# Confused by Wife's Actions



## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

It started 5 months ago I was having anxiety problems and uncomfortable with my wife going to see the same cover band every 6 weeks or so. Every time she went she got extremely drunk , was always in the front row by the same guitar player and at the end of the night always ot a picture taken with him. I freaked out finally and thought she was having an affair when I found another pic of those 2 after a show and she didn't want me to see it because she has so many. This lead to a nervous breakdown and almost destroyed our marriage.

We got thru it, she told me she would never go there again, being with me and the kids is much more important. Now 3 weeks ago she now is frustrated that she can't go to the show anymore. Never mind how I felt about her actions. So its her friends birthday and she always goes to these shows and none of her other friends can go so my wife has to go to the show, never mind my feelings.
The last 3 weeks she has been acting very odd and last Saturday I am just to suspicious and I get on her computer and look at her history. For the last 4 weeks she has gone to this guys facebook page once or twice a day. I tell her what I did last night and she is extremely angry that I didn't respect her privacy and she didn't think there was anything wrong with going to his page every day. Today I see that she is facebook friends with him but has me blocked from seeing that she is friends with him. I am extremely upset. She says nothing ever happened and she barely knows the guy, he lives on the other side of the state and only saw him for a few minutes at the shows. But I think this is really wrong. Can I et anyones opinion on this? Am I overreacting? There have been no texts, e-mails or chats that I am aware of. The guy is married with a small kid. But I think it is wrong that she just can't stay away from this guy? Thoughts?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

First, there is no privacy in marriage. No secrets. None. She should have full access to your phone and e-mail anytime and vice versa. 

Second, she would not be so defensive and angry at you looking at her e-mails if she was not trying to hide something. 

I would back off for now and install a keylogger program on the computer. Now that you have snooped on her facebook she will use other e-mail methods to contact him. 

Don't go off half-c0cked and accuse her of anything until you have solid proof she is having an affair with this guy. Play dumb for now and be patient. See what you can dig up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Listen to bandit.

Key log her PC and wait.

If she`s up to something you`ll find it quickly.


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## TorontoBoyWest (May 1, 2012)

From my experience reading TAM Bandit and Tacoma are spot on.

Also it might be a good idea to let the veterans of this board know what type of cell phone she has (if she has one) as well. They can further help your collection of evidence (if any) with that information.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I agree with Bandit. This is dangerous territory.

A celebrity crush is fine if we were talking about somebody like George Clooney. She will never be alone with him, and he dates supermodels. So he wouldn't be interested in your wife.

But, we're talking about a local cover band. Those guys are completely accessible. It's not appropriate for her to act like a lovestruck teenager with this guy any more than it would be for her to have a crush on your neighbor.

So, you need to put a stop to this. If she will listen to you, then tell her not to go to anymore shows. But it doesn't sound like she will. So, you have to catch her in emails or Facebook messages being inappropriate. That will probably be easy enough.

Here's another thought. Apologize for overreacting. And go to show with her. Tell her you just want to meet her friend that is such an amazing musician. It's pretty easy to c0ckblock when you're standing next to your wife.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I agree with Bandit. This is dangerous territory.
> 
> A celebrity crush is fine if we were talking about somebody like George Clooney. She will never be alone with him, and he dates supermodels. So he wouldn't be interested in your wife.
> 
> ...


This is GOLD


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Follow instructions above. However, in future confrontations never, ever reveal your intel sources. When you do that you burn your source. Learn from your mistake.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Also it might be a good idea to let the veterans of this board know what type of cell phone she has (if she has one) as well. They can further help your collection of evidence (if any) with that information.


Good idea, what type of phone does she use?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Listen to these folks, but I'd like to add put a key logger on the pc so you can see her emails and fb messages.

She's throwing herself st him that much is obvious, the question is has he taken her up on the offer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Listen to these folks, but I'd like to add put a key logger on the pc so you can see her emails and fb messages.
> 
> She's throwing herself st him that much is obvious, the question is has he taken her up on the offer?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The bright side here is that if he is hot, talented, and popular, odds are he has too many women throwing themselves at him to have gotten around to the OP`s wife yet.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

She's risking her marriage and her husbands sanity by continuing to go to the shows and fu#kbook page yet nothing is happening????:scratchhead: Thats BS!!!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

ShootMePlz! said:


> She's risking her marriage and her husbands sanity by continuing to go to the shows and fu#kbook page yet nothing is happening????:scratchhead: Thats BS!!!


Let's not forget the multitude of pictures of them together after the show, the ones that she did not want him to see.

Something is up.

Jerry, if she goes to this show I would pack a bag, take your child and spend a quiet night at a nice motel. Enjoy some room service, rent a movie and chill.

Tell her you need time to think.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

If you can afford a PI, it would take very little time to document what's going on.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She must be special trampy to want to be a groupie for a cover band musician... I mean come on!


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Thanks for all the input. I am staying away from her computer and I can see who she texts because her phone is on my account and she knows this so if she was doing something, she wouldn't text. I have no idea how much this guy is in contact with her. He knows she is married and I have gone to the shows in the past but I can't stand them. 

I just got home and she told the kids she was sick and went to bed so it will be a peaceful evening. I am afraid divorce is ahead, as we have had fights about this show many times the last 3 years. 

I am still stunned she would friend this guy, but there seems to be nothing I can do to make her want to stop. She is almost 37 going on 21.

Again thanks for the input, i just needed some other opinions. I know snooping on a computer is wrong but I should have found nothing and then felt like an *******.

Thanks again.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

One last thing the guy has no talent. The band basically lip synchs and play along to a track on a laptop. They don't even play.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> First, there is no privacy in marriage. No secrets. None. She should have full access to your phone and e-mail anytime and vice versa.
> 
> Second, she would not be so defensive and angry at you looking at her e-mails if she was not trying to hide something.
> 
> ...


Yup, this. :iagree:


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Which phone is she using?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Thanks for all the input. I am staying away from her computer and I can see who she texts because her phone is on my account and she knows this so if she was doing something, she wouldn't text. I have no idea how much this guy is in contact with her. He knows she is married and I have gone to the shows in the past but I can't stand them.
> 
> I just got home and she told the kids she was sick and went to bed so it will be a peaceful evening. I am afraid divorce is ahead, as we have had fights about this show many times the last 3 years.
> 
> ...


Snooping is not wrong when she is behaving in a suspicious manner. You are trying to save your marriage!


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> One last thing the guy has no talent. The band basically lip synchs and play along to a track on a laptop. They don't even play.


Rip off his lips. Problem solved.

Sorry, I'm in a bit of a mood right now.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> One last thing the guy has no talent. The band basically lip synchs and play along to a track on a laptop. They don't even play.


Maybe he has talent in pulling married women into bed?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I agree with Bandit. This is dangerous territory.
> 
> A celebrity crush is fine if we were talking about somebody like George Clooney. She will never be alone with him, and he dates supermodels. So he wouldn't be interested in your wife.
> 
> ...


Absoluely. A wife becoming a cover band goupie is very low value on her part. Get real.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Absoluely. A wife becoming a cover band goupie is very low value on her part. Get real.


Next she'll be admiring how well he stocks the shelves at Walmart at his day job.

I told you I was in a mood.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

jimmy said:


> thanks for all the input. I am staying away from her computer and i can see who she texts because her phone is on my account and she knows this so if she was doing something, she wouldn't text. I have no idea how much this guy is in contact with her. He knows she is married and i have gone to the shows in the past but i can't stand them.
> 
> I just got home and she told the kids she was sick and went to bed so it will be a peaceful evening. I am afraid divorce is ahead, as we have had fights about this show many times the last 3 years.
> 
> ...


