# My wife seeks "eye contact" with other men while we are out in public



## starkness

Hello everyone, Thank you for taking the time to read this and help me. 

I love my wife more than anyone else (including my own family, long story) however, she does something that gets me so mad I can become physically ill and mentally raged......when we are out at a restaurant or sitting down in public, my wife seeks out EYE CONTACT WITH OTHER MEN..... Im not talking about harmless looking (admit it, we are all human and have a normal wandering eye now and then) she actually will stare at other men and seek the eye contact out. I will look at her and she is staring at something, then I will say to myself, "I BET SHE IS LOOKING AT AND MAINTAINING EYE CONTACT WITH ANOTHER MAN".......Then I look directly in the direction she is looking in and.......IT IS A MAN LOOKING BACK AT HER AND DEEPLY MAINTAINING EYE CONTACT....... IT MAKES ME SICK (LITERALLY)....I have even gotten up and left the restaurant because of this...........Then, after I notice them exchanging deep eye contact, it will happen the whole time we are there...Its not just one or two looks, it happens the whole time. .....I don't think she has ever cheated, I have never cheated, we both love each other very much......but.......it bothers me so much....I AM EVEN GETTING PHYSICALLY ILL RIGHT NOW WHILE WRITING ALL THIS, THAT'S HOW MUCH IT HURTS..........I have, very calmly approached her on this topic (wanting to resolve it and let her know how much it hurts) but its all excuses like...."I'm not even looking at him" or "I cant even see that far" or "he isn't even good looking and you have nothing to worry about" or "it's all in your head" or "im lookin at the wall" or "which guy, i dont know what you talking about".......or a million other lame ass excuses.........if i dont drop it immediately after, she will get all defensive or angry saying that "I" am insecure, or making things up in my head..........It really insults my intelligence to hear that.........

I KNOW THIS IS A SOMEWHAT TYPICAL ISSUE IN SOME MARRIAGES, BUT IT'S REALLY KILLING ME TO THE CORE OF MY SOUL..............PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME, I AM MAN WHO IS LITERALLY DYING INSIDE MORE AND MORE EVERY TIME SHE DOES THIS.......


----------



## somethingelse

Are you SURE she's not cheating?


----------



## starkness

The one getting cheated on is the last one to know usually, so, no, I am not sure......I wouldnt think she is......


----------



## somethingelse

My husband used to do this practically everywhere we went because he was always seeking another woman and it fed his Ego


----------



## SadSamIAm

You have every right to feel the way you do if she is doing what you say she is doing. My guess is that she is doing it and is denying it when you question her.

I have encountered women like this. I think of them as either being a tease (trying to see if you will give them the attention) or actively looking for a relationship of some kind. 

All I can say is enforce your boundaries. 

The problem I see is that if she does this when you are with her, what does she do when you are not there? What happens when the stare results in the man approaching her?


----------



## starkness

My wife absolutely loves me. I really know it for a fact, when you know you just know........I dont think she would cheat because she is fully loved sexually and emotionally..........I dont know what to make of this. It even happens on very important occasions like on a cruise ship restuaurant (we went on a cruise an got married) it happend 2 days before we were getting married....and it happened at a restaurant on my birthday


----------



## starkness

that is what im thinking about "what are the looks like when im not there if she does it when im there


----------



## somethingelse

starkness said:


> My wife absolutely loves me. I really know it for a fact, when you know you just know........I dont think she would cheat because she is fully loved sexually and emotionally..........I dont know what to make of this. It even happens on very important occasions like on a cruise ship restuaurant (we went on a cruise an got married) it happend 2 days before we were getting married....and it happened at a restaurant on my birthday


Why do YOU think she has stare downs with other men? What's your hunch?

Because in my opinion. It doesn't matter what you think is going well, or how much you think you must be pleasing her..because the sad reality is she's talking to other men through her eyes. Telling them she's interested.


----------



## SadSamIAm

starkness said:


> My wife absolutely loves me. I really know it for a fact, when you know you just know........I dont think she would cheat because she is fully loved sexually and emotionally..........I dont know what to make of this. It even happens on very important occasions like on a cruise ship restuaurant (we went on a cruise an got married) it happend 2 days before we were getting married....and it happened at a restaurant on my birthday


Very disrespectful. 

Are you sure she isn't doing it to bother you? Maybe she likes it when you get jealous and show her you care. 

Seems strange she would do it so obviously right in front of you. If I stared at a girl's boobs right in front of my wife, I would expect to get slapped. I view eye contact as much more intimate than that.


----------



## Advocado

A few thoughts come to mind.

She is being extremely *disrespectful *of you. Is she normally a disrespectful person, towards you and/or others?

To give her the benefit of the doubt maybe she doesn't realise how much it is killing you and foolishly likes to have you feeling jealous to boost her own self esteem. 

Have you actually explained to her how it makes you feel? If not, do tell her in no uncertain terms, but only tell her once, and then if she doesn't stop it immediately then you know she couldn't care less about your feelings. 

And if she's not cheating, or planning on cheating, she's playing with fire as one day one of these men may not take kindly to being teased!

You shouldn't have to put up with this. For many, myself included, this would be a dealbreaker. 

What's the general state of the relationship?


