# Circling the Bowl



## OZZP

Found out my wife has been lying about knowing another man, texting him, etc. Apparently, the texts basically stopped about a year ago. I'm not certain what the texts contain, but the volume of lies and denials tell me that it can't be good. Why lie if it were harmless?

She was outed by an upset exfriend. She denied everything and told me the ex friend was trying to mess with our family etc. She did slowly admit to a few very minor details, a guy with his name did speak to her, she couldn't be sure of his last name or any other details.

Months passed, I figured out who he was when exfriend dropped some more information. My wife confirmed, that she thought that might be his name and maybe he drove that type of car.

I've since obtained his cell phone number and went through our old phone bills. The two sent hundreds of emails back and forth for several months. I cant tell the content and have searched her phone but found nothing. 

She did get a new for Christmas, I think that may be why I can't find old texts and contacts.

Not sure what to do from here. I know she'll lie again.

Thoughts?


----------



## OZZP

Not sure how to correct my entry, but they sent hundreds of texts... I haven't found any emails.


----------



## getting it together

That she lied tells the story. You can't be sure of a PA but you might assume an EA. It sucks not knowing. Keep vigilant. She does not seem to want to divulge anything so keep an eye out. Remember, skype, messanger and facebook only show up on phone bills as data and show no number associated with them. I am sorry you are in this position. Hang in there.


----------



## anchorwatch

OZZP said:


> Found out my wife has been lying about knowing another man, texting him, etc.
> 
> Not sure what to do from here. I know she'll lie again.
> 
> Thoughts?



Read these...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html#post9756666

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Best


----------



## Spicy

Order a copy of her texts printed out from your cell carrier during the time you see they were communicating.
Also, look for texting apps on her phone such as Whatsapp. Rarely does someone need to use that if everyone they communicate with is from the same country as them. In the same country you text with your phone rather than an app, unless you are hiding communication.


----------



## Ckone1800

OZZP said:


> Found out my wife has been lying about knowing another man, texting him, etc. Apparently, the texts basically stopped about a year ago. I'm not certain what the texts contain, but the volume of lies and denials tell me that it can't be good. Why lie if it were harmless?
> 
> 
> 
> She was outed by an upset exfriend. She denied everything and told me the ex friend was trying to mess with our family etc. She did slowly admit to a few very minor details, a guy with his name did speak to her, she couldn't be sure of his last name or any other details.
> 
> 
> 
> Months passed, I figured out who he was when exfriend dropped some more information. My wife confirmed, that she thought that might be his name and maybe he drove that type of car.
> 
> 
> 
> I've since obtained his cell phone number and went through our old phone bills. The two sent hundreds of emails back and forth for several months. I cant tell the content and have searched her phone but found nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> She did get a new for Christmas, I think that may be why I can't find old texts and contacts.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what to do from here. I know she'll lie again.
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?




What details did the ex friend give that your wife denies? I would almost bet she was being truthful. Truth hurts the most to a liar. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## arbitrator

*You can bet your sweet a$$ that if the "text message count" is either up in or exceeding the hundreds, that he's probably busy getting his appendage "wet," all behind your back!*


----------



## OZZP

Details from the ex friend are that my wife met this guy at a restaurant///bar when she. Was out with a group of friends. She says my wife flirted with the guy in front of everybody and was receptive to him hitting on her. She says she couldn't stop talking about him and told me they were constantly communicating. She says my wife was the one who always wanted to go where this guy would be when they went out. She also said my wife did deny that anything went on, but no one believed it.


----------



## OZZP

Spicy, we have. A family plan. It is in. My wife's name. Will they still send me the texts? I would like to have that information in hand before I confront here again as I think confronting too soon was a mistake. Hopefully, I can beat the anxiety and keep my mouth shut a few days.


----------



## Satya

If you know she's going to lie, then your options are:

1. Eat lie for the rest of your life with her. 
2. Let her go and lose the lies.


----------



## OZZP

Satya, I guess I would like a different path. I'd like to know. Even if I walk out, I want to know. I'm going to stop at bestbuy and get a voice recorder.


----------



## eric1

Ask her for her phone. Tell her you have installed 'Dr Fone' and it can recover deleted text from previous devices through iCloud Backup (it can't, you're bluffing)

Her face at that instant will tell you what you need to know


----------



## GusPolinski

eric1 said:


> Ask her for her phone. Tell her you have installed 'Dr Fone' and it can recover deleted text from previous devices through iCloud Backup (it can't, you're bluffing)
> 
> Her face at that instant will tell you what you need to know


If the old backups are still out in iCloud, it sure can.


----------



## OZZP

Her old phone was a Samsung. Any way to get that back without the phone?


----------



## OZZP

The new phone she has is an iPhone.


----------



## GusPolinski

OZZP said:


> Her old phone was a Samsung. Any way to get that back without the phone?


Not unless a) you still have access to the phone and b) the phone hasn't yet been wiped.


----------



## GusPolinski

OZZP said:


> The new phone she has is an iPhone.


Smart money says they're still in contact. Or maybe she's moved onto someone else.

Or both.

Assuming that she's still up to whatever with whoever, they're likely communicating via some sort of ephemeral messaging app (WhatsApp, Snapchat, Kik, Viber, etc) or perhaps Facebook Messenger, Instagram, or even a game like Words With Friends that allows chat.

How tech savvy are you?


----------



## OZZP

I am not tech expert, but do use Google to help with setting up stuff like our router, printer, etc. I am more tech savvy than my wife so that should be a plus. I can check her phone for the apps you have listed. She also uses a PC. I'm going to get a keylogger that I read about for that.


----------



## OZZP

I do not still have the old phone, we traded it in.


----------



## GusPolinski

Does she use a Mac or a PC?

Does she use an iPad?

What kind of phone do _you_ use? If you use an iPhone as well, do you use the same iCloud/iTunes account with yours that she uses with hers (doubtful)?

What about the kids? Do they use any Apple devices? If so, do they share an iCloud/iTunes account with your wife?

What version of iOS is she using on her phone?

Has she enabled two-factor authentication for her iCloud account?

Do you know her screen unlock code?

Can you unlock her phone using _your_ fingerprint?


----------



## OZZP

She uses a PC

She does not have an iPad but I do, am using it now.
We do not share an iCloud account, she has her own, so does our child. We have 3 iPhones now, that is why she switched to an iPhone.

I can unlock her phone with her 6 digit code, not my fingerprint.

We do update our software when new versions come out. I believe she. Has the same. Version. As me. Under settings/version mine says 10.3.2. I do not have her phone in hand at the moment, but am fairly confident hers will be the same.

The only apple devices we have are my iPad, and the 3 iPhones.

Does this help?


----------



## OZZP

In looking at our bill, some of the texts were pictures. I can't believe they would be provocative as she does not send me anything like that, but my mind is racing.


----------



## GusPolinski

OZZP said:


> She uses a PC
> 
> She does not have an iPad but I do, am using it now.
> We do not share an iCloud account, she has her own, so does our child. We have 3 iPhones now, that is why she switched to an iPhone.
> 
> I can unlock her phone with her 6 digit code, not my fingerprint.
> 
> We do update our software when new versions come out. I believe she. Has the same. Version. As me. Under settings/version mine says 10.3.2. I do not have her phone in hand at the moment, but am fairly confident hers will be the same.
> 
> The only apple devices we have are my iPad, and the 3 iPhones.
> 
> Does this help?


Does she have two-factor authentication enabled?

Do you have the email address and password for her iCloud account?

Do you know the password for her email account?

Note the difference between those last two questions.


----------



## GusPolinski

Also, who is your carrier (Verizon, ATT, etc)?


----------



## TX-SC

If your wife was chasing someone else, it's cheating. Even if they didn't get physical, the number of texts indicates she was having at least an emotional affair. A VAR might help if they are still communicating, but it will be useless if they are not.


----------



## Ckone1800

OZZP said:


> In looking at our bill, some of the texts were pictures. I can't believe they would be provocative as she does not send me anything like that, but my mind is racing.




Don't get your hopes up, as it is very often that wayward spouses are discovered doing many things with the affair partner that is not done with their betrayed spouse. 

I think it's part of keeping it fresh and exciting. It's something different. 

If she is sending him provocative photos, and he is in turn feeding her ego, it makes a lot of sense. 

And I'm not sure what it is nowadays, but men seem to really enjoy sending images of their penises, like that's what gets the women going or something. She may feel the need to reciprocate. 

Just keep your eyes and ears open, and keep your expectations in check. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## drifting on

Ozzp 

So if I read your posts correctly, you have proof she contacted him hundreds of times yet says to you that could be his name, implying she barely knows who he is? Is that correct? If this is correct and you cannot do as @GusPolinski says with the phone, schedule a polygraph. 

Do not tell your wife you have scheduled a polygraph test. Tell her when you arrive at the examination location. You will be allowed to ask five yes/no questions. My guess is you will get the parking lot confession once you dump the evidence of the phone bill on her lap. At this point you tell her she is a confirmed liar and she will now take a polygraph test to confirm the truth. Most likely she will spill some trickle truth. She will swear to anything that all she just told you is the complete truth. Just say liar, are you coming and walk inside. 

Cheaters lie, and you my friend, are about to embark on one hell of a roller coaster ride. Also, Gus has a saying on here, and I know I'm saying it wrong, but if your wife met with him, proximity means physical affair. Sorry to be blunt, but you deserve the truth and the only person able to give it to you, won't. Best of luck to you.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

Also ... keep an eye on credit card statements. They can link her to him too. Keep you poker face on at this time and do not tip your hand to her prematurely. Let her think she's getting away with the hanky panky.


----------



## Youngwife1000

OZZP

Sorry to hear you are in this position. I think you definitely need to sort out a polygraph, I know you said you don't believe she would of sent provocative pictures, however, I don't think you believed she'd be capable of a lot of things you are finding out.
I was, still am devastated to discover the world my husband was living in for 6 months of our marriage, the infidelity and deceit is heartbreaking. However I was drip fed many lies until I arranged the polygraph, 24 hours before he came clean and I used the polygraph to confirm if what he said was true.
We are in a place of overcoming, not yet reconciliation but that's is where I'd like to end up. 
I'm sorry but I don't think you should believe to much of what your wife is feeding you, she seems by all accounts, very aware of what her intentions were with the OM.'
All the best.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mizzbak

OZZP said:


> Details from the ex friend are that my wife met this guy at a restaurant///bar when she. Was out with a group of friends. She says my wife flirted with the guy *in front of everybody* and was receptive to him hitting on her. She says she couldn't stop talking about him and told me they were constantly communicating. She says my wife was the one who always wanted to go where this guy would be when they went out. She also said my wife did deny that anything went on, *but no one believed it*.


Ozzp - if your wife behaved like the exfriend alleges she did, then there are more witnesses. Who else in her group of friends can you talk to to get confirmation and possibly other evidence? (Or if you are close to a spouse of one of those friends, try them.)

Did you have any suspicions about your wife's fidelity before this exfriend spoke to you? In my (admittedly limited) experience, the BS will usually have strong messages from their intuition. Which should not be ignored. 

Coldly, I think that you have enough supporting evidence (with the sheer volume and type of communication) to require her to request copies of those text messages even if you can't get them on your own. If she refuses, then she has something to hide. Clearly. (Make sure that she does not have a chance to request that they be deleted/removed from back-up before she can "request" them. i.e. find out whether it can be done, how far back it can go and what exactly to do ... then do it with her standing there.) 

I am going to say that there is a chance that your fears are very real and your wife did have a relationship ... and she chose to end it on her own when she realised that it was wrong and damaging to her marriage. (Duh!). I suspect that many affairs die natural deaths and BS's continue none the wiser (for a while). The WS would argue that, as the relationship is over, they don't need to come clean. Because the damage has been averted and they are sinning no more. Now that your wife's behaviour has almost caught up with her, she is hoping that you're just going to let it go if she keeps pretending nothing happened. (I found out about both my husband's affairs months/years after they had ended. Truth has a way of coming out in the end.) She may even feel that she "nobly" gave up this other man for you. And that she therefore doesn't have to deal with the crap of you finding out. WS's are capable of an enormous amount of moral contortionism. 

If you consider your marriage worth saving, then I'd gather the data that you can. And then either confront her to get copies of the texts (if that is possible) or march her off to MC where you can put the print-out you currently have in front of her and ask her how she possibly expects you to believe that she barely remembers the other man's name. And threaten a polygraph if necessary. It was very helpful for me to confirm that my husband was (finally) telling me the truth.


----------



## aine

She has already cheated, an EA if not already a PA, you know of the copious activity between them on the phones, what more do you need?

If you know this guys name, can you find out if he is married?

Contact his wife/GF and tell them what you have found out, before this ensure you have the PC key logger software loaded and a similar software on her phone. By contacting his wife/GF you are setting the fox in the hen house and there will definitely be some scramble to cover tracks, then you can catch them.
You must plan this.

Alternatively, you could march her to the telecommunications company and insist that all texts are extracted and given to you. Why shouldn't you, you have a right to know.

I would also suggest you do the 180, go and see a good divorce lawyer, you don't have to go through with it but scare the crap out of her and get her spilling the beans.

However, tbh, that kind of lying and cheating is probably something she will do again, better to get rid of her.


----------



## MattMatt

Can you arrange for a meeting with the former friend?

There are some people who break friendships if they discover that their friend is a Cheater.

Perhaps this is what happened?


----------



## OZZP

GusPolinski said:


> Does she have two-factor authentication enabled?
> 
> Do you have the email address and password for her iCloud account?
> 
> Do you know the password for her email account?
> 
> Note the difference between those last two questions.


Gus, I think she has two factor enabled. I set it up on mine and told her about it.

I do not know the password to her iCloud or email


----------



## OZZP

GusPolinski said:


> Also, who is your carrier (Verizon, ATT, etc)?


T-Mobile


----------



## OZZP

drifting on said:


> Ozzp
> 
> So if I read your posts correctly, you have proof she contacted him hundreds of times yet says to you that could be his name, implying she barely knows who he is? Is that correct? If this is correct and you cannot do as @GusPolinski says with the phone, schedule a polygraph.
> 
> Do not tell your wife you have scheduled a polygraph test. Tell her when you arrive at the examination location. You will be allowed to ask five yes/no questions. My guess is you will get the parking lot confession once you dump the evidence of the phone bill on her lap. At this point you tell her she is a confirmed liar and she will now take a polygraph test to confirm the truth. Most likely she will spill some trickle truth. She will swear to anything that all she just told you is the complete truth. Just say liar, are you coming and walk inside.
> 
> Cheaters lie, and you my friend, are about to embark on one hell of a roller coaster ride. Also, Gus has a saying on here, and I know I'm saying it wrong, but if your wife met with him, proximity means physical affair. Sorry to be blunt, but you deserve the truth and the only person able to give it to you, won't. Best of luck to you.


You have the gist. I have solid proof that they texted back and forth solidly and she claimed to basically not know him, then maybe that was him. I have not shown her the old cell phone bills yet. I did save copies of them.


