# Is it Ok if Mental Illness is part of reason for leaving?



## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

As much as we talk things just have not worked out for us. Coupled with that is my spouse's mental illness which just cannot get under control. After 12 years of dealing with it I just find it really stresses me as there is just not much you can really do to help. I have done all that I can, but it is a terrible illness.

Unfortunately I think now that I look at moving on, after not getting the support through my cancer journey, and not having a spouse that can be engaged for partial reasons probably due to her illness..well I feel extreme guilt about my impending decision. That leaving partly due to her not being able to be the spouse I need, due to her illness, well that I should stick with her. But after my cancer, I need to move ahead with life..now. I do not know what tomorrow will bring. And my spouse is not able to. We constantly will be dealing with their illness..and I find that incredibly hard.

Has anyone else left a spouse partly due to mental illness and how have you dealt with the guilt? Thank you every one.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

_Is it Ok if Mental Illness is part of reason for leaving?_

Yes


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

You have to realize that YOU are responsible for your happieness......and that (mental illness or not) SHE is responsible for hers. Suffer the guilt, forgive yourself, and get to a better place.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

sunnyroses,

There comes a time in life where we have to make a quality of life decision. In your case, now is the time. You aren't a horrible person, you now have to take extra care of yourself. I say, do what you have to do to take care of you.

((hugs))


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

What mental illness does she have... sounds whatever meds is not doing what they need to do.. but it's taking it's toll after all these years... 

Were you aware of this before you married? 

Very sad situation.. I think it takes a very special person to be able to stand with someone mentally ill , depending on the severity, and it not drag them under emotionally... many fall into depression just to cope or need other outlets / hobbies to deal with their home life... 

And on top of this, you are going through cancer.. {{{hugs}}}


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I know the feeling, that surviving and beating cancer prompts a certain amount of good selfishness. I say it's good because love is not unconditional, no matter what the clergy tell us.

You have every right to expect to be as emotionally supported as you have been supportive toward her. You have a responsibility to insist she work treatment and support her toward that goal. But if she refuses treatment, if she is not working treatment or if her particular mental illness is severe and treatment resistant, you are not obligated to remain married to her to your own detriment. 

You are obligated to give her notice that this relationship cannot last if the mental illness is not sufficiently treated. You are also obligated to financially support her whether you divorce or not because her illness was not of her doing.

You are not obligated to continue to love someone who is incapable of loving you back.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> You are obligated to give her notice that this relationship cannot last if the mental illness is not sufficiently treated. *You are also obligated to financially support her whether you divorce or not because her illness was not of her doing.*


After divorce there are only legal obligations. I don't think there's a moral obligation to support her. I think it's fine if he wants to, but is he obligated?


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

Depression and anxiety. On meds and doing other treatments for it.

Yes I knew from the beginning. Six months in we were on a holiday and she wanted to kill herself. We have had lots of ups and downs but the illness sadly remains.

Yes and of course she was not able to really be there completely for me during my cancer as she did not cope with it well. And that caused her to be ill, and therefore not emotionally always there for me.




SimplyAmorous said:


> What mental illness does she have... sounds whatever meds is not doing what they need to do.. but it's taking it's toll after all these years...
> 
> Were you aware of this before you married?
> 
> ...


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

sunnyroses said:


> Has anyone else left a spouse partly due to mental illness and how have you dealt with the guilt? Thank you every one.


I would've left my last LTR after 15 years had it not been for her chronic illness and worsening disability. She wasn't mentally ill but the physical deteriation sure increased her 'issues'.

Feelings of guilt kept me hanging in there for another 2 years when things were never going to improve. The last 6 months were a nightmare that we'd likely have avoided if I'd left earlier rather than have 18 months of simmering resentments build until they blew.

I totally understand the guilt, but if you resent staying your care for her will be substandard and you'll be neglecting you own needs. You both lose.

If you leave you'll soon learn to be happy again and family or carers will take care of her as well as or better than you can.

Had I left after 15 years I know I would've felt like a båstard for a bit. Instead, by staying the extra 2 years and enduring 'The Nightmare' I felt like an idiot. If I could do it over again, I'd choose båstard every time. It would've done us both a favour.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You are not a bad person for wanting to leave. 

Mental illness is not covered in the marriage vows. It goes far beyond "in sickness and in health". She has a chronic illness that will never go away. The longer you stay the more and more damage will be done to your own sanity and health. 

You can divorce her and move on with your life, but maybe still remain friends with her...lending her your support? I dunno. Man that's a tough place to be in.

One of my best friends had a mom who was agoraphobic. She was also a hoarder. She wouldn't let him go hardly anywhere when he was a teen because of her irrational fears about what might happen to him. Meanwhile they lived in squalor. 

