# Husband had an affair I dont know what to do



## delamo (Aug 2, 2015)

My husband had an affair with a co-worker, I found out about a month ago. When I confronted him he denied it said they were just friends and promptly deleted all of the texts between them ( I saw a few ). He say's they did not sleep together although i did find sexual pics and videos they sent to each other via icloud. They said they loved each other daily and my husband did leave me after an argument for half the day and when i finally got a hold of him he said he wanted a divorce. I burst out crying over the phone and he freaked out and came right home when he got there I asked if there was someone else he said no I superficially asked about her by name and he said no. He reassured me that he did not want a divorce he was just angry. We talked for several hours and everything seemed fine. He went to work the next day and came home acting very different and excited. He left the house and that's when I checked the phone bill and saw he was talking to her I confronted him and he denied it as much as he could but since the proof was right in front of him he gave in and said they were just friends after drilling him he admitted that they were in love but nothing happened except one kiss on the lips that had happened that morning. 

I grabbed my keys and just left I drove a bit away and parked to gather my thoughts and he showed up in moments. He says he is sorry and never done anything like this before and he gave me more details. He also quit his job that moment.

It's been a month and I cant stop checking his phone and finding things he overlooked in the deleting process, every time I find something new it feels like it just happened again. We went to 1 marriage counseling session but was to expensive to keep going. He is trying to give me answers to questions and then sometime if I ask something I get the I don't remember answer. I don't know when he is telling the truth and when he thinks he is protecting me from.
.
Do I believe him that they didn't sleep together or am I fooling myself? I could get over it if they did but I don't think I can get over the prolonged every other day finding something new out. Of course it would be hard to hear but I just cant take anymore lies.
I have told him this and he is sticking to his truth that it didn't go that far. I am a mess and hoping someone could shed some light.
Thank you


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm sorry that you are going through this. I know it is hard.

How old are the two of you? How long have you been married? Do you have any children?

Does your husband have a new job now? Or are you supporting him now on top of his infidelity?

It is very unlikely that they did not have sex. If he's giving you the 'I don't remember" answer then it means that he did more than he's admitting to.

There are ways to get the deleted messages from his phone. 
There are ways to get all kinds of evidence so that you know what was and is really going on. Here is a link to a thread that has a lot of info on how to do this.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

As you have learned, cheaters seldom will admit to anything that their spouse has not already found out on their own. Also by confronting him right off with you not having solid evidence of what really went on, you are left not knowing and feeling very insecure about all this.

What I suggest is that you do not tell him that you are looking for more evidence. Gather the evidence and then come here and talk to us. Get a plan together so that when/if you confront him with more solid evidence he cannot lie his way out of it.

You think he's ended the affair. But do you really know that he has? 

What do you know about the OW (other woman).

It takes 2-5 years for a betrayed spouse to heal from an affair. That's when the wayward spouse is doing everything they can to help the BS heal and to repair their marriage. It does not sound like your husband is there yet.

There is a book that I think would help you: "Surviving and Affair" by Dr. Harley.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

delamo said:


> My husband had an affair with a co-worker, I found out about a month ago. When I confronted him he denied it said they were just friends and promptly deleted all of the texts between them ( I saw a few ). He say's they did not sleep together although i did find sexual pics and videos they sent to each other via icloud. They said they loved each other daily and my husband did leave me after an argument for half the day and when i finally got a hold of him he said he wanted a divorce. I burst out crying over the phone and he freaked out and came right home when he got there I asked if there was someone else he said no I superficially asked about her by name and he said no. He reassured me that he did not want a divorce he was just angry. We talked for several hours and everything seemed fine. He went to work the next day and came home acting very different and excited. He left the house and that's when I checked the phone bill and saw he was talking to her I confronted him and he denied it as much as he could but since the proof was right in front of him he gave in and said they were just friends after drilling him he admitted that they were in love but nothing happened except one kiss on the lips that had happened that morning.
> 
> I grabbed my keys and just left I drove a bit away and parked to gather my thoughts and he showed up in moments. He says he is sorry and never done anything like this before and he gave me more details. He also quit his job that moment.
> 
> ...


He's lying. They slept together.

Do you still have access to his phone? If so, you may be able to recover deleted texts, call records, voicemails, etc.


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## delamo (Aug 2, 2015)

Hi thanks for replying I did purchase a recovery software and got most everything off cloud and what was there did match what he said, But they also used snapchat with does not have a recovery messages delete in 10 secs. Married for 8 years no kids, He is doing everything possible to help me through this including going thru the texts with me because the language they used was very upsetting, so he


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## delamo (Aug 2, 2015)

Also it is definitely over we moved thousands of miles from her and I have his phone, As soon as we relocated he got a job so no I am not supporting him.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

*Finding out if they slept together and all the gory details should not be your number one priority right now.* He has already confessed to betraying you and lying so that is enough for now for you both to get in high gear in getting better. Trying to get enough proof to satisfy your mistrust of him is going to be a never ending pursuit that will drive you batty. There are other activities that you can do that will pay off more in the area of R for now.

*What is number one right now is taking actions so that he is accountable and has a person that will confront him every time he is tempted.* That person would best be a man but could be anyone (Mother?) That person can be a counselor, church/synagogue/mosque person, friends, family member, etc.). He has taken some strong steps to show that he wants to get better (Quitting job is huge). *He is showing actions that he is trying to get out of the fog but he is weak right now.*

You are also going to need help because you and your husband alone trying to R is very risky and you are overly distrustful of him because he has made you that way. Do not hesitate to get going on accountability and being built up. *If your husband will not go as far as you will then do not stop so that you can get strong enough to live with him or without him.*


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## delamo (Aug 2, 2015)

Mr Blunt said:


> *Finding out if they slept together and all the gory details should not be your number one priority right now.* He has already confessed to betraying you and lying so that is enough for now for you both to get in high gear in getting better. Trying to get enough proof to satisfy your mistrust of him is going to be a never ending pursuit that will drive you batty. There are other activities that you can do that will pay off more in the area of R for now.
> 
> *What is number one right now is taking actions so that he is accountable and has a person that will confront him every time he is tempted.* That person would best be a man but could be anyone (Mother?) That person can be a counselor, church/synagogue/mosque person, friends, family member, etc.). He has taken some strong steps to show that he wants to get better (Quitting job is huge). *He is showing actions that he is trying to get out of the fog but he is weak right now.*
> 
> You are also going to need help because you and your husband alone trying to R is very risky and you are overly distrustful of him because he has made you that way. Do not hesitate to get going on accountability and being built up. *If your husband will not go as far as you will then do not stop so that you can get strong enough to live with him or without him.*



I have been told the details don't matter and I am trying but it's awfully hard. I keep asking myself if i do find proof they slept together would this change my decision to try and work it out or time to go our separate ways. We haven't told anyone about his affair so no one to keep him accountable but he did agree to sign a postnuptual that if he ever cheats again he walks away with nothing, which I think would make him think twice before doing this again. I don't want to waste my time trying to get over this only for this to happen again next year or 2 years or etc...