----------



## OZZP

How much does a polygraph cost?


----------



## OZZP

Mizzbak said:


> Ozzp - if your wife behaved like the exfriend alleges she did, then there are more witnesses. Who else in her group of friends can you talk to to get confirmation and possibly other evidence? (Or if you are close to a spouse of one of those friends, try them.)
> 
> Did you have any suspicions about your wife's fidelity before this exfriend spoke to you? In my (admittedly limited) experience, the BS will usually have strong messages from their intuition. Which should not be ignored.
> 
> Coldly, I think that you have enough supporting evidence (with the sheer volume and type of communication) to require her to request copies of those text messages even if you can't get them on your own. If she refuses, then she has something to hide. Clearly. (Make sure that she does not have a chance to request that they be deleted/removed from back-up before she can "request" them. i.e. find out whether it can be done, how far back it can go and what exactly to do ... then do it with her standing there.)
> 
> I am going to say that there is a chance that your fears are very real and your wife did have a relationship ... and she chose to end it on her own when she realised that it was wrong and damaging to her marriage. (Duh!). I suspect that many affairs die natural deaths and BS's continue none the wiser (for a while). The WS would argue that, as the relationship is over, they don't need to come clean. Because the damage has been averted and they are sinning no more. Now that your wife's behaviour has almost caught up with her, she is hoping that you're just going to let it go if she keeps pretending nothing happened. (I found out about both my husband's affairs months/years after they had ended. Truth has a way of coming out in the end.) She may even feel that she "nobly" gave up this other man for you. And that she therefore doesn't have to deal with the crap of you finding out. WS's are capable of an enormous amount of moral contortionism.
> 
> If you consider your marriage worth saving, then I'd gather the data that you can. And then either confront her to get copies of the texts (if that is possible) or march her off to MC where you can put the print-out you currently have in front of her and ask her how she possibly expects you to believe that she barely remembers the other man's name. And threaten a polygraph if necessary. It was very helpful for me to confirm that my husband was (finally) telling me the truth.


 I did consider that other friends of hers would have been there. I asked one of her friends that I thought might tell me the truth a few months ago and she covered for my wife and then tipped off my wife that I asked. That resulted in a huge fight with my wife saying I was crazy and embarrassing our whole family.


----------



## OZZP

aine said:


> She has already cheated, an EA if not already a PA, you know of the copious activity between them on the phones, what more do you need?
> 
> If you know this guys name, can you find out if he is married?
> 
> Contact his wife/GF and tell them what you have found out, before this ensure you have the PC key logger software loaded and a similar software on her phone. By contacting his wife/GF you are setting the fox in the hen house and there will definitely be some scramble to cover tracks, then you can catch them.
> You must plan this.
> 
> Alternatively, you could march her to the telecommunications company and insist that all texts are extracted and given to you. Why shouldn't you, you have a right to know.
> 
> I would also suggest you do the 180, go and see a good divorce lawyer, you don't have to go through with it but scare the crap out of her and get her spilling the beans.
> 
> However, tbh, that kind of lying and cheating is probably something she will do again, better to get rid of her.


He is married. I was looking at his Facebook page. 

Having a hard time with divorce in that i can't believe that may happen. 

Maybe I dumb, but i feel like I am owed honesty even if we divorce. I do know that doesn't mean i will get it.


----------



## OZZP

MattMatt said:


> Can you arrange for a meeting with the former friend?
> 
> There are some people who break friendships if they discover that their friend is a Cheater.
> 
> Perhaps this is what happened?


I can certainly meet with the former friend. Those two have not made up and i doubt will. I think she has likely already told me everything she knows as she was really pissed at my wife. 

They had a falling apart over our kids who also used to be friends. The kids are in the same grade at school. Ours got picked for something at school that she wanted for hers and it just went straight to crazy town from there


----------



## Youngwife1000

OZZP said:


> How much does a polygraph cost?




Depends, you need to do your home work and find a reputable company. I live in the U.K. And just paid £500. It was worth every penny though. X


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GusPolinski

I wouldn't mention a poly until you've established some pretty solid monitoring, because you want to be able to catch any web searches for "how to beat a polygraph", etc.


----------



## Be smart

Ex friend did you a huge favour. You should thank her. 
Rest of her friends who supported her are toxic friends. They have to go from your life no matter if you stay with her,divorce her... Every time she goes out with them is big red flag. 

She is having EA that is for sure. You also need to know that grow up people dont only text.They will jump every opportunity for more (sex). 

Stay strong.


----------



## Mizzbak

OZZP said:


> I can certainly meet with the former friend. Those two have not made up and i doubt will. I think she has likely already told me everything she knows as she was really pissed at my wife. They had a falling apart over our kids who also used to be friends. The kids are in the same grade at school. Ours got picked for something at school that she wanted for hers and it just went straight to crazy town from there


OK then. For what it's worth, it sounds like this ex-friend is the type that should be handled with some care (and if I were you, I'd definitely double-check and substantiate whatever she tells you if you can). Frankly, I'd be far more likely to trust what she says if she'd told you from a moral rather than revenge perspective. That isn't to say that the information she gave you isn't true - I'd just leave a good deal of space for exaggeration for effect. 



OZZP said:


> I did consider that other friends of hers would have been there. I asked one of her friends that I thought might tell me the truth a few months ago and she covered for my wife and then tipped off my wife that I asked. That resulted in a huge fight with my wife saying I was crazy and embarrassing our whole family.


It is possible that this friend doesn't know anything (if the ex-friend embroidered things a bit regarding the public behaviour). That said, she probably does suspect something if she is close to your wife. I could almost understand keeping quiet and not wanting to get involved, but outright lying to protect a cheating friend? For me, the bill showing the volume of texts and images exchanged would be a powerful motivator to get things out in the open. Is this friend married and if so, how close are you to her husband? I'd be tempted to ask him whether he thinks it is OK for his wife to lie to protect your wife from the consequences of her actions and then show him the print out. After all if she can lie about this....



OZZP said:


> How much does a polygraph cost?


Less than you think (online generic estimates are $200 - $800 for a once-off 2 hour interview - which is likely more than enough. I got mine for less than $200, but I'm not US-based). Get several quotes (contact the specialist firms in your area, but don't be afraid to look at single consultants as well.) They should be willing to talk you through the process and answer your questions. There does seem to be a mark-up for relationship-focused polygraphs cf. more run-of-the-mill security-based ones. Probably because the drama quotient could be quite high. I was lucky enough to find a semi-retired examiner who patiently took me through the process and answered all my questions and was very flexible around time/location and price. My husband was treated with respect and sensitivity. Which (oddly) did matter.


----------



## RWB

OZZP

Trying find the smoking gun will consume you if you don't control it. The volume of text, the meeting at bar, the open flirting already confirm an EA. Has it gone PA? She ain't telling guaranteed. 

What you going to do?

First, shut up, no more discussion with W concerning this. Play along, be the great H. However, ear tuned, eyes open. 

The truth is you did the biggest NO NO (I did too) "The Soft Confront". You never show your cards til the dealings done. Your now playing catch-up. Short of some kind of "guilt-remorse" confession (highly highly unlikely) you may never know the extent of this affair. 

But, hear a truth, cheaters rarely stop with one and done. They easily move from from one affair to the next. Lay low now study the evidence post stated above.


----------



## Mizzbak

GusPolinski said:


> I wouldn't mention a poly until you've established some pretty solid monitoring, because you want to be able to catch any web searches for "how to beat a polygraph", etc.


FWIW if I was asked to take a polygraph, even if I was innocent, I'd probably still want to read up on the process to understand it (and worry about the possibility of false positives etc.) I also believe, contrary to some posters here on TAM, that it takes quite some level of skill and experience to beat a polygraph. If the OP's wife is arrogant enough to think she can slip through her first time based on some internet instructions ... well, I certainly wouldn't risk it if I was guilty (based on my reading and exposure). But then, the stupidity and arrogance shown by some WS's often surprises me - what do I know?


----------



## farsidejunky

OZZP said:


> How much does a polygraph cost?


The more relevant question:

What is the value of peace of mind?


----------



## Spicy

OZZP said:


> Spicy, we have. A family plan. It is in. My wife's name. Will they still send me the texts? I would like to have that information in hand before I confront here again as I think confronting too soon was a mistake. Hopefully, I can beat the anxiety and keep my mouth shut a few days.


Do you have the sign in information for paying the bill online? Or are you on the account also at all?


----------



## badmemory

OZZP said:


> In looking at our bill, some of the texts were pictures. I can't believe they would be provocative as she does not send me anything like that, but my mind is racing.


Do you think she sent him pictures of your backyard; her Tupperware collection? The reality is that it's very unlikely she would she send him *anything but* provocative pictures. And *that*, is a strong indication of a PA. Especially when you consider the volume, frequency, and duration of their texts. 

So it's only logical to assume she had a PA and work back from there.


----------



## MattMatt

Mizzbak said:


> FWIW if I was asked to take a polygraph, even if I was innocent, I'd probably still want to read up on the process to understand it (and worry about the possibility of false positives etc.) I also believe, contrary to some posters here on TAM, that it takes quite some level of skill and experience to beat a polygraph. If the OP's wife is arrogant enough to think she can slip through her first time based on some internet instructions ... well, I certainly wouldn't risk it if I was guilty (based on my reading and exposure). But then, the stupidity and arrogance shown by some WS's often surprises me - what do I know?


A lot of people seem to think that they can beat the polygraph expert on the Jeremy Kyle Show.

Attempts to beat the polygraph are flagged with written reports: "Attempted to use breathing technique to defeat polygraph... used pain to try to beat polygraph... etc."


----------



## Youngwife1000

MattMatt said:


> A lot of people seem to think that they can beat the polygraph expert on the Jeremy Kyle Show.
> 
> 
> 
> Attempts to beat the polygraph are flagged with written reports: "Attempted to use breathing technique to defeat polygraph... used pain to try to beat polygraph... etc."




I used the guy who does the polygraph on this show, really great company and travelled to my home. £500. I've seen cheaper but want someone reputable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MattMatt

badmemory said:


> Do you think she sent him pictures of your backyard; her Tupperware collection? The reality is that it's very unlikely she would she send him *anything but* provocative pictures. And *that*, is a strong indication of a PA. Especially when you consider the volume, frequency, and duration of their texts.
> 
> So it's only logical to assume she had a PA and work back from there.


 @OZZP, The thing is that let's suppose they only ever shared photographs of food they ate, weird cloud formations, amusing street signs they saw and the like, that doesn't matter, because they were done in secret. And they therefore damaged the marriage.

If the two of them had spent time sat in the same room as their loyal spouses, and were together in the corner whispering to each other and passing each other notes, then everyone would think they were cheating.

And it's exactly the same with secretive texting and secretive emails/messaging.

She has cheated on you. She has cheated you out of the peace of mind of knowing she is a loyal spouse, whether she actually had sexual contact with him is irrelevant in this context.


----------



## Dannip

@OZZP,

She slow walks talking about him as she is protecting him and their relationship. Her inability to tell you anything says what she is doing is more 
Important than her marriage with you. 

Do you want to save the relationship?

Do you want an exit?

Read the recommended links folks provided you. Formulate a strategy based on you and your goals. Is she a long term relationship partner you want now? Can she fix herself? Do you have the emotional will?

The answer for me was hell no. 

I left my ex with gut feel alone. No way I live my life without trust. I discovered the truth shortly after I kicked her to the curb. 

Tech nowadays would have made no difference for me. No way I tolerate lack of trust.


----------



## Yeswecan

W was making the advances and pursuit. The end game was in mind. I would believe this was a PA.


----------



## OZZP

RWB said:


> OZZP
> 
> Trying find the smoking gun will consume you if you don't control it. The volume of text, the meeting at bar, the open flirting already confirm an EA. Has it gone PA? She ain't telling guaranteed.
> 
> What you going to do?
> 
> First, shut up, no more discussion with W concerning this. Play along, be the great H. However, ear tuned, eyes open.
> 
> The truth is you did the biggest NO NO (I did too) "The Soft Confront". You never show your cards til the dealings done. Your now playing catch-up. Short of some kind of "guilt-remorse" confession (highly highly unlikely) you may never know the extent of this affair.
> 
> But, hear a truth, cheaters rarely stop with one and done. They easily move from from one affair to the next. Lay low now study the evidence post stated above.


I do not know what I will do yet. If it is a PA then we are definitely done. If if it was an EA, probably the same outcome for me. If this is an innocent friend that she hid for some dumb reason then maybe we can recover. Maybe. 

I'm sure you are correct about waiting and watching but my anxiety, sleeplessness appetite loss and racing mind will not let me take that approach. I need to know and am going to hard confront this weekend. I am getting a VAR and keylogger for her pc in place tonight first. 

I can't do limbo


----------



## OZZP

Spicy said:


> Do you have the sign in information for paying the bill online? Or are you on the account also at all?


The account is clearly in her name. I do know how to access the account online as I pay all the bills. She hates balancing the checkbook.

I checked the credit card statements, nothing jumps out at me there. No local hotels, etc. But she stays home to raise the kids and I work, so no need to pay for a hotel if that was something they were looking for.


----------



## OZZP

badmemory said:


> Do you think she sent him pictures of your backyard; her Tupperware collection? The reality is that it's very unlikely she would she send him *anything but* provocative pictures. And *that*, is a strong indication of a PA. Especially when you consider the volume, frequency, and duration of their texts.
> 
> So it's only logical to assume she had a PA and work back from there.


If I head down this path, then we are definitely done. 

She never sent me any provocative pictures. And I would have loved it. There did not seem to be anything wrong with us, so why send them to him and not me? 

I know how stupid that may sound, but I just can't wrap my head around this.


----------



## OZZP

MattMatt said:


> @OZZP, The thing is that let's suppose they only ever shared photographs of food they ate, weird cloud formations, amusing street signs they saw and the like, that doesn't matter, because they were done in secret. And they therefore damaged the marriage.
> 
> If the two of them had spent time sat in the same room as their loyal spouses, and were together in the corner whispering to each other and passing each other notes, then everyone would think they were cheating.
> 
> And it's exactly the same with secretive texting and secretive emails/messaging.
> 
> She has cheated on you. She has cheated you out of the peace of mind of knowing she is a loyal spouse, whether she actually had sexual contact with him is irrelevant in this context.


I should have tried to eat lunch before I read this. I think I may need to call my doctor.

Is it normal to feel physically ill in this situation?


----------



## OZZP

Dannip said:


> @OZZP,
> 
> She slow walks talking about him as she is protecting him and their relationship. Her inability to tell you anything says what she is doing is more
> Important than her marriage with you.
> 
> Do you want to save the relationship?
> 
> Do you want an exit?
> 
> Read the recommended links folks provided you. Formulate a strategy based on you and your goals. Is she a long term relationship partner you want now? Can she fix herself? Do you have the emotional will?
> 
> The answer for me was hell no.
> 
> I left my ex with gut feel alone. No way I live my life without trust. I discovered the truth shortly after I kicked her to the curb.
> 
> Tech nowadays would have made no difference for me. No way I tolerate lack of trust.


