# Filed throught Mediator vs Lawyer--Regretting it now



## lady323 (Nov 12, 2010)

I apologize in advance for the rambling but hopefully it makes sense:
As some of you know, I was originally working with a lawyer for my divorce but husband convinced me to go with a mediator and at the time I thought it was a good idea....however in the agreement that the mediator filed with the court we agreed that " *I shall timely transfer title to the 2004 Mazda to the STBX* (this is the car he’s been driving around since Feb when I bought a new car and we traded in his Audi for this, even though I told him I wanted to trade the Mazda but the trade in value was better with the Audi). *"Thereafter, I shall purchase a new vehicle via trade of the Husband’s 2004 Mazda. The new vehicle may have a sale price up to a maximum of $70,000.00. Thereafter, the Husband shall retain all of his right, title and interest in and to the automobile presently being used by him, (the 2004 Mazda 3), free and clear of any and all claims of the Wife. Both vehicles shall continue to be insured as they now are"* (which is by me). 
As background, we are in Massachusetts, married 6 years and STBX hasn’t worked in 5 of those years and is still unemployed and has never collected Social Security/Unemployment. As indicated in previous posts he has had no financial responsibility in the marriage other than putting 150K from his overseas account into the addition/renovating the house in which I took out a 2nd mortgage to pay $130K of that back to him and before I paid him back I put his name on the deed (kicking myself two-fold over this). 
Anyways in our talks he said he didn’t want any fancy car but now he’s looking at, as he told me, his “dream car” which is a Mercedes Benz SUV. I do not have the funds available for this SUV. I have applied for an equity loan of 65K but I owe more than what the house was worth and was denied the loan. STBX is pushing for me to take out the pre-59 ½ 401K money which I don’t want to do as the penalties are too much and I could only get approximately $38K from this. If I borrow from the 401K, then I will end up juggling my credit cards and normal household bills as this will be coming out of my bi-weekly paycheck.
My question is now that the paperwork has been filed but we haven’t received a court date can anything be done to adjust this, i.e. going back to the mediator? Or, wait until we have a court date and talk to the judge?
I just feel that I am the one getting screwed, even though the agreement indicates he’s not getting any alimony but will get 50% of the equity in the house but if I sell the house I am screwed that way too as I owe more than what it’s valued at so I would have to not only pay him but pay the bills and try to find another place to live.
I am so stressed, not sleeping, and when the STBX calls me to find out the status of the “money for his car” I ignore the calls….
Is there anything I can do as I don’t have the funds for another lawyer….


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I would make an appointment for a free consultation with a lawyer. In your free 10 minutes you might get some good info to help you out.

Have the financials changed since the agreement was negotiated? That is, has the value of the house dropped, or are there other big changes? Or did the mediator not put together a fair deal for you?

If you read the mediation agreement paperwork at either the beginning or end there should be some general statements. Is there anything that says this is binding forever once signed?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Did you sign the agreement? 

How much equity do you have in that $70K car? Get some cash out of it and get an attorney.


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## lady323 (Nov 12, 2010)

In the initial draft of the agreement I had put the house value at the last appraisial and I owed more than what it was appraised at. The husband changed the value so that it looked like it was worth more than I owed as he said that wouldn't look good and the judge would probably have me pay him alimony so with that being said I agreed to what he changed. 

As far as the car, it will be his free and clear unless I get a loan then it will be in my name and my monthly payments on it....

I just wished I was smarter and I just feel so defeated...


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

My understanding is that once signed and notarized, the mediated agreement is just as binding as any other property agreement. You are free to attempt to re-negotiate the agreement with H, but if he will not budge you have a real problem on your hands. Definitely get to an attorney to see if there is any other way to get out of this.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Can you go back to the mediator? His/her job is to get you both to an agreement, but it should be a good agreement not a dishonest one. I would call the mediator and tell him/her that you have found some incorrect financial information in the document and you want to change it before court. See what they say.

