# Wanting a Divorce



## gbrad

I have been contemplating divorce for a long time. At this point I am getting closer to my breaking point. I want to be able to support myself financially before I approach the topic of divorce with my wife, but everyday is getting harder and harder. I have been unhappy for a significant amount of time, but right now everyday is a struggle. I think that the closest time frame for being able to even bring up the idea of divorce is a year away, but sometimes I wonder how I will make it that far. I know its a process and eventually I will have to broach the topic with my wife, but right now, I just wish I didn't have to live with her at all. We live such separate lives already, that being with her just makes things more stressful. I know that I need to find a way to make the time between now and when it actually happens more bearable, I just don't know how.


----------



## Couleur

With no details about the rest of your life -- kids? mortgage? how long together? it's hard to offer much advice.

But....
I truly believe that being honest is the best policy. If you know that you want a divorce, go ahead and tell your wife. You will need to spell out that the steps you are proposing to take (i.e., separating finances, arranging custudy for kids/ pets) are to facilitate your divorce). If you are not specific, she will likely take your conversation to mean "we are having trouble in our marriage and may one day divorce if you don't do something". If you have absolutely decided the relationship is over, do not string her along. Tell her you are divorcing her, and that the process will take a few months.

s


----------



## gbrad

We have no kids together, though we have been "trying" for the past few years, medically we found out it is not likely. We do own a home together and married 6 years now. 
I should have given more info in the first one, but I was just trying to get it off my chest at the time and say something. 
As much as I want a divorce, I do not feel as if I am financially ready for it yet. I will soon be transitioning from one profession to another and need to make sure that I get a position that will enable me to support myself financially. This has been part of the plan for a couple years now, but it is just getting harder and harder all of the time to stay in the relationship. 
Being responsible for everything and getting very little out of it in return just wears on you. And when I do eventually bring up the idea of divorce, I have no idea how I will do it. She is a great person, has a great family and I love them all very much. I have no desire to hurt her. But with as emotional as she is, I don't know how I will do it without causing her to completely lose it and make the situation worse. For now, I just try to make it through each day without any further issues.


----------



## ImStillHere

Why do you want to divorce her? Have you met someone else?


----------



## gbrad

ImStillHere said:


> Why do you want to divorce her? Have you met someone else?


No I have not met anyone else at this point. Life with her just, it is more work than it is worth. We do very little together. I do everything around the house. It is like I am taking care of and picking up after a kid when at home. We both work full time, but she puts her whole energy into her job. When we do spend time together, I don't really enjoy it anymore. I am not attracted to her, never really was. There is just so much involved and that just keeps building up, that it just doesn't seem worth it. I just keep thinking that life would be much nicer without being married to her. I don't say without her in it, because I do love and care about her. But I want to be with someone I enjoy and who I share a life with.


----------



## izzy123

Sounds you like you are getting something out of the marriage - financial stability. I realize that you want more, but the first key to making things better is to be thankful for everything that is working. Not everyone has a spouse that brings in livelihood!

You envisage one year before breaking it off. I suggest that you dedicate this time to actively romancing your wife. Stop yourself from complaining about anything, at least for one week. Instead, write your complaints in a diary or notebook. Make an effort to compliment her twice a day - on anything at all. Buy her small gifts that show that you are thinking of her. Take her out on dates. What does she like to do for pleasure? Can you get involved in that somehow?

Work hard at it for a full year. If it still ain't working after that, then you will know that you've tried everything.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Toffer

Have the two of you tried any couunciling?

Does she know you feel this way about her (not the divorce part)?


----------



## gbrad

I have tried at different times in the past to do all of the extra special things to make her feel good to make our relationship better. The problem is, I'm doing all of the work. I set up a plan for us to set aside time for date nights and time together, it lasted a month and then she didn't make it a priority any more. At this point I am just trying to live everyday for me and not let her effect what I do too much. I already do everything here at home, I don't have the time or the energy to keep trying to go the extra mile for her. 
I started going to the gym and working out. I want to get in a little better shape, feel good about myself, get healthier. She joined also, but hardly ever goes (waste of money there). I just keep thinking about what is pushing me to go; if/when this marriage ends, I want to look good to be able to move on. 
Last night in bed, after she finally got home, very late, we go to bed and I was so irritated that when she finally turned the light off, she rolled over to touch me and I cringed. I didn't want her to touch me, I wanted her to leave me alone and let me get some sleep.


----------



## This is me

Sounds like you have built up a ton of resentment that is like poison to a marriage. Not a healthy place to be making any decisions about a marriage.

I can tell you that my wife did this over a period of months, maybe years and then combined with the fog of a mid life crisis shocked me with the word Divorce. This sounds like you. 

It is called the Walk Away Wife syndrome or in your case WAH. 

You need a professional counselor. Likely IC and certainly MC.

The grass may look greener on the other side, but from what I am reading between the lines, is more resentment than facts or reasons to throw in the towel. 

You say you don't have the time or energy to go the extra mile? Do you think getting a divorce will be easier? Not likely.

I highly recommend trying professional help and realize we all contribute to the tone of our marriages and we can only change ourselves, which usually has an effect on those around us. Good or bad!


----------



## ImStillHere

I will be the third to recommend counseling. Divorce does not automatically equal better life. 

Your posts are filled with so much negativity about your wife and the resentment is oozing throughout your words. You need to get that in check before you make decisions regarding your marriage. 

You said that you do "everything" around the house and have done "all of the work", but what's going on with your wife? How does she feel about you? 

Why is she putting so much effort in her job and not at home? Has she fallen out of love with you? Has she met someone else? Or, is she just a hard-working woman who is busting her @ss everyday so that she can help to provide a financially stable environment for herself and her husband? Is she tired when she gets home? What have you done to help relax her and show her that you appreciate her? 

BTW, women tend to pick up on body language very easily. Your words say that you have been doing all you can, but I would bet that your body language is saying something different. If you are giving off negative vibes to her, then guess what? She's not going to be lovey dovey in return. 

So, in that respect, I agree with what Izzy suggested and start to be more positive around the house for the next year. Pay attention to your body language. I'm sure that you'll get a different response from her.


----------



## synthetic

Have you told your wife about your intentions and feelings?

It would be very wrong if you haven't.


----------



## gbrad

synthetic said:


> Have you told your wife about your intentions and feelings?
> 
> It would be very wrong if you haven't.


No I have not, because I don't want to hurt her. (I know, the idea of divorce will hurt at any point in time)

To the comments about counseling, negativity, and resentment- 
I started the process towards divorce seemingly just under 2 years ago. I knew for me to get a divorce I would have to be able to support myself financially. (We both work, but at the time, neither made enough to support themselves if single). I also wanted to work to get out of the career I had and find something new. I did that, I started a program and I am getting close to the end of it. Once I get a job in that new field I will be able to make enough (maybe not right away, but much faster than where I am now) to support myself. This has not been an emotional decision based on the negativity and resentment. Of course those things contribute to it. I have tried to talk to my wife over the years about what it is that would make me happy in the marriage. She knows the things I want/need from her. She just does not make those things a priority. 
I am not trying to say I am perfect, not by any means. It just seems, and has for a long time, that we live 2 separate lives. And she recognizes this as well. Or sex life, not that great, she wants it happen more often than it does. It doesn't because I am not attracted to her, so I don't want to that often with her. 
I'll stop there with that update. Everyday life is just so hard with her. Being in a relationship with someone, shouldn't take this much work.


----------



## ImStillHere

Why do you think relationships are easy? Do you honestly know of any couples who have had an "easy" relationship? 

I don't. But I DO know a few couples who are happily married AND have been for decades. DAILY WORK is the common denominator. No one is exempt from it. And, work isn't always easy and fun.

I read some of your previous posts. I don't necessarily believe the finance thing. It seems to me that you're using it as an excuse to stay, but then complain that married life (with this person) is not to your liking. You don't want her to touch you, you fantasize about other women when having sex, you say she puts too much energy in her work, she doesn't do anything around the house, etc...

If life with your wife was so bad (as you have said for these 2+ years), why not just leave? Money shouldn't really make a difference because then you would be free of her. And, you would be happy. That's what you want, right?


----------



## gbrad

ImStillHere said:


> Why do you think relationships are easy? Do you honestly know of any couples who have had an "easy" relationship?
> 
> I don't. But I DO know a few couples who are happily married AND have been for decades. DAILY WORK is the common denominator. No one is exempt from it. And, work isn't always easy and fun.
> 
> I read some of your previous posts. I don't necessarily believe the finance thing. It seems to me that you're using it as an excuse to stay, but then complain that married life (with this person) is not to your liking. You don't want her to touch you, you fantasize about other women when having sex, you say she puts too much energy in her work, she doesn't do anything around the house, etc...
> 
> If life with your wife was so bad (as you have said for these 2+ years), why not just leave? Money shouldn't really make a difference because then you would be free of her. And, you would be happy. That's what you want, right?


You don't believe the finance thing? Not sure why, that is the reason I am still here. Money would make a difference, because as of right now, I could not pay all of my bills (too much debt still) on the salary I currently have. 

As for the "easy" relationships. I do know someone who has that. I am very close to them and they are so happy with one another. Sadly it took them both getting out of marriages they were extremely unhappy in and then found each other. They never fight, they share responsibilities equally, they have similar interests and do things together. I don't think that is asking for much. 
Yes I want to be happy, but that is not going to happen if I can't afford to support myself. Finances are the number 1 priority.


----------



## ImStillHere

gbrad said:


> Finances are the number 1 priority.


This the problem. Your WIFE should be number 1. 

I hope once you get all the money you need you'll leave her so she can be with someone else who truly loves her and appreciates her, faults and all.


----------



## ImStillHere

BTW...your ONE friend who has an easy marriage. I'm sure he/she isn't telling you every gory detail.


----------



## gbrad

ImStillHere said:


> This the problem. Your WIFE should be number 1.
> 
> I hope once you get all the money you need you'll leave her so she can be with someone else who truly loves her and appreciates her, faults and all.


I hope that happens as well. We both deserve to be happy in life. Right now, neither of us are happy. It is both of our faults. We could both be doing a better job to give what the other needs in the marriage. The problem that I have found is that only I am willing to try to change to give what the other needs. I have tried over the years to do the things she needs from me. She has not done that for me.


----------



## gbrad

ImStillHere said:


> BTW...your ONE friend who has an easy marriage. I'm sure he/she isn't telling you every gory detail.


No, this person is quite honest with me. I have been very honest with them about my marriage as well. He talks to me about the relationship he is in (not married, but might as well be). They are older by about 20 some years than I. He talks to me about his previous marriage and the difference with this one. They have never fought, never gotten mad at each other. They just talk, communicate, and work things out. I have spent a great deal of time with them (related to them). I want what they have.


----------



## ImStillHere

Again, have you been to IC/MC? You never answered that question (and others that were posted previously). 

I'm sure that there are plenty on this forum who can attest to the benefits of therapy, especially when their marriages were at the point of no return. 

Not saying that IC/MC is the cure-all for every individual or marital problem. But it IS nice to have an objective third party in the mix when all other options have been exhausted. 

But it really comes down to what you want. I don't think you want this marriage to work. End of story.


----------



## ImStillHere

gbrad said:


> No, this person is quite honest with me. I have been very honest with them about my marriage as well. He talks to me about the relationship he is in (not married, but might as well be). They are older by about 20 some years than I. He talks to me about his previous marriage and the difference with this one. They have never fought, never gotten mad at each other. *They just talk, communicate, and work things out. *I have spent a great deal of time with them (related to them). I want what they have.


THIS IS DAILY WORK. NO ONE IS EXEMPT. 

BTW, if everything was roses with your friends 24/7/365, there would be no need to "work things out". Issues arise with ALL couples. How you react to them differentiates us. 

And, yes, I will acknowledge that tackling issues can be done without arguments. But that still doesn't diminish the fact that there ARE issues. 

Nonetheless, there are plenty of stats regarding how communication affects (negatively/positively) relationships. I know you know this already. 

Communication was already discussed previously in this thread. But you haven't said if you were going to do anything new. You just keep going back to what you've done in the past. 

But the question remains, are you communicating with her in an effective manner? My guess, no. 

IC/MC will help with this. That is, if you want it to get any better.


----------



## gbrad

No, I have not done any counseling and neither have we has a couple. I have thought about it myself, but I wouldn't want to unless I could go without her knowing. She would want to know what I was going for and what I was talking about. 
As for going as a couple; that would mean we would both have to admit that our marriage was that poor that we needed it. Knowing her, she would not respond well emotionally to that. 

I do want the marriage to get better while it lasts. Do I think or intend for it to last forever at this point, no. But I don't want it to be miserable while it still exists.


----------



## gbrad

Friday night and she is just now on her way home. Probably will be home in another 45-60 min. This after last night not coming home until after 11. And yet she says to me that I could call her and let her and ask her to come home because I have something planned. Funny, because she knows I am always at home wondering when she will get her, sometimes I have things planned, sometimes I don't because I don't think she will be home. Me calling to ask her to come home, never works. But I love how she turns it back on me, though she is the one that never comes home at a decent time. Always working.


----------



## ImStillHere

gbrad said:


> No, I have not done any counseling and neither have we has a couple. I have thought about it myself, but I wouldn't want to unless I could go without her knowing. She would want to know what I was going for and what I was talking about.
> As for going as a couple; that would mean we would both have to admit that our marriage was that poor that we needed it. Knowing her, she would not respond well emotionally to that.
> 
> *I do want the marriage to get better while it lasts. Do I think or intend for it to last forever at this point, no. *But I don't want it to be miserable while it still exists.



Negative thinking will get you nowhere. 

And, I don't think you truly know what your wife wants or how she feels because you keep talking about YOU. You haven't said anything about HER feelings in general...especially, what she has said in response to how you feel. 

From what you HAVE said about your wife, however, I don't think she's an idiot. I think she would be able to acknowledge that your marriage was poor (your word choice). And, if she wants a better marriage, then she will have to take a hard look at herself AND her role in the breakdown of your marriage. 

But do you really know what she wants? Especially given the fact that you have all these negative thoughts and doubts? 

As several others have said already, just be honest with her.


----------



## ImStillHere

I have to ask...are you sure she isn't having an affair?


----------



## gbrad

ImStillHere said:


> I have to ask...are you sure she isn't having an affair?


She's not. She is a workaholic and no. She is extremely honest. If anyone were to have an affair in this relationship, its me. But that has not happened yet.


----------



## eldubya

Hi gbrad:
I was in a similar situation, but had to do the work outside the home to survive financially AND come home and do most of the work in the home. My spouse spent his time on his hobbies, which were messy and hazardous. I never wanted to divorce him, he divorced me because I wasn't fun anymore and he resented it.
I guess my point is, you and/or your spouse may both be exhausted and feeling resentment because you each feel you are doing all the work. I second the advice to go seek counseling--I wish I had done so earlier before I had worked up a huge case of PTSD and drove the XH away! (post-traumatic stress disorder)


----------



## Emerald

Hi - 

People DO get divorced for many reasons; no shame in it; I am divorced & do not walk around hanging my head in shame.

You are trying to get your financial house in order before you split up but meanwhile you want to be "happy" until you can leave.

Doesn't work that way.

The fair & honest way would be to tell your wife now about your plans so she can also make plans.

Many married people live together for financial reasons only. It is a tough economy & they make it work as roommates until they decide to move on or the financial situation changes. Nobody has to "cringe" or worry about the stuff you are worrying about.


----------



## gbrad

Emerald said:


> Hi -
> 
> People DO get divorced for many reasons; no shame in it; I am divorced & do not walk around hanging my head in shame.
> 
> You are trying to get your financial house in order before you split up but meanwhile you want to be "happy" until you can leave.
> 
> Doesn't work that way.
> 
> The fair & honest way would be to tell your wife now about your plans so she can also make plans.
> 
> Many married people live together for financial reasons only. It is a tough economy & they make it work as roommates until they decide to move on or the financial situation changes. Nobody has to "cringe" or worry about the stuff you are worrying about.


