# Another separated marriage (cont)



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

My original thread was long and all over the place, so I decided to start over from scratch.

For those that did not follow my original thread, I will give you a summary of my situation.

We have been married almost 8 years. We have two kids, a son who is 6, and a daughter who just turned 5 and is disabled. My wife left 6/14/2012. She left stating that she wanted to focus on herself and that she was confident we would get back together.

She gave many reasons why she left, but there are too many to list. The ones I will list include, that I was not emotionally there for her, that I didn't make her feel safe, that I didn't make her happy, that I hurt her, I badgered her etc...

We have had a lot happen between us as a couple. More than most I suppose, but I always thought we got through all the problems and issues just fine. I guess I was wrong.
She was sandbagging things and using them to justify her own unhappiness and insecurities. In many ways, I was quite oblivious to what she was feeling because she never clearly communicated such things to me. There were moments here and there when she would send up warning signs, but then things would be fine again so I never grasped the seriousness of how she was feeling.

Also, in recent history, there was another man. It was not a PA according to both of them, but it was for sure an EA. The guy is my neighbor. She has been NC with him for almost 2 weeks now, so I pray that lasts. Regardless, this man changed her in so many ways, that my W is almost a different person around me. I mean, who wouldn't be? Some guy comes along and always says and does the right things, he listens, and makes her feel special, and suddenly all she sees in me are my flaws.

And to get it out of the way now, I cannot really give you her "side" of the story because I am not her. I can try and give you her perspective, but she can be all over the place about it, so her side is not always clear to me. I can say that she feels that this situation is pretty much my fault. I pushed her away, and most of the blame for her leaving falls on me. She has gone as far as to say that she was living a lie as early as us getting engaged. I guess I am supposed to think that none of the love and good memories were real, that it was just her faking it the whole time.

My perception of our marriage, and this separation are a bit different than hers as you can imagine. I don't believe we have been living a lie for starters. I know there was real love and happiness. I feel she is just as responsible for our separation as I am. We have both made mistakes, and only by owning them and showing remorse can we truly forgive each other and work towards fixing our problems.

I will try to list some of my flaws as a husband so you can get an idea of things I am working on:

I am insecure
I can be needy
I do not always know how to meet my wife's emotional needs
I am short tempered
I am codependent
I did not always do enough to protect my wife from others
I am not a good listener most of the time
I failed to make my wife feel special

That's just for starters. I have been working a lot with my IC to identify my flaws and work on them. My goal is to become a better person, even if my W and I never get back together.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

So fast forward to today. I do not feel we are any closer to solving our issues. There is no clear stance on whether my marriage is over or not.

She still says she does not want a divorce. She occasionally misses me and still loves me. We are slowly starting to spend time together, mostly doing things as a family, but only on her terms and when it is not an inconvenience for her.

The separation itself has been a huge roller coaster. One minute she wants me around, the next she is pushing me away. For the most part she is quite emotionless around me in general. She cannot stand if I bring up any of our problems, or push for answers about where our marriage is headed.

We did manage our first real conversation about our issues a week and a half ago after spending time together for a night at our friends' house. Since then we have spent some time together, but it is usually short lived and she does not really seem to respond to anything I do in a positive way.

We are still going to MC, but MC alone is not enough to fix our problems. I wish my W could afford IC, because many of her problems have nothing to do with me, or if they do it is very indirectly, and I do not have confidence that she can solve her problems without help. Heck, I would be excited for her just to have a true objective friend to talk to about all this like I do. I am afraid that is not really the case though. One of her "friends" is the OM I mentioned before and the other is a woman who just likes to party and who has a different outlook on marriage than my W.

For my part, I am committed to doing everything I can to fix my marriage. If it does fall apart in the end, it will NOT be because I didn't try. In the mean time my immediate focus is working on things I can change. Like me.

I have learned I cannot fix my W, she has to do that on her own. I am trying to detach as much as possible, but that is so much easier said than done.

So that's about as short as I can make this. It has been a painful ride for sure.

And for those of you on TAM that have given me objective advice and been supportive of me, THANK YOU. There are a lot of people here that have been so helpful, I don't know if I can ever repay the kindness. You know who you are, and I want you to know you are wonderful people.

To those that just want to jump on here and make me feel stupid for trying, or bash my wife or I, GO TAKE A HIKE. If I wanted that type of advice or bull crap, I would be talking to my family, not posting it on a public website.

And for those that did not figure it out before, my W has been on TAM reading my thread, and she even jumped in at the end of my last thread making several posts. In no way do I plan on filtering what I write, and I will not purposely mislead anyone here. It is also not my intention for any of you to get drawn into my problems.

I came to TAM because many of you have been in my shoes, or are in my shoes. The things we learn from one another can be invaluable.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm doing OK today. I work a long day, then off to MC tonight. I have my kids tonight and tomorrow and i am looking forward to spending time with them.

There is something I read on Frostflowers thread that hit me pretty hard today. She said that she doesn't want her husband to take it for granted that she wants to R.
I feel the same about my W. She knows I want to R, but I hope she doesn't take that fact for granted. Many things can change, feelings most of all, and i am not immune to the pain that comes with being separated.
There may come a point when i can't take it anymore. But I am not there yet.


----------



## boxhead201 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hi Locke;

I feel for you. Seems like your W is like my STBXW. My STBXW is giving me blinking lights. Red light one day, green light the next. Nice one day, evil the next. I can't deal with her indecisiveness. I have to move on. To deal with the blinking lights I had to go NC. I've been NC now for 30 days. It is hard. I have been focusing on myself, doing the IC thing, reading NMMNG, self-help books, praying, etc. I don't want to re-establish contact with the STBXW because of the blinking lights. The indecisiveness is hard and I can't deal with it.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

boxhead201 said:


> Hi Locke;
> 
> I feel for you. Seems like your W is like my STBXW. My STBXW is giving me blinking lights. Red light one day, green light the next. Nice one day, evil the next. I can't deal with her indecisiveness. I have to move on. To deal with the blinking lights I had to go NC. It is hard.


The NC thing is almost impossible in my case. We each have the kids every other week, and regardless of who's week it is, we both have days that we pick the kids up from daycare due to our work schedules. So regardless of what I try, we see each other a mininum of 3 or 4 nights each week. I guess we could try limiting the length of these interactions, and limit our communication to the kids, but that is SO much easier said than done. I have not managed to go more than a few days under such guidelines.
Not to mention, going NC is hard after 8 years of marriage and seeing/talking with each other almost every day. It goes against not only my beleif on marriage, but it is contrary to the love I still feel for my W.

I don't know. This whole thing just plain sucks.

Mentally I am much more stable now than I was previously, but I still break down from time to time. The worst part about the emotional aspect of all this is that she pretends she is completely OK with all this and does not care one ounce that she is crushing me. I guess it makes sense since she thinks I deserve this and that this whole course of action she chose is my fault.

Boy what a rollercoaster ride we are all on...


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I'm doing OK today. I work a long day, then off to MC tonight. I have my kids tonight and tomorrow and i am looking forward to spending time with them.
> 
> There is something I read on Frostflowers thread that hit me pretty hard today. She said that she doesn't want her husband to take it for granted that she wants to R.
> I feel the same about my W. She knows I want to R, but I hope she doesn't take that fact for granted. Many things can change, feelings most of all, and i am not immune to the pain that comes with being separated.
> There may come a point when i can't take it anymore. But I am not there yet.


Locke,

Has she said cost is an issue for her with IC?

Would she go at it hard if it weren't for the expense?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Locke,
> 
> Has she said cost is an issue for her with IC?
> 
> Would she go at it hard if it weren't for the expense?


She has said she would go to IC, but cost is definately an issue. I wish she could find a way, at least for her sake.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

I think you need to make her IC a condition for your detente. At the very least it would give you a physical marker of whether or not she's serious about meeting you halfway on this Herculean task. It would give you something other than lip service to go on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> I think you need to make her IC a condition for your detente. At the very least it would give you a physical marker of whether or not she's serious about meeting you halfway on this Herculean task. It would give you something other than lip service to go on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well short of me paying for it, there is no possible way at this point. Our copay for counseling is $30 per visit. Even though I shouldn't have, I did offer to help pay for it, which she refused. We have discussed cutting our MC in half to give her one on one time with the MC, but I don't like that it would cut into our MC time. I just don't know. She is living more paycheck to paycheck than I am, and i am strapped.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

And for the record she is much better at managing money than I am which is why she is getting by. But she really has nothing extra to put towards IC at this point.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> She has said she would go to IC, but cost is definately an issue. I wish she could find a way, at least for her sake.


Are you able to sponsor it?

It's the "one" thing I would pay for.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Are you able to sponsor it?
> 
> It's the "one" thing I would pay for.


I could probably make it work. It would be tight. I am already paying $120 per month for MC, but I would find a way. But she already turned down my offer. She doesn't want my help with anything. Her pride has got the best of her so she is determined to prove she can do this all on her own.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I could probably make it work. It would be tight. I am already paying $120 per month for MC, but I would find a way. But she already turned down my offer. She doesn't want my help with anything. Her pride has got the best of her so she is determined to prove she can do this all on her own.


Then let her.

You give defiant people what they want.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Then let her.
> 
> You give defiant people what they want.


That is what my IC says. It's so hard breaking old habits I guess.

I think one of the things I am having a hard time with is wanting to make sure I do the right thing for US during this separation so she doesn't look back and think I didn't give a crap.

I know I need to step back more but I keep falling into old habits and old insecurities.


----------



## Sod (Aug 20, 2011)

Dont think of it as her interpreting as not giving a crap...its the opposite. You want space?.......I will give you space! You want time without pressure from you............Give her time! It wont do any good to argue, beg, plead...it will just drive them away. 

Give them what they want, be firm but fair.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Sod said:


> Dont think of it as her interpreting as not giving a crap...its the opposite. You want space?.......I will give you space! You want time without pressure from you............Give her time! It wont do any good to argue, beg, plead...it will just drive them away.
> 
> Give them what they want, be firm but fair.


I am trying. Every day I get a little bit stronger. At least now i can safely say I don't need my wife in my life. I know I will be OK with or without her. I am not, however, at a point where I can honostly say I don't want her in my life. As of right now I still do.

I think once I get to a solid point of not wanting her in my life, it will be too late for me to turn back.

I guess only time will tell.

Gah, this is such bullsh*t...


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I would find a way. But she already turned down my offer.


Locke, you're dancing around this and protecting her. You say she can't which is the reason. Then you say you've offered but she won't.

I'm saying make it a condition. 

She can either take your money; sell the dining room set; or get some side work to pay for therapy sessions. Arguing about how she can't do this makes excuses for her continued lack of investing in the relationship.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> Locke, you're dancing around this and protecting her. You say she can't which is the reason. Then you say you've offered but she won't.
> 
> I'm saying make it a condition.
> 
> She can either take your money; sell the dining room set; or get some side work to pay for therapy sessions. Arguing about how she can't do this makes excuses for her continued lack of investing in the relationship.


But I like dancing.

But no seriously, she says she wants counseling but wants to figure out how to afford it on her own. She doesn't want my help with anything lately. I know it is necessary for R, but we are not at a point for me to make demands.

Her going NC with the OM was tough and she was angry for a while that I "forced her to give up a friend."

If i push for IC too hard right now I don't know how she would react. I plan to give it more time and see where she goes with it on her own. It needs to be her decision and hwt decision alone.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

What she does is her choice. What you need is your choice. You're mixing the two and the result is her cake eating. What you need from her to justify whether to put effort into R doesn't need to be conditional on when she gets full from cake. 

The problem with this dancing you like is that you are the floor and she's wearing taps. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> What she does is her choice. What you need is your choice. You're mixing the two and the result is her cake eating. What you need from her to justify whether to put effort into R doesn't need to be conditional on when she gets full from cake.
> 
> The problem with this dancing you like is that you are the floor and she's wearing taps.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know I know. You guys are always right. I am still going to take a wait and see approach for now though.

I need to focus more on fixing me.

Oh, and a big blow came this week for my therapy. The martial arts classes I have been attending will stop. The judge ordered the teacher to close his school to avoid having his 50/50 custody changed for not spending enough time with his kids.

He said he will work with me one on one whenever he is free, but it's not the same.

OK, off to MC I go.


----------



## boxhead201 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hi Locke;

FYI - I have 2 kids. I've been married 10 years. I call the kids on the mornings when the STBXW is at work. 

My STBXW banished me from the house. One issue that I had with her is how we do parenting. We both have different views. She refused to see my point of view. 

If I am to see the kids, the STBXW is around, hovering. I can't handle that.

The only thing I can do to get better is NC. Going dark on her. I still contact the kids, but I have to take a communication route to totally avoid the STBXW.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

boxhead201 said:


> Hi Locke;
> 
> FYI - I have 2 kids. I've been married 10 years. I call the kids on the mornings when the STBXW is at work.
> 
> ...


Do what you have to do. Something I am beginning to understand about our WAWs is that they think they are doing the right thing. We don't have to like it but it is what it is. We cannot make sense of it because it is irrational and illogical but to them it makes perfect sense.

Don't give up on your kids no matter how she acts about you seeing them. Those kids need their dad. Period.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

So the lesson from MC is that i need to back off and be more patient.

