Because she wanted to". because there is no other answer. Is there? 

You are forever changed. Your Husband had changed too and if you want to stay together you will either need to work hard and forge a new and reality based relationship. In the past affairs were "never spoken of again". I guess that works for some people. 

What ever happens. You have taken the right road to your own recovery and to the recovery of your husband. 
I wish you luck.


----------



## personofinterest

inging said:


> For him, it has all just happened because you only just told him. He will flash between anger and acceptance, denial it ever happened.
> The bit you have to watch out for is depression. That it the longest phase and he may need help there. You may too as the enormity of your actions sinks in over the months and years to come. The more aggressive sex may also be some new experience with his recent FWB and of course his attempt to reconnect with you.
> 
> Neither of you will ever feel that feeling of belonging you did before. Both of you are now damaged by betrayal. That is just how it is. That is the true cost and one that follows us forever.
> 
> If it is any consolation. Even if you split up and find someone else. That blind trust you once had in your partner is never there again. We learn from our mistakes, experiences and one of the things we learn is that we can not take words at face value.
> 
> During your affair think of all the lies you told, either by omission of outright. I can guarantee your husband does.
> 
> He can not trust your words. Think of the times you were thinking of the OM. Think of the times you left him to see the OM. All those are barbs in a wound. You chose another man over him. Why did you do that? Why was he better than your Husband?
> 
> Why? That is the question that will haunt him. my normal answer to this is "Because she wanted to". because there is no other answer. Is there?
> 
> You are forever changed. Your Husband had changed too and if you want to stay together you will either need to work hard and forge a new and reality based relationship. In the past affairs were "never spoken of again". I guess that works for some people.
> 
> What ever happens. You have taken the right road to your own recovery and to the recovery of your husband.
> I wish you luck.


It's always good to read an entire thread. He knew about the affair, but she has just confessed a lot more details. He just ended his own affair.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> Based on her texts she has no respect for her husband. If she tells it will be because she is forced too.
> 
> She would also change the facts to suit her. If I leave it up to her it wont get done or won't be done properly. I have no trust for this woman.
> 
> I know I have no right to point fingers but she is complete and utter garbage. My husband agrees.... He really chose a keeper.... bleh...
> 
> We are going to give him everything we have with a warning attached that he may want to avoid reading it all to avoid pain. Will the warning help? .... probably not, but we will do it anyways.
> 
> My husband agreed it wasn't his place to approach this guy. Someone said leave it to the b.s. to decide. That it's his right. So I told my husband that. He agreed.
> 
> 
> I'm struggling to help my husband understand my cheating had very little to do with him. He keeps asking in one form or another how he deserved that. He asked me how he was such a horrible husband that he deserved that.
> 
> I try to tell him it had pretty much nothing to do with what he was or wasn't doing. That that was my excuse not an actually reason to do ANY of what I did. That I was being a horrible person plain and flat.
> 
> He talks about before the affair, me being the one and only and how he always thought it was the same for me. That now I'm not HIS. His alone. It has shame wrapped up in it.
> 
> He said it's hard to look at me and be proud to be my husband.
> 
> He isn't saying this stuff to hurt me... I know. But it does all the same.
> 
> How can I show him I am his and his alone? I have been romantic and initiating. I have talked openly about anything and everything. I don't know what else to do.
> 
> It seems like we have to wait and see if the special part of his feeling ever come back. From what I read sometimes it never comes back. That scares me.
> 
> Saturday went well. We had sex for the first time since my confession. He didn't seem to have any issues or mind movies. We have been having alot of sex everyday since Saturday. He is initiating and so am I. Is this HB? Seems not the same. Its not like my confession was a dday. Or was it all the same in his head?
> 
> It's like he is marking his territory. He has been a little more aggressive than is normal. Not that I mind AT ALL. I'm enjoying myself a lot. Just wondering what's going through his head and at times he can be a little distant.
> 
> He sometimes avoids kissing me. That's nothing new, but in the moment with us connected and I reach out for a kiss and he hesitates or pulls back (not all the time) it makes me feel dirty.
> 
> He has apologized (Not that he needed to) but said it is something he has to work through. He is still carrying anger. I'm sure the whole I don't belong to him alone thing is playing it's part too.
> 
> I miss him holding me and showering me with kisses. I miss him being super passionate (not just agressive). I've gone a long time without that. Its not the only form of sex I want, but I do miss it. The rough stuff and role play and s and m are nice and exciting, but can make me feel more like a sex object than anything. I feel attraction and lust from him during, but not much love.
> 
> Outside of the bedroom he is romantic and loving, but when will that feeling enter the bedroom again?
> 
> **** I know I am expecting too much too early. I'm sorry. I still crave it.
> 
> Some men have commented (in threads) that the aggressive type love making is the only way they can even do it after a dday. Is that true? Has anyone ever got that back after a mess like this? Im not saying sex is bad. Physically me and him are having the time of our life ( have been for a few years), but minus that attachment at the soul level. No matter how hard I try to reach out for it he seems to hesitate or pull back.
> 
> Can someone explain to me what might be going through his head during?? I think it's down to resentment and maybe not being willing to open up just yet. Maybe mind movies, but he says no he doesn't have mind movies.


Unfortunately it's really hard to make love when that love is broken or worse not there anymore.

I think I can give you an idea how he would feel but not so much how to recover. Maybe if understand it better you can help fix it. Personally I think you guys have a very different way of thinking about a marriage. Not surprising as I think anyone who can cheat thinks differently then someone who gets cheated on. I also think your husbands affair was really just moving on, unfortunately he was entirely selfish because his AP was marred. I suspect he picked her because she was the easiest target available. I mean being a married man limited his choices. At least this is in your favor as if he had met someone he could fall in love with you would probably have no chance at this point. 

I know if it were me I would feel like I gave my all and my wife cheating would say to me that we were not meant to be. Also I would feel like my wife belonged to that other man at that point. It's also hard to see value in something that was pretty much stolen from you and given away for cheap talk and lies. He thought your sexuality was his as in his mind you gave it to him on your wedding day (I think this is something WS don't get). Once you gave it to him, it wasn't yours to give away. I am sure from you point of view you could do with it what you wanted with your body, but I don't think you understood the magnitude of what your vows meant to him. Unfortunately your actions showed that is not how you think about it. 

It's hard to be vulnerable if you have already done that once only to have the rug pulled from under you. I think some Women (especially ones who cheat) have a hard time with this, partly because of the whole (It's my body) idea in today's day and age. Which is not to say that is wrong in a certain context. Society teaches us that is wrong for a man to be possessive of his wife, especially her sexuality, however it's in his nature to feel that way. Think of it the way you probably think of your kids. I am sure you are very protective of them in an almost visceral sense. That is how most men felt about their wives, it's almost primal. There is nothing sinister about it as long as you marry the right man. _ (Arbitrary "Yes women can feel this way too" as I know someone will post this now)_ Seems like he was that way until he broke. At the time maybe you felt that was possessive or you just didn't care but now you desperately want him to feel that way again. I don't think I personally could get that back though. It's really not even under his control, some can get it back some can't. I would say this, what might help is emphasizing that you are his now. Make that a priority. As long as you are married everything about you especially your sexuality are his and his alone. Show that you delight in that fact and make a show of it. That may help. 

There would also be the feeling that history didn't really matter much to you so why should it matter now? History for people who are faithful adds to the feeling of loyalty. You really need to figure out what that didn't work that way to you by the way. This is normal part of the bonding process. At this point though your actions showed that that really had no baring in your thought process. Because of that a big part of of what was the glue that held him to you is gone. At least it would be to me, and I think he thinks like me at least a little bit. If anything that history now is just a reminder of how silly it was to invest in that only to have it mean nothing. He probably has feeling of being duped. Some people are different and it still works in the WS favor, but for me it would be a bitter reminder of time wasted. 

I think you have to accept that no matter what going forward you marriage is not going to be what it could be. That is how he feels and has accepted it. He seems to still be willing. Maybe it won't be but it can still be something different and good. If you do get there they you are truly lucky. It will be hard if your husband feels like he was doing his best. Life is like that, infidelity taints everything it touches. That is why it is so frowned on. It's like violence, I wish society would treat it like that. 

I'm sorry I can't give you any ideas but you put yourself in a big hole. I may be telling you what you already know. It really is going to come down to him. Is he willing to do IC? Maybe they can help him. 

One other idea would be to let him divorce you and have you earn back his love. Maybe in his mind if it is a new marriage it would be worth investing in. 

By the way were you and your husband your one and only before this happened?


----------



## FoolishOne

No we are not each others first. Not by a long shot. We both played the field before meeting.


----------



## brooklynAnn

Why is there the need to inform the OWBH of his wife's sins? Your H needed a **** buddy because your were a ****ty wife. Now you see the error of your ways and is trying to hold on to your marriage, you think that burning this woman would make your life better? 

Why can't you just move on with what you have and try to build on that. Leave the woman alone to deal with her life. I have a feeling if you continue to go after this woman, your husband is going to turn on you. This might not work out to your benefit.

Your husband has only had a few days to deal with all the lies that you told and secrets you kept from him all these years. He is in a very precautions state where he is still processing. If you keep going after this woman, he will see you as the woman who lied and manipulated him all these years, the vengeful woman. 

My advice would be to leave those people alone and build your own life. Get your husband to IC before you guys start MC. Your marriage is not on firm ground.


----------



## BluesPower

FoolishOne said:


> Based on her texts she has no respect for her husband. If she tells it will be because she is forced too.
> 
> She would also change the facts to suit her. If I leave it up to her it wont get done or won't be done properly. I have no trust for this woman.
> 
> I know I have no right to point fingers but she is complete and utter garbage. My husband agrees.... He really chose a keeper.... bleh...
> 
> We are going to give him everything we have with a warning attached that he may want to avoid reading it all to avoid pain. Will the warning help? .... probably not, but we will do it anyways.
> 
> My husband agreed it wasn't his place to approach this guy. Someone said leave it to the b.s. to decide. That it's his right. So I told my husband that. He agreed.
> 
> I'm struggling to help my husband understand my cheating had very little to do with him. He keeps asking in one form or another how he deserved that. He asked me how he was such a horrible husband that he deserved that.I try to tell him it had pretty much nothing to do with what he was or wasn't doing. That that was my excuse not an actually reason to do ANY of what I did. That I was being a horrible person plain and flat.
> 
> He talks about before the affair, me being the one and only and how he always thought it was the same for me. That now I'm not HIS. His alone. It has shame wrapped up in it.
> 
> He said it's hard to look at me and be proud to be my husband.
> 
> He isn't saying this stuff to hurt me... I know. But it does all the same.
> 
> How can I show him I am his and his alone? I have been romantic and initiating. I have talked openly about anything and everything. I don't know what else to do.
> It seems like we have to wait and see if the special part of his feeling ever come back. From what I read sometimes it never comes back. That scares me.
> 
> Saturday went well. We had sex for the first time since my confession. He didn't seem to have any issues or mind movies. We have been having alot of sex everyday since Saturday. He is initiating and so am I. Is this HB? Seems not the same. Its not like my confession was a dday. Or was it all the same in his head?
> 
> It's like he is marking his territory. He has been a little more aggressive than is normal. Not that I mind AT ALL. I'm enjoying myself a lot. Just wondering what's going through his head and at times he can be a little distant.
> 
> He sometimes avoids kissing me. That's nothing new, but in the moment with us connected and I reach out for a kiss and he hesitates or pulls back (not all the time) it makes me feel dirty.
> 
> He has apologized (Not that he needed to) but said it is something he has to work through. He is still carrying anger. I'm sure the whole I don't belong to him alone thing is playing it's part too.
> 
> I miss him holding me and showering me with kisses. I miss him being super passionate (not just agressive). I've gone a long time without that. Its not the only form of sex I want, but I do miss it. The rough stuff and role play and s and m are nice and exciting, but can make me feel more like a sex object than anything. I feel attraction and lust from him during, but not much love.
> 
> Outside of the bedroom he is romantic and loving, but when will that feeling enter the bedroom again?
> 
> **** I know I am expecting too much too early. I'm sorry. I still crave it.
> 
> Some men have commented (in threads) that the aggressive type love making is the only way they can even do it after a dday. Is that true? Has anyone ever got that back after a mess like this? Im not saying sex is bad. Physically me and him are having the time of our life ( have been for a few years), but minus that attachment at the soul level. No matter how hard I try to reach out for it he seems to hesitate or pull back.
> 
> Can someone explain to me what might be going through his head during?? I think it's down to resentment and maybe not being willing to open up just yet. Maybe mind movies, but he says no he doesn't have mind movies.


Wow, there is a lot here.

So the first one:


> I'm struggling to help my husband understand my cheating had very little to do with him. He keeps asking in one form or another how he deserved that. He asked me how he was such a horrible husband that he deserved that.


I have to tell you, if you figure this out let us know. For me, and for most men, this one will eat at him. Eventually, he will understand that it really did not have anything to do with him. It was your mindset, it was your selfishness, it was your ****ty choices that put you there. 

All, you can do with this is continue to give him the same answer, THE SAME ANSWER EVERY TIME, that it really had nothing to do with him. This is hard to accept but it is usually the truth. Over time he will understand. Consistency with your answers is your best way to help him with this. 

For the second one:


> He talks about before the affair, me being the one and only and how he always thought it was the same for me. That now I'm not HIS. His alone. It has shame wrapped up in it.
> 
> He said it's hard to look at me and be proud to be my husband.
> 
> He isn't saying this stuff to hurt me... I know. But it does all the same.
> 
> How can I show him I am his and his alone? I have been romantic and initiating. I have talked openly about anything and everything. I don't know what else to do.
> It seems like we have to wait and see if the special part of his feeling ever come back. From what I read sometimes it never comes back. That scares me.


You know, I am sorry to say that this never really comes back. Now, the bright side is that it is possible to get to a place where the feelings are actually better, for some people, but the specialness that you gave away is gone. I know you don't really want to here that, but you also know that you need to here the truth. 

What I am saying is the truth.

Next one:


> Saturday went well. We had sex for the first time since my confession. He didn't seem to have any issues or mind movies. We have been having a lot of sex everyday since Saturday. He is initiating and so am I. Is this HB? Seems not the same. Its not like my confession was a D-day. Or was it all the same in his head?


Look, this is no doubt hysterical bonding. And the aggression is part of the process. And he is absolutely marking his territory. 

Will the gentle, passionate sex ever come back, it is hard to say. You see, what is happening with your H right now is that he is doing and feeling things that he should have done and felt after D-Day. However, your manipulation and continuing the affair stopped that process. 

So now, EVERYTHING you are seeing, you would have seen 3 years ago if you had been honest and upfront from the beginning. This is something that you have to keep in mind. 

And the last big point:


> Can someone explain to me what might be going through his head during?? I think it's down to resentment and maybe not being willing to open up just yet. Maybe mind movies, but he says no he doesn't have mind movies.


This and the line about expecting too much so soon. First, you are expecting too much, too soon. See, you had the affair, you knew you were having it, you justified it. Then you got caught, you lied and manipulated and rug swept it. And you continued the affair after D-Day. So what is that amount of time, 3 - 4 years. 

Yes your H knew about your affair after you got caught, and after her had the PI follow you, but after that, his healing STOPPED dead in its tracks. 

For you, you have had years to deal with what you have done, for him, it is not like that. When you had the balls to FULLY confess, that is when the clock started for him. It has been running for what, a month? 

This time dilatation that you are dealing with, you have to keep it in the forefront of your mind and remember, for him, this is just starting.

BTW, he is lying about the mind movies, everyone has them. He just does not want to admit it. 

The reason that he pulls back from you is that he does not trust you, he is afraid to love you like he did, he is afraid of getting hurt.

These are things that you are going to have to understand and deal with. I think overall you are doing a good job. 

Keep doing, don't get in a hurry and let go of the outcome because you are not in charge of that. All you can to is all you can do. 

Keep it up...


----------



## FoolishOne

brooklynAnn said:


> Why is there the need to inform the OWBH of his wife's sins? Your H needed a **** buddy because your were a ****ty wife. Now you see the error of your ways and is trying to hold on to your marriage, you think that burning this woman would make your life better?
> 
> Why can't you just move on with what you have and try to build on that. Leave the woman alone to deal with her life. I have a feeling if you continue to go after this woman, your husband is going to turn on you. This might not work out to your benefit.
> 
> Your husband has only had a few days to deal with all the lies that you told and secrets you kept from him all these years. He is in a very precautions state where he is still processing. If you keep going after this woman, he will see you as the woman who lied and manipulated him all these years, the vengeful woman.
> 
> My advice would be to leave those people alone and build your own life. Get your husband to IC before you guys start MC. Your marriage is not on firm ground.


Because it's what's right? Isn't what this is all about? So it's ok for me to let her husband have children with her and get deeper with a woman who seems to enjoy "cucking" him? 

He is headed for disaster. We could inform him of the massive hole he is walking into or silently watch as he falls in. I feel telling is the moral reason. 

Yes. Part of it is my hatred for her. But does that cancel out the good reasons to tell?

Didn't my husband deserve to be told? How is it different NOW for her husband?


----------



## x598

FoolishOne said:


> Because it's what's right? Isn't what this is all about? So it's ok for me to let her husband have children with her and get deeper with a woman who seems to enjoy "cucking" him?
> 
> He is headed for disaster. We could inform him of the massive hole he is walking into or silently watch as he falls in. I feel telling is the moral reason.
> 
> Yes. Part of it is my hatred for her. But does that cancel out the good reasons to tell?
> 
> Didn't my husband deserve to be told? How is it different NOW for her husband?


this isnt about whats "fair". this isn't about "getting even". your hatred towards her is misplaced......as you apparently don't seem to get youre in this position because of YOUR actions....not hers.


you want to focus on this because it takes away from your actions.

LET IT GO. 


you want to build trust and closeness back with your husband? demonstrate it through your actions and treatment of him and your marriage everyday. then.....maybe....in a few YEARs....he will be in a good enough place to fully trust and open up to you. maybe.


----------



## TDSC60

Bottom line is that your husband warned you early on that your friendship with OM made him uncomfortable and you blew him off.

When he caught you after it became a PA, you lied and rugswept and tried to make him at fault for not just forgetting about it and move on.

Your husband was desperate to save the marriage but needed the truth. So he had a PI follow you after DDay and caught you continuing the affair. At that point he knew that you definitely chose OM over him, the marriage, and the family. He decided that since you had made it an open marriage he would hang on until the youngest was in college and then divorce. Sounds like maybe 1.5 years after that he made the stupid decision to hook up with a married woman. 

Now you have changed and want your husband, marriage, and family back. In his mind (PI proof) you never stopped the affair and the only way he could go on with his life was to detach from you. To live his life in this new open marriage that you created until he could get the kids out on their own. He did not speak to you about this because you had shown him that talking to you was a waste of time and effort.

Your actions during the affair and immediately after DDay have taught him that your words are not to be trusted. That you will lie and deceive to get what you want. He has been living with this truth for several years. It will be hard for him to accept what you say now as the truth. 

I am not saying this to hurt you or make you feel hopeless. I just want to make you aware that your husband will listen to you and discuss thing with you. But in the back of his mind there is still a little voice that keeps reminding him that he accepted what you told him multiple times over the past few years and it was all a lie. For him to avoid getting torn apart again, he will proceed with caution and see if your actions over time help him reinvest in the marriage. 

It will be a long time before he is able to allow you into his heart where you will be able to trash it again.

But keep talking. Keep being honest with each other. Maybe you can form a new marriage from the ashes of the old.


----------



## BluesPower

FoolishOne said:


> Because it's what's right? Isn't what this is all about? So it's ok for me to let her husband have children with her and get deeper with a woman who seems to enjoy "cucking" him?
> 
> He is headed for disaster. We could inform him of the massive hole he is walking into or silently watch as he falls in. I feel telling is the moral reason.
> 
> Yes. Part of it is my hatred for her. But does that cancel out the good reasons to tell?
> 
> Didn't my husband deserve to be told? How is it different NOW for her husband?


 @FoolishOne, you are completely and totally correct about this. 

He needs to be informed. It is the moral thing to do. I really don't understand how anyone could say different.


----------



## FoolishOne

x598 said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's what's right? Isn't what this is all about? So it's ok for me to let her husband have children with her and get deeper with a woman who seems to enjoy "cucking" him?
> 
> He is headed for disaster. We could inform him of the massive hole he is walking into or silently watch as he falls in. I feel telling is the moral reason.
> 
> Yes. Part of it is my hatred for her. But does that cancel out the good reasons to tell?
> 
> Didn't my husband deserve to be told? How is it different NOW for her husband?
> 
> 
> 
> this isnt about whats "fair". this isn't about "getting even". your hatred towards her is misplaced......as you apparently don't seem to get youre in this position because of YOUR actions....not hers.
> 
> 
> you want to focus on this because it takes away from your actions.
> 
> LET IT GO.
> 
> 
> you want to build trust and closeness back with your husband? demonstrate it through your actions and treatment of him and your marriage everyday. then.....maybe....in a few YEARs....he will be in a good enough place to fully trust and open up to you. maybe.
Click to expand...

People asked so I told what we planned. Now people are telling me I SHOULDN'T inform the husband.

And NOW people are telling me I am focusing on her. I am NOT.

I will ALWAYS hate her. She slept with my husband. She got off on comparing herself to me. I detest her. Does it effect my crimes against our marriage?... Not one bit. This isn't a contest. And I'm not hiding behind his affair.

She isn't the problem between me and my husband. I AM NOT FOCUSING on her. Its brought up here so I adress the issue. 

I am not focusing on her more than needed. 99 out of a hundred talks between my husband and me are about my affair or where we are at in our relationship. Not her. I barely talk about her at all with my husband.

The sooner we can inform the husband and cut her completely out of our life and talks the better.

We are sending the email and Facebook message tomorrow. After that whatever happens between them is their own business.

I was just trying to do the right thing. Now everyone is acting like I'm a selfish ***** for trying to do what a few dozen people have told me is the right thing.

Honestly I would rather not deal with it at all. But right is right. 

My husband deserved to be told of my betrayal while I was doing it. How is it any different for this obs? 

Am I wrong? My husband doesn't seem to mind these talks much anyways. And HE is the one I'm taking the lead from... NOT anyone here. 

It really seems like I'm getting super mixed responses and answers here.

I have people PMing me that I should make sure this affair is dead. That i shouldn't trust my husband right now. Others telling me I should watch out because affairs are hard to stop. Then others telling me to let it go!!

Well what ****ing advice should I follow?

That's right my husband. He wants to inform. So that's what we are doing. 

So guess what. No more talking about his affair here. I get it. I'll shut up.


----------



## brooklynAnn

FoolishOne said:


> Because it's what's right? Isn't what this is all about? So it's ok for me to let her husband have children with her and get deeper with a woman who seems to enjoy "cucking" him?
> 
> He is headed for disaster. We could inform him of the massive hole he is walking into or silently watch as he falls in. I feel telling is the moral reason.
> 
> Yes. Part of it is my hatred for her. But does that cancel out the good reasons to tell?
> 
> Didn't my husband deserve to be told? How is it different NOW for her husband?


I think you should focus on your marriage. Forget that woman and her husband. Don't try to put her down and make her a bad person to your husband. You a walking a fine line because you might get the opposite of what you want.

What if her husband leaves her, now she is available to go after your husband. He might see her as being the wronged party by you going after her and destroying her life. This might backlash on you and he might end up wanting to protect her. You have to be careful here. 

Instead of putting energy into this, put that energy into yourself. Work on you, work on your marriage.


----------



## FoolishOne

TDSC60 said:


> Bottom line is that your husband warned you early on that your friendship with OM made him uncomfortable and you blew him off.
> 
> When he caught you after it became a PA, you lied and rugswept and tried to make him at fault for not just forgetting about it and move on.
> 
> Your husband was desperate to save the marriage but needed the truth. So he had a PI follow you after DDay and caught you continuing the affair. At that point he knew that you definitely chose OM over him, the marriage, and the family. He decided that since you had made it an open marriage he would hang on until the youngest was in college and then divorce. Sounds like maybe 1.5 years after that he made the stupid decision to hook up with a married woman.
> 
> Now you have changed and want your husband, marriage, and family back. In his mind (PI proof) you never stopped the affair and the only way he could go on with his life was to detach from you. To live his life in this new open marriage that you created until he could get the kids out on their own. He did not speak to you about this because you had shown him that talking to you was a waste of time and effort.
> 
> Your actions during the affair and immediately after DDay have taught him that your words are not to be trusted. That you will lie and deceive to get what you want. He has been living with this truth for several years. It will be hard for him to accept what you say now as the truth.
> 
> I am not saying this to hurt you or make you feel hopeless. I just want to make you aware that your husband will listen to you and discuss thing with you. But in the back of his mind there is still a little voice that keeps reminding him that he accepted what you told him multiple times over the past few years and it was all a lie. For him to avoid getting torn apart again, he will proceed with caution and see if your actions over time help him reinvest in the marriage.
> 
> It will be a long time before he is able to allow you into his heart where you will be able to trash it again.
> 
> But keep talking. Keep being honest with each other. Maybe you can form a new marriage from the ashes of the old.


Thank you. I understand that, but your words help. I know I have a lot of work to do. I have to let him feel secure in our relationship. Its not going to happen overnight. It might never happen.

It's hard not to try moving a hundred miles an hour. I know it's not on my timeline. Its his. I have to be patient.


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> Unfortunately it's really hard to make love when that love is broken or worse not there anymore.
> 
> I think I can give you an idea how he would feel but not so much how to recover. Maybe if understand it better you can help fix it. Personally I think you guys have a very different way of thinking about a marriage. Not surprising as I think anyone who can cheat thinks differently then someone who gets cheated on. I also think your husbands affair was really just moving on, unfortunately he was entirely selfish because his AP was marred. I suspect he picked her because she was the easiest target available. I mean being a married man limited his choices. At least this is in your favor as if he had met someone he could fall in love with you would probably have no chance at this point.
> 
> I know if it were me I would feel like I gave my all and my wife cheating would say to me that we were not meant to be. Also I would feel like my wife belonged to that other man at that point. It's also hard to see value in something that was pretty much stolen from you and given away for cheap talk and lies. He thought your sexuality was his as in his mind you gave it to him on your wedding day (I think this is something WS don't get). Once you gave it to him, it wasn't yours to give away. I am sure from you point of view you could do with it what you wanted with your body, but I don't think you understood the magnitude of what your vows meant to him. Unfortunately your actions showed that is not how you think about it.
> 
> It's hard to be vulnerable if you have already done that once only to have the rug pulled from under you. I think some Women (especially ones who cheat) have a hard time with this, partly because of the whole (It's my body) idea in today's day and age. Which is not to say that is wrong in a certain context. Society teaches us that is wrong for a man to be possessive of his wife, especially her sexuality, however it's in his nature to feel that way. Think of it the way you probably think of your kids. I am sure you are very protective of them in an almost visceral sense. That is how most men felt about their wives, it's almost primal. There is nothing sinister about it as long as you marry the right man. _ (Arbitrary "Yes women can feel this way too" as I know someone will post this now)_ Seems like he was that way until he broke. At the time maybe you felt that was possessive or you just didn't care but now you desperately want him to feel that way again. I don't think I personally could get that back though. It's really not even under his control, some can get it back some can't. I would say this, what might help is emphasizing that you are his now. Make that a priority. As long as you are married everything about you especially your sexuality are his and his alone. Show that you delight in that fact and make a show of it. That may help.
> 
> There would also be the feeling that history didn't really matter much to you so why should it matter now? History for people who are faithful adds to the feeling of loyalty. You really need to figure out what that didn't work that way to you by the way. This is normal part of the bonding process. At this point though your actions showed that that really had no baring in your thought process. Because of that a big part of of what was the glue that held him to you is gone. At least it would be to me, and I think he thinks like me at least a little bit. If anything that history now is just a reminder of how silly it was to invest in that only to have it mean nothing. He probably has feeling of being duped. Some people are different and it still works in the WS favor, but for me it would be a bitter reminder of time wasted.
> 
> I think you have to accept that no matter what going forward you marriage is not going to be what it could be. That is how he feels and has accepted it. He seems to still be willing. Maybe it won't be but it can still be something different and good. If you do get there they you are truly lucky. It will be hard if your husband feels like he was doing his best. Life is like that, infidelity taints everything it touches. That is why it is so frowned on. It's like violence, I wish society would treat it like that.
> 
> I'm sorry I can't give you any ideas but you put yourself in a big hole. I may be telling you what you already know. It really is going to come down to him. Is he willing to do IC? Maybe they can help him.
> 
> One other idea would be to let him divorce you and have you earn back his love. Maybe in his mind if it is a new marriage it would be worth investing in.
> 
> By the way were you and your husband your one and only before this happened?


