# Husband has a crush on someone else



## 1990 (Mar 3, 2012)

I've bee married for 17 years with 3kids. Twelve months ago my family and I moved to another city for a career change which involves both my husband and I going back to study at uni full time for a few years first. Anyway, about 6 months ago my hubby started being friendly with a female who started off being a study mate which quickly turned into a boozy group with 2 other men. I began to be suspicious about her as she is ten years younger than the 3 married men in the group. She is single, pretty, slim, and clever as well (the package!!) she's had several boyfriends in not much time at all I think she is very demanding etc as she can't seem to keep a boyfriend for long. Anyway, I became suspicious that my husband was developing feelings for her and perhaps through my jealousy, I started checking his emails etc. the four of them constantly email each other and go out to the pub and catch up for lunch etc. one day while checking the computer internet history I discovered that he was constantly checking her face book page and had also worked out her star sign from her birthday and was constantly checking her horoscope. I kept this to myself for many months which depressed me greatly and to the point that I am now on anti depressant medication and seeing a counsellor. However, so far this has only helped a little. I eventually told him that I knew about it. At first he denied it, then eventually admitted it. He was angry with me that I was checking the computer history etc and said that I shouldnt have said anything but should have just trusted him that he is dealing with it. But if he was dealing with it why was the checking on her getting more frequent? Anyway, now I find myself checking his email all the time, and I find emails that he doesn't tell me about. I've told him a few times that he needs to be honest and open with me, but he is still not telling me about many of the emails and what the four of them have planned etc, and I've noticed that he is replying to her emails but then deletes them straight away. I feel is is still being dishonest and hiding things from me. I've told him that I don't check his email, so he doesn't know that I do. I can't just bring it up that he's hiding stuff from me coz then he'll know that I've been checking them. I find myself compulsively checking it. I don't know what to do. His crush is one sided, that is, I'm pretty sure she is not interested, but she is one of those girls who gets off on flirting with men, particularly married ones (the other 2 in the group are also married). I'm trying to concentrate on myself by going to the gym etc, but i find I am obsessing with his life and turning into a control freak, how can I let this go? I trust him that he won't have an affair, but the fact that he's got a crush on someone else really affects me. It has knocked my self esteem immensely and I feel like he's sort of betrayed me. I often feel like I'm not good enough and that I'm not the one he wants. He tells me he loves me and wants me, but I just can't bring myself to be convinced. Sorry this post is so long, thanks for your time in reading it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

just a quick question: How are you so sure he wont have an affair? And what do you mean when you say affair? Affairs take many different forms EA(emotional, no sex..yet), and PA(sex and sometimes EA combined). It sounds to me like he is dead in the middle of an EA. A PA is only a matter of time unless you step in quickly and firmly. Ive been right where you are. I waited well past my comfort level for several months...mistake. It only allows the feelings to grow. The sooner you stop this the better your chances of saving your marriage.

I recommend some spyware on his phone and a VAR in his car for starters.

Dont hesitate here, you stand to lose big time. Im sorry youre here.

CTU


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

I know you are hurting, but think about it.....He could just open another email account and just not tell you. If she comes on to him, what makes you think he will say no? Sure, she may not be interested in a relationship, but you said she is the type to flirt with married men. She likes the ego boost, the attention. 

I don't know her or you, but I can tell you it will drive you crazy checking up on all this stuff all the time. Do you want to live with this kind of crap? He is giving his time and attention to another person and barking back at you. 

Don't let that get to your self esteem. You are upholding your marriage! He is acting like a highschooler, checking her fb and horoscope??? He is the one who will be losing respect for himself when the fog lifts and he sees how little integrity he had/has.

I lost it over this kind of crap and really regret it. Keep your cool and self-respect. Don't let him take it from you.


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## Lee_Schreck (Apr 18, 2012)

Tough spot you're in, and experience tells me he will minimize his actions. Chances are he's portrayed you to this other woman to be something you're not to better justify his feelings for her.

I've always thought _I_ shouldn't have to put a stop to my husband's affairs. They never should have started to begin with. But I realize I may be the minority in that line of thought.

Bottom line is, if you're uncomfortable with it, it has to stop.

Best of luck to you, I hope things work out the way you want them to.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Take action! My WS also had a crush I used to tease him about, now years later I'm questioning all that really went down. She was younger and I thought nothing of it at first... Also, married 17 years with 2 kids. Course, I discovered he had a ONS ten years ago so he hasn't been the most honest husband out there. Just be careful! Hugs!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

This is very dangerous territory. Don't discount this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> This is very dangerous territory. Don't discount this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Yes it is! Your are actually lucky to have the chance to stop this before it gets out of hand. My H never breathed a word about his "friend". The first time I knew of her existence was when I discovered her "I love you" emails to him.