A couple of weeks ago such an idea would have pissed me off completely. But I am realizing in hindsight that i NEED to not push
When my W chooses to be around me, I need to let it be over when she feels it's over. I need to stop pushing for more. Even though I don't like it, everytime I push for more she wants less. That's the way it has to be for now.

I need to start giving her credit where it is due. She cut out the neighbor guy, and she is slowly beginning to want me around more. I have to stop looking at it as though it were not enough.

She has a fear that i want to get back together for the wrong reasons. She is afraid that i will not be patient enough for her to work this out.

I need to back off whether I like it or not.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

work what out? she's not even in therapy.

it's perfectly ok for you to not to be happy with this. it's not ok for you to try to fix it for her.

i think it's David D'Angelo that talks about the concept of "lean" as in leaning towards or away from somebody. it's an interesting way to rephrase codependency. 

ok. crawling back to the other side of the internet now.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> work what out? she's not even in therapy.
> 
> it's perfectly ok for you to not to be happy with this. it's not ok for you to try to fix it for her.
> 
> ...


I see where you are coming from. I do.

I am emotionally stable enough to try things her way for a while. I truly have a wait and see approach. Time will tell by her actions where this is all going. I don't necessarily like the way things are, but I know I am going to be OK regardless, so i have nothing to lose by waiting it out. My perception has changed a lot in the last few days.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

So today is the first day I am going to make a conscious effort to give my W her space, and enjoy what time she chooses to spend with me without pushing for more.

This is hard. It goes against 8 years of experience to not try and be around my W daily.

I have everything to lose if i push too hard. On the flipside I have nothing to lose by taking a wait and see approach.

I want my W back for the right reasons, and i wish she could see that, but she has to figure things out for herself. Right now she likes being alone and i have to try harder to respect that fact.


----------



## Sod (Aug 20, 2011)

Good luck Locke! Taking the first step is hard, hang in there!!


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Sod said:


> Good luck Locke! Taking the first step is hard, hang in there!!


At this point I am just trying to stop the rollercoaster of emotions this separation has caused.

I have a new and clear determination to do things differently. Or at least to give it an honest try anyway


----------



## gearhead65 (Aug 25, 2011)

Yoda is my hero. "Do or do not. There is no TRY."

You just told everyone here that you aren't going to do it. You're going to try and do it. Once you try, you never get to the do. Don't try. Trying implies failure. Never try. Do.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

gearhead65 said:


> Yoda is my hero. "Do or do not. There is no TRY."
> 
> You just told everyone here that you aren't going to do it. You're going to try and do it. Once you try, you never get to the do. Don't try. Trying implies failure. Never try. Do.


OK OK I will DO this.

But I cannot guarantee I will never ever push, our feelings get the best of us at times. The difference now as I am going to make it a concaious choice to be stronger.


----------



## gearhead65 (Aug 25, 2011)

LockeCPM4 said:


> OK OK I will DO this.
> 
> *But* I *cannot* guarantee I will never ever push, our feelings get the best of us at times. The difference now as I *am going* to make it a concaious choice to be stronger.


"Beware the Qualifiers and Future tense...that is the path to the Dark side."



LockeCPM4 said:


> OK OK I will DO this.
> 
> I guarantee I will never ever push. The difference now as I am making it a conscious choice to be stronger.


That is how it needs to be for you.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

gearhead65 said:


> "Beware the Qualifiers and Future tense...that is the path to the Dark side."
> 
> 
> 
> That is how it needs to be for you.


Uh.. I hate you 

:banghead:


----------



## gearhead65 (Aug 25, 2011)

It's ok. I completely understand. I will expect the same from you if I do it.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I have to say something that strikes me as odd about MC last night.

At one point my W was giving me what I thought was a dirty look, and i pointed out to the MC has she was looking at me with a cold mean look.

My W told me today that i was wrong, and that the look she was giving me was an I love you look.

Now I m usually pretty good at reading my W's facial expressions, and the look she had was intense but she maintains I am way off.

Am I losing my touch or just imagining things?


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I have to say something that strikes me as odd about MC last night.
> 
> At one point my W was giving me what I thought was a dirty look, and i pointed out to the MC has she was looking at me with a cold mean look.
> 
> ...


No you are not imagining things. It's called gaslighting. Read up on it. I bet she has made a habit of doing it throughout your relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Also, Locke you need to stop reading tea leaves. You need big solutions and large messages. Fathoming the nuances of MC is just mind candy to feed your anxiety.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## still4ever (Aug 28, 2012)

So to those of you who thought that I was the wife of this man, the answer is yes I am his wife & I only started posting bc he suggested it. Sorry if I came off mean
I am still confused as to why the last thread got deleted but per Locke, he wants me to read & post. I am considering starting my own but not sure if I have time. So don't hold back on my account.......


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> Also, Locke you need to stop reading tea leaves. You need big solutions and large messages. Fathoming the nuances of MC is just mind candy to feed your anxiety.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't think I was "reading tea leaves". I was just posting a random thought I had about an observation. I was not really reading it one way or another.

I just thought it was odd that what I saw, and what she said she was trying to do seemed so different.

It's just me posting some randomness. That's how my mind wanders from time to time.

But I agree with you to an extent. There are times when I want something to be so badly that I see what I want to see.

This is just not one of those cases.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

still4ever said:


> So to those of you who thought that I was the wife of this man, the answer is yes I am his wife & I only started posting bc he suggested it. Sorry if I came off mean
> I am still confused as to why the last thread got deleted but per Locke, he wants me to read & post. I am considering starting my own but not sure if I have time. So don't hold back on my account.......


After my W printed out my TAM threads I mentioned that she should post on here. Many of you give helpful advice in dealing with separation.

Most of you have been there, or are there, so it can be very therapeutic to compare notes on the dos and don'ts, what works what doesn't etc...

I sometimes feel like TAM is the AA website for separated couples.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

still4ever said:


> I am considering starting my own but not sure if I have time.


That's what I meant by read and post. Not everyone is going to be as objective as you might like, but most of them are coming from places of pain and don't want to see others get their hopes up.

Oh, and a few of these guys carry "2x4s" (long story) and have the tendency to whack you with them when you do or say something stupid.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

still4ever said:


> So to those of you who thought that I was the wife of this man, the answer is yes I am his wife & I only started posting bc he suggested it. Sorry if I came off mean
> I am still confused as to why the last thread got deleted but per Locke, he wants me to read & post. I am considering starting my own but not sure if I have time. So don't hold back on my account.......


We've all come off "mean" at one time or other.

This is a forum where raw emotion is on 24/7 display.

Yet, it's one of the few places I've found where people speak and listen to the truth without interference.

You are very welcome here.


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> That is what my IC says. It's so hard breaking old habits I guess.
> 
> I think one of the things I am having a hard time with is wanting to make sure I do the right thing for US during this separation so she doesn't look back and think I didn't give a crap.
> 
> I know I need to step back more but I keep falling into old habits and old insecurities.


Hey. I am sorry about the difficulties you are going through. Somethings that I have learned during counselling are as follows:

Indulgent is understandable. Over indulgent is downright ruinous in a relationship. We sometimes treat our partners like infants when a happy marriage is the union of two adults. Over indulge at your peril for you will always keep doing so.

Secondly, it made me feel like 'the man' when I went to apologise to my wife despite me knowing she would be ungracious towards me. This only perpetuated the cycle (emotional punishment for me). There is nothing manly or 'big' about taking away our partners responsibilities. After my wife kept asking for a divorce and I kept begging and promising to be better, I just had to say 'ok' the next time she did so six weeks after my most recent pleading for mercy. We're separated now, but she is talking about changing for me and her only communication via email to me was so much more accepting of her role in the difficulties in our marriage and the need for her to change. 

Lastly, my counsellor once said to me, you're trying to read your future through a broken crystal ball. This is dumb. What's probably dumber, is trying to predict how others will think of you. The fact is (and I will NEVER forget these words) - your life will go on. You will continue on in life and you will be happy IF you choose to irrespective of what anyone thinks about you. Do everything you can to save your marriage knowing that you cannot always control nor predict the outcome.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Stick with that counselor!


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Stick with that counselor!


:iagree:

iBolt, I read your story. I feel for your situation as well. It's not easy going through all this, especially after so much time, blood, sweat and energy went into the relationship.

My IC has told me a lot of the same advice I read here on TAM, so we are obviously in good company (except for that Conrad guy, he is moodier than a woman :awink. 

Some recurring themes that I have encountered here and through IC is focus on improving myself, regardless of the outcome of my marriage, detach as much as I can emotionally for my own sake, and don't push my W.

Just remember, that vows or no vows, people deal with pain in a lot of different ways. And after reading countless separation stories, no matter how similar they may seem, every situation is in fact different. The best advice I can give you is don't try to rationalize the "whys" of your separation or you will most definitely go out of your mind.


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> iBolt, I read your story. I feel for your situation as well. It's not easy going through all this, especially after so much time, blood, sweat and energy went into the relationship.
> 
> ...


Very true and well put. I guess at times like this, a crucial thing to always remember is that none of us are as unique as we really think we are. We all have similar problems. Rarely is anyone alone in this world and knowing that life can be a wonderfully happy place makes all the difference if we choose and decide it to be just that. As my counsellor would often say at the end of our meeting:

"Make a decision, then go and be wonderful"


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Locke, my point about the smallness of the moment being the topic of a post was that you were not creating space for yourself and had instead found anything with which to fill the void of distance. 

And then further, inviting/encouraging your wife to participate here within your sanctum is the very definition of NOT distance. 

Perhaps your wife isn't a monster. I look forward to seeing her separate thread. But I doubt my objectivity and will state that bias upfront. Who knows maybe I'll surprise myself. I do think it's inappropriate for her to be cruising here when you've mutually agreed on space.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Orph,

Locke has to work on being himself with his wife around.

My wife has an account here. She posts and reads.

What Locke's wife really wants in the relationship is for him to be honest. He has be be unafraid to be honest with her.

This can be a step in that direction.

But, he has to have heart and courage.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

C, Locke's message before MC was that he needed to fix himself. The outcome of MC was that he'd been crowding the process. It would likely be great for Locke and his wife for him to have distance and perspective. And that's not something either of them can achieve with her monitoring and providing feedback within this thread. 

I'm aware that J is at times on these boards. I think I may have commented on a thread of hers. Mostly I remember the really uncomfortable public sniping that the two of you engaged in. It's been my experience that the magic of this forum lays in individuals helping individuals. The dynamics between two people are too complicated for a message board. 

I wish you both well. I wish Locke's Nessie well. But I can only offer my thin advice to the OPs in these journal like threads.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> C, Locke's message before MC was that he needed to fix himself. The outcome of MC was that he'd been crowding the process. It would likely be great for Locke and his wife for him to have distance and perspective. And that's not something either of them can achieve with her monitoring and providing feedback within this thread.
> 
> I'm aware that J is at times on these boards. I think I may have commented on a thread of hers. Mostly I remember the really uncomfortable public sniping that the two of you engaged in. It's been my experience that the magic of this forum lays in individuals helping individuals. The dynamics between two people are too complicated for a message board.
> 
> ...


I am completely OK with that. I wouldn't want my W to hijack my thread anyway.

And as far as the space, I am following my W's lead, like so many people have said. When she wants to hang out we do. When she wants to talk, we do. And I still need to stop crowding her when she does want to do things with me. My post the other day was in regards to me being pushy. She invites me to her place, we have a decent time, then I don't want to leave. It makes her not want to hang out. I need to step back in that regard.

I did suggest she start a thread here. Not because I want her to invade my privacy, or take away from the experience of TAM, but just to have a place to let it all out like I have. You guys have helped me more than I can say. You have given me encouragement, you have told me things I needed to hear whether I like it or not, and you all come from a place where you just plain understand.

My W cannot afford IC, and with the similarities between what my IC has told me and the advice you guys have given, I figured this is the next best thing.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Best of luck then to your wife. I hope that she finds dialogue here that gives her some helpful feedback. I think TAM provides wonderful therapeutic value but it isn't a substitute for IC. That's a piece of helpful initiative I'd love to hear about... Even if it means you paying for part of it. 

I wish you both the best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> Best of luck then to your wife. I hope that she finds dialogue here that gives her some helpful feedback. I think TAM provides wonderful therapeutic value but it isn't a substitute for IC. That's a piece of helpful initiative I'd love to hear about... Even if it means you paying for part of it.
> 
> I wish you both the best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you Orphius. Just don't be a stranger. You gave a me a lot of insight in my previous thread, and I have come to value and respect your views and opinions. So keep it coming, even if I don't always agree or like it. Most of the time it's what I need.

Just like Conrad's one-liners. They always sting, but they are almost always helpful and insightful.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Hey Locke, have you and the W been seeing any progress with MC, or is it just a bloodbath of arguing?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Hey Locke, have you and the W been seeing any progress with MC, or is it just a bloodbath of arguing?


It's funny you should ask. I was just about to post about my W and my conversation about our MC.

But first, let me answer your question. It has not been a bloodbath of arguing. But in our case, and the MC seemed surprised by this, we both agree on the majority of our marital issues, so I am sure that helps in our case.
It can be intense though. MC brings out a lot. Some of it is not pleasant. We mostly deal with trying to understand our different perceptions, and sometimes those differences are painful to hear. I will say this though, MC will only work if you let each other talk, and are completely open and honest. If you hold back anything, your MC will not be able to accurately help you.

Mc is a great start, but remember, it is ultimately up to you and/or your W where your relationship ends up.

