# Question for AA, NA, Al-Anon members...



## oregonmom

I am new to Al-Anon (3 months) so obviously I don't have everything down yet  I need some opinions on if I am over reacting or if this is perfectly normal.

My H has been going to AA/NA on and off for five years. I discovered his affair four months ago; since he has been going to our small town's meetings about twice a week. They seem to be a closely knit group. He seems much happier with this group than any other meetings he has attended. This is good.

He took me on a date a few Saturdays ago instead of going to his meeting. He received a text around the end of the meeting, I asked who it was and he said someone at the meeting wondering where he was. He did not reply.

Later that night, I looked at his phone (I know, this is not very Al-Anon of me, but I feel like I need to do some verification that he is not cheating still...it is a tough line to walk). Message in question said "missed you tonight!! xoxo Jenny". Same number called a half hour later, he didn't answer. He later sent a message when I was out of the room "missed you see you tomorrow ". The next day he deleted all of his texts even tho his box wasn't full. I have not seen any more texts from that number on his phone. 

I know it is important to keep in touch with the other members of the program. I know they probably wondered why he wasn't there. I know I am insecure about things after the affair. I am fine with the "missed you tonight!" part. I am uncomfortable about the "xoxo" part and that they were erased so soon.

I have not brought this up with my H yet because I am not sure if I am being unreasonable and this is perfectly normal. I don't want to make a big deal over nothing. Thanks!!


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## lamaga

You're not making a big deal over nothing. 

Honesty is a big part of AA. Call him on it.


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## Hope1964

I have never attended any groups for co dependents, but there is *NO WAY* that would be acceptable in my relationship. Not only the text he got, but the fact he's deleting text messages.

He's obviously not into being truly remorseful.

Draw a line in the sand and tell him he's crossed it, and if he continues to do so he's outta there. ZERO tolerance.


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## oregonmom

Wow, thanks ladies. I think I'm crazy a lot of times but apparently not on this one.

We are all full of "love" at meetings...hugs and I love yous but these are amongst the ladies. I don't see myself doing that with a man. But I'm new, not as comfortable as others, and thought this may be typical as we grow in the program. And really, I appreciate that people in his group wanted to know where he was and are looking out for his best interests. The xoxo is too much tho.

I guess I should go check the phone records so I know if there are other texts or calls I don't know about then call him on it. Fudge, I hate this...


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## Hope1964

He cheated, he should have FAR stricter boundaries than that. He shouldn't be texting with another woman without your complete and thorough approval of every text he sends, and if he gets an XOXO from another woman he'd better run to you ASAP and tell you.

The fact he didn't speaks volumes. I really don't see that AA or ALANON or any other 12 step group has anything to do with that.

Have you and he read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass?


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## Cherry

Hope1964 said:


> He cheated, he should have FAR stricter boundaries than that. He shouldn't be texting with another woman without your complete and thorough approval of every text he sends, and if he gets an XOXO from another woman he'd better run to you ASAP and tell you.
> 
> The fact he didn't speaks volumes. I really don't see that AA or ALANON or any other 12 step group has anything to do with that.
> 
> Have you and he read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass?


Agree. He has a history of cheating, drunk or not, NA or AA. He needs to be an open book. 

My H cheated on me horribly when he relapsed onto crack, he also wiped out our bank account on my payday. It took me years to trust him with money, and I still struggle trusting him when it comes to cheating because his cheating continued years after he was sober... 

One thing you might want to consider.. go to one of his meetings with him, meet his sober buddies... Just to see what its like. I went to over a years worth of meetings with my H. Nope, didn't trust him.. and yes there are hook ups originating in AA/NA groups ... That's where my H met his girlfriend before me. lol.. but he met me in a bar


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## oregonmom

I have not gotten that book yet but am planning on it since iheartlife also suggested it to me. To be honest, the title kind of rubbed me the wrong way as I am one of those people that do have "just friends". I have never had any kind of issues with these friends...I have not felt anything more for them or them for me. But I have always had strict boundaries. I don't discuss my marriage with male friends, I do not discuss their relationships, we don't do anything flirty and our conversations revolve around sports and other surface type subjects. I am seeing now THAT is what the book is about, you can be just friends if you follow strict boundaries. My H doesn't seem to have those.