----------



## starkness

SadSamIAm said:


> Very disrespectful.
> 
> Are you sure she isn't doing it to bother you? Maybe she likes it when you get jealous and show her you care.
> 
> Seems strange she would do it so obviously right in front of you. If I stared at a girl's boobs right in front of my wife, I would expect to get slapped. I view eye contact as much more intimate than that.


she is a loving and caring person, no, she actually doesnt like it if i get jelous, she says it shows insecurity


----------



## starkness

Advocado said:


> A few thoughts come to mind.
> 
> She is being extremely *disrespectful *of you. Is she normally a disrespectful person, towards you and/or others?
> 
> To give her the benefit of the doubt maybe she doesn't realise how much it is killing you and foolishly likes to have you feeling jealous to boost her own self esteem.
> 
> Have you actually explained to her how it makes you feel? If not, do tell her in no uncertain terms, but only tell her once, and then if she doesn't stop it immediately then you know she couldn't care less about your feelings.
> 
> And if she's not cheating, or planning on cheating, she's playing with fire as one day one of these men may not take kindly to being teased!
> 
> You shouldn't have to put up with this. For many, myself included, this would be a dealbreaker.
> 
> What's the general state of the relationship?


she is not a mean person, nor would she do this to make me jelous.....I have a hunch she likes the attention to boost her self esteem .....yes i have talked to her about it....its always an excuse like "i dont know what your talking about" or "I cant even see that far" or "what guy" she really thinks im that stupid


----------



## treyvion

SadSamIAm said:


> You have every right to feel the way you do if she is doing what you say she is doing. My guess is that she is doing it and is denying it when you question her.
> 
> I have encountered women like this. I think of them as either being a tease (trying to see if you will give them the attention) or actively looking for a relationship of some kind.
> 
> All I can say is enforce your boundaries.
> 
> The problem I see is that if she does this when you are with her, what does she do when you are not there? What happens when the stare results in the man approaching her?


It means she's still out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife

What nationality is she?

How did you meet?


----------



## starkness

Faithful Wife said:


> What nationality is she?
> 
> How did you meet?


she is east indian and she is a nurse, we met online


----------



## starkness

Advocado said:


> A few thoughts come to mind.
> 
> She is being extremely *disrespectful *of you. Is she normally a disrespectful person, towards you and/or others?
> 
> To give her the benefit of the doubt maybe she doesn't realise how much it is killing you and foolishly likes to have you feeling jealous to boost her own self esteem.
> 
> Have you actually explained to her how it makes you feel? If not, do tell her in no uncertain terms, but only tell her once, and then if she doesn't stop it immediately then you know she couldn't care less about your feelings.
> 
> And if she's not cheating, or planning on cheating, she's playing with fire as one day one of these men may not take kindly to being teased!
> 
> You shouldn't have to put up with this. For many, myself included, this would be a dealbreaker.
> 
> What's the general state of the relationship?


she is not disrespectful in any way...our relationships have had some hiccups along the way, but I cant see why she is doing this, I give her alot of attention as I dont have a family (not close to them and live accross the country) i am at witts end and think about leaving alot........she always denies it everytime it happens.....believe me, she is not trying to get caught


----------



## starkness

somethingelse said:


> Why do YOU think she has stare downs with other men? What's your hunch?
> 
> Because in my opinion. It doesn't matter what you think is going well, or how much you think you must be pleasing her..because the sad reality is she's talking to other men through her eyes. Telling them she's interested.


honestly, i have no hunch either she IS cheating and cant hide her ways of acting....or she is fueling some low self-esteem issues.....but come on, this is alot of eye contact.......she will look at the other guy more than me.... (or at lease it seems like it)


----------



## Advocado

Ask her if she's be okay with you doing the same thing? (I'm not suggesting you do it but maybe if you can get her to think about how it would feel, she might be inclined to come out of denial about what she is doing - even if she won't openly admit it, she may stop doing it).


----------



## Faithful Wife

I know this sounds sneaky, but is there anyway you could "bait" her into doing this with a guy you know, and have the guy with a hidden camera in his hat or something? So that later you can show her what you mean?

If she is going to keep denying it, you are going to have to show her what you are seeing.

Once you do show her, I bet she would snap out of it immediately.


----------



## starkness

Faithful Wife said:


> I know this sounds sneaky, but is there anyway you could "bait" her into doing this with a guy you know, and have the guy with a hidden camera in his hat or something? So that later you can show her what you mean?
> 
> If she is going to keep denying it, you are going to have to show her what you are seeing.
> 
> Once you do show her, I bet she would snap out of it immediately.


that is sneaky. But if i did that then she would most likely flip the situation into me not trusting her and she will emotionally shut down.....trust me, I know what she is doing, when there is one guy and a big solid plain wall, i know they are looking at eachother.....its overly obvious when you know what your looking for


----------



## starkness

Advocado said:


> Ask her if she's be okay with you doing the same thing? (I'm not suggesting you do it but maybe if you can get her to think about how it would feel, she might be inclined to come out of denial about what she is doing - even if she won't openly admit it, she may stop doing it).


honestly, im not the petty or revengeful type, dont want the drama........personally if i do it to her, i have the feeling she will up the ante so to speak..........pissing into the wind.....the harder i push it out, the more it comes back on me


----------



## SadSamIAm

starkness said:


> she is a loving and caring person, no, she actually doesnt like it if i get jelous, she says it shows insecurity


Maybe this is a way of showing how powerful she is. She stares at a guy, so you notice. You get jealous. Then she gets to tell you how insecure you are. 

Perfect way for her to put you down a few notches.

What you should do is go talk to the guy she is staring at. Tell him you are out on a date and wondering if your date is staring at him. Make a comment about how you want to dump her if she is flirting as you just started dating.


----------



## IndiaInk

starkness said:


> *I KNOW THIS IS A SOMEWHAT TYPICAL ISSUE IN SOME MARRIAGES, *BUT IT'S REALLY KILLING ME TO THE CORE OF MY SOUL..............PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME, I AM MAN WHO IS LITERALLY DYING INSIDE MORE AND MORE EVERY TIME SHE DOES THIS.......