Which brings me to our conversation about MC this evening. I shared a concern with my W this evening that I am getting the feeling that our MC is giving up on us. He made a comment at our last session that sounded something like "Well I am not sure if you will be scheduling another session with me or not. If so, I will be here, if not good luck."
That seemed like an odd thing for him to say, because I thought we were making some progress.

My W's response was "I don't think he is giving up on us, I think he is giving up on me." I assume she is referring to the fact that she held back some feelings about the OM for the first several sessions, but when she finally did admit how she felt about him the MC jumped down my throat, saying he would have put his foot down a long time ago if he were in my shoes, and especially at MC session 2 when she threw out the ultimatum that I had no choice but to accept her friendship with said OM. He almost took it personally. And since then, he keeps repeating how he cannot help us if we are not open and honest.

Not sure what his dilemma is, but he seems to be taking some aspect of our situation personally. And my W did admit to her feelings for the OM, and I feel like the MC is still stuck on it like I stated in my original thread, Either way, my W and I are going to keep an eye on this in the next session or two and decide if a change is warranted or not.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Did you step in and defend her?


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

It sounds like your communicating a lot more!


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Did you step in and defend her?


No. He kept saying it as a general comment not specifically pointed at either one of us. But I guess my W thinks it was directed at her.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> It sounds like your communicating a lot more!


Yes and no. Tonight she came over to go over the finances again. She pretty much stops by every pay day to make sure I do it right because I am terrible at managing money.

But we are going to spend time together with the kids on Monday.

Baby steps for now.

We are by no means out of the woods, and if I don't learn how to not push this whole thing is just going to go on and on.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> No. He kept saying it as a general comment not specifically pointed at either one of us. But I guess my W thinks it was directed at her.


Next time, don't miss the chance.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Next time, don't miss the chance.


I do plan on coming right out and asking him if he has given up on us. These last two sessions have been odd for his part to say the least.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I do plan on coming right out and asking him if he has given up on us. These last two sessions have been odd for his part to say the least.


Nothing about "us".

Stand up for HER.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Nothing about "us".
> 
> Stand up for HER.


I will do just that.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

How's it going Locke?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> How's it going Locke?


OK I guess. W is sick at work and asked if i could keep the kids tonight. I agreed but told her if she feels better when she gets out of work that i did have plans.

She was not very thrilled about it.

Otherwise things are good.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

It feels like trying to run up a mountain doesn't it?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> It feels like trying to run up a mountain doesn't it?


Most of the time it does.

Things are slowly moving in the right direction for us though. She did apologize for being snappy, and stopped by on her lunch and ate at my place.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm glad your making progress! Keep remembering to observe and listen a lot more then you speak. It's helping me a lot!


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm still around, but I deleted my thread. No one found it or anything, but I just wanted to start over.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I'm still around, but I deleted my thread. No one found it or anything, but I just wanted to start over.


That's one of the reasons I deleted mine. I had dealt with many of the specifics I had posted about and decided to post a new thread that was more general in nature.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Enjoying the day with my kids. My daughter is determined to not let me wash dishes. She wants me to hold her so she can splash in the dishwater. When I put her down she cries the fakest most pathetic cry I have ever heard, and I pick her back up...

I had a short discussion with my son today about going back to mom's place this week. He thinks he doesn't want to go, but I helped him realize that he really misses mommy, and that she loves when he is with her.

He is all happy now. Playing plants vs. zombies on my phone. I kinda bribed him and told him I would have mommy download that game on her phone too.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I just read an article about blame shifting. It's not deep or anything, but it is accurate. I am as guilty as anyone of doing this I suppose. It is something I need to do a better job with for sure. It's easy to pass the buck or change focus when something goes wrong. But at the end of the day, a bad decision is a bad decision, no matter how justified you think it was.

My son made me realize this is something I need to work on actually. Last weekend, while we were staying at my buddies house up north, my son and their daughter got into several arguments/fights.

After the first one, I asked why he thought that was OK. He said "She started it." I told him that it does not matter who started it, that he needed to do the right thing regardless.

After the next fight I punished my son. Once again he said "She started it." I told him just because she did something bad does not mean it is OK for you to do something bad."

Then I looked in a mirror and realized I was just as guilty as my 6 year old. I blame shifted in my marriage so much, and thought it was OK if my W started it. 

If anyone wants to check it out, here is the link:
Blame Shifting | Self Help and Self Growth Article


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Blameshifting is the biggest cause to the destruction of myself and my marriage. I am reading a book called hold on to your N.U.T.S It is really good. It deals with developing a core set of values that you will not compromise on. If you have those values, you don't have to make such a big deal out of everything else and can take responsibility in your life.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> take responsibility in your life.


That is my number 1 goal right now.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Here's something that is helpful. This book points out that if you become the man that you want to be and your W still doesn't want to make the changes needed, or still won't forgive then you will be able to know in your heart that leaving the relationship is the right thing to do.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Now that I don't have a thread, I have to loiter in other people's


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Here's something that is helpful. This book points out that if you become the man that you want to be and your W still doesn't want to make the changes needed, or still won't forgive then you will be able to know in your heart that leaving the relationship is the right thing to do.


Did you ever doubt this?

Yet, so many wish to cut n run before they do the work they need to do... on THEM.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Did you ever doubt this?
> 
> Yet, so many wish to cut n run before they do the work they need to do... on THEM.


Never doubted, but sometimes we feel like giving up. The reality is, were giving up on ourself and sabatoging our own future.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Never doubted, but sometimes we feel like giving up. The reality is, were giving up on ourself and sabatoging our own future.


And so many do not see this.

Those who refuse to learn from the past are free to repeat those same mistakes.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Took my W to the hospital. She has been sick for sometime. I will keep you all posted.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Took my W to the hospital. She has been sick for sometime. I will keep you all posted.


Anxiety?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Anxiety?


She has been sick for some time now. Since before she left me. Lately its been bad. Low appetite, dizziness, nautious stomach, not sleeping etc...

She is always tired too.

Plus there were the 3 blackouts I referenced (maybe on my old thread?).

So far they are just doing some tests.

We are hoping from the best.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> She has been sick for some time now. Since before she left me. Lately its been bad. Low appetite, dizziness, nautious stomach, not sleeping etc...
> 
> She is always tired too.
> 
> ...


It's anxiety.

You guys really have a good shot at it now.

Cool...strong.... supportive.

Not needy.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Well they think she is going to be OK. She is staying with me tonight. Her condition is physical, and they don't want her to be alone tonight.

I won't say any more than that, but I am doing my best to support her.

I'm doing great so far. Haven't mentioned our issues at all. We are watching a movie right now. The kids we excited to see mom come home for the night.

We may end up back at the hospital tomorrow though if things don't get better.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

It's not about you right now. You can show your strength by being quiet and supportive.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Don't even worry about the issues. Force yourself somehow to not even think about them.

Easier said then done though


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Don't even worry about the issues. Force yourself somehow to not even think about them.
> 
> Easier said then done though


Actually it hasn't been hard a all so far. I'm doing great. I think.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

OK W is in bed. I kept myself busy taking advantage of the kids being in bed. Got my house picked up, got coffee ready for tomorrow and laundry almost finished.

My W actually wanted me around her while I was doing my chores so i stopped and rubbed lotion on her feet


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Good morning TAM.

It was a rough night for my W. She didn't sleep well at all so she is still in bed.

If she isn't feeling better today I am taking her to a different hospital.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Brought her breakfast in bed


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

i may see the source of your marital problems. seems you expect your wife to eat eggs with a knife. also, wipe that plate down next time, Casanova.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> i may see the source of your marital problems. seems you expect your wife to eat eggs with a knife. also, wipe that plate down next time, Casanova.


Handing her only a knife.... Lol.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

The fork was in my hand


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

because approaching her with the knife in your hand was too obvious?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> because approaching her with the knife in your hand was too obvious?


Lol you got me on that one.


----------



## still4ever (Aug 28, 2012)

Breakfast was good & way to fulfilling! He did give me a fork & has been doing his best.


----------



## still4ever (Aug 28, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> i may see the source of your marital problems. seems you expect your wife to eat eggs with a knife. also, wipe that plate down next time, Casanova.


That was the first time he has brought me breakfast in bed so something edible was more my concern than a clean plate, and it was very delicious!!!


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I think iI forgot to mention, I am NOT handy in the kitchen at all.

But I am not afraid to try


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I think iI forgot to mention, I am NOT handy in the kitchen at all.
> 
> But I am not afraid to try


Cook with your nose.

When it smells good, it's done.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Wife seems to be feeling much better today.

We are going to have dinner together and hopefully find something fun to do with the kids.

As sad as I am that she will be going home today, I am greatful for the time we had together. I have done a good job not talking about our issues, and i hope this opens the door for more time together.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Wife seems to be feeling much better today.
> 
> We are going to have dinner together and hopefully find something fun to do with the kids.
> 
> As sad as I am that she will be going home today, I am greatful for the time we had together. I have done a good job not talking about our issues, and i hope this opens the door for more time together.


Stay strong Locke. Because sooner or later you are going to realize how great a man you are!

And then you are going to realize that your life will be great with or without her!!!!

And that train of thought will take you far buddy......

HM64


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I miss her already. This really sucks. It was so nice having her home for a couple days. Now I am empty again. Left here empty handed and broken.

I am going to try to focus on the positive of the weekend. I love my wife.

I hope we make some progress soon.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I miss her already. This really sucks. It was so nice having her home for a couple days. Now I am empty again. Left here empty handed and broken.
> 
> I am going to try to focus on the positive of the weekend. I love my wife.
> 
> I hope we make some progress soon.


And I hope you both make progress soon. It is like torture.

For now just focus on the positive.....

HM64


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

I too am making some very surprising progress here. Hang in there. Hope really is an anchor for a wandering soul.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

iBolt said:


> I too am making some very surprising progress here. Hang in there. Hope really is an anchor for a wandering soul.


It's not surprising at all.

When you are on the RIGHT road, patience is a virtue.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I miss her already. This really sucks. It was so nice having her home for a couple days. Now I am empty again. Left here empty handed and broken.
> 
> I am going to try to focus on the positive of the weekend. I love my wife.
> 
> I hope we make some progress soon.


Don't be stupid.

You think she doesn't feel the same way?

Let her miss you.

She does.

Believe it.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Something something distance, repeat. 

The biggest lessons you currently have to learn about your marriage are the ones you can teach yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Not sleeping again. I laid down for a while but the anxiety is intense tonight.

I really just wish things were different. This patience thing is hard.

I am dealing with anger as ell. Oh well. I guess the ride continues...


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Not sleeping again. I laid down for a while but the anxiety is intense tonight.
> 
> I really just wish things were different. This patience thing is hard.
> 
> I am dealing with anger as ell. Oh well. I guess the ride continues...


Of course you are!

Why wouldn't you be angry?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Of course you are!
> 
> Why wouldn't you be angry?


I went all weekend without saying anything about us. Which was a lot easier than I had thought. But I am not OK with not talking about us.

Once and a while is OK but not everytime we see each other.

I did mention a few minor things this evening about boundaries and stuff but she didn't want to talk about it.

It's frustrating to think that every encounter must be on her terms.

OK rant done. I am feeling better now.

It was a good weekend under the circumstances and i just want to focus on that.

And on a side note I still have a really bad feeling about her being sick. She is still having stomach pains and dizziness.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Locke, you are the only person giving her all the power. Have boundaries; don't talk about having boundaries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Not sleeping again. I laid down for a while but the anxiety is intense tonight.
> 
> I really just wish things were different. This patience thing is hard.
> 
> I am dealing with anger as ell. Oh well. I guess the ride continues...


Locke -

I TOTALLY know how you feel. For the first week my wife and I separated (plus she didn't want us to communicate for a month), I felt a lot of anger towards her. I felt abandoned. I felt a lot of negative feelings so much so that I HAD to find ways to stop thinking about her and us. Tough when you have time to yourself.

I however have come to accept that these are normal feelings and it doesn't mean I love her less. Heck, I am angry because I love her. I also had to respect the fact that both of us needed healing. Rushing the process will only leave us with wounds that are not yet ready to be exposed to day to day life. Though she reaches out now here and there, I do not do the fluffy emotional stuff. Neither she nor I are ready for that. All I do is try to give hope and let her know I am not quitting on her, myself and us. 

How long it will go on for - I don't know but for now, I try to be happy with me each day, take the greatest advantage today brings and JUST STAY POSITIVE. If our wives did not love us, we would both have a divorce petition from a court before us now. So, live in the present and hope for the future. Be patient, be happy, be hopeful.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Locke,

When you mention, "Talking about us"... does that mean going over past issues to get agreement/buy-in?

If it does, you need to stop that immediately.

I have found that discussing the past is useful only when engaging in dialogue about boundaries moving forward.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I meant talking about where things are at between us and where it is all going.

I am still just trying to figure out what direction we are truly headed in.

I guess my biggest gripe is that she has no problem telling me what she does not want, but is unable to tell me what she does want.

Or to put it another way, I am tired of her "not having answers." Sometimes I feel like she is stringing me along and i want to know it means something.

Anyhow, that's why I have changed my mindstate to cope with all this. It is amazing how perspectives can change when you stop expecting someone to act better than they are. If you learn to expect disappointment it is less disappointing.

I am over the issue for now though. I was just having a rough night.