The best thing that ever happened was he turned 18 and left home forever. But her behavior has scarred him for life. He has nothing to do with her anymore and never talks about her.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

You're definitely not a bad person if you leave in part Bc of her mental illness. I know there will be someone who says "but would everyone give the same response if it was a physical illness??" I will put myself out there and say,no,I personally would tell someone they shouldn't factor physical ailments into their reason for leaving. Mental illness is brutal. It's hard on everyone involved. Especially if the symptoms aren't controlled. 
It has a way of destroying everything that's good and happy for many people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

No you're not a bad person. 

Is she having treatment? Is she willing to try anything and everything to improve her condition? If not, then you have every right to leave.

Mental illness is often harder on carers than the sufferer, as the sufferer gets all the help/meds and the carer(s) get squat. If you do stay, you MUST take measures to protect your own health, or this will suck you dry.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

Yes multiple ongoing treatments. Just continues to struggle. It really drains the heck out of me. I have a parent who is mentally ill as well. With both of them, and my cancer, it was ...well tough. At least got through the cancer fight, but now still struggling with what is left to deal with.

I have seen a psych and somehow have been given the genetics to cope with a monsoon and not be taken down. But I know that at some point I might break. But I also know I want so much more out of life. I am only 39 years old. I have a lot left to do...




frusdil said:


> No you're not a bad person.
> 
> Is she having treatment? Is she willing to try anything and everything to improve her condition? If not, then you have every right to leave.
> 
> Mental illness is often harder on carers than the sufferer, as the sufferer gets all the help/meds and the carer(s) get squat. If you do stay, you MUST take measures to protect your own health, or this will suck you dry.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Does your wife live with you? Are you and her able to carry on as normally as possible when she's lucid? 

Has her MI ever caused her to cheat on you? Does she have impulse control issues? 

Just more information would be helpful.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

You have every right to leave. Sounds like you've tried and done everything you can.

Good luck


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

Yes we live together for over 10 years. I would say yes, normal for the most part.

No cheating. No, just struggles with life and shuts down.



bandit.45 said:


> Does your wife live with you? Are you and her able to carry on as normally as possible when she's lucid?
> 
> Has her MI ever caused her to cheat on you? Does she have impulse control issues?
> 
> Just more information would be helpful.


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## CaptainLOTO (Nov 6, 2013)

There does come a point where you must decide what is best for YOU. My STBX was depressed for years, had several other issues and would not stay with any therapist once they started to get near her REAL issues. I believed I was duty bound "in sickness and health" but their came a point where I realized that grinding through due to a sense of obligation wasn't good for her, for me or for our children.

So, I decided to file for divorce. I also realized that it might help her "hit bottom" and get the help she really needs. Final tipping point was when I saw the kids developing patterns similar to our marriage. My girls would be extraordinarily controlling and selfish with little consideration for the feelings of others (like their mom). Whereas my son was becoming the consummate "caretaker" and sought to serve everyone but himself.

I'm attempting to show the kids an alternate paradigm from what they saw with their mother & I. I've also seen less depressive behavior from her since we separated. I believe that removing the weight of her family obligations from her has allowed her to be her true self and may actually help her overcome her depression.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

Definitely one of the best things anyone has told me throughout all of this...I keep re-reading this quote.



Anon Pink said:


> You are not obligated to continue to love someone who is incapable of loving you back.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

The only caveat I would put on your leaving is if you have children...fathers rarely get sole custody, even in these circumstances - where you most certainly should. It would be extremely selfish and unfair on your part to walk out and leave the children there.

I feel it is very unfair for a parent to walk out on a situation like this because "they can't cope". What about the kids?????

Are there any children involved here?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I left a 28 year marriage with two kids, partially due to my ex mental illness, he was also a serial cheater. The ex had recurrent major depression with anxiety and a paranoid personality disorder. The illness ebbed along during different periods of the relationship. He would get treatment, things would improve. With the last major bout of illness, he refused treatment until I threatened divorce. Then he started seeing a psychiatrist, but stopped a few months in. He refused to get any help, and decided what he needed was to verbally and emotionally abuse us, instead. When his conduct became so bad that one of the kids discovered his serial cheating-I divorced.

Yes I felt guilty for leaving since he had this illness. My doctor, who is very pro-marriage, had to remind me that I did not, and could not, control what he does. I could provide him with every tool in the world to dig himself out and seek medical treatment. But I was at risk of being dragged down into his mental illness and our kids needed at least one functioning parent. 
It was the right thing to do.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

frusdil said:


> The only caveat I would put on your leaving is if you have children...fathers rarely get sole custody, even in these circumstances - where you most certainly should. It would be extremely selfish and unfair on your part to walk out and leave the children there.
> 
> I feel it is very unfair for a parent to walk out on a situation like this because "they can't cope". What about the kids?????
> 
> Are there any children involved here?


Just because someone has D/A doesn't mean they are unable to parent. 

