# Is this dangerous?



## ChimeIn (Oct 10, 2009)

I think I know what I need to do now... but I can't tell if this is a slippery slope to separation and divorce... I basically need to cut him out of my emotional life/growth for the time being and hope that we can meet up again later on down the road... maybe in another 6 months to a year?

My brief history is on another thread I began, entitled:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/8743-how-should-i-phrase-my-husband.html

After a few more "discussions" and dealing with family over Thanksgiving, he finally opened up a little more to me the other day. He said, and I quote, "I've lost a little respect for you as a person." But most of the things he went on to list were just ridiculous! He said:

My pain threshold is too low (I have chronic migraines). 
I've lost physical strength.
I had to leave the lucrative career that I enjoyed because of the migraines.
I have low confidence and low self-esteem.
I seem unhappy all the time. (He places EXTREME value on being able to find personal happiness no matter what your circumstances are).

I call bull**** on MOST IF NOT ALL OF THIS. 

Yes, we've been married for 20 years and he's had to deal with caring for me while I have 2-3 migraines every month.

Yes, I have lost physical strength... the career I used to have was very physical. It required me to be more muscular; but I am not overweight.

Yes, I had to leave my career. I enjoyed it very much and it involved good pay and a lot of travel. But after we had junior my migraines (which seem to be hormonal) got INTENSELY worse. I would work a day and then be in bed for a full day. Every job I would take (it was freelance) I would end up sick by then end of the day... just hoping to make it to the car before I would vomit and be unable to even drive home. It was PAINFUL to have to leave a job that I liked, that I was good at, and that paid me well... but I had to. And then I had to find peace in that decision. It was not easy.

I DO NOT have low self-esteem or low self-confidence. (And I'm so $#@%ing tired of hearing that from him every time we get into a fight. Everything that is wrong with US goes back to MY low self-esteem). I'm a realist. I left my career when my son was three years old because I HAD TO. I didn't start anything else right away because I wanted to stay with him for a few years. The summer before he started Kindergarten (this past August) we moved out of state. So now I'm in a new area with no clients, no contacts, and a resume with a 2 year gap on it. That's not insurmountable, but its something I have to deal with. I've taken a P/T job in the meantime, while I get used to the new city... but that's not good enough.

I seem unhappy all the time because I'm not happy WHEN I'M WITH HIM. Now that he's admitted that he's lost respect for me, this makes total sense. Of course I seem unhappy... why would I have any reason to be happy when I can sense, on some level, that he has no respect for me? I honestly feel like he doesn't even like me anymore. I've said that to him several times and he's always denied it... but this makes it all clear. He's not classifying it as "I don't like you" so much as its a vague feeling I get that I'm not worth his time.

I know he loves me... I really do. Or at least he did at one time. And I'm probably painting a very inaccurate picture of him because I'm PO'd right now. But I have no interest in being with him if that is how he truly feels about me. But I would never divorce him over something as "trivial" as this. He would have to abuse me, have an affair or do something truly awful for me to even consider it.... and it would devastate our child and our family.

So I'm left with thinking... I want to be happy again. I want to be a good mom. I want to continue working on myself and growing as a person... but I can't include him. It has to be on my own. I can't be as emotionally connected as I used to be... we can't maintain that closeness while we're parents and while we adjust to our new life. So be it. 

My plan is to be gone "at work" every day during the week. I don't really need to be gone 40 hours a week, but I think "familiarity breeds contempt" and we're just brimming with tension both sitting around our tiny apartment while I look for work. (He has family money and isn't looking for work right now.)

My other plans are to stay active, stay busy, try to meet friends in my new town and try to find happiness wherever I can... my hobbies, my child, my personal growth... but I will be unable to open up any of that to him. In fact, I'll have to exclude him pretty obviously. 

I've tried for the last 10 months or so (since a big fight in February) to be supportive, understanding, unselfish and reassuring. I've told him a few times that I think we should be the ones who are the MOST willing to cut each other some slack and turn the other cheek. But I'm done with that. I'm too tired and I'm not willing to do that anymore... when its clearly not working. He tells me over and over that he won't be "fake" with me and won't be my "yes" man by just being agreeable. So fine... I'm tired of being his "yes" woman by trying to be understanding. I'm going to have to be selfish, and think of myself and my child for right now. I'm leaving him out. 

I'm returning to school to finish my bachelor's degree next fall... in fact, his family offered to pay for it! So I will do that, and hope that in a few months we might be on the same page again. I have no idea what will happen, but I know I'm not going to be the only one trying anymore. I'm too aggravated and I'm too tired of being the only one fighting for us. From now on, I'm only working on me, for me.


