# This is such a mess



## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

I don't even know where to begin, but I'm at a loss. 

My husband and I fell in love early in our lives. When we became adults we met again, and had a very intimate, playful relationship for 3 yrs. Before we got married, we had sex Atleast 3-4 times a week, and usually every weekend

He was in jail for a few months because he made some poor choices when he was 18 and failed to take responsibility for his actions. It finally caught up with him. 

When he got out, it was as if he was 18 all over again. Parties every night with friends, never coming home, and it put a strain on our marriage. We had a very different sex life as well. He never misses me open mouth, and says he simply "doesn't like it" when before I couldn't get him away from me long enough to take a breath. 

There's no more foreplay. Maybe 3 times a year he will allow me to give him oral but usually he tells me to get off him and that he's not in the mood. 

He used to pull me on his lap and hug onto me. If I were to crawl on his lap and sit facing him now he gets completely irritated. 

So our sex life? If I ask him, he tells me he's too tired. Every single time. I used to not ask but try playful ways of initiating, and I got sick and tired of feeling unwanted and undesired that I quit, because I would become emotional. This simply isn't my husband! 

We have sex maybe once a month or every other mo th. Sometimes we will have sex two or three times a weekend and then not have sex for 2 or 3 months. I can't initiate it. If I do he gets completely pissed off. 

A year and a half a go I got fed up and I threatened to leave him because I felt that he did not love me the way I loved him and the way he used to love me. I told him how he made me feel and that I was unhappy. He started crying and told me he didn't know what was wrong with him and that he just didn't feel like it. I was going thru fertility treatment at the time as we were SUPPOSED to be trying to have a baby. He had some testing done and all was well. 

I have caught him with porn on his phone. I've caught him masturbating when he thought I wasn't looking. Once was on our cruise while I was 5 feet away in the shower... Naked.. And wet.. Most men would JUMP at this opportunity. Instead he masturbated. I caught him and I yelled out "what the hell are you doing" and he just got nervous and acted like he was just looking thru my phone at pictures of our trip. (he did have my phone) 

My husband dealt with an addiction that ended the same exact time we had the conversation about his issues with libido. It was April 2015. I thought that was the cause of it, and it was a choice he had to make as whether to continue in marriage or continue with the addiction. 

Now he is an alcoholic. He's always had issues with dependency. He's always been an *******. But he does have a loveable side and I love him. I can deal with him being a jerk some days because he is arrogant and I've known that the past 20 years I've known him. But he's also the most loveable person I've known and he has a delicate sweet side. He just does not want to have sex, EVER. And when I do talk him into it, he doesn't finish. 

I know he loves me, Atleast he pretends well to if he doesn't. And I don't want to walk away from my marriage, but I am definitely not happy and I can't live like this any more. I'm 30 years old. I don't have children and I quit fertility treatments a year ago because what's the point in paying $2-3000 a month for medication when my husband doesn't want to put out? 

Even speaking of this makes me sick to my stomach because I know some of the advice I'm going to get is going to tell me to leave, but I really can't take this anymore so I'm hoping someone can relate and give me good solid advice. Or help me feel that yes, leaving is Indeed what I need to do, and help me become at peace with that. Because right now, the thought depresses me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What you are going through is not unusual at all. There is not a lot of support out there for women with husbands who withhold sex and chose to make their marriage sexless or near sexless. A sexless marriage is considered one where there is sex 10 or fewer times a year. We hear all that time that men are ready to have sex all the time. So when a woman's husband does not want sex, it's assumed that she is the one in the marriage with the problem... what's wrong with her? I hope you don't buy into that. Women are finally starting to speak openly about their husbands who withhold sex. As it turns out, men do this as often as women do. 

I, and other women here on TAM have dealt with similar issues with husbands who did not want sex. It is very often that they do not want sex with their wife. But are still getting sex one way or the other, either they are cheating, or using a lot of porn and doing a lot of masturbating. 


Here are three very good books on the topic that might help you.