Thank you. I reread that whole post. It helps me understand better. 

The part about making sure he knows I am his and his alone and my sexuality is his alone and that I delight at the fact. 

I am going to do better at that. I DO delight at being HIS. I really do. I need to find ways to show it.


----------



## FoolishOne

brooklynAnn said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's what's right? Isn't what this is all about? So it's ok for me to let her husband have children with her and get deeper with a woman who seems to enjoy "cucking" him?
> 
> He is headed for disaster. We could inform him of the massive hole he is walking into or silently watch as he falls in. I feel telling is the moral reason.
> 
> Yes. Part of it is my hatred for her. But does that cancel out the good reasons to tell?
> 
> Didn't my husband deserve to be told? How is it different NOW for her husband?
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should focus on your marriage. Forget that woman and her husband. Don't try to put her down and make her a bad person to your husband. You a walking a fine line because you might get the opposite of what you want.
> 
> What if her husband leaves her, now she is available to go after your husband. He might see her as being the wronged party by you going after her and destroying her life. This might backlash on you and he might end up wanting to protect her. You have to be careful here.
> 
> Instead of putting energy into this, put that energy into yourself. Work on you, work on your marriage.
Click to expand...

People need to really read the whole thread. 

My husband doesn't give a **** about her. He calls her the *****. That's what he thought of her. He thought of her as exactly the same type of person as what he thought I was like in my affair. It was just sex for him.

Second. If her being away from her husband and chasing mine is enough to take my husband away. Then so be it. Its my own fault. But letting her husband stay in the dark as a power play or move to secure my own marriage..... kinda shifty and dirty isn't it?

There are upsides and downsides to whatever WE do. So we just choose the moral option. WE. WE. WE. 

Let me make it obvious. WE will decide how to do this. I AM NOT running the ship. Just the captains first mate.


----------



## sokillme

brooklynAnn said:


> Why is there the need to inform the OWBH of his wife's sins? Your H needed a **** buddy because your were a ****ty wife. Now you see the error of your ways and is trying to hold on to your marriage, you think that burning this woman would make your life better?
> 
> Why can't you just move on with what you have and try to build on that. Leave the woman alone to deal with her life. I have a feeling if you continue to go after this woman, your husband is going to turn on you. This might not work out to your benefit.
> 
> Your husband has only had a few days to deal with all the lies that you told and secrets you kept from him all these years. He is in a very precautions state where he is still processing. If you keep going after this woman, he will see you as the woman who lied and manipulated him all these years, the vengeful woman.
> 
> My advice would be to leave those people alone and build your own life. Get your husband to IC before you guys start MC. Your marriage is not on firm ground.


There is a moral need to do so. You don't see that? Generally when you do wrong to people which her husband was a part of you should at least do what you can to set it right. It's called penance. I think he she should let the husband know (not in person) and then leave it at that.


----------



## sokillme

Personally I think the people saying don't tell are giving horrible advice. You can't build a foundation on a moral framework when you abdicate your moral responsibility to your fellow human being. The choice to tell sets a tone for how there whole relationship and who they are going to be as people is going forward. No more secrets, no more covering up for themselves. Living accountable to themselves and others. That is what you want and that is how they will succeed in the marriage and in life. There has been too much sneaking around, using people, lying, doing what is expedient, it's a big part of why they are here. Time to be adults and do the right thing, in everything.


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> Personally I think the people saying DON'T tell are giving horrible advice. You can't build a foundation on a moral framework when you abdicate your moral responsibility to your fellow human being. The choice to tell sets a tone for how there whole relationship and who they are going to be as people is going forward. No more secrets, no more covering up for themselves. Living accountable to themselves and others. That is what you want and that is how they will succeed in the marriage and in life.  There has been too much sneaking around, using people, lying, doing what is expedient, it's a big part of why they are here. Time to be adults and do the right thing, in everything.


I fixed your post. Pretty sure you meant don't.

And me and my husband agree. Let's do this right. Right is right wrong is wrong. **** the consequences.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> People asked so I told what we planned. Now people are telling me I SHOULDN'T inform the husband.
> 
> And NOW people are telling me I am focusing on her. I am NOT.
> 
> I will ALWAYS hate her. She slept with my husband. She got off on comparing herself to me. I detest her. Does it effect my crimes against our marriage?... Not one bit. This isn't a contest. And I'm not hiding behind his affair.
> 
> She isn't the problem between me and my husband. I AM NOT FOCUSING on her. Its brought up here so I adress the issue.
> 
> I am not focusing on her more than needed. 99 out of a hundred talks between my husband and me are about my affair or where we are at in our relationship. Not her. I barely talk about her at all with my husband.
> 
> The sooner we can inform the husband and cut her completely out of our life and talks the better.
> 
> We are sending the email and Facebook message tomorrow. After that whatever happens between them is their own business.
> 
> I was just trying to do the right thing. Now everyone is acting like I'm a selfish ***** for trying to do what a few dozen people have told me is the right thing.
> 
> Honestly I would rather not deal with it at all. But right is right.
> 
> My husband deserved to be told of my betrayal while I was doing it. How is it any different for this obs?
> 
> Am I wrong? My husband doesn't seem to mind these talks much anyways. And HE is the one I'm taking the lead from... NOT anyone here.
> 
> It really seems like I'm getting super mixed responses and answers here.
> 
> I have people PMing me that I should make sure this affair is dead. That i shouldn't trust my husband right now. Others telling me I should watch out because affairs are hard to stop. Then others telling me to let it go!!
> 
> Well what ****ing advice should I follow?
> 
> That's right my husband. He wants to inform. So that's what we are doing.
> 
> So guess what. No more talking about his affair here. I get it. I'll shut up.


It's a message board you are going to get different responses. You have to decide what to follow. Don't take it personal. Besides you husband is going to tell I think, there is nothing you can do about it. As for not trusting the affair is over, that seems like good advice to me. I stay trust but verify. Your husband is a cheater now, cheaters lie and they are very good at it.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> I fixed your post. Pretty sure you meant don't.
> 
> And me and my husband agree. Let's do this right. Right is right wrong is wrong. **** the consequences.


Yes I fixed it too.


----------



## TDSC60

FoolishOne said:


> People need to really read the whole thread.
> 
> My husband doesn't give a **** about her. He calls her the *****. That's what he thought of her. He thought of her as exactly the same type of person as what he thought I was like in my affair. It was just sex for him.
> I'm sure he did think of you and the OW as sisters of the same type. So in that regard, it did have a notion of revenge attached. But I think his deeper reasons for this was to regain his self worth as a desirable man. His masculinity was destroyed by your affair. He was taking it back. Too bad he chose a married woman. That was stupid of him. Both his and your affairs are linked and both have to be addressed. Even though he may have never had an affair if you had not done so first, his affair is still on him 100%. Just as yours is on you 100%.
> 
> Second. If her being away from her husband and chasing mine is enough to take my husband away. Then so be it. Its my own fault. But letting her husband stay in the dark as a power play or move to secure my own marriage..... kinda shifty and dirty isn't it?
> Given what your husband says his affair was all about and how he said he feels about OW, I don't see telling the other BS as revenge or a play for power. Actually the fate of your marriage is not associated with if you do or do not tell the other BS. I think the consensus is to tell him. Just not in person. Unless he asks for a meeting.
> 
> 
> There are upsides and downsides to whatever WE do. So we just choose the moral option. WE. WE. WE.
> 
> Let me make it obvious. WE will decide how to do this. I AM NOT running the ship. Just the captains first mate.
> This is a great attitude to have moving forward.
> You were the captain of the ship for 6 years and did not tell him or care about his opinion while you battered the ship against the rocks time after time and eventually sunk it. It is his turn to drive the boat now that you are trying to salvage what's left. At least he is talking to you about what course to take and how to do it.


----------



## Tex X

The BH deserves to know, and he deserves to hear it from her AP (your husband). Presumably the OWBH did nothing wrong that we know of, so the poor bastard is living a lie right now. Your husband also needs this closure for his own healing.


----------



## Openminded

Many people consider kissing to be equal to or even more intimate than sex. They can detach during sex but it's more difficult to detach during kissing. 

As for telling the OW's husband, yes, he should know.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

FoolishOne said:


> People need to really read the whole thread.
> 
> My husband doesn't give a **** about her. He calls her the *****. That's what he thought of her. He thought of her as exactly the same type of person as what he thought I was like in my affair. It was just sex for him.
> 
> Second. If her being away from her husband and chasing mine is enough to take my husband away. Then so be it. Its my own fault. But letting her husband stay in the dark as a power play or move to secure my own marriage..... kinda shifty and dirty isn't it?
> 
> There are upsides and downsides to whatever WE do. So we just choose the moral option. WE. WE. WE.
> 
> Let me make it obvious. WE will decide how to do this. I AM NOT running the ship. Just the captains first mate.


I did not agree with that poster either, however, I think it would be a good idea to be respectful to people who are taking time out of their day to try to give you advice and try to help you see if your marriage can get back on the right track.

There is never any harm in politely disagreeing.

I can imagine you are in a world of pain and living a nightmare, but lashing out at others here is not cool.
----------

I was glad to see you show some emotion about his affair. Anger, hate, rage, name calling. It is understandable.

He calls the other woman a *****.

I have no doubt he does.

However, I will let you know there is a poster on here a few months ago who called his affair partner that and had hate and venom towards her in his thread, further in the thread, turns out he was "in love" with her and was close to leaving his wife for her. 

Your husband was in an affair for 1 year.

That is more then just sex. 

I am not saying any of this to be hurtful, I am trying to warn you.

The other poster was trying to warn you too.


----------



## personofinterest

In the OPs defense, shes taken a whole lot of proxy hate in her thread and kept coming back.

Everyone has a breaking point, even recovering WS.


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## brooklynAnn

What I am saying is to becareful of what your husnand says to you. He will say one thing to you but is feeling something quite differently. His emotions can be very conflicting as he goes from day to day. He is going from guilt to anger and everthing in between. So, him calling her name is not very truthful of what he feels.

That's why I am saying work on the marriage than focus on the other couple. Let them deal with their own issues. 

Normally, I would say scorch the earth with the other woman but this marriage is fragile and negative things will only create more harm in it.


----------



## inging

personofinterest said:


> It's always good to read an entire thread. He knew about the affair, but she has just confessed a lot more details. He just ended his own affair.


I did read the entire thread. He knew the affair was ongoing, he knew the extend of it because he hired a PI not because she told him. 
The confession was the first honesty he had encountered for some time. All the rest was lies and gaslighting.

As to his affair.. Nope. .She had a BF. he was simply moving on in this new reality she had created. Like most people who cheat she had devalued her partner to the point where it was inconceivable that he would pick up a new partner

We are only seeing one side here.


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## FoolishOne

Everything I have seen in his texts and emails to her points to him stringing her along. He made jokes about her to his friends (yes a few of his friends knew. I can't even look them in the face. My feeling are mixed on his friends knowing.) in texts. He has been completely open and honest about the affair and gone out of his way to show me proof of its depths.

Did he enjoy it.. yes. He admits it. Did he love her. No.

It always came back to sex for him. Not I love you. Your the woman of my dreams. No.

It was yada yada yada. Sure sure sure. Ok. I'm happy you feel that way. I miss you too. Want to ****? Always back to sex.

My husband was distant. It falls in line with a lot of what I have read about married men stringing along their other women. Just stroke their ego and push for sex. 

I honestly don't get how she could be treated so low and cheap by my husband and still want more! 

It's not like they where going on dates. He wasn't buying her flowers. Wasn't writing poetry. He didn't have to. 

He has commented that he really didn't have to do ANY work at all. That's why the affair was so easy to continue. He just scooped up any sex given and stroked her ego a bit and she ate it up. He sure enjoyed her ego stroking as well. The way he talks about it makes me believe bluespower was right. It was about his manhood. His ego. About being desirable and considered a proficient lover. I can see why he would get that from her, and why he couldn't get that from me at that time no matter how well we where doing in the bedroom. She worshiped him. He enjoyed the worship.

I really don't think he is lying. I have offered to divorce amicably taking nothing. I have asked if he wants an open marriage. (I don't. Just wanted to know what he thought.) He said no.... and no. 

I'm choosing to believe his words and there is a good amount of evidence to back it up. 

Besides I don't think my husband is stupid enough to leave one cheater for another. He said it himself. He never considered her marriage material. Far from it. He actually called her a wet hole. Any semi attractive or better woman would have been good enough.

My husband has also stated that if he divorces me marriage is off the table for him. He didn't want that. He has/had very little faith in the institution of marriage.

He was red pill. The game. All women are ****s. Why would he ever think a woman capable of marriage under those circumstances?

Also I AM sorry for snapping at you guys. I got frustrated. It can be very frustrating to have people read too far onto what I wrote or put words in my mouth. I should show patience and control. Im sorry. You guys are just trying to help.


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## FieryHairedLady

Thanks for the update. The apoligy was nice.

I hope you and your hubby can patch it up and work toward a new marriage. 

I know you are going thru hell. 

Hang in there.

One day at a time.


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## sokillme

Tex X said:


> The BH deserves to know, and he deserves to hear it from her AP (your husband). Presumably the OWBH did nothing wrong that we know of, so the poor bastard is living a lie right now. Your husband also needs this closure for his own healing.


I personally wouldn't want to hear it from the AP. First of all without knowing all the facts I would be quick to assume an ulterior motive. Besides that it would seem he was rubbing my face it it. 

"Hey I ****ed your wife, Sorry. By the way she is very disrespectful to you too." No **** Sherlock what do you want a metal? 

Nah let FoolishOne tell him, her husband has done enough damage and should stay out of it. He doesn't deserve to make him self better by feeling he is doing the honorable thing. He should take his guilt like a man just like this women's husband will have to take the pain he contributed to. 

Not saying the husband shouldn't be told, but this is not a way for F1's husband to clear his conscience. Some things are so bad there is no clearing consciences ever, everyone has to live with. If the victims do, it's only fair that the guilty do too. Do the crime do the time.

I say **** her husband's closure, he doesn't deserve it.


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## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> I honestly don't get how she could be treated so low and cheap by my husband and still want more!
> 
> It's not like they where going on dates. He wasn't buying her flowers. Wasn't writing poetry. He didn't have to.


Your AP was doing this stuff? Through the whole affair? Poems? Flowers? You were going on dates? Like out to places where you were proud to be seen together?

Your AP wasn't stroking his ego? No? He had a great love for you? He loved you so much but never really pressured you to leave your husband because after all you were soulmates right? That's what people do with soulmates right they hide them and sneak around with them. 

I think you need to be a little more introspective and read what you wrote there and that think about who you were when you were with your AP.

I also don't believe your husband will be Redpill forever even if you don't make it. That's because Redpill is a lie. There are plenty of good women out there. I know them, they are my wife, sisters, my friend's wives, my mother and step-mother, people I work with who don't cheat. They are not purely attracted to frame and muscles. You don't have to emotionally manipulate them to get them to be good to you. You just have to treat them right and show some masculine strength. Redpill is a very good system for attracting very ****ty women. Your husband was a good guy, he will find his worth.


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## Rubix Cubed

FoolishOne said:


> I honestly don't get how she could be treated so low and cheap by my husband and still want more!


 You should understand it completely. You've walked in her shoes. Your AP did the same as your husband, you just don't know the details from his pov, like what he told his friends about you. I'm surprised you made that statement because you are by far the most self-aware WW that I've seen on these forums. You are making the right decisions and whatever the outcome you will be a better person in the long run.


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## FoolishOne

I just wrote an enraged post. Deleted.


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## sokillme

Rubix Cubed said:


> You should understand it completely. You've walked in her shoes. Your AP did the same as your husband, you just don't know the details from his pov, like what he told his friends about you. I'm surprised you made that statement because you are by far the most self-aware WW that I've seen on these forums. You are making the right decisions and whatever the outcome you will be a better person in the long run.


I am not surprised. This is not me picking on F1 I just think, this right here, shows kind of how this all happens. It's like a disconnect. Again I think F1 is really trying and learning and growing. She is on her way but it's just not intuitive nor is it to any WS to think that what F1 described as her husbands affair and affair partner mirrors exactly who she was when she was in her affair. This is what every affair really is. It's not some great love affair (not that she thinks it is now) but it isn't even love. Usually it's about at least one person getting off and using someone to do it. Most of the time both people are. And by getting off I don't just mean sex, a lot of time it's emotional too. But it's not love, at it base, it's two people just jerking each other off like emotional or sexual meth addicts. 

The biggest tell to me is that they don't want more. It's very rare that people in an affair break up their marriage on their own and leave for the other person. Why is that? If you really found the love or your life wouldn't you want to spend your whole life with them? Would you be content to share them with someone else like people in affairs usually do? That is because it't not real, it doesn't have the stuff to be real. The two people may not outwardly acknowledge it but at least passively they do by staying in their marriages. At the end of the day the great love they feel is not enough to get them to move out of the house.

@FoolishOne I know this post is probably painful to read but I want to point something else out to you that may help you understand your husband's pain.



> I honestly don't get how she could be treated so low and cheap by my husband and still want more!


Your husband probably felt this every day that you went back to your AP. Except he also felt like he treated you SO MUCH better, and had tried to build a life with you. That is very very hard. It's like an investment that someone else gets the spoils from. 

You need to build up your own personal value and then when you give yourself to him it will really say something. It needs to be "I am worth something and no one will ever get my love or sexuality again unless they are really of quality" - (not just someone who makes me feel good) then - I am giving that to you because you are the best man I know.


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## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> I just wrote an enraged post. Deleted.


I see it was to me, as I have a reply from you. 

I think you should write it again, I can take it. Better for you to be mad and hash it out.


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't get how she could be treated so low and cheap by my husband and still want more!
> 
> It's not like they where going on dates. He wasn't buying her flowers. Wasn't writing poetry. He didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> Your AP was doing this stuff? Through the whole affair? Poems? Flowers? You were going on dates? Like out to places where you were proud to be seen together?
> 
> Your AP wasn't stroking his ego? No? He had a great love for you? He loved you so much but never really pressured you to leave your husband because after all you were soulmates right? That's what people do with soulmates right they hide them and sneak around with them.
> 
> I think you need to be a little more introspective and read what you wrote there and that think about who you were when you were with your AP.
> .
Click to expand...

!

That's unfair and you know it.

Did I EVER SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT?!!!

I am absolutely shocked you could jump from me saying what I said to me meaning what you just wrote. It sickens me.

Yes my ap was playing the same game my husband was. He Just put a lot more effort in.

Yes he did buy me flowers. And presents. He wrote me a song (it's was horrible by the way). He texted me at all hours of the day. We did go on a few dates. And yes. We had to be careful to never be seen. He would say he loved me all the time.

Does that make what I did better. Or me any less of a fool. NO. It was still two ego stroking ****wits. I KNOW THAT.

I fed on bread crumbs and lies just the same as her. My bread crumbs where bigger. Thats all.

I still threw away my husband. Same as her. The end result is the same isn't it?

I was just commenting on how little she was willing to accept. Like almost nothing. I left my ap partly because of him beginning to treat me the same way my husband has treated her for the entirety of their affair. 

Yes. I should have thought more about what I wrote more before writing it. But to say what I wrote means I think what you wrote?? **** right off. Have I ever indicated such thoughts?

Yes there are plenty of comparisons. We where both meat. Ego toys. 

I'll admit. Snubbing my nose at a woman who's sins and follies are not really appreciably different than my own is classless. But please for the love of god DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

That has to be the worst part of forums like these as a wayward. The million and a half people willing to tell you exactly what each and every word out of my mouth means. Drawing lines between one thoughtless but mostly inoculous statements and some sort of secret hidden longing for and romantisizing of my own affair.

I do not think my ap treated me better. Just a better actor than my husband is willing to be. I do not think he loved me. I don't think I loved him. Our affair was not special. We are not star crossed lovers. I was not a much different or better person than my husband's ap is, during or even much after my own affair. The results are the same. We both betrayed our husband's for NOTHING. NO GOOD REASON.

We both got fooled by our ap and mostly ourselves. I GET THAT. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I DON'T?


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> Rubix Cubed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't get how she could be treated so low and cheap by my husband and still want more!
> 
> 
> 
> Your husband probably felt this every day that you went back to your AP. Except he also felt like he treated you SO MUCH better, and had tried to build a life with you. That is very very hard. It's like an investment that someone else gets the spoils from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for that. It helped me understand my husband's probable point of view better.
Click to expand...


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## FoolishOne

Im tired. Im being *****y. Im going to bed. I'll think on what I've said and what's been said here. But right now I'm thrumming with anger and a feeling of betrayal. Im in no condition to post right now.

I thought you knew better about me than that. Is that really how I come across? That I still treasure that disgusting relationship with that ****er?


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> !
> 
> That's unfair and you know it.
> 
> Did I EVER SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT?!!!
> 
> I am absolutely shocked you could jump from me saying what I said to me meaning what you just wrote. It sickens me.
> 
> Yes my ap was playing the same game my husband was. He Just put a lot more effort in.
> 
> Yes he did buy me flowers. And presents. He wrote me a song (it's was horrible by the way). He texted me at all hours of the day. We did go on a few dates. And yes. We had to be careful to never be seen. He would say he loved me all the time.
> 
> Does that make what I did better. Or me any less of a fool. NO. It was still two ego stroking ****wits. I KNOW THAT.
> 
> I fed on bread crumbs and lies just the same as her. My bread crumbs where bigger. Thats all.
> 
> I still threw away my husband. Same as her. The end result is the same isn't it?
> 
> I was just commenting on how little she was willing to accept. Like almost nothing. I left my ap partly because of him beginning to treat me the same way my husband has treated her for the entirety of their affair.
> 
> Yes. I should have thought more about what I wrote more before writing it. But to say what I wrote means I think what you wrote?? **** right off. Have I ever indicated such thoughts?
> 
> Yes there are plenty of comparisons. We where both meat. Ego toys.
> 
> I'll admit. Snubbing my nose at a woman who's sins and follies are not really appreciably different than my own is classless. But please for the love of god DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
> 
> That has to be the worst part of forums like these as a wayward. The million and a half people willing to tell you exactly what each and every word out of my mouth means. Drawing lines between one thoughtless but mostly inoculous statements and some sort of secret hidden longing for and romantisizing of my own affair.
> 
> I do not think my ap treated me better. Just a better actor than my husband is willing to be. I do not think he loved me. I don't think I loved him. Our affair was not special. We are not star crossed lovers. I was not a much different or better person than my husband's ap is, during or even much after my own affair. The results are the same. We both betrayed our husband's for NOTHING. NO GOOD REASON.
> 
> We both got fooled by our ap and mostly ourselves. I GET THAT. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I DON'T?


Well you got to admit from our point of view it's a little rich that you and the AP did exactly the same thing for the same reasons. I mean just being honest here but when you were in your affair I really don't see any difference. 

I think you look back at what you did in disgust, but here is what I don't think you get, maybe for your husband's AP, him lusting after her makes her feel good in the same way songs and poems made you feel good. Go read what people who are in dead bedrooms say if they have an affair. For lots of them being lusted over is really something they very much want to feel again. So I think it really is apples to oranges. What the motives are makes no difference.

Beside you absolutely have in common that none of this was backed up with any tangle substance. It was all just words.

An affair at it's most basic level is someone trading in their honor for something that makes them feel good. At the end of the day it's not the sex or emotion that is the most awful thing about it, though that is awful. It's the willingness to desecrate one's self and one's reputation even with the people who love you most, the people who they have spent years with building a trusting foundation, so they can have this thing that makes me feel good. In that way all affairs are the same to me. Your affair partner could earnestly give you the world and it wouldn't be any less awful, they all seem degrading. You are hurting your loved ones terribly so you can feel good, when you do that for whatever reason you degrade yourself. 

I think deep down you get this. Are you sure you are not mad because it's really painful to see yourself in this women?

It's a bitter pill I know. 

For what it's worth I believe you are sorry and are really starting to get it and change. I generally have no time for most WS. You are exception because I think you have the potential to actually do some good even if your marriage doesn't make it. This is because you actually get it. But that doesn't mean you get it completely. I mean you had a long term affair and it took the loss of your entire social foundation to get you to see it. You are not going to completely change overnight. 

I am not trying to be mean here just pointing out where you might not be thinking correctly. Maybe you were, but you didn't sound like it. You need to understand everyone who has an affair is exactly like this women. They all give away SO much for SO little. I have a feeling that you may come back to this post years from now and you will get it much more then you even do now. Seems to be how it works.


----------



## personofinterest

Foolish, I would take your focus completely away from the other woman or the other man. The only people who matter right now are you and your husband. In addition, if you go to a member's profile page, there is a way to put them on ignore. I know that you are very raul right now, and you may need to temper what you read until you are able to handle it. Most of the people, even the really harsh ones, are trying to help you and your husband. But there are always a few posters on any forum who use a wayward spouse as a proxy for their own wayward spouse. It's usually pretty easy to tell the difference. Sometimes taking a break from the proxy treatment can help you gather your thoughts a little better.


----------



## x598

personofinterest said:


> Foolish, I would take your focus completely away from the other woman or the other man. The only people who matter right now are you and your husband. In addition, if you go to a member's profile page, there is a way to put them on ignore. I know that you are very raul right now, and you may need to temper what you read until you are able to handle it. Most of the people, even the really harsh ones, are trying to help you and your husband. But there are always a few posters on any forum who use a wayward spouse as a proxy for their own wayward spouse. It's usually pretty easy to tell the difference. Sometimes taking a break from the proxy treatment can help you gather your thoughts a little better.


i agree that letting go of the other woman is a smart thing to do. there was talk of the "morality" of the effort to expose....but when you are dealing with people with no morals.....whats the point? no to mention there ARE other side effects of this.....such as the BH coming after your husband (wasn't there some talk of potential violence or he is much physically bigger then your spouse or something like that?) or who knows what in todays insane times.