I spent some time reading back threads, It doesn't seem that D/A is your only issue anyway. On top of that it seems that cancer changed you. That's normal. Maybe you just simply aren't compatible anymore. Also normal.. Everyone has the right to determine their own limits and reasons to leave. It's it's Ok with you, it's Ok. No matter what anyone else thinks. 

OP- I also have both. If that was a reason for leaving me, I would be fine with it. I wouldn't want anyone to feel they had to stay with me because of it. Some parts of it are all on me, others I need to be with someone compatible enough to be ok with them (like an introvert who doesn't need to have people over or hang out in groups) You're not doing either of you any favours by staying in a mismatched relationship. Both you and her can move on to find someone more suitable.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Just because someone has D/A doesn't mean they are unable to parent.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Yes I realise that, but in this case the homelife is so unbearable that this man feels there is no other option but to leave. In *this* case, IF there were children involved, it wouldn't be fair.
> ...


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> I left a 28 year marriage with two kids, partially due to my ex mental illness, he was also a serial cheater. The ex had recurrent major depression with anxiety and a paranoid personality disorder. The illness ebbed along during different periods of the relationship. He would get treatment, things would improve. With the last major bout of illness, he refused treatment until I threatened divorce. Then he started seeing a psychiatrist, but stopped a few months in. He refused to get any help, and decided what he needed was to verbally and emotionally abuse us, instead. When his conduct became so bad that one of the kids discovered his serial cheating-I divorced.
> 
> Yes I felt guilty for leaving since he had this illness. My doctor, who is very pro-marriage, had to remind me that I did not, and could not, control what he does. I could provide him with every tool in the world to dig himself out and seek medical treatment. But I was at risk of being dragged down into his mental illness and our kids needed at least one functioning parent.
> It was the right thing to do.


I agree, but the MI wasn't the only reason you left - he was a serial cheater as well - the MI didn't cause that, that's just who he was.

Also, you're the mother - mothers are usually (NOT always) favoured by the courts in custody arrangements....if the situation was reversed and you were the husband and you left the children alone in that situation, that would not have been fair.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

No children.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

frusdil said:


> I agree, but the MI wasn't the only reason you left - he was a serial cheater as well - the MI didn't cause that, that's just who he was.
> 
> Also, you're the mother - mothers are usually (NOT always) favoured by the courts in custody arrangements....if the situation was reversed and you were the husband and you left the children alone in that situation, that would not have been fair.


Perhaps, but his MI did cause him to withdraw from the family and essentially abandon us. Obviously some mental disorders don't preclude functioning in the real world and caring for others. Some do. I had enough documented evidence of mental and emotional abuse that he never had a chance if he challenged custody.
He hasn't seen the kids in a year.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I have been struggling with this same moral dilemma for quite some time. I did vow to be a husband through sickness and in health. On the other hand, my "marriage" has basically devolved into being a source of support for a mentally ill person who can't muster even common civility 90% of the time. I am doing my best to keep my vows but I wouldn't slight anyone who found they just couldn't. I have a moral obligation to keep my word but I also have some moral obligation to myself, my kids, and to society, to live as a complete person. There's always a possibility that a doctor could find the right medication or treatment to turn this around but it's probably more likely that things will only get worse from here on. She didn't ask for her illness and I did make a promise, so I'll deal with it until I just can't. I certainly wouldn't disparage anyone who couldn't.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sunnyroses said:


> Depression and anxiety. On meds and doing other treatments for it.
> 
> Yes I knew from the beginning. Six months in we were on a holiday and she wanted to kill herself. We have had lots of ups and downs but the illness sadly remains.
> 
> Yes and of course she was not able to really be there completely for me during my cancer as she did not cope with it well. And that caused her to be ill, and therefore not emotionally always there for me.


This reminds me of times when I'd ask my H for help, saying I was suffering from this or that, and he would say 'Yes, but *I* have it far worse! *I* have to deal with blah blah blah.' I eventually just gave up asking him for any sort of support.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

frusdil said:


> Yes I realise that, but in this case the homelife is so unbearable that this man feels there is no other option but to leave. In *this* case, IF there were children involved, it wouldn't be fair.
> 
> That said, there may not be any children.


Since there are no children, this doesn't apply but I did want to point out that there are many, many reasons why a husband could find his wife/home unbearable and not able to stay with her that would _not _affect her parenting skills. 

Looking through OPs previous threads, it doesn't seem like mental illness is the only issue. I have read so often, not just talking about the OP here, MI becoming the scapegoat for every issue that happens in a marriage. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not.