I checked the phone records and nothing too strange. Five texts the Saturday before our date, initiated by her; two texts the next day, her first again; the texts that I saw, she sent at 8:00, he replied at 10:55 and he called her for two minutes the next day. Nothing since. The weekend before our date we were living apart, so I can't say when he deleted those. I will check his phone when he gets home and see if he deleted his call to her the day after our date - that would be a huge :redcard:

I've been too easy on him, I can see that. We discussed him toning down his "gregarious" (as he calls it) personality. I guess I have been afraid that if I say he can't have women friends he will say I can't have male friends, that it is unfair. I know, I'm not the one who had an A, but I don't think he would accept that reasoning. I'm guessing the book will give me some good insight into that


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## oregonmom

Thanks Cherry...yikes, sounds like you went through the ringer with your H, but looks like you are doing better now  I have a hard time seeing myself ever fully trusting my H again too.



Cherry said:


> One thing you might want to consider.. go to one of his meetings with him, meet his sober buddies... Just to see what its like. I went to over a years worth of meetings with my H. Nope, didn't trust him.. and yes there are hook ups originating in AA/NA groups ... That's where my H met his girlfriend before me. lol.. but he met me in a bar


I went to one of their monthly parties, all seemed like nice people. I can't remember if I met "Jenny", I met over 40 people. It is suggested we go to AA meetings is Al-Anon but I didn't want to butt in on his turf...I think it may be time


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## Cherry

I honestly don't know how others might take this, but I felt the same way when my H requested I cease a male friendship because I wasn't the one who cheated. This happened while we were in counseling, his requesting I stop unnecessary communication with this friend. I decided to respect his request.. my marriage was more important to me than my friendship with this particular male. I love my friend dearly, however, there was just not room in my marriage when it was already struggling with infidelity issues.


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## oregonmom

Talked with H, I think it went pretty well but I guess time will tell.

I was very calm, and I told him that I was triggered by seeing that text, and while I understand it probably was completely innocent it bothered me. He said he knew when he got it that if I saw it it would make me upset, so he wanted to keep it to himself so I wouldn't be. I told him this is the exact thing he shouldn't do - the way to rebuild trust with me is to come to me immediately if something happens that he thinks I would be uncomfortable with. If I find out on my own, it makes me think he is trying to hide something. This seemed to make sense to him and said he will do that in the future. I told him I know he can't control other people stepping over those boundaries, and in this particular case I would have liked him to handle it by first telling me and then telling her at the next meeting something to the effect of I was in an affair, I need to do everything I can to rebuild trust with my wife, and anything that can be taken as flirty with another woman is not ok for me. He said earlier when he shared at the meeting he mentioned how I look at his texts and would probably be upset if I saw texts from a woman on there, and he thinks he got the point across. I also said I am walking a fine line - watching him like a hawk is unhealthy for me but I would be stupid not to check up on things. I don't want to play detective, and if he can be upfront about things, I will feel like I need to less.

So there were good and bad things. I do think he will be more upfront about things in the future. I think he is still in a pity party tho...poor him, no privacy, have to walk on eggshells and that does bother me. He still has a lot of "stinking thinking". I would prefer a more direct approach with the woman who sent this text, but not sure it matters...I mean, if it gets the job done, I don't think I should obsess over if it was done MY way or not. 

Thank you all so much for your replies, I am feeling much better about all of this now


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## NCC-1701

Hi,

I'm new here. I searched for "aa na forum wife cheaters" and this thread popped up. It wasn't exactly what I searched for but after reading all this I had to respond.

I've been a member of AA for more than 30 years. Early on when I was unattached, it was awesome. If you couldn't get laid in AA there really was something wrong with you. Just a regular old Payton Place. And that worked. Instead of meeting people in bars you'd meet them at meetings. Two otherwise unattached people, what's wrong with that"?

Unfortunately, it's far too easy to turn something mutually beneficial into something predatory. It's called 13th step work. Usually older guys (and by that I mean mostly in terms of program time not age although that is ofter the case) hitting on newly sober or clean women ('cause it works the same way in NA). Some groups are more vigilante than others but it still happens. By vigilante I mean the older heads usually recognize the behavior and do their best to put an end to it. I can guarantee you that every newcomer hears the warning, men with men and women with women. Far too few heed it.

What the original poster described sounded more like flirting, okay, serious flirting. That might have happened anywhere, AA, NA, at the office, or the PTA, etc. In any case, tolerating it would seem to be the biggest mistake. It would only embolden both of them. There were several good suggestions here that I agree with whole heartedly. Continue on with Al-Anon, go to his meetings at random times, and take a glance at his phone every once in awhile.

Politics aside, I'm reminded of a famous quote of President Regan's when speaking of the Russians, 'Trust, but verify.'

Best of luck to you.
Kevin


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## Awakening2012

Hi There - I live in a large urban area where there are numerous meetings every day, including women's only and men's only. I know you do not want to be controlling, but if he is serious about rebuilding trust and if attending men's meeting is an option for him, that might be worth suggesting? Good luck -- great that you are both working programs of recovery! 