OP...I do find it funny that you seem to get all worked up or angry when others here pointed out that the other woman was doing EXACTLY what you have done....only for years longer and seem to be insulted by the comparison. Sorry to say......but yeah.....drop it...….you/her are on the same playing field. a tad bit more humility might be mucj more helpful here.

you mentioned how posters are jumping to conclusions or "putting words in your mouth"....ok but I think what you don't understand here is that there is a ton of wisdom and experience in this place. your story IS NOT unique. The scenario you are in has been played out here over and over again. Listen to all advise given and try not to be so harsh with people with offer you their advise for free. I don't see ANYONE here trying to bash you for them to get their kicks.


this is why R is so hard......for it to be successful....you really need to take a hard look at yourself and most cant. instead they get all offended and scamper away instead of learning a thing. I hope this wont be the case for you.


----------



## personofinterest

Believe it or not, being willing to learn and being a stranger's whipping post are not the same thing.


----------



## FoolishOne

Im sorry. Im not running. I have to think more on this. 

I'll admit. I went back and foward. Saying I'm the same as her and admitting it to myself is hard. Terrifying. Disgusting. 

I've been sitting here stewing in my hate for her honestly. I admit it. I looked at our sins as pretty similar but not really. I slept with another man and so did she. But somehow because she does it in what.... ? A less dignified way or for a different bull**** reason I'm better than her?

When so kill me showed how exactly the same we are in any way that matters I broke a bit. I couldn't argue against it.

My first burst of anger came when he thought I was still in some fog. Then his other post cleared it all up for me. I've been bouncing back and forth between denial and self loathing since then.

I'm not as steady as I thought. Im not getting this as much as I thought. Im confronted with my own ignorance of my sins and it hurts like hell.

To add to this thing are starting to happen IRL that are throwing me for a loop but I'm not prepared to talk about it. It has far reaching consequences and is between me and my husband as he asked me not to talk with others about this yet. We have a decision to make and it's ripping me apart.

I'm sorry if that spilled over into my responses and attitude. Nothing said on my thread in a while has been truly abusive. Im a big girl. I know what to expect.

I don't have much time right now. And even if I did I can't focus on this right now. Im not rugsweeping or forgetting. We just need time. And I think I need a small break from being on this forum nearly 5 hours a day. I can't explain it. It's affecting me.

Thank you for all your responses. even the people I threw anger at. 

I'll be back. I will. Your advice has been invaluable to me. Give me a few days.

Also. We scheduled IC. Both of us. We need it. We were avoiding it. MC will hopefully come later down the road.


----------



## sokillme

Good thing you didn't block me. (sighs and shakes head)

So I suspected as much, I knew I kind of hit a nerve, this stuff is going to be really hard for you at first. You really did a number on yourself and everyone else, and not for a very good reason. You also still don't see everything as clearly right away, though yesterday was a big one. It sucks, but it's like cancer you have to take the treatment even if it makes you feel like crap. 

But here is the most important thing - You don't have to continue to be like her, and you are working really hard not to be! So in that way you are not like her, but unfortunately your affair was. Like I always say about the past though, you can't relive it. In this case that is a good thing. That time is over. 

This is like being born, once you start to see the world this way you can't un-see it. In a sense you are maturing. In the end this is how things are going to get better, it's going to set you on a healthy path for the rest of your life no matter what happens. You will have a level of depth and empathy, just plain wisdom that you didn't have from the way you describe yourself in the earlier posts. Once you get that you will have deeper friendships, you will be a better parent even, you will have a better primary relationship and your life will be much richer for it. F1, once you start to make decisions base on honor, your life is going to seem much more solid and in your control. It's like trying to run laps on a small boat in the middle of the ocean, or running on dry land. Trust me. It's hard to live your life based on emotions because emotions are volatile.

Like the book says - Do not despise the day of small beginnings. Yesterday was a very important day for you.

Oh and I don't believe in the fog so I don't think you were in it. I think that your perspective like all WS is/was off. You need to grow in your vision and you are.


----------



## Bluesclues

I think it is important for you to know that you are allowed to be hurt, to be angry, to hate the OW and think she is a lowlife *****. You are not Buddha. You are a flawed human being who has feelings. Being a WS before you are a BS does not make the betrayal not hurt. 

Constantly being told you “don’t get it” if you express those feelings is not helpful. You need to feel all of those feelings to heal. You can’t push them aside because your previous actions prove you “unworthy” of having them to others. You have been wounded and will experience the stages of grief just like any other BS. You can’t skip them and jump to acceptance because you did wrong first. It doesn’t work that way. 

Would you tell your husband that he is no longer allowed to have negative feelings about your OM because he is now an OM too? No, you wouldn’t. The pain he has caused others does not negate his pain. The pain you have caused doesn’t negate yours either. Many would argue that he hurts more because you drew first blood, and with that I agree. But it doesn’t mean you don’t hurt or that you aren’t allowed to. 

Yes, there is a lot of introspection that needs to happen on your part. It sounds like you have already begun. But allow yourself to feel those raw BS emotions in between. They are a step forward in your healing as a BS, not a step back as a WS.


----------



## personofinterest

Bluesclues said:


> I think it is important for you to know that you are allowed to be hurt, to be angry, to hate the OW and think she is a lowlife *****. You are not Buddha. You are a flawed human being who has feelings. Being a WS before you are a BS does not make the betrayal not hurt.
> 
> Constantly being told you “don’t get it” if you express those feelings is not helpful. You need to feel all of those feelings to heal. You can’t push them aside because your previous actions prove you “unworthy” of having them to others. You have been wounded and will experience the stages of grief just like any other BS. You can’t skip them and jump to acceptance because you did wrong first. It doesn’t work that way.
> 
> Would you tell your husband that he is no longer allowed to have negative feelings about your OM because he is now an OM too? No, you wouldn’t. The pain he has caused others does not negate his pain. The pain you have caused doesn’t negate yours either. Many would argue that he hurts more because you drew first blood, and with that I agree. But it doesn’t mean you don’t hurt or that you aren’t allowed to.
> 
> Yes, there is a lot of introspection that needs to happen on your part. It sounds like you have already begun. But allow yourself to feel those raw BS emotions in between. They are a step forward in your healing as a BS, not a step back as a WS.


Exactly.


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## BarbedFenceRider

This last page has the most insight I have seen in awhile....

Truly awesome. I will pray for FO. And her family as well....


----------



## BluesPower

NorseViking said:


> REDACTED


Seriously man, what is the point of this? Here we have a WW that is finally getting it and you want to continue to beat her up. 

You know, she has owned her behavior and she is doing things the right way finally. And you are going to continue and snipe at her?

I don't get it...


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## personofinterest

He's using her as his whipping post. I suggest counseling.


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## MattMatt

*Moderator Message:*

Some posts have been removed as they violated board rules, others have been deleted or edited to remove quoted content from banned posts.


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## NJ2

I too had an A many many years ago. It was stupid and evil and selfish but I didnt get it at the time- I dont know why- maybe because I was stupid and selfish and evil? I broke up the A after about 6 months.- I didnt tell my H and we went along for 25 years....

Then I sensed that H was becoming distant. He stopped most forms of intimacy and rarely spoke about anything to me other than the kids or the weather. I asked him if there was someone else? Was he becoming close to another woman? Could it be his coworker that he'd gone out for beer with a year before? The one he was giving little gifts of appreciation to for her being such a wonderful help to him.....

He denied having feelings for anyone else-denied ever going to her house...I snooped on his phone and found mildly flirty texts but nothing overt. "I'm waiting for you" "where are you?" "Come back" ""I oh there you are I see you now ..."
I also saw him deleting her texts sometimes before I read them and sometimes after I'd read them. He stayed out all night with her once -it was a work emergency...I found out that he in fact had gone to her house at least 4 times

The pain was devastating as any BS knows. I was distraught and horrified at what I could assume was going on. I went on here for help and eventually -after some 2x4's and well deserved wake up calls as to my own character I told him about my A. He was devastated, angry, felt like his marriage was a lie-We went to MC and IC for several years to work through our mess. (He never admitted to any EA/PA even after he failed a poly.)

I was consumed with needing to know and overcome with suspicion, jealousy, and insecurity. I developed a type of relationship OCD which took over my life for a long time. It was a total mind ****ing hellish experience. Did I deserve it? 
I dont think anyone can possibly understand how soul killing betrayal is until they experience it. So in a sense I did deserve it. It showed me how close I had come to losing everything I valued for what? I look back and see my AP as a predator and me a stupid fool. 

FWIW We made it to the other side. I hope yu do too.


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## sokillme

I think some of you think I am trying to shame F1, that is not my point at all. That was not me kicking her when she is down. There have been times when I have shamed people, but again that was with a purpose. In this instance it was to get her to see that her affair was like any other. When it comes down to it whatever you AP gives you, if you have the worst marriage imaginable, or your affair is more passionate then all the others, it still comes down to trading your integrity away for lust. All of them are tawdry and all of them are destructive. And not just destructive to the person being cheated on. I think of it like the climactic scene in the crucible - "Because it is my name!" (One of the all time great moves and probably one of my favorite scenes. If you haven't seen it you should.) Your integrity is the foundation that your voice stands on, when you lose your integrity you lose your voice, in your marriage, in you life. You lose your hope too because you have no foundation. In the end it's all we control and all we have. F1 needs to fully get this so she can earn her good name back. That is the path to happiness for her whatever happens with her marriage. 

So even though she may intellectually know her affair is like this women that her husband had an affair with, she still emotionally didn't get it. When I pointed it out to her, and I think I was actually pretty nice about it, she got it. Emotionally she got it, THANK GOD that she did. Getting it speaks to a change in her character. I was painful because it was the bottom of this. So yes I am harsh some times, but it's for a point. Someone needed to help her get it emotionally. For one you can't help but change if you do but it has he added effect of also helping her emotionally understand what her husband went through. It will give her a path to empathy which may help her connect with her husband in a way that can cause healing for both of them. 

I will take the heat. I don't care if you call me whatever, but know I don't post on her to be mean to people. I don't waste sometimes hours posting to make myself feel good by making others feel bad. That has never been my motivation.


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## personofinterest

Having a purpose doesnt make cruelty less cruel.

I doubt beating her up will do anything for HER, though I daresay it fills some need in you.


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## sokillme

NJ2 said:


> I too had an A many many years ago. It was stupid and evil and selfish but I didnt get it at the time- I dont know why- maybe because I was stupid and selfish and evil? I broke up the A after about 6 months.- I didnt tell my H and we went along for 25 years....
> 
> Then I sensed that H was becoming distant. He stopped most forms of intimacy and rarely spoke about anything to me other than the kids or the weather. I asked him if there was someone else? Was he becoming close to another woman? Could it be his coworker that he'd gone out for beer with a year before? The one he was giving little gifts of appreciation to for her being such a wonderful help to him.....
> 
> He denied having feelings for anyone else-denied ever going to her house...I snooped on his phone and found mildly flirty texts but nothing overt. "I'm waiting for you" "where are you?" "Come back" ""I oh there you are I see you now ..."
> I also saw him deleting her texts sometimes before I read them and sometimes after I'd read them. He stayed out all night with her once -it was a work emergency...I found out that he in fact had gone to her house at least 4 times
> 
> The pain was devastating as any BS knows. I was distraught and horrified at what I could assume was going on. I went on here for help and eventually -after some 2x4's and well deserved wake up calls as to my own character I told him about my A. He was devastated, angry, felt like his marriage was a lie-We went to MC and IC for several years to work through our mess. (He never admitted to any EA/PA even after he failed a poly.)
> 
> I was consumed with needing to know and overcome with suspicion, jealousy, and insecurity. I developed a type of relationship OCD which took over my life for a long time. It was a total mind ****ing hellish experience. Did I deserve it?
> I dont think anyone can possibly understand how soul killing betrayal is until they experience it. So in a sense I did deserve it. It showed me how close I had come to losing everything I valued for what? I look back and see my AP as a predator and me a stupid fool.
> 
> FWIW We made it to the other side. I hope yu do too.


Well here I go again. 

If he did have an affair be prepared because one day he may also have an epiphany and like you confess. I hope if you didn't get the truth you DO one day.


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## personofinterest

I apparently cant read lol

Nevermind


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## sokillme

personofinterest said:


> Having a purpose doesnt make cruelty less cruel.
> 
> I doubt beating her up will do anything for HER, though I daresay it fills some need in you.


I wasn't cruel to her. I don't think she would even say I was, in fact her follow up post confirmed as much. This is serious life changing/ life saving stuff here. If you are adult enough to cheat on your spouse you should be adult enough to be confronted with your actions 

Again cruelty assumes things are said to hurt her. They were actually said to help her, and I think her post confirmed that they have. It's painful for her yes but pain isn't always a sign of something bad. Chemotherapy would be an example. A lot of what we do on this board is that. Working through very painful stuff so people can get better. Because this place is anonymous people are free to be very honest and people who have spent years lying to everyone in their lives and even themselves really need some stark honesty. It's like cold water in the face, just because that is painful doesn't mean it's wrong or cruel. It's more a product of years of lying to oneself.


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## Bluesclues

sokillme said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having a purpose doesnt make cruelty less cruel.
> 
> I doubt beating her up will do anything for HER, though I daresay it fills some need in you.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't cruel to her. I don't think she would even say I was, in fact her follow up post confirmed as much. This is serious life changing/ life saving stuff here. If you are adult enough to cheat on your spouse you should be adult enough to be confronted with your actions
> 
> Again cruelty assumes things are said to hurt her. They were actually said to help her, and I think her post confirmed that they have. It's painful for her yes but pain isn't always a sign of something bad. Chemotherapy would be an example. A lot of what we do on this board is that. Working through very painful stuff so people can get better. Because this place is anonymous people are free to be very honest and people who have spent years lying to everyone in their lives and even themselves really need some stark honesty. It's like cold water in the face, just because that is painful doesn't mean it's wrong or cruel. It's more a product of years of lying to oneself.
Click to expand...

I don’t think you were cruel. I think you were singularly focused. Which you can’t be in a mad hatter situation. You gave her good insights on the WS side. And since she is the primary WS she needs to focus on that the most. I just wanted her to know she could and should switch hats at times.


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## sokillme

Bluesclues said:


> I don’t think you were cruel. I think you were singularly focused. Which you can’t be in a mad hatter situation. You gave her good insights on the WS side. And since she is the primary WS she needs to focus on that the most. I just wanted her to know she could and should switch hats at times.


I actually agree with your post, I think she has every right to be mad at the OW but she still needs to see her in the context of herself because that will help her to never be that way again.


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## sokillme

@FoolishOne how are you doing?


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## sokillme

@FoolishOne tring one more time. Hope things are progressing.


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## Taxman

When I see a revenge situation in my practice, I try to convince the formerly betrayed spouse that they are really playing with fire. Most times I am met with this statement: It was done to me, and I want him/her to feel the exact same level of betrayal that I did. TBH, although I have read on forum after forum that the wayward spouse is not as heavily effected by the revenge affair, and I beg to differ. I have seen the wayward sobbing endlessly in my office, how their spouse could get back at them in such a horrible manner. I have said numerous times that this was justice in the betrayed spouse's mind and now the decision is to stay together and fix it from the standpoint that you are even, and retribution was deserved, or to just walk away after both of you have poisoned the relationship. I say in every event, stepping out is a formula for self abuse, and it is amplified by revenge. So let my put my Pollyanna hat on: It would always be best if in a less than perfect marriage situation, if both spouses could be honest: say that a coworker is hitting on you, say that you are attracted to someone else, say that you do not feel the marriage is going well. Talk for god sakes. Frankly, affairs are a cowards way of dealing with your life stresses, but if the last forty years has taught me anything, it is NEVER be surprised by human behaviors. Even in the absolute best circumstances, rock solid relationship, something can happen.


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## FoolishOne

Hello all. That break lasted longer than I thought. 

I'm sorry for not checking in sooner. And thank you to those who reached out. Truly.

Things were going very poorly when I took my break. Besides the cold realization that my husband could forgive me but probably never forget, another thing happened.

We got pregnant. At first I thought God was playing a trick on me. I was on birth control. Then when I checked my meds I realized I messed up multiple days. I had done it a few times before on accident without any repercussions. Not this time.

When I told my husband he was shocked. Asked how. I told him. I messed up. 

He took it hard. Didn't know what to feel. Until the anger came. He accused me of getting pregnant on purpose. He left. Him and his brother and cousin went hunting deer. 

He was gone for a week with very little communication. Just checking in to make sure I was ok. He was face timing with my daughter a bunch. (I don't want to hear accusations he was with his AP. The thought crossed my mind, but the facts seem to prove he was where he said he was and I simply don't have it in me to snoop and investigate about it.)

While he was gone I spiraled into depression. I knew why he is mad. Not just the thought of me doing this on purpose. It's a chain around his neck. I know my husband. Our children are his number one concern. He won't be a half time dad. He won't consider it. He also doesn't believe in abortions. Considers it murder.

When he came back from his hunting trip he looked me in the eyes and said "you win". That hurt like hell. I have tried telling him I didn't do this on purpose. I would never do that to him. But we all know what I'm capable of. How could he believe me? 

I feel like the biggest piece of ****. I have felt like that for the last month almost. I haven't been taking care of myself properly. He has stepped up recently to make sure I am taking care of myself and it only drives me deeper into depression. 

He hasn't accused me of trapping him recently and even said a few days ago that he was only reacting in panic and distrust due to the timing. I understand. But I know he would say anything to smooth this over at this point. I've seen his depression. 

I got what I wanted. My husband is probably never leaving now. He has said so himself in less clear more pretty words. It's just not the way I wanted. I'm such a God damn burden to him. I feel so pathetic right down to my bones.

My husband has been putting in a ton of work to be my pick me up in the last week or so. He was talking about fate and new begginings. But I know. He made the decision to be there for our unborn child. Not me. Not for love of me. Maybe im punishing myself too much. Maybe this is fate, or a new beggining like he says. It doesnt feel like it. And when I catch sight of those little moments when his shoulders slump and he gets glassy eyed, I know it isn't.

I've seen my IC. He skipped his. It was helpful. Talking in person was helpful. Not a watershed moment or anything, but helpful. She has been talking about spiraling emotions/thoughts and giving me tools to fight depression. I'm not totally sure of her helpfulness, but its nice to have someone to talk about my fears with. 

I have wanted another child for a while now. I'm 42. There won't be any other chances after this. A year ago I would have been happy beyond belief. I would have been assured of my husband's staying. Received a new bundle of joy to raise and we could have gone back to "normal". I'm no fool now..... well I am. Just less of one. This baby hasnt solved anything. Only made things more complicated. 

To add to this all I have been suffering from anemia. I'm scared it will affect the baby, but my doctor assures me we have it under control and that it is only mild.


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## TDSC60

When you finally made your confession to your husband, you found out that he knew you did not end the affair after DDay. He admitted that he made the decision to stay until the youngest child was in college, then leave. You have made lots of progress since then and he recognized that.

When you announced you were pregnant, it is logical, given the state of your marriage, that he would assume you did it intentionally. His anger is normal. But I have a feeling about your husband. I think he is capable of forgiving you and loving you again. I had the feeling he was leaning in that direction before. You are correct that he made the decision to stay for the unborn child - just as he decided to stay for the children after DDay

You said you would have been happy beyond belief if this had happened a year ago. Why? A year ago your husband still thought you were cheating on him with your OM. Remember, he knew you had not stopped the affair several weeks after DDay when he hired a PI to follow you to OM's house. He assumed that you never stopped and was living life in the "open marriage" you created. A year ago this news would have hit him in the same manner, only he would have wondered who the father was.

I think you both are now totally honest with each other. So when he talks about fate and new beginnings, take him at his word. Sure - the doubts will creep in from time to time. But he will get over them with your help.

I think this baby is a blessing for you both. It is the cornerstone of a new marriage for you.


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## Violet28

Wow! Just read this whole thread, was not expecting this development. How far along are you? Is it possible you got pregnant before you even found out about his affair? The timing may help convince your husband that it was unintentional. 

Don't let this stop the progress that you and your husband were making. Keep talking and reaching out to him. One of your earlier posts said you felt like you took something priceless and broke into pieces. That's true, you did. However, this can turn into something better than 'priceless', now it can be real. What you had before will never be as real at it can be now. You know the worst about each other, you have hurt each other and yourselves, you pretended to be ok with things you didn't like, you held resentments towards each other, you know your own faults and you're not under the illusion that love will fix everything. It can be a new beginning if you let it. Share this with your husband, every step of the pregnancy, doctor appts, shopping for the nursery, do some cheesy prego photos with him, argue over names. What a good mother you will be to this child with all the knowledge you have gained in the last several years! 

If you find you cannot do this, then offer him his freedom again. Tell him how much you love him and want to make it work, together as a family. Tell him you love him so much that you want him to be happy, with or without you. That you want him to choose you for you, not the kids. He can be completely involved with kids without being married to you and you can still do things as a family. He can still choose his path.


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## sokillme

Well I guess you are at a crossroads again. You can feel guilty and sad like you are a burden, but that is really kind of you feeling sorry for yourself right? Which is a selfish reaction. Or, you can be the best most faithful wife he could ever want. You can really learn about what will make him feel safe and make the rest of your life about cherishing him so that maybe in a few years he will be happy and his point about it being fate will be true. 

Lots of your problems have been you living in your own head, reacting poorly to uncomfortable feelings. That has not worked for you, it never works for anyone. How about you make the rest of your life about your family especially your husband and see what that gets you. Meaning working on you still, learn and study your husband and what makes him feel safe, what makes him feel loved. Talk to him, ask him questions. "I understand that you don't feel safe, tell me the best way to do this so you will feel safe now." "I understand that I let you down in this way, but I am not going to do that again, here is why." Do that over and over and see where that gets you. 

To be a little harsh (shocking right) you have been living your life reacting to your own emotions for most of it, enough with that already. It's time to grow up. I got to tell you, it seems like you haven't learned this. For most people lots of our lives are about doing stuff that we don't want to do, that we don't really enjoy. Making decisions and acting on those decisions even when we feel uncomfortable or tired or even scared because it's the right thing to do. Part of that is because it's a strategy that leads to better long term success. It's why books like the bible talk about planting seeds, it's a universal principle that really works. You do hard things over long periods of time to see wonderful results but that don't happen for a long while. But when they do happen they are the kind of results that change your life. You need to start practicing this daily with your marriage. 

Again one more time, I challenge you to change the focus every time you go to these dark thoughts. I want you to literally think "NO I am not going to feel this thought, what can I do right now to let my husband know that we are not a mistake." Then call him and tell him you love him or plan something sexy, whatever it is. Did deep on that, figure out what it is. Some people put a rubber band on their wrist and literally snap it just to brake the thoughts.

That is just it, you have control of your mind and your thoughts it just take discipline and practice. I challenge you to discipline your mind and turn it onto loving your husband, and making it your mission to be the matriarch of your family with what all of that demands. Be the feminine presence in his life with all of the wonderful things that can be for him. Open up to him to make him feel safe. Essentially let it all go and give yourself to him. You are strong enough now that if it doesn't work out you will be alright at least you can say you gave it your all. You both are going to need each other. 

This is often why I say people can change but it takes and Olympian like effort. This is what I am talking about. @FoolishOne how much are you willing to work for it. 

Going forward, read, watch videos, talk to people about loyalty. Learn all about it what it is as a philosophy and practice it. Understand it so you can show it and your husband can see it. Be fierce about it. 

Read/watch/learn all about morality (not in the basic ways we tell kids). I mean learn about it. Why is it important not to steal. What does it mean to be a responsible citizen, wife, friend, person. What do the great religions teach us about that. Why is that. Why do they basically all say the same thing. Look you got a very hard lesson about why they say don't cheat. You lived the results and now understand why they warned against it. It even took you years to see these results but here you are, and the warning was true right? Well maybe some of the other stuff they say is true too. I am not telling you to get religion or not get religion, I am telling you there is a good reason to live your life as a moral person. Point is start to think about this stuff. I say this because once you understand that the reason why they warn against cheating, even though it may really feel great at the beginning is because people throughout history have done this stuff and just like you it broke their life. It's not to spoil your fun. When you really start to believe that you will see how that helps your life. It will give you wisdom to make good decisions. 

Learn about honor. Why should you live your life with a moral code, what does that mean for your life. Do I get something out of doing the right thing when no one knows and it would be fun and easy to do wrong (hint you do, more then most people have any idea about). Life is easier when you don't make all your decisions from emotions, because making decisions from emotions often times is reactionary and just leads to more emotions and lots of trouble. The code helps you with that, and gives you something to be proud of. 

Start there that is your path to a better life.

Seriously, enough with living in your own head. Discipline! 

Finally did you tell your husbands girlfriend's husband about who he is really married to?


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## FoolishOne

Yes. The ow husband knows. Sent an email. He phoned me. He was very cold. Asked me to send the videos I referenced. I did. I didn't try to comfort or say anything really. What can I say? He asked how long, how often type questions. Not to many. Then hung up. No contact since. I was expecting hysterics from the OBS. None.


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## Lostinthought61

This is a shot in the dark here, what if you told your husband that you are willing to to grant him a divorce, that you will not burden with this child, you will not place his name in the father section. tell him that you do not want him to stay just for the kids sake...that is how much you want to prove to him that you did not trap him....i realize there are no guarantees here, but perhaps it will allow him to realize that you want him for him and not for control....another approach is to divorce but continue to live together and if works out then you will marry again but if not than you will raise the children but have separate lives...this way you again prove that you are offering his life back. BTW congratulations on the pregnancy.


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## Cynthia

Classic projection below. You thinking this way doesn't mean everyone in your situation thinks the same way.



One Eighty said:


> Oh, my. Your situation continues to get more like mine. Now he may be with you like I am with my WS, feeling like I have no better options.
> 
> I think trapped is over statng it for me and your H. We both have many options and could change our minds at any time. It just doesn't seem like any of those options are better than pretending and staying. At least right now.
> 
> It is not horrible. We have good times. Very good. But it is not what I really hoped for in a relationship and at times it is almost unbearably bad.
> 
> It sounds like he is willing to pretend though. Which is what I do and so it works. Sort of.
> 
> I worry for you that his resentment might build up, unexpressed, until in a moment of anger it will flood out and the result will be hard on you. I admit that happens to me. If this happens, you should remember that you too have the power to end this marriage. He doesn't have to agree to that.
> 
> Oh, and you mentioned lack of trust as the main issue. I think that is important but even with 100% trust, I can't imagine being totally happy with my WS. Trust is just that, trust. Having it doesn't wipe out the painful memory.


Are you lying to your wife and telling her otherwise?
FoolishOne's husband is saying that he wants to have a good marriage with her, but he didn't know if that could happen. He has now told her that he's all in and will work with her to resolve the issues that are plaguing them. That is not pretending. That is working through the pain and issues, which is how to live a good life. If they are both doing that, there is a high probability of success.


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## bandit.45

I understand the husband being pissed about OP's affair and I guess I can get why he retaliated, although that doesn't exonerate his actions.

What I don't get is the sanctimonious anger at OP for getting pregnant. If he didn't want her to get knocked up he should have gotten snipped, or just abstained from having sex with her altogether. He's a dumbass.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

bandit.45 said:


> I understand the husband being pissed about OP's affair and I guess I can get why he retaliated, although that doesn't exonerate his actions.
> 
> What I don't get is the sanctimonious anger at OP for getting pregnant. If he didn't want her to get knocked up he should have gotten snipped, or just abstained from having sex with her altogether. He's a dumbass.


This. Pregnancy happens when sex happens, even with the best of birth control.

I got pregnant on the 10 year iud.

