# Advice about Husband's EA



## emuna (Nov 1, 2016)

I posted this in addictions group but I think I need further advice on my situation from those in the Infidelity section of the site.. This is a bit long.

My husband and I have been married for 9 years, we have two kids. In August of this year, we entered into marriage counseling because of constant fighting and arguing going on, poor communication, etc. It was so bad, we were one breath away from divorce. It came down to him saying if I didn't go to counseling, he would file the papers.

So far, it's been going well.we are both happier with one another , of course it's not perfect but we're communicating better, things in our relationship are overall improved, including sexual. Anyways, here are my issues. Now, he has this female friend he's known for 6 years and has been in touch with on and off during this time. She's 30, I'm 38 years old, so not much of a difference in age.

He met her when he worked at the local casino. She was another employee. I have met her in person twice the whole time he's known her. He texts her and talks to her maybe a couple times a month (non sexual things) but they're long convos... a few days ago, it was a phone call that lasted AN HOUR. He called her when he was working. I've never quite felt ok with this relationship. But he swears up and down, sideways and backwards - THEY ARE JUST FRIENDS -NOTHING MORE! He does not want this woman even if we divorced, there is no dating potential.

He's never given me a reason to ever think they had a physical affair nor have they actually hung out together frequently. I'm pretty sure it's just emotional on HIS side. One sided. I spoke to her a couple of months ago and told her how I felt - she said it's silly about me thinking she is sleeping with him or has any romantic feelings since that's NOT happening. Ok I believe her. I bugged my husband's phone and recorded conversations to make absolutely sure they are telling the truth. Of course it is true with her, she doesn't seem to want him at all. BUT, here is my issue: I think my husband is the one that is developing feelings for her. All he does is get on the phone and they both cry and complain about their significant others. (me and her current boyfriend) He's saying things like "I feel we are more compatible with each other than we are with our significant others" My jaw hit the floor and I am still in shock over what I heard. She was all like, "um yeah I guess so" Kind of hesitant.

What else he's doing during these conversations ? He's telling her things from my past that I'm not proud of NOR SHOULD IT BE HER BUSINESS. He's admitted to only marrying me because I got pregnant with my now 9 year old child and needed the insurance for maternity care. He never admits to her that he actually loves me. I've never heard that yet! He said that early in our dating relationship, there was an issue regarding my ex and our divorce proceedings then, and he said to her, "I wish I would have just stayed away from her". I'm hurt, very very hurt.

They were discussing her relationship at one point and my husband was heard comparing me to her dysfunctional boyfriend, saying "well maybe emuna and Toby should get together, they seem like a good match" and both kind of laughed. This guy is abusive and has some pretty serious mental health issues. I do not have these problems, I'm not sure why he would say hurtful things like that.

We have brought this up in counseling, but the therapist just blames it all on my insecurity and self esteem issues. I'm pretty frustrated.

I think he's lying completely about his feelings and what he really wants. He's all lovey-dovey with me and says he loves me, treats me with care when he's not talking to her but he's admitting all this stuff to her and I AM SHOCKED. I DON'T KNOW how I can ever trust him or believe what he really is or how he really feels. I'm considering leaving him. We have so much to lose.
Update: He was telling her our marriage is getting better, her response? "Wow, it's hard to believe your marriage is getting so much better after all the issues you've gone through".
To me, that sounded like...disappointment perhaps? He's no longer available to her in her mind? I don't know


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Does he know you bugged his phone and heard all that?

And the therapist thinks it's all in your head?

You need a new therapist. 

Sounds like a one sided EA. 

And why is there no dating potential? Because he says so???


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I re-read your other thread. The advice still is valid. 

See a lawyer and make sure he knows. Discuss with the lawyer what you get in a divorce 

This is the only way to end this.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

He is lying to your face. You have the evidence. Go see a lawyer and divorce him. Tell him what you know and that there is no going back. You should not have to subject yourself to this, he is having an EA with her, any kind of sharing with her is taking it away from you, he should not be sharing intimate information about you with anyone. He is not to be trusted. Get rid of him.


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## emuna (Nov 1, 2016)

I spoke to him lastnight and said "If you have nothing to hide and want me to trust you, call her now in front of me and talk to her". He threw the argument at me saying "I grew up in a family where I learned not to talk to other people on the phone in front of others, we have private conversations". Yeah, I'm sickened, he's such a scumbag. It's right there in front of me he obviously has something to hide. I am sick and tired of being told this is all in my head, they are JUST FRIENDS, HE NEVER talks to her when he's at home, he always talks to her when he's out somewhere. 
I want to scream


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## emuna (Nov 1, 2016)

I really wonder if she's getting a power trip out of all of this and refuses to stop talking t o him, knowing how upset it makes me.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@emuna, the current situation is unacceptable - others have told you this; and you, yourself, know this. 

How much more evidence do you need? How much more disrespect and disregard do you need to feel from him before you are willing/able to force change? I admit that I am not able to be unbiased here - there is very little that makes me angrier than an unrepentant, cheating spouse. And he is cheating. Just because his definition has to include sex, does not mean that yours does. Yours (if I read right) is about loyalty. And his is to her. 