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## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

ChimeIn said:


> I think I know what I need to do now... but I can't tell if this is a slippery slope to separation and divorce... I basically need to cut him out of my emotional life/growth for the time being and hope that we can meet up again later on down the road... maybe in another 6 months to a year? *I really think once you separate it is going to be a lot more difficult to meet back up. This approach is going to do a lot more harm than good. *
> 
> My brief history is on another thread I began, entitled, "How Should I Phrase this to my Husband?"
> 
> ...


Im sorry, but I just do not agree with you are thinking here. You say you wont divorce him, but you sure aren't doing anything that is going to help your situation. You are going to drive the one person who has been with you and stood by your side through sickness and health. I really think that you should see a counselor, both marriage and individual.


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## Sven (Nov 18, 2009)

I think you have torn a rift between yourselves and each want the other spouse to bridge the gap. It must be done from both sides.

Calling his comments to you BS is destructive, not helpful. He wouldn't tell you these things if he didn't feel that way. You don't have to agree - but you need to recognize how he feels.

When you ask him to talk and then feel he picks an inappropriate time to do it...well you are just setting too many restrictions on what you expect. So what if the kid's awake, the TVs blaring, etc. etc.....talk to him.

I'm sure he's not the perfect angel - your comments make it clear that he needs to give you positive feedback instead of negative. But this appears to clearly be a two way street.

Marriage counseling will help.


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## ChimeIn (Oct 10, 2009)

Thanks for your input... I tried writing back this week, but was always interrupted by Junior or Husband. 

The good news is, we did find a therapist. We met with him last week. I was expecting it to just be a "meet & greet" where we would talk about his approach, money, insurance, etc., but it ended up being more.

As much as I tried to keep my emotions in check, I cried pretty much through the 25 minute meeting. I don't know if my H was shocked by that or not. He did say he was glad to hear that I was being so honest... I told the therapist that my main problems are that I hold everything in, let it get to the boiling point, explode at my H, then get overly sensitive and clam up to the point where I'm not listening to anything H says. So that's the good side.

The bad side... that relates to my OP, is that my H seems to think we're going to counseling only to fix ME. He seems to feel he's not at fault in any way... that these are all MY problems. I know that I have a depressive personality (and I've had multiple depressive periods) but I don't think anyone can say that they are 100% right and their spouse is 100% wrong.

When I call B/S on his points (something that we do to each other to say "Hey, you have to fight fair") I'm saying that I can't do anything about most of these. I can't change my physical ailments. And I don't know how else to show him that I don't suffer from low self-esteem and low self-confidence. I think he gets these ideas because he expects so much more from me than he does from anyone else... so there's no way I could measure up. The things that would "count" with him are the things I have no desire to do. Why should I change what I want just to prove a point to him?

(BTW when he told me his points, I listened. I didn't get defensive and start interrupting and telling him how he was wrong. But a part of me did tune him out and think "this isn't really the problem"... there must be something deeper other than my puny biceps. He isn't that shallow... he just isn't.)

When I talk about emotionally cutting him out, it has to do with his final point, the I seem unhappy all the time. DancingNancie I would have agreed with you 6 months ago that no one can MAKE you unhappy. Now, I stand corrected. Being around someone 24/7 who has such obvious disdain for you TRULY affects how you feel. I have plenty of happy times when I'm with my friends, my child, my volunteer work... just not with him. I found myself unable to remain blissfully unaware of his feelings and be happy while sensing an underlying tension all the time. I understand what you mean, and I think it applies to every other person/relationship in your life... but not your spouse. They absolutely have the power to MAKE you unhappy. You give them that power when you love them that much.

As far as separating myself from him emotionally... you know how people say, after a divorce or separation, "I have to work on me first before I can date again." Well, I get the feeling that's what he wants me to do... work on me first before we can be HAPPILY married again. That's what I mean by leaving him out.

Also, there are different levels of emotional involvement in every marriage... and at different times of the same marriage as it morphs over the years. We've always been EXTREMELY close and have been able to talk about deep, meaningful subjects. But in our current marriage, I walk on eggshells too much to do that. I miss it, but I'm wondering if its unreasonable to expect that during the child-rearing years. That's what I mean by saying: "I basically need to cut him out of my emotional life/growth for the time being and hope that we can meet up again later on down the road... maybe in another 6 months to a year?"

Of course I want to include him in my life, and for the three of us to be a happy family again... I don't mean keeping him out forever. But he VERY CLEARLY seems to think that I'm lacking in some fundamental ways. I can't ignore that. I can work on it... but he wants me to do it alone. I've tried what I think are rational requests to ask him for help in our marriage. He tells me no. He tells me that I'm the one with the problem and that each individual has to walk their own path. 