Anyhow, OP, congratulations on the pregnancy. Don't let him make you feel bad. You both laid down and a child is the result.


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## Tron

bandit.45 said:


> I understand the husband being pissed about OP's affair and I guess I can get why he retaliated, although that doesn't exonerate his actions.
> 
> What I don't get is the sanctimonious anger at OP for getting pregnant. If he didn't want her to get knocked up he should have gotten snipped, or just abstained from having sex with her altogether. He's a dumbass.


Ummmmm. Yeah this!

And how many times have couples gone through hysterical bonding just to have the W get knocked up? A bunch!

A good friend of mine used to joke about this, but in some cases quite true...

Accidents cause people.


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## Tron

FoolishOne, you guys will get it together and fix this.

And no matter what some morooons say here, CONGRATS on the addition to your family! I hope that you have a safe and uneventful pregnancy.


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## sokillme

bandit.45 said:


> I understand the husband being pissed about OP's affair and I guess I can get why he retaliated, although that doesn't exonerate his actions.
> 
> What I don't get is the sanctimonious anger at OP for getting pregnant. If he didn't want her to get knocked up he should have gotten snipped, or just abstained from having sex with her altogether. He's a dumbass.


I don't agree, she says herself she messed up her pills. He did nothing but what most men do with they have sex with girlfriends and wives who are on birth control do which is to believe they will take them responsibly. This is a pretty standard assumption that most men have made in their lives. Doesn't make him sanctimonious or a dumbass any more then it does anyone else who makes the same assumption. Yes I get it no birth control is fool proof, but really when almost everyone in western society acts on this presumption it's hard give someone a rough time about that. It's not like they were using the pull out method. 

I also don't believe their was malice on her part. It is what it is, he seems to be willing to try, she needs to put in the effort and see if they can heal.


----------



## TDSC60

One Eighty said:


> Oh, my. Your situation continues to get more like mine. Now he may be with you like I am with my WS, feeling like I have no better options.
> 
> I think trapped is over statng it for me and your H. We both have many options and could change our minds at any time. It just doesn't seem like any of those options are better than pretending and staying. At least right now.
> 
> It is not horrible. We have good times. Very good. But it is not what I really hoped for in a relationship and at times it is almost unbearably bad.
> 
> It sounds like he is willing to pretend though. Which is what I do and so it works. Sort of.
> 
> I worry for you that his resentment might build up, unexpressed, until in a moment of anger it will flood out and the result will be hard on you. I admit that happens to me. If this happens, you should remember that you too have the power to end this marriage. He doesn't have to agree to that.
> 
> Oh, and you mentioned lack of trust as the main issue. I think that is important but even with 100% trust, I can't imagine being totally happy with my WS. Trust is just that, trust. Having it doesn't wipe out the painful memory.


 @One Eighty, the difference here is that you say your wife would prefer her OM even now. She is still in on/off contact with him. And you are in fact divorced and choosing to live together as a family.

I don't think that is the case with @FoolishOne nor her husband. I really think they have a good chance at a new marriage if they can work through the anger that the affairs have caused.


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## FoolishOne

I think people think my husband is mad because I'm pregnant. He isn't. He was at first because he thought I skipped birth control on purpose. I didn't. But you can see how he might think that... right?

My husband's feeling are still whirling around. His trust is still low. But he is warming up.

Someone said I might consider not putting my husband's name on the birth certificate. To let him know he doesn't have to take responsibility.

That sounds good on paper.... But I know my husband and he has already made his stance clear. He is all on board for the child. Already talking names. Touches my belly a lot. Wants a son badly. Says he wants to do man things with a son. Raising daughters is great, but he wants to have a little buddy instead of little princess this time. He isn't dead set on a boy though. We both know it's random (obviously duh).

If I approach him and offer this, I already know his answer. He will not back out. It feels somewhat like play acting if I was to do that at this point. Giving him an option I already know he won't accept in an attempt to seem like a martyr. I would rather not play games like that. Maybe I'm over thinking it. I know the advice came with the best of intentions but i dont think it works for us.

The excellent advice to not live in my head so much seems good at this point.

Besides the worry that He feels trapped, the issues concerning my pregnancy are being solved. He is mostly just worried about my anemia. I've been feeling weak lately. It's not horrible. Just tired a lot. 

He told me to quit my job. I think it's a option. It's not like I make much, but im pretty sure its way to soon for that. My doctor has me cleared for work. My husband is just worried about the baby and my health. But I am worried about what to do with my time. I'm not really a reader and t.v is boring as hell. I find I don't really have many hobbies of my own. I would obviously go back to work after the baby is a little older. I enjoy my work. It's not like I had a high stress job anyways. My husband is the one who arranged my job through a friend of his.

Someone asked how far along I am. 7 weeks. So a little before I started this thread. Though I didn't know until a little after. I held the info for a week. Which I regret. More of me being in my own head. Letting fear control my decisions.

I want to leave this post on a high note. My councilor told me to not fixate on negatives so much. 

It's silly and doesn't mean much in the big picture and I'm sure doesn't really mean much to anyone besides me, but I'll tell anyways because it gave me hope and filled me with happiness.

A few nights ago I woke up to my husband spooning with me with one hand under my waist and the other on my belly. My back to him. He kissed me on the back of my neck and went to sleep. I didn't say or do anything, but that was like heaven to me. He hasn't been much of a cuddler for a long time. When I woke up in the morning he was already out of bed (he's a morning person. Takes jogs to start the day.) So I didn't say anything. I'm going to hold onto that. Keep it to myself (besides you fine anonymous people. Sshhh don't tell.) Whenever things get hard I'll think about that. It's one piece of affection he has shown that I know is real. Really real. I don't think he knew I woke up. The gesture wasn't for my benefit. It was just for him. My mind keeps going back to that. It's just a little thing, but it feels so big to me. It's a spark. An ember. A half seen image of what could be. Hope that keeps me going.

Not everything I'm feeling is negative. I just seem to concentrate a bit too much on it and it seems only negative things happen because I bring all the negative here to this board while seeking advise. I'll try to start sharing more of the positive here.


----------



## OnTheFly

FoolishOne said:


> He is mostly just worried about my anemia. I've been feeling weak lately. It's not horrible. Just tired a lot.


Eat beef, lots of it.


----------



## personofinterest

OP, just focus on your family and health.

People who have chosen misery's secondary gain resent it when.others try to truly recover.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> I think people think my husband is mad because I'm pregnant. He isn't. He was at first because he thought I skipped birth control on purpose. I didn't. But you can see how he might think that... right?
> 
> My husband's feeling are still whirling around. His trust is still low. But he is warming up.
> 
> Someone said I might consider not putting my husband's name on the birth certificate. To let him know he doesn't have to take responsibility.
> 
> That sounds good on paper.... But I know my husband and he has already made his stance clear. He is all on board for the child. Already talking names. Touches my belly a lot. Wants a son badly. Says he wants to do man things with a son. Raising daughters is great, but he wants to have a little buddy instead of little princess this time. He isn't dead set on a boy though. We both know it's random (obviously duh).
> 
> If I approach him and offer this, I already know his answer. He will not back out. It feels somewhat like play acting if I was to do that at this point. Giving him an option I already know he won't accept in an attempt to seem like a martyr. I would rather not play games like that. Maybe I'm over thinking it. I know the advice came with the best of intentions but i dont think it works for us.
> 
> The excellent advice to not live in my head so much seems good at this point.
> 
> Besides the worry that He feels trapped, the issues concerning my pregnancy are being solved. He is mostly just worried about my anemia. I've been feeling weak lately. It's not horrible. Just tired a lot.
> 
> He told me to quit my job. I think it's a option. It's not like I make much, but im pretty sure its way to soon for that. My doctor has me cleared for work. My husband is just worried about the baby and my health. But I am worried about what to do with my time. I'm not really a reader and t.v is boring as hell. I find I don't really have many hobbies of my own. I would obviously go back to work after the baby is a little older. I enjoy my work. It's not like I had a high stress job anyways. My husband is the one who arranged my job through a friend of his.
> 
> Someone asked how far along I am. 7 weeks. So a little before I started this thread. Though I didn't know until a little after. I held the info for a week. Which I regret. More of me being in my own head. Letting fear control my decisions.
> 
> I want to leave this post on a high note. My councilor told me to not fixate on negatives so much.
> 
> It's silly and doesn't mean much in the big picture and I'm sure doesn't really mean much to anyone besides me, but I'll tell anyways because it gave me hope and filled me with happiness.
> 
> A few nights ago I woke up to my husband spooning with me with one hand under my waist and the other on my belly. My back to him. He kissed me on the back of my neck and went to sleep. I didn't say or do anything, but that was like heaven to me. He hasn't been much of a cuddler for a long time. When I woke up in the morning he was already out of bed (he's a morning person. Takes jogs to start the day.) So I didn't say anything. I'm going to hold onto that. Keep it to myself (besides you fine anonymous people. Sshhh don't tell.) Whenever things get hard I'll think about that. It's one piece of affection he has shown that I know is real. Really real. I don't think he knew I woke up. The gesture wasn't for my benefit. It was just for him. My mind keeps going back to that. It's just a little thing, but it feels so big to me. It's a spark. An ember. A half seen image of what could be. Hope that keeps me going.
> 
> Not everything I'm feeling is negative. I just seem to concentrate a bit too much on it and it seems only negative things happen because I bring all the negative here to this board while seeking advise. I'll try to start sharing more of the positive here.



This is a nice update. I think your husband deserves the benefit of the doubt. I think even after all you have been through he loves you. He is trying which should give you hope. If you are really serious about changing and working on your relationship I think you have a chance. 

One thing though. Don't hide your desire of wanting his touch, from him. Don't hide your love and desire at all from him. Most "good" husbands will naturally bond and feel protective of their wives when they are showing vulnerability. It's in our nature to be protective of our wives just like it's in the nature of many women to be nurturing. This is kind of our mission or purpose. So in my mind it's actually works against you by trying to protect him from your desire for his touch. I am sure in your mind you are thinking it's too much to ask and you don't want to pressure it, but still. One way to do it might be to write him a note and apologize again for everything that happened but thank him for still cuddling with you. Tell him you don't expect it but what you wish for. If it is your greatest desire for you to be a family again, you need to tell him that over and over. 

You need to say things like "I want to be your wife", "I want to be your girl", "I want to be close to you", "I want one more chance so I can do better", in your own words, over and over to the point that he believes it. If you are feeling down or worried instead of thinking about that, text him, go to him, contact him in some way and say this. He needs to believe it, and that is going to take your repeated request for it, effort and time. I would do it in letter form more then anything else though at least at first because that way he can digest it without any pressure to respond right away. Eventually though if it just starts coming out with your voice when you both are having a good time that would be a good thing. 

Men are territorial about our families it's in our nature. Knowing our wives want to be in our territory so to speak is a big turn on. It's the thing about infidelity especially sexual infidelity is so hard for most men to get over, right now he doesn't feel like you are his anymore. You need to change that. Trust me be vulnerable.


----------



## Violet28

FoolishOne said:


> If I approach him and offer this, I already know his answer. He will not back out. It feels somewhat like play acting if I was to do that at this point. Giving him an option I already know he won't accept in an attempt to seem like a martyr.


It is only a game if the offer is not sincere and genuine.



FoolishOne said:


> He told me to quit my job. I think it's an option. It's not like I make much, but I'm pretty sure its way to soon for that. My doctor has me cleared for work. My husband is just worried about the baby and my health. But I am worried about what to do with my time. I'm not really a reader and t.v is boring as hell. I find I don't really have many hobbies of my own. I would obviously go back to work after the baby is a little older. I enjoy my work. It's not like I had a high-stress job anyways. My husband is the one who arranged my job through a friend of his.


I find a sense of purpose through working, don't give your job up too soon. It's good to have something going on in your life outside of the house, even when the baby is small, keeps you more balanced.



FoolishOne said:


> It's just a little thing, but it feels so big to me. It's a spark. An ember. A half-seen image of what could be. Hope that keeps me going.


You are only a fool if you don't take this second chance that is being offered to you. Think how much more special your relationship could be now, instead of being based on who you thought each other was, you know now the truth and could be choosing each other without the blinders on.


----------



## lahdeedoo

Violet28 said:


> It is only a game if the offer is not sincere and genuine.
> 
> 
> 
> I find a sense of purpose through working, don't give your job up too soon. It's good to have something going on in your life outside of the house, even when the baby is small, keeps you more balanced.
> 
> 
> 
> You are only a fool if you don't take this second chance that is being offered to you. Think how much more special your relationship could be now, instead of being based on who you thought each other was, you know now the truth and could be choosing each other without the blinders on.



But he's not choosing her of his own volition. He is choosing to move forward because of the child. That is the role he is currently viewing her in. It's why he is taking the responsibility to monitor her health and make sure she is taking the best possible care of herself. Yes, his interest and love is sincere, but it doesn't negate the fact that she has effectively bypassed the hard work of recovery/reconciliation by becoming an expecting mother. Only a monster would fail to give compassion and forgiveness to a vulnerable expectant mother. But that therein lies the problem. 

Of course her husband is going to be affectionate with her. She is carrying his child. It is obvious that he is going to overlook and push past his wife's cruelty out of sincere and passionate love for his child and for her (for carrying him or her). I believe her husband is blinded by sincere and compassionate love for both her and their child.

It almost seems like she has effectively transformed herself from betrayer and destroyer to precious being by virtue of being pregnant. She is now transformed into something to be protected, cherished, valued, etc. at the cost of, what I fear, having to truly do the hard work to heal the damage she has inflicted. 

I honestly believe that she had no intention of trapping him. That's an antiquated idea that is borne from the belief that a woman's only value is in making herself in-disposable to a man. I vehemently disagree with her husband's initial reaction, though I understand it. 

I think Foolish One feels guilty because she has yet to accept the fact that she has a "get out of jail free" card. She literally won a ticket to start over. She has won the lottery in terms of winning what she ultimately wants. It's unfair in the sense that she has caused so much misery and pain, yet she is getting the better end of the deal. I think this is what is causing her to feel so much internal anguish. But I feel that she has yet to accept the reality, thus barring herself from truly feeling gratitude for this lucky hand that life has dealt her. 

I say this not to bash her, but to tell her that I hope that she reflects and learns to intrinsically value this act of God (her getting pregnant) that guarantees her a faithful and dedicated husband. As of now, she is now someone to be valued, not punished. And that is an act of grace that very few of us receive when we hurt someone (not just by cheating, but by emotional abuse, cruelty, etc.).

This isn't a gift, a gift would imply that her husband gave this to her. This was no gift, this was a stroke of luck that FoolishOne would be wise to take advantage of. 

But I would caution you, FO. Don't let this babymoon period prevent you from accepting and owning the devastation you caused. You can still be the stronger individual and work to acknowledge and rectify the trauma that has affected your husband. Even if he refuses to acknowledge it for the foreseeable future, you can still be a person of character and continue to work on improving your character. 

I can almost bet that he will not want to bring up any of the affair business while you are pregnant due to the risks associated with high stress levels. I can almost bet that he won't want to bring up the affair during the first few years of your precious child's life. But I implore you to not forget. I implore you to continue digging into why you did what you did. I encourage you to cultivate continuous gratitude for this act of mercy that you don't deserve. I encourage you to privately continue digging within yourself via therapy and reading and hold yourself accountable for your actions. I believe that by doing this, you will be more than prepared and ready to handle the moment when the veneer comes off and your husband is once again reminded of your role as abuser. 

I believe that by being cognizant of this, you can work to anticipate his eventual resurgence of anger and betrayal. So instead of being blindsided by it, you can already have an array of tools at your disposal to accept and work with his anger in a compassionate and courage-filled way. 

I don't say this to bash you. I say this to give you the reality of this situation. 

I understand everyone congratulating you and encouraging you to start fresh, but I think you know deep down that this is just the calm eye of the storm. Your husband may now know who you are, but knowledge is not the same as acceptance of who you were and how you were able to betray him so severely. It sounds like he is burying that trauma in order to continue being the strong and faithful man to his wife and child. He is a man of integrity (notwithstanding his own indiscretions). 

Please don't let this act of luck and mercy make you forget the reason this situation is so complicated in the first place. Please don't forget your culpability. 

I believe you are holding yourself accountable. Just please don't forget and get comfortable. 

You are about to be a mother again, so show the strength and endurance every mother has by raising her child and owning your ****.

Your transformation over the course of your posts is proof that you are not stupid. You are not foolish. You are capable of owning your cruelty and being the man your wife deserves. 

Acknowledge the fact that you are getting what you want. Acknowledge it. You will feel bad, but I guarantee you that the gratitude you cultivate from this will be deep. It will be life changing. 

You can do it. You already are.


----------



## personofinterest

Like I said OP.....people who have chosen misery will denigrate and resent attempts at recovery.


----------



## lahdeedoo

personofinterest said:


> Like I said OP.....people who have chosen misery will denigrate and resent attempts at recovery.


And assuming that people who look at the situation realistically have chosen misery and resentment represents a reductive point of view that implies a lack of nuance and understanding.

It's not about resenting attempts at recovery. It's about understanding the reality of the situation and being prepared to handle recovery in a healthy and proactive way. It's about not falling into the trap of false recovery. It's about avoiding rug sweeping. 

It's about accepting the ****ty feelings about the situation and using them to cultivate gratitude. By ignoring how lucky she is as a result of this situation and burying the negative feelings, she could very possibly fall into the trap of "I got away with it." A lack of consequences can often cause people to not learn from their choices. 

Saying that she should remain cognizant of her actions and the resulting trauma is not ****ting on her attempt to recover. It's a reminder that she still has work to do to become the wife her husband deserves. It's a reminder that there is no such thing as a fresh start - we still have to deal with the repercussions of our actions, regardless of whether or not we are shown the mercy of forgiveness. We still have to work on being whole and rectifying the damage we have done.

Holding ourselves accountable doesn't mean we don't want recovery. It means that we seek to learn and understand our character failures and use that to become grateful and confident human beings. 

But yeah, I'm a miserable person who hates people trying to better themselves. lol

ETA: FO, I'm not saying any of this to judge you. I'm saying this because I have been in a similar situation. I have never been a cheater (though I have been the betrayed), but I have been an abuser and someone who severely hurt my own family.

I have borderline. And 6 months into my treatment I landed in the hospital with life threatening double pulmonary embolisms. The doctor's weren't sure I was going to survive since there were multiple clots in each lung. 

I was in the hospital for about a week and had to go through about a year of recovery to get back to proper health. 

During this period, my family treated me with so much grace, love, help and care. They basically didn't mention any of the trauma I put them through. They instinctively went into protector and caretaker mode - because they genuinely love me. And it was like they pushed away all of their pain in order to be there for me. Their fear of losing me outweighed their pain over what I put them through. 

I honestly thought that this meant that I could leave the trauma in the past. That if I just took advantage of the fresh start - I could avoid having to confront the real ugliness I put them through. 

I was wrong. My DBT therapist explained to me that I was given a fresh start due to my medical vulnerability, but that I couldn't forget the trauma I inflicted. That the trauma I inflicted wasn't suddenly in the past and meant to be forgotten in order to value what I have now. 

She taught me to acknowledge and understand that this event wasn't going to magically wipe the slate clean. That I still had work to do when it came to fixing myself. She said that if I failed to hold myself accountable, then I would be spitting in the face of my family's willingness to let bygones be bygones. 

She said that there are no such things as fresh starts - that our past is intrinsically tied to our future and that we must learn from that past in order to ensure a better future. 

I had to go through a period of guilt over the fact that my health emergency was the only reason that my family chose to push aside the abuse I inflicted on them. I had to sit with the feelings and then utilize them to cultivate gratitude and use that gratitude to heal myself and to ensure that I made amends to my family. 

I at first thought my therapist was being mean or being harsh. But in hindsight (5 years later), I can clearly see that she was right. I had to acknowledge how lucky I was to receive such grace and mercy. That people who abuse others are not entitled to it. I was not entitled to it. I had to accept that I had received something I didn't deserve - but by acknowledging that, I was able to use gratitude to motivate my actions. I became motivated by gratitude and joy, as opposed to guilt and shame. 

It's okay to feel guilty in the beginning - sit with it, then utilize it to propel yourself forward. Hold yourself accountable and recognize the reality of the situation. Accepting the reality allows us to truly understand and recognize how lucky we are. It allows us to still remain cognizant of the amends we need to make. Taking off the rose colored glasses allows us to face the truth while still having the courage to move forward in a responsible way. 

I can only say this because I have been there. I was the cruel person. I was the perpetrator. I was that person.


----------



## personofinterest

> *By ignoring how lucky she is as a result of this situation* and burying the negative feelings, she could very possibly fall into the trap of "I got away with it." A lack of consequences can often cause people to not learn from their choices.


Either you haven't read her entire thread or you are blind.

So which is it?


----------



## lahdeedoo

personofinterest said:


> Either you haven't read her entire thread or you are blind.
> 
> So which is it?


Been following since day 1 and my glasses work just fine :grin2: So.... neither?

Since she announced her pregnancy, people have been lavishing congrats and that this is a fresh start. It's not wrong to remind her that she still needs to do the work to fix herself in addition to being grateful for the luck. I haven't seen many people comment that her work is still not done since her post about her pregnancy. 

Instead, people have been telling her that this is an opportunity to choose eachother since they both know who the other is. That's ignoring the greater issue of taking responsibility. 

So, you're either being willfully ignorant and reactionary or you're deaf. Which is it?


----------



## personofinterest

lahdeedoo said:


> Been following since day 1 and my glasses work just fine :grin2: So.... neither?
> 
> Since she announced her pregnancy, people have been lavishing congrats and that this is a fresh start. It's not wrong to remind her that she still needs to do the work to fix herself in addition to being grateful for the luck. I haven't seen many people comment that her work is still not done since her post about her pregnancy.
> 
> Instead, people have been telling her that this is an opportunity to choose eachother since they both know who the other is. That's ignoring the greater issue of taking responsibility.
> 
> So, you're either being willfully ignorant and reactionary or you're deaf. Which is it?


I may be projecting, but I am not sure a positive pregnancy test rendered her memory wiped of what she did. In fact, she herself has expressed concerns over why he is staying, the timing of the pregnancy, etc.
And yes, most people offer congratulations when someone is pregnant. So what?

Let's not be disingenuous. You don't REALLY think she forgot she had an affair or thinks that all her work is over.

She isn't dumb, and neither are you.

Like I said, there was too much happy in the last couple of pages, and let's face it, a WW shouldn't smile. She might forget what a 'ho she is.


----------



## lahdeedoo

personofinterest said:


> I may be projecting, but I am not sure a positive pregnancy test rendered her memory wiped of what she did. In fact, she herself has expressed concerns over why he is staying, the timing of the pregnancy, etc.
> And yes, most people offer congratulations when someone is pregnant. So what?
> 
> Let's not be disingenuous. You don't REALLY think she forgot she had an affair or thinks that all her work is over.
> 
> She isn't dumb, and neither are you.
> 
> Like I said, there was too much happy in the last couple of pages, and let's face it, a WW shouldn't smile. She might forget what a 'ho she is.


There's nothing wrong with congratulations, but it's not okay to forget the focus of the thread - which is to heal herself and her marriage. 

I don't think she has forgotten her affair - DDay is still incredibly fresh. But I know from experience that the welcome reprieve from being reminded of the trauma by her BH can sometimes lead to a failure to take responsibility. It's not something that happens due to malicious intent - it's easy to be hyper-vigilant when we are in a state of chaos and strife, but the human mind tends to ease up on awareness when we enter a state of comfort and joy. This doesn't mean that joy is wrong, or something to be rejected. It means that we don't allow ourselves to get comfortable. Nowhere did I state that she will do that. I'm not a fortune teller. I am saying that it's a blind spot she should be aware of going forward, as it was something I had to be constantly aware of when I went through my own healing post-near death experience.

I should have stated this more clearly in my original post, and that's a failure on my part, but I think the issue is the abrupt change in the focus of the comments. It's not impossible to congratulate her on a new lil' bubba while still encouraging her to be aware and not get comfortable in her healing. 

Who said she couldn't be happy for this little life she gets to love? 

You're equating consistent and long-term responsibility for healing with being self-deprecating and self-hating. Happiness and realism are not mutually exclusive - when they go hand in hand they can lead to a stronger foundation of authenticity.

And I don't think you're dumb either, in fact, I really enjoyed your above post as it made me pause to think about how I am coming off in my words. Intent does not always guarantee desired impact. And that's something I need to remember. In hindsight, I probably could have said what I said in this post from the get-go instead of projecting my own memories of failure onto FO.

I feel strongly about this because of my own experience. I went from feeling guilty and unworthy of my family's unconditional love and immediate forgiveness to getting comfortable with the new status quo and it almost lead me to disregard my responsibility to become better.


----------



## FoolishOne

I am in agreement. I don't want to use this as an excuse to slack off and forget the work I need to do. My husband and I are not forgetting. We still talk about the affair and our feelings on it. We talk about all of it. He is just a lot less interested in the details or less so at least and more interested in building a secure marriage. The resentment seems to be easing.

I know a good part of his change in attitude is simply him being a gentleman and him giving into his basic instinct to protect and care for his family. I have no intention of taking advantage of that to bury my issues, or issues in our relationship. My husband is a caring and giving man. He is the type to stop and ask someone who has a flat tire if they need help. He gets enjoyment out of helping and protecting others.

So thank you. I don't mind the reminder at all. It helps keep my head in the game.

And for those of you seeking to protect me or whatnot. I'm not forgetting to enjoy this either. 

I do admit I am feeling super giddy lately. He has been an absolute prince in the last few weeks. But at times that makes me sad. Or the thought that I could treat such a great husband so poorly does at least. I mean Jesus Christ I could have had all this if I just asked and let him in. I was such a fool. I'm just happy he is giving me the chance to be his wife. I'll never forget he didn't have to. 

Neither do I believe this is a done deal. He could trigger a year from now and simply decide he can't do it. That's my fear, but I choose to not let fear rule me. 

AAANNNNDDDD the one good thing for every post. We are going to work on the baby room together. We are going to do it all together. In the past I would have simply told him what I wanted and let him do it. But I suggested we do it all as a team. We can bond more over the project. Work on our communication. He was pleased with the suggestion. 

It's already helped. We started talking about colors and he mentioned the color of the car he had when we first started dating. It lead into a talk about us during that time, and what we did in that car. We where laughing and giggling and cuddling. Talking about how I backed my car into that car. How he didn't repair the small dent because I made the dent and how he used to make jokes about how the dent made the car worth more. Gave it an "artistic touch".

Another happy event. My oldest has agreed to come visit more often and actually went out of her way to call me and talk about her life and her troubles. It felt nice. I'm still in her mind and heart. I know my husband probably did a little prodding, but I'll take what I can get. It's a crack. I'll widen that crack or die trying.

The youngest has been commenting on how different my husband and me are around each other lately. Making retching noises and calling us gross when we get a little intimate in front of her. We just laugh at her. She is more lively and involved at home lately and I've been making sure to reinforce my bond with her. She is excited about the baby. Wants a boy just like her dad. I have to admit a boy sounds nice. 

I'm going to enjoy what I have right now, but I won't forget the past. I'm going to keep working on myself and reconciliation FOREVER. Why stop? It and me can always be improved and there is no down side. My effort is also a major comfort to my husband. So hell yeah im going to do it, and never stop.


