# Just found out my wife cheated



## Martinique78

I found out last night that my wife cheated on me with a guy from school.

It all started when she came home from school one day telling me about a friend that she made in her math class. She has always had guy friends and I wasn't always comfortable with it but I tried to be understanding. About a month and a half ago she went out to the bar with this guy after class for some drinks and she didn't come home till 3:15am. When she got home she was drunk and her bra was all out of wack. I asked why she was home so late and why I couldn't get ahold of her for two hours. She told me she just got caught up talking with people at the bar and that her phone died. I was extremely upset but I got over it. I questioned her the next day why her bra was not actually fastened all the way when she came home and she told me it was old and the clasp was broken and it popped when she bent down to pick up the keys she had dropped. About a week or two later she was suppose to meet a female friend at the bar and this guy ended up showing up and hung out with them all night until her friend left. Instead of leaving the same time as her friend she stayed another 20 minutes with him. When I noticed that her friend had come home I wondered where she was. She told me she was waiting to cash out. when she got home she said she lost her phone. I did the iphone tracker and it was in this guys truck at his house. Thats when I knew he was there with her and that for some reason she was in his truck. I started to accuse her of cheating and she became furious with me asking why I didn't trust her. We had fought on and off for about three weeks. She convinced me that I needed to see a doctor for the way I was acting so i did. I told them how I was feeling and the thoughts that were running through my head and that I didn't feel it was fare to my wife what I was doing. They diagnosed me with depression anxiety disease and put me on medication. It worked for a while but I was still suspicious of something going on. She fought me tooth to nail when I asked her to break off contact with this guy and I finally gave in an d allowed her to keep talking to him. One day I slipped a voice recorder in the car she took to school last week and I recorded a conversation between him and her. She was trying to convince him to come over and meet me so I could become friends with him and allow her to continue to hang out with him without me giving her **** for it. She offered to make love to him, let him eat her out and even give him a blow job if he would just agree to come over and meet me. After hearing the recording I confronted her with it and she said it was all just joking around. I decided to go talk to this guy to get the real story. At first I was outraged at him and said some pretty bad things. All he could say was sorry but he wasn't the only person involved. A day or two later I received a call from the guy she was cheating on me with. He apoligized again and told me that he knows I'm a good guy and I don't deserver this. He told me that the night they were at the bar till 3:15am she was in his truck topless and she sucked his **** while he finger ****ed her. They were going to have sex but she couldn't do it. I confronted her about everything and she said he was lieing and then she left for about 15 minutes and I finally got the truth out of her. We have two boys together and a house and I can't stand to be around her. she said everything happened because I wasn't giving her enough attention because I was working so much. We had been having problems making ends meet so I took side jobs working on cars in my garage after my normal 8 hour work day and when I wasn't in class. I just cant get over the fact that my wife of 5 years convinced me that I was the one that was ****ed up for thinking she would ever cheat on me. Now I'm lost on what to do. we were suppose to start seeing a counslor to work on our issues before i found out about everything that really happened. Now I can't even look at her without picturing her sucking that guys **** and here making the noises and faces I thought she only made with me. I hate to put my boys through all this but I don't think I will ever be able to look at her or lover her the same way. What should I do?


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## chillymorn

write her name and # on the bathroom wall .....something like for a good time call!


then kick her out.


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## SadSamIAm

I vote to move on. I don't think you will ever be able to trust her without some serious consequences for her. Move out look after yourself and your boys. Make sure she knows that you will not tolerate cheating. Stay gone for at least 3 months. 

See how she reacts. See how you feel. You might realize that you will never want her back. She might show true remorse and earn your trust again. 

If you just rug sweep this, it will never go away and you will never be able to forgive and trust her.


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## hookares

That's a cheating woman's favorite excuse.
She lives like a queen and buys every damned trinket she can imagine having. This in turn, causes the idiot to whom she's married to have to work 60 to 70 hours a week in order to finance her lifestyle which includes dating other guys and ****** at him when she's discovered.
The kids make your problem worse than it would be if the two of you had none.
Good Luck


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## TDSC60

In her mind if she got the two of you to be "friends" she could continue to f*ck him and you would not be suspicious. It is twisted logic. Now she is blaming HER cheating on you. You took on additional jobs to keep your family above water and she blames you for her cheating. Unbelievable.

She is not sorry she cheated. She is only sorry she got caught. Odds are that she will do it again anytime things are not going as she thinks they should in your marriage - and it will again be all your fault that she cheats.

She is not committed to your family, she is selfish, shows no remorse for what she has done and the pain she has caused, blames you for everything, has no respect for you as her husband, she does not even feel guilty for what she has done.

Your marriage is done. You might be able to rebuild a new marriage with her, but with her attitude, the odds are against you. You have to decide if it is worth the next 2-5 years of your life because that is how long it takes to recover from an affair and that is only if both spouses are committed 100%. It does not look like she is and it sounds like you have doubts. Some husbands can look past an affair and forgive, but they are few. I could not do that. For me infidelity is a deal breaker. That level of betrayal is the end for me. Add in all the lies and deception and there is a lot to forgive. Most guys can't do it.

Next move is up to you. See an attorney for options.


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## keko

If you share any bank accounts/credit cards, withdraw the money or remove her name.

Put all of the valuable items/documents into a safe.

Get a legal advice and divorce her. Seriously stop letting her treat you like a doormat. She is not the woman you married to, stop asking her question's and hoping she'll get better.


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## sigma1299

Find a post here by a user named Almostrecovered - any post, go to the bottom of it and in his signature are links to several threads - read them all. Start with the newbie thread. 

What you should do depends on what you want the outcome to be (assuming she's on board if you decide you want to reconcile). If you currently do not know what you want to do - which totally understandable - then do nothing until you do know. 

I would not recommend kicking her out until you have some idea of what you want the out come to be as she will likely only run to the OM - if he'll have her at this point.


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## In_The_Wind

Figure out what you want either recovery or Divorce, start working on yourself and applying the 180 to help you If she is remorseful and willing to work on the marriage then set-up some guidelines like 
no friends of the opposite sex since she cant seem to keep her hands off ie bad boundaries issues, agree to NC with current Om, find out if om has a wife gf whatever and let them know what is going on as well, agree to some type of marriage counseling, transparency in all areas phone computer etc these are things she must be willing to do if she isnt in to it then i would file and let her know how serious you are and that you consider a marriage between 2 people not 3 or more 

Good Luck


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## AngryandUsed

You have no marriage, buddy.

Kick her out. Sorry you have house and kids with her.

As Sigma1299 said, read the links under AlmostRecovered's signature.


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## SRN

I hate to say it, but its more that just what the OM is telling you. She's slept with the guy. Her phone in his truck at his place? Don't kid yourself.
Kick her out. NOW. File for divorce and see if that knocks her out of the fog she's in. Document everything so that you can fight for the kids.
Your marriage is over, through no fault of your own. If you want to try and fight for it, you have to realize that it has to be something new and different. But working through the affair has to be a commitment made by both parties. If she's not interested, then you can't make her do anything. And as you said, you're having issues dealing with what she's done. Personally, I knew I could never get past that. I'm still struggleing with those thoughts about what my ex did (and is probably still doing) with the OM and undoubtably will for months. If you think you can push those aside and work though this, you're a stronger man than most.


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## iheartlife

Martinique78 said:


> Ishe said everything happened because I wasn't giving her enough attention because I was working so much.


Think long and hard about what she has said to you.

Rather than come to you in a loving way and say, let's sit down and work on a budget so you don't have to work so hard

or, honey, can we brainstorm a way for me to make extra money so we can make ends meet but still spend time together

or, sweetie, how about we cancel cable or some other luxury for a while until we get our heads above water, 

or, I feel like I never get 5 minutes to talk to you, you're the love of my life and I miss you now that you are working so hard....

she goes out and spends MORE of your money and tells (one? two? it was hard to keep track) men that she is available for sex anytime, just name the place. 

When she's caught, the first thing she does is make you think you're crazy.
When she's caught again, the next thing she does is blame you.

This is someone whose moral compass is so far underwater that it may be she never had one. I know it is shocking that you married this person who has been taken over by demons or an alien invasion, but you have to deal with the reality of precisely what her ACTIONS are going forward, and not some dream from the past.

Do you have children? Sorry if I missed a mention of them. (Breaking up your responses into paragraphs helps us read the details you want to share.)


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## bryanp

1. Expose the affair to her family
2. Get tested for STD's
3. Get a good lawyer
She is a real piece of work. She says she will let him eat her out and she will give him another blow job if he meets you so she can continue the screwing around with him and making you look like a fool. She has no respect for you or your marriage whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Shaggy

Expose it to friends and family

As you go through this - remember what was on the VAR and how easily she lied to you. Do NOT trust anything she says for quite a while.

My advice is to divorce her. Any woman who would do this to you has no love or respect for you. She actually was enticing her lover to become your friend so she could continue have sex with him. That's beyond cheating - that's humiliating and cruel. I don't see how you could ever be with someone who has so much hate for you and your feelings.

But..

Next: IF she wants R - NO more nights/days out without you. None. She used that freedom to hookup and have sex. That freedom is gone. No more study groups outside the house - she can host them at your place.

If she can't live with that consequence - then file immediately for divorce. Do not negotiate with her.

Do not trust her not to continue cheating underground - watch her like a hawk for the next year or two.


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## Martinique78

Thanks everyone, It's been a busy morning already. She will not leave me alone. She keeps wanting me to not leave her and she says she is willing to do whatever it takes to make things work between us. I on the other hand know myself and know I will never be able to look at her the same way. What she did was just pure evil. This morning after I got to work she sent me a text sayin "F-this life, i don't deserve to live" I got really worried because she is at home with my kids so I sent the neighbor over to check up on her but she was fine. Just sitting on the couch crying. I turned the tracker off on my iphone and she accused me of doing it so I could get revenge by having sex with another girl without her knowing it. I told her that unlike her sex is something special to me that I don't just give out like candy or use to fill some void in my life. So even after everything she did she doesn't want me doing anything. We were suppose to go out of town for the weekend...the first time in 3 years without the kids...but thats shot and shes upset that I'm not willing to use that time to work things out. I think it is way to soon for something like that.


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## keko

Martinique78 said:


> Thanks everyone, It's been a busy morning already. *She will not leave me alone. She keeps wanting me to not leave her and she says she is willing to do whatever it takes to make things work between us*. I on the other hand know myself and know I will never be able to look at her the same way. What she did was just pure evil. This morning after I got to work she sent me a text sayin "F-this life, i don't deserve to live" I got really worried because she is at home with my kids so I sent the neighbor over to check up on her but she was fine. Just sitting on the couch crying. I turned the tracker off on my iphone and she accused me of doing it so I could get revenge by having sex with another girl without her knowing it. I told her that unlike her sex is something special to me that I don't just give out like candy or use to fill some void in my life. So even after everything she did she doesn't want me doing anything. We were suppose to go out of town for the weekend...the first time in 3 years without the kids...but thats shot and shes upset that I'm not willing to use that time to work things out. I think it is way to soon for something like that.


That's obvious. You're working your a55 off to support her. If you divorce her who's going to give her money to screw other men?


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## SadSamIAm

Martinique78 said:


> Thanks everyone, It's been a busy morning already. She will not leave me alone. She keeps wanting me to not leave her and she says she is willing to do whatever it takes to make things work between us. I on the other hand know myself and know I will never be able to look at her the same way. What she did was just pure evil. This morning after I got to work she sent me a text sayin "F-this life, i don't deserve to live" I got really worried because she is at home with my kids so I sent the neighbor over to check up on her but she was fine. Just sitting on the couch crying. I turned the tracker off on my iphone and she accused me of doing it so I could get revenge by having sex with another girl without her knowing it. I told her that unlike her sex is something special to me that I don't just give out like candy or use to fill some void in my life. So even after everything she did she doesn't want me doing anything. We were suppose to go out of town for the weekend...the first time in 3 years without the kids...but thats shot and shes upset that I'm not willing to use that time to work things out. I think it is way to soon for something like that.


It is definitely too soon. She needs to feel the pain. She needs to realize that you won't tolerate cheating. 

You have a decision to make. Either you leave and move on. Time might bring you back together, maybe not. Or you decide to stay with a bunch of work ahead of you and a bunch of rules in place that will help you heal and trust (no passwords to email/phone, marriage counseling, etc.)


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## CH

Still zero remorse from her. Don't back down from your current position or else she'll see weakness and pounce on it. She can't own up to it, F her.


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## warlock07

Martinique78 said:


> Thanks everyone, It's been a busy morning already. She will not leave me alone. * She keeps wanting me to not leave her and she says she is willing to do whatever it takes to make things work between us.* I on the other hand know myself and know I will never be able to look at her the same way. What she did was just pure evil. This morning after I got to work she sent me a text sayin "F-this life, i don't deserve to live" I got really worried because she is at home with my kids so I sent the neighbor over to check up on her but she was fine. Just sitting on the couch crying. I turned the tracker off on my iphone and she accused me of doing it so I could get revenge by having sex with another girl without her knowing it. I told her that unlike her sex is something special to me that I don't just give out like candy or use to fill some void in my life. So even after everything she did she doesn't want me doing anything. We were suppose to go out of town for the weekend...the first time in 3 years without the kids...but thats shot and shes upset that I'm not willing to use that time to work things out. I think it is way to soon for something like that.


I was about to warn you about this before even reading your post. Of course, she wants you back. The OM did dump her like a sack of sh1t. He does not want her. So obviously she will want you, the back up guy to be there for her. She wanted him to be friends with you so that she could keep [email protected] him? 
That is horrible.

Don't make a hasty decision though. Take your time and see if there is anything worth saving in the marriage. See if you can trust her again. See if her words match her actions. Her next affair guy might not be so generous with information.


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## sandc

Divorce her and move on. You deserve better.


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## happyman64

Martinique,

Your wife needs counselling.

she has self-esteem issues and boundary issues.
I imagine she has friends that are toxic to your marriage as well.

You already know how bad she lies and makes you feel like you are the crazy person in the relationship.

Normally I would say divorce and move on but you have children and your pretty emotional right now.

Time. 

Time is on your side. Take the time to think what you want from your marriage with her. Ask yourself if you feel she can be a good person, wife and mother again.

Do not make any hasty decisions right now until your emotions have calmed down and you can think clearly.

Let her know this is what you need from her. Time to clear your head.

Let her know what boundaries are out in place in your relationship so you can feel safe being with her.

No more nights out at the bar.
No male friends.
No toxic friends that are toxic to your marriage.
You need transparency on all her correspondence and actions starting right now.

If she says no to any of these items you have your answer.

Keep posting here and let us know how you are doing. Do not get angry with her. It will only make the home situation worse.

Do not leave you home or children. This could be used against you if you decide to divorce.

Time is on your side now. Use it well.

Remember, her affair is her fault. Problems in the marriage are both of yours to own. Supporting your family by working hard is your responsibility. Her responsibility is to support you as you support the family.


HM64


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## Machiavelli

SadSamIAm said:


> Move out look after yourself and your boys. Make sure she knows that you will not tolerate cheating. Stay gone for at least 3 months.


OH, HELL NO! Under no circumstances do you move out. If there is any moving to be done she'll do it. How old are y'all?

Were you her first?

Interesting that she considers having a guy go down on her is a special treat for the guy.

You need to go to a blog called "Married Man Sex Life" and one called "Chateau Heartiste" and start reading. That's about the fastest way to bring you up to speed on how to try to get the lid back on pandora's box.


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## iheartlife

Machiavelli said:


> OH, HELL NO! Under no circumstances do you move out. If there is any moving to be done she'll do it. How old are y'all?
> 
> Were you her first?
> 
> Interesting that she considers having a guy go down on her is a special treat for the guy.
> 
> You need to go to a blog called "Married Man Sex Life" and one called "Chateau Heartiste" and start reading. That's about the fastest way to bring you up to speed on how to try to get the lid back on pandora's box.


Yes, do NOT leave the house without a lawyer's advice; then YOU are the one who legally abandoned the marriage.


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## Machiavelli

Martinique78 said:


> I turned the tracker off on my iphone and she accused me of doing it so I could get revenge by having sex with another girl without her knowing it.


This is what she fears most and it's visceral: you find another woman or two and move on and it's a double whammy; not only does it threaten her lifestyle, but you may have kids with the new relationship and that will water down your provision for her kids. All a programmed genetic response.


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## turnera

Don't make hasty decisions when you are emotional. Take care of legal/financial issues so she can't clean you out but, aside from that, just breathe. 

If she is willing to never see this guy again, you can demand:
She gives you the passwords to her phone and computer so you can check them to see if she is cheating again.
She writes him a No Contact letter that YOU approve and send.
She willingly hands you her phone whenever you ask for it, if you trigger and need reassurance.
She finds and gets an appointment for a 'marriage-friendly' psychologist for you to go to together to get to the root of what happened.
She tells her parents what she did, with you present, so that, down the road, if she tries to lie to them and blame you, they'll know the truth. (this step also helps her achieve humility, which is VITAL for any cheater to learn from their mistakes and learn not to do it again - no one wants their parents to disapprove of them)

If she refuses to do these things, call her parents and siblings and tell them what she did. Then wait a week to see what happens.

If nothing improves, if she still sees him, go ahead and file for separation. But no matter what you do, do NOT move out of your house! (trust me)


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## Almostrecovered

links that sigma referred to are in my signature


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## TDSC60

warlock07 said:


> I was about to warn you about this before even reading your post. Of course, she wants you back. The OM did dump her like a sack of sh1t. He does not want her. So obviously she will want you, the back up guy to be there for her. She wanted him to be friends with you so that she could keep [email protected] him?
> That is horrible.
> 
> Don't make a hasty decision though. Take your time and see if there is anything worth saving in the marriage. See if you can trust her again. See if her words match her actions. Her next affair guy might not be so generous with information.


:iagree:

Plus have you come to the realization that your wife was the pursuer here? She was the one going after this guy. She was the one lying to you and telling you you are crazy for suspecting her of cheating. She was the one who offered a variety of sexual activity to him if he would only come over and meet you to calm your fears so they could continue unimpeded. 

I think they have had intercourse. I think she left for 15 min. after you attempted to confront her so she could call him and get the stories straight. Remember - cheaters lie - even when confronted with evidence, cheaters will lie to make their actions seem not as bad. By some stupid, twisted, logic they don't think that topless blow jobs and finger f*cking is as bad as intercourse.

I see that the mind movies are going to be a huge problem for you (me too). How can you kiss those lips again without seeing them wrapped around another man's penis in your mind? How can you be with her in a passionate sexual way without seeing her topless (and probably bottomless) climbing all over this guy and him on her? Not many men can get over this.


Take some time to think about what you want. How you feel this has to pay out. Then act.

BTW, she wants to make it work because the OM has decided that he does not want the drama that comes with a cheating married woman with kids. Now she is back to her second choice - you.


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## mickle

I know I will be the only one, but if you keep being suspicious any partner man or girl will eventually think I am not trusted, so why not. 
I think taping her and using electronic surveillance to find her phone is the lowest of the low. Trust is an important part of any relationship, you must have very low self esteem to have constantly questioned her. Whatever the ultimate conclusion is you need one to one counselling to overcome you inability to trust.

Otherwise you will be in the same position in the future with another partner.

If you want to save this relationship, you both need individual counselling and joint counselling and start with a clean slate.


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## Shaggy

First rule: do not negotiate with a cheat, she will try to push you into negotiating with her. Refuse.

She will swing between poor me and it's all your fault

She will try drama to get you to loose your cool so that she isn't the only bad guy

You need to have a var on you anytime you talk with her for the next while. Both to protect you if she claims you do something nasty, and to record what's she says so you can hear her words and tone later on when you are thinking.

As for going away, maybe you should go and tell her you need the time alone to think.

See an attorney ASAP to find out your options.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SRN

Martinique78 said:


> Thanks everyone, It's been a busy morning already. She will not leave me alone. She keeps wanting me to not leave her and she says she is willing to do whatever it takes to make things work between us. I on the other hand know myself and know I will never be able to look at her the same way. What she did was just pure evil. This morning after I got to work she sent me a text sayin "F-this life, i don't deserve to live" I got really worried because she is at home with my kids so I sent the neighbor over to check up on her but she was fine. Just sitting on the couch crying. I turned the tracker off on my iphone and she accused me of doing it so I could get revenge by having sex with another girl without her knowing it. I told her that unlike her sex is something special to me that I don't just give out like candy or use to fill some void in my life. So even after everything she did she doesn't want me doing anything. We were suppose to go out of town for the weekend...the first time in 3 years without the kids...but thats shot and shes upset that I'm not willing to use that time to work things out. I think it is way to soon for something like that.


Dude, she is action packed with issues! Don't play the game. It's good you're standing your ground. Don't give in, too many of us do or did (me included). 



TDSC60 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Plus have you come to the realization that your wife was the pursuer here? She was the one going after this guy. She was the one lying to you and telling you you are crazy for suspecting her of cheating. She was the one who offered a variety of sexual activity to him if he would only come over and meet you to calm your fears so they could continue unimpeded.


This is just sinister. I read that too and just couldn't beleive that she did this. What a horrible human being. An oxygen theif!



> I see that the mind movies are going to be a huge problem for you (me too). How can you kiss those lips again without seeing them wrapped around another man's penis in your mind? How can you be with her in a passionate sexual way without seeing her topless (and probably bottomless) climbing all over this guy and him on her? Not many men can get over this.


I'll concur, most men that I know, and sadly there are a number of us in my little clique, can't. Years on, even after they've entered a new relationship, they still stuggle with what their ex's did. Still have flashbacks, if you will. It's mind blowing how bad this kid of stuff will f*ck with you. And if you have an over active imagination (like I unfortunately do) it'll sometimes just freeze you in your tracks with painful visions. I've said it before, if they could weaponize the pain that this causes, it'd be better than any WMD in the world.


> Now she is back to her second choice - you.


No man deserves this from his _wife_. No man. You should always be number one.



Shaggy said:


> First rule: do not negotiate with a cheat, she will try to push you into negotiating with her. Refuse.


Think of them as emotional terrorists.


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## Martinique78

mickle said:


> I know I will be the only one, but if you keep being suspicious any partner man or girl will eventually think I am not trusted, so why not.
> I think taping her and using electronic surveillance to find her phone is the lowest of the low. Trust is an important part of any relationship, you must have very low self esteem to have constantly questioned her. Whatever the ultimate conclusion is you need one to one counselling to overcome you inability to trust.
> 
> Otherwise you will be in the same position in the future with another partner.
> 
> If you want to save this relationship, you both need individual counselling and joint counselling and start with a clean slate.


Apparently you didn't read the whole story...the sexual acts between them happened before I even suggested anything was going on...2 weeks after to be exact. So she had already done the acts and hid them before I even became suspicious. Then she made me out to be the bad guy for wanting her to cut off contact with this "friend" because I had nothing to worry about because she knows where her heart is and she would never do anything to hurt me I'm 1000000 years. Get you facts straight before you decide to call someone insecure and needs counseling.