The Sex-Starved Wife: What to Do When He's Lost Desire

He's Just Not Up for It Anymore: Why Men Stop Having Sex, and What You Can Do About It

Intimacy Anorexia: Healing the Hidden Addiction in Your Marriage


I suggest that you read the books. Then you find a marriage counselor that is also a sex therapist. Then with all the info you lean from those books, you tell him that you will not stay in a sexless, or near sexless marriage. You will not stay with a man who is not interested in sex with you. So either he do what is necessary to fix this and to start having a normal, healthy sex life or you are divorcing him. Tell him that he needs to go to counseling with you and take it seriously. Give him 6 months. If he refuses counseling, file for divorce. If after 6 months he has not done what is necessary to fix your sex life and you don't have a good, healthy and frequent sex life I suggest that you divorce him. The damage to your self esteem being with a man who does not want sex with you and how masterbates all the time is not worth it. Giving up having children because he's playing games with your sex life is not worth it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does your husband hold a steady job? What percentage of your joint income do you earn?


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## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

He does not hold a steady job. I earn about half of the income but he has no responsibility when it comes to finances either. We now have seperate checking accounts because he wants to use his money as he pleases. 

My heart is breaking. He tells me he didn't have to work today, and that they were supposed to call him if he was supposed to go to work. Then I hear him call his friend and say, "yea I didn't figure we were working so I didn't come"

He got drunk tonight and has been puking in my tub. He's laying beside me now passed out with his boots still on and he's gotta get up in less than 3 hrs. I finally got him inside the house about an hr ago. He was passed out on the porch. 

I really wish I could turn off the feelings and give him the ultimatum. I'm just so attached emotionally, like I have the need to fix him or something. I can't seem to find the off switch on my caretaker role and on switch to the wife who is very miserable with the current situations. 

I'm going to bring up counseling tomorrow. And rehab. Or some sort of treatment for his dependency issues. Thank you for advising that. 

I know I'm not undesirable. I get hit on from guys at work. I have no clue why he would be acting this way or what changed all of a sudden to flip the switch. 

This Friday I asked him just because I wanted to see the answer "Are we getting it on tonight?" In a very non-confrontational tone. He laughed and said probably not. 

Saturday came and we were at a friends house. I had two glasses of wine with dinner and knew I was going to have to deal with my husband later so I quit. We camped in their back yard with other friends. There were 5 of us in my friends tent just sitting in a circle chatting. He started grabbing my butt and my boobs saying sexual things. I was very playful with him trying to take his PDA to our tent. Went we finally got there, he laid down and said "not tonight, I just want to cuddle." I was irritated. He said "tomorrow morning will be better for me" so I let it go and went to sleep. I knew in the morning he'd be up before me and he'd leave the tent the first chance he'd get to avoid the situation. 

I heard him get up that morning and I said "come back to bed" and was being super playful. He said, "Not now let's wait until we get home" 

So I asked what the deal was and if he really was going to DO It when we got home. He laid back down and tried to initiate sex and I basically said I didn't want pity sex and I rolled over and went back to sleep. 

This is my life every time I try to initiate. I'm devastated


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

What kind of prison was he in (maximum security?) and is there any chance he may have been raped? Sorry to be blunt but just trying to cover all the bases. Porn and masturbation can really hurt a marriage because the spouse wastes all that sexual energy when they could be directing it at their spouse. I feel like there's something he's keeping from you that caused the drastic change from before going to prison and after getting out. Find a way to get him to open up to you. Seek professional help (sexual therapy).


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## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

He was in a county jail for 9 months. We used to write each other sexual letters. I'm not sure about the possibility that he may have been raped, but he always seemed to have a good relationship with his cell mates. He wasn't ever in a bad mood on the phone. We spoke twice a day for 15 mins the whole time he was in there. 