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## 1990 (Mar 3, 2012)

I trust him that he won't have an affair. I am just hurt that he finds her so attractive when I always thought I'd be the only one he would be attracted to. Not sure if that is being a little naive, but I'm also really uncomfortable when he ogles slim /sexy women in public. He does it all the time. I get jealous and feel that I'm not sexy to him if he needs to look at other women. 
Thanks for all the replies. It's good to get different opinions.
I just want this all to stop and for it to stop ruling my life. I can't get it out of my head and I find that I can't concentrate on other things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

1990 said:


> I trust him that he won't have an affair. I am just hurt that he finds her so attractive when I always thought I'd be the only one he would be attracted to. Not sure if that is being a little naive, but I'm also really uncomfortable when he ogles slim /sexy women in public. He does it all the time. I get jealous and feel that I'm not sexy to him if he needs to look at other women.
> Thanks for all the replies. It's good to get different opinions.
> I just want this all to stop and for it to stop ruling my life. I can't get it out of my head and I find that I can't concentrate on other things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am telling you from personal experience, you need to put your foot down now. Hopefully, others on here can give you advise on how to do that. I just know myself and many others on here would agree they thought their spouses would never cheat on them and they did. I trusted my husband completely, so now I feel total complete devastation. He used to talk badly about people that cheated and had the family guy reputation at work!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The most important thing is your husband (or you) should not be going out and hanging with a boozie group of people. Gno/bno's are death to a relationship and usually sooner than later. Sooner or later someone is going to get drunk and screw up.

Google emotional affair signs and confront your husband. His lying is telling you everything you need to know. There are no secrets/privacy in a healthy marriage. Thats because when two people marry they become one. You need to put your foot down.

If he has a smart phone you should be able to get deleted texts.

It looks like he has already replaced his marriage with his boozie group of friends.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Sooner or later someone is going to get drunk and screw up.


:iagree:

I speak from experience. WS's ONS was from a drunken night with his coworker buddies.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Part of the reason you're obsessing is that he's checked out of your marriage. He is carrying on a secret private life that doesn't include you and he has zero desire to make you a part of it.

As has been said, this is very, very serious. It's the heart of why affairs are so awful. Cheaters think it's all about getting physical with someone else. But it's not. It's about turning away from the marriage. So you see, in a way, you can "cheat" on your marriage without an affair partner.

He has stopped sharing his dreams, fears, vulnerabilities with you.

Have you thought about asking him to go to marriage counseling? If so, what did he say? I'm not saying that is the next step for the two of you. I'm just curious if you've investigated this and if so what his reaction was.


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## astooge (Jan 31, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> just a quick question: How are you so sure he wont have an affair? And what do you mean when you say affair? Affairs take many different forms EA(emotional, no sex..yet), and PA(sex and sometimes EA combined). It sounds to me like he is dead in the middle of an EA. A PA is only a matter of time unless you step in quickly and firmly. Ive been right where you are. I waited well past my comfort level for several months...mistake. It only allows the feelings to grow. The sooner you stop this the better your chances of saving your marriage.
> 
> I recommend some spyware on his phone and a VAR in his car for starters.
> 
> ...




:iagree: I was fortunate enough to put my foot down to my wife's friendship with a male co-worker very early in the EA. If you do use spyware/VAR don't feel that you are snooping, you are validating your gut-feelings (hopefully wrong).


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

That sinking feeling of panic and doom is probably the WORST feeling we go through when we find out something like this.

I'm sorry you're here.


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## 1990 (Mar 3, 2012)

I've asked him to tell me every time he gets an email from her, or sees her etc and I think he agreed. But since then I have checked his email and seen that she has sent an email which he has read. This was 2 days ago and he still has not told me about it. I don't know what to do. If I bring up the topic again he will know that I know he has received a recent email from her. I don't understand. He knows this really upsets me and continues to tell me that nothing is going on. So, why does he continue to hide stuff from me. He told me that he no longer has feelings for her, but of course, I don't think I believe this. I am interested to hear your opinions about what he should be doing to prove this to me - that he no longer has feelings for her.
He still thinks that the only way he could do something wrong is if he sleeps with her. He doesn't get it that the fact of having a crush is a form of betrayal of trust and it is wrong particularly when the other partner is really upset about it, so much so that it has sent them into depression.
How can I get him to understand that he has already crossed the line? That an affair is not just about sex?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Find a book called "Not just friends". I've heard of it many times in here as recommended reading for EA's. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

PBear said:


> Find a book called "Not just friends". I've heard of it many times in here as recommended reading for EA's.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass, it will help you a lot because right now you're second-guessing yourself and wondering if it's all in your head and if you're being "controlling" or jealous or silly.

Point out to him that cheating is NOT about kissing or having sex with someone. It's creating a private, secret relationship with someone outside the marriage. It can even happen with someone of the same sex who you are not sexually interested in (there's a thread on the board right now of this situation that nearly brought on a divorce).