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## mickle

*No man deserves this from his wife. No man. You should always be number one.* 

I think this comments says it all.Over this side of the pond no one would treat a Wife or husband the way that you do. Its not about money, its a breakdown in relationship, you fell in love with that woman warts and all, she fell in love with you including every bad habit you have.

You lot seem to sue everyone, irrespective of what proportion each is to blame. None of us are given guidelines on marriage or bringing up children, we just mubble along like our parents did most of us with a bit of give and take, manage to finish our days with the love of our dreams. None of us is perfect, we all make mistakes inside and outside a marriage. I know that my wife is a rubbish driver, whatever she may say. but I bite my tongue. So does she when I adopt the cave man stance. love your wife she is unique to you.


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## Shaggy

Martinique78 said:


> Apparently you didn't read the whole story...the sexual acts between them happened before I even suggested anything was going on...2 weeks after to be exact. So she had already done the acts and hid them before I even became suspicious. Then she made me out to be the bad guy for wanting her to cut off contact with this "friend" because I had nothing to worry about because she knows where her heart is and she would never do anything to hurt me I'm 1000000 years. Get you facts straight before you decide to call someone insecure and needs counseling.


You did good here and don't feel any guilt for doing what needed to be done to open her lies. In marriage there is no secrecy. None. Especially in relationships that work. Too many people think you treat your spouse by the same rules you treat your parents. You don't. Spouses should be open books to one another.

Some people naively think that trust == accepting secrecy. It doesn't. Breaking through secrets also isn't breaking trust, it is refusing to accept secrecy by your partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

He's insecure because he was betrayed!!!!!

Stop trying to place blame on the one who doesn't deserve it!


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## lovelygirl

Oh my God!! Sorry, but what a ***** your wife is!
What an evilish cheater!!!! 
Remember the fact that she was a good liar and she still could be in the future so how on earth you think you can trust her FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES TOGETHER??
Do you REALLY think this would be her LAST deviance from marriage?
You've got a whole life ahead of you and everytime she's unsatisfied because of you, she'll find OM. 
Just get a D and happily move on!


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## AngryandUsed

Stay strong, OP.

Cheaters use that type of tactics to keep up the dialogue and bargaining and ultimately find a way in.

If you decide to go in for R, there are a lot of things to do. She has not been remorseful. I think she has not got into the guilt stage yet. She is sorry she was caught.

Stay firm.


----------



## the guy

:iagree:

Your WW is still thinking only of her self, hence the "I hate life" and " I don't want to live....it seems to me that there are alot of "I's" coming out of her mouth.

There is no remorse yet, and for now she'e upset that she got caught and "I can't have my fun" kind of thinking.

Ask her to leave and take some time to think and observe. Even is she refuses it will make a strong statement that you will not tolorate her behavior and are confident to move on. If she does leave then continue to observe her behavior. Any way you may find her unhealthy behavior to continue and this will show you alot about her choices and were she stand in her marriage.

Educate your self and start reading up on this infidelity crap, journel and vent here. If you are lucky enough to see a positive change from her in the following months then readdress your stance. But now is the time she need to set up an appointment with IC and MC, staying out of bars and no more GNO, and start concerning her self on healing you.

If you don't see these kinds of actions, then its all talk and you will know what your next step will be, in fact it will be easier for you in taking that step.

In short its all about her action and what she does now to repair this fragile marriage, this my friend will be the indicator on what you will need to do.

And by all means continue with your investigation with the GPS and VAR, you will need this information to make the right dicision for you and your kids future.


----------



## the guy

Be prepared this is a very addictive behavior and in most cases she will continue to sleep around, not now of in the next few weeks or even month, but years from now she coud relaps if she does not get the help she needs.

Has she sent a no contact letter to OM, and has she expsoed her behavior to her MOM and dad?

Again these are some of step she needs to do in owning her crap.

One more thing "there are other involved" statement by the OM is a big sign in that your WW has a personal diorder that *she* needs to really look at. If she doesn't then you know the steps you need to take.


----------



## Why Not Be Happy?

Remember: Do not leave your house and kids!


----------



## bandit.45

Until your skank wife starts showing true remorse you should:

1) Follow the link below my post here to the 180. This plan is a dandy for helping you to achieve some empotional stability during this hell-ride. It will also help you break free from her emotional manipulation and concentrate on your own well-being. 

2) Take out half of all the money from your bank accounts and put them in a separate checking account under your name. Start having your pay deposited into this account so she cannot access it.

3) Call all your credit card companies and cancel all your CCs today.

4) Go see a lawyer and find out what your rights and options are.

5) Tell the wife you not helping her with money for any more schooling until she goes to IC or MC and starts straightening up her act. 

6) Get to the doctor and get tested for STDs. While you are there, ask him to put you on a mild antidepressesnt to keep you calmer. 

If I were you, I would file for divorce now. Having her served with papers may knock her out of this juvenile fantasy she is in and make her see clearly what she stands to lose. Later on, if she starts to show some remorse, you can call the divorce off or postpone it. 

Let her know in no uncertain terms that the marriage is on hold, and that all the priveleges she used to enjoy as a wife with you are on hold also. Do the 180.


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## bryanp

If the roles were reversed I bet she would be with an attorney right now. Again after having sex with him and putting your health at risk for STD's she still said he could do oral sex on her and she would do it on him if he just met you so she could continue to play you for a fool. This is pure evil. Do you feel special and proud that she is your wife?
You sound like a good guy who deserves a great deal more. She is trying to keep the gravy train going. Enough is enough. Good luck.


----------



## Beowulf

mickle said:


> *No man deserves this from his wife. No man. You should always be number one.*
> 
> I think this comments says it all.Over this side of the pond no one would treat a Wife or husband the way that you do. Its not about money, its a breakdown in relationship, you fell in love with that woman warts and all, she fell in love with you including every bad habit you have.
> 
> You lot seem to sue everyone, irrespective of what proportion each is to blame. None of us are given guidelines on marriage or bringing up children, we just mubble along like our parents did most of us with a bit of give and take, manage to finish our days with the love of our dreams. None of us is perfect, we all make mistakes inside and outside a marriage. I know that my wife is a rubbish driver, whatever she may say. but I bite my tongue. So does she when I adopt the cave man stance. love your wife she is unique to you.


Who are you the OP's wife? There are many betrayed spouses who have come here for advice from "across the pond." Maybe they come here because all they have at home is you lot trying to blame them for why their partners can't stay faithful.

OP, you need to let things settle so that you have control of your emotions. But I think you are being trickle truth'd big time. Follow the advice you're getting here (well except for mickle). These people know what they're talking about.


----------



## Chaparral

SadSamIAm said:


> I vote to move on. I don't think you will ever be able to trust her without some serious consequences for her. Move out look after yourself and your boys. Make sure she knows that you will not tolerate cheating. Stay gone for at least 3 months.
> 
> See how she reacts. See how you feel. You might realize that you will never want her back. She might show true remorse and earn your trust again.
> 
> If you just rug sweep this, it will never go away and you will never be able to forgive and trust her.


NEVER leave your house, you will be ruled as abandoning your family and screwed when it comes to custody. For now do the 180, work on yourself, exercise alot, go the doctor for some meds to help you get throug the roughest spots.

Do not make any life changing decisions until you have had time to consider everything calmly. 

As far as separateing, that almost always leads to divorce. If you can, go to Individual counseling. 

Sorry you are here but you have a lot to consider and many options.


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## Chaparral

mickle said:


> *No man deserves this from his wife. No man. You should always be number one.*
> 
> I think this comments says it all.Over this side of the pond no one would treat a Wife or husband the way that you do. Its not about money, its a breakdown in relationship, you fell in love with that woman warts and all, she fell in love with you including every bad habit you have.
> 
> You lot seem to sue everyone, irrespective of what proportion each is to blame. None of us are given guidelines on marriage or bringing up children, we just mubble along like our parents did most of us with a bit of give and take, manage to finish our days with the love of our dreams. None of us is perfect, we all make mistakes inside and outside a marriage. I know that my wife is a rubbish driver, whatever she may say. but I bite my tongue. So does she when I adopt the cave man stance. love your wife she is unique to you.


Don't go away mad.


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## morituri

Pay no attention to the poster(s) who don't read all your comments on your thread and then make ridiculous statements that are way off base. Luckily 99% of the advice given to you has been on the mark and will help you to cope with the ordeal and to move on with your life no matter what you decide.


----------



## TRy

Martinique78 said:


> I decided to go talk to this guy to get the real story. At first I was outraged at him and said some pretty bad things. All he could say was sorry but he wasn't the only person involved.


 The OM just told you that he was not the only one having sex with your wife. Have you found out who the others were?


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## Entropy3000

mickle said:


> I know I will be the only one, but if you keep being suspicious any partner man or girl will eventually think I am not trusted, so why not.
> I think taping her and using electronic surveillance to find her phone is the lowest of the low. Trust is an important part of any relationship, you must have very low self esteem to have constantly questioned her. Whatever the ultimate conclusion is you need one to one counselling to overcome you inability to trust.
> 
> Otherwise you will be in the same position in the future with another partner.
> 
> If you want to save this relationship, you both need individual counselling and joint counselling and start with a clean slate.


So looking after your spouse is lower than betrayal? Huh? 

Marriage is about love and respect. Trust is a by-product. Trust is earned. Blind trust is lazy and naive. And a bit of ambivalence for sure. But you did nto bother to actually read this thread or you would have seen there was reason to look further.


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## jnj express

Hey Mart.-----It's like this---your children's mother, doesn't get a say in what happens, how it happens, or anything else.

You lay down the law, you tell her how things will be, and if she doesn't like it---toooo F"ing bad.

If you wanna R, with your children's mother-----you set the boundaries, you give her ACTIONABLE consequences, NOT WORDS---You make her sign a POST--NUP.---she goes completely transparent----she comes home immediately from class or work, or whereever she is---she becomes a mother and wife----and if you say jump---HER ANSWER IS HOW HIGH.

No vacations, no good times, just proper wife and mother activities---no mar bar, no more drinking, no more out with ANY KIND OF FRIENDS!!!!!

She MUST be accountable, show remorse, be contrite, and be transparent---and do ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING TO GET BACK INTO THE FAMILY

You do not be mr. nice--guy---and there is no lovey--dovey for now

I know it is hard for you---to look at her, to even wanna talk to her, and to wanna touch her---knowing she has allowed some other man/men---to have her, and her body----If you can't get by this---there probably won't be much of a mge---cuz there has to be talk, touch, and you wanting to look at and love your wife---and she has destroyed all of that

You MUST do what you need to do for YOU---not the kids, not the finances, not the relatives, and most certainly not for her---you do what is best for YOU.-----The mge., you now have is dead---whether a new one arises, from the ashes of the old, is strictly UP TO YOU.


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## OldWolf57

I guess charlie boy and camile was'nt cheating, or diana and the guard captian But we on this side of the pond saved Europe including the lil island. Sorry about the thread jack Marti, but A##es does'nt sit well with me, even if I am one.


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## Entropy3000

I think he meant across Walden pond.


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## turnera

I think he meant that SHE was just as interested in getting some as HE was.


----------



## Martinique78

TRy said:


> The OM just told you that he was not the only one having sex with your wife. Have you found out who the others were?


I don't know where you got that from but as far as I know...this was the only guy.

It's been a rough couple of days. I have been trying to keep my distance and not talk to her. Yesterday we had a doctors appointment together that we set up a few weeks ago. We have the same doctor but she agreeded to see us seperatly. The doctor saw me first and asked how I was doing on the 20mg of antidepressants she perscribed me 3 weeks ago. I told her I was starting to feel better and the horrible thoughts I was having started to go away but then the thoughts I was having turned out to be true. She was shocked and I told her that I felt I only started the medication because I didn't like feeling that I was making something out of nothing and it wasn't fare to my wife. I also asked if I should stop taking it because I felt I didn't need to mask things anymore. She told me that stopping now would probably be the worst thing to do and she actually upped my dosage to 40mg. She then went to see my wife and after my wife was done we went back home and she was crying and told me that the doctor recommended that she check herself into a hospital for treatment because of some thoughts she was having. She also perscribed her abilify to control her mood. So now she is on antidepresants, abilify and needs to be checked into a hospital and shes has my kids while im at work.

Today we had some time to talk and she told me that she has felt neglected by me for years and they way she delt with it was completely wrong. I admit that I have not always been the most romantic person for her but I thought I did what I could to show her how much I loved her. For a period after my first sone was born we were not having sex...for months. I got into a bad habit of looking at porn and she found out. She brought that up today and said it hurt just as much as how she hurt me, but she didn't leave and she tried to make things work. There was also one time during a heated arguement a year or so ago that I told her that I would rather work in the garage than spend time with her. I only said that because i'm an active person. I don't watch much TV or sit around. I have very bad ADHD that doesn't allow me to focus on something I don't find interesting. All she ever wanted to do was sit and watch movies or TV. She always complained that I was in the garage too much but when I did spend time with her we didn't really have much to talk about or she was more interested in playing and texting on her phone. Here idea of quality time with me for a whole week was playing draw someting with me while we layed in bed.

She also said that she only noticed me finally becoming the husband she wanted after I started suspecting things were going on because I was around her more. I was only around her more because I wanted to make sure she wasn't talking to this guy all the time and if they did talk I wanted to know what they were talking about because I knew there was more going on than she was telling me.


I told her that she didnt have to stay with me if I was such a terrible husband. I tried to do the best I could for us but apparently it wasn't enough.

I'm going on this trip with her this weekend but only so we can talk, fight or whatever with no one else around because I cant do this in front of my kids anymore.

Did I bring this apon myself...was my neglect the reason she found herself craving the attention of another man? She told me that he would compliment her all the time and talked to her when she was lonely but then she said that the guy didn't tell me all the dirty things he would say to her because he wanted to come out looking like the good guy. I told her that she should have broke off contact with this guy as soon as anything like that started. Not continue it and allow it to go where it did. This guy may have been complimenting my wife and showing her a lot of attention but why do you think that was...not because he loved her but because he was trying to get in her pants...and it worked.


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## warlock07

she is totally gaslighting you. She is making a fool out of you.


----------



## turnera

Have you read His Needs Her Needs? It's an excellent encapsulation of how marriages should work. You two should read it together this weekend; I have a feeling it might help you two decide to work on the marriage together.

Did you bring it on yourself? Well, yeah, just like every OTHER husband in the world - and every WIFE for that matter - who goes into a marriage not realizing that it takes WORK, for LIFE. You don't just marry someone and those PEA chemicals keep floating around and make your life rosy. Life gets in the way and you take each other for granted. One of you gets upset about something, says something hurtful to the other, that one decides to not share because look at what happens, and now you're on the slippery slope down to NO communication, protecting yourself from your SPOUSE, and making choices to benefit YOU, not your marriage.

Did you do it? Yeah, but so did she. We all do. It's called human nature.

As for the complimenting, please read that book. Learn about Love Busters (how you hurt each other) and Emotional Needs (how you should do what makes your spouse feel loved). You'll see that one of her top ENs was probably admiration, and while you were taking her for granted, she found that EN being met by OM. 

So...assuming you can get the affair stopped for good, she's in for fixing the marriage and giving you transparency, you can FIX this. Read the book, and while you're there this weekend, also fill out the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires to get a better handle on what each of you wants in this marriage. That knowledge will help you BOTH become better spouses, and happy again.

You can get the questionnaires at marriagebuilders.com but avoid their forums like the plague; trust me, you do NOT want to go there with a WW.


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## the guy

M-
You made a comment on your thread when you confronted OM, and then you told us that the OM said " there were others involved".

Just to let you know that me and many others have heard the exact same thing from our wayward spouses. But at the end of the day its our wifes that have the validation issues and the lack of boundries that cause them to pay there dues for the attension they get from OM, and that due is sleeping with thier OM.

See the attention they get from OM will disappear, so they pay the due and take it to the next level. Do not blame your self for her adultory.....make no mistake you have your part for the unhealthy marriage, but you having nothing to do for your WW lack of boundries and validation issues.


----------



## sandc

Martinique78 said:


> For a period after my first sone was born we were not having sex...for months. I got into a bad habit of looking at porn and she found out. She brought that up today and said it hurt just as much as how she hurt me, but she didn't leave and she tried to make things work.


I call BS on this. :bsflag:

Looking at porn is not equivalent to cheating. Now if you had cheated on her, it would hurt as bad as cheating. But you didn't, she did. She has to own that. She's trying to manipulate you into thinking you're as bad as she is, don't fall for it.


----------



## the guy

Just so you know, your wife should be owning this crap and not making excuses for it, or blameshifting.

The sooner she sees its her own issue the sooner the both of you can heal.


----------



## Lost in Hell

M, 

I feel your pain. We seem to be in similar shoes right now. My WW hasn't dealt with her issues and as far as I know just swept everything under the rug. I was lied to, gaslighted, etc until I said enough is enough. 

Work on yourself so you can be strong for the people (kids and you) who matter the most. Stick with your plan and don't waiver.


----------



## keko

Martinique78 said:


> I'm going on this trip with her this weekend but only so we can talk, fight or whatever with no one else around because I cant do this in front of my kids anymore.


That is awarding her for her affair, can't you see this? 

If you want to fix your marriage you have to let your wife hit rock bottom. If you lend her a hand each time she slips, you're in for a life full of problems. Let her face and suffer the consequences of her affair.


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## Entropy3000

There is no equivalence of looking at porn and banging someone.


----------



## bandit.45

You may have made alot of mistakes that contributed to the state of the marriage, but the choice to engage in an affair with the other man was totally her idea and choice...not yours. 

Before you can reconcile, two things must happen:

1) Your wife must sever all ties with the OM and you must verify she has. Some TAM posters recommend having her write a "No Contact" letter or e-mail to him and sending it to him while you watch.

2) She must fully disclose all the information about the affair and stop trickle-truthing (TT) you. This only strings out the pain and causes problems down the road if you discover her treachery was worse than what she says it was.

First off, do not accept blame for her affair.

Her wayward mind, in order to shield itself from the guilt and shame for committing such a heinous act upon you and the marriage, is literally rewriting the history of your marriage. She actually believes you were a neglectful husband, although you were probably no worse than 75% of the husbands out there. 

Second, when you are on your trip this weekend, do not argue with her. If she tries to goad you into a fight, quietly tell her you are not arguing and walk away. Wait a half hour or so and go back and see if she has calmed down. If she is calm, sit her down and tell her that she has ten minutes to tell you everything, EVERYTHING, about the affair: how they met, how many times it went physical, if other people were involved, and that you will do everything you can to verify the truthfulness of what she is saying. So she might as well come completely clean. If she refuses to do so, then tell her you will assume the truth is far worse than what she has given you, that you will not tolerate lying and obfuscating, and you will move on to divorce.

You said the OM mentioned there were others involved? You need to know the extent of this also. Tell her if she does not give you full disclosure, the deal is off and you will seek divorce immediately. 

Say all of this to her in a quiet, unemotional, even tone. Do not lose your temper. 

You have to be the adult here.


----------



## Martinique78

the guy said:


> M-
> You made a comment on your thread when you confronted OM, and then you told us that the OM said " there were others involved".
> 
> Just to let you know that me and many others have heard the exact same thing from our wayward spouses. But at the end of the day its our wifes that have the validation issues and the lack of boundries that cause them to pay there dues for the attension they get from OM, and that due is sleeping with thier OM.
> 
> See the attention they get from OM will disappear, so they pay the due and take it to the next level. Do not blame your self for her adultory.....make no mistake you have your part for the unhealthy marriage, but you having nothing to do for your WW lack of boundries and validation issues.


Oh I see what you mean, What I meant to say was that I couldn't just blame him because she was just as much involved as he was.


----------



## iheartlife

As far as the state of your marriage, the reason the book turnera recommended is so good is that it will help uncover needs that your spouse has that you might not be aware of. (I also like the 5 Love Languages, which also has a free fast questionnaire on its website.) For example, my husband prefers acts of service and words of affirmation (in the 5 Love Languages model) far more than physical touch, which is a little unusual for a man. I like physical touch as one of my top two; it's unusual to have a woman prefer touch to, for example, one of my lowest ones, signs of affection.

But you are NOT to blame for the affair, and the faster you get that out of your head, the better. In marriages where both spouses feel things have gone down hill, and one spouse cheated, often (as in my case) the other spouse deliberately chose consciously NOT to cheat. It's a choice and she needs to start owning it before she is ready to really work on the marriage.

The other thing to be aware of is 'trickle truth.' WSs become very used to lying. They also decide, in the warped world they live in, that it would "hurt" you too much if you knew the full truth.

So, if there is more to her story--if she's done this before, or with others, that is something to find out RIGHT NOW. Continuing to hide a secret private life, even if "it's over," can be like a poison to marriage recovery. You don't need gory details, but you do need to know time frame / nature of the inappropriate relationship(s) / and with whom.

ALL MC, or "working on the marriage" stuff can only work in an atmosphere of TRUTH, plus ZERO contact with the OM(s) and toxic friends. Doesn't seem that you're quite there yet.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

This is textbook mindf*king.

Here is a page from the book she reading to you...

Disloyal Spouse Survival Guide...

** *Rationalization and projection of blame are an attempt to distance herself from responsibilty for and the consequences of her actions. Alternative explanations are constructed and stoutly defended

** *She blames her behavior on her significant other. She feels resentful and self-pitying about the way she considers herself to been treated and uses this to justify her action. The DS is often quite cruel in highlighting, exaggerating and exploiting any and every defect or flaw the significant other may have, or even in fabricating them out of her own mind in order to justify and rationalize her own behavior.


----------



## Martinique78

Oh and she did finally come out and tell her mom. We couldn't do it in person because they live far away. She told her that were were have a very difficult time, that she messed things up very badly and that she is on more medication and that the doctor suggested checking herself in for her hurtful thoughts. She didn't however get into the actual details as to what she did.

I decided to call her mom this morning to find out if she did actuall talk to her and she confirmed it. I asked what she knew and she responded with the same information. I told her that she will never understand the severity of the situation bus she said she doesn't want to hear any of the deatails on what happened because she doesn't know if she could handle it. I just told her that it was bad enough that I couldn't even look at her anymore. She was very upset and tried to give me some advice on staying together and working things out. At least she knows now. Her best friend across the street knows because her husband is one of my best friends and one day before all the really bad details came out I told my friend about a kiss WW and OM shared which he then relayed to his wife. We went to their house for a bonfire and at some point when I walked away his wife yelled at my wife with "what the F is wrong with you" My best friends wife was pissed because she was the one that was out with my wife when the OM showed up at the bar. Apparently my wife had asked her after meeting OM to tell me that OM was a good guy and that I had nothing to worry about.

