# Who is more Naive, her or me?



## RS71 (Mar 20, 2014)

I could fill pages of the journey I've been on over the past few years, and how it has resulted in my wife sleeping in a hotel tonight 800 miles away with my wedding band on her finger, while I stay home to maintain an equilibrium for my 3 and 6 year old, who we both love dearly. I don't want to share pages, but I would like some consensus on what married men who sext married women really want, and what they are capable of. 

One week ago, I couldn't sleep. While up in the early hours of the morning I opened my wife's FB on her Iphone and saw that she had been chatting with a guy. I could fill you up with a lot of details, but that's not necessary for my question. The morning I found the messages was a Wednesday morning. The basic story is this, the guy is a high school friend and I believe they dated (20 years ago). Just like my wife and I, he is married with 2 kids, fortunately more than a 1000 miles away. Within a 4 to 7 day range the FB messaging went from how have you been, to how he would undress her, what, where and how he would kiss her various body parts, to talking about meeting in Toronto this summer, my wife would stay with a girl friend, etc. Toronto is not a place we ever go, and is a thousand miles away from either of the homes involved. Again I could give you pages of what we've been through over the last week. She said that when the went too far in the chat, they back up off,,, but she said she wanted to see him and would plan something.

After confronting her on Wednesday I had to go to work. She had a further IM on FB and had him call her. They spoke within an hour of me having left for work. I found out, and I confronted her. Friday morning after walking my daughter to her bus stop I came back in the house and said I needed 10 minutes to tell her where it was going to go if I hadn't stopped it. I said she would have snuck around finding times to chat. Every few days he would see if he could push the boundary again, and if she let him, he'd push it further. He'd convince her I was the devil reincarnated, say all the things she needed to hear about how he would treat her, and by the summer time he would have driven a wedge so big between us, she probably wouldn't be talking to me. Although she says she would not have slept with him, she says that now; by the summer it would likely have been a different story; and then she'd do her best to work me towards the big D. Turns out she called him again, on Friday about 2 hours after I layed out how I'm pretty sure things would go.(even after 48 hours of intense conversation, appologizing, promising, crying). Fortunately she only got his voicemail. I had called him on Thursday asking that he not take calls or emails from my wife, and not to try to contact her. Her basic excuse was 1) he was a high school friend with history 2) she wanted to see if she could preserve a friendship, watch his kids grow on FB, 3) she wanted to confront him and find out how much of what he said was true.

Here's where we differ. I maintain that progressing from Hi how have you been, to sexting, to lets agree on where we will meet in less than 7 days, is lightening speed fast. This guy had his game on; his primary motive was sleeping with her, not propering her up, restoring her self respect etc... She believes she should still be able to pursue a friendship. I think he would have said something reassuring so he could preserve his position, and come up with another play later. She also believes this is not cheating or the same as cheating. (she is however remorseful and clearly admitting she ****ed up). I think its naive to think this was in the pursuit of friendship. Am I naive in thinking this could have happened in less than a week.

Honestly would a guy who was encouraged to sext, stop under these circumstances? Would that interest dissappear.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

No, you are absolutely correct, many people here have been betrayed like that with that exact pattern, you did the right thing, and to be honest with you the only thing you missed was contacting the OM's wife so she can have him checked or to reaveal if this is his first attemp of affair (also to apply a little justice, she deserves to know the truth about the scum bag she married) .

this is what got me confused.




RS71 said:


> I could fill pages of the journey I've been on over the past few years, and how it has resulted in my wife sleeping in a hotel tonight 800 miles away with my wedding band on her finger, while I stay home to maintain an equilibrium for my 3 and 6 year old, who we both love dearly.


so she went to the trip to Toronto anyway?

this is dangerous, you may think that she already saw the OM for what he really is, but belive me this is not always true, in a way your wife is already emotinally engaged to that scumb bag, so they can still look for ways to communicate and to met in that trip. When people enter in this emotional affairs they don't think straigh, so be carefull, I think you are being overconfident, more if she was still looking for excuses to remain being "friends", when you already know the truth behind her attemps.

Danm, if I were you I will try to contact OM's wife just tell her everything and to verify if he did not travel at the same destitnation of your wife these days that she is on her trip.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

You should post this guy on CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know - or look him up on there. Your wife is naive.. Or making stupid excuses.. If she'll sext him, she'll screw him.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Hopefully you took pictures/ saved the chats? Yes, as said above, contact the OM wife. That's your best chance of getting him to leave her alone.

When it comes to EAs, 100 times out of 100 women never admit it would go physical. They are either naive or stupid. It's either "he's not like that he's a good guy" or "I can keep him away it would never get physical. He's a friend"

I'd have hired (and did hire) a PI to watch her while she is away. You are always going to wonder what's going on tonight in that hotel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

if you have proof of the texts/chats send them to the OMs wife


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

Why is she in a hotel 800 miles away? Did she go see him?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

If you do not blow up this POS with his W, you will be dealing with much larger problems very soon.

And Adeline has an excellent question.

How the he** did she get 800 miles away in a hotel so fast?

If she is there seeing him you had better start crushing both of them with full and complete exposure ASAP or your M will be history.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Adeline said:


> Why is she in a hotel 800 miles away? Did she go see him?


Yes, why is she there?


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## RS71 (Mar 20, 2014)

Here's is more of what I did. 

My wife is not someone who yells or is combative, she crys and generally stays silent, or says "I don't know" a lot. About 30 minute 30 minutes of grilling her(just after confronting her), I went upstairs, logged onto my FB account, found the SOB and invited him to be my friend on FB... I've never heard his name before, and only caught a glimpse of her messaging him a day or two before. Its the best warning shot I could send. This is what lead to them having a phone discussion a couple of hours later that morning. I told my wife that I had done it. I've told her about all of my moves directly before/after - to show her how transparency works. I've confronted her that I'm dissappointed that she didn't just freeze in her tracks that morning, she tends to freeze up when other tough situations arise... but I'm digressing

Sometime during the day (still Wednesday) he took down his FB page or blocked us both. Early, early Thursday morning I found his work number and extension (I knew from his FB where he worked). On my way to work Thursday morning I called his office but he wasn't in or didn't pick up. My message went something like: "This is X, I believe you know who I am and what this is about. I want to thank you for blocking FB from my wife and I, I think it was your best move given the circumstances. Now, please also remove or delete any other form of contact, email or messages with my wife, and do not contact her again. She has a good safety/support net without you involved. I'm a flawed man, lord I know that. But I've never propositioned another woman. Please stay out of my marriage. If not for me, do it for my children 3 and 6; please give them a fighting chance to have a healthy family environment. It wasn't hard to find you, and I know you can find me. If you need clarification, please call me back; or I will come by your office next time I'm in X." I'm hoping that freightened the hell out of him, but I'm not dumb enough to record a threat.

She is in another city now, because for the last two years I have tried to get her to go home to her parents for a week and think things through. We have been struggling. She needs her parents love and support, but I also wanted her to start to feel what I will be like to be away from her children. I am fully willing and able to have a 50/50 arrangement. She refuses to let her parents know we are struggling. So Wednesday morning when we weren't get too far, and we only had an hour before the kids got up, she did ask, what now, what do you want from me... besides repeatedly telling her that she behaved at a level I could never have done, and never thought she would do, I also said that she needed to go and do some thinking, get her priorities straight... I'm not accepting any more "I don't knows". I gave her until noon to decide where to go. I offered and encouraged her to go to 1) her parents, 2) to the city where SOB lives (she has lots of family there) 3)or somewhere else, but go somewhere and feel what 50% of your time will feel like moving forward. Also I have asked to be alone with my children for a long time... She is a dominating parent, and its hard to parent with her. I need/want some time for the kids to show that I they can rely upon me for everything, and don't need to check with Mom. Yesterday was a great day on that front, the kids and I are doing just fine.