I'm really left with very few options. Like I said, I would never leave him over something less than an affair or physical abuse. But I can't continue trying to "fix" it my way. It hasn't worked for the last 10 months and I refuse to continue this way. So unless I'm willing to try something else, we're at a stalemate.

For the record, he *says* he supports the idea of me going back to school, but his body language and eye rolling tells me he thinks its ridiculous... that I should be able to establish contacts and get work in a new town without going back to school... he thinks I just lack the self-confidence to do it. 

I think that I need to seize this opportunity to change paths on my career to something less physical and that a degree would be almost required for that to happen.

(I don't have a problem accepting money from my in-laws for tuition. They offered it to me, and H doesn't seem to mind. They just recently came into a LARGE sum of money and they've bought my brother-in-law (H's older brother) several cars and a new house. Two years of tuition at a state college will hardly dent their account. I didn't ask them to do it... they offered and I know they want to do it to feel that they've been equal in their gifts to the two sons.)

In the meantime, I'll think over your comments a little more... and I'm really looking forward to our first 2 hour appointment with the therapist.

Thanks for your input.


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## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

I think you are getting much closer, and Im glad you found a counselor! 

I will agree with you that no one is right 100% of the time in a marriage. I think that you coming to grips with how you communicate with him is a huge step! Now it is time for him to look within himself and see what he has contributed to the breakdown. I have learned that it takes both people to understand how they have contributed to the breakdown of the marriage. After that you can start to change behaviors on both sides to make the communication better.

One thing that stuck out in your post is that you say you don't have self confidence problems at the beginning of your post but at the end when talking about returning to work you say that you lack the self confidence to make contacts. I think you should look a little deeper at this. Self confidence doesn't appear in some areas and not others. Do you try and convince yourself you have confidence in yourself because your hubby says it isn't there?


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## ChimeIn (Oct 10, 2009)

Perhaps I wasn't clear in how I worded the two sentences... when I posted:

"For the record, he *says* he supports the idea of me going back to school, but his body language and eye rolling tells me he thinks its ridiculous... that I should be able to establish contacts and get work in a new town without going back to school... that i just lack the self-confidence to do it."

I meant that to be from his point of view... not mine. That's one of the ways he tells me his opinion is that I lack self-confidence. 

MY OPINION is that the timing is perfect for me to finish my bachelor's degree right now... our child has just started elementary school, I have no contacts or clients yet since we've just moved, my old career was waning because of physical problems, and I my old skillset will be extremely useful in my new career... but that I need a bachelor's degree.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

How does the bachelor's degree contribute to healing your marriage? 

If you are working on your degree, what consequences does that have for the rest of the family?

I went through what your husband is going through, and unless you break the cycle somehow, somewhere, each of you will only continue to build resentment for the other.

I didn't respect my spouse. This was a direct result of her consistently NOT delivering on what she said she was going to do. Or worse, she would take some action to establish her 'independence' that simply meant their were consequences for the rest of the family. Given that I was already riding the edge, the choices that she insisted were important to her - pushed me over.

She then claimed that it was impossible to feel close to, or want to be sexual with someone that she didn't feel supported her.

It was an absolutely vicious cycle. Something to be aware of as you move forward.


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## scarletblue (May 20, 2009)

It can be hard when you feel you aren't getting the respect and support you feel you need. 

I don't see a problem going back to school to get your degree. If nothing else, that should help your self esteem that your hubby thinks you're lacking at the moment. Even if you don't think you're lacking in it at all. If your husband didn't want you to get your degree and improve yoursef....that would be a problem, in my opinion.

Here is the slippery slope. When it gets to the point where each of you is waiting for the other to make an effort. That creates a huge vicious circle. Each of you resents the other and is waiting for the other to "do something" to fix things. It gets to a point where neither of you is doing anything to fix the problem, so it never gets fixed.

People respond to each other's actions. Instead of letting the "rut" continue, make an effort. Don't do things expecting one particular reaction, do things because you love him and want a good life for your family.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

ChimeIn,
A few general observations. I really like how you are looking at this situation. You are justifiably upset, and yet your responses and planned moves are measured. You are driving this process with thought not anger. 

Your assessment is logical and consistent. Some of your statements are patently true such as the notion that there is no way this is 100 percent you and 0 percent him. 

Is there a separate issue making him angry/disdainful of you? For instance is your sex life healthy? In both directions? Are you happy and is he happy? Because some of the stuff he is doing to you, often happens when sex has all but stopped and one or both of you are very upset about it. 










ChimeIn said:


> Perhaps I wasn't clear in how I worded the two sentences... when I posted:
> 
> "For the record, he *says* he supports the idea of me going back to school, but his body language and eye rolling tells me he thinks its ridiculous... that I should be able to establish contacts and get work in a new town without going back to school... that i just lack the self-confidence to do it."
> 
> ...