OP- one thing I noticed throughout your threads is that cancer has become _everything_. It's now your trump card. I want a new car because I had cancer, I want a party in my home because I had cancer. I told someone about my cancer story and she got annoyed, ... maybe she's just tired of it being used over and over again, she thinks her MI is like my cancer. I get that I sound heartless right now, it changed you and that's a GOOD thing. It's just, I've seen this before. A person who's illness took over their life and when I saw the wife roll her eyes I thought what a b*tch. But then I heard it more and more and I understood what she felt. It's hard being the spouse in this situation, probably harder to be one dealing with her own MI at the same time. 
It's fine for either of you to just walk away. No kids, it can be a clean split.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You are only 39, suffering from cancer, and have no children. You need to decide what is best for you. I've known many individuals with anxiety disorders and depression. They get through life and support their spouses in rough times; with assistance of medication. In your case, your choice is what is best suited for your situation. I wish you recovery.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Since there are no children, this doesn't apply but I did want to point out that there are many, many reasons why a husband could find his wife/home unbearable and not able to stay with her that would _not _affect her parenting skills.
> 
> Looking through OPs previous threads, it doesn't seem like mental illness is the only issue. I have read so often, not just talking about the OP here, MI becoming the scapegoat for every issue that happens in a marriage. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not.
> 
> ...


My SIL made it through cancer and promptly decided life's too short, she didn't want/need my brother anymore. They're getting divorced. Of course, that old boyfriend from 40 years ago who popped up on FB didn't hurt, either.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

turnera said:


> My SIL made it through cancer and promptly decided life's too short, she didn't want/need my brother anymore. They're getting divorced. Of course, that old boyfriend from 40 years ago who popped up on FB didn't hurt, either.


Cancer definitely changes you..good and bad.

I agree, MI is not the only issue. I do think it is the catalyst to many issues and my overall "mood". At some point it becomes difficult to be a full time caregiver, and not have it just zap your positive energy completely away. A vicious circle some times.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

Sadly it does become a trump card some times. Again there is good and bad that comes from it.




SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Since there are no children, this doesn't apply but I did want to point out that there are many, many reasons why a husband could find his wife/home unbearable and not able to stay with her that would _not _affect her parenting skills.
> 
> Looking through OPs previous threads, it doesn't seem like mental illness is the only issue. I have read so often, not just talking about the OP here, MI becoming the scapegoat for every issue that happens in a marriage. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not.
> 
> ...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sunnyroses said:


> Sadly it does become a trump card some times. Again there is good and bad that comes from it.


For things that directly relate to your illness (health care, some job situations, life insurance, etc) then yes, I agree. For regular marital spats- vacations, cars, home parties- I don't believe that 'I had cancer' should be used as a reason to trump her wants. She also can't use 'I have D/A' to get her way. It's just not productive.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Well sure it is, just like leaving your mate because they have MS or AIDS or a brain tumor or lupus or blindness is fine. You're the only person who has to live with yourself.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

Runs like Dog said:


> Well sure it is, just like leaving your mate because they have MS or AIDS or a brain tumor or lupus or blindness is fine. You're the only person who has to live with yourself.


You really have no clue about MI. Zero.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

sunnyroses said:


> Cancer definitely changes you..good and bad.
> 
> I agree, MI is not the only issue. I do think it is the catalyst to many issues and my overall "mood". At some point it becomes difficult to be a full time caregiver, and not have it just zap your positive energy completely away. *A vicious circle some times.*


I completely identify with how cancer can change you, how being a caregiver can change you, and how feeling unloved while being a caregiver AND been through cancer can totally zap you.

What I did, and maybe you can too, is to stop being a caregiver and make your life look like it would look, if you were in the marriage of your dreams.

To put it plainly, what would you be doing on Saturday if you were married to your perfect mate? If you answer is something with that mate, what would it be, ideally? Now ask yourself why you can go ahead and do that thing anyway? Alone or with your current mate, why can't you do that thing anyway?

The other aspect is feeling unloved and this you can't change unless you learn to love yourself and take care of yourself and you can do that with and without your perfect mate.

Sometimes, when we change how we react to the world, the world changes.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

My husband and I have been dealing with my bipolar disorder & anxiety for many years. The only time he threatened to leave was before I was diagnosed and treated. I was a hot mess, I must admit.

Some people can deal with supporting someone with MI by getting educated, knowing how and when to set boundaries, joining a support group, and detaching at times as well.

Before leaving, I would be sure that your wife has tried EVERYTHING and she has a good psychiatrist who knows that meds like lithium and lamictal can be used for unipolar depression, older ADs such as tricyclics and MAOIs as well.

Your wife has to also be proactive in her treatment. Getting therapy that is focused, not a never ending circle of talking about the past, but focusing on today and beyond. ACT therapy was a lifesaver for me, and hardly anyone I know has even heard of it. She can also get self help workbooks, join a support group, make a structured day with activities and goals even when she feels like crap.

If she is unwilling or unable to do those things, it is on her and not you. Like a person who won't take their heart meds and expects you to stick around for the heart attack. Just be sure to break the news in a public place or with her family/friends nearby. 