I asked her why if she knew that day that she made a huge mistake why she wasn't on the phone the next day looking for a counselor but insted on the phone with him probably talking about the fun they had. She told me that she thought I would get supecious if all of a sudden she wanted to see a counselor and she stopped talking to OM. So instead she continued to talk to him, allowed fights between us to develop because of him and most likely continue the sexual acts between them until the day i found out. I also dont think it would have stopped if I didn't find out.

I may have been at fault for some of our issues but what she did was plain evil. Now i'm getting mind f-ed by her to make me out to be the one that drove her to what she did.


----------



## keko

Martinique78 said:


> I asked her why if she knew that day that she made a huge mistake why she wasn't on the phone the next day looking for a counselor but insted on the phone with him probably talking about the fun they had. *She told me that she thought I would get supecious if all of a sudden she wanted to see a counselor and she stopped talking to OM. *So instead she continued to talk to him, allowed fights between us to develop because of him and most likely continue the sexual acts between them until the day i found out. I also dont think it would have stopped if I didn't find out.


Friend, she is evil and shows ZERO remorse for her actions. Contact an attorney to protect yourself and your kid. 

"She is sorry she got caught, not because of her affair"


----------



## TDSC60

Martinique78 said:


> Oh and she did finally come out and tell her mom. We couldn't do it in person because they live far away. She told her that were were have a very difficult time, that she messed things up very badly and that she is on more medication and that the doctor suggested checking herself in for her hurtful thoughts. She didn't however get into the actual details as to what she did.
> 
> I decided to call her mom this morning to find out if she did actuall talk to her and she confirmed it. I asked what she knew and she responded with the same information. I told her that she will never understand the severity of the situation bus she said she doesn't want to hear any of the deatails on what happened because she doesn't know if she could handle it. I just told her that it was bad enough that I couldn't even look at her anymore. She was very upset and tried to give me some advice on staying together and working things out. At least she knows now. Her best friend across the street knows because her husband is one of my best friends and one day before all the really bad details came out I told my friend about a kiss WW and OM shared which he then relayed to his wife. We went to their house for a bonfire and at some point when I walked away his wife yelled at my wife with "what the F is wrong with you" My best friends wife was pissed because she was the one that was out with my wife when the OM showed up at the bar. Apparently my wife had asked her after meeting OM to tell me that OM was a good guy and that I had nothing to worry about.
> 
> I asked her why if she knew that day that she made a huge mistake why she wasn't on the phone the next day looking for a counselor but insted on the phone with him probably talking about the fun they had. She told me that she thought I would get supecious if all of a sudden she wanted to see a counselor and she stopped talking to OM. So instead she continued to talk to him, allowed fights between us to develop because of him and most likely continue the sexual acts between them until the day i found out. I also dont think it would have stopped if I didn't find out.
> 
> I may have been at fault for some of our issues but what she did was plain evil. Now i'm getting mind f-ed by her to make me out to be the one that drove her to what she did.


She is still hiding the entire truth from you. Most likely it has been a full blown physical affair several times. It is her script to lie to you and try to get others to support her. She is probably telling herself that she can not tell you the whole truth because you would hit the door running if she did. She is justifying her lies in the same manner that she is justifying her cheating. She continues her lies and blame-shifting. I do not see any remorse for what she did - just sorry she got caught and has to stop - for a while. She will start up again as soon as she feels safe.

And you are correct, she would not have stopped if you had not caught her. She tried to get OM to meet you so you would not be suspicious. She tried to get the BF to talk to you about OM and what a great guy he was so you would not be suspicious. She did everything she could think of to turn aside your suspicions so she could continue to have sex with OM.

Now she is blaming everything she did on your supposed bad behavior as a husband. This is BS.

Sorry but she is nowhere near being ready for true R. She may never be. If she has thoughts of self injury, they probably are from the regret, anger, and remorse that her little fantasy life of a single unmarried party girl has ended for now.

Go on your trip and have fun. Forget about trying to talk to her. She is not ready. 

You might want to talk to your BF who is the husband of wife's BF. See if he is willing to get more of the truth from her. I'm betting she knows more than you think. Not saying she was supporting the affair, but maybe some times and dates that she had no reason to suspect before take on a new significance now.


----------



## the guy

She has along way to go, both of you do, but if the right steps are taken you can heal. The process now is what you want to do and what she is doing to to fix her self, with or with out you.

So please give your self the time to wiegh this all out. It took a list of pros and cons, and lucky for my fWW the pros for keeping her around was longer.

For now both of you should be reading and educating your self about affairs and infidelity, So often it gets swept under the rug and nothing changes in the marriage and someone " messes things up really bad" again....maybe years down the road.

Don't let her hid from this. Face this head on and let her face one of many consequences by dealing with the shame and humilation.

The main thing here is maintence in the marriage and maintence as individuals that will prevent this from happening again.


----------



## Shaggy

Notice how each and every time she chose to cheat, chose to continue with him, chose to ... 

IT IS ALWAYS YOUR FAULT?

First, don't accept this. Just repeat to you and her - "But it was all your choice to cheat"

Until she actually says "I was wrong. I chose wrong, and I wish I could undo it. And I hate the OM and will never talk with him again" ... Well she's not owning the affair, and she's not back working on the marriage. Instead she's blameshifting and justifying her choice to cheat - which is another way of saying "Still believing that affair was right for her"


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## bryanp

I don't think you can give your wife an STD from watching Porn, but she can give you an STD by her engaging in oral sex with her lover.


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## In The Dark

bandit.45 said:


> You may have made alot of mistakes that contributed to the state of the marriage, but the choice to engage in an affair with the other man was totally her idea and choice...not yours.
> 
> Before you can reconcile, two things must happen:
> 
> 1) Your wife must sever all ties with the OM and you must verify she has. Some TAM posters recommend having her write a "No Contact" letter or e-mail to him and sending it to him while you watch.
> 
> 2) She must fully disclose all the information about the affair and stop trickle-truthing (TT) you. This only strings out the pain and causes problems down the road if you discover her treachery was worse than what she says it was.
> 
> First off, do not accept blame for her affair.
> 
> Her wayward mind, in order to shield itself from the guilt and shame for committing such a heinous act upon you and the marriage, is literally rewriting the history of your marriage. She actually believes you were a neglectful husband, although you were probably no worse than 75% of the husbands out there.
> 
> Second, when you are on your trip this weekend, do not argue with her. If she tries to goad you into a fight, quietly tell her you are not arguing and walk away. Wait a half hour or so and go back and see if she has calmed down. If she is calm, sit her down and tell her that she has ten minutes to tell you everything, EVERYTHING, about the affair: how they met, how many times it went physical, if other people were involved, and that you will do everything you can to verify the truthfulness of what she is saying. So she might as well come completely clean. If she refuses to do so, then tell her you will assume the truth is far worse than what she has given you, that you will not tolerate lying and obfuscating, and you will move on to divorce.
> 
> You said the OM mentioned there were others involved? You need to know the extent of this also. Tell her if she does not give you full disclosure, the deal is off and you will seek divorce immediately.
> 
> Say all of this to her in a quiet, unemotional, even tone. Do not lose your temper.
> 
> You have to be the adult here.


Martinque,

Listen to this advice. These guys know what they are talking about. Especially point #2 which I wish I had done. 

Don't let her shift this onto you. I'm stealing this from this site but you accept 50% of the problems in the marriage but she has to accept 100% of the decision to cheat. 

It's like telling the police that it was okay to rob the bank because you didn't have enough money to pay the electrical bill when in reality, you could have gotten an extra job, found something legit to pawn, bought some candles, etc. People make choices and you can't justify making bad ones.


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## Martinique78

The true irony here is that the last few days I have been talking a lot more on the phone and through text with friends and family about what is going on and almost every time she asks me who I'm talking to. Now she is the one who is worried I'm talking to another girl because she knows that's what she was always doing on her phone.


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## keko

Martinique78 said:


> The true irony here is that the last few days I have been talking a lot more on the phone and through text with friends and family about what is going on and almost every time she asks me who I'm talking to. Now she is the one who is worried I'm talking to another girl because she knows that's what she was always doing on her phone.


Blameshifting at its finest.


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## the guy

Again it all about her.................

Tell her "since you aren't helping me heal I'm finding support from poeple that truely love me"

She doesn't get it!

God what this women will say to make it feel better for her self.....freaking amazing!!!!!!!!


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## the guy

Remarks that your wife make, lead me to believe that her affair will continue.


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## TDSC60

Maybe I missed it, but has she been checked for STDs? 

You should not even think about sex with her (probably the last thing on your mind at this time) until you see test results from a Doctor and verification that she is not pregnant Actually, it is probably a good idea to abstain until you have made up your mind if you want to stay with her or dump her.

Do you really want to go on the trip with her at this point? If not,
and you can not get your money back, then tell her you need to go alone for some time to think about what she has done to you and decide what your next steps will be best for you.


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## the guy

Then bug her car with a VAR and a GPS and see how she behaves her self.


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## Martinique78

I already had sex with her after the first act had already happened before I knew about it because the first act was a month and a half ago...and I kissed her I don't know how many times...ugh I feel sick just thinking about it. I plan to get myself tested for sure because I have a rare blood type and I donate regularly and it's something I get a lot of joy out of doing and I would hate to not be able to do that anymore. 

The trip we have planned is actually so she can attend her sisters wedding shower...how ****ed up is that...so she has to go. I plan on just dropping her off and taking the car for some alone time away from home. The kids will be with my mom so they are taken care of.


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## jnj express

Isn't it ironic---you get accused of not paying enuff attention to your children's mother, and she demonizes you, and justifies her A.

The not paying enuff attention, more than likely also stems from you working at your job, does she for some reason think, that you did not have to work, that you did not have to devote a reasonable amount of time to the job, that pays for her to enjoy her life, eat, go to school, drive a car, have a cellphone, have a home, have kids, have vacations, have a life----does she think MONEY GROWS ON TREES-----unfortunately it doesn't and most normal people gotta go out and spend 8 hours a day working, plus time going to, and from work----and she uses that as reasoning to accuse you of not paying enuff attention to her----you just cannot win!!!!!!!


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## Kallan Pavithran

She cheated you, lied to you, she wanted others to lie to you and make OM a nice guy. What she did to heal your pain?

If she needed a stable marriage she should help you to heal, because by her conscious choice she had sex with Om and made you believe that you are sick and send you to doctor. 

If a wife realized what she did was horrible and she want to salvage her family from dying due to her cheating will understand the need for crawling back and asking for forgiveness to her husband, but here what she is doing she is still blame shifting and gas lighting you. Why she didn't told her mother everything, why she hide the main part the cheating from her mother, why she didn't asked you to be present there when she talked to her mother? Did she send an NC letter approved by you?

Are you sure that what OM said to you is complete truth? what epiphany he had to reveal complete truth to you? was it a plan your wife and OM derived to keep you away from complete truth and say something they believe you can forgive easily so that they can continue their affair after few weeks when you calm down?

Your wife still don't feel that what she did was wrong so she don't feel any remorse, if she wanted to realise it she should really feel the loss of her security blanket and her fall back option that is you and her family. else she will never realize what she did and you can never see a remorseful and a wife who want to really salvage her marriage. to wake her from her fantasy world and to realize what a horrible thing she did to you she should get a shock, a shock which she think you can never give her that is a D paper. Give it to her.

A husband who work hard for meeting the needs of his family and wife dont deserve this, you deserve better, a happy and peaceful life.

Did you asked her for a polygraph test?


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## dymo

Nothing you did justifies what she did. Even if she did feel you were neglecting her, she could have told you before going off to suck off the OM. 

With cheaters, a little bit of history rewriting can tend to happen. Keep that in mind.



Kallan Pavithran said:


> Did you asked her for a polygraph test?


If they're divorcing, a polygraph is a waste of money. What he knows is enough. If they R it's a different story.


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## Martinique78

She has told me in the past that she has felt neglected by me and I have tried to make things better but with work and side work and both of us going to school plus two kids and now baby sitter till recently we never had time from us to really focus on each other. I know I could have probably done more but I never thought it would cause her to do this.


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## keko

Martinique78 said:


> She has told me in the past that she has felt neglected by me and I have tried to make things better but with work and side work and both of us going to school plus two kids and now baby sitter till recently we never had time from us to really focus on each other. I know I could have probably done more but I never thought it would cause her to do this.


Nothing you did caused her to cheat. She CHOSE to cheat. Stop accepting blames for her adultery.


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## TDSC60

Martinique78 said:


> She has told me in the past that she has felt neglected by me and I have tried to make things better but with work and side work and both of us going to school plus two kids and now baby sitter till recently we never had time from us to really focus on each other. I know I could have probably done more but I never thought it would cause her to do this.


It did not cause her to do anything. This is her trying to justify what she has done. Do not fall for it. Like most husbands, you put the security of your family first. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This is just her excuse. She cannot admit that it happened because she WANTED it.

Look at it this way. You were denied exactly the same amount of time together as she was. Did you go looking for attention from a cute friend? Did you spend even more time away from the family to pursue a relationship with that friend?

Bottom line is she craved the attention of other men. Lots of cheating wife's will say the lack of attention at home is what led them to stray. That is BS.

The truth is that these wife's crave attention from someone NEW. They want to feel pursued. They want the thrill of having a new man chasing them. Their husband could be there 24/7 showering them with compliments and it would not matter.


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## iheartlife

Martinique78 said:


> She has told me in the past that she has felt neglected by me and I have tried to make things better but with work and side work and both of us going to school plus two kids and now baby sitter till recently we never had time from us to really focus on each other. I know I could have probably done more but I never thought it would cause her to do this.


Well, the reason you never thought it would cause her to do this is because you likely would never have done the same if you were in her shoes. I'm sure you can come up with a long list of things you would have done instead. She had LOTS of options; she just chose the most supremely selfish and hurtful one.

As I posted on the previous page, it happens in lots of marriages that spouses have unspoken needs that aren't met. In a loving marriage, that is because the 'needy' spouse isn't adequately communicating their needs. Sometimes that's because the needy spouse doesn't even KNOW what their needs are or doesn't think that speaking them aloud will help.

But you can also have a 'needy' spouse who has such a vacuum in their mind or soul that you can't fulfill their needs no matter what you do. And I suspect that's the case here.

I imagine you've mentioned this already, but I suspect your WS's biggest issue is low self-esteem. One way she's tried to boost that self-esteem is to have multiple men find her sexually attractive. Turning to risky activity to boost self-esteem is a sign that you COULDN'T have met her needs adequately NO MATTER WHAT YOU DID because she has much more serious issues in her heart / mind / soul than a lay person like you can handle.

That isn't to say that your marriage couldn't have benefited from more quality time together. It's just that you're STILL looking at this as the CAUSE of her individual ASININE CHOICE. You've got to move off this view in order for these other folks posting here to help you.

Putting it one more way:
AS LONG AS YOU BLAME YOURSELF FOR HER AFFAIR, YOU CANNOT SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE.


Sincerely, 
iheartlife
(in true R with my WS who was in a 4.5 year EA; I was primarily responsible for the status of our marriage that led my WS to CHOOSE the EA. The poor status of our marriage was mostly my fault; but the EA was 100% his--just so you know where I'm coming from!)


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## Beowulf

Martinique78 said:


> She has told me in the past that she has felt neglected by me and I have tried to make things better but with work and side work and both of us going to school plus two kids and now baby sitter till recently we never had time from us to really focus on each other. I know I could have probably done more but I never thought it would cause her to do this.


Realize that there were other ways to handle this. She chose the wrong way. My wife Morrigan is occasionally on this site. She also cheated on me. And she willingly admits she chose the wrong way as well. She atoned for her screw-ups so we are still together. If your wife won't admit her wrongdoing then that is hers to own as well.


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## turnera

Martinique78 said:


> She has told me in the past that she has felt neglected by me and I have tried to make things better but with work and side work and both of us going to school plus two kids and now baby sitter till recently we never had time from us to really focus on each other. I know I could have probably done more but I never thought it would cause her to do this.


This is the #1 issue cited by women for being unhappy in their marriages in all the years I've been doing this. Women want - NEED - interaction/conversation/attention and men expect marriages to just carry on without working at it.


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## turnera

iheartlife said:


> Well, the reason you never thought it would cause her to do this is because you likely would never have done the same if you were in her shoes.


Before you say that, please understand that soaking up attention from some person other than your spouse is intoxicating and, once those PEA chemicals start flowing, they are hard to stop. I've never gone there, but I know lots of people who SWORE they'd never cheat, but once they started getting real attention, and nice words, while their spouse took them for granted, found themselves cheating.


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## Beowulf

turnera said:


> Before you say that, please understand that soaking up attention from some person other than your spouse is intoxicating and, once those PEA chemicals start flowing, they are hard to stop. I've never gone there, but I know lots of people who SWORE they'd never cheat, but once they started getting real attention, and nice words, while their spouse took them for granted, found themselves cheating.


Yes, in a sense that was what happened with Morrigan. Except I wasn't taking her for granted. I wasn't what you would call overly emotional and she never told me how she felt. In any case, she would be the first to admit that her cheating was on her 100%. There were other ways to deal with our issues but she chose the wrong path. So did the OP's wife.


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## CantSitStill

Beowulf said:


> Yes, in a sense that was what happened with Morrigan. Except I wasn't taking her for granted. I wasn't what you would call overly emotional and she never told me how she felt. In any case, she would be the first to admit that her cheating was on her 100%. There were other ways to deal with our issues but she chose the wrong path. So did the OP's wife.


Yep same here. As your wife knows I also know I took the wrong path..Yes there were problems in our marriage but instead of dealing with them properly I ran to another man. 100 percent my fault. You two give me hope
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin

Love u CSS
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Martinique78 said:


> She has told me in the past that she has felt neglected by me and I have tried to make things better but with work and side work and both of us going to school plus two kids and now baby sitter till recently we never had time from us to really focus on each other. I know I could have probably done more but I never thought it would cause her to do this.


Does calling the other guy and offering to do sexual favors in return for being your friend include that? What she did was extremely vile. She is still minimizing and blaming you a lot of her actions. I would strongly suggest that you think a lot before even considering R with this woman. She did not cheat when drunk. She manipulated you into thinking that it was your fault when you were suspicious. That is the hardest part of all. Just imagine what is going through her mind when you were actually meeting the doctor. It will be hard to trust this woman again. So think well before you decide to R.


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## bandit.45

Do not let her manipulate you. This is an immoral, selfish woman. You did nothing wrong. 

Divorce her sorry cheatying butt and find someone who will love you and honor you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

man forget all that justifing an rationaling her action. Just remember this is a woman who would rather see you in a DRUG INDUCED coma than give up that POS. This is a woman that would rather give you AIDS, than give up this POS. Let others rationalize, YOU need to get this woman out of your life. She felt neglected, then why did'nt she come into the garage and pass you the DAMN tools so you could finish sooner and take her out. HERE you are making sure she had it all, and she felt neglected an taken for granted. Hell for all she know you could have felt that way too, having to do all these things. OK so she told you how she felt, but did she try to say, " hey we don't need this or that " Did she put her foot down and say " hey we going to dinner tonight " You don't sound like the kind of guy that beat his wife. So why did'nt she put her foot down ???


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## CantSitStill

She is only sorry for getting caught..bet she still wants to be with the OM and she's mad that you spoiled her fun..it seems to me she will do it again and again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin

I think you need to stop pulling your punches,this is freaken nuts.She is getting a kick from wiping her feet on your back,I feel she is enyoying this sh!t. She's got your [email protected] hanging off her rear view mirror,time to take em back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO

I did not read all of the other posts. But I will point out that:

1) This was not a one-time screw up. She was scheming to have even more time alone with this guy (having you meet him to gain your trust).

2) There were multiple OMs involved.

3) Given that one of the OMs called you on his own, she's lying to more people than just you.

Your wife is off-the-charts selfish and immature. She is _working towards _a life as a ****ty barfly (multiple sex partners, coming home drunk and disheveled, implicitly and explicitly trading sex for favors). You deserve a better wife.

Also, your kids deserve better too. You are working a ton of hours to support her. When she's not at school she's coming home late from the bar and screwing at least two other guys on the side - what a role model? I'll bet you are doing most if not all of the child and home upkeep on top of paying the bills.

If I were you, I would have her leave the home. Do everything you can to keep the kids as much as possible - I cannot see her being an appropriate parent in her mindset.


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## bandit.45

Damn! This is just like my WW! F*ck now comes the trigger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Martinique78

Weekend Update!

So we went on this weekend overnight trip. We dropped off the boys at my moms house and hit the road. I was pretty much silent the entire two hour drive. She had been acting really nice because I had been in such a good mood the day before. What she didn't know was I was about to drop the D bomb. We got to our hotel sat down for a drink and I acted like nothing was wrong. Joking around with the wait staff and holding a conversation. We then decided to go swiming. I was in the hot tub with her but I didn't talk or look at her. She got out and went to the pool. 

Then we decided to head up to the room and get ready for dinner. I wasn't planning on dropping the bomb until the drive home but I couldn't wait. While she was getting ready I told he we needed to talk. I came out about everything and about how it was crap the she was putting the blame on me for her cheating. She told me that she never blamed me for her cheating. She takes 100% responsability for her actions. She only said the the anger that was inside of her that contributed to her actions was becaus of the problems between us. That combined with alcohol and the reaction it had with the medication she was on caused her to not know what she was doing and she lost control.

I told her that I couldn't work on this with her after all the sick and twisted stuff she did to make me out to be the bad guy. She said she kenew what she did was wrong and she is willing to do whatever it takes to make it up to me and fix our family. I then got upset and said you should have thought of that before you did anything. You didn't want to fix things until you got caught becaue you wanted it to continue that's why you wanted him to come over and be my friend...to make it easier to continue your affair. She then said she only wanted him to come over so that he would see us together and maybe he would stop because she didn't know how to make it stop. I asked why she even continued to be friends with him after what happened, she said it wasn't always sexual and he was a good friend. He paid her compliments and took an interest in her. I said do you really think any of what he said to you was genuine? That he said those things because he loved you and wanted to raise a family with you? He said those things to get in your pants and it worked. After all you were talking to him about how I work in the garage all the time and your lonely...you gave him the ammo so why wouldn't he say those things. He knew that what you wanted.

I then said I couldn't stay with her and she asked why I even came on the trip...was it to keep an eye on her or to divorce her before her sisters shower. I told her I wanted to give her one last night as a married couple. She started to cry begging me not to leave her I just walked out of the room and said I dont deserve this and i'm gone.

I walked to the closest bar sat down and had a coke. While sitting there she calls me and starts yelling at me for taking the car keys and the only room key. I told her get another room key from the front desk and neithie of us were driving so I took the keys. She ended up walking to a nearby resturant. She was texting me asking me to please just give her a chance to fix things. She wants to fix herself and without me there is no purpose. I told her that maybe that was her problem. I can't be the only purpose in your life. I have purpose in life no matter who i'm with. That's why when I don't give you my absolute attention you get lonely...because you have nothing else. I can't fix that and no matter how much attention I give you it will never be enough. She then begged me to just try conseling with her. I agreeded and said I make no promises that a divorce is not out of the question and there would need to be some huge lifestyle changes. 

