# I Wish She Would Cheat - almost



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

My marriage goes from great to horrible. Right now, it is horrible. For the last couple of months, the only times we have been intimate have been after I push and push and push and finally get 'duty' sex. Maybe every 10 days or so.

I try to establish boundaries, have a huge fight and try to explain that I won't live like this. But she doesn't listen or care. We are in the middle of one of those fights now.

How do you make someone care? How do you make someone want you? I have read MMSL. I am not Beta. I do some of those things. At times, I tell her, not ask her. I work out a few times a week. 

When we fight about it. She accuses me of only caring about sex. My kids are older (a couple out of high school) but they still live at home. They know that we fight about how cold my wife is to me (affectionately and sexually). 

How do you leave a marriage over sex? I feel like I will look like a shallow person. I am pro-marriage. Virtually nobody in my family is divorced. 

It would be easier if she cheated on me. I could leave the marriage with a 'valid' reason.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You can't make someone care 

You CAN control yourself and change your situation.

It's not shallow to leave over no sex from a woman perfectly capable of having sex. 

You have one life in this lifetime. I don't know how you want to live it, but this wouldn't be ok with me. When we got married, we didn't sign up to be ignore/rejected/have to beg for sex  I'd rather be single.

Do what you think is best, but KNOW that you can't make someone care. Listen to what she's saying...she doesn't care.

To me, that's not a marriage. It's a prison. You are legally binded to a person who treats you like you don't matter. That is awful.

I'm sorry...that sucks. I know that feeling.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I think sometimes people are just so far checked out of the marriage, there is no turning around. I'm not saying thats the case for you, but if you feel you have done or tried everything you know, then the main question to ask yourself, is, exactly what are you trying to hold onto? Do you feel its hope you're hanging on to? Hope things will change? I'm not saying thats always a bad thing, but there is such a thing as false hope.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

This is what works for me: Instead of asking your wife for sex, ask her if she will lay down with you on the bed. Hold her, talk to her, ask her how her day is/was. Get emotionally intimate with her before asking her to be sexually intimate with her.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

CallaLily said:


> I think sometimes people are just so far checked out of the marriage, there is no turning around. I'm not saying thats the case for you, but if you feel you have done or tried everything you know, then the main question to ask yourself, is, exactly what are you trying to hold onto? Do you feel its hope you're hanging on to? Hope things will change? I'm not saying thats always a bad thing, but there is such a thing as false hope.


I am almost 50 years old. I should have done something about this many years ago.

My choices are:

1) Leave. Which means giving half of everything to my SAHW. Also paying her Alimony for the rest of my life. Means instead of retiring in 5 years, it will be more like 10 or 15 years.

2) Stay. Get 'duty sex' every 10 days or so. Have a real loving relationship for maybe one week every month or so, because at times it can be good. Retire earlier and travel more with my wife. Maybe retirement will make us closer. Or worse .... who knows.

Right now, I am doing a 180. I am going to live for me. Make sure my kids are OK and try to do as much as I can outside the home. Maybe moving on (while staying married) will make my wife realize that she needs to put in some effort.

On Sunday, I leave for Phoenix for a week of golfing. Hoping the time away will make her think about us.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I am almost 50 years old. I should have done something about this many years ago.
> 
> My choices are:
> 
> ...


IMO, if my husband 180'ed me, I would ask him to leave outright. Doing a 180 when you are emotionally/sexually distant is like attempting to put out a fire with gas.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I hope she does think about 'you guys'.

I'm glad you are doing the 180. That's a good measure for yourself. Stop focusing on her so much.

Maybe ask her for an open marriage. I dunno. Probably not your thing. But if she's treating you poorly...maybe she wants you to leave?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

anony2 said:


> This is what works for me: Instead of asking your wife for sex, ask her if she will lay down with you on the bed. Hold her, talk to her, ask her how her day is/was. Get emotionally intimate with her before asking her to be sexually intimate with her.



This is what we do. But she avoids me. She stays up as late as possible so that I am either a sleep or if I approach her, she says it is too late and she needs to sleep. 

If I ask her to come to bed, she accuses me of only wanting sex. 

The last few times we have been intimate it has been like you say. Sunday morning, I wake up at 8am or so. I get up, have breakfast, watch tv or shovel the driveway or whatever. At 11am or so, I go back into the bedroom and hug her. She pushes me away. Gives me hell for waking her up. I continue to lay there with my arm on her. Eventually, she warms up a bit. We talk about things. The caressing leads to more and eventually we make love. By the way, the caressing is me rubbing her back or neck or legs. Usually she has something that is sore that I try to rub. She touches me very little. If I touch her breasts or between her legs too soon, she gets pissed off at me, so I am guessing what she wants. Usually, the first time she touches me is when she reaches for my c0ck. 