I am thankful for my husband who is so supportive, but I know if I quit treatment and doing everything I can to stay well, he might leave. I wish both of you the best.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

I do believe in this below. To a point. You can do all of this, and then your spouse breaks down again...or talks about suicide..again...and your perfectly planned Saturday is no more. It is not as easy as your suggestions. I wish it was.




Anon Pink said:


> I completely identify with how cancer can change you, how being a caregiver can change you, and how feeling unloved while being a caregiver AND been through cancer can totally zap you.
> 
> What I did, and maybe you can too, is to stop being a caregiver and make your life look like it would look, if you were in the marriage of your dreams.
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

sunnyroses said:


> I do believe in this below. To a point. You can do all of this, and then your spouse breaks down again...or talks about suicide..again...and your perfectly planned Saturday is no more. It is not as easy as your suggestions. I wish it was.


I thought as much. You are a hostage.

If your wife breaks down when go out and live your life, how do you think you will handle her break down when you leave her? If her response to you taking a step stops you from taking that step, how can you expect to be able to walk all the way out?

Google detatchment and "let go with love." This is a skill set that essentially allows you to be able go about your life, doing the good and positive things that bring you happiness and health while not being held hostage by your wife's reactions. 

For instance, she gets upset that you went to a football game with friends. You offer to take her next time. Next time comes and she says she's not feeling well. You give appropriate sympathy but you still go.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

sunnyroses said:


> You really have no clue about MI. Zero.



Lifelong type one bipolar with depression psychosis. Institutionalized three times, electroshock, multiple arrests, multiple suicide attempts. currently on a regime of 3 or 4 psychoactive drugs & on my 5th psychiatrist in 15 years.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

I think it is the overall umbrella of living with someone with MI. I think as someone before mentioned, it can cause the caregiver to sometimes be drawn into a depression.

You can try all you want and be positive. I do that. But at some point you come home and want a "HELLO" and instead you get a "hey". They cannot engage and be the person you need because they are struggling all the time with their illness. So I can try to be upbeat and do stuff on my own. The problem is I want a life partner. Someone to be full of zest and enjoy everything with. When someone is badly struggling with MI it is very difficult for them to fulfill that role. And if you deeply care for your spouse, as I do, it starts to really kill you seeing them and not being able to help them other than be there for support.

So after years of this it starts to really wear and drag you down. It is so draining. You want to go into another gear sometimes with life and fully enjoy it..but your spouse is stuck in first gear.

I know my cancer has been draining on my spouse as well. I cannot imagine. But it has not changed my vigor for life. I am still positive and want to live. My spouse's MI is amuch different beast than my cancer.




Anon Pink said:


> I thought as much. You are a hostage.
> 
> If your wife breaks down when go out and live your life, how do you think you will handle her break down when you leave her? If her response to you taking a step stops you from taking that step, how can you expect to be able to walk all the way out?
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

sunnyroses said:


> I think it is the overall umbrella of living with someone with MI. I think as someone before mentioned, it can cause the caregiver to sometimes be drawn into a depression.
> 
> You can try all you want and be positive. I do that. But at some point you come home and want a "HELLO" and instead you get a "hey". They cannot engage and be the person you need because they are struggling all the time with their illness. So I can try to be upbeat and do stuff on my own. The problem is I want a life partner. Someone to be full of zest and enjoy everything with. When someone is badly struggling with MI it is very difficult for them to fulfill that role. And if you deeply care for your spouse, as I do, it starts to really kill you seeing them and not being able to help them other than be there for support.
> 
> ...


I completely understand how draining this must be for you, how her lack of zest for life weighs you down and makes it darn near impossible to feel love toward them because they don't give love back.

But, like I said once you leave, you will have to start living your life and gaining enjoyment on your own, right? Once single you will have to get out, make friends, make plans, indulge in hobbies and other things that bring enjoyment to your life.

Start doing them now. Start acting single now. Not talking about seeking a new partner I'm talking about what do single people do with their free time? What do single people do on weekend? Start doing them now.

I think you will find that going out and enjoying your life, without depending on your wife by your side, may very well be the jolt she needs to see that being mired down in depression is not a way to live.

Depression is curable, it is treatable. The difficult thing is that they become so wrapped up in avoiding stress and anxiety provoking every day situations, they make it worse. Once you stop arranging your life around depression, your wife might come to see how she has also arranged her life around depression.

You don't need a spouse to enjoy life, you just need to ...do it.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

Excellent points. I have started this. But truly, just being on my own and starting this would be more appealing to me. My shoulders would be down. Stress levels evaporated. There is no "curing" my situation. If I suddenly "gain a full bore single life" within my marriage, I will not be happy. Because my spouse is not suddenly going to "snap" out of anything one day. They are not suddenly going to say, oh, I should be this way or that way more often. Their illness has been with us for over 10 years. It will change NOTHING on their end if I suddenly am living the single life. NOTHING.

