# Time to decide



## lost_girl (Dec 26, 2013)

I wish there was magic dust to make everything make sense...or a crystal ball to show if anything will change, but I know that is not possible. So here I am, trying to talk my way through all the crazy mess of my life.

For a long time now, more than 4 years, closer to 5 I have had this thought in my head that if things didn't change that I was going to have to make the hardest decision of my life. To say or to go- and here I sit all this time later and nothing has changed, no matter how many times I have tried to make it be different.

I know everyone says to talk and try MC before doing anything, and for some that might be easy to do, but what do you do when you can even talk to your spouse about the problems that you have because they don't see anything wrong?

Everything has built up over the years and I have let it. I have never stood up for myself and never spoke out about what I wanted, I let him walk over me so to speak. From the time we got married 16 years ago I have been so scared that he would leave me that I never spoke up when I wasn't happy and I just tucked my tale and did exactly what he wanted done. If he didn't want me to do something then I didn't do it, if he wanted something done and I didn't want to well then I did it anyway because I didn't want to upset him.

I stopped seeing friends and having a social life, because he didn't like my friends and didn't want to be around them, and if I tried then I was questioned about why I was gone so long and what we were doing and the whole time I was gone it was a constant phone attack of when I was coming back...and that still happens now..

I have started to stand up for myself in a lot of way, like tonight I decided last night that I would go out with friends when I got off for new years, he gave me the pouty attitude about him not being able to go out and basically trying to make me feel bad about it, yet he forgets about the new years eve that I worked, he partied and go drunk and passed out in a hotel room and I had to go drag his drunk butt home when I got off at 7am after working a 12 hour shift. so..im going and will let the chips fall where they may.

I want to talk to him about the problems that we are having but I cant talk to him, he doesn't see that anything is wrong, when I try and tell him he tell me that I am crazy or just being over emotional. How do you talk to someone like that? How do you tell them that things need to change because you are not happy?

I feel like I am checking out so to speak, when I am at home I clean to stay away from him, and even if I am not I still find a reason to be in another room. 

Our bedroom life has been rocky for a while, because all he cared/cares about it getting what he wants and then its over..foreplay whats that? But for the past few months I stopped even trying, I sleep as far on my side of the bed as I can, and sleep in clothes...pajama pants and a tshirt....I don't want him to touch me.

I will tell him I love him, if he says it first, which isn't often and its not a lie because even being unhappy I do still feel that I love him still, I am just not happy at all.

We have very little conversation and when we do he starts it and its about his work or football.

What I don't understand is how he can not see that things are not right. How can he be ok with me being so withdrawn and unhappy. How can he care so little as to want to know what is going on with me?

I really do feel like this is the end, that things are not going to get better only continue to get worse and I will only continue to be more and more unhappy.

I guess at this point all that is left is to make an appointment with him for us to talk and see what happens. 

....im open for suggestions...and im open to questions if you need something else in order to make a suggestion


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## goingmad (Dec 29, 2013)

I could have written this post. I wish I could offer some advice I really do. We have just seen in 2014 in the uk and for the first time in 23 years I didnt cry at the turn of midnight. H has gone to bed alone and im sat here thinking what the next 12 months will bring.

Big hugs to you


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I wrote on your other post a few days ago and some of the answered I tried to give you then ring true for this post. When you wrote about going out with friends for new years eve, he gave you the pouty routine because history has told him that if he does that he gets his way. 

He probably doesn’t see the problems because its not a problem for him. He gets what he wants, he sees things as right because it hasn’t been any other way for him now has it. Change doesn’t happen overnight, you need to stand your ground and be strong and consistant with it. He wont like it and will complain because again years have taught him this will work to get what he wants. 

So to put it simplistically stand up for what you want and hold him accountable. Till he starts to see you in a different light he will resist change, he may never change but if you continue to give in it wont. 

Guys always talk about football and work, sorry, when he does talk try and steer the conversation to the kids or things like that. Engage the conversation, subtly steer it away from the usual guy topic, keep him interested and before you know it you may actually have a real conversation.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

lost_girl:

I'm sorry you're going through this. I could have written your EXACT post (only mine wanted to talk politics and conspiracy theories ad nauseum) for years. I left my H of 20 years in May 2012 and I have not been SO HAPPY in decades!

