# Marriage on the rocks after being together 25 years



## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

I am hoping this is a good place to start but basically I just need to open up a little. I have been married over 16 years and with the woman since high school. We have been through a lot. Recently she told me she has seriously thought about divorce. 

Now to be honest, I have not been the greatest husband...I don't want to make excused. Since we have had kids there have been time where we are distant, I have not done a good job at making her feel special, needed, desired...the things that should be there naturally in a marriage. She decided to tell me and let us work it out...after all 25 years together is a long time. 

I had been making a serious effort to change. We have been having sex alot more. More in the past month than the entire year. We have been spending more time together and having fun. But I have had a gut wrenching feeling that there was something more, something she wasn't telling me. It turns out she had a connection with someone from work. She swears nothing physical happened, but she is attracted to him. She said it was fun and exciting and made her feel special for the first time in years. I couldn't argue, especially if she was being honest. 

Now it's awkward and seems like starting from square one. I feel terrible and depressed and it sucks with the upcoming holidays.

Sorry for the long post...just looking for wisdom and maybe a female perspective.

Thanks


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jp4000 said:


> I am hoping this is a good place to start but basically I just need to open up a little. I have been married over 16 years and with the woman since high school. We have been through a lot. Recently she told me she has seriously thought about divorce.
> 
> Now to be honest, I have not been the greatest husband...I don't want to make excused. Since we have had kids there have been time where we are distant, I have not done a good job at making her feel special, needed, desired...the things that should be there naturally in a marriage. She decided to tell me and let us work it out...after all 25 years together is a long time.
> 
> ...


Start digging. Throwing the divorce word out and then finding out she was "interested" in someone else is not a good sign. Strong possibility of a physical affair. Need all the information if you are going to work this out.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

It is good that your working on your issue, but it does not absolve her of her actions. If she was disatisfied, then she should of have communicated this with you long ago. Communication works both ways.

Also the possibility of the affair being over is slim. Attachment does not simply fade overnight. Be secretly vigilant, and until she works on her issues, she is no prize either.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Start making her feel special. Take over his role in her life.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Hi OP,
IMO, you need to work out if she's serious about the guy at work. Plenty of people here now about spying on your wife, but this is also what happens when someone has felt neglected for too long, so it's good she's raised it with you. Is she serious about making the marriage better? Sounds like it to me. You may need to do lots more talking before you know, but do the talking with her and work it all out. There are many good books, but talking is what they are about. Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I've been through this. Wife came to me, said wasn't happy for the longest time. Confused and bewildered, and taking my wife at her word, I scrambled to shore up all of the areas that I "must" have been failing, but just got more anxious and more clingy and fearful about the situation.

Sure, there is always room for improvement in a marriage, but an emotional entanglement (EXACTLY what my wife fell into) pretty much re-initializes a wayward spouse toward the affections of another person. To get to that stage, they already started believe their self-lies that it was just flirting, and then they have to fool themselves that they can walk away anytime. Then when they can't walk away...they try to pass it off that it is love...when basically the _entire mess_ is that they weren't careful, got tempted, played with fire, got burned, and then got trapped within the walls of denial and the euphoria of an emotional affair. Let's hope it's only been an emotional affair.

In the meantime, your wife is trying to pull herself together. Her admittance of the other man is a huge step I'd say, but it is also a warning flag that there is a storm ahead, so you better buckle down and be pretty serious about following through with marriage counseling and whatnot...because wayward spouses have a tendency to come up for air for a brief window to see if indeed things will "change" before going back into an affair. 

The catch-22 is that she has resorted to dump all of the blame on you..and now you are feeling the pressure to try to appease her so she won't leave...yet she is the one who made a fixer-upper marriage situation into a demolition site, having to rebuild from the ground up with this emotional entanglement. You are right to say you are starting form square one.

Marriage counseling is a MUST. No contact with this guy is a must...even if it must resort to her leaving the job. IT IS THAT SERIOUS. There are others here who are in limbo-hell because object of affection is still at same employment. It is great you are working on yourself, but it must be balanced out that you need to have self-respect that you aren't just bending over backwards, trying harder, begging, pleading, hovering...trying to win your wife back with performance. No, no, no.

She has responsibilities too...and if she can't see that and is just looking to you to make her happy while she just looks more and more depressed and bored...then you have to stop what you are doing and work on behaviors that will build respect not lessen respect.

My two cents...

My hope is that you are getting feedback that she is truly invested in working things out and taking the initiatives to look at her own areas of responsibility. This is important...or else, things will probably go bad again.