Sex happens, but not without a fight and not without me thinking that she didn't really want to. Even though she always gets her 'O', I still feel like it was duty sex.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

anony2 said:


> IMO, if my husband 180'ed me, I would ask him to leave outright. Doing a 180 when you are emotionally/sexually distant is like attempting to put out a fire with gas.


So what do you suggest? 

The more I try, the more she pushes me away!


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> So what do you suggest?
> 
> The more I try, the more she pushes me away!


Stop making it the main focus of your life. If you are hungry and you keep thinking about food, you will think of how much you aren't getting food.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

That's why he's going to start his 180. A 180 from his way of behavior now.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

anony2 said:


> Stop making it the main focus of your life. If you are hungry and you keep thinking about food, you will think of how much you aren't getting food.


That is easier said then done. 

Is your love language physical touch/intimacy?

We make love and I am fine for a few days. Happy! I am nicer to everyone at work and at home. I do more things for my wife, like help with supper and with cleanup. But after four or five days, I feel I need some affection. I approach her and get rejected. She starts to stay up late to avoid me. She gets cold and I get grumpy. Eventually, I get duty sex by pushing for it.

I have managed to do what you say for a month or so. What ends up happening is that we get more and more distant. My love language isn't being met. If I am reading 'her calendar' correctly we might end up having sex when she is ovulating (when she wants it).

Sex once a month is not the life I was hoping for or need to be happy. Duty sex 3 times a month isn't cutting it either. Thus my dilemma!


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> In an LTR the ideal emotional temperature is one that BOTH people are comfortable with. Couples often “fight” for decades over the “thermostat” setting. He likes it really warm and constantly shows and wants to be shown love. She is likes it cooler and dislikes constantly being barraged with “love” as it makes her feel emotionally crowded. She starts seeing him as “clingy and insecure” and she withdraws. He clings harder, she pulls back further feeling ever more crowded. Sex dies and he frantically tries to raise the temperature using an ever increasing stream of love. She loses respect and ends it or has an affair.
> When you overheat someone with too much love, THEIR natural reaction is to try to “cool off” by giving you less love and less OR by provoking conflict to get you to go BACK UP. And they often reduce/stop having sex with you because when they already feel overheated/claustrophobic the LAST thing they want is the intense closeness of sex. Below is an example of badly mismatched thermostat settings.
> 
> The WARM/HOT partner wants to “raise” the temperature so they:
> ...


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

It doesn't sound like it's only about sex, the affection part seems missing too, which seems to be another reason that disappoints you too.

Do you only get affectionate before initiating sex? Or when you are affectionate, most of the time is about sex?

Maybe you should talk with each other, and ask her why is she not into sex anymore. Is it due to lower sex drive due to her age? Or does she have any resentment towards you pent up over years? Or are you initiating things in the wrong ways or wrong occasions (she might not like being waken up in the morning)? Or does she feel that you're affectionate mostly for sex? Also, what do you usually do after sex?

There are many reasons that can affect a woman's interest in sex. If it's not a physical issue, then you need to figure out the emotional ones. Also, make sure to take care of the emotional bond before the sexual bond, sometimes without good emotional bond, women might not feel like having physical bond. And by thinking that men are only interested in their bodies it would make them less emotionally bonded.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> That is easier said then done.
> 
> Is your love language physical touch/intimacy?
> 
> ...


Believe me I get where your coming from, sort of in a simular siuation, but one thing I can tell you with out a doubt, the push and push and push for sex when she cleary dosent want to, is pure beta (been there done that) and the message it sends is we are weak and cant control ourselves and that my friend is a big turn off for women.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

strugglinghusband said:


> In an LTR the ideal emotional temperature is one that BOTH people are comfortable with. Couples often “fight” for decades over the “thermostat” setting. He likes it really warm and constantly shows and wants to be shown love. She is likes it cooler and dislikes constantly being barraged with “love” as it makes her feel emotionally crowded. She starts seeing him as “clingy and insecure” and she withdraws. He clings harder, she pulls back further feeling ever more crowded. Sex dies and he frantically tries to raise the temperature using an ever increasing stream of love. She loses respect and ends it or has an affair.
> When you overheat someone with too much love, THEIR natural reaction is to try to “cool off” by giving you less love and less OR by provoking conflict to get you to go BACK UP. And they often reduce/stop having sex with you because when they already feel overheated/claustrophobic the LAST thing they want is the intense closeness of sex. Below is an example of badly mismatched thermostat settings.
> 
> The WARM/HOT partner wants to “raise” the temperature so they:
> ...


That is my life. 100%

I have made her colder by constantly trying to make her warmer.