On a positive note she invited me to hang oout again tonight. Should I do it or just back off. After all, we did just spend the majority of the weekend together. I don't want to push it.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Here's the strange thing.

She likely doesn't know.

But, she'll know it when she sees it.

So... quietly and strongly take the lead.

That's what she's telling you.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Here's the strange thing.
> 
> She likely doesn't know.
> 
> ...


I know it is a dumb question, but could you answer me in a PM? What types of things should I be doing to take the lead?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I know it is a dumb question, but could you answer me in a PM? What types of things should I be doing to take the lead?


Bring your A game.

Lively witty conversation about interesting topics (that do not include the relationship)

Find your humor again.

Be energetic in projects and activities

Accept her invitation to be together and think of things that will enhance that time together

All the while you're doing these things, don't breathe a word to her that this is what you're focusing on.

Talk less - do more.


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I know it is a dumb question, but could you answer me in a PM? What types of things should I be doing to take the lead?


Might I suggest that you do not broach any subject about the relationship. Keep it light and witty. I know that for me, I really am in two minds about talking at length with my wife about our strained marriage. It will be too easy for the bad and painful memories to resurface but we know we want to be together.

I really do think that her wanting to spend time with you is a good sign. Feed off of those good vibes but not gorge on it as you might be disappointed.

I am sorry that you are in this state of limbo. It must be really tough but I hope you will stay positive, maintain your sanity. Good luck with the hang out.:smthumbup:


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

You might want to read a book like divorce busting. If you and your W are working together, it's time to focus on what works. You will have times to discuss things that are bothering each other, but I would even reccomend having specific times for that. 


The idea is to work towards enjoying your time together and checking the temperature of the relationship constantly won't work.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I will look into that book. Thank you


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Sleepless again...

This is getting old


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I read this somewhere else and it inspired me.

So here is a modified version as it applies to me reflecting on this last weekend with my wife.

I showed her love, got little in return, and I am not mad about it.


----------



## our vision shattered (May 25, 2012)

the sleep will come again, i promise, i took so many things to knock out an elepahant, when it did work i would pop up like a baby at 3:00 am & lay there just thinking, now i sleep like a baby, it'll come back i promise


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Locke, are you taking any medicine?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Locke, are you taking any medicine?


No.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

locke,

what have you done differently since this whole thing began? Not re sleeping, but a general question. taking stock, as it were...


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> locke,
> 
> what have you done differently since this whole thing began? Not re sleeping, but a general question. taking stock, as it were...


Hitting the gym, taking up my guitar again, going for walks, and reading.

Just trying to stay busy for the most part. Trying to beat the anxiety.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> No.


Get some generic benadryl (diphenhydramine). You take 50mg every time you cannot sleep.

Completely safe. Simply an antihistamine.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

what have you been reading and how often are you working out?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> what have you been reading and how often are you working out?


I have been reading several relationship books, including divorce busters and several others. I am at work so i don't know all of them but there are about 4 all together.

On weeks I do not have my kids I hit the gym about 3 to 4 nights for an hour and a half or so. On weeks I have the kids I am stuck at home.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I guess what has me so mixed up is the comment she made last night.

"Don't you think we have spent enough time together in the last few days?"

Really!? I expected her to say something like that. I even told my best friend that Monday night when we talked. I knew it was coming. So it was all too predictable to hear those words last night.

But like I said. I took care of her this weekend for her sake. I didn't expect anything in return. I showed her unconditional love even though she is not returning it. So now she is distancing herself from me again, and I am feeling OK about it. I detach a little more each time she does this. It has become the new normal I guess.

I am not angry, and I am not sad, I am just anxious about the unknown.

Overall I think we are in a better place since this weekend than we were previously, but we will never get to a point of true R as long as she continues believing that this separation is the best course of action.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

How did you answer that question?

I would have either ignored it - or made a joke out of it.

Part of leading her is letting her know you are strong and secure enough that her needy questions don't get to you.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Ah Locke,



> Overall I think we are in a better place since this weekend than we were previously, but we will never get to a point of true R as long as she continues believing that this separation is the best course of action.


That is the crux right there.

At least you know it if you cannot truly understand it.

And you are in a better place with your wife because at least you can see it.

HM64


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> How did you answer that question?


I said "I knew you were going to say that." 

I don't know. I am so used to her being disappointing anymore I am becoming numb to it.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

So back to my thread, I am all sorts of confused.

My W doesn't want me to leave but thinks I should run?

That is so messed up. She wants her cake and she wants to eat it too.

Maybe I should run.

But I don't want to. It is ridiculous to think that I am still here after how she has treated me and she wants me to run.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> So back to my thread, I am all sorts of confused.
> 
> My W doesn't want me to leave but thinks I should run?
> 
> ...


Think about how your right brain "made you" want to respond to that stuff.

When you lead with strength, you don't take that bait.

That's why you got the lumber.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Well that did it.

My W is cancelling g MC tomorrow.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Well that did it.
> 
> My W is cancelling g MC tomorrow.


Because you answered her post, right?

Do you see the dynamic now?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Because you answered her post, right?
> 
> Do you see the dynamic now?


I think it was what I posted on mine. She called and said

"You have some nerve. Don't worry about watching the kids in the morning and I am cancelling MC tomorrow."

Then she hung up.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> So back to my thread, I am all sorts of confused.
> 
> My W doesn't want me to leave but thinks I should run?
> 
> ...


Does this sound like victimspeak to you?


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

Has your MC totally given up on you? Might you be able to find another? Would she attend?

You are in a rather tough position. You expect something and you get disappointed. She probably is wanting something but maybe is afraid. The state of limbo you both are in and the uncertainty may end up causing so much resentment and anger that things become much more difficult.

I will also suggest that if the situation is clearly disturbing your sleep and sanity, grind your teeth and limit contact so you can work on yourself, shore up your emotional state a little bit more and give her space. Resentment and pent up frustrations are real possibilities that could cause more problems.

I don't know how long you/your wife can continue this way. I have now become a fan of both you guys. Love should not go to waste like this. I'll be praying for you both and your family. I really hope you're both able to successfully make it through this difficult time - together.

Stay well bro


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Does this sound like victimspeak to you?


Yes it does. I know I know...


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Yes it does. I know I know...


That sounds like dawn starting to break....

Don't be too hard on yourself.

You spent many years learning the other way.

Give yourself a little time.

(I'll give a guess how many times my wife cancelled counseling)


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That sounds like dawn starting to break....
> 
> Don't be too hard on yourself.
> 
> ...


Conrad, we haven't had an update from our counselor in a while. Are you making any positive progress lately?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Conrad, we haven't had an update from our counselor in a while. Are you making any positive progress lately?


Yes.

But, I don't want to jinx it more than anyone else.

What I write here is what I do.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Locke, i'm not sure exactly what i was fishing for before. only that i had an uneasy feeling that you were skirting around the edges and that your dialogue was predicated on her. That is essentially the "issue" that was the topic of MC for you last week. Distancing was the next step forward except that it got derailed by mystery ailment.

If your wife is canceling your MC predicated on your comments in this thread then she's continuing to violate your sanctum and not work towards but in seeking to be in control, with privileged information.

Not knowing your wife really and or what she is or isn't dealing with, my biggest concern at the moment is you. You are your biggest victim. You set yourself up on Monday with your friend about how your wife was going to yank you around on Tuesday. On Tuesday you give her the opportunity to fulfill that and then don't follow through and use it as a healing moment. Whatever this fit is today is just additional control.

You've got to start talking about you more than your wife. She isn't your solution.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> Locke, i'm not sure exactly what i was fishing for before. only that i had an uneasy feeling that you were skirting around the edges and that your dialogue was predicated on her. That is essentially the "issue" that was the topic of MC for you last week. Distancing was the next step forward except that it got derailed by mystery ailment.
> 
> If your wife is canceling your MC predicated on your comments in this thread then she's continuing to violate your sanctum and not work towards but in seeking to be in control, with privileged information.
> 
> ...


I understand. And thank you.

I posted on her thread a correction that i shouldnt have. She said she was looking for someone to help her sort out how she feels not me to correct her.

Old habbits die hard I guess.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I understand. And thank you.
> 
> I posted on her thread a correction that i shouldnt have. She said she was looking for someone to help her sort out how she feels not me to correct her.
> 
> Old habbits die hard I guess.


Locke

You so play into her hands it is really pathetic.

Ignore her. Work on you. Focus your efforts on you.

I guarantee you, that you will be happier, more independent in a short time. And yes, happier without her because you do not need your wife to be happy......


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Anyone know any good tips for dealing with anxiety? Or maybe a good book?


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

The best thing you can do is to try and not dwell on this every minute of the day. Force yourself to get engulfed in something else. When things take days, months, or even years to heal you can't focus on the minute by minute details.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Exercise is the quickest fix though.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Lately it seems to always hit me around bedtime then I can't sleep. I was doing great for about a week then it started up again.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Sleeping pills work for that.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Anyone know any good tips for dealing with anxiety? Or maybe a good book?


Yoga, and slow breathing techniques work really well for me...

Intense exercise when I am extremely anxious doesn't work as well as the relaxation techniques.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Yoga, and slow breathing techniques work really well for me...
> 
> Intense exercise when I am extremely anxious doesn't work as well as the relaxation techniques.


I must be more tired than I thought because I almost asked how Yoda was going to help me relax


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I must be more tired than I thought because I almost asked how Yoda was going to help me relax


...may the force be with you LMAO


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

So here is a summary update of things

My W and i have been spending more time togehter the last few weeks in case anyone hadn't noticed.

It is nice that we are spending time together but we are still moving at a snail's pace as far as R is concerned.

She is still so unsure what she wants. One minute she is hugging me and loving me, the next she is saying we won't work out and i should run away.

So let me tell you where I am at personally. Emotionally I am doing very good under the circumstances. I have come a long way in accepting the circumstances I now live in. I still miss my W very much, and still can't shake the empty feeling, but I am doing OK. What once was a daily melt down for me is now relegated to maybe one or two rough days a week. The biggest thing I am still working through is the anxiety around bedtime that i mentioned before.

For the record I am still not OK with this separation. I still want my W back. Of these things I am certain.

But regardless of how this turns out life goes on.

Next week is my last week of IC for a while. My IC will no longer be available in the evenings when i am free until about November and i don't feel like starting from square 1 with a new counselor. He will still be available to respond to my emails but our actual sessions are done for a while.

But I am OK with that. I still have TAM and i still have my friends and sister that i can get on the phone anytime I am having a bad day.

I am still determined to do whatever I can to be back with my W, and i know I will make a few more mistakes along the way, but I am strong enough to do this.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Is your IC available in the MC time slot your wife cancelled? You "don't feel" like starting over with a new therapist?

Meditation and exercise are great ways of burning away energy, as already mentioned. I'm reading a book that talks about anxiety not being a real feeling and rather a mask we use for not truly expressing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> Is your IC available in the MC time slot your wife cancelled? You "don't feel" like starting over with a new therapist?
> 
> Meditation and exercise are great ways of burning away energy, as already mentioned. I'm reading a book that talks about anxiety not being a real feeling and rather a mask we use for not truly expressing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My W changed her mind aabout cancelling MC. And no, my IC has no openings past 6pm


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> My W changed her mind aabout cancelling MC.


that's very good news!


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Small update. W is still sick, and it is not getting better. She mentioned the possibility of going back to the hospital if this continues.

Luckily I have the kids this week, so that much is taken care of at least.

My W mentioned at MC that she does not want me to take care of her because she does not want to be like her mother (hypochondriac) who plays sick for attention from my W's dad.

She also said that she is afraid that my willingness to help is only temporary and that she is afraid I will somehow use this against her in the future.

I am not exactly sure how to take all that. I am pretty hurt that she has so much deep anger towards me that she thinks I would be that cruel. I legitimately want to help her. If she keeps pushing herself, she is really going to end up in a world of hurt, and end up missing work, and missing out on time with our kids.

Anyhow, she is pushing me away pretty hard. The MC mentioned that I seem sincere in my desire to help my W, and encouraged her to see it that way, but my W is very stubborn.

I am hurt and angry today, but I will be OK. Though I know that what my W thinks about me is not true (because only I can truly know what I am thinking and what my intentions are), I also recognize that she is too blind to see it and there is nothing I can do about that.

In other news, I had some unexpected company. My best friend's mom is in a hospital not far from me. He and his sister showed up just as MC was done because they needed to stay close by their mom, and the three of us went to pick another sister up from the airport. Needless to say, we stayed up too late, but it was a welcome distraction even if the circumstances were less than ideal.

It was a nice change of pace for me to comfort my friend for once, when he has been there so much for me these last 2-3 months. We had some good laughs and it was just nice being around people who know how to genuinely care for others without asking for anything in return.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good update Locke. You wanted some company. And now you have it.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Good update Locke. You wanted some company. And now you have it.


He is gone home today. But due to his mom still being in the ICU there is a strong possibility that he may come back down tomorrow with his W and daughter.

But yes. I wish circumstances were better for him but I welcomed the distraction last night.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

W dropped me off some groceries for the kids last night. But she didn't really talk to me. Just set them on the porch and ran out of here like a bat out of hell. She is really distancing herslef.

I don't like it, but what choice is she giving me?

None.

Spending the day being lazy with the kids. My daughter is all sorts of cuddly cute today. Makes me smile


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

People that have bad childhoods will often attempt to hurt you before you can hurt them.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> People that have bad childhoods will often attempt to hurt you before you can hurt them.