He did go heavy into pain pills and alcohol when he came out, though. I was thinking the dependency could have been a part of it, but he hasn't used pain medication regularly since April 2015 when I gave him the ultimatum. I did find out he was using heroin a few times, although he denies it. And he denies using now. I have caught him a few times trying to sneak away with a friend that is also hooked, but I usually intercept the action. I'm not sure if he's really clean, but he does drink more than he did when he was using. 

I also know that he will not talk about anything that's hard. He avoids it. I know counseling will not be an option for him but I'm going to request it and see how that goes. I feel like something needs to happen now! He does not like when I try to take control of any situation, he has to be in control. And he is! Because if he says no, then it's no. And there's nothing I can do about it, until right now. I need to stand up and do something about it. Because I'm miserable


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Have a gentle, non-confrontational heart to heart with him. Remind him of the love you both shared and how happy you both were. Reassure him that you're his wife and you loved him dearly and still do, and that he needs to put all his cards on the table and not hold anything back as far as secrets go, because as much as you love him, you can't carry this marriage alone. At some point you will grow exhausted and throw in the towel. Ask him what he imagines his life to be like without you. Ask him to explain the drastic change from before he went to prison and after he got out. Reassure him that he can tell you anything that may have happened to him. Let him know that you're desperate to save the marriage but you can't do it without his help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

UnsureWife said:


> I really wish I could turn off the feelings and give him the ultimatum. I'm just so attached emotionally, like I have the need to fix him or something. I can't seem to find the off switch on my caretaker role and on switch to the wife who is very miserable with the current situations.


Now that you have described the situation and your husband’s behavior to a greater degree, there is much more to say.

It's very hard to break the bond to a person who you are living with. Why? Because when you are near a person you have a relationship with our brain produces and uptakes a lot of the bonding hormone oxytocin. It's the hormone that bonds us to other people. When women give birth, they produce huge amounts of it and this is what cases women to bond strongly to their new born baby.

Oxytocin does two things… it bonds people to each other.. like mother’s and babies, or men and women who are in relationship/marriage. But it is also called the amnesia hormone because it makes the person forget trauma. For example when a woman has a baby, the oxytocin bonds her to her baby as I said earlier, but it also helps her forget the full extent of the pain of child birth. I’ve read that were it not for oxytocin, there would never to a second child. That’s because women would all remember the full extent of the pain of childbirth. But with oxytocin they only partially remember the pain so silly women go on to have more babies  

Researchers found that women who grew up in abusive situations have a distorted oxytocin reaction. They not only produce large amount of oxytocin when they are around someone like their husband, but they produce a large amount when they are abused. Yep, being abused causes a woman to bond more tightly with their abuser. They think that the reason that the body produces and uptakes large amounts of oxytocin with abuse is to blunt the woman’s member of the abuse. So it bonds her to her abuser and it blunts her recollection of the abuse. This is more prevalent in women, though it can happen with abused boys and men.

Abused people will often seem like they are in a daze when they talk about their abuse. They will talk about gross mistreatment but then go on about how they love their abuser. It almost seems surreal to read what they write or listen to them talk.
Well I’m sorry to say, you sound just like that… like you don’t have a real grasp on the depth of how awful things are… it’s surreal.

The thing is, the longer you stay in this situation and around him, the more stuck (or high on oxytocin) you will be. You need to do things to move away from this.

The healthiest thing that you could do would be for you to just leave, divorce him and move on. Your situation is grossly emotionally unhealthy. There is no way you should be putting up with any of this. But I have a feeling that you just want to stay and that you have this need to fix him. You cannot fix him. Only he can fix himself. And it looks like he does not want to be fixed.

So, if you are not going to leave him, you need to stop focusing on him and focus on yourself. Like I said, you cannot fi him. You can only fix yourself.

You need to get into individual counseling for yourself to figure out why you are putting up with this. You need to find out how to get yourself out of this. 