The change you need to make will be hard - it is is either an end to your marriage or an end to your husband's relationship with this other woman. But this situation continues because you allow it. It is not happening to you, you are allowing it to happen. You have power - use that power.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I would classify this as an EA. If she still talks to him even after you had your conversation with her, she doesn't see anything wrong with what's going on and is probably awaiting for him to get divorced. Even if you were to successful reconcile with him, she would always still be out there. He' just not given you good reason to to keep the marriage going.


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## emuna (Nov 1, 2016)

@Mizzbak I understand. I'm going to be printing out a copy of divorce papers and giving him an ultimatum. I'll say something like It's come to this - its either me or it's Sarah. I cannot accept this "friendship" anymore - you've been blowing smoke up my ass for too long and obviously you both have been lying to me. And lying to our therapist. Either you come clean and tell me the truth about you and Sarah or these get signed.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

emuna said:


> I really wonder if she's getting a power trip out of all of this and refuses to stop talking t o him, knowing how upset it makes me.




Yes it's a power trip for her that she can get him to orbit her. You don't factor into her thoughts however.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

emuna said:


> @Mizzbak I understand. I'm going to be printing out a copy of divorce papers and giving him an ultimatum. I'll say something like It's come to this - its either me or it's Sarah. I cannot accept this "friendship" anymore - you've been blowing smoke up my ass for too long and obviously you both have been lying to me. And lying to our therapist. Either you come clean and tell me the truth about you and Sarah or these get signed.




He is going to claim he is telling the truth. You need a better plan. I just don't know what it is. 

Polygraph?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

emuna said:


> @Mizzbak I understand. I'm going to be printing out a copy of divorce papers and giving him an ultimatum. I'll say something like It's come to this - its either me or it's Sarah. I cannot accept this "friendship" anymore - you've been blowing smoke up my ass for too long and obviously you both have been lying to me. And lying to our therapist. Either you come clean and tell me the truth about you and Sarah or these get signed.


Do not give him an ultimatum. Just hand him divorce papers. He will call your bluff anyway and tell you fine, you made me make a choice and I choose HER. Just DO it. 

Oh, and you're past this, but here's a handy book to have when your husband tries to tell you he's JUST FRIENDS with another woman

https://www.amazon.ca/NOT-Just-Friends-Rebuilding-Recovering/dp/0743225503


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

She/they are the reason your marriage has been suffering for as long as it has. I'd file. He's a liar, and is using you, while he has a side thing. You deserve better.


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## emuna (Nov 1, 2016)

I just wanted to add that I remember texting her in July, saying "I dont know why you text and call my husband so much but its not cool to do this to a married man. This constant calling and texting seems to go beyond the boundaries of regular friendship, especially when I see that you text and call multiple times during the day and even at midnight when I'm not around. I'm not sure what is really going on, but please back off a bit".*, I caught her talking later on to my husband telling him "I wanted to send her (meaning ME) back a text saying "Wow now I know why your husband is the way he is with you, and why he likes me more than he does you" and they were both overheard laughing about that little statement. My husband was heard laughing, saying "Woooo I would have liked to see her reaction on that one". I don't find it one bit funny. not one bit. I'm so angry typing this I can't see straight. It shows a serious lack of intellect and maturity on her part.


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## emuna (Nov 1, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> She/they are the reason your marriage has been suffering for as long as it has. I'd file. He's a liar, and is using you, while he has a side thing. You deserve better.


You are right. I do deserve better.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

You need to confront your husband with clear evidence of his bad behaviour. Threatening him with divorce is not going to work. You've both already been there. I think that you need to confront his behaviour in front of a "neutral" third party. And then give him signed divorce papers with an ultimatum - if he wants to work on his marriage, then he needs to end (completely) his friendship with this other woman. If he does that, then you are prepared to undergo further counselling. Until then, the ball is in his court. 

When is your next counselling session? I would carefully (and as objectively as possible) document all these hurtful and disrespectful things that you have heard/overheard with dates and times. Total up the time that he spends talking to her - this many hours this week etc. (Do you have access to his cellphone records, so that you can show exactly how much time he spent talking to her?) Try and be as factual as you can. Don't write about your feelings, just write down what he/she said and how long they spoke for. Then for your next therapy session - take copies of this. (One for you, one for your husband and one for the therapist). Explain that despite your husband's reassurances, his behaviour still made you feel suspicious. And that you trusted your intuition, so you took action. 

Then distribute the copies and start reading allowed. On such-and-such date you said "quote"; on such-and-such date you shared this personal information about me with her etc. When you are asked where you got the information say that that isn't relevant. What is relevant is that you have inarguable proof that his "friendship" with this other woman is not at all innocent and that your husband clearly has very little loyalty to you. Ask the therapist whether such behaviour is appropriate in a healthy marriage. Don't let yourself get distracted by either of them asking where you got the information. Just keep asking (coldly and calmly) whether there is space for such a "friendship" in a healthy marriage. And keep reading the things that he has said about you and your marriage. If your husband tries to argue that you're making things up, then ask the therapist whether he/she would like to ask listen to recordings of these conversations in support of the document that you put together. Then ask the therapist to facilitate a discussion between you on how to go about a separation. Make it clear that you do not want either a divorce or a separation, but that you cannot consider anything else as long as this woman is part of your marriage. 