Not sure, trying to figure it out, depends on the information I can find. My head is all over the place.


----------



## MattMatt

OZZP said:


> I should have tried to eat lunch before I read this. I think I may need to call my doctor.
> 
> Is it normal to feel physically ill in this situation?


Yep.

Like a massive lump of iron in your torso? That's what I felt.

See your doctor for a temporary fix with something mild like a Serotonin tablet for a week or so.


----------



## badmemory

OZZP said:


> There did not seem to be anything wrong with us, so why send them to him and not me?
> 
> I know how stupid that may sound, but I just can't wrap my head around this.


OZZP,

It is very typical for a WW in a PA to do things with or for the POSOM that she never did for the BS. My WW never sent me pictures in 22 years, but sent that POS anything he wanted.


----------



## OZZP

Going to ask for the rest of the day off and see if I can get in to see my doc. My boss is a hard guy, but I think I can get off today as I'm not very productive anyway


----------



## Mizzbak

Look after yourself, Ozzp.

It is the hardest thing to do ... but remember, no matter the outcome, this too shall pass.


----------



## anchorwatch

@OZZP

*Get yourself to the MD!!! * 

Stop on the way home!!! He/she can give you something to help. 

You're no good to yourself or your family if you don't take care of yourself and turn into a basket case. 

I've seen a lot in my long life. Let me tell you something I learned. *YOU WILL BE OKAY... * 

No matter what happens here with your wife... You're a grown man with a head on your shoulders. You're headding in the right direction by not believing her gaslighting.

*YOU WILL BE OKAY... * 

Best


----------



## bankshot1993

OZZP said:


> If I head down this path, then we are definitely done.
> 
> *She never sent me any provocative pictures*. And I would have loved it. There did not seem to be anything wrong with us, so why send them to him and not me?
> 
> I know how stupid that may sound, but I just can't wrap my head around this.


Unfortunatley I've read enough stories here to now that all to often WW are more than happy to do things with/for their AP that they would never do for their spouse. This one point alone often becomes one of the bigger hurdles to over comes when trying to R.


----------



## Popcorn2015

@OZZP , a question. You don't have to answer if you aren't comfortable, but something to think about:

How were things physically between to two of you during your WW's texting affair? It's very common for a cheating wife to cut her husband off during a PA, because to her it feels like she is cheating on her boyfriend.


----------



## Spicy

Call that number. You can block your number, and it will show up as a blocked call to him. Most people never answer blocked calls. So it should then go to his voicemail, where you would most likely hear is name. If the person answers, then you would know if it was a male or female.


----------



## OZZP

Popcorn2015 said:


> @OZZP , a question. You don't have to answer if you aren't comfortable, but something to think about:
> 
> How were things physically between to two of you during your WW's texting affair? It's very common for a cheating wife to cut her husband off during a PA, because to her it feels like she is cheating on her boyfriend.


Well that is a hurtful thought. Withhold sex from me so she doesn't cheat on her affair partner. Honestly can't say I've noticed a change.

However, we also have a landline phone thru VOIPO. I looked at the call logs for it last night online. There is a number that repeats frequently during the day. It is not his cell. I called it, it is his office number.

Saw my doc yesterday. That went about as well as it can, but I don't feel better yet. I did get today off also.

I was not able to get a VAR last night, but did get a nest camera. She likes to take calls on the back porch, it is covered and private. The Nest also gets audio. She can see it, but I explained it as a security camera. Not sure if it will work. Also not sure it matters as they are in regular contact. I think I'm done with the marriage. 

Checking on polygraph options, but not sure how much more money I want to throw away on a losing venture. It is just that I would like to know even if we get a divorce.


----------



## OZZP

Spicy said:


> Call that number. You can block your number, and it will show up as a blocked call to him. Most people never answer blocked calls. So it should then go to his voicemail, where you would most likely hear is name. If the person answers, then you would know if it was a male or female.


I called the number last night I found on our VOIPO bill. It was his work phone. I Got his voice mail for that. 

I know I'm not acting normal around her. She knows something is off. I just can't fake it that well and honestly don't want to.

I'm going to try going to the driving range today to give her some time at home and see if the Nest camera works. Not sure how much longer i can without confronting... not long.


----------



## RWB

Remember, no confrontation without "IRON CLAD PROOF". 

Don't be me. I bumbled around for years even though my gut was screaming affair. Remember... affairs don't need constant contact to thrive. They are Candy Land for the APs. No bills, no kids, no responsibilities, they can go cold for months at a time and start back up to full speed with 1 email exchange. 

If the truth is what you really want. You alone will have to find it. Put your "spies" in place and play along.


----------



## GusPolinski

The Nest camera was a bad idea: between that and the way you're acting, you've tipped your hand, so don't expect to see any footage or hear any audio of her on the phone with the guy.

Unless she's just really, really dumb.


----------



## drifting on

GusPolinski said:


> The Nest camera was a bad idea: between that and the way you're acting, you've tipped your hand, so don't expect to see any footage or hear any audio of her on the phone with the guy.
> 
> Unless she's just really, really dumb.




Here's to hoping!!! 🍺


----------



## Mizzbak

RWB said:


> Remember, no confrontation without "IRON CLAD PROOF".
> 
> Don't be me. I bumbled around for years even though my gut was screaming affair. Remember... affairs don't need constant contact to thrive. They are Candy Land for the APs. No bills, no kids, no responsibilities, they can go cold for months at a time and start back up to full speed with 1 email exchange.
> 
> If the truth is what you really want. You alone will have to find it. Put your "spies" in place and play along.



Ozzp - I get what RWB is saying, especially since your wife has already shown that she is capable of gaslighting you (telling you that you are embarrassing your family etc. when you do voice your suspicions and concerns). So, by all means, collect extra proof. But think about what more it would take for you to make a decision to precipitate things. And think about what you're going to do when/if you get it. And what you're going to do if you don't. I'm afraid that the pain doesn't magically get less when we know more. 

My husband has cheated on me before ... and frankly, even the lying about barely knowing someone that he was phoning dozens of times a week, would be enough for me to invoke plan Z. I'm not in a "normal marriage" when it come to my spouse's fidelity, so I'm not sure whether a normal marriage should accommodate this type of crap. But it does seem like crap to me. Already. Just on what you have.


----------



## Spicy

OZZP said:


> I called the number last night I found on our VOIPO bill. It was his work phone. I Got his voice mail for that.
> 
> I know I'm not acting normal around her. She knows something is off. I just can't fake it that well and honestly don't want to.
> 
> I'm going to try going to the driving range today to give her some time at home and see if the Nest camera works. Not sure how much longer i can without confronting... not long.


Have you called the cell number also?


----------



## Bananapeel

Did you check her browsing history on the home computer? Right before I got my proof with a VAR my XWW checked up books about wives that have affairs and didn't clear her browsing history. So some wives really are that dumb. 

And OZZP, I'm really sorry you are here. My crystal ball can already predict how this is going to turn out for you. Make sure you eat, exercise, and look after yourself.


----------



## TDSC60

OZZP said:


> If I head down this path, then we are definitely done.
> 
> She never sent me any provocative pictures. And I would have loved it. There did not seem to be anything wrong with us, *so why send them to him and not me? *
> 
> I know how stupid that may sound, but I just can't wrap my head around this.


She wanted her lover to have something "special" that you did not have.


----------



## TDSC60

If you have not told her of the camera yet, take it out or hide it so only the audio function works. 

You can tap your own phone so you hear both sides of the conversation. It can be hooked up to the wires. Look online for the unit. No one should even know it is there.

But I honestly think you have enough already with the recent phone calls to his office to confirm an affair.


----------



## Satya

If you called the OM's work phone on a phone without a blocked number then he'll know you called. Corporate phones have caller ID and all he has to do is see "missed call," see the number that tried calling, and know you called.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Wow! All I can say. I would ask her point blank for access to her phone records past phone and current phone. Tell her you know damn good and well what has transpired and if no access is granted next step is lawyer. Be bold sir. Timidity will get you nothing.


----------



## OZZP

TDSC60 said:


> If you have not told her of the camera yet, take it out or hide it so only the audio function works.
> 
> You can tap your own phone so you hear both sides of the conversation. It can be hooked up to the wires. Look online for the unit. No one should even know it is there.
> 
> But I honestly think you have enough already with the recent phone calls to his office to confirm an affair.


Too late I already told her about the camera.

She is on to me though.


----------



## OZZP

Satya said:


> If you called the OM's work phone on a phone without a blocked number then he'll know you called. Corporate phones have caller ID and all he has to do is see "missed call," see the number that tried calling, and know you called.


I did not block my number guess that was a mistake, but I really want him to know that I know and I really want to confront him. Sooner rather than later.


----------



## OZZP

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Wow! All I can say. I would ask her point blank for access to her phone records past phone and current phone. Tell her you know damn good and well what has transpired and if no access is granted next step is lawyer. Be bold sir. Timidity will get you nothing.


I have to do something. Sitting quiet and waiting will not work for me I can't do that.


----------



## OZZP

Spicy said:


> Have you called the cell number also?


No I did not. I really want to confront him. I'm sure he knows I'm on to it from my call to his work since I didn't block that. 

I think I will do this and see if he answers. 

I also had an idea today to send his boss my home phone logs to show how much time he spends on the clock with my wife.


----------



## OZZP

Bananapeel said:


> Did you check her browsing history on the home computer? Right before I got my proof with a VAR my XWW checked up books about wives that have affairs and didn't clear her browsing history. So some wives really are that dumb.
> 
> And OZZP, I'm really sorry you are here. My crystal ball can already predict how this is going to turn out for you. Make sure you eat, exercise, and look after yourself.


I have not but will. I am going to try something like webwatcher as well. I should be able to get that done tonight.


----------



## OZZP

She also called my mom today and told her I was having problems wasn't myself too much stress and was taking it out on her with a crazy imagination or something along this line based on the call I got from my mom. Now my dad wants to talk to me. I'm going to show him everything 

Also going to confront her after I speak to my dad with what I have and see where that goes. 

I am definitl Confronting her boyfriend as well 

I do not know if the truth can prevent a divorce but more lies will only solidify that decision.


----------



## OZZP

For confronting

Any big difference if I confront him before my wife?


Both are happening soon. I may speak to his wife as well.


----------



## pbj2016

What does your dad say? I know you are going crazy but if you reveal your source to your wife and/or OM the ability to get more information will cease. Your wife is priming the "he's stressed" pump so when it comes out your parents will doubt your story. Doesn't sound good.

I would think confront the OM first. Your wife will deny deny deny because you really don't have facts.


----------



## eric1

You have your lawyer send his workplace a letter with all of the proof. That's how you handle that one.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

OZZP said:


> For confronting
> 
> Any big difference if I confront him before my wife?
> 
> 
> Both are happening soon. I may speak to his wife as well.


Your wife first, his wife second, and lastly POSOM


----------



## TDSC60

Obviously your wife was the aggressor with this guy. She was the one chasing him. It appears she caught him. My guess is that it went physical shortly after she sent photos and before all the calls to his work started.

Does she work? If so, how far apart is the distance between their work sites? Is she still going out with "the girls"?


----------



## MattMatt

MattMatt said:


> A lot of people seem to think that they can beat the polygraph expert on the Jeremy Kyle Show.
> 
> Attempts to beat the polygraph are flagged with written reports: "Attempted to use breathing technique to defeat polygraph... used pain to try to beat polygraph... etc."


Wow! The same man? 

Did you get to meet Jeremy Kyle and Graham?


----------



## hylton7

give us an update dude


----------



## TRy

hylton7 said:


> give us an update dude


 I know that you mean well, but it does not work that way. OP's owe us nothing. We are here to help when they need us. As much many of us would like an update, the OP is dealing with something really big in his life, and does not need any pressure from us. I saw that you are new here, and though that you should know. Be well.


----------



## drifting on

Ozzp 

Her calling your parents to say you are suffering from stress and basically implying to say are crazy is very telling. Your wife (and I use that term loosely) has nothing for you, no love, compassion, dignity, or even a nice thought of you. The way I see it, she is just a snake that loves to feed off you as she loves her boyfriend. This should anger the hell out of you, this should keep you from exposing until you have concrete evidence. 

Meet with your dad, show him the evidence and also give him a copy for safe keeping. Have your dad give this to your mom as well, then have your mom call your wife. Have your mom say that we thank you for the concern of our son, however your concern for our son is sorely misplaced. Your concern for our son is not that of a wife, but rather we pray for you that in six months time you are not completely destroyed. Then tell your mom to hang up. 

What you need to do is stop talking and caring for her. When you get home she isn't there even though she stands directly in front of you. Treat her as she treats you, she has nothing for you so have nothing for her. It's only for a short time. Then take your evidence to the husbands who's wives she was with when she was with OM. Tell those husbands to stay quiet and that their wives may be doing the same and to investigate quietly. Now they will also have a consequence. Treat it like a war, respond as if in war, and first neutralize your enemy before killing it.


----------



## OZZP

pbj2016 said:


> What does your dad say? I know you are going crazy but if you reveal your source to your wife and/or OM the ability to get more information will cease. Your wife is priming the "he's stressed" pump so when it comes out your parents will doubt your story. Doesn't sound good.
> 
> I would think confront the OM first. Your wife will deny deny deny because you really don't have facts.


My dad believes she has a boyfriend and we showed everything to my mom as well. My mom said the timeline lines up with my wife dropping some weight and getting back into shape and it does. She only lost about 10 pounds or so and told me she was doing it for her health. My mom thinks she dropped the weight because she was interested in the other arsehole. 

My mom thought it would be good for me to call his cell number, so I did. I have left him 2 messages stating. My name, contact number. And that I. Wanted to speak to him about my wife, he has not returned my calls, but sent me text warning me that he would sue me if I continued to harass him or any member of his family. I made no threat to him in my message.

I found out where his wife works and plan to go see her tomorrow as I am off. Hopefully, she is working tomorrow.

My wife is now claiming that he is simply a friend that I am making all this stuff up in my head and that my parents are delusional as well. She didn't tell me about it because she knew I would over react like this and apparently, I just want her to be miserable and not have any friends. She says the pictures were probably screen shots of jokes they sent back and forth. Funny, I don't get any of those from my wife either.

She said he won't call me back because he knows I'm unreasonable and he needs to do what is best for him and his family. Funny, she doesn't seem to give me the same consideration and I am her husbband... at least for now.

I told her story I do not believe her and want a divorce as she would only lie to me and hide it if there was something inappropriate as she doesn't hide any of her other friends from me. 

She flipped out told me it is all me, I'm the one with the problem. Her mother is backing her all the way and she is starting to tell people that she thinks I'm losing it and that I'm trying to control every aspect of her life and don't want her to even talk to anyone else. This is complete crap, but desn't seem to matter. Her mom won't even look at the phone records, just backs my wife. 