I also think that you need to join Al Anon. It’s an organization for spouses and family of alcoholics. You are part of the problem in that you are enabling him. He could not be this irresponsible, drunk so much, refusing sex, etc etc if you were not helping him do it. You are what is called a co-dependent. Get the book *“Co-Dependent No More”*. You need to read it before you read all those books about sexlessness. The sexlessness part of your life is a much smaller problem than your husband’s other behaviors and your enabling him.

Once you have stopped being co-dependent and stopped enabling his bad behavior, his irresponsibility and his alcoholism… then you can deal with the sexlessness.


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## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

I'll try that tomorrow, thank you! I highly doubt he goes to work. And I know when I get home from work he will be drunk or drinking. I'm not sure how it will go when he's been drinking. I've tried heart to hearts and he doesn't open up! But tonight was a bad night and I need to re-attempt when he sobers up. 

I would really like to move away. I have thought he was cheating, because he was deleting everything from his phone. All messages, all calls, all everything. But I think it has to do more with his dependency issues. He always has to clear his phone before I can use it, and he always gives me grief about using my own phone. But again, it's been this way since he's had an addiction which has been basically the past 3 or 4 years. So sometimes I tell myself he's doing it out of habit, and others I'm very worried he's cheating. 

I'm not sure what is my gut telling me somethings up and what is my self esteem issues making me completely paranoid since all intimate aspects of my relationship with my husband are failing


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## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

He'll have good days and then it's like I forget about the rest. Then it's hard to deal with the bad days because we just had one good day! He's very fun to be around during the day and a complete terror at night. He's never hit me or even tried. He does raise his voice but I raise mine back. Then he usually backs down and apologizes. He does appear to genuinely feel sorry, but that doesn't change the fact that he never will discuss any issues we have or actively try to work on anything. He always just changes the topic and it's on to the next thing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I assume he has a car. Often times when a person cheats, they use their car as a private phone both to talk to the person that they are cheating with. A lot of drug users also talk to their dealers and drug buddies while driving around.

You could get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and secure it up under the front seat with adhesive backed Velcro. See what you get on the recorder. If do this, and you get disturbing things on the recording, do not confront him right away. You could post about it here so that we can help you develop your plan of action. You don't want to just confront with out a plan because would just drive the behavior underground.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

UnsureWife said:


> He'll have good days and then it's like I forget about the rest. Then it's hard to deal with the bad days because we just had one good day! He's very fun to be around during the day and a complete terror at night. He's never hit me or even tried. He does raise his voice but I raise mine back. Then he usually backs down and apologizes. He does appear to genuinely feel sorry, but that doesn't change the fact that he never will discuss any issues we have or actively try to work on anything. He always just changes the topic and it's on to the next thing.


Do a google search on "Cycle of Abuse". 

Abusers almost never abuse every moment of every day. Why? Because if they do that their victim will run away. 

Instead they use intermittent abuse. It flows in a cycle. They will be charming and a lot of fun. And the victim starts to feel good about things. That's called the honeymoom period.

Then they start to get agitated, a bit snippy, etc. But it is still tolerable.

Then there is the blowup.

After the blowup they apologize. They might cry, beg for forgiveness.

And then they enter into the honeymoon period again.... and the cycle goes round and round.

Look it up. It's so very predictable. Intermittent reinforcement and punishment is far more effective in controlling and abuse then constant, steady abuse/controlling.

YOu said that he si always in control. Of course he is. Taht's no surprise. Abuse is all about control. The more he abuses you, the more the tares down your self esteem, and so the more he controls you.

He knows that sex is important to you. So he withholds it as a form of abuse. It's a very common thing for abusive men to do. 

The most common reason for men to withhold sex is to use to as a passiave aggressive way to punish their wife for real or imagined things that they feel their wife did to them. He is most likely angry at you for something. But he's not going to tell you because if he does, he loses his power to passive aggressively hurt you (abuse you).


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Wiping his phone could mean he's cheating or it could mean he's contacting his dealers. I would go with the VAR suggestion but be stealthy about it.


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## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

So is there any way to fix this other than to leave? 

Should I give him an ultimatum? 

