# Male sex drive in monogamy.



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

There was a fascinating thread on female sexuality in the ladies lounge. The subject of women losing sex drive for their husbands came up and was discussed.

There is probably a plethora of research articles and experiences with men and sex drive in monogamy so lets hear it.

I have been in a monogamous relationship for 23 years and my drive for my wife has gone through fluctuations but never gone away.

My drive for her now is quite strong and I could wear her out if given the chance. We have a healthy sexual relationship but I have started feeling the occasional "response" inside when around other women.

No worries. No cheating has or will occur but I never use to get an internal, sexual, response around other women.

I am 43. Is this common? I am wondering if it is possible that it has something to do with reproduction?

I think it might. The women this seems to happen with are mostly still of reproduction age.

Mrs. Conan is no longer able to have children. Just some detail.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I know your question wasn't about this but, in the studies talked about, I don't think anyone ever said or showed that the body's urges to have sexual attraction for other people goes away in men in monogamy. It is generally understood that no "body", male or female, will ever be monogamous in itself (because our bodies will still be aroused by other people, regardless of the mind's decision to be monogamous). But what research shows over and over is that men will typically not lose their desire to have sex with their monogamous partner, but women do. 

In both men and women, the physical sexual attraction to others outside their relationship never goes away. It is just that with some women, they tend to lose their sexual attraction for their monogamous partner over time, but most men don't.

So your sexual attraction to other women would be abnormal if it did NOT exist.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm just like OP. Almost 20 years and attraction is at all time high/sexual activity is high on our end.

From time to time my mind and private parts will bring "things" up.......I've learned over the years to ignore my ****/brain when it does come up.

Over the years, it seems to not come up as much as I practice/exercise mental control.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I have always found other women attractive. I have never had an uncontrolled internal "shift" around any women before I hit my late 30's.

My mind has always kept my body in line. I have started experiencing the beginnings of arousal without my mind giving consent. This never happened before maybe 38 or 39 and has been lightly increasing in frequency.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Conan, that's totally normal and has nothing to do with monogamy, IMO. I'm madly in love with my husband and would never even want to have sex with someone else. But my body still gets chick wood whenever it wants, for who ever it wants. It doesn't mean anything about my mind or my decision to be monogamous. It just means I'm normal and healthy and my body responds sexually to other bodies.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I have always found other women attractive. I have never had an uncontrolled internal "shift" around any women before I hit my late 30's.
> 
> My mind has always kept my body in line. I have started experiencing the beginnings of arousal without my mind giving consent. This never happened before maybe 38 or 39 and has been lightly increasing in frequency.


Actually, upon reflection, I have had a couple of full blow sexual responses around other women in the last 4 years.

They were confusing and led me to really examine myself.

One woman was someone I had barely met at a church function.

Even when looking at her from across a room, the electricity was so strong that I had to leave early and arrange my schedule to not be around her again.

She was no where near as attractive as my wife and the attraction was mutual.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

This never happened before my late 30's so I was wondering if that had anything to do with it.

Maybe I am just losing my "grip" a little in my middle age. LOL!


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> In both men and women, the physical sexual attraction to others outside their relationship never goes away. I


:iagree:

"Married, not dead" comes to mind.

I think loss of attraction in women a lot of times is because they don't respect their partners anymore and/or don't feel like their emotional needs are being met.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I know your question wasn't about this but, in the studies talked about, I don't think anyone ever said or showed that the body's urges to have sexual attraction for other people goes away in men in monogamy. It is generally understood that no "body", male or female, will ever be monogamous in itself (because our bodies will still be aroused by other people, regardless of the mind's decision to be monogamous). But what research shows over and over is that men will typically not lose their desire to have sex with their monogamous partner, but women do.
> 
> In both men and women, the physical sexual attraction to others outside their relationship never goes away. It is just that with some women, they tend to lose their sexual attraction for their monogamous partner over time, but most men don't.
> 
> So your sexual attraction to other women would be abnormal if it did NOT exist.


I might be abnormal. I have huge sexual attraction to my woman, but when I'm in a relationship, I don't really have that for many if any other women outside the relationship. I just see women.