She should have chosen 1). I was prepared for her to go to 2) knowing that this would be the most tempting - it was a test to see what she would do. I said go, be near him, decide what's right or right for where you are. 3) she choose somewhere nuetral. It is not Toronto, and not near where she knows anyone. That does not mean they could not have a rendezvous there, and that scares me... the story of when she picked the city, is in and of its self, suspicious. She picked it within 5 minutes of getting off the phone with him (I have records). She denies that her choice has anything to do with him, and contends it is far away from anyone she knows, and somewhere she can blend in.

On Wednesday morning I also demanded her FB password and her email password. She resisted, but didn't fully object. She said she would "take them down" when she's ready, etc. I said not good enough. By Thursday morning she through her phone over to me, and I've kept it. So her FB and Email and texting accounts haven't been shut off, but I can access them through her Iphone. She's pissed about this, but understands its a reasonable request, and she would have demanded the same. So while I can't prevent her from logging on somewhere, I can monitor. 

On Wednesday morning I had to react fast. Yes I could have taken an hour to determine how to copy the texts off of FB from an Iphone... I didn't have her FB password to get it from a computer. In a way I'm glad I don't have those messages, otherwise I would punish myself by reading them too much. I could easily convince her that they haven't dissappeared; she's naive about technology. She didn't realize that our cable provider logs the time, number and duration of every phone call in and out of our home phone. Hence why I know that he called (which she did not tell me).

I think she thought I was bluffing when I told her to leave, and then proceeded to buy her the ticket. She even went along and picked the flight and times. I think it shocked the hell out of her when I hit purchase. 

I also gave her my wedding ring and said wear it; wear it like I have every day in honor of our marriage. I said you gave it to me and there was a commitment and vows attached to it. You've broken that. Wear it as a reminder. And if you want to put it back on my finger, I need to hear and believe that there is a new commitment moving forward; a viable plan, something you are committed to. I will make some changes to, but you have to make amends, you need to take the next steps. I'm done with trying to provide all the solutions.

So now she sits where she can't see her children, wearing my wedding ring, and is alone with her thoughts. I think this is much more effective than having her be in our house distracted by the children, with all the conveniences and comforts of life that I have provided (we live well, and she stays home by choice, although I really don't allow anything for myself). 

She will not accept calls except for once a night at a specific time so she can speak with the kids and I. I'm trying to find the right way to handle these calls; so far I'm keeping pretty collected and down the middle. I do miss her, I do love her, I do hope she can put the ring on my finger; however I wan't accept it if the plan is only to get through this one incident and back to the struggling state of our marriage we had before. I wrote her a long letter of things she/we need to think about. I said that love must be unconditional, because I still love her; but living our lives together is now conditional.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

RS71 said:


> Here's is more of what I did.
> 
> My wife is not someone who yells or is combative, she crys and generally stays silent, or says "I don't know" a lot. About 30 minute 30 minutes of grilling her(just after confronting her), I went upstairs, logged onto my FB account, found the SOB and invited him to be my friend on FB... I've never heard his name before, and only caught a glimpse of her messaging him a day or two before. Its the best warning shot I could send. This is what lead to them having a phone discussion a couple of hours later that morning. I told my wife that I had done it. I've told her about all of my moves directly before/after - to show her how transparency works. I've confronted her that I'm dissappointed that she didn't just freeze in her tracks that morning, she tends to freeze up when other tough situations arise... but I'm digressing
> 
> ...



you gave her a pass and she grabed it, and your hoping that she is not going to do what she will. good luck.


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## RS71 (Mar 20, 2014)

Jack C... I might be that naive as well.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

dude you just give her a free pass to cheat and return to you, if she is emotionally engaged to him she will go straigh to him, she will think that you will not find even if she does something and she will think something like "I just need to get it out of my system and then I can return to be the same".

you think she will torture herself alone?, you are wrong, if that were the case then cheaters will think in their families while sexting, ploting how to cheat and thinking the lies they will invent, obviously they don't do this, they think that they will never be caught so they don't have to think about their family being hurt


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

RS71 said:


> Jack C... I might be that naive as well.



Dont know.... i (at this point) would not even talk to her, go 180 and starting to make her understand better filing for D.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

at least contact OM's wife to let her know that her husband is having sex with your wife at this moment


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

So... You bought and paid for a plane ticket that she used to go see her old boyfriend. Probably wouldn't have been my approach.

Look, her and other dude both have young families, and live 1000 miles apart. The EA probably would have fizzled out. Now they will hook up, with your de facto blessing. He has no intention of leaving his family, so she will come home to you, and now you must be prepared to deal with her PA(physical affair). What repercussions will she have? Will you ask her to leave the home? Divorce? What will your plan be?

In some ways situations like this are worse than if you caught a physical affair. Here, she was having an online affair, you knew and confronted her about it, she lies and then the affair turns physical. That would be too many dealbreakers for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

yes man, I agree with PhillyGuy13, you screw it monumentally, I have never seen a error as big as this one before, she will justify herself thinking that you gave her your blessing to get it out of her system and then return to you, that will be her argument if you find about the PA, but of course as any cheater she will deny everything until something is proved


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

I GUESS HIS STRAGEDY was to let her make her own bed.... hoping she would've not gone at all and comming clean apoligizing.... but she went anyway making you think she has to mindset. Now when she will have sex she has your blessings, and is justified if she comes back knowing that you were ok with it.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

jack.c said:


> I GUESS HIS STRAGEDY was to let her make her own bed.... hoping she would've not gone at all and comming clean apoligizing.... but she went anyway making you think she has to mindset. Now when she will have sex she has your blessings, and is justified if she comes back knowing that you were ok with it.


yes the problem here is that OP thought that his wife would do "the right thing thinking and reflecting on her actions and what she would lose", what he doesn't know (and is not his fault is not like you born knowing about infidelity) is that at this point were OM have her emotionally engaged dopamine act like a drug and she is a junky infautuated by the OM, she will seek OM and she will even convince him that is safe to meet because her husband bought the ticket knowing this would happen and gave his blessing, is sad.

*RS71 you had to much faith in ethics, morals and human behaviour, sorry but should have investigated more about affairs before doing what you did, my only advice here is to take her to polygraph once she returns and ask if she had intimacy with OM during her travel (unless you are alright giving her the pass but be certain that she will deny any kind of contact with him and will cover her alibi with friends or family)*


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

I am feeling really sad about this, I am going out for a while.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

What's done is done. As manticore said nobody is born to know about infidelity. And god forbid they teach you about this stuff in school.

Anyway, what do we do going forward? RS71 will need a plan of attack when wife gets home. I would at it cool, unless she confesses right off the bat. Monitor all devices. VAR in the car, search high and low for a burner phone. (You mentioned she left her phone with you- right?)