I disagree. It's not typical. It's not acceptable.

And it is especially abnormal behavior in a woman.

As far as helping you goes---

None of us can do that...that's all on you.

Provided your account of events is accurate, this is completely and utterly disrespectful behavior.

Personally, I would find it intolerable (i.e. I WOULD NOT tolerate it)...even if that ultimately resulted in the end of the marriage

You simply have to determine how much your self-respect is worth to you.


----------



## starkness

SadSamIAm said:


> Maybe this is a way of showing how powerful she is. She stares at a guy, so you notice. You get jealous. Then she gets to tell you how insecure you are.
> 
> Perfect way for her to put you down a few notches.
> 
> What you should do is go talk to the guy she is staring at. Tell him you are out on a date and wondering if your date is staring at him. Make a comment about how you want to dump her if she is flirting as you just started dating.


that is a good idea...however, its usually a guy and his girlfriend/ wife there too.hard to say that and get the other guy into **** aswell


----------



## Advocado

SadSamIAm said:


> Maybe this is a way of showing how powerful she is. She stares at a guy, so you notice. You get jealous. Then she gets to tell you how insecure you are.


:iagree:


----------



## SadSamIAm

starkness said:


> that is a good idea...however, its usually a guy and his girlfriend/ wife there too.hard to say that and get the other guy into **** aswell


Hard to believe she can get a guy to stare back at her when he is with a wife/girlfriend. Maybe she is the only one staring.

Just wait till the guy goes to the bathroom, then approach him.


----------



## starkness

SadSamIAm said:


> Maybe this is a way of showing how powerful she is. She stares at a guy, so you notice. You get jealous. Then she gets to tell you how insecure you are.
> 
> Perfect way for her to put you down a few notches.
> 
> What you should do is go talk to the guy she is staring at. Tell him you are out on a date and wondering if your date is staring at him. Make a comment about how you want to dump her if she is flirting as you just started dating.


believe me, she is not trying this to get me jelous....i have talked to her about this and she tries to actually hide the fact she does it....she thinks she is slick and always denies it everytime


----------



## starkness

SadSamIAm said:


> Hard to believe she can get a guy to stare back at her when he is with a wife/girlfriend. Maybe she is the only one staring.
> 
> Just wait till the guy goes to the bathroom, then approach him.


NO! when she is staring, i will look back directly in the direction she is looking and there is a man staring directly back at her.....usually they have a smug look on their face like they know that it bothers me....one guy actually was laughing to himself when he noticed that i noticed and looked back a few times


----------



## starkness

SadSamIAm said:


> Hard to believe she can get a guy to stare back at her when he is with a wife/girlfriend. Maybe she is the only one staring.
> 
> Just wait till the guy goes to the bathroom, then approach him.


sounds like a plan, might do that next time, approach the guy (take off my wedding band first) and say "hey man, i just started dating this girl, i wanna know if she is staring at you, i will dump her ass if she is" i will be friendly about it so the guy wont think that i will kick his ass or something......


----------



## SadSamIAm

starkness said:


> NO! when she is staring, i will look back directly in the direction she is looking and there is a man staring directly back at her.....usually they have a smug look on their face like they know that it bothers me....one guy actually was laughing to himself when he noticed that i noticed and looked back a few times


Sounds like it happens all the time. Sounds like she is making fun of you. She knows damn well that you know. You said it yourself that they 'have a smug look on their face like they know it bothers me'. 

That is why she is doing it! To make you look like a weak insecure man. Time to be a strong secure man. Ask the guy if your date is staring at him. If he says yes, then leave.


----------



## starkness

SadSamIAm said:


> Sounds like it happens all the time. Sounds like she is making fun of you. She knows damn well that you know. You said it yourself that they 'have a smug look on their face like they know it bothers me'.
> 
> That is why she is doing it! To make you look like a weak insecure man. Time to be a strong secure man. Ask the guy if your date is staring at him. If he says yes, then leave.


its not as easy as that...she is my wife!!! not someone im dating...or else i would have left a long time ago after the first incident..........i just need to make an informed and proper decision


----------



## somethingelse

starkness said:


> believe me, she is not trying this to get me jelous....i have talked to her about this and she tries to actually hide the fact she does it....*she thinks she is slick and always denies it everytime*


Not that slick. She gets caught every time. Wow does she ever sound like my husband


----------



## Faithful Wife

You say you have left a restaurant about this before.

What happened when you did that? She still denied it and just put it back on you?

Also you say you would have left a long time ago after the first incident if she wasn't your wife. Well, why didn't you leave after the first time she did it when she wasn't your wife? Or are you saying that she never did the until after marriage?


----------



## TCSRedhead

Just throwing out a suggestion - is it possible that she has some type of mental/emotional disorder?


----------



## starkness

Faithful Wife said:


> You say you have left a restaurant about this before.
> 
> What happened when you did that? She still denied it and just put it back on you?
> 
> Also you say you would have left a long time ago after the first incident if she wasn't your wife. Well, why didn't you leave after the first time she did it when she wasn't your wife? Or are you saying that she never did the until after marriage?


your right, she actually did this while we were not married many times, just looking back on it, if i would have known what i know now, i would have left a long time ago.........I left her once, but she begged me to come back a week later, and i came back, i once asked her (3 months ago) what are the chances we will make it in this marriage, i started and said 99% sure we will be fine........she said 50/50........that comment still crushes me to this day


----------



## starkness

TCSRedhead said:


> Just throwing out a suggestion - is it possible that she has some type of mental/emotional disorder?


that sounds possible, what kind are suggesting specifically? she was rapped in college 10 years ago, she also is a little bit chubby and has body issues. to the point were she doesnt take her shirt off during sex


----------



## starkness

somethingelse said:


> My husband used to do this practically everywhere we went because he was always seeking another woman and it fed his Ego


does this sound like she is seeking an affair or leaving me? or just to boost her self esteem?