He has been very good about this so far but lately he is getting angry saying i am asking the same questions over and over & it makes him feel bad that he did this to us. He keeps saying he just wants to forget the whole thing ever happened.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

delamo said:


> Hi thanks for replying I did purchase a recovery software and got most everything off cloud and what was there did match what he said, But they also used snapchat with does not have a recovery messages delete in 10 secs. Married for 8 years no kids, He is doing everything possible to help me through this including going thru the texts with me because the language they used was very upsetting, so he


Which software package did you use?

I believe that both Wondershare Dr. Fone and iPhone Backup Extractor will recover at least some of what is sent and received via SnapChat, WhatsApp, and a handful of other apps.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

delamo said:


> I have been told the details don't matter and I am trying but it's awfully hard. I keep asking myself if i do find proof they slept together would this change my decision to try and work it out or time to go our separate ways. We haven't told anyone about his affair so no one to keep him accountable but he did agree to sign a postnuptual that if he ever cheats again he walks away with nothing, which I think would make him think twice before doing this again. I don't want to waste my time trying to get over this only for this to happen again next year or 2 years or etc...
> 
> He has been very good about this so far but lately he is getting angry saying i am asking the same questions over and over & it makes him feel bad that he did this to us. He keeps saying he just wants to forget the whole thing ever happened.


Oh please. The details matter, and ESPECIALLY if he's lying about them, because that would indicate that he's aware that there's a threshold at which you'd say "F*ck it, we're divorcing!"

And even if he's NOT lying (which, honestly, is highly unlikely), the details STILL matter, because you can't fix something unless you know precisely how -- and to what degree -- it is broken.

If you have questions to which you want or need answers, he needs to be providing them, as well as giving you every opportunity to verify that he's telling you the truth.

PERIOD.

Question... does OW have a husband/boyfriend/fiancé/SO? If so, has the affair been exposed to that person?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Your husband seems dead serious about trying to get better with improving his situation with his affair. He quit his job and now will sign a pre-nup to get nothing! I believe that actions tell the truth much more than words and your husband has taken a very strong action by quitting his job and is now willing to sign away everything!


You asking him the same question over and over again is very understandable but it will be a detriment to him. You are basically saying that he is not worth being trusted and that is true but that will tear him down. You need to get help for your shattered emotions and damaged trust. However, your husband is not the one to help you in certain areas. *Why have you kept this a secret from those that can help? Tell me, can you access any of the people that I mentioned in my last post?*

A counselor, church/synagogue/mosque person, friends, family member, etc.).
*
Who do you think that can help you and him?*


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## delamo (Aug 2, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Which software package did you use?
> 
> I believe that both Wondershare Dr. Fone and iPhone Backup Extractor will recover at least some of what is sent and received via SnapChat, WhatsApp, and a handful of other apps.


Hi I used Leawo ios recovery , she was smart enough to tell him to turn off cloud when they texted so i used spotlight on the phone u only get the first sentence but it was helpfull


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

delamo said:


> Hi I used Leawo ios recovery , she was smart enough to tell him to turn off cloud when they texted so i used spotlight on the phone u only get the first sentence but it was helpfull


Try running the tool against the phone itself instead of looking through iCloud backups.


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## delamo (Aug 2, 2015)

Mr Blunt said:


> Your husband seems dead serious about trying to get better with improving his situation with his affair. He quit his job and now will sign a pre-nup to get nothing! I believe that actions tell the truth much more than words and your husband has taken a very strong action by quitting his job and is now willing to sign away everything!
> 
> 
> You asking him the same question over and over again is very understandable but it will be a detriment to him. You are basically saying that he is not worth being trusted and that is true but that will tear him down. You need to get help for your shattered emotions and damaged trust. However, your husband is not the one to help you in certain areas. *Why have you kept this a secret from those that can help? Tell me, can you access any of the people that I mentioned in my last post?*
> ...


we dont have alot of friends i do have a few best friends that I have almost told but one is going thru her own thing right now and would be of no help (alcohol prob) and the other barely ever answers the phone she is so busy. His mother would do a happy dance if she found out (no one is good enough for him in her eyes)
And as for his friends he told one but he is single and has no advice for him, Also I am embarrassed about the whole thing


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

delamo said:


> I have been told the details don't matter and I am trying but it's awfully hard. I keep asking myself if i do find proof they slept together would this change my decision to try and work it out or time to go our separate ways.


Who told you that? Him, or another source? The details matter as much as you want them to matter. Some people need ALL the details. Some people just want to know the gist. Whatever type of person YOU are, ask, and he should provide.

If he's the one saying you don't need to know the details, then you know he's not going to be honest about telling you about them. Don't stay married to a spouse who isn't honest with you.

Honestly, the details aren't the important part. The important part is if he's LYING about them. You want as many details as you need to confirm his words are truthful. How may details that is depends very much on him.

If you think about it, finding out that they did sleep together (and it's highly likely they did, sorry!) isn't about the finding out one way or the other, it's about HOW you found out. Did you find out by him confessing? Or did you find out by some other method that he is still lying about what happened? The ongoing lies are usually worse than the cheating itself for destroying a marriage.



delamo said:


> We haven't told anyone about his affair so no one to keep him accountable but he did agree to sign a postnuptual that if he ever cheats again he walks away with nothing, which I think would make him think twice before doing this again. I don't want to waste my time trying to get over this only for this to happen again next year or 2 years or etc...


Not telling anybody means you have no support system either. You need help with this; tell a best friend, a sister, your mom, find a therapist. You CANNOT rely on your spouse for this role because he's the one you can't trust right now.

A post-nup is good. Do it. Not because it will prevent anything, because it won't. People who cheat don't believe they will get caught, so the consequences are irrelevant. But if this happens again, you'll be glad of the extra money. Also, the fact that he is willing to go that far is a bit of a good sign.



delamo said:


> He has been very good about this so far but lately he is getting angry saying i am asking the same questions over and over & it makes him feel bad that he did this to us. He keeps saying he just wants to forget the whole thing ever happened.


He's supposed to feel bad! You feel bad! You are asking the same questions over and over again because his answers aren't good enough. Not asking the questions anymore doesn't make the previous answers magically sufficient.

Forgetting it ever happened is called rug-sweeping. It doesn't heal anything.

YOU want to know if you can ever trust him again.

HE OUGHT to want to know how the hell he could do this to the person he vowed to love, and do WHATEVER it takes to understand it and prevent it from happening again and earn back your trust.

By asking you to forget the whole thing happened, he wants to avoid doing the hard work on himself to become a man who wouldn't do that again, whom you can trust.

So basically, by asking you to forget it, he's asking you to accept that you can never trust him again.


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## delamo (Aug 2, 2015)

Im going to try and make a comfortable atmosphere when he gets home and see if we can talk this out. I don't see how they didn't sleep together I dont think he was leaving me over a possible girlfriend
that he just kissed once with closed lips. He just keep saying he was fighting himself the whole time because he knew it was wrong so he didnt let it get that far. I dont know if he is getting exasperated because he didnt let it go there and I believe he did or He did sleep with her and he is afraid to tell me.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

No kids = GTFO !