Is a PA a dealbreaker for you? There is no right or wrong answer to this. Some couples can handle this and reconcile, others cannot. For me personally a PA is devastating but the lies and deception are worse. Someone above may have mentioned a polygraph test, if you cannot get a confession ahead of time.

Marriages and families cannot survive secrets and deception. If you choose to you will need to start at square one with her to rebuild an open and honest relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

The OP is clearly correct. The he opened his wife's Facebook account on her mobile in the middle of the night rather suggests that he had suspiscions.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> What's done is done. As manticore said nobody is born to know about infidelity. And god forbid they teach you about this stuff in school.
> 
> Anyway, what do we do going forward? RS71 will need a plan of attack when wife gets home. I would at it cool, unless she confesses right off the bat. Monitor all devices. VAR in the car, search high and low for a burner phone. (You mentioned she left her phone with you- right?)
> 
> ...



well.... me you and manticore already know what will be....
Also, i think she will take off that wedding ring before the PA, then when she see's that ther will be no future with him, she will come back and put it on his finger.
MAN I'M TRIGGERING BAD


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

OP has done a pretty good job considering he figured things out on his own. His wife is at an age in her life that the liminal imagination has begun to think about another man's semen. The POSOM picked up on this and moved in. If OP had not been on the ball and picked up on it, she might have had the affair. Whether or not he would ever have found out about it or not is uncertain. It would have further disturbed his marriage.

Right now he has his wife's attention and she understands consequences are coming if she wants to have heart to heart, skin on skin friends to support her emotionally.

The question now is if she meets OM for some true love, how will he know? And what will he do?

I have feeling that the look in his wife's eyes will tell him everything when she gets back. If she has a sex drunk look on her face, then he should file for divorce. If she cries and is sorry, he needs to find out what she did for a week. Will her story be that she went to library, museums and shopping in Toronto?

Giving her the ring to put on was perhaps good, perhaps bad. Women love romantic symbolism. Maybe it will entertain her. Will it raise the OP's sex ranking to turn the decision over to her. Probably not.

OP should most definitely contact OM's wife.

OM can go on to Cheaterville as soon as possible.


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## RS71 (Mar 20, 2014)

Lets see if I can clarify, She is in Montreal. I offered to send her directly to where she could have easily met with him. In fact she picked what should be neutral. One thing under consideration was that if she had not left, I would have had to have left with the children, which is exponentially harder given their routine and resources are all based in the marital home. To connect, he would need to take a trip in the middle of the week to a city he does not work in.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

There are many threads on here that will show you how to break an affair.

The way it is done is by exposing to his wife / friends family and your wife's friends / family etc in a nuclear fashion. When the rats are scrambling to do damange control they don't have the time to continue their affairs.

Read, plan, act. You are doing it backwards. Sending her away doesnt' make sense.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Hon, neither of you are naive. Your wife is full of sh!t with her "friendship"; she knows what's going on and likes the attention, and figures with some water works she can come back to you. And yes, the water works are deliberate; liars can turn them on and off as it suits them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

So far you have done everything wrong........as in epic fail. What you did was tantamount to setting a bag of heroin in front of a junkie and telling him not to touch in the two weeks you will be gone.

Contact his wife now.

Put him on cheaterville.com now.

Send all three the link.

Turn find my phone on your wifes phone so you can track her. She is surely smart enough to contact him with a different phone.

Watch credit card charges.

Inform inlaws of her online affair.

If you pull this off we can call you Houdini.

She laughed as she pulled her and your wedding rings off before she had her seat belt buckled.

Ordinarily a woman would not consider leaving her kids for two weeks unless she was in...............lo, er, heat.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

RS71 said:


> Lets see if I can clarify, She is in Montreal. I offered to send her directly to where she could have easily met with him. In fact she picked what should be neutral. One thing under consideration was that if she had not left, I would have had to have left with the children, which is exponentially harder given their routine and resources are all based in the marital home. To connect, he would need to take a trip in the middle of the week to a city he does not work in.


Yep, naive doesn't begin to cover it. Neutral but handy? Not her first choice but better than nothing.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Exposure of the Affair especially to the OM wife. Make the phone call NOW.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I live three hours south of Montreal. It is a very easy city to get in and out of, planes, trains, or automobiles. Who knows what this guy told his wife as far as a client emergency or whatever excuse. Interesting that she chose one of the most romantic cities in North America for her neutral getaway.

You are going to get a TON of advice on here that you do not want to hear. If you want to save your marriage, and more importantly your sanity do yourself a favor and listen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Can you afford a PI?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

We're not trying to be hard asses here. What you have done has put us into shock.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Cheaterville and OM's wife asap.

OP is not a weakling. He will respond to advice.

RS71,

Your wife is in lust with another man who is telling her how beautiful she is, not just her body but her very soul. He wants to connect with that soul via her vagina. She is naive but accepts his logic and is eager to give it a try. Unfortunately, for the meeting of their souls, you do not want to raise the OM's child.

Ultimately, it is the plan of WW to foist the OM's child on her BH in secret. In age of birth control your WW is only thinking about sexual and emotional pleasure, but evolutionary trick she is playing is clear: she wants to cuckold you.

Your message so far was to remind her of your existing children. You have explicitly served notice that they will suffer if you divorce. She not listen. Call her parents and let them give her the same message. 

Riding the new pony will not be as much phone if mom and dad are lighting up her phone to cøckblock.

If the OM's wife is calling, that could cause erectile dysfunction.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Good God you really f'ed this up. She selected a random city after talking to him and you just let that happen? What the hell, man!

Get in contact with his wife. If she can't confirm absolutely that he's not in Montreal, as in there with her, you can be sure he's with your wife. Do whatever it takes to contact his wife. Do it now. Take the day off from work, this is the most important thing you have going right now.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Cheaterville and OM's wife asap.
> 
> OP is not a weakling. He will respond to advice.
> 
> ...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

GAH! Ok dude you were ahead of her now you are behind her. Hopefully I can get some vouches here I am pretty much one of the best on the intel and logistics end.

I get your strategy but.... sigh.

You need to get back ahead of her.

You did save the conversations? If not save them one on USB stick one in cloud.
Some questions.
1) Was he the primary pusher?
2) If 1 above is yes, how much resistance did she provide?

HIRE A PI NOW!!!!
failing that
Below is the paste of my standard instruction set. Do the VAR part and the Google history part.
How long from time 0 to:
inappropriate?
outright sexual? (these are times not details)
Did he nude send pics?
Did she send nude pics?

Paste 

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history! 

Credit tacoma 03072014

This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history

Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything she has said into the phone is right here.
I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to.

Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS.

Edit: It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh and call his office. Ask THE SECRETARY if he is in the office. You need intel and fast.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Listen to weightlifter... Get your kids to school then if anyway possible take the next day or two off work.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Thinking that she's sitting alone pining regretfully for her betrayed husband and children is wishful thinking at best.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

RS71 said:


> I could fill pages of the journey I've been on over the past few years, and how it has resulted in my wife sleeping in a hotel tonight 800 miles away with my wedding band on her finger, while I stay home to maintain an equilibrium for my 3 and 6 year old, who we both love dearly. I don't want to share pages, but I would like some consensus on what married men who sext married women really want, and what they are capable of.
> 
> One week ago, I couldn't sleep. While up in the early hours of the morning I opened my wife's FB on her Iphone and saw that she had been chatting with a guy. I could fill you up with a lot of details, but that's not necessary for my question. The morning I found the messages was a Wednesday morning. The basic story is this, the guy is a high school friend and I believe they dated (20 years ago). Just like my wife and I, he is married with 2 kids, fortunately more than a 1000 miles away. Within a 4 to 7 day range the FB messaging went from how have you been, to how he would undress her, what, where and how he would kiss her various body parts, to talking about meeting in Toronto this summer, my wife would stay with a girl friend, etc. Toronto is not a place we ever go, and is a thousand miles away from either of the homes involved. Again I could give you pages of what we've been through over the last week. She said that when the went too far in the chat, they back up off,,, but she said she wanted to see him and would plan something.
> 
> ...