I still do not feel much better, will give the meds a few more days to kick in and do something, but may be heading back to my doc. Hopefully, there is something else we can try for that part.


----------



## OZZP

drifting on said:


> Ozzp
> 
> Her calling your parents to say you are suffering from stress and basically implying to say are crazy is very telling. Your wife (and I use that term loosely) has nothing for you, no love, compassion, dignity, or even a nice thought of you. The way I see it, she is just a snake that loves to feed off you as she loves her boyfriend. This should anger the hell out of you, this should keep you from exposing until you have concrete evidence.
> 
> Meet with your dad, show him the evidence and also give him a copy for safe keeping. Have your dad give this to your mom as well, then have your mom call your wife. Have your mom say that we thank you for the concern of our son, however your concern for our son is sorely misplaced. Your concern for our son is not that of a wife, but rather we pray for you that in six months time you are not completely destroyed. Then tell your mom to hang up.
> 
> What you need to do is stop talking and caring for her. When you get home she isn't there even though she stands directly in front of you. Treat her as she treats you, she has nothing for you so have nothing for her. It's only for a short time. Then take your evidence to the husbands who's wives she was with when she was with OM. Tell those husbands to stay quiet and that their wives may be doing the same and to investigate quietly. Now they will also have a consequence. Treat it like a war, respond as if in war, and first neutralize your enemy before killing it.



Maybe I should have tried to stay quiet and done better spy work. I just don't have it in me to play cool and do that when my wife is sneaking around. I'm not sure how people manage the control to do that, I can't. This approach probably would have given me more answers, I just couldn't calm down enough to make it work.


----------



## OZZP

hylton7 said:


> give us an update dude


Not much to tell yet. I hope to have more if I can speak to his wife tomorrow. Hopefully, she knows something more.


----------



## mickybill

OZZP said:


> She said he won't call me back because he knows I'm unreasonable and he needs to do what is best for him and his family. Funny, she doesn't seem to give me the same consideration and I am her husband... at least for now.
> .


Gosh, it's odd that she is looking out for the OMs family and not hers.


----------



## anchorwatch

You can see what's right in front of your face, @OZZP. Don't let them gaslight you into doubting yourself. 

Good luck contacting his W.


----------



## GusPolinski

Your wife is a liar and OM is a coward.

Tell her that if the pics were indeed memes, "funny pictures", or whatever to prove it -- hand the phone to you so that you can run recovery software against it.

Or just get the phone from her while she's sleeping and do it without asking.


----------



## OZZP

GusPolinski said:


> Your wife is a liar and OM is a coward.
> 
> Tell her that if the pics were indeed memes, "funny pictures", or whatever to prove it -- hand the phone to you so that you can run recovery software against it.
> 
> Or just get the phone from her while she's sleeping and do it without asking.


Unfortunately she switched from a Samsung to an iPhone about 6 months ago. I wish I could recover the photos. 

If I picked a Samsung and switched her line back to it? Would that work?


----------



## Herschel

OZZP said:


> Unfortunately she switched from a Samsung to an iPhone about 6 months ago. I wish I could recover the photos.
> 
> If I picked a Samsung and switched her line back to it? Would that work?


Where is the Samsung? Did she turn it in?


----------



## Dyokemm

Exposing to OBS with all the evidence you have managed to gather is your best move right now.

POSOM, who had already demonstrated what a cowardly turd he truly is, will almost undoubtedly follow the scumbag OM playbook in these situations....

Your WW will be thrown under the bus and blamed for the A as he scrambles to save his own a** with his BW....

As the A falls apart, both of them will start spinning stories of what has been going on.....but they will end up in a crunch because their stories won't match on important facts, as each will be trying to cast the blame at the other for self-preservation.

If you keep in contact with OBS to share your discoveries, these lies will catch up with both of them and the truth will begin to leak out....

Plus.....your WW has a new phone, and you can't really get into her old pics, etc....

But I bet POSOM has the same phone....and his BW can get at them from HER end if she does recovery on HIS phone.

In this sense, it is rather unfortunate that you confronted POSOM.....he is now tipped off and doing everything he can think of to hide any evidence.

If you had contacted his BW without letting either of the POS cheaters know about it....chances are you could have teamed up for investigation and eventually confronted when the picture was clearer.

Evidence will now be MUCH harder for both you and OBS to find....not impossible.....but far more effort....

Hopefully, when you tell OBS she proves to be a pitbull rather than a rugsweeper.....cowardly POSOM will probably cave and confess quickly if he feels he is losing his M immediately.


----------



## GusPolinski

OZZP said:


> Unfortunately she switched from a Samsung to an iPhone about 6 months ago. I wish I could recover the photos.
> 
> If I picked a Samsung and switched her line back to it? Would that work?


No.

She could be -- and likely is -- texting him still, but via iMessage instead of SMS. Texts sent via iMessage (along with a host of other apps) won't show up on the phone bill, but may be recoverable via programs like Wondershare Dr. Fone. (Not sure if it supports the latest version of iOS, though.)

And it should go without saying that you should tinker using your phone before attempting anything with hers.

Do you have access to her social media accounts?


----------



## TDSC60

Listen to Gus about how to do investigation on her phone. And do not - DO NOT - tell anyone you are going to do this. Do not let your wife know and do not tell OMW that you are going to look at your wife's phone until you have something to show her.

As far as the harassment law suit threat, it is BS. Take the printouts of the phone records with you to show OMW.


----------



## drifting on

Ozzp 

Tell OM this, truth is not harassment, tell him you have a ton of evidence and to file his lawsuit of harassment against you. It makes all the evidence become accessible to the public, is that what he wants? You have the power, use it to your advantage!! Go see his wife, show her the evidence. Screw OM and his harnessment threat, ask him why he has to threaten you?


----------



## Dyokemm

lmao....harassment huh?

Tell POS to go ahead.....you will have your lawyer respond with a subpoena for the content of all his communications with your WW.....as your 'harassment' was nothing but an attempt to find out why POSOM was interfering in your M and family life.

That will shut him up FAST.

No way he wants the content of those communications being public court records for everyone, including his BW and their bosses, to see.


----------



## hylton7

hope everything works out for you bro


----------



## eric1

Stop playing games. An adult female doesn't delete texts that are innocent. Period. Even if they were 'just jokes' there was still a part of her saying that it was wrong.

Her actions will speak volumes when you tell her the OBS is able to recover the texts.


----------



## Mizzbak

Ozzp

I am glad that your parents have your back on this. Showing them the evidence helped ... and the fact that your wife's mother is refusing to look at it is also very telling. It would be interesting to know what kind of story your wife has told her to explain a "few innocent texts".

Can I ask whether you think the affair is still ongoing? Is it possible that the calls that you saw on your home telephone were just her trying to reach her AP to warn him about what you had found? 
If this is the case, it doesn't change the facts of the situation - an affair that your wife is refusing to admit to. And you are completely justified in expecting the truth of what happened. It just might explain why your wife is trying so desperately to pretend nothing ever happened. If the OM ended the affair and has effectively discarded her, then maybe she is trying (in a completely destructive way) to make the whole thing just go away. Because then she can "save " what she thinks she does have and not face the consequences of her actions and choices. It might also explain why the OM is trying so hard to scare you off. He doesn't want his life (which is now "nicely back on track", thank you very much) messed up in any way.

The reason that I am suggesting this, is that it means that there is possibly no further evidence for you to find. 

Which sucks - if that is what you were hoping would facilitate you making a decision about what to do next.

(FWIW, I still think you should tell the OM's wife what you do know now. She deserves to know. Whether the affair is over or not.)


----------



## GusPolinski

By the way, @OZZP, you should be able to squash any talk of a harassment lawsuit by mentioning that you'd have your attorney subpoena your cellular service providers (his and yours) for _full transcripts_ of the text exchanges between OM and your wife.

You might also mention having anyone that witnessed any in-person encounters between your wife and OM called to testify as witnesses.

Should shut him up pretty quickly.


----------



## Chaparral

I would just send him a message asking if he wants to volunteer his social media, texts and emails, phone info etc. or if you just need to get your lawyer to subpoena his stuff.

That's the first thing the lawyers at dadsdivorce.com say they do.
They also tell the dad to stop using their social media to talk about the divorce since yours will be subpoenaed by her attorneys.


----------



## Primrose

OZZP said:


> My mom thought it would be good for me to call his cell number, so I did. I have left him 2 messages stating. My name, contact number. And that I. Wanted to speak to him about my wife, he has not returned my calls, but sent me text warning me that he would sue me if I continued to harass him or any member of his family. I made no threat to him in my message.


Let him try. It rarely follows through when you are speaking truth.

My ex-husband's OW tried to file harassment charges on me multiple times. The first was when I exposed the affair to all sides of the family. The second time was when a Cheaterville post had been made about her (truly was not me), and the third time was when I exposed the affair to her supervisor. 

The affair was not work-related, but I exposed simply because she is employed as a marriage counselor and I felt it was a breach of ethics. A marriage counselor in an active affair has no business counseling hurting couples, IMO. 

All three times I was phoned by her local police department to find out my side of the story. Every single time I told them what was going on, they laughed her away. I was told that, so long as I was only speaking truth, there was nothing she could do to me, and since I had proof of the affair (and she knew it), she never pursued after that.


----------



## OZZP

Herschel said:


> Where is the Samsung? Did she turn it in?


Traded it in when we got the iPhone


----------



## OZZP

Mizzbak said:


> Ozzp
> 
> I am glad that your parents have your back on this. Showing them the evidence helped ... and the fact that your wife's mother is refusing to look at it is also very telling. It would be interesting to know what kind of story your wife has told her to explain a "few innocent texts".
> 
> Can I ask whether you think the affair is still ongoing? Is it possible that the calls that you saw on your home telephone were just her trying to reach her AP to warn him about what you had found?
> If this is the case, it doesn't change the facts of the situation - an affair that your wife is refusing to admit to. And you are completely justified in expecting the truth of what happened. It just might explain why your wife is trying so desperately to pretend nothing ever happened. If the OM ended the affair and has effectively discarded her, then maybe she is trying (in a completely destructive way) to make the whole thing just go away. Because then she can "save " what she thinks she does have and not face the consequences of her actions and choices. It might also explain why the OM is trying so hard to scare you off. He doesn't want his life (which is now "nicely back on track", thank you very much) messed up in any way.
> 
> The reason that I am suggesting this, is that it means that there is possibly no further evidence for you to find.
> 
> Which sucks - if that is what you were hoping would facilitate you making a decision about what to do next.
> 
> (FWIW, I still think you should tell the OM's wife what you do know now. She deserves to know. Whether the affair is over or not.)



I am not sure how to answer the affair question. I cant confirm it was an affair just yet, but if not then she must want it.

My wife left this morning. She must have packed last night. She left me a letter stating that divorce talk and preparation is on hold until further notice. She signed it and dated it. She also wrote that I am emotionally abusive, paranoid and driving her to be with another man. She intends for me to see what life will be like without her and that she isn't coming home until I show her the respect she deserves and stop being abusive.

She left me with the kids bawling in their beds thinking that I made their mother leave. I slept in the basement last night on a couch and when I got upstairs, this is what I found. 

I meant to go to the library that her boyfriends wife works at, but that fell apart. My parents are here now, they want me to go to the library now while they stay with the kids, but I hate to leave with the kids this upset. But I really want to see his wife.

We were supposed to go to a party tonight with fireworks etc. It would have been fun for the kids, now they don't want to get out of bed.

I think she went to her parents. 

I can't believe this crap. She has left me in a hell of mess. I have to work Wed, am trying to arrange care for the kids. My mom is promising to cover any of that, but she works to so I don't know how that will work out. 

She also warned me about continuing to harass her boyfriend and wrote that I deserve to be sued if I keep at it. I have not harassed or threatened anyone.

I checked T-Mobile to to see if she was using that to communicate with him again, but she must have changed the password as I can't get in any more. 

I just cant believe she left. 

Does her signed letter about divorce take away some leverage from me? Should I wait to file? I just want to move past this. My mom is hell bent that I need to have the meanest pit bull lawyer around to prevent my wife from making that move. 

I'm trying to get an appointment to talk to a lawyer, but the one my mom wants me to get is closed today. 

My kids seem to have quieted down for now.


----------



## OZZP

Primrose said:


> Let him try. It rarely follows through when you are speaking truth.
> 
> My ex-husband's OW tried to file harassment charges on me multiple times. The first was when I exposed the affair to all sides of the family. The second time was when a Cheaterville post had been made about her (truly was not me), and the third time was when I exposed the affair to her supervisor.
> 
> The affair was not work-related, but I exposed simply because she is employed as a marriage counselor and I felt it was a breach of ethics. A marriage counselor in an active affair has no business counseling hurting couples, IMO.
> 
> All three times I was phoned by her local police department to find out my side of the story. Every single time I told them what was going on, they laughed her away. I was told that, so long as I was only speaking truth, there was nothing she could do to me, and since I had proof of the affair (and she knew it), she never pursued after that.



This. Is good news. Thank you!


----------



## Spicy

Wow....it's amazing how all of this is YOUR fault. She is quite the piece of work. Also amazing how suddenly you are an abusive husband...the nerve of cheaters to throw that around when there are so many people who truly are being abused!!!!

I beg of you, leave the kids with your parents and go talk to his wife, NOW.

I am so terribly sorry this is all happening to you and your family. We are here for you sweetheart.


----------



## anchorwatch

Do you think if she were innocent here she would run away or stand and prove it? 

She's following a common script of lies and threats meant to toss things into your path. This is done to keep her and OM in control of the narrative and in turn control over "you". Only you have control of your life, not her. That is unless you allow their BS to control your life. I don't think you'll allow that. 

Don't believe anything she says, only what she does. She lied. She hid their communications and relationship. When you called them on it, she ran. Those are the actions. They don't match up with the words. 

It's great that you have family and friends to support you and your children. You'll do better with them behind you. 

Good luck contacting his W, it's the stand up thing to do. 

BTW, you don't need her permission to file for divorce with the court. You don't even need a reason.