----------



## Violet28

lahdeedoo said:


> This isn't a gift, a gift would imply that her husband gave this to her. This was no gift, this was a stroke of luck that FoolishOne would be wise to take advantage of.


Every child is a gift, whether intended or not. Implying that she should 'take advantage of it' makes it seem kind of sordid.


----------



## FoolishOne

Violet28 said:


> lahdeedoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't a gift, a gift would imply that her husband gave this to her. This was no gift, this was a stroke of luck that FoolishOne would be wise to take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> Every child is a gift, whether intended or not. Implying that she should 'take advantage of it' makes it seem kind of sordid.
Click to expand...

Yes.


----------



## FoolishOne

Lahdeedoo you also make good points. I will not be surprised at all should my husband have episodes of anger / confusion / sadness / mistrust / disgust. I should be prepared and empathetic to his feelings and suffering. I know the journey never really ends. I don't think anyone is really saying otherwise though. 

Does anyone believe I should wear a yoke of shame forever? Does anyone think im a garbage human who deserves to be unhappy? Probably not. 

And neither do I.

Does anyone think I've been completely absolved of my sins and done all the work required. Does anyone think my marriage is rock solid right now? Does anyone think I'm the perfect wife? Probably not.

And neither do I.

I think my situation is somewhere in the middle. Not determined quite yet. I mean it hasn't even been 2 months since we really started working this. 😛 I have a long road ahead. 

I'm not afraid to work on me, his healing, and our marriage till the last day I live. Every day. Even should he give up. I owe it to him, me , my children. And I just really love him.

So I don't think you two really need to argue with each other when I'm pretty sure you believe similarly. Both of you are helpful to me in the end.


----------



## lahdeedoo

FoolishOne said:


> Lahdeedoo you also make good points. I will not be surprised at all should my husband have episodes of anger / confusion / sadness / mistrust / disgust. I should be prepared and empathetic to his feelings and suffering. I know the journey never really ends. I don't think anyone is really saying otherwise though.
> 
> Does anyone believe I should wear a yoke of shame forever? Does anyone think im a garbage human who deserves to be unhappy? Probably not.
> 
> And neither do I.
> 
> Does anyone think I've been completely absolved of my sins and done all the work required. Does anyone think my marriage is rock solid right now? Does anyone think I'm the perfect wife? Probably not.
> 
> And neither do I.
> 
> I think my situation is somewhere in the middle. Not determined quite yet. I mean it hasn't even been 2 months since we really started working this. 😛 I have a long road ahead.
> 
> I'm not afraid to work on me, his healing, and our marriage till the last day I live. Every day. Even should he give up. I owe it to him, me , my children. And I just really love him.
> 
> So I don't think you two really need to argue with each other when I'm pretty sure you believe similarly. Both of you are helpful to me in the end.


Hi FO, 

I'm really glad you were able to understand what I was trying to say. 

My first post was full of a lot of projections that wound up overshadowing the message I wanted to convey. For that, I apologize. I wanted to delete them, but seeing how you were brave enough to keep your earliest posts up to show your progress, I should do the same. 

I was never ****ting on your right to happiness - living in shame just leads to more selfish behavior because it makes us give up on even trying to change our circumstances. It renders us unable to rise to the challenge of making amends and learning to be content as individuals. So that is not what I was trying to say. 

More like - as we embrace and strengthen the structure that is happiness and second chances, we need to be realistic and understand that the damage is still there like a wine stain on the carpet. That doesn't mean we should leave the stain there as a constant reminder - instead (IMO) we should get to work scrubbing it as often as need be (i.e. dedicate ourselves to making amends and working on reconciliation) until the stain is either gone, or it is nothing but a faint mark on the carpet that reminds us of two things: 1. The pain we inflicted, so we can keep ourselves in check and 2. The healthy pride that comes with knowing how hard we worked to remove it. I believe they go hand in hand. 

I know you are in a weird in-between, but it's good that you are aware of the potential blindspot that occurs when we allow ourselves to get comfortable with the new status quo. Again, we don't do it maliciously - I just learned that our brains can ease up on keeping our self-work a priority once the chaos of the situation fades into every day life. 

Just one more thing - You wrote: "The resentment seems to be easing." Please be aware that resentment is a poison that must be purged from the system over time. Just be prepared for it to resurface (as in sometimes it will seem to be getting worse, while the next moment it can seem to get better) as your husband processes it and releases it from his body. I feel like as he heals, it will eventually be eradicated from his psyche and he will be able to enter a new mental/emotional flow that is built on the both of you working hard to rebuild your marriage on a new and authentic foundation. 

On an unrelated note: Lil' bubbas are amazing. I don't want children myself, but my sister has a baby and I love that kid more than I ever thought possible. I think my love for my niece is even deeper than I expected because I know I have worked hard to make amends to my sister and our relationship has become so much stronger and full of love than ever before. I'd like to believe that my work to rebuild is what caused my sister to give me a second chance at being a mainstay in her life. My niece is a reminder of what I stood to lose and what I have to protect. So congrats  Although I am loving every milestone my baby girl reaches (she's two, so she's very interactive and open to learning), I gotta say that my favorite of them all was when she was between 6-10 months. She was so chubby and would babble incoherently and it was adorable. She was this little chunky sack of flour that just laughed and loved to cuddle. I loved the affection that cuddling built. Now she doesn't like to be held and instead wants me to be outside chasing her or reading to her lol


----------



## Taxman

F1
THe timing stinks, however, this is my story. I did something, just as stupid as you. Thirty plus years ago, I cheated. She had a revenge affair. We were both very young and just plain dumb. We also realized that we were in love, and did the MC, and IC thing, and so we reconciled. It was rocky as most reconciliations are. A year into the reconciliation, our BC essentially failed. Our son was born nearly three years from the day we first split. We took it as a sign that we were meant to be a strong and unified family. We removed what pulled us apart, and we fixed the damage that was done. We are about to celebrate our 41st. Our eldest, a physician, is getting married this May. Our son will be master of ceremonies (former stand-up comedian). There is light at the end of this tunnel. Believe me. Listen, any guy that went through what we did, and then has a career based partially in divorce, has to have learned a lesson or two along the way.


----------



## oldtruck

That light in the tunnel?

It is on the front of old engine 99.


----------



## personofinterest

oldtruck said:


> That light in the tunnel?
> 
> It is on the front of old engine 99.


Reddit called. They miss you.

Seriously, what is the point of your snarky post?


----------



## Adelais

Your husband has been with you for many years. Yes, what you did was egregious, and he said in so many words that you have trapped him with the baby.

However, it seems his demeanor is changing. While he will never forget what you did, the pain of it can lesson, and he can temporarily forget for a while. During those times, he can also feel real love for you again. Even when he remembers, he can feel real love for you.

I hope your marriage makes it. It sounds like you are truly remorseful, and that is what every betrayed spouse needs to begin to heal.

Regarding your anemia, this isn't your first baby, and you know you need to take your prenatal vitamins. Your baby will get what it needs, so you need to give your body what you need.

Best wishes.


----------



## Taxman

oldtruck said:


> That light in the tunnel?
> 
> It is on the front of old engine 99.


Dude, not helpful. Wayward, betrayed or otherwise, everyone has pain.


----------



## SunCMars

Taxman said:


> Dude, not helpful. Wayward, betrayed or otherwise, everyone has pain.


Agreed.

Respectfully, some of it is earned, some given, none yearned.


----------



## BluesPower

You know, what I don't get is that we finally get ONE wayward wife that comes here for support. She is not all the way there yet, but after some hard advice, SHE FINALLY GETS IT. 

She confesses to everything, and starts her marriage on the right foot to finally have a real reconciliation. 

And some people dog her for something? Anything? 

A woman that finally get it, and is open an honest, that loves her husband, loves her family and finally gets her head straight. 

This woman is to be commended, praised, and prayed for. 

But no, some ass hat has say ****ty things... Well FU Buddy...


----------



## Rubix Cubed

BluesPower said:


> But no, some ass hat has say ****ty things... Well FU Buddy...


 Dude seriously?
You call people stupid and ignorant all the time, like daily. Oldtruck stated his opinion rather bluntly, likely the same way you or I would.
I agree she may be getting some heat, but if she can't take it here, she sure as hell won't be able to take it from her BS.


----------



## BluesPower

Rubix Cubed said:


> Dude seriously?
> You call people stupid and ignorant all the time, like daily. Oldshirt stated his opinion rather bluntly, likely the same way you or I would.
> 
> I agree she may be getting some heat, but if she can't take it here, she sure as hell won't be able to take it from her BS.


First off, it was oldtruck not old shirt. 

Second of all... Look, in a matter of days @FoolishOne listened to some super hard advice about what she was doing wrong, what she had done wrong, and what she was still doing wrong. She had the balls to stick around, listen to some super hard things, and do the right thing. 

This woman DESERVES to be praised, at this point. She could have confessed to all of it and her husband could have filed the next day. Even with that risk, she had that courage. 

And for someone to dog her at this point... no sir, not right at all. 

How many of us would have literally given our left nut to have a woman, like this come to us, and confess knowing that if we wanted to we could leave her in the dirt. I know I would have loved to have my Ex W do that when I still loved her. When I cared. 

No at this point I think that she deserves respect and as much helpful advice about whatever she is going through as we can possible give. 

I will try and do that. And I will stand up for her and anyone that is doing the right thing till the bitter end. 

As much as she was a selfish POS, look at what she has become. In the end isnt that what we want to try and get people to see?

Don't we want somehow to get people to see what they are doing wrong and help them to do right, to become better people?

And yes I am harsh at times when the situation calls for it. I don't apologize for it and never will.

But with this person, @FoolishOne, she deserves all the positive help she can get...


----------



## SunCMars

May I post a thought, a mere thought, one having not a lick of substance?

Not all posters are real.
Not all posters are the real deal.

Some are the enemy of marriage.
Some are the friend of marriage that reveal themselves as once opposite.

Why?

To make a point, a point rarely witnessed, an actively contrived notion in motion, a highly sought after result on Infidelity Boards.


Nemesis-


----------



## BluesPower

SunCMars said:


> May I post a thought, a mere thought, one having not a lick of substance?
> 
> Not all posters are real.
> Not all posters are the real deal.
> 
> Some are the enemy of marriage.
> Some are the friend of marriage that reveal themselves as once opposite.
> 
> Why?
> 
> To make a point, a point rarely witnessed, an actively contrived notion in motion, a highly sought after result on Infidelity Boards.
> 
> 
> Nemesis-


I will bet that you are saying some really great stuff...

I just wish I could understand it...


----------



## Taxman

I am for gentility and kindness. I was watching Bill Maher's show on Friday. He had Barbra Steisand as a guest. She said something that I am finding with grave regularity: The concept of Kindness seems to be losing ground in the current milieu. I was always taught, that if you can't say something nice, it is better not to say anything at all. I may be sarcastic, but I do try my damnedest to be kind. I have, however, developed a method of dealing with my government. (I live in Canada, and deal with Canadian tax authorities. I have dealt with US tax people, but they do not seem to get my methods) Generally, when I am dealing with taxation people, if it is a male, I become his best buddy forever on the phone. However, I have been admonished by my partners that it seriously sounds like I am trying to woo some of the female tax people into the sack. It is not my intention, but a lower voice, and a little bit of seduction, and I have gotten what I wanted.


----------



## oldtruck

personofinterest said:


> Reddit called. They miss you.
> 
> Seriously, what is the point of your snarky post?


What is snarky to you some find funny. No insult to the person that
inspired the joke.

However you can go to Reddit yourself. edit to add I am done with this
particular conversation.


----------



## personofinterest

oldtruck said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reddit called. They miss you.
> 
> Seriously, what is the point of your snarky post?
> 
> 
> 
> What is snarky to you some find funny. No insult to the person that
> inspired the joke.
> 
> However you can go to Reddit yourself.
Click to expand...

Yeah.....I doubt most people, including the OP, found it funny.

At least own it.


----------



## SunCMars

personofinterest said:


> Yeah.....I doubt most people, including the OP, found it funny.
> 
> At least own it.


My...

You are getting big for your britches, Missy! :surprise:

Wa' Happin? :smile2:


----------



## Rubix Cubed

BluesPower said:


> First off, it was oldtruck not old shirt.


 Correction noted and post edited to that effect. I guess that's a sign of reading here too much.

As to the rest, I am not judging Foolishone. I actually do think she is doing the hardwork, but for all you know her hubby may be just like oldtruck, so she should use any criticizing here as a foil to temper her response to her husband if he happens to be as harsh or snide in the future if the "baby happy" wears off. Consider it "practice".


----------



## personofinterest

SunCMars said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.....I doubt most people, including the OP, found it funny.
> 
> At least own it.
> 
> 
> 
> My...
> 
> You are getting big for your britches, Missy! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png" border="0" alt="" title="EEK! Surprise!" ></a>
> 
> Wa' Happin? <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
Click to expand...

Did you just call me FAT?????


----------



## SunCMars

personofinterest said:


> Did you just call me FAT?????


Nope, your' good!


----------



## skerzoid

FoolishOne said:


> So I don't think you two really need to argue with each other when I'm pretty sure you believe similarly. Both of you are helpful to me in the end.


How about another update to stop all this thread jacking?:|


----------



## [email protected]

Dear Foolish, I went back and reread the entire posting. I'm sorry. I believe your marriage is finished.


----------



## FoolishOne

[email protected] said:


> Dear Foolish, I went back and reread the entire posting. I'm sorry. I believe your marriage is finished.


You're welcome to your opinion. Hell, maybe it is fact. Who knows? My husband. And he says there is hope. 

Honestly there is no need to defend me at all fellow TAM posters. I can take it. I was surprised to see so much activity on my thread in so little time.

Just let the harsh ones say what they want. I do. I read to see if they have some constructive things to say and move on. It's barely a blip on the radar for me. Though it does make me feel good that others here like me enough (or the work I've done) to defend me, it's not really needed.

My husband's brother takes every chance he can to mean mug and insult me. Some random stranger on the internet is NOTHING compared to that. I'm sure the feelings and thought come from their own experiences. So let them express themselves. 

It's all water off a ducks feathers. My husband and children are the only ones who's words can destroy me. So have at it. 

Not much to update as far as our relationship. My husband has some trouble at his business. One of his employees had a major mess up with a fork lift badly injuring one other employee and causing some pretty massive damage to A LOT of inventory. He has been freaking out about it. It's causing trouble with meeting order demands and he has been tied up. The inventory is a total loss. I don't know the numbers but he says it's pretty big and still being caculated. 

I've just been making sure to take care of myself and him. I have been as supportive as I can. Doing my best to make sure he gets good food in him when he comes home and making sure he can relax. 

He has been working non stop. Calling in favors and begging for extentions. Handling his injured employee who may have trouble walking again. It's a cluster ****. Affair talks have been shelved while he handles it. I won't forget it though. I just feel like forcing an affair talk on him when he is exhausted and stressed wouild be counter productive and more about helping me than him.

That's about it. If so much back and forth wasn't happening in my thread I probably wouldn't have posted at all.


----------



## Taxman

Real life has an interesting way of making one step back and deal with other things. It doesn't hurt the situation, and may help him gain some clarity. One appreciates that you are supporting him through this situation, if at all possible, offer help in any capacity. Even the smallest gesture lets him know he is not alone. Hopefully a lot of the losses will be covered by insurance.


----------



## Marc878

@FoolishOne I'm not big on R for a number of reasons but you can never tell how these things are going to work out.

It doesn't sound quite as bleak as it was before. (When they are emotionless it's like they've already made their mind up). Not a good sign.

The best thing you can do is keep working on your issues.

The one thing most BS's hate is that it seems cheaters always win in an R. Cheater gets to go out and have fun on the side then comes back and wants the marriage after.

I don't think revenge affairs do anything but cause more damage and most BS's seem to regret them long term. However, in your case it may have blunted his anger about the unfairness of your actions. Not to downplay it's blown up another family in the process.

It's a bit to early to tell yet.

Remember this. An affair may end a marriage but the lies and mistrust it causes will end a marriage. You did a good thing on confessing. That can only help you even if it goes to D. Honesty and truth fixes a lot of things.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Marc878

If this does go to D it must be a fair and equitable split. You would be extremely foolish to sign away everything. You have yourself and kids to look after.

That icludes a 50/50 asset split and child support.

Don't let your guilt and emotions overrule your common sense.

If you can't take care of yourself you won't be able to support your kids either.

Use your head here.


----------



## Violet28

FoolishOne said:


> My husband's brother takes every chance he can to mean mug and insult me. Some random stranger on the internet is NOTHING compared to that. I'm sure the feelings and thought come from their own experiences. So let them express themselves.


Have you ever had a talk with his brother, just the two of you? You try explaining how much you regret it and are working to change for the better.



FoolishOne said:


> Not much to update as far as our relationship. My husband has some trouble at his business. One of his employees had a major mess up with a fork lift badly injuring one other employee and causing some pretty massive damage to A LOT of inventory. He has been freaking out about it. It's causing trouble with meeting order demands and he has been tied up. The inventory is a total loss. I don't know the numbers but he says it's pretty big and still being calculated.


Insurance might cover it in the end. :smile2: Another good reason not to quit your job yet though.



FoolishOne said:


> I've just been making sure to take care of myself and him. I have been as supportive as I can. Doing my best to make sure he gets good food in him when he comes home and making sure he can relax.
> 
> He has been working non-stop. Calling in favors and begging for extensions. Handling his injured employee who may have trouble walking again. It's a cluster ****. Affair talks have been shelved while he handles it. I won't forget it though. I just feel like forcing an affair talk on him when he is exhausted and stressed would be counterproductive and more about helping me than him.


Providing respect, love, comfort and affection to your man is a wife's main job, sounds like you are being a good support to him. Feed him dinner, listen to him talk and give him a massage, bout all you can do. Talk to him more when things ease up at work, he probably isn't completely sure yet anyway, he needs time too.


----------



## FoolishOne

My husband has told me this isn't the end for his business. Just a bump in the road. The cost of the inventory while large isn't so bad that it will destroy us. Not even close. It will just be a low profit year for that one business. He has other sources of income as well. His brother and him are partners on another business. 

So financially it seems we are fine. Just a set back. He is mostly worried about his friend ( the injured employee. They where somewhat close. He was a manager in the warehouse.) And keeping his clients. The inventory isn't that much of a big deal. Or so he says. The number sound large but he says it's fine. Iinsurance may still cover it though he says there attitude seems to be searching for a way out of covering it.

I feel bad for his friend. His knee is badly damaged. It got pinned under massive inventory shelves. He has to go and get a bunch of surgery done. The doctors are pretty positive about his chances of full range of motion though.

About his brother. No. We don't talk alone. He can't stand me. I don't blame him. My husband and his brother are VERY close. They had a bad childhood and protect eachother fiercely. My husband would probably kill to protect his brother and the other way around as well. They shared a bedroom until they were 17. Their cousin is all a part of the inner group they have going. They moved out of thier mothers house and noved in with thier geandmother when they where 15. Thier cousin lived there as his parents where pretty crappy too. They are like the three musketeers. They both hate me, but his brother particularly so.

I don't know how to approach them on this. I've tried. His cousin seems willing to carry a conversation but he is cold. One word responses and some eye rolls. His brother sneers at me. Throws veiled jibes at me. Sometimes openly insults me. I'm pretty sure he is telling my husband to leave me every chance he gets. He is just protecting my husband I know. I don't hate him for it.

I should ask him to talk. Try to apologize. I should have thought of that already. His cousin too. They love my husband dearly so I always felt so ashamed in front of them. 

My husband isn't close with his parents at all. They failed him miserably. I think that is part of why he is so fierce about our children and being in their lives. My husband's parents where both alcoholics to an extreme. They abandoned my husband and his brother in many ways. Divorced early in his childhood. My husband has never been a drinker to an almost priest like level. He doesn't drink unless it's a special occasion or his brother and cousin drag him out and basicly force him to drink and I have seen him drunk maybe 10 times in my life. He almost refuses to get drunk. He remembers his father getting so drunk he would try to hit him and his younger brother and my husband would end up fighting his dad. He told me the first time he had a fist fight with his dad was probably at about age 13. I cant even imagine that. His life during childhood is drasticly different from the life I had. I feel extremely privileged.

Sometimes I think that is why he stayed. He doesn't want our children to deal with that. He has talked about his parents here and there and the stories he tells me are horrible. He saw way too much way too young. He only had his brother and to a lesser extent his cousin to lean on, but if anything it was the other way around. His brother leaned on him. My hisband is the older brother. 

He had a grandmother who was more a mother to him than his actual mother but she died about 2 years ago. He took it hard. I wasn't there for him as much as I should have been. At the time he just wanted distance and time alone. I thought that was just how he dealt with it, but now I know he didn't see me as someone worth leaning on.

I have offered to help him however I can with his current issues but I simply don't have the knowledge. Orders, profit margins, sales sheets, taxes, payroll, sales routes. I don't know any of it beyond surface level. He has this big business and I really don't know as much about it as I should. If I walked into his business (offices or warehouse) I doubt many of his employees would even know who I am. Our daughters on the otherhand are well know there. One is planning on getting a business degree and coming back to work for dad. My husband is all on board and plans on handing the company over to her one day if she puts the work in and proves herself capable.

I have been to some of the Christmas parties and employee cookouts but there are a pretty good number of employees and I always felt like an outsider. So I mostly avoided those get togethers. I shouldn't have. I should have been there to support him as his wife. But I was all about me. 

It is hard to insert myself into portions of my husband's life that I have avoided for years. I feel like an outsider. Sometimes when I'm around people who have been part of my husband's life for a while and they see me for the first time they will ask who I am and my husband will say "my wife" and I feel like such **** for not even knowing or being know by people my husband has known for years. I feel like such a crap wife in those moments. I sometimes feel like people my husband knows and people who work for him are silently judging me. I worry they know the truth about me.

Even more than that. Sometimes even when I'm just around random people it can feel like people are looking at me like I'm garbage. Silently judging me. I know its in my head , but its hard to not think that sometimes. Is that normal? I wish there where a few more wayward wives here to help with those types of thoughts. 

My counselor is great, but she hasn't ever been cheated on or cheated before so I can sometimes take her words with a grain of salt. She has also been talking a bit too much about how our relationship was before my cheating and it sounds a lot like blame shifting at times. She assures me it's not but it can sound like it at times. It feels like she is trying to give me an easy out so I don't feel so guilty and ashamed of what I've done. She talks about forgiving myself a lot. 

I don't know if I will keep her for too much longer. There are other councilors. Maybe I can find one who specializes in infidelity? I know some MC do But what about IC. Are there ones geared towards that? Ones that don't believe infidelity is a byproduct of a crappy marriage? A year ir two ago i would have been all on board with that line of reasoning but not any more.


----------



## FoolishOne

Marc

A few months ago I would have told you I will take nothing. Now not so much. I have a child to think about.

BUT. My husband has enough stored away and makes enough that I don't really NEED a 50 50 split and heavy alimony to survive comfortably. My husband wouldn't want to leave me destitute anyways.

If It comes to divorce I would ask for enough to support a child and provide a comfortable and safe environment for them. No more. I don't need a big house and a sports car. 

I also don't believe I have earned half of my husband's assets. It seems greedy to ask that of him. I didn't really support him through building any of it. Sure on paper I was his wife, but was I really? 

That's something to think about another day. Hopefully never. My husband has already told me he has no intention of leaving me out in the rain if it comes to divorce so I'm not worried.


----------



## personofinterest

[email protected] said:


> Dear Foolish, I went back and reread the entire posting. I'm sorry. I believe your marriage is finished.


 No surprise here. I've read almost every post you've made. You think all marriages are finished if someone is married to a woman.


----------



## farsidejunky

@FoolishOne:

In reference to your counselor, there is a fine line between being held accountable and fulfilling an unhealthy need due to toxic shame (punishing yourself because that's what you believe you deserve).

I think you are aware enough regarding blame-shifting that you can simply point it out to her when you believe she's going down that road.

That said, taking a close look at how your marriage was prior to the affair is important to analyze because from that you can truly determine what your needs from the relationship are.

So don't be afraid to go down that road with her. But also don't be afraid to hold her accountable if she begins to blame your husband.

Trust the process.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## BluesPower

You know, you do need to forgive yourself for all of it. 

But that does not mean that you need to stop there. 

Yes you and your husband, when the time is right, need to talk to his brother and his cousin. You need to apologize to them for hurting your husband, and in tern hurting them. 

That may be too touchy feely for your H, and maybe even them, but it needs to happen. 

And, you need to start being by your H's side every time that you can. Meet the people, learn about his stuff. Whatever. 

Just hang in there, keep doing the right thing. I believe that this is going to work out...


----------



## TDSC60

Are the brother or the cousin married?

Discuss it with your husband before you attempt to apologize to them. He will know if the time is right or not. I suspect he told them all he found out about your affair years ago when he had the PI follow you to OM's house after DDay and they were part of the discussion about what path to take.


----------



## personofinterest

I agree to hold off on talking to brothers and cousins. First, that should be discussed with your husband. Second, your are pregnant and do not need undue stress (if they are going to become verbally abusive). Third, really the main person you should be focused on is your husband. I get that some people think you need to make amends to everyone who ever knew you, but really, your marriage is the priority, not extended family.

The best way to help the brother and cousin is to display continual, long term care for your husband.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Your husband needs to talk to his brother and cousin and tell them the negativity and abuse needs to stop.


----------



## DjDjani

You know, I realy hate cheaters. But,in your case,if you are realy beeing honest about your attitude now,i think that you deserve a second chanse. But,why on earth didnt you went to IC and really speak with your husband about your problems in a marriage before you desided to have an affair? What did you espect to happen? You to live married and have another man besides your husband for the rest of your life? And think that your husband will never find out right? Well,now you need to be model wife to him and hope that he has in him to put everything behind him. I wish you good luck.


----------



## personofinterest

DjDjani said:


> You know, I realy hate cheaters. But,in your case,if you are realy beeing honest about your attitude now,i think that you deserve a second chanse. But,why on earth didnt you went to IC and really speak with your husband about your problems in a marriage before you desided to have an affair? What did you espect to happen? You to live married and have another man besides your husband for the rest of your life? And think that your husband will never find out right? Well,now you need to be model wife to him and hope that he has in him to put everything behind him. I wish you good luck.



Would you happen to know where the OP could purchase a tardis or a flux capacitor?