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## Speed (Dec 9, 2011)

anony2 said:


> IMO, if my husband 180'ed me, I would ask him to leave outright. Doing a 180 when you are emotionally/sexually distant is like attempting to put out a fire with gas.


So if he treats her like she is treating him he is wrong?



anony2 said:


> Stop making it the main focus of your life. If you are hungry and you keep thinking about food, you will think of how much you aren't getting food.



Ahh so he should continue to starve emotionally from her coldness, but he should just be more quiet about it? And obviously you aren't a sexual person. I am and I can't just "turn it off" to suit another.

Two choices left: 180 or divorce. You can hope that the 180 will wake her up to what she will be losing, but she may be too far gone. If it doesn't wake her up at least you will know where you stand.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> That is my life. 100%
> 
> I have made her colder by constantly trying to make her warmer.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html


read the whole thread, has some very good insight


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

strugglinghusband said:


> Believe me I get where your coming from, sort of in a simular siuation, but one thing I can tell you with out a doubt, the push and push and push for sex when she cleary dosent want to, is pure beta (been there done that) and the message it sends is we are weak and cant control ourselves and that my friend is a big turn off for women.


I understand that. But if I do nothing, nothing happens. Sexless marriage.

Part of my wife's problem is her childhood. Her dad was an alcoholic. He was verbally abusive. She was never allowed a boyfriend when in high school. If she went out, he would tell her she 'looked like a ****'. 

After I push and push and push and we make love. Often we will hold each other afterwards. And she will thank me for pushing for it. She will thank me for knowing her so well and for knowing that she needs to be pushed to be intimate.

She will tell me she is sorry and that she will put in more effort. It just never happens.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Speed said:


> So if he treats her like she is treating him he is wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My love language is acts of service, if my husband doesn't do these acts, does this mean that I get to betch at him constantly and nag him to do them and if he does do them after I betch at him, do I get to gripe and whine because he only did them because I wanted him to do them? Why/why not?

Unbeknownst to some on here, BOTH husband/wife are missing out in the intimacy here, not just the one that wants sex the most.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Only you can decide when the same battle you're fighting is over.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Your 50 years old, your kids are old enough to understand. You know what you need to do. Life's too short. Find happiness. Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

The fact that you are to the point of "wishing she would cheat" is reason enough to end this marriage.

Life is short. 

Truly.


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## Speed (Dec 9, 2011)

anony2 said:


> My love language is acts of service, if my husband doesn't do these acts, does this mean that I get to betch at him constantly and nag him to do them and if he does do them after I betch at him, do I get to gripe and whine because he only did them because I wanted him to do them? Why/why not?
> 
> Unbeknownst to some on here, BOTH husband/wife are missing out in the intimacy here, not just the one that wants sex the most.


Damn right you do. And if your husband gave a $hit about you he would realize that he is not taking care of your emotional needs. And if he doesn't give a $hit about you I would suggest you 180 so that you can began to detach. And maybe, just maybe, he will realize that you have stopped meeting his needs and you are pulling away and he might try harder to fix the problem.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

This is the double edged sword. You're not doing "enough" whatever that is being defined as. Therefore I am not sexually attracted to you. You do more and all of a sudden you're accused of only doing things because you want sex. Almost like it was your plan/suggestion in the first place. That's what they said they needed. So is the failure really part of your behavior or their's? 

The communication has failed. All the advice about an open dialogue or communication in marriage has just failed you. You become resentful or bitter etc not because you are not getting more sex ( although that might be part of it ) but because you feel betrayed by their answer. 
"But you said" comes to mind. 

This of course would make one think that they are the primary reason for sex failing in the marriage. This is not the case. 

Look closely at their behavior after the discussion. How are they behaving in order to better accommodate the relationship? Are they researching how to be more giving sexually? Have they stepped up at all? Is it all on you to change their behavior? Or is it merely a ploy to buy more time in an already failing marriage. They will after all play the "I'm feeling pressured" card. 

I believe they need to care enough about what you said and the relationship to make some real changes themselves otherwise you're pissing into the wind as it all comes back on you. 

Next you may be hearing that you should not expect them to change overnight. Ask yourself why not? You did. You've shown a commitment to their needs through actions. What real actions have they taken in order to show that they take what you said seriously? Trip to the doctor/health professional? 

Ultimately if they are not interested in changing the status quo because they are satisfied with the amount of sex they are having why should they change? After all their needs are being met and now even more so as you have stepped up on things they said they needed. Are they now backing out of the deal they suggested? 