I understand what it's like to live with an incredibly selfish person who lacks empathy for others (mine REALLY COULDN'T understand that other people could legitimately think/believe differently than him!). If they're happy, then EVERYBODY should be happy. The endless 'giving' to keep the peace is draining and depressing.

It's a new year! You CAN make a change (choose one):

MC and a concerted effort on BOTH of your parts to change (his selfishness, your resentful acquiescence)
end the marriage and make a new start (which will only work if YOU work on yourself to quit being a complacent martyr afraid of conflict).
Best wishes for a happy life for you in 2014. It can happen, but only when YOU CHOOSE to MAKE IT HAPPEN!


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## blackdog (Dec 18, 2013)

I am afraid that I do not have much for advice, lost_girl. I am writing though to tell you that I am one of those husbands as well. 17 years of marriage and she rarely stood up for herself. I can't even give you a reason why I would make that pouty lip as she would get herself ready to go out with friends. I suppose that I am a bit of a "homebody" and I know that it is not healthy.

For months now she has not wanted sex and, like you say, she sleeps at the very far end of the bed. It really, really worried me that perhaps there was another man. But after many, many talks I believe that we have both been faithful to each other.

She blames herself for bottling things up for SO long and I blame myself for the (and I hate to admit it) verbal abuse I have given her over the years. Fortunately for us, we go to see a MC in a week and I am counting the days on the calendar because (like you say) life can not keep going on with this kind of unhappiness.

The best of luck to the both of you and I hope you find a way to bring happiness into both of your lives. I apologize if it seemed like I was stepping on your thread. That was not my intension. I just wanted you to realize that there are others out there that are sharing the same type of situation. In fact, when I first started reading your post, I was beginning to wonder if my wife was "lost_girl".


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Lost-girl, 
I am so sorry you are hear and I can relate to your pain from the other perspective. My story is here, to and in some ways I am similar to your husband. I would suggest if I can that you make a marriage consoling session appt for you and your husband. Ask that he attend for you and him. Be clear about the date and time. 

I so wish my wife would have done that rather than just waking up one day and being done...

Stay strong, best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You have some hope. Lay it out in MC. 

The next time he starts talking about some football tell him you think XX linebacker is super sexy.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

You've gotten good advice. I just want to offer a phrase that has been helpful for me going forward (in my case, with finalizing/turning in paperwork):

We can't plan our lives based on what if. We can only plan on what IS.

I love my STBX dearly. He is a good man. But he is not a good husband. The last few months I've stayed because "what if he changes?"...but that's a what if. What IS true is he is not a good husband for me. And I have to act based on that knowledge.

I can tell you that as it has started to dawn that I am dead serious about divorce he is starting to realize how upset and unhappy I have been in our marriage, but it took me saying "get out of the house, I'm filing" for him to realize. And there really is no coming back once you say that. 

Give MC a try, though. Tell your husband you've scheduled an appointment for both of you on XX date, and you're going regardless. Sometimes just knowing that you're unhappy enough you think you need to talk to someone else is enough to make them come along.

Best of luck to you!


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## lost_girl (Dec 26, 2013)

Thank you all for your advice and help.
Sometimes I just feel like I'm floundering and gasping for air from the sheer fact that I am so confused. Things will be ok for a day or two and then its right back to normal. I get nervous just being in the same room with him because I don't know even know what to say to him anymore. I want to talk to him badly but the fear that is built up inside me is paralyzing, not that I don't want to but that I don't know how he will react. 

He did something today that totally put me out of me element, when he got up the first thing he did was start drinking, he hasn't drank like that in a long time, that was about 4pm when I left for work at 630 he was still drinking, I guess I will see when I get home what is left if any of the bottle.

I am letting my fear of what he might do over power me, he has never hit me anything like that, the one major fight we had was when he had been drinking big time, and wanted the keys to go home, I hid them from him and he pushed me into an entertainment center trying to get them. But I know that in his past he has been a fighter with other men so that scares me. 

My daughter is starting to notice things more and more, she asked me yesterday when we went out why he was acting so weird and just being there doing nothing but watching tv...how do you respond to things like that...