I wasn't like that before. I fantasized about testing so many different womens "nectar".

What changed me, is I cheated on an ex. The woman I got with after this cheated me horribly, after that I just lost the taste for looking around when I'm in a relationship.

Sometimes I wonder if my sex drive would be higher if I had some of my old viewpoint without the impulsivity to cheat.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Conan, that's totally normal and has nothing to do with monogamy, IMO. I'm madly in love with my husband and would never even want to have sex with someone else. But my body still gets chick wood whenever it wants, for who ever it wants. It doesn't mean anything about my mind or my decision to be monogamous. It just means I'm normal and healthy and my body responds sexually to other bodies.


So you and your H have been in a monogamous relationship.

How have you avoided what many other women have not?

You seem to be a very sexual woman with desire for your husband.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

treyvion said:


> I might be abnormal. I have huge sexual attraction to my woman, but when I'm in a relationship, I don't really have that for many if any other women outside the relationship. I just see women.
> 
> I wasn't like that before. I fantasized about testing so many different womens "nectar".
> 
> ...


I think it also shows how our drives are affected by our minds and can be trained like a muscle to respond a certain way.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I think it also shows how our drives are affected by our minds and can be trained like a muscle to respond a certain way.


Oh YES, it can be trained and so can you! The mind is all powerful and also can be a great limiter.

With my new style monogamous sex gets hotter and hotter and hotter. It does kill the intensity for "the new" in the sleeping around and dating game though.

For it to work the lady has to be onboard with the program.

I know for a fact that most mens ED is mental. Some of reversing it might be doing stupid high testosterone acts of youth and being a bit less responsible and more impulsive.

Personally I also think that keeping a high sex drive and a high sex life like 5 or more times a week is an exceelent way to stave off depression, and maintains optimum hormone levels.

Plus if your sex is active it's good excersize.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I have always found other women attractive. I have never had an uncontrolled internal "shift" around any women before I hit my late 30's.
> 
> My mind has always kept my body in line. I have started experiencing the beginnings of arousal without my mind giving consent. This never happened before maybe 38 or 39 and has been lightly increasing in frequency.


I think that's completely normal.

I can't say I've experienced arousal, but there has been times when I just walked by a woman and sparks just started flying around me....for whatever reason...I can't even put my finger on what triggered it or ANYTHING.

It's really weird. BUT as long as I noticed/identified myself and dealt with it.....that's all that matters.

Most men let those feeling that creep up take them over completely.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Actually, upon reflection, I have had a couple of full blow sexual responses around other women in the last 4 years.
> 
> They were confusing and led me to really examine myself.
> 
> ...


I've been there....... happens few times a year.

The nice thing is, women don't initiate or flirt etc. Just walk by, maybe a look.

This is where I struggle when it comes to "being in womens shoes". 

It's SO hard for me to relate and realize how much harder all of this is for women. Think about it, they not only experience what we do but guys usually approach them and they have to deal with it.

It's hard for me, but I do a good job. Its just hard for me to even remotely relate to women.

My wife gets hit on few times a week. MY LIFETIME of "being hit on" is probably HER WEEK.

Crazy....but I guess women experience it more and are equipped to deal with it better? No clue, but it must be hard for sure.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I know your question wasn't about this but, in the studies talked about, I don't think anyone ever said or showed that the body's urges to have sexual attraction for other people goes away in men in monogamy. It is generally understood that no "body", male or female, will ever be monogamous in itself (because our bodies will still be aroused by other people, regardless of the mind's decision to be monogamous). But what research shows over and over is that men will typically not lose their desire to have sex with their monogamous partner, but women do.
> 
> In both men and women, the physical sexual attraction to others outside their relationship never goes away. It is just that with some women, they tend to lose their sexual attraction for their monogamous partner over time, but most men don't.
> 
> So your sexual attraction to other women would be abnormal if it did NOT exist.


This is interesting....and scary.

Should I go over above with my wife so she can recognize herself when and if it happens?

Or let it be and hope for the best?

Also do you have any links to this study?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DoF said:


> This is interesting....and scary.
> 
> Should I go over above with my wife so she can recognize herself when and if it happens?
> 
> Or let it be and hope for the best?