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

Thanks to everyone on their responses. Much of our issues has been communication, or lack of. She feels that she went so long without feeling special that it may be too late to get that back. She would also say that she did not have an emotional affair. She has a shared connection with this person who has experienced many of the life issues that she has experienced. As a result, he has been able to help her work through difficult issues. The flirty situation only went of for a short time. The hard part for me was that this happened during a time where I felt things were getting better. She only did this as a mean of testing the waters and looking for outside validation that other people still found her attractive and desirable...it was an ego boost.

Also, it seems the more I try to talk to her the more she shuts down, which is frustrating. I do sometimes push a little too much, which probably doesn't help. I am really just looking for her to put the effort into moving forward but it doesn't feel like she is all in.

I suppose I should try to focus on the positives. She told me that she would never cheat on me, she would divorce me first. She said she wouldn't do that to me or my kids. And she does come home every night, on time, does things with the family, has dinner with us, etc.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

This could be a big help and under these circumstances, she might be quite open to attending with you: http://retrouvaille.org/


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

Thanks for the info. I will see what she says, unfortunately it looks like the follow up dates are on Sunday, which is when she works.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to get/ download the two books linked to below as fast as you can. Mmslp is for you alone. Njf is for you both. They work and have been recommended here thousands of times.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It doesn't sound like she is trying, is that wrong?

Decreasing or increasing sex is a red flag for an affair, emotional or physical. Is she initiating or are you?


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

jld said:


> Start making her feel special. Take over his role in her life.


Too late for that. Once they leave, they're gone. The old horrible you will always be lying underneath. And he "gets" her. 

180 time. Let's see...25 years since high school so you are a little over 40? Great news: you get a do-over.

Imagine the state of marriage in this country if MEN got a free pass when our wives didn't make us feel "special"?


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

Actually, she was initiating as recently as a couple days ago. It was only after I pushed her a little harder that she admitted to flirting with this guy she works with. As recently as today, she indicated that the flirts only went on for about a week and she was feeling scared that things might not work out with us. In her words, the flirting made her feel special again.

Now I feel like I am struggling to get back on track, especially sexually. I want to initiate again, but I think I am obsessing about the timing.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I don't think you are taking this seriously enough and are desperate to cling to your marriage. 

She quits her job now and goes zero contact with the OM.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

jp4000 said:


> We have been having sex alot more. More in the past month than the entire year. We have been spending more time together and having fun. But I have had a gut wrenching feeling that there was something more, something she wasn't telling me. It turns out she had a connection with someone from work. She swears nothing physical happened, but she is attracted to him.


He has been meeting her Emotional Needs

When a woman is in EA only- getting her Emotional Needs met increases her sex drive and she takes that home and uses your body to get off while seeing his face

For a woman, once she takes it to PA- she becomes monogamous with him and sexless at home.

You've caught this at EA and you can nip it in the bud by being the man who meets her EN's.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you should insist your wife take off a Sunday and do the weekend as Blonde suggested. It could quickly put things back on track.

Meeting the need in her to feel special and desirable is key, along with clearly communicating what could happen to your marriage if she does not build better boundaries.

How are you getting yourself into healthier thinking?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ButtPunch said:


> I don't think you are taking this seriously enough and are despite to cling to your marriage.
> 
> She quits her job now and goes zero contact with the OM.


If the needs are not met, there may be a new OM. She will not go without her needs met forever.


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

Unfortunately she has struggled for years to find a job that she actually likes...which really has nothing to do with the other guy. She has repeatedly said that she doesn't even want a relationship with him, she values him too much as a friend. Is it crazy for me to think men and women can't be friends?

Her previous jobs were high stress which also caused issues in our marriage. She finally found a place where she gets along with other people (actually has friends). How can I ask her to give that up?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You can ask her to give it up becuase her job and her male friend are incompatible with marriage.

However, if she is getting more emotional nurturing from her job and her friendship with him, she will give up her marriage over her job.

That's why people are telling you to meet her needs in a hurry.


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

I appreciate all the support...thank you to everyone. I have been doing my best to meet her needs, I sometimes struggle with going overboard. She told me I was getting to the point of following her around wanted to talk through things all the time. She says that I like to talk things out until they are solved, and that it doesn't work that way for her...she needs me to be patient and give her time.

As for healthier thinking...I don't know. Maybe that's part of MY problem. It's very possible that I am being a little obsessive right now.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

IMO meddling with a job she likes is NOT going to win her heart. To me it comes across as controlling and it would make me angry at H.

Your W has been transparent with you. This is a "wake up" call and you have a real chance to work on the M together and make it more *mutually* satisfying.

