# Lack of affection from Wife



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

I noticed it, finally, in October of 2013. My W and I were mostly roommates that slept in the same bed. Our 22nd wedding anniversary was mid-October and my W unilaterally decided that we should just stay in instead of going out and celebrating our anniversary like we'd done the previous 21.

It was a devastating blow to me. She said she did this because she knows how stressed our budget is...yet she'd just gone out with her girlfriend for dinner the weekend before. She'd just had a mani/pedi the day prior. WTF?

It started me looking, as if under a microscope, what led up to this rejection. In October 2013, we had sex twice...my birthday and her birthday, no sex on our anniversary (she wasn't feeling "right"), and no sex for the rest of the month.

Looking back, we had our third, and surprise son in 2008. Prior to that, we had two other children born in 1997 and 1999, so we were ALMOST home free. Almost at the point where we could go out together as a couple, be husband and wife. But we had to start all over again. When our son was born, she had the Mirena IUD put in because, even when she was opened up from the C-Section, she still did not want the permanency of a tubal ligation. Prior to conception of this child, she'd been birth control-free since 1999. She had the Mirena removed last month. Not sure if the lost libido and affection had anything to do with the hormones the Mirena put into her, as compared to au-naturale prior to that conception...

We became exclusive in 1988 when she was 18 and I was 19. We married in 1991. I cannot pinpoint when she stopped being affectionate to me. I spent a lot of time rather disconnected, busy being the breadwinner for the family - she's been a SAHM since 2004. But I do know that there was a time that she love to touch me. I do not mean sexually. I mean sitting next to me on the couch, even though there's a love seat next to it. She used to grab my hand when we walked, and when I was driving. She used to rub my neck on long drives (I'm the driver in the house). She used to kiss me when she'd walk by, or just reach out and touch me. She used to come to my office (I work out of the house) with coffee. Make me a sandwich at lunch time. She used to just come in and give me big smooch and walk away.

All I discovered after our 22nd anniversary is that she does none of this any more. Since that time, I've read His Needs Her Needs (and asked her to read it too, but she has not). I've read Married Man Sex Live Primer, and No More Mr. Nice Guy. And I've implemented much of what I've learned. And she's responded affirmatively. Our sexual intimacy has increased dramatically, and it's been very, very good sex. But I still can't get over how lonely I am.

If I don't shift myself in our bed to spoon her, then there will be no affection that night. The only way she will touch me or kiss me is when I stand right there in front of her and I touch/kiss her. She does toss out the well-meaning "I love you" to me now and again, to which I reciprocate with the obligatory "I love you, too".

Last night while watching our favorite show, Downton Abbey, instead of sitting in my love seat alone and her laying on her sofa, I moved to sit so she could put her feet in my lap, which she welcomed. It made her visibly happy. I rubbed her feet, calves. Sometime in the middle of doing this, she grabbed her laptop and focused on it. I stopped rubbing her feet. Ten minutes or so later, our dog came over to her, wanting to be in her lap. She was happy as could be to move her laptop to the floor and give affirmative attention to a dog. But she can't (or won't) do that for me.

The night before last we'd gone for a drive to get gas (it was mostly an excuse for us to just steal some time for ourselves), to a place about 20 miles away. Great time for us to just chat as we enjoy each others company without a chatty 5 year old. She spent the entire drive on her iPhone...she's more interested in her FB friends than in me...I guess. My hand was right there on the center console. I could have grabbed hers, and normally, I do. But not today. As such, there was no hand holding. And I just watch trees fly by me. Not the best time for me.

Last night at bed time, as soon as she got into bed, she announced a splitting head ache. She asked me to rub her neck, and I did, as she laid across my chest. The dog jumped into bed after about 10 minutes, and she immediately made accommodations for her, and she gave her affirmative affection. But the whole time I was paying attention only to her, she gave me none. She fell asleep. I stopped. Eventually she rolled onto her side, as she always does, expecting me to move in and spoon her. This time I did not oblige her. I'm worn out on giving her affection, when she won't reciprocate.

I've talked with her about her iPHone. Her laptop in bed. I really don't want to talk to her about it again...I never bring my phone or laptop to bed. Never. Bed time used to be my favorite time of day...not because of sex (which is great when we have it), but because it USED to be time devoted to each other. Now, it's me devoted to her, and her to something else. 

She's not having an affair - not an EA nor a PA. This is indisputable. And she's not HAD an affair. As she said, when I brought up my unhappiness about where our marriage had settled over the past 5 years, she had just settled that this is the way it would be until our older children were out of the house...that was acceptable to her?