But I did get me a notebook, and I am going to put in what I can remember till now and go from there, also I have found and outlet to get legal advice and they have told me they will be there to assist me when I am ready no matter when that might be. They have told me how to keep him from running away with my kids ( my biggest fear ever) as well as the proper steps to take as soon as I make my decision.

I know I probably repeat myself so many times here that its not funny...and I am sure I will do it again and again....so thank you to all of you who have read and responded, having people that I can talk to and that are willing to give feed back in anyway has helped me so much in getting my head together, no I may not be fully there yet but because of all of you I am a few more steps closer....thank you...


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## lost_girl (Dec 26, 2013)

....I need some advice, 

H has been off work for the past 3 nights, and has stayed up all night all 3 nights, I have worked 12 hour shifts all 3 nights so I have not been home. I am struggling with being able to talk to him...is there ever a good time? I am trying to keep things away from the kids, they are 15 and 10 and I really don't want them to see us verbally fight if it comes down to that but I just cant get the time to talk to him when they are not there. Any suggestions?

I have gotten to the point that I stay so angry...like I said he was off while I was working, Fri I stayed up for a while before I napped and cooked dinner for the night and I could nap until almost time for work....when I came home sat morning the kitchen was a wreck! I left it because I was so exhausted from work. When I got up sat night he didn't even off to fix dinner so I went and picked something up and got back home about 30 mins before I had to be at work. Worked another 12 hour shift and came home to even more mess and he was still awake...stayed up till 9 cleaning and when I finally get ready to go to bed he wakes up and comes in there and wants to know why I am up...so I said that nothing had been cleaned and I had to do it cause I couldn't stand the mess, he simply stated oh and went back to bed.....

Not to mention that he had allowed my 10 yo to stay up ALL NIGHT LONG both nights, he was still awake when I got home from work both mornings....

Now I say all this so that I can ask....he is an adult...former military...so I know he knows how to clean... should I have to keep repeating myself over and over that I need help? should I have to ask him to help me keep our house clean? should I have to remind him to make our 10 yo lay down and go to sleep at night? I don't get it!! I don't understand why I need to sit him down and explain this stuff to him...can someone please help me out here....if I do...is it likely to change anything or just make him mad? 

Why is this so hard for me? I am so frustrated and angry but yet I just cant find it in me to let it out...my sister tells me that I am too nice and too worried about hurting him over making me happy...and she may be mostly right...I don't want to hurt him, but I am falling apart right in front of his eyes and he cant or wont see it. And I for sure do not want to hurt my children. 

I love him but I am really starting to think that I just cant live with him anymore...not if he cant help out, not if he keeps spending every single day he is off doing nothing unless he wants to go some place, other than that he is on the computer, phone, video game or in the bed cause he stays up all night doing some of everything above. 

My sister thinks that I should go see a lawyer before I talk to him so that I know what my rights are with all of this... in my mind I cant help but think that maybe that's not fair to him but then again I don't want to get stuck in a bad situation if it blows up...

Any suggestions are welcome as always

** I know that some of this is repeat, please understand that this is my only outlet, the only place that I can at anytime put how I feel into words and feel a little better for a moment...knowing that my thoughts are safe here**


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## blackdog (Dec 18, 2013)

I don't know what to reply other than the obvious. That he has to get his act together. It definitely is nice to have somewhere like this to look for advice, rant or just use for some adult conversation.


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## lost_girl (Dec 26, 2013)

blackdog...I know he does, I just don't know how to get him to understand.. and I guess I haven't gotten as strong as I thought maybe I had because I still cant manage to put my big girl panties on and talk to him...


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## blackdog (Dec 18, 2013)

About 2 months ago (roughly, I am never good with timelines) my wife more or less said that her and I were going to soon going to live happy lives. Those lives might be as a married couple or a divorced couple. Time will tell. That really scared the hell outta me. But at the same time it recently has me liking the sight of this confident woman. So much so that it (and this forum) has given me strength to do the same. To be more confident in myself so that whatever life brings, I must live it with pride and happiness. My strong optimism helps these days. But even if a divorce is in the cards and it ends up a little messy, there is still hope for a great life yet.