37? Ufb

She has been doing this stuff for the last three years. Wow.

Transparency is the adult respectful thing to do. All is fair in protecting a marriage. So please weigh the heavy PC notion that checking on your wife is wrong against a very good possibilty some guy is trying to get in her pants. You do the math. Better to lose your wife to a cover band guy than live with the incredible stigma of caring enough to help her remain faithful? Oh well.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

She thinks everything she has done is fine. She destroyed 2 phones and lost $50 another night out of her purse because she gets so drunk. Going to his facebook page to look at pictures everyday for 4 weeks is OK. It is impossible to reason with that logic.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> She thinks everything she has done is fine. She destroyed 2 phones and lost $50 another night out of her purse because she gets so drunk. Going to his facebook page to look at pictures everyday for 4 weeks is OK. It is impossible to reason with that logic.


You cannot reason with someone who is out of control of themselves. All you can do is know your own boundaries and hold others accountable.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Ok, time for some serious advice. You need to serve her divorce papers to shock her out of her fog. She is not going to listen to you right now. She is infatuated with this guy and if she is not in a physical affair yet she soon will be. I would consider this a severe danger to your marriage and it should be treated appropriately. If you manage to shock her out of this ridiculous behavior by having her served with papers then you can start discussing boundaries and codes of reasonable conduct. If you don't stop this now she will end up in an affair. If not with this guy than another. She's out of control. Time to put the hammer down friend.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Is there some reason you can't go with her? Are these women only shows? I don't know, me, I'd be going along protecting my turf like a bull. I'm not going to tell my wife she can't go someplace but I'm also not going to ask permission to go there myself. If she's out partying while you stay home with the kids she must think you're all kinds of beta.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Ok, time for some serious advice. You need to serve her divorce papers to shock her out of her fog. She is not going to listen to you right now. She is infatuated with this guy and if she is not in a physical affair yet she soon will be. I would consider this a severe danger to your marriage and it should be treated appropriately. If you manage to shock her out of this ridiculous behavior by having her served with papers then you can start discussing boundaries and codes of reasonable conduct. If you don't stop this now she will end up in an affair. If not with this guy than another. She's out of control. Time to put the hammer down friend.



I think that is what she wants. Last night when we were arguing she kept blaming me for ruining our marriage and messing up our kids. She wants out but wants me to be the one at fault. All conjecture but that is all I can do with someone who doesn't tell me anything.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

I have gone in the past. When we first started going it was OK for the first couple of times but then her and her friends wanted to be right next to the stage and meet the band. But really I was brought along to drive everyone home, and I had a blow up down there once because that was the only reason I was there. I have gone other times but it basically ends in a fight at home.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Are you actually willing to get some evidence or just reason on why she behaves that way?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> I think that is what she wants. Last night when we were arguing she kept blaming me for ruining our marriage and messing up our kids. She wants out but wants me to be the one at fault. All conjecture but that is all I can do with someone who doesn't tell me anything.


She is blameshifting. Its a typical wayward tactic. You need to stop listening to her and start acting. Actions are the only thing she will understand. You can only save your marriage when you are prepared to lose it. And ironically it is only when a WS is ready to lose everything do they suddenly reverse course and want to save it.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> I have gone in the past. When we first started going it was OK for the first couple of times but then her and her friends wanted to be right next to the stage and meet the band. But really I was brought along to drive everyone home, and I had a blow up down there once because that was the only reason I was there. I have gone other times but it basically ends in a fight at home.


It is one thing to enjoy music. Women meeting the band!? NFW. Not sure why you were ok with this. It is best to make your stand to stop things like this from even getting started rather than putting the genie bck in the bottle / pants.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Oh she is an argument ninja. She can twist anything and everything back to me. sometimes I almost start to laugh while arguing.

Again, I appreciate all the input. I'll throw something that I find funny that started the fight last night. A little info needed is that we never go out just us two anymore, its always something with one or more of her friends. So we planned a weekend away in a couple of weeks for our anniversary. Her friend got upset because my wife was also having a get together for her birthday. So she invited her friend who is a coworker to come spend Saturday afternoon with us on our 2 day get away. And she didn't understand why I would be upset. Makes me laugh.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

I wasn't OK with it but after I had a blow up at her 3 years ago she held it over my head and everytime I objected she would bring that whole thing out. It is part of the reason I had a breakdown last December.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Oh she is an argument ninja. She can twist anything and everything back to me. sometimes I almost start to laugh while arguing.
> 
> Again, I appreciate all the input. I'll throw something that I find funny that started the fight last night. A little info needed is that we never go out just us two anymore, its always something with one or more of her friends. So we planned a weekend away in a couple of weeks for our anniversary. Her friend got upset because my wife was also having a get together for her birthday. So she invited her friend who is a coworker to come spend Saturday afternoon with us on our 2 day get away. And she didn't understand why I would be upset. Makes me laugh.


Have you ever told her no and when she argues tell her to shut up? I doubt that it will help now but it sounds as if you are describing fitness tests. Which it also sounds like you are failing. Don't feel too bad. Most guys do fail them until they learn to recognize them.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Oh she is an argument ninja. She can twist anything and everything back to me. sometimes I almost start to laugh while arguing.
> 
> Again, I appreciate all the input. I'll throw something that I find funny that started the fight last night. A little info needed is that we never go out just us two anymore, its always something with one or more of her friends. So we planned a weekend away in a couple of weeks for our anniversary. Her friend got upset because my wife was also having a get together for her birthday. So she invited her friend who is a coworker to come spend Saturday afternoon with us on our 2 day get away. And she didn't understand why I would be upset. Makes me laugh.


There is a magical word ........

NO

Stop arguing with her. She is pushing your buttons. 
Learn to calmly but firmly to tell her no and then mean it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Jimmy, below my post is a link to the 180.

I think this would fit the bill for the problems you are going through. Read it, give it a try for a couple weeks and see if it makes you feel more confident about your future.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't see how you could be on this forum and think snooping on the computer is wrong. Do you know how many marriages/families this has saved? You would rather divorce than see what is going on? You are making no sense.

Go to this link now Mr Nice Guy

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Oh she is an argument ninja. She can twist anything and everything back to me. sometimes I almost start to laugh while arguing.
> 
> Again, I appreciate all the input. I'll throw something that I find funny that started the fight last night. A little info needed is that we never go out just us two anymore, its always something with one or more of her friends. So we planned a weekend away in a couple of weeks for our anniversary. Her friend got upset because my wife was also having a get together for her birthday. So she invited her friend who is a coworker to come spend Saturday afternoon with us on our 2 day get away. And she didn't understand why I would be upset. Makes me laugh.


Here's the thing. I think she doesn't want to be alone with you because that would be her cheating on her OM. So she's going to bed early (btw - likely texting him), or she's making plans involving friends. She's isolating herself from you.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Jimmy, as you allude to, your wife's behavior in all this is quite pathetic.

Yes, she is most likely cheating and you need to take that into consideration.
But, another important thing you might want to consider is whether you can go through life with a woman so dumb and superficial. Seriously, a relationship with such a person has to be terribly lonely.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Jimmy said:


> ...she kept blaming me for ruining our marriage and messing up our kids. She wants out but wants me to be the one at fault.