I have to get ready to fly to Seattle but I have some possibly good insight into this situation and some things a husband can do if and when this happens to his wife.

I was hoping for a response from Faithful. She is better read on the subject and a woman in a monogamous relationship.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

DoF said:


> I've been there....... happens few times a year.
> 
> The nice thing is, women don't initiate or flirt etc. Just walk by, maybe a look.
> 
> ...


It is not harder for women to avoid cheating just because men hit on us. Women (and men) need to be vulnerable to cheating in some way for them to act on a fleeting attraction. 

If we aren't vulnerable to cheating to begin with, no amount of hitting on us is going to "make" us cheat just because it's available. For those of who are not vulnerable, a guy hitting on us is either "ew" (not interested at all) or flattering (nice to know we still got 'it' but nothing more).


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

norajane said:


> It is not harder for women to avoid cheating just because men hit on us.


And let's face it, women get hit on a LOT so that would be a nearly daily occurrence. Lol.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> And let's face it, women get hit on a LOT so that would be a nearly daily occurrence. Lol.


Happens to men too.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I am not saying it doesn't. It was in response to Dof's point about women being hit on a lot.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> I am not saying it doesn't. It was in response to Dof's point about women being hit on a lot.


LOL! 

I get it. Women in general get hit on more. I think it is because men are usually more aggressive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

"Girl, if you were a fruit you'd be a FINEapple!"


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> LOL!
> 
> I get it. Women in general get hit on more. I think it is because men are usually more aggressive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's correct......our society has forced that down our throat right?

We fish, women wait.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I have been fished quite a bit. I have gone after two women. One married someone else and regrets it, the other is the mother of my children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I have been fished quite a bit. I have gone after two women. One married someone else and regrets it, the other is the mother of my children.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Understandable. 

I know that a lot of "lack of fished" has a lot to do with the environment I put myself into (or lack of one).

I'm a stay at home type and don't get out much to bars/clubs etc. Most of my life past 15+ years evolves around family.

Home or work. Other than that, store, sports, parks and great out doors (which is far from civilization as we can get).

I know I'm not a bad looking guy, but I'm no 9 or 10 either.


----------



## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

H and I are working on our third decade together. Sex drive goes up and down, and many times not in tune with each other. Many women go into hyper drive in the mid 30's and then fall off. It has a lot to do with hormones and those pesky girly parts. I went through that and now that I've had some of those parts removed (sorry for that info guys!) my drive is what it was in my 20's.

My view on men is that they slow down a bit in their 30's and then start some sort of mid-life change/crisis in their 40's. Their "stiffies" may not be as strong, their wives are feeling drained and sexless by hormones and kids/mortgages/jobs bring everyone down. That's what makes them ripe for affairs. It's totally normal and fine to be attracted to other women. Just don't date them. Don't be that middle age guy in a convertible with 20 year old girl...unless she's your daughter.

I'm finding that as we get past that stage, sex together is great. Curious to how it all works out in the 50's, 60's and 70's as we face ED and menopause...


----------



## karma*girl (Apr 28, 2012)

Treyvion, 
If you don't mind my asking..
What do you mean by your 'new style monogamous sex?' 
(You said your woman has to be on board.)
You got me curious!


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

karma*girl said:


> Treyvion,
> If you don't mind my asking..
> What do you mean by your 'new style monogamous sex?'
> (You said your woman has to be on board.)
> You got me curious!


I'm just more loyal, dependable, less sneaky, my eyes are on her only I try to understand her mind and body.

My thing is about getting way into each other and staying that way. It's more fun than trying out the next new thing to me, and we continually improve our sex and intimacy striving to please each other more each time.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Conan, I'm currently working on blog posts to discuss my thoughts on your question to me. Will let you know when I've completed them. But part of the answer is very simple: I'm a highly sexual female and I married a sex god.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Chick wood....

Love that term!


----------



## karma*girl (Apr 28, 2012)

Treyvion, 

I can see how having such an intimate understanding of your wife and willingness to be all hers, would build the foundation for an amazing sex life/marriage. 
Wives around the world would greatly benefit from such an awesome dynamic!