----------



## GusPolinski

OZZP said:


> I am not sure how to answer the affair question. I cant confirm it was an affair just yet, but if not then she must want it.
> 
> My wife left this morning. She must have packed last night. She left me a letter stating that divorce talk and preparation is on hold until further notice. She signed it and dated it. She also wrote that I am emotionally abusive, paranoid and driving her to be with another man. She intends for me to see what life will be like without her and that she isn't coming home until I show her the respect she deserves and stop being abusive.
> 
> She left me with the kids bawling in their beds thinking that I made their mother leave. I slept in the basement last night on a couch and when I got upstairs, this is what I found.
> 
> I meant to go to the library that her boyfriends wife works at, but that fell apart. My parents are here now, they want me to go to the library now while they stay with the kids, but I hate to leave with the kids this upset. But I really want to see his wife.
> 
> We were supposed to go to a party tonight with fireworks etc. It would have been fun for the kids, now they don't want to get out of bed.
> 
> I think she went to her parents.
> 
> I can't believe this crap. She has left me in a hell of mess. I have to work Wed, am trying to arrange care for the kids. My mom is promising to cover any of that, but she works to so I don't know how that will work out.
> 
> She also warned me about continuing to harass her boyfriend and wrote that I deserve to be sued if I keep at it. I have not harassed or threatened anyone.
> 
> I checked T-Mobile to to see if she was using that to communicate with him again, but she must have changed the password as I can't get in any more.
> 
> I just cant believe she left.
> 
> Does her signed letter about divorce take away some leverage from me? Should I wait to file? I just want to move past this. My mom is hell bent that I need to have the meanest pit bull lawyer around to prevent my wife from making that move.
> 
> I'm trying to get an appointment to talk to a lawyer, but the one my mom wants me to get is closed today.
> 
> My kids seem to have quieted down for now.


I'm with your mom.

Your WW's intimidation only works if you _allow_ it to work.

Whether her relationship with OM is platonic (it's not) or illicit (it is), there can be no reconciliation with someone who is so comfortable with deceit, and certainly not with someone with such a hostile, defiant attitude.

Let her know who's driving this bus -- YOU.

Talk to his wife. Tell her your suspicions. Urge her to investigate on her end. But give her nothing in terms of actual, "on paper" evidence without clearing it with your shark... er... *lawyer* first.


----------



## farsidejunky

At every step she is indicating that the wishes of her OM are more important than the wishes of her husband.

Nobody...NOBODY...defends "just a friend" over their husband to this degree. And you know it.

My suggestion?

Go nuclear.


----------



## Tobyboy

OZZP said:


> I am not sure how to answer the affair question. I cant confirm it was an affair just yet, but if not then she must want it.
> 
> My wife left this morning. She must have packed last night. She left me a letter stating that divorce talk and preparation is on hold until further notice. She signed it and dated it. *She also wrote that I am emotionally abusive, paranoid and driving her to be with another man*. She intends for me to see what life will be like without her and that she isn't coming home until I show her the respect she deserves and stop being abusive.
> 
> She left me with the kids bawling in their beds thinking that I made their mother leave. I slept in the basement last night on a couch and when I got upstairs, this is what I found.
> 
> I meant to go to the library that her boyfriends wife works at, but that fell apart. My parents are here now, they want me to go to the library now while they stay with the kids, but I hate to leave with the kids this upset. But I really want to see his wife.
> 
> We were supposed to go to a party tonight with fireworks etc. It would have been fun for the kids, now they don't want to get out of bed.
> 
> I think she went to her parents.
> 
> I can't believe this crap. She has left me in a hell of mess. I have to work Wed, am trying to arrange care for the kids. My mom is promising to cover any of that, but she works to so I don't know how that will work out.
> 
> She also warned me about continuing to harass her boyfriend and wrote that I deserve to be sued if I keep at it. I have not harassed or threatened anyone.
> 
> I checked T-Mobile to to see if she was using that to communicate with him again, but she must have changed the password as I can't get in any more.
> 
> I just cant believe she left.
> 
> Does her signed letter about divorce take away some leverage from me? Should I wait to file? I just want to move past this. My mom is hell bent that I need to have the meanest pit bull lawyer around to prevent my wife from making that move.
> 
> I'm trying to get an appointment to talk to a lawyer, but the one my mom wants me to get is closed today.
> 
> My kids seem to have quieted down for now.


There's your admission right there^^^^


----------



## hylton7

please don't allow her to screw you over even if she's the mother of your kids.


----------



## drifting on

So she left her kids to protect OM, I would think that reconciliation is something that shouldn't be mentioned in your thread, ever, and in your marriage, ever. File and let the wife go crazy, expose and let the wife go crazy, in court prove her lies, then let the wife go crazy. After divorce is final, walk away from your wife and let her go crazy. You couldn't really find much worse then one who walks out on her own kids. Your future is about to get much better, follow your mom on this, she's thinking clearly.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Get in contact with that lawyer (and a few others, so she can't use them) as soon as they open after the holiday(assuming you are in the US ,and that's why they were closed). Ask him specifically about abandonment, which it seems you would have a good case for . Do not say anything to your wife until you speak to the lawyer. NOTHING! Her actions are straight from the cheater's script and she is attempting to manipulate you. If you let her succeed at this (and it's all up to you) you will be truly screwed.


----------



## donny64

So, she leaves to teach you a lesson and until you can find it in you to respect her and treat her right. And you're pushing her toward another man, huh?

Only one way to deal with this one. Don't engage her in any conversation or arguments. Go quiet and cold as ice on her. Don't let her see you hurting. Get a lawyer, file, and have her served.

Implement the 180 now. And stick to it. 

She'll be back on her knees, mascara running, and blowing snot bubbles in short order. Especially after OMW is clued in and he goes quiet on your W so as to save his own azz. 

Time to shake up her world my man. She somehow thinks she's holding the cards right now, can screw around, blame you, and still dictate the terms. Time to dispell that little notion.


----------



## lucy999

Your mother's right. Lawyer up hard and fast. Sounds like you have fantastic parents. Take them up on every offer they afford you.


----------



## thedope

File for divorce ASAP. You freaked her out by discovering the affair. Likely OM is making up excuses to his wife painting you are crazy. If you approach OMs wife take the cell phone logs with you.


----------



## Mizzbak

OZZP, 

I am very sorry that this has happened - especially the way that it has. For your wife to just desert her children like this should make many see her differently. I agree that you need to see a lawyer as soon as possible. Your situation has changed. And you need to take control of it. You are lucky that you have your parents to support you right now.

It does seem that your wife is trying everything to prevent you from asking more questions. From the outside, it also seems as though she knows a lot about the OM's motivations and concerns (threats to sue you, reason why he did not return your call etc.) for someone who is not in contact with him. 

I think that you said earlier that your wife does not work? As she is apparently no longer prepared to carry out her childcare responsibilities, how is she planning on supporting herself? And paying for her cellphone bill? (Is she the legal account holder? Or could you, as the actual bill payer, request manual access to her call/messaging details?). Please confirm any action you may take in this regard with your lawyer first. 

I am going to echo advice already given on this thread - that you should be cold and deliberate in any further communications with your wife or actions that you may take towards the OM. Do not show anger, lose your temper or do/say something that could be construed as threatening towards either of them. (FWIW, I think that sharing the truth with the OM's wife about the extent of your wife and her husband's communications last year is not any of these things.) But it does seem that your wife is already trying to position things a certain way. Do not fall into the trap of giving her any ammunition. 

You should still try and go to the fireworks party if you can. Your wife should not be able to control whether you and your children do something enjoyable together. 
My thoughts are with you, Ozzp.


----------



## anchorwatch

@OZZP, 

It's not something anyone wants to think of, but you should keep a voice activated recorder on your person for any interaction with her or her surrogates. (protection from domestic violence accusations, admissions, abuse, etc) 

Best


----------



## TRy

OZZP said:


> I cant confirm it was an affair just yet, but if not then she must want it.


 If you look up the definition of an emotional affair (EA), you will see that she is clearly at least in an EA with this other man (OM). An EA is cheating, and many people understandably divorce over an EA. What really sucks about EA’s is that your spouse gave the OM the home court advantage that is supposed to be reserved exclusively for the spouse. The OM got to know everything about you and your marriage, along with all of you weaknesses, yet you were not suppose to know that the OM even existed in her life (not even his name). Waiting for more proof is exactly what the cheater wants you to do, because it is a fools errand. The sad truth is that a major study found that cheating spouses only admit to cheating in 7% of the cases, and that includes the rare 3% when they are caught in the act. The rest of the time cheaters will lie and take it to the grave. Besides in your heart you know that in the unlikely event that it has not already gone physical, “she must want it”. You have all that you need to act. 



OZZP said:


> My wife left this morning. She must have packed last night. She left me a letter stating that divorce talk and preparation is on hold until further notice. She signed it and dated it. She also wrote that I am emotionally abusive, paranoid and driving her to be with another man. She intends for me to see what life will be like without her and that she isn't coming home until I show her the respect she deserves and stop being abusive.


 Wow, so given the choice between you, and giving up her relationship with the OM, she has without hesitation clearly picked the OM. She does this without remorse, and without even making the smallest effort to try to save the marriage. 

You do not need to wait until you have 100% proof of the physical affair to be justified in taking action. Cheating is not the reason given for the majority of divorces. They divorce because they do not want to make someone a priority in their life that does not also make them a priority, or because their spouse deceives them such that they lose trust. You are not her priority; her actions show that the OM is. She also deceived you about her relationship with the OM and is thus not trustworthy. That alone would be reason enough for most people. Besides, she is giving you no choice. She is demanding that you either agree to look the other way and become a cuckold, or divorce. Many cuckolds do not want to be cuckolds, but become one when they decide to look the other way. I am guessing that this is not who you want to be.


----------



## OZZP

Spicy said:


> Wow....it's amazing how all of this is YOUR fault. She is quite the piece of work. Also amazing how suddenly you are an abusive husband...the nerve of cheaters to throw that around when there are so many people who truly are being abused!!!!
> 
> I beg of you, leave the kids with your parents and go talk to his wife, NOW.
> 
> I am so terribly sorry this is all happening to you and your family. We are here for you sweetheart.


Thanks for the kind words. Today has really sucked.

I did go to the library and his wife was there. She recognized my name and her eyes got all watery. She knew what was coming. she caught them texting and thought she put a stop to it. She didn't know they were calling each other as she can't see his work calls.

She did read the texts at the time and saw the pictures. I have been played for a complete fool. She sent him photos of underwear when she was shopping. he'd tell her which ones to get, then she would send him photos of herself in them. I never got any of those pictures, but I did get to pay for the bill! He sent her pictures of his erect Johnson and she commented on how impressive it was. She also sent photos of herself in her workout outfit in the progress of getting in shape. She said my wife did send. One topless photo that she remembered, but no complete nude pictures that she saw.

Apparently, they also talked about how great it would have been if they could have met before they were married and basically how noble they both are for staying with their marriages and families.

She says my wife was clearly the aggressor and that she actually called my wife to tell her that if she continued contacting her husband that she was going to tell me. I wish she would have just told me back then and not threatened my wife.

I was told there was no evidence that they were physically together, but clearly wanted to be. He was the one who broke from the texting and my wife took it badly and didn't want to stop. 

She was shocked that her husband would not take my call and sent me a text threatening to sue me. She said he always talks with such bravado she was surprised that he would avoid me. I showed her the text from her husband and my recent calls on my phone. She called her husband on her cell, he answered, she told him someone was with her who wanted to speak to him and gave me the phone. I said my name, he hung up. 

She called my wife a bunch of fitting names. She also said my wife can't really believe that I am abusive and paranoid as no mother would leave their children in that situation. She said that my wife would have taken the kids with her to protect them if she really believed I was that unstable.

She Told me she thinks she is done with her husband as well. 

I asked her if she still had copies of their texts. She said she thinks she does and would give me a copy. Hopefully that comes through. I have her cell and she has mine. We agreed to provide updates to each other.

The meeting went about as well and as bad as it could have I suppose.

I just still can't get over that she left us or that this crap is going on.

If there was nothing physical going on, then maybe we could have worked through it if sh would have been honest. But not now, only one way forward.


----------



## OZZP

Tobyboy said:


> There's your admission right there^^^^


I can't figure out what you are trying to tell me?


----------



## OZZP

Rubix Cubed said:


> Get in contact with that lawyer (and a few others, so she can't use them) as soon as they open after the holiday(assuming you are in the US ,and that's why they were closed). Ask him specifically about abandonment, which it seems you would have a good case for . Do not say anything to your wife until you speak to the lawyer. NOTHING! Her actions are straight from the cheater's script and she is attempting to manipulate you. If you let her succeed at this (and it's all up to you) you will be truly screwed.


We are in the US.


----------



## OZZP

donny64 said:


> So, she leaves to teach you a lesson and until you can find it in you to respect her and treat her right. And you're pushing her toward another man, huh?
> 
> Only one way to deal with this one. Don't engage her in any conversation or arguments. Go quiet and cold as ice on her. Don't let her see you hurting. Get a lawyer, file, and have her served.
> 
> Implement the 180 now. And stick to it.
> 
> She'll be back on her knees, mascara running, and blowing snot bubbles in short order. Especially after OMW is clued in and he goes quiet on your W so as to save his own azz.
> 
> Time to shake up her world my man. She somehow thinks she's holding the cards right now, can screw around, blame you, and still dictate the terms. Time to dispell that little notion.



I hate to admit that part of me would like to see her come back asking for another chance. I would say no, but then it would at least be my decision. I'm not sure why that matters, but it just feels like she wins all the way around while I get hosed.


----------



## OZZP

Mizzbak said:


> OZZP,
> 
> I am very sorry that this has happened - especially the way that it has. For your wife to just desert her children like this should make many see her differently. I agree that you need to see a lawyer as soon as possible. Your situation has changed. And you need to take control of it. You are lucky that you have your parents to support you right now.
> 
> It does seem that your wife is trying everything to prevent you from asking more questions. From the outside, it also seems as though she knows a lot about the OM's motivations and concerns (threats to sue you, reason why he did not return your call etc.) for someone who is not in contact with him.
> 
> I think that you said earlier that your wife does not work? As she is apparently no longer prepared to carry out her childcare responsibilities, how is she planning on supporting herself? And paying for her cellphone bill? (Is she the legal account holder? Or could you, as the actual bill payer, request manual access to her call/messaging details?). Please confirm any action you may take in this regard with your lawyer first.
> 
> I am going to echo advice already given on this thread - that you should be cold and deliberate in any further communications with your wife or actions that you may take towards the OM. Do not show anger, lose your temper or do/say something that could be construed as threatening towards either of them. (FWIW, I think that sharing the truth with the OM's wife about the extent of your wife and her husband's communications last year is not any of these things.) But it does seem that your wife is already trying to position things a certain way. Do not fall into the trap of giving her any ammunition.
> 
> You should still try and go to the fireworks party if you can. Your wife should not be able to control whether you and your children do something enjoyable together.
> My thoughts are with you, Ozzp.


She has not worked since our youngest was born. However, she could get a job fairly easily I believe. She worked in real estate and did fairly well at it. She still has contacts with the company she used to work for and they parted on good terms.

She didn't say how she planned to pay for anything, but the checkbook is gone and she didn't leave her ATM or credit cards behind so I am guessing that plans to have me keep paying.

My parents are trying to get the kids to go to the party tonight, we already missed the cookout part, but their is still stuff they would like. My dad got pizza and ice cream for dinner, but the kids barely ate. I'm hoping we can get them out. I also can't help but wonder what my wife is doing. I wish I could make that part stop.