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

delamo said:


> I have been told the details don't matter and I am trying but it's awfully hard. I keep asking myself if i do find proof they slept together would this change my decision to try and work it out or time to go our separate ways. We haven't told anyone about his affair so no one to keep him accountable but he did agree to sign a postnuptual that if he ever cheats again he walks away with nothing, which I think would make him think twice before doing this again. I don't want to waste my time trying to get over this only for this to happen again next year or 2 years or etc...
> 
> He has been very good about this so far but lately he is getting angry saying i am asking the same questions over and over & it makes him feel bad that he did this to us. He keeps saying he just wants to forget the whole thing ever happened.


He has no right to get angry with you. You need time to process all of this and heal also and he should be doing everything in his power to help you with this. Typically selfish cheaters want to sweep it all aside and under the rug and move on. You tell him that this is not possible, if he cannot deal with it then it is better you split now otherwise you will be in a false reconciliation. Here is a very good article that HE should read. It appears that he is not as remorseful as he should be.

Understanding Your Loyal Spouse | AFFAIRCARE


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Delamo
> we dont have alot of friends i do have a few best friends that I have almost told but one is going thru her own thing right now and would be of no help (alcohol prob) and the other barely ever answers the phone she is so busy. His mother would do a happy dance if she found out (no one is good enough for him in her eyes)
> And as for his friends he told one but he is single and has no advice for him, Also *I am embarrassed about the whole thing*



*You are over your head and you and your husband are not able to give yourself the best help by yourself. Find someone that has been a success in this type situation to give your marriage a better chance of succeeding.* Stop allowing your embarrassment to keep you from fighting for your marriage and yourself; you will be much more embarrassed and troubled if you do not do all you can to save the marriage and your marriage fails. It is a choice of you saving your embarrassed face or saving your marriage. Sometimes you do not have a good choice but need to choose the choice that helps you the most. *You told me that you do not have friends or family so what about counselors or your place of faith? *One costs money and the other usually does not cost you anything.


I know that it is 100% his fault for his betrayal but in this situation, right now, with him showing real actions, I think you should concentrate on the immediate important aspects of R. You are too emotionally affected to stay on the right course by yourself. You are obsessed with if he had sex with her; that is important but at this time you can focus on helping your husband and yourself go with an R. Getting all the gory details of sex, if there even was sex, will affect you more emotionally than you are right now. You know that he betrayed you so getting gory sexy details will not change the main issue that he has already betrayed you. Look out for yourself and do not add to your emotional devastation tight now by focusing on possible gory sexual details. 

Your husband seems to really be trying to get past his betrayal and his actions show his seriousness. What do you think is the best way that you can help him and yourself? Your husband seems like he is a candidate to get through his betrayal and maybe make you a good husband.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Get tested for STDS. 

Sorry you are here but I am glad you found us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Software? Back ups? Recovering deleted items?? Wow. Trying to prove deception with deception is a clear path to divorce. If your are working towards progress, then recovering the past needs to stop. If you have decided against progress, then recovering the past is useless anyhow.

If he is spending his time trying to make things right while you're spending your time recovering things, your problems will just continue to compound. You are trying to find proof that he is lying to you while you already distrust him? That makes a lot of sense. Stop taking advice from people pushing you to go behind his back recovering deleted files because secrecy is exactly what caused these problems. 

If you are going to work on your relationship, let it go and move forward. If your are too consumed with what lies in the past then the relationship is over. Atleast let him move forward with his life. You'll never find happiness in the same place you lost it so either you both make a clean break towards building a new future together or part ways immediately.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So you'd advise that she simply take her husband at his word, even though he's already lied about not having been involved w/ someone else?

Seems like good advice.

:lol: :rofl:


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Software? Back ups? Recovering deleted items?? Wow. Trying to prove deception with deception is a clear path to divorce. If your are working towards progress, then recovering the past needs to stop. If you have decided against progress, then recovering the past is useless anyhow.
> 
> If he is spending his time trying to make things right while you're spending your time recovering things, your problems will just continue to compound. You are trying to find proof that he is lying to you while you already distrust him? That makes a lot of sense. Stop taking advice from people pushing you to go behind his back recovering deleted files because secrecy is exactly what caused these problems.
> 
> If you are going to work on your relationship, let it go and move forward. If your are too consumed with what lies in the past then the relationship is over. Atleast let him move forward with his life. You'll never find happiness in the same place you lost it so either you both make a clean break towards building a new future together or part ways immediately.


I mean, shoot, he would have no reason to lie, right? Right?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> Software? Back ups? Recovering deleted items?? Wow. Trying to prove deception with deception is a clear path to divorce. If your are working towards progress, then recovering the past needs to stop. If you have decided against progress, then recovering the past is useless anyhow.
> 
> If he is spending his time trying to make things right while you're spending your time recovering things, your problems will just continue to compound. You are trying to find proof that he is lying to you while you already distrust him? That makes a lot of sense. Stop taking advice from people pushing you to go behind his back recovering deleted files because secrecy is exactly what caused these problems.
> 
> If you are going to work on your relationship, let it go and move forward. If your are too consumed with what lies in the past then the relationship is over. Atleast let him move forward with his life. You'll never find happiness in the same place you lost it so either you both make a clean break towards building a new future together or part ways immediately.


You recomend rugsweeping as a way of dealing with a cheating spouse?

Oh, OK.

Well, please tell us how the cheated on spouse can cope when they are continuing to live with the person who broke their heart yet doesn't give a damn?

I really would like to know.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Apex.... you are the OP's spouse aren't you?....... come on, admit it, because there is no one else that would offer the advice you have. 

OP, so sorry you are here. Keep in contact as many good people here who have been and seen this many times....unfortantely.

(whew, so close to saying something that would get me banned)


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> You recomend rugsweeping as a way of dealing with a cheating spouse?
> 
> Oh, OK.
> 
> ...


There is only one way to deal with a cheating spouse and the OP chose to deviate from it. 


To suggest she become deceptive herself will only produce more problems for both of them. I am surprised no one has even mentioned it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> There is only one way to deal with a cheating spouse and the OP chose to deviate from it.
> 
> To suggest she become deceptive herself will only produce more problems for both of them. I am surprised no one has even mentioned it.


If her husband were to get indignant and blow up over her doing some discrete verification of his version of events, then there'd be nothing at all there worth saving.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Hoosier said:


> Apex.... you are the OP's spouse aren't you?....... come on, admit it, because there is no one else that would offer the advice you have.
> 
> OP, so sorry you are here. Keep in contact as many good people here who have been and seen this many times....unfortantely.
> 
> (whew, so close to saying something that would get me banned)


I worked street level law enforcement for 12 years, and have dealt with thousands of domestic disputes. Finances and cheating spouses are the top two reasons relationships fail. To suggest deception to uncover deception is to provide a sure path to divorce. The OP decided the infidelity was not enough. My understanding is that the OP is attempting to save her marriage, not absolutely kill it. 