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Here is the funny thing. women are attracted to strong men. Emotionally strong men, and physically strong men. 

In monogamous relationships the men tend to lose their identity and become co-dependent. Not attractive features for women. Since i am still young, I have only things that I learned from observation. My father's side of the family, the divorce rate is low. Like 20%. I mean, my father never coddled me, and whenever I got in trouble, he made me solve it on my own. 

My last relationship , I was at a water park and a few girls checked me out, and my girlfriend slapped me. Well ex-girlfriend. I 180 her without knowing it. I didn't realize what i did until I got here. I have a fierce independent streak. I play basketball, I paint, read, catch up on the latest scientific discoveries, learned to cook, and I love learning new things. My parents taught me to diversify. As a adult, it helped me in life. My father gave me stability and gave me stoicism,and my mother taught me to do whatever interested me. I am one of a few people I know that don't drink , not even socially. 

Little did I realize it, but my older cousins are all in stable relationships. They balance fun, responsibility, and couple time. They drop off their kids at each others places so they can go out, or go on a couple vacation.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

karma*girl said:


> Treyvion,
> 
> I can see how having such an intimate understanding of your wife and willingness to be all hers, would build the foundation for an amazing sex life/marriage.
> Wives around the world would greatly benefit from such an awesome dynamic!


Unfortunately they also respond to social validation, so as a man you would have to maintain your attractiveness to a good level, and have external women desiring you. It can't hurt especially if you know you are all hers, and they like to know they have one many others wish they could have, and he's not cheap enough to go lay with them.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

DoF said:


> This is interesting....and scary.
> 
> Should I go over above with my wife so she can recognize herself when and if it happens?
> 
> ...


I don't have any specific advice because I don't know your situation. The issues are very complex as to why this happens. But one thing I know for sure is that you need to keep dating each other, and you both need to keep acting like "suitors" of each other.

Here's a bunch of articles about this phenomenon:

Q&A: Author Dan Bergner on What Women Want (Hint: Not Monogamy) | TIME.com

Are women less suited to monogamy than men?

NYTimes on Lybrido: Women get bored with monogamy faster than men.

Women Aren?t Wired for Monogamy, and More Myths -- Science of Us


----------



## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Here's a bunch of articles about this phenomenon



I might read these articles later.... but my knee jerk reaction is 

1) "studies" find the data they are looking for, 
2) an intelligent man knows how to make his marriage interesting...
3) a majority of men never do what treyvion suggested. they never get to really "know" their woman.


I think if a man approaches his relationship in the manner described by treyvion, and she is a good woman, then I think they will have a good, passionate marriage, and though there might be other tasty bits on the menu, neither one will want to stray from the good stuff they have with each other.


----------



## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

treyvion said:


> I'm just more loyal, dependable, less sneaky, my eyes are on her only I try to understand her mind and body.
> 
> My thing is about getting way into each other and staying that way. It's more fun than trying out the next new thing to me, and we continually improve our sex and intimacy striving to please each other more each time.


As if I haven't already quoted you enough...


This is a very good post, and I think it should be something that more men strive to do.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> There was a fascinating thread on female sexuality in the ladies lounge. The subject of women losing sex drive for their husbands came up and was discussed.
> 
> There is probably a plethora of research articles and experiences with men and sex drive in monogamy so lets hear it.
> 
> ...


Read this article. It's from a reputable source even though many won't like what it says. The premise is that your mid life crisis isn't about you're age so much as it is about your wife's age. It's evolutionary and reproduction driven. I say screw evolution though. Loyalty and companionship trumps urges.


Why Do Men Go Through a Midlife Crisis? | Psychology Today

EDIT: This article didn't mention women's mid life crisis so obviously there's more to be said.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

sparkyjim said:


> 1) "studies" find the data they are looking for,
> 2) an intelligent man knows how to make his marriage interesting...
> 3) a majority of men never do what treyvion suggested. they never get to really "know" their woman.