She wants out? Good for you. She's a trainwreck. Document as much of this madness as you can so you'll have your way in court.

Run, man. Fast.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

One reason that you need to find out what is really going on is your health. If she is in a PA with this guy or someone else your health could be at risk due to STDs. You do need to protect yourself.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The second reason you need to find out whats realy going on is to stop her from turning this unhealthy behavior she has on you.

The third reason to find out whats going on is so when she gets serve D paper it won't make you look like the crazy, controlling husband that won't let his women out.


Gathering eveidence is a b!tch and very painfull. Its not for the weak of heart. So go see a lawyer, they'll beable to reccomend a good PI to hire. Get the papers drawn up and be ready to have her served.

Remember filing and getting her served is completely different then finalizing the D, often this tactic should scare your WW straight, before the D is finalized.

The thinking behind all this is when faced with the real consequence for her actions and that it is document and proven, the fog starts to lift and the fantasy fade as reality takes over.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you need to talk to a professional. If your wife isn't having an affair with this guy she is stalking him. I think you need to find out what that might mean. Looks like she may need IC.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Here are some books you need to read:

Every man should read this:

"Married Man Sex Life" Explains why you are ging thruogh this, also has a blog

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

"His Needs Her Needs"

" Love Busters"

"Five Love Languages"

another website:

No More Mr. Nice Guy

You can get a handle on this but it will take some work on your part. And quit fighting with her, it makes you look like a wimp and that disgusts her.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice. I think this relationship is basically over. Huge fight last night, me talking, her screaming, throwing things and trying to hit and kick me, while the kids could hear. Basically she can't trust me because I invaed her privacy again after doing it 6 months ago. Her going to the facebook page is harmless in her opinion. My snooping is the worst thing a person could do, breaking her trust. I know trust is the number 1 thing you need in a marriage and neither of us trust each other. I am suggesting calm plans to try to repair this a little or at least make it a civil break up and her response is basically more screaming.
So the score board is me 100% wrong and the cause of all the problems and her 0% wrong. Everything she has done is innocent and I twisted it into something bad.

thanks again for the advice.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Issue her with D papers immediately.............


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't think it's over - what you hit last night was her fighting to protect her secrecy and her EA and possibly PA. 

She's fighting you because you want to end her affair.

Some call this the fog and blameshifting. Expect more of it. However if you can really shock her like by filing for D - it is possible to get her to realize the stakes here. Right now she is thinking she can cry scream yell and you'll backdown and let her have her affair.

By actually serving her real D papers from a real lawyer - you show her this isn't a little disagreement you're backing down from - it's the end of the family.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Serve her with D papers, if she improves later on you can withdraw the petition.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

One word of caution, if you serve her with D papers, make sure you mean it. She may use that and tell everyone "He wants out of the marriage, it's his fault" and try to get vindication from everyone.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Also get copies of her "dirty" pictures before she deletes them.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

What she really wants is guilt-ridden you not sticking into her affair life anymore. 

File and tell her she can enjoy all the privacy in the world in her new, single life.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

She threatened to go to a lawyer last night. I am in contact with one this morning.

But one question for everyone here.

I like to look at things from all sides. Could everything she has done been harmless? I can't see how she would think the pictures adn then the multiple trips to his facebook page are innocent. Am I missing something?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed and you were hung up and seeing a woman in an all girl band you would already be divorced. She is toxic to you and your children. Time to see a lawyer and stop this madness. Good luck.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

The pictures were never dirty. It just got to be after every show she had to get one or two pics with just her and him. Her friend that always goes with her also had to get pics with another guy from the band. I just don't see how she could innocently remain facebook friends with this guy after everything that happened.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I think this relationship is basically over.
> 
> So the score board is me 100% wrong and the cause of all the problems and her 0% wrong. Everything she has done is innocent and I twisted it into something bad.


Sounds like she's pretty good at gaslighting you. Right now, the 180 is your friend, do some more reading up on that. Even if your marriage can't be saved, it will still help you.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

bryanp said:


> If the roles were reversed and you were hung up and seeing a woman in an all girl band you would already be divorced. She is toxic to you and your children. Time to see a lawyer and stop this madness. Good luck.


I have said that to her many times. I come from a divorced family and I knw how difficult it is as a kid. I guess that is why I have tried to work thru it. 

There is no way I could do what she has done.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> The pictures were never dirty. It just got to be after every show she had to get one or two pics with just her and him. Her friend that always goes with her also had to get pics with another guy from the band. I just don't see how she could innocently remain facebook friends with this guy after everything that happened.


A married woman being drunk next to a band isn't dirty?

Her staying friends is she is fishing, in other words just like every other cheater your wife is wanting to get laid by him/them, if it didn't happen already.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> She threatened to go to a lawyer last night. I am in contact with one this morning.
> 
> But one question for everyone here.
> 
> I like to look at things from all sides. Could everything she has done been harmless? I can't see how she would think the pictures adn then the multiple trips to his facebook page are innocent. Am I missing something?


Yes, it could be harmless, but the chances are low. Would have you exploded in similar way if she glanced into your FB account?

Her reaction is telling. Nobody takes a spouse to a lawyer for things like that. You live under one roof, share the same bed, drink from same milk carton etc. You are not a stranger, you are in your home, she can not expect a veil of secrecy between people who share the laundry.

So instead of addressing your concerns, all she can do is guilt-trip and yell at you. This is because she can not address your concerns with explanations that would be reasonable.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Please stop thinking you are wrong. She's an out of control train wreck and she's taking your family down with her.

And did I read that right? It's not even a real band? Some kind of karyoke rock band? That's kind of embarrasing. She's going to look back at this stage of her life with horror some day.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Today I see that she is facebook friends with him but has me blocked from seeing that she is friends with him.


Yea something is going on. It may be a one-sided crush or maybe she has hooked up with him, but iether way, her blocking her OWN HUSBAND from seeing her "friendship" with this guy online is BAD BAD BAD news. 

The only reason people block things is cause they don't want someone to see it. They want to hide. 



Jimmy said:


> She thinks everything she has done is fine. She destroyed 2 phones and lost $50 another night out of her purse because she gets so drunk.


Your wife sounds like an immature drunk and bratty child. How old is she? She is not acting like a woman committed to her marriage. She's acting like a single party girl who no respect for you or your marriage. Also, she sounds like she has a drinking problem. Her inviting her friend/co worker to your marital weekend getaway is really sh*tty.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

MrK said:


> Please stop thinking you are wrong. She's an out of control train wreck and she's taking your family down with her.
> 
> And did I read that right? It's not even a real band? Some kind of karyoke rock band? That's kind of embarrasing. She's going to look back at this stage of her life with horror some day.


An 8o's cover band that packs the house with women. They are awful mand that makes it so much worse for me. And it is so hard to discuss and even argue with the woman because yes all she does is attack me. And that is what drove me over the edge 6 months ago. She never answered my question, she just attacked me. And last nigh went on and on how she bent over backwards to help me when I was going crazy. And I went completely crazy 6 months ago and it was all related to me thinking she did or was going to do something with this one guy. When I walk away from the argument and think clearly again I am always stunned by how little blame she accepts or by how few questions she actually answers. It is just attack and attack some more.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Get you go into her fb account/messages? Maybe there is more then you think you know.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Don't listen to her. This is the standard script Jimmy.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

keko said:


> Get you go into her fb account/messages? Maybe there is more then you think you know.