OP... by using deception to uncover deception, you'll end up with an angry husband instead of an open one. Men are much more comfortable with being angry than hurt so understand that the "hurt" phase that he is in has a limited number of days. Don't take his feelings into consideration since he didn't afford you the same. But to be deceptive yourself in seeking confirmation for what you already know will come at the sure cost of your marriage.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, your husband had an affair and they slept together. Woman here, 57 years old, and 35 years married (first marriage for both my husband and I). Your husband told you once that he wanted a divorce. He had a change of heart. He left his job which could be indicative that he no longer wanted the affair to continue. This is because you caught him, not that he stopped on his own.

Your husband needs to be truthful to you. He believes that since he had stopped his affair and changed jobs, he no longer needs to address his infidelity. Wrong, you need to see a marriage counselor to address this issue. Otherwise, you will not heal. Your husband needs to accept responsibility for his reckless behavior and suffer the consequence of his actions. If you do not address this issue, his affair will be rugswept. Most likely, this scenario will repeat again. Then what?

Be strong. Do not be a doormat. Your husband is tantruming to get his way. You must be ready to walk away from this marriage, if he doesn't accept the full responsibility of his infidelity and help you heal. Your choice...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> I worked street level law enforcement for 12 years, and have dealt with thousands of domestic disputes. Finances and cheating spouses are the top two reasons relationships fail. To suggest deception to uncover deception is to provide a sure path to divorce. The OP decided the infidelity was not enough. My understanding is that the OP is attempting to save her marriage, not absolutely kill it.
> 
> OP... by using deception to uncover deception, you'll end up with an angry husband instead of an open one. Men are much more comfortable with being angry than hurt so understand that the "hurt" phase that he is in has a limited number of days. Don't take his feelings into consideration since he didn't afford you the same. But to be deceptive yourself in seeking confirmation for what you already know will come at the sure cost of your marriage.


If the overall perspective that you're looking to communicate w/ your commentary is "Spouse cheated? File for divorce ASAP...", well, I can get behind that.

But the whole "using deception to counter deception is pointless" argument falls flat w/ me. After all, everyone has their deal-breakers. If a given BS is inclined to reconcile w/ his/her WS, but ONLY if the affair didn't go beyond a certain point, or include certain acts, or whatever, then I'd advise the BS to use any and all means at his/her disposal to verify that to his/her satisfaction.

In the end, though, if the BS finds that he or she can't be assured of that, then yeah... file.

Still, I get hat you're saying.

Your posts remind me of @Rookie4, by the way.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> If the overall perspective that you're looking to communicate w/ your commentary is "Spouse cheated? File for divorce ASAP...", well, I can get behind that.
> 
> But the whole "using deception to counter deception is pointless" argument falls flat w/ me. After all, everyone has their deal-breakers. If a given BS is inclined to reconcile w/ his/her WS, but ONLY if the affair didn't go beyond a certain point, or include certain acts, or whatever, then I'd advise the BS to use any and all means at his/her disposal to verify that to his/her satisfaction.
> 
> ...


The OP stated she could get past the issue of her husband and this other woman sleeping together but she could NOT cope with discovering new lies from the relationship as the days progress. Why would we help her do that? Giving her advice on how to discover new lies is the equivalent of giving showing her the path to divorce, which she clearly has expressed she isn't seeking. It's easy to give advice especially when we don't have to deal with the consequences.

I suggest that if the OP is going to be forgiving, and we aren't here to judge her for that, then she should look for solutions for the future. Being deceptive to uncover deception is counter productive. 

My professional opinion is that she cease using software, data recovery apps, or whatever other spy programs were suggested if she wants to save her marriage. 

Without knowing considerably a lot more about these two as individuals and thier history together, I'm keeping my personal opinion to myself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> There is only one way to deal with a cheating spouse and the OP chose to deviate from it.
> 
> 
> To suggest she become deceptive herself will only produce more problems for both of them. I am surprised no one has even mentioned it.


Only one way, your way?

That's not even close to being true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> There is only one way to deal with a cheating spouse and the OP chose to deviate from it.
> 
> 
> To suggest she become deceptive herself will only produce more problems for both of them. I am surprised no one has even mentioned it.



she is not being deceptive she is just looking for truth. You plan is called "rug sweeping" not a smart move imo.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

aine said:


> she is not being deceptive she is just looking for truth. You plan is called "rug sweeping" not a smart move imo.


Also, Apexmale, as a former police officer I would have thought you would have been aware of the use of surveillance techniques electronic and otherwise, the use of undercover evidence gathering with police spies within organisations and the like?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Also, Apexmale, as a former police officer I would have thought you would have been aware of the use of surveillance techniques electronic and otherwise, the use of undercover evidence gathering with police spies within organisations and the like?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course, such as wiretapping, GPS tracking, email intercepting? We all know and have heard how all of that gets thrown out of courts due to the deception methods in gathering evidence. Thanks for the perfect example!


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

aine said:


> she is not being deceptive she is just looking for truth. You plan is called "rug sweeping" not a smart move imo.


She isn't looking for the truth, she already knows it just as much as the rest of us. The OP stated she would forgive her husband even if he slept with the other woman. Advising her to use deception methods to possibly uncover additional lies will also result in requiring her to provide additional forgiveness. I would NEVER give that type of personal advice. That is severely destructive and the long term effects will carry over to any future relationships that may come to fruition later on in her life.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK Delamo - sorry to have you here but here are my thoughts:



First and foremost, you have to know that there is a very high chance that they slept together, kissed passionately and even got emotionally attached - and they did this possibly for longer than you think.


So you have to see your "husband" in the clear light of day. He is a lying, cheating, disrespectful [email protected]! And he is reasonably good at it. Accomplished liar for example. He is not someone who is sorry he hurt you - he is sorry he got caught and lost his cake-eating life. He left his job to protect himself not your marriage or you. I really hope you see all of this and accept that there is a very high chance (90%+) that I am right.


Now given all of this, explain to me exactly why you want to hang on to this marriage? You love him ? How can you ? You are afraid ? Of what ? Will you be alone after ? Definitely not! So why ? Why put yourself in a position of staying with someone who doesn't respect you or love you (and you probably don't really love anymore) and face the risk of him doing it all over again since he really hasn't faced any consequences and already wants you to "drop it" and has almost certainly not come clean about the whole truth (which is the most destructive thing here). So why not dump his sorry a$$ ?


And finally, you really need to start building yourself up. If you must stay keep up the stealth surveillance as per advice on this forum. Get yourself into a position where it doesn't matter if he is there or not. Improve your health and appearance. Then calmly and clearly decide if this is the relationship you want. And if not, dump him and carefully find someone worthwhile.

Take care.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> Of course, such as wiretapping, GPS tracking, email intercepting? We all know and have heard how all of that gets thrown out of courts due to the deception methods in gathering evidence. Thanks for the perfect example!


But in the case of infidelity it is rare that such evidence is for a court. It is for peace of mind.

Knowing that your suspicions are correct means you can divorce with the knowledge that your spouse is a cheating POS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

I confronted my wife, she went to bedroom, packed two bags, and walked the 4 blocks to the other mans home and moved in with him, this after 30 years of marriage. Guess what! I then knew they were having an affair! That they slept together! but guess what! I still needed to know when it started, how it started, when and where they met, lots of stuff. I spent longer looking for evidence than it took me to get divorced..... 82 days.