I agree to a large extent. But that doesn't mean the studies are only finding what they are looking for. They actually said "this is happening, let's try to find out why" and that is how these studies were born. Of course, that method (of looking for what you already "know" to be true) can cause poor and confusing results in research as well. But at least in the western world, lack of desire in females is a highly reported event, one which women themselves are constantly asking for help with to their doctors. (And they are getting met with deer in headlight eyes because doctors are literally clueless).

I think the studies are showing that women are far more sexually complex than most men realize...thus your number 3. Some men just never "get" this. Then there are a couple other factors:

1. Some women are just good old nature-born LD and lack of desire will be inevitable for those women in all relationships, except for brief periods. (Plenty of men are as well).

2. Some women (and plenty of men) are sexually repressed, endured sexual trauma, or have some other kind of sexual aversion. Many of these women will not have a high libido (though some will).

3. Some men (and plenty of women) suck in bed and their spouse doesn't want sex because of it.

4. Since most marriages end in divorce (more than half) it should be obvious that those couples did not love each other by the end of it. And since both men and women tend to want sex more with their beloved when they are actually in love, this explains a lot of people (both men and women) who don't desire each other anymore. Typically if you have fallen out of love, you also kind of get repulsed by your partner. 

When you add all these up, you find a lot of women eventually not wanting to have sex in monogamous relationships for many different reasons. 

Men are more orgasm centric and therefore, the urge for sex may be nearly the same as the urge for orgasm...which could stand alone or be via sex, the man typically will be happy to have either (generally speaking). 

I think women don't want to have sex quite under the same urge. I know many women (SA, looking at you) will say their O is very important to them and is the drive for them to have sex. But I also know for most women, an excellent heart pounding romp with a skilled lover is so vastly superior to just getting off on your own that there's no comparison to be made at all. This difference is part of why I think (some) men will consider sex "good" that their woman considered "meh" and we can't even explain why this is sometimes.

(I know some women are horrible lovers guys, so the above is not a blanket statement about men...you can be a great lover and she might still yawn!)


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't have any specific advice because I don't know your situation. The issues are very complex as to why this happens. But one thing I know for sure is that you need to keep dating each other, and you both need to keep acting like "suitors" of each other.
> 
> Here's a bunch of articles about this phenomenon:
> 
> ...


I think this is some of the reason why Mrs. Conan has kept her infatuation for me over the years. I have never stopped dating/pursuit/suitor mode. I simultaneously show her I am "hungry" for/ desire her appeal to her feminine "narcissism" of making her feel I would cross boundaries and conquer enemies to obtain her physically. I am not always "nice" but demanding, I let her know what I like for her appearance. I don't just tell her she looks good, I tell her what it turns me on to see her in.

While I am also showing her that I am worth obtaining. I would never cheat but she knows I will not put up with a marriage at all cost, I stay fit, groomed and active around both sexes in public settings. She gets to see me interact with men and women and see that not only men think my companionship is worthwhile.

With Mrs. Conan, I am hunter and prey.

I also, do not neglect the numerous good habits or activities that every marriage needs. Considerate, mindful of her needs in and out of the bedroom, hard working good provider, loving father, etc....


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think women don't want to have sex quite under the same urge. I know many women *(SA, looking at you)* will say their O is very important to them and is the drive for them to have sex. But I also know for most women, an excellent heart pounding romp with a skilled lover is so vastly superior to just getting off on your own that there's no comparison to be made at all. This difference is part of why I think (some) men will consider sex "good" that their woman considered "meh" and we can't even explain why this is sometimes.


 Yes I love my O.. if I've given the impression this is *the* driving factor...well, I may want it, crave it.. (especially during THAT phase or once you get going )...but it's surely so much more.... the emotional passionate indulgence makes me feel on top of the world.. .how can one even due justice in words alone.... it's the deepest of acceptance and touches body , soul, mind and spirit. 

I have questioned my H on this (his allure , lust to other women).. he knows he can speak freely.. I feel it's natural to find others physically attractive... I consider myself a visual woman ... I'd rather he do his own post but I doubt it will happen...he's always said ... he's never wanted another..what he says lines up with what *I feel* from him...so devoted.. the closest he has come to a mid life crisis, was more about our children growing up, getting  about this, feeling older yrs ago now.. (which will likely raise it's head again with a senior this year & another next year.) 