She told me I could go look at her messages and I would find nothing. Of course if there was anything bad she would delete it right away.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Download her FB archive. If he's not unfriended/blocked, some deleted messages could still be there.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well of COURSE you won't find anything--she has deleted everything and cleaned up her dirty tracks.

Jimmy--whether the band is good or not is completely irrelevant. The simple fact is your wife is acting shadier than a motherfvcker. 

Don't let her attack you. Keep calm and tell her "I understand you're upset right now but I am also in this marriage and deserve to be treated with respect. Everything should be out in the open."


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I think this relationship is basically over. Huge fight last night, me talking, her screaming, throwing things and trying to hit and kick me, while the kids could hear. Basically she can't trust me because I invaed her privacy again after doing it 6 months ago. Her going to the facebook page is harmless in her opinion. My snooping is the worst thing a person could do, breaking her trust. I know trust is the number 1 thing you need in a marriage and neither of us trust each other. I am suggesting calm plans to try to repair this a little or at least make it a civil break up and her response is basically more screaming.
> So the score board is me 100% wrong and the cause of all the problems and her 0% wrong. Everything she has done is innocent and I twisted it into something bad.
> 
> thanks again for the advice.


Marriage is about Love and Respect. Trust is a by product. People of course can have whatever values they see fit. I see blind trust as naive, lazy and ambivalent. I believe in transparency. Spouses that demand privacy generally have something to hide. They wish to have independent behaviors that they want to keep from their spouse. Affairs thrive in the dark. 

It is comically absurd for someone to say that you have broken their trust because you invaded their privacy where they are actively breaking their marriage vows. A person who needs this type of privacy is not someone to trust. Trust is earned. It is not something that is owed blindly. Trust does not mean you stop looking out for your partner.
Trust does not mean one spouse has secrets form the other. Trust flourishes with transparency and good boundaries. She has none of this.

But I also believe that the marriage trumps all of this nonsense. A spouse has every right IMO to expect transaprency.

The worst thing a person can do is disrpecting your spouse in the manner she is doing. She is acting like a spoiled selfish high school girl. You are her husband. The marriage should be the #1 priority. She should not be a groupie for some band guys. For some reason she feels you can be walked on and treated like this. She is manipulating you. Like with this whole trust fitness test.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You are 100% right and she is 100% wrong.

Maybe she hasn't blown him in the parking lot yet. Maybe.

It is completely wrong for a married woman to become infatuated with another man. Even if that man is Brad Pitt or someone equally unattainable. An infatuation with Brad Pitt just means that she isn't going to actually sleep with him. But it still isn't a good thing for your marriage.

So, you are completely justified in trying to c0ckblock this guy with your wife. You are completely justified in trying to find out exactly how far off the reservation your wife has gone.

You need to implement the 180 right now. As of this moment, your wife is a roommate. Don't treat her as a wife anymore. Go ahead with your lawyer and a separation agreement. If your wife wants to see this man, she needs to move out.

If, by some miracle, she decides she wants to stay in your house, then she needs to write this man a letter of no contact, give it to you, and let you mail it to him.

Good luck.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

Have you guys been in counseling? A talented therapist could really help you understand what's going on here.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> She threatened to go to a lawyer last night. I am in contact with one this morning.
> 
> But one question for everyone here.
> 
> I like to look at things from all sides. Could everything she has done been harmless? I can't see how she would think the pictures adn then the multiple trips to his facebook page are innocent. Am I missing something?


Jimmy,

She isn't going to a lawyer. That's her talking and acting up to enable her continue what she is doing. Her sole focus right now is getting the freedom to go every weekend and throw herself at this guy/band. 

she just wants to do whatever it takes to get you to back off and let her do her thing.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> She told me I could go look at her messages and I would find nothing. Of course if there was anything bad she would delete it right away.


That's because she would delete them right away.

Install a cheap keylogger on her computer.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Don't listen to her. This is the standard script Jimmy.


I just read the Fog. It sounds exactly like what is happening. She denies everything and says I am crazy. 6 months ago I went completely insane, I have the papers to back it up, after i found a picture of the two with the typical pose of the arms around each others shoulders, like every other picture she has of him. I would say there were app 8 pictures like this.

If that can push me to the brink, how could she stay in any contact with him, even if it is "just" looking at pics on his facebook and looking at pics of his daughter. That is wrong.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Hank567 said:


> Have you guys been in counseling? A talented therapist could really help you understand what's going on here.


She won't go to counseling and doesn't like me going to therapy even though I need it and it helps me.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> She threatened to go to a lawyer last night. I am in contact with one this morning.
> 
> But one question for everyone here.
> 
> I like to look at things from all sides. * Could everything she has done been harmless?* I can't see how she would think the pictures adn then the multiple trips to his facebook page are innocent. Am I missing something?


It depends on how you define harmless but no. Just with everything you do know this is far from harmless. She has destroyed her marriage. Her having this obsession is not harmless. Her demanding privacy is not harmless. Her acting like a child is not harmless.

This is above and beyond whether she has had sexual contact with anyone. Her behavior is not harmless. It is unfaithful by definition.

It helps me to break things down this way:

Inappropirate Behavior -> Unfaithfulness -> Cheating

Her starting up this lifestyle seems inappropriate to me. I would have made my stand here. This has been covered.

Her obsessing over this band and possibly others friending them on FB is at least inappropriate but I think unfaithful. For sure her disrespecting you on any of this is by definition unfaithful. 

You are trying to find evidence of cheating. She is fighting for her other life. The single one. Let her have it.

She has no boundaries other than to cut you out. It comes down to yours. My deal breaker is blatant unfaithfulness. Yes cheating is a form of unfaithfulness but is not really the point. She is unfaithful to you and your marriage just with what you have explained. Is there more? Highly likely but I am not sure how much that matters really.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> She won't go to counseling and doesn't like me going to therapy even though I need it and it helps me.


So why does it matter what she likes you doing? She does what she wants. She does not care what you like about her behavior. She is afraid that a counselor will tell you that she is manipulating her. She feels she can control you and continue to cake eat.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> She won't go to counseling and doesn't like me going to therapy even though I need it and it helps me.


I have never understood peopole who are this way..... especially in a couple. What could be wrong with getting help for your marriage?

The mind boggles.

Entropy is right though--she isn't worried about you. She's more concerned about covering up her secret life. That says it all.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> You are 100% right and she is 100% wrong.
> 
> Maybe she hasn't blown him in the parking lot yet. Maybe.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Jimmy;716563 . She wants out but wants me to be the one at fault. All conjecture but that is all I can do with someone who doesn't tell me anything.[/QUOTE said:


> Jimmy, cheaters typically rewrite the script of their marriages. She wants to make you the bad guy in this play. You simply don't have to accept the role. As long as you don't own it, it really doesn't matter whether she thinks it's your "fault" or not.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> She won't go to counseling and doesn't like me going to therapy even though I need it and it helps me.


Jimmy, she's toxic. Run for your life.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Jimmy said:


> I just read the Fog. It sounds exactly like what is happening. She denies everything and says I am crazy. 6 months ago I went completely insane, I have the papers to back it up, after i found a picture of the two with the typical pose of the arms around each others shoulders, like every other picture she has of him. I would say there were app 8 pictures like this.
> 
> If that can push me to the brink, how could she stay in any contact with him, even if it is "just" looking at pics on his facebook and looking at pics of his daughter. That is wrong.


Do any of these things sound familiar to you?