----------



## TCSRedhead

starkness said:


> that sounds possible, what kind are suggesting specifically? she was rapped in college 10 years ago, she also is a little bit chubby and has body issues. to the point were she doesnt take her shirt off during sex


Meaning some type of social disorder that causes her to act inappropriately in public. 

I'd suggest taking this up in MC to see if it's indicative of some other type of problem. 

It's very odd behavior, with or without you present.


----------



## starkness

TCSRedhead said:


> Meaning some type of social disorder that causes her to act inappropriately in public.
> 
> I'd suggest taking this up in MC to see if it's indicative of some other type of problem.
> 
> It's very odd behavior, with or without you present.


no, there is no social disorder or anything like that....i just think that she finds other men attractive and loves the attention and gets a kick out of them staring back........but its not to get me jealous, cus she denies it everytime i confront her.........i sometimes feel as if she truly loves me, but is not in love with me...............


----------



## IsGirl3

she said there's a 50% chance she thinks the marriage will survive. that's contradicts how much in love you think she is with you. why does she say that. OMG I would be DEVASTATED.

Now that you know where she stands with the prognosis for longevity of the marriage, DO NOT have kids yet. you don't have kids when there's a 50% chance of divorce.

Since this issue is so troubling to you and even seems like your marriage is in danger, although she goes ballistic when you bring it us, you need to calmly tell her that in light of her saying that she things your marriage has a 50% chance of surviving, and since this staring issue troubles you so much, you are so serious about how much it bothers you, that you need to go to counseling because you want to save this marriage, before the %'s change from 50/50 to 60/40, 70/30 and divorce is looking very likely.

Good luck to you. She either has some optical problem, mental problem or is seriously testing you and disrespecting you. Try not to let her yelling shoot you down. You are right here and just because she's louder doesn't mean she's right.


----------



## starkness

IsGirl3 said:


> she said there's a 50% chance she thinks the marriage will survive. that's contradicts how much in love you think she is with you. why does she say that. OMG I would be DEVASTATED.
> 
> Now that you know where she stands with the prognosis for longevity of the marriage, DO NOT have kids yet. you don't have kids when there's a 50% chance of divorce.
> 
> Since this issue is so troubling to you and even seems like your marriage is in danger, although she goes ballistic when you bring it us, you need to calmly tell her that in light of her saying that she things your marriage has a 50% chance of surviving, and since this staring issue troubles you so much, you are so serious about how much it bothers you, that you need to go to counseling because you want to save this marriage, before the %'s change from 50/50 to 60/40, 70/30 and divorce is looking very likely.
> 
> Good luck to you. She either has some optical problem, mental problem or is seriously testing you and disrespecting you. Try not to let her yelling shoot you down. You are right here and just because she's louder doesn't mean she's right.


thank you for your comment....my thoughts exactaly.........we already been to a MC befre for communuication problems (arguments turned into screaming matches from both of us) we fixed that.....but, i guess there is a serious issue to figure out......if i dont get a solid answer from her infront of a MC then is that grounds for leaving for good this time? i love her so much and want to spend my life with her, but i am a strong man and will leave if this relationship is a dud


----------



## IsGirl3

you love her about twice as much as she loves you so you're really on unequal footing here. you need to find out what the problem is that she doesn't really think you guys are going to make it. you would never have married her if you knew those were the odds she gave this marriage for surviving. so there are at least 2 issues here - her major problems with the marriage that she thinks there's a 50% chance of divorce, and her staring problem with other guys. maybe she has really low self esteem and enjoys the attention.


----------



## somethingelse

starkness said:


> does this sound like she is seeking an affair or leaving me? or just to boost her self esteem?


It could be all three. She won't ever admit to it, so don't count on that.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Have your considered making eye contact with and ogling other women, then acting lile she's crazy when she brings it up? Then she'll see how it feels.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Theseus

The funny thing is, this is the very flip side of the other thread in this forum: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/83514-staring-other-women.html

In that forum, I thought the accusing wife was nuts. Here, however, if the OP is telling the truth, I think the accused wife is nuts. 

If you are certain she's not going to cheat on you, then the only reason I can think of is she likes to get men's attention to validate herself as an attractive person. The obvious remedies to that are to boost her self esteem, and make her feel more attractive. If that doesn't do it, then I would continue to walk away whenever she does this. Don't fight, don't yell, just walk. It's not cheating, so it's not worth getting into a shouting match over, but at the same time, there's no reason why you need to just sit back and let yourself be humiliated.


----------



## starkness

IsGirl3 said:


> you love her about twice as much as she loves you so you're really on unequal footing here. you need to find out what the problem is that she doesn't really think you guys are going to make it. you would never have married her if you knew those were the odds she gave this marriage for surviving. so there are at least 2 issues here - her major problems with the marriage that she thinks there's a 50% chance of divorce, and her staring problem with other guys. maybe she has really low self esteem and enjoys the attention.


yes, she has low self esteem, but her inability to deal with this is killing me aswell..........she is not doing this to get my attention, in fact, she denies that she does it and calls me insecure


----------



## starkness

lifeistooshort said:


> Have your considered making eye contact with and ogling other women, then acting lile she's crazy when she brings it up? Then she'll see how it feels.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


sounds like a plan actually, fight fire with fire....but instead of being revengeful, i would rather get to the bottom of this with a marriage counsellor and make my decision to stay or leave at that point.....dont want to be petty :/


----------



## starkness

IsGirl3 said:


> you love her about twice as much as she loves you so you're really on unequal footing here. you need to find out what the problem is that she doesn't really think you guys are going to make it. you would never have married her if you knew those were the odds she gave this marriage for surviving. so there are at least 2 issues here - her major problems with the marriage that she thinks there's a 50% chance of divorce, and her staring problem with other guys. maybe she has really low self esteem and enjoys the attention.


i broke up with her before and she begged me to come back, i did 2 weeks later.....she said she will never forget that i packed up and left, maybe she has some serious doubts that i will leave again and thats why she said 50/50 shot at making it work.........that accounts for the 50/50 comment, but how does that account for her lookin at other guys like that ? i am very numb right now


----------



## alte Dame

There have been a few threads here in the last 6 months or so that presented similar problems. One was a wife who stared at men's crotches; she was in her mid-50's and going through menopause & didn't appear to be cheating. Another was a wife who stared invitingly at men only when she walked in front of her husband, so that he could see the reaction of the men, but not her face.

All of these, including what your wife does, are dysfunctional. They are simply outside the bounds of standard 'looking at attractive people even when you are married' issues. If you've ruled out mental/emotional problems, then this is an issue of respect.

I would definitely insist that it be addressed with an MC. I would also stop her in her tracks when she tries to disarm you by telling you that you are insecure. I would say, 'No, this is a simple case of respecting me, your husband.' I would also insist that, as long as she persists in this behavior, that you she only gets to sit in a restaurant, etc. with her back to the other patrons. If you find yourself unable to do this, leave and find another place. If she wants to be provocative this way, she can deal with the consequences, in my opinion.

BTW, I would never tolerate this from my H. A continued show of disrespect like this would be a dealbreaker for me.


----------



## starkness

alte Dame said:


> There have been a few threads here in the last 6 months or so that presented similar problems. One was a wife who stared at men's crotches; she was in her mid-50's and going through menopause & didn't appear to be cheating. Another was a wife who stared invitingly at men only when she walked in front of her husband, so that he could see the reaction of the men, but not her face.
> 
> All of these, including what your wife does, are dysfunctional. They are simply outside the bounds of standard 'looking at attractive people even when you are married' issues. If you've ruled out mental/emotional problems, then this is an issue of respect.
> 
> I would definitely insist that it be addressed with an MC. I would also stop her in her tracks when she tries to disarm you by telling you that you are insecure. I would say, 'No, this is a simple case of respecting me, your husband.' I would also insist that, as long as she persists in this behavior, that you she only gets to sit in a restaurant, etc. with her back to the other patrons. If you find yourself unable to do this, leave and find another place. If she wants to be provocative this way, she can deal with the consequences, in my opinion.
> 
> BTW, I would never tolerate this from my H. A continued show of disrespect like this would be a dealbreaker for me.


yes, i can tell exactally where her eyes are going...the guy will be about 5-10 feet away...you can tell when she is lookin at their eyes...then, you can easily tell she is lookin at their crotches....happened just the other day in a restaurant......she looked in his direction more then at my eyes.......


----------



## starkness

alte Dame said:


> There have been a few threads here in the last 6 months or so that presented similar problems. One was a wife who stared at men's crotches; she was in her mid-50's and going through menopause & didn't appear to be cheating. Another was a wife who stared invitingly at men only when she walked in front of her husband, so that he could see the reaction of the men, but not her face.
> 
> All of these, including what your wife does, are dysfunctional. They are simply outside the bounds of standard 'looking at attractive people even when you are married' issues. If you've ruled out mental/emotional problems, then this is an issue of respect.
> 
> I would definitely insist that it be addressed with an MC. I would also stop her in her tracks when she tries to disarm you by telling you that you are insecure. I would say, 'No, this is a simple case of respecting me, your husband.' I would also insist that, as long as she persists in this behavior, that you she only gets to sit in a restaurant, etc. with her back to the other patrons. If you find yourself unable to do this, leave and find another place. If she wants to be provocative this way, she can deal with the consequences, in my opinion.
> 
> BTW, I would never tolerate this from my H. A continued show of disrespect like this would be a dealbreaker for me.


personally, i wouldnt bother having her sit facing away from others, that is creepy and controlling and it wouldnt stop it from happening when im not there.....i would appear as a control freak and would hurt the relationship......im the type of man that would rather leave then become a insecure control freak


----------



## somethingelse

starkness said:


> i broke up with her before and she begged me to come back, i did 2 weeks later.....she said she will never forget that i packed up and left, maybe she has some serious doubts that i will leave again and thats why she said 50/50 shot at making it work.........that accounts for the 50/50 comment, but how does that account for her lookin at other guys like that ? i am very numb right now


Sounds to me like she's using that time as a tool to guilt you. And in the meantime she feels that you leaving her justifies any action she chooses to take. AKA: having staring contests with other men. She's holding it all against you for her own benefit.


----------



## starkness

somethingelse said:


> Sounds to me like she's using that time as a tool to guilt you. And in the meantime she feels that you leaving her justifies any action she chooses to take. AKA: having staring contests with other men. She's holding it all against you for her own benefit.


thanks so much for the reply....only one problem......she has done this countless times way before i ever left....any ideas still?


----------



## somethingelse

starkness said:


> thanks so much for the reply....only one problem......she has done this countless times way before i ever left....any ideas still?


She's just like this then. Manipulative, selfish and self centred. But now she's using your leaving her as an excuse to act the way she's acting and not feel so bad about it. People like your wife are masters at using life situations as tools to support bad choices.