I appreciate the response. You are right that the fair and honest thing would be to sit down and tell my wife everything I am thinking and what my plans are. The problem with that is, it's not practical at this time. Financially it would not be smart (roommates for a time after would not happen), the timing is just not there yet. It is getting closer, it is just getting harder to wait for that time. I look at most situations in a logical/practical manner, and I am thinking about those things for her as well when it comes to the timing of it. 
As for the cringe comment, I don't always cringe when she touches me. At night when trying to go to sleep though, I don't like being bothered, and that was one of those situations.


----------



## gbrad

Just another day in paradise. Just can't seem to do anything right to please her. It's just exhausting. And now once again I am home alone because she is off to spend time with a friend.


----------



## gbrad

According to my wife our marriage doesn't have any big problems. She talked with a friend of hers about relationships and they discussed why ours is so good. 
As she said this all I could think was "I wish I could tell you the truth." But anytime I talk about any of the things that bother me, she gets all upset. So it is a lose lose either way.


----------



## rks1

gbrad said:


> No, I have not done any counseling and neither have we has a couple. I have thought about it myself, but I wouldn't want to unless I could go without her knowing. She would want to know what I was going for and what I was talking about.
> *As for going as a couple; that would mean we would both have to admit that our marriage was that poor that we needed it. Knowing her, she would not respond well emotionally to that.*


You don't want to ask her for counseling because you think she will react poorly to it. But don't you think she will react even worse when you ask her out of the blue for a divorce? At least tell her that thoughts of divorce are in your mind. Even if she reacts badly, at least it is the right thing to do. Otherwise, when you have made financial arrangements and she hasn't... not only will she be ambushed emotionally but also financially as well. That's not a very nice thing to do to someone at all.


----------



## forumman83

It sounds like you are not really "into" this woman. If you are into her, however, and it is just not working, then I suggest that you do something drastic to get her attention. I.e. pack your stuff up and stay with a friend or family member for a week and see how she responds. If you are simply "done" with the relationship, I suggest that you simply be honest with her and with yourself.


----------



## gbrad

rks1 said:


> You don't want to ask her for counseling because you think she will react poorly to it. But don't you think she will react even worse when you ask her out of the blue for a divorce? At least tell her that thoughts of divorce are in your mind. Even if she reacts badly, at least it is the right thing to do. Otherwise, when you have made financial arrangements and she hasn't... not only will she be ambushed emotionally but also financially as well. That's not a very nice thing to do to someone at all.


I don't plan on asking for a divorce out of the blue. Eventually I want to plant the seed and have it become partly her idea. But once that gets started the road will be a seriously rough one. I am trying to make financial plans because as it stands if we were to separate now, she is in a better position than me. 



forumman83 said:


> It sounds like you are not really "into" this woman. If you are into her, however, and it is just not working, then I suggest that you do something drastic to get her attention. I.e. pack your stuff up and stay with a friend or family member for a week and see how she responds. If you are simply "done" with the relationship, I suggest that you simply be honest with her and with yourself.


You are right, I am not "into" her. As I said, as much as I want out, the timing is just not good. I believe that about a year from now will be much better, but I want to try and make the time between now and then better as well. 

Yesterday my wife came home after having a conversation with a friend about marriage. Ours came up and it was described as being solid without many issues. That we don't fight and we just seem to work. As she was telling me this I was laughing on the inside because I knew it can seem that way, but only because I don't bring up all the things that piss me off. I try and just keep the peace. 
It's just interesting how different people can view situations.


----------



## This is me

I think how people view your marriage is telling. I could be wrong, but you might be having a MLC fog. Just consider this:

My wife thought our marriage needed to end. It had been a complete disatr in her mind at that time. To me it was like an alien had taken over her body and mind. The alien is now gone, thank God.

Most people that heard our marriage was in trouble were shocked. They all thought we had a great marriage and honestly, I thought so too. But she was convinced I missed all this bad stuff. (It was minimal). We were very compatible, good partners up until the mental illness of a MLC hit her.

You just sound like A Walk Away Husband to me. Planning your escape from built up resentment. IMHO


----------



## gbrad

This is me said:


> I think how people view your marriage is telling. I could be wrong, but you might be having a MLC fog. Just consider this:
> 
> My wife thought our marriage needed to end. It had been a complete disatr in her mind at that time. To me it was like an alien had taken over her body and mind. The alien is now gone, thank God.
> 
> Most people that heard our marriage was in trouble were shocked. They all thought we had a great marriage and honestly, I thought so too. But she was convinced I missed all this bad stuff. (It was minimal). We were very compatible, good partners up until the mental illness of a MLC hit her.
> 
> You just sound like A Walk Away Husband to me. Planning your escape from built up resentment. IMHO


It may seem good to others because I put on a face when I need to. I hate having any controversy or argument when around other people. Of course, this is people on her side saying this. People who see the marriage from my perspective would not say the same things.


----------



## WTBJ

I would suggest you go to counseling, and let her know that you are unhappy with the marriage and that you need to go to a counselor. If she wants to she will go see one too, or say let's go together. If not and she doesn't care, than you simply need to talk this out with a LMFC Licensed Marriage Family Counselor.

This is not because you guys are having fertility issues is it?


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> No I have not met anyone else at this point. Life with her just, it is more work than it is worth. We do very little together. I do everything around the house. It is like I am taking care of and picking up after a kid when at home. We both work full time, but she puts her whole energy into her job. When we do spend time together, I don't really enjoy it anymore. I am not attracted to her, never really was. There is just so much involved and that just keeps building up, that it just doesn't seem worth it. I just keep thinking that life would be much nicer without being married to her. I don't say without her in it, because I do love and care about her. But I want to be with someone I enjoy and who I share a life with.


Why did you marry her if you never really loved her? You seem to be kinda selfish and must believe you can do much better.

There was something that got you to the position where you asked her to marry you. What was it? desperation, low self esteem, or love of some sort?

The grass may seem greener on the other side, but when you get up close to inspect it, you realize your lawn was the best on the block and you will have wished you did not leave.

From your post, it appears she does not know how unhappy you are, which is not fair to her or you. You probably have not tried counseling to attempt to discover what it is you are going through or to see if it can be fixed. 

I would not doubt that you have had, at least and emotional affair with someone from your work.

My recommendation to you is simple. Fix the marriage you have because the next one won't be any easier.

Good luck!


----------



## gbrad

WTBJ said:


> I would suggest you go to counseling, and let her know that you are unhappy with the marriage and that you need to go to a counselor. If she wants to she will go see one too, or say let's go together. If not and she doesn't care, than you simply need to talk this out with a LMFC Licensed Marriage Family Counselor.
> 
> This is not because you guys are having fertility issues is it?


There are those issues, but that is not the reason for the other problems.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> Why did you marry her if you never really loved her? You seem to be kinda selfish and must believe you can do much better.
> 
> There was something that got you to the position where you asked her to marry you. What was it? desperation, low self esteem, or love of some sort?
> 
> The grass may seem greener on the other side, but when you get up close to inspect it, you realize your lawn was the best on the block and you will have wished you did not leave.
> 
> From your post, it appears she does not know how unhappy you are, which is not fair to her or you. You probably have not tried counseling to attempt to discover what it is you are going through or to see if it can be fixed.
> 
> I would not doubt that you have had, at least and emotional affair with someone from your work.
> 
> My recommendation to you is simple. Fix the marriage you have because the next one won't be any easier.
> 
> Good luck!


Why? There were multiple reasons at the time. We were friends, I enjoyed spending time with her, and financially, I needed to. I knew in my mind when I got married that there was a chance it would not last, but it was what I needed at the time. It has been good for both of us. We have helped each other through rough times. I wouldn't go back and change the decision I made, we have both benefited from this marriage. 
Do I think I can find someone better? Better for me yes. Someone who fits with me better, yes.


----------



## This is me

gbrad said:


> It may seem good to others because I put on a face when I need to. I hate having any controversy or argument when around other people. Of course, this is people on her side saying this. People who see the marriage from my perspective would not say the same things.


You sound like my wife 10 months ago. I am sure the people who she confided in thought the worst of me, but our common friends and close family knew better.

You can take the advice of others here or not, your choice. The more you respond not acknowledging your contribution or interest in working on it, the more I am convinced you are in a fog. IMHO.


----------



## This is me

gbrad said:


> Why? There were multiple reasons at the time. We were friends, I enjoyed spending time with her, and financially, I needed to. I knew in my mind when I got married that there was a chance it would not last, but it was what I needed at the time. It has been good for both of us. We have helped each other through rough times. I wouldn't go back and change the decision I made, we have both benefited from this marriage.
> Do I think I can find someone better? Better for me yes. Someone who fits with me better, yes.


I wonder if your wedding vows had any meaning? You say "I knew in my mind when I got married that there was a chance it would not last, but it was what I needed at the time."

Wow! I really feel sorry for you wife and think much less of you. You sound very selfish.

Do her a favor, man up and tell her what you are telling everyone on this board so she can plan her exit like you are.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> Why? There were multiple reasons at the time. We were friends, I enjoyed spending time with her, and financially, I needed to. I knew in my mind when I got married that there was a chance it would not last, but it was what I needed at the time. It has been good for both of us. We have helped each other through rough times. I wouldn't go back and change the decision I made, we have both benefited from this marriage.
> Do I think I can find someone better? Better for me yes. Someone who fits with me better, yes.


So from your response it appears you married her for financial reasons, because you don't marry someone just because they are your friend or you liked spending time with them because everyone likes spending time with their friends. The foundation of your marriage was based on finances. Even now you won't leave because of finances and the potential of her being in a "Better position than you". Why would you continue wasting her youth because you're broke and can't afford to leave. Maybe you should move back in with mommy.

You don't need any assistance from us here, she does. She has no clue of the tornado that is coming and she will need someone to help her get through it. After you break the news to her, hopefully sooner rather than later, recommend this site to her so she can vent and seek guidance, you obviously have your mind made up and you are just waiting for the best opportunity to leave.

Let me ask you. What do you think she would do if you had a stroke and could no longer care for yourself?

What would you do if she had a stroke tomorrow and needed your assistance? Leaving would be much harder then. People would look at you much differently if you left a disabled wife. Maybe you should consider that instead of your finances. You should tell her today. Let her move on and find someone who will love her like she deserves.


----------



## gbrad

You both say you feel sorry for my wife and that I am the bad person here. Also that I am wasting her youth. I don't understand those comments. I don't think anything is being wasted. I don't think that just because a marriage could end in divorce that it was a waste. There have been good times during our marriage. We have helped each other through a great deal of struggles. We both needed each other for various reasons and supported each other through that. Again, I don't see it as a waste. 
I am not broke, I don't need to live with mommy. Not sure where that comment came from. We both work full time, but my income alone at this time, wouldn't be enough to support myself. 
Counseling has been recommended, I don't know how comfortable I am with that. It is not that I am against it, I just don't know if I could actually do that. I have thought about, but I don't know. 
Selfish- if you really think I am selfish then you really have not gotten the grasp of everything involved in my marriage. Everything that I do, everything that I deal with, and everything that I have done to help support her through her various struggles over the years.


----------



## Lon

You are wasting her life because you are checked out but refuse to get off the fence. The waste isn't divorcing her, the waste is to remain on the fence in your marriage for months, years or decades while neither of you are truly fulfilled. At least if you divorce her like you say you want to do then she can heal from that and actually have a shot to make her life fulfilling, and same for you. No excuses, you are either both in the marriage or not and everything I've read from you on this forum gbrad shows that you are not in it.


----------



## Readytogo

gbrad said:


> She's not. She is a workaholic and no. She is extremely honest. If anyone were to have an affair in this relationship, its me. But that has not happened yet.


Havent read all the threads, but this one seems to suggest you may have your eye on someone else. Causing you to work out and pull away from your wifes touch. 

Have you been talking to another woman? 

Been looking around on social networks?


----------



## Readytogo

Lon said:


> You are wasting her life because you are checked out but refuse to get off the fence. The waste isn't divorcing her, the waste is to remain on the fence in your marriage for months, years or decades while neither of you are truly fulfilled. At least if you divorce her like you say you want to do then she can heal from that and actually have a shot to make her life fulfilling, and same for you. No excuses, you are either both in the marriage or not and everything I've read from you on this forum gbrad shows that you are not in it.


I agree with the above. Stop dragging your feet. 
If you wait till your financially more stable - that means more alimony to her anyways. When I leav my husband I dont want to be making more than him. Not sure how it works in your state.
And she doesnt deserve to waste anymore of her time on someone that dosnt love her. She deserves to be loved back.

End it and let her move on.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> You both say you feel sorry for my wife and that I am the bad person here. Also that I am wasting her youth. I don't understand those comments. I don't think anything is being wasted. I don't think that just because a marriage could end in divorce that it was a waste. There have been good times during our marriage. We have helped each other through a great deal of struggles. We both needed each other for various reasons and supported each other through that. Again, I don't see it as a waste.
> I am not broke, I don't need to live with mommy. Not sure where that comment came from. We both work full time, but my income alone at this time, wouldn't be enough to support myself.
> Counseling has been recommended, I don't know how comfortable I am with that. It is not that I am against it, I just don't know if I could actually do that. I have thought about, but I don't know.
> Selfish- if you really think I am selfish then you really have not gotten the grasp of everything involved in my marriage. Everything that I do, everything that I deal with, and everything that I have done to help support her through her various struggles over the years.


You know that you are getting a divorce. You just can't do it yet because you have no money if you leave. That qualifies this situation as wasting her youth. She could be out meeting someone new who will love her for who she is, but instead she is with you, who she believes is in love with her. How about if you tell her the following and see if she thinks she is wasting her time:

Honey, I don't think I ever loved you and I married you out of convenience and my need for financial support. But I think within a year, I'll be able to save enough money to leave you. That is my intent. I do not want to go to counseling because I'm certain of my eventual decision to leave you, but in the mean time, could you work a little more so I can save money faster because I really can't stand you now. Oh, remember what you were saying about our relationship the other day, how it was a good solid relationship. I laughed inside, because you are completely clueless. But just wait, in a year I will be gone. Try not to annoy me during that period please.


After you tell her that, let me know if she's on the same page.

P.S. If your income isn't enough to support you, then you are broke and you may need to move in with your mommy.


----------



## gbrad

Readytogo said:


> Havent read all the threads, but this one seems to suggest you may have your eye on someone else. Causing you to work out and pull away from your wifes touch.
> 
> Have you been talking to another woman?
> 
> Been looking around on social networks?


No, there is nobody else. Yes I am working out. If the marriage ends I want to be in good shape so I can look good to try and get someone else. But there is nobody else at this time.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> No, there is nobody else. Yes I am working out. If the marriage ends I want to be in good shape so I can look good to try and get someone else. But there is nobody else at this time.


Wow! I'm done viewing this thread. You are just an awful person.


----------



## gbrad

You guys make it seem like it is just so simple and uncomplicated. There is so much more to it. I do not think that it is wrong of me to think practically in these situations. There was a time a couple years ago where if we divorced I would have been much better off financially than my wife. I was not going to do that to her. Now she is in a position where she could support herself financially on her own. I should be in a place like that in the near future. I am trying to do this the smart way, think with my head, not my heart and make rational decisions here. I have watched people get divorced without thinking it through, they had a huge hole to dig out of that could have been avoided if they thought it through ahead of time. It is about long term plans, not just the right now. 
I care about my wife, I have no desire to hurt her. If/when it does end I want it to be made out that this is what is best for both of us, that we will both benefit from it. There will be some pain and hurt, but the goal will be to make it as little as possible. If that requires some lies to soften the blow, then that is what I will do to prevent even more hurt for her. 
Right now, neither of us are in a position where we could well handle a divorce. It would not be smart timing for either of us. I am thinking about both of us and how it will affect both us. This isn't just about me. It's not like I want to just say goodbye I'm moving on. I want to find a way to make it be civil, peaceful, and be able to communicate afterwards. Even find a way to still be friendly afterwards, I sure don't want to lose all contact with her. I care about her, but I just don't want to live with her and be married to her forever.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> Wow! I'm done viewing this thread. You are just an awful person.


How does that make me an awful person? Would it have been better if I said I was working out because there is someone else? Really.