It is endearing to me when my H says things like "I love you and I am committed to you and when he wants to hear from me 'what does _____ look like?'" (He probably got that question from counseling and uses it when I say things like "I don't feel loved/protected/secure/respected, etc)


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hicks said:


> However, if she is getting more emotional nurturing from her job and her friendship with him, she will give up her marriage over her job.
> 
> That's why people are telling you to meet her needs in a hurry.


:iagree:


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

jp4000 said:


> I appreciate all the support...thank you to everyone. I have been doing my best to meet her needs, I sometimes struggle with going overboard. She told me I was getting to the point of following her around wanted to talk through things all the time. She says that I like to talk things out until they are solved, and that it doesn't work that way for her...she needs me to be patient and give her time.
> 
> As for healthier thinking...I don't know. Maybe that's part of MY problem. It's very possible that I am being a little obsessive right now.


IF it doesnt' work, then don't do it. You have to do things that work as opposed to things you would prefer doing. It's about her needs, not your needs.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

It's good that you have realized you have not been treating your wife well and made her feel special. That's the first step. Keep treating your wife special. She hasn't been getting that attention and that's why she turned to someone else. As long as she isn't continuing to talk to this person then I think you have a good chance of staying married.


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

That's part of the challenge, she works with him. She has been very clear that she does not want anything more than being friends, and that they have experienced similar struggles in the past (way before they ever knew each other), so naturally they relate to one another. 

As someone posted previously, perhaps I am am desperately clinging to my marriage. Or perhaps I am caught up in the idea of what we had and I want it back.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

jp4000 said:


> I sometimes struggle with going overboard. She told me I was getting to the point of following her around wanted to talk through things all the time.





> If there is hope for dying marriages, and I certainly believe there is, then it is likely to be found in the reconstruction of respect between warring husbands and wives. That requires the vulnerable spouse to open the cage door and let the trapped partner out! All the techniques of containment must end immediately, including manipulative grief, anger, guilt and appeasement. Begging, pleading, crying, hand-wringing and playing the role of the doormat are equally destructive.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Telling her to quit her job is an attempt to lock the cage.

Desperation and clinging is suffocating and unattractive.

Here are some suggestions:

Start working out and get in shape
 get yourself some nice looking new clothes
 smile and enjoy live
address depression or other health issues medically
increase your confidence level and independence
develop some new hobbies/interests and quit obsessing


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

ButtPunch said:


> I don't think you are taking this seriously enough and are despite to cling to your marriage.
> 
> She quits her job now and goes zero contact with the OM.


Absolutely she needs to quit her job. OM is there.

Although Blonde sees this a a catch 22. Perhaps her advise is what path to take concerning the job. For now that is. Keep close watch though. If the COW is still interjected into the marriage recovery then it is time to ask she leaves her job.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get the mmslp book below and run the map plan.

Look up bagdon's thread.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She's got her eye on another man. You can literally believe nothing she says without verifying it. 

Look up weightlifters thread in the geisha section


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Get the mmslp book below and run the map plan.
> 
> Look up bagdon's thread.


Yes, look up bagdon.


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Look up weightlifters thread in the geisha section


huh?


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Blonde said:


> Telling her to quit her job is an attempt to lock the cage.
> 
> Desperation and clinging is suffocating and unattractive.
> 
> ...


^^^^ Best advice you gonna get here.

Some good and bad news.

Bad news is, it is not easy to pull off in the short term. OP, I was once in your shoes so your description of your feelings very much ring a bell. No easy place to be but, under the circumstances, give it your best shot. For starters, stop following her around and trying to talk to her. NO relationship talk unless she initiates. This is crucial.

Good news is, implement this stuff successfully and you will emerge a better man. Do it for yourself, not your wife. But chances are, she WILL notice. You guys may save your marriage in the long runindeed, now you recognize your shortcomings (she'll have to recognize hers as well, but don't hold your breath yet). But whatever happens, you will still be a better man.

NB: I really wouldn't force her to quit her job just because some bozo is there too. If she wants to cheat, she will, where ever she is. Believe me, she already knows you wouldn't stand for that. She has to come back to you cause she WANTS to. Controlling behaviour will drive her right out the door.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Folks, it's a mistake to ask a wife to choose work vs marriage when the choice of marriage does not offer her something compelling.


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Folks, it's a mistake to ask a wife to choose work vs marriage when the choice of marriage does not offer her something compelling.


This has been one of my main struggles, especially as I read other information and articles. I agree, there is nothing I can do to stop her from cheating if that's what she wants to do. I feel like giving her that as an ultimatum (even if she agreed) would eventually create bitterness. I think I am going to work on the advise Blonde posted, especially the obsessing part. Clearly that is part of my issue...even to the degree that I have been closely watching this thread since I posted it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Here is how I would handle it.