This is why the OP's use of "deceptive" acts is not only justified, but really to be expected. SHE HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW. The only other way would be to ask her husband straight up....how has that worked for her so far?

I wanted so badly to save my marriage, it was her originally that pushed the agenda, once I sorta (believe me it took a long time to REALLY know and accept) figured she wasn't coming back I went along. If OP's H gets shi**y then she has nothing to save, the only way this marriage can be saved is if BOTH are totally committed. So actually if he does find out and act out badly, that is just more information she will have.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> The OP stated she could get past the issue of her husband and this other woman sleeping together but she could NOT cope with discovering new lies from the relationship as the days progress. Why would we help her do that? Giving her advice on how to discover new lies is the equivalent of giving showing her the path to divorce, which she clearly has expressed she isn't seeking. It's easy to give advice especially when we don't have to deal with the consequences.
> 
> I suggest that if the OP is going to be forgiving, and we aren't here to judge her for that, then she should look for solutions for the future. Being deceptive to uncover deception is counter productive.
> 
> ...





Apexmale said:


> Of course, such as wiretapping, GPS tracking, email intercepting? We all know and have heard how all of that gets thrown out of courts due to the deception methods in gathering evidence. Thanks for the perfect example!





Apexmale said:


> She isn't looking for the truth, she already knows it just as much as the rest of us. The OP stated she would forgive her husband even if he slept with the other woman. Advising her to use deception methods to possibly uncover additional lies will also result in requiring her to provide additional forgiveness. I would NEVER give that type of personal advice. That is severely destructive and the long term effects will carry over to any future relationships that may come to fruition later on in her life.


Ideally, a BS -- having discovered that his or her WS is engaging or has engaged in an affair -- would be able to trust the word of his or her WS, but be real... that's almost NEVER the case. Waywards lie. Hell, it's one of THE hallmark characteristics of what makes a wayward a wayward.

Getting to the truth isn't about having something that you can pull out in court to show the judge and say, "Look! He's cheating, and I have irrefutable proof!" Rather, it's about determining whether or not the BS can actually trust what the WS is saying.

"Where do the lies end?"
"Where does the truth begin?"
"Who is the OW?"
"Who else knew?"
"Was anyone else complicit in keeping the truth from me?"
"Who can I trust going forward?"

All your nifty rationalizations aside, to advise a BS to both choose and make sincere efforts toward reconciliation in the face of his or her WS's lies is nothing short of reckless and... well, stupid.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

All I can do is give my professional advice from experience, without knowing a lot more about thier history and a lot more about them as individual's, I just can't give my personal opinion. 

I am not at all surprised, people don't really want progress, they want vengeance in the form of leverage. Discovering more lies, to ask more questions. 99% of the time. personal opinion would take precedence, it was mostly always the reason why we'd get called back to deal with the same couples, having the same problems, week after week, month after month. 

Seeking out the "Where do the lies end? Where does the truth begin?, Who is the other woman? Who else knew? Was anyone else complicit in keeping the truth from me/ Who can I trust going forward?" answers can turn out to be lies just as well. Additionally, I am not asking her to choose, the OP has already chosen to forgive all on her own.

To advise the OP to apply her own deception is going to lead to questions similiar to the one's you posted. This will sure lead to certain divorce because the concept is simple, the more questions you ask, the more doubt you create.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> All I can do is give my professional advice from experience, without knowing a lot more about thier history and a lot more about them as individual's, I just can't give my personal opinion.
> 
> I am not at all surprised, people don't really want progress, they want vengeance in the form of leverage. Discovering more lies, to ask more questions. 99% of the time. personal opinion would take precedence, it was mostly always the reason why we'd get called back to deal with the same couples, having the same problems, week after week, month after month.
> 
> ...


:slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap:


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> But in the case of infidelity it is rare that such evidence is for a court. It is for peace of mind.
> 
> Knowing that your suspicions are correct means you can divorce with the knowledge that your spouse is a cheating POS.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wasn't referring to the evidence, I was referring to the methods of deception. Obtaining evidence through deception is why a lot of evidence is thrown out of our courts, atleast in the U.S. I am not familiar with other justice systems in other parts of the world.

I seriously doubt any type of evidence will bring her piece of mind. Not regarding infidelity atleast.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap:


:slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap:


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> I wasn't referring to the evidence, I was referring to the methods of deception. Obtaining evidence through deception is why a lot of evidence is thrown out of our courts, atleast in the U.S. I am not familiar with other justice systems in other parts of the world.


Who GIVES a sh*t? This isn't about producing court-admissible evidence, it's about getting to the truth. Period.



Apexmale said:


> I seriously doubt any type of evidence will bring her piece of mind. Not regarding infidelity atleast.


In the short term? No, it would likely hurt her deeply.

But it may also give her the strength and resolve needed to put and end to her marriage.

Short term pain for long term gain. That's a win every time.

And let me just say...

You, sir, have turned obfuscation into a fine art.

I salute thee!


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Who GIVES a sh*t? This isn't about producing court-admissible evidence, it's about getting to the truth. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't bring up evidence, this guy did.... 



> Originally Posted by aine<br />
> she is not being deceptive she is just looking for truth. You plan is called "rug sweeping" not a smart move imo.


<br />
<br />
Also, Apexmale, as a former police officer I would have thought you would have been aware of the use of surveillance techniques electronic and otherwise, the use of undercover evidence gathering with police spies within organisations and the like?<br />
<i>Posted via Mobile Device</i>


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> I worked street level law enforcement for 12 years, and have dealt with thousands of domestic disputes. Finances and cheating spouses are the top two reasons relationships fail. To suggest deception to uncover deception is to provide a sure path to divorce. The OP decided the infidelity was not enough. My understanding is that the OP is attempting to save her marriage, not absolutely kill it.
> 
> OP... by using deception to uncover deception, you'll end up with an angry husband instead of an open one. Men are much more comfortable with being angry than hurt so understand that the "hurt" phase that he is in has a limited number of days. Don't take his feelings into consideration since he didn't afford you the same. But to be deceptive yourself in seeking confirmation for what you already know will come at the sure cost of your marriage.


Would I be right in thinking you spent 12 years as the equivalent of something like a "Beat Bobby"?

I do not mean to be disparaging in any way, but I would guess your professional use and knowledge of covert surveillance would, therefore, have been somewhat limited?


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Would I be right in thinking you spent 12 years as the equivalent of something like a "Beat Bobby"?
> 
> I do not mean to be disparaging in any way, but I would guess your professional use and knowledge of covert surveillance would, therefore, have been somewhat limited?


I have no idea what a Beat Bobby would be here in the U.S. Why are we talking about the limitations of this "Beat Bobby" in using covert surveillance in here? Start a new thread since it is off topic... let me know when to join in.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> I have no idea what a Beat Bobby would be here in the U.S. Why are we talking about the limitations of this "Beat Bobby" in using covert surveillance in here? Start a new thread since it is off topic... let me know when to join in.