----------



## starkness

JustPuzzled said:


> Do you know any attractive women that you can trust to play a game? A work colleague, maybe? Your sister's (don't know if you have one/any) friend?
> 
> If you do, what would happen if you arranged to have this woman go to a restaurant, or even just to a bar for drinks, when you and your wife were there and you held eye contact with her for extended periods?


honestly, its embarrasing and dont want anyone to know, makes me look like a loser or something worse.......but that sounds like a good idea for revenge....to bad im not mean spirited


----------



## starkness

somethingelse said:


> She's just like this then. Manipulative, selfish and self centred. But now she's using your leaving her as an excuse to act the way she's acting and not feel so bad about it. People like your wife are masters at using life situations as tools to support bad choices.


but COULD she use this as an excuse to start cheating? she has been a lil different lately and is sorta secretive of her phone....she exits out of things and blacks out the screen so i cant see.....every time i say that she is acting suspicious she just insinuates that im insecure or completely wrong and jumping to conclusions.......also, her inbox is mostly empty for txts....she says its so there are not old txts cluttering up her phone...


----------



## IsGirl3

her behaviour is unacceptable, but even if it wasn't, she should stop because it troubles you, rightfully, so much. she lies like my 11 year old. he's so convincing i can almost believe that he believes his lies. if I didn't see things he did with my own eyes, I would totally believe him. but he's so good, i believe his has really and truly reworked it in his mind to believe that it is the truth, so it might be that your wife really and truly does not believe she is doing this. You know that she is lying, but does she know that she is lying? sounds like you need MC and maybe a psychiatrist to help her figure out why she is doing this.


----------



## starkness

somethingelse said:


> She's just like this then. Manipulative, selfish and self centred. But now she's using your leaving her as an excuse to act the way she's acting and not feel so bad about it. People like your wife are masters at using life situations as tools to support bad choices.


but what do you think was her excuse for lookin at guys before i left when there was no reason?


----------



## starkness

IsGirl3 said:


> her behaviour is unacceptable, but even if it wasn't, she should stop because it troubles you, rightfully, so much. she lies like my 11 year old. he's so convincing i can almost believe that he believes his lies. if I didn't see things he did with my own eyes, I would totally believe him. but he's so good, i believe his has really and truly reworked it in his mind to believe that it is the truth, so it might be that your wife really and truly does not believe she is doing this. You know that she is lying, but does she know that she is lying? sounds like you need MC and maybe a psychiatrist to help her figure out why she is doing this.


she knows exactaly what she is doing, and lies, we were already at a MC....guess its time to go again......yes it is unnacceptable and disrespectful and its when im there........i hate to wonder what its like when im not there.........


----------



## somethingelse

starkness said:


> but what do you think was her excuse for lookin at guys before i left when there was no reason?


My point is...there is no excuse for her behaviour. She is just like this no matter what. So it's not about her having an excuse. It's just that she likes to comfort herself with her man made excuse... and so... she CONTINUES to do this. I say continues, because she's done this prior to you leaving her. 

Before..when she didn't have "an excuse", she would just do it because it's what she likes to do. So either way, this is just who she is. You leaving was just like the cherry on top of her big cake that she's made up in her own mind (her longing to stare lustfully at other men...and who knows what else).

No excuse or self esteem issue justifies what she is doing.


----------



## Nucking Futs

starkness said:


> but COULD she use this as an excuse to start cheating? she has been a lil different lately and is sorta secretive of her phone....she exits out of things and blacks out the screen so i cant see.....every time i say that she is acting suspicious she just insinuates that im insecure or completely wrong and jumping to conclusions.......also, her inbox is mostly empty for txts....she says its so there are not old txts cluttering up her phone...


And suddenly the narrative changes and a red flag is introduced.


----------



## starkness

somethingelse said:


> My point is...there is no excuse for her behaviour. She is just like this no matter what. So it's not about her having an excuse. It's just that she likes to comfort herself with her man made excuse... and so... she CONTINUES to do this. I say continues, because she's done this prior to you leaving her.
> 
> Before..when she didn't have "an excuse", she would just do it because it's what she likes to do. So either way, this is just who she is. You leaving was just like the cherry on top of her big cake that she's made up in her own mind (her longing to stare lustfully at other men...and who knows what else).
> 
> No excuse or self esteem issue justifies what she is doing.


Thanks a lot, u are right, its who she is........easier to see it from an outside perspective I guess......if she does it cus of real low self esteem issues (gettin attention to boost selfesteem)then we can work on that....but if its cus of another reason, then or relationship will be smashed apart
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pink_lady

So...she gets angry and insults you, and tells you it's all your fault, your insecurity and your imagination when you call her out and ask her not to stare down other men right in front of you.

Classic gaslighting. 

But she loves you so much? I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound like it to me.

It sounds to me like she needs constant ego kibbles and does not care how it affects you. 

You are right to be upset- I would state the boundaries, then enforce them. If my spouse continued to do this it would be a dealbreaker for me.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

starkness said:


> but COULD she use this as an excuse to start cheating? she has been a lil different lately and is sorta secretive of her phone....she exits out of things and blacks out the screen so i cant see.....every time i say that she is acting suspicious she just insinuates that im insecure or completely wrong and jumping to conclusions.......also, her inbox is mostly empty for txts....she says its so there are not old txts cluttering up her phone...


:rofl:

You are a troll right?

Inventive original post, I must say. Now you add the topping to the cake, it a bit destroys the fun.


----------



## Advocado

starkness said:


> yes, i can tell exactally where her eyes are going...the guy will be about 5-10 feet away...you can tell when she is lookin at their eyes...then, *you can easily tell she is lookin at their crotches.*...happened just the other day in a restaurant......she looked in his direction more then at my eyes.......


And no doubt, many others present can see what she is doing and presumably some of these men become aroused. No wonder this is KILLING you. 