Ask your wife if she wants to work with you on creating a mutually fulfilling marriage. Tell her you are willing to work on any shortcomings that you have as a husband and ask her if she is willing to work on any shortcomings she has as a wife. Ask her if she is willing to work with you to rebuild a marital connection. Tell her that you want to have a happy marriage and would like to offer her the freedom of choice to decide if she wants that too.

Now, if she does not commit to working with you to build a mutually fulfilling marriage, then that's a red flag. If she does, then you have something to work with. If she desires to work with you on rebuilding your marriage and she asks how can we do this? You tell her the first step is we spend time alone together daily.

If she is interested in building a marriage with you it is appropriate to tell her that you refuse to compete for your own wife and if she is not 100% in, then she is 100% out


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The way I see it, that whole friendship crap has to go.

She needs to think of the OM as an enemy of the marriage not as a friend...#1 keeping this guy as a friend could cost her her marriage and #2 this friendship could cost her her job.

The point is this friendship should be way to risky for her all the way around...it's a slippery slope to maintain this friendship when she admitted to having feelings for OM.


She has other friends does she really need to keep this one?

For those of you who do have friends (unlike my self) you all know what it takes to keep a friendship....basically being there when they need you....

Again does OP old lady really need this friend?

Before you know it, she will be going to the nail salon together and going over to OM house to help him with his breaks.


In short keep the job lose the friend.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Here is how I would handle it.
> 
> Ask your wife if she wants to work with you on creating a mutually fulfilling marriage. Tell her you are willing to work on any shortcomings that you have as a husband and ask her if she is willing to work on any shortcomings she has as a wife. Ask her if she is willing to work with you to rebuild a marital connection. Tell her that you want to have a happy marriage and would like to offer her the freedom of choice to decide if she wants that too.
> 
> ...


I guess it depends, because if she is already in luv with the OM, you won't nice her back. She would take up the offer, but never actually do anything to help the M. In that case she needs tough love, i.e., exposure and potentially D papers.


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

She has repeatedly said that she does NOT love him. She has a connection and finds him attractive. I don't think being attracted to another person is an issue...that to me is normal. She has agreed that the flirting has stopped and if it was the other way around she would be pissed. She even said that she talked to the other guy and said she can't work on her marriage if they were acting in this manner.

She has indicated that she wants to work on the marriage. I think I tend to push a little too much for her to say that everything will be ok when she doesn't really know. Perhaps I need to accept that at this point she in unsure and stop obsessing (as Blond already mentioned).


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Is she open to Marriage Counseling? (MC) For starters I'd look into that. 

The advice you rec'd about geting your act together is sound no matter what the state of your marriage. You don't want to be some schlub lugging an extra 50 pound gut around while your wife is working with the track coach if you know what I mean. 

Even if you are in good shape can you and your wife hit the gym together? Getting some shared activities going can't hurt.

You didn't mention children but if you do have them try to get a babysitter and plan a weekend getaway.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Stop obsessing and start doing.
Did you arrange a date night yet?


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

I just want to make sure you at least know that loverboy has ZERO interest in being her friend.  You know that, right? He wants to screw her. PERIOD. Now make sure SHE knows that. If she still wants to be HIS friend after knowing that, it's either really sad or the sexual attraction is mutual.

No, men and women cannot be friends, especially if there is a history there.

She is in a full blown PA with this guy. I can ALMOST guarantee it. She came to you because somebody found out and threatened to expose.


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

I have said that exact thing to her in the past. I have said that even though he talks about being her friend, if given the chance he would happily sleep with her. But at some point I need to accept that I can't control the situation, and certainly not him.

I really only care about what she thinks and feels. If some guy wants to sleep with her, how can I control how he feels. I am immensely attracted to her, so why is it unrealistic to think that someone else wouldn't be as well.

I am painfully coming to the conclusion that I need to accept certain things. All I can do it try and show her I love in, in actions and words. If that doesn't work, then at least I will have tried.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Weightlifters thread
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

If they have been cheating, ea or pa, what she tells you isn't true period. I don't think you understand this because you keep saying "she said".

ONLY actions count


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

OK, I understand all too well the deep desire to understand and know everything that might be happening or has happened, but some of that stuff in the weightlifter thread is crazy. I mean, how can this be helpful if I want the marriage to work. This is a huge violation of trust and if I even thought about going down that path, I might as well just start filling out the divorce papers at the same time.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I hear you and concur JP. To me, the whole spying thing seems weak and allows the question of cheating to control my peace. 