----------



## OZZP

anchorwatch said:


> @OZZP,
> 
> It's not something anyone wants to think of, but you should keep a voice activated recorder on your person for any interaction with her or her surrogates. (protection from domestic violence accusations, admissions, abuse, etc)
> 
> Best


I had not really thought about this. I guess I need to get one.


----------



## Marc878

OZZP said:


> I am not sure how to answer the affair question. I cant confirm it was an affair just yet, but if not then she must want it.
> 
> My wife left this morning. She must have packed last night. She left me a letter stating that divorce talk and preparation is on hold until further notice. She signed it and dated it. She also wrote that I am emotionally abusive, paranoid and driving her to be with another man. She intends for me to see what life will be like without her and that she isn't coming home until I show her the respect she deserves and stop being abusive.
> 
> Cheater script. Very typical
> 
> She left me with the kids bawling in their beds thinking that I made their mother leave. I slept in the basement last night on a couch and when I got upstairs, this is what I found.
> 
> Tell the truth to your kids don't lie to them
> 
> I meant to go to the library that her boyfriends wife works at, but that fell apart. My parents are here now, they want me to go to the library now while they stay with the kids, but I hate to leave with the kids this upset. But I really want to see his wife.
> 
> We were supposed to go to a party tonight with fireworks etc. It would have been fun for the kids, now they don't want to get out of bed.
> 
> I think she went to her parents.
> 
> I can't believe this crap. She has left me in a hell of mess. I have to work Wed, am trying to arrange care for the kids. My mom is promising to cover any of that, but she works to so I don't know how that will work out.
> 
> She also warned me about continuing to harass her boyfriend and wrote that I deserve to be sued if I keep at it. I have not harassed or threatened anyone.
> 
> Her BF is worth more than you and the kids to her. Affairs trump all
> 
> I checked T-Mobile to to see if she was using that to communicate with him again, but she must have changed the password as I can't get in any more.
> 
> I just cant believe she left.
> 
> Does her signed letter about divorce take away some leverage from me? Should I wait to file? I just want to move past this. My mom is hell bent that I need to have the meanest pit bull lawyer around to prevent my wife from making that move.
> 
> File now. Protect yourself and your kids
> 
> I'm trying to get an appointment to talk to a lawyer, but the one my mom wants me to get is closed today.
> 
> My kids seem to have quieted down for now.


*She's told you and shown you who she is you'd be wise to believe her
*


----------



## OZZP

I've been trying to explain gas lighting to my parents.

That. Is. Where she is basically trying to make me think I'm crazy and have problem? Is that correct?


----------



## anchorwatch

OZZP said:


> I've been trying to explain gas lighting to my parents.
> 
> That. Is. Where she is basically trying to make me think I'm crazy and have problem? Is that correct?


Yes, that's correct... Gaslighting 

Urban Dictionary: Gaslighting


----------



## OZZP

A question about cheater script. Is there something posted on this topic as well? Is my wife's behavior that routine/frequently occurring? My parents can only come up with 2 other women who left their kids that they know of and one them was someone they heard of but didn't really know.


----------



## Tobyboy

Are you sure there's not another OM? Your wife abruptly leaving without her kids is beyond comprehension. Unless.....she knew this day would come and had a backup plan just incase. How can you find out? The OBS can grill her husband about what they talked about when your wife would call him at his workplace. He'll rat-out your wife to save his own ass.....guaranteed!!


----------



## anchorwatch

Gaslighting, blameshifting, deflecting, rewriting marital history, running away from their problems, refusal to accept responsibility, loose boundaries and immaturity are some of the most common behaviors exhibited by wayward spouses. 

Don't be fooled, she's only run off to her parents to gain a bit of time to regroup and consider her next move. She'll be back for sure. It's evident she doesn't respect you, she'll try to gain control over the situation and you again. She may come right at you or try to deceive you. Be prepared.


----------



## TRy

OZZP said:


> A question about cheater script. Is there something posted on this topic as well? Is my wife's behavior that routine/frequently occurring? My parents can only come up with 2 other women who left their kids that they know of and one them was someone they heard of but didn't really know.


 The cheater’s script is basically, that they will try to falsely blame shift their cheating as being cause by you. They will re-invent history and gas light you to do this. Remember when she left how she claimed that you were “emotionally abusive, paranoid and driving her to be with another man”? Well the other man’s (OM) wife has now confirmed that this is not true, since she can place the cheating as taking place before you even knew about it, and before the false “emotionally abusive, paranoid and driving her to be with another man” bull. The gas lighting is that she says that you are “paranoid”, which you cannot be if it is true, and the reinventing of history has your reaction to learning about her cheating as being the cause of her cheating, which is out of order and cannot be true. The cheaters script will also have her looking to over dramatize any imperfections that you may have as a human, while ignoring all of her own. Although your wife as the cheater has lost her moral compass, she will expect you to follow and allow her to be the sole judge of right and wrong, in a world where there is no logic and facts do not matter. Do not play the cheater’s scripted game. It is a game designed by the your wife and her affair partner for you to lose. 

Go silent on your wife. If she forces a conversation on you, simple say that you spoke to her lover’s wife, and that she gave you facts that confirmed that your wife’s relationship with the other man (OM) was definitely romantic. Tell her that now that you know that her whole the OM was just a platonic friend thing was total bull, you have nothing more to say to her right now as you need to think. Do not talk divorce or tip your hand in any way. Then walk away. Without warning, file for divorce, and while claiming abandonment, ask for 100% custody of your children. You must move quickly before she tries to move back. File ASAP claiming abandonment even if you must fix errors in the filing later by re-filing. Take some time off work if you can, so that you can spend time with your children. You can always change your mind about divorce, but you will not have another chance at taking the initiative.


----------



## MattMatt

@OZZP protect your bank accounts ASAP.

And see a lawyer, if only to find out what your options are.

In fact have initial consultations with all the best divorce lawyers in town, as they means they can't work for your wife. 

Fight fire with fire. Fight for your children.


----------



## Marc878

It's unusual for a mother to leave her children but it does happen


----------



## honcho

At this point you really have to obtain legal counsel and file for divorce asap. She has left the kids behind, claimed your being abusive etc etc. You've got the om threatening you with harassment claims and although he wouldn't get far legally it does play into your wife's favor if she runs off and files.

You have the upper hand if you file claiming she abandoned the kids, adultery etc. If she files she can claim she had to leave for her own "safety", some fake crocodile tears about how much she hated leaving the kids but you left her no choice and before you know it she can get custody, at least temporarily and that also means cs payments and possibly alimony. 

You need to take an offensive and protect yourself and kids. You controlling the divorce filing is way better than playing catch up if she does it and blindside you. You need to have your brain override your heart. Time is not your friend in situations like yours.


----------



## Tobyboy

Marc878 said:


> It's unusual for a mother to leave her children but it does happen


Your right. But usually, they have somewhere to go.......and it not their parents house!!!

OP needs to confirm where his WW is at so he knows how to protect his children. I would start with online bank statements. See where she's making purchases at.


----------



## jlg07

One other quick note: DOCUMENT everything -- her leaving, what you are doing for the kids, etc.. Try to make sure ALL/ANY of your conversations with her are via text and/or email. This should help down the line for child support/custody issues. Keep a journal of all of this -- dates/times/duration, etc.

VERY sorry you are going through this.....


----------



## Spicy

You have learned the truth.
Now it is YOUR Independence Day OZ....


----------



## Mizzbak

OZZP said:


> Thanks for the kind words. Today has really sucked.
> 
> I did go to the library and his wife was there. She recognized my name and her eyes got all watery. She knew what was coming. she caught them texting and thought she put a stop to it. She didn't know they were calling each other as she can't see his work calls.
> 
> Now you know for certain. It does suck. I agree. And meeting the other spouse, who was also damaged by your wife and her AP's behaviour, is another huge emotional injury for you to have faced today. Take strength from the fact that you were right. Right to doubt your wife's word. Right to push harder for the truth. Do not doubt your intuition when it comes to your wife. Also take strength from the fact that you are not alone. You have your parents, and right now you are the one who is with your kids, helping them through this difficult time. And you have your self-respect. Your wife cannot have any self-respect. No woman who chooses to abandon her family - physically and morally - could have. And remember that these feelings will pass. And your wife will never have this type of power in your life again.
> 
> ...
> 
> I was told there was no evidence that they were physically together, but clearly wanted to be. He was the one who broke from the texting and my wife took it badly and didn't want to stop.
> 
> She was shocked that her husband would not take my call and sent me a text threatening to sue me. She said he always talks with such bravado she was surprised that he would avoid me. I showed her the text from her husband and my recent calls on my phone. She called her husband on her cell, he answered, she told him someone was with her who wanted to speak to him and gave me the phone. I said my name, he hung up.
> 
> She called my wife a bunch of fitting names.
> 
> He broke from the texting because his wife found out. The OM's wife desperately wants to believe that the affair is your wife's fault. In my opinion, an affair, unless there was coercion of some kind, is always 50/50. But that is a realisation that she must come to herself. And I agree that she should have told you. Everything. Back then. What you did by speaking to her now was a good thing. Never, ever doubt that.
> 
> She also said my wife can't really believe that I am abusive and paranoid as no mother would leave their children in that situation. She said that my wife would have taken the kids with her to protect them if she really believed I was that unstable.
> 
> This is a very good point.
> 
> She Told me she thinks she is done with her husband as well.
> 
> I asked her if she still had copies of their texts. She said she thinks she does and would give me a copy. Hopefully that comes through. I have her cell and she has mine. We agreed to provide updates to each other...
> 
> This can be useful, but remember that she needs to walk her own journey, just as you do yours.
> 
> Right now you need to start looking after yourself. I understand that not everyone gets support from individual counseling, but perhaps you might think about it? Having an objective person to bounce things off can be helpful. Your parents are 110% on your side - and that is a good thing. It does mean, however, that they are less likely to be able to help you to be objective and calm about how you deal with your wife in the coming weeks.
> 
> How old are your kids?


----------



## Youngwife1000

MattMatt said:


> Wow! The same man?
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get to meet Jeremy Kyle and Graham?




No lol, he came to our house, no way would I go on that show!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OZZP

Tobyboy said:


> Your right. But usually, they have somewhere to go.......and it not their parents house!!!
> 
> OP needs to confirm where his WW is at so he knows how to protect his children. I would start with online bank statements. See where she's making purchases at.


She texted our daughter last night that she is at her parents house. I am assuming that she told the truth, but can't be certain and her mother would definitely cover for her.


----------



## OZZP

Tobyboy said:


> Are you sure there's not another OM? Your wife abruptly leaving without her kids is beyond comprehension. Unless.....she knew this day would come and had a backup plan just incase. How can you find out? The OBS can grill her husband about what they talked about when your wife would call him at his workplace. He'll rat-out your wife to save his own ass.....guaranteed!!


I think you are asking if she has 2 boyfriends? Honestly, I can't imagine that but I also never thought she would leave me and the kids. As for her boyfriend that I do know about, well he should be getting the third degree at home from his wife. I hope to hear from her again. I would still like copies of their texts.


----------



## OZZP

My kids are 13, 10 and 5. We have 2 Girls and a boy. Our oldest has a cell phone and her mom did text her last night. 

Something in one of your previous posts has been rattling around in my head all night. I didn't tell my wife that her boyfriend texted me and threatened to sue me. Therefore, he must have told her that or they come up with that response together. She is working against me to support him.

Mizzbak, not sure what happened I hit the quote button. This was an answer to your last question.


----------



## OZZP

We did not go to the party last night. I did get the kids out in the yard and we were able to see some fireworks that were set off in the neighborhood we live in. We also built a small fire and let the kids roast some marshmallows. It was a late evening for them and so far they are still asleep this morning.

I plan to meet with a lawyer and move forward as quickly as I can. I do think it is in my best interest to move quickly and I also need to figure what to do with our finances as I really dont want that spent on her boyfriend!

Starting to feel a little better today, maybe the meds are starting to kick in.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

It is time for you to "go dark". She is trying to paint you as unhinged. A simple text stating all future communication from that point is through your lawyer. Secondly, change the locks and place all her things on the front yard and text her to get them before goodwill is called.
Your stbxw is a special kind of crazy so be on guard.


----------



## GusPolinski

Have you logged into your bank's online portal yet? You want to make sure she's not started moving money around or, even worse, changed the password.

If she's done either, document it.

Also be prepared to ask your bank for the IP addresses associated with any such activity.


----------



## lucy999

I know you are going to see a lawyer ASAP. I want to stress that one more time. And watch your money. You don't want to wake up tomorrow and have the accounts emptied.


----------



## drifting on

Ozzp 

Here is what you can now assume has happened as fact. 
1) physical affair
2) wife will never admit truth
3) wife is shallow as she left kids
4) wife knows you saw his wife
5) still in affair

It doesn't take much to put the above together, rather basic actually. But you have more power now then ever before. Now you can tell your wife to never come home. That she was contacted by OM's wife to stay out of her marriage. That she underwear shopped texting OM what he wanted her to wear. Then say OM has admitted physical affair to his wife. 

Now it's question time if you wish to be a real a--hole.
1) you barely knew who he was, yet his called you about your affair, why not tell me?
2) why make me out to be crazy when you texted hundreds of times to someone you barely knew?
3) why would you leave your kids with and unstable person that you were so worried you called my own mother?
4) what woman abandons her kids? 
5) what woman puts her kids in harms way?
6) what woman leaves her kids with an allegedly unstable person over sex?
7) what woman would not put her kids before her own agenda?
8) what are you going to say when this all goes public?
9) what are your girlfriends husbands going to say to their wives about them covering for your cheater ass?
10) how many friends do you think will want to be around you once they know the true you?
11) want to take a polygraph about buying underwear OM told you to buy?
12) do you recognize how low you have sunk as a human being?
13) when you look in the mirror do you see a POS?

What's saddest wife, is that I have flushed better looking **** down a toilet then you on your best day. Good riddance.


----------



## anchorwatch

Who is responsible for the day to day finances in your household?


----------



## drifting on

Also Ozzp, my questions in my last post you aren't really wanting to hear the answers, it's far too late for that. The point you are driving home, that she won't see by the way, are how a court would view her. If she answers any of the questions you can give this to your lawyer to use against her in your divorce proceedings. I had a person I know do this, and when it came to court she was caught in many lies. Her lawyer was pissed as he couldn't show at any time that his client was being truthful. It showed the deception she was, and further was willing to take to get what she wanted. In the end, this person got full custody of the kids, the house, and his ex wife paying child support.

So you don't care about the answers, but it's nice to use those answers when everything changes in court. Your lawyer and hers will discuss the route of divorce, imagine having these answers to give to her lawyer so you get the best deal possible. Think down the road, not just the immediate future. And your thirteen year old is more then old enough to know that mom has a new boyfriend. 

Also expose all this to the husbands of who she went out with, give her no place to turn for support. Put your wife and her mom on an island and let them have their grief.