Assuming you are not a troll ... 

I was concerned with why she would seek such eye contact but having read the above I am now much more concerned as to why you tolerate it, even after you have asked her to stop. 

You deserve better. Sorry to ask, but where the hell is your self respect? Please look into yourself (get IC as necessary) coz it's essential you work out why you have been putting up with this extrememly degrading behaviour, (And she knows you will put up with this, even if she doesn't know the reason.)


----------



## Entropy3000

Theseus said:


> The funny thing is, this is the very flip side of the other thread in this forum: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/83514-staring-other-women.html
> 
> In that forum, I thought the accusing wife was nuts. Here, however, if the OP is telling the truth, I think the accused wife is nuts.
> 
> If you are certain she's not going to cheat on you, then the only reason I can think of is she likes to get men's attention to validate herself as an attractive person. The obvious remedies to that are to boost her self esteem, and make her feel more attractive. If that doesn't do it, then I would continue to walk away whenever she does this. Don't fight, don't yell, just walk. It's not cheating, so it's not worth getting into a shouting match over, but at the same time, there's no reason why you need to just sit back and let yourself be humiliated.


It is disrespeful and humliating to her husband. Not cheating ... LOL.

This behavior would be a dealbreaker for me.


----------



## Wiserforit

starkness said:


> she is not doing this to get my attention, in fact, she denies that she does it and calls me insecure


Boy do you have this wrong.

She does it to put you down, and the blame-the-victim attack about insecurity is proof of that. 

The denial is also part of the manipulation game. The object in the collection of tactics is to upset you and keep notching it up to the point of having you extremely upset. This is exercising power over someone and you can NEVER excuse this by claiming they have low self-esteem. What they are is cruel and malicious. 

You've done something extremely naiive: listening to words instead of watching actions. The words "I love you more than anything" come out of her mouth, but the actions are to grind you down into a pile of humiliated dust. That knowing smug look on the faces of these other men should be a huge blinking red neon sign for you that THEY get it even though you don't.

You have very little experience in this but I have a whole lifetime with it including diligent study. She not only knows what she is doing, but has the whole thing mapped out in a set of steps.

First the look, upsetting you. Then the denial that it is happening, upsetting you further. Then the accusation that you are insecure, upsetting you even more. That is a powerful one-two-three punch which can then either be directed towards more frustration or if she wishes - to turn on a dime and start laying down the false flattery about how much she loves you and would never do anything to hurt you.

There is a lot of joy in this kind of manipulation. Having you as her little puppet on a set of strings and bringing you up and down on the emotional roller-coaster ride. You don't see how vicious and calculating it is because you are too conscientious to perpetrate this on someone else. You project your own conscientiousness onto her and also excuse this savage behavior with the "low self-esteem" business. 

She doesn't view you as an equal nor a team-mate. She has an adversarial view of you in the relationship. This is a war she is engaged in, and she thinks your honest and trusting nature is a weakness. 

Never, never, never try to out-manipulate a manipulator. Do not play games, tit-for-tat, or revenge. The only thing you can do is give them choices along with consequences, and you have to be 100% ready to enforce them. You don't waste your breath reasoning with them, discussing, begging and pleading. Lay down terms and stop talking. They will try to wear you down, trick you with their lifelong skills at deception and subterfuge... the only response you should make is "that is my decision".


----------



## starkness

Wiserforit said:


> Boy do you have this wrong.
> 
> She does it to put you down, and the blame-the-victim attack about insecurity is proof of that.
> 
> The denial is also part of the manipulation game. The object in the collection of tactics is to upset you and keep notching it up to the point of having you extremely upset. This is exercising power over someone and you can NEVER excuse this by claiming they have low self-esteem. What they are is cruel and malicious.
> 
> You've done something extremely naiive: listening to words instead of watching actions. The words "I love you more than anything" come out of her mouth, but the actions are to grind you down into a pile of humiliated dust. That knowing smug look on the faces of these other men should be a huge blinking red neon sign for you that THEY get it even though you don't.
> 
> You have very little experience in this but I have a whole lifetime with it including diligent study. She not only knows what she is doing, but has the whole thing mapped out in a set of steps.
> 
> First the look, upsetting you. Then the denial that it is happening, upsetting you further. Then the accusation that you are insecure, upsetting you even more. That is a powerful one-two-three punch which can then either be directed towards more frustration or if she wishes - to turn on a dime and start laying down the false flattery about how much she loves you and would never do anything to hurt you.
> 
> There is a lot of joy in this kind of manipulation. Having you as her little puppet on a set of strings and bringing you up and down on the emotional roller-coaster ride. You don't see how vicious and calculating it is because you are too conscientious to perpetrate this on someone else. You project your own conscientiousness onto her and also excuse this savage behavior with the "low self-esteem" business.
> 
> She doesn't view you as an equal nor a team-mate. She has an adversarial view of you in the relationship. This is a war she is engaged in, and she thinks your honest and trusting nature is a weakness.
> 
> Never, never, never try to out-manipulate a manipulator. Do not play games, tit-for-tat, or revenge. The only thing you can do is give them choices along with consequences, and you have to be 100% ready to enforce them. You don't waste your breath reasoning with them, discussing, begging and pleading. Lay down terms and stop talking. They will try to wear you down, trick you with their lifelong skills at deception and subterfuge... the only response you should make is "that is my decision".


wow...that seems very correct, plus i might add that u are also correct about my loving and caring nature......i know that she knows exactly what she is doing in this marriage.....she has manipulated me from day one knowing my weaknesses.....also i always felt that i was never an equal and always along for the ride so to speak...if i try and gain ground on my position, she says stuff like im just being insecure and im making this stuff up in my head...recently there has been a few tell tale signs that i have been watching and I realize that I will be leaving my wife (second time now, 1st time she begged me to come back and that she would change and I believed her)....not anymore....i will be leaving her very soon and I am 100% firm on this...thank you so much for your input, all the best in the future


----------



## starkness

See_Listen_Love said:


> :rofl:
> 
> You are a troll right?
> 
> Inventive original post, I must say. Now you add the topping to the cake, it a bit destroys the fun.


are you ****ing kidding me??????a troll?? get the hell off of this website and let people with marriage problems get the help they need...why are you even here? to mock other people?