A patrolman.

Because, to be blunt, I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Your advice is flawed and potentially dangerous.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> A patrolman.
> 
> Because, to be blunt, I don't think you know what you are talking about.
> 
> Your advice is flawed and potentially dangerous.


Why are we discussing what you think about my professional advice? All the advice was to the OP, and you thinking it is flawed and dangerous is also off topic. Start a new thread and let me know when to join.

OP FYI.. 12 years Law Enforcement, 9 years U.S. Security Contractor.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Why are we discussing what you think about my professional advice? All the advice was to the OP, and you thinking it is flawed and dangerous is also off topic. Start a new thread and let me know when to join.
> 
> OP FYI.. 12 years Law Enforcement, 9 years U.S. Security Contractor.


And how many years as either a marriage or individual counselor?

Any _personal_ experience w/ infidelity?


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> And how many years as either a marriage or individual counselor?
> 
> Any _personal_ experience w/ infidelity?


Off topic, start a new thread and let me know when to join.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Off topic, start a new thread and let me know when to join.


LOL. Sure thing.


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## Working1 (Sep 28, 2013)

if the texts match up to what he has told you and you recovered them after he told you, then I would have to say the texts don't lie.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> Why are we discussing what you think about my professional advice? All the advice was to the OP, and you thinking it is flawed and dangerous is also off topic. Start a new thread and let me know when to join.
> 
> OP FYI.. 12 years Law Enforcement, 9 years U.S. Security Contractor.


Because your advice to the OP is not professional. And is unhelpful. And my warning the OP to take what you say on this matter with a large pinch of salt is not off topic.

And FYI this site is not an Internet debating club, it is where people can seek help and share their experiences with marriage, relationships and in this particular subset, Coping With Infidelity.

So I'll pass on your invitation to start a thread about you and your experiences.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Because your advice to the OP is not professional. And is unhelpful. And my warning the OP to take what you say on this matter with a large pinch of salt is not off topic.
> 
> And FYI this site is not an Internet debating club, it is where people can seek help and share their experiences with marriage, relationships and in this particular subset, Coping With Infidelity.
> 
> So I'll pass on your invitation to start a thread about you and your experiences.


My advice to the OP was based on my years in the profession which manages society. When people have relationship problems/issues here in the U.S., phone calls for police services are often utilized. I've had years of training and years of experience. The frequency of police service regarding relationships is extremely high. People call for police service when they have exhausted all their options and I was a source for direction and advice. Your advice was personal. What was off topic was your mention of surveillance, courts, and the limitations of your "Beat Bobbies".

You stated this was not a place for debating, but you are debating whether your advice as a person is better than my advice from years of law enforcement. That is clearly debating on your behalf. I gave my advice to the OP to address "Coping with infidelity", and your advice was to begin her own deception. Your advice is clearly not about coping.

Now, it's apparent you've become emotionally involved and perhaps are looking for some sensitivity. Personally, I don't have much of either. That is why I do what I do, and you do what you do. 

Do the OP a service, give your advice and refrain from the advice you don't like from others. If you don't like my advice, keep scrolling. If you must concern yourself with the affairs of others.... direct it towards the OP, not me. I am not the person dealing with infidelity, she is. 

Don't forget to mention to the OP the source of your professional or personal advice, it will add to your credibility.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sooo... to recap, @Apexmale, you'd essentially advise the OP to do... nothing?


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> Don't forget to mention to the OP the source of your professional or personal advice, it will add to your credibility.


Years and years of dealing with infidelity personally and on boards like these. Not to mention studying the subject to the point to where _your_ head would probably explode.

And I think I can speak for most around here on that one.

All you have is a useless badge and extreme arrogance on your resume when it comes to dealing with this sh!t.

Newly BSs can choose to listen to you if they wish, but they'll be doing so at their own peril.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> My advice to the OP was based on my years in the profession which manages society. When people have relationship problems/issues here in the U.S., phone calls for police services are often utilized. I've had years of training and years of experience. The frequency of police service regarding relationships is extremely high. People call for police service when they have exhausted all their options and I was a source for direction and advice. Your advice was personal. What was off topic was your mention of surveillance, courts, and the limitations of your "Beat Bobbies".
> 
> You stated this was not a place for debating, but you are debating whether your advice as a person is better than my advice from years of law enforcement. That is clearly debating on your behalf. I gave my advice to the OP to address "Coping with infidelity", and your advice was to begin her own deception. Your advice is clearly not about coping.
> 
> ...


I have qualifications in counselling, with other additional qualifications in the field of mental health.

And I have unfortunately practical experience of infidelity. 

Have you lived through the heartbreak of being cheated on?


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

3putt said:


> Years and years of dealing with infidelity personally and on boards like these. Not to mention studying the subject to the point to where _your_ head would probably explode.
> 
> And I think I can speak for most around here on that one.
> 
> ...


If you have years and years of experience in infidelity personally, you're absolutely right.... you've got me beat.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> If you have years and years of experience in infidelity personally, you're absolutely right.... you've got me beat.


Been though it twice in the past 20 years and have spent 5 years on these boards trying to help others though my experiences and through study, albeit much less these days.

Have you ever been betrayed?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Apexmale, your advice is not only wrong for the OP but it is downright destructive. You are encouraging the OP to bury her head in the sand. The advice she is being given here is based on tons of experience over many many years.

There is no evidence for the court - it is simply about getting to the truth one way or another. Waywards are experienced liars - betrayed spouses are in a daze. Hence you think her daze is forgiving the [email protected]?!?!?

She doesn't know yet what she is forgiving and much less about whats in store for her if she doesn't get to the bottom of this real quick.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

And by years and years of experience, I really meant the board collectively, not just my own.

There's one helluva lot of knowledge here.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

3putt said:


> Been though it twice in the past 20 years and have spent 5 years on these boards trying to help others though my experiences and through study, albeit much less these days.
> 
> Have you ever been betrayed?


No sir. Not while married, not while dating.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> Apexmale, your advice is not only wrong for the OP but it is downright destructive. You are encouraging the OP to bury her head in the sand. The advice she is being given here is based on tons of experience over many many years.
> 
> There is no evidence for the court - it is simply about getting to the truth one way or another. Waywards are experienced liars - betrayed spouses are in a daze. Hence you think her daze is forgiving the [email protected]?!?!?
> 
> She doesn't know yet what she is forgiving and much less about whats in store for her if she doesn't get to the bottom of this real quick.


I didnt suggest forgiving, she did. My advice was to refrain from being deceptive herself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> I didnt suggest forgiving, she did. My advice was to refrain from being deceptive herself.













Oh, good grief.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> No sir. Not while married, not while dating.


You should read some threads. They're quite eye opening, and quite disgusting as well.

Welcome to CWI.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> No sir. Not while married, not while dating.


And thanks for being honest about this.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Beat Bobby......:grin2: That makes it sound so.... fittingly limited.

Apex, I get your point about escalation and such. What the good folks here are advising is to bring the truth into the light. Any BS has a degree of 'need to know'. In this particular case the OP seems to want more than being provided by her WH.