Sorry if it seems like ramble, but I hope it is food for thought. Best of luck to you.


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## blackdog (Dec 18, 2013)

I really feel for you though because I sat my 11 year old daughter down today and explained to her how she can not spend such a large amount of her day staring at the "idiot box". How a bit of television each day is all that she needs and that her time can be spent more wisely. And I REALLY think that I got through. It is completely different to have a conversation like this with a spouse.


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## lost_girl (Dec 26, 2013)

I totally agree, it is simple for me to say to my children..ok time to shut that whatever off and help out, but an adult, someone who should know what needs to be done and just do it...and then when I do say something or get upset about its turned back on me....I get anything from its my day off, to ill get it later ( later never comes ) or if it is done its done with obvious discontent ...I tried just leaving it, that didn't work either, just left me with a bigger mess to clean up.


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## lost_girl (Dec 26, 2013)

....Do you ever get this crushing pain in your chest, this feeling that everything is falling in and you have no place to run, the feeling that you can breathe...your heart is pounding and you feel so empty inside...that's the best that I can describe the feelings that I get lately, at least once a day I get this feeling in my chest and after 15, 20, 30 mins it will go away. 
I've stated to notice that its mostly when I start to think about how I will talk to the H, and I'm not talking about separation, I'm talking about just talking to him to let him know that I'm not happy and that some things need to change....
I don't know how much more I can handle....


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

My suggestion is to stay married. You entered into a lifelong marriage contract. Honor it.


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## blackdog (Dec 18, 2013)

Have you talked to your family doctor about these feelings? The shortness of breath and the pounding in the chest sounds like there is a possibility that it might be stress related. Have you managed to do much communicating with your husband? You obviously do not have to answer that one.


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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

Just wanted to jump in and say I know how you feel. I was the same. I had to wait until I literally was feeling like i was dying everyday, feeling trapped in a cage, not being able to breath, and feeling like I was disappearing, to talk to my H. I had this realization that I couldn't live like this anymore so it was out of desperation. By then I had decided I was leaving him. There was no ultimatum there was no nothing. I was DONE. He is the one who then came back and asked if I'd go for MC. I didn't see the point. I agreed to try to work it out for one year (for the kids really). We are about 8 months in, and it has been really helpful. We can talk to each other, many things have changed. Not sure if we'll stay together but now I know that he is a better father, and has "woken up". I too have woken up to a lot of things i was doing to contribute to this dysfunction. 

The sooner you can broach the subject of MC the better. It's a long haul trying to come back from that place of wanting/needing to leave. 

If you have children I think it's probably the most important work of your life to learn to communicate with him. You might still end up apart but you will resolve a lot of things in MC which will make you both better parents and it will help you move into another relationship which is healthier than the one you left, if you can't work it out with him.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

wilderness said:


> My suggestion is to stay married. You entered into a lifelong marriage contract. Honor it.


To offer a counterpoint to this : My suggestion is to figure out what you need to do to talk to your spouse. Sometimes just jumping in is the best way to handle it, unless there is the possibility of violence. If there is the possibility or history of violence, then work with the women's shelter to get the hell outta dodge. 

-M


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## PinkSalmon13 (Nov 7, 2013)

lost_girl, you are not alone. I'm a male, married 25 years, need to have this talk.........but cannot find the courage to do it. I don't even know what's holding me back - other than simple fear and uncertainty. But those physical manifestations you've described - I have EXACTLY the same sensations, and they're horrible. I never knew such a sense of entrapment and hopelessness existed. And yet, I am struggling every minute of every day, even just to wonder if I'll have the strength....and if not, WHY not. It's really messed up. Sympathy for what you're going through.


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## lost_girl (Dec 26, 2013)

BlackDog, no I have not talked to my doctor about it but I have mentioned it to a close family member who knows what I am going through right now and she suggested the same thing that you did about it being stress and feels that I should see my doctor. So it is looking like that will be my next step....


Keenwa...I feel the same way, like I'm trapped and there is no way out...its the worst feeling ever...