We ate dinner, talked and then we drove to a bar to play some pool. The entire time I was looking at her and and it wasn't the same. I wasn't looking at the same girl. I started to shut down again and I got quiet. I kept picturing her with the OM and it was making me sick. She could see I wasn't doing well and asked if I wanted to leave. I told her yes but lets just find a place to sit close to the hotel so we can walk back. We sat down and had a drink and went back to the room. She started to undressed for bed and I lost it. I just pictured her taking off her clothes for this OM and I began to cry uncontrollably. She tried to calm me down and kept saying we'll get through this it's just going to take time. I then yelled I will never get over this I will never forget the fact that my another man had his way with my wife. You are tainted and nothing will fix that. I then left the room and walked to the beach where I sat and watched the waves for about and hour. I returned to the room and finally forced myself to go to sleep.

The next day I was completly silent except for yes and no answers. We checked out and had about three hours to kill before she had to be at the shower. She asked If I meant what I said about trying to work it out and I said no. She begins to cry and doesn't stop for the rest of the time we are talking. She then tells me that she lost something that led her to choose the wrong path. She lost her faith in God. She had always tried to attend church every Sunday before she was put on her medication but once she started taking it she stopped going. She said she turned her back on God and she made some very bad decisions because of it. She asked what lifestyle changes would she need to make to fix things and make me feel comfortable giving her a chance. I told her absolutely no guy friends...past present or future. No more bars unless I am with you. I have full access to all online accounts and her phone. If I compare the text messages with the phone bill each month they better add up and you're not deleting texts. No more drinking while on medication. No more toxic friends. You go to school and you come right home. The tracker on your phone will always be on. I told her if I was to work on things with her and any of those rules were broken then it's over. I then told her that it doesn't matter becaus I was going to leave her anyways. I dropped her off at the shower and went for a long drive. When I picked her up she was pretty quiet for a half hour and then she asked if we could just try being seperated while we work on things. I told her I don't think so. She begged and begged and cried for hours trying to get me to not leave her. She said she has hit rock bottom, I said no you haven't...not yet. She responded with yes I have...i'm losing everything, my best friend (me) my children and everything that I have.

I told her I would still go to see this counslor if she came completely clean about everything that happened. She agreed and she told me about the night with OM. She said they had kissed before anything happened. Then she got in his truck and he became very forward. He pulled off her shirt, bra and pants and beagan to finger her. As soon as he went inside she pushed him out saying she couldn't do that. So he got upset and said that's bull***t, what am I suppose to do now. She said I guess your **** out of luck. Then she said she just remembers undoing the button on his pants and then he did the rest. She touched it for a few seconds and that went down on him for less than a minute and she realized what she was doing was wrong got dressed and went home. She said she couldn't ever tell me what happened because it was her mistake and she just tried to forget it ever happened. I asked her if she didn't want it to happen than why did you offer it again if he would just come over. She said it was only to persuade him to come over because OM was so afraid that I would kill him that he would never come over because he didn't know how much she had told me about what went on between them. So the offer of sexual favors was the only way she knew he would come over.

We got back to my moms and picked up the kids. It was the happiest I had been all weekend. That put me into a better mood. After they went to bed the wife and I were getting along ok and we watched a movie. When it was time for bed I layed there so confused. I enjoyed spending time with her as long as I could keep the bad thoughts away but whe the thoughts did come up they were so bad I wanted to throw up. 

I got up this morning and she hugged me goodbye and told me she loves me. I responded with ok and left for work. On my way to work she called me and said I know you cant say it but I wanted to let you know that I love you. I said ok again and she asked whats wrong. I told her that i'm not there yet to say the same. I told her that i'm so confused and lost. I'm also upset with myself because I was so upset yesterday morning and afternoon and I felt firm on my decision but I feel like she tricked me into going to a counslor and not just divorcing her.

I don't know what I am doing...I don't want my kids to go through this and I can't imagin what life would be like. On the other hand do I want to live a life where I have no trust in my wife and everytime I wondering if she's getting what she needs from me or god to not cheat again. I just want to sleep for a year so I don't have to think about this for a while.


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## keko

Martinique78 said:


> I'm also upset with myself because I was so upset yesterday morning and afternoon and I felt firm on my decision but I feel like she tricked me into going to a counslor and not just divorcing her.


You are way too easily convinced by her. Her crying, begging, asking for to go to counselor are all games. Why didn't she get help while she was f'n the OM? Did you already forgot she tried to bring her f**k buddy into your house? What's more disrespectful to a husband then that?



> I don't know what I am doing...I don't want my kids to go through this and I can't imagin what life would be like. On the other hand do I want to live a life where I have no trust in my wife and everytime I wondering if she's getting what she needs from me or god to not cheat again. I just want to sleep for a year so I don't have to think about this for a while.


Its trickle truth. Unfortunately the longer you stay with her the more paranoid you'll be, if she is cheating or not.


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## bryanp

She is in such damage control. What a spin she put on this story. Think about what she just said. After previously giving him a blow job she later tells him to come over and meet you and if he does she will allow him to have oral sex with her and she will give him oral sex. She claims she only said this so he would see the two of you together and he would no longer want her. If you believe this story then I have a bridge to sell you.

The truth which you know is that she wanted you and him to be friends so you would not be suspicious so she could continue the affair without trouble. She was willing to engage in oral sex with him just so he would meet you. You know this is the truth. She is just in damage control and trying not to lose everything. Who could believe such a story?


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## iheartlife

Martinique78 said:


> I asked her if she didn't want it to happen than why did you offer it again if he would just come over. She said it was only to persuade him to come over because OM was so afraid that I would kill him that he would never come over because he didn't know how much she had told me about what went on between them. So the offer of sexual favors was the only way she knew he would come over.


This smacks of a big fat lie to me. This is the most damaging evidence you have--that it wasn't a 'one time' event with her getting into a bad situation and a man pressuring her.
This is information you said you obtained via VOICE RECORDING. Tell us honestly, when you listen to that recording again, does it line up with what she has said? Does it jive with what the OM said to you?
She has every incentive to lie about this, it is almost impossible to believe her now.




Martinique78 said:


> She wants to fix herself and without me there is no purpose. I told her that maybe that was her problem. I can't be the only purpose in your life. I have purpose in life no matter who i'm with. That's why when I don't give you my absolute attention you get lonely...because you have nothing else. I can't fix that and no matter how much attention I give you it will never be enough.


Print this out and tape it to the inside of your wallet. Make it the wallpaper on your phone and computer. You KNOW this is the heart of the issue.

Counseling is a great thing, but it is not a science and some human beings are profoundly, profoundly broken.

You do not have to follow through with attending counseling with her if in the end you determine it is not the right thing.

As you correctly perceive, she has to have a full life makeover, not just counseling, for any of this to stand a chance. I continue to be concerned that you think the children will be hurt by the breakup--what about the tremendous pain they have and will have in the future with someone who is SO messed up?


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## Complexity

Martin, read your original post again and then her excuse and then decide whether or not you made the right decision.


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## Martinique78

I know i feel like i'm losing control and i'm letting my guard down...she has gotten so good at twisting things around and putting a different view on things that I don't know which way is up. I don't know what to do...I want to run and just put it all behind me but I don't know if i'm strong enough. On the other hand I know i'm not srong enough to live with this.


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## lovelygirl

Wow!! You're going through such a rough path.

You're in a crossroad and I know how it feels to wanting to fall asleep so that you can forget about all this.


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## lovelygirl

Martinique78 said:


> I know i feel like i'm losing control and i'm letting my guard down...she has gotten so good at twisting things around and putting a different view on things that I don't know which way is up. I don't know what to do...I want to run and just put it all behind me but I don't know if i'm strong enough. On the other hand I know i'm not srong enough to live with this.


The fact is that during the whole time while she was evilishly cheating you on, she KNEW WHAT SHE WAS DOING!!! She was totally conscious. She wasn't on drugs or anything like that.

She's just a good actress.


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## keko

Martinique78 said:


> I know i feel like i'm losing control and i'm letting my guard down...she has gotten so good at twisting things around and putting a different view on things that I don't know which way is up. I don't know what to do...I want to run and just put it all behind me but I don't know if i'm strong enough. On the other hand I know i'm not srong enough to live with this.


Tell her to leave the house for a week. Then when you clear your mind start the divorce. The longer you expose yourself to her the more mindf**king she is going to do.


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## lovelygirl

keko said:


> Tell her to leave the house for a week. Then when you clear your mind start the divorce.


I'm afraid he's going to miss her if she leaves the house. 

The more he looks at her the more sickening images he gets on head so that helps toward the divorce. And I guess that's the right thing to do.


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## Martinique78

I am trying to get OM to talk to me again to see how her story compares to his. So far he has been the most honest with me and seemes to remember more than my wife does since she was "out of it". It's so sad that I respect OM more than my own wife because he has been so open with information. I dont feel that what he is feeding me are lies because he has been having a hard time even answering the questions I ask and he even apoligizes every time. He also told me the last time how much my wife talks about me and how I am her best friend and loves me very much. Of course that didn't stop either of them from continuing to do what they were doing.


----------



## lovelygirl

Martinique78 said:


> He also told me the last time how much my wife talks about me and how I am her best friend and loves me very much.


Bullsh!t!!!!!

I wonder what kind of love hers is!!


----------



## keko

Martinique78 said:


> I am trying to get OM to talk to me again to see how her story compares to his. So far he has been the most honest with me and seemes to remember more than my wife does since she was "out of it". It's so sad that I respect OM more than my own wife because he has been so open with information. I dont feel that what he is feeding me are lies because he has been having a hard time even answering the questions I ask and he even apoligizes every time. He also told me the last time how much my wife talks about me and how I am her best friend and loves me very much. Of course that didn't stop either of them from continuing to do what they were doing.


The only person you should be talking is an attorney. Unless you're ok having to share your wife in the future.


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## ArmyofJuan

You need to make her do a poly.

Dollars to donuts that story she told you and the spin on why she wanted to OM over is not 100% accurate. If she really had that attitude when she had her BJ encounter, she would had most likely just gone NC with him.

She did it because she wanted to, she is re-writing history. You might get a parking-lot confession from her if you try to force a polygraph.


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## turnera

Martinique, I have known many couples who have reconciled after one cheats. All the 'rules' you gave her are valid ones; I would add a polygraph test and, if you feel strongly enough, a post-nup agreement. The test will give you a sense of whether this has all been manipulation or if she really did just screw up and regrets it. 

Please don't make any decisions yet. Wait a few months. Go to the counseling - IF she meets all your rules. Line up the polygraph. Protect the bank accounts. There's plenty of time to divorce later.


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## Martinique78

I am going to look into a poly for her to take. I have lost all trust that anything she tells me is the truth. Now I just need to locate one close by. If she refuses to take it then I'll present her with walking papers.


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## happyman64

I agree with Turnera. Time is on your side. Take advantage of it.

Your very emotional, confused and hurt. These are the worst conditions to make any decisions under.

The conditions you gave your wife are very good. You have told her where you sit right now.

Tell her it is up to her to work on herself , get professional help and fix this marriage. Encourage her to do so.

Take the time to see if her actions match her words. Take the time to get your head and heart back to a better place.

See if she does the heavy lifting to fix the damage in her marriage. Set a date in your head 6 or 12 months in your head and them make a decision on R or D.

Do not tell her the date or that you are giving her a time frame. Just see if she really wants to fix things. 

Good Luck and keep posting.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO

I seriously doubt that she is sorry the cheated (regret over getting caught does not count). The reasons are already given.

I seriously would get the hell out of there. Consider that the cheating may be about how little regard and desire she has for you. Does she really want to be with you, or is it more about losing her meal ticket?

I would further say that you should assume that she will cheat again (or at least wish she could but is afraid of being caught). Then decide whether you want to remain married to this person.


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## alphaomega

Why the need for a polygraph? Or a VAR? Or even the need to continue to monitor her phone?

You already know everything you need.

In my opinion, separation may be a good thing in this instance. You need the distance to clear your head, and that is never going to happen with both of you in the same house. You will have too many mind movies.

Once you clear your head, which may take weeks or months, you will regain your focus and make a more balanced decision.

Stay, divorce..... That's up to you. No one will judge you either way. But you definitely need to clear your thoughts first. You need to find yourself agin.


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## morituri

You've been working your a$$ off to put a roof over your family's head and food on the table. It is time you made her work just as hard as you do to help sustain the family. I'll bet that after one day like yours she won't even have the energy to fvck around with other men.


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## Lon

Martinique, I just caught up on your thread. Sorry man, for your loss - I don't see that she is close to remorseful yet, when she told you the details of what happened in the OM's truck it just does not jive, she is still sugar-coating it, still trying to trickle truth you: She wouldn't have gone that far with him only to later realize what she was doing was wrong then stop. She knew what she was doing was wrong the entire time and still went ahead with having intercourse with him because she wanted to, because it made her feel good, she enjoyed it and is still trying to keep the truth from you because she is not remorseful or sorry for what she has done, she really is just sad that she got caught. She is trying to do damage control, and I think you know it but are still struggling to accept it.

Here is a link to something that helped me tremendously when my W betrayed our marriage vows (even though in my case my ex never went through the motions of wanting R):

Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights « betrayed but recovering

And just to add, your W clearly has problems with boundaries, so even if you redefine some, such as transparency, NC, no toxic friends, I guarantee based on her inability to stay within the intrinsic one of marital fidelity, it will be a huge struggle and challenge for her and if she is not truly remorseful she will fail pretty quickly.


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## Complexity

Martinique78 said:


> He also told me the last time how much my wife talks about me and how I am her best friend and loves me very much. Of course that didn't stop either of them from continuing to do what they were doing.


Nonsense, he's just trying to get you guys back together and how does that correlate with :



Martinique78 said:


> I She was trying to convince him to come over and meet me so I could become friends with him and allow her to continue to hang out with him without me giving her **** for it. She offered to make love to him, let him eat her out and even give him a blow job if he would just agree to come over and meet me.


The sad thing about this is that she's been the pursuer the whole time.


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## sandc

I don't buy the that BJ is as far as they went. Ask the OM, he seems more truthful.


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## MrQuatto

A few points if I may. Remeber, the VAR conversation has he saying that SHE would do x, x and y if he would come and meet you. The OM wasn't prompting any of that, that was all her show there.

As far as your conditions, so far they are sound. I agree with Turnera on the poly, if you want to reconcile, otherwise it's a moot point. THAT is what you need to decide now, do you want R or not? Chances are you dont know the whole story yet and will get trickle truth for a while. IF you want to R and want to get the whole story, then I would recommend a POST NUP and full disclosure. 

Q~


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## Entropy3000

Martinique78 said:


> I am trying to get OM to talk to me again to see how her story compares to his. So far he has been the most honest with me and seemes to remember more than my wife does since she was "out of it". It's so sad that I respect OM more than my own wife because he has been so open with information. I dont feel that what he is feeding me are lies because he has been having a hard time even answering the questions I ask and he even apoligizes every time. He also told me the last time how much my wife talks about me and how I am her best friend and loves me very much. Of course that didn't stop either of them from continuing to do what they were doing.


Stop respecting the OM. This is absurd. Good luck.


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## Martinique78

One of the thing I had asked her was after the sexual acts went down that night if he had tried to get her to do them again and she said yes but always turned him down. She admitted to like the fact that someone wanted her sexually and she liked turning him down. The thought that another man wanted her got her excited. I don't think that will ever go away and it's only a matter of time before she gives in again.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Just some random thoughts...

I'll bet your head is swimming right now. I recall all to clearly. I know it's easier said than done, but try to step back and calm down.

You were doing well, your actions were imposing consequences. Regardless of which way this goes and what you decide to do it's absolutely nessasary that you continue to allow her to understand and feel the natural consequences of her choices. DO NOT back off, if anything ratchet up the intensity, don't bend. I know how this sounds, but it's critical that you let her suffer. Pain triggers motivation for internal change. Only by a person's own free is true change possible. 

I'm not going to beat anything into you about what you should do and the decision you should make. This is your family. But, I will tell you... Consequences and true reconciliation are directly linked. If you decide to try to make this work, your success is contigent on the consequences she felt about her decisions.

If you love your wife, give her the gift of those consequences.

Funny, but accurate analogy just popped in my head...

You know how some parents are spanking a child and they say "This is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you".... As a kid, that sounded absurd to us... I hope you understand now... Be strong.


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## AngryandUsed

Take some time off.
Clear your head off.
DO NOT DECIDE IN CONFUSION


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## crossbar

I agree with AngerandUsed. Go away for a weekend. just go to a hotel for a weekend. Just by yourself. Decompress and relax. LEAVE YOUR PHONE AT HOME!!! Don't tell her where you're going. Just tell her you're going. Let your folks know where you are so they can contact you in case of an emergency.


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## mahike

I am sorry to ask this I am jumping in late but have you been to the Dr. and have you been tested for STD's. That was a very hard thing for me today.

Also I am sure you are having trouble sleeping and keeping focus. I know. Take care of yourself.


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## Martinique78

I'm planning on getting tested soon for any STD's (god I can't believe I have to go through this). 

I'm also leaving tomorrow night for an overnight work trip that should help. I feel I can think more clearly when I'm not around her because I don't have her right in my face feeding me the things she thinks I need to hear. Even when I'm at work and school I feel less tense and guarded. I have talked to an attorney to get things in motion for a divorce just in case also asked about obtaining her text messages for the last two months for further evidence of her infidelity. I just want to make sure if I do go through with a D that the kids are safe with me.


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## keko

Martinique78 said:


> I'm planning on getting tested soon for any STD's (god I can't believe I have to go through this).
> 
> I'm also leaving tomorrow night for an overnight work trip that should help. I feel I can think more clearly when I'm not around her because I don't have her right in my face feeding me the things she thinks I need to hear. Even when I'm at work and school I feel less tense and guarded. I have talked to an attorney to get things in motion for a divorce just in case also asked about obtaining her text messages for the last two months for further evidence of her infidelity. I just want to make sure if I do go through with a D that the kids are safe with me.


Are you still monitoring her texts/emails and whereabouts? Don't be surprised if she brings someone in while you're away/or goes out to a club.


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## Martinique78

I am still monitoring all lines of communication. I even asked the babysitter to let me know what time she gets home from school tomorrow. I talked to my attorney today and he asked me to come in to get things lined up to get a copy of her text messages for the last two months. Right now I'm just getting things in line for a D. This way I have the VAR evidence and the conversation from the day after the act happened and on to show there was no attempt to cut things off until she got caught.


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## the guy

I made a pro and con list for my marriage. Even though there are certian degrees to each line item in the list, I found it helpful in its simplest form. 

The big picture if you will, in keeping your wife or not. In my case my list was longer in the pro column so I kept my wife.

I gave it a year and she also keep up her end of the bargian so I pulled the D off the table.

The biggest thing now (for me) is not just saying the word forgiveness but acting on it. Its been two years and both our life styles and behaviors are healthier, so its easier to have this forgiveness for my fWW. 

Time is on your side, it will be up to your WW to use it wisely.


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## Kallan Pavithran

did you asked her for polygraph? what was her reaction?


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## Martinique78

Last night I made her swear on the bible and I asked her a series of questions that I have asked her in the past. I found out some other things that I did not know before. After she gave her answers I told her that I was going to set up an appointment for a polygraph test and I was going to have them ask the same series of questions and I will match her answers that she gave me to the ones on the poly test and if any of them don't match up then i'm gone...no questions asked. I then asked her if she would like to change any of her answers now before I send them to the poly people and she said no. She then ran to the bathroom and threw up for about 5 minutes. She has been a complete wreck the last few days but I have not given in. She has tried to get intimant with me but I told her I am no where even close to doing anything like that.

I'm going to take a break from the site for a bit to collect my thoughts with no outside influence from anybody. I feel I need to decide what to do on my own now. I appreciate everyones help and opinion and I will always be greatful I had some other people that have gone through this as well and letting me know i'm not alone in this.

I will return with some updates as they develop but not for a while.


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## happyman64

Good Press Martinique.

Time is on your side so take as much time as you need.

HM64


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## Bottled Up

Godspeed Martinique. You're doing well, just stay firm and keep making her own this.


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## bryanp

Excellent job.


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## turnera

Martinique78 said:


> Last night I made her swear on the bible and I asked her a series of questions that I have asked her in the past. I found out some other things that I did not know before. After she gave her answers I told her that I was going to set up an appointment for a polygraph test and I was going to have them ask the same series of questions and I will match her answers that she gave me to the ones on the poly test and if any of them don't match up then i'm gone...no questions asked. I then asked her if she would like to change any of her answers now before I send them to the poly people and she said no. She then ran to the bathroom and threw up for about 5 minutes. She has been a complete wreck the last few days but I have not given in. She has tried to get intimant with me but I told her I am no where even close to doing anything like that.


Very well done.


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## iheartlife

turnera said:


> Very well done.


Yep, he went from soft to tough in record time. More power to him.


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## Shaggy

Be strong and expect to get more trickle truth as time goes by.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

Good luck Marti,,,, for what its worth, I believe her that it happened once. If they was more involved, the VAR wouldn't have picked up her trying to bribe him, with stuff he was already getting. It seems she is into it as more of an EM.


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## vi_bride04

Good luck. I wish you the best. Stay strong, the road will be extremely difficult.


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## TDSC60

OldWolf57 said:


> Good luck Marti,,,, for what its worth, I believe her that it happened once. If they was more involved, the VAR wouldn't have picked up her trying to bribe him, with stuff he was already getting. It seems she is into it as more of an EM.


My only problem with believing this is that she left her phone in his truck a couple of weeks after the supposed "one time".

Good luck guy. Get you head on straight. Pull the trigger strong.


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## iheartlife

TDSC60 said:


> My only problem with believing this is that she left her phone in his truck a couple of weeks after the supposed "one time".
> 
> Good luck guy. Get you head on straight. Pull the trigger strong.



Wow, good catch.

So there's
1. the drunken broken bra clasp incident, THEN

2. To quote Marti, _"About a week or two later she was suppose to meet a female friend at the bar and this guy ended up showing up and hung out with them all night until her friend left. Instead of leaving the same time as her friend she stayed another 20 minutes with him. When I noticed that her friend had come home I wondered where she was. She told me she was waiting to cash out. when she got home she said she lost her phone. I did the iphone tracker and it was in this guys truck at his house. Thats when I knew he was there with her and that for some reason she was in his truck."_

3. THEN "_One day I slipped a voice recorder in the car she took to school last week and I recorded a conversation between him and her. She was trying to convince him to come over and meet me so I could become friends with him and allow her to continue to hang out with him without me giving her **** for it. She offered to make love to him, let him eat her out and even give him a blow job if he would just agree to come over and meet me_."