I don't want to just walk away, and I will bring up therapy, but if it truly is abuse then I know I don't deserve that. 

I just don't want to regret walking away and go back, wondering if I was wrong, which I know is also probably part of some vicious cycle women go thru when they're being abused. 

And how do I cope with feeling abused? I've never felt that he abused me before. I've always just thought he was an *ssh*le. He's been very ****y and arrogant forever. 

He did watch his father physically abuse his mom for quite some time when he was growing up as a child and then had to step up at a young age and play the manly role on a farm. This was in elementary school when I met him that he was living with his mom and her new boyfriend. So I'm not sure at what age the father left.


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## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

Isn't there an app you can get on your phone to bring things back? 

And I've thought about calling my cell company to find out if they can send me the actual text messages for his line. Does anyone know if this is possible. I did log onto his Facebook not long ago by accident and decided to read his messages. He was logged into my phone because I'm the one who created his Facebook. His kept getting "hacked" and he would say he forgot his password. I got tired of hearing the buzzes every time someone sent him a request, or tagged him in something because the actions were sent to him via text as he couldn't access his account. 

The week of July 12 I was in Florida. He also used to come with me on trips and now he doesn't, he chooses to stay home. I found a conversation that looked odd. Can I post screen shots here or is it best not to?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

UnsureWife said:


> So is there any way to fix this other than to leave?
> 
> Should I give him an ultimatum?


With the additional info… I’d wait till I found out what he’s really up to … using the VAR.
Until you find out more, interact with him according to the 180. Just pull away from him some. This is to protect yourself emotionally. See the link to the 180 in my signature block below.


UnsureWife said:


> I don't want to just walk away, and I will bring up therapy, but if it truly is abuse then I know I don't deserve that.


Yes, his behavior is truly abusive. You don’t deserve a drunken, drug addled, irresponsible, withholding, yelling, etc husband. No one deserves a spouse who acts like that.


UnsureWife said:


> I just don't want to regret walking away and go back, wondering if I was wrong, which I know is also probably part of some vicious cycle women go thru when they're being abused.


Yes, it’s a vicious cycle that women go through when they are abused. Men go through it too when they are abused. and yes there are women who are abusive. (I’m not suggesting that you are. Not at all.)


UnsureWife said:


> And how do I cope with feeling abused? I've never felt that he abused me before. I've always just thought he was an *ssh*le. He's been very ****y and arrogant forever.


Did you grow up in an abusive situation? I’m just curious.

The way you cope with being abused is to get way from the abusive situation. There is absolutely no reason to try to cope with it or live with it. His behavior cannot be excused away as him just being an *******. Who puts up with an ******* anyway?

Look at this, you cannot even have children because of the way he is so irresponsible and his withholding sex. 


UnsureWife said:


> He did watch his father physically abuse his mom for quite some time when he was growing up as a child and then had to step up at a young age and play the manly role on a farm. This was in elementary school when I met him that he was living with his mom and her new boyfriend. So I'm not sure at what age the father left.


Was his father also an alcoholic? He learned how to be a married man from his father. He might not be physically abusing you right now, but abusers seldom start with physical abuse. That usually comes later as their victim starts to get stronger and tries to stop the verbal/emotional abuse. Once that happens, the abuser feels that they are losing control over their victim and has to step up the abuse to regain control and physical abuse is the next level.
Like I said, forget about the lack of sex right now. Deal with your co-dependency. You get into counseling for yourself. Get into Al Anon so that you have a support system and learn how to use tough love to not enable him.

If there is any way you will be able to inspire him to change, it will by you becoming stronger and him realizing that you will no longer up with his nonsense.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

UnsureWife said:


> Isn't there an app you can get on your phone to bring things back?


On many phones, you can get to even the deleted messages. This link is to a thread that should help you.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html#post9756666



UnsureWife said:


> And I've thought about calling my cell company to find out if they can send me the actual text messages for his line. Does anyone know if this is possible. I did log onto his Facebook not long ago by accident and decided to read his messages. He was logged into my phone because I'm the one who created his Facebook. His kept getting "hacked" and he would say he forgot his password. I got tired of hearing the buzzes every time someone sent him a request, or tagged him in something because the actions were sent to him via text as he couldn't access his account.