PinkSalmon13....{lost_girl, you are not alone. I'm a male, married 25 years, need to have this talk.........but cannot find the courage to do it. I don't even know what's holding me back - other than simple fear and uncertainty. But those physical manifestations you've described - I have EXACTLY the same sensations, and they're horrible. I never knew such a sense of entrapment and hopelessness existed. And yet, I am struggling every minute of every day, even just to wonder if I'll have the strength....and if not, WHY not. It's really messed up. Sympathy for what you're going through. }


PinkSalmon, it is the worst feeling, knowing what you want and what you need and being so scared to even speak up. I have had so many people to tell me to "grow a set" or "put my big girl panties on" and speak up for myself...well when you haven't done that for over 16 years, so basically never, its not as simple as doing it, I'm scared to death. Just the thought of talking to him about what I want and need and what this marriage needs scares the h e double hockey stixs out of me. And then like you ...I ask myself why not...why cant I do this, why cant I stand up for myself cause in the end if he leaves Ill be happier any way but its that not knowing what he will do, how he will react to me finally standing up for myself that knocks me back down and send me running with my tail between my legs and my mouth shut.... in the mean time salmon, I will add you to my prayers when I lay my head at night in hopes that one of us will figure this out....


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## PinkSalmon13 (Nov 7, 2013)

The situation starts to unravel a whole bunch of stuff. My dad was an alcoholic who was never physically demonstrative (or abusive), was always rather distant, never did much with us, and I was always scared to talk to him. I was bullied in 7th-11th grades, treated like **** by my former jock friends because I was the only one who refused the drugs and alcohol they hot into.....and was too ashamed to talk to anyone about it and locked it all down....finally as a senior I was deemed 'cool' again once everyone had grown up and realized we were all heading out of the small pond. etc etc

Point being, I have always been afraid to talk to some, and totally bottled up the rest. So here I get to an absolute crisis point, and feel totally helpless. When I think about starting the conversation (have been through it in my head a thousand times) I feel beyond ill. Feels like my chest is going to cave in. But when I feel like I don't know if I can even ever open my mouth, this massive blackness descends. Hard to describe. Like being crushed by something invisible but very 'heavy'. 

And so I spend my days going back and forth between these two devastating sensations. All day, every day. WHERE ARE MY CAJONES?? The problem is that suicide occasionally bubbles up as a response to all of this -- shocking. Ican't even imagine doing that, but still -- my psyche is putting it out there.

So yes, your post and your situation really struck a chord and I needed to let you know you have myself and several others here who totally understand and won't tell you to get your big girl pants on because we know how tremendously difficult all of this is, and that it's very very hard to figure out the dynamics of our self-abuse (not being able to talk and thus staying where we don't want to be....it really is self-abusive, self-devaluing, etc). 

I, too, have taken to praying.....begging God, actually, to help me out. I will also include you in mine. 

It's so sad. I think back on the excited, stoked, bright-eyed, happy, vibrant, sharp, adventurous guy I used to be. Never never never did IO think it possible to end up 'here'. And to know I seem to be reinforcing my own cage because I am so afraid just makes it all the worse.

You're in my thoughts.......bounce stuff off me anytime. SOMEthing has to give eventually!! I am so envious of those here on TAM who can speak about the moment of conversation as a past-tense situation!!


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## lost_girl (Dec 26, 2013)

Pinksalmon, 
I read your post and all I can think is wow...so much like me
I have always been the type of person who never spoke up for myself. I have been the peace keeper with everyone...friends..family...work...you name it, I always just wanted to make everyone happy and hated and still do hate confrontation. I would never tell anyone no and would kill myself to try and make everyone happy. Well my doctor told be back in march of last year that I had to stop or I was going to kill myself, I have done well with stopping in every way with the exception of my H. I still tuck my tail with him. 

And just like you I have played this "movie script" over and over in my head, what I would say, how I would say it everything but I just cant do it, I cant get the words to come out, or there isn't that good time, the kids are there, I have to work, he has to work... but I cant stand this feeling, just like you talked about that heavy black dark feeling that the world is falling in on you and that there is no way out. the thoughts that you said you have had but never really thought, they have surfaced with me before and it is a VERY scary thing when you really don't know where they came from because you know that you would never do that kind of thing.