Well, it doesn't change any of my previous advice, at least, or how he's handled it so far...stay strong Martinique.


----------



## Martinique78

Just a little update.

Wife is going in today for her first round of conseling on her own before we go see the conselor together. I on the other hand am going to see a lawyer to discuss my plan of action. 

I was on a small overnight work trip yesterday with another coworker. When we got in we decided to stop somewhere for a quick beer or two. We started talking about our families and he was telling me how his wife was a teacher and all the good she is doing in the schools and when it came time for me to talk about my wife I couldn't think of anything nice to say. The first thing that came to my mind was "my wife goes to bars and blows guys in the parking lot and then justifies it with she was drunk and didn't know what she was doing".

While sitting in the airport i was watching families walk by and I thought to myself I wonder if his wife has cheated on him. They look so happy.

When I got home my wife was cooking an amazing dinner for the two of us. she had the boys dressed for bed and she was all cleaned up and dressed nice for me. All I could do was sit on the couch and just hold my kids tight until it was their bedtime. We ate and she asked me what was wrong and I told her how the topic of our wives came up with my coworker and when it came time for me to talk about her I couldn't think of anything nice to say so I didn't say anything. The look on her face was of pure shame and she got up and went outside to have a smoke. When she came back in we didn't really say much more to each other the rest of the night.

This morning she sent me a text when I was at work that said:

I know you're angry and hurt and don't want to talk to me but I had to tell you I love you and remind you that i'll make it all up to you. I promise.
I'm facing this appointment with fear and excitement. Fear of facing realities and pain, but excitement to get myself worked out in the future to be better for you.

I only responded with OK...I didn't know what else to say.


----------



## keko

Are you still taking her to a poly?


----------



## Martinique78

keko said:


> Are you still taking her to a poly?


I am still waiting on a response from the poly people for a time to come in.


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## bryanp

I really feel for you. Before I got my divorce a friend of mine asked me if I felt proud and special that she was my wife? I could only answer the question NO so I knew I eventually had to divorce. I wish you luck.


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## warlock07

Martinique, I am following your thread and just re-read some of your recent posts. 

I think a good thing to do now is to postpone the D. Put the marriage on probation and judge her solely on the actions she does to repair the marriage during this time. Hope you already read the links.

One more thing is to be aware of how to react to her during this time. You will have a lot of anger during the initial months due to the mind movies. Make sure you direct this anger in a proper way. 
This women will be in your life whether your R or D for quite a few more years

Good luck.


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## turnera

Unfortunately, you're going to be hurting for a long long time. Accept that and don't expect a speedy recovery. Explain that to her. She'll likely want you to stop talking about it pretty soon.


----------



## Beowulf

Martinique78 said:


> Just a little update.
> 
> Wife is going in today for her first round of conseling on her own before we go see the conselor together. I on the other hand am going to see a lawyer to discuss my plan of action.
> 
> I was on a small overnight work trip yesterday with another coworker. When we got in we decided to stop somewhere for a quick beer or two. We started talking about our families and he was telling me how his wife was a teacher and all the good she is doing in the schools and when it came time for me to talk about my wife I couldn't think of anything nice to say. The first thing that came to my mind was "my wife goes to bars and blows guys in the parking lot and then justifies it with she was drunk and didn't know what she was doing".
> 
> While sitting in the airport i was watching families walk by and I thought to myself I wonder if his wife has cheated on him. They look so happy.
> 
> When I got home my wife was cooking an amazing dinner for the two of us. she had the boys dressed for bed and she was all cleaned up and dressed nice for me. All I could do was sit on the couch and just hold my kids tight until it was their bedtime. We ate and she asked me what was wrong and I told her how the topic of our wives came up with my coworker and when it came time for me to talk about her I couldn't think of anything nice to say so I didn't say anything. The look on her face was of pure shame and she got up and went outside to have a smoke. When she came back in we didn't really say much more to each other the rest of the night.
> 
> This morning she sent me a text when I was at work that said:
> 
> I know you're angry and hurt and don't want to talk to me but I had to tell you I love you and remind you that i'll make it all up to you. I promise.
> I'm facing this appointment with fear and excitement. Fear of facing realities and pain, but excitement to get myself worked out in the future to be better for you.
> 
> I only responded with OK...I didn't know what else to say.


Martinique,

My wife had an affair as well. It was a full blown PA that lasted several months. She ended it and we R. Frankly I didn't think she would stay faithful and I didn't think I could get beyond her affair. But we both worked very hard and 20 years later we are both very happy and still very much in love.

You need to decide how you feel. Everyone is different. Some can work to move beyond a trauma like infidelity and some can't. There is no right and no wrong. It's how you feel that dictates whether you can accept your wife back or not. Either way its ok and you need to do what is best for you. Let me just share with you a couple of things that may assist you as you make your way through this.

In the beginnings of our R I was sure my wife would screw up. I buried my feelings and just waited like a cat waiting to pounce on a mouse. Thing is, she never screwed up. She worked very hard to rebuild our marriage and I just kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. Finally after 3 months I exploded. I verbally and emotionally abused my wife with a venom that still scares me to this day. I did this for over a week until finally my wife collapsed into a fetal position on the kitchen floor sobbing hysterically. She never once fought back and she never once got defensive. She took everything I dished out until she just broke down. It was only then that I realized I needed help with my anger and resentment. I sought counseling and found out I had PTSD symptoms. If you are feeling so overwhelmed like I was I urge you to seek help as well. Its not healthy for anyone, least of all you, to bottle up your feelings.

The other thing I want to share with you is this. You will never look at your wife in the same way. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I saw my wife though the innocent lenses of rose colored glasses. Once I realized she could betray me the way she did I couldn't see her as an innocent anymore. But gradually I came to see her as something different and something more. I saw her as stronger, more determined, more grown up, better able to handle herself and eventually yes more loving. I saw her not through rose colored glasses but in the light of reality. And she was more beautiful than ever. But I had to work on loosing the resentment before my vision would clear.

You and your wife are forever changes as is your marriage. But that change can be good if you both grow and work on making your marriage the best it can be. But this has to occur on your terms and only if you feel you want to R. You need to look deep inside and be honest with yourself. Only when you reconcile with yourself can you begin to reconcile with your wife. Will it work? There is no way to know. But it can work if you and she are determined and honest with yourself and each other. Allow your emotions to settle down and see if how you feel changes. Then make your decision. Its really all you can do.


----------



## Chaparral

Martinique78 said:


> Just a little update.
> 
> Wife is going in today for her first round of conseling on her own before we go see the conselor together. I on the other hand am going to see a lawyer to discuss my plan of action.
> 
> I was on a small overnight work trip yesterday with another coworker. When we got in we decided to stop somewhere for a quick beer or two. We started talking about our families and he was telling me how his wife was a teacher and all the good she is doing in the schools and when it came time for me to talk about my wife I couldn't think of anything nice to say. The first thing that came to my mind was "my wife goes to bars and blows guys in the parking lot and then justifies it with she was drunk and didn't know what she was doing".
> 
> While sitting in the airport i was watching families walk by and I thought to myself I wonder if his wife has cheated on him. They look so happy.
> 
> When I got home my wife was cooking an amazing dinner for the two of us. she had the boys dressed for bed and she was all cleaned up and dressed nice for me. All I could do was sit on the couch and just hold my kids tight until it was their bedtime. We ate and she asked me what was wrong and I told her how the topic of our wives came up with my coworker and when it came time for me to talk about her I couldn't think of anything nice to say so I didn't say anything. The look on her face was of pure shame and she got up and went outside to have a smoke. When she came back in we didn't really say much more to each other the rest of the night.
> 
> This morning she sent me a text when I was at work that said:
> 
> I know you're angry and hurt and don't want to talk to me but I had to tell you I love you and remind you that i'll make it all up to you. I promise.
> I'm facing this appointment with fear and excitement. Fear of facing realities and pain, but excitement to get myself worked out in the future to be better for you.
> 
> I only responded with OK...I didn't know what else to say.


A gentleman, a strong man would respond with a thank you. You have been insulted and harmed to your core but never forget who you are. That is what will get you through this. Take the leadership role back in your family. You can do it. One important thing to do is learn to control your thoughts. It can be done.

My favorite way is to grab a barbell, get on the recumbant bike with a book. You have to be able to take a vacation from your thoughts. This also helps you gain perspective. Often when I am suffering severe problems the answers will come to me only after I have been able to quit thinking about them. And then it seems the problem wan't as bad as I thought.

For now take your wife at her word. Its bad but many here have been in much worse shape and came through it better and stronger.

Not sure what your philosophy is but another thing that has a calming effect on me is listening to the 
bible on CDs in my truck going to and from work. Country music also, there's always someone in a country song that can make your life look good. LOL

Good luck and prayers 

Chap


----------



## lovelygirl

chapparal said:


> A gentleman, a strong man would respond with a thank you. You have been insulted and harmed to your core but never forget who you are.


I'm sure he hasn't forgotten who he is and if things were different probably he would have answered "Thank you, I love you.."

it's just that with the way things are now, he probably thinks that she doesn't deserve to have a gentleman by her side. 
And that's true.


----------



## bandit.45

M,

I know your pissed, but you blew you first opportunity for R.

You should have thanked your wife for the effort to cook you a nice meal and for dolling herself up for you. She would not have done it if she was not sincere. What are her motives? At this point who cares? She extended an olive branch and you smacked it away. Dumb.

When your wife does something nice for you, you should respond in kind.

If she continues to gaslight you and sneak around, then you come down with sanctions. 

Its like training a dog... except she's not a dog. Well, not literally...


----------



## Complexity

I'm sure that meal didn't exactly taste like a 5 star Ritz course after her actions. I certainly understand his resentment and she's gonna have to put up with it for a long time.


----------



## the guy

Stop bing affraid and face this crap head on along with your wife. Look this evil right in the face and take charge, do not let this define who you are, do not let this bs beat you, do not hide from it.

In doing so you will just sweep this under the carpet, only to have it return years from now. 

So open this adultory crap wide open and educate your self, and now it evil for what it is. Both of you should face this infidelity head on without fear of the pain it causes. Its supposed to painful, in the hope of not repeating.

Get rid of the elephent in the room by facing it with a vengence so as to fight it and take control over it, versus it taking control over you and your wife..

Please face this ...both of you face this head on and understand it completely so it never happens again...with or without your fWW, the both of you will have the armour in your next relationship (hopefully with the same person).


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## Turner9

Wow! I took the time to read everyone's post, and I have to say a few things puzzle me??

1) This comment: 3. THEN "One day I slipped a voice recorder in the car she took to school last week and I recorded a conversation between him and her. She was trying to convince him to come over and meet me so I could become friends with him and allow her to continue to hang out with him without me giving her **** for it. She offered to make love to him, let him eat her out and even give him a blow job if he would just agree to come over and meet me."

2) WTH!!? Why on Gods green earth would you need a Poly for?? When any individual goes this far in error, its not just judgement, its an error in HEART! Now, I know, marriage is a complex thing, filled with many dynamics! If this was just some girl friend of mine, the decision would be easy for me & allot of people, I would have kicked her out or just left. 

But, a Wife? Mother? Friend or Best Friend? That's more difficult. I do not know how you established the foundation of your marriage, meaning, .. You were great! friends 1st, then lovers, then parents.

Or, Parents, Lovers then friends. The order and the exclusion of other variables are important. Because its these very unique details that are dictating your actions now. If SEX was the only Glue that held me and my wife together? We would have been done years ago! Seriously. That just means, at some point, we both failed in the satisfaction department towards each other. 

But, she was my best friend 1st when we met, and she will remain in that state NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS IN OUR MARRIAGE! Yes, an affair would hurt me, yes, I would more than likely end the marriage relationship but after I healed, I would still keep the friendship part in tact! Because, it was built on Unconditional Love, mixed with a decision of good and worse things that may come. 

Perhaps, this is what you are psychologically and emotionally playing with inside as a defining reason as to what next step you should take. Whatever decision you choose, stick with it! don't waiver for anyone! 

I have no clue why your wife did what she did, and why she went through the lengths of covering it up, besides the obvious one of not getting caught! But, Maybe this saying given to me 15 years ago may help you now. 

" Above all things be balanced, Above all things be Strong, Above all things Fight what is right, when all things seem wrong. 

Forgive their errors, Forgive their ways, so you may see clearly how to fight this day. Remove all your Idolatry, remove all your blame, remove all the things that cause you to go insane. 

Remember their frailty, remember their frame, remember not so long ago, you both were the same. So the trials of this life has caused them great shame, they move to and fro now knowing 
from whence they came. So, what shall you do? Will you add more weight too?, Or remove the 
obstacles from your friends view? 

Its all the same, the left or right, but your going to have to choose which side to fight.

When its all over, I hope you chose right, God forbid, you should ever find yourself in this 
very plight.


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## lordmayhem

bandit.45 said:


> M,
> 
> I know your pissed, but you blew you first opportunity for R.
> 
> You should have thanked your wife for the effort to cook you a nice meal and for dolling herself up for you. She would not have done it if she was not sincere. What are her motives? At this point who cares? She extended an olive branch and you smacked it away. Dumb.
> 
> When your wife does something nice for you, you should respond in kind.
> 
> If she continues to gaslight you and sneak around, then you come down with sanctions.
> 
> Its like training a dog... except she's not a dog. Well, not literally...


:iagree:

My fWW is pretty much going all out in R and doing the heavy lifting and then some. Whenever she does something nice, which is quite often nowadays, I always thank her. On my end, I also try to do nice things for her that would make her happy. The smile and sparkle in her eyes is a nice reward.


----------



## morituri

Anger is a natural emotion and it protects, in the beginning, the betrayed spouse. The problem is that if it continues to be fed, it will make you a bitter man. No matter what happens to your marriage (R or D), you must make the choice not to allow her betrayal to define who you are. Remember that your happiness does not, never has, and never will depend on your wife. Continue to take joy in your children and in the things you enjoy doing.


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## Martinique78

Hello again everyone. It's been a while since my last update and I can't say if things are better or worse. 

We have been to one counseling session together and we each went seperatly one time. Tomorrow is her second individual session while mine is next week. I don't really feel they are helping with the infedelity as much as it's helping me understand why I kept myself so busy not only just to provide for my family but also for my hobbies.

It's true when I had free time I could have spent with my wife I didn't. I lived at home with my parents till I was 25 or 26 years old. I had a very different life growing up than most people. I was an only child and my dad was obsessed with working on our house to the point where my dad, mom and I built the house my mom is in now from the ground up. I was always required to be there for whenever my dad needed me and I could never make plans for fear of pissing him off or my friends for ditching them. 

When I met my wife we started dating and things between my dad and I got so bad I finally just left and got a place of my own. I never lived on my own. I lived a life where I always had to be there for everyone else and make sure they got what they needed. It was the same thing with my friends. I only heard from them when they needed fe to fix something for them.

I was always big into cars and I'm really good at it. I was never able to take my talent to it's full potential living at my parents and even after I moved out because I lived in apartments. My wife moved in with me less than a month of me moving out of my parents. That was fine with me because I loved her and wanted to be with her. We ended up moving again to another apartment untill finally we rented a house when we found out she was pregnant with our first born. This house had a garage I could work on my car in. I had not had a chance to enjoy my passion for cars in over 3-4 years and I was so excited that I did start spending a lot of time out there. During this time my wife was going throught some depression about her life and how she felt she did nothing with her life besides wasting it. I tried to uplift her as much as I knew how but I was never very good at it because I was raised in a very non uplifting family. During this time I was realizing how I always had to take care of everyone else and I never got the chance to fullfill my needs. That combined with not being able to fix my wifes depression put me in a place where I just wanted to escape if only for a night. 

When she confronted me about how much time I was spending out in the garage is when the arguement broke out that caused me to say that I would rather work in the garage than sit in the house with her. I know that was one of the worst things I could ever say and there is not a day that i don't wish I could take it back. She held onto that to this day and said it changed her feelings about how I thought about her. As our kids were born and the demand for money became more and more I went from working in my garage on my own projects to working in the garage to make extra money for my family. All my stuff once again got pushed aside for the more important things. 

My wife confided in me that she never has confidence in herself and that's why she required so much from me and when I wasn't there to give her the confidence she needed that's when she got depressed and angry. I then asked if she considered her body special that it was something that a person had to earn the right to share it and she said no. Before we ever met she told me she would have sex out of convenience with guys because that's what she wanted. That infact a lot of her guy friends that she aquired when she was younger she had sex with once and then they were just friends after that. She told me a on time that she had somewhere wetween 20-30 partners before she met me. She was only 23 when I met her. My number was much lower and I was 25-26 years old.

I am still just so lost with what to do. Yes there was maybe some bakc issues that needed to be addressed but nothing that couldn't have been fixed and didn't lead to infedelity. Now my image of my wife is destroyed. I have my good days and I have my bad days. Sometimes the simplest things set me off and I get so upset and sick to my stomach. One day I was picking the clothes up off the bed and the sound of her belt flashed an image in my head of her undoing her belt that night of the affair. Then right after that she walked into the room holding the bra she took a picture of herself in and sent to him and a pair of sissors teling me to cut it up and take out some agression and I just lost it. She said she thought it would help.

I just got mad and said I should have to do something like this in the first place and now youre throwing it in right in my face and went to sleep. She ended up cutting it up herself and threw it away.

She has also forbid me from hanging out with my friend and his wife across the street (the girl that was with her that second night at the bar when OM was there) because they offered me money for a divorce if that was the only thing keeping me from leaving. She was best friends with this girl for almost two years but once she found out what me wife had done and how my wife tried to get her to vouch for the OM she was furious and stopped talking to my wife. So she said I can only hang out with him as long as his wife in not hanging out with us as well. I told her she has no right telling me who I can and cant hang out with now.

Day to day things are different. We occasionally have sex but it's not the same. It's more out of a need than a want on my side. I just hate that I weak like that cause I know I'm probably not helping things and I feel like she's getting the impression things are ok then I just blow up about how she ruined anything we had together by giving herself to another man.

On a side note I have been going to the gym and working out and I have already lost 20 lbs. Mostly because I wasn't eating for the first few weeks. The problem now is that she has already started questioning why I was at the gym for almost 2 hours the other night. She is also worried that I'm going to hook up with another girl while i'm in Lousiana for a wedding one weekend. She thinks that's why I have been trying to get into shape.

I don't really know what anyone was suppose to get from all this ranting but feel free to comment on anything. I don't know what i'm doing from one day to the next anymore.


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## Shaggy

I do suggest that while it is important for you to realize and try to change how much time you spend with her, it is vital that you do no let her blame her cheat on that.

She willingly chose to cheat. She could have fought for your time, she could have had a friend talk to you, heck she could have joined you in the garage. She rejected those options, and instead chose to cheat. The affair is 100/% hers to own. None of that choice is your fault. If a counsellor or her ever says otherwise correct them on the spot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap

She doesn't get to pick your friends.


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## Martinique78

She has taken ownership for cheating. She claims that it was due to her lack of confidence in herself and our marriage. She said that she relied on me to give her that confidence but I didn't because I would rather work in the garage. So she takes blame for the cheating but it's my falut for not giving her the confidence to turn away temtation. This is where I get so twisted and pissed off. Can I be the only thing keeping my wife from cheating? Is it not under her control at all?


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## turnera

Ask your IC for specific actions to take every single day to improve your communication.


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## snap

Martinique78 said:


> She has taken ownership for cheating. She claims that it was due to her lack of confidence in herself and our marriage. She said that she relied on me to give her that confidence but I didn't because I would rather work in the garage. So she takes blame for the cheating but it's my falut for not giving her the confidence to turn away temtation. This is where I get so twisted and pissed off. Can I be the only thing keeping my wife from cheating? Is it not under her control at all?


This is all blame shifting. She does not want to be responsible for her affair. She didn't take any ownership.


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## Shaggy

She's not taking ownership for choosing to cheat. She is admitng it was wrong, but is saying it was caused by you. Essentially she had no choice. See how that is different from admitting she had a choice, and she chose to cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

> Can I be the only thing keeping my wife from cheating? Is it not under her control at all?


No. You should not be what keeps your wife from cheating. It is all under her control. 

However, both spouses have the right to feel secure in the relationship. It one of you does not then it is up to that spouse to communicate the issue clearly and discuss what is wrong so you both can fix what is causing the discomfort so the issue can be resolved. That is what you both should be doing to have a healthy marriage.

Infidelity does not fix anything. Your wife owns that mistake all on her own. Hopefully with counselling she will learn why she did have an Affair and what she needs to do in the future so she does not make that same mistake again.

Communication is key to a healthy relationship. It sounds like you realize where the breakdown occurred for you.

You need to encourage her to stay in counselling so she can understand her issues and get help to deal with them.

Her actions will speak much louder than her words. 

Patience.

HM64


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## warlock07

> She said that she relied on me to give her that confidence but I didn't because I would rather work in the garage.


She is milking the incident as much as she can. So far it is giving her good mileage.



> On a side note I have been going to the gym and working out and I have already lost 20 lbs. Mostly because I wasn't eating for the first few weeks. The problem now is that she has already started questioning why I was at the gym for almost 2 hours the other night. She is also worried that I'm going to hook up with another girl while i'm in Lousiana for a wedding one weekend. She thinks that's why I have been trying to get into shape.


haha..Funny how cheaters are one of the most paranoid and insecure people on earth when they do all the cheating..


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## BoomHower

Leave and run a way. you are better person here and you are a family person you are a good person and deserve someone who value you. there are many girls out there would love to have a such person like you and even they have not slept with half of who she slept with.


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## CantSitStill

My husband had faults..piszed me off soo bad but I wish I would have done something but instead went seeking out my ex boyfriend.. The choice I made I regret soo bad. We could have fixed our problems by now but since I went and had an EA it's gonna take forever to fix. She did this to you. No matter what you did cheating is not the answer and only makes things worse.. She don't trust you now? It's not gonna work without trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TorontoBoyWest

Everyone is correct that she has not taken true ownership.

It is ok to suggest that the problems your WS had with the marriage caused her to come to the cliff that is cheating. Her unhappiness with you, or with the situation, or with life in general, it was a factor. It can't be overlooked.

You see, There are plenty of reasons to get to the cliff. Lack of moral compass, integrity issues, unhappiness, no boundaries. It all plays a part in most cases unfortunately.

She got to the cliff. She had options. She jumped. She chose to address her issues by cheating. No one forced her. It was her decision.

That is all on her. 50/50 on the marriage. 100% on the A. 

She jumped.

And until she realizes that... you can't truly have R.


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## iheartlife

Good to hear from you--thank you for giving us an update.



Martinique78 said:


> My wife confided in me that she never has confidence in herself and that's why she required so much from me and when I wasn't there to give her the confidence she needed that's when she got depressed and angry.