But (and some will judge him for this but I do not, and just tying to keep it honest).... when we went to the Gentleman's club (yeah higher class strip club 5 yrs ago now)...air grinding only.. his member responded to a dance.. and ya know what. I was thrilled about it [email protected]#. ...

Truth is.. I was worried about his testosterone levels at the time , even had him tested.. as he couldn't keep up...and that was proof enough ...MY honey is just fine [email protected]#@... the plumbing is working ..Oh yeah ~ didn't even need touched ! YES! This happens with us too, but I was wearing him out.. 

That sexy novelty turned up his motor that night and I was lovin' it... I realize many women would not understand me.. I guess it's a case where...you'd just have to know US as a couple.. we've been together since DIRT.. it's just a non issue...

I told him we can go back there every week !...but the allure wore off after a couple times going. Oh well. I think it's perfectly normal to look at someone and think "Damn they're hot".. ya know.. but you have to have your boundaries firm.. .. and really.. none of these people have the memories with us, the emotional ties, the things that bring the sweet vulnerability in us...where we can run to them. throw our arms around them and just be ourselves..







it's nothing comparable at all really.. 

The lust centers of the Brain are in the same area as Love but they are different, one is value neutral (we can't help it) , but our brains can STOP these things so we don't put ourselves in a position to FALL...

And obviously .... when you got both going on.. it's pure fireworks. nothing greater.. but if it's just one or the other.. it's on a lesson plane...

I hope I have not gone too off topic here! Only read a few posts..


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Bad Santa, yes that is a good observation. 

I think what is more of a turn off for me than being too O focused is when a man is "monitoring" me for sexual responses. Bleah.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My husband would just be sad if I didn't orgasm.. he would not feel it was "as fulfilling" somehow ....He would even feel "selfish" about it... . he would never be the type to make me feel bad if it didn't happen though... he is not demanding in any way.. he'd never do anything to hurt me emotionally if I struggled here ...he'd know this is terribly counterproductive ...but yet.. I believe it would still affect him internally... being the natural pleaser he is... I don't think he can help this either.

We've talked about this a few times over the years.... 

There was a time I was wearing him out.. a romp the night before... then he was ready in the am again.. and I told him I didn't think I could go..(probably shouldn't have said this !)....told him to take me sideways. I wanted him to get his.. Oh yeah!!

He stopped... looked at me, his eyes got glassy (I am thinking .. WOW.. really?? you care THIS MUCH [email protected]#$.. kinda blew me away ... a moment I will never forget!).. it was very touching though... at the time I was worried I bother him* too much*.. so this was goooood.... he let me know he never wants to see the day when I slow down..saying that would be a sad sad day... Music to my ears that morning.. 

So we didn't do it that am...That's how much my orgasm means to him.. but ya know.. I am very happy he is geared this way...it works for us.. .. however.. had he married another who had trouble here... it would have bothered him a great deal.. I just know this.. knowing how he is.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

faithful wife said:


> i don't have any specific advice because i don't know your situation. The issues are very complex as to why this happens. *but one thing i know for sure is that you need to keep dating each other, and you both need to keep acting like "suitors" of each other.*


bingo!


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Bad Santa, yes that is a good observation.
> 
> I think what is more of a turn off for me than being too O focused is when a man is "monitoring" me for sexual responses. Bleah.


I don't disagree, but would argue that this will come across as contrary to much of the advice men get, include in this forum. Men are taught to not leave their woman hanging, to make sure it is good for her and to make sure that it is not all about him. Because of this advice, many men focus (too much, as it turns out) of her orgasm - often looking to her to see what is working and what does not.

Going back to an early point you made:



> This difference is part of why I think (some) men will consider sex "good" that their woman considered "meh" and we can't even explain why this is sometimes.


This is where women need to better communicate with their man what it is they need out of sex. Because to many men, being told not to focus on her orgasm seems contradictory to making sure she is enjoying the experience.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes communication is necessary.