A 180 is like gasoline on a fire. Perhaps what you need to shake things up. "It blow'd up real good" 

Athols MAP and the 180 have been suggested to you already. These techniques are not carved in stone so do as you feel appropriate for the situation.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Speed said:


> Damn right you do. And if your husband gave a $hit about you he would realize that he is not taking care of your emotional needs. And if he doesn't give a $hit about you I would suggest you 180 so that you can began to detach. And maybe, just maybe, he will realize that you have stopped meeting his needs and you are pulling away and he might try harder to fix the problem.


No, I don't. That is called controlling/being betchy if a woman does it...what is it called if a man does it?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> My marriage goes from great to horrible. Right now, it is horrible. For the last couple of months, the only times we have been intimate have been after I push and push and push and finally get 'duty' sex. Maybe every 10 days or so.
> 
> I try to establish boundaries, have a huge fight and try to explain that I won't live like this. But she doesn't listen or care. We are in the middle of one of those fights now.
> 
> ...


It is not about leaving the marriage over sex. It is about ending a marriage with a person that does not value your needs, does not care about you as a sexual being. It is all about disrespect and selfishness on the other persons part.

I left my marriage of 17 years due to lack of intimacy. It was not the act of sex, it was that he told me he loved me but then his actions did not match his words. 
If he truly cared about me he would have fixed it.

It is not about sex it is about your right to have a fulfilling life. 

I am in my mid 40's and can tell you that there is life after a sexless marriage. In fact there is an amazing life out there, please don't waste any more time. You deserve to be happy.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Holland said:


> It is not about leaving the marriage over sex. It is about ending a marriage with a person that does not value your needs, does not care about you as a sexual being. It is all about disrespect and selfishness on the other persons part.
> 
> I left my marriage of 17 years due to lack of intimacy. It was not the act of sex, it was that he told me he loved me but then his actions did not match his words.
> If he truly cared about me he would have fixed it.
> ...


Thanks Holland .... You are correct it is about intimacy. About being being cared about.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> Thanks Holland .... You are correct it is about intimacy. About being being cared about.


I really wish you all the best. It is a heartbreaking life to live. The person that is supposed to have your back, to love and respect you really does not care about your needs.

The emotional fallout for me afterwards has been pretty big. It is almost 3 years post separation (divorced 1 year) and I still have a lot of stuff to deal with. The blow this sort of life does to your self esteem is huge, don't underestimate how much damage is being done to you. 

Am in a wonderful relationship now and we are compatible which feels so good and so balanced.


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

Just tell her she's not honoring the vows she made to you:

"I, Ms. SadSamIAm, take you, Mr. SadSamIAm, to be my husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, as long as we both shall live."

Breach of contract.

Therefore, tell her you're going out to find another woman. Don't make anymore efforts to get affection from her. When you go out to find another woman don't answer her calls. Advise her this issue can be solved by actions of love on her part.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

anony2 said:


> IMO, if my husband 180'ed me, I would ask him to leave outright. Doing a 180 when you are emotionally/sexually distant is like attempting to put out a fire with gas.


So you just end up with a walk-away-husband if he took you on your word.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

anonim said:


> So you just end up with a walk-away-husband if he took you on your word.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That doesn't make sense, if you want to be closer to me, why turn your back on me? 

Seals & Crofts - Get Closer (with lyrics) - YouTube


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## Mishy (Mar 28, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> My marriage goes from great to horrible. Right now, it is horrible. For the last couple of months, the only times we have been intimate have been after I push and push and push and finally get 'duty' sex. Maybe every 10 days or so.


I am in a similar situation. Why is your marriage going from great to horrible? Is it only about sex or you guys fight just about anything?

IMHO pushing to get sex or being really nice to her (massages etc..) JUST to get sex is beta.
I used to do this before reading NMMNG, now I am not doing it anymore because I changed my way of thinking.
I think sex should be wanted by both parties. "Trying to convince" my wife to have sex with me it's a big turnoff for me.

Just to clarify, I don't think being nice to your wife and please her is wrong, we all need that in a "normal" relationship, but if you're doing it just to get sex, it's getting you nowhere. 



> I try to establish boundaries, have a huge fight and try to explain that I won't live like this. But she doesn't listen or care. We are in the middle of one of those fights now.
> 
> How do you make someone care? How do you make someone want you? I have read MMSL. I am not Beta. I do some of those things. At times, I tell her, not ask her. I work out a few times a week.


You cannot make someone change. You cannot make someone care. Did she care in the past? When did she change?




> How do you leave a marriage over sex? I feel like I will look like a shallow person. I am pro-marriage. Virtually nobody in my family is divorced.
> 
> It would be easier if she cheated on me. I could leave the marriage with a 'valid' reason.


You mention that nobody in your family is divorced and that you need a valid reason. It seems to me that you are somewhat afraid about being judged by your family and friends.
You have nothing to fear (I know, it's hard to believe), and if you decide to leave your wife, your family will still love you, as well as your friends.


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