It's a tough call how far checked out of the marriage he is. If you think it would help, there's also the books His Needs / Her Needs, Love Busters, and 5 Love Languages--there are free questionnaires on the book websites. At a bare minimum, you can show him that you are willing to work on the marriage, and you can try to pry out of him via Love Busters ways that you annoy him (and I mean, NORMAL ways--my husband was highly irritable during his EA and nothing would please him--so I'm not talking about that). More importantly, you can identify how he prefers to receive love, and he can learn the same about you.

But the thing is, if he's in an EA he has already started to get hormonal dopamine rewards from communicating with this girl, and their bonding gets stronger every time they talk. As hard as it is to believe, it physically changes the brain (they could actually measure it in a lab.) It is highly addictive and this explains his strange behavior--you would think it would be a small thing to cut off emailing her, but in all likelihood he simply can't quit cold turkey. What's tough is that to get out of that cycle, he will have to be out of contact with her for quite some time.


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

How do you understand if he has already crossed the line??? He crosses the line once you are uncomfortable with his acitons!! 

You also say, "you trust he will not cheat on you"... how do you trust this if he is hiding this infactuation for this woman, lying to you already about ready her horiscope, etc??? You are in complete denial.

You tell him to find another "study" buddy, because study buddies dont have any "hidden" communication, this relationship has moved far beyond just studying. 

Also, you seem to know a lot about this woman, have you met her? Or is that jealously that is talking, and that is normal, but your husband must support your "ways" and not push your buttons by being emotionally involved with another woman. Put a stop to his childish behavior immediately, he is acting like a 20 yr. old college guy, a man who is trying to get his youth back. Wake him up from his dream.

Also, boozing with this person is totally inappropriate!!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

He is being exceptionally cruel, selfish and unfeeling. His actions are not those of a man who respects and values his wife. Not looking at other woman while you are present is an easy thing to do out of love. Breaking contact with this women is an easy thing to do if he loved you enough. 

At present, he is not concerned about your distress or your happiness. He is also not concerned about losing his family. He will not change because he does not have to. You are there, no matter how he treats you. What are the consequences of boozing it up with his buddies, being friends with this woman and hurting you? None. 

You are treated the way you allow yourself to be treated. Yes, this is totally in your control. You will have to do what you are not accustomed to doing. Give as much as you get in your marriage, be willing to let him go and institute bounderies. You lack self confidence and you have no idea of your power. 

Stop providing for his needs at this point. He has not earned what you provide for him. This is not revenge it is a declaration of your respect for yourself and your value. Keep exercising and cultivate interst that take you out and around new people. Have girls night out, dress fashionably and get your hair done. Cool things down with him and stop checking. The more you watch him the more he will do as he pleases. He needs to worry about you and feel the anxiety tha you feel. 

Don't worry about losing him, if cooling it precipitates losing him then you never had him to begin with. If you don't change the way you are in this relationship you will be on meds and checking up on him in perpetuity. This is no way to live. The thought of losing him may be scary but is it worse that being a doormat?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Breaking contact with this women is an easy thing to do if he loved you enough.


I respectfully disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with loving her enough. There is just enough zing to dopamine that it can create that fog we constantly talk about that makes it hard for him to break it ON HIS OWN. This is why there are so many recommendations for taking actions that break the fog, i.e., exposure to people he loves and respects, exposure to OW significant other / family, and if need be, filing for divorce (as a wakeup call with the willingness to follow through if need be). It puts things in stark black and white: are you really willing to risk the marriage for this? And it shakes them back into realizing, I do love my spouse enough to break this off. The love was there, it was just temporarily out of sight.

I think the problem with catching an EA just as it's forming or teetering on the brink is that it gives the betrayer too much ability to lie to themselves and their spouse about what's really going on. But of course waiting until the I love you's are exchanged is deadly too.

1990: Please read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.

But I agree with Catherine that turning toward improving yourself and boosting your own self confidence is something that you need to start ASAP, because you will need it no matter what the future holds. Your self-confidence never resided in your spouse, but perhaps you've forgotten this or didn't realize it. (1990, this is known as the '180'--just let us know if you need links to it.)


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

1990 said:


> I trust him that he won't have an affair.


Your trust (especially with the evidence you've already gathered), is the very thing that will lead to his betrayal.

The problem is that this woman makes you uncomfortable, and for good reason. Your husband is already showing signs of interest in her and lucky for you she is not reciprocating to him... otherwise I'm not quite sure he would be able to resist if she were. That should scare you immensely, and throwing "trust" into that situation is downright foolish. All it will take is for her to show some interest in him and things will begin to escalate between them... all right under your nose while you are "trusting" him.