Since October, I've been on a major communication-improvement regimen (I'd been locking my feelings up for a couple of decades, classic Nice-Guy). And I'm really just tired of talking about my feelings, as she doesn't seem to really want me to talk about that which she's begged me to talk for 20 years. 

So...what's a lonely guy to do? Just tell her? I don't want to be passive. I don't want to cut off affection to her. Any thoughts the TAM community?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I see a couple of possibilities, but to address it I think it might be time to ask her to evaluate her priorities and tell her you'll hold her accountable for them. Ask her if her FB friends, her phone, and her laptop are more important to her than her relationship with you. If she says no, let her know what you need to see in order to believe her. 

If she comes back with accusations that you're trying to control her, simply let her know that you're not telling her what to do. You're simply communicating what YOU believe about what you are seeing. Ditto for kiddo. Yes, your child is a huge priority, for both of you, but it's not a reason to neglect other top priorities. We all make time for the things that are important to us, and she is no exception. 

If she continues to use laptop and phone to excess, you'll have to decide what route to take. You can try the 180 (you'll find links on this site). You can move out. You can stop paying for internet or phone access. Whatever.... your boundaries should be what YOU will accept in your life, not what you plan to make others do. They're free to choose, and you're free to respond accordingly. 

With this in mind, however, it might be useful to consider that she may have entered pre-menopause, which can have drastic effects on a woman's sexuality and moods even if they aren't having other symptoms. 

If you discover when you talk that the FB friends and phone are means of fending off negative thinking and feeling like she has a purpose and connections with other people, a visit with a good doctor who is familiar with women's health as a specialty might be in order.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Here's what I would do. First I would stop with the neck rubs and feet rubbing and open your mouth and tell her that in your opinion, the dog and the lap top seem to have top billing and your coming in a distant third because of it and your not happy about it. She isn't a mind reader and she needs a nudge in the right direction. If she gets angry, then you let her know that's how you feel and want changes. You shouldn't have to come after a dog or computer and let her know that she has to top slot in your life and you want the same.


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> Ask her if her FB friends, her phone, and her laptop are more important to her than her relationship with you. If she says no, let her know what you need to see in order to believe her.
> 
> If she comes back with accusations that you're trying to control her, simply let her know that you're not telling her what to do. You're simply communicating what YOU believe about what you are seeing. Ditto for kiddo. Yes, your child is a huge priority, for both of you, but it's not a reason to neglect other top priorities. We all make time for the things that are important to us, and she is no exception.
> 
> ...


I've thought about pre-menopause...I am fairly certain that the Mirena hormonal IUD was a bad thing for her (and me). It's out now, and she's going in sometime this month for an endometrial ablation as she no longer "needs" her periods (and I had a vasectomy at the end of October). Sexually, she's hot as can be, when I get her going...now that she's off the IUD and taking no BC at all, she actually DOES get quite horny just before her period and during ovulation, something that had gone away while using the IUD. She just doesn't pursue me. Though she DOES respond to my pursuing HER. Very much so. 

Regarding our 5 year old...The night before last, while in bed, just talking, she told me that our son had asked her why she spent so much time with Daddy. Her response - because I love your Daddy. His reply, don't you love me? Ouch...this implied to me that she is feeling that she's neglecting our son. So yesterday AM I had a talk with my son about how he's feeling, attention wise. I asked him about what his my W had told me about what he said, and he said that he was feeling fine, that he wasn't missing us, and that he never said that to his mom...??? I now he's only 5, so did he not really understand what I was asking him? I would think if he could have this conversation with his mom just the day prior then he'd be able to convey that same feeling to me, but he couldn't. Even when I told him that he's not in trouble, I just wanted to know how he was feeling, and then he laughed and asked me why I keep asking, finishing with "funny Daddy". So, did my Wife just make that whole piece up as a passive way of telling me she wants less time with me and more time with him?

She has said that she feels like time with our boys is slipping away. We have a Junior and a freshman...

In July she started up with Direct Sales multilevel marketing business, so she could start to earn some money for the family. It does require use of social media to promote, and she DOES use FB to do that. But it's only a minute piece of what she spends on FB...very, very small amount of time is for this. 

I dropped FB several months ago because, well, these people pretty much are NOT really my "friends," they are people I used to know, mostly. I don't put time into them, I put time into my family. She says I'm just being antisocial. SOmewhere in between her use an mine may lie reasonable...IDK.

I've already started the MAP found in Married Man Sex Life Primer. WOrking out, losing weight. But also in No MOre Mr. Nice guy, perhaps I really do need to start to implement that as well...no matter what I do for her, she's not going to meet my needs, so I need to perhaps find my own way to get my needs met...she may have to end up playing catch-up.