That's what she is doing for sure. And she doesn't care.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> That's what she is doing for sure. And she doesn't care.


It's how she's wired.


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I don't like it, but what choice is she giving me?


don't particularly want to sound like a broken record, but what choice are you giving yourself? wish you would be in your own corner.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

She is so distant that's all. It hurts to see the emptiness in her. The coldness. It is like she is incapable of loving others. I haven't seen any positive emotions from her in the last few days.

I am not sure why she is pushing me away again but I do not like it.

It is the anxiety that has got the best of me today I guess. It stemmed from a dream I had last night and i can't get it out of my head.

I will be fine. I just need to find something to do to stay busy.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Went to the hospital to see my friend and his mother. Guess who went with me? Yep, my W.

Anyhow long story short, on our way back home my W was driving and got very dizzy. So i drove the rest of the way. Upon dropping her off at home she could barely walk up her stairs. She is in bad shape. This pain she has is spreading badly. And what's worse is that she pretends it is no big deal.

Have you ever seen a loved one hurting and wished you could help them but couldn't? Yeah I feel pretty helpless right now.

And due to our separation I am not sure how much to be there for her. I don't want to get too close because i strongly feel like that is the reason she is pushing me away again, but I don't want to sit by and do nothing either.

I kept the kids again tonight because it is about the only way I know to help her under the circumstances.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Let her ask


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Conrad's right.

And all you can do right now is all she will let you do.

Good move keeping the kids.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Let her ask


She did ask.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Good move keeping the kids.


I am just trying to help.

On a positive note she invited me to go to church with her today. So that's a plus.

We may also take our kids in a family outing of some kind. I will keep you guys posted.


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I am just trying to help.
> 
> On a positive note she invited me to go to church with her today. So that's a plus.
> 
> We may also take our kids in a family outing of some kind. I will keep you guys posted.


Praying for more positives for you. I admire your seeming indefatigability. Your wife is a very lucky woman.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Thank you iBolt. Now if only she could see it...

Anyhow small update for the day. Went to church with the W. She feels like crap so she came home with me and slept on the couch. I just got back from taking her home.

Word of the day: distant


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Interesting thing I learned today.

On Saturday when we visited my best friend and his mom at the hospital my W apparently told him at some point that she thinks we are done. But she said that she thinks fate will one day bring us back together.

When he asked her why she thought we were done her response was "because he is always a ****."

Interesting but not surprising.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Interesting thing I learned today.
> 
> On Saturday when we visited my best friend and his mom at the hospital my W apparently told him at some point that she thinks we are done. But she said that she thinks fate will one day bring us back together.
> 
> ...


Plan B.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Fate = a 4 letter word for shirking responsibility for the present.


----------



## pseudonym (Aug 19, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> she thinks we are done. But she said that she thinks fate will one day bring us back together.


You know, my W said something similar when we started our separation... That she could foresee us getting back together in a couple of years or something... It stuck in my head for a while but now I can see that it is just breadcrumbs.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

pseudonym said:


> You know, my W said something similar when we started our separation... That she could foresee us getting back together in a couple of years or something... It stuck in my head for a while but now I can see that it is just breadcrumbs.


:iagree:

That's all it is breadcrumbs.

What I hope for you Pseudo and Locke is that you find someone that is awesome and has great self esteem. Because that type does not play these horrible games with your hearts and families.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

W is staying at my house again. She is in rough shape medically speaking. We are still waiting for more results but the ones we have so far have not been good.

I don't know how this will affect our R efforts, but for now most of that will have to be put on hold.

Trying to be strong and do all the right things. I could use some advice though. JD you recently had some experience in this. Any tips?


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Take care of her how she wants to be taken care of. I didn't know so I asked. My W didn't want to be constantly bugged. I'm sure anyone would feel that way I would check in on her and then give her space. One thing my W said is that I truely put my feelings aside and was very unselfish. It made me very proud of myself

I feel like your focusing on R to much. She knows that's what you want. Use your confidence and what you have learned to just be yourself and use actions instead of words.

Try to finish the rest of the week not talking to your W about the relationship at all. Simply love her and show kindness and empathy to her in her time of need. If she pushes back and becomes distant to you simply withdraw yourself from the situation without any talk. Not even an I'm not ok with that. Walk away and let that be your words. 

That's all I've got for today.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

:iagree:

JD is right lay off the R for awhile.

Here is another tip though.
when she finally falls asleep, sneak up to her and part her hair. Try to identify the hole in her head so you can show it to her Doctor.

Other than that all you can do is care about her.

We all know how much you do.......

Patience.


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

I hope you are doing Ok Locke. Good vibes to you from this part of Her Majesty's realm  chin up bud


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Update,

W is still here at home. She is going for more testing in the morning. I took the day off to take care of her. She is doing a little better but I fear she is not out of the woods yet.

I took your guys' advice. I am doing my best to not focus on our relationship. I am just trying to love and take care of her the best I can.

And since i am not always sure how to help I ask her if there is anything she needs a lot. I don't want to crowd and i want to follow her lead on the best way to help her.

Say a prayer for my W please.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Update,
> 
> W is still here at home. She is going for more testing in the morning. I took the day off to take care of her. She is doing a little better but I fear she is not out of the woods yet.
> 
> ...


Will do.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Update,
> 
> W is still here at home. She is going for more testing in the morning. I took the day off to take care of her. She is doing a little better but I fear she is not out of the woods yet.
> 
> ...


Will be praying.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

This is tough. Not only to see my wife go through such a hard time, but also for me to fight 8 years of habbit.

I really want to just talk to her about us. I really haven't much though as I know this is about her recovery, but it is not easy.

I guess what I wish she could see is that i am caring for her because I love her. I am not doing this out of obligation or blind devotion, but because I love her and i want to help her in any way I can.

I fear that is just wishful thinking. When this is all over she will most likely go back to her separate life and i will be left here alone with a broken heart and more questions than answers.

Well either way, I made a commitment to be there for my wife during times of sickness and health, and i intend to uphold that promise I made to her.

It's just tough being her husband but pretending I am not.

Thanks for letting me vent everyone.

Good night.


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> This is tough. Not only to see my wife go through such a hard time, but also for me to fight 8 years of habbit.
> 
> I really want to just talk to her about us. I really haven't much though as I know this is about her recovery, but it is not easy.
> 
> ...


Locke 

You know it is ok to vent. The gym has been my safe harbour so I know the importance to get stuff off your chest.

It is darn tough. I do get the feeling though that you're putting everything into this and the disappointment in feedback is killing your spirit. You're amazing in what you're doing in the face of so much rejection and disappointment. I totally feel for you. You're in my prayers. I hope your kids are doing well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Locke,
It is difficult to break old habbits, but you will get more accomplished by being there for her and not talking about things. She will see it. Keep up the good work!


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Locke,

Don't breathe a word of it.

If you do, her brain will interpret what you are saying as "giving to get"


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Locke,
> 
> Don't breathe a word of it.
> 
> If you do, her brain will interpret what you are saying as "giving to get"


That and all you care about is yourself. I would even delete your above comment knowing she cruises your thread


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah I am not going to delete it. I just needed to get it off my chest. I am doing pretty good about not talking about our relationship issues while my W recovers.

I was just venting last night.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Oh, and i put the anxiety to god use. Got a few loads of laundry done and got my dishes washed


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Oh, and i put the anxiety to god use. Got a few loads of laundry done and got my dishes washed


:rofl: A man can stop being a bachelor, but you cannot take the bachelor out of him..

PS: How long have the dishes been there?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

iBolt said:


> :rofl: A man can stop being a bachelor, but you cannot take the bachelor out of him..
> 
> PS: How long have the dishes been there?


I have done dishes every day this week


----------



## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

Dang it Locke. That's a lot of anxiety.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter (Aug 25, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> It's just tough being her husband but pretending I am not.


How are you pretending not to be her husband--was the topic of "us" a common topic before she moved out?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

No but being able to talk about our problems was common.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> No but being able to talk about our problems was common.


Why not tell us about them?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

OK.

Lack of ongoing communication, blame shifting, not acknowledging the seriousness of the OM situation, ignoring her mistakes while putting mine in the spotlight

Etc...

But more than all that BS, is my W misinterpreting things I have done and said in the past. Then she holds whatever it was against me.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> OK.
> 
> Lack of ongoing communication, blame shifting, not acknowledging the seriousness of the OM situation, ignoring her mistakes while putting mine in the spotlight
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I could have written that. Even the OM. My only difference is that it was different (they are just friends that had to work together for 2 years 8 hours a day)


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> OK.
> 
> Lack of ongoing communication, blame shifting, not acknowledging the seriousness of the OM situation, ignoring her mistakes while putting mine in the spotlight
> 
> ...


What is it you hope to accomplish by bringing these things up to her?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> What is it you hope to accomplish by bringing these things up to her?


Nothing actually.

Anyhow, I need to be patient. Most of this stuff is being discussed at MC anyway.

It is just tough to keep the lips shut when she is sitting right here.

I guess I just dont want her to leave again.

I'm going good though. Only mentioned a couple of small things. I am staying focussed on her recovery and work.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Conrad's Golden Rule...

If it accomplishes nothing, don't do it.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

She is still here. Her pain is more manageable now. She told me today that she is able to go home now, but she hasn't left yet. As a matter of fact she pointed out that she didn't want to go. But we haven't really talked about getting back together either.

I am not sure what to make of this. Is this a good sign that she is choosing to stay?

I am glad she is here regardless, but I am afraid I will push too much with this possible good sign. What does it mean?

I am scared.


----------



## forumman83 (Aug 12, 2012)

You are scared because she is using you. 

You are in a position of weakness. 

What are you doing to strengthen YOURSELF?


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter (Aug 25, 2012)

forumman83 said:


> You are scared because she is using you.
> 
> You are in a position of weakness.
> 
> What are you doing to strengthen YOURSELF?


I don't agree. She sounds very sick, and she also sounds scared (they don't have a diagnosis for her illness yet).

Locke, I hope you can maintain your patience. She commented a while back that your usual treatment when she was ill was not so nice--this is a great opportunity to challenge yourself in patience while she's ill, while proving to her that you are changing for the better.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Locke

Do not be scared.

Be happy that she wants to be there.

If you are happy that she is still there then keep doing what you have been doing these past few days.

And enjoy the time together for just what it is, time spent together.

HM64


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> She is still here. Her pain is more manageable now. She told me today that she is able to go home now, but she hasn't left yet. As a matter of fact she pointed out that she didn't want to go. But we haven't really talked about getting back together either.
> 
> I am not sure what to make of this. Is this a good sign that she is choosing to stay?
> 
> ...


People vote with their feet.

If she doesn't want to leave, and you don't want her to leave, she shouldn't.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

She is staying here another night. Got some running to do and a doctor appointment tomorrow.

She is starting to feel a little better so that's some good news. We had a small argument last night but nothing too serious.

I am trying to remain strong and objective.


----------



## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

Locke, sorry for coming to the party so late, but is your wife bipolar? I am not practicing medicine over the internet, but just curious.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You really want him to answer that?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Wife is here another night. I am starting to think this is a good thing.

But I am still taking it

One. Day. At. A. Time.

Keep me in your prayers please.


----------



## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

Conrad,

Yes. If there has been a clinical diagnosis. I am not looking for his speculation. Nor am I looking for him to step on a landmine. If she has been diagnosed, then I respectfully suggest they seek another mental health professional for improved care.

If she has not been diagnosed, her actions as he describes, plus her thread, presents enough to at least warrant exploration.


----------



## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

Having treated enough bipolars in my career, I sadly realize that she will not seek treatment on her own.

I doubt if he could influence her now, but perhaps there is a parent or a sibling that could intervene should she present strongly enough to warrant.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Doc Who said:


> Having treated enough bipolars in my career, I sadly realize that she will not seek treatment on her own.
> 
> I doubt if he could influence her now, but perhaps there is a parent or a sibling that could intervene should she present strongly enough to warrant.


That makes sense.

If he were to bring such a thing up with her, he'd have to buckle his chinstrap extra tight.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I am not going to speculate openly about that. My goal here is to focus on making me stronger.

I am trying to improve myself and hopefully that will lead to improvements in my marriage.
If it doesn't, at least I am a better person than I started out as.

As you can tell I have a lot of things on my plate at the moment. My W has been with me for the past week recovering from some horrible medical issues, and I have been doing my best to help her and care for her.

I have not had much time to think about my emotional and mental well being lately but I think I am doing fine. I am also starting to see baby steps in regards to progress in our relationship. My W has been a lot less cold since she got sick. I do not see the same emptiness in her eyes when she looks at me.

She has been holding my hand and my arm when we go into public. And most importantly our communication is improving.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Actually I think I will address the bipolar issue directly.

Bipolar and other similar disorders run in my W's family big time. It has been a long time fear of hers that she too would end up with it. She has seen several specialists since we have been married and they all ruled out bipolar.

As easy as it would be to pin this whole separation on such a thing, it's just not the case.

My W has been checked for bipolar because she asked to be checked but she was always told she does not have it.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Locke,

RDJ put it best - and I steal this from him.

My wife and I both realize she has her issues. How she chooses to deal with them is entirely up to her.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Well my W went back to her place last night.

I kept the kids for her since she is still not well enough to carry my daughter up the stairs of her apartment.