To OP get the details and information that you need to make an informed decision. 

~ Passio


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

You must have missed this portion of her post:


"Do I believe him that they didn't sleep together or am I fooling myself? I could get over it if they did but I don't think I can get over the prolonged every other day finding something new out"


We all know they slept together. According to her own statement, she is willing to forgive. She also states she can't get over the prolonged every other day finding something new out.

Recovering deleted files, researching phone logs, using software, and tracking apps all take a tremendous amount of an investment of time. This too is from my professional experience as well. This will result in exactly the prolonged discovery of what she stated she couldn't take. You're free to give her that advice, but I would never do it. Suggestions like that come easy because we aren't the one's who deal with the outcomes.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> I didnt suggest forgiving, she did. My advice was to refrain from being deceptive herself.


Why?


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Idyit said:


> Beat Bobby......:grin2: That makes it sound so.... fittingly limited.
> 
> Apex, I get your point about escalation and such. What the good folks here are advising is to bring the truth into the light. Any BS has a degree of 'need to know'. In this particular case the OP seems to want more than being provided by her WH.
> 
> ...


This guy isnt going to provide any truth. Her obtaining it over a prolonged period of time will do more damage to the OP then kill the guy's credibility discovering more lies. And there are more lies. 

I mentioned it before, guys are much more comfortable being angry than being hurt. In her post, it appears he is hurt, but that stage eventually is overcome by anger. Anger is usually accompanied by violence. I've seen people get killed over crimes of passion so I would never suggest using deception herself.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Perhaps what she meant was that she could not handle trickle truth from WH over an extended period of time. So, maybe she should find out for herself.

I'll go along with 3putt. Read some threads here. An interesting and bile inducing pattern begins to develop. Burying one's head in the sand and hoping for the best never works.

~ Passio


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

3putt said:


> And thanks for being honest about this.


I've always had long, almost exhaustive discussions about infidelity while dating and with my wife. My industry divorce rates are astronomical and I'm not looking to become a statistic.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

delamo said:


> Im going to try and make a comfortable atmosphere when he gets home and see if we can talk this out. I don't see how they didn't sleep together I dont think he was leaving me over a possible girlfriend
> that he just kissed once with closed lips. He just keep saying he was fighting himself the whole time because he knew it was wrong so he didnt let it get that far. I dont know if he is getting exasperated because he didnt let it go there and I believe he did or He did sleep with her and he is afraid to tell me.


If that was the truth, it would be the first time adults ever stopped there when they had the choice.

In other words, he's lying.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Oh heck......I'll weigh in. Recently retired from life long career as US federal law enforcement officer. Mostly high end technical type investigations. Many years on this site.......closer to a ws than a bs. 

Whatever this lady needs to bring her peace and trust in her marriage she should do. Its for her......she is entitled. WS live a world of deception. Both to pursue their fantasy and to try not to hurt their spouse.....and yes...I do know that not being a ws is the best way to not hurt your spouse.

Rules of evidence just dont fit into this type of situation. All the OP is trying to do is peel back the layers of deception established by her cheating husband. No court or law enforcement agency is gonna enter into this type of monitoring etc unless there is an established separation or divorce. Even then it would be unlikely unless truly significant.

And for the few that might remember me......yea, I am still struggling with my inappropriate young lady friend. Darn this knight in shining armour syndrome. Now she has 3 little ones in diapers. Lots of issues and too many ways for me to help...ugghhhh.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Why?


Historically, a man is not as understanding as a woman. He will defend this other womans secrecy, violently if he has to. Have you ever seen a man defend his cell phone from his woman? Amazing stuff.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> This will result in exactly the prolonged discovery of what she stated she couldn't take. You're free to give her that advice, but I would never do it. Suggestions like that come easy because we aren't the one's who deal with the outcomes.


Actually, this will accelerate the discovery, and healing as well, if that's what she chooses. She can't possibly forgive until she knows for sure what it is she's forgiving. If she doesn't, then what will always be in the back of her mind is, "What really happened? What don't I know?"

That's no way to recover a marriage from infidelity. The whole truth must come out, or there's no point in even trying.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> You must have missed this portion of her post:
> 
> "Do I believe him that they didn't sleep together or am I fooling myself? I could get over it if they did but I don't think I can get over the prolonged every other day finding something new out"


No, we saw it. We just know how to read it.

What she's saying is that she'd _prefer_ to be told everything up front and have it all out in the open so that she can work w/ the truth from the start... instead of slowly being fed the truth over a matter of weeks, months, and years, and then only because she had to wear him down to the point where she could get it out of him.

Stick around. This is all par for the course. Everyone thinks that they can forgive certain things, but the fact that they tend to look so hard to find them often implies otherwise. _That's because they're looking for *deal-breakers*._



Apexmale said:


> We all know they slept together. According to her own statement, she is willing to forgive. She also states she can't get over the prolonged every other day finding something new out.


For those that have been betrayed and are at all inclined to reconcile, I'd advise the following...

Get to the truth, and do it as quickly as possible. Ideally your WS would be 100% cooperative in this regard, but that's not at all likely. So, if the truth isn't forthcoming, get it for yourself. And if you have to resort to some less-than-ideal means in order to achieve that goal, so be it. You are, after all, _entitled_ to the truth.

And if you're not willing to do that and still want to reconcile, so be it. Buy a big rug, buy a big broom, sweep everything up into a big, nasty pile, and then throw the rug on top of it. But know this... a failure to see things through the first time around only increases the chances that _there will be a *second* time._ (Hell, maybe even a third, fourth, and fifth... and so on and so on and so on...)

So try not to trip over that lump in the rug.

Oh, and also...? Forgiveness and divorce aren't mutually exclusive concepts.



Apexmale said:


> Recovering deleted files, researching phone logs, using software, and tracking apps all take a tremendous amount of an investment of time. This too is from my professional experience as well. This will result in exactly the prolonged discovery of what she stated she couldn't take. *You're free to give her that advice, but I would never do it. Suggestions like that come easy because we aren't the one's who deal with the outcomes.*


Many of us here have... any yet we still give the advice. Why? Because it results in the gift of _*informed* choice_.

It's not at all easy to look an ugly truth in the face, and especially when it was brought about by the person that you love most in the world (and who supposedly reciprocates that affection) AND you've had to fight and claw to get to it on your own. But ignoring the truth will only lead to something far uglier further on down the line.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Historically, a man is not as understanding as a woman. He will defend this other womans secrecy, violently if he has to. Have you ever seen a man defend his cell phone from his woman? Amazing stuff.


That matters _why_?

Someone w/ nothing to hide hides nothing.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

If I gave my personal advice, we'd be discussing water boarding methods and thread counts to extract truths.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> If I gave my personal advice, we'd be discussing water boarding methods and thread counts to extract truths.


LOL... fair enough.

Fortunately there is a pretty wide berth between using data recovery software and violating the Geneva Conventions.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> That matters _why_?
> 
> Someone w/ nothing to hide hides nothing.