I'm thinking that our marriage will take a dip in quality for a while before it gets built back up. I'm a little scared to do this.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

john1068 said:


> She just doesn't pursue me.
> 
> *But she used to. So this is a mental thing, most likely tied to her preoccupation with the boys and work. *
> 
> ...


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Obviously physical touch isn't one of her needs. 

You've been working hard at your job over these years and became disconnected and those 20 or so years of doing that can't be overcome in a few months.

If you haven't done so already, I'd talk to her and start by acknowledging that you haven't been the best husband. Then tell her that the roommate situation isn't acceptable (although the argument is weak since you guys have sex). Then ask her what she thinks will improve the situation. If she has suggestions, implement them (even if you don't agree). If she has no suggestions, suggest marriage counseling and if she doesn't want to go, go alone "because this marriage is important enough for me to go and won't survive if it isn't fixed".


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Perhaps after 20 years of you being disconnected, she's gotten out of the habit of relying on you for affection and emotional intimacy. It can take time to re-build those old habits. It will also take honesty and commitment from you. She might very well not trust that your new-found attention and engagement will be lasting, and may therefore be unwilling to jump onboard with this new program for a while. It may simply take time for her to come back to you, since she's been largely on her own for so long and has filled the gaps in her emotional life with things other than you. 

Talk to her. Let her know that you've realized you haven't been the best husband. Admit that you don't even know when she stopped being affectionate because you weren't really paying attention. Tell her you want your marriage to be different now. Ask her what you can do to help re-build a more loving and affectionate marriage. Discuss what the two of you can do together to create a marriage that works for both of you. Read _His Needs, Her Needs_ together, if you haven't done so. Seek MC if you need some extra help getting to the bottom of all this.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

john1068 said:


> She's not having an affair - not an EA nor a PA. This is indisputable. And she's not HAD an affair.


I'm sorry but how do you know this? I only ask because I too came here originally for the exact reasons you just posted. I started like you, asking the hows and whys I wasnt getting affection from my wife. I got all the excuses you did.

I made a post saying pretty much the exact same thing I just quoted you on. My wife wasnt having an affair...it was impossible and no way she could pull it off without me finding out. I told people to trust me on that.......

Well, I come here now mostly to be on the Coping with Infidelity board. Turns out the reason I was in the situation you are in now was because she did have an affair with someone and she admitted to shutting me out of her heart. I always initiated sex, and when I got it, it was just duty sex. No passion, didnt feel loved, what little affection I got was just to shut me up from complaining. We are in R and she knows I can leave her anyday. Oh she loves touching, kissing, sex, and affection now. I get it all the time now.

My point is, dont do what I did and say there isnt a chance in hell she isnt having an affair. I'm not saying she is, all I'm saying is I once stood where you are, didnt think it was possible for my wife to be cheating. Not just from a moral standpoint, but where would she find the time/shes not good enough to hide it. Well, eventually it was her stupidity that got her busted. Just keep your eyes open.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Hawx20 said:


> P.S. - for the record, i know she is not having an affair. It would be nearly impossible for her to pull off without raising suspicions for various reasons so I scratched that off the list of why she is LD with me.


This was from a thread I started asking about how not to take it personal when your wife doesnt want sex. She had a PA 10 months prior to that post and had been carrying on as an EA up to dday which was 2 months after that post.

Like I said, I'm not trying to scare you and tell you she is having an affair, just keep your eyes open to all possibilities, even if they dont seem possible.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> This was from a thread I started asking about how not to take it personal when your wife doesnt want sex. She had a PA 10 months prior to that post and had been carrying on as an EA up to dday which was 2 months after that post.
> 
> Like I said, I'm not trying to scare you and tell you she is having an affair, just keep your eyes open to all possibilities, even if they dont seem possible.


How did you find out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Thound said:


> How did you find out?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dumb luck and dumb wife basically. She had just come home from the gym and we were talking in the kitchen. My 5 year old daughter was standing in a funny pose while watching tv. I showed my wife and she said "Take a picture!".

I didnt see my phone anywhere so I grabbed hers to take a pic. I turned it on and there was a text from the guy saying he missed her.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

I do not have the answer for you, but I can tell you this: my marriage began WITH affection and 7 1/2 years later there was none. 

I finally got the I Love You but... speech Oct 31st. 

I do not know if this is why my wife showed no affection but clearly she lost attraction for me. I changed my ways, worked out, bought nice clothes, asserted myself more and

no, i did not 'win' my wife back. We will be divorced in about a month, however I am now seeing the nicest girl i have ever known ( we were friends in college and i recently moved back to both our hometowns-- i knew she was super nice, generous and understanding so asked to see her after 15 years as friends and unexpectedly developed into more), 

and bonus plan-- she cannot keep her hands off me. makes me feel really good, all the time.


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