Though I've heard many women say that they have tried to communicate what they need in bed, only to have their guy get offended and withdraw. 

Believe it or not many guys just can't direction and are offended any is being given.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes communication is necessary.
> 
> Though I've heard many women say that they have tried to communicate what they need in bed, only to have their guy get offended and withdraw.
> 
> Believe it or not many guys just can't direction and are offended any is being given.


I don't doubt that. But your own quote was that many women can't explain why. So if a woman can't understand it, how is her man supposed to figure it out? So in those instances, the communication issue is on her.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I don't doubt that. But your own quote was that many women can't explain why. So if a woman can't understand it, how is her man supposed to figure it out? So in those instances, the communication issue is on her.


Yes, they absolutely both should try to communicate.

But the scenario I was describing where it is hard for a woman to explain why sex was "meh" sometimes, is when he's laying there spent and saying "wow, baby what a blast!" and she's like "ummm...."

In that moment, it is very difficult to take a man down from his high.

But yes, later, she should try to communicate her desires and needs.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, they absolutely both should try to communicate.
> 
> But the scenario I was describing where it is hard for a woman to explain why sex was "meh" sometimes, is when he's laying there spent and saying "wow, baby what a blast!" and she's like "ummm...."
> 
> ...


I am confused now. You were very clear earlier that often women could not explain why the sex was "meh". Are you now saying that they know why it was no good but find it difficult to say anything in the moment. Because that is a very different scenario that what you posted before.


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Lots of great posts! One piece I want to highlight is the "both" part of all this. The minute one or the other stops putting the energy in the relationship begins to die. Its not him or her its if they both want this and are willing to put the relationship above everything else (including and maybe especially themselves).


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I am confused now. You were very clear earlier that often women could not explain why the sex was "meh". Are you now saying that they know why it was no good but find it difficult to say anything in the moment. Because that is a very different scenario that what you posted before.


It is all of that and more. It is hard to tell guys what you need and want because many times they are very un-receptive. It is also hard to describe why sex is "meh" right after finishing...it still might be hard to describe why later, but it might not. It is definitely hard to describe to a man who thinks the goal is an orgasm if what you are missing is behaviors that will not cause an orgasm. It is also hard to describe what the problem is if your partner can't actually deliver what you're asking for, and sometimes you don't know if he can or not. 

Where do we find words for such things? There's no examples around. How do we say it? What do we say that will get through to you? This really is an issue for a lot of women. Stupid Cosmo articles don't give you these kinds of tools...and even if you find some advice on how to talk to a man about crappy sex, your issue might be so specific to your body or that one man that you don't get any help from a general article.

I've gone through all of that and found my ways of communicating finally...but for a long time when younger, it was very difficult (and honestly I was never successful in getting a man from "meh" to "YAY!" sex just by giving direction).


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> It is all of that and more. It is hard to tell guys what you need and want because many times they are very un-receptive. It is also hard to describe why sex is "meh" right after finishing...it still might be hard to describe why later, but it might not. It is definitely hard to describe to a man who thinks the goal is an orgasm if what you are missing is behaviors that will not cause an orgasm. It is also hard to describe what the problem is if your partner can't actually deliver what you're asking for, and sometimes you don't know if he can or not.
> 
> Where do we find words for such things? There's no examples around. How do we say it? What do we say that will get through to you? This really is an issue for a lot of women. Stupid Cosmo articles don't give you these kinds of tools...and even if you find some advice on how to talk to a man about crappy sex, your issue might be so specific to your body or that one man that you don't get any help from a general article.
> 
> I've gone through all of that and found my ways of communicating finally...but for a long time when younger, it was very difficult (and honestly I was never successful in getting a man from "meh" to "YAY!" sex just by giving direction).


You start out by saying it is both, yet every example says it is not only the latter, but actually any time women try to raise the issue men won't listen.

Mot sure that is a fair characterization, but appreciate the clarification.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

My characterization comes from my own experience, which is definitely not necessarily going to match anyone else's exactly. However, I have talked to or read literally hundreds of women saying they have found the same thing.