Don't pay any attention to your husband. This is a business deal. Think of him as the tv show version of a cheap, dishonest used car salesman. He is not looking out for anyone but himself, so he is going to lie to you and manipulate you.

If the legalities and finances are beyond your expertise, you need a lawyer even if it costs you money. A decent lawyer is probably in the $300/hr range. No, not cheap. But you can probably work on a cash basis rather than put down a large chunk for a retainer. Go for the free consultation and ask if you can hire them on a cash basis.

I think you can get a couple of basic questions answered in the free consult.

1) Is this agreement binding and final, or is there a way to get it changed before having to go to court?

2) Can you tell the judge you no longer agree to the mediated document even if you signed it?

3) What would it cost to have the lawyer review the next version of the mediated document before going to court?

4) What else should you know before going any further in the process?

5) Will this lawyer work on a cash basis?

6) How can you get the best value for your very limited $ for legal fees?

A lawyer doesn't have to be involved in every little conversation or negotiation. You can use the lawyer as simply a consultant to review documents before you sign them, and to give you advice/opinions on what it means and how it affects you.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

The whole $70,000 car thing seems odd to me. A financial agreement should be based on some kind of split, probably 50/50, of the net value of all the assets. Add up all the assets and subtract out all the loans. Split that number in half, that is what you each get.

If there is $70,000 in there for him, let him have cash and do what he wants with it. Don't make buying a car for him part of the deal. It is waaay too complicated.

Cars and their loans usually go together in a divorce agreement. That is, if he gets a car he also gets the loan which goes with it. He should not get a car while you get the loan. Imagine if he fails to keep insurance and wrecks it. Or you stop paying the loan and the car gets repossessed. There are all kinds of bad scenarios for both of you unless the loan and the car go to the same person.

Alimony is a different set of calculations. Alimony is based on the future, not on what you two have today. The courts will look at the laws and your situation, and come up with alimony. The value of the house today should not be any kind of factor in alimony.

If there is no alimony in the agreement you signed, the court would probably not impose alimony. At least in my state that is the situation. If the spouses have an agreement the court will approve it unless it violates the law. So if you two don't have any alimony in your agreement so far, the court wouldn't have a reason to impose it unless your agreement is in violation of the law.

Did your stbxh pick the mediator?


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## lady323 (Nov 12, 2010)

As an update, I just got an email from the STBX responding to my email in which I told him I was denied the Equity load due to the home being valued at less than what I owed and that I didn't want to take out what I could from my pre 59 1/2 from my 401K due to the penalties, etc. so he replies "Give me as much as you got - minimum of 40K and the rest he will put off until 2014". 

Unfortunately, as I said in my email to him, I do not have the 70K that he wants for his Mercedes SUV. I want to tell him I am willing to go back to our Mediator to let him know my situation and see what he says as we do not have a court date yet. But don't know if that would be possible

With not having any financial support from the STBX in the past 10 years I do not want jeapoadize what I do have and go into bankruptcy over this. I can possibly pay him $200/month as a starting point but I really don't want to do this

I am so frustrated and just don't know how to reply to him.

Any suggestions?


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Run the payment calculator and determine what your likely alimony payment would be in comparison to 70k. Also determine how long you will be paying it based on the length of the marriage. If the 70k is significantly less than the potential alimony layout, don't make an issue out of it. If you try to back out of a signed mediated agreement you are going to get destroyed in court. And the lawyer bills will kill you, too.

Bottom line- it might be best to bite the bullet on the 70k.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Don't reply to him. 
Call the mediator and see about a modification. If the mediator isn't helpful, get an attorney to file a motion seeking relief from the mediation agreement. If you don't take action and try to negotiate with your H, he will continue to have every right to enforce the agreement.