----------



## Marc878

FoolishOne said:


> I think people think my husband is mad because I'm pregnant. He isn't. He was at first because he thought I skipped birth control on purpose. I didn't. But you can see how he might think that... right?
> 
> My husband's feeling are still whirling around. His trust is still low. But he is warming up.
> 
> A good sign. Keep working your end
> 
> Someone said I might consider not putting my husband's name on the birth certificate. To let him know he doesn't have to take responsibility.
> 
> Nope, if it's his he maybe offended at this.
> 
> That sounds good on paper.... But I know my husband and he has already made his stance clear. He is all on board for the child. Already talking names. Touches my belly a lot. Wants a son badly. Says he wants to do man things with a son. Raising daughters is great, but he wants to have a little buddy instead of little princess this time. He isn't dead set on a boy though. We both know it's random (obviously duh).
> 
> If I approach him and offer this, I already know his answer. He will not back out. It feels somewhat like play acting if I was to do that at this point. Giving him an option I already know he won't accept in an attempt to seem like a martyr. I would rather not play games like that. Maybe I'm over thinking it. I know the advice came with the best of intentions but i dont think it works for us.
> 
> You let him decide. This is his life too. He'll be fine with another child
> 
> The excellent advice to not live in my head so much seems good at this point.
> 
> Besides the worry that He feels trapped, the issues concerning my pregnancy are being solved. He is mostly just worried about my anemia. I've been feeling weak lately. It's not horrible. Just tired a lot.
> 
> He told me to quit my job. I think it's a option. It's not like I make much, but im pretty sure its way to soon for that. My doctor has me cleared for work. My husband is just worried about the baby and my health. But I am worried about what to do with my time. I'm not really a reader and t.v is boring as hell. I find I don't really have many hobbies of my own. I would obviously go back to work after the baby is a little older. I enjoy my work. It's not like I had a high stress job anyways. My husband is the one who arranged my job through a friend of his.
> 
> Someone asked how far along I am. 7 weeks. So a little before I started this thread. Though I didn't know until a little after. I held the info for a week. Which I regret. More of me being in my own head. Letting fear control my decisions.
> 
> Stay out of the wayward mindset. Hiding things is what got you here. Total honesty and transparency from here on.
> 
> I want to leave this post on a high note. My councilor told me to not fixate on negatives so much.
> 
> It's silly and doesn't mean much in the big picture and I'm sure doesn't really mean much to anyone besides me, but I'll tell anyways because it gave me hope and filled me with happiness.
> 
> A few nights ago I woke up to my husband spooning with me with one hand under my waist and the other on my belly. My back to him. He kissed me on the back of my neck and went to sleep. I didn't say or do anything, but that was like heaven to me. He hasn't been much of a cuddler for a long time. When I woke up in the morning he was already out of bed (he's a morning person. Takes jogs to start the day.) So I didn't say anything. I'm going to hold onto that. Keep it to myself (besides you fine anonymous people. Sshhh don't tell.) Whenever things get hard I'll think about that. It's one piece of affection he has shown that I know is real. Really real. I don't think he knew I woke up. The gesture wasn't for my benefit. It was just for him. My mind keeps going back to that. It's just a little thing, but it feels so big to me. It's a spark. An ember. A half seen image of what could be. Hope that keeps me going.
> 
> A good thing and you'll need these.
> 
> Not everything I'm feeling is negative. I just seem to concentrate a bit too much on it and it seems only negative things happen because I bring all the negative here to this board while seeking advise. I'll try to start sharing more of the positive here.


Get your husband involved with the issue around his family. They are protective of one anotheir. Let your H make the decision on how to handle this. Communication is key to your current and future success. This will take time and patience on your part. Put yourself in their shoes. 

This should dissipate with time and seeing you change. Most people want/like to forgive. Give them a reason to.


----------



## Cynthia

Marc878 said:


> Get your husband involved with the issue around his family. They are protective of one anotheir. Let your H make the decision on how to handle this. Communication is key to your current and future success. This will take time and patience on your part. Put yourself in their shoes.
> 
> This should dissipate with time and seeing you change. Most people want/like to forgive. Give them a reason to.


Yes. These men need to stop treating you badly. Ignoring you is one thing, but the abusive language ie: insulting you, needs to stop. Your husband has chosen to stay with you and while they don't need to agree or to like it, it's not okay for them to be rude to you. This isn't someone you can do anything about. This is something that doesn't have to come up today, but if you are going to see them and have to put up with that it would be appropriate for you to mention your husband they are hurting you and you want him to have a talk with them about it.


----------



## Slow Hand

I may have missed it, but did your husband request or did you offer a DNA test?


----------



## personofinterest

Slow Hand said:


> I may have missed it, but did your husband request or did you offer a DNA test?


 If there was no sexual contact with the other man any time around when this baby was conceived, ADN a test is not necessary.


----------



## FoolishOne

Never crossed our mind. Maybe it did his but he hasn't said anything. Should I offer? Would that make it seem like I had other affairs? 

I have zero doubts about the paternity of the children, but its not really about MY doubts right? I don't know how to feel about this. I would rather not bring it up, but is that just me avoiding an uncomfortable topic? 

If he showed any concerns about this topic I would jump to get the testing done.

I have read a forum thread (it's either here or another forum. Can't remember.) about a woman who did paternity fraud on her husband with twins and joked about it with friends. It's horrifying stuff and one thing as a woman I will never have to deal with. It can be hard to even wrap my head around how that must feel.


----------



## personofinterest

A normal man who has not spent a lot of time on forums is not going to expect you to offer ADN a test. If he asks for one I would definitely be willing to take it, but don't offer. A lot of the things that seem normal on forums are really abnormal out in the real world.


----------



## SunCMars

personofinterest said:


> Would you happen to know where the OP could purchase a tardis or a flux capacitor?


And a DMC-12 to stuff the flux capacitor into. 
If you have to travel you might as Orwellian do it in style.

Be careful on the turns and the twists found in virgin time, a time never violated before.

Where the flux wave is slower and more regressive. 
The time machine going back into time, to that point that needs the wished-for correction.
Don't they all.


----------



## Slow Hand

personofinterest said:


> If there was no sexual contact with the other man any time around when this baby was conceived, ADN a test is not necessary.


How do you know? How does her husband know? How would anyone but FO know?


----------



## Slow Hand

FoolishOne said:


> Never crossed our mind. Maybe it did his but he hasn't said anything. Should I offer? Would that make it seem like I had other affairs?
> 
> I have zero doubts about the paternity of the children, but its not really about MY doubts right? I don't know how to feel about this. I would rather not bring it up, but is that just me avoiding an uncomfortable topic?
> 
> If he showed any concerns about this topic I would jump to get the testing done.
> 
> I have read a forum thread (it's either here or another forum. Can't remember.) about a woman who did paternity fraud on her husband with twins and joked about it with friends. It's horrifying stuff and one thing as a woman I will never have to deal with. It can be hard to even wrap my head around how that must feel.


I’m not saying the baby’s not your husbands baby, just that with the previous deceitful games you played, he may end up requesting one because he may not believe you and could wait to spring it on you when the baby is born. It’s not the same as you, you know the baby is yours, unfortunately men have to take the word of the mother or test for it. 
You’ve come a long way, I wish you well. I’m not trying to bring you down.


----------



## FoolishOne

Slow Hand said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never crossed our mind. Maybe it did his but he hasn't said anything. Should I offer? Would that make it seem like I had other affairs?
> 
> I have zero doubts about the paternity of the children, but its not really about MY doubts right? I don't know how to feel about this. I would rather not bring it up, but is that just me avoiding an uncomfortable topic?
> 
> If he showed any concerns about this topic I would jump to get the testing done.
> 
> I have read a forum thread (it's either here or another forum. Can't remember.) about a woman who did paternity fraud on her husband with twins and joked about it with friends. It's horrifying stuff and one thing as a woman I will never have to deal with. It can be hard to even wrap my head around how that must feel.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not saying the baby’s not your husbands baby, just that with the previous deceitful games you played, he may end up requesting one because he may not believe you and could wait to spring it on you when the baby is born. It’s not the same as you, you know the baby is yours, unfortunately men have to take the word of the mother or test for it.
> You’ve come a long way, I wish you well. I’m not trying to bring you down.
Click to expand...

I know and I wouldn't dream of pulling dramatics on him if he asks. It's just a cheek swap and it can give him peace of mind. 

Yes, I think my feelings might get a little hurt that he thought I might be in an affair at the time of conceiving, but I've been learning to deal with hurt and negative feelings without unloading on others and blaming others for "giving" me those feelings. It's a natural consequence of betrayal. The betrayed has a hard time trusting again. Funny how that works right?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

@FoolishOne ,

Maybe consider the DNA test as a confirmation of trust for him, as unnecessary as it may be.
You have a very clear view of what you have done and what he has done and is going through. It's impressive and admirable. I saw where you had posted on another thread and I think that is great. Considering your viewpoint, remorsefulness, acceptance and knowledge you kind of come from a unicorn ranch. There aren't many like that here and it is great you are willing to give that input to others. You could be a big asset if you stick around and help others.


----------



## JamesStorm

I may have missed this, but do the brother and cousin know about the husband's revenge affair? If they want to be so aggressive in persecuting you, then shouldn't they also be looking at your husband with a bit of a crooked eye as well?

If anything, your husband should be jumping in the fire for this one and demanding that they back off as he has also not been a saint in this situation........


----------



## FoolishOne

Things have been calming down with my husband's business. His friends surgeries seem to be working out and his doctors are VERY positive about recovery.

We have started talking about us and the affair/s again. Mostly mine. 

I can't truly explain it but it all feels so inadequate. What I mean is I can talk all day. I can apologize till I am blue in the face. I can seduce him every chance I get. I can cook great meals and support him however I can.

BUT... It will never be enough. I've wounded him. Deeply. I've changed him. I didn't notice it when I avoided the problem. I wasn't looking deep enough, but now I am and I see a grievously wounded soul. 

I want to do whatever I can to heal him, but I can't. I know there is no answer to this. But it's devastating to really know I ripped out a part of his soul that can never regrow.

My Husband is a more jaded man now. He has a darker outlook on life. He seems the same most times, but once in a while he let's his dark thoughts slip through words or his mood. He trusts others less. He is less open and lively. More solemn. 

His closer friends have even commented on it before. I brushed it off before, but I know its true now.

I'm not unhappy with him. He is still the man I love. 

How do I not let that consume me at times? It was easier when I lived in ignorance. 

Sometimes when I look at him I feel like a monster. I'm sorry I can't explain it better.


----------



## FoolishOne

No. My husband kept that to himself. His assistant did because he had to cover for my husband at times, but didn't know who.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

[Says he wants to do man things with a son. Raising daughters is great, but he wants to have a little buddy instead of little princess this time.]


Its good that he wants to enjoy this pregnancy and another child to raise. But in my case, my boy ended up Momma's and Nana's boy. And my little girl is a chip off the ole' block. lol

My wife and mother-in-law wanted the little girl for cheerleading, ballet and stuff like that...Nope! She enjoys hunting and fishing and working with my tools in the garage. And along with American dolls and such as well.... Just a tom girl I suppose.

But my son, while he does go deer hunting with me, he loves to stay home and play video games and hangout with friends. Ofcourse, mom spoils him with favorite foods and clothes and stuff... And here, I was thinking I was going to raise a Hiesman trophy winner. Oh well, they're good kids and love them to death . Congrats! Hopefully this can be the tie that binds and heals for you....


----------



## TDSC60

FoolishOne said:


> Things have been calming down with my husband's business. His friends surgeries seem to be working out and his doctors are VERY positive about recovery.
> 
> We have started talking about us and the affair/s again. Mostly mine.
> 
> I can't truly explain it but it all feels so inadequate. What I mean is I can talk all day. I can apologize till I am blue in the face. I can seduce him every chance I get. I can cook great meals and support him however I can.
> 
> BUT... It will never be enough. I've wounded him. Deeply. I've changed him. I didn't notice it when I avoided the problem. I wasn't looking deep enough, but now I am and I see a grievously wounded soul.
> 
> I want to do whatever I can to heal him, but I can't. I know there is no answer to this. But it's devastating to really know I ripped out a part of his soul that can never regrow.
> 
> My Husband is a more jaded man now. He has a darker outlook on life. He seems the same most times, but once in a while he let's his dark thoughts slip through words or his mood. He trusts others less. He is less open and lively. More solemn.
> 
> His closer friends have even commented on it before. I brushed it off before, but I know its true now.
> 
> I'm not unhappy with him. He is still the man I love.
> 
> How do I not let that consume me at times? It was easier when I lived in ignorance.
> 
> Sometimes when I look at him I feel like a monster. I'm sorry I can't explain it better.


An affair is the gift that keeps on giving. 

From personal experience I can tell you that never fully trusting someone again is a way to protect himself from the gut wrenching pain he went through when he confirmed via a PI that you continued the affair after DDay. He was 100% committed to you and trusted you 100% and it destroyed his masculinity and self worth when he found out that you continued to see OM. That has been his reality since then. 

He has lived in (what he thought was) an open relationship that he did not choose, for what, - the last 4 years? Trying to make it work for the kids. Since he knew you were hiding the truth from him, he thought all your actions since him finding the truth on his own was just you keeping things calm at home for the kids while continuing the affair with OM.

He has felt like your plan B for years. He probably thought you were waiting for the kids to leave the house also. You even said you did not stop the affair after DDay until the OM started acting like the ass-hat that he was. So your husband was Plan B at that time.

He was changed from a 100% giving, 100% trusting, happily married man to a somewhat skeptical, cautious individual. That is probably a permanent change. No man likes to be taken for a fool and he was.

I don't say this to dishearten or make you feel bad. Just know that it is normal male behavior. He will never be the same man he was before your affair. But if you continue to be open, honest, and loving with him, he will move closer to being that man again. He is scared. The scars will fade. But it will take time - years possibly. He will not change overnight. He will not change as quickly as you wish he would. Yes, there will be flashes of darkness and pain on occasion. But they will become fewer and farther between,

Can you allow him time to heal at his own rate?


----------



## Cynthia

The best thing you can do for your husband is to love him and act on that love. Respect him and act on that respect. Be the kind of person you truly want to be; a woman of integrity, honor, and love. 

Stop dwelling on what is lost and focus on what is found. Support your husband in his work and the rest of his life. Show him through word and deed that you are 100% his girl and 100% committed to him. Show him that you adore him and always will. Dwell on those things and you will feel much better than dwelling on the negative.


----------



## FoolishOne

CynthiaDe said:


> The best thing you can do for your husband is to love him and act on that love. Respect him and act on that respect. Be the kind of person you truly want to be; a woman of integrity, honor, and love.
> 
> Stop dwelling on what is lost and focus on what is found. Support your husband in his work and the rest of his life. Show him through word and deed that you are 100% his girl and 100% committed to him. Show him that you adore him and always will. Dwell on those things and you will feel much better than dwelling on the negative.


Thank you. That helps. TDSC60 as well thank you.


----------



## Steelman

I think the summary of this whole thread, and why some people who are so irritated and skeptical, based on what's happened to them is essentially, you two have been terrible people to each other. You've banged other people, your husband had video of anal sex with a 29 year old on his phone, you've messed around and kept doing it, its an awful marriage. Yet it looks like it somehow, after all the Jerry Springer stuff- it STILL might work out for you.

You still get regular sex, you're pregnant, no one is leaving- its crazy. There are people on here who did nothing wrong and they don't get sex, or their spouse wanted to leave. Sometimes life makes no sense.


----------



## personofinterest

Steelman said:


> I think the summary of this whole thread, and why some people who are so irritated and skeptical, based on what's happened to them is essentially, you two have been terrible people to each other. You've banged other people, your husband had video of anal sex with a 29 year old on his phone, you've messed around and kept doing it, its an awful marriage. Yet it looks like it somehow, after all the Jerry Springer stuff- it STILL might work out for you.
> 
> You still get regular sex, you're pregnant, no one is leaving- its crazy. There are people on here who did nothing wrong and they don't get sex, or their spouse wanted to leave. Sometimes life makes no sense.


And some people beat the kids they birthed, while my mom wasn't able to get pregnant. And some people work hard and never make ends meet, while other people fall into money. And some people smoke and live to 95, while others who are healthy die at 30.

It's rather infantile to get bitter by comparison.


----------



## NJ2

F1- getting back to a post you made earlier about how your h spooned you and kissed the back of your neck....hold onto that- I would suggest if you aren't doing so already that you both sleep in the nude and spoon. Make it a pointed ritual. H and I started doing that during R and we found that it brought us closer. There is evidence that the skin on skin contact releases the bonding horomone (similar to bonding with a newborn ) The hormone released is also the same hormone that is released when people are beginning an EA - it is very powerful.

We went from sleeping with a child, dog, or pillow between us for 30 years to always sleeping nude and spooning at least for the first half hour as we are falling asleep. It seemed to be more important for H to help him feel safe and secure- it reaffirmed the feeling that I was "his" again I think.

After 4 years of this we still from time to time kiss each others back. Like you- that is for me the very best expression of love.
I really think you will make it. It just takes time, effort, and there will be bumps along the road. He will trigger but it doesn't mean he will leave. It means you use that opportunity to reassure him that you love him and only him and that you intend to grow old together.


----------



## FoolishOne

NJ2 said:


> F1- getting back to a post you made earlier about how your h spooned you and kissed the back of your neck....hold onto that- I would suggest if you aren't doing so already that you both sleep in the nude and spoon. Make it a pointed ritual. H and I started doing that during R and we found that it brought us closer. There is evidence that the skin on skin contact releases the bonding horomone (similar to bonding with a newborn ) The hormone released is also the same hormone that is released when people are beginning an EA - it is very powerful.
> 
> We went from sleeping with a child, dog, or pillow between us for 30 years to always sleeping nude and spooning at least for the first half hour as we are falling asleep. It seemed to be more important for H to help him feel safe and secure- it reaffirmed the feeling that I was "his" again I think.
> 
> After 4 years of this we still from time to time kiss each others back. Like you- that is for me the very best expression of love.
> I really think you will make it. It just takes time, effort, and there will be bumps along the road. He will trigger but it doesn't mean he will leave. It means you use that opportunity to reassure him that you love him and only him and that you intend to grow old together.


That's an amazing suggestion. I'm just going to start sleeping nude. I usually just wear one of the couple of his t-shirts I have commandeered and nothing else, but that sounds incredible. Losing that last layer of defense may help.

I'll do just about anything to bring us closer.

We are out of town until Saturday night. sleeping nude in a hotel isn't exactly up my alley. I don't know why. It just doesn't feel right being nude asleep away from home. It will have to wait till we are back to the comfort of our home.

He had to go handle a businesses thing with his brother and I wanted to come along. My youngest can look after herself for a few days so I thought it would be nice to come along with him. 

We are in Boston. Any romantic scenery or activity suggestions? We leave in 2 days. I'm thinking about talking him into one more day for a full weekend alone in one of America's oldest cities. He is busy today and tomorrow for the most part but Saturday he only has one thing in the morning.


----------



## FoolishOne

Oops double post. Clicked quote instead of edit.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Foolish if you are in the heart of boston there is nothing better than to walk through the Boston commons, and Faneuil hall and try the various foods...all of this is walking distance...there is haymarket square where you can get the freshest fruits....walk over to the north end and eat at the Catch of the day...it a very small resturant and you may have to wait but so worth it. 

get at drink off the wharf.


----------



## FoolishOne

Lostinthought61 said:


> Foolish if you are in the heart of boston there is nothing better than to walk through the Boston commons, and Faneuil hall and try the various foods...all of this is walking distance...there is haymarket square where you can get the freshest fruits....walk over to the north end and eat at the Catch of the day...it a very small resturant and you may have to wait but so worth it.
> 
> get at drink off the wharf.


I look into that. Thank you. They all sound like good suggestions.


----------



## sokillme

Steelman said:


> I think the summary of this whole thread, and why some people who are so irritated and skeptical, based on what's happened to them is essentially, you two have been terrible people to each other. You've banged other people, your husband had video of anal sex with a 29 year old on his phone, you've messed around and kept doing it, its an awful marriage. Yet it looks like it somehow, after all the Jerry Springer stuff- it STILL might work out for you.
> 
> You still get regular sex, you're pregnant, no one is leaving- its crazy. There are people on here who did nothing wrong and they don't get sex, or their spouse wanted to leave. Sometimes life makes no sense.


Remember a lot of times you get the life you accept to. You can't be passive in your own life.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> That's an amazing suggestion. I'm just going to start sleeping nude. I usually just wear one of the couple of his t-shirts I have commandeered and nothing else, but that sounds incredible. Losing that last layer of defense may help.
> 
> I'll do just about anything to bring us closer.
> 
> We are out of town until Saturday night. sleeping nude in a hotel isn't exactly up my alley. I don't know why. It just doesn't feel right being nude asleep away from home. It will have to wait till we are back to the comfort of our home.
> 
> He had to go handle a businesses thing with his brother and I wanted to come along. My youngest can look after herself for a few days so I thought it would be nice to come along with him.
> 
> We are in Boston. Any romantic scenery or activity suggestions? We leave in 2 days. I'm thinking about talking him into one more day for a full weekend alone in one of America's oldest cities. He is busy today and tomorrow for the most part but Saturday he only has one thing in the morning.


I say get out of your comfort zone and do it anyway. I will shake things up and probably turn him on.


----------



## sokillme

One thing I was thinking about when I think about this stuff. I think what is hardest for the WS to understand is even when things seem to be improving even that still can be painful for the BS. I think the reason is because the BS still has this great loss that they are morning. The loss is belief. I was reading a very uplifting positive energy post from a WS talking about all the things she was doing and it struck me that even with all her work I am sure her husband looks at her at times and thinks, "but I believed in you", then morns that he can no longer do that the way he once did. WS never seem to get this, I think because nothing was stolen from them, so they still get to keep those beliefs. 

Even I all those years ago, I remember thinking, the same thing, "I believed in you, in us". It's a very great gift to believe in someone, it a gift for both of you. I think we all know life is hard, but when you have someone that you can put your faith into, and something (the relationship) it makes life much easier. It's like lightening the load in a small way. 

So when you are cheated on that is part of the loss. I don't know if the WS can understand THAT. I think THAT is the thing that is spoken about when they say the WS can never understand. And that is because the WS still has that with the BS, and even in the marriage to a certain extent. The BS is still worth that belief. I also think they really don't appreciate that, that is what someone does when they love you. I think it takes years if ever to really understand that loss. 

F1 that should be your mission, to get him to believe in you again. I don't even know if that is possible but if you want him that is what you are trying to do.


----------



## Kamstel

Did you go for a walk on the Common in the snow last night? Newbury Street?


----------



## personofinterest

sokillme said:


> One thing I was thinking about when I think about this stuff. I think what is hardest for the WS to understand is even when things seem to be improving even that still can be painful for the BS. I think the reason is because the BS still has this great loss that they are morning. The loss is belief. I was reading a very uplifting positive energy post from a WS talking about all the things she was doing and it struck me that even with all her work I am sure her husband looks at her at times and thinks, "but I believed in you", then morns that he can no longer do that the way he once did. WS never seem to get this, I think because nothing was stolen from them, so they still get to keep those beliefs.
> 
> Even I all those years ago, I remember thinking, the same thing, "I believed in you, in us". It's a very great gift to believe in someone, it a gift for both of you. I think we all know life is hard, but when you have someone that you can put your faith into, and something (the relationship) it makes life much easier. It's like lightening the load in a small way.
> 
> So when you are cheated on that is part of the loss. I don't know if the WS can understand THAT. I think THAT is the thing that is spoken about when they say the WS can never understand. And that is because the WS still has that with the BS, and even in the marriage to a certain extent. The BS is still worth that belief. I also think they really don't appreciate that, that is what someone does when they love you. I think it takes years if ever to really understand that loss.
> 
> F1 that should be your mission, to get him to believe in you again. I don't even know if that is possible but if you want him that is what you are trying to do.


I think it is predictably presumptuous to assume that a WS doesn't know this. Of course the BS is going to still hurt. Of course they will look at the WS even years later and think, "How could you?"

It is what the BS chooses to DO with those thoughts that really counts.

As unfair as it might seem to a particular type of person, there really ARE couples who come out the other side of infidelity truly loving each other and having a strong marriage.


----------



## FoolishOne

Kamstel said:


> Did you go for a walk on the Common in the snow last night? Newbury Street?


No he came back pretty late. We watched a movie together in the hotel room and crashed. Why? Did you think you spotted us? Lol.


Also 

He was surprised when I slept nude BTW. In a good way. 🙂 Even as tired as he was it led to more. Some giggles and some tickles and some fun. The gesture and the reason behind it made him happy. He wanted me to step outside my comfort zone for him. It was definitely worth it. Thank you for the suggestion.


----------



## SunCMars

BluesPower said:


> I will bet that you are saying some really great stuff...
> 
> I just wish I could understand it...


This is one instance whereby straight talk is avoided to avoid breaking Forum rules of appearing in proper dress. 
Actually, avoiding proper addressing.

A spade may be a spade, it is against the rules to call them as such without proof.
Fair enough.

Not foul enough to be called out on any spade called forth.

Clear enough?

Yes or no?


----------



## SunCMars

FoolishOne said:


> No he came back pretty late. We watched a movie together in the hotel room and crashed. Why? Did you think you spotted us? Lol.
> 
> 
> Also
> 
> He was surprised when I slept nude BTW. In a good way. 🙂 Even as tired as he was it led to more. Some giggles and some tickles and some fun. The gesture and the reason behind it made him happy. He wanted me to step outside my comfort zone for him. It was definitely worth it. Thank you for the suggestion.


I may 'snatch' your Avatar name and reuse it in some future Tale.

A curvy, nervy lady who sleeps nude with a BS of a man is absolute torture for he who has loosed or seeks to loose the modified 180.

The 180 withers as the '6' inch man battles what is before him.

Such hot injustice.

Aye, it hurts.

The pain soon to be overshadowed by lust.



The Typist I-


----------



## FoolishOne

SunCMars said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> No he came back pretty late. We watched a movie together in the hotel room and crashed. Why? Did you think you spotted us? Lol.
> 
> 
> Also
> 
> He was surprised when I slept nude BTW. In a good way. 🙂 Even as tired as he was it led to more. Some giggles and some tickles and some fun. The gesture and the reason behind it made him happy. He wanted me to step outside my comfort zone for him. It was definitely worth it. Thank you for the suggestion.
> 
> 
> 
> I may 'snatch' your Avatar name and reuse it in some future Tale.
> 
> A curvy, nervy lady who sleeps nude with a BS of a man is absolute torture for he who has loosed or seeks to loose the modified 180.
> 
> The 180 withers as the '6' inch man battles what is before him.
> 
> Such hot injustice.
> 
> Aye, it hurts.
> 
> The pain soon to be overshadowed by lust.
> 
> 
> 
> The Typist I-
Click to expand...

You're an ..... interesting person.

Also if you're interested in accuracy to source material add an inch and a bit. 😉

Jesus now you got me going down this wierd road..... please keep any erotica you DO end up writing about my husband and me to yourself. If I see it out and about for sale.... I'll be too embarrassed 
to go anywhere.


----------



## SunCMars

FoolishOne said:


> You're an ..... interesting person.
> 
> Also if you're interested in accuracy to source material add an inch and a bit. 😉
> 
> Jesus now you got me going down this wierd road..... please keep any erotica you DO end up writing about my husband and me to yourself. If I see it out and about for sale.... I'll be too *embarrassed *to go anywhere.


OK....

I know embarrassed, do not ask me to rearrange that word.

I have always faithfully unraveled that word, stripped it down to bare essentials.


----------



## FoolishOne

SunCMars said:


> FoolishOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're an ..... interesting person.
> 
> Also if you're interested in accuracy to source material add an inch and a bit. 😉
> 
> Jesus now you got me going down this wierd road..... please keep any erotica you DO end up writing about my husband and me to yourself. If I see it out and about for sale.... I'll be too *embarrassed *to go anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> OK....
> 
> I know embarrassed, do not ask me to rearrange that word.
> 
> I have always faithfully unraveled that word, stripped it down to bare essentials.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're talking about. 🙂


----------



## Rubix Cubed

personofinterest said:


> I think it is predictably presumptuous to assume that a WS doesn't know this. Of course the BS is going to still hurt. Of course they will look at the WS even years later and think, "How could you?"
> 
> *It is what the BS chooses to DO with those thoughts that really counts.*


re underlined: How could the WS know unless they had been cheated on themselves? They might THINK they understand the depth of the pain but unless they have experienced it firsthand it is impossible to know the extent of it.


re Bolded: That sounds an awful lot like victim shaming with a side of rugsweeping.