You'd have to ask the phone company. But I think that above link might help you.



UnsureWife said:


> The week of July 12 I was in Florida. He also used to come with me on trips and now he doesn't, he chooses to stay home. I found a conversation that looked odd. Can I post screen shots here or is it best not to?


You can post screen shops as a file...like a jpg or something like that. our you could just type in the text.


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## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

This is the message 

I'm not sure what to think about it. 



Girl
(Saying husbands name)!

Jul 16 · Sent from Messenger


Husband
What's up

Jul 16


Girl
Are you going to be at C's this evening

Jul 16 · Sent from Messenger


Husband
Going to try to get a ride down


Jul 16


Husband
I'm sure I'll find a way down there tho....

Jul 16


Girl
I'm sure C or S (both males) will come get ya

Jul 16 · Sent from Messenger


Husband
Yeah....

Jul 16


Girl
You find a way down

Jul 16 · Sent from Messenger


Husband
No

Jul 16


Girl
Ch (female friend of the girl's) will come get you I'm sure you wanna come down

Jul 16 · Sent from Messenger


Husband
It don't matter....I'm just going to chill I guess

Jul 16


Girl
Oh alrighty

Jul 16 · Sent from Messenger


Husband
Thanx anyway

Jul 16


Girl
Np

Jul 16 · Sent from Messenger


Seen Aug 6
Girl 
Ya gonna be at J's tmr night

Aug 5 · Sent from Messenger


Husband
Yeah..I'll be there

Aug 6 · Seen Aug 6


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> ...
> 
> It's very hard to break the bond to a person who you are living with. Why? Because when you are near a person you have a relationship with our brain produces and uptakes a lot of the bonding hormone oxytocin....
> 
> ...


Whoa @EleGirl, that was fascinating. That explains so much...


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## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

I read that post. I'm going to try to recover the deleted texts. While he's passed out I'm looking for his phone. He has to get up for work in 15 mins. We will see if he does. I may not be able to recover tonight but I am going to have a look. 

I come from a home with two parents who fought a ton. My mother is an alcoholic. My dad was when I was growing up but is sober. It's odd, my dad became sober and my mother picked up the habit. Their marriage is so completely sad. My husband always tells me we will never be like them. I was also sexually abused when I was 15 and 4 years ago by a friend when I was drunk when my husband was in jail. 

I had originally thought my husbands actions were due to that incident, because he hated my friend. I went out twice the whole 9 months my husband was in jail and I went to my best friends house. My guy friend asked if he could come because he was having some issues with his girlfriend as they were separating. He was very good at brainwashing and I was susceptible I suppose because I was vulnerable. I had a lot to drink. My husband and I were discussing his impending release and how he was going to drink and get around the rules of his probation, which had me frazzled and confused. I went out to unwind and found myself in a horrible situation. 

My husband and I have discussed this thoroughly. The same guy had attempted to sexuall abuse my cousin as well. My cousin had no clue who he was and he had no clue she was my cousin. 

I know that I have a passive personality and I have been working on being more assertive. 

Which is another reason why this seems so hard for me. i battle in my head "Is he really doing this or am I just imagining him doing this"

Still right now I'm asking myself "Is he doing this because I am the way I am" or is he doing this because he's the way he is. Sometimes I'm not easy to live with either. We all have our moments. But I try to contain myself and I live a very productive life. I own a business, I have a professional license, I have a college degree, I'm very driven and hard working, and I'm not an emotional mess all the time as I'm making myself sound. I've dealt with circumstances I've had to live thru. It doesn't consume me. 

My husband on the other hand never deals with anything.