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> ...I am trying to do this the smart way, think with my head, not my heart and make rational decisions here. I have watched people get divorced without thinking it through, they had a huge hole to dig out of that could have been avoided if they thought it through ahead of time. *It is about long term plans, not just the right now.
> I care about my wife, I have no desire to hurt her. If/when it does end I want it to be made out that this is what is best for both of us, that we will both benefit from it*. There will be some pain and hurt, but the goal will be to make it as little as possible. If that requires some lies to soften the blow, then that is what I will do to prevent even more hurt for her.
> Right now, neither of us are in a position where we could well handle a divorce. It would not be smart timing for either of us. I am thinking about both of us and how it will affect both us. This isn't just about me. It's not like I want to just say goodbye I'm moving on. I want to find a way to make it be civil, peaceful, and be able to communicate afterwards. Even find a way to still be friendly afterwards, I sure don't want to lose all contact with her. I care about her, but I just don't want to live with her and be married to her forever.


No you have your mind made up, no amount of further thinking this is going to change things, it requires action which you are making clear you do not want to do to restore the love and faith in your marriage. This is not and should not be about making it to look like the best interest for both of you, it is about the best interest for you. And yes it will devastate her, you will not be friends after this, divorce is choosing to leave your W. Saying "if/when it ends" is complete and utter bullsht because you are holding onto that ball completely, it is more like "when you end it". So get on with it, delaying is doing neither of you favors, neither of you are going to be more well equipped to deal with this later, the longer you delay the worse the sense of betrayal she will feel - you owe both of you nothing but raw unadulterated truth. Tell her how you feel and what you want and you will get it, there is no other way.


----------



## tennisstar

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> Wow! I'm done viewing this thread. You are just an awful person.


An awful person? Some of you are letting your own experiences bias your views. This man does not sound awful. 

Finances are a concern. Anyone who has ever worked full time and has still been broke knows that.

It sounds like both parties are unhappy in some respects. She's a workaholic who comes home late a lot and then, spends time with friends. He is not attracted to her and is done with the marriage. Neither party is awful. 

Can you get a second job to pay off some debt? Cut some bills to save money? You need to come up with an exit plan and let her know as soon as you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gbrad

tennisstar said:


> An awful person? Some of you are letting your own experiences bias your views. This man does not sound awful.
> 
> Finances are a concern. Anyone who has ever worked full time and has still been broke knows that.
> 
> It sounds like both parties are unhappy in some respects. She's a workaholic who comes home late a lot and then, spends time with friends. He is not attracted to her and is done with the marriage. Neither party is awful.
> 
> Can you get a second job to pay off some debt? Cut some bills to save money? You need to come up with an exit plan and let her know as soon as you can.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I appreciate your comments. As in any relationship there are 2 people involved that are to blame for things that go wrong. I always thought there was a chance this could end in divorce, but at the same time I hoped it could turn out well and last. I knew it could go either way. I wanted the best though. That is in part why I keep saying If/when, we don't know what will happen in life for sure. I can't guarantee anything. 
You ask about a second job, I am currently finishing of a degree that will enable me to get a better job. I don't have the time right now to work extra. Once I am finished and I am able to secure that new job that makes more (currently in a respectable job but just not what I want) I willb e able to pay all of the debt myself and not have financial issues.


----------



## GetTough

synthetic said:


> Have you told your wife about your intentions and feelings?
> 
> It would be very wrong if you haven't.


If a spouse is hurting, they have a duty to share that. To allow resentment to build in themselves without giving the other person a chance (or even an ultimatum if necessary) to fix things is a betrayal of the marriage. I would ask OP if he thinks his wife is really going to prefer divorce to an ultimatum? Not likely. Brushing the problem under the carpet for not wanting to hurt the other person is therefore really just a lack of courage. It has no rational basis. (Edit: or rather a rational basis like finances is purely devious and manipulative). It's clearly better for the person who's about to be left that they are told as early and as strongly as possible about what's not working and what needs to happen to fix things.


----------



## This is me

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> Wow! I'm done viewing this thread. You are just an awful person.


Me too. All my sympathy is with your wife.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> How does that make me an awful person? Would it have been better if I said I was working out because there is someone else? Really.


Not telling her your plans to leave her allows her to plan a future with you in it. She may be considering children, etc. You know right now with absolute certainty that you will be leaving her in the foreseeable future. That is not fair to her and makes you an awful person. This is not a competition about who leaves the relationship in better financial shape. There are real feelings here that are continuing to get stronger for you, by her. 

Not telling her your plans makes you an awful person. Why can't you just go rent a room from someone close to your work and spare her another wasted year?


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

tennisstar said:


> An awful person? Some of you are letting your own experiences bias your views. This man does not sound awful.
> 
> Finances are a concern. Anyone who has ever worked full time and has still been broke knows that.
> 
> It sounds like both parties are unhappy in some respects. She's a workaholic who comes home late a lot and then, spends time with friends. He is not attracted to her and is done with the marriage. Neither party is awful.
> 
> Can you get a second job to pay off some debt? Cut some bills to save money? You need to come up with an exit plan and let her know as soon as you can.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I disagree. I have several children and a wife that is a homemaker. If I left, I would be broke, much like GBrad. I have been having issues in my marriage too and sought out counseling in hopes of fixing my marriage. I know that if counseling does not work, I will be divorced and broke. I would have to rent a room and let a lot of things go, but I value both my time and my wife's time too much to waste it.

I see his point in saving a little cash so you can fly if you need to, but planning a divorce over a year away seems so wrong to me. 

GBrad. Why can't you tell her the truth and ask her to be your roommate for a while until you can both afford a place of your own. Then at least she'll know what she is up against and can decide for herself if it is in both of your "best interests" to stick around. I have a feeling you already know what she would do, which is why you are not telling her.


----------



## tennisstar

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> Not telling her your plans to leave her allows her to plan a future with you in it. She may be considering children, etc. You know right now with absolute certainty that you will be leaving her in the foreseeable future. That is not fair to her and makes you an awful person. This is not a competition about who leaves the relationship in better financial shape. There are real feelings here that are continuing to get stronger for you, by her.
> 
> Not telling her your plans makes you an awful person. Why can't you just go rent a room from someone close to your work and spare her another wasted year?


Awful? Wow, a strong word. He's not a child molester. He's not having an affair. He hasn't murdered someone. Yes, he needs to tell her, but he isn't awful. Like I said, some of you are letting your own experiences cloud your judgement. And don't say I wouldn't know. I've been cheated on and left without having any idea the man was unhappy. It hurts, yes, but not awful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GetTough

gbrad said:


> According to my wife our marriage doesn't have any big problems. She talked with a friend of hers about relationships and they discussed why ours is so good.
> As she said this all I could think was "I wish I could tell you the truth." But anytime I talk about any of the things that bother me, she gets all upset. So it is a lose lose either way.


This is just spineless! Get a backbone, man! You think the next woman you hook up with is going to want a man who's afraid of her getting upset? You'll be taking this issue (and it's a big one) into your next relationship. To paraphrase Churchill, doing your best (peaceful life) is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. You must succeed at what's necessary. What's necessary is that you find the courage to share your feelings with your wife, not in a mean way but with a strength that conveys how you truly feel. You're increasing the chances of an acrimonious divorce by keeping her on a string for financial reasons. She will likely hate you for that.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

tennisstar said:


> Awful? Wow, a strong word. He's not a child molester. He's not having an affair. He hasn't murdered someone. Yes, he needs to tell her, but he isn't awful. Like I said, some of you are letting your own experiences cloud your judgement. And don't say I wouldn't know. I've been cheated on and left without having any idea the man was unhappy. It hurts, yes, but not awful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I had better words, but they would get me banned.


----------



## tennisstar

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> I had better words, but they would get me banned.


So any time we see a woman get on here and say she's a SAHM who wants to leave her husband but can't due to finances, we had better call her awful. How dare she consider finances and create an exit plan. How awful!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GetTough

tennisstar said:


> So any time we see a woman get on here and say she's a SAHM who wants to leave her husband but can't due to finances, we had better call her awful. How dare she consider finances and create an exit plan. How awful!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Any spouse who is planning something that they can't share with the other is already betraying them.


----------



## tennisstar

GetTough said:


> Any spouse who is planning something that they can't share with the other is already betraying them.


Well, I see people here all the time tell women in those situations to develop an exit plan. I don't think anyone has called them awful. 

This board discourages me. I think a lot of people try to help others, but because of their experiences, are soooo biased.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GetTough

tennisstar said:


> Well, I see people here all the time tell women in those situations to develop an exit plan. I don't think anyone has called them awful.
> 
> This board discourages me. I think a lot of people try to help others, but because of their experiences, are soooo biased.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well there are exit plans and there are exit plans. You can be trying to achieve a fairer, more peaceful divorce especially if kids are involved. Or you can be trying to get as much as you can get away with. Most divorces are a betrayal to a greater or lesser degree. I believe an honorable person tries to minimize the betrayal.


----------



## gbrad

This is me said:


> Me too. All my sympathy is with your wife.


I don't think that is fair. I have sympathy with my wife, but I know how much I do for her and how much she loves me. I do make her happy. That holds great value. 



Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> Not telling her your plans to leave her allows her to plan a future with you in it. She may be considering children, etc. You know right now with absolute certainty that you will be leaving her in the foreseeable future. That is not fair to her and makes you an awful person. This is not a competition about who leaves the relationship in better financial shape. There are real feelings here that are continuing to get stronger for you, by her.
> 
> Not telling her your plans makes you an awful person. Why can't you just go rent a room from someone close to your work and spare her another wasted year?


We can't have children, so we both want them, but without something different to affect it, it wont happen. If we are married for the next 12-18 months before I say anything about a divorce, is it that wrong that I want us to both be happier during this time. I don't want it to be miserable, I just want someone in the end that I have more in common with and desire more. I will ALWAYS care about her and hope the best for her. I do love her as a person. I see it as another year with me, if we make it peaceful and happy isn't wasted, its another year with me, since she loves, thats good. 



Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> I disagree. I have several children and a wife that is a homemaker. If I left, I would be broke, much like GBrad. I have been having issues in my marriage too and sought out counseling in hopes of fixing my marriage. I know that if counseling does not work, I will be divorced and broke. I would have to rent a room and let a lot of things go, but I value both my time and my wife's time too much to waste it.
> 
> I see his point in saving a little cash so you can fly if you need to, but planning a divorce over a year away seems so wrong to me.
> 
> GBrad. Why can't you tell her the truth and ask her to be your roommate for a while until you can both afford a place of your own. Then at least she'll know what she is up against and can decide for herself if it is in both of your "best interests" to stick around. I have a feeling you already know what she would do, which is why you are not telling her.


I don't want to tell her the truth because I don't want to hurt her. I want her to be happy. I know that the idea of being roomates while still married for financial sake would never happen. I know her well enough to know she wouldn't go for that. 

Again, I am trying to plan to make the process go as best as possible. Maybe I am over analyzing the process, but that is in my nature. I love her and I just want us both to be happy.


----------



## gbrad

GetTough said:


> Well there are exit plans and there are exit plans. You can be trying to achieve a fairer, more peaceful divorce especially if kids are involved. Or you can be trying to get as much as you can get away with. Most divorces are a betrayal to a greater or lesser degree. I believe an honorable person tries to minimize the betrayal.


I love my wife, and she loves me. But do I know that she deserves someone who is completely in love with her, Yes. I know that. Life choices are not easy choices. Some people keep saying I am a coward or spineless. Maybe that is true, I feel like I am just being cautious and planning as much out as I can. I don't want to hurt anyone. I want to be happy and I don't know how to be. What I have figured out is that it is not going to happen in this marriage. As much as I would love to tell her now, emotionally I know she still needs me. Financially I could make it on my own some how now. But she needs me right now. I need her to be in a stronger place. I think she will get there, but as I have said the timing is not right. It is not right for her and it is not right for me. Some of you have read how I have said she is a workaholic. Work is very stressful for her right now. In the next year there should be changes that should make it not as stressful and I think she will be in a better place emotionally. At the same time I should be in a better place financially. 
I am planning. I don't want to screw either of us over. I know some of you don't like it, but I am a planner, that is what I am going to do.

My overall issue right now is trying to make it better in the mean time.


----------



## GetTough

gbrad said:


> I love my wife, and she loves me. But do I know that she deserves someone who is completely in love with her, Yes. I know that. Life choices are not easy choices. Some people keep saying I am a coward or spineless. Maybe that is true, I feel like I am just being cautious and planning as much out as I can. I don't want to hurt anyone. I want to be happy and I don't know how to be. What I have figured out is that it is not going to happen in this marriage. As much as I would love to tell her now, emotionally I know she still needs me. Financially I could make it on my own some how now. But she needs me right now. I need her to be in a stronger place. I think she will get there, but as I have said the timing is not right. It is not right for her and it is not right for me. Some of you have read how I have said she is a workaholic. Work is very stressful for her right now. In the next year there should be changes that should make it not as stressful and I think she will be in a better place emotionally. At the same time I should be in a better place financially.
> I am planning. I don't want to screw either of us over. I know some of you don't like it, but I am a planner, that is what I am going to do.
> 
> My overall issue right now is trying to make it better in the mean time.


There will never be a "good time". So what could happen is that it will come out, unplanned, at perhaps one of the worst times, when you are both under stress.

You say you have figured out that being happy is not going to happen for you in this marriage. I say that if you gave her an ultimatum you might have a lot more chance of being happy in the marriage than you realize right now. People can change in amazing ways given enough support and time, and knowing that their marriage is on the line.


----------



## Lon

I feel awful for you W gbrad - she is already divorced just nobody has informed her yet.

That was probably the most sour, sickening feeling when my W finally executed her exit plan. Sure, the fact she cheated as part of it really sucked, and the fact that it was over and I had to let go was the hardest thing I've ever faced, but its the fact that she had this all worked out in her mind that she was checked out but I was a fool because nobody let me in on that, I was struggling for almost a year trying to figure out why she was so closed off, why the things I was trying to work at were all so futile, no matter what I did, or said - even the things I said and did, was all "too little too late". That was humiliating to be made such a chump, and its why when I decided to let go and go dark I found it so easy, because I lost all respect for her and the way she behaved literally disgusts me.

That is why I scoff at your suggestion that you will remain good friends after this, especially the way you are deceiving her and stringing her along. The only way you will be able to salvage any respect from her through this is to be honest, tell her that you know the timing is not good but she deserves to know that you are checked out of the marriage and that you want a divorce, that you want to make it as amicable as possible.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

tennisstar said:


> So any time we see a woman get on here and say she's a SAHM who wants to leave her husband but can't due to finances, we had better call her awful. How dare she consider finances and create an exit plan. How awful!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. If the circumstances were the same, I would think she was awful too.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> Yes. If the circumstances were the same, I would think she was awful too.


I wouldn't think either person is awful. We have a lot of decisions to make in life and things are never easy. We do the best we can and there is no reason to assume the person is awful.


----------



## gbrad

GetTough said:


> There will never be a "good time". So what could happen is that it will come out, unplanned, at perhaps one of the worst times, when you are both under stress.
> 
> You say you have figured out that being happy is not going to happen for you in this marriage. I say that if you gave her an ultimatum you might have a lot more chance of being happy in the marriage than you realize right now. People can change in amazing ways given enough support and time, and knowing that their marriage is on the line.


Just like people say there is not a good time to have kids I get there is not a good time to get divorced. But there are better times. To me, someone is a fool who does not plan and think ahead. Just diving in whether it be to a marriage or a divorce is not the smart choice.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> I don't think that is fair. I have sympathy with my wife, but I know how much I do for her and how much she loves me. I do make her happy. That holds great value.
> 
> 
> 
> We can't have children, so we both want them, but without something different to affect it, it wont happen. If we are married for the next 12-18 months before I say anything about a divorce, is it that wrong that I want us to both be happier during this time. I don't want it to be miserable, I just want someone in the end that I have more in common with and desire more. I will ALWAYS care about her and hope the best for her. I do love her as a person. I see it as another year with me, if we make it peaceful and happy isn't wasted, its another year with me, since she loves, thats good.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to tell her the truth because I don't want to hurt her. I want her to be happy. I know that the idea of being roomates while still married for financial sake would never happen. I know her well enough to know she wouldn't go for that.
> 
> Again, I am trying to plan to make the process go as best as possible. Maybe I am over analyzing the process, but that is in my nature. I love her and I just want us both to be happy.