Cheers,- A12


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## OhGeesh

IDK, I would file for divorce just as much for the AA/NA piece as the Affair and subsequent flirting. I've been around AA/NA for years due to a family member and all I can say is I still cannot relate at all.

I'll never get it!! Just like AA/NA teaches it's hard for family to "understand addiction" and they are 100% right I can't for the life of me understand it. You have 3-4 drinks and stop.....but for whatever reason they can't.

Add to that the cheating and flirting!! No doubt divorce!


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## Awakening2012

OhGeesh said:


> IDK, I would file for divorce just as much for the AA/NA piece as the Affair and subsequent flirting. I've been around AA/NA for years due to a family member and all I can say is I still cannot relate at all.
> 
> I'll never get it!! Just like AA/NA teaches it's hard for family to "understand addiction" and they are 100% right I can't for the life of me understand it. You have 3-4 drinks and stop.....but for whatever reason they can't.
> 
> Add to that the cheating and flirting!! No doubt divorce!


OGeesh- Wow,you are just a real bag of cheer here!. With due respect,, I'm sorry your experiences were negative, but I hope you blanket condemnation of all whose recovered and done well does not discourage those who have found success and healing from trying. We are not pariahs and no one is a flaw,less human being without baggage, so a little less harsh judgement is in order, ,
Thanks, A12


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## OhGeesh

Awakening2012 said:


> OGeesh- Wow,you are just a real bag of cheer here!. With due respect,, I'm sorry your experiences were negative, but I hope you blanket condemnation of all whose recovered and done well does not discourage those who have found success and healing from trying. We are not pariahs and no one is a flaw,less human being without baggage, so a little less harsh judgement is in order, ,
> Thanks, A12


We are all different  just my opinion I can be as harsh and judgemental as I want. 

The minute someone says they are in AA, NA, or some other addictive behavior their stock goes down 10 fold in my book. Add to that just swapping one rush for another which is so popular in the AA/NA world is more proof of a severe weakness on so many levels.

I've seen great recoveries too! It doens't change my opininon that if my spouse was a addict, cheater, and flirter that I would file for divorce in a nano second though!!


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## oregonmom

I haven't been active here in quite a while and my original post was from a long time ago, but I felt like I should reply since there has been so much action 

My H cooled it on these texts, it took one more little incident a few weeks later, but it never took just one time of me saying something back then for him to get it (in other words, he is very stubborn or steadfast as someone pointed out). 

We are still married, he is still clean and I have my one year birthday in Al-Anon at the end of the month. I can't say things are perfect by any means, but it does take time. I am very happy with myself and my changes, and that is what is most important to me. As I get better he gets better - I'm partially to blame, he was used to me being a doormat and as he realizes I am not anymore, he has stopped being me me me all the time. 

Guess that brings me to the disagreement on the posts here. I believe in the program. Mine is working for me, and if he does the work and wants it, it will work for him too. I know lots of people oppose it, normally because of God, and that is their right to do so. I don't understand the need to bad mouth something that has worked for thousands of people. I'd rather my loved ones, or just people in general, not be junkies no matter how they get to it, but that's just my personal opinion.

Addiction gets compared to other diseases a lot, since my FIL had a stroke a few months ago, I like to compare it to that. If you put in the work, you can regain your strength and get back to what you were. If you don't, it will control and effect the rest of your life. I would not leave my H just because he had a stroke and was wheelchair bound. If he wanted to sit on his pity pot and choose not to do the work to get better, that's a different story. No one should be held hostage to someone else's self destruction whatever that self destruction is. It is also not my job to tell him the best way to get better, the end result is what matters. 

Thanks everyone for chiming in


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## Awakening2012

Glad things are going well for you, OregonMom! Congrats, and thanks for sharing 

Warmly, A12


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## Freak On a Leash

I'm really glad things worked out for you. I personally don't think I could've perservered in the face of both drinking and cheating so I give you credit for sticking with him and making your marriage work. :smthumbup:

My STBXH is an alcoholic. He never cheated but he is a habitual liar. I couldn't take his antics and abuse anymore and filed for divorce. The divorce is on April 1 and I have no regrets about doing it. 

He's in AA now and seems to really like it and he goes to meetings about 2X/day. I'm hoping he'll remain sober for our son's sake. Nothing else seems to have worked. He's done this cycle of stopping, then starting, then stopping drinking and I'm hoping AA will keep him on the wagon because nothing else seems to work. 

Best of luck to you and your husband and thanks for updating your thread. It's nice to see that things can get better for some.


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