Cheating is sneaky and spying is sneaky. I'd rather be single than have a sneaky M

Your W was honest which is anti-sneaky IMO. And contrary to some of the opinions above, I am quite sure your M would be sexless if she had gone PA (seen it over and over on TAM- women are sexually monogamous- they cut off sex with their H if they are getting it elsewhere)


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

jp4000 said:


> OK, I understand all too well the deep desire to understand and know everything that might be happening or has happened, but some of that stuff in the weightlifter thread is crazy. I mean, how can this be helpful if I want the marriage to work. This is a huge violation of trust and if I even thought about going down that path, I might as well just start filling out the divorce papers at the same time.


I know it sounds crazy. But the moment your wife opened that door anything is possible. It happens all the time here and there is a pattern to it sometimes. I'm sorry if I missed this but you don't know how long she's been attracted to the OM and you don't know how much time they spend together at work. We spend most of our time at work, just remember that.

It sucks that you are here and I feel for you, but you are not the first one to share this story.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Blonde said:


> I hear you and concur JP. To me, the whole spying thing seems weak and allows the question of cheating to control my peace.
> 
> Cheating is sneaky and spying is sneaky. I'd rather be single than have a sneaky M
> 
> Your W was honest which is anti-sneaky IMO. And contrary to some of the opinions above, I am quite sure your M would be sexless if she had gone PA (seen it over and over on TAM- women are sexually monogamous- they cut off sex with their H if they are getting it elsewhere)


That is a good point about the sex not being cut off. It is something to watch for.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

jp4000 said:


> I really only care about what she thinks and feels. If some guy wants to sleep with her, how can I control how he feels. I am immensely attracted to her, so why is it unrealistic to think that someone else wouldn't be as well.


Let me see if I can word this better. She is hot? Yes, of course he is attracted to her. All men are. But this "he's just a friend" thing. No, he's not. The ONLY reason he wants to be "friends" with her is to get in her pants. We all agree to that. So, if YOUR WIFE chooses to still be "friends", it is either really sad for her, investing so much friendship in a snake, or she wants the same thing. 

Married men and women cannot be friends. Work associates and acquaintences when you have to be, sure. "Friends" that go out of their way to be with each other? No. One wants sex only. The other does not. It can't work.




Blonde said:


> Your W was honest which is anti-sneaky IMO. And contrary to some of the opinions above, I am quite sure your M would be sexless if she had gone PA (seen it over and over on TAM- women are sexually monogamous- they cut off sex with their H if they are getting it elsewhere)


I've got a couple of problems with this post.

1 - "Honesty" means squat. If she were found out and feared being outed, she would be "honest" so people would feel the way Blonde described. If I were to think that my affair were soon to be uncovered, I'd be "honest" as well. Not 100% honest, maybe not even 60%. But to out myself just for "honesty", no way.

2 - I have seen more posters saying "and our sex life has been better than ever. NO WAY she's cheating". Her withholding sex from him at this point would be a HUGE red flag. She needs to keep up appearances now.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Imagine the state of marriage in this country if MEN got a free pass when our wives didn't make us feel "special"?


They are getting the same "free pass" as women - divorce.


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

jp4000 said:


> She has repeatedly said that she does NOT love him. She has a connection and finds him attractive. I don't think being attracted to another person is an issue...that to me is normal. She has agreed that the flirting has stopped and if it was the other way around she would be pissed. She even said that she talked to the other guy and said she can't work on her marriage if they were acting in this manner.
> 
> She has indicated that she wants to work on the marriage. I think I tend to push a little too much for her to say that everything will be ok when she doesn't really know. Perhaps I need to accept that at this point she in unsure and stop obsessing (as Blond already mentioned).


You're right finding another attractive is not an issue the issue here is that they are both sailing very close to the wind here, 
The connection coupled with the attraction is the problem she has to know that if you are both to fix this 25 year investment of time love and money and family and friends network then she must have no m ore contact with him, if she refuses or says she can choose both of you him as a friend and you the husband then he means more than you do and then you have to decide be second best and a secure base for her or choose to help pack her bags and drop her at his as you wont be taken for a ride


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She would not like you working with your "friend".

Do you have kids with her?

She would not like the situation if it was reversed.

Will she go to counseling with you when she can? 

She may tell you some things, but not everything. And if she is in an A, she will lie to you. 

Does she share her phone, computer etc? You have no clue what goes on at work.

I never thought my wife would cheat.

But they do not have good boundaries, and go down a path that leads to lying, cheating, and attraction to the "wonderful cheating OM".

You probably need a PI or spyware.

Good luck.


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