1. You are constantly second-guessing yourself
2. You ask yourself, "Am I too sensitive?" a dozen times a day.
3. You often feel confused and even crazy at work.
4. You're always apologizing to your wife
5. You can't understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren't happier.
6. You frequently make excuses for your wife's behavior to friends and family.
7. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.
8. You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.
9. You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists. 
10. You have trouble making simple decisions.
11. You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.
12. You feel hopeless and joyless.
13. You feel as though you can't do anything right.
14. You wonder if you are a "good enough" husband.

DUDE. Listen to me closely.

YOU. ARE. NOT. CRAZY.

You are being gaslighted. The action is also referred to "crazy making"

It is a highly manipulative form of emotional and mental abuse and it is brutal on someone psyche.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

All of what the previous posters said is true. 

One more thing...

She is abusing you Jimmy... psychologically and emotionally, and if you continue to stand up to her it will go physical. Her flying off the handle last night and smashing things is evidence that she is escalating her behavior. She is isolating you from friends and family in order to keep you under control. This is what an abuser does Jimmy.

You have gotten so used to her abuse in fact that you don't even realise it is abuse.

Divorce this sick person as fast as possible and do what you can to protect your kids. At this point the adultery issue seems moot to me. I'm worried about your physical safety and sanity. 

Oh, and the next time she gets violent and throws things, call the cops on her sorry a*s. Do not let her destroy your property and traumatize your children that way.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I have never understood peopole who are this way..... especially in a couple. What could be wrong with getting help for your marriage?
> 
> The mind boggles.


This answers my main question.

I could be very wrong, but I suspect her obsession is very one-sided. The problem with one-sided affairs is that there is little to pop the fantasy. For example, in another thread on here, a woman's online porn obsessed husband (as in full-time obsessed) entered into an EA with a young woman via FB. It's over but he isn't over the EA--that person, who likely would never give him the time of day IRL, is 'the one who got away.'

I will not rule out the idea that they are in contact in some way. Her behavior certainly supports that possibility.

But let's assume
--they did hook up but it was meaningless for him and he dumped her
--they never hooked up, she tried, and he rejected her

there is still, in these types of infatuations, a powerful obsession that can develop from the rejection (ironically!) to quote from Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass



> _Rejection fuels obsessing._ Affair partners who have been jilted can also become obsessed. They may engage in hang-up phone calls, constant e-mail messages, and drop-in visits at the home or workplace of their lover . . . *Everyone in the extra-marital triangle will be stuck in the past until the affair is clearly over.*


Again, I'm not saying it ever crossed the line into the physical--it's entirely possible but we don't know. It's also possible he hasn't rejected her entirely, but pings her just enough to encourage her.

The only hope I see is for hard-line consequences to her behavior. A line in the sand. Pretend that this man and the band are crack cocaine. It's crack or you. The end.

This is just me. I would have divorce papers drawn up and put them on a table. I would say, we are going to counseling or we are getting a divorce. This obsession you have has taken over our lives and it is destroying my love for you. I want to have a great marriage but we need help.

The reason I really think you need to have at least one session with a counselor is that there may be issues you don't see. Mental instability, a mental disease that she's self-medicating, substance abuse signs, other stuff that is fueling this bizarre situation.

Of course, it could just be a run-of-the-mill affair. In which case the answer is still the same: hard line, serious consequences.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> She won't go to counseling and doesn't like me going to therapy even though I need it and it helps me.


I assume you're still going. Talk with your counselor about gaslighting.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

iheartlife said:


> I suspect her obsession is very one-sided. The problem with one-sided affairs is that there is little to pop the fantasy.


If it's one sided, perhaps he is her Limerent object.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> If it's one sided, perhaps he is her Limerent object.


I've been curious about limerance since I saw you mention it a while back in another thread. Your link led me to google ending limerance, which led to this:



> The only way limerence can be turned off, says Tennov, is by totally removing any hope of an actual relationship. Statements by the LO like "We can still be friends" are not effective in ending limerence, because they permit hope. Only an absolutely final statement ("I don't love you" or "I love someone else") ends all hope and may also end the limerence.


What is needed is for the band member to douse cold water on the whole thing. The question is, how to achieve that and is it achievable. Or is he actually in the picture and fanning the flames.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> If it's one sided, perhaps he is her Limerent object.


This is exactly what I think it is. her married friend that always goes with her has a "crush" on the singer, and its bad. I don't think there has been any or very little physical contact. I know her friend has groped the singer before and my wife jokes in an e-mail I read last year that at least she didn't grope the guy this time. Just a joke she says.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Do any of these things sound familiar to you?
> 
> 1. You are constantly second-guessing yourself
> 2. You ask yourself, "Am I too sensitive?" a dozen times a day.
> ...


I have all of that.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Bottom line is who is the priority in her life? Her family and husband or this band and guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> This is exactly what I think it is. her married friend that always goes with her has a "crush" on the singer, and its bad. I don't think there has been any or very little physical contact. I know her friend has groped the singer before and my wife jokes in an e-mail I read last year that at least she didn't grope the guy this time. Just a joke she says.


Your wife is projecting with her friendship with the GF. She sees the crush on the singer, sees her GF happily going after the singer at every opportunity and she is thinking that the married GF is having loads of fun .. she thinks she can also do the same thing. 

Her seeing nothing wrong with her married GF actively chasing another man is a huge red flag for you. Both are toxic enablers. they are supporting and encouraging unacceptable behavior in each other.

Do you know the GF's husband? What does he have to say about all this? 

If she snaps out of it and agrees to dropping all contact with this band member - the GF has to go too.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> Your wife is projecting with her friendship with the GF. She sees the crush on the singer, sees her GF happily going after the singer at every opportunity and she is thinking that the married GF is having loads of fun .. she thinks she can also do the same thing.
> 
> Her seeing nothing wrong with her married GF actively chasing another man is a huge red flag for you. Both are toxic enablers. they are supporting and encouraging unacceptable behavior in each other.
> 
> ...


Her friend will never stop going until it goes to far. Her friend only has fun at that show, that is a direct quote. And she kept pressuring my wife to go to the show a few weeks ago, and she knows the last time they went there it almost destroyed our marriage. My wife won't stop having contact with her firend either. 37 going on 21 both of them.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> Her friend will never stop going until it goes to far. Her friend only has fun at that show, that is a direct quote. And she kept pressuring my wife to go to the show a few weeks ago, and she knows the last time they went there it almost destroyed our marriage. My wife won't stop having contact with her firend either. 37 going on 21 both of them.


Toxic.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> This is exactly what I think it is. her married friend that always goes with her has a "crush" on the singer, and its bad. I don't think there has been any or very little physical contact. I know her friend has groped the singer before and my wife jokes in an e-mail I read last year that at least she didn't grope the guy this time. Just a joke she says.


You should tell the married owman's husband she's out groping men. 

Your wife and her friend sound like two trashy low-class broads.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Her friend will never stop going until it goes to far. Her friend only has fun at that show, that is a direct quote. And she kept pressuring my wife to go to the show a few weeks ago, and she knows the last time they went there it almost destroyed our marriage. My wife won't stop having contact with her firend either. 37 *going on 21 both of them*.


Pathetic. The entire time I was reading your thread I was thinking your wife was about 23 from the way she is acting.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Her friend will never stop going until it goes to far. Her friend only has fun at that show, that is a direct quote. And she kept pressuring my wife to go to the show a few weeks ago, and she knows the last time they went there it almost destroyed our marriage. My wife won't stop having contact with her firend either. 37 going on 21 both of them.