This is your problem right here, and if you go back and look through the earliest posts you will see that it was identified long ago.

That is, "she never has confidence in herself."

AND, she is relying on YOU to give her confidence.

I have news for her. NO OTHER HUMAN BEING IS THERE TO GIVE YOU CONFIDENCE. Nor CAN they give it to you even if they wanted to.

I'm pretty sure I once called her a bottomless pit of neediness. She has confirmed this for you with her own words.

You've correctly figured out how you made the marriage vulnerable. You used the garage as an escape. Escape from what? Escape from her depression. Why did you try to escape her depression? Because you tried, but couldn't fix it.

Again--NO OTHER HUMAN BEING CAN LIFT SOMEONE OUT OF DEPRESSION. No matter how much they want to.

I sincerely hope she learns in individual counseling why she has ALWAYS, long before she met you, had such incredibly low self-worth. She is doomed to repeat this unless she can figure this out. And I believe I said this before, too--some people are so broken they can't be fixed. I pray this is not the case with her; but only time will tell.


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## OldWolf57

M, the anger is to be expected. the mind movies will be there a while. now, IMHO, you did a good job relating your past an upbringing, and she seemed to finally see what led her down this path, from here you an she thru counseling finally have a chance to grow. and no, you didn't cause her to cheat. as stated in my earlier post, she could have work in the garage with you, or demanded you give her some of your time. Still, I feel you guys can make it. Now this is from a REAL hardnosed SOB,,, me.


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## Martinique78

Thanks everyone. One of the things my wife said the other day was "do you realize that we have talked about our issues and our struggles more in the last month than our entire relationship". That kind of hit home a little bit.

Last night she told me we should work in the garage that night because I haven't been out there in so long. the night consisted of me cleaning and her asking what she could do to help. I have been so distant the last couple days because of an arguement we got into two nights ago about our issues with spending time together and her lack of confidence in herself. Some things were talked about concerning the night of the affair that has only got me thinking about it again and causing me to shut down. She has noticed it and last night while laying in bed she slid over and wraped her arms around me, held me tight until she fell asleep. I know she was making an effort to comfort me but all I could think was "dont touch me". I'm afraid these feelings are never going to go away and we a doomed to a divorce. I know it's still early in the game to make any predictions on our outcome but I just don't know what I want to do.

I have two weddings coming up in the next month, one being her sisters and I'm so afraid i'm going to loose it when I see another couple standing where we were five years ago. Making those vows to each other that didn't hold true. I'm especially afraid for the wedding that I will be at alone in Lousiana. What if i get those same feelings again and I get so upset and angry that I do seek out revenge? I know it would only make things worse and make me no better than her.


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## iheartlife

Have you ever told her, I love you very deeply, but as deeply as I love you, you must find a way to love yourself even more. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow, and then somehow you would have to find a way to move on and live your life. You must find out, probably only through counseling, why you are prone to depression, why my love is not enough. It's true that I shut down and don't communicate, but it's because I try to fix your problems, I try to help your depression, I try to meet your needs, but these problems are bigger than we are, and they weren't caused during our marriage. I see evidence that they existed from before we even met.


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## turnera

Wait, you've only been married 5 years? Then run like the wind, man! People who cheat that early in a marriage are damaged goods and almost impossible to fix.


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## lovelygirl

turnera said:


> Wait, you've only been married 5 years? Then run like the wind, man! People who cheat that early in a marriage are damaged goods and almost impossible to fix.


yeah...

What will happen when you get older, unattractive, tired and so on??


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## happyman64

Martinique,



> One of the things my wife said the other day was "do you realize that we have talked about our issues and our struggles more in the last month than our entire relationship". That kind of hit home a little bit.


At least you realize what she said to you was the truth. Now what are you going to do about it??? The cheating is on her. She needs to own it, find out why and fix it. The communication issues are on both of you to fix. So start now!!!



> Some things were talked about concerning the night of the affair that has only got me thinking about it again and causing me to shut down. She has noticed it and last night while laying in bed she slid over and wraped her arms around me, held me tight until she fell asleep. I know she was making an effort to comfort me but all I could think was "dont touch me". I'm afraid these feelings are never going to go away and we a doomed to a divorce. I know it's still early in the game to make any predictions on our outcome but I just don't know what I want to do.


So you recognize these feelings and that you shutdown on her. Good. Now get some help in counselling on how you can deal with these feelings and the best way to deal with them. This process takes time. Give it a few months to see if you can R. 

And you recognize her effort and that is a good sign too. Take it one day at a time Martinique.




> I have two weddings coming up in the next month, one being her sisters and I'm so afraid i'm going to loose it when I see another couple standing where we were five years ago. Making those vows to each other that didn't hold true. I'm especially afraid for the wedding that I will be at alone in Lousiana. What if i get those same feelings again and I get so upset and angry that I do seek out revenge? I know it would only make things worse and make me no better than her.


Getting angry will not make anything better for your situation. If you get upset during either of these weddings get up and go outside to calm down. Triggers are understandable, how you deal with them is a sign that you want to heal.

And having a revenge affair will not make you feel any better. And you might hurt an innocent party in the process.

Think before you act. You are better than that. And just think, if you did have a revenge affair you will be on your wife's level and would have no good reason to leave her since you both cheated on each other.

Respect works both ways but you have to respect yourself first before you can ever respect anyone else.

Have faith in yourself....

HM64


----------



## Martinique78

iheartlife said:


> Have you ever told her, I love you very deeply, but as deeply as I love you, you must find a way to love yourself even more. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow, and then somehow you would have to find a way to move on and live your life. You must find out, probably only through counseling, why you are prone to depression, why my love is not enough. It's true that I shut down and don't communicate, but it's because I try to fix your problems, I try to help your depression, I try to meet your needs, but these problems are bigger than we are, and they weren't caused during our marriage. I see evidence that they existed from before we even met.


I have more recently now than ever after finding out how low her self confidence actually is. I also told her that no matter how much I lifted her up it would never bee enough and that she had to find a way to love herself first and the lifting up I did would only add to it but it couldnt be the only thing.



turnera said:


> Wait, you've only been married 5 years? Then run like the wind, man! People who cheat that early in a marriage are damaged goods and almost impossible to fix.


Together for 7 years and our 5 year mark will be in July.

I now realize how damaged she is and I sometimes feel i'm only holding on for the sake of my boys. They love both of us so much and I feel I owe it to them at least to try and work it out. I don't even want to think about how a divorce would affect them even if my WW didn't take that in to account when she cheated.



lovelygirl said:


> yeah...
> 
> What will happen when you get older, unattractive, tired and so on??


I think about that more now than I ever have. I think that's why I have been trying so hard to get back into shape but every day I find something about myself that makes me feel unattractive and it only makes me try harded. Things that didn't bother me before are hitting me full force now.



happyman64 said:


> Martinique,
> 
> 
> 
> At least you realize what she said to you was the truth. Now what are you going to do about it??? The cheating is on her. She needs to own it, find out why and fix it. The communication issues are on both of you to fix. So start now!!!
> 
> So you recognize these feelings and that you shutdown on her. Good. Now get some help in counselling on how you can deal with these feelings and the best way to deal with them. This process takes time. Give it a few months to see if you can R.
> 
> And you recognize her effort and that is a good sign too. Take it one day at a time Martinique.
> 
> Getting angry will not make anything better for your situation. If you get upset during either of these weddings get up and go outside to calm down. Triggers are understandable, how you deal with them is a sign that you want to heal.
> 
> And having a revenge affair will not make you feel any better. And you might hurt an innocent party in the process.
> 
> Think before you act. You are better than that. And just think, if you did have a revenge affair you will be on your wife's level and would have no good reason to leave her since you both cheated on each other.
> 
> Respect works both ways but you have to respect yourself first before you can ever respect anyone else.
> 
> Have faith in yourself....
> 
> HM64


I know the revenge would only make things worse and only bring me down to her level. That and my self respect and confidence that I have always had I trust will keep me on the right path. I just need to control my emotions and look towards the future.


----------



## lovelygirl

Martinique78 said:


> I think about that more now than I ever have. I think that's why I have been trying so hard to get back into shape but every day I find something about myself that makes me feel unattractive and it only makes me try harded. Things that didn't bother me before are hitting me full force now.


It should not matter how much you work out or if you get back in shape or not. 
The problem is the fact that she hasn't learned to love you despite of your flaws.
Whatever you do, if she doesn't love you , she doesn't! Sometimes it's not worth trying in vain.


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## morituri

Martinique78, everybody - including you - are right that your wife is a broken woman but what is sad is that she is the mother of your boys which means that her self-destructive actions will affect them negatively. Right now you've got some influence on her and if you use it to insist that she seek therapy to fix herself, at least something good can come out of this horrible ordeal. Maybe you can try to convey the following:

"You know that right now I can't make any promises to you whether we're going to make it or not but I do love you and if you love me and the boys, as you say you do, then you'll seek help to fix the issues that brought us to this point. I can't do it for you, it is something that only you can do".

No matter what you decide, R or D, you will still have to deal with her for years until your boys become men. That means you have a window of opportunity to take advantage of that can benefit everybody. And even if she doesn't seek therapy and continues on a downward spiral of self-destructive behavior, you can hold your head high and show your boys that you did all you could to help their mother. They're smart and will see which parent has their best interests at heart, you.


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## turnera

FYI, I'm usually one of the first to tell people to try to save a marriage, even without kids. Leaving just moves your problems to the next marriage. But you have to be honest with yourself on what her (and your) real problems are. If she's not doing real work to learn to love herself, then your marriage will NEVER be safe or good. And that is often just as bad for your kids as leaving. They will become whatever they see in their house. If you can't model good parenting and relationship skills in a house with her, then you owe it to them to divorce and show them from YOUR home with them.

Not telling you to leave, just telling you don't STAY just so the kids don't end up in broken homes.


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## CH

Don't work on the marriage for the kids, worst mistake you'll ever make. You either get back into it to make it better for you and the wife or you get out and work on you and your kids.

Stay for the kids and you'll regret it years down the road. Stay because you want to stay, not because you don't want to break the family up.


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## Machiavelli

turnera said:


> Wait, you've only been married 5 years? Then run like the wind, man! People who cheat that early in a marriage are damaged goods and almost impossible to fix.


Op said she's had 30 plus guys before him and now a few afterward. She was damaged from the beginning.


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## Martinique78

Ok I have been in an uncontrolable rage the last few days. Nothing physical just fuming inside. The last few nights I have lashed out at her for what she has done and it's always the same story. She's sorry for what she did and she's working on making herslef better for me and for us. She said she didn't like the person she became and never wants to be that person again but I need to be willing to work with her and try to move on. I just cant seem to get past the fact that she cheated on me. Especially when she says it's because she had no self confidence and I wasn't there for her when she needed me.

Yesterday I printed out my texts between her and I during the period of the affair and on of the things I found was the day after the sexual acts occured she was talking about a long bath she just took while I was at work in the new jacuzzi tub I just installed for her and how she was feeling horny and was going to take care of herself and how she would enjoy it more if my **ck was in her mouth. I don't really see any remorse for what she did the night before. I actuall had sex with her that day twice because she and I were so horny that day. Makes me sick thinking about it. The worst thing is from that day on she was more sexually active with me more than she had been in a long time. Almost every day for two weeks.

I also found a picture message she sent me of her in her underware that turned out to be the same picture she sent the OM. I also found out from the phone records that she sent it to me and hour after she sent it to th OM. 

She's telling me I need to quit digging in the past because it's only fueling my anger and I will never move on. It's probably true becaus I don't feel like I want to move on with her. Why should I become a better man for her after what she did. So she gets the man she's always wanted and all I get is a WW. If I do change and become the person she wants me to be then she can say that her cheating was the best thing that could of happened. Then if something else comes up that she wants me to fix or I go back to my old ways that she will cheat again.

I have been telling her for the last three days that i'm done and I don't want to be with her. She keeps begging me to stay and that she is on the road to a better person. She also said it sucks that she is going to become this amazing person and I won't be around to see.

I just feel like she crossed a line that there is no coming back from and I don't want to wait and see if things get better. I'm 33 years old and this happened not even five years into our marriage, what's going to happen in another five years when I'm close to 40 and this happens again. At least now I still have the option of starting over.

We are both still going to IC, she said it's doing wonders for her but for me it just makes me more angry and all the emotions come bubbling back up.

I am just so ready to go for the D and start over.


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## Almostrecovered

anger stage

take some time before making any decisions, R or D


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## keko

You're still young, don't risk the rest your life for the very likely future affair she will have. Divorce her and move on.


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## Shaggy

Why don't you get away by yourself for a couple of days to just think alone without her badgering you?

Remind yourself, it is ok to divorce her. She chose to give herself to the OM. She chose to use you to satisfy her sexual appetite and desire for him those days after her first hookup. Sorry, but you didn't have sex with her. She was using you without feeling or care. You were only a toy during that time.

Get away alone and at the end ask yourself if you really missed her during that time? Or could you imagine a new better partner without the history of betrayal beside you.

You wouldn't be ending the marriage, she already did that. You would be rejecting her offer to remarry her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

Martinique, as someone whose been in a similar place as you, let me share, for me my ex was very doubtful she wanted to R, she certainly wasn't begging but she was saying she'd give it time (I knew that just wasn't in her nature to give things time though). I didn't want her to be a "better" or "amazing" person, I just wanted her to commit to the marriage so we could have a "better relationship".

She is still dealing with the lack of (or hopefully not continuation) affair chemicals in her brain.

So I agree with AR, take some time and keep observing her through the process - if she is remorseful she will learn to be patient, and if she is not willing to suffer through the patience of letting you heal from the pain she has caused then you will know if or when you want to cut her from your life.

Good luck I know its the hardest thing in the world right now, having to choose from choices you never wanted to have to choose from.


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## the guy

Its only been a month since you started your thread and you need to take some time and use this time to make a balance sheet in what will be best in the long run.

make no mistake, D takes as much work as R and they both suck but you have to take some time before you make a dicision that will effect the rest of your life.

Consider all your options, and the one that sticks out in my mind is you got a chick that digs fillatio...so that should go in the "keep wife" column. 

In my case I had alot more items in the "keep wife" column then I had in the "get rid of wife" column. I also read "After The affair" by Janis Springs. It gave some great perspective on the investment I made in the last 20 yrs of M and the 2 kids and all the crap I would have to split up.

I think the biggest selling point was my wifes actions after I confronted her, the second was the investments I made with my family. So make no mistake, its all about the remorse and what you are willing to forgive.

I guess in my case after years of pushing my fWW around and being forgiven for my abuse its easy for me to forgive her abuse. This may not be the case for you and it may be time to move on for you, but I just wanted to add my $0.02


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## happyman64

Martinique,

Patience. We all know how hard it is.

Your reasoning in your previous post is all in anger. And you have every right to be angry. 

What is interesting is that I detect that you still love your wife, you are terribly hurt by what she has done and you do not know what to do.....

This is quite normal. Typical at this stage where your hiead is at.

I think everyone made some good suggestions.

Get away for a few days by yourself.
Do not make any decisions towards R or D until your emotions flatten out.
Stop talking about the affair for a few days or weeks with your wife.
Keep going to counselling. Both of you.

I hope you find some peace soon. Stop driving yourself crazy about what has happened in the past. All those details are not helping you at all. They are just triggering you and making you angrier.

You already know she cheated.
She knows what she has done is wrong.
She is in IC to find out why she did what she did and avoid doing it again.

Again, it is always your choice to R or D. But it would not hurt to pullback on the digging up new info that keeps on hurting you more. That is like kicking yourself in the scrotum. I do not see where it is helping you.

HM64


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## CantSitStill

I am a WS and we are reconcilling but I just want to say if you don't trust her or if you want to make her miserable and not forgive her then the only choice you have is divorce..I would not be able to stay in my marriage if I was constantly being badgered for what I did or if he didn't trust me. That is no kind of marriage I would want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam

Take your time. You make the call on this.

If she was really that promicuous in her youth, however, she is likely a bad risk. She views sex as a sport or hobby.


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## Bottled Up

BigLiam said:


> If she was really that promicuous in her youth, however, she is likely a bad risk. She views sex as a sport or hobby.


Interesting, I never really thought of it that way. So if you are promiscuous when you're young would you say that you are more likely to treat sex as a hobby or as a sport when you get older? Is it possible that sex can be both a hobby and a sport at the same time?


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## CantSitStill

Maybe a trial seperation would be helpful for you to clear you mind and that way you have time to decide what you really want. For her sake really because if you are giving her false hope then it's gonna get worse. I wouldn"t want to be in either of your shoes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap

No, he shouldn't do anything for her sake at this point.

Do what you find is necessary for your healing and peace of mind. You may want a time off, but don't be too concerned about your wife.


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## BigLiam

Bottled Up said:


> Interesting, I never really thought of it that way. So if you are promiscuous when you're young would you say that you are more likely to treat sex as a hobby or as a sport when you get older? Is it possible that sex can be both a hobby and a sport at the same time?



JMHO, but, yes to both ?s.

That Athol Kay guy, you and someone else referred me to in another thread, refers to this.


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## Bottled Up

BigLiam said:


> JMHO, but, yes to both ?s.


The first question asks if someone is more likely to treat sex as one thing or the other thing. Hobby is not a Sport and Sport is not a Hobby, so "yes" is not an answer option. Please answer accordingly as I cannot compute this rationale.


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## BigLiam

Bottled Up said:


> The first question asks if someone is more likely to treat sex as one thing or the other thing. Hobby is not a Sport and Sport is not a Hobby, so "yes" is not an answer option. Please answer accordingly as I cannot compute this rationale.


Clearly, one can have a sport as a hobby. Broaden your horizons.


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## turnera

The thing is, you shouldn't make any decisions when you are emotional. There's no reason to decide today or this week or this month. Give yourself til the end of the summer before you decide what you're going to do. You should be able to see by then if she really has learned and changed. And you should have been in enough IC by then yourself to be able to see what you really need to do.


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## Bottled Up

BigLiam said:


> Clearly, one can have a sport as a hobby. Broaden your horizons.


Clearly not. Hobby by definition is an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure. Sport is an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others. Narrow your scope.


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## BigLiam

I play pro golf. I also engage in it in my leisure time. It is a sport and a hobby.


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## Bottled Up

BigLiam said:


> I play pro golf. I also engage in it in my leisure time. It is a sport and a hobby.


But that's question #2. I asked you to answer question #1.


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## BigLiam

Bottled Up said:


> But that's question #2. I asked you to answer question #1.


Again, yes to 1 and 2. Thanks for the concession on the definitions.


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## morituri

Martinique78 said:


> I'm 33 years old and this happened not even five years into our marriage, what's going to happen in another five years when I'm close to 40 and this happens again. At least now I still have the option of starting over.


I am 54 years old, twice married (first wife died of cancer, second wife cheated) and I'm in a committed relationship, again. And I'm not the only divorced man, past his 50's and beyond, that has started his life over.

Lastly, STOP pressuring on yourself to reconcile with your wife. As of D-day your marriage is on probation and if your wife doesn't like it then tough because this is one of the consequences that she has to pay as part of her betrayal to you. Give yourself a little bit of time before you make a life altering decision that you can live with and be at peace with. Even if you choose to divorce, it is NOT going to be the end of the world for your kids for you both will continue to take care of them and love them. Either way *you will make it*


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## Bottled Up

BigLiam said:


> Again, yes to 1 and 2. Thanks for the concession on the definitions.


Again, yes is not an option to 1. You're welcome for the concession though.


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## BigLiam

Bottled Up said:


> Again, yes is not an option to 1. You're welcome for the concession though.


I guess I need to know if you are using "or" as a conjunctive or asking something in the alternative.
See, a question like" is it more likely that a promiscuous person will treat sex as a sport or a hobby in the future?", could be answered "yes.
On the other hand, if you were asking whether one or the other was more likely, yes would not suffice.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt, presuming that you were asking the former, as the answer to the latter is inconsquential.


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## Bottled Up

BigLiam said:


> I guess I need to know if you are using "or" as a conjunctive or asking something in the alternative.
> See, a question like" is it more likely that a promiscuous person will treat sex as a sport or a hobby in the future?", could be answered "yes.
> On the other hand, if you were asking whether one or the other was more likely, yes would not suffice.
> I gave you the benefit of the doubt, presuming that you were asking the former, as the answer to the latter is inconsquential.


I don't need the benefit of doubt, I just need clarification on whether you think a young promiscuous person is more likely to grow up treating sex as a hobby or a sport. You've already indicated that you think it is possible they can treat it as both, but surely that's not the case for all of them. So for those who only fall one way or the other, do you think they are more likely to err on the side of hobby or sport?


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## CantSitStill

Well the only thing I know is my sister (love her dearly but..makes really bad choices) was very young, very sexual active and my gosh she's 44 and a sex addict and I mean with alot of men. Yuck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam

Bottled Up said:


> I don't need the benefit of doubt, I just need clarification on whether you think a young promiscuous person is more likely to grow up treating sex as a hobby or a sport. You've already indicated that you think it is possible they can treat it as both, but surely that's not the case for all of them. So for those who only fall one way or the other, do you think they are more likely to err on the side of hobby or sport?


Who said they are erring? It is just the way they are. No judgement on that. Sport, hobby, sacred, makes no diference to me, as long as I match up with my partner's values in this area.


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## iheartlife

Just chiming in to say, I agree with everyone saying you don't have to make a decision right this minute.

Nearly all couples in R go through the BS's anger stage where the BS rakes the WS over the coals and just can't let go. Basically, you were functioning in a state of shock and numbness before this, and now the emotions are fully hitting you. The state of shock is a natural coping mechanism that got you where you are: you did all the things you had to do to protect your family. You accomplished your short term mission--gathered intel, made sure the contact was cut off, persuaded your wife to stay and R.

Now the state of shock is wearing off. You accomplished your goal--but the truth of what she did is hitting you with maximum impact. It REALLY happened. As you sort through the facts of the past--you are lining up your old idea of reality with the truth. Everyone does this, I'm not different nor is any other BS. You look at the phone records, you look at your calendar, you compare and recollect what you thought was going on with the lies she was telling you and what was actually happening. You were taken for a fool, your complete trust in her was spat upon--it's infuriating.

This is a stage that cannot persist, and it won't. At some point your brain will process the fact that it really happened, and you are not going to wake up from the nightmare.

IMO, as others have also said, this is not a point at which to make any long-lasting choices. After the anger dissipates some, your brain will start thinking more clearly. I get that you fear that you may not recover enough to R. Do not fear that. Believe that the right choice for your family will become apparent as your mind clears and the most powerful emotions move behind you. It might be R--or it might be D.

You will always have strong emotions associated with her betrayal. They don't entirely go away. What happens is, they come out full force less and less frequently. The time between episodes lengthens more and more. But just like now is no time to quit your job, now is no time to throw in the towel. The time to make that choice is coming; you just need to reach a more contemplative stage before taking that step.