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## lady323 (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks for the responses
Wilderness--we are in Massachusett and married 6 years. How would I calculate what the aliminoy would be?
Pluto--If I reply to the Mediator I will need to copy the STBX on the email


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

lady323 said:


> Thanks for the responses
> Wilderness--we are in Massachusett and married 6 years. How would I calculate what the aliminoy would be?
> Pluto--If I reply to the Mediator I will need to copy the STBX on the email


New 2013 Massachusetts Alimony Calculator

I live in MA, too...and I can tell you that no matter what the calculator says alimony is rarely ordered in favor of a man, especially for a marriage of this duration.
Still, it might be prudent to bite the bullet on the 70k because you very well might be ordered to pay legal expenses for your husband even if you can get the mediated agreement tossed out (which is difficult in and of itself). You can run up 100k bill so fast it will make your head spin.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

According to a quick search, it appears you would be on the hook for alimony for 60% of the number of months you were married, so a bit under 4 years if you were married 6 years.

Does your stbxh have any skills or experience which would provide for a reasonable income he should be able to earn? Is there any reason he cannot work, such as fully disabled?

Normally, alimony should consider what you each should reasonably be able to earn. If one person simply is lazy and doesn't want to work, the court should not award them alimony based on zero income.

Call the mediator immediately and tell them you have changes to the finances which have an impact on the entire agreement. Tell them you want to redo the agreement. See if the mediator says it is possible or not.

It sounds like this mediator did not facilitate any reasonable settlement. The mediator is not a legal advisor but should be able to answer basic questions such as what the guidelines are for distribution of property and establishment of alimony. The mediator should also ensure you both understand the facts of your finances and that you both understand the final agreement. I think your mediator failed you.


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## lady323 (Nov 12, 2010)

So the saga continues. I emailed STBX to let him know I was going to let the mediator know about the updated house value vs what is owed and not wanting to take the pre 59 1/2 money out of 401K. His reply was "if I feel the banks refusal to give me the loan is the reason for me to request to change the sums on the agreement would cause more problems than you can image" "Why suddenly even getting that 401K becoming a drama" 

He also wrote that he feels I don't have any intention of every paying him for the value of what he put into the house (I posted on this forum previously that he put 150K of his overseas money into renovations, etc but I paid him back $130K) and he believes he would be *swindled* out of his money and won't ever get his equity back. "So before any divorce, he would be starting a civil case to recover his funds but will let me decide how I want to proceed....

Anyone know of a lawyer that will do pro bona case in Massachusetts?

I just feel like such a loser....


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

No offense... But if you have the kind of money swirling around that you're discussing, and buying a 70k car was even considered as part of the mediated agreement, I doubt you'll find a lawyer willing to work for free.

Why did you agree to all this? The problem wasn't mediated vs. a lawyer. The problem was you agreeing to things that you didn't want to agree to, and based on facts that were actually lies.

C


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

No offense... But if you have the kind of money swirling around that you're discussing, and buying a 70k car was even considered as part of the mediated agreement, I doubt you'll find a lawyer willing to work for free.

Why did you agree to all this? The problem wasn't mediated vs. a lawyer. The problem was you agreeing to things that you didn't want to agree to, and based on facts that were actually lies.

C


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## lady323 (Nov 12, 2010)

I definitely don't have that kind of money floating around and hence the stupidty on my part.......just screwed myself 10-fold...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Stop letting him bully you!!!!!

As I understand it, you owned a house and he put $150k into it also. Then, due to the economy, the total value of the house declined. You know what that means? You both jointly lost money on the "investment". You were married, and the house was a joint asset/investment.

Imagine you both together bought a bunch of stock in some company. Then the price of the stock plummeted. Same thing as your house situation, you both lose money on the deal. Sorry, it happens, and that is just life.

He doesn't get his money back and then stuff all the loss onto you! It sounds like you've already paid him back almost all of his investment anyhow. Complicated, but I think if you total up all of the assets you have together, and subtract all of the debts you two have, the final number is what you two split. Who gets what is the next question, but everything has a $ value attached to it, and in the end you get half the value and he gets half the value.

Call the mediator! What are you waiting for?


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