You are the one planning it so "the process" goes well for you, not her. She is oblivious to your plan. Her love for you probably grows more and more as each day passes. You state, "I don't want to tell her the truth because I don't want to hurt her. I want her to be happy," yet in the same sentence you talk about finances. The reality is, this is solely a financial decision by you It has nothing to do with not wanting to hurt her. The longer you wait, the more it will hurt her. When you finally hit her with the news a year or a year and a half from now, she will be devastated and want to know how long you have felt this way. At that point, will you show her this thread, or will you simply say it's been going on for a while? Even then she may want to R, but you will have all that money saved and she will not know the better. You get to move on smoothly with your life and potentially a new woman by that point and she will remain devastated, probably posting on a site much like this one. We will be here to help her get through it while you walk away in a "Better position" than her. You're right, that's not selfish (sarcasm intended).


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

Again I pose this question to you gbrad. If she were to fall ill or be involved in an accident in the next year and a half to the degree where she needs your daily assistance, while you wait to save your fortune, what will you do?

Will you stay for the rest of your life caring for her?

or;

Will you continue with your plan to leave?

Imagine what people would say about a husband who left his disabled wife.

What would the courts say about your responsibility to her and her illness.

What if she lost her job during this time? You would then be responsible to pay her alimony.

Every day you stay with someone you plan to leave, you run the risk of placing yourself in this predicament. 

Truth is, you are in the best position to leave right now and you can't see past your own selfishness to realize it.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> You are the one planning it so "the process" goes well for you, not her. She is oblivious to your plan. Her love for you probably grows more and more as each day passes. You state, "I don't want to tell her the truth because I don't want to hurt her. I want her to be happy," yet in the same sentence you talk about finances. The reality is, this is solely a financial decision by you It has noting to do with not wanting to hurt her. The longer you wait, the more it will hurt her. When you finally hit her with the news a year or a year and a half from now, she will be devastated and want to know how long you have felt this way. At that point, will you show her this thread, or will you simply say it's been going on for a while? Even then she may want to R, but you will have all that money saved and she will not know the better. You get to move on smoothly with your life and potentially a new woman by that point and she will remain devastated, probably posting on a site much like this one. We will be here to help her get through it while you walk away in a "Better position" than her. You're right, that's not selfish (sarcasm intended).


Do you really think I don't care about her and her happiness? If that is true then you could not be more wrong. I love her, I care about her a great deal. She is my wife, she is my friend. Even though I want to move on and am not in love with her, I will always always care about her until the day I die. You don't have to believe that, but I know it. I am not really saving much, right now I am not really saving anything extra. The biggest concern is getting the job I need, not saving extra for myself. For me it has more to do with finances. The waiting, for myself is financially based, but the divorce itself, no. I think we will both be happier when we eventually find someone else who gives us what we need. She can find someone she can have children with and who will give her the type of attention she needs. I will find someone I am attracted to and have things in common with. 
We will both benefit long term. For the short term, we need each others support. 
I still need to figure out how to make it better for the short term without bringing any of these issues to light.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> Again I pose this question to you gbrad. If she were to fall ill or be involved in an accident in the next year and a half to the degree where she needs your daily assistance, while you wait to save your fortune, what will you do?
> 
> Will you stay for the rest of your life caring for her?
> 
> or;
> 
> Will you continue with your plan to leave?
> 
> Imagine what people would say about a husband who left his disabled wife.
> 
> What would the courts say about your responsibility to her and her illness.
> 
> What if she lost her job during this time? You would then be responsible to pay her alimony.
> 
> Every day you stay with someone you plan to leave, you run the risk of placing yourself in this predicament.
> 
> Truth is, you are in the best position to leave right now and you can't see past your own selfishness to realize it.


I guess the illness risk (%'s are small for that) is a risk I am willing to take. I just don't believe that will happen. Things like that that don't happen as often, I can't contemplate. 

You think it is bad I am planning. I get that. I think it would be dumb for me not to To just rping this on someone without a plan for what to do. People don't just get married without planning it out first, why should someone be expected to get divorced without planning it out first? These are big life decisions. They are not spure of the moment decisions. People need to be prepared for big events in their life.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> I guess the illness risk (%'s are small for that) is a risk I am willing to take. I just don't believe that will happen. Things like that that don't happen as often, I can't contemplate.
> 
> You think it is bad I am planning. I get that. I think it would be dumb for me not to To just rping this on someone without a plan for what to do. People don't just get married without planning it out first, why should someone be expected to get divorced without planning it out first? These are big life decisions. They are not spure of the moment decisions. People need to be prepared for big events in their life.


The difference is when people get married, they plan together.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

By the way, we're going back into a recession, if not a world-wide great depression, so the odds of you finding a better job are slim to none.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> By the way, we're going back into a recession, if not a world-wide great depression, so the odds of you finding a better job are slim to none.


Thanks for the encouragement as I plan to leave my job within the next 6 months to move into a different field. My life depends on this job change. Again, thanks for the encouragement.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> The difference is when people get married, they plan together.


Almost all of the planning during the marriage has been left up to me. Remember, I do just about everything within our household. It is exhausting everything I have to do. But, it is very wrong that I want someone who I can share that with.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

Just here to help.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> Almost all of the planning during the marriage has been left up to me. Remember, I do just about everything within our household. It is exhausting everything I have to do. But, it is very wrong that I want someone who I can share that with.


You missed the point.


----------



## sisters359

Because no kids are involved, you have nothing stopping you but . . . you. 

You are being controlled by your fear--how she will react if you say anything about counseling, about divorce; about how your life "depends" on that job change/new job. Talk about catastrophic thinking! No, your life does NOT depend on a specific job. And no, another person's reaction to bad news is not the end of the world. 

Just go, will you? The misery in your posts is patent--and it's all your own doing. Get past the fear by doing all the things that frighten you so much. That's the best way, given that you have no desire to actually work on the marriage or remain married to her. 

I'm not judging you--just reacting to what you say and how you say it. I do not think every marriage is worth saving. But I do think life is too short to waste yet another year in misery.


----------



## GetTough

sisters359 said:


> Because no kids are involved, you have nothing stopping you but . . . you.
> 
> You are being controlled by your fear--how she will react if you say anything about counseling, about divorce; about how your life "depends" on that job change/new job. Talk about catastrophic thinking! No, your life does NOT depend on a specific job. And no, another person's reaction to bad news is not the end of the world.
> 
> Just go, will you? The misery in your posts is patent--and it's all your own doing. Get past the fear by doing all the things that frighten you so much. That's the best way, given that you have no desire to actually work on the marriage or remain married to her.
> 
> I'm not judging you--just reacting to what you say and how you say it. I do not think every marriage is worth saving. But I do think life is too short to waste yet another year in misery.


That's the thing. He'll be having another sad year and stringing her along for another year unless he speaks up. All for what? What price his soul?


----------



## gbrad

sisters359 said:


> Because no kids are involved, you have nothing stopping you but . . . you.
> 
> You are being controlled by your fear--how she will react if you say anything about counseling, about divorce; about how your life "depends" on that job change/new job. Talk about catastrophic thinking! No, your life does NOT depend on a specific job. And no, another person's reaction to bad news is not the end of the world.
> 
> Just go, will you? The misery in your posts is patent--and it's all your own doing. Get past the fear by doing all the things that frighten you so much. That's the best way, given that you have no desire to actually work on the marriage or remain married to her.
> 
> I'm not judging you--just reacting to what you say and how you say it. I do not think every marriage is worth saving. But I do think life is too short to waste yet another year in misery.


You are right, I am stopping me. I am not ready. I do want to work on the marriage. I want things to be better, happier right now. That is why I started this, in an effort to try and come up with ideas of how to make things better right now. 

My life depends on that job in the sense that I am working my ass off to be able to get it and if I don't it will drastically change the course of events that happens in my life. If I don't get a job that I will be looking for, I will have to stay married for the forseable future.


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> ...I want things to be better, happier right now. That is why I started this, in an effort to try and come up with ideas of how to make things better right now.


Then I think I still have the answer and will spell it out again: h-o-n-e-s-t-y


----------



## moxy

If you have not tried talking to her first, then do so. If you're afraid, then write her a letter and ask her to write back to your concerns. You're giving up without even trying. Life won't be easier after divorce because you're just running away from your problem instead of trying to confront it and you'll be more likely to keep doing so. Just talk to her. Keeping these feelings from her will hurt her a lot more than talking about them. It's worth the risk to talk to her because things could get a lot better, but if you say nothing, they'll get worse. You're not voicing your needs so how can she meet them?


----------



## This is me

WAW:

"Exit strategies often take years to execute and during that time women are focused on fortifying their resources, not fixing their marriages. The absence of complaints has their husbands believing that things have improved; they’re out of the dog house. “No news is good news,” they tell themselves as they obliviously continue to lead separate lives. But then “D-Day” arrives and their wives inform them that the marriages are over, triggering shock and devastation."

There is nothing noble in planning an exit strategy and keeping it from your spouse. This is the ultimate selfish act.


----------



## Starstarfish

If you really wanted to get divorced, you'd readjust your exceptions of your living situation, and move on. But, instead, it seems you want to have your wife work hard (which you say you resent) so she can help you save up money while she's helping to pay the bills, so that you have the ability to leave her. 

You are using your wife. You are using her so that you can change careers and pursue your goals while she works hard, and as soon as you are more stable, you are planning on taking off, rather than put any effort at all into your relationship. You are using your wife to maintain a lifestyle that you otherwise couldn't have without her (you admit this yourself), but basically don't want anything to do with her. 

You are right, people should be able to plan for divorce, but you seem to feel only you should be able to make those preparations. Your wife should just continue on as if everything is fine and/or tolerable, until you send her papers. 

If things might calm down and be less stressful, why don't you look forward to that as a time you can fix your relationship? Instead, you just look forward to that being a good time to divorce her. 

If you really cared about her feelings, you'd tell her, not justify why it's right to deceive her so you can accomplish your perfect financial exit plan. She's going to be devastated either way, but you can try not to rub extra salt in the wounds by using her for another year.


----------



## Starstarfish

Also, if you know she wants to have children, the longer you put off your divorce for "financial reasons" the longer you delay that possibility for her with someone else, and the older she gets so that gets harder and harder anyways. 

Stay using her as your personal banker, and let her go, if you really care about her.

Edited to add: Also, wanting things to be happy now, will just make planning the D even more deceptive to your wife, who will, as any rational person would, assume that things are improving because you are working in improving the relationship, not working on keeping things happy and calm until you blindside her with divorce.


----------



## gbrad

Starstarfish said:


> If you really wanted to get divorced, you'd readjust your exceptions of your living situation, and move on. But, instead, it seems you want to have your wife work hard (which you say you resent) so she can help you save up money while she's helping to pay the bills, so that you have the ability to leave her.
> 
> You are using your wife. You are using her so that you can change careers and pursue your goals while she works hard, and as soon as you are more stable, you are planning on taking off, rather than put any effort at all into your relationship. You are using your wife to maintain a lifestyle that you otherwise couldn't have without her (you admit this yourself), but basically don't want anything to do with her.
> 
> .


I am not using my wife. Now maybe if I were not working then that would be the case. You say I want to have her work hard, well I work hard as well. We both work full time, she just puts more into it than me. She puts more into her work than most people. That is her choice. Maintain a lifestyle? Yes, one where the bills are paid, food is on the table, and some money gets saved. The way you talk its as if we have some lavish life style and that is faaaaar from the truth.


----------



## gbrad

Starstarfish said:


> Also, if you know she wants to have children, the longer you put off your divorce for "financial reasons" the longer you delay that possibility for her with someone else, and the older she gets so that gets harder and harder anyways.
> 
> Stay using her as your personal banker, and let her go, if you really care about her.
> 
> Edited to add: Also, wanting things to be happy now, will just make planning the D even more deceptive to your wife, who will, as any rational person would, assume that things are improving because you are working in improving the relationship, not working on keeping things happy and calm until you blindside her with divorce.


Personal banker? That's humorous. It's not like there weren't times when I made more money. It would be stupid of me to try and walk away when we are making the most combined money we ever have. 
And your edit comment about trying to make things happier now. It's like you are saying it is a bad thing that I want things to be happier. As if it would be better off if I left them as they are. 
Also, I do not plan on blindsiding her with a divorce. I would bring it up carefully, as I said earlier I would want to build up to get the idea out there. To show that it would be the best thing for her as well. I wouldn't just one day say here, divorce papers. Hell no. That would be a process we talk through and decide on together.


----------



## GetTough

gbrad said:


> Personal banker? That's humorous. It's not like there weren't times when I made more money. It would be stupid of me to try and walk away when we are making the most combined money we ever have.
> And your edit comment about trying to make things happier now. It's like you are saying it is a bad thing that I want things to be happier. As if it would be better off if I left them as they are.
> Also, I do not plan on blindsiding her with a divorce. I would bring it up carefully, as I said earlier I would want to build up to get the idea out there. To show that it would be the best thing for her as well. I wouldn't just one day say here, divorce papers. Hell no. That would be a process we talk through and decide on together.


I think your post shows a complete lack of appreciation of the effect that dragging out the process has on betrayed spouse. Betrayed spouse needs to be given a clear unequivocal early decision, firmly with kindness, that there is no hope of R, if such is indeed the case. Anything else is just torture for them. You might eventually come up with something like "I'd like a separation", "I need some space" and/or "I love you but I'm not in love with you", thinking you're letting down gently but leaving your W thinking "what does he really mean?", "do I have hope?". You're going to make her beg for something she can't have, if you do that. Which is just plain cruel. If you're done, tell her now. You want out now right? You would be able to get out immediately if you told her now. It's better for you too! I can't imagine what possible job/financial situation would be worth keeping her strung along for another year, for either of you.


----------



## gbrad

Satchel Rage said:


> Why did you marry your wife knowing she was fat?....Seems like that's the main reason why you want to divorce. Just go get a divorce. Scheming on when to divorce is a female tactic, that's not what real men do. I'm not trying to be mean, but real men bite the bullet, take the financial loss and pick themselves up by the boot straps to live another day.
> 
> Tell your wife you are unhappy, you want a divorce and you have no sexual desires for her. It's a simple as that. Running on a forum making sarcastic and condescending comments about her weight on every post is not going to help the situation.


I don't make rants about her weight in every post and my feelings are by no means focused just on that either. There is so much more involved. I have tried to state that. If it was just the weight, I could live with that. 
I don't feel as if I am scheming either. Just trying to work towards the best possible resolution.


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> ...I would bring it up carefully, as I said earlier I would want to build up to get the idea out there. To show that it would be the best thing for her as well. I wouldn't just one day say here, divorce papers. Hell no. That would be a process we talk through and decide on together.


You want to sugarcoat it. I do truly believe you that you don't want to cause her pain or suffering. I hate to break it to you but divorces are never a mutual agreement, it ALWAYS takes one to terminate the marriage first, and in your case because you want to terminate it it HAS to be you. There is no deciding on this together, it falls squarely on you, it is your unilateral choice - you don't go through divorce together, you each go through it alone.


----------



## gbrad

Lon said:


> You want to sugarcoat it. I do truly believe you that you don't want to cause her pain or suffering. I hate to break it to you but divorces are never a mutual agreement, it ALWAYS takes one to terminate the marriage first, and in your case because you want to terminate it it HAS to be you. There is no deciding on this together, it falls squarely on you, it is your unilateral choice - you don't go through divorce together, you each go through it alone.


I understand that divorce seperates people. I have seen divorce at its worst. I have been involved with it at its worst. They don't all have to be like that. They don't all have to be bad if the people make up their mind to be that way.


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> I understand that divorce seperates people. I have seen divorce at its worst. I have been involved with it at its worst. They don't all have to be like that. They don't all have to be bad if the people make up their mind to be that way.


But you do not have the power to make up how your W chooses to deal with it, and any attempts to is just manipulation, and nobody likes that.