First of all, you need to have a calm discussion with your husband about boundaries. No finger-pointing or heated exchanges of anger, but a loving and calm discussion about what makes you uncomfortable. If during this conversation he uses the "why don't you trust me" line, you should then turn it around that this isn't about trust it's about what makes you uncomfortable, and if he loves you and respects you as the most important person in his life then he will stop hanging out with this woman and stop contacting her, even if it means not hanging out with the group. Because this is your boundary, he should respect it.

Also it wouldn't hurt to point out to him all the stories of infidelity in how what starts out as innocent friendships ultimately start escalating into affairs, and often without the people involved initially planning for it to happen that way. The issue is as people hang out they form a friendship bond. Then the more they hang out the stronger the bonds get. And before they know it, they're emotionally attached to the other person without realizing it was ever happening and by then it's usually too late... the escalation has already occurred and the next step is usually the physical affair. All of this can happen seemingly unintentionally at first, and it is important to explain this to him, get him to understand it, so that he realizes how important it is for your marriage to make sure he goes No Contact (NC) with this woman starting now.

Also, you both should read the book His Needs, Her Needs together because it explains everything you should do together in your relationship to keep your bond strong over time and make sure you are always completely transparent about your whereabouts. If there's ever anything to hide from each other, eventually that will destroy your marriage.

If he tries to use the "trust" card against you, just shut him down immediately by saying he's already damaged your trust by his activities online and communication with her. Those are the facts. If he wants your trust, he needs to earn it back at this point and that is where the NC comes in. Full transparency. And if he wants to keep hanging out with this crowd, then tell him certainly he won't mind then if you come along and join them every time? See how he responds to that...


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

I am married 21 years, 2 kids, and my H was acting JUST AS YOURS. 

Then in a drunk night he kissed a girl. Never thought he would. Your instincts are telling you this isn't right. Listen to them. Act now and don't waste time. 

My H denied, denied, denied and now 2 years later he is admitting his feelings that he was fighting (knowing it was wrong) but couldn't quit checking her out on FB, Twitter, etc. He slowing was checking out of our marriage but had no clue he was. 

He needs to stop the drinking, as this got worse with my H because he was fighting his own internal wars, and the drinking lessened the confusion.

Sorry your here...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I respectfully disagree with the hormone garbage excuse for cheating. We are not ruled by hormones. That is just the latest in a long line of poor excuses for selfish hurtful and behavior. 

Animals are rulled by neurotransmitters but humans are uniquely positioned to rule over their biology, if they choose. We can act like animals if we chose and decend into the pleasure seeking behavior - sex, drugs, porn etc. Most people aspire to avoid that fate. 

The dopamine junk science is the latest in a long line of sad excuses for lack of control - "the devil made me do it". 

This man thinks his dopamine rush is more important than the unhappiness and depression he causes his wife. Indeed if love for a spouse is so weak and pleasure seeking so strong then we all have an excuse to run after fresh dopamine meat. 

In that case, his wife is more susceptible to an affair than he is. She will tire of his machinations and find her own dopamine validation rush.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I respectfully disagree with the hormone garbage excuse for cheating. We are not ruled by hormones. That is just the latest in a long line of poor excuses for selfish hurtful and behavior.
> 
> Animals are rulled by neurotransmitters but humans are uniquely positioned to rule over their biology, if they choose. We can act like animals if we chose and decend into the pleasure seeking behavior - sex, drugs, porn etc. Most people aspire to avoid that fate.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone around here sees it as an excuse. It's an explanation for why normal mentally healthy people behave with temporary irrationality.

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it. My husband went three years ago from bawling his eyes out at the idea of being separated from his soulmate (he never did nail down her birthday and doesn't know as much about her family as I figured out in a few minutes) to not really giving her much thought.

I'm curious why you think the dopamine reward cycle is junk science.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

1990 said:


> I trust him that he won't have an affair.


He's already having an affair!
If I were you I'd consider this as such.
I agree with Humble_Pie that he crossed the line and the fact that he's hiding it from you means that something's going on.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I respectfully disagree with the hormone garbage excuse for cheating. We are not ruled by hormones. That is just the latest in a long line of poor excuses for selfish hurtful and behavior.
> 
> Animals are rulled by neurotransmitters but humans are uniquely positioned to rule over their biology, if they choose. We can act like animals if we chose and decend into the pleasure seeking behavior - sex, drugs, porn etc. Most people aspire to avoid that fate.
> 
> ...


Catherine, I'm normally enlightened to read your posts... they're chock-full-of wisdom and insight to make even the deepest of thinkers think. But this post seems so off-base, as if made in temper. It's not like you.

I can easily disagree with a bunch of things here you dismissed as "junk", because I seem to experience these very chemicals all the time. I'm a volatile creature and I'm damn lucky to have such a strong and wonderful relationship with a wonderful woman... but it's that healthy strength which I feel keeps my ship upright and sailing straight in faithfulness. I feel if I was in a so-so relationship with my wife then things could have gone and been quite different for me a few times in my past, which scares the crap out of me.