She mentioned yesterday that the only thing holding her back from coming back to me permanantly is where I live because OM lives across the street. Well I don't have the money to move given our situation so I mentioned putting my stuff in storage and moving in with her. She said she is not ready for that. 

I am so confused by that.

Anyhow I think we are making progress but it is hard to tell. She doesn't really come out and say anything clearly or directly so I don't know what to think most of the time.

I guess it is back to the status quo.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Good job on calling her bluff.

She never expected that.

She won't run some b.s. like that again.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Good job on calling her bluff.
> 
> She never expected that.
> 
> She won't run some b.s. like that again.


OK I am confused. What do you mean by me calling her bluff?


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> OK I am confused. What do you mean by me calling her bluff?


Rather than expressing her true intentions, she used the location of your home as her excuse for continuing to live separately.

You proposed a reasonable alternative that would put the two of you back under the same roof.

She then had to show you her hand.

Talk is cheap.

Actions speak louder than words.

Keep observing.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

spun said:


> Rather than expressing her true intentions, she used the location of your home as her excuse for continuing to live separately.
> 
> You proposed a reasonable alternative that would put the two of you back under the same roof.
> 
> ...


spun,

You're getting the hang of this.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> spun,
> 
> You're getting the hang of this.


Now if I could only apply it to my life


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

spun said:


> Now if I could only apply it to my life


The best way to learn this is to teach it.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Conrad said:


> The best way to learn this is to teach it.


Spoken like a true Master.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

She is back home tonight. She was hurting badly enough to text me saying I may have to take her to the ER. I insisted she come home with me. She reluctantly agreed.

She isn't doing anyone any favors if she doesn't get healthy soon. I think two days back at work is making things worse for her.

And she has hardly been able to spend time with the kids these past 3 weeks, and my son is starting to act out.

He threw a huge fit when we arrived at my W's apartment. He thought he was staying there and started yelling and crying because he didn't want to stay. His attitude got better when I told him we were picking mom up.

My kids need their mom to be healthy. Period.

Please pray for her.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Consider it done.

I'll pray for you too.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I got clarification on her not wanting me moving in to her place.

She is unwilling to give up her "safe place". She said she is not ready to give up her own space where she can get away if she needs to.

I guess I can respect that but I do not agree with it. That type of thinking is counter-productive to reconciliation.

I guess I am still in the same place personally. As long as I see her trying and improving, I will continue to try as well.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Did you bring it up?


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I got clarification on her not wanting me moving in to her place.
> 
> She is unwilling to give up her "safe place". She said she is not ready to give up her own space where she can get away if she needs to.
> 
> ...


And what's wrong with her saying I'm not ok with you here Locke, it's time for you to leave?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

spun said:


> And what's wrong with her saying I'm not ok with you here Locke, it's time for you to leave?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing is wrong with that. But if you read one of my earlier posts from a few days ago the confusion on my part lies in the comment she made Monday: "the only reason I am not moving back in with you permanantly is because you still live across the street from the neighbor guy."

When I suggested that I move in with her until we can find a different house she said no.

So my initial confusion was because she is ready to live together just not at her apartment.

Now it makes sense.

My only remaining question is what is she still afraid of?


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Nothing is wrong with that. But if you read one of my earlier posts from a few days ago the confusion on my part lies in the comment she made Monday: "the only reason I am not moving back in with you permanantly is because you still live across the street from the neighbor guy."
> 
> When I suggested that I move in with her until we can find a different house she said no.
> 
> ...


And that Locke is the 1 Million $$$ question that your wife never seems to answer.

And how convenient that she would like to be together but not at her "safe" place, nor at your house because Dufus lives across the street.

You have an incredible capacity for not giving up.

I am writing a letter for you to the Pope asking for a canonization for you........

But seriously stay strong and I hope you can endure "HER"!


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She's afraid of being hurt.

So, she decides to hurt "first".


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She's afraid of being hurt.
> 
> So, she decides to hurt "first".


Sort of like a shark attack, bite first & taste later.

How many bites can you take Locke?


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Do you really want to be in a relationship with somebody that tells you ad infinitum that they are going to wait until you validate some unknown condition of theirs before they can become your partner?

it's rhetorical. i know what your answer is and what you're going to do because it's what you've always done/do, Locke. the point is that since you've been here you're wife has refused to sit down no matter how much you fluff the pillow up for her.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Having a rough time today.

My W came over to my house to meet with the Foster Care licence worker. It was time to renew our license and have a home inspection and until we are divorced or reconciled we have to be on the same license but they cannot place any kids with us until this mess is sorted out.

I really don't understand why we even got licensed to begin with if she thinks our marriage has been in shambles for so long. We got our license finalized in April only a month or so after her first attempt to leave.

I don't get it.

Then she has me worried sick to top it off. Today is the anniversary of one of the worst things to ever happen to my W. When the event first occurred she pushed me away and said I wasn't there for her, even though I didn't have a choice since she made me leave our home. That is when the EA with the neighbor began.

Today she is really dwelling on it and depressed, and it has me honostly worried. She seems depressed in a way I have almost never seen her. I am actually nervous she may do something to hurt herself, and there is nothing I can do about it. When she told me what was bothering her I told her she doesn't have to go through this painful memory alone, but she said it is too late for that.

I guess some things never change. I had no choice two years ago, and i have no choice now. She is determined to deal with this on her own, and it frustrates me because this was the turning point at which our marriage slowly started falling apart. 

And she thinks it is my fault...

No one is strong enough to handle a memory like that without help. The trauma changed her for the worse. And it hurts me to think of the pain she carries because of the incident and to know she thinks I wasn't there for her.

I don't understand this...


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

What are you "Ok" with?

What are you "not ok" with?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I am not OK with how my W misrepresents me to people. She makes people feel so sorry for her and makes me out to be a monster.

She talks bad about me to people around town, and then when it gets back to me she denies it. I am not OK with that.

I have owned my mistakes, I have been genuinely sorry, and have always turned away from them, but she still wants to blame me for all her pain and her decision to leave.

She acknowledges some of her mistakes, but I have never seen genuine remorse in her acknowledgement.
And then there is a list of mistakes she chooses to deny and turns everything around to be my fault.

It's all a mess. And then I see what she is saying about me on her thread, and it breaks my heart. It hurts that she sees me as some horrible person barely fit to be in the same room as her.

And to have my intentions questioned bothers me to the core. I have been there for my W through so many things, but STILL she focuses on the times when I wasn't there for her.

My family is torn apart and my kids are experiencing something we never wanted them to because my W never sorts out her problems and sandbags everything.

And to clear up a detail, yes I cheated on my W about 8 years ago. She left me for a short time and her dad said it was over so I reached out to the wrong person in the wrong way. I have apologized 1000 times. Had I known her parents forced her to leave I would like to think I would have made a better decision. But I was young and stupid, and we were newly married and I messed up.

But to hear my W tell me so many times she forgives me for that mistake only to have her bring it back up as one of her many justifications for leaving is just plain dishonest.

I am hurting so much right now I am sick.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I wish I had words to help locke. Just hang in there and take care of yourself the best you can. Do what you know in your heart is right and that's all you can do.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I wish I had words to help locke. Just hang in there and take care of yourself the best you can. Do what you know in your heart is right and that's all you can do.


My heart is so broken and messed up I don't know what is best anymore.

I can tell you one thing that worries me a lot. It is who I am going to be when this is all said and done.

I am still working on improving myself, but as far as people and relationships are concerned, my belief system is not in good shape. I am having a hard time trusting anyone, and I am starting to think that the idea of true love is a bunch of crap.

If you can't trust your spouse and best friend of 8 years, who are you supposed to trust?

I can't trust anyone. Right now I don't trust anyone, especially the people I should be able to trust the most. For the first time in my life I feel completely alone.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> My heart is so broken and messed up I don't know what is best anymore.
> 
> I can tell you one thing that worries me a lot. It is who I am going to be when this is all said and done.
> 
> ...


You are not alone Locke. Many of us have been where you are now.

And I know you worry about your wife. But when she moved out she really took that responsibility away from you.

Patience Locke.

There are good people out there. There are good women out there. The key is to use this time to grow as a person. Heal your wounds and be strong for the next stage of your life.

Whatever that stage turns out to be.......

HM64


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Well it has been a bumpy couple of days.

Saturday was my W's birthday. I had asked her if I could take her on a date but she flatly turned me down. Then she invited me to join her and the kids for dinner. We had an OK time.

The odd thing is that after dinner she said she was disappointed that I hadn't planned to go out after dinner. I was confused by this since she had turned me down for a date. Her response to my confusion was "Why do you think I didn't make plans with anyone else. It's because I wanted you to plan something but you didn't."

:scratchhead:

So I called up a babysitter last minute and told my W to get dressed because I was taking her dancing. She said give her a few minutes for her to get ready. 10 minutes later she called me and sounded clearly upset and told me she can't go. When I asked her what was wrong she wouldn't tell me.

So I went over to her place and when I knocked on the door she was very upset. She started crying and hugged me. She kept saying she was sorry and I just held her. I told her she has nothing to be sorry about.

I know she still has a lot to work through, and I know it is going to take more time than either of us would like. It pains me to see her hurting like that, but I must admit it also made me feel a little relieved. I guess it just made me realize that she does care and that this separation has been hard on her too. Until Saturday she refused to show me almost any emotion, even when I am hurting in front of her. It always made the pain worse for me to look into her stone cold and emotionless face.

Sunday was a decent day overall. We went to the Renaissance Festival with our children for the day. We saw a lot of neat things and did a lot of walking around, but it was so nice to do something like that as a family. I miss these times so much.

When I am with my kids I am always happy, but since my W left there has always been this hole that I can't seem to fill with anything. It takes some of the enjoyment out of everything we do no matter how much I am enjoying the time with my kids. To be honest the Renaissance Festival was overly crowded and at times stressful, but I didn't care. My W was there and that hole was no longer present.

We didn't talk much about Saturday, or our separation in general for that matter, but I didn't care. At least we were talking, and my W even laughed a few times which made me feel happy.

We did have one small and interesting conversation about us on the way home. The other day she sent me a youtube link to a song. The song was about a woman trying to decide if she was going to come home to her husband, but she was afraid he would reject her. I asked my W why she sent it to me, and she said "Because I still think you are just waiting to tell me no if I ask you to come home." My W has shared this fear with me before, and just like last time I told her that this was not what I plan to do at all. I really wish I knew how to help her overcome this fear, but I am all out of ideas. Anyone have any?

I know a lot of you think I am focusing too much on her and possibly at my own expense but I don't care. I love my W and I want her in my life. Period. If I am setting myself up for pain and failure, so be it. I can't imagine the pain getting any worse than what I have already experienced the last 3½ months anyway. It makes me feel good to be around her no matter how much pain she has caused me.

I am resolved to do whatever I can to bring my W home and to make our marriage better than it was before she left. She has already eliminated my biggest problem with her as it is, so all there is left to do is for each of us continuing to make improvements and rebuild our relationship and trust. I am committed to this marriage, now it is up to her to decide if she is too.


----------



## forumman83 (Aug 12, 2012)

Lockie, I am not suggesting that this is the case but have you ever thought that your wife suffered from signs of bipolar personality disorder?

Like I said I'm not suggesting she does just wondering if you ever looked into it.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She is either bipolar personality or has dissasociative disorder. Something isn't right with this gal. She needs a psych workup done on her pronto.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

She needs to see a doctor.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

The thing is she has seen a doctor and they always tell her she is fine.

So that puts us at a loss in that department. It would almost explain a lot if she had a disorder to point a finger at but it is just not the case.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> The thing is she has seen a doctor and they always tell her she is fine.
> 
> So that puts us at a loss in that department. It would almost explain a lot if she had a disorder to point a finger at but it is just not the case.


If she can't own the fact that she turned it down then why bother making it a big deal?

It's almost like trying to cause problems for the sake of "keeping you in check".


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> She needs to see a doctor.


She has seen a doctor. She does not have a disorder of any kind. We even discussed things such as antidepressants with our MC and he does not think they are needed.

What the issue in our marriage is right now is perception. She percieves my actions and motives totally differently than I intend based on her past experience with me.
I just have to be persistent in showing her my true intentions.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Locke,

What I hear you saying is "let's take the principles that have brought her to the table and throw them away and act needy again"


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> If she can't own the fact that she turned it down then why bother making it a big deal?


According to her thread she did own it. She is all kinds of confused. I make it a big deal because her confusion hurts even though that is not what she intends.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> According to her thread she did own it. She is all kinds of confused. I make it a big deal because her confusion hurts even though that is not what she intends.


Are you trying to convince her?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Are you trying to convince her?


No. Just pointing out that she is well aware of her own confusion according to her thread.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> No. Just pointing out that she is well aware of her own confusion according to her thread.


If she is so aware then why did this happen?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> No. Just pointing out that she is well aware of her own confusion according to her thread.


But she still blames you - without fail - for everything.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Locke,
> 
> What I hear you saying is "let's take the principles that have brought her to the table and throw them away and act needy again"


I am not trying to do that at all. I am hoping she can work through the confusion so we can get on track with fixing our marriage.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh Locke,

You are right about your wifes confusion. So she does not have a disorder.

But I will tell you one thing she truly has.

*Fear!*

Fear to commit to you.
Fear to commit to hear marriage.
Fear to commit to her family.
Fear to move back home.
Fear to go in a positive direction that requires honesty and trust.