I always like the "front page" approach to things. 

If you're not doing anything wrong and it's "okay" then it should be allowed to be posted on the front page of the newspaper. 

Tell her if she's so interested in his kids, she should become friends with his wife too. They are 50% her. Maybe she should even share their chats with her.

PS obviously she won't but YOU NEED TO. Find out who his wife is (shouldn't be hard on facebook) and forward copies of their chats. Explain that you're trying to deal with your wife on it but she should know about her husband.

PS wait until the fireworks start on that one when this guy dumps your wife like a hot potatoe because she just became a liability.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Wow.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

The first part of what you did was spot on, the second not so sure. You're on the right track, but she is a fog so to speak. Things get crazy if one or both are in it. Foot down and put this through the uprights. Expose, the quickest least destructive part. That hopefully stops the contact. No need for other crap, when you are trying to get to the bottom of things. If she goes through with it, which maybe it has. Not sure from where I'm standing. No free passes, no leaving for days. You want to repair this, then lets get to gettin. If not move your junk out. Myself, I will not reconcile. My mind movies would kill what's left of our relationship. Some do "R" and are in the strongest, most wonderful relationship. I have seen it. Some don't, because they can't. Sometimes destroyed means just that. Maybe for a reason. Bottom line, don't let her walk on you. You already know the right thing to do. Just get to it. The rest will fall into place. Good luck.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

This thread it too confusing to me. Can someone break this down for me?

Jack's wife cheated and......????

Jack, just call the guys wife.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I am not absolutely clear on what happened here. Here is my take on it and OP please correct me if I am wrong (there will be gaps in my understanding for sure):


You and your wife have 2 kids aged 6 and 9 - so you have been together at least 9 years (more ?)
Before she met you (20 years ago) she dated scumbag in high school
Scumbag is married with 2 kids and lives over 1000 miles away from you
I am guessing you live in Northern Canada since you go south to Montreal and Toronto - is he in Canada too (west vs east coasts)
You and her do not have a great marriage ? for whatever reasons 
Last week you find that she has been texting and then sexting with this scumbag via FB on her iPhone
Within 4 - 7 days this went from normal stuff to highly sexual stuff with him being the initiator
They then planned to meet in Toronto (a place you never go to) to consummate this and she would use the ruse of visiting and staying with a girlfriend
You confronted her (on Wednesday) - not sure what this means or what was discussed - intense conversation ??? grilling ???
You befriended him on FB finding out also where he works etc
She called him after you left for work
He then took his FB account down and then blocked both, you and your wife
You called him at work on Thursday and left a voicemail asking him to leave your wife alone and not to mess up a young family
You talked to her to explain things again on Friday and she agreed to what exactly ?
She said that she would not have slept with him and was only meeting up because she should be able to pursue "normal" friendships with old friends (by meeting them in secret ???)
She called him again on Friday despite the crying, promising, intense conversation
You cannot convince her that he is a predator and was trying to get into her pants ??? (really ??? even though she was arranging to lie to you and meet up with him ???)
She is non confrontational and bottles feelings up
You sent her to her parents (wearing your wedding ring) in Montreal to think about things without the children or you
While there she will only accept calls once a day at a specific time to talk to you and the kids
You are assuming that since it is the middle of the week and he has no business in Montreal (and lives 1000 miles away) he and she will not meet up
You are hoping this is somehow going to help your marriage ???

There are still many questions like whats your marriage like, how long has she been feeling like this, does she accept that this is an affair (EA albeit so far), does she accept that meeting up with him in Toronto does not support the just friends explanation she is giving you etc. On the face of it, if I were to guess, I would guess two things:

your marriage is not great but possibly fixable, when along comes predator POSOM and your wife is weak and goes for it.
you haven't got a clue as to what to do about it so you send her to her mothers home somehow hoping that by giving her space and time to think, she will fix herself.

Have I got this mostly correct ? Without more information it is difficult to give you the right advice so we can only guess at things.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

OP caught his wife in a EA with old (20years) ago boyfriend. he lives 800 - 1000 miles away.

he the tells her to leave and buys a plan ticket and she pick a city close (drive time) to OM.

She is in a FOG from the EA it is only going to get worse with a PA.

I guess if you plan on D then well IDK, But if want to R go get her NOW and Please for God sake tell the OMW.

Bust her out of the FOG do not push her more into it.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

convert said:


> Jack caught his wife in a EA with old (20years) ago boyfriend. he lives 800 - 1000 miles away.
> 
> he the tells her to leave and buys a plan ticket and she pick a city close (drive time) to OM.




:wtf:



If this is the case then maybe the best action should be to just go ahead an file for D I mean the OP basically gave his wife a hall pass to bang the other man and if that is what happen then its *game over man* the op wife EA has probably gone PA by now and will be that much more harder to break the fog.


I say file for divorce and cover your a$$


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I believe OP wanted her to go to her parent's home, but she choose a "neutral site" city - Montreal - where there were no friends or family around.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I believe OP wanted her to go to her parent's home, but she choose a "neutral site" city - Montreal - where there were no friends or family around.


Yeah and I bet we know why to.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

xakulax said:


> Yeah and I bet we know why to.


Not for the beautiful spring weather, believe me.

OP- is there a connection to Montreal that we are missing? An old friend from college? A cousin? Why did she pick this destination?

From your timeline it sounded like she called him, got off the phone, and a few minutes later asked you to book her a flight to Montreal. What did she say was the reason for choosing that city?


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

This is why i'm not in favor of just kicking out WS with an EA it just push them closer to there AP and to a PA.I believe in the three prong strike method or as i call it shock and awe when dealing something like this.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

HE GAVE her 3 options buying her the ticket, this is what he said:

1) her parents, 2) to the city where SOB lives (she has lots of family there) 3)or somewhere else, but go somewhere and feel what 50% of your time will feel like moving forward. Also I have asked to be alone with my children for a long time...

she decidedfor somewhere else..... but not far from OM


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

xakulax said:


> This is why i'm not in favor of just kicking out WS with an EA it just push them closer to there AP and to a PA.I believe in the three prong strike method or as i call it shock and awe when dealing something like this.


:iagree:

If anything I would pick a city/location farther away from POSOM
like maybe siberia
or no wait....Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

convert said:


> :iagree:
> 
> If anything I would pick a city/location farther away from POSOM
> like maybe siberia
> or no wait....Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan





The fact that she picked that location says a lot its not far from the OM and she has family or friends there for an alibi to cover her a$$ if questioned. If she really wanted to go some where to get her head on straight she should gone to a close friends house near by this way she can be away from home and close enough for the OP to monitor


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2012)

Wow. This is a very interesting approach. It is different than the majority of the recommendations you'd get here for affair-busting. Usually, exposure to her parents, your parents, and the OMs wife would create so much embarrassment that it chases the fog. As someone (LW?) previously mentioned, it's hard to keep your head in the game of soulmates, "Forever" and rainbow-colored unicorn droppings if your phone is blowing up with calls from her sister, mom and OM's wife, all saying, "WTF are you doing??"