Who knows, when you finally tell your W you want the divorce she might just be thinking "thank god, its been so much work trying to repulse you, I had to put on all this weight just to get you to act, it's not easy being such a lousy W but I felt it was better that you were the one to initiate things because manning up was something you needed, but I'm glad you finally stepped up to the plate and let me out of this crappy marriage"


----------



## gbrad

Lon said:


> But you do not have the power to make up how your W chooses to deal with it, and any attempts to is just manipulation, and nobody likes that.
> 
> Who knows, when you finally tell your W you want the divorce she might just be thinking "thank god, its been so much work trying to repulse you, I had to put on all this weight just to get you to act, it's not easy being such a lousy W but I felt it was better that you were the one to initiate things because manning up was something you needed, but I'm glad you finally stepped up to the plate and let me out of this crappy marriage"


Not likely that she would say anything like that. Not as much as she loves me.


----------



## Ayla

I think you're more concerned about appearing to be the good guy than actually being a good guy.

You do all the work (victim) and are forced to live a lie (martyr) to protect the person you love so much. Honest Abe you really want to work it out but gee you know in your heart it won't(excuses) so why waste the effort(obstruction)? 

You paint the picture of a saint.

Why do you do everything? You don't have to. There are no children. How messy does the house get? If you don't cook..what is she going to do beat you? Why does she work so much? Is it really her choice? Is her job competitive? Do you guys actually need that income to survive? Why don't you speak up for yourself? 

Passive aggressive.


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> Not likely that she would say anything like that. Not as much as she loves me.


does she have any clue her love is not reciprocated?


----------



## gbrad

Ayla said:


> I think you're more concerned about appearing to be the good guy than actually being a good guy.
> 
> You do all the work (victim) and are forced to live a lie (martyr) to protect the person you love so much. Honest Abe you really want to work it out but gee you know in your heart it won't(excuses) so why waste the effort(obstruction)?
> 
> You paint the picture of a saint.
> 
> Why do you do everything? You don't have to. There are no children. How messy does the house get? If you don't cook..what is she going to do beat you? Why does she work so much? Is it really her choice? Is her job competitive? Do you guys actually need that income to survive? Why don't you speak up for yourself?
> 
> Passive aggressive.


I won't deny that I am passive aggressive. I do everything because they are things that need to get done and she doesn't do them. If I don't cook, she wont eat as good and I want her to eat. Even with 2 people the house can get messy, especially when one person doesn't put anything away. She works so much because she cares about her job, she wants to do well, and to some extent she defines herself by her job. No its not competitive. Yes, we need 2 incomes to survive. I don't speak up because she is stressed out enough and I don't want to make it worse. I have spoke up about some of the issues in the past, most of the time, nothing changes. She gets upset that I am upset about things and get down on herself, and then I have to fix that also. It just adds more work for myself. I try to do subtle hints and say things when she brings it up. 



Lon said:


> does she have any clue her love is not reciprocated?


I love her, I care about her, I want her to be happy. It's just not passionate love.


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> I love her, I care about her, I want her to be happy. It's just not passionate love.


I'm obviously talking about her passionate love for you - that is the real heartbreaker when she realizes you don't love her the way she loves you and the way she thought you loved her. If you have no passionate love, and have given up trying to, you have to let her go. I'm done reading this thread gbrad - it is making me too sad - I really hope you figure this out soon.


----------



## gbrad

Satchel Rage said:


> How many post approximately have you made about not having a sexual attraction for your wife, or possibly sleeping with another woman?
> 
> How about you show her all your posts on TAM. That way she will know the truth and she is spared from being in a deceptive marriage.


I have never had a sexual attraction to her. People get married for different reasons. Sexual attraction was not the reason I got married.


----------



## Starstarfish

You have stated the only reason you are staying in this marriage is for financial reasons. I don't know what kind of lifestyle you have, or what kinds of bills, but - if two full time working adults have to strain to pay the bills, then, yeah - I'd say even if you don't consider your lifestyle "lavish" - something is straining your budget. 

People do get married for different reasons? What reason did you get married for? What reason did your wife think you got married for? Did she realize she was signing on to be your roommate, to help you pay the bills, while you really don't love her the way you should love your wife? 

You married your wife, knowing full well you weren't attracted to her, and I really doubt she knew that going into the relationship. I doubt she really understands how you have no romantic feelings for her. And no period in time of drawing out the divorce for "financial reasons" is going to make that less painful.


----------



## gbrad

Starstarfish said:


> You have stated the only reason you are staying in this marriage is for financial reasons. I don't know what kind of lifestyle you have, or what kinds of bills, but - if two full time working adults have to strain to pay the bills, then, yeah - I'd say even if you don't consider your lifestyle "lavish" - something is straining your budget.
> 
> People do get married for different reasons? What reason did you get married for? What reason did your wife think you got married for? Did she realize she was signing on to be your roommate, to help you pay the bills, while you really don't love her the way you should love your wife?
> 
> You married your wife, knowing full well you weren't attracted to her, and I really doubt she knew that going into the relationship. I doubt she really understands how you have no romantic feelings for her. And no period in time of drawing out the divorce for "financial reasons" is going to make that less painful.


We don't strain to pay the bills together. On my own I would. That is the big difference. We do just fine with 2 salaries right now. 
I got married to be able to have someone to share my life with, share responsibilities with, share time with, share financial responsibilities with. Yes, I picked someone I considered my friend, who I thought I could have a content life with. I didn't know how great it would turn out, but I hoped. I knew there was a chance it wouldn't be great, but I hoped for the best. No, my wife did not know the way I thought going in. That was my personal choice.


----------



## Lon

You knowingly forfeited your right to complain about lack of sexual satisfaction forever. Nothing has changed in that dept then so why are you complaining and why would you even contemplate divorce or an affair - you are getting exactly what you signed up for. Many men live a happy life celebate, you came to the conclusion before the start of your marriage that you can. Plus if you have urges there is always Ms.Rosie and her five friends.

I really want to be done with this thread, but I might have a few suggestions that may actually be worth some consideration if you want to fulfill those missing needs that you failed horribly at suppressing and keeping bottled up.

Perhaps if you actually communicated with your W and told her about your need for sex instead of just presuming she is incapable of being sexy and not even trying, you would actually have a shot at improving it so you wouldn't even have to face up to the full consequence of your prior dishonesty. She can't read your mind you know - maybe there are certain things she could do, even enjoy doing, to sexually interest you. Exercising, makeover, things to make her feel sexy and good about herself, but unless she has a clue how can you expect her to be able to even attempt to please you like both of you probably want?

Let her into your heart dude, this is your W you will never find a better one unless you take some accountability in your marriage. So what she's fat and asexual - she doesn't always have to be, I bet she wants to be more physical and sexual but why bother when her H seems so disinterested in her sexually. It is an insult that you would have such little faith and not even let her know its on the rocks and you are planning your exit without even giving her a chance.

I suspect it is too late for you though, you seriously are talking like a person who has his sights elsewhere and is just going through the motions to convince yourself you tried and are justified in your choices.


----------



## gbrad

Lon said:


> You knowingly forfeited your right to complain about lack of sexual satisfaction forever. Nothing has changed in that dept then so why are you complaining and why would you even contemplate divorce or an affair - you are getting exactly what you signed up for. Many men live a happy life celebate, you came to the conclusion before the start of your marriage that you can. Plus if you have urges there is always Ms.Rosie and her five friends.
> 
> I really want to be done with this thread, but I might have a few suggestions that may actually be worth some consideration if you want to fulfill those missing needs that you failed horribly at suppressing and keeping bottled up.
> 
> Perhaps if you actually communicated with your W and told her about your need for sex instead of just presuming she is incapable of being sexy and not even trying, you would actually have a shot at improving it so you wouldn't even have to face up to the full consequence of your prior dishonesty. She can't read your mind you know - maybe there are certain things she could do, even enjoy doing, to sexually interest you. Exercising, makeover, things to make her feel sexy and good about herself, but unless she has a clue how can you expect her to be able to even attempt to please you like both of you probably want?
> 
> Let her into your heart dude, this is your W you will never find a better one unless you take some accountability in your marriage. So what she's fat and asexual - she doesn't always have to be, I bet she wants to be more physical and sexual but why bother when her H seems so disinterested in her sexually. It is an insult that you would have such little faith and not even let her know its on the rocks and you are planning your exit without even giving her a chance.
> 
> I suspect it is too late for you though, you seriously are talking like a person who has his sights elsewhere and is just going through the motions to convince yourself you tried and are justified in your choices.


Gave up the right to sexual satisfaction forever. I completely disagree with that. 
No, I am not getting exactly what I signed up for. I said, I had hoped it would be more. It has not been the more I hoped for. 
I am also not sure where I came to the conclusion that I can live happily being celebate either. Why would I contemplate divorce or an affair? To be with someone that makes me happy maybe. 
I have tried to get her to do things that would make her more sexually appealing. She has also tried things at times. It is not all about sex though. Yes we have issues in that department, sometimes its good and sometimes its not. She is either wants sex all the time or not at all. And for me, I want to have sex with her sometimes, just not too often.


----------



## Starstarfish

> No, my wife did not know the way I thought going in.


Nothing else needs to be said there. You married her knowing full well you had thoughts that this roommate-style marriage might not work. You didn't tell her that's what this marriage was about, and then she got to discover after the fact that you aren't sexually interested in her and that you are HD/LD mismatched. 

You married your wife for certain reasons, and now that she's fulfilled those reasons - helped you to share your life and responsibilities, it's time to get a bit more money from the arrangement, before leaving her for someone else who looks better. 

Justify it how you want. No one is going to tell you want you want to hear, I think, that that stretching out the process so you can get a better financial footing will make it less painful for anyone besides you. 

If you truly cared about your wife, you would stop being selfish, and let her go. Perhaps -she- wants someone who makes -her- happy as well, someone who wants to have sex with her, someone who enjoys her more than her paycheck.


----------



## gbrad

I know whats being said. I have read it multiple times. But what if my wife overall is happy? If she is happy being married to me and glad to have me in her life. If that were the case would it change the perception at all?


----------



## favoritemistake

The problem is your wife isn't happy. She is living an illusion. She doesn't love you because she doesn't KNOW you. You never allowed her the opportunity. That's a really sh*tty thing to do to someone. 

This entire thread has been very painful to read. 

How long have you been married? How old are you? 

Why don't you tell us something loving about your wife.


----------



## gbrad

favoritemistake said:


> The problem is your wife isn't happy. She is living an illusion. She doesn't love you because she doesn't KNOW you. You never allowed her the opportunity. That's a really sh*tty thing to do to someone.
> 
> This entire thread has been very painful to read.
> 
> How long have you been married? How old are you?
> 
> Why don't you tell us something loving about your wife.


I had asked the above question because much of the time my wife does state how happy she is being married to me. There are times when she brings up issues, but she always brings it back to how much she loves me and how happy she is being married to me. 
We have been married almost 7 years and both in our early 30's.

I do love my wife, she is one of the best people I have ever met. She has a big heart and is always trying to do good things for other people. As a result, most people love her.


----------



## favoritemistake

I am going to take a stab in the dark and tell you that your wife knows things aren't good and she also is most likely unhappy but she has her head burried in the sand. She has invested a lot of years with you. She probably tells you that she loves you and is happy with you because she is looking for you to reply in kind. She is starved for your love and validation. 

But you admitted yourself you are passive-aggressive and resentful. So, I am certain you do things daily that hurt her...in a subtle but deliberate way. You do her no favors by hiding your true feelings from her. There is no justification for it. 

Be a man and tell her of your plans. You said she has a big heart and much love from friends/family. Ler her surround herself with those who truly love and cherish her. She will do just fine. Afterall, she is the one who has lived her life with love and integrity.


----------



## gbrad

I have a hard time understanding why this thread is painful to read and why I am painted as such a bad person in this situation. I don't understand that I have done that is so wrong. In this marriage I have done a lot of good things for my wife. I have not spilled out every tiny detail about our marriage, but there is more to it than what is put here. I just don't see how I am the villain here.


----------



## favoritemistake

gbrad...I have a hard time understanding why you can't see how hurtful your actions are. Do you have empathy? Removing your wife from the situation, think about a time when you were truly in love with someone. Has that ever happened, have you ever experienced what you consider to be true love? Now think how you would feel if that person was telling you directly or through ommission that they loved you too. But in reality they did not, they had their reasons to be with you but in reality love wasn't one of them. And you invested enormous amounts of time and energy on them. How would you feel? Wouldn't you feel cheated because you were making decisions based on a lie? Would you feel insulted because that person basically felt that you both got something out of it cause after all you loved them and they graced you with their presence? Would you feel like a fool? 

I am asking you to try your best to put yourself in your wife's shoes. She is living a lie and she doesn't even know it. Think about how you hurt her each and every day. How can you justify that? Really...how can you?


----------



## gbrad

favoritemistake said:


> gbrad...I have a hard time understanding why you can't see how hurtful your actions are. Do you have empathy? Removing your wife from the situation, think about a time when you were truly in love with someone. Has that ever happened, have you ever experienced what you consider to be true love? Now think how you would feel if that person was telling you directly or through ommission that they loved you too. But in reality they did not, they had their reasons to be with you but in reality love wasn't one of them. And you invested enormous amounts of time and energy on them. How would you feel? Wouldn't you feel cheated because you were making decisions based on a lie? Would you feel insulted because that person basically felt that you both got something out of it cause after all you loved them and they graced you with their presence? Would you feel like a fool?
> 
> I am asking you to try your best to put yourself in your wife's shoes. She is living a lie and she doesn't even know it. Think about how you hurt her each and every day. How can you justify that? Really...how can you?


The one time I was in love, she didn't treat me that well and she broke me bad. After that I told myself I would not fall that hard again. That I didn't want my heart to be involved in choosing the relationship, I needed to let my head make the choice and be smart about it. The next long term relationship I was in was with my now wife. I went into it with my head, not my heart. 
If it were turned around in this marriage, I would simply just not want to know. If she acted like she loved me, but had different reasons, as long as did her part and did a good acting job, it wouldn't change how I feel. Even if it eventually ended, i wouldn't want to know the truth. Sometimes the lie is easier to take than the truth. Tell me what will make me happier, even if it's not the whole truth. Especially if the truth wouldn't really make a difference in the end. The truth would just be for my own knowledge, it wouldn't change anything. Why would I need that.


----------



## Starstarfish

You aren't doing your part, you don't have sex with your wife. How is that a good acting job? 

So, it's hard to believe at least some part of her doesn't realize that something isn't right. 

The truth does change something. After the inevitable divorce, it will save your wife the possible pain and guilt that she was in the wrong. The lingering hope she could have made something better, which if you were never attracted to her, and apparently your heart was never in it, that was pretty doomed. 

What exactly are you planning on telling her is the reason for the divorce? The backup "ILYBINILWY" the, "it's not you, it's me."


----------



## moxy

You're making a fool of her. She'll hate you when she finds out you've used her as a stepping stone. Maybe you don't see your cruelty, but your contempt for her is practically neon. 

You want to find a way to show your behavior as benevolent, but it isn't. You're justifying things to yourself this way. You'll know that one day when you see what the truth and your deception will do to her. Or maybe you won't. Your insistence isn't going to make your behavior noble, no matter how much you want it to. 

Are you trying to convince yourself that your behavior is okay? 

Have you come here from some cheater-enabling forum trying to convince people that dishonesty is a good thing? 

Do you really think that pretending everything is okay until all your ducks are in a row is nice? It isn't. 

You've guarded your heart because someone once broke it. Well, unless you let go of your guards in this marriage, stop building the illusion and try to work on the reality, you're not going to find that anything improves. But, hey, maybe you like this martyr thing you've got going; different strokes for different folks is the saying, right? 

It's your life and you can do what you want with it. However, you have the option of trying to make things better instead of just pretending to do so and you seem to be too afraid or too concerned with whether she is hot enough or compliant enough to warrant the effort. 