----------



## farsidejunky

OZZP said:


> My kids are 13, 10 and 5. We have 2 Girls and a boy. Our oldest has a cell phone and her mom did text her last night.
> 
> Something in one of your previous posts has been rattling around in my head all night. I didn't tell my wife that her boyfriend texted me and threatened to sue me. Therefore, he must have told her that or they come up with that response together. She is working against me to support him.
> 
> Mizzbak, not sure what happened I hit the quote button. This was an answer to your last question.


Nice observation, @OZZP.


----------



## drifting on

OZZP said:


> I am not sure how to answer the affair question. I cant confirm it was an affair just yet, but if not then she must want it.
> 
> My wife left this morning. She must have packed last night. She left me a letter stating that divorce talk and preparation is on hold until further notice. She signed it and dated it. She also wrote that I am emotionally abusive, paranoid and driving her to be with another man. She intends for me to see what life will be like without her and that she isn't coming home until I show her the respect she deserves and stop being abusive.
> 
> She left me with the kids bawling in their beds thinking that I made their mother leave. I slept in the basement last night on a couch and when I got upstairs, this is what I found.
> 
> I meant to go to the library that her boyfriends wife works at, but that fell apart. My parents are here now, they want me to go to the library now while they stay with the kids, but I hate to leave with the kids this upset. But I really want to see his wife.
> 
> We were supposed to go to a party tonight with fireworks etc. It would have been fun for the kids, now they don't want to get out of bed.
> 
> I think she went to her parents.
> 
> I can't believe this crap. She has left me in a hell of mess. I have to work Wed, am trying to arrange care for the kids. My mom is promising to cover any of that, but she works to so I don't know how that will work out.
> 
> She also warned me about continuing to harass her boyfriend and wrote that I deserve to be sued if I keep at it. I have not harassed or threatened anyone.
> 
> I checked T-Mobile to to see if she was using that to communicate with him again, but she must have changed the password as I can't get in any more.
> 
> I just cant believe she left.
> 
> Does her signed letter about divorce take away some leverage from me? Should I wait to file? I just want to move past this. My mom is hell bent that I need to have the meanest pit bull lawyer around to prevent my wife from making that move.
> 
> I'm trying to get an appointment to talk to a lawyer, but the one my mom wants me to get is closed today.
> 
> My kids seem to have quieted down for now.




One last thing, text her telling her how happy and stress free the homestead has become as your final reply to her. I guarantee your phone will blow up about how cruel you are, but assure your wife it's nice to feel love filling your home. Something that wasn't possible while she loves "that could be his name"!!


----------



## harrybrown

go see your attorney. file for D.

Cancel your credit cards. 


open a new bank account. for you. 
put half the money into the new account. and do not deposit into the old account.


----------



## TRy

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> It is time for you to "go dark". She is trying to paint you as unhinged.


 Good advice. Go dark so as not to tip your hand.



Lonely husband 42301 said:


> A simple text stating all future communication from that point is through your lawyer.


 Do not tell her to only communicate through your lawyer as that would be tipping your hand, and make you look unreasonable since you have children that she has a right to communicate with. Instead tell her to only communicate with you about the children.



Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Secondly, change the locks and place all her things on the front yard and text her to get them before goodwill is called.


As your lawyer will tell you, do not change the locks. This will destroy your abandonment case, make you look bad to the court, and you will in the end be told by the court to give her a key.


----------



## MattMatt

She has abandoned the family home.

Change the locks. Of course, her copy of the keys will be waiting for her when -if!- she returns home.


----------



## TX-SC

Document EVERYTHING and keep a VAR on you when you two interact. If it were me, I would probably do the following:

1) Meet with several attorneys in your area then pick the best one. 

2) Meet the OMW once again to obtain solid proof that their affair includes pictures. Have her write you a letter indicating that your contact with her is welcomed and not harassing in any way. 

3) Document that they continue to be in contact (phone records) 

4) Do not contact the OM again. Anything you need from that side will come through his wife anyway. 

5) Notify your wife that if she spreads rumors that you are crazy or in any way indicates to friends and family that you are harassing her or anyone else, or that you are unhinged, you will file charges against her for defamation of character. 

6) Notify her through text that all future communications will need to be through e-mail and then tell her which account to use. Heck, make a new email account named [email protected] or something. Let her know that you only wish to discuss matters related to your children and the divorce. 

7) Go dark on her unless she uses the email you set up.


----------



## Dyokemm

Has your WW said anything to you yet now that you talked to his BW?

The first person POS called after he hung up on you was your WW.....to let her know that all her gaslighting and deception was now blown.

OBS knew even MORE than you did.....both cheaters knew this, and the real terror your WW had of you talking to OBS was that YOU were going to find out more of what has been going on.

EXPOSE everything you learned from OBS to both your families and all friends ASAP......

Since she left, I am sure she has been on a massive gaslighting and marital rewriting campaign to all of these people she could get ahold of.....

Wreck that right now.....

A simple exposure informing all that you have spoken to OBS and confirmed the A and that it was even more involved than you had initially discovered because OBS had even more proof.

If your WW hasn't talked to you yet, its because she now knows the cat is out of the bag with you.....and has no clue what to do because she knows her lies can be exposed by you at will.


----------



## Spicy

TX-SC said:


> Document EVERYTHING and keep a VAR on you when you two interact. If it were me, I would probably do the following:
> 
> 1) Meet with several attorneys in your area then pick the best one.
> 
> 2) Meet the OMW once again to obtain solid proof that their affair includes pictures. Have her write you a letter indicating that your contact with her is welcomed and not harassing in any way.
> 
> 3) Document that they continue to be in contact (phone records)
> 
> 4) Do not contact the OM again. Anything you need from that side will come through his wife anyway.
> 
> 5) Notify your wife that if she spreads rumors that you are crazy or in any way indicates to friends and family that you are harassing her or anyone else, or that you are unhinged, you will file charges against her for defamation of character.
> 
> 6) Notify her through text that all future communications will need to be through e-mail and then tell her which account to use. Heck, make a new email account named [email protected] or something. Let her know that you only wish to discuss matters related to your children and the divorce.
> 
> 7) Go dark on her unless she uses the email you set up.


Exceptional post as usual my friend.


----------



## eric1

Yes, it's time to expose. It will help disinfect the situation, it will put you on control of the narrative and it'll help quell that gnawing at your soul carrying this secret


----------



## Spicy

Oz honey you have been on my mind a lot. How did your day go today? How are your kids?

One of the things I was thinking about is what a waste this has been. She could have just been honest way earlier...I mean, she maybe hasn't even gotten the bone...and now she has pissed away her life and family, for what? A texting crush!? 

I bet had she been honest you might have been able to forgive her. Instead, here we sit with this massive disaster.


----------



## Bananapeel

One of the big reasons to actually file for divorce ASAP is it puts a legal time point in where your assets are no longer shared. This way, if she runs up a huge credit card bill after you file you can claim that it is solely hers and you aren't responsible for it. Follow the other advice given regarding closing bank accounts/credit cards and opening new ones in just your name.


----------



## drifting on

Bananapeel said:


> One of the big reasons to actually file for divorce ASAP is it puts a legal time point in where your assets are no longer shared. This way, if she runs up a huge credit card bill after you file you can claim that it is solely hers and you aren't responsible for it. Follow the other advice given regarding closing bank accounts/credit cards and opening new ones in just your name.




I can't like this post twice, but OP you need to read it twice then act on it!!


----------



## Mizzbak

Ozzp, I hope that your lawyer appointments are going as well as they can. As is evident, many of us are thinking of you.


----------



## OZZP

Not much to report. I have settled on a lawyer. It is the one my mom heard good things about. We will be moving forward as quickly as the process will allow and will be following his advice on the process. 

I am starting to feel a little better. I don't feel good, but not as completely awful as I did. I'm trying to eat as well as I can and get a little excercise as time permits. My parents are helping with child care. 

My wife is still not home. She is staying at her parents house as best as I can tell. I still cannot access the cell phone account online anymore. 

She wants me to bring the kids too spend time with her tomorrow morning. I'm supposed to pick them back up before lunch? WTF, she can't even have lunch with kids?

This will be the first they have seen her since she left, but she is texting the oldest routinely.

I would like custody of the kids, am hoping that works out...

I think she is really waiting for me to apologize. Honestly, if I could figure out what I did to deserve this and if I thought it was salvageable I would consider that, but it is not. So she'll have to keep waiting.

I still do not have copies of the texts. I have not heard back from her boyfriend or his wife either.

I am considering sending a reminder text to her boyfriends wife about getting a printed copy of what she has.

I did get a VAR, Although I have had no use for it yet. 

I saw a question about a second boyfriend. I don't think so. She seems awfully committed to the one I found out about.

I have been honest with the neighbors and friends who have asked. Plenty of stunned and maybe awkward responses came from them. No one has told me they knew anything about this before hand. I find it very hard to believe that her ex-friend knew and no one else did, but I guess that really doesn't matter now.


----------



## OZZP

One other thought, I can't see why anyone would leave their spouse, home and children for a texting friend. So I am proceeding with the mindset that it was a physical affair as well even though I have no proof of that.


----------



## Dyokemm

Sorry you are having to deal with this crap from her right now....

She is waiting on YOU to apologize?

lmao....for what?

Catching her?

Is she aware that you have talked to OBS and thanks to that are also aware of the pics, text contents, and various other sordid details?

Or is she still sitting there thinking all her lies are intact....unaware that OBS has clued you in?


----------



## GusPolinski

Have you been able to get a look at the text exchanges between your wife and daughter?

And to Hell with bringing the kids to her -- she knows where they are, let her come to the house to see them.

"Bring them to me and I'll have them back by lunch" ...?

**** that. Sounds sketchy as **** -- almost like she plans on bolting with the kids.


----------



## GusPolinski

OZZP said:


> One other thought, I can't see why anyone would leave their spouse, home and children for a texting friend. So I am proceeding with the mindset that it was a physical affair as well even though I have no proof of that.


Smart man.


----------



## OZZP

Dyokemm said:


> Sorry you are having to deal with this crap from her right now....
> 
> She is waiting on YOU to apologize?
> 
> lmao....for what?
> 
> Catching her?
> 
> Is she aware that you have talked to OBS and thanks to that are also aware of the pics, text contents, and various other sordid details?
> 
> Or is she still sitting there thinking all her lies are intact....unaware that OBS has clued you in?


She knows I spoke with his wife. She told my daughter in a text that I went to meet some woman at the library. She didn't accuse me of doing anything wrong but kind of implied it.


----------



## OZZP

GusPolinski said:


> Have you been able to get a look at the text exchanges between your wife and daughter?
> 
> And to Hell with bringing the kids to her -- she knows where they are, let her come to the house to see them.
> 
> "Bring them to me and I'll have them back by lunch" ...?
> 
> **** that. Sounds sketchy as **** -- almost like she plans on bolting with the kids.


My daughter shows me the texts with her mom. I have not figured out what specifically to say to the kids yet. But our oldest has picked up on what is happening and knows most of everything. I have answered her questions honestly when she has asked. She has also asked her mom, and her mom has lied to her, not answered the question asked, or minimized the hell out of it. 

That is a tough spot to be in for a kid.

I have been keeping an eye on our bank account like you suggested, nothing adverse there. I do not believe she will bolt with the kids but really had not thought about that one. The kids are not packing any of their stuff.


----------



## Dyokemm

OZZP said:


> She knows I spoke with his wife. She told my daughter in a text that I went to meet some woman at the library. She didn't accuse me of doing anything wrong but kind of implied it.


OK....but she is still avoiding the elephant in the room....

She must know then that her lies are all exposed to you now.....after all, she KNEW OBS had seen the pics and text content.

She hasn't mentioned anything to you about the truth you now know?.......and that you are aware her story is B*LL****.


----------



## OZZP

Dyokemm said:


> OK....but she is still avoiding the elephant in the room....
> 
> She must know then that her lies are all exposed to you now.....after all, she KNEW OBS had seen the pics and text content.
> 
> She hasn't mentioned anything to you about the truth you now know?.......and that you are aware her story is B*LL****.


No, she has not.


----------



## Dyokemm

I mentioned in an earlier text that your WW was probably clueless about what to do.....she truly is stuck between a rock and a hard place now.

She went out and started a gaslighting, drama campaign against you with friends and family.....betting that all the details would stay hidden.....because she didn't think you would find OBS or actually go meet her.

NOW....she's in a real pickle.......because she knows you can expose all her dirty laundry.....and then she is exposed to everyone not only as a cheating traitor to you, but also as a lying drama queen to everyone else including her own parents.

If I had to bet money right now.....she is still contacting POSOM and waiting on him...

Because I would bet that right now he is trying to run a gaslighting, minimizing, and 'sweetness' campaign on OBS to NOT give you the proof.....probably trying to guilt her that it would be 'destroying another family' as well.

In other words.....POSOM is straining every nerve to protect your WW....

And your WW is in a holding pattern waiting to see if POSOM can convince his BW to not give you the proof....so her lies and gaslighting can stay hidden to friends and family.

Get a hold of OBS and get that evidence ASAP if you can.


----------



## Spicy

Thanks for letting us know. I'm glad you found a lawyer you are happy with, are feeling a tad better and your parents are helping with the kids. All those are very good things.

Waiting for you to apologize...this woman is quite a piece of work. Just...wow. Time for her to enter politics.


----------



## TAMAT

OZZP,

Your WW sounds like a proud woman who has a hard time admitting to faults or accepting blame, you might have a years or decades long process to get the truth or some % of it out of her. 

Such women it seems often fall into affairs with professional serial cheating OM who view it as a challenge to take down what is mostly unobtainable. The OM also knows that such women are the least likely to ever confess. 

She might never see the OM for who he is, and could maintain a good opinion of him for some time, even now 20+ almost 30 years latter my W has a neutral or positive opinion of OM-1.

Tamat


----------



## OZZP

I have copies of the text messages. I reached out to her boyfriends wife yesterday after dropping the kids off. She had already put copies on a flash drive for me. I picked it up and spent hours going through it all yesterday. There is a nude photo of my wife to him. She is in the bathroom and has taken a photo of her self from behind in the mirror. The underwear photos are there as well. Looks like his wife gave a pretty good description of events to me except that I cannot say that my wife was the aggressor. They both wanted their "friendship". His wife is concerned that my wife will be putting on a bigger push to get her husband now. Seems a little confusing since she seemed to be done with her husband a few days ago. Maybe she changed her mind? I did not get into that with her as it is her business. 

When i dropped the kids off yesterday. My wife's mom answered the door she did not even acknowledge me and shut the door on meas soon as she could get the kids inside.

When I picked up the kids, my wife jumped my case. My oldest told her I had spoken with a lawyer. She is accusing me of ruining our marriage with my delusions and cave man mentality. I told her she was the one who walked out. She says she didn't walk out, she just needed some time for herself and was visiting her parents. then she accused me of not wanting her to have a relationship with her parents. She also said this was the same as when i went fishing with my dad, only she wasn't spending as much money. I did do a 3 day fishing trip with my dad a few years back. 

I took the kids and left. 