I wonder too what happened to the real me, the person who had a ton of friends and always had people over and was always going off with her girlfriends and having sleep overs with the kids and happy doing things, and then I wonder what happened to him...he used to go out and have fun and have and go to parties and things, now he had straight up told me that he hates my friends and that he could care less about having friends or being around people that he does not need friends that he is happy to come home and work and do nothing else at all. I however am not happy with that, I want my social life back! 

But the thing is, is that even at home he has no life, he sleeps and plays video games. It feels like to me he is just there because its there. If he cared about it being home wouldn't he take an interest in taking care of home and doing the things that need to be done. ahhh!!!!!!! Im just so mixed up!! 

sorry this is such a mess...it kinda fits my feelings right now


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## blackdog (Dec 18, 2013)

lost_girl, I find that this forum helps me. But honestly, the best help that I have right now is from my counsellor (or shrink, or mental health guy, or whatever title they give him). Even with him though I filter things to allow the most help possible. Only so much can be discussed in an hour and it seems like a long wait between sessions, but well worth the wait.

I guess what I am saying is that the professional help is something some people need. I have a couple of close friends to talk to as well, but the professional help is the best. It focuses totally on my problems. Once I become stronger I hope to listen closer to their problems. It is crucial to get the help that you need. It is out there. Use it. Take care and good luck.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Hi LG,

I'm sorry to hear you are in such pain right now. Know that it will get better. You just have to decide to make it so. I believe that you can do this.

You are a very unassertive person right now, and it is not serving you, your M, or even your H very well.

May I suggest you seek out some training on becoming more assertive? I highly recommend this class.

If you click into the link, you can view the first lesson and syllabus for free. I took this course and found it to be very helpful. And fun, because there is interaction with others who are also trying to become more assertive.

Please don't allow this personal problem to destroy your M. If you leave your H without tending to this non-assertive issue you have, you will only take it to your next relationship. Your H can not fix you, neither can another man. Fix yourself, and then if you still want out, so be it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lost girl,

You are at the breaking point right now. It is very important to try to clarify what you want in your relationship with your husband. I do believe that married people should exhaust all possible remedies before throwing in the towel. All possible remedies means that you, yes unfortunately you must leave your comfort zone and talk to him.

Also, it occurs to me that he has noticed your emotional withdrawal but is at a loss to explain it. Men can be kind of dense...no offense to the wonderful men of TAM who are never dense  his drinking and his leaving the house a mess, since they are out of character, are his personal "tells" that he feels the relationship trouble. That is a very good sign. My husband was totally dumbfounded!

Spend a few days writing, much as you have already done. The purpose is to bring up specific examples of how you wish to be treated by him. 
"When I work, it's important to me to know that you are taking care of the kids and the home. Being gone for 12 hours means I must be able to trust that you're holding down the fort as well as I hold it down when you go to work."
"I have trouble letting you know how I feel, especially when I don't like something you've said or done. I need your help to express myself better. Unfortunately, I don't know what to suggest because I don't know what will work. But maybe we can come up with ways together."

Give him just a few examples like I noted above, just to test the waters so to speak. Once you two are communicating better about a few things, you can learn to communicate better about a lot of other things.

Understand this: sex is very very important in a marriage. Men need sex in order to feel loved by their wives, it's not just about getting laid. As such, if you have been unsatisfied by his lovemaking skills, this is absolutely something to work on, and can be worked on, but it is on you to tell him what you need from him. I suspect this will be very hard for you so leave this area till last.

Lastly, you went out NYE without your husband. I have to say, unless he was working, that was not cool. Unless he hates NYE and hates going out and was perfectly fine with you going out without him, that move cut him deeply and you are going to have to own that. I'm sure it was your way of making a statement and I don't blame you wanting to make a statement, but that was below the belt. So you need to apologize for that.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

LG, your husband is depressed. Much like you he is lost, without direction. You came here and are getting a lot of great advice but he's not there yet. 

Whatever causes a man to withdraw from his wife, kids, family and friends probably runs pretty deep. Most likely it is not just you. You mentioned he's ex military. Have either of you considered PTSD as a factor? In any case his behavior is screaming for help.

Your courage to face what scares you could be an incredible catalyst to heal your family. Or it could be a way to be free of what won't/can't be fixed by you. I wish you well and will pray for you.

~ Passio


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