While a mite better than the usual alternative we see here - where the BS is so paralyzed by love, fear, regret, anguish and guilt that they do nothing and allow the OM to teach the wayward how to cake - eat...I question the validity of the OP's approach. For this reason.

possibility 1)
Wayward wife is essentially a nice, gentle, kind person with a thoughtless streak. She allowed the OM's statements "I need you, I want you, I've always needed you, please...etc" to sway her without thinking of her family. In this case, the shock of sitting in a hotel room, with her husbands ring on, marriage on the rocks and away from her babies, might do the trick. She might come home penitent, cut off all communication with him. If you set crystal clear boundaries for her when she gets home, and she adheres to them AND you monitor her for a few years, you might get through this. 

possibility 2)
Wayward spouse is already off her leash. She is a naughty girl who was just looking for excitement. As some of the men noted, women of this age and who have been married for some period of time, are often out looking for "Strange", um, input. As a female, I say that I have seen this happen. If so, OP's idea will not work. She will be enjoying the hotel with OM. Hopefully will not come home pregnant. 

Only OP knows her well enough to say if she's calculating and callous enough to do this. Plenty of women are, sorry to say.

Only time will tell. I do not think are you are naive. I think you are doing the best you can.

For safety's sake, expose her. Her own parents and your parents. Tell the other man's wife, she has a right to know.

Enjoy your kids and employ the 180. IMHO she does not deserve you, but I have seen how awful it is to think you might have to split from the children's other parent. It sucks.

Best of luck.
-FH


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## RS71 (Mar 20, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> I am not absolutely clear on what happened here. Here is my take on it and OP please correct me if I am wrong (there will be gaps in my understanding for sure):
> 
> 
> You and your wife have 2 kids aged 6 and 9 - so you have been together at least 9 years (more ?)
> ...


You haven't missed a beat. I'm home with the kids, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife. I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.

On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.

If I only have access to her FB on her Iphone, how do I capture a copy of those exchanges, if they continue?


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2012)

RS71 said:


> On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.



Just a minute here. Who is wrecking his family? You??? Or _him_, with his vile actions? 

What if your wife is not his only target? What if he's a serial cheater and is taking diseases home to his wife? The speed at which he went from "Hi" to "have sex with me" suggests that he gets around.

YOU would not be wrecking his family. HE is already doing that. You're just pulling the blindfold off the poor woman's eyes. Thinks about it.

Respectfully,
FH


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## Differentguy (Oct 3, 2013)

RS71 said:


> You haven't missed a beat. I'm home with the kids, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife. I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.
> 
> On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.
> 
> If I only have access to her FB on her Iphone, how do I capture a copy of those exchanges, if they continue?


Why do you not contact his wife? Why is it considered the moral high ground in your opinion to not contact his wife immediately to let her know what is going on? If one of your friends knew what your wife was doing, but didn't tell you about it, would you thank them for taking the moral high ground?


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Foghorn said:


> Wow. This is a very interesting approach. It is different than the majority of the recommendations you'd get here for affair-busting. Usually, exposure to her parents, your parents, and the OMs wife would create so much embarrassment that it chases the fog. As someone (LW?) previously mentioned, it's hard to keep your head in the game of soulmates, "Forever" and rainbow-colored unicorn droppings if your phone is blowing up with calls from her sister, mom and OM's wife, all saying, "WTF are you doing??"
> 
> While a mite better than the usual alternative we see here - where the BS is so paralyzed by love, fear, regret, anguish and guilt that they do nothing and allow the OM to teach the wayward how to cake - eat...I question the validity of the OP's approach. For this reason.
> 
> ...



From what I have seen of most EA I think possibility 1 is A rainbow-colored unicorn


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## Differentguy (Oct 3, 2013)

One other thing. You are in the fight of your life to save your marriage. The best ammunition you have right now is to contact his wife. What if he told her he had a business trip to take to Montreal? His wife should be your best ally in this fight.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

RS71 said:


> You haven't missed a beat. I'm home with the kids, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. * I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife.* I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.
> 
> On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. *I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.*
> 
> If I only have access to her FB on her Iphone, how do I capture a copy of those exchanges, if they continue?


Don't ever "warn" him that you'll call his wife....just do it. Why give him adequate time to concoct some story to feed his wife. You're really screwing up if you don't expose this POS to his wife. And stop thinking "you're" breaking up his family. This is all about the POS and your wife, not you. Would you appreciate it if the POS' wife knew about the sexting and didn't inform you, leaving you in the dark? The moral highground is telling the guy's wife.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Your wife at the very least was in an EA. I would not hold back on exposure. I would tell that POS OM's wife what has gone on. Exposure kills all types of A's

Do not tell your wife what is going on or what you are going to do. You may think you have control of her by holding on to the phone but she can pick up a burner phone at the local stop n go.

Expose this thing and get her home. Set up an appointment with an MC if you want to rebuild your marriage.

Get it done my friend and do it now


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

RS71 said:


> You haven't missed a beat. I'm home with the kids, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife. I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.
> 
> On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.
> 
> If I only have access to her FB on her Iphone, how do I capture a copy of those exchanges, if they continue?


Are you for real?

Are you reading any of these responses?

Contact the guys wife NOW. 
You basically paid for your wife to consummate her affair.

Wake up.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

RS71 said:


> You haven't missed a beat. I'm home with the kids, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife. I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.
> 
> On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.
> 
> If I only have access to her FB on her Iphone, how do I capture a copy of those exchanges, if they continue?


point 1) you need to contact the wife and tell her.
point 2) you bet your ars that she learned more about you!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The moral high ground is letting his wife live in the dark? Interesting moral code you have there. 

Anyway if you need to keep him out of the equation you need to understand that you're doing it wrong. I'd be shocked if he hasn't already tapped it by now. Certainly by the end of the weekend.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> The moral high ground is letting his wife live in the dark? Interesting moral code you have there.
> 
> Anyway if you need to keep him out of the equation you need to understand that you're doing it wrong. I'd be shocked if he hasn't already tapped it by now. Certainly by the end of the weekend.


Right??!!

I'm having a hard time believing this...it's like the *worst* possible move...sending his wife to where she can easily be with the guy.

It's completely senseless.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

One of the fundamental rules when discovering that your wife is in an affair is to c0ckblock. What you did when you clicked purchase for the plane ticket is, uh....c0ck.....enabling.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

RS71 said:


> You haven't missed a beat. I'm home with the kids, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife. I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.
> 
> On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.
> 
> If I only have access to her FB on her Iphone, how do I capture a copy of those exchanges, if they continue?


Stop talking to HIM! That's like planning out your offensive strategy WITH the captain of the defense you're playing against.

START talking to HIS WIFE! The NEXT conversation that needs to happen is to talk to his wife. DUDE this is war. He's invaded your family and is trying to take your wife. FIGHT BACK!

PS why couldn't your wife just have gone down the road to the Motel 5? You know, $59.95 per night for a weekend and see what it's like. If that was your true goal.