Even here, on this thread, I am having a hard time telling YOU what I'm trying to say, because you keep wanting me to say something that will not sound like the man is to blame. Yet, what I'm trying to get at is talking about the man's *performance*. You want to make it about blame, but it is about communication...yet the man will likely hear it as blame, not communication, and therefore you can't get him to hear how he could improve his performance. He's too focused on the blame part. These few posts with you feel just like what I'm trying to describe to you.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes communication is necessary.
> 
> Though I've heard many women say that they have tried to communicate what they need in bed, only to have their guy get offended and withdraw.
> 
> Believe it or not many guys just can't direction and are offended any is being given.


There's a way to communicate without degrading or insulting someone. 

If your wife or husband needs and adjustment for YOUR preference or what feels good for YOU, lightly adjust and talk to them. Guide them without forcing them. 

It's not that they are doing x y z "wrong", it's that this adjustment makes it feel better.

Knocking the wind out of someones sails and confidence from 10 to zero is not really effective approach.


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Some men hear "communication" as blame and some don't. Some women hear "communication" as blame and some don't. Its seems that if you (man or woman) are a good and intelligent communicator with high expectation of your relationship and are paired with someone who does not match you well in those areas you're going to be unhappy with the outcome.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Even when we hear and respond to "communication" without any kind of bias or negative reaction, correctly applying that information is a slippery area. (Pun intended.)

I know I can get it wrong a few times before consistenly getting it right, but the results are worth it to us both. Those "Eureka!" moments are probably part of why we keep communicating and experimenting.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Shoto1984 said:


> Some men hear "communication" as blame and some don't. Some women hear "communication" as blame and some don't. Its seems that if you (man or woman) are a good and intelligent communicator with high expectation of your relationship and are paired with someone who does not match you well in those areas you're going to be unhappy with the outcome.


It just seems disproportionate. The same man can be fine with some types of communication and input, and then totally shut down with the type of input I'm talking about. Many women talk about this phenomenon. I'm sure men talk about strange things women commonly do as well...but that doesn't mean this one isn't (generally) true about (many) men.


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm lucky in that, for the most part, DH isn't offended or hurt when I softly "adjust", as someone said before, what he's doing in the bedroom; but even if he doesn't shut down or the mood isn't effected, I still feel less enthusiasm for a while. And then the next time I need to adjust what he's doing, I hesitate because I don't want him to lose his enthusiasm. Focusing on whether or not to adjust what he's doing is a _massive_ arousal killer. It's something I don't face often, but it massively sucks when I do.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Pride and ego. If you tend to criticize a man, their pride and ego tends to be wounded. 

Also men hate that they are failing, so they sometimes shut down and don't want to hear it.

Any criticism feels like an attack and they get defensive.

I just happen to be more receptive than most men.

When I am with someone, I ask them what they like at first, and then go exploring together. 

There should be randomness on what is done. 

Routine is boring.


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> It just seems disproportionate. The same man can be fine with some types of communication and input, and then totally shut down with the type of input I'm talking about. Many women talk about this phenomenon. I'm sure men talk about strange things women commonly do as well...but that doesn't mean this one isn't (generally) true about (many) men.


We only know for sure about our own experience and from my "small" sample  I can tell you that I've offered constructive suggestions in very non threatening and diplomatic ways to females and it hasn't been accepted very well. Just say'n


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I totally believe you, and I'm sure I've been a total dunce in one or more ways having to do with taking direction. Maybe part of the issue is that men DON'T give more direction or suggestion to us about sex? I'm not sure, but I definitely think men should give direction and instruction and ask for it how they want it.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I totally believe you, and I'm sure I've been a total dunce in one or more ways having to do with taking direction. Maybe part of the issue is that men DON'T give more direction or suggestion to us about sex? I'm not sure, but I definitely think men should give direction and instruction and ask for it how they want it.


This is another area where I think men and women are very similar sexually. They both have strong sexual egos. In my experience, women are just as bad at taking sexual instruction, regardless of how it is offered. The difference being that when a woman complains about a man not taking it well, she is likely to be validated with he's selfish, what a jerk, that damned male ego...when a man complains about it, he is likely to be invalidated with dude, at least your getting SOMETHING.


----------