So I do not see any reason to create some kind of single life withing our relationship, in order that this would be bring me more happiness and perhaps bring her along for the ride. It will not happen. What will happen is I would be a bit more engaged with life, but still brought down by the burden of MI.




Anon Pink said:


> I completely understand how draining this must be for you, how her lack of zest for life weighs you down and makes it darn near impossible to feel love toward them because they don't give love back.
> 
> But, like I said once you leave, you will have to start living your life and gaining enjoyment on your own, right? Once single you will have to get out, make friends, make plans, indulge in hobbies and other things that bring enjoyment to your life.
> 
> ...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Type II bipolar brother, paranoid schizophrenic mother.

The question is rooted in a misconception of your relationship to your spouse and his or her disorder. Staying with a mentally ill person is not a treatment nor a solution. It does not solve the problem. It does not in the long term improve anything. 

Their happiness and mental well being is not in your ability to control or even mediate. You cannot make them better by staying and your leaving will not make them worse. If they cannot or will not help themselves, than you have the choice of ruining one life or two.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

Sadly, I agree with this take. THis is where the guilt becomes overpowering at times thinking about leaving.



Cletus said:


> Type II bipolar brother, paranoid schizophrenic mother.
> 
> The question is rooted in a misconception of your relationship to your spouse and his or her disorder. Staying with a mentally ill person is not a treatment nor a solution. It does not solve the problem. It does not in the long term improve anything.
> 
> Their happiness and mental well being is not in your ability to control or even mediate. You cannot make them better by staying and your leaving will not make them worse. If they cannot or will not help themselves, than you have the choice of ruining one life or two.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

sunnyroses said:


> Sadly, I agree with this take. THis is where the guilt becomes overpowering at times thinking about leaving.


I don't even consider this my "take" on the problem.

This is reality. I don't often say that there is only one way to look at something, the world is too complex for that. But when you're living with mental illness, this position is FACT. One that may take you a long time to reconcile, but true nonetheless.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

Yes bad choice of words, I did not mean take. I think the facts are truly just that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

It is my opinion that if you're thinking about leaving, and you know why, and you have even the slightest hope or a shred of love left, you owe it to yourself to own it out loud. "I can't live like this and I'm thinking of leaving. I'm letting you know because you're going to need to either work your treatment more effectively, or make plans without me."

You avoiding this uncomfortable conversation is just as unhealthy (cowardly) as your wife's lack luster effort in gaining her own health.

Honest, open and fearless.


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## sunnyroses (May 28, 2013)

We have had months of conversations. This is already fully all in the open. Would not be a surprise.



Anon Pink said:


> It is my opinion that if you're thinking about leaving, and you know why, and you have even the slightest hope or a shred of love left, you owe it to yourself to own it out loud. "I can't live like this and I'm thinking of leaving. I'm letting you know because you're going to need to either work your treatment more effectively, or make plans without me."
> 
> You avoiding this uncomfortable conversation is just as unhealthy (cowardly) as your wife's lack luster effort in gaining her own health.
> 
> Honest, open and fearless.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

sunnyroses said:


> Sadly, I agree with this take. THis is where the guilt becomes overpowering at times thinking about leaving.


Your guilt is the very thing your spouse is relying on to keep in the marriage. One of the hardest dynamics of dealing with MI and depression is they have to truly realize it and want to change. Right now your spouse doesn’t have to change because you aren’t going anywhere. If you leave then she has a reason for being depressed. They have win/win in their heads even though its lose/lose.

If your spouse isn’t willing to seek help and be pro-active in treatment you don’t have too many options. People have no idea how much it wears on you long term and you wont even realize how much you have changed or tolerated to just maintain the status quo until you allow yourself some distance from the eye of the storm. 

Even if they get into therapy it seems to last only so long and the downward spiral starts again. Meds usually aren’t effective after long term use or they quit taking them. 

In my situation my spouse was on meds for years and kept most of the “big” problems in check and looking back I danced around the little ones. I changed to maintain and slowly became what I call the “caretaker” role than the husband. In looking back I guess you could say we worked on the symptoms rather than the problem. 