----------



## OpenandWilling

starkness said:


> Hello everyone, Thank you for taking the time to read this and help me.
> 
> I love my wife more than anyone else (including my own family, long story) however, she does something that gets me so mad I can become physically ill and mentally raged......when we are out at a restaurant or sitting down in public, my wife seeks out EYE CONTACT WITH OTHER MEN..... Im not talking about harmless looking (admit it, we are all human and have a normal wandering eye now and then) she actually will stare at other men and seek the eye contact out. I will look at her and she is staring at something, then I will say to myself, "I BET SHE IS LOOKING AT AND MAINTAINING EYE CONTACT WITH ANOTHER MAN".......Then I look directly in the direction she is looking in and.......IT IS A MAN LOOKING BACK AT HER AND DEEPLY MAINTAINING EYE CONTACT....... IT MAKES ME SICK (LITERALLY)....I have even gotten up and left the restaurant because of this...........Then, after I notice them exchanging deep eye contact, it will happen the whole time we are there...Its not just one or two looks, it happens the whole time. .....I don't think she has ever cheated, I have never cheated, we both love each other very much......but.......it bothers me so much....I AM EVEN GETTING PHYSICALLY ILL RIGHT NOW WHILE WRITING ALL THIS, THAT'S HOW MUCH IT HURTS..........I have, very calmly approached her on this topic (wanting to resolve it and let her know how much it hurts) but its all excuses like...."I'm not even looking at him" or "I cant even see that far" or "he isn't even good looking and you have nothing to worry about" or "it's all in your head" or "im lookin at the wall" or "which guy, i dont know what you talking about".......or a million other lame ass excuses.........if i dont drop it immediately after, she will get all defensive or angry saying that "I" am insecure, or making things up in my head..........It really insults my intelligence to hear that.........
> 
> I KNOW THIS IS A SOMEWHAT TYPICAL ISSUE IN SOME MARRIAGES, BUT IT'S REALLY KILLING ME TO THE CORE OF MY SOUL..............PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME, I AM MAN WHO IS LITERALLY DYING INSIDE MORE AND MORE EVERY TIME SHE DOES THIS.......


There's a game being played and it usually takes two or more to play a game. So don't play. When you go to restaurants read a book. And I mean read a book... only speak to her if she is speaks to you and is looking at you. I bet she tires when she sees you are not playing. If she gets mad then just tell her you are not playing her silly game anymore.


----------



## Round two

How did everything work out? I have the same problem with my wife and I've developed trust issues as a result. My wife responds in the exact same manner as yours. On one occasion the other guys girlfriend started yelling at him as to why he was starring back at my wife. My wife told me she was just looking at her kids. I think she does this to feel appreciated by men and has issues in her past (no father) that may be feeding this.


----------



## afriend23

starkness said:


> honestly, its embarrasing and dont want anyone to know, makes me look like a loser or something worse.......but that sounds like a good idea for revenge....to bad im not mean spirited


This is also happening to me and it also makes me sick as hell. My theory is seeking external validation for attractiveness aka low self esteem. Anyway, it's disrespectful and should not be tolerated. My advice is that, in her presence, pick the hottest girls you can find and purposefully and explicitly make and maintain eye contact with them and be sure to check them out long enough that she notices it. When she brings it up, play dumb and that will drive her crazy, with time, this behavior should stop. If not, leave. You are a faithful man who loves his wife and that's extremely valuable, and that is exactly why you do not have to put up with that crappy behavior. You deserve way better, my friend. Good luck and have fun teaching her a lesson


----------



## kingcharles

Hello i know its been a while since you posted but i was curious how things turned out .because im going thru the samething we been together for 20 years she always had this problem. i am just getting tired of it she always denied everything even when she getts caught


----------



## Unread suggestion

Hi mate, i just came across your post and am experiencing the very same issue with my partner. I feel like she wants to know she can have other men but never actually go through with it. They say, not sure who, women cheat on men they love the most. Seems like a narcissist may have written that. Please let me know if you are still together.


----------



## Fred0818

SadSamIAm said:


> Sounds like it happens all the time. Sounds like she is making fun of you. She knows damn well that you know. You said it yourself that they 'have a smug look on their face like they know it bothers me'.
> 
> That is why she is doing it! To make you look like a weak insecure man. Time to be a strong secure man. Ask the guy if your date is staring at him. If he says yes, then leave.


I am about to do the same. I have the same situation.


----------



## Fred0818

we married same woman and it sucks. She is 1 step ahead and always turns it back on me not trusting her.


----------



## NextTimeAround

SadSamIAm said:


> Maybe this is a way of showing how powerful she is. She stares at a guy, so you notice. You get jealous. Then she gets to tell you how insecure you are.
> 
> Perfect way for her to put you down a few notches.
> 
> What you should do is go talk to the guy she is staring at. Tell him you are out on a date and wondering if your date is staring at him. Make a comment about how you want to dump her if she is flirting as you just started dating.


No, I think he should engge in similar behavior as she and wait until she gets mad about it.


----------



## Amplexor

Zombie Thread


----------