You're using her; you just don't want to see it. You're letting her believe you love her when you don't; she's wasting her energy on you; she's trying to be happy, trying to be positive, but what she's building her life on is your lies and your illusion -- and you know it, but you don't care how this will end for her, only for you. You're using her because she is convenient and she's got no idea. That's why what you're doing is painful to read about for lots of folks. You're like a con-man, selling her a piece of fruit that's nice on the outside and rotten inside. Can you not see that?

I'm not trying to pick on you or cut you down, just trying to show you what it looks like you're doing from the outside. If you don't give this a real chance, it's just a sham.


----------



## gbrad

Starstarfish said:


> You aren't doing your part, you don't have sex with your wife. How is that a good acting job?
> 
> So, it's hard to believe at least some part of her doesn't realize that something isn't right.
> 
> The truth does change something. After the inevitable divorce, it will save your wife the possible pain and guilt that she was in the wrong. The lingering hope she could have made something better, which if you were never attracted to her, and apparently your heart was never in it, that was pretty doomed.
> 
> What exactly are you planning on telling her is the reason for the divorce? The backup "ILYBINILWY" the, "it's not you, it's me."


It's not that we never have sex. We have been married for 7 years. The first year, we had sex a lot. During periods of time when we were trying to get pregnant, we had sex a lot. During the other years we probably average about twice a month or so. Sometimes only once a month, on occasion a little more. Lately it has not been too often (about a month since our last time, I lose track sometimes), but we go through our ups and downs with that. During that month we have both had times where we wanted to, it just never matched up and didn't happen. 

How will I approach it (divorce) when the time comes? I don't know exactly. I think I will want to bring it up as just a topic of conversation, get the idea out there. I won't just come out and say "I want a divorce".


----------



## gbrad

moxy said:


> You're making a fool of her. She'll hate you when she finds out you've used her as a stepping stone. Maybe you don't see your cruelty, but your contempt for her is practically neon. You want to find a way to show your behavior as benevolent, but it isn't. You'll know that one day when you see what the truth and your deception will do to her. Or maybe you won't. Your insistence isn't going to make your behavior noble.


I have not used her as a stepping stone. We have both been good for each other at times in our lives when we needed each other. I have not discussed everything in our marriage here. For one, I don't want too many details here. But, I have done a lot for her over the years and she recognizes that and tells me that. 
I just think that even though we have been what each other has needed during this period in our lives, that doesn't mean we are what each other needs for the rest of our lives. 
I don't think she will ever hate me, I know I will never hate her. I don't hate anyone. She has been an important piece in my life. I hope she has some place in my life always.


----------



## synthetic

Get off your high horse and stop thinking you're such a wonderful person.

The truth is you're being a total d1ck by planning to betray your marital vows without your wife's knowledge (solely for financial gain too!!!).

You're not smart. Just cowardly selfish.

It'll bite you in the ass later. Mark the words.

Yeah, I know I will most likely get banned for this.


----------



## gbrad

synthetic said:


> Get off your high horse and stop thinking you're such a wonderful person.
> 
> The truth is you're being a total d1ck by planning to betray your marital vows without your wife's knowledge (solely for financial gain too!!!).
> 
> You're not smart. Just cowardly selfish.
> 
> It'll bite you in the ass later. Mark the words.
> 
> Yeah, I know I will most likely get banned for this.


I don't think you should be banned, just a little more considerate. Maybe think about the fact that you don't know every detail of my marriage, only the parts I discuss here. 
I never said I am wonderful, but don't think I am a total **** either. Somewhere in the middle. You don't have to believe that, because again you don't know all the details.


----------



## SkyHigh

Right, so you planned for the divorce two years ago because you're an amazing person.

You make me sick. Grow the stones and do it NOW so you don't shred this person to pieces. 

Coward doesn't BEGIN to describe you.


----------



## gbrad

SkyHigh said:


> Right, so you planned for the divorce two years ago because you're an amazing person.
> 
> You make me sick. Grow the stones and do it NOW so you don't shred this person to pieces.
> 
> Coward doesn't BEGIN to describe you.


I spoke with a couple of my friends about the "planning" aspect and they said it was smart. They told me it was good that I was being careful financially and not making any quick decisions just based on emotion. 
Again, did I say I am an amazing person? No. 
Some of you talk as if I am a monster. Other people have looked at our marriage (people who actually know us) and say that she is lucky to have me, or I am a good man for how I have supported her, some of my friends ask where they can find a man willing to do the things I do. 
I'm no saint, but I'm not evil either. We all have faults.


----------



## SkyHigh

Yes, yes, your friends, who cannot be objective, will definitely tell you you're doing the right thing.

Tell me more.


----------



## ImStillHere

Are these the same friends in the happy, loving and _not-married_ relationship? Are these friends who are in unhappy marriages like yours? Or, are these single friends?


----------



## gbrad

ImStillHere said:


> Are these the same friends in the happy, loving and _not-married_ relationship? Are these friends who are in unhappy marriages like yours? Or, are these single friends?


Happy Marriage friends and happy friends who are in long term relationships. 
Some of these people are my friends, some are her friends. 

I am not trying to make myself look better here, just stating the facts.


----------



## SkyHigh

No, no, he doesn't want to put in the work.

By all means, divorce her, see how much she likes you, then.


----------



## ImStillHere

gbrad said:


> Happy Marriage friends and happy friends who are in long term relationships.
> Some of these people are my friends, some are her friends.
> 
> I am not trying to make myself look better here, just stating the facts.


A little while ago I asked you if you knew any happily married couples. You said you knew of one. And then later revealed that they were, in fact, not married. 

Apparently, you have met some new happily married people???

Anyway, you are not stating facts because you do not know _for a fact_ how your wife would respond to your true feelings. You refuse to tell her. 

So all of the information you're providing here on this forum is conjecture and your perception of reality. 

Of course, without full disclosure, we'll never be able to understand or relate completely to what's happening in your life. It is your choice to provide any information you want. 

However, please don't insult our intelligence by stating the "truth" about your marriage when you refuse to be truthful to your wife. That just makes you a liar.


----------



## gbrad

ImStillHere said:


> A little while ago I asked you if you knew any happily married couples. You said you knew of one. And then later revealed that they were, in fact, not married.
> 
> Apparently, you have met some new happily married people???
> 
> Anyway, you are not stating facts because you do not know _for a fact_ how your wife would respond to your true feelings. You refuse to tell her.
> 
> So all of the information you're providing here on this forum is conjecture and your perception of reality.
> 
> Of course, without full disclosure, we'll never be able to understand or relate completely to what's happening in your life. It is your choice to provide any information you want.
> 
> However, please don't insult our intelligence by stating the "truth" about your marriage when you refuse to be truthful to your wife. That just makes you a liar.


I was just referencing that one couple at the time. Of course I know other happily married couples. I am not trying to insult anyones intelligence here. I am simplying saying that I come on here and talk about issues that I have with my marriage and my wife. Each marriage is a 2 way street. I am made out to be the bad guy here simply because I don't tell my wife the whole truth. I'm sorry, but to me there are more important things than just the truth. 
Truth would not change the facts that have happened. It would not change the fact that I have done everything around the house. It would not change the fact I am home and want to spend more time with her, but she is more dedicated to her work. Eventually it makes it so I don't want to spend time with her because I am bitter, yes that happens. It wouldn't change the fact that I work my ass off to take care of the finances and she just continues to spend however she pleases. It would not change how our everyday living has been over the past years. 
Even when these issues have been discussed, she gets upset and then nothing really changes. She makes excuses and then everything goes back to the way it has been. I am sorry that I want to be with someone who shares common interests with me and views the way we live life everyday in a similar light. Someone who is actually willing to share lives responsibilities with me. I am sorry that I want this and it makes me a horrible person that I want this.


----------



## ImStillHere

gbrad said:


> I was just referencing that one couple at the time. Of course I know other happily married couples. I am not trying to insult anyones intelligence here. I am simplying saying that I come on here and talk about issues that I have with my marriage and my wife. Each marriage is a 2 way street. I am made out to be the bad guy here simply because I don't tell my wife the whole truth. I'm sorry, but to me *there are more important things than just the truth.
> Truth would not change the facts that have happened. * It would not change the fact that I have done everything around the house. It would not change the fact I am home and want to spend more time with her, but she is more dedicated to her work. Eventually it makes it so I don't want to spend time with her because I am bitter, yes that happens. It wouldn't change the fact that I work my ass off to take care of the finances and she just continues to spend however she pleases. It would not change how our everyday living has been over the past years.
> Even when these issues have been discussed, she gets upset and then nothing really changes. She makes excuses and then everything goes back to the way it has been. I am sorry that I want to be with someone who shares common interests with me and views the way we live life everyday in a similar light. Someone who is actually willing to share lives responsibilities with me. I am sorry that I want this and it makes me a horrible person that I want this.


REALLY?!?! 

You come on a forum filled with people who have been denied the truth by passive-aggressive spouses (like yourself) and say something like this?! 

UNBELIEVABLE... 

Keep playing the victim ("I am sorry that I want this and it makes me a horrible person that I want this."). You will get everything you want in the end. 

End of my time on this thread.

ETA: Without truth, you have no integrity. Without integrity, you have no honor.


----------



## gbrad

ImStillHere said:


> REALLY?!?!
> 
> You come on a forum filled with people who have been denied the truth by passive-aggressive spouses (like yourself) and say something like this?!
> 
> UNBELIEVABLE...
> 
> Keep playing the victim ("I am sorry that I want this and it makes me a horrible person that I want this."). You will get everything you want in the end.
> 
> End of my time on this thread.
> 
> ETA: Without truth, you have no integrity. Without integrity, you have no honor.


I love how people on these threads tend to pick out one piece of an entire post and just focus on that. 
All of those other things I said obviously mean nothing to you in your marriage. 
There have been nights I have wanted to cry myself to sleep because of it. Most of the time I chose to have a drink and try and relax instead, but the hurt is still there. 
Because I want to leave and I have kept some things from my wife I am not allowed to be hurt by the things she has done/has not done. 
Atleast I know the people close to me who know my story, the whole story, understand my frustration and sympathize with me.


----------



## ImStillHere

gbrad said:


> I love how people on these threads tend to pick out one piece of an entire post and just focus on that.
> All of those other things I said obviously mean nothing to you in your marriage.
> There have been nights I have wanted to cry myself to sleep because of it. Most of the time I chose to have a drink and try and relax instead, but the hurt is still there.
> Because I want to leave and I have kept some things from my wife I am not allowed to be hurt by the things she has done/has not done.
> Atleast I know the people close to me who know my story, the whole story, understand my frustration and sympathize with me.


(I lied...THIS will be my final post.)

I didn't comment on the other things in that post because you have said them OVER AND OVER. 

We KNOW that you feel victimized by your wife. But you don't want to leave...because you don't yet have the job you want. You don't have the financial status you want. You married your wife out of convenience...blah blah blah. 

So you remain the VICTIM...trapped in a marriage that isn't satisfying you. 

You have made ALL of this clear. 

The TRUTH line, however, was some new information. Just like all of those other happily married couples that you failed to mention previously. That is why I focused on that specific line. Again...please don't insult my intelligence nor my memory.

What's interesting is how YOU have chosen to address one maybe two things on long posts made by others and only talk about what your wife "has done/has not done". 

You DO NOT address any suggestions that have been made about actions YOU can take to improve communication and relations between you and your wife. 

You do not want IC, you do not want MC, you do not want to be honest, you do not want to do anything differently from what you have been doing. But, yet, you want EVERYTHING with HER to change. Definition of insanity, no? 

Why? Because, AGAIN, you want to remain the victim. 

So many others have said these things to you. But you don't want to talk about them. Just like you don't want to talk to your wife. 

PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE...

I'm done.


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> I love how people on these threads tend to pick out one piece of an entire post and just focus on that.


We're like keystone cops on here, and that one piece: you holding out from honest heartfelt communication with the one person you need to be have complete honest heartfelt communication with, is the keystone to all your marriage problems.

I don't think many (well maybe a few) have said you are a bad person at all, but the passive-aggressive way of approaching your marriage is awful, and it is bad that you can't see or recognize that this is the main issue to your dissatisfaction, and it trumps any other issues you would rather focus on. You need to be self-aware and check the passive niceguy behavior (ie you doing all those nice things for her that others can so easily point out in order for your W to do more nice things for you). I don't know how you are going to get that - you already have a bunch of us who have been there and are working on it trying to share our accumulated wisdom and help pull you ahead a little and see why you are unhappy and the things in your power to change it, but you still can not seem to acknowledge any personal accountability to this, thus the only solution you can see in your mind is assigning all the blame onto your W then jettisoning it all and hope to find someone that is somehow more capable of reading your mind. That is a world of hurt for everyone because it is unrealistic.


----------



## Lon

ImStillHere said:


> You do not want IC, you do not want MC, you do not want to be honest, you do not want to do anything differently from what you have been doing. But, yet, you want EVERYTHING with HER to change. Definition of insanity, no?
> 
> Why? Because, AGAIN, you want to remain the victim.


:iagree:


----------



## SkyHigh

If you won't go into IC, then at least go to a psychiatrist so that you can get diagnosed as the immature, whiny narcissist that you are. 

"Wahhh, I'm unhappy".

Guess what, she isn't responsible for your happiness, genius. 

*YOU* are. And because YOU are unhappy, you project yourself as the victim to avoid responsibility. 

See, I know people like you. 

I'm married to one.

Everybody else is responsible. You aren't.


----------



## gbrad

Lon said:


> We're like keystone cops on here, and that one piece: you holding out from honest heartfelt communication with the one person you need to be have complete honest heartfelt communication with, is the keystone to all your marriage problems.
> 
> I don't think many (well maybe a few) have said you are a bad person at all, but the passive-aggressive way of approaching your marriage is awful, and it is bad that you can't see or recognize that this is the main issue to your dissatisfaction, and it trumps any other issues you would rather focus on. You need to be self-aware and check the passive niceguy behavior (ie you doing all those nice things for her that others can so easily point out in order for your W to do more nice things for you). I don't know how you are going to get that - you already have a bunch of us who have been there and are working on it trying to share our accumulated wisdom and help pull you ahead a little and see why you are unhappy and the things in your power to change it, but you still can not seem to acknowledge any personal accountability to this, thus the only solution you can see in your mind is assigning all the blame onto your W then jettisoning it all and hope to find someone that is somehow more capable of reading your mind. That is a world of hurt for everyone because it is unrealistic.


I understand that I have some blame in this. I am not good at giving my wife the things she needs all the time. I have a hard time giving her what she needs when I also do not get what I need. (yes I know vicious little cycle) I keep mentioning the same things, what does and does not get done to help me in everyday living, because those are the most important things in the relationship to me. 
I do keep thinking about the honesty issue that has been stressed here. But for me I keep comparing two options. 
1. honesty that causes pain or
2. being happy when you don't know its a lie.

I don't know why someone would want to know the truth if the truth is painful. If instead you can live a lie that you are happy with. If you don't know it is a lie, then there is nothing to be upset about. Reality is what is actually happening.


----------



## gbrad

SkyHigh said:


> If you won't go into IC, then at least go to a psychiatrist so that you can get diagnosed as the immature, whiny narcissist that you are.
> 
> "Wahhh, I'm unhappy".
> 
> Guess what, she isn't responsible for your happiness, genius.
> 
> *YOU* are. And because YOU are unhappy, you project yourself as the victim to avoid responsibility.
> 
> See, I know people like you.
> 
> I'm married to one.
> 
> Everybody else is responsible. You aren't.


You are just rude. You are right, I am not a victim. My wife has done nothing wrong in this marriage. 

*And the only reason I am not interested in IC or MC is because it costs money.


----------



## Lon

For me and many others who have actually lived the lie, the truth is never painful its the lies underneath causing all the damage that hurts, whether or not they get revealed.

Who is happy in this lie right now? You seem to think your W is, I bet she isn't but she has the attitude that happiness is a choice and this is all you let yourself see, its an illusion not reality.


----------



## gbrad

Lon said:


> For me and many others who have actually lived the lie, the truth is never painful its the lies underneath causing all the damage that hurts, whether or not they get revealed.
> 
> Who is happy in this lie right now? You seem to think your W is, I bet she isn't but she has the attitude that happiness is a choice and this is all you let yourself see, its an illusion not reality.