The dopamines are real, not junk science. Yes, humans have the power to rule over their biology if in fact they have the stability to do so. But you cannot ignore the fact that your biology in itself is extremely powerful and hard to rule... EXTREMELY HARD. Those people in relationships that are "just ok" or "not so great" I can see could be weaker in their abilities to rule over their biology. 

And another thing to consider is knowledge and understanding of your own biology. before I found TAM and read some books I was seriously ignorant to the fundamentals of chemicals in my body and how they drive my physical feelings. Especially, I had ZERO understanding of what an Emotional Affair was and how these chemicals can contribute to developing an EA. Now that I know this, I can absolutely see how things can progress (unbeknownst) to someone in a weaker relationship where they first make an emotional connection not thinking they're doing anything wrong by it, and ultimately find themselves emotionally attached and primed for a physical affair before it's too late and they realize what's happened.

To assume we can all rule our biology is to assume we are all in healthy, strong relationships with perfect emotional bonds to our spouses that keep us from connecting with another and ultimately straying. Factor in the ignorance level that most people don't even have a TAM resource to inform them and it's relatively unrealistic to expect to generalize we can all make the right decisions all the time.

I love my wife incredibly, but I never realized the damage I could have came so close to doing in the past until I was educated about relationships and needs. Luckily I never let my biology get the best of me on a few occasions, but that's more of a testament to knowing how wonderful my wife is rather than me being a morally strong person. My inner primate is alive and strong and pretty freaking hard to deal with on occasion, especially when my own needs are being relegated to the back burner.

I'm as much a creature of nature as I am a spiritual thinker. Trying to rule over my biology is often a painful task even being in a strong relationship. I can only imagine the struggle others must face in relationships of lesser strength.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

He needs to read the fog. He is having at very least an EA. Wake up before its too late.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with the science showing the effect of dopamine and other neurotransmitters on animal behavior. Those animal studies suggest what may occur in humans. 

There has never been a direct correlation between specific neurotransmitters and human behavior. There are suggestions of what they may do from the accidents of nature. 

Diseases such as depression, Parkinson's disease, OCD are a few. However it is not so simple in humans. We are so complex that for effiecency, one substance has many functions. 

So the biology of dopamine in a monkey is simple compared to that in man. Our behavior is more complex. Ours days are not consumed with sex, eating and procreating. 

However, the conservation of material, a common theme in biology, makes dopomine useful in humans in a far more nuanced way that in socially simple organisms. 

If this woman has not succumbed to dopamine then there is no excuse for her husband. Yes it is an excuse because there is no basis to equate human behavior directly to irresistable urges due to the presence of a chemical substance. 

If that were the case, we would have no free will and we would be at the mercy of forces out of our control. That is not the case. 

It may be difficult to resist whiling away the day in persuit of pleasure and ignore all commitments and responsibilities but most people manage. This man should do the same no excuses.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I feel like we're talking past each other.

I believe all human beings have free will. If we are mentally healthy stable people (and that's a big if), we are making choices all the time, and we deliberately choose not to hurt the ones we love. I think we are in complete agreement about that.

I agree that we're complex. In fact I just finished reading this article 
The Passion Cycle | Psychology Today

that talks about the role prolactin plays, and also how they are still learning precisely what the role is that dopamine plays in sex and orgasms and 'passion.'

But just because we don't know all the hormones involved, or precisely how they work, or that they vary in intensity from person to person, that ergo hormones don't play a role in the intense bonding people feel in affairs. 

We are trying to understand *why it's hard to extricate one's self from an affair* once the stupid choices have been made to enter into one, not why some people make selfish choices and others don't.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> I respectfully disagree with the hormone garbage excuse for cheating. We are not ruled by hormones. That is just the latest in a long line of poor excuses for selfish hurtful and behavior.
> 
> Animals are rulled by neurotransmitters but humans are uniquely positioned to rule over their biology, if they choose. We can act like animals if we chose and decend into the pleasure seeking behavior - sex, drugs, porn etc. Most people aspire to avoid that fate.
> 
> ...


I respect you very much. But, you are way off base here. 

This in not junk science or the most recent excuse. Sex is a basic physiological need, human beings are biologically programmed and compelled to seek mating partners. For following your evolutionary objective, your brain rewards you. These are facts. No one is excusing anything.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It is a nice intellectual exercise to try to figure out why it is so difficult for some. I really don't care why. This woman's husband actively seeks situations that put him in harms way. That is a complex set of behaviors that has nothing to do with dopamine. 

It has all to do with a self centered man who sees no consequences to acting in his own interest. I bet if his wife left his azzz and took one half of the assets, he would not be wallowing in a soup of dopamine. A good dose of reality is an antidote to all slavery to neurotransmitters. 

Thats the difference between man and animals. Animals have no consequences to slavery to dopamine induced pleasure seeking, humans do. 