Im not telling you that you should leave her but if she is unwilling to get help or improve the situation long term its going to implode. Many times it’s the ill person who implodes it as in my case.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ok... so here goes...

so what do you DO about her depression? do you let her sit in a room all day because she doesnt feel like doing anything? i ask because i get the feeling that you let her get away with not addressing her issues. i dont think you have directly stated it, but i get the feeling you shelter her. if you do, you need to stop.

im probably harder on people with depression than most people are, but i have seen how it works in my wife. she suffers from major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and agoraphobia, complete with episodes of panic attack and hyperventilation. for two years i watched her waste away in front of a computer because she was afraid to leave the house. then she had no desire to do anything. and guess what? that made it WORSE!

she would sit in front of a tv or a computer all day long. she usually didnt even change her clothes, just let trash pile up around her. the house would get messy, nothing would get done, and she would get WORSE. 

then one day i decided that i had enough so i cleaned the house and challenged her to get out of it. she spent so much time doing nothing at all that she was unable to feel proud of herself at all. the anxiety, complete social isolation, guilt and hopelessness that came from feeling like a failure(because she never did anything)...

it was just one giant downward spiral. she was unable to "look up". she couldnt motivate herself to even start ACTING like she wasnt depressed. and i dont mean smiles, cuz who cares about that. she didnt need to smile. she needed to feel like she was worth something. she needed to work. 

i grew up with a mentally ill person... my mother. she suffered depression, dissociative identity disorder, and anxiety. my father was fine. what i saw growing up was my mother going into a downward spiral, treating everyone, especially my father, like absolute crap while she spent most of her day wasting away in her room. eventually, my father would have enough, lay down some rules about how she is to act if she doesnt want him to leave. then she would get better, would be genuinely happy for a while and eventually slip back into depression. 
personally, i think my father should have been chewing her out and laying down some rules from the get go, consistently. instead, they go in cycles. 


so anyway, i told my wife that i would smash every piece of electronics in the house if she didnt start getting out of the house. i would have removed all the furniture and gone straight japanese on the place before i spent another day watching her waste away. i SHOULD have done it sooner. i developed a habit of challenging her and providing motivation for her to get out of the house, and she developed habits that carry her through the "downs". her low periods are NOTHING like what they used to be. she started doing things even when she didnt feel like it. 

yeah, i got the dumb excuses too. i would say, lets go to the movies. "i dont feel like it". well, no **** you dont feel like it, your depressed! i didnt say you had to LIKE it, i just said i want you to GO. i would say, "wife, i want to go fishing, lets go fishing." 
of course she never felt like fishing. thats fine. she can go be melancholy on a cold river bank for a few hours and have a reason to SMILE when she gets back into the nice warm house, warm blankets, and cup of hot cocoa in her hand. you know what? that actually worked pretty well. it got me thinking... maybe she NEEDS a little discomfort in her life. i mean, its normal for people to work and then enjoy their time off. if you never work, time of isnt special at all. 

so yea, nowadays, i make sure she gets up and DOES the stuff that a non-depressed person would do. and nowadays, the depression does not rule her. 

who cares if your wife doesnt FEEL it. she still needs to DO it. and after a while, when she starts to look back, she will have more reason to be proud of her accomplishments than she will to feel bad about how she doesnt do anything. she will stop seeing herself as worthless when she stops ACTING like she is worthless. 

are you capable of things like this? are you capable of letting go of your expectations on HER feelings? are you capable of motivating her to get out and get active with you?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I just left mine... or maybe it's a mutual agreement... I haven't worked it out yet..  Feeling guilty. No. She seemed to want out too since she couldn't make me happy. I'm saddened because she never wanted proper therapy.

It's taken me a long time to realise that I'm dealing with someone with a real mental illness. Not ad bad as your wife's, but obviously debilitating. We had a communication problem and I didn't understand what was going on... would that have made things better? I don't really know, but I doubt it. She refuses therapy.

I understand what you are going through.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

What a great post by As'laDain...and his marital story turn around is very touching..that's some great insight...

I think it takes a very strong /naturally sacrificial stable person to LOVE in spite of difficult mental problems.. I've known people who have divorced over the wife no longer taking her meds, she would think she was better & just stop -then have awful flare-ups, she would get violent, he was worried about her behavior around their child.. so he divorced & won custody.. sometimes you do what you have to do.. 

Another couple.... Bipolar husband...he was fine when on lithium I guess.. but once when not taking it ......he couldn't take the family dog barking, so he opened the door, & shot him dead...who can live with these things. 

A Husband or wife has to have enough mental capacity to see how their actions destroy others around them.. 

Do people really know what is in store while dating to overlook some of the potential signs to come.... (does depression run in the family, Bi-polar, etc)... 

This article gives some questions to ask...''

Mental Illness & Divorce: What You Need To Know | Care2 Healthy Living



> When considering a divorce with mental illness as a factor, it is important to ask yourself the following questions:
> 
> * Is the mental health condition treatable, and is the individual willing to be treated?
> 
> ...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

There are clear differences between mental illness and we today call personality disorders. You people DO understand that, yes?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Why don't you enlighten us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

OP only you can decide if it is the right/best thing to do but I will give you a brief outline of my partners situation as an insight into other peoples lives.