Looking at our whole marriage I know that my wife has been overall happy. I have had some happy times as well. For her though, she does not hide her emotions and feelings. She does not and can not hide her emotions around me. I know when my wife is not happy, and during those times its my job to help fix it and get things turned around.


----------



## gbrad

I will admit, the reason I found and came to this site 2 years ago was because I wanted to complain about things regarding my wife. I wanted to find people who had similar complaints to know I was not alone in those thoughts. I love my wife, it's just draining.


----------



## anchorwatch

gbrad said:


> See, I believe that people should be able to talk about their relationships with people other than their spouse. People need sounding boards (friends) who can give them feedback and just talk about marriage (kinda what we do here). You wouldn't necessarily have that same conversation with the friend though if the spouse was there.
> I know that some people say that they should be able to tell their spouse anything and everything they say to other people, but do spouses really want to hear everything; for example the wife hearing everything that guys talk about with each other. I don't think they need to know word for word.





anchorwatch said:


> If that's working for you, then carry on. Some feel it's counter productive to keep things from spouses.





gbrad said:


> To me it just depends on the topic. I don't need to know every tiny detail of my wifes day. If there are certain conversations she had that she wants to tell me about, then great I will listen, but I don't need to know them all. I don't know why anyone would need to know everything that someone says and does.
> It is not a matter of hiding anything, just not saying everything. While spouses share a life together, they don't live the exact same life connected at the hip day in and day out.


Now I understand where you're coming from. You want the advantage and you need to affirm it with your constant argument baiting. If that's how you live your life, it's your business. 

You have been given advice from some of the most respected posters on the site. You wont consider their help and make no hint of considering changing your views. So be it. You made you case for your position, leave it be. Don't disrespect them with your constant arguments. These poster have given of their time to walk along a lonely road, with with strangers in crisis, so they won't have to do it alone. Good luck with your plan. Good luck to those you leave in the dark and what you think is more than fair for them.


----------



## gbrad

anchorwatch said:


> Now I understand where you're coming from. You want the advantage. If that's how you live your life, it's your business.
> 
> You have been given advice from some of the most respected posters on the site. You wont consider their help and make no hint of considering changing your views. So be it. You made you case for your position, leave it be. Don't disrespect them with your constant arguments. These poster have given of their time to walk along a lonely road, with with strangers in crisis, so they won't have to do it alone. Good luck with your plan. Good luck to those you leave in the dark and what you think is more than fair for them.


I want what advantage? I don't understand your post.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> The one time I was in love, she didn't treat me that well and she broke me bad. After that I told myself I would not fall that hard again. That I didn't want my heart to be involved in choosing the relationship, I needed to let my head make the choice and be smart about it. The next long term relationship I was in was with my now wife. I went into it with my head, not my heart.
> If it were turned around in this marriage, I would simply just not want to know. If she acted like she loved me, but had different reasons, as long as did her part and did a good acting job, it wouldn't change how I feel. Even if it eventually ended, i wouldn't want to know the truth. Sometimes the lie is easier to take than the truth. Tell me what will make me happier, even if it's not the whole truth. Especially if the truth wouldn't really make a difference in the end. The truth would just be for my own knowledge, it wouldn't change anything. Why would I need that.


The lie is always easier than the truth. That's why people lie. It takes a strong person with moral values to tell the truth; you clearly are not.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

gbrad said:


> I will admit, the reason I found and came to this site 2 years ago was because I wanted to complain about things regarding my wife. I wanted to find people who had similar complaints to know I was not alone in those thoughts. I love my wife, it's just draining.


I think you were alone in your thoughts because everyone here actually loved or loves their spouse. It was not a business decision for us.


----------



## Starstarfish

In most cases when a marriage is a business arrangement (wife is a beard), or not entire based on feelings/desire (like an arranged marriage), both partners were aware up front about what they were signing up for. 

But, to have one partner assume the marriage is one based on feelings and attraction and romantic love, when for the other it was just a calculated business decision about maximum return for the investment. 

As for the advantage, you have convinced yourself that your wife is happy, and therefore, you keeping up the charade is alright. Because, Lord forbid, she find out the truth and kick you to the curb and end your perfect breakup scenario and make you pay your own bills.


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> Looking at our whole marriage I know that my wife has been overall happy. I have had some happy times as well. For her though, she does not hide her emotions and feelings. She does not and can not hide her emotions around me. I know when my wife is not happy, and during those times its my job to help fix it and get things turned around.



You do not own her happiness, you don't take the blame nor do you get the credit. It has never been and never will be your responsibility to make her happy. Your only responsibility is to be honest and support her in her own quest to find happiness, and in some ways you surely have, but in the most primary way you have actually been the largest barrier all along. It is not your fault even if she were overall unhappy, but it is on you to realize if you are helping her along or standing in the way and take the appropriate action. If her quest for happiness includes a relationship with someone who finds her desirable, the appropriate thing for you is to desire her or get out of her way.

Likewise your own happiness is all yours, you can not blame your W for any of your misery, and if you feel she is in your way your job is to communicate it.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> The lie is always easier than the truth. That's why people lie. It takes a strong person with moral values to tell the truth; you clearly are not.


I wasn't talking about just what I would give, I would not want to hear the lie if the lie made me unhappy. The lie may be easier, but it can also be happier.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> I think you were alone in your thoughts because everyone here actually loved or loves their spouse. It was not a business decision for us.


Because nobody has ever wanted to complain about their spouse? Really?


----------



## gbrad

Starstarfish said:


> In most cases when a marriage is a business arrangement (wife is a beard), or not entire based on feelings/desire (like an arranged marriage), both partners were aware up front about what they were signing up for.
> 
> But, to have one partner assume the marriage is one based on feelings and attraction and romantic love, when for the other it was just a calculated business decision about maximum return for the investment.
> 
> As for the advantage, you have convinced yourself that your wife is happy, and therefore, you keeping up the charade is alright. Because, Lord forbid, she find out the truth and kick you to the curb and end your perfect breakup scenario and make you pay your own bills.


1. While finances were involved, it was not the only aspect of the decision. 
2. I have convinced myself that my wife is happy, because for the most part she is. She is not always happy, but overall, yes, she is happy. I guarantee if I had a conversation with her about our marriage and our life, she would say she is happy with it. There are things she would want to be better, but overall happy, I know my wife well enough to know that. 
3. Kick my ass to the curb, ha, that would not happen. 
4. The plan is that we would sell the house and both of us split the gains and share it for moving on to our new home.
3. I pay the bills, she doesn't even know what half the bills cost us. She doesn't even know how to access our accountants. Not because I made that happen, but because she gets to stressed out when even talking about them, she doesn't want to know.


----------



## gbrad

Lon said:


> You do not own her happiness, you don't take the blame nor do you get the credit. It has never been and never will be your responsibility to make her happy. Your only responsibility is to be honest and support her in her own quest to find happiness, and in some ways you surely have, but in the most primary way you have actually been the largest barrier all along. It is not your fault even if she were overall unhappy, but it is on you to realize if you are helping her along or standing in the way and take the appropriate action. If her quest for happiness includes a relationship with someone who finds her desirable, the appropriate thing for you is to desire her or get out of her way.
> 
> Likewise your own happiness is all yours, you can not blame your W for any of your misery, and if you feel she is in your way your job is to communicate it.


I know I do not own her happiness. But if she is unhappy, I have to try and fix it. I can't just stand by and let her be unhappy. That is for sure no fun. Living with her when she is unhappy is not enjoyable. When she is unhappy I have to say or do things to try and get her out of it. 
As for my happiness, I understand I am responsible for it. But at the same time there are things that if she did them, it would go a long way to helping to make me happy. She just has no interest in doing those things. She has said it flat out. We have had those discussions.


----------



## GetTough

gbrad said:


> I know I do not own her happiness. But if she is unhappy, I have to try and fix it. I can't just stand by and let her be unhappy. That is for sure no fun. Living with her when she is unhappy is not enjoyable. When she is unhappy I have to say or do things to try and get her out of it.
> As for my happiness, I understand I am responsible for it. But at the same time there are things that if she did them, it would go a long way to helping to make me happy. She just has no interest in doing those things. She has said it flat out. We have had those discussions.


The problem is, as I see it, is that you are not escalating on your core needs. If you do this early enough and strong enough it is fairer to her, and it gives your marriage a hugely improved chance of success. If you tell her what you need, (and significantly that without those needs being met your marriage will likely not survive), you both get a chance at real happiness and she gets a fair chance to improve things. As it stands, you are allowing her denial of your needs to kill your marriage. It is not sufficient to simply state your needs, or argue for them repeatedly without escalation to back them up. You are failing in your duty to protect your marriage by not being open about the depth of your unhappiness with her and essentially standing up for yourself. You view the finances as more important. They are not. Miracles might happen if you found the strength to open up to her. It would not be easy, you would have to divorce the old marriage no matter what, but the new one could amaze you.


----------



## Lon

gbrad, nope, you don't have to fix it. That right there is a niceguy trait, thinking you will fix it and she will love you in return. it doesn't work that way (no matter how much you want it to). If it is no fun living with someone who is unhappy then soon enough you have to decide to live life unfun or to leave the relationship so you can live the life you want.

I learned this hard way, and you and your W may only learn it the hard way too, unless you start communicating.

And if you really have had those discussions, and it is clear that she won't change to please you, then like I said before if you stay it means you are forfeiting your right to complain about it.


----------



## gbrad

GetTough said:


> The problem is, as I see it, is that you are not escalating on your core needs. If you do this early enough and strong enough it is fairer to her, and it gives your marriage a hugely improved chance of success. If you tell her what you need, (and significantly that without those needs being met your marriage will likely not survive), you both get a chance at real happiness and she gets a fair chance to improve things. As it stands, you are allowing her denial of your needs to kill your marriage. It is not sufficient to simply state your needs, or argue for them repeatedly without escalation to back them up. You are failing in your duty to protect your marriage by not being open about the depth of your unhappiness with her and essentially standing up for yourself. You view the finances as more important. They are not. Miracles might happen if you found the strength to open up to her. It would not be easy, you would have to divorce the old marriage no matter what, but the new one could amaze you.


I have voiced the concerns to her. I don't think someone should have to say, "this has to be done or there will be a divorce." That doesn't sound right to me, then they are doing it under full duress. The concerns have been voiced multiple times. She care about the things I do as much, she doesn't put effort in to it. I can't just change who she is. I had hoped she would mature in regards to these things over the years, but it hasn't happened. Early in our marriage she would say "I hate being a grown up." She just hasn't seemed to grow out of that faze, except for the work part.


----------



## gbrad

Lon said:


> gbrad, nope, you don't have to fix it. That right there is a niceguy trait, thinking you will fix it and she will love you in return. it doesn't work that way (no matter how much you want it to). If it is no fun living with someone who is unhappy then soon enough you have to decide to live life unfun or to leave the relationship so you can live the life you want.
> 
> I learned this hard way, and you and your W may only learn it the hard way too, unless you start communicating.
> 
> And if you really have had those discussions, and it is clear that she won't change to please you, then like I said before if you stay it means you are forfeiting your right to complain about it.


I don't try and fix it so that she will love me in return. I know she loves me. I try and fix it so she will be easier to live with. Nobody wants to live with someone who is unhappy, stressed, or just crying (we have had periods of time where that was the case). 
As for your last paragraph; I understand it. Which is why I started this thread. The marriage is stressful, I have come to the conclusion that she wont change, and eventually I will need to leave. I have wanted to avoid this, hoped I could avoid this, wanted things to change, but they haven't. Am I ready to leave now, no. There are so many things involved in the decision and I want to make it at the right time. For me, I am too busy right now to make a change like that and financially not there yet. For her, she needs my support too much right now to walk away from her or add any extra stress to her. If I did that to her now, she would break, and I don't want that. I want us to both be in a position of strength when that time comes. 
Yes, that means putting on a face and trying to make the best of it right now. It's just not easy. But, once again, it is a Friday night and I will be home alone for most of it, because she is working late. Nothing new there.


----------



## GetTough

gbrad said:


> 7I don't think someone should have to say, "this has to be done or there will be a divorce." That doesn't sound right to me, then they are doing it under full duress. The concerns have been voiced multiple times.


I hear you, and I bet a lot of people have that exact same issue. In an ideal world no-one would have to say to their spouse, do this or I'm out. But it's not about changing her. That's not the point. It's about stating your needs with an honest expression of how critical they are to you. It's quite fair and reasonable to say, this is what I need and I cannot live in a marriage without this. If that's how you feel, I believe you should express that. To not do so, is to simply let your marriage die without trying. Whether she wants to change is up to her. At least that way she has a choice. The way things are going she will be left with no choice and likely a broken heart.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

gbrad,
Is she helping pay for your degree?


----------



## gbrad

Rosemary's Granddaughter said:


> gbrad,
> Is she helping pay for your degree?[/QUOT
> 
> They are all on loans. Nothing paid upfront. Why does that matter?


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

gbrad said:


> Rosemary's Granddaughter said:
> 
> 
> 
> gbrad,
> Is she helping pay for your degree?[/QUOT
> 
> They are all on loans. Nothing paid upfront. Why does that matter?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to understand why you cannot support yourself at this point.
> 
> It does sound like you have used your wife for your own selfish reasons. I realize that those of us reading along don't have all of the information, but combined with your other post on the "didn't marry for love" thread, it surely seems this way. You project that you'd be thrilled to be married to someone who acts madly in love with you, even though it's all an act. IMO, you are trying to justify marrying your wife while knowing you did not love her.
> 
> Plainly, it sounds to me like you had ulterior motives for marrying your wife, that you did not love her and knew you never would, but saw her as a stepping stone in life. Really, none of your excuses for continuing to stay in the marriage make any logical sense. It does not make sense to make a person believe that you are madly in love with her, when you are not. The only context in which that makes sense is within a context of *underhanded motives*.
> 
> One day, that conversation with her friend about what a great marriage you and your wife "have" is going to haunt your wife, because she will know it was all fake. There is NO way that she is going to think, "Oh, but I was so happy at that time"---- no way. The lying/faking will negate everything you ever said or did for her.
> 
> But, I suspect that you will never tell her the truth. You'll fake it all the way through the divorce, then continue with your act, only this time as "friends".
Click to expand...


----------



## moxy

Do you feel like your wife doesn't make much of an effort to build your relationship? 

If she put more of an effort into it, would you feel less hopeless about where your marriage was heading? 

What are some things she could do that would make you more invested in the longevity of your marriage? 

How have you addressed the things you felt were lacking in your relationship; does she truly understand that she isn't giving you what you need or are you just sabotaging yourself?

Something you said in your post (#156) on this page makes me think that you are still attached to your wife, still wish things could get better, but don't have hope that they will and have resigned yourself to eventual marriage failure because you don't see a way to bring about positive change. Is that an accurate assessment or am I reading too much into that post? You have insisted that you don't have exploitative or ulterior motives, so I'm trying to look at your situation from a different angle.


----------



## gbrad

Rosemary's Granddaughter said:


> gbrad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to understand why you cannot support yourself at this point.
> 
> It does sound like you have used your wife for your own selfish reasons. I realize that those of us reading along don't have all of the information, but combined with your other post on the "didn't marry for love" thread, it surely seems this way. You project that you'd be thrilled to be married to someone who acts madly in love with you, even though it's all an act. IMO, you are trying to justify marrying your wife while knowing you did not love her.
> 
> Plainly, it sounds to me like you had ulterior motives for marrying your wife, that you did not love her and knew you never would, but saw her as a stepping stone in life. Really, none of your excuses for continuing to stay in the marriage make any logical sense. It does not make sense to make a person believe that you are madly in love with her, when you are not. The only context in which that makes sense is within a context of *underhanded motives*.
> 
> One day, that conversation with her friend about what a great marriage you and your wife "have" is going to haunt your wife, because she will know it was all fake. There is NO way that she is going to think, "Oh, but I was so happy at that time"---- no way. The lying/faking will negate everything you ever said or did for her.
> 
> But, I suspect that you will never tell her the truth. You'll fake it all the way through the divorce, then continue with your act, only this time as "friends".
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I will have to fake it all the way through the divorce. If the lie would keep her happier than the truth then it's worth it to me.
> You bolded "underhanded motives." To me, I just had different motives. I wanted the marriage for different reasons. Part was financial, part was the preference to be with somebody. I have no desire to live alone. She had no desire to live with me unmarried. To me, that meant marriage. That was the route I chose. Did I have other options, yes, but I analyzed the situation and decided it was the best option that I had. I have tried to be the best husband that I can be to her. I try to give her what she needs. Just like everyone else, I am not perfect and I make mistakes in regards to what she needs and wants, but I try and do my best. I expect the same effort from her, but I feel as if I give more than she does in this regard.
> As for the reasons for staying in the marriage- financially it is necessary at this time as I have stated ( I don't feel I need to document all of my finances here), I don't really want to be completely alone at this time, and I am positive this would not be a good time for her either. Right now, she needs me just as much as I need her.
Click to expand...