I texted her this morning and let her know that her boyfriends wife gave me copies of her text messages and photos with her "special friend" and that I now know she is a complete liar. She has not responded. Im not sure if she is waiting to respond untli after she can speak to her boyfriend or if she is just going to ignore me, but at least she knows that I have the messages.


----------



## drifting on

When your wife does respond, just tell her that you have given copies of all evidence to your lawyer. It will all be filed under adultery as the grounds for divorce as well as listing OM. This means that once your divorce is final, it all becomes public record. At that point in time, if she is not amicable in the divorce and admit to your cheating, you will give copies of said divorce to those that she lied to. You will do this to strictly clear your name, not an attempt at coercion.


----------



## OZZP

drifting on said:


> When your wife does respond, just tell her that you have given copies of all evidence to your lawyer. It will all be filed under adultery as the grounds for divorce as well as listing OM. This means that once your divorce is final, it all becomes public record. At that point in time, if she is not amicable in the divorce and admit to your cheating, you will give copies of said divorce to those that she lied to. You will do this to strictly clear your name, not an attempt at coercion.


I like this approach! Thanks


----------



## Tobyboy

Sounds like your wife has spoken with a lawyer also when she referenced "visiting her parents" and not responding to your texts. Don't be surprised if she tries to beat you to the punch by having you served soon.


----------



## TX-SC

You are doing well. Stick to your strategy. Remember to keep a VAR on you when talking with her. Time to setup an email for your communications.


----------



## GusPolinski

Back up those texts and pics in a couple of different cloud-based locations.

If you've not already done so, change the passwords associated with your iCloud, email, and iTunes accounts.

Also consider getting yourself a new phone on a new plan that your wife is unable to access -- that way she can't see when you're contacting OMW, which lawyer(s) you're dealing with, etc.

Also stop using the home PC and disconnect it from your home network. If you've got any personal data on it, back it up to an external drive.


----------



## honcho

Tobyboy said:


> Sounds like your wife has spoken with a lawyer also when she referenced "visiting her parents" and not responding to your texts. Don't be surprised if she tries to beat you to the punch by having you served soon.


When I confronted my ex and told her I had proof of her lies via text it was on a sunday. No response from her and Monday by noon she had a lawyer hired and divorce filed.


----------



## Dyokemm

When MIL gave you that rude and cold shoulder in front of your own kids.....you should have set the record straight right then and there.

You should have told her parents, that regardless of what they have been told, your WW has been having an A.....and that you have contacted OBS who has given you the content of pics and texts sent.

Now that you have the proof, I see no reason for keeping her dirty secret.....

EXPOSE the A to both your families and all friends.....quash this blameshifting and gaslighting campaign that it is obvious she is conducting against you....as evidenced by MIL reaction.

And if you want any chance at saving your M......you must KILL THE A........

Same weapon to do so.....

EXPOSE!


----------



## MJJEAN

drifting on said:


> When your wife does respond, just tell her that you have given copies of all evidence to your lawyer. It will all be filed under adultery as the grounds for divorce as well as listing OM. This means that once your divorce is final, it all becomes public record. At that point in time, if she is not amicable in the divorce and admit to your cheating, you will give copies of said divorce to those that she lied to. You will do this to strictly clear your name, not an attempt at coercion.


I wouldn't bother. AFAIK, the few states that allow for adultery filings require proof the affair was physical. If you don't have that your case for adultery isn't going to fly. Then she gets to use the court rejecting the adultery claim as proof you're delusional.

And stop arguing with her. Who cares what she thinks or how she feels? So what if she blames you yadda yadda? Stop talking about anything except the children and the business end of the divorce. That's all. Ignore any bullpucky relationship comments she makes.


----------



## Mizzbak

OZZP said:


> I texted her this morning and let her know that her boyfriends wife gave me copies of her text messages and photos with her "special friend" and that I now know she is a complete liar. She has not responded. I'm not sure if she is waiting to respond until after she can speak to her boyfriend or if she is just going to ignore me, but at least she knows that I have the messages.


Ozzp - I can imagine that your strongest desire is for your wife to acknowledge what she did to your face and admit the wrong of it. At the very least. Sadly, I think that this is unlikely. You need to assume that she will continue to lie brazenly even in the face of concrete evidence. Rather like a child who screws their eyes tight shut because that way they can pretend that they did nothing wrong. I think that she probably does not have the strength of character to face up to what she did. Look at it - she left you and your children rather than face up to what she thought were just your suspicions. 

So, now that these suspicions are confirmed, you need to assume that she will try as hard as she can to paint you as the one in the wrong. Because she cannot accept that she is the one in the wrong. First she will deny to friends and family that she did anything. Then, if that is blown out of the water with evidence, she will say that you and your jealousy/lack of love/regard drove her to it. If I were you, I would disclose appropriately to those who you believe need to know. Either because you need their support, or because she can do you damage by getting a lie in before you can tell the truth. Simply tell the truth. Do not be vindictive - although TBH, I do not see anything like that in what you have written. And if someone (like your MIL) chooses to believe her lies over your truth, then so be it. You need to accept that that is their choice to make. And hopefully their loyalty to her will reap its true reward. 

Have you thought of speaking to a child psychologist or counsellor about how to tell your children what is going on? I would suggest that you make deciding on a course of action here a high priority. This is not one area where you want your wife's dishonest perspective to dominate because it got there first. (I would also suggest that you ask and document the psychologist's opinion about the manner in which your wife's dramatic leaving of your home (without any consultation with you) has likely affected your children and their adjusting to this new situation.) 

If you can, prevent her from setting the pace - in the divorce filing, informing friends and family what is going on and in matters regarding your children. And I am sorry to say, please do not rely on anything from her to help you gain a sense of closure on your marriage or any future steps. As wrong as this may feel, you need to remember that she does not have your best interests at heart. You need to start trying to disengage yourself emotionally from her and stop worrying about her. Thoughts with you Ozzp. I am very sorry.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Have your attorney guide you in everything you do concerning your wife and all others starting today!

Your emotions will want to have you do things that are not helping you when you get to court or the legal papers. I say this because you did not control your emotions and remain quiet and stealthy back in June. I am not knocking you because it is very hard to keep emotions and actions in check in the first few months after D-Day. The only thing that matters now is that you take steps that will help you win as much as possible in the D…The pictures and texts may force your wife to give you a D that is favorable to you without going to court.

Be very cautious of revealing too much to the OM’s wife. She already is shifting the blame from her husband to your wife…You already have the pictures that the OM’s wife gave you so unless she has more information that will help you with the D, do not trust her.

Again, let your attorney guide tour every move and follow his/her instructions without deviation. Your emotions will pass but the legal papers will be in force for many year.


----------



## drifting on

MJJEAN said:


> I wouldn't bother. AFAIK, the few states that allow for adultery filings require proof the affair was physical. If you don't have that your case for adultery isn't going to fly. Then she gets to use the court rejecting the adultery claim as proof you're delusional.
> 
> And stop arguing with her. Who cares what she thinks or how she feels? So what if she blames you yadda yadda? Stop talking about anything except the children and the business end of the divorce. That's all. Ignore any bullpucky relationship comments she makes.




Except for the fact that OP does have evidence. OP has messages explaining what underwear to purchase for OM, pictures of her nude to OM, and most likely words of what they did. OP has not seen any of the underwear, OP was not sent any of the photos, and clearly this would be proof of an affair. Court can be very difficult or very simple, jurors and judges can both make a determination from evidence presented, but the one thing it won't prove is that OP is delusional. File as adultery and let her prove her innocence.


----------



## samyeagar

drifting on said:


> Except for the fact that OP does have evidence. OP has messages explaining what underwear to purchase for OM, pictures of her nude to OM, and most likely words of what they did. OP has not seen any of the underwear, OP was not sent any of the photos, and clearly this would be proof of an affair. Court can be very difficult or very simple, jurors and judges can both make a determination from evidence presented, but the one thing it won't prove is that OP is delusional. File as adultery and let her prove her innocence.


Obviously jurisdictions vary, but the vast majority do not consider grounds when it comes to things like division of property and debt, alimony awards, or custody, so there is no material reason to insist on an at fault divorce by reason of adultery. The only potential benefit in some jurisdictions is the waiver of any waiting periods, so a divorce can be granted immediately. Though actually proving infidelity if the cheating party fights it is much easier said than done.

In the case of my ex wife and I, I filed no fault because it was more important to me to have the marriage dissolved as close to immediately as possible than it was to have the public record reflect her infidelity.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

MattMatt said:


> Of course, her copy of the keys will be waiting for her when -if!- she returns home.


And be sure to share this statement with people of solid reputation so if it ever comes up in court you have witnesses to back you from ill intent to use it against you.


----------



## drifting on

samyeagar said:


> Obviously jurisdictions vary, but the vast majority do not consider grounds when it comes to things like division of property and debt, alimony awards, or custody, so there is no material reason to insist on an at fault divorce by reason of adultery. The only potential benefit in some jurisdictions is the waiver of any waiting periods, so a divorce can be granted immediately. Though actually proving infidelity if the cheating party fights it is much easier said than done.
> 
> In the case of my ex wife and I, I filed no fault because it was more important to me to have the marriage dissolved as close to immediately as possible than it was to have the public record reflect her infidelity.




While I understand and agree with what you have stated, OP also has a chance of having any money used to fund the affair returned to him. Depending upon his state laws it could speed the divorce through as you said, get money returned, and public record. If lies were told to any attorneys that were stated otherwise also can be used against WW. Discredits her stature to the court. In affairs we all know how they lie.


----------



## MJJEAN

drifting on said:


> Except for the fact that OP does have evidence. OP has messages explaining what underwear to purchase for OM, pictures of her nude to OM, and most likely words of what they did. OP has not seen any of the underwear, OP was not sent any of the photos, and clearly this would be proof of an affair. Court can be very difficult or very simple, jurors and judges can both make a determination from evidence presented, but the one thing it won't prove is that OP is delusional. File as adultery and let her prove her innocence.


None of that proves a physical affair. She bought some underwear and sent some pics. From what OP has related here the texts say nothing about them actually having had sex. In fact, he said the texts don't prove a physical affair, just the wish for one.

Remember, no fault became so common precisely because proving other grounds is so damn difficult. 

OP files under adultery and it falls flat, she ends up with "proof" he's delusional and the reason the marriage failed.


----------



## JohnA

Read this Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums. You need to reach out and follow the guidlines suggested with family, friends, and children above the age of 4.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Good luck. I wish the best for you. And please don't allow your WW to seek R unless she shows some serious remorse as in @EI type remorse.


----------



## drifting on

Ozzp

How are you doing? Hang in there, your wife is going to do some serious damage control and paint her OM's wife as crazy. She will have an excuse for every bit of evidence you have. This goes one of two ways now, she sticks to her story and does damage control, or she admits. If she admits it will be the fault of everyone but hers. Your phrase you need to say and learn IF she admits is this, try again. She will only admit in pieces, trickling the truth out, you just continue to say try again, evidence says much worse. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you check every folder of her email acct. ? Emails can end up in strange places and not deleted. Another trick is to use a joint email where only written but not sent emails are used.


----------



## TDSC60

How are you dong Ozz?


----------



## Dyokemm

I'm afraid for OP that chaos has erupted in his situation.....he hasn't posted in awhile.

Hope he is handling the stress and nuttiness well.


----------



## mynameismudd

Sorry, but all this secret taping and spying.... Isn't that illegal?

It is illegal to install spy apps, voice recorders and stuff like that without the other person knowing.

is that not the case everywhere, or am I seeing vindictive advice being given out?

If I installed a spy app on my wife's phone and a voice recorder in her car without her knowledge, *I* would get in quite serious trouble. Not to mention, anything I found would be inadmissable....

Maybe that's just in my locality?


----------



## EleGirl

mynameismudd said:


> Sorry, but all this secret taping and spying.... Isn't that illegal?
> 
> It is illegal to install spy apps, voice recorders and stuff like that without the other person knowing.
> 
> is that not the case everywhere, or am I seeing vindictive advice being given out?
> 
> If I installed a spy app on my wife's phone and a voice recorder in her car without her knowledge, *I* would get in quite serious trouble. Not to mention, anything I found would be inadmissable....
> 
> Maybe that's just in my locality?


Spy ware installed on computers and phones depends on who owns the device.

Putting a VAR in the a vehicle to record someone else's conversation is illegal everywhere as far as I now since the person recording it is not involved in the conversation.

Often when people use a VAR in their spouse's vehicle, the purpose is not to get any evidence for court. It's to find out what is going on in their own lives. They do it at their own risk.

Sometimes the only way to verify that one's spouse is cheating is to snoop...sadly.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

mynameismudd said:


> Sorry, but all this secret taping and spying.... Isn't that illegal?
> 
> 
> 
> It is illegal to install spy apps, voice recorders and stuff like that without the other person knowing.
> 
> 
> 
> is that not the case everywhere, or am I seeing vindictive advice being given out?
> 
> 
> 
> If I installed a spy app on my wife's phone and a voice recorder in her car without her knowledge, *I* would get in quite serious trouble. Not to mention, anything I found would be inadmissable....
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's just in my locality?




Perhaps that's not really the issue. The kind of person who's afraid of leaving a cheating spouse might also be scared of getting in trouble over putting a recording device in their own car.

Personally I'd have NO problems "illegally" installing an app or putting a VAR in my own house, bedroom and car. Because I have strong boundaries and self respect. I would not be scared in the least of the legal issues because I would not intend to use the information in a legal setting. Plus the penalties would be trivial - if there were any - compared with the damages caused by a SO who is actively betraying me.

Stop living in such fear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

Using a VAR may be technically illegal, but so is homosexuality in many municipalities. So is adultery in many jurisdictions. 

There is not a municipality on this planet who is going to waste taxpayer money prosecuting a person for bugging his own vehicle. 

This type of recording is not admissible evidence in civil court. But he is not using the VAR for court evidence. He's using it to verify his suspicions, nothing more. A county or federal prosecuter would look at it, yawn, and hand it back to the investigator and say "next case"....


----------



## 3putt

bandit.45 said:


> Using a VAR may be technically illegal, but so is homosexuality in many municipalities. So is adultery in many jurisdictions.
> 
> There is not a municipality on this planet who is going to waste taxpayer money prosecuting a person for bugging his own vehicle.
> 
> This type of recording is not admissible evidence in civil court. But he is not using the VAR for court evidence. He's using it to verify his suspicions, nothing more. A county or federal prosecuter would look at it, yawn, and hand it back to the investigator and say "next case"....


Exactly.


----------



## Steve1000

OZZP said:


> I should have tried to eat lunch before I read this. I think I may need to call my doctor.
> 
> Is it normal to feel physically ill in this situation?


This is a very late reply, but after I had gone through something similar, a colleague told me that he was concerned because I looked like I had incurable cancer. I was physically ill for six weeks and missed about ten days of work. After the misery becomes less intense, weight lifting and bicycling helped me to further recover.


----------