When I said the GF has to go. I meant that if your wife wakes up and recommits to the marriage, the GF has to go meaning your wife can not be friends with her, can not go out with her, has break all contact with her.

Does the GF's husband know about any of this?


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Jimmy said:


> I like to look at things from all sides. Could everything she has done been harmless? I can't see how she would think the pictures adn then the multiple trips to his facebook page are innocent. Am I missing something?


Even if it was harmless how she is reacting to you is wrong. very wrong.

She is treating you like dirt and want to go party, I say let her.

You are in a toxic marriage, you need to get out because its not going to get better anytime soon. You are in her way and my guess is she doesn't love you anymore (she loves herself way too much for anyone else).


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> Her friend will never stop going until it goes to far. Her friend only has fun at that show, that is a direct quote. And she kept pressuring my wife to go to the show a few weeks ago, and she knows the last time they went there it almost destroyed our marriage. My wife won't stop having contact with her firend either. 37 going on 21 both of them.


I hate to say it, but it's not looking good for the home team... Have you taken some time to process this and determine what your plan and boundary conditions are? (What action will you take to protect your marriage, and at what point are you done)? Otherwise, you're drifting, and are at the mercy of her whims. 

It's hard to do that, but for your own sanity, you need a plan.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I think this relationship is basically over. Huge fight last night, me talking, her screaming, throwing things and trying to hit and kick me, while the kids could hear. Basically she can't trust me because I invaed her privacy again after doing it 6 months ago. Her going to the facebook page is harmless in her opinion. My snooping is the worst thing a person could do, breaking her trust. I know trust is the number 1 thing you need in a marriage and neither of us trust each other. I am suggesting calm plans to try to repair this a little or at least make it a civil break up and her response is basically more screaming.
> So the score board is me 100% wrong and the cause of all the problems and her 0% wrong. Everything she has done is innocent and I twisted it into something bad.
> 
> thanks again for the advice.


I have to tell you Jimmy this reaction is the exact script of a guilty spouse.

She`s cheating or trying to and is attempting to scare you into backing off.

You`re best bet is to call her bluff, serve her divorce papers(you can always halt the process before a judge gets them)
Separate financials, cancel any credit cards she has access to.

Be a hardass and start threatening her cozy little life and you`ll maybe get somewhere with her.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> I like to look at things from all sides. Could everything she has done been harmless? I can't see how she would think the pictures adn then the multiple trips to his facebook page are innocent. Am I missing something?


No, not at all.
Her reaction is all telling.
She`s up to some inappropriate **** or you never would have gotten the over the top response she gave you.

She`s guilty, of what exactly you have yet to discover but she`s done something or is engaged in doing it now.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> An 8o's cover band that packs the house with women. They are awful mand that makes it so much worse for me. And it is so hard to discuss and even argue with the woman because yes all she does is attack me. And that is what drove me over the edge 6 months ago. She never answered my question, she just attacked me. And last nigh went on and on how she bent over backwards to help me when I was going crazy. And I went completely crazy 6 months ago and it was all related to me thinking she did or was going to do something with this one guy. When I walk away from the argument and think clearly again I am always stunned by how little blame she accepts or by how few questions she actually answers. It is just attack and attack some more.


Absolute standard from the cheaters script!!


Dude, start digging.

You need to get to the bottom of what exactly is going on.
In other words if she thinks you invaded her privacy before she`d go ape**** over what you need to do now.

VAR
GPS
Keylogger
Cell/Text trace

Find out what she`s so vehemently protecting and open it wide.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Y`know Jimmy.

I`ve been re-reading this thread.

If you want this woman (Honestly I don`t see why you would) you need her to do some things

-Total transparency
-Go NC with the crazy groping toxic friend forever.
-Never see this band again
-She goes no where without you for the foreseeable future.

If she can`t agree to these things divorce her.
Her description is skanky, I`d divorce my wife if she began acting in this manner.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Jimmy come on man, lets say she hasn't screwed another guy, band guy or anyone else, and she is just out haveing fun ok.

Is this the kind of marriage you want you kids to use as an examble? Is this the kind of marriage you want to be in?

You are no longer her priority and that alone would be good grounds to divorce, in the most simplest terms, "people grow apart". In your case your WW has not growing with you.

Do you want to be in a marriage were you are no longer the focus? You sit here second guessing your self, when I can tell you that her behavior will snowball. Now its the band, years from now it will be something else that will continue to take the focus off her marriage.

Man. I have been through this, and it lasted 13 years out of a 20 year marriage. Do you realy want to go through another decade living with a spouse with this kind of behavior? Let me tell you from experience you will not like the out come.

Its been 3yrs so far, it will me the same crap year after year, and the ugly truth is there will be more men...men after men. 

Trust me when I tell you 3 yrs is long enough and IMO its grounds for divorce..I think they call it allienation of affection.

So pleae file and have her served, and hopefully this tactic will bring her around, if not at least you can show your kids a good examble of a healthy relationship when you find someone that will focus an you, respect you, and make you a priority.


I've been down this road, and its not pretty for you or the kids, as it snowballs into something very dangerous for your self distructing wife.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Jimmy said:


> I have all of that.


Jimmy,

Have we nailed the bullseye enough times to have your undivided attention now?

I have read thousands upon thousands upon thousands of stories... They are all sickeningly similiar. There is one part of your story is clear and it is on the very far side of extreme... 

Lemme cut straight through the sh*t...

Infidelity or potential infidelity is a sidebar to the real issue now...

You are being abused. This is serious stuff brother. This is not mild abuse either, With your history we are talking life and death serious. 

We as men have a very hard time coming to grips with this. Most men suffer in silence afraid to admit to themselves and to other people that they are being abused. 

Your mind is being poisoned, the damage cant be measured right now. But, much of what your putting yourself through can not be reversed. You've already had at least one major break down, I don't think you understand the implication of that. 

Set aside your pride, your own denial, rationalizations and minimizations... Whether she is doing it intentionally or not, she is a class "A" abuser and your mental health and sanity are in very real danger. 

Listen, don't blow this off. 

If nothing else gets through I want you to hear what I just said.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Thanks for all the input. Update.

Just got done with an hour and a half fight.

She doesn't want a divorce, for the kids, she does hate me.

In fact she could beat the **** out of me right now.

Won't go to counseling, thinks that is a waste of time.

Wants to work it out with counseling.

Despises me right now.

Wants me to come home tonight for the kids.

Will, then won't then will be polite to me in front of the kids.

What I did, spying on her after I did it 6 months ago is the worst thing ever, in her opinion.

Won't accept any of the blame for anything.

Will never go to the show or go to the guys facebook page again.

Doesn't see why it was wrong. Says she has no crush or ever had any contact physical contact with him.

On and on like that. I did take the advice given here and not back down. I am trying to make her accept her part of the problem. She just kept getting angrier and angrier at me.

She said I make her feel like the worst person ever. On and on with stuff like that. It is one extreme to the other. No guilt, then sarcasticly all the guilt.

Again I am not backing down. I just don't get the anger, if there was nothing there. Everything she does makes her look guilty of something. But I am going to be polite to her in front of the kids and the house is big enough for us to stay far away and not look odd to the kids. It is not going to last long until we get a divorce though, but this will give me time to get stuff in order and sock away some hidden cash.

Again an innocent person doesn't normally act this way. I never accussed her of anything I just told her it bothered me and that makes her feel like a ***** and hate me more than anything. She can't believe I would take something so minor and take it to ruin 16 years of marriage. I am the one willing to go to counseling and I didn't think what she did was something that we would have to divorce over. The woman feels like she should have complete privacy and why would she need that?