That has got to mean that we are meant for more than feeding pleasure centers. We are made to control our behavior. Failing that, we should suffer the consequences 

OP You are trying to control him when you should leave the control of his behavior to him. You can only control you. He should feel the consequences of his behavior. If you want to use the dopamine analogy - ok. What ever pleasure he is getting from you, stop giving. Let him try to get his needs met by acting like a dog in heat with this girl while treating his wife like sh!t.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I respect you very much. But, you are way off base here.
> 
> This in not junk science or the most recent excuse. Sex is a basic physiological need, human beings are biologically programmed and compelled to seek mating partners. For following your evolutionary objective, your brain rewards you. These are facts. No one is excusing anything.


Have you read the studies that are the basis of these articles in Psychology Today? I have and the data does not support the conclusion of pop science for public consumption. 

Psychology Today sells magazines, it is entertainment not science. 

Sex is not a basic physiologic need - eating and drinking are but no one dies of lack of sex. In the absence of a willing partner no sex is had. They can still live and if they are healthy mentally they accept their fate. 

Procreation is one prime directive of humankind. However, not every human will have the opportunity to procreate or to have sex at all times in their lives. They don't die. 

Their family line may die out but that does not doom the human race. There is a great deal of redundancy and humankind has seen the demise of many human genetic lines with no apparent extinction. 

Sex is not the most important thing in the world. Man is more than animal instincts. We have much more to accomplish with our lives - art, science, humanity, service, building a further for the next generation. 

The next generation does not have to be our kids but everybody's. If every man and woman went out drinking with buddies and lusting after young adults, that would be all we did. 

Children would be neglected, work would be abandoned, farming would suffer, scientific research would stop, garbage trucks would not pick up trash, we would all die of starvation. But sexually satisfied.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Have you read the studies that are the basis of these articles in Psychology Today? I have and the data does not support the conclusion of pop science for public consumption.
> 
> Psychology Today sells magazines, it is entertainment not science.
> 
> ...


Forgive me Catherine but I think you have a very naive view of how men view sex. They do view it as a NEED. Men have killed for it. Men have given their lives for it. Not trying to offend you but I think you are considering a need to be only what sustains life. Do you need love?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Well again--as far as I'm concerned, the role dopamine / fog plays is to help predict future behavior by someone in an affair. The betrayed spouse keeps expecting their partner to act like the person they knew for many years, and the BSs seem consistently bewildered by it, so obviously it is outside of anything the BS has ever experienced. It defies rationality and logic.

You seem to be willfuly clinging to the idea that it's used as an excuse, and I just haven't seen that represented in people's posts. I just don't know where that idea is coming from, and so all I can say is, I can't argue against it because we're disagreeing on the fundamental premise of why dopamine enters the discussion in the first place.

1990--looking forward to your next post, sorry about the threadjack.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

My education didn't come from a magazine. But thank you for pointing out that they are strictly for entertainment value.

Condescension is way out of character for you. 

For the record, Sexual reproduction is included as a basic physiological need in human beings. It is essential to the survival and propagation of the species.

I have always respected you. You can think what you want, It doesn't matter. I'm not interested in having this arguement with you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Do I need love to live, no. Am I entitled to it, no. Do I deserve it, probably not. 

Do I have a right to kill someone to get it, hell no. I have it and I don't think I am anymore worthy than those who live their whole lives without love. 

Love is not mine to get - I must await another person to willingly give. I have no control over who, where and how love is given to me. 

The same can be said of sex. It is not a right, you are not entitled to it, if you cannot find a willing partner you have to do without. A sense of sex as a requirement, a right is troublesome. Sex depends on the willing participation of another. Your need is not as important as the freedom of the giver to decide. 

However, what ever I get, I have an absolute requirement to give love to those who depend on me - children, the elderly, the helpless and the needy. 

I an naive? No, I am realistic. I don't feel entitled to anything althoght I have a lot. I am not starving, beaten, forced to degrade myself, I have a home and a family. 

There are many people who don't have the basics of life. I am greatful for my abundance any entitlement I feel for extras I human but unreasonable. 

In that context, men don't need sex.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Do I need love to live, no. Am I entitled to it, no. Do I deserve it, probably not.
> 
> Do I have a right to kill someone to get it, hell no. I have it and I don't think I am anymore worthy than those who live their whole lives without love.
> 
> ...


wow. .....ok. Just no reasoning w/you. 

Back to you 1990


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Catherine, I still think you are confused about where the idea of a hormonal component comes in.

I think you perceive the hormonal issue like the popular concept of pheremones, the scent molecules that men and women give off. There is that idea taken advantage of by marketing that you could have a scent so intoxicating that it makes the knees weak and opposite sex your love slave.

This is NOT what any of us are talking about. 

We also are NOT talking about sex drives or biological needs to mate or plant seeds in fertile ground or have as many offspring as possible.