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## Chaparral

You have every right to divorce. However, you do have kids. Look at your kids, do a little research about children of divorce and children of infidelity. Also look at hte financial reppercusions. Generally a middle class family breaking up leads to a super cut in lifestyles for both partners and obviously the kids.

No, I'm also thinking of you too. But on your side you are going to deal with your wife as long as your kids are alive. You will get them one Christmas and she will get them the next Christmas. You will be cordinating with her for years and probably developing a hatred for her that you will have to live with.

In my opinion, and I heard a very good counselor reiterate this, divorce is really only good for getting even with the cheating spouse. It doesn't lessen the pain, I can tell you it never goes away completely, even after 35 years. I triggered so bad a year ago, drivng down a country lane, that it felt like it just happened a year ago.

Get to your doctor now and get some medical help. Find a counselor who is experienced in infidelity and PTSD. Be strong,save your family, be their leader. Its time for you to step up to the biggest challenge of your life............

Has your wife read with you the wayward spouse instructions?

Have you read MMSL and NMMNG?

80% of couples that divorce over infidelity regret the decision to break up their family and wish they had stayed together and worked it out.


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## iheartlife

Martinique, someone just reminded me of something.

I recollect that one of the issues you raised was that you have to work a lot, and hard, to make ends meet. And that it wasn't just the garage that your wife was complaining about, it was also that you were absent due to your jobs. 

Have you discussed the issue of budgeting and maybe cutting back on work so you can be together more? Where are you on this?


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## Vegemite

chapparal said:


> 80% of couples that divorce over infidelity regret the decision to break up their family and wish they had stayed together and worked it out.


Really? So it is better to stay with someone who has disrespected you, potentially exposed to STDs and put you through sheer hell? You don't love them because you can't.

Sorry. I find that stat. impossible to believe. Or it's too simplistic. Do you have a link?


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## Chaparral

Vegemite said:


> Really? So it is better to stay with someone who has disrespected you, potentially exposed to STDs and put you through sheer hell? You don't love them because you can't.
> 
> Sorry. I find that stat. impossible to believe. Or it's too simplistic. Do you have a link?


If I remember correctly, your wife is a serial cheater. It's said that they can't change and divorce is the default option.

You should google infidelity statistics. It is eye opening if somewhat contradictory.


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## Martinique78

chapparal said:


> You have every right to divorce. However, you do have kids. Look at your kids, do a little research about children of divorce and children of infidelity. Also look at hte financial reppercusions. Generally a middle class family breaking up leads to a super cut in lifestyles for both partners and obviously the kids.
> 
> No, I'm also thinking of you too. But on your side you are going to deal with your wife as long as your kids are alive. You will get them one Christmas and she will get them the next Christmas. You will be cordinating with her for years and probably developing a hatred for her that you will have to live with.
> 
> In my opinion, and I heard a very good counselor reiterate this, divorce is really only good for getting even with the cheating spouse. It doesn't lessen the pain, I can tell you it never goes away completely, even after 35 years. I triggered so bad a year ago, drivng down a country lane, that it felt like it just happened a year ago.
> 
> Get to your doctor now and get some medical help. Find a counselor who is experienced in infidelity and PTSD. Be strong,save your family, be their leader. Its time for you to step up to the biggest challenge of your life............
> 
> Has your wife read with you the wayward spouse instructions?
> 
> Have you read MMSL and NMMNG?
> 
> 80% of couples that divorce over infidelity regret the decision to break up their family and wish they had stayed together and worked it out.


I don't know what MMSL and NMMNG are. Can you clarify?



iheartlife said:


> Martinique, someone just reminded me of something.
> 
> I recollect that one of the issues you raised was that you have to work a lot, and hard, to make ends meet. And that it wasn't just the garage that your wife was complaining about, it was also that you were absent due to your jobs.
> 
> Have you discussed the issue of budgeting and maybe cutting back on work so you can be together more? Where are you on this?


No it still hasn't been addressed. We are still struggling right now but she has taken the effort to start shopping more wisely for groceries. She hasn't been going out at all and going to church stuff more.


Last Saturday was my youngest boys birthday. He's two. We had a small backyard party with a few friends and I put everything aside for him that day. I had a lot of fun playing with all the kids and talking with friends. After the day was done and the boys were in bed we sat outside and talked about some things. Mostely about how I didn't want to do this anymore. I wanted to leave so bad but after seeing how much fun we all had that day that I knew if we were to get a divorce that things would never be like that again.

She has been reading the five languages of love and I forwarded the WS checklist from the site to her. She told me that she has been doing all the things on the list I just haven't notice in my rage. I feel she is trying to fix things but I just don't want to recognize them or I'm just numb to the whole situation. 

I', still in the too little too late phase and I feel like I will never regain any respect for my wife. She told me that there will be no more sex until I can stop treating her like a piece of meat and that there is some emotion behind it. I haven't said "I love you" since I found out what happened. I use to give her a kiss every mornig before I went to work and now it's just "see you later". We still sleep in the same bed but there is always a huge gap between us. One night she scooted over and held me but I didn't know how to respond. Yesterday I kissed her and it was not the same. It's like everything I had for her is dead and I don't know how to get through what happened and start to heal.

I have been going to church every weekend and even thought about volunteering for a daddy/daughter dance they are having but I will be out of town. She has been going to bible study on wednesdays which she has never done before. I never really grew up going to church. I always felt there was someone up there looking over me but never really understood it. Now as all of this is unfolding I feel the faith that I was starting to aquire over the last five years going with my wife has vanished. I want to support my in her going back to church but I feel that I have just been let down too many times to continue to go.

When I first started to suspect things were going on I prayed and I asked for a sign that I was wrong about what I thought my wife was doing. Little did in know the sign I would receive is the one that showed me my wife was cheating. That just turned me right off of my faith. Why god...why are you putting me through this a third time and why did it have to be my wife. The other two times I was cheated on were only girlfriends and it was easy to just walk away.

I need to get away for a few days but I am so broke right now that I cant even afford the gas to go anywhere. We have her sisters wedding in two weeks and then the wedding in Lousiana the week after that. That will probably be my only chance to get away by myself and of course it's to a wedding.


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## bandit.45

Vegemite said:


> Really? So it is better to stay with someone who has disrespected you, potentially exposed to STDs and put you through sheer hell? You don't love them because you can't.
> 
> Sorry. I find that stat. impossible to believe. Or it's too simplistic. Do you have a link?


I've asked the same question about you Veggie. Have you filed for divorce on your serial cheating lunatic wife?


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## Shaggy

Martinique78 said:


> She told me that there will be no more sex until I can stop treating her like a piece of meat and that there is some emotion behind it.


Wait, she's the one who cheated, did all she did, even tried to have him come over etc. 

AND SHE is cutting off sex and saying the problem is that you need to change?

That doesn't sound like remorse to me.


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## bandit.45

> She told me that there will be no more sex until I can stop treating her like a piece of meat and that there is some emotion behind it.


Amazing how she continues to gaslight and try to control the situation, just like she when she called you nuts and tried to convince you and everyone else that you were crazy when you first found out about her little sexcapades in the OM's truck.

I don't see real remorse here. I see an impatient, controlloing woman trying to make you sweep it all under the rug. 

You are in false Reconcilliation my friend. False as it can be.

Oh, and all that churchy stuff is her rebuilding her tarnished reputation...it has nothing to do with becoming a better wife to you.


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## lovelygirl

Yeah, funny how she's the one who cheated and now she's putting conditions on you and wants things her way.


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## turnera

NMMNG is No More Mr Nice Guy. It's a book all men should read to learn to stop being led by women.


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## morituri

I had to laugh at her ludicrous "no sex until" statement to you. She may think that she's punishing you but quite the opposite, she's empowering you to continue to emotionally detach from her until one day no matter how much she pleads for you to have sex with her, you will no longer be sexually attracted to her and when that happens, the marriage will be beyond reconciliation.


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## iheartlife

Martinique78 said:


> When I first started to suspect things were going on I prayed and I asked for a sign that I was wrong about what I thought my wife was doing. Little did in know the sign I would receive is the one that showed me my wife was cheating. That just turned me right off of my faith. Why god...why are you putting me through this a third time and why did it have to be my wife. The other two times I was cheated on were only girlfriends and it was easy to just walk away.


Listen, I'm religious but what I'm going to say isn't to persuade you to have faith in God. That's something you have to acquire for yourself.

But if you believe God gave people free will, and that we are not puppets, then God didn't make your wife cheat, and he didn't make the girlfriends cheat, either.

What is the common denominator with 3 women cheating on you? It's you. You don't have control over whether your partner cheats on you, but you do have control over yourself.

If there is a God, he certainly answered your prayer and everyone can see it, except you. Your wife chose to selfishly cheat and she p*ssed on God when she did that just as she p*ssed on you. So now you wish that God gaslighted you just like your wife? I don't get your logic.

If I had prayed that prayer and then felt that I was immediately led to confirmation that my wife was cheating, I'd take that as a sign that God was protecting me from myself and that he was in MY corner, and not my cheating wife's.

This is not about religion. This is not about God. This is about you changing from the inside out, so that whether with your wife or some other woman, you do not allow the most important person in your life to treat you like a doormat.

Holding sex over your head like some kind of weapon during R is not R.

Speaking of which, have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy (NMMNG) or Married Man Sex Life (MMSL)?


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## Martinique78

From what I get from her, she is denying sex because she feels like a ***** with the way I treat her. She basically says if she wants to heal and be able to have respect for herself, she cant do that with the way I say it's not making love right now it's just sex. I haven't felt the same when we have had sex. There is no emotion involved with it right now. It's just so I can feel something again that feels good.

I'm worried that what morituri said will hold true. I will start to desire her less and less until there is nothing. I can already feel it happening. Especially now that she has stopped going to the gym. She has been gaining weight at a rapid pace while I have been getting into the best shape I have been in a long time. It hurts so bad to think that now that her affair is over that she doesn't feel the need to keep up her apperance for me. That would have been a sign to me that she was trying but now it's like I just get whats left over. A broken woman. 

We have gone down this road before. We get into a huge fight over something and the other person vows to change and it lasts for a few weeks to a month and then things slowly go back to where they were. I feel like we are in the honymoon stage of her R and it will eventually go back to old habits again.


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## iheartlife

Have you read NMMNG and MMSL?


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## morituri

Though I understand, to a point, her reason for cutting out sex, it should not be a unilateral decision otherwise it may very well backfire on her. A sexual moratorium like the one described in Dr Robert Glover's book *No More Mr Nice Guy* (download a free copy of it) may be what you need so *READ IT*


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## turnera

Martinique78 said:


> There is no emotion involved with it right now. It's just so I can feel something again that feels good.


FTR, for many women, this is not true. You need to understand that, for most women, they have to have an emotional connection BEFORE they do it. So if there isn't a connection right now, her saying that she won't do it just for the sake of doing it is actually an admirable trait.


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## turnera

Martinique78 said:


> It hurts so bad to think that now that her affair is over that she doesn't feel the need to keep up her apperance for me.


Tell her that.


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## Machiavelli

turnera said:


> Tell her that.


So she can reply that he's "so shallow?"


----------



## iheartlife

turnera said:


> FTR, for many women, this is not true. You need to understand that, for most women, they have to have an emotional connection BEFORE they do it. So if there isn't a connection right now, her saying that she won't do it just for the sake of doing it is actually an admirable trait.


I agree.

I think the crux of the issue is that sex is such a profound way for a husband to express his love for his wife.

Her saying this is simply the typical wife's way of not understanding this. If she KNEW this she'd be begging for sex because she'd realize that sex is a powerful way to strengthen the marriage bond.

As the wife in R, I do know this and have internalized it. So in the beginning I was making the point of having sex with my husband as much as possible. Now we're starting to achieve a balance where we're both doing the asking and conscious that it needs to happen 2 or 3 times or more per week.

On the other hand, Martinique, unlike his wife, knows this to his core. And he knows they should be having sex to strengthen the marriage, but he has just enough disinclination to R that he isn't pushing it.

So my suggestion is to sit down and explain this to her. That sex is not about getting off. That it is a way of expressing love to her. And that the longer you go without sex the weaker your mutual bond becomes. That it isn't about release, it's about showing her true love in the most intimate way you know how. And that through sex she will bond more strongly to you as well.


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## morituri

Martinique78 please read the following.



Dr Robert Glover said:


> *
> No matter what your sexual situation is, it can be a powerful learning experience. Most guys initially resist the idea, but once they make the decision to do it, they find it to be a very positive experience. A sexual moratorium can have many benefits:
> l
> Helps break dysfunction cycles.
> l
> Eliminates pursuing and distancing.
> l
> Releases resentment.
> l
> Allows the Nice Guy to see that he can live without sex.
> l
> Helps the Nice Guy realize that no one else but him holds the key to his sexual experience.
> l
> Helps the Nice Guy see how he settles for bad sex.
> l
> Eliminates fear that the Nice Guy's partner can withhold sex or approval.
> l
> Helps the Nice Guy pay attention to the meaning of sexual impulses. Whenever the Nice Guy feels the impulse to be sexual, he can automatically ask himself, "Why am I feeling sexual?"
> l
> Helps break addictive patterns by eliminating compulsive masturbation, pornography, and other addictive behaviors.
> l
> Helps the Nice Guy begin to address feelings he has been avoiding with sex.*


----------



## turnera

Machiavelli said:


> So she can reply that he's "so shallow?"


 Of course not. So that he and she can start having real discussions about what a man and a woman should be able to want and expect out of a marriage. If you can't tell your spouse such things, you shouldn't be married.


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## turnera

What's the saying? 

Men have sex to feel love. Women find love to have sex.


----------



## Martinique78

iheartlife said:


> Have you read NMMNG and MMSL?


I just downloaded NMMNG and I have strated reading it. I'll need to buy MMSL when I'm not broke and read that as well.

One thing I forgot was that last night I had a dream that I had started over with a new woman no one specific just not my wife. There was no sex involved in the dream. Just the normal stuff that couples do. I remember we were walking through Home Depot (don't laugh) and somehow we got seperated and when I turned a corner to go down an isle I seen her and there was butterflies. The feeling was so strong that it woke me up. I just want to feel those butterflies again so bad...instead of shame


----------



## turnera

Why do you feel shame?


----------



## lovelygirl

Martinique78 said:


> From what I get from her, she is denying sex because she feels like a ***** with the way I treat her. She basically says if she wants to heal and be able to have respect for herself, she cant do that with the way I say it's not making love right now it's just sex. I haven't felt the same when we have had sex. There is no emotion involved with it right now. It's just so I can feel something again that feels good.
> 
> I'm worried that what morituri said will hold true. I will start to desire her less and less until there is nothing. I can already feel it happening. Especially now that she has stopped going to the gym. She has been gaining weight at a rapid pace while I have been getting into the best shape I have been in a long time.* It hurts so bad to think that now that her affair is over that she doesn't feel the need to keep up her apperance for me. * That would have been a sign to me that she was trying but now it's like I just get whats left over. A broken woman.
> 
> We have gone down this road before. We get into a huge fight over something and the other person vows to change and it lasts for a few weeks to a month and then things slowly go back to where they were. I feel like we are in the honymoon stage of her R and it will eventually go back to old habits again.


She's trying to have your forgiveness without trying at all.

I don't think she deserves you anymore.


----------



## BigLiam

turnera said:


> What's the saying?
> 
> Men have sex to feel love. Women find love to have sex.


Who came up with that one? Do you subscribe to it? It is nothing like what I have experienced. Most of the women I meet push for sex asap.


----------



## turnera

Read textbooks on it. It's standard fare.


----------



## Vegemite

chapparal said:


> You should google infidelity statistics. It is eye opening if somewhat contradictory.


Chapparal, I hear you. I think studies can be done to prove anything. I guess I got a bit sick of seeing sites that claim high success rates in R. You know the ones's. Woman says "my husbands affair has made our marriage stronger". Buy our DVD/book and we will show you how.

Research results are all over the place. A few books by Michelle Langley, focusing on men in particular, as BS's, showed that men especially often regret the decision to R. I don't know

Peace.


----------



## Vegemite

bandit.45 said:


> I've asked the same question about you Veggie. Have you filed for divorce on your serial cheating lunatic wife?


I haven't left my CW so I shouldn't make judgement??

Fair enough, you've got a point.


----------



## morituri

Martinique78 said:


> I just want to feel those butterflies again so bad...instead of shame


Perhaps your shame has to do with you perceiving yourself as being weak because you did not kicked her to the curb after you discovered her betrayal. You are not weak! Just the opposite. You are doing your best to come out of this sh!tty ordeal in a way that will lessen the pain to others, in particular your children. That is the sign of a strong man. You have nothing to be ashamed of.


----------



## Complexity

I see no future with this woman Martin.


----------



## Martinique78

Well yesterday was a bad day. On my way to meet my WW at the doctors I was stopped at a light and I happened to look over and there at the gas station was the OM putting gas in his car. My heart imediatly dropped and I felt sick. Just looking at him brought everything back full force. I noticed him look up and I know he had to see me. My truck sticks out plus he knows it pretty well. As I pulled away I could just feel that he was laughing at me.

As we were leaving the doctors she could tell something was wrong and she asked whats up. I told her that I had seen him on the way there. She asked, on purpose? I told her no I dont ever want to see him again why would I go looking you him. It's just that he lives so close it's hard not to run into him. She asked if there was anything she could do to help and I said no. Later when we got home she asked again if there was anything she could do and I told her there is nothing she could do to fix the feeling I had. I told her it felt like someone ripped my balls off. I went an changed and she was starting to make dinner and asked if I wanted to take out some anger pounding the chicked she was making I said no and that I was going to take my anger out on my truck in the garage.

After dinner and when the boys went to bed she came out to the garage and asked if I needed any help. I told her no, not because I didn't want her help but becaus I really didn't have anything for her to do. She came back out a few more times asking again but the answer was still no.

I feel that each day I'm drifting further from her and my desire to fix things is getting less. I just don't want to be around her. Looking at her is painful and all I can keep thinking is "how could you do this to someone that you say you love." I had a few friends that had cheating spouses and I always told her and myself that I was so glad that I never had to worry about something like that. She would respond with "we make a pretty good team". All I ever did was try to give my family the best life I could provide for them and I feel like she is just working aginst me.

I have my IC today and I don't even know what to talk to her about besides the fact that I just want to take my boys and never see her again.


----------



## lovelygirl

What a disappointment she caused you. 
Poor you.


----------



## turnera

Have you read the book Surviving An Affair? It will help you see that, while she was totally responsible, getting in an affair is sometimes a sideways trip, one that people wouldn't do if they didn't have those PEA chemicals flowing through their brains.


----------



## lovelygirl

Also, why don't you hang out with friends who have gone through the same thing?
They could help you more than you can help yourself. 

Did you friends go through D or R?


----------



## Shaggy

Are you two in MC together with someone who deals with cheating? 

Because someone needs to sit your wife down an teach her about the pain and loss you are feeling. Your marriage died when she cheated, as did your trust in her. You are grieving that loss and the rage from how you had no say or control in the event.

You're wife badgering you isn't helping and when you send her away, all she is hearing is you rejecting her - not that you are in agony.

Perhaps your IC could talk to her and help her understand the emotional turmoil you are going through. 

And it's something you personally must work through before you are ready to seriously engage in any possible R.

Right now I fear you are a poweder keg, while she is bouncing around clueless about what she can do.


----------



## Martinique78

turnera said:


> Have you read the book Surviving An Affair? It will help you see that, while she was totally responsible, getting in an affair is sometimes a sideways trip, one that people wouldn't do if they didn't have those PEA chemicals flowing through their brains.


Not yet...everyone is suggesting some good reading I just need to get ahold of them.



lovelygirl said:


> Also, why don't you hang out with friends who have gone through the same thing?
> They could help you more than you can help yourself.
> 
> Did you friends go through D or R?


Every one of my friends went with the D. 



Shaggy said:


> Are you two in MC together with someone who deals with cheating?
> 
> Because someone needs to sit your wife down an teach her about the pain and loss you are feeling. Your marriage died when she cheated, as did your trust in her. You are grieving that loss and the rage from how you had no say or control in the event.
> 
> You're wife badgering you isn't helping and when you send her away, all she is hearing is you rejecting her - not that you are in agony.
> 
> Perhaps your IC could talk to her and help her understand the emotional turmoil you are going through.
> 
> And it's something you personally must work through before you are ready to seriously engage in any possible R.
> 
> Right now I fear you are a poweder keg, while she is bouncing around clueless about what she can do.


We are both working with the same conselor but seperatly. We only had one session together to talk about the affair. She doesn't specialize in cheating but she is a christian based conselor which was important to us. 

The problem is that I dont even know what to tell her she can do to help fix things. The worst part is that me turning her away means she's in the house alone and that's what started this whole mess with her cheating.

I keep thinking if I get past this enough to stay what's going to happen in the fall when we both start up classes again. Will I be checking phone records, emails, texts, tracking all the time, wondering if she's at class the entire time or out in the parking lot fooling around again? I don't want to live a life like that. Plus I go on a lot of work trips sometimes for one or two weeks. It would be so easy for her to cheat again without me knowing. Even if she didn't cheat I would still be thinking she could be.

I just don't deserve this life...this can't be my life


----------



## turnera

Lots of people reconcile and find ways to ease their fears. Like skyping every night, stuff like that.


----------



## morituri

Go see your doctor to have him/her prescribe you some AD (anti-depressants). They won't solve your problem but they will help you get control of the overwhelming gang of emotions of anger, grief, shame and despair, so that you can emotionally detach from your wife.

Stop pressuring yourself as far as R, you may still get D once some time has passed and you reach the conclusion that it will be better for you and the kids.


----------



## iheartlife

Shaggy said:


> Are you two in MC together with someone who deals with cheating?
> 
> Because someone needs to sit your wife down an teach her about the pain and loss you are feeling. Your marriage died when she cheated, as did your trust in her. You are grieving that loss and the rage from how you had no say or control in the event.


100% agree, this is essential I believe



morituri said:


> Go see your doctor to have him/her prescribe you some AD (anti-depressants). They won't solve your problem but they will help you get control of the overwhelming gang of emotions of anger, grief, shame and despair, so that you can emotionally detach from your wife.


100% agree, also essential. They get you out of the bottom of the trench so you can think clearly and make good choices. Doesn't make you happy or "fix" you, just helps your brain return to a normal state so you aren't operating from pure negative emotion.



turnera said:


> Have you read the book Surviving An Affair? It will help you see that, while she was totally responsible, getting in an affair is sometimes a sideways trip, one that people wouldn't do if they didn't have those PEA chemicals flowing through their brains.