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> Will never go to the show or go to the guys facebook page again.


My gut reaction:

do.not.believe.her.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Ask your wife how she would feel if she were in your shoes and the roles were reversed. Would it be fine for you to be out late taking pictures with other women etc...


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

No, don't argue, it's pointless. Get her served, when she'll see it's for real, chances are she'll drop this sh*t circus.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Her anger is a good sign you doing something right. I hope your undersatnd why?

Good job in getting in the way of her behavior that was deteriorating the marriage


Remember now that she has her babysitter back, she will be back to her old ways. Alls you got was lip service, so for now do not expect a change, what you need from her is action.

You are very wise in preparing for the worst, so start saving and work your plan.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She's really something.


It's going to be hard as she is going to try everything to get you to loose it and be the bad guy.

Stick to this idea: I am fighting for my family and marriage. There is a threat to it now. You had agree to stop going. To stop coming home drunk. To focus on the family. You hired the agreement fr a while, but then you chose going there over your family. I'm not looking to be mean, controlling, or punishing. I'm fighting to keep you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

When people get defensive like she is and going all crazy, it is usually because they know they are in the wrong. Otherwise, why act all nutty?

My advice is to remain calm. LEAD by example. Don't let her bait you into fights/arguments and don't yell or raise your voice. 

if she comes at you tell her "How would you feel if I were out going to see rock bands and having my picture taken with them every few weeks? How would you feel if I were looking up some married guy online constantly? How would you feel if my guy friend was talking about groping said dude?" 

Just flip the script on her. 

She wouldn't be happy if you were doing those things, trust me.

Stand your ground w/o stooping to her level. DO NOT waiver from your position.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> I'm fighting to keep you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds kinda like fighting to keep cancer.

She fu*king evil and she's up to no good.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I don't see why fight for keeping her even. She hangs firmly onto the OP, her intention is to cake-eat while having her groupie fun every weekend.

She feels the control is slipping from her hands, hence all the rage. Doing the best defense is good offense thing, it probably worked many times in the past.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Notice how she doesn't want the divorce. For the kids, alright. Do you think she'd kept it for the kids if she was independently wealthy?

No, she hates your guts, but likes your money.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She is raging because she is an abuser. That's what abusers do.

Next time she goes off on you physically you should call the cops. 

File for divorce and do a hard 180 on her. Do not speak to her unless its about the kids or household business. Sleep in another room and treat her like furniture. If she starts a fight, smile and turn around and walk away. Keep a VAR on you at all times to record her verbal assaults. Always remain calm and in control.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Next time she goes off on you physically you should call the cops.


That can be dangerous. As a rule, if the cops come, it's the guy who leaves in handcuffs. Best not to go down that road.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Okay, so when she starts hitting him and kicking him what does he do?

That's bunk. I've personally seen women get hauled off for DM against their husbands.

This is why he needs the VAR. Or plant a video camera somewhere.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> The woman feels like she should have complete privacy and why would she need that?


So she can continue to (attempt to) screw around on you.

All she`s doing is gas lighting and crazy making.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Hank567 said:


> That can be dangerous. As a rule, if the cops come, it's the guy who leaves in handcuffs. Best not to go down that road.


This is a great point Bandit.
I`ve seen more than one innocent husband dragged to jail, probation, fines, and anger management counseling for years when he`s called the cops on his abusive wife.

More reason to keep a VAR on you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> She is raging because she is an abuser. That's what abusers do.
> 
> Next time she goes off on you physically you should call the cops.
> 
> File for divorce and do a hard 180 on her. Do not speak to her unless its about the kids or household business. Sleep in another room and treat her like furniture. If she starts a fight, smile and turn around and walk away. Keep a VAR on you at all times to record her verbal assaults. Always remain calm and in control.


Great advise. OP is just beginning to get it.

Do not fight with your wife. Talk, discuss yes. When she starts
getting angry/unreasonable, hold up your hand, tell her you will not fight with her, if she wants to talk when she can control herself great. 

In the mean time do the 180.. Be nice and friendly but leave her alone and only respond to family business and the kids. Here is a link:

The Healing Heart: The 180

I can tell by what you are still doing wrong you haven't gone to this list. If your family is important to you, shut up and start leading/reading.

Here are some books you need to read:

Every man should read this:

"Married Man Sex Life" Explains why you are ging thruogh this, also has a blog

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

"His Needs Her Needs"

" Love Busters"

"Five Love Languages"

another website:

No More Mr. Nice Guy

You can get a handle on this but it will take some work on your part. And quit fighting with her, it makes you look like a wimp and that disgusts her.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

:iagree:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You are argueing fighting with her like a girl. Stop it now or kiss your family goodbye.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

Update.

I got an e-mail from my wife saying she wants to move on and never talk about the band or the guy again. She is thru with all of it. She apologized for her behavior last fall and her behavior on her computer. She is going to communicate more and be less controlling. This is the outcome I wanted. The advice on here definitely helped. When we had our argument I would not back down, apologize or let her say she did nothing wrong. I never backed down and I let her know I was willing to end it. I haven't won a fight with her in a long time. She always turned it around on me until I had to give in to move on. Not this time and the advice on here is why. Thank you all.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Good, but stay vigilant. Keep checking her texts/emails/fb when she is not around so she doesn't run anything underground.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> Update.
> 
> I got an e-mail from my wife saying she wants to move on and never talk about the band or the guy again. She is thru with all of it. She apologized for her behavior last fall and her behavior on her computer. She is going to communicate more and be less controlling. This is the outcome I wanted. The advice on here definitely helped. When we had our argument I would not back down, apologize or let her say she did nothing wrong. I never backed down and I let her know I was willing to end it. I haven't won a fight with her in a long time. She always turned it around on me until I had to give in to move on. Not this time and the advice on here is why. Thank you all.


Please go read the stuff in chap's longer email that he just posted. It will give you even more tips on how to continue with this new way of being.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Great start Jimmy. But don't change back into a doormat. Maintain this frame and continue to verify that she is going to keep to her word. Now you see its all bluster. Don't be fooled again. Respect goes both ways.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Don't celebrate yet. Watch her actions over the next few days to see if she has really changed her tune. I'm not buying it.

You need to find a way to get her into marriage counseling. She said some pretty awful things to you, and you and her need to get to the bottom of her ambivalence towards you. If you don't, you'll be back here in a month with the same problems.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> Update.
> 
> I got an e-mail from my wife saying she wants to move on and never talk about the band or the guy again. She is thru with all of it. She apologized for her behavior last fall and her behavior on her computer. She is going to communicate more and be less controlling. This is the outcome I wanted. The advice on here definitely helped. When we had our argument I would not back down, apologize or let her say she did nothing wrong. I never backed down and I let her know I was willing to end it. I haven't won a fight with her in a long time. She always turned it around on me until I had to give in to move on. Not this time and the advice on here is why. Thank you all.


This is just one step in your life.

Your wife treated you the way she did and acted the way she did because she had/has little respect for you.
You setting and holding this boundary regardless of her ranting mania has gained you a smidgen of that respect back.

Change that dynamic, hold to those boundaries.

Read this...

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

You`re not out of the woods Jimmy.
If you want this to work you`re going to have to piss her off even more.