We are also NOT talking about the biology of men vs. women, the stereotype that men want multiple partners and women want a single stable one, and whether we are driven by these evolutionary needs or what have you.

It's something very narrow and specific:
--can a married person who has been a good loyal faithful spouse

--particularly in emotional affairs, become close friends with someone of the opposite sex

--as the friendship matures, they derive more and more enjoyment from each other (dopamine is the reward hormone, hope you're not quibbling with that)

MANY people at this stage refuse to admit to themselves that they've done anything wrong. They have not physically touched the other person. BUT they've formed a strong bond with this person that endangers the marriage. That is the essense of an EA.

NOW: their spouse who they love very much becomes aware of the EA. They demand that their spouse abandon the EA and return to the marriage.

What I see over and over--and this happened to me--is that despite huge enormous outside pressures--the types of social disapproval, loss of a career, loss of life-long friendships, loss of respect of everyone in the family, loss of respect and love of children, loss of every bit of life as they knew it: these spouses will remain in the EA. If they break contact, they return to the EA within a matter of days or weeks.

However, if they have an opportunity to break contact with the EA partner, and some time passes, they return to "themselves." They are horrified that they nearly threw their lives away for someone they barely knew. They called them their soulmate, but in actuality they knew very little about them. 

Do they pine away for this person? That's the way it is in romantic literature. Often, they don't. Just as powerfully as the emotions overtook them, they are gone.

I guess all of this can be explained without bringing up hormones. So we don't have to argue about it being dopamine.

But can you point out which part of this description of the EA you don't buy? Because it's point by point in my stack of books written by licensed therapists.

There are certainly other types of cheating, but this particular hormonal component is most powerfully seen in the EA.

P.S. 1990: I decided to continue this segue from your particular situation because I thought you'd find it helpful, since it's on point with your own situation.


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## 1990 (Mar 3, 2012)

Wow, didn't think I'd get this much discussion! A healthy debate maybe? Ha ha
Anyway,about an update: the relationship between hubby and I in the last few days has been pretty good. 
While I enjoy that, I still wonder what the hell is going through his head! Because I check his email so damn often (which I know is ruling my life but I don't know how to stop myself) I often read his emails before he does then I mark them as unread. So the other night I knew there was an email from her, inviting the group to catch up etc. I had already gone to bed and I knew he would've been checking email before he came to bed. Then when he did come to bed he was very loving towards me. So I'm not sure how to read into this - is it guilt? Or excitement about her? Or is he "pretending" that I'm her?
I have noticed that now he doesn't check his emails when I'm around. Not sure what to make of this either. Not sure if I've mentioned this already, but about a week ago is when he was checking his emails then asked me a question, I turned to answer his question when I saw his list of emails with her name at the top. This is what gave me reason to ask him to tell me about when he gets emails from her. I got quite upset that night and asked him to tell me about when there are emails and when he sees her at uni, because it might help me. I told him how I think of this all the time, can't get it out of my head and am constantly wondering when he goes to uni whether he is seeing her or not. I think he thought I was being a little ridiculous for thinking that. So it's been since that night that he won't check his emails when I'm around and he hasn't told me about any of the emails, there's been about 3 at least. I will see what happens tonight as I know he had a lecture today that she is in as well. 
Also, get this: they are going on a field trip in June for a week and I think they are both going on it with about 30 other students. How the f/;kkk am I going to deal with this??? They are studying the same course but not in all subjects together as they started at different times. I am dreading this field trip coming up. Even if nothing happens between them, which I don't think it will, but he'll still be there ogling her. How the hell am I meant to believe he doesn't have any feelings for her anymore. When he told me this he said it doesn't matter I say, you won't believe me anyway. Well yeah, how does he expect me to believe him. I trusted him in the first place. He still thinks he's done nothing wrong because he hasn't acted out any of his fantasies. He still thinks he has been faithful. I wish this would all go away. I'm seeing my counsellor this week. I haven't told her that I'm still constantly (compulsively) checking his emails and the problems it is causing. I check the emails and know some of what is going on, but have to bottle it up / can't talk to him about it, because then he'll know I'm checking his email. He'll never forgive me for doing that, and also I cant run the risk of him finding out coz then he' ll just change the password which will destroy me if I can't read them, at the moment it's the only way I'm finding out anything - he obviously doesn't tell me much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

Humble Pie said:


> How do you understand if he has already crossed the line??? He crosses the line once you are uncomfortable with his acitons!!
> 
> You also say, "you trust he will not cheat on you"... how do you trust this if he is hiding this infactuation for this woman, lying to you already about ready her horiscope, etc??? You are in complete denial.
> 
> ...


just wanted to repost and I thought my valid response was lost in all the dopamine/pyschological crap that took away from your thread 1990!!