----------



## gbrad

moxy said:


> Do you feel like your wife doesn't make much of an effort to build your relationship?
> 
> *At times she does, but she puts a lot more effort into her job than into the marriage, always has since the beginning.*
> If she put more of an effort into it, would you feel less hopeless about where your marriage was heading?
> *Less hopeless yes, but I have tried to get it to improve and it has only gotten worse over the years*
> What are some things she could do that would make you more invested in the longevity of your marriage?
> *help more around the house would be big, not be a workaholic, and make an effort to get into better shape. She says she wants to(has said that for a long time), but never really makes the effort.*
> How have you addressed the things you felt were lacking in your relationship; does she truly understand that she isn't giving you what you need or are you just sabotaging yourself?
> *We have had the same conversations over and over it seems. She knows what it is I want and need from her. She knows, she has stated that she knows, but it still doesn't change. There are slight improvements over small periods of time and then it goes right back to where it was if not worse.*
> Something you said in your post (#156) on this page makes me think that you are still attached to your wife, still wish things could get better, but don't have hope that they will and have resigned yourself to eventual marriage failure because you don't see a way to bring about positive change. Is that an accurate assessment or am I reading too much into that post? You have insisted that you don't have exploitative or ulterior motives, so I'm trying to look at your situation from a different angle.


I really do love my wife, I care about her greatly, I was bragging about her about something at work today. I think she is an amazing person, I just don't think she is a great wife. I loved being her friend before we got married. I think she makes an outstanding friend. And maybe for the right guy, the way she is now she would make a great wife, but for what I want and need, it's just not enough.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

You are incredible. The only reason you're still with her is because you need her financially. She is in the dark and believes you actually love her. Have fun faking it until you drain her of all her resources. You're like a leach, draining the blood of your victim.


----------



## gbrad

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> You are incredible. The only reason you're still with her is because you need her financially. She is in the dark and believes you actually love her. Have fun faking it until you drain her of all her resources. You're like a leach, draining the blood of your victim.


Because a leach cares about the person they are sucking on. Does a leach try and make that person happy? Does a leach support them through emotional times? Does a leach try and make things better? 
No, a leach doesn't do any of those things and yet I am. 
Drain her of all her resources? You have no idea what our marriage is like or has been like financially to make a comment like that. I assure, it is far from the truth. (though I doubt you will believe, and thats fine)


----------



## moxy

Ok, so according to what you listed that would make your marriage better, housework, quality time, and her level of attractiveness are the biggest issues for you, it seems. Would that be accurate? If she was less fat, spent more time with you, and didn't put the burden of all the housework on you, your marriage would improve?

If those things changed, could you love her in a real way rather than in this sort of frugal and means-to-an-end way that you've discussed here? Do you think you could love her passionately if these "love busters" were not getting in the way? Or, do you think it is fundamentally impossible for you to love her romantically instead of passionately? 

You don't see your actions as fraudulent, but many here do; how would your wife feel, if she knew these things? Apart from "protecting her" from the lie and protecting yourself from her rejection, can you try to empathize a little with the predicament of one you care about? Just to see what's really at stake, I mean, from eyes that aren't yours. If not, then so be it, but what if you just tried to see it that way for a moment? I think you're very guarded, even from your own emotional expression. 

Do you want to love her more? Do you want to have more than this kind of relationship with her (even if you don't think it is possible, even want it just a little bit)? In a way, seeing her flaws makes it easier not to love her fully; if you see her as unworthy and deficient in some aspects, you don't have to give her your heart, just your presence. Does that ring true for you at all?

I think you should hire someone to do the housework; it would improve things for you both, life-wise, given your strong feelings about it -- and maybe it would help her see her own deficiencies, if she truly is a slob, by comparison.

I think you should arrange a date night once a week in which you guys have a chance to spend quality time together (insist on it, let her know that this will be good for you two and will give her more energy for her work, as well). Choose activities that delight you or her or make your talents shine. Then, you'll have a standing date rather than be stuck at home waiting for her and breeding resentment. Whatever the date, try to be fully present for just one evening each week with each other.

I think you should insist on gym time together one day a week; her body awareness will grow and you'll both feel more vitality and energy, so you don't even have to confront the "honey you're too fat to get my motor running" kind of talk. Just insist on it -- an hour, once a week, at the gym.

I bet that if you try those three simple things for just six weeks, you'll see improvement in your marriage and your mood in general. It's a short time period, but enough to give you a taste of change so that you can see how your POV alters.

I have to ask this, though -- you've brought up your "work wife" in other posts. Is it possible that you have feelings for this person? Do you share intimate details with this person? Do you fantasize about this person? What would happen if you changed how you thought about this person, made things purely professional, just for six weeks and consciously avoided emotional bonding with her for six weeks while you do the other stuff? If nothing else, it will be like an experiment to see if the fate of your marriage is really and truly failure or if maybe whatever made you want to be with your wife might also make you want to love her more. If nothing else, setting other women entirely aside for a short while will show you if it is simply that you find your wife repulsive or simply that you're stretched too thin without even realizing it.

Have you seen the movie "The Mirror Has Two Faces"? It's a little cheesy, but it deals with some of these same concerns that you've raised and I wonder what you'd think of how they played out. Will you consider watching it, maybe even with your wife, and seeing how these things are depicted for others? I just wonder if you are sabotaging your own chances at happiness and your wife's when it needn't be the case....


----------



## Couleur

gbrad -- I saw that you've started a thread on the parenting board about not having children and its impact on a marriage.

All I can say is *please* do not have children with your wife if you are even considering a divorce. Right now, your wife would probably be hurt by your leaving, but would also let you go. It's much harder to just let someone go when kids are involved.


----------



## gbrad

Couleur said:


> gbrad -- I saw that you've started a thread on the parenting board about not having children and its impact on a marriage.
> 
> All I can say is *please* do not have children with your wife if you are even considering a divorce. Right now, your wife would probably be hurt by your leaving, but would also let you go. It's much harder to just let someone go when kids are involved.


I don't plan on having children with her at this point. I don't think it can happen so I am not worried. Sad about that, but not worried about it. 



Satchel Rage said:


> So is any of your wife's finances going to help pay for your student loan?
> 
> When do you plan on telling your wife that you want to divorce and never felt any sexual attraction to her?
> 
> Why do you fear living alone?


Well, our finances and the money we make goes into a joint account to pay all of our bills. 
I don't plan on ever telling her that I wasn't sexually attracted to her. I don't think she ever needs to hear that. If we get divorced that will be enough to have to deal with. 

I have never liked being alone, I have never lived alone, and I have no desire to do so. I like some alone time, but I prefer being around others.


----------



## gbrad

Moxy, I will respond to your last post, it is just a lot to take in.

Wife came home halfway through the response and had to close it out. Might try again later.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

gbrad said:


> Of course I will have to fake it all the way through the divorce. If the lie would keep her happier than the truth then it's worth it to me.
> You bolded "underhanded motives." To me, I just had different motives. I wanted the marriage for different reasons. Part was financial, part was the preference to be with somebody. I have no desire to live alone. She had no desire to live with me unmarried. To me, that meant marriage. That was the route I chose. Did I have other options, yes, but I analyzed the situation and decided it was the best option that I had. I have tried to be the best husband that I can be to her. I try to give her what she needs. Just like everyone else, I am not perfect and I make mistakes in regards to what she needs and wants, but I try and do my best. I expect the same effort from her, but I feel as if I give more than she does in this regard.
> As for the reasons for staying in the marriage- financially it is necessary at this time as I have stated ( I don't feel I need to document all of my finances here), I don't really want to be completely alone at this time, and I am positive this would not be a good time for her either. Right now, she needs me just as much as I need her.


gbrad,
The bottom line is that your wife did not agree to marry someone who is not in love with her, not sexually attracted to her, and/or turned off by her weight. How do I know this, without knowing her personally? Because you are currently lying to her. If she had agreed to these terms before marrying you, you would not need to keep it all from her. 

This is why I suspect you had underhanded motives for marrying her--and why you remain in the marriage, even though your tolerance is waning.


----------



## gbrad

Rosemary's Granddaughter said:


> gbrad,
> The bottom line is that your wife did not agree to marry someone who is not in love with her, not sexually attracted to her, and/or turned off by her weight. How do I know this, without knowing her personally? Because you are currently lying to her. If she had agreed to these terms before marrying you, you would not need to keep it all from her.
> 
> This is why I suspect you had underhanded motives for marrying her--and why you remain in the marriage, even though your tolerance is waning.


That may be true, I believe actions are more important than motives.


----------



## moxy

gbrad said:


> That may be true, I believe actions are more important than motives.


Well...that's only true if the recipient of those actions has no other choice but to passively accept life. I think that an empty gesture can hurt as much or more as a deliberately nasty one. A lie by omission is still a lie, right? Most of all, this matters in your case because if you never loved her romantically and she married you because she thought you did, you're just giving her empty gestures and depriving her of an opportunity to have something real. It's like the emperor's new clothes in that story...

Pity sex vs real sex. Putting up with someone vs choosing to be friends. Love as an obligation vs love as a choice. Killing in self-defense vs murder. The action is the same, but the motives change it. We are creatures that make meaning out of our lives, not just connect the dots in life, which is why I think that motive matters a lot.

Do you think she is so unattractive and un-appealing that no one else would want her in a real way? Do you think you're doing her a favor by being with her? Do you really think the fantasy of being with a hotter woman won't come with real life problems, too? 

I'm not trying to bash you, but you're just unwilling to look at this problem from any other angle and I don't think it will get better until you at least see it from a perspective that isn't do fixed, so dependent on your plans that it exists without needing to. 

Did you try watching the movie I suggested?


----------



## gbrad

I get your point Moxy, but to me its not that cut and dry when it comes to motives. 
I do think someone else could find her attractive, she keeps her self well put together, just not the body type I am attracted to at all. Am I doing her any favors, maybe. After the fight we had last night, its hard to gauge. I know she loves me, but we both have needs not being met. 
I know the fantasy of being with someone hotter could come with its own problems. But, atleast I would be attracted to the person I would be with. Every relationship has potential for problems, but some are much better than others. Not all relationships have to be so hard to make work. 
No I have not seen the movie you mentioned. 
As for some of the other things, its complicated and hard to figure out. I don't know for sure all of the answers, I can just go off of what I feel. I know I got into this relationship for practical reasons. And now I want something that is more than just for practicality. At the same time, knowing what I know now, I would not have done it different. I still would have married her because I believe it was the best thing for her and the best thing for me at the time.


----------



## Starstarfish

I think you need to take the "it's the best thing for her" thing out of the equation, I think as along as you convince yourself you are her knight-errant saving her from some unknown doom, you will continue to convince yourself that the "ends justify the means."

Also, why is being with someone hotter that important if on another thread you said:



> I think I would be perfectly happy with sex once a week regardless of who it was with.


As long as it doesn't matter to you who you have the sex with, why not try it with the wife you currently have?

Also, movies might convince you that there are perfect, stress-free, no trouble relationships out there, but, I'm sure almost every person who reads TAM will tell you that's a total fantasy. As for things being easier, they could have been from the beginning, if you had been honest to her and honest to yourself. 

But really, you still don't want to be either, and until that happens, I really don't think there is a solution.


----------



## gbrad

Starstarfish said:


> I think you need to take the "it's the best thing for her" thing out of the equation, I think as along as you convince yourself you are her knight-errant saving her from some unknown doom, you will continue to convince yourself that the "means justify the ends."
> 
> Also, why is being with someone hotter that important if on another thread you said:
> 
> 
> 
> As long as it doesn't matter to you who you have the sex with, why not try it with the wife you currently have?
> 
> Also, movies might convince you that there are perfect, stress-free, no trouble relationships out there, but, I'm sure almost every person who reads TAM will tell you that's a total fantasy. As for things being easier, they could have been from the beginning, if you had been honest to her and honest to yourself.
> 
> But really, you still don't want to be either, and until that happens, I really don't think there is a solution.


I have always agreed with the phrase "the ends justify the means." Now I know it is not true ALWAYS but much of the time. 
It's not about movies showing me that a better stress free relationship is out there, but actually relationships that I have seen and continue to see up close. I know it is possible, I watch it happen, and I will say, I am quite envious of them. 
The sex comment- If I was with someone hot, the sex once a week would be enough to satisfy me. That is why I made that comment. Yah, I could have sex more often with my wife, but I don't know what difference that would make.


----------



## StillRemains

Go ahead and tell her you want a divorce. She is MUCH better off without you. She will be sad at first, of course, but she will shortly figure this out and go on to find a man that actually appreciates her. I doubt you will ever be happy with anyone, regardless of whether that person is attractive to you. The true issue is inside of you, but you will likely never see that. 

Tell her now. Stop wasting anymore of this woman's life. And tell her to come here once you've left her so we can all reassure her that she is better off without you! You obviously feel you deserve much better so get on out there and find it. Some "hot" woman with the body type to which you are attracted is surely just waiting for some great guy like you (I assume you are highly attractive in your mind) to sweep them off their feet so get on with it already. If it sounds cruel it's because you are actually being quite cruel to her by deceiving her and letting her feel like she's in a stable marriage. That deception will hurt far more one day than finding out you're not attracted to her. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume she already knows that much anyway.


----------



## gbrad

StillRemains- that post was patronizing at its best.


----------



## gbrad

Just when I am starting to feel a little better about things with my wife, she takes on another responsibility and wont be home until very late tonight. Dinner alone once again. Looks like I can have drink number 2 on the night.


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> Just when I am starting to feel a little better about things with my wife, she takes on another responsibility and wont be home until very late tonight. Dinner alone once again. Looks like I can have drink number 2 on the night.


Sorry man, I hope you didn't go to too much effort making a nice meal - that was one of my pet peeves: not just that I married a woman who didn't cook, but that she didn't respect the meals I made, nothing worse than looking at the beautiful meal you made go cold as she walks out dressed up to go out drinking with her girlfriends. Oh well, at least you will have a good meal of leftovers tomorrow! I assume of course you didn't tell her that it is really hurtful when she plans things without you and misses meals together?

Why does it make a difference if she's home or not that if you wanted drink #2 you couldn't have a drink #2?


----------



## gbrad

Lon said:


> Sorry man, I hope you didn't go to too much effort making a nice meal - that was one of my pet peeves: not just that I married a woman who didn't cook, but that she didn't respect the meals I made, nothing worse than looking at the beautiful meal you made go cold as she walks out dressed up to go out drinking with her girlfriends. Oh well, at least you will have a good meal of leftovers tomorrow! I assume of course you didn't tell her that it is really hurtful when she plans things without you and misses meals together?
> 
> Why does it make a difference if she's home or not that if you wanted drink #2 you couldn't have a drink #2?


We have had the dinner discussion many times. She knows it irritates me, but doesn't matter. And I wish it was one of those where she came home and then went out. Instead with her, its just that she doesn't come home at all until late. 
If she is home it's not often that I have a second drink. Maybe, but not likely. She doesn't see most of the drinks I have, not that I hide them all, she just isn't here to see many of them.


----------



## gbrad

Date night tonight, as long as the wife actual comes home from work. That is still questionable at this point. I'm not really excited about it, feel as if it either wont happen, or wont go well.


----------