----------



## personofinterest

Rubix Cubed said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is predictably presumptuous to assume that a WS doesn't know this. Of course the BS is going to still hurt. Of course they will look at the WS even years later and think, "How could you?"
> 
> *It is what the BS chooses to DO with those thoughts that really counts.*
> 
> 
> 
> re underlined: How could the WS know unless they had been cheated on themselves? They might THINK they understand the depth of the pain but unless they have experienced it firsthand it is impossible to know the extent of it.
> 
> 
> re Bolded: That sounds an awful lot like victim shaming with a side of rugsweeping.
Click to expand...

You're choosing to see it that way because of your baggage.

People arent ifiots, even WS.

Obviously recovery takes a LONG time and the pain lingers.

Do me a favor; put me on ignore.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

personofinterest said:


> You're choosing to see it that way because of your baggage.
> 
> People arent ifiots, even WS.
> 
> Obviously recovery takes a LONG time and the pain lingers.
> 
> Do me a favor; put me on ignore.


 Speaking of presumptuous. You know nothing of my "baggage", as you say, therefore there is no way you could judge what I post by that criteria. Common sense dictates you can't understand something you haven't experienced in relation to someone who has. You may THINK you can, but you'd be wrong. Tell me what it feels like to get your ball sack stuck in your zipper. Your point of reference makes that impossible. Just like a WS can never understand the pain they inflict on a BS if they themselves have never been cheated on.

Why would I want to put you on ignore? I enjoy your posts, even the ones I don't agree with because I attempt to not put myself in a bubble with a bunch of yes men. The ignore function works both ways if you feel the need, Knock yourself out. Kinda like taking your ball and going home because someone disagrees with you though. Doesn't give your ideas much credibility if that's the answer.


----------



## FoolishOne

I am in agreement. Sorry Personofinterest. Not that I don't understand what you mean as well. It not like a truly remorseful spouse wouldn't understand that thier spouse is in pain.

I mean.... I know my husband hurts. I know he lacks trust in me. I know a good deal of what he is feeling, BUT do I actually know HOW EXACTLY that feels, and what it will take for HIM to overcome that?

Like watching someone break an arm. Others can explain to me how that feels. I can assume it hurts like hell. Maybe it throbs. Maybe it feels like knives or grinding. BUT without ever breaking my arm can I truly ever claim to know how it feels? My understanding isn't first person perspective. 

I could claim to be able to break my arm and not cry. I could claim I could deal with it. I could claim many things. I could even tell that person that pain is just the body's signal of damage at that part of the body and if they will it, they can ignore it. But unless I have ever had a similar injury it is all empty words. My understanding is surface level. Not true understanding. 

I mean have you ever heard a man talk about what it feels like to give birth? I have once or twice. Not that they claimed to have given birth, but like they understood. I always roll my eyes. THEY UNDERSTAND NOTHING!!!

I know he suffers. I know he needs time. I know it will also require my actions and words and steadfast love to help him through this. But I will never judge him for any screams of pain or guarding of his wounds. I won't call him weak. Or stubborn.

Those of you that say I can understand because I am a mad hatter.... Maybe a little. Only portions of it. Jealousy, yes. Betrayal... no. He didn't betray me as I see it.

If tomorrow he goes and cheats. Then yes. I will consider it betrayal. I have laid everything on the table. So has he. If he actually didn't and went on to have an affair I could claim being betrayed.

I don't know maybe I'm not portraying my feeling on this well enough.

Someone wrote in a post that if somebody walks up reaches out to shake your hand and then sucker punches you, and you punch them back. The one who punched first will ALWAYS be more guilty. I agree with that. 

Getting punched still hurts, but you know why it came. You started it. It shouldn't really surprise you that much.

He has accepted my apology. That doesn't mean I expect him to allow me to stand within arms reach of him without a second thought.

He is cautious. He is keeping an eye on me. Waiting. Seeing if I wind up for another sucker punch. I hope in time he truly believes I won't do it again. I hope in time the pain of my sucker punch becomes a distant memory. But that's not up to me.

Am I getting It? I don't know. What I do know is if I smiled at someone and they smiled at me, and then they punched my lights out , from out of nowhere... I probably wouldn't stand anywhere close to them again. Even if I did forgive them. It's a lot to ask a person.

Some people can do that. Some would call that person a saint. Some would call them a fool. 

Maybe I'm just rambling. I've had a few drinks. My husband and me went out to celebrate a business deal he closed that will probably propel his business even higher. He is passed out. He was very happy. Fastest I've ever seen him get drunk. He usually avoided drinking so it was fun to see him let loose.


----------



## FoolishOne

Also those who think this is all roses and butterflies would be wrong. We go through times of unimaginable closeness and joy and at other times a cloud seems to cover us. He is doing fantastic at dispelling these clouds when they come, but we are not happily ever after just yet. I'm focusing on the good when it's here. And it's helping me immensely. But I am also keeping my feet on earth and being realistic. This isn't over.

I do have to say my husband is a great man. I never knew his heart could be this big. I never knew anyone could have a heart that big. I wish I didn't have to wound it to see that, but I was a fool.


----------



## Violet28

That is great that things are going better. I do want to say please don't drink while you're pregnant. I work with kids FASD and the effects can be debilitating and lifelong.


----------



## Rob_1

I think that it is all about degree of semantics : at a level a cheater "knows" that pain have been inflicted ( with some pathological exceptions).

The question is to what degree? Of course it will never be to the cheated person degree, but it is also on a one on one basis because we all are different.

In some extreme cases the cheaters had gone to the extreme of killing themselves, after realizing what they have done and the pain that they have inflicted.


----------



## FoolishOne

Violet28 said:


> That is great that things are going better. I do want to say please don't drink while you're pregnant. I work with kids FASD and the effects can be debilitating and lifelong.


Yeah pretty stupid of me. We where both crazy happy. 2 glasses of wine. I made excuses. His happiness was contangous. But yeah. Ridiculously stupid. Your comment actually just made it sink in just how stupid it was. I wasn't thinking about my baby at all tonight. It was a pretty insanely joyous night for my husband and his brother. I got caught up in it.

Even though there are a few studies that say a few glasses of wine a week does no damage why take the risk?


----------



## Decorum

Hi FoolishOne,

I just wanted to check in and see how it is going.

Pain is a teacher. You are learning something, and so is he.

The simple lesson for him is to avoid the pain, and unfortunately that means you, but listen, he is choosing to work through this with you. That is a great gift and a wonderful act of love.

So yes it will not be easy for either of you.

The good news is that he must believe you are worth it, and that should give you some reassurance, and foster a grateful spirit.

I am glad for both of you and hope it works out.

It will take his brain a while to process this, just be consistent in your support and don't lose heart.

He will revisit the pain again and again as he builds up a callous on it. Your support can be part of the memories that strengthen him.

Your motives and intentions may be questioned here, use it like a mirror to examine yourself and grow.

You get to see up close the inner workings of how infidelity destroys a person.

If you have a soul, and a heart (and I think you do), you will never be the same either.

Be kind to each other. I wish you both well.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

@FoolishOne 
I just wanted to say again that your clarity is commendable and refreshing. I'd like to think that if your husband has anywhere near the clarity and will you have that Y'all will be OK. I hope so. I'm rootin' for both you.

As an aside, I wouldn't sweat 2 glasses of wine as a one off. It's good that you recognize it.
I actually had a friend who's now ex wife was Bi-Polar and intentionally drank to excess while pregnant to screw with him. Their boy was born with fetal alcohol syndrome. REALLY *sick* woman. She also would try to cheat on him when she was manic. There is no circle of Hell good enough for her IMO.


----------



## personofinterest

Foolish, I get that no one can know exactly how something feels unless they have experienced it.

That was NOT what the original post I quoted was about. I never said a WS could understand the exact feelings.

What I said was that any WS with a brain knows the process is long lasting, the pain doesn't just disappear, and happy times dont mean the BS isnt hurting. Obviously any WS with the capacity for empathy knows those things.

When I had cancer, I didn't dismiss the thoughts of anyone who had never had cancer because I'm not stupid and I don't have a cancer chip on my shoulder.

Whether we like it or not, true recovery does involve both spouses.

And I'm sure you arent for getting what you did or your husband's pain, even if we DON'T make sure we remind you every other post.


----------



## sokillme

@FoolishOne how are you doing?


----------



## FoolishOne

Things are .... moving along. Slowly. Much of what I expected. 

His AP showed up at the offices last week. He called me immediately. He didn't speak to her. I believe him. She made a bit of a scene but he told her he would call the cops if she didn't leave company property. She tried speaking to him in the parking lot after , but he just got in his car and drove away.

W sent the obs the info about that, but he texted me back he doesn't give a **** because he is divorcing her. Thanked me for looking out for him, but told me I didn't need to anymore. They are done for good it seems.

I didn't feel the need to come here and ask what i should do. We both expected she might do that. He handled it well. I have zero worries about that.

I have been reading and keeping my head to working on me and my relationship with my husband. I don't want to get complacent.

He is still having trouble with aspects of it all. He asked me why I came clean... well he asked specifically if it was because I found him in an affair. I could only answer yes. He sort of knew that was the trigger before, but he is truly wrapping his head around it now.

He thinks it was self interest driven and I have nothing to say but yes. He doesn't like that it wasn't for his sake. I like to think it was at least partly because I thought he deserved the truth, but ... I have to admit it was selfish. I didn't want to lose him. I was suspicious he knew more about my affair and confronting him with anger and hypocrisy would have maybe sealed the coffin on our marriage. He wonders if I truly know what love is. I have come to the conclusion I can only show him and told him that as well. 

We are working through a lot of things like that. We have set aside time each week to have these talks more in depth. He still hasn't gone to IC, and based on what I've seen posted here and on other forums forcing him and making an issue out of it would be a mistake. He may not need IC. It's up to him. Marriage counseling is on the table, but he isn't excited about it. He expects he won't like it.

The baby bump is growing slowly and healthily. I really do like the idea of a boy. We have started working on the baby room already. Painting clouds is harder than I thought. It's fun though. Crib is already here. He went all out. Custom ordered one. It's BEAUTIFUL. It has peoms and other things carved into it. About life and growing up. About the bonds of family. He surprised me with it. I have never seen such a beautiful crib before.

Thanksgiving was great. DD1 and DD2 seemed happy. DD1 is still distant at times, but Rome wasn't built in a day. We talk a few times every week or so. It's still awkward for her I can tell. My husband spoke with his brother and cousin. No more dagger glares or snide comments. Not that they are ever going to be fans of mine.

Mostly we are just working it. The process. Our lives. We have a path before us, but we are not 100 percent sure where it leads. We have to slowly crawl up the path cutting away the brush in our way. Neither of us are giving up on our marriage.

I'm sorry for not posting, but I do check the board pretty regularly. I read other threads here and on other forums. It helps me understand his feeling better.

My questions to ask here are sort of running dry. We work them together before I even have a chance to come here. Communication is working well. We keep it going constantly. No topic is out of bounds. I sort of feel like a baby bird jumping from the nest. I have to fly and be able to work out solutions on my own and with my husband without all of you at one point or another. Right? It feels like the results are better when I work a problem with my husband right from the beginning. The answers we find together seem to be most helpful for both of us. The process of working it out WITH him also reassures him and helps him get that I understand his feelings.

You guys have been so supportive and helpful. Truly. Thank you. I would still be cowering and holding the truth from him like a baby clinging to a safety blanket if it were not for all of you. You also armed me with the state of mind I would need going into this. Thank you all.

I'll post any major changes if they happen. Take care of yourselves. Happy holidays.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Nice update. Hang in there OP. Happy Holidays to you too!


----------



## Cynthia

God bless you, @FoolishOne. I am so happy that things are continuing to move forward. It took a lot of courage for you to come clean and to keep speaking the truth still takes courage, but that is exactly how your marriage is being healed little by little I admire your patient attitude in this process and your willingness to humble yourself for the greater good of your husband and your family. 

Yes, you came clean due to selfish reasons, but you have not remained selfish in your approach. This is seem through your humble and patient attitude in all of this. Keep up the good work.

As time goes by and you have some wisdom under your belt, I hope you will come back from time to time and participate in threads to help others in shoes similar to yours.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.


----------



## BluesPower

CynthiaDe said:


> God bless you, @FoolishOne. I am so happy that things are continuing to move forward. It took a lot of courage for you to come clean and to keep speaking the truth still takes courage, but that is exactly how your marriage is being healed little by little I admire your patient attitude in this process and your willingness to humble yourself for the greater good of your husband and your family.
> 
> Yes, you came clean due to selfish reasons, but you have not remained selfish in your approach. This is seem through your humble and patient attitude in all of this. Keep up the good work.
> 
> As time goes by and you have some wisdom under your belt, I hope you will come back from time to time and participate in threads to help others in shoes similar to yours.
> 
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.


I was not really going to post on this point, but I do think it is important. 

Great post BTW, @CynthiaDe. 

I won't say that @FoolishOne was not trying to save her marriage, and she knew that she had to come clean in order to have that chance. 

However, We all told her that she had to come clean, for him. He probably already knew, because he was not stupid, but in order to have a chance to save the marriage, she had to come clean and confess. 

Now, she may think she was being selfish, and maybe in one way she was, but not completely. 

The other side is she knew she had to do it for him. Yeah, she suspected that he knew, but it still took a huge amount of courage for her to confess everything. 

He could have just as easily said, wow, thanks, you will have your divorce papers on Monday. 

So I think she should take that point to him so he can better understand that she did not confess for completely selfish reason. 

She did it because it was the right thing to do. She did it because HE had to know the truth for him to decide what he wanted to do. And, she did it to try and save her marriage. 

Not completely selfish in my opinion...


----------



## FoolishOne

I do actually have a question now that I think of it.

I've been thinking about a gift for my husband. I want to go big. But I'm not sure exactly how that will come across.

My husband has always been a muscle car fan. Not to the point of being obsessed. If he wanted he could buy a whole bunch of them. He has 1. A hemi cuda. It is in pristine condition. That is basicly the only thing he has ever treated himself with that was pretty darm expensive and for pure enjoyment alone. The cuda is apparently worth a lot. He loves that car. There was only like a few thousand or something made of them... I don't know exactly. Just repeating from memories of him talking about it.

He doesn't wear Rolex watches. Or Armani suits. He could. He could flash his money extravagantly, but he doesn't (Not that he doesn't have nice things). He just doesn't like being flashy and he has good self control. He didnt have much growing up and has a bit of distaste for rich people who are overly flashy about it. Its one of the many things I respect about him.

I have been paying attention to him and have noticed he has taken a fancy to a new muscle car. I don't think he will buy it for himself , but him, his brother and cousin have drooled over it a few times. I feel like he wants it, but is holding back almost on reflex.

It's not a classic. (I think I'm using that word right.) It's a new car. Well a 2018. They are not making a 2019 version apparently. 

Its a dodge challenger demon. I want to get it for him. With my own money. Not money given to me. Not a joint account (that would ruin the surprise anyways). It would be my money. Mostly my money at least. My personal account has more than enough to cover the cost, but a sizable chunk of that is money my husband deposited before my affair.

If I factor in money that only I have saved through my own effort over the last 3 years it will cover almost all of it. My cost of living is pretty low seeing as my husband covers pretty much all large costs and I havn't taken to spending much of the money I have made. I have a pretty good job, though it's a job my husband secured for me through personal connections. So I can't be too proud of myself. I don't make a fraction of what my husband makes, but that's neither here nor there.

I could do it. I think he would love it. Is it wierd? How would that come across. I'm not entirely sure. Would it seem like a desperate bid to win him over? A manipulation? I just really want to do something nice for the man who has paved my way in life for nearly 2 decades. 

To my husband the cost of the car isn't really a wow factor. But he would know it is a stretch for me and would be a somewhat sizable chunk of the funds available to me. I want to show him what he means to me and show him I can sacrifice for him.

I usually get him a suit or a watch. Nothing like this. I have already found the one. It's just about pulling the trigger at this point. 

So. What are your thoughts? Too much? What could go wrong? Am I over thinking this? Is it too early for something like this?

He barely drives the hemi as it is a collector. It is his baby. This is something he could go joy ride. Sometimes I picture the both of us sitting in it and acting like stupid teenagers. Reving it and whatnot. 

But I am hesitant. The only people who know my husband deeply enough and would have an opinion that would help me are his cousin and brother and I don't think it's a good idea to ask them.


----------



## OnTheFly

I wouldn't. My hobbies and interests are mine. His are his. Let him spend money on those things himself. My wife at times has shown interest in buying stuff for me that is related to my interests. As nicely as I could I told her not to.

Just my two pence.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> I do actually have a question now that I think of it.
> 
> I've been thinking about a gift for my husband. I want to go big. But I'm not sure exactly how that will come across.
> 
> My husband has always been a muscle car fan. Not to the point of being obsessed. If he wanted he could buy a whole bunch of them. He has 1. A hemi cuda. It is in pristine condition. That is basicly the only thing he has ever treated himself with that was pretty darm expensive and for pure enjoyment alone. The cuda is apparently worth a lot. He loves that car. There was only like a few thousand or something made of them... I don't know exactly. Just repeating from memories of him talking about it.
> 
> He doesn't wear Rolex watches. Or Armani suits. He could. He could flash his money extravagantly, but he doesn't (Not that he doesn't have nice things). He just doesn't like being flashy and he has good self control. He didnt have much growing up and has a bit of distaste for rich people who are overly flashy about it. Its one of the many things I respect about him.
> 
> I have been paying attention to him and have noticed he has taken a fancy to a new muscle car. I don't think he will buy it for himself , but him, his brother and cousin have drooled over it a few times. I feel like he wants it, but is holding back almost on reflex.
> 
> It's not a classic. (I think I'm using that word right.) It's a new car. Well a 2018. They are not making a 2019 version apparently.
> 
> Its a dodge challenger demon. I want to get it for him. With my own money. Not money given to me. Not a joint account (that would ruin the surprise anyways). It would be my money. Mostly my money at least. My personal account has more than enough to cover the cost, but a sizable chunk of that is money my husband deposited before my affair.
> 
> If I factor in money that only I have saved through my own effort over the last 3 years it will cover almost all of it. My cost of living is pretty low seeing as my husband covers pretty much all large costs and I havn't taken to spending much of the money I have made. I have a pretty good job, though it's a job my husband secured for me through personal connections. So I can't be too proud of myself. I don't make a fraction of what my husband makes, but that's neither here nor there.
> 
> I could do it. I think he would love it. Is it wierd? How would that come across. I'm not entirely sure. Would it seem like a desperate bid to win him over? A manipulation? I just really want to do something nice for the man who has paved my way in life for nearly 2 decades.
> 
> To my husband the cost of the car isn't really a wow factor. But he would know it is a stretch for me and would be a somewhat sizable chunk of the funds available to me. I want to show him what he means to me and show him I can sacrifice for him.
> 
> I usually get him a suit or a watch. Nothing like this. I have already found the one. It's just about pulling the trigger at this point.
> 
> So. What are your thoughts? Too much? What could go wrong? Am I over thinking this? Is it too early for something like this?
> 
> He barely drives the hemi as it is a collector. It is his baby. This is something he could go joy ride. Sometimes I picture the both of us sitting in it and acting like stupid teenagers. Reving it and whatnot.
> 
> But I am hesitant. The only people who know my husband deeply enough and would have an opinion that would help me are his cousin and brother and I don't think it's a good idea to ask them.


So I have a Challenger, it's not a Demon. That is a hell of a car. But it's also quite the gift, it may be too much of a gift though. 

One thing I would say is if you want him to joy ride in the car that is not the car to get. First off they only made 3300 of them, so it may not even be available anymore. Besides that since there are only 3300 of them and they are really built for drag racing the question is is he going to race it? If not I doubt he is going to want to tool around town in it like you think. It's too rare. At least it would be for me. With this car if you are going to buy it then you need to get it as it was intended, which means you get it without the back and passenger seats. You get the street legal but very unpractical drag racing tires. All those things means it's not the car to drive around town. It's the kind of car you tow to a drag racing track and challenge Bugattis and Lamborghinis with. At least in my mind. If he is anything like me, I would feel like that car would be wasted on me as it should go to someone who is going to race it. Now maybe your husband would, but it doesn't sound like it. 

If you really want to get him a car that he would occasionally tool around it I say get him a Challenger Hellcat or if you really want to spend money the wide-body hellcat. Both beautiful and very fast cars. Hell if he likes fast cars get him a Tesla. The Model S P100D with Ludicrous mode goes 0-60 in 2.28 seconds. Plus it drives itself (not a figure of speech, you can take you hands of the wheel and it will drive itself) it's a sedan with a practical backseat. There is really nothing like that car. 

Anyway I get the sentiment really I do but are you sure this is not a little over the top? You want to heal him, you want him to know how appreciative and thankful you are for him and mostly how sorry you are. I am not sure if big gifts would do it for me. You know what would do it. Maybe consistent letter writing for one. My wife being very open and vulnerable with me in every way, so that I know that she is really invested even more then before. And this consistently for years.

The truth one of the big tests is going to be when these feelings you are feeling are not as strong, and you have some down times. That is when the truth of all of this will be shown. 

Anyway that is my two cents.


----------



## FoolishOne

[/quote]

So I have a Challenger, it's not a Demon. That is a hell of a car. But it's also quite the gift, it may be too much of a gift though. 

One thing I would say is if you want him to joy ride in the car that is not the car to get. First off they only made 3300 of them, so it may not even be available anymore. Besides that since there are only 3300 of them and they are really built for drag racing the question is is he going to race it? If not I doubt he is going to want to tool around town in it like you think. It's too rare. At least it would be for me. With this car if you are going to buy it then you need to get it as it was intended, which means you get it without the back and passenger seats. You get the street legal but very unpractical drag racing tires. All those things means it's not the car to drive around town. It's the kind of car you tow to a drag racing track and challenge Bugattis and Lamborghinis with. At least in my mind. If he is anything like me, I would feel like that car would be wasted on me as it should go to someone who is going to race it. Now maybe your husband would, but it doesn't sound like it. 

If you really want to get him a car that he would occasionally tool around it I say get him a Challenger Hellcat or if you really want to spend money the wide-body hellcat. Both beautiful and very fast cars. Hell if he likes fast cars get him a Tesla. The Model S P100D with Ludicrous mode goes 0-60 in 2.28 seconds. Plus it drives itself (not a figure of speech, you can take you hands of the wheel and it will drive itself) it's a sedan with a practical backseat. There is really nothing like that car. 

Anyway I get the sentiment really I do but are you sure this is not a little over the top? You want to heal him, you want him to know how appreciative and thankful you are for him and mostly how sorry you are. I am not sure if big gifts would do it for me. You know what would do it. Maybe consistent letter writing for one. My wife being very open and vulnerable with me in every way, so that I know that she is really invested even more then before. And this consistently for years.

The truth one of the big tests is going to be when these feelings you are feeling are not as strong, and you have some down times. That is when the truth of all of this will be shown. 

Anyway that is my two cents.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. For multiple reasons. 

My ignorance of cars is showing through. I didn't really know it wouldn't be something you could joy ride. That would have been weird. And yah, I had to track down someone who is reselling the one they bought. The hellcat is an idea, but I'm not sure he is even interested in it. It wasn't about the price as much as it was about me being pretty sure he loves the idea of that car. If it was about money i could just write him a check. The price just made it a tricky gift to get in multiple way. The last thing I want is to give the wrong impression or make him feel bad.

I still do the writing letters type stuff. I actually am doing an "open when" letters gift. It's a bunch of letter with open when You are mad, sad , lonely, miss me type stuff written on them. He would open a few a week based on how he is feeling. It's taking a lot of thought to make them as personal and as meaningful as possible. I have a beautiful box with the contents of a letter I wrote him years ago etched on to the inside to store them. I am doing a photo album as well as some goofy gifts too.

This would have been extra. But I see your point and the poster above you. I feel it would have been foolish to do this. The back of my head kept screaming not to, but I wasn't sure. I would have bought it already if I was sure.

The biggest thing was what my husband would think. I didn't really mean this to fix anything between us, but it could have definantly looked that way. This isn't any easy method of finding forgiveness. I know. Just a gift. But yah... too much. My girlfriends also told me that. 

I'm sort of stumped for gift ideas and he kept talking about that demon from time to time with his cousin. My husband is a hard man to get gifts for. 

To add to that, he treats others better than himself. Me and our 1st daughter drive more expensive cars than he does. He is getting a pretty fabulous car for second daughter for christmas this year and I kinda thought it would be funny to hand him an extra set of keys right after he reveals her car.

I feel kinda inept right now. You saved me from being a fool.... again. I just feel like cuff links a suit or watch like I usually get would have been lazy and uninspired. I usually do some sentimental more meaningful gifts AND one bigger ticket item. NOTHING as big ticket as a demon, but something. 

I still have time before Christmas. The meaningful gifts are well underway. The bigger ticket item has me stumped. I want it to be something he wants and that he will use. But he isnt exactly someone who pinnes away for material things.

I had a thought about a hunting rifle with a funny little inscription about being from his wife and also "for" his wife on it. But it seemed silly. I do know it is a gun he would like. His friend recommended it.

Oh by the way, That car actually drives itself!? That's neat.


----------



## Violet28

Does he like motorcycles? Football? Get him superbowl tickets. Other sports? What are his hobbies? You could plan a pre-baby vacation for the two of you. Does he have a mancave? Neon beer lights are always a hit. You two have an adventurous sex life, right? I got a boyfriend this light one year and he loved it. http://www.earthporm.com/butt-lamp/


----------



## Marc878

Memories mean more than things.

Plan out some activities you know he likes.

Maybe over the course of two weeks before Christmas.

Use your imagination


----------



## FoolishOne

Violet28 said:


> Does he like motorcycles? Football? Get him superbowl tickets. Other sports? What are his hobbies? You could plan a pre-baby vacation for the two of you. Does he have a mancave? Neon beer lights are always a hit. You two have an adventurous sex life, right? I got a boyfriend this light one year and he loved it. http://www.earthporm.com/butt-lamp/


Good suggestions. Those butt lamps had me giggling. 

I was actually thinking about golf lessons with a golf professional. He is into football as well so super bowl tickets would be nice.

Thank you.


----------



## Violet28

I love the butt lamps 'get turned on when you slap them'.


----------



## Joe75

Hi FoolishOne

Buying a significantly expensive gift, such as a car, could be taken the wrong way by your husband, this soon after starting to reconcile.

What my cousin did for her husband for his birthday, who is a mustang nut … er … enthusiast, was to pay for a day package at a local professional race track which included:

a. a current year mustang modified for racing;
b. laps with a race car driver who drove the vehicle; 
c. lessons how to drive/race this car; and 
d. the pièce de résistance which was my cousin’s husband taking the mustang for several laps by himself (after the lessons).

Change the car to his “dream car” with perhaps including “take a friend” in this gift. 

Respectively

Joe75


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## TDSC60

Get him a necktie and a copy of Fifty Shades of Gray.

My wife got me a coupon book several years ago. The first one said to be redeemed for a full body massage........... and went from there to others things I could get.