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

1990 said:


> Wow, didn't think I'd get this much discussion! A healthy debate maybe? Ha ha
> Anyway,about an update: the relationship between hubby and I in the last few days has been pretty good.
> While I enjoy that, I still wonder what the hell is going through his head! Because I check his email so damn often (which I know is ruling my life but I don't know how to stop myself) I often read his emails before he does then I mark them as unread. So the other night I knew there was an email from her, inviting the group to catch up etc. I had already gone to bed and I knew he would've been checking email before he came to bed. Then when he did come to bed he was very loving towards me. So I'm not sure how to read into this - is it guilt? Or excitement about her? Or is he "pretending" that I'm her?
> I have noticed that now he doesn't check his emails when I'm around. Not sure what to make of this either. Not sure if I've mentioned this already, but about a week ago is when he was checking his emails then asked me a question, I turned to answer his question when I saw his list of emails with her name at the top. This is what gave me reason to ask him to tell me about when he gets emails from her. I got quite upset that night and asked him to tell me about when there are emails and when he sees her at uni, because it might help me. I told him how I think of this all the time, can't get it out of my head and am constantly wondering when he goes to uni whether he is seeing her or not. I think he thought I was being a little ridiculous for thinking that. So it's been since that night that he won't check his emails when I'm around and he hasn't told me about any of the emails, there's been about 3 at least. I will see what happens tonight as I know he had a lecture today that she is in as well.
> ...


just a question- why havent you talked to your husband about how emotionally distraut you are over this whole situation? Because he will tell you nothing is wrong, that he hasn't done anything? Hell you are on emotional eggshells, that should be enough. 

Also, field-trip, for a week? are they going out of country? I am guessing you have seen the correspondence regarding this trip as I am not going to say this field trip is false, but I dont think it would mandatory, I mean when you are in college, people have a lot of personal obligations outside a school for any week trip to be mandatory. I am leaned towards asking your man not to go, but first you need to establish better communication as I pointed out in my first paragraph before you can make this request.


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## 1990 (Mar 3, 2012)

Yes the field trip is mandatory. He is studying earth science which requires getting out in the field. So yes it's out in the middle of nowhere!
I have tried to tell him how emotionally distraught I am about this, but it hasn't changed things much. He can be very stubborn! And often difficult to convince
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

so you have a husband that doesnt take you feeling into concern, great!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Please get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass, you need some additional validation of why you are feeling this way. You need to arm yourself with concrete reasons why your husband's actions bother you so that when the topic comes up again you can give him specific reasons.

He is either very good at 'gaslighting' (i.e., making you feel like you are the crazy one) or he is in a very typical kind of denial that is the start of an Emotional Affair (EA). Many EAs being as friendships with a little spark of attraction. But anyhow, Not Just Friends explains all this which is why I'm urging you to read it.

The other thing--you do not have proof that your husband is cheating, just that he's interested in someone. So you can also work on your marriage and perhaps pull this back from the brink. (You should not beat yourself up if he's crossed the line, nor should you despair if these methods don't change him, he is an adult making CHOICES here and no inappropriate choice by him is your fault.)

The books Love Busters, His Needs / Her Needs, and the 5 Love Languages can help you reconnect to him. Their websites have questionnaires that are free that you can fill out. Start with the 5 Love Languages website one because it's fast. If you put some of the energy you're spending now worrying on this, it is possible it could help turn this around.

But you are worried for a reason, so do not take these suggestions as minimizing your gut concerns. You sense something, and you should stay vigilant, but not in a way that pushes him out the door.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Humble Pie said:


> so you have a husband that doesnt take you feeling into concern, great!


Agreed.


It's so disrespectful of him to act this way!!


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> It's so disrespectful of him to act this way!!


My H didnt either during his A. The fog clouds that ability. You really need to pay attention here and FIND OUT whats going on.


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## texasmom13 (Feb 18, 2016)

Yes, I have been with my hubby for 24 years and a neighbor girl 26 years younger than him all of a sudden became his "drinking buddy". She came over EVERYDAY. I trusted both of them and didn't say anything and allowed this disrespectful behavior continue for months until they took it to far. He says he didn't do anything wrong as it was never physical, but he had an emotional affair with her. When the disrespect got to the point of him whispering in her ear and sneaking off to her house when her husband left for work, to get high with her, I put an immediate stop to it. It has been 10 months, but I am still not over how disrespectful he treated me and I no longer feel the same about him. He caused me to fall completely out of love with him, and I really don't think I will ever feel the same about him again. It is really sad as I believed we were soul mates. I feel he deliberately destroyed our marriage.

So, I would definitely nip this in the bud, before it goes too far. I never felt threatened by her or any other woman, I am not a jealous person. But, he made me feel as though I was a threat to "their" relationship. Which was wrong. He treated me like someone less than his wife. The Bible says, "If you lust after another woman in your heart, then you have already committed adultery."


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