I really have a hard time believing he is intentionally meaning to be abusive. Because he told me not long ago that if he begins to follow in his fathers footsteps to tell him, because he doesn't want this. And he tells people I'm the best thing that's happened to him, and that he can't live without me. 

Ugh! This is so difficult!


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## UnsureWife (Sep 6, 2016)

But I know that this is not healthy no matter what it TRULY is. And I know I have to deal with it. Which is why I'm here asking for advice from others who've dealt with similar issues and can help me. I feel as if I'm blind.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

UnsureWife said:


> But I know that this is not healthy no matter what it TRULY is. And I know I have to deal with it. Which is why I'm here asking for advice from others who've dealt with similar issues and can help me. I feel as if I'm blind.


You are wise to seem out help. So don't think anyone is dissing you here.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

@ UnsureWife 

I don't think the text messages have enough information in them to be suspicious of an affair. It seems the girl is seeking him out actually and he really isn't that responsive to her. 

The lack of sex is a result of the other issues in the marriage. IMO, you need to address those issues first (drinking/drugs and possible emotional affairs). As for the kids, can you imagine your life as it is right now with children in it? He doesn't sound like father material and I would never bring kids into a marriage with those issues.


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

I don't think there is a kind and gentle way of saying this.

What you have is not a marriage. You think that this is a marriage because you've only seen one on TV. He is not your husband. He was never your husband. You can't turn him into a husband because he doesn't know what one looks like. 

He is a drunk heroine addicted ex-con crashing on your couch. He can't be fixed. He has a whole support group of enablers making sure he stays addicted and drunk. If you can't get him to leave, you need to get out. There is nothing to salvage.

Ask yourself this question. Are you so worthless that this is what you deserve?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

UnsureWife said:


> This is the message
> 
> I'm not sure what to think about it.
> 
> ...


There is nothing here proving an affair. But a man who is married should not be making plans to meet up with women, even if the guys are there too.

The text exchange sounds like a bunch of single people, not a married guy.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

UnsureWife said:


> So is there any way to fix this other than to leave?
> 
> Should I give him an ultimatum?
> 
> ...


The above, plus...Alcohol problems, problems keeping a steady job, jail term.

First of all this is all way too serious stuff for Do It yourself help. Get some professional counseling, ASAP.

Your first priority should be on saving yourself. That is both a long term and short term battle. You need to learn from this relationship mistake and it was a mistake. You may "love" him and in his own way he may "love" you. However, every human being deserves to be loved and cherished far better than the way your life is going. 

You need to save yourself. Then you need to "change" yourself so that this kind of relationship will never happen again in your life.

To do that, you need professional help.

Good luck to you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't have a child with this man. The problems you have now will pale in comparison once you add a child to the mix.


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

Hi Unsure, Sorry you are going through this. I too was going to ask if he could have been raped in jail (especially since he doesn't like for you to initiate sex) but that sounds unlikely from what you said. So he is an a**hole with a heart of gold? Unfortunately, it could be anything from he has cheated on you and feels guilty when he has sex with you to he is afraid he might give you a disease because of his heroin use or the drugs have sapped his desire for sex with you. I would advise because of your past issues that you seek help for yourself and hopefully it might help you in your relationship. Good luck
Blaine


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> There is nothing here proving an affair. But a man who is married should not be making plans to meet up with women, even if the guys are there too.
> 
> The text exchange sounds like a bunch of single people, not a married guy.


I agree, and it could just be trying to get into the in crowd for work and customers etc.... but in the case of a married man (or women) such activity would normally be accompanied by full disclosure (and possibly a +1 invite, in no kids/other stuff involved). Wife might not like that he's going out with the boys and girls, but generally such things would be said to her?


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Yes, his behavior is truly abusive. You don’t deserve a drunken, drug addled, irresponsible, withholding, yelling, etc husband. No one deserves a spouse who acts like that.