You sent her ON A VACATION making it easy to cheat?!?!

I'm guessing your wife had some input on the "plan" you're implementing.


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2012)

Easy with the clue bat, guys. I think RS knows the implications of sending her to a distant city all alone. I think he's hoping she'll make the right decisions and be lonely. She may not.

I still wish you'd contact OM's wife, though, my friend. If my best friend was getting cheated on, and I knew, I would tell her. How awful to be the "last to know."

In any case, we are in your corner. Keep visiting and tell us how you do. I think you're mentally doing fine, which is good to see. But don't feel like a homewrecker. You're not one.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

The moral high ground would be to contact his wife by doing so you are protecting you marriage and by extension maybe even his marriage.

If you want your marriage and wife back bust this and bust hard.

go get your wife now, if you can't leave call her and act panicked and say we have an emergency and she needs home right-a-way and don't tell what.

I now this maybe extreme by you kind of do have an emergency to keep your marriage.

I agree it maybe to late. 
How long has she been gone?
they mat have already taken it physical


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

RS71 said:


> You haven't missed a beat. I'm home with the kids, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife. I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.


Do not give him warning that you may call his wife. That allows him time to concoct a cover story, and throw you and your wife under the bus, not that she doesn't deserve it.

EDIT: what cubby just said.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

RS71 said:


> You haven't missed a beat. *I'm home with the kids*, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife. I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.
> 
> On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, *but I need to keep him out of the equation*; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.
> 
> If I only have access to her FB on her Iphone, how do I capture a copy of those exchanges, if they continue?


"keep him out of the equation".... You bought her a plane ticket to be physically closer to him. You've most likely ensured that he's IN the equation.

When she gets home, I wouldn't have any unprotected sex with her until she gets a STD test. You've given her a pass to have sex with another man. And when you get the proof, she's going to say that you gave here permission.... And you did.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Ok, you've sent your wife to the briar patch. Now what?


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Sadly it sounds like most threads. Most of you are just wasting your time. 

Clay


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Ok, you've sent your wife to the briar patch. Now what?



HE'S WAITING THAT SHE COMES BACK FULLY REMORSFUL and with the wedding ring. 
I think she will come back but more for the kids...... and also sadisfied


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Worst thing than cheating is to carry it right under the nose of BS after getting caught. You busted her EA she continued contacting OM and talked over phone with him, even after you giving lectures about fidelity, hurt and how it affect children. 

She choose to go away from you on a vacation even after seeing you hurt. If it was someone else they might have been sobbing and crying their eyes out apologizing for the hurt they caused but she choose to go to vacation and that too to a romantic place easily approachable for OM.

Are you sure that OM is not posting on face book right from her bed as both knows you will be watching her FB?


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

RS71 said:


> You haven't missed a beat. I'm home with the kids, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife. I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.
> 
> On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.
> 
> If I only have access to her FB on her Iphone, how do I capture a copy of those exchanges, if they continue?



Please don't give this armhole a heads-up.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Dude, call the OM's wife without telling the OM first. She might be going through the same thing you're going through and feels crazy about it.

My SIL has been having an affair for two years. We've told my BIL over and over to call the OM's wife, he wouldn't do it. Just two weeks ago, the OM's wife called my BIL and guess what? She's also been dealing with it for two years but the OM just made her feel like she was crazy. BIL and the OM's wife have been comparing notes and everything is falling into place. At one point in the last two years, she even called my SIL directly and told her to stop texting her husband but my SIL didn't stop. If my BIL and the OM's wife would've called each other sooner, it's possible they could've nip the whole affair in the bud.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

*You haven't missed a beat. I'm home with the kids, I'm gathering intel on his wife / to, at this point, hold it in my pocket. I may need to call him and let him know that I know how to get in touch with his wife, and I'm prepared to call her if he persists in trying to contact my wife. I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.

On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before; I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation; and resolve to keep my integrity intact. I question whether wrecking his family is the best move. I'd like to take the moral highground and not resort to that.

If I only have access to her FB on her Iphone, how do I capture a copy of those exchanges, if they continue? *

1. One of your biggest problems is that you are focusing on the OM. Your wife is the problem here. 
2. You pushed your wife out the door, gave her your wedding ring, bought her a ticket. I will tell you that over the years I have seen similar situations like this. Seriously folks, I have seen about 1/2 dozen men do similar things. All but one ended in D. What you told your wife is: Giving her your ring = marriage is over. I would wager that in her mind, if this marriage is over and she is looking for stability in her life, the OM is her knight in shining armor (she will get burnt, but I suspect this is her thinking). Buying her a ticket = go explore your new lover, free pass. 
3. The fact that your wife left on this trip says it all.
4. You think you are gathering intell. Wrong again. Burner phone, new email, new accounts, etc. They will go dark.
5. Call the dude's wife and don't let anyone know about it. Blow this affair out of the water and expose it to her family.
6. *I believe he is persisting, which means that he is not with her.* Really. Who got on a plane? Who is 800 miles away? Who is closer to the OM then her family? Who packed a suitcase and boarded a plane? Who is the one traveling to be nearer the OM? WHO IS PERSISTING? I will tell you. YOUR WIFE IS THE ONE PERSISTING AND PURSUING THE OM AND HE HAS TO DO NOTHING BUT ENJOY THE FRUITS OF HER PURSUITS.
7. *On a positive note, before she left we had better conversations and learned more about one another than we have ever before* This is the most delusional thinking I have witnessed in a long time and I work in mental and behavioral health. This flabergasted me and I am not easily shocked.
8. *I see hope, but I need to keep him out of the equation;* Brother, you just sent her to the OM, you just exponentially increased his part in the equation and if your stated goal was to keep him out of the equation then your outcome is the polar opposite of your stated goal.
9. *resolve to keep my integrity intact.... I'd like to take the moral highground * :scratchhead: When I was in combat your logic would be, "Don't shoot the enemy, let them kill my soldiers and me, at least we took the moral highground and my integrity is intact". WTH. Your wife is walking all over you, cheating on you, is a rotten mother to her children and you are allowing this evil in your family. The moral highground and keeping your integrity intact is not lowering yourself to her cheating, and the moral highground is to pull out a can of whoop arse, and wipe this evil from the earth by exposing it.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Please keep in mind here that we are trying to help you anyway we can.
we do not mean to come off bashing you.
much better members here then me.
they/we have seen it all before.
most have true and HARD experience and we trying to help.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

RS71 said:


> *She will not accept calls except for once a night at a specific time *so she can speak with the kids and I.


Because her schedule is so full in a strange city where she know no one?? Because all other waking hours are filled with contemplating you and the kids?

You have painted a picture in your mind of how this thing would go and attempted to craft a strategy in your favor. The problem is she isn't playing the same game. 

Please listen to what has been offered up by others who have walked your path. 

~ Passio


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Around here, moral high ground equals a lack of testicular fortitude.

Did she take her sexy underwear with her? 

Are you watching her credit card purchases?

Did you turn on her iphone's find my phone feature?

Very suspicious behavior for a husband.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> ...
> 
> Very suspicious behavior for a husband.


:iagree:

Indeed.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

tulsy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Indeed.


:iagree:
Spidey sense on this one.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Should have paid for one-way tix.....


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

I think there is more going on here then we are being told


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

RS71 said:


> Who is more naive, her or me?