Mr H's ex has severe, medically diagnosed mental health issues as do other members of her family.
They were married 20 years, the issues showed up very early in the relationship but he was in love with her and had no clue what the future was going to hold.
They fell into the life trap of having kids, her issues got worse over time, resentments set in on both sides. The marriage was toxic for both of them, he tried to help her, she kept sabotaging his efforts, it went around in circles.
He made some bad choices as a reaction to his miserable life, these things created more resentments and their marriage got worse and worse.
She eventually told him to leave, he still loved her but the reality was that he was co dependent.
He left the marriage, they were basically at war for a couple of years.

Mr H and I then met and TBH I felt very confronted by the whole situation. There were times that I wished I never met him because mental health issues and the fall out from them are something I had never experienced. But we worked our way through it all, our relationship got more and more serious.

I eventually met his kids and slowly we all got to know each other.
I then met his ex and she eventually met my kids. 

Mr H will for some time yet financially support his ex, she is not capable of full time employment. He will always (I hope) emotionally support her.

So 5 years down the track post divorce and his ex is just about to enter a one month live in centre to get some intense therapy. In Aussie we have a reasonable mental health support system. She has the support of various professionals and everyone is doing what they can to help her. 

During their marriage she fought the getting of help, there were real points of being totally out of control and IMHO them being married actually exacerbated her illness. Now she is far more accepting that she needs fairly intense professional help.

Not long ago she apologised to him for the part she played in their struggles while married, she has started to take responsibility for her role in it all. She knows she needs a lot of support and she is taking a huge step by going to the one month clinic. 

Her and I get along well, I know where the boundaries lie and I do not cross them. She has thanked me for being an understanding person and she trusts me with the care of her children. 

I fully support Mr H's supporting of her, he is a good man and I respect him for caring about his ex. I know it was very difficult for him to leave the marriage due to her mental health issues, he still has some guilt but this is easing as time goes on.

Only you can decide if leaving is the right thing for you to do, just be prepared for the feelings of guilt and seek some professional support if you need to. I wish you all the best.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Has your wife tried many meds over the years? Are they different classes of meds? Does she have a psychiatrist or just a GP? Are you welcome at her appointments? Has she signed a HIPAA release so you are informed about what the heck is being done as far as her treatment? 

If a doc/therapist isn't helping after 6 months, it is on her to find someone else. I am very wary of the therapists who want to rehash your childhood. I think coping skills and behavioral modification you can use TODAY are much better than figuring out why your mom didn't hug you enough or your sister bullied you. Of course, in the case of severe trauma, one should find a PHD who specializes in abuse. 

I feel for you both and I don't think anyone would blame you if you have to leave for your own mental health.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

As'laDain said:


> Why don't you enlighten us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Personality disorders are a spectrum of objectionable behaviors that make them hard or impossible to live with. People with genuine mental illness are more often a much greater danger to themselves or manifest as lives where the afflicted can no longer care for themselves. Paranoids and narcissists are entirely capable of caring for themselves, in fact that's all they do. People with severe mental illness don't eat, bathe, dress or otherwise manage anything.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Personality disorders are a spectrum of objectionable behaviors that make them hard or impossible to live with. People with genuine mental illness are more often a much greater danger to themselves or manifest as lives where the afflicted can no longer care for themselves. Paranoids and narcissists are entirely capable of caring for themselves, in fact that's all they do. People with severe mental illness don't eat, bathe, dress or otherwise manage anything.


people with severe OCD can still manage to take care of themselves but they still have a mental illness. and there are people who are so paranoid that they shut off the entire outside world, to the point where they no longer take care of themselves. they are no more capable of taking care of themselves than someone with depression. or less capable for that matter. 
have you ever met someone who seemed like a complete a$$hole, only to find out later that they had a severe form of PTSD?

the lines between a personality disorder and a mental illness can be quite blurry. either way, if it takes someone from the outside looking in to help them out and keep them from spiraling into self destruction, i think we can safely say that they are afflicted with a disabling condition.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I haven't read any of the other comments:

My mother is mentally ill. It started in her twenties when I was about 5 or 6. My parents were divorced when I was 9. 

You can't help a mentally ill person because they don't see themselves as mentally ill. Unless they are a danger, not much you can do. 

My mother was COMPLETLY crazy and has several different crazy "personalities "

When I wanted to get married, I went to two doctors. The first was a MD to find out the percentage of me passing the crazy gene to my children. His answer was anywhere between 3-17%. He also said those percentages were basically the same for "normal" people. 

I next saw a counselor about what to do in my life with my mother. She had made my life hell and my sibling's life hell our whole lives. I was worried about my future. 

The advice I was given was to "cut and run". I was counseled twice and both counsellors said the same thing. 

They said a clean break and save yourself. It was hard but really the best thing. 

My brother cut my mom out of his life and has a great life. 

My sister and I kept our mother around but at arms length. My mother has managed to continue to invade and terrorise our lives. 

I wish I had listened to their advice. 

All I know is 49 years of hell with a mentally ill person. 

My advice, save yourself.


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