And that honesty is with herself. Not just you.

I truly feel for both of you. Her making a comment about you not making plans for her BDay is telling. Especially when you tried to make plans.

I know S4E is reading your thread but I am going to say it anyway.

Set a date in the not too distant future. Lets call this date the "Move _N" date.

Do not tell anyone this date. It is for you to know and no one else.

When that date comes you make a decision. That decision can be to move on or move in.

I think for you Locke it will be a move in date. Go to her apt., pack her crap up and bring her and her crap home. Every single thing.

She gets no decision in the matter because she is too fearful to make a decision.

IF she balks or calls the cops on you then you know what decision to make. If she comes home then you love her, protect her and work together to fix your personal and marriage issues.

That time Locke, is not too far away.

You and S4E were in my prayers this weekend. I will keep your family there until S4E comes home.

I like your resolve Locke. I only hope for you that S4E loves you! for your resolve.........

HM64


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

She texted me todayand asked " How am i suppose to come home when Im afraid ur gonna go back to u".

And she pointed out that somewhere we went wrong before the OM. Well of this I am certian.

I think we stopped telling each other what we wanted/needed from one another. I think we held too much in until we couldn't stand it any longer. Then when either of us would finally tell the other what we needed/wanted it was delivered out of anger and disappointment which always caused unneeded friction. I also think we let our pride get the best of us and refused to see any situation from the other's perspective.

Through my IC I learned a lot about perception, and about teaching myself to be consciously thinking about things as they may appear to others. Our MC is also hotting this topic hard and heavy. I think we can use that to help us. Am I on track here?

Also has anyone ever read "From a chicken to an Eagle"?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

First things first.

Stop the incessant cowardly texting.

A simple, "I'm not ok texting about emotionally charged subjects" should do the trick.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

One that I'm using lately is: I'm not ok bringing up the past anymore. This is who I am now and that is who I was then.

I don't see a future with my W, but I do se her not bringing up the past anymore because I won't have it.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> First things first.
> 
> Stop the incessant cowardly texting.
> 
> A simple, "I'm not ok texting about emotionally charged subjects" should do the trick.


But I am OK as long as it is not too emotionally charged. I took our conversation earlier as her simply telling me how she feels and where she is at with things. As long as she is not attacking or degrading me I am perfectly OK with constructive communication.

I guess you would have to be in my shoes on this one. Before we hardly spoke at all and if we did discuss our situation it was wrought with anger and attacks. But now she is able to simply share how she feels in a non-agressive way (we both have or moments still) and i am OK with that.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>"How am i suppose to come home when Im afraid ur gonna go back to u".<<

This is not emotionally charged?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Given the context our conversation took place in no. We went to my son's school today to help him decorate pumpkins, and when we briefly discussed it she wasn't emotional about it at all.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I must apologize to everyone who participated in helping through my original thread. I was misleading in some of the things I said out of anger and frustration towards my W. I allowed my pain and anger to exaggerate and even change the context of some of the things I posted. All I really wanted to do was vent and get constructive advice. To those of you I lied to I apologize.

Most of you have been very helpful and constructive in your advice and I could not thank you enough.

Please accept my sincerest apologies.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Well it's my turn to be sick. Last week I found out I had shingles. It was pretty uneventful until Sunday. Now I have major migraines, I am dizzy, and I am weak.

I have been stuck at work alone and unable to sit for most of the last 3 hours.

I have been meaning to post on here all day.

I just wanted to say that my W and I are not crazy. We are just dealing with a lot of things right now, both separately and collectively. I know our threads are at times harsh about the others' actions, but we are trying to get our problems in the open because we could use all the help/advice we can get.

So to anyone who has tried to help us. Thank you. To anyone who has not, you may kindly press the little red X in the upper right hand corner of your web browser and have a nice day.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry about your shingles Locke. That can be painful.

And I do hope both of you get it all out in the open and deal with those issues to a happy conclusion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

The grass is not greener on the other side. It's greener where you water it.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> The grass is not greener on the other side. It's greener where you water it.


Just make sure its water first Locke???

I hope your shingles are getting cleared up.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Well my W deleted her thread. She felt like no one gave her any advice, and that people were just lining up to throw stones at her.

MC was insightful last night. That book I mentioned "From a chicken to an Eagle" is really helping my W apparently. I have not read the book myself but I guess it has a lot to do with perception, and the ego vs the spirit. Anyhow she shared a lot of positive things at MC but for some reason I couldn't appreciate it. I guess I just have to watch and observe. Maybe if I see consistency I will have more hope and will be able to trust the positive changes. Right now I just don't know what to think...


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Your scared. Getting the full blame all the time will do that to you.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Well my W deleted her thread. She felt like no one gave her any advice, and that people were just lining up to throw stones at her.
> 
> MC was insightful last night. That book I mentioned "From a chicken to an Eagle" is really helping my W apparently. I have not read the book myself but I guess it has a lot to do with perception, and the ego vs the spirit. Anyhow she shared a lot of positive things at MC but for some reason I couldn't appreciate it. I guess I just have to watch and observe. Maybe if I see consistency I will have more hope and will be able to trust the positive changes. Right now I just don't know what to think...


So what do you think? Did not one person offer any good or sound advice? Send me a PM when you answer.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Well my W deleted her thread. She felt like no one gave her any advice, and that people were just lining up to throw stones at her.
> 
> MC was insightful last night. That book I mentioned "From a chicken to an Eagle" is really helping my W apparently. I have not read the book myself but I guess it has a lot to do with perception, and the ego vs the spirit. Anyhow she shared a lot of positive things at MC but for some reason I couldn't appreciate it. I guess I just have to watch and observe. Maybe if I see consistency I will have more hope and will be able to trust the positive changes. Right now I just don't know what to think...


What positive changes are you seeing?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

We have been spending more time together lately. She is not as consistently cold or hostile. She actually did something the MC suggested. She discussed how her perception is changing compared to what it had been.

Small things mostly. But its a start.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> We have been spending more time together lately. She is not as consistently cold or hostile. She actually did something the MC suggested. She discussed how her perception is changing compared to what it had been.
> 
> Small things mostly. But its a start.


Good.

People vote with their feet.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Well I screwed this up.

MC was a bust tonight. She shared at MC that she was not ready to come home to me because I am always lying to her. But she did admit that she was taking baby steps towards spending more time together and what not.

My Wife told me earlier this week that she wanted to make our marriage work. We had lunch the other day, and she had me over for dinner last night even. But I couldn't keep my mouth shut about my fears at MC and now I am paying for it.

I brought up at MC tonight that I felt deep down that she really wanted to D. So after MC she told me we were done. She said that I pushed her too hard and now we are done because I didn't give her more time. 

The thing is, I am giving her time. I was just sharing my feelings at MC and now I blew it. Do I see the baby steps? Yes, and I am grateful, but I am afraid that every day we are apart is the less of a chance we have at saving our marriage.

This is hard. I guess she doesn't care enough to forgive and give another chance. Is it too late? This is like Hell on Earth.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Well I screwed this up.
> 
> MC was a bust tonight. She shared at MC that she was not ready to come home to me because I am always lying to her. But she did admit that she was taking baby steps towards spending more time together and what not.
> 
> ...


Wow, she's still on the "he's a liar" crap?


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Locke

Are you still lying to her?

If yes, what are you lying about?

HM64


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Locke
> 
> Are you still lying to her?
> 
> ...


No I am not lying to her. But she thinks I am. She didn't offer any recent examples. The only thing she mentioned was something I admitted to at MC last week from a while back.

The MC actually seemed a little frustrated at her for not being honest with him. I won't go into specifics on that whole mess but I will say that the MC is trying to help us, but his advice is only as good as the information he gets from my wife and I.

Either way my W told me we are done tonight. She refused to talk to me about it at all and threatened to call the cops when I stopped by to try and talk.

I hope this is not the end but I have done all that i can from my end to try and bring about reconciliation. The ball is and has been in her court for some time and just when she was starting to slowly come around I had to open my mouth...


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Really Locke?? Really??

Your stbxw is a real piece of work, she really does have you wrapped around her wretched little finger.

There's a reason why MC is frustrated with her, and it's the exact reason why she removed her thread from TAM.

The MC (along with us) see through her BS, the only one who can't is you.

She has no interest in fixing the marriage.

The only thing she wants is to make you her little puppet boy.

"Oh no! I said something that upset her! It's all my fault! WAAAAHHHHHHHHHH-BULANCE!!!!!".

It's well beyond that by now.

Grow some god damn balls. FFS.

Oh, no doubt she will now come spy on here looking for your posts.

Better not say too much, she might call the cops!

Unless you're lying about it.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I hold on because there is still good left in her. There is still a chance for a happy ending that doesn't involve us going our separate ways. I hold on because this woman means more to me than any selfish entitlement I think I have towards self preservation.

She said something at MC about me (not an exact quote) being too scared to be alone or without her or something. That I am too scared to walk away even if I thought it was the best thing.

The thing about that assessment is that it is dead wrong. I choose every day to try and wait for my W to deal with everything she is dealing with. It is a choice I make every day when I get out of bed. Hoping and praying that someday soon my W's love will overcome her fears and she will finally let her walls come down.

And I don't choose to hang on simply because I want to. I know full well that in many ways this would all be easier if I just gave up hope and let her go. I keep holding on because I never stopped loving my W for who she is and she can be if she would only get out of her own way.

Most guys in my shoes would not still be trying at this point. Maybe I am crazy, but holding on is about the only thing I know to do that shows that I still love my W.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I hold on because there is still good left in her. There is still a chance for a happy ending that doesn't involve us going our separate ways. I hold on because this woman means more to me than any selfish entitlement I think I have towards self preservation.
> 
> She said something at MC about me (not an exact quote) being too scared to be alone or without her or something. That I am too scared to walk away even if I thought it was the best thing.
> 
> ...


*Locke,
I do not think your crazy.

But I do think your wife is. I also think she is so scared to commit to you and your family.

I also think you love your wife unconditionally. But she does not love you unconditionally. She has placed way to many conditions, roadblocks on your relationship that I honestl;y think she never intended to go back to you.

Every time she could have she found a new reason not to. And of course she has blamed you.

Yeah some bad things happened in the past. To her and to you. The difference is you are looking for a better future that has both of you and the kids in it.

But she is only looking at the past and is too scared to turn around, face forward and move in that direction with you.

Do you ever wonder what life might be like without her?

I think you should try to limit your contact with her and prepare to move on without her.

You might actually find happiness again.

And as far as your wife, I truly wonder if she will ever be happy Locke. And that is a very sad thought but totally out of your control.

If you truly love her then grant her the last request. It might turn out to be good for you and quite possibly the worst mistake of her life.

SO go ahead, give her what she asks for. It is not what you want but it takes two to have a marriage.

And you are only one......

HM64
*


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> *Locke,
> I do not think your crazy.
> 
> But I do think your wife is. I also think she is so scared to commit to you and your family.
> ...


I have read your thread and her thread before she deleted it. Synthetic told her a profound thing that anyone else but you would have waited as long as you for her-paraphrasing. When HM64 changes the colors, he means business:lol:


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

She's right.

You're a scared little boy and she sees it.

Comes off week and unattractive.

Been trying this for how long?

Is it working?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> No I am not lying to her. But she thinks I am. She didn't offer any recent examples. The only thing she mentioned was something I admitted to at MC last week from a while back.
> 
> The MC actually seemed a little frustrated at her for not being honest with him. I won't go into specifics on that whole mess but I will say that the MC is trying to help us, but his advice is only as good as the information he gets from my wife and I.
> 
> ...


Go see a lawyer and file for divorce.

Enough is enough.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Go see a lawyer and file for divorce.
> 
> Enough is enough.


He never will.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And Locke

It has nothing to do with opening your mouth or what you brought up in MC.

Your wife does not want to reconcile. She truly never has.

If she did she would never have moved out or would have moved back in.

Go find someone that is stable.

Let her go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

happyman64 said:


> And Locke
> 
> It has nothing to do with opening your mouth or what you brought up in MC.
> 
> ...


Remember when you called her bluff?

She said she "wanted to move home, but couldn't because of posOM"

You offered to move there.

How did she take to that?

From 50,000 feet, I can tell you how it looks.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter (Aug 25, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear this. I was hoping y'all were doing well, in your absence. :/


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Rosemary's Granddaughter said:


> I'm sorry to hear this. I was hoping y'all were doing well, in your absence. :/


As her friend, you should be in a position to advise her what she's about to lose.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Rosemary's Granddaughter said:


> I'm sorry to hear this. I was hoping y'all were doing well, in your absence. :/


As did I. She says she is done because her baby steps were not good enough for me...


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> As did I. She says she is done because her baby steps were not good enough for me...


You should ask her to write out a 5 year plan that's chalked full of these baby steps.

Put a leash around your neck and give her the other end.

It's the only way after all this time that it will "work".


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You should ask her to write out a 5 year plan that's chalked full of these baby steps.
> 
> Put a leash around your neck and give her the other end.
> 
> It's the only way after all this time that it will "work".


I still have faith in my W. The mess we are in hurts a lot but it can get better. She is a good person at heart, she just has a lot of things to work out still in regards to how she views me and our marriage.