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## Sven (Nov 18, 2009)

I think you're trying to control him. All you can fix is yourself.

Continue the counseling and even if he doesn't think he has a problem, he will still learn. He might even start to respond, but probably not in a way you expect he should.


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## dan681 (Nov 24, 2009)

My wife and I recently started counseling, and has helped both of us. But, when we went together, we were never truely honest with the other. Try going to the couseler seperately for a while. They may be able to get to the root of both of you. You both seem to be making decisions emotionally, instead of logically. A professional might be able to solve some of the problems that neither of you are admitting?? It might work. It worked for us so far.


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## ChimeIn (Oct 10, 2009)

An update on us:

We did go to our first counseling session and it was EYE-OPENING. It wasn't what I expected it to be at all. Our counselor, Tom, uses a Jungian approach... which I'm really not familiar with at all. But instead of letting us sit there and fight in front of him and interrupting with who he thought was *right* (which is what I was sort of expecting), he did something else entirely. He said we have to find out who we are and how we communicate. He said there's the emotional and rational (I'm very rational) and that's going to affect not only your communication style but how you *hear* and *see* what's happening around you. He also talked a lot about neuro-science. How your body PHYSICALLY reacts to verbal cues. Sometimes, you really have no control over how your body reacts.

It was amazing for him to dig just a little bit and find that I'm very rational now as an adult, but my neuro-science is to shut down the second I feel like I'm being perceived as needy or dependent in any way. I sound just like that on my OP, don't it?

One of the best things that happened is that H did see that he is contributing to our problems... it isn't just me who needs to go to therapy to be *fixed*. We started discussing why he's shutting me out without intending to do so, what he's afraid of, and we worked on learning how to soothe each other. That part was really helpful...

We were basically sitting on the couch not looking at each other and our respective body language was CLEARLY "Don't you dare approach me." Therapist Tom asked me what H could do to soften my feelings for him... and I said I needed some acknowledgment of our anniversary. He coached H into soothing me and it really worked. 

H started by trying to explain to me, "Well, we didn't do anything for our anniversary because..." and Therapist Tom interrupted and said, very plainly, "You cannot go back and change that hurt... its there now. The only thing you can do is soothe that hurt. You're explaining right now. You can't explain. You need to soothe. You need to say, 'I know we let our anniversary slip by without celebrating it... and I'm really sorry that we allowed that to happen. I know you must have been hurt. It was never my intention to hurt you with that. I am TRULY happy that I married you and I love you still to this moment.'"

It was incredible to hear those words and it truly did soften my attitude towards him. I finally feel some hope that we're going to get somewhere with this.

We were able to travel and not fight on our getaway weekend. (We haven't been able to vacation without junior for the last couple of years.) But I'm still just stymied by some of his choices. Like the anniversary thing. We just had our 20 year anniversary. And he did nothing. We talked about trips... I said I would go on any one of them, but none of them seemed right or *perfect* to him. It finally arrived and I bought him flowers, made dinner reservations, hired a babysitter and made a video for him of our 20 years together. He didn't do anything except pay for dinner. I don't think there was a card or a flower at all. Our weekend getaway was in Vegas and I just saw it as an opportunity for him to DO SOMETHING with me or for me to kind of make up for our lack of an anniversary event. But he didn't plan anything. The worst part is that I KNEW he wouldn't even when I still had hope. I was packing in my closet and broke down in tears... thinking of all the possibilities that were open in Vegas without junior, and knowing that he would do none of them. I guess it doesn't occur to him? Sometimes I feel like I'm just one of the guys to him. I have always worked in a male-dominated field and I don't typically do a lot of "girly" things. I don't know if I should expect those types of feminine things from him if I'm not going to be a girly-girl.

On the same vein, this past year I've lost weight with Weight Watchers. I finally reached my goal weight... something that is celebrated in the meeting and rewarded with a Lifetime Keychain, etc., but I got nothing from him other than a "Hey that's great. That must make you really happy."

I don't really expect physical gifts from him... he's not a flowers & candy kind of guy. But I expected something. I just don't see those actions as the kind of thing a man does if he wants to stay married. Aren't those all things you would do if you wanted to start a fight? Consciously or not? It feels like Marriage 101 is to compliment your wife when she loses weight. Celebrating an anniversary with a heartfelt emotion isn't too much to expect... is it?

I have no idea why he's shutting me out like this. It feels very unconscious on his part. It doesn't occur to him to compliment me on my weight loss, he doesn't approach me for sex, and he very rarely has positive things to say to me. I think his words say "You know I love you baby," but his actions say "Get the hell away from me, you repulse me."

Any input from you husbands out there would be helpful. I'm making another appointment with Therapist Tom, but then we're heading straight into Christmas with the family. We'll see how that goes.


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