You.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Op we are here to help you get back your marriage but we cant do that if take steps that under mined are advice.YOU MOST STOP PLAYING THE BETA HUSBAND and start taking the lead in this mess.Right now your wife has no respect for you why should she *you gave her a plane ticket/hall pass to the man she has feeling for * THIS IS A NO NO and the fact that she call's you and kids once a week is a farther indicator of how much shes has removed herself from you and the kids do you think she is looking at your ring and thinking of you????? probably not hell she might not even have her ring on or care at this point. *OP its time to take this situation seriously *


This is your marriage *fight for it *or *kill it *do not leave it on life support like it is now.


We have your back OP just let us help you.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

DarkHoly said:


> You.


Darkholy, man you are wordy today. Could you please use paragraphs, it is hard to follow what you are trying to say.:rofl:


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

OP,

Stop talking to the OM.

You've already been told you ****ed up royally so I'll try to restrain myself from repeating how badly you ****ed up.

You won't find any activity on her phone, e-mail or Facebook while she's gone.
Not only because she knows you're monitoring but because she doesn't need to use these modes of communication.

All she has to do is roll over in bed and talk to him now.

You need....NEED to contact his wife right now this moment if you can and tell her everything.

Christ, you can't even call her now.

Edit: she's been gone for weeks?

I don't think you can save this now


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## RS71 (Mar 20, 2014)

xakulax said:


> Op we are here to help you get back your marriage but we cant do that if take steps that under mined are advice.YOU MOST STOP PLAYING THE BETA HUSBAND and start taking the lead in this mess.Right now your wife has no respect for you why should she *you gave her a plane ticket/hall pass to the man she has feeling for * THIS IS A NO NO and the fact that she call's you and kids once a week is a farther indicator of how much shes has removed herself from you and the kids do you think she is looking at your ring and thinking of you????? probably not hell she might not even have her ring on or care at this point. *OP its time to take this situation seriously *
> 
> 
> This is your marriage *fight for it *or *kill it *do not leave it on life support like it is now.
> ...


I'm taking it in, I'm filtering it. 

I'm a little lost on the relevance of where she is. 800 miles from him not enough? If I had simply put her on the street here, she would have had friends and other resources to give her shelter, safety and to lie for her. They can meet anywhere, except in my house, and her staying in here wasn't going to have the effect it might have.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

71

FOcus on your wife.

Inform the OMW so she can focus on her husband.

It will lighten your load.

And when you contact the OMW do not let your wife know. Do it while she is away.

You might learn that the OM had a family emergency in Toronto....

When both BS's are enlightened positive results will occur.

Affairs die in the light!.

HM


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

RS71 said:


> I'm taking it in, I'm filtering it.
> 
> I'm a little lost on the relevance of where she is. 800 miles from him not enough? If I had simply put her on the street here, she would have had friends and other resources to give her shelter, safety and to lie for her. They can meet anywhere, except in my house, and her staying in here wasn't going to have the effect it might have.


Again I am lost. Where exactly is she ? In relation to where you are ? In relation to where POSOM is ?

She is 800 miles from him ?
She is also 800 miles from you ?
She is in Montreal ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She planned to go to Montreal 5 min after talking to him. Are you that gullible?

Do you know what they talked on the phone?

She gets a vacation for having an affair?


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

RS71 said:


> I'm taking it in, I'm filtering it.
> 
> I*'m a little lost on the relevance of where she is*. *800 miles from him not enough?* If I had simply put her on the street here, she would have had friends and other resources to give her shelter, safety and to lie for her. They can meet anywhere, except in my house, and her staying in here wasn't going to have the effect it might have.




In a emotional affair heading towards a physical affair yeah 800 miles mean nothing to a man who wants to Bang your wife. lol are you for real man your wife been in an emotional affair for how knows how long and now she on her own in Montreal with no supervision DO YOU REALLY THINK SHE IS NOT WITH THE OM RIGHT NOW!! OR AT LEST PLANING TO...OP I hate to tell you this but your attitude and your action will kill your marriage.. 


The OM is laughing you have given him opportunity to your wife and he has time to farther pull her in to the fog away from you do you think when or if she come back she will see you as anything more then just a bank account!!!! come on is this troll thread 


PS How many guys here would fly,drive, or train to meet up with girl for some action i'm willing to bet most if not all.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> She planned to go to Montreal 5 min after talking to him. Are you that gullible?
> 
> Do you know what they talked on the phone?
> 
> She gets a vacation for having an affair?


Read this again. She is where he told her to go to meet him, and you sent her there. Get in contact with his wife and I'm sure you'll find out that he had to go to Montreal unexpectedly at the same time you sent your wife there.

I don't understand how you can be missing the significance of her talking to him just before she tells you she wants to go to a city where she has no ties. :scratchhead:


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

what do you think she is doing with her time away?
i'm sorry but that nonsense about you only calling her at a certain time once a day is totally suspicious. who does that?

i think everything else has been pretty well covered by everyone else.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

I am going to beat the Dead Horse too. How many times have we heard of the Good Bye (F***). A lot of times it is the opening and/or continuance of a PA that will not end until the BS addresses the issue.

Your wife can travel 800 miles what is stopping him from traveling 800 miles, his wife? His wife does not even know about the Affair because you have not called her.

Prepare yourself for a lot of pain and even if you "R" you will continually be aware of "If I only stopped her from going to Montreal"

You have been told numerous times, ignore the warnings and you have no one to blame but yourself for not doing something.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Contact OM's wife asap and your wife's parents.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

A lot of the time an ultimate Beta looks very mental in his rationalizing and handling of a case. 

OP, take care you step back from this delusional road you are on. You gambled and lost, she went to see how she will feel about a bit of freedom. Now the next gamble you made is whether she will see OM or not.

The damage which may be happening right now is done by your actions alone...

Swallow these two mistakes and refuse yourself to make such errors anymore.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Actually call other mans wife because she will know if he is home or "away".


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

You need to get to the truth by hook or by crook. Call the OM wife. I'm surprised nobody has suggested that yet. She needs to know what is going on, and can tell you if he is out of town.

Look, this is all SCARY SH!T. I get that. We all do. It's the most uncomfortable situation a man can find himself in. The person you promised to love unconditionally has betrayed you. You are in limbo. The quickest way out of limbo and to the truth is through the OM wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I a totally confused now, where is your wife Montreal? Where is her boyfriend in relation to that? Where are her parents living?

You said she was 800 miles from you in a hotel and now she is also 800 miles from the Posom?

Does her Posom travel for a living, you said he would not be able to get there before the middle of the week?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

RS71 said:


> *I'm taking it in, I'm filtering it. *
> 
> I'm a little lost on the relevance of where she is. 800 miles from him not enough? If I had simply put her on the street here, she would have had friends and other resources to give her shelter, safety and to lie for her. They can meet anywhere, except in my house, and her staying in here wasn't going to have the effect it might have.


"Filtering"...


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

Maybe I missed it reading, but how long did you send her away for? Like a week, or more? Was there any discussion beforehand of what she might do all day everyday while there? Since you had said to her that she needs to figure things out with him, I think she may have taken that as "ok, I get to go do whatever with this guy to figure things out." Sadly, I think she is doing just that... the question is, how do you feel about that? In some of your posts I get the sense that you are done with this marriage anyhow, but I'm not entirely sure. Is that true? If so, I can see where maybe you are numb or indifferent to what your wife may be doing, but if not then I think other measures need to happen because your wife is most likely with this other man. How have the phone conversations in the evening gone? What does she say she is doing with her time?