-She has to dump her toxic cheater friends, complete no contact.
-She has no GNO`s or outings without you for the foreseeable future until you`re comfortable with it.
-Counseling might not be a bad idea but that`s an individual choice

Give her these boundaries in the same way you gave her the last one and watch her freak out all over again.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Sorry buddy, I'm not trying to piss in your cornflakes. This is fools gold.

This is part of the script too and we should have warned you. She is attempting to manage you, shes changing gears. Her tried and true manipulation techniques didn't work even when she turned up the heat... Which she did. Bigtime. You didn't bite, now she's regrouping. Sorry brother, nothing has changed. She's tickling your tummy a bit. Don't roll over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Sorry buddy, I'm not trying to piss in your cornflakes. This is fools gold.
> 
> This is part of the script too and we should have warned you. She is attempting to manage you, shes changing gears. Her tried and true manipulation techniques didn't work even when she turned up the heat... Which she did. Bigtime. You didn't bite, now she's regrouping. Sorry brother, nothing has changed. She's tickling your tummy a bit. Don't roll over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I tend to agree with this. It is hard to say for absolute certain where her head is at the moment, but it is one of the most extreme about faces I have heard of in a long time.

She goes from kicking and screaming that she hates you. Everything that has gone wrong in the world is all your fault. She on the other hand is an angel and did nothing wrong. Only staying for the kids.

THEN

She is wrong and apologetic. She will never act this way again.

Hell - this is causing me to turn around and watch my own back - feels like something is lurking just outside my vision.

I sincerely hope she is for real. If so - congrats and good job.

But watch your wife carefully. Remember - Actions not words. Don't argue with her but continue to try to get into MC with her. And watch your back.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah..

Make sure she hasn't taken an insurance policy out on you. And you might want to adopt a dog from the pound to taste any food she prepares for you over the next few weeks.


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

I am not settling back in like nothing happened and she is still angry. She is the type of person who takes a while to get over things. I am using this time to also prepare in case something explodes in the future. I am getting all the financials in order and try to stash a few bucks. The plus side is we do have some new boundaries and I think she might have finally taken a look in the mirror about a few of the things she did. She tried and tried to put all the blame on me but I would not let her. But having some new boundaries will help Again, I think she might have finally figured out that stalking this guy is not what a married woman should do. During the argument she finally said she does not know why she went to his page all the time. Maybe , just maybe she realized that doing that is wrong and she needs to stop to keep her life and her family. But my guard is up and I am prepared to leave if stuff goes bad. Thanks you to everyone for your support, it really helped me get a little control of the problem.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

She needs to back off fb and drop her toxic friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If it comes to it, you don't leave,thats considered abandonment when it comesto child custody. Make sure if she breaks up her family you willseek at least 50/50 custody.

It wouldn't hurt to leave this page on the computer for her to see:

Divorce Advice for Men and Fathers | Men and Divorce | Cordell and Cordell | DadsDivorce.com

You need to be reading it to by the way.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah..
> 
> Make sure she hasn't taken an insurance policy out on you. And you might want to adopt a dog from the pound to taste any food she prepares for you over the next few weeks.


Dayum Bandit, I got two pound puppies myself - love those dogs. If he needs a taste tester he might consider getting a cat instead. :rofl:


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## TorontoBoyWest (May 1, 2012)

Watch her actions now Jimmy.

Realize that this might just be a ploy to have you ease off. If she is in fact obsessing on the loser no one can flip it off like a switch. Its not how it works.

You did well to bring in a hard line. You have to continue that. 

No excuses on your part in making her aware of the consequences of deceiving you.

Good Job.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Jimmy,

I really hope that one of the boundaries you set up is to have no GNO with the toxic GF who started all of the cover band garbage.

Good job man.

Count and bandit.45 - I vote for a canary. Reaction time is quicker.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> Jimmy,
> 
> Count and bandit.45 - I vote for a canary. Reaction time is quicker.


Yeah but you can't feed soup to a canary. :scratchhead:


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Every man should read this:
> 
> "Married Man Sex Life" Explains why you are ging thruogh this, also has a blog
> 
> Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


Absolutely. It'll also explain why she caved, finally.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Jimmy said:


> During the argument she finally said she does not know why she went to his page all the time.


Yeah. My wife "didn't know why" she did some of the things she did either. Maybe because...oh, I don't know...She liked it?


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

MrK said:


> Yeah. My wife "didn't know why" she did some of the things she did either. Maybe because...oh, I don't know...She liked it?


Without a doubt. She told me about his religious views, his politics and it was all the exact opposite of what she is. So that is why it made no sense to stay friends or visit his page everyday. I feel very confident that this was a mostly one sided crush, but it is still wrong. When you make your husband go crazy, you might need to stop it. We will see. But I am preparing in case stuff goes bad again.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Strip your life down to the bare essentials, get your finances in order, know your legal rights and be ready to end it at any time. Its not over yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> She fu*king evil and she's up to no good.


This made :rofl: Pit.

Jimmy--it's good she wrote you that email. Positive step in the right direction. Now stay firm on your boundary/consequences. It's the only way.

Her saying she "doesn't know why" she was visiting his page often is a cop-out. Everyone knows why they do everything. 

It does sound like she has a drinking problem so at some point you may want to bring up that issue. Cause a 37 year old woman getting so drunk off her tree she is losing money and her phone on the regular is not healthy/right/mature/responsible. It's also tacky as hell.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah... this woman is a real catch. Total bimbo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jimmy (May 1, 2012)

I reread the e-mail and she did not apologize for hitting me and screaming profanities at me while the kids could hear. She has said 2 words to me since the e-mail as she said she needs some time to get back to normal. And frankly her apology isn't very sincere. This is a woman who hates me because I went on her computer and looked at her history, thats all. I'm not caving on any of this. She hates me well I don't like her either. I'm not going to talk to her and try to get things back to normal. Everything she does screams guilty of something and she won't admit to anything. I thank everyone for the advice, I see how in the past she has manipulated me into giving in. It's not going to happen this time. I am ready to file at any time, I love my kids but this hell isn't good for me or the kids.


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## TorontoBoyWest (May 1, 2012)

Jimmy said:


> I reread the e-mail and she did not apologize for hitting me and screaming profanities at me while the kids could hear. She has said 2 words to me since the e-mail as she said she needs some time to get back to normal. And frankly her apology isn't very sincere. This is a woman who hates me because I went on her computer and looked at her history, thats all. I'm not caving on any of this. She hates me well I don't like her either. I'm not going to talk to her and try to get things back to normal. Everything she does screams guilty of something and she won't admit to anything. I thank everyone for the advice, I see how in the past she has manipulated me into giving in. It's not going to happen this time. I am ready to file at any time, I love my kids but this hell isn't good for me or the kids.


She needs serious IC IMO


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jimmy said:


> I reread the e-mail and she did not apologize for hitting me and screaming profanities at me while the kids could hear. She has said 2 words to me since the e-mail as she said she needs some time to get back to normal. And frankly her apology isn't very sincere. This is a woman who hates me because I went on her computer and looked at her history, thats all. I'm not caving on any of this. She hates me well I don't like her either. I'm not going to talk to her and try to get things back to normal. Everything she does screams guilty of something and she won't admit to anything. I thank everyone for the advice, I see how in the past she has manipulated me into giving in. It's not going to happen this time. I am ready to file at any time, I love my kids but this hell isn't good for me or the kids.


It's called entitled.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> It's called entitled.


Yeah, and its getting out of hand in our society.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Don't doubt yourself. I don't see any other way. Stay Strong.


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