Also the longer it is put up with, the more that it "becomes the new normal". Patience and steadfastness act as enabling behaviors, as you're probably finding out the target of the abuse can't actually change the problem - because such outrageous activity is a trigger outlet for problems and pain caused elsewhere. Single incidents like crashing a car, destroying something irreplacable cause singular outbursts but in men the usual effect is blow up and tappering off as other things demand attention. So if you're seeing repeated explosions and name calling then most likely you are the outlet not the cause. This is often why there seems to be no solution, because it's not your problem to solve - your only option is to withdraw with all that is precious to you, until the rage person deals with what ever is actual buring them up and they develop better coping methods than to take it out on you. As Ele, mentioned it is common for children who observed/were physical/emotionally/verbal abused to end up as the outlet, because it is a familiar role to them and they don't know how change it. And the first thing you need to realise it's not your problem, and you need safe space to re-stabilise your life so that you don't end up a victim.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Oxytocin does two things… it bonds people to each other.. like mother’s and babies, or men and women who are in relationship/marriage. But it is also called the amnesia hormone because it makes the person forget trauma. For example when a woman has a baby, the oxytocin bonds her to her baby as I said earlier, but it also helps her forget the full extent of the pain of child birth. I’ve read that were it not for oxytocin, there would never to a second child. That’s because women would all remember the full extent of the pain of childbirth. But with oxytocin they only partially remember the pain so silly women go on to have more babies
> 
> Researchers found that women who grew up in abusive situations have a distorted oxytocin reaction. They not only produce large amount of oxytocin when they are around someone like their husband, but they produce a large amount when they are abused. Yep, being abused causes a woman to bond more tightly with their abuser. They think that the reason that the body produces and uptakes large amounts of oxytocin with abuse is to blunt the woman’s member of the abuse. So it bonds her to her abuser and it blunts her recollection of the abuse. This is more prevalent in women, though it can happen with abused boys and men.


Another "term in passing" for Oxytocin is "organic heroin" - which also gives an idea why the comfortable "ok" bubble of heroin is so popular, it substitutes for all those missing love feelings that a person wishes but can't get/relate to - and why heroin users tend to drift away from loved ones, as the high hits similar psych needs.




> Abused people will often seem like they are in a daze when they talk about their abuse. They will talk about gross mistreatment but then go on about how they love their abuser. It almost seems surreal to read what they write or listen to them talk.
> Well I’m sorry to say, you sound just like that… like you don’t have a real grasp on the depth of how awful things are… it’s surreal.


Also the time in absence comes without the bad stuff, so the good things are what is missed. Same for other drug withdrawls, it's easy to miss the buzz/high/relaxation/separation, but people prefer to forget (or outright ignore) the bad stuff...and thinking about the bad stuff is a psych trigger/hot button to dial up the desire for another hit.
Pretty much why TAM seems to recommend the 180 for those of us breaking up relationships - no point keeping that bottle of oxytocin sitting around just out of reach saying we won't do it today....


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Unsure wife, sounds like you as a person have your own life very much together, you are educated, have your own business, bringing in income etc.
YOu see your H as the young man he was when you were both so in love, but he is not that man anymore.
What you have now is an alcoholic who also takes drugs, does not pull his weight in terms of earnings, refuses to be your husband physically, mentally and emotionally. You are not his mother, you are his wife. I would suggest that you have a heart to heart and give him some boundaries. This should involve a seperation.
Tell him, he has not been a husband to you in any sense of the word, he has been using you and emotionally abusing you. You are worth more than this. You separate and tell him if he wants to get his act together, get sober, come off drugs, get counselling for his issues, save some money, you will give him 6 months to do so. If not, you are filing for divorce. Go see a lawyer to see your options.
You may be a passive person but this man will destroy you, use some of that head knowledge and business acumen in your personal life. If you saw your friend in your situation, what would you advise them?
He will pull the crying stunt, etc but right now you are enabling his behavior, by being his safety net. Leave him temporarily, let him fall. If he cleans up his act and wants to work on the marriage, great if not, then you have already moved on. 
Stop waiting for him to do anything differently, he won't, your future is in your hands alone.


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