Once you leave the therapy session, you need to have a clear plan in place. Think about the practicalities - don't travel to the session together if you can help it. How are you for money? Is it reasonable for you to ask your husband to move out? 

You need to know that once you do this, your husband will know you are recording his conversations and then that source of information will no longer be there for you. But this boils down to asking how much more proof do you need? Do you have enough (for yourself) not to need any more in order to decide that you would rather divorce him then continue as you are? 

Finally, how close are you to your husband's family or anyone else whose opinion he respects? I'd disclose the document to them as well. (Look at the guidelines for disclosure on Marriagebuilders.com.) Ask for their help in saving your marriage by speaking to him about his behaviour and choices. If he really doesn't think he has done anything wrong, then he won't care. My guess, he will care. He knows his behaviour is unacceptable and their response should be the same as ours has been.

PS Make sure you have copies of these recordings somewhere safe where your husband cannot find them. Do you have a friend that you can leave them with?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

emuna said:


> I just wanted to add that I remember texting her in July, saying "I dont know why you text and call my husband so much but its not cool to do this to a married man. This constant calling and texting seems to go beyond the boundaries of regular friendship, especially when I see that you text and call multiple times during the day and even at midnight when I'm not around. I'm not sure what is really going on, but please back off a bit".*, I caught her talking later on to my husband telling him "I wanted to send her (meaning ME) back a text saying "Wow now I know why your husband is the way he is with you, and why he likes me more than he does you" and they were both overheard laughing about that little statement. My husband was heard laughing, saying "Woooo I would have liked to see her reaction on that one". I don't find it one bit funny. not one bit. I'm so angry typing this I can't see straight. It shows a serious lack of intellect and maturity on her part.


Emuna,
How much longer are you going to put up with being shoved in the mud, walked over and laughed at. Have more self respect girl, he is most definitely not worth it. If possible blow up the OW's world and hand your WH the divorce papers, tell all family, friends, etc why and call her out for the ***** she is too. 
You cannot hold onto someone who treats you this way and will continue to do so regardless of your ultimatums.
Go and get IC to see why you allow him to do this, you must have self esteem issues. Move on, you are worth so much more than this.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@emuna OF COURSE her boyfriend is mentally Ill, dysfunctional and an utter jerk!

How do you know he is really that bad? Because Sarah and your husband have both said he is!

Can I just point out that the point of view of Sarah and your husband regarding their significant others might not be based on reality and may be merely trash talk by two people of somewhat limited emotional intelligence?

They might be trying to out do each other with "my wife/boyfriend is so horrible that they make your wife/boyfriend look like a saint in comparison!" type of stories.

And they probably will have sex together at some point.

Your marriage counselling is, as the old saying puts it, as much use as a chocolate teapot.

There's a possibility that your husband knows you monitor his calls and is callously playing with you.

IMO that alone would be grounds for divorce.


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## emuna (Nov 1, 2016)

You bring up some interesting points. I also wonder if what she says is totally made up and is utterly just for attention. I mean, how could he really verify everything? Hmmm.




MattMatt said:


> @emuna OF COURSE her boyfriend is mentally Ill, dysfunctional and an utter jerk!
> 
> How do you know he is really that bad? Because Sarah and your husband have both said he is!
> 
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

emuna said:


> You bring up some interesting points. I also wonder if what she says is totally made up and is utterly just for attention. I mean, how could he really verify everything? Hmmm.


They're are gossiping liars and your husband is a dastard, a bounder and a cad.

You should do better, you CAN do better!


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## DonaldDuck666 (Feb 20, 2017)

emuna said:


> He's admitted to only marrying me because I got pregnant with my now 9 year old child and needed the insurance for maternity care. He never admits to her that he actually loves me. I've never heard that yet! He said that early in our dating relationship, there was an issue regarding my ex and our divorce proceedings then, and he said to her, "I wish I would have just stayed away from her".


You already have your answer. There's no fixing that mind set in a person. If I said that to another woman, I'd have ONE thing in mind. And it's not staying with my wife.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

emuna said:


> I just wanted to add that I remember texting her in July, saying "I dont know why you text and call my husband so much but its not cool to do this to a married man. This constant calling and texting seems to go beyond the boundaries of regular friendship, especially when I see that you text and call multiple times during the day and even at midnight when I'm not around. I'm not sure what is really going on, but please back off a bit".*, I caught her talking later on to my husband telling him "I wanted to send her (meaning ME) back a text saying "Wow now I know why your husband is the way he is with you, and why he likes me more than he does you" and they were both overheard laughing about that little statement. My husband was heard laughing, saying "Woooo I would have liked to see her reaction on that one". I don't find it one bit funny. not one bit. I'm so angry typing this I can't see straight. It shows a serious lack of intellect and maturity on her part.


So what??? Why does any of this even matter?? Your husband is jerking you around. Just END it already.


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