I am not wearing a leash. I am doing whatever I can to save my marriage. And I am not in denial. I know full well that she may never come back to the marriage.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I still have faith in my W. The mess we are in hurts a lot but it can get better. She is a good person at heart, *she just has a lot of things to work out still in regards to how she views me and our marriage.*
> 
> I am not wearing a leash. I am doing whatever I can to save my marriage. And I am not in denial. I know full well that she may never come back to the marriage.


Which means you better keep your mouth shut and not dare speak your own personal opinions because you might 'say something that will ruin it all'.

She still considers you a liar (which you have stated several times you no longer do AND you did apologize for it in the past) and strings you along with all her crap while you sit there 'waiting'.

This isn't an attack on your stbxw, I respond because I care about you and hope one day you will step out of the shadow of your ex and move on in your life.

You don't need to be waiting at her hand and foot for this to eventually work out you know.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

So today was just one of those days.

Earlier today I told my W that I have been holding on because I know that if we can make it through this mess as a couple, we will come out stronger in the end.

But in reality I spent most of the day trying to decide how to let my W go. I thought about it long and hard, I wanted to tell her to go her own way without sounding mean or condescending about it.

So tonight I told her what was on my mind.

When I stopped by to pick my children up from her place I asked her if I could speak to her for a moment. I was pretty choked up but I felt it had to be said.

So I told her that I loved her, but that it hurts me to know that I am the source of her pain and frustration. My only goal was to be a source of her happiness not the main source of her pain. I told her that I am sorry for not being what she wanted me to be, and that I cannot go on like this anymore. My one request was that when she finds someone else that she finds someone who is good to her and good to my kids. I ended it with "I hope you find your happiness in life." I asked her if I could hug my W one last time at which point she seemed angry. As she was headed into her apartment I said "Please don't be angry at me. I am not trying to hurt you." She said "I am not ready to give you my last hug."

It wasn't in those exact words, and possibly not in that exact order, but that was the gist of it. It was about the hardest thing I could ever bring myself to say. A friend told me yesterday that sometimes the last great act of love you can do for someone is to let them go. So that is what I set out to do.

But the response I got left me quite surprised. A few minutes after I got home my W showed up at my house. She asked me if my house was unlocked and proceeded to go inside after I told her yes. I assumed she had arrived to collect the last of her belongings or to yell at me, or both. But instead she grabbed a frozen pizza and said she was making dinner.

While the pizza was in the oven, we sat in my room and just kind of talked. We didn't really talk about anything too deep or serious. But she did say that she now feels like she has to chase me for the first time since she left.

We ate dinner and as she was about to leave, she hugged me and then we kissed for a brief moment. The last thing she said to me before getting into her car was "I'm still here."

I am so dizzy right now, and I don't know what to think. Thank God for spell check or you all would have one hell of a time reading any of this. All I know is that somehow she seemed different tonight than she has since she left. For the first time I didn't feel like she was strong arming me or stringing me along. There was something different about the way she looked at me. She almost seemed impressed or something. I am really not sure. But what I do know for sure is that what I said to her tonight was not meant to solicit any response at all, let alone a positive one. It was simply meant to say good bye.

It's been a rough day to say the least. My hope is a little stronger this evening than it was earlier today.

And please don't bash on me. I am doing the best I know how in a pretty messed up situation. And I am starting up IC again in a week and a half so maybe my IC can help me sort things out since our last session.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

This is what happened. 

It's very simple. So I'll be nice.

In your own way you finally told her "I can't do this anymore" and that you were done waiting around for her.

She seemed angry because the string she had on you was getting loose.

She doesn't like that.

So, she came by to tighten up that string and it worked.

Now, the way you felt earlier in the day has once again been manipulated by her.




"So I told her that I loved her, but that it hurts me to know that I am the source of her pain and frustration. My only goal was to be a source of her happiness not the main source of her pain. I told her that I am sorry for not being what she wanted me to be, and that I cannot go on like this anymore."

That is such a wrong way to thing man.

No one can find real happiness in someone else.

All that leads to is unhappiness once the 'giving to get' expectations fall to sh!t and the blame game starts all over again.

Who else is there to blame when your 'happiness' is in the hands of someone else.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Locke

Congratulations.

You reached your limit. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Wait till she gets served. Maybe she will move back in.

Maybe your wife is controlling you maybe not.

That s not the issue. Your issue is that your wife is fence sitting and stringing you along.

Can I make one suggestion to you?

Get a life. Work on you. Do these things separately from your wife.

Be the best man and father you can be.

Leave the husband at home for a while.

I think you can be the man you want to and your life will improve.

And just maybe your wife will want a piece of that new and improved Locke 2.0 and stop making up excuses not to re-enter the marriage.

Either way, with or without her you will be in a better frame of mind.

HM64


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Locke
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice HM. I am trying very hard to work on me. But when i am around her I go back into husband mode. Actually the biggest area I am focussing on ATM is the father part. Lately I have had a hell of a time being happy around the kids. So last week we got my daughter signed up for dance class and my son is taking Tai kwon do. Not sure I spelled that right but at least it gives my kids some activities to do to take their minds off mom and dad.

Oh, and I haven't filed anything so she is not getting served. We will cross that bridge if it comes down to it, but I am not sure we are there yet, and I sincerely hope will won't be.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Hey Locke...

I agree with everything HappyMan said. My advice to you, though, would be to _really_ let her go. It sounds...to me, at least...like you gave her a speech yesterday and told her that "this is it". However, you then let her back into your home.

If "this is it"...if you really can't take this push and pull anymore, then you need to _stop_ taking it. 

Telling her that you are "done", and then letting her make you dinner is just creating more drama and more confusion.

Personally, I don't know how your heart can take all that. I couldn't do it.

If you are "done" with her as she is, then be "done". In the back of your mind, you can leave the door open for a little while if you are not truly ready to let her go. However, you really shouldn't let her back in unless she shows some _real_ and _true_ growth.

Leave her alone, and let her keep all those "baby steps" until they accumulate to something that is actually valuable, real, and authentic. 

The truth is, little bitty baby steps are just not good enough. ...it doesn't equate to real change. Let her go, leave her alone, and let those baby steps accumulate for a while. 

Aren't you just exhausted from all this drama? ....isn't it just draining? 

Set some boundaries, and say "no" to this drama.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

So I took a month off from TAM. I am back. So here is the update.

First and foremost I am doing fine. Never thought I would say this but I am.

Secondly I may be moving my thread to the "Reconciliation" section.

So here is the update. A few weeks ago our MC tried some new type of therapy. It essentially allows a person to reprogram their brain (or retrain might be a better description). He said this can be used to help someone overcome a phobia, fear, anger, hate and anxiety. Long story short, treatment one worked for my W. She overcame a part of a nasty situation she had been holding onto for a long time. Or more accurately she was able to let go of a negative emotion when looking back on the situation. I will ask him what it is called this week and get back to you on what it is called so you can all research it for yourself. But in any case it helped my W which in turn helps us.

Since then we have had lunch and supper together several times. We also spent Thanksgiving together as a family. Things were looking up.

I stayed at my W's place twice this past week and she mentioned me moving in with her until we can find another house. She even mentioned me putting in my 30 day notice with the landlord.

I hope I am not setting myself up for disappointment and seeing hope where there is none, but it seems legit this time. I guess only her actions will tell...


----------



## Dewayne76 (Sep 26, 2012)

Man I love to see good endings, I truly hope this is 1, what you want and need, and 2 that it really truly does work well. 

Please keep us updated. 

If you are happy, I am happy. 

Take care


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Very cool Locke

That is a good update.

Take it one day at a time. And enjoy each other.

The key is to commit 100%. 

Commit to a future together as a family and keep working on those personal issues.

The both of you!


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Locke.

Take this slow.


----------



## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Great news  

Congrats Locke and good luck!

By reading " Getting back together " and reading your story I'll like to ask you - are you sure isn't too early to move in with her ?

Will love to know the name of the therapy


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

L, hope you and your wife can find peace in 2013. best of luck.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the encouragement and advice. We are definitely taking this slow. I did not put in my notice for where I am staying, because I have to make certain this will work.

My W is still struggling with things, this much is obvious. She told me today that she is not feeling the intimacy, and that she is having a hard time wanting to be around me because I am still bringing up our problems.
After my son's Tae Kwon Do class last night, we went to my W's place, and shortly after I got there she "went out" for 2 hours. It was odd to say the least, but I can understand where she is coming from. It is not easy facing our problems, and I do tend to run my mouth in an effort to "fix" things. So I guess I need to do a better job at not bringing things up every time they bother me. It's not like it helps anyway. She either cares that the things she does bug me, or she doesn't. I guess it is really that simple.

A little more background is necessary as well to really create the picture of how we ended up here I think.

As I said a couple of days ago, we were spending more time together over the last month or more, but things weren't really getting any better. Not really anyway. And I am frankly tired of being ignored and treated like an afterthought by the one person who was supposed to have my back and always be there for me, so I began debating to move on and be done with her or not. This debate has raged within me for weeks, but I just couldn't decide what the right thing to do is.

On one hand, I love the marriage we used to have, and I love my W for how she used to be. But I do not love my W for who she is choosing to be now, and for how she utterly disregarded my feelings time and time again over last couple of years, up to and throughout our separation.

So a week ago Friday I started taking to a woman. We text messaged Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday night. It was mostly harmless although there was an exchange of invitations to hang out, and a little flirting. Come Monday I realized that this is not what I want for many reasons.
1. I am not ready to start a new relationship with anyone
2. I was still holding on to my marriage
3. I work with this person

So Monday night I sat down with this woman and explained that this cannot work. I do not have what she wants me to give to her. I also explained the other three reasons above to her and she really didn't want to listen, but in the end I was able to convey that I am still in love with my wife and until that changes it would not be fair to anyone who takes an interest in me.

Where this tale gets messy is that I went to my wife after dropping this woman off to her car and explained to her what had been going on over the weekend and that night. The thing I was not aware of is that my W had already seen us sitting in my van together and of course she assumed the worse. I ended up getting screamed at and slapped and finally kicked out of her apartment. This was followed by an hour and a half of angry text messages. The next day this was the main topic of MC. But after MC got over my W invited me to come to her place and spend the night.

I spent Tuesday night and Wednesday night last week at her place, and then I spent Sunday and Monday night this week but I am still not convinced that she is willing to make this work. There are still too many obstacles standing in her way to open her heart.

She told me today that I was the one who gave up on the marriage. !? That is a big pill for her to expect me to swallow for sure. I struggled yes, but in the end I chose to stick it out. Not sure what to do about anything at this point.

The ball is still in her court, just as it has been since she chose to leave. And I guess I need to accept that.

So yes, slow and steady it goes. I need to work on not pushing for resolutions to everything, and I wish she would work on being warmer and more compassionate towards me, and start letting her walls down so we can make REAL progress.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Locke

I wonder if a MC could help you both setup guidelines for a proper R???

One thing I will say is that you cannot beat a horse to death!

If you keep hitting your wife about the issues 24 hours a day she is going to go crazy. And you wonder why she left for two hours of peace???

Both of you need to decide when is the proper time to discuss issues, problems together.

Come up with a plan together.

If you both want to Reconcile then start working together.

I am glad you are honest with us and her. Now get those boundaries in place for both of you.....


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Thank you for the advice HM64. Will do for sure.

MC was good last night. My W said that no matter what she had to work past she was determined to fix our marriage. I hope it lasts. I stayed with her again last night, and was pleasantly surprised because she turned down an invitation to go out with a friend to be home as a family. One day at a time.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Anytime Locke.

And the keyword is Patience.

I remember your wife Locke. If she says she is determined then I have to agree with her.

I certainly would not want to fight with her....:rofl:


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Small update

I have spent almost every night at her place in the last week or so. I think things are slowly getting better. We have been talking a lot more, and we went to her Aunt's house last weekend. It was nice getting out of town together. She still considers her apartment "her place" so I understand that I am only a guest there, but it is a start.

We are taking things one day at a time.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Small update
> 
> I have only spent almost every night at her place in the last week or so. I think things are slowly getting better. We have been talking a lot more, and we went to her Aunt's house last weekend. It was nice getting out of town together.
> 
> We are taking things one day at a time.


Cool. I was wondering how you are. Didn't want to be too nosy.:rofl:

And one day at a time is good.

How are the kids through all this?


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

They are a lot happier. Although my son has some attitude left over...

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

That is to be expected.

He is a little like his Mom or is he like you Locke???


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

He has got the worst of both of us I am afraid. Mainly his attitude has to deal with him not listening to us. We are working on it though.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Update.

Things are getting better a little more each day. We are moving into a new house in a week and a half. We worked out some of the financial details yesterday and are ready on that front to move forward.

As far as our relationship is concerned there are still some quirks to work out but for the most part we are beginning to find happiness again. One step at a time.

My W is also considering quitting her job in a few months and coming back home to spend more time with the kids.

We had a conversation the other day about a couple of ideas my W had. She mentioned that we could either renew our vows or go on a real family vacation this year, but it is doubtful we can afford to do both so we have to pick one. Both ideas are welcome in my book but I told her lets see how things go for a while before deciding.

We are not in MC at this time due to holidays and our busy schedule due to our jobs, and preparing two houses worth of stuff to be combined into one again. I hope by next month we can get back to the MC to guide us through this transition.

Please pray for my family. And thank you all for your support.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good Update Locke.

Take it slow. 

Sending prayers your way right now.....


----------