Love this book, also Not Just Friends. I know you are having trouble affording them. *See if your library carries them, and if they don't, ask for them and any other books via interlibrary loan*


----------



## Martinique78

morituri said:


> Go see your doctor to have him/her prescribe you some AD (anti-depressants). They won't solve your problem but they will help you get control of the overwhelming gang of emotions of anger, grief, shame and despair, so that you can emotionally detach from your wife.
> 
> Stop pressuring yourself as far as R, you may still get D once some time has passed and you reach the conclusion that it will be better for you and the kids.


I have been on AD since I first started suspecting that my wife was cheating. She's the on that said I needed to be on them for the thoughts I was having about her cheating. Only after I found everything out did the doctor up my dosage from 20mg to 40mg. I don't know if the effects of them are just wearing off but if they are helping it's not by much.

I'll check out the library for these books...I completely forgot to check there.


----------



## iheartlife

Martinique78 said:


> I'll check out the library for these books...I completely forgot to check there.


Every library can request books they don't have from neighboring libraries. It can take a while, which is a bummer, but it can be done. MMSL as a self-published book may be harder to get. You could try PMing the author, Athol, he is a member of this forum and maybe he has some ideas on how to get a copy.


----------



## morituri

Martinique78 said:


> I have been on AD since I first started suspecting that my wife was cheating. She's the on that said I needed to be on them for the thoughts I was having about her cheating. Only after I found everything out did the doctor up my dosage from 20mg to 40mg. I don't know if the effects of them are just wearing off but if they are helping it's not by much.


Since everybody is different, there is not going to be one type of AD that will help everybody, so go back to your doctor and tell him/her that the ones he/she prescribed you are really not taking effect. Perhaps he/she can switch you to a different type of AD.


----------



## Complexity

Beyond the initial rush to fix fix fix, reality sinks in and it's part of the reason why the majority of people end up divorcing. They can't stand the depression and resentment, it's the primary thing that makes you lose love for your spouse. This isn't what you went in for.


----------



## aug

check out the adverse effects of the antidepressant. google "antidepressant adverse effects"

For eg, anxiety is a side effect.


----------



## mackerel

I have read this whole thread, and I am astonished at the people who are telling you to Reconcile? The writing was on the wall about this "woman" before you met her. 

Red Flags:
- 20-30 sex partners that she told you. (double that for women)
- Low self esteem 
- No confidence (only you can give it to her)
- Drinks and go to bars
- No job, just sitting in the house all day (school doesn't count)
- You moved the broad in your house before marriage

I'm guessing you took some tramp in, felt sorry for, knocked her up and decided you had to marry her. Sorry to tell you buddy, She was a known Hoe before you got with her. You don't marry women with self esteem issues, daddy issues, and promiscuity issues. ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER. You think all these "nice" things she's doing is just going to go away. This chick is only like 30. She's still young. It's only a matter of time before she does it again. And believe me she will do it again.

Get the divorce. Please stop the *****footing. Why do you keep giving in to her? She cheated and schemed on you because she knew she could get away with it. Let someone tell me she isn’t giving me any snatch, and see what happens. You need to have a little more backbone my brother. You can’t let her get away with this crap.

She is NO GOOD. Your only shame should have been marrying her. You can see the clear picture. She freed you up man. I’m positive you will find another woman that is 20x better. The Bible says not to be unevenly yoked. Don’t bring trash bags into an already clean house.


----------



## Chaparral

Print this off and make your wife read it:

Read this:

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


----------



## Martinique78

mackerel said:


> I have read this whole thread, and I am astonished at the people who are telling you to Reconcile? The writing was on the wall about this "woman" before you met her.
> 
> Red Flags:
> - 20-30 sex partners that she told you. (double that for women)
> - Low self esteem
> - No confidence (only you can give it to her)
> - Drinks and go to bars
> - No job, just sitting in the house all day (school doesn't count)
> - You moved the broad in your house before marriage
> 
> I'm guessing you took some tramp in, felt sorry for, knocked her up and decided you had to marry her. Sorry to tell you buddy, She was a known Hoe before you got with her. You don't marry women with self esteem issues, daddy issues, and promiscuity issues. ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER. You think all these "nice" things she's doing is just going to go away. This chick is only like 30. She's still young. It's only a matter of time before she does it again. And believe me she will do it again.
> 
> Get the divorce. Please stop the *****footing. Why do you keep giving in to her? She cheated and schemed on you because she knew she could get away with it. Let someone tell me she isn’t giving me any snatch, and see what happens. You need to have a little more backbone my brother. You can’t let her get away with this crap.
> 
> She is NO GOOD. Your only shame should have been marrying her. You can see the clear picture. She freed you up man. I’m positive you will find another woman that is 20x better. The Bible says not to be unevenly yoked. Don’t bring trash bags into an already clean house.


That's not how it happened at all. We were dating for a while I got my first apartment and a few weeks later she moved in. I didn't know anything about her troubled past until way later in our relationship. I figured all people have their experiementing stage and figured hers was over. We lived together for two years and then got married. A year later we both decided to have kids. After the kids were born she got depressed with her life and wanted to have a career of her own so I told her to go back to school. Then after four semesters of school she had the affair.

Trust me, there is no ****yfooting around. I'm taking my time to figure out whats best before I react on emotion.



chapparal said:


> Print this off and make your wife read it:
> 
> Read this:
> 
> Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.
> 
> The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.
> 
> YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.
> 
> They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.
> 
> It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?
> 
> As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”
> 
> The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?
> 
> Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)
> 
> But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.
> 
> So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:
> 
> What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.
> 
> Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.
> 
> You can be a positive influence on their recovery.
> 
> Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.
> 
> Your first mission is to learn.
> 
> Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
> this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
> Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”
> 
> Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.
> 
> SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS
> 
> DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)
> 
> SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.
> 
> REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.
> 
> CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)
> 
> PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”
> 
> CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)
> 
> SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.
> 
> NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.
> 
> Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.
> 
> WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.
> 
> INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
> Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”
> 
> A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)
> 
> INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.
> 
> REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.
> 
> IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.
> 
> FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.
> 
> BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.
> 
> WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.
> 
> EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.
> 
> TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.
> 
> Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.
> 
> Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.
> 
> It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.
> 
> SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?
> 
> Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.
> 
> This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.
> 
> GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.
> 
> APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.
> 
> REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.
> 
> HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.
> 
> You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.
> 
> The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.
> 
> SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.
> 
> PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.
> 
> SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.
> 
> LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.
> 
> HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”
> 
> These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
> moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
> comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:
> 
> A statement of gratitude.
> 
> An expression of your love.
> 
> An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.
> 
> An admission that you caused their pain.
> 
> An expression of your sense of shame.
> 
> A promise that it will never happen again
> 
> Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.
> 
> SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?
> 
> HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
> for others.
> 
> COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.
> 
> SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
> begin exploring new involvements.
> 
> PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.
> 
> LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.
> 
> FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.
> 
> Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


It's funny that you said that because I did a couple days ago and she responded with "I'm doing everything on this list...what haven't I done?"


----------



## turnera

You're right to take your time making a decision; it will affect the rest of your life. As for her saying she's doing all those things, remind her that at this point it doesn't matter what SHE thinks she's doing, what matters is how YOU feel she's doing.


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## Martinique78

Some good news today. The wife is in full R mode. Last night we sat down and she described the affair from start to finish. Even the very hard details about the night of the PA. She admitted that it was all on her and that she should not have drank as much as she did that night. Apparently he tried to kiss her earlier that night but the sturned him away so he just kept feeding her drinks. when it was time to go home they were parked in the same lot and she was wasted and on antidepressants that screwed her up even more. He made his move and kissed her again and talked her into getting into his truck. Some talking went on and she said everything got foggy and they started kissing again and he proceeded to remove her top and unbutton her pants. He used his hand on her in and out two or three times and then she stopped him and put her bra back on. He then got upset and made her feel bad for leaving him with blue balls and that it hurt. He pulled it out, she said she laughed cause it was so small and said what do you expect me to do with that. Then said come on just really quick thats bulls **** for you to get me excited and leave me like this. Then he said lets just have sex but she said no way I cant do that. So she gave him oral sex in and out three times then she said I can do this either. She got dressed and came home. 

She told him that could never happen again the days after but he wouldn't stop with the sexual suggestions and asking for it again. He would text her during class trying to get her to go to the bar again to get drunk. A week or two later is when she went to the bar with a girlfriend that he ended up showing up at. After her friend left he tried to lure her inside his truck again because he wanted more from her and she said absolutely not...never again.

I asked why she continued to talk to him even though he didn't lay off. She said she was afraid I would suspect something if she just all of a sudden stopped talking to him. Plus she actually thought if she could get him to stop she said in a sick way I thought we could have all just been friends because he was so much like me. He worked on cars like me and was interested in the same stuff I was. She said looking back now I knew it would never have worked.

She said the only time she used sexual favors towards him was the night what the VAR was in the car. She said she only said those things to get him to come over and meet me and hoped it would hit home to him that she was married and that's why she couldnt ever do those things again and he would lay off and just become friends. She said I knew that's what he wanted from me and he would do anythig to get her to pleasure him again. He was to afraid of me to come over without motivation. She said she never planned on following through with anything just like she didn't from the night of the affair and on. 

I asked what if he didn't stop. Then she said she would send me after him for harassing her after she came clean about what had happened.

I can see how my wife lost he inhibitions when she was drunk because she has done it with me as well. she has done things with me while she was drunk that she would never even consider sober.

I just have a hard time beleiving everything after the affair becaus I knew if she was to break it off from him the first time it caused a fight in our relationship (which was the night of the affair) that I wouldn't have been suspecious, I would have bee happy that she did it to help our marriage. So how much do I take for the truth and whats BS?

She has bee very open with my questions, there has been absolutely no contact with him since I found everything out. She gave me all her passwords and account info. She has told her mom and plans to tell our pastor once we have developed a better feel for our new church thats close to home. She is even going to bible study on wednesdays. She said she will never go to the bar without me except when she goes out with female friends that I trust. No more male friends period and we will only develop relationships with couples our own age. No more deleating texts and I can check them with the bill to make sure they add up. When she goes back to school she will be on the phone with me from the time she leaves the driveway to the time she walks in the door to class and the same after class. I can track her on the iphone as much as I want and she cant go out unless her phone is charged so I don't get the "my phone died excuse".

She said she is willing to do anything to regain my trust and she really feels she's on the right path to being a better person for herself and for us if I choose to stay.

We have talked a lot the last few days and found out more about each other than we ever knew. I wish we could have talked like this before because maybe we could have seen this coming and stopped it.

I'm still afraid that I will never be able to let go of the past but I guess that's just something you have to wait and find out.

PS
She has also been texting me random aplogizes through the day.


----------



## TBT

The explanation sounds pretty weak to me.and there were plenty of times she could have stopped,but chose not to.But that's just me.You know her and if her story is what you choose to believe then the best of luck to you.


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## turnera

I can see someone getting caught up in the flattery and not wanting it to end. Just for the record, though, I'm on antidepressants and I drink all the time and it has abosolutely no effect on me other than what the alcohol would do on its own. So don't let her use the 'the ADs made me act wrong' crap.


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## mackerel

Don't fall for it dude. She basically just blamed it on the alcohol. Then proceeded to say it was mostly him doing the pursuing. The details don't matter. Most men are the primary aggressors during sex, when they are about to do the deed. The fact is she wanted this man to do it.

Don't fall for the " I turned him away's" and "he kissed me crap". It's all a ploy. Drinking didn't cause this situation. Anti depressants didn't either. It's ultimately your decision, but past history is the best evidence of future indicators. I wish you well, buddy.


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## warlock07

One more repentant wife whose AP's **** was small.


----------



## TDSC60

Martinique78 said:


> A week or two later is when she went to the bar with a girlfriend that he ended up showing up at. After her friend left he tried to lure her inside his truck again because he wanted more from her and she said absolutely not...never again.


Devils advocate here.

If she did not get into the truck with him the second time, how did her phone end up in his truck? Your first post said after the second bar meeting you located her missing phone in his truck.

Did she throw it through the window at him or did it possibly drop out of her pocket when her pants were on the floor.


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## keko

Oh boy, he's being played for a fool...


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## Lon

warlock07 said:


> One more repentant wife whose AP's **** was small.


yeah its like they're trying to leave you with one little piece of your dignity intact somehow, probably think they are pretty good wives for being able to console you about the size of your manhood.


----------



## mackerel

"I figured all people have their experiementing stage and figured hers was over. We lived together for two years and then got married."

NOT TRUE, buddy. Virtuous women don't have "experimenting stages". I'm pretty sure there are some good women at the Church you are attending. Plenty of good and faithful women in the sea.
Plus living together before getting married is a risk that most often fails.


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## baldmale

I would insist on a polygraph in this case. Her story about the details sounds like so many other WW stories on here (including mine). Believe nothing. If you really want the truth use a polygraph.


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## lovelygirl

Martinique78 said:


> A week or two later is when she went to the bar with a girlfriend that* he ended up showing up at*. After her friend left he tried to lure her inside his truck again because he wanted more from her and she said absolutely not...never again.


This is code for "I knew he would show up there that day so that's why I went there too".
And the fact that her friend left earlier it's code for "I agreed with my friend to leave so that I could be alone with him"

Believe me, girls do that. I've done it with my girlfriends when I wanted to be left in the company of my crush.




> She said she was afraid I would suspect something if she just all of a sudden stopped talking to him.


Stupid reason.

She didn't like his sexual pressure yet she went in his truck for the second time.


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## BigLiam

What a complete crock of shiiite. Are you in the market for a bridge or some waterfront property in AZ?


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## iheartlife

I would tell her, no bars period without me. She was at the bar with a GF and at least the second time your WS got in trouble after the GF left. So whether GF was toxic or no, she ended up alone w. him. I just don't see how the 'new' way is any different.

Restaurants, fine, and before a certain hour. But no bars without you. If she's going to blame the alcohol, this is a modest boundary to set and one that many married couples use anyhow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon

baldmale said:


> I would insist on a polygraph in this case. Her story about the details sounds like so many other WW stories on here (including mine). Believe nothing. If you really want the truth use a polygraph.


If his W has already trickle-truthed almost everything out anyway, I don't think a polygraph is going to shed any new light on things for Martinique, it comes down to how willing he is to be deceived and how long he wants to stick his head in the sand - if he is willnig to let her blameshift she will have no problem uttering the facts because he is convinced that she is a good person who couldn't make those choices to hurt their marriage willingly. By him blaming the AD's and alcohol he is absolving her of her personal responsibility and she will have to make no changes in order to get the best of both worlds - A loving supportive H who provides and listens to her problems and the knowledge that she can go mess around and just blame the circumstance and keep the status quo.


----------



## bandit.45

BigLiam said:


> What a complete crock of shiiite. Are you in the market for a bridge or some waterfront property in AZ?


Make sure you name me listing agent on that.


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## Shaggy

Have here plain the phone, and the have her take the polygraph.

I know you want to believe her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

Martin - These are your words you wrote from your first POST:

"One day I slipped a voice recorder in the car she took to school last week and I recorded a conversation between him and her. She was trying to convince him to come over and meet me so I could become friends with him and allow her to continue to hang out with him without me giving her **** for it. She offered to make love to him, let him eat her out and even give him a blow job if he would just agree to come over and meet me." 

Was she drunk here as well ??


----------



## iheartlife

jh52 said:


> Martin - These are your words you wrote from your first POST:
> 
> "One day I slipped a voice recorder in the car she took to school last week and I recorded a conversation between him and her. She was trying to convince him to come over and meet me so I could become friends with him and allow her to continue to hang out with him without me giving her **** for it. She offered to make love to him, let him eat her out and even give him a blow job if he would just agree to come over and meet me."
> 
> Was she drunk here as well ??


Yes, that is the part that I return to over and over. It's the most implausible part of the story.

I could sort of buy into the idea that she wanted him to leave her alone after letting things go too far. And I could sort of buy into wanting the guy to meet my husband so he would lay off. But I can't see how promising sexual favors would accomplish that task. Promise him all kinds of sexual favors, lure him home to meet your husband, have them become friends and then the favors will be given? Does that seem like a way to get someone you want to get away from to back off?


----------



## Shaggy

So on the first day with the var you just happened to nail the single worst call.? Dude, by that lottery ticket!

Have you pulled her cell phone records to see how often she was calling him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

It does sound like she's trying. I'll give her props for that. I think her drinking is your biggest problem.

Good luck and prayers.


----------



## Jibril

chapparal said:


> It does sound like she's trying. I'll give her props for that. I think her drinking is your biggest problem.
> 
> Good luck and prayers.


I dunno about that...

Sounds to me like she doesn't want to be _divorced_, and she's trying to keep the peace. She's telling him what she has because he cornered her and caught her entirely within her lie, so she's fessing up and telling what she cannot hide.

Martinique78's story on the previous page smells an awful lot like BS. She injects awkward flattery to make him feel better about the affair. Statements like -

"He pulled it out, she said she laughed cause it was so small and said what do you expect me to do with that."

and 

"So she gave him oral sex in and out three times then she said I can do this either. She got dressed and came home."

- Sound more like damage control, with her trying to convince her betrayed spouse that the incident wasn't as serious as it actually was.

Judging by what has been revealed over the course of this topic, it seems to me like the wife wanted to maintain the affair - she _liked_ the other man. She admits she likes him and wants to continue seeing him in the recorded conversation. Her reason for continuing to see him are highly suspect too (I think they're an outright crock of ****, honestly).

It's clear the wife doesn't want to lose her marriage with Martinique78. At the same time, she's still trickling truths to him in hopes that she satisfies his inquiries, without having to be completely honest.

Sadly, I don't have any good advice to give Martinique78. Just, don't get too complacent, and don't assume because she's being more outgoing with certain details, that you guys are in full R mode. I definitely wish you luck, since I truly believe you can work through this affair. But be vigilant, and see that she adheres to your rules.


----------



## warlock07

I think she is fooling herself and rewriting the history whether it is intentional or not.(Best case scenario is that lying about her affair is her coping mechanism and facing what she was duing it, I won't have to describe the worst case scenario)


----------



## iheartlife

Jibril said:


> Judging by what has been revealed over the course of this topic, it seems to me like the wife wanted to maintain the affair - she _liked_ the other man. She admits she likes him and wants to continue seeing him in the recorded conversation. Her reason for continuing to see him are highly suspect too (I think they're an outright crock of ****, honestly).


Yes, this was the other part of her confession that struck me. While perhaps Martinique left that out, there is a notable absence of her liking the OM. Again, it's the plausibility. I buy into beer goggles--once. Twice? Plus the VAR conversation? The lady doth protest too much.

I want to believe that she will come clean before it's too late. I just don't think she's there yet.


----------



## snap

Between what she told you and what she said when she didn't think you were listening, I'd believe the latter.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Sniff sniff

Do you smell that?

That's trickle truth!


----------



## Martinique78

All of what you are saying I feel is true as well and I called her out on it yesterday and she broke down crying saying that she knows here reasons for not stopping it so we could all eventually become friends was completely illogical and she knows that now. She kept sayig that she was so messed up during the month that things were going on and that I really shouldn't quote her on things she said that night of the affair because after a certain point she was so wasted that she doesn't really remember a whole lot but she was trying to to aid in my questioning.

She said it was a side of her that she has never seen before and never wants to see again. I asked her if she was so sure about that would you be willing to sign a contract stating that if anything like this ever happens again that you release full custody of our kids to me and we get a divorce. I knew that was the only real thing she cared about loosing. She told me yes, that's how much she plans to change.

She told me she never wanted to hurt me like this and she's willing to do anything to make it up to me and regain my trust.


----------



## keko

Martinique78 said:


> She kept sayig that she was so messed up during that month that things were going on and that I really shouldn't quote her on things she said that night cause after a certain point she doesn't really remember a whole lot but she was trying to to aid in my questioning.


Tanslation? Just sweep it under the rug and forget about it.


For that month? Given her past and behavior I wouldn't rule out other affair's that you weren't able to catch. Only the month you caught her.


----------



## Martinique78

keko said:


> Tanslation? Just sweep it under the rug and forget about it.
> 
> 
> For that month? Given her past and behavior I wouldn't rule out other affair's that you weren't able to catch. Only the month you caught her.


She really hasn't been like this with me in the past. I knew her past was pretty wild and she was very loyal to me. After the kids things changed. She was unhappy all the time, no confidence in herself and I was working all the time. She got on this medication and even I noticed she wasn't the same person but I was happy the she was happy again. I think the medication only covered up the real problem and they were always there. Now her medication has been upped and she is also now on Abilify. I found out recently from her mom that depression runs in the family and it's been so serious that there have been a few talks about suicide. She told me that when she was talking to my wife on the phone after everything came out that she sounded just like her aunt who had talked about suicide, with the things she was saying about not being able to go on knowing what she did.

I'm just so confused and I keep going back to she was just being a *****...but then I'm like what if things were really that screwed up for her. I don't know the truth from a hole in the wall right now and i'm just so drained from living in limbo. I know everything is still fresh but i'm just so impatient and I just need something to happen...and soon.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Martinique78 said:


> She said it was a side of her that she has never seen before and never wants to see again. _*I asked her if she was so sure about that would you be willing to sign a contract stating that if anything like this ever happens again that you release full custody of our kids to me and we get a divorce.*_ I knew that was the only real thing she cared about loosing. She told me yes, that's how much she plans to change.


She probably knows that even a mediocre lawyer could blow holes in that contract and make it null and void.


----------



## aug

Martinique78 said:


> I knew her past was pretty wild and she was very loyal to me.


So she went back to her old ways?


----------



## lovelygirl

Martinique78 said:


> She told me she never wanted to hurt me like this and she's willing to do anything to make it up to me and regain my trust.


See??? I just don't get it what's so effing wrong with these cheating people.

They tell you they didn't wanna hurt you yet they couldn't stop the hurt they were causing you.

Senseless!!! 

It's not that she didn't wanna hurt you. SHE DID IT BECAUSE SHE FELT LIKE DOING IT, wanted to satisfy herself and that's it!


----------



## warlock07

What about making you feel crazy and take medication for the suspicions? That part was entirely intentional and she wasn't drunk. I think this was even worse than the infidelity. You now know what she is capable of of when you corner her. How do you plan to get over something like that?


----------



## iheartlife

Has she ever admitted to you that she just liked his attention, plain and simple? That she found him attractive and it made her feel special? Why does she have to warp this into some convoluted explanation about meds, and alcohol, and being messed up, and depression running in the family?

Did she sound depressed and suicidal to you on the VAR?

It is so dang frustrating how the cheater's mind works. All you want is the truth.

I just wonder how many times she needs to hear, "it's not the sex, IT'S THE LIES" before she will internalize it and live it.


----------



## bandit.45

warlock07 said:


> What about making you feel crazy and take medication for the suspicions? That part was entirely intentional and she wasn't drunk. I think this was even worse than the infidelity. You now know what she is capable of of when you corner her. How do you plan to get over something like that?


:iagree: This was the worst part of the betrayal. This is who your wife *really* is.


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## iheartlife

yea. that is pretty f'd up.


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