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## RS71 (Mar 20, 2014)

Thanks for the many forms of construtive advice. 

Updates - I'm having a hard time finding the OMW, but might know more today. I also have the ability to confirm on a daily basis as to whether he as left his city. On top of that I'm developing a contact that goes straight into his workplace.

He is still attempting to contact my wife via FB... I have her phone. This could be a clever diversion, but it serves no purpose, and I don't believe he has knows how to contact her directly. 

Lets just suppose I've made the many mistakes that many of you have kindly pointed out, but for the slim chance my spouse is not as evil as some of you think she is, can I get some constructive help on what to do when she returns in two more days. Let me be naive, but play along with me in that she and I haven't sunk quite as low as some of the other relationships you have witnessed. Can I get some constructive suggestions please. Meanwhile I am working on contacting the OMW, but that might not happen for a few days.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

RS71 said:


> Thanks for the many forms of construtive advice.
> 
> Updates - I'm having a hard time finding the OMW, but might know more today. I also have the ability to confirm on a daily basis as to whether he as left his city. On top of that I'm developing a contact that goes straight into his workplace.
> 
> ...


From what you have posted, it seems like it would be fairly easy for the posom to visit your wife. Then you contradict that by saying he is 800 miles away.

You kept her phone and she doesn't have one? How do you know she hasn't contacted him with a land line?

The reason people are freaking out is that you are not taking an emotional affair seriously enough. If you check out the other threads here, an emotional affair is more often than not the death knell of a marriage. Women often leave husbands and children to go live with men they have never met. Its worse than a purely physical affair.

Since your first posts you haven't taken part in your own thread.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

The inside link and wife are the key.

No idea how evil your wife is... Please next major move. Run it by the gaggle. Get her home. Get this thing under control... Unless you have already decided to divorce at which point who cares if she is screwing a midget and a hockey team or a hockey team of midgets.

You started off major awesome then read you sent her away and we all went #facepalm.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

You've been given quite a bit of constructive advice already, and as counter intuitive as it may sound, most of said advice assumes that you want this relationship to work out, and that your WS is not evil (just compartmentalizing heavily, as any addict would, and is under the false impression that she can find a better life outside of your marriage)

As far as what to do when she returns... its the standard advice, she has to commit to NC with the OM in writing. Has to be 100% transparent with you at all times and in all matters. You will need an independent way to verify that she is maintaining NC with the OM. Keyloggers and voice activated recorders will be a must for you. 

In the unlikely event that she agrees to the above, she will need to attend individual counseling (as will you) and once she has a few good sessions under her belt, you can decide if you want to go to couples counseling. Although I honestly don't see another approach working out here.

I know you want people to look at your situation as being unique, but so does everyone else that first posts on TAM. The details change, names, dates, lengths of time etc.. but the results hardly ever do. There are always exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions, and are rare. In almost every case where a WS is in a EA/PA or even when there's strife like you describe, the only thing that temporarily separating achieves is distance/privacy and secrecy, all fuel for any potential affair, and in most cases, if the affair was not yet physical, it becomes so during the "I need a week(month whatever) to figure things out" separation.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

Paladin said:


> I know you want people to look at your situation as being unique, but so does everyone else that first posts on TAM. The details change, names, dates, lengths of time etc.. but the results hardly ever do. There are always exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions, and are rare.


ain't it the truth.
sad, but spot on.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Most of the posters here have made mistakes, That is why they are so good they learned the hard way.

first get your wife back home as soon as possible anyway that you can even if you have to fly there to get her.

My WW loved it that i fought for her, if you want to keep her fight for her.

If no one has mention this yet call the OMW (like yesterday).


One of the reasons I think my ww go a kick out of me fighting (metaphorically) for her is saw the alpha side of me like i used to be.


P.S. call the OMW as soon as you can


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

RS71 said:


> Lets just suppose I've made the many mistakes that many of you have kindly pointed out


Okay RS,

You made a mistake. That horse has been beat to death and I for one won't pile on. What do you do when/if she returns and wants to R?

You don't make any more mistakes. That's all you can do. You should feel fortunate that you found TAM now so that you can avoid them. 

You've been given very good advice. 

Hold her accountable. She must receive and accept the consequences for her choice - including exposure. She must demonstrate remorse. She must be transparent. 

Don't accept anything less and make sure she understands that you won't.

Then *YOU* decide whether to "attempt" R, after you see how she reacts.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

I agree with everything every poster has said on this page OP follow their advice *now*


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

RS71 said:


> Thanks for the many forms of construtive advice.
> 
> Updates - I'm having a hard time finding the OMW, but might know more today. I also have the ability to confirm on a daily basis as to whether he as left his city. On top of that I'm developing a contact that goes straight into his workplace.
> 
> ...


Every one is a special case. Unfortunately, not!

Every strategy you need to save your marriage starts with the premise that, to save your marriage, you need to be prepared to lose it. You are very far from that.

Your chances are poor.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

She does not necessarily need to be evil to be in 'the fog'.

She may have a second love spot in her head for the OM. She may figure all kinds of rosy scenario's about the three of you. You being on the side as a safeguard and long time friend.

It happens sometimes to even the best wives...

You need to break the fog with the already ample given advise. Not think, just do. Accept your view on this is flawed. Listen to the expert posters here.

You can chance your situation in an instant by changing your mind!


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

If you haven't read this yet, please do. Being new here, it has links to valuable information that you need to understand if you want to kill this affair.

OP, you sound like a good, ethical man. I'm sorry for your situation. Unfortunately, I think you're also naive. Your wife knows full well what she is doing. She is not a hapless victim of an EA/likely full on PA. She is an active participant in this affair. People that aren't open to cheating cannot have their boundaries invaded. Your wife is cheating because she can and cheating because she wants to. 

Being 800 miles away shouldn't make a difference. If they wanted to consummate their affair in Toronto which you stated was 1000 miles away from either of you, going to Montreal is not that big of a stretch. Also, going to a place where they both no nobody is the safest place to have a meeting. They can be out in the open, in a restaurant, a pub, checking into hotels, groping each other in public and not have to worry about being seen by an acquaintance.

Her being gone in the middle of the week should also not make a difference. All he has to say is that he or one of the kids is sick with the flu then BAM - he gets time off. Someone willing to lie to their spouse, would have no problem lying to their workplace. 

Going to a "neutral" place was most likely meant to throw YOU off of the trail. They can't go to Toronto because you know about Toronto. Why NOT go to Montreal? It's only a few more hours away. I live close to Toronto and Montreal is only a five to six hours drive away. 

If you haven't done so already, you can create a new email address, and a new Facebook account - NOT IN YOUR NAME. If he's still on Facebook, you will then be able to see his profile unless he's made it viewable to friends only. His wife (look for the same last name) will probably be his friend. 

Similarly, if you do call his office to see if he's working, you should do so from a separate phone number - don't call from your own cell/land-line or a work number that he may recognize. He may have told his secretary about you but that you're crazy and to lie for him.

Your wife quite possibly has a burner phone (a prepaid cell phone, that's kept secret from the spouse to talk to their affair partner), if she gave you her phone.


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