----------



## sokillme

Joe75 said:


> Hi FoolishOne
> 
> Buying a significantly expensive gift, such as a car, could be taken the wrong way by your husband, this soon after starting to reconcile.
> 
> What my cousin did for her husband for his birthday, who is a mustang nut … er … enthusiast, was to pay for a day package at a local professional race track which included:
> 
> a. a current year mustang modified for racing;
> b. laps with a race car driver who drove the vehicle;
> c. lessons how to drive/race this car; and
> d. the pièce de résistance which was my cousin’s husband taking the mustang for several laps by himself (after the lessons).
> 
> Change the car to his “dream car” with perhaps including “take a friend” in this gift.
> 
> Respectively
> 
> Joe75


Had a friend get this, I was jealous. It was a great gift.


----------



## FoolishOne

Joe75 said:


> Hi FoolishOne
> 
> Buying a significantly expensive gift, such as a car, could be taken the wrong way by your husband, this soon after starting to reconcile.
> 
> What my cousin did for her husband for his birthday, who is a mustang nut … er … enthusiast, was to pay for a day package at a local professional race track which included:
> 
> a. a current year mustang modified for racing;
> b. laps with a race car driver who drove the vehicle;
> c. lessons how to drive/race this car; and
> d. the pièce de résistance which was my cousin’s husband taking the mustang for several laps by himself (after the lessons).
> 
> Change the car to his “dream car” with perhaps including “take a friend” in this gift.
> 
> Respectively
> 
> Joe75


That's a great idea. He gets to toy around with his favorite car without making things awkward. 

The demon may be hard to get this package for though. They are pretty rare. Most people who own one seem to store it. He has other cars he likes though. 

Do they do it with formula one cars? He is into formula 1. 

Cars, golf, football, hunting and fishing. Those are his pastimes more or less. Cars is more of a thing he picked up from his grandfather. His grandfather was a car fanatic. Went to the nationals with his grandfather every year before his grandfather's health went.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> That's a great idea. He gets to toy around with his favorite car without making things awkward.
> 
> The demon may be hard to get this package for though. They are pretty rare. Most people who own one seem to store it. He has other cars he likes though.
> 
> Do they do it with formula one cars? He is into formula 1.
> 
> Cars, golf, football, hunting and fishing. Those are his pastimes more or less. Cars is more of a thing he picked up from his grandfather. His grandfather was a car fanatic. Went to the nationals with his grandfather every year before his grandfather's health went.


They do it with race cars. Probably stock cars. I believe you get a driving lesson and then you get to take the car out. It's like a school so you can do multiple lessons. 

Sounded like great fun.


----------



## Joe75

FoolishOne said:


> That's a great idea. He gets to toy around with his favorite car without making things awkward.
> 
> The demon may be hard to get this package for though. They are pretty rare. Most people who own one seem to store it. He has other cars he likes though.
> 
> Do they do it with formula one cars? He is into formula 1.
> 
> Cars, golf, football, hunting and fishing. Those are his pastimes more or less. Cars is more of a thing he picked up from his grandfather. His grandfather was a car fanatic. Went to the nationals with his grandfather every year before his grandfather's health went.


FoolishOne

Another version of ‘going to the track’, is to take your own vehicle noting that your husband has a “hemi cude”. A friend did this with his MB E Class. Same drill – watch a professional drive your car as passenger, take a lesson on how to drive your car as it was meant to be driven and then solo laps on the track.

My cousin’s husband said that being at the track and doing solo laps was 'superb'. Driving a mustang was just icing on the cake. 

Joe 75


----------



## TDSC60

What type of hunting? Duck, geese, deer, moose?

What type of fishing? Salmon, trout, fresh water, salt water?

High quality hunting/fishing gear is always good for a sportsman.


----------



## wmn1

Marc878 said:


> Get your husband involved with the issue around his family. They are protective of one anotheir. Let your H make the decision on how to handle this. Communication is key to your current and future success. This will take time and patience on your part. Put yourself in their shoes.
> 
> This should dissipate with time and seeing you change. Most people want/like to forgive. Give them a reason to.



I am just catching up on this thread and aren't done but came across Marc's post here and while late in the response, this is a great post by Marc. 

The brothers and cousin are protective of each other and that is a good thing.

They came to his defense when Foolishone wasn't there for him. I have seen many posts here on other threads and other sites where the betrayed spouse is encouraged by posters to turn against their family in defense of the wayward when their family was there for them during an affair and all this does is alienate a betrayed from his/her family. I never recommend a betrayed slapping at his/her own family for being angry at the wayward. When I went through my ordeal decades ago, my family and friends encouraged patience at a time when I needed them to encourage constructive anger and vigilant defense of myself. I never reconciled. I tried briefly but it was a no go. I too have been there for a friend who went through a miserable affair and had his back 10000% and he reconciled and I never really liked his wife afterwards. He turned against me and his friends and family too to defend her even though we were just cold to her. Two years later, she dumped him for another guy. Noone was interested in reconnecting with him. 

That's why I am glad that Foolishone is letting her husband deal with this and I do like and respect her patience and maturity in understanding their angst. There is a balance here and it is the husband's values which needs to figure out the balance because what he determines will have consequences for him especially.

As Marc stated, they will come around in time and as long as Foolishone and her husband progresses, their steam will lessen over time.

However, coming between the family at this stage will clearly damage the marriage more.

This is a general thought using this thread as an example but as I said before, I always discourage retaliation or turning against family members who were loyal to the betrayed.


----------



## 2&out

Just a dumb FYI FoolishOne. If it is a real Hemi Cuda it is 1 of 652 ever made. I only say "if it is real" because there are probably 1000 more that have been made as a copy by putting a hemi motor into a car that originally had a different motor. My guess is your husbands is a real one. Yes it is worth a lot of $.


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## FoolishOne

TDSC60 said:


> What type of hunting? Duck, geese, deer, moose?
> 
> What type of fishing? Salmon, trout, fresh water, salt water?
> 
> High quality hunting/fishing gear is always good for a sportsman.


Deer. He went elk hunting once. No luck. He likes venison. I don't. It's gamey. I was thinking about getting him a jerky maker so he can make venison jerky. That or a smoker. 

He is pretty well equipped for fishing. He has a whole closet full of poles. Multiple waders. I don't know exactly what he could use.

Salmon, walleye, bass and some trout btw.


----------



## FoolishOne

2&out said:


> Just a dumb FYI FoolishOne. If it is a real Hemi Cuda it is 1 of 652 ever made. I only say "if it is real" because there are probably 1000 more that have been made as a copy by putting a hemi motor into a car that originally had a different motor. My guess is your husbands is a real one. Yes it is worth a lot of $.


Its supposed to be. That's what he says. I don't know crud about cars so I go by his word. He paid out the a for it even though it was in somewhat bad shape from not being maintained and stored properly. He put a lot of work and money into that car. He got it after his business took off. I thought he was a fool at the time to spend so much. He went on and on about how rare it was and how little miles it had on it despite its bad condition and how it was a once in a lifetime chance that he probably wouldn't get again. I wasn't supportive of his purchase at the time and I regret that. He treats it like an antique painting. Just runs it enough to keep it from breaking... If that makes any sense?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

FoolishOne said:


> Do they do it with formula one cars? He is into formula 1.


 I would seriously doubt you will find a "driving experience for a single seat open (no where for an instructor) wheel car especially a Formula 1. They are incredibly powerful and incredibly expensive.
Something like this would be a good starting point.
https://www.thextremexperience.com/


----------



## MaiChi

Do you think this marriage could be alive again?


----------



## BluesPower

MaiChi said:


> Do you think this marriage could be alive again?


Actually, this is one of the few. She busted him in his affair and confessed all details about her previous affair. 

I think they really have a chance. She is doing everything right, and he is working with her. 

I think this will be a happy one...


----------



## TDSC60

FoolishOne said:


> Deer. He went elk hunting once. No luck. He likes venison. I don't. It's gamey. I was thinking about getting him a jerky maker so he can make venison jerky. That or a smoker.
> 
> He is pretty well equipped for fishing. He has a whole closet full of poles. Multiple waders. I don't know exactly what he could use.
> 
> Salmon, walleye, bass and some trout btw.


I am an avid deer hunter. My wife hates venison too. Hint: marinate venison steaks in milk or buttermilk overnight before cooking. Cooked venison steaks over a charcoal fire for her once and didn't tell her what it was. She swears to this day that I am lying about it being venison.

Get the jerky maker! He can make beef jerky (if deer or elk is not available). Jerky is a must have for hunting trips and also go for fishing trip. If well made, good for just a snack around the house for all. My favorite is teriyaki jerky. 

I think a car is way over the top. While your intentions are good, it would be better if he were directly involved in make the decision of which car.


----------



## TDSC60

Another option for a sportsman is a target pistol with all the accessories (case, ammunition, glasses, ear protection).

Then get him a membership at a local shooting range.

I know it sounds crazy to most, but I go to the range at least once a month an there is something relaxing and satisfying about it.

My wife goes with me about half the time. She enjoys it. Squeals like a kid when she get near the center ring.


----------



## sokillme

@FoolishOne your posts on bobert's thread were very good. I think you finally get it, and whatever happens that is a good thing. It's only going to mean good things for your life. You have grown up. 

I am struck the most by the fact that I think you deeply understand now how much your husband has always loved you and more importantly how priceless that is. So I say give great gifts or give no gifts at all, but do everything in your power to make sure your husband knows that YOU KNOW and believe this and that will be your best path to healing each other.

I think for many of us men even more then love, knowing our wives respect us and get how much we love them is really what we want. 

I actually have hope for you.


----------



## [email protected]

I shot some ducks in Eastern Oregon and had some for dinner. after waking next morning I had cold roast duck and chablis, one of the best breakfasts I've had. Another time, I caught some large rainbows at a Diamond Lake in Oregon. We cooked and ate them on shore that day. Great feast!


----------



## sokillme

@FoolishOne now that time has passed and you seem to be getting on the right track I have a question and if you want to answer them I would ask that you really be honest. I get it though if this is to personal. 

How much is this what I believe is a real metamorphosis you have gone under do to the fact that you caught your husband cheating?

Do you think if you never caught him doing so would you have worked as hard as you have been or would you have stayed in the status quo that you had found yourself in?

Did the pain of his cheating finally give you some true empathy towards what it is like to get cheated on? 

What specific things did you learn?

Was it the true fear that goes with finally understanding that you were going to lose everything?

What will be different when you get comfortable or at least when the fear subsides?

If his cheating really was a part of your change why do you think it took that to get you to wake up?

Now that you have spent so much time on this in the last year or so why do you think you were the way that you were that allowed you to cheat?

Do you think you had a lack of empathy? If so why?

Do you think if there was NO cheating on his part but he just told you it was too painful to love you anymore and was going to leave you would it have had the same impact? 

Or was it the added humiliation that cheating causes that really put it over the top?

After going through all this what are your feelings about yourself and your life and marriage as a whole?


----------



## Violet28

Does he have a mancave?


----------



## sokillme

@FoolishOne

Are you still with us? What did you end up getting him for Christmas?


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> @FoolishOne
> 
> Are you still with us? What did you end up getting him for Christmas?


Flight lessons! He was already thinking about it. We are going to go together. I was worried about getting a gift that he might think of as forcing him to do something he didn't actually want to do just yet, but he loved it. Someone on the thread mentioned driving lessons on a race track with a professional and I was thinking about golf lessons from a pro and it lead me into the thought of flight lessons.

I also gave him the presents I already mentioned , a sweater I made myself, and a watch.

It was a pretty great Christmas. Our daughters are very happy. 

I didn't see my thread pop to the top of the infidelity forum for a while so I didn't see your questions and most of the last few posts until now. Give me a bit to think hard about your questions and give my answers. I don't really have the time till later tonight or tomorrow for more than a check in.

Thanks for checking up on us. Happy New Year btw.


----------



## farsidejunky

Keep working. 

Y'all are doing great, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes.

YOU are doing great, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## FoolishOne

sokillme said:


> @FoolishOne now that time has passed and you seem to be getting on the right track I have a question and if you want to answer them I would ask that you really be honest. I get it though if this is to personal.
> 
> How much is this what I believe is a real metamorphosis you have gone under do to the fact that you caught your husband cheating?


Percentage? I don't know. But I wasn't all in until that point. I climbed the hill but stalled at the top. I guess finding out about his affair was the push I needed to throw all the cards on the table. I was coming around on a lot of things. Learning how to be a good wife and partner in a lot of ways... But not there yet. Not at the point where I truly opened myself to him 100 percent.



sokillme said:


> Do you think if you never caught him doing so would you have worked as hard as you have been or would you have stayed in the status quo that you had found yourself in?


I went back and forth as time progressed about telling him, and opening myself fully, but I honestly don't know. I know I would have been working towards bettering myself. Bettering my marriage.... But would I have gotten to the point I have now and been as open and honest as I am now? It's a question I can't honestly know the answer to.



sokillme said:


> Did the pain of his cheating finally give you some true empathy towards what it is like to get cheated on?


YES. I somewhat understood that trust was an issue. I've felt betrayed by others before. Nothing like infidelity level stuff, but I got it mostly. BUT. I couldn't even begin to understand how worthless being cheated on makes a person feel until I had experienced it myself. I COULDN'T understand one bit how ugly and pathetic and small it makes the betrayed spouse feel.

I did that to him. But worse. For no real reason and out of nowhere. He was gutted from behind by the person he trusted. How could it not feel personal, intentional, and demeaning as well as make him feel worthless?




sokillme said:


> Was it the true fear that goes with finally understanding that you were going to lose everything?


EveryTHING? Nope. Losing my husband.. YEAH. I really just want my husband. Im sure the fear of the unknown and being on my own with a need to look out for myself played its part, but it was mostly about losing the man who I had come to realize was a damn good man once I stopped sabotaging my own view of him with my own negativity and toxicity. If I had found out he was in an affair earlier into my work on changing myself.... I probably would have used his affair as ammunition to fire at him as a power play.



sokillme said:


> What will be different when you get comfortable or at least when the fear subsides?


I feel I have shed A lot of arogance. A lot of my self centered view of just about everything. I am not the center of the world anymore. I take joy in that. 

I was always emotionally charged before. Ready to snap. Ready to blame others. Always filled with anger. Always needing to be in control.

I'm not anymore. I take a second, take a breath.... and LET GO. I don't need to be right. I don't need control. I don't have to be the center of everything. I enjoy doing for others. Mainly my husband and children.

It's ****ing libererating. Dear God it is. It's hard to explain. And in a lot of ways the fear is almost all gone already. What will be will be. I will do my best. I'll enjoy every moment as it comes.

If we fail at this point I don't think it is because we didn't try hard enough. Or that we didn't do it right. It will be because it was already over. I don't want to look back and say I could have done better after a divorce. At least that way I can salvage a little dignity should all fall through despite our best efforts.

The dynamic of our marriage has also changed almost completely. I like it. I really do. Why would I ever want to go back?



sokillme said:


> Now that you have spent so much time on this in the last year or so why do you think you were the way that you were that allowed you to cheat?


A part of me wants to point at others and say it's all thier fault for spoiling me. But it's not. A better person treated by my parents and my husband in the same way would have not taken it for granted. They would have seen such kindness for what it was and not taken advantage of it as if it was thier God given right.

I was selfish. Lazy in a way. Why work on myself when I can make others conform to my every need and want? Why take the blame for my actions when I can force the blame on others? All while deluding myself I was in the right. It was too easy for the weak minded person I was to turn down. 



sokillme said:


> Do you think you had a lack of empathy? If so why?


I can't really answer this as well as you may like, but I guess it's like a muscle never used or at least rarely used...?



sokillme said:


> Do you think if there was NO cheating on his part but he just told you it was too painful to love you anymore and was going to leave you would it have had the same impact?
> 
> Or was it the added humiliation that cheating causes that really put it over the top?


Ever hear of Schrodinger's cat or the quantum cat? I honestly can't be sure. I can guess that I wouldn't have understood his pain nearly as much and been as understanding of that choice should he have made it, but other than that I'm not sure how I would have reacted.



sokillme said:


> After going through all this what are your feelings about yourself and your life and marriage as a whole?


I'm happy. Part of me thinks I don't have that right. But I'm enjoying it nonetheless. I'm still ashamed of my past actions and always will be, but I really think I'm not that person anymore. Not completely at least. Im going to show the truth of that everyday. One day at a time. Half assing it is unacceptable at this point. I refuse to add to my shame or my husband's any further. I refuse to make his sacrifice be in vain.

Whatever happens I'm going forward with the blinders off and my husband first in my mind. My husband seems to be on board with doing the same.

I like to think of us as two old gnarled trees twisted around eachother. We are both leaning on eachother. But as we lean on eachother we also gain support. The very act of those two trees needing to lean also supports the other. 

Melodramatic I guess, but I think of those two old twisted tree as miraculous. Would either one stand without the other? It's a privilege to support my husband as much as it is to lean on him. 



Was that helpful? I tried my best, and I'm still working on those answers every day. That's what I have for now.


----------



## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> Was that helpful? I tried my best, and I'm still working on those answers every day. That's what I have for now.


This was a wonderfully thoughtful answer. 



> Ever hear of Schrodinger's cat or the quantum cat? I honestly can't be sure. I can guess that I wouldn't have understood his pain nearly as much and been as understanding of that choice should he have made it, but other than that I'm not sure how I would have reacted.


Interesting. I am unsure of your context though, are you saying you have no way of knowing because you only experienced it one way?



> I like to think of us as two old gnarled trees twisted around eachother. We are both leaning on eachother. But as we lean on eachother we also gain support. The very act of those two trees needing to lean also supports the other.
> 
> Melodramatic I guess, but I think of those two old twisted tree as miraculous. Would either one stand without the other? It's a privilege to support my husband as much as it is to lean on him.


This is particularly lovely. 

For me this story and others like it are the reason why I would never say that having a revenge affair always makes the marriage worse (which is often said when this kind of stuff comes up). I have just read too many times that sometimes that is what it takes to make the WS understand. As twisted as it is sometimes it does make the marriage better. 

However I still argue against it because I think having an affair does great damage to the person having it. The cost of ones honor is just too high for the payoff of trying to teach someone else empathy. It also doesn't seem intuitive that hurting someone else (the other spouse if you are in an adulterous relationship) or even the person you are having an affair with if you're only using them to get back at you unfaithful spouse, is a good way to build empathy in someone else. It could be argued though if you both are doing it, say if the two cheated on spouses just have casual sex to get back at their spouses then they are only hurting people who deserve it. Honestly I could see this point but still I would advise against it. Then my reasoning would be because if the feelings are real you would still be better able to pursue this new relationship without the added problem of still being married to someone else. In other words just divorce and meet someone new. In this way you give yourself the best chance at a good start. That doesn't mean revenge affairs don't work though, as you are an example and not the only one.

Continuing that thought, what do you think your husband thinks and how do you think about that?

There was probably and may still be a feeling of justice or payback in the fact that you got to experience at least the type of pain and worthlessness that he surly felt. 

If I am being honest I am probably less hard on you on these boards because of this, and also more in favor of reconciliation in your case because of this sense of justice. That probably doesn't say good things about me or my advice though. 

This brings up the idea that his affair may have even have been healing for him in the sense that it may have given him back a feeling of still being attractive to other women. Given him his mojo back so to speak, though in a sleazy way at the expense of others. Do you think this is true? Would he agree?

Do you think he looks back on it with guilt or not? I know for me the guilt of knowing the pain that I helped create in that women's husband would be hard for me to take. I also would not want to think of myself as capable of that. No offense but from my point of view no women or relationship would be worth my honor. 

Do you think this has cost your husband (not your affair now but his?)

What do you think would have happened if your husband's paramour had been more then just a booty call but someone who he really fell in love with? 

Would that have been worse?

Would you have fought for him at that point? 

Where do you think you would be now if say he just left you at that point?

Maybe say you were to find out at the point where he was leaving, do you think you would have gotten to this same place if he hadn't stayed around or you marriage had ended?

Overall can you think of any way or any point before all this happened that this could have all been prevented?

Was there ever a point where you would have been open enough to change without the destruction?

Finally how are YOU doing? How far along are you? Do you know the sex of the baby?


----------



## blahfridge

sokillme said:


> This was a wonderfully thoughtful answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. I am unsure of your context though, are you saying you have no way of knowing because you only experienced it one way?
> 
> 
> 
> This is particularly lovely.
> 
> For me this story and others like it are the reason why I would never say that having a revenge affair always makes the marriage worse (which is often said when this kind of stuff comes up). I have just read too many times that sometimes that is what it takes to make the WS understand. As twisted as it is sometimes it does make the marriage better.
> 
> However I still argue against it because I think having an affair does great damage to the person having it. The cost of ones honor is just too high for the payoff of trying to teach someone else empathy. It also doesn't seem intuitive that hurting someone else (the other spouse if you are in an adulterous relationship) or even the person you are having an affair with if you're only using them to get back at you unfaithful spouse, is a good way to build empathy in someone else. It could be argued though if you both are doing it, say if the two cheated on spouses just have casual sex to get back at their spouses then they are only hurting people who deserve it. Honestly I could see this point but still I would advise against it. Then my reasoning would be because if the feelings are real you would still be better able to pursue this new relationship without the added problem of still being married to someone else. In other words just divorce and meet someone new. In this way you give yourself the best chance at a good start. That doesn't mean revenge affairs don't work though, as you are an example and not the only one.
> 
> Continuing that thought, what do you think your husband thinks and how do you think about that?
> 
> There was probably and may still be a feeling of justice or payback in the fact that you got to experience at least the type of pain and worthlessness that he surly felt.
> 
> If I am being honest I am probably less hard on you on these boards because of this, and also more in favor of reconciliation in your case because of this sense of justice. That probably doesn't say good things about me or my advice though.
> 
> This brings up the idea that his affair may have even have been healing for him in the sense that it may have given him back a feeling of still being attractive to other women. Given him his mojo back so to speak, though in a sleazy way at the expense of others. Do you think this is true? Would he agree?
> 
> Do you think he looks back on it with guilt or not? I know for me the guilt of knowing the pain that I helped create in that women's husband would be hard for me to take. I also would not want to think of myself as capable of that. No offense but from my point of view no women or relationship would be worth my honor.
> 
> Do you think this has cost your husband (not your affair now but his?)
> 
> What do you think would have happened if your husband's paramour had been more then just a booty call but someone who he really fell in love with?
> 
> Would that have been worse?
> 
> Would you have fought for him at that point?
> 
> Where do you think you would be now if say he just left you at that point?
> 
> Maybe say you were to find out at the point where he was leaving, do you think you would have gotten to this same place if he hadn't stayed around or you marriage had ended?
> 
> Overall can you think of any way or any point before all this happened that this could have all been prevented?
> 
> Was there ever a point where you would have been open enough to change without the destruction?
> 
> Finally how are YOU doing? How far along are you? Do you know the sex of the baby?


There is so much wisdom in this post, I had to respond. 
My revenge affair - though I prefer the term reactive affair - resulted in every single one of the disastrous results that sokillme eloquently enumerated. My H finally sees the destruction his affairs created but it has been at too high a cost for me to bear. When the first affair was uncovered, had he fallen on his knees to beg my forgiveness, done everything he could to show me true remorse then ironically we would probably be reconciled. But it took my own affair for him to suddenly decide he loved me and didn't want to lose me. By that time, I had one foot out the door already and all trust was gone. He may truly believe he loves me, but it's an opportunistic love borne out of his fear of losing his children and his home. I can see that it is different for you.


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## FoolishOne

I'll have to answer your other questions later after I have some time to think about them.

But the baby is a boy! We did a NIPT test to check for down syndrome and other issues and got our answer. My husband was all smiles. 🙂 the baby seems perfectly healthy as well.


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## SeattleWill

faithfulman said:


> One of the big hurdles here is that your husband may be in a situation that he likely finds to be waaaaay better than being with you.
> 
> Unlike you who chucked it all away for a short fat loser who nodded his head when you whined about your life, your husband found himself a young and tight girl who sucks him off and takes it anally for him - and lets him document it on video!
> 
> I'll bet she doesn't belittle him either.
> 
> If he wants to even consider staying with you, chances are you're going to have to match and exceed that action.
> 
> Can you beat that? Have you tried? What is sex like at the moment?
> 
> Even more challenging, if you do "bring it" sexually, then he is going to run through mind movies of you giving blowjobs and anal (Or whatever it was. He'll figure you were way more into sex with your AP since you shunned and betrayed him for this man and he is probably correct.)
> 
> That thought process may cause him to not want to touch you at all.
> 
> In fact, he may have left that video evidence for you to enjoy so you can marinate in some of the hurt, disgust, and uncertainty you made him feel before he cuts you loose.
> 
> Be prepared that you may have been replaced with an upgrade.


Agreed!


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## sokillme

FoolishOne said:


> I'll have to answer your other questions later after I have some time to think about them.
> 
> But the baby is a boy! We did a NIPT test to check for down syndrome and other issues and got our answer. My husband was all smiles. 🙂 the baby seems perfectly healthy as well.


How are you doing, how is the baby?


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## Plan 9 from OS

BluesPower said:


> You know I am as harsh as anyone, but come on guys.
> 
> @FoolishOne, her husband, his OW, her AP, the only one that is innocent is the OWH as far as we know.
> 
> But to say that the OW is worse than FoolishOne, guys that is silly. She is the same as FO, that is the bottom line.
> 
> The only thing that FO has is her favor is she did not completely trash her H, so there is that.
> 
> All this relative outrage is just ridiculous. And, let's completely be honest. FO's husband would have probably NEVER had an affair if she had not had one first.
> 
> *And of course FO's H had an affair JUST to get his balls back, and he did some coke, give me a break. The man needed to get his balls back, and they are fully attached, so he can get his head together now. *
> 
> Let's get this thing in focus, nobody here is clean, they have all made mistakes.
> 
> AND DO NOT TELL OWH in person. I put a man in the hospital for that one time, so no do not do that.
> 
> Both of you need to chill for a few days and take your time with all of this.
> 
> And @FoolishOne, you are getting support because you manage to understand what we were telling you, you confessed, and you are moving forward.
> 
> Just keep moving forward...


What a crock of ****. FO's husband may have needed to get his balls back like you said - but there were plenty of MUCH better ways to do it. FO's husband IS a POS. What FO did prior to FOH deciding to jump in bed with a married woman is irrelevant. HE decided to sleep with a married woman and HE decided to get his jollies off emasculating another man simply because he had it done to him. Gives new meaning to the phrase "Pay it forward" I guess... JFC...


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## Plan 9 from OS

My previous post was based on what I knew at the moment when I made the response - roughly in the middle of the thread. I read the rest of the thread. I'm glad the OWH was told about the affair his wife had with FOH. I'm glad OWH is divorcing the cheating skank of a wife. I get that FO had an affair first and that she was horrible to be around before, during and early in the aftermath of the affair around DD. Still, zero excuse for FOH to seek out a MARRIED WOMAN for his RA. IMHO, what FOH did was worse than FO. Both of them did rotten things, but FOH was worse. He KNEW what it felt like to be cheated on - and he "payed it forward" to ensure that some other dude got a chance to feel the same thing. He played a part in that.

So...why am I so hung up on FOH? Because IMHO they BOTH need IC. I'm really curious about how much remorse (not regret) that FOH has for hurting the BH of his paramour. Such a gross lack of empathy - which IMHO makes it so much more difficult to try to put this marriage back together. We need to hear more about FOH's atonement and how he's trying to make things right in this **** storm of a marriage. IMHO, very important if they want a chance to get it right. JMHO.


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