> Originally Posted by Apexmale<br />
> I didnt suggest forgiving, she did. My advice was to refrain from being deceptive herself.


<br />
<br />
Why?




I was answering your previous quesion as to why she should'nt practice deception herself. If she finds a few things out by referencing phone records and data, he may attempt to hide this other womans identity by protecting his phone. Men are very territorial about thier cell phone's and I have seen serious assaults resulting from a woman referencing the information contaned within.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I don't think I've EVER seen someone use the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy this heavily in a thread. Oh and the irony of a LEO arguing against the use of deception is hilarious.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> I was answering your previous quesion as to why she should'nt practice deception herself. If she finds a few things out by referencing phone records and data, he may attempt to hide this other womans identity by protecting his phone. Men are very territorial about thier cell phone's and I have seen serious assaults resulting from a woman referencing the information contaned within.




Doesn't mean that she shouldn't ask. If he even balks at the prospect of voluntarily handing over the phone on demand (and it doesn't sound like he has, though I've not read the first couple of pages in a while), he'll have told her all that she needs to know.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Doesn't mean that she shouldn't ask. If he even balks at the prospect of voluntarily handing over the phone on demand (and it doesn't sound like he has, though I've not read the first couple of pages in a while), he'll have told her all that she needs to know.
> 
> Doesn't mean that she shouldn't ask.


She should ask, but he"ll have it already cleared out. 


I'm out and about and my BT keyboard battery just died. I can't type on a tablet screen so I will catch you all laters.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> *She should ask, but he"ll have it already cleared out.*
> 
> I'm out and about and my BT keyboard battery just died. I can't type on a tablet screen so I will catch you all laters.


And that's EXACTLY why you don't "ask".

Also, w/ the right tools in hand, him having cleared the phone won't matter.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

3putt said:


> Actually, this will accelerate the discovery, and healing as well, if that's what she chooses. She can't possibly forgive until she knows for sure what it is she's forgiving. If she doesn't, then what will always be in the back of her mind is, "What really happened? What don't I know?"
> 
> That's no way to recover a marriage from infidelity. The whole truth must come out, or there's no point in even trying.


She will always have at the back of her mind: "When will he do it again?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Apexmale said:


> This guy isnt going to provide any truth. Her obtaining it over a prolonged period of time will do more damage to the OP then kill the guy's credibility discovering more lies. And there are more lies.
> 
> I mentioned it before, guys are much more comfortable being angry than being hurt. In her post, it appears he is hurt, but that stage eventually is overcome by anger. Anger is usually accompanied by violence. I've seen people get killed over crimes of passion so I would never suggest using deception herself.


You are telling the OP to not find out the truth because if she does her husband might very well become violent? So you are telling her to be submissive, to shut up, put up and live in fear.

The idea is not to spend a long time looking for the truth. Instead it's to find out enough to know the extent of the affair and whether or not the WS is continuing to lie. That can usually take a few days.

No one should just confront their cheating spouse without safety in mind. That's why it's usually suggested that the person not just kneejerk react to finding out disturbing information.

I discovered that my husband was cheating because I acted on an intuition. And yes I did get into his email, chat and everything else he had. I also called the women he was cheating with.

If I had taken him at his word I would have never known the truth. He denied until I found the evidence. And even then he tried to deny. 

In the end, I found out who I was really married to ... a liar. Someone who could look me in the eye and lie. Someone who could go on and on about how much he loves me and lie... and cheat.

You better believe that snooping is a good idea because it's the only way that most betrayed spouses ever find out anything resembling the truth.

With the info, the BS can then make an informed decision about their own life.

They can decide to dump the WS if they think that's the best thing for them.

Or they can decide to try to recover the marriage. Even in the case of martial recovery, knowing the truth is essential. Without the truth, it's like living with poltergeists. You keep hearing things go bump but you don't know what they are. So eventually what happenes is that it kills the marriage.

Sometimes it takes a BS snooping and finding out the truth and then bringing that to the WS, for the WS to learn that marriage requires radial honesty and complete openness.

My husband did get upset at one point when I had more info. He started to tell me how upset he was that I was looking at everything of his. He told me that he felt that he could not trust me.

My reply to him was that oh no, he can always trust me. He can always trust that I will do what is necessary to protect myself. If that means hacking his email, etc. so be it. If he did not like it, he could leave.

A BS needs to know enough of the truth to be able to make an informed decision about their own life. Too bad if the WS does not like that. They lost the right to object when the cheated.

.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Apexmale said:


> Historically, a man is not as understanding as a woman. He will defend this other womans secrecy, violently if he has to. Have you ever seen a man defend his cell phone from his woman? Amazing stuff.


Once again.. so a woman most not find out the truth and must live rug sweep and live in fear?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Apexmale said:


> If I gave my personal advice, we'd be discussing water boarding methods and thread counts to extract truths.


Suggesting violence would of course get you permanently banned. Plus, we all know that things like waterboarding really does not get good intelligence. (Talking about 'professional'... I was in MI when I was in the Army)

Keep in mind that nothing on this forum is 'professional advice'. The forum is made up of individuals giving their personal input.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Delamo,

How are you? I hope the direction of this thread has not scared you? The truth is important.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

aine said:


> Delamo,
> 
> How are you? I hope the direction of this thread has not scared you? The truth is important.


I agree. To be clear, the reason I said irony is LEOs (law enforcement officers) use these same tactics, to elicit information, all of the time including deception filled undercover agents


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Delamo, we will be here for you.

If you feel threatened or belittled by any other poster you can use the report post icon that goes direct to the moderators. 

Also Elegirl is a moderator. Just PM her if you need help. 

You can also PM anyone else if you need help or advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I am not a psychologist or care professional in any way but it seems pretty obvious to me that if someone suffers a shock or post traumatic stress (which the discovery of an affair/cheating is one of the main causes) the BS will want to understand why, how etc?
The only way to 'understand' and grapple with the issue is to have answers. Now it is usual the WS will not willingly offer up those answers which are a significant part of healing and instead lie again (the lying is probably the worst) or engage in trickle truth.
Going over the event, timing, people in the know, details, etc enables the BS to have some understanding and control over their situation. The details may cause more pain and anguish but there is a desire and a need to know that drives the BS. This helps them to resolve their doubts, realise they weren't going mad initially when they had suspicion, determine the status of the marriage, determine just how 'weak' the WS is, how likely this is to happen again, etc. in other words a BS cannot make any informed decisions if they do not have information. Obtaining that information is difficult and if it involves snooping, etc then so be it because the WS has lost all rights to privacy, fair play, honesty, etc until such time as the BS is ready to make a decision to stay or leave. Then and only then will there be any chance for the marriage. Rug sweeping will only result in problems later on.

For a WS to deny the BS this kind of resolution by giving answers borders on cruelty and shows a total lack of care and committment to the marriage in order to save their own skin. Therefore the BS may have no choice but to resort to other measures to determine the truth in much the same way a parent of a teenager may not get straight answers about the kids activities, then they will use other means or methods to find out. In this case the BS is actually doing what is best for the marriage and for themselves. The WS has lost the right